# Best Stanley Vintage Brace - Help Please



## Richard8689 (16 Dec 2015)

I am new to woodworking and want to use as many vintage tools as possible

I hope to buy quality tools that are no longer available and am presently looking for Stanley braces (I have chosen Stanley partly because they are widely available so spares should not be a problem)

I intend to buy a few 8", 10" ratchet/non ratchet etc, what selection would members advise?

Can I also ask which models are the finest quality eg 73, 144, 945, 81, 78?

I will probably buy from eBay unless members sell privately on this forum

Thanks for any help


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## bugbear (16 Dec 2015)

Richard8689":3mggi8xp said:


> I am new to woodworking and want to use as many vintage tools as possible
> 
> I hope to buy quality tools that are no longer available and am presently looking for Stanley braces (I have chosen Stanley partly because they are widely available so spares should not be a problem)
> 
> ...



I don't think you'll ever need spares for a brace - don't worry about it.

BugBear


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## AndyT (16 Dec 2015)

I can personally recommend the 144 as being a very good user, though I don't have any other Stanley braces to compare it with. It has good bearings, a nice positive ratchet and best of all a four jaw chuck which grips tapered end bits and round bits equally well. And in my case, all the original plating and varnish....


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## ED65 (16 Dec 2015)

Richard8689":38oc9jh7 said:


> I am new to woodworking and want to use as many vintage tools as possible


Sound plan 

Had you thought which way you want to go on hand planes, woodies or metal? Maybe a mix of both? Great value to be had either way, but woodies are generally the cheapest entrée to hand planing as there are many jacks and fore planes out there for under a tenner. And coffin smoothers are regularly to be had for less than the cost of what a coffee costs these days!



Richard8689":38oc9jh7 said:


> I will probably buy from eBay unless members sell privately on this forum


eBay can be an okay source, but I'd also recommend popping on to Gumtree on a regular basis, see what's on offer within driving distance. Prices are usually lower and because you'll be picking up in person you don't have to worry about being gouged on postage.

I think it's too late in the year to take advantage of it in 2015 but car boots are a fabulous source for vintage kit, sometimes at rock-bottom prices compared to eBay. There are numerous ones all around the country and buying this way has the obvious advantage that you can view and handle the tools in person, rather than keeping your fingers crossed going on photos and (sometimes deliberately) misleading item descriptions. I've been stung a few times buying from eBay and their dispute system is a joke, so I'm wary of buying tools that way.


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## Mike.S (16 Dec 2015)

And to help you on the slippery slope of acquiring tools  , there's an excellent series of articles here about buying, restoring and using braces.


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## bugbear (16 Dec 2015)

Mike.S":3uj7g4mc said:


> And to help you on the slippery slope of acquiring tools  , there's an excellent series of articles here about buying, restoring and using braces.



Nice article! It appears I've never _fully_ renovated a tool in my life.  

BugBear


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## D_W (16 Dec 2015)

bugbear":268ndrkf said:


> Mike.S":268ndrkf said:
> 
> 
> > And to help you on the slippery slope of acquiring tools  , there's an excellent series of articles here about buying, restoring and using braces.
> ...



Drills and braces seem to be something where it's OK to completely strip them and repaint or replate. I guess. 

I've never done anything to a brace but lubricate the chuck.


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## D_W (16 Dec 2015)

Richard8689":gik9eylw said:


> I am new to woodworking and want to use as many vintage tools as possible
> 
> I hope to buy quality tools that are no longer available and am presently looking for Stanley braces (I have chosen Stanley partly because they are widely available so spares should not be a problem)
> 
> ...



I don't know what's sold generally in the UK, but the north brothers braces here are highly acclaimed, and the post-north bros stanley braces are fine. 

I've had plenty of "undesirable" according to tool bloggers (braces) and as long as the chucks work and the top pad still works freely, I can hardly tell what the big deal is about one brace vs. another.

