# Dovetailed Infill - First Fumblings



## Richard T

I have been wary about starting this new thread as I have another two WIPs on the go and I don't like to leave things unfinished. But as it's cold enough in the shed to freeze the brass off a monkey, I thought I'd do something a bit warmer and post some pictures of progress thus far. 

So; you're about to make your first plane from scratch, what kind of plane do you make? Well, the plane that I would most like to make first would be a Norris type smoother, coffin form, with brass sides, tool steel sole and and old iron. Not just any old iron - a Marples say ...

Then I did some sensible thinking and talked myself into making the first one from mild steel because I'd already got some and if I made a pineapple surprise out of it, it wouldn't have cost anything and to make it straight sided to get the feel of dovetails without trying to go round in a curve with 'em.

So how to begin and what to bare in mind. Starting with the sole: This will be a bevel down smoother so the mouth will have to be quite wide to let the bevel side through but it's best to keep it tight while making it so it can be fine tuned later. Also there needs to be enough width of soul to allow for extra metal to peen into the dovetails.

I decided on 6mm plate for the sole. The Iron is 2 - 1/8" wide so I left 5mm either side of that for the sides and a cautious 1/8" extra either side for extra metal. It should be 1/16" and I've probly made myself some work there but I'll see how it goes and maybe be more brave with the next one. 
Then to think about where the mouth should be - I agonised over this until I decided to put it where it looked right without measuring. So the back half of the sole takes two hours to cut with the hack saw and the front takes nearly an hour .... a small bandsaw for the bench is a thought I keep returning to.

Here's the front with saw cuts to take out the start of the mouth.







And here's the back having had the same treatment, cold chisled out and filed down to close to finished.







Butted up together.






More soon ...


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## Richard T

The two sole plate must then be tongue and grooved together. This was the part I was dreading most and I was right to worry - 'twas a nightmare... But it worked. 










As you can see it still needs some tightening up. But it's very satisfying that I have to tap it apart with a hammer to work on it. When it's togethr, it rings when flicked :shock: 

So, the sides. As I said I decided on 5mm thick for them. This is what 5mm sides look like compared to some old favourites.











Quite substantial. I've only cut out the back form of the sides - haven't decided on the shape of front handle/bun yet. 
One job I didn't anticipate was how much flattening they needed. First I thought they might be cupped, but no; both sides were V. slightly concave. So I spent ALL day yesterday doing this.









The Dreadnought file; One great leveler to another ... I hope. 
I then drawfiled 'em and have started with the emery cloth. There're looking good, but a bit less than 5mm now I fear. Not much though.

More soon..


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## Racers

Hi, Richard

Dreadnought files are ace I did the bevels on my knife with one bigger than yours :wink: cost me 50p from a car boot. If you draw file with them they made little curly shavings  

Pete


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## Richard T

The Iron I am building this around:





... As it was .... Honest! It looks much better now... This was some serious pitting.






In these pictures I'd only just started cleaning it up. Must get some of Jimi's magic stuff to have a go at it with. That stamp deserves to be seen in all its glory. 





(btw I'm not using the Carborundum to grind it ... yet. )


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## Richard T

Absolutely Pete! It comes off like swarf.


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## Crooked Tree

By the time that I got on to my 2nd little plane I had concluded that I was better off leaving any more than coarse flattening until the end, after peening the dovetails and rivets. This avoided flattening, beating dents into it agagin and then having to flatten all over again. However, you might not be so clumsy as me!


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## jimi43

Richard!!! You scoundrel!   


I wonder who else is cooking up an infill out there and also in lurkerland!

This is a wonderful start! I love it already...BRAVO my dear friend!

This gives me something to look forward to each day to see any updates that you have made....great fun..I shall be watching this with pleasure judging by the start you have made.

And it is refreshing to see that we appear to be getting all the tips and wrinkles as you go along....magic!

Keep 'em coming!

Cheers my friend!

Jim

P.S. I wouldn't have used your Veritas plane to smooth of the edge of the steel though!  :wink:


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## Richard T

Crooked Tree You may have a good point there although I do want a flat surface to mark - I think I'm probably just delaying marking the dovetails for as long as I can ... today I made the cap iron instead for eg... Oh well I will find out how dinked it is after peening and maybe next time I will have more of an idea.

Jim, I don't know about the "each day" updates - I've also got a halloween horror to fix as well as a Thing in the Garage to build, but this is what I'm most excited about at the mo' so like as not. I've been cutting and filing things in the day that I can fettle in the evenings in front of the woodburner. I guess I'm pretty much sloped on this.


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## Aled Dafis

It's great to see another member having a go at building an infill, I was just saying to the wife last night that I was tempet to make another one soon. I quite fancy haveing a go at a 24" jointer :roll: 

Just one question, why have you gone to the trouble of cutting a tongue and groove joint for the mouth, bearing in mind that this is to be bevel down plane? You could have just chain drilled a 5mm slot and filed it straight, I fear that the mouth that you've created is way too tight, and will be a nightmare to open out once the body is dovetailed.

As regards the dovetails, if you PM me your e-mail address I'll send you a copy of my Small Shoulder Plane assembly instructions that give fairly detailed instructions as to how I go about assembling/peining the dovetails.

Also, if you search the forum, I've written up a couple of dovetail plane builds and also a large smoother that I screwed together that worked out quite well in the end, despite breaking two taps in the sole at my first attempt.

Cheers

Aled


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## Aled Dafis

Richard T":2jr8tfbn said:


> Oh well I will find out how dinked it is after peening and maybe next time I will have more of an idea.



Top Tip - Three layers of masking tape will protect the sides from all but the nastiest dinks, and will potentially save you hours in clean up time later on. Masking tape is your friend, I have mine on a "sellotape" dispenser on the bench at all times.


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## Richard T

Hello Aled, 
that one question: "why have you gone to the trouble of cutting a tongue and groove joint for the mouth, bearing in mind that this is to be bevel down plane?" is a very good question... I think I just got so involved in all the skills involved in making these planes that I wanted to try everything all at once just to see if I could... I've made lots of metal joints over the years but this one ( a la Bill Carter) was new to me , so I was just curious even if it it not nessecsesry for a BD smoother. 
And worry not, this is not the final mouth gap. I will be opening it up before adding the sides. (As it is it wouldn't be wide enough for a BU.)
I have read your thread (s)- in fact yours was maybe the first I read - as well as just about all the other info on the net about the subject ( this could be why I am trying everything at once) but I'm very glad that you have noticed my efforts and can add the voice of experience to my first fumblings.


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## Richard T

Here is everything so far. Some bits fettled more than others.






The RH side has been draw filed and emery clothed, the LH side has been merely dreadnaughted. 
Lever cap still needs some shaping and evidence of forging removed and the cap iron is only very roughly shaped ... got far too cold to finish it last night.


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## jimi43

You just KNOW this is going to be a masterpiece...you can just feel it!

Wonderful progress mate!

Tell me something...what are you forging your lever caps out of?

Can we have some shots of the forge and the forging process...mould making and process in general.

I am contemplating a backyard foundry and this part is the bit that worries me so any help or WIP gratefully received

Cheers and once again...some gorgeous work there mate...

Jim


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## Richard T

Now careful there Jim; don't put the fluence on it ...  

The lever cap was forged from a mild steel bar a tad narrower and deeper than the widest part of the finished cap. First held at 45 deg to the face of the anvil and drawn out at that straight angle, then drawn over the bic (or horn if you're Americorn) to give it the concave neck. Then I beat the top into a ball and got it all as good as I could before hot cutting it off. 
As the smith on one Roy Underhill episode points out; 10 minutes at the forge is equal to an hour at the bench. Very true. 
There's still a lot of file work here though, no matter how good you can get it with the hammer and there would be with a casting too although with a mould you could certainly save some work with making steep, crisp steps and features that I couldn't get by forging alone. 
There again, bronze or brass is a pig to file compared to mild steel ... I think both methods might even out as being of equal faff. 

This made me wonder if lever caps were ever traditionally forged. I asked Bill Carter and he's never seen one. That's good enough for me. So maybe I should draw attention to this unique feature - "call yer self a plane collector? You haven't even got one forged lever cap ... that'll be sixteen million pounds fifty, ta. " 
Maybe I should stamp them accordingly although "genuine forged" would appear to be a misnomer. I'll think of something. 

Another plane will need another lever cap and when I make it I will try to coincide it with SWMOM and her camera. 

Will be very interested in how you go about casting Jim. I think a dedicated furnace could be easier to make than a forge ... ever the optimist ... Hey, you could make up your own alloy recipes - proper old fashioned gun metal for eg ... 8)


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## jimi43

Somewhere along the line I got forge and foundry all mixed up in my head! DOH!!!

Got it now...

I am stumbling through the great book Adam gave me to try to understand the nomenclature....and getting more and more confused by the minute!

I think I need to visit a foundry and actually see some small scale stuff before I embark on this road...but if I crack it...it should be quite easy to make many more castings and thus start selling crude ones for finishing...

But that's down the road....we shall see. 

Cheers mate

Jim


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## Richard T

For casting, a high heat needs to be maintained around a crucible for as long as it takes to melt the contents. I'm guessing that this can be achieved with dedicated apparatus for the task that can be left to do its thing. I s'pose I could melt brass like that in my forge but there would be a hellofalot of pumping and probably airway welding up as there would be no raking during the long heat. 
If I were you Jim, I'd have a peruse of the Anvilfire site; it takes some patience to search what you want to know but it's all there eventually. Hot metal work is such a big subject. 
There a several companies still here in Brum who offer casting services - I'll look into it,


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## Robert

I have done a little backyard casting, mostly aluminium and some brass, for a mill restoration project.
This is a good place to start:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metalcasting-Cr ... pd_sim_b_5
although there are several books around.
A well made pattern and cast should reduce the finishing work to not much more that clean up although you will have to manage gassing and grain size in the metal.
This furnace is on my "one day" project list:
http://www.artfulbodgermetalcasting.com/index.html
interesting links there too.
Chemicals needed (some very toxic) and other stuff we bought from here:
http://www.johnwinter.co.uk/

If you tackle this expect lots of failures at first, good luck.

