# Hard decision, need help! Hegner 2S or Ex 21



## Valld (26 Feb 2016)

Hi All,

A short introduction of myself. New to this nice forum, 1 month into scroll sawing. I'm Bulgarian, 45, living in Botswana. It's a very boring country with not much what to do and I have some free time. Also always loved working with wood. Recently found the scrollsawing, honestly never heard about this hobby/profession before. Got hooked quickly and after reading a ton of online info I purchased the only scroll saw you can buy in Botswana - Ryobi 1600 16 inch saw. Works OK, after a few quick tunes/modifications/lubrication/disassembly/assembly/alignment and mounted on a sturdy 3 leg stand that I made for it, the saw performs fine (much better that when I bought it) for the price I paid (about 200 USD). But it has it's limitations/flows - even with the 25kg sand base and about 8kg stand it still vibrates at specific speeds, mostly around the 3/4 of the full speed. It started making funny noises already, after only a few intarsia and puzzle projects and I decided I'm not going to invest any more free time to improve a badly designed and manufactured with low quality materials device and I will buy a proper saw.

Money is not a problem, I can afford buying any saw on the market, my problem is bringing it to Botswana and absolute lack of service here. They are relatively heavy machines and no one in Europe (220 volts grid here) ships to the end of the world at reasonable price ... I've got a solution to this as well, every year we go back to Bulgaria for vacation usually August (me, my wife and the daughter) and we have about 120 kg total luggage allowance on the way back to Botswana, so I already started preparing the wife that I will reserve 20-30 of them for my new saw . Now it's coming the big question, discussed million times on this and other forums: Hegner or Exscalibur! 

I want the best. I feel like I want both, but this is not possible and not reasonable, not now. I like the tilting and the top blade feeding of the Excalibur and I like the reliability of the Hegner. I don't like the reliability of the Excalibur and the lack of top feeding and table tilting of the Hegner. The ideal will be Excalibur with Hegner's reliability/quality. I'm reading everywhere " My Hegner is 25 years old, no problems" and never saw anything like "My Excalibur is 10 years old and never had a problem", I think the longest time happy Excalibur owners that I came across were having their saws for 3-5 years usually with a few clamp and other parts replacements. Also I saw a few folks saying they have both and the Hegner is more quite and with less vibrations. 

My decision is getting even harder considering that I will be absolutely unable to send the machine for repair, if it goes down. So my first priority when choosing must be reliability. And here wins Hegner. Tilting of the table I can consider not such a big issue, but the top feeding and easiness and comfort of blade changes are the things that still stop me to choose a winner. 

I also do not understand the power specifications of the Excalibur and Hegner. Excalibur has 320 Watt motor, Hegner 100 Watt. Why such big difference? At the same time the size of the motors is different in the other way around - Hegner motor is 3 times (OK, maybe 2) bigger than the Excalibur. Which one is longer lasting? Which one has more torque at all speeds? Which one runs cooler? If someone can explain....

And now naturally comes the most important question. I dig the whole web searching for this and failed to find a positive answer:

Can a Hegner quick blade clamp be installed as a bottom holder on Hegner Multicut 2s (or other models)? Did someone tried this and if it's not working, what is the problem? Is there a way to make some modification for the quick blade clamp to be used as a bottom blade holder? What modifications are needed? I just hate when there is a nearly perfect machine on the market and a small tiny problem stops it to be the best! Because in my opinion if the Hegner had a more user friendly and quicker blade clamping system, it really would not have competition.

If you have reached the bottom of my post I want to tank you for your time! If someone has both machines or can comment all the above, I will really appreciate your input. 

Thanks


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## Chippygeoff (26 Feb 2016)

Hi and welcome to the forum. You have obviously been dwelling over the Hegner v Excalibur question for a while and trying to decide which is the best option. There is no doubt that the best choice would be to go for the Hegner and there are many reasons for this. I bought an excalibur 21 when they first became available and in a nutshell was one of the worst saws I have used. Since then there have been improvements made and those that have recently bought the excalibur seem very happy with them. With the current excalibur I find two things that annoy me, one is the blade clamps and the second is the saws table, in my opinion it is to thin and the coating on the surface soon becomes scratched and looks unsightly. Also take into account that the excalibur has not stood the test of time.