My advice is to get one or two, use them and then see if you need anything else. I can't recall ever using the ratchet function on a brace for woodworking, but admittedly, if the work is heavy or in a restricted spot, I look for an electric drill.


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## ED65 (16 Dec 2015)

bugbear":2e4qra3c said:


> Nice article! It appears I've never _fully_ renovated a tool in my life.


I think it's safe to say few of us have!



D_W":2e4qra3c said:


> Drills and braces seem to be something where it's OK to completely strip them and repaint or replate. I guess.


Personally I think that's standard with any tool, all it takes is a new owner obsessive enough to go the whole hog. Seen some wonderful full restoration jobs done on planes that were a hunk of rust to begin with, taken to a condition clearly better than new.


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## D_W (16 Dec 2015)

I don't disagree on the restoration. If it's done well, it does look nice (I'm not a tool collector hoping to find a fresh in the box unused plane with bright finish and no rust, so I don't carry the fright that such people do about tools that aren't original). The market for tools gets to decide what it wants, and a lot of those refurbished tools bring more money than mediocre condition original tools - by a mile.


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## Vann (16 Dec 2015)

Richard8689":13ylr2w1 said:


> Can I also ask which models are the finest quality eg 73, 144, 945, 81, 78?


North Bros _Yankee_ No.2100 (also made by Stanley after they bought out North Bros.)

These are probably the best made braces ever. But of course they're very collectible and you'll pay through the nose for them. As they'll most likely have to come from the USA you'll pay through the nose again for shipping (and then Her Majesty may want a payment too).

Mind you, a humble old Skinner brace (made in Sheffield) will drill a hole just as round.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Mike.S (16 Dec 2015)

Vann":33rwfafm said:


> North Bros _Yankee_ No.2100 (also made by Stanley after they bought out North Bros.)
> 
> These are probably the best made braces ever. But of course they're very collectible and you'll pay through the nose for them. As they'll most likely have to come from the USA you'll pay through the nose again for shipping (and then Her Majesty may want a payment too).


+1

See part 6 of the articles I linked to earlier - video show of what to look for in the best braces.


Vann":33rwfafm said:


> Mind you, a humble old Skinner brace (made in Sheffield) will drill a hole just as round.


+1
I like the Skinner (2 jaw) braces and have a couple of these, both restored (see part 4 of the articles for a before and after shot of the brace). Been struggling to find a longer sweep (e.g. over 10") version though - useful for the larger diameter drill brits.


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## Jelly (17 Dec 2015)

D_W":2ailzwkx said:


> I don't know what's sold generally in the UK, but the north brothers braces here are highly acclaimed, and the post-north bros stanley braces are fine.
> 
> I've had plenty of "undesirable" according to tool bloggers (braces) and as long as the chucks work and the top pad still works freely, I can hardly tell what the big deal is about one brace vs. another.
> 
> My advice is to get one or two, use them and then see if you need anything else. I can't recall ever using the ratchet function on a brace for woodworking, but admittedly, if the work is heavy or in a restricted spot, I look for an electric drill.



Indeed I have a North Bros brace where one of the rivets failed and was replaced by bending a nail through the hole, its ugly but it works so well that I feel no need to replace it with a new part.

I do have a power drill, but between an eggbeater & breast drill and a brace, there really isn't a time I feel its required.


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## Rhyolith (17 Dec 2015)

Vann":380wfbdh said:


> Richard8689":380wfbdh said:
> 
> 
> > Can I also ask which models are the finest quality eg 73, 144, 945, 81, 78?
> ...


 Yes the 2100 is the best by common consensus, I would love to get my hands on one just to see if that is true. Stanley's version of it (still called No.2100 i think) is cheaper than the North Brothers original, but probably lower quality too (if other Stanley North Bros reproductions are anything to go by). I would only get a cheap brace personally (can pick them up for 50p at car boots) until you know what you need/use. 

