# How to free jammed mortise lock



## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

This week is obviously the week for everything to break in my house. So far I've had a broken oven (thanks for the help in fixing that), blocked drain, broken macerator, a few minor things and now a jammed lock. I've only been here 3 months.

The wooden side door to the garage has a mortise lock. The handle moves the latchbolt (is that the correct term) freely but the key operated dead lock is jammed. I can move the key about a sixth of a turn then it is rock solid. I can get inside the garage (through the up and over door) and it is the same when operating from the inside.

I have a feeling something inside the lock has moved/broken. I think this because about 2 months ago I had a similar problem but on that occasion the door was open, so I was able to take the handles off and slide the lock out of the edge of the door. I took it apart and fixed it. Problem this time is its jammed in the closed and locked position so I cant get to any part of the lock.

Any suggestion of what I can do without damaging the frame? Or do I need a locksmith, or is there even anything a locksmith can do?

Clearly I will be fitting a new lock if I get it out this time and not fixing it again.

Thanks

Mark


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Jan 2015)

Get a thin cutting disc for an angle grinder and cut the bolt between the door and the frame - if you're careful you won't even touch the frame or the door. Two minute job.


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## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

Any idea how thin the thinest are Phil. The fit is very snug and can't see me doing it without causing some damage. How hard is the metal likely to be, possibly thinking hacksaw blade as an alternative

Mark


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Jan 2015)

I've used 1.6mm - 1/16". You might get thinner, but there aren't many doors that don't have a larger gap than that - they wouldn't open or close. The bolt possibly has a roller in it which precludes the use of a hacksaw.


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## petermillard (10 Jan 2015)

Metal cutting blade in a multitool works well, if a little slower than a grinder.

Hth Pete


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## powertools (10 Jan 2015)

Grind or file the tops of the hinge pins and tap the pins out with a nail and then take off the door from the hinge side when you have repaired the lock replace the pins with the non cut off ends uppermost.


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## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

Several good ideas guys thanks. I don't have a multitool (assuming you mean Dremel-like, Pete) so can't do that. I'll take a look for the thin grinder blades. I'll also take a look at the hinges tomorrow, that method never crossed my mind powertools.

Thanks

Mark


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## RogerP (10 Jan 2015)

This sort of multi-tool would do the job without damage to the door...


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## blackrodd (10 Jan 2015)

powertools":2o1gw6ss said:


> Grind or file the tops of the hinge pins and tap the pins out with a nail and then take off the door from the hinge side when you have repaired the lock replace the pins with the non cut off ends uppermost.




+1 as above, very good idea, no damage, Simples. 
Rodders


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Jan 2015)

Assuming you can get the pins out. The lock is knackered - why make work? Two minutes and it's cut.


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## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

Don't have ones of those either Roger though a Fein multimaster is on the wish list  

Mark


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## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

Another Q, this time in relation to the replacement lock I'm going to need. I'd like to buy the new one in advance of getting the old one out so I can fit it straight away and not have compromised security. Yes I can screw the door shut but would like to slot the new one straight in.

But do all these locks have the same geometry? IE will the key holes, door handle holes be the same, or do I need to be careful what I buy. Obviously I'd like to drop the new one in and all line up rather than cut new holes. Are they all the same?

Mark


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## blackrodd (10 Jan 2015)

Silly question first, Is the key you are using, the right one for that lock?
I take it you have tried the key at different depths, in the lock. (I've been caught out before)!
Get The right backset (door edge to handle spindle/key centre) and having just changed 7 locks, for replacement chubb-type with older mortice locks, the newer ones I found to be just a little tighter in the mortice, which needed easing, the screw holes were different and the lock boxes needed lowering 3mm. 
But no real problems HTH Regards Rodders


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## The Bear (10 Jan 2015)

Haha yes the right key, my wife made me check that! Yes Also tried different depths and slight angles. Because it got jammed in the open position a few months ago I'm pretty certain the bit that slipped inside the lock has slipped again. I won't be opening it and repairing at again though even if I did get it out without damaging it, too much hassle for it to happen a third time!

Looking online they seem to be 22mm wide, and vary in height so I guess I'm going to have to get the old one out first. 

