# Has the forum been hacked ?



## RogerS (1 Feb 2018)

Somethings gone wrong with the layout. It's hideous. Unreadable. Tried two browsers but both show the same.


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## HappyHacker (1 Feb 2018)

Totally different layout but appears to be readable to me. To soon to say if it worse or better for me as i have only just seen the new layout.


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## Tasky (1 Feb 2018)

RogerS":3fsb87gt said:


> Somethings gone wrong with the layout. It's hideous. Unreadable. Tried two browsers but both show the same.


Yep, it's the Russians taking advantage of vulnerable Intel CPUs. All your data has been stolen and you now live in Englandigrad. 

It could be worse - They looked at _my_ data and threw it back in disgust!!


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## RogerS (1 Feb 2018)

It's unusable. They have gone down the two-year old approach to web design that everyone seems to be going for these days. Each page has 95% white space, great gaps between the lines. Dreadful font.

Please guys go back to the old layout. This new one is one of the worst that I've seen.


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

RogerS":lbx2m4zp said:


> It's unusable. They have gone down the two-year old approach to web design that everyone seems to be going for these days. Each page has 95% white space, great gaps between the lines. Dreadful font.
> 
> Please guys go back to the old layout. This new one is one of the worst that I've seen.



Well, it clearly isn't "unusable" as you are obviously able to continue your rant.

Also I'm no psychology expert but I am pretty sure that the way NOT to convince people to your point of view is to be patronising, over use hyperbole and accuse the people who have clearly spent time and effort to make improvements of being akin to "two year olds"


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## RogerS (1 Feb 2018)

Brandlin":s6l0qhcs said:


> RogerS":s6l0qhcs said:
> 
> 
> > It's unusable. They have gone down the two-year old approach to web design that everyone seems to be going for these days. Each page has 95% white space, great gaps between the lines. Dreadful font.
> ...



Don't be so bloody patronising.


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

RogerS":1ps7s8yf said:


> Brandlin":1ps7s8yf said:
> 
> 
> > RogerS":1ps7s8yf said:
> ...



Not pleasant is it? (hammer)


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## [email protected] (1 Feb 2018)

happens to lots of forums unfortunately. Probably in 3mths if you persevere you'll wonder what all the fuss was about  My own theory is that its all about the sponsors. If as a forum owner you are trying to flog advertising space you need to show a "modern and impressive looking" platform and the last version I dont think was that sadly! 

PS I hate it as well


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## Lons (1 Feb 2018)

That's a definite NO from me as well. I don't like it at all.

What was wrong with the old one?


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## powertools (1 Feb 2018)

I normally look at the forum on my phone and this is a massive improvement.


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## stuartpaul (1 Feb 2018)

I wonder if the mods are running a book on who does the most whinging about the change?   

I think it's wonderful 8)


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## Geoff_S (1 Feb 2018)

Unfortunately, this is the most exciting thing that has happened to me today :| 

It's different, it works, it's just fine.


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## tomatwark (1 Feb 2018)

The background colour is too light but it is not bad a side from that


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## monkeybiter (1 Feb 2018)

Not keen either. The visual format makes a thread look more like a loose collection of comments as opposed to a connected stream of thoughts. 
I find the layout counter-intuitive.


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## Geoff_S (1 Feb 2018)

Ooh! I’ve just spotted the dislike button. Is that a wise move?

Let’s try it.

MARMITE!!


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## Racers (1 Feb 2018)

It did surprise me I opened the hand tool section and it changed before my eyes.

I guess we will get used to it but its big shock.

Did the mods know? 


Pete


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## Blockplane (1 Feb 2018)

Can't say I'm keen on the new look. On the other hand , we have a fabulous resource here free of charge, so shouldn't complain if the powers that be manage to find something that keeps the costs down.


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## Blockplane (1 Feb 2018)

quick ps to my previous - there doesn't seem to be an 'edit' button in this new format, that IS a loss to those of us with dodgy spelling.


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

Blockplane":2vcim0yc said:


> quick ps to my previous - there doesn't seem to be an 'edit' button in this new format, that IS a loss to those of us with dodgy spelling.


Click the button that looks like a cog with a downwards arrow next to it.


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

Racers":h4hh7g39 said:


> Did the mods know?



Pretty sure they did....


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## Bluekingfisher (1 Feb 2018)

My tuppenth worth, this new layout is awful.


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

Bluekingfisher":29fqoatq said:


> My tuppenth worth, this new layout is awful.


'Full of awe'?


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## flying haggis (1 Feb 2018)

Why do so many forums go down the "it aint broke, so we better fix it " route

Sorry but I dont like the "improvements"


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

Why do so many people go down the "I dislike things that change" route?


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Feb 2018)

flying haggis":2qczlsav said:


> Why do so many forums go down the "it aint broke, so we better fix it " route
> 
> Sorry but I dont like the "improvements"



Schlimmbesserung.


