# Fitting an Oak worktop.



## pren (15 Mar 2010)

Hi all.

Just about finished fitting some kitchen units. The clients have bought an oak worktop and have asked for a 45* corner joint. I've done mason mitre joints before but not a 45* one. I'd imagine it's a lot more straight forward but I want to make sure I've got my head around it before I go butchering some wood.

The units are in an L shape, approximately 1500 by 1200. I intend on cutting the 1500 length first, scribing this to the long wall. Next, I'm going to cut the 1200 length and scribe this to the shorter wall.

For the mitre, I'm going to measure the width of the worktop (X). I'm then going to mark 'X' down from the end along the front edge. I'll join 'X' up with the corner that is to be mitred. This will give me a 45* angle.

I'll cut this angle with my circular saw, with the worktop upside down, starting from the front edge. I'll put this mitred section in place on the units before laying the shorter section of worktop in it's place, overlapping the long length with an offcut under the end to keep it level. I'll then use the already mitred section as a template to mark the corresponding cut line on the shorter section as the walls are out of square. 

The two sections will then be joined with worktop bolts.

Does this sound right or am I totally lost? Does it even make sense? :-s :lol:


Also, apparently there is a fitting pack that includes some 'expansion joints'. Am I right in thinking that these are basically the same 'buttons' that are used to fix table tops to aprons?


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## joiner_sim (15 Mar 2010)

I've done this before and what you've wrote sounds about right. The other option to cutting with a circular saw is of course the router folllowing the line of a straight edge. When I did this I set up a jig for a vertical wall/ panel saw, to cut on the 45degree. Then using a template routered out the underneath of the worktop for the bolts.


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## MickCheese (15 Mar 2010)

Why do they want 45deg? It wastes wood and IMHO looks poor.

Mick


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## zeppfly (15 Mar 2010)

hi pren, if it were me i'd scribe both sides first then sit one on top of the other, as you said, now where the two pieces intersect at the front is the start of your angle. this way there is less chance for error if the two tops end up different widths after scribing.
hope this helps 
graeme


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## pren (15 Mar 2010)

Thanks for the replies.

I think they want a 45* because they say like the way the staves in the worktop go around the corner. 

Personally I'd much rather do a mason mitre but them's the boss. A few biscuits along the joint should help hold the sections in line?

Laying both sections on top of each other and marking the intersection sounds like a good idea. Does this idea still work if the walls are out of square? I'm trying to picture the geometry of it but I can't quite see if it'll work or not.

As regards cutting, I'll cut the mitres to within 5mm or so of the line with my circular saw and then clean up with my router. Mine will take a 9ish mm bit so it should do it with a few shallow passes, guided by a straightedge.


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## chippy1970 (15 Mar 2010)

i agree with Mick why does the customer want a 45 its the wrong way to do it and wont look good.


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## Max Power (15 Mar 2010)

DO NOT mitre wooden worktops. The mitres are guaranteed to open if there is any movement in the wood at all. The correct procedure is to butt the joints and clamp or if the worktop has a face moulding ,mitre this and butt the rest. Masons mitre but not as deep as formed by worktop jigs


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## zeppfly (15 Mar 2010)

yes it will work for out of square corners, this is excactly the reason for using this method. i've never met a 90 degree corner yet.
graeme[/quote]


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## Mattty (15 Mar 2010)

Alan Jones":2rmwaz94 said:


> DO NOT mitre wooden worktops. The mitres are guaranteed to open if there is any movement in the wood at all. The correct procedure is to butt the joints and clamp or if the worktop has a face moulding ,mitre this and butt the rest. Masons mitre but not as deep as formed by worktop jigs



100% agree


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## JonnyD (15 Mar 2010)

Mattty":3ciehy5d said:


> Alan Jones":3ciehy5d said:
> 
> 
> > DO NOT mitre wooden worktops. The mitres are guaranteed to open if there is any movement in the wood at all. The correct procedure is to butt the joints and clamp or if the worktop has a face moulding ,mitre this and butt the rest. Masons mitre but not as deep as formed by worktop jigs
> ...



99.9 % agree. 

cheers

jon


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## BradNaylor (16 Mar 2010)

Like the other guys, I'm not keen on the idea of mitring kitchen worktops and would just butt joint them with biscuits/doms and connector bolts and rout the edge treatment in situ.

If the client was adamant however, and I had a Festool plunge saw and guide rail, I'd probably give it a bash.

Your methodology sounds fine to me. I'd definitely use dominos on the tight setting as well as bolts to stop any lateral movement across the joint, though.

Cheers
Brad


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## jasonB (16 Mar 2010)

As the others say don't mitre. either the joint will open or if the joint stays tight the whole two worktops will either close up or open up as the wood moves (basic trig, as the front to back width changes the angle changes) Did this countertop with mitres and it moved about 10mm at the hatch end, they are 40mm tops with an 80mm downstand

Use a straight butt joint not a masons mitre, again the small mitred section at the front will open up. (how you going to do a masons joint if your router only takes a 9mm bit??)

If you reaqlly must mitre (or just trim the ends)then router against a straight edge to remove the last 3mm or so.

Don't forget to give them a week or two to adjust to the house humidity and give the bottoms a couple of coats of oil as well as the tops before bolting up and fixing down

Jason


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## zeppfly (16 Mar 2010)

Don't forget to give them a week or two to adjust to the house humidity and give the bottoms a couple of coats of oil as well as the tops before bolting up and fixing down

Jason[/quote]

i'll second that


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## pren (16 Mar 2010)

Thanks again for all the replies!  

Based on this I'm going to strongly suggest to the clients that a mitre is a bad idea, then.

When a straight butt joint is mentioned instead of a masons mitre, does this just have the worktop sections butted together with no routing? Not sure if i'm missing something.

I've not seen the worktop but I think it's got a small bevel on the upper front edge. Will this need removing? I'm assuming I take 10mm or so off the edge to be jointed? 

JasonB: I've got a 12 x 40mm cutter that fits my 9mm collet. I've used it on a worktop before. took a while, mind! :roll: :lol:


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## jasonB (16 Mar 2010)

If the worktop has any form of corner moulding you need to remove this so a shallow version of the cut you get with a kitchen worktop jig is what you want 5-10mm. You can do it with a router and straight edge and just do the 45deg bit by hand.

Don't see many 9mm collets must be a metric version of a 3/8" 

Also don't glue the joint as it won't allow for movement. I like to oil the underside, edges and top at least twice then join with bolts and silicone and then a couple more coats of oil

Jason


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## speed (16 Mar 2010)

as said its a bad idea, but sometimes you have to do as the customer asks :roll: 

if they insist on a mitre write some form of disclamer so you have no combacks when the wood moves


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