# Kitchen Refresh - WIP - Now finished.



## RobertMP (9 Sep 2008)

I wasn't going to start posting until after my upcoming holiday but as I've started cutting up the MR MDF and took a couple of pictures i thought i may as well start the thread off. I'm hoping logging my progress on here might spur me to get on with it as I seem to have developed a knack of leaving things until tomorrow 

Anyway my take on board cutting...

Need a lot of strips to stick round the edge of the doors to simulate panels so I cut a piece off of one 6mm sheet to use as a straight edge. Set my rule stop to allow for the blade offset on the saw and cut loads of 66mmstrips for my 60 mm finished edging. I cut the 2 sheets of 6mm together. The big vice is there to weigh the middle down so the board doesn't try to lift as i pass with the saw.

















Then 2 sheets of 12mm got cut to 716 + 498 and a bit of clean up allowance. Very tight out of 1220mm width but it should be OK.






Lunch now


----------



## jasonB (9 Sep 2008)

Robert can I suggest you have less blade sticking out of the saw. Not only is it much safer you will find that the blade exits at a shallower angle therefore giving less of a ragged edge on exit.

Would also be better to cut from the left to right, this will keep the wider part of the saw base in contact with "solid" board and stop the saw wobbling or be ing pulled down by th eweight of the hose.

I have the same saw and find these things give a better cut on the rare occasion that I now use the corded circ saw, though the same applies to using a cordless and blade depth on the table saw.

Keep up the good work
Jason.


----------



## RobertMP (9 Sep 2008)

Thanks. I'll reduce the depth of cut. Plenty more cutting to do yet. I can't cope with the cutting the other way idea - apart from feeling awkward the motor housing makes clamping more difficult. Stability is quite good right up to the last bit of cut and I'm ready for it then. The 8ft x 2ft bench with 1" hardwood ply top helps as the edge is supported all the way.


----------



## pren (9 Sep 2008)

So far, so good, Robert  .

If you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for the MR-MDF? It looks like it does cut cleaner than regular MDF, from what I can see in the pics.

Cheers.
Bryn


----------



## RobertMP (9 Sep 2008)

The MR MDF came from Blumsons in Barking. I collected it using the roofrack on the car so I don't know what delivery would cost.

Ex VAT prices...

2 sheets of 6mm (stamped 'Medite' on the edge) £9.38/sheet

4 sheets of 12mm (No ID on this thickness) £17.66/sheet

1 sheet of 18mm (Medite) £23.48

I didn't try to bluff I was trade or anything so those are their retail prices. Came to about £136 in total.

With my limited experience of working with it so far I prefer it to the std stuff. It cuts a bit cleaner and the dust seems to settle quicker.


----------



## pren (9 Sep 2008)

Is that for 1220 x 2440 or 610 x 1220 sheets?

If it works cleaner than the standard MDF, I'll definately give it a try for my next MDF jobs.

Many thanks!

Bryn


----------



## RobertMP (9 Sep 2008)

all 1220 x 2440. or 8 by 4 in old money


----------



## RobertMP (9 Sep 2008)

Thought I'd add the sketchup that I did a while back. Didn't draw in the hob and sink. doorways and window openings are shown though as is some intruding building structure.











The drawers are now std size at the top and larger below rather than all equal and the carcase end panels will all have a 'door' fixed to them rather than be plain as drawn.

Next time the kitchen is tidy I'll post a picture or 2 of the existing view.


----------



## RobertMP (10 Sep 2008)

Set up for cross cutting the 12mm. I use 2 strips of laminate flooring glued and screwed together and trimmed to the blade. laminate is nice and straight and slides easily on the saw. I have a rectangle of laminate I bolt to the saw foot to keep the saw horizontal. Some scraps of plywood space the panel off the bench. Only forgot to adjust the cut so I miss the bench a couple of times :lol:
All the panels are oversize to allow for trimming once glued.







It looked like an awful lot of strips when I finished cutting the 6mm MR MDF..... now it looks like an awful lot of everything.





