# Shed/Garden store WIP - Comp entry



## CWatters (19 Jun 2008)

Recently submitted a planning application to get this project underway. Planning officer is making a site visit on Tuesday so wish me luck. 

It's an oak framed, tiled roof shed/garden store. Left hand side will house all my mowers and other garden machinery and the right hand will be a potting shed for my wife's use.







Hopefully it will look a bit like this one I found on the web..


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## lurker (19 Jun 2008)

That photo looks very much like Keith Smiths


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## CWatters (3 Jul 2008)

Just heard back from the planning officer. Basically it looks like they are happy provided I agree a few changes mainly to the roof..



> The eaves line of the structure should be lowered by 300mm to reduce the roof ridge and impact of the structure on the character of the area; or reduce the eaves but leave the ridge in the same place which would increase the pitch. In combination with the use of pantiles this is a good option.



I'd proposed plain clay tiles to match the house which we only built recently but for some reason they want me to use pantiles on the shed.


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## Tusses (4 Jul 2008)

what is the over all size and position relative the the main highway ?

do you need planning consent ?


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## skipdiver (4 Jul 2008)

Yeah,i'd like to know that too as it's the only reason why i could see you needing planning.Proximity to highway or house.


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## Chems (4 Jul 2008)

Having watched Grand Designs they had a similar one on that, the guy was ordered to use this type of thatch on his roof, but instead went off and got another type and put that on, because it was all paid for and done planning decided not to say anything about it.


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## Jake (4 Jul 2008)

skipdiver":e1t82tjx said:


> Yeah,i'd like to know that too as it's the only reason why i could see you needing planning.Proximity to highway or house.



Could also be Article 1(5) land - national park, conservation area, AONB, the Broads - or a listed building. In both cases the permitted development rights for ancillary buildings are restricted to <10m3.


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## CWatters (4 Jul 2008)

Yes it's in a conservation area and more than 10 cubic meters. Base is 4m9 x 4m9 including overhang. I'm a bit of a mug to apply for PP as nobody else in the village bothered. One house has about 4 hidden away in the garden and many others are of dubious quality. All built without PP and all made it the four years without challenge. I applied because ours will be visible from a footpath.


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## skipdiver (4 Jul 2008)

Oh yeah,conservation.Never thought of that one.Proably cos there aint nowt worth conserving round here and never came across it in my time as a joiner/bulder.


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## CWatters (7 Jul 2008)

Heard today that the plannng officer is broadly happy with the design so hopefuly we should get our PP soon. They have also agreed plain clay tiles will be ok.


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## dennis (7 Jul 2008)

Colin

Did they make you alter the roof height or have you got it through as the initial overall design.

Dennis


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## CWatters (8 Jul 2008)

Yes they made me drop the roof height at the eaves but that's not a big problem. The roof pitch was a bit low anyway.


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## CWatters (18 Jul 2008)

Got planning permission today... subject to conditions! Before I can start work they want to see drawings showing horizontal and vertical cross sections through the windows! 

It's just a shed!! The whole village is full of sheds and I bet none of them even bothered to get planning permission let alone supply cross sections through the windows! What do they think I'm going to do fit uPVC or something


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## CWatters (22 Sep 2008)

Hired a digger over the weekend and laid the hardcore and formwork for the base. Three cubic meters of concrete arrive tomorrow..


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## CWatters (15 Dec 2008)

PS: It may look crooked but the post and rail fence isn't at 90 degrees to the boarded fence so it couldn't be square to both. Also I probably should have made the hardcore area a bit larger than the slab.


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## MikeG. (15 Dec 2008)

CWatters":2ez8oygt said:


> Also I probably should have made the hardcore area a bit larger than the slab.



Why?


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## shim20 (15 Dec 2008)

cool, look forward to seeing this go up


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## CWatters (15 Dec 2008)

Mike Garnham":3noyo49t said:


> CWatters":3noyo49t said:
> 
> 
> > Also I probably should have made the hardcore area a bit larger than the slab.
> ...



because of the slight slope the hardcore is coming out from under the slab slightly at one end.


