# BALLS! and how do you hold yours?



## nev (5 Feb 2012)

Any tips from experienced ball makers as to the best way of going about turning a ball? I am trying between centres with a cardboard semi circular template and whilst i am getting there, Giotto I am not! I seem to be chasing the curve around the ball, and what started as a 4in ball is rapidly becoming a 2in ball!
So any TIPS please  apart from buying a ball jig :?


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## gerrybhoy70 (5 Feb 2012)

I'm having the same problem Nev.
Can't seem to get anywhere near a uniform curve all the way round.
On my 4th attempt now, and the first 3 all ended up looking like burst rugby balls!!!! Bin!!!!!

Hopefully one of you experienced ball-guys/girls will be able to help us novices out.


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## jumps (5 Feb 2012)

l'm not experienced, so by best advice would be to start with a 6" one..........


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## gerrybhoy70 (5 Feb 2012)

Haha - sounds like a plan jumps.


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## Jonzjob (5 Feb 2012)

Don't always work even if you start out with a 6"er







:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

No seriously. Start between centres, get it to a pretty good shape and make yourself a bigger version of the clamp in the photo above.

This is one I prepaired earlier, as some say? Done in the same way. Done as a small gift for a neighbours daughter and she didn't even say thank you :? A beechball


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## pip1954 (5 Feb 2012)

hi johzjob
perhaps a misunderstanding "when she asked for a beach ball" :mrgreen:


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## Jonzjob (5 Feb 2012)

It was a gift so she couldn't complain. After all waddshe want for nowt? Her money back :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Definately beech 8) 8) And it will float too :?


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## Wood spoiler (5 Feb 2012)

Mine is a very similar concept to jonzjob's method of workholding but is worth showing as an alternative if you haven't got the gear to hold it. One piece goes into the chuck. The other side encases the tailstock

I turn the balls between centres. Then remove and bandsaw off the two "nibs" and then return at 90 degrees between the clamp arrangement to finish denibbing and sanding round






Hope this helps


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## Jonzjob (5 Feb 2012)

Not similar Colin.. Pretty well identical I would say :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I didn't explain me-sen very well, but that's the way I do it too :mrgreen:


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## nev (6 Feb 2012)

OK, so thats how to hold it =D> I guess the tailstock bit is still supported by the live centre point and the whole lot spins?

now howzabout some tips on achieving a perfect sphere :shock: using my template i got what i thought was round but it didnt look right. while from the front the template fitted perfectly, when turned through 90 it was way out and the bit that then needed removing was part of the 'perfect' bit! obviously gone a bit too far  
I started with a cylinder BC, measured dia. marked cylinder, then using parting tool cut to width (leaving support at centre) thinking that if i now do not touch the extremities and use my template i should get a ball.
not quite  
maybe my methods OK and i just need more practice, or maybe there is some cunning way to do it known only to the inner circles of master turners. if so .... do tell


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## Wood spoiler (6 Feb 2012)

Practice!






or


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## TEP (6 Feb 2012)

I don't normally post much these days, but thought I may be able to help on this topic.

The above posts are how many of us turn balls, myself included. I don't use a template. To turn a 4" ball I would turn between centres to 4" dia, mark a pencil line in the centre, then turn down each side of the line making sure that you leave the final shape in a parody of a rugby ball. ie- just slightly elongated 'over round' each side of the centre line. As above cut off the nibs that are left, fit your wood 'holders' and place the ball between them so that the pencil line is centred on the driving ends. ie- nib ends are running together on the centre line of rotation. 90deg to the first rotation.

Switch on and you should now be able to see a 'ghost' of the oversized round ends of the timber, all you have to do is remove this ghost carefully and you will be left with a perfect sphere.

Sand and finish! "Or as I sometimes do, re-centre another 90deg shift as I made an a*** of it, and you end up with a 3 7/8" ball.

Good luck.


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## TEP (6 Feb 2012)

Another way that just came to me is if the 'balls' are small ones you can use a piece of steel pipe just smaller than the ball dia. Rough turn the ball, then push the pipe against the ball moving it in a circular motion, this acts as a scraper to remove any raised bits and turns a perfect sphere. You are then left with just the nib to remove.

