# Atkinson Walker handmade tenon saws ?



## olie (5 Jan 2009)

hey everyone 

this year i went to the W8 woodworking show at the Birmingham NEC and the was a saw manafactuer there called atkinson walker, i had a chat to the stall manager and he explained to me about there handmade tenon saws. they've been apartently made the same way for almost 100 years now but using ever increasing better metals. so i got interested and after visiting there very friendly factory shop in sheffield i purchased 1 for around £50. It seems to work very well, but i'mwondering why its priced so much below other english saw makers e.g. PAX and Roberts and Lee ? has anyone used the saw for more length than me or more experience of heard more about them on the grapevine id be very appreciative. 

happy new year 

Olie


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## matthewwh (5 Jan 2009)

Funnily enough I just had them send me a catalogue and a price list after a recommendation from one of our customers. I'm thinking of stocking them, so I too would be interested to hear from anyone with an experience of their products.

Cheers,

Matthew


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## bugbear (6 Jan 2009)

Where/how the hell have those been sold?

I've had nearly every (retail) tool catalogue since 1985, and have many and various WW magazines from 1930 - 1990, and I don't recall the name?!?

BugBear


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## whiteant (6 Jan 2009)

http://www.atkinson-walker-saws.co.uk/handsaws.html


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## Pete W (6 Jan 2009)

bugbear":3aur4yuf said:


> Where/how the hell have those been sold?



Hmmm - they've got saw files, too.


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## pedder (6 Jan 2009)

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... story.html

quote:

The latest addition to our product lines was added in June 2008 in the form of the Roberts & Lee saw company. This was the last other known saw manufacturers in the UK. 
:?: :?: :?: :wink: 

Cheers 
Pedder


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## Evergreen (6 Jan 2009)

So Atkinson Walker are still going? Good for them. I bought an Atkinson Walker "Blue Flight" panel saw about 25-30 years ago. It was on the recommendation of Which?, strange as it may seem. It had a plastic handle but was resharpenable - this was before the days of hardpoint saws, I think. I never liked it much, I'm afraid, the handle wasn't comfortable and it dulled quickly. I got rid of it and bought a Spear and Jackson "Spearior 88" which I thought was the cat's pyjamas at that time.

The comment that Roberts and Lee was the last known other saw manufacturer in the UK caused me to go looking for Slack Sellars and Co which are (were?) the makers of my own back saw. They are still listed in a Sheffield directory but their website doesn't seem to function so maybe they are no longer in business. Shame.

Incidentally, I found this wonderful collection of back saw trade marks
http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option ... &Itemid=92


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## Chris Knight (6 Jan 2009)

Evergreen,
Nice find!


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## matthewwh (9 Jan 2009)

That one's definitely going in the bookmarks!

I spoke to Atkinson Walker today and they are going to pop a couple of samples in the post to me. I'll give 'em the once over and post some photos.


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2009)

matthewwh":3t5nyvit said:


> That one's definitely going in the bookmarks!
> 
> I spoke to Atkinson Walker today and they are going to pop a couple of samples in the post to me. I'll give 'em the once over and post some photos.



Given recent interest in saws, and shop tuning, there might be a market for a nearly finished "kit", where the handle has been sawn, drilled, but not shaped.

Shaping a handle to fit one's own hand is an enjoyable task, but expensive for the manufacturer, and clearly a manufacturer can only make an" average" not a "custom" fit.

This (it seems to me) would generate both a cost saving and a product USP, in the target market.

BugBear


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## matthewwh (12 Jan 2009)

Sound like a sensible idea. 

I'll get in touch with Joel and see how he's getting on with his Gramercy kit saws, if they are working out for him I see no reason why we shouldn't look at doing something similar over here.

Cheers,


Matthew


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## Harbo (12 Jan 2009)

I was "served" by Joel back in November when I bought two of his kits when I visited his Brooklyn store - I am pretty sure he said most of his saw sales were for kits. It's a big saving in the purchase price - the kits are approx. half the cost of the finished saws.
The instructions and handle templates are great but they do not come with the lovely etching on the blade!

