# Xcalibur/Harvey set up



## wcndave (17 Jul 2014)

I got my new excalibur today, looks like a solid piece of kit.

It comes with two wings and a black extension table.

I have the sliding table, which means i was hoping to get two wings plus extension on the right hand side.

However i notice that the wings only have holes on one side, and the extension has holes that are in a completely different position to both the table and the wings.

The extension table also has lips on the sides so it won't sit flush.

Any ideas as to how this fits together from those who have one?


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## Random Orbital Bob (17 Jul 2014)

I don't mean this to sound sarcastic, but did it come with a manual? Of course, we're blokes, we don't need manuals right? Except, sometimes they can actually be helpful. If you don't have one might be worth a try downloading one or calling the woodford folks. There must be one online for download somewhere.


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## wcndave (17 Jul 2014)

It does. However there's no mention of the extra table, and the sliding table manual makes no mention of how to use the removed wing... I will probably have to drill and tap in the end.


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## Steve Maskery (17 Jul 2014)

On most saws, and I think the X is no exception, you use a LH extension OR the sliding table, not both at the same time.
I don't have the ST, but I'm pretty sure that it replaces the LH extension.

HTH
Steve


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## wcndave (17 Jul 2014)

Sure, i was just hoping to add it to the right side to increase the range.

However still not sure how the black extension piece goes in, especially with that lip. Perhaps it's intended to allow a shim for "inevitable" sag...


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## owen (17 Jul 2014)

Phone the people you bought it from, and ask them.


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## Steve Maskery (17 Jul 2014)

Ah, I see what you mean.
Well yes, you will probably have to drill and tap. You might also want to investigate any issues there may be about balance, having that much more CI hanging over the RH side. You might find that supporting the rails with some auxiliary structure is a good idea (e.g. a leg).
No idea what the black thing is, mine doesn't have it.


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## wcndave (17 Jul 2014)

Ok. got it now.

The black outer extension (pressed steel) gets attached to the front and back rails. Makes sense now.

If I do attach the other cast iron table I will need some legs yes.

First impressions are very good indeed. Coming from a really bad saw set up wise this is so nice. Every setting has set screws or leveling screws or some easy to reach and easy to fix tight setting. Even the way you can adjust the front and back nylon heads so the the fence is minutely above the table just makes it glide side to side like air hockey.

Even the standard mitre gauge has slots cut and some set screws to take up slack, so I can skip the part of Steve's video where he hammers at his mitre....oh..... too late...

Looking very good so far. I come from a bad saw so it's even more exciting for me.

Tool free riving knife change, and two knives, one for through cuts and one for attaching the guard... seems everything is thought of.

I know you don't need anymore pictures of this saw, so I won't bother with that...

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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2014)

Hi Dave
Ooh it sounds like they have made some excellent improvements to already good-quality saw.
S


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Yes, although the riving knife tool free change does mean making zero clearance inserts either requires an extra hole, or that you remove the insert to change the knife. As you did this before anyway, you wouldn't notice.

The fence is now aluminium rather than plastic, which allows T track and short fence usage, however building a box over the top like many of your jigs do is a bit more complex now. (or at least different).


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

The saw - tables are not leveled yet, as usual that's a painstaking and boring job. As per any machine, the final tighten always shifts it, and i have managed to mash the threads on a bolt already.







The rip fence, aluminium t-track attachment, solid. very.






Adjustment top front and back on each side of the guide - easy.






Although the toe of the clamp does not engage with the centre of the rail, and there is some movement in the rail when clamping right now






A magnet keeps the handle up when you're moving it about






Dial indicator. No micro adjustment which I have on my other one and is pretty handy, however I am sure I can live without!






Back rail has nylon head so the whole thing glides over your table.


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2014)

wcndave":1kztirkb said:


> Although the toe of the clamp does not engage with the centre of the rail, and there is some movement in the rail when clamping right now
> [/attachment]



I think you can eliminate that by adjusting the screws on the front of the fence, can't you?

That does look like a very nice makeover of the saw. And it tilts away from the fence, I believe?

S


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Argh... i attached another 8 pics and after the 7th one it logged me out... how annoying, i was hardly inactive for a period...

If i move the fence down, then it hits the table. One could move the rail up, however there is a limit at the edge of table, and one of the bolt holes is a notch, not a hole. This makes assembly easier as you can hang one end whist doing the other. However any higher and the bolt will not engage.

I think it's ok. let's try this pictures again!


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

What tilts away from the fence?


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Riving locking pin in engaged mode






Disnegage






Insert knife






re-engage Pin






Secure


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

The mitre seems fairly decent, although I will mostly use the sliding table, it's nice to have this.






Officially known as "take out the slop, and also render 4 mins of workshop essentials unnessential mechanism" ;-)






Wheels are big, solid, smooth and lock easily.


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2014)

wcndave":3r4x84iw said:



> What tilts away from the fence?



The blade, of course! How many things on it do tilt?

S


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Leveling feet for the insert are nice, however as there is also a screw/nut at the back, and a hex bolt at the front, you have 6 points of contact. So any adjustment to one means not all points are touching, and it's rather fiddly. me-thinks a triangle might have been better, or just the four...

perhaps i take the front and back ones out.


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Steve Maskery":6n8h2sck said:


> wcndave":6n8h2sck said:
> 
> 
> > What tilts away from the fence?
> ...



](*,) 

The table slopes away based on setup, the rail, i put a pencil on top and it rolled off... loads of things, but yer, obvious.

Yes, it tilts away, hadn't thought about that...


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2014)

It makes ripping bevels safer, as there is nothing to get trapped between the fence and the angled blade.
Enjoy your new toy.
S


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Yer, It just hadn't occurred to me to even think about what the tilt was...

First I have to get it set up, always the frustrating part as you really want to get on and play with it, but can't cut corners...

Also it has a commando plug, so I need to get a caravan adaptor, Amazon said 4-12 days!

However I just got an email that it has been dispatched... no weekend playing with the toys though :-(


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## wcndave (18 Jul 2014)

Also cannot see the word Excalibur anywhere on there. It always was a rebadged machine, however the logo was fairly distinctive.


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## wcndave (19 Jul 2014)

Having spent a day setting up, worth a few thoughts, and perhaps even a question.

