# Cyclists!!!



## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Hi,

I was waiting at a red light at a crossroads this morning when a cyclist came passed me through the red light, touched the brakes locked up on the wet road and fell off. The lights changed whilst he was on the ground so a said “Shouldn’t go through a red light” and rode off.


Pete


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Well yes he shouldn't.
Speaking as a cyclist, I can tell you that being strictly correct annoys motorists too.
e.g. in traffic lanes you have to ride down the middle of the lane or you can get overtaken on both sides and risk getting pinched in. But you get a twerp behind you tooting his hooter or even revving up threateningly just behind your back wheel. They get even more annoyed if you stay in lane at traffic lights and cause a micro second delay to the traffic behind.
So keeping out of the way and dodging carefully around the lights can actually be helpful to all concerned if you can do it safely. I don't do this - I hog my bit of the road instead.
I reckon we will go dutch eventually and cyclist will be given better facilities and rights of way. Sooner the better. Better for drivers too - nearly every bike on the road is one less car and one more parking space somewhere.


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## Blister (28 Jun 2011)

You should see what they are like in the city :roll: 

None of them stop its as if the traffic light were not there :roll:


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## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Hi, Jacob

I agree with you somewhat, about reducing the length of queues I ride a motor bike so I do filter, but if you go through a red light then brake on a wet road on a racing bike with thin tyres, you must be stupid.

As a biker I know after a hot spell then rain the roads are very slippery.

Pete


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jun 2011)

Racers":31m29qkf said:


> brake on a wet road on a racing bike with thin tyres, you must be stupid.



Far better to ride a fixed-wheel bike in towns with slippery roads. Enables you to control your speed with minimum use of the brakes.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (28 Jun 2011)

I really don't know why cyclists think they're a breed apart? :duno: As far as I'm concerned we (and I ride a bike a lot) use a machine with two wheels which makes us part of the road going community and as such the rules of the road apply. We ignore them at our peril - Rob


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## Karl (28 Jun 2011)

BAD cyclists are one of my pet hates on the roads - them, and HGV's taking up 2 lanes on Motorways.

A couple of years back I was coming back through some of the winding country lanes in Cheshire - 50mph speed limit. Imagine my surprise when I went round a blind bend to find 3 cyclists riding side by side! I nearly careered into the back of them, and probably would have done if I had been going any faster. 

To make it worse they were all wearing "Team GB" outfits and had posh looking bikes. 

Cheers

Karl


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## Jonzjob (28 Jun 2011)

I think that the French cyclists have to be the worst of all. They just ride as if the road is theirs and the next time we almost have a head on with large pack of the idiots hurtling down hill all across the road with nice blind bends is not going to be the first, or the last I expect. As far as the lights are concerned they just don't exist for them either.

As for the lunatics on motorbikes! Speed limits, solid white lines and good manners don't exist for LOADS of them and I am under the impression they are late for a very special appointment, their funeral!

Roll on le Tour!! Starts next week and then the idiots multiply! Cracking race though :mrgreen:


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Karl":exuf7j7j said:


> BAD cyclists are one of my pet hates on the roads - them, and HGV's taking up 2 lanes on Motorways.


You don't hate bad car drivers then?


> A couple of years back I was coming back through some of the winding country lanes in Cheshire - 50mph speed limit. Imagine my surprise when I went round a blind bend to find 3 cyclists riding side by side! I nearly careered into the back of them,....
> 
> Karl


You were driving too fast. It would have been your fault. You should always drive down winding country lanes in the expectation of finding a total obstruction around the next corner; cows, tractors, walkers etc. 50mph speed limit doesn't mean you are entitled to drive at 50mph. Quite a few drivers don't realise this.


woodbloke":exuf7j7j said:


> I really don't know why cyclists think they're a breed apart?...


They don't, but many car drivers certainly have that problem.


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Jonzjob":3skgacca said:


> I think that the French cyclists have to be the worst of all. They just ride as if the road is theirs ....


Er, actually it is theirs too. Many drivers don't seem to know this. 
The French are pretty good with cyclists in my experience, not like stupid Clarkson fans.


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## Jonzjob (28 Jun 2011)

OK, I'm opting out of this thread as it is going to become yet another target for a pinapple (my word, not the forum bad word dectector!)

Why is it that some people have to be SO abrasive?


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Jonzjob":3oekgcdc said:


> OK, I'm opting out of this thread as it is going to become yet another target for a pinapple (my word, not the forum bad word dectector!)
> 
> Why is it that some people have to be SO abrasive?


You are all targeting cyclists aren't you? I'm a cyclist (as well as a car driver).


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## Karl (28 Jun 2011)

Jacob":93zvqbyr said:


> You were driving too fast. It would have been your fault. You should always drive down winding country lanes in the expectation of finding a total obstruction around the next corner; cows, tractors, walkers etc. 50mph speed limit doesn't mean you are entitled to drive at 50mph. Quite a few drivers don't realise this.



How do you know how fast I was driving?


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## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Hi, Jonzjob 

People aren't as abrasive as that road the chap slid down this morning :wink: 


Pete "lunatic on motorbike"


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Karl":207kdkxg said:


> Jacob":207kdkxg said:
> 
> 
> > You were driving too fast. It would have been your fault. You should always drive down winding country lanes in the expectation of finding a total obstruction around the next corner; cows, tractors, walkers etc. 50mph speed limit doesn't mean you are entitled to drive at 50mph. Quite a few drivers don't realise this.
> ...


You said "I nearly careered into the back of them" even though they were going away from you, which means you were driving too fast. If it had been a car coming the other way at a similar speed you presumably would have had a head on.


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## Karl (28 Jun 2011)

Jacob":1v2cfkxe said:


> Karl":1v2cfkxe said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":1v2cfkxe said:
> ...



Nonsense. I didn't hit them - ie I slowed down in time to avoid them, evidence that I wasn't driving too fast. They, however, were showing no courtesy to other road users by driving slowly side by side. 

A car coming head on the other way at a similair speed is of no relevance - it would be on the other side of the road!

