# Concrete sectional garage workshop refurb - Work has begun.



## ManowarDave

Hi all,

I'm after some advice/suggestions regarding making a nicer space to work in. I may also be a little bit jealous after following recent workshop builds by Sheptonphil and DBT85.

Currently my set up is in a double sectional concrete garage. I can hear the groans. Not my fault though, it came with the house. As a space it is great (about 4.8m x 6m). The biggest problem is in the winter with condensation. It literally rains inside. This spring I had to replace two work surfaces that have been water damaged and had to re-spruce up the cast iron. It's also cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey!

I know the ultimate solution is to get rid and put something proper there. Unfortunately the budget will not stretch that far at this point in time.

My current working theory is to build a box within a box so the concrete outer effectively becomes my "cladding". Then I can insulate and board and have a happy space. I'll also wall in behind the up and over door for more wall real estate and reinstating the side door which is currently a poorly installed window with feather board badly installed below it. (When I say badly installed I mean that the previous owner actually fitted it upside down to catch and channel the water inside!)

The rest of the garage appears to be sound (if draughty) and apart from the condensation issues appears to be water tight. Construction wise, it sits on a pretty hefty concrete slab and is the type with vertical posts every 4ft and four overlapping horizontal slabs secured between each post. The roof sits on a metal frame work. It is corrugated cementitious asbestos, but again water tight for now so will be left well alone, to be replaced at a future date. It even has a brick walled inspection pit (also water tight)!

So, my thoughts so far are to effectively build backwards, starting with the existing outer walls in place, batten the inside to create an "air gap" against which a stud frame will be placed and fixed. The stud frame will then be filled with insulation (Kingspan or similar). Finally, board the interior with ply or OSB. The roof can then be done similarly I think.

We're about to have work start on a loft conversion in the next few weeks (hence the budget restrictions) so I'm hoping to gain the majority of the timber for the internal frame of the garage from what can be saved from the old roof on the house. In theory my only outlay should be the insulation and sheet materials.

Can anyone see any fundamental problems with this approach or suggest a better way of attacking this?

Thanks in advance.

Dave


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## Westwood

Firstly apologies MD if my sixpennyworth is off beam as I don't know much about your budget and site.
I don't think there are problems with your approach but there may be a better way
If this were me , I'd be tempted to leave the concrete walls as they are and insulate and clad on the outside. But of course i don't know either a} whether your eaves detail can accommodate the extra width of this and b} whether you have easy access to all four faces of the building.
By insulating outside, you preserve all all of your internal space; going your route you are likely to lose up to 200mm off each "axis". I also wouldn't use Kingspan or Celotex or similar, but the much higher performing and easier to install *Actis* products. With this insulation, in a combination of their honeycomb Hybris product and the Boost R Hybrid multi foil stuff, you can achieve a U value the same as a newly built cavity wall construction, so you have a well insulated , and condensation free interior. And you still have your 4.8 by 6 metre internal space. I would clad this in something like Marley Cedral or Hardieplank as SheptonPhil has done, as your outer rain screen which then avoids having to redecorate in years to come. depending on your site and access , this again can be a DIY job.
Inside you then have a concrete wall to play with , ideal if you plan to have anything heavy like shelving etc hung from the walls. i have this and hung a 1200mm square heavy tool cabinet off the concrete inner walls of my solid block workshop, ex single car garage. With your approach you will need to know where all your studs are and even then, will you be comfortable if you have particularly heavy items to mountain the wall ?.
Perhaps there is a disadvantage with your approach in that your existing concrete wall will always be wet. Why not clad it on the outside, then it can dry out fully and you eliminate your condensation issue. Electrics and conduit may need to be surface mounted but most people are happy with that.
Actis insulation is used extensively in the building trade, particularly with timber frame construction. If you're not familiar with Actis, have a look at their website www.actisinsulation etc and they have many videos showing how you can install as a one man band, with none of the mess which goes with using sheet foam boards. Ideally you would insulate the inside of your roof too, and Hybris is ideal for this. If you plan to do this later it could be left until you do a decent job of the roof, get rid of the asbestos etc. The Hybris insulation is a simple friction fit between rafters or studs, and is a DiY option needing little or no specialist skills.
I have a 44mm thick walled timber shed roughly 4.5 by 5 metres, which has a basic roof of felt on 25mm boards, with rafters at about 600mm centres, and I'm shortly going to be overcladding this with felt shingles, and insulating the underside of the roof between the rafters with 90mm Hybris. 
Hope this helps


