# Router table insert



## Anonymous

Hi all

Been asked half a dozen times lately about my home-made router table insert

Well, here it is. 6mm aluminium sheet with a big hole in; with a shoulder cut into it. One could easily attach two 4mm sheets together with large hole in top one and smaller hole in bottom to give the same shoulder. 
I have drilled 6 levelling holes around the edge and have mounted six 4mm bolts under it with lock nuts. I place an allen key through the holes to level it off and lock the nuts from underneath. 4 fixing screws in corners.

Inserts were a single piece turned on a lathe to fit and then chopped into 3mm thick pieces. I cut various sized holes (my range of holesaw sizes :wink: ) in them to accomodate the various router bits I am likely to use.

I recently drilled a few rows of 4mm holes in the top and countersunk them slightly - this helps loads with dust collection on the table as the inseret plate is mounted above a sealed plenum chamber (Norm design) which draws air down through all of them + the tool hole. Especially good when cutting slots in wood as all the waste gets pulled down from the groove 


There are several holes around the centre of the plate (need to get some of that metal filler stuff) as I have had 3 differnet routers mounted in it and all of them had different fixing centres :roll: 

Well, there it is. Works pretty well and is flat and stable and cheap :wink:


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## dedee

Tony,
your insert plate appears to be proud of the surrounding table or is this an illusion?

Andy


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## Neil

Absolutely fantastic, Tony  - I would love one of these for my table! I think I could cope with making the insert from two pieces of 4mm sheet as you suggest, but I wouldn't have a hope of making the inserts  - Do you think I could make them using the same 4mm sheet and a circle-cutting jig on the router? :? I haven't done any routing of aluminium and the thought of it makes me a little nervous...

Extraction holes are a great idea too 8) 

Neil


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## Alf

So when d'you start taking orders then?  Free shades included with every one of course... 8) :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Gill

Alf's right - you could market that sort of quality insert.

Gill


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## Charley

Alf":o5nigp82 said:


> So when d'you start taking orders then?


 Put me down for one


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## Chris Knight

Aluminium can be routed very easily and cut nicely on a tablesaw. I have done both - occasionally by accident and sometimes by design. I would have thought that borrowing Tony's design, everything could be made from suitable plate using these tools? It might be worthwhile to get the plate anodised if possible.


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## Anonymous

Chris

Interested in you comment about routing aluminium. Does it work well with conventional TC router cutters? I would have thought there may be a problem with build-up on the insert.

Re inserts, you can make similar inserts in polycarbonate or phenolic. That's how I made mine, following the method in Bill Hylton's book Router Magic. The big advantage in my opinion is that you can see through them!


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## Anonymous

dedee":2676vltr said:


> Tony,
> your insert plate appears to be proud of the surrounding table or is this an illusion?
> 
> Andy



An illusion. It is absolutely lined up flush using the adjustment screws.

Neil

I think the inserts could be made using the router and a circle jig. I have machined a lot of aluminium using a router on minimum speed. I tend to use the freebie bits I got with my cheaper router and they do a fine job :wink: 
I think a very thin bit would be best, maybe 5 mm or so straight cut
Be interested to find out how it works for you


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## Anonymous

GillD":y2tpok45 said:


> Alf's right - you could market that sort of quality insert.
> 
> Gill



Making one's OK but I never enjoy making a second of anything whetehr elcetroncem netal or wood 

I do have engineering drawings for mine and if anyone wants a copy just pm with an email address - I might be able to make them into a PDF


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## Anonymous

tycho14":32h86xj8 said:


> Chris
> 
> Interested in you comment about routing aluminium. Does it work well with conventional TC router cutters? I would have thought there may be a problem with build-up on the insert.
> 
> Re inserts, you can make similar inserts in polycarbonate or phenolic. That's how I made mine, following the method in Bill Hylton's book Router Magic. The big advantage in my opinion is that you can see through them!



Hi Tycho

I have routed loads of aluminium and never had build up problems using a light cut and slow speed


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## Chris Knight

Tycho,

I have used ordinary bits as per Tony's comment but you can get bits for the aluminium window industry - I think Trend do these - and I guess these may be better if one were to do very much.


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## Bean

I thought it was such a good idea that mine is on the way, I should take delivery of the ali tomorrow, then with a bit of fettling and a bit of twiddling we will be away 8) 

Bean


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## crazylilting

Dredged from the last page!!!

Wow this is nice, I haven't been here long so I thought i'd check out some of the old threads, this one is worth bumping for others who haven't seen it.


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## Gill

Well done for dragging it up again, CL.

Now, Tony... so much time has passed that making another wouldn't really be like making a second. I'm ever hopeful  .


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## Dibs-h

Gill":3fc1nubo said:


> Well done for dragging it up again, CL.
> 
> Now, Tony... so much time has passed that making another wouldn't really be like making a second. I'm ever hopeful  .



There's a firm at the bottom of my road, who have an EDM machine (and all the normal machining equipment manual & CNC) and could easily produce the circular inserts (and\or the whole table inserts) and don't charge the earth. Would anyone be interested - sort of a zero profit Group Buy thing? Worth exploring? Assuming Tony approved.


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## crazylilting

Yes yes yes!!

Let me know how much I may want more then one


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## Gill

Add me to the list too, please  .

Oh heck, I've just realised - that means I'll have to build a new router table. _Proper _woodwork as opposed to the sort of fripperies I normally indulge in 8-[  .


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## rileytoolworks

Depending on the price, me too...


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## skywriter

Put me down for one too please, again depending on price.


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## Dibs-h

I've sent Tony a PM and as soon as I hear back I'll let you know.


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## Dibs-h

I've been looking on the web and spotted the following,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... 784593.htm

makes one wonder about the cost effectiveness of getting some made? In the absence of anything else, this is what the sum of my surfing has brought up,

- plate size = 9"x12"
- 8mm thick, 
- centre hole 3 1\4" diameter (or thereabouts), with a 10mm shoulder
- insert rings would be 4mm thick (2 rings - 1.5" inner hole & 1" inner hole). They'll give me an average price per ring so as many as required could be supplied.

Another local firm I use for odds & sods are coming back to me with a price this afternoon. The one at the bottom of my road - I'll be swinging by in the morning - on the way to work - as they open around 07:30.

Although we could go with 6mm plate and 3mm rings. I'll see what the indicative prices are for the 8mm\4mm combo are first.

Dibs


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## wizer

I think the Tilgear one (which is exactly the same as the axi one) is a bit cheaper still.

You'd have to make it around the £20 mark to make it worth doing. In which case put me down for one.


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## Dibs-h

wizer":2lfaeeoe said:


> I think the Tilgear one (which is exactly the same as the axi one) is a bit cheaper still.
> 
> You'd have to make it around the £20 mark to make it worth doing. In which case put me down for one.



It's possible - I did for a moment wonder about acrylic - be nice to have a transparent one. It would be nice to get some CAD drawings - in the absence I'll have to spend an hour of so and knock one up.

I've just got off the phone with a local laser cutting firm and it looks like that will be the cheapest method going - they want a dwg\dxf to work out the laser paths and hence the cost but from what he was saying I can't see the cutting cost exceeding £10 per item.

On the question of rings - how many and what inner diameters would be sufficient?

Also would there be a preference for the 8mm\4mm combo or for the 6mm\3mm ones - or whatever is cheaper?

The one operation that they can't do is create the shoulder - will have a look into who to get that done by.

Also router mounting holes - what makes of routers would people be looking to fit to these things? As the plates would most likely be laser cut - it is possible to have a few different mounting holes done. Will enquire whan I have done the CAD work.

I'll keep you informed of developments.


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## Dibs-h

Update:

Laser cut :- for 2 rings and plate, Aluminium (6\3 combo) is about £20 and Clear Acrylic (8\3 combo - 4 is an odd size) is about £15. All plus VAT. That's based on plate being A4 size. And getting 10 sets.

Thoughts?


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## Lord Nibbo

Well if you want to make a list up, add me down for an Ally one.


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## Dibs-h

Lord Nibbo":ca71rzjz said:


> Well if you want to make a list up, add me down for an Ally one.



LN - We either have 10 Ali sets *or *10 acrylic sets or 10 acrylic *and *10 Ali.

Seeing as how Tony's was ali and got people salivating - be safe to say lets go with ali, unless otherwise stated.

So the following have expressed interest,

- CrazyLilting (at least 1)
- Gill
- Riley
- Skywriter
- Wizer
- Lord Nibbo
- me obviously (perhaps 2)


So by my count we are at 8 units (at least). We need approx 2 more.

So far the price is around £20 per plate (in 6mm) + 2 rings (in 3mm). We should be able to beat that price as it's the 1st price. The only operation that hasn't been priced up is creating the shoulder in the centre ring - but I'll get a price for that. Be very suprised if it added a great deal to the cost.

Can people confirm their interest - if we get at least 10, I'll do the CAD work - post up the PDF and once people are happy, haggle\hassle the several firms that can do the work for the cheapest price possible. 

I'm from Yorkshire - so you know that's going to be a tight price! :wink:


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## Paul Chapman

Put me down for one as well, please.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer

Thanks for looking into this Dibs. I don't think you need to worry about holes for routers. We can do tha ourselves. I'd prefer not to have holes where they're not needed. I know Tony made those holes for DE but I won't be needing to do it that way.


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## Karl

Put me down for one as well.

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman

If possible, it would be helpful to have the plate drilled and tapped for a lead-in pin.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer

A4 Seems a little big ? Is there a reason for this size?


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## Dibs-h

So the following have expressed interest,

- CrazyLilting (at least 1)
- Gill
- Riley
- Skywriter
- Wizer
- Lord Nibbo
- me obviously (perhaps 2)
- Paul
- Karl

We have at least 10 - I'll get on with the CAD work tomorrow eve - got to go collect the ridge tiles\visqueen for the workshop build.

The one bit I forgot was the Pin thingymajig - someone know the dimensions we should be using and I think it's 1 pin, but 2 possible locations? Metal pin - possibly turned down and a thread in the last bit. Aluminium or Steel pin?


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## Dibs-h

Paul - that's the thing. I don't have an insert - any suggestions\preferences for size, location, height, etc.?

Wizer - did a google this afternoon and 12" x9" seemed awfully common. Virtually A4 size. Hence suggesting A4 as a size for the 1st quote. I don't really have a preference either way - so if the gang thought it should be a little smaller or a little bigger - no probs. Feel free to make suggestions!!


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## wizer

I think I'd like a plate to be smaller than the norm. But I'm also open to suggestions and will go with the flow.

Correct, One lead pin, 2 location. It could be a turned and threaded steel pin. Or if it's going to cost, I'd rather just make my own out of a bolt. Including drilling and tapping the hole.


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## Gill

I'm not familiar with this engineering malarkey and don't think I could put the screw holes in to mount my Trend T9  . Is it very difficult?


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## wizer

Gill, drilling Alu is very easy. You just need to mark the holes and drill, then counter sink. So special tools needed.


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## JeremyM

Dibs-h
I would also be very interested -updating from my triton table which has never been satisfactory :x is becoming a priority. I had been considering making the Gifkins table see http://www.gifkins.com.au but would like the flexibility of a plate. I'm thinking re 2 plates and 6 insert rings at the moment but a little research is required.

Thanks for looking into this.

Jeremy


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## Gill

wizer":1z6ffzru said:


> Gill, drilling Alu is very easy. You just need to mark the holes and drill, then counter sink. So special tools needed.



Thanks Tom - I'm up for that  .


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## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":21m7op3h said:


> ollect the ridge tiles\visqueen for the workshop build.
> 
> The one bit I forgot was the Pin thingymajig - someone know the dimensions we should be using and I think it's 1 pin, but 2 possible locations? Metal pin - possibly turned down and a thread in the last bit. Aluminium or Steel pin?



I think the pin should be steel, stainless if not too expensive difficult.
Also if you get the lip for the inset rings worked out it would be worth while checking if making one of the inset rings sized and lipped to fit the PC bushes would not add too much to the cost 

Put me down for one anyway may be 2 depending on the final price.

I hope you don't mind I've posted a link on to the FOG UK section so there ma be some interest from them as well.


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## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":vnjbz1f2 said:


> The one bit I forgot was the Pin thingymajig - someone know the dimensions we should be using and I think it's 1 pin, but 2 possible locations? Metal pin - possibly turned down and a thread in the last bit. Aluminium or Steel pin?



Here is the detail from the MLCS plate I have just got. The centre ring is stepped for a PC bush






There are 2 holes for the guide pin that is not threaded (Woops make that 6 holes)









I hope this is enough information for you.


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## crazylilting

Dibs,
I think there are already drawings made for the table in question. Just user search Tony's posts it's in there somewhere.


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## Dibs-h

Wizer - how much smaller would you like it? Tony's original design is actually bigger.

Crazy Lilting - found Tony's drawings - they're PDF's. All the laser cutters I've spoken to want DWG\DXF - not really an issue - should take about an hour or so with AutoCAD.

On the subject of pin - I did think about a bolt and needle roller bearing? Or is that asking for trouble when using it? I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.

In terms of the dia of the hole in the plate and of the rings - I was thinking that we should perhaps use the size of those comemrcially available. That way if someone lost or damaged a ring - you wouldn't be stuffed. How does a 90mm opening in the plate sound?

Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?

FOG UK - what\who are FOG?

Router mounting holes - some could easily do them whilst others may want to have them done for them, if the laser is running and it adds a fractional cost - may just be easier to supply the plate with the holes already done. What does the gang think?

As for the dust extraction holes - we wouldn't look to include them as it would be easy enough for someone do do it themselves.

Had a call back this morning from one of the local machining shops I use - the cost is at least twice if it is done in the traditional manner. So lasercut it is.


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## Racers

Hi, Dibs-h

I have pm you re router insert.


Pete


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## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":2dl0bkkx said:


> I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.



A 6mm or 8mm thread would work



> In terms of the dia of the hole in the plate and of the rings - I was thinking that we should perhaps use the size of those comemrcially available. That way if someone lost or damaged a ring - you wouldn't be stuffed. How does a 90mm opening in the plate sound?


The MLCS plate has a 98mm through hole with a 103.9 major dia. so a 3mm lip


> Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?



Yes, many people supply them, LeeValley is one http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1


> FOG UK - what\who are FOG?



Festool Owners Group the posting is at http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=7964.0



> Router mounting holes - some could easily do them whilst others may want to have them done for them, if the laser is running and it adds a fractional cost - may just be easier to supply the plate with the holes already done. What does the gang think?



Probably no holes for me.


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## Paul Chapman

Dibs-h":rg5sdvrv said:


> On the subject of pin - I did think about a bolt and needle roller bearing? Or is that asking for trouble when using it? I think a metal (steel or ali or s\s) pin with a threaded portion probably be the easiest and cheapest - i.e. there won't be a shoulder.
> 
> 
> Also as someone mentioned - would there be an interest in having a ring made that could accept router bushes - say the Trend (or other) set? I'm assuming PC is Port Cable?



I would have thought a plain pin would be best, like this

http://images.fotopic.net/yp1a3j.jpg

The problem with supplying a ring that takes guide bushes, is that they have to be lined up so that they are concentric with the cutter. This might be problematic if people are drilling the holes to mount the router themselves - there will be no guarantee that the router will be mounted accurately enough to ensure that the guide bush is concentric.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Neil

Yes please for me too (in aluminium). The 12"x9" (306mm x 229mm) size that sometimewoodworker showed seems to be the most standard size for router plates (Rosseau, Trend, Axminster are all this size too)

Cheers,
Neil


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## Dibs-h

On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.

On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?

If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?

As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.


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## Paul Chapman

Dibs-h":3l7kfxt2 said:


> On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has.



Being able to fit the rings with machine screws is a good idea in my view.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":3o82t9hz said:


> On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.



No problem with that, If you are going down the engraving rout then concentric rings on the back to assist with routers with non standard hole patterns would be a good idea



> On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?


I would think that 10mm is excessive, any one else?? do the rings need to be fixed? But whatever works is OK.


> If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?
> 
> As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.


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## Dibs-h

sometimewoodworker":ewh9ywij said:


> Dibs-h":ewh9ywij said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the subject of mounting holes - if it is left to people to mark and drill their own holes - then issues of whether rings are concentric come into play. Now since the laser cutters can engrave as well as cut - I feel that the mounting holes for most routers should be engraved\marked on the plates by the laser and the user can drill out which ever ones they require. That way issues of concentricity don't arise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No problem with that, If you are going down the engraving rout then concentric rings on the back to assist with routers with non standard hole patterns would be a good idea
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the issue of lip - I was thinking a 10mm shoulder all the way round and having 3 holes evenly spaced to allow the rings to be semi-permanently fitted with machine screws - in the same ways (it appears) that Tony's design does\has. Or is this something that most folk wouldn't want?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would think that 10mm is excessive, any one else?? do the rings need to be fixed? But whatever works is OK.
> 
> 
> 
> If most peep's didn't want the extra ring for the guide bushes - that's fine as I'm sure the cutters cut produce them for us - as long as we had 10 of them made. The way nbrs are going it'll be around 20 sets - so 10 sets with and 10 without - maybe?
> 
> As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Concentric rings - good idea.

10mm shoulder - if you are screwing them down - then you'd need something of that size. If not screwing them down, you could go smaller.

If most don't want to fix the rings - that's fine, but for me, something you could barely call an inteference fit and a piece of TCT spinning at upto 20k rpm - I'll be screwing them down. 

The other thing is that I suppose is of more concern to me - is what happens if someone who doesn't want to screw them down is provided with a set that can't be screwed down and the ring over time (who knows how long that might be) doesn't fit as well and comes loose whilst in use?

Do we (i.e. me) have some sort of liability type issues?

Don't get me wrong - unless no-one wants one - it is unlikey that this won't go ahead, but I'd rather build safety in than not.


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## Paul Chapman

Dibs-h":3sikygfv said:


> something you could barely call an inteference fit and a piece of TCT spinning at upto 20k rpm - I'll be screwing them down.



I agree - I wouldn't be happy with something loose so close to the cutter. An accident waiting to happen :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Neil

Dibs-h":1muc495j said:


> As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.



Actually, could I make mine a qualified yes, only if you go down the 12"x9" route. As the A4 is smaller, I would have to remake my table top.

Cheers,
Neil


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## Dibs-h

Neil":2g8jm476 said:


> Dibs-h":2g8jm476 said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for size - I'm happy to go with 12"x9" - or A4 (297x210), whatever achieves concensus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, could I make mine a qualified yes, only if you go down the 12"x9" route. As the A4 is smaller, I would have to remake my table top.
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil
Click to expand...

 
Well that's one with a strong preference for 12"x9" - any other strong preferences? 

I'm waiting on a quote back from another laser cutter - hopefully be a better price than the last one as these lot do an awful lot of cutting on an industrial scale. I suspect it will be fairly representative of what the final price is likely to be. This is using Tony's design\size - so our final design (if goes down the road of 12"x9") shouldn't be anymore.

Dibs


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## Lord Nibbo

Dibs-h":3944uwh3 said:


> Well that's one with a strong preference for 12"x9" - any other strong preferences?
> 
> Dibs


 Make that two, I want to replace me Trend so 12" x 9" is the only option for me.


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## Dibs-h

Lord Nibbo":175me7jv said:


> Dibs


 Make that two, I want to replace me Trend so 12" x 9" is the only option for me.[/quote]

Tony's was\is 14.5" x 11.4" (approx) so whatever the quote comes back at - ours should be less.

Where in relation to the centre aperture shold the lead-in pin be?


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## Neil

I can't measure my Trend one until later, but this pic gives some idea. According to tooled-up the largest hole size is 98mm, so I guess the lead-on pins are about 70mm from the centre.

Cheers,
Neil


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## Lord Nibbo

I would prefer to drill my own so I can use the pins I already have but if it's down to a vote I say plain as Paul has suggested.


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## Dibs-h

Lord Nibbo":2j70br2l said:


> I would prefer to drill my own so I can use the pins I already have but if it's down to a vote I say plain as Paul has suggested.



They'd come back from the cutters with all holes as plain - therefore those that wanted them to stay that way - wouldn't be an issue. Those that wanted them threaded and didn't have taps\dies - I'm sure I could be tempted into tapping them - assuming everyone didn't jump into that queue!!

I think plain would be better - the pins are available on the web for £1 - can't be made for that!

If folks didn't want the holes lasering for the leadin pin - again whatever the majority want. At this point it's just a case of getting all the info so that I'm not scrabbling around at the last minute for the drawings to be finalised.

Neil - if you could measure me the location of the pins on your Trend one - that would be great.

Do people think we should perhaps standardise our aperture with commercially available ones - that way should someone want additional rings - they could use someone elses?

Also what about a ring allowing the use of router guide bushes?

Me thinks I'm going to have to do a poll or something. I've seen Polls on the forum - can a multi-question poll be done?


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## Neil

Dibs-h":vojun97e said:


> Neil - if you could measure me the location of the pins on your Trend one - that would be great.



Will do tonight  

Cheers,
Neil


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## skywriter

Anyone recommend a decent router to fit to my new insert plate? lol think its about time I got myself a half way decent machine, especially since my darling wife has hinted that Santa 'might' have one in his sack for me . .


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## wizer

I think you're making this far too complicated. We just need a plate with the rings. All the drilling, tapping, etc can be done later.


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## Dibs-h

wizer":10qmfus2 said:


> I think you're making this far too complicated. We just need a plate with the rings. All the drilling, tapping, etc can be done later.



Yes that's one perspective - but for the moment it's about exploring what the group want, marrying that with what's possible, and trying to make it possible an acceptable price - without someone feeling they didn't somehow get what they wanted.

Don't get me wrong - it would be far easier (for me anyway) just to ask for rectangular plates with a single aperture and 2 rings - but I doubt many here who have expressed an interest would actually want such a no-frills version. Especially when you point out that the laser cutters wouldn't have charged any more to have cut\engraved all the extra holes - that they've faffed about with. Or if they had - it would have added perhaps £1 to the unit price.


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## crazylilting

I like the idea of bushing ability. Not fussed about the holes as i can drill those. As far as rings the more the more it will cost i'm sure. the one i have right now has three and it seems fine.


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## wizer

I'll go with the flow. Let's wait to hear that the price is of the high specced one.

Would it be an idea to supply at least one blank ring with no hole at all in it? That way it can be drilled for a specific bit\operation.


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## Dibs-h

wizer":1p6fcvxt said:


> I'll go with the flow. Let's wait to hear that the price is of the high specced one.
> 
> Would it be an idea to supply at least one blank ring with no hole at all in it? That way it can be drilled for a specific bit\operation.



Don't see why not. As you say - let wait to hear back on the one that is close to Tony's, and we can adjust spec, etc. depending on what the price\flow is.


----------



## Neil

wizer":3rgqyiud said:


> Would it be an idea to supply at least one blank ring with no hole at all in it? That way it can be drilled for a specific bit\operation.


I agree, Tom - the Tilgear plate comes with a blank ring IIRC.

So I measured the starting pin holes on the Trend plate. They are approx. 69mm out from the centre and are 1/4" diameter. A pic:





The corners of the plate have a 1/4" radius in case thats of interest.

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## Dibs-h

Cheers Neil!

On the quote that we are waiting on - there are 2 pin holes. For the purpose of quoting - it doesn't make a difference where the holes are.

Once that comes back - I'll look into getting the shoulder cut.


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs, sorry I've been absent from the thread.
If I may, I'd like to express FIRM interest in a !2" x 9" plate.
Hope I'm not too late.


----------



## Anonymous

Nice to see interest in the router insert once again - I have received a few pms about it lately too.

I have modified the design since the original post as over time the aluminium moved around 0.5mm across the width (dip) which is to be expected from ali which has had the face skimmed and is under load it moves form internal stresses too, just like wood).

I would recommend using 8mm plate for an aluminium version.

My current (around 18 months) version is made form flat-ground steel plate which did not require skimming to keep it dead flat and there has been *no movement at all*. Same inserts are used.

By the way DON'T leave the rings loose - that is simply idiotic!!!


----------



## Anonymous

As there is interest in making some router inserts for members, here are screenshots of my CAD drawings (Solid Edge won't export to jpg and I can't link to PDFs from my ftp location).

*If selling these, please include a declaration that they were designed and original drawings by me.*

Have fun


----------



## Dibs-h

RILEY":2lesz6qt said:


> Dibs, sorry I've been absent from the thread.
> If I may, I'd like to express FIRM interest in a !2" x 9" plate.
> Hope I'm not too late.



Riley

The more the merrier.

I'm awaiting an indicative quote back from the laser cutters - will chase them up on Monday if I haven't heard by then. Once the quote comes back - we'll try and settle on the design and then I'll have the cutters finalise the quote, so everyone knows what specs\costs.

I'll also look into getting the shoulder cut.

As Tony mentioned movement - I would have thought an Acrylic plate insert woild move less that Aluminium. No interest in going down the Acrylic route?

Dibs


----------



## RobertMP

I don't have any experience of router plates to add but I have spent a lot of time working with sheet metals.

Just wondering why aluminium is the metal of choice for a router plate. Steel is stronger and more rigid and easier to work with. Ok it could go rusty if not finished but machine tables are fine with a bit of wax or WD40 on them. Anodised aluminium makes more sense as the anodising case hardens the part making it scratch resistant and taking away the natural tendency of ali to gall and scratch.

We used to punch plate up to 6mm thick and sub out anything thicker to water jet or laser cutting. If I still had a factory and machines to program I'd have gone for two 3mm steel plates joined to make the 6mm thickness - one with a larger hole than the other to provide the ring shoulder (why is it a ring and not a square?). The insert could be screwed down with csk screws securely.

Machining was something to be avoided wherever possible as the cost was too high. Laser cutting is not cheap either - unless the company is scratching for work and just wants to cover costs.

Shame I don't have a CNC metalshop any more


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":kyxjhvk4 said:


> RILEY":kyxjhvk4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dibs, sorry I've been absent from the thread.
> If I may, I'd like to express FIRM interest in a !2" x 9" plate.
> Hope I'm not too late.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Riley
> 
> The more the merrier.
> 
> I'm awaiting an indicative quote back from the laser cutters - will chase them up on Monday if I haven't heard by then. Once the quote comes back - we'll try and settle on the design and then I'll have the cutters finalise the quote, so everyone knows what specs\costs.
> 
> I'll also look into getting the shoulder cut.
> 
> As Tony mentioned movement - I would have thought an Acrylic plate insert woild move less that Aluminium. No interest in going down the Acrylic route?
> 
> Dibs
Click to expand...