Still very excited, and impressed, really solid kit. The sliding table is massive, true and very smooth, so there are many good things.

However as always there are some bad as well. I would rate the saw 4.5, and here's where it loses the 0.5

The manual. I must admit i have yet to fine a very good one, and this one is not too bad, but it's still not good.

I read them both, ts and sliding table before starting. 

The sliding one said to remove the left wing, so i knew i could leave that out, but that was it, so i started on the saw proper, intention to get it right before i started attachments.

The rails as usual were a pain. What we really need is auxiliary rail with set screws holding the main one above it. One has to hold the nut at the back, turn at the front, all the while trying to keep it level. As the fence rides on front and back, this needs to be fairly good.

It also holds the far right table, so you have to hold that in place too!

Bolts are 13mm bar 3 that are 9/16 for some reason. On the back rail you actually cannot get a spanner in to hold front whilst tighten back, and two go into main body of saw and cannot be accessed at all! If you do not have a socket set you can't get in there. This adds to the whole holding whilst tightening problem. Need four hands. Some of the bolts are allen keys, for example the top is bolted with them. This would have been far better for the back rail too.

The manual explains how to set the tape to the zero point by sliding fence against blade. However this is before the section on how to install blade, so you go out of sequence.

Got to sliding table, and found that it's easy to get upside down.

Then the attaching holes are in two sets, but at different heights.. Trial and error there to get the right one. Manual shows only one set.

Clearly when installing, the front rail wont fit anymore, but it's ok, there are offset holes clearly designed for this.

Shame i'd spent two hours getting that all straight though!

Then i see the rail, which is attched to a bar that the fence actually slides on still won't fit. The bar sticks out At both ends, and the left side still obstructs the sliding table.

However i see some bolts attaching the bar to rail, and some extra holes in rail.

Take it all apart and no extra holes in bar, and the rail still wouldn't fit.

This means drill and tap new holes (beyond most in terms of tools/skils perhaps), or cut off the left end of bar. That seems both extreme, a shame, and again, I am not sure everyone has a large angle grinder...

I have done nothing for now and will talk to woodford.

The kit as i said seems really great, and once set up, will be fantastic. The table and mitre on the sliding table are great.

However some of the shine has been taken off by a few setup issues/manual issues that seemingly could be easily avoided.

Back to it tomorrow, hope to actually use it within a week of getting it!


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## wcndave (19 Jul 2014)

Oh and as I've had to move the rail the tape will no longer be right. The adhesive had taken hold so I'll need to get a new sticky tape strip :-(

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## Myfordman (20 Jul 2014)

It seems like the saw has mutated from the original design tha Steve, I and others have had for several years. No such set up problems or need to move holes etc.
I would be very surprised indeed if the bolts are mixed metric and imperial. 
9/16'' is of course very close to 14mm so the confusion could well indicate gaps in the op's spanner set.


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## inaspin (20 Jul 2014)

Good luck with your new saw, it will be worth the effort of setting it up properly. However I must agree with you about instruction manuals, the quality of some are atrocious at best, and downright illegible at the worst. Problems with translation with a bit of common sense you can work out for yourself, but when for instance you get fit fig E to fig F as in diagram and the diagram is just a black blob I find really annoying. Do the marketing departments of these companies not realise the frustration with there product this causes.

All I ask for is to be able to take something out of the box, put it together and enjoy using it. Which on two recent purchases has proved almost impossible, sorry didn't intend to highjack your thread it just hit a nerve.

Berns


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## Zeddedhed (20 Jul 2014)

This looks like the saw I want!!
Is this from Xcalibur? I can't seem to find any info giving detailed specs of their saws.
Would you be so kind as to let me know where you got this from, the model number and if it's not being too cheeky how much it was?
I'd be very grateful.


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## wcndave (20 Jul 2014)

From here there are two links

http://***********************/accessories.html

The links are not obvious, click on saw name.

One is basic and one had sliding plus router table.

I got basic plus sliding without router.

Prices are exclusive of vat

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## wcndave (21 Jul 2014)

Myfordman":1462d5iw said:


> It seems like the saw has mutated from the original design tha Steve, I and others have had for several years. No such set up problems or need to move holes etc.
> I would be very surprised indeed if the bolts are mixed metric and imperial.
> 9/16'' is of course very close to 14mm so the confusion could well indicate gaps in the op's spanner set.



It may be 14mm, however the point is that a couple radomly seem to be a different size.

The reason the same setup issue may not have been encountered is that Steve and many others do not have the sliding table.


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## Bluekingfisher (21 Jul 2014)

What I believe you have is the Laguna TS from the platinum series range.

http://www.lagunatools.com/tablesaws/ta ... platinumlt

There are two models, one with the normal trunnion under carriage or, as with the one I have with the heavy dovetail ways.

You will find it an excellent saw.

On another point, it is not the same saw as the one mentioned by an earlier poster on this thread. This saw is a heavier better made saw than the original WWM saw IMHO. Heavier more robust fence, heavier trunnions, heavier turn handles.

Oops......here is the manual.  

https://system.netsuite.com/core/media/ ... id=1EphzXr


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## wcndave (21 Jul 2014)

Yes that's the one.

A couple of differences however in this version.

The fence is aluminium and can only be used on right side (without taking the face off and moving to other side).
Doesn't bother me about the side, and I don't really know that the aluminium makes a difference.

Guard is not as shown. the one shown has a nice parallel rise and anti-kickback teeth things at the back.
The one I have has dust collection on top (may never use), so it would have been nicer to have the pictured one.

The pictured one has a very large right side table.
I was hoping to take the left wing, and add to right wing + extension table (the black part) to get something similar in size to that shown in your Laguna picture.
I can do this, however with custom Mods, including making some legs, and boring and tapping some holes.
Given the fence bar doesn't go that far anyway, I will probably just forget it, seems a waste of a cast iron table!

I could have got the router table extension and removed the router to achieve what I intended, however it's really not a big deal and I tend to use track saw anyway for larger sheets.

I talked to Berniesquash and he said that he did have to hack the end off his fence bar when fitting sliding table, so I feel a little better that I am not about to make some hideous mistake!


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## wcndave (22 Jul 2014)

I got confirmation from Roy that you have to cut off the end of the rail. Angle grinder made quick work of that.

