# Custom MFT top



## Dom Brider (22 Sep 2021)

Hi All. Is anybody aware of a company that produces custom sized MFT tops? I want to make a slightly tweaked version of Peter Millards portable workbench (1400 x 600mm). CNC designs and the other one that PM recommended have unfortunately stopped doing them. I’ve made my own before, don’t want to get into that again. I’ve just invested a small fortune in BenchdogsUK gear, I need those holes to be spot on. Thanks in advance…


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## Stokes&co (22 Sep 2021)

Hi mate, the last ones I got done (1 normal size and one 1500 x 1000 ish for an assembly bench) were by a guy called Mick in Reading. He was great, it’s Formatic CNC if you google it and get in touch, he’ll definitely help. Mine were in birch ply by the way. Cheers, Pat.


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## Dom Brider (22 Sep 2021)

Hi Pat. Cheers for the mega fast reply! I tried Formatic yesterday. Unfortunately (for me) he’s got a 2 month lead time at the moment. Sounds like Mick is a busy bee! Looking to get this sorted ASAP. Thanks anyway though


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## Stokes&co (22 Sep 2021)

Ah no! Sorry about that mate, best of luck


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## galleywood (22 Sep 2021)

I built a slightly modified version of Peter's portable workbench using CNC design's MFT style top.
The top is wider than Peter's (but that is no bad thing) and therefore is not flat at the back when erecting it.
The bench is heavy, so take heed of Peter's lightweight version - my one could do with some lightening holes.
I made a dolly, to move it around (and out) of the workshop.
It works, is sturdy and a little wider than Peter's.
Go for it.


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## BucksDad (22 Sep 2021)

Try contacting norfolkbespokewoodworks on ebay. Peter M featured him recently with a MFT top for systainers that he sells. Looks like he would do custom work


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## Dlyxover (22 Sep 2021)

I've sent you a message


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## ian33a (23 Sep 2021)

I know you've made them before but were unhappy with the result. I built a couple of them for my bench using the Parf II system and it was quick, dead easy and, going the five part cut as a test, turned out very well. I also have a load of Benchdogs kit and it works nicely. The Parf system is expensive up front but, once you have it, you can make any custom size you want.


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## petermillard (23 Sep 2021)

It was Mick at Formatic who did the tops for my portable bench originally. Unfortunately he seems to be having some issues, and really started letting folks down - including me - so I’m afraid I’ve had to look elsewhere. I did have a discussion with Rhys at Norfolk Bespoke Woodworks, but he’s actually decided to stop making MFT tops generally, as they cause too him too many headaches for what they bring in, and CNC Design have stopped doing custom work.

If anyone does find a company willing to make a bespoke top I’d be all ears!
best, P


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## Chrispy (23 Sep 2021)

I'm willing to make you one, if you want send me the details and I'll have a look.


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## BrendonR (23 Sep 2021)

I've got a standard top from Mick at Formatic, but when I started looking at custom size one I found Jack Tools and Workshop – Woodemporium - he's willing to do custom sizes, I haven't bought anything from him yet so please do your own research.


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## Spectric (23 Sep 2021)

Anyone tried the one from MDF Pro Jig to make Replacement Perforated Festool Type MFT /3 - LP Top

Have used the parf system and it is good but I have noted that the holes where you can clamp the drill guide down are a better fit than the ones in the middle that are not clamped, so using a 12.7mm cutter and 30mm bush in a router with this cnc made template should deliver perfect results, and any size board you want. If you then want to ensure the sides are square to the hole pattern just use a tracksaw and some dogs.


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## Jacob (23 Sep 2021)

Brian is into this and is just getting set up in Berwick on Tweed Log into Facebook


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## petermillard (24 Sep 2021)

Chrispy said:


> I'm willing to make you one, if you want send me the details and I'll have a look.


Is this something you’d be interested in doing commercially? I’m selling 20-30 sets of plans a month, and while my bench was designed so that a standard MFT top could be easily adapted, a 1200 or 1400 wide top is a better option for most.
Thanks, P


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## Oaktree11 (24 Sep 2021)

ian33a said:


> I know you've made them before but were unhappy with the result. I built a couple of them for my bench using the Parf II system and it was quick, dead easy and, going the five part cut as a test, turned out very well. I also have a load of Benchdogs kit and it works nicely. The Parf system is expensive up front but, once you have it, you can make any custom size you want.