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## CWatters (26 Apr 2009)

Have now constructed two brick plynths to keep the front posts off the ground...






The oak beams for the front eaves arrive this week so I started a related thread about working Green Oak.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=31760


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## CWatters (26 Apr 2009)

Have decided to enter the project in the competition. Have put it in the Intermediate class but I've not done anything on this scale before. My wood working tools are pretty much limited to a sliding miter saw (bought for this project), a DIY grade power drill and a router table from Aldi. Currently haven't a clue how I'm going to make the windows. There is also a good chance it won't really be finished by October.


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## CWatters (17 May 2009)

My oak posts and beam have arrived. Went to move a post today and found this on the pile..


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## Digit (17 May 2009)

Very nice picture.

Roy.


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## TheTiddles (17 May 2009)

Oh, I knew I left him somewhere...

Aidan


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## RogerM (18 May 2009)

CWatters":2ck5wcho said:


> Have now constructed two brick plynths to keep the front posts off the ground...



Hey - this is all a bit posh. This is looking like a really interesting project, and one from which I may shamelessly pinch some ideas, in addition to splitting a few infinitives!. Please keep the piccies rolling - great thread.


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## CWatters (18 May 2009)

Was asked elsewhere why the brick plynth is so tall. It's because the ground slopes. The one the other end is only three courses out of the ground. 

There will eventually be a very low wall (more like edging) between the two brick plynths and a small India stone paved area under the overhang.


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## CWatters (25 May 2009)

The pressure treated softwood frame is going up. It's basically a box made from 4 x 4 with 4 x 2 studs. Will have a ply skin to stop racking before being clad. I decided to do half lapped mortice and tenon joints at the top corners (hope thats the right name). Probably shouldn't have bothered but it made it possible for me to assemble it on my own as the bits just slotted together. Photo shows a bottom joint:


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## CWatters (25 May 2009)

The 8 x 6 oak beam for the front eaves had quite a bend in it when delivered. (I believe the technical term is "sprung"). Anyway I decided it would stand being trimmed so the bottom was straight. Problem is my CS only has a 2.5" deep cut and the beam is 6" wide. Had to cut it from both sides and then run a hand saw down the middle to get the middle inch. I can't easily lift this beam which meant using a short saw borrowed from my wife. Finishing up with a hand plane took an hour. The cut might not look square in the photos but it is. Two wedge shaped bits were removed, one from each end. This was the first.


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## TrimTheKing (28 May 2009)

I'm enjoying this Colin, keep up the pics 

Once question though, with such a lovely big beam I would have been tempted to leave the curve in to give it that 'rustic' look. Any reason why you wanted to cut it off, other than aesthetics, or would it have compromised your joinery?


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## CWatters (29 May 2009)

I have quite a lot of oak on my house and it's all "clean cut" rather than "rustic". The beam was actually curved in both planes. I've only straightened what will be the bottom face. The top and other faces will still be curved. Todays photos to follow in a few mins.


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## CWatters (29 May 2009)

Cutting the first mortice. It's 4"x2" and about 5" deep...




Rolling the beam over is a bit of a struggle. Have to keep reminding myself it will hurt if it falls on my toes.




It fits...




PS: No I didn't make the gate.


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## DaveL (30 May 2009)

CWatters":25ifr961 said:


> Rolling the beam over is a bit of a struggle. Have to keep reminding myself it will *hurt* if it falls on my toes.


I think that is a big understatement of the issue. :shock:


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## barbyndave (1 Jun 2009)

Hi Colin,

How jealous am I!!!!!!!!

I Think I will need to re-think my current design... OMG...not again!

Only joking! It looks superb and you are a man after my own heart. I just wish my trouble & strife would see my vision for a workshop like yours.

Love the pics, please keep them coming!

Dave


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## CWatters (2 Jun 2009)

Discovered my first error today. I was originally going to space the studs at 600mm centers but at the last moment changed to 450mm to make it stronger. Now I've come to fix the WBP I've remembered why I was going to use 600mm....