I have 2 scroll saws. the first one is a Dewalt 788, again in my opinion this is the finest saw ever made but sadly the MK1, which is what I have, is no longer made. It was made in Canada. The current 788s may look the same but not as well made as the original and the materials used are not as good quality. My other saw is a variable speed Hegner with a cast iron table. It's as good today as when I bought it several years ago. It has never let me down. I have bought extra blade clamps and that's about it. The Hegner is ultra reliable and I have never heard of anyone being let down. As long as you oil the bearings the Hegner willlast a lifetime and is probably the most relaible saw you will ever come across. My saws are in use almost every day as I use them on a professional basis selling what I make at craft fairs and exhibitions etc.

You cannot fit a quick release clamp on the Hegners lower arm. The quick clamp on the top arm is a must for me, especially when there are a lot of internal cuts to be made. Blade changing only takes a few seconds once you get used to the machine and I have never had a problem with blade changing. Many years ago I had a problem with my Dewalt. I had to have the motor replaced soon after I bought it, the problem was an electrical surge so now I use surge protectors on both my saws, best to be safe than sorry. I hope this helps, needless to say others will come along and make their comments. I wish you well and hope all goes well for you with your scroll sawing.


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## Aggrajag (26 Feb 2016)

My two pence, which admittedly comes with 1% of the experience of Chippygeoff, is that I adore my Excalibur EX16 bought only 6 weeks ago. It's streets ahead of the "cheap" one I had before it, it feels sturdy, quiet, smooth and like it could run forever. The quick change clamps and tension lever are a godsend. I couldn't be without it, I love it.


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## jasdon79 (26 Feb 2016)

I have been using a hegner for ten years and I have just bought a ex21 and will be selling the hegner a far better machine


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## Alexam (26 Feb 2016)

Although I will be buying the new Axminster Ex 16 or 21, for you I would recommend the Hegner simply because of it's reliability and possibly world circulation. Therefore, although you may not be able to get servicing, the chances of others owning or knowing about a Hegner scrollswaw are far greater. The new tilting of the machine on the EX models is not such an important issue. 

Malcolm


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## Valld (26 Feb 2016)

Thank you all guys, it will be a tough decision, but the good news is I still have about 5 months to decide. Time often helps more then we can expect. I will see how my scroll sawing goes, how the Ryobi performs and most important I will be waiting for Malcolm (and everyone else who buy it in the meantime )to give feedback on the new Axminster ex 16 or 21. I'm really tempted by the ex 21, hopefully Axminster had fixed all flows and the new ones are as good as the 110v version. Regarding the service, I'm pretty confident I can service any power tool myself, just need to get hold of spare parts.


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## Alexam (26 Feb 2016)

Don't forget Vall, all the guys on this forum are available for help and advice when you are back home, just as long as you can connect up and chat.

Malcolm


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## Valld (26 Feb 2016)

Sure, thanks Malcolm, I will definitely need help and advice and will be pretty active in the forum. By the way the thread that you started about the Ex 16 is the one that brought me to this forum, I think it should be now renamed to 'Axminster trade Ex scroll saws' and pinned, because many people will be looking at how the new machines will be performing, count me first.


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## martinka (28 Feb 2016)

Valld":1z2ehzy8 said:


> And now naturally comes the most important question. I dig the whole web searching for this and failed to find a positive answer:
> 
> Can a Hegner quick blade clamp be installed as a bottom holder on Hegner Multicut 2s (or other models)? Did someone tried this and if it's not working, what is the problem? Is there a way to make some modification for the quick blade clamp to be used as a bottom blade holder? What modifications are needed? I just hate when there is a nearly perfect machine on the market and a small tiny problem stops it to be the best! Because in my opinion if the Hegner had a more user friendly and quicker blade clamping system, it really would not have competition.



I made a little video showing how easy it is to change blades and do internal cuts on the Hegner. post989457.html#p989457


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Thanks Martin, I dont think anyone can question Hegner's bottom feeding, it looks as fast as Ex. The problem is the lack of top feeding for Hegners to help with large pieces with hundreds intricate cuts with very thin holes, im just surprised nobody made some bottom blade holder modification to allow this.


