# stanley honing guide



## norrie499 (7 Dec 2017)

Hi I was wandering if anyone can help with some info. I recently bought a plane on e-bay and got a Stanley honing guide with it but am not sure how to use it and am not sure if there are parts missing. I've tried to load pictures but am useless at it . The gauge has the following PAT nos 605333 cheers in advance


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## Chris152 (7 Dec 2017)

Is it the one in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSXX0M9_LXU


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## ED65 (7 Dec 2017)

That honing guide is a venerable old thing, very nice to have it bundled with the plane!

It is a very simple device so it could be missing nothing but look like it is, as far as I know this is a complete one for comparison on the Old Hand Tools site. I should probably add that a certain well known/infamous US site that sells old tools has one listed for nearly 200 bucks and calls it "very rare", but I don't think that's at all accurate or realistic!

Now whether you should make use of it is another thing. Sharpening freehand versus with a jig is as you might have seen since you joined a hot-button topic here and I'm not trying to ignite that debate because I feel anyone should use a guide if they want or need to. But this one specifically is perhaps not the easiest type to use, which may be part of the reason it was thrown in with the sale.


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## David C (7 Dec 2017)

It is a useful guide.

Follow the video above!

David


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## Jacob (7 Dec 2017)

ED65":vhkl8w3w said:


> That honing guide is a venerable old thing, very nice to have it bundled with the plane!
> 
> It is a very simple device so it could be missing nothing but look like it is, as far as I know this is a complete one for comparison on the Old Hand Tools site. I should probably add that a certain well known/infamous US site that sells old tools has one listed for nearly 200 bucks and calls it "very rare", but I don't think that's at all accurate or realistic!
> 
> Now whether you should make use of it is another thing. Sharpening freehand versus with a jig is as you might have seen since you joined a hot-button topic here and I'm not trying to ignite that debate because I feel anyone should use a guide if they want or need to. But this one specifically is perhaps not the easiest type to use, which may be part of the reason it was thrown in with the sale.


I've got one and thought it was about the easiest to use - slotted plane irons only. It also allows you to camber the blade.


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## norrie499 (7 Dec 2017)

Hi the one I have is the one in ed65 post and after reading Jacobs reply I can see how it works Thank you all for the infomation (hammer)


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## Woody2Shoes (7 Dec 2017)

I have one somewhere - including the instructions, which I can't find at the moment - here's a pic:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0978/ ... _1000x.jpg

Cheers, W2S


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## norrie499 (7 Dec 2017)

Hi Woody aye that's the one where I went wrong in my thinking was that it was for chisels but all is clear now


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## Jacob (7 Dec 2017)

It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off. 
I wonder what the date was of the patent?


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## AndyT (7 Dec 2017)

Jacob":ck1664tr said:


> It's a good jig for absolute beginners to get the feel of 30º but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
> They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off.
> I wonder what the date was of the patent?



Applied for 1945, granted 1948.

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publica ... &KC=A&ND=4


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## Tasky (8 Dec 2017)

Jacob":1v2663u3 said:


> It's a good jig for absolute beginners *to get the feel of 30º* but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.


TBH, I'm also considering a guide/jig for my chisel/iron/blade, for ^this exact reason - I've tried freehand so far, but checking the angles afterward it looks like they're all too far on the wrong side of 25º for my liking.


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## bugbear (8 Dec 2017)

Jacob":330adzx3 said:


> They aren't very common - they are from before the craze really took off.


From my experience of rummaging in boxes at car boot sales and attending autions for 20 years (wow, is it that long) I'd say they're pretty common, although the commonest jig is the excellent Eclipse 36, which I'd say outnumbers it (and all others) around 8:1.

BugBear


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2017)

Tasky":2siekyw2 said:


> Jacob":2siekyw2 said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good jig for absolute beginners *to get the feel of 30º* but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
> ...


Supposed to be 30º.


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

Tasky":1nk1pzxx said:


> Jacob":1nk1pzxx said:
> 
> 
> > It's a good jig for absolute beginners *to get the feel of 30º* but you'd quickly move on and just go freehand.
> ...


What are you considering the wrong side of 25°?

You're probably well familiar with this already but for anyone who isn't, chisels for different purposes are commonly honed at different angles. General bench chisels are often done just like is usual for plane irons, i.e. somewhere in the region of 30° which is what you get resting on the 25° grind angle and then "lift a bit". But paring chisels are generally shallower, occasionally under 20°. And mortise chisels often steeper, sometimes at 40° or higher.

