# Can you buy shooting boards?



## wizer (14 Jun 2008)

Is there anywhere that sells shooting boards? I don't really feel confident enough to make one that is dead accurate. I want to make some picture frames and a mirror but don't trust the SCMS to get the mitres 100% right.

TIA


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## woodbloke (14 Jun 2008)

As far as I'm aware, no. However they're easy to make...see Pete Newtons fully adustable one here which I've copied. Easy enough to make from a couple of oddments of mdf and a quick visit to Tesco's :lol: - Rob


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## wizer (14 Jun 2008)

That's a shame. I just don't feel confident enough to get everything square and true. Seems like a chicken and egg situation. If I could make dead accurate mitres, I wouldn't need one.

Oh well. I'll persevere with the SCMS


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## Paul Chapman (14 Jun 2008)

Have a go, Wizer  At its simplest, just two pieces of MDF glued or screwed together and a planing stop - which can be fitted with bolts, wing nuts and over-size holes so that it can be adjusted to give an accurate cut.

You know you can do it :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## tnimble (14 Jun 2008)

They once did, for instance the Stanley #52 discontinued in the 1940ies.

I understand why you would want to buy one, also why others think its way to easy to make to justify buying it.

[rant]I just spend the entire day so far to drill 1 hole and cut a piece of silver steel in two which is still not finished. Spend most of the time moving stuff around, locating the tools, finding a blade that was now dull on the full length. The silver steel is now cut about 1/4 of the way. Holding the piece in some nuts in the machinist vice, which sits upon a small wheeled bathroom drawer closet. Me standing in the doorway with the door knob in my side and hitting me elbow on the door on each stroke.

Drilling was also fun, trying to hold the round thing in not so accurate V blocks I made for this job with my LN shoulder plane. With the piece on the drill press table at the lowest position the 10mm drill bit is to close to the table for the piece to fit under it. With the piece on the drill press foot and the drill fully extended down its to high to even touch the piece. So the piece has to sit on top of a stack of scraps. Finding the centre without tripping the stack while looking directly into the sun is not that easy also.

Without the right tools, everything you need at hand and enough place to work things are much much much easier.[/rant]


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## dennis (14 Jun 2008)

Wizer

If you are only doing 45 mitres why not do a very basic one for a start get 3 pieces of mdf one at say 400mill long by200mill wide glue and screw a piece 50mill narrower than this on top to form a rebate at say 20 mill from the centre put a 45 mark with a mitre square then get a piece with a 90 corner on it place on the 45 mark slightly overhanging the rebate glue and screw then trim the overhang you then have a very basic right and left handed shooting board

Dennis


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## Brent (14 Jun 2008)

Apparently you can buy a shooting board. I googled it and came up with this from HNT Gordon, though making one is not hard at all.
http://www.hntgordon.com.au/shootingboards.htm


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## andyavast (14 Jun 2008)

I made my first shooting board recently, and it was easier than I thought it would be. It took me a while to get round to it because I was well aware of the accuracy issue and wasn't sure I would be able to make it good enough with my limited resources, but I eventually took the plunge. 

It is made of mdf and a bit of cherry that I planed square and true all round and its held together with brass screws. Form followed function but it turned out quite pretty... it works well which is a bonus also  I just use fag paper shims to adjust the workpiece to make up for the tiny errors which crept in during the build but I can square up stock to my satisfaction with no problems. 

Next bit to build is a mitre fence. I'm sure I can do it now I have built the board to my satisfaction... Have confidence in yourself pal, and do it like there ain't nothing to it! :roll:  

Andy.


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## Harbo (14 Jun 2008)

Wizer - have a look at David C's one on Alf's web ( she has a lot of different ones featured but David's is the simplest to make).
You can make it out odd bits of ply or mdf - I have one made from a melamine surfaced kitchen unit door!
You will need two bits of panel about 20" to 24" long and the one going on top to be about 2" narrow - this needs to have a straight edge as the plane runs along it. Screw/fasten one to the other. The only other really straight bit is for the stop. Fasten this with one screw and then using a square, set the stop at right angles to the running edge - secure firmly with some more screws. The bench support underneath does not need to be that accurate.
You can make a simple mitre using a 45 degree set square. Cut it out as shown on the plans and then if it is not accurate, using the set square against the stop to get the correct angle, you can true it up accurately by shooting.
It's really easy - honest!  

Rod


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## wizer (14 Jun 2008)

Thanks guys. I do have quite a few good links on making them. Maybe I was being a little lazy too. I might have a go tomorrow.

Is there an ideal plane to use? I only have a No.4 Stanley. Is it really worth getting a dedicated plane?


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## Harbo (14 Jun 2008)

As long as the sides are at right angles to the sole any reasonable sized plane should work.
As you are generally planing end grain, low angled planes are better.
I got fed up taking skin off my knuckles with my other planes and bought a dedicated mitre plane - a LN No. 9.

