# Yep... It's another workshop. Guttering



## mindthatwhatouch

So I have finally got started on the workshop. Block built (needs to be non combustable) 7m x just under 5m pitched roof is what I have planning permission for. The long side walls to be built in block with gable end above garage door in timber, gable end garden will also be timber clad stud wall with the cladding extending over the ugly blocks.

In the future may well clad the lot or have it rendered.

I have cleared site and started digging footings but have a couple of decisions to make and would appreciate your advice. learnt alot already from this site but need second opinions on several things.
Yes I know photos are compulsory, I will upload some, don't worry the speed that I work you are not likely to miss anything.

1. Foundations (sketch attached. hopefully) footings and 3 courses of blocks to bring me up to slab level, there is a height difference between mine and neighbours. Structural engineer has advised it is ok to infill with dry fill between two walls but should I line the blocks with some form of damp proofing to keep the worst of the moisture away, ie a basement plastic lining type material?

2. I can of course step down the DPC once I am past the higher part, but is there any problems with keeping the DPC up so high?

3. Slab, I would like to insulate the slab a little (under and around the perimeter) to keep the damp and cold at bay. will 25mm of jablite make much difference? can I use expanded polystyrene below the slab? and what do I do at the garage door end, or just leave the vertical piece of insulation out here and accept the cold bridge?

I shall attempt to attach the sketch, more questions to follow.






Thanks in advance


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## RobinBHM

Hi welcome to the forum, plenty of advise to here for workshop builds  

7m x 5m is certainly a palatial home workshop, at least by my standards!

If you want to render the outside, think carefully about dpc position. Conventionally a bell cast drip bead is positioned at the dpc course and the render finishes at this point. Often the masonry is brick below this. 

If you are doing the work yourself, I would have thought more than 25mm insulation would be worthwhile. Having said that a workshop isnt heated much so maybe the concrte mass will always feel cold even if it insulated and perhaps a timber floor would better. Id be interested to see what others think.


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## mindthatwhatouch

A little more.

Attached sketch of the general layout to try to make things clearer. 

Don't really want to insulate the interior because then I would need to line it with OSB/Ply.
Cladding on gable ends. Is it ok to place Tyvek (or similar, any recommendations?) straight against the blocks or would it need battening out first.
Trying to keep the cold and damp out, my first choice would be to build in timber but needs to be substantially non combustable.

general layout


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## mindthatwhatouch

And finally a couple of pics.
Start of the excavations before the storms turned it into a mud bath.
Oh the joys of digging in October.....


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## Wizard9999

mindthatwhatouch":2npnxwex said:


> Trying to keep the cold and damp out, my first choice would be to build in timber but needs to be substantially non combustable.



Maybe timber is an option. On Steve Maskery's mega build thread (a sticky in General) he has said he is within a metre of the boundary, which I presume is why you need to be "substantially non-combustible", but his workshop is built of timber. A while back there was some discussion about him looking into fire resistant treatment for the cladding, but I don't think that discussion ever ended before the thread moved in a different direction. I know people will say different council building regs depts. look at things differently, but why don't you asking him what he is doing to comply with building regs. Then maybe you can follow suit and stil use timber.

Terry.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Robin: good point about the drip bead. Ta

Terry: I shall find out what advice Steve Maskery has to offer.

The digging continues......
almost half way round.

Tony


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## Alex_E

25mm insulation is nothing In a floor. 100mm is pretty standard in most building work these days?! And that's celotex or similar as well! Also why not do a bulk filled footing saves all the hastle trying to lay that far into the ground! Just stop it one course below ground instead.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Hi Alex.
I appreciate that 100mm or more will go into a domestic build but this is a garage. I have yet to find out what difference a small amount on insulation will make or even if its a good idea to lay it below the slab.
Perimeter insulation will make a difference and it separates the slab from the walls so this will go in, regardless. Celotex, Jablite etc all do products suitable for laying below a slab but it is all geared towards domestic interiors, i.e. foot traffic,

The reason I am not using a trenchfill foundation is twofold.
1. I can't dig a neat trench that depth.
2. the extra cost of the concrete.

On a plus note its all dug out now so hoping to get footings poured next week when I can get a couple of mates round to assist. Done my best to cover the trenches in a (probably futile) attempt to keep some of the water out.

Tony


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## flying haggis

:nopics:


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## mindthatwhatouch

Well it was all dug out, then more rain....
spent today pumping and using aquavac to get water out, then tidied up the loose soft bottom of trench, footings pour tomorrow.
Pics of my own personal somme re enactment site to follow.

Re floor slab. I have decided on polystyrene for the perimeter but still cannot find if its advisable to put it under the slab.
Any ideas people?

