# Metalworking lathe buying advice



## guineafowl21

In the process of doing up woodworking machines, and doing other general stuff eg car repairs, I’ve often thought ‘a lathe could do that’. Things like making up bushings and spacers, replacing threaded parts, making handles, custom BSW bolts to replace that one that’s missing...

I’ve thought up some requirements:

- Threadcutting, imperial and metric.
- Centre height doesn’t need to be huge, but it would nice to be able to skim brake drums/discs (not essential).
- Three or single phase.
- I prefer the older heavy stuff to modern.
- Ability to do the odd horizontal milling job, like altering a gib to fit a T slot.
- A nice selection of accessories and tools, to save me trying to find them myself, not knowing whether it will fit.
- A coolant pump, having seen the difference it makes to drilling steel.
- budget could stretch to perhaps £1200, although I have a couple of spindle moulders for sale, so maybe more.

I guess the Myford/Boxford etc offerings would do most of that, but any recommendations/tips/caveats would be welcome.


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## Gordon Tarling

I don't think either a Myford or a Boxford is going to be large enough to allow you to skim brake drums/disks, for that, you're going to need the ability to swing at least 12", maybe more. I'm not terribly au fait with the larger lathes, but some of the offerings by Harrison, Colchester, Hardinge etc. are more likely to meet your needs - do some trawling of EvilBay to see what might work for you. I hasten to add that lathes of this size are very large and heavy lumps of metal, so I hope your workshop has a strong floor!

G.


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## porker

I have a Myford Super 7 and its a great lathe but not big enough to do some of the things you mention (like skimming discs and drums). It is really a model makers lathe and although I love mine they command a lot of money for what they are. I think the primary reason for this is that they are small enough to be moved around with two people lifting. (In fact I have moved mine on my own before). You may be wanting something larger.

Threadcutting is easiest with a threadcutting gearbox but as you probably know can also be acheived using threadcutting gears. Conversion between metric and imperial can be acheived using a conversion gear (often 127 tooth). You of course need a lathe with threadcutting capability which most but the oldest have.

I have milled on my Myford but it was a little frustrating except for small jobs (I eventually bought a Bridgeport mill to do the milling)

Tooling can easily run to as much if not more cost that the original machine so the more you can get with the lathe the better. I have built up my collection of tooling over the years but wouldn't want to add up the cost and theres plenty I would still like!

Coolant depends what you are doing. I wouldn't bother with coolant on my Myford preferring to dab with a brush if I have to.

Lathe prices have gone mad in the last few years and your budget would have esily bought you a good example but will be more difficult now. Not saying they aren't out there but you may be looking for some time.

Watch out for tarted up worn out examples. Know what to look for when looking at a lathe. A dirty old machine with no paint doesn't mean it is worse than one with a paint job. Depends on the wear.

Good luck. Its another slippery slope!!


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## porker

Oh yes and consider transport costs. When I had to move my Bridgeport (1 ton) I found it was going to be expensive. My house movers did it in the end telling me they had moved grand pianos etc. Just to say they learned a lesson and won't be moving another Bridgeport in a hurry


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## guineafowl21

Ok, thanks all. It looks like brake drums/discs will put me in a much larger category of machine, so I could ditch that requirement. Having said that, I might get more machine for the money, once it’s out of the hobby/model market.

There’s a Denford Viceroy on sale on *bay, auction almost finished. Looks ideal but not much tooling.


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## RichardG

If you have the space and means to move, larger lathes are often significantly cheaper than the smaller “model making“ size lathes. There’s a Colchester Bantam on Gumtree for £900 but it’s down in Bedford….


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## clogs

to go the big route with all the thread cutting would be something along the lines of a Colchester student.....
Myford, Boxfordare great little lathes but u can soon reach the limits of them....they are well made toys by comparrison to their bigger brothers.....
I have both of the above....anything decent will be over £2,000 now Student wise and a Myford with a thread cutting g/box wont be to far away on cost.....BUT remember u can always get ur money back......
(there are other makes, keep away from Chinese machines if poss, u'll always loose money, u'll see Warco machines adverised but they are just up market Chinese cheese, I was lucky and escaped buying one) 
tooling can be an horrendus cost.....it suprising how u just have to have this n that to get a job done.....
U really need to keep em busy to justify the cost...or just not worry about the money spent.....
BUT the money spent is better than it being in the bank.....
before I bought all my machines I had a working but retired engineer able to carry out what work I wanted for a fair price and in a reasonable time.....when he died I had to tool up.....isther one near u....?
Along with buying the machines u have to budget for increase in elec wants both power n lighting....
plus in the winter n damp days the machines will want protection from rust / condensation.....it does really add up....

