# Chest of Drawers



## OPJ (8 May 2009)

Hi guys,

Following the success of the stained-pine Blanket Chest, I've now been asked to look at building a chest of drawers in the same timber and style. Drawer fronts must be inset, not onset, while overlapping the rails but finishing flush (1mm back) with the stiles. It must also be to the same dimensions and same finish. Back panel, at this stage, is a sheet (or two) of 6mm MDF.

Initially, they were looking for a two-by-three, six-drawer configuration but, after my initial SketchUp scrawlings, we agreed on an eight-drawer design as below:







I'm happy with the base, plinth and I'll deal with the drawers later (probably hand-cut dovetails). I'm still scratching my head over some of the constructional details of the main carcase.






I'm hoping to use wooden runners, kickers and drawer rails. As shown, this is a frame and panel construction at both ends, with a central divider (veneered MDF at this point). I can't see how this will work without beefing up the thickness of the stiles (as I've done in the drawing, 38mm thick instead of 19mm). There would be enough material, particularly in the centre, for me to twin-tenon the drawer rails in place.

My biggest concern here is that in beefing up the sections of timber, this is obviously going to cost more money. :roll: As before, we're trying keep the budget fairly low...

So, what would I like to know?

- Frame and panel construction at both ends could create difficulty in fixing the runners. My other thought is to keep the front stiles at 38mm with the rest of the frames at 19mm. Then, I could attach a sheet of 19mm MDF to the inside, which should give me somewhere to fix the runners - what do you think? Can you think of another solution?

- Central dividers are also drawn at 38mm. I was planning to double-up two sheets of 19mm MDF here, to save buying a full sheet of 38mm! I could widen the front lipping to take twin-mortises for the drawer rails. Any other opinions here?

- What do you think about the sizing of the drawer fronts? They're drawn, here, at 172.8mm wide; all equal. I have 691mm between the base and top and have tried working to the Golden Ratio but, I thought the upper drawers looked too narrow... Any other ideas? I don't think I want to fronts to be any wider than they are now. :?


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## Steve Maskery (8 May 2009)

The drawers would look infinitly better if they were graduated in size. There are a number of ways you can do this. The easy one is to have each drawer a fixed difference (eg 25mm) from its neighbour (an arithmetic progression). But my favourite is to use the Hambridge Rectangle method. It can be used as-is, or used to get the heights and then alter the overall width to fit Golden, for example.

If you go to the Design.Click.Buld pages at Taunton, DaveR has a tutorial on it. Modesty prevents me from naming the consultant on the piece.

S


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## mailee (8 May 2009)

As for the runners on the end panels, I would glue the front ends into the stiles and screw the rear end through slots into the rear stiles allowing for movement. Failing that then maybe a loose tennon into the rear stiles to allow for any movement. HTH. :wink:


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## SketchUp Guru (8 May 2009)

Steve Maskery":2u9620qu said:


> If you go to the Design.Click.Buld pages at Taunton, DaveR has a tutorial on it. Modesty prevents me from naming the consultant on the piece.
> 
> S



What? This old thing? My consultant on that is rather shy.


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## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Olly,

I'm rather glad you posted this before you started making it, because I think there are a number of small things that could make a very big difference.

I completely concur on the graduated drawer-size .......and would add that it really helps the look if the bottom drawer is one full width drawer (ie double the size of the ones above) and/or the top drawers are thirds rather than halves.

As this is pine, you aren't going to achieve a sleek modern look...........it just isn't that sort of timber........so why hide the rails? I would certainly be showing them between all the drawers. The plinth is a traditional look, as its the top.......so why the incongrous drawer-front design?

'twere it me, I would use 38 square corner pieces for the side panels, and house my runners into those. You can then fasten the front end of the runners in, and leave the back ends dry in their joint to allow for any movement.

Finally, the central MDF panel is no more than a nuisance. You don't need it structurally (nor do you need a back panel nor a base, so long as you use diagonal corner bracing). By getting rid of the central panel your drawer runners can just be a single piece of timber (not 2) housed into the back of the central stile.

I know you won't see this as criticism! 

Another project for the same client?

Regards

Mike


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## OPJ (9 May 2009)

Thanks for your replies. 

Thanks, Steve and Dave, I really like the Hambridge Rectangle method. I've just re-drawn the fronts and this is how it now looks.






