# Saw Bench



## Mr Ed (30 Jan 2010)

I've just completed this saw bench. Its entirely based on the age old English form, although ironically it was an article by an American that inspired me to make it.







The article is here if you wish to follow it; http://popularwoodworking.com/article/t ... _sawbench/

I like to think that every project is a learning experience and this was no exception;

1. I have never used drawboring before, but I now see it is a highly effective technique.
2. I don't agree with the current fashion for making benches out of softwood, as this stuff dents so easily I don't think its suitable.
3. This would be an excellent primer project for someone who is thinking of building a bench soon.
4. Apparently I can use nearly every tool in the shop, even to make something as simple as this.
5. I can't be doing with imperial measurements, so have to convert everything.

I'm not yet sure how useful this will be in my ongoing projects, but Mr. Schwartz seems to think its essential so I'll try it and see.

Ed


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## Smudger (30 Jan 2010)

That's a bit better than my €12 pair from Bricomarché!


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## jimi43 (30 Jan 2010)

And I bet it doesn't have a label on it that says "do not stand on this bench"!!!

Excellent job there Ed and a great project to start a workshop.

Oh to have the space!!!

 

Jim


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## Smudger (30 Jan 2010)

Oh yes. If I had that in my shed I'd have to stand outside...

But very nice.


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## Mr Ed (30 Jan 2010)

jimi43":1gljnhug said:


> And I bet it doesn't have a label on it that says "do not stand on this bench"!!!



I think I can safely say you could stand an elephant on this bench - the construction is substantial. I think it may prove handy for sitting or standing on, its certainly strong enough.

Ed


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## Karl (30 Jan 2010)

Nice one Ed - looks really useful. I might have a look in the 'shop and see if i've got room to store one.

Cheers

Karl


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## squib (30 Jan 2010)

Very nice, it is to be the next thing i shall build in the new workshop or a pair of trestles or....


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## chingerspy (30 Jan 2010)

Beautiful!! I really wanna make one now... was thinking of a pair of sawhorses anyway, this looks much nicer and can double as my sitting bench when not in use. Favourited for later. Can't wait till the garage is organised properly and I can ditch the 2 workmate copies to a dark corner 

That comes after my room is sorted though!

Desk built - finished today  Ronseal medium oak satin finish brings a bit of plywood up a treat!

Edit: forgot to ask... what wood did you use (noob here) as you state a dislike for building this sort of thing in softwood.


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## Mr Ed (30 Jan 2010)

chingerspy":395tpr7t said:


> Edit: forgot to ask... what wood did you use (noob here) as you state a dislike for building this sort of thing in softwood.



Its softwood, which is what led to my comment. My tenons were snug fitting and when I tapped it apart with a Thor rubber mallet after a test fit I ended up with loads of dents. I planed these out, but it made me think that a workbench made out of this would be wrecked after 12 months.

Ed


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## wizer (30 Jan 2010)

It's a lovely thing Ed and I'm sure you'll get lots of use out of it. I can quite honestly say that's one thing I never want to own, make or use!!


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## Mr Ed (30 Jan 2010)

wizer":1b1sh3w7 said:


> It's a lovely thing Ed and I'm sure you'll get lots of use out of it. I can quite honestly say that's one thing I never want to own, make or use!!



Are you not planning to saw anything then? 


Actually I don't know how useful it will be, but I'll give it a go.

Ed


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## wizer (30 Jan 2010)

Never by hand. Dovetails maybe.


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## Mr Ed (30 Jan 2010)

wizer":23ysgpk3 said:


> Never by hand. Dovetails maybe.



It would save all this torment with your tablesaw :lol: 

I'm intending to push myself to saw by hand more because I think once it becomes more natural it will be a quicker and cleaner way of working in a lot of cases.

Ed


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## wizer (30 Jan 2010)

I'm not knocking it, I just personally have no desire to break that much of a sweat in my workshop


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## chingerspy (30 Jan 2010)

Thanks Mr. Ed, I see what you mean now. I'd probably make it from pine too. Expensive otherwise. Out of interest if you were to make another from other wood what might you choose?

I'm veering away from the idea of a tablesaw. So this type of thing is something I'd really like.

I'm now thinking one of these and a pair of stackable saw horses (all made) will be the way to go. All of them will make handy steps, stools, benches and even something to cut wood on 

Meaningless twaddle follows:

On the subject of hand/power... I prefer to use hand saws, not sure why, possibly it's a link back to when I made birdboxes in my grandads garden. I do use my circular saw for long straight cuts but otherwise I have been using a small toolbox rip saw and a "tenon" saw from Wickes to make my desk. Payday gave me an excuse to buy a couple of nice LN handsaws. I got an 11" crosscut carcass and 12" tenon saw in Tilgear mmmm nice. Used them today, and they are a joy compared to the disposables - so much weight in them! I'm now on the lookout for a nice panel or rip saw for next months toys. Not really looked at any yet... more browsing


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## Harbo (30 Jan 2010)

I have a couple of Norm type saw horses - 5" wide instead of 7" and not quite substantial as those, but very strong. I think Norm said he keeps his outside and have lasted years?