Many have accused you over the years of being a Troll; this and other threads show why.


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Three cyclists side by side on a quiet country road, you having to slow down behind them. Is that it then? Dear oh dear! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Hi, Jacob/Karl

Rule 66 of the Highway code

You should

•keep both hands on the handlebars except when signalling or changing gear
•keep both feet on the pedals
•never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends
•not ride close behind another vehicle
•not carry anything which will affect your balance or may get tangled up with your wheels or chain
•be considerate of other road users, particularly blind and partially sighted pedestrians. Let them know you are there when necessary, for example, by ringing your bell if you have one. It is recommended that a bell be fitted


Pete


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## Karl (28 Jun 2011)

Thanks Pete - common sense really..... :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Well they were very naughty boys then.
Are we going to have a thread where we can post up every transgression by motorists?
I saw one today - a f***r in a Mondeo pulled out without signalling! Shocking. Car drivers!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## woodbloke (28 Jun 2011)

Racers":1tvhd4cw said:


> Hi, Jacob/Karl
> 
> Rule 66 of the Highway code
> 
> ...


At last, the definitive article. Is there one of these for honing and sharpening by any chance [-o< - Rob


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

No but seriously, picking on minor transgressions by cyclists is getting to be just a bit uninteresting.

Motorists are going to have to learn to like cyclists and there are plenty of good reasons why they should.
Here are a few:
There are a lot of cyclists, increasing all the time - there are more bikes in the world than cars.
Cyclists very rarely kill, injure, or damage anything except themselves and/or their bikes (though it has been known).
Cycling is (just about) carbon neutral and generates no pollution or noise whatsoever (except creaking, groaning, farting etc).
A bike journey may well replace a car journey. Bikes take up less road space and so reduce traffic jams, speeding up car journeys and also freeing up parking spaces for cars.
Cycling keeps you fit - increasing your productivity and reducing the burden on the NHS - saving taxpayers money!!
That's a few for starters, there are more!!


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## myturn (28 Jun 2011)

You missed something Jacob.


Cycling is hard work and most people's idea of exercise is reaching for the remote control on the telly or tearing open a packet of crisps. Or, for those adventurous few, riding to the pub so they can get p1ssed and not worry about driving home.


I cycle to work daily and every holiday for the last 22 years has been with our (my wife is a keen cyclist too) bikes and I can say that I take every precaution to protect myself from the large number of silly person drivers on the road. Even if that means pulling away from a traffic-light controlled roundabout (what a stupid idea to put lights on a roundabout) when I see the traffic on my right stopping as their light goes red and BEFORE my light starts to change. This means I can clear the roundabout safely, before the traffic waiting with me moves off, without some dummy cutting across me as they take the "racing" line to hit the apex when turning left in front of me in case I might hold them up for a nanosecond.

I've been run off the road into ditches by lorries swinging their tails in at me as they overtake, knocked off by cars overtaking me only to turn left immediately in front of me, had things thrown at me and been spat at by passengers in passing cars for no reason other than their own amusement, and many other near misses.

The real reason many drivers hate cyclists is because our roads are so overcrowded and it takes so long to get anywhere. Seeing a cyclist make progress while they sit bumper to bumper crawling along gives them an easy target to vent their frustrations at.


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## Peter T (28 Jun 2011)

Jacob":3keafzad said:


> Cycling keeps you fit - increasing your productivity and reducing the burden on the NHS - saving taxpayers money!!



If they want to support the NHS maybe they should pay road tax, insurance and fuel duty. I'm sure, however, that their largesse won't stretch quite that far!!!


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

Peter T":yn755nd1 said:


> Jacob":yn755nd1 said:
> 
> 
> > Cycling keeps you fit - increasing your productivity and reducing the burden on the NHS - saving taxpayers money!!
> ...


Fuel duty? On all day breakfasts and muesli bars? :lol: 
Insurance? Some do, but they aren't a danger to the public anything like motor vehicles.
Road tax? Some do - they also drive cars but whilst cycling their cars are off the road - road tax discount for them? Anyway their cost in terms of wear and tear, infrastructure etc is minimal compared to motorists.

You can't beat them - you might as well join them!


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## Jacob (28 Jun 2011)

myturn":33dsrlkw said:


> ...
> The real reason many drivers hate cyclists is because our roads are so overcrowded and it takes so long to get anywhere. Seeing a cyclist make progress while they sit bumper to bumper crawling along gives them an easy target to vent their frustrations at.


Absolutely. The fat lazy f****s are jealous! And so they should be. :lol: :lol: They don't know what they are missing.

Mick, we cycle holiday too (camping). Puglia this spring - lovely. Rotterdam to Ejsburg last year. Cevennes year before. Wales, Scotland, Ireland etc. every now and then.
Monsal Trail last Sunday.
Lytham to Glasson dock Sunday before
Used to Audax a bit.


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## Peter T (28 Jun 2011)

Jacob":1uwb6a97 said:


> myturn":1uwb6a97 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



What a charming, well actually no, moronic would be better, way you have with words!!


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## myturn (29 Jun 2011)

Jacob":3c2wt3dq said:


> myturn":3c2wt3dq said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Ahh, you're a REAL cyclist if you carry your bed and tent on your bike.

I prefer the luxury of, dare I say it, driving (or flying) to where I'm staying and then cycling from there. Disadvantage is I have to start and end up at the same place whereas you can just keep on going wherever you fancy, but I like my comfort!

I wouldn't mind so much sleeping in a tent, it's carrying all the luggage on the bike I would hate. 2 bottles, a saddle-bag and pockets stuffed full is as much as I like to carry.

There's nothing like a cycling holiday for discovering roads, enjoying the scenery and generally feeling on top of the world.


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## Anonymous (29 Jun 2011)

Karl":o8d3odba said:


> How do you know how fast I was driving?



hmm in future i reckon you should be pushing your car through the country lanes, how dare you use an engine!!!



woodbloke":o8d3odba said:


> At last, the definitive article. Is there one of these for honing and sharpening by any chance - Rob



How very tiring!!


