# Hegner Scroll saw, big problem, need advise



## darthmuller (26 Dec 2013)

I recently bought a second hand Hegner scroll saw, it was in very good condition and had seen very little use. I bought Hegner because I have only heard praises about the machines and often considered the 'best'.

OK on to my dilemma: I got it home plugged it in, switched it on and was horrified! Noisy and vibrating very badly, I immediately thought something was wrong. I have two other lesser quality scroll saws, and even the supermarket Ryobi was far quieter and with less vibrations.

OK, so went in for closer look: at first I noticed the upper and lower arms were not parallel when looking down along their length. I thought the bushings might have been worn, but no, perfect. Then it seemed that the pins might have been bent, but NO.

Stripped the arms off and the 'C arm' and was horrified once again. The two pins are totally misaligned! The C arm is badly bent! And this is not from being abused or dropped or from any form of operational misuse. To bend that 'C arm' between the two pivot pins would take tremendous force. It would need to fall from a cliff to have that sort of damage.

Has anyone heard of this problem with the Hegners??? It is clearly a production issue.

Who has some useful info with this problem. And before anyone out there assumes I am a silly person, let me tell you I rebuild machines professionally and for my private use. And know when things are not true and what has been damaged from abuse or force. The C arm on the Hegner is extremely well build and heavy duty. I could only assume it is a casting issue.


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## martinka (26 Dec 2013)

As you state you rebuild machines professionally, I am hesitant to ask this, but are you sure it is the casting that is bent and not one of the pivot pins that has been screwed in cross threaded and now won't screw in straight, or is simply bent? Even if it were a bad casting, which I couldn't see getting through, the holes would be drilled and tapped in a jig and still hopefully be 'square'. The reason I am asking this is because one of the pivot pins on mine was bent slightly and caused a lot of problems. Luckily I was able to straighten it. Whatever the problem is, I hope you can get it sorted as i can imagine a new part coming from Germany to South Aftrica isn't going to be cheap.


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## Chippygeoff (26 Dec 2013)

I feel for you and the problems you have encountered. Its all very well giving advice but If I had been in your shoes I would have tried the saw before parting with hard earned cash but the horse has already bolted. From what you have said I would guess the saw has been dropped and used by someone not familiar with a scroll saw. Hegers are very good machines and very well made so when someone buys a new one they are almost ready to go from the box. There is a guy at Hegner called Chris Waghorn in the tec department, he is probably the most helpful guy I have ever met. Parts wont be cheap and on reflection it may have been wiser to have bought a better Hegner is better condition. If the saw is bolted down there should be no vibration. I can stand a glass of water on my table and at full speed there is not a murmur. I sincerely hope you manage to sort it out, its a wonderful machine and you should have many years of enjoyable use from it.


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## darthmuller (26 Dec 2013)

The machine has absolutely no signs of abuse or any wear, not even paint chip to indicate it has had a drop. That casting is very strong and to bend it would have been a substantial drop that would have damaged a lot more than the c arm.

Yes it is very strange!! The pins are perfect, threads are 100% true and have never been tampered with. Yes this part would have been bored in jigs, so to have the two pins out of alignment is very unusual. 
I really puzzles me how that very sturdy casting would be bent so much without any other damage what so ever. Unfortunately the seller was 1000km from my hometown, so I sent brother to go and visually inspect the machine. He has a eye for detail and I cannot blame his initial thoughts that the machine looked in near new condition without any signs of abuse.

I did not notice it until I first switched on the machine.


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## darthmuller (26 Dec 2013)

Chippygeoff

You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. I do not repaint old machines, I recondition them. Which is surface grinding, machine complete new components and even modifying them for specific needs. Wood work is a hobby.

That is why I am so confused how this 'Hegner' is so out of true. And saying it was caused from someone operating the machine with no scroll saw experience is rather weak. So I assuming the guy that used it as a press for fitting bearing parts previously????? To bend that c arm in even the most severe case of overload would be quite an achievement. 

I will certainly not buy a replacement part from Hegner. I will rather rebore both pin holes and seats and make two custom over sized pins. 95 pounds for the replacement part?? They must be smoking strong weed.


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## darthmuller (26 Dec 2013)

Martin

You made some valid points. Yes I initially thought it was going to be the case of a bent pin or loose fitting or so on. Which I could easily understand, this could be bend by a little neglect or even a light bump or fall.
But no casting bend between two pins. I stripped the machine and have had the C arm on an alignment table which is used for aligning precision components, checked with mitutoyo height gauges. So I am not relying on my eye balls.

You are right components from Hegner to South Africa are very pricey. I like the machine very much, so a little disappointed. I will rebuild and post pictures.

I worked in the U.S.A for a few years with a company doing complex aluminium fabrications and heat treatment of components, so I know castings can have stress in them and even bend after machining. Sounds like nonsense, but it happens.


