# Teensy chisel



## bugbear (6 Jul 2015)

Just bought (from a dealer, for once) the narrowest chisel I've ever seen.

It's in the fairly familiar semi-mortise style, of which I have several examples, all at around the 1/8" size. They're very handy.

But the new one mike's at 0.072", or near enough 1/16". :shock: 

I'm planning to use a wide based jig to restore and sharpen it.

The brand is Frost of Norwich, which was a large (indeed, dominant) tool retailer. I don't therefore know who made it.

BugBear


----------



## AndyT (6 Jul 2015)

Interesting! I'm sure you will be showing us some pictures but I'd like to see if it's that thickness (or should I say thinness) all the way up?
This is my thinnest which I inherited from a friend. The first inch or so is about 3/64" but it's hard to tell if it was made like that or ground down by a user. It's about 3/32" at the rather unclear marks which are on either side so must presumably be the original thickness at that point.


----------



## MIGNAL (6 Jul 2015)

I have one at 2 mm's but that's a specialist luthiers chisel, not that there's anything special about it. I've made a few from old needle files that are much thinner than that. Mostly I use them as a kind of scratch stock for inlay.


----------



## bugbear (6 Jul 2015)

A re-check with the micrometer shows a pretty much gradual increase over the length of the blade, from 0.072" to 0.085", 13 thou in all, or about 1/100".

So I think the small size is as "manufactured"

BugBear


----------



## AndyT (6 Jul 2015)

Any pics on the way? I've not needed to use my chisel yet, but I did try sharpening it and getting a straight end on such a small surface is not as easy as I thought it ought to be, so I'd like to see your method.


----------



## bugbear (6 Jul 2015)

AndyT":lwghtlif said:


> Any pics on the way?



(wanders into "studio")






BugBear


----------



## JohnPW (6 Jul 2015)

The narrowest manufactured chisel I've got is 2.2mm, I think. I've got quite a few at 3mm and 3.5mm. Eg:














My narrowest are ones I made myself, 1.5mm from ground flat stock and 1mm from a jigsaw blade.

And I do use them, eg for making thumb planes, mortices for linings on a violin.


----------



## Corneel (6 Jul 2015)

The narrowest I've got is only 1 mm. But it really is a sweep 1 carving chisel, so I don't know if that counts?


----------



## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Jul 2015)

The small chisel on the right is a 1/16" Iyoroi. The others are Koyamaichi dovetail chisels.






It was used ...






... to build a small box with small dovetails ...











 

Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## bugbear (8 Jul 2015)

AndyT":3r5n8ooy said:


> but I did try sharpening it and getting a straight end on such a small surface is not as easy as I thought it ought to be, so I'd like to see your method.



Well, the back was a bit more sensuous than I like, especially near the tip. To remove the curves and convexity I held the chisel vertically by the sides of the blade, and rubbed it on a DMT diamond stone. EDIT; the red one, 25 micron, 50p from a car boot sale, only diamond stone I own.






You didn't expect me to try that by hand did you?! :shock: The key piece of kit here, apart from my monster jig, was a toolmaker's clamp.

This created a back that was flat, straight and polished, in around 10 minutes. It's a small area.

The bevel tool rather less time - I just used an Eclipse #36 jig in side clamping mode; the wheel was easily wide enough to hold the tip in a stable position for the 60 careful seconds it took; I used an Arkansas stone for this, deeming stone hardness and fine texture to be crucial for such a small working area.

I'm going to re-use the jig setup with coarser abrasive for a 1/8" Sorby OBM chisel I've been putting off restoring; it's quite rusty and pitted including the back.

BugBear


----------



## Carl P (8 Jul 2015)

Fantastic jig - wonderfully OTT in appearance, also somehow menacing in a low tech SF dystopian world kind of way, main thing is it works!

Cheerio,

Carl


----------



## bugbear (9 Jul 2015)

Carl P":32h2i7ea said:


> Fantastic jig - wonderfully OTT in appearance, also somehow menacing in a low tech SF dystopian world kind of way, main thing is it works!



