# My Workbench Design - Drawer Sizing (page 3)



## OPJ (17 Feb 2009)

Hi guys,

Here's my current design for a new workbench I'm planning to start building fairly soon.







Generally, I'm very happy with what I've come up with and I believe it will do everything I personally want a workbench to do for me (I haven't set out the dog holes yet! :wink.

Current dimensions are 1830mm long x 900mm high x 620mm wide. That width measurement is likely to change though.

Couple of areas I need some help with...

*Bench Well*

Currently, I've allowed 150mm for the width (top will be 70mm thick). Do you think this is enough, or should I make it wider?
Also, I'd like to make a removable well but I'm not sure how - Jim Tolpin's book doesn't seem to mention it, unless I missed it.

*Racking*

I know that racking can be a problem when planing boards. I know that normally people would probably fit panels in to either end of the framework. But, I'd like to keep this as 'open' as possible so, I've added an extra rail here - do you think this will make much difference?

I might also add a series of holes down the length of the right hand length for supporting longer boards (with dowels) - what do you think?

Thanks for looking,

Olly.


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## SketchUp Guru (18 Feb 2009)

Looks good. As far as preventing racking, I would suggest that you plan to bolt the rails and stretchers to the legs so you can tighten things up when they become loose.


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## Lord Nibbo (18 Feb 2009)

If your definitely going to have the base open can I suggest making all the upper stretchers the same height perhaps 9" below the top and making a shelf below the work surface. It's only a suggestion.


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2009)

Thank you, guys.  

Dave, I will be assembling the frame with nuts and bolts so that it can be "knocked-down" and moved if/when required. I'll probably secure the top to the frame with long coach screws - that seems to be a popular way to do it.

Nibbo, good thinking. I do plan to use the area just below the top for jig storage (shooting boards, etc.) so I will add a ply shelf. I'll probably do something similar on the bottom rails, with a stack of drawers on one side for hand tools. :wink: 

Anyone got any tips or plans on designing a removable tool well? :?


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## wizer (18 Feb 2009)

Are you sure you don't want storage under there?

For the tool well, couldn't you just use some 'turn keys' Just a piece of wood which can be turned to support the well and then turned out the way to remove it ?

Or could it be hinged down at the back ? :-k


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2009)

Thanks Tom, I like the 'turn keys' idea - dead simple to make and easy to remove! :wink: 

With the bottom shelf, I want to leave part of it open for storing things like my metalworking vice (although I don't have one yet...), a sharpening stone station, bench grinder, things like that really.

And, I've made the space _below_ the bottom rail tall enough for me to slide those awkward power tool cases underneath (I hope)! :wink:


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## Steve Maskery (18 Feb 2009)

Olly
By "removable tool well" do you mean you want to lift out a box? Or do you mean you just want to have that section open for clamping, etc?

You could have a pair of battens running the full length, with the well bottom (1/4" MDF) just sitting on that.

Don't forget to put in a pair of sloping ends to make brushing out the shaving easier.

Cheers
Steve


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2009)

Hi Steve, yes, I basically want a 'box' that will lift out.  

I've drawn the back rail at 22mm thick though, I'm now thinking of making it thicker (45mm, like the rest) to accommodate some battens of similar. That way, I could rebate them to fit in place, with the MDF/ply sitting on top.


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## wizer (18 Feb 2009)

forgive my ignorance. Why do you want a full box to lift out? Where will you put it and what will you do with it. :?


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## MikeG. (18 Feb 2009)

One diagonal brace at the back, Olly, and your racking problem should be resolved. Even better if it is reasonably broad.........say 100mm plus, and chopped in (half-housed, maybe?).

If you don't want one long diagonal, you could do 2 corner braces, but make them at least 500 long. I wouldn't consider doing a bench without bracing or panelling.

Looking good, though, so far. I suggest making it a bit bigger..........like a workshop, you'll always be grateful for the extra space.

Mike


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2009)

Tom, I'm actually thinking about making the well in three or four segments, which should help with the storage issue when it is removed (if I need to remove all of it). This would generally be used for clamping larger items (doors, etc.) on the workbench top. What will probably happen is that I'll never actually use it but, for me, this seems the smarter option than to fit a permanent well and later find I want to remove it!! :wink: 

Mike, I'm looking at making it wider still - if I made it any longer than 6ft, I'll be running out of space for other things in my small space. I'm gonna stretch the tool well to about 175mm wide and increase the 450mm surface to either 495mm or 540mm (one or two lengths of beech).