Just make sure the pipe dia. is smaller than the finished ball, otherwise the ball can disappear up the pipe and snap off.  

Again, good luck!


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## Jonzjob (6 Feb 2012)

Easy peasy






I did one of those too :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 36 X 5/8" balls and the lazy suzan runs beautifully! 8)


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## nev (6 Feb 2012)

cheers Tam, and to colin and john - thats just showing off :mrgreen:


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## Wood spoiler (6 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":1acp7fdz said:


> Easy peasy
> 
> 
> I did one of those too :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 36 X 5/8" balls and the lazy suzan runs beautifully! 8)



You trumped mine 'cos I only run on 24!


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## Wood spoiler (6 Feb 2012)

nev":3uz7w4ck said:


> cheers Tam, and to colin and john - thats just showing off :mrgreen:




   Wot - Us? Never


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## Jonzjob (6 Feb 2012)

Init just 8) 8) 8) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## boysie39 (6 Feb 2012)

FOR SALE !!

Five varyieng size wooden marbles 5/8" to 7/8" approx. turned from 6x6" beech cubes sixth is well on it's way to compleation #@%#[email protected]#. :twisted: :twisted: :shock: :shock: ](*,) ](*,) 

But I tkink I'm getting the hang of it the sixth one looks as if it's going to be bigger. =D> =D>


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## philb88 (6 Feb 2012)

How are you guys attaching the cup to the revolving tailstock? Is the a tapered centre with a screw centre?

Cheers


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## boysie39 (6 Feb 2012)

philb88":37e84g3f said:


> How are you guys attaching the cup to the revolving tailstock? Is the a tapered centre with a screw centre?
> 
> Cheers


If you look at a few of the previous posts you will see where they have hollowed a piece that fits over the revolving tailstock, I think this is maybe the best way to do it. :roll: 

Makes you think dont it.
Good luck with your balls :lol:


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## Jonzjob (6 Feb 2012)

You speek fer yer sel Boysie.. My tailstock is the Axy multi head jobbie and I just turned the holder to fit into the hole wot the different heads fit in. I make it a nice snug fit and there's no problem removing it 'cause the unit has a threaded collar to remove the steel heads 8) 8) 8) Cool or wot :mrgreen: 

This is it, but I had mine before they did the complete set and got it all in 2 lots

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod831018/

For the larger ball I will use the concave head and pad it with some paper towel. Don't want any marks do we :roll: :roll:


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## harris (6 Feb 2012)

Try this method, I find it is almost foolproof. For say a 3 inch dia ball, mount your timber between centres and turn it down to 3 ins dia then mark off a 3 inch long section. With a parting tool cut each end of this section down to a 1/2 inch (or smaller if you can manage it) spigot at either end (smooth end grain finishes). You now have a 3 inch long x 3 inch dia turning with both end faces clearly exposed. Mark the centre line then mark off 5 lines either side of the centre, each one 1/4 inch apart. From the large dia down to the spigots, mark rings on both end grain surfaces - again 1/4 inch apart. Now with an arcing cut just join the outer line on each end of the large dia to the fist ring on the end grain. Continue and join the second lines to the second rings and so on. This will prevent the "rugby ball" shape and when you get to the spigots you finish off as best as your skill allows - the smaller the spigot dia, the less fiddling to finish there is.
Hope it helps.
Fred.


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## gregmcateer (6 Feb 2012)

harris":ney73d5u said:


> Try this method, I find it is almost foolproof. For say a 3 inch dia ball, mount your timber between centres and turn it down to 3 ins dia then mark off a 3 inch long section. With a parting tool cut each end of this section down to a 1/2 inch (or smaller if you can manage it) spigot at either end (smooth end grain finishes). You now have a 3 inch long x 3 inch dia turning with both end faces clearly exposed. Mark the centre line then mark off 5 lines either side of the centre, each one 1/4 inch apart. From the large dia down to the spigots, mark rings on both end grain surfaces - again 1/4 inch apart. Now with an arcing cut just join the outer line on each end of the large dia to the fist ring on the end grain. Continue and join the second lines to the second rings and so on. This will prevent the "rugby ball" shape and when you get to the spigots you finish off as best as your skill allows - the smaller the spigot dia, the less fiddling to finish there is.
> Hope it helps.
> Fred.



