# UKIWS? (Woodturning Symposium)



## BearTricks (9 Nov 2015)

Saw a couple of videos on YouTube talking about this. 

Essentially it seems as if Mike Waldt and a couple of other wood turners are putting on a symposium in Coventry next June. 

It's at the Hilton Hotel, which seems like an odd choice considering how messy wood turning is. They're being ambitious in wanting to live stream some of the event and to stream in demonstrations from around the world; I think they're pushing the YouTube angle heavily. 

I don't think i have seen anyone talking about this on here. Is anyone planning on attending? 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## themackay (9 Nov 2015)

I have read about it on another forum not sure if I will go though


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## Paul Hannaby (9 Nov 2015)

The format appears to be more like the other trade/enthusiast shows like Yandles, Daventry, Newark etc. rather than like any symposium or seminar and all those always have more demonstrators working concurrently than the ukiws too. Perhaps they are relying on clubs doing some demonstrating too.

I hope it is successful but I expect the organisers will learn a lot from the first one.


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## Robbo3 (9 Nov 2015)

UKIWS didn't register with me although I had been reading about the upcoming woodturning symposium.  Any chance of changing the thread title ?

Woodturning Symposium

A new woodturning symposium is being organised by 3 regular YouTube woodturners ; Mike Waldt, Martin Saban-Smith & Steve Twydell.
Date : 18/19 June 2016
Venue : Hilton Hotel, Coventry
Web : http://www.ukiws.co.uk/

Organisers:
Mike Waldt: http://www.youtube.com/user/TheCymruBoy
Martin Saban-Smith: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpHZv5 ... jXHDBxPLxw
Steve Twydell: http://www.youtube.com/user/stevo15771


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## gregmcateer (10 Nov 2015)

Robbo3":4b47658o said:


> UKIWS didn't register with me although I had been reading about the upcoming woodturning symposium.  Any chance of changing the thread title ?



I've no axe to grind for AWGB or UKIWS, (which reading between the lines seems to be the beginnings of a possibly disgruntled group looking to change the focus / style / management / ... of woodturning in the UK and Ireland, (happy to be corrected on this, of course)).

Notwithstanding that, I'm not sure the thread name should be changed - that is, after all, the name that the UKIWS organisers have chosen. (Though I agree - ain't to catchy, is it?)

As an 'outsider' to the workings of AWGB and beyond, does anyone here have any input as to where things have been, are, should be heading with Turning in the UK?

(Preparing to take cover)


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## Random Orbital Bob (10 Nov 2015)

I hadn't heard of the event either though I think its a pretty bold idea to be fair. I rather suspect Paul's got it right when he says they'll learn a lot from the first one!!! I've delivered a large number of presentations in hotels over my career and just getting the technology to work for a single powerpoint can often be fraught. The idea of managing an event with global AV streaming live without a corporate budget behind it is not for the faint hearted.

They have gonads I'll give them that and I hope it works.


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## Grahamshed (10 Nov 2015)

No need to take cover Greg but I would make a few points before this line of thought expands.

Firstly I need to say that I am a member of AWGB but not part of the management, this is a purely personal viewpoint.

1... I am not aware that the UKIWS is any form of breakaway from the AWGB, as far as I can make out the organisers of the new 'symposium' were only vaguely aware of the AWGB and their 'seminars'

2... Again, as far as I am aware, there is no animosity coming from the AWGB towards them. They wish them well with the event.

3... There may be some confusion being caused by the fact that the planning of the new UKIWS event is coinciding with discussions about the future following the recent AWGB international seminar. but a coincidence ( as far as I am aware ) is exactly what it is.


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## Rhossydd (10 Nov 2015)

Random Orbital Bob":bnzwuk49 said:


> The idea of managing an event with global AV streaming live without a corporate budget behind it is not for the faint hearted


Much will depend on the standards they're aiming for. Delivering broadcast standard video is a major challenge, if they think that the sort Skype/phone quality they produce on their You Tube work is acceptable, the technology is simple and cheap now.

