# Could I sell my oak?



## Gary S (12 Mar 2007)

Evening all,

Last year I had an oak tree felled in my back garden (it was messing with the foundations of the house so the tree had to go unfortunately).  Since the insurance company were paying, I decided to pay to have someone round with a mobile saw mill (in other words a HUGE bandsaw!) and cut the oak down into planks for me.

I now have about 50 planks of 6.5" x 1.25" x 9 foot oak - come July it will have been seasoned for a year and should be down to about 15% moisture content (give or take).

I also have some 2" thick planks, including two 13" x 2" x 9ft long. This will probably take another year to season to a reasonable level of MC.

My question is this:

I have too much for my own use, so how would I go about selling this timber and what kind of value do you think it would have? Obviously I would not expect to receive the same amount as a timber yard, but a good quality english oak must be worth at least £20 per cubic feet in anyone's book?!

I know some of you may reply saying "if it's from a tree in your back garden it's full of nails and it's probably warped, twisted and only good for firewood", but trust me this isn't the case! It was milled by a professional and has been stored properly (ie covered and protected from rain and sun but open to allow air to circulate). 

Any thoughts / offers / suggestions gratefully received!

Kind regards

Gary

(I'm in Hertfordshire)


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## JFC (12 Mar 2007)

How much for the lot ?


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## wizer (13 Mar 2007)

if JFC doesnt take the lot then i'd probably be interested in a few boards


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## Alf (13 Mar 2007)

Gary, you've got somewhere to store it it seems? Keep it, matey. It's not likely you'll be getting any more of your own-milled oak again now, is it? 

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (13 Mar 2007)

I'm with Alf - there is no rush to use it up and oak is amongst thr most beautiful wood in my opinion


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## Gary S (13 Mar 2007)

Thanks for the responses - there are a few reasons why I'm keen to sell some of it:

- My garden isn't that big and I just about got permission from 'err indoors to stack up a tree in the back garden, so keeping it there for too long isn't much of an option...! (by the way, what does "SWMBO" stand for?!)

- My wife is two weeks away from giving birth to our first child, so the extra money will come in handy!

- It would take me years and years to get through all of it, so I'm keen for some of it to go to a 'good home'!!

The boards are cut square all edges so there's no sap wood or bark on the planks. So, on that basis, it's probably best for me to name a price per cubic foot and see if anyone's interested?

The average price for waney edge boards for oak seems to be about £35 per cubit foot. For PAR oak it's closer to £100. Since my wood is neither waney edge or PAR I would guess that a fair price is about £50 per cubic foot (ie about half the price of PAR). This would put a 6.5" x 1.25" x 9 foot board at about £25 which seems reasonable to me?

Obviously any buyer would need to come and collect or pay for delivery!!

If anyone is interested it's probably best to PM me - I don't mind it being on the forum but maybe other people don't want to see it?!


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## Scott (13 Mar 2007)

Gary S":2o9i5a7i said:


> (by the way, what does "SWMBO" stand for?!)



She Who Must Be Obeyed!


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## Gary S (13 Mar 2007)

Scott":20jlywyh said:


> Gary S":20jlywyh said:
> 
> 
> > (by the way, what does "SWMBO" stand for?!)
> ...



Love it! Having a pregnant wife turns her more into a SWMBDO ("D" = Doubly!!).


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## Scott (13 Mar 2007)

Gary S":oyt826ci said:


> Having a pregnant wife turns her more into a SWMBDO ("D" = Doubly!!).



Tell me about it!!! Mine is at the hormonal stage at the moment too! :roll:


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## DomValente (13 Mar 2007)

Gary S":2lou9oou said:


> :
> 
> - If anyone is interested it's probably best to PM me - I don't mind it being on the forum but maybe other people don't want to see it?!



Er, I did PM you at 07:30 Gary


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## Gary S (13 Mar 2007)

DomValente":1i38lxxe said:


> Gary S":1i38lxxe said:
> 
> 
> > :
> ...



