# My first projects on a lathe



## JohnMessUK (4 May 2013)

Hi All,

I have been interested in buying a lathe for a long time but was never sure if I would enjoy it or not so I bought a Clarke cwl1000 lathe and love turning.

Now its not the best lathe in the world but it fitted my budget and the thinking that if I could not enjoy it I could sell it on or take a hit on it.

I have a few things I could do with a bit of advice on.

1. When ever I sand even through the grits I am having trouble with sanding lines. They could be tool marks but I start seeing them when sanding. I start with 80grit then move up I keep seeing lines in the piece.

2. Hollowing out, I am having trouble with picking the correct chisel to use for hollowing out not bowls but more confined spaces. What is the best chisel to use for hollowing out.

3. Lathe speed. I have tended to keep my lathe at 1750rpm but it will go higher and lower can anyone suggest when it would be better to use a higher or lower speed?

I have attached a few pictures if you don't mind looking them over and giving any advice that would be great.


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## Brianp (4 May 2013)

Nice pieces! I like the bangles, and would be interested in reading how you did them! 

I'm new to turning too, but I'd try the following answers to 2 of your questions...I'm sure it's gonna be followed up pretty quick on the forum if I've the wrong end of the stick! (which will be helpful for me too!)

1) Keep the sandpaper moving on the piece as it turns, which will help reduce the production of sanding lines. As an option, invest in a sanding arbour for a drill, which will give an even more random sanding pattern!

3) Low speeds for unbalanced or heavy pieces, and I would also say for sanding too. Higher speeds for most other aspects of the work?


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## Spindle (4 May 2013)

Hi

1. The marks look like sanding marks to me - you appear to have not removed all of the signs of a coarser grit before moving to an even finer one, what grits are you using after the 80 you mention?
It often helps to hand sand with the grain occasionally, (no need to remove the work from the lathe).

2. Depending on size I use either a spindle gouge, a round nosed scraper or a bedan, (or combination of them), - the bedan is useful for cutting square corners at the bottom of boxes.

3. If the work is in balance I tend to up the speed once I've roughed it to round. The theoretical ideal speed is dependant on the diameter of the work, (actually the speed that the work passes to tool), I guess I set about 2000 rpm for a 2" spindle - it's really what sounds and feels correct - it will come with practice, try experimenting.

Regards Mick


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## nev (4 May 2013)

Hi John
What they say +1
(I type too slowly)

Speeds: 
generally speaking go slower for roughing, bigger diameter and unbalanced pieces _and sanding_ and faster for thinner diameter pieces.

abrasives:
a decent abrasive is a must. (try Richards rhyno sample pack) or some abranet rather than the DIY shop stuff.
Lathe slow, light pressure, and dont skip the grades, not moving on to the next before you have removed all marks. (you'll just be wasting your paper)

hollowing:
use a spindle gouge on its side and start at the centre. rest height so the centre of the gouge is fractionally below the centre of the work, flute on gouge at 9 oclock and 'push' in to work, effectively drilling a hole down the centre. as you draw the gouge out assert a little pressure to 3 oclock cutting with the lower cutting edge. (easier done than said).
In order to get an inside 'corner 'swap to a small flat or round scraper, or if youre rich a dedicated box hollowing scraper


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## JohnMessUK (4 May 2013)

Thanks for the replies so far. 

Brianp the braclet has a stone inlay I made from following this guys video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPe_WfwkFBg 

Its not a difficult process to follow except for getting the stones crushed down to the right size. I used stones I found in a gift shop there the semi precious types you see in the little boxes. I would say though I tried one with amethyst and it did not have any colour and look pretty bad. The softer the stone the eaiser of course it is to shape but I used an old stone cutting disc once the super glue was set and it worked well plus I was able to keep the lathe going instead of doing it the hard way. 

The copper inlay I got from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J828cRAcpw super glue is used here to keep the wire in. The only problem I have come across is the smaller the diamiter of the piece the more tension the bent wire is under and it can be a real pain to glue up. I think if I do any small peices again with copper wire I will use an epoxy glue instead.

Spindle, for the sanding I used 80, 100, 120, 150, 220 but I think you are right I am maybe not giving each grit time to do the job right. I will have a look at the beden chisel as the bottom of the pieces is where I seem to have my most bother. I will play around with the speeds and find out what works. 

Thanks Nev I have been using cheap B&Q sand paper so that could be a problem.