The best way forward is not to be in a rush, perhaps join a model eng club, modellenineering forum and look regular at 
homeworkshop.org.uk.....it's a specialised machine n tool selling site....mostly hobbyist to hobbyist but there are a few robbers that are dealers praying on the unwary......it'll take a little time to recognise them but less than 10mins a day is all u need....
Other than that a complete workshop that gets sold off when somebody passes on woud be a good place to buy..
that way u will get the tooling as well....
transport, well u can hire a Transit twin wheeler with a tail lift for not a lot of money.....make a day of it for you and a friend.....
the biggest prob is getting into the shed around the back.....even moving a little one really requires a good solid path....

What ever anyone says dont go skimming disc's drums on a normal lathe...I can tell u from first hand exp it doesnt work properly.....
I rebuild antique cars, usually pre 1920, motorcycles n tractors of the same ilk....their brakes are always in desperate need of a tickle....
so with the disapointment of using a lathe I went and bought one of these....very expensive but not so cost effective but I had to have one to do the job properly...generally not for sale in the UK, mine came from the States.......




I also bought the brake shoe skimmer as well, not shown...(it machines the newly fitted linings to the diameter of the machined brake drums......cant say how much as the wife reads my posts....hahaha...

A little better prices are for 3phase machines but everyone knows the electronic voltage conv kits available...if u get lucky u may just find one with the electrickery already installed.... 
so the best advice is to wait n look around and have the cash in ur pocket just in case one turns up....facebook is another good place to look....
wish u luck.....


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## Fergie 307

Harrison 140 will do what you want. Great machine and you will pay anything between £1,000 for one in good working order but cosmetically challenged, to maybe £3000 for a minter with all the accessories. Only issue will be that it weighs 3/4 of a ton and needs about 6 x 3 foot of floor space. Just dont expect to do anything heavy on a small lathe like a Myford 7, you will just find it frustrating.


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## DiyAddict

On lathes dot co dot uk, there's a useful section on buying a used lathe that saved me from buying a real dog. I hunted for a used Bantam or 140 for over a year, but every one I tried was worn out. Lockdown had just started and prices went stratospheric. There's no doubt that the larger Colchester/Harrisons represent better value for money if you have the space, but industrial machines that have been used every day for 50 years with minimal care taken in maintenance can have so much wear that they're demoralizing, if not impossible to use.

in the end I doubled my budget and went for a used Myford 254s that I love, and have never looked back. I've done many milling jobs on it - no problem if you have a bit of patience - but it doesn't have a gap bed so you'd have to make an attachment if you want to skim brake disks. 

One last thing - if a listing says it's an ex-college or ex-school machine, take it with a very large pinch of salt!


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## Trextr7monkey

Have a look at the Chester 3 in one compact and capable, light milling only. You get a lot of machine for your money. Much maligned by connoisseurs of antique machinery but we have turned out a lot of precise work over the years, no pun intended


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## Spectric

guineafowl21 said:


> but it would nice to be able to skim brake drums/discs (not essential).


Depends what age of vehicles you want to work on, with modern stuff the disc and drums are just service items so replaced and not enough meat to skim but if into classic and such there is some potential but not worth taking it into consideration buying a lathe. You will be better of getting a decent smaller lathe with the tooling and gears for screw cutting rather than going for size.


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## guineafowl21

Looks like the consensus is to ditch the brake skimming idea. Fine by me - I don’t have the time, budget or patience to work on classic cars. You need all three.

There’s a tri-lever Boxford on the bay, crappy stand but loads of tooling...


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## Fergie 307

DiyAddict said:


> On lathes dot co dot uk, there's a useful section on buying a used lathe that saved me from buying a real dog. I hunted for a used Bantam or 140 for over a year, but every one I tried was worn out. Lockdown had just started and prices went stratospheric. There's no doubt that the larger Colchester/Harrisons represent better value for money if you have the space, but industrial machines that have been used every day for 50 years with minimal care taken in maintenance can have so much wear that they're demoralizing, if not impossible to use.
> 
> in the end I doubled my budget and went for a used Myford 254s that I love, and have never looked back. I've done many milling jobs on it - no problem if you have a bit of patience - but it doesn't have a gap bed so you'd have to make an attachment if you want to skim brake disks.
> 
> One last thing - if a listing says it's an ex-college or ex-school machine, take it with a very large pinch of salt!


