# Flooring Issue: Help please



## beech1948 (28 Feb 2011)

I'm doing a restoration of an old bungalow. The last thing I thought would be an issue is turning out to be one. The old loo is about to be gutted and replaced...its 50+ yrs old and an old yellow pastel colour pan and basin.

The floor is what I believe is called Thermoplastic tiles. I've never dealt with them before. Its sound, flat, clean.

I wondered if I have to break it up or not. Could I lay tiles on top, would they adhere as its a shiny surface. Constraint is that there is about 8-10 mm between plastic tiles and bottom of new door OR top of mahogany threshold.

I'm not too keen on setting my Geberit frame for the new loo ontop of the old thermoplastics glue which will be uneven. Floor below plastic tiles is concrete but I don't want to scrape the glue off the concrete either. I'm probably being a lazy sod though. Advice

Alan


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## Dibs-h (28 Feb 2011)

beech1948":32jqj11z said:


> I'm doing a restoration of an old bungalow. The last thing I thought would be an issue is turning out to be one. The old loo is about to be gutted and replaced...its 50+ yrs old and an old yellow pastel colour pan and basin.
> 
> The floor is what I believe is called Thermoplastic tiles. I've never dealt with them before. Its sound, flat, clean.
> 
> ...



Alan

To lay proper tiles you would have to take up the thermoplastic stuff. Have you thought about the tile stuff that clicks together? Haven't seen it in the flesh so can't say whether it's truly suitable for a bathroom\toilet, but I think it is pretty thin and should happily go down as a floating floor. I suspect it's actually laminate flooring!

HIH

Dibs

p.s. this is the sort of stuff - http://www.flooringmania.co.uk/bathroom-flooring.php (never used them, just Googled)


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## Rob Platt (28 Feb 2011)

If the thermoplastic tiles are properly fixed you can lay tiles over these. Read instructions on adhesive manufacturers bag probably would use latex type rapid set for this job if doing it myself.
All the best
Rob


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## Hudson Carpentry (28 Feb 2011)

You should fit the loo on top of the new tiles after you have removed the old.


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## llangatwgnedd (28 Feb 2011)

Blowlamp and a 4" stripping knife and the thermoplastic tiles will lift whole.


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## beech1948 (28 Feb 2011)

These Thermoplastic tiles seem to be set with a black adhesive which seems to be quite thickly laid on. Would a hot air gun work as well to soften then as a blow torch.

Hudson Carpentry. Cryptic but understood. Is there a reason not to tile over the plastic tiles. The plastic tiles are well set, firmly adhered to the floor and look to be a pipper to get up.

In the 8-10 mm I've got to play with would a say 7mm tile with the latex adhesive Rob Platt mentioned work. A thinish bed of say 3-4mm under the tile might be OK.

Alan


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## Dibs-h (28 Feb 2011)

I don't believe that a latex modified adesive would be suitable for layiing tiles straight onto those tiles.


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## llangatwgnedd (1 Mar 2011)

Hot air gun will work just the same.

Depending on the age of the tiles, there could be an asbestos risk. 

So wearing of a face mask is also needed.


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## Dibs-h (1 Mar 2011)

llangatwgnedd":fn3snqsm said:


> Hot air gun will work just the same.
> 
> Depending on the age of the tiles, there could be an asbestos risk.
> 
> So wearing of a face mask is also needed.



If there is an asbestos risk - I'd want a bot more than a face mask & then one more substantial than those disposable paper types.


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## beech1948 (1 Mar 2011)

OK. Thanks for all of the help and comments.

I'm going to see tomorrow 1) If there is a suitable adhesive to glue tiles over the Thermoplastic and 2) failing that then I'm going to take them up using a couple of hot air guns and a 6in stripping blade.

I'm surprised that Asbestos is likely to be an issue so will lift one and see what is going on. A mate who understands these old fashioned tiles will be in to advise tomorrow am but really I think he's just there to steal my good coffee.
Thanks for advice
Alan


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## Shrubby (2 Mar 2011)

Don't use a hot air gun! (assume the worst)
Download A23 from the hse asbestos page
I would go on top of what's there
Take care
Matt


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## beech1948 (2 Mar 2011)

It seems research is everything.

My tile guy was no help. Like I thought he was just there to sup my good coffee. But a call to a tile shop and then to Unibond HQ in Winsford Cheshire reveals that:
1) Need to paint over a thin coat of "bonding primer" over the thermoplastic tiles and let dry for 3 hrs
2) Need to use a powdered porcelain / cement based adhesive at about 3-4 mm thick with stone, slate or porcelain tiles and let dry for 24 hrs.

So thats a result and tomorrows task. I've just got hold of a second house to renovate and that also has about 1000 sq ft of thermoplastic tiles on the ground floor.

Hope this last message was useful as knowledge to you.

regards
Alan


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## Doug B (2 Mar 2011)

Alan,
I`ve only just seen this thread, as you`ve found out you can tile over thermoplastic tiles, the only advice i`d add is to roughen the surface of the thermoplastic tiles before you apply the primer.
As long as your thermoplastic tiles are well fixed, you shouldn`t have a problem.


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## Lons (2 Mar 2011)

Alan
You're right to leave them down.
My next door neighbour had a burst pipe last year which flooded her kitchen and the original tiles had to come up. (house was built in the seventies). installers suspected asbestos, called in the experts and sure enough, white suits, masks and special disposal later at great cost to the insurance company they were removed. neighbours were lucky not to have been moved out of the house :shock: 

Needless to say, mine ain't coming up!

Bob


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## beech1948 (2 Mar 2011)

I thought they were vinyl but I suppose they could contain some asbestos fibers for strength / filler or what have you. But the asbestos will be encapsulated by the vinyl/plastic so not be able to get free. After all someone has lived with these tiles for 50 yr and not suffered from asbestosis or what have you and they were and still are permitted to be used.

I think that the response to any minor asbestos issue ( like asbestos fully encapsulated in plastic) is often overkill by over zealous bureaucrats and of course those who need to make a living removing it.

And of course we don't know that these thermoplastic tiles contain asbestos.!! We / you are only theorising.

Loose white or blue asbestos is a different scale of problem and needs the full treatment.

I'm going to tile over mine though so they will be fully encapsulated/ entombed from above and below and all sides..

regards
Alan


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## Lons (3 Mar 2011)

beech1948":3v7xx46k said:


> I thought they were vinyl but I suppose they could contain some asbestos fibers for strength / filler or what have you. But the asbestos will be encapsulated by the vinyl/plastic so not be able to get free. After all someone has lived with these tiles for 50 yr and not suffered from asbestosis or what have you and they were and still are permitted to be used.
> 
> I think that the response to any minor asbestos issue ( like asbestos fully encapsulated in plastic) is often overkill by over zealous bureaucrats and of course those who need to make a living removing it.
> 
> ...



You're absolutely spot on with that analysis Alan and there lies the problem.

In your case, you're doing the work for yourself and assuming you are happy the risk is negligible then who's to stop you? 
As soon as any hint of possible asbestos is found when in a commercial situation which includes people like me carrying out work for customers, the sirens go off and panic ensues :roll: once this has happened, there are severe penalies for handling or disposing of the materials without proper training and licences so the contractor has to follow strict protocol.

No sane person would want to handle any material which poses such a risk but it's way OTT in situations like this. My neighbours being a classic example - no dust or breakdown of the tiles - just loose from the water damage. - Testing alone delayed the job by more than a week and they were transported 60 miles in sealed containers.

in my case, if it takes 30 years to develop the desease, I'll be gone before it happens :? 
cheers

Bob


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