# Built in wardrobes tutorials!



## Charlie Woody (5 Feb 2013)

I have done a couple of built in wardrobes in the past and always thought that I had made life difficult for myself!

Does anybody know of any articles / books / youtube videos that show simple, accurate and effective techniques please?


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## AndyT (5 Feb 2013)

You've already found it!

Seriously, there are ten years' worth of posts on here, from professionals showing what they do every day through to beginners sharing the challenge of problem solving and things that don't go right first time.

Here are some posts found by searching for *wip built-in wardrobe*

Brad Naylor's "masterclass" - not actually a wardrobe but full of tested methods of work which would apply:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/four-mdf-alcove-units-wip-t30678.html

some more from other people

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/topic63397.html

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/in-built-wardrobe-t63606.html

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wip-fitted-wardrobes-finished-t32452.html

- there are lots more!


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## petermillard (5 Feb 2013)

Although *this thread* of mine was about workflow, the items under discussion were a pair of wardrobes and alcove units - might be of some help, in addition to the above?

Pete


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## chippy1970 (5 Feb 2013)

Another one for you https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=54351


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## Charlie Woody (6 Feb 2013)

Thanks to everyone for their helpful responses. I am learning a lot from these helpful posts. I have some questions for petermillard, particularly, however some of the questions are more general and hopefully everybody will chip in.

I am trying to understand how your “carcass cutlist spreadsheet” works.
It shows dimensions for flush door but rail and stiles shown below – why is that?
Under “door calc” groove 20mm is shown – what is this for as I thought the door panels were 6mm?
I don’t understand why you have 2 stiles, 2 rails and 2 rails & stiles. Looking at the drawing the door seems to have 2 stiles & 3 rails (top, middle & bottom). Could you explain please?
What are the formulae you have used for these calculations, so I can have a go at making my own in excel please?

When you say “rationalised” for the timber yard do you use something like MaxCut to produce the most efficient sheet cutting?

I don’t have a Domino but do have a biscuit jointer – will this work just as well?

If finish is applied to the various components before final assembly how do you stop it getting into the Domino (Biscuit) slots? Also if finish is on the edges to be glued won’t this reduce the glue “grab”?

You say you use angle plates screwed to the back of the wardrobes to fix them to the wall – how do you get at them to do this? If the angle plate is fixed to the wardrobe first and then placed in position with only a small clearance all around a unit I can’t see how you could get your hand between the wall and the carcass to fix to the wall.

How would you change your techniques to work with veneered MDF – filling holes where you screwed the carcase bottom to plinth, using a solid timber face frame rails & stiles etc?

The photo you show of the scribing shows a clamp, but I don’t see where you have clamped it to the carcass? Where I will be working is a Victorian house which has large skirting and coving – how would you work around these? Bradnaylor's photos show him offering the glued up face frame to one side of an alcove first, then the other - but how would you do it if the face frame had to fit within a deep alcove?

How do you lay out and drill for the hinges – for flush and inset doors?

Interesting you used hinges with built in soft closers. What model number are they – there seem to be some many variations? Last year I used some with clip on soft closers and they are a pain as they keep dropping off!! 

All the software you use is for smart phones / tablets neither of which I possess. Are there similar products for the old fashioned PC?

I have being trying to get my head around Sketchup but am still having problems with it – see attached a partially finished drawing. Is there something else that is easier to use and also free? Do I really need 3D or will 2D be ok. 







It has to fit over the door into the ensuite hence what appears to be a gap in the middle with a unit above. As you can see the drawing is only partially done. Is there a way of doing this wardrobe using less veneered MDF as its quite expensive to buy? A painted finish is not an option.

Due to the sloping ceiling all doors will need to be hung on the left side. I was going to make the faceframes 38mm wide (19mm sheet + 19mm sheet), but where the door to the ensuite is there is only one sheet. I think the left unit could have the 38mm faceframe flush to the outside edge creating an overhang on the inside of the carcass. However not sure how I could do this on the right hand unit as need to hang the door off that side! Plus not sure 19mm of a gap between house walls / ceiling and wardrobes will give enough wiggle room for out or square walls.

Another attempt at sketchup drawing with some more questions!!!






Thanks again and I look forward to your replies.


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## petermillard (6 Feb 2013)

Charlie Woody":2hpuahwk said:


> Thanks to everyone for their helpful responses. I am learning a lot from these helpful posts. I have some questions for petermillard, particularly, however some of the questions are more general and hopefully everybody will chip in.