Stacked the manageable panels on the bench but it still looks a lot! Wonder if you can buy superglue by the gallon :lol:





Might have to consider some other glueing options. I'll start cutting and edging the strips tomorrow. looking forward to my holiday now


----------



## OPJ (10 Sep 2008)

I like your 'setting gauge' and I'm impressed you are able to cut all this up _inside_ your workshop! :shock: :wink:


----------



## RobertMP (10 Sep 2008)

My shop vac does a pretty good job - it's an industrial one that I kept when I closed my business. Also took the plate fan with me that also does an excellent job.... of propelling air out through the end wall of the workshop. Hopefully the greenhouse just outside is not too dusty :lol:


----------



## wizer (10 Sep 2008)

Coming on nicely.

I made a setting gauge after I saw Steve Maskery's DVD. Very useful, tho I cheated and used a length of T-Track Plus


----------



## joiner_sim (10 Sep 2008)

So far looking great! I am not confident enough with a curcular saw to cut that much. I would be more tempted to get my builder merchant to cut it all to size for me on their panel saw, or take it to the commercial workshop and cut it on our panel saw there.


----------



## RobertMP (11 Sep 2008)

Cut all the strips to length, prepared one edge and then cut square to dead length on those that fit inside the others. Sanded all the edges because they will be hard to get to once glued...... and it was all remarkably easy! MR MDF cuts nicer and sands to a smooth edge so much easier than std MDF.

Thought I'd only manage the cutting and some of the sanding today - instead I got it all cut and sanded and even glued the strips on a few drawer faces 






Need to think about the best way to position the strips on the larger panels to keep them square and central. Been using the mitre pro superglue to attach them. Dead easy to do but you don't get second chances :lol:


----------



## RobertMP (12 Sep 2008)

So far I've taken the simple approach with the larger panels. Double checked they were square cut, measured the width then took off the 'panel' width in the middle, divided that by 2 and scribed a line down the edge with my vernier.






The one bottle (and aerosol spray) of Mitre Pro went a surprisingly long way. 2 more packs might be enough.






Having applied the superglue to the strips I took the panel off the table and gave it a quick spray round the edge with the activator. back on the table and on with the strips.

After all that work I deserve a holiday... to be continued in 2 weeks


----------



## tsb (13 Sep 2008)

Is there enough glue on the strips to stick them to the panel. I only ask because I'm in the process of having a go at some similar doors.


----------



## RobertMP (14 Oct 2008)

Bit slow in getting back to this thread 

Answer to above question first - I did have to knock one strip off quick after a second or so and the glue had spread out to nearly cover the whole surface. 3 seconds and it would have had to stay there :lol:

---
I have been working since getting back from my holiday...

So, I had all these door and drawer face panels and i needed to trim them to size and have them square edged. I don't have a table saw so all my cutting is with laminate floor strips made into saw guide tracks. With the requirement to cut a square edge i came up with this -




The whole thing is hinged to the back of the table and the piece of kitchen worktop I used as a base for the work piece has a MDF square edge screwed to one side. because it is hinged it always comes down in the same place and is always square to the square edge stop.
Worked really well and i trimmed all the panels in no time just positioning them to measured pencil marks aligned to the cutting edge.
The saw guide presses down on the top edge and the worktop piece supports the bottom edge so there was no chip out on either face 

just to show I do make some mess...





A length of 4x2 attached to the straight edge lets me clamp the jig down at the ends and as it was slightly bowed provides pressure in the middle too. The piece on the right in this picture is to support the saw squarely. there is a 3x2 batten on the underside attached at the ends to the hinged arms.





Close up view of the stack of cut panels showing the finish from the saw





The whole stack.





One thing I wanted to add to the kitchen was 3 plinth drawers to go in the unused space below some of the base units.They will only be used for near forgotten stuff so strength was not an issue - hence using up odd scraps of MDF to made the sides. I used up drawer runners I had rather than buy anything for the job.





2" long M6 bolts into holes in the side provide the fixing method. The nuts act as jacks pushing the unit firmly up against the underside of the base usit. worked really well. Was easy to get in position then spin the nut by hand to take the slack followed by a few fiddly turns with a spanner. I don't have 2 drawers next to each other or I would have seen a flaw in the plan  The fronts are screwed on and easy to remove when the time comes to paint them.




There is plenty of PU glue holding them together so the one place the MDF did crack is not a problem.

The doors are now all sanded (which was pretty easy) and have the hinge holes drilled. They are ready for painting but I want to get as much made as possible before starting on clean things.





I have a few Large doors to make yet. new fridge freezer arrives Friday and I have a larder size boiler cupboard to do. Not to mention cornices etc. long way to go yet!


