# Rustins Plastic Coating straight from the horses mouth



## Goldeneagle32

After trying this product and having problems, I noticed a lot of other people having similar problems, ie pitting, uneven surface etc.
I took the liberty of contact the rustins help line and as it happened I was put through to the gentleman that helped to formulated the product who gave me the following advice:
1. ONLY use the directions for the mixing formula (4 parts coating to 1 part activator, and health and safety advice)
2. Leave each coat as long as possiable bbefore rubbing down and applying the next coat, he recommended 3 ~ 4 hours, the reason for this is that the surface will harden very quickly however the underneath will remain soluable for approx 2 hour and can be reactivated by another coat but the surface will not. Thus leading to wrinkling, or a pitted finish.
3. Inital rubbing down should be done using 600 grit wet and dry followed by 0000 wire wool to apply a key for the next coat, only start to progress to a finer grit when you are ready to apply the final coat.
4. Try to avoid using it on a product that has been assembled using PVA or water based glue, as the coating can sometimes react against the pva glue and cause you problems later on. He said the best glue to use is Polymite (formally known as Cascimite) or any resin based gue.
5. He also stated that the critic phase is NOT reasched untill at least two days after the final coat and that he had used the product over the space of a week on the same projects a number of times and NEVER reached the critic phase.
When I told him that this is NOT what the instructions for use say he said< quote _"I don't know who wrote them but they are incorrect"_
After following his instructions I have obtained a finish that I have never achieved before and I will certainly continue to use this product as per his instructions.
When I have compleated the project which is and exam piece for the city and guilds deploma in cabinet making I shall post a few pictures so you can see the finish I have been able to obtain.


----------



## the_g_ster

Thanks for sharing.

Good luck for exam piece.


----------



## Jamesc

I used the flooring product on oak floors throughout a very large house. I can't remember the details now but we went on the advice given at a trade show, by the sounds of it the same man. Apart from the fumes when applying it I have tosay it has been brilliant. We lad the floors over 20 years ago and it is still going strong.

James


----------



## MRob

Hi,

I have been researching Rustins Plastic Coat and found the above info helpful, so thought I would create an account with this forum and post what infor I have gathered myself. Perhaps it will be useful for others. I have been having e-mail contact with a fellow called Peter from Rustins, I dont know if he is the one who formulated Plastic Coat but he has been very helpful and very prompt in his replies. 


Q: ..whether it will bond well to epoxy? E.g. making burr goblets, holes would need to be epoxy filled, also I am interested in impregnating the wood more deeply with epoxy/acetone mixes, priod to application of plastic coat. However, would the bond be strong enough under these circumstances? Or is it best to apply straight to the unfinished wood?
A: Plastic Coating should not be applied over any other type of finish. Epoxy resin is however one of the few exceptions but because there are a wide range of Epoxy Polymers available we would highly recommend a test for adhesion

Q: I am guessing the plastic coat cannot be thinned down to a much higher degree and then used to impregnate the wood? With epoxy, the acetone evaporates off and then the epoxy reacts, is possible to do a similar thing with plastic coat?
A: Yes reaction similar with the PC. Thin to max 50% with Plastic Coating Thinners after adding the hardener. Will start to react once the thinners have evaporated.

Q: ..wondering if pc can be used as an adhesive ... would it have a comparable bond strength to epoxy? 
A: It does not really work as an adhesive though it can be mixed with saw dust and used as a wood filler such as with our Plastic Floor Coating. There is no comparison to be made with Epoxy in terms of bond strength.


Happy finishing...


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I'm sure it's being called "plastic" does Rustins no favours. It's a great hard wearing finish - I did a couple of bar counters with it about 25yrs ago, and they are only now getting tatty. The only problem I had was slight "orange peeling", which I found out long after was caused by putting on too many coats in too short a time.


----------



## MRob

Additional:

Mix ratio by weight is:
Plastic Coating 38.2gms
Plastic Coating Hardener 8.28 gms

This calculates down to a ratio of 2.17 : 10


----------



## Mike Wingate

Has anyone used the Thinned down (oil coat) mix over a stain?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Yes.


----------



## Mike Wingate

Was the Plastic coating over the stain compatible? If so, what was the type of stain, water/spirit based?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Sorry, I couldn't resist that answer. I believe it was spirit based, but it was a long time ago. I recall that it was a Rustin' s brand one and that it lifted quite badly on the first coat, but it didn't affect the finished colour at all. It's probably worth sticking to products by the same manufacturer.


