# Powered Respirators Vs Dust Masks



## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

I was wondering what the real differences are as far as effectiveness, between powered respirators and dust masks 

I have one of the 3M 7500 masks, a pair of goggles and an over head face mask which goes over everything,
I'd think I was pretty well protected as far as dust, and the whole package cost about £40.

I'm also aware of the powered respirators.
Costing much more than the combination I've thrown together myself as advised on the forum here, the powered respirators come with a full face mask, and a battery powered filter; a popular model being the "Trend Airshield" range and more expensive 3M models.

The Trend airshield comes in at around £200. £160 more than my set up, and what I'm wondering is what sort of a boosts in performance you'd be getting spending the extra cash.
The airshield boasts 98% protection. I'm not sure what the 3M masks are; couldn't find much info on that other than which particles they protect against.

As far as overall protection against dust, ease of use and comfort aside, would you say the airshield or othe powered respirator was worth the money over a good dust mask, goggles and full face mask combo?


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

copied from wiki.....

European standard EN 149 defines the following classes of “filtering half masks” (also called “filtering face pieces”), that is respirators that are entirely or substantially constructed of filtering material:
Class	Filter penetration limit (at 95 L/min air flow)	Inward leakage
FFP1	Filters at least 80% of airborne particles	<22%
FFP2	Filters at least 94% of airborne particles	<8%
FFP3	Filters at least 99% of airborne particles	<2%


I use FFP3 throwaway masks that cost around 1.5 euro each. They outperform the airshield for protection.

The trend "benefit" is that you have mask and goggles all in one, but the trend is not as good as the throw away for keeping your lungs clean


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## wallace (27 Apr 2016)

I have tried most respirators on the market powered and non. The more expensive ones like the 3M dustmaster are nice and comfortable but the protection only goes to 2P plus because they are a negative pressure mask under certain circumstances I was not getting protected at all. I have found for me a sundstrom mask with P3 filter works well although it does become uncomfortable after a few hrs. I have a sensitivity to any form of dust so soon know if something is not working.


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## lurker (27 Apr 2016)

sunnybob":12ehxwvx said:


> They outperform the airshield for protection.



Only if they fully maintian the seal around the face, which they never do.
Also you need to be clean shaven, 2 days stubble will reduce the effectiveness of the seal by at least 20%
I deal with this on a daily basis for a living and wherever possible would recommend positive air flow


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## AJB Temple (27 Apr 2016)

Being an asthmatic and a glasses wearer, I struggled with this as the masks tend to cause glasses to mist up continually. I also find face masks very uncomfortable to wear when they are tight enough to be effective. I bought an Axminster face mask 2 weeks ago and am super impressed with it: quiet, comfortable and effective. No asthma or allergy attacks, no misting, no nasal passage blocked with dust. Face masks area thing of the past for me now.


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

lurker":1s6g30t6 said:


> sunnybob":1s6g30t6 said:
> 
> 
> > They outperform the airshield for protection.
> ...



I'm fussy about my mask fit. I take time to make sure it does, and my missus wont let me get to 2 days stubble.
But your points are valid, the best gear in the world is no good unless its used properly.


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

sunnybob":3i1h4s8h said:


> copied from wiki.....
> 
> European standard EN 149 defines the following classes of “filtering half masks” (also called “filtering face pieces”), that is respirators that are entirely or substantially constructed of filtering material:
> Class	Filter penetration limit (at 95 L/min air flow)	Inward leakage
> ...



That's interesting,
I wasn't aware those disposable masks were much good at all.

Thanks for the heads up


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

wallace":1gh11mav said:


> I have tried most respirators on the market powered and non. The more expensive ones like the 3M dustmaster are nice and comfortable but the protection only goes to 2P plus because they are a negative pressure mask under certain circumstances I was not getting protected at all. I have found for me a sundstrom mask with P3 filter works well although it does become uncomfortable after a few hrs. I have a sensitivity to any form of dust so soon know if something is not working.