I do believe that this is an improvement and also easier to calculate and draw out than the Golden Ratio! Not sure about that bottom drawer; a piece of softwood roughly 9" wide isn't going to be very stable... I might see if I can reduce that one slightly to widen the others a little. Arithmetic Progression looks like the next avenue I'll have to explore. :wink:

Mike, yes, this is for the same 'client'.  While I do appreciate your views and opinions, a lot of what you've said can be answered by the fact that this is pretty much what the client wants. :roll: 

Do you think you could elaborate a bit more on your latest paragraph (ie. the central divider/stile)? I'm not quite sure of what you mean but, it sounds like it could save some work, weight and money...


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## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

Sure Olly,

at the moment you have a central stile with an MDF board let into the middle of it. Either side of this board is a drawer runner........ie 2 bits of parallel wood, separated only by the MDF.

Remove the MDF and you can make that a single pice of wood, wider, which would span from the rear of the central stile to another stile at the back of the chest. 

You can eliminate the back and the base MDF too. You can only ever see the base with drawers removed, and the back if the furniture is ever moved away from the walls. Little diagoanl corner braces (like you see under chair seats), resolve any racking issues.

Clients? Don't be dictated to by them!!!!! Tell them they are wrong and show them a better way!!  

Mike

PS The Hambridge thing has improved your drawers, but just popped your base drawer over a standard board width.........you might want to start again and have the bottom drawer 220 deep.


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## OPJ (9 May 2009)

Thanks, Mike, that was pretty much what I thought meant anyway. :wink: Just drawn it out in SketchUp and it does appear to work well. I was going to stub-tenon the original runners in to the front rail; I reckon I can do the same here again, leaving the stile alone as this will need mortises for the rails.

What about fixing the wide runners (measuring 102mm - 32mm either side of of 38mm stile) at the back? Notch it around the stile and screw from the sides? Don't mention dowels!! :twisted: I could even notch out some of the stiles but, that sounds like more work and could make final assembly a little complicated... :-k


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## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

OPJ":zzjkl4rc said:


> What about fixing the wide runners (measuring 102mm - 32mm either side of of 38mm stile) at the back? Notch it around the stile and screw from the sides? Don't mention dowels!! :twisted: I could even notch out some of the stiles but, that sounds like more work and could make final assembly a little complicated... :-k



Why so wide Olly?

I would make it ex 75, and if your central stile was ex 38 that should still leave about 18mm each side for the drawer to run on........and that is wider than the drawer side, surely?

This may be sacrilage, but I often run the drawers on runners with rebates into the drawer sides........the runner would then be nowhere near the rails between the drawers.

Mike


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## OPJ (9 May 2009)

I like the proportion of a 38mm stile, so it is in keeping with the thickness of the outer legs. Good point on the width of the runners; I was only working on 32mm because that's what we've been doing at college recently. I am concerned about possible wear over time with softwood drawer sides and runners... To play it safe, I'll probably go with ex.100mm stock - which is still going to leave about 28mm for the runners anyway (25mm should be plenty for 12mm sides). 

What do people think about *drawer bottoms* - would 6mm veneered MDF be enough? Could I get away with 4mm? I will add a central muntin for extra support anyway.


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## JonnyD (9 May 2009)

For drawer bottoms I usually use 6mm veneered one sided ply as it is cheaper than veneered MDF and just as strong. If you want to add a central muntin you could make this out of hardwood and have a hardwood central runner rather than the 2 side runners you have at the moment. This method gives good alignment of the drawers and eliminates the drawer racking as it is opened and closed. It would also eliminate the problem of fixing the runners to the frame and panel ends.

Jon


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## Joints (9 May 2009)

I would say 6mm not 4. 

Even with a muntin, draws that size which are likely to get crammed full of towels, bedding or whatever it will be would be likely to bend if not break if was only 4mm.

I am liking the look of this so far Olly but come on mate, Im dieing for this workbench build! 


george


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## OPJ (10 May 2009)

Thanks, Mr.Utah , that's clearly something I hadn't considered (don't think I've ever come across a central runner either). This could save some wear on the drawer sides and I imagine it will be relying on the front rails a lot more for support.

What would you do at the back of the carcase, in this situation? Have a rear drawer rail and tenon the central runner in to that? That should also eradicate any need for a back or bracing, I think.  I'd guess it wants to be slightly wider than the muntin.

I'll go with a 6mm base as well, thanks, and will check with Avon Ply regarding the availability of veneered ply.

