# Drawer substitute for dovetails? Domino.



## Brian Jackson (28 Nov 2010)

Here is a method that is used with Domino.........

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y79/ci ... drawer.jpg

I think it works well, what do you think?


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## superunknown (28 Nov 2010)

I think it would look better without the rebate. It's gonna be strong enough for sure. 

Having said that, what part of the drawer is that?


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## TEO (1 Dec 2010)

Just looks plain ugly to me.

The faces don't meet properly and the dominoes! it's like slicing through a biscuit, looks nasty.


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## Racers (2 Dec 2010)

Hi,

Not much thickness left between the dominos and the end of the draw side, looks like a very weak point to me.
Biscuits would be better, which I have used in the same situation with good results.

Pete


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## Jacob (2 Dec 2010)

If you tried to fold that joint in or out, the tenons would very easily break out the thin bit of cross grained drawer side immediately. 
If you have to do it like that round dowels would be better. 
Can you do round dowels with a domino?


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## knappers (2 Dec 2010)

Would look better, and probably still be strong enough if the dominos were tenoned lengthways into the sides and came through flush onto the drawer front.

Si.


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## Chems (2 Dec 2010)

I think it depends how well its made as to how attractive it looks:







Ive used the domino on drawers quite a few times, done the back ones like these and the front one with dovetails.


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## promhandicam (2 Dec 2010)

I personally think that a couple of 4" nails holding the drawer together would look better and would probably be stronger too.


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## Jacob (2 Dec 2010)

:lol: 
or 4no 2" nails.


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## tisdai (2 Dec 2010)

I thought this was a family friendly forum where members can post what they are doing and hoping to get some encouragement or helpfull advice in return, NOT to be ridiculed and laughed at like a couple of the replies. 

These couple of   replies will make some of the members think twice before posting their work up on the forum just incase the same thing happens to them.

Cheers

Dave


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## Jacob (2 Dec 2010)

tisdai":55wppfl3 said:


> I thought this was a family friendly forum where members can post what they are doing and hoping to get some encouragement or helpfull advice in return, NOT to be ridiculed and laughed at like a couple of the replies.
> 
> These couple of   replies will make some of the members think twice before posting their work up on the forum just incase the same thing happens to them.
> 
> ...


Not really ridiculed - just a little leg pull IMHO. You should see what we have to put up with over there with trolls lining up 16 to the dozen!
Nail comment not entirely facetious though; they are used a lot even in quite good old furniture. Drawer bottoms sometimes just nailed on from below. Quite practical really. And a hammer is a lot cheaper than a festool domino.


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## Chems (2 Dec 2010)

The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.


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## Jacob (2 Dec 2010)

Chems":3ojcijpd said:


> The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.


Not me squire!
I bought one this week, although it is in transit somewhere, probably stuck in a snow drift


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## Chems (2 Dec 2010)

Welcome to the green side


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## tisdai (2 Dec 2010)

Jacob":3p01k3pi said:


> tisdai":3p01k3pi said:
> 
> 
> > I thought this was a family friendly forum where members can post what they are doing and hoping to get some encouragement or helpfull advice in return, NOT to be ridiculed and laughed at like a couple of the replies.
> ...



Hi Jacob

I just look at it as it is, the guy who posted his picture might be a newbie to woodworking and to forums and as a result might take it to heart. Myself personally you could call my projects what ever you liked and i would'nt blink an eyelid over it, as i have been doing it long enough and have been aquainted with forums for years so nothing new to me.



Chems":3p01k3pi said:


> The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.



Hi Chems

I don't own one m8, not because of the cost I just have not been interested in them. I Only use dowels now and again and i can use any drill bit for that lol.

Cheers

Dave


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## promhandicam (2 Dec 2010)

Chems":307q0v9f said:


> The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.



I have a domino too and I have used it for joining drawer components. I've also forgotten to change the depth setting and cut right through a component which is this looks like to me. The OP asked ". . . what do you think?", well I think that aesthetically it doesn't look very good and I don't think that it will be a particularly strong joint either.


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## jumps (8 Dec 2010)

promhandicam":3jbur47y said:


> Chems":3jbur47y said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.
> ...