What is more likely to be a problem is the scale of the event on site.
I think most people that have been to a turning demonstration appreciate that more than about ten people round a lathe is impractical. Clubs get round this in small halls by using a couple of people with video cameras and relaying the demonstration to big TVs, this can work well if competently set up and operated.
Once you get to large conference rooms with over a hundred people, you either need a lot more TVs, or more usually big projection screens. Then any lack in the quality in the pictures becomes very apparent. Similarly providing PA in bigger halls is far more problematic than in small spaces. Plus it all takes time to set up, test and make safe
You have to consider health and safety at paid for events. It wouldn't be much fun for them if a fire officer turned up and closed the event down as unsafe because of trailing cables, lack of fire protection near piles of combustible shavings etc. Hopefully Hilton should provide some guidance and help explain how their H&S policies will impact on the event.

Maybe these guys know all this and have the experience to deliver a good event.
At £10/day it seems unfeasibly cheap and I can't see how they can deliver a good event at that price point.


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## Bodrighy (10 Nov 2015)

I too was initially sceptical but as someone pointed out to me, anything that will spread the word about turning to the non turning fraternity is worth supporting. If we all stand on the suiede lines and wait and seee what happens then wood turning in this country will die of old age. We really need to get the craft / art out to the younger generation and at least these guys are doing something. Wonder how many members on here are under 45? 

pete


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## Grahamshed (10 Nov 2015)

Not sure how this, or any other woodturning event is going to do that Pete. By the very nature of things they are only advertised to woodturners. Any non turner finding out about it is just a happy coincidence.


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## Grahamshed (10 Nov 2015)

Which, I guess is why the AWGB has started taking the roadshow to non turning events like the country shows.


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## Bodrighy (10 Nov 2015)

Grahamshed":1staj0qw said:


> Not sure how this, or any other woodturning event is going to do that Pete. By the very nature of things they are only advertised to woodturners. Any non turner finding out about it is just a happy coincidence.


 That is down to the rest of us Graham. If it is onoly advertised on wood turning forums and pages then I agree but I am sure we all have non turning friends out there and it is up to us to promote our craft not just leave it to the few. As it is no longer taught in state schools or colleges (may be a few exceptions) very few people under the age of about 45 have ever tried it. With the huge use of social media nowadays it should be easy to get the word out if we all bothered. i am as guilty as anyone of standing by and doing nothing so I am not pointing the finger at anyone just saying maybe it's time to all pull together. 

pete


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## Rhossydd (10 Nov 2015)

Grahamshed":1zycrts4 said:


> By the very nature of things they are only advertised to woodturners. Any non turner finding out about it is just a happy coincidence.


If you weren't a turner, would such a specialist symposium entice you to spend the money and spend a day attending ? I don't think so.

If people are evangelical about 'spreading the word' and recruiting new participants, demonstrations of the basic skills at more general events like craft and country fairs are more likely to reach a receptive audience.


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## Bodrighy (10 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":16qkwhea said:


> Grahamshed":16qkwhea said:
> 
> 
> > By the very nature of things they are only advertised to woodturners. Any non turner finding out about it is just a happy coincidence.
> ...



I agree up to a point. I do a have a go session at some of the shows I do and don't have time for all the people who want to try it. The cost of a day at the symposium is not a lot and gives people a chance to see turning in practice and possibly have a go themselves. Anything that can promote turning in a positive way has to be good surely? 

Pete


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## Grahamshed (10 Nov 2015)

Woodturning is said to be getting more popular. I have a theory ( but not a very productive one ) that woodturning is being taken up by newly retired people who have always been interested in DIY that has contained a woodworking element. This has largely been brought about by the fact that newly retired people are fitter and better off than they used to be.

It is nice, and good, that some younger people are also involved, and it should be encouraged at every opportunity but the target market should still probably be those in their sixties. There is nothing wrong with that and it is a growing market.


