# Hinge & box question



## Pvt_Ryan (8 Dec 2010)

I was thinking of doing a walnut cross-stitching box for the missus as an xmas present. 

I have 3 questions:
1) Is possible to do a hinge like the one attached (so the hinge is hidden and the box looks square & tight when closed)? Hinge should open to 90 degrees.
2) If so which if any edges do i need to round off?
3) I was thinking of a thickness of ~9-12mm for the sides is that thick enough to be "solid" & robust. (My plank is 25mm sawn)

Thanks

Ryan


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Dec 2010)

I don't think you'd have enough strength in those "ears" on the piece on the left. It would probably be better to use some sort of hinges that mount internally. This would also allow the door to open out and away from the case.

As to what you would need to remove to make that open, you could actually sort it out with SketchUp. You'll either need to remove the edge of the door or you'll have to remove some of the side to allow the door to sweep through. Obviously anything you remove will undo your desire to make it look like there's no door.


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## MickCheese (8 Dec 2010)

Have a look here for some really nice jewellery box hardware.

for-sale-jewelry-box-hardware-t44885.html

Mick


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## MickCheese (8 Dec 2010)

Or Here

topic37875.html

Mick


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## xy mosian (8 Dec 2010)

I wonder if something like these might work:-

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cabinet-hardw ... es---brass

xy


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## Pvt_Ryan (8 Dec 2010)

I was trying for a concealed wooden hinge. I'll upload a more complete sketchup in a bit. so you can see the end design.


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## Pvt_Ryan (8 Dec 2010)

Here is a better pic


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Dec 2010)

So now what I see is the door trapped between the top and bottom. I think that is much different than what you first drew. Now what you have is not really all that unusual. A pin inserted top and bottom in the door and bushing in the top and bottom panels to prevent wear and you should be just fine. Considering how the door will open, you'll need to relieve the vertical edges on the back to allow the door to open but being on the back, it shouldn't be that noticeable.


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## Pvt_Ryan (9 Dec 2010)

Here is my most up-to-date Sketch.

Do you think 12.5mm Sawn will be thick enough once planed for all of this or should I consider 18-25mm sawn? 
My plank are 25mm thick so if 12.5mm sawn is good enough I can use less of my plank.. 

I do want a very solid box but not stupidly heavy, I am pretty much decided on walnut for the whole thing.


Also is it possible to dovetail end grain into long grain? or is that just asking for trouble?


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## SketchUp Guru (9 Dec 2010)

How tall is this thing going to be? Maybe you could upload your model to the 3D Warehouse so it can be downloaded.

I think 12.5mm might be a bit thin on the door in the area of the hinge. You could thicken just that area, though. Leave the rest thinner. Be aware that with seasonal changes in humidity solid wood will move. It'll be very difficult to keep those doors straight and flat. You'd be better off to use either plywood or MDF with a nice veneer on it.

As to your dovetail question. Yes. You are inviting all sorts of trouble. You'll have short grain on one half of the joint which translates to little strength. Seasonal changes in humidity causes wood to expand and contract mostly across the grain. There's much less expansion.contraction along the grain, a cross grain joint as you propose will try to restrain one piece. Over time it will destroy itself.


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## Pvt_Ryan (9 Dec 2010)

Dave R":26ajkn9l said:


> How tall is this thing going to be? Maybe you could upload your model to the 3D Warehouse so it can be downloaded.
> I think 12.5mm might be a bit thin on the door in the area of the hinge. You could thicken just that area, though. Leave the rest thinner. Be aware that with seasonal changes in humidity solid wood will move. It'll be very difficult to keep those doors straight and flat. You'd be better off to use either plywood or MDF with a nice veneer on it.



Good point. Might use metal hinges then, just thought wooden ones would be nicer (and cheaper).



Dave R":26ajkn9l said:


> As to your dovetail question. Yes. You are inviting all sorts of trouble. You'll have short grain on one half of the joint which translates to little strength. Seasonal changes in humidity causes wood to expand and contract mostly across the grain. There's much less expansion.contraction along the grain, a cross grain joint as you propose will try to restrain one piece. Over time it will destroy itself.



Thought as much.

http://ninet.org/woodwork/sketchup/cross-stitchbox.skp
Be aware this is very much a WIP so not all parts are done yet, noteably the doors on the roof aren't the correct thickness.


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## SketchUp Guru (9 Dec 2010)

Even with metal hinges, you should give some consideration to how the doors will be kept flat. Otherwise I think you'll find it gets to looking all catty wompus. (murriken term  )

Thanks for posting the model. I'm curious how you're drawing the parts to end up with so many exposed back faces (the blue ones). It would be expected in the lid because those parts have no thickness but you shouldn't have them in the 3D parts. And you would be wise to use components instead of groups..


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## Pvt_Ryan (9 Dec 2010)

The exposed backs are just where I have created the faces, deleted them and then recreated. I don't start from scratch, i just evolve the model.

I'll look into the components, but tbh I haven't really spent a lot of time in sketchup, so i just use what I know. 

Ryan


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## SketchUp Guru (9 Dec 2010)

Just trying to help you get better but perhaps I've over stepped my bounds.


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## Pvt_Ryan (9 Dec 2010)

That wasn't meant as a reprimand, I was simply stating I hadn't used components because I didn't know what they were for and groups did what I wanted so I never had a reason to look. So please don't take offence.


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## SketchUp Guru (9 Dec 2010)

No, no. I wasn't offended. I just didn't want to offend you.


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## Pvt_Ryan (9 Dec 2010)

Dave R":1vkn7eti said:


> No, no. I wasn't offended. I just didn't want to offend you.



lol.. First person to actually offend me will get £20 worth of drink!!


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## SketchUp Guru (9 Dec 2010)

Promise? :lol:


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## Pvt_Ryan (13 Dec 2010)

A bit more progress on the design.

I've updated the model as well.. same link as before
http://ninet.org/woodwork/sketchup/cross-stitchbox.skp


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## SketchUp Guru (13 Dec 2010)

It's coming along.

We should look at some modeling techniques to make your life easier. :wink:


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## Pvt_Ryan (13 Dec 2010)

Feel free to share your tips..


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## SketchUp Guru (13 Dec 2010)

Until we can do some one-on-one, take a look at the videos here and here. They are specifically intended as tutorials but rather demonstrations of workflow. Hopefully they'll give you some ideas.


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