# Disaster with a trend diamond stone



## Gary M (12 Sep 2008)

Hi all, 
I thought i would share my disaster with you all. 
I bought a double sided trend diamond stone, 7" x 2.5" course one side and fine on the other. 
I picked up a few old chisels a few days ago, and decided to work on them today. 
As i have read on various posts, WD40 is a recommended lubricant. 
So i set about flattening the back of the first chisel, squirt of WD40 and away i went. 
Checking progress, i was surprised that it was taking so long, so after a few minutes i thought it must be clogged up with removed metal. 
I dried it and gave it a rub with the cleaning rubber supplied with it. 
To my horror there is a large patch on the stone where the diamonds used to be :shock: 
I will post some pics tomorrow. 
Has anyone any idea what could have caused this ?? 
The instructions clearly state that it is guaranteed for five years if you use trend lapping fluid. It also stated it is not guaranteed if it is used incorrectly  
I fear that the WD40 has done the damage, and as it is not the correct lubricating fluid, my guarantee is void ?? 
Any opinions ?? 
Cheers, 
Gary.


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## Paul Chapman (13 Sep 2008)

I have no experience of the Trend stones, but have used DMT diamond stones (the polka dot ones) for many years (at least 10) with either WD40 or 3-in-1 oil with no ill effects. The DMT website says it's OK to use oil on their stones. Several others on here also use oil of various types on their diamond stones (WD40,; 3-in-1;lamp oil; Johnsons baby oil; and others) so I would be surprised if the oil has caused the problem :?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Philly (13 Sep 2008)

Gary
I'd return the stone for a replacement - there is a high percentage of failure in diamond plate manufacturing. You should have no problem getting a replacement - the diamonds are _supposed_ to stay on the stone :wink: 
Hope this helps
Philly


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## Karl (13 Sep 2008)

Hi Gary

I've got one of these stones, and have used various lubricants with it, including 3-in1, WD40, Camelia oil and water (or whatever else is on hand).

Like Philly says, i'd return it for a refund/replacement. I don't think you'll have any trouble.

Cheers

Karl


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## wizer (13 Sep 2008)

is the area completely smooth? Or is there just a noticeable visual difference but still rough to the touch? I have had a similar thing happen with my EZE Laps and assumed it's a kind of bedding in? The other thing I have since learned is not to press to hard on diamond stones.

Certainly if the diamonds have completely shed, then send it right back!


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## Waka (13 Sep 2008)

Gary

I had the same problem last year, sent it back to CHT and a replacement was sent.


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## Gary M (13 Sep 2008)

Thanks for the replies,
few pics,












Im glad to hear its not my fault  
So i will send it back and see what happens
Many thanks,
Gary.


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## Rich (13 Sep 2008)

Well Gary, considering that the only thing on earth that can damage diamonds, are diamonds themselves, I would say you have been sold sub-standard goods, grounds enough for replacement FOC, I'd say.

Regards,

Rich.


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## Vormulac (14 Sep 2008)

This happened to my Trend stone too, to be honest I haven't examined it *that* closely ever since I put it away in disgust last year, so I don't know if it stripped the diamond like I thought or whether it was maybe just 'bedded in'. It was certainly markedly different across the centre of the stone even though I always endeavour to use the whole surface as evenly as possible. Looks just like Gary's pictures of his stone if I remember correctly.


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## Waka (14 Sep 2008)

Vormulac":30zsdob9 said:


> This happened to my Trend stone too, to be honest I haven't examined it *that* closely ever since I put it away in disgust last year, so I don't know if it stripped the diamond like I thought or whether it was maybe just 'bedded in'. It was certainly markedly different across the centre of the stone even though I always endeavour to use the whole surface as evenly as possible. Looks just like Gary's pictures of his stone if I remember correctly.



Not sure but I think these Trend stones come with a 5 years guarantee, so you should still be able to change it.


