# earnshaw bros



## neilyweely (12 Jun 2008)

I am sure philly will know this one - 

I bought an old wooden plane today, two foot long (approx), in need of a little tlc but basically usable. 

I got her home and stripped her down, gave her a light rubbing down and then a very thin coat of varnish, for aesthetics. The blade on it weighs a ton!! It must be near on 4mm thick, and I am hoping it is still ok.

So, my question(s) is this; The blade, after being rubbed down for a couple of hours, cleaned up ok but has some fairly severe pitting. It is easy to differentiate between the part of the blade which has been hardened and that which hasn't and whilst most of the pitting is on the back half there is some quite close to the cutting edge. I also seem to be having a bit of trouble getting it to hold a good sharp edge. Now I am not the worlds best at sharpening a blade but this thing seems to be beyond me, and I can't figure out why. It bears the name Earnshaw Bros, Sheffield, and I feel sure it is the original part still.

Can anyone help, I have nice visions of my using this baby to trim down the edges of doors on site, and drawing admiring looks from my colleagues!!!

Cheers all

Neil


----------



## Philly (12 Jun 2008)

HI Neil
First thing - the iron. You have lots of length left on it, yes? And can see where the steel "cutting edge" is forge welded onto the wrought iron "back"? (There is an obvious point where the two metals meet, usually at the bottom of the back iron slot) If so then you are definitely sharpening steel so should be able to get an edge. 
The pitting on the back - as long as you can get an area clear right at the cutting edge you'll be o.k.. Using the "Ruler Trick" will make life a lot easier, too, with a pitted blade.
What stones are you using for sharpening?
Cheers
Philly


----------



## neilyweely (12 Jun 2008)

philly

Thank God you found the post!! I was counting on you!

So, I can see where the cutting edge meets the back ok, and there is loads of good stuff left. And the pitting seems to be clear of the working edge.

Am using diamond sharpening stones, which I usually get a good edge with, but have never sharpened a plane blade this thick. It just seems to, I dunno, stay blunt! I managed to get a RAZOR sharp edge on one of the edges of the cutting edge, but the rest was the same as before.

I have a tutor at college who is a whiz with the creusen gadget, so may give it to him for a minute to sort.

Presumably I should NOT varnish the bottom, the part with the blade protruding, as it is extremely flat as is, and I don't feel I could improve it.

Am sorry you are so far away, I would love you to have a good look at it. I have all these plans for it; one of the lads at work uses a makita plane day in day out, and I know i could get better results with this little beauty. Tell me the secret Philly, what is it?? 

Cheers mate, if i wasn't so useless, and pushed for time, I would post some pics of her.

Thanks buddy.

Neil


----------



## Philly (12 Jun 2008)

Neil
Might be good to have the bevel re-ground. Nice to have a "fresh start" sometimes!
Make sure the iron is flat on the back - if there is a slight round over in front of the edge it is difficult to remove the wire edge, and you never seem to get the iron sharp. Could be the problem?

The "Secret"?? A sharp blade is three quarters of the solution :wink: 
Hope you get her working sweetly,
Cheers
Philly


----------



## Digit (12 Jun 2008)

For my two pennorth Neil, if are two idiots out there you might have the same problem as I had with a very thick iron, in this case by Ward. 
The silly person who had the plane before me had obviously been grinding modern thin irons and ground this one to a bevel 'land' the same width as he would see on the thin iron. 
Result? Ninety degree bevel! 
You don't see many like that, and of course the iron rubbed. Do as Philly says and regrind, with an iron that thick it might take some time, but I'll guarantee it won't judder!

Roy.


----------



## neilyweely (12 Jun 2008)

digit, and philly

I took her out for the day, to see my old tutor at college, and he has managed to get a good edge on the iron, and whilst there I sanded the whole thing down again, apart from the working edge, which is pretty good by all accounts. Whilst sanding the janitor, who collects old tools, has piped up and told me I am wasting my time and that every time I use it I am gonna knock the blade out of square and pipper up my work. He states that, and I quote 'I don't know how they used those things!'.

