# Are flagpoles ok or am i being prickly?



## SPinonit (10 Sep 2010)

My neighbour opposite has installed a rather tall flagpole in his front garden. The garden is tiny, so the flagpole sits adjacent to the footpath behind a small hedge. The pole is at least street light height and is quite a large diameter so it's not discreet. A cross of St George is flown from it - raised and lowered each day. It is a large flag and flaps around noisily. 

I'm not very comfortable with the flagpole being installed there, but I cannot decide whether I'm being over-sensitive or does anyone else think flagpoles are a bit of an eyesore and does not really fit in an ordinary residential street? 

I am very patriotic and we had loads of England flags all over the house during the world cup,but this thing has appeared since then and looks to be a permanent fixture (I could be mistaken). I'm also aware that flagpoles [over a certain height] require planning permission, but I've not been consulted or given a chance to comment and the council website shows no application or permission granted for it. 

I keep wondering "what next" if I don't speak to them or the council soon. I also think it could put off potential buyers - not that I'm looking to sell (although I might be after the government's spending review in October!). 

They are a bit of an odd couple, but they are very nice people and I don't want to cause upset or rifts, so any idea about the best way to handle it (if I'm not alone in my views)? I'm happy to go talk to them, but I sometimes struggle to say things the right way and I could get it disastrously wrong. 

Steve


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## Max Power (10 Sep 2010)

If the sight of your nations flag upsets you, then youve got bigger problems than your neighbours flagpole


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## Noel (11 Sep 2010)

Alan Jones":2cendubp said:


> If the sight of your nations flag upsets you, then youve got bigger problems than your neighbours flagpole





The guy is looking for help. The main issue is the flagpole and the noise from the flag not, as you put it, "his nation's flag" maybe read his post again or go and make use of a well known 2 for 1 offer in your local high street?

Steve, maybe best to find out exactly what the planning position is before doing anything. Could also be worth speaking to other neighbours to try and gauge their feeling on the matter first before you approach the couple concerned. 
Also it shouldn't be hard to work out a rough idea of the height of the pole using a known figure (such as the height of a person or if there is a wall or hedge in front of the house).


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## misterfish (11 Sep 2010)

There is obviously a different ethos in different countries about flying your national flag. If you look at the USA it is quite clearly different and individuals flying the 'Stars and Stripes' is normal and almost expected - here it is the exception. One of Norm's projects was to make a flagpole and the end of the program showed it being erected and a flag proudly flying.

Apparently here there are 'strict rules' about flags/flagpoles

_The first and most important thing to remember is that you have the legal right to fly your national flag. The Cross of St George is England's national flag and you can fly it within the regulations if it is not defaced in any way.

A St George's Cross with the word "England" written on it is not Eng­land's national flag, and such flags fall under the Town and Country Planning Regulations (control of advertise­ments). Quite rightly, Government officials can ask for them to be taken down at any time. The problem is that some, but not all, councils and their officials allow these flags to be flown for short periods during special occasions, such as the World Cup or on St George's Day.

Flags must always be flown at full mast but you should note that the erec­tion of flag poles is sometimes subject to local planning requirements, which can vary from place to place. It is advisable to contact the local planning authority for further guidance.

There are no regulations to say that national flags cannot be flown from an angled flagpole, but, as with most things today, the flying of flags in any shape or form falls under the British health and safety regulations._

Also

Yes, you need planning permission, from your local council, to erect a flagpole. Flag poles at private residences are classified as "miscellaneous structures" and subject to planning regulations. Generally, a local council will have a local planning order for flagpoles which would require planning permission for a single pole in front of a house that fronts onto a highway or public (but it would probably be granted as long as it was not too high, and no one objected). Whereas a single pole that was behind the house would not require permission providing that it was not too high. More than one pole would probably be considered excessive for any domestic property. 