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## davem62 (1 Feb 2018)

I find it quite bitty to read ,prefer the old style,
David


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## JWLeaper (1 Feb 2018)

Been away for a day or three, came back and, OMG. Fewer lines on each page therefore a lot more scrolling needed (iPad user). Not my cup of tea but it’s not my train set either, I have to take whatever you give me.


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## Ttrees (1 Feb 2018)

Too many pop ups and now less accessible, as I have to scroll to the top to select a category. 
How much percentage wise, of a gain is there, to have this new format in place?

To the computer folks
Is there a way to stretch the screen so I dont have to look at these pop ups?
(i know I can disable them, but that takes away the point, if the site needs funds)

I dont think this is a wise move 

Does the search function exist, not talkin about the google search bar but the real search function?

Obviously, there's less of a chance of getting a float function like with sawmill creek since the owner wants 
revenue from every click and this would be counter productive 

There must be a better way of doing things.
I have been turning on and off adblocker like a woman changing outfits for a big nite.
Addblock engaged till I find out if you can hide these pop ups on a windows 10.
Tom


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## NickN (1 Feb 2018)

On a mobile phone this new forum looks fantastic and works well with new sub-forum and menu icons, but on my laptop PC which is what I most commonly use to access this site, it is fairly horrible with drunken letters instead of icons and enormous margins of wasted space with a narrow content view in the centre.

So very much a case of mixed feelings from me for now.


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## Rhossydd (1 Feb 2018)

A dreadful upgrade that wastes far too much screen space on a normal computer display.
So many issues it's difficult to know where to begin.


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## monkeybiter (1 Feb 2018)

If we're stuck with this layout [and I'm not bothered by any of the adverts] is there any chance of a little more user info in the top left of each post, I like to know where the poster is from and possibly how long they've been a member, it adds context to what they've posted. 
Having to search for that info every time would mean that it won't happen, seems like a definitive case of dumbing down.


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## rxh (1 Feb 2018)

I don't like it and I don't understand how to include photos with a post.


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## CHJ (1 Feb 2018)

monkeybiter":1703mu4e said:


> If we're stuck with this layout [and I'm not bothered by any of the adverts] is there any chance of a little more user info in the top left of each post, I like to know where the poster is from and possibly how long they've been a member, it adds context to what they've posted.
> Having to search for that info every time would mean that it won't happen, seems like a definitive case of dumbing down.


Click the member Icon or member Name.


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## CHJ (1 Feb 2018)

rxh":18qfwr58 said:


> I don't understand how to include photos with a post.


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## monkeybiter (1 Feb 2018)

CHJ":2iare4li said:


> monkeybiter":2iare4li said:
> 
> 
> > If we're stuck with this layout [and I'm not bothered by any of the adverts] is there any chance of a little more user info in the top left of each post, I like to know where the poster is from and possibly how long they've been a member, it adds context to what they've posted.
> ...


 Thanks Chas.


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## rxh (1 Feb 2018)

Thanks - I hadn't scrolled down far enough to see the "Upload Attachment" feature. I still don't like it though .....


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## rafezetter (1 Feb 2018)

Wow who's idea was this layout?

Talk about wasted space - you could fit an entire post in the spaces between posts - now it's endless scrolling between them, maybe on some peoples phones with mahoosive screens you can fit two posts but not on mine - I have to scroll to read every. single. one. Even sideways.

And what's with the "auto hide posts with too many dislikes" - who made that particular call? So _you_ don't like a post, that's your opinion, does that give you and aother dissenters the right to censor what's been said? - Seems the answer to that is now "YES!". Thought I was living in a free society, but nope... too many of those and your post gets automatically hidden, regardless of whether that post has something valid to say.

I can see certain posters having quite a lot of thier posts treated this way - I could well be one of them, because I speak my mind regardless.

For anyone who doesn't like the now extremely intrusive adverts (down the whole right side) one word. ADBLOCK. it's free, it works. Use it.

Maybe those in control should have considered asking for "membership dues" like other sites I frequent, you pay a one off fee and no ads. EVER. Or have a small trickle payment system £1 a month from everyone should cover everything. Even if you PAID the moderators a fee.

Brandlin - I've never noticied your name before as a moderator, but the first post I read of yours was being patronising while accusing RogerS of being patronising, way to go on the first impressions mate.

Maybe so many of us are going down the "I don't like it route" is because we don't like it? It's not the change - is HOW the changes have been implemented, there IS a difference.

You might love it - you might even have been involved with it, who knows, but our opinions are valid nonetheless.....

Even if the new system will auto hide them so you don't get "offended" by being forced to read them.....

I also agree with what Monkeybiter says about the posters info - now we have to click thier avatar just to see the info that was plain to see before - it's only a small thing, but now if we want to reply to a "call for help" post, we have to look to see if they are in our locale before answering - you might think it's a small thing - but it happens on here often enough that having that info clearly visible does help.

My bottom line though is this - if certain posters decide they are not comfortable with this layout and leave - those posters who I think are the most invaluable to this site, then I'm off.