Nothing wrong with softwood or that they will dent they are a "tool" after all.

Tom - ideal for sawing on, using a knee for support or for cutting down 8x4's using a pair of them. I stand on them, paint from them and use them for glue ups.

Chris Schwarz features them in "The Joiner & Cabinet Maker".

Rod


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## chingerspy (30 Jan 2010)

I was thinking of the Norm ones too, I have the vid so might watch it in a few 

I'm thinking of an excuse to make at least one soon now tbh. I have a project in mind to create a storage shelf across the garage in the unused area where the door swings up to.

This will help me clear the garage a bit and be a nice area to store the fishing gear so I can use the garage instead of working outside. A bench/step/cutting table would be used in every step of this project and in the future when I need my rods


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## Alf (31 Jan 2010)

Nice job, Ed. Been wanting to make one myself, but going to have to wait for my wide-topped sawhorses to collapse before I have room. (They're softwood, and I confess I like the fact that in any project-to-sawhorse collision, the sawhorse is more likely to be the one taking the dent.)


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## OPJ (31 Jan 2010)

Ed, I like the design. Looks to have more use than the average sawhorse or trestle, even though you can't stack one on top of the other.

If you're concerned about dents on the top of the horse, you could attach a sacrificial strip of 18mm MDF. That way, you can cut through it and replace it once it becomes chewed up. Dry biscuit joints work well and won't pipper up you tool edges, as opposed to hitting a screw or nail. :wink:


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## Mr Ed (31 Jan 2010)

I'm not concerned at all about dents in the softwood sawbench, what I'm saying is that if I had laboured long and hard on a full size bench in softwood I'd be frustrated for it to be covered in dents after 6 months. I agree that the sawhorse is a bit more sacrificial. The exercise of doing this made me realise that benches need to be something harder that the currently vaunted SYP.

Ed


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## Mikey R (31 Jan 2010)

Mr Ed":1wkurmog said:


> I'm not concerned at all about dents in the softwood sawbench, what I'm saying is that if I had laboured long and hard on a full size bench in softwood I'd be frustrated for it to be covered in dents after 6 months. I agree that the sawhorse is a bit more sacrificial. The exercise of doing this made me realise that benches need to be something harder that the currently vaunted SYP.
> 
> Ed



Hi Ed,

Nice sawhorse, whilst building my softwood bench Ive been ripping on my workmate, and a dedicated sawbench would have made life so much easier!

My bench is made from B&Qs finest construction softwood, so probably generic gnarley spruce - which is way softer than SYP. During construction, I found the trick is to keep at least one dent in the bench at all times  That way when its finished I wont be too fussed about dinging it up.

Realistically Im expecting to flatten it quite often, so most of the dings will get regularly planed off.


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## MikeG. (31 Jan 2010)

Is this a singleton, Ed? I ask, because obviously they a traditionally made in pairs that stack, and your lower shelf (something I have never seen before of a saw-horse) would prevent stacking. 

You may be interested to know that saw-horses were often used as a test for people applying for site carpentry jobs on building sites. They would be given access to scrap timber, and given a few hours to go and make a pair of stacking saw-horses which would then be inspected by the foreman. If they were good enough you got the job. 

My brother was given this test/ opportunity in Australia when he was looking for a job to fund his travelling in the 70's, and responded by saying......"look, I can either give $50 to a carpenter friend to make the saw-horses for me, or I can give the $50 to you. Which do you want it to be?"!!!!!! He got the job without making the saw horses!

I wouldn't be without mine, and stacking is an essential part of their usefulness to me.

Mike


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## Mr Ed (31 Jan 2010)

Its not a saw horse, its a saw bench. The distinction between the 2 might be esoteric, but I believe they are different things. The article I linked to clarifies why.

Ed


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## bugbear (1 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":1cal6i26 said:


> 2. I don't agree with the current fashion for making benches out of softwood, as this stuff dents so easily I don't think its suitable.



Better to dent the bench than a workpiece.

Similarly, a bench surface shouldn't be super shiny (*) - we don't want "over mobile" workpieces.

BugBear

(*) tip stolen shamelessly from Landis' book


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## grafter (1 Feb 2010)

see this on the lost art blog - Christopher Schwarz has updated plans and these can be downloaded - now allow stacking 

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2008/02/17 ... bench.aspx

pdf: http://blog.lostartpress.com/content/bi ... wbench.pdf


pictures of updated completed sawbench here
http://www.bob-easton.com/blog/?p=173


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## Mr Ed (1 Feb 2010)

bugbear":3md0um9m said:


> Better to dent the bench than a workpiece.



