# Thieving sprouts AGAIN



## Blister (17 May 2009)

I dont believe my luck at the moment 

Went down the sheds to look for some bits for Paul J and I find this :evil: 






















and this is how they go in down my side way , must have jumped over a 6ft high gate to break the hasp and clasp on the inside :twisted: 






This is the second time in 6 months , I bet its the same but holes that did it last time 

How the hell do you stop them getting in ?

3 locks on the garage door all crow bared off 

2 locks on the shed both crow bared off 

and yes they had a field day 

even took my compressor this time and that's not small 

various other power tools 

I have realy had it with F ing Dagenham

I am so pis-ed off its unreal :twisted: :twisted: :evil:


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## Mattty (17 May 2009)

Really sad news mate. I don't really know what to say. Will you be covered on your insurance?


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## big soft moose (17 May 2009)

Blister":2tuvlrvf said:


> I dont believe my luck at the moment
> 
> Went down the sheds to look for some bits for Paul J and I find this :evil:
> 
> ...



I agree , theiving twunts

mind you looking on the bright side presumably your insurance will pay out and as you are "selling up for a new life" they have saved you the bother of selling the kit.

regretably its quite common that the same crew will hit a workshop more than once - they give you enough time to claim insurance and restock and then hit you again.

The only answer is a big f off dog ( or keeping an eye on the classifieds locally for someone selling your kit then going and reasoning with them team handed)

with regard to fitting padlocks you can get set ups where the hasp is inside a metal box so cant be got at and the whole lot is bolted through the door to a reinforced plate on the inside - mind you we had an episode when i worked in mk where some TGB s used a blow torch to melt the padlock on one of these - so you can never keep the scummers out - just make their lives more difficult


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## Beardo16 (17 May 2009)

Not sure you have thought of CCTV or fit an alarm to your unit.

Just a thought but that would seriously f**k me right off.


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## Paul.J (17 May 2009)

Bl---- h--- Allen :evil: 
It wasn't me honest :shock: 
Sorry to see this.
I and the neighbour had the same a few years ago.They took all my fishing tackle,some of it was what my dad bought when i first started fishing so was sentimental more than anything.
But as you say how do you stop it. :?:


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## wizer (17 May 2009)

:shock: **sholes. Put as much as you can in the lock-up Allen. They may have seen something they'll be back for. As you say, the locks are useless. Aside from a very big dog, not much you can do. I'd lend you mine, but they're far too vicious


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## neilyweely (17 May 2009)

Digit
Thats terrible mate


OK, what can you do to improve things?
Make sure the timber frame around the lock is sound. If you can fix the hasp/bolt thru the timber, with bolts NOT screws, and into a metal plate behind the frame/door to stop it from being so easily prised off. I have 4 bolts on the WS door, all bolted thru with serious bolts and all set into good strong timber. 

The windows are all covered with chicken wire on the outside and with grilles on the inside. The grilles are bolted into the walls and then the chipboard covering the walls is covering the bolts and 2 inches of the edge of the grille, if you know what I mean. In other words the grilles are going nowhere.

Inside the WS I have 2 alarms. The first is an all in one sensor/ siren. The other is a sensor linked to the house alarm. Both go off straight away; no delay.

Then the power tools are stored in 2 metal cabinets and a floor safe, all of which are bolted with heavy duty bolts to the floor and walls. Padlocks all good quality.

If the alarm goes off I am down there in a flash with the large mallet and I would not hesitate to use it. But that is my mentality.

The neighbours know the alarm, and will check if they hear it. I never set it off myself so they do not ignore it thinking it is a false alarm.

All the stuff is from auctions etc and costs very little. Having said all that it is only a matter of time, I know that, and there is nothing you can do to STOP it, all you can do is make your WS a less attractive prospect than the one down the road/ next door (sorry folks!!)

I am really sorry Blister. Trouble is also there is a market for stolen power tools/ machines. Hope you can replace it all soon, and that there may be a good idea hidden amongst all my paranoia!!

Best wishes.

Neil


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## TheTiddles (17 May 2009)

What we need is a group of people who's job it is to stop crime, I'd gladly pay my taxes to form something like this, if only there was such a visionary in parliament...

Aidan


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## wizer (17 May 2009)

You have some funny ideas Aidan. _Really_


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## big soft moose (17 May 2009)

TheTiddles":qs3txcmq said:


> What we need is a group of people who's job it is to stop crime, I'd gladly pay my taxes to form something like this, if only there was such a visionary in parliament...
> 
> Aidan



indeed - and to have that group of people be given a more free hand, not bound about by stupid rules and regulations and thus find themselves spending more time on paperwork than on chasing criminals.


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## gatesmr2 (17 May 2009)

Hiya Blister

Seems like they are out and about this weekend.
Some EVIL :evil: ......... make up the rest yourself, decided to see how much oil i had left in my tank. Luckily it was nearly empty but now i have to find a way to secure it, plus the cost of fitting some lights and repairing the line into the house.