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## martinka (28 Feb 2016)

The Hegner would be much better if you could top feed, but even with a different bottom clamp, the top arm won't lift enough to allow it. However, I cut a loco with around 400 internal cuts and feeding the blade from the bottom was never a real problem. I can usually feed the blade by feel, instead of having to tie myself in knots to see underneath Still, if you are regularly going to be doing hundreds of internal cuts, top feeding would be the way to go.

I just had a look at my saw and I reckon it just might be possible to make it feed from the bottom. However, as it would involve an angle grinder, it's not something you would want to do to a new saw.


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Haha, thanks Martin, angle grinder sounds very tempting, how can you resist? Anyway, your imput definitely adds to forming my decision. Very important point about the lifting of the top arm! It kind of explains why no one is interested in modifying the lower blade holder, even if you do it, it will probably only help with quicker blade change, which, after watching your video, will not be a huge improvement.


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## AES (28 Feb 2016)

Welcome to the Forum Valld. As I think you've seen already, there's a real great bunch of people on here, many of whom have in-depth experience.

One such is Chippy Geoff, but personally I believe his opinions of Excalibur are based on an unfortunate experience he had some time ago when, apparently, Excalibur were having quality problems. Unlike you I was able to have a hands-on comparison of both Hegner and Excali side by side and although I did feel that the Hegner was a somewhat "better-feeling" machine, I plumped for the Excali in the end. For detailed reasons look up my post and all the responses - "Biting the Bullet ....." dated approx. June 2015.

In my experience the Excali quality problems now seem to be solved, certainly on my own example, and while Geoff is quite correct about the paint finish on the table (it's far too delicate and scratches much too easily) that is "only" a cosmetic problem - the table itself is now made of approx. 6 mm thick cast iron and weighs a ton (as I found out when I removed mine to add a layer of self-adhesive transparent plastic film to protect the paint)! So I doubt there will be any problems with this or any other quality area of current Excali saws these days - and this seems to apply to the new Axi version too.

Regarding getting spares I have of course got no idea of how you'd go about getting them in Gaberone (good luck with that mate!) but of course there's always the internet. In fact the Excali needs very few spares and if you look at the last page of the current topic here - "Excalibur ..... " you'll see my response to Claymore talking about Excali spares in some detail.

But I do sympathise with your buying dilemma right now. I really wasn't sure myself until I had the chance to try both side by side, which obviously you do not.

As it stands now, personally I think that in terms of quality, performance, and longevity, you could choose either Hegner or Excalibur without any qualms at all, so your decision will come down to "just" price, plus features (such as the tilting head of the Excali, which personally I find a godsend, having previously used a cheapo saw with tilting table).

Anyway, good luck, and ask away, there's loads of people here with much more experience than me and everyone here is very willing to help.

HTH

AES


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Thank you AES, yes, I did already read your 'biting the bullet...' thread, I'm trying to read as much as I can, it's kind of obsession, when I'm interested in something new I'm reading a lot. It was a good reading by the way, at one point I felt I'm there together with you and your wife testing both machines ☺. Could you please post the link to the other thread that you mention, about the EX spares, there are too many threads starting with Excalibur.... can't find it.


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## AES (28 Feb 2016)

OK Valld, glad you found the post, and thought the post helpful.

Here's the other post I mentioned, my bit about spares is almost at the bottom of P. 4:

excalibur-scrollsaws-t95005-45.html

To save you reading it all, from the Manual for my saw (note, it's NOT the new Axi machine) here's the list of spares they suggest you have standing by:

Qty 2 x Blade Clamp Thumbscrews
Qty 2 x Blade Set Screws
Qty 1 x Blade Tension Lever

Although not mentioned specifically in the Manual, remembering where you are I would add 1 set (Qty 2) carbon motor brushes to the above list.

To make all that a bit clearer I've scanned the relevant pages from the Manual which I've attached here. Once again, please note that my machine is the Excalibur EX 21CE and NOT the new Axminster Tools own version. From the pictures posted so far both versions look the same but I'm not sure how much the same they both really are, and also I doubt that the Part Numbers shown in the Manual pages attached would apply to the Axi version. I've marked the relevant parts in orange marker, I hope these show up OK on the scans.