Acrylic sounds good to me. 
It looks as though your drawing is for a 238 x 295 plate??
FWIW both the *Axminster and Trend* plates list as 306mm X 229mm as (probably) is my MLCS. So I would much prefer this size
http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionID/ZYH/product-Axminster-Aluminium-Router-Table-Insert-784593.htm
http://www.trend-uk.com/en/JA/product/RTI_PLATE/3/209/router_table_insert_plate_.html


The Kreg is bigger (235 x 298mm(9.1/4" x 11.3/4"))


----------



## Mike Wingate

Make one of these instead of a pin.

http://s130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... Pin%20Jig/

or add a plexiglass/lexan disc to the top of the pin to act as a finger/eye guard.

My set up is a Jessem router lift, with a black annodised finish.


----------



## Dibs-h

sometimewoodworker":1hyijiyd said:


> Acrylic sounds good to me.
> It looks as though your drawing is for a 238 x 295 plate??
> FWIW both the *Axminster and Trend* plates list as 306mm X 229mm as (probably) is my MLCS. So I would much prefer this size
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionID/ZYH/product-Axminster-Aluminium-Router-Table-Insert-784593.htm
> http://www.trend-uk.com/en/JA/product/RTI_PLATE/3/209/router_table_insert_plate_.html
> 
> 
> The Kreg is bigger (235 x 298mm(9.1/4" x 11.3/4"))



Tony's original size was bigger than 12" x 9" - which is what the quote is based on (that I am waiting for). That's just so we have at least a quote to compare different Laser Cutters.

RobertMP - For what we want, Laser cutting is by far cheaper than MachineShop time (even for one with CNC). Lets put it this way - for 20 units (1 plate & 2 rings) in 6mm Aluminium (including material), my first quote was for £20 (approx). That was based on a plate of A4 size (210x297) with 3mm rings. That included 10 holes (4 corners), 3 for rings and 3 for router. This is from a Laser Shop that is known for not being at the cheap end of the spectrum.

I don't think a CNC shop would come close - I use a few local ones occasionally, 1 who did provide a quote. Approx £35 for the plate and £9 each for the 2 rings.


----------



## RobertMP

I'm talking about CNC punching not machining... which is far quicker and cheaper than laser.

edit...

Just for the sake of curiosity... Steel prices I'm out of date with but say £450 a tonne which must be too much. 1 sq ft of 10g BMS CR4 is about 3kg so material cost would be £450/333 = £1.35. x2 plates is £2.70 Programming the machine would have taken me 10 minutes from a DXF so say another £1 a pair. Machine time to punch 2 plates and some smaller parts would be less than 2 minutes so that would be another £1. Bit of labour to remove from the sheet and dress any tags that held the plates in the sheet once cut - say 50p. So grand cost of £5.20. We would have doubled that for a selling price then probably have added a bit more on as 20 sets is a low quantity so £13 or maybe £15 a set in steel. Often thought since we closed down that there were quite a few woodworking items we could have made.. if I'd known about woodworking then


----------



## wizer

The fact that Tony's original plate dipped, concerns me a little.


----------



## Daven

Can you put me down for one as well please?

Thanks

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Daven":6877d534 said:


> Can you put me down for one as well please?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dave



Sure Dave - at this point it's just expressions of interest to help give the cutters an idea of how many units we'd be looking at.

Wizer - I think Tony's original one was 6mm (whereas we'd be looking at 8mm thick) and is larger than the one we are looking at - not by a huge amount but still larger.

I suppose if we went for a smaller plate - that should limit the amount of "dipping". But there again stepping up from 6mm to 8mm shuld also reduce it.


----------



## wobblycogs

I've been debating whether to try to build my first router table or just buy one. I think this is too good an opportunity to miss out on though so it looks like I'll be building one (as long as I can pick all your brains when I get stuck). 

One thing I was wondering about though. Assuming we get the centre milled out would it be much more to also get the relevant holes counter sunk as well? I would also pay a little more for a thicker (8mm) plate to avoid any possibility of flexing.

Thanks for organizing this Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

wobblycogs":3gquoamc said:


> I've been debating whether to try to build my first router table or just buy one. I think this is too good an opportunity to miss out on though so it looks like I'll be building one (as long as I can pick all your brains when I get stuck).
> 
> One thing I was wondering about though. Assuming we get the centre milled out would it be much more to also get the relevant holes counter sunk as well? I would also pay a little more for a thicker (8mm) plate to avoid any possibility of flexing.
> 
> Thanks for organizing this Dibs



I contacted 2 other firms today - it seems for the qty we would be looking at Laser cutting would be more economical than CNC punching.

I could find out what the additional cost would be to get the small holes countersunk - but I suspect most folk would be happy to do that themselves, especially if it kept the costs down. But I can certainly enquire.

Hopefully will have the 2 additional quotes thru tomorrow - these are based on 12"x9" in 8mm for the plate and 4mm for the rings. These will include a 3rd blanking ring for folks who would want to drill their own.

I didn't get round to looking into getting them anodised - but will do so tomorrow. Any preferences on colour? We wouldn't have to get them all anodised - so if some folk didn't want them anodised - we'd just reduce the batch for anodising.


----------



## wizer

As light as possible IMO something that will allow a pencil mark to show.


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":217cv29u said:


> As light as possible IMO something that will allow a pencil mark to show.



Gold? Or too bing bling?


----------



## Neil

Gold would go well with the Incra :wink: 

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## wizer

yes gold should work. As long as they can do matt. Tho not at all bothered if it pushed the prce up.


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":3ghtce44 said:


> yes gold should work. As long as they can do matt. Tho not at all bothered if it pushed the prce up.



Just got off the phone with a local hard anodising firm - a proper Type III hard anodising coating (25 micron thick) will add somewhere in the region of £20 to the cost of each set.

That's the 1st "estimate" - I can't see shaving a great deal off it ringing round. Would folks still be interested? A Type II coating which is still hard but not what BS call Hard Anodized, would add no more than £10 per set. We could get this down - as a Type II coating is done by more people. 

Type II isn't as hard as Type III.


----------



## Paul Chapman

Dibs-h":3bo60nbw said:


> Just got off the phone with a local hard anodising firm - a proper Type III hard anodising coating (25 micron thick) will add somewhere in the region of £20 to the cost of each set.
> 
> That's the 1st "estimate" - I can't see shaving a great deal off it ringing round. Would folks still be interested?



It's starting to get a bit expensive and about the same cost as buying a good insert plate from a shop. Not sure that I'd want to bother with anodising if it's going to cost that much.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Gill

Definitely getting too pricey for me, but thanks for looking into it  .


----------



## wizer

Yes I was worried this was going to go above the threshold of cheapness. If it can't be done for £20 then it's really not worth your time. Thanks for the effort. If you keep your eyes peeled, I'm sure the Alu plate from Axi or Tilgear will eventually be discounted.


----------



## Dibs-h

That's not a problem folks.

Can you let me know if anybody still wants some\one - without the anodising, as anodising did come up as a bit of a thought at the tail-end.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## chris_d

Hi Dibs,

Could you please confirm the current estimated price based on a 10 off build? I recall that you were waiting for fabricators to respond.

Cheers,
C

P.S. I'm against anodising if it increases the price by 50%.


----------



## Dibs-h

chris_d":2itfls6o said:


> Hi Dibs,
> 
> Could you please confirm the current estimated price based on a 10 off build? I recall that you were waiting for fabricators to respond.
> 
> Cheers,
> C
> 
> P.S. I'm against anodising if it increases the price by 50%.



£20 - give a take a few pounds. That doesn't include the shoulder being cut - but hopefully that can be done for the give or take a few pounds bit. I might look into the advice by someone, to have a chat with the model engineering club to see if we can get someone to do that (to keep costs down).


----------



## Mike Wingate

I use 5 insert discs. One of which has 3 different sized sub-inserts, for minimum clearance on small pieces. You need a couple at least, so factor that into your costs. The finish from a laser is top quality, a highly polished cut edge.


----------



## halken

Hi dibs can you add me to your list and i would like to be able to use guide bushes if everyone agrees. how would you want paying cheque or postal order or paypal? what about postage have you got the cost of this worked out i am not botthered about adonizing the insert but another vote for 8mm thick from me. im not bothered about the size i'll go with the majority

cheers


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs. I'm in, if you'll have me (so to speak...)
Thanks for organising this. 
I know these things can turn out to be a pain in the buttocks, with everyone wanting different things.
I'll go with whatever you decide mate.
Cheers .
Adam.


----------



## Dibs-h

Chaps - I factored in originally 2 rings. Now it's 3 - 1 undrilled, as was suggested.

I spoke to a firm that does water cutting as well as laser cutting - this was a bit educational, from the perspective that around 8mm onwards - laser can't cut holes where the diameter of the hole is less than the material thickness. I spoke to another laser firm today (who will also provide a quote) who confirmed this. Seems a bit odd that none of the firms spoken with thus far have mentioned this. I'll raise it when their quotes come thru.

The water cutting\laser firm will provide quotes for both - be interesting to see what the difference is.

As for payment - I'd say hold fire, at the moment expressions of interest are sufficient and it's a case of lets see what's possible and for how much and then we as a group can decide what to do. It may all come to nothing - bloody hope not. :wink: 

I'll keep you informed.

p.s. Postage - not a clue, but those on the Yorkshire-Midlands run might get theirs dropped off. I'll work out what the weight & postage might be.


----------



## wobblycogs

Price is a bit high with anodizing but I'd be happy without as long as we can keep it below £20. 

While researching home made CNC machines a little while back I came across a guy that had made his own laser cutting machine. I might not be remembering correctly but I thought he said that he didn't have to cut the full depth of the material. Something to do with the laser only cutting where it was focused. If we could get an accurate circular trench cut, say 1mm wide by 4mm deep, routing out the rest for the shoulder should be fairly easy I would have though.


----------



## sometimewoodworker

I'm still interested, though without a more definite price I can't say if I would want anodising (if you are still planning on getting some done) or plain.


----------



## crazylilting

Put me down for 5 and if they go above £25 then put me down for 4 please.

Thanks so much for all your hard work!!!

=D>


----------



## Mike Wingate

Re laser focus. You cannot really use a laser as a milling machine to cut an exact depth. The edge left by a laser is tapered, all to do with the focus. this can be used to your advantage, for inserts, etc.


----------



## Dibs-h

Right folks 1st proper quote has come back - water jet cutting bizarely enough!

8mm Plate - 300x225
qty - Price
10 - 14.50
20 - 12.45

Ring 1 - 30mm hole (inner hole)
qty - Price
10 - 2.15
20 - 2.00

Ring 2 - 50mm hole (inner hole)
qty - Price
10 - 2.30
20 - 2.10

Plain Disc
qty - Price
10 - 1.85
20 - 1.75

Giving a set price (1 plate + 3 rings\discs) of

*10 Qty = 20.80
20 Qty = 18.35*

This doesn't include the cost of creating the shoulder - which I'll look into shortly. I'm assuming this is still a goer? 

I suspect we'll hit 20 sets.

To keep the costs down - I can alter the CAD drawings to include mounting holes for any router (assuming you tell me which one), and email them to folk so they can use the print as a template and accurately drill the mounting holes. Interested?


----------



## Racers

Hi, Dibs-h

Yes I am interested and I don't mind drilling my own holes.


Pete


----------



## Dibs-h

for a 4mm hole - it costs less than 10p on each plate.

There was a slight error on the 1st quote - they'd assumed the discs\rings were also 90 mm as opposed to 110mm, and they'd only quoted for the 4 corner holes.

8mm Plate - 300x225 [9 holes - 6 mounting holes + 3 for rings\disc]
qty - Price
10 - 14.90
20 - 13.15

Ring 1 - 30mm hole (inner hole)
qty - Price
10 - 3.15
20 - 2.85

Ring 2 - 50mm hole (inner hole)
qty - Price
10 - 3.55
20 - 3.25

Plain Disc
qty - Price
10 - 2.75
20 - 2.50

Giving a set price (1 plate + 3 rings\discs) of

*10 Qty = 24.35
20 Qty = 21.75*

There probably isn't any mileage to getting the mounting holes put in the rings as you could drop the rings in and use the holes in the plate as a guide.

This is probably a more reflective price - now just need to get the cost worked out for the shoulder cut. The 30mm and 50mm diameter holes were just 2 sizes chosen to give an idea - if folks felt these needed altering - no probs. But for the moment lets just use these sizes to get comparisons. Assuming it pans out and we decide to go ahead - then we can decide on the final hole sizes on the 2 rings.


----------



## Paul Chapman

I'd be happy at that sort of price.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## chris_d

I'm in and happy to drill my own router mounting holes.

BTW - I'm surpised that cutting the 50mm diameter inner ring is markedly more expensive than the 30mm since I doubt they could accurately/reliably measure the additional energy used by the water jet compared to its startup/ramp-down overhead. Also, with the 50mm ring, they get more waste to recycle!

Cheers,
C


----------



## chris_d

Also, with regard to the shoulder, couldn't one of our spinny friends cut it on a metal lathe or is that too dangerous? You could use the router mounting holes to tool for the lathe's chuck.


----------



## Dibs-h

chris_d":1gdui4p8 said:


> I'm in and happy to drill my own router mounting holes.
> 
> BTW - I'm surpised that cutting the 50mm diameter inner ring is markedly more expensive than the 30mm since I doubt they could accurately/reliably measure the additional energy used by the water jet compared to its startup/ramp-down overhead. Also, with the 50mm ring, they get more waste to recycle!
> 
> Cheers,
> C



As folks will all have different routers - best not to have them done by the cutters. If there is anyone in the group who doesn't have a pillar drill or isn't comfortable doing it with a hand drill - I'd be happy to pre-drill yours to your router before sending it out. (Now don't all jump in that queue!)

The circumference on a 50mm cut is 157mm approx, whilst for the 30mm is approx 94mm - that's a noticeable difference and would explain a noticeable difference in price. As for the waste - bet they don't pay to get it removed but probably get paid by those that collect it.

Most shops know what the speed of the cut is, in certain materials\thicknesses and their software can work out what they should charge. Obviously if it errs on the side of anything - it'll err on the side of the cutter making money.

I don't think you'd want that plate in a lathe. I assume a cutter in a milling nachine would be able to do the shoulder easily enough. Even if it was fractionally off centre - it wouldn't be an issue as long as it was perfectly round for the ring\disc to drop into.

I'll have chat with the shop down my road - they have CNC and normal m\cs and are amenable to competitive cash pricing.


----------



## halken

im happy with that price and i dont mind drlling my own holes for my big triton


----------



## Matt_S

I'd be interested in one, may make me build a router table! Keep thinking about it.

A dumb question, why would you need 2 or 3 inserts? For if you have multiple routers?

I got a pillar drill so would be happy to drill my own holes as long as it doesn't need tapping or anything else?


----------



## Paul Chapman

Matt_S":2za58t9j said:


> A dumb question, why would you need 2 or 3 inserts?



Because you will use different diameter router bits and it's better to keep the gap between the cutter and the edge of the insert as small as possible.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## skywriter

I'm still interested in a set please. 


Suggestions needed as to which router to fit to it, santas promised me a new router for christmas as i've been a 'good boy' this year lol :lol:


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs, at that price, I think you could probably sell them wholesale!
Put me down for one (or two...)
Cheers for all your hard work.
Adam.


----------



## Dibs-h

RILEY":3oaavlv7 said:


> Dibs, at that price, I think you could probably sell them wholesale!
> Adam.



Probably could - but it wouldn't be profitable. :wink: 

As per the first post in this thread (mine anyway) - these are all being done at cost for forum members, i.e.

quoted cost (20 sets) / 20 = set price(1)

quoted cost (10 sets) / 10 = set price (2)

For the relatively small profit one could make it's seriously not worth the hassle of HSE, HMRC or a lawyer should someone sleep use a set. 
:roll:

However, once my "metal working workshop" gets built (garage basement) - never say never! :wink:


----------



## paininthe

Could you add me to your list, thanks


----------



## Dibs-h

I've just had a quote thru for laser cutting - the plates (alone) are coming in at £16.14 each based on 25 units, so it seems water cutting is the way to go. Whereas the water cutting quote was £13.90 for 20.

I'll stop looking into more laser quotes and get a few more water cutting quotes. That way we'll know whether the one quote we've had is representative or not.

paininthe - no probs.


----------



## Dibs-h

Just got a laser quote back that I had requested a few days agao - nearly fell off the chair! *£8.65 a set. 
*
Now before you all start queing up - they made a slight cockup, they've quoted for 8mm mild steel for everything and not 8mm plate & 4mm rings in aluminium.

I've asked them to requote for 8mm plate and 4mm rings in alumuinium .

I have also asked for a quote for 6mm plate and 3mm rings, in stainless. Be interesting what the new quotes come back as. Will keep you informed.

I'm going to leave the machining alone for a mo - let's settle on the most cost affective cutter first and then I'll find someone for the shoulder operation.

*p.s. Just incase there's any confusion - all the prices are excluding VAT (which if we get it all sorted this year will be 15%) - that's how they all quote.*


----------



## Dibs-h

Right then - had the reworked quote back - well suprised would be putting it politely.

Quote 2.

Aluminium (1050 grade)
8mm Plate - 10.83
4mm Rings - 1.40 (30mm), 1.43 (50mm), 1.23 (no hole)

*Set Price - 14.89*


Stainless (304 grade)
6mm plate - 11.74
3mm Rings - 1.52 (30mm), 1.54 (50mm), 1.42 (no hole)

*Set Price - 16.22*

You'll agree those are the cheapest prices we've had so far. (obviously + vat)

These cutters did confirm that the smallest diameter hole they could do it 8mm aluminium is 5mm. So the plate mounting holes are 5mm as are the ring mounting holes (for the sake of getting a comparable quote). Obviously the 5mm holes may not be suitable (or may) for the rings at which point we may or may get them done by laser.

But for the saving over the previous quotes - I don't see why we couldn't get the shoulder cut and be around the £20 per set price.

I'll try and get someone to price up the shoulder cut.


----------



## Daven

Sounds great - thanks for putting so much time and effort in to this!

I would prefer stainless but happy to go with the flow.

Thanks

Dave


----------



## wizer

I like the idea of steel because it's magnetic.


----------



## Dibs-h

*So folks - would there be any takers for Stainless over Aluminium?*

Also 304 (or any of the 300 series) aren't magnetic due to the inclusion of Nickel. The 400 series of Stainless are Magnetic - I can ask what the % cost difference might be, if it is of interest?

I would expect the stainless to be "dip" less and suffer less thermal expansion (if it's an issue) than stainless. Also stainless wouldn't need anodising. Stainless has a harness RC92 versus RC34 for Aluminium. Tensile strength etc - goes without saying steel is noticeably stronger.

The prices were for a set of 20 - which looks a likely number.

*Edit: *Just enquired - they don't hold stock of 400 series stainless - so it's 304 grade unless someone feels 304 is not adequate.


----------



## wizer

oh that's a shame. Well I still think stainless is the better bet.


----------



## wobblycogs

I'm happy to go with the crowd but would prefer stainless steel. Magnetic stickyness would be nice to have as well if possible. 

Out of interest though, how easy is it to machine SS? I have a few HSS bits but no pillar drill (I've a good line in SDS though and this might be an excuse to get a new toy ).


----------



## RobertMP

wobblycogs":229ny7bt said:


> how easy is it to machine SS? I have a few HSS bits but no pillar drill (I've a good line in SDS though and this might be an excuse to get a new toy ).



You really need cobalt drills as HSS will not do it. Well it will but you may not get more than a couple of holes out of the bit before it blunts. Countersinking holes could be a problem. On the plus side it is seriously tough stuff and you can get away with much thinner material.


----------



## Dibs-h

RobertMP":351rsjgk said:


> wobblycogs":351rsjgk said:
> 
> 
> 
> how easy is it to machine SS? I have a few HSS bits but no pillar drill (I've a good line in SDS though and this might be an excuse to get a new toy ).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You really need cobalt drills as HSS will not do it. Well it will but you may not get more than a couple of holes out of the bit before it blunts. Countersinking holes could be a problem. On the plus side it is seriously tough stuff and you can get away with much thinner material.
Click to expand...


I suppose one could drop down to a 4mm plate and 2mm rings - anything else is likely to be a perhaps a bit too thin. Unless folks really fancy a 2mm plate and 1mm rings wink: ). I've just emailed the cutters asking whether 4mm for the plate and 2mm for the rings is possible (i.e. stock material). Not asked for a re-quote, working on the assumption that it should be a little less, but if I keep asking for re-quotes, I'll end up p1ssing them off.

As for the cobalt bit (cheers for the mention Robert)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5mm-COBALT-DRILL- ... 83fffd6d81

I'm sure for the £1 each the Group Buy could stretch to one of them, per set as well.


----------



## wizer

I'm all for lowering the price as much as we can but I have no way to tell if the plate will dip over time.


----------



## Karl

Dibs - can you take my name off the list please. I've just picked up a new router table, so won't be needing an insert plate.

Cheers

Karl


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":xcupffvw said:


> I'm all for lowering the price as much as we can but I have no way to tell if the plate will dip over time.



If we go for stainless - I'd say stick with 6mm for the plate and 3mm for the rings - might be over-engineered, but we are unlikley to get any issues with it going forward.

Can't be bothered to work out the deflection geven the length and assuming a point load - although might do it if I'm bored.


----------



## RobertMP

Support a sheet of 2mm stainless around its edges and you can jump up and down on the middle of the panel without denting it. We never made anything over 1m long in 2mm stainless as our 50 ton press brakes struggled to bend it.

So 4mm will never 'dip over time'


----------



## wobblycogs

I would rather go for an 8mm plate and be completely sure it will remain true even if it means buying more than one drill bit. I'm sure a 4mm plate would probably do it but I would rather go for something that is over engineered. I also doubt the extra thickness greatly affects the price.

A thought just occured to me though. Would it be possible to hold the rings in magnetically? I realize it's not a secure as screws but it's better than no fixing which some people seemed happy with.


----------



## RobertMP

when you go to thicker gauges in stainless sheet they tend to have more of a fabricators steel plate surface finish to them - smooth but not bright. Thinner gauges like 2mm or less are readily available with one side pre finished - semi polished, brushed or mirror polish and come with peel off plastic coating on the good side. The plastic gets cut along with the plate and protects the surface during handling. Stainless is not too hard to polish with a powered mop... just takes some time from a mill finish start.

Oh and if planning the best sheet use... stock sizes were 2000 x 1000mm and 1250 x 2500mm. Stainless and ally are sometimes stocked in old imperial sizes of 6 x 3 and 8 x 4 but not too common now.


----------



## Dibs-h

RobertMP":2u1cfeqh said:


> Support a sheet of 2mm stainless around its edges and you can jump up and down on the middle of the panel without denting it. We never made anything over 1m long in 2mm stainless as our 50 ton press brakes struggled to bend it.
> 
> So 4mm will never 'dip over time'



Whilst it may not dent - it will deflect, whether that deflection is of significance to people is another matter. I do believe for a plate of those dimensions the deflection in either case with be negligible - i.e. in normal use you would need to get your feeler gauges out to measure the deflection.

However, if the cost difference is minor - then go with 6mm plate & 3mm rings in Stainless. After all it's not titanium or anything. :wink: Or whatever folks want to go with. Next time I'm visiting my friendly SE, I might get him to do the calcs on his fancy software.

*Edit:* Robert - we aren't supplying the sheet, so whatever the cutters use is their business. I've just asked for a total cost, i.e. cutting and supply of material. I appreciate what you are saying but for a zero profit group buy - it's easier just to get the cutters to supply the material - the price they would get it at, we'd never come close, and if they put a markup on it - who cares. Saves us the hassle.


----------



## RobertMP

Not trying to rain on peoples ideas here but the more i think about it the worse an idea stainless steel sounds to me.

It really is incredibly tough stuff. yes a cobalt drill will drill it but even that is not easy. Trying to get it from a blank with a few holes in to something with all the fixings in is going to be a nightmare and beyond many people.

How are you going to attach a router to it? what about the screw heads. How will the inserts be held? Sorry if this is explained previously - I've not read the entire thread.

Ordinary mild steel is so much more forgiving to work with - you can tap threaded holes in it with a cheap carbon steel tap for a start.... and countersink a fixing hole for the router. You can thread a hole in stainless - with a HSS tap and a great deal of care and lubricant.

Both materials weld easy enough but not many people have welding facilities plus welding = heat distortion, so it will need to be a mechanical fixings design.


----------



## RobertMP

Dibs-h":e2315nov said:


> *Edit:* Robert - we aren't supplying the sheet, so whatever the cutters use is their business. I've just asked for a total cost, i.e. cutting and supply of material. I appreciate what you are saying but for a zero profit group buy - it's easier just to get the cutters to supply the material - the price they would get it at, we'd never come close, and if they put a markup on it - who cares. Saves us the hassle.



you'll pay for a whole sheet even if you only use 2/3rds of it. just thinking if it worked out to say 24 sets from a sheet the overall cost wouldn't change much if you increased the order from 20 etc.


----------



## Dibs-h

RobertMP":b09nhaj4 said:


> Dibs-h":b09nhaj4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Edit:* Robert - we aren't supplying the sheet, so whatever the cutters use is their business. I've just asked for a total cost, i.e. cutting and supply of material. I appreciate what you are saying but for a zero profit group buy - it's easier just to get the cutters to supply the material - the price they would get it at, we'd never come close, and if they put a markup on it - who cares. Saves us the hassle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you'll pay for a whole sheet even if you only use 2/3rds of it. just thinking if it worked out to say 24 sets from a sheet the overall cost wouldn't change much if you increased the order from 20 etc.
Click to expand...


Ah - I see what you mean - I will ask the cutters (on monday) what size sheet they are using and how many sets would result from using the whole sheet.