Feel sorry for you mate. 
Not much else to say i know how your feeling well if your thinking about a nice dark alley a baseball bat and a couple of hours alone with who ever did this. :twisted: 

Martin


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## big soft moose (17 May 2009)

gatesmr2":2ekwbc6d said:


> Hiya Digit
> 
> Seems like they are out and about this weekend.
> Some EVIL :evil: ......... make up the rest yourself, decided to see how much oil i had left in my tank. Luckily it was nearly empty but now i have to find a way to secure it, plus the cost of fitting some lights and repairing the line into the house.
> ...



Blister martin, Blister - Digit is Roy who lives in north wales and as far as i know hasnt been turned over by a bunch of theiving dagenham arseheads.

with regard to your tank you can get those boxed over padlocks i was talking about welded onto a storage tank (though clearly it needs to be empty first.


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## gatesmr2 (17 May 2009)

Cheers BSM  

Changed it lol sorry Blister 

And you had the same thought as me about a box over the tap and connections etc.
Not sure if to get braided hose or encase the copper one in something like a scaffold pole.


Martin


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## Dalboy (17 May 2009)

I am with you all in this two weeks ago had the caravan broken into we were just getting ready to do a craft fair and the thieving F****** took 1/2 of my wife's stock. Luckily we had got extra at home so was able to do the craft fair. My thoughts go out with all that have had things nicked


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## wizer (17 May 2009)

We've been lucky here. Neither us or my parents who lived here for 25yrs have ever been broken in to. However, I have had my log store on the drive disturbed a couple of times. Obviously not valuable enough. We live on the corner of a junction, so cars have to slow down by our house and I guess it's natural for people to have a nose. I can't tell you how many people have walked up to the garage door and asked me what I'm up to. "minding my own f*ckin business thanks!". It's got to the point that I either don't open the door or leave it just 2ft open to let some air in.


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## Digit (17 May 2009)

So true BSM. My shop doesn't even _have _a lock!
Having said that some little s**ts have just trashed my son's car!

Roy.


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## matt (17 May 2009)

I think I'd be tempted to use a mortise lock instead of hasp and padlock. Nothing to lever off. Also fit hinge bolts on the hinge side.


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## laird (17 May 2009)

No wonder you're getting out. Plenty of ways to stop it - but not many that this do gooding system we have to live with would allow.


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## miles_hot (17 May 2009)

sorry to hear mate - as others have said hopefully the insurance will cover it but often hard to get full value etc. At least no hurt done to people but god it's going to water you right off.

Miles


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## BMac (17 May 2009)

Blister, you have my sympathy. I got done over at Christmas two years ago and lost a couple of grands worth of stuff that I had to fight with the insurance company over because they wanted to replace my stuff with cheap rubbish (new for old). I finally got my good gear replaced but the big issue for me wasn't as much getting stuff stolen as knowing those b*stards were in going through my stuff.

Needless to say, nobody was ever caught (or even looked for I expect).

Brendan


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

Sorry to hear about the break-in. Robbing scumbags.

As for how to stop them, I'd suggest a solution I heard someone suggest for classic car security... don't use sound as an alarm - use it as a weapon.

You can get some ludicrously loud sirens which make it physically painful to stay in the area - even worse in an enclosed space. One of those things screaming from behind a protective cage 6 feet from the scumbag's ears should bring you running and send them packing at the same time.

With a normal alarm they may be tempted to chance their arm and rob a few things anyway but if staying in the room causes physical pain and makes it hard to think they'd probably just leg it.

We had a brutal alarm in a pub I used to work in in France, imagine a rape alarm sort of sound (pulsing) at really high volume. One time I set it off by accident I didn't even stop to put the code in, I just went out to the street and waited for it to stop before going in to disarm it. It wasn't even as loud as many serious sirens, but in an enclosed space it hurt.

Totally legal and also adds the bonus of the sheer fright making the thieves make a mess on themselves! Haha.


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## Grinding One (18 May 2009)

Ever think about wrapping a hot wire to the doornob? Switch it on from the house....off when you go out there,you will find they will not bother with you after a good jolt.


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## BMac (18 May 2009)

Attractive as booby traps are they will result in a lot more bother for you than any attempted crime.


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## devonwoody (18 May 2009)

Big Shot, dont the intruders have ear plugs these days?


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## paulm (18 May 2009)

You have my sympathies Blister, must be awful and the worry of repeat visits too.

Couple of thoughts for you.

Is there anything that can be done to make it impossible for them to get over the 6' gate, like putting something above it, trellis, rebar, wire etc. Doesn't have to be Fort Knox, just anything that would take more time and effort and noise for them to get past.

Looks like the weak spots were not the padlocks used but the fittings and/or screws used. You can get much heavier fittings from Screwfix and such like that are significantly more difficult to break than the ones in the pics which look a little lightweight possibly ? Use of heavy coachbolts and similar for all fittings and with reinforcing timber or metal plate on the inside to beef up the mounting might also help.

Sounds like a lot of time, bother and expense, but good quality kit well fitted might help a bit, even if only to slow them down and increase chances of being interrupted.....

All the best, Paul


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## mickthetree (18 May 2009)

Hey Blister 

Really sorry to hear that mate. 

