# Marking Gauges - suggestions



## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

I am in the market for a couple of new marking gauges. I currently have one of the Quangshen wheel type marking gauges and a rubbish el cheapo dual marking / mortise gauge that seems to lose its setting every time I put it down on the bench.

The wheel gauge is ok but I find it fiddly to hold at times plus I am starting to see the benefit of having a couple of gauges set up for different things when doing an ongoing project over a number of days / weeks. 

So I need a good traditional (non wheel type) mortise gauge and I am thinking a cutting gauge would be a good addition.

The mortise gauge options seem to be limited to Joseph Marples 2 offerings (standard and Trial 1) or the crown gauge. I see that Peter Sefton has Marples make a slightly different spec gauge for his school and shop - is this the one to get?

For the cutting gauge i like the look of the Hamilton gauges (http://www.hamiltontools.com/hamilton-marking-gauge/) but as these are coming from the states a £50 gauge ends up being north of £80 by the time you what on the import / vat / admin fees of importing it.


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## BluegillUK (24 Apr 2017)

£50 for a marking gauge? Eek!


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## NazNomad (24 Apr 2017)

As above... I bet you almost fell off your unicorn when you saw the price of that?

I prefer nearer the 50p range. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-a- ... rubbish-wood/


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## woodbrains (24 Apr 2017)

Hello,

It is his money, why shouldn't he?

I can't comment on the Hamilton one as I've never used one, i really like wheel gauges TBH, Veritas micro adjust ones the gauge of choice.

However, if that is the sort of tool you like, the Hamilton looks fine. You could make your own, though and make them as fancy or plain as you like dependant on the timber choice. They are relatively simple tools and you could knock off half a dozen functional ones in half a day. If you are a turner, round shafts in a neat Forstner hole is half the job. 

However, if you really like the high end look, it is not beyond even those with modest skill to make a rosewood one or similar. 

Mike.


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## deema (24 Apr 2017)

The simplist and cheapest solution is to make a marking gauge out of scraps. I rather like this as a how to:

https://logancabinetshoppe.wordpress.co ... pisode-29/


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## D_W (24 Apr 2017)

Gentleman's marking gauge. The tool beginner's booby traps out there are easy small things that you could make (and it would be good for skill development to make them well). Marking gauges, dovetail markers, marking knives. 

I'd save that money to be spent on wood or carving tools. I don't know of a good cheap source for either of those.


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## woodbrains (24 Apr 2017)

Petey83":2yjvo6r1 said:


> Maybe I could try making a cutting gauge but i'd not know where to start on a mortise gauge.



Hello,

Simplify, simplify, simplify! If you make your own mortice gauge, who says it has to be adjustable? The pin spacings, that is.

How many mortice chisels do you currently use....three? Make a gauge with pin spacings to match your mortice chisels. Foolproof and quick and simple. Make them from different fancy woods to distinguish between them.

Alternatively, buy nice one if you want and don't let anyone here put you off. If the nay sayers were to actually make a gauge to the standard of the ones you like, I'd be surprised if they would sell them for as little as 50 quid. Arguably they are good value if you wanted one.

Mike.


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

I'm with Mike (woodbrains). Making your own is a good option, once your skills and confidence allow. For pins, masonry nails make very durable ones, but even panel pins will serve. Benjamin Seaton in his tool chest had about eight mortice chisels, and had two gauge stems, each with two pins on each face to suit each chisel - the end result looks like a small but nasty offensive weapon!

However, to get started, the basic Marples is a fairly pragmatic option. Mine served me for about three decades (and still would be if I hadn't bought a fancy vintage ebony and brass oval-headed one). You may find that you have to even up the heights of the pins and slightly reshape them with a small file, so that they mark even depth scratches, but that's actually a lot easier than it sounds.

There's probably another thread in the slight faults in the knurled screw lock type of gauge - one fault being that the pins won't close up closer than about 1/4", so if you do any morticing narrower than that (rare!) you have a problem. However, with a modicum of care, they do work well enough for most jobs. 

A bit of technique in use helps - a very light first pass, followed by a slightly heavier one, then a third at 'full depth' stops the tendency to follow the grain and end up with slanty mortices or tenons, as does using the gauge with the pin points 'trailing' to avoid any possibility of pins digging in. Also, keep a bit of pressure against the outside of the fence to keep it nicely in contact with the job, and develop a rolling action of the hand to bring the pins down into light contact, make a gauging pass, then out of cut to return.