Hi there - that's quite a list, I'll do my best...



> I am trying to understand how your “carcass cutlist spreadsheet” works.
> It shows dimensions for flush door but rail and stiles shown below – why is that?


Some carcasses have panel doors, some have flush doors - it's a multi-functional spreadsheet  you'll notice that there isn't a quantity listed for the flush door...



> Under “door calc” groove 20mm is shown – what is this for as I thought the door panels were 6mm?


That's for groove depth - used to calc the panel size from the rails and stiles...



> I don’t understand why you have 2 stiles, 2 rails and 2 rails & stiles.


OK, initial rails and stiles (separate entries) are to size, subsequent one ("rails & stiles") are the number of lengths of material (2440 x 100 in this example) I'll need to produce the doors - as guided by the ' rails and stiles per door' calc at the bottom...



> Looking at the drawing the door seems to have 2 stiles & 3 rails (top, middle & bottom). Could you explain please?


This worksheet wasn't set up to allow for a third rail at the time, so I treated it as a 2-rail door and added a third in 'manually' afterwards.



> What are the formulae you have used for these calculations, so I can have a go at making my own in excel please?


Not being funny, but better for you to work this out for yourself - mine has all kinds of 'idiosyncrasies' that make sense to me, but possibly not to anyone else! Happy to help with the basic formulae if you need it though - would probably do this as a separate reply as it would be better with examples..



> When you say “rationalised” for the timber yard do you use something like MaxCut to produce the most efficient sheet cutting?


No - I leave that to the yard; the guy on the panel saw is way more efficient than any software! By rationalise, I mean tidy up e.g. the single and double wardrobes I refer to in that thread are the same height and depth, so the carcass sides are common, but using this cultist spreadsheet, they show up as "2# 580 x 1950" twice - once or each carcass. I 'rationalise' this to a single entry of "4# 580 x 1950". Make sense? I also take out any references to phantom flush doors etc... 



> I don’t have a Domino but do have a biscuit jointer – will this work just as well?


I imagine they'll be fine, though I've never used biscuits on carcass construction personally - perhaps someone else will know more?



> If finish is applied to the various components before final assembly how do you stop it getting into the Domino (Biscuit) slots? Also if finish is on the edges to be glued won’t this reduce the glue “grab”?


I haven't found this to be a particular problem, but the vast majority of my work is painted; again, perhaps someone else can chime in on this one?



> You say you use angle plates screwed to the back of the wardrobes to fix them to the wall – how do you get at them to do this? If the angle plate is fixed to the wardrobe first and then placed in position with only a small clearance all around a unit I can’t see how you could get your hand between the wall and the carcass to fix to the wall.


Sorry, poorly worded. I either use angle plates or repair plates. Angle plates are set into the top of the carcass, so remain accessible, and repair plates are sets to the back of the carcass, with just a single hole showing above the carcass top.,



> How would you change your techniques to work with veneered MDF – filling holes where you screwed the carcase bottom to plinth, using a solid timber face frame rails & stiles etc?


I think I'd either use hardwood plugs to cover the screw-holes, or just use tongue-tite screws - they have a very small head, so can be easily 'lost' with a bit of e.g. wax stick.



> The photo you show of the scribing shows a clamp, but I don’t see where you have clamped it to the carcass? Where I will be working is a Victorian house which has large skirting and coving – how would you work around these? Bradnaylor's photos show him offering the glued up face frame to one side of an alcove first, then the other - but how would you do it if the face frame had to fit within a deep alcove?


The clamp was used as a spreader, and bears against the carcass base - or perhaps the shelf, can't remember tbh. With large/ornate skirts and cove, I usually start with a 'profile gauge' - I bought mine from a tile shop yonks ago - then make card templates until I get it right. Then the usual coping saw/jigsaw/whatever...



> How do you lay out and drill for the hinges – for flush and inset doors?


I use a 99p hinge marker from eBay - does the job.



> Interesting you used hinges with built in soft closers. What model number are they – there seem to be some many variations? Last year I used some with clip on soft closers and they are a pain as they keep dropping off!!


I get them from my timber yard - I'll have to check for a number when I'm back n the workshop.



> All the software you use is for smart phones / tablets neither of which I possess. Are there similar products for the old fashioned PC?