In light of Blister's bad fortune here and the apparent common place of this, maybe we should all take this as an opportunity to seriously mark our equipment. It would make resale for the thieves more difficult and could even lead to the return of equipment in the future if discovered. 

I know it may (possibly) reduce the resale value if you intend to sell any of your equiptment in the future, but I'm sure this is worth the hassle of loosing the stuff in the first place. 

Plastic moulded cases (on powertools) can be embossed with your name and address using a heated metal stamp, metal casings can be scratched with details, wooden handles can be carved. 

I suspect clear visual marks are better than the ultra violet type pens as I doubt the regular bobby carries a black light to check them with. 

I would suggest that you put a sticker in the window of any shed / workshop where tools can be seen that states that all tools are clearly marked. 

Maybe also add a caveat to the sticker diminishing any responsibility for any injury sustained whilst your thieving b*&%^$d hands are reifling through my gear!!! 

tuppence worth.


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## newt (18 May 2009)

mickthetree":1tdhqmuf said:


> Hey Blister
> 
> Really sorry to hear that mate.
> 
> ...




The marking can certainly help, but any notice assumes the sub morons can read.


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## devonwoody (18 May 2009)

Isnt there a electric plating system that can be fitted to door handles, no need to have it on all the time? :wink:


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## John. B (18 May 2009)

Sorry to hear about that allen,
I thought you had alarmed all the sheds?

John. B


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

Any kind of booby trap is an open invitation for Johnny Scumbag to press charges against you. As stupid as it is, the law and the courts don't look at the case and say "What were you doing there in the first place? Stealing? 5 years hard labour!" they look it and say you expected someone to be breaking in so set a trap for them and so are guilty of a crime befitting the level of injuries and distress the scumbag suffers.
If I ruled the world I'd give a beating to anyone who tried to press charges against their would-be victim after being injured in the course of committing a crime.



Devonwoody
As for scumbags carrying earplugs - I wouldn't have thought they'd be standard issue kit, no. And with the kind of volumes of sound I'm talking about you'd want some serious hearing protection to even hope for no lasting damage.
The bonus of sound like that is it also doubles as an alarm bringing the unwelcome attention that they go to great lengths to avoid.


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## Vormulac (18 May 2009)

I have always meant to fit one of those weapons-grade alarms inside my workshop, I think the two biggest you can get are the Klaxon Inferno (125db) and the Master Blaster (127db). Apparently either of these can make it virtually impossible to actually enter the room in which it is going off.


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, Vormulac.

"weapons-grade alarms" - beautifully put. I do like that expression. 

Just for fun, here's a quick rundown of decibel levels in real-world terms...


0 dB Threshold of hearing 
10 dB Rustling of leaves 
20 dB Whisper 
30 dB Quiet conversation 
40 dB Average home 
50 dB Normal conversation 
60 dB Busy shop 
70 dB City street 
80 dB Busy workplace 
90 dB Underground railway 
100 dB Pneumatic drill 10ft away 
110 dB Propeller aircraft taking off 
120 dB Jet aircraft taking off 


Remember, each 10 decibels is ten times louder than the one before.
So the 120dB Jet aircraft is ten times louder than the 110dB Propeller aircraft. Which would make the Klaxon Inferno 5 times louder and the Master Blaster 7 times louder than a jet aircraft taking off. OUCH!


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

They certainly wouldn't be answering any questions very soon after that!

Roy.


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## Vormulac (18 May 2009)

Just promise me if you fit a MasterBlaster you fit a camera too so we have footage of the scrote's head exploding when he trips it. I could use a chuckle :twisted:


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

Vormulac
We could collect the footage and sell it to some TV channel. It'd be a bit like that "Bait Car" series only with scrotes jumping 6 feet in the air and hitting their head on the workshop ceiling!


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## CWatters (18 May 2009)

Blister - don't forget to keep an eye on ebay for the stuff that got nicked. That and the local pornbrokers shops. With ebay I think you can set up alerts so it emails you when what you are looking for appears.


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## Joints (18 May 2009)

First I have to say I am very sorry to hear about this, cowardly sprouts all of them!

I must however say that those locks to not look upto scratch.

Think about having a metal bar that is drilled with hinges into stonework on one side of the door, that then goes acros the width of the door and is the bolted with a very big padlock into the stonework on the otherside.

It a very secure way to lock your door as they have to either hack the door with an axe or use an angle grinder on the bar which both make a lot of noise.

But the most important thing is that it looks hard to get into which, i am afraid those locks screwed into the woodwork dont.


PS - Buy a pitbull, keep it in the shop, do not feed it.


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## OPJ (18 May 2009)

Very sorry to hear this has happened to you _again_, Blister. 

I think you've already had plenty of great advice... Do you think it would've been possible to have replaced those screws with bolts, secured on the inside with Nyloc nuts? I think you could've done this on the doors, no problem. Drilling through the frame would've been tricky.