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## simuk (14 Sep 2008)

Can someone please explain the term bedding in when applied to diamond stones, as i have recently purchased a DMT Dia Sharp stone. 
And when flattening the back of a chisel, a diamond came out, and was trapped between the chisel & stone, which gouge the stone quite noticeably. This happened several times. There are no visible patches that i can see like Gary M


Simon


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## Handrubbed (16 Sep 2008)

Interesting how diamond stones are falling out of favor with woodworkers. I have never had a very good experience with diamond stones, and have posted many times that I felt they were not a good investment for the hand tool sharpener. Now, most of the posts around the various forums report rapid degradation of diamond stones or even failure; such as in this thread. I think this is a shame, because diamond stones seemed to be such a good solution to the problems we face in tool sharpening. I still use mine occasionally for things such as scissors or router bits, where they provide a good surface to register the tool against. In general, they do not approach the keenness required to get a top notch edge on planes and chisels.


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## simuk (16 Sep 2008)

Update:
I have e-mailed dmt, 

They informed me that it might have been a been caused by a small nickel nodule that broke free during flattening of my chisel back. Any scratches visible should not affect the performance of the whetstone and there is no need to be concerned!

Simon


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## Jake (16 Sep 2008)

Handrubbed":2zgtkez8 said:


> Interesting how diamond stones are falling out of favor with woodworkers. I have never had a very good experience with diamond stones, and have posted many times that I felt they were not a good investment for the hand tool sharpener. Now, most of the posts around the various forums report rapid degradation of diamond stones or even failure; such as in this thread.



I think one of the problems is that there are a lot of cheaper chinese sourced stones around, as well as the age old problem that one person (or ten people) with a bad experience tend to make more noise than a hundred (or ten thousand) with a good experience.

Generally, on this forum, those with DMT stones at least seem to be very happy. I've never had trouble with mine.



> I think this is a shame, because diamond stones seemed to be such a good solution to the problems we face in tool sharpening. I still use mine occasionally for things such as scissors or router bits, where they provide a good surface to register the tool against. In general, they do not approach the keenness required to get a top notch edge on planes and chisels.



Well, they don't go to the very finest grit, if that's what you mean, but that's easily solved by adding a last stage of spyderco or honing. If that it isn't what you mean, I haven't got a clue what you do mean.

For what it's worth, I went from waterstones to diamonds a few years back and every time I sharpen I am grateful that I did.


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## Digit (16 Sep 2008)

Bedding in Simon, as I understand it, is the manner in which the 'feel' of the stone changes after you first use it.
From new they feel rather coarse, as though you've been supplied with perhaps a coarser grade than you asked for.
As you use them the surface feel changes and becomes finer, in fact they can feel as if the diamonds have all worn away. The stone is now 'bedded in'. 

Roy.


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## marcus (17 Sep 2008)

> In general, they do not approach the keenness required to get a top notch edge on planes and chisels.



My DMT Ultra Fine is 1000+ grit and in a few seconds gives me an edge that's sharp enough to slice hairs. Does anyone actually need to get a sharper edge than this on a regular basis?! 

Marcus


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## tnimble (17 Sep 2008)

What is this goal of bald patches when sharpening chisels and plane blades? The ease of cut and finish are the standard to needed sharpness, right? We're woodworkers not barbers.


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## marcus (17 Sep 2008)

> What is this goal of bald patches when sharpening chisels and plane blades?



I think the appearance of bald spots was a source of complaint, not an ambition!  

Marcus


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## simuk (17 Sep 2008)

Digit":1lz4u4z4 said:


> Bedding in Simon, as I understand it, is the manner in which the 'feel' of the stone changes after you first use it.
> From new they feel rather coarse, as though you've been supplied with perhaps a coarser grade than you asked for.
> As you use them the surface feel changes and becomes finer, in fact they can feel as if the diamonds have all worn away. The stone is now 'bedded in'.
> 
> Roy.