Then found I need new reliefs cut in the rail for the mitre slots. Definitely could be a challenge without angle grinder.

Of course now the bar Is shifted to the right so I cut off my tape prematurely..

I left the far right supporting table slightly lower than the main table, perhaps 0.5mm.

The alternate (to the pictures from web site) guard won't meet Steve's approval. The one in picture has a parallelogram that rises and falls one one or both sides. This one is fixed so at full height there's plenty of space for fingers.







I don't think the extraction on top is worth this compromise.

Everything else very good indeed.



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## wcndave (23 Jul 2014)

My adapter from commando to euro plug arrived today, so first time switched on.

Did not like using 4 chained 16A extension leads, so had to get out a site one.

Pretty quiet, very smooth. I cut my first piece and thought perhaps I'd left the blade lowered all the way, as there was no resistance!


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## Myfordman (31 Aug 2014)

Dave, Would you say that you are now happy with the new style Xcalibur saw?

I've got one of the older ones and very pleased with it. A mate is thinking of getting one and I want to make sure I give appropriate advice given the new model. I doubt that he will have room for the sliding table (same here).
I know the blade tilts the other way but I can switch my fence to the other side of the blade easily it that becomes an issue.
It looked from your write up that most of the issues you had were related to the slider and the manual? would that be a fair summary?

Cheers

MM


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## Bluekingfisher (1 Sep 2014)

Myfordman":1u4wf9kk said:


> Dave, Would you say that you are now happy with the new style Xcalibur saw?
> 
> I've got one of the older ones and very pleased with it. A mate is thinking of getting one and I want to make sure I give appropriate advice given the new model. I doubt that he will have room for the sliding table (same here).
> I know the blade tilts the other way but I can switch my fence to the other side of the blade easily it that becomes an issue.
> ...



With respect to the saw you have, there are no comparisons between the two saws. The new one, as featured here is a better saw all round, heavier cabinet, polished tables, heavy and larger steel chromed wheels as opopsed to cast ali on the older version. Heavier and more substanitail fence and rails (larger box sections on both). I have seen both saws and happy to state the newer saw is even a betetr looking saw. Having spoken to Roy at WW machinery (distributor) he is also convinced the new saw is greatly superior. 

A buddy of mine has recnetly chopped in the older version for the newer version, for the reasons I highlighted.

I don't think there was anything wrong with the original saw, just the newer one is a heavier and beefier saw. It is usual that on newer models there are on or two compromises but if there are, I can't see any.

You can be confident to recommend this saw to your mate without regret.

BTW - I have no connection or financial interest in the saw or the chap who sells them.

David


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## Myfordman (1 Sep 2014)

Thank you David,

That does put my mind at rest. It would not be the first time that a new version of a machine to hit the market was a poorer item compared to the original.

I'm pretty certain mine, circa 2005, has steel/CI handwheels. From other references the new one looks more like a laguna clone rather the earlier which I think was knock off of a Delta design. I'm still very happy with it whatever it's parentage.

Have they kept the interchangeable arbour adaptor to allow mounting of Dado blades??

Cheers

MM


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## wcndave (2 Sep 2014)

Hi. I am very happy. The sliding table is fine, it's really just the manual that could use work.

The crown guard is not as nice as the one pictured on the website.

I also notice that blade changing is a knuckle bruising experience. The spanner to hold the spindle has a nice kink in it. The one you have to turn next to the blade is straight and about as long as the radius of the blade. Ie about 6"too short.

The arbor looks plenty long for dado.

Of course there's the tedious business of fettling, however the saw itself is great.

I don't have the original to compare, but I spent enough time with Steve on workshop essentials that I think it's a very decent upgrade.

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## r0nmlt (2 Sep 2014)

I have bought the same exact machine with sliding table and router table. I am in the process of putting it together. Am I right in assuming that the cast iron wings won't be used and instead the ST and RT are installed?


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## wcndave (2 Sep 2014)

From this picture

http://***********************/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/w/hw110wse.jpg

That certainly looks to be the case.

It does seem a shame that one can't extend the table... however you'd possibly need to build extra support legs, and the fence doesn't go that far anyway.


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## wcndave (2 Sep 2014)

A few things to note if you have the same model with ST. I may have noted them above, but perhaps in a disjointed way.

The front and back rails can be mounted in two positions.

If you mount in the "intended" position, you will need to cut off about 12" from the left side to fit the ST.
If you mount one hole along to the right, you still need to cut off only the front rail (box only not the actual rail).

The benefit of the latter is that you get more rail to the right. The downside is that then the gaps for the mitre slots won't line up and you will also need to make new cut outs for this.

As another member suggested, i cut off the end then remounted the plastic cap.

DO NOT stick on the tape until you are completely finished!

The mark for the tape can be fitted to right or left side. choose which side BEFORE you cut and stick the tape on!

Get the saw blade parallel to mitre slots before you fit the sliding table.

For me the router table is just in the wrong place, you can't stand in front of it. maybe one can put it the other way round from the picture i posted above, however as I don't have this I can't comment on the router setup.

I made my sliding table a hair above the main table so that boards on the sliding table don't catch on the main table.

Getting the sliding table parallel and square, and adjusting the legs is awkward, so you really don't want to have to move this afterwards. Also the mobile base is out when you have the TS/RT.

If I think of anything else I will add it. Here's some more photos, showing the decent sliding table capacity.


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## wcndave (2 Sep 2014)

One thing that I don't quite get is the telescopic sliding table fence.

It extends about 30cm, this certainly could have been more, my Scheppach extended by 60cm odd...

However the main thing is the tape system. You can adjust the tape wherever, it's clearly designed to be moved about as it's not stuck down, rather has a locking wheel.

And there are two rows of numbers. If you put the tape so the far right of the stop is on the actual number (ie the tape is exactly relative to the blade), then I would expect that when you move the stop to the extension, and then move out the extension, the pointer on the lower half of the tape would show you the extended measurement. It looks like it ought to do this, but I can't see that it does.

The tape does not go on to the extension bar, so you don't know where you are at (the lack of pointer or some way to set stop accurately is a bit of a pain).
However if you did measure accurately, the stop will be at about 77cm, and the pointer on the secondary scale is at 87cm.