Not sure I would describe a 140 as a large industrial lathe, they were largely sold as training machines. Slow speed and 1.5hp motor is a good clue you are looking at one aimed originally at the training market. I well recall my dad, as a lifelong machine shop man, looking over my Harrison L5A (broadly speaking the imperial version of the 140). His verdict, " nice toy", which to his eyes it was having spent his working life with machines many times the size.


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## DiyAddict

Fergie 307 said:


> Not sure I would describe a 140 as a large industrial lathe,


Agreed - sorry if I gave that impression. Maybe I was unlucky, but every 140 or Bantam I tried needed a bed/cross slide regrind, so a lot of those machines must have had a lot of use. My dad was also a machine shop man, working as toolmaker at Cincinnati and Smart & Brown on some huge machines. His personal lathe was a Raglan LittleJohn - a capable machine, but not even in the 140/Bantam league. He had it scraped in and running as smooth as silk though. I'd love to know what machine he'd have chosen if my mum had let him!

I think that for restoring woodworking machines and some classic car work, you're on the border line of large hobbyist/small industrial machines as a minimum size. Favouring 'old iron' over the Chinese offerings, I found myself in the same position. But you don't want to end up restoring a lathe on top of the other stuff. If you go down the small industrial route, then you definitely need someone knowledgeable to help you view. 

There's a Myford 254+ on Ebay at the moment complete with all the accessories. I'd guess 1980's or 90's , which makes it quite 'modern', and being a high end hobbyist machine, is likely to have had minimal use. It's also compatible with accessories for other Myford lathes so accessories are relatively cheap compared to Boxford/Denford, and it's designed to carry out small milling operations, with its flat bed and tee-slotted cross slide. Well above your initial budget, but worth a cheeky offer.

Ps Fergie - we used to live 3 miles from you, in Potton. Our dads would have had much to talk about!


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## DiyAddict

guineafowl21 said:


> - A coolant pump, having seen the difference it makes to drilling steel.


Not so important on a lathe, which is a single-point cutting machine. In any case it's cheap and easy to retrofit one. I wouldn't let this criterion constrain your choice.


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## Fergie 307

DiyAddict said:


> Not so important on a lathe, which is a single-point cutting machine. In any case it's cheap and easy to retrofit one. I wouldn't let this criterion constrain your choice.


I agree, i have the full pump set up but rarely use it. For most jobs you only need to occasinal squirt. I use the plastic squeezy bottles with a spout that the boss gets in her hair dye kits, could have been made for the job.


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## Fergie 307

DiyAddict said:


> Agreed - sorry if I gave that impression. Maybe I was unlucky, but every 140 or Bantam I tried needed a bed/cross slide regrind, so a lot of those machines must have had a lot of use. My dad was also a machine shop man, working as toolmaker at Cincinnati and Smart & Brown on some huge machines. His personal lathe was a Raglan LittleJohn - a capable machine, but not even in the 140/Bantam league. He had it scraped in and running as smooth as silk though. I'd love to know what machine he'd have chosen if my mum had let him!
> 
> I think that for restoring woodworking machines and some classic car work, you're on the border line of large hobbyist/small industrial machines as a minimum size. Favouring 'old iron' over the Chinese offerings, I found myself in the same position. But you don't want to end up restoring a lathe on top of the other stuff. If you go down the small industrial route, then you definitely need someone knowledgeable to help you view.
> 
> There's a Myford 254+ on Ebay at the moment complete with all the accessories. I'd guess 1980's or 90's , which makes it quite 'modern', and being a high end hobbyist machine, is likely to have had minimal use. It's also compatible with accessories for other Myford lathes so accessories are relatively cheap compared to Boxford/Denford, and it's designed to carry out small milling operations, with its flat bed and tee-slotted cross slide. Well above your initial budget, but worth a cheeky offer.
> 
> Ps Fergie - we used to live 3 miles from you, in Potton. Our dads would have had much to talk about!


Indeed they would. Dad worked a lot with Cincinatti tape controlled machines, i think it was when he worked at the Borg Warner gearbox plant in Letchworth. He also worked at a facory in Stevenage, which had been the Vincent motorcycle factory and still held the drawings for the bikes. Think it was Victaulic then. He was involved in making limited runs of spares for the owners club. The machines he used there were mostly big old American machines brought over during the war, Monarch I think. He's 98 now bless him but we went to a show recently where they had a Vincent stand, and believe it or not an old chap there, who must have been in his eighties himself, remembered dealing with Dad back in the day. Small world.