No big loss for you ofc, I'm a nobody; but if some of the big fish around here leave, then that IS a problem.



PS, how's that wall of text looking? Wait until a meaty WIP comes by.....


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## rafezetter (1 Feb 2018)

phil.p":11hyhnm2 said:


> flying haggis":11hyhnm2 said:
> 
> 
> > Why do so many forums go down the "it aint broke, so we better fix it " route
> ...


 I just learned a new word - ty


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## Brandlin (1 Feb 2018)

rafezetter":1csz1s5t said:


> Brandlin - I've never noticied your name before as a moderator, but the first post I read of yours was being patronising while accusing RogerS of being patronising, way to go on the first impressions mate.
> 
> Maybe so many of us are going down the "I don't like it route" is because we don't like it? It's not the change - is HOW the changes have been implemented, there IS a difference.
> 
> You might love it - you might even have been involved with it, who knows, but our opinions are valid nonetheless.....



Hello rafezetter, I'm Brandlin... or Alan, nice to meet you. I dont think i am your 'mate', but happy to become one. No, I'm not a mod and not involved with the changes in any way.

And yes, I was patronising. Deliberately so. In response to a clearly pejorative and patronising post I simply replied *in the same tone* to make a very clear point.

Everyone has their own opinions and is entitled to express them. I have zero problem with that from anyone. However there is a difference between 'freedom of speech and expressing your opinion' and 'freedom from the consequences of your opinion.' If you want something to change or you want to engage someone and convince them to your point of view I don't think insulting and belittling them helps. 

I'm pretty sure that the administrators and mods here have spent A LOT of time making changes to the forum... I believe Charley outlined some of the reasons for them in another post. I think that warrants a little more respect and support than the 'fly off the handle', 'marginally insulting', 'the end of the world is coming' responses some of the users here have had. Yours included. Now its true i am sure they can fight their own battles and are relatively thick skinned - i know whats its like moderating elsewhere. So i will apologise to the admins if my comments have caused any problems for THEM.

I've replied to maybe a dozen posts today where people have complained about a feature that is missing. Not asked where to find it mind, just ASSUMED it has gone and *complained*. A couple of minutes looking around the new layout i found that feature and responded helpfully. 

Everyone will have a different view on what needs to be changed and how. But the admins need to do something. That doesn't give anyone the right to simply be rude.

Your own tone for example is not inquisitive about the changes, it is simply a condemnation. In terms of feedback to the mods I think I could summarise your comments as:

1. I find that there is an lot of white space between my posts - is this intentional or might there be something in my browser? If intentional then I find it almost unreadable.
2. There seems to be a feature that autofilters out heavily disliked posts. I dont think this is a good idea. could it be reviewed please?
3. I think the advert are too intrusive and take up too much space on my screen.
4. It would be more helpful if the posters info were on the main post not in a drop down menu.

Now I can't speak for the mods but i'm pretty sure that's a nicer read and feedback on their work than a belligerent 'toys out of the pram' rant you have indulged yourself in. You decide for yourself which approach is likely to get a helpful response. Personally I dont think its a post that starts with the openly sarcastic attack "Wow, who's idea was this layout?"

I suspect that what is happening at the moment is the complexity of a modern website requiring different layouts, spacings, templates and style sheets to cover every possible screen size, device type and browser is causing SOME people to have a different experience to others, and that a lot of this will be teething problems that will get resolved relatively quickly. 

Now if you are prepared to be civil, i'm happy to continue the conversation. If not you might like the FOE option in the new My Account section where you can add me. 

Apologies to the admin And to reiterate my thanks for their efforts in making these changes. If I can help, let me know.

Apologies also to everyone else for the length of this reply.


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## monkeybiter (2 Feb 2018)

Is 'FOE' an acronym? :wink:


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## Brandlin (2 Feb 2018)

monkeybiter":zd6u3h8n said:


> Is 'FOE' an acronym? :wink:



lol. No. Its the opposite of Friend.


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## rafezetter (2 Feb 2018)

Brandlin":1vkbot4d said:


> snip



I've snipped your quote purely to save the readers from double sized wall of text.

My reply was not a /rant or a "toys out of the pram" reaction. I rarely have them, here anyway, because most posters are adults and don't say things that deserve a verbal spanking, but when I do, you can be assured it looks very different than my post you replied to.

Your reply to mine implied I was insulting, belittling and rude - can you show me where exactly, and I mean actual insults or belittling wording, rather than implying I'm doing it because you're not happy with my chosen phraseology.

Could I have stated it better? Sure, but this is a post on a forum, not something I'm writing that I know will get mass attention (I write elsewhere) and by readers where written english is not their first language. Do I think a post on a forum requires multiple proofreading and editing passes to remove any personal overtones I may feel on a given subject?

An EMPHATIC no, because forum posts are ALL ABOUT opinions, and how they are worded is part of that flavor. If you aren't comfortable with reading something that clearly carries the writers personal flavor with it I suggest you move on, an open forum format for discussion isn't for you.