My workflow is almost all phone/tablet based now, but I'm sure there'll be something similar for the PC - perhaps a PC user can chip in here?



> I have being trying to get my head around Sketchup but am still having problems with it – see attached a partially finished drawing. Is there something else that is easier to use and also free? Do I really need 3D or will 2D be ok.


I gave up using sketch up a few years back - I found I was spending longer doing the drawings than I was making the stuff. I only use/supply 2-D drawings now; haven't noticed a dramatic drop-off in customers...

WRT your other Qs - I don't have a great deal of experience with face-frames tbh, so if you don't mind I'll let someone else pitch in here.

Hope this has helped - if not, do ask and I'll try to clarify.

Cheers, Pete.


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## ColeyS1 (6 Feb 2013)

You can get little natural wood veneer self adhesive stickers to cover the screws- then you can apply the same finish as the rest. It would mean you having to drill a shallow hole so the veneer sticker is flush


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## ColeyS1 (6 Feb 2013)

Ive used masking tape before when spraying laquer so the part that needs glue is left bare. If im using 19mm veneered mdf I use a slightly smaller tape


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## AndyT (6 Feb 2013)

Pete 

That post needs some sort of award for the level of helpful detail - this forum really can bring out the best in people!

=D> =D> =D>


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## Charlie Woody (6 Feb 2013)

Hi there - that's quite a list, I'll do my best...

Pete

Thanks a million for the initial post and detailed responses =D> =D> =D> ..... sorry I had so many questions. Luckily for you that you live so far away from me otherwise I would be asking could I come around to see all that clever software in action :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## petermillard (6 Feb 2013)

No problem - happy to,help and hope it all made some sense! I'll dig out the reference for the hinges tomorrow.

Cheers, Pete


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## chippy1970 (6 Feb 2013)

Charlie, biscuit jointer will be fine that's what I used in that thread of mine, I've now sold it and bought a domino though :grin::grin::grin:


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## Charlie Woody (7 Feb 2013)

chippy1970":1vff313x said:


> Charlie, biscuit jointer will be fine that's what I used in that thread of mine, I've now sold it and bought a domino though :grin::grin::grin:



Thanks Chippy.

Just wondering how you are coping with the loss of your biscuit jointer ..... must be so hard going down the Green & Black slippery path ?:lol:


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## chippy1970 (7 Feb 2013)

It was a good jointer a mafell one, to be honest I hadn't used it as much as I thought I would. I used it on that wardrobe job then a week later I contacted the shop and said I wasn't happy with it as a rubber foot had fallen off. They exchanged it for a complete new one so the guy who bought it off me pretty much got a brand new tool.

I swapped to the domino for a few reasons , one was I liked the fact that if building carcasses the front edges align perfectly when gluing up. With biscuits there's side to side play so you need to check alignment of the carcass sides. Another reason they were at an incredible price with free domino systainer.

I'm sure its gonna come in handy for many jobs.:grin:


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## Charlie Woody (7 Feb 2013)

chippy1970":18fsr7o1 said:


> It was a good jointer a mafell one, to be honest I hadn't used it as much as I thought I would. I used it on that wardrobe job then a week later I contacted the shop and said I wasn't happy with it as a rubber foot had fallen off. They exchanged it for a complete new one so the guy who bought it off me pretty much got a brand new tool.
> 
> I swapped to the domino for a few reasons , one was I liked the fact that if building carcasses the front edges align perfectly when gluing up. With biscuits there's side to side play so you need to check alignment of the carcass sides. Another reason they were at an incredible price with free domino systainer.
> 
> I'm sure its gonna come in handy for many jobs.:grin:



I have the mafell one too! It's coming up to 10 years old now (I can remember that as it was a pressie for one of those birthdays that end with a zero :lol: ). Axminster are having a Festool demo day in May and I'm going down to have a play with the two versions of the domino. I had to do a load of mortise & tenons recently and I had to do mortises with the router and tenons on the table saw, then round off the tenons etc - what a lot of flaffing around  

Mind you will need to save a good few pennies if I want to buy one.


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## roman (7 Feb 2013)

I'm a bit puzzled by the L shaped scribing pieces described earlier. Presumably the wardrobe box is placed on a levelled plinth and centred in the alcove in the alcove. I can see how a scribing piece is held on one side while the line is drawn, and then the waste cut away. 