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## Westwood

Sorry, their website is www.actis-insulation.com.
Type Actis insulation in YouTube as well to see exactly how easy Hybris is to use


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## SammyQ

Them links is dead, deceased, gone away, cashed in their chips...


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## MikeG.

External insulation is great, but it always runs into problems at the eaves. Even if you have a decent eaves overhang, it is very difficult to get continuity with the roof insulation and still leave a ventilation path under the roof sheeting.

Dave, what's the inside of the roof like? Are you thinking of insulating at rafter level, or at joist (flat ceiling) level?

The fundamentals of what you are proposing are sound. However, there are some critical points you need to take into account. For a start, I wouldn't attach anything to the walls. I would suggest leaving a completely clear void, because you are going to need as much airflow behind your new inner wall as possible. I'd leave a 50mm gap, and use 4x2s to span from floor to ceiling. These MUST be lined on the inside (the workshop side) with a vapour barrier, but the good news is that OSB (or ply...not quite so good) acts as a perfectly good VB. Ideally, you'd sit the timber framed wall on a course or two of bricks. If you don't, then you should at the very least sit it on a very wide DPC which you then turn up the outside of your studs 4 or 6 inches in case any condensation does occur in the void. Your void can then be vented with airbricks (difficult to cut through the concrete), and at the eaves.

Come back to me on the roof, because the design is a bit different depending on where your insulation is going (rafter level or joist level).


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## Blister

I did a build thread years ago , It's gone now ?

what-s-blister-up-too-now-t34753.html?hilit=garage


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## SammyQ

Dave, I have considerable sympathy for your cogitation; our housemove saw me shrink my woodworking space to a third of previous, to wit: into an uninsulated, draughty, 16' x 8',1950's sectional concrete panel single garage (how in Hades did people get out of their cars if they drove them in there?). 
I've subsisted - woodworking wise - since (24 months), as I repaired and rebuilt our Bungalow-with-Bodgered-B*lls-ups back into "habitable", but I now (well, definitely before winter starts ) want to re-floor and insulate The Hermitage.
What type of roofing do you have? Mine is asbestos/concrete sheeting, so is being left _in situ_, but the steels of the roof trusses are 4' apart and 4' wall-to-peak herzactly, so my "cunning plan" was to glue/fix half sheets of Celotex to their undersides. No other finish, save maybe spray white matt on 'em.
The floor will be rough 3"x2" or so, on top of a D.P.M., beefed up by extra 'timmer' here and there to take the weight of my 400lb Wadin saw and its heavier mortiser cousin, yada, yada, then chipboard recycled from an an incredibly complex and inept loft conversion. Debating what insulation to use down there, can't be 'floating' beneath floor as the surface is corrugated (think 1" deep corrugations) and subsided noticeably toward one end  . Reckon individually cut oblongs of Celotex?
Walls are still 'out for tender' but, I am tempted to use the regular-spaced bolts of the existing panel structure as the anchoring basis for Vertical 'posts' 4' apart, with half-lapped squared 'frames' in between, secured to the posts, to which I fasten O.S.B. or similar on the workshop side. I am tempted, really tempted not to put insulatin behand that, but don't see how I can then expect to be cosy...costs ya'see.

That should give me a level floor that stops eating the wheels of my tool carts as I move them, have aerated ceiling and wall voids, and ward off the worst temperature plummets. Heating will be an 1.5kW oil-filled radiator. 

*Informed* criticism welcome.

Sam


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Westwood

I don't think external insulation is achievable in this scenario. Access to two walls externally is quite difficult. The garage is about 18 inches from the boundary on the rear and right hand side. The boundary at the rear is a wooden fence, the boundary on the right, another concrete sectional garage. I can just about squeeze in there once a year to cut back the brambles and ivy that come from the neighboring properties. Additionally the asbestos roof only over hangs the walls by a couple of inches to reach the guttering.