, I just assumed the powered variants of a mask would be geared towards filtering out more than their cheaper counterparts.
Now I know,
Thanks


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

lurker":3r9k4zim said:


> sunnybob":3r9k4zim said:
> 
> 
> > They outperform the airshield for protection.
> ...



That's a good point actually.
I once resorted to using two masks together for a time for a better seal - one positioned in the usual position and one slightly below, sealing the jaw area.

Thanks


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

AJB Temple":2v93z8jg said:


> Being an asthmatic and a glasses wearer, I struggled with this as the masks tend to cause glasses to mist up continually. I also find face masks very uncomfortable to wear when they are tight enough to be effective. I bought an Axminster face mask 2 weeks ago and am super impressed with it: quiet, comfortable and effective. No asthma or allergy attacks, no misting, no nasal passage blocked with dust. Face masks area thing of the past for me now.



They are uncomfortable aren't they.
I don't know about anyone else, but they seem to make my jaw push forward, which is uncomfortable.


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

sunnybob":2wkvtrvb said:


> lurker":2wkvtrvb said:
> 
> 
> > sunnybob":2wkvtrvb said:
> ...



I guess sizing would be a large determiner in terms of the seal.
Would it be better to go for a smaller size than you usually for a better fit? Or would it just not fit at all if you did that.


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

The masks I buy are one size fits all. Luckily I am slightly larger than average at 6ft 2 and a head to match (lol). I tried fitting one to my 5 year old grandson, and it covered his eyes and almost his forehead, so size really does matter with these.

The nose metal band is where most people go wrong, They dont crimp it enough and the dust leaks in over the top. This is also why glasses fog up. If your glasses fog up, you are NOT wearing the mask correctly.
It takes practice to breathe normally with a close fitting mask, first reaction is to breathe too deeply, and from there on in youre in panic mode. I advise people to think about when you come across a really, really bad smell. Breathe through your mouth not your nose. I can wear the mask so long that I forget to take it off when I've finished making dust.

I also have another consideration that stops me going the powered route. I am already in summer, temps are mid to high 20's and I'm working just wearing T shirt and shorts. In another month that temp will be over 30, and by august it will hovering around 40. Try working in those temps with a full plastic face mask and you'll find out all you want to know about humidity.


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## skipdiver (27 Apr 2016)

Will any mask rated FFP3 be suitable for wood butchering? Seen some 3M ones on t'bay for a £1 each, in boxes of 20 that i was considering buying.


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## AJB Temple (27 Apr 2016)

Actually I find that the Axi mask is comfortable to wear even when it is hot. The cap is quite solid but ventilated, and the air flow is from above down over your face. I thought I would hate this but it is actually quite pleasant and cooling. The face shield has a neoprene (or something) soft material that hooks under the chin and makes a pretty useful seal for turning etc. 

Since I use dst extraction as well, I feel quite well covered all in all. 

The key with any system is that if it is uncomfortable or inconvenient to use, then many people simply don't bother. I would rather accept a degree of compromise that does not detract from the pleasure of work. If I was doing woodwork professionally I may well have a different attitude.


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

If its rated at FFP3, then its good to go. But take note of all the above, if you dont take the time to fit it properly to your face, then all masks are a waste of money.


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

AJB Temple":3unkwvln said:


> Actually I find that the Axi mask is comfortable to wear even when it is hot. The cap is quite solid but ventilated, and the air flow is from above down over your face. I thought I would hate this but it is actually quite pleasant and cooling.



Trust me, when the air being blown into your face is 40c, its aint cooling (lol)


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## skipdiver (27 Apr 2016)

Cheers Bob. I am used to wearing masks and will ft them properly. I wasn't aware of the rating though, much to my shame, as i should have checked this out. I usually get my masks gratis from my mate who works in a factory, but i doubt they will be the correct rating for particles as he's a welder. I will order some post haste.


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## HexusOdy (27 Apr 2016)

LFS19":t99u8v48 said:


> sunnybob":t99u8v48 said:
> 
> 
> > copied from wiki.....
> ...



I use the Silverline PPF3 disposables from Amazon. 20 for about £13.

They are comfy enough, last 8 hours per mask and generally cant complain for the money.