At this stage is the position of the wardrobe marked, the scribed piece removed, and the process repeated on the other side with the unit moved a little to make way for the second, as yet uncut L shape? It seems method open to errors as I understand it but I can't see how else it is done. 

Can anyone describe the process of offering up and marking the pieces to be scribed? 

cheers

roman


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## petermillard (8 Feb 2013)

This may help:-






The carcass remains fixed in place. With the base of the infill temporarily secured inside the carcass, a line can be scribed to the ceiling or wall using a couple of pieces of scrap equal to the thickness of the carcass + infill together, then the infill cut to this line. This scribed infill is now fixed to the outside of the carcass in the usual way.

If you're scribing the side of a carcass to a wall, you have to take note of any hinge plates or shelves, and notch the base of the infill to accommodate them.

HTH Pete.


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## Charlie Woody (8 Feb 2013)

I have just worked out the cost of materials, based on the design below, and was surprised how much it came to! This design uses 6 sheets of 19mm & 4 sheets of 6mm veneered MDF and 6 cu ft (sawn allowing for wastage).

Is there another way of achieving the same storage space but reducing the amount of materials used please?


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## mailee (8 Feb 2013)

Hi Charlie. I have to say that it does take a lot of materials for a build like this, (hence the high cost to the customer for the build) but after looking at your plan I see you have doubled up the upright panels on two of the units. These can use a single panel between them if you use a set of hinges designed to be hung side by side, (half overlay I think they are called) it would mean constructing the units on site but that would be easier anyway due to transporting them. When I build this sort of unit I also use biscuits for assembly and screws in from the top and bottom so they won't show when assembled. I build the carcasses laid down on the floor which is covered and then stand them up and manoeuvre them onto the base frame and into place. once they are in place then I can fit scribe panels to the sides and cornice to the top. HTH. :wink:


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## roman (8 Feb 2013)

Hi Pete,
That’s great, many thanks. I’d have scratched my head all week and still not thought of it. I can see that with the widest gap between the wall and 6mm section of infill needs to be less than the thickness of the carcass material.

I’ve only made a seven or eight shelving alcove units, none with doors yet, but I think the L shapes might still be useful if done with great care so as not to show the join with the carcass. In any case the idea of hooking the infill around the carcass to draw the scribe line as my method of using pins or double sided tape can lead to inaccuracies, esp when using mdf which is prone to bending.

I’d appreciate any comments on my methods as I need to quicken my work to make it more economical.

Firstly, I have no workshop, only site tools. On top of the basics I use mafell track saws and reasonable dust extraction. Cuts are made on saw horses/workmate with sacrificial material underneath. 
I’ve been using 25mm mr mdf most of the time with 12mm backs, and timber lipping. I think I over engineer the plinths which is easy to remedy. I rout housings for the shelves which is messy but gives greater strength when shifting the units around. I screw through the carcass into the ends of the shelves. The backs are glued and pinned as are the lippings (I tried glued biscuits alone but found that the lippings didn’t line up that well). My scribes take too long with multiple journeys to my bench for trimming. I understand some allow an the scribed piece to overhang the insides of the carcass whereas until now I’ve tried to get it flush. On occasions I have fitted a piece of material to cover the plinth and scribed to the skirtings to either side. This worked well but takes a lot ofwork and there must be a better way!

Finally, filling sanding and painting is very familiar ground to me but I’m just beginning to think about a sprayed finish. Having never tried it before, are there any here who use a sprayer in customers houses? 

thanks for your thoughts,

roman


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## No skills (8 Feb 2013)

I know you say you have no workshop but are you making the stuff at home or at the customers houses?

I cant imagine anybody spraying at a customers house (apart from decorators in an empty place), will be interested to see if anybody does. This is an interesting thread.


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## roman (8 Feb 2013)

No skills":3lxvirph said:


> I know you say you have no workshop but are you making the stuff at home or at the customers houses?
> 
> I cant imagine anybody spraying at a customers house (apart from decorators in an empty place), will be interested to see if anybody does. This is an interesting thread.



Occasionally I prepare things at home but this is seldom possible, but otherwise its done in customers houses. Its usually accompanied by redcoration of the room, but not always. I'm like to find an accurate and dependable timber yard in East and North London to cut material, to width at leas,t in order totake some of the strain and make the work more manageable.