As an extreme newbie (first post) who's spending time trolling through vast numbers of threads trying to absorb ideas and benefit from the vast wisdom here - I actually find such direct comments to be very helpful. I hadn't really thought to question the strength - but, when pushed to consider it, it becomes rather obvious that it adds little to 'function' for the reasons given in a few responses and rather hammered home in others!

Right now I don't know what a Domino is - but will now spend a bit of time finding out.


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## promhandicam (8 Dec 2010)

jumps":30tm7s4m said:


> As an extreme newbie (first post) who's spending time trolling through vast numbers of threads trying to absorb ideas and benefit from the vast wisdom here - I actually find such direct comments to be very helpful . . .Right now I don't know what a Domino is - but will now spend a bit of time finding out.



Welcome to the forum - I'm glad that you've found some useful information here. With regards to a domino - it refers to a type of jointing method using loose tenons that fit in slots made by a domino jointer, made exclusively by Festool. The machine used to make the slots is relatively expensive although for a professional cabinet maker the investment can be fairly quickly recouped. Unless you have recently won the lottery, I would advise against spending too much time googling 'festool' as it is a road that can quite easily lead to ruin :mrgreen:


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## Chems (8 Dec 2010)

I think if you started off by buying Festool, you would actually save money in the long run.

For instance, you start out with a cheap Circ Saw. Say £40, you then upgrade that to another better one, perhaps spend £180 on a nice makita one. 

Total Spent £220,
Later you want a track saw, so of course buy the TS55 as most people seem to. £320 spent (best price at the mo)

Total spent getting you to a TS55 £540.

Perhaps you sell the old makita one, recoup some money, but its not a top end saw so probably loose a bit of cash on it. Sell for £80. So updated total £440.

Buying the TS55 straight off as your first tool:

£320.

It another way of looking at it. I know its been true in my history. People always say buy cheap buy twice. So its just heeding the rule.

Disclaimer: Applies to any top notch brand, Mafell etc Festool just used as a demonstration! 

Now that I'm in education I've sold of the majority of my tools bar the Festools and TableSaw, when the times comes to start replacing tools, they will all be green.


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## promhandicam (9 Dec 2010)

Chems":2uvq2o6j said:


> I think if you started off by buying Festool, you would actually save money in the long run.



That would depend very much on what you intended to do in the long run. If it is just putting up a few shelves and doing a bit of diy, buying a festool track saw, jig saw, drill, sander and router won't leave you much change out of £2000. On the other hand if you buy makita / bosch / metabo - all perfectly adequate tools, I would guess you would be looking at around £500 - therefore my reference to a lottery win in connection with festool :wink:


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## Chems (9 Dec 2010)

No that's quite right. If you were just getting into woodworking you may not know if you'll like it or stick at it.


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## bugbear (9 Dec 2010)

Jacob":1zcr9meo said:


> Chems":1zcr9meo said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with domino discussion is some people just get so green and bitter about it cause they don't have them. Its like a hand grenade topic.
> ...



Grim's jumped on a brandwagon!

BugBear


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## Jacob (9 Dec 2010)

bugbear":li3kvrbu said:


> Jacob":li3kvrbu said:
> 
> 
> > Chems":li3kvrbu said:
> ...


 :lol: 
It certainly is a band wagon!
I decided I really needed what the FT domino does i.e. precise mortices with a hand held machine, and the FTdomino is the only machine that does it - not counting fence contractors chain mortice machines,
I don't want the dominoes themselves - I can make my own , and I'm not happy about the hype - "cystainers" and all that nonsense! 
Mr Quangsheng if you are listening - opportunity here for a practical machine which could be done at a fraction of the price!
We'll see. I might sell it on later.
It's not arrived yet - stuck in the snow, roads are bad around here


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## tisdai (9 Dec 2010)

Even with the best tools in the world you still have to know how to use them or forget it, I have seen work done by supposed professionals who have not learnt anything about woodworking with all the NEW Have to Have BEST GEAR and most of the time their workmanship just looks like rubbish because they have not got the skill to use them, where i have seen some with old tools that you think would not cut or drill into a piece of cake and yet get an exelent piece of workmanship out of them.