----------



## Setch

I've finished several guitars using Rustins PC, and got outstanding results. IMO the finish is far more compatible than the instructions would have you believe, I've had good results mixing it with alcohol based dyes to create timed lacquer, and applied over water based strains too.


----------



## Mike Wingate

Many thanks. My use is for staining guitar bodies and headstocks. I find the Thinned Down PC excellent. 3 coats in a day, leave for 7-10 days then flatten and buff.


----------



## Rhossydd

Another footnote to add to the Plastic Coating options is the ability to colour it.

PC used to be available as both a clear and white product. In recent years the white option was dropped due to lack of popularity.
When I needed some a couple of years ago I spoke to Rustins and they suggested using powdered pure pigment in clear PC. Not the easiest thing to get hold of, but a really good artist supplier should be able to help. For white I used Titanium dioxide (Titanium white) and got it from Cornelissen* who were very helpful.
I'm guessing that other inert pigments will work in a similar fashion.
It takes a degree of trial and error to work out the correct amount to add and it needs thorough and careful mixing to avoid both lumps and creating air bubbles. However the final results were pretty good and worth the effort. I don't know of a more durable DIY finish.

*www.cornelissen.com
An amazing old shop in central London off Tottenham court road, well worth a visit if you're anywhere near.


----------



## mccreadie

Hi There

Hope someone can offer some help!
I have a question regarding the Rustins Plastic Coating product....

Stupidly, I have managed to get some rather powerful oven cleaner on my worktop which has either taken off the plastic or its left a white residue which I cannot remove. I have tried hot soapy water to remove it unsuccessfully. I was wondering if anyone would recommend using the Rustins Plastic Coating product to either take the mark off or to disguise it somehow? I don't want to make it worse either! I am so annoyed with myself! Its a rented property so I need to fix it somehow!!

Thanks for your reply  !


----------



## Jamesc

Can you upload a photo so we can have a look, it is hard to gauge what to do without seeing it


----------



## Grahamshed

the_g_ster":13vy0zh0 said:


> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Good luck for exam piece.


+1


----------



## carlb40

mccreadie":2doak39g said:


> Hi There
> 
> Hope someone can offer some help!
> I have a question regarding the Rustins Plastic Coating product....
> 
> Stupidly, I have managed to get some rather powerful oven cleaner on my worktop which has either taken off the plastic or its left a white residue which I cannot remove. I have tried hot soapy water to remove it unsuccessfully. I was wondering if anyone would recommend using the Rustins Plastic Coating product to either take the mark off or to disguise it somehow? I don't want to make it worse either! I am so annoyed with myself! Its a rented property so I need to fix it somehow!!
> 
> Thanks for your reply  !


When you say worktop - do you mean the chipboard / laminate type or real wood? If it is the former i doubt it can be repaired easily.


----------



## ph2014

Thanks for the comments here. I found them very useful. I have used "Plastic Coating" many times on many types of furniture but had not used it for about ten years so wanted to check the best methods. I agree that the instructions that Goldeneagle32 describes have served me very well. I have left anything from 3 and 10 hours between coats and applied 4 coats to a kitchen table in a room heated to about 20 degrees C and achieved a very good finish. I use 600 to 1000 grit wet and dry and/or 0000+ grade wire wool between coats to flatten any minor blemishes and give a key to the next coat. I only once had a problem when I was in a hurry and tried to sand the finish after about 2 hours. It seemed to be hard but turned out to be soft beneath the surface and the wet & dry paper tore the surface. More haste less speed! I have never had any problem with the surface becoming wrinkled so can assume that the surface has never reached the "critical" stage in the up to 2 days that I have spent coating and re-coating an item.
As an aside, I invariably finish the item by leaving the final coat for several days and then cutting back the surface with 0000+ wire wool and wax. This gives a pleasant soft sheen and a very durable surface.
Regards
Patrick


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Welcome. You're welcome.


----------



## Jas diy

Hi I got oak wood worktops a year ago and the kitchen fitters oiled them! Which after a year looks horrid there is a chemical barn from oven cleaner which I can't get off!. My sister has just had wood worktops fitted and they used rustins plastic coating and hers look fab! My question is if a sand back my worktops could I still use this product?
Thanks Jasmine


----------



## Rhossydd

Jas diy":2aodyfho said:


> Hi I got oak wood worktops a year ago and the kitchen fitters oiled them! Which after a year looks horrid there is a chemical barn from oven cleaner which I can't get off!.


That might have gone quite deeply into the wood, so will be difficult to remove.


> My question is if a sand back my worktops could I still use this product?