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## Sawyer (29 Jun 2011)

Peter T":20qysgas said:


> If they want to support the NHS maybe they should pay road tax, insurance and fuel duty. I'm sure, however, that their largesse won't stretch quite that far!!!


Fact is, most adult cyclists are drivers too, so they _do_ pay all that stuff. Meanwhile, whilst on the bike, there is one less car on the road to add to conjestion, pollution, shortage of parking &c. &c. Cycling makes you healthier too, therefore less strain on the NHS, whilst paying NI, just like any junk food eating, smoking couch potato. Bit of largesse going on there, I think!

Cyclists should obey the law & follow the highway code though. 

Can't stand that rabidly anti-cyclist Jeremy Clarkson: a lardy, sixth rate celebrity who thinks he's oh-so-funny. If he wants to give us a laugh, let's see him try to clean up an oak table top with a jack plane. He'd be k****erd in next to no time.


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## Digit (29 Jun 2011)

I live at the bottom of a Cwm with steep hills out of the village in both directions, so cycling is not a big thing here, horses are though.
I used to ride when I was younger and always slow when approaching horses, on my motor bike 'tother day a met a dou of female riders, and as the bike is somewhat noiser than a car I stopped and turned the engine off, but it is amazing how many drivers just blast past riders.

Roy.


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## Jacob (29 Jun 2011)

myturn":r681ng9p said:


> ..
> Ahh, you're a REAL cyclist if you carry your bed and tent on your bike.....


We don't always do it. In Puglia we had a flat and hired the bikes. A few years back we did hotels in France but it was a freeby as we were assistants on a group tour. Luxury, but claustrophobic. We missed sitting about on campsites in the open air, under the sky etc.
You just get used to the weight of the gear and the slower speed. Slower up hills that is, the weight doesn't hinder otherwise.



> ...is amazing how many drivers just blast past riders...


Ditto past bikes though it'd be worse with a skittish horse of course. 
Horse riders and cyclists are usually quite empathetic, perhaps because they are both out in the open without much protection, liable to falls, vulnerable to bad driving etc


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## Jacob (22 Jul 2012)

Haven't they done well! I thought they might have blown it but Cav came through like a rocket. I didn't see how he got through I'll have to watch the highlights.

Lots of talk about British cycling on the increase, maybe BBC will pick up on the tour one day :roll: .
So Clarkson fans take note - you are on a big loser and there will be even more of us shortly!! Get on your bikes lardies!


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## RogerP (22 Jul 2012)

Jacob":66d9f9sy said:


> Lots of talk about British cycling on the increase, maybe BBC will pick up on the tour one day :roll: .


 Strange how the BBC Website Sports News started featuring the TdF towards the end when before cycling was always buried in "Other Sports" Talk about jumping on bandwagons! :roll:


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## Setch (22 Jul 2012)

myturn":3jkv3ion said:


> The real reason many drivers hate cyclists is because our roads are so overcrowded and it takes so long to get anywhere. Seeing a cyclist make progress while they sit bumper to bumper crawling along gives them an easy target to vent their frustrations at.



I think you're very close here, but not quite on the money. I drive a lot in London, and bear no particular ill will to cyclists, but I do get very narked by the way cyclists will weave through slow traffic, using their small size and maneuverability to make headway, yet as soon as they hit a clear stretch of road, do they return the favour and keep near the kerb to allow traffic to pass.... do they F*&$!


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## Jacob (22 Jul 2012)

Setch":26t8bl0k said:


> myturn":26t8bl0k said:
> 
> 
> > The real reason many drivers hate cyclists is because our roads are so overcrowded and it takes so long to get anywhere. Seeing a cyclist make progress while they sit bumper to bumper crawling along gives them an easy target to vent their frustrations at.
> ...


Keeping near the kerb is dangerous in traffic. The reason being that a slight wobble to the left, if it hits the kerb can throw the bike back into the traffic. Timid beginners do this and and are advised to keep a distance and to hold their space, ignoring the traffic behind. 2 ft or more is necessary, especially as there are other hazards in the gutter such as drain covers or broken glass etc.
Similarly in lanes - cyclists should hog the centre of a lane so that they aren't squeezed in from either side.
Ignorant motorists may not know this. The sooner they learn the better. Now you know!
Drivers who wish to vent their frustrations on cyclists shouldn't be on the road anyway.


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## woodbloke (24 Jul 2012)

Jacob":31xqxj1z said:


> Keeping near the kerb is dangerous in traffic. The reason being that a slight wobble to the left, if it hits the kerb can throw the bike back into the traffic. Timid beginners do this and and are advised to keep a distance and to hold their space, ignoring the traffic behind. 2 ft or more is necessary, especially as there are other hazards in the gutter such as drain covers or broken glass etc.
> Similarly in lanes - cyclists should hog the centre of a lane so that they aren't squeezed in from either side.
> Ignorant motorists may not know this. The sooner they learn the better. Now you know!
> Drivers who wish to vent their frustrations on cyclists shouldn't be on the road anyway.


+1...agree absolutely - Rob


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## bugbear (24 Jul 2012)

Jacob":uv5c56kf said:


> Drivers who wish to vent their frustrations on cyclists shouldn't be on the road anyway.



Yeah - but sadly, they ARE on the road, and if you want to stay alive as a cyclist, you have to allow for it. Or face the consequences.

There's a famous Thelwell cartoon of a small dinghy claiming right of way over the Queen Mary, which (engine gives way to sail) it's entitled to do...

BugBear


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## RogerS (24 Jul 2012)

Cyclists...pah! What is it about the TdF that seems to trigger the same lard-buttocks squeezed into ill-fitting Lycra pretenting they are Bradley Wiggins and giving themselves a coronary in the process. 

Seriously, as long as they apply give and take on the road then they are as entitled as anyone else. But what does get my goat is where you get a bloody phalanx of them two or three abreast with no opportunity to overtake. That's just plain selfish.


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## woodbloke (24 Jul 2012)

RogerS":wx0nk3u6 said:


> ... you get a bloody phalanx of them two or three abreast ...