Ditto on technique for all marking and cutting gauges - and reshape the little cutter of the latter to a nice, rounded end rather than the sharp 'vee' they seem to be supplied with. They work more smoothly, then. Again, Marples are a good place to start, I think - basic or Trial 1 as you see fit.


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## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

Cheshirechappie":h84nmtr6 said:


> I'm with Mike (woodbrains). Making your own is a good option, once your skills and confidence allow. For pins, masonry nails make very durable ones, but even panel pins will serve. Benjamin Seaton in his tool chest had about eight mortice chisels, and had two gauge stems, each with two pins on each face to suit each chisel - the end result looks like a small but nasty offensive weapon!
> 
> However, to get started, the basic Marples is a fairly pragmatic option. Mine served me for about three decades (and still would be if I hadn't bought a fancy vintage ebony and brass oval-headed one). You may find that you have to even up the heights of the pins and slightly reshape them with a small file, so that they mark even depth scratches, but that's actually a lot easier than it sounds.
> 
> ...




thanks - the technique bit is where i am struggling with the wheel gauge, maybe that's because the evening classes I went to years back were all taught using the traditional type. The QS wheel gauge is good but I have to put more concentration into using it. The problem with my current mortise gauge is there is it does not seem to lock up very well so if I put it down on the bench and it gets a little knock as I move the timber about it tends to lose its setting not a problem to re-set it but it does become annoying after a while.


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

You aren't the first person to have trouble with screw locking gauges, and you certainly won't be the last. Unless the stem is a very close fit in the head, there's scope for a little bit of pivoting, allowing the head to 'walk' down the stem bit by bit.

This may be a solution for a later date when confidence is up a bit, but Richard Maguire's approach is worth a thought - http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/a-good-gauge/


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## John15 (24 Apr 2017)

The Joseph Marples marking and mortice gauges as sold by Woodworkers Workshop are nicely made. There are cheaper ones available that work fine but not so well finished - have a look on ebay, also for second-hand ones. 

John


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Apr 2017)

Hi Petey


What makes a decent marking gauge? 

Accepting that one can score a line with just about anything, and that one can get used to using even the most non-ergonomic designs. Further, good design does not have to cost much, and spending more does not assure you of a good marking gauge.

In my opinion, there are five features to look for: how comfortable it is in the hand, how easy it is to adjust, the quality of the line, the versatility of set ups, and how easy it it to sharpen the blade.

What is comfortable for one is not comfortable for another. I like a gauge that may be adjusted in one hand.

I like thin lines across the grain, and the best come from either a wheel gauge or a sharp knife gauge. Pins are excellent with the grain, such as in a mortice gauge, but they can tear across the grain. 

Gauges that have wheels and Japanese gauges that have bent knives have an advantage over the more traditional gauge with inset knives and pins - only the former can do this (which is really helpful when setting up boards for dovetailing) ...







The Hamilton cannot do this. Nor can this one, which I made with a pin-filed-into-a-knife ...






There are plans here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... auges.html

Now, incidentally, the Japanese gauge above cost $17. OK, it started life as a cheap gauge which I modified, but it exemplifies all the best qualities in a marking gauge, regardless of cost. Here is a link to it: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... f206d6.jpg

I've made a lot of gauges, both wheel and knife, but I also own a few wheel gauges from Lee Valley and Tite-Mark. These are in a class of their own. Incidentally, making tools is for those that enjoy the process (as I do), but unnecessary if all you want to do is enjoy building furniture. Just get one of those below ...

Veritas (Lee Valley) ...






Tite-Mark ...






Of these, I favour the TM (because it is a jewel that will bring a smile to your face every time you use it), however I will make clear that a micro adjuster is not that important in my world - I am used to making fine adjustments with pinched fingers or a tap on the bench top. 

I really like the Japanese knife gauges, and my absolute favourite is the Kinshiro mortice gauge, which was a gift. They are no longer manufactured. Here it is on the right ...






This type of gauge may be used as a single knife as well. But mortice gauges are another story for another time.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Hi Petey
> 
> What makes a decent marking gauge?
> 
> ...



Thanks for a very informative post Derek. I perhaps need to practice my technique with the wheel gauge as the Quangshen gauge is pretty well made (not as nice as the tightmark seems to be) but I just seem to find it difficult to hold tight to the work. If it had one gripe about it then it would be that the micro adjust on it is a tad easy to use when you don't want to.