Robert


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## Richard T

Many thanks for those links Robert. 
Just been reading the artful bodger site. Very interesting - but no mention of using coke (that I could see.) If going down the solid fuel route there would be nothing better. 
I use what are variously known as blacksmith's beans or beads- quite small pieces of coke that are pretty dense. I can easily get up to melting steel with 'em when I'm not trying to ... and that's in a forge not a furnace.


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## Richard T

Major cock - up on the sides front (homer) :roll: I had a load of wood delivered just as I was embarking on the dovetails and when I came back my head must have been full of sawdust .... anyway I've since made new sides and finished one (with the gaps in the right places this time.) Photos soon.
The next piece to make is the steel frog block that the very bottom of the iron sits on. I don't think enough is written about this. You never see it in pictures of planes as it is hidden away in there - people just want to show of the prutty curves and joints ... but it is an essential part that is probably going to be just as much work for me as the lever cap. It needs forging, shaping, getting the angle at the front dead right, and riveting into the sole before being riveted into the sides when they go on. 
My plan is to leave tabs on the sides and drill through for the sole rivets. We shall see .....


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## jimi43

Oops! I wondered what those hashed lines were for!

:mrgreen: 

Nil desperandum Richard...we have all done it...some more than others. My favourite is cutting stock short...it's never a "too long" error is it?

I am sure that you will use the steel for something else!

The "frog block" is something that I learned to respect after the brass shoulder restoration...a tiny deviation in the relationship between this and the sole will create havoc later on.

At least yours is out in the open...I have the chariot slope to mill! I am calling on dental assistance for this! :wink: 

Jim


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## Richard T

Second attempt; what a side should look like:







And retaining the full 5mm (apart from light grinding with flap wheel).






The other one is nearly finished. Now to concentrate on the frog block before I put it together.


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## jimi43

Boootiful work there Ricardo!!!

Hey...any chance of some close ups of the compound aspect of the dovetails...so that those of a soley wood disposition can see how this complicated joint would prevent the separation of the peined sides once done...for centuries to come..

Jim


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## Richard T

Yes Jim, will do. I'm going to concentrate on getting the tails in the sole cut before I set about the compounds, having studied all the pictures and writings I have found all over again. Then I've got to think about making a form to hold it while peening. I s'pose for a 2 - 1/8" iron sized plane I could use the same form over again ... question is, would it be easier/ possible to make one form in two halves and lots of different width spacers for in the middle an bolt 'em together or make a form for each width ...


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## jimi43

Is the frog part going in at the time of the assembly or afterwards...I can't quite picture how you are going to do that bit?

If after...how about a hardwood former...hardwood clamp side?

Does that make any sense? 

I take it you have this diagram:






Can you post any links for research you may have....it would appear that you have done quite a bit of digging!

Cheers

Jim


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## Richard T

Since the shed and I have thawed out a bit I've been back in there doing a bit of nibbling. 
The frog plate question has been answered by Peter McBride on page 6 of his Bench Rebate making demo

http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking ... ebate6.htm

He has just used 6mm plate riveted through the sole. So that's just what I'm about to do. I've cut the plate out and found some 8mm round bar. Now is the point that I decide what angle this smoother is to be - as it's English and I'm not from Yorkshire I suppose it had better be 47.5 degrees. (Wish I had a degree symbol on this keyboard.) 
Also now comes the decision about how much lateral movement to allow, and wonderings about why it's nessassserry at all? I've often wondered why, if the blade is sharpened square would it need to held anyway other than straight? 
Anyway, what with this iron being an old'un and tapered, it is going to get looser as it is sharpened away, so maybe it's best to start off quite snug. 
I'll try and get some photos took tonight.


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## goldeneyedmonkey

Richard T":3cekwlt3 said:


> (Wish I had a degree symbol on this keyboard.)



I had to find out how to do this when I read it! Type 0176 whilst holding down Alt key °. Looks like nice work on the plane build as well 

Cheers _Dan.


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## Alf

Alt+Shift+8 on a Mac, fwiw...


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## AndyT

On the question of 'why have lateral adjustment?' I think the answer is that, as a general principle, it's easier to make something adjustable than it is to make it absolutely accurate. 

If you make the blade fit exactly, and then your sharpening is the tiniest bit out of square, you're stuck. But if you allow a little room, a gentle tap can make the shaving evenly thin all the way across. 

Possibly also to allow for the whole thing not seizing up in the cold.


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## xy mosian

If you are jointing the edge of a board and manage to get a slight angle(out of square), set the blade high on one side and run the plane over it again to square the edge up. 
xy


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## Richard T

I finished the sides yesterday and started on the joints on one side of the sole. I got it to bite in last thing last night, but I have to say, it's harder than it looks.
I have finally got round to getting a blue marker pen and a proper scriber. This is narrow enough to get in to the 5mm deep joints and I couldn't have done without it. There's another essential item to add to the list of kit. 
So I had my really accurate scribed lines to work up to - worked up to them; nowhere near. Worked into them ... worked through them ... it was a long, slow process of taking off minute amounts then checking for fit. It would be very easy to end up with too much taken from one side of one joint and not enough from the other, but with all that constant checking I think it's going to be ok. 
One thing is sure. Next time I will cut much steeper angled tails. It has been a real pain to have such tight corners at the tops of them. Although I got out all I could with a knife-profile Swiss file, they are always going to be rounder than the corners of the "pins" that should be fitting into them, which of course can easily be got point-sharp. Pictures to follow this evening.

Thanks for the tip off Dan - but when I do that, I get this 

Andy, Yes I s'pose a wide blade is much more likely to get off square and lots harder to square up in sharpening than a narrow blade that is held fixed in a plough plane for eg. It's all academic for this plane of course due to the tapered iron but I just want it to have less play than the Veritas which has the habit of making several crazy side trips en route to its destination. 
Xy - I've heard of people talking about this as an option, but I can't say I've ever had the need ... probably I just haven't done enough planing to have made quite all of the mistakes there are yet - although it feels like it sometimes


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## goldeneyedmonkey

Richard T":lffa9h5a said:


> Thanks for the tip off Dan - but when I do that, I get this



, don't do it across the top of the keyboard, do it on the NumPad on the right, and check whether 'Num Lock' is on. °.


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## Richard T

Ok ... ° =D> 

47.5° Wayhey!


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## xy mosian

Richard T":3i3tw7am said:


> One thing is sure. Next time I will cut much steeper angled tails. It has been a real pain to have such tight corners at the tops of them. Although I got out all I could with a knife-profile Swiss file, they are always going to be rounder than the corners of the "pins" that should be fitting into them, which of course can easily be got point-sharp. Pictures to follow this evening.



Hey it's going great. 
Would it be herecy to suggest taking the sharp corners off the pins? After all with all that peining going on nothing will show.

xy


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## Richard T

Ok, after half an hour of trying, I can't stay online long enough to get the pictures into the post so I'll have to try tomorrow.

Xy - If I didn't clean the corners of the tails out, they would have had no problems taking the sharp corners off the pins.  
Got them quite a bit cleaner today and have had it all the way together. 
Here's hoping for a better Virgin.net service tomorrow .... :evil:


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## Richard T

Ok, let's see if this works any better now...





Well, now photo bucket is playing up. This is not the picture I elected to attach :roll: but at least it shows both sides cut out, the back half of the sole half cut out, the frog plate blank and my proper scriber and mini cold chisel. 
I'll consult the brains of the opperation and hopefully get more photos up soon.


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## Richard T

Right. Here's both sides and sole exploded fashion





and here how the first dovetails married up.






Though it doesn't look it, it's not in very far. Much fettling yesterday has cured this.


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## jimi43

Well Richard...that is a wonderful piece of work.

I think that some here know how difficult it is to do normal dovetails with no gaps in wood....but I think that few here have done complex dovetails with internal angles and would therefore not know how difficult this is.

I have only done it in brass and that was difficult enough...but to do it in steel takes pure skill and a lot of balls! 

I applaud you for taking on the challenge and multiple encores for the success you have had so far! 

Bravo buddy! That is some class work there!

Jim


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## Richard T

Thanks for the kind words Jim. But in my experience brass is harder to cut and shape. Mild steel is after all pretty much pure iron and it's really quite forgiving to a twit with a hacksaw. ( I wonder if anyone remembers an Adam Heart Davies programme that featured a battle between an iron and bronze sword - iron sword got badly dinked by bronze sword...) So although I'm looking forward to using brass or bronze, er, I'm also not. 

I should say here, before I forget, that another thing I will do next time to save a lot of work is to buy bright steel plate rather than black. I know it's all going to be ground/filed back a lot anyway before I'm finished but all the marking shows up so much better through blue ink on a shiny surface. I wouldn't have thought it, but it does. 

And just to side track a bit, when I started to think about making a dovetailed plane the kind I wanted to have the most was a coffin smoother a la stereotypical Norris. But I thought for a first attempt, a straight sided smoother would be easier. As I progress with this it is becoming more apparent just how much harder it would be to do this with curved sides. 
My mind starts to wander into all the extra steps needed - sides need to follow exact contours of sole, so make (cast) form to shape red hot sides around? Or make batch of soles all held together in vice to form batch of sides on? Maybe ... maybe cold pressed ... I wonder how Norris did it.
Also to hold formed sides for dovetail marking/cutting wooden forms would be needed in the vice. One could have a reference line on it to take square to each joint line on the side ... there's just so much more to do and to boggle the mind. 
I might have missed one but I haven't noticed any modern maker attempting it. 
One day .....