It comes in handy sometimes  

http://www.woodworkinfo.site88.net/tour ... pening_jig

It's really more like a graver sharpener






Or a ornamental turner's sharpener:






or even a diamond faceting "tang"






BugBear


----------



## David C (9 Jul 2015)

Great job, wonderful devices.

Kell no 1 with big wheels also does excellent job on bevel side, for sq edges.

best wishes,
David


----------



## matthewwh (9 Jul 2015)

Ashley Iles still make a 1/16" chisel.

They would be difficult to machine, but for a skilled hand grinder they're no trouble. 






Link

If you want to go really small, how about a curved 1/32" V Tool.






Link


----------



## Corneel (9 Jul 2015)

I used mine for dovetails too. I accidentily made the dovetails a bit too narrow. 
I can't remember the need for sharpening contraptions though. They sharpen up easilly enough freehand. Just a few swipes on an oilstone to raise a wire edge. They're probably not 90 degrees though, might be 89, or even 88


----------



## bugbear (9 Jul 2015)

Corneel":1yusqmwl said:


> I used mine for dovetails too. I accidentily made the dovetails a bit too narrow.
> I can't remember the need for sharpening contraptions though. They sharpen up easilly enough freehand. Just a few swipes on an oilstone to raise a wire edge. They're probably not 90 degrees though, might be 89, or even 88



Yeah - eventual _sharpening_ was easy and quick. Working the back - not so much.

The back was irregular enough that it wouldn't seat securely on the stone, even allowing for the small size.

It seats very nicely now - removing the burr using the arkansas was a positive pleasure.

BugBear


----------



## David C (9 Jul 2015)

I am sure the jigging for the back was worthwhile.

I have never seen a flat back on an old one of these chisels. The tendency to rock is almost impossible to avoid.

David


----------



## Corneel (9 Jul 2015)

Then we are back to the question, how flat should it be? But that's allready extensively covered elsewhere.


----------



## David C (9 Jul 2015)

And the answer is........

Flat near the tip is very desirable. 

It allows the wire edge to be properly honed away.

No subsequent messing about with strops required.

David


----------



## Jacob (9 Jul 2015)

Corneel":3d48igj7 said:


> Then we are back to the question, how flat should it be? But that's allready extensively covered elsewhere.


Depends what you are doing with it. 
BBs chisel is strictly a mortice chisel - the wide blade could make it difficult for DTs - a fine bevel edged chisel would be better.
As a mortice chisel a fairly straight face is handy for an inch or so. For DTs and other processes it might not matter at all.


----------



## CStanford (9 Jul 2015)

I've always found it convenient if nothing else to be able to reach the burr by registering a regular bench chisel flat on the stone. It hasn't seemed that difficult over the years to put together a group of chisels that allows just that, either 'out of the box' or with a very minimal amount of lapping. Even Buck Bros. sold in big box stores over here are delightfully consistent in having the concave side opposite the side on which the bevel is ground, virtually no lapping required. 

Not sure what the big deal is. If a bench chisel has a pot-belly let somebody else fool with it or save it for your carving or some other odd circumstance where pivoting off the hump might be useful.


----------



## Jacob (9 Jul 2015)

CStanford":3meiyeww said:


> ..... If a bench chisel has a pot-belly let somebody else fool with it or save it for your carving or some other odd circumstance where pivoting off the hump might be useful.


If a chisel is a bit convex it will make very little difference to anything anyway.


----------



## CStanford (9 Jul 2015)

Probably not, but for me it's just convenient to have bench chisels flat enough to reach the burr without lifting. I doubt I'd be able to keep the angle from growing without jigging of some sort, like David C's ruler. Mostly a nonissue since my Blue Chips bought new, and the few I've replaced, were all within fifteen minutes or less striking distance of flat, if not already flat. Same with a few vintage Marples straight firmers and Marples boxwood handled mortise chisels. Based on my experience it seems that this is how Marples supplied them or perhaps the previous owner did the heavy lifting. Not sure about other companies.


