# alcove cabinet - basic help requested



## helix (21 Aug 2013)

hi all,

first post here - spent a bit of time searching the forum and reading many informative posts on building alcove cupboards.

However, being a relative novice when it comes to woodworking, I'd really appreciate some advice on some basic questions with regard to building an alcove cupboard with shelving above.

1) Should I build a standalone frame for the cupboard, and then fix into alcove? Or should I build the frame into the alcove directly?
2) If standalone, should I build a frame like option a (see below, sorry I can't post links to images), and then fit the sides, back etc in MDF, or should I build the frame with solid sides like option B?
3) If option B, can I join the MDF with glue and screws, screwing into the end of the panels, rather than using biscuits, or other similarly complicated method?

Thanks in advance for any help, and apologies for the basic questions!



```
Option A
     ___________________________
    \\___________________________\\
    |\\___________________________\\
    ||\\                         ||\\
    || \\                        || \\
    ||__\\_______________________||__\\
    ||___\\___________________________\\
    \\___||___________________________||
	 \\  ||                       \\  ||
	  \\ ||________________________\\_||
	   \\||___________________________||
	    \||___________________________||
		
		

Option B		
		 __________________________
		|\                         \
		| \                         \
		|  \                         \
		|   \                         \
		|    \                         \
		|     \                         \
		|      \_________________________\
		\      |  _______________________ |
		 \     | |                      | |
		  \    | |                      | |
		   \   | |                      | |
		    \  | |                      | |
           \ | |______________________| |
            \|__________________________|
```


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## MickCheese (21 Aug 2013)

When I did two recently I just built two boxes from 18mm MDF with adjustable kitchen feet about 20mm to small all around. I then just used a face frame and inset doors made from 12mm MDF with a 6mm planted on frame giving them the shaker look. I then just painted them white. 

Mick


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## jasonB (21 Aug 2013)

Yep, thats what I usually do, two boxes and scribe the faceframe to the walls


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## helix (21 Aug 2013)

hi, thanks for the advice. Based on this, I've created a crude representation of what I'm thinking.







Does it make sense? Any suggestions for improvement?

Do the overall proportions look ok?

thanks!


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## helix (21 Aug 2013)

hi, sorry quick follow up...

so thinking the shelf section would be something like this:






and then the whole lot would be cut from ~4 sheets of 18x1220x2440mm MDF






Am I on the right tracks, getting there, or totally off?

Advice really appreciated 

thanks!


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 Aug 2013)

Not just on the right track....arrived at the station, checked into a hotel, gone out for dinner and now you're heading out to the best club in town!!

Excellent diagrams...sketchup?


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## petermillard (22 Aug 2013)

+1. I'd just add that 1000mm span is pretty wide for an 18mm shelf - I'd make them from 22 / 25mm with a hardwood lipping, personally. I think I'd be inclined to repeat the face-frame on the bookcase as well, just for consistency...

Fun project - let us know how you get on.

Pete


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## MickCheese (22 Aug 2013)

Have you considered a vertical rail between the doors. I found it easier to get the gaps right with that rail and it added a little support for the top. You also get somewhere to put the latches. 

For the carcasses I just used biscuits, glue and screws. The biscuits made lining it all up on my own easier. 

Mick


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## jasonB (22 Aug 2013)

I'd reduce the base faceframe from 100 to 50-60 and then carry it on to the shelves

Your shelve slook to be double thickness so should be OK with sagging.