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## Richard T

As I have the camera girl on duty all day, I thought I'd try and get some more explanitory cutting - out photos. 





The other side of the sole draw filed smooth, blued and held in vice with piece of scrap pine supporting the side which is clamped down with a Carver to same piece of pine. About to scribe.






Having scribben, including square lines down to the depth line, I made hacksaw cuts just inside the outside angled lines. Then all the way along leaving less than a blades width between cuts and stopping short of the depth line.
Then the trick is to start to bend the first straight strip to and fro until it starts to fatigue.









Then it can eventually be broken out sideways. now the chisel can be got in (just, may have to break two out in some) and used to cut at the base of the stack of plates. 





This is the fun bit. As more come out the chisel can be lowered and it gets easier and quicker. 








Until we come to the corner triangular chunks which can be sawn out with a sideways strung hacksaw.









Lovely. Now lots of filing. Rather puts one off making a 28" jointer :shock:


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## MickCheese

Richard

Looking good and nice clear pictures.

Mick


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## CroppyBoy1798

Although I'm finding the work amazing I am though finding it incredibly hard not to visualise Fr Dougal Maguire making a dovetailed infill! It just doesnt sit right! That profile pic is incredibly disconcerting!! :lol: 

The thread is very inspiring though, would love to tackle one of these planes someday (guess I have a reason too seen as I now have a spare 2 1/4 inch old tapered iron and cap iron laying about......damn!) :roll:


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## Racers

Hii,

Why not cheat and weld the sides to the base? You could make one of these.






Pete


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## Richard T

Thanks Mick

Croppyboy Ah c'mon Ted, if I can do it, any old ejit can. I'm no Jeffrey Archer but ....etc.
2 1/4 inch iron eh? Wide enough for something longer perhaps. 

Pete Who done that? Did you done that? Does it have a thread (the other kind) somewhere? 
I think Ray Iles used to make welded ones commercially. I'm sure I've followed an old link to a "discontinued item" page a while back. 
Don't know why though; it would certainly save a lot of time and thus bring the cost down. More so than casting I should think. 

I've just got the two sides fitted to the back sole BTW. The second one went on with far less complaining than the first.


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## Racers

Hi, Richard

Yes I made it quite a fey years ago, it works very well and will tame the most difficult timber.

It doesn't have a tread but here are some pictures.

















The sides and adjuster post are welded to the base, the backing plate for the blade has spring loaded pins.
The cap iron is just bits of metal riveted together, the infills are Yew held in with epoxy and brass screws in shallow countersinkd with the heads filled off.

Pete

p.s. Shouldn't you take thet ring off? if you where to pineapple it flat with a hammer you would be in trouble :shock:


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## Richard T

Stunnin'. That's a brilliant design. An elegant and simple way to change the angle. And only the second one I've seen. 
Only just the other day I was wondering what yew would be like as infill material and if anyone had tried it (I have some you see.) 
I also have laburnum, wych elm, holly and believe it or not, elder and cotoneaster in big enough sections. But those last two have only just arrived in a green firewood drop off so it will be a while. 

I draw the line at wearing the ring for blacksmithery but bench work seems ok. I would be in trouble - it's only the second ring she made.


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## Richard T

Here's the state of play this evening.









Just about got the front half pins cut out this afternoon and sides to just bite in all the way along.





Here it is fully together on the back sole half with all the bits so far





And a tantalising idea of the near future (I hope). 

I just can't believe that it's all gone together. Mind you, holding the front sole to scribe was a three- clamp - problem.


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## jimi43

WOW Richard! It looks like one of those fancy 3D diagrams!

That is going to be one regal plane my friend! I bet it will heft a few ounces too once it's infilled!

Have you decided what you are going to fill it with?

Now for the bit that can be a pein!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Richard T

Thanks Jim. I haven't weighed it but it feels about twice as heavy as the Veritas - so 6lb + :shock: 

I have been thinking about what to fill it with and have made no decisions ... I've got plenty of suitable stuff set aside for use in ten years time, but only really have a choice of beech, wych elm, yew or laburnum that would be stable enough now. I might look into buying some old walnut if it comes to it. Where from though: Any hints? 

The next thing to do, after getting the front dovetails as good a fit as the rear, is to cut the angle on the frog plate, rivet it on and then draw the line of the blade down to the sole. This will (hopefully) give me an ejit proof guide of how much open the mouth.


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## Kalimna

Laburnum - a lovely wood, and not very often seen  

Adam


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## jimi43

> I have been thinking about what to fill it with and have made no decisions ... I've got plenty of suitable stuff set aside for use in ten years time, but only really have a choice of beech, wych elm, yew or laburnum that would be stable enough now. I might look into buying some old walnut if it comes to it. Where from though: Any hints?



Hi Richard

This is one that gets me everytime. Of course...if there was a continuous supply of Rio, the answer would be solved but naturally, there isn't so that's out.

I don't have anything exotic that wide...otherwise you would be welcome to it.

Try calling Robert at Timberline Exotic Hardwoods - Tonbridge or call him on 01732 355626. He's a wealth of knowledge on hardwoods and has some nice stock.

I think he has some bog oak....how about that!!!? A tad expensive though!

Is the rear handle going to be a handle or just a bun? You could use a nice burr if you are not going for a handle. 

What about ebony or African blackwood? That would be a beautiful contrast with the steel.

Jim


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## LuptonM

I vote cocobolo


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## Richard T

The plan is to have a full handle at the back with the adjuster mechanism let into it - so that will need quite a big piece. 
I've just been to look at the dry laburnum that I have and one log _might_ be wide enough ... I will cut it bias anyway, whatever it is, so that will make it longer diagonally. 
Though elm is tempting. I know it's not traditional or tight grained but it's very strong, smooth and hard. I have a block somewhere that was from the middle of a fork - could be quite interesting. 

Bog oak .... hmmmm... I don't know what that is like to work with. We saw something on Bargain Hunt the other day made from bog oak; they couldn't afford it. :wink: Looked more like jade. 

Still, this is just the first plane. I hope there will be many more and as many infill choices. I'll get on with some more before I start bothering everyone with adjuster arguments.


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## Richard T

Cocobolo ... the most dreaded of all tropical diseases ... You'll have to forgive me folks, I know next to nada about exotic arboreal foreigners. I try to use native wood as much as I can for everything else so this infill business might be an eye opener.


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## jimi43

Cocobolo is a wonderful "modern" alternative...and it is a beautiful wood to work.

With some of my UV treatment it will age towards Rio colour...in a few decades! :mrgreen: 

Yes...I think bog oak might be a bit expensive BUT...Robert may have some offcuts that might be cheap(ish)...give him a tinkle...he is a helpful chap if you catch him on the right day!

It is worth signing up to his newsletter...he doesn't bombard you with useless junk and they don't come often but when they do it is usually to announce some special arrivals. He has a huge collection of wood types and fair prices...highly recommended.

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Jim, I may well do just that; if not for this one, then in the near future.


----------



## Aled Dafis

Nice work Richard.

I still can't see through your reasoning for the tongue and grooved sole, it just seems like a lot of hard graft for no real reason to me, but nevertheless, it seems very well executed. I would have kept this little trick for when you make a chariot plane or even an improved mitre.

As regards the infill, I used Walnut for one of mine, and then ebonised it using a mixture of Vinegar and steel wool, which worked a treat. The Walnut was quite easy to work, was nice and stable, and was then finished to a nice dark (almost black) finish.

Cheers

Aled

P.S. Don't forget the three layers of masking tape for protecting the plane sides when peining.


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Aled. 
Yes, the only real reason for me making the sole in two pieces was to see if I could. After looking at the mitre sole demo on Bill Carter's site I just wanted to have a go at that joint. You know how it is with some joints .... just want to have a go... Also I thought it would be easier to open the mouth - I 'spose you can cut it quicker as you can use a saw but it has certainly been more of a faff over all and I certainly won't be doing one in future unless needed. 

And I do like the idea of walnut as it is so traditional for Norris and others of period. 

Ill _try_ to remember the tape ... :roll:


----------



## jimi43

Aled...that is an interesting tip there with the vinegar and steel wool...where did you get that idea from?

I wonder if it will darken all types of wood?

Jim


----------



## Richard T

I finally had a go at mounting the frog plate yesterday. Drilled three pilot holes in the plate, then clamped the plate to the sole and spotted the front two holes. Drilled those as pilot holes before drilling out to the final size. 
I've now riveted the the two front rivets and now it's really solid, will drill out the back hole and rivet that.











Even though I took as much care as I possibly could, the plate is still not absolutely dead square. Note to self: next time I will mount the plate sightly too far forward, rivet it on and file it back.
As it is, I will have to file back some of the mouth before reaching the plate. In this case it's ok because I have to open up the mouth anyway but if I had already chain drilled and filed the mouth to size, I'd be in trouble now, doomed to have a wide mouth forever. :| 

I keep looking at (and poking) my collection of posh wood for handles; Elm or Laburnum .... Hmmm ...


----------



## BelgianPhil

Richard T":i9pcgxi0 said:


> I keep looking at (and poking) my collection of posh wood for handles; Elm or Laburnum .... Hmmm ...



You need a quick release system so you can have Elm on weekdays and Laburnum on weekends, bank holidays, Christmas and your birthday.


----------



## Richard T

...or I could start the next plane... :roll:


----------



## jimi43

Surely for Bank Holidays you have to watch which way the bark lays? :-" 

I'm running out of coats!!!  

Jim


----------



## Richard T

ay don't wish to know that etc .... 