Thanks for taking the time to explain (Bedding in) Roy

Simon


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## Shrubby (18 Sep 2008)

The diamonds are held onto the steel with nickel plating, the initial roughness is this nickel - this quickly wears off revealing the diamonds 
The diamonds can be plucked out of the nickel, particularly if you rub pointy bits of metal over them, or near edges - lots of those on the dotty stones
(My dmt have all retired due to baldness and unflatness)
Matt


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## Jake (18 Sep 2008)

Shrubby":2327j03f said:


> (My dmt have all retired due to baldness and unflatness)
> Matt



Interesting. I'd send them back to DMT, as they guarantee the flatness. I can't see the steel/plastic would have warped or bent (absent abuse) so the age shouldn't be an issue. 

They also have an open ended guarantee on quality generally, so I'd complain about the baldness too! 

If you can't be bothered, I'll give you a fiver each inc p&p, and test their customer service myself, as I reckon they would come through.

For what it is worth, I reckon you would have to abuse a DMT to get it to go bald (at all), unless it is defective in the first place, which is a good reason for seeking a refund in my book. That might be overconfidence from having a good set of stones, I suppose.

I'm not so sure about the cheaper poly-crystalline stones, for which it sounds (if my sketchy understanding hold up) as if baldness would be easier to achieve by the crystals shearing off, without having to literally rip all the stones out of the nickel matrix. I mean, those nickel matrices last pretty well on angle grinder and tile saw blades, where they get a much, much, much harder time than anyone would give a bench stone.


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## Shrubby (18 Sep 2008)

Sorry jake - i've been down that route.The stones were returned and replaced several times and I sold the last replacement.
The flatness is the big issue . Cutting discs are I believe a different technology.Engineers will use diamond wheels on machinery(e.g. to sharpen tooling) maybe the same manufacturers do lapping plates?
The last few metalworkers I have met use Eze-Laps, perhaps they ignore all the marketing stuff
Still looking at solutions though
Regards Matt


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## ivan (19 Sep 2008)

I've had an eze lap polycrystaline 600 grit plate for about 15 years. The poly = multiple crystals, fracture to keep the stone sharp, or fracture and wear out quicker, according to who's telling the story. I've also a blue DMT of the same vintage. Both still cut well, although a nasty inclusion in a Stanley chisel gouged some tracks in the eze lap. This happened over 10 years ago but the plate has not deteriorated as a result.


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## Jake (19 Sep 2008)

Shrubby":2u2mzg0h said:


> Sorry jake - i've been down that route.The stones were returned and replaced several times and I sold the last replacement.



Ah shame, it would have been a nice test of their response to this kind of oft-talked about issue, given that I can't get mine to misbehave yet (touch wood). I read too much into your 'my dmts have all retired' I guess. 

I'll check mine again at the weekend, but when I bought them, they were flat (as in really flat).



> The flatness is the big issue .



Well, it has to be said that baldness would also be a massive issue for a sharpening stone!



> discs are I believe a different technology.



In what way? Might well be so, but they are still diamonds in a nickel matrix.



> Engineers will use diamond wheels on machinery(e.g. to sharpen tooling) maybe the same manufacturers do lapping plates?
> The last few metalworkers I have met use Eze-Laps, perhaps they ignore all the marketing stuff



Maybe, or maybe they fall for someone else's, maybe they like the price, whatever. I've got nothing against them, just no experience of them. They have lots of satisfied customers as well, so maybe you'll have better luck with them.


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## Gary M (19 Sep 2008)

Hi 
Quick update, 
I returned the stone and got a replacement no problem (i thought) 
So of course wanted to try out the new one straight away. 
Using water this time, i proceeded to work on one of the marples chisels i use at work. Nice course grinding for all of about a minute then the cutting sound seemed to fade away :shock: 
I cleaned off the stone to find that the diamonds have became *a lot *smoother. 
Turning the stone i tried the fine side, it started to cut more aggressively than the course side was :shock: then it too seemed to become *very smooth*. 
Now i know that diamonds bed in, but this is ridiculous. Surely they should cut much faster than an oilstone (which i normally use). 
When i dry it off with a cloth i can hear the abrasive , but to the touch it feels very smooth on both sides, and it takes an age to get an edge of any sort. 
I am not a happy camper :evil: 
Trend have definitely gone way way down in my book :x
Cheers,
Gary.


