# Opinion sought here (Shapton waterstone)



## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

I recently bought two Shapton Professional waterstones, a 5000 and a 8000 on eBay. The 5000 is 80% thickness (12 of 15mm), and the 8000 is 60% thickness (9 of 15mm). Overall they cost me about half the new price, and this was important because (along with the 1000 I bought new), this is a very expensive system to purchase (compared to my 800/1200/8000 King waterstones), all up over $200 USD new. 

It is relevant to note that the reason for purchase is that I want a cleaner, less demanding system. The Shaptons are noted for minimal water use and for remaining flat a long time.

Shortly after winning and paying for the stones, I was brousing the forums for more info about Shapton and came across a post from the Seller discussing these very stones. In the post he was complaining that he could not stop the 8000 stone from flexing. He would use it, then flatten it, then leave it to dry out. Later he would find that the stone had flexed about 1mm and was no longer flat. 

His stones wound up on eBay, and I bought then because none of this was made evident. I emailed him even before I received the stones in the mail, and this is his reply:

_ All stones need to be flattened before and during use. Many man made synthetic stones move when going from wet to dry back to wet again. Humidity etc.... Naniwa is another. Shaptons will move a little some more than others. _

Now I think that this is nonsense. Yes, all waterstones need to be flattened, but "move a little more"? Move at all!!

The stones duly arrived (very well packed, I might add), and I examined them carefully. Using a Starrett square I found the working side of the 5000 perfectly flat. However the 8000 was convex by about 1mm at each end and on the reverse it was concave in the centre by about 2mm. This indicates a "banana" shape to the 8000, and tends to reinforce the early complaints of the stone moving and flexing.

It occurred to me that the reason why there was a difference in the thicknesses of the 5000 and 8000 was that the Seller had flatened the latter so many more times to make it usable (he had also sold a 2000 Shapton - which I did not bid on - and this was the same thickness as the 5000. So the 8000 was the odd one out). 

I emailed the Seller about this two days ago saying that I want to return the 8000 stone and be refunded my expenses (at least for the cost of the stone plus half the shipping cost - plus more for shipping it back?). He has not replied and I fear that he will not do so. Two days to respond is enough time I think, but I will email him again and give him until the end of the weekend.

One thing I have had reinforced is "cheap is dear". If I can get a refund, I will pay the full price for a new 8000 stone (as an aside, is it worth/possible going from a 5000 to a 12000?).

Another issue is whether any others have experienced this phenomena with their Shaptons, especially as they wear and get thinner? I just cannot see how they would/could sell them if that reacted this way. Shapton would go out of business.

Now one last question. On the assumption that the Seller will not come to the party and I am left with this flexing stone, I could just try and "fix" it. This would involve epoxying the stone to a sheet of glass. I would use a 4-6mm thick piece of float glass the same dimension as the stone so that it can be replaced within its plastic box. The advantage of this is that it will essentially return the stone to full thickness and allow it to be used to the end (I wonder how far one could otherwise go - with my Kings I have gone as far as a 1/8" - 3mm - before replacement). 

My question with the use of two-part epoxy is in regard to the effect on the waterstone. Gluing it to glass should be straightforward, but will the now (I hope) absence of flex cause stresses in the stone and cause it to crack? This is quite critical since I would be prepared to negotiate a lower price with the Seller (for cost of additional materials) and keep the stone if this repair it doable. 

Last point here - I would plan to epoxy the convex working side face down since it would be very difficult to remove the convex. It is easier to flatten a concave side. This all assumes that the stones are usable all the way through. I assume that they are. Can someone confirm this for me plaese.

I await all comments. Thanks in advance.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## woodbloke (19 May 2007)

Derek - interesting, can't help on this one I'm afraid. The only thing that I'm a little unsure about is gluing them to glass with epoxy resin...is that possible? - Rob


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

Hi Rob

Glueing with epoxy should not be problem since this is just ceremic and glass in the main. Epoxy is usually used for that. Mike Wenzloff has just mentioned to me that they can be repaired with epoxy. So this is confirmation, I'd say.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## woodbloke (19 May 2007)

Derek - no worries then....will follow this one with interest - Rob


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## pam niedermayer (19 May 2007)

If you used Paypal, you simply ask Paypal to demand your money back, document your evidence, it's something of a buyer protection device. Just tell you seller that he has n days to come to x agreement or you'll report him and will get everything back, that you will return his stone when he sends you money for shipping. I've had to resort to this twice, amazingly enough two sellers within a month; and one seller agreed to terms much worse than I'd offered to start with.