I'm not about to sanitise how I write, or spend the time doing so, even had I the inclination, purely so that others feel more comfortable.

Most of the time it's not even necessary because the topics posted are as benign as paint drying, but when the residents get rowdy, the passion shines through, and it's that passion that brings us all here in the first place.

You have also assumed I know not of what I speak - I remarked on the spacing and you suggested I could not tell if it was the new site design or settings on my browser.

I know it's the site and not the browser, because I use two different browsers for different things, the reason is complicated and irrelevant, but necessary. I checked the site on both, it looked the same.

Ok I admit my wording regarding the autofilter of disliked posts was quite heavy, but then automatic censorship based on "likes / dislikes" from the readers has NO PLACE in a forum like this - or anywhere to be frank, because the mechanic behind it is one of personal opinion. I moderate on two gaming forums and used to write frequently on a third and I can tell you that personal opinion and bias is a topic best stepped around with light feet and giving the readers of a post the ability to force it into censorship is a sure way to p.... posters off and give them a reason to go elsewhere.

I can tell you from four years of experience of this particular forum that some threads have become quite the fracas without adding the insult of a post being censored (auto hidden) because of a dissenting viewpoint..... Sharpening *ducks* being the first to come to mind.

I don't think this function needs to be "reviewed" - I think it should never have been turned on in the first place, and removed the moment it became known.

It's the forum equivalent of "LA LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!" and in my 19 years of exposure to the internet, I've never seen it used in a forum until now - not even on some forums that allow aggressive language and topics.

Allowing the residents to self moderate is just asking for trouble.

You have also said all the other posters have* complained* (bold, underlined as per yours). A statement made using words and a tone you would not, is not a defacto complaint, merely; a statement made using words and a tone that you would not, and unless you quizzed each poster for clarification, is merely your opinion.

Just like everyone elses.

PS. this reply is not /rant or "toys out of the pram" compliant either, and you do not know me anywhere near enough to claim otherwise, so please don't.

PPS - am I reading this right? Are you suggesting I block you because of your reply? I'm an adult, not five years old.

PPPS - this is me being civil - I know there are some special snowflakes in the world who think everything short of licking thier ar... isn't being civil, but this is how civil looks for the majority of the rest of us non snowflakes.


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## devonwoody (2 Feb 2018)

I do not like the new layout, feels like I am in an empty space and very unfriendly surroundings.


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## devonwoody (2 Feb 2018)

My avatar does not work it is now static and does not display previous work .

I had great difficulty getting back to this thread. the option to "view own posts" not displayed?

And the scroll bar is slow and jerky.


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## SammyQ (2 Feb 2018)

Firstly, new format is less user-friendly than before. More scrolling, less obvious tools, too small display of content. I write as a digiliterate adult. 
Secondly, "Thank you" to Chas for calm, clear, short, explanations to those cast adrift by change.
Thirdly, this forum was set up by Charley and others as an information exchange. Flame wars are things we should rise above; Jacob and Bugbear's legendary exchanges not withstanding, I'm sorry to see the 'new' format sullied already by petulant playground posturing. No names, you know who you are. Both of you.
Fourthly, the changes seem to have be welcomed more by mobile users than those of us with more modest data usages, who actually sit at a PC (wiv a BIG screen for tired old eyes). If that is what indeed has happened (presumably after a representative poll of users?) then I for one will probably not surf here as often, or with as much pleasure, as I did before. 

That is, methinks, going to be disappointing to 'the backroom boys' who have spent time and effort putting this new format through beta testing etc, but there it is. It may be an age thing; older, more settled boyos don't tend to march down the High Street, head down, focussed on their electronic comfort blanket. No, I am not being condescending or patronising; merely saying I have NOT succumbed to the strident siren call of the mobile 'phone industry convincing us we HAVE to keep up at all costs, everywhere, all the time, instantly. It makes THEM "lotsa money" donit? 

My 'jury is out' on the change; I will give it time to see if I can adjust, but I echo an earlier poster and No 1 above, it almost seems "dumbed down" to be more readable(???)...Adieu.

Sam


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## DrPhill (2 Feb 2018)

FWIW I struggle to decide whether to favour readability on mobile without tapatalk or making the most of my hi-res laptop screen. So far I have no real opinion.

It is change..... change happens in IT. The content is the same, the people are the same why worry? My phone and its apps change regularly, sometimes for the better. My OS (mint) changes rarely and usually for better. My development kit at work (iOS/MacOS) changes almost monthly and usually breaks something or makes it more complicated. 





(almost completed six decades myself...)


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## johnfarris (2 Feb 2018)

A consultation would have been a good idea before any changes had taken place. I wouldn't have minded paying a subscription for this site. Was their any warning of the changes made? I didn't see any. I appreciate their is a owner of this site and he can do what he wants, but a lot of people have contributed to make it what it is past and present.