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## Fergie 307

guineafowl21 said:


> Looks like the consensus is to ditch the brake skimming idea. Fine by me - I don’t have the time, budget or patience to work on classic cars. You need all three.
> 
> There’s a tri-lever Boxford on the bay, crappy stand but loads of tooling...


Best advice I can give you is buy the biggest machine you can comfortably accomodate. Most important thing with any lathe is rigidity, and that really does have to do with size. If you get something like a Myford 7 you will find it is a nice machine, excellent for small stuff in brass, alloy and plastics. If you want to make things of any real size in steel or stainless, then it will do it but you will have to take light cuts and it will be very tedious. Boxford made some very nice machines not a lot bigger, if you can find a good one. They use a much wider bed and are much stiffer than a Myford. The Myford machines have a big following and so tend to be massively overpriced for what they are. You will find that most later English industrial machines from Boxford, Harrison etc have induction hardenned beds which hold up pretty well. Personally I would avoid the Chinese machines. Nothing really wrong with them but when you have used a good old American or English machine they just arent in the same league in terms of smoothness or quality.


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## dickm

DiyAddict said:


> Ps Fergie - we used to live 3 miles from you, in Potton. Our dads would have had much to talk about!


I wonder - did either of your Dads own a Super 7, 'cos the one sitting in my workshop came from Potton many years ago!


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## Inspector

I understand the love of old machines and if a good one were available to me I wold have bought one. In my case because the area I lived in had limited industrial manufacturing there were none to be had so I turned (pun intended) to an Asian import, a Grizzly G4003G. It has features you won't have in an old machine like the D1-5 spindle so you can work in either direction without fear of the chuck coming loose and the bore of the spindle is close to 1 5/8"/42mm/ #5 Morse taper. The other upside is they will come with the steady and following rests, faceplate, 3 jaw chuck and 4 jaw independent chuck, quick change tool post and importantly a quick change gearbox and a full set of change gears for imperial and metric threads plus the tools for general use. By removing the gap for the bed you could fit some brake drums and discs if you wanted to. Unless I abuse the beast it will do everything I need it to for as long as I can and beyond. Rule them out if you want to but I think you should consider them.

Pete


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## DiyAddict

dickm said:


> I wonder - did either of your Dads own a Super 7, 'cos the one sitting in my workshop came from Potton many years ago!


Blimey! I know my dad really wanted one but couldn't afford it. He knew a few model engineers locally, so I bet he was aware of yours!


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## DiyAddict

Inspector said:


> Rule them out if you want to but I think you should consider them


There's a lot to be said for going this route - not least the shipping, warranty, availability of spares and the knowledge that they haven't been abused (as well as Inspector's points). In the UK, Warco seems to be the supplier of choice, for their large range and good aftersales reputation. I was very tempted by their GH series. Arceurotrade has a good reputation too, though I think their largest lathe would be a little too small for the OP. You could also consider Chester and Axminster. My personal preference would be for an old English, American or German machine (for reasons already stated by other posts above) but the Chinese lathes have improved in recent years and I know plenty of owners who are very happy with them.


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## DiyAddict

Fergie 307 said:


> The Myford machines have a big following and so tend to be massively overpriced for what they are.


I think Fergie is referring to the smaller Myfords like the Super 7 here, due to their desirability for model engineering. I wouldn't say it's true of the larger ones like the 280 or 254 series, both of which were considerably cheaper than a Boxford of similar spec/vintage when I was purchasing, and have no trouble hogging large amounts of swarf from steel or stainless. That said, I concur wholeheartedly with the rest of his post, especially about going for the largest one you can comfortably accommodate. You'll also find a screwcutting/feeds gearbox and large spindle bore makes life considerably more pleasant.


