# People of a certain age.....



## RobertMP (9 Feb 2007)

Went to my first woodworking show today and I came away feeling my age (nearly 52) !

Wonder if it is compulsory to be this age if you want to do woodwork as a hobby? There was grey hair everywhere. Suppose there might have been a few youngsters around the 40 mark but most were around my age or older. 

I stopped working about a year ago and bought myself a Skoda Octavia estate car. I'd already noticed most other people driving similar cars were greys 

Still I had a good time at the show and enjoyed watching the demonstrations and learnt quite a lot.

Think I'll just have to accept it and continue blending in


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## andys wood shed (9 Feb 2007)

AH but its friday

most of us youngsters were at work :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## houtslager (9 Feb 2007)

and some of us are ex pats ! :wink:


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## sliver (9 Feb 2007)

And some of us are exactly the same age as you. :shock: 

cheers, sliver. :lol:


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## RogerM (9 Feb 2007)

.... and some of us are older still!


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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2007)

....and some of us use names that break the trade description act (just)


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## RobertMP (9 Feb 2007)

andys wood shed":2fmlc5tl said:


> AH but its friday
> 
> most of us youngsters were at work :lol: :lol: :lol:



I'll need some convincing that that is the only reason


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## RobertMP (9 Feb 2007)

senior":2l53cx4z said:


> ....and some of us use names that break the trade description act (just)



That is some avatar you have there


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## andys wood shed (9 Feb 2007)

On a serious note its the same in engineering (mechanical) there are very few young people coming into the profession. which is a shame really.

Andy


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## RogerM (9 Feb 2007)

andys wood shed":816mmvdy said:


> On a serious note its the same in engineering (mechanical) there are very few young people coming into the profession. which is a shame really.
> 
> Andy



.. but if you were working for Google or Ebay you would look out of place if you were over 30! Sign of the changing times.


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## mr (9 Feb 2007)

RobertMP":29e07iic said:


> Suppose there might have been a few youngsters around the 40 mark but most were around my age or older.
> 
> I stopped working about a year ago and bought myself a Skoda Octavia estate car.



Hurrah I'm a youngster. 

Double hurrah I only have to work for another ten years.


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## RobertMP (9 Feb 2007)

mr":24k6yza3 said:


> Double hurrah I only have to work for another ten years.



I'll take that as humour rather than a dig 

I worked 12+ hour week days and Saturday mornings for 25 years building up a business so I've probably done enough hours to see me to state retirement age on a 40 hour week basis.

If the Chinese had not started making the same products as us I'd still be doing it and 30 people would still have jobs. We had modern CNC manufacturing (commercial lighting products - sheet metal, paint assembly etc.) but our customers started buying finished goods for less than our raw material cost so the decision was made for us.

Hmm must stop going off at tangents...sign of age maybe


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## mr (9 Feb 2007)

RobertMP":24hth5or said:


> I'll take that as humour rather than a dig



Certainly was intended that way (humour) if not hopeful thinking on ,my part. 

When my financial advisor chap first came round and asked me what age I wanted to retire at I, told him 40. I suspect Im going to miss that, but I'll settle for 50. Probably wont make it but I've spent the last 16/17 years averaging 15 hour days 7 days a week, at least up until this last year or so. My record was a 72 hour day, (on site the hours don't mean much in my line) I'm looking forward to "putting my feet up" while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. (no offence inteded to anyone there either). 

Cheers Mike


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## RogerS (10 Feb 2007)

Curious how different decades have fared. 

Those in their 70's and above probably fared OK ... endowment terminal payments well up to scratch, pensions intact. 

Those in their '60s, starting to look dodgy. 

Those in their 50's...well...endowments shot to hell, pension funds up the creek, unemployable on anything like a decent salary (for many of us)...maybe that's why you see so many of us at woodworking shows...noses pressed up against the shopwindow :wink: 

Wonder how the '40s are going to fare?


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

The industry / hobby is full of old f**ts who aren't prepared to move with the times.

Just take a look at this forum, if there's more than 10% of people under 30 i'll be amazed.

Probably 70-80% over 50, if anything is done or said which is deemed to be slightly risky its locked or banned. However discussions on how to sharpen a chisel are allowed to go on for days, ney weeks. the same point being said over and over and over and over and over, when most sane people just want to cut their wrists. Good grief, I have aged just reading some of these posts.