----------



## Rich (14 Oct 2008)

Absolutely fascinating, such ingenuity and so simple, thanks for showing us Robert, I can hardly wait for the next instalment.

Regards,

Rich.


----------



## Woodmagnet (15 Oct 2008)

I agree with Ritch, Robert.


----------



## RobertMP (23 Oct 2008)

Next was the boiler cupboard. Didn't take any pictures during this!

These scraps show the softwood section I produced on the router table to trim the sides of the cupboard so that I could mount similar style doors to it to match the kitchen.





I have temporarily fitted the doors that I just made. They have not been filled or sanded. The softwood trim is screw fixed so everything can be demounted when i get to the painting stage. The eagle eyed may notice the strip I placed wrongly and lifted straight off in a panic  . As I didn't press down the superglue did not spread much. Sanded the door panel for re-glueing but it was easier to just turn the strip over and sand the glue off another time! used my old compact camera for these shots hence the lens distortion - it is straight honest..





And so to the drawers....

I looked at so many drawer runners and boxes and all of the good ones seemed pretty expensive. Ikea sell drawers as accessories and the price of a drawer with soft close is considerably less than I can buy a soft close system elsewhere - and they run very nicely.

Problem then is that Ikea don't do standard sizes! I need 6 drawers for 500mm bases units and of the 4 styles I need they only do one of them in 500 width. So I bought 400mm drawers and modified them 

Ikea standard drawers are 500mm deep (front to back) but having checked, with a bit of modification to the base unit back panel position, that will not be a problem.

3 drawers need to be shallow because of a column in the way and Ikea do a 350mm deep drawer that is perfect depth (but not width of course).

As an example a 350mm x 400mm drawer with soft close is £17 and it does seem a quality mechanism.





metal back panels.





Home made base panels to correct width and same depth at originals.





End plates attacked with hacksaw





didn't take long 





So there is a bit missing. I was intending to bridge the gap with something wooden but as i still have a few metalworking tools I set to with some sheet aluminium.





I kept a fly press from my business closure a couple of years ago and setting it up with a vee bending tool was the first use it has had to date! 
Sheet metal punch came in handy too as did the air rivet gun.





Considering it will be at the back of the drawer and hardly ever seen it does not look too bad once spray painted (aerosol). Again the camera is making it look a little curved when it is straight (and strong).





So with the drawers prepared I cut some strips ready to glue together for a cornice profile for the top of the wall cupboards. 3 at 2.4m long and one at 1.2m should cover it.





need to work out the best way to glue them lengthways now. Mitre adhesive may be a bit too challenging 

Still plenty to do but the list is going down. Setback on the fridge freezer - miller brothers having promised me a delivery date changed their tune when I chased them to not actually having one. They debited my card and have not yet refunded... and my statement date has now come.... grrr!!


----------



## RobertMP (7 Nov 2008)

Update on the cornice/ pelmet/ whatever you call it - Now all glued and cut and mitred






Also made a glass panel door





And a beading strip that works quite well. This is a test piece. I've mitred the ends on the ones for the door.





And at last everything is made! I spent the entire day yesterday cleaning and hoovering the entire workshop in order to reduce the chances of dust getting in or on my paintwork.... then I realised i needed some painting jigs and promptly made some more sawdust to clean up!

This is a screwfix roller stand with the roller bar removed and a bit of 1" square tube in its place. I made this when i was practicing a few months ago by spraying the workshop cupboard doors. A bit of steel tube drops over the square tube and welded to it are 3 arms. messy welds using stick on thin tube but it holds  . Anyway a big ball bearing sitting on the top of the square tube means it rotates quite nicely with just enough friction to stay put.





the idea is to paint both sides of the panel in one visit - which i could do with the stand as it is - but I'd have to leave the panel on the stand to dry. So I cut some plywood triangles and put a 30 mm screw in each corner. means i can paint and handle 15 panels at a time.





Time to get my spray booth out of the cupboard 





The box locates to the frame around my plate extractor





And unfolded. Another frame (not in the picture) with a cloth filter then goes into the front of the extractor so the fan does not get covered in paint.





I paint the back first. I put a couple of bits of cardboard near the fan to baffle the worst of the overspray from the filter so it lasts longer.





3 small contact points don't notice on the back. Sprayed the edges first including the internal ones.