Well, thought I, they did, for years, and I'm sure they didn't all have this problem with them. However, whilst testing her, sure enough she lost her shape and ripped a gouge out of said workpiece! Now, the iron was pretty firmly in place, so what did I do wrong? I am not gonna give up on her just yet as I don't believe for a minute that the legend that is 'Philly' would waste his time on tools that fundamentally don't work. Or have you just improved massively on the old designs?

I am not into collecting old tools 'cos they look good, I want to use them. If I can't they are no use to me whatsoever. If I don't get on with her then she can find another man!!!

What do I do guys? Help me out here, I beg you. 

cheers folks

neil


----------



## Digit (13 Jun 2008)

If wooden planes have one advantage over Record type planes for example it is the fact that they hold the iron securely, _if_ there is nothing else wrong! 
Check the bed, check the wedge and also check that the iron is not high in the centre where it rests on the bed. If it is then the iron can pivot and will need flattening, exactly as it would if fitted into a metal plane. 
Modern irons are so thin and flimsy that a securely driven wedge can force them into shape, an iron the thickness of yours is not going to give in to a wedge. 
The back must be flat and so must the bed. If/when the are the iron will not move, trust me! 

Roy.


----------



## Philly (13 Jun 2008)

Neil
Generations of craftsmen turned trees into every item imaginable using planes - the humble wooden plane is indeed a highly evolved tool. Don't be fooled by it's simple appearance!
I think you may be overstating things a bit with the legend moniker! :lol: 
Roy has suggested some good areas to check - also the fitting of the wedge is very important. Check it beds evenly on both sides - if it is tighter on one side the iron will swivel. Gently sand the high spots down to get a good fit.
Let us know how you get on,
Best regards
Philly


----------



## Digit (13 Jun 2008)

Yes indeed, please keep us informed.

Roy.


----------



## Peter Evans (16 Jun 2008)

Goodman - British Planemakers does not list "Earnshaw Bros" but does list "Hearnhaw Bros", in business from 1881-1961 or later.


----------



## neilyweely (16 Jun 2008)

peter evans

Blimey, lets have a look, back in a mo






















What do you think?

Looks like Earnshaw to me.

there may be a very VERY faint H in front of it, but the rest of the lettering is so bold I am not sure it could be.

Philly, please tell me what you think. I like her.

Thanks mate.

Neil


----------



## Philly (17 Jun 2008)

Looks like a good 'un, Neil. You've certainly clean her up!!
certainly could be Hearnshaw - doesn't really matter, looks like a good strong iron.
Philly


----------



## bugbear (17 Jun 2008)

neilyweely":2k3q28jx said:


> peter evans
> 
> Blimey, lets have a look, back in a mo
> 
> What do you think?



Blade looks very good indeed. Plane looks a bit varnished, handle looks a bit square.

BugBear


----------



## neilyweely (17 Jun 2008)

philly.

At the top of the iron it looks as if whoever has whacked it a few times with a hammer, probly to stop it movin!! As a result it has got a rather large lip now, and I am wondering what to do with it?

The other thing is that the wedge part has some orrible dark stain on it, which I wasa reluctant to rub down as I did not want to reduce the size of the wedge unknowingly. Should this be a concern? What do you suggest?

The iron was covered in rust. Some of the rust was so bad it has left some bad pitting. What I did was to use a wire brush mounted in a cordless drill, which I know was lazy of me, but to rub down with wire wool would've taken an age. I think I mentioned the fact that the iron is clearly in two parts, the harder working part and the softer, absorbent part behind. It is educational for me to see such, and the way the brush marks look on the two parts shows the degree to which it was hardened.
It was sharpened on a creusen, and is now RAZOR!!! Haven't been able to use though as I can't seem to set her right!

Anyway, am glad she is ok, I was concerned you would say to take her back to the junk shop!! Do you think she can work again?

Thanks mate, speak soon.

Neil.

PS Just read bugbear entry, should I rub ALL the varnish off? There is none on the bottom. I have made an effort to preserve what is left, and have touched it up in places.


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

Setting a woody is easy Neil, _once you know how,_ have you seen Philly's video on the subject? It taught me how after years of wasted time.

Roy.