Still undecided on the end/tail vice. I might just leave plenty of room and decide on it later, when I'm ready to do something about it.


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## Steve Maskery (18 Feb 2009)

Olly
I'm sure you've already done this, but, for anyone doing a search in a year's time, etc....

Read Scott Landis - The Workbench Book. Classic text, full of excellent designs.
Look at Bob Lang's video on the PopWood site. Excellent modern design, easy to build, too.

S


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## SketchUp Guru (18 Feb 2009)

If you can wait a few days there'll be a new workbench design featured on Fine Woodworking. It doesn't have a tool tray but that would be easy to add.


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## Chris Knight (18 Feb 2009)

Tool wells are the creation of the Devil. :mrgreen:


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## OPJ (19 Feb 2009)

Just been watching the Bob Lang video that Steve mentioned earlier... It's got me thinking again about making the legs and rails flush and, whether I should turn my bench in to a piece of Swiss cheese...! :wink: 

Without any dog holes, this is how my design is looking right now:






I've reduced the top rail to 70mm wide from 95mm, increased the thickness of the rear rail on the top to 30mm and lost the dovetails on the front edge of the top, as I'm not aware that it could interfere with the top's inclination to shrink. :? I shouldn't have anything to worry about though; the bredboard end caps will be draw-bored in place, so there's plenty of strength there.  






The feet are still sticking out roughly 90mm at the front of the bench. I've now made them flush at the back though, which makes sense as this will be sat against a wall! I've increased the width of the tool well to 175mm and the main surface is now 495mm wide.

I had this idea for supporting the tool well; whether it's segmented or in one hole length:






I'm a little worried this might also cause some issues with expansion/contraction of the top - what do you think?

I've just found Bob's workbench design available as a SketchUp model - I'm gonna download it and see what he's done.


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## SketchUp Guru (19 Feb 2009)

Hope your computer is up to it. It's a fat model.


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## houtslager (19 Feb 2009)

show the link then


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## OPJ (19 Feb 2009)

What, the SketchUp model of Bob's workbench? Why, you can find it right here.


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## OPJ (21 Feb 2009)

I'm almost there with this design, I can feel it!!  






As you can see, I've added plenty of dog holes to the top, all based around where the central dog will be on my front vice. Bob Lang's video has certainly had an influence! I've made all rails flush with the legs but, I'm going to make sure the top still overhangs about 5mm, as it's inevitably going to expand and contract anyway... Perhaps American "garages" are more stable than ours, given that most of them are stuck on the side of a house? :roll: :wink: 

The tool well, I've decided, will be "segmented" and removable in three parts. Nothing fancy here, just some scraps of 6mm ply or MDF with no sides. I will scrap the dovetailed supports idea due to all the short grain where they join in the rails (why didn't I see that before?! :roll. Coupled with the risk of the top shrinking over time, something's going to give at some point! :shock:  

*Tail Vices*

I'd still appreciate some advice here - perhaps "end vice" is the more appropriate term? Looking at the Axminster range (_I can't afford the Veritas!!_), this one caught my eye. It looks as though it is fixed to the underside of the top, which is ideally what I want. Capacity isn't really important as I'll mainly be using this for work-holding against the dogs - not for cutting dovetails! :wink: I'm still thinking of running two side-by-side, to try and imitate the Veritas vice... Do you think it would work? Should I just stick with one end vice? £50, against £170, sounds like it's worth a shot to me...?

I'd like to get this sorted out fairly soon. Without it, I can't easily determine the maximum size for my under frame assembly - I need to buy the end vice(s) first.

As always, your thoughts would be much appreciated.


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## SketchUp Guru (21 Feb 2009)

That's looking more serious.

I would make the front edge piece on the top at least twice as high as you've drawn it if not more. Maybe 150mm and put the dogholes about 100mm below the top. This will allow you to support a board on edge for planing. Actually, I would set the dog holes a few mm above the screw and guide rods on the vise so you have maximum clamping height.