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## Fergie 307

Myford 7's go for silly money nowadays. I have a pre war Ml 4, still use it a lot for small stuff. Agreed if you need to run the machine in reverse for any reason then you really dont want a screw on chuck, then again most machines manufactured since the late fiftes dont use them. My 1961 Harrison for example uses an L00 taper fit chuck, so can happily run either way. And any decent sized old machine will have a full thread cutting box and power feeds on both axes. They also tend to be proper geared head machines, rather than just having a variable speed motor. Even the imperial machines with a Norton gearbox can cut all the most common metric threads by just changing the wheels. A good one will come with most of the usual accessories, and you can readily source extra bits and pieces through e bay etc. The chucks and such supplied with an older machine are also usually premium quality Pratt or similar as well. A far cry from the cheap stuff you will get thrown in with the Chinese machines. If you look at an old Harrison like mine then you need to consider that new it cost getting on for £4000, you could buy a house for that at the time. Their current models are in the £18000+ bracket for one of a similar size. These were top quality machines made when we were still amongst the best in the world at this. The same applies to the top Amercan brands. You only have to look at the parts count and weight of the modern Chinese stuff to see it is not in the same league. They are not bad machines if you are in that spot between a Myford 7 size machine and the light industrial machines, but if you are looking for something in the 5x20 or bigger class then i cannot understand why you would want to spend £4000 on a new Chinese machine when you could have something like a Colchester chipmaster or Harrison M300 in really nice condition for the same money.


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## DiyAddict

Mmmm...Colchester Chipmaster or Harrison M300.....(dribbles)


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## dickm

Fergie 307 said:


> Myford 7's go for silly money nowadays.


Must remind my daughter and son-in-law of that for when I shuffle off!!


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## TFrench

A denford viceroy is another decent one to look out for. Myfords are ok but there's a big popularity tax on them. You can get some amazing machines for the same or less money.


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## Fergie 307

Definitely agree on the Viceroy. Only thinbg to watch with them and the Boxford machines is that there is quite a variety of specification. They range from very basic machines indeed up to those that have all the bells and whistles. Good quality machines though and not too big. The Viceroys particularly are a doddle to move as they have bar holes through the integral cabinet, like a Harrison L, so very easy to sling.


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## Fergie 307

DiyAddict said:


> Mmmm...Colchester Chipmaster or Harrison M300.....(dribbles)


My favourite is probably still the 140, nice machine with none of the modern electronics to complicate things. They were pretty much the standard machine in schools and so on, my sons school had six of them, all still there as far as I know but not used for years as they are now apparently too dangerous to be used by the kids! I only bought my 5A because its just an imperial version of the same machine and it was in really good condition mechanically. Anyone considering buying a Chipmaster you really do need to see it running and give the speed variator a good workout, these are very expensive to repair if faulty.


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## Fergie 307

dickm said:


> Must remind my daughter and son-in-law of that for when I shuffle off!!


Have a look on e bay, you will be amazed at the prices. Something like a tri lever goes for at least a couple of grand. Nice machines, but thats crazy money.


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## Keith 66

I started out with a Myford Super 7, good little lathe but it was often too small for things i wanted to do. Next came a Bantam 2000, seemed like a bargain but was a bit of a dog, got shot of that & bought a Harrison 140 from the college where i worked. That lathe is a cracker. Dont confuse the 140 with the earlier L5, they look similar but the 140 is very different. The L5 has a tiny 3/4" spindle bore whereas the 140 is 1 3/8" bore, big difference. I was lucky mine came with all its original tooling & then some.
I would not buy a chinese lathe as i have seen too many that were of such poor quality they were not fit for purpose.


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## dickm

Fergie 307 said:


> Have a look on e bay, you will be amazed at the prices. Something like a tri lever goes for at least a couple of grand. Nice machines, but thats crazy money.


Not helpful to me, but should add to the daughters' inheritance!


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## Fergie 307

Keith 66 said:


> I started out with a Myford Super 7, good little lathe but it was often too small for things i wanted to do. Next came a Bantam 2000, seemed like a bargain but was a bit of a dog, got shot of that & bought a Harrison 140 from the college where i worked. That lathe is a cracker. Dont confuse the 140 with the earlier L5, they look similar but the 140 is very different. The L5 has a tiny 3/4" spindle bore whereas the 140 is 1 3/8" bore, big difference. I was lucky mine came with all its original tooling & then some.
> I would not buy a chinese lathe as i have seen too many that were of such poor quality they were not fit for purpose.


Agreed if you buy an earlier one then you want an L5A with the taper chuck mount. That has the same spindle bore and 2000 rpm capability as the 140, and a hardened bed. They are effectively the same machine. The 5a had a facelift to become the 11 inch, only difference being the square head casting. The 140 was then simply a metric version of the 11 inch. All parts are interchangeable, apart from those directly related to the metric or imperial function, so basically leadscrew and associated components, feedscrews etc.


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## guineafowl21

Boxford VSL any good?


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## Daniel2

I will also add, in defence of Chinese machines, that I have a Warco GH1322.
I have had no issues with it, it does everything I ask of it, and is a pleasure to use.
In my opinion it represents extremely good value for the money.