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## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

Cheshirechappie":21s5joco said:


> You aren't the first person to have trouble with screw locking gauges, and you certainly won't be the last. Unless the stem is a very close fit in the head, there's scope for a little bit of pivoting, allowing the head to 'walk' down the stem bit by bit.
> 
> This may be a solution for a later date when confidence is up a bit, but Richard Maguire's approach is worth a thought - http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/a-good-gauge/



Richards stuff is usually well explained. Looking at the design in the picture I am guessing he used a spookshave to shape the stem?


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## bugbear (24 Apr 2017)

Cheshirechappie":sya5nx32 said:


> A bit of technique in use helps - a very light first pass, followed by a slightly heavier one, then a third at 'full depth' stops the tendency to follow the grain and end up with slanty mortices or tenons, as does using the gauge with the pin points 'trailing' to avoid any possibility of pins digging in. Also, keep a bit of pressure against the outside of the fence to keep it nicely in contact with the job, and develop a rolling action of the hand to bring the pins down into light contact, make a gauging pass, then out of cut to return.



Well explained!

I'll add - on long workpieces I do the light-harder-final sequence in around 10" segments, rather than full length.

EDIT: I'll try to find the Hayward picture of how to hold/use the gauge. If you're right handed it's essentially
Thumb presses cutter down onto workpiece
Fore finger over the fence/body of the gauge
Middle finger presses body of gauge leftwards into workpiece

The picture is better than my words!

EDIT2; the saintly Jeff Gorman - this is close enough.
http://www.amgron.clara.net/using%20mar ... uge79.html

BugBear


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

Petey83":nm7xhdkl said:


> Cheshirechappie":nm7xhdkl said:
> 
> 
> > You aren't the first person to have trouble with screw locking gauges, and you certainly won't be the last. Unless the stem is a very close fit in the head, there's scope for a little bit of pivoting, allowing the head to 'walk' down the stem bit by bit.
> ...



Probably a small bench plane or maybe a block plane - something with a straight sole, anyway. A spokeshave having such a short sole could leave the stem slightly scalloped in it's length, and a marking/cutting/mortice gauge would work better if the stem stayed dead-on perpendicular to the head both up-down and front-to-back as you see it when working it.

If a marking gauge stem has slight humps and bumps, the head makes a slightly different angle to the stem when locked in different positions along it. Thus, when marking thin stock, a different part of the head contacts the job than when using the same setting on thick stock - so the marked position will be slightly different on two different workpieces. With the stem straight, the head locks in the same attitude wherever it is along the stem.

Little inaccuracies in marking and measuring tools tend to add up during the course of a job, so the more you can eliminate the less the chance of them causing problems with a build later. It doesn't really matter if the non-critical parts of a marking tool look beaten up and rough, as long as the critical working parts mate nicely together, and are 'tight' and accurate when locked up after adjusting to size.

Edit to add - the extra accuracy of fit and finish (as opposed to appearance) is one reason why the more expensive gauges tend to be nicer and more satisfying to use. However, the law of diminishing returns applies, and it's possible to pay a LOT more for only a miniscule increase in performance. Exactly where the line is drawn (pun intended) is, of course, a matter of personal choice. I reckon Marples have a good working balance of quality and price, and my choice is not to pay more - others will have different opinions, of course!


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

bugbear":2yja14l8 said:


> Cheshirechappie":2yja14l8 said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of technique in use helps - a very light first pass, followed by a slightly heavier one, then a third at 'full depth' stops the tendency to follow the grain and end up with slanty mortices or tenons, as does using the gauge with the pin points 'trailing' to avoid any possibility of pins digging in. Also, keep a bit of pressure against the outside of the fence to keep it nicely in contact with the job, and develop a rolling action of the hand to bring the pins down into light contact, make a gauging pass, then out of cut to return.
> ...



Thanks BB - and those pictures add a very great deal to the explanation.


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## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

bugbear":1r3z9w66 said:


> Cheshirechappie":1r3z9w66 said:
> 
> 
> > A bit of technique in use helps - a very light first pass, followed by a slightly heavier one, then a third at 'full depth' stops the tendency to follow the grain and end up with slanty mortices or tenons, as does using the gauge with the pin points 'trailing' to avoid any possibility of pins digging in. Also, keep a bit of pressure against the outside of the fence to keep it nicely in contact with the job, and develop a rolling action of the hand to bring the pins down into light contact, make a gauging pass, then out of cut to return.
> ...