----------



## woodbloke (17 Jun 2008)

Some great tips here on setting up a woody, particularly on honing and setting the iron. Make sure also that the sole is flat by tapping in the iron _below_ :wink: the sole, upend the plane in the vice and shoot with a long metal plane. The mouth on a traditional woody ought to be fairly big, around 2mm as they were designed to take of shavings about as thick as a leather belt :shock: If the mouth has grown too big through constant use it's quite easy to re-mouth them, simply rout out a bit in front of the cutter and fit in a bit of beech, then shoot the leading edge of the insert to obtain the mouth needed. I always have a decent woodie in the 'shop and use it if I have a largish amount of stuff to take off by hand before using metal planes, blade ground to a decent camber BTW - Rob


----------



## bugbear (17 Jun 2008)

neilyweely":1dxkhrpu said:


> The iron was covered in rust. Some of the rust was so bad it has left some bad pitting. What I did was to use a wire brush mounted in a cordless drill, which I know was lazy of me, but to rub down with wire wool would've taken an age.



I would recommend 320-400 grit SiC (AKA wet 'n' dry) on a flat sanding block for this. Goes pretty fast, surprisingly.

BugBear


----------



## bugbear (17 Jun 2008)

neilyweely":3ob3erx8 said:


> At the top of the iron it looks as if whoever has whacked it a few times with a hammer, probly to stop it movin!! As a result it has got a rather large lip now, and I am wondering what to do with it?



No - this was normal adjustment, using a hammer to increase the protrusion of the iron (i.e. depth of cut).

You can either use a file to tidy up the top of the iron (which is soft and fileable), or leave it, since your adjustment will cause the same result, given time.

BugBear


----------



## woodbloke (17 Jun 2008)

BB wrote:


> You can either use a file to tidy up the top of the iron (which is soft and fileable), or leave it, since your adjustment will cause the same result, given time.


Unless of course you contact Philly and order one of his rather nice woodie tapometers - Rob


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

The iron on your plane appears to tapered in thickness Neil as all good wedged irons tended to be. 
When taking thick shavings this prevents the iron from moving back, as any rearward movement then wedges it tighter. 
Most old irons do show damage from hammers unfortunately, and the Japanese planes are designed for that. 
British planes are not! 
British planes are designed to be adjusted with one of Philly's type of mallets, and the only time the iron would be struck is to perhaps tap it sideways to square it at the mouth 
Wooden planes with a narrow mouth are capable of producing the finest shavings and finish. 
Either buy one of Philly's tapometers, or make your own, then study Philly's video on how to adjust them. 

Roy.


----------



## Philly (17 Jun 2008)

Here's the video link for you, Neil.
Cheers
Philly


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

Let's know how you go Neil. If I can do it, you can do it!

Roy.


----------



## bugbear (17 Jun 2008)

Digit":3ngp1paf said:


> Wooden planes with a narrow mouth are capable of producing the finest shavings and finish.



And wooden jack planes with a thick blade are capable of REALLY shifting material ;-)

BugBear


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

> And wooden jack planes with a thick blade are capable of REALLY shifting material


 
As an ex-apprentice I can verify that and thank the God of machines for affordable planers and thicknessers! 

Roy.


----------



## neilyweely (17 Jun 2008)

have spent the day making a cubicle for a toilet in a curry house!!!!

So, the plane may be ok. I think I will leave her as she is for the time being at least, and see how she goes. I will watch and learn from philly's video later on this evening when I am clean again, need to catch my breath first.

Guys what would I do without y'all?? Am gonna get some use from this plane, and, in spite of what digit says about planer/thicknesser's I remain unconvinced. I have a thicknesser, a ryobi one which suits at the moment, and I certainly prefer the soft sound of a hand plane to the bump and whirr of the thicknesser- and I'm not entirely convinced you get better results with a thicknesser either.

Am considering stripping her back totally, and trying to square it all off. Is this a good idea, or should I leave well alone?

The bottom as flat, but the corners leading from the bottom up the sides are rounded off, and am wondering if they should be a right angle?

Whaddya think men?