Make those dog holes through and be sure there's nothing to interfere with them behind. That way if you want to use one of those iron holdfasts that look a bit like a shepherd's crook, you can. Make sure all of the dogholes on the top also have clearance below.


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## sliver (24 Mar 2009)

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=28530

Also, try watching this for ideas. very inventive

cheers,sliver 
oops! that didn't work, wrong bit.  :roll: 
Same site but what I'm trying to show is 'John White's new fangled workbench revisited' video.


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## Geno (24 Mar 2009)

Maybe I've misread this but I'll comment anyway. In one of the images it shows the cross rails nearly in line with the front face of the bench top. Ok there's room for your feet to get under but would it not be a little more comfortable if your bench top had a little more overhang to avoid a bit of knee banging etc. 

Just my pennies worth!


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## Jake (24 Mar 2009)

OPJ":34ym4gz4 said:


> *Tail Vices*
> 
> Looking at the Axminster range (_I can't afford the Veritas!!_), this one caught my eye. ... I'm still thinking of running two side-by-side, to try and imitate the Veritas vice... Do you think it would work?



Not without some considerable work. A pair of Records are easier to mod that way (and about the same cost, s/h) because the end of the screw sticks out the back, and has a prong on the end which will happily take a cog. Do a search, I've posted details of mine before.


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## xy mosian (24 Mar 2009)

A thought about the removable tool well. How about using pre-made 'plastic' (ugh! ) or even wooden ( yeah! ) tote boxes with two compartments and a handle built in to make removal easier and possible when full of tools. They could be set to sit in a suitable rebate etc.


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## OPJ (25 Mar 2009)

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.  

Regarding the End Vice(s), I've bought a pair of the smaller ones of these a couple of weeks ago. I've also got one of the larger ones, just in case that doesn't work. :wink: 

Geno, you're quite right; I've drawn this up now so that all the front rails and legs are flush with the front edge of the top. I take your point with regards to 'comfort' but, I like my idea as it should allow me to easily clamp any_thing_ in any _way_.  If I don't like it thought, I could always release the top, slide it forward and re-fix it! 

xy mosian, I like your way of thinking - if they were wooden boxes, I could even make it so they stack together to form a portable tote box for working on-site... :-k For now though, I'll stick with the ply/MDF idea and will add some strips of timber below to create a supporting rebate. The beauty is that I could always change things later.


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## Geno (25 Mar 2009)

Good point about the clamping issue, and as u said, u can change it later if you like.

Good luck with the build! Couple of these projects in here that I'm keeping an eye on so plenty of WIP pics!!


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## SketchUp Guru (25 Mar 2009)

There's something I gleaned from working on the plans for the latest workbench featured at finewoodworking.com which I think is worth considering. The fellow who designed and built the bench only put 3 dog holes in the top. He also made the front edge of the bench deeper and set four dog holes in it lower down. He used the Veritas Twin Screw vise and set the dog holes on the front so they are level with the pins on the vise that keep the work off the screws. He also added a retractable planing stop to the left end of the vise. He uses a couple of iron holdfasts when he needs to keep the work from moving. By not actually clamping it down though, he doesn't spend as much time positioning the work for planing.

His plan is to add holes as needed.

You might want to check it out here


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## OPJ (25 Mar 2009)

Thanks for that, Dave. I really like the planing stop at the end of the bench. No matter how many holes I drill though, I have the feeling that I'll only ever be adding many more as the months go by!


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## SketchUp Guru (25 Mar 2009)

Olly, I bet you'll find you don't need as many holes as you think.


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## OPJ (4 Apr 2009)

I spoke to Nick Gibbs earlier today and Yandles and showed him my design. He seemed impressed. 8) He also got me thinking on the positioning of the vices...

Nick's way of thinking is that you should break tradition and fit the end vice to the left-hand end of the bench (even if you're a 'Righty'), with the front vice moving to the right hand side. Nick also likes to saw off the ends of boards and, being right-handed, it's not easy to do with an end vice and handles getting in the way.

I'm starting to see what Nick is saying - when a right-handed person is planing, they would probably find it easier to work towards the left-hand end of the bench. If I bring the front vice in from the right, that should allow me to work either side of the jaws... :-k 

I guess the only way to know for sure is to try it and see! :roll: Bearing in mind that, at college, I was using a bench with a right-hand front vice for the best part of six months (...until the vice fell apart and I had to switch to a bench with a left-sided vice! ), I feel confident about giving it a try.