If your doing joinery/funiture etc.. and drilling small holes, then a decent hand drill might be more useful as they are more capability with modern drill bits. Millers Falls are the best make for those, avoid Stanley drills they simply don't compare. 

However I would highly recommend getting a joist brace, I find them far more useful then standard braces. They are a bit like half a standard brace that can be used a bit like a ratcheting wrench to get into tight spaces; I used mine for driving large brass screws in awkward places on some boats where literally nothing else would do it, but as the name suggests there primary function is drilling in joists (and tight roof spaces generally). Skinner (Sheffield) made the one I have which is fine except the chuck which does not like to give drill bits back!


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## Boringgeoff (19 Dec 2015)

Richard, one advantage the Stanley No 73 has over the others you mentioned is that the spring holding the jaws is not so prone to damage. The engineers at Stanley perceived a problem with small diameter round shank bits being forced back into the jaw and damaging the spring. To overcome this problem they brought the spring from the back of the jaw, as usual, but continued the wire down slot in the shaft of the chuck carrier, around the outside to another slot and back to the other jaw. 
The British Stanleys are all good quality braces.
Cheers,
Geoff.


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## GLFaria (21 Dec 2015)

AndyT":vwk6u76w said:


> I can personally recommend the 144 as being a very good user, though I don't have any other Stanley braces to compare it with. It has good bearings, a nice positive ratchet and best of all a four jaw chuck which grips tapered end bits and round bits equally well. And in my case, all the original plating and varnish....


I recently bought a used (and somewhat neglected...) 10" sweep Stanley 144 Mk2 "made in England", with a two jaw alligator chuck. Quite rusty and somewhat pitted in places, but fully functional. The jaw may, or may not, be the original one.
I have been searching for some information on the features of the diferent marks of the 144, but so far have found nothing. Can anyone lead me somewhere (online) I may find anything on this?

In the same occasion I also got what, after a hard search, seems to be a Millers Falls 122. It is in so sorry a state that I am still scratching my head as to why I took a liking to it, you know how it is sometimes with tools. I am not even one hundred percent sure it is a Millers Falls at all, except that after I gave the chuck shell the citric acid treatment, below all the hammering, filing and sandpapering it suffered there still remains a very faint inscription carrying enough letters to suggest it is so.. I still have had no opportunity to de-rust it enough to look for other markings. If I ever opt for completely cleaning and refurbishing it, I will probably have to ask for some advice on a couple of details (yes, I have read "The humble hand brace" by "Brit" on Lumberjocks...)

G.

edit: had written "stanly mills" insted of Millers Falls...


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## AndyT (21 Dec 2015)

Well, that's a pity, G, but I suppose with the Stanley range being so wide and available for so long, variations and differences abound.

This is the brace I was talking about:







and this is the inside of the chuck:






There are no separate springs - the thin fingers are springy enough themselves, so the whole thing is very simple and robust.
It will grip round bits from as small as an 1/8" up to about 1/2"






and of course, take bits with tangs:






I don't have a catalogue with it in - indeed, I don't have much on 'recent' Stanley stuff. I would put this brace somewhere in the 60s or maybe the 70s - when taper-tanged bits had become old fashioned - but before the later model with a plastic handle, unless wood/plastic was another aspect of user choice.

Looking at a 1958 catalogue, there is reference to an option of 'universal' jaws for gripping any bit, but the illustration shows a single pair of loose jaws, not like my brace.

It's maybe worth showing this one as a similar tool, nearly as good, to show the ordinary arrangement. It's a Toga (Buck and Hickman own brand.) These jaws are ok on round bits from about 1/4" to 3/8" but can't close as tight or open wider and stay as near to parallel as the Stanley does.


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## GLFaria (21 Dec 2015)

Thank you, AndyT

It's indeed a pity this is a two-jaw chuck, mainly because there's much less choice of bits.

