# The on going Cyclone tale



## DaveL (5 Aug 2004)

Many moons ago I started to make a cyclone. I bought a set of plans from Wood Magazine in the states and a sheet of 3/4" MDF. Having just checked my old pictures I had cut up the MDF in the summer of 2002 and the cyclone is still not finished  (Hum not sure I have time to make a box for the competition, which year does it close :wink: )

An way I have gone back to this project now I have more power tools that full the dust bag, the bin on the cyclone should be easier to deal with. Also I get a bit more space back in the workshop which would be good  

I managed to get the central frame screwed to the wall last weekend.






I have assembled the cone, and made a set of wooden rings to fit the hose adaptor.









The next step was to make the cylinder and fit the inlet pipe, one of my friends produced the shape of the hole require for my pipe and cylinder sizes. So armed with a jig saw fitted with a hacksaw blade and a half round file I thought I would soon have the next part done and fitted.




I cut the hole and spent some time filing to try and make the pipe fit better. In the end I assembled it thinking I would just cut a couple of filler strips and use lots of sealer  





The pipe was still a disappointing fit  





Well I went out the to the workshop this evening to *make* it fit. I took the pipe to the router table and rounded the ends and on offering it back up to the cylinder the fit was much better :shock: 





Yes well no prizes for guessing that I had spent ages trying to fit the pipe in to the from the wrong direction :x  

I have rolled the cylinder up inside out :roll: I think I will just cut a new hole in a spare bit of steel and rivet it on as I cannot face taking the thing to bits and trying to re-roll it the other way.

As they say the best laid plains of mice and men....and what have men got to do with it.


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## Noel (5 Aug 2004)

Dave, interesting project. What blower are you going to use?
I think the curve and angle hassle is familiar to quite a few of us.......Always find cardboard rolled into a 4" cylinder helpful. Keep us up to date on progress.

Rgds

Noel


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## Chris Knight (6 Aug 2004)

Dave,

How frustrating!! I have never done any sheet metal work - it looks like another thing one could spend ages studying/practising before getting it right. The sort of pipe/cone union you are making looks so simple in a blow moulded plastic fitting but making one that size in metal illustrates the fact that someone has done a lot of thinking/hard work to make the plastic jobbie look simple.

Good luck in finishing it before next year!


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## johnelliott (6 Aug 2004)

Dave, excellent, how soon before you are ready to market them? I for one am definitely interested
John


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## Bean (6 Aug 2004)

DaveL Facinating I look forward to hearing how well it works. 
I work with a few fabricators who make very simular mistakes and they do metal bashing for a living, so dont worry :wink: 


Bean


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## ike (6 Aug 2004)

> it looks like another thing one could spend ages studying/practising before getting it right.



Too right - it took James Dyson around 2500 prototypes to get it right. Not that any of us will be worth £750 mil by the end of it !.


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## Alf (6 Aug 2004)

Dave,

D'oh! Never mind; personally I think you're brave to tackle making it at all - I'd be far too chicken. It's looking very good anyway.  

Cheers, Alf


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## Rattie (6 Aug 2004)

I don't know how the instructions suggest forming the transition between inlet pipe and cone, but I've found the Isopon (or similar) glass fibre filler very good for that kind of stuff. The stuff I mean is a gunge of short fibres in resin, rather than sheet matting and a bottle of resin. You just gaffer tape over the inside of the join, to form a rough mold, then apply the gunge to the outside, nice and thick.

The resin sticks to most things pretty well, but if a test doesn't adhere too well, you can put release agent (e.g. silicone spray or petroleum gel) on the faces you're applying it to , then crack it off once set. Once you've cleaned release agent off the metal, pipe and filler section you can epoxy them together for a really strong bond.

Hope that helps someone.

Martyn


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## Bean (6 Aug 2004)

Good Idea Rattie  

Bean


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

Noely":171691sm said:


> What blower are you going to use?



I am going to try the 1HP motor and fan from the Nutool dust collector that I have been using. I am not sure that its going to have enough suck when mounted on the cyclone so I may be looking around for something a bit meatier :shock:


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

johnelliott":2n6y1mhq said:


> Dave, excellent, how soon before you are ready to market them? I for one am definitely interested
> John



What even with a 2 year production time


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

Alf":3q66o7ll said:


> personally I think you're brave to tackle making it at all - I'd be far too chicken.



Brave, oh no fool hardy is a better description I think :roll:


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

Rattie,

Thanks for that idea, I may well use it.


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## Bean (7 Aug 2004)

DaveL You cannot rush quality :wink: 


Bean


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

Hi Bean,

I have made good progress today. 

IT WORKS

not that I am surprised or anything :shock: 

Still got a couple of things to sort out but it is definitely a goer  

See you tomorrow 8)


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## DaveL (7 Aug 2004)

OK then I have spent a good part of today working on the cyclone.
First I cut a new hole.




