# One for the Lawyers



## spadge (18 Jul 2007)

Hi,

Having my terrace house reroofed. I am on a slight slope so there is a small gable end (approx 2 feet high) between the properties on both sides.
The roofer will be relacing all the flashings on "my" side of my chimney. 
The owner of the adjoining house has come round to say the flashings on "his" side of my chimney need replacing because there is damp in his loft (he showed me where damp has affected and cracked the plaster in the loft).
My question is am I legally responsible for the flashing on "his" side of my chimney?
No problem if I am but the guy concerned is a lawyer and it's obvious he expects me to pay to have it done so wondered where I stood?

Cheers

Grahame


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## Newbie_Neil (18 Jul 2007)

Hi Grahame

I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question.

However, taking it to it's logical conclusion if you were responsible for the flashing on the chimney, wouldn't you also be responsible for the damp and the plaster etc.?

Just a thought.

Neil


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## Russell (18 Jul 2007)

I would have thought that its his responsibility as the flashing is connecting to his roof and would not be required if his roof was not there


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## mr (18 Jul 2007)

Having just had exactly that problem - damp attic/ leaky flashing I paid for remedial work done to my property only - ie my half of the chimney, my attic etc. Cost a pretty penny too in excess of £4K for the lot so I would have been "unwilling" to pay for any work the neighbours wanted doing as well. 

Cheers Mike


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jul 2007)

Sounds to me like your neighbour is a rather crafty lawyer (aren't they all). If you get your roofer to do his flashing and, in the process, some damage is caused to his roof, he'll probably hold you responsible as well.

I'd say you do yours and let him do his.

Cheers :wink:


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## kafkaian (18 Jul 2007)

Paul Chapman":37oh7rvg said:


> Sounds to me like your neighbour is a rather crafty lawyer (aren't they all). If you get your roofer to do his flashing and, in the process, some damage is caused to his roof, he'll probably hold you responsible as well.
> 
> I'd say you do yours and let him do his.
> 
> Cheers :wink:



I'd agree, status quo always the best way to go with these things IMHO but if you are altruistically minded and if the costs are minimal in doing his side, the other thing to do would be to get him to sign a disclaimer or indemnity clause.

Ultimately, his house is attached to your chimney as much as the other way around. I'd be inclined to tell him to sling his hook - in a very conciliatory and neighbourly manner of course


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## White House Workshop (18 Jul 2007)

You could be just as crafty and ask your roofer to pop round and give him a quote to do his side of the chimney while he's up there...


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## beejay (18 Jul 2007)

I would strongly suggest : His roof, his part of the chimney, his damp, his problem. Dont even enter into discussions with him on this one.
regards,
beejay


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## beejay (18 Jul 2007)

I meant also to suggest that your builder points out the damage to the neighbours side as being there before he started and that the damage didnt have anything to do with your side of then chimney. Pics might also prove useful just in case.
beejay


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## the_g_ster (18 Jul 2007)

I agree with Beejay.

He should know better, I would suggest that he engages the builder directly and agrees a small sum to correct the flashing.


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## Mike.C (18 Jul 2007)

Hi Grahame, If he has a fire place (or there was one there originally) on the same wall as the chimney, then he is responsible for his side. He is trying it on. Ask him where the smoke would exit if he was to light the fire.

Most terrace houses are exactly the same as the house next door, or they would have been when they were first built, so its odds on his is the same as yours.

I live in a terrace house and we have 4 fires (2 upstairs and 2 down) on the same wall, as does our next door neighbour, and these 8 fires all run into the same huge chimney stack on the roof. We also have the same on the other side of the house.

Let us know how you get on.

Cheers

Mike


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## ike (18 Jul 2007)

> "his" side of my chimney


.

'my' - he said 'my' whereas it is 'the' (presuming the chimmey is centred on the party wall and has flues to both houses). That one little word makes the difference.

He would have to prove that the damp is down to the state of the roof on your side of the _centre line _of the party wall in order to claim off your insurer. Not a hope cos he's clearly a t****r. Just tell im sorry it's his problem and suggest your roofer could help him out.

Ike


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## NickWelford (18 Jul 2007)

If the chimney is a shared resource then the cost of maintenance falls to both of you. If it is entirely yours, then you are probably responsible. These things are usually noted in deeds or in the contract when you bought the property. Ask him for half the total cost ........


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## spadge (18 Jul 2007)

Newbie_Neil":3mx3dkdp said:


> Hi Grahame
> 
> I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question.
> 
> ...



Thanks for all the replies

Whether I am responsible or not the damp in his loft has obviously been there a long time and the damage to the plaster is also obviously old so if he didn't tell me about it the first time the damp appeared there is no way I going to pay for any subsequent internal repairs to plaster.

The chimney only has a chimney breast, flues and fireplaces in my house i.e. on "his" side of the chimney there is a plain party wall. "His" chimney is the same arrangement but on the other side of the house. Chimneys on all the houses in the row are arranged in the same way.