Also do I go for mesh in the slab or more concrete, no mesh maybe with fibres???


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## Wizard9999

mindthatwhatouch":3uxz28n5 said:


> Well it was all dug out, then more rain....
> spent today pumping and using aquavac to get water out, then tidied up the loose soft bottom of trench, footings pour tomorrow.
> Pics of my own personal somme re enactment site to follow.
> 
> Re floor slab. I have decided on polystyrene for the perimeter but still cannot find if its advisable to put it under the slab.
> Any ideas people?
> 
> Also do I go for mesh in the slab or more concrete, no mesh maybe with fibres???



Sounds like we may be at a similar stage, I have just finished getting hardcore and sand for blinding between hardcore and DPM in place. I'm no builder or engineer, but I am putting steel in mine because I am building very close to two large oak trees, so I have advised there is likely to be movement in the slab. Hard to answer the question re "more concrete" without knowing how much you already intend to pour. I have been told that 150mm is really a minimum for the slab, but mine will be anywhere between 150 and 300mm as it deepens on the side closer to the trees.

If I understand correctly the insulation can go either below or above the slab, but on top is more common. This is certainly what is shown in the definitive Mike G shed thread that is 'stickied'.

Terry.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Well after a couple of hours hard work the footings are in.
A few pics pre footings going in.

Think I need to tidy the site a bit

The wooden chute was reasonably successful to save some shovelling.

Wizard9999, Appreciate the insulation on top of the slab is more normal but I will be keeping the floor as concrete, certainly for the foreseeable future.

Blocks coming Monday


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## mindthatwhatouch

The Bombsite

Bit of tidying yesterday, pumped out water moved some blocks, rain stopped play.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Right then decision time.
150mm slab with steel mesh reinforcement.
Probably (unless someone advises me different) 50mm of EPS100 below slab, above the DPM. 
Perimeter insulation 25mm.
Unsure how to deal with the DPM at the doorway. 
Three courses of blocks brings me up to slab level.
Planning to have 2 courses of blocks below the doorway opening and run the slab over the top of them.
Do I wrap the the DPM up on the outside of the slab level with the outside of the wall?

Could really do with some advice to see if I am heading in right direction.
Hopefully blocks going in over next couple of days.

edit to add sketch:


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## John15

I can't open the pics

John


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## Hobbyshop

I can't see the earlier images but the layout of the DPM in the last picture looks strange. It appears to be below ground level.
I believe that DPM should normally finish at least 4 inches above grade on the outside walls. 
Is there a reason why you have the top of your slab set at grade level?
Have you seen Mike Garnham's thread on design for a shed/workshop: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/build-a-shed-mike-s-way-t39389.html


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## mindthatwhatouch

Sorry its a bad drawing.
The DPM will continue up the wall and lap in with the DPC.
That drawing was a cross section through the garage door opening.

No idea why people cant see the earlier pics! is there an alternative to imageshack?


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## mindthatwhatouch

John/Hobbyshop.
Hopefully you can see the pics now?????

Hobbyshop. Yes I have seen the excellent.. build a shed Mikes way post.
Just wish I had the option of using timber.

Not a very good couple of days, progress is painfully slow due to the rain...


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## RobinBHM

There isnt any reason why you cant put the insulation below the oversite, extensions can be constructed this way. The issue though is that there is then more thermal mass to be heated, so I dont think it generally done. 

I would think 150mm of oversite concrete would be strong enough, unless your machinery is going to be cast iron Wadkin!


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## John15

Mindthatwatouch,

Many thanks for doing whatever you did with the pics - seeing them loud and clear now.

Good luck with your workshop build. Mine is a much simpler effort - a timber shed structure with a suspended floor. 

John


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## Mannyroad

Hi Mindthatwhatouch,
I'm new to this forum so have just picked up your build thread. Nice workshop size, I'm jealous. The use of Cellotex etc under the concrete floor is standard practice and will be fine for your workshop. The loads from your concrete slab, I recommend 150mm with A142 mesh, will not damage the insulation due to the concrete spreading the load uniformly over the insulation etc. The door dpm arrangement is also fine for your purposes; the only tricky bit you will come across is at the entrance jamb/ blockwork reveal. Here the dpm changes from underslab to having to run up the internal face of the blockeork reveal, which many builders often do badly, judging from my experience over 30 years supervising construction works. There are special units for these situations that companies like Pemanite used to supply, but they aren't cheap or easily obtained so I'd just 'bodge it' like most folk tend to, and it shouldn't really cause you any concerns, for a garage at least.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Many thanks for the information Mannyroad, and welcome to the forum.
Re the insulation, under or over the DPM?
Torn between an EPS100 50mm thick and a kingspan thermafloor TF70 at 25mm thick which has KPA of 140, need to keep the spirally costs down.