I have got an old bosch and dewalt circular saw, Jigsaw, Drills and drill drivers, an old B&Q Drill, and some homemade jigs and so on and they still work without any problems and if they were to pack up I would not go and pay hundreds of pounds just to buy 1 power tool when i could buy 3 or 4 with the same money and that includes if i was to win the lottery, =P~ 

If i had to buy some powertools because some of the 1s i have seem to give up the ghost, after lasting me i don't know how many years then the new 1s i would replace them with would see out my lifetime lol. Each to their own, everyone has their choices and it is not upto me to tell other people what to buy, and vice versa as long as it works ok for you and me then as long as we are happy with what we have chosen than thats all that matters at the end of the day.

Cheers  

Dave


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## Jacob (9 Dec 2010)

By eck it sounds like the ghost of christmas past!
No I agree with you Dave, I've been saying the same sort of thing for years. The weakest link in a lot of made stuff is not in skills, equipment, material; very many people having the best of all three. 
It's design IMHO. 
Lots of beautifully made and finished stuff looks so boring. Conversely crudely made things can be brilliant if the design is OK to start with.

I bought this bit of kit for a particular job where I think it will pay for itself. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.


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## Chems (9 Dec 2010)

tisdai":3e3xmsfi said:


> Even with the best tools in the world you still have to know how to use them or forget it, I have seen work done by supposed professionals who have not learnt anything about woodworking with all the NEW Have to Have BEST GEAR and most of the time their workmanship just looks like rubbish because they have not got the skill to use them, where i have seen some with old tools that you think would not cut or drill into a piece of cake and yet get an exelent piece of workmanship out of them.
> 
> I have got an old bosch and dewalt circular saw, Jigsaw, Drills and drill drivers, an old B&Q Drill, and some homemade jigs and so on and they still work without any problems and if they were to pack up I would not go and pay hundreds of pounds just to buy 1 power tool when i could buy 3 or 4 with the same money and that includes if i was to win the lottery, =P~
> 
> ...



I do agree with that. I've made some really nice stuff (I think so  ) with very basic kit such as £80 table saws and awesome PowerBase equipment. Often with the more expensive tools, it can be less the end result, more how easy and efficient (and enjoyable!) it was to get there.


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## tisdai (9 Dec 2010)

> I've made some really nice stuff (I think so )



I have seen some of your projects on here Chems and they look good to me m8, I have posted in a couple as well about the work you do. In my mind if you can do them with a festool like you have and you have no problems doing them without one as well like you have mentioned " with very basic kit such as £80 table saws and that " if you have the skill their it will show in your work, like Jacob mentions about helping him to do things quicker, the more he can do the more money he can earn, and thier are lots of people in the same boat. 

If it can help a contractor or someone who relies on it for work but alas i am not one of them any more, due to personal reasons, and No it is not Money  I can't do what i used to be abled to do, but i do love working with wood, i allways have done, their is just somthing about it, it is like a drug  or maybe they just want to have them because they believe that they are the best, then go for it. Everyone is different and do things differently to others, nothing wrong in that well not in my book anyways  .

Cheers

Dave


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## Brian Jackson (11 Dec 2010)

Obviously a few carpenters on here who wish the were cabinet makers.

The fit isn't perfect as I did rebate off saw, this was trying out my new toy.

I have only 40 years as a cabby so probably need some guidance off the likes of Jacob.


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## Brian Jackson (11 Dec 2010)

jumps":s8n4s2h9 said:


> promhandicam":s8n4s2h9 said:
> 
> 
> > Chems":s8n4s2h9 said:
> ...




This may help.


http://goo.gl/OoqDD


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## Chems (12 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":18d2oxin said:


> Obviously a few carpenters on here who wish the were cabinet makers.
> 
> The fit isn't perfect as I did rebate off saw, this was trying out my new toy.
> 
> I have only 40 years as a cabby so probably need some guidance off the likes of Jacob.



We got off the topic there, I agree its a great way to do drawers quickly and strongly. I've done it on a lot of drawers done recently.