_Peleton_ is the word your looking for Rog :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol:...have to agree with you though. Cyclists are road users the same as anyone else - Rob


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## foxhunter (24 Jul 2012)

> Cyclists are road users the same as anyone else



No they are not when they try to emulate TdF on narrow country lanes. Groups of more than 50 suddenly appear round a corner. Sometime a body leaps out from a bush into the middle of the road waving a red flag. Single cyclists or small groups are OK but you try living on the route of the Olympic road race at the moment.

Anyone fancy a house swap in Dorking this weekend? You won't be able to go anywhere as the road is closed from 6;00 am on Saturday until 11:00 pm on Sunday. You cannot travel on the route nor can you cross it even on foot as the footpaths and bridleways are closed.

Brian


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## Jacob (24 Jul 2012)

RogerS":15rbf264 said:


> ....
> Seriously, as long as they apply give and take on the road then they are as entitled as anyone else. But what does get my goat is where you get a bloody phalanx of them two or three abreast with no opportunity to overtake. That's just plain selfish.


Perhaps you should stick to motorways Minor roads are for everybody, slow or fast. If you don't like it keep off them.


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## foxhunter (24 Jul 2012)

> RogerS wrote:
> ....
> Seriously, as long as they apply give and take on the road then they are as entitled as anyone else. But what does get my goat is where you get a bloody phalanx of them two or three abreast with no opportunity to overtake. That's just plain selfish.





> Perhaps you should stick to motorways Minor roads are for everybody, slow or fast. If you don't like it keep off them.



Friendly place this! :evil: :twisted: (hammer)


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## Jacob (24 Jul 2012)

foxhunter":6v22gaz2 said:


> ...
> Friendly place this! :evil: :twisted: (hammer)


Unless you are a cyclist. Endless stream of petty complaints and hostility. We also experience it directly on the road.
Anybody would think that all other road users are perfect in every way, which is certainly not true.


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## RogerS (24 Jul 2012)

foxhunter":29v4tuav said:


> > RogerS wrote:
> > ....
> > Seriously, as long as they apply give and take on the road then they are as entitled as anyone else. But what does get my goat is where you get a bloody phalanx of them two or three abreast with no opportunity to overtake. That's just plain selfish.
> 
> ...



Nah...you get used to Jacob's blatherings after while and do what I do..stick him on Ignore.


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## woodbloke (24 Jul 2012)

foxhunter":35824x1l said:


> > Cyclists are road users the same as anyone else
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I meant that in the most general, everyday terms, _not_ in the context of Lord Wiggins :mrgreen: recent TdeF win, e.g. when you witness ejits going through red lights or doing stupid, everyday sort of things on the road. Sure, folk who act like a TdeF peleton on narrow country lanes deserve everything that's likely to come their way - Rob


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## doctor Bob (24 Jul 2012)

20 mins to do 4 miles today, swearing at a ridiculously slow artic lorry in front of me, it was only after 2 miles at about 10-15mph I realised there was a cyclist in front of him which he could not overtake.
ended up with about 100 vehicles behind me, my blood was boiling. He didn't look like he was aware of the chaos he was causing, just having a lovely little cycle ride in the middle of the road.


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## RogerS (24 Jul 2012)

doctor Bob":23va0tbt said:


> 20 mins to do 4 miles today, swearing at a ridiculously slow artic lorry in front of me, it was only after 2 miles at about 10-15mph I realised there was a cyclist in front of him which he could not overtake.
> ended up with about 100 vehicles behind me, my blood was boiling. He didn't look like he was aware of the chaos he was causing, just having a lovely little cycle ride in the middle of the road.



That was Jacob.


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## Mark A (24 Jul 2012)

RogerS":1m2yovun said:


> doctor Bob":1m2yovun said:
> 
> 
> > 20 mins to do 4 miles today, swearing at a ridiculously slow artic lorry in front of me, it was only after 2 miles at about 10-15mph I realised there was a cyclist in front of him which he could not overtake.
> ...


 
:lol:


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Jul 2012)

Yes, but think about the fuel saint cyclist was saving!


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

phil.p":db8x5hgv said:


> Yes, but think about the fuel saint cyclist was saving!



Yebbut...think about all the extra fuel that all those vehicles are going to have to burn to get back up to speed again once they've managed to get past that selfish cyclist. We've had this discussion on another forum.

What gets me is where there is a perfectly good cycle lane but the pippers still insist on using the road.


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## RogerP (25 Jul 2012)

Cyclist lashes out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-18967273


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

RogerP":2fgjjaa9 said:


> Cyclist lashes out http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-18967273



"He was wearing a grey T-shirt with a logo on the chest and shorts."

Wonder what the logo said? Entries on a postcard to ....


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## paulm (25 Jul 2012)

RogerS":1icnvcpo said:


> What gets me is where there is a perfectly good cycle lane but the pippers still insist on using the road.



I've recently treated myself to a new bike with a view to getting a bit of exercise and fresh air and am loving it, although having to build up the distance gradually as I'm so unfit !

Have to say that I thought the same as Roger before, but having used some of them round here I know tend not to use most of them and stay on the road instead !

The reason being that they are also used by pedestrians, dog walkers and the like and it is absolutely asking for trouble to try and anticipate safely where they might wander on the paths next, unless you are happy to proceed at a snails pace or keep slowing down and speeding up to take evasive action 

I prefer to work up to a nice efficient and enjoyable pace and maintain that as far as possible.

The cycle lanes also get interrupted at every T junction round here, so while you can cycle continuously past those on the road, on the cycle lanes you have to stop at each and cross, again really slows things down.

All in all it's just easier, more enjoyable, safer, and more efficient to just stay on the road !!!

The exceptions to that are large busy roundabouts and complex junctions where the lanes and underpasses are a godsend and safer.