Oh, where's my avatar gone. Never mind, i'll get me flat cap on, conform and post an exciting picture of a chisel


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## Lord Nibbo (10 Feb 2007)

senior":547ea7kh said:


> Never mind, i'll get me flat cap on, conform and post an exciting picture of a chisel


 A nice piccy of a plane might go down better! :lol:

PS.... I'm 59 in a few weeks time. Am I classed as young? or what?


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

I think Senior's a bit upset that his hilarious avator has been banned.

I agree with him totally that this forum needs livening up a bit with more of this kind of irreverence and humour. It's not necessarily about age, though. I know old men in their thirties and pensioners who are about 20 at heart.

What I can't stand is boring.

And talking about chisel sharpening is BORING!

Cheers
Brad

Incidentally Senior is one of the most accomplished woodworkers on these forums. His involvement here should be highly valued.


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Lord Nibbo":2fq2zap7 said:


> senior":2fq2zap7 said:
> 
> 
> > Never mind, i'll get me flat cap on, conform and post an exciting picture of a chisel
> ...



How about a fat bloke in his underpants holding a plane. :lol:


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Oh dear...

I've just re-read my last post.

I'm going to have to award myself the OBN!

Cheers
Brad


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## Argee (10 Feb 2007)

senior":3ux6ybfj said:


> The industry / hobby is full of old f**ts who aren't prepared to move with the times.


If you want to see proof of this in its most rampant form, visit any woodturning club! 



senior":3ux6ybfj said:


> Just take a look at this forum, if there's more than 10% of people under 30 i'll be amazed.


Experience generally comes with age, hence those with more experience - and therefore more likely to post - will be older, won't they? No stats can be available for the average age of learning lurkers, though.



senior":3ux6ybfj said:


> Probably 70-80% over 50, if anything is done or said which is deemed to be slightly risky its locked or banned. However discussions on how to sharpen a chisel are allowed to go on for days, ney weeks. the same point being said over and over and over and over and over, when most sane people just want to cut their wrists. Good grief, I have aged just reading some of these posts.


I agree that some posts are tiringly repetitive, mostly caused by not reading the previous replies before committing a post to the thread - I've never seen the point of "me too" posts anyway. But surely you've *also *seen other fora where the lack of rules means that members spend loads of time sniping and generally being rude to each other. I can get that anywhere! At least civility is the norm here and I'm all for that. It doesn't stop exchange, just encourages decent behaviour - pity other forum mods don't follow the example.



senior":3ux6ybfj said:


> Oh, where's my avatar gone. Never mind, i'll get me flat cap on, conform and post an exciting picture of a chisel


I'm not sure that I would have banned your last avatar, but I must add that I wasn't sure where the humour was within it. The higher the number of moderators, the less chance of consistency, I suppose.

Ray (62 in September)


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## Adam (10 Feb 2007)

Just a general note really, seen as Brad and Senior brought it up. In principle, the moderators would be happy to let all topics through. However people seem unable to have a civilised discussion when they have differring opinions. So don't be so quick to blame us. If you read far enough back into the history of the forum you'll find that people take extreme insult to differing opinions when they are written in front of them, and the forum quickly digenerates to a mud slinging match. I think if you were at the pub, or chatting to a mate, you'd pick up much more on their expressions, like that they were saying something tongue in cheek, or they were just winding you up - but on a forum - all people see is the written word and its a lot easier to take offense. This makes it a nightmare for moderating. Based on those experiences, over time, rules were added to keep it running smoothly. If you want lots of "excitement" and free for all discussions, and don't want to discuss chisel sharpening they are a range of political and religous forums available. This is after all a woodwork forum, and thats what we chosen to stick to. Like any forum/magazine, you have a turnover of members, and so questions inevitably get asked again and again. I trust that helps explain why we try to keep religously on-topic.

Finally, its a family forum, which anyone any age would be comforable visiting, so that why we are fairly strict on everything. 

Adam


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Fair enough Adam,

I suppose that what I am trying to say is that if you've got something to say on sharpening your chisel, make it interesting, and if possible entertaining.

Now there's a challenge! :lol: 

Cheers
Brad


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## RobertMP (10 Feb 2007)

I've used a few forums over the years and I'd say they live or die not only by having active member contributions but also by the moderating.

If the moderating can be seen to be fair and reasonable people are not put out by it.