Hope it helps.

AES


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Wow, thanks! AES, could you please clarify something for me. Are the blade clamps/holders made of aluminum or steel? I did read somewhere that they are aluminum. But it doesn't make sense to keep the steel thumb screws and set screws as a spare and not the aluminium clamps. The aluminum thread should worn much faster than the steel screw, or I'm wrong and it's all made out of steel?


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## AES (28 Feb 2016)

Wow Valld, hard to be really sure.

The upper & lower blade holder "bodies" are definitely not magnetic - I suspect aluminium (but certainly not a soft alloy), or possibly die castings (but if the latter, definitely high quality - no sign of the usual "dark & light speckles" that you see on all but the best quality die castings).

The blade clamp thumb screws themselves, and the set screws on the other side of the clamp bodies, are certainly magnetic and look very much like steel to me.

But note also that the blade clamp thumb screw "wings" themselves are plastic, and are only about 26 mm long overall (centred on a 6 mm "bolt"), so the chances of over-tightening and stripping the threads in the clamp body would be almost nil in my opinion.

In fact I (shamefully) admit that when I first got the saw I accidentally over-tightened the thumb screws a couple of times and "only" had to put a piece of rag around the wings to release the blade - with no sign of any damage to the threads in the clamp body - I checked!

The thumbscrews actually only need a "normal" turning pressure to tighten the blade fully once you've got the set screws on the other side of the clamps properly adjusted (see the diagram).

But if you are even more cack-handed than me (doubtful!) , and supposing you have some basic metal-working tools to hand, if you did manage to strip those threads it would "only" be a question of drilling out the holes in the clamp body, then re-tapping the next available size up (i.e. 7 or 8 mm). It looks like there's plenty of "meat" in the clamp to be able to do that - but as I say, unless you're a real gorilla, I doubt you'd strip those threads with just finger pressure.

HTH
AES

Edit for P.S. Or, as you say, just order a spare upper & lower blade clamp body when ordering the machine and the rest of the spares.


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Thanks buddy, I think I'm becoming paranoic and getting too much into details☺. It will be all good whichever of the two I choose. 

If I go with the Hegner, do you guys think the SE version is worth the 110 Euro premium over the 2S version? The only difference is 2S table is aluminum and the SE table is cast iron?? And the weight of the SE (24kg) is 5 kg more than 2S (19kg), both lighter than the EX-16 (25kg) and much lighter than EX-21 (30kg). At the end I need to take into consideration the weight of the saw as well, it will fly in my briefcase changing 3 flights☺..


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## AES (28 Feb 2016)

@Valld:

QUOTE:
Thanks buddy, I think I'm becoming paranoic and getting too much into details☺. It will be all good whichever of the two I choose. 
UNQUOTE:

Yes, personally I'd agree with both of your statements above.

I can't recommend which Hegner model for you - I can't even remember now which model I tried (check my "Biting the Bullet" post). And beyond that trial in Munich I have no experience of any of them.

But one thing's 100% for sure, if you're thinking about carry-on bags (air travel) my EX 21 would definitely NOT go in the cabin as a carry-on - it took myself plus one bloke from the shop plus a trolley just to load it into the boot of my car in Munich.

Frankly, I doubt that any Hegner model would go as a cabin bag either, although they are a bit smaller than the Ex 21 - it's not just a question of weight but bulk/volume as well, and except perhaps on the very laxest of lax airlines, (which I very much doubt you'd find on 3 consecutive sectors), I can't see you getting away with it at all. I speak as someone who was a VERY regular air traveller with loads of tools, etc, etc, until about 18 months ago. 

I'd say forget all about airline cabin baggage completely, regardless of which saw you choose.

My EX 21 came in a pretty good tri-wall carton with a good ply base and if necessary I'd have been quite happy to ship that by air just as it came - either as accompanied baggage (no doubt subject to airline excess weight surcharge!) or as a separate airfreight shipment (cheaper). And I would guess (but don't know) that any Hegner model comes similarly pretty well packed too.

But beyond that I can't help, sorry.