As to the Shaptons, at the risk of setting myself up here for when I sell mine, I've found them difficult to use for western blades, too much stiction. Apparently the solution is to add furrows, which might also solve your problem by relieving some sort of central stress/movement. I don't think I had any warping problem, but I also stopped using them a year or so ago.

You may want to consider getting one of their lapping plates if you keep and use the Shaptons.

Pam


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

Thanks for those suggestions Pam. I have re-emailed the Seller, asking him to make contact. He might be away. I will give him until the end of the weekend before I word something more forceful. 

Many (most?) of my chisels are Japanese. And the remainder and many (most?) of my plane blades are hollow ground. Those that are not are microbeveled. So I am hoping that stiction will not be a factor.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

Some picture to illustrate my earlier notes:

The convex face (left to right):







and the concave reverse side:






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## beech1948 (19 May 2007)

Hi Derek,
I have Shapton stones from 2000, 5000, 8000 and a polishing stone of 12000. I bought these new in the USA but one at a time to test them out before buying others. I use a waterstone for coarser grinds upto about 1000 grit.

I have not had any of the problems you have described. Initially the stones were all a bit out of square but not more than 0.25 of a mm tested on a granite square and that only on the 2000 grit stone.

I have not seen any evidence of the flexing you have seen; but then I have not been looking for it. I will over the next week observe and check and get back to you. However, these stones are a man made chemical mix and should be very solid. I can't see how they should flex except by getting too thin and even then your bench or whatever you are resting them on should provide support.

I have also not experienced any of the "sticking" refered to in the earlier posts.

I think you have encountered a bit of a rogue on ebay. If you used Paypal then you can use them to recover your money by rejecting the goods as "not as described".

Good luck...I hope you win out here.

regards

Alan


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## Mike B (19 May 2007)

Derek 



> Another issue is whether any others have experienced this phenomena with their Shaptons, especially as they wear and get thinner? I just cannot see how they would/could sell them if that reacted this way. Shapton would go out of business.


 
Sorry if this is rather obvious but have you tried emailing Shapton directly about this?? If it is a common problem they must surely have some suggested fixes otherwise they would be struggling as you say... I found them quite helpful when I considered buying some, although I did not in the end due to shipping costs etc 

regards 
Mike


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## Jake (19 May 2007)

Unfortunately, I think caveat emptor applies, unless he said they were flat before the auction ended.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

> Sorry if this is rather obvious but have you tried emailing Shapton directly about this?



Mike, yes I did - even before the stones arrived. They have not replied. The irony is that the way I found the post by the seller was off the Shapton website and onto the linked forum! If anyone at Shapton actually read the forum, then they would be aware of the post.



> Unfortunately, I think caveat emptor applies, unless he said they were flat before the auction ended.



Jake, here is the eBay blurb. I have hilighted the section that deals with flatness.

_Nicely used Shapton Proffesional Series Sharpening Stone. 8000 Grit. They Come 15mm thick when new this one is still a fat 9.5mm. Still years and years of stone left. Great chance for a great deal on one of the best stones out there. These are a high grade proffesional stone. Comes with it's original storage container. See the Shapton website for specifics. Nice stone. *Cuts very fast and stays flat a long time.* Nice and large for wider plane irons. Leaves a very fine polish . Perfect for the last stone before finish planing wood. Works nicely with Lie Nielsen tools as well._

And here is the forum post I later came across:

_Hello. Haven't wanted to ruffle any feathers but I feel the glass series was more of a progression toward taming the proffesional series' tendency to warp/cup with changes in humidity. I mean the movement that I see occur after they have dried from use. 
I have an 8000 that is about 9mm thick . It is not usable because it has bowed about 1mm from one end to the other. This is from drying out business face down in the factory case as directed per instructions of use. It happens every time I put it away after use and has gotten progressively worse the thinner it has gotten. 
So I had thought this might be stone specific. Well, the 5000 does it,the 2000 does it, and the 15,000 does it. Which this unfortunately compounds as you have to remove so much material to get them flat,prematurly wearing a $500 flattening plate in the process. I mean I can use any of these stones until there is a dish in the center then store them as directed. Come back a couple of days later and the stone has bellied out to the point where it takes ALOT of flattening to get them back. I've been using these stones for almost 18 months now. 
I'm about to try laminating my pro series stones to glass or some gauged 1/4" thick stone tile though I have not decided which would be the best adhesive to use. And I would not want the stone to crack if it was held so fast as with epoxy or another rigid glue. 
They will bow back if you flip them over like a piece of wood dries to the top exposed surface. But this is a pain in the a##. And as of late more discouraging. I used to flatten the stones after I used them so when I first grabbed one it would be ready to go but then realized what was going on. I was having to re-flatten the flat stone prior to using. Wasting twce as much stone , twice as much DRLP. 
I like the consistancy of grit with the Shapton stones, the speed that they cut,and IMO they have more abrasives than most other stones making them work quicker. I just wish that they would stay flat between uses. 
I am assuming that the M series does not act this way. Anyone that may be using them can you tell me what you think they might be attached to the bases with? Do they fell the same and cut as fast? 
I've felt the Glass Stone series was kinda odd with half the stone for 2/3 the price. And I think somewhere on the forum it was said they were more "stable" And you could use them down to the end. Which might be the advantage if the other option is to throw them out after they are half done. 
Well, anyone else have these expiriences? _
Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Jake (19 May 2007)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Jake, here is the eBay blurb. I have hilighted the section that deals with flatness.
> 
> _*Cuts very fast and stays flat a long time.* _
> 
> Derek



Clearly a lie then!


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## pam niedermayer (19 May 2007)

beech1948":24ztsc39 said:


> I have Shapton stones from 2000, 5000, 8000 and a polishing stone of 12000. I bought these new in the USA but one at a time to test them out before buying others. I use a waterstone for coarser grinds upto about 1000 grit.



Alan, which series do you have? I'm talking about the Professional series.

Pam


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 May 2007)

Well, I have now had a little correspondence with the seller. who made it clear that he will not negotiate a deal. His terms would be laughable if it were not for the fact that he is serious. I find him arrogant and condescending.

I will let you judge for yourselves, and I am interested in your comments ... and quite prepared to take your criticism, if this is what you feel. So here are three emails, the first from the seller, the second my reply, and the third his answer.

_Hello Dereck, Please don't send anymore messages with attachments on them. My browser will put them in the junk mail.

Well, my first reaction is to say no. For a couple of reasons.

ALL Pro Series Shapton move when made wet and as they dry. I've owned 4 of them . They don't start until they get to be about 13mm, then little by little as the stone wears they will move more. This is NOT just that one stone. The funny thing is , when I had first contacted Shapton here in the US, they said they had NEVER heard of such a thing. O.k. fine.

Let me say Shapton USA is one guy, in a woodworking shop that sells tools and stones from it, aside from doing some woodworking and a couple of workshops a year. After corresponding with others about Shapton products , I found not only do all Shaptons move but others have spoken with this ONE guy and told them the SAME thing, "hmmmm, I've never heard that before." Bull ^#&@! Not only would he not admit it but he would not admit that others, one a good friend of mine, had called him and question him of the matter. So, if Shapton told you that they should be moving..... What do you think.

So I waited a while, months or more, and called him back and called him on it. He would kinda agree. But also offered that maybe I should laminated the stone to a base. But did not offer to take them back.

This is where I think the evolution of the Glass Stones Shapton started. The Pro Series moved so they started laminating thin pieces of stone to laminated glass plates. Started giving less than half the stone to pay for manufacture cost of laminating. Does this make them a bad product ,no. They may be going through growing pains in development but still ,after flattening the stone, they stay flatter while sharpening on them than any, king stone or any others including Bester, etc.... And they are very finely graded. They just don't work well with my Japanese planes and chisels.

So What I'm saying is that if the stone has bowed some from differing climates do shipping across to the other side of the planet, which was an exception that I granted at your request, against my US SHIPPING ONLY policy, movement certainly should be expected. especially with a Shapton Pro Series Stone. You really should have researched the product prior to bidding and certainly prior to paying and me shipping.
I do have a NO RETURN POLICY, USED TOOLS , SOLD AS IS , NO RETURNS, ASK ANY QUESTIONS PRIOR TO BIDDING, ALL SALES ARE FINAL, policy.

Shipping insurance was optional at the desretion of the buyer, any damages occuring from shipping are the buyer's responsiblity.