Neil


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

Don't mistake me Neil, I prefer hand work to using machines, quiet, dust free more satisfying. But planing a large rough board by hand down to finishing size is damned hard work and not my idea of fun. 
I finish plane by hand as Norm's wide belt sander is never gonna achieve the same finish as my wooden planes. 

Roy.


----------



## neilyweely (17 Jun 2008)

funny that, public conventional wisdom is that you plane then sand, but you are right, my number 4 leaves the sander standing.

Digit - what should I do with the wedge thing, should I rub it back?
It seems ok, just covered in shat. Think I might. But only if you tell me it's ok. That way if it goes wrong I can blame you, and I am not accountable!!!

thanks mate

neil (still stinkin of madras!)


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

Before I did anything to it I would check its fit into the cheeks and against the iron. If it's a lousy fit you might end up having to make another one anyway.

Roy.


----------



## neilyweely (17 Jun 2008)

ok digit

I am gonna do a job on it in the morning and then i will check in with you.
what do you think of varnishing it? Good idea, or not?

Anyroad, you have been a real help, so far. Did I tell you I got it for a quid???


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2008)

The traditional finish has always been boiled Linseed oil, Beech tends to soak it up like a sponge. This prevents moisture being absorbed and helps stabilize the wood. 
If that has been so treated I very much doubt that varnish would even stick!. Also the varnish would soon vanish from the sole allowing moisture in. 
My advise would be to stick with the tried and proven remedy, makes the plane slide better as well. 

Roy.


----------



## bugbear (18 Jun 2008)

neilyweely":3nwjy013 said:


> Am considering stripping her back totally, and trying to square it all off. Is this a good idea, or should I leave well alone?



Easy decision to defer.
[/quote]

The bottom as flat, but the corners leading from the bottom up the sides are rounded off, and am wondering if they should be a right angle?
[/quote]

For a jack, a flat (and square) bottom is optional, to a degree.

The round corners are just signs of wear. I'd prefer to keep depth in the body, rather than remove enough sole to make the corners neat.

For the moment, I'd concentrate on the blade and wedge.

Oh, and if you're considering finishes, keep any wax or oil OFF THE WEDGE!

BugBear


----------



## neilyweely (22 Jun 2008)

you know what, its amazing how stupid a supposed educated, qualified man can be. Now you've told me it stands to reason that you wouldn't, but I was so close to rubbing it back and varnishing the wedge. Prob is that it's covered in some weird dark varnish stuff, that looks God awful.

What do you suggest Bugbear? Bloody hell, I need a guide! I think I'm gonna rub it back and linseed oil it. I reckon thats the best thing for it.

Unless you tell me otherwise. Wood is ok by itself, eh? I mean, the wedge will be ok with nothing on, won't it? 

I don't know if it is Beech, but it looks like it may be. It isn't oak.

So, unless you object for a reason other than aesthetics that is what I shall do. Tonight.

Thanks folks

Neil


----------



## Digit (22 Jun 2008)

I use boiled Linseed oil and not found any problems.

Roy.


----------



## plover22 (1 Nov 2011)

Hi Guys I am a newbie and this is my first post so bear with me if I mess up.

I think the other posters are right, I have just bought a very nice 1/8" chisel on ebay which is marked Hearnshaw Bros in a similar style.

I have been collecting old tools for years and like to use them as often as possible, I have a similar plane, well used and a little battered but it is a beautiful plane to work with.

I have attached a picture of mine with it's little sister and a couple of my other miniatures, the miniature tools are all made by me, I tried to make the miniature plane look as much like the big one as possible so I did not over finish it, the big one is 17" long and the miniature is 4" long (the pound coin is for scale). The handle on the miniature is a little too small for scale, I will change it when I get the chance.







And yes the miniature works.

I work mostly in metal but have recently tried furniture restoration as another hobby, I run a company that makes blast cleaning equipment for hobbyists like car and motorcycle collectors, I also buy and refurbish houses along with my missus. Restoring is my passion, the worse condition a thing is in the more pleasure there is in restoring it.

Regards

John (Plover22)


----------



## salvage (3 Nov 2011)

From the photo it looks like the wedge has been cut short - leaving the contact area small and only farther up the blade

Try cutting a new wedge,where the taper ends considerably deeper into the block


----------

