# Beehive construction?



## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

Hi Guys and Gals...

My mother has asked me to make her a beehive for her back garden.

Has anyone had any experience of building one?

She would just like to attract the bees with the correct flowers...which she knows about...and have them live nearby so she can watch them at work. If she happens to collect some honey in the process that would be a bonus.

I am presently trolling Google but thought someone here might have some advice...

Cheers

Jim


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## superunknown (26 Feb 2010)

This is something I have been looking to do myself, there are a lot of designs online. I have a book, keeping bees by Paul Peacock that I can recommend.


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

Thanks super...

Of the plans that you have researched....which do you consider suitable for a long narrow garden in the suburbs? My mother regularly wins Kent In Bloom prizes etc...and has a really nice garden but it is long and thin....about as wide as a semi.

Any help you can give gratefully received. It is her 75th birthday in three weeks and I want to surprise her and start making shavings....

Jim


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## Mike.C (26 Feb 2010)

Adam, a former moderator was into all things bees and was somewhat of an expert on them, but unfortunately I do not think he has been around for a while. If he does look in hopefully he will see your post.

Cheers

Mike


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## superunknown (26 Feb 2010)

I am no expert, this is just something I would love to get into. The whole thing fascinates me. I really don't know enough about it to give good advice.


Found these plans if any help?

http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/reso ... hp?cat=402

I don't have a lot of spare time to get into it as much as I would like just now, but I have seen a little 'bee house' suitable for any garden. Similar to a large bird box size. I'm thinking I might give that a try this year.


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

superunknown":27v7oid9 said:


> I am no expert, this is just something I would love to get into. The whole thing fascinates me. I really don't know enough about it to give good advice.
> 
> 
> Found these plans if any help?
> ...



I saw those plans earlier...my worry is that they are all American...and I am worried that they may have imperial rather than metric bees!!

   

Seriously...does one have to consider the species?

Jim


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## hivez (26 Feb 2010)

Hi I'm a beekeeper and would say if possible join a local club or find a friendly local beekeeper, look up British Beekepers they will help. I'd recommend that you look for plans for a "National Hive" and if possible make it out of Cedar although many beekeepers use deal. WBC hives (traditional looking with a pent roof) are great to look at and the bees like them but there is a lot of lifting as they are double skinned Bees do suffer from the varroa mite and you will need to know how to treat them for this. If you or your mum joins a local club I'm sure someone will help you with plans or lend you a hive set up to copy, plus you will be helped to source some bees. Thornes is a good source of start up materials and Sheriff make great beesuits. Drop me a pm if you need any help

Regards

Dave


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

Now with a nickname like hivez I HAVE to listen to your advice!!  

Excellent news! What a wonderful place this is for all sorts of information!

Will take all that advice and go in search of those plans....I have only 3 weeks to make the hive and in secret too...so will contact the WBC by email for info.

Thanks Dave!!

Jim


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## Oryxdesign (26 Feb 2010)

Didn't we get a grant from the EEC so that we would standardise all our hives, isn't it called a Langtroth or something?


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## hivez (26 Feb 2010)

Jim WBC is a shape of hive not a company see this for some plans

http://www.beesource.com/files/10frwbci.pdf

Dave


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

This plan looks fantastic:

CLICKY HERE

It says Western Red Cedar is the best wood...obviously because of its outdoor properties without preservative....

"Other softwoods are possible with preservative..." 

What preservative on pine would be suitable without killing the occupants?

Jim


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

hivez":26lk65c7 said:


> Jim WBC is a shape of hive not a company see this for some plans
> 
> http://www.beesource.com/files/10frwbci.pdf
> 
> Dave



AH...see my other post...I think I realised that just about the same time as your post...

Thanks Dave

Jim


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## hivez (26 Feb 2010)

I've always used Curpinol clear used only on the outside and its not affected my bees, alot of beekeepers use it on deal hives


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## TheTiddles (26 Feb 2010)

jimi43":1pzuqar5 said:


> This plan looks fantastic:
> 
> CLICKY HERE
> 
> ...



Maybe a wax finish? HA! HA! BOOM! BOOM!


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

AH....ok...

I think I will use deal then...or see if I can get some cheapish cedar....

Mr T that joke stings!!!

 

Jim


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## nanscombe (26 Feb 2010)

Came across a couple of local websites that may be of interest.

Kent Bee Keepers association

Park Bee keeping supplies


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## jimi43 (26 Feb 2010)

Very interesting...thanks Nigel!

Jim


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## OldWood (27 Feb 2010)

I also keep bees. I have cedar hives which came to me from an old beekeeper near enough 50 years ago so are seriously old. I've had to do some repair work on the rooves this year, but otherwise they are fine.

Before you get started just check that the mother's keeping bees is not going to be a nuisance to neighbours (can be classified as a Statutory Nuisance).

Secondly I know that building something from scratch is something that drives all DIY'ers (and particularly for the family), but do just check on the amount of work and then look at suppliers and see if the relationship between their price and your effort/material costs is valid. 

Rob


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## Mike PA (18 Mar 2010)

We (wife and I) are also just getting into keeping bees but I have worked on the fringes of beekeeping for some years in the context of parasitic mite control.