 
Does this technique extend to the wheel type gauges? This is how I use the cheap mortise gauge I have but seem to struggle to replicate it on a wheel gauge.


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## thetyreman (24 Apr 2017)

+1 for the joseph marples gauges, I've got the trial 1 combination gauge, not cheap at around £50, but I wanted something decent, to last me a lifetime, it's a great tool and I feel confident it will definitely outlast me.


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## woodbloke65 (24 Apr 2017)

I've tried all sorts of gauges over the years and I now use the Japanese style, two shown here that I made a few years ago.





They take about a couple of hours to make and cost nothing apart from some odds out the scrap bin. In use, they're absolutely rock solid with no slippage of the stock on the stem. The cutter in one is made from a bit of HSS hacksaw blade and the panel gauge uses a ground down masonry nail. Cost about 1p. As I've done them here, there's some silver soldering involved on the screw thread but that's not too difficult to do - Rob


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

On wheel-type marking gauges, I only own one, and I have to admit to not really getting on with it*, so I'd probably listen to others more than me on this one; however, my understanding is that the idea of the wheel is that it rotates over any changes of grain, and thus doesn't follow them. Thus, they work better with one firm pass - but still pay attention to keeping the fence in contact with the job's reference face.

*The wheel keeps coming loose on mine, no matter what I do with the screw. Thus, the cutting edge (well, periphery) can wander a bit, giving inaccuracy. I won't name the maker.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Apr 2017)

Hi Petey

Multiple strokes is a basic, fundamental method in using _all _gauges - wheel, knife and pin. Trying to make a do-it-all-in-one-stroke line will likely follow the grain and be inaccurate. Further, with dovetails, for example, one might make a light pass, and then only deepen the lines where you wish to remove waste. Lines that are too deep show up later (I do not like to leave lines behind, if I can avoid it), and deeper lines are _also wider_ than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost. Bottom line (sic), light strokes until you reach the level you need.

This information does not help you choose a better gauge, only helps you use whatever gauge you have better.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Racers (24 Apr 2017)

Marking gauges, three bits of wood and a bit of steel, make your own I did.



Marking gauges by Racers, on Flickr

Then you can adapt them for other uses.



7th November by Racers, on Flickr

I am about to start on another batch!

Pete


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Apr 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Hi Petey
> 
> Multiple strokes is a basic, fundamental method in using _all _gauges - wheel, knife and pin. Trying to make a do-it-all-in-one-stroke line will likely follow the grain and be inaccurate. Further, with dovetails, for example, one might make a light pass, and then only deepen the lines where you wish to remove waste. Lines that are too deep show up later (I do not like to leave lines behind, if I can avoid it), and deeper lines are _also wider_ than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost. Bottom line (sic), light strokes until you reach the level you need.
> 
> ...



Well - there ya go! I'm flat wrong on wheel marking gauge technique, so disregard my last post!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Apr 2017)

Cheshirechappie":37maip2t said:


> On wheel-type marking gauges, I only own one, and I have to admit to not really getting on with it*, so I'd probably listen to others more than me on this one; however, my understanding is that the idea of the wheel is that it rotates over any changes of grain, and thus doesn't follow them. Thus, they work better with one firm pass - but still pay attention to keeping the fence in contact with the job's reference face.
> 
> *The wheel keeps coming loose on mine, no matter what I do with the screw. Thus, the cutting edge (well, periphery) can wander a bit, giving inaccuracy. I won't name the maker.



This does not sound right. What gauge do you have? Perhaps the screw can be replaced.

The wheel is not meant to rotate. It is simply a continuous cutter. In use, the section that is in contact with the wood acts like a knife. Hence, a wheel gauge is also a cutting gauge.

Here are a two other wheel gauges: the stainless steel ones on the right were a limited anniversary edition sold by Lee Valley. Absolute bargain at the time (really cheap!) - about 4 or 5 years ago. The variable head may be rotated as needed.

The one on the left I made. It has a wider fence and an ergonomic grip I like ...












Regards from Perth

Derek


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## bugbear (24 Apr 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> ...deeper lines are _also wider_ than shallow lines, which means that accuracy is lost.



(this is a side issue to the main thread, but accuracy is not lost by a wide line if (and only if) the cutter
has one face vertical, and this face defines the line marked. 