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## Grahamshed (10 Nov 2015)

I live near a small market town called Abingdon ( Pete will be familiar with it ). It has a shopping precinct that contains a 'community shop' that is used for a week at a time by local groups of all types.
Next week it is being used by the Didcot Woodturning Club ( Monday 16th, Thursday 19th, Friday 20th & Saturday 21st to showcase woodturning and our club to the general public so there will be a couple of lathes in use and visible to passers by. It will be interesting to see what happens and who comes in to watch.


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## Bodrighy (10 Nov 2015)

That is the sort of thing we need Graham. As you say. be interesting in the reaction and response from the public. I have done shows at Abingdon and there was certainly interest from people who came. have to remember Iam there to sell things not just talk about wood turning LOL. Saying which I need to be in the workshop, got half a dozen shows bewteen now and Christmas and someone for lessons on Thursday so need to get pro-active . 

pete


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## Rhossydd (10 Nov 2015)

Grahamshed":1kw0jsme said:


> I have a theory ( but not a very productive one ) that woodturning is being taken up by newly retired people who have always been interested in DIY that has contained a woodworking element. This has largely been brought about by the fact that newly retired people are fitter and better off than they used to be.


I'm sure you're correct on this from what I've seen.


> it is a growing market.


That may be less true. Right now a lot of people are retiring with generous pensions, however a vast number of schemes that have provided these good pensions have been closed in recent years. The longer term outlook is less rosy for those in their 40s now, these will also be the people who have never had any craft eduction too.
I find it remarkable that many people in their 30s & 40s now won't attempt the most basic DIY and regard building a flat pack as a major project.


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## MSabanSmith (10 Nov 2015)

Hi Everyone,

Thought I'd drop by and say a quick hello as one of the organisers of UKIWS. Thank you very much to the guys here who are are giving our event a thumbs-up - nice to find more support, and we hope to see you at the event.

This is an interesting thread and not the first one with a dose of scepticism about our event. I would greatly encourage you to take a look at the website and Facebook page to see how things are developing and moving at a lightning speed. The support we've received from the UK, Ireland and all over the world has been immense. Our facebook page is buzzing with close on 500 followers and if you look, you'll be able to keep up with what is going on. We only started organising this less than a month ago, by the way.

I must point out a few things though to clarify some of the comments here. 

Firstly, we are not a splinter group of the AWGB and are not in any way in competition with them. The three of us wanted to put an event on that is different in atmosphere and scale to that presently seen in the UK.

We have two very experienced H&S officers with us who are looking after that aspect of the event. 

Broadcasting demos in and out of the symposium? Yes, why not? We're experimenting with the best way to do this as we have interest in attending the event from all over the world. In our update video, nothing was confirmed on this front, but we will let everyone know if it will be possible.

£10 tickets are an earlybird offer. The actual entry cost is £15.00 for each day and includes all the public demonstrations by the pro's and up-coming demonstrators. We sold out of the Saturday tickets and combined Weekend earlybird tickets within 48 hours when they were released to the mailing list. The tickets go on general sale tomorrow evening (11th November) if you're interested.

The only way that our symposium could be classed as 'specialised' is that it is for turning only. There is no elitism about it, this is a show for all turners to come and meet each other, encourage others and inject some more energy and enthusiasm into a growing pass-time.

We have a legacy funding project in the early stages of development where we will be looking at investing money back into promoting woodturning back into the community and encouraging younger blood to take it up and keep it going. There is a long way to go with it yet, but it will happen.

Anyway, as I said, I thought I'd drop by to say hello. If you have any queries about the event, please do contact me via UKIWS website. I'll be pleased to help. 

Cheers all, hope to see you there,

Martin


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## chipmunk (10 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":7xjjshx7 said:


> The longer term outlook is less rosy for those in their 40s now, these will also be the people who have never had any craft eduction too.
> I find it remarkable that many people in their 30s & 40s now won't attempt the most basic DIY and regard building a flat pack as a major project.



