# Rob Cosman's winding sticks



## Steliz (6 Apr 2019)

I just saw this in an email and nearly spat my vino on the keyboard.

https://robcosman.com/products/rob-cosm ... ing-sticks


----------



## thetyreman (6 Apr 2019)

for YOU just $174.95! :shock: I'll keep my aluminium veritas ones for now thanks


----------



## Trevanion (6 Apr 2019)

Remember that this guy takes one of his chisels and just grinds a 17-degree angle (a literal 20-second job including turning the grinder on) on the cutting end and charges $30 more for it.

Never trust a man who used the word "Cosmanised" :lol:


----------



## scooby (6 Apr 2019)

Was the email dated 1st of April by any chance? 

:shock: and I thought his saws were a rip off. No doubt, there will be plenty daft enough to buy them.
Does he actually use winding sticks? I saw one of his videos where he was flattening a piece and just kept using his bench to check it was flat. He made the whole process last 40 mins+ and it still wasn't flat.


----------



## woodbloke66 (6 Apr 2019)

A pair of winding sticks were the first thing I ever made for the 'shop over 40 years ago and I still use them. It takes all of about 15 minutes (if that) to knock up a set; just find a decent bit of stable timber and you're sorted. I used mahogany for mine but it's not crucial as long as it won't move - Rob


----------



## Phil Pascoe (6 Apr 2019)

https://robcosman.com/products/rob-cosm ... 4033131558
These have to lunacy ............ but then, people buy bench hooks.


----------



## custard (7 Apr 2019)

Why's everyone so indignant, I just don't see a problem here.

If someone is prepared to spend £150 on winding sticks then that's absolutely their business, we're all free to spend our money anyway we like.

And as for Rob Cosman, well if someone really is prepared to spend £150 on winding sticks, then the first rule of economics suggests that's a demand that is absolutely guaranteed to be met, so why not by him! 

And actually, looking at all the hand work that's gone into those winding sticks, £150 isn't that unreasonable. 

What's more it's in the nature of simple devices like winding sticks for the pricing to be pretty binary and out at the extremes. Think about it, there are really only two valid designs for winding sticks. Either fully loaded with mother of pearl sighting spots, brass alignment pegs, torrified wood...and then charge £150. Or you rip down some scrap bits of ply and charge £1.50. Anything in the middle is a bit pointless.


----------



## Noel (7 Apr 2019)

scooby":1tuz2ixi said:


> Was the email dated 1st of April by any chance?
> 
> :shock: and I thought his saws were a rip off.



Arn't they cross cut?

Met the guy years go at an Axminster show, nice enough then but seems to have drifted to a parallel universe in the intervening years going by his videos. But fair play to him if he can get folk to part with such sums.


----------



## custard (7 Apr 2019)

Noel":qe4t5p64 said:


> Arn't they cross cut?


----------



## Jacob (7 Apr 2019)

I want to be torrified when I die.


----------



## Doug B (7 Apr 2019)

It’s the same with all these gurus especially the Americans their acolytes don’t appear to care what things cost they have to have the latest bit of merchandise.
I noticed Swartz has recently bought out a chore coat, a cotten shirt that retails at the bargain price of $185.00 though if you’re looking for extra large they’re sold out, so presumably plenty of takers.
Clearly if you can build up a faithful following there’s money to be made & good luck to them, beats hard graft.


----------



## Doug B (7 Apr 2019)

Jacob":vycv7d3k said:


> I want to be torrified when I die.



Have you told Pam :-k


----------



## Fitzroy (7 Apr 2019)

Jacob":2li8bl26 said:


> I want to be torrified when I die.



Personally I have terrible health anxiety which means I’m torrified of dying. 

Fitz. 

Ps. If you don’t laugh you cry.


----------



## Droogs (7 Apr 2019)

Roll on the Zombie apocalypse then Jacob


----------



## scooby (7 Apr 2019)

Noel":19392eq2 said:


> scooby":19392eq2 said:
> 
> 
> > Was the email dated 1st of April by any chance?
> ...


