# Delta import



## bramers (24 Feb 2006)

i am going to import a delta table saw it is 299 pounds (weight) and it costs £350 what i want to know is what the import and shipping costs will be. plus has anybody got any experiance or tips with buying from amazon.com ? 

thanks alot


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## Noel (24 Feb 2006)

bramers":1yr2huaj said:


> i am going to import a delta table saw it is 299 pounds (weight) and it costs £350 what i want to know is what the import and shipping costs will be. plus has anybody got any experiance or tips with buying from amazon.com ?
> 
> thanks alot


Well, for a start, you won't get one off Amazon.com. They will only sell to North America and US forces posted overseas.
What model did you have in mind? I presume at that weight and price it's a contractor's TS? T Square fence?
Even if you were able to buy one from a ordinary Delta dealer you'll end up paying somewhere in the region of £8-900 after shipping, customs clearance, EU duty and Tax.
You'd be better off paying a visit to Woodford where you'll get a saw properly specified to European use. After all no Delta TSs are totally manufactured in the States anymore. Indeed the majority are all of Chiwanese origin.

Noel


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## Anonymous (24 Feb 2006)

Hi bramers

Why Delta? There are many very good saws in th UK that will perform equally as well as any Delta and better than a Delata contractors saw.

Whilst I agree that Delta do make a good quality tool (I haven a Delta thicknesser), I realy can't see a reaason to consider import

Also, amazon.com won't ship to UK


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## bramers (24 Feb 2006)

i was looking at a 36-982, it will cost me £370 before any shipping, what will i have to pay onto that do you think?


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## Noel (24 Feb 2006)

I give up...........


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## Jake (24 Feb 2006)

Noel":3g2vi4if said:


> You'd be better off paying a visit to Woodford where you'll get a saw properly specified to European use. l



With you (nearly) all the way, but I think this isn't strictly true as they are not CE marked, at least according to their website.


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## LyNx (24 Feb 2006)

Noel":23hesie4 said:


> I give up...........



no point even starting  

Andy


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## Kane (25 Feb 2006)

Maybe he just wants a Delta - why not give some reasons why a Woodford sourced machine will be better ... for example I'd assume that if you took the price of the Delta plus the cost of delivery and bought in the UK you'd get a substantially better machine and it's usually easier to deal with any problems that may arise - imagine having to ship the Delta back if it went wrong!

Kane

PS Does Woodford have a website, couldn't spot anything on a quick Google.


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## filsgreen (25 Feb 2006)

Can any british saw accept a stacked head dado cutter? I was led to believe that no British saw can take a stacked head, I dunno, maybe Bramers wants that facility. 

Phil


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## bramers (25 Feb 2006)

yeah www.woodfordwm.co.uk are in stockport south of manchester almost, i have looked at them and it will cost me £700 to have one of those, so if i can get it cheaper from delta why not?

people i have spoken to about deltas are extremly happy so that is why i am here asking these questions.


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## Alf (25 Feb 2006)

bramers":3q32cbna said:


> yeah www.woodfordwm.co.uk are in stockport south of manchester almost, i have looked at them and it will cost me £700 to have one of those, so if i can get it cheaper from delta why not?


Because, as Noel lucidly explains, you probably _won't_ get it cheaper once you add in shipping, customs clearance, EU duty and Tax.

Cheers, Alf


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## Jake (25 Feb 2006)

Get some shipping quotes - my guess is that shipping will be £300-£400 minimum. Add that to the price. Then add 20-25% on the whole lot (including the shipping) for VAT and duty - this is one package that is not going to slip past customs. Make sure your US dealer can supply a saw with a UK spec motor.


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## Mdotflorida (25 Feb 2006)

Hi Bramers

I bought a Delta saw off someone who imported a small number of them into the UK together with some other US only bits of kits.

The saw cost me pretty much double what Amazon were selling it for. 

Now I know some of this is profit for the importer but that was a very small amount. On top of that he was importing a few at a time so his shipping costs would have been reduced compared to a single delivery. He also said that often items would arrive damaged necessitating negotiation with Delta and the shipping company. So often in fact that he was actually going to stop doing it as it was becoming more trouble than it was worth.

Also there is the problem of guarantees to consider. Can't just ship it back or expect an engineer to visit from the States.

Also as Jake has pointed out. There is extra cost in swapping the motor out at Delta.

I would definitely not do the import thing especially when you read the Woodford reviews. Check it out on this forum. There are many Woodford owners and I doubt you will find one who is unhappy.

Jeff


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## bramers (25 Feb 2006)

what do you think of your delta? how happy are you with it and what model have you got? cheers


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## Alf (25 Feb 2006)

bramers":3r3b3u2t said:


> what do you think of your delta? how happy are you with it and what model have you got? cheers


 ](*,)


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## bramers (25 Feb 2006)

and what model?