+1 for those observations. The membership of our turning club certainly bears this out.

I also feel that the outlook for the traditional market for our woodturned items is also going the same way. 
Cheap imported goods can always undercut hand-crafted items and our designs (a generalization I admit) are not always what they might be to persuade younger buyers to part with their cash.

Jon


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## Paul Hannaby (10 Nov 2015)

gregmcateer":wk4oc1dx said:


> I've no axe to grind for AWGB or UKIWS, (which reading between the lines seems to be the beginnings of a possibly disgruntled group looking to change the focus / style / management / ... of woodturning in the UK and Ireland, (happy to be corrected on this, of course)).



Hi Greg,
I don't think it's a case of there being some sort of splinter group, just some people who decided to get together and do something of their own backs. 

Speaking as one of the trustees of the AWGB, our aims include promoting and developing knowledge of woodturning and events like this will have some positive outcomes on those fronts so I don't think we are in competition at all. Rather different organisations with some similar goals.


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## Tomsk (10 Nov 2015)

I think it would be good for people to understand how this 'symposium' has come about. Though not a regular poster to UKWORKSHOP I've been around for quite a few years and have enjoyed the forum's knowledge base. Earlier in the year, the YouTube entity that is 'Mike Waldt' announced plans to have a 'meet-up' for his youtube / Facebook followers. It's from this that the idea launched (very quickly indeed!) to create the UKIWS symposium. Mike wont stand up infront of any audience and declare himself to be an 'awesome' turner / teacher / mentor etc. He's a really down to Earth guy that has inspired many others with his passion and dedication to learning and progressing.

There are thousands of turners around the country that would benefit from shared knowledge, just as we do on this and other forums, but would probably shy away from AWGB membership and attendance as it could feel too 'professional'. Many others don't join clubs because they don't feel it's the place for them. I feel that Mike (and the other two organisers) are pitching to organise a get together for the 'common man'.

I would hope that either at this first event, or perhaps future ones, that groups like this forum (and many others) would find a place to represent theirselves, as I hope also that the AWGB would do also.

I have absolutely nothing to do with the 'Symposium', but I certainly look forward to attending and giving it my full support.

Cheers

Tom


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## Paul Hannaby (10 Nov 2015)

I don't think you can say the AWGB is too "professional" because around 99% of the members are amateur hobby turners and it's them who generally run the clubs. Also, I would say the AWGB has more junior members than it does professional turners. That's another area we are trying to support.

Perhaps the images etc. on the website of good quality turnings might convey an impression of professional work but remember, a large percentage of the work shown is produced by amateurs.


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## Tomsk (10 Nov 2015)

Paul Hannaby":2488waa6 said:


> I don't think you can say the AWGB is too "professional" because around 99% of the members are amateur hobby turners and it's them who generally run the clubs. Also, I would say the AWGB has more junior members than it does professional turners. That's another area we are trying to support.
> 
> Perhaps the images etc. on the website of good quality turnings might convey an impression of professional work but remember, a large percentage of the work shown is produced by amateurs.




Paul - it was an impression that I personally gained (I am an AWGB member) and actually I deferred joining until I felt I was 'good enough'. I don't think having something to aspire to is a bad thing, and I like what the AWGB does, but if I felt that way, then I'm sure there will be others.

Anyway, my post wasn't there to knock the AWGB, but in support of UKIWS.

Cheers

Tom


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## beganasatree (10 Nov 2015)

Tom ,I think that you have spoken for myself and meany others.

Peter


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## gregmcateer (10 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":374rbr1s said:


> At £10/day it seems unfeasibly cheap and I can't see how they can deliver a good event at that price point.



Yowser! Is that all they're charging!?!

I hadn't seen anything about the price, but that would be incredibly good value. I might sign up my whole family and treat them to a weekend of shavings and all things tooly.