Mark


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## blackrodd (11 Jan 2015)

The Bear":3tdhaki2 said:


> Haha yes the right key, my wife made me check that! Yes Also tried different depths and slight angles. Because it got jammed in the open position a few months ago I'm pretty certain the bit that slipped inside the lock has slipped again. I won't be opening it and repairing at again though even if I did get it out without damaging it, too much hassle for it to happen a third time!
> 
> Looking online they seem to be 22mm wide, and vary in height so I guess I'm going to have to get the old one out first.
> 
> Mark


AHH! sorry to hear that.
As you say get the old lock out first, and try and replace like for like may be a good idea. 
I believe Union have lost the manufacturing and sales rights under the Chubb banner, so I'm not sure on that front.
If you don't know, Can I advise you not to buy a lock with any other than brass catch and lock tongue?
In a rush I bought a lock with aluminium bits mentioned, it marked easily and formed a groove,so the catch just jammed, just as if it were angle ground within about 6 months! 
Regards Rodders


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## The Bear (11 Jan 2015)

I'll bear that in mind, thanks

Mark


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## petermillard (11 Jan 2015)

Hi. Yes, I meant a Fein-type multitool, not a dremel. Sounds like you have a sash lock - combined lever handle and mortice lock?? The lock body should be a standard size, assuming it's a UK lock; standard lock depths are 2 1/2" / 63mm or 3" / 75mm - you can check from outside by measuring the backset i.e. the distance between the door edge and the keyhole centre:-






HTH Pete


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## bugbear (11 Jan 2015)

I successfully repaired a mortise lock that was jamming "sometimes" ) with help, so I wouldn't write it
off yet.

are-mortise-locks-5-lever-a-standard-size-t76566.html

(many thank again to Bern)

BugBear


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## flying haggis (11 Jan 2015)

1mm thick cutting discs from toolstation

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+T ... isc/p95605


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## DrPhill (11 Jan 2015)

Pedant alert



petermillard":ek2hv7tt said:


> assuming it's a UK lock; standard lock depths are 2 1/2" / 63mm or 3" / 65mm -



3" / 75mm ?

An interesting topic. Tell us how it all turns out.


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## The Bear (11 Jan 2015)

Cheers for that Pete, I'll measure tomorrow, though Bugbears link suggests there can still be a bit of variation.

Bugbear, I've fixed it once, I'm going to get a new one as I can do without the hassle of it breaking a third time

Haggis, thanks, I've also found some 1mm Bosch ones on ebay which are even cheaper and no postage cost

Thanks everyone, I'll let you know which method I go for in the end and how I get on

Mark


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## petermillard (11 Jan 2015)

DrPhill":1nf3nvqq said:


> Pedant alert
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Typo, fixed now, thanks. The diagram was right though 

P


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## The Bear (13 Jan 2015)

I had a close look at the hinges but the pins don't have ends to grind off. No prob in itself but I was worried they would therefore be too tight to knock out, otherwise they would surely work their way up or down gradually in use. 

I bought some thin grinder discs only 1mm but these were still too wide as the gap is very small. Even though the door doesn't bind or have any noticeable undercut

Going to put the rest of this message on another post in a minute as my phone is playing up

Mark


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## The Bear (13 Jan 2015)

Anyway I went for the grinder at the dead bolt. I intend to change this door in the mid term as I don't actually like it and there is a bit of rot near the bottom. Therefore I wanted to keep the frame undamaged and not too bothered by some minor damage to the door as long as it's still usable and secure
Here's the picks of each. The frame isn't damaged just paint taken off. Minor gouge in the door. What I found was I couldn't get enough depth with the 4 inch grinder even when I took the handle off so I had to do the last bit with a hack saw blade. If you don't have one of these handles I recommend one after years of struggling without - so handy

I managed to take the lock oh, take it to the shop to match a new one and install it in same door so no loss of security. 

Thanks for all the suggestions and help

Mark


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## blackrodd (13 Jan 2015)

At least you've got the tongue cut out and the frame is still intact. 
It's surprising how annoying some of these jobs can be, about the homestead
Regards Rodders


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