BugBear


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Apr 2017)

I agree, BB. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## D_W (24 Apr 2017)

Petey - show us how you're gripping your gauge - the one you're mentioning having trouble with keeping steady on the work. 

I would guess that most people newer to woodworking aren't getting part of their hand past the fence and onto the stem of the gauge for support, or they're focused on keeping the blade in the wood more so than having the fence against it. 

I've got wheel gauges, and maybe had the same trouble early on (can't remember). 

Back to the topic that was mentioned here - laying out mortises with a single knife gauge. I think that's a losing proposition for the reasons mentioned here - a deep knife line will end up being inaccurate, which you can learn to work with, but you don't need to. 

If you're spending money, this is the best marking gauge I've ever used. For mortises or anything else, though I do like a wheel gauge for a fine line. One without micro adjust (the inexpensive veritas version). This gauge is not that expensive if you're into things like Lie Nielsen planes. If you're into making everything yourself and picking up 2 pound car boot planes, then it is *very* expensive. The blades on it are super blue steel and the stems of the irons are stainless. It is so precisely made that everything moves like it's waxed. 

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/ind ... ts_id=2036

An even better idea than the above would be to create a fixed width marking gauge for each mortise chisel you use. Chances are, you'll only use a couple on a regular basis, and having them so that only the fence moves is a pretty handy thing.


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## Bm101 (24 Apr 2017)

Pete, I have that QS gauge. I bought it when I first started getting into woodworking rather than fixing the house and I thought buying tools would help me. (This is not a dig by the way. Buy what you want, it has no effect on me whatsoever) I've learnt as many of us have that they help but they don't alleviate the problem. I have found with the QS one it's all to do with keeping the fence bang up against the timber. It's very easy to roll it away from square if you concentrate on the cutter not the fence. I think it's a great bit of kit but it does take a bit of mastering. Worth noting I have heard quite a few people say they can't get on with this type of gauge. I'd say stick with it personally but I don't know a whole lot so you take your chances. 
You're really pretty close to me. I'm in between Nazeing and Broxbourne. If you know where the boating centre/old lido is I'm near there. You're welcome to borrow my old marples and and an English pattern gauge if you want to try them for a week or so, send me a PM and we'll sort out some details.
Might give you an idea if you need to buy something else or maybe just tweak what you're doing.
To my mind, if you can't get on with the QS wheeled gauge a more expensive wheeled one won't help.

Send me a pm/contact if you're interested fella.







(edit.... started writing this about half ago.... so I've just seen the latest posts...)

Cheers
Chris


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## Paddy Roxburgh (24 Apr 2017)

woodbrains":2sovdsiv said:


> Petey83":2sovdsiv said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I could try making a cutting gauge but i'd not know where to start on a mortise gauge.
> ...



That's a really good idea Mike, one that is so obvious I can't really think why I've never thought of it. I'm going to try and speed through my work tomorrow and make a set of mortise gauges.
Thanks, Paddy


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## G S Haydon (24 Apr 2017)

Hi Petey83

I would recommend the Marples combination marking/mortise gauge. It will serve you well for some time, it's well versatile and good value. I'm aware of many other types and have used some of them but nothing else comes close. I'd like to make some gauges like Pete has at some point. Very nice indeed! Based on your posts I would assume that your experience is not yet developed enough to make a good gauge. Also, save the cedar for something else.

I agree with Derek that should spend as much as you want on what you want. Although Derek referred to some people as "wankers", all they are trying to do is avoid you assuming that spending a lot of cash is a short cut to skills or good outcomes. I'll admit they've been pretty blunt but don't let that put you off.


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## woodbrains (24 Apr 2017)

Paddy Roxburgh":4l4l98ak said:


> That's a really good idea Mike, one that is so obvious I can't really think why I've never thought of it. I'm going to try and speed through my work tomorrow and make a set of mortise gauges.
> Thanks, Paddy



Hello,

Post the outcome here when you do, it will be interesting to see.

I will eventually get around to doing a set, but I have to finish making my Ashley Iles chisel handles first. I have just reshaped a tenon saw handle, have an old Ulmia mitre saw to refurbish and some storage to finish for my bench. The list goes on; which is why sometimes it is best to just buy tools and get on with woodworking! Making or modifying tools can be fun and yields excellent results but a balance needs to be struck between making tools and doing stuff. Buying fine stuff is likely to get one woodworking quickly without having to faff. I have in the past bought cheap and regretted the purchase. It is a good way to educate yourself in what works and what doesn't and why, but it can be a costly exercise. It is funny though, that now i know what to buy and at what quality and what to make, i don't really need any more tools!