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## Brian Jackson (12 Dec 2010)

Chems":2rr8xxwt said:


> Brian Jackson":2rr8xxwt said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously a few carpenters on here who wish the were cabinet makers.
> ...


Quite right Chems.

I damaged a 10mm bit on my Domino, the replace ment here in NZ was $105.

Subsequently found this crowd.......

http://goo.gl/oguH0


Hope this is some help to you lads.


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## promhandicam (12 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":3l05bvlu said:


> . . . I damaged a 10mm bit on my Domino, the replace ment here in NZ was $105.
> 
> Subsequently found this crowd....... http://goo.gl/oguH0 Hope this is some help to you lads.



Does anyone know if CMT sell these in the UK?


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":1tvmihqu said:


> Obviously a few carpenters on here who wish the were cabinet makers.
> 
> The fit isn't perfect as I did rebate off saw, this was trying out my new toy.
> 
> I have only 40 years as a cabby so probably need some guidance off the likes of Jacob.


Right that explains it. 
More money in driving a cab IMHO but don't give up on the woodwork just yet!


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## Brian Jackson (12 Dec 2010)

Jacob":1dq4ik1b said:


> Brian Jackson":1dq4ik1b said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously a few carpenters on here who wish the were cabinet makers.
> ...


A comedian too, will we ever learn of all this chaps accomplishments?


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":qvc20vbz said:


> Jacob":qvc20vbz said:
> 
> 
> > Brian Jackson":qvc20vbz said:
> ...


 :lol: 
Do you want to know how to make a drawer or not!


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## Chems (12 Dec 2010)

promhandicam":1zei1jlf said:


> Brian Jackson":1zei1jlf said:
> 
> 
> > . . . I damaged a 10mm bit on my Domino, the replace ment here in NZ was $105.
> ...



Axminster defiantly did sell them, I saw them when I bought something for my domino recently as a related product. 

Try contacting CMT UK directly: 08456 040064 

I wouldn't be surprised if Festool had put the breaks on people selling them in Europe somehow.

PS, Don't mind Jacob, he's the forum troll, he keeps getting banned back to a cave but somehow the staff seem to let him back in. 

However the new forum software has the ignore feature so aim it at him and click Ignore and live happily ever after!


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## Hudson Carpentry (24 Dec 2010)

For me its not the cost. Yes it is very very over priced, even for the domino's themselves, but its modern and in my opinion not as strong joinery. Dovetails look far nicer and are plenty stronger. I don't like the look of seeing the domino's.

As for the posts thats seen as destructive. I liked them, made me smile. But then i run a trades forum thats Non PC, say what you like when you like type of place. Think if this person can't take a bit of banter then do you really need that misery on this forum. The guy asked for peoples opinions, he didn't ask them all to say it looks fantastic. He was after honesty.


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## Brian Jackson (24 Dec 2010)

Hudson Carpentry":2tnl1ktg said:


> For me its not the cost. Yes it is very very over priced, even for the domino's themselves, but its modern and in my opinion not as strong joinery. Dovetails look far nicer and are plenty stronger. I don't like the look of seeing the domino's.
> 
> As for the posts thats seen as destructive. I liked them, made me smile. But then i run a trades forum thats Non PC, say what you like when you like type of place. Think if this person can't take a bit of banter then do you really need that misery on this forum. The guy asked for peoples opinions, he didn't ask them all to say it looks fantastic. He was after honesty.


Ah, I assume you don't have a Domino, never mind perhaps one day.

Seems some of us like the Domino in drawer and then there are the others.

From a practical stand point, I think they may have a limited life strength wise, say a 100 years, not really good enough for some! 

Hope that is to your taste Huddy.


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## Hudson Carpentry (24 Dec 2010)

Don't get me wrong Brian. If i wanted one, i would get one. Im not a hobbist.


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## Jacob (25 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":267sgi9g said:


> Hudson Carpentry":267sgi9g said:
> 
> 
> > For me its not the cost. Yes it is very very over priced, even for the domino's themselves, but its modern and in my opinion not as strong joinery. Dovetails look far nicer and are plenty stronger. I don't like the look of seeing the domino's.
> ...