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## Neomorph (25 Feb 2006)

filsgreen":1otbu2uf said:


> Can any british saw accept a stacked head dado cutter? I was led to believe that no British saw can take a stacked head, I dunno, maybe Bramers wants that facility.
> 
> Phil



Oh god he said DADO!!! :lol: 

EVERYONE DUCK!!!


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## Bean (25 Feb 2006)

bramers Get real, wake up and smell the coffee
as people keep telling you it is not worth importing one from the states. It will cost you more than a UK supplied one.
If you are intending to use it for business you may well be stuffed with it as it will not conform to CE regs, It will therefore not be guarded in a sufficient manner..............You will not be able to use it if the HSE pay a visit, Your insurance company may well load your premium if they pay a visit..................and they do!!

For the money you will be paying for a lot of trouble you can buy a better saw from woodford and lots of other people that will take the dreaded Dado, if that is what you want.

Bean


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## frank (25 Feb 2006)

this is the lad who wanted a woodford now he wants a delta what will he want next week .

i gave up weeks ago 

frank


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## Bean (25 Feb 2006)

I'm with you Frank

Bean


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## LyNx (25 Feb 2006)

> what will he want next week



Following the rage to much, Norm fan too.

If Norm cut his hand off with the dado, that may be next on his list

Sorry mate but i don't reckon your thinking clear here. Alot of advise so far but i don't think your taking any notice.

Andy


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## jonny boy (25 Feb 2006)

Bramers,

It's your money lad, If you wan't an imported delta, you go for it! 
People can only give you their opinions then the choice is yours. After all, it's only money!

cheers,
jon.


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## Hitch (25 Feb 2006)

What about the voltage? Is it 110v?

Beware, as us mains 110v is different to 110v from a site type transformer.


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## bramers (25 Feb 2006)

when did i say dado?

all i am after is advise, i am only young and just want to spend my money wisely, and try to get everything that i hoped for.

i dont mean to make anyone angry but i just want to explore every route before i buy. after all this is a woodworking forum and i am just trying to take in as much knollege as i can, i learn by asking these question.

sorry/cheers

bramers


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## Real wood (25 Feb 2006)

I bought a router from the usa and just run it off a yellow 110 converter. Ive had it over 2 yrs now and its great. Shame i couldnt get the model over here.


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## Alf (25 Feb 2006)

bramers":3l3gz917 said:


> when did i say dado?


Er, here?

Folks are only getting frustrated because they've _given_ the advice you seek, but there's no obvious sign that you've taken it in _at all_, that's all. 

Cheers, Alf


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## Philly (25 Feb 2006)

Bramers
No worries :wink: 
A lot of folk have asked the same question as you-can we order US machinery and get it delivered to the UK as it seems so cheap when you look on the US sites. The answer is simple-by the time you get i shipped, Customs add VAT, duty and a little bit more, you take into consideration that there will be no warrenty worth mentioning and the voltage thing, it's probably not worth it.
The fact is the saw you are after (a contractors saw) IS available from Woodford for a lot less than trying to source it from the US. Have a look at the 803 and 804 (I think). I personally have bought the 806, a Delta Unisaw clone, and am VERY happy with it!  
Hope this helps
Philly


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## bramers (25 Feb 2006)

In this topic. er no :wink:

just to be clear i will go for a woodford 804, has anyone been on an 804, 805 ect and also had a go on a delta to compare the two?


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## jonny boy (25 Feb 2006)

Bramers,

Decide first of all what your budget is. Then the work area where the saw is to go, and finally what you need the saw to do. Then decide which will be the best for you. You can too easily get yourself into a deep hole of Delta's, Woodfords saw's or should I import. A second hand well looked after 10inch Wadkin that's been converted to single phase would suit you just fine. They regularly appear on ebay for anywhere between £300-£600 depending on condition and you could even use it with a dado head.

cheers,
jon.


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## Kane (25 Feb 2006)

Important thing to remember with the costs is that you are charged Import Duty on the value of the item PLUS post and packing (at least on 'normal' sized packages - can't see it being different on the larger kit though) then you are charged VAT on the value of the item and post and packing and Import Duty - that will add up to a sizeable chunk of change on top of everything else!!

Kane


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## johnelliott (25 Feb 2006)

Real wood":314tsi61 said:


> I bought a router from the usa and just run it off a yellow 110 converter. Ive had it over 2 yrs now and its great. Shame i couldnt get the model over here.



Routers have series (brush) motors, and so will work fine on UK mains transformed down to 110V. Table saws, OTOH, normally have induction motors. The fact that US electricity is 60 hertz and UK is 50 hertz means that an induction motor machine intended for the US will run that much slower in the UK

John


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## MikeW (25 Feb 2006)

I generally don't get involved in this sort of debate and reasoning. But I thought I would stick my foot in my mouth this time.