Now THAT seems pretty damn smart, to me!
I might even give that a go...
after I get back from skiing on the 20th - Whoopee!!
Good luck everyone in the dang competition.
Cheers,
Greg


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## boysie39 (6 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":1wag2wlw said:


> You speek fer yer sel Boysie.. My tailstock is the Axy multi head jobbie and I just turned the holder to fit into the hole wot the different heads fit in. I make it a nice snug fit and there's no problem removing it 'cause the unit has a threaded collar to remove the steel heads 8) 8) 8) Cool or wot :mrgreen:
> 
> This is it, but I had mine before they did the complete set and got it all in 2 lots
> 
> ...


I always speak for meself. It was Colins system I was refering to, he uses the hole in the timber and ram it over the revolving tailstock dont you Colin, Ples. agree . Anyway it can be done by fitting the tailstock into a piece of spindle timber and another piece in the chuck and your away with the mixer.


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## Wood spoiler (6 Feb 2012)

boysie39":1ha5nqoa said:


> Jonzjob":1ha5nqoa said:
> 
> 
> > You speek fer yer sel Boysie.. My tailstock is the Axy multi head jobbie and I just turned the holder to fit into the hole wot the different heads fit in. I make it a nice snug fit and there's no problem removing it 'cause the unit has a threaded collar to remove the steel heads 8) 8) 8) Cool or wot :mrgreen:
> ...



Wot can I say Eugene - when yer right yer right

We can't all have the fancy ex-pat gear now can we?

Truth be told my local wood turning maestro insisted I tried his method going over the tailstock before I spent money on the expensive gear on sale in his shop. What can I say - it worked so it was only fair I spent what I would have done on more blanks!


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## Hudson Carpentry (6 Feb 2012)

Off he lathe, bandsaw then back on again?? Is this allowed within the rules of the comp? I hope so as it will also make my life easier


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## boysie39 (7 Feb 2012)

Well I was down in my Studio, yes I use to call it the Shed, but since winning an International woodturning competion January edition on here, I thought it only appropreite (or whatever) to move to the top of the ladder as indeed I should, especially when I start giving lessons and demo's for my following. :wink: :wink: .
Anyway Herself comes into the "Studio " and ses whats that your making Bottle stoppers, no ses I it's for me Balls
Whats wrong with your Balls she ses :shock: .Well ses I there not round enough, so I am making a Jig to put them in to round them off. So I am making the one Colin (Woodspoiler) uses because the one that yer man Jonzjob uses is bought in and a woodturner of my status should make everything he uses
Oooh right ses Herself, and where did this all come from that you have to round yer Balls.
"Blister" ses I he wants us all to have nice round Balls suspended from above or below for this months comp.
Well the cheek of him she ses, if you do yourself a mischief he'll have me to answer too.
So folks here I am between a rock and a hard place, should I use Jonzjobs system which I have or Woodspoilers which I also have made or go for Nev's idea buy a Ball making Jig Jeez its a tough life this woodturning innit.


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## Wood spoiler (7 Feb 2012)

boysie39":2x72vriw said:


> Well I was down in my Studio, yes I use to call it the Shed, but since winning an International woodturning competion January edition on here, I thought it only appropreite (or whatever) to move to the top of the ladder as indeed I should, especially when I start giving lessons and demo's for my following. :wink: :wink: .
> Anyway Herself comes into the "Studio " and ses whats that your making Bottle stoppers, no ses I it's for me Balls
> Whats wrong with your Balls she ses :shock: .Well ses I there not round enough, so I am making a Jig to put them in to round them off. So I am making the one Colin (Woodspoiler) uses because the one that yer man Jonzjob uses is bought in and a woodturner of my status should make everything he uses
> Oooh right ses Herself, and where did this all come from that you have to round yer Balls.
> ...



Well ses I, yer gotta use the one that works for YOU. 