Not everybody wants one, believe it or not. I bought one but I'm beginning to have second thoughts.


> ....
> From a practical stand point, I think they may have a limited life strength wise, say a 100 years, not really good enough for some!....


I reckon those thin bits of end grain will break fairly quickly, before you've glued it together even - unless you glue first and then domino afterwards when it's gone hard.

Happy christmas


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## Brian Jackson (25 Dec 2010)

Hudson Carpentry":2ucdsfg1 said:


> Don't get me wrong Brian. If i wanted one, i would get one. Im not a hobbist.



I believe they are not restricted to the hobbist.

Myself included.


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## tisdai (25 Dec 2010)

Hudson Carpentry":nzuypvmc said:


> As for the posts thats seen as destructive. I liked them, made me smile. But then i run a trades forum thats Non PC, say what you like when you like type of place. Think if this person can't take a bit of banter then do you really need that misery on this forum. The guy asked for peoples opinions, he didn't ask them all to say it looks fantastic. He was after honesty.



I think he was after some construtive opinions Hudson not one's that ridicule him, As for the ' Think if this person can't take a bit of banter then do you really need that misery on this forum ' how do you know if he or anyone else is a misery, just because they are not like you does not mean they are not entitled to be here. I seen this forum as a place where i like others who have joined can get the help they need if and when they need it, or even to help out where or if i can myself. I like to have a laugh and a joke it would be a dull life without being able to, but i would not do it to someone i don't know, for all you know they could be joining a forum for the 1st time, and asking for help as they have nowhere else to turn to.

Dave


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## Brian Jackson (26 Dec 2010)

tisdai":2udtdoq9 said:


> Hudson Carpentry":2udtdoq9 said:
> 
> 
> > As for the posts thats seen as destructive. I liked them, made me smile. But then i run a trades forum thats Non PC, say what you like when you like type of place. Think if this person can't take a bit of banter then do you really need that misery on this forum. The guy asked for peoples opinions, he didn't ask them all to say it looks fantastic. He was after honesty.
> ...


Jacobs the problem..
Had a Domino for 5 mins and isn't sure about continuing with it.

What can you say to someone who won't take the time to learn?


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## Jacob (26 Dec 2010)

Brian Jackson":3v6i56q9 said:


> ......
> Had a Domino for 5 mins and isn't sure about continuing with it.
> 
> What can you say to someone who won't take the time to learn?


What can you say to someone who won't take the time to learn from his mistakes? :lol:


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## Hudson Carpentry (26 Dec 2010)

Yes anyone can buy the domino, my point was for the price its more a professionals tool.

If you knew me (which you don't and was a good point made by some one) you would know that im very motivated in learning. The only books i read are educational. I use the internet to learn.

If the OP was new then fair do's don't scare them off, but when you feel you would like to post the kind of comments your complaining about you can first, look left, and see if there new or not.

IMO the comments people have complained about wasn't to put the OP down but was there way of answering there question, having a laugh and joke at the same time. The OP asked not about his quality of work but how his new idea looks. Its people complaining about people that reply with the kind of comments that make this country a perfectively PC place. This country is far to PC and its making freedom of speak a thing of the past.

You don't know that this person will not take it the wrong way but why not be yourself and share your sense of humor just encase you might upset someone. People are different, people find different things funny, its part of the world going round. Telling people off, even more so when there is more then one person that finds this kind of banter acceptable just encourages people to not be themselves.

Now have your final reply to me (brain don't waste it on another domino post directed to me, im to thick skinned), then lets leave it there as we are hi jacking this thread.


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## tisdai (26 Dec 2010)

Final Reply,  

I am not complaining Hudson i was just making a point of as you say Scaring them Off. As you know you can tell by the post count that they are new to the forum or not, and if they have posted any of their work previously. No i did'nt know if they would take it the wrong way or not, but by the absence of a reply it just made me wonder if they had took it the wrong way and may have upset them. I have seen it happen many times in a forum where members have left and not come back because they have been slagged off by someone, and that is the reason why i posted a reply the way i did. 