Rod


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Jun 2008)

Hi Wizer

I have quite a comprehensive article on my website that covers types of shooting boards, tuning them up, using them, and making a simple one. I am sure that you should be able to turn out a usable accurate tool from this.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Setting Up and Using a Shooting Board4.html

(It is also on the _FWW_ site, but I struggle to find things there).

If you are still desparate to buy a shooting board, then try Michaul Connor (in Australia): http://www.michealconnorwoodwork.com.au/workbenchesaccessories.htm

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

Hi Wizer, 

If you buy one what's to say it won't be 'out of truth'?
 

Have a go at making one.

Regards
John


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

I like Newt's shooting-board. He even incorporated a form of 'donkey's-ear' for 'box-mitres'. Nice one Newt. You've given me an idea.
Thank you.

Regards
John


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":1zkofnem said:


> Thanks guys. I do have quite a few good links on making them. Maybe I was being a little lazy too. I might have a go tomorrow.
> 
> Is there an ideal plane to use? I only have a No.4 Stanley. Is it really worth getting a dedicated plane?



Wizer, 
If you mean which plane to use for truing the running edge of your board, I would say a good jack would do the job on the length you would use for a shooting board. I made my very first one using a No. 4 smoother 'cos it was all I had. 

Regards
John


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## Joe (15 Jun 2008)

I like David Finck's version on the Fine Woodworking site. This has a two-piece planing stop - one part is fixed, the other part, which fits over it, is movable. The advantage of this is that not only can wear be compensated for, but shims can be placed between the fixed and moving parts of the fence, rather than the fence and the work-piece. In the latter case, a shim towards the end of the piece being planed would lift it away from the fence, increasing the risk of "spelching". With Finck's design this problem is avoided.

Joel


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Jun 2008)

> This has a two-piece planing stop - one part is fixed, the other part, which fits over it, is movable.



Hi Joe

I consider the alignment of fence end with work end is over-rated. The fact is, with a "tight" set up, that occasionally the plane will cant a smidgeon and the blade will glance (best case) or hit (worst case) the edge of the fence.

I shudder to think what would happen to the blade if this occurred on my Stanley #51/52! :shock: 

I am able to plane end grain very cleanly by making sure that the rear end of the board has a small bevel. I work to plane up to, but not over, the base of this bevel.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > This has a two-piece planing stop - one part is fixed, the other part, which fits over it, is movable.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do I sense a gloat? You lucky beggar!

Regards
John


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Jun 2008)

Hi John

The #51/52 was a gloat about a year ago. It was also the subject of much restoration. Today it is a working tool - well, then, so is my ramped shooting board.

The story of the restoration is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestorations/Restoring a Stanley 5152.html

So, no, I was not trying to gloat - just make a point about the alignment of fence and work. But my thanks for the reminder that it is indeed very gloatable.  

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Joe (15 Jun 2008)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> I consider the alignment of fence end with work end is over-rated. The fact is, with a "tight" set up, that occasionally the plane will cant a smidgeon and the blade will glance (best case) or hit (worst case) the edge of the fence.



For minute adjustments in length I find it difficult to use the beveled rear edge method. But I guess if I'm honest Derek, I never really achieve the "tight" set up. I always end up tipping the plane a bit at some point, and don't often bother readjusting the fence. It's a nice theory though.

Regards

Joel


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

Hi Derek, 
Indeed it is a gloatworthy tool. I have had the opportunity to buy one, but much as I would like one, I refuse to pay the price that 'collectors' have forced on it. 

I have more than enough planes, but I still don't consider myself a collector. I use all of my planes; the reson for having three or four smoothers, is so I can switch without trouble, as soon one blade becomes dulled.

In common with many practicing woodworkers I think, that it's a shame collectors have pushed the price of fine tools through the roof!

But not to worry. Jim Kingshott left us plenty of information to make our own 51/52! (For the time when I have done all the woodwork SWIMBO wants). 
ccasion5: 

Cheers Derek, and enjoy your 51/52.

John


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## johnjin (15 Jun 2008)

Hi John 
I quite agree that collectors have pushed the price of these tools up, but if it wasn't for collectors, I wonder just how many of these old tools would still be around. I think we should be thankful for the collectors as they have preserved and most often restored these tools to something like original condition.
Just in case you are wondering I am definitely not a collector.

All the best

John


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## Joe (15 Jun 2008)

johnjin":2mdnag28 said:


> Just in case you are wondering I am definitely not a collector.



I hope I detect a hint of irony in that statement John. I don't believe there are any woodworkers whose acquisition of tools is based _strictly_ on practical and/or economic necessity.