I don't wear lycra though and don't hog the middle of the road, and I still swear at the groups of cyclists who get in my way when I'm driving :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

For those who don't like sharing the road with cyclists and other slow moving vehicles with occasional delays inevitable - then keep off the road. It's your choice.
As for causing delays cyclists aren't often to blame as it's usually easy to pull off for a second or two to let things pass - and most do, believe it or not. 
Caravans are a bigger problem in my experience. Shall we have a "caravan owners are all selfish prats" thread? 
Or steam traction engines, horse drawn vehicles, farmers, pedestrians, all sprouts!

paulm - cycle lanes are death traps and usually best avoided. They are designed by idiots.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... st2012.htm


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## bugbear (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob":2ozknyn4 said:


> As for causing delays cyclists aren't often to blame as it's usually easy to pull off for a second or two to let things pass - and most do, believe it or not.



Speaking as a life-long cyclist and car-driver since I was 17 - I don't ever recall seeing a cyclist pull in to let things pass.

Evidence or retraction please.

BugBear


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

bugbear":3hyienpo said:


> Jacob":3hyienpo said:
> 
> 
> > As for causing delays cyclists aren't often to blame as it's usually easy to pull off for a second or two to let things pass - and most do, believe it or not.
> ...


Lets face it it isn't often an issue unless you are driving an HGV in a narrow lane. And when a cyclist does pull in it's not something you'd take note of, or stop and gather "evidence" for bugbear. :lol: 

I do it often myself. Maybe you should too, and set an example. You have to around here. There are narrow lanes where you could hog the road for several miles if you don't let things pass.
If there is a lot of traffic it sometimes isn't viable to give way or you won't get a chance to pull out again. So you just have to carry on regardless and have a bit of a laugh about the Clarksons behind you; huffing and puffing so self-righteously. :lol:
Might hit the jackpot one day and have Clarkson himself and our own RogerS stuck behind me going purple with rage whilst I waste 30 seconds of their valuable time. :lol: :lol:


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Jul 2012)

RogerS":1k58bj2o said:


> phil.p":1k58bj2o said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, but think about the fuel saint cyclist was saving!
> ...



The first point is exactly the dig I was having!


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## bugbear (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob":3kyu4482 said:


> bugbear":3kyu4482 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":3kyu4482 said:
> ...



Your confident assertions of what should happen do not constitute the requested evidence even anecdotal) of what does happen.

So far the only citations for the claim of "most" is "J. Butler", who is atypical in most regards I'm aware of.

BugBear


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

bugbear":3j38x1uz said:


> ......
> So far the only citations for the claim of "most" is "J. Butler", who is atypical in most regards I'm aware of.
> 
> BugBear




I nominate this for "Quote of the Year 2012"


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## Racers (25 Jul 2012)

I've seen farmers in tractors pull over but never cyclists, unless you count the one in the orignal post.

Pete


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

Racers":tmqzuvus said:


> I've seen farmers in tractors pull over but never cyclists, unless you count the one in the orignal post.
> 
> Pete


You obviously haven't noticed but farm tractors and their loads are often very wide as well as slow, whereas cyclists are about the narrowest vehicles you will encounter. Hence farm tractors are difficult to overtake and often pull in. Bicycles are easy to overtake and rarely have to. 
This is why so many of you have never noticed this - firstly because it is rarely necessary, secondly because when it does happen it is utterly unremarkable and unmemorable. 

I'm of my bike at the mo due to leg injury but when I'm back I'm really looking forwards to holding up the traffic again!


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

bugbear":1hay0s5b said:


> Jacob":1hay0s5b said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":1hay0s5b said:
> ...


I take this garbled post as an admission that as a cyclist you personally never pull over for traffic in narrow lanes, giving the rest of us a bad name. :roll:


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## newt (25 Jul 2012)

paulm":1s356w5o said:


> RogerS":1s356w5o said:
> 
> 
> > What gets me is where there is a perfectly good cycle lane but the pippers still insist on using the road.
> ...




Paul, doctor Jim my son rides his bike to work each day. It's about 9 miles most on a cycle path. He was riding to work last week, group of school kids coming towards him, one of them rode straight into him, Jim went over the bars. Broke his wrist badly, 2 hours in surgery. The girl that hit him said sorry she was not looking, she had no injuries. Going to be off work for some time. Cycle to work on cycle paths to avoid cars, then get clobbered by another biker.


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

Cycle paths are bloody dangerous. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... st2012.htm
They know how to do them in Holland but they haven't really begun here at all.


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## kirkpoore1 (25 Jul 2012)

I used to ride my bike to work, back when I lived only 8 miles from work not the 35 miles I have to go now. Never had a problem--though I saw the only tornado I've ever seen in person while I was on my way home one afternoon. (I stopped to watch it, since it was going away from me.)

Now, a good friend of mine was stopped at a corner, when the truck next to him turned. It had a ladder sticking out the back, and clotheslined him. I think he got a concussion out of it. Of course, this guy has had almost everything happen to him, from being struck by lightning to being disemboweled by a tank, so he treated it as a fairly minor matter.

Kirk


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## Racers (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob":1nz2detp said:


> Racers":1nz2detp said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen farmers in tractors pull over but never cyclists, unless you count the one in the orignal post.
> ...




So cyclists don't hold up trafic but you do when you are a cyclist, but you say cyclists don't hold up trafic, but you do when you are a cyclist, but you say....

Does not compute, does not compute, does not compute....

Pete


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

Racers":3eyl56gl said:


> Jacob":3eyl56gl said:
> 
> 
> > Racers":3eyl56gl said:
> ...


Don't worry about it Pete. You just need to get out more, preferably on a bike.

I've just been browsing the cycle lane site. They really are weird - this is my favourite so far, though it's in Holland which is a bit disappointing, they are supposed to be setting us an example -

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.meg/w ... ry2009.htm


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob":1pb2t7ni said:


> Racers":1pb2t7ni said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen farmers in tractors pull over but never cyclists, unless you count the one in the orignal post.
> ...



Garbled thinking again, Jacob... you were advocating only a few posts back that it was perfectly permissible for a cyciist to be in the middle of the lane...thus preventing anyone from overtaking.

Game...Set...Match


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

Racers":1pnd595t said:


> Jacob":1pnd595t said:
> 
> 
> > Racers":1pnd595t said:
> ...