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

OH NO! 
He's used the "S" word!!!!

Skipdiver, check the rating on the welding masks. FFP3 is good for some gases as well as dust, you might be in luck.


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## DustMasksDirect (27 Apr 2016)

There always appears confusion about dust mask ratings. In essence a FFP3 rated mask is just that - FFP3 rated. All dust masks undergo exactly the same testing regime before they are approved for sale. 

The cheapest FFP3 dust mask will not give any greater protection that the most expensive FFP3 dust mask, however the more expensive masks may be a better fit!


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## LFS19 (27 Apr 2016)

Thanks for the replies.

there are allot more people wearing the disposable masks than I thought.
Is there any advantage to having the 3M 5700 reusable masks, with the P3 filters like I have, over the disposable ones you're all talking about?
Are they better than my 3M? 

Cheers


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## sunnybob (27 Apr 2016)

The use of throw away, or reusable, is completely up to you, as long as the filters on the reusable are rated FFP3.

The reusable is much heavier, but I think may be easier to get a good seal to the face.
The throw away is very light, but takes a bit of effort to make it fit around the nose.

swings and roundabouts.


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## skipdiver (27 Apr 2016)

The ones i have are rated FFP1, so have been ejected and i've ordered some 3M FFP3 ones from Ebay.


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## Alexam (27 Apr 2016)

I also suffer from asthma, which surges up if I am near dust and then takes a week or so to get back to normal. I also wear glasses and many dustmasks will steam them up unless there is a complete seal around your face and nose, but I doubt they would be so good with a beard. 

I find that the Tend Airrace Professional is excellent. No dust getting in and no glasses being fogged up. I can also wear it for hours without any discomfort. Unfortunatly, it does collect moisture from your breath and needs shaking out occassionaly. If you dont need the mask that completly cover your head, then this is worth trying. Axminster sell these.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Trend-AIRACE-P ... espirators
Malcolm


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## LFS19 (28 Apr 2016)

Thanks for the tips everyone!


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## sunnybob (28 Apr 2016)

Malcolm, have you checked the rating on the filter pad?
The trend air ace professional is only a P2. Even with it properly fitted, it doesnt filter as well as the FFP3 throwaways.

A small difference admittedly, but if you are wearing masks for many hours a day, that difference is important.


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## Richard863 (28 Apr 2016)

Hi All
In preference I use the JSP Powercap IPface mask, it is lighter than the others also the jet of air is is strong enough to not only clear any breathing concentration but also prevents any dust coming in around the face fitting.
When any occasional use of MDF I never find any trace of the dust on the inside of the mask or the filters. Of benefit there is plenty of room if you wear spectacles. I suppose if you really wanted safety there's room to wear a nose mask
as well.
Richard


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## sunnybob (28 Apr 2016)

Richard, just searched for the JSP powercap. Guess what? its rated at FFP2.

What many of the people posting here dont seem to realise is that its the FINE dust you CANT see that does the damage. looking inside and saying "I cant see any" just proves that the filter is blocking big stuff.
Its the microscopic dust that sticks the walls of your lungs and changes your lives, the big bits you can spit out (g).

Everybody makes their own choices, based mainly it seems on comfort,and as always, swayed by the power of advertising, but hopefully this thread has made everybody think more carefully about what they are wearing.


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## Keith 66 (28 Apr 2016)

I worked as a boatbuilder for most of my working life, this meant using machines with no extraction at all, they just spewed to the atmosphere. Also did a lot of repair work on GRP boats which meant a lot of grinding GRP.
Back in the early 80's i was one of the few who wore masks regularly. When i set up on my own in 84 i bought a Racal airstream powered respirator, it lasted a long time but i wore it out. I got another & wore that one out as well. 3 years ago i rebuilt it & bought enough spares to keep it running till im to old to do it any more!
I have worn disposables, valved masks as well plus the Airstream. I tried a Trend airshield but found it unbalanced & clogged up quickly.
Its only when you change the main filter on a good respirator & look inside to see the quantites of fine dust that you realise just how much it is possible to breathe in.
I have had a bad reaction to western red cedar dust & iroko & never machine or sand the stuff without the respirator on my head.
As for silverline masks, if they are as good as their tools i wouldnt trust them!
The moral of the story is you only get one set of lungs.