Joel


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## Benchwayze (15 Jun 2008)

Aww ok.. I do buy tools sometimes because they are, well... just nice. But I couldn't justify 4 figures for a Holtey, however good they are. If I did buy one, I would be frit to use it, for fear of marking it! 
I also see the irony that without collectors, some of these older tools wouldn't be around at all these days. 

I have a guitar that poses a similar problem. So expensive to insure, that I have to take a risk, if I want to use it on a gig! But then, as my gigging days are few and far between, it doesn't really matter. ccasion5: 

Regards
John


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## bugbear (16 Jun 2008)

Joe":8psdxgli said:


> I like David Finck's version on the Fine Woodworking site. This has a two-piece planing stop - one part is fixed, the other part, which fits over it, is movable. The advantage of this is that not only can wear be compensated for, but shims can be placed between the fixed and moving parts of the fence, rather than the fence and the work-piece. In the latter case, a shim towards the end of the piece being planed would lift it away from the fence, increasing the risk of "spelching". With Finck's design this problem is avoided.
> 
> Joel



That's very similar to the board on the "White Mountain" site:

http://www.fineboxes.com/ShootingBoard.htm

BugBear


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## bugbear (16 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":1sunx08c said:


> Is there anywhere that sells shooting boards? I don't really feel confident enough to make one that is dead accurate.



You're probably worrying too much:

1) You can use an inaccurate board to make accurate mitres by using it with shims.

2) If you make a two piece fence (see the rest of the thread) you can make it first, and tune it for accuracy later

BugBear


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## johnjin (16 Jun 2008)

Ok Joel
You caught me out with that one :wink: 
Best wishes

John


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## lurker (16 Jun 2008)

I was admiring a 51 52 combo only the other day, that is in regular use.
Lovely tools!

As a matter of interest, how much do these sell for? 
I believe the one I saw cost £1000 a few yeas ago.


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## bugbear (16 Jun 2008)

lurker":3legt3wx said:


> I was admiring a 51 52 combo only the other day, that is in regular use.
> Lovely tools!
> 
> As a matter of interest, how much do these sell for?
> I believe the one I saw cost £1000 a few yeas ago.



AFAIK that's "the going rate"

BugBear


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## OPJ (16 Jun 2008)

WiZeR, why don't you trust the Bosch mitre saw? I find it helps to to lock the head so it cannot travel forwards - but, I guess it depends on how wide the mitres are that you are wanting to cut... Do you not have a table saw?

Sorry, I know, this is a Hand Tool forum!  If you're worried about the stop/fence moving as you screw it in place, that's easy to solve... After counterboring the two holes for the screwheads, fix one in place. Then, adjust it to match your square and clamp it in place. Check it again... If it's still okay then drive the screw home.


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## wizer (16 Jun 2008)

Thanks all. Been off colour since I posted this so haven't had a chance to play.

Olly. It's not really that I distrust it's accuracy (which I have found to be very good.) It's more the quality of the cut and for 'tweaking'. I realise a finer blade and a tighter insert will improve the cut. There is also very small pieces which can be a bit dangerous on the SCMS

The Triton isn't really setup to the best of it's ability at the moment, I have kinda set my sights on a replacement.

Ultimately guess I also wanted to explore slightly quieter approach.


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## wizer (17 Jun 2008)

Well had an hour in the workshop today and made some progress.







The Base is 18mm Ply 300mm x 500mm with a 200mm wide piece on top . I picked up some cutting board material in Wilko. I don't think it's the same stuff as Newt's. It only about 1.5mm thick. But it's more slippery than the ply alone so should be some improvement. For the fence I am using a piece of hardwood, anyone guess what it is? 






I got as far as screwing the top to the bottom and had to call it a day. I have to affix the fence next. Need to read up about the best way to do that.

See I can get my buttocks in gear occasionally!


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## wizer (17 Jun 2008)

Excuse me while I think out loud. 

Been doing some reading and there seems to be 2 ways of making the fence adjustable. 1. For squareness, rotating on one pin whilst securing on another. 2. For 'lengthening' the fence, moving towards the plane to replace damaged or 'over planed' fence end.

I wonder which is most important and indeed if there is a way to kill both birds with a single stone?

Something like..






Would have to be quite chunky angle and dead square.


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## Tusses (17 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":1upezbq7 said:


> Something like..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks more like OSB or chipboard than ply to me


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## woodbloke (17 Jun 2008)

Your No 1 idea is the most important. If you mangle up the end it's quite easy then to just replace with another bit of timber...getting is square _and_ adjustable is crucial - Rob


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## Jake (17 Jun 2008)

Just clamp a bit of scrap square with the engineering square, clamp the fence to the scrap, check it is square, and screw the fence down and move on!


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## bugbear (18 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":2dm8sj9r said:


> Excuse me while I think out loud.
> 
> Been doing some reading and there seems to be 2 ways of making the fence adjustable. 1. For squareness, rotating on one pin whilst securing on another. 2. For 'lengthening' the fence, moving towards the plane to replace damaged or 'over planed' fence end.
> 
> I wonder which is most important and indeed if there is a way to kill both birds with a single stone?