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## promhandicam (18 May 2009)

Sorry to read about your problems. However by the look of the security you had, the padlocks / hasps and staples weren't really going to stop anyone who wanted to get in. The best way I've seen of protecting padlocked doors is with a metal box fitted over the top of the lock with an opening in the bottom - easier to do on a metal door where it is welded in place but feasible on a sturdy wooden door if it is bolted on with a decent size metal plate on the back. It is a bit of a fiddle to reach up inside it to undo the padlock but it saves someone whacking the padlock to pop it open or levering off the hasp/staple. This will stop the less determined thieves but at the end of the day if someone wants to get in then they will - through the roof is the easiest way on most workshops. 

Steve


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

Vormulac":3hsgdnoe said:


> I have always meant to fit one of those weapons-grade alarms inside my workshop, I think the two biggest you can get are the Klaxon Inferno (125db) and the Master Blaster (127db). Apparently either of these can make it virtually impossible to actually enter the room in which it is going off.



we had one of those where i used to work , plus a smoke cloak device the fills the building with harmless glycol smoke - to the point where visibility is limited to less than a foot.

i can vouch for the effectiveness as it was my lucky lot to be care taker and or more than one occasion i had to disarm the thing (after some scrote tripped it trying to break in) , and the only way to tolerate it long enough to find the panel and punch in the code was to wear industrial quality ear defenders

it would then take nearly an hour to vent all the smoke , to get things to a visible level - no way would anyone have been able to steal anything from that place.

the downside tho is that they are expensive systems to fit and maintain, and only really viable if you are opperating a comercial level. Also you need someone on site as the neighbours will not love you if it trips and theres no one there to disarm it.


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

promhandicam":2l58cz52 said:


> Sorry to read about your problems. However by the look of the security you had, the padlocks / hasps and staples weren't really going to stop anyone who wanted to get in. The best way I've seen of protecting padlocked doors is with a metal box fitted over the top of the lock with an opening in the bottom - easier to do on a metal door where it is welded in place but feasible on a sturdy wooden door if it is bolted on with a decent size metal plate on the back. It is a bit of a fiddle to reach up inside it to undo the padlock but it saves someone whacking the padlock to pop it open or levering off the hasp/staple. This will stop the less determined thieves but at the end of the day if someone wants to get in then they will - through the roof is the easiest way on most workshops.
> 
> Steve



add to this case hardened padlocks , and a couple of strands of razor wire over the back gate - as if they cant climb in they arent going to get as far as breaking into the sheds.


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

Careful with razor wire.
I can't remember the exact rules but if you get it wrong you'll end up in trouble if Johnny Scumbag hurts himself on it.

I still find it offensive that a scrote hurting himself (whether through booby trap, violent assault by the victim or anything else) when comitting a crime can prosecute their intended victim or the hero that stopped them, but that's the utterly stupid law we live with.


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

I'm afraid that Mr Bumble was right, 'the law is a Ass!'

Roy.


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

BigShot":31i3lfcx said:


> Careful with razor wire.
> I can't remember the exact rules but if you get it wrong you'll end up in trouble if Johnny Scumbag hurts himself on it.
> 
> I still find it offensive that a scrote hurting himself (whether through booby trap, violent assault by the victim or anything else) when comitting a crime can prosecute their intended victim or the hero that stopped them, but that's the utterly stupid law we live with.



as with other protective measues such as spikes, sound blasters, smoke cloak, guard dogs etc you have to show that you took "reasonable precautions" to stop the scrote coming to harm.

This what is considered reasonable varys with the precaution but with razor wire it basically boils down to having a large sign on the outside of the gate warning that it is there ( in contrasting colours such as yellow and red so they cant claim they didnt see it because they were colour blind) and using the international symbols so they cant claim they didnt comprehend it cos they dont speaka da engeleeesh to good. You also need to provide PIR activated lighting (itself a reasonable deterent) so that they can clearly see the wire and cant claim they reached up and grasped it without realising what it was.

Booby traps and violent assault are different because here the intention is clearly to cause harm.

Though that said it is sometimes a defence to the assuault claim to say that you acted with "reasonable and proportional force in self defence while in fear of your life". This works better if you are a five foot nothing slip of a girl, a cute grey haired old lady, or a decorated WWII vet, It flys rather less well if like me you are large, hairy , 15 stone , and a double blackbelt


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## Grinding One (18 May 2009)

Wait a minute,you have a shovel?? A garden?? All you need is the fertilizer,the bloke who did wrong...Just plant him.
On another note how about installing a camera??


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

Grinding One":1ssj6voh said:


> Wait a minute,you have a shovel?? A garden?? All you need is the fertilizer,the bloke who did wrong...Just plant him.



ahh what it is to live in the land of the free, the home of the heavily armed. 

this house is protected by smith and wesson - that'd do the trick (except that in dagenham the theiving turnip is probably protected by sig sauer)

Incidentally if you really want to get rid of a corpse burying it in your garden isnt a great idea - what you really need is a wood chipper and a herd of pigs - or so i've heard you understand   :lol:


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

When really the law should just say...

"So what were you doing when the 15 stone, hairy, double black belted naked guy rubbing sleep out of his eyes started hitting you in the face with a hammer?"