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## helix (22 Aug 2013)

thanks a lot all for the great advice and encouragement! Really appreciated 



Random Orbital Bob":5b4i92ki said:


> Not just on the right track....arrived at the station, checked into a hotel, gone out for dinner and now you're heading out to the best club in town!!
> 
> Excellent diagrams...sketchup?


thanks for the encouragement, really appreciated - actually I used excel for this - I tried sketchup but found it too complicated



petermillard":5b4i92ki said:


> +1. I'd just add that 1000mm span is pretty wide for an 18mm shelf - I'd make them from 22 / 25mm with a hardwood lipping, personally. I think I'd be inclined to repeat the face-frame on the bookcase as well, just for consistency...


good advice, thanks - from the looks of your website, you definitely know what you're doing  



MickCheese":5b4i92ki said:


> Have you considered a vertical rail between the doors. I found it easier to get the gaps right with that rail and it added a little support for the top. You also get somewhere to put the latches.
> 
> For the carcasses I just used biscuits, glue and screws. The biscuits made lining it all up on my own easier.
> k


Thanks regarding the advice on using biscuits - I don't have a router or anything like that, so will need to think this through a bit more. 

I did consider a vertical rail between the door, but I want to put a DVD player extra in the cupboard, so think that might get in the way slightly. However... you comment has led me to have another think about my design (see below) 



jasonB":5b4i92ki said:


> I'd reduce the base faceframe from 100 to 50-60 and then carry it on to the shelves
> 
> Your shelve slook to be double thickness so should be OK with sagging.


Sounds like a good plan to ensure the upper and lower units look like a single piece, thanks!

So, with the above feedback, I pulled together another design.

top image - carcass only
middle image - carcass with doors and face frame shown (complete doors shown in blue)
bottom image - completed piece

In this case, the carcass and doors are like a kitchen cabinet i.e. the doors fully cover the front of the carcass. The top, bottom and side face frame pieces are then joined to the sides of the carcass, rather than overlapping the front. They would be offset forward to the same projection as the doors.

With the previous design, I'm thinking the doors would have been hinged to the face frame. In this design the doors can be connected to the carcass with kitchen-cabinet-like hinges.

Would appreciate any thoughts on whether this is an improvement on the design, and if there are any cons to this approach (or pros I may not have thought of  )


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## MickCheese (22 Aug 2013)

Here is a really good walk through for built in units. 

Written by someone who no longer frequents here. His work is first class. 

Mick


https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post345489.html?hilit=scribing skirting#p345489

four-mdf-alcove-units-wip-t30678.html


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## petermillard (23 Aug 2013)

helix":1x7ewfp0 said:


> In this design the doors can be connected to the carcass with kitchen-cabinet-like hinges.
> 
> Would appreciate any thoughts on whether this is an improvement on the design, and if there are any cons to this approach (or pros I may not have thought of  )


Having the face-frame arranged like that will only work if the cabinet is the same depth as the alcove; if the cabinet is deeper than the alcove the scribed infill on the chimney-breast side of the cabinet needs to be alcove depth, not front-of-cabinet depth.

HTH Pete


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## MickCheese (23 Aug 2013)

The ones I did stuck out from the alcove and were a little wider than the alcove using a face frame that wrapped back to the chimney breast. 

Obviously the carcus was not wider just the face frame. So the carcus was deeper than the alcove by about 100mm. 

Mick


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## helix (23 Aug 2013)

thank guys, exactly what I was thinking i.e.. wrap the face frame back to the chimney breast.

Regarding doors, could I make them up using 6mm sandwiched together in shaker style e.g. 6 + 6 + 6, with the inner section being the full size of the door, and the outer sections just on the edges?

Any issues with this approach?


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## MickCheese (23 Aug 2013)

That's exactly what I did. I lipped the edge with tulipwood as I was using butt hinges. 

I also made them a bit too big so I could cut the to size rather than try to get them right first time. 

Edit. Actually I used a 12mm for the door and 6mm for the edge as I didn't mind a flat back and was a bit concerned 6mm may not be stout enough. 

Mick


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## helix (14 Oct 2013)

hi all,

I had some really great advice and input from the guys who provide help above, so I thought I'd post some pics of the finished cupboards 

Of course, I would have done some things slightly differently with experience, but for a first attempt I'm happy with the results.

many thanks again to those who helped me out!

cheers.


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## Mar_mite (15 Oct 2013)

Nice job.Good proportions


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