Mike.


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## David C (24 Apr 2017)

I have many types of gauge, but generally prefer to use my modified standard Marples gauges. About £4-50.

You can see these working on my you tube channel, "Marking gauge modification". The first two minutes.

best wishes,
David


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## Petey83 (24 Apr 2017)

G S Haydon":34l8tw0y said:


> Hi Petey83
> 
> I would recommend the Marples combination marking/mortise gauge. It will serve you well for some time, it's well versatile and good value. I'm aware of many other types and have used some of them but nothing else comes close. I'd like to make some gauges like Pete has at some point. Very nice indeed! Based on your posts I would assume that your experience is not yet developed enough to make a good gauge. Also, save the cedar for something else.
> 
> I agree with Derek that should spend as much as you want on what you want. Although Derek referred to some people as "wankers", all they are trying to do is avoid you assuming that spending a lot of cash is a short cut to skills or good outcomes. I'll admit they've been pretty blunt but don't let that put you off.



yep not even close to experienced enough to be confident in making a marking gauge. I am planning to have a go ay making a traditional mallet as the cheap one from toolstation I have now is pretty beat up and has a split in it so I am not expecting it to survive my work bench build. I have some smaller offcuts of the cedar and some walnut scraps I pinched off the brother in law this evening so once the bench is done that will be the first tool i have a go at making.

I don't for a minute think spending loads of money will buy me skill but what it does buy me is confidence that the mistake is mine and not the tools. It also allows me more time to make stuff rather than tuning up and restoring tools - after 3 years living in a flat with limited space and time to actually enjoy the hobby I am just excited to have my workshop and a long list of items to make for the house


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## G S Haydon (24 Apr 2017)

Sounds like you've got plenty to keep you busy! At times I feel like a woodworking Sisyphus with the amount on the "to do pile". I'm glad you're investing in some good stuff. If you need to talk to suppliers I'm sure you'll find Peter Sefton and Matthew Platt very helpful too. They are good guys, even though they'll make you part with some hard earned.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (25 Apr 2017)

Petey, when it comes to mortice gauges, pins and knives rule. Wheel gauges can work, but they leave a very light line in end grain. Guages, such as the Veritas dual arm gauge are excellent gauges, but the wheels must be used separately - together they will not make an impression on my local hardwood.

THe Kinshiro I posted earlier is a suberb mortice gauge insofar as it is easy to set up and leaves clear lines. However it has a down side in that the setting cannot be maintained if you want to transfer it to a offset, such as the tenon of a stretcher to a deeper mortice position in a table leg. The gauge that David (DW) posted is better in this regard. Most pin gauges also have the ability to maintain a setting when changing depth. The traditional pin mortice gauge is a decent choice in this area.

My response was to design and build a knife gauge that has the ergonomics I like of a Japanese gauge with the adjustabiliity of the traditional gauge. I chose to make a fixed blade style with blades suited for my 1/4", 5/16", and 3/8" mortice chisels. There is a single gauge with multiple blades that can be dropped in/exchanged as needed.
















The rounded beam enables it to be locked down tightly, and offers excellent visibility ..






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Peter Sefton (25 Apr 2017)

This is an article I wrote a couple of years ago outlining some of the different gauges available.

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... -wwc05.pdf

Cheers Peter


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## bugbear (25 Apr 2017)

I have looked at the various Charles Hayward books I have, and photographed a couple of pages.

Here's "the grip"






Words from the master:






BugBear


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## bugbear (25 Apr 2017)

David C":2gj1kccw said:


> I have many types of gauge, but generally prefer to use my modified standard Marples gauges. About £4-50.


Did you change your mind about the merits of the Stanley 5061, or were you forced to move on because they're no longer made?

BugBear


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## Petey83 (25 Apr 2017)

Peter Sefton":54lkozob said:


> This is an article I wrote a couple of years ago outlining some of the different gauges available.
> 
> http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... -wwc05.pdf
> 
> Cheers Peter



Just ordered one of your Marples mortise gauges Peter.


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## Peter Sefton (25 Apr 2017)

Petey83":lybrdcz6 said:


> Peter Sefton":lybrdcz6 said:
> 
> 
> > This is an article I wrote a couple of years ago outlining some of the different gauges available.
> ...