AES


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Cabin luggage definitely impossible. I was thinking, if I get ex-16, to disassemble it and spread in the three suitcases, something like the table in one, the base in the second and the arm + motor in the third. From the photos it looks easy to disassemble the machine, what do you think? Hegner will have to be send as a separate piece in its own box, my allowance is 3x30 kg, so ex-16 and the two Hegners will fit. It looks like the scale of my decision is going in favor of the EX-16 for now.


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## Alexam (28 Feb 2016)

You may get some help by phoning Axminster head office at Axminster to explain your situation and ask if you can buy the Ex16 and get them to pack it in 3. They may not wish to do that, but you could try. You would need to understand how it goes together. At the same time you could enquire what the situation would be if you needed spares when home.

Anything like this would need to be cleared by the airline as they would need to approve of large metal items in luggage and may not allow it.

Malcolm


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## Valld (28 Feb 2016)

Thanks for your imput Malcolm , its already tested, for the last 8 years i did move in my luggage 2 mountain bikes, a big cast iron juice press(about 15 kg), bass speaker 30cm diameter and some other havy metal staff.Never had a single problem. This will be the heaviest item i move from BG to Botswana, but as soon as I stay within the 30kg limit per piece I don't expect any problems with it.


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## AES (29 Feb 2016)

Malcolm's right if you go for the Axi - in my own experience they tend to be very helpful and flexible.

Personally I'd go for the air freight option Valld, not hand carrying in 3 parts, whatever saw you buy in the end. If buying from Axi I would imagine they'd help with additional packaging if necessary, they seem to be a very helpful company, though no doubt Hegner are good too, I just don't know.

And shipment (air freight) by a courier such as DHL, FedEx, UPS, etc, and with insurance ("declared value").

I don't know about Hegner, but if buying the EX/Axi, personally I would definitely not split it into 3 - I'm not suggesting you are a dummy but from the drawings in the Manual it doesn't look at all easy to reassemble, and in any case, surely that would void the Warranty? 

And for spares I'd buy what you think you need at the same time as buying the saw and have them all shipped together at the same time as the saw.

HTH

AES

Edit for P.S. Air freighting "a lump/s of metal" is not a problem, it's done all the time. And if using a courier as above, or a decent forwarder, it'll go through all the security checks and you'll be asked to sign a declaration to add to the Air Way Bill anyway. I shipped all sorts of "lumps of metal" all over the world many many times and usually items a lot more fragile and MUCH more valuable than any scroll saw. Go about it the right way and it's not a problem. Frankly I think breaking the saw down into pieces and shipping with you as baggage (cabin or hold) on the same flight is a daft idea, sorry.


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## scrimper (29 Feb 2016)

I have no experience with the EX21 but I have owned a Hegner 2S variable which I bought in 1999, So I can offer my experience of the Hegner if it's any help to you.

I was dubious of paying quite a lot for a Hegner when I already owned a Diamond saw however once I had tried the Hegner I found it an absolute joy to use and at first could hardly walk past the saw without switching it on to hear it's gentle 'buzz'. The Hegner is superb to use it is powerful yet very quiet and vibration free it purrs away and you get a feeling of the quality of the thing when you use it, you get a feel good factor that you don't get when using other machinery.

Some people question blade changing on the Hegner but I can only assume they have not tried one because it is the easiest and simplest thing to do, after a few goes you can change blades with your eyes closed, especially if you use the quick clamp and the quick blade tension release fitted (both essential IMHO) I do lot's of internal cuts and it takes a fraction of a second to flick up the tension lever, twist the blade clamp knob and whip the blade out and into the next hole. To be honest I can't think of anything they can do to improve the blade mechanism.

I use my Hegner practically every day mostly for general woodworking rather than intricate fretwork and it still works perfectly with no signs of any wear after 17 years, they are simply bullet proof.

Whatever saw you buy I would suggest 4 things that are essential....
1) Quick release blade clamp
2) Quick release Blade tension (if you do lots of internal cuts this is 100% essential) 
3) Variable speed (IMHO essential with thin materials or delicate cutting)
4) Quiet vibration free running (you will come to dread using a noisy vibrating saw)

Hegner were largely responsible for the interest today in Scrollsaws, Helmet Abel was granted a world wide patent in 1974 for his saw blade suspension design which led to the Hegner saw going on sale in 1975, the saw today is little changed except for a few improvements, but if you have a good product why change it.

