# New Project: Built In Cupboard - Design advice needed.



## wizer (2 Jun 2006)

Hi all

After the reasonable success of my conservatory cabinet, a pal has asked me to build her a built in cupboard. This will be my first attempt at something which is truly built in and made to measure. The cupboard is to go into an alcove by the side of a chiminey breast. To make matters more challenging, the alcove also houses a boiler (the reason for building something in there) and has a window protruding to the space.










I have taken some basic measurements and quickly knocked up the following:






My initial thoughts are to use euro hinges for the doors and some sort of jig to make the shelves adjustable. 

hmm, so lots of questions. Because the window protrudes into the alcove (and they want the cupboard to be deeper than the alcove), I have left a small gap between cupboard and wall. All very well but i'm not now sure how to support this side of the cupbaord? Also i'd prefer to not have a central post, so the doors have nothing to close on to. Should I have a fixed shelf at the top and bottom of the middle doors? Will this be ok? What scares me most about this is the fact that they want it in cherry veneer. Is iron on veneer edging a nightmare?

Finally any tips on how to deal with out of true walls, pipes etc, greatly recieved.

If this has been covered elsewhere or a good book can help me, please shove me in the right direction

Sketchup file hereif it's any help. (measurement rough atm)


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## Newbie_Neil (2 Jun 2006)

Hi WiZeR

Have a look at the installation instructions for the boiler as there are minimum clearances for servicing and repairs. You might find this on their web site.

Cheers
Neil


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## matt (2 Jun 2006)

The position of the boiler in relation to the window looks like it is going to call for a fairly imaginative solution!

Can't see your illustration, therefore, forgive me if I am contrary to your current design ideas, however, some random thoughts...

1. Solid Cherry panelled doors instead of veneer? Hinged on a solid Cherry face frame? (perhaps consider vented door panels to aid ventilation).
2. Find out how far out-of-true the walls are and and make the face frame overhang the sides of the carcass and wide enough to scribe in.
3. Build a level plinth in the space first and then mount the carcasses on that.
4. Consider building a cabinet that is deeper and slightly wider than the space and have a return that butts up to the face of the chimney breast.
4. How about building a removable box around the boiler (allowing relevant space) with some deep open shelves (shaped around the boiler box) that float in front of the window if necessary?


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## wizer (2 Jun 2006)

Good point neil I will look into that.

Matt: 

1. Solid Cherry will probably be over budget. These guys are just having a baby and are saving every penny. The point of the cupboard is to prevent baby touching the hot boiler. I will design vents in somewhere. 

2. The word scribe scares me  I'm still in the very early scratching head stage, I guess I need to work out how bad the walls are.

3. There is about 50mm between floor and the bottom of the boiler so a plinth wouldnt really work? Or am I missing the point?

4. My original plans allow for extra depth. The cupboard will protrude about 15cms from the face of the chiminey breast (Luckily this is the clients request).

5. Not sure I'm with you re floating shelves and boxes... 


 

Sorry, this is all new to me :?


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## jasonB (3 Jun 2006)

The iron on edging is not a problem to use, I would show them a sample of the cherry as a lot of "cherry" furniture has a darker stain to it much like cherry that has been out in the light for a long time. Talking of which Cherry will discolour in less than a day if in sunlight, I think you work outside :!: 

I don't like the gap against the window wall, an infill strip set back behind the window reveal will look much neater.

What are they going to put in the cupboard, your shelves may sag as the span is 3-4ft.

When I measure for a job I always take a level with me to check the floor and walls for plumb, a roofing square is also handy for checking the walls are 90 degs.

Will see if I can sketch something as I've done quite a few alcove units and wardrobes.

Jason


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## devonwoody (3 Jun 2006)

I am certain your gasboard reuglations (or whatever they are called) insist that there is adequate inlet ventilation for the boiler (all types) and then bear in mind that sometime in the future the boiler needs servicing or repair so area of boiler must be free of obstructions.

Any grey hair yet?


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## wizer (3 Jun 2006)

jasonB":3h339aal said:


> The iron on edging is not a problem to use, I would show them a sample of the cherry as a lot of "cherry" furniture has a darker stain to it much like cherry that has been out in the light for a long time.



I'll have to get a sample from somewhere. They want it to match some furniture from ikea, which is prety dark.




> Talking of which Cherry will discolour in less than a day if in sunlight, I think you work outside :!:



Yes I do work outside, and have chance of working inside. hmm could be a race to cut it then bring it inside.



> I don't like the gap against the window wall, an infill strip set back behind the window reveal will look much neater.



Genius. So simple, thanks. It will make it look much nicer.



> What are they going to put in the cupboard, your shelves may sag as the span is 3-4ft.



Again, something else i did not consider. I'm not sure but possible toys, etc. So will have to think about ways to get some strength into those shelves.



> When I measure for a job I always take a level with me to check the floor and walls for plumb, a roofing square is also handy for checking the walls are 90 degs.



Next time i'm there i'll take a square and level and check it out.


I need to check out regs for the boiler. Maybe i'll have to resort to building a cupboard in the upper section and some sort of box\grille to go round the boiler.


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## wizer (3 Jun 2006)

devonwoody":6ea0a4hb said:


> Any grey hair yet?



I went grey at 18  :wink:


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## devonwoody (3 Jun 2006)

WiZeR":115huaij said:


> devonwoody":115huaij said:
> 
> 
> > Any grey hair yet?
> ...



She must have been hot!


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## Mike B (3 Jun 2006)

Just to compound the grey hair problem, does the window ledge touch the back of the boiler?? If so how are you going to build the RHS of the cabinet around it?? 



> I need to check out regs for the boiler. Maybe i'll have to resort to building a cupboard in the upper section and some sort of box\grille to go round the boiler


 
Perhaps here you could make a pair of dummy doors for the boiler section in one piece and 
1) if going with a "standard" carcass style - make a pair of dummy doors for the boiler section in one piece and attach it using rare earth magnets instead of hinges 
or 
2) in the case of a face frame, split the face frame into two and attach the upper half with working doors as normal and then have a lower half with fixed dummy doors and again attach it with rare earth magnets (or cleats with bolts into threaded inserts if the space to the LHS of the boiler needs to be accessed with a single working door) 

This way the entire lower half may be removed when the boiler man comes a knocking... 

Mike


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## prawnking (4 Jun 2006)

hi
i am a technical gas engineer for british gas services
stongly advise you check manufacturers installation instructions with regards to clearences ventilation also distances form combustable material

take note that ventilation requirements normally mean free air so what ever vents you get they should state the amount of free air that passes.

also if you r to make your own ventilation bs5440 part 2 states that a vent openings r between 5 and 10mm no more no less vents shouldnt be closable and also shouldnt have a fly screen

best advice would be to vent direct too outside air within as on average you only need half of that reqd of venting to inside air so your cupboard doors would not need any cutting. just make sure you keep clearences for service and repair etc

take care as you could end up contraviening gas safety installation and use regulations which could believe it or not land you in trouble.
any questions feel free to ask
if you give me make model serial and GC number off blr i should be able to find all regs for blr
shaun
ps blr may not need ventilation at all just adequate clearences if efficient enough manf instructions will tell all.


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