An example would be: 

"A local planning order allows that you may, without planning permission, erect a flagpole within the curtilage of a dwelling, provided that the house is neither a registered building or within a Conservation Area, where on completion of the operations there would be no more than one flagpole within the curtilage and the height of the flagpole would not exceed 5m above ground level" 

My experience of being near flags flown from flagpoles is that they do make some noise when flags are flown from the flag itself and also from the rope the flag is lowered and raised on at all times in the wind. However this type of sound is normal/usual at the coast where sailing boats are anchored - if I walk down into Bosham I expect and quite enjoy the sound. Also, years ago we lived in mid Wales and to get any TV signal needed a large aerial on a tall pole with guy ropes - we used to get noise from this (very windy and wet up in the mountains) but soon got used to it.

It doesn't help that the BNP have effectively adopted the Union Flag as their logo, but I believe flying the England flag with pride is OK in the right place.

The OP needs to decide if the flagpole is annoying enough to make a fuss. As they are 'nice' people that you obviously speak to why not just ask about the flagpole when you 'just happen to meet them'. You could then ask if they needed planning permission almost as an afterthought. 

Misterfish


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## Waka (11 Sep 2010)

Misterfish

Very interesting reply thanks for the information.


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## cambournepete (11 Sep 2010)

As has been previously said contact your local planning department.
Where I live the developers erect flagpoles for advertising and they can be noisy which annoys some people. They also get planning permission for them.


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## matt (11 Sep 2010)

It would put me off buying your house.


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## Max Power (11 Sep 2010)

The OP has already said that the flag is quite correctly lowered at night ,so there cant be any noise then. Is he seriously suggesting that the noise from the the flag is louder than most of us regulary make with woodworking activitiies or would he also complain about that or more importantly would he expect his neighbour to complain about noise produced by his woodworking activities ?


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## matt (11 Sep 2010)

Can't say the noise would bother me, just the faintly ridiculous sight of a flag pole etc. It would also make me wonder about the resident and "what next"...

I'm the same with car covers, security cameras, and similar... 

Perhaps the pole with pale in to insignificance when he adds stone cladding to his house, and/or mock tudor beams


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## JMcK (11 Sep 2010)

The halyards will still make a noise which can be enervating especially during the night when it is windy.

The mention of them frapping against the mast on boats is correct but,although it may be pleasant when passing by, they can be a b****y nuisance when sleeping aboard. 

If they aren't tied back it usually leads to a disturbed night's sleep.


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## Mike.C (11 Sep 2010)

Alan Jones":7dxxvf79 said:


> The OP has already said that the flag is quite correctly lowered at night ,so there cant be any noise then. Is he seriously suggesting that the noise from the the flag is louder than most of us regulary make with woodworking activitiies or would he also complain about that or more importantly would he expect his neighbour to complain about noise produced by his woodworking activities ?



What flag do the trolls fly?

Mike


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## Max Power (11 Sep 2010)

The OP was canvassing opinion. Im sure he never expected everyone to blindly agree with him. So if having a different perspective makes you a troll does the opposite make you a sheep :?


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## matt (11 Sep 2010)

Mike.C":f0694byx said:


> Alan Jones":f0694byx said:
> 
> 
> > The OP has already said that the flag is quite correctly lowered at night ,so there cant be any noise then. Is he seriously suggesting that the noise from the the flag is louder than most of us regulary make with woodworking activitiies or would he also complain about that or more importantly would he expect his neighbour to complain about noise produced by his woodworking activities ?
> ...



Where's the troll??? :-s

(Is this a comment steeped in history - they always throw me in threads)


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## studders (11 Sep 2010)

As a hobbyist and DIY'er I tend not to kick up any fuss about what the neighbours do, so long as it's within reason; else they might, rightly, feel entitled to complain about what I do in my Gridge/House/Garden.
That said then, providing the gripe is with an unsightly/noisy/large erection (insert ooh er missus) and not with the flying of the Flag itself, a quick (possibly anonymous) call to the local planning dept might ascertain if permission is/was required/acquired.