Tony


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## Mannyroad

The insulation usually goes above the dpm. I always used to specify Kingspan Thermafloor TF70; it's quality gear. I don't suppose it's much different to other insulation boards of similar composition but I've been out of the game for a few years now and products have moved on. But I'd always lean towards Kingspan personally.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Called in the Cavalry.

Steve Maskery has his 'Ray' here is mine. 

Karl Åne all the way from Norway, there is nothing like a deadline to get me to pull my finger out. Get the concrete floor in before he catches his flight home.






Also Phil and Colin came to lend more much needed hands.









More pics and details to come.


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## mindthatwhatouch

So Monday and Tuesday were spent moving yet more mud, backfilling and flattening and running round with the wacker plate.
Needed a digger on Wednesday to remove the excess soil (where does it all come from?), also called in two extra pairs of hands to help lay hardcore, ballast and sand.

Thursday morning (with Karl feeling a little worse for wear :wink: well he is on holiday!) DPM 50mm EPS round the perimeter, 25mm PIR insulation above the DPM then some A142 mesh with a few bits of rebar tied in strategic positions.
Ready for the concrete pour thursday afternoon, which was late, trouble with the concrete plant. So in the end it was all a bit rushed, not as neat a job as I would of liked but its well vibrated down and if there is the odd void below it should be fine (hopefully)

Quick change, take Karl to the airport!

It was too wet to do much with the concrete in the the evening, so just another pass with the tamping board before floating it off early morning, before going to work!!

The best bit, the site is flat.  

Couple of time lapse videos. look out for the odd strange pose !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMRmaPr ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF8kJJGlUew


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## MickCheese

Looking good. Like the time lapse video. Very entertaining. 

Mick


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## DiscoStu

I feel it needs Benny Hill music over the top! Looks good.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Yes did think about some music, maybe next time.

Video number 2 now with Audio.........


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## mindthatwhatouch

Few more pics of the levelling and preparation for the concrete.









Across the entrance a temporary piece of shuttering, approx 20mm lower than the block wall to give a slight slope at the doorway.





Anyone know how to stop the photos rotating automatically when I post them?


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## Wizard9999

mindthatwhatouch":2ntzj2bf said:


> John/Hobbyshop.
> Hopefully you can see the pics now?????
> 
> Hobbyshop. Yes I have seen the excellent.. build a shed Mikes way post.
> Just wish I had the option of using timber.
> 
> Not a very good couple of days, progress is painfully slow due to the rain...



Steve M has said he now has a way forward with his workshop exterior treatment. He hasn't said but I presume this will still be timber. Maybe it is an option for you as well.

Terry.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks Terry,
Bit late for me, committed to the blockwork, but maybe useful as I will be cladding part of the building.
I shall continue watching Steve's thread with interest.

Tony


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## colinc

Hi,

Just been catching up on recent posts and saw you very interesting project. I built myself a new workshop over the last year and now have a cosy shed.

I faced similar issues about non-combustible materials as I really wanted wood cladding, but in the end I used Cedral fibre cement cladding boards. The final job looks really good and it was very easy to work with if just a bit heavy to fix single handed. The general construction is a steel frame with fibre cement external cladding and a tiled roof on timber rafters supported by steel purlins.

I went a different route to you with the floor and laid the concrete slab with no insulation, but once the building was up I laid another dpc over it then 3"x2" battens over ithat with celotex between and chipboard flooring over. The chipboard is finished with Dulux industrial floor paint.

The building deliberately has a low thermal mass with a reasonable but not ott insulation to the walls and roof and works really well. It stayed pretty cool in the summer with the doors and windows open and I'm now finding that it comes up to a comfortable temperature very quickly and stays comfortable on the current cold and miserable evenings. I do think that the warm floor plays a big part in making it comfortable.

So far it has also stayed feeling very dry, not at all damp inside, although that's subjective of course. My only regret is that I had to stay <30m2 as I could use twice the space.

Please keep updating the build photos as it is very useful for other would-be builders.

Regards,

Colin


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks for the comments Colin,
Appreciate what you are saying about space, I have gone as big as I realistically can and it seems to be shrinking, especially the width as I had to allow for space between my foundations and the neighbours.

Blocks are slowly going in.....





Like your opinion on the returns and the pier on each end. Listed in order of strength and number of blocks required...
option 1: Half block pier on each end.
option 2: Full block pier on each end.
option 3: double thickness wall on each return.

