# Fitting a downstatirs toilet



## JungleJim (26 Aug 2007)

Hi Everyone,

I'm after a bit of advice. My wife and I have recently bought a house and it needs pretty much everything doing to it.

We are converting the larder into a downstairs toilet and I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on what to do with the soil pipe.








the existing soil stack is cast iron, would it be OK to fix the new toilet to this or will it be better to replace it?

is the soil stack too far away from where the new toilet will be?

Is this one of the jobs that you would get a pro in to do (I'll try my hand at most things but some things you just need to get right)?

greatful for any tips

cheers

james


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## Fecn (26 Aug 2007)

If it is too far, you can always look at a small-bore system like Saniflo which uses a macerator to dice the waste before pumping it through a 25mm copper pipe. It means you can put a loo prcatically anywhere and makes the plumbing much more simple.


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## tiler99 (26 Aug 2007)

Soil stack inside or out? How far is away from your position of 2nd toilet.
I am sure you can get get connectors but i think for what its worth i would replace the lot especially if it was outside.


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## Woody Alan (26 Aug 2007)

> Is this one of the jobs that you would get a pro in to do (I'll try my hand at most things but some things you just need to get right)?


I haven't had a "pro" in to do anything yet. I have however had lots of sound advice and done lots of research and these are the key things. Having someone to fall back on to bounce ideas off always helps the confidence. 
Your problem, I would be very wary of interfering with a cast stack, but the I have no experience of this. Four ways to approach this,have a go at breaking into the stack (angle grinder 9") be prepared to replace the whole stack (must be external I would have thought 1930's?) or dig up your drive/path and make a new entrance to the nearest manhole or join an existing pipe with running tee if it's close.
OLD I think may have some experience here as to whether it's possible to break into and make good in cast stack I find it hard to see how, because you have to make a sound seal above and below the insertion good product knowledge may help here, I would certainly be checking out my local soil/plastics supplier for adaptors.
As I have said I would always prefer to do myself and probably replace stack with plastic rather than pay a pro to make good. if you need to connect to soil glazed pipe in the ground there are adapters to do this, take care with glazed pipe it cracks easily.
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=47373
This is an example of the advice I would use. personally I would not spend the money on a macerator unless there is no other way to do it, you can definately do it and not expensive if you do it yourself just hard graft.
Cheers Alan


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## Dave S (26 Aug 2007)

I too would replace the existing cast iron with plastic, if possible, and it will make adding the new toilet much simpler.

I don't believe I have *ever* heard anything positive said about a macerator other than by the manufacturers. I would avoid like the plague. 

Dave


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## JungleJim (26 Aug 2007)

Cheers for the replies, 

The stack is on the outside(it is a 1930's, Alan your good :lol: ), The new toilet will come out about 2m from the existing stack (will measure for sure tomorrow).

I thought it might be better to replace the whole stack aswell.

Thanks for the link, i will have a read up about that.

cheers

James


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## toplink (26 Aug 2007)

If you install a pan with a P-trap (pardon the pun) and exit it straight out through the wall, you should have enough fall on the soil pipe to make a connection into the stack at ground level or at worst 3ins below. This of course means replacing the whole stack with plastic, not as hard as it sounds once you are past the first connection to the cast iron.

Simon


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## OLD (27 Aug 2007)

The joint CI to plastic is a flexible sleave with jubilee clips so its not good looking but you may find where CI is joined to salt glazed and make a connection there with mortar/grease impregnated tape.


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## haggisbasher (30 Aug 2007)

I understand the attraction of replacing all but to be honest its not as hard a job as it seems. you local builders merchant should be able to get a product called timesaver its a CI product with clamps instead of rope and lead joints. You get a 4" branch with the relevant gaskets for the thickness of the existing cast then run new plastic from the branch to the new toilet. 

heres a link to the timesaver website http://www.saint-gobain-pipelines.co.uk/soildrain/agtimesaver.cfm

its an extremely popular product here in Edinburgh where the vast majority of property has CI drainage.

Hope it helps 

Cheers
Tom


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## StevieB (31 Aug 2007)

The critical point for your situation will be the drop from the new pipe to the stack. This needs to be 1:40 or steeper to allow proper drainage. Measuring how far the distance from the new loo to the old stack and dividing that by 40 will give you the minimum height for the drop.

I have exactly the same situation with SWMBO wanting a downstairs loo in our house. Only trouble is the larder is on the other side of the house to the soil stack and drains. I have yet to take the floor up and see whether its possible or whether I have to go the saniflo route (as stated not good for solids).

Connecting to the stack should not be a problem - a trip to the builders merchants should sort you out. I replaced the underground waste pipe from the soil down pipe to a septic tank in my old house and connected with a plastic connector with rubber insert and jubilee clips - no leaks as far as I could tell and no smell either. doesnt look great but does the job.

If you are going to replace the whole stack then you have the problem of joining the existing loo to the new stack - if that is an old connection as well (webbing and resin) this may give you more hassles - something to think about before you start at least.

HTH,

Steve.


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## haggisbasher (31 Aug 2007)

1:40 would be great if you can do it but its not a deal breaker 1:100 will work just fine. The rubber connecters that people are referring to are called bandseal connectors and they are great under ground but dont use them on the vertical on a CI stack. A CI stack carries its load to the ground vertically, the clamps only hold it back to the wall they should'nt be loaded. The pipe must be solid top to bottom. This is one of reasons you can't insert a plastic branch into a CI stack. Plenty people try though.

Cheers
Tom


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## Beech Boy (31 Aug 2007)

HI Jim,
You have had a lot of advice regarding connection to the soil pipe but I think it would look a poor job. It will work if you have the correct fall but you have to be aware that a long run can un-syphon the trap in the pan. A better option from a building point of view would be to make a connection directly to the drain that must be near by and preferably to a man hole.

Regards,

Beech Boy


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## haggisbasher (31 Aug 2007)

sorry to disagree Beach Boy but a 4" pipe is not going to self syphon and the longer the run the less likely that possibility becomes.

Self syphonage frequently occurs in basins, baths and showers die to excessive pipe length or too many bends its not common in pipes larger than 2". I think a new drain connection and manhole is overkill for this job.

cheers
Tom


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## kafkaian (31 Aug 2007)

Don't forget building regs if this is a new installation or change of use. Come to try and sell your house without it and we're talking _Caveat Emptor_ again (Latin for "Buyer Beware")


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## JungleJim (3 Sep 2007)

cheers everyone,

I have contacted building control, as i am doing a load of other stuff. Hopefully i can get it all incorporated into one building notice application.

James


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