Difficult to give much help I'm afraid. The answer will depend on what oil was used on the worktops and how well it penetrated them.
Rustins say that the surface to be covered should be "free from wax, dust and contaminant", so oil would be a problem. If you could sand deeply enough to get beyond any oil penetration, you might get away with it, but it wouldn't be an easy job. It would probably involve having to remove hobs, sinks etc. maybe having to take off a mm or two to get back to clean fresh timber, not just a quick rub with sandpaper.
So I don't think it's a practical proposition, sorry.


----------



## rafezetter

Sorry to necro an old post, but I am about to use this product and there's a couple of extra bits of info I would like if possible:

(I have read the other threads)

I should state I've used glass fibre epoxy resin, and casting resin many many times, but this may be fundamentally different enough to warrant the below questions:

- What's the "average" working time once mixed @ late teens temp?
- instructions state shouldn't be used below 18deg c - is that a hard and fast rule or is there a bit of leeway?
- how well does it flow out?
- The items I'm using it on have 10mm below face level floating panels with vertical sides (instead of graduated beading), should I be especially vigilant for runs?
- Does thinning it significantly have any adverse effects?
- can I use the blowlamp trick to clear any bubbles?

any or all replies to the above gratefully received


----------



## Phil Pascoe

It'll keep for a few days so long as it's kept reasonably cool, a spash of thinners helps. It flows perfectly well, thinning doesn't affect it noticeably. You should recoat it in the stated time or wait until it's bone dry. You don't really need to sand between coats to key it anyway, although if you are attempting a high polish you would flatten between coats anyway. If I try that high a finish I would leave it until hard and wet and dry it. I've never noticed any bubbles, so can't answer that one.
It is thin enough that you shouldn't find runs a problem - if you do get any, they're probably best left to dry then wet and dry'd off.


----------



## rafezetter

Thanks for that phil - I've actually edited my post a bit since you answered, but one thing I'd like cleared is when exactly is "bone dry" as information differs.

I'm not going for a high shine - too plastic looking imo, customer and I agree satin would be better, but I do quite like a reasonable facsimile of a "flatted" finish regardless of matt or high gloss so in your experience how long do you think I should wait to flat it out - or does it flat out well enough on it's own? - to the point where raking sunlight through a window won't make me wish I'd flatted it.

For the satin effect should I go through the grits or would 600 / 0000 wool and something like autosol do the trick? (if you have experience of it)


----------



## Phil Pascoe

If you use W&D and there is the slightest drag, it's not fully cured. It should be just like polishing a perspex or a cast resin. Left for a couple of days in warm weather should be OK. What grits? Suck it and see. If you over polish you've only to take it back again or put another coat on. Rustins do sell a burnishing cream, but that's meant for high glosses - and you can get very high gloss with it. You could try Autosol or Brasso, but even these might be too fine. If you've a good finish a bit of wax and wire wool might suffice - it's difficult stuff to screw up.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

One more point - a no no - do not put on more than about three coats in 24hrs. It traps solvent under the hardening finish and orange peels. You might get away with one more, but for the hassle it causes it's not worth it.


----------



## flanajb

I have been applying it over the last 4 days to a wooden sink worktop. It stinks and you'll need a good vapor cartridge on your face mask.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

For many years I did a large dance floor with a 15" roller annually ... I was always glad to get out of the room afterwards. #-o


----------



## custard

rafezetter":1auowdok said:


> For the satin effect should I go through the grits or would 600 / 0000 wool and something like autosol do the trick? (if you have experience of it)



MicroMesh might be worth considering, it's not cheap but a small sheet lasts for ages provided you clean it out properly. The advantage is the control and consistency that it provides. Use 320 grit wet and dry then start with Micromesh at 1500 or 1800 and work up through the grits, you're getting matt at about 3200, satin at about 4000, satin/gloss at about 6000, and a brilliant mirror gloss at 12000. Stopping at any stage would deliver any level of matt or satin you want, and you can hit that target again and again over a large surface or on different pieces with great uniformity and accuracy. As always, test first on some scrap.

Just a thought.


----------



## Jake

I used it on our t&g kitchen ceiling for durability reasons, the finish off a spray gun was like some super-glossy italian speedboat - not really my style. Knocked it back to 320 or 240 (can't remember) and machine polished some wax on - result was a nice satiny-gloss finish since further improved by many smokey griddles/stir-


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I can't help feeling that while "Plastic Coating" might have been upmarket and trendy when Ronald Rustin formulated the stuff it could do with re branding now - I'm sure the name puts people off what is a very good product.


