# Air rifles anyone?



## Graham Orm (29 Sep 2014)

I have a Crossman 2250b (Rat-catcher) that I bought when my lad was at home for us to have a bit of fun with. He's grown and gone now and the gun is still sat there in the garage. It looks like a toy, but a bit of research has shown that it's a well respected and accurate little gun.

Anyone else have one, or any type of air gun?


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## marcros (29 Sep 2014)

I have a theoben mft in a funny calibre (.20). Handy little thing when needed.


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## paulm (29 Sep 2014)

I've gone through a few over the years but settled for the last few years on a Daystate Huntsman Classic pcp in .22, lovely handling bit of kit and as accurate as they come 

Cheers, Paul


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## Harbo (29 Sep 2014)

Another Huntsman Classic (.22) used mainly for shooting rats.

Rod


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## ColeyS1 (29 Sep 2014)

Bsa ultra for nightvision and r10 for in the day time. I use to have a rat catcher but it never had enough clout for my liking. I've seen people spend a little time on them making wooden stocks, I think.... unless my memories playing tricks someone may have adapted a buddy bottle to fit


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## wizard (29 Sep 2014)

weihrauch hw77k and a SMK19 both with single point sights plus 3 barnett crossbows


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## Benchwayze (29 Sep 2014)

I use a catapult. Doesn't count I guess? :ho2


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## t8hants (29 Sep 2014)

Webley Mk III .22, and an Original Model 50.


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## BRYAN (29 Sep 2014)

I have loads of old relics but the main workhorse is the Daystate Airwolf on Fac. Now that really is a good pie filler. @


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## petermillard (29 Sep 2014)

Used to shoot 10-metre rifle with a Feinwerkbau 300s side lever. Just shredding paper, no rats harmed


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## Graham Orm (29 Sep 2014)

It's all Greek to me, I'm a complete novice but interested. Bit of a minefield where to start. I think the Ratty is a little short on umph. Any suggestions on a lower priced Co2 gun?

Or any suggestions on other options...multi shot....compressed air canister???

No big words please...novice here.


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## Harbo (29 Sep 2014)

Have a look at Airgunforum.co.uk.

Rod


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## Lons (29 Sep 2014)

I have a Weihrach HW97K STL which I use for target practice and the odd magpie It's very accurate ove 30 mtrs. 
Did have a nice old Webley vulcan but my brother nicked it also have an old Webley junior pistol and a couple of others tucked away somewhere.


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## marcros (29 Sep 2014)

Unless it has changed over the last few years, co2 canister guns never had a great deal of power. Ok for shooting tin cans but nothing much else. The gas powered ones- buddy bottle style are very good. I like the theoben but there are many other good ones too, some mentioned on here. 

Pigeon watch forum or airgunbbs forum both used to have a good for sale section. I bought mine off one of them, I forget which.


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## n0legs (30 Sep 2014)

I have a Relum Tornado .25 and I love it. BSA Mercury .22, my old faithful and a BSA Scorpion .22, first pistol thankfully missing out a Gat gun. Two years ago bought a Rohm Twin master .177 for serious target practice and my first co2 gun.


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## marcros (30 Sep 2014)

Lons":1l2jpp4f said:


> I have a Weihrach HW97K STL which I use for target practice and the odd magpie It's very accurate ove 30 mtrs.
> Did have a nice old Webley vulcan but my brother nicked it also have an old Webley junior pistol and a couple of others tucked away somewhere.



i had a hw97k. it was a bit heavy for me as a teenager, but nice and accurate and very well made. I wish that I had never sold it. i do quite fancy one of the theoben break barrel gas ram guns- the fenman or i think that they did another one too.


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## Benchwayze (30 Sep 2014)

I haven't owned an air-gun/rifle for some time. However, when I last had one, there were legal limits on how much pressure a rifle could have; in view of the more sophisticated models that had means of increasing the sir pressure with gas canisters. Or something like that. I could be wrong of course! :mrgreen:


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## marcros (30 Sep 2014)

12 ft lbs is the limit for air rifles (without a firearms certificate). There has always been ways of tweaking the power- changing springs, or adjusting the valve somehow to get an extra 10% but i was always told that there was no point adding a little bit of power- the difference in trajectory comes at about 20+ ftlb (and the appropriate certification to wn it). All gas guns now have anti tamper seals, and probably security fixings.

It remains the responsibility of the user to ensure that the gun is within the legal limit etc.