The stone were accurately described with supporting photos. And they starting bid of $4.99 was very resonable for a $ 110.00 stone with over 63% of useable stone remaining.

Which also makes me wonder, I'm assuming that you are an expirienced woodworker. Since you said something about kings or something. At what point would you have to laminated a King to a base? If I had a king stone that was only 9.5 mm thick I would be making a base for it soon enough out of fear of it breaking. Never mind the fact that the Shapton Pro Series is a resin bond and they will also flex under pressure as they get too thin. At 9mm you will need a base regardless. And as Shapton had directed me this should negate any of the movement that is inherent to those stone as they get thin.

All Shaptons move. You can flatten it with your diamond plate and planty of water, scratch pencil marks all over the surface , let it dry over night and when you go to rub the diamond plate over the surface again you wil see what I mean. They only stone that I kept and am looking for a replacement is the 15,000. That stone is 12mm thich . I only flatten it just before use. It will move some in as it sits after I flatten it, during the time it takes me to go up through the grits to get to it. I've rubbed pencil and flattened and check and scribbled some more a while back trying to figure all this out. You have to flatten them just before use. Don't flatten them before going to bed and hoping they will be flat in the morning. But I don't know about where you are. Here we have major changes in relative humidity. Maybe somewhere where the RH is more consistant the stone will move less. I wouldn't have any expirience with that.

They always seem to bow the ends up. Like wood will. If a stone is bowed in the direction that you don't want, then simply wet it, flip it over and let it dry over night. Then you should be able to flatten it out.

But as a woodworker I feel for you and would offer to try and make thing right. First it is not my fault you did not follow bidding instructions. ASK BEFORE BIDDING. or that the shipping is outrageous to the AU, US SHIPPING ONLY. or that your product may have been damaged during shipping BUYER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR INSURANCE THEY ARE YOUR TOOLS. or that you paid $48 for a stone i listed at a fair $4.99.

I would offer to you as a fellow wood rat, that you send it back with insurance. I will not acceot the package or open it ,unless it is insured and has a delivery confirmation number. You are responsible for shipping , insurance, delivery confirmation etc.... You would also have to agree to pay all the associated cost that I've had to pay for the transaction ,pay pal,and relisting the item and the original listing cost ,since you neglected bidding instruction. You really should have asked before bidding. All this would never have come to this. I don't know what all that comes too and won't know until it shows up here and I relist it.

If all the above requirements are satisfied then and only then will I refund the remainder of the purchase price.

My advice to you which is what I do when I recieve an old tool,used as is, and don't want it after seeing it , is to relist it. At least some one else will be paying for the shipping the next time around.

I will say though , you should get it fitted for a base and start to use it. A base for that thickness of stone is really nessesary. You'll have to agree, I really don't see how you could not. And as an expirienced woodworker you sould have thought of that as well. You will probably really enjoy the stone. Give it a chance, make a base and use it. It has another 4-5 years of material left in every day woodshop use.

Regards,Correy_



Hi Correy

I hope that we can work this out, but your terms are unreasonable as they stand. From my side I responded to an eBay description that stated that the 8000 stone was flat. The 5000 arrived flat, so I cannot agree that a stone moves as a result of travel. The nature of the problem is exactly as you posted in the Japanese Woodworking Forum. To quote, "I have an 8000 that is about 9mm thick . It is not usable because it has bowed about 1mm from one end to the other. This is from drying out business face down in the factory case as directed per instructions of use. It happens every time I put it away after use and has gotten progressively worse the thinner it has gotten."

None of this was mentioned in your eBay auction. If it had been I would not have bid on the stone. You wrote, 

_"Nicely used Shapton Proffesional Series Sharpening Stone. 8000 Grit. They Come 15mm thick when new this one is still a fat 9.5mm. Still years and years of stone left. Great chance for a great deal on one of the best stones out there. These are a high grade proffesional stone. Comes with it's original storage container. See the Shapton website for specifics. Nice stone. Cuts very fast *and stays flat a long time *. Nice and large for wider plane irons. Leaves a very fine polish . Perfect for the last stone before finish planing wood. Works nicely with Lie Nielsen tools as well. _(my highlight)

I am an experienced woodworker with a great deal of experience - some would say expertise - in sharpening. I have written many articles on the subject. I also have many friends who are professional woodworkers who use Shapton waterstones, and they refute all you say. 