You are forgetting one thing, Pete. This is Jacob talking..


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## Jacob (25 Jul 2012)

RogerS":2h5eciwq said:


> Jacob":2h5eciwq said:
> 
> 
> > Racers":2h5eciwq said:
> ...


If you are in an outer lane, say when approaching lights where you mean to turn right, there is nowhere to pull over so you have to hog the centre or incompetent drivers will attempt to squeeze past with the risk of knocking you over.


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## Racers (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob

My bike has a engine and can overtake easily.

Pete


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## paulm (25 Jul 2012)

newt":1gxblf5x said:


> Paul, doctor Jim my son rides his bike to work each day. It's about 9 miles most on a cycle path. He was riding to work last week, group of school kids coming towards him, one of them rode straight into him, Jim went over the bars. Broke his wrist badly, 2 hours in surgery. The girl that hit him said sorry she was not looking, she had no injuries. Going to be off work for some time. Cycle to work on cycle paths to avoid cars, then get clobbered by another biker.



Ouch, hope he'll mend up okay Pete, with no lasting damage.

Cheers, Paul


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Jul 2012)

Racers":8vvrkiub said:


> Jacob
> 
> My bike has a engine and can overtake easily.
> 
> Pete



 My bike has a 1900cc engine, and can overtake extremely easily. It also has straight through long shotgun pipes, so no one can say they didn't know I was there.  
Phil.


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## woodbloke (25 Jul 2012)

Whilst we're nattering about the whys n'wherefores of cyclists, can anyone explain why the front brake on the Blokebike now emits an ear piercing squeal every time I touch the brake lever. It was fully serviced (new brake blocks, chain, chain set, rear cassette, lubed etc etc) around Feb of this year, so I'm a bit confuzzled :? - Rob


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## RogerBoyle (25 Jul 2012)

Give the brake blocks a light rub of sandpaper to rough them up a bit Stops the squeal and helps to grip the wheel better

Roger


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

woodbloke":1vtdzxfa said:


> Whilst we're nattering about the whys n'wherefores of cyclists, can anyone explain why the front brake on the Blokebike now emits an ear piercing squeal every time I touch the brake lever. It was fully serviced (new brake blocks, chain, chain set, rear cassette, lubed etc etc) around Feb of this year, so I'm a bit confuzzled :? - Rob



It is EU mandated, Rob. It gives pedestrians a split-second chance to jump out of the way when cyclists are using the pavement as the auxiliary cycle lane.


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## RogerS (25 Jul 2012)

Jacob":3fh6tn02 said:


> If you are in an outer lane, say when approaching lights where you mean to turn right, there is nowhere to pull over so you have to hog the centre or incompetent drivers will attempt to squeeze past with the risk of knocking you over.



Not what you said, Jacob.

_Timid beginners do this and and are advised to keep a distance and to hold their space, _

_Similarly in lanes - cyclists should hog the centre of a lane so that they aren't squeezed in from either side._

_I'm really looking forwards to holding up the traffic again!_

Way to go, Jacob....a sensitive road user to the end.


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## Finial (25 Jul 2012)

I don't remember ever being inconvenienced or held up for more than seconds by a cyclist when I'm driving. 

When I'm cycling, cars get in my way at traffic lights. They queue too close to parked cars for cyclists to pass. And they drive and park in the cycle lane even when there is a perfectly good driving lane provided.

If I'm not well out in the lane, I get close passes and vehicles cutting me up at pinch points or when passing parked cars. Also overtaking then immediately turning left, on one occasion knocking me off my bike in the process. All this happens, not every day, but very often. There are too many blind motorists on the road and injuries to cyclists are increasing. Motorists injure and kill cyclists, how often the other way about? 

I see cars jumping red lights every day. Also speeding and talking on the phone. And sometimes driving on the pavement. I see some cyclists doing these things too, but they very rarely do any harm.

So from a cyclists' perspective, Jacob talks perfect sense.

Terry


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## Noel (26 Jul 2012)

woodbloke":1fnz5fcq said:


> Whilst we're nattering about the whys n'wherefores of cyclists, can anyone explain why the front brake on the Blokebike now emits an ear piercing squeal every time I touch the brake lever. It was fully serviced (new brake blocks, chain, chain set, rear cassette, lubed etc etc) around Feb of this year, so I'm a bit confuzzled :? - Rob



Ensure the rear of the blocks touch the rim first. May need to bend the yoke a little to achieve this if there isn't an off-set washer behind the block carriers.


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## bugbear (26 Jul 2012)

Jacob":3su8wa47 said:


> I take this garbled post as an admission that as a cyclist you personally never pull over for traffic in narrow lanes, giving the rest of us a bad name. :roll:



As usual your conclusion is a reflection of your prejudices, not the evidence.

BugBear


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## Jacob (26 Jul 2012)

Finial":1j3v1k84 said:


> .......
> So from a cyclists' perspective, Jacob talks perfect sense.
> 
> Terry


Thanks for that. I sometimes wonder if it's me that's round the bend, but it's them as usual!

2 ft from the kerb, 2ft from parked cars (in case of opening doors), centre of lanes etc are all basic safety measures for cyclists and are things you should tell your kids if they are going on to the road. Cyclists have to be assertive about their road space or they get killed.
Drivers need to know these things too - should be more in the highway code and the driving test.


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## RogerS (26 Jul 2012)

It's the laws of statistics, Jacob.

Sooner or later there has to be one person who agrees with you. Down to chance, really. Nothing more. Wouldn't read too much into it.


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## Racers (26 Jul 2012)

Plus he changes his mind so often he covers most sides of the argument :wink: 

Pete


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## woodbloke (26 Jul 2012)

Jacob":251zrh8v said:


> Finial":251zrh8v said:
> 
> 
> > .......
> ...


I agree in all respects, but I always give more that 2' going round a parked car...at least the width of the doors which is quite a bit more - Rob


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## Finial (26 Jul 2012)

Yes, I'd say more than 2 ft.