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## Random Orbital Bob (28 Apr 2016)

So what's the conclusion about the best protection? Sorry, not had time to read the entire thread but would be interested in the short cut to the answer.


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## skipdiver (28 Apr 2016)

Random Orbital Bob":1ybrl6uw said:


> So what's the conclusion about the best protection? Sorry, not had time to read the entire thread but would be interested in the short cut to the answer.



Even the cheapest mask with a FFP3 filter is better than an expensive one with with an FFP2 or FFP1 filter. Some people like the all singing all dancing air masks, some like the throw away type. The important thing is the filter and making sure the mask is fitted securely, especially the metal band around the nose.

That, or take up golf.


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## sunnybob (29 Apr 2016)

Bob, cost is irrelievent.
Make is irrelivant.
Powered or passive is irellivant.
The spelling of irrelivent is irrelivent.

The FILTER MATERIAL should be rated at FFP3. 1 or 2 is not as good as 3.
And of course it should fit you without air leaks around the side.
Thats it.


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## Droogs (29 Apr 2016)

I know I'm joining the discussion a little late, but thought I'd throw in my two penith worth. I was fortunate enough to be able to keep my army S10 respirator when i left and use this whenever I am in a contaminated environment (vapour/particle/biological). I have used it when spraying, sanding or even when down a sewer. All I had to do was change the canister in in use. It takes a standardized 40mm threaded canister which is available from various suppliers to cover all the different forms of hazard you can encounter. The respirator can be had on fleabay for around £40 and the canister vary in price upto £30 depending on the desired protection. As a specs wearer it also has the advantage of being designed to accomodate prescription lens being fitted internaly to the mask and thus - no seal problems.


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## woodpig (30 Apr 2016)

I use a belt and braces approach. I use a face mask, shop vac and air cleaner. I also leave the air cleaner on timer after I go indoors. I often use the blow function on my Nilfisk to clean off all flat surfaces of dust whilst the cleaner is running.


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## woodpig (30 Apr 2016)

sunnybob":2arppz7k said:


> Bob, cost is irrelievent.
> Make is irrelivant.
> Powered or passive is irellivant.
> The spelling of irrelivent is irrelivent.
> ...



Have you got a link for a decent mask with FFFP3 filters at a good price?


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## LFS19 (30 Apr 2016)

woodpig":1jfk0d5j said:


> sunnybob":1jfk0d5j said:
> 
> 
> > Bob, cost is irrelievent.
> ...



this is the one I have: https://www.amazon.co.uk/7500-Professio ... +face+mask

And then these were the filters I bought:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M2135X1PAIR-2 ... ds=3m+2135

EDIT: I noticed this one too - https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-6200M-Respi ... XAWR314PDM
Not sure really what the differences are


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## LFS19 (30 Apr 2016)

I do wonder; why are the trend masks (both the air race and air shield pro) rated at P2?
Presumably the different filter grades are for different intensities and particle types, but if it's important for people doing woodwork to have P3 filters, why when Trend is a company specialising in woodwork do they only provide the lower grade?


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## woodpig (30 Apr 2016)

This one looks quite good, nice large P3 filters.

http://johndaviswoodturning.com/shop/el ... 3-filters/


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## sunnybob (30 Apr 2016)

I just use throwaways as they are the lightest. My hot weather stops me from wearing large masks, especially when they enclose the face.

The tool shop I buy them from has all three grades on the same shelf. Once youre aware of the differences, I dont see a reason to buy the lower spec 2 for any reason at all, but most people just see "dust mask" without checking further.


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## LFS19 (30 Apr 2016)

woodpig":2tydjuxz said:


> This one looks quite good, nice large P3 filters.
> 
> http://johndaviswoodturning.com/shop/el ... 3-filters/



Roughly the same price as the 3M mask, too.

Does size of the filter matter, do you think?


