# Big log cross-cut saw question.



## digitalbot (28 Nov 2014)

I'm thinking about obtaining, when one surfaces on one of the second hand sites, one of those heavy logging crosscut saws to cut logs for our new wood burning fire. A single man version about 36" or thereabouts. Has anybody returned anything similar to use?
Having looked in an old tyzack catalogue , something like the No.13 or 13B would be about right, as an example. Obvious it doesn't have to be a tyzack, anything decent will do.
I don't know if the english or american tooth version would be better.
Would it need a special file for the teeth.? And maybe an oversize saw set?

Any information appreciated.


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## wizard (28 Nov 2014)

this is what you want


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## bugbear (28 Nov 2014)

Better:






Nice Tyzack patent handled types  

patent GB532965, 1941, full patent here

BugBear


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## Mike.S (28 Nov 2014)

Have a couple of those for fettling and, by coincidence, about to pick up three acquired on fleabay. Hopefully, one or two will be quality and rest can be recycled. All have the 'Great American Tooth, pattern, like the top one in your picture. 

New versions are available from Thomas Flinn and Dieter Schmid. 

I have a bow saw, like the one wizard posted, but find the blade twists in use and has limited depth of cut, hence my quest for a 'proper' crosscut saw to cut tree branches/trunks. From my research so far, the GAT is suited to greenwood, ideally hardwood but will do softwood also. The best teeth for softwood is the perforated lance type which consist of cutting teeth alternating with 'raker' teeth. Former slice the wood at the side of the kerf, then the raker teeth come along like a rip tooth to remove the 'woodchips'. Rare to find the lance toothed saws in UK and from what I've gleaned can be a pain to sharpen and maintain, hence I've settled for the GAT. 

Sharpening is just with the large saw file, available from the two retailers (and no doubt others) mentioned earlier. The trick is the sharpening geometry - there's lots of opinions out there. I have my own plan (subject to change  ) which I'm happy to share but don't wish to be premature as I haven't yet tried it (another project takes priority and SWMBO's given a deadline  ) and tested my theory.


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## Sheffield Tony (28 Nov 2014)

I would stick to the original plan. I'm prepared to accept that there are useable bow saws, but I have yet to find one. 

You can buy a new one man or two man crosscut saw from Thomas Flinn, if you don't have the patience to wait for a second hand one to come up. See them made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_qf9QGHfBg

You'll need more cash though. And a saw file. They don't hand sharpen them when the TV camera is not watching, by the look of mine - the teeth were just punched. Works well when fettled though.

I see Mike.S has beat me to it.


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## Mike.S (28 Nov 2014)

Sheffield Tony":1t9pkht6 said:


> I would stick to the original plan. I'm prepared to accept that there are useable bow saws, but I have yet to find one.
> 
> You'll need more cash though. And a saw file. They don't hand sharpen them when the TV camera is not watching, by the look of mine - the teeth were just punched. Works well when fettled though.


 
+1 for sticking to the original plan. 

I paid under a tenner each for the fleabay saws and they crop up regularly - P&P or collection being the catch. It's apparent from the saws I have that buyers don't realise they need to be sharpened i.e. they're sold with punched teeth but need some sharpening (especially fleam) befor use. This isn't made clear by Flinn but is implied by Schmid's site where saws are offered either as 'Standard Finish' or 'Hand-Sharpened Finish'. 

To whet your appetite read this.


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## John15 (28 Nov 2014)

My father worked many years for The Forestry Commission and I can remember him felling trees up to about 10" dia. using an axe to cut a bird-mouth (not the correct name) on one side and then cutting from the opposite side with a bow saw. He also brought logs home for the fire which again were cut with a bow saw.

John


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Nov 2014)

If it's too big for a log saw, do yourself a favour - get a chainsaw.


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## wizard (28 Nov 2014)

Don’t get a chain saw there will be arguments on here on how to sharpen it


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## dickm (28 Nov 2014)

Get an old, two-handed saw and find a suitable partner to use with it. Spent many happy hours as a lad on one end of such a saw with my Grandfather. With the right balance and rhythm, the speed of cut was really satisfying. The saw is still in my shed 60 years later, but never really trained SWMBO in its use


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## Bod (28 Nov 2014)

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/rec ... 22/toc.cfm

The site that will tell you all you need to know.
These one/two man crosscut saws sell well at car-boots, £5-25 range.

Bod

Ps read "Transportation by packstock"


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## xy mosian (28 Nov 2014)

I was given this saw many years ago. It is used rarely, sometimes filed rip cut, sometimes cross cut - as here. The blade is 36 1/2" long at the tooth tip. I like the weight, it helps the cut, and I like the rigidity of the blade compared with a bow saw.





No prizes for working out/guessing the wood. I haven't seen it at this sort of size very often.

xy


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## pedder (28 Nov 2014)

I've got one of this: 

http://www.ebay.de/itm/BW-Bugelsage-Sag ... 27d16e96ca

They are long and sharp and don't bind even in wet wood.

