# Wadkin AGS 10 saw restore help needed



## icejohn (25 Sep 2020)

Hi all new member here, can anyone pm their number so I can have chat about how to approach this. Need some tips etc.

Thanks in advance.

Regards John


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## topchippyles (25 Sep 2020)

Welcome to the forum john and if you take some photos it will help so the guys can see it.


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## MusicMan (25 Sep 2020)

Yes, it does depend on which model you have.


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## icejohn (25 Sep 2020)

Am not great with photos plus any colour would well show up as badly rusted saw. So after some digging and looking is a WADKIN *AGS 10*


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## MusicMan (25 Sep 2020)

I strongly recommend that you learn about posting pics or the help we can give is strictly limited. Colour is not important. Besides, pictures of a restored old saw is how you thank people for their help .

The first thing you need to do is download the AGS10 manuals from the Wadkin library, and study them. Wadkin AGS 250 300 350 Sawbench. Then you need to identify your saw, whether it is the older or newer style. The easiest way to tell is with the riving knife. If it raises and lowers when you raise or later the blade (the manual will tell you how to do this) then it is newer style, otherwise it is older style. We could tell you from the shape of the cabinet if you posted a picture.

In the absence of pictures, please describe the condition.


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## ManowarDave (26 Sep 2020)

Hi icejohn,

I did a restoration on an older AGS10 the other year. You can see it here.
My new old Wadkin 10 AGS

My basic approach was take the entire thing to pieces, clean, refurb and rebuild.

Have a gander and I'll try and answer any further questions you may have.

Dave


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## icejohn (26 Sep 2020)

Thanks for the replies both. Wish I had a riving knife it didn't come with one. So can't confirm if it goes up or down. Pretty scared taking it appart if I am honest without some phone numbers to call when it goes wrong lol hence my first post.

Got manuals off their website man of war. A simple question is what oil is the modern equivalent? The grease I have found on eBay as the seller 400g Shell Gadus S2 V100 3 Grease (Alvania RL3/Alvania Grease 3) has the older named grease and the modern one.

Power m 125 is the oil old name but can't find it?

Will read your restore post,


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## ManowarDave (26 Sep 2020)

Hi icejohn,

My own saw came sans riving knife. Towards the end of the thread I posted CAD drawings of the riving knives for both old and new versions after kind members of this forum posted dimensioned images. I had one made by a local laser cutting company. Cost about £20.

The machines are pretty simple. It's part of what makes them so robust so don't be scared by it. It's mostly just graft getting it cleaned up.

It would be great if you could post a couple of pics to see where you are starting from.

Re grease, I swapped out the old bearings in the motor for 2zz type so they would not need greasing. As for the rest of the contact moving parts I used a teflon based spray lubricant called GT85. A lost less prone to gathering sawdust and creating a horrible stodgy mess. I just give everything a quick spray every so often.

Dave

Edited to correct bearing type.


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## MusicMan (26 Sep 2020)

If you can get a picture as follows, we can tell you the model. Take off the insert around the blade (just lift it) and take off the blade (left hand thread!), Take a pic including the spindle where the blade attaches and include the region inside the saw at the back of the blade.

You MUST include a riving knife and crown guard in your restoration, for safety's sake. Yes you see lots of YouTube from the USA without these. Also, thousands of fingers are amputated by saws in the USA.


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## icejohn (27 Sep 2020)

Hi guys here are a couple of pics. First ones are how it was arrived rusty as...orange Fanta. Then I did some sanding on the cast iron top and was very surprised by what some elbow electric..grease can do 240 grit silcon carbide paper and wd40 cleaned it up so no more Fanta colour rust shows up when I go over with the sander. Finshed pic is the next post.


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## icejohn (27 Sep 2020)

Here is the after pic. Many thanks Dave loved reading you orginal post , makes repairs look like art.


Music man , Am definitely looking to get a riving knife made and fitted when i know how to. I tried removing the aluminum steel cover near the saw blade it wouldnt budge so am scratching head a bit, i didnt want to put too much pressure on it.