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## mailee (8 Feb 2013)

I do think you are over engineering the robes Charlie. I use 18mm boards for the carcasses and 6mm for the back panels which are rebated and glued/pinned in. I do build them in my workshop along with spraying them there and then assemble the units at the customers home using screws and biscuits and glue. For scribing the sides in I use a compass and then cut them with the jig saw set at an angle. I wouldn't even contemplate spraying them at the customers home due to the over spray/fumes. For the shelves I use biscuits and screws and if it is on a panel that will show screws I use the knock down fittings. I also fit a thin 6mm panel over the base frame scribed in to the skirting at each side which is glued on with Gripfill. These of course are my methods and ones that work for me others may be able to give you better methods to use for your circumstances. HTH. :wink: Oh and I will just add that those sloping ceilings are a right pain in the ar*e! :lol:


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## petermillard (9 Feb 2013)

Charlie Woody":2soby040 said:


> I have just worked out the cost of materials, based on the design below, and was surprised how much it came to! This design uses 6 sheets of 19mm & 4 sheets of 6mm veneered MDF and 6 cu ft (sawn allowing for wastage).
> 
> Is there another way of achieving the same storage space but reducing the amount of materials used please?


Sorry, late on the replies. If it were me, I'd be inclined to make the left and right carcasses doubles, rather than two singles, if the internal layout isn't compromised by doing this. Probably the same with the top boxes as well. But as Mailee says in response above, this kind of thing isn't cheap, even in plain MDF.

Pete


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## petermillard (9 Feb 2013)

roman":3eoqhrqq said:


> Hi Pete,
> That’s great, many thanks. I’d have scratched my head all week and still not thought of it. I can see that with the widest gap between the wall and 6mm section of infill needs to be less than the thickness of the carcass material.


Just to be clear, assuming that the base of the 'L' shape infill is the same as the carcass thickness, then the infill needs to be not less than 2X the carcass thickness. And again, a big thank you to Chippy1970 for posting this technique in his original thread, and JasonB, who's idea it was originally, I think.



> I’ve only made a seven or eight shelving alcove units, none with doors yet, but I think the L shapes might still be useful if done with great care so as not to show the join with the carcass. In any case the idea of hooking the infill around the carcass to draw the scribe line as my method of using pins or double sided tape can lead to inaccuracies, esp when using mdf which is prone to bending.


The method described above is by far the easiest, simplest & most accurate method for scribing infills I've ever used - how do you scribe your infills now, just out of interest?



> I’d appreciate any comments on my methods as I need to quicken my work to make it more economical...


As Mailee says, I think you're over-engineering everything, personally - 25mm carcass with a 12mm back must weigh a ton! Ditto with housings for shelves - I use Dominos for alignment, and carcass screws for strength; judicious use of end-panels can hide fixings if there's no alternative. An electric stapler is good for fixing the backs to the carcasses btw - less chance of a staple pulling through than a pin.

I'd encourage you to try and find a small workspace, even if it's just for pre-assembly. Ditto for a decent local timber yard that will do accurate board-cutting - I've found this to make a huge difference to my workflow, as described in the thread I linked to earlier. I'd suggest that these things will be of far, far more use to you than any paint sprayer - FWIW I have a small Earlex HVLP sprayer, and there's no way I'd use this in a customer's house!



> On occasions I have fitted a piece of material to cover the plinth and scribed to the skirtings to either side. This worked well but takes a lot ofwork and there must be a better way!


Cut the skirting flush with e.g. a Multimaster and run the cover material behind the skirt - no scribing required 

HTH, Pete


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## roman (9 Feb 2013)

Hi Pete,

At present I cut a thin strip of infill (not 25mm!) of sufficient width so that there will be enough material to cut into along its length. I place it over the face edge of the carcass, and using my small combi square I make sure it overhangs the carcass uniformly. To secure it while striking the scribe line I pin it to the carcass or use double sided tape, a surprisingly frustrating and error prone method, hence my delight at your L shaped piece which automatically ensures uniformity along the entire length. On some occasions I have attached a strip to the outside of the carcass, set back by the thickness of the infill, in order to help secure it in position. I cut the piece with a jigsaw and tidy up with a block plane.

You are right about it weighing a ton! I use housings for strength and positive location at the assembly and moving stage, I guess if I used thinner gear this would be less necessary. I suppose I’ve created the need for housings by using the 25mm and 12 mm.