I have been mostly a lurker since the conception of this site so I guess its going to be quite hard to get used to the change.

Bring back Alf and Scrit i say


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## MattRoberts (2 Feb 2018)

I do this sort of thing for a living, and with every single new version of a site you get a lot of people saying they don't like it and prefer the old one - it's human nature. The vast majority of their opinions are simply because it's different, with a few genuine issues included due to teething problems with any new site redesign.

After a short while when those teething problems are resolved and everyone finds how to work with the new site, the vast majority of naysayers are happy again.

People should really try and give it a week or two of use before providing any kind of constructive feedback


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## Geoff_S (2 Feb 2018)

It's for fun and it's for free.

Thanks to the moderators who run this site and I am sure did the upgrade with the best of intentions. Well done guys!


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Feb 2018)

^^^ what he said. I've never owned a phone that did any more than phone (and haven't even got one of them atm), so whether it's better on phones doesn't interest me a jot. Likewise, thanks to the people who work to keep it going ................... but I don't like it much.


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## CHJ (2 Feb 2018)

DrPhill":qex69img said:


> (almost completed six decades myself...)



Still a youngster then


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## John Brown (2 Feb 2018)

I hate all change. Why oh why can't we keep the forum the way it was when it began?
What's wrong with tablets of stone and chisels anyway?


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## CHJ (2 Feb 2018)

John Brown":bm6zzpy2 said:


> What's wrong with tablets of stone and chisels anyway?



Chisels Blunt too easily.


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## NikNak (2 Feb 2018)

When i logged in yesterday i thought "uh ohhh.... whats going on here...." :shock: 

Today i logged on and thought "I kinda like what they've done here...." =D> 

Like others have said.... its not my train set, but i'm very grateful that i'm being allowed to play with it for free (hammer) (hammer) 

And as for pop up ads... what ads.? i dont see ANY..!! :mrgreen:


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## Duncan A (2 Feb 2018)

I don't particularly like the new site but it is far easier to use on a mobile phone, which is how increasing numbers of people access the internet.
As regards the white space it is not always easy to avoid when using a website builder; layout options are frequently limited unless resorting to some form of coding.
The people who run this excellent site no doubt have a life to lead and there will be a limit to how much time they can devote to fine tuning the site, although I'm sure they will listen to constructive comments and make appropriate changes where they can. The site works and it is free and I am very grateful to those who put so much work into it, sometimes with plenty of brickbats and little thanks.
So, from me....THANK YOU FOR A WONDERFUL WEBSITE.
Duncan


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## Tasky (2 Feb 2018)

FWIW, unless the Mods code the forum software from scratch themselves, it will be a service and software system provided by some company or other, like PHP-BB. In the latter case, they will implement changes (to all their forum users, not just UKW) to take advantage of new things like social media apps and the like, so any newness is nothing to do with forum mods or admins and totally beyond their control. 



Ttrees":ezzmhzvk said:


> as I have to scroll to the top to select a category.


Press the Home key on your PC keyboard. 
There should also be a red square with a right arrow that appears in the bottom right of the screen - Click that to go straight to the top. I believe it should also work that way if you're on a Smartphone.


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## DTR (2 Feb 2018)

I find the comments about improved use on a mobile quite interesting. I browse the forum mostly from my mobile via Tapatalk, so the supposed improvements to mobile browsing have made zero difference to me. 



CHJ":32pos2u4 said:


> John Brown":32pos2u4 said:
> 
> 
> > What's wrong with tablets of stone and chisels anyway?
> ...



It sounds like the chisel you're posting with is made from an inferior grade of steel. You should try PMV-whateveritis. What honing angle are you using? For posts including a quote I find that 29.6 degrees is too shallow but 30.2 degrees is too steep.


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## Tasky (2 Feb 2018)

CHJ":j48e4226 said:


> Chisels Blunt too easily.


Have you tried using James Blunt? (hammer) :lol:


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## Halo Jones (2 Feb 2018)

I think it looks fine. No big spaces that some are complaining of and the windowis resized so that only the text area is visible. I always use adblocker so the intrusive adverts never bother me.


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## llangatwgnedd (2 Feb 2018)

Far easier to read on my mobile, just wish the text was as dark as the advert text :shock: :roll:


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## Jonzjob (2 Feb 2018)

I like it, but then again I have always liked green :? :? 

It's a darned sight better than one of the Mac forums I'm on. A few daze bafore Christmas we were told that they would be closing the forum on the 31st Dec! It's still running though so I assume that as they didn't specify which December it was it could be the next one ? :shock: 

I have noticed that in some of the replies there is double spacing between the lines and single in others? Quite odd really?

Photos?

https://flic.kr/p/VCyhWL

Absolutely no idea?

Edit? The 4 likkle boxes at the top of the post, just click on the left hand one and select edit from the drop down box. Good 'ere init :mrgreen: Shame about the photos though. I tried both the 'img' & the 'url' tags and no photo posted.. Any ideas please. I was using Flickr to try.. and it worked before.