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## Hatherton_wood (21 Sep 2008)

Diamond stones have always lost their cutting edge quite quickly for me. Just because diamonds are the hardest known material does not mean that they wont wear out. I've always had better results with wet and dry paper stuck to glass plate - cheap and lots of grades to choose from


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## Frank House (27 Sep 2008)

There has been some discussion on Wood Central about diamonds applied to cast iron laps.

Advantages: diamond paste is cheap, diamonds embed in iron - not attached by nickel plating, renewable when cutting slows.

Disadvantages: lap needs to be flat, cast iron flats are expensive.

I have tried the technique on small V carving chisels with a wedge-shaped steel lap, seems promising. I am currently trying to flatten some cast iron frying pan bottoms - hard work but I hope to get there soon. Can be very cheap even new, pennies if you get lucky in a charity shop.

Old plane bottoms have been suggested.

Work in progress, I'll finish "real soon now", i.e. not this year  .

Frank


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## joiner_sim (30 Sep 2008)

I have an EZE LAP diamond stone and have been using it now for about 3 years. Generally no problems.... Until earlier this year.... it seemed as if the stone wore away and I couldn't sharpen on half of the stone. Another joiner suggested wiping some white spirit on it. Problem solved.


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## woodbloke (1 Oct 2008)

I've got the green DMT extra fine stone and found that when new, the cut was very harsh, but after some bedding in, the stone works very well. When I run a finger across the matrix it _feels_ as if there are no diamonds left...very smooth. The proof of course is in the pudding (or stone  ) as it still cuts quite rapidly. Final micro-bevel though is done with a Spyderco 10000g ceramic - Rob


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## ike (1 Oct 2008)

I'l bet a pound to a penny that most problems with continuous diamond stones are simply due to clogging. At worst, some fluid and a wire brush will 'bring it back'. It's true that the 'bedding in' is the removal of the uppermost part of the nickel matrix - it's expected. Anyone concerned with a diamond plate more than 1/2 thou out of flatness - I think they have lost the perspective - completely.


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## Chris Knight (2 Oct 2008)

I think the mistake made by most folk new to this is to use diamond stones inappropriately. I'll bet a pound to a penny that the smooth feeling stones are still cutting - just not very fast. If you start with a clear fluid which becomes dark, that's the metal particles you are grinding away and shows the stone is indeed working.

The thing is to use a sufficiently coarse stone to do the early donkey work and then to use diamond stones for putting the edge on the tool. The coarse stone can be anything as long as it cuts quickly. 

Preparing the edge, the goal is that any operation should remove scratches left by previous work ON THE EDGE - it's pointless to waste time worrying about the whole bevel.

When flattening chisel backs, the same thing applies except that in this case, you will want to remove scratches from most of the back - at least the first couple of inches back from the edge.

It is exactly analogous to the use of sandpaper on wood - you'd never use a 360 grit to start sanding a piece of rough wood, an 80 grit, 100, 120 180, 240 sequence might be followed with little time needed on each if you don't skip the intermediate grits. The bigger the grit jumps, the more time needed to remove scratches left by the coarser grades


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## whoops! (6 Oct 2008)

I bought a trend diamond stone a couple of years ago, after the first couple of sharpenings on it It went the way of the earlier photo's, i.e bald. I returned the stone and the replacement has been in frequent use both in the workshop and on site.

I always ensure that I thoroughly clean the stone with a rubber, and I only use the Trend honing fluid.The sharpening is not as quick as on my Tormek, but you cant lug a Tormek around on site.

On the whole really pleased with it after my initial disappointment  , just as a matter of interest I use it with the Veritas mk2 honing guide- now that is a fab piece of kit!!! :lol: 

Decklan


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## simuk (31 Oct 2008)

I am now sending back the DMT Dia Sharp 8000g stone that i purchased a couple months ago, as the nickel is peeling from the face of the stone, as well as nickle nodules breaking free.