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## dickm

The problem with the Chinese ones seems to be quality control as usual. You CAN get a good one, but they bought one at work years back and it was a disaster. The "OK-ish" ones are the problem; you don't find out what's wrong until too late!


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## Fergie 307

Daniel2 said:


> I will also add, in defence of Chinese machines, that I have a Warco GH1322.
> I have had no issues with it, it does everything I ask of it, and is a pleasure to use.
> In my opinion it represents extremely good value for the money.


In fairness they have improved a lot in recent years. But i havevyet to meet anyone who has used a good quality English or American machine who would say that the Chinese machines compare favourably. My experience having set up a couple for people who were having issues is that the inspection data given with the machine was completely inaccurate. So a good deal of adjustment and general fettling was required to get anywhere near the figures quoted. If you tried to do anything as it was straight out of the crate then you would have bèen wasting your time. One was a Clarke, cant remember the model but one with a built in mill at the back of the bed. Rarely seen such a piece of junk masquerading as a machine tool. The killer was that the spindle wasnt actually parallel to the bed, it was nose down by a few thou. Think he got Machine Mart to take it back. The other one was an Amadeal, again cant remember the model but a bigger machine, something like an 11 inch swing. Very different kettle of fish. That one was nicely machined and finished, but they appeared to have just assembled all the parts in the right order and shipped it. Most basic set up stuff was off. He was finding it turned a taper, this turned out to be because the headstock wasnt correctly aligned. This was quite easily dealt with using adjustments on the machine. Both saddle and cross slides were too loose, again easily adjusted. Final issue was the micrometer dials, one too loose one too tight. These reveal on of the areas where the quality differs. On a quality English machine you find multiple thrust bearings under the handles, and usually multiple adjusters for the dials. Very crude set up on this machine by comparison. Once adjusted up the machine was not bad atall. Usual Chinese machine irritations, poor dials and they all seem to use the same awful feed handles. Also let down a bit by the cabinet which was not as well made as the machine itself, but accurate to .01mm by the time we'd finished with it, which is not too shabby. Realised later that at that time, about four years ago, the Amadeal machines were identical to those sold by Warco, just painted grey and blue instead of green and yellow. Interstingly bought an Amadeal mill myself not long after this and it was exactly the same. Pretty well made but all the adjustments a mile off straight out of the crate.


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## DiyAddict

guineafowl21 said:


> Boxford VSL any good?


By all accounts they are fine, desirable machines, and were on my list when I was looking - a step up from the AUD etc, with a much larger spindle bore. I believe they were developed in several iterations though, so check the bore size, centre height and chuck mount match what you expect. They're relatively uncommon - I never got to see one in the flesh - so certain accessories can be pricey and difficult to source. I would make sure a fixed steady is included, especially if you get the 500 which has a 5" centre height. If you want to do light milling operations , be aware that Boxford vertical slides seem to fetch excessive prices, though you could probably adapt a third party one to fit. I'm pretty sure they accept standard Boxford changewheels for any threads that the gearbox won't include. 

Have you settled on a maximum size yet? If you can fit a Harrison or Colchester in, they would be a better bet, with that all-important caveat: in good condition.


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## DiyAddict

If you're looking at Boxford-size lathes, consider a Raglan 5" with accessories. They are a very fine lathe - super-expensive when new - but tend to be very inexpensive now. Accessories are in the hen's teeth bracket of availability, so avoid ones that come without.


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## Fergie 307

Have to agree that both the Raglan and Boxford VSL are great machines, if you can find a good one. You may well struggle to find one atall, i havent seen either for years. The guy I bought my Myford 4 from had a Raglan as well but had already sold it, both had belonged to his late father. Dont think I've seen one since.


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## guineafowl21

Thanks for all the advice - I’ve got hold of a Boxford VSL. Pics will follow!

I did take on board the suggestions for Chinese machines, as I’m not against them. I learnt how to use a spindle moulder on a Charnwood W030, and didn’t regret buying it. Loads of features for the money - I’d have to spend ten times as much to get an industrial quality machine, new, with that kind of functionality.


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## Fergie 307

Well done finding that, nice machine. Look forward to the pics


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## DiyAddict

You are going to have some fun!! And yes, don't forget to post some pics. Good work.


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## guineafowl21

Here it is, installed in a nook with shelf for bits and overhead light:






I’ve made a few things - brass bush for the spindle moulder, turned down a spare bolt to size, cut a BSW thread, and made a thick washer for it, and a prototype quick change handle for the toolpost:





The toolpost handle is a bit rough - I think the insert was for aluminium, and blunt. Got some proper inserts now.