+1 for the PARF MKII. I had the MKI and never really had success but the MKII is a world apart. It IS expensive but as you say gives ultimate flexibility and very, very precise holes. John


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## Oaktree11 (24 Sep 2021)

Spectric said:


> Anyone tried the one from MDF Pro Jig to make Replacement Perforated Festool Type MFT /3 - LP Top
> 
> Have used the parf system and it is good but I have noted that the holes where you can clamp the drill guide down are a better fit than the ones in the middle that are not clamped, so using a 12.7mm cutter and 30mm bush in a router with this cnc made template should deliver perfect results, and any size board you want. If you then want to ensure the sides are square to the hole pattern just use a tracksaw and some dogs.


Sorry but I just don’t agree. If you follow the instructions, work from the center all the holes can be really accurate with the MKII system. John


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## Graham Brazier (24 Sep 2021)

Anyone used this jig , posted from Germany I’m tempted but unsure about import duties ,


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## Dom Brider (24 Sep 2021)

Thanks for all the responses guys. I just received my bench dogs gear yesterday, I think I'd better play with standard size MFT for a month or so before figuring out my custom size. Essentially I think the standard depth (718mm) is fine, I just want the 1400mm to allow a little more room to play. 

Not sure if I should start another thread here but I'm having trouble setting the bench dogs gear up. I bought the rail square which seems to be spot on, no issues there. It's the fenceM2/rail dogs set up that is foxing me. I assumed there is no calibration necessary but my cuts are way off. Any tips for this set up? I figured the fence/fencedogs coupled with rail dogs/b collars would just slot it, tighten up and be square to the holes? 

Confused and a bit disappointed, I then put the old Festool MFT rail back on, moved the factory stops and squared that up (I copied Peters method from his video about changing his old top). I used a very accurate Woodpeckers straight edge up against X2 dogs. Used my feeler gauges, all good. The cuts are off in exactly the same way! All I can assume is that the holes in the table are not accurate as both methods rely on them. 

Any tips? If the holes are the issue then I could get a new top but I've already spent £350 + on bench dogsUK stuff so thought it worth asking before spending even more cash. The UJK Valchromat top claims to have 'perfectly aligned holes' but who knows if that's true. Or I could buy the Part MII for not much more. God only knows what's more accurate. You'd assume CNC but I guess it depends on who's doing it. Plus I don't even know if the holes are the problem! 

Any tips would be greatly appreciated, I don't want to be regretting this purchase  Dom


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## Chrispy (24 Sep 2021)

petermillard said:


> Is this something you’d be interested in doing commercially? I’m selling 20-30 sets of plans a month, and while my bench was designed so that a standard MFT top could be easily adapted, a 1200 or 1400 wide top is a better option for most.
> Thanks, P


Yes please, always prepared to have a look at any job.


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## MikeK (24 Sep 2021)

Spectric said:


> Have used the parf system and it is good but I have noted that the holes where you can clamp the drill guide down are a better fit than the ones in the middle that are not clamped, so using a 12.7mm cutter and 30mm bush in a router with this cnc made template should deliver perfect results, and any size board you want. If you then want to ensure the sides are square to the hole pattern just use a tracksaw and some dogs.





Oaktree11 said:


> Sorry but I just don’t agree. If you follow the instructions, work from the center all the holes can be really accurate with the MKII system. John



I had excellent results from the UJK Parf MK II Guide System on my 2x1 meter worktop with 200 holes. Had I followed the instructions, I would have started from the center, worked to the edges, and trimmed the edges to match the grid pattern of the holes. Instead, I started in one corner and worked my way to the opposite corner. 

I still trimmed the long edges of the Valchromat top using the track saw, but the alignment of the holes were perfect (in my opinion) for any woodworking projects I will be doing. I spot checked the top in ten places using my TSO MTR-18 square and four UJK Bench Dogs, and there were no gaps between the square and dogs. I also checked the alignment of holes along the 2-meter length using the 3-meter track saw guide, and I couldn't put a 0.03mm feeler gauge between the track saw edge and bench dogs along the side. 

Maybe I was lucky, but I think my results are due to being patient and not rushing the drilling of the pilot holes or the 20mm holes. I never clamped the 20mm drill guide because I didn't have to. As soon as it was located and fixed in place, it did not shift or tilt.