Sheets of WPB are 4ft wide but 4ft is not a multiple of 450mm (4ft is roughly 1200mm). Means to get the joins to line up with a stud I'll need more sheets and possibly have more waste if I can't use the offcuts. 

Boy was it hot today!


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## CWatters (14 Jun 2009)

I've been somewhat at the mercy of the weather for the past two weeks but have made a little progress. 

The bulk of the frame has been completed and noggins added. The outside has been clad in 12mm WBP plywood and battens to space off the membrane installed. I will still need to do the gable ends the same way once the rafters go up.

I ended up screwing both the WPB and battens to the frame to keep the noise down. I tried using nails but the noise produced by the hammering was incredible. The WBP acts like a sounding board. Over 500 screws have been used so far! Later once the membrane has been fixed another lot of battens will be added to form an air gap behind the cladding. 






This photo shows the water pipes that I installed when the slab was laid. One will be for the electric and the other for water probably. I got the position slightly wrong - a bit too far to the outside - but the end result will be fine. They come up in the air gap between the cladding and the WBP. 






Finally holes have been drilled in the oak posts to take the stainless steel locating pins in the brick plynth. See earlier photos.






What I really need now is a favorable 5 day forecast so I can hire a roust-about or similar to lift the big beam into place. I want to try and install it, clean it up and get it painted with Danish Oil before it gets rained on.


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## CWatters (15 Jun 2009)

I went to buy a ridge board today. I believe they are normally around 6" x 1" or 7" x 1.25" but all the timber that sort of size locally was either banana shape or twisted. Decided to make life easier and go for 7" x 2" (actually 175 x 47mm) as they had some that was dead straight. The longest I can get on the car roof is about 4.6 meters and I need something like 6 meters so two bits and a splice it is. Managed to get this far before the rain and hail came down. Luckilly I discovered the tent I'm using as a workshop is just over 4.6 meters on the diagonal


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## CWatters (18 Jun 2009)

Today was the day of the big lift. My wife and I "walked" the big beam about 30 yards across the lawn and used a Genie Lift Advantage from Speedy Hire to lift it into place. It would probably have been slightly easier and safer had we used two (one on each end) but we took our time to get the beam balanced carefully before lifting and there were no problems.

I calculated the weight of the beam at under 200Kg based on the max density of oak and the known volume. It certainly felt heavy moving it across the lawn!. The Genie can lift 400Kg but that reduces to 180kg if the load is near the end of the standard forks so some care required. One minor problem is that the Genie doesn't quite lift straight up so it was a bit tricky to position it. I wasn't about to try moving it with that much weight up in the air.











As soon as the beam was lowered onto the posts some temporary blocks were screwed into place using Timberdrive screws. 

A wall plate (of sorts) will be fixed to the top of the beam so that most of the beam will be exposed. The top of the beam has quite a curve to it so I will probably use short lengths of different thicknesses to level it and make it easier to cut the rafters.






With the oak nice and dry and rain forecast again I was keen to get it sealed so have already got two coats of Danish Oil on it. The first coat is normally diluted with white spirit to help it penetrate but I'm experimenting with using clear wood preserver instead at about 50:50. Subsequent coats on oak elsewhere on my house I've done at about 10:1 (eg 5L of Danish Oil to 0.5L wood preserver). The jury is still out but I'm hopeful this will help stop the mold spores coming back to life. More coats will follow over next few days hopefully.

and then there are the pegs to make.


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## oddsocks (18 Jun 2009)

Colin - first time I've seen this thread and am really impressed with the project and how you are tracking the progress - I have a nagging suspicion ( and she is getting louder) that I need to replace a shed - not as grand as yours but i'm now watching this with great interest to get ideas. 

If you are able, can you give an indication of costs - e.g for the base, the tool hire, timber etc.

Also, did you find out why the planning office wanted those extra drawings?

Dave


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## CWatters (19 Jun 2009)

The extra drawings of the windows and doors are presumably to ensure I didn't put naff uPVC windows and doors with fake leaded lights in it!


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## CWatters (19 Jun 2009)

So far approx costs work out as follows. I've included VAT and Delivery. 