"Well your honour, I'd climbed into his back garden, cutting myself on the razor wire as I did so, levered the lock off the workshop and this alarm went off. The next thing I knew he came charging out of the house holding a hammer, wearing nothing but some boots and then everything went black and I woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed."

"I hereby fine you the cost of repairing the damage you've done and a pair of boots to replace the ones you bled on, sentence you to 5 years for attempted burglary, 3 years for criminal damage and 6 months for wasting the court's time with this spurious assault charge...
As for you Mr Hairy 15 Stone Double Black Belt, well done. We need more people to beat the living daylights out of scrotes like this once in a while, keep up the good work. Here's free tickets to see the film of your choice and a nice sturdy baseball bat in case they try to rob you again.
Case closed!"


I can but dream.


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

A friend of mine lives in Kentucky and he was complaining that he had to pay to have the blood removed from his carpet!
So help it's true!

Roy.


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## Joints (18 May 2009)

Thats the kind of pineapples I do hate about being PC.

"If you break into someone else's property with the intent to steal what is not your's and you have a allergic reaction to the Iroko dust in their workshop, sure its their fault and you can sue"


I . . really . . .hate . . .it!!!

:twisted:


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

BigShot":325n9utw said:


> When really the law should just say...
> 
> "So what were you doing when the 15 stone, hairy, double black belted naked guy rubbing sleep out of his eyes started hitting you in the face with a hammer?"
> 
> ...



Nice - but us hairy double black belts dont need hammers :lol:


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

That bit I posted Joints is only half of it.
Apparently my friend shot the burglar in the leg, hence the blood on the carpet.
When the police took the guy away a cop stopped to have a word with him.
He said if it happens again would he make sure he killed the intruder as they now had to get an ambulance to ship the guy to hospital and he'd have to fill in lots of paperwork and there would have to be a trial.
If the guy was dead the city buried him and that was an end to it!

Roy.


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

big soft moose
Maybe not generally speaking, but I figure if they are breaking in they are porbably tooled up and I don't see there's any point fighting empty handed unless you absolutely have to. :wink:
Even more so if they are team handed (and the chances are they will be).


Digit
That burglar was lucky. I know a few gun owners out that way and the general view is to aim for the biggest part of the target (not for a kill, but for a more shot hit and lower chance of stray bullets). He's lucky your friend was nice enough and a good enough shot to get him in the leg and not just kill him outright.


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

> general view is to aim for the biggest part of the target



He may well have been doing that BS! :lol: 

Roy.


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

BigShot":149qgcbp said:


> big soft moose
> Maybe not generally speaking, but I figure if they are breaking in they are porbably tooled up and I don't see there's any point fighting empty handed unless you absolutely have to. :wink:
> Even more so if they are team handed (and the chances are they will be).
> 
> .



thing is going back to what i was saying about reasonable and proportional force - using weapons puts you automatically in the wrong - wheras if they are team handed and armed and theres only little ole me all on my onsey and dressed only in my boxers and boots, well who can blame me for giving them a good kicking.

Not to brag but a while back in milton keynes I had a bit of a contre temps with four assholes with knives ( I intervened in a mugging), the ensuing fight took about 2 minuites begining to end and net result one scrote with a dislocated knee, two with broken collar bones, and one with a depressed fracture of the cheek bone and a broken nose. No charges proffered against me. " 

_well it was self defence officer, there were four of them and they had blades , and they were threatening this old lady , so i had to intervene didnt I? , and then they all turned on me and I was in fear of my life, so i had to defend myself but i only used reasonable force, i stopped hitting them as soon as they were on the floor - the old lady saw it alll and can back up my story_"


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

BigShot":1kie7lrl said:


> Digit
> That burglar was lucky. I know a few gun owners out that way and the general view is to aim for the biggest part of the target (not for a kill, but for a more shot hit and lower chance of stray bullets). .



I know a few texans and their general procedure is just to use a shotgun - at close range they make a hell of a mess (particularly with buckshot), with a very low chance of survivorship. and they aim for the head as more and more scrotes are wearing vests these days


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## BigShot (18 May 2009)

big soft moose":3aoutjr2 said:


> thing is going back to what i was saying about reasonable and proportional force - using weapons puts you automatically in the wrong


Legally speaking, yea.
I don't see any moral problem with it whatsoever and to be honest I think the law should reflect that.
Can't see it happening though.


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## Digit (18 May 2009)

Out of curiosity BSM, what did the court do them after you'd finished with them?

Roy.


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## big soft moose (18 May 2009)

Digit":byu6i0qt said:


> Out of curiosity BSM, what did the court do them after you'd finished with them?
> 
> Roy.



as i recall 

the ring leader got 5 years (attempted assault, demanding money with menaces, going equiped, intent, possesion of an offensive weapon , being a total pillock in court and abusing the judge) 

the other two over 18 got 3 years a piece for possesion of an offensive weapon and going equiped ( they claimed they werent actively involved in the mugging , and they didnt get a chance to attack me).

and the fourth who was 16 and had a clean record and whose defence was basically that he had been "led astray by the nasty bad big boys" got 2 years (suspended) and 90 hours community service.

which actually given the standards of criminal justice in this country isnt too bad - i was once involved in a different incident featuring three scrotes who mugged an disabled person in a wheel chair and then urinated on her , where two of them got 45 hours comunity service each and the third got a caution - difference was they were middle class scrotes and daddys could afford a decent lawyer.