Simon


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## Mr Ed (31 Oct 2008)

Interesting

I've just ordered the DMT extra extra fine stone, mainly on the basis that my DMT red/green stone has been fine for years.

Hope I don't have the problems other people are talking about!

Cheers, Ed


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## wizer (31 Oct 2008)

indeed, I will keep an eye on this. I received the XXC today.


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## Benchwayze (1 Nov 2008)

I am quite happy with diamond stones and mine is a few years old. I always use water as a lubricant, but I have to be sure to wipe it dry after use of course. Never had a problem and it is great for the initial flatting of chisel and iron backs. 

I think mine is a DMT brand. Expensive when I bought it, which was around the time they first emerged onto the market. 

Regards, John


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## Derek Willis. (5 Nov 2008)

Of course you must send it back, I have been using a variety of diamond stones for about 14yrs. with no problems whatsoever.
Derek.


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## [email protected] (12 Nov 2008)

Gary M":33dha7bv said:


> Hi
> Quick update,
> I returned the stone and got a replacement no problem (i thought)
> So of course wanted to try out the new one straight away.
> ...



Hi Gary M,

If you are still having problems with your diamond stone, please contact our customer services department on 01923 212497.

There may have been a batch issue related to the time that your stone was purchased.

HTH

[email protected]


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## davebray (13 Nov 2008)

wizer":3qttl7si said:


> indeed, I will keep an eye on this. I received the XXC today.



Hi there Wizer,
I was thinking of getting an DMT extra extra coarse stone. How are you getting on with your new one?.

I've had a DMT extra fine (8x3 1200g) stone for about 3 years now and I've had no problems with nickel flaking off mine.
I've got a DMT blue/red (8x3) but I prefer using my EZELaps (250g, 400g, 600g).
Cheers
Dave


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## wizer (14 Nov 2008)

no probs so far. It removed material extremely quick, which is just what I needed.


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## davebray (14 Nov 2008)

Thanks for the feedback Wizer.
I think I will get the DMT XXC.
Cheers
Dave


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## Peter Capon (16 Aug 2020)

I bought a Eze-Lap 250/600 and it works perfectly but I needed something coarser to cut some poorly sharpened plane blades so I ordered a 150/400. This worked fine for a while but the 150 side stopped cutting metal it just polished it. I tried clean the stone with hot soapy water, kerosene, and even brake cleaner and it still won't cut metal hardly any swarf, whereas the 400 side cuts like a dream loads of swarf. Contacted the supplier and they said return it and they will give a full refund. They said this is unusual and had not had this problem before so it's probably a one off. Other than that diamond stone are definitely the way to go. I have a 1000/8000 whetstone that I use for the final edge.


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## Eric The Viking (16 Aug 2020)

Apparently excessive pressure can "liberate" the diamond chips from the surface.

I think I was once told that the chips are spread on the surface, followed by an electroplating process to build up metal around them to keep them in place. Physical force can crack the plating surrounding the chips and let them break loose.

I buy the cheaper sets, as I don't really use them for sharpening woodworking tools, and I have found the coarsest plates have the shortest life. I assume loss of diamond is the reason.

The scruffy old pair I keep in the kitchen for the kitchen knives* seem to go on forever, despite being used wet, dry and with/without washing-up liquid. The constant factors are that I tend to use quite light pressure (as with all abrasives, let it do the work as much as possible, and clean the abrasive surface often), and that it's done by eye and feel rather than any sort of jig. But even so, the coarse plate has dulled-off compared to the fine one, which seems to go on forever.

See how you get on with your replacement, but try being as gentle as possible, with a lot of water lubrication (to carry swarf away). If you must make heavy strokes, do them when pulling the edge across the plate, rather than pushing it. Decades ago, when I first encountered a diamond plate, the friend who owned it told me he kept a container of water with Fernox central-heating corrosion proofer in it (usual dilution), so that his tools didn't rust. I've never done that, but it certainly worked for him. nowadays I wouldn't know which formulation to choose, anyway!