----------



## rafezetter

OK well I put on the first coat yesterday, 18.3deg ambient, and tried to apply a second coat 3 hours later to one of the doors, - orange peel - I thought maybe I should have stuck religiously to the 2 hr window, so left the other 4 doors and left alone. 

This morning after flatting off the orange peel and giving the rest a rub down with wire wool, gave them all a good clean with white spirit and left for over an hour.

Just applied a second coat freshly mixed (with about 20% of yesterdays left in the jar) which is 26 hrs after and .... orange peel, on all of them. 24deg ambient

Could this have anything to do with it being thinned to roughly 10%, and it's too hot even though the "official" info says up to 50%? ratio is 4:1 using a measuring cup, I was fastidious about that.

Really I'd like to give it at least another coat but no idea if I should apply as normal, ignore the orange peel then flat off after, or wait another 24hrs at least and see what happens.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I can't help you on that. I've used it on all sorts of different things at all times of the year in all temperatures, and the only orange peel effect is when I've put down five or six coats in 24 hours - and then the effect is in the first coats, so irreparable. It's caused by the solvents not being able to escape, and thus a different problem to yours. What material are you coating?


----------



## custard

Plastic Coating is funny old stuff. The only times I see it is at completely opposite ends of the woodworking spectrum. 

It's either on a £10k+ piece of furniture at the Cheltenham Festival of Craftsmanship, micromeshed to a dazzlingly flawless mirror gloss. Or it's been trowelled onto the bar top of a dog rough pub in Toxteth, and left to cure any which way it wants.

I guess this thread explains why it doesn't get much of a "middle market" following!


----------



## rafezetter

"and then the effect is in the first coats, so irreparable"

Are you saying if I get orange peel on the first coats I should cut back to bare wood and start again?

I'm putting it on 20 yr old Ash wood kitchen doors, that has a limed grain filler effect of water based paint and talc mixed, with sections that have been ebonised.

The first coat went on no problem, smooth and glassy - no reaction visible to the emulsion based liming which had had 4 days or more to fully cure off from the last door to be treated, longer for the rest.

The rustins I applied with a foam dishwashing pad, wiped on not too thick, almost as a wiping poly would be.

One thing I did notice this morning compared to yesteday was the wet edge was setting up very quickly, within a minute or two, so as I did the four sides (it has a central panel) following the grain the ends had to be saturated then wiped again to get them to blend. (more thinner required maybe?)

Phil what would be your course of action - brush a thicker second coat and flat after that or should I leave these again for a couple of days before flatting and trying again? The flatting is quite quick tbh with 1200 and as the effect wanted is satin cutting back the gloss is required anyway.

I've just checked and a side panel that I gave a first coat to this morning alongside the doors is smooth and glassy, no orange peel, using the same mix as the doors which orange peeled. Side panel treated exactly the same way, and cleaned with white spirit and left for an hour before coating.


----------



## rafezetter

custard":2w2glag0 said:


> Plastic Coating is funny old stuff. The only times I see it is at completely opposite ends of the woodworking spectrum.
> 
> It's either on a £10k+ piece of furniture at the Cheltenham Festival of Craftsmanship, micromeshed to a dazzlingly flawless mirror gloss. Or it's been trowelled onto the bar top of a dog rough pub in Toxteth, and left to cure any which way it wants.
> 
> I guess this thread explains why it doesn't get much of a "middle market" following!



You mean because it's not quite as foolproof to use as might be beleived? I'm really puzzled as to how I've gotten the orange peel this morning after 26 hrs and the ambient outside hasn't been too bad these last 2 nights, and being outside it's been well ventilated, so it can't be "dead air" syndrome as I call it.


----------



## custard

rafezetter":3v6dq2q3 said:


> You mean because it's not quite as foolproof to use as might be beleived?



Because you either sink an awful lot of hours into it and get a unique and pretty special finish, or you apply it faster and get something that's bomb proof but looks pretty nasty. There doesn't seem to be a third option.


----------



## Setch

I love Rustins PC, but it can be a temperamental product, especially if you get into the more complicated areas like tinting it, sunbursting or spraying masked areas then then topcoating.

Here's a couple of examples of the fancier finishes I've done with it, masked and scraped bindings, then clear coats over the top to level before buffing to a nice gloss.


----------



## rafezetter

I've emailed rustins about this for advice, it'll be interesting to see if they respond.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I meant the orange peel is under the surface - but doesn't appear until it's too late. It's an effect rather than a true orange peel which is a dimpling. Six or seven coats in 24 hours in hot weather and you're there. I would think what you have is a surface problem? I would dispense with the pad and use a decent brush - if you have trouble with a dry edge (just like a run) don't try to fix it while anything like wet - leave it to dry thoroughly or you'll end up with a mess.