Base

Digger, dumper, wacker plate and skip hire - £350
Hardcore, sand, DPM - £150
Concrete - £350
Formwork timber and sundaries (eg SS studs to fix frame down) - £50

Brick Pillars

Concrete included above.
Bricks, cut plynth bricks, lime mortar, tools, lead - £130

Frame

Frame, stud work, WBP plywood, rafters, joists, ridge beam, tile and wall battens - £875
Screws, nails, builders metalwork - £45
VP400 Permeable Membrane (1.5 x 50m) - £97

Oak

6000 x 200 x 150 structural oak beam 
2000 x 150 x 150 structural oak posts (2) - Total £ 245
Genie lift hire - £88
Rustins 5L Danish oil - £40

*Total to date £2420*

Still to come

Oak cladding and fixings
Oak for windows and doors, glass
Roof tiles
Roof membrane
Guttering
India stone paving


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## CWatters (19 Jun 2009)

CWatters":vmto7p1w said:


> A wall plate (of sorts) will be fixed to the top of the beam so that most of the beam will be exposed. The top of the beam has quite a curve to it so I will probably use short lengths of different thicknesses to level it and make it easier to cut the rafters.



Proposed section something like...


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## MikeG. (19 Jun 2009)

Pity!

I was hoping we might see sprockets on this job...........but expected exposed rafter feet at the least. Boxed eaves wont really set this oak beam off as nicely as something a bit more traditional.

Go on Colin!! Stop your rafters on the top of the beam, and sit oak sprockets on that. You'll not regret it!

Mike


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## MickCheese (20 Jun 2009)

What are sprockets?

I am guessing it has something to do with exposing the rafter ends?

Mick


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## MikeG. (20 Jun 2009)

Mick,

this is a sprocket:









Not only do you get the traditional exposed rafter feet, but you also get that beautiful "kick" to the lower part of the roof......another thing that makes old buildings look attractive without you really knowing why.

Come on Colin, you know that this is what you really want to do!!!

Mike


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## TrimTheKing (20 Jun 2009)

So how do they work Mike?

Is it just a tapered length that is fixed along the lower part of the rafter? Then the tile battens fixed to the sprocket?


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## MikeG. (20 Jun 2009)

Exactly that, Mark. Think of them as normal exposed rafter feet.

You also have to consider what you will see if you look up into the eaves. It isn't nice to see Tyvek, or similar, so there are normally a few boards laid along the tops of the sprockets so that you see timber when you look up, but if you were thatching it can be quite nice to see the underside of thatch. Same with plain tiles.

Mike


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## CWatters (20 Jun 2009)

Mike Garnham":y0vv5a18 said:


> Come on Colin, you know that this is what you really want to do!!!
> Mike



Aghhh it's torture knowing it could look much better.  

The drawing was mainly to work out how much of the beam would be exposed with a certain thickness of wall plate and depth of gutter. I hadn't really decided if the rafters were going to be exposed or boxed...but I totally hadn't considered sprockets at all. We have a mix of boxed and exposed (fascia board only) on our house so none of the options would look out of place. Decisions! Decisions!

My wife wants to catch the rainwater for her vegtables and I was planning on using copper guttering to match the house. Do you think it would it look odd if I had sprockets on the front but a plain pitch with exposed rafter ends and guttering on the back? 

The other thing I'm worried about is the lawn. It's clay soil and discharging the water from the front onto that might not be a good idea..but then again there is a gentle slope so it wouldn't lay in puddles.

Then there is the roof pitch which is currently about 35 degrees - the minimium for plain clay tiles. It's an exposed location with the wind blowing on the front left corner. I'll have to work out what the pitch of the front would be reduced to if there were sockets. I guess I could put a few layers of waterproof membrane under the front edge incase water blew under the tiles.

And lastly the finish. I'm trying to keep the oak looking new/honey colour by using Danish oil. Can I face having to paint the sockets every year as well as all the other oak we have to do on the house  The planners want me to stain the oak cladding a dark colour so might not be able to let it all silver nicely.

I'll have a think.