The secondary pointer is not movable, in fact that part of the scale starts at 80cm. I could move the stop out to 80 on the extension (with manual measuring or some jig), and then move the tape so the pointer is on 80cm, and then move out the extending arm. However it seems like an awful lot of faffing, and i have to spend ages setting the tape back again for normal cuts...







Any thoughts on this most welcome!

A final note on the sliding table.

I love having a ST, doing kitchen cabinet sides, I cannot imagine doing them on a sled of some sort.

However the mitre is secured in four different places, so it's rock solid, but it also is about 7cm from blade.

So if you want to rip a long board with more than 7cm on left side, you need to remove the ST mitre.

That means setting it to square again, and using the five cut method and adjusting takes time, and uses up a lot of boards!

I find myself now cutting with bandsaw or track saw, down to a few mm, and doing final rip on TS.

It's just a shame there's no way to remove mitre without losing settings.

It's not a deal breaker, and I still rather have the ST than not, but you need to occasionally plan around it.

The reason I say long board, is that you can pull the table back 48" which means any ripping of boards under 48" can be done without obstruction.


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## Myfordman (2 Sep 2014)

wcndave":p9x1r8au said:


> Hi. I am very happy. The arbour looks plenty long for dado.



Thanks Dave, 
To take a full dado set, there should be about 3/4" of thread projecting through the nut when a std blade is fitted.

The MK1 had a scheme to remove the end of the arbor by unscrewing it and fitting a longer one that was sold separately.
in this way they got round the CE marking issue allowing the saw to be marked but the dado adaptor and blade set were unmarked.

Maybe they have the same scheme? is your saw CE marked?

Cheers
MM


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## Bluekingfisher (2 Sep 2014)

No problem at all, my saw is similar but not the one in question. I have the Laguna PS saw with the dovetail trunnion set up, which is a burden as it requires some effort to raise the blade.

However, the saw posted is very similar to mine with a couple of exceptions, being the door to the motor being on the left (mine on the right), the trunnions and a quick release riving knife function on the posters saw. Mine is operated by a 17mm spanner. No big deal but the quick release is a nice touch. Theother difference is the arbour on Dave's saw is 3omm, where as mine is 5/8". They both accept dado blades (which I am a big fan of).

I do not have the ST, I honestly prefer the solid cast wings, however the ST has some benefits. I also like the fact the starter swith extends with the ST, preventing the need to duck under the table to turn it on/off if the starter was affixed to the cabinet like mine. 

I can't offer assistance on the measuring set up on the mitre gauge but p[ossibly the two different settings are relevant to where the fence of the mitre is located. perhaps one scale is for setting the fence right up to the blade and the other when set back the 7cmm you mentioned. Or, is it to do with making angled cuts, which of course alters the distance from piece to the blade when cutting???

With regards to the cast wings. If you were to use the left cast wing on the right you would be placing a heck of a lot of weight and on the right side of the saw, particularly the fence rails. On my saw I was provided with a melamine covered insert with a metal frame to sit between the two rails providing me with a greater surface working area.

When setting the tables and wings, here is what I do. Align the table and wing as close as you can without getting to precise (or stressed) Tighten them as you would normally. Don't go crazy or you will crack the cast or strip a thread. A snug tighten is enough so easily slackened off without applying force which knocks your settings off. Now, keep one of the bolts as is ( I work from left to right) so I keep the bolt on the left snug, then slacken the other 3 bolts with a slight turn, just enough to take the pressure off. The wing should still remain in situ without falling out of it original position. If you have a dead blow hammer or rubber mallet use that to tap the far side of the wing (opposite end from the snug bolt) just where it meets the main table. The wing should have dropped a tad. If so snug this bolt, only snug, do not heave on it. Then go to the first snugged bolt and back if off a tad and tap here too. If it drops a fraction tighten then snug it again. If the wing and table is level, re snug the two middle bolts. From here, you can set fully in place by tightening the bolts for a permanent fix. It may be an idea to tighten alternative bolts a little at a time until you are satisfied.

I should have mentioned beforehand to check the plane of the table and the wings. If they are not on an even plane you can shim with brass shims, which can be purchased from model and craft shops in thin metal plates in various thicknesses. You could also use the metal from a soft drinks can but it would have to be way off as the drinks can is relatively thick in comparison to the brass shims.

The blade gaurd on mine too showed the dual lift blade gaurd although the one with the saw is the same as yours. It isn't a problem for me as I use a shark boom gaurd


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## wcndave (2 Sep 2014)

Actually although the starter switch is brought forward under the ST, it does not move with it. This means that when cutting a large piece, you have to reach fairly far under, so not ideal. However I can imagine if it moved that cable management could become an issue.

The cab opens on left I guess cos the blade tilts to the left.

I measured the arbor, looks like you've got about 1/2" realistically, although you may not need the flange bolt?






Interesting what happened to my zero clearance insert. I think the particles from chip board have effectively sandblasted it leaving a textured finish where the harder parts of the wood have not been worn away.

This is with only a few weeks use mind.


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## Myfordman (3 Sep 2014)

Thanks Dave. Should be ok for most of a dado set then. 
Fascinating photo of the insert. I think it must illustration differential hardness, rather like the effect of over enthusiastic pressure washing wooden garden furniture.
DAMHIKT!


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## DennisCA (3 Sep 2014)

Steve Maskery":3qebkq2k said:


> It makes ripping bevels safer, as there is nothing to get trapped between the fence and the angled blade.
> Enjoy your new toy.



Is that really such a big deal when using the proper methods and equipment (riving knife, low & short rip fence, blade guard)? Seems to be in america that left tilt is a big thing because they often lack one or all of these features on their saws, but most modern euro saws are AFAIK still right tilt. This guy makes a pretty convincing argument that right tilt saws are fine to cut bevels on, also has speciality jigs:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... -left-tilt


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## wcndave (3 Sep 2014)

I checked out the CE mark, as per a request, and there is one there.

You'll note that there is no Xcaliber badging anywhere, and as it was always rebadged from a clone, perhaps we should not be calling it that anymore.

It is made by Harvey, which is a site I have visited many times when looking up the model number in search engines.

I had rather hoped that when I removed the left table, I would end up with something like this

http://www.harveymachinery.com/prod...tId=f536747f-960c-46fb-8383-bb74d6ddf144.html

I.e. a really long support area. However I guess they make various customisations / alterations for different resellers, as my fence was never that long.