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## Grinding One (19 May 2009)

In Texas:They have the right to shoot first and kill,but only if they need killing...Proof is on you after they are dead.
In Florida:One of the right to carry concealed states,old ladys used to get robbed all the time but after the law changed to conceal carry the thieves now go after the vacationers...be warned ahead of time.
My home state,you can only kill inside your house after you have been broken into.And the body has to be in the house.
No problem for me,44 mag Rugar Super Red Hawk 7 inch barrel,will drop a chargeing Grizzley Bear
Chicago has passed a law,no guns aloud,people there are killed every day,38 kids killed with guns since the New Year,gang warfare...not all were in gangs but in harms way,between gangs shooting at each other.I think they should set a president and put to death gang leaders....


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## gatesmr2 (19 May 2009)

Hi 

Thought i'd add again as a friend of the family had a problem but this was a good few years ago i was a teenager still.

He had 3 fruit and veg shops and lived above one of them, one sat night with the takings from all three shops with him he heard them breaking in to the shop downstairs.
Like any normal person he grabbed his baseball bat and quietly went down to see who was down there. He knew there was more than one as he had heard them talking, so on seeing the first outline in front of him he hit him with the bat. 
First mistake :?: he hit him from behind 
Second mistake :?: he did not catch the second guy 

OK so whats the problem some thieving scum bags broke in and one of them got a bashing. Poor guy did 6 months for assault.
Oh and although not all the time his son who was 13 used to stay over most weekends luckily not this one though.
To this day i can't see how anyone can claim assault when breaking into someone elses property. If you where not there you would not have got hit.

Sometimes i think we live in a world where being P.C is more important than being decent and fair. :roll:


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## RogerS (19 May 2009)

There is some sanity creeping back into the system.

Remember that poor Greek lorry driver? The one woken up, while asleep in his lorry, at 3am by three baseball bat wielding scrotes? The Greek killed one of them outright with his knife, stabbed the other two - one of whom also subsequently died. Arrested by the police, he was later released.

Two down...only a few tens of thousands to go.


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## Joints (19 May 2009)

make no mistakes if anyone tries breaking into my place when i am around they will get a hammer to the head or a chisel in the neck! 

the police can get stuffed ill say he came at me with my axe!


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## BigShot (19 May 2009)

BSM
Exactly the sentences I'd guessed actually.
I read Digit's question and thought "3 to 5 a piece". Not bad really.


Grinding One
They say if you have a choice of where to live in the USA, go to the places with the worst "Brady Grades". The ones with the lowest grades suggesting the "worst" gun laws are all the safest places to live, and the areas with A and B grades are the sort of areas you're more likely to end up at the business end of a scumbag holding a firearm. Funny that.


Gatesmr2
I agree that there's something wrong with it when someone can press charges after being somewhere they shouldn't be and someone attacks them (or more accurately, defends themselves).
Didn't you know? PC _is_ decent and fair. Those poor people have such a hard life you just _can't_ say they've done anything wrong or hit them for doing it - it isn't _their_ fault they had to break into your house, armed and in a gang in the middle of the night leaving the householder the choice of hoping they don't come upstairs and have their way, to getting rid of them himself. Same when they mug someone in the street, it just wouldn't be _right_ for someone to retaliate, it's not their fault.
Or something.


RogerS
I never heard the outcome of that.
Good to hear it! No good that he was arrested, but there you have it.


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## white_sw (19 May 2009)

Blister, sorry to hear your bad news......

Touch wood, I've only had my garage broken into once and I have since moved to a more desirable area. 

Anyway, when I reported it to the old bill, I asked the question what if I had caught the b4st4rd5 in the act
and give them a slap with the pickaxe handle I keep by my bed . Their response was to make sure there
was signs of forced entry and that you had dragged them upstairs in the house before calling the Police.
Apparently if they are upstairs they are a much greater threat. So you can then get away with defending
yourself and your property with force. The police officers advice, not mine.

Cheers,
Sam


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## devonwoody (19 May 2009)

But can you to do with a burglar on your premises?

Legally?


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## big soft moose (19 May 2009)

gatesmr2":5nn8rh0k said:


> Hi
> 
> Like any normal person he grabbed his baseball bat and quietly went down to see who was down there. He knew there was more than one as he had heard them talking, so on seeing the first outline in front of him he hit him with the bat.
> First mistake :?: he hit him from behind
> Second mistake :?: he did not catch the second guy



third mistake he presumably told the police the truth about what happened.