Most drivers are fine, but there are a few crazies who aren't fit to be in charge of a car, and quite a lot who are just careless - for example they pull out of junctions right in front of a cyclist, or cut across in front when turning right. I've had both of these incidents within the space of about 75 yards. It's as if cyclists are invisible!


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## Jacob (26 Jul 2012)

woodbloke":204owgjh said:


> .....
> I agree in all respects, but I always give more that 2' going round a parked car...at least the width of the doors which is quite a bit more - Rob


I would have said 3ft but I thought it might trigger one of Roger's funny turns. :roll: :lol:


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## RogerS (26 Jul 2012)

Remind you of anyone ?


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## woodbloke (26 Jul 2012)

RogerS":3r90si09 said:


> Remind you of anyone ?



Doesn't remind me of anyone round here Rog :---) :-" - Rob


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## SBJ (26 Jul 2012)

As a cyclist and a motorist, it's quite clear that there are good and bad on both sides.

The worst road user, is the one that is dangerous. That is usually the motorist, usually impatient trying to pass a cyclist when it's not appropriate. This leads to cyclists needing to take up "primary" positions on the road to protect themselves. The thought that you would put someones life at risk for the sake of a few seconds until it's safe to pass is quite ridiculous.

The next issue is the inconsiderate road user, and I think that the cyclist is more guilty of this. I quite often follow cyclists on narrow lanes where it isn't possible to pass and I find it very frustrating when the cyclist doesn't slow down and allow me to pass safely.


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## John Brown (26 Jul 2012)

Noel":2semosb0 said:


> woodbloke":2semosb0 said:
> 
> 
> > Whilst we're nattering about the whys n'wherefores of cyclists, can anyone explain why the front brake on the Blokebike now emits an ear piercing squeal every time I touch the brake lever. It was fully serviced (new brake blocks, chain, chain set, rear cassette, lubed etc etc) around Feb of this year, so I'm a bit confuzzled :? - Rob
> ...



I think it's the other way round.
The front of the brake block should contact the rim first.


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## newt (26 Jul 2012)

John Brown":2vp0n71j said:


> Noel":2vp0n71j said:
> 
> 
> > woodbloke":2vp0n71j said:
> ...



+1


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## Noel (26 Jul 2012)

Yes, sorry, toe-in so front first. I should read before I press submit. And as mentioned clean blocks and rim.

Is this the bike you bought last year?


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## paulm (26 Jul 2012)

I sold my old mountain bike on ebay recently and treated myself to a half decent new one, no comparison really. 

The brakes on this one, and many new ones these days I guess, are hydraulic disc brakes rather than the old cable pull rubber blocks, and the stopping performance is amazing ! Have to be even more careful of the front brake than usual to avoid flying over the handlebars !

Picked one with front suspension too, as I was getting bad wrist ache riding the old one, and that makes a big difference to riding comfort too.

Too many gears though, 24 in total and can get a bit confusing :roll: especially with two shift levers on each handlebar, but the trigger shifts are another impressive improvement on the old levers or twist grips.

Still have to get off and push it up the steep bits though given my current fitness levels :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## woodbloke (26 Jul 2012)

Noel":2d25m4ra said:


> Yes, sorry, toe-in so front first. I should read before I press submit. And as mentioned clean blocks and rim.
> 
> Is this the bike you bought last year?


No, this is the road bike, the one with the squeaky brakes is a Trek 7.5 hybrid - Rob


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## mailee (26 Jul 2012)

Well this really has been an entertaining thread. :lol: There are good and bad road users regardless of what mode of transport they choose. I always drive by one of the rules my instructor told me: "Treat everyone on the road as an silly person" I certainly won't be replacing my transport for a push bike though as I couldn't get a wardrobe on a bike! :lol: I no longer have a car since buying the van but intend to buy a motorcycle in the future. I wouldn't even consider a push bike though as I am thin enough already.


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

mailee":asld9r14 said:


> .......I certainly won't be replacing my transport for a push bike though as I couldn't get a wardrobe on a bike! :lol: ......


Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!


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## bugbear (27 Jul 2012)

SBJ":8lw28ayk said:


> As a cyclist and a motorist, it's quite clear that there are good and bad on both sides.
> 
> The worst road user, is the one that is dangerous. That is usually the motorist, usually impatient trying to pass a cyclist when it's not appropriate. This leads to cyclists needing to take up "primary" positions on the road to protect themselves. The thought that you would put someones life at risk for the sake of a few seconds until it's safe to pass is quite ridiculous.
> 
> The next issue is the inconsiderate road user, and I think that the cyclist is more guilty of this. I quite often follow cyclists on narrow lanes where it isn't possible to pass and I find it very frustrating when the cyclist doesn't slow down and allow me to pass safely.



Now you've introduced balance and reason into a perfectly decent argument!

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

BugBear


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

bugbear":3r1r4d7w said:


> SBJ":3r1r4d7w said:
> 
> 
> > As a cyclist and a motorist, it's quite clear that there are good and bad on both sides.
> ...


Nonsense. 
"Cyclists on narrow lanes" aren't being inconsiderate, they are merely slow. 
It's inconsiderate of our Mr Toads to expect cyclists to throw themselves into the ditch at every encounter.


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## Noel (27 Jul 2012)

We have quite narrow roads around here (canny call them "lanes", a lane is a dirty, unsurfaced grass strewn track leading to a field or something similar....) and at times you get the odd car sitting on your back wheel. Often easier just to let them past and enjoy the ride.


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## Racers (27 Jul 2012)

Jacob

If cyclists are holding up trafic then thery are inconsiderate, you wouldn't block a pedestrians progress or an ambulance/fire engine/police car so why is it o/k to slow down cars.

Just give me one GOOD reason.

Pete


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

Racers":35pzvq0t said:


> ....why is it o/k to slow down cars.
> 
> Just give me one GOOD reason.
> 
> Pete


It's OK to slow down cars because they can't go as fast as cars. In other words they have no choice. 
When it comes to giving way, pulling over etc they are as inconsiderate/considerate as any other road users. 
No claims to having better manners than car drivers, buy cyclists do have to be a bit assertive about their road space - as we have explained in earlier posts.
And as I've said, if you don't like sharing the road with all the other varieties of other users, don't use them. You won't be missed!