> If you knew me (which you don't and was a good point made by some one)


No i dod't know you and i am not having a go at you either, i am just trying to point out that you may not know them either and they may have taken it the wrong way. 

If i have offended you Hudson or anyone else in this thread then i am sorry i did'nt mean to, as for the Domino and what it can do " is what the original OP was about " I will leave that upto the experts as i think that sort of debate will go on and on lol. 

If i were to post my work here when i am set-up properly you could say what you want and it would not offend me personally because i have been arround for farrr too long lol. 

As you say we are hijacking the thread so i won't post here anymore. 

Cheers and all the best for the new year.

Dave

Edited due to getting off course with the original OP, and others posts.


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## Brian Jackson (26 Dec 2010)

Hudson Carpentry":1ioh9exp said:


> Yes anyone can buy the domino, my point was for the price its more a professionals tool.
> 
> If you knew me (which you don't and was a good point made by some one) you would know that im very motivated in learning. The only books i read are educational. I use the internet to learn.
> 
> ...




I see you are from Nottingham, have you come across Robin Hood at all?


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## rannndy (28 Dec 2010)

http://www.wealdentool.eu/video-tips/dr ... rlock.html 

try this
john


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## Brian Jackson (28 Dec 2010)

rannndy":20fq7a6u said:


> http://www.wealdentool.eu/video-tips/drawercornerlock.html
> 
> try this
> john


Fraction of the time with Domino,so I will stick with it!


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## Hudson Carpentry (28 Dec 2010)

rannndy":rucws6xi said:


> http://www.wealdentool.eu/video-tips/drawercornerlock.html
> 
> try this
> john



I have one of these cutters (different brand) , very fast and strong joint. I still like to use a fastener if im running draws up using this method. Just a couple of nails, it puts my mind at rest.


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## Brian Jackson (15 Jan 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":3hs01yc4 said:


> Yes anyone can buy the domino, my point was for the price its more a professionals tool.
> 
> If you knew me (which you don't and was a good point made by some one) you would know that im very motivated in learning. The only books i read are educational. I use the internet to learn.
> 
> ...



I hope you feel better after that.

Far to long winded for we short attenion span people.


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## Deansocial (15 Jan 2011)

i like this style of joint but made with home made domino's that are kept square on the end, Looks good on more modern pieces


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## Brian Jackson (15 Jan 2011)

Deansocial":fczp2hge said:


> i like this style of joint but made with home made domino's that are kept square on the end, Looks good on more modern pieces



Others have said they prefer the squre look, for myself the round does the job.

In the end we don't spend a lot of time looking at them.


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## mike s (17 Jan 2011)

am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
not as good as a dovetail of-course but still good looking


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## Brian Jackson (17 Jan 2011)

mike s":5ea77b8t said:


> am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
> not as good as a dovetail of-course but still good looking


We can't all have good taste it seems :wink:


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## Jacob (17 Jan 2011)

mike s":p2lghvks said:


> am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
> ..


No it's you and Brian jackson. Everybody else thinks it's cra*p. :lol:


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## Brian Jackson (18 Jan 2011)

Jacob":3vm94u7y said:


> mike s":3vm94u7y said:
> 
> 
> > am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
> ...


Have you found somebody to help you to get your Domino out of the box yet?


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## sometimewoodworker (21 Jan 2011)

mike s":1qf7ntpt said:


> am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
> not as good as a dovetail of-course but still good looking


No but being (hammer) is not so great :roll:


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## Brian Jackson (21 Jan 2011)

sometimewoodworker":c7qivin9 said:


> mike s":c7qivin9 said:
> 
> 
> > am i the only one here that thinks that joint looks nice?
> ...


Not Pattaya by any chance?


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## sometimewoodworker (21 Jan 2011)

Brian Jackson":j9l7bxkh said:


> sometimewoodworker":j9l7bxkh said:
> 
> 
> > mike s":j9l7bxkh said:
> ...


No chance  SWMBO http://www.meekings.net/Images/nui/Nui.png would never permit solo travel. But she might (hammer) me herself.

We are in the North east between Udonthani and Khon Ken

http://meekings.selfip.com/nui/Groups-of-photos/Thailand/Thailand.html


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