Rod


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## MIGNAL (12 Jan 2009)

bugbear":g4fvypyu said:


> matthewwh":g4fvypyu said:
> 
> 
> > That one's definitely going in the bookmarks!
> ...



Good idea IMO. I don't think it should stop at Dovetail saws though, it really should include Tenon and Carcass saws as well.
I'm of the opinion that it should just include the blade, saw nuts and an accurate handle template/ instructions. I know that cutting the slot may be difficult to get right but we are woodworkers after all and even if people mess up on the first few attempts it's hardly wasting a lot of wood.
Just my thoughts of course - I'm not the one setting up the kits and having to make a profit.


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## bugbear (14 Jan 2009)

MIGNAL":13qvjcb9 said:


> bugbear":13qvjcb9 said:
> 
> 
> > matthewwh":13qvjcb9 said:
> ...



Yes - certainly the idea could be applied equally well to all types of saw. However dovetail saws are the most sought after, since many power tool/hand tool hybrid workers only do fine joint cutting by hand, all other operations being powered. As an aside, this is why smoothing planes are discussed far more than the more general stock-prep planes.

But I think a more finished handle-kit would be better (poll?). Cutting the shape requires a fine bladed bandsaw, or a LOT of labour with a coping saw, the stock being hard and 1" thick.

Drilling the holes in the right place, to the right size carries scope for error and waste. But "fitting" a handle to your hand is just a joy to do, and a large saving on manufacture cost.

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (14 Jan 2009)

Oh, that must mean I'm seriously good!


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## matthewwh (18 Feb 2009)

Here's some pics of the sample Atkinson Walker 168 10" 14tpi rip tenon saw:












My first impression is that it is a sturdily made, heavy tool. They certainly haven't skimped on the solid brass back which is 3mm (1/8") thick and (correctly in my opinion) folded rather than slotted, so you have the facility to re-tension the blade if neccessary. At £54.50 it's a proper workmanlike piece of kit at a sensible price. The handle, although perfectly functional was a little uninspiring, beech stained with rosewood dye and lacquered.







I tried it out on a scrap of English walnut against a couple of our other rip saws. 





The Pax 1776 is a considerable step up in terms of luxury with its polished brass back and beautiful elm handle, at £93 it's also a more substantial investment. Not really a fair comparison as this was a 20tpi saw, but it does give some idea of how much difference there is between a 20 and a 14 tpi saw with the same thickness of blade (0.7mm / .025 gauge). The Gyokucho Evagrip Dozuki is more comparable in terms of price at £35, again, not really a like for like comparison as its blade is less than half the thickness, (this is only meant to be a bit of fun, not a full on scientific test.)
Here's the outcome from 20 strokes with each saw, allowing the weight of the tool to do the work, all cut smoothly without chatter. 






I had a chat with Chris Walker this morning and he gave me a bit more info on their nail resistant circular saw blades - very Workshop Heavenish I think! It sounds as though the kit idea is a go-er as well, Chris is going to put some costings together and get back to me, so I'll keep you posted on progress.


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## Harbo (18 Feb 2009)

It is a bit similar to my cheapo Crown which I believe are made by the same crowd?






Handle replaced with a spalted beech one based on an ancient Rose & Alexander one.
I also removed a lot of the set with a bit of gentle filing.
It's still very clunky when compared with the likes of Wenzloffs, Gramercys, LN, LV etc. but only cost about £30?

Rod


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## bugbear (19 Feb 2009)

Harbo":2f5t3vk3 said:


> It is a bit similar to my cheapo Crown which I believe are made by the same crowd?



That's a bold statement - any citeable source?