The critical thing about beehive construction is the 'beespace', the space between the frames of comb. If it's too wide, the bees fill it with disorderly 'burr comb', if it's too narrow (less than about 6 mm), they gum it up solid with 'propolis', a sticky, resiny-waxy sealing material.

Because of this, it's generally suggested for we hobbyist types that we buy ready-made or kit frames of the correct critical dimensions. (This also makes easier the buying and inserting of sheets of 'foundation' , a beeswax or plastic (or combination) material used for providing the bees a template on which to build a single layer of 'comb', the cells used for rearing young bees (brood comb) or for storing honey (honeycomb).

Once you have the frames, eight to ten of which, side-by-side, make up the contents of a brood chamber (the base 'box') or supers (anything stacked on top of the base), the rest of the structure could, with care, be made by a competent d-i-yer. (Frames also differ in height, so you may choose 'deep', 'medium' or 'shallow' boxes, depending on preference, experience in your area and the strength of your back!)

This structure has evolved from the original hive invented by L. L. Langstroth and is now a widely used standard form, in having removable frames, a major step forward in rearing and manipulating bees and harvesting honey and beeswax. Even if a single standard is not current in the UK for the whole hive (I don't know), standard frames almost certainly are and, as described, they provide the basis for the construction of the rest of the hive.

For protecting hive bodies made of deal or other soft woods, the Canadian recommendations are for a latex or alkyd undercoat plus at least two latex topcoats. Only the EXTERIOR surfaces should be painted: _i.e._ do not paint the inside(s) of the box(es), lid or frames! White is the traditional colour but, in any case, avoid dark colours as they may contribute to the hive's overheating in summer (bees create a considerable amount of heat on their own, without the help of the sun). Alternatively, you can use an exterior grade polyurethane stain.

My apologies for this being so long-winded (must be a newcomer's enthusiasm!) but I hope it's of help.


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## jimi43 (18 Mar 2010)

Rob, Mike...thanks for the feedback.

I have been doing a rather lot of studying. I bought Mum the Peacock book and "Beekeeping for Dummies" for a laugh...for her birthday.

The Peacock book is really interesting and educational but I also downloaded complete plans...including the frame dimensions.

I found a source of Canadian Red Cedar and am pricing this once I make a cutting list. I may consider buying the standard frames as you say. It seems that this is the halfway route in keeping me happy...I am sure I can replicate the requirements but if it is cheaper to buy the frames then that would probably be best.

I have also agreed to go with her to the Ruxley West Kent beekeepers meetings before I embark on building to ensure she knows what she is getting into!

Thanks again guys...very helpful

Jim


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## Mike PA (18 Mar 2010)

It's a very good idea to go to the local beekeepers' meeting, you'll get lots of practical information and, probably, genuine offers of help, I'm sure, about things like siting the hive (though I know your mum's garden doesn't offer many options), re-queening, pest and disease control and so on.

I am certain you'll enjoy it, too: beekeepers are truly a breed apart (with all due respect to Hivez) and some of the last of life's real individuals.


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## OldWood (18 Mar 2010)

Mike PA said:


> beekeepers are truly a breed apart (with all due respect to Hivez) and some of the last of life's real individuals.



Actually I find statements like that thoroughly patronising and inaccurate; groups of enthusiasts on any topic are all 'a breed apart' - that's what makes them enthusiasts - get a bunch of them together, from teachers through to steam nuts, and you'll never get a word in edgewise 

Jim, just be prepared for a bunch of elderly anoraks who are not that good at being sociable and are all very much into their minutiae of bee life, honey production, etc. I've got pushing 50 years of beekeeping experience and of all the social groups.clubs I belong to, I find the beekeepers the most introverted and unapproachable.

Rob


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## hivez (18 Mar 2010)

I think Oldwood is partially right there are people like that knocking around.But I was lucky that a great "master" beekeeper taught me with all the patience in the world. Members of the club gave me equipment and also came to my apiary to help when I needed it. Plus I could loan books and extracting equipment and buy cheap equipment through the club shop

There are good associations with good people out there

Dave


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## jimi43 (19 Mar 2010)

Interesting take on this sector of interest.

Of the people I have spoken to, they all, without exception, appear to be quite welcoming and generous people.

When I asked for membership fee details I was told "Just come along...your mother needs to ensure this is a subject she really wants to get involved in, if she does we may ask her to contribute £1 towards the coffee and sticky buns..."

I think that sounds quite welcoming indeed.

My view of bees....NO BLOODY WAY! This is because I was stung by a swarm when I was only six and it has left me with a permanent phobia for needles of all things! I can't even watch an injection on television without looking away!

I am quite happy to sit there and support her but as far as getting practically involved...well that may take a bit more guts!

From my mother's point of view...I want this for her as she enters her twilight years...she is 75 now and I hope that she will remain active for many years yet...she does about 10 miles of rambles a week and recently entered the Greenwich walk bike ride for charity...so I think she is far more active than I am!

But we have to be realistic and I think this will be an engrossing hobby for her to get into and she certainly has the patience for it. She also firmly believes in it....not quite to the Einstein definition but almost!