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## sunnybob (30 Apr 2016)

Does size matter? seriously?

The smaller the filter area, the quicker it will block, but that depends on how many hours its used, how much fine dust there is... its endless.

The whole point is, your best chance of avoiding lung diseases is to use an FFP3 filter material. And to make sure it fits securely, and to change it as often as you feel you need to.


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## Muswell (1 May 2016)

I've had a powered respirator but didn't like the weight and noise, I've had 3 different renewable filter respirators and found them sweaty. A few years ago I discovered the 3M 8833 which is FFP3 and has the little valve to make it easier to breathe. They are expensive but very comfortable and I wouldn't consider anything else now.


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## screwpainting (4 May 2016)

I've just ordered a pack of ten of these thanks to your above recommendation Muswell, having looked at them before. How long would you say you can you use them or are they best just single use. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/3M-Cup-Shaped- ... 63&sr=1-12

I though that was a pretty good price

Steve.


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## skipdiver (13 May 2016)

Now that i am working full time in my shop, i've been wearing a mask all day and it is annoying the rubbish out of me. The recent spell of hot weather has been horrible as i sweat a lot and what with safety specs and ear defenders, it's a pretty uncomfortable experience all round. I really want to invest in a full face respirator but comments on inappropriate filters and noise are putting me off as they are not cheap to try out. Users thoughts would be appreciated.


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## Beau (13 May 2016)

skipdiver":13uj6zhr said:


> Now that i am working full time in my shop, i've been wearing a mask all day and it is annoying the rubbish out of me. The recent spell of hot weather has been horrible as i sweat a lot and what with safety specs and ear defenders, it's a pretty uncomfortable experience all round. I really want to invest in a full face respirator but comments on inappropriate filters and noise are putting me off as they are not cheap to try out. Users thoughts would be appreciated.



Have you tried a visor instead of the specs? I really like this combo http://www.sorbus-intl.co.uk/v40-peltor ... ming-visor with these masks as they have a downward firing vent to avoid misting up http://www.protectivemasksdirect.co.uk/ ... AnIT8P8HAQ


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## sunnybob (13 May 2016)

Skipdiver.
Agreed without argument that the masks are annoying on a full working day, but clogged lungs are forever.
Glad youre still seeking alternatives rather than giving up though.

And just to cheer you up, I'm working in 34 degrees today! Sandals, beach shorts and mask sums up my attire. Stick with the program mate.


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## CHJ (13 May 2016)

LFS19":2i536gx9 said:


> I do wonder; why are the trend masks (both the air race and air shield pro) rated at P2?
> Presumably the different filter grades are for different intensities and particle types, but if it's important for people doing woodwork to have P3 filters, why when Trend is a company specialising in woodwork do they only provide the lower grade?



Because the mask design cannot guarantee to meet the standard of P3 filtering in normal use.
No point in having a P3 filter if the mask itself can't ensure that you are not breathing in air that is leaking past its seals at the same particulate level.

To make the mask totally P3 compliant to pass the certification tests would probably double the retail price.

Look at the price of trade rated mask systems, not just the filters, that are certified to P3 and you will see the difference.


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## Adam9453 (13 May 2016)

I do share others frustration that there isn't a powered respirator with P3 protection available (even at a much higher cost) from what I have found.
I would be interested in a link to a P3 level powered respirator regardless of price as it would be useful to know how much it would cost to get the optimum protection equipment.


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## CHJ (13 May 2016)

Adam9453":g8tfxis7 said:


> ....I would be interested in a link to a P3 level powered respirator regardless of price as it would be useful to know how much it would cost to get the optimum protection equipment.



http://www.thesafetysupplycompany.co.uk ... 0woddVcIng

http://www.arco.co.uk/products/20V0001

There are cheaper brands but with all searches be prepared to source filter units and suitable helmet and face shield as separate units, some masks are only vapour proof not impact resistant.


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## n0legs (13 May 2016)

I was going to suggest going full air fed, I have quite a few times with mdf. But I feel given that PPE should be seen as a last resort, possibly address localised extraction more so.
Dust management isn't easy, and really important, but there are solutions.
I've worked to get my place better, snd there's still more I need to do, but my shed/workshop is healthier than ever.