Mike,

The roof is pitched with the ridge running front to back. The current roof supports (are they rafters or trusses? I'll call them trusses for now and stand corrected later  ) are of welded angle iron construction. There are no horizontal ties. They are bolted to the vertical posts between the concrete panels so the centres are approximately 1200mm. I would like to insulate to the "rafters" to maintain as much internal height as possible. The images below show the metal trusses. The bottom of the truss is approx 1.95m from the floor where it meets the wall so I would not want to put joists in at that level. I'm not the tallest person in the world but only 5" of head room across the whole area would get a little claustrophobic. The apex is about 2.65m from the floor, the underside of the truss at the apex about 2.45m







The trusses join at the apex with bolts.






Here is a brief drawing as a section through the garage.






As you can see in the photos there are more angle iron supports (three in total at about 1m centres) running the length of the roof perpendicular to the trusses which the roofing is fixed to. Will these provide enough support for insulation and boarding or will I need to add to this?


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## SammyQ

Blister said:


> I did a build thread years ago , It's gone now ?
> 
> what-s-blister-up-too-now-t34753.html?hilit=garage




Yes please Angie!!


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## SammyQ

Dave, I think you have the big brother of my one, judging by the similarity of the roof construction. Look forward to more on this.

S.


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## ManowarDave

Hi Sammy,

They're lovely buildings aren't they?  I like the idea of using the existing bolt holes in the uprights to fix the frame to. However, having just popped out to the garage to take a look I think getting the original bolts out will be a chore. Lots of rust . I think my garage may be a tad later that yours. PP records show about 1968 for mine.

An insulated floor sounds like a good idea too. Mine is "pretty" flat. Just slopes to the left a bit away from the inspection pit.

Dave


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## ManowarDave

Hey Blister,

Was this the thread you were looking for?









What's Blister up too now ?


Well after the arrival of the BGM :lol: , I though it was time for a shake up / re vamp / workshop sort out :P I am now going to move into the Garage as my turning shop so decided to take it from this to this no light feet in itself :roll: , move everything , move the racking , re...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk


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## MikeG.

ManowarDave said:


> ....... I like the idea of using the existing bolt holes in the uprights to fix the frame to.. ........



As I explained, I really wouldn't do that. You would then have to produce individual air inlets for each individual void you created, and that would turn into a nightmare. Mentally treat the inside of the concrete wall as though it were running with water.

-

Thanks for the photos and drawing. I think I would be tempted to put a flat ceiling structure across on top of the new wall frames, with OSB on the underside and mineral wool (fibreglass) insulation piled up on top. Getting the fibreglass in and held up before you install the OSB is the complicated bit, but battens and bits of string should see the job done. The point is not to leave a large void, but about a 50mm clear void to the underside of the roof sheet.......and, critically, to have that void continuous, unobstructed, and fully open at the eaves (with some insect mesh). That means you'll have more insulation in the middle than at the edges. If you leave a big void you'll probably need to install gable vents, which is why I would pile up the insulation.

The alternative of installing the insulation at rafter level (ie a vaulted ceiling) would be easier in terms of getting the insulation in, but much more difficult in terms of the structure. I can work this out for you if that's the path you choose to follow.


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## Blister

ManowarDave said:


> Hey Blister,
> 
> Was this the thread you were looking for?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's Blister up too now ?
> 
> 
> Well after the arrival of the BGM :lol: , I though it was time for a shake up / re vamp / workshop sort out :P I am now going to move into the Garage as my turning shop so decided to take it from this to this no light feet in itself :roll: , move everything , move the racking , re...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ukworkshop.co.uk



Yes indeed , Thats the one , Thanks


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Mike,

That makes sense about the wall void. Independent frame it is. Presumably this can be tied to the outer structure for stability at points (ie on stand offs) just not in continuous runs?

Instead of installing air bricks which would require cutting square chunks out of the concrete panels and mortaring in the air bricks, could I drill a hole pattern in the concrete to simulate the same?