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## hooch (26 Dec 2013)

Can you post a pic of the bent part
May help us all 
Also have you enquirer at hegner if they ever had a poor casting issue


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## stevebuk (27 Dec 2013)

darthmuller":59nv7ub6 said:


> Chippygeoff
> 
> You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. .



Totally uncalled for, Geoff is a very experienced scroller and is just offering his take on your situation, and for you to come asking for advice then lambasting one of the recipients is disgraceful.

As you have worked for the 'Top end' fabricators and Hegner is just a toy perhaps you should find an engineering forum and leave us poor minions to our wood cutting...


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## M P Hales (27 Dec 2013)

stevebuk":3l23rir2 said:


> darthmuller":3l23rir2 said:
> 
> 
> > Chippygeoff
> ...



+1 :x


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## redmoorphil (27 Dec 2013)

Well Done Darthmuller!
You come onto the forum asking for help, and when it is given you insult one of the members.
I suspect you may be better off finding another forum where the participants don't treat each other as respectfully as they do on here, as it is now unlikely that you will ever receive any further help.
I doubt that anything we could say could help somebody in such a superior position anyway.
Chippygeoff is definitely one of our most respected, respectful and helpful members on here and you have just successfully shot yourself in the foot.


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## Bryan Bennett (27 Dec 2013)

I agree with the above post,and having Geoff has a friend who has helped me so much since I joined the group in many ways.It is a insult to us all to have a individual post these comments on this website.

Bryan


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## bassethound (28 Dec 2013)

Darthmuller

Totally agree that you need to find another forum! :?


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## ChrisR (30 Dec 2013)

darthmuller":1o1tdxya said:


> Chippygeoff
> 
> You sound a little like a Hegner snob, I could be wrong. I professionally rebuild very high end machinery. Everything from Schaublin instrument lathes to Weiler tool room machinery and anything inbetween. A Hegner is a toy compared to the complexities and the precision of these machines. I do not repaint old machines, I recondition them. Which is surface grinding, machine complete new components and even modifying them for specific needs. Wood work is a hobby.
> 
> ...



Geoff, took the time to post his advice, which was valid, and from a very experienced (Hegner) user, so why the attack ?.

If you are such an experienced engineer, maybe you should have been able to sort the problem for yourself without asking advice from this forum. 
Please don’t attack people who are trying to help you. 
I hope you now have got the message by the number of posts you have generated regarding your post directed at Geoff.

Chris R.


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## Geoffrey (30 Dec 2013)

ChrisR":3lcy2maj said:


> darthmuller":3lcy2maj said:
> 
> 
> > Chippygeoff
> ...


1+ :shock: I don't think the saw was in existence he didn't take Hooch up on the pics.

Geoffrey


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## darthmuller (16 Jan 2014)

For all that would like to see a bent casting.

Firstly the casting is not square to the bottom mounting face as indicated by the Moore&Wright machinist square. Secondly both pins are bend inwards. I could almost reason the thought of the top pin being bent, but casting is already bent badly before the lower pin. So do the math on that one. To bend that casting that much before the lower pin will take Superman's strength. And the cast alloy base is perfect???? To bend that casting would certainly break the base casting. I also know that casting are never perfectly square and the pins would be jigged and machined parallel to the base.

So who has some comments?

OK I will make an apology to Geoff on this forum, I might have been to hasty. But it can be frustrating to hear comments along the lines: you should have checked it first, and Hegner's are perfect type attitude. Yes this is why I bought one, because I believe in buying good tooling and have only heard good things about Hegner. I am not trying to run Hegner down, just informing people out there that not everything is perfect and be careful. I will probably re-machine this component and put new bushings in casting and the machine will be great again.

I have worked in industry which specialised in cnc alloy components, and let me tell you this: if you think every component that comes from a jig is 100%, thing again. Parts do get through inspection at times without being perfect. Human error prevails.

And after consulting with other professionals in both the casting and fabricating industry they have all stated that this is quite possible to have happened in the machining process. If any doubt the other components for additional signs of wear and damage, I will photograph and post.


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## mac1012 (17 Jan 2014)

not wishing to frustrate you more but it looks to me like that top pin has had a wack at some stage :lol: :lol: :lol: 

ok you may be able to demonstrate that it was in the manufacturing process , but one thing puzzles me if that was the case who in their right mind would have paid all that money for a brand new hegner for it to be unusable and then not send it back ?

just a thought....

Don't worry about your comments sometimes we all say things in haste I have had far worse things said to me on uk workshop and seen far worse comments that are just insults to wind someone up (and me ) people with far too much time on their hands and need to get out more :shock: ,at least yours wasn't like that 8) 8) 8) 

There is no reason for you not to be on here you have as much right as anyone else its not an exclusive club  


mark


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## darthmuller (17 Jan 2014)

Some people just don't know any better and probably thought it was the norm. Well I spent a day on the re-machining an alignment the Hegner. It is now 100% true and tolerances all neat and smooth. Checked all moving parts and all good.

