# Another Kitchen Design Q



## Mike B (20 Sep 2006)

Hi Everyone (esp. the Pros in this case)

All the recent kitchen posts have got me wondering if there are any rules/regulations regarding kitchen designs, especially regarding the placement of appliances (obviously excluding personal preference, power, water requirements etc), or are you allowed to do whatever you like (within reason).

For instance, do modern ovens require extra room behind/under them for ventilation in case the exterior gets hot? May wires pipes etc be routed behind/at the side of them?? Can you place the fridge next to the oven?? etc etc

After all, there seem to be new regulations for pretty much everything else...

Cheers
Mike


----------



## Scrit (21 Sep 2006)

Oddly enough I don't think so. The main area of "control" is the location of upper cabs in the vicinity of a gas hob and even there it's a case of manufacturers "recommendations" which generally specify height above and lateral displacement from the edge of a gas hob. Electrical supplies and installations are supposed to be to the IEEE 16th instance standards as regulated under the Building Act, Part P (and are supposed to be undertaken by a competent person) whilst gas supplies and installations come under the wing of CORGI and must be undertaken by a CORGI-certified fitter. Unless I am much mistaken we don't yet have the electrical "zoning" in kitchens that is required in bathrooms, although maybe someone such as Jason could comment on that one.

As to the positioning of appliances it's pretty much anything goes IMHO

Scrit


----------



## Argee (21 Sep 2006)

Modern oven carcasses have little, if any, side clearance - the appliance slides in and usually has a couple of screws inserted from the front, to affix it to the sides. These appliances are already well insulated and nowadays mostly seem to run off a conventional 13 amp plug. Rear clearance usually runs around 50mm to 75mm, from memory. The carcasses are designed to accommodate the appliances and vice versa. Fridge carcasses can be placed next to oven carcasses without any problems.

One area you do need to take care over is the clearances around any boiler that you're enclosing, whether it be wall-hung or floor-standing. There are clearances that need to be followed - I think it's 25mm internal clearance from both sides for wall-hung cabinets and 100mm from the bottom, unless the bottom is, itself, removeable.

Don't take this as the final word on these clearances, I'm sure there are others with the accurate gen for you who'll be along soon. If not, these are worth checking, otherwise when the boiler service comes around, you could finish up having a problem, as the engineer will not turn a blind eye to incorrect boiler surrounds.

Ray.


----------



## tim (21 Sep 2006)

The only thing I'm aware of is the positioning of wall cabinets in relation to hobs. There are various height restrictions depending on the heat source but these are normally laid out in the hob installation guides. Maybe worth checking with manufacturers for specifics.

I also don't know whether its regs or just a good idea not to put a hob in front of a window. :wink: 

Cheers

Tim


----------



## Jake (21 Sep 2006)

Scrit":1rg3np1e said:


> Oddly enough I don't think so. The main area of "control" is the location of upper cabs in the vicinity of a gas hob and even there it's a case of manufacturers "recommendations" which generally specify height above and lateral displacement from the edge of a gas hob.



This is mandated by the gas regs, I think - the fitter is required to ensure that the hob is sufficiently far away from combustible materials before fitting the hob. He does that by relying on the manufacturer, who in turn has to do the testing required to set out the distances for that particular model. So it is mandatory in a roundabout way.



> whilst gas supplies and installations come under the wing of CORGI and must be undertaken by a CORGI-certified fitter.



If it is being done for reward ... the legal requirement is simply for competence. CORGI managed to get a monopoly on what is competent for someone doing gas work for reward.



> Unless I am much mistaken we don't yet have the electrical "zoning" in kitchens that is required in bathrooms, although maybe someone such as Jason could comment on that one.



No, there isn't - but there is an overriding principle that things should be suitable for their location, so sockets shouldn't be too near sinks, etc.


----------



## Scrit (21 Sep 2006)

Hi Jake

Have you any idea how the upcoming housebuyers packs will affect the definition of "competent person"? Listen to some of the reps. from bodies such as CORGI and NICEIC and some are certainly giving the impression that the only competent person in their respective fields is one of their members and that for work not to be done by an appropriately qualified and registered person who then registers the work is illegal, etc, etc. Perhaps I view this from a different perspective in that the installations I get involved with generally require a CORGI gas fitter _and_ a Part-P electrician who issue the necessary bits of paper (at least until I do my Part P, or alternatively I find a gas fitter who has done the CORGI electrical certification). On some of the trades sites you get the impression, possibly rightly, that this is a bit of a minefield.....

Scrit


----------



## Jake (21 Sep 2006)

Hey Scrit.



Scrit":23yjjwqy said:


> Have you any idea how the upcoming housebuyers packs will affect the definition of "competent person"?



I don't see how it can, it isn't going to change the law on such things as far as I know.



> Listen to some of the reps. from bodies such as CORGI and NICEIC and some are certainly giving the impression that the only competent person in their respective fields is one of their members and that for work not to be done by an appropriately qualified and registered person who then registers the work is illegal, etc, etc.



Well, it is in their interest to say that! 

CORGI have more of a point, in that it is a legal requirement that anyone doing it for reward is a CORGI member, and it is illegal for someone not CORGI registered to do gas work for reward. I don't know that this actually makes the work itself illegal, though, or just the worker. 

They always try to make out that DIY is illegal though, which is rubbish - of course it might not be sensible (although I'm a confident at plumbing I don't do gas myself).

NICEIC etc would love the same to be the case for electrics but it simply isn't true. Part P is very clear - there are two ways of doing regulated work - the first is for someone able to self-certify (which does mean being a approved contractor under the NICEIC scheme or one of the other approved bodies' schemes) or to make a building regs application in advance. It doesn't matter if it is paid work or DIY, either can be referred to the council for a building certificate and there is nothing unlawful or illegal about doing work on electrics for reward or otherwise provided you do notify where it isn't exempt work. 



> Perhaps I view this from a different perspective in that the installations I get involved with generally require a CORGI gas fitter _and_ a Part-P electrician who issue the necessary bits of paper (at least until I do my Part P, or alternatively I find a gas fitter who has done the CORGI electrical certification).



Or a gas fitter who can do electrics competently and is prepared to make the building regs application. Costs £100 or so for the application, so probably just as cheap to stick with the two trades and get self-certification on the electrics (less hassle).



> On some of the trades sites you get the impression, possibly rightly, that this is a bit of a minefield.....



They'd love it to be. It is a lot simpler in trade work - gas has to be CORGI, electrics have to be approved contractor scheme members or make a building application.

They all just love making out that DIY is illegal and frightfully dangerous and inevitably going to lead to a long prison sentence if you manage to narrowly escape death, and going to lead to your insurance being void and your house unsaleable. It's all nonsense.

The ordinary plumbers are stirring up for a similar scheme, apparently. Drowning is a real health and safety problem with all the cowboys around, I'm sure.


----------