What I do want to know is how much shall I open this mouth? 

I've got it so as the iron just passes through, with not a gnat's crotchet of a gap thus far. I'd like to know what people's thoughts are on this bearing in mind that it is a dedicated smoother with an old fangled 47.5° iron 

Now I'm off to mess with me laburnum again.


----------



## Racers

Hi, Richard

I would leave it tight or even to tight and file it after peining it up, then you can correct any movement.


Pete


----------



## jimi43

Personally...I would go for "just daylight" at the front and be done with it. Difficult though it may be...you can face grind the whole frog/sole transition enough to open further if necessary.

I had the same issues with the chariot....at one point the iron would not pass and then all of a sudden...it works.

I am not sure about laburnum. I have a piece that has seasoned for decades - a branch...and on the lathe it splintered out all over the place and did not liken me to the species.

I would have a deco at the rosewoods knocking about at various suppliers or eBay and also speak to Robert at TIMBERLINE..... He has some really nice woods in stock and many offcuts are cheap as chips...you won't need much.

I am trying to get some offcuts of Bog Oak...I am fascinated by the stuff....

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Snap Pete!!


----------



## Racers

Hi, Jimi

Great minds think alike!

or is it Fools seldom differ :wink: 

I wood go Bubinga for the infill.



Pete


----------



## Alf

I thought perceived wisdom had now reached the point where a super tight mouth was only required by plane makers to keep the customer happy? But I confess I lose track.

I will second on Timberline though. Best ridiculous amount of money I ever spent on a plank of wood, if just to gawp at all the other stuff.


----------



## Richard T

Thanks all, 
I think I will leave it alone until I have peened it up - that's bound to tighten it a bit. 
Jim, because it's bevel down, the mouth gap is wide enough to get a file in, so I'll put it together, get the sole flat, then do any opening that needs doing as Pete says. 
Alf, my only experience with an uber tight mouth has been with experimenting with my Veritas la bu - as I can adjust it up to nothing. Seems to be a great preventer of tear-out when very tight but, of course, that blade set up is a completely different animal so I think I will start with as tight as poss' and open in minuscule increments if it jams. After all, it's going to get wider over time anyway. 

I've never played with laburnum other than with a chain saw so I don't know how it would behave as anything other than fire wood. It certainly looks crumbly but that might be because it looks so much like dark chocolate ....Ummmm... Laburnum ... (homer) Don't know. What I have is dead, but still drying out from having been snowed on so will be a while.
Today I'm going to look out something to make the peening form from. My confidence has been boosted by the successful riveting of the frog plate and I'm getting very excited about how it is now coming on so fast. Must take it slow and concentrate ... must take it slow and concentrate ... Rpt.


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard

I bought some bog oak yesterday...two pieces wide enough for infill restoration/build....with my mind being very curious about its properties, the wonderful intricacy with which it can be carved and the sheer beauty of the grain. It is the black/brown variety or part of the log.

It should be with me by the weekend so I will give you some feedback when it arrives.

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard...

The bog oak came today...check out my thread in Hand Tools on it in more detail....but I think this could be a beautiful and British candidate for infill where a dark and interestingly grained hardwood is needed....







This stuff is really beautiful but will be a NIGHTMARE to work with anything other than super sharp tooling!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Coo that looks interesting - if it's anything like a box I saw on tv recently it'll come up like jet.
What are you planning to handle with it ? 
I made a form from a lump of non bog oak yesterday ... that was hard enough.


----------



## Richard T

Right; long over due for an update here. I've been doing some major shortening to the lever cap and have it at what seems like a good length now at least there is more distance behind where the pins will be than in front - a good thing I feel. 
Also, I have discovered a different, quicker, better way to make cap irons. I was looking at Karl Holtey's blog. He has posted photos of the making of some of his cap irons while apologising for not having taken pictures of the bending of the fronts. This got me thinking that I could probably bend them too. 
So I cut out a piece of 4mm to size, got it all squared up, clamped it square to the anvil and hammered it over. Easy. This beats filing out underneath to emulate the LN type and it leaves me with the full 4mm thickness throughout which its plenty for the female threaded hole for the bolt without resorting to brazing on the familiar brass extra lump. 
Now I have the lever cap right I will be able to finally decide where to drill the pilot holes for the pivot pins. This done, I can finally think about putting in the compound angles and putting it together. 
Some photos later (I hope)


----------



## jimi43

Seems to me you could do with one of these Richard....






:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :? 

That is a great tip there...something to file in the old grey matter until the time comes! :? 

Jimi


----------



## Richard T

Ah... Fib n Archie - you never see them together in the same room. 
Anyway, here's the new improved cap iron. 






and






I am so impressed with this method that I spent today making another one. Never again will I cut corners (literally) trying to do the fancy ground - away thing. Bending is the future, and you may quote me.


----------



## jimi43

That's a great tip right there Richard! Stored for future use...in fact I may very well make one for my Spiers which had a rubbish one anyway....

Is that mild steel? Where do you get yours from?

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Yup Jim, it's mild steel.






So far during my plane making escapades I've been using black hot rolled. the down side to this is that when it is red hot it forms scale on the surface. When it is rolled the scale is pressed into the surface and it is an absolute pain to get off. This is what K. Holtey uses; but on his blog we see him merrily rough grinding this off on his milling machine. 
For me, this translates into grinding with a flap wheel in a hand drill trying desperately to keep it even - the scale is really hard and requires a lot of pressure to get through it, but once through, the wheel digs in very easily so it's hard not to leave the surface very bumpy. Then comes the whole evening with the metal cloth getting it smooth and flat. 
Next time I will get bright steel - cold rolled. 
I get my mild steel stock from Camp Hill steel in Birmingham. It's pretty cheap. I'm sure there are similar outlets all over the place.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Richard. Nice info!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

A quick list of excuses as to why I have been neglecting this thread ...

I got round to making a form for peining a while ago 






... then saw that Karl Holtey uses an aluminium block with machined supports, with teeth that press the individual tails in :roll: ...and kind of lost enthusiasm for my bit of oak. So stopped to dwell on that for a bit...

Then I got round to marking the holes in the lever cap,






Then got fixated with looking for square thread taps .... found three at the car boot, two too big and one dentally challenged, so stopped to dwell on that for a bit....

Then I came up with an idea for an infill mitre that has a Bailey type adjuster ... so I did a lot of thinking and drawing, then I finally managed to order some steel and couldn't resist making a start on the obligatory Norris knock - off:






Then I got orders for a million holdfasts..... but I will certainly be back at it soon.

Any ideas as to thread sizes an pitches for the lever bolt, or pros and cons of the different ways of pivoting the lever cap most welcome ...


----------



## jimi43

I know exactly were your are coming from..if I had a nickname it would be "Mr Tangental"..... :mrgreen: 

Looking good there Richard me lad...sorry to awaken the monster with my comments earler! :wink: 

Norris use 7/16 x 14 pitch square thread I think. The pivots can be done many ways...I have seen them drilled all the way through and then a steel bar inserted and made flush and a feature or you can use bolts and saw them off or you can use bolts...saw them proud and make them grub screws or you and really go modern and use Allen bolts which are recessed of stainless..(cool!)

I am sure you will find the best option to suit!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Jim,

7/16 X 14 .... I wonder where to look for that - I get google whacked when searching online and the only square taps I have ever seen are these I got from the boot sale a few weeks ago







- Ignore the #78, except for scale purposes. These were also the only ones the seller had ever seen and he had been carting them around for ages. 
Of course, there is then the problem of finding the corresponding threaded bar. I have vaguely been thinking along the lines of finding a clamp or such, common at boot sales, that I could use as a supply, then try to find the appropriate tap ... (I plan to turn the bolt heads from brass/bronze and square rivet them on so just finding the threaded bar would be ok.) I realise this might be quite a long shot but if possible it would be far the cheapest way. 

Along with all the mentioned pivot methods there is also the spring loaded method - and there is even a choice in that: blind holes or holes with shoulders and a narrower through - hole to poke things through to release the cap... so many ideas, so little brain space.


----------



## AndyT

Richard

Excuse me blundering in here - I'm not an engineer or a blacksmith - but somewhere (probably on here) I've picked up that square section threads as used on vices, clamps etc are also called Acme threads.

And searching for Acme thread taps and dies brings plenty of results. Admittedly this is a bit coarser - 7/16 x 10 tpi:






but the tap is only £12.49 and the die £15.50 inc postage from these people: http://www.rdgtools.co.uk

(And I'm still feeling a bit guilty for interrupting plane making by provoking a second wave of holdfast making, but also aware that you have made a big crowd of woodworkers a whole lot happier!)


----------



## jimi43

The square thread is really only possible on a lathe. Once I figure out how to set the bleedin' cogs on my ML1 I will be making some.

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Wow, thanks for that Andy - I s'pose 10 tpi would make over tightening harder .... as for die cutting it, I've not heard of it before but as they're selling a die ...? 

A mate of mine (who has just been here and I never thought to ask him Grrr...) has been making noises about getting to doing some for someone else, so I might get there yet one way or another (or another)

Jim I'd be very interested in how you get on with that - there's no reason why I shouldn't be doing it myself of course, just a case of getting round to reading the book that starts "Congratulations on choosing the Myford Super Seven .....) and finishes several hundred pages later. :roll:


----------



## jimi43

You have a Super 7 and I have my little old ML1.....get thee to thy lathe, brass rod in hand oh great one! :mrgreen: 

We shall go a knurling...a knurling...a knurling *(pictures Morrismen dancing!) * :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 



Jim


----------



## Richard T

"How did you bend the sides for the coffin smoother?" I (don't) hear you all asking ..... well I'll tell you. 

I cut some wooden blocks the same form as the curve I wanted ...