You feel that you should not be out of pocket for the transaction, and I feel that I should also not be out of pocket. If I were to complain to Paypal (that your advertising was not factual), they would take action. I hope that it does not come to this.

I am prepared to have a go at fixing the 8000 stone (with epoxy and a glass backing), and will bear responsibility for the outcome, but I would like you to contribute to the expenses of this (since otherwise I may as well have purchased a new stone to begin with), with a refund of $20 made through Paypal. This is a lot less than you stand to lose if Paypal make you refund all shipping expenses. 

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards

Derek



_Dereck, I never said the stone was flat in the advertisement. I said it will stay flat along time not that it will show up on your door flat out of the box. You have written articles on the subject know that a stone that stays along time refers to how a stone wears during use. You agree that all stones need to be flattened prior to use. I will say that all Shapton Pro Series Stone move. I an not making this up. If this is a false statement then why do all my stones and others from freinds move as well? How thick are your friends stones? Not that I intend on continueing this much further.....

Shapton told me demographicly that there customers are DYIers and would not use the stones to the point where they would ever see any problem. Doesn't make much allowance for us that use these tools daily.

All the information I listed in the auction was factual. You need to educate your self prior to bidding and follow bidding instructions. I offered for you to return the item I did not offer to bargain with you about it. Now you even seem that you willing to use the stone.... If you would have to mount it to a block regardless ,because of thickness, and you fix it to the block, it stops moving, whats the problem? You'll have to do it to the other one eventually as well. Just like I'm about to with the 15,000.

Return the stone and I will refund you the remaining amount minus charges. This is a concession I will give you. But you must follow the previous outlined return policy. I have not been unreasonable.You will be expected to put the stone in the mail immediately.

When you buy a SOLD AS IS, ALL SALES ARE FINAL, ASK BFORE BIDDING, you are expected. If your desicion to want to keep the item is based apon my personal opinion of and item then you should have asked before bidding, certainly prior to auction close so your could still have retracted your bid. I am not satisfied with refunding you partial $ on a stone you would have had to mount to a base regardless, and now intend to and wil continue to use. Which you just stated. Which I would then forward to paypal as well.

Regards Correy_

For reference, here is thel ink to the eBay auction.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... IBSA:AU:11

I guess you can tell that this is not a transaction that will end with any mutual satisfaction! Avoid this seller at all costs.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bainzy (19 May 2007)

Why would he say "stays flat a long time", and then in his reply to your email say "Don't flatten them before going to bed and hoping they will be flat in the morning"? Having said that, neither of you are being unreasonable, seems like both parties genuinely don't believe it's their fault. If I were the seller in this case, I think I'd probably offer a US$10-15 refund looking at what the item sold for.


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## Vormulac (19 May 2007)

Hi Derek,

Personally, I would start to talk to paypal about getting your money back. He has, by his own pen admitted in that forum entry that the stone was not usable. I don't like the tone of his emails any more than you, and he refers to his various policies concerning returns etc, without actually stating them in his auction listing. He's clearly dishonest and he's getting defensive because you found him out.
It's people like that that give ebay a bad name, a shame you had to be on the receiving end 

V.


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## pam niedermayer (20 May 2007)

Bainzy":3o8ob7d9 said:


> Why would he say "stays flat a long time", and then in his reply to your email say "Don't flatten them before going to bed and hoping they will be flat in the morning"? Having said that, neither of you are being unreasonable, seems like both parties genuinely don't believe it's their fault. If I were the seller in this case, I think I'd probably offer a US$10-15 refund looking at what the item sold for.



I don't think Correy genuinely thinks it's not his fault. He hangs around the Hiraide forum. He was trying to unload one of his losers at someone else's expense.

Derek, you've more than paid for a new stone in time and money at this point. I'd dump him on Paypal. Indeed, the "stays flat a long time" is a lie, out and out, stop wasting your time being fair and nice.

What's more, you may want to raise this issue on several other fora, time for Harrelson to back what he sells or stop being able to sell them.

Pam


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## pam niedermayer (20 May 2007)

Forgot to mention that So sells Shaptons in Oz, http://www.japan-tool.com/, very knowledgeable, may have some thoughts to offer.

Pam


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 May 2007)

> Personally, I would start to talk to paypal about getting your money back.