The whole point of the competition from where I sits is to make us try new things and get new ideas etc that we might not otherwise try. That and on this occassion publicly fondling our balls to make sure they are the right shape!


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## boysie39 (7 Feb 2012)

Is'nt this a great forum for learning things . I would never have thought of fondueing me Balls if it wrent for Woodspoiler

Wonder what the French ie bloke thinks of that.


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## Jonzjob (7 Feb 2012)

Je ne conais rien :?


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## Paul Hannaby (7 Feb 2012)

Here's another easy way to make spheres - turn it between centres, allowing a short spigot each end so you can turn away the centre marks later. Start with your cylinder and round over each half to the approximate sphere. Make a pencil line at the centre of your sphere then take it out, rotate by 90° and hold between cup centres (either home made or bought). Turn away so you just remove the pencil line as far round as you can. Draw another pencil line at the centre and rotate by 90° again and repeat. That should leave you with a perfect sphere because each time you draw a pencil line, it will be a perfect circle. Sand lightly or your sphere will go out of shape.


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## gregmcateer (7 Feb 2012)

Paul,
Can you do a few sketches showing lines and which direction you are turning the cylinder and subsequent sphere?
Greg


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## Richard Findley (8 Feb 2012)

Hi Nev

If you dig through your past copies of Woodturning magazine I did an article on ball turning. Basically as John describes, using wooden cups and a template to get as close as possible. If you cut off your nibs and rotate and re-turn, then rotate and re-turn several times you will end up with a pretty good ball. Sanding with 80 grit and several re-positions will get it perfect. I've made loads of balls this way, the biggest being some 8" diam green oak balls for a gate post












As well as more refined versions for shopfitting displays:






HTh

Richard


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## philb88 (8 Feb 2012)

Any idea what copy number? Fairly recent? 

Cheers


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## steadyeddie (8 Feb 2012)

Issue number 228 - July 2011. Definitely worth a read too !

Dave


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## Richard Findley (8 Feb 2012)

Thanks Dave, was having trouble putting my hands on the exact copy.

Cheers

Richard


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## Retire2004 (8 Feb 2012)

Hi Guys, I agree largely with what has been said but would add the following which involves a little bit of maths. To make it easier I suggest we consider a 2" ball or sphere (1 inch radius). Turn the blank to as near as possible a 2" dia. Mark off the 2" length and part down the sides as squarely as possible to about 3/4" dia. initially. From the middle of the 2" cylinder mark either side 0.4" (actually 0.414 which is the tangent of 22.5 degrees - the maths bit, for other ball sizes it will always be the radius of the ball x .4 which is close enough for practical purposes). Spin a sharp pencil line around from these marks.
Now cut 2 x 45 degree chamfers either side almost down to these lines (this leaves you with an octagon shape viewed from above. With callipers or better still a vernier, measure across these chamfers diagonally (at 45 degrees). Re cut the chamfers until the caliper reading is 2" exactly and both chamfers are the same length (0.8" which is now the same dim. as the cylindrical portion. Now mark the middle of these two chamfers and spin a pencil line around.
You now have three pencil lines which represent an accurate 2" dia. when measured diagonally across. The next stage is to chamfer each of the (4) sharp corners (by eyeballing) until you have a 16 sided shape veiwed from above again meauring across the diagonals (through the core of the ball) until you arrive at a dia. of 2". You can at this stage use a cardboard template to finish off (I suggest that the template radius should be a little more than 1" - say 1 1/16" which will give a more intimate fit for comparrison. As you progress keep measuring with the calipers or vernier at all angles until you have a consistent dia. of 2". The name of the game is : measure, measure and measure again. This sounds long winded but you will probably produce a ball quicker than it took me to write this. Now saw off the nibs (slightly longer than 2" and finish in a cone chuck as already described.

Kind regards,

Tudor

Do the right things, don't just do things right.


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## nev (8 Feb 2012)

=D> With all this helpful info (and a bit of practice) we should all have perfect balls by the end of the month :shock:


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## Jonzjob (9 Feb 2012)

Not unless it warms up a bit! I ain't going into my workshop until it gets above zero and it's -8ºC at the mo :shock: :shock: :shock: 

I'm glad we moved down here for the warmth :? :? :?