... and put the assembled blocks and side in the vice and squooze. 






Then re - cut it much further to counter spring - back. Wish I had found some nicer wood to use - this was like spongy cloth and even razor sharp gouges could not persuade bits of it not to disintegrate.
Any doubts I had as to the capabilities of the vice to bend 5mm were soon dispelled - not much effort at all. 

I don't think we'd be a patch on the best morris side I saw Jim, one at the Trowbridge festival - rather than dressed in white they were completely in black from head to foot: black top hats, round shades, waistcoats, tights and Doc martins. Instead of the usual piddly sticks, these were armed with pick axe handles (therefore entirely on topic I feel) and had dodgy cockney accents ... " whao dear muvver wot a fool I've bin .... Clunk!" It doesn't get any better (or worse) than that.


----------



## jimi43

Richard...that is just the best tip I have had all year! The simplest ideas are the best!

BRAVO old chap! =D> =D> 

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Jim - trouble is I now have to make another pair of blocks the right size/shape for holding the sides in the vice to cut the tails. So over - size for bending, right size for holding. Also on the holding blocks I will be able to mark square lines to copy into the tails ...
This coffin shape nonsense really adds extra faffs at every turn, no wonder no one makes them any more; Konrad S. the exception? Anyway, it will be interesting to see how much less work it its once I have all the extra paraffin - alia set up.

I ordered more 18mm wire for holdfasts last week and with it, 6m of : 5mm x 70mm, 6mm x 70mm and 8mm X 80mm. that should keep me out of (in) trouble for a bit. I feel some new files coming on too ...


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard

Isn't is strange how things go together...

Yesterday at the bootfair I forgot to mention...I picked up a nice old wartime book entitled "General Engineering Workshop Practice - A Guide to Principles and Practices of Workshop Procedure". It's really tatty but inside the front cover is a drawing of "a worker in a British munitions factory turning the bases of brass cartridge cases for A.A. shells", so I am looking forward to some wonderful wartime reading.

ANYWAY...I digress...I checked out the index and guess what I find under "A"....Acme Threads...cutting"

So there were two pages which I have scanned as a PDF for you:

CLICKITY CLICK

Which tells you about all you need to know on the subject. I think the previous pages about normal screw cutting may be necessary if you can't work out the basic principles from the Myford handbook....just let me know...I will scan those also.

Let me know what you think...

Cheers mate!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

That looks like a very useful bit of reading to have found Jim. Thanks for putting that up. It gives a slightly different perspective to the Amateur Lathe book I have bought. 

How that nut is set up for screwcutting on the face plate at the top of page 179 is just a taste of what I've been finding out is possible... in theory I could even mount the lever cap, bore it and thread it; just as soon as I find out how to find square and centre. 
If anyone is interested btw, I have another thread going on in the gen/off topic dpt. "about that lathe"


----------



## Richard T

All entirely by hand (no milling yet) I've finally cut out and fitted the coffin smoother.











I haven't driven the other side completely home in this picture as it is a right pain to get it apart again when they are both on tight - though it was at a stage where it would go on at time of photo.

The line down the middle was what I used to get the tails square to the plane in general. Everything about making curved sides is difficult. A different problem to solve with each operation ... and purely for the look of the thing. Never again! (maybe). 
Ah well, this will make the next parallel sided plane seem like a doddle. :-"


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard

Wonderful....!!!! My favourite thread is back at last! Yeh! :mrgreen: 

My dear friend...this looks like it has the makings of one superb piece of craftsmanship. Your attention to detail and reluctance to accept anything other than perfection is admirable!

I think it is this sort of thing that differentiates just a tool to do a job from a thing of joy to make you smile each and every time you take a shaving.

Am I correct in my observation that you haven't cut the mouth yet? On the last one you prototyped the creation of the bed by laying it down on top of the soleplate and cold rivetting the two...am I correct? This is so exciting!

I can hardly wait for the next episode. =D> =D> =D> 

Jimi


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Jim

Sorry this comes in such rare pieces, other things keep getting in the way...

I'm getting much quicker at it though - both marking and cutting. This one has had a lot less of the terror of failure attached to it.
Nope, I haven't cut the mouth yet and yup, I will make a frog plate and rivet it like the last one. Must look for some slim line files at the market tomorrow. 
Will try to get photos of the riveting this time. Also, I've got the lever cap to forge once I make a pair of tongs especially for holding such a short, heavy lump.


----------



## Richard T

Got he mouth cut out and the frog plate cut, shaped and centre punched ready for drilling.











I'm starting to rivet now with no means of taking photos. Maybe I'll leave one till the Camera Woman gets home.

One thing I've learnt about riveting in the last few days is the importance of using a narrow countersinker.
I finally got around to making a down bolt for the new garage door - riveting on the bolt rings. I tried a c/s I had scored at the carboot. A 45 degree one. It was a stretch too far for the rivets and small cracks around all four appeared in the final hammering home. No less strong and functional of course but I'm very glad I learned this lesson on rustic door furniture rather than on a plane. 
I'm using my old faithful 60 degree c/s again today.


----------



## jimi43

Nice one Richard! The critical bit over! I take it you have tested it with some stock for flatness and angle? (Sorry grandma!) :mrgreen: 

Good tip about the countersink...filed for future use!

I have been sorting my tap mountain out today....seems mostly BSF though quite a collection of Whitworth too which is good news. There seems to be three of each size too (1st, 2nd and bottoming) and I have put them in little plastic envelopes with some Camelia oil....unusual for me...organised!

Keep up the good work...this is going to be dynamite

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Jimi wroteSorry grandma!) 
..Au contraire Jim, I'm far from being past the need of egg sucking lessons;- just made a partial pineapple of the first rivet. Cut it just too long to start with then filed it down too much. #-o Should turn out ok though as the too - little metal is on the side that won't show. 
It's a real pain though. If it leaves a circle on the sole, I'll drill it out again. 
This makes me anxious to get it done to see if it is ok. So apologies for no wip photos of this bit. (of course if it isn't ok I'll have to do it again anyway...  )

The mouth is still in need of filing to its final size. There will always be some movement while riveting so best to leave the final fit 'til after I'm thinking.


----------



## Richard T

Situation rescued.






Invisible (ish) rivets and re-blued and remarked for the compound filing.







Invisibleish on top too, though this will be covered by the infill and only impressive to archaeologists. 






When starting to dome each rivet, I've been having to find anvil blocks of different heights to support the bar stock as it gets shorter. There's no way you can pre dome it just by holding it in the vice jaws. 






I've tried a few different weight hammers and find that a short grip on a 1lb hammer gives me the most control over both power and accuracy.


----------



## Aled Dafis

Why bother pre-doming? I've always just slipped a washer over the protruding rivet, placed the sole/washer/rivet assembly on the anvil and bashed the top of the rivet, then just flip the assembly over and bash the other side. Simples.

As regards the countersinking, I also found that out the hard way, so I now use a three square scraper to open the hole at a very shallow angle, four or five turns with a scraper is usually plenty.

Nice work on the curved sides by the way, I've never been brave enough to try one, but it's been on my to do list for about four years, one day...

Cheers
Aled


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Aled,
I think the pre doming business is a habit I have got into from blacksmithery - heading nails/bolts/rivets hot. Also I find it easier to judge the length to cut off the rivet when there is only one end to worry about. 

Oo! oo!! (puts hand up and sits up really straight) .... What's a three square scraper? I really need something that leaves a smoother finish than the countersink. Conical grinding bits can't be trusted to keep their shape.


----------



## GazPal

Richard T":ddw4j5mu said:


> Thanks Aled,
> I think the pre doming business is a habit I have got into from blacksmithery - heading nails/bolts/rivets hot. Also I find it easier to judge the length to cut off the rivet when there is only one end to worry about.
> 
> Oo! oo!! (puts hand up and sits up really straight) .... What's a three square scraper? *I really need something that leaves a smoother finish than the countersink. Conical grinding bits can't be trusted to keep their shape*.



Would a larger diameter drill bit or reamer do the job?

Lovely work by the way Richard


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Gary

A conical reamer at 60 or even 70 degrees would be ideal. I wonder if such a thing exists. :?: 

I remember seeing the thing Karl Holtey uses somewhere in his vast blog. I'll have another trawl through it later. (Any excuse  )


----------



## David C

Richard,

When I was building the ghastly Shepherd infill smoother kit, which is extensively described in my third book "Handtools and Methods", I consulted Karl on the riveting bevel question.

Now this comes from my memory and should be treated with caution. He recommended using a three sided engineer's scraper to flare the neck of the holes at a slight angle. Maybe only 5 degrees ? 

The three square scraper can be conveniently made by grinding and honing the teeth from a 3 sided triangular file. The sharp edges are used as a scraper to flare the top of the holes. This worked very well.

If in doubt e mail Karl.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth


----------



## Karl

I know nothing......


----------



## Richard T

Thanks very much for that David. It certainly makes a lot of sense. A very slight, smooth flare would be perfect. 
I've just been doing a bit of Googling and turned up plenty of Faithful and Eclipse triangular engineer's scrapers. The all describe the length but never the width. I must have a few larger, balding saw files knocking around somewhere .. I'll give grinding one up a go. 

Sorry to disturb you Karl ... mustta bin another another feller.


----------



## David C

Karl Holtey was my source...

David


----------



## Richard T

Got the frog plate filed flush.






It helps to alternate between cross and draw filing. That way I could see the previous marks disappear and make sure I was still on the same plane, checking the angle every so often.








Last thing yesterday I started to file the compounds out. First with a triangular saw file and then into the corners with a small half round.


----------



## jimi43

Richard mate...

Tremendous work.

I was looking at this thread and pondering about how many I have seen which detail the making of these old masters in the last research pass I made...and it is almost none.