As for countersinking - after a bit of Googling,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -21819.htm

indicates that it can be used on Stainless.

In terms of a plate - the only holes that would need drilling are those for the router - 4 holes. As well as the 3 matching holes in the rings, using the 3 holes in the plate as a guide.

I appreciate stainless is harder than mild and a lot harder than aluminum, but we aren't dealing with case hardened steel nor boron steel (which is usually end up being 1 cobalt drill bit per hole). I'll get a scrap of stainless and see how it drills (tomorrow or on Monday).

I'll go with the flow - but do like the idea of a stainless plate and rings - it's not something you see often, would rust and a little bit of time with a polishing mop and compound and it would look amazing.


----------



## Jake

Having just been drilling and countersinking 3mm stainless angle for my kitchen, the drilling is not going to be a problem - better with a pillar drill but doable with a cordless with enough pressure. Countersinking much better on a drill press and perfectly feasible. I haven't had to thread it though.

It's easy enough (but time consuming) to go from mill finish to a satin brushed finish with a belt sander.


----------



## paininthe

Cutting / drilling stainless. Stainless work hardens, so when drilling the drill should never be allowed to rub. Once the cut has started carry on till finished. If it is allowed to rub the surface hardens and will be a devil to get started again with normal drills. I've done quite a bit with stainless and that was our only rule.


----------



## Mike.C

wobblycogs":33500xaz said:


> I would rather go for an 8mm plate and be completely sure it will remain true even if it means buying more than one drill bit. I'm sure a 4mm plate would probably do it but I would rather go for something that is over engineered. I also doubt the extra thickness greatly affects the price.
> 
> A thought just occured to me though. Would it be possible to hold the rings in magnetically? I realize it's not a secure as screws but it's better than no fixing which some people seemed happy with.



Incra's Magnalock system using earth magnets seem to work ok, so I am sure that you could adapt your plate to work with these after you receive it.

http://www.incra.com/product_rta_magnalock.htm

I have the Woodpecker plate http://www.woodpeck.com/aluminsert.html but I think that this system would be harder (and make your inserts more expensive) to make.

Cheers

Mike


----------



## crazylilting

I like the idea of steel as well. Can you tell me what size the plate is? The hole in my table is 12 x 9 so i'm crossing my fingers, but if i need to change the table it isn't that much of a deal.


----------



## Aled Dafis

Guys

I used to design stainless steel bakery equipment for a while, and can categorically state that Stainless is a complete bu**!r to drill, I'd say that Cobalt drills are a must for people that aren't used to drill Stainless, as "Paininthe" mentioned above, it work hardens the moment your drill stops cutting. A pillar drill is also a must if you're talking about drilling 8mm plate. Drilling countersinks will also be a pain.

As regards cutting threads, I'd stay well clear. Stainless steel galls very easily, and tends to friction weld itself to your taps if you don't work VERY CAREFULLY and use loads of lubricant, once the tap has welded itself in your workpiece it's curtains I'm afraid.

If I was making the decision (and I won't as I have a Triton router mounted in the cast iron wing of my jet tablesaw) I'd definately go for the 8mm Mild Steel option for a number of reasons. Firstly it's by far the cheapest option so far, secondly Mild Steel can be easily drilled, tapped, countersunk etc., and 8mm mild steel will be plenty stiff enough for your insert. Corrposion neddn't be an issue if you polish it with some wax every now and again, it's what most of us do to our table saws, planers etc, and it'll kepp the surface nice and slick.

I'd also go for plastic or aluminium inserts, just in case a spinning cutter should come into contact with them, carbide and steel are not the best of friends!

Cheers

Aled

Edit: If you're laser cutting Stainless there's a good chance that the edge of the cut will have been hardened by the localised heat generated by the laser. I once had some gauge plate laser cut, and the hardened edge took off the teeth of a brand new turnip file :shock: :shock: , Stainless shouldn't be so bad, but you have been warned.


----------



## wizer

Sorry I missed that it was Stainless we were talking about. Definitely prefer mild steel.


----------



## chris_d

Hi Dibs,

Many thanks for leading with such vigour! The more I think about this, the more I'm inclined to suggest that the fabricator(s) should drill, counter-sink and tap the holes for retaining the rings and supply the appropriate counter-sunk screws. 

My reasoning for this is as follows:
1. If the end-user's router base aperture has a smaller diameter than that of the inner edge of the ring retention shoulder, then they cannot use a simple machine screw, spring washer and nut combination to retain the ring as these would interfere with the router base;
2. If we decide to work in stainless steel then the effort/tooling required to tap for the ring retention solution is off putting.

Hence, I suggest that if we go for S/S then the ring retention system should be delivered by the fabricator leaving only the router mounting holes to be drilled and counter-sunk by the end-user. If we go for aluminium or M/S then it is far more straight forward for the end-user to finalise the ring retention solution themselves.

Does this sound stupid?

Cheers,
C

P.S. Personally, I'd prefer a softer material (aluminium or M/S) and for the fabricator(s) to deliver the ring retention solution giving the least amount of initial effort for the end-user to get started but allowing the maximum margin for bodgeability in the future.


----------



## Lord Nibbo

wizer":2z8btnbe said:


> I like the idea of steel because it's magnetic.


 Depends on which type of stainless it is, so magnets might not work.


----------



## Aled Dafis

Lord Nibbo":3o48f3km said:


> wizer":3o48f3km said:
> 
> 
> 
> I like the idea of steel because it's magnetic.
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on which type of stainless it is, so magnets might not work.
Click to expand...


Even if you go for the 400 series of Stainless Steel eg 430 grade, it's quite a bit less magnetic that Mild steel, so magblocks etc. may not be as effective as you may have thought.

Cheers

Aled


----------



## Dibs-h

Tom - yeah sorry mate, I was talking stainless.

The fabricators\cutters don't carry any 400 series stainless, so it would be a choice between 304, aluminium or mild steel. As someone has pointed out the beds of most of our machines are mild steel - I don't see a problem with that. 

If we went for mild steel - then the reduction in cost i.e. <£9 would allow us to get the extra machining done for the rings, etc. and be back up to the same sort of cost as Stainless\Aluminium. There's no reason not to have the holes done in the rings as holes are likely to be around pence each.

Chris_d - if we went with the ring solution you propose then I suspect the screw holes in the plate for holding the rings would need to be a tad bit smaller than the ones in the rings, so once you thread - everything is ok? i.e. 5mm hole in the rings and 4mm in the plate. Probably time to get my tap & die set out and check. :wink:

If folks felt that we should have plastic rings then I can get a quote from one of the cutters that can do acrylic for a quote just for the rings. I suppose at this point we already have an idea of what stuff costs - so perhaps now is the time for those interested to say what they would and would not like.

Options are,

1. All aluminium, plate in 8mm and rings 4mm
2. All stainless, plate in 6mm and rings in 3mm
3. All mild steel, plate in 6mm (can be 8mm) and rings in 3mm (can be in 4mm),
4. Plate in mild steel and rings in plastic (or aluminium).

*Time to vote folks!*

Also if folks went for choices 3 or 4 or even 1, then would you wish to do your own drilling and tapping or want it done for you? If the majority went for do their own (for the few - it needs to be a few - who don't have the gear, I could do yours).

Also the size - so far we seem to have settled on 12"x9" (300x225).

I'm off work this coming week (doing workshop) so progress might be a little slow on this front and I may not be posting as frequently! :wink:

*Edit: Option 3 probably would be easier to arrange - i.e. one supplier for both plates and rings. Having said that could you state your preferred option, but if another option is also acceptable (i.e. secondary option) that would make it easier to gauge what's a goer and what's not. There's no reason why the plate could not be 306x229.*


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":3bv346b6 said:


> T
> 
> Options are,
> 
> 1. All aluminium, plate in 8mm and rings 4mm
> 2. All stainless, plate in 6mm and rings in 3mm
> 3. All mild steel, plate in 6mm (can be 8mm) and rings in 3mm (can be in 4mm),
> 4. Plate in mild steel and rings in plastic (or aluminium).
> 
> *Time to vote folks!*
> 
> Also the size - so far we seem to have settled on 12"x9" (300x225).



I would like 2 plates Option 4 and can tap my own metric threads
FWIW 12"x9" ls closer to 306mm X 229mm.


----------



## chris_d

I'm voting for option 3 please and I'm agnostic between 6/3 or 8/4 stock. Given mild steel then I'm happy to drill, counter-sink and tap myself.

Cheers,
C


----------



## wizer

3

drill\tap my own. I'd like to explore using magnets to hold the rings, but will do that when the plate gets to me.


----------



## wobblycogs

Option 3 please. I would prefer 8/4 if possible as I intend to try making up additional plastic rings on the lathe, I think 4mm would probably be that bit easier to work with.

I have very limited experience drilling metal and none tapping a thread. Willing to learn though.

Thanks dibs, love the workshop BTW good luck with it.


----------



## Daven

*3* for me if Stainless is that hard to drill/tap! 

Dave


----------



## skywriter

Option 3, 8/4 

Drilled and tapped if you could please, still unsure as to what router to get for the new plate, so advice and recommendations would help, currently leaning towards Trend T11.

Many thanks for doing this for us, it's very much appreciated.

Adrian


----------



## paininthe

Option 3 in 8mm normal steel please

Like the idea of magnets


----------



## RobertMP

I've been trying to help rather than thinking of buying one myself but I could be tempted by a mild steel plate with a shoulder machined inside the main hole to take 3mm thick inserts.

Still think 2 x 10g plates laminated together would be the easy way and avoid machining a shoulder but I'll go with the majority.

3mm inserts means I can easily make more myself if needed. Not fussed what material the inserts are made from as I would screw fix them in place and they would never get near a cutter.

Drilling and threading holes in mild steel is easy so I wouldn't need pre drilled holes.

One last thought... this is going to be heavy. will the postage cost kill the deal?


----------



## wizer

Skywriter. The router depends on your budget. The Triton TRA001 (the larger one) is a favourite but is a bit old now. I intend to get a Freud 2000 but they are quite expensive. Any router will do to be honest. It just depends on your budget.


----------



## wobblycogs

The package, 8mm option, will weigh aroung 4.5kg I think (about 528cm3 mild steel at 7.85g/cm3). The cheapest non account holder Parcel Force delivery option is £12.50. I had an account with City Link a couple of years ago and I know that they offer much better rates to account holds, IIRC it was a flat £5 under 10kg anywhere in the UK. 

Failing that could we organize pick-ups? I'd be happy to hold onto plates for people till they can collect them.


----------



## wizer

Parcel2Go is about £8


----------



## Dibs-h

The only person who wouldn't pay delivery is paininthe - as he's down the road so to speak.

I suspect the postage would be the same for 1 plate or 2 - so could send multiples, if some of you are relatively close to each other. I'll try and work out a weight and see what the realistic P&P is likely to be.

Option 3 - i.e. mild steel seems to be the front runner.

Anyways - off to have a cuppa and on with the 'shop. Will check back in later this aft.


----------



## wizer

I'm in no rush, so if anyone's coming to the bash in spring, I'd be happy to combine postage.


----------



## crazylilting

I"m happy with either options of 3 and 4 depending on what is more popular. Thanks for clarification on the size by the way. 8 mm sounds better as well. Wow sounds like we are getting somewhere. A pretty hard thing to organize with so many people involved, Good job. I thought this might of ended up a lot more problems.

I've decided to only go with three, i hope that is ok. I don't have the room for one of my ideas... Or enough routers to go around. I don't want to mount them all either. It's such a pain when i have to do something free hand.


----------



## Aled Dafis

Hi, I was thinking about this in bed last night.

If I was designing this (and I'm not, so please feel free to ignore my ideas if you wish) i'd get the shoulder milled about 12mm wide (10mm would also be fine) and slightly deeper than the insert (say 4.2mm +-0.1mm) so that the inserts can be shimed up flush with the table using whatever you have convenient, fag papers are always good. As a reference, normal writing paper is around 0.1mm thick.

As regards to holding the inserts in place, I'd drill (or laser) 3 or 4 equispaced 8mm holes in the shoulder, and superglue some 8mm rare earth magnets in the holes, these magnets will have *plenty* of holding power to hold the inserts securely.

Cheers

Aled


----------



## Dibs-h

I think the rare earth magnets are a cracking idea. Quick check on the Bay,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Super-Strong-Rare ... 4ceba95797

peanuts. If we had holes done for the rare earth magnets - do you not think we should make the holes a tad bit smaller and go for an inteference fit (warm up the plate, pop the magnet in and once cooled down - sorted)?

Shoulder 12mm wide - can be done as can the depth of the cut. Whatever the majority fancy. If we fell into 1/2 want a full depth shoulder and 1/2 wanted a "shimable" one, then I'm sure we could have 2 types, but not really any more than 2 depths of cut.


----------



## Paul Chapman

Option 3 in 8mm. I would prefer the holes for the rings to be tapped.

Thanks for all your work on this, Dibs.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Daven

wizer":3cjmjjrb said:


> I'm in no rush, so if anyone's coming to the bash in spring, I'd be happy to combine postage.



Tom - as you are round the corner from me, we could double up on postage!?

Dave


----------



## chris_d

wobblycogs":1k00qfw3 said:


> ...I'd be happy to hold onto plates for people till they can collect them.



Hi WC,

Please can I take up your offer if this pans out since I work near Gloucester?

Cheers,
C


----------



## wizer

Daven":zgkgidtx said:


> wizer":zgkgidtx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in no rush, so if anyone's coming to the bash in spring, I'd be happy to combine postage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tom - as you are round the corner from me, we could double up on postage!?
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


oh yes. good idea


----------



## Mike Wingate

Magnets on the insert plates are a good idea, but make sure that they are a long way from the router bit. I would have plastic insert plates. Have you seen what people do to their guide bushes!


----------



## wobblycogs

Certainly Chris that would be fine. As someone said it will probably be the same price to ship one as two so we could split the cost or I might be able to fetch them if it's not too far.


----------



## rileytoolworks

option 3. 8/4. Can drill and tap my own holes.
Many thanks for organizing this dude.
Adam


----------



## Dibs-h

Option 3 - mild steel for plates and rings seems to be almost everyone. For those that are interested in the set and haven't spoken up - *please vote*. I wouldn't want anyone to feel they've been rail-roaded or anything.

Dibs.


----------



## Matt_S

To be honest I'd rather be led. Not used a table before and not sure what the benefits of each would be. I'll be happy with whatever is decided, I won't have known any better! 

Think I said before I have a pillar drill and in law has taps (is that right?) so not a problem if this is required.


----------



## wizer

Matt if you want to combine postage with me and Daven, I'm sure I'll be coming down to see Simon at some point. I could bring it down with me. I imagine we could get three plates posted for £8 to one destination.


----------



## Neil

I think I'll bow out as mild steel seems to be the consensus and I would guess that the postage to Southern Ireland will be pretty astronomic. Also I have a lot of problems battling rust in the workshop already! Thanks for all your hard work, Dibs, looks like you'll have plenty of takers anyway.

Cheers,
Neil


----------



## Anonymous

I've still got to measure the base of my DeWalt 626 to check the size.

Apart from that I want the strongest (preferably most rust proof) solution. I can drill and tap holes (bosch cobalt drill bits are only a few quid from B&Q) (decent quality taps are only a few quid off ebay). Not sure about countersinking but am happy with the challenge.

I'd prefer something that doesn't require magnets (in general I hate the things). 

Cost isn't a great issue as I only intend to buy once. I don't like delivery charges so I'd look at joining with others for a batch delivery (if we can put together a location list I can then see the easiest/best place to have mine delivered - based on family or toolstores or anywhere else that I have an excuse to travel to).

Not sure where that leaves me with the vote. Would be happy with somebody telling me what I need given the above criteria (mainly strength).

Cheers,

Dave


----------



## Anonymous

Just to start off a postage location list....can you add to the list:

Gloucester - DustyDave


----------



## jlawrence

Now I'm back from Paris I'm glad I spotted this thread. I need to build a new router table over the winter.
So I'm in for one. Would prefer mild steel but will go with the flow.


----------



## JeremyM

Option 3, will also be happy to drill and tap. I would go for 3mm inserts.

Thanks

Jeremy


----------



## Lord Nibbo

Like Neil I don't want another another machine I have to clean rust off, so if it is to be steel (option 3) I'll bow out too.


----------



## Dibs-h

Lord Nibbo":1yytvtkp said:


> Like Neil I don't want another another machine I have to clean rust off, so if it is to be steel (option 3) I'll bow out too.



Just because the majority are wanting mild steel - I wouldn't "bow out" right now. Just state you'd prefer either aluminium (which I'd suspect, or Stainless). 

That would be at least 2 sets - we just need another 8 to get the min of 10 sets required for the cutters to do it. It doesn't really bother me if we end up with 2 types - i.e. mild steel for 1 group and Aluminium for the other.

So I'll put your 2 names down for at least 2 sets in Aluminium? Just need to find the other 8 - anyone else for aluminium?


----------



## Boatfixer

Dependant on final cost etc I might be interested in Aluminium...

Thanks
Graham


----------



## jlawrence

I couldn't really care whether it's Aluminium or Steel - so you could put me down for Al.
I'd prefer not SS as that's a sod to work with if you need to alter something in future.


----------



## Lord Nibbo

OK, Keep me down for ally.


----------



## halken

another one for aluminium here


----------



## meders

could you put me down for a aluminium set plz drilled for trend t11


----------



## Dibs-h

Looks like we have about 8 for Aluminium - I think it would be safe to say, there will be a batch of Aluminium ones (can't see us not getting 2 more - ). :lol:

As well as a batch of Mild Steel.

Now for those wanting Steel plates - I suppose there would now be the option of getting all the rings in Aluminium. We'd just increase the rings for the Aluminium batch. Although the Aluminium rings are a little more - would this interest folk?


----------



## wizer

My main interest in Steel was for the use of magnets. I'd even thought about having the rings snap in with magnets. I guess they could be alu with magnets sunk into them. Remind me the size of the shoulder?


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":1aqsmzdv said:


> Looks like we have about 8 for Aluminium - I think it would be safe to say, there will be a batch of Aluminium ones (can't see us not getting 2 more - ). :lol:
> 
> As well as a batch of Mild Steel.
> 
> Now for those wanting Steel plates - I suppose there would now be the option of getting all the rings in Aluminium. We'd just increase the rings for the Aluminium batch. Although the Aluminium rings are a little more - would this interest folk?



I think I would prefer Steel with plastic rings but if you do not have enough for plastic then Aluminium rings will be OK.

Post to Suffolk


----------



## chris_d

Thanks again Dibs!

I'm happy with either steel or ali rings.

For a final push for orders, maybe you should start a new thread titled "Amazing tool offer" with the "time to vote text" that you wrote on page 10 of this thread? Include a link to this thread for background detail and stipulate that the new thread should only be used for votes (no discussion) hence making the counting of votes easy.

Cheers,
C

P.S. I love your workshop thread!


----------



## Dibs-h

Wizer - the dia of the rings would 110 and dia of the hole in the plate would be 90mm. 10mm shoulder - unless someone suggests otherwise?

Jerome - Plastic is going to be unlikely, unless we standardise the hole, shoulder with that of a commercially available one and perhaps buy in plastic ones - unless there was enough demand to get them cut\made.

Chris - you're right, I'll start a new thread, with a vote (next week when life isn't so tiring). WRT the Ali rings, I didn't want to get the 2 sets made up and then have someone ask if they could have Ali rings with their steel plate, when it would have been so easy to ask the cutters to increase the nbr of rings in the beginning.

Workshop - this is what purgatory\penance must feel like, either that or life on a chain gang! :shock: Should have plenty of piccies\update in a day or so!


----------



## Dibs-h

I also realised that with using a firm further away we would have to pay for a pallet to be shipped back - so might factor that into the "total" cost in deciding which cutter to use.

A local'sh firm who provided the water cutting quote (in Ali) - I've asked them to provide a quote for the plates in 8mm MS and the rings in 3mm MS. The would also laser mark the holes etc. As it's MS - and most folk felt comfortable with drilling, tapping etc. - it seemed logical.

I think once this comes back - I'll have a bit of a shuffle thru the quotes and put another thread up for folks to say yay or nay and put their names down.


----------



## Dibs-h

Right - had the more local quote back for the plate in 8mm MS and the rings in 3mm MS. All the holes will be laser etched - in 8mm steel plate, the holes would need to be 6mm min.

Obviously if the MS group wanted 6mm holes than - I'm sure the final quote wouldn't be a great deal higher.

£4.70 - Plate
£1.30 - Ring (30mm inner hole)
£1.35 - Ring (50mm inner hole)
£1.20 - Ring (no inner hole)

Obviously plus VAT. As these lot are in Sheffield, easily enough to collect or have one of their vehicles drop it off when next in the area - no real cost for delivery then. But as these lot for MS are even cheaper than enyone else - can't see any reason not to go with them.

Now what's the concensus for the rings? 3 rings? 1 with 50mm inner hole , another with a 30mm hole and a 3rd with no hole? These were just nominal sizes I used - would these be ok or do folks have a preference?

Obviously the folks who want aluminium could chose differently.


----------



## head clansman

hi dibs-h 

can you include me please , if you can , can i have the alum 8m + all alum rings with all holes drilled and tapped, hope that is not a problem is it?.


----------



## Dibs-h

head clansman":flsct0jl said:


> hi dibs-h
> 
> can you include me please , if you can , can i have the alum 8m + all alum rings with all holes drilled and tapped, hope that is not a problem is it?.



Hi Martin 

For the Aluminum ones - the more the merrier. The holes aren't a problem - either get them done by the cutters or drill them out afterwards. Most folks are happy to do the drilling & tapoing themselves - but if a few (and it needs to be a few) don't have the gear - I'll do it and send them out.

I'll do the cad work this weekend and post up a piccy and we'll look to confirm exact nbrs\prices by 20 Nov. We can then get them done in Early Dec and you should all be able to get them by Xmas (also before the VAT goes up!).

I'll put up a Poll so people can select what they'd like and I'll use that to work out the nbrs.

Dibs


----------



## head clansman

hi dibs 

hi thanks for that , as i don't have the tap & die set please could you do mine for me, I will pay what ever it takes . many thanks .hc


----------



## jlawrence

not sure about the select what you like/need bit.
I'll admit I've no idea exactly what I need. More than likely I'll go with one Al and one MS then at least I've a spare for when I cock it up at some point .


----------



## Qwibble

Having read all the above I've put an order in for Mild Plate\Rings. There seems to be a good few uses for it's magnetic properties.

I'm hoping to pick up a Trend T11 off Trends Community ebay auction. Then I guess all (ahem) I have to do is build a router table. Although I might need to build myself a woodworking bench to be able to build the router table. Perhaps I need a bench to build a bench. It's all a bit chicken and egg when your starting from scratch


----------



## Dibs-h

I've made a start on the CAD, inbetween everything else, I haven't done the rings\discs (yet) as they are far from complex,







It's missing a few minor things (blurb & stuff) but the major things are on there. If the group\s want it diff - speak up.

Now on the web - the Trend lead on pin is listed as 

25.4mm long x 9.5mm diameter

so I've put the dia of the hole as 9.5mm. Could someone measure the diameter of the reduced bit to confirm? I've set the corner mounting holes 20mm away from each edge (again just "looks about right") so if you want different, I'll change it. Also the corners have been radiused at 6mm?

Obviously the above includes more detail than required - the extra detail will be removed from those drawings sent to the cutters - i.e. if they aren't doing the holes\shoulder no point in putting them on, but I'll post them up prior, for approval\perusal.

The shoulder - someone mentioned insetting it by 3.1mm not 3.0mm - allowing the use of a paper shim? Good idea, bad idea? I think the shoulder should be the same depth for both Aluminium and MS - allowing folks to use rings\discs interchangeably.


----------



## Mike Wingate

Here is a link, one of many that will easily set the plate into the table.
http://wealdentool.com/acatalog/tips_20.html


----------



## chris_d

Hi Dibs,

Thanks again for all your hard work in facilitating this opportunity!

A minor comment on your dimensioning style - the use of a fixed datum point is encouraged from which all other dimensions are referenced to prevent acculmulation errors?

Apologies if you know this and were just showing a quick sketch.


Cheers,
C


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":3oiovxms said:


> Now on the web - the Trend lead on pin is listed as
> 
> 25.4mm long x 9.5mm diameter
> 
> so I've put the dia of the hole as 9.5mm. Could someone measure the diameter of the reduced bit to confirm?


I think you will find the 9.5mm is the larger size (on the MLCS it is) the reduced bit on the MLCS is 6.3mm


> I've set the corner mounting holes 20mm away from each edge (again just "looks about right") so if you want different, I'll change it. Also the corners have been radiused at 6mm?


Looks near enough.


> The shoulder - someone mentioned insetting it by 3.1mm not 3.0mm - allowing the use of a paper shim? Good idea, bad idea? I think the shoulder should be the same depth for both Aluminium and MS - allowing folks to use rings\discs interchangeably.


I hope the shoulder depth will be the same for both Aluminium and MS, and the slightly deeper recess on the plate also seems a good idea.


----------



## Dibs-h

chris_d":y1epjtk2 said:


> Hi Dibs,
> 
> Thanks again for all your hard work in facilitating this opportunity!
> 
> A minor comment on your dimensioning style - the use of a fixed datum point is encouraged from which all other dimensions are referenced to prevent acculmulation errors?
> 
> Apologies if you know this and were just showing a quick sketch.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> C



Yep - quick and dirty springs to mind. The dimensions are more for you lot - the cutters are likely to want a dwg\dxf without dimensions or any text labels.

I'll change the dia of the pin holes this eve.

Are folks happy with dia of the internal holes of the 2 discs? 30mm & 5mm?


----------



## wobblycogs

Please excuse my ignorance but is the shoulder being milled to 3.1mm rather than 3.0mm because there is some margin of error in the plate thickness and milling which shimming with paper will compensate for? 

I can see that having the ring sticking up above the rest of the insert would be a bad thing but wouldn't it be easier to lap the ring to exactly the correct thickness? I'm guessing the tolerance on the 3mm plate and milling is less than 0.05mm which I would have thought you could take off with a bit of wet and dry.