Any thoughts on this?


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## OPJ (2 Jun 2009)

For those of you that don't follow my Blog, with another couple of coats of Danish Oil, my 'bench frame will be ready for assembly!  I already did a couple of dry-runs yesterday...






...It's always pleasing when your your work turns out to look a lot like your SketchUp drawing!! 8) :wink:

There may be some delay before I'm able to start working on the top so, I'd like to turn all attention to the drawers below.

My plan is to only fit drawers to one-half (vertically) of the lower space between the two rails. Total given height is 370mm, minus two lots of "18mm" for the ply top and bottom of a removable carcase (approximately *334mm*, then. ).

I'd like to use these drawers for the storage of my hand tools (currently, they're all jumbled up in the top drawer of a three-drawer filing cabinet... ). As Seanybaby suggested in another thread, I'm now thinking of a narrow drawer for chisels and the like at the top (100mm fronts???), with a couple of others for wider objects.

Removing 100mm for the top drawer would leave 234mm below... Half of that would make it 117 for each of the lower drawers...

Alternatively, I could go 75mm for the top drawer (maybe less?), leaving 259mm, which would give me two lower drawers at 129.5mm each...

What do people thinking about these sizings? Graduating the sizes would work better, I'm sure. I'd like to keep the bottom one as large as possible, just incase... How shallow do you think I can go with the top drawer?

Your thoughts would be appreciated, as always.


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## SketchUp Guru (2 Jun 2009)

Very nice. That will go nicely in my shop. When will you be bringing it around? :lol:


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## OPJ (4 Jun 2009)

Thanks, Dave.  Are you happy with just the frame or would you like a top as well?!  :wink:

I'm glad it will fit in your 'shop because, right now, it won't fit in mine, fully assembled...  :x

Now, back to my question on drawer sizing... :wink:


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## SketchUp Guru (4 Jun 2009)

I'll make room for it, top and all. 

I think I'd go with a 75mm deep top drawer for things layout and marking tools. Maybe split the top drawer in half and use one for chisels.


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## big soft moose (4 Jun 2009)

OPJ":2byscgd8 said:


> like my metalworking vice (although I don't have one yet...),



I think there is a spare metal working vice in our 'shop at work - if there is you can have it if you want as last time i looked it was just getting in the way.

too big/heavy to post but you can pick it up when you are next over our way or i could drop it off when i'm next going west.

I'll check next week (i'm off tommorow) and get back to you


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## OPJ (4 Jun 2009)

Thanks for your thoughts, Dave; I agree. 

Pete, it would be great if you could check that out and I'm be happy to take it off your hands, whenever we next meet - thank you!


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## SVB (8 Jun 2009)

Olly,

I have just been through this dilemma myself.

I have ended up with a 4", 5" and 8" draw (although the usable depth will be circa 3/4" less once the draw base has been rabbeted in).

I have also fitted a 7" deep faced draw below the bench (although it only really has 5" usable height as the stretcher will foul anything higher).

Simon


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## DaveL (8 Jun 2009)

Olly,

I made a small drawer chest that sits under my bench, look here, if I did it again I would loose one of the small drawers and make all of the rest a little bit deeper, but all of them are full now, looking for more space* elsewhere.  

*The Final Frontier :roll:


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## OPJ (8 Jun 2009)

Thanks, guys. 

I'm quite set on the idea of having one shallow drawer at the top for chisels and marking tools. As it stands, I'm looking at having three drawer fronts measuring 90mm, 109mm and 135mm. Each will have a space of 55mm, 74mm and 100mm respectively. I'm losing 35mm from each front as I've currently got them overhanging the drawer rails (19mm thick) below... I may or may not stick with this. Then, there's 16mm for drawers runners - I may go with NK-style, as Dave R has previously suggested to me. :wink:

I've also drawn my drawer bases at 10mm. Maybe 6mm would be enough? Certainly, if I added a muntin... :k

My sides are likely to finish at around 10mm thick, as the timber I have for that is only about 1¼" (and I can't afford to buy any more wood! :shock so, I think that rules out most other methods, which is why I'm sticking with 'traditional' runners.


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