George, as I said in the PM, check my Blog. :wink:


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## JonnyD (10 May 2009)

Hi Olly

I would put a drawer rail front and back which is tennoned into the corner posts Between this will be 2 front to back rails which will take the runner. The runner could be housed in or just screwed on. The central post can either be screwed to the drawer rails or preferably the drawer rails housed into the central post. There is no need doing it this way for a divider between the carcases but you could put another vertical central post fixed to the back drawer rails for extra strength.

With my limited sketchup skills I produced this which may give you an idea






you shouldnt need any extra bracing at the back. I would screw on a 6mm ply/mdf back

Cheers

Utah


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## woodbloke (11 May 2009)

OPJ":2yy3aec0 said:


> I am concerned about possible wear over time with softwood drawer sides and runners...
> What do people think about *drawer bottoms* - would 6mm veneered MDF be enough? Could I get away with 4mm? I will add a central muntin for extra support anyway.


Olly - drawer runners, kickers and sides ought to be in something hard, oak is usually considered to be best. If the brief is to stick to pine, I'd glue on a 6mm strip to the bottom and top of the drawer sides to act as a 'wear strip' but I'd make runners and kickers from oak as well. Drawer bases would be good from mdf and if you included a cental muntin you could even get away with 3mm hardboard...I did this on a chest of drawers a couple of years ago and it's been fine - Rob


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## OPJ (11 May 2009)

Thanks Rob and Jonny.

Rob, I knew someone would eventually come along and say that! :roll:  I like the thought of gluing on thin strips to keep costs down - I've got loads of beech waste at the moment, surely that would do? :wink:

Dave R has also very kindly sent me some excellent information and drawings on NK-style drawers. I'm torn between that and Jonny's central-runner idea at the moment... :-k


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## woodbloke (11 May 2009)

OPJ":zal2ls3j said:


> Rob, I knew someone would eventually come along and say that! :roll:  I like the thought of gluing on thin strips to keep costs down - I've got loads of beech waste at the moment, surely that would do? :wink:


Olly - beech would be fine I reckon...anything's got to be harder than a pine/pine wear surface - Rob


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## OPJ (11 May 2009)

Thanks, Rob. Being a bit lighter in colour than oak, it should (hopefully!) blend in with the pine a bit more after the staining! (Not that the runners and rails are there to be admired, of course!)  :wink:


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## Mattty (14 May 2009)

Ollie,

I would consider using drawer slips instead of grooving the front and sides. The advantage is 2 fold. Firstly it will increase the surface area of the drawer side where it is in contact with the runner thus reducing wear, secondly generic 'pine' as your aware is prone to movement and a deep drawer bottom groove would only encourage this.

For the drawer bottom i personally would use solid timber for this project- either T&G pine or preferably some Cedar of lebanon.

Good Luck and i hope this helps.


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## BradNaylor (14 May 2009)

Olly,

I would definitely use T&G matching for the drawer bases and cabinet back rather than MDF - it will look far better and more in keeping with the rustic nature of the piece.

I agree with Mike about hiding the drawer rails - I would leave then visible dividing the drawers. 

The drawer runners I would simply screw or glue and pin in place to the stiles. There is simply no need for complex joints and they wil never be seen.

I see no problem with pine on pine drawer runners. Applying oak slips is overkill IMO. 

The sad truth is that a pine chest of drawers will more than likely be in a skip long before the drawers show any sign of wear!

 :lol: 

Cheers
Brad


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## MikeG. (14 May 2009)

If you are thinking of gluing strips to the U/S of the drawers and the top of the runners (unnecessary........a girt dollop of hard wax on the runners will last years), then consider using some of the formica strips that come with kitchen worktops. They should last a while, and have a very low co-efficient of friction.

Mike


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## OPJ (14 May 2009)

Thanks again for your thoughts, guys.  Just when I thought I'd put this design to bed, you've got me loading up SketchUp again... :roll: 

As far as the runners go, I've decided to go with JonnyD's idea on having one central runner with a strip that runs in a slot housed in to the underside of the muntin. I'll probably use beech for these two parts (I have plenty of it!! ). What I like about this is that it'll save the cost of new timber and save me a little work. I won't need any side runners either, except on the bottom drawer.

To be honest, I keep looking at my drawings and something doesn't look right...

I can't decided whether I need to try and squeeze a top rail on to the front or, as you guys keep saying, it's the drawer rails (or, lack of!)... I will raise this one with Pete again. We've have agreed on a slight graduation to the drawer sizes as well. It's subtle. Not as clear cut as the Hambridge method but, it does make a difference.