For what it's worth, here's mine. Just gave it a little face cleaning and lots of 3 in 1, as it was completely dry. It still needs a ful cleaning/reconditioning job.

G.


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## Boringgeoff (21 Dec 2015)

Good photos Andy and G thank you, Andy does your No 144 have a Mk ? I've got a 144 10 in Mk 3 which like G's Mk 2 and your Toga has the "Alligator" jaws but the head and handle are plastic. 
An earlier No 144 10 in I have what I call "transitional", with octagonal faced chuck with inscription " J A CHAPMAN Made in Sheffield By Stanley Works (GB) Ltd." Stanley took an interest in Chapman about 1937 and (I think) owned them outright by 1945 so I would put the date of this No 144 as post war. 
I'm guessing there must be maybe five models in the 144 series starting with my "transitional" followed by the first fully branded Stanley, then MK's 2 and 3 and finally Andy's four jaw (Mk 4 ?) 
I'm currently building a stone wall, the weather lady is forcasting 39C here today so I can see a jolly good reason for coming in and having a closer look at my British Stanleys. 
G, a good resource for researching Millers Falls tools is oldtoolheaven.com an American site hosted by Randy Roeder, according to that your MF No 122 was made between 1885 and 1919.
Cheers,
Geoff.


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## GLFaria (22 Dec 2015)

Boringgeoff":2hy1z5kb said:


> ...G, a good resource for researching Millers Falls tools is oldtoolheaven.com an American site hosted by Randy Roeder, according to that your MF No 122 was made between 1885 and 1919.
> Cheers,
> Geoff.


Thanks, Geoff, I know and have searched Randy Roeder's blog a number of times, but even all the information he gives is not enough when one isn't even sure of what one has his hands on. I compared the external features of the brace I have with the visible features illustrated in Roeder's and other sites (including e-bay and antique tools auctioneers carrying pictures), but I can only get to a rough estimate of the type, there are maybe three or four that nearly could match. The No. 122 is just the one I feel fits more closely, but so far I cannot be positive.

G.


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## Boringgeoff (22 Dec 2015)

Hello G.I hunted through a pile of English braces yesterday and found two Stanley's, a 144 10 IN and a 144 10 IN Mk 3. Although the first one hasn't got any Mk on it, for the exercise I'm going to call Mk 1
It's almost identical to the Chapman by Stanley with the octagonal chuck but the length of the chuck assembly has been shortened by about 17mm. The head has a ball race thrust bearing as does the Mk 3 but lacking on the Chapman by Stanley model.





The Mk 3 has a round chuck and plastic head and handle. 




The script on the frame differs between the two.





In this last photo the earlier model is the lower.
The jaws differ between the two, although of course they could be replacements. The later one has slotted openings at the back where the earlier one is blind.











As an aside, the note attached to the Mk 3 reminds me that it came from my good friend Vann in NZ, thanks Vann.
While I was sorting through the braces I found a TOGA which looks the same as Andy's and was able to add the information supplied by Andy that it is from the Buck and Hickman stable which I didn't previously know. Thanks Andy.
I hope I haven't bored everyone to death.
Cheers,
Geoff.


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## AndyT (23 Dec 2015)

Fwiw, I've checked my brace and it's just marked No 144 10" with no indication of any Mark number.


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## Droogs (23 Dec 2015)

probl'y means it's a Mk1


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## AndyT (23 Dec 2015)

I can't be very definite about the age of my 144 but it was definitely post war, and probably before the 70s.


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## Boringgeoff (28 Dec 2015)

I found two braces with 4 jaw chucks up in the shed. The first by Henry Boker of Germany looks very similar to your example Andy. I don't know anything about it, but would have guessed pre-war



The other is a cheapy with no marks on which, due to the look of the head and handle, I was assuming was Stanley.






On a trip to NZ last year I saw one for sale in a hardware shop in TeKuiti marked "Stanley Australia, Made In Taiwan."

Cheers,
Geoff.


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