----------



## rafezetter

Hmm thanks for that Phil - I left it alone, but I'm going to sand back, and recoat tomorrow. I'm obviously not sanding it all back so I am adding layers albeit much slower. If I use a brush and apply thicker this will help.

as an addendum this is the reply from rustins; I told them the doors were from a kitchen which had been previously been coated, but which I had gone to some lengths to remove.

_Hi

This product is extremely sensitive to contaminants such as cleaning chemicals, wax polishes, food stuffs, oils etc. If these for any reason enter the timber the strong solvents in the PC will dissolve them out and will probably not affect the first coat but the second. We have seen the second OK and orange peel on the third. The addition of the thinners is not the cause but helps dissolving out the contaminants into the coating. The only remedy is to sanding back into the timber heavily and then reapply 3 coats to one of the problem areas. The alternative is to use Rustins Quick Dry Clear Varnish (acrylic based). Avoid waxes, pledge and spray cleaners on coatings. Clean with warm water and mild detergent.


Technical Services

Rustins Ltd_


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Interesting. I was wondering whether there was something in/on the wood.


----------



## chrisatlake

Hi, I've decided to try Rustins Plastic Coating for my latest guitar build. I have read everything I can find about the product and finally applied the first coat. The temperature was approximately 18 degrees and I waited for 2 hours and applied a second coat. The first coat was dry to the touch but felt draggy (new word  ) I left the second coat to dry approximately 12 hours and the finish still felt dry but draggy. Is this to be expected for this type of finish?

I wet sanded the finish to remove brush marks and other imperfections. The paper loaded with plastic-like baubles which brushed easily off of the sandpaper. Is this expected too? I have left the sanded finish a further 24 hours before I apply a third coat. I am becoming more concerned that I am not doing something right.

I mixed 4 parts finish and 1 part hardener, stirred thoroughly but didn't want to introduce too many bubbles in the mix.


----------



## chrisatlake

Not sure if you can see the finish issues or not


----------



## memzey

I'm afraid I can't help you with the finish but that's a damn fine looking guitar!


----------



## chrisatlake

memzey":291swg67 said:


> I'm afraid I can't help you with the finish but that's a damn fine looking guitar!



Thank you.


----------



## Gooselaz

I have given my worktop a few coats with rustins plastic coating, correct mix. Light sanding with1200 wet and dry using a small amount of white spirit. It still always seems patchy and I can see run marks. What should I do?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

A few coats - how quickly did you put them on?


----------



## Gabby198

Hi I have used Rustin's on my oak worktop but my dad said to leave for at least 3 days before running down me applying another coat. Is this correct? The instructions say to apply another coat after one hour and a few of you on here had mentioned hours between coats but not days. Have I messed up? Will I be able to apply another coat even if it's started after? Any help welcome as I'm completely new to renovating and decorating!


----------



## Phil Pascoe

You can sand when touch dry as you are only really de nibbing. You can put several coats on without sanding if you're in a perfectly clean area with no airborne dust (and your prep is 100%), but if you need to sand seriously (like if you're flattening it for a french polish like shine) you're better leaving it til it's bone dry after a few days or it's likely to drag a bit. You might find wet and dry better than anything else, specially if there's any softness left in it.


----------



## Bobby0234

Hi,

I have been reading this and similar posts with great interest but I still have a couple of questions if there is someone that could possibly help. 
I have just fitted a new kitchen and my wife decided on oak worktops. Now I’ve fitted many kitchen but never got involved with a solid wood worktop. 

So after a fair bit of research and advice I’ve decided to use Rustins Plasric coating. But alas I can’t seem to find much in depth info from when starting from naked worktop. 
The tops are cut to size, joints are already to go. 
So my first question is do I need to coat all side of the worktop like it suggests when using danish oil? 
Or do I fix the worktops together, sand joints etc then coat whilst in situ? 
I’m guessing that I should leave out sink and hob so these can be fitted after treatment. 

Any info would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.


----------



## gasman

Not sure thats a good solution for a kitchen top. Surely kitchen tops get a far bit of misuse? Knives, things getting dropped on to them etc - we'll mine do anyway. Rustins plastic coating is tough - stain water spirit resistant etc but it will scratch easily with something sharp. This would ruin your beautiful flat surface imho. I would have thought hardwaxoil or similar would be better and easier to touch up once there is damage. Just my opinion
Cheers Mark


----------



## gasman

But whatever you do the sides etc all need protection from water oil etc


----------