I’ve spent three years wondering about a domino. I’ve used one before and they are wonderful. At some point there will be a good offer and I’ll crack, until then I’ll wait in hope of a cheap lidl copy! BTW I assume you use a jig with the domino whereby you fit a piece of material with dominos sticking out into your domino mortices to provide registration at a set distance for the next ones? I’ve considered this for biscuits but have yet to do it.

The electric stapler sounds good if it works well, I always assumed they were a bit puny but I’d try one if you think it’s worth it.

As far as a workspace is concerned I don’t think I could justify it yet. Work is too fitful and I’m trying to avoid ongoing costs that syphon money away. If the workload ever demanded it, that would be my dream.

I own a multimaster but my clients so far have been reluctant to allow me to chop away quite ornate original skirtings, maybe they don’t view my work with a view to permanence!

As far as spraying is concerned I’d love to give it a go in the right circumstances. I’ve painted a lot in my time and consider myself to be quite good, but increasingly I am encountering furniture, doors and even skirtings that must have been sprayed and the finish is fantastic, I can’t get anywhere near it with brushes and rollers. I can see that the time saved in the painting is probably lost in extensive masking and cleaning so there is a trade off. I take your point that a tidy living room might not be the place to start.

Just a thougt on materials. As I mentioned earler I use timber lippings and MDF, however on one job acustomer had two sheets of old blockboard that had been painted and asked if I could reuse them. I agreed and found there was enough for all the shelves. The obvious drawback is the sarface finish which is just like plywood and benefits from grain filling prior to painting. However, for heavy loads it’s a fantastic material. Whereas the addition of a lip to the front of a shelf provides rigidity in the form of a beam, blockboard is beams all the way and seems much lighter than MDF. Is there a reason it’s not used more?

My built ins so far have been blocky things unadorned by mouldings etc but I’ve ripped out a few recently that had fluted and reeded embellishments attached that were made of a sort of brittle acrylic and were paintd. Is this common? I’ve yet to find a good source of this kind of thing and maybe it should be the next step along with cornicing.

regards

Roman


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## petermillard (10 Feb 2013)

Nothing wrong with housing joints, I just think they're a bit OTT in a wardrobe that'll only ever hold e.g. folded clothes. I don't use any kind of spacimg jig with my Domino, just use pencil marks referenced off the back edge of the carcass. I have the original domino with pins (not the later 'paddles') and in theory, you can use the pins to space out a run of dominos - in practise though, they're much too close together done this way, so I stick with the low-tech method.

I'd agree that electric staplers are a bit puny, but all it's doing is holding the back on until the adhesive sets, so I haven't found it to be a big deal, personally. They're cheap enough to give it a try, anyway - mine's just a basic £30-ish Rapesco nailer/stapler, though I wouldn't recommend it as a pin-gun, just a stapler!

It's a fair point about not chopping into original skirtings and moulding - your only option here is to scribe an infill. As I mentioned further up the thread, I use a basic 'profiler' that I bought from a tile shop ages ago, then coping saw, jigsaw, whatever. Actually, I've found I can get pretty close in thin material with a couple of chisels and some coarse abrasive - fast too.

Spray painting gives a fantastic finish, for sure, but you need quite a lot of space to do it properly, something I don't have. I get good results using a foam roller, then blending the paint out with a soft brush. I also try and emphasise the 'hand made, hand painted' appeal of the stuff I make 

I've only come across acrylic mouldings for skirtings and coving - Decorating Direct do quite a wide range - gives a nice finish, but nasty stuff to cut and work with. Haven't seen blockboard for donkeys years - to be fair, I haven't looked, either - but I'm pretty sure the internal 'blocks' or 'beams' were just staves i.e. not continuous throughout the length of the board. As always though, happy to be shown how wrong I am 

Cheers, Pete


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## No skills (10 Feb 2013)

Spraying isnt just an issue of masking up the room and clean up after, you have to consider the H&S side of things as well - fumes etc. I do some large scale spraying quite often and the mess and potential hazzards can be a right pain.

Is there no way you can get a single garage or something to work in? I understand that London must be a very expensive place to let anything, do you have any trade friends that you can sometimes borrow some space from?


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## roman (10 Feb 2013)

Good point about blockboard , although the gear I used seemed to be made of quite long pieces (I only used if for shelves) even with staves the joints would be staggered and it was much stiffer than MDF.

