# Homemade Ellsworth grinding jig?



## Oakbear (5 Nov 2009)

Hi folks i've recently bought the crown 1/2" Ellsworth grind bowl gouge, and am having a bit bit of hassle learning to replicate the grind.

I don't use a jig system, preferring to work freehand on my cheapy grinder. Up to now it's worked fine, and i can do a regular fingernail grind or most other bits. This one seems a bit tricky though, and i don't want to totally knacker the factory grind practising!

So, i'm b#####d if i'm spending big money on a a square of metal on a stick as a jig, but wonder if people had any recommended homemade set ups? Any tips on sharpening this grind freehand?

Cheers!


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## cornucopia (5 Nov 2009)

The tormek can replicate the ellsworth- so if you do make a real mess we can always put it back. but before you do try and grind it I would reccomend that you take a mould of the tip using plaster of paris.

I find the ellsworth too severe which is why my main gouge is a couple of clicks back from it.

to sharpen free hand only touch the tip for a split second then move up the wheel and swing the handle round to the side. i find the left side easier than the right- only practice and repetition will give good results.


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## CHJ (5 Nov 2009)

cornucopia":2v7pgju1 said:


> .......I find the ellsworth too severe which is why my main gouge is a couple of clicks back from it.
> ......


 Likewise, would not recommend a beginner attempting to use one, grabs like a good-un if you so much as think about poor bevel contact on the long edge, mine is gradually being returned to 'my norm' as I sharpen it.

Glad I tried it, but it's not for me and my ability or approach.

With most jigs it needs a greater tip protrusion, (increased swing radius) but then it's a case of gentle dressing of the sides, it's far to easy to remove too much metal and cause the form to break into the flute giving a concave upper edge as opposed to convex.


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## Bodrighy (5 Nov 2009)

A lot of these customised grinds suit the person that 'invented' them but that doesn't mean they will work for other people. Looking at my grinds they are definitely not conventional but they suit the way I work (ham fisted and aggressive :lol: ) I find the long swept back grinds awkward and would reccomend anyone to simply find the grinds that suit them best, not just assme that a famous turners grinds are the bees knees. 

Pete


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## stevebuk (5 Nov 2009)

i also have this gouge ryan, so we can copy the shape from there, but i have never used my gouge as yet.


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## cornucopia (5 Nov 2009)

stevebuk":2ttdrhkv said:


> i also have this gouge ryan, so we can copy the shape from there, but i have never used my gouge as yet.



-george shakes his head and tuts at steve- :lol: 

how long have you had it for steve?
you know its a knuckle wrapping offence not to have used a new tool within 7 days of purchase :lol: 
if my wife spots a new unused tool she moans and comments somthing like"well you obviously didnt need it in the 1st place then" etc etc :roll:


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## stevebuk (5 Nov 2009)

i actually noticed when in my cabin today i got the wrong bloke, my gouge is a len grantham gouge, but it still hasn't been used though, now you will probably say, " i'm not suprised".. :lol: :lol:


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## Harlequin (5 Nov 2009)

must be a video out there somewhere - can't find it though :?


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## CHJ (5 Nov 2009)

Here's the details of the settings required

They are outside the standard template settings., I find the Ellsworth profile very sensitive to user control and needs care to maintain, I think a locked jig, as Tormek themselves refer to in the video, and in this reference could well be a necessity if exact repeating of form is to be achieved at this end of the jig travel.


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## robo hippy (6 Nov 2009)

While I can't do it free hand, if my platform in front of the grinding wheel is set to the proper angle, I can do it. Check out Mike Mahoney's You Tube thing on sharpening. I believe that is the more traditional fingernail grind. His platform is set to 45 degrees for the bevel angle, and he has two marks on the sides indicating a 45 degree angle from the wheel for the sweep. The swept back grind is the same thing, to get the sweep, you swing past the 45 degree angle. How far depends on how much of a sweep you want. At present, I prefer the traditional grind for the outside of the bowls, and the swept back on the inside. I find that the swept back grind does a better job of going through the transition area of the bowl, perhaps because the wings are lower. Having a more blunt angle helps, as in 60 degrees or so. When going down the inside, I have the flutes at a 45 degree angle away from the wood, which I guess translates to 1:30 on the clock. As I go through the transition, I roll it to almost 90 degrees. If you are going down the inside and have the flutes more vertical, the inside edge can catch because you come off the bevel, so roll it a bit away from the cut. Also if you are roughing, don't bury the whole nose in the cut, that is just too much steel on the wood at one time. I have been using the swept back grind for 10 years, and the traditional grind for less than half a year. I will be using it more just to see how it works, but taking a workshop with Allen and Stewart Batty did open my eyes to a few things. 

robo hippy


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## Oakbear (6 Nov 2009)

Thanks folks! I think the idea of casting it then giving it a bash and see is worth a go.

I see what perople are saying about it being severe. I've not quite got my head around it, but not killed myself yet either!
I reckon i'll probably end up using a less dramtic fingernail grind on it, but fancy playing a touch more as it is first, as the long wings are ace for shear scraping!

Steve, you're fast becoming a collecter of nice tools! Get usiing them! :lol:


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## Oakbear (10 Nov 2009)

For reference i thought i'd let people know that i happened to buy David Ellsworth's book, and it has the info i was looking for in there.

Sharpening freehand is tricky, he admits himself he uses the jig for convienience, but the knack is doing it in 2 parts, from the outside of the wing to the centre.

I'd recommend the book by the way, it's a wealth of information. Single best turning book i've read to date (and i've been theough a couple of dozen).
Also very handy if you have this gouge too, as there's a fair bit of instruction on it's use.


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## robo hippy (10 Nov 2009)

I continually eye ball the profile. Some times the nose is too pointy, too round, or off to one side or the other. I don't try to correct it all at once, just nibble at it till it gets back to where it is supposed to be. 

robo hippy


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## Harlequin (19 Nov 2009)

rather than start a new thread - thought it best to post the question here.
apologies to the thread starter .

Have got the Alan Lacer bowl gouge with the Irish grind on it.
Cuts like a dream 
Question is what settings do you suggest on the sorby universal grinding rest to recreate the original grind on the gouge


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