I think I'd like to go down the route of the vaulted ceiling. Not only will it be less claustrophobic but will also give me some height to help turn/manipulate large panels and long lengths of timber. Any help in this area much appreciated.

Dave


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## MikeG.

If you can get hold a diamond core drill, you could cut out some holes suitable for those cheap plastic circular soffit vents you see in modern eaves. Or, have a look and see if the infill panels can be lifted up. If you could raise the top 3 by say 15mm, leaving that sort of gap above the bottom one, you might be able to get some sort of insect mesh in there without compromising on the weathertightness. That's a theory only, as I certainly haven't tried it or seen it done.

You really shouldn't need to tie the timber inner wall to the concrete outer at all. I mean, a free standing workshop like mine is the same construction as you inner one is going to be, and it doesn't need tying to anything.

Let me know your eaves height and the roof angles and I'll look at the sort of structure that should work for you. Would a couple of horizontal ties at or just above plate level be a nuisance?


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## ManowarDave

Hmm, I've got a set of core drills. That's not a bad idea at all. What's the odds I can't get a matching diameter though . I think lifting the panels is too big a job. Despite my drawing the corrugated roof rests directly on the wall panels on the two side walls. I'd potentially have to raise the whole roof.

I was thinking the frame might need to be tied to the existing structure as there would potentially be no integrated roof structure to stabilise the top of the frame. I get what you mean having followed lots of build threads based on your plans and advice. Just stumped on how to apply it to what I have to work with.

A couple of horizontal ties wouldn't be the end of the world.

Please see the image below for additional dimensions. Let me know if you need anything else.






Thanks

Dave


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## ManowarDave

ManowarDave said:


> Hmm, I've got a set of core drills. That's not a bad idea at all. What's the odds I can't get a matching diameter though .....



Ha, Core drills = 38, 52 and 115. Standard round soffit vent....70mm


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## Lons

ManowarDave said:


> Ha, Core drills = 38, 52 and 115. Standard round soffit vent....70mm


Just drill a few holes and stick s/s insect mesh behind it with sikaflex or grab adhesive. You can buy it in rolls< I think mine is about 75mm wide, watch your fingers though it's sharp, don't ask how I know that.  

You already have ventilation at the join between walls and roof looking at the photo ( wouldn't that be enoughat the top Mike? ) That would also need insect proofing.


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## SammyQ

*"I think lifting the panels is too big a job. Despite my drawing the corrugated roof rests directly on the wall panels on the two side walls. I'd potentially have to raise the whole roof.

I was thinking the frame might need to be tied to the existing structure as there would potentially be no integrated roof structure to stabilise the top of the frame. "*

As Dave says Mike, the horizontal wall panels rest on top of each other. Jacking up the wall would also mean jacking up the roof. Alternative Gents? The panels end on a flat horiontal surface, so the corrugations of the roof panelling naturally create exits up there. Mine are stuffed with War-Surplus bra padding (by the look of it) but insect mesh could easily be substituted. An angle grinder, subtly used(!!) could cut a few 'letterboxes' low down for those horizontal brick-replacement vents one can buy? This means one might cut to suit one's vent? Bingo, vented void behind internal panels. My pre-fab concrete panels are less than 50mm thick, so this should be possible, if tedious, dusty and a noise-abatement case in the making. Drilled holes at the corners (a la kitchen sink insertion ) should cut down the 'over-grind' lines on the panels, lessening repair/re-finish. In my wee huckster of a shack, the previous owner did exactly this, to put in two windows, post erection (behave!).

I agree with Dave'S second point too; any internal structure _could_ be tied to the existing steels, by using longer bolts perhaps, with a lot of the load-bearing then being taken down to the floor (query? MikeG?). This would lessen or remove the need for head-height cross-ties, rafters, or whatever? [Non-architect/engineer perfectly prepared to be slapped down over this].

Sam


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## MikeG.

Lons said:


> You already have ventilation at the join between walls and roof looking at the photo ( wouldn't that be enough at the top Mike? ) That would also need insect proofing.