Anyway, if your chisels are decent quality and you're commonly achieving say 23° that might be all right. It you get edge failures at that angle is very easy to hone an edge a smidge higher if need be, much harder to lower the angle again!

Oh P.S. instead of a honing guide proper you might find you get what you're seeking by making a simple 'takeoff ramp' sawn to the angle you want to use. You just rest the chisel/plane iron on this at the start of the stroke and move off.


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## Tasky (8 Dec 2017)

Jacob":cba58pg8 said:


> Supposed to be 30º.


Err... I know. 



ED65":cba58pg8 said:


> What are you considering the wrong side of 25°?


_Less_ than 25º and nowhere near the 30º I was trying for. 



ED65":cba58pg8 said:


> You're probably well familiar with this already but for anyone who isn't, chisels for different purposes are commonly honed at different angles.


I have heard this and may well end up doing so one day... but for now, for my first two sets of proper chisels, I feel I should at least try to get within a couple degrees of the standard 30º before I start introducing all manner of different angled sets for specific tasks. :wink: 
Walk before I go running, sort of thing.


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

Not to worry, shallower is good so this is easily rectified. You can hone a tiny bevel at the correct angle without any difficulty (and in case it's a concern, your chisels shouldn't be materially weaker despite there being less steel behind the edge).

Pick something you have now, and:


Rest the current bevel you've created on your stone/plate/paper and just lift the back up a little. This will present just the edge to the abrasive.
Stroke a few times. That's enough to produce a small secondary bevel, even on slow-cutting oilstones. 
Back off the blade, then do a couple more alternating swipes on bevel and back. 
Check the wire edge is gone, strop if you have a strop and you're done.

For the future, a small alternation in your stance might be enough to hone more steeply. You may be reaching out too far from your torso currently, try honing closer to your belly. Or on a lower surface if one is available.


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2017)

Tasky":2i1ev2z8 said:


> Jacob":2i1ev2z8 said:
> 
> 
> > Supposed to be 30º.
> ...


You need to get into _visualising_ 30º. Try and see it as half of the internal angle of an equilateral triangle, or a third of a right angle, or a gradient of 1/2 (1 vertical 2 up the slope). Draw it out on a piece of paper - have a card or a board with it drawn on, and so on.
I wouldn't bother about other angles - the need is largely mythological. You _do_ need a sharp edge but nobody needs 20º (unless you are a barber!).


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## Tasky (8 Dec 2017)

Jacob":38dv4kr0 said:


> You need to get into _visualising_ 30º. Try and see it as half of the internal angle of an equilateral triangle, or a third of a right angle, or a gradient of 1/2 (1 vertical 2 up the slope). Draw it out on a piece of paper - have a card or a board with it drawn on, and so on.


Sounds awfully complicated and a bit like Buddhist meditation... I just got a protractor out and measured it along the side of a bit of wood!! :lol: 



ED65":38dv4kr0 said:


> You can hone a tiny bevel at the correct angle without any difficulty.


TBH, that might have been part of the problem - I think I've ended up with a slightly convex bevel. Not a massive problem trying a reset or anything, as these are the cheap Lidl chisels anyway. 



ED65":38dv4kr0 said:


> For the future, a small alternation in your stance might be enough to hone more steeply. You may be reaching out too far from your torso currently, try honing closer to your belly. Or on a lower surface if one is available.


I used a workmate on its lowest setting, which was already a mistake as my lower back will testify! #-o (hammer)


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

I going to challenge Jacob here to take two chisels, ideally the same size but if he doesn't have any duplicates say a 1/2" and a 3/4" so they're fairly close together in size, and hone one to 20° and the other to 40° and compare how they do at paring and chopping deep mortises in oak or a wood harder than that. 

He'll find out the only way he'll accept that a difference in performance between the two is anything but "mythological".

And the great thing about this is he can't use any excuses like it would take him too long, hasn't he said a million times how quick and easy freehanding is, how nobody needs a grinder? So manually forming a new 20° bevel won't take him but a few minutes and minimal effort 8)


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

Tasky":21640zm9 said:


> I think I've ended up with a slightly convex bevel.


Slightly convex is no problem, it won't interfere with adding a secondary bevel. 