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## MikeG. (20 Jun 2009)

Colin,

Firstly, you can still have gutters with sprockets. You just use the brackets that fix to the side of rafters......they look great. 

Secondly, I wouldn't worry about the pitch reducing for the last half dozen courses of tiles.......If you wer really worried you could tighten up the coursing by an inch or so, but this is all overhang anyway. 

You sprockets would be entirely sheltered, and are out of the sun. They probably wouldn't even need an oil finish. Mine have been up for 7 or 8 years, no finish whatsoever, and are still the same colour as when they went up.

The sprockets, of course, would expose more of your beam to view without the need for a further plate. 

I wouldn't hesitate...........sprockets at the front, orthodox exposed feet to the rear. Copper gutters to both will look magic!

Mike

PS Sprockets are traditionally quite broad. I would say at least 3 inches in your case, but even 4........and the shape I drew is very standard. On a posh job you wouold chamfer the lower edges.

If I ever see a boxed eave on this building..........you're not far away from me.........I might have to visit one dark night and re-arrange the offending detail!


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## GreenBoy (23 Jun 2009)

> Mine have been up for 7 or 8 years, no finish whatsoever, and are still the same colour as when they went up.



How about a picture mike?


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## Escudo (29 Jun 2009)

Great progress Colin. Looking very good. Just a couple of questions;

How thick did you make your concrete base? and did you put any steel in it? Are the row of bricks round the base just sitting on top of the base?

How high is the timber frame work and what height will the building be when completed?

Sorry to ask so many questions. 

Cheers, Tony.


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## CWatters (3 Jul 2009)

Escudo":3ppufj3g said:


> Great progress Colin. Looking very good. Just a couple of questions;
> 
> How thick did you make your concrete base? .



I went for around 150mm compacted hardcore with 150mm concrete containing fibre reinforcement. No steel but perhaps should have put some in. 



> Are the row of bricks round the base just sitting on top of the base?.



Mortared onto the base with a DPC on top. Two courses or more are normally recommendsd but my slab is slightly above ground level so I figure I'll get away with it.

I inserted 9 stainless steel "bolts" made from threaded rod, washers and nuts into the wet concrete so the walls are bolted down to the slab. Anyone doing similar MUST put something over the ends of the exposed bolts ... the consequences of tripping over and falling onto them doesn't bare thinking about. 



> How high is the timber frame work and what height will the building be when completed? .



The wall plate is around 6'8" and the ridge around 13'. One of the tricky things to get right has been the height of the eaves. I had hoped that the building could be used for a horse by some future owner but the planners had me reduce the height of the eaves so they are probably too low for anything but a small breed. I think lowering the eaves was probably the right thing to do as the ground rises up slightly in that area so it looks taller than it is. 

If you want a lower height buiding put the doors on the gable ends then the eaves can be lower.


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## CWatters (4 Jul 2009)

After much thought I decided to go for exposed rafter ends rather than sprockets. Just decided I had enough work to do! I've still got two windows and two doors to make this summer and no idea how I'm going to do those yet. I’ve never made anything like that before either.

Been very hot here the last few days but have pegged the oak beams and have the roof well underway. Quite pleased with progress considering I'm working on my own.

A wall plate was added to the top of the oak beam. The beam has a curve to it in two directions so the wall plate was cut to match and provide a level and straight surface for the rafters to sit on. This avoided the need to cut each rafter to suit it’s station. 

The ridge beam was positioned using temporary props fixed to the gable ends with timberdrive screws and some string used to align it parallel with the eaves.


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## Escudo (4 Jul 2009)

Thanks Colin, very formative. 

Keep up the good work. Cheers, Tony.


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## EddieJ (7 Jul 2009)

Colin, just a quick suggestion for you. You mention that you are on an exposed site, so with this in mind, it may be prudent to give the roof an over hang on the gable ends of say 150mm. The only problem as I see to do this, is that you have cut the rear eaves plate flush with the side walls. The front is fine, as you have the oak extending past, but I'm not sure how you could easily achieve it with the rear.
I'm sure that you have it well under control, but don't forget to add bracing of some sort to the front posts, or failing that, horizontally across from the upper side of your front beam and attached to one that extends forward from the main frame. Both will add stability and strength to the structure.  