----------



## Jacob (7 Apr 2019)

Doug B":1n97trcu said:


> ..... a cotton shirt that retails at the bargain price of $185.00 though if you’re looking for extra large they’re sold out, so presumably plenty of takers......


It'll be those fat f....rs with loadsa dosh. Up the revolution!
Might get Pamela on the job - she's just been given an overlocker and we are wondering about commercial possibilities, plane socks and the like.


----------



## Bm101 (7 Apr 2019)

I have no real opinion on these in the same way I have no real opinion on Aston Martins. 
If I had enough money to buy this stuff I wouldn't be worrying about buying one. 
It's a non existent problematic decision I will never be in the position to have to worry about.

Agreed it's not a necessary purchase but then neither is most stuff. Why buy coffee when you can live off water? Why buy better coffee when cheap coffee is coffee? Why buy super rare expensive coffee with beans so rare they have to be eaten by civet cats and s*at out first?
It's not about relative cost, it's about value and worth. And that's variable.

When people regularly post those ever so regular posts about people selling a lamp made from an old blowlamp, or a deckchair with one leg painted orange or a pallet with coasters bolted on and a glass top going for insane prices I look at everyone going mad and getting irate and I don't think that. Probably because I don't work hard _making_ decent quality stuff for a living.
What I honestly think is this:
'Why do I get out of bed at 4am and drive to London, hang off a 10mm rope 100+ meters in the air, freeze in winter, cook in summer, deal with eeijits everyday, RAMs, building managers who went on a two hour course about rope access once and think they know more than my 20 year invested level 3 experience to do a job I don't think I have ever once been thanked for, that will never fulfil me other than financially.....

.... When I could make money selling this tat to people with more money than sense and still have a day or two spare to make stuff I am proud of each week. 
(I know I am underestimating the time invested in selling/ marketing etc. Just having a rant.)

This (Cosman) stuff might be frivolous and over priced but it's not being sold in an underhand way. Nobody is scamming anyone. Personally I don't see any issue. No one has to buy it. It works and is of good quality if unnecessary.

Genuine question, back on track.
Why is there a circle sight added in the middle at the _bottom_ of the winding stick. What's the utilitarian purpose of that if any?

Cheers,
Chris.


----------



## custard (7 Apr 2019)

Bm101":spkhcn54 said:


> Why is there a circle sight added in the middle at the _bottom_ of the winding stick. What's the utilitarian purpose of that if any?



It's to quickly and precisely centre both winding sticks on the workpiece...that and it looks good!


----------



## Bm101 (7 Apr 2019)

A solution so obvious I didn't dream it could be necessary. We live and learn.
Thanks as always Custard.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (7 Apr 2019)

It was shown in his little video.


----------



## Bm101 (7 Apr 2019)

Phil. I never watched the video.
More fool me it seems. 
Cheers
Chris


----------



## scooby (7 Apr 2019)

Bm101":wsravjpo said:


> A solution so obvious I didn't dream it could be necessary. We live and learn.
> Thanks as always Custard.



Its pretty handy, in my experience. I went with the cheap/quick option on the sticks I made ages ago... a pencil line :|


----------



## Jacob (7 Apr 2019)

Me too. Plus a little nick into top middle. 
Didn't occur to me to add brass knobs, erotic carvings, inlay ivory, ebony, opals, and then to torrify the whole caboodle. I certainly will do next time!


----------



## Bodgers (7 Apr 2019)

Doug B":2xgzinjj said:


> It’s the same with all these gurus especially the Americans their acolytes don’t appear to care what things cost they have to have the latest bit of merchandise.
> I noticed Swartz has recently bought out a chore coat, a cotten shirt that retails at the bargain price of $185.00 though if you’re looking for extra large they’re sold out, so presumably plenty of takers.
> Clearly if you can build up a faithful following there’s money to be made & good luck to them, beats hard graft.