Regarding the flashing on the chimney I have given his number to my roofer so he can ring him to sort it out. I'll leave it to them and see whether or not the neighbour comes back to me for any money.
In the meantime I will see what the deeds say about responsibility.

Cheers

Grahame


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## Gill (18 Jul 2007)

Check the property's title deeds to see if they mention responsibility for party boundaries.

Gill


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## llangatwgnedd (18 Jul 2007)

Please post back the outcome, as my niece has this type of chimney i.e. her chimney exclusively vents on a party wall, and I would like to know the legal position.


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## Jake (18 Jul 2007)

Can you post a picture, as I can't build a mental image of how this chimney, his flashing, and the party wall interact at all. Without a better understanding of that, I don't see how anyone can leap to judgment, especially one based on your neighbour's occupation. One thing you do learn as a lawyer.


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## JFC (18 Jul 2007)

> The chimney only has a chimney breast, flues and fireplaces in my house i.e. on "his" side of the chimney there is a plain party wall. "His" chimney is the same arrangement but on the other side of the house. Chimneys on all the houses in the row are arranged in the same way.



You either have it wrong or that was one rich thick bricklayer !!!!
Myself i think you have it wrong but you live there i dont . Even so the chimney is part of the party wall so giving next door a party wall agreement TELLING him you are going to be doing work on and around the PARTY wall will let him know that his side is his problem and you know it is .


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## devonwoody (19 Jul 2007)

Send him a link to this forum thread.


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## spadge (19 Jul 2007)

As Alice in Wonderland said:-

"Just because you don't understand what I say doesn't mean I don't know what I said!." :wink: 

So here is a pic.

The roof is my neighbours, the chimney mine. As part of the reroofing my roofer is replacing all the flashing on the left of the chimney (as you look at it) and on my gable end. The bit that may be in dispute is the flashing you can see on the right of the chimney i.e. the seal between "my" chimney and "his" roof.
The right side of the chimney in my neighbours just becomes part of a plain party wall . The chimney breast is in my house. His fireplaces are on his chimney (which is out of shot to the right).

Hope this is as clear as mud.


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## StevieB (19 Jul 2007)

From that picture I would be telling him to take a hike. It doesnt matter what his roof butts up to, the flashing is part of his roof and in no way forms part of yours. If he has a leak it is up to him to fix it would be my opinion.

Steve.


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## kafkaian (19 Jul 2007)

I'm sorry but this is a non-issue. It's his problem. If anything, and if this chimney does not form part of a party wall, he should be worried that's he's not undermining your home not the other way around.


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## ike (19 Jul 2007)

It isn't solely 'your' chimney though, even if though, it is for all practical use and intruding on your internal space. The chimney is integral with the party wall for which there is equal shared responsibility. As the picture shows the centreline of the party wall indicates that about 3/4 of the chimney stack is on 'your side' and a 1/4 on his side (including the flashing on 'his side'). 

So given that you have fulfilled your responsibility to the party agreement by maintaining 'your side', so should he to his. Unless of course he is willing to pay you the extra to get it done on his behalf. If I were you I would spin it round by pointing out the potential cost saving to him by paying you (or your builder directly) for his side now rather than him having to pay more later on for his own builder.

Sadly there must be many, many more neighbours like yours around the country. Not enough commonsense to go round anymore!

cheers,

ike


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## Scrit (19 Jul 2007)

ike":2so03vls said:


> Sadly there must be many, many more neighbours like yours around the country. Not enough commonsense to go round anymore!


Oh, there are, there are! I have one. In the words of Jim Taggart "He's a complete numpty!"

Scrit


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## devonwoody (19 Jul 2007)

If you are leasehold there could be different rules entirely from above.


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## DomValente (19 Jul 2007)

Whatever you do don't (out of generosity) repair his side, he would take that as you admitting responsibility for the damp.

Dom


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## JFC (19 Jul 2007)

Maybe get your roofer to tell him he will do the work but he has to pay , that will save you having the confrontation with him . If the roofer says i get this all the time blah blah he may well admit it's down to him .
Its horrible when you find out the bloke next door is a money grabbing toss pot innit !


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## ike (20 Jul 2007)

> when you find out the bloke next door is a money grabbing toss pot innit



I was being too polite to say it! :lol: 

Ike


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## Benchwayze (20 Jul 2007)

Now I know why I went detached. It put me over my head in debt at the time, but I am so glad I struggled through! 

Although I am not entirely free of disputes. My neighbour won't allow my builder to set a ladder on his side of the fence, to get a safe working angle for said ladder. So now I have to pay for scaffolding, just to repair a guttering joint! 
Best of luck on that one Grahame.
John


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## devonwoody (20 Jul 2007)

John .I would get the ladies talking and find out when he is going on holiday :wink:

If your wife says she is going to Southend on sea, you can bet the other lady will say she is going to the Equator or something.


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## kafkaian (20 Jul 2007)

DomValente":2h3wba7o said:


> Whatever you do don't (out of generosity) repair his side, he would take that as you admitting responsibility for the damp



I would have to agree


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