None that do it by hand that is.

It is absolutely vital that we retain the various techniques and tips for the future...if not just for historical reasons but I believe, for new design based on some of these well-honed techniques.

I just wanted to make sure you realised how vital the pictorial part of your work was....it's wonderful.

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Jim, 
If you mean almost no details about coffin shaped (Bill Carter calls them boat shaped - much more cheery) I fully concur. I have a folder in my "tools" file entitled "Coffin Clues" - all the related pictures I have found on line showing hints as to the construction methods. I've said it before but there is a new problem at every turn with a curved sided plane. Cutting it is about the only aspect unchanged by the shape. Measuring, marking and just holding it are problems that require at least one jig each. 


Glad the photos are appreciated. I've tried to marry photo opportunity with work this time. I must remember to add one of the double vise I've knocked up - also out of nessessccity for this plane but will be useful for future straight sides too.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Richard...you have a PM

I think my first dovetail will be a mitre plane.

For a few reasons really...mostly because I love the shape, then because I want to use it on a shooting board and lastly...because the flat sides are a LOT easier!

I shall be putting in the traditional tongue and groved mouth...and probably use gunmetal or similar for the sides...although this is by no means a certainty at this stage. 

Your tips and wrinkles on your journey have prevented my from making similar mistakes...

I shall be free to find my own errors now! :mrgreen: 

Keep up the good work!

Jim


----------



## MickCheese

Richard

I have no intention of making a plane but am really enjoying reading your thread and marvelling at the workmanship.

Fantastic.

Mick


----------



## AndyT

MickCheese":76eah2ix said:


> Richard
> 
> I have no intention of making a plane but am really enjoying reading your thread and marvelling at the workmanship.
> 
> Fantastic.
> 
> Mick



Ditto!

It did cross my mind that if you wanted to mark the finished item with a brand name of your own, "Holdfast" might be an appropriate one to use!


----------



## jimi43

Holdfast is a superb brand name Richard!

Very symbolic of the Empire days from whence these planes originate!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Mick, thanks Andy - I think if I ever got around to selling both, the planes also being called Holdfasts might get a bit confusing .... bit of a price difference too.. coincidentally I am designing a plane that has all the best features I can think of and I thought about calling that one "Dreadnought" hoping that no one would confuse it with the file (or the HMS) 

Anyway, here is the vise arrangement I've been using to great effect to see into the corners.











It looks like a design by Mr. G. Bennet, but it works really well in providing a good view of the tiny scribe marks I was trying to file exactly to and not past.

Now here's the first of the you - know - what ...





Underside of dovetail peined from the centre to the corner moving steel into the shoulder socket in the pin.






My "punch" - a 1/4lb hammer ball down hit with the 1lb hammer face down. It really helps direct the flow using a punch and less stray hammer marks on the sole too (still some though :roll: )






My high tech clamping system - wooden form inside plane, G cramp on bit being worked, double folded leather over vise jaws. It's crude but it's ok. 





As far as I got a couple oh hours ago. I've since done 'em all but two at the back. 
I must say this is much quicker than cutting them. I love it!


----------



## Paul Chapman

Great stuff, Richard. As others have said, keep the pictures coming - your thread is really interesting.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## jimi43

One of the benefits of having 1/4" all around is that you have more material to pein into the corners!

I wonder what it would be like for 1/8" sides and 1/4" sole ala Spiers?

Excellent photo essay as others have said Richard...vital importance as this is perhaps one of the only WIP series that I have seen detailing the making of a curved sided coffin smoother with dovetails.

Watching with interest my friend! =D> 

Jim


----------



## Richard T

I've been doing all that with ball pein..... Blacksmith training hints that the spreading of the tails should have been done with cross pein .... I think that's right. Side to side and not all directions.


----------



## Richard T

I had left too much steel sticking out to pein - I think you know when there's too much, it folds back over and you can't see if the joint is closing properly or not. So I've filed it all back to a reasonable amount to work with. 
Note to self. Don't leave as much to begin with and save an awful lot of extra sawing too.
I'm terrified that when I file it flush there will be tell - tale lines along the bottom. Hard to know when it's definitely done...


----------



## jimi43

Mr Kingshott suggested 1/8" protruding.

Incidentally....did you read up on the most difficult bit...the fitting of the through rivets to hold in the infill wood?

You need to pein one side then the other and he suggests the use of a blank sheet 1/8" thick with a hole in it to fit the bit of rivet sticking out of the far side when you pein the near side first. This prevents the far side from retracting. Once the nearside is done...flip it over and remove this protecting plate to do the final side rivetting.

It makes sense when you think about it but you have to think about it first. He didn't on his first attempt and had to knock the rivet out and start again.

Also the use of a sprung shelf pin pair in the lever cap...allows for removal of the lever cap in the future without knocking out the rivets. Or are you going to screw it ala old Spiers?

Jim


----------



## Scouse

This really is the most fascinating WIP, thanks for posting in such detail. 

I'm a bit jealous really; I have neither the time, experience or bottle to attempt something of this order, even having read this from the start I wouldn't know where to begin! Maybe in the future... famous last words!


----------



## Richard T

I think I left 1/8" Jim. It was useful for pulling into the cutaway corners but with a bit more work I could have pulled more steel from the middle. After that, when trying to expand the tail in the joint, I was merely expanding the excess out side the joint. So I filed some off and carried on. Maybe I'll leave 3/32" next time. 
I haven't re - read up on the handle rivets yet, no. To sleeve or not to sleeve? (Mind you, I haven't got the handles yet. First, plant thy Walnut ... ) I think I would, as before, pre dome, especially in something that long.

Lever cap pins ... short and screwy I think, bronze perhaps. I've got plenty of round bar.


Hey Scouse - other than grinding the scale off at the start, this has been the perfect Luddite occupation. I did use an electric pillar drill but I know you have that area covered.


----------



## Scouse

Richard T":c3436c0b said:


> ...electric ...



e-lec-tric? Sorry, I didn't understand that bit; I just need to go and look it up, must be something to do magic and witchcraft or sumfink...! :mrgreen:


----------



## jimi43

Scouse":2rmu1oxv said:


> Richard T":2rmu1oxv said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...electric ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> e-lec-tric? Sorry, I didn't understand that bit; I just need to go and look it up, must be something to do magic and witchcraft or sumfink...! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...


It was invented by Harry Potterton Scouse.....came from he who shall not be named! :mrgreen: 

Imagine...those old guys at Spiers freezing their sporans off with brace and bit....we've got it easy! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Richard T

Going well so far 












I didn't follow Karl Holtey's advice to merely use the flat of the hammer to bevel over the edges of the pins. I gave 'em the full pein treatment. 

Elect - ric ... you know, ric for president.


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## Racers

Hi, Richard

Seems a lot of work, why not just weld the little sucker up that what I did for this one :wink: 





Pete


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## jimi43

This is going to be stunning Richard!

Peining is more a feel thing...there are probably as many ways of doing it...as there are makers.

It looks like you are getting plenty of stock into the compound corners...I found steel to be easier than brass...brass tends to harden quite easily when hammered (as the bronze age people knew!)....and then split before it beds in...

Superb mate...superb!

Jim


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## jimi43

Not to speak for Richard at all Pete....but for me at least...the answer is the same as for the question..why do people swim the channel when there's a perfectly good ferry? :wink: 

Jim


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## Karl

Richard - nice work. Looking great. 

Cheers

Karl


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## Aled Dafis

Looking good Richard, this is probably the most exiting stage of the process, finding out if all those dovetails have been peined fully. I dodn't think that you've much to worry about  

Cheers
Aled


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## jimi43

I was browsing Konrad's blog on the S&S website (my favourite makers!) and note that you seem to be mixing in exalted circles now Richard!

Sauer and Steiner Blog

Does this mean we shall have to call you "Sir" from now on!? :mrgreen: 

BTW...I simply love Konrad's new "speedboat" design...very 30's!

Jim


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## Richard T

Cheers Karl, cheers Aled. It's also exciting to find out what shape the sole is in after all that pushing and pulling. 

I did a bit more last night. I'll post later if I have made any significant head way.

Jimi wrote: "Does this mean we shall have to call you "Sir" from now on!?"

Yes. Yes it does. Lady T will be pleased when I tell her. 

Ain't that plane of Konrad's be - a - utiful? I think I saw one in an Arthur Ransome book purring across Windermere. 

I've been looking at different styles of Norris type adjusters and much as I dislike the one in my Veritas, I think I will have a go at one for this plane - as it's going to be longer it might have more lateral control.


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## Scouse

jimi43":12l74b8o said:


> I simply love Konrad's new "speedboat" design...very 30's!



I'm not normally a big fan of the look of infill planes, it's Richard's process of problem solving and production that I'm really enjoying here.

Having said that, and apologies for being slightly off-topic, that new Sauer and Steiner is a thing of genuine beauty.






El.


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## Richard T

Yup. Quite a way to go before I can compete with pictures like that ... as illustrated below: a spot of psychedelic high spot highlighting.






The high spots, where the file is making contact, are hatched.







Half an hour later and there is much more contact between file and sole. 






Earlier today. Drawing across the sole with a smaller file. Now it's ready for lapping.


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## uk woodman

Really looking forward to the next instalment! great work, I tip my hat in respect to you and your work Richard, well done =D>


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## jimi43

I was trying to work out what was wrong with those last pictures Richard...then it struck me...

The mouth is narrower than I am used to seeing...and then it hit me...the thick sides!