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## lurker (13 May 2016)

The problem with air fed is getting the air quality clean.
A "normal" compressor pumps out air heavily laden with oil.


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## Adam9453 (13 May 2016)

Thanks for the links.

I had looked into the 3M versaflo system but to be completely honest got a bit lost in whether I needed to have some kind of clean air system installed which I "plugged" into or whether the belt actually provides the clean air. I found their website more confusing than helpful i'm afraid.
I keep meaning to phone 3M to discuss the system with them and find out exactly what I would need to purchase so I know what I would be getting myself into.

I completely agree with the comments about dealing with dust extraction at source rather than just trying to protect yourself from it. I am currently in the process of upgrading my dust extraction setup and 'hopefully', a big 'hopefully', it will virtually eliminate dust in the air.

I suspect I'll still wear the dust mask though as it certainly can't hurt to be "over protected" can it. (hammer)


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## CHJ (13 May 2016)

skipdiver":3tytamym said:


> Now that i am working full time in my shop, i've been wearing a mask all day and it is annoying the rubbish out of me. The recent spell of hot weather has been horrible as i sweat a lot and what with safety specs and ear defenders, it's a pretty uncomfortable experience all round. I really want to invest in a full face respirator but comments on inappropriate filters and noise are putting me off as they are not cheap to try out. Users thoughts would be appreciated.



Are the comments in this old thread of any help


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## n0legs (13 May 2016)

lurker":1eg6llg8 said:


> The problem with air fed is getting the air quality clean.
> A "normal" compressor pumps out air heavily laden with oil.



That is absolutely correct. 

I'm not saying everyone should run out and buy one, I'm in the fortunate position that advice to set mine up was easily obtained. My air is filtered three times before it even gets to the masks belt mounted filter. It all requires quite a bit of maintenance, and money, to get it anywhere near good enough for my occasional use.

Extraction at source lets me get away with just a 3M 'bug mask'. I could possibly go disposable, but I get them free each montly anyway.
There's a lot to consider in this dust management game, but ignore it and you and the loved ones could lose out in a big way.


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## skipdiver (13 May 2016)

Some interesting thoughts and links gents. I'm finding the transition to working full time in my shop a great pleasure, apart form one thing and that's the dust problem. I'm someone who sweats quite a lot and am struggling with it and steamed up safety specs. I also have mild psoriasis and am finding that my ears are getting very sweaty and itchy. I think i'll just have to try some sort of airshield and trade the discomfort i now have for the discomfort of the weight and noise issue. I am finding that despite all my efforts, i am still ending the day with some slight tightness in my chest and will have to look at beefing up my extraction and filtration, along with finding a mask i'm happy to wear all day. Just wish that the airshield types came with higher rated filters but i'll do some research over the weekend and make a decision.


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## sunnybob (14 May 2016)

Purely from a discussion theory point of view, and my limited experience, but I worry about all the "air purifiers" that are at ceiling height.
To me it seems logical to have these at below head height.
the overhead units just pull the very fine dust up past your face, and its the very fine dust that defeats all our masks.
It would make more sense to me to have the air flow downwards, dragging the fine dust to floor. If that was combined with an overhead fan set to blow downwards, I would think it would much safer for all concerned.

My machines are connected to extraction which is quite efficient, but I do a lot of hand sanding on the bench which has nothing yet and my mask and body gets covered in dust. I'm thinking of making a small down draft table for sanding.


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## CHJ (14 May 2016)

sunnybob":2uuy4qnw said:


> .... If that was combined with an overhead fan set to blow downwards, I would think it would much safer for all concerned.
> 
> ......



Sucking dust away from you as you are doing with fresh air source behind your position is best practice possible but Never Blow Dust. Even moving it with a ceiling mounted fan as you suggest means that the flow direction/deflection is going to change every time you move under or near its downdraft stream.

Blowing only distributes it further in an uncontrolled way with a higher velocity.