Then I had to square up the mis-cut one in the cylinder.




And even if I do say so my self I was pleased with the fit.




I then took Ratties advice to seal the join.




So on to the wall with the rest of it.




Well I just dropped the blower on the top, joined the dust bin and ran it up, bit of a disappointment the dust did appear in the hose to the dust bin but just as must came out the top.  Then I remembered that I hadn't sealed the top of the dust bin to the lid. So a ring of draft excluder foam and try it again.




The dust now all goes down the tube into the bin.
*IT WORKS* well I had to calm the dog down, I suppose I did shout quiet loudly when it did what I wanted  




There is one small thing I need to do, The Nutool blower has a NVR mounted on the motor, really good for such a cheap DC and useful when its on a floor stand but a pian in the bum when the switch is 7'6" up at the back of the unit :shock:


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## Woodythepecker (8 Aug 2004)

Dave, what a excellent job you have made of it, real professional.

I have heard the cyclone mentioned before but what makes it so special? How does it differ from other extractors?

If you don't mind me asking but how much did it cost to make?

Well done.

Cheers

Woody


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## Chris Knight (8 Aug 2004)

Dave,

Congratulations! It looks the business there in the corner of your workshop. I shall be very interested to hear in due course how much fine dust "goes the wrong way" and ends up in the felt bag. 

Emptying the dustbin will be a lot easier than the hassle associated with plastic bags.


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## Alf (8 Aug 2004)

Dave,

Vunderbar!  Where do we place our orders...? :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## DaveL (8 Aug 2004)

Alf":23oy0qoc said:


> Dave,
> 
> Vunderbar!  Where do we place our orders...? :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Come on now Alf, how many of your tools have dust collection fittings that don't involve the use of a net to catch the gossamer shavings as they float of across the workshop :shock: :wink:


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## DaveL (8 Aug 2004)

Hi Woody,

The idea is that the dust is separated from the air that has moved into the cylinder by centrifugal force. The air is made to spin round in the cylinder and the dust is flung against the side, and then gravity makes it drop down, eventually down into the dust bin. When I look at the hose the dust is still spinning as it goes down it, quite odd to see. The dust bin must be air tight or the flow of air back up the hose will carry the dust up the centre tube to the blower and out the exhaust.

There are a number of advantages:

The bin should be much easy to empty than the bag on the normal DC.
The dust is collected down stream of the blower so off cuts that get sucked up don't ding the fan and should fall undamaged into the bin.
The filter on the exhaust should have very little dust reaching it so the need to keep shaking the thing to get the suck back every time its used should go away.

I will be reporting back when the thing has seen some real work.


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## Woodythepecker (8 Aug 2004)

Dave, it sounds very good. I may even try to build one myself.

Many thanks

Woody


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## Bean (8 Aug 2004)

Dave but i saw you today :lol: 

Congratulations   

Bean


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## Anonymous (8 Aug 2004)

Nice one Dave

Interested to hear if there is a real improvement in performance over your original extractor


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## devonwoody (9 Aug 2004)

AT the woodworkforums.ubeat site ther is a very descriptive article on an homemade cyclone(Pentz cyclone).

Around twenty pics. and an easy reading article. 

Article just posted in last 24 hours.


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## Alf (9 Aug 2004)

devonwoody":18k0uaow said:


> AT the woodworkforums.ubeat site ther is a very descriptive article on an homemade cyclone(Pentz cyclone).


For the interested, a link. (I'm still waiting for the pics to download  , but it looks good.)

G'day*, Alf

*That's what comes of visiting an Aussie forum :roll: . Still, no worries, she'll be right.


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## DaveL (9 Aug 2004)

Alf,

Thanks for the link I did wonder were Devon had seen it. Nice cyclone build but the metal work would cause me problems unless all of the rolled bits came preformed. 

Do we have to call you Sheila now Alf :wink:


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## devonwoody (9 Aug 2004)

To Alf ,

May I call you Alf now?

The pictures at the aussie web site download on my computer immediately. (a few seconds) You neew a new computer?


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## DaveL (9 Aug 2004)

Devon,

You have to remember that Alfs computer is connected via damp string to the internet and its quite a long piece to reach that far down the map :wink:


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## Alf (9 Aug 2004)

devonwoody":2lv9d4cy said:


> May I call you Alf now?


What else? I'll accept "Your Highness" at a pinch mind... :wink: 



devonwoody":2lv9d4cy said:


> The pictures at the aussie web site download on my computer immediately. (a few seconds) You neew a new computer?


As Dave says, it's the damp string (frayed at that) that's the problem. Allegedly BT are getting broadband within range this very month, but even then apparently they have to check if it's really true at _our_ end. :roll: _And_ then I have to pursade The Ps That B that we "need" it.  