There are many safer and quicker, not to mention more accurate, ways of cutting dados, it makes me wonder why people here in the US still use dado stacks anyway.

If I were a commercial shop again, through dados would be cut on the radial arm saw, stopped dados using guides and routers. But then, I don't like dados anyway.

In my single person shop, they were cut using the Rat and or by hand. Except in built-ins where there were typically enough to do using a guided router. Bespoke furniture, if you can get the work, isn't the same type of race to get done and what few dados there are in much of the work are easy enough and fast enough to do so by hand or router. 

As to importing of machinery? Seems a hassle to me. Each country makes comparable products or has appropriate models readily available. While I think the Wadkins is a really cool looking tablesaw, unless I was financially and mentally prepared for what that means to import one and make it work here why go through the trouble. At least from the perspective of wanting it to actually work with, and not as a hobby to restore and prepare for work.

Well, back to work in my workshop, devoid of a tablesaw now anyway.

Take care, Mike


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## Anonymous (25 Feb 2006)

Bramers

You have been given the oadvice you seke by many here. Forget importing a saw (Delta contractors will *NOT* be better than other quality saws in UK despite Norm using one from his _sponsor_).

Most good quality saws will do what you want as well as you could dream such as Kity(I have one and cannot fault it), Sheppach and the SIP.

My personal advice would be to forget the dado, you don't need one as there are many other ways to achieve the same job - I use a router with guide or in a table. I used to use a dado head cutter but found no advantage over the router method AND it takes 10 times longer to change a tablesaw blade than a router cutter. I sold the dado after 6 months of non-use


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## Alf (26 Feb 2006)

bramers":20yf878k said:


> In this topic. er no :wink:


My apologies; folks don't usually change what they're looking for just because they're in another thread, but you obviously differ.

Cheers, Alf


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## filsgreen (26 Feb 2006)

filsgreen":1wpekyht said:


> Can any british saw accept a stacked head dado cutter? I was led to believe that no British saw can take a stacked head, I dunno, maybe Bramers wants that facility.
> 
> Phil




I can only apologise to Bramers for bringing up the question of the D word, I did not know it was so contraversial :shock: However, some good has come of it because I was also looking along the same lines as Bramers. I own a SIP TS, it's OK (apart from the banana fence guide) but due to the advice given on this post I'm going to stick with it. I've learned so much form you guys ang girls, it's probably saved me money and maybe a few fingers :lol: Once again sorry for hijacking your post Bramers.

Phil


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## Kane (26 Feb 2006)

If you import why not knock up a review of the import process itself - it would be very usful info especially if you were willing to include specific costs - either way keep us posted 

Kane


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## martyn2 (27 Feb 2006)

heres one for you to look at if you are looking for a study table saw 

martyn


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## Taffy Turner (27 Feb 2006)

martyn2":1etzei75 said:


> heres one for you to look at if you are looking for a study table saw
> 
> martyn



Ah - that must be the model with the invisible crown guard and riving knife. 

:shock: 

A very worried Taffy.


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## Bean (27 Feb 2006)

Ahh but its alright provided you are wearing safety glasses :norm: #-o 

Bean


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## Scrit (27 Feb 2006)

No D-words, please. :shock: Running an induction motor designed for 60Hz on 50Hz will result in the motor running at 5/6 of the design speed. Maybe at that speed it won't cut so well, it will probably be more prone to stalling (unless you resize the pulleys) but worst of all the fan will not turn as fast and the motor will therefore run hotter and be more susceptible to the windings overheating (and cutting out if there is a thermal cut-out). Overheat windings too many times and the motor will die. Expensive. The other little joy you may have to face (albeit not very likely) is that I believe that Customs & Excise can sieze and impound products being imported into the EU which are not CE-marked and either force you to have them brought up to standard before release or face having them crushed. They cand and do it with toys, etc. very publically. Dealers do get waivers to cover this sort of thing, but they can produce documentary evidence of intent and ability to convert to CE-norm. You'd be unlucky to get caught on this, but it can happen.

Scrit


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## neilc (28 Feb 2006)

As some might know I imported a unisaw. Even though I'm an electrican I went to a motor rewind shop to seek advice on wether to get the motor rewound. The answer was no. As for over heating the windings, the nature of a table saw is not constant running so there shouldn't be a problem. Also it has never stalled once no matter what I've thrown at it.

After reading this thread I feel I should explain why I went the import route. The choice of machinery is very limited over here even compared to the UK never mind the US. What we do have available to us in my option is over priced, we now live in probally the most expensive country in Europe (also known a rip of republic). As regards what I was looking for in a table saw was a good cast iron table, accurate mitre slots and an excellent fence system, the unisaw has all three and so much more. I'd be lying if I said the dado ability didn't come into it, it did but for me it wasn't the main priority.