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## DennisCA (30 Sep 2014)

No air guns, just gunpowder using ones. Used to have an airgun or five as a kid though. Most used was this cheap made in china (or possibly in the USSR) gun with a break barrel that fired 4.5mm BBs (or diaboles if thats the proper term). I would love an IZH 46M if I where to get an airgun, but far too much money.


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## Graham Orm (30 Sep 2014)

marcros":1qs50h3z said:


> 12 ft lbs is the limit for air rifles (without a firearms certificate). There has always been ways of tweaking the power- changing springs, or adjusting the valve somehow to get an extra 10% but i was always told that there was no point adding a little bit of power- the difference in trajectory comes at about 20+ ftlb (and the appropriate certification to wn it). All gas guns now have anti tamper seals, and probably security fixings.
> 
> It remains the responsibility of the user to ensure that the gun is within the legal limit etc.



Yes, I'd found most of that out by digging around. My Ratty is about 7ft lbs. So you don't think it's worth getting it tweaked up to 12?


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## marcros (30 Sep 2014)

Grayorm":2e51dh2w said:


> marcros":2e51dh2w said:
> 
> 
> > 12 ft lbs is the limit for air rifles (without a firearms certificate). There has always been ways of tweaking the power- changing springs, or adjusting the valve somehow to get an extra 10% but i was always told that there was no point adding a little bit of power- the difference in trajectory comes at about 20+ ftlb (and the appropriate certification to wn it). All gas guns now have anti tamper seals, and probably security fixings.
> ...



i doubt that you can. If you could, it probably wouldn't be worthwhile doing so. I think that co2 guns that run on the cartridges are usually relatively low powered. The charging equipment for the buddy bottles may be quite expensive, but my reasonably local gun shop only charges a pound to fill my bottle, so it isn't worth getting my own gear. Dont be put off by that expense if you are looking at alternatives.


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## ColeyS1 (30 Sep 2014)

Get an ultramultishot, then let the fun begin !


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## david123 (30 Sep 2014)

Weihrauch 35 kal .5.5 with a walnut stock, and a model 17 6x40 fixed reticule scope
Had it for years, earned its keep in rabbits and such. I would never sell it. is accurate at long range and packs a punch.


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## ChrisR (30 Sep 2014)

I don’t own any form of air gun/weapon, just wish I did, then I could try and start reducing the flying rat (seagull) population.

On second thoughts there are that many, I would need some form of automatic weapon to make any difference, to this out of control form of flying vermin. :x :x 

Chris R.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Sep 2014)

Yes. Then end up in court for killing a pest.


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## woodfarmer (30 Sep 2014)

t8hants":3va0y4s7 said:


> Webley Mk III .22, and an Original Model 50.



My favourite air rifle (the Webley Mk3) , had one as a lad and when I was in the forces my younger brother broke it 

I now have a Webley long barrelled Viscount in .177 fitted with a gas ram. Also a .22 Bronze Benjamin pump up.

These days for hunting use a rimfire .22 and for target shooting a Swiss Hammerli Automatic and a little Spanish Astra revolver.


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## Wildman (30 Sep 2014)

I have a .22 Cometa Fenix 400 a full legal power job and a pair of BSA Meteors for plinking one in .177 and one .22 plus a pistol, I forget the make in .177


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## Harbo (30 Sep 2014)

Here's my Huntsman - I'm right handed but shoot lefty!







Rod


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## Fat ferret (30 Sep 2014)

Think it's hard to beat a nice break barrel for the money. They are spring powered, all self contained, just need a service every couple of years no need to buy CO2 or bottles/pumps for compressed air. Just add ammo!

Weihrauch are still good guns, lots on second hand market for around about the 200 mark. Or you can buy old rusty guns and lovingly restore them, easy to work on. Mine is an hw85 that was my fathers. It's killed thousands of rabbits and still going strong despite 20 years of constant use coupled with infrequent and inexpert servicing. Accurate to 30 yards, inch groups all day long providing technique is up to scratch.


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## woodfarmer (30 Sep 2014)

If you decide to tune an air rifle you need to be careful you don't overdo it. On my Webley I -have- to use the heaviest of H & N pellets as anything lighter runs so fast it melts in the barrel and smears all over the rifling. This has to be cleaned and those that travel at that speed are not accurate as they aren't spinning.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Sep 2014)

It seems strange now, but when I was about twelve years old many of the boys I knew had their own 410 shotguns, and would have laughed at anyone using an airgun.