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## TFrench

Looks great to me! I've just bought a little lathe for my home workshop - it really annoys me to have to break the flow of a project to go to work to use it. I use the lathes more than almost any onther machine tool in the shop.


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## DiyAddict

Very nice, thanks for posting the pics, and nice to see you've already put it to work!

There's a bit of a learning curve associated with insert tools. Carbide inserts tend to be blunt for steel, and sharper for aluminium. They tend to chip rather than wear in lathe use, but the chips can be tiny and aren't always obvious. They're also designed for high speed and deep cuts relative to HSS. Some people say that for smallish lathes, HSS is a better choice, or that inserts designed for aluminium are more suitable for cutting steel. But I use them extensively on my 254s, which is a similar size. Reducing the feed rate can improve the finish.

It's worth looking up Blondihacks' Youtube videos - she has a very good 'starting out' series, one of which is devoted to tool choice.


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## Fergie 307

Nice looking old machine. If you want to work with aluminium the most important thing is to use a lubricant to stop the tool tip getting fouled. Paraffin is the best thing to use. Use the power feed where you can for finishing.


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## clogs

u bought the lathe, now u need to start saving for the tooling.....hahaha....
my tooling is worth more than the 2 lathes I have.....
def HSS for Brass/Bronze and ally......
from "diyaddict" with carbide, big bites at a high feed rate n no coolant is what they like....proff's get the swarf comming off BLUE....u def won't be doing that......Carbide come's into it's own with very diff metals like hardend St/Steel.... even crappy cast iron has hard spots....
I have a good seletion of carbide tools mostly with changeable tip's...(indexable).....
HSS is really cheap if u buy blanks and grind them ur'self, it's not a black art really....better if u can start with HSS plus cobalt, 5%...they'll do all u want.....
actually the same with drills....
what ever anyone says, parting off is a BLACK art to get it right everytime.....I've used carbide for that but gone back to HSS with cobalt again......

now u'll need a decent bench grinder...u can use the grey stones on HSS but everyone says u need white wheels to finish, I dont bother, anything special I finish with a hand held diamond stick....oh, green wheels or diamond for carbide.....
I can see the money disapearing already...hahaha....
I got lucky and bought a slow speed proff bench grinder....this is parked between my lathes and mills and only used for that tooling...I do have other grinders for sharpening drills plus another for donkey work........
dont bother with those brazed carbide sets off ebay etc....unless u can/have the kit to reshape them...
there is another good tool I'd be lost without is the diamond tool from Eccentric engineering, made in OZz but sold in the UK....u dont need their grinding tool....works very well, u dont need coolant with it.... 
u'll need to think about cutting metal....heard good results from Lidil/Aldi, they sell a small metal cutting bandsaw, made in Germany......
lastley join the "model engineering forum...loads'a knowlege there....ideal for small lathe owners.....
have fun.....


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## guineafowl21

I had another go at the toolpost handle - certainly a deep cut and slow feed seemed to help. I did get lots of long, blue ‘stringy bastads’ coming off. (I’ve been watching Doubleboost).

For sharpening the HSS I have a Wolf bench grinder or a Tormek T7 which should do the trick.


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## DiyAddict

I love watching Doubleboost - very skilled, modest and funny. I've learned so much from him.


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## Daniel2

DiyAddict said:


> I love watching Doubleboost - very skilled, modest and funny. I've learned so much from him.



He's an active member over on the mig welding forum.


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## guineafowl21

I have some questions about screwcutting. For smaller, and metric, threads, I tend to use taps and dies. I understand the tapping drill size needed for internal threads, but for external threads, what size do I turn the piece down to?

For example, for M6 should it be 6.00mm? It always seems very tight.





For Whitworth external threads, again which is the diameter to turn the piece to?:


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## J-G

guineafowl21 said:


> I have some questions about screwcutting. For smaller, and metric, threads, I tend to use taps and dies. I understand the tapping drill size needed for internal threads, but for external threads, what size do I turn the piece down to?
> 
> For example, for M6 should it be 6.00mm? It always seems very tight.


That really depends upon what you want the finished thread to look like.
Personally I tend to prepare the OD with a tolerance of -0.0 +0.05 mm since this should always give me a full form thread.

The most important dimension for any thread is the 'pitch' or 'effective' diameter which, in the case of M6 is between 5.279 & 5.35mm which is usually controlled by adjusting a split Die but if you are screw-cutting then it's just a matter of adjusting the depth of cut.