DOH! (homer) 

Me stupido! :mrgreen: 

Are you going to overstuff the infill mate? Good luck with that!!! :mrgreen: =P~ 

Jim


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## Richard T

Thanks UK Woodman 

Jim they are thick sides but there is also the thickness of the peened pins that I have left while I've been filing the sole. they are the only things holding the plane horizontally in the vice. Again, boat shape = :evil: 
If I made another I would make yet another jig for holding the finished shell in the vice and a different form from something very uncompressable like Oak or Ash. 
Only when I am sure it is actually at the lapping stage and does not need to go back in the vice will I smooth the sides. Then the mouth will look a bit more in proportion.


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## Richard T

Speaking of which ..... starting to file down the tails.










Which involves filing down the splay of the tails too.





Starting to draw file whole length





And getting to the whole width ... How many time have I filed this now? 










Till it's all nice and shiny again but this time you can't see the join. I'm amazed to be honest :shock:


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## Paul Chapman

Looking great, Richard.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## jimi43

Beautiful peining job there Richard...even Thomas would be proud of that work...you should be very proud indeed my friend!

Starting to form the shape of a proper plane now mate. I bet you are relieved to get past this milestone.

Can't wait to see the infills...what are you going to use? A plane of this status has to go the whole hog and have the very best ebony surely!?

Cheers mate...look forward to the next installment.

Jim


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## Alf

Really starting to look the business, Richard.


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## Richard T

Many thanks for the kind words folks. They really help amid blood, sweat and swarf. 

Thought I'd make clear how I held it to do that last bit of draw filing.






There. Who needs a pattern maker's vice? ...... (I do) :roll: Maybe a pressie for the new shed. 

As for infills - still dunno. I would like to use something a bit special but this will be my first go at it so maybe I'd better have a practice in Elm first. I have a piece that has the mechanics of a fork inside it. I'll investigate that.


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## jimi43

The great thing about infills Richard, is you can test fit them to see what they look like.

If you're not going traditional...then elm would be fun...can't wait to see it. Will you be staining it or au naturale?

Jim


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## Richard T

Finally got around to doing a bit of whittling.







Just file work thus far. Needs quite a bit more shaping/smoothing.






Looks odder semi naked than fully naked somehow. I'll be glad when I've got the handle sides done. Largely groping in the dark with this bit.


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## Fat ferret

Looks great. Want to have a go myself but have loads of gates to be getting on with :roll: .

Still think it's great how you are making a plane. Tool making, even just chisel handles, is always a bit challenging but to be able to make a plane is some achievment.


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## jimi43

Hi Richard

Just thinking...before you set it into place...shouldn't the handle base overlap the edges?






Or am I being premature and are you going to fit the handle into a slip base as on some....

Jim


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## matthewwh

Quite right Jim, but on the infills I have worked on the side cheeks are laminated to the handle rather than being one solid piece. I suspect this is the direction Richard is taking too.


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## jimi43

matthewwh":2ukuk6wm said:


> Quite right Jim, but on the infills I have worked on the side cheeks are laminated to the handle rather than being one solid piece. I suspect this is the direction Richard is taking too.



My guess too...I just didn't want him gluing things in after such perfection without at least a few eggs for his grandma!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

jim


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## Scouse

It's looking really good Richard, I remain in awe of the skill involved.

On a related topic, did you ever finish this?

halloween-horror-from-hell-t45699-45.html


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## Richard T

Thanks FF. When you are all gated out and you feel like having a go, I strongly recommend making a straight one.  

Yup Jim & Matthew, side cheeks it will have. I will attempt to over stuff but just getting them to a good, tight fit will be an adventure in itself.

Scouse, I still have the shell (the other parts ,as you know, were sprinkled with holy water and buried upside down in unconsecrated ground). I see you you have a P********* ... I don't think you "let the right one in" there ... still, just an opinion.  

Since seeing Konrad's take on the full width rebate the idea of rescuing the RB10 shell has paled somewhat I'm afraid. Maybe I'll mount it on the wall, trophy style, in the new shed.


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## Scouse

Richard T":2n20gw8r said:


> Scouse, I still have the shell (the other parts ,as you know, were sprinkled with holy water and buried upside down in unconsecrated ground). I see you you have a P********* ... I don't think you "let the right one in" there ... still, just an opinion.



I can tell you are just jealous and don't want to admit it in front of everyone, but it's ok, I understand... :lol:


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## uk woodman

looking forward to the next installment  great work
regards Tim


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## Richard T

Thanks Tim - more soon hopefully. I'm being madly busy getting ready for bonfire night at the mo but I have some likely candidates for scales and a front bun that are off - cuts from the .... next plane  

More on both soon ...


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## LENPAM

Your infill is coming along nicely and I won't comment on the metal work other then saying I found it to be learning experience all it's own. It was interesting to hear comments about the rear infill and hopefully you are aware there are several ways to accomplish it,the overstuffed method is probably the hardest to do well and achieve a perfect fit and using the three piece method is a helpful thing sice each side is basically done separately then added to the whole. One piece tote and beds are much harder to orient and will require considerable more time and effort with files and rasps and just plain fitting and refitting till you get it right.

I'm sure by now even the novices know why infills cost what they do the amount of labor is considerable so bravo to your perseverence and keep up the good work and the pictures they are very enjoyable to see. Len


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## Fat ferret

How is this coming along?


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## Richard T

A belated thanks Len and Hi FF .. 

I've been doing the odd bits over the last month including making a lever cap:











I had to make a pair of tongs specially to hold the width of this cap to draw out the neck. If you think the neck is a tad long ... it is.  I drew it over the horn of the anvil when really it needed a narrower fuller tool. I've since made this tool so the next one will hopefully be more controllable. 

Speaking of the next one, as it's Christmas, here's a preview: 











Annddd... the next one  






:deer :ho2 :deer


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## Harbo

Wow that's some cap - have you been forging it.
Lovely work.

By the way Karl Holtey has an article in F&C about hand making his small box mitre.

Rod


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## No skills

Loving the beveled edges on the first new plane =D>


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## jimi43

Good LORD Richard!!!!! :shock: :shock: 

What a lever cap and a half!

The only "chatter" you are gonna get from that mate is from the toolmaking community!!

Bleedin' NORA! :shock: 

At first I thought....steel...what is this man thinking of. Get a couple of cannon to melt down you maniac! :mrgreen: 

Then....I thought..I really...no REALLY like this....in a kind of "De Lorean" way!

I think that once the infill is in...this is going to be one beeeeeutiful little plane!

Bravo dear boy...BRAVO!! =D> =D> =D> 

Jim


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## Richard T

Hi Rod, yup. forged. Though there's ahellofalot of bench work afterwards. Thanks for the Karl H. tip off - though in my cold addled state I can't think for the life of me what F&C might be ... I expect it's obvious but at the mo' all I can think of is Fish and Chips :? 

Thanks No, I laid into them with my curved Dreadnought the draw filed with a saw file before emerying smooth. 

Jim, this is an alternative to casting or milling .... whether it is a viable one, I don't know yet; it takes a very long time. Although if I had them cast I would have to pay someone to do it and then do lots of filing/polishing too, same goes for milling. I think that we just have to concede that lever caps are a lot of work however they are made. 
I like the De Lorean comparison .. but you do know it's going to be hinged in the usual place and not at the top don't you?


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## Harbo

Latest issue of Furniture & Cabinetmaking.

Rod


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## Richard T

Aha! Thanks Rod.


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## custard

jimi43":15f0xnt1 said:


> The only "chatter" you are gonna get from that mate is from the toolmaking community!!




:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Andy RV

Looks good! Speaking of casting, I noticed some smoothing and panel bronze infill castings on ebay the other day if you fancy a try at that approach!


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## jimi43

Andy RV":p4yaltod said:


> Looks good! Speaking of casting, I noticed some smoothing and panel bronze infill castings on ebay the other day if you fancy a try at that approach!



They've been there a while Andy...and one...I think the smoother...even had a lever cap moulding with it...you might ask.

Don't be under any illusion that the casting is the easier or quicker route....the precision required for finishing is very unforgiving and you have to take great care in ensuring that the bed for the iron emerges from the mouth perfectly...the mouth being cut at the same time. This is not as easy as it seems.

Even creating the infill wood blocks in three dimensions is a bit of an art. If it were me...I would try the parallel sided mitre plane casting first. You don't need a cap for that model...you just need to make a bridge out of brass or gunmetal and make a wedge.

I also quite fancy the panel plane...love that style.

Jim


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## Aled Dafis

Richard, I love the new planes!!! Can't wait to see these progressing!!

I actually drew up a panel plane as a 3D CAD exercise a while ago, but never got around to making it...


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## Richard T

Thanks Aled .... parallel sides - a breeze compared to the "boat shaped". Once you have the marking right, the discipline of sawing and filing is quite enjoyable; especially as I have got a side measured, cut and fitted in an afternoon. 
What takes the most time is grinding/draw filing the scale off the hot/black steel sheet. I feel a progression to bronze/01 coming on ... 

You drew it up ? To make it in what material ???


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## Aled Dafis

Yes I can see how it would be easier to mark out and cut, but the time involved would still put me off, I've been spoilt with getting parts water jet cut.

Here are the two planes I drew up a while ago.

The Panel Plane






And the Thumb Plane





I've already pulled down the drawings for the thumb plane, and am halfway to re-modelling the Panel plane in my current CAD software.

Cheers
Aled


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## Harbo

They look very nice Aled

Rod


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## Aled Dafis

Thanks Rod, I've posted them on here before, but it was months, maybe even a year ago. 

I may have a go at the Thumb Plane in the new year, I've not made a plane for a good while!