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## Mike.C (11 Sep 2010)

matt":32z83fb8 said:


> Mike.C":32z83fb8 said:
> 
> 
> > Alan Jones":32z83fb8 said:
> ...



History

Cheers

Mike


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## jlawrence (11 Sep 2010)

Personally, I'd prefer to see a small pole erected on the top of a house rather than a big 5m pole in the front garden.
Whether it would bother me would I suppose depend on the style of house - some can carry off having a flag pole in the garden, but with others it certainly would look stupid.
The noise from the halyards shouldn't be too bad - it's across the street after all - but there could be some noise.
If it bothers you, I'd estimate the height and make a discrete call to the local planning office.

Personally I'd love a flag pole but a) it would look very stupid at my current house, and, b) swmbo wouldn't let me have one.


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## big soft moose (12 Sep 2010)

misterfish":2tilfx66 said:


> Flags must always be flown at full mast



mrfish slightly confused about this one - my previous employer had two flag poles at the front of the HQ (one for the union flag and one for the organisation flag) and we always used to dip them to half mast on 11th november and on other notable occasions (such as the death of the queen mother and on 9/11 etc )

we would also drop the organisation flag but not the uniuon to half mast on the death of a trustee or staff member etc

are you saying that by doing so we were contravening the planning laws


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## Max Power (12 Sep 2010)

Saw a Union flag flying proudly outside a house today and it looked great, theres no finer sight than the Union or National flag, what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride as other countries have


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## misterfish (12 Sep 2010)

big soft moose":34vivnb0 said:


> misterfish":34vivnb0 said:
> 
> 
> > Flags must always be flown at full mast
> ...



I was only quoting what I had found out.



Alan Jones":34vivnb0 said:


> Saw a Union flag flying proudly outside a house today and it looked great, theres no finer sight than the Union or National flag, what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride as other countries have



My sentiment exactly, but our sense of national pride and identity seems to be somewhat lacking when compared to others.

Misterfish


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## matt (12 Sep 2010)

Alan Jones":3u3pqowd said:


> Saw a Union flag flying proudly outside a house today and it looked great, theres no finer sight than the Union or National flag, what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride as other countries have



Like most American things, it'll take a while to catch on over here...


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## Anonymous (12 Sep 2010)

Whats a shame is those who fly the flag of St George during the course of the year (not special events etc) are deemed racists and not patriotic as they may well be.

Society has dictated this trend, which is a real shame to be honest. To the original OP let him fly the flag with pride, if it is noisey just tell him its noisey and ask him if can they tie back whatever needs to be tied back to make it quieter.


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## SPinonit (12 Sep 2010)

Alan Jones":2aok12rz said:


> If the sight of your nations flag upsets you, then youve got bigger problems than your neighbours flagpole





Alan Jones":2aok12rz said:


> what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride



Alan, quite obviously you didn't read all of my post, especially the part where I stated that I am extremely patriotic. I will have no debate with anyone of that aspect - patriotic more than you have any idea about me.

I have no problem with the Cross of St George - in the right place, on the right pole and hoisted for the right reasons it is superb - agreed.

My original question was about the flagpole and flag, not requiring any questioning about the sense of patriotism, which appears to have hijacked the thread. It could have been any flag and I wonder if your answer would have been the same had it been another country's.

I think the comments made by others regarding reasonableness (of me towards others and them towards me) are far more pertinent to my question and I thank those who took the time to post a reply. I am aware of the local planning regs, it does contravene them and they have neither applied nor been granted permission. I am not aware of other neighbours' thoughts, but I shall make a few discreet enquiries before chatting with the neighbours in question.


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## Max Power (12 Sep 2010)

If its realy causing you that much concern then go and have a polite word
with them addressing the distress it is causing you .
They will appreciate that much more than having someone grass them up to the council, after which your reasonable neighbours may not be as reasonable.