----------



## Dibs-h

wobblycogs":2d1gdizp said:


> Please excuse my ignorance but is the shoulder being milled to 3.1mm rather than 3.0mm because there is some margin of error in the plate thickness and milling which shimming with paper will compensate for?
> 
> I can see that having the ring sticking up above the rest of the insert would be a bad thing but wouldn't it be easier to lap the ring to exactly the correct thickness? I'm guessing the tolerance on the 3mm plate and milling is less than 0.05mm which I would have thought you could take off with a bit of wet and dry.



Someone suggested it might be a good idea to be able to shim the rings\discs up - open to sugegstions.

The rings\discs are also being cut out of sheet - so whatever tolerances the sheet comes with will apply to the rings. If folks feel that thr shoulder should be to a depth of 3mm as opposed to 3.1mm, I'm cool with that.

I will send an email and enquire what the tolerance on the sheet is - although I would suspect it's in the 0.0x range as opposed to 0.x.


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":1ioh7ziv said:


> Are folks happy with dia of the internal holes of the 2 discs? 30mm & 5mm?



I would still hope that the smaller can be sized to permit brass template guides like the http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1

Lee valley ones 1 3/16" main hole (30.16mm) with a 1 3/8" (34.925mm) X 17/64 (2.6mm) recess


----------



## Dibs-h

That sounds like one of the rings would also have a shoulder in it? There's no reason why one of the discs couldn't have a shoulder in it.

We would also need to get that machined as well as the shoulder in the plate - if the m\c shop is charging £2.50 per shoulder in the plate, can't see it being more for a shoulder in the rings.

Would folks want a shoulder doing in one of the rings (the 30mm one) for the plate - or want that as an extra ring?


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":1tz9griw said:


> That sounds like one of the rings would also have a shoulder in it? There's no reason why one of the discs couldn't have a shoulder in it.
> 
> We would also need to get that machined as well as the shoulder in the plate - if the m\c shop is charging £2.50 per shoulder in the plate, can't see it being more for a shoulder in the rings.
> 
> Would folks want a shoulder doing in one of the rings (the 30mm one) for the plate - or want that as an extra ring?



A shoulder on the 30mm+ ring wold be fine for me. It seems to be the standard and it is small.


----------



## halken

A shoulder on the 30mm+ ring wold be fine for me as well i had a right job using a bush in my triton router with the trend insert from my t 11


----------



## RobertMP

Thickness tolerances on sheet metal can be quite good - but if you check the standards as to what tolerances are allowed then they are quite large. I don't know the figures but I'd expect it to be somewhere around 10%. Mills usually do a lot better than that... but they don't have to.

The safest way is to give part 'B' to the guy making the shoulder in part 'A' and specify that it should fit flush. If part B varies in thickness then tell them to make it for the average. If you try to tie everything down to the last decimal place you put up the cost and take all the responsibility - just tell them to make it work


----------



## aesmith

Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate? 

As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?


----------



## RobertMP

aesmith":29n7thda said:


> Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate?
> 
> As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?



It doesn't matter how central it is - as long as you don't use a bit large enough to catch the edge of the hole due to the router being off centre.


----------



## sometimewoodworker

RobertMP":15voj43s said:


> aesmith":15voj43s said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could someone sanity check something for me? Just working out how easy or difficult mounting the router will be. Anyway .. my question is how critical is it to centre the router on the plate?
> 
> As I see it, that centring won't ever affect the accuracy of the work, but just needs to be accurate enough to get the cutter centred within the various rings. Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter how central it is - as long as you don't use a bit large enough to catch the edge of the hole due to the router being off centre.
Click to expand...


That is true *but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes* If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.


----------



## Dibs-h

Centering won't be rocket science - If you tell me what your router is I'll add the mounting holes (assuming I can find out what the spacing\diameter is) to the CAD drawing and email you a printable PDF. Spray mount that on and then drill through the marks.


----------



## aesmith

Dibs-h":stlc9ltv said:


> Centering won't be rocket science - If you tell me what your router is I'll add the mounting holes (assuming I can find out what the spacing\diameter is) to the CAD drawing and email you a printable PDF. Spray mount that on and then drill through the marks.


This deal is getting better and better! Only problem, since this is for a "future" project, I'm not sure if its going to be a Triton TRA001 or an Elu 177 (or a DW625 but I assume that's the same as the Elu)


----------



## Dibs-h

aesmith":326lbwk1 said:


> This deal is getting better and better! Only problem, since this is for a "future" project, I'm not sure if its going to be a Triton TRA001 or an Elu 177 (or a DW625 but I assume that's the same as the Elu)



In that case - send me a PM at the appropriate point in time and assuming we can find the mounting details for the router you buy & you aren't one of those "I want it now" brigade - I could alter the cad drawing (all 60 secs of it) and send you another PDF. I suspect by the time I've finished we should have details of most routers. :wink:


----------



## RobertMP

sometimewoodworker":3byol8wh said:


> That is true *but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes* If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.



Not sure I understand this point. I can't imagine using a guide bush in a table but if you did it wouldn't it be mounted to the router baseplate and hence central to the router?


----------



## wizer

That would be the best way to do it actually. I'd not thought of that. There are commercial insert plates that have snap in collars and I guess this is what everyone is thinking of. I can't think of many operations where you'd need one. It's certainly not essential. 

If the template, attached to the router can, pass through the plate then there's no need for additional functionality on the plate itself.


----------



## CraigyBoy

Hello,

have I missed the boat? I've read all 15 pages, but it's not obvious! 

Cheers CB


----------



## sometimewoodworker

RobertMP":8lxfluim said:


> sometimewoodworker":8lxfluim said:
> 
> 
> 
> That is true *but only if you do not intend to use guide bushes* If you want to use the guide bushes then centering the router to the bush becomes very important.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure I understand this point. I can't imagine using a guide bush in a table but if you did it wouldn't it be mounted to the router baseplate and hence central to the router?
Click to expand...


Sorry I missed your post.

If you take a look at Bob and Rick on the routerworkshop (Oak-Park) they have many good videos some of which show how using guide bushes in the table function.

Mounting to the router base plate would work *but only if the guide section is 15mm or more* If it is less than 15mm then you will have minimal or no guide above the level of the plate. as our plates are going to be 8mm none of the smaller diameter ones would function mounted to the router base plate you have to go over 16mm to get a bush that will clear the 8mm plate
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=47249&cat=1,43000,51208&ap=1
http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/smarthtml/pages/routacc2.html
[/url]


----------



## RobertMP

CraigyBoy":2dsbj0k9 said:


> Hello,
> 
> have I missed the boat? I've read all 15 pages, but it's not obvious!
> 
> Cheers CB



Think it is on hold until after the break so probably not 



sometimewoodworker":2dsbj0k9 said:


> Sorry I missed your post. <snip>



I understand what you are saying about plate thickness being a problem. Still struggling to think of an application for guide bushes on a table though


----------



## sometimewoodworker

RobertMP":laagoj8h said:


> I understand what you are saying about plate thickness being a problem. Still struggling to think of an application for guide bushes on a table though



If you take a look at the Oak-Park miter gage system Video there is one seriese of applications.
http://us.oak-park.com/catalogue.html?list=RTS-MGS-
Some of them can be done on a Rat but none as fast.

Also quite a few of the guide bushe and template operations a free router does can also be done on a table. 

Of course you need to pick your applications for safety.


----------



## rileytoolworks

That Oak Park stuff looks pretty cool.
Might have to build one of those mitre gauges and finger joint jigs (when I get my insert).

Adam.


----------



## jayman

that is a great insert plate


----------



## MickCheese

To line up the holes for drilling do what I did recently with a tap body for a sink.

Stand it on a photocopier and photocopy the base.

Then just stick it to the plate and punch the centers for drilling.

Just don't stare at the light.

Mick


----------



## Dibs-h

Chaps\esses - I am meaning to pick this up and was fully intending to do so and catch up with the drawings this weekend - but with the theft\break in of the workshop - I'm having to side track and get a few sections of the garden perimeter sorted and finish off the door and it's frame.

So in all likelihood there will be a little delay on this.

Thanks for bearing with it.


----------



## tenfingers

Hi Dibs (and everyone!),

I'm just building my first router table and in my searching have come across this forum - these plates you're making are exactly what I've been looking for. Is there still time to join the list or have I missed the boat?
(If not then please could you put me down for an Al plate with Al rings, with one of the rings having a shoulder to take the 30mm guide bushes?)

btw, I might be misreading your diagram and notes, but I'm not sure that a 9.5mm hole for the lead-on pin is correct - isn't that the outside diameter of the part of the pin that protrudes above the plate, but that there's a shoulder and the part of the pin that fits into the plate is narrower?

I prefer the screw-in style myself but since I can't find any such pins at the moment would prefer no holes for the pin - I'd drill and tap it to fit whatever I eventually find (the brass pin that comes with woodpecker plates is very nice (http://www.woodpeck.com/precisionrouterlift.html#70) but can't find it in the UK, and it's probably got some dodgy US thread )

Really impressed that you're putting this together Dibs. Sorry to read about the break in.

rgds all,
graham.[/url]


----------



## wizer

why are we waiting, we are suffocating... :lol:


----------



## big soft moose

Hi Dibs

I cant remember if i opted in on this or not - but if i did i need to withdraw as ive just agreed to buy (amongst other things) a router table top including phenolic insert from norman king

hope thats not a problem 

P


----------



## barkwindjammer

I cant remember what the question was ?


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":21gvyz86 said:


> why are we waiting, we are suffocating... :lol:



I'm about a week out from having the 'shop secured up. So will pick it up then. By way of a test - I'm having some s\s door plates lasered up and as the quotes are coming from a few different suppliers, should have a few more suppliers to get a quote from for the inserts.


----------



## Bone

Hi Dibs-h

I am hoping it is not too late to add my name to the list of interested parties, I am currently looking around for one of these, and if I can slip on the end of a group buy, then happy days.

Regards

Andy


----------



## Paul Chapman

Hi Dibs,

Could you remove my name from the list, please.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Now that the shop has a roof and windows\doors and is more secure - I will be picking this back up. I'll be going thru the thread and figuring out where we were and then move forward with this and adjusting the list etc.

Apologies for the delays.


----------



## Dibs-h

Right - gone thru both threads (will be making a cuppa shortly & resting the brain) and have come to the following conclusion,

- 2 types. 1 Aluminum (8mm plate & 3mm rings) and 1 M\S (6mm plate & 3mm rings).
- AL rings can be used with M\S plate.
- 3 "rings" to be supplied, 30mm inner hole, 50mm inner hole & 0 hole (referred to as disc).
- 12"x9" plate with 90mm hole in the middle - 3.1mm deep shoulder stepping up to 110mm. Allowing 3mm thick, 110mm dia rings\discs to be used.
- 3 x 4mm holes in the shoulder (which will allow for an M5 thread - which most folk will do themselves)
- holes in the rings\discs to be done by most folk themselves.
- 2 lead in pin holes (plain)

We are way past 10 sets for each - so will those interested look at the following link (spreadsheet),

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en

and let me know if they are still interested - and if the specifics are correct? I've sort got my head round the size, holes, etc. so will be going over the drawings and making the necessary alterations etc.

Sorry for the delays, etc.

Dibs


----------



## Eddie

OK for me, Cheers
Eddie


----------



## halken

looks good to me


----------



## wizer

fine by me boss.


----------



## chris_d

Correct for me.

Thanks,
C


----------



## sometimewoodworker

OK for me on the plates and & 3 sets of AL rings\disc.

But I probably misunderstood so only an extra 3 AL discs 

TTFN


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs, 3 extra discs for me please mate. Only one listed on spreadsheet. I think it was my mistake.
Cheers.
Adam


----------



## wizer

Is it possible to have steel plate with alu rings? I'm thinking that the rings could have magnets sunk into them to fit into the plate?


----------



## rileytoolworks

Oh rubbish. Now I'm getting confused.
I thought the rings/discs WERE aluminium?
I'll have to go back and read the thread again...


Adam.


----------



## wizer

It might be me who's confused...


----------



## SurreyHills

Hi

Can I put myself down for an Alu one, drilled and tapped. I am a newbie to the forum and wasn't on on the list previously.

Andy


----------



## sometimewoodworker

RILEY":3mayi86v said:


> Oh rubbish. Now I'm getting confused.
> I thought the rings/discs WERE aluminium?
> I'll have to go back and read the thread again...
> 
> 
> Adam.



As standard Steel with steel plate
and aluminium with aluminium plate
unless otherwise requested


----------



## RobertMP

Only just noticed this has come back to life. been so long I'm sorted now so count me out.


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":25iqofla said:


> Is it possible to have steel plate with alu rings? I'm thinking that the rings could have magnets sunk into them to fit into the plate?



Yeah - I think the collective had decided that the rings would be 3mm thick for both the AL plate (8mm) and MS plate (6mm) - that way folk could mix and match.

Standard is steel rings with steel plate & AL rings with AL plate unless otherwise requested (you just have to speak up) - as Sometimewoodworker has pointed out.


----------



## wizer

Steel Plate and Alu rings for me then pls


----------



## Dibs-h

Updated the spreadsheet - the column marked "checked" indicates that qtys\type have been adjusted.

Hopefully the other names on the list will be getting in touch to confirm one way or the other. Probably send out some PM's.


----------



## tenfingers

Hi,

I've made other arrangements now, and much though I'd like to I can't stretch for one of these.



Dibs-h":1pshxkvt said:


> - 2 types. 1 Aluminum (8mm plate & 3mm rings) and 1 M\S (6mm plate & 3mm rings).
> - 3 "rings" to be supplied, 30mm inner hole, 50mm inner hole & 0 hole (referred to as disc).


Just an observation - if the intention of the ring with the 30mm hole is to accept the PC style guide bushes, note that the flange of the guide bush will protrude above the table surface unless a shoulder is added into the ring.
You can just about see the shoulder in this woodpecker product: http://www.woodpeck.com/unilift.html

Given the rings are only 3mm thick I don't know if there's enough room for a shoulder - my Kreg plate has much thicker rings.

rgds all,
graham.


----------



## jlawrence

Not sure I can stretch to both plates at the moment. So just the mildsteel one for me please.


----------



## ijam

Wow, when I started reading this post I was sure I would be too late to join in. Great stuff, although my head is spinning after reading 17 pages!

Please put me down for two plates in mild steel and three sets of rings in aluminium.

I've never tapped a thread into a hole before - how hard is it to get right?

Also feel free to call me Mr Thickie, but am I right in assuming you mount the router by drilling out the appropriate holes, countersinking them from the top of the plate and then screwing through? Those holes should not be threaded, right?

Finally, being the owner of an old Land Rover, I have to mention galvanic corrosion for those intending to mix mild steel and aluminium as I am. Having the rings sit slightly below the level of the plate will be good as it will make room for a layer of paint on the rings before I shim them up to level.

Thanks

Ian


----------



## sometimewoodworker

ijam":2h3sjwt4 said:


> I've never tapped a thread into a hole before - how hard is it to get right?


Not hard just keep the tap vertical



ijam":2h3sjwt4 said:


> Also feel free to call me Mr Thickie, but am I right in assuming you mount the router by drilling out the appropriate holes, countersinking them from the top of the plate and then screwing through? Those holes should not be threaded, right?



That is it.


----------



## OldWood

I'm sorry if this seems a lazy question now but what's the price like ? I imagine it's buried somewhere in the 17 pages !!  

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

Oldwood - We are expecting under £20 per set.

I will be sending drawings back out for re-quoting & to at least 1 other firm (who have quoted me for something else at shockingly low rates).

Tenfingers - the 2 rings with holes (30mm hole & 50mm hole) these have nothing to do with PC or other guide bushes. The choice for teh hole diameters was almost arbitrary choices and if the collective want them changing - no probs.

Spreadsheet adjusted in light of recent posts.


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":39y3nayy said:


> and let me know if they are still interested - and if the specifics are correct?
> 
> Dibs



I'm still up for it, details correct.


----------



## Dibs-h

Spreadsheet updated. Looks like we'll end up with 25 sets in M\S and 20 in AL.

I'll be doing the drawings this weekend - (I haven't got a deal doing going on with the shop at the mo). Will post them up as soon as they are done - probably Sunday afternoon.


----------



## Racers

Hi,

Do they come with rings as standard? if so mine is correct if not steel plate and rings please.


Pete


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs - maybe two more sets yet; myself and a friend. But I'm going to have to read through the 17 pages to understand what the difference is between Al and Steel, and why one would want to mix the materials - and actually what the rings are for (don't have any on my present table!) 

If someone is kind enough to explain all that before this evenings marathon, you will be saving considerable eye and brain strain !   

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

Pete - yes a set is assumed to be 1 plate & 2 rings (one with 30mm hole & other with 50mm hole) and 1 with no hole (referred to as disc).

The only reason there would be an entry in the Notes column is if folk wanted a M\S plate but AL rings\discs, etc. i.e. mix & match. No entry but a number in the M\S or AL column indicates rings\discs of the same material as the plate.

Oldwood - AL - and Steel - not much difference. Probably for the reason some folk prefer shoes and some folk prefer trainers! :lol: It's personal preference. I suspect the reason folk want a Steel plate and AL rings\disc is that they can drill the AL disc easily. Something which might not be the case with a M\S disc (for them anyway). The reason you would use rings is to reduce the gap between the cutting edge and the edge of the hole. A 100mm dia hole in the plate with a 20mm dia cutter - leaves an awfully big gap.

HIH

Dibs

p.s. If folk think the 30mm & 50mm dia holes aren't quite right and feel that 2 other sizes would suit better - speak up. Can't really do different sizes for different folk - we'd have to settle on 2 sizes (probably).


----------



## OldWood

Many thanks Dibs - the mud is just that bit clearer; possibly clear enough to proceed with a decision over the weekend.

Cheers and thanks for saving me from a long wade!

Rob


----------



## ijam

I decided that I wanted a mild steel plate because I'm interested in sticking things to it with magnets (like the magswitch stuff, although it's pricey).

On the other hand I chose aluminium rings because they are softer in the (hopefully very unlikely) event of the cutter touching them. I am also planning to plunge a cutter through the centre of the solid disk to make a zero clearence insert, although I might chicken out and make an mdf or plastic disc for that.

Finally, I want to experiment with embedding some rare earth magnets in the rings to hold them in place. Once again I will need to see if that really works...


----------



## Loz_S

Dibs-h":2z4my5q6 said:


> p.s. If folk think the 30mm & 50mm dia holes aren't quite right and feel that 2 other sizes would suit better - speak up. Can't really do different sizes for different folk - we'd have to settle on 2 sizes (probably).


I should probably speak up here as I mentioned a 52mm ring. I've measured some of my medium sized cutters and the vast majority are 41 - 46 mm. I use a few though (Wealden's tenon cutter, sash cutter and kitchen door set) that are 49mm, so I thought increasing the second ring by 2 mm would be useful. I'm OK with buying more blank discs to cut my own rings if everyone else prefers 50mm though and the 30mm disc is fine.

Agree entirely with ijam's reasons for choosing steel plate and aluminium discs as well.


----------



## srp

I really do appreciate the fact that this sort of group buy is tricky to organise, hats off to Dibs and all that, but I don't think I can wait much longer. Is it likely to happen in the next 2-4 weeks?


----------



## wobblycogs

Hadn't spotted this thread had come back to life... 

Going to have to withdraw I'm afraid as LOML has apparently bought me an insert for my birthday so I'll be using that.


----------



## Dibs-h

srp":11m1tgwz said:


> I really do appreciate the fact that this sort of group buy is tricky to organise, hats off to Dibs and all that, but I don't think I can wait much longer. Is it likely to happen in the next 2-4 weeks?



Yes - I'm hoping to get re-quotes (only 2-3 suppliers who've quoted before & 1 new one) over the course of next week.

Confirm order and get them made - the cutters will turn them round within 2-3 days.


----------



## srp

Dibs-h":2roz9awm said:


> Confirm order and get them made - the cutters will turn them round within 2-3 days.



Ok, that sounds promising. Do I need to do anything (eg final confirmation?) I've seen some mentions of a spreadsheet, but I have no idea where it might be.


----------



## Dibs-h

srp":2z1z1kg2 said:


> Dibs-h":2z1z1kg2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Confirm order and get them made - the cutters will turn them round within 2-3 days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, that sounds promising. Do I need to do anything (eg final confirmation?) I've seen some mentions of a spreadsheet, but I have no idea where it might be.
Click to expand...


http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en 

I think your on it. Just confirm that your entry is correct.


----------



## Daven

All fine for me too ;-)

Dave


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs
What a saga !! I really give you credit for not having given up on this !!

Can you put me down for two steel plates and 2 sets of Aluminium rings please.

Very many thanks for your dedication !!

Rob


----------



## Boatfixer

I still need one ali so my details are correct - all dependant on how much it will cost mind you.... Any indications yet?


----------



## Loz_S

Thanks for adding me to the list, Dibs!

Just to be sure, I wanted Aluminium rings and discs and that's not clear from the spreadsheet.

Ta very much!


----------



## TobyT

subject to cost not going stupidly out from original estimates, I'm still want to buy the alu one with alu rings as shown on the spreadsheet.


----------



## Dibs-h

Oldwood - It's my life and it's headaches that seem to be a saga. 

I haven't got anything lined up for this evening (that I know of) - so will post up the drawings.

I've updated the spreadsheet. For those that asked we are expecting to pay no more than £20 per set.

I'm probably going to round this up to 30 M\S sets and 20 AL for the basis of the quote.

I'll redo the spreadsheet later today - putting the AL on one worksheet and the M\S on another along with the rings\discs in detail - that way there is little possibility for a cock-up.


----------



## OldWood

Dibs-h said:


> Oldwood - It's my life and it's headaches that seem to be a saga.
> 
> I haven't got anything lined up for this evening (that I know of) - so will post up the drawings.



I thought you would be repairing the car this evening ! :twisted: :twisted: 

I'll take my coat and run for cover.

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":is6fc44i said:


> I thought you would be repairing the car this evening ! :twisted: :twisted:
> 
> I'll take my coat and run for cover.
> 
> Rob



Nah - managed to get it buttoned up and running last night - just need to fit the undertray (10 min job) this evening and I may *just *have a free evening for once!


----------



## vestan pance

Hi, I've been reading these forums for a while (thanks for sharing your knowledge guys and gals, it's been invaluable to me) but am a first time poster. I'd be a fool not to get involved with this so can i put my name down please? I'm after an AL set with 2 extra discs. I'm a little confused by the specific details so if you need any extra info please let me know.

Thanks
Andy

PS. Dibs - I bow down to the patience and hard work you've put into this!


----------



## Dibs-h

Updated - I've added a "Detail" tab - which is the same as the Main one except the following differences,

- Excluded "deleted" entries
- Separate Columns for each Ring\Disc and Type.

I've put the numbers in based on the Entry in the Notes column and any PM folk may have sent. This will allow me to total up all the Plates, 30mm Ring, 50mm Ring & Disc - in both MS and AL, so folk get what they ordered.

Would be grateful if folk would glance at their entry - and speak up either way.

Cheers

Dibs.

p.s. - Here it is again - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en


----------



## srp

Thanks Dibs - my entry is correct, 1 alu plate and matching discs, no drilling or tapping needed.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Loz_S

Yup, checked mine. Everything is correct - no extra drilling or tapping required either. Thanks.


----------



## Eddie

Yes Mine is OK many thanks
Eddie


----------



## peter99

Evening Dibs

Just seen this has sprung to life again. Bought an Eumenia saw and table with router attachment since thread was quiet so please cancel 3 aluminium with 3 extra rings and replace with 2 aluminium everything with 2 extra rings.

Thanks in advance 
Peter


----------



## miles_hot

I think I'm out - I got a plate and I think the rings etc are included in it.

Miles


----------



## Benchwayze

Someone referred to cheapo bits. Surely not the pressed metal bits that used to accompany most DIY store routers? 

I use them for general grooving jobs, but I won't say they are my first bit out of the box! 

I think this would be do-able with TCT cutters and a circle jig? Am I right?

Thanks
John


----------



## SurreyHills

Can you take my name off the list as my wife has just ordered a new table for me so no longer have a requirement.

Cheers


----------



## barkwindjammer

FAIL


----------



## RussianRouter

Hi Newbie to this site and from what Isee seems an excellant choice.

Been riveted to this thread and reading up on the insert plates for router tables.

In respect to Anodising an ally plate,many moons ago I dabbled in Electronics and making my own ally plates for the fronts of project cabinets.

If you where to submerge ally plate in Caustic soda for a few minutes it will anodise the plate and give it that shell like non scratch surface,the problem is I cannot for the life of me remember how long to submerge the ally in the CS? as ally will melt in caustic soda if left in there too long...however the anodising does work in caustic soda as thats what I used to do to protect the plate from being scratched.

My advice is to trial and error with small pieces off ally plate,mix 1 cup CS with 3 cups of water.

Ebay has a fine selection of router guide bushes at a cheap price,if its possible to post a link will a moderator please let me know if thats ok? thanks.

Hope to participate in the forum regular but for now need to browse the site and find my way round. 

Best of health. 
George


----------



## aesmith

I'm still in ... if the project's still a goer. One steel plate with standard rings, can drill and tap myself.


----------



## RussianRouter

Am I missing something?I can't see Tony's picture of the insert...where is it?


----------



## DaveL

There you go.


----------



## RussianRouter

Thanks,Dave

That is one weird insert,is that a ridge around the router hole? and is your insert affixed to the top of the table instead of inlayed?

Sorry but I just don't like it at all.


----------



## RussianRouter

Ok,I'm summizing that its the camera angle? eveything is flush...but...that opening on the guide fence looks awfully small in height and width for larger cutters that need to start off in a couple of passes.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:Finally *out of slackpuss mode and updated the drawings.

- altered the length slightly so it is 306x229
- guide pin is now 6.3mm as opposed to something else,
- discs\rings are on there as well.






Folks happy with the above? I'm 1/2 terming this week till Friday, when I'm back at work. Will be emailing several laser\water cutters on Friday based on nominal nbrs and should hopefully have something back for Mon\Tue next week.