The Laguna series in the US seem to have the longer fences, perhaps that's just a sign of the extra space they tend to have.

One thing I note in the pictures on the Harvey site is that the fence and crown guard are the actual versions i got, rather than the one on woodford site.

Looking at complete range, http://www.harveymachinery.com/prod...ontProductsCategory_show01-1298364098944.html

It looks like the pictures on woodford are for the 110LG, rather than the 110LGE. Perhaps the E stands for Europe...


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## Bluekingfisher (3 Sep 2014)

It is interesting to note the 30mm extended arbor for dado stacks supplied on your saw. Ironically the dado set is most used in the US where the standard arbor circumference is 5/8". Most dado sets extend out, or cut up to 7/8" in width, or perhaps a tad over, so I am not sure therefore if you could load a full dado stack onto the available arbor shown in the photograph? That said, you may be able to load chippers up to say 3/4", which is as much as you would usually need.

Still on the dado aspect. In general the use of a stacked dados is not encouraged in Europe or at least the UK, therefore it is difficult to purchase dado stacks in our woodworking outlets. And, if they can be found they tend to be of the 5/8" version which of course is no good for a Euro saw arbor. Makes me wonder then why an extended 30mm arbor is installed when obtaining a 30mm dado set is quite difficult??

I hate to sound a jobs worth but I would not recommend using soft wood as a throat insert plate, unless you attach a couple of braces along the length underneath. The likelihood of it flexing, and to my cost, breaking when passing stock over it is quite high. Plywood inserts with the cross grain is a far safer option IMHO. 

David


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## wcndave (3 Sep 2014)

Woodford who sell the Harvey formerly known as Xcalibur also sell the dado stack to go with it.

http://***********************/catalog/ ... tegory/68/

I am really tempted by it, as when I watch videos on YT there are sets of tasks that take seconds, which take me a long time with a router or other technique. 
Eg to cut out say this:





Is easy with dado stack and a sacrificial mitre fence.

With a router you have to build all kinds of supporting jigs etc, and for one piece it seems a waste of time.

However on the other hand, I hear lots of bad things about dados and that one reason US has so many more accidents is due to their widespread use.

So in two minds really... however the point is that the stack should fit the saw.


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## Myfordman (3 Sep 2014)

I'm a regular user of Dado sets on my original Xcalibur and RAS and that is my choice but I have to say, making something of the relative dimensions shown in your sketch would be particularly dodgy and would almost certainly need some sort of jig. Making it in a much longer and wider board and then cutting it to length and width or making several at a time from a larger board would be safer.

MM


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## Bluekingfisher (4 Sep 2014)

I would tend to agree with Myfordman, using a dado has its hazards and must be given the utmost respect. ZCI are a must when working with dado stacks. You cannot of course use a conventional blade gaurd when using a dado sets. Although not an issue for me as I use and overhead boom gaurd, even this can get in the way when working close to the fence. The up side is of course the stack is never usually raised more than 13mm or so so using the appropriate push stick keeps the valuables away from the blades

If you are considering purchasing a dad stack I would look at the reviews on Amazon for the Woodford dado stack, they are not to complimentary. I have never seen those particular blades although I would guess made somewhere in the Pacific rim?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/8-inch-Stacked- ... dado+blade

I have several sets, Forrest and Freud being themain brands. They are not cheap £250 - £300 a set but the quality of the tools and resulting cuts are excellent. I also figure my fingers and hands are worth way more than a couple of hundred quid.

David


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## wcndave (4 Sep 2014)

Interesting. The picture i posted was an example of something made by Steve Ramsey last week, and i would feel far more comfortable about that (with table sled) than a dado for shelf housing where i pass a large piece over an unseen blade.

Shelving i can do quickly and easily with router. It's the nibbling away which I would use it for, which is far quicker with 3/4" instead if 1/8" thickness.

My main YT subscriptions are wood whisperer and steve (wwmm), and they are both constantly using dado stacks. However I am not sure I'll go there for £300.


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## r0nmlt (10 Sep 2014)

I have finally managed to put together my Excalibur HW110WSE. I had received my table saw with Dave back in July, but due to work commitments and family it was sitting in the pallet for quite some time. Dave's post was very informative over what I would be expecting to face when I would have started putting the machine together. To be honest his post was more informative that the 3 manuals I got.

The only difference between Dave's machine, and mine, is the router table, which is also a very sturdy built like the rest of the machine. I was very pleased with the quality and built of the machine in general. It feels robust and well engineered. Dave did a very good roundup of the positives and negatives I will be only highlighting the different route I took for information and for feedback.

The manual of the router table states you can mount the router table directly to the main machine as well as on the side of the right hand table. This set me thinking into actually using both wings, one on each side and mounting the routing table further right and the sliding table further left. To do this I had to engage the expertise of a friend of mine to drill and tap into the cast iron M8x1.25 threads.

Having done that I mounted the wings onto the main table and then the router table and the sliding table went smoothly on either side of them. 

With this kind of setup the rear rail went on effortlessly as the rail was designed for the table with the side tables only. Setting the rear rail up when replacing one or both of the side tables with another part will result in mismatched holes and new holes needing to be drilled. 

The length of the rear rail, in the format I used, started shy from the sliding table onto half of the router table. This is more than enough as with router installed the fence still cannot go any further.

The front rail was a tad more laborious. I first dismantled the rail angle bracket from the box rail and installed the bracket to the machine and side wings. Again this went on effortlessly without the need of drilling any new holes or cutting it. The box rail was a little too long just like in Dave's case, but in my case I only had to remove about 2 ½ - 3" at most. The final length of the front rail again extends from the sliding table onto half of the router table.

This is where I left the build yesterday night. All table surfaces are flush except the sliding table which is a couple of mm higher. Tonight I will put on the fence and saw and align those two.

My only concern with the route I've taken, is the increased distance between the saw and the sliding table. For smaller pieces I think I will have to employ the standard mitre as the mitre of the sliding table is too far off.

One last thing I have also found the same 2 odd 9/16" screws. I have presumed these go on the front of the machine and the other 4, 13mm screws, would then go to affix the rail to the wings. This keeps "symmetry"!

I will update again as soon as the final bits are in place and the alignment is all done.