I dont think you need to put up with denting either. If ones benchtop is meant to be flat and reliable as a reference surface when building furniture I would have thought that avoiding dents and dings was pretty important. OK you can plane it flat but the point I was making was that with softwood this is going to be a pretty regular exercise.

I think the traditional choice of Beech is probably good for benches as a balance of cost, hardness and workability.

Ed


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## Charlie Stanford (1 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":3gkcxwex said:


> I've just completed this saw bench. Its entirely based on the age old English form, although ironically it was an article by an American that inspired me to make it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your project is obviously well executed but I find two boxes, a la Charles Hayward, more versatile to use as platforms for all kinds of sawing. They don't have nearly the visual appeal as your project but for the patient are susceptible to showing off one's dovetailing skills which does dress them up a little.


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## mr grimsdale (1 Feb 2010)

The very superior trad british saw bench/trestle/stool is different from all these so far, in that the feet are splayed outwards not only side to side but also end to end which makes them inherently stable, as a step-up frinstance. You can balance right at the end with no danger of it tipping.






They are also used as a classic first exercise in roof cutting.

I did a page here with full details of how to make one

I keep meaning to stick more stuff like that on my web site but that's it so far.


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## Jake (1 Feb 2010)

If you made those in African Blackwood with brass bits, you could sell them for a fortune, MrG.


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## Mr Ed (1 Feb 2010)

Theres also an opportunity for an extensive debate about the precise angle of the legs here...


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## mr grimsdale (1 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":2uwqaf5u said:


> Theres also an opportunity for an extensive debate about the precise angle of the legs here...


 :lol: Good point. 
In fact if you draw the layout as shown, the drawing works out the angles and you take them off directly with a sliding bevel, or by laying on the workpiece, so you may never know what they are at all (in degrees).
You don't even need to know dimensions - you can draw them in direct and take them out directly. But you might as well decide on timber sizes (these are 2x4" tops and 2x3" legs) and the height and width (can't remember what they were I'll measure them tomorrow).


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## Mr Ed (1 Feb 2010)

Having looked at the diagram on your web page I think the full size drawing to set a bevel is the only way I could do it; I got lost in the algebra part way through. :lol:


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## mr grimsdale (1 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":21vm0f6t said:


> Having looked at the diagram on your web page I think the full size drawing to set a bevel is the only way I could do it; I got lost in the algebra part way through. :lol:


That's the idea - it's a full size drawing (a rod) involving no algebra at all. Doesn't involve geometry or any other maths either.


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## OPJ (1 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":2udptpmk said:


> I think the traditional choice of Beech is probably good for benches as a balance of cost, hardness and workability.



One thing I don't like about beech is that it isn't as stable as many of the other woods. Price is good and it is quite hard. If you don't treat it carefully enough though, it'll split and crack like God-knows-what! At least, that applies to the locally-grown stuff I've worked with... European beech is available as 'steamed', which is supposed to help improve its stability.

I don't know why the Americans don't use maple. They must have tonnes of it! It can't be much dearer than SYP, surely?


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## Mr Ed (1 Feb 2010)

I thought Beech was meant to be fairly stable?

Ed


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## Auguste Gusteau (4 Feb 2010)

Here is another tutorial about building a saw bench:

http://www.traditionaltools.us/cms/inde ... pic&p=2766

Auguste


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## Benchwayze (5 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":3ct823b9 said:


> chingerspy":3ct823b9 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: forgot to ask... what wood did you use (noob here) as you state a dislike for building this sort of thing in softwood.
> ...



Ed...

I am making my bench from softwood. But I am putting up a big sign on the wall above it. 

ALWAYS use a bench-hook, paring board, and morticing block! :lol: 

I should add that I have some nice maple reserved for the vice jaws. 
8) 

That saw-horse would make a good seat for my old bones when I need to use it too. Nice job indeed.. 

One thing missing from the design.
It's usual to bore a hole at the intersection of the 'jaws', presumably to prevent splitting along the top. 

Regards
John


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## EdK (6 Feb 2010)

Very nice !
I made one out of scrap based on the Schwartz one. I just used the dimensions I had so the legs are a bit beefier than his but all to the same length/height etc.
Wouldn't do without one (no table saw) now and use it alot (with my D112  ).

Also agree on the wood type - I reckon ash would be nice but then again that's about the only wood I've used so far on my house renno project... (when all you have is a hammer...).

As for leg splay/angle, I think that you could go a little on the steeper side than the Schwartz one so when you are ripping on the side of the bench you miss the legs - only noticed this with longer rip saws (28" I think).

Anyway, nice bit of kit and will be making another (better one) once I have a proper house to live in.
Ed


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