Worst case scenario is blowing dust and shavings away with an airline, if others are around then you risk subjecting them to high velocity particles, if you don't have good face protection you risk back reflected rebound debris, in the shop in general poorly sealed bearings and equipment is open to enforced debris ingestion.


Best practice with dust settled on surfaces is to disturb with a fine brush whilst 'vacuuming' close to the disturbance.


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## sunnybob (14 May 2016)

I'm in a pretty unique situation. because of the heat, I work with the garage roll up door open all the time, so I have constant dust swirls. Point taken on the fan though.

I definitely need a down draught work table for sanding, just need to find room for it on the machine wall. I've tried running extra trunking across the roof to the bench, but lose a very large amount of suction.


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## wallace (14 May 2016)

n0legs what extra is involved when getting air from a compressor clean enough to breathe. I picked up a 3M hood and regulator recently.


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## lurker (14 May 2016)

My normal work attire

http://www.respirexinternational.com/en ... late-suit/

Don't half make your sweat :lol:


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## deema (14 May 2016)

The problem with unpowered masks is getting a perfect seal, and as the filter starts to clog up the negative pressue that breathing creates causes dust to enter around the edge of the mask due to the pressure difference. If you the read the 3M7500 instructions it actually says that it's time to change the filter when you notice your getting a bypass around the mask.

The powered masks have far less issues with bypass as they have positive pressure. The Trend Airshield must be checked regularly for the pressure with the included tester. If the filters get too blocked the positive pressure is reduced to the point where you get bypass and breath unfiltered air.

The other thing to consider is where you buy cheap disposable masks, if it says it's P3 and is from an unknown retailer and its from China, chances are it isnt even P1. There may be standards, but there is no one actively policing them. The prospect of suing someone in China for a faulty mask when you have lung problems is a none starter. So, a leading retailer may be more expensive buy but you do have a high degree of assurance that they will have verified that it actually does what it claims to do.

So, IMO in summary the positive air pressure masks have a lower tendency to create bypass if tested properly. Although P2, which by the way is above what is recommended for MDF (P1). 

Personally use a Trebd Airshield for most woodworking and for painting / thinners etc use a 3M7500 with both a p3 filter and an organic filter. Of the two the Trend is a long way more comfortable and wearable all day long compared to the 3M, which if fitted correctly should leave a faint impression all around your face when you remove it.


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## skipdiver (14 May 2016)

Think I'm going to get a power cap and hope it does the trick as it's 200 quid wasted otherwise.


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## n0legs (14 May 2016)

wallace":xqem7t3a said:


> n0legs what extra is involved when getting air from a compressor clean enough to breathe. I picked up a 3M hood and regulator recently.



Hi Wallace,
I modeled mine on my BIL's at his workshop (body shop). His is obviously bigger and better (expensive), but mine is still effective.
I asked the guys who service his compressors for some advice and basically the more filters the better. Getting the water out is hard if you don't have a dryer, but it is doable. 
My air fed mask is an older DeVilbiss set up with a belt mounted filter pack. I believe this filter does the really hard work and needs changing every couple of months if used a lot, mine gets changed at most twice a year.
Filtration starts with a Clarke filter, I've had this years. It's a really simple thing with a water drain on the bottom.
The filters I bought to use the air fed are these:-
http://www.sturdyfluidpower.co.uk/Produ ... 110004000f
There's two of these always connected and are inline with each other after the clarke. The second one has a push fit/quick release fitted. I just plug tools in when in use. 
To use the mask I connect one of these:-
http://www.sturdyfluidpower.co.uk/Produ ... 110004000e
It's got a male push fit one side and a quick release the other. 
I have a rubber hose for the mask and it only gets used with the mask, I cap the fittings when it's not being used. I don't know the spec of it, it came from the people where the filters came from upon request for something suitable. It gets cleaned every now and then using the same method as the BIL. 
He has an inline oiler that has never been used for oil. He fills it with a sanitiser, Dettol I think (don't quote me on that) I'm sure it comes from a first aid place. Then plugs the airline in, letting the oiler feed the contents down the hose. The hose is then just left to blow for ages to dry it out. I do mine down there, the compressors are much much bigger than I have at home.