Cheers 
Pedder


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## aesmith (29 Nov 2014)

Something like this ... http://youtu.be/9AMRSNZffe0

By the way, those "Bow Saws" shown above (we know them as bushman saws), can be made to cut straight if you adjust the set. Also I've had some success by sharpening only the teeth on the side it doesn't want to go.


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Nov 2014)

Bow saws/log saws call them what you will (although to me bow saws are wooden "H" shaped things) are designed to cut easily and quickly - it doesn't matter a jot if your logs have a bit of a curved end.


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## aesmith (29 Nov 2014)

phil.p":35wb9y8c said:


> Bow saws/log saws call them what you will (although to me bow saws are wooden "H" shaped things) are designed to cut easily and quickly - it doesn't matter a jot if your logs have a bit of a curved end.


When you're up a tree or in some other awkward position it's a pain if the saw won't cut straight because it takes more time and effort to complete the cut.


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## Sheffield Tony (29 Nov 2014)

It also helps if your logs stand up nicely while you split them.


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## Bod (29 Nov 2014)

Mike.S":azhciz9g said:


> Have a couple of those for fettling and, by coincidence, about to pick up three acquired on fleabay. Hopefully, one or two will be quality and rest can be recycled. All have the 'Great American Tooth, pattern, like the top one in your picture.
> 
> New versions are available from Thomas Flinn and Dieter Schmid.
> 
> ...



Having had the experience of using a cheap poor quality blade, I can say using a Bacho blade transformed the saw, out of all recognition!
As with all saws, its the quality of the blade, not the handle.

Bod


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Nov 2014)

Sheffield Tony":3pxdtsdm said:


> It also helps if your logs stand up nicely while you split them.



If they are large enough to merit splitting, I use a chainsaw in first place.


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## bugbear (30 Nov 2014)

Bod":1vf2v3g3 said:


> Having had the experience of using a cheap poor quality blade, I can say using a Bacho blade transformed the saw, out of all recognition!
> As with all saws, its the quality of the blade, not the handle.
> 
> Bod



It important (in a bow saw) that the frame can apply enough tension; a slack blade is a recipe for misery,
even if the blade is of good quality.

BugBear


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## ATsawyer (30 Nov 2014)

Saw your post and thought I'd contribute, not wanting to just lurk here. I recently filed up my first GA saw and found it to cut rather well once sharp. Though not as fast as my peg and raker saws, it starts easily, runs smoothly, and doesn't hang up. I posted a summary of my filing steps on a US website, but it appears that I don't have permission to provide a link that page. Perhaps that comes with time?

Anyway, keeping all edges perfectly square or proportional and filing in line with the gullets seemed to give the best results. Setting was done with a coned hammer and the anvil was canted on the outside teeth to align with the tooth's axis.


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## heimlaga (1 Dec 2014)

There are too many bad bow saws and bad bow saw blades on the market.
The pipe frame has to be rigid enough to give the blade a proper tension unlike the Chineese bow saws sold today. Elderly Swedish bow saws are much better. For vertical cutting the Finnish made Purmo bow saws are considered to be the best as the frame is very heavy so it pushes itself down into the wood. They aren't made any more.
When it comes to blades I prefere Sandvik/Bahco blades and do not use anything else. The cheap blades just don't do the job. 

I have two or three of those old one man felling saws but I never use them. Mostly I use my Husqvarna 353 chain saw.


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## digitalbot (1 Dec 2014)

Thanks for all the info people. 
I have two bow saws and have tried them on firewood size logs -9" plus- but I also find that they wander in the cut and blunt really quickly too. I don't think the sandvik stuff is of the same quality as it used to be. They are ok for branches up to about 4" wide, a bit of apple tree pruning but anything more than that and something more robust is warranted I feel.
Hopefully something will present itself on the bay and i'll be the only one who wants it ( ha!..fat chance ). 
I'll probably go for a long-ish one man job. As long as the one I pick up only needs a good clean, a fettle and a sharpen i'll be ok but I had a look one of those american sites from the links provided and there is a lot of other work needed to keep the big ones with the longer tooth pattens in check...hammering over the crown like raker teeth, setting by hand with a saw hammer and iron anvil, etc. Probably a lot more than my old B+D workmate can handle.

I'll be interested to hear the outcome of mike.s' sharpening experiment as and when.


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## wizard (1 Dec 2014)

For cutting logs i use a bosch electric chainsaw, cut down a two foot thick tree with it last year.


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## ATsawyer (1 Dec 2014)

Thanks to Mike S. for explaining the three-post rule for initiates. Pic of outside edge of GA saw tooth being trued up with crosscut saw file. This will guarantee me clean steel to the tip when pointing up.


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## ATsawyer (1 Dec 2014)

GA saw in test log. Cuts smoothly in dry oak.


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## bugbear (2 Dec 2014)

digitalbot":3k8qka8f said:


> I'll probably go for a long-ish one man job.



These often go for more money than you'd like, 'cos they make quite a visual statement on pub walls...

On the bright side, I think it takes a LOT of corrosion to damage them, they're pretty sturdy.

BugBear


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## digitalbot (3 Dec 2014)

I've seen them painted!!! as signs and going for £60. What a waste.


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