BUT!!!!! Still not as good as I thought it would be!!!!!!!!!! I have compared it to a few other lesser Chinese made scroll saws and was disappointed that the Hegner still vibrates more than saw 1/4 of it's price. Really does not make any sense to me. Even with all the work I did, it is still the same as before when it had the bent pins.

Geez!!! There must be a answer out there somewhere for this problem. Does anyone know of some skillful trick to improve this saws balance????????

Here are some additional pics of the repairs and bronze bushings I made to improve this little machine.

Sorry, forgot to photograph the bushings in-place before assemble. I will take pictures soon, but I want to run it for a little while and then I will take apart once again and inspect bushes and check for any unusual signs of wear. But I am very confident that it is running very true after the rebore.

Mac, I hear you say it 'took a knock' on the pin, but how would you explain the bottom pin bent upwards?? the two pins were converging.


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## heatherw (17 Jan 2014)

I'm also mystified, you'd think they would have noticed

i) during assembly, wouldn't they have had to force something to get the pieces together? 
ii) As Mac said, what was the the first owner doing not taking it back? Unless it was one of those times when you buy something and then don't get around to using it for 3 years.

There aren't any fake Hegners around, are there?


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## woodndrum (18 Jan 2014)

Hi, setting aside some of the heated and perhaps misinformed comment, thanks for the pictures. Afraid I had some difficulty understanding or appreciating the problem. The pictures clearly show this. As I am currently searching the market for a second hand Hegner I would like to try and understand how you are able to fix the problem (if it's possible) Buying an item second hand at long distance like this almost always involves a level of trust. I'm sorry to think that you have been let down, and secondly am concerned that I may be duped in the same way. Thanks, Keith


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## ChrisR (18 Jan 2014)

woodndrum":d53pnxuo said:


> Hi, setting aside some of the heated and perhaps misinformed comment, thanks for the pictures. Afraid I had some difficulty understanding or appreciating the problem. The pictures clearly show this. As I am currently searching the market for a second hand Hegner I would like to try and understand how you are able to fix the problem (if it's possible) Buying an item second hand at long distance like this almost always involves a level of trust. I'm sorry to think that you have been let down, and secondly am concerned that I may be duped in the same way. Thanks, Keith



Keith.

I was not going to post on this tread again.

But to alleviate some of your concerns, I am certain that this saw did not leave the Hanger factory in that condition, if the saw is as bad as trying to be indicated then it has had a chequered past, its as simple as that.
I am not sure what the thread originator is trying to prove.

If you purchase a new Hegner you have zero risk of being stuck with a defective machine, because on the off chance that a defective saw did leave the factory. Then Hegner or their appointed dealer would replace it without question.
If you are purchasing second hand then ideally you need to inspect before you purchase, or have a return agreement in place. 
Or purchase from a trusted source.

If you do obtain a Hegner in the future new or secondhand, I am sure you will be very pleased with its performance, having said that, It goes without saying, that Hegner is not the only quality scroll saw on the market.

Take care,

Chris R.


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## Grahamshed (18 Jan 2014)

ChrisR":31md206i said:


> It goes without saying, that Hegner is not the only quality scroll saw on the market.
> Chris R.


That is not the impression you would get from reading numerous other posts on UKW. What other makes do you have in mind ?


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## martinka (18 Jan 2014)

Darth, you've probably already done it, but check the motor is set up correctly. It makes a hell of a difference both to vibration and noise, or at least it did on mine. I ended up with one bolt not as tight as the rest to get it just right.


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## woodndrum (18 Jan 2014)

THanks ChrisR I think I will give up on the idea of a eBay bargain then, and save up the extra £200ish and get one from the factory. If I don't get one from a trusted scource, like a member on here.
I only know of the Excalibur range which might be considered on a par with Hegner are there others that are available in the UK ? American web sites are 'full' of adverts, but I guess the VAT and Import duty would make that too expensive.


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## powertools (18 Jan 2014)

I can't help with the problem with your Hegner, I don't own one I have never seen one let alone use one and I don't aspire to one as scrolling is only a small part of my hobby.
I own 2 of these:-







My original one runs like a sewing machine and is a pleasure to use and is not fixed down as it goes under the bench when not in use.
I was looking for another saw of the same type and purchased one near to home for £15 on ebay. The thing is a beast and is more like a wacker plate in use and moves around the bench on it's own but due to the fact that on the face of it they are identical from the same factory this has to be a fixable problem but I have yet to find the cause.