Just spoken to you on phone - didn't get a chance to call until lunch time (some of us have day jobs that tie us to a computer screen all day you know!  )


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## Scrit (13 Mar 2007)

Gary S":365djsdu said:


> The average price for waney edge boards for oak seems to be about £35 per cubit foot. For PAR oak it's closer to £100. Since my wood is neither waney edge or PAR I would guess that a fair price is about £50 per cubic foot (ie about half the price of PAR). This would put a 6.5" x 1.25" x 9 foot board at about £25 which seems reasonable to me?


Sorry to disillusion you but round here (in the Mid Pennines) sawn W/E 1.25in oak runs about £24/cubic foot, trade + VAT (which I reclaim), 2S/E is about £39 (even John Boddy are only quoting £26 and £43 respectively as of yesterday, and Boddy's are normally nowhere near the cheapest) so £50 seems a tad high especially as that's an air-dried price (presumably 16% in about 18 months time) whilst the stuff I'm talking about is kiln finished to 10% RH. Green sawn I generally get for arpound a tenner a cube. All I can say is you folk down south must be rich......... :wink: 

Scrit


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## WellsWood (13 Mar 2007)

Scrit":2wqunr89 said:


> All I can say is you folk down south must be rich......... :wink:
> 
> Scrit



Hmphh! We wish!!

But most suppliers seem to think that way so we get charged accordingly.


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## ike (13 Mar 2007)

£50 a cube does sound too high but fair play if someone is willing to pay you that much. Last time I enquired in my neck of the woods, dried oak was between £25 and £35 a cube. 

Ike


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## Benchwayze (13 Mar 2007)

Hi Gary,


Seems like you had no trouble selling it then! 

You can never have enough Oak. What you don't have enough of is storage space! What you have too much of is spousal interference. You should see the stack of timber my wife puts up with. When she gets miffed, I make something nice!!!

Also, I have to agree with the consensus on price.
I find that woodwork magazines seem to quote these high prices for oak etc. I don't know why that is. I can buy English oak, inclusive of VAT, at around £28.00 per cube, and that's for a 'centreboard' cut

As for it being the most beautiful timber, I love the aroma when it's worked and it looks nice when it's finished as light oak. However, for beauty I prefer walnut.

Anyone agree?

John 

Happy Chipping
John


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## Benchwayze (13 Mar 2007)

MarkW":38rxam9g said:


> Scrit":38rxam9g said:
> 
> 
> > All I can say is you folk down south must be rich......... :wink:
> ...



That's London waiting time I guess?

For home-grown timbers though, there are some reasonable suppliers if you cast around. Depends on how far you wish to travel. Which has to be taken into consideration, when thinking about prices. Wish I could convince the clients! 

John


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## wizer (13 Mar 2007)

like i said earlier. If you are selling this by the board, let me know a price per board and i'll come and pick a few up if the price is right.


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## ByronBlack (13 Mar 2007)

ditto!

If you're selling by the board, I would definitly be interested in a couple.


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## Gary S (14 Mar 2007)

Right! Let's put this one to bed...

Just to recap - I didn't get much change from £1,000 to have the mobile saw guy spend two solid days milling the timber for me (plus hiring equipment) so I'm not trying to sell it off to make a fortune, I'm just trying to recoup some of money I spent on the tree.

When I buy timber as square edge boards it costs me about £75 per cubic foot for european oak (Interesting Timbers) - more if it's planed. Waney edge boards are about £35-40. I appreciate that tradesmen who buy hundreds of cubic feet, live outside the south east and have been in the trade for years can get it for £20 - lucky you, Scrit, I'm very jealous! :wink: 

But please don't say "it's only worth £20" because *TO ME* it's not - I couldn't replace my English Oak for European Oak for three times that price! I guess that's the issue here - it's only worth what someone will pay for it, but I know what I have to pay to buy my timber!

If anyone can name a company that will sell me square edge hardwood for anything near £20 per cubic foot then PLEASE let me and everyone else know!! I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person interested...

The reality is for me (and many other hobby woodworkers I guess?) that reasonably priced timber is not easy to come by, so I don't want to sell myself short on something that you can't pop into your local yard and buy - English Oak.

I will eventually use it all making bits and pieces for SWMBO and friends / family, but I was hoping to clear some space and recoup some of my costs by selling a percentage of my 'stash', and maybe help out some fellow woodworkers in the meantime with some reasonably priced timber.