I wish the 1-meter long Parf sticks had V-grooves in the ends with the apex of the groove along the center line of the 6mm holes for the pilot bushing. This would make it much easier, at least for me, to align the sticks along a reference line instead of relying on the line perfectly bisecting the 6mm hole.


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## Spectric (24 Sep 2021)

MikeK said:


> I started in one corner and worked my way to the opposite corner.


That is logical and how I did it,


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## Spectric (24 Sep 2021)

The accuracy is good but it is the fit that is different, outermost holes are noticably tighter than the inner ones and so have been playing. There are a lot of variables, the issue with the parf is that you have a long drill with a drill attached and any movement at that end is amplified at the cutting face, so a combination of drill, person and extraction. With the router you are held in place by the bush, pushing the router down helps stability and you get same fit holes anywhere. So back to parf, I hung my power drill up with a flexy drive and powered through a footswitch, this removed the weight and bulky drill from the drill bit and I only had a lightweight chuck to handle, this gave better fit holes than previous so technique and drill make a difference.


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## ian33a (25 Sep 2021)

Dom Brider said:


> Thanks for all the responses guys. I just received my bench dogs gear yesterday, I think I'd better play with standard size MFT for a month or so before figuring out my custom size. Essentially I think the standard depth (718mm) is fine, I just want the 1400mm to allow a little more room to play.
> 
> Not sure if I should start another thread here but I'm having trouble setting the bench dogs gear up. I bought the rail square which seems to be spot on, no issues there. It's the fenceM2/rail dogs set up that is foxing me. I assumed there is no calibration necessary but my cuts are way off. Any tips for this set up? I figured the fence/fencedogs coupled with rail dogs/b collars would just slot it, tighten up and be square to the holes?
> 
> ...



I have the square as well as the 1400mm fence and it has been spot on when installed on a Parf II array of holes. If you haven't been here, you might like to watch this video and a few of the other ones that Andy has done: 

Benchdogs Mk2 Fence system - Review - YouTube 

There isn't any calibration aside from setting the skinny ruler underneath the place where the rails sit. I didn't quite get mine right and took a slither out of my rail with my TS-55. Not the end of the world, but be careful. 







and the picture above shows the dogs and a rail installed in the MFT's in my home made bench. The MFT array is contiguous between the two inserts so I can extend the grid for about 1.5 metres if I wish. To be honest though, the benchdog system allows you to place the fence dogs wherever you wish so such a long contiguous array isn't necessary. What is necessary though, in my case, is for the rows to be exactly aligned on each MFT.

I spent several hours with Peter Parfitt some months ago and he reiterated how important it is on a large array to start in the middle and work outwards. So I did exactly that with this bench. As I say, Parf II worked very well for me but I took my time and was careful. I cannot comment regarding Parf I.

My 5 cut test was on a section of wood using the set up above and it was some silly fraction of a degree out.


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## Oaktree11 (25 Sep 2021)

MikeK said:


> I had excellent results from the UJK Parf MK II Guide System on my 2x1 meter worktop with 200 holes. Had I followed the instructions, I would have started from the center, worked to the edges, and trimmed the edges to match the grid pattern of the holes. Instead, I started in one corner and worked my way to the opposite corner.
> 
> I still trimmed the long edges of the Valchromat top using the track saw, but the alignment of the holes were perfect (in my opinion) for any woodworking projects I will be doing. I spot checked the top in ten places using my TSO MTR-18 square and four UJK Bench Dogs, and there were no gaps between the square and dogs. I also checked the alignment of holes along the 2-meter length using the 3-meter track saw guide, and I couldn't put a 0.03mm feeler gauge between the track saw edge and bench dogs along the side.
> 
> ...


It seems more intuitive to start at one corner and work across. That was half my problem with the MKI system! If you are really careful I am sure this can be as accurate. I can see why starting in the middle is a better way and it certainly worked for me. At the end of the day, however you do this it is the care and attention of the user that determines the result. I found the holes were a really tight fit and used the UKJ hole reamer which produced perfect (for me) dimensioned holes.


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## ian33a (25 Sep 2021)

Oaktree11 said:


> It seems more intuitive to start at one corner and work across. That was half my problem with the MKI system! If you are really careful I am sure this can be as accurate. I can see why starting in the middle is a better way and it certainly worked for me. At the end of the day, however you do this it is the care and attention of the user that determines the result. I found the holes were a really tight fit and used the UKJ hole reamer which produced perfect (for me) dimensioned holes.