As an aside, I really love the architecture of your house, and would love to sometime see some photos of the brickwork on the window detail. It looks as though alot of thought went into the design 

Finally, if you need a photo of to eplain what I meant about the gable overhang just say.


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## CWatters (9 Jul 2009)

EddieJ":3c5azil5 said:


> Colin, just a quick suggestion for you. You mention that you are on an exposed site, so with this in mind, it may be prudent to give the roof an over hang on the gable ends of say 150mm.


Yes I'm planing to do something like that. I've been waiting for the tiles to arrive so I can lay out a row of tiles and ridge tiles to work out the best size for the overhang. 


> The only problem as I see to do this, is that you have cut the rear eaves plate flush with the side walls. The front is fine, as you have the oak extending past, but I'm not sure how you could easily achieve it with the rear.


I'm hoping that it will be sufficient to mount the fascia rafter onto the gable rafter with spacer blocks including one at the rear. I thought about building a conventional gable ladder but decided the overhang wasn't going to be big enough to warrant that. Was planning on something like..

Gable rafter
60mm blocks
44-47mm fascia rafter
50-60 mm tile overhang with slate undercloak
Total overhang around 150mm

Could probably increase that a bit.


> I'm sure that you have it well under control, but don't forget to add bracing of some sort to the front posts, or failing that, horizontally across from the upper side of your front beam and attached to one that extends forward from the main frame. Both will add stability and strength to the structure.



Yes bracing underway. I thought a lot about adding wind braces to the front and they were in my original Google sketchup model .. but that would mean the large door has to open inwards wasting a lot of space. Since last photo I've added the 4 diagonals to the roof under the rafters. I'm also extending the front wall upwards to a purlin. There will also be some diagonals on the under side of the overhang and possibly a WBP ply ceiling there as well. I daren't let it blow down as the prevailing wind would mean a ton of tiles land on my wifes vegtables.



> As an aside, I really love the architecture of your house, and would love to sometime see some photos of the brickwork on the window detail. It looks as though alot of thought went into the design


Thanks. We had an architect design it. We lived in Belgium for 7 years and saw a lot of good brickwork over there. Decided we wanted some on our own place. Our architect did a great job but it went quite a bit over budget. Will try and post some photos.


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## outcycling (23 Jul 2009)

Hey Colin, great thread, some usefull stuff for my impending workshop 

I notice you pinned the oak together with dowels. Presuming they are oak pins, where did you get them ? Did you order them with the oak or make them yourself ? 

I think I am going to have planning issues with the workshop height as well as wanted to keep with clay tiles. Got the planning officer around tomorrow to talk through the house changes so will sound him out on the garage/workshop roof.

Russ


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## CWatters (15 Aug 2009)

Gosh has it really that long since I visited my own thread? Been away on holiday but no excuse.

outcycling - yes I made them. Not hard. I had some 1" square offcuts from another project. Just kept planing the corners off until they were more or less round. The "towel" them with sand paper. Not the traditional way to make them but I don't have a spokeshave and a shaving horse. Helps if you start with long bits of wood so you have enough hold on to. Cut them to length after bashing them in.


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## CWatters (15 Aug 2009)

Weather has been a right pain over the summer. No sooner was I up the ladder with a big sheet of ply wood but the wind blew and the rain came down. Very dissapointed at slow progress. Since last update the roof structure hae been completed (diagonal braces added) and the rest of the ply cladding done. The outside was then battened with 2" x 1" treated battens and covered with a breathable membrane. Currently I'm adding another layer of battens for the weather boarding. These are being attached with 100mm Turbo Ultra Stainless steel screws right through into the stud work. They are more expensive than coated steel but I'm finding the bigger heads a lot easier to drive in than coated steel screws. I reckon I'll have used over 2000 screws and nails but the time I'm finished.

First photo shows view up through "loft" ladder opening showing diagonal roof braces screwed to underside of rafters..


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