Yep, that's more than enough at the top, but yes, making it insect proof is critical.


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## MikeG.

OK, then as others have said, if you use the existing structure to hold the top of your new stud walls then your roof doesn't need to do the job. It will only need bolting at the top.......but bear in mind that the forces on the wall (such as they are) are going to be outwards, not inwards, so you'll need to put a spacer between the timber wall and the concrete post before bolting the two together at the top.

I think the easiest way to do the roof would be to Tek-screw some 45x45's to the underside of the truss members, running longitudinally (ie along the long axis of the building) at 600 max centres. Push some mineral wool up on top of them such there is still a clear 50mm gap to the underside of the roof sheet, and then friction fit some 40mm Celotex between the timber purlins. Screw your OSB to the underside of this, making sure that long-edge joins fall on the purlins. It's really important that the wall and roof insulation meet each other, but that there is still a continuous air path above the roof insulation.


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Mike,

I've had a quick play in Sketchup to see if I have understood everything regarding the roof. Please let me know if I have misinterpreted anything.







Thanks

Dave


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## MikeG.

Looks cracking to me.


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## ManowarDave

Well I've spent some time pondering, thinking, planning, drawing, budgeting etc.

With work on the loft conversion due to start in 2 weeks (it's a big job and I'm not doing it) I'm hoping to get started on the garage in the next three to four before the weather goes too far south.


The plan thus far... (Apologies for being a bit pic heavy but it helps me think it through).

Here's where I'm starting from.






Step 1: Clear out the garage. (It really is a tip at the moment but I'm sure we've all been there!)

Step 2: Once I can see the whole of the floor and take a decent level, decide if any self levelling compound needs to be applied.

Step 3: Lay a course of bricks around the inside perimeter of the garage.






Step 4: Whilst the mortar is going off, remove the old windows and some of the wall panels for a bit of a rejig for windows and doors.






Step 5: Get the angle grinder out, trim some of the concrete panels and refit in the following configuration. Whilst in the mood for cutting concrete I'll drill holes for "air bricks" at two points in each wall with the exception of the up and over door. The budget is stretched at the moment so I will probably have to order and fit windows in the new year. For now I won't cut through the internal OSB and I'll weather proof the outer with some left over DPM and OSB, fitting some leftover PIR into the window sized hole between.






Step 6: Install the 45x45 purlins to the roof trusses.






Step 7: With the mortar dry, lay down a DPM accross the whole floor. This will roll over the bricks so the stud sits on top of it.

Question: Can this finish at the outer edge of the brick or does it need to turn up the outside of the stud slightly?






Step 8: Erect the stud walls. (To be fixed top and bottom to the exisiting concrete posts, stood off the width of the cavity local to fixing points only.) I've chosen to go with 3x2 CLS for the studs.
a) Minimise lost space.
b) walls aren't loadbearing
c) dirt cheap at £2.50 per 8ft length.






Step 9: Install the 100mm mineral wool over the purlins and friction fit 40mm PIR insulation between.






Step 10: Fit PIR insulation to the walls and board the ceiling with 9mm OSB.






Step 11: Board out the walls with 11mm OSB. (Despite the drawing I won't be cutting out the windows).






Step 12: Lay 25mm PIR on the DPM.






Step 13: Lay P5 T&G floor boards over the PIR.






Step 14: Paint

Step 15: Fit the electrics and lights.






Finally, the section detail for the wall and floor.






The budget, excluding windows, is circa £1600. I've priced everything up and should be pretty much there or there abouts.

Everybody has been really helpful so far so any further comments and advice very much welcome.

Cheers

Dave


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## ManowarDave

Well, work is underway earlier than anticipated. Due to work commitments at the end of the month I bought my week of annual leave forward and cracked on with getting everything on order.

Last week I tried to get ahead of the game a little and took the diamond core bit to the walls and got three of the six vent holes drilled.






Now with a final size for the holes it became apparent after much more ggogling that soffit vents do not come in the size I need anywhere. My wife suggested I 3D print them. She's a smart cookie, so that's exactly what I did.











Quite pleased with that if I do say so myself. Took three days to print all six.