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## ChrisR (19 Jan 2014)

Grahamshed":etmby5lc said:


> ChrisR":etmby5lc said:
> 
> 
> > It goes without saying, that Hegner is not the only quality scroll saw on the market.
> ...



I personally don’t have any experience of any other scroll saws, as I only had a hand fret saw from the age of eight years old to fifty nine, when I purchased a Hegner, that is now nearly twelve years ago, it serves me very well, so I have no need to look any further.
But I am sure there must be other quality scroll saws out there.

Take care.

Chris R.


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## Geoffrey (19 Jan 2014)

It looks like Darth is not the only one with bent castings on a Hegner.
see Roughcuts post dated 12.10.13 [ Hegner Scroll Saw advice] I don't know how to link to it just do a search.

Geoff.


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## darthmuller (19 Jan 2014)

Here is a link to a machine that I totally rebuilt, ever nut and bolt reconditioned like original. New parts machined from scratch and old parts rebored and so on.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/ ... x?id=16293

This is something I did for my own wood shop. And this one too.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/ ... x?id=16445


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## toesy (19 Jan 2014)

Geoffrey":1yb6kzhv said:


> It looks like Darth is not the only one with bent castings on a Hegner.
> see Roughcuts post dated 12.10.13 [ Hegner Scroll Saw advice] I don't know how to link to it just do a search.
> 
> Geoff.



Hi Geoff

To post a link, you copy the URL from the top of your internet browser. 

With your mouse, right click the area where it currently says http://www.ukwork................ and select "COPY"

Now in your reply you will see the URL , click this button ... now you can either right click and paste, or press CTRL & V buttons together, it will the paste the link you copied inbetween the URL markers.

Sorry to original OP, but wanted to help a forum member out.

By the way Darth those rebuilds are awesome work.... I would love to have your set skills....


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## Bryan Bennett (20 Jan 2014)

I was not going to post on this tread again.

But to alleviate some of your concerns, I am certain that this saw did not leave the Hanger factory in that condition, if the saw is as bad as trying to be indicated then it has had a chequered past, its as simple as that.
I am not sure what the thread originator is trying to prove.

If you purchase a new Hegner you have zero risk of being stuck with a defective machine, because on the off chance that a defective saw did leave the factory. Then Hegner or their appointed dealer would replace it without question.
If you are purchasing second hand then ideally you need to inspect before you purchase, or have a return agreement in place. 
Or purchase from a trusted source.

If you do obtain a Hegner in the future new or secondhand, I am sure you will be very pleased with its performance, having said that, It goes without saying, that Hegner is not the only quality scroll saw on the market.

Take care,

Chris R.[/quote] I was not going to post on this thread but to add that in my opinion that Chris R. is right with his comments and also the person who put the post on has NOT,I repeat has NOT made a satisfactory apology for the remarks that he made. Bryan


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## scrimper (20 Jan 2014)

ChrisR":1emjzj7f said:


> woodndrum":1emjzj7f said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, setting aside some of the heated and perhaps misinformed comment, thanks for the pictures. Afraid I had some difficulty understanding or appreciating the problem. The pictures clearly show this. As I am currently searching the market for a second hand Hegner I would like to try and understand how you are able to fix the problem (if it's possible) Buying an item second hand at long distance like this almost always involves a level of trust. I'm sorry to think that you have been let down, and secondly am concerned that I may be duped in the same way. Thanks, Keith
> ...



I have to agree with all of the above, it beggars belief that the saw in question was sent from the factory with bent arms or pivots and I find it inconceivable that anyone who bought it would be happy to accept such a defective machine! Which surely indicates that it must have been damaged in such a way after leaving Hegner.

As far as Hegner being the best saws on the market goes I can only say that if there is a better (or even as good) saw available I don't know of one, I have 3 scroll saws inc a Hegner and IMHO the Hegner is just streets ahead in terms of quality and user satisfaction, I can't speak for others but every time I use the Hegner it gives a sort of feel good factor and you just get that feeling that you are using the best!

I probably sound like a Hegner fanboy but I actually also like my British made diamond fretsaw, however even though it is well engineered and oozes quality it does not give that feel good factor that the Hegner gives.

I really do wish that some company would produce a quality machine to offer a comparable alternative as I do think Hegners are way over-priced and the amount they charge for spare parts is in some cases almost 'criminal'! (for example a simple on off rocker switch that costs less than £1 from many electronics suppliers they wanted over £24 for!)

If another top quality machine were available it might help to bring the high prices that Hegner charges for their machines down a little. Axminster do offer some saws that on first glance look almost identical to the Hegner apart from the colour, I have not tried them but I am sure I have read somewhere in this forum that they just don't come near to a Hegner?


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## JimiJimi (20 Jan 2014)

This might seem like an obvious suggestion, but have you tried contacting the person you bought the Hegner from, to ask how it got to be in that condition?

Jimi.


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