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## powertools (2 Feb 2018)

Well all I would say is that in my humble opinion the days when people would boot up their pc just to veiw forums such as this are long gone. I have a pc in the spare bedroom that I seldom use and would not bother going up there just to veiw this site.
The changes that have been made are a massive improvement for what I suspect is a growing number of people who want to casually surf the internet for interesting content whenever they have a free moment wherever they are.
Hopefully these changes will bring in a lot of new members who otherwise would not have bothered to join.


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## nev (2 Feb 2018)

Jonzjob":i9ox15sb said:


> I like it, but then again I have always liked green :? :?
> 
> It's a darned sight better than one of the Mac forums I'm on. A few daze bafore Christmas we were told that they would be closing the forum on the 31st Dec! It's still running though so I assume that as they didn't specify which December it was it could be the next one ? :shock:
> 
> ...



Yes, for some reason pic from Flickr not showing. I shall pass it up the food chain to see if there are issues.


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## RogerS (2 Feb 2018)

I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.

As the dolphins said ...

"So long and thanks for all the fish".


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## NickN (2 Feb 2018)

Jonzjob":1pk0jhgl said:


> I like it, but then again I have always liked green :? :?



That's got me confused... here's what I see:


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## AES (2 Feb 2018)

RogerS":3e417tv6 said:


> I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.
> 
> As the dolphins said ...
> 
> "So long and thanks for all the fish".



Well I for one think it's a shame if you really do go RogerS. Like many, I HATE change (I'm probably worse than most in that respect!) but to me this Forum has so much value as interest, enjoyment, not to mention LEARNING that I think it's a shame if anyone leaves - especially someone who talks sense "now and then"  !

Won't you do what I think a lot of us are doing, and stick around, try a bit of "I wonder was this silly little button does?" and again like many of us I suspect, at least learn to live with it (and then, after a while, not even notice the changes any more, just reading it for the content, like we did before)?

I DO understand and sympathise with your frustration though. But if you read I think it was Charly's explanatory post elsewhere, some change was forced on them because the bloody software providers stopped supporting the software! AND, you must admit, not everything in the old garden was all lovely was it? How about the number of posts arising on the topic of "How in hell do I post pix on this Forum?".

Suggest you sleep on it mate.

No offence intended.

AES


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## Random Orbital Bob (3 Feb 2018)

Oh Roger, surely you’re not “going” (again) are you......shame. 


Hey ho.......see you in a couple of weeks


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## sawdust1 (3 Feb 2018)

The old format ain't coming back so we will all have to get used to it , nothing stay's the same forever. My only complaint is why the big space between the paragraphs and all the white space is annoying!
Other than that all is OK for me.


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## petermillard (3 Feb 2018)

I like it. Much easier to read on an iPad, vastly better on a phone - though like many I mostly use tapatalk there. 

Here’s a fun exercise for all those whining about these changes; imagine if Charly, in anticipation of all this whingeing and moaning, simply shut it down and moved it to a Facebook group? Bet that ‘new look’ doesn’t seem so bad now, does it??

And for the love of God, everybody do the forum a favour; instead of bleating about the space the ads take up, interact with them occasionally - you know, actually click on one now and then, see where it takes you. It’s the only way sites like these get any funding. 

P


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## andys wood shed (3 Feb 2018)

RogerS":35j4qyok said:


> I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.
> 
> As the dolphins said ...
> 
> "So long and thanks for all the fish".



Has the Forum been hacked?
Yes by grumpy old men

The new format is perfect for mobile use


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## Doug71 (3 Feb 2018)

I like the new look, the old one was looking dated. It is good to keep things fresh and you do have to move with the times. I think it will bring in new members and in a couple of weeks it will seem normal to existing members.

Doug


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## MikeG. (3 Feb 2018)

powertools":qgl25a85 said:


> Well all I would say is that in my humble opinion the days when people would boot up their pc just to veiw forums such as this are long gone.......



Judging by when people post, I'd guess that an awful lot are reading the forum on PCs at work. That's certainly the case for me. 

At the moment, I rather dislike the changes. I'll see how I feel about it in a few weeks once I am more familiar with it. It's a bit annoying to have to go back to an index page to get "new posts", rather than have the button available at the top of every page. Oh, and Adblock + is fully operational, and I won't even consider altering its settings given how little of the screen is now given over to space for postings.


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## Brandlin (3 Feb 2018)

MikeG.":2bockfs8 said:


> <snip> It's a bit annoying to have to go back to an index page to get "new posts", rather than have the button available at the top of every page. <snip>.



You dont need to go back to an index page. 
Click [Forums] on the menu bar, in the drop down list click <view unread posts>
The menu bar is available on every page - admittedly thats two clicks rather than one, but the same drop down menu also gives you the option to get to your posts, unanswered posts, new posts, active/popular posts etc.


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## Steliz (3 Feb 2018)

I haven't been a member here for very long so my opinion may not count for much.