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## RogerP (10 Nov 2015)

gregmcateer":1ilfmz05 said:


> Rhossydd":1ilfmz05 said:
> 
> 
> > At £10/day it seems unfeasibly cheap and I can't see how they can deliver a good event at that price point.
> ...





> £10 tickets are an earlybird offer. The actual entry cost is £15.00 for each day


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## gregmcateer (10 Nov 2015)

£15 on the day is still pretty good value, assuming they manage to have some good demonstrators involved.


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## gregmcateer (10 Nov 2015)

Paul Hannaby":1icgkrdq said:


> Hi Greg,
> I don't think it's a case of there being some sort of splinter group, just some people who decided to get together and do something of their own backs.
> 
> Speaking as one of the trustees of the AWGB, our aims include promoting and developing knowledge of woodturning and events like this will have some positive outcomes on those fronts so I don't think we are in competition at all. Rather different organisations with some similar goals.



Well that's good news and am happy to stand corrected on my interpretation.

I agree with you that anything that promotes the craft has to be a good thing.


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## gregmcateer (10 Nov 2015)

£15 on the day is still pretty good value, assuming they manage to have some good demonstrators involved.


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## Robbo3 (10 Nov 2015)

For anyone that is interested the idea started as a get together of like minded woodturners from YouTube & Wood Chuckers, a Facebook group.

The original 12 minute Youtube is here - the relevant bit starts at about 8 minutes
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebp9vtklTCU


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## alexxxbaker (11 Nov 2015)

Reading through this topic I think all the people here should get behind this project wholeheartedly. You say you want to encourage people under 45 to take up woodturning - well as someone who is now 45 and took up woodturning last year aged 44 I just about sneak in to that category. 

People in their 40's, 30's and younger who want to take up a new hobby will turn to the internet for hints and advice. I would propose that the likes of Mike and Martin reach more of this target audience through their you tube channels than any other woodturner in the country. I cant speak for their woodturning skills but sometimes that is not the important point. This symposeum (eugh such an american word) is a way of channeling that energy and promoting your hobby which you all want to see.


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## gregmcateer (11 Nov 2015)

Well said Alex.
Assuming I can get clearance from Head Office, I'll be there.
Greg


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## Bodrighy (11 Nov 2015)

Stop and think for a minute. The average age (according to some sources) of club members is aroubnd 65. Wood turning is not taught in many, if any, state schools and whilst the AWGB does it's best to promote and encourage sessions, training etc for youngsters it is run by a handful of volounteers. If this UKIWS effort takes off it will be because people like me and you lot get behind it and support it as much as possible. Forums like this and others are preaching to the converted and there is a dire need to get out there into the world and tell everyone how great wood turning is. Maybe if everyone here spread the word it would help. When i do 'have a go' sessions at shows I am amazed at the fact that people from the age of 50 down have never ever been on a lathe or even seen one. Like many I started off being a bit sceptical of this but have to admit that they have something that perhaps many of us lack, a desire to spread the word and reach out to non turners. 

Pete


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## Turningal (12 Nov 2015)

I've read all the comments on here ..... don't knock it before you try it ... its got to worth a punt at £10, or do all wood turners expect a free ride, I've been to some of these free shows over the years .... maybe that's why they don't exist any more.
Oh and before I get any knockers ..... I've been running a wood turning club for 14 years.


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## Rhossydd (12 Nov 2015)

Turningal":10p5hcpp said:


> or do all wood turners expect a free ride


My scepticism is based on how they can deliver a good event at such a _low_ price.
There's not much fun in attending events that are so crowded that you can't see or hear what going on or don't have the resources to work properly.


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2015)

I personally will do my best to encourage anyone to have a go or partake in any venture that promotes any form of creative wood use, and turning being one that can result in a quicker road to gratification than having to develop the skills of fine cabinet making, it surely lends itself to providing maximum encouragement.
I wish the organisers all the best with their efforts and hope the background work, costs and complications involved do not prove too onerous for the venture to succeed.