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## ManowarDave (27 Sep 2020)

Hi John,

To lift the aluminium plate by the blade, if you'll pardon the expression, just stick your finger in the round hole and pull up. The only thing that will be holding it in place will be rust or old sawdust.

Dave


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## MusicMan (27 Sep 2020)

Thanks for the pics, that should come up well. You can get going with WD40 and wire wool on the table and mitre slots. If the aluminium insert is really stuck, give it a light hammer tap from underneath. Access is near the motor, but watch you don't cut yourself on the blade. That might be a 12" blade in there (which is possible). You have got a relatively rare single phase model.


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## icejohn (28 Sep 2020)

Hi dave. Finally got the aluminium plate up....had to use brute force with a big screwdriver . Turns out spider Web is bloody stong must have been a 100 webs holding it down. 

Only joking there is alot of old webs but the aluminium plate has small steel iron screws underneath to help with placement I guess. These had rusted onto the cast iron corner recesses at least that how I see them as. 

I have attached a pic of where some bolts are for the riving knife hopefully? Can anyone confirm if it's a old riving knife design I need or the newer design.?


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## ManowarDave (28 Sep 2020)

Hi John,

Well done. Yes, those two bolts hold the riving knife. Definitely the older fixed style.

Dave


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## Fitzroy (28 Sep 2020)

Yup older style saw, very close in manufacture to mine if serial numbers are sequential, mine is within 100 of yours, zoom in to see my serial number.


It also has a one piece raise arm and arbour, rather than the later model where tarbour bolts to the arm.



I have the original riving knife and guard if you need a picture for reference anytime.

Great saw to work on, easy to take apart and rebuild. Arbor bearings are 62032RS then you need some shims as well but all in about £15 to replace. rubbish gets in the worm gears causing rise and fall and tilt to be slow.

have fun.

fitz.


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## icejohn (1 Oct 2020)

hi guys as usual , thank for the replies. I havnt actually got to the stage working out if the bearings are shot as the saw disc and nut that holds it on appear to be "one rust" as the regga song goes. So am drowning it in wd 40 and hoping it loosens up in a few days. Am also trying to find a set of whitworth sockets to get a better grip than my ajusting spanner.

i have found a post a about bearing for wadkin 12 inch would the bearing be the same on both the ags 10 and 12 models. the bearings he recommends was skf 6206 - 2z he doesnt mention any shims so i figured that has to be the better option? in the event i need new bearings.


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## Fitzroy (1 Oct 2020)

Don’t think the AGS 12 and 10 use the same bearings. The original AGS 10 bearings are 6203ff or 88503 bearings, with a wider inner race of 16.6mm compared with the 12mm outer race. The 6203 bearings have a 12mm inner and outer race so you need 2.3mm of shims on either side of the inner race to makeup to 16.6mm. Getting the original bearings is possible but expensive. You can see the arbor breakdown in the photo below.


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## icejohn (3 Oct 2020)

ok managed to get the saw blade off using a rubber mallet piece of wood and a star screwdriver acting as a leaver into a "hole" that was in a circular disc next to the blade. This circular bit is badly rusted but i cant see how to remove it. (there was actually 2-3 holes in this 1cm thick cirular bit so i assume the holes are for the purpose of blade removal. Please can somone confirm? There was NO obvious place to fit a small thin spanner that i have seen on other rip saws on youtube.

cleaned up the round handles for blade ajustment . All that was needed was some light sand paper to remove the rust. I wiped them over with 3 in oil. I am thinking candle wax might be better? protection?


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## SammyQ (3 Oct 2020)

That circular three hole thingy is for holding the arbour steadyvto get the nut off. You place a screwdriver or C spanner in the holes. 

Sam


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## icejohn (5 Oct 2020)

Update, managed to get the motor off and onto my foot... after some merry words reckon its not brokem, the motor that is. Ok so looking at the belt inside,, only one belt was on and bearly at that, and its apparant that i need 3. So the existing belt that was on there is a made in uk optibelt-vb z622 LD / 10x600 Li 24
Also has a 4040 going horizontally in very small writing elsewhere on the belt.