On the domino spacings I dont think I was very clear, I had in mind the spacing of mortices to determine the position of shelves in a carcass. ie drill mortices for the first, place piece of material, say 25cm long with three dominos at one end and some scrap attached at the other end at 90 degrees to reference the machine for the next mortices.

On spraying, its not the be all and end all that I do it, I'd just like to try out the process. I only had in mind HVLP systems for use with water based paints which minimize the hazards. I get the point about not going into living rooms, all guns blazing, its obviously better suited to empty spaces, however I know its used more and more in this country and has been commonplace in the states for years now.

Workspaces are cheap compared to rents but still cost loads. looking ahead I have a few contacts who might be able to provide something in time if their plans fall into place, but I'm not holding my breath.

Pete, I use the trick of making a virtue of brushwork too. I even believed it myself for a long time. But there came a point when I looked at my lovingly prepared surfaces, painted with purdys, paint conditioner mixed in with farrow and ball sludge, and knew I was nowhere near what can be done.

regards

Roman


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## chippy1970 (10 Feb 2013)

The main reason for using the L shaped infills for me was so I could get them flush with the inset doors and still use ordinary concealed lay on hinges. If you have 22mm thick doors and you normally have a couple of mm between them and the carcass edge. So the infills need to be 24mm thick but if you use the L method they are fully adjustable for any thickness door.


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## Charlie Woody (11 Feb 2013)

chippy1970":235xi1lq said:


> The main reason for using the L shaped infills for me was so I could get them flush with the inset doors and still use ordinary concealed lay on hinges. If you have 22mm thick doors and you normally have a couple of mm between them and the carcass edge. So the infills need to be 24mm thick but if you use the L method they are fully adjustable for any thickness door.



So when you fit the infill it is flush with the door not the carcass ..... I thought it would be the other way around when I was reading this thread  

Do most people use 22mm MDF (or MR MDF) for the doors as I am finding it difficult to find a supplier who has anything other than 18mm MR MDF? Things are different when you live in a rural area :!:


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## No skills (11 Feb 2013)

Charlie Woody
So when you fit the infill it is flush with the door not the carcass ..... I thought it would be the other way around when I was reading this thread :oops:
:!:[/quote said:


> I would imagine this is just down to how you want it to look, if you have lay on doors (like a standard kitchen cab) and you want the doors to look layon then you can set the infill flush with the cabinet, if you want the lot flush then bring them forward flush with the doors face.


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## petermillard (11 Feb 2013)

@ Charlie As No Skills says, it's down to how you want it to look - and obviously, if the wardrobes are in an alcove, then unless the alcoves are unusually deep (or the wardrobes unusually shallow, lol) then the infill will always be set back from the door, at least on one side. If the wardrobes are the full width of a room, then you have the option make them flush with the doors or the carcass. Re. 22mm for doors - yes, you can use 18mm, but over a certain height they're more prone to bowing, which is less of an issue with 22mm.

@ Roman re Domino jig; sorry, I misunderstood - no I don't have a jig for spaces between the shelves. The height varies with every job, so I simply measure and mark the centres, then cut the left and right sides together on an MFT and referenced against the back of the guide - the Domino has marks on the body for you to align the doms dead centre. Alternatively, I'll just use an off-cut of MDF cut to the correct size, though tbh most shelves I've built recently have been adjustable - either rows of holes, or inset bookcase strips.

Cheers, Pete


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## Charlie Woody (15 Feb 2013)

Guys when sizing overlay doors I guess that you need to make them slightly smaller than the carcase; question is how much smaller? I will be using Blum 71B355 hinges.

I did some inset doors using Blum hinges last year and I phoned Blum who recommended 2mm clearance on each side, top & bottom. The door edges were rounded over and the gaps look huge and to say the least I was not impressed!!


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## RogerBoyle (15 Feb 2013)

If I make overlay doors for say a Kitchen unit 600 wide and 720 deep I would make the doors 596 wide and 718 deep
Some will make the doors 598 by 716 etc etc 
What you do for one door you need to do for all otherwise it will not look right 

Roger


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## petermillard (16 Feb 2013)

Same here - a couple of mil all round is pretty standard, I think.


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## Charlie Woody (17 Feb 2013)

petermillard":372elcmn said:


> Same here - a couple of mil all round is pretty standard, I think.



Thanks guys ..... that mostly answers my concerns.

I can see how this works ok for overlay doors (which is what I will be using on the current project) as the carcass edges will prevent you seeing through into the wardrobe, but if you do the same with inset doors then you can see into the wardrobes. 