Having very naively tried to set in motion a yearly UKW get together with my limited facilities way back in 2007, which was in the first few subsequent years encouragingly taken on board by a few other enthusiastic members who had better suited facilities, it died as a non event for me personally when I started getting challenging communications relating to whether I or other members hosting the events had personal liability insurance, pat certified equipment etc.

On the home front, when one local family that had been pressurising to have their two children 'have a go at turning' arrived and during the briefing about not standing in line with the chucks etc. said they were OK with the risks as long as I was insured the desire to accommodate their children's enthusiasm wilted somewhat. 
As an amateur turner the desire to enter the realms of formal instruction or expose myself to the modern enthusiastic compensation culture leaves me with a rather jaundiced view.

Hence my initial comments about the background costs and challenges in the first paragraph.


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## Rhossydd (12 Nov 2015)

CHJ":2plfa2x6 said:


> Having very naively tried to set in motion a yearly UKW get together ...... it died as a non event for me personally when I started getting challenging communications relating to whether I or other members hosting the events had personal liability insurance, pat certified equipment etc.


I can understand how that would be very frustrating. It's just daft to expect that sort of provision for what is basically a bunch of friends meeting in someone's house. It would be the same as asking the host of a dinner party if they have any food hygiene qualifications.

The event in Coventy will have to be on a different level though. As soon as you charge people to attend an event in a public/commercial space you become subject to all the Health and safety legislation that's required for any other professional event.


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## Mark Hancock (12 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":1lgr3po8 said:


> Turningal":1lgr3po8 said:
> 
> 
> > or do all wood turners expect a free ride
> ...



The web site refers to tickets being limited which I guess is because of the size of the venue


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## clk230 (12 Nov 2015)

I wish them the best of luck in this .
A couple a things that seem a little strange though why call it a 'symposium' and not a show this could to average joe blogs seem a little elitist .
I normally go to the European woodwork show and you always get non woodworkers go , not sure how UKIWS is going to try and encourage this , its not really promoting turning to newbies if your just telling woodturners about it.

From a marketing point of view calling it the European woodturning show maybe better ? Get some pictures of completed work on the website tell potential attendees that completed works will be available to buy , maybe get some non turning activities involved .
If I didn't turn the website wouldn't encourage me to go .

As I say good luck and I'm sure the numbers through the door will be fine just not sure the event will encourage many new turners .


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## Rhossydd (12 Nov 2015)

clk230":j16ag886 said:


> I wish them the best of luck in this .just not sure the event will encourage many new turners .


I don't see that as a problem.
There's nothing wrong with an event by woodturners for woodturners.
Trying to target the event at both the lay public and enthusiastic turners seems to just make the event harder to run and promote.


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## gregmcateer (12 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":3movf59y said:


> clk230":3movf59y said:
> 
> 
> > I wish them the best of luck in this .just not sure the event will encourage many new turners .
> ...



I don't see it as a problem either, but I might have missed something, as I thought it was aimed at increasing the number of people turning.

Anyhoo, I reckon it could be a great weekend and if it leads to more people turning, playing with wood in any form, or stays as a nice way for existing turners to meet and play together, then it'll be a good thing all round.


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## clk230 (12 Nov 2015)

It was this on the website - 'Woodturning, the same as any hobby, pass-time or trade would become nothing when the current community of woodturners move on. So at UKIWS we’d like to do something to encourage new people to get involved.'

Which is why I thought they wanted to encourage new people to the hobby , but I think thats their goal for the future not for this show , so I'll stand corrected.


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## Turningal (12 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":3cwbmpqp said:


> Turningal":3cwbmpqp said:
> 
> 
> > or do all wood turners expect a free ride
> ...



I guess we won't know about any of that 'til it happens, see you next time if it takes off.


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## Rhossydd (13 Nov 2015)

The credibility of the event has raised a notch now.
Axminster T&M have signed up as a sponsor.


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## gregmcateer (13 Nov 2015)

Excellent. Will have to leave the credit card under lock and key to avoid temptation!


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