At the time of purchase there was an excellent exchange rate with the euro/dollar which after a fair bit of soul searching and been able to justify it to both myself and herself I went for it. Do I regret it, not one bit. My advice to anyone thinking about it is, if your feel you can justify it to yourself go for it.

Was importing from the UK an option, not really. While there would be no extra duty I'm sure transport would have been steep and the euro/sterling rate not very good. Also at the time I hadn't discovered this site and possible alternatives.

Neil.

Sorry about the rambling but just in from work after doin a ghoster since 7.30 this morning and this thread finally got the better of me.


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## Kane (28 Feb 2006)

Interesting hearing from someone that went the import route 

Kane


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## Scrit (28 Feb 2006)

neilc":y4m7bqnf said:


> As some might know I imported a unisaw. Even though I'm an electrican I went to a motor rewind shop to seek advice on whether to get the motor rewound. The answer was no. As for over heating the windings, the nature of a table saw is not constant running so there shouldn't be a problem. Also it has never stalled once no matter what I've thrown at it.


Then why didn't you opt for a 50Hz motor to start with instead of trying to get a motor rewound? I believe that Delta still offer a 50Hz option motor on the Unisaw for export and I've got some current Powermatic catalogues which show the same sort of options available on their stuff. Unfortunately I think that an electrical engineer would disagree entirely with your motor shop - it depends on the amount of time you'll run the motor, true, but a 60Hz motor still runs warmer at 50Hz and heat breaks-down the insulating coating on the windings _over time_. If there weren't an issue Delta and others wouldn't offer 50Hz motor options, would they? I have to say that I view this from an industrial perspective where reliability is absolutely required and the views I've expressed is valid from that perspective. 

The comments about CE-marking are also still valid. The Unisaw and its clones get nowhere near to meeting current EU and British safety and electrical standards - in fact the Unisaw coul;dn't even meet the 1974 safety regs - partly why it was withdrawn from the UK market some 30-odd years ago. And there have been enough threads on US sites regarding problems with the magnatic contactors (DOL starters) on Delta saws to make me, for one, wary. I've used both the Unisaw and the Powermatic 66 a few times and neither of them particularly shines. Having recently had a few hours using a Scheppach TS4010 I'd say that was the better saw, certainly functionally, albeit with an aluminium table. The only pity is that Startrite stopped making their bench saws - a good Startrite will knock the American stuff into a cocked hat, especially if it has the later sliding leaf rip fence (post 1982-ish) and a sliding table. 

I find it amusing that when discussing this with Americans taht many are scornful of the Unisaw, and to a lesser extent the PM66, if they've had any experience of using a European saw - even the lightweight Incas. Is this a case of the grass being greener? Or are European machines really much better designed?

Scrit


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## Noel (28 Feb 2006)

Scrit":3bvm74eg said:


> neilc":3bvm74eg said:
> 
> 
> > As some might know I imported a unisaw. Even though I'm an electrican I went to a motor rewind shop to seek advice on whether to get the motor rewound. The answer was no. As for over heating the windings, the nature of a table saw is not constant running so there shouldn't be a problem. Also it has never stalled once no matter what I've thrown at it.
> ...


Yup, Delta offered a 50Hz version of the Marathon motor for $100. Not sure sure if the option is still there for the newer X5 saws that come with the Brazilian WEG motors.

Noel


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## neilc (28 Feb 2006)

When I started looking into getting the machine Delta did offer the 50Hz motor but when I purchased it in October last year Woodworker Supply told me this option was no longer available. Apparently they were taken over by someone can't remember who (think Black & Decker)but they said the don't do it anymore. I can't disagree with your industrial perspective but hey this is a home shop where it get maybe 2 hours combined usage a month.
Neil


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## Noel (28 Feb 2006)

Just out of interest Neil, is your TS X5 with a WEG motor?

Rgds

Noel


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## neilc (1 Mar 2006)

Noel its not the X5 model. Not sure which make of motor is on it. I'm only in the door from work(a bit crazy at the moment) so I'll check it out for you tomorrow.

If the mods don't mind seen as how the Scheppach TS4010 has been mentioned by Scrit who's option I respect, tomorrow I'll start a new thread laying out all my import costs compared to a price I will get for the Scheppach TS4010 from McQuillan Tools who is the main source of power tools here. Then put it to a poll. Let me know if your interested in this.
Neil


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## neilc (1 Mar 2006)

Noel it is indeed a WEG motor.
Neil


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## Noel (1 Mar 2006)

Thanks Neil, WEG seem to have a good reputation.
No problem with the import story. Would be very interesting.

Rgds

Noel


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