# Record or Stanley Plane?



## ossieosborne (16 Nov 2011)

Hi all

As I can't afford a P/T, I might be able to stretch my finances to buy a larger hand plane. I have a No 4 1/2 and a No 5 (both Record and from the 70's era). I am obviously thinking of a No 6 or 7, but which one? Availability / price may be the deciding factor when I take the plunge (on flea bay probably).

I want an older plane for the quality of materials used. Definately can't afford LN, Clifton, Quansheng, etc.

Question:

Is there much difference in quality between the Record and the Stanley models of Bailey planes from, say, 30 years ago? :? 

Thanks

Oz


----------



## Jacob (16 Nov 2011)

Not a lot, but the general opinion is that Record has the edge. 
Record 5 1/2 jack is the best all rounder IMHO and worth trading in your 4 1/2 for. 
Never had a 6. Have a 7 but it's just for the odd job where you need the length.


----------



## Chrispy (16 Nov 2011)

I've both record and stanly of that kind of era and have never thought of one being any better or worse than the other. I would probabley go for which ever came my way.


----------



## LuptonM (17 Nov 2011)

I would go with an old one in good/mint condition. I don't think the older ones are any significant amount better than the newer ones unless you get a stanley in good condition pre 1918. But then still Quansheng will trump that, despite the minor cosmetic flaws that comes with them (eg small defect in wooden handle)

However I think you should get a Quansheng no 6. Stanley Baileys and their Record counter parts are much over rated, and the old ones will have some niggles due to abuse and age


----------



## Fromey (17 Nov 2011)

Keep your eye on this site (if you aren't already);

http://www.oldtools.co.uk/

Also, keep in mind that the older the tool, the more likely you'll need to fettle it and the longer the sole, the more difficult that fettling will be.


----------



## AndyT (17 Nov 2011)

Or indeed this site - http://www.oldschooltools.co.uk/ - whose postage-inclusive prices seem a bit more reasonable to me. Other tool dealers are available!


----------



## Alf (17 Nov 2011)

ossieosborne":1rfvutm0 said:


> Is there much difference in quality between the Record and the Stanley models of Bailey planes from, say, 30 years ago? :?


Opinion seems to be that Record kept up their quality of product a little longer than Stanley so, for that era of plane, I'd say Record. But worth going for something a little older than that, which will be better still. All usual caveats inherent in buying s/h planes (especially sight unseen) still apply, of course.



Fromey":1rfvutm0 said:


> Keep your eye on this site (if you aren't already);


Like Andy, they always strike me as one of the pricier options, but I suppose the convenience of their website set up is worth the premium. Certainly you get better info on what you're buying than a lot of the others. But for a pretty common plane purchase like this, I think there's a lot to be said for ringing round a few of the usual suspects and seeing what they have suitable for a user.


----------



## Fromey (17 Nov 2011)

Wow! Some excellent tool dealers I was completely unaware of. Bookmarked! Thanks AndyT and Alf.


----------



## condeesteso (17 Nov 2011)

Great question! A touchy subject but the consensus above says Record, and I +1. It's right to warn against buying unseen (ebay) but I have to say I have bought maybe 15 planes off ebay and had just one wrong-un... and I fixed that anyway. One of the best is on-topic!! - got a record No6 SS for about £35 a while ago. A true blinder. I like the SS (2 piece cap-iron, very stiff and solid). So personally I would hunt on ebay, odds are heavily in your favour you will get a bargain and it will be good.
I have to declare an illogical preference I have - I never buy UK Stanleys, and I will always go for an early U.S. Stanley over a Record. But I can't rationally say why. Record is a great choice, I am sure. I am also sure that technically, the SS construction is very good indeed - find one and try one!!


----------



## ossieosborne (17 Nov 2011)

Some very interesting and useful links posted. Cheers.

LuptonM – A Quansheng No 6 you say, at about 130 notes? It’ll take me ages to save up my pocket money for that! Looks like a nice bit of kit though. Still, Christmas is coming (sorry for the “C” word) and SWMBO might take pity on me – she’s still in full time employment (I’m a kept man).

I guess I’d better be patient and see what turns up. 


Thanks to all of you for replying to my 1st “New Topic”. =D> 

Oz


----------



## Vann (18 Nov 2011)

condeesteso":1i7hrujv said:


> I have to declare an illogical preference I have - I never buy UK Stanleys, and I will always go for an early U.S. Stanley over a Record. But I can't rationally say why.


I know what you mean. I can't say I've never bought a UK Stanley, but I hate the ribbed frogs on the UK Stanleys and later (post ~1959) Records.