Great, I hope the article helped you decide, cheers Peter


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## David C (25 Apr 2017)

BugBear,

The 5061 was rather badly made and then ceased.

I Learnt a clever way of avoiding head wobble from Colen Clenton, so was quite happy to clean up and modify Marples cheapest.

I used to insist that my students had 4 gauges. 4 X £4.50 not unreasonable, 4 X £70 or £80 not so reasonable.

Besides the tuning up provided invaluable teaching into every aspect of the tools function.

Best wishes,
David


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## RossJarvis (25 Apr 2017)

As a site chippy I tend to use a combi square and 2" of pencil (if I can find the flipping thing). For accurate work I swop the pencil for a Stanley knife. I'm nowhere near as skilled as those who can do it with just their fingers and a stubby pencil. Admittedly I did borrow someone's Veritas wheel wotsit recently and was impressed. I've never really got along with the pin gauges and can't remember what I did with mine. I think the only issue I found with the Veritas was that it could have done with a greater flat surface to reference against.

I love well made instruments like those shown above and would have one in a shot, but I'm not sure how well they'd do bunged in a box full of furry rusty tools thrown in the back of the van.


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## woodbrains (25 Apr 2017)

bugbear":2b30mntq said:


> David C":2b30mntq said:
> 
> 
> > I have many types of gauge, but generally prefer to use my modified standard Marples gauges. About £4-50.
> ...



Hello,

They were the most sensible design of a simple gauge and i can only think that patents or something stopped copiers after they were ceased by Stanley. They command stupid prices, second hand now, but I think they should be the starting point for home made gauges. 

Mike.


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## ColeyS1 (26 Apr 2017)

The metal wheeled version from Rutlands were incredible value when they were on offer for around £8 each- I bought 3. I looked yesterday and they're now £29 each !
I've also got a sharp edged,unecessarily heavy,clumsy, micro adjusting Axminster offering-my first wheeled version. The Rutlands knocks it's socks off for quality,simplicity,finish and ease/comfort of use. The only thing I had to do was loctite the screws in the end. 
My site kit has a couple marples bootsale jobbies chucked in with the rest of the tools. I filed the pins so they're a little sharper. 
They only have to lock securely and scratch a line, but those Rutlands ones...they so pretty and comfortable :lol: 
I only mainly use marking gauges for hinge marking, but I look forward to using those Rutlands ones. They really are a joy to use !
Coley


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## bugbear (26 Apr 2017)

woodbrains":16g4hoxd said:


> They [Stanley 5016] command stupid prices, second hand now, but I think they should be the starting point for home made gauges.


[Paul] Sellers again? Recommending cheap tools which then become expensive. File under irony!

(musing) Either Sellers has a truly huge number of faithful followers, or the number of second hand
tools on eBay is small enough that a small number of new buyers can substantially alter
the supply/demand relationship.

BugBear


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## Petey83 (26 Apr 2017)

bugbear":1wst2ech said:


> woodbrains":1wst2ech said:
> 
> 
> > They [Stanley 5016] command stupid prices, second hand now, but I think they should be the starting point for home made gauges.
> ...



going off topic slightly but I suspect it is a little bit of both but the main reason is the way ebay works - you can see all sold / complete listings and ebay will even suggest a price automatically based on previous sold listing.

Vintage record vices (especially 52, 52 1/2 and 53's) all seem more expensive than Paul suggests in his videos - Most of the ones listed for sale as I type this probably come from people who have no idea who Paul Sellers but his endorsement to a few who then go out and buy up the available supply at the time would help push prices up which then sets a new ebay suggested price as the benchmark.

***EDIT - I can see only 1 Stanley 5061 for sale on ebay at the moment - not as mint as others that have sold buit a reasonable £3 bid at the moment. I can see others in better condition ave sold for more with one going for £27 plus postage!!


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## Racers (26 Apr 2017)

I used to make 5601 copies, but I found wedge clamping ones easer to make. 
I will post some 5601 photos when I get back to my computer. 

Pete


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## bugbear (26 Apr 2017)

Racers":21pjino6 said:


> I used to make 5601 copies, but I found wedge clamping ones easer to make.
> I will post some 5601 photos when I get back to my computer.
> 
> Pete



Here are your copies:

post273555.html?hilit=%20mine%20a%20copys%20#p273555

BugBear


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