Lots of bits and bobs turned up over a few days plus trips to Toolstation, Screwfix and Wickes. The first major delivery arrived on Friday. The bulk of the PIR boards.






Saturday saw the start of the main bulk of the work. First off, clearing out the garage. Do NOT judge!






I knew it would take a while so started at early and had expected it to be done by lunch time so I could lay the bricks in the afternoon.

The timber supplies stacked up.






All the other random stuff that I hoard.






Well 3pm came and went before I got to the bricklaying. First time bricklayer here and doesn't my back know it! And my hands too! Looks like I've had an alergic reaction to the mortar. My poor little finger tips are all blistered and lacerated which is making doing anything quite painful.

I started by spacing a couple of bricks out from the walls with a packer and running a line around the perimeter with a straight edge. I then picked what seemed to be the highest corner of the floor and started at it. On the whole not a bad run, but keeping everthing level, straight and square saw me knocking off at half seven about 3 parts done.






Sunday morning saw me finish off the brick course. Nitrile gloves a definate plus for my poor dainty digits. I was quiety smug that my levels met at the final corner.

Now it was time to start rejigging the wall for the door and windows. I am a big boy but I don't do well with big black spiders. To my credit I only jumped once and didn't cry for my mum at all.

Windows coming out and kicking through some rotten boards.






Getting the concrete panels out took some head scratching. They weigh about 60kg's a piece and I am doing this on my own. I resorted to a ropes and pulleys method (ish, no pulleys to hand). A piece of 3x2 went up in the trusses, the panels were eased up with some breaker bars and then a rope was secured around each panel towards each end. The rope was slung over the 3x2. I then removed the metal tabs that hold the panel to the posts and eased the panel into free space. After that I was able to lower them to the ground. By the way, that is my best side.






The really hard part was getting two full panels back up in to replace the two original windows that came out at the end. I was about to call my old man for help but my wife insisted that he was too old and she would help. What a gal. It was a struggle but we managed it.

Next up, slicing down some of the concrete panels to get the openings for the UPVC windows I will eventually put in. A segmented diamond blade went through these like a knife through hot butter. It went a lot more quickly than I had anticipated so making up the time lost clearing the garage out and getting back on schedule now.






And finally at the end of day 2. I ran out of beans about tea time so will cut and fit the other panels this morning.






Right, time to crack on with purlins for the roof and prepping the floor. Further updates to follow.


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## ManowarDave

So, it's progress all in one big lump. I haven't really stopped to be able to post anything up in the interim.

Coming to the end of my week off and not nearly as far along as I had hoped. The order of tasks changed a little from the original plan, however, a reasonable amount of progress has been made.

Picking up from where I left off, the purlins were fitted to the roof trusses. These were ripped from some reclaimed 6x2 (145x45 sawn) to 45x45(ish), clamped up to the trusses and fixed with some M6 bolts which I had in abundance. Some very rudimentary hand sawn half lap joints, glued and screwed to tie the approx 2m lengths together into 6m runs.






Insect mesh fitted into every nook and cranny I could find. Due to having to fill all the little gaps where the corrugated roof meets the walls I elected to buy a large sheet of PVC coated fiberglass mesh and cut strips and pieces to the required sizes. Then, with out being able to staple into concrete, I used some silcone sealant to secure into place.











Onto the DPM. I put a sand blinding down first as some of the concrete surface was quite rough and it also helped me level out the lumps and bumps. The DPM was laid in two pieces as the roll was only 4m wide. A good 1m+ overlap and then taped along the seam with DPM tape. Finally tucked into the corners and rolled over the bricks.






Next up, 25mm PIR boards were laid over the DPM. With the sun coming through the door and window openings it was quite difficult to see due to the reflection off the foil.






On to the floorboards next. Looks like Wickes gave me boards from two different manufacturers/batches so a little colour mismatch here and there. A very slight difference on the T&G too but got them all seated respectably in the end. I staggered the pattern by using the off cut of the last row to start the next row. Worked out quite nicely and avoided any joins in the insulation and floorboards joining up.






Now the fun bit. Starting to put the frame up.