----------



## Jacob (9 Jul 2015)

All the new chisels I've ever had (good ones and nasty ones, not that many either way) have been slightly concave on the face and hence easy to sharpen.
All the old ones I've ever had have been flattish to convex, due (I presume!) to years of slightly lifting (or edge pressure) to remove the burr. 
It makes little difference in use.
Luckily I never cottoned on to the flattening craze, which is relatively recent. Though I was briefly suckered into the idea and ebayed some perfectly OK chisels on the mistaken assumption that they were too bent to use. Shouldn't listen to the "experts" they just make it up any old rubbish as they go along!


----------



## CStanford (9 Jul 2015)

I guess the oldest chisels I have are likely the Marples boxwood handled mortising chisels. They came flat and polished which I assume was at a minimum work from the previous user though they may have shipped new in pretty good condition, whenever that was. I don't know the vintage of these chisels. My Blue Chips as previously mentioned were fine (bought new) years ago and required hardly any effort at all to polish right down to the edge, and my ash-handled straight firmers were in good shape as well, though purchased used so the backs may have been the result of a previous owner's efforts.

In all honesty there are likely lots of paring jobs where the shape of the back, one way or the other, would probably matter very little.


----------



## David C (9 Jul 2015)

I have never seen a bevel edged 1/16" chisel.

Has anyone else?

David


----------



## CStanford (9 Jul 2015)

No, but I have seen dovetailed doll house furniture and I wonder what sort of chisels those guys use to make it. Seems like there was an old article in Fine Woodworking and the joinery was real, not just mocked up to look real.


----------



## bugbear (9 Jul 2015)

David C":xtrc3t28 said:


> I have never seen a bevel edged 1/16" chisel.
> 
> Has anyone else?
> 
> David



The geometry against you - even with rather steep sides, forming an equilaterlal triangle, it's only (just over) 1/16" thick as well, so very fragile, if made to any great length.

BugBear


----------



## Phil Pascoe (9 Jul 2015)

I knew a guy 50yrs ago who used to make very accurately reproduced model wagons and carts, and he used to grind his own chisels out of darning needles and masonry nails.


----------



## AndyT (9 Jul 2015)

David C":142b7dep said:


> I have never seen a bevel edged 1/16" chisel.
> 
> Has anyone else?
> 
> David



It's not what you would first think of as bevel edged, but the sides of the one I showed on the first page are angled in at about the sort of angle you would cut on a tiny dovetail. So it would cut all the way to the internal corner.


----------



## Jacob (9 Jul 2015)

bugbear":2eb7mj86 said:


> David C":2eb7mj86 said:
> 
> 
> > I have never seen a bevel edged 1/16" chisel.
> ...


I doubt you'd find 1/16" wide DTs except on models. I've seen them as narrow as 4mm on drawers. For small DTs the bevel needn't be that steep. 1/8, 1/10, common. 
Can't say I've seen one either - but I guess they may well have used something similar on steep sided single kerf DTs.


----------



## Biliphuster (10 Jul 2015)

David C":7rmzlzjh said:


> I have never seen a bevel edged 1/16" chisel.
> 
> Has anyone else?
> 
> David



Ashley Iles sell a 1/16 dovetail chisel (the one with the rounded back). Certainly easier than grinding your own.


----------



## JimB (10 Jul 2015)

This is my smallest apart from carving tools. I picked it up at a tool sale. The handle is a type of casuarina I think perhaps sheoke.
Marples of course and it could have been altered from an 1/8" to a 1/16" bevel edge but, if so, whoever did it made an excellent job of it.


----------



## Jacob (10 Jul 2015)

I've got a 3/16" similar but the bevel is only ground on the first inch. Long enough for DT housings. Mine also looks perfectly done - perhaps factory ground and not DIY.