Below ground I doubled the wall thickness on each return to keep it nice and strong, but is it necessary above ground. I may well split the difference and do double blocks up to DPC. My main concern is the South west corner, how strong will this be with a half block pier on each end between the stud wall and the pedestrian door opening?
100mm wide 7.2N blocks.

Sketch attached for your info, opinions please gents, especially if you are a brickie :lol:





Thanks
Tony


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## mindthatwhatouch

Almost up to DPC level, just a few blocks to go in.





Any opinions on the return walls, and piers at the openings as per my above post.

Maybe if I can get a 2 hour pass on Christmas eve, I can get ready for the DPC.

Have a good holidays whatever you are doing.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Quick update, heading in the right direction, albeit slowly.















Umming and ahhing about the roof design, started another thread for that.

http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/...al-and-wood-metal-sheets-or-tiles-t86168.html


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## mindthatwhatouch

Finally finished the block work
 
Work and weather has meant it's taken far longer than anticipated, doesn't it always.


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## monkeybiter

I love doing the blockwork, making something that feels so permanent and personal. Looks like a nice flat job.


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## blackrodd

When blockwork is done properly, it always "looks" good, just like you have done!
Excellent job, Almost a pity to plaster it!
Rodders


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## mindthatwhatouch

First things first, somewhere dry to work.





Half laps cut, and as its recycled sawn wood a quick lick of preservative.





I think I have used enough straps :wink:


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## blackrodd

Nice Tidy job! and a cracking workshop.
You've obviously worked hard on this, but It has turned out really well.
Have you decided on the roof details yet?
Regards Rodders


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks Rodders,
Decided on the Decra/Metrotile Metal type of tile, duopitched roof. More details later.


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## mindthatwhatouch

The wall plate was set on a thin bed of mortar, to fill any gaps and help keep it level. A cutout was left over one of the piers.






A space for this.....





So now all I need to do is get it up there...





Slowly, slowly lift one end place a block under it near the mid point, lift other end and repeat.





then nudge the 100kg into place, 






edit to photos.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Then another layer of 4x2 on top of the wall plate, mainly to allow the rafters to clear the I beam.
Intention is to use the beam as an occasional lifting beam as well as a support for the roof.






Started the beam that will span the gap across the gable end wall.
More timber recycling, this was from an old barn, a little split but nice and solid.






sorry still haven't figured out the rotation on the pictures???


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## monkeybiter

I used a similar rocking method to raise my I beam, using two ladders and a pair of 'steps' that hooked over the rungs.

Looking good, best end of the year to start as well.


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## mindthatwhatouch

second layer wall plate at I beam.





Gable end wall plate





Mortise and tenon for the ridge support.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Even got treated to a Bacon Sarnie this morning by the lovely. 8)

These two 3"x9" will form the structural ridge. No idea what sort of timber it is.





A quick blast with a disc sander to remove the years of dirt, reveals the original sawing marks.





Scarf joints started.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Lots of progress over the last couple of weeks or so.

Second steel beam in place over the front doorway.





Second Mortice and Tenon started for king post type ridge support.





King post progress.









More to follow


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## MickCheese

Getting there and looking very good. 

Mick


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## mindthatwhatouch

Ridge beam raised














One end of the scarf joint


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## mindthatwhatouch

Cut one rafter and use as a template for the length and notch at top where it meets the ridge.





Layed the rafters on the ridge and marked where the wall plate meets it.





Then used Tony and Karls' patented birdsmouth template marker.




Cut and fix remaining rafters, screwed top and bottom and strip of builders band over the top where each pair meet. Why do I never take enough pictures?


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## mindthatwhatouch

Roof half clad with Bitumen fibreboard.





Then covered with a breathable membrane, counterbattens then battened.
Some of the details are different to usual UK practice, but I figured if its good enough for Bergen where it rains 400 days a year its good enough for here.









Janne (Karl's better half getting involved in boarding one gable end)







Did someone say Tea?


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## mindthatwhatouch

Pay attention Janne, very important english topping out ceremony tradition.





"Why have you nailed a stick to the roof?"
"Very important english topping out.... oh never mind"

If ever you come across Norwegians, bear in mind they will work for jelly babies and chocolate!


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## mindthatwhatouch

Scarf joint worked out well enough. Will probably add a peg or two.










Fascias added





Handy scaffolding provided by neighbour for roof access.


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## wallace

Nice work, I wish I incorporated an I beam into my workshop. Just for lifting lumps of machinery when restoring


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thank you Wallace.

Yep that's the plan.

As well as it supporting the roof without relying on my dodgy joinery.


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## Wizard9999

Looking really good Tony and nice WIP - keep it coming!