Chore coat is a bit more than a shirt. The material is a fair bit thicker. Most of them use that "Duck Canvas" which isn't cheap.

I thought it was expensive, but when I googled around decent ones didn't really come much below £100.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Doug B (7 Apr 2019)

Jacob":2cn38655 said:


> Doug B":2cn38655 said:
> 
> 
> > ..... a cotton shirt that retails at the bargain price of $185.00 though if you’re looking for extra large they’re sold out, so presumably plenty of takers......
> ...



Rounded bevel edge protectors, I can see it now they’ll be all the rage, I’ve some jeans that need taking in, with what needs removing you could make denim ones :lol: 

At Crich tomorrow fitting oak fence posts think Brian wants to finish me off :shock: :-?


----------



## Doug B (7 Apr 2019)

Bodgers":fiz0twvk said:


> Doug B":fiz0twvk said:
> 
> 
> > It’s the same with all these gurus especially the Americans their acolytes don’t appear to care what things cost they have to have the latest bit of merchandise.
> ...




I know it’s a bargain I’ve read Chris’s own review


----------



## SMALMALEKI (9 Apr 2019)

On this topic I would like to know if you prefer workshop made wooden winding sticks or aluminium ones? 
I made a pair last summer. As a Jobby woodworker I don’t get chance to get to the garage everyday. 
Today I found out my winding sticks have gone wonky. They were oiled and finished so I can’t understand all the changes. 

Any advice on how to keep them? 

Thank you


----------



## Bodgers (9 Apr 2019)

SMALMALEKI":1n65msl7 said:


> On this topic I would like to know if you prefer workshop made wooden winding sticks or aluminium ones?
> I made a pair last summer. As a Jobby woodworker I don’t get chance to get to the garage everyday.
> Today I found out my winding sticks have gone wonky. They were oiled and finished so I can’t understand all the changes.
> 
> ...


What wood? It helps the stagger the milling a day or two after when cutting the stock down into thinner pieces for winding sticks.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## SMALMALEKI (9 Apr 2019)

It is beech wood. It was off cut from my bench top timbers.


----------



## Jacob (9 Apr 2019)

SMALMALEKI":2k0ka437 said:


> ..
> Any advice on how to keep them?
> 
> ...


Warm and dry, not in the garage.


----------



## TFrench (15 Apr 2019)

Aluminium ones. But I'm from a metalwork background :lol:


----------



## AndyT (15 Apr 2019)

I also like my aluminium ones. They were two spare straight bits from a shower rail kit. Very straight, very stable. Zero cost.


----------



## Rorschach (15 Apr 2019)

I was thinking about making a pair from some aluminium angle I have. Should do the job I think. Will need to add some kind of markers on the ends though.


----------



## AndyT (15 Apr 2019)

At the risk of sounding really cheap, I added contrasting corners using a black marker pen. Just a suggestion, naturally.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (15 Apr 2019)

K.I.S.S.


----------



## Rorschach (16 Apr 2019)

AndyT":1qvft5z9 said:


> At the risk of sounding really cheap, I added contrasting corners using a black marker pen. Just a suggestion, naturally.



And here was me thinking electrical tape was a bodge :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery (16 Apr 2019)

When I made mine, on here somewhere, I made one solid piece and then deep ripped it. I figured that if there was going to be any movement at least both halves would move in the same way by the same amount.


----------



## clanger (16 Apr 2019)

> At the risk of sounding really cheap, I added contrasting corners using a black marker pen.



Mine are proper posh -- I used insulating tape. One in Red and one in Blue. In that way, it makes it easier to see the rear stick as it contrasts with the front one.