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## Dibs-h (13 Sep 2010)

Alan Jones":1w932bsm said:


> If its realy causing you that much concern then go and have a polite word
> with them addressing the distress it is causing you .
> They will appreciate that much more than having someone grass them up to the council, after which your reasonable neighbours may not be as reasonable.



If they are otherwise nice folk - have a polite word. They may be completely oblivious to the noise\etc issues that you are experiencing.

I had a similar issue with some new neighbours who had moved into a house at the end of a private drive, yards from our house. When they exit this drive they are coming out on the right hand side, but rather than give way and make sure nothing is coming along on the left (and obscured by their wall) - they'd shoot out at 20mph and already had a few close calls.

On Fri - I saw one of them coming out and waved him down. After the usual - "You moved in, blah blah" I asked him if he'd do me a favour and then explained they were exiting on the RHS, didn't have right of way and there had already been a few close calls. He was apologetic and said he'd have a word with the drivers in the household. I didn't think much would happen, but later in the day Wifey came home and said "I've seen them lot coming out of the drive and giving way - did you have word or something?" At which point I thought wow.

HIH

Dibs


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## Max Power (13 Sep 2010)

Dibs that is deinitely the best course of action. 
Years ago I had the next door neighbour at our previous house come round to inform me that the dog I was looking after was howling as soon as I went out and it was waking her daughter up who was a nurse on nightshift.
I apologised profusely and assured her it wouldnt happen again and took the dog with me wherever I went after that and have had the greatest of respect for her ever since.
At this house I was investigated by the council because of a snoop complaining about the industrial woodworking machinery in my home workshop. The council werent interested once they had investigated what I did and were happy it was for hobby use , but I made it my business to find out who the snitch was and was less than happy when I found out who it was


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## Benchwayze (14 Sep 2010)

Just as long as they don't fly the Union Flag Upside-Bl**dy-down' (which is usually the case :evil: ), then I am happy. :wink: 

However, where I live residents need Council Planning Permission to install a flagpole. 

I really can't hazard a guess why this is, other than to ensure it is safe, and not likely to 'bean' anyone on the head in rough weather! 

John


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## Benchwayze (14 Sep 2010)

matt":3tkj4lba said:


> what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride as other countries have
> 
> Like most American things, it'll take a while to catch on over here...



I don't know so much about that one Matt. That ruddy expression 'incentivise' (or is that ize?) seems to have soon caught on. It's the 'darling' of far too many TV presenters and political spouters whenever they get chance to use this non-word! Even my USA spell-checker underlines it!

Why the heck can't they just say 'encourage'? :evil: 

John


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## matt (14 Sep 2010)

Benchwayze":nqlngtdi said:


> matt":nqlngtdi said:
> 
> 
> > what a shame people in this country havnt got the same sense of national pride as other countries have
> ...



"Motivate(s)".


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## Ironballs (15 Sep 2010)

I think the suggestions that said check anonymously with the council first to see what is and isn't allowed are sensible, as is then having a nice chat with your neighbour to express your concern. Leaving aside all the patriotic mumbo jumbo consider it as an object added to their property, I've seen houses round here with flags and some look good, others look rubbish and out of place, I've also seen gardens with stunning trees in them and other houses that have trees in 10ft long gardens that are as high as the house and utterly out of place.

The flag and pole you've described seem to fall into the latter and he may be willing to erect a smaller one instead - you wouldn't expect to get away with erecting a mobile phone mast in your front yard would you?


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## Benchwayze (15 Sep 2010)

matt":pvh5djb6 said:


> Benchwayze":pvh5djb6 said:
> 
> 
> > matt":pvh5djb6 said:
> ...



Or even 

Inspire, stimulate, induce, trigger-off, egg-on, prompt:

Anything but incentivize! The word isnt even in my copy of Roget's! :lol: :lol: 

Cheers Matt.

John


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