I understand the need for change and I'm comfortable with that and I also don't have any issue with the function or layout of the new site. I'll get used to it eventually, probably sooner rather than later.

My first impression of the changes was that it is very light and lacking in contrast. I realised that my laptop screen settings were at 100% brightness so I knocked that back to 75% to try and compensate but it is still glaringly bright. I can't reduce that anymore as it affects the viewing quality of other websites.

So, my only suggestion is that it could do with being a bit easier on the eyes. White on pale blue is uncomfortable.

Steve


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## RobinBHM (3 Feb 2018)

Many thanks for all the hard work by those that have created the new site look  

When I first logged on and saw the new layout for the first time, I couldnt understand what was going on, panic set in, I started hyperventilating........, Im now in recovery,the tablets have calmed me down a bit and I hope to be out of hospital soon :lol: 

Some forum monitise the site by offering a voluntary subscription, a low level option for frequent users to pay a few pounds a year as way to say thanks and a higher level option for, if you professional users that both contribute with technical knowledge but also can promote their products.

This site is by far the largest UK forum for woodworking, probably 10 times the size of other sites so I hope it continues to develop and succeed.

Its a shame the site doesnt encompass professional sections for those of us in the industry, it would be great to have a resource like Woodweb for the UK.


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## GrahamF (3 Feb 2018)

powertools":2dt0gtkd said:


> Well all I would say is that in my humble opinion the days when people would boot up their pc just to veiw forums such as this are long gone. I have a pc in the spare bedroom that I seldom use and would not bother going up there just to veiw this site.
> The changes that have been made are a massive improvement for what I suspect is a growing number of people who want to casually surf the internet for interesting content whenever they have a free moment wherever they are.
> Hopefully these changes will bring in a lot of new members who otherwise would not have bothered to join.



In my humble opinion, you're wrong. My browsing for instance is 90% on a pc, occasionally on tablet and my phone is just that - a phone.

My dislike of this type of forum layout is partly down to cost. Using mobile internet for around 8 months p.a. I'm having to pay to download advert and video content I don't want. Fortunately, adblock works to remove some. 

Another forum I use daily has viewing options to cater for those using pcs or tablet & phones, just click which format you want. Any chance of that here? I think the new style is **cking awful.


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## Jonzjob (3 Feb 2018)

I must be one of a dissapearing group that actually uses a camera to take ohitis, a phone to make phone calls and a computer to look at the internet. 

As for staring into a tiny screen to anything but put a phone number in? 

As I have said before the forum looks OK to me on Firefox, so no complaints from me. If it did finish up going over to Farsebuck or any of the like then it would loose this user as I would not touch it with a very long pole!


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## AES (3 Feb 2018)

Jonzjob wrote,


> : I must be one of a dissapearing group that actually uses a camera to take ohitis, a phone to make phone calls and a computer to look at the internet.
> 
> As for staring into a tiny screen to anything but put a phone number in?



Yup "JJ", there's at least the 2 of us still alive in this world. Phones are for phoning, cameras are for picture taking, and POCs are for loking at For a like this. "Old fashioned" moi? Yup, and (mostly) revelling in it   

AES


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## WoodMangler (3 Feb 2018)

powertools":1o0lcthw said:


> I normally look at the forum on my phone and this is a massive improvement.


I think this is an indication of why so many forums have changed to this sort of layout. I didn't like it when I first saw it, but so many forums (fora?) have gone this way now, that I fear we're just going to have to get used to it.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Feb 2018)

andys wood shed":moifn1lh said:


> RogerS":moifn1lh said:
> 
> 
> > I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.
> ...



Which of course is meaningless to those of us who don't view it on a mobile.


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## GrahamF (3 Feb 2018)

I would suggest the reason for change is because of the money to be made every time someone clicks on a displayed advert. Our sailing club site has a link to Amazon and the club receives a small payment every time someone clicks the link - they don't even have to buy anything. Friend with a boat related site says he earns £600+ per month from Google just from people clicking links!


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## stuartpaul (3 Feb 2018)

RogerS":2193pomc said:


> I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.
> 
> As the dolphins said ...
> 
> "So long and thanks for all the fish".


Spits dummy and flounces off stage left!   

At least the mods/Charley are listening to people and making some changes (font colour already changed).


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## Student (3 Feb 2018)

Re. the new look:
Do I like it? No.
Will I live with it? Probably.
What can be done to improve it? Remember that the majority of members are of a certain age and grey text on white (as it shows on my iPad and laptop) is far from ideal. As someone else said, if the text for adverts can be in black text, why not the rest of it.
Although this is supposed to be a complete revamping of the site I notice that, on the top menu, most is irrelevant:
•	MIsc. – most of the content is way out of date
•	Reviews – mostly by Charley 14+ years ago although there are a couple by others from 6 years ago
•	Videos – again, all posted by Charley and the most recent dated 5 years ago
•	Project showcase – nothing newer than 2 years ago
The content of all these tabs could be moved to the forum pages. However, having said all this, the site is a wealth of information for novices such as me so I can’t complain (much).