----------



## AndyT (16 Apr 2019)

I can see an affordable upgrade coming my way soon... :wink:


----------



## Jacob (16 Apr 2019)

clanger":3gnxwwq0 said:


> > At the risk of sounding really cheap, I added contrasting corners using a black marker pen.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine are proper posh -- I used insulating tape. One in Red and one in Blue. In that way, it makes it easier to see the rear stick as it contrasts with the front one.


If you had red and green on the ends you could tell port and starboard. I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner.


----------



## SMALMALEKI (16 Apr 2019)

Steve Maskery":35rcv6nl said:


> When I made mine, on here somewhere, I made one solid piece and then deep ripped it. I figured that if there was going to be any movement at least both halves would move in the same way by the same amount.




My first sticks were made from one piece as well. But they moved in different areas. I will try to salvage them again.


----------



## Mr_Pea (16 Apr 2019)

Just noticed Philly Planes sells them for £49 plus shipping

Winding Sticks are used to detect twist (or “wind”) in a board. When flattening a piece of timber it is possible to plane it smooth but for the board to still be twisted.

Our Winding Sticks are made from quartersawn Walnut. One of the pair has a Maple inlay to make sighting easier and both sticks have a mother-of-pearl “centre dot”. They are hand planed to make a matched pair – please store them safely when not in use to maintain their accuracy.

Once you begin to check your work with Winding Sticks you’ll notice a definite increase in precision – components will fit together tighter and you’ll find that it is easier to glue up projects as you need much less clamping pressure. 

Price £49 plus shipping.


----------



## rafezetter (16 Apr 2019)

Jacob":1ch6nzvb said:


> I want to be torrified when I die.


Be careful who you say that to Jacob, you might end up being killed by a dyslexic axe murder.

Although it does seem crazy for that price - Custards points are spot on, if you can, why not?

Not sure about the "15 minutes to make" though, but that speaks more to my lack of abilities.

What do ppl think about his Kerf X-10?


----------



## Bm101 (16 Apr 2019)

https://robcosman.com/products/rob-cosmans-kerf-x-10

Had to google it. Looks neat!
$100 is about 75 quid. 
Think it would be so easy to make it would be criminal to buy one. You could make this with a bbq, some lumpwood charcoal,a hairdryer a hacksaw some spare brass and steel stock and some sandpaper. Epoxy maybe or peined rod.
Materials under a tenner if you have the other bits. Couple of hours give or take to make and fit for an amateur with bare minimum of hand tools.
Whereas Bill Carter showed people how to grind flat an old chisel for free as a scraper and said it wasn't his idea but (re) popularised it for the love of sharing knowledge, this guy would have you believe you need to buy a professionally blunted chisel with a mahogany handle and while you're at it let me charge you an 300% markup for blunting it for you! 
He's not a monster though. In real life I'm sure he could well be a lovely lovely guy.
Lets be straight up here. This is a First World Problem lol.
He's not selling women into the sex trade or pedalling drugs to children. 
Said it before, if someone chooses to buy into that school of thought that's up to them. He's not conning anyone except those who choose to buy into it. A fool and his money etc.
That looks like a handy tool. Might make one and sell it for £50.  If I can make and sell 4 a day I'd take that. :wink: 
Fair play to the man for making a living. Wish I was doing it.

Edit: I'm going to buy a whack load of worthless brass back saws on ebay. Ready made Y-11's. Yep Y-11's.


----------



## Steve Maskery (16 Apr 2019)

Bm101":hl0uunke said:


> If I can make and sell 4 a day I'd take that.



Making, no problem. Good luck with the selling!


----------



## Bm101 (16 Apr 2019)

What I need is Free Delivery Steve. It's all honey after that mate.


----------



## woodbloke66 (27 Apr 2019)

Steve Maskery":3n6iuenw said:


> Bm101":3n6iuenw said:
> 
> 
> > If I can make and sell 4 a day I'd take that.
> ...


There's a chap on InstaG (Liam Rickaby) who only makes these things and can't get rid of them quick enough...and he charges more than Philly - Rob


----------