----------



## bugbear (10 Jul 2015)

JimB":1wgji3a4 said:


> Marples of course and it could have been altered from an 1/8" to a 1/16" bevel edge but, if so, whoever did it made an excellent job of it.



If it's 1/16" all the way up, and stamped on the side, it must have been made as 1/16", surely?

It might have had the B/E added of course, that's possible.

BugBear


----------



## Cheshirechappie (10 Jul 2015)

The 1938 Marples catalogue (available to view on Toolemera, courtesy of our very own AndyT) lists 1/16" bevel edge firmer chisels unhandled at 12/6 per dozen. Interestingly, they don't list b/e chisels smaller than 1/4" handled, though from that size and larger they offer five types of handle options, round ash or beech, round taper beech, carving ash or beech, carving boxwood and London octagonal boxwood.

It would be possible for a craftsman to buy a chisel and loose handle seperately and fit them himself, or he could could make his own handle.

Thus, there was no need for a craftsman to make his own 1/16" b/e chisel by grinding down a bigger one. They were commercially available, up to WW2 at least.

(PS - The currently available Ashley Iles 1/16" chisel is a little beauty - balanced, light and with good edge-holding. Highly recemmended. I wouldn't willingly part with mine. It's not an everyday tool, but when it's needed it's a really handy little chisel.)


----------



## JimB (10 Jul 2015)

bugbear":2c32dt0h said:


> JimB":2c32dt0h said:
> 
> 
> > Marples of course and it could have been altered from an 1/8" to a 1/16" bevel edge but, if so, whoever did it made an excellent job of it.
> ...


It's wider towards the tang but looks more as if it's for strength rather than an aftermarket grinding job.


----------



## bugbear (22 Jul 2015)

I've now dug out and photo'd another small chisel; this is 0.151" (5/32") wide, and is (obviously...) a full on mortising chisel, stamped Sorby.






BugBear


----------



## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (22 Jul 2015)

I posted this one earlier - a 1/16" Iyoroi ..






It is not as interesting as this 5/64" mortice chisel - it has no name and I wonder who would have made it and for what reason (I bought it for plane making) ...






The smallest regular mortice chisel I have, and use, is this 1/8" ... is this M.OSBORN or MOSBORN ?






Regards from Perth

Derek


----------



## AndyT (22 Jul 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> The smallest regular mortice chisel I have, and use, is this 1/8" ... is this M.OSBORN or MOSBORN ?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek



It's H (Henry) Osborn, long standing tool seller of Southampton, from 1895 to 1923. Tools made and marked for them, including planes and saws as well as chisels, are reasonably common, over here at least. There were related businesses in Portsmouth and Newcastle upon Tyne.

Edit: Looking again at the picture, there is also a picture of a Palm Tree. This was the trade mark of Mawhood Brothers of Sheffield, who would have made your chisel for Osborns to sell.


----------



## JohnPW (3 Oct 2015)

JohnPW":9asygj9u said:


> The narrowest manufactured chisel I've got is 2.2mm, I think. I've got quite a few at 3mm and 3.5mm.
> 
> 
> My narrowest are ones I made myself, 1.5mm from ground flat stock and 1mm from a jigsaw blade.
> ...



I have now bought what I presume is a 1/16 Mawhood chisel, actual width 1.8mm, cost £1!

Here'a pic of the narrow chisels I made.

In front is the 1.2 mm made from a jigsaw blade, behind is made from 1.6mm ground flat stock. Both handles have caps and are made from 2 halves glued togeter.


----------



## Jacob (3 Oct 2015)

You need to taper the handles so that the bottom is as close as you can get it to the face of the chisel and the other 3 sides taper down to near zero at the blade. i.e. in general, depending on what you want to do with them of course


----------



## Zeddedhed (3 Oct 2015)

I started reading this thread thinking 'who on earth would need a 3mm chisel' and generally snorting and huffing to myself about 'tool junkies' etc etc. 

Now I need a 3mm chisel.

Really. I do.

So if any of you fantastic collectors of small and weeny chisels want to sell me one...... :roll:


----------