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## Racers (27 Jul 2012)

Jacob

That’s not even a reason let alone a good one.

If you were hobbling along a narrow pavement blocking other peoples progress that would be o/k would it? and you wouldn't care that people where getting frustrated? 

Its all about being a nice person and helping your fellow man, but I don't supose you understand that.


Pete


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

Racers":185btys7 said:


> .....
> If you were hobbling along a narrow pavement blocking other peoples progress that would be o/k would it?


Yes of course, if you can't do any better


> and you wouldn't care that people where getting frustrated?


No I wouldn't feel guilty about hobbling - I've been doing that myself recently, with crutches.


> Its all about being a nice person and helping your fellow man, ........
> 
> Pete


Yes, you should be a lot nicer to cyclists too, instead of driving around wittering and moaning - you are only spoiling your own day, we couldn't give a monkey's.


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## Racers (27 Jul 2012)

Jacob

So you speak for all cyclists?

I am nice to cyclists I ride a motorbike.

Pete


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

Yawn


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## paulm (27 Jul 2012)

Racers":1ji4o5fh said:


> If you were hobbling along a narrow pavement blocking other peoples progress that would be o/k would it? and you wouldn't care that people where getting frustrated?
> Pete



So if you were walking along a narrow pavement and got stuck behind someone elderly or disabled, or a mum with toddler or pram, you would expect them to get out of your way, to pull over and let you pass, as you can go faster than them and are too impatient or important to wait for a few seconds or couple of minutes ?

Cheers, Paul


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## bugbear (27 Jul 2012)

Jacob":1kw60pba said:


> Nonsense.
> "Cyclists on narrow lanes" aren't being inconsiderate, they are merely slow.
> It's inconsiderate of our Mr Toads to expect cyclists to throw themselves into the ditch at every encounter.





someone calling themselves Jacob":1kw60pba said:


> As for causing delays cyclists aren't often to blame as it's usually easy to pull off for a second or two to let things pass - and most do, believe it or not.



Are there two Jacob Butlers?

BugBear


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## Racers (27 Jul 2012)

paulm":2w4i15ya said:


> Racers":2w4i15ya said:
> 
> 
> > If you were hobbling along a narrow pavement blocking other peoples progress that would be o/k would it? and you wouldn't care that people where getting frustrated?
> ...



Only if they where doing it deliberately, like Jacob is sugesting he will when he back on his bike.
I would expect most thoughtfully people to behave civilly.

Pete


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## Racers (27 Jul 2012)

Jacob":2eglr37p said:


> Yawn




Sucess, I shut to old winger up.

Pete


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## JakeS (27 Jul 2012)

bugbear":3t6cfb39 said:


> Are there two Jacob Butlers?



I don't see any particular contradiction there... sometimes it's possible to pull over and let stuff past, and if it's reasonable to do so, then it's the polite thing to do. Sometimes it's not possible, but silly person drivers expect - or at least would love - cyclists to do it anyway. If there's a ditch to the side of the road, it's no safer to drive into it on your bike than it would be in a car.

Similarly, I have nothing against getting stuck behind people pushing prams down the street where it's not wide enough to pass them, because people with small children also sometimes need to go to the shops and buy food... but I do get annoyed when I encounter two of them stopped alongside each other, blocking the entire path chatting to each other when there would be enough space for people to pass were they to arrange their prams in a marginally-less-convenient-for-them manner.

I found a pair of women chatting at the (single) exit to the CoOp next to our office the other day; one of them had an empty shopping trolley pushed out to the side in what looked like a deliberate attempt to barricade the exit... I would nominate her as far more inconsiderate than your average country-lane cyclist.


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## RogerS (27 Jul 2012)

paulm":2bmooidk said:


> Racers":2bmooidk said:
> 
> 
> > If you were hobbling along a narrow pavement blocking other peoples progress that would be o/k would it? and you wouldn't care that people where getting frustrated?
> ...



I usually find that there is an accommodation worked out around my way. Yes, if you come across someone going slower than you then it is courteous to slow down. What usually then happens is that within a very short while, they will pause and let you pass by. Courtesy works both ways.

I do get hacked off when, for example, I stand aside to let some person on an invalid carriage go past that many can't even be bothered to either acknowledge your presence or even say thank you.

Also with people striding towards you head down busily texting and expecting others to get out of their way. Mind you, that's very easily dealt with :twisted:


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## Finial (27 Jul 2012)

JakeS said:
_I don't see any particular contradiction there... sometimes it's possible to pull over and let stuff past, and if it's reasonable to do so, then it's the polite thing to do. Sometimes it's not possible, but silly person drivers expect - or at least would love - cyclists to do it anyway. If there's a ditch to the side of the road, it's no safer to drive into it on your bike than it would be in a car._

Absolutely right!

Cyclists would be happier to ride nearer the kerb if drivers were more careful and considerate. About the only way to limit dangerous overtakes is to ride well out in the lane. Drivers who don't like this should try cycling at the side of the road with vehicles whizzing past inches from their elbow. Then they can decide if they still think it's a good idea.

Terry


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## Jacob (27 Jul 2012)

RogerS":1u4qw6zc said:


> paulm":1u4qw6zc said:
> 
> 
> > Racers":1u4qw6zc said:
> ...


Thank you so much for this detailed explanation of etiquette when dealing with slow and disadvantaged people, I would never have got it otherwise! Do you give them a royal wave as you pass, and do they curtsy?


> I do get hacked off when, for example, I stand aside to let some person on an invalid carriage go past that many can't even be bothered to either acknowledge your presence or even say thank you.


Not as hacked off as they are to be stuck in an invalid carriage and having people like you expecting to be thanked when they step out of your way.


> Also with people striding towards you head down busily texting and expecting others to get out of their way. Mind you, that's very easily dealt with :twisted:


Dear oh dear life is full of problems.


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## RogerS (27 Jul 2012)

Oooooohh...the troll rebounds.


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