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## monkeybiter (1 Oct 2014)

woodfarmer":1pkfp8vq said:


> If you decide to tune an air rifle you need to be careful you don't overdo it. On my Webley I -have- to use the heaviest of H & N pellets as anything lighter runs so fast it melts in the barrel and smears all over the rifling. This has to be cleaned and those that travel at that speed are not accurate as they aren't spinning.



That was most likely too much oil [i.e. not much] in the piston causing 'dieseling' which is a compression triggered explosion of oil creating over-pressure, excessive heat and often illegal muzzle energy. 
This is a common side effect of 'home servicing' in a springer. 
No offence intended [I'm not always good at knowing when I've done that]


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## Graham Orm (1 Oct 2014)

marcros":3vjg5kv6 said:


> 12 ft lbs is the limit for air rifles (without a firearms certificate). There has always been ways of tweaking the power- changing springs, or adjusting the valve somehow to get an extra 10% but i was always told that there was no point adding a little bit of power- the difference in trajectory comes at about 20+ ftlb (and the appropriate certification to wn it). All gas guns now have anti tamper seals, and probably security fixings.
> 
> It remains the responsibility of the user to ensure that the gun is within the legal limit etc.



I watched a YT video of a guy comparing 12 & 36 ft lbs guns in a back to back test. Over 45 yards the two both lost height, but the difference was negligible. He then shot from 25 years into a brick of plasticine. the 36lb gun went 15mm further in. Not a huge difference.


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## Graham Orm (1 Oct 2014)

ColeyS1":1get4wrh said:


> Get an ultramultishot, then let the fun begin !



Just looked them up, theres a good YT video. They look the part, what are they like for pest control? He reckons very accurate. Are they? Which model have you got?


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## novocaine (1 Oct 2014)

yep you can tweak it towards the 12lbft mark but it will be a gas hog and may lose accuracy, gmac sell a kit. still a cracking little rifle though with shed loads of trick bits available which make it look great and some even add power lol. end of the day it's a light rifle designed for ratting with a short barrel and smooth action they are great at it but not much else. difference between 7 and 11lbft is penetration at 10-15m which on things like bunnies makes a difference as it means you dont have to get as close, anything beyond 20m is a no no still unless you are sure of your ability and accuracy, I am but still wont, besides it is all about fieldcraft which is what makes it fun.
if you want a CO2 rifle that can be taking up to the legal limit with ease then look at the SMK 78/79 range in .22, very easy to tune and work on and with a good barrel (some are garbage) are very very accurate.
If you intend to do any tuning to a weapon then get a chronograph first, the combro is an easy to use unit that is very good and cheap as chips.
check out http://ukchineseairgunforum.myfreeforum.org/ for whats being done with them over there. (some nice woodwork going on too)

I have a 78 in .177 which is setup for 10m target at 7lbft (have pushed it up into the 10's but not needed for 10m stuff) and has beaten a few much better pieces of equipment in it's time, doesn't come out much these days and thinking of selling it.
not in this guise will be putting it back to stock stock. ugly aint she. 





looks better in clearcoat





what I wont be selling on the other hand is the Webley raider, the AA s200 or the BSA Airsporter MkII, all in .177 all fantastic weapons and all bunny killers in there own right.
wont be selling the pistol anytime soon either.


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## ColeyS1 (1 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":14vhx13x said:


> ColeyS1":14vhx13x said:
> 
> 
> > Get an ultramultishot, then let the fun begin !
> ...


I had a bsa underlever before the ultra and the difference from the two was staggering ! No recoil what so ever and you should be able to get 5p groupings from 30yards easy peasey. I went for the 2.2 multishot (so 10 shot magazine) being good to go for another shot in under 2 seconds seemed mind blowing. You can quite easily drop 2-3 bunnies from a group before they realise somethings up and scarper. bunny bashing the ultra is fantastic. It seems short to start with but its definitely up to the job for vermin control. If you look on bsaog.co.uk you'll get an idea of what people think about the ultras, it's full of loads of useful information and like minded people


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## Graham Orm (1 Oct 2014)

ColeyS1":33s18vas said:


> Grayorm":33s18vas said:
> 
> 
> > ColeyS1":33s18vas said:
> ...



Cheers for that, just got to convince the money minder now !


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## Graham Orm (1 Oct 2014)

ColeyS1":2pz4g5zb said:


> Grayorm":2pz4g5zb said:
> 
> 
> > ColeyS1":2pz4g5zb said:
> ...



How do you charge them up?