If the OD is smaller than the nominal dia. but the pitch dia. is correct then the width of the flat at the crest will simply be wider than normal.


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## Fergie 307

J-G is spot on, use a split die then you can find tune the size. And always buy good taps and dies in hss. The kits you get tend to be rubbish. Tracey tools is a good source of quality taps and dies at good prices. For internal threads always use a first and second or finish tap. So the first one has a pronounced taper so it leads in well, and cuts a rough thread. The finish tap does what it says and brings it to final size. This avoids tearing and ensures you get a nice clean thread, especially important the bigger the thread, or the finer the pitch. And make sure you use an appropriate tapping fluid if necessary.
so going back to your original question as J-G says you want to start out with your bar a gnats oversize to ensure you get a full thread.


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## clogs

I make quite a few specials, nuts and bolts.....Brass n Stainless.....upto 35mm dia.....
I screw cut to "almost there" then use a good qual split die to finish off....
Biggest failure of diy threading is getting the die the correct way and useing a decent cutting lube....even a better qual die holder makes a difference......
I like old Brit and American makes....
Over the years have found a Rocol thread cutting drip bottle the most economic for hand threading...even smells nice....
I find it quite a work out cutting a fresh thread on anything over 25mmm/1inch now.....just getting old.....
one of my bigger tap wrenches....the smaller one is for upto 8-10mm.....ps bought it like that from a car boot....


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## guineafowl21

Thanks. I’ll get some decent dies. I have cut plenty of threads before, but never on something I’ve made myself.

So if I can’t test the fit of the thread during cutting, I’m aiming for the effective diameter as a minimum size.


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## deema

Take a look at Machinery Handbook, there is a free copy online, or just buy a copy. You will only ever need one edition; they bring out a new one every year. It covers just about everything you will ever want to know.
I cut the outside diameter close to bottom limit (minimum diameter) so that I don’t end up with the nut thread riding on the peaks. In most cases for my own stuff, I cut the thread to match a nut, rather than cutting to PCD (lazy I know, but I don’t think I’m alone) and it’s sooooo easy to cut the thread too deep due to it catching in the peak.


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## J-G

deema said:


> I cut the outside diameter close to bottom limit (minimum diameter) so that I don’t end up with the nut thread riding on the peaks. In most cases for my own stuff, I cut the thread to match a nut, rather than cutting to PCD (lazy I know, but I don’t think I’m alone) and it’s sooooo easy to cut the thread too deep due to it catching in the peak.


If the 'Nut' has finally been cut with a 'Plug' Tap and the 'Bolt' cut with a solid Die, then there is no chance that the thread will be 'riding on the peaks'. Starting with an under-size bar could increase the chance of cutting a 'drunken' thread higher and they are a nightmare!

For external threads I have a habit of using a split Die at maximum opening as a first cut and finish with a solid Die -- and I'll agree with @clogs in regard to using a quality die-stock, making sure it is free of swarf and supported by the tail-stock to make sure that the Die is held perpendicular to the axis.

Matching to a nut is the easiest way of measuring an external thread of course and in general is as close as you need to be. In the aircraft industry, press-tools and measuring instruments of course there may be a need for precision which can only be achieved by measuring with the 'three-wire' method but for the home workshop....


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## guineafowl21

Any recommendations for a good metal supplier? I tried Metals4U, who took a week to post my order. Note £16 delivery charge.

I can’t imagine how you can switch off the lights and lock the doors to your business on a Friday evening, with an order from the previous Monday morning still unprocessed.


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## chaoticbob

You could try The Multi Metal Shop - they're new boys on the block and are currently (or were fortnight ago at least) offering free UK mainland delivery as an introductory offer. I recently bought 300mm of 1.75 inch brass bar from them - £44 delivered, order placed 10th Aug, despatched RM 48 tracked on the 12th, arrived on the 14th. Metals4U would have charged £85 for a 250mm length of the same with delivery. So I was happy with that.
Bob.


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## guineafowl21

chaoticbob said:


> You could try The Multi Metal Shop - they're new boys on the block and are currently (or were fortnight ago at least) offering free UK mainland delivery as an introductory offer. I recently bought 300mm of 1.75 inch brass bar from them - £44 delivered, order placed 10th Aug, despatched RM 48 tracked on the 12th, arrived on the 14th. Metals4U would have charged £85 for a 250mm length of the same with delivery. So I was happy with that.
> Bob.


Thanks, I’ll give them a try.


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