# Irish grind? and bowl gouge questions



## Alie Barnes (29 Aug 2009)

No not a dance for the drunken irishman!

Ive been looking into getting a new bowl gouges.

Ive been looking at the irish grind and wondering whether its worth it?
is there any difference between that and the normal grind for bowl gouges.

Ive got a traditional 3/8 gouge and was wondering if its worth going any larger than that or will that pretty much cover me for most things?

Thanks all


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## John. B (29 Aug 2009)

Hello Alie. Why not try it? 
If it works for you it's a better grind.
If it doesn't, regrind to one that does.
A gouge grind is subjective and personal, the best grind is the one that peforms best for you. 
Turners will, (or should) experiment with different grinds to find the one that works best for them which is why the question cannot be answered.
Each person works in different ways and has his own way of presenting a tool to the work, so the only way to get the best out of it is to experiment by grinding new angles.
And that is why leading turners have signature tools, their grind works better for them but not neccessarily for you. (It's also extra income for them)

So, try it, what do you have to lose? - a little bit of metal.
What do you have to gain? - experiance in sharpening and turning, and whole new way of working.
Now aint that fun?

John. B


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## Roy_H (29 Aug 2009)

Without wishing to hijack this thread...I'm in exactly the same position as Alie and was going to ask this question on here.
I have two bowl gouges, one is my old traditional grind from Peter Child's back in the 1970s, bought when that was all you could get. The other is a recently acquired Henry Taylor HS40.


 HS40 at the top, Sorby trad grind at bottom.



 HS40 on left.

The grind on both is pretty much as they have always been from new and I'd appreciate any comments on the shape, angles, etc.

I find both useful, but very different in behaviour. I'd like to try the 'Irish' grind, but want to keep both of these intact. What would be the best gouge to get to regrind to the 'Ellsworth' or 'Irish' profile - assuming that these are the same thing? :-k 
Or can you buy one ready-ground? :duno:


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## Alie Barnes (29 Aug 2009)

You can buy a RS "irish" grind from places like tool post which is what i have been looking at. I tried experimenting recently with an old Gouge to get the irish grind on it and failed miserably. I was using the RS universal sharpening system. So this is why im kinda looking to buy one.


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## cornucopia (29 Aug 2009)

heres my main bowl gouge- 















this one is an ashley isles 5/8" gouge, i've also owned sorby and I have a henry taylor superflute.
This gouge isn't ground back as far as david ellsworth's- its kind off the middle ground between a conventinal bevel and an ellsworth.

the shape of the flute plays a big part in how the gouge behaves- i prefer the "u" shaped flute as i find the "v" shape to be slightly unstable in use but brillant for aggressive bulk removal.

I use this gouge for 90% of the outside of my hollow forms and the majority of my other turning. I prefer them to normal grinds but as john says there not for everyone so some trial and error to see what suits you is best.


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## mark sanger (29 Aug 2009)

I think the Irish grind is worth trying to get to grips with.

I find it very versatile.


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## Alie Barnes (29 Aug 2009)

mark sanger":t3wu7ohi said:


> I think the Irish grind is worth trying to get to grips with.
> 
> I find it very versatile.



Is it possible to get the RS sharpening system to grind the irish grind because i really couldnt work out how to do it on an old gouge and just ended up wasting what was left of the gouge.


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## cornucopia (29 Aug 2009)

yes it is Alie

my gouge is done on the tormek which has an identical arm on it as the robert sorby system.


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## mark sanger (30 Aug 2009)

yes I have the RS and I grind all of my gouges in this manner.

It is easy to do and once you get the grind you like just measure the distance from the tip of the tool back to the front of the jig/where the tool locks in and keep a note. the you can repeat the grind whenever buy making sure this measurement is the same.


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## Alie Barnes (30 Aug 2009)

is there a video guide or a web site that shows how its done?


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## mark sanger (30 Aug 2009)

Yes if you google "Robert Sorbey universal sharpening jig" there is a video on the site showing how it is done.. 

By changing the angle of the jig you can also make the wings much longer and swept back further. This I use as a sheer scraper by closing the face of the gouge right over. That way I do not need to pick up another tool.


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## Jonzjob (31 Aug 2009)

Am I correct in thinking that this is also called a finger nail grind and is similar to the grind on a spindle gouge?


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## cornucopia (31 Aug 2009)

yes its also called a fingernail grind

you can get swept back/fingernail grinds on spindle gouges but as standard they are not swept back much by most manafacture's.


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