Then the rest of the face.... now i just have to carry it using the triangle underneath and not touch the wet paint 





Stacking space is a problem of course. I have a bit of spur shelving that can be temporarily fitted to the garage door....





And have screwed a few battens at high level so that I can gingerly put some over head height and out of the way. I may have 15 triangles but i don't think I have room for 15 panels :lol:





Oh and you can see my practice grey paint on the workshop cupboard doors (B & Q 50p clearance paint ! )


----------



## RobertMP (18 Nov 2008)

No new pictures to add but a brief update.
Primer went quite well but took ages (days!) to dry hard enough for rubbing down. Must be the cold damp weather and it being water based paint. Anyway it is all done and the edges are as smooth as the faces.

Top coat (Dulux Trade eggshell) so far has not gone so well. Seem to be having dust in the paint (or more likely still on the panel) problems. Got some paint filters and tack cloths on order so hope that will sort the problem.

Sprayed 2 test panels only so far. Apart from the dust the first one had fish eye problems too. Wiped the second one with white spirit before spraying which has fixed that problem... but not the dust. At least we like the colour!

Always knew this stage could take some time but it could be a long haul even by my drawn out standards! Will post more pictures once I'm making progress again.


----------



## RobertMP (22 Nov 2008)

Well I've wasted a fair bit of time on this 'dust' problem and have worked out that it is not dust after all.

The problem seems to be with the Leyland MDF primer that i have used. The primer sealed the surface well and rubbed down to make nice smooth edges.

It is very difficult to take close up pictures of a smooth surface but...











The darker 'spots' or flecks are where a bit of grain raised on the MDF and was removed by me rubbing it down. The surface looks smooth and feels smooth. (The pencil line was to help the camera focus btw)

So I put some Dulux trade Eggshell on my nice smooth primed panel. the coat goes on and is nice and level and wet. Then whilst I watch 'dust' erupts in the paint and the surface starts to look like I have just been emptying the shop vac whilst the paint is wet! 











Pictures are taken with the window in the distance so the light skims the surface.

So all a bit depressing but at least i now know what is happening - the undercoat is reacting with the eggshell. So I did some tests. Another brand of eggshell reacts less but still reacts. Unsanded MDF undercoat reacts exactly the same as the sanded so it is not the sanding process.

Went back to the paint shop. Guy says he has never heard of this problem before and offers to give me Leylands tech dept number. Much as I'd like to understand the problem all i want is a solution. He says the answer to any difficult surface is usually Dulux trade undercoat. So I buy a tin. There is a very slight reaction still but nothing compared to before .

Finally I'm back in production! The slight reaction to the undercoat should knock off easily with some wet and dry... then I should be able to get back to top coating.

Live and learn.

The Fuji spray system has been generally fine though there are a couple of criticisms I have. The fan control (by screwing the air cap in or out) is clumsy compared to a conventional gun with a screw for the fan supply. It doesn't produce what I'd call a nice fan pattern at any setting so I'm using it as a basic gun with no fan. The other thing I have found is it is easy to get paint in the small tube supplying pressure to the paint reservior... and ruin the one way valve in the small air line.


----------



## RobertMP (27 Nov 2008)

As you may have seen here My painting problems took more sorting out than i imagined. Annoying as the problems were it is satisfying to have finally found the source of the trouble.

This is the intake air filter from the Fuji Q3





The paint dust and black crumbling 'rubber' from the sponge filter covered the paper with just a couple of squeezes. I've kept the unit well away from all spraying and the light soiling was from previous use ( I bought it used). The dust that was released into the system only really reacted with eggshell paint so I may never have noticed it otherwise.

Anyway with no filter save a bit of T shirt taped over the intake area and a temporary hose it is working beautifully.

Finally I have been able to get something done that I am happy with the finish on.

This is the first set of parts I have painted. Installed today. The wood pattern MFC on the carcases has been scuff sanded and primed with melamine primer + 2 coats of mini roller applied eggshell to the visible edges.






better view of the tired Oak doors that are being replaced.





Probably amounts to something like a quarter to a third of all the panels and trims so plenty more to get on and paint yet!

Have to say I like Blum hinges. Mine came from Ikea so as per normal with Ikea they are not quite standard (these have a different mounting plate that means drilling new holes) but still they go on nicely and are so easy to adjust.


----------



## joiner_sim (27 Nov 2008)

It looks fantastic! I saw this topic when it first started, and to go from all them pieces of MDF, to something actually finished and looking great really is quite good!