BugBear


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## Ray Gardiner (19 Feb 2009)

I also would be interested to hear some clarification as to who makes what, 

These are the ones I am aware of...
Thomas Flinn http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/
Thomas Flinn makes the following brands...
Pax ( was at one time Sanderson )
Lynx ( E Garlick & Son )
William Greaves
Jesse Lane ( Sanderson Newbould )
ET Roberts & Lee

Crown Hand Tools Ltd http://www.crownhandtools.ltd.uk/products/saws.asp

Footprint Tools http://www.footprint-tools.co.uk/Products/saws.htm

Atkinson & Walker http://www.atkinson-walker-saws.co.uk/handsaws.html

Anyone aware of any others?

Regards
Ray


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## Modernist (19 Feb 2009)

matthewwh":hsnvnt2v said:


> Here's some pics of the sample Atkinson Walker 168 10" 14tpi rip tenon saw:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting thread and a similar result to my unconnected thread on Woodwork UK

http://www.woodworkuk.co.uk/forum/viewt ... f=5&t=2533

cheers

Brian


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## Harbo (24 Feb 2009)

I have no real evidence about who makes what and perhaps I have misread Thomas Flynn's "World od Woodworking" blurb:


> The latest addition to our product lines was added in June 2008 in the form of the Roberts & Lee saw company. This was the last other known saw manufacturers in the UK. This is now in operation from our factory.



But if you look closely at the handles and brass fixings of the Crown, William Greaves and Atkinson Walker - they look identical to me?

Rod


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## Ray Gardiner (25 Feb 2009)

Hi Harbo, 

The similarity (identical) of the handle patterns is too much of a coincidence to be arbitrary, and it would seem to indicate one of only a few possibilites.

1. They are all made by the same company.
2. They all outsource the handle making to the same company.
3. They all chose identical handle patterns, by accident.

I put the question to Katie (see http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option ... 6&catid=11) 

and, (given what I infer the situation to be) she quite properly (and politely) declined to answer. Full marks to her. 

I think we can join the dots however, and draw conclusions. 

As always, in attempting to determine who makes what, the real situation is probably more complex. There may well be a mix of outsourced product (perhaps some of the hard point saws) and internally made product for all I know. Outsourcing is not a new practice in sawmaking by any means, Taylor Bros made saws for many different brands, and other sawmakers no doubt did the same.
Still it's good to know there are still saws being made in Sheffield, long may it continue.

Regards
Ray


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## Harbo (25 Feb 2009)

Hi Ray - thanks for the link, it makes interesting reading.

I do not really care about the rebadging but why not be honest about it - the main thing is that they are made in Sheffield?
It's a pity they do not go the extra mile and improve the standard handle - but perhaps it will cost way too much?
If they are the same clones, then perhaps they could produce variations with better handles priced accordingly?

Rod


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## woodbloke (25 Feb 2009)

Those saws look good apart from the handles, which look like the awful Spear & Jackson things I had when I was teaching. How difficult can it be for a maker to improve the saw 100% by fitting a good quality handle? Surely not that much I would have thought - Rob


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## MIGNAL (25 Feb 2009)

Just reshape the existing handle. Obviously the amount that can be done is limited but simply rounding the corners will make it feel more comfortable in the hand.


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## matthewwh (26 Feb 2009)

Thomas Flinn do make saws for other people, but Atkinson Walker are independent. Having said that there aren't that many component parts to a saw and I shouldn't imagine there is a massive selection of people supplying those components within Sheffield.

As far as the handles go, I think we are onto a good idea with a saw kit that allows you to make a custom handle of your own. As a one off project making a really nice bespoke handle is quite enjoyable, but becomes prohibitively expensive when viewed as a commercial proposition. In terms of getting Wenzloff looks and feel, but without the bill or the waiting, I reckon this is the best solution. Now I just need to find some really good handle plans.


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## bugbear (26 Feb 2009)

woodbloke":1rj42oc9 said:


> Those saws look good apart from the handles, which look like the awful Spear & Jackson things I had when I was teaching. How difficult can it be for a maker to improve the saw 100% by fitting a good quality handle? Surely not that much I would have thought - Rob



Eddie Sirotich says otherwise.

BugBear


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