On the other hand I'm not keen on the super early USA Stanleys either. Pre-frog adjusting screw, small depth adjusting wheel are not for me.

And I agree about the two-piece cap irons - 'though some don't - (where are you woodbloke? (hammer) ).

Cheers, Vann.


----------



## condeesteso (19 Nov 2011)

Yes Vann - the oldest Stanley I have is pre frog-adjuster, small screw etc. I love it, but I could never sell the whole idea to anyone with any conviction. Some hand tools are just weird emotive things. Then there are others that work brilliantly but you wouldn't marry 'em.


----------



## No skills (19 Nov 2011)

Both makes of #7 tend to go for similar money on ebay (assuming similar age/condition), been hunting one for a little while but had to give up till next year. You take a chance on buying with out seeing but the couple of planes I've brought have been good for the money.


----------



## condeesteso (19 Nov 2011)

Did you see this one Oz... may go a bit heady price-wise, but looks a cracker (the japanning looks excellent, a good sign), U.S. Stanley 7:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANLEY-BAILE ... 500wt_1352

I am watching it and may have a go, so let's not outbit each other!. If I got it I'll have a really good Record SS No6 on offer at a very sensible price... that any good?


----------



## Jacob (20 Nov 2011)

condeesteso":37tlo1ad said:


> ....the japanning looks excellent, a good sign......


Not really. If a plane has been good, and well used, it may look really scruffy. Clean and shiny old tools may well have had a recent makeover which will have no bearing on the quality.
I say this because I bought an identical no7 on ebay which looked a wreck and went quite cheap (£30 ish can't remember) but proved to be spot on. Still looks a wreck though. At the same time I sold a relatively clean british Stanley 7 (with a less than perfect sole, unusable in fact) for slightly more. I hope it was bought by a keen tool fettler - most of them are! 8 hours or so on wet n dry was all it needed. I couldn't be bothered myself.


----------



## calum Griffiths (20 Nov 2011)

in my opinion, stanley are better, after buying a vintage record off ebay it was ok, but got a great deal on a pre war Stanley number 7 joiner with a mushroom handle with bedrock and there was no comparison in quality. if you are willing to put in the time to do some restoration of the plane, you can end up with a plane that will perform just as good as a high end product such as a lie Nielsen


----------



## Tom K (20 Nov 2011)

condeesteso":5f8ef1ah said:


> Did you see this one Oz... may go a bit heady price-wise, but looks a cracker (the japanning looks excellent, a good sign), U.S. Stanley 7:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANLEY-BAILE ... 500wt_1352
> 
> I am watching it and may have a go, so let's not outbit each other!. If I got it I'll have a really good Record SS No6 on offer at a very sensible price... that any good?



Did you look at all the photos Doug its not that old and looks repainted to me. Not talking it down for any nefarious reason I'm quite happy with my 7c SW


----------



## condeesteso (20 Nov 2011)

Agreed now, maybe repainted. But it looks 30's to me?? Blade good etc. Anyway gone now, 58 quid plus a tenner shipping. Could do better I think.


----------



## ossieosborne (20 Nov 2011)

Douglas

No, I hadn't seen it. But it's gone now as you say. There'll be another one (or dozen) along soon.

Some of them go for silly money and other's are a bargain. I still don't see why people start bidding 6 days before the auction is finished. Oh well. :? 

I might well be interested in your No 6 if you strike lucky before me.

Thanks to all the other posters.

Oz


----------



## Tom K (20 Nov 2011)

condeesteso":3jml23rr said:


> Agreed now, maybe repainted. But it looks 30's to me?? Blade good etc. Anyway gone now, 58 quid plus a tenner shipping. Could do better I think.



No it had a late frog (outline type) and comma lever cap looked circa 1970 to me and done over on a wire wheel and aerosol spray job. Unless its a bitsa.


----------



## Jacob (20 Nov 2011)

And it had a "good" blade i.e. little used, which could mean it's never been beaten into submission by frequent use. A worn blade is a good sign - a lot of use means usable.


----------



## bugbear (21 Nov 2011)

Jacob":3ceo7mhj said:


> And it had a "good" blade i.e. little used, which could mean it's never been beaten into submission by frequent use. A worn blade is a good sign - a lot of use means usable.



I don't think it's indicative either way.

A long blade could mean unusable, *or* it could simply be unused (effectively NOS).

A worn-out blade could mean wonderfully handy, *or* it could mean the whole tool is totally used up and shagged.

The only clear fact is that a totally worn out blade will need replacing, which will cost money.

BugBear


----------