I've not been here long enough to form much opinion yet but the few incidents I have seen lead me to think the balance is not quite right. There is probably more to what I have seen than I am aware of so I'll make no specific comments.

The forum has proved a valuable source of knowledge and ideas for me so I'm planning on staying around for a while yet 

My recent work background is computer design and programming machine tools having started with hand tools and moved up. When I eventually stop fitting out my workshop and actually set about making something I'd rather use machines than hand skills as that is the way I have thought for years. So I don't read too many chisel and plane threads


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## Lord Nibbo (10 Feb 2007)

senior":2ev3itum said:


> How about a fat bloke in his underpants holding a plane. :lol:



An avatar like that it could be mistaken for anyone of us on this here forum :lol: 

So Brad suggested sharpening chisels is boring, I think it's drill bits that do boring! :lol:


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## PowerTool (10 Feb 2007)

Back to the age thing - I'm 42 and been going grey since I was 18 :shock: (it's hereditary,not stress :lol: )
Just over two years ago,I decided to build a workshop and get a lathe,as I'm divorced,my daughter (now 23) had moved to Newcastle,and thought my son (now 16) would start going out more,and wanting to spend less time with his dear old dad.
So I did,and three months later,he moved in with me and is still here :lol: 

Therefore,I think hobby woodworking is going to be primarily people who have passed the family-raising stage in life.

Andrew


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## yellow_lamborghini_2406 (10 Feb 2007)

i'm 18 now and i started doing woodwork as a hobby when i was about 13 and i'v had a part time job at making rabbit and dog houses and things like that for about 2 years so am i the youngest member :lol:


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## Slim (10 Feb 2007)

Why don't we do a poll, to see what the average age is.

BTW i'm 25.


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## Scrums (10 Feb 2007)

How refreshing to hear Brad & Senior's comments....some things I've been dying to comment on, but didn't have the bottle to.

I think the poll is quite a good idea - if just to satisfy curiosity.

I'm 55 by the way, or 54?....can't quite remember....

Chris.


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## DomValente (10 Feb 2007)

Yes, occasionally the forum does get boring, simple answer, stay away for a few days and on your return will find new subjects.

This is a woodworking forum, not a forum for woodworkers so we're here to help each other on woodworking subjects.

If you want to be more controversial there are forums that provide for this or go down the pub. 

It is my opinion that the largest percentage of people here join in because of the politeness and gentility of the majority.

If you don't want to discuss sharpening etc, and there are many youngsters coming on line who need to know, stay on the of topic section.

Dom


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## andycktm (10 Feb 2007)

I don't know about the age thing,but the forum seem's to be dying!  .I look on here nearly every day as i have done for about 6 months and the post's seem to be getting less and less.The threads just go on for about 4 post's and thats it.A lot of names that used to be regular's i don't see to much now.I'm 44 by the way  . and this is my hobby of about 15 months.


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## Scrit (10 Feb 2007)

Brad Naylor":1bbkdfhc said:


> Incidentally Senior is one of the most accomplished woodworkers on these forums. His involvement here should be highly valued.


I think that definitely qualifies you for the OBN with bar and dangly bits, too :roll: 

I think this forum is an interesting phenomenon because it has survived - certainly another place many of us came from died in part because of the vitriolic nature of one or two individuals such as "BaNa". It's the lack of flaming here makes it a refreshing place to post and whilst I'm not always on the side of the Mods I appreciate the job they do in holding the forum together (I suppose _that_ rates me for OBN, 2nd class....... :roll: )

Senior, I think the age thing is just part of life in general. Most of the experienced tradesmen in the joinery trades I know of are in the forty plus bracket and decry the lack of new blood coming into the business. The lads they take on don't seem to stick too long, either. Pity is that there aren't many of them that are interested enough to stick it out - as perhaps your own experiences may have shown you?

Incidentally the term "old f*rt" can be just as offensive and derogatory as "c**n" to some people. Ageism, racism and sexism are all alike in my mind - that's not being PC, either, just even handed.

Scrit


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Scrit":1yyfd23n said:


> Brad Naylor":1yyfd23n said:
> 
> 
> > Incidentally Senior is one of the most accomplished woodworkers on these forums. His involvement here should be highly valued.
> ...



Can't argue there mate!

That's why I immediately awarded it to myself 



Brad Naylor":1yyfd23n said:


> Oh dear...
> 
> I've just re-read my last post.
> 
> ...