I probably should be a bit clearer : If the array of holes can be cut within the length of two parf sticks then there is no problem starting in one corner and working outwards. In fact, that should be the most precise method. 

If, however, the array needs to be bigger than a parf stick in one or both directions, then Peter recommends that you start in the middle and extend outwards so as to build the larger array. This was the case with my MFT set up as I wanted to extend the array right across the bench and cover two MFT inserts.


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## pe2dave (25 Sep 2021)

Dom Brider said:


> Thanks for all the responses guys. I just received my bench dogs gear yesterday, I think I'd better play with standard size MFT for a month or so before figuring out my custom size. Essentially I think the standard depth (718mm) is fine, I just want the 1400mm to allow a little more room to play.


Option: Buy two 'standard' CNC design tops, cut second to suit?
Guess, price wouldn't be much different to custom size? 
I guess depends on stability of your base to do that, but should be manageable.


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## Spectric (30 Sep 2021)

Been looking at @ian33a 's bench design again along with several others and it is different from many others in that it is modular and is not tying you down to a system. By this I mean you can have the 20mm holes but you can equally swap out the inserts for no holes, holes and micro jig slots or a router insert in one and then use the Incra positioner and Benchdogs locating plate in the other, it is something I am looking at for my next modular bench design to free up floor space by illiminating the Kreg router table. It also has very clean lines for a workbench, it is like a piece of furniture so well done, I like it.

The one thing I may do different is to have a front apron that is hinged or removable with 20mm holes and microjig slots like Denis from Hooked on wood has done which allows you to work round corners and hold work side on upright.


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## ian33a (30 Sep 2021)

Spectric said:


> Been looking at @ian33a 's bench design again along with several others and it is different from many others in that it is modular and is not tying you down to a system. By this I mean you can have the 20mm holes but you can equally swap out the inserts for no holes, holes and micro jig slots or a router insert in one and then use the Incra positioner and Benchdogs locating plate in the other, it is something I am looking at for my next modular bench design to free up floor space by illiminating the Kreg router table. It also has very clean lines for a workbench, it is like a piece of furniture so well done, I like it.
> 
> The one thing I may do different is to have a front apron that is hinged or removable with 20mm holes and microjig slots like Denis from Hooked on wood has done which allows you to work round corners and hold work side on upright.



indeed, this is very much the case. In this design (from The Woodgrafter) he started off with the design that I followed but also offered a table insert with a router lift as an alternative. The shelves underneath actually lift out so can accommodate the depth of a router and lifter if so desired. I have a separate router table so decided to simply stay with the double MFT design. I guess it may even be possible to incorporate a table saw insert and use the table surfaces as run in and run outs for the wood.

I don’t have 20mm holes on the vertical but my version has double T slots (by Inca) so that work can be held vertically. The double slots are important as it stops larger sheets of material from whipping. I can slot in Festool and Axminster MFT clamps quite easily with a small amount of lubrication wax to reduce friction.

thank you for praising the work that I have done. I’m no expert with woodworking (I hadn‘t done a mortise and tenon joint since leaving school over 40 years ago and I was almost scared to turn on my router when I first started the project!) and this is by far the most complicated piece of woodwork that I have ever done. There are more simple designs but I saw this as a challenge. It took me several weeks to build and I’m delighted with it.


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## Bojam (30 Sep 2021)

Spectric said:


> It also has very clean lines for a workbench, it is like a piece of furniture so well done, I like it.



Me too. Great work Ian. Like Spectric, I would seriously consider this design for my next bench and agree on the idea of an hinged apron with microjig slots. Hope you enjoy using it!


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## martin.pearson (6 Oct 2021)

Maybe not the right place to ask but are people using this style of bench instead of the more traditional workbench or as an extra? I made mine because I wanted something that I could use at my workshop (rented) & my home. I already had a centipede pop up frame so built a top to fit that, having a CNC makes things like that a lot easier lol


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## ian33a (6 Oct 2021)

martin.pearson said:


> Maybe not the right place to ask but are people using this style of bench instead of the more traditional workbench or as an extra? I made mine because I wanted something that I could use at my workshop (rented) & my home. I already had a centipede pop up frame so built a top to fit that, having a CNC makes things like that a lot easier lol



In my case, I have a general work bench that I built 35 years ago. It isn't massive and doesn't work well with sheet materials. My new bench is bigger and supports modern power tools better. So, I use both types.


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