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## ColeyS1 (1 Oct 2014)

Kind of like a vertical hand pump. If you google stirrup pump you'll get an idea of what it looks like- it's good exercise too :lol: Contributing members of bsaog get access to the forsale section. There's always someone selling an air rifle to upgrade or just for a change. If you can get to a gun shop, have a feel and see what you think. Once you find a pellet that works nicely there's very rarely anything that'll stop you getting good groupings.


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## woodfarmer (1 Oct 2014)

monkeybiter":31bbus34 said:


> woodfarmer":31bbus34 said:
> 
> 
> > If you decide to tune an air rifle you need to be careful you don't overdo it. On my Webley I -have- to use the heaviest of H & N pellets as anything lighter runs so fast it melts in the barrel and smears all over the rifling. This has to be cleaned and those that travel at that speed are not accurate as they aren't spinning.
> ...




Nope, it does diesel, but only for the first 2-3 shots or if left a while.

Used to use hobby pellets but no more, only the h and n 's will work. And they do not affect whether or not it diesels. Think if it was in .22 calibre it would be a good hunting rifle, although quite heavy. The Career 9mm was much lighter and had a lot of whack at short range but lose power much faster than a .22 rimfire.


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## Graham Orm (1 Oct 2014)

woodfarmer":2h6ilih6 said:


> t8hants":2h6ilih6 said:
> 
> 
> > Webley Mk III .22, and an Original Model 50.
> ...



Where do you hunt? From what I've read the law is very strict and the penalties are stiff.


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## monkeybiter (1 Oct 2014)

Poitiers looks to be in Western France.


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## woodfarmer (1 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":1ll5mdi7 said:


> woodfarmer":1ll5mdi7 said:
> 
> 
> > t8hants":1ll5mdi7 said:
> ...




When I lived in UK I had an FAC for .22 rimfire and 9.mm unlimited air weapon.. The 9mm air rifle pellets cost more than .22 rimfire rounds and although had more ft lb's from the barrel, lost power much quicker.


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## DennisCA (2 Oct 2014)

phil.p":hj1ic412 said:


> It seems strange now, but when I was about twelve years old many of the boys I knew had their own 410 shotguns, and would have laughed at anyone using an airgun.



Similar here. It's illegal to hunt with airguns though so mostly everyone who has a gun for hunting (about half the country) starts with a .22lr, airguns are mostly for kids and target practice and if you're found to hunt with one you're getting fine heavily and if you have real guns they'd probably be taken as well.


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## Graham Orm (2 Oct 2014)

DennisCA":5ndomii4 said:


> phil.p":5ndomii4 said:
> 
> 
> > It seems strange now, but when I was about twelve years old many of the boys I knew had their own 410 shotguns, and would have laughed at anyone using an airgun.
> ...



I assume that's to avoid injuring animals without having the power to kill on the first shot. Take a look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj5Aq7bz-tI
An air rifle that will take down a deer with one shot!


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## woodfarmer (3 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":innh86qn said:


> DennisCA":innh86qn said:
> 
> 
> > phil.p":innh86qn said:
> ...



No longer available, same for my Career 9mm.


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## Graham Orm (10 Oct 2014)

BRYAN":20jbvowt said:


> I have loads of old relics but the main workhorse is the Daystate Airwolf on Fac. Now that really is a good pie filler. @



Do you need a licence for that?


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## Graham Orm (10 Oct 2014)

paulm":1bi08csl said:


> I've gone through a few over the years but settled for the last few years on a Daystate Huntsman Classic pcp in .22, lovely handling bit of kit and as accurate as they come
> 
> Cheers, Paul




Lovely gun Paul. I've doen a lot of research since my first post. Daystate or BSA Ultra I think


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## paulm (11 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":49sk2z3y said:


> paulm":49sk2z3y said:
> 
> 
> > I've gone through a few over the years but settled for the last few years on a Daystate Huntsman Classic pcp in .22, lovely handling bit of kit and as accurate as they come
> ...



Sounds good 

I've been through A weirauch break barrel underlever (97 model maybe, I forget) which was great but single shot and very heavy, a bsa superten which I loved, it was ugly but great shot capacity and very accurate. Then a weirauch hw100, just as accurate but weighed a ton again, then finally the daystate which is at least as accurate as everything else but lighter and handles like a dream and looks lovely and simple and streamlined too 

I vaguely recall that some bsa models in the last ten (?) or so years may have had reliability issues but they may well have been sorted more recently, sorry I can't recall any specifics, if you're not seeing any bad press on the airgun forums then should be okay.