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## Gill (10 Feb 2007)

A lot of woodworking forums go quiet when the weather is cold. It seems that hobbyists don't go into their cold workshops and therefore don't have much on the woodworking front to discuss.

Forums seem to go through phases, too. When the conversations are bright and positive, they attract more people who want to share in the fun. When the conversations are full of criticisms and dreariness, people look elsewhere for their fun. The less we moan, complain, criticise and snipe, the more welcoming the forum will be and it will encourage greater participation. I don't think age has much to do with the level of activity - I think what contributors bring to a discussion is much more important.

This forum will always be what its members make of it, so next time you're going to knock the government, the forum, Norm Abram, hoodies, or whatever is sticking in your craw, ask yourself what the nature of your post will tell other people about you.

Gill


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## Alf (10 Feb 2007)

Cor blimey, this has turned into a right old navel gazer, hasn't it? Talk to me about boring repetition after you've been skulling about on woodworking fora on a daily basis with the same old faces for six years! :lol: Simple - you no likee, you no readee. You want something better? You makee with the interesting posts, chop chop. Forums like this are what you make them. Yes, I roll my eyes at the umpteenth and one post asking how to sharpen a chisel (and behold, there's another one even now), but I can choose to ignore it and not answer - which I confess I find I do more often these days. Or if I'm feeling more inclined to spend the time I could go into a long and detailed post on all aspects. Or do the sensible thing in the middle of these extremes and provide a few links. Either way, I'll keep an eye on it on the off-chance I might learn something. It's quite hard to be totally bored if you keep your eyes, and mind, open...

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Alf":23kymted said:


> Cor blimey, this has turned into a right old navel gazer, hasn't it? Talk to me about boring repetition after you've been skulling about on woodworking fora on a daily basis with the same old faces for six years! :lol: Simple - you no likee, you no readee. You want something better? You makee with the interesting posts, chop chop. Forums like this are what you make them. Yes, I roll my eyes at the umpteenth and one post asking how to sharpen a chisel (and behold, there's another one even now), but I can choose to ignore it and not answer - which I confess I find I do more often these days. Or if I'm feeling more inclined to spend the time I could go into a long and detailed post on all aspects. Or do the sensible thing in the middle of these extremes and provide a few links. Either way, I'll keep an eye on it on the off-chance I might learn something. It's quite hard to be totally bored if you keep your eyes, and mind, open...
> 
> Cheers, Alf



an excellent point Alf, only the other day I was reading a post on chisel sharpening, and I....zzzz.....zzzz.....zzzzz.....zzzzzz


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2007)

Gill":1bx30gq5 said:


> A lot of woodworking forums go quiet when the weather is cold. It seems that hobbyists don't go into their cold workshops and therefore don't have much on the woodworking front to discuss.
> Gill



Meanwhile the pros cower in their nice warm offices pretending to prepare cutting lists while playing on their computers rather than brave the cold of the shop!


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## MikeW (10 Feb 2007)

Hi Robert,

Around here, even with the lack of in-school training [having mostly been phased out beginning in about 1980 or so], there are many people of all ages woodworking.

Even at most of the woodowrking shows which come to town, there's a mix of ages represented. Still, I would say the majority are over 30 at the shows.

Why? I think there are could be many reasons. Money is one of them. There is a heavy emphasis on needing the most expensive widgets to do woodworking--or nearly any hobby. Pity. People over 30 or 40 tend to be a bit more established, more financially stable. It is these people who are heavily marketed.

As for the younger woodworkers, I think school emphasis on sports in place of a more rounded education which includes vocational, or manual training: machine shop, auto, woodworking, pottery, glasswork and many of the arts is mainly to blame. I had the benefit of all those into my 12th year of public school. I see this lack of exposure as largely to blame. In my classes, emphasis was always on restoring tools, using grandfather's tools, that sort of thing. Learning to use what one had instead of "needing" new widgets. That emphasis largely negates the lack of money thing above. In the least it provides balance.

Well, I need more coffee and open the shop up for the day.

Take care, Mike


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## DaveH (10 Feb 2007)

I am 25 and only got into woodworking about 1 and a half years ago before that I was a complete computer geek (still am :roll: ).


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## Shultzy (10 Feb 2007)

I think one of the aims of this forum should be to pass on the wealth of knowledge that member have to anybody who cares to listen. Remember before the net the only way to get this info would have been through books or becoming an apprentice. Where else but here can a member keep asking until he/she understands. If sharpening get too boring a topic maybe it should be put in the "How-To" section along with any thing else that's relevant.