What I will say is wearing the air fed kit, whilst you feel super safe (you really can't taste or smell anything other than air), it is a pain. The hose drags along behind you and depending how vigorous the work you're doing it can really get in the way. I wore it when we did the paving last summer when doing all the cuts with a disc cutter. Yes it was nice and safe not breathing in the dust, but christ it got on my ****. Walking the same way each time to my pile of uncut slabs, so as not to get caught up, then back to my cutting station, then over to put the cut piece in another pile. Wow really tedious, and getting it snagged -- right pain. But still I didn't breathe in any dust. 
Then there's from the noise from the compressors. that really wears thin.
It's nice to have but there are limits. I don't know how the painter at the BIL's does it for 6-8 hours a day, it would drive me bonkers.
Makes me feel like a goldfish :lol:


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## MattRoberts (14 May 2016)

Deema, did you know you can get a charcoal filter for the trend for when you use chemicals?


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## PAC1 (15 May 2016)

skipdiver":2u0m2wez said:


> Think I'm going to get a power cap and hope it does the trick as it's 200 quid wasted otherwise.



If you spend all day all week in the shop then you really should be collecting all the dust at source and wear a mask only for machines with leakage or where 99.9% collection is impossible. You really cannot believe the difference in the environment including air quality when you achieve this.


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## deema (15 May 2016)

MattRoberts":267bx0kh said:


> Deema, did you know you can get a charcoal filter for the trend for when you use chemicals?




I didn't, that's really helpful thanks. I will look out for the filters because apart from paint spraying that would be ideal.


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## lurker (15 May 2016)

MattRoberts":1mc9ut71 said:


> Deema, did you know you can get a charcoal filter for the trend for when you use chemicals?



It's not quite that simple as a quick look at the range of different filters wil demonstrate


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## wallace (15 May 2016)

Thanks for all the info, I was thinking of using air fed when I'm turning so I didn't have to drag air lines around. Also for when I'm doing restoration work on machines, I wanna be as protected as possible because I'm probably dealing with lead based stuff. Another avenue to go down could be pumping air as apposed to compressing air. A few years ago I played with a little 12v fan that was army surplus and came off a cold war radar system. It took an air feed from outside and pumped it down some new 1" hose to a mask. It worked fantastic but the hum off the fan was horrible. 
I might try one of the new powered respirators since they seem to be P3 now


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## skipdiver (16 May 2016)

PAC1":1jdjp89r said:


> skipdiver":1jdjp89r said:
> 
> 
> > Think I'm going to get a power cap and hope it does the trick as it's 200 quid wasted otherwise.
> ...



Yes, i am aware of that and am upgrading my dust extraction as well. Ordered an air filter unit today and will endeavour to keep improving all the areas i can. The airflow mask is just another facet.


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## skipdiver (18 May 2016)

Now have the AC unit fitted and used the Powercap for the first time today. Was routering for hours with my table hooked up to extraction but there is always some dust that escapes. The AC and Powercap kept it all at bay and the shop had no dust hanging in the air when i had finished. It also kept my napper cool on a hot day. £360 well spent.


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## skipdiver (19 May 2016)

Well, it was good while it lasted. Put it on charge for 16 hours ala instructions and it died after 10 mins use this morning. Seems the battery is not charging and it's going back to Axminster tomorrow. Very disappointing and am not sure whether to get another or have a refund and get a Trend one.


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## CHJ (19 May 2016)

skipdiver":2rohucwm said:


> Well, it was good while it lasted. Put it on charge for 16 hours ala instructions and it died after 10 mins use this morning. Seems the battery is not charging and it's going back to Axminster tomorrow. Very disappointing and am not sure whether to get another or have a refund and get a Trend one.



Did you actually confirm that the current was flowing from the charger to the battery?

I f the battery pack is charged in situ I always switch the device on and then the charger, the immediate increases in fan speed confirms that the charger is supplying power to the unit.


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## skipdiver (19 May 2016)

Tried everything but it wouldn't charge, so it's going back.


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