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## nev (4 May 2013)

it will be a revelation :shock: when you try a decent abrasive. 
I used to start at 80 (or even 60 with some woods) and then 120, 180, 240, 320, 400 and sometimes 600. 
now I'm getting the hang of tool sharpening I can start at 240 or 320 then go 400 and then red nyweb pad (6/800?) and then yellow (1000?). job done!


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## CHJ (4 May 2013)

JohnMessUK":1beluh6z said:


> .....
> 1. When ever I sand even through the grits I am having trouble with sanding lines. They could be tool marks but I start seeing them when sanding. I start with 80grit then move up I keep seeing lines in the piece.......



Pressing too hard with your sanding media will cause deeper scratches, if your abrasive is sharp you should see a stream of dust flying off the piece with only just enough pressure to make contact.
The ones on the piece indicate that you are not moving the abrasive around enough and leaving scratch tracks that the brain can easily resolve, as mentioned a rapid rotary movement as achieved by a rotary sanding disc or mimicked by hand sanding in a circular motion will reduce their visibility.

On the piece you have pointed to, if you sand in line with the grain with the piece stationary the scratch lines will no doubt be less visible. Does not mean they are not there, just that the eye/brain can't resolve them as being any different to the grain detail of the wood.

Be prepared to hand sand with the grain and stationary as much as you sand with the lathe turning on some pieces, always aim to sand with the grain or at least reduce the long continuous cross grain scratches as much as possible.

With the majority of woods sanding with the grain will render the scratches not readily visible by the time you reach 240 grit at most.


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## JohnMessUK (4 May 2013)

CHJ":2ucl5los said:


> Pressing too hard with your sanding media will cause deeper scratches, if your abrasive is sharp you should see a stream of dust flying off the piece with only just enough pressure to make contact.
> The ones on the piece indicate that you are not moving the abrasive around enough and leaving scratch tracks that the brain can easily resolve, as mentioned a rapid rotary movement as achieved by a rotary sanding disc or mimicked by hand sanding in a circular motion will reduce their visibility.
> 
> On the piece you have pointed to, if you sand in line with the grain with the piece stationary the scratch lines will no doubt be less visible. Does not mean they are not there, just that the eye/brain can't resolve them as being any different to the grain detail of the wood.
> ...



I think you have hit on something I have been doing wrong, I do think I am pressing to hard now I think of it so will try a lighter touch next time. For the peices above I used Leylandii wood for one of the braclets and the round box and I think a combination of the way the grain runs and then pressing to hard is making the lines very visable. Thanks for the tip. 

Getting a lathe has deffinetly been a big learning curve but very enjoyable.


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## CHJ (4 May 2013)

To get a feel for scratch visibility in relation to wood types and abrasive grade try a few experiments off the lathe or if you are practising spindle turning, on the lathe.

Take a soft wood like your leylandii and some oak/ash then beech and a dark reasonably fine grained wood like Walnut.

Starting with 120 grit rub across the grain. inspect, now rub with the grain and again inspect, note resulting difference in appearance.
Do this with grits down to 240-320 and you will see that the visible scratches 'disappear' earlier than you might think rubbing with the grain.


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## Random Orbital Bob (4 May 2013)

Nice pieces by the way

One thing no ones mentioned...well two things actually:

When you do your last few cuts, re sharpen the gouge/scraper/bedan because that very last pass is the most important for leaving a decent finish. Once you get the hang of that you can often begin sanding at 240...makes life a lot easier. The wood sprites dont always let you, specially if theres some punky bits. Also try going both "up" and down" hill despite the rules, again sometimes the grain needs to go the opposite way to the way the rules are normally written for tool presentation.

The 2nd point which another poster mentioned is the issue of power sanding. It makes AN ENORMOUS difference because the very nature of the fact the abranet is attached to a spinning disc means you cant dwell on a bit too long and over scratch it. I use an 18V hand held with inexpensive arbors with a velcro foam pad that takes velcro discs. It makes a serious difference.

So sharp tools with the final passes and power sanding.

I then do the final polishing sand by hand with 400, sometimes 6 if Im feeling on the edge  Another great tip with power sanding is if you have a stubborn bit, stop the lathe and continue with the power disc right on the piece...then when its gone, power the lathe and blend that spot in.
Heres what I mean (Rosewood)


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## JohnMessUK (4 May 2013)

Thats a lovely peice of work Bob. I think I will order me an arbour and some pads. On a side note can I ask where you source your wood from? Being in North east Scotland I unfortunetlly have no good sawmills nearby that will do much more than pine. Now and again they have in some hardwood but its pretty rare.