Cheers, Alf


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## DaveL (10 Aug 2004)

I have tried the cyclone with the planer and have found a problem, the pipe at the bottom of my cone is only 4", the design does call for a 6" one but when I started collecting the bits (long long ago) I could get any 6" flexible pipe. The problem is that the shavings rely on gravity to make the journey down to the bin and when the flow rate gets up ie planing a 6" board gravity just can't cope 

Well there are obviously two solutions to this, but as I can't find the knob to turn gravity up a bit :wink: I have had to buy some 6" flexible hose which Charnwood now stock. I am in the process of making 6" fittings for the cone and bin and will post an update once its all back together. :lol:


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## Chris Knight (10 Aug 2004)

Dave,

It looks from your pictures as though you may need to make a new adapter to the bottom of the cone for the larger diameter? Fairly straightforward I guess?


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## DaveL (10 Aug 2004)

Chris,

I had a length of 6" stainless flue that I used for the centre tube inside the cylinder. What was left over is now being put to use.


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## Bean (10 Aug 2004)

DaveL
Steady development and improvement, this will be some cyclone when you have finished Dave.

Apart from the minor problem with the volume does it pick up ok on other equipment ?

Bean


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## DaveL (11 Aug 2004)

Yet another update  

The new 6" hose came in a very large truck about 18 hours after I place the order on the phone.





The fitting for the top of the bin was easy




(H&S note ear defenders are required when using a jig saw to cut dustbin lids :twisted: )
The fitting on the bottom of the cone was trickier, take a length of 6" stainless flue and cut 1" tabs.




This was made harder by the selection of the wrong tool, ok then you choose:-




Well to my eye the compound snips looked the right choice. Well I fought with then and the tube for 10 minutes before going to get some coffee. Progress was as they say disappointing, I had not made one cut the stainless was twisting between the blades and just bending not cutting. I then started searching for any other metal cutting tools, even tried the jig saw, glad to still have all the bits attached in the right places, could not hold the tube still. :shock: I looked in the box of stuff acquired but not used and found what appeared to be a very tried pair of tin snips, the blades no longer closed fully. But they cut the tube like your mums best dress making scissors cut paper airplanes out  On close inspection I found the makers name




This is the maker that today is trading as Footprint, I don't know when they stopped using this name on tools. 
Alf any pointers I know its a bit outside your field.

The cyclone has gone back together but I have bodged the seal on the cone so its not usable. I will not be touching it until next week as I am off to Cropredy for the weekend, I hope it doesn't rain


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## Noel (11 Aug 2004)

Dave,

The 70's? Never liked FC but was a big JT fan. Glad to see Ian(was Ian, wasn't it?) is still on the road. Presume Cropredy is next door to Cropredy Bridge? Nice part of Oxfordshire.

Rgds

Noel

Oh, and good progress on the cyclone.


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## DaveL (11 Aug 2004)

Noely,

Ian is very much still on the road, trouble is is not one in the UK. Its getting harder to see Tull as they spend a lot of their time in the states.  
I mix for Lyckerty Splyt Ceilidh Band, and on a good night we are a bit like the instrumental stuff that Fairport do, mind you I do miss our whistle player on the tunes that FC do :shock:


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## Adam (12 Aug 2004)

Just a comment on the lower of the two pairs of snips you show - they are evil :twisted: . Have you slipped yet and caught a bit of flesh between the ends of the handles? It nips really badly, and I use them just infrequently enough that I forget that I swore (in blood) at the last use that'd I'd wear gloves next time.

Adam


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## Alf (12 Aug 2004)

Dave,

All the info I have is really based on planes*, but fwiw:

Thomas Ellin started to use the Trademark "Footprint" in 1913 for their planes.
No planes listed in 1937, but no info on whether the "Footprint" brand was used on other tools yet.
Bought by the Jewitt family in 1970 and changed to Footprint Tools.

So it could well be as early as 1913, but certainly no later than 1970.

BTW, "my, what a big hose you have, grandma" :wink: 

Cheers, Alf

*No, I'm _not_ fixated. There just isn't a book to _buy_ called "British Tin Snip Makers From 1700"  At least, I don't think so...


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## Bean (12 Aug 2004)

Alf your just not looking hard enough :wink: 


Bean


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## slemishwoodcrafts (15 Sep 2007)

what size ducting did you use for the cyclone? I have been advised on 6" ducts.


michael


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## DaveL (15 Sep 2007)

Michael,

I used 4" plastic soil pipe, if you look here you can see the home made blast gates and the pipe work in the rafters.


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## Digit (3 Aug 2008)

Yeah! Brings tears to you eyes doesn't it Adam?!

Roy.


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## big soft moose (4 Aug 2008)

DaveL":2nd9g23y said:


> (H&S note ear defenders are required when using a jig saw to cut dustbin lids :twisted: )
> 
> This was made harder by the selection of the wrong tool,



perhaps the moral of that tale is to use a plastic dustbin  (Unless i'm missing something as i must admit i havent read the whiole thread)


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