So looking around to buy, i cant find that belt and apprently according to dave = angle , stiffness , radial and other stuff is important.
Anyway german ebay seem to have them for sale... i would rather source a uk place.


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## ManowarDave (5 Oct 2020)

Hi John,

You will need an spz 10x8 profile. The length will depend on the motor size and the distance between the two pulleys but from the number above it looks like a spz612 will be close. Longer than the ones in mine but you have a single phase motor which will probably have a bigger frame size.

SPZ612 Major Brand SPZ-Section V-Belt Simply Bearings Ltd

Best to measure the outside length of the existing belt and compare. There is some adjustment in the motor mounting to account for stretch etc.

Dave


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## ManowarDave (5 Oct 2020)

Hi John,

Scrap my last reply. I had to look through old email receipts from the time to find the belt and looked at the wrong one.

The belt profile was z not spz.

The belts I bought for the Wadkin were z21.5 (10x546Li).

I still think your belts are longer bu the number you found.

I got mine from BearingsRus.co.uk. less than £2 each.

Dave


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## icejohn (1 Nov 2020)

Slight update managed to get the top cast iron off. Really really tight spaced bolts Right in the corners. Couldnt get a socket to fit over the top. 15mm bolts for ref. Anyway ordered crowfoot set of spanners. Top tip even the correct sized spanner couldn't fit into the space around the corner so had to try a bigger crows foot think 17 and used the pincher front jaws to try turn the nut. This worked omce loose could get the off with fingers. 

When I put stuff back together I can't afford for these to rust seize. Blow torch in a confined space doesn't bare thinking about. I have a light lithium Granville grease would this be OK. Read somewhere copper grease is bad for cast iron stuff. 

More rust needs cleaning up but yeah finally access to the insides.


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## icejohn (1 Nov 2020)

Does anybody know where to find shim washers 22mm outside diameter. 10mm inner and 1mm thick. Or 0.8mm to be exact. I tried working the measurements in imperial but they don't translate to 3/8 Wentworth shim washer etc. 

So just putting it out there as need 3 for the table cast iron before fitting it back on.


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## ManowarDave (1 Nov 2020)

Hi John,

Try M10 penny washers.

Dave


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## icejohn (1 Nov 2020)

yeah might have to buy some, they just a bit thicker than i would like , might put them on a sander get the thichness down a bit.

i found some stainless steel ones but the guy in the shop reckoned against putting them on as well as zinc coated , as cast iron due to corrasion electrical differential something like that.


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## icejohn (1 Nov 2020)

icejohn said:


> Update, managed to get the motor off and onto my foot... after some merry words reckon its not brokem, the motor that is. Ok so looking at the belt inside,, only one belt was on and bearly at that, and its apparant that i need 3. So the existing belt that was on there is a made in uk optibelt-vb z622 LD / 10x600 Li 24
> Also has a 4040 going horizontally in very small writing elsewhere on the belt.
> 
> So looking around to buy, i cant find that belt and apprently according to dave = angle , stiffness , radial and other stuff is important.
> Anyway german ebay seem to have them for sale... i would rather source a uk place.




i ordered some dunlop white flash belts z24 10x610 li635 Lp and 59053 on them, they are a bit longer then the orginals but seem like they will fit. (these belts were cheap £1.80 around there.


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## icejohn (11 Jul 2021)

hi guys ,, i have left this project for a bit and back on it, due to covid isolation. i have actually also been removing as much rust a possible off all the small part on the inside of the saw. The top cast iron table was removed had to invest in some crows feet spanners and had to use a size up with just the pinchers if that make sence to remove the screw from underneath. This tip is gold and should help someone else out in similar situation.

Ok so my problem now is that the fence is badly rusted to the point of me nearly giving up. i say nearly i havnt yet. But i I need some help please.

The fence fits onto 2 large cast iron bars. I cant take this fence appart. There are 3 large screw on the top which i have removed however the end clamp still appears to be attached to the main leaver clamp by means of some kinda bar going between the fence. I spoke with dave and he said to remove the screw using a screw driver on just under the leaver release of the fance. This appears impossible because of the rust.

Basically i need help trying to take this fence appart please help.


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