There were folk that wanted a shoulder putting in a ring\disc - what dia hole should be in *that *ring? And the dia and depth of the shoulder? If this is a goer - then it would be 2 step thing - get this ring cut as per the rest (assuming it isn't just one or 2), then get the shoulder cut when the shoulder for the plate gets done.

Sorry for the slackness.

Dibs


----------



## rileytoolworks

Looks good to me mate.
Looking forward to hearing the quotes.
Many many thanks for sorting this.
You must have the patience of Job!!!!


Adam.


----------



## studders

Looks good to me though the 'shoulder in the ring' bit has confoosed me. What's it for? :duno:


----------



## RussianRouter

studders":3ny85hic said:


> Looks good to me though the 'shoulder in the ring' bit has confoosed me. What's it for? :duno:



Its also confussed me as well,looks like a ridge but it just might be the camera playing tricks?


----------



## studders

RussianRouter":33qltfyy said:


> studders":33qltfyy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good to me though the 'shoulder in the ring' bit has confoosed me. What's it for? :duno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its also confussed me as well,looks like a ridge but it just might be the camera playing tricks?
Click to expand...


Nah, I'm talking about the proposed Plates RR, not the one in the photos.


----------



## Dibs-h

studders":mjhaqg4z said:


> RussianRouter":mjhaqg4z said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> studders":mjhaqg4z said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good to me though the 'shoulder in the ring' bit has confoosed me. What's it for? :duno:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its also confussed me as well,looks like a ridge but it just might be the camera playing tricks?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Nah, I'm talking about the proposed Plates RR, not the one in the photos.
Click to expand...


The shoulder is in the plate so that a 3mm (or whatever the ring is) won't stand proud.

The only reason for mentioning whether some folk wanted a shoulder cutting in a ring is that they felt it would be good to use Porter Cable (or similar, perhaps Trend) bushes. So the question is really aimed at those folk - not the masses. Of course there's nothing stopping the masses having one if they want.

I'll remove the "dotted" ring from the drawing - as that refers to the shoulder - and send the drawings off tomorrow. I will ask what the extra cost might be for laser marking - can't see it being much, especially as we aren't asking them to cut anything.

Dibs


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":3agwa31k said:


> The shoulder is in the plate so that a 3mm (or whatever the ring is) won't stand proud.



Yup, got my head round that bit. (Ha ha ha, _bit_ - _Router Plate_) Ahem.



Dibs-h":3agwa31k said:


> The only reason for mentioning whether some folk wanted a shoulder cutting in a ring is that they felt it would be good to use Porter Cable (or similar, perhaps Trend) bushes.
> 
> Dibs



Ahhhhhh... the lightbulb has just gone live. :lol:


----------



## Loz_S

Dibs-h":22pjkcrx said:


> ... I will ask what the extra cost might be for laser marking - can't see it being much, especially as we aren't asking them to cut anything.
> 
> Dibs



Definitely like the idea of laser engraved markings. It would be a great addition if a super accurate centre line and maybe 20mm step markings (to help line up the fence) could be added.

The change in plate size is essential, I hadn't even noticed that it wasn't standard size. I don't want to have to cut another table top.

Thanks Dibs.


----------



## sometimewoodworker

Dibs-h":j4w18cb7 said:


> *Update:Finally *out of slackpuss mode and updated the drawings.
> 
> - altered the length slightly so it is 306x229
> - guide pin is now 6.3mm as opposed to something else,
> - discs\rings are on there as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Folks happy with the above? I'm 1/2 terming this week till Friday, when I'm back at work. Will be emailing several laser\water cutters on Friday based on nominal nbrs and should hopefully have something back for Mon\Tue next week.
> 
> There were folk that wanted a shoulder putting in a ring\disc - what dia hole should be in *that *ring? And the dia and depth of the shoulder? If this is a goer - then it would be 2 step thing - get this ring cut as per the rest (assuming it isn't just one or 2), then get the shoulder cut when the shoulder for the plate gets done.
> 
> Sorry for the slackness.
> 
> Dibs



I would like the stepped ring in all three of my sets.
I dont have any bushes yet from the MLCS plate I have here are the details again





If any one has a standard bush they should chip in.


----------



## peter99

Sorry Dibs, can't wait any longer, please count me out.

Thanks loads for the work so far, really appreciated. Sorry for dipping out.

Cheers 

Peter


----------



## Dibs-h

Chaps 

Some progress - below is the 1st quote,







The last 2 entries - i.e. Rings 3 & 4, these don't represent anything for the majority, but are to allow for the use of Porter Cable bushes or similar and are due to the request from Jerome (SometimesWoodWorker)

AL - means Aluminium & M means Mild Steel.

Disc 1 - disc with no hole,
Ring 1 - 30mm hole
Ring 2 - 50 mm hole.

This makes an *AL set* come in at = 9.78 + 0.90 + 0.98 + 0.99 = *12.65 + VAT*

And the *Mild Steel set* = 4.51 + 0.78 + 0.86 + 0.91 = *7.06 + VAT*

Each set comprising of a plate, 1 disc & 2 rings. At some point I'll try to update the spreadsheet with what folk are likely to pay for their specifics.

On the subject of laser marking\etching - I know for a fact the MS plates will come marked\etched - but I believe the AL won't even tho the above blurb says so. In a conversation earlier the cutters stated that AL is very difficult to etch\mark due to the high reflectivity of its surface. I'll double check this.

The MS plates will have the corner holes centre marked (etched), as well as the 2 guide bush holes and will have 3 lines parallel to the long side so you have something to help when lining a fence up. (Someone suggested this). Sorry that the AL plates won't come etched, turns out the Aluminium just doesn't etch with a laser. With the Alu (or M\S) sets - I'm more than happy to print\email full size copies of the CAD work and post them out\email or whatever. Bit of spray adhesive and drill thru, ruler & Stanley knife and you'd get the fence lines.

Dibs


----------



## RussianRouter

I must say,that the Ally plate works out cheap for an 8mm thickness. :wink:

Whats the disc for?

Can I have a set?


----------



## halken

Sounds very cheap to me dibs i would like to be able to use porter cable or trend bushes so could i have the extra rings please
cheers


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":asnn7tga said:


> I must say,that the Ally plate works out cheap for an 8mm thickness. :wink:
> 
> Whats the disc for?
> 
> Can I have a set?



I think some folk wanted the ability to make a custom ring - that's what the disc is for. You drill out the hole to suit you. Yes you can have a set. What would you like - bearing in mind that you can mix & match, i.e. M\S plate with AL rings\disc if you want or other way round.



halken":asnn7tga said:


> Sounds very cheap to me dibs i would like to be able to use porter cable or trend bushes so could i have the extra rings please
> cheers



Now to clarify the position for the use of Porter Cable bushes - Jerome and I came up with the idea of using 2 rings. Ring 3 has a 35mm hole and a 110mm OD, but nothing stopping the bush from dropping out. Ring 4 with a hole of 32mm and OD of 88mm when placed underneath - solves this issue. As both are 3mm thick - the idea is to hold them together using countersunk machine screws. The bush isn't 3mm thick so it could be shimmed with paper or thereabouts. Jerome will probably take 3, 2 for me - leaving 5 as I only asked for 10 to be quoted. I'm happy to get more done if more folk wanted them.

I think having the shoulder cut in the plate is going to cost £2.50 taking the cost to 

Al = £17.80 inc VAT
M\S = £11.23 in VAT

for the basic set. In both cases - even with postage we should be make to make our magic £20 or less per set.

Dibs

p.s. I should have my second quote next week and will look to get the ball rolling on this one reasonably quickly. Yeah I know in the past, quick has been snail's pace  - but we are getting to the end of things.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":38irzeyi said:


> RussianRouter":38irzeyi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must say,that the Ally plate works out cheap for an 8mm thickness. :wink:
> 
> Whats the disc for?
> 
> Can I have a set?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think some folk wanted the ability to make a custom ring - that's what the disc is for. You drill out the hole to suit you. Yes you can have a set. What would you like - bearing in mind that you can mix & match, i.e. M\S plate with AL rings\disc if you want or other way round.
> 
> [
Click to expand...


All Aluminium for me.

1xplate
2x rings 30and 50mm
1xdisc

I'd have prefered the plate 10mm thick.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":36g126oe said:


> Dibs-h":36g126oe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> RussianRouter":36g126oe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I must say,that the Ally plate works out cheap for an 8mm thickness. :wink:
> 
> Whats the disc for?
> 
> Can I have a set?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think some folk wanted the ability to make a custom ring - that's what the disc is for. You drill out the hole to suit you. Yes you can have a set. What would you like - bearing in mind that you can mix & match, i.e. M\S plate with AL rings\disc if you want or other way round.
> 
> [
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> All Aluminium for me.
> 
> 1xplate
> 3x rings
> 1xdisc
> 
> I'd have prefered the plate 10mm thick.
Click to expand...


We originally started with a blank slate so to speak and numerous posts later folk have settled on 6mm plate & 3mm Rings combo for Mild Steel and 8mm Plate & 3mm Rings for AL. 3mm rings in both cases so folk can interchange them.

I feel 8mm plate over what is essentially A4 size will be more than strong enough - especially when you think that the plastic ones out there aren't 8mm thick.

I'll alter the spreadsheet - adding you in.

Dibs


----------



## RussianRouter

Yeah but,the plastic ones are not plastic,they're Phenebloc or whatever its proper nameis.

This material is very strong.


----------



## OldWood

Dibs - brilliant; go for it. 

I can't really see that we're going to save more than pennies if there is a better off - even if it's a quid, then my feeling is let's get on with it and let you get back to having a life !!

By the way I don't know if there's another version of the spreadsheet, but could you update your working one to include the 4 spare Al discs I asked for a couple of weeks ago.

Did you get a delivery time out of them too?

Cheers and very many thanks

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":38u6a3wy said:


> Yeah but,the plastic ones are not plastic,they're Phenebloc or whatever its proper nameis.
> 
> This material is very strong.



I understand your point George.

If you feel a 10mm plate would be better - make the suggestion and if folk are happy with that, I'm fine with that. Based on material costs alone the 10mm plate would be at least 25% more. Perhaps more by the time the additional laser cost has been factored in.

I think folk settled on the 8mm plate as it represented a relatively good point from a cost vs rigid perspective.

Dibs

ps. Can folk who are on the Spreadsheet send me a PM - confirming they are happy with the nbrs\details on the spreadsheet.

I'm going to use the following week to tidy stuff up - i.e. get the 2nd quote, but I don't think they'll beat these lot. Make sure everything is super confirmed and then look to proceed in the 1st\2nd week of July. Turnaround from the cutters is about 4 days. So all being well - I can put this to bed by July end.


----------



## Dibs-h

Spreadsheet updated - George, I've put you down for the following,

Plate,
30mm Ring,
50mm Ring,
Disc.

in AL. A set is plate, 2 rings and 1 disc. The other Rings (i.e. 3 & 4) are to allowing the use of Router Guide bushes.

Oldwood - 4 spare discs? I'm reading that as 2 M\S plates, with 2 rings\Discs set (twice) plus 4 AL discs. 

Would you like Fries with that? :lol: sorry couldn't resist.


----------



## Dibs-h

Here's the link again,

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en

For those who have just confirmed - the details, I've put that in Column 1 in red.

Once costs have been finalised as well as numbers - I'm intending to ask folk for a deposit - say £5 for the M\S set and £10 for the AL set? Almost half so to speak. I'll be paying the rest to get the order processed and then once they are ready to dispatch we can sort out the rest. 

Paypal - I don't have & won't link my bank account with Paypal, so any payments via Paypal would just sit in my Paypal account & then there's their fees. I'm happy to PM folk my sort code & account nbr as & when the time comes and BACS is dead easy.

Dibs


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs, you're a freakin legend for persisting with this.
Based on those prices, could I PLEASE update my order to 2 MS
plates with Al rings/discs? (2 MS plates, 2 Al discs, 2 30mm rings + 2 50mm rings)
Hope that's o.k.
I'd like to pay in full upfront mate. I don't want you putting yourself out financially on my behalf. Would that be O.K?
Do you want a payment for your time? (I'm guessing not cause you seem very generous).
If not, can I you give me the name of a charity I can make a donation to on your behalf?
Many many thanks.

Adam.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":el90syj4 said:


> I understand your point George.
> 
> If you feel a 10mm plate would be better -



What I feel is 8mm is not strong enough to take the strain in Ally but that is debateable but I do know I'll be strengthening it with a piece of perspex undeneath.


----------



## Loz_S

RussianRouter":7b95gu89 said:


> What I feel is 8mm is not strong enough to take the strain in Ally but that is debateable but I do know I'll be strengthening it with a piece of perspex undeneath.



The elastic modulus of perspex is ±2500 MPa, that of 1050 Al is ±70000 MPa.

Good luck "strengthening" your plate with perspex, might have to be a "little bit" thicker than the aluminium.... ! :lol:


----------



## RussianRouter

Loz_S":hfxk7sp1 said:


> The elastic modulus of perspex is ±2500 MPa, that of 1050 Al is ±70000 MPa.
> 
> Good luck "strengthening" your plate with perspex, might have to be a "little bit" thicker than the aluminium.... ! :lol:



What type of perspex are you calculating that on? :roll:


----------



## Loz_S

RussianRouter":3iyzi2l3 said:


> What type of perspex are you calculating that on? :roll:


Standard cast Lucite Perspex - from the manufacturer's data sheet.


----------



## Dibs-h

Sheet updated.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":363acg06 said:


> Sheet updated.



Where am I? you havn't had your weetabix this morning.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":2pyh1cgv said:


> Dibs-h":2pyh1cgv said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sheet updated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where am I? you havn't had your weetabix this morning.
Click to expand...


You're obviously not looking hard enough! :wink:

I'm not keeping the summary sheet up to date anymore. All the info is on the Detail Worksheet.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":143joep1 said:


> You're obviously not looking hard enough! :wink:
> 
> I'm not keeping the summary sheet up to date anymore. All the info is on the Detail Worksheet.



Well unless you have me down as somebody else? I honestly can't seemy sig or name?

Yeah lets get the show on the road,been dragging on for some time now and members are dropping out like flies.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1hth2108 said:


> Dibs-h":1hth2108 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You're obviously not looking hard enough! :wink:
> 
> I'm not keeping the summary sheet up to date anymore. All the info is on the Detail Worksheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well unless you have me down as somebody else? I honestly can't seemy sig or name?
> 
> Yeah lets get the show on the road,been dragging on for some time now and members are dropping out like flies.
Click to expand...


Line 27 on the Detail Worksheet - i.e. Worksheet 2. I've made it a bit clearer for you. :wink:


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":aq5yk8ls said:


> Line 27 on the Detail Worksheet - i.e. Worksheet 2. I've made it a bit clearer for you. :wink:



Not having that,you updated the page while I wasn't looking. :wink:


----------



## Qwibble

Dibs, just PM'ed you confirming order.

And just received your message - they must have crossed each other in the ether : )

Cheers, Q


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1gxynwbp said:


> Dibs-h":1gxynwbp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Line 27 on the Detail Worksheet - i.e. Worksheet 2. I've made it a bit clearer for you. :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not having that,you updated the page while I wasn't looking. :wink:
Click to expand...


pineapples! You were on there - I just made it, how shall we say more prominent! :lol:


----------



## peter99

Dibs
Was just about to order a set on the net as I need them for a job late next month so that's why I dropped out recently. 
However it looks like your about to get these sorted soon so please count me in again for two sets as per the spreadsheet if your going ahead with this soonish. I'll hold off ordering from the net.

Thanks 
Peter


----------



## halken

Dibs ive checked the spreadsheet and mines ok but i cant see the extra disks so i can use the bushes were you adding them later or is it frst come first served and if it is i asked first


----------



## Dibs-h

halken":aiy2gy6b said:


> Dibs ive checked the spreadsheet and mines ok but i cant see the extra disks so i can use the bushes were you adding them later or is it frst come first served and if it is i asked first



Kenny

:lol::lol: if you look on the far right of the Detail worksheet - there's a column called "Bush Rings - AL Only" - you are down for 1 pair.

Dibs


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs,can you put me down for another three disc,that will make my order...

1 Plate/Aluminium
1 Ring 30mm
1 Ring 50mm
4 Disc


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":2indr0fc said:


> Dibs,can you put me down for another three disc,that will make my order...
> 
> 1 Plate/Aluminium
> 1 Ring 30mm
> 1 Ring 50mm
> 4 Disc



Done.

I'm hoping the handful of folks who haven't replied by PM yet will do so over this week. I'll be asking for deposits next week and place the order on the following Monday (Monday 12 July). I expect to have them by Friday (18 July). And start shipping them out the following week or so.

I'll be ordering a few extra of every disc - 'cos I know someone is bound to have a "bit met disc" incident. :lol:

I suppose I'd better start looking for my taps\dies\hss bits. :wink:

Also - what routers are in use? I can send a print of the CAD work with a series of concentric rings around the centre hole, with each plate. Glue it on and drill away to mount your router.

There's a few of you who are wanting yours batching and sending to one of you and a bit of a local distribution thing going on. Sending to Wizer springs to mind. Can you let me know if you are part of a such a group and who's in it?


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":ib02jlz1 said:


> Done.



My guide bushes are like this you see...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10pc-ROUTER-GUIDE ... 2a07eb1fae

and need a 35mmm hole recess.


----------



## RussianRouter

Hold the front page dibs.... 

That ring three is that a disc for dropping in 35mm bushes and is it for my type of bushes?it says 110mm x35mm can you confirm it'll do my bushes?


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":3f63u2r2 said:


> Hold the front page dibs....
> 
> That ring three is that a disc for dropping in 35mm bushes and is it for my type of bushes?it says 110mm x35mm can you confirm it'll do my bushes?



Rings 3 & 4 do Porter Cable type bushes as shown In SometimWoodWorker's post. These are 35mm in diameter and around 2.5mm thick.

They fit into Ring 3 - which is fitted to the plate with m\c screw. Ring 4 which has an OD of 88mm is fitted underneath Ring 3 to stop the bushes falling out, because it has a centre hole of 32mm.

Clear as mud I expect.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":31z5hglb said:


> They fit into Ring 3 - which is fitted to the plate with m\c screw. Ring 4 which has an OD of 88mm is fitted underneath Ring 3 to stop the bushes falling out, because it has a centre hole of 32mm.
> 
> Clear as mud I expect.



Hah ok,wellhere's my final update....

1 Plate/Ally
1 ring 30mm
1 ring 50mm
2 disc
1 ring3
1ring4

Smart  sorry for being a pain...too much calculating going on lastnight in the early hours,not good for the brain you know.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1vhfhiod said:


> Hah ok,wellhere's my final update....
> 
> 1 Plate/Ally
> 1 ring 30mm
> 1 ring 50mm
> 2 disc
> 1 ring3
> 1ring4
> 
> Smart  sorry for being a pain...too much calculating going on lastnight in the early hours,not good for the brain you know.



Done - only 1 set left.


----------



## peter99

I can take stock for Leeds and surrounding areas, to be collected from me in Leeds if that helps people around here. 

Anybody wanting to lower postage costs and do the above please leave a post below with peter 99 collect on it and we'll see how many can be done in one shipment to save costs. I might be able to collect from Dibs direct to save even more 

Cheers Peter


----------



## Dibs-h

peter99":3u9h8grs said:


> I can take stock for Leeds and surrounding areas, to be collected from me in Leeds if that helps people around here.
> 
> Anybody wanting to lower postage costs and do the above please leave a post below with peter 99 collect on it and we'll see how many can be done in one shipment to save costs. I might be able to collect from Dibs direct to save even more
> 
> Cheers Peter



Peter

I think there's only me and thee (and maybe one other in Leeds) 'round these parts. :lol: 

There's someone in Sheffield, but with School holidays coming up I'll be passing Sheffield on the way down to Brum around the end of July, so could drop off whatever is on the way.

Dibs


----------



## OldWood

Any one in the Edinburgh area on the list ? I'm already buying for one other so some postage might be saved. Mind you by the time you take fuel costs into account, postage is almost the cheapest option.

Rob


----------



## paininthe

I'm in LS15, whichever is easier i'm out and about most of the time so can collect / deliver .


----------



## Dibs-h

paininthe":18zxumfd said:


> I'm in LS15, whichever is easier i'm out and about most of the time so can collect / deliver .



Must be you that I thought lived in Leeds. In which case you'll probably be on of the few to have yours delivered from free. :lol:

I've added an extra column for location - might help to bundle a few together. I'll fill it in from folks Profiles\PM's\etc.

DIbs


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs.

There's an 'e' after the 's' in Merseyside. :wink:


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1sfh5n97 said:


> Dibs.
> 
> There's an 'e' after the 's' in Merseyside. :wink:



Ain't there always been one? Don't say I changed it while you were blinking again! :wink:


----------



## Dibs-h

Just spoke to the other firm - hopefully have the quote back late today or the morning. These lot do waterjet cutting so we'll see what the price difference is as well.

It's been confirmed by these lot - lasermarking mild steel is no prob and the depth of the mark is sufficient to just catch your fingernail in it. Aluminium - no chance. Unfortunate - but it's not for the lack of asking.

Almost all the folk have come back confirmed with a few souls not. We'll see how it goes by next week.

I'd suggest you all spend a few mins looking at the Spready - the Detail tab. Ignore the summary one (I'll probably remove that one) and double check your entry. Please ask if anything is unclear.

Dibs


----------



## Josie99

Awesome, thank you.

Great tip especially for me.


----------



## Dibs-h

Josie99":63wmuvh0 said:


> Great tip especially for me.



How so? Do you plan to laser cut something?


----------



## barkwindjammer

cant wait to see the pics


----------



## RussianRouter

barkwindjammer":3czpzkq5 said:


> cant wait to see the pics



Erm! what tip and what pics?


----------



## OldWood

Reference water jet cutting - did you watch the programme on BBC 2 this evening (Sunday 9.05 pm) on Rolls Royce and making Jet Engines ? 

Fantastic programme - if you missed it, wind up your IPlayer and watch it on that. It was an absolute credit to all the guys at RR and also to the film makers. Seriously do not miss it. And it does have a brief clip of water machining.

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":g2h55vyv said:


> Erm! what tip and what pics?



Must be the internet version of radio interference or something.



OldWood":g2h55vyv said:


> Reference water jet cutting - did you watch the programme on BBC 2 this evening (Sunday 9.05 pm) on Rolls Royce and making Jet Engines ?
> 
> Fantastic programme - if you missed it, wind up your IPlayer and watch it on that. It was an absolute credit to all the guys at RR and also to the film makers. Seriously do not miss it. And it does have a brief clip of water machining.
> 
> Rob



Thanks Rob - will do. I used to work for a Manufacturing firm that had it's own R&D dept and they had a few waterjet m\c's. Fantastic bits of kit.

That other firm haven't come back to me - will chase them up shortly. Also will be sending everyone in the group a PM with payment details for the deposit.

More importantly - everyone please go over the Detail Tab on the Spreadsheet and ensure your entry is as you want - once the order is placed it'll be a next to impossible to entertain "Oh - I thought......." type of conversations.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... McFE&hl=en

Also - as importantly please go over the drawing - I don't think I've missed anything or made an obvious mistake.







The drawing that has actually been quoted against - is identical, but the dashed circle (110mmm dia showing the stepped shoulder) was removed to prevent any confusion.


The one thing I will confirm today is that if the rings\disc are cut to an external dia of 110mm, what will they actually end up at. Just wondering will they drop into our shoulder or require some fettling? *Should we have the rings 109.5mm or something or even 109.9mm??*


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":7e5grbdt said:


> The one thing I will confirm today is that if the rings\disc are cut to an external dia of 110mm, what will they actually end up at. Just wondering will they drop into our shoulder or require some fettling? *Should we have the rings 109.5mm or something or even 109.9mm??*



Leave as is,even if we have to do some fettling then so be it.

Remember the golden rule in woodwork...." you can take it off but you can't put it back on."


----------



## Loz_S

Dibs-h":1c69j3ea said:


> The one thing I will confirm today is that if the rings\disc are cut to an external dia of 110mm, what will they actually end up at. Just wondering will they drop into our shoulder or require some fettling? *Should we have the rings 109.5mm or something or even 109.9mm??*



That should all depend on the tolerance quoted and the quality of the machining. Specifying a different sized ring is not necessary. The firm you are dealing with should be able to help you here but the stepped hole needs to be specified with a + 0.Xmm, - 0.0mm tolerance and the ring is the reverse, with a + 0.0mm, - 0.Xmm tolerance.

In other words and as an example, the holes could be 110mm +0.1 - 0.0
and the rings could be 110mm + 0.0 - 0.1. If the firm can produce to these tolerances, then they will always fit.


----------



## Dibs-h

Loz_S":1r2rs5ut said:


> Dibs-h":1r2rs5ut said:
> 
> 
> 
> The one thing I will confirm today is that if the rings\disc are cut to an external dia of 110mm, what will they actually end up at. Just wondering will they drop into our shoulder or require some fettling? *Should we have the rings 109.5mm or something or even 109.9mm??*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That should all depend on the tolerance quoted and the quality of the machining. Specifying a different sized ring is not necessary. The firm you are dealing with should be able to help you here but the stepped hole needs to be specified with a + 0.Xmm, - 0.0mm tolerance and the ring is the reverse, with a + 0.0mm, - 0.Xmm tolerance.
> 
> In other words and as an example, the holes could be 110mm +0.1 - 0.0
> and the rings could be 110mm + 0.0 - 0.1. If the firm can produce to these tolerances, then they will always fit.
Click to expand...


Just emailed off for the tolerances. Expect your PM's sometime today.


----------



## Dibs-h

The cutters have replied - *The tolerance up to 3mm thick is +/- 0.1mm above 3mm would be +/- 0.15mm.*

Any rethink on the ring\disc size (as they will be from 3mm stock)??


----------



## Loz_S

That doesn't really make much sense. Are they telling you that the plate thickness tolerance is as quoted or that their ability to machine a given dimension is dictated by the material thickness? 

Anyway, we may be trying too hard to be too clever. For such a small project (for the machine shop that is) would it not be simpler to ask whoever is in charge to machine the discs for an interference fit (at best) in the plate holes and just leave it up to them to make sure they fit. Otherwise you could end up trying to specify roundness, concentricity, position, flatness and cylindricity!! They may end up just laughing at you or charging twice as much! 