Ron.


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## wcndave (10 Sep 2014)

Sounds good.

I did think of tapping into left wing however had 3 problems with it:

1. tapping those holes
2. the increased distance
3. extra legs required

I can of course still do this later

I would suggest you make a table sled for smaller pieces, much more accurate and easier / safer too.

One difference I had from what you put above, was that I did not need to drill / cut the back rail when i removed the left fence.

I am also surprised you had to cut the front box. If you have the left wing on, I am not sure you need to do this. I also took off a couple of inches, however I also moved the rail to the right slightly, again without drilling new holes in rail, as those there do fit further along.

In any case as long as you get it all flat and sturdy, sounds like there's more than one way to do it ;-)


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## r0nmlt (10 Sep 2014)

If you decide on putting back on the left side table in between the machine body and the sliding table, you don't need extra legs as the sliding table already has supporting legs. If on the other hand you intend using the left hand wing table on the right, you will need legs. I didn't put on any legs as the router table has already a leg and therefore at both extremities I have legs.

The back rail needs no cutting, but without the left table it would have had to move right and it would have matched only with 2 holes and would have had to be held only on 2 bolts if I remember correctly. It is now holding up on 4 (2 on the wings and 2 on the main machine).

I installed the front rail without moving it right. This I did to avoid drilling new holes (as it would have matched only with a couple of holes) and to avoid cutting reliefs for the T-Slots. TBH I still have to cut reliefs for T-Slots of the router table as there is a mismatch there. 

I had to cut the box rail as I didn't move the rail right.

I agree there is more than one way to set things up which sometimes got me a bit confusing and worrying as I didn't want to go ahead to do something and ending up messing something else. This also irked me up a bit as I bought a complete package and didn't expect to have to stay deciding on which setup is best for me. I also was sold the mobile base which is useless when you have the ST and the RT. Anyway what's done is done and I tend to prefer to look at the way forward rather than contemplate the decisions past.

This is also the reason for this post. There are many experienced people on here that can smell danger a mile away and they might be able to highlight any wrongdoing from my end if any. 

I will try and get some good lighting tonight and post a photo.


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## Wizard9999 (22 Sep 2014)

r0nmlt":cz8mkfgl said:


> I will try and get some good lighting tonight and post a photo.



Ron

Did you ever get around to those pictures? I'm very interested in this saw and would be keen to see pictures of yours.



More generally I wondered if there is anyone on UKW has one of the new versions and is based a bit further south than Stockport? I'm close to Basingstoke and would be keen to see one in the flesh, without the necessity to travel quiet so far.

Terry.


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## wcndave (22 Sep 2014)

I'm definitely further south, although Italy might be a tad too far south...


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## wcndave (22 Sep 2014)

I now have mine connected to a dedicated 16A plug, rather than an extension lead from building site power supply. It starts quicker and with less groan, so definitely an improvement.

It may be worth installing it on a rubber mat to absorb some vibration noise - it's pretty hard to move once tables are installed, and almost impossible with the sliding table - unless you're happy to realign everything. So try and get it in the final position first.

If you have no sliding table / router, you can use the wheel base of course.


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## Wizard9999 (22 Sep 2014)

wcndave":18xnfpjl said:


> I'm definitely further south, although Italy might be a tad too far south...



Yes, but given the autumn chill in the air this morning as i headed to work maybe I could be tempted :lol:


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## wcndave (22 Sep 2014)

It's 1,900m, so getting pretty cold here too! 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## r0nmlt (22 Sep 2014)

I took the pictures but never got round to post them. Got some comments to make on my setup to do too now that I have used the machine for some time. Too late for all this now today. 

Oh and please don't complain about the weather. Tomorrow is going to be 32 degrees Celsius and am working in that heat!!!!


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## wcndave (2 Nov 2014)

Any news? 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## memzey (23 Dec 2014)

It would be great to hear how you guys are getting on with these saws now that you have been living with them for a few months


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## wcndave (27 Dec 2014)

memzey":2qqs2rzt said:


> It would be great to hear how you guys are getting on with these saws now that you have been living with them for a few months



Is there anything specifically you'd like to know?

Apart from the usual setup fiddling, the saw in use is a real pleasure.

I got some Axcaliber contract saw blades (Rip, general purpose and fine laminate cutting), however they turned out to be very poor compared to the blade that came with the machine.

The tool-less quick change between the two supplied riving knives is excellent, one is for partial through cuts and is the same level as the blade. This means i never have an excuse for not having the guard in place for normal cuts, whereas on my old TS I would leave it off most of the time due to the hassle of fitting it.

It's got some power, I have mine on separate 16A circuit, and it needs it. I had a few outages when it was connected to shared building site power.

It's very smooth, the included mitre is very good for a stock one, with mechanisms to take out any slop etc.

I find the sliding table very good indeed for all kinds of jobs, especially for sheet goods. It did take me quite a while to get the mitre dialled in to 90 deg and therefore I tend to leave it there as although the mitre is adjustable it's a pain to get it back to exact 90. I cut a lot of boards down to rather smaller ones using the 5 edge method, so decided to fix it there.

However then if you want to rip a wide board that is longer than the distance you can pull the table back (about 5 feet), the mitre gets in the way.

For these rather than go through the hassle of setting up the fence again i tend to get close with bandsaw or track saw and then finish on TS.

These cases are pretty rare though, and I am not sure there's much one could do, other than have some kind of "return to a fixed position" stop included.

The telescopic part of the sliding table is fairly useless, offering about 15cm extra reach. My old table saw offered about 2m max length, here I only get about 80cm, so that could have been better. Again, rare that it's needed anyway.

Overall very good, I am very happy with it, once it's been set up. I built some outfeed tables, and it's now definitely the centre of my shop.


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## ScouseKev (27 Dec 2014)

This saw was also for sale for a while in the Uk by Lyndhurst woodworking, it was badged as "Deft"

They had two models with different rise and fall mechanisms for the blade. The cheaper one was a swing trunnion and the better one was a really solid dovetail.

The dovetail one was also called the "gold top" due to the higher quality aged cast iron top.

Ive had one for the last 5 years and it's been flawless. powerful 4hp motor and all solidly built.


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## wcndave (1 Jan 2015)

Currently on sale in US as Baileigh


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## Harbo (1 Jan 2015)

I'm surprised nobody sells them over here?