So here we go (rant over! :roll: ), I've priced up what I've got and what I need to sell it for to make it worth selling - any less than this and I'd rather just keep it. Please don't bash me for this - if you think it's a rip off then OK you're not interested, but if you think the prices are reasonable then drop me a line.

All timber is square edge all round, and has been air dried. I'm going to check the moisture content this weekend but my guess is it's down to about 15%. Some of the 6"x1.25" boards have some sap wood and this would be reduced in price accordingly...

I have about 70 of 6"x1.25"x9.5' = £20 each

I have 4 of 14"x2x9.5' = £75 each

I have about 30 of 3"x3"x9.5' = £24 each

I have about a dozen 2"x2"x9.5' = £11 each

This works out at £40 per cubic foot - half the price I have to pay for European square edged timber. IMHO square edged English Oak is worth that - so anyone that agrees get in touch! :lol: 

Looking forward to the abuse that will no doubt follow this...


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## milkman (14 Mar 2007)

You could try the Carpenters Fellowship forum, they are oak framers but there maybe a market for oak boards as cladding


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## Benchwayze (14 Mar 2007)

Tony, I don't think it's a case of 'bashing' you over this and I doubt anyone wishes to do that.

The fact is, whatever you paid to have the timer converted isn't the issue.
The issue is how much you can sensibly ask for the timber. Where I live I really can 'pop' into my local timberyard and buy English oak. This is where being central has it's perks. 

I agree, the timber is worth more to you. So, in your place I would keep it. If I really had to sell it, then I would cut my losses and sell for the best price I could get.

The old song 'Half a Sixpence' might be appropriate here.
I.e, Whatever you do make is better than nothing.

But I wish you luck in selling 

Happy Chipping
John


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## ByronBlack (14 Mar 2007)

I've just rang my local supplier (EO Burton) and for square edge european oak they are charging £46.60 per cubic foot of 1 1/2 half stock, so I think you price is fair but not spectactular. If you could bring your price down to about £35 per cubic then I would most definitly be interested in some boards, by the way where are you located?


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## Scrit (14 Mar 2007)

Gary S":3uulx1mz said:


> When I buy timber as square edge boards it costs me about £75 per cubic foot for european oak (Interesting Timbers) - more if it's planed. Waney edge boards are about £35-40. I appreciate that tradesmen who buy hundreds of cubic feet, live outside the south east and have been in the trade for years can get it for £20 - lucky you, Scrit, I'm very jealous! :wink:


Sorry, Gary, but I did actually quote *John Boddy*, a nationally-known trade and *DIY* supplier and the prices I quoted *were* for small quantities, i.e. up to 10 cube. If Interesting Timbers can get £75.00 (£63.82 + VAT) then all I can say is that they are actually charging more than I know a couple of national chain builders merchants do - and they aren't known for low prices on hardwoods, either. As to machined timbers, you'll find the trade quotes out something like £20 to £25/hr + VAT for machining, but sawn through and through is not "nearly planed", it's just sawn. If I to go to 100 cubes (in my dreams?) then the price would be quite a bit less, but I didn't quote figures on that basis. In my post I was attempting to quote the sorts of prices I'd expect from a typical small timber yard for small quantities - I rarely post anything to do with trade quantity prices here as it simply isn't relevant. Also note that I quoted prices ex-VAT - if you were to buy from Boddies then you would need to pay 17.5% over the figures quoted, however, I also buy from a couple of local firms who are not VAT registered and their prices are commensurately lower because of that. I presume that you aren't VAT registered so surely that means your price point comparison should reflect this? In any case I wasn't alone in coming in with those sorts of prices as two other members, from the West Midlands and Gloucestershire respectively, also quoted figures in the same region. 

Another point for you to note is that for timber to be useable on many interior projects it needs to be kiln-finished down to about 10% which you cannot achieve with air drying in the UK and that's what oak from a yard should/will be unless specifically sold as "air dried". Once again air dried to a higher RH reduces the end user price as there's less cost involved. Isn't yours air dried *not* kiln finished?



Gary S":3uulx1mz said:


> If anyone can name a company that will sell me square edge hardwood for anything near £20 per cubic foot then PLEASE let me and everyone else know!! I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person interested...