Cheers
Aled


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## Richard T

Looking very good Aled. Do you still have your sources for bronze and steel? And can you get bronze thin enough for a panel length plane? I have found a place in Brum for bronze but I don't yet know what recipes or gauges they do ... 
I used 4mm thick mild steel for the sides of mine and 5mm for the sole; and the difference in ease of cutting the joints was quite something. I marked and cut one side - 9 dovetails in two hours last time. 
Another time saving wheeze I have employed is a jig for marking the sole pins. Just two boards and a shoulder screwed together at ninety degrees - screws heavily countersunk so I could plane it exactly square - so I can clamp the sole to the upright face in the vice, then clamp the cut side onto the top and score down through the tails with out anything moving. Also I've found that rather than clamp it dead on, to clamp the side a hair's breadth low. this really pulls on tight to the sole - a bit like an offset peg hole in a tenon. 
Then when finishing the pins I cut with the saw short of the inside of the lines but file through to the far side of them. Logic tells me that this would be too much but it isn't. It's the only way it's going to fit something like first time without endless tapping and re filing ... loosing your lines in the process and being likely to over do it in places. Much better and quicker to be right in the first place I've found. 

I don't know what kind of a finish water cutting leaves but don't you have to file to fit afterwards any way? I'm sure I read that Konrad. S does...


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## Aled Dafis

I've never used Bronze, but used to get my Brass from ebay, or from a stockholder in Cardiff - Fromstock. The soles of my planes are from O1 Gauge plate, usually bought from MSC J+L Industrial (and tagged onto a school order to avoid the VAT) Cromwell also have good prices for Gauge Plate.

Yes I can see that when you're in the swing of things that you'd get the cutting done quite efficiently. Bill Carter uses Gauge Plate, and just saws a number of vertical cuts just shy of the line and then takes the remaining "fingers" out with a cold chisel, the Gauge plate is a little more brittle than Mild Steel, so they pop out easily, he then files the cut face back down to the line.

A waterjet cut surface looks as if it were sandblasted and has a slight taper on the edge (1-2deg), I just give the surface a light filing to square the edge. The waterjet only cuts vertically, so I still need to file the dovetail angles on the sole, but that only takes a couple of swipes on each side with a small turnip file. I had my first batch of CNC cut blanks cut on a Lazer machine, but found that the localised heat from the lazer actually hardened the surface to such a degree that a couple of swipes with a file took all the teeth off one edge of a brand new 14" turnip file!! I then turned to water jet cutting...

If you're interested in how I go about working from pre cut blanks, just PM me your email address and I'll send you a copy of the instruction manual I wrote for my Small Shoulder plane kit, it has quite detailed instructions about the dovetailing process.

Cheers
Aled


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## Richard T

I've been neglecting this thread long enough - I've been working on the three planes in fits and starts since new year and have been taking the odd photo along the way so here are things to date. 

I peined up the 2 - 1/4" a while ago having made it its own support around the form.











I ground up a cross pein punch to spread from side to side better.
















I chose a bit of Walnut with an interesting grain for the rear infill ... a bit too interesting in places - this hole got wider and wider but I went on with it in the hope that the handle would be just where it was, and its continuation would not show at the back [-o< I left a "sneck" on the back for ease of getting in and out.






Started to chop out the mortice - was dreading this .. Fitting the handle often ... 






Going down ...











until finally I forstenered through and cleaned it up.






Dispensed with the sneck, but left it long to tap in and lever out.






More later...


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## AndyT

Looking wonderful Richard - I'm admiring your skills and thinking of how good the old guys were making these things for a living!


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## Aled Dafis

Very nice indeed!! Those dovetails cleaned up lovely, great choice of wood too, I used Walnut for my smoother.

Can't wait for the next installement!


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## No skills

High quality work.

=D>


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## jimi43

Things of beauty are worth waiting for.....

And that is one beautiful plane my dear friend!

I'm glad you're paving the way mate....I will be a virtual expert by the time I get up the courage to make my mitre!

I particularly love the walnut...it has a fantastic grain...really interesting and I can't wait to see that grain pop out when the finish is applied.

I am sure that when you next see Mr Carter he will be looking for tips!

Cheers mate and keep 'em coming!

Jimi


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## Richard T

Thanks folks - just had a bath and my hands are the same colour as before ... the only down side of Walnut I've found so far .. 

Got the handle in much better than I expected though there are gaps around the side. I think this is due to me concentrating on the mortise and no so much on the tenon - I must have been more concerned for its handleness than its parallelness. 






The real bum however, is at the front. I just could not get this lined up. :evil: Though it is tight as anything, and a really good fit lower down, there is a gap where it shows. 






The obvious solution to this is to never show it to anyone with the iron out.  

Today I've been working on fitting the back. For some reason this is something I have been really looking forward to ... what is it about those sweeps and the way the wood joins them? Everybody seems to comment on these details. 
I cut the over hang off.






And worked back with paring chisel and gouge, 






before switching to files and emery cloth.






Finally today, I did some origami to make a stencil to mark symmetrical rounds for the corners - nothing too precise, I wanted to do it by eye but with a little help; these things can easily get out of hand like trimming equal amounts from either side of a moustache, you often end up clean shaven. 






I'm getting quite excited about this one now - it's starting to look like a "proper one".  I really hope it stays that way. 
When I have had the practice I will attempt an adjuster. It's not making the adjuster that bothers me as much as fitting it; having made the appropriate wood work to fit it in to. Though steel dovetails are nowhere near as daunting for me as they were, I hope the infilling follows suit
.


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## Richard T

Thanks Jim, 

I may have a small job for you in the near future ... regarding heat treating. Not sure which way I'm going yet though. We must have speaks.


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## jimi43

Hi Richard

Sure thing mate....thick iron..01 steel....780 degree sort of thing?

Regarding the gap...I bet you anything you like those sort of things happened all the time in production.

If it were mine I would get either a piece of veneer that thick or cut some exactly right and wedge/glue it in place and then par it off.

There is no way you will even notice it once it's finished and waxed.

You'll know it's there but you'll get over it (one day!) :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Richard T

Yup Jim, exactly that sort of thing. :wink: 

I don't know about filling the gap - I might leave it as a reminder. What really peeves me is that I can't think how it happened; and I was there doing it. #-o Though I think I will consult the oracle again before I rush into getting me a mortiser. I do enjoy cutting big mortises by hand but as I have no more room for timber frames I haven't been getting the practice. 
Another thing I won't do again is scribe down too far for the mortise. That left hand line is still there past the curve. I realised before I scribed the right but ... hey ho. :roll:


----------



## Scouse

Absolutely stunning Richard; once again I find myself completely in awe of the skill and quality of work you demonstrate with your plane making.

And yes...



Richard T":1678mtiv said:


> I've been neglecting this thread long enough



You have. Sit on the naughty step and think about what you've done. Don't let it happen again! :wink: :mrgreen: 

El.


----------



## No skills

The 'gap' area looks like the perfect place for a small brass plate with the toolmakers mark/logo.


----------



## Richard T

Hey Mr. Skills, it's not _that_ wide! :mrgreen: It's just less than a mm I'd say. My stamp/logo would have to be purty small ....  

Thanks El. I will get me to the naughty step as soon as I have finished this fag behind the bike shed. 
I might even dare to make a start on narrowing the front infill to closer - to - fit. The first attempt at the back infill shrunk too much after I had started to fit it and I had to start again so I'm a bit wary about it. Much to Mrs Doyle's joy I have moved the Walnut stash into the living room since and we have had the fire lit a few times in the last fortnight, so should be fine by now. 

I've found a small foundry up close to the jewellery quarter in town who specialise in all things small and bronze. I will get in contact with them after the hols to talk turkey about gunmetal, patterns and prices re lever caps.


----------



## AndyT

Richard T":5odnwjki said:


> I've found a small foundry up close to the jewellery quarter in town who specialise in all things small and bronze. I will get in contact with them after the hols to talk turkey about gunmetal, patterns and prices re lever caps.



I know I seem to have mentioned them rather often lately, but I do feel bound to add that Bristol Design sell (and do still sell) castings for infill planes, and also have in stock bronze lever caps and a huge range of new old stock irons. There can't be many places that do!
No proper web presence, but phoneable on 0117 929 1740.


----------



## Richard T

Thanks for the reminder Andy. 
I did not know they stocked old stock irons ... I wonder if there are any parallels. [-o<


----------



## jimi43

Richard T":10rkwayl said:


> Thanks for the reminder Andy.
> I did not know they stocked old stock irons ... I wonder if there are any parallels. [-o<



Hi Richard

If you make the iron out of 01 stock (you probably have some).....form it soft and drop it over to me in the post and I will do a firing run in the kiln.

I want to make a small mitre iron and I now have some 4mm stock that I think would probably be just thick enough! :mrgreen: 

Turn-around should be a couple of days if we time it right..... 

PM me.

Jim


----------



## shim20

crickey alot of work has gone into these, and they look awsome, keep up the good work


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Shim. You're right about a lot of work; never, in the field of human cornflakes, has so much filing been done by so few for so many hours. Or something.  

Jim - you have a PM.


----------



## No skills

On the square bit silly!

I hope you are putting your own 'stamp' on these tools, dont want the Alf's and Jim's (and Andy' etc) of the far future world puzzeling too much over who made them  if you havent a logo may I suggest something with a rectangular monument style about it :lol: 

Now wheres that powerfile gone......


----------



## Richard T

Aha! Yes. That's a good idea - I could adjust the thickness of the brass to fill future gaps. Don't think I could bring myself to create a gap if I ever get it right though. 8) This could puzzle future historians too. 

I have started to initial and number them, this being #5, just by scribing but I am still pondering stamp v engraving; on the whole I think I would like to engrave. I'm also playing about with the idea of inlet decoration, if not labelling, with brass or bronze. 

More on this when I have a bash at it - prob'ly with the emphasis on "more on" (homer)


----------



## Beachcricket

I love this thread. When I had a go at this I made a total mess of the dovetails.

Great work.


----------