Terry.


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## mseries

Really liked the details of the roof. I am becoming interested in roofs these days


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## John15

I like the pics you've taken of the roof - the whole thing looks brilliant.

John


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## mindthatwhatouch

Finally the fixings have turned for the roofing tiles.
Stuck a temporary gable end board on one side, starting at the top lay a row of tiles (temporary nails to hold the top edge)





The next row down, lift bottom edge of tile and place under, its a lot easier to do than to explain. tiles are cut at the gable ends with a pair of tin snips.











Once a few rows have gone in fix bottom edge of tiles, I am bowing to some one with much more experience and using Decra fixing screws, for some reason in the UK they recommend nails. The screw goes into the downturned part of the tile, through the tile below and into the batten. A left foot sized weight to hold the edge of each tile as it is fixed.





Just remember not to fix the bottom row as you need to lift it for slipping the next row under.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Did a bit inside when the weather wasn't playing ball.

Insulated and clad one gable end.





And stuck a few collar ties in.


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## mindthatwhatouch

A little more progress.

Few more rows of roof tiles.






Piece of ply in the other gable end.






Some celotex off cuts scrounged from a nearby building site skip. Most sites let you grab this, saves them paying to take it away, it's always worth asking. I find an old serrated kitchen knife works well and virtually no dust when cutting compared to a handsaw.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Tiles completed, just the ridge and barge covers to do.





Gable fascia board will be fixed to last rafter.





Gable end boarded and ready for cladding


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## mindthatwhatouch

The eaves row of tiles has a plastic drip guard under it, this will fall into the gutter. Could not source the proper stuff in the UK but a felt tray with the edge cut off is just about perfect. Little bit of insect mesh under this to stop the creepy crawlies.


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## mindthatwhatouch

A little more progress, the barge covers need bending at the eaves end to close the edge off.
Mark the edge of the board.





Parallel line to the edge of the board and a tab marked.





and then cut





Bit of origami... 





the smaller tab gets bent under last tile.





Waiting for some dry weather for a coat of paint on the boards before fitting.


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## mindthatwhatouch

More progress, why does it seem some things just take forever!





Barge covers done after a coat of paint on the boards.

Plasterboard lining on the ceiling.








Side door and window fitted as well.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Quick question on the internal wall cladding, whilst I am waiting for the tape and jointing to dry.

I have a load of ply for this. Should I leave a gap between the ply and block wall. Also what do I do below DPC level.
Exterior of the block walls will have rainscreen cladding. Just a bit concerned about condensation, particularly below Dpc.


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## blackrodd

Please see the link, you should not be able to see below dpc as the link will show, even though you may have just i skin of blockwork/brickwork
As the sketch shows the polythene membrane, under you're floor slab should be tucked up and join the dpc to maintain the damp isolation you are trying to achieve.
All the outside paths, ground etc will be at least 150mm below dpc level.
You're finish floor, screed etc will be above this., see the sketch.
Regards Rodders

http://www.constructiontermsx.com/damp- ... efinition/


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks Rodders,

This was something that I was concerned about when the slab went in.
The DPM was not large enough to go up the wall sides to meet the DPC (and practically it would have been difficult to manage it) as due to the slope the DPC is two blocks above ground level, I have coated the interior of the block work below DPC with Aquaprufe. Maybe it would be best to leave the blockwork exposed so at least it can dry out, it will only be damp that rises up through the blocks as they will not get rain soaked.


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## blackrodd

To stop ingress of water inside, If you're Aquaprufe is as good and similar synthaproof, a coal based product, paint the below damp blockwork with another two coats, (read the tin, I don't know why, but the brush must be worked all the same way, not up a few slaps, down, then sideways etc) And blind the last wet coat with good sharp sand and when dry, render with a good 10, or 12mm of cement render, pit sand is best, as Wickes sell. at 4 in 1
Use a length of 12mm wood strip or render stop as a thickness guide, keeping it tidy as it is rather a nice man hide!
This should stop damp ingress from outside and below DPC.
Obviously keep you're eye out for damp edges on the perimiters
Regards Rodders


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks for that Rodders.

As far as the above DPC any views on the need to batten out before ply goes on, (suppose the air gap helps insulation wise) or should I just screw it to the blockwork.

Taped and jointed and painted


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thinking about the doors.
Decided I will bite the bullet and make them. Have some 45mm thick softwood and 18mm marine ply. Inspired by Dibs great door build for his workshop (though mine won't turn out nearly as well)
Do the sizes look okay, and am I headed in the right direction with the haunched mortices? Tenons will be 15mm thick.
Planning on 15mm deep groove for the ply. Should I make the groove the correct width for the ply or rebate a tongue on the edge of the ply? (bad terminology) not interested in a raised panel but should the panel be in the middle of the door or a little further forward than the centre.