Tasky":21640zm9 said:


> I used a workmate on its lowest setting, which was already a mistake as my lower back will testify! #-o (hammer)


Ah okay, well definitely not anything lower than that!


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2017)

ED65":1x74zzp8 said:


> I going to challenge Jacob here to take two chisels, ideally the same size but if he doesn't have any duplicates say a 1/2" and a 3/4" so they're fairly close together in size, and hone one to 20° and the other to 40° and compare how they do at paring and chopping deep mortises in oak or a wood harder than that.
> 
> He'll find out the only way he'll accept that a difference in performance between the two is anything but "mythological".
> 
> And the great thing about this is he can't use any excuses like it would take him too long, hasn't he said a million times how quick and easy freehanding is, how nobody needs a grinder? So manually forming a new 20° bevel won't take him but a few minutes and minimal effort 8)


20º is really difficult to start and to maintain because of the amount of metal you have to remove (longer bevel), and also fragile. Can't say I've ever felt the need. I've done paring chisels down to 25º.
40º I've never done either - even less need!
I tend to do everything at 30º, with convex bevel.


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

So that's a no then? Despite how easy and effortless freehanding is? <hint hint>


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## Tasky (8 Dec 2017)

Well I'll have 9 or 10 chisels to try and take from 23-ishº back to around 30º, along with a No 4½ cutting iron and maybe more if Santa-Wife decides I've been a good boy this year.... so when I manage it, I'll tell you how quick and easy it was(n't)!


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## ED65 (8 Dec 2017)

Remember you don't have to re-form the bevel. Find the edge on your finest honing surface, lift a bit, take a few strokes. That's all it takes to create a steeper bevel. It'll get larger and larger with each subsequent honing but it doesn't have to be more than a fraction of a mil wide to begin with.


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2017)

ED65":396z0n4q said:


> So that's a no then? Despite how easy and effortless freehanding is? <hint hint>


Hint hint - freehand is dead easy if you stick to sensible bevels. 20º bloody difficult whatever method you use.


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2017)

Tasky":2tkuyqxp said:


> Well I'll have 9 or 10 chisels to try and take from 23-ishº back to around 30º, along with a No 4½ cutting iron and maybe more if Santa-Wife decides I've been a good boy this year.... so when I manage it, I'll tell you how quick and easy it was(n't)!


Just do each one as and when you need to use it. Use them at 23º ish as long as you can - it'll only take a quick dab to sharpen a bit steeper and closer to 30º. Very easy - no need to make a marathon out of it!


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## ED65 (11 Dec 2017)

Like busses!







Never seen one for sale over here either online or in the wild, then yesterday these were listed on our equivalent of Gumtree.


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## D_W (11 Dec 2017)

Jacob":28fcbtcr said:


> ED65":28fcbtcr said:
> 
> 
> > So that's a no then? Despite how easy and effortless freehanding is? <hint hint>
> ...



If you think about it, grinding any iron well freehand at near vertical or near horizontal levels is difficult. 

Somewhere in the high 20s to low 30s is about the easiest angle to maintain. The iron doesn't want to lay flat while you're grinding, and it won't try to roll. like it will if you're too steep. It's a position of natural ease (high 20s to low 30s) that is very handy for sharpening tools that are intended to do a significant amount of work in return for the smallest amount of sharpening effort.


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2017)

D_W":hst9wozz said:


> Jacob":hst9wozz said:
> 
> 
> > ED65":hst9wozz said:
> ...


Yep.
And 30º is a very easy angle to guess fairly accurately.


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## D_W (12 Dec 2017)

You've been doing this a lot longer than me. I have seen a lot of "instruction" stating that you can't have sharp or any consistency without a guide, which is poo. Sharp is more about learning to manage the edge, especially the wire edge at lower grits. 

I measured my bevels on a couple of irons a few years ago when someone asked what angle I sharpen to. I don't know, I didn't measure by angle, I just adjusted as you and everyone else would have until I could find an angle that held up well but wasn't too steep. All of the irons that I measured were around 32-33, chisels a bit less. None of my irons was more than one degree different than another.

Another thing that drives me up a wall is the discussion of "level of sharpness needed". "Maybe you can work with a washita, but it's not good enough for me". 

Oh, ta ta!....I must not be in such an exclusive group as the 7 step 10 minute sharpeners.


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