My only negative opinion of the Hegner is the initial cost of the machine, but you do have to pay for quality and you will soon forget what you paid whereas if you buy a cheaper one everytime you use it you will wish you had bought better! Hegner spares are also (IMHO) way too expensive but on the plus side you won't often need spares.

The only thing that has ever gone wrong with mine was the tiny on/off switch which failed after about 15 years, Hegner wanted £24 for this switch which was ridiculous especially when it is a standard mini rocker switch easily available practically anywhere for around £1!

I can quite definitely recommend the Hegner saws.

John


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## Valld (29 Feb 2016)

Thanks AES, I just received an email from Axi, I ask them if they can ship straight to Botswana, that would be the perfect solution, but unfortunately they kindly refused - see below:

"Dear Mr Dimitrov,

Thank you for your email enquiry.

Please accept my sincere sincere apologies but due to carrier restrictions we are unable to deliver to Botswana. If you have an alternative address that we can deliver these goods to please advise, alternatively you can also arrange for your own carrier to collect the items from us and deliver the goods.

Again, please accept my apologies for the inconvenience this may cause. If I can be of any further assistance please advise. "

Al least I tried . 

I also asked them about buying spare parts, but they didn't answer to this, probably because the answer came from the Export Department. I'm a bit worry about the spares because unlike all Hegner distributors Axy does not list any spare parts for purchase on their web site, I will write again to the customer service department .....

Regarding the disassembly of the Ex I'm pretty confident I can disassemble and assemble the saw in it's 3 major components in less than 10 minutes. I have almost 20 years experience in servicing all king of printers, plotters, servers, PC's and indefinite number of laptops, not to mention all home appliances like washing machines, toasters, ovens, vacuum cleaners and not on the last place my garage tools like electric screwdrivers, table saw, jigsaw, bandsaw...... I'm not sure if I like more working with scroll saw (and all other woodworking tools that I have) or fixing and improving them (the cheap ones) and making all king of jigs and attachments. I just like machinery and always want to know how exactly one device is working/ is assembled.


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## Valld (29 Feb 2016)

Thank you John, I really like both machines (Ex-16 and Hegner 2S) and still deciding which one to get. I hear you and your input is highly appreciated!

Could you please tell me your opinion about the difference between Hegner 2S and SE? Does it worth paying 110 Euro premium for stainless steel table? I believe your 2S is with the aluminum table?


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## AES (29 Feb 2016)

Another P.S. for Valld.

1. I'm sure scrimper is quite right about what he says about Hegner - in an earlier post I said that personally I think there's nothing to choose between Hegner and Excalibur when it comes to quality, performance, and longevity, your choice will be based on price and feature differences between the two.

2. Re shipping, if you search this Forum (not Scroll Sawing but Tool Reviews or General Woodworking, I can't remember which) a UK member here called "sunnybob" I think, bought a band saw, I think from Axi, and had it airfreighted to his home in Cyprus. The courier had a problem with finding his actual address in Cyprus, but the advantages here (compared to shipping it himself as own baggage) was that A) the vendor of the saw (Axi I think) helped sunnybob to sort it out, B) sunnybob knew exactly where it was all the time - including all the wrong places!, C) the courier involved came good in the end, and D) the goods were insured and if they had disappeared altogether he would have got a new saw - in the end!

You cannot say any of the above about one of your bags if that goes missing or gets broken into.

And my guess is that Hegner, being a perfectly reputable company, would be just as helpful about arranging air freight as Axi would be.

I can understand your wish to take advantage of your (very generous) 3 x 30 Kg baggage allowance, but honestly, my strong advice would be "don't do it".

AES

Edit for another P.S. OK, if Axi's shipper can't/won't ship to Botswana find a freight forwarder (ideally a consolidator, it'll be cheaper) ideally near to Axi's base (or Hegner's) who will pick up from the vendor and road/airfreight/road it to your address. Where are you right now? Check Yellow Pages, the internet, or airlines serving Botswana to find a suitable forwarder - your local airline itself may well be able to do it, although of course then they'll work through a local corresponding forwarder nearby to Axi or Hegner.