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## Silverbirch (4 May 2013)

For a source of timber, Barmossie Woodturning Supplies, Moss of Barmuckity, Elgin, tel 07966298026 advertises "Scottish Hardwoods and Exotic Timbers" in Woodturning Magazine regularly. Unfortunately, they only appear to be open on Saturday mornings, but might be worth checking out if they are not too far from you.

Ian


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## dickm (5 May 2013)

Haven't tried Barmossie (Elgin is a good hour's drive) but if you are nearer Aberdeen, then Colin Cooper (Aberdeenshire Hardwoods) had a good variety of stuff. Dave Piercy in Ythanwells has some interesting UK hardwoods. But beyond those, you are right - it's something of a timber desert unless you want wood chips!


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## Tazmaniandevil (5 May 2013)

As a relative newbie myself, I would echo what everyone has said above. Too much too quick is a killer. Don't try to sand what you turn in 5 minutes. Light passes with good quality abrasives is the ticket. Poundland sandpaper does exactly what is says on the tin.
Use cloth backed abrasives. They last longer and give a far better finish.
Keep your tools sharp. I often give my tools a quick tickle during turning. When you get near the shape you want, take lighter and lighter cuts. Make sure you ride the bevel all the time. (easier said than done to begin with)
Inside boxes, a good sharp bowl gouge is essential, and use a square scraper or a bedan to get the sides totally uniform and shape a square edge for the base.
A bedan tool is also great for turning beads. Once you learn how it works you will love it.


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## EnErY (6 May 2013)

All fine Pieces cannot fault them my first turnings helped my chimera going :lol: But these are something to be proud of =D> 
Regards
Bill


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## pipp (6 May 2013)

Hello I`m pretty new to turning and was having the same problems as you so I got some abranet sanding pads I go through 8 grits I think they start at 80 and end at 600 and I cannot believe the finish I am getting its a completely different finish to the £1 shop sandpaper (throw it in the bin I did).


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## stevenw1963 (6 May 2013)

There used to be a chap on Ebay from your neck of the woods who used to sell a 10 kg box of decent hardwoods - can't remember his name tho - but worth a look on there although postage costs might be a bit more expensive to you.


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## Dangermouse (6 May 2013)

I cant believe people start at 80 grit, for me that's way tooooooooo rough. No wonder your getting scratch marks. Keep your tools nice and sharp, sharpen them through out the job. Then start at say 150 and go on up. I finish using the shavings from the wood itself, gives a near mirror finish.


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## nev (6 May 2013)

Dangermouse":32rkyx6h said:


> I cant believe people start at 80 grit, for me that's way tooooooooo rough....



It is now! but when I first started poking spinning bits of wood with enthusiasm but (with hindsight) blunt tools and no idea about technique etc, 80 grit or even 60 :shock: was where i needed to start to get rid of the tool marks.
As ones technique and tool sharpening technique improve you will find that your starting grit gets finer and finer, until that hallowed day when your turning is so good no abrasive will be needed at all 8) 

I think it could be used as good grade indicator for turning ability. Currently (on average) I am a 240 - 320 grit turner.


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## Dangermouse (6 May 2013)

Fair point Nev.


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## spinks (6 May 2013)

I use abranet and start at about 180 or 240 depending on what wood I have and how many tear outs I have!!


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## Random Orbital Bob (7 May 2013)

JohnMessUK":27q05d1w said:


> Thats a lovely peice of work Bob. I think I will order me an arbour and some pads. On a side note can I ask where you source your wood from? Being in North east Scotland I unfortunetlly have no good sawmills nearby that will do much more than pine. Now and again they have in some hardwood but its pretty rare.



Hi John

That Rosewood believe it or not I picked up at Axminster. My nearest branch is High Wycombe in Bucks and whilst perusing staggeringly expensive hollowing tools I noticed they had a pile of gnarled looking and somewhat ancient blanks of various exotics like zebrano, Bubinga etc. after routing about I found this tiddler of £4 whipped it and turned it the moment I got it home. You're probabably better off with specialist wood turning suppliers, this was just dumb luck!

I turn mostly English native spp to keep the cost contained. I particularly like oak

Needless to say I didn't buy any of the expensive hollowing tools!


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