> you may want to raise this issue on several other fora



Pam, Vormulac and all

I have only discuused this matter here and on WoodNet. Here because I always value the rational and objective opinion of the forum, and WoodNet because there are more users there to comment on the reality of the remarks. I was informed on WoodNet that Correy is a "liar" but also that it would not be possible to claim back from Paypal because of the wording of the ad. 

The amount of money is not the big factor for me. I think that he is a arrogant twit but the suggestion to laminate the stone to glass has merit, and I am prepared to try this out. What I want, however, is his acknowledgement that his auction ad was inaccurate (fat chance!) and that he will recompence me for the cost and effort to "fix" the apparently unnecessary fix, if his ad is to be believed (again fat chance). 

I was after a cheap way of trying out the Shapton 8000. They are not sold in Australia, very expensive to import (at this level of grit), and I did speak with So (Japan-Tool.com), from whom I have bought before, but he does not have any - essentially he is selling his own items (some which he bought to trial), not importing stock to sell. This 8000 still represents a cheap way to try out the stone, and so I will go ahead and fix it. What I am thinking of doing is placing a link to the Hiraide forum to both here and WoodNet for all to see. I think that will be better justice than complaining to Paypal or eBay. What do you think?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## pam niedermayer (20 May 2007)

Well, if you're willing to pay shipping, you can use my 8000. I've been moving to natural waterstones, so probably won't ever use it again. Would be interesting to wear it down enough to see if it's Shapton or just Correy's Shapton.

I didn't know that So wasn't selling new Shaptons; but I'd bet he'd know, or know people who know, how to laminate one.

Pam


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 May 2007)

Hi Pam

My sincere thanks for the most generous offer. I may take you up on it, but I must admit to being curious to find out what happens to "my" 8000 first (so I have just spent a little time laminating it in the interest of science! No going back now). 

Just to clarify what So told me - he has sold new, unused Shaptons on eBay (he recently sold a 1000 and 2000 Professional series). However, my understanding was that he acquired these for himself, therefore he does not get in "stock" to re-sell on. He is a super nice guy and has been very happy to share his knowledge, especially on the Ubeaut forum.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=111

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 May 2007)

If you are still tuned in and wondering about the condition of the 8000 stone post "fix", here is an update.

I used two-part slow setting epoxy to attach a 4mm section of float glass to the face side of the stone. 4mm because this was available (6mm was not) at the glazier. This is definitely stiff enough for the purpose. Attachment was from the face side since this was convex, and a convex shape is near impossible to flatten. The rear was concave and this was the best bet to get flat.

Here is the 8000 after lamination and flattening.







The stone was flattened with 180 grit sandpaper on a glass sheet. This probably removed about 1mm from the ends to level the stone, so the overall thickness was not effected (measured 9mm at centre). 

I do have concerns about the condition of the stone. After flattening, which was done dry, both ends displayed a series of crazes in the surface of the stone. This was not present in the centre third of the stone.






For comparison, these were not present in the 5000:






This suggests that there has been movement in these areas - flex? This stone most likely has had some strange moments in its life. While this may be what was reported by the seller in his posts to the Hirade forum, he certainly did not let on about this in the eBay advert.

I spent some time this Sunday afternoon grinding and honing 2 thick A2 blades for a LN #4 1/2 (both hollow ground then honed) and 5 large Japanese paring chisels (i.e. flat faces). I can say that the stones appeared to work well in this session. I do not know if they will display any wierd characteristics or just break down. Only time will tell. I like the hardness of these stones - they give more feedback than the soft King stones. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## pam niedermayer (20 May 2007)

Interesting. I'd say the crazing shows some interior tension that might, just might, be ameloriated by ploughing a few thin furrows in the middle. These wouldn't harm the stone in any way, nor its performance.

Pam


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 May 2007)

Hi Pam

I've been talking with So and it's his guess that the cracks are due to the adhesive failing as a result of the stone being left too long in water. He does not see a long future for the 8000 stone.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## pam niedermayer (21 May 2007)

Aha, maybe that's what Correy and his little buddies did that caused the problem to start with, didn't read the instructions.

Pam


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## David C (22 May 2007)

Yes, the Shapton instructions are quite intimidating.

David C


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## pam niedermayer (23 May 2007)

Yes, they are, David, what with being Japanese to non-existent; but Harrelson told me when I bought them not to soak them, this is fairly common knowledge.

Pam


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