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## scrimper (29 Feb 2016)

Valld":2s5xa800 said:


> Thank you John, I really like both machines (Ex-16 and Hegner 2S) and still deciding which one to get. I hear you and your input is highly appreciated!
> 
> Could you please tell me your opinion about the difference between Hegner 2S and SE? Does it worth paying 110 Euro premium for stainless steel table? I believe your 2S is with the aluminum table?



Mine is alloy and I am perfectly happy with it. it is a pretty solid lump of alloy, personally I would not pay the extra, I don't see the need for it, in any case many of us fit a supplementary wooden table on top, the main reason for doing so in my case is to make the table a little larger and to have a smaller blade hole to support delicate pieces when cutting. 

There is a picture (of sorts) of my sub table here post905866.html#p905866 also you can see my modified quick clamp here too!


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## stevebuk (29 Feb 2016)

i may just be selling my hegner shortly if i get this job i am after, will let you know soon..


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## Valld (1 Mar 2016)

What is your Hegner Steve? Please give some details or links to other threads. I tried to search your posts to find out..... Not easy, 2658 posts


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## Lons (1 Mar 2016)

I could possibly be interested in your Hegner as well Steve though might come a bit late for me as I'm going to look at one of the new AXI EX21 machines they're bringing in for me to inspect on Friday.
Obviously Valid would have first refusal.
Bob


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## Valld (1 Mar 2016)

No problem Lons, I'm not in a hurry at all, but I'm interested, especially if Steve can ship it straight to Botswana . Please let us know about that AXI EX21 that you will meet on Friday.


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## Lons (1 Mar 2016)

Valld":28uv1eum said:


> No problem Lons, I'm not in a hurry at all, but I'm interested, especially if Steve can ship it straight to Botswana . Please let us know about that AXI EX21 that you will meet on Friday.



Will do.
I phoned the local Axi branch manager who initially said they wouldn't be in to the shop until the end of March but some gentle pressure soon made him push HO to get a couple on the next truck North. :lol: I haven't committed even though one has my name on it as I won't spend that kind of money without seeing the machine.

I think some of the guys on here already have their hands on one so will be interesting to see opinions.

Bob


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## dzarek1410 (16 Mar 2016)

Hello
Its my first post so Welcome everybody(However reading here all the time)
I would like share my experience with Excalibur ex-21
I bought it on February last year and already died
Im scrolling every day as its my full time job and give 700 pounds for new and reliable machine wasn't any problem(90% work is done on 12mm thick MDF)
Machine had so many problems so will list below
2 weeks after buying-Broken PCB Board
5 weeks later-Motor died
about 2 months later -Another Motor died
Few months later-Rocker cam snapped
Few days later rocker cam issue another problem with bearings in new cam
Some time later another problem with bearings sliding from motor pin 
And above that machine had heavily cracked under adjusting knob which cause problem with properly tighting blade 
Bottom holder had huge loose
Some small issues like falling down blower or heavily scratched table even is not worth talking
So after just 13 months and few weeks catching dust Ive sent it back and ordered Hegner so hope will be more lucky this time.
On the end want say about outstanding Axminster service which ALWAYS offered good and quick help
Hope that will help somebody when decide what to buy

Thank you


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## Valld (16 Mar 2016)

Wellcome Dzarek and thank you for sharing your experience, even the new ex 21 is probably refined version of yours, I'm getting more and more convinced that I will have to buy Hegner. I feel very sorry for your bad luck with the Ex 21 and I wish you will settle down happily with the Hegner. Which model Hegner did you buy?


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## dzarek1410 (16 Mar 2016)

Hi
Ive ordered Hegner Multicut Quick Scrollsaw Variable Speed and currently speaking with them about increasing top speed possibility -Read somewhere as its possible.


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## scrimper (16 Mar 2016)

dzarek1410":3o1rz1a2 said:


> Hi
> Ive ordered Hegner Multicut Quick Scrollsaw Variable Speed and currently speaking with them about increasing top speed possibility -Read somewhere as its possible.



You have made a good choice, I guarantee you will not be disappointed with the Hegner.  it is simple, free of pointless gimmicks and built as strong as a brick chicken house!