E.

*we don't have excellent knives, but I manage to usually keep a decent edge on one Richardson, which everyone else in the family is under strict instructions not to play with!


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

Gary M said:


> Hi
> Quick update,
> I returned the stone and got a replacement no problem (i thought)
> So of course wanted to try out the new one straight away.
> ...



OK, what you're seeing is a matter of poor grading and monocrystalline diamonds (which at least a short while ago were the cheapest type - either type works fine, though -that's a discussion for another time). 

What happens with electroplate hones is that the large diamonds in the group stick up and they don't wear off, they get pulled off. This is true for DMT and not just trend. 

As far as I know, trend is a chinese-made hone and other than being slightly flatter than the $25 8x3 milled diamond hones on ebay, I'm not sure what advantage it might have as I'm using a chinese-made hone that's several years old. 

No worries on your first one. WD-40 is no threat to electroplate - trend pushes their honing fluid - my opinion - because they want to take something cheap ( a mixture of mineral spirits and naptha) and make a gigantic margin on it. Sort of like their plates. If a plate loses a section of plate without having something that reacts with the plate itself, then it's defective. 

Diamonds bedding in is a matter of what occurs when you use plain cast iron, they stick in the softer surface and skid across the harder (your tools), but they sit on nickel electroplate and don't dig in - the slowing down is them coming off. That will continue to occur over time and the diamond hone will become slower than an equivalent waterstone (like a shapton 1k). I you want to use one long term, the trick is to get one that's more coarse than you think you want (e.g., if you want something like a 1200 stone, then an ezelap 600 is a good place to start. It'll be like a 300 stone when you first get it, but settle in to much finer pretty quickly). 

For most tools, a slurried oilstone will cut faster than a diamond stone, and something like a fine india much faster. Only when you get to really high hardness or a complex alloy will that change and the reality is that in the cycle of actual use, the complex alloys just aren't that much better (often worse).


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

Eric The Viking said:


> Apparently excessive pressure can "liberate" the diamond chips from the surface.



Think of ice (super hard steel) vs. cork. It's not totally accurate to say that, but let's say it is for conceptual purposes. 

If you have a surface of stones glued with hot glue to it and you take a big block of ice (or even polished hardened steel), it will slide across the stones and get scratched some, but they can't penetrate in. 

If you take a piece of cork and run it across the stones, they'll get stuck in it and the glue won't hold on strong enough and they'll leave in the cork. 

pressure is one thing - it can slow down a diamond hone, but it doesn't usually remove the well bedded diamonds. Laminated steel in japanese chisels or old blades will accelerate things because the soft part of the tool will grab the diamonds and tug them each time it goes by (the super hard layer will skate across the tops of the diamonds and be abraded, just not as deeply).


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

tricked by necroposts!!


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## Eric The Viking (16 Aug 2020)

Possibly so, DW, but your comments are useful nonetheless!


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

Looking at the MSDS between trend lapping fluid (which they push over WD 40, in my opinion, because you can get WD 40 inexpensively).

* it's what we call mineral spirits over here, and a slow drying naptha (at least that's what I gather the modification of the naptha is - so that it doesn't flash off and leave the plate right away). 

* Look at the SDS of WD-40, it's more or less light paraffin oils and napthas. I haven't used trend honing fluid, but I have mineral spirits and naptha - you can get an idea of what the expensive stuff will work like using a mix of the two, but without being a chemist, I'd guess the naptha will flash off. 

Of course, if you use WD-40, you'll never have a problem and if the stone seems slow, it's not the WD-40 - it's that the stone is slow. If the fluid ever dries a little bit on a diamond hone from lack of use, the solution is simple (probably for both). Put a little bit more on the next time you use the hone and it will cut into itself and clean off just from use. 