And finished with noggins in place. All stiffened up nicely. A sheet of insulation in the wall too to see how it went as it's the first time I've used it.






Before getting carried away with insulating the walls I slogged on with insulating the roof. Probably my least favourite part of the job, threading the mineral wool over the purlins. As the rolls were already part cut for 450crs joists I sliced the rolls into the narrower sections which made it much easier to handle and run over the purlins. Then the 40mm PIR board got stuffed up into place.






Finally, the long slog of finishing off stuffing insulation into the walls.






I've had to start moving stuff back in as the weather is due to turn early next week and more importantly SWMBO wants the garden back.

Today should see the roof getting boarded with OSB and then hopefully use the evenings in the week to board the walls.

A quick measure up at the end of yesterday and the final internal space will be 5.8m x 4.65m when the OSB is up.

I am bent and broken. 12 to 14hr days 8 days in a row (OK, I slacked on Thursday and only did 10) but somehow still happy.

More updates as and when around work and life from now on.


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## MikeG.

That's going to be a lovely space. Toasty and dry.


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Mike,

Although I haven't asked a great many questions I feel that all the advice you have given previously to others in other threads has answered pretty much all of my questions. So thank you for all your advice, not necessarily given to me.


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## Blister

I'm inpressed looks great


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## Coyote

Great progress. That's going to be a heck of an improvement!


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## SammyQ




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## ManowarDave

Well, after a bit of a struggle lifting 8x4 sheets single handed, the roof is boarded.


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## Mcluma

Looking good


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## Jester129

Impressed and envious. Good going....


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## ManowarDave

With just the evenings available to me this week it took until last night to get the walls boarded. Unfortunately I forgot to take a photo before I started painting so here we are with the first coat on.





Hopefully get the door frame and door in tomorrow.


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## Lons

Watching with interest and it's looking very good.
I noted you 3d printed the vents so you might need to find out if the plastic is UV stabilised which I suspect isn't the case and if not it will likely degrade over time. You may be able to buy a protective sealer or paint or maybe print off some spares for future replacements.


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Lons, and everyone else.

I really can't wait to get done so I can start organising the inside and get back to some wood bashing. It's been far too long since I made something decent. LOML would like an oak frame bed for the new loft conversion before X-mas.

The 3D filament is indeed not UV stabilised. Even so it should last 2 or 3 years as a minimum, maybe up to 10 depending on conditions from what I have read online.

I plan to refresh the masonry paint on the exterior of the garage next year when I put the UPVC windows in so a good slathering (careful not to fill the holes) over the vents should protect them.

Even if they do fail, eg through an errantly misplaced boot, it's only a matter of printing another 1 (or 2).

Dave


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## ManowarDave

Still slow progress unfortunately due available time. Can't believe I originally thought it would all get done over a long week...

From where I left off:

I got a door frame knocked up from 2x6 treated timber. I made it slightly taller that the original plan so as to avoid ducking every time I went trough it. I had to trim a slice out of one of the purlins to get it to fit. That cheap reciprocating saw I bought a couple of years ago on a whim got an outing. I think it's only the second time I've used it but it would have been a ball ache with out it.






This was followed by building a door. It's pretty basic, OSB both sides of a 2x3 frame with diagonal supports. The triangular voids will get filled with the same PIR as the walls. Hung from some nice big beefy ball bearing hinges. Nice and smooth.






I fitted a 5 lever sash lock and then realised I hadn't bought a bloody door handle (hence the square file you can see poking out).

From the outside. It has since been primed and is waiting to be painted.






Now to try and restore some power. The old consumer unit went in the bin and was replaced by this.






I work for a company that designs and builds machines for the food industry so might have gone a bit over board . At least I have somewhere sawdust free for the table saw VFD to live now. There is room for another one too!

Then on with installing the rings for the wall sockets and lighting. I've got one light lashed up on straps for now. It's amazing how much light there is from just this one panel. There will be eight in total.