So do people use the same 2mm on each side plus 1mm top & bottom when using inset doors or only on overlay doors?


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## RogerBoyle (17 Feb 2013)

When I shoot inset doors I make them the same size as the opening. I then run them them through the Planner taking 1mm off two of the edges ,( top and one side or bottom and one side ) Occasionally you will get a door that will also need an additional little tickle with a plane I just give it a single pass with my block plane.
This way the door is made for the specific opening rather than having uneven gaps everywhere. 

Roger


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## Charlie Woody (31 Mar 2013)

Well guys I have finally finished these wardrobes and would like to thank each and everyone of you for all the help and assistance that you have given me with this project.

The carcases are 18mm MR MDF, rails & stiles 22 mm MR MDF with 6mm MR MDF panels.

I took a photo of the room before I started on it and one of the installed wardrobes awaiting painting - handles will be fitted once painted. No photo of the inside as its just a hanging rail and shelves.


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## petermillard (31 Mar 2013)

Very tidy Charlie, well done. How did you arrange the right-hand pair of doors in the end - with a doubled-up divider in the carcass, or as a bi-fold?


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## Charlie Woody (31 Mar 2013)

petermillard":2m1lzh7y said:


> Very tidy Charlie, well done. How did you arrange the right-hand pair of doors in the end - with a doubled-up divider in the carcass, or as a bi-fold?



Many thanks Peter. I used a double-up divider as I thought if would be easier to do. Just set into shallow housing in bottom and top.


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## joiner_sim (1 Apr 2013)

Looks great! Have you got anymore pictures of WIP or the finished interior?

And just out of curiousity did you use my "door straightening method"? :wink: If so, did it work out?


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## Charlie Woody (1 Apr 2013)

joiner_sim":z5adnyt5 said:


> Looks great! Have you got anymore pictures of WIP or the finished interior?
> 
> And just out of curiousity did you use my "door straightening method"? :wink: If so, did it work out?



Thanks. Sorry I forgot to take WIP's and the interior (only hanging rails and shelves) I'll try and remember to do so when they are painted.

Luckily the doors straightened out after weighing down. But thanks for the suggestion.


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## SAMMYB (25 Mar 2016)

Hi guys,

I was hoping someone could help me.

Me and my girlfriend have just moved to a new place in london and the mrs is already looking at built in wardrobes and wants them like yesterday. Only problem is, the furniture makers she likes (Wyndham Design Limited) for the built in wardrobes are a wee bit expensive for me. 

This is the sort of style we are after



Does any body have any tutorial and advise how to get that standard and what would they are using ?

Please help furniture makers!!


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## RobinBHM (25 Mar 2016)

I cant see your link to the style you like, but all of that companies work seems contemporary. That requires specialist materials, specialist manufacture and finishing. If you could compromise on design or style you may be able to get a local carpenter to make something you like at a cost more in line with your budget.


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## dzj (26 Mar 2016)

"I gave up using sketch up a few years back - I found I was spending longer doing the drawings than I was making the stuff. I only use/supply 2-D drawings now; haven't noticed a dramatic drop-off in customers..."

Yeah, same here. When this computer thing started, I remember using CutList Plus, ArchiCAD...
Not any more. If they want these kind of drawings, then they should pay a designer or architect 
and not expect to get them for free from me.
2D drawings, pencil on paper and that's it.


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## Wizard9999 (26 Mar 2016)

SAMMYB":2ar7ed56 said:


> Does any body have any tutorial and advise how to get that standard and what would they are using ?


Have you actually read this thread? :roll: 

Terry.


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## RobinBHM (26 Mar 2016)

dzj":2ep3t3wr said:


> "I gave up using sketch up a few years back - I found I was spending longer doing the drawings than I was making the stuff. I only use/supply 2-D drawings now; haven't noticed a dramatic drop-off in customers..."
> 
> Yeah, same here. When this computer thing started, I remember using CutList Plus, ArchiCAD...
> Not any more. If they want these kind of drawings, then they should pay a designer or architect
> ...



I dont see pencil drawings as inferior, for bespoke cabinetry, hand drawn sketches / elevations can show a more personal touch. It looks more professional when sketches are done one a printed title block, but these days A3 printers are cheap so thats easy to do.

Ive always found a pencil and paper to be the most creative medium, theres no cad interface getting in the way.


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