Long story short, they're both made of inexpensive petroleum products, not very much different. They had a youtube video up touting how much better it was than stuff like WD40 because it's thinner feeling. I posted their SDS in the comments and they took the video offline the next day. Of course, there's no proof that that is related, but I did ask the question about why it was so expensive. It's easy on youtube just to make comments like that disappear without notifying the poster (I wouldn't have done anything about it, anyway)

Norton does the same thing to some extent over here, but the price isn't as extreme (they package a good quality plain white mineral oil in bottles, and at some point in the past, must've made a comparison to woodworkers of other oils that still oxidize, stink and perhaps change - leading people to believe there's something drastically different about their oil. The SDS allows you to go see the CAS number for the oil and just buy a gallon of it elsewhere...

...or in my case, I bought a gallon of oil, and then later found out it was the same spec. A pint of norton oil usually costs about the same as a gallon of the same oil used for commercial kitchen equipment maintenance, and once it's inexpensive, you'll find all kinds of uses for it - like mixing with beeswax 50/50.


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## AESamuel (16 Aug 2020)

I don't like using any kind of lubricant while sharpening. It seems counter intuitive to me to lubricate when I'm trying to abrade something, unless its final polishing.
I see a sharpening fluid purely as a way to carry swarf away to promote a clean stone and keep the abrasive clear for sharpening efficiency.

I first used glass cleaner, as suggested by many others, but every brand I tried caused rust. Same goes for water with detergent. I also tried lapping fluids, and though they do work. However, many evaporated too quickly so it was difficult to remove the swarf and I would have to add more after sharpening just for cleaning.

What I use now for diamond stones, ceramic waterstones - and scary sharp when the mood takes me - is a corrosion inhibitor additive for water. It seems expensive at first but as it is a concentrate which dilutes into water, it actually works out the same price as glass cleaner.
It's light as water, does t affect sharpening speed and I've never had a problem with rust. In fact I put a small puddle of the water with additive on a plane iron and left it for days. No rust, and the puddle eventually just evaporated.


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

I've never experimented across the board, but there are some cases where the lubricant makes the stone behave differently. For example, a washita (my favorite thing in the world, practically) once settled in will cease cutting with water - no more black appears on a stone. 

WD40, however, and with a heavy hand, the stone never stops cutting. 

On diamond hones, I find WD40 useful, but it's not essential as long as the stone isn't caked up. If the steel is hard, the stone isn't caked, etc, the steel should skid across the diamonds without presenting any problems. Not sure which works faster in theory - the diamonds cut so deep that a thin fluid doesn't seem to slow them down from it. On other stones, like a japanese waterstone, the stone will continue to cut with water, and then cease to do it dry. I have no idea what the explanations for all of these things are and don't want to wade into figuring out the why as long as the what can be repeated. 

Long story short, either way is fine (with or without lubricant) on a diamond hone. As work gets more coarse, the thing that makes a crystolon so much faster than diamond hones is that the cutting pattern is closer to optimal, they cut everything, and in an oil bath, the particles and steel are gone - as you say - they remove the waste from the process and at that level (grinding), it's necessary. 

I have just about every imaginable stone from any main system (synthetic waterstones, probably 40 of them at this point even though I don't use them, synthetic and natural (From two different continents) oilstones and japanese natural stones all the way down to what would've been a grinding stone in japan. Below the fine finish stones, the japanese natural stones just aren't that great, and it was a surprise to find that setting up and maintaining the japanese tools is faster on a synthetic oilstone rotation finished with a natural oilstone than it is with japanese stones. 

I shouldn't downplay how mediocre the japanese options are below about 4000 grit in natural stones - they suck big time.


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## D_W (16 Aug 2020)

(Coarse synthetic waterstones suck hard, too - the water will never be good at carrying coarse swarf and large particles away. They are garbage - absolutely unworkable - compared to a norton medium crystolon in an IM 313 and there's no way to make up for the advantage that mineral oil on the crystolon provides).


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## clogs (17 Aug 2020)

be lost without mine.....bought mine in the States years ago......
I only use water (flooded) never been a prob......
the main reason for changing from oils stones was the MESS......
my oil stones are only used for tickling stanley blades....they are all outta shape anyway....


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