Also would like to put a chamfer on the horizontal outside edges of the rails to help rain run off, easiest way of doing this, dont want a 45 degree chamfer though.
Rather than mess about with rebated meeting stiles, thinking a false mullion type of thing.
Cascamite glue seems to be favourite?

As I need a pair and as its my first door think I will go for one first rather than trying to make a pair, just in case it all goes horribly wrong! If it works out then lessons learnt on first one will help.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Well for a first door it seemed to go relatively well. No idea if it has been done correctly or not, but it is together, straight reasonably square and roughly the right size.

45 mm thick softwood, Mortise and Tenons. Was a little unsure how to deal with the 18mm marine plywood panels, in the end decided a 12.5mm wide groove and took the inside edge off the ply. My 1/2" Dewalt router gave up and is now in the repair someday pile, which meant taking it easy with the 1/4" routers.

Took most of the waste off with a handheld circular saw, before turning to my rough and ready tenon jig. Mortises were drilled and chiselled.
Not too many pics just in case it all went horribly wrong, put some preservative on the hidden bits, edges of the ply panels, glued up with cascamite including gluing the panels in?





Rough layout, deciding on Muntin/mid rail position/how many panels






Frame coming together, one of many trial fits.






Highly accurate, super dooper tenon jig, large size.






Door number one.

If I am doing something drastically wrong, let me know now before number two comes along. Will try to get it on the scales tonight.


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## mindthatwhatouch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRvHJqR471A

Door Glue up.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Right,
Softwood exterior door with marine ply panels. Looking for a white preferably satin finish. Preservative, Primer then top coat.

Sikkens, Sadolin, Zinsser, Dulux weathershield aaarrghhh too much choice. HELP


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## mindthatwhatouch

Well it's an extra process that I could of done without but all the render is done, as per Rodders instructions above.
I've gone for the local vernacular finish of 'South Downs' :wink:


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## mindthatwhatouch

Right then need some advice on the door hinges.

The door frame is more of a lining really as I didn't want to close the opening down even more, this lining is set back from the front face of the blocks by about 15mm. Got hold of some cranked pin and band type hinges, whilst a reversible cup hinge looks better I was hoping that the cranked part will get me past the door lining, which it does but means fixing to the block work 30mm from the edge. I could move the hinge pin further away from block edge and use a spacer between door and strap part of hinge. (in which case I would go for the cup hinges) Using these hinges means that blockwork is exposed and it makes the cladding awkward, suppose could always render the front external blockwork. These will be easy to fit, as is fitting the door seal.










So do we think a fixing that close to edge of block will be ok, Maybe a chemical resin type fixing?
Or what about having a pin made up with an "L" shaped bracket to get the fixings away from the edge?

Option 2
Use these stainless bearing fire door hinges. These will be trickier to fit and adjust in future. What do I do with door seal where it crosses the hinge, or do I place on the inside of the hinge which means most of the door gap is exposed? 
The door lining is already rebated for four hinges before I fitted it, figured I would just fill them if I didn't use them. Will get a decent fixing because I can go through lining into blockwork. 
Can't place them where I would like because of the end grain, if I use these how close to the ends of the tenons do I go with them?
Something like this?









Hope this makes sense and thanks in advance for your advice and opinions.


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## RobinBHM

If using butt hinges fit with shims behind so you can take out as needed (see coastal ironmongery as an example).

Two hinges about a foot apart at the top is best for heavy doors.

For cranked bands, maybe weld a bigger plate behind for better fixings. Or widen opening with diamond disc and fit some 4 x 4 fence posts and strap. You can pack out and mount hinges onto cladding, but you will need to bring door frame forward. 

Dont forget the force of a big door if it catches the wind!


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thanks Robin, 
re: the shims do I need a deeper recess for the hinge and should they go behind all the hinges, the idea being that you can add or remove them when the door shifts. 
Still not sure what to do with the door seal, should it be cut where it crosses a hinge or should I place it inboard of the hinges? was planning to use Aquamac 21 but happy to change if there is a better option.

Decided to go with four stainless bearing fire door hinges, as I couldn't make the cranked straps work without an awful lot of faffing and reworking. Decided this was neater, bit of altering positions on the door frame to miss the ends of the tenons, so did a bit of trial fitting and trimming prior to a coat or two of preservative. Awkward moving them around on your own (45kg per door) but needed them in the door opening to get a half decent fit.