Thanks for the feedback guys.., much appreciated

Jim


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## Plutus (19 Mar 2010)

Jimi 
I'm a beekeeper too and endorse everything the others have said.
Cedar is also used because it is light in weight and easier to lift the box when full of bees.

Hive plans can be downloaded FOC from the Scottish beekeepers website.

Would you mind sharing your source of cedar as I'm planning to make a few myself?

Thanks
Peter


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## jimi43 (20 Mar 2010)

Plutus":31modlhd said:


> Jimi
> I'm a beekeeper too and endorse everything the others have said.
> Cedar is also used because it is light in weight and easier to lift the box when full of bees.
> 
> ...



Hi Peter.

It is not that close to you but the source is just up the road from me.

They will cut to size and it is £1155 cubic metre or plus £130 planed.

MORGAN TIMBER - ROCHESTER KENT

They sounded really helpful.

The plans I got are for the 10 Frame WBC hive based on 5/8" wood

I am now trying to work out the cutting plan and quantity.

Plans were on http://www.beesource.com

I would like to work with you on this and the other guys here to make sure I do the right things....but I want to go to the first meeting and meet locals who have their own swarms and see what their views are.

Cheers mate.

Jim


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## devonwoody (20 Mar 2010)

Do you need planning permission for bee hives or permits, I recall they can be classed as dangerous animals? (Some people are allergic to bee stings, lethal)


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## Plutus (20 Mar 2010)

Thaks Jim
It's about the same price as up here.
I'm trying to find some at a price which will equate to 33% of the main suppliers prices (in the flat) but i haven't found a cheap enough source yet.

WBC is the most complicated of all hives to make as it's double walled.
Also, it's harder to use as you have to lift off the outer hive pieces (called "lifts") before you can get to the inner ones where the bees live.
Most hives are flat roofed and don't look as good as the WBC but are more practical. An alternative is to make a gabled roof national which looks similar. Check out the thornes website for prices and looks. Also, if time is short it may be worth buying one in the flat and assembling. Don't forget that the perfect hives from the main suppliers are knot free, so if building your own you need to be comparing knot free timber prices.

http://www.thorne.co.uk/

No you don't need planning permission for hives as they are moveable. However, on allotments you need permission from the allotment committe and maybe the council if it owns the site. 
Wherever they are. if the bees turn out to be a nuisance and neighbours complain the authorities can make you move them by law (can't remember which one)


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## paininthe (20 Mar 2010)

OldWood":2munxoj3 said:


> Mike PA":2munxoj3 said:
> 
> 
> > beekeepers are truly a breed apart (with all due respect to Hivez) and some of the last of life's real individuals.
> ...



Your 2nd paragraph qualifies your first paragraph.


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## jimi43 (20 Mar 2010)

devonwoody":1s2tvpf5 said:


> Do you need planning permission for bee hives or permits, I recall they can be classed as dangerous animals? (Some people are allergic to bee stings, lethal)



I don't think so and I understand that when someone called The Police....Sting wasn't interested! :wink: 

I'll get me coat!


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## devonwoody (20 Mar 2010)




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## SimonB (20 Mar 2010)

Just getting into beekeeping myself, one piece of advice I got on the beginners beekeeping course was to ensure that if you join a local beekeping assocation make sure they are affiliated to the BBKA, that way you get insurance against loss of your colony, however if your mother is getting her bees for free this is perhaps less of an issue.

Whilst not a practising beekeeper and knowing only some of the theory after having read a considerable amount and attended the course I have realised that there is far more to successful beekeeping that just being a bee owner. Without wishing to teach her to suck eggs, she needs to ensure that she is at least familiar with swarm control and disease and to ensure a strong colony next year that she understands the need to feed the colony when necessary especially in autumn to ensure enough stores for winter.

If I may, one book recommendation is 'Guide to Bees and Honey' by Ted Hooper (ISBN-10: 1904846246, ISBN-13: 978-1904846246), although this does go into some depth on what I would call the more advanced aspects of beekeeping. The trick it seems to me, as a beginner, is to know what are the essentials to maintain the colony and what are the tricks of the trade as it were to improve honey production.

I've als thought about making some of the hive components myself and have been looking for a cedar supplier, thanks for the link.

Good luck to your mother, I'm really looking forward to getting started, my bees arrive in May apparently.


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## jimi43 (21 Mar 2010)

I am fast becoming amazed at just how many woodies are also into bees!

These two things must go hand in glove for some reason...I think we are all "friends of the earth" to some extent...working as we do with living vital entities.

Many thanks for the constant supply of help guys...it is most appreciated I can tell you!

Jim


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## frugal (22 Mar 2010)

We had friends around for Sunday lunch and after lunch a set of plans for a Top Bar hive were waved in my direction with a hopeful look.

As Western Red Cedar looks to be quite hard to find, what other woods would people recommend?


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## Plutus (22 Mar 2010)

Deal is also quite good if looked after.

Just read about a guy who made his top bar hive from old pallets - cost him £10.

Don't know much about TBH's but for standard hives you really need 2 as if they look ready to swarm you need another hive PDQ.


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