Cheers, Paul


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## llangatwgnedd (14 Oct 2014)

Hope I'm not to late posting my rifle, a Daystate Huntsman Regal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-09IJs ... e=youtu.be.

My other rifle is a BSA Supersport made in England 1993

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/11122772656/lightbox/


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## Graham Orm (14 Oct 2014)

llangatwgnedd":3apvkzzx said:


> Hope I'm not to late posting my rifle, a Daystate Huntsman Regal
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-09IJs ... e=youtu.be.
> 
> ...




Nice, I'd love a Daystate, but they're expensive. Do you use it much?


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## llangatwgnedd (14 Oct 2014)

The Huntsman is the lowest price rifle with Daystate.

I purchased the rifle back in January this year and paid £780 for it, £50 for silencer, £120 scopes and £160 for divers bottle. 

I did look at the Weihrauch, but it weight a ton.

I have always had a interest in target shooting, but turned down the opportunity to shoot in Bisley as a fourteen year old Army Cadet as my shoulder was black and blue after two weeks on the range firing Lee Enfields .303

I do intend in joining a rifle club near to me when I retire.

https://flic.kr/p/pEYMMj


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## Graham Orm (14 Oct 2014)

llangatwgnedd":1j3nz967 said:


> The Huntsman is the lowest price rifle with Daystate.
> 
> I purchased the rifle back in January this year and paid £780 for it, £50 for silencer, £120 scopes and £160 for divers bottle.
> 
> ...




Excellent, I don't think you can get much better than the Huntsman without spending silly money.


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## graduate_owner (14 Oct 2014)

My first was a Diana model 22, a bit of a toy. Then I had a BSA Cadet and a Cadet Major. The Major was nice. Then I bought a BSA Airsporter which had a fair clout to it. All of these were second hand. The only one I have now is a fairly old BSA Meteor .22 cal. which is not very powerful but then I don't use it much. If necessary I use a single barrel folding 12 bore or a 3-chamber .410 which between them take care of vermin. Not much use for plinking though, that's where the Meteor is fun.

K


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## Graham Orm (14 Oct 2014)

Anyone any experience of the Stoeger X20? Break-barrel that comes with suppressor and scope for as little as £150 http://www.guns.gb.com/contents/en-uk/p7143.html


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## woodfarmer (14 Oct 2014)

llangatwgnedd":onn9eb5v said:


> The Huntsman is the lowest price rifle with Daystate.
> 
> I purchased the rifle back in January this year and paid £780 for it, £50 for silencer, £120 scopes and £160 for divers bottle.
> 
> ...



Those Lee Enfields have quite a kick, remember using them at Thorney Island. Sten guns on the other hand just like to twist sideways and up


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## llangatwgnedd (15 Oct 2014)

We were only allowed to fire Sterling smg in single shot mode, probably for the reason you stated.

Gpmg's were also single shot on a tripod.


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## Graham Orm (31 Oct 2014)

My new purchase. Hatsan 4410 PCP with scope and moderator. 10 Shot repeater with 2 magazines. Full kit £335 new! Best deal in the country from a shop about 2 miles from me, I couldn't pass it up. The guy says he's sending out at least 1 per day at this price. The gun has great reviews.


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## ColeyS1 (31 Oct 2014)

Looks the part ! Have you fired any shots with it yet ?


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## Graham Orm (31 Oct 2014)

Only 30 or so, not at range in the garden. It's a big Turkish manufacturer.


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## doctor Bob (31 Oct 2014)

I have a webley vulcan .22, hice big scope and a silencer, rabbit control on my wifes dog training paddocks, it's got a bit rusty on the barrel anyway of cleaning it up?


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## paulm (31 Oct 2014)

Looks the business Grayorm  Not heard of the make before but if it's getting good reviews that's reassuring.

Cheers, Paul


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## Graham Orm (31 Oct 2014)

Great reviews Paul, in the top 3 under £500 along side the BSA Multi. I was looking for a Multi shot but couldn't find a second hand package that I could afford and spotted this. No brainer.


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## Petey83 (2 Nov 2014)

Air Arms EV2, Tuned HW97k, Tuned HW77k, HW101.... actually been looking into having a go at making a stock for the HW101 pcp


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## Graham Orm (2 Nov 2014)

Petey83":3oo3djqh said:


> Air Arms EV2, Tuned HW97k, Tuned HW77k, HW101.... actually been looking into having a go at making a stock for the HW101 pcp



How tuned? Does it risk taking them over the legal limit?


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