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## mailee (10 Feb 2007)

I still think of myself as a youngster even at 51 but I am reminded of my age from time to time when parts of me ache that never used to.  When I was younger I used to sit in front of the TV cross legged, I can still do this although I just can't get up afterwards! :shock:


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## Anonymous (11 Feb 2007)

I've had a bit of a reflect on this age thing.

It seems to me that most blokes in their twenties and thirties don't really have 'hobbies' as such. Instead they are either sporty, playing football, rugby, going climbing, fishing etc, or they spend their free time getting wasted and trying to get laid. 

Then some lass gets her claws into him, he gets hitched, becomes a dad, and works 80 hours a week keeping the baillifs at bay.

It's really not suprising then, that the majority of hobbyists on this or any other forum tend to be middle-aged or above.

As far as career woodworking is concerned, I am actually quite encouraged by the numer of young guys I see on sites doing joinery apprecticeships. I have received 3 calls this week from students at our local college doing a furniture making course pleading with me for a placement. Ther's nothing I can do at the moment but I would hope that in a year's time I would be in a position to give one an opportunity.

There is a common belief that there is no long term future in woodworking as a career as our society becomes ever more reliant on cheap Chinese imports. 

I disagree. If you try to compete head on then you will lose. However, by shifting slightly towards fitted and bespoke work you can become 'China-proof'. Most cabinet companies are doing this and while the economy reamains relatively bouyant (!) there will be a constant need for young people to be entering the trade.

In my experience, in my area, there is certainly no shortage of enthusiastic youngsters wanting to make this their career. I find this encouraging.

End of ramble

Cheers
Brad


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## Losos (11 Feb 2007)

Adam,

Someone critisced the 'me too' approach when posting, well this is definately a 100% 'Me too' post   

I support every word you wrote,  I am also registered on a few other forums (There's a doggy one, and one for expats in CZ) and frankly I want to scream at some of the postings on there.

I did notice on one that there was a facilty to "ignore" posts by people who are annoying, I've not seen it on UKW - I am completely happy with all the posters on UKW but if people think some 'threads' and some 'posts' are boring they could put them on the 'ignore' list.........if it was available. Just a thought.


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## Amateurrestorer (13 Feb 2007)

Right ,first of all it's chromium blonde and not grey and second when I was in my 20's and 30's I had more interesting hobbies ( girls ,sport and drinking) it's only now that I can afford to buy expensive tools ,ignore the wife for weeks and spend my time at a computer. I am a PE teacher, I am 53 years old and make Brian Glover of Kes fame look like a spotty youth.My legs have gone,my eyes have gone and my sense of humour is starting to go. I could quite happily spend my life creating sawdust and quit the teaching game. As one of the kids was saying last week " Sir, I hear you might have to work until your seventy under this government" to which I replied " I will smell a bit because I will have been dead ten years teaching a shower like you lot ". Obviously this was a group of year 11 ( 16 year olds) and not the nice 95% of children that make this job one of the best in the world. Grump over I feel somewhat better.


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## gardenshed (13 Feb 2007)

Amateurrestorer":iybxwrqc said:


> Right ,first of all it's chromium blonde and not grey and second when I was in my 20's and 30's I had more interesting hobbies ( girls ,sport and drinking) .



For me it was sex, drugs & rock "n" roll, not in any particular order


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## Lord Nibbo (13 Feb 2007)

gardenshed":jpyah7h5 said:


> Amateurrestorer":jpyah7h5 said:
> 
> 
> > Right ,first of all it's chromium blonde and not grey and second when I was in my 20's and 30's I had more interesting hobbies ( girls ,sport and drinking) .
> ...


 
after reading the last few posts it's interesting to note that people of our age all had similar interests ie. Sex rock'n'roll, sex, drugs, sex, sport, sex, booze, sex, girls, sex, more girls etc etc. :lol: 

It's plain to see most, I repeat most but not all of the current under 20's are only interested in nicking cars, smashing up other peoples property and spraying graffiti over anything that doesn't move, or do I portray the wrong image?


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## RogerS (13 Feb 2007)

Amateurrestorer":fpj2fa8a said:


> spend my time at a computer. I am a PE teacher,.



Sign of the times, eh? :wink:


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