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## Jonzjob (3 Feb 2018)

stuartpaul":13aleu5d said:


> RogerS":13aleu5d said:
> 
> 
> > I loathe and detest it as I've already posted . I hate this 'modern look' which has infected far too many forums . Too many basic design errors to begin discussing.
> ...



Blimey! Are you telling me that it's not green anymore :shock: :shock:


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## powertools (5 Feb 2018)

In my humble opinion, you're wrong. My browsing for instance is 90% on a pc, occasionally on tablet and my phone is just that - a phone.

My dislike of this type of forum layout is partly down to cost. Using mobile internet for around 8 months p.a. I'm having to pay to download advert and video content I don't want. Fortunately, adblock works to remove some. 

Another forum I use daily has viewing options to cater for those using pcs or tablet & phones, just click which format you want. Any chance of that here? I think the new style is **cking awful.


As long as your humble opinion is based on fact rather than your own personal habbit I am happy to stand corrected. 
My humble opinion is based on fact.


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## hammer n nails (5 Feb 2018)

Yes dislike button works great forum but preferred the old site


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## GrahamF (5 Feb 2018)

powertools":2ygeztmc said:


> As long as your humble opinion is based on fact rather than your own personal habbit I am happy to stand corrected. My humble opinion is based on fact.



You said it was "your opinion" and I offered mine in reply. The facts are that a very large percentage of the posts on forums I frequent are made during working hours on company computers, by people who should be working. The majority of my acquaintances and friends do indeed prefer computer keyboards, these days more laptops than desktops, possibly due to being of the older generation, needing glasses. 

Maybe you would like to share your "facts" and the sources?


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## [email protected] (5 Feb 2018)

Admin will have stats for what screen size is being used by people viewing this forum. Its these stats that often drive a decision to make a site mobile friendly...


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## powertools (6 Feb 2018)

I think that the stats from Ofcom will be far more realibale than anything you or l could submit.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/la ... mr-uk-2015


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## Paul200 (6 Feb 2018)

No mobile signal where I live so although it was nice of you to attempt to make me use the damn thing I'm afraid it didn't work! :wink: :roll:


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## powertools (6 Feb 2018)

I am not trying to make you do anything.


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## GrahamF (6 Feb 2018)

powertools":1yl9l021 said:


> I think that the stats from Ofcom will be far more realibale than anything you or l could submit.
> 
> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/la ... mr-uk-2015



Some interesting figures there and the growth in smartphone usage isn't a surprise but quite a few gaps in the knowledge base. From what I gather (as I don't own one) smartphones are on-line as soon as they're switched on and remain that way I suppose all day, whereas laptops and pcs are generally only on-line when actually being used so it's hardly surprising there's a vast difference in on-line time. 33% of internet users prefer smartphone (does this include tablets?) and 30% laptops so, what do the other 37% use? 

Anyway, WTF, I prefer the Asus notebook pc I've been using most of the day, as usual

edit - smileys don't appear to be working


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## nev (6 Feb 2018)

GrahamF":jx0lye2o said:


> ...
> Anyway, WTF, I prefer the Asus notebook pc I've been using most of the day, as usual
> 
> edit - smileys don't appear to be working



Try putting a gap after the word usual and before the :


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## [email protected] (6 Feb 2018)

powertools":10ni79ci said:


> I think that the stats from Ofcom will be far more realibale than anything you or l could submit.
> 
> https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/la ... mr-uk-2015



how can OFCOM say what screen sizes users here are using? as in using for THIS site??


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## Charley (8 Feb 2018)

Regarding the Flickr image.

https://flic.kr/p/VCyhWL isn't a direct link to the image, it's a link to a site, which is why it isn't working. 
The image url is actually https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4308/352 ... d3b1_z.jpg




IMG_1889 by John Fairbairn, on Flickr


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## nev (8 Feb 2018)

Jonzjob":2c6rkuqb said:


> ....
> 
> Photos?
> 
> ...



Hi John, 
Re: sharing Flickr pics
As Charley says in the above post, when sharing from the Flickr page choose the Sharing *BBCode* option and copy the link and then just paste that into your post without any need for the IMG or URL tags.
That actually pastes two lines of code into your post.
You can leave it like that or edit the links.
If you leave it as is it provides a link to your Flickr page. 
If you'd prefer just to have the pic with no external links just delete everything apart from the bit between (but including) the IMG brackets.
so just keep the part highlighted in *bold*

{url=https://flic.kr/p/VCyhWL]*{img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4308/35200603144_ec827cd3b1_z.jpg[/img}*[/url}{url=https://flic.kr/p/VCyhWL]IMG_1889[/url} by {url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/]John Fairbairn[/url}, on Flickr

becomes

{img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4308/35200603144_ec827cd3b1_z.jpg[/img}

that will result in ...


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