If everything is being cut in the same shop just let them know what you want, I'm sure they can suggest a solution without having to try and out guess the quality of their work.


----------



## Dibs-h

Loz_S":6gn90t6m said:


> That doesn't really make much sense. Are they telling you that the plate thickness tolerance is as quoted or that their ability to machine a given dimension is dictated by the material thickness?
> 
> Anyway, we may be trying too hard to be too clever. For such a small project (for the machine shop that is) would it not be simpler to ask whoever is in charge to machine the discs for an interference fit (at best) in the plate holes and just leave it up to them to make sure they fit. Otherwise you could end up trying to specify roundness, concentricity, position, flatness and cylindricity!! They may end up just laughing at you or charging twice as much!
> 
> If everything is being cut in the same shop just let them know what you want, I'm sure they can suggest a solution without having to try and out guess the quality of their work.



Loz_S

The plates\rings\discs are being lasercut, and I would expect the tolerance to alter marginally the thicker the material goes.

The lasercutters are cutting the plates\rings\discs and a separate CNC machine shop will be doing the shoulder. I'll give the machine shop a ring and see what the score is with their setup.

Hope that clears things up.

Perhaps it would be best to get all these cut and then with a random (or something) sampling of ring\disc sizes tell the machine shop to do a shoulder or X mm in dia.

I'll post back the results so to speak.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* CNC machine shop - they would cut the shoulder using something like a 50mm dia cutter on a circular path. Tolerance for these lot is +/- 0.01mm.

I'll be sending him a drawing thru and confirm the cost of the shoulder.


----------



## OldWood

Tolerances- and just to make it more difficult, most of us are mixing Al and MS. I'm not going to attempt to do the sums !

Rob


----------



## Loz_S

Ahh, laser cutting, that makes sense - obviously wasn't paying attention when that was decided!

If the CNC shop is the last stage in the job then they have the only critical stage in the process so you should be able to get a very smooth interference fit with the rings. Definitely recommend measuring a sample and only then telling the CNC shop what you want.


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":30m951sc said:


> Tolerances- and just to make it more difficult, most of us are mixing Al and MS. I'm not going to attempt to do the sums !
> 
> Rob



I think it might not be a bad idea for the rings\discs to be say 0.1mm smaller in diameter than the "hole" they drop into. 

We've discussed it before and an interference fit is not what we are aiming for (or that's my recollection) - screwing the discs\rings down was the sensible idea given the proximity of spinning TCT.

If that is the case - i.e. screwing them down - something say 0.1mm or even a little larger would be ok - me thinks anyway. *What say the rest?*

It would also ensure their are minimal problems afterwards - i.e. very little to no fettling required.


----------



## Loz_S

Dibs-h":1p3rthi4 said:


> I think it might not be a bad idea for the rings\discs to be say 0.1mm smaller in diameter than the "hole" they drop into.
> 
> We've discussed it before and an interference fit is not what we are aiming for (or that's my recollection) - screwing the discs\rings down was the sensible idea given the proximity of spinning TCT.
> 
> If that is the case - i.e. screwing them down - something say 0.1mm or even a little larger would be ok - me thinks anyway. *What say the rest?*
> 
> It would also ensure their are minimal problems afterwards - i.e. very little to no fettling required.


 
Before anyone else chips in, I don't think it is unsafe to have friction fit rings, just look at any spindle moulder. They normally have multiple interference fit rings, one inside the other. As long as there is no upward force on the ring it is not going to come out. The fence will nearly always be across its widest part, holding it down, anyway. 

Seems a little pointless to engineer in an unnecessarily large fit when you are going to the trouble of having something made with such high precision machines. 

Just my two eurocents.


----------



## Dibs-h

Loz_S":ijbfqtfd said:


> Seems a little pointless to engineer in an unnecessarily large fit when you are going to the trouble of having something made with such high precision machines.



Depends what your fingers\face are worth I suppose. 

You probably are very happy to work with friction rings and be comfortable - but there will (and there are in this group) others at the complete other end of the spectrum. *So I would like to hear from the rest of the group.*

As for a spindle moulder - very few hobbyists have one, i.e. mostly owned & used by pros and most of them would be using power feeds. So I don't think it's a fair comparison. Ultimately whatever the majority go with is cool - and maybe there's no harm in being safety minded. After all - I don't recall seeing a commercial plate with friction fit rings ever.

Due to the differing tolerances - i.e. 0.15mm (laser cutting) and 0.01mm at the CNC shop, theoretically one could end up with a ring between 99.9 and 100.1 and a hole at between 99.99 and 100.01. So what happens if the rings end up @ 100.1 and the hole ends up @99.99 - or ring @ 100.1 & hole @ 100.01 - would that sort of interference fit mean you could easily pop the ring out by hand? Or would you have to be a bit brutal about it?


----------



## Dibs-h

Just got a call back from the CNC shop - their cost from putting a shoulder in is £3.40 (inc vat).

That makes the total cost for a set of 2 rings\disc plus plate, as follows -

*AL - £18.26
M\S - 11.70*

Unless my maths is having a senior moment. Plus P&P. Hopefully this will just be Postage - I've held onto a load of bubble wrap, cardboard boxes, etc from various stuff I've had delivered in the last few months. SO be glad to see that go.

The CNC shop did suggest waiting till the plates\rings are cut and having measured the discs\rings (hopefully some and not all) - we can decide on a tolerance for the fit.

I've added a column on the spready giving the total cost. I'll send out PM's later (probably in the morning) giving sort code\account details.

Once they are made - and you've been sent an PM, be nice and reply. :lol: 
I am expecting to have these with folk around July end - unless you\I have arranged something different.


----------



## Daven

Thanks Dib-s - looking forward to getting mine!

Cheers

Dave


----------



## srp

That's a good price Dibs - thanks.

The tolerance on laser cutting isn't brilliant, so it makes sense to do the plates first and let the cnc shop work to that. It's likely that, unless the laser cutting is very consistent, there will be some variation in the finished sets, which means that if you go for any sort of interference fit some folks will end up having to bash their rings in with a lump hammer and others will just be a light finger pressure. In other words, it's probably best to aim for a running fit.
Anyone who wants to fix their rings in place can choose to drill and tap a couple of small holes (like the Kreg router plate), or just tap a few equally spaced centre punch marks around the edge to give a little localised interference.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs,let the CNC worry about the tolerences,just say you want the rings to fit the plates with minimalist movement in the recess.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":3ali9qi8 said:


> Dibs,let the CNC worry about the tolerences,just say you want the rings to fit the plates with minimalist movement in the recess.



George - Stating that sort of thing to the CNC shop, would result in the costs increasing - they'd have to measure them and work out a size for the shoulder diameter that would suit all rings.

I'm inclined to go with SRP's suggestion - let's wait till the plate\rings\disc are cut and I'll measure some rings\discs and then we'll be in a better position to move forward.

*All* - PM's sent. *Please* take this opportunity to examine the spreadsheet and ensure your requirements are as you expect\want. 

Also *please* look at the drawing to ensure I haven't make a stupendious mistake and we don't all end up with useless bits of shiny metal.

Also if any of you are having them sent to 1 person for a local delivery - please let me know. I only know of Daven\Wizer who are having a batched delivery. Anyone else?

Peter99\Painin are local to me. 

Anyone on the West Yorks\Brum corridor could potentially have their's dropped off around 7-8 Aug when I do a run down to Brum. That is assuming your not a million miles off motorway. PM if your on that run.


----------



## paininthe

Hi Dibs, the spreadsheet does nt seem to have been updated. Or the link is old. Could you redo. Thanks for all your efforts with this. Above and beyond.

Paul


----------



## Dibs-h

paininthe":1wtfq60f said:


> Hi Dibs, the spreadsheet does nt seem to have been updated. Or the link is old. Could you redo. Thanks for all your efforts with this. Above and beyond.
> 
> Paul



http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... E&hl=en_GB

Detail Tab.


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs

For a start, let me say my bit on many thanks for all your work on this. 

I really didn't believe it was going to be that cheap !! I had to go back and double check the addition =D> =D>. 

There's nothing been added yet to the spreadsheet for P & P ? Are we to be generous and add in say a fiver or what ? There will be some orders heavier than others so a universal figure may not work.

Do remember, guys, that VAT is to be added to the material price.

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":3gvw9vof said:


> Hi Dibs
> 
> For a start, let me say my bit on many thanks for all your work on this.
> 
> I really didn't believe it was going to be that cheap !! I had to go back and double check the addition =D> =D>.
> 
> There's nothing been added yet to the spreadsheet for P & P ? Are we to be generous and add in say a fiver or what ? There will be some orders heavier than others so a universal figure may not work.
> 
> Do remember, guys, that VAT is to be added to the material price.
> 
> Rob



Rob

The price in the Total Cost column includes VAT. Someone be a pal and check their entry?

Costs for bits is exc VAT. So you'll need to tot yours up, add in the VAT and then add £3.4, which is the cost of the shoulder (inc VAT).

P&P - I have no idea except for those folk in a batch, in which it's likely to be Parcel2Go or whatever. I have loads of bubble wrap\boxes which I've kept hold of - so hopefully it'll be P instead of P&P.

Once the stuff turns up - I'll be in a better position to know what the postage is - and you can always pay that once we know what it is.

Cheers

Dibs

*Forgot to mention* - can folk start stating what their router\s is (are) - I can easily mod the CAD work to have a series of concentric circles for a range of routers. Either include that with the plate when dispatched or load it up as a full size printable PDF and you can spray mount it to your plate and drill\tap the holes.


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs
Done a proper check on the sums for my order and it's not coming out right !

Taking the price per item and totting it up for my order gives £18.36 - you've got £18.63 in the Totals column, which should be £21.58 if it includes VAT. 

In fact I've now double checked everything and see your Note which says the Total Cost column includes the VAT and the shoulder machining at £3.40 inc. which should make my Total Cost £24.98.

I also (only now of course!) went back to look at the drawing - what is the pair of holes (6.3 dia) near the shoulder for (one is dimensioned at 97/83 and the other not positioned, and I would have thought should be) ?

Cheers
Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

Got the 2nd Quote back late yesterday. Swings and roundabouts really,







The plates are marginally more expensive and the M\S rings\disc are a bit cheaper, whilst the AL rings\Disc are more expensive.

Probably better to stick with quote 1. They've included delivery, whilst the 2nd lot have a charge of £40 plus vat.


----------



## Qwibble

Dibs,

I've just done the sums and my entry is correct. As if it was ever in doubt :lol: 

I'll wire you the cash this evening. Paying postage once you gorrem seems like a resonable plan. I might contact the Merseyside contingent and see if we can join forces on delivery. I have many weddings to attend this summer in Liverpool & Wirral (NO I'm not a vicar).


----------



## Dibs-h

Qwibble":34hkrf7v said:


> I have many weddings to attend this summer in Liverpool & Wirral



Hey - what the wife doesn't know - we won't say anything! :lol: Good pay, long holidays - not bad. Obviously the group showers - hmm I think I'll give it a miss. :lol: :lol:

Batch delivery\drop off - cool let me know.


----------



## white_sw

anyone buying the router plates in the bristol, bath, gloucester area and would like to combine postage costs ?

Cheers,
Sam


----------



## RussianRouter

My figure is not right either? I get it to £18.77 with the VAT unless you have added the P&P?


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":3bd1pnvv said:


> My figure is not right either? I get it to £18odd with the VAT unless you have added the P&P?



There's always a complainer isn't there? :lol:

9.78 - AL Plate
0.98 - 30 mm AL ring
0.99 - 50mm AL ring
0.90 - AL Disc
0.90 - AL Disc
1.82 - AL Bush Rings
--------------------------
15.37 exc VAT
02.69 VAT
-------------------------
18.06 Inc VAT
03.40 Cost of Shoulder Cut (Includes VAT already)
--------------------------
21.46 - Payable Total

And no I didn't change it whilst you weren't looking. :wink:


----------



## RussianRouter

Oi,I'm only going by whats on the chart,anyway whats the shoulder cut? is that the recess in the plate?


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1dit8n5r said:


> Oi,I'm only going by whats on the chart,anyway whats the shoulder cut? is that the recess in the plate?



Yes - the Shoulder cut is the recess in the plate, for teh rings\disc. The CNC shop want £3.40 per plate for that. That must include VAT - as when I asked if that was Exc VAT price - he said no.


----------



## RussianRouter

So they're charging VAT on cutting the shoulder... :lol:


----------



## OldWood

My apologies for chasing you Dibs, but I queried my price too (£6 too low !!) and had a technical query. 


Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":fjg1uo73 said:


> So they're charging VAT on cutting the shoulder... :lol:



He did ask how I wished to pay & I did ask, "was cash ok?" The answer was "£3.40 all in per plate." I suspect they aren't charging VAT on the shoulder\recess - but that's not my (or our) headache.



OldWood":fjg1uo73 said:


> My apologies for chasing you Dibs, but I queried my price too (£6 too low !!) and had a technical query.
> 
> 
> Rob



Rob - the amount in the Total Cost field for you is 18.63. Where are you looking that you see £6? Also technical query - post it up (might be of value to the others) or by PM. Whatever suits.

*Sorry - realised you meant it's low by £6 and not £6 (which you think is too low). *


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs - you must have missed the posting (hardly surprising with the amount of to and froing!) - showing up at 11.36am today.

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":3gdmvu8e said:


> Hi Dibs - you must have missed the posting (hardly surprising with the amount of to and froing!) - showing up at 11.36am today.
> 
> Rob



Right - Google Spreadsheet is all good and well, but a pain to do formulas. I've copied and pasted the numbers into Excel totted stuff up and pasted it back into the online.

I'm fairly confident everyone's should now be correct - there were only a few that were out. :lol:

If you want to double check (probably a good idea)

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":3dhjsxxx said:


> Hi Dibs
> Done a proper check on the sums for my order and it's not coming out right !
> 
> Taking the price per item and totting it up for my order gives £18.36 - you've got £18.63 in the Totals column, which should be £21.58 if it includes VAT.
> 
> In fact I've now double checked everything and see your Note which says the Total Cost column includes the VAT and the shoulder machining at £3.40 inc. which should make my Total Cost £24.98.
> 
> I also (only now of course!) went back to look at the drawing - what is the pair of holes (6.3 dia) near the shoulder for (one is dimensioned at 97/83 and the other not positioned, and I would have thought should be) ?
> 
> Cheers
> Rob



Sorry Rob - missed this one. Took a few goes to find it. 

The total should now be sorted.

The 2 holes are for the guide pin, one is dimensioned and the other is mirrored (dimensions would be the same). The cutters don't required dimensions on the DXF file, so I removed them all on the file supplied to them, but included a PDF print which has them all, for reference.

So for the M\S plates these holes will come centre marked by laser as will the 4 corner holes. Also 3 lines spaced 15mm apart (running parallel to the long side), 30 mm away from the 90mm hole in the plate. These will assist in aligning any fence\workpiece.

Unfortunately AL doesn't laser mark - so no can do. Did try tho.


----------



## Dibs-h

Just a quick note - don't worry if your entry doesn't say "Paid". I'll be checking every morning and a few times during the day. Can't be checking it all the time - don't want to be seeing my Credit Card bills all day long! :lol: Even tho it gets screwed every June due to insurances for the cars!

*I'll be placing the order on Monday 12 July around 11:00am so therefore will be drawing a line under this Group Buy at 09:00 on Monday (12 July).* 

Sorry for the bold & large print - just don't want anyone to miss this "small print". :lol:

Which will give me a few hours to Triple Check the quantities, etc. I should have them by Friday (16 July) and get them to the CNC shop on Sat (17 July) am, and back by Tuesday (20 July) ('ish). And then out that week. Which ties up nicely on a run down to Brum on 26 July, so could drop some off en route, etc.

We've exceeded the Qty's that the cutters quoted against - so the prices should be valid. If there's any change it should be less - I'll try it on when I place the order (worth a punt) and let all of you know if we manage to blag it a little cheaper.


----------



## Dibs-h

Google just stuffed the Spready!

Here's a backup copy I took earlier.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... y=CKTQrNgO


----------



## aesmith

Anyone else from Aberdeen or Aberdeenshire up for sharing postage?


----------



## OldWood

Tony 
I'm buying for a friend in mid-Fife; he used to live in Aberdeen and goes up there fairly frequently - it's a bit of a long string but it might work. It will depend obviously on when delivery starts, but I'm seeing Bob on Friday and will ask if he's any plans for Aberdeen towards the end of the month or the beginning of August which may be more likely.

Rob (Oldwood)
Edinburgh area


----------



## Boatfixer

I dont know where in West Yorkshire you are Dibs but on Friday 23rd I am heading south from Newcastle to Cornwall (near St Austell) with an overnight stop on the Mendips just S of Bristol - if I can take help with getting stuff South then let me know. Just bear in mind I will be towing a boat so don't want to be doing too many detours off the motorway....

Graham


----------



## wizer

Dibs. I can't make payment until the 15th, so feel free to count me out.


----------



## Dibs-h

Boatfixer":ildmwgb6 said:


> I dont know where in West Yorkshire you are Dibs but on Friday 23rd I am heading south from Newcastle to Cornwall (near St Austell) with an overnight stop on the Mendips just S of Bristol - if I can take help with getting stuff South then let me know. Just bear in mind I will be towing a boat so don't want to be doing too many detours off the motorway....
> 
> Graham



I suspect you'd be going straight down the A1, M18 and then the M1? If so - it would make it a little awkward.

Mind you there's a high probability that I'm doing a Brum run that day - so considering I'm not towing a boat - might cross somewhere along the M1\M42. :lol:

I suppose we'll have to wait & see how the cutters\CNC shop do. I spoke to the cutters yesterday, if as we hope the order is placed on Monday am - they'll do me a Thursday afternoon delivery. Might just get them to the CNC shop on Friday and back on Sat.

*I have a question or 2* - the plate screws down and the rings will be screwed to the plate (in some cases). Now as I'm drilling & tapping the plates\rings for a few folk - what's the suggested size for holes to screw the plate down? And what about the ring to plate element - i.e. what size holes and I'm assuming if I have a choice of fine or coarse threaded taps - go with the fine ones?


----------



## srp

M6 csk m/c screws would be adequate to screw the plate down to the table, and T nuts (some people call them prong nuts) are easily obtainable in that size. You could alternatively use woodscrews of course. So a csk clearance hole for M6, 6.25mm or 1/4" in old money would be fine.

If you feel M6 is a bit skinny, then M8 is fine. I would say M10 is far too big and clumsy. 

To screw the rings down to the plate I would use M4, or possibly M5, again csk m/c screws, so a 4.2 or 5.2mm clearance hole. Tapping drill for M4 is 3.3mm, and for M5 is 4.2mm.

In both cases I would stick with ordinary metric coarse (the figures above assume metric coarse). Metric fine taps are fairly uncommon so difficult for folks to buy the taps. Pitch for M6 is 1.0mm, and for M4 is 0.7mm. edit - and for M8 is 1.25mm

Axminster sell the T nuts
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-th ... rod828747/


----------



## RussianRouter

M7/M8 for the plate,M6 is far too flimsy for holding a steel plate in wood.


M5 for the Disc.


----------



## RussianRouter

Just had a thought,why are you tapping the plate for securing to the table? countersunk bolts and nuts underneath is far more efficient and secure.
http://www.screwfix.com/prods/28313/Bol ... Pack-of-50


----------



## OldWood

RussianRouter said:


> M7/M8 for the plate,M6 is far too flimsy for holding a steel plate in wood.
> 
> 
> M5 for the Disc.



George - with all due respect that is quite unneccessary; I did start off being somewhat more 'positive' in my statement than that :twisted:. 

I've a 1500W router on an 8inch MS plate that is 3mm thick - it isn't bolted or screwed down at all, and is held in place by the fence when I'm adjusting the height. Occasionally over the 10 - 15 years of its life I've set out to make it fixed, but then something more interesting comes along and that idea gets put aside.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, just that experience shows that it doesn't really need it and that if it does, the size of it is far less than you are thinking.

Rob



Rob


----------



## aesmith

RussianRouter":1c6dn7nr said:


> Just had a thought,why are you tapping the plate for securing to the table? countersunk bolts and nuts underneath is far more efficient and secure


I don't intend to secure the plate at all. Around 2.5kg of plate plus 5kg of router, sitting in a snug rebate in the table top, that's not going to go anywhere.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1oe2x3tx said:


> Just had a thought,why are you tapping the plate for securing to the table? countersunk bolts and nuts underneath is far more efficient and secure.
> http://www.screwfix.com/prods/28313/Bol ... Pack-of-50



George 

The tapped holes are in the plate - for the rings\disc to screw to. For fixing the plate to the table - those holes would just be drilled and just countersunk.

This is only for those folk - that I'm doing a favour for. I think they'd rather the ring\disc be screwed down and plate itself be screwed down to the table (unless they want otherwise).

I'll get a some csk m\c screws this Sat and once I find my taps\dies - will have a bit of an experiment\practice.

Dibs

*Result:* found my tap & dies. Have M6x1, M5x0.8, M4x0.7 amongst others - so should be ok. I was dreading it being in a super safe (& now super secret) place & having to go buy another set.


----------



## RussianRouter

So those who don't bolt down the plate? then why have a plate in the first place? ie why not just cut a hole out wide enough in the table and just buy the disc and cut an reces for the disc.


Whats the idea of not securing the plate in the table?

Well I've made the motorised router lift in wood and it works but I'm now putting it to phase 2 and thats purchasing cheap 20mm ally plate off ebay
and making the chassis in aluminium and using a stepper motor for precise increment heights.

Found a circuit that can drive the stepper motor and operate via push button for raising it,a switch to reverse or forward the motor ie raise or lower,and potentiometer for adjusting the speed.

Beats paying £60 fo an over priced extension shaft.


----------



## OldWood

RussianRouter said:


> Whats the idea of not securing the plate in the table?



Originally laziness - I wanted to see how the table worked when I built it, and never got round to drilling the plate and putting in screws as it worked perfectly well without them - and has continued to do so.

The reason for the plate was to give me a surface to mount the router to so that it could be easily removed from the table.

Rob


----------



## peter99

Lets not get hung up on the thread / diameter of the set screw etc fixing the plate down.

Remember, if you strap a buildings walls you generally use no 12 screws in 7mm brown rawlplugs to do it and any structural engineer will tell you that those screws will withstand any force pulling on them, even directly laterally pulling on the heads, that the strapping (much thicker than the screws) can exert. 

The medium they are fixed to and not overtightening them (but tightening them to a felt resistance) is much more important.

3mm dia set screws will hold anything you put the plate through metal to metal. Hard part is 3mm into a wooden bench gaining purchase.

This is not posted to extend the thread into a mathmatical argument, solely to put it all into perspective. Size within reason irrelevent, how you do it and what into deffo is.

peter


----------



## RussianRouter

peter99":1tg8no62 said:


> This is not posted to extend the thread into a mathmatical argument, solely to put it all into perspective. Size within reason irrelevent, how you do it and what into deffo is.
> 
> peter



A motor srewed to a plate should be bolted down for safty and if it means using M8 countersunk nut&bolt then that do me fine.

I certainly wouldn't want my router and plate just plopped in the hole without it secured especially if I'm working with oversized bits...jesus! thats ludicrously dangerous.


----------



## aesmith

RussianRouter":3lpyuwrf said:


> So those who don't bolt down the plate? then why have a plate in the first place? ie why not just cut a hole out wide enough in the table and just buy the disc and cut an reces for the disc.


Two reasons in my case. Firstly the table top will be probably 30 or 40mm thick (not yet finalised). Bolting the router to the underneath would lose 30 or 40mm of reach on the cutter, so probably useless. 

Secondly if I bolt the router onto the underneath of the main table top, I need to get in underneath if I ever need to access the router. With the plate I can just lift the router and plate up through the top of the table.


----------



## studders

aesmith":zg1eka5x said:


> I can just lift the router and plate up through the top of the table.



Tis exactly what I do and I've never had any concerns that the Router was about to become a Helicopter.


----------



## aesmith

I'm just wondering how much upwards force is expected, if four M6 machine screws aren't strong enough.


----------



## Dibs-h

Do me a favour and don't all pay at once on Monday morning at 08:59am. :wink:


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":zpevc2e6 said:


> Do me a favour and don't all pay at once on Monday morning at 08:59am. :wink:



OK 8.58am it is.


----------



## srp

aesmith":ztxt10gc said:


> I'm just wondering how much upwards force is expected, if four M6 machine screws aren't strong enough.


Hopefully not more than around 38kN (if my sums are right and the tensile strength of stainless 304 is around 500MPa that is). I think we'll be ok chaps...






Seriously though, I'd never thought of just sitting the router and plate in the recess - it has advantages if you want quick access (maybe to remove the router and use it right-way-up, or even just to adjust the depth or change cutters). My suggestion of using Tee nuts was made with quick access in mind, but no fixings at all would definitely be quicker.


----------



## halken

have a look at the router workshop on the woodworking channel they never fasten the router into the table


----------



## RussianRouter

Ok,this morning I recieved a block of Aluminium through the post off ebay.
The size is 300mmx70mmx20mm it weighs in at about 2.5Kg.

It was wrapped in cardboard and the postage price was£4.50

Just thought this might give you an idea of RM's postage Dibs,I doubt whether some folks plate and disc will weigh 2.5Kg

Must have a word with the postman...he actually drropped it through the letter box...an almighty thud was heard from the bedroom...twit of a postie.


----------



## RussianRouter

halken":1ogpqixd said:


> have a look at the router workshop on the woodworking channel they never fasten the router into the table



Were powertools are concerned I make my own mind up how its used...thank you very much.


----------



## studders

RussianRouter":1xxxwnsu said:


> Were powertools are concerned I make my own mind up how its used...thank you very much.



Don't think anyone suggested you did otherwise did they?