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## Valld (16 Mar 2016)

Great choice Dzarek, for someone with scrrolling as a full time job this sounds like the best choice. I think i've already decided to go with a Hegner and I like the multicut 1 very much for its light weight and small size, but few things bothers me about this model - its cutting thickness capacity is lower than the higher models, the maximum stroke is smaller and its advertized as ' Perfect choice for the ocational hobbyst'. Having the same 100 watt motor as its bigger brothers i was expecting the same specifications except the troat capacity, but they are not. So I will probably go with the 2s , it has everything I will ever need. Still have a few months to decide ....


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## dzarek1410 (16 Mar 2016)

Funny is as when last year looked for new saw Ive knew already how Hegner good is but decided go for Excalibur for better , quicker blade changing and slighty faster.How bad decision that was !!!!
I have pretty old saw ,probably older than me (38) and construction look very similar to hegner and in fact it had many issues over time but nothing which cant fix myself without spare parts so hope hegner will be same.
If any one are interested itsnt true as is possible increase their top speed-sadly


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## Valld (16 Mar 2016)

I'm not sure if the speed can be increased. I remember reading somewhere that it's possible with sending the saw to the manufacturer, but cannot remember where I saw this. It's interesting that the American Hegners are coming with higher speed - 1700 strokes per minute, and Europeans with 1400. Maybe something to do with the different voltage. If I find some information about this I will post it here.


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## Valld (16 Mar 2016)

OK, found some material on the net explaining the speed difference : http://www.50hz60hz.com/ It's petty simple, the mains frequency and number of poles are determining the speed of the motor.


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## Claymore (16 Mar 2016)

Why do you need the saws to go super fast? what type of things require a super fast speed? just wondered as I have mine at around 10 and its plenty fast for myself (too fast if i use thin materials so have to slow it down)


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## Valld (17 Mar 2016)

You can achieve the same results, or even better with changing the stroke lenght and/or front/ back blade movement if your saw allows it.


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## dzarek1410 (17 Mar 2016)

As said before for money work Ive use mainly 6 and 12 mm thick MDF where making letters from 30 to 50cm high so if machine is faster then earn more basically .Excalibur has been set up on 1800rpm so wondering if 1400 on Hegner wont be too slow.
Ive got experience how to scrolling but not on machines itself .Hegner will be my fourth saw in my life. For over 30 years used very old Russian construction and still in use
Anyway new one arriving tomorrow so after first cut will know everything


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## Valld (17 Mar 2016)

Can not wait for your feedback ☺


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## scrimper (17 Mar 2016)

Claymore":2vqpm5n0 said:


> Why do you need the saws to go super fast? what type of things require a super fast speed? just wondered as I have mine at around 10 and its plenty fast for myself (too fast if i use thin materials so have to slow it down)



I agree with the above, generally speaking I rarely use my saw at it's max speed, I adjust the speed according to what I am cutting, if it's thin and delicate I use a slow speed if it's thick or not delicate I speed it up!


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## dzarek1410 (17 Mar 2016)

Well Yes and No Everything depends what you are doing . On Excalibur almost never used speed slower than max. On my beloved Russian saw max speed is much higher, dont know exactly but will say as about 2500 , sadly its only 15 inch throat.


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## Lons (17 Mar 2016)

Maybe running constantly at highest speed is what wrecked your Excaliber dzarek. :wink:


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## Claymore (17 Mar 2016)

would you be able to cut the letters/shapes using a small bandsaw with fine blade? might do it quicker and less strain on the scroll saw? I can't imagine running at full speed all day lol I'm knackered just thinking about it 

Ever heard of the tortoise and the hare? Hare's are much tastier but tortoiise has its own serving bowl 9-)


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## dzarek1410 (17 Mar 2016)

Lons":2tlyy384 said:


> Maybe running constantly at highest speed is what wrecked your Excaliber dzarek. :wink:



Maybe Yes but feel as machine designed for Trade use should be more reliable. Especially on that thin material. Even Axminster engineering said they have many returns so have to be something wrong


Claymore":2tlyy384 said:


> would y





Claymore":2tlyy384 said:


> would you be able to cut the letters/shapes using a small bandsaw with fine blade?


Scroll saw is used for curve cuts only for straight Ive got 3 different sizes bandsaws .


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