Use the "White Mountain" two part stop. Easy to make, adjust, maintain, and replace.

It's simply a working "face piece" screwed onto the main stop.

BugBear


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## woodbloke (18 Jun 2008)

Jake":1240f7so said:


> Just clamp a bit of scrap square with the engineering square, clamp the fence to the scrap, check it is square, and screw the fence down and move on!


Jake - in my experience, that don't work  The torque action of finally tightening the screws shifts the fence out of square by the tiniest fraction. The way I do it is to make the hole nearest the runway an interference fit for a traditional No10 steel wood screw (with a shank of plain steel) the hole furthest away is a sloppyish fit for a big cheesehead screw with a large washer underneath...this gives an element of adjustability so that the fence can be locked down dead square when it's set up at 90deg - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":37fxxbbn said:


> I wonder which is most important and indeed if there is a way to kill both birds with a single stone?



If you feel confident with the router, then you could go for the wedge type. like this











Then if the end gets mangled, knock out the wedge, take a shaving off the sloping side, knock it back in and trim up the end  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Jake (18 Jun 2008)

woodbloke":3uctzuw3 said:


> Jake":3uctzuw3 said:
> 
> 
> > Just clamp a bit of scrap square with the engineering square, clamp the fence to the scrap, check it is square, and screw the fence down and move on!
> ...



It worked for me, as verified by Moore & Wright, and saved me a bunch of fussing about making a really rather basic tool.


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## woodbloke (18 Jun 2008)

Jake - agreed, it's a pretty simple tool, but I tried it about three times as you suggest and each time when a test piece (say 100mm wide) was shot it weren't square, it was out just a fraction. I concluded that the final tightening of the screw at the far end of the fence was skewing it enough to cause the error...hence the reason why I went for the adjustable option. A little more complicated, agreed, in such a simple device but one that I thought was warranted - Rob


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## Jake (18 Jun 2008)

Dunno what to say,cramp the pipper harder? 

I used pan-head screws (in a counterbore) - were you using CSKs, perhaps?


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## woodbloke (18 Jun 2008)

Jake - yup, I was using standard 4 or 4.5mm Pozidrive csk screws...maybe that's what was doing it? Dunno, works now tho' - Rob


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## Jake (18 Jun 2008)

Could be - the CSK head will wedge itself down into the countersink, moving the countersunk thing to achieve a fit if the countersink is a bit off. 

That's why I went for pan head and some of those star washer things to give some bite.


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## woodbloke (18 Jun 2008)

Jake - thinking about it, that's probably what was happening in that the countersink was slightly out of kilter with the main hole - Rob


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## wizer (18 Jun 2008)

Thanks chaps. Made some good progress on it today tho might have made a bit of a balls up. My idea was to run M6 coach bolt from underneath, counter bored and then glued. Seems fine but got a horrible feeling the glue won't set properly (old gripfil). Got to pop out, will check it when I get in.


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## newt (18 Jun 2008)

WiZer, looking good so far, keep us in the picture as there are other folk out there that can benefit from this.


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## TheDudester (18 Jun 2008)

I for one am very interested in this thread. I think I have a handle on things now, but have had a mental block re: shooting boards for a long time.

I can see the benefits and loved the detail that went into newt's.

I think it is a case of just trying and seeing what happens.

D


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## bugbear (18 Jun 2008)

TheDudester":tkv3dd4k said:


> I can see the benefits and loved the detail that went into newt's.



But did you see the "lack of rocket science" that went into Alf's ?

BugBear


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## TheDudester (18 Jun 2008)

bugbear":3v1j6800 said:


> TheDudester":3v1j6800 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see the benefits and loved the detail that went into newt's.
> ...



Going to look at it now....


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## wizer (18 Jun 2008)

Quick update. Got back from the hospital and popped out to the workshop to see if the glue had set. It has, thankfully, but I wouldn't use that method again. For the mitre fence, I am going to use an inverted T Nut from underneath. So that Fence can be screwed in. More tomorrow with pics.


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## bugbear (19 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":iqjntmza said:


> Is there anywhere that sells shooting boards?



Historical note; there used to be.

I'm fairly sure that Emir used to do them.

BugBear


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## Smudger (19 Jun 2008)

I think I've got one - either that or made in the LCC workshops and issued out to schools in the 50s.
Schools used to have a lot of Emir stuff.


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## wizer (19 Jun 2008)

Here we go then:

Finished it off this morning.







Then made a mitre fence.






I had a quick play but had to get on with other things. Will do some proper tests over the weekend.






Thanks all for your help and patience.


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## newt (19 Jun 2008)

There you go wiZer,looks like you cracked it.


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