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## OPJ (14 May 2009)

Drawer Bases and Back Panel...

I do like the idea of using more T&G boarding for the back panel. I was quoted about £25 for a 6mm sheet of pine-veneered MDF - the cost of the necessary redwood cann't be far off that and it would indeed look a lot nicer!  One of the reasons Pete has asked for a back panel is because they want to keep this unit 'versatile'... It'll be going against a wall initially but, they is a good chance it'll get moved around in future.

Not to sure about T&G bases though... When the drawers are full, they simply aren't going to be seen anyway. Sticking with the muntin idea, I would need to create a tongue on the edges of the base to fit in the gooves and keep everything flush - solid timber would definitely have greater strength over MDF there... :-k

Is there a way I could "fake" the V-groove effect without exposing the MDF core? :? Maybe ply would be better.

EDIT - Yes! Thinking about it, I have all sorts of 6mm ply offcuts in the workshop left over from jobs I've been doing with my dad - could be just the job.


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## woodbloke (15 May 2009)

BradNaylor":3jv2t1nj said:


> I see no problem with pine on pine drawer runners. Applying oak slips is overkill IMO.
> 
> The sad truth is that a pine chest of drawers will more than likely be in a skip long before the drawers show any sign of wear!
> 
> ...


Disagree here Brad I'm afeared  I've seen relatively newish pine units that have had a pine/pine wear surfaces that have worn quite a lot, enough to make the drawer sloppy. For want of a short extra process in the making I think that the inclusion of decent hardwearing surfaces has to be included. The other thing is that if I were making the piece, it would irritate me to know that this bit of the job ain't quite as good as it ought to be :x if I left it as pine on pine.
Can you be certain that it'll end up in a skip in a few years?..it might be passed down as a family heirloom, 'specially if Olly puts his 'makers mark' on it and dates it :wink: If it _is_ a piece that's intended to be kept then it's doubly worth the effort to do a decent job of the wearing surfaces...init? - Rob


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## OPJ (15 May 2009)

woodbloke":1v4hrg76 said:


> ...'specially if Olly puts his 'makers mark' on it and dates it :wink:



Thanks for bringing this up, Rob. It's something I really should start doing very soon!  Further on down the line, I'd like to get a proper stamp made up specially. For now though, I reckon a simple set of letter and number punches will do.

...Think of it as a way of _identifying my earlier work_ at auction in years to come!!! 8)  :roll: :wink:


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## OPJ (16 May 2009)

Here we go then! First image shows the drawers as they are currently, hiding the drawers rails while leaving the vertical stiles and dividers about 1mm proud.







This is how the same unit would look with inset drawers.






Not sure whether you can make out the garduation in drawer sizes; it is indeed *very* subtle. But, I do think it's enough to make it 'work'. 

You know, looking at these two images, I find myself leaning towards the first design... :roll: Then again, I'm not sure that SketchUp does the drawer rails any justice on drawing number two. :?


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## big soft moose (17 May 2009)

Just to clarify a few things for the wider audience

we have asked for the drawer stilles to be hidden because we (especially swimbo) think that it will go better with the blanket box (which this will be next to) in this format. 

we also dont want olly to dispense with the back because although it will be against the wall in the current incarnation - it is possible that in the future it might be visible - especially if we decide to have a mostly open plan house when we build. - i agree however that a bae may not be necessary.

and thirdly i can assure everyone that this is not going to wind up in a skip in a few years - the plan is that this "craftsman built" furniture will be with us for the rest of our married life. ( and yes i know hardwoods might be more appropriate for that aspiration but i'm not minted and have asked olly to keep the cost down ).

If we'd wanted something that was only going to last a year or two i'd probably have built it myself (Mdf and screws featuring highly in my construction repertoire)

(swimbo also points out that as she is the "client" for this and the client is always right - and shes a swimbo and as we all know swimbos are always right - therefore this means that this time she's really really right  :lol: )


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## OPJ (18 May 2009)

Thanks for clearing that up, Pete. 

So, there you are, guys. Straight from the horse's (er, _moose's_, actually!) mouth! 

I'm now turning my attention to getting rid of the MDF base. All it needs is some more runners and rails. If there's a chance a small gap may be visible below the bottom edge of the bottom drawer front then, I'll hide that with a cleat fixed to the inside face of the plinth - which will also help secure the carcase to the plinth. 

So, I've gone from having several quotes for sheets of veneered MDF to no longer needing any - thanks, guys!! 8)


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