Rod


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## wcndave (1 Jan 2015)

If you mean the uk, they are sold by woodford.

I believe there were links in earlier posts.

http://woodfordtooling.com/accessories/ ... ge-30.html


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## Harbo (5 Jan 2015)

Sorry I hadn't realised that the new type Xcalibers were the same as the Defts 
When I bought my DEFT a few years ago, the Xcaliber was definitely different.

Rod


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## wcndave (5 Jan 2015)

However they now don't come badged as Xcalibur. There is no badging at all.

Looking for the product number, these seem to originate in China as "Harvey"


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## memzey (15 Feb 2015)

Ron - it would be really good to see some pictures of your router table setup. Particularly whether it's possible to line the fence up with its back to the blade rather than facing it as the pictures show.


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## MBcarpentry (16 Dec 2015)

Hi wcndave 
I am looking to buy this cabinet saw from Woodford but can seem to get the exact sizes from there site I only have a small shop and am tight on space so would only be going for the saw with the right and left extension tables without the sliding table. if you wouldn't mind could you let me know what the front to back dimension of the saw is including the the fence rails etc and the overall width of the saw with the 2 cast table extensions fitted?
Thanks
Mark


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## wcndave (17 Dec 2015)

Hi Mark, the table is 35" front to back including rails, and 40" wide (just the tables).

However the rails extend past the tables - widthwise, but of course you could always shorten them.

You do need of course outfeed space to, and having almost 1m of cut width to parallel fence is great.

One of the benefits of this saw is its substantial heft and stability, however to take advantage of that when you'd be cutting reasonable size parts from time to time, which would necessitate some space all around the saw. If you only have space for the saw and tables itself and no more, you might want to consider something cheaper, or smaller, like the axminster TS. Of course, this is a great saw, I just sorta feel it needs adequate space to flourish ;-)


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

wcndave":1ncw0ejj said:


> Hi Mark, the table is 35" front to back including rails, and 40" wide (just the tables).
> 
> However the rails extend past the tables - widthwise, but of course you could always shorten them.
> 
> ...



That's great Dave thanks for the info mate, I have a smallish shop but do have space all of my other machines are on mobile bases so can be moved around into better positions if I need to work on long stock even outside if needs be and this saw would also be on a mobile base, as long as I have space to manover them I'm fine and I have track saws to break down sheet goods and roller stands etc for out feed so large sheets arnt really a problem. I'l have a measure up and see if it's plausble for me to accommodate this saw in my shop I hope so as I really like the look of it. I think I would need to trim those fence rails down a bit though are they just box section mild steel?


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## wcndave (17 Dec 2015)

I can't find my hardness tester ;-) It was no problem to cut with angle grinder or large hacksaw. What I did, as I had to cut a little bit away for sliding table, was to cut with angle grinder and then smooth it out and take off the plastic cap from the piece i'd cut to the new end. You can't tell the difference.

It needs a decent mobile base, as it's quite heavy.

I gotta say I do love the sliding table, I can't imagine doing cabinets without it. it only really takes extra front to back room, however, you can't put it on a mobile base with that 

You'll probably need a good aftermarket mitre fence. The one that comes with is not bad as they go, however the sliding table fence is order of magnitude better, and the stock fence doesn't really get a look in.

In any case, it's a great machine!


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

wcndave":1n1i1nhk said:


> I can't find my hardness tester ;-) It was no problem to cut with angle grinder or large hacksaw. What I did, as I had to cut a little bit away for sliding table, was to cut with angle grinder and then smooth it out and take off the plastic cap from the piece i'd cut to the new end. You can't tell the difference.
> 
> It needs a decent mobile base, as it's quite heavy.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the info Dave :wink: sounds easy enough to shorten the rails. Yeah. Think the sliding table is a no go as I definitely need the mobile base, would probably go for the Jet heavy duty mobile base I think it's rated to 270kg so should be upto it. I have an Incra 1000 HD mitre fence which is very accurate once adjusted and I would think will fit the slots on the table but not sure with them being t-slots not sure if it makes a difference?


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## wcndave (17 Dec 2015)

Lucky fella!

Should be fine, you can see here: http://incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html that it's fitted into a t-slot.

If you have that mitre guage, what TS do you have now if you don't mind me asking?


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

wcndave":30esek8u said:


> Lucky fella!
> 
> Should be fine, you can see here: http://incra.com/miter_gauges-miter1000hd.html that it's fitted into a t-slot.
> 
> If you have that mitre guage, what TS do you have now if you don't mind me asking?



I have a Dewalt dw744 portable contractor saw, I'm a joiner by trade and have had the saw about ten years and it's been well used on all manor of carpentry and don't get me wrong it's a good saw and is fairly accurate and will continued to be used and kept in the van, but I'm now wanting a stationary saw (on a mobile base lol) which is powerful as well as accurate as I'm now going to start doing some finer woodworking as a bit of a hobby making boxes, cutting boards and who knows what else. I have got a Hammer (Felder) planer/thicknesser and bandsaw which I picked up in excellent 2nd hand condition for a good price and would have loved there k3 panel saw which has a sliding table and is about the same size as the Xcaliber but it's nearly double the price of the Xcalibur saw which is a bit rich for my taste and have never seen one for sale 2nd hand yet


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## wcndave (17 Dec 2015)

ok, sounds like you'll have a good set up at the end, do you really take that beautiful incra on site? Otherwise not sure where you'd use it!


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

wcndave":39atsfll said:


> ok, sounds like you'll have a good set up at the end, do you really take that beautiful incra on site? Otherwise not sure where you'd use it!



Not as a rule, I used a few times to make some precssion cuts on some high end stuff but I mainly bought it for the hobby side of things and have used it on a few small projects but feel the need for the bigger saw and I'm sure it would feel more at home on the xcalibur


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## Steve Maskery (17 Dec 2015)

I had mine on a mobile base in my last workshop. Now it sits firmly on the floor and it is much, much better to work with. I understand why mobile bases are necessary in a small space but they do compromise stability somewhat. 

But as Dave says, it's a great machine.


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## DennisCA (17 Dec 2015)

I Built my own base based on a woodgears.ca design and it's super stable because it's only on wheels when it's in motion, otherwise it sits on it's own feet.