Please read my original post again. I didn't say that, although I will state that waney edge can be had for well under £20 if you buy green, in quantity and accept ungraded timber, defects and all. Dried costs a bit more, kiln finished more still



Gary S":3uulx1mz said:


> The reality is for me (and many other hobby woodworkers I guess?) that reasonably priced timber is not easy to come by, so I don't want to sell myself short on something that you can't pop into your local yard and buy - English Oak.


Well in reality it's much the same for the trade. There are companies out there, nationally known and well-respected firms, who will happily put a large dent in your pocket simply because you've been unwary enough not to ring round a few places for prices. I also suspect that more than a few yards will hike their prices if they have the inkling that you aren't "in the trade", so learning how to deal with yards can be a great help. But that's something which only comes with experience, I'm afraid.



Gary S":3uulx1mz said:


> Looking forward to the abuse that will no doubt follow this...


No abuse. Call me a cynic, but £75 a cube (Interesting Hardwoods) is not a realistic price - it is just rampant opportunism! The reality is that any product is worth what you can get for it. Whether that is fair or equitable is another matter.

As for your own costs, I'd agree with the comment that that isn't really the issue. The issue is what is a reasonable price to ask in view of the fact that your timber isn't graded, sorted, kilned or planed. Under the circumstances I feel that you should be looking for a tad less than a reasonable yard would ask before VAT is appplied - just like anyone in the trade your costs shouldn't be of concern to the end user, only the price, so I'd seriously suggest pitching a few pounds below Boddy's price.

Scrit


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## Gary S (14 Mar 2007)

Gary S":2yjo2a2s said:


> Looking forward to the abuse that will no doubt follow this...





Scrit":2yjo2a2s said:


> No abuse. Call me a cynic, but £75 a cube (Interesting Hardwoods) is not a realistic price - it is just rampant opportunism! The reality is that any product is worth what you can get for it. Whether that is fair or equitable is another matter.
> 
> As for your own costs, I'd agree with the comment that that isn't really the issue. The issue is what is a reasonable price to ask in view of the fact that your timber isn't graded, sorted, kilned or planed. Under the circumstances I feel that you should be looking for a tad less than a reasonable yard would ask before VAT is appplied - just like anyone in the trade your costs shouldn't be of concern to the end user, only the price, so I'd seriously suggest pitching a few pounds below Boddy's price.
> 
> Scrit



Scrit - absolutely fair comments and points well made by you and well taken by me!

I do believe that some of the issue for me is where I live - small timber yards just don't exist around here (or should I say that with all the research I've done I havent managed to find any!). It looks like the advice I took on "Interesting Timbers" maybe wasn't good advice - I think I'll be looking John Boddy's way in the future for my timber needs...  

This is probably worth a separate discussion on its own at some point - just where do people go 'locally' to get their timber or who is a good, reliable supplier via internet / mail order (more of a concern for us suvveners, granted).

Taking into account everything that has been said on the matter I think my best bet is to keep what I've got and enjoy using the wood over a period of time. Financially it's just not worth me selling it for "What it's worth" (as you say about £25 per cubic foot, give or take), since it's worth more than that to me due to the history of the tree. I absolutely appreciate that this means NOTHING to anyone else and the fact that it's English Oak doesn't mean much either. 

So I guess the SWMBO, friends and family will benefit!!

However, anyone that's fairly local to me and is still interested in some small quantities then give me a PM and we'll see if we can come to an agreement on price - I'm quite happy for some of my oak to go to a 'good home', as long as you don't try and charge me to take it off my hands! :wink: 

Gary


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## Benchwayze (14 Mar 2007)

Hi Gary,

I see you stipulated square-edged hardwood. So I am sorry if I misled anyone. I am used to buying waney-edged boards. 

For anyone else who uses waney-edge material, Henry Venables in Stafford just quoted me for waney edge.

2" Oak £34.26 inc VAT. per cube.
2" Ash £23.85 inc VAT. per cube.

By today's standards, and seeing some of the prices mentioned here, I think those are good prices. 


 

John


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## woodbloke (14 Mar 2007)

Gary - does seem a little on the high side for air dried oak - I've paid recently about £22 cu' for locally source oak - Rob


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