I'd have spun that as " _well officer he came at me with a knife - this knife here (the one i've just picked up from the kitchen and stuck under the sofa before calling the police), he nearly got me but i jumped backwards and picked up the first thing that came to hand to defend myself with (this here bat), then i knocked the knife out of his hand and he went to pick it up so i hit him again to make sure he didnt, which was how he got hit from behind - i'm really sorry if it was wrong officer but ive got my wife and golden haired child upstairs and i was in fear for all our lives.._"

10 to 1 the police would know that it was pineapples but unless you were unlucky enough to get a real jobsworth they'd record it as gods honest truth - okay the two scumbags can swear up and down that it didnt happen like that , but hey they're scrotes who cares what they say - if you dont incriminate yourself then mostly you can walk away uncharged (so long as you didnt use disproportionate force like beating him to a pulp while he is incapacitated)


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## promhandicam (20 May 2009)

BSM

From wikipedia:

In the United Kingdom the penalty for perjury is a prison sentence of up to seven years . . . 

Steve


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## Digit (20 May 2009)

> In the United Kingdom the penalty for perjury is a prison sentence of up to seven years . .



Nah! No room in the Inn! :lol: 

Roy.


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## Escudo (21 May 2009)

I am very sorry to hear about this business. Very upsetting.

My neighbour across the street saw some fellas peeing on my garage doors, I thought I know what will fix them. A small electric charge wired to the metal doors. :shock: 

My missus said if I tried to set this up they would arrest me for assault. I thought at the time that it would be worth it just to have my day in court and for the blighters to have to explain what happened. :lol: :lol: 

Hope they catch the thieves.

Tony.


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## TheTiddles (21 May 2009)

big soft moose":3t3mmagt said:


> I know a few texans and their general procedure is just to use a shotgun - at close range they make a hell of a mess (particularly with buckshot), with a very low chance of survivorship. and they aim for the head as more and more scrotes are wearing vests these days



One of the ones I work with collects AK-47's we were playing with them at his local range last week, they had wooden stocks so it's ok to gloat about it on this forum...

Aidan


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## dexter (22 May 2009)

Moose, I hope nothing like that ever happens to you cos you`ve just given your alibi to a load of strangers!
With regards to wiring up door handles etc, that's just a manslaughter charge and time inside waiting to happen and at the very least a wounding with intent. 
In this day and age although the cop who takes the initial report might be sympathetic to the circumstances his/her initial report will be evaluated by someone else who will be duty bound to make sure any ambiguities are highlighlited and followed up. Sadly, The Bill and other such programs bear little resemblance to what really goes on.

Dex


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## head clansman (22 May 2009)

Hi all 

I don't condone the use of firearm's in any way what so ever , but and this is the but, any scrote found on your property or in your home when not invited is fair came by any means that come to hand if he's killed accidentally or other wise, though luck.

The law should reflect this, that you must have the right to defend your home and family at any cost , when he breaks and enter it should be also reflected in the law and understood by society that any person found in this position has stepped outside the law therefore has no human rights whats so ever , if he has no rights then he or any of his relatives cannot sue, in fact it should be reflected that he is the one that will be sued for compensation for property damage and mental or physical damage to you and your family might help some of the scrum bag think twice. hc


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## Digit (22 May 2009)

Agreed!

Roy.


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## cutting42 (22 May 2009)

head clansman":3cphipv5 said:


> I don't condone the use of firearm's in any way what so ever , but and this is the but, any scrote found on your property or in your home when not invited is fair came by any means that come to hand if he's killed accidentally or other wise, though luck.



I understand your sentiments here, a big piece of me would like to agree however allowing this from a legal perspective is condoning manslaughter. I could easily imagine a scenaro where a scrote wants to bump off someone so shoots or stabs them and then transports them to their property and claims they were trespassing and so gave them both barrels.

This is why the law is accepting of reasonable and proportionate force to be used defending yourself and your property, not simply blasting them. That way lies a form of anarchy IMO.


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## head clansman (22 May 2009)

HI 



> a big piece of me would like to agree however allowing this from a legal perspective is condoning manslaughter.




Not at all, it s doing exactly the opposite , its sending all Scrotes &
scum bags a very clear message they will not be tolerated any longer it saying in no uncertain terms we society will no longer tolerate them stealing from us if you want something then bloody well get of your lazy asses and go earn it, like every body else . if they still don't heed, then they are outside the law, and they will get whats coming . hc


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## Jake (22 May 2009)

Can this now be taken off to General Chat, where it belongs?


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## big soft moose (25 May 2009)

promhandicam":3lfqo1xh said:


> BSM
> 
> From wikipedia:
> 
> ...



true - but perjury is telling lies in court

common sense is telling lies to the police so that it doesnt _get_ to court


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## Benchwayze (26 May 2009)

Hi Blister, 

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. I hope you get Insurance sorted. 

As to Crime Prevention:

I'd say you need a hardwood door frame, enclosed all round by good 1/4" thick steel angle. Make a proper FL&B door, with a Chubb or similar mortice lock. Hinged with three good butts, and OPENING INWARDS. I would also put a sheet of galvanised steel on the inside of the door. 
Anyone would find it easier to dismantle the shed then. (Some kind of alarm would help.)