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

Steve Maskery":11shc1ea said:


> I had mine on a mobile base in my last workshop. Now it sits firmly on the floor and it is much, much better to work with. I understand why mobile bases are necessary in a small space but they do compromise stability somewhat.
> 
> But as Dave says, it's a great machine.


Thanks for the heads up Steve but mine will have to be mobile for now


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

DennisCA":wl4kxbly said:


> I Built my own base based on a woodgears.ca design and it's super stable because it's only on wheels when it's in motion, otherwise it sits on it's own feet.



Hi Dennis do you have any pics?


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## DennisCA (17 Dec 2015)

Here's the original page I read about this base
https://woodgears.ca/mobile_base/table_saw.html

And here's the model I made for my saw, which is a lot heavier:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7582/1605 ... cbaa_b.jpg

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3946/1495 ... d7ef_b.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3945/1557 ... 6978_b.jpg


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

DennisCA":12necxco said:


> Here's the original page I read about this base
> https://woodgears.ca/mobile_base/table_saw.html
> 
> And here's the model I made for my saw, which is a lot heavier:
> ...


Thanks Dennis that's looks a nice job youve made there might look into that if I get the saw


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## MBcarpentry (17 Dec 2015)

Stuck my head into Axminster tools today to see what they had on offer table saw wise but the only thing that compared to the xcalibur was there industrial range saw which was full £1200 more expensive! it did have the sliding carriage and was a 300mm blade but still the price difference is astronomical, and I would say it was an identical saw in terms of looks and the design. They did offer me a display model jet jts600 xm panel saw for £800 which was £450 off the marked price but the saw did not look half the saw the xcalibur is I may be wrong as I'v never used either saw but that was my gut feeling, so the xcalibur is still my front runner, I had a bit of a measure and with the sizes Dave gave me I should be able to get it in and have room to manover if I cut the rails down abit


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## MBcarpentry (18 Dec 2015)

Well I made my mind up today and pulled the trigger on the Xcalibur saw sent Woodford a deposit and should be in position of my new saw some time at the end of January  thanks for all the help, info and advice I'm sure i'l have more questions when it arrives :wink:


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## morturn (1 Mar 2016)

This has been a great tread, some really useful and practical comments posted.

I see that a number of the forum members have these saws now, I am quite seriously thinking of ordering one.

Now that the ones on this tread have been in use for a while now, are there any issues arising now?

Does the sliding table have the degree marks for mitre cuts?


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## wcndave (2 Mar 2016)

There are degree marks, and you can really lock the angle down with the two grips, however it takes so long to set it up for perfect right angle cuts, that I never like to move mine, so I don't. seems a shame, however getting back to perfect 90 is just too time consuming.


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## morturn (10 May 2016)

I have taken delivery of my Harvey tables saw yesterday. I also bought the sliding table.

It looks like I am going to have to shorten the rails and box section for the fence. Is this the norm when fitting a sliding table?


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2016)

I'd be surprised if you have to shorten the rails, but you might have to mount them further to the right.


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## wcndave (11 May 2016)

Hi, I think I posted about this a while back.

This does seem to be a flaw with the rail set up and the sliding table.

I know I had to cut about 20cm off the box section.

Basically you can mount the rails and box to some matching holes slightly further along, so just shift to the right, however it doesn't shift quite enough, and you have to cut something off. Get the angle grinder out!

Also you have to discard one cast iron "wing".

The final thing was that the gap for the mitre slots wont match up, so I cut a new pair to fit.

Then the final final thing was that I used the default position for the measuring line, and therefore used less of the tape than I should, and hence the last 10cm has no scale. I should have done it the other way.

Would some pictures and measurements help?


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## morturn (11 May 2016)

Hi wcndave

Many thanks, you have explained it perfectly, thanks.

My concern is that this is a one way trip, if I find I don't get on with the sliding table. Its a bit new and unknown, but am sure it will be fine.

PS do you use a dado stack and if so, who did you get it from?


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## wcndave (11 May 2016)

Amendment to previous answer, just popped down to have a look.

I did not need to cut the rails, as they have holes in the correct position, however I did have to cut out two small sections for mitre slots - only needed if your sledges and so on have the mitre come out the front.

The back rail did not need this modification as it sits below the level

The box section I cut a little bit off.

With the rails and box aligned to the left, as close to the sliding table as possible, I get 88cm possible right side cut with the fence. The fence will go further to the right as the rails / box are moved to the right.

In terms of one way trip, I don't think you need worry. If you revert to left wing, then you will simple lose some box section on the left, which means if you put the fence on the left, it won't go so far. I never put the fence on the left. Ever. So would not be a problem at all, I'd probably leave where it is now to get more space on the right.

However as it's longer to the right, the tape is not long enough, so move the mark to the right side, and put tape on, and you can have tape right up to 90cm mark. I didn't do this, so I get up to 75, then have to measure after. (I moved the tape, however I'd already cut it with the marker on the left)

In terms of getting on with sliding table, I love it, I can't imagine not having it. The only downside is that with the square fence in place, you get about 10cm clearance on the left of the blade. If you pull the table back, you have about 1.5m from mitre fence to blade. So, if you cut a board that's more than 1.5m long, and you're cutting off more than 10cm from left side, it gets in the way. You can remove the mitre fence, however I spend hours getting it square, so I never do that. It also means I don't use it for angles, unless I have a big project with lots of precise angle cuts.

I cut larger boards to rough size with tracksaw anyway, so none of this is really a problem.

One other slight downside with sliding table is that the power switch is behind you when working at table, however again, not a big deal.

I don't use a dado stack, although I am seriously considering it. Watching Marc Spagnolo and Steve Ramsey makes me want one. Reading all the UK stories about why they're bad puts me off. I think I would probably get the one from woodford though, as it's definitely going to fit, and I wouldn't use it enough to need something very expensive.

You probably need an outfeed table at the back. I built one on wheels which is also a cupboard, so I can move to where I need based on size of material. With all that in place and the S/T, the footprint is quite high - for an ideal set up.

With all that in place though, I have a pretty amazing set up, and I am sure you'll enjoy it too!

Just lay out your box and rails and think hard what you're doing before you cut anything!!


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## morturn (11 May 2016)

Great, and thanks.


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