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## RobinBHM

Yes behind all the hinges with a deeper recess. Not necessary if you have allowed plenty of gap for swelling, but if not, its much easier than chiselling the butts deeper at a later stage.

Aquamac could be machined into the stops, I would use it as a compression seal, not wiper. It isnt usually fitted into the door.


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## Bradshaw Joinery

Mounting hooks on the wall and packing behing the bands to get the door inline with the frame will create a greater swing away effect at the meeting stile, you will need a greater gap, or a tapered rebate to negate this. (as the door opens it moves towards the other door)


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## mindthatwhatouch

Here's how not to get squashed by nearly 50kg of door when fitting it. One did take a tumble but I broke its fall!






Four stainless bearing heavy duty hinges per side 90mm stainless screws. Two coats of preservative, one of primer and one of sadolin superdec, just need a dry day now for the second coat (but I guess it can wait til spring)

Threw a few lights up a couple of weeks ago so I can see what I am doing. Daylight tubes


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## mindthatwhatouch

I will only have a 10mm gap behind the internal wall lining so for insulation fixed to blockwork wall, shall I go for.....
http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Thermal-Insulation-Foil-Roll-600mmx8m/p/210022#tab-details_content

or some 10mm polystyrene (yes I know it's not good in a fire, but then neither is all the [email protected] that I shall fill the workshop with)

or just leave the slight cavity.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Ran some 3" x 3" through the saw and a plane up, drip groove underneath, to produce some weather bars for the doors.





Bit of paint, not bad for some old pallet wood.





Also put a groove in the door stop seal.


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## Paul200

Hi there. I've nothing much to contribute - just thought I'd let you know I'm watching your progress with interest. It helps to know people are interested and not just anonymous watchers, I think. Nice job so far, and a little bit different too.

Cheers

Paul


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## MattDenny

Very interesting project - read right through and thoroughly enjoyed it  

Thanks for taking the time to post - especially the pics...


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## Wildman

all going as it should well done


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## Mcluma

Its coming along nicely


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## mindthatwhatouch

Thank you for the kind comments.

This was a part of the build that was going to wait til next summer, but I found some cladding fairly locally for a reasonable price, hired a van and went to collect, not my first choice of colour but may get painted (yea right) 21 sq. metres so I shall need a little more.
As I didn't want the cladding cluttering up the place thought I'd best get on with it. Plus once the party wall gets rebuilt I wont have access to one corner.





25mm x 50mm battens fixed to Blockwork.






Then some insulation, yes it's only 25mm thick but it all helps.





This all gets wrapped in membrane then another layer of battens.





Stainless steel insect mesh is pinned behind battens, then folded under and stapled to the front.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Once the mesh has been stapled I ripped some 30mm strips (these came from some previous cladding that I picked up cheap with the idea of finding some more, it's a different make (Hardie plank) which is a different size to the Cedral I just purchased, but it will get used) These starter strips kick out the bottom board, you can buy aluminium or stainless profiles for this (but being a skinflint and trying to keep spiralling costs down, so i can spend it on Christmas pressies. (for me)





I put a small 90° bend on two lengths of strapping, temporarily nailed these to two battens to support the first board for fixing. here it is hanging in front of the board.





first board fixed


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## mindthatwhatouch

Then a block of wood is added to the strapping. Distance from 90° bend to top of block is the board gauge. In this case 160mm. These boards are 190mm wide with a 30mm overlap





The bend locates on bottom of previous board and the block provides a rest to sit the next board on. A nail holds the strap in place on the batten, rest next board on wooden blocks and fix it. Remove nail and continue, using these I can fit the cladding alone. You can purchase fancy adjustable ones (gecko gauge or solo sider, but there is that skinflint again)

















Quick check with the level as you progress.


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## Charlie Woody

Nifty fixing aid, well done!


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## tomf

Just for future reference, I would not have bothered with the external wall insulation under your cladding, you have a lot of thermal mass in those walls and by the time you've warmed them up you'll have finished in the workshop. Fine for a house but if you use your workshop for a couple of hours here and there you're better putting the insulation on the inside.


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## biskit

Loving you workshop build  I think your going over the top with it but it's brilliant, keep us updated. Can't wait for the inside. 8)


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## mindthatwhatouch

tomf. Appreciate what you are saying with the insulation externally, but it all helps and did not want to lose the internal space.
biskit. Thanks. watch this space.....

A long overdue update.
The vertical joins between the boards should have a waterproof barrier behind them. A small strip of DPC or nice thick DPM works well.





One wall nearly done.





Another support was needed for the top board as I cant nail the strap to the batten, just a small L bracket that rests on the board below and lesson of the day is, this would have been a lot easier to fix before the fascia went on!