I can tell the spray painting with the eggshell became annoying, but glad you've sorted it out now!

Where I work they tried to use a spray gun (it completley went against H&S, no spray booth or extraction!) they were trying to use it with the leyland primer, water-based. And as I remember it took ages to dry!!! That stuff only takes about 30 minutes to dry when applied with a brush. I'm happy to say were brushing it on again now, it took forever to dry!


----------



## DangerousDave (1 Dec 2008)

That looks fantastic Robert, good job well worth the effort. We have the exact same oak kitchen; replacing it is on my very long to do list :roll: If you were to do it again would you spray or brush/roller the paint? The finish looks great but is it really worth the extra effort and time?


----------



## RobertMP (19 Dec 2008)

Well I finished it eventually 

There is always something more that could be done and there is something that may get changed early next year (we don't like the glass door much so it may change to solid) but I think I'll call it finished now!

Some pictures
















I added 3 plinth drawers. you can see 2 of them here.





I've not been keeping close tabs on the cost but if I had to guess I'd put it at around £600 for a newish kitchen with new soft close doors and drawers.

I'm pleased with it. plan is to continue new flooring through from the hall so it should look even better then 

Just so it is tied in my painting problems thread is here and I'm about to add some pictures of cleaning the gun for addition to the tips there.


----------



## Paul Chapman (19 Dec 2008)

Looks good, Robert =D> 

Cheers :ho2 

Paul


----------



## Racers (19 Dec 2008)

Hi,

Your kitchen is looking really good.

Pete


----------



## wizer (19 Dec 2008)

oh very nice indeed, looks like something out of one of those home magazines.

I see what your saying about the glass door. What about putting some lights in there and storing something a bit more showy? Like a colection of coloured glasses? Or does that just sound awful ?


----------



## Chems (19 Dec 2008)

Looks great, I love the little draws at the bottom!


----------



## Chris Knight (20 Dec 2008)

Robert,
It looks terrific. A good reward for all the hard work and ingenuity you put into it.

Thanks very much for such an entertaining thread.


----------



## Mattty (20 Dec 2008)

That kitchen looks great, and your trouble shooting in both threads was an excellent learning tool. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully you'll get out of Christmas day washing up now! :ho2


----------



## Brian Jackson (1 Nov 2009)

RobertMP":zx4u5icw said:


> The MR MDF came from Blumsons in Barking. I collected it using the roofrack on the car so I don't know what delivery would cost.
> 
> Ex VAT prices...
> 
> ...



Crikey,a sheet of MDF here in NZ costs 10 pounds.(18mm)

A sheet of 18mm melamine is 18 pounds.


----------



## RobertMP (1 Nov 2009)

Think the air fare might make it more expensive for me to shop there 

Think I'd enjoy the shopping trip though. NZ is on the list of places I'd like to visit.

standard MDF here is about 2/3rds the price of this green coloured moisture resistant stuff.


----------



## Brian Jackson (1 Nov 2009)

RobertMP":24uhiocs said:


> Think the air fare might make it more expensive for me to shop there
> 
> Think I'd enjoy the shopping trip though. NZ is on the list of places I'd like to visit.
> 
> standard MDF here is about 2/3rds the price of this green coloured moisture resistant stuff.


Thanks for info Robert,I am always interested in variation in prices round the world,Australia is even less expensive than here.

The moisture resistant stuff has not reached yet,will make some enquiries


----------



## JonnyD (1 Nov 2009)

As a trade user i expect to pay about £9.50 to £10 a sheet plus vat for standard 18mm MDF and around £12.50 a sheet for the moisture resistant grade. 

cheers

Jon


----------



## head clansman (1 Nov 2009)

hi 

i thought oh no another mdf kitchen , but hey , neat , and i love the finish. nice one .hc


----------



## RobertMP (1 Nov 2009)

bit of a bump from the dead this thread but 

Still looks good. Only downside has been the little ledge created by the 'panel' edge inside each door and drawer face catches crumbs really well and needs a bit of cleaning attention now and again. The Dulux trade eggshell does clean well though.

Just made some similar style doors for the bathroom airing cupboard but have radiused the strip edges to avoid creating such a defined ledge.


----------



## Ironballs (1 Nov 2009)

Smart looking modern kitchen, job well done


----------

