# What vinegar for Ebonizing???



## Paul.J (6 Aug 2009)

Is there a specific vinegar type that is best used for ebonizing :?: 
After raiding the cupboards i have found a bottle of White wine vinegar a bottle of Cider vinegar,plus the Malt,not whiskey, for me chips :lol: 
Will any of those do,or is there another i should use :?: 
Also how long does the smell last when it's been applied :?: 
And,how much do you need to use/mix with the wire wool,nails etc :?:


----------



## TEP (6 Aug 2009)

Hi Paul.

Any vinegar will do, but use the cheapest.

IME don't use wire wool, by the time you leave it outside to rust then put it into the vinegar you end up with a lot of dust and muck in the bottom. Better to let a few screws or nails get rusty, then use them. That way you can take them out if wanted, and you don't end up using rusty dust.

I use about a dozen nails to about 1/4 pint. Never seen a specified amount ever mentioned just make sure they are rusty.


----------



## Bodrighy (6 Aug 2009)

I thought that was only for oak? Does it work with other woods as well then? 

Pete


----------



## TEP (7 Aug 2009)

Hi Pete.

Vinegar and rusty nails will ebonize any timber with a strong 'tannin' content. The higher the tannin content the darker it will go. You can make it a bit darker by multiple coats, but that only takes it so far. It's the tannin that really counts.


----------



## Paul.J (7 Aug 2009)

Thanks *Tam*.I will just use rusty nails screws i think.
*Pete*.I am using it on a piece of Oak so all been well it should be ok,especially looking at me lathe,tools, etc now with all the tannin that has come out of it :shock:


----------



## jaymar (7 Aug 2009)

I found that vinegar alone, applied with wire wool, did the trick with oak.


----------



## mark sanger (8 Aug 2009)

I have been meaning to try this idea for years. 

I will make some up and give it a go. 

Thanks for the info.


----------



## johnny.t. (9 Aug 2009)

I just use steel wool in whatever vinegar is in the cupboard,usually the stuff from the chippy :lol:.

I just pop the wool in an old glass, whack in some vinegar leave for an hour or so and it works a treat  I got a pack of 'stanley' branded steel wool and so far I've used only two of the grades in it but one gives a very black colour and the other a dark blue.So I guess different steels can give differing colours.

HTH JT


----------



## Gordon T (19 Aug 2009)

Hello all, I have always used malt vinegar and shiny new wire wool with good results. Just leave it overnight to ferment, I have only used it on oak, but it turns bangles and small bowls a lovely shade of black, and does not hide the grain pattern either.

GT


----------



## big soft moose (19 Aug 2009)

Yep my experience is the same , you can use wire wool without waiting for it to go rusty - in fact since it is the iron that reacts with the tannic acid non rusty is better as with rust (iron oxide) the tannic acid/ and the acetic acid in the vinegar first have to break the bonds between the iron and the oxygen molecule.

I usually by five litres of the cheapest possible malt vinegar from tesco as this avoids conflict with swimbo over nicking stuff out the kitchen. You can also use lemon juice (citric acid) as its the mild acidity that is important.

In fact you could use stronger acids with equal success but this would require protective equipment and rinsing the work piece afterwards so are best avoided.

Another possible way or darkening oak is to fume it with household ammonia - but this isnt very nice stuff to work with and as an explosive precursor is becoming harder to get you hands on.

For my money if you are only doing little bits liberon patinating wax works as well as anything else and is definitely the easiest - you just apply with a cloth then buff off with the lathe running - however for big bits it can get expensive so here the wire wool and vinegar is definitely the way forward.


----------



## Paul.J (19 Aug 2009)

Thanks for the replies  
I have now tried the rusty nails and wool.No good.  
Then the wire wool on it's own.Still no good.   
But i have used the white wine vinegar which was in the cupboard so it could be that :? 
Apart from the smell though i thinkl i will stick to the spray or the patinating wax sounds good


----------



## big soft moose (19 Aug 2009)

Paul.J":2sd3ihbh said:


> Thanks for the replies
> I have now tried the rusty nails and wool.No good.
> Then the wire wool on it's own.Still no good.
> But i have used the white wine vinegar which was in the cupboard so it could be that :?
> Apart from the smell though i thinkl i will stick to the spray or the patinating wax sounds good



two points we may of missed is that it works better with wetter oak than with very dry stuff , and also you get better results from plonking a wad of steel wool in a jar of vinegar and just leaving it there to masrinade than you do if you just apply the vinegar with the wool fresh.


----------



## Paul.J (20 Aug 2009)

Thank you Pete.
I have tried my concoction on both wet and dry Oak,having the same results on both pieces,which was just a very dull washed out pale grey colour :?


----------



## frugal (21 Aug 2009)

I have had good results on oak by shoving a wad of wire wool into a jam jar full of Sarsons malt vinegar and leaving it for a couple of days (with the lid off as it bubbles a bit and I did not want it exploding with any build up of gasses). The wire wool was near the end of it's life as I had perviously been using it to polish up my steel sallet (no point in using fresh stuff).

I applied it liberarly with a small paint brush. The first coat made the oak a pale blue-grey, but as more and more coats were added the colour got darker. Although I did find that they started to go brown as the small particlaes of rust from the solution were being left behind and then drying out to a nice rust brown, but a wipe with a cloth got rid of that and left a nice dark grey, almost black colour. A coat of dark wax helped bring out the colour a bit more.

After I had finished I had quite a bit left, so I used a coffee filter paper and filtered it into a fresh jar for later use. that was about 2 months ago so I should really try it to see if it is any good any more


----------



## big soft moose (21 Aug 2009)

Paul.J":oofpfome said:


> Thank you Pete.
> I have tried my concoction on both wet and dry Oak,having the same results on both pieces,which was just a very dull washed out pale grey colour :?



two other possibilities are

a) (as recomended by paul clare - in tony boase's wood turning master class) to dunk the work in a bucket of ferrous sulphate - two key points here are to wear rubber gloves and eye pro as ferrous sulphate isnt fantastic stuff to get on you (its basically the same stuff as some sorts of moss killer), and b) to rinse the workpiece down thouroughly with a hose afterwards

b) (as recomended by tony boase himself in the folow up bowl turning masterclass) to simply lightly char the work with a butane/propane blow torch - 3 points here 1) remove flamable stuff (e.g heaps of shavings) from the work area first, 2) wait until the air is clear of dust - you do not want a dust explosion, and 3) remember if using spalted wood that the rotten areas will char more quickly than the sound wood which can lead to an uneven surface if your not careful


----------



## Paul.J (22 Aug 2009)

:shock: :shock: :? :? 
Getting beyond me now.
As i say i think i will just use the spray for smaller pieces,and perhaps have another go at the vinegar,malt next time though,method for larger areas :shock:


----------