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## mindthatwhatouch

The other side was a bit more of a pain, had to lift out neighbours fence panels, then climb over the side fence every time I went in and out their garden and a window and door to cut round. Used up all the cladding material, just 2 boards short to finish the 2 longest walls. 





Bit of trimming on the doors, lock fitted. hinge pins and an escutcheon cover that had to have a small adjustment to be able to open ](*,) aren't grinders wonderful.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Used offcuts from 1/2" ply as some battens and had some 1/2" thick polystyrene cut to plug the gaps. 




Then clad with ply. No idea why there is a mix of horizontal and vertical grain, there just is!













It has since had a couple of coats of finish and started filling the garage with all my rubbish, sorry I mean top quality tools and materials.


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## n0legs

Well that's all looking good =D>


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## skipdiver

That shop looks like it would survive a nuclear attack. Excellent work.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Cut a drip bar for above the doors and managed some more cladding (had to pay full price for this lot though.









And whilst the weather has been rubbish some stuff inside. A little more plywood cladding.





and the first bench/storage. Chipboard and some 3" x 3" because I had some. Coated the chipboard with Thompsons water seal and used a fire door for the top.





Needed to start to try to get organised because I am constantly moving/falling over stuff as the old garage has gone. Everything has been dumped, err I mean neatly stacked in the workshop. Now you see it...




now you don't! Still have a garage door and fireproof corrugated hardcore that you see in the picture if anybody wants it ;-)


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## mindthatwhatouch

Jeez where does the time go.....
A long overdue update. Been plodding along with the outside when the weather allows, inside when it doesn't.

A secondhand set of double glazed doors. Bargain cost of £0. I was planning to have sidelights or window to the side, but decided to block off the 500mm each side of the doors. Which meant buying more cladding, delivery charge was almost as much as the cladding. (hammer) 





and then clad, and trimmed corners with strips of the Hardie plank white cladding.


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## mindthatwhatouch

So I have now built a couple of wall shelf units for stanley organisers, screws and general stuff. 
As well as sorting a wood rack of sorts, and three horizontal surface junk magnets (some people call these benches but as soon as I create a horizontal surface it seems to disappear) slowly reclaiming some floor space.....


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## curtisrider

Nice work! I tried so hard to not let my new workshop get messy but it's really hard when you need to home everything!


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## mindthatwhatouch

As it was a nice day thought I'd get the guttering sorted.
Clip one end, clip the other end a bit lower, piece of string between them to get a nice fall. I went for 3mm per metre drop and a bracket every metre. No idea if this is correct but seemed about right. Number of brackets is probably a bit over the top (unusual for me I know)





Then throw the gutter in...


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## skipdiver

1mt bracket spacing is about the limit and should be closer if you get a lot of snow, so you didn't use too many. I aim for 8/900mm.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Oh the benefit of hindsight. An update now I’ve been living with it for a while, prompted by my reply in another thread, in the hope that it helps others, as I have received so much advice.
Shall get some pics as well.

I seem to be in a constant state of reorganising the interior, now that I have some time as the bulk of the house extension is finished. It should be big enough but.....(particularly if you have to store timber, bikes, diy stuff, random rubbish) Of course it’s entirely possible that I have too much stuff :wink: :wink: 

Design, design, design. Keep thinking about overall design, I thought I had it nailed down fairly well but made some school boy errors, and would do things differently (I guess we all would) Of course it depends on your use, location, projects undertaken, machinery etc. 
My errors, just things I didn’t consider.
More windows needed, do not underestimate the beauty of natural light. You could always block or screen off the interior, if you’re worried about security. I thought it was nice and bright once I finished the inside, and clad with ply. Now it’s full of stuff, racking, cupboards on walls, it’s quite dark in places, lighting to be upgraded, which was always the plan. Paint the walls WHITE.

Do not underestimate the need for storage. The downside of windows/doors is they take up wall space! Floor space is important, but so is wall space. I have nowhere to store an 8x4 sheet flat against the wall because of the stupid piers I put in, and if I stand it upright it hits the ceiling! Make the walls flat ie no piers sticking out. I put two in the long length of wall, could of got away with one but then I am really happy with the extra open space and ceiling height in the open two thirds of the workshop. So I guess it’s swings and roundabouts. However the extra stoopid little half block I put in the corner to make it stronger was just that stoopid, unnecessary extra work!
Consider if you put ties between rafters have you enough room to swing a board or sheet. 

You WILL need more fixings and timber and materials than you thought. Get a decent relationship going with local (If possible independant) suppliers, so it’s no hassle to put some extra 4x2 onto that next order when you realise you’ve forgotten something.


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