----------



## studders

halken":1c81tv5t said:


> have a look at the router workshop on the woodworking channel they never fasten the router into the table



Which is where I got the idea from; some time ago now and I've yet to have a Router get Airborne. :lol:


----------



## halken

WHere powertools are concerned I make MY own mind up but i also like to show that some people dont bolt down a router in a router table


----------



## RussianRouter

studders":2pcm7frd said:


> Which is where I got the idea from; some time ago now and I've yet to have a Router get Airborne. :lol:



Try using bits like this then.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-pc-1-2-SH-2-5-16- ... 20b1cce0e5

I have several bits of this calibre and believe me they're scary even with a secure plate.


----------



## studders

RussianRouter":1i2ce2qt said:


> Try using bits like this then.....



Why do you assume that I haven't?

The Router Table fence prevents the plate from lifting.


----------



## OldWood

RussianRouter said:


> .
> 
> I certainly wouldn't want my router and plate just plopped in the hole without it secured especially if I'm working with oversized bits...jesus! thats ludicrously dangerous.



George
I'm judging from the fact that you are currently building a router table and asking questions about doing so, that you don't currently have one and don't have extended experience in using one.

The comments that are being made about the screw size, et al., are coming, as is typical of this forum, from knowledgeable and experienced users. Listen to them.

Rob


----------



## wizer

Rob, I've noticed that whenever you quote someone it doesn't work. I can't figure out why. What browser are you using? Do you edit the quote in any way when you do it?


----------



## OldWood

Wizer - Chrome and yes I do edit out what is not needed. I just delete the non-relevent between the


> 's.
> 
> Interestingly enough I also have noticed that if I put in an emoticon, it appears as characters and not the picture.
> 
> Comments ?
> Rob


----------



## RussianRouter

OldWood":2o9hlskk said:


> Interestingly enough I also have noticed that if I put in an emoticon, it appears as characters and not the picture.
> 
> Comments ?
> Rob



When using emoticons in quotes put a space between and after the emoticon.

I suspect you're leaving a double quote/end quote in the line?


----------



## Dibs-h

We currently have 15 folk outstanding - if you're in those 15 get a move on! :lol:


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":3ga18ssp said:


> We currently have 15 folk outstanding - if you're in those 15 get a move on! :lol:



Spreadsheet hasn't been updated...I've paid in full.


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":10kj4ffw said:


> Spreadsheet hasn't been updated...I've paid in full.



Nowt's changed in respect to your entry - certainly not in the last 24 hours. :lol:


----------



## Dibs-h

The grades of material that the plates\discs are being cut from are as follows (it was on the quote - but I don't suppose most noticed it, me included )

Mild Steel - S275
Aluminium - 6082

Hope there's no issues with the above.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## Eddie

Hi Dibs, Spreadsheet hasn't been updated...I've paid in full on 7/7/10
Eddie


----------



## Dibs-h

Eddie":9az5kcw8 said:


> Hi Dibs, Spreadsheet hasn't been updated...I've paid in full on 7/7/10
> Eddie



Eddie



Dibs-h":9az5kcw8 said:


> Google just stuffed the Spready!
> 
> Here's a backup copy I took earlier.
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... y=CKTQrNgO



The original Spready comes & goes. This is teh one that I've been updating since the original started going weird. I'll remove that.

Dibs

*p.s*. The spready you should all be looking at - it says "RouterPlate_Nbrs2" in Page\Tab title.


----------



## chris_d

Dibs-h":2lkmin2k said:


> We currently have 15 folk outstanding - if you're in those 15 get a move on! :lol:



Hi Dibs,

I've just paid.

Sorry for the delay - I've been working away from home all week and the hotel didn't have Internet access (nightmare), so now I've got 181 threads on UKW to catchup on....

Thanks,
Chris


----------



## Dibs-h

Chris - I've updated the spready. 

*Less than 48hrs to the cut off for those that haven't been in touch\paid!*


----------



## woodsworth

Hi just got back from holidays. I've got your private message and looked at the spreadsheet. Surely It cost more then £24 for two? Can you let me know?


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":3l59tgn8 said:


> Less than 48hrs to the cut off for those that haven't been in touch\paid!



C'mon you lot your letting the side down. :wink: 

There's a couple I havn't seen nor heard of since I joined,Dibs.
There's also a couple that have been on most recently. 

Lets get this over and done with,can't play with me router till its in the table.


----------



## Dibs-h

woodsworth":3w1hjdcm said:


> Hi just got back from holidays. I've got your private message and looked at the spreadsheet. Surely It cost more then £24 for two? Can you let me know?



£24.14 including vat - but not including P&P, which I don't know as folk are having different types\quantities, but should be any more than the Parcel2Go (or equivalent) cost.


----------



## Dibs-h

The spreadsheet has been updated to reflect who has paid and who hasn't.

We have a total of 

Mild Steel - 25
Aluminium - 18

This is just greater than the quantities quoted against - so prices can't change.

This isn't the last call - that was 11:00 - i.e. gone!

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":p412mxgw said:


> The spreadsheet has been updated to reflect who has paid and who hasn't.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dibs



I've coughed up Guv , but it say I've not. (Unless Santander have cocked up, which wouldn't surprise me at all).


----------



## Dibs-h

studders":1jppwmif said:


> Dibs-h":1jppwmif said:
> 
> 
> 
> The spreadsheet has been updated to reflect who has paid and who hasn't.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dibs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've coughed up Guv , but it say I've not. (Unless Santander have cocked up, which wouldn't surprise me at all).
Click to expand...


Studders

I've had 4 payment of £18.26 (which is what yours should be) - with the following payment references,

BoatFixer
Jack55
TobyT
srp

There is no £18.26 payment without a Payment Reference.

There is only 1 payment pending (i.e. will credit the account tomorrow am) & that's from BarkWindJammer.

*ALL* - there is a new Tab on the spreadsheet called *Paid*. These are the orders that are proceeding.

Dibs.


----------



## Dibs-h

I've just sent off the final quantities to the cutters for confirmation of the cost - 

The final nbrs were

M\S - 23
AL - 17

I'll post an update as soon as payment has been made and production is underway.

Will post updates.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

Production is *underway *- I should have an order confirmation later on this afternoon.

*Edit:* Just had the order confirmation and made the payment.

Dibs.

p.s. I have ordered 5 extra M\S discs & 5 extra AL discs - just in case someone has an accident or if I fancy making a few extra rings.


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":322de5f3 said:


> There is only 1 payment pending (i.e. will credit the account tomorrow am) & that's from BarkWindJammer.
> 
> 
> Dibs.



Dibs, just double checked and the payment has definitely left my account. I can only assume Santander are being their usual efficient selves. :roll:


----------



## Dibs-h

Studders

I don't know what to say mate. It isn't in the account & it isn't showing as a Pending Credit (i.e. will clear for the morning). I have one pending transaction which was done on Friday and will clear for 13 July. It too admittedly was done by Santander - by BarkWindJammer.

I sent everyone a PM early last week & chased a few up. Not to mention a fair few posts counting down the cut-off.

Sorry.

Dibs

p.s. Obviously if the payment turns up - I'll drop you a PM requesting your Sort Code & Acc Nbr and return the monies.


----------



## woodsworth

my payment will be in tomorrow as i've been out of town. Hope that's ok.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Dear All*

Those entries on the spreadsheet (The "Paid" tab) are being processed. *No other entries are going ahead*. If your name isn't on the Paid list - please do not make a payment. If you have - please PM me your Bank Name, Sort Code & Account Nbr so that I can refund the payment.

Sorry if you've missed out.

Dibs

p.s. this is the Spreadsheet that is being kept up to date.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... y=CKTQrNgO


----------



## Dibs-h

Having checked my account - 1 payment has shown as pending, to clear on 14 July. *Studders - I suspect it's yours*. Can you email me your name, bank name, sort code & account number so I can return it as soon as it clears.

Sorry mate.

Dibs

p.s. *Santander Account holders* - whilst most UK banks are part of the faster payments scheme - i.e. clears in the recipients account in less than 2 hrs, it would appear that Santander is not. Therefore takes the old fashioned 3-4 days to clear.


----------



## studders

Dibs-h":1rs32au4 said:


> Having checked my account - 1 payment has shown as pending, to clear on 14 July. *Studders - I suspect it's yours*.



It sure is. 
Santander aka Abbey National aka The Abbey - aint they just great? Take the money from your account instantly, then hang on to it for four days. :roll: 

PM sent.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update: *

Just spoken to the cutters and the plates\rings\discs have been produced and are awaiting dispatch\delivery. There is a chance they'll be delivered this afternoon - although it's slim. It's more probable that they will be delivered tomorrow morning. 

As soon as they arrive - I'll post up some piccies and we'll also know what sort of fit we'll get with the rings\disc. I've arranged to drop them off at the CNC shop 1st thing Sat morning. They are aiming to have them finished around Tue\Wed. As soon as I get them back - I'll be looking to get them dispatched. I'll be dispatching the ones where I'm not drilling\tapping them, first. Sorry - what can I say. I'll be looking to drill & tap the remainder over the weekend - and then ship them out from Monday 26 July onwards.

Can you please PM me your delivery details if you haven't already done so. Once I have the plates\rings tomorrow (latest), I'll know the approx weight of folks shipments so therefore will be able to find out the cost of shipping & get rid of the tons of cardboard boxes\bubble wrap that I've been hoarding.

Dibs


----------



## Daven

Excellent news - thanks Dibs, PM sent ;-)

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Sod's law - just had a call, it's turning up around 14:45. :lol:

So hopefully post some piccies later on this afternoon\evening (or tomorrow morning if I end up in slackpuss mode!)

Dibs


----------



## aesmith

I can't believe how much effort you're putting in ...


----------



## Dibs-h

Flatbed truck turned up and between the 2 of us managed to get it off without rupturing or breaking anything,







Here's a piccie of the Mild Steel plate,






You can see the 2 parallel lines at the top and the centre line - these have been laser "engraved". The cutters turned the power up so you can actually catch your finger nail in it. Should help with fence alignment etc.

Here's one of the Aluminium one, 






And the aluminium rings\discs,






and the steel ones,






I've spent a fair bit of time with the digital calipers and the Aluminium rings are around 109.85 +/- 0.05.

The mild steel rings\discs appear to be 109.75 +/- 0.05mm.

I'm just going to drop the plates off with a few of each ring\disc and leave the CNC shop to decide on the fit. I don't think we'll (on the whole) end up with an inteference fit purely due to folk mixing aluminium rings\disc with steel plates and also folk with steel plates just using steel rings\disc.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## barkwindjammer

I'm not sure if your allowed to say dogs pineapples on this forum ?


----------



## Dibs-h

Just checked the plate - and yes they are 306 x 229. I'll be weighing one of each (plate\ring\disc) tonight to help with the P&P calcs & carriers etc.

The CNC shop opens early - so will be dropping them off 1st thing. Saves tripping over them in the hallway! 

Dibs


----------



## halken

its great news thanks for all the time and effort youve put in
pm sent


----------



## Qwibble

Coming together nicely, keep up the good work =D>


----------



## RussianRouter

Nice one,Dibs. :wink: 

The CNC should be able to fit the cut like a glove for the rings.


----------



## superunknown

I completely missed this thread, I guess I'm too late?


----------



## RussianRouter

superunknown":1wr6jv0m said:


> I completely missed this thread, I guess I'm too late?



Well its been going since 2007...how the hell did you miss the boat? :wink:


----------



## superunknown




----------



## OldWood

RussianRouter said:


> superunknown said:
> 
> 
> 
> I completely missed this thread, I guess I'm too late?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well its been going since 2007...how the hell did you miss the boat? :wink:
Click to expand...


Pasted from the very first post

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:38 am Post subject: Router table insert. 

There's been a whole generation of wood workers gone through since Dibs started this, and those that are left are all on their zimmers.   

Rob


----------



## RussianRouter

OldWood":2dpgfszv said:


> There's been a whole generation of wood workers gone through since Dibs started this, and those that are left are all on their zimmers.
> 
> Rob



Yeah,but Dibs didn't start the ball rolling for a group buy till 2007.


----------



## OldWood

RussianRouter said:


> OldWood said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's been a whole generation of wood workers gone through since Dibs started this, and those that are left are all on their zimmers.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah,but Dibs didn't start the ball rolling for a group buy till 2007.
Click to expand...


Yes, I'd spotted that George; I was just winding Dibs up a bit !! :twisted:

I do have to admire his tenacity ... and generosity of spirit - I would have muttered some sweery words long since and thrown in the towel. 

Here's one in the eye for you Dibs - many thanks

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter\Oldwood - you bleedin windup merchants! :lol: 

Tony originally started the thread in 2007 - I didn't offer to do group buy till last year.






To be honest I did wish I'd knocked it on the head a few times, but that many folk had expressed an interest and given how much a good one actually costs & how little we were being quoted for these - seemed such a shame not to do it.

Superunknown - I do have one Mild Steel plate (with steel rings\disc) left over. I'm going to offer it to the chaps who were on the spready as confirmed but didn't make the deadline but tried - I've sent the 1st one a PM. If he decides not to have it then it'll be offered to the next one on the list.

If it doesn't get taken - I'll give you a shout.

Dibs

p.s. Now that I'm a bit more familiar with laser\waterjet cutting, each time I look at Sauer & Steiner's blog I start salivating (but I'm tight!). So I'm sure you can guess what the next set of profiles I'm going to get cut and have an experiment. And no I'm not taking names down for a list! : :mrgreen: (well not yet)


----------



## superunknown

That could be why I missed it then... :lol: never even looked at the date. Really should pay more attention.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update*: The one extra M\S plate that I had has gone.

I dropped all the plates off at the CNC shop at lunchtime. Along with several of each disc\ring. The chap who's dealing with the order - will ring me in the morning. So all being well we should have them back Tue\Wed.

I've got the weights of each item so should be able to get Excel to work out the totals etc. Once done - I'll update the spready.

Cheers

DIbs


----------



## Dibs-h

I've added the weight of everyone's consignment to the spready (weight plus a nominal 200g to cover packaging etc.)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... rNgO#gid=1

It's in the column "Shipping Weight" in green.

I'll spend a little time on Sunday\Monday and work out if Royal Mail is feasible for anyone and what carrier to use for the others and whether folk have a preference for next day or just whatever is cheapest but tracked\insured? *I'm going to work on the basis that folk want the cheapest tracked\insured carrier.*


----------



## RussianRouter

I don't think you will get cheaper than the stated prices you already have,Dibs.

Royal Mail pices are fixed ie if it ts only a few ounces over the minimum parcle load weight price they still want the next price up ie

No tracking 4kg at £8.22 and then it shoots up to £11.02 for an extra 1/2Kg

I doubt whether the Ally and Ally rings combined come to more than 3Kg?

Oh,by the way...could you write on my parcel in bold letters.....

"Please do not post through letter box."

reason being this postie is a lazy sod,won't knock on the door and wait a few seconds for an answer.

Silly sod posted a bar of Aluminium last week,that weighed 2.5Kg and he dropped it thouogh the letter box...thud!...good job the laminate flooring wasn't down. :x


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1vul3201 said:


> I don't think you will get cheaper than the stated prices you already have,Dibs.
> 
> Royal Mail pices are fixed ie if it ts only a few ounces over the minimum parcle load weight price they still want the next price up ie
> 
> No tracking 4kg at £8.22 and then it shoots up to £11.02 for an extra 1/2Kg
> 
> I doubt whether the Ally and Ally rings combined come to more than 3Kg?
> 
> Oh,by the way...could you write on my parcel in bold letters.....
> 
> "Please do not post through letter box."
> 
> reason being this postie is a lazy sod,won't knock on the door and wait a few seconds for an answer.
> 
> Silly sod posted a bar of Aluminium last week,that weighed 2.5Kg and he dropped it thouogh the letter box...thud!...good job the laminate flooring wasn't down. :x



I got quotes from HDN (Home Delivery Network or something) for around £6 - I'll get proper quotes tomorrow, but suspect everyone's will be couriered out - Royal Mail is looking too expensive.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":4sd4v2zh said:


> Royal Mail is looking too expensive.



Its why they're losing business to other couriers,its also why they started delivering junk mail to the public sector.


----------



## Dibs-h

Paul c - check your PM Inbox please.


----------



## Anonymous

Have a google for reviews of Home Delivery Network service. Then decide for yourself.

I sent some pretty heavy stuff by royal mail standard parcel service recently. Cost just over 7 quid. Not the cheapest but not expensive enough for me to shop around.

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Fair does Dave.

I've just had a quick Google - CityLink do?

4kg - 10kg which I think fits most folk @ £6.87 .
11kg or 12Kg @ £8.40
13KG @ £8.74 
*15kg @ £9.41 - UPDATE*

Inc VAT prices.

Royal mail for 4kg I'm getting £7.06 std Parcels & £8.22 for 1st class.

The dimensions I'm putting in are 25cmx35cmx10cm altho Royal Mail don't seem to ask for dimensions, just weight. Whereas for CityLink I don't think it would make any difference either.

Let me know what you think?

Dibs

p.s. Feel free to make suggestions (useful ones that is - yes you know who you are. :lol.

p.s. The site I'm using is www.parcelmonkey.co.uk I'll probably end dropping them off at the local CitiLink deport (it's not very far) - as 20 or so parcels being collected from Work, could easily be seem as taking the pineapple.


----------



## aesmith

Citylink looks good. Prices don't come out any less with either of the online "broker" type services that I checked (www.parcel2go.com and www.interparcel.com).

I guess you want a service that collects, whereas I assume the Royal Mail price assume you take the parcels to the Post Office.


----------



## Dibs-h

Should have an update later this afternoon. Spoke to the CNC shop and plates are scheduled to go on the m\c today, so probably give them a call around 16:00. It looks like it's CityLink's for the Courier.

*Dear All*

This Group Buy has been "moving" about for quite some time and I was eager for it to be put to bed, which is why it did a 0-60 rather quick. I was originally going to have all the plates made - irrespective of whether folk had paid or not, but unfortunately the purchase last week of a Carbon Fibre intake system for my other addiction, somewhat knocked that plan on the head.

For those folk who missed out either having made the payment (but their Bank isn't a member of the Faster Payments scheme & it took approx 4 days to show up) or they weren't able to make the payment - I do *apologise *for you missing out, but I suppose this must be the nature of such things - i.e. Group Buys.

There may well be another GB later in the year, but I can't promise anything.

*Apologies again to those who missed out.*

Thanks

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Spoke to the CNC shop this morning and they're currently being machined. They expect them to be finished sometime today - so will probably collect them 1st thing in the morning.

Dibs.


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Spoke to the CNC shop (around 15:00) and they have finished them and the workshop manager who's looking after this job, when asked about the fit - said they fit spot on (the rings\discs in the plate that is).

Picking them up 1st thing so should be able to post some piccies up in the morning. Will also update the spready with shipping costs (we're going with CityLink as they are the cheapest & not a small outfit, but open to suggestions nonetheless).

Dibs

p.s. Watch this space!

Oh - I did ask the cutters to give me a price for 10 units in M\S or 10 units in AL. Will ask the CNC shop would they will charge for 10 plates as well. That way we have an idea of what subsequent GB's might cost.


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs
Do we do an Ebay feedback report on this ? 

Zero for everything so far as we haven't got our mucky fingers on anything, but 5 stars for communication; and actually 5 x * for price too.

Dibs - you're a * - a 5 x *

Rob


----------



## aesmith

It's exciting isn't it. I just need to work out where to hide it till I have an excuse to spend time building the table.


----------



## Dibs-h

I set off this morning - absolutely chucking it down and bloody tailbacks whichever way I went! So just turned back in the end & decided I'll go later this afternoon, spend a lot less time sat in traffic.

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Went to the CNC shop to pick them up and get them home. Spent the last 2 hrs bundling them up as per folks orders and checking each set of rings\disc per plate.

RussianRouter - George they must have had you in mind when they did the recesses! Talk about an interference fit in nearly every case. :lol:

You have to give each ring\disc (bar a few literally) a tap for it to go home and then a tap to get it out - no way on earth is it going to fall out, even if you turned the plate upside down!

The recess is fractionally deeper than the thickness of the rings\discs - by a smidge, so a paper shim or 2 would easily sort it out.

Right then piccies (or it never happened)

M\S Steel plate,







The recess in the plate






The Aluminium plate






and lastly recess in the Aluminium plate,






I'll update the spready in the morning with the shipping amounts. Any more piccies - let me know.

Oh - I do have spare discs - so now is the time to get one or 2 - when they're gone, they're gone! :wink:

HIH

Dibs

p.s. aesmith - cut out the inside of a Yellow Pages or something and hide it in there. Then put the Yellow Pages in the shop - writing in black marker on the front "Workshop Copy - do not remove".*

* - I'm not suggesting for one moment folk lie or keep things from their other halfs! :lol:


----------



## Dibs-h

Oh - forgot we haven't got any lead in pins! Folk want to get their own or should I see if we can haggle a bit with someone for 40 or so of them?


----------



## RussianRouter

1st pic steel plate... thought I was looking at a misplaced gas hob fo a minute there. :lol:


----------



## Dibs-h

Peter99 - you have PM.

Rob H - You have PM too

Qwibble - you have PM too.

Mike B - you have PM too.


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":d31l8i71 said:


> The recess is fractionally deeper than the thickness of the rings\discs - by a smidge, so a paper shim or 2 would easily sort it out.



Way to get round that is to glue some green baize material on the bottom of the rings and when/if you screw it down it will come level with the recess.


----------



## RussianRouter

These ally plates might have mino scratches on? so if anyone wants a brushed alumimium effect? here's how to do it....

You need- Fine grade steel wool
Can of machine oil (3in1 or similar)
Pair protective gloves

Lightly coat the surface with some of the oil and then use a piece of steel wool wrapped over a small block of wood.

Rub across the aluminium laterally (back and forth) do not use a cicular motion or it will not look right, keep oiling the surface and when you are satisfied with the appearance wipe off the oil. If you have a buffing pad and an electric drill you can gloss the finish using the buffer and some furniture polish or slicone spray.

Do test a bit of scrap ally to get to see how it will look,or wait till you see mine...I'll be the guinea pig if you like. :roll:


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":2mijdr88 said:


> These ally plates might have mino scratches on?



Sliding round in the back of my car - of course. :lol:

Some of them have the odd "burr" on the edge too. Nothing to slit your wrists on mind, but admittedly other than check each plate and ensure it's discs fit - I've not done anything.


----------



## TobyT

Lead in pin would be good but not essential.

Assuming we don't get the pins, or they don't add anything to the weight, do you want us to start paying you the P&P now, or wait until you've actually posted and got the final price?

Toby


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Spready updated with shipping costs. Lead in pins probably wouldn't turn up till next week and I dare say folk would like them dispatched asap & Wifey probably wants them out of the hallway at home. 

The price for < 10kg is the same i.e. £6.87 no matter whether it is 3kg or 9.5kg and as most folks is <10kg, I'm confident there shouldn't be any issues.

You might as well make the payments for your P&P. It's as in the spready for everyone - except those where arrangements have already been made.

Dibs


----------



## RussianRouter

I'll make my payment later this evening,Dibs.

:wink:


----------



## Dibs-h

I'll hopefully be doing the CAD drawings for the router mountings this weekend and will post them up &\or whatever works for folk.

Dibs


----------



## RussianRouter

You're a glutton for punishment,Dibs.

The way to centralise the router on the plate and finds its mounting holes is as follows....

Place the router plate on table or a piece of stiff card? draw round the plate, as the plate is rounded off on its corners make these corner square on the table or card template.

Draw straight lines from corner to corner ie X marks the spot,in this case the center position fo the router,stick a V bit in router and position this bit right smack bang in the center,align router base flat wall if any? with edge of table /card so that its equal.

Draw round router base and remove router,take off routers plastic scratch plate(Some are glued,some are screwed down)place this plate ove drawn router base template and this will then give the position of where to drill the mounting holes in the plate.


----------



## RussianRouter

This fella went overbard with the mount ie too technical. :roll: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbdWHhw0Oyo&feature=related


----------



## Dibs-h

RussianRouter":1haz0h9p said:


> You're a glutton for punishment,Dibs.
> 
> The way to centralise the router on the plate and finds its mounting holes is as follows....
> 
> Place the router plate on table or a piece of stiff card? draw round the plate, as the plate is rounded off on its corners make these corner square on the table or card template.
> 
> Draw straight lines from corner to corner ie X marks the spot,in this case the center position fo the router,stick a V bit in router and position this bit right smack bang in the center,align router base flat wall if any? with edge of table /card so that its equal.
> 
> Draw round router base and remove router,take off routers plastic scratch plate(Some are glued,some are screwed down)place this plate ove drawn router base template and this will then give the position of where to drill the mounting holes in the plate.



I'll just be taking the CAD drawings that were supplied to the cutters and will be adding mounting details that I've "lifted" from drawings of a few commercially available plates that have drawings in the instruction manuals for a variety of routers.

Print it off, spray mount it & drill it. Easy peasy!

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

Chaps\esses - I'm not updating the spready at the moment with who has paid P&P - carry on paying if you haven't already.

I'm just going to wrap them all up on Sat\Sunday and look to get them out of the door Mon\Tuesday\Wed. At that point - those that have paid will have theirs sent out 1st and I'll update the spready appropriately. And PM the person their Tracking Nbr.

If you are making payments - please use your UKW username as the Payment Reference. A lot of you are paying the £6.87 amount and I don't need any confusion. 

Thanks

Dibs.

p.s. For those that I'm drilling & Tapping - I'm hoping to do that this coming week - so your's will probably be dispatched at the end of the week (or beginning of the following week, if things get a bit slow).


----------



## srp

Just paid the p+p. Don't need a lead-in pin. But most important....

A BIG BIG THANK YOU!!!!

Steve


----------



## RussianRouter

Dibs-h":2ak2e0wi said:


> If you are making payments - please use your UKW username as the Payment Reference. A lot of you are paying the £6.87 amount and I don't need any confusion.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Dibs.
> .



This is not possible on my account transaction,Dibs

Anyway payment forwarded to you as of this post.


----------



## Mike B

Guess what I've got then?? 8) 









Absolutely great, and delivered with a smile!! 

Many, many thanks Dibs. All your hard work and attention to detail is much appreciated =D> =D> 

Mike


----------



## RussianRouter

does it play 78's?