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## duncanh (9 Feb 2012)

If anyone is feeling the need for a jig to help with their balls there are a few plans available online:-
Laymar Crafts
Bob Chapman

David Springett provided plans for a wooden one in issue 217 of Woodturing magazine.

There are also several videos Youtube of turning a sphere (both jig-less and with jig)


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## Jonzjob (9 Feb 2012)

And there were I thinking that this challenge were going to be a test of turning skills and not a test of engineering and jig making? Of course we could all get copy lathes and copy a tennis ball on it and if we all got really smart about it then we could get comptuerised jobbies and be done with it! Then I could just load up the blank and come back indoors and not have to be in the workshop at all :shock: :shock:


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## boysie39 (9 Feb 2012)

Im beggining to worry a bit. :roll: :roll: 

I was told if they were round when put on a flat surface like a table they will roll and then stop. :roll: 

I've tilted the blebby thing and not a move out me ball  :roll: #-o


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## Jonzjob (9 Feb 2012)

Did you take it off the lathe first 8) 8)


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## boysie39 (9 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":18zi4xfr said:


> Did you take it off the lathe first 8) 8)



I knew I forgot to do something, no wonder the table collalapsed.  

Will check with you before I make any other moves just in case I forget.


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## Jonzjob (9 Feb 2012)

Oh dear? Sometimes I do dis-pair, or is it dat-pair :? :?


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## gregmcateer (9 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":31z48y6f said:


> Not unless it warms up a bit! I ain't going into my workshop until it gets above zero and it's -8ºC at the mo :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> I'm glad we moved down here for the warmth :? :? :?



Now THAT is brass monkey temperature!

Well, my 'perfect balls' are going to have to wait till after half term - off to snowy Morzine on Sun with the kids for a bit of ski-tastic!!

(turning on the slopes is much easier than on the lathe :wink: )


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## gerrybhoy70 (9 Feb 2012)

If it's 'almost' round, is it still a ball?
Is it allowed to have a puncture?? :duno:


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## boysie39 (9 Feb 2012)

gerrybhoy70":1jh9reua said:


> If it's 'almost' round, is it still a ball?
> Is it allowed to have a puncture?? :duno:



I dont know , but no help from the AA you have to mend it your self Rules are rules :twisted: :twisted:


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## Jonzjob (9 Feb 2012)

An round is round :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## nev (9 Feb 2012)

gerrybhoy70":223zkh3s said:


> If it's 'almost' round, is it still a ball?



So thats where the Scots in the Calcutta cup went wrong then :wink:


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## jumps (10 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":3vaufs6w said:


> Not unless it warms up a bit! I ain't going into my workshop until it gets above zero and it's -8ºC at the mo :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> I'm glad we moved down here for the warmth :? :? :?



wus..... 8) 

admittedly the lowest I have been turning in this last week is only -3 though :shock: 

the funny bits are
1. remembering not to rest the hand on the headstock - until it's warmed up!
2. having to adjust the headstraps on the Airshield to fit a hat
3. the radiant heater works great but the Airshield only blows frozen air.
4. I've finally rediscovered a use for my old ski gear =D> 
5. remembering that sanding sealer will not dry instantly!

seriously considering building the other 2 walls on the leanto - but then my pet Robin wouldn't be able to pop in to see how I'm doing...

he shop at -2 today







but then again the view out is great


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## gerrybhoy70 (10 Feb 2012)

Jonzjob":3o1j8n52 said:


> An round is round :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



Most of it's round. 8)


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## boysie39 (10 Feb 2012)

gerrybhoy70":2vaa7ogd said:


> Jonzjob":2vaa7ogd said:
> 
> 
> > An round is round :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
> ...



Fire up the camera Gerryboy, Put her on the down slope and get her when she's rolling :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I wont tell a soul :wink: :wink:


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## gerrybhoy70 (10 Feb 2012)

boysie39":1opew18e said:


> gerrybhoy70":1opew18e said:
> 
> 
> > Jonzjob":1opew18e said:
> ...



She rolls without a problem Boysie (apart from the bump at the puncture). :roll: #-o


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