I know inward opening doors take up space, inside but they can't be jimmied open easily. Bodily pressure from outside would have to be enough to overcome the frame, as above, which should withstand all but a 'Police Enforcer'. I speak from experience.

Regards


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## kityuser (26 May 2009)

It really does bug me the way some people think they have the god given right to walk off with somebody elses property.

In these sort of circumstances I would consider this a challenge. Bring on the reinforced wieldmesh screens, metal door frames and reinforced metal doors.

and despite what others have said, IF IT WERE ME, I`ve be making a few "surprises" for any would be thieves.

I disagree with most of the principles of the arabic world, however the "eye for and eye" principle should hold true, and pipper me if the police aint going to enforce it........... one must defend his home from attack.

hope the thieving scum who knicked your gear use it incorrectly and really hurt themselves........

Steve


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## Benchwayze (26 May 2009)

Hi Steve, 

Of course one has to defend against theft. But if Senior Police Officers (who are mostly fresh out of Uni!) concentrated on having Bobbies walking about at night, the scum might not be so willing to take the chance. 

It's great having these cameras to record the crimes they are supposed to deter, but unless you can identify who the scum are, what's the point?

I agree entirely about the steel mesh and shutters. My main defence though is a ruddy great Volvo, parked right up against the up and over door of my brick-built garage. 

Regards


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## kafkaian (26 May 2009)

I've just come back to this forum after a bit of time off due to a heavy workload and am scouring through the threads. Astonished by the gall of these people in this instance but not surprised per se.

My shed is serviced by the house alarm as required by my insurance. Just a few weeks ago the Police were issuing out free shed alarms at our local Police Tasking meetings such was the recent rise in similar recession related crime.

I often think that the level of permissible self-protection should increase during these periods from one of "reasonable force" for trespass to something much more meaningful and in reflection of these austere times.

As for CCTV, you can bet most of these people will be wearing hoodies and protection against biometric detection unless they are totally out of it due to psychotropic influences. It doesn't help when you can pick up bolt cutters from Lidl or Wickes etc for a few pennies either, but I agree with everyone suggesting lining surfaces and frames with metal. Now's the time to go to town and like Kityuser, this should be a challenge to us all.


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## kityuser (26 May 2009)

kafkaian":2e2gzmyp said:


> I've just come back to this forum after a bit of time off due to a heavy workload and am scouring through the threads. Astonished by the gall of these people in this instance but not surprised per se.
> 
> My shed is serviced by the house alarm as required by my insurance. Just a few weeks ago the Police were issuing out free shed alarms at our local Police Tasking meetings such was the recent rise in similar recession related crime.
> 
> ...



I couldn't agree more, sounds like time to make his workshop a fortress and repel the thieving scum at all cost....
I like the idea of an alarm that makes you bleed at the ears, I remember seeing a recipe somewhere for the same stink bombs that greenpiece use , maybe someway of spraying them with it thats activated by the alarm...... by all accounts its smells so bad it makes you physically sick and can't be washed off as it soaks into the skin.

there really is no other way though, people like these need to be taught a lesson.

Steve


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## devonwoody (27 May 2009)

And just remember if they are caught there is no room in prisons for them, especially after a new intake of MPs to come.


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## kafkaian (27 May 2009)

devonwoody":1aelfj1u said:


> ... especially after a new intake of MPs to come.


I wouldn't bank on that outcome to be frank and why, for the first time in 27 years, I've shredded my polling card.


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## devonwoody (27 May 2009)

kafkaian":7wp6f4xw said:


> devonwoody":7wp6f4xw said:
> 
> 
> > ... especially after a new intake of MPs to come.
> ...



You dont need your card to vote.

Vote him out whoever he is,and what ever party he represented goes with him. I think many have claimed higher expenses than their over inflated salaries which we know is a better tax avoidance than any other method.


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## kafkaian (27 May 2009)

devonwoody":3buv3byp said:


> You dont need your card to vote.


I know you don't. The gesture was symbolic.


devonwoody":3buv3byp said:


> Vote him out whoever he is,and what ever party he represented goes with him. I think many have claimed higher expenses than their over inflated salaries which we know is a better tax avoidance than any other method.


Unless they give us an abstention box to tick in order to officially reject the system, then I don't see the point. I won't ever vote for fascist parties so the only option for me would be Green Party or UKIP. I might go the former or the old spoil......but for the first time in my life I suspect I just won't bother.


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## head clansman (27 May 2009)

Hi 

MPs are elected by us to form a government to run the country on behalf of HM (democracy)

Why has she not insisted they all resign, then justice can be been done , and all be prosecuted for theft , i don't want to see any of them get away with this , they have been feeding like swine at a trough each trying to get more than the next , can't Waite till they start on the house of lords and the Euro Mp,s as well, this is only just starting . we ain't seen nothing yet. hc 

oh, as for voting for them, can we have a vote this time around just to vote them all out so we can start a fresh , any guesses how many will be reelected ? 0


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## devonwoody (27 May 2009)

An excerpt from our local paper today


The row comes only weeks after a senior Audit Commission inspector highlighted that badly-behaved councillors were dragging down the reputation of Torbay Council.


More TBAs ?


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