----------



## Qwibble

Snap!

Sir Dibs surpassed himself and offered to drop off mine plate this afternoon, on his way back from Brum.

Officer and a gentleman. I'd post a pic but it's tea time inna minute


----------



## aesmith

Is the spreadsheet offline at the moment? Following one of the previous links I now get a Google login page.


----------



## Dibs-h

aesmith":1req7svc said:


> Is the spreadsheet offline at the moment? Following one of the previous links I now get a Google login page.



Tony

Try - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... rNgO#gid=1

Update: This packaging lark is bloody tiring! Almost all are wrapped - just need to find\liberate some more cardboard. :wink:

I should be done wrapping them by tomorrow evening and then arrange to drop them off at CityLink on Wed\Thursday.

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

Oh - for those folk that wanted them drilled & tapped. The rings really are an interference fit, requiring a thump if you know what I mean. :wink: To the point you have to occasionally tap them out. 

So with this in mind - would they still need drilling\tapping? Folks - any pointers\steers?

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## halken

I dont know :? would the rings become worn through use would the screws be added saftey i am happy to go with what ever you think


----------



## srp

The insert rings on my spindle just drop into place, and they're a clearance fit. Never had the slightest worry that it wouldn't stay there. I doubt that I will drill and tap mine if they are a slight interference fit. If that helps (which it probably doesn't as I'm not one of those who needs to have it done for me!)


----------



## Dibs-h

Still on with the packaging, bloody tedious and boring!






All the Aluminium ones are wrapped - just need to put the address labels on them.

Hopefully do the Mild Steel ones this evening.

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* No I haven't finished wrapping them. :lol:

I've ordered some Trend lead on pins which my local place is doing for £1.50 - I can't beat that on the internet.

I've ordered 5. I'm keeping 2, BarkwindJammer wants 1, so that leaves 2 if anyone is interested. Not fussed if anyone isn't.

Dibs

*Edit* - that might be zero left actually. :lol: - 1 or 2 folk did express an interest. Can get some more if others want them! And it doesn't do anything to the Courier charge and even if your plate is packed - a little cut in the cardboard and some tape - voila!


----------



## Dibs-h

Address: Do I have yours?

Please look at the spready - I have added a new column (at the beginning) called "Have Address". A "Y" in this column means I have your address, so it can be posted. If there is nothing against your name - that means I don't have your address details. If you think I do - sorry, I've gone thru a lot of PM's and can't find it, so please PM me your address.

I've not looked to see who has paid the Postage & who hasn't - I'll look at that when they are ready to drop off and those that have paid - there's will get dropped off at CityLink as soon as I finish packing them.  But will update the spready at the pertinent point. I will be doing 2 drops to CitiLink. Not really want to do 3. 

*Drop 1*- will be for those that have paid already or by the time I get round to going to the depot - Might be Friday at this rate.

*Drop 2 *- will be next week, probably Wednesday.

*Drop 3* - will be when I can be @rsed. 

Sorry but I need to get back on with my 'shed. Wifey is away till next week and I don't really need the headache if my shed hasn't progressed and some of "my stuff" isn't out of the house and major changes aren't visible!

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Lead in Pins*

I can get 2 sorts (both Trend ones). I'm collecting 5 tomorrow (these are not threaded on the end). Although threaded ones are available as well.

So if you want a pin - Threaded or non Threaded?


----------



## Rob H

Hi dibs nice to meat you on sunday just a shame a could not stand and talk longer!! got mine all sorted yesterday and fitted it today will sort picks out lata! I have drilled and tapped all 4 corners on mine to take the leveling grub screws that were in my old plastic plate and just put 2 screws through the plate into the table just to stop it from lifting out when I push the router up from the bottom and it all sits perfect in the table! I wont be drilling and tapping the ring inserts as they fit perfect and I carnt see how the can come out if my work is on top of em. 

any way all in all a top job done by MR Dibs-H top bloke cheers mate!! and all the bset with ya other project too!!!


----------



## Dibs-h

Rob H":2xxm93ih said:


> Hi dibs nice to meat you on sunday just a shame a could not stand and talk longer!! got mine all sorted yesterday and fitted it today will sort picks out lata! I have drilled and tapped all 4 corners on mine to take the leveling grub screws that were in my old plastic plate and just put 2 screws through the plate into the table just to stop it from lifting out when I push the router up from the bottom and it all sits perfect in the table! I wont be drilling and tapping the ring inserts as they fit perfect and I carnt see how the can come out if my work is on top of em.
> 
> any way all in all a top job done by MR Dibs-H top bloke cheers mate!! and all the bset with ya other project too!!!



Cheers Rob.

Don't forget the piccies! You know the rule - no piccies means it never happened! :wink:

Besides would be nice to see one in it's final home.

Thanks

Dibs


----------



## Daven

Hi Dibs - I still can't get into the spreadsheet, just the google docs home page! Tried clicking the link or copy and pasting but still won't let me in :? 

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Daven":2uw8gfd9 said:


> Hi Dibs - I still can't get into the spreadsheet, just the google docs home page! Tried clicking the link or copy and pasting but still won't let me in :?
> 
> Dave



http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key= ... y=CI3X0dcG

??

delete your cookies - just tested it in IE.

Dibs


----------



## Daven

Strange - still not working - cleared cookies, history - the lot but still no joy!

No worries, but if you need anything from me just PM :wink: 

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Argh!!

Google sucks!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## Daven

LOL - just worked through the help file from google - I give up!  

:wink: 



Dibs-h":3mnznp97 said:


> Argh!!
> 
> Google sucks!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## Dibs-h

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

??

This should work - it just appears as a webpage now. Tested it on a VM and it works.

Dibs.


----------



## Daven

:lol: - Well dome Dibs - working now!!  

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Right Spready updated - http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

I've added a couple of columns at the beginning - should be self explanatory.

The column labelled Drop shows whether you'll be in Drop 1 (probably Friday or Sat at the latest, depends on CitiLink & Parcel Monkey), or Drop 2 (middle - late next week) or Drop 3 (TBC). n\a means we have discussed it and there are alternative arrangements in place.

*Please pay attention to Columns 2 & 3* - no good me having your address & no payment or payment and no address.

Dibs


----------



## OldWood

Have to say that it's refusing toilet me in also - by refusing I mean it says I am not allowed to have access.

20.00:28th July

Rob (OldWood)


----------



## Daven

I was looking at it then - ok for me!

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

OldWood":15huz534 said:


> Have to say that it's refusing toilet me in also - by refusing I mean it says I am not allowed to have access.
> 
> 20.00:28th July
> 
> Rob (OldWood)



Rob

Please use this link - http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html

We appear to be having issues with the other links.

Cheers

Dibs

p.s. Folks - *12:00 tomorrow is the cutoff for Drop 1*. Need address & payment for it to go. Otherwise it'll end up in Drop 2.


----------



## OldWood

Thanks - that works.

Rob


----------



## peter99

Dibs
sorry for not being in touch, working like a trojan, checked the excel, all good, shall collect etc and for others in Leeds area.

Cheers 
Peter


----------



## white_sw

Dibs,

just checked the spreadsheet. i'm showing as postage paid, but no address. i sent a pm with my details on it on 26/07. do you need me to resend it ?

ta,
sam (white_sw)


----------



## OldWood

Hi Dibs
I now fully sympathise with your headaches over the Google Spreadsheet - yesterday's link now doesn't work but the one on the 23rd which didn't work last night, now comes up perfectly happily.
  

Rob


----------



## Dibs-h

I don't have either P&P or more importantly your address for the following folk,

- Boatfixer (although I think he's boating down Bristol way for a week or so).
- Eddie
- Jack55
- IJam
- Meders

The lead-on pins are £1.50 each - I collected 5 today. So can easily add one for those who requested in. So far we have,

- BarkWindJammer
- LiamScanlon (x2)

And I was expecting to keep 2. Just found out that local CityLink depot has merged within another and shut down. :evil: 

But a mate who has kindly volunteered to take them off me in the morning and CityLink can collect from his office tomorrow. So that's saved a run into Leeds!

So your cut-off for Drop 1 has been extended till this evening. I've got 1 more to wrap up and then will pay for the P&P, print the labels off and everything will be ready to rock and roll. With CityLink collecting them on a Friday - I suspect they'll be delivered on Monday. Next Day delivery is next working day. I'll PM folk their tracking Nbrs this evening - they should come off with the labels that I'll print.

Dibs


----------



## Eddie

Hi Dibbs. I Have sent you a pm and the Spreadsheet now shows you have my address
Cheers
Eddie


----------



## Dibs-h

Just finished printing off the labels for your shipments. Bloody nora - took ages, each consignment had to have all the data typed into it, couldn't do 1 sender, n parcels. Everyone is treated as a single one. :shock: Thankfully it allowed me to pay for them all in one go. Some saving grace,

I'll update the spready in the morning and PM everyone in Drop 1 their Tracking Numbers. Drop 1 is closed.

Dibs.

p.s. Now as these start arriving - I would like a confirmation PM to say it turned up and is as expected. When they've all arrived - I'll get a mod to lock the thread so I can get back to my Life. :wink: :lol:


----------



## rileytoolworks

Dibs-h":2xb04dg4 said:


> Just finished printing off the labels for your shipments. Bloody nora - took ages, each consignment had to have all the data typed into it, couldn't do 1 sender, n parcels. Everyone is treated as a single one. :shock: Thankfully it allowed me to pay for them all in one go. Some saving grace,
> 
> I'll update the spready in the morning and PM everyone in Drop 1 their Tracking Numbers. Drop 1 is closed.
> 
> Dibs.
> 
> p.s. Now as these start arriving - I would like a confirmation PM to say it turned up and is as expected. When they've all arrived - I'll get a mod to lock the thread so I can get back to my Life. :wink: :lol:



I think I speak for us all when I say a big THANK YOU for all your hard work on this mate. 
I'm super excited about building my new table around this setup.
You are a legend Dude.

Adam.


----------



## chris_d

RILEY":377e6qta said:


> You are a legend Dude.



Ditto!


----------



## Daven

Ditto, ditto. :wink: 

Dave


----------



## Dibs-h

Chums - Spready has been updated. Drop 1 is ready for collection. I'll get a call from my mate as soon as CityLink have been for them. I'll update the spready as & when stuff occurs.

Drop 1 is also closed. I have PM'd all persons whose package has gone in Drop 1, with their Tracking Number. Let me know when it arrives and please check the contents. I've checked everything at least 10 times. :wink: Even ISO would be impressed.

Drop 2 will be made ready for Collection Thursday next week - so please check the spready and sort out the P&P and\or address.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update*: Just spoke to the CityLink chap, he's at my mate's offices collecting them as we speak. Give it a few hours and they should have updated their systems.

Dibs


----------



## Dibs-h

*Update:* Packages are showing up in City Links system as "In their Network" which means en-route to the delivery depot. Showing with planned delivery date of Monday between 07:30 & 17:30.

Almost there!

Dibs


----------



## OldWood

Yep, done that, seen the video, etc. The system is working. Well done Sir Dibs

Rob


----------



## wizer

ugh City Link. My nemesis. I hope you home on the day they deliver Dave. Otherwise it's a jolly drive to _Maidstone_. 

Thanks for this Dibs. I was secretly hoping you'd loose it and go postal :lol:


----------



## Dibs-h

wizer":11junky2 said:


> ugh City Link. My nemesis. I hope you home on the day they deliver Dave. Otherwise it's a jolly drive to _Maidstone_.
> 
> Thanks for this Dibs. I was secretly hoping you'd loose it and go postal :lol:



Tom - They'll redeliver if Dave's not home. I've had issues with them in the past, i.e. missed delivery, you can't go to the depot after 18:00 when the vehicles come back and collect the package, even if it's there! Company policy - you have to go the next day.

I would have jacked it in a long time ago to be honest - but I'd opened my gob and felt obliged to honour it. Especially as some folk out there have got something they want\need at a fraction of the cost that they would have had to pay & in these economically "interesting" times that has to be good.

Besides something along the lines of 

"_Love - brought you some new placemats, lighweight ones for the kids and the heavier ones for pots, etc. Look they come with holes in them to stop plates moving around! You can't get them in shops!_" 

Somehow can't see Wifey falling for that one! :shock: 

Dibs

p.s. Do you think we could design and have made a router raiser type widget? 

(*No* - there's no queue for this, so please sit down! :lol


----------



## Daven

Yeah been there done that, got the t-shirt! Last time was a wait for 20mins while the guy searched for my parcel. Wouldn't mind but you could hear others out the back playing with a remote control car!!

Lucky I should be home on Monday - will let you know Tom when it arrives :wink: 

Looking forward to getting my hands on it now - especially as I nearly did a wizer using mine handheld (dont ask!!  ) LOL

Dave





wizer":3nw7r7ac said:


> ugh City Link. My nemesis. I hope you home on the day they deliver Dave. Otherwise it's a jolly drive to _Maidstone_.
> 
> Thanks for this Dibs. I was secretly hoping you'd loose it and go postal :lol:


----------



## Rob H

here you go Dibs the picks of mine fitted in the table!







I drilled and tapped all 4 corners to take the leveling screws


----------



## peter99

Picked my 2 sets of ali up this afternoon from Lord Dibbers. What a bargain! Also had a good chat and viewed the new workshop 'work in progress'.

It's a superb build and will be a fantastic workshop when completed, which it nearly is.

A BIG thanks to Dibs for all the hard work put in. Really appreciated, and look forward to the next big thing....

Peter


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## Dibs-h

Well???

Halken
Riley
DustyDave
VestanPance
GoodSurnameOrWhat

??? :lol:


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## Good Surname or what ?

Dibs,

Parcel arrived today via CityLink. Most impressed by the packaging. Contents look great too  

Thanks again for all your efforts. Now I've just got to update the 'tuit list and build something for it to go in!

cheers
Phil


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## halken

Mines arrived this morning and i am really impressed. Firstly dibs you should take up packaging as a job  . the plate is spot on the disks fit really well and for the price its a real bargain. i couldnt work out why i had a disk that was smaller than the rest till i read through the posts  .Dibs thanks for all your time and energy in making this happen and if you ever come to Sunderland i owe you a pint or two.
now i have to build a new router table to do it justice :lol:


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## Dibs-h

Thanks Chaps - couldn't really afford for them to arrive having been dropped and with a turned up corner. Not bad for the contents of our recycle bin and cardboard boxes I had lying about!

Mind you when the kids get back this coming weekend - they aren't going to be too happy! You know how kids somehow make "awesome" toys out of cardboard\boxes and play happily for hours - well no cardboard boxes left! Wife will be happier tho!

Dibs.

*Edit:* p.s. Drop 2 will hopefully be collected Wed\Thurs for a next day delivery.


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## Dibs-h

wizer":16s56vzw said:


> ugh City Link. My nemesis. I hope you home on the day they deliver Dave. Otherwise it's a jolly drive to _Maidstone_.



Uh oh! Looks like it's a jolly drive to Maidstone! :wink:


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## Daven

Dib-s - I'm sat here waiting - no card no nothing! - City Link have done this before! :twisted: 

Dave

PS - just trying to call them!


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## Anonymous

Dibs,

mine has supposedly been delivered but I'm not at home to find out. Swmbo should have taken delivery and hidden it away for me. Can't wait to get home and see it.

Cheers,

Dave


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## liamscanlan

Mine just arrived - and worth the wait - even better than anticipated! I am truly appreciative of all the hard work this has involved - many thanks Dibs.

For those still waiting
IME Citylink can (and do) deliver right up to the 5:30PM cut off point... so don't give up hope of getting it today.

Liam


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## Dibs-h

Daven":dork3zu0 said:


> Dib-s - I'm sat here waiting - no card no nothing! - City Link have done this before! :twisted:
> 
> Dave
> 
> PS - just trying to call them!



Just been on the phone to them - Lady will ring me back shortly. Let's see if we can have a redelivery done today!

Dibs


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## Daven

Dibs - Looks like it went to the wrong number house, CL say you have to speak to the office your end LOL.

Trust mine and Toms to be TPITA :wink: 

Dave


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## Dibs-h

Daven":2ngygi8o said:


> Dibs - Looks like it went to the wrong number house, CL say you have to speak to the office your end LOL.
> 
> Trust mine and Toms to be TPITA :wink:
> 
> Dave



Spoken to them - sent you a PM. On this instance it isn't their fault. More like mine - the cut and past missed the 1 from the house number. 

What do you want to do - shall I get it redelivered for tomorrow? Or do you want to go for your jolly drive to Maidstone?

Sorry!

Dibs


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## Daven

No problems - I can pick it up tomorrow, just means I will have to go to Axminsters in Sittingbourne an you know what a pain that is :lol: 

Dave




Dibs-h":2p5oo634 said:


> Daven":2p5oo634 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dibs - Looks like it went to the wrong number house, CL say you have to speak to the office your end LOL.
> 
> Trust mine and Toms to be TPITA :wink:
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken to them - sent you a PM. On this instance it isn't their fault. More like mine - the cut and past missed the 1 from the house number.
> 
> What do you want to do - shall I get it redelivered for tomorrow? Or do you want to go for your jolly drive to Maidstone?
> 
> Sorry!
> 
> Dibs
Click to expand...


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## Dibs-h

It's all Tom's fault for putting the mockers on it! :wink:


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## Dibs-h

I see some more have arrived!


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## Loz_S

Apparently, an extremely well wrapped package has arrived....

It's going to be a while before I can use it but thanks Dibs for all of your effort.


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## Eddie

Thanks Dibbs mine has Arrived safe and well, Thank you for all your effort and time,

Eddie


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## Dibs-h

Everyone's is showing as Delivered, except for the following,

- white_sw
- oldwood
- Daven (but that's being dealt with).

Cheers

Dibs.

p.s. Would appreciate a confirmation from those who's parcel is waiting at home or similar. Once you've checked - let me know if all is well & then I can tick you off the list so to speak.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= ... utput=html


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## aesmith

Delivered today while we were out, looks perfect. Just need to work out the rest of the router table now!


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## Dibs-h

Well folks - I'm glad they've turned up and you are happy with them. Bit of a relief considering they were all bought "off plan"!

Dibs.


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## Daven

Well done Dib-s 

Now anyone thinking of chemical blacking their mild steel ones? Chronos sell the stuff quite cheap so was wondering about having a go!?

Dave


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## white_sw

typical, city link always screw up my deliveries. i've been in all day. they didn't try to delivery anything. apparently, according to the website, they tried to deliver and left a card. grrrr, city link have done this serveral times before. i'll pop to their depot to collect it sometime this week. i'll call them tomorrow to have a go, but they have never cared in the past and even hung up on me ! :evil: 

Sam


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## wizer

City Link are terrible. The worst I've ever experienced.


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## OldWood

Hi Dibs - communication from the north.

The City Link system says they tried to deliver it yesterday - slightly surprising as some businesses took a local holiday yesterday. The screen says they tried to deliver at 14.19 - no-one in (correct) and left a card (incorrect!!). Phoned them just now and it's out for redelivery, and the lassy said that the drivers are meant to take a photo of the door when there's a card left; guess what, there's no photo !!

Keep you posted ! I will be in all day today.

Rob


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## Daven

Dibs-h just back from Maidstone via Axminster tools (didn't spent too much!).

Router plate looks top notch, many thanks

Wizer - will PM you about popping yours round ;-)

Dave


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## OldWood

Hi Dibs
Don't know if I'm the last in but the plates turned up late this afternoon - driver seemed to be regarding yestrday's guy as an a**e !.

The plates look great - and all those rings too ? I'm sure I must owe you something for all the tape you had to use - Ebay type feedback says everything is just fanatastic ; ***** (5 stars!!)

Very many thanks indeed - you can now have your life back !

Cheers Dibs and again thanks a lot - particularly your tolerance in coping with all the communications that went on.

Rob


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## Dibs-h

OldWood":31at1gpa said:


> Hi Dibs
> Don't know if I'm the last in but the plates turned up late this afternoon - driver seemed to be regarding yestrday's guy as an a**e !.
> 
> The plates look great - and all those rings too ? I'm sure I must owe you something for all the tape you had to use - Ebay type feedback says everything is just fanatastic ; ***** (5 stars!!)
> 
> Very many thanks indeed - you can now have your life back !
> 
> Cheers Dibs and again thanks a lot - particularly your tolerance in coping with all the communications that went on.
> 
> Rob



Rob - you may well be last in interms of delivered, although I am waiting to hear back from a few in terms of confirmation.

I'm really glad you like them! Once or twice the thought did cross my mind that I might have an awful lot of placemats if things don't go well! :lol:

Dibs


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## Mike.C

I did not take advantage of the insert for the simple reason that I already have my own, but I think that Dib's deserves one big pat on the shoulder for sticking with this acquisition for so long and seeing it through to the end. If I had bought one I would be one happy bunny today. Well done Dibs, you and members like you are one of the reasons UKW is so great. =D> =D>

Cheers

Mike


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## Dibs-h

Thanks Chaps.

Drop 1 - is almost signed off. 1 or 2 stragglers to report back. :lol:

*Drop 2 *- this I'm hoping have collected tomorrow for delivery on Friday. The names thus far in Drop 2 are,

- BarkWindJammer
- Jack55
- Ijam
- Woodsworth

*Drop 3* will be next week and will be the remainder, except for special arrangements.

Cheers

Dibs


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## Dibs-h

*Drop 2 *- chums, there appears to have been an issue on Friday with the collection of the packages by CityLink. I'm going to have to re-arrange for collection Tomorrow. That's one of the joys of using a middle-man company. If it was direct with them - I'd ring them up & they'd come today.

Sorry for the dealy - don't quite know why they didn't come on Friday - having said that, the lads in the office could have nipped out. All being well - they should be collected tomorrow.

Apologies for the delay.

Dibs.


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## Dibs-h

Drop 2 *is *defintely scheduled for collection today and should be with folk tomorrow.

There's only 3 lots left - but these have other arrangements in place.

Many Thanks for bearing with it - for those in Drop 2, please let me know once it is received and is as expected.

Cheers

Dibs


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## wizer

I forgot to say thanks. I received mine from Dave last week. Really happy with it. Some of the rings don't fit the hole, but nothing a little sanding won't correct.

Well done Dibs. Thanks!


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## Dibs-h

wizer":hdtns5c3 said:


> I forgot to say thanks. I received mine from Dave last week. Really happy with it. Some of the rings don't fit the hole, but nothing a little sanding won't correct.
> 
> Well done Dibs. Thanks!



Glad you like it Tom. As for the rings\discs - I test fitted everyones into their plates. Admittedly some got a bit heavier thump than others. 

Do let me know if you still have a problem - I do have some spares.

Dibs


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## wizer

No worries, I'm sure it will just be a job of sanding them a little until they fit.


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## Dibs-h

Cobblers! Typed a wrong bloody postcode on the labels and the driver couldn't find the place!! :evil: 

Thankfully the depot is a million miles away - so off to collect them and drop them off before 19:00 - that way they'll make their delivery for tomorrow!

Dibs.


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## Dibs-h

Dropped the parcels off at CityLink around 18:45 - so they should be delivered tomorrow. On the website it is still showing as Collection Failed - I'll inquire in the morning if the status has't changed.

Dibs


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## wizer

Here's a tip.... DON'T USE CITYLINK! They suck...and blow!


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## Dibs-h

:lol: ParcelFarce aren't much better from a recipients perspective either! :lol:

Drop 2 parcels are showing with Today as the planned delivery date - so all being well folk should have them today.

Dibs


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## barkwindjammer

Nope, not here yet :?


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## Dibs-h

Chums - I'm going to be incommunicado for most of the day tomorrow. Had a slight mishap with hand saw - enough to require corrective surgery tomorrow. 

However I shall be ringing CityLink bang on at 08:00 and seeing where they are.

Dibs


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## chris_d

Hi Dibs,

Sorry to here of your woes, hope you mend ok. We'd love to see pictures though!

Best wishes,
Chris


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## Daven

Yeah, good luck mate hope its not too saw :wink: 

Dave


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## barkwindjammer

Dibs just to echo what everyone else has said about your efforts in bringing this 'group-buy' to fruition, many many thanks, arrived today-all present and correct-you sir are a top dude , and a speedy recovery from your 'mis-hap' :shock:


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## jack55

Arrived today Many thanks for all the work you put in to this


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## Dibs-h

Right - I've got 3 sets to send, but that's all under control or will be when my hand comes back to full use. :lol:

As everyone else has got their plates\rings - it's fair enough to says

*This Group Buy is now officially closed!*

Thanks to one and all who participated.

Dibs.

p.s. I do have some spare rings\discs - so send me a PM if you damage yours somehow.


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## clk230

Any news on this I paid and never did receive , tried messaging Dibs-h several times now not answering messages . I do think I've been more than patient .


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## MattRoberts

I think 6 years of patience might be a little too much?


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## DiscoStu

A mate of mine runs a company and had a customer phone him last week today that his order hadn't been received. 

No problem sir, what's your order number? 

It's A4838583

Oh that's a bit odd our order numbers don't have a letter in them they used to but not since we changed the system. 

Well it was a while ago that I ordered it. 

Well we changed the system in 1998, when did you please the order?

Ummm 3rd August 1996. 

Needless to say the chap didn't get a refund! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## clk230

MattRoberts":qvapxhkp said:


> I think 6 years of patience might be a little too much?



I'm not divulging private messages , but several say things like its by the door I'll get the courier to collect etc (I've not actually paid for the postage yet) 
I had several very bad personal years (including the wife being severely ill) so trusted a long standing forum member .


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## OldWood

Somewhere I think I have a set of these that never got used, and would be quite happy to pass them on if I can find them !!! 

PM me if you are interested and that will encourage the search through the deep litter. I'm quite sure we can sort out something on the postage front if they do turn up  

Rob


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## rafezetter

OldWood":2e94bq33 said:


> Somewhere I think I have a set of these that never got used, and would be quite happy to pass them on if I can find them !!!
> 
> PM me if you are interested and that will encourage the search through the deep litter. I'm quite sure we can sort out something on the postage front if they do turn up
> 
> Rob




HI Rob

If CLK decides to pass would you mind posting up a picture? the originals are long gone and I'll be in the market for a router table plate soonish.


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