In between pulling wires (should have gone for 25mm conduit rather than 20mm (and white) but availability forced my hand. Now I've started installing it, 25mm white seems to be back in stock!!! Ce la vie.) I stuffed the door with insulation and started paneling the back with OSB offcuts. Why offcuts? because numpty here under ordered by one board! Just need to find a strip for the top and paint the inside.






Finally got a door handle too. Due to the thickness of the door, the square shaft was too short so ordered some 8mm key steel to make one to suit. The keys would also not reach the lock in the center so these were graciously extended by one of the chaps at work with the welder.

Still some work to do on the electrics, fit some skirting boards and door trim and then build some box frames to hold the LED panels/transformers but it feels like the home straight now.

Dave


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## AJB Temple

Getting there. I like that huge electrical cabinet!


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## Blister

You need to be careful with using OSB on the door as It is not very water resistant , When wet it falls to pieces rather quickly


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## ManowarDave

AJB Temple said:


> Getting there. I like that huge electrical cabinet!



Thanks AJB. It's quite poor compared to some of the things we design. I'm just a shiny buttocks now who hasn't been on the tools for some time so it was fun to have a play.



Blister said:


> You need to be careful with using OSB on the door as It is not very water resistant , When wet it falls to pieces rather quickly



Blister, I've seen it puff at the edges before but it's not been my experience to see a sheet fall apart. The sheets for this build were out in the rain for a couple of days before they went up on the walls. Maybe I've just been lucky. The door will be getting a couple of thick coats of exterior gloss over the primer so it should stand the test of time. If it does fail it should be easy enough to replace as it is only face screwed to the frame. Time will tell.

Dave


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## Cabinetman

You ought to be justifiably proud of your new workshop. Absolutely ace. I wouldn’t worry about the OSB on the door and the weather, I’ve seen it used untreated outside for years and still standing. The only anything I would say is that the door isn’t particularly burglarproof (sorry). Around me there have in the past been spates of break-ins to outbuildings, and you really wouldn’t want to lose any of your good tools. Ian


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## ManowarDave

Thanks Ian,

Burglar proofing has crossed my mind. Just needs a bit of thought. Dry and toasty has been top of the list at the moment though.

Open to any suggestions.

Dave


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## Cabinetman

One time in my life I had shops that were always been broken into so I must admit to being a little bit keen on prevention, I would make the door open outwards so that it can’t be forced inwards, at the moment your door has very little torsional rigidity and so this would really help. It will also give you a little bit more room inside the workshop. I would fit jam bolts in case they attacked the hinges. Easy to do you need Coach screws with a half inch shank screwed into the edge of the door then you cut the heads off and when you close the door it marks the frame where to drill the hole – at a slight angle to accept the bolt, 3 should do it. Sheathing the outside of the door with zinc plate really puts them off, held in place with coach bolts right through the door. 
This bit is just for information, the lock you have should be ok I think. I used to buy locks in Spain, I don’t know the name of them but it was the only place I could find them, they had a half inch square bar that slid about an inch and a half when the key was turned. They may not have been insurance security rated but they were incredibly tough, and I have never ever known a burglar to pick a lock. 
In my present workshop if they do actually manage to get in, all my handtools are in a rack which I then put into my tool cupboard (with all of the above on that door as well). They don’t like to spend too long inside once they have broken in in case they are trapped so I think I’m relatively safe.Ian


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## Cabinetman

Of course when they see your door is pretty impregnable they will just climb through the window. Bars I am afraid, bolted through the concrete not the window frame, and I always used to have the glass held in with silicon, this means that if they break the glass they can’t just pull the pieces out, and you might be very lucky that they cut themselves on it – the police do like a bit of DNA to work on. Another problem with the window is that they can see what you have in your workshop, you probably wouldn’t want to do what I’ve done and use obscured bathroom type glass, so you could just have a net curtain which drops into position when you leave the workshop. Ian


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## ManowarDave

Bloody hell Ian, I'm starting to think I should have built an underground bunker instead.


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## Keefy.

Like your work!


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## FalconFlyer

Westwood said:


> Sorry, their website is www.actis-insulation.com.
> Type Actis insulation in YouTube as well to see exactly how easy Hybris is to use


www.insulation-actis.com


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