# Bench Grinder for under £100



## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

I've never even touched a bench grinder so I'm going to have a lot of questions... I really want to cover all my bases so if I missed anything important, feel free to point out.
Since I'm going to use it for grinding hand tools I thought I would post it here rather than in Buying Advice.

My local retailers carry some "Record Power" models (RSBG8 and 6) and a Creusen model (can't remember which one). Anyone here have/tried them? I'm trying to avoid buying it from abroad due to postage fees.
Pardon me if this sounds stupid, but do I have to have a "tool rest" or whatever jig to grind a chisel/plane blade?

Then about the width of the stone, can I use ANY width of stone as long as it fits within the housing? I.e. can I replace a 40 mm wheel with say a 20 mm wheel?

Lastly, can I grind those old, bevel up, tanged spokeshave blades on a grinder?

And please, feel free to suggest alternatives to a bench grinder, such as belt sanders or low-speed grinders.

Thanks,
Sam


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

"Record Power" is not related to THE Record company that we know is it?


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## RogerP (31 Jul 2014)

J_SAMa":cn5n1tar said:


> "Record Power" is not related to THE Record company that we know is it?


Yes and no. It's a bit complicated .....



> William Ridgway Tools merged first of all with Record Tools in 1974 to form Record Ridgway Tools Ltd. Record were another Sheffield company who were renowned for the quality of their vices and industrial clamps. Following the merger Record Ridgway Tools Ltd was made up of 14 UK Companies with 5 overseas companies. A later merger with a woodwork tools company called Marple (which was part-owned by Record and Ridgeway respectively before their original merger) led to the company becoming known as Record Marples Tools. Record Marples was taken over by the Swedish hardware manafacturer AB Bahco in 1982. Despite a management buyout leading to the company reverting to British ownership in 1985 the company struggled financially and following administration *was acquired by U.S. based Irwin Tools in 1998 who have since moved production to China in recent years.*




I know the name Record _Power_ dates back over 20 years as I have a lathe in that name bought in 1991. But it is not in the castings which only has "Record" - the "Power" bit is only on a stick on label. Not sure where that fits in with the above.


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## carpenteire2009 (31 Jul 2014)

I doubt you'll be able to pick up a new Creusen grinder for €100, but I could be wrong. In that price bracket you will find that most grinders will be of similar spec and build quality, probably only 200- 250 watt, all produced in China with fairly basic grinding wheels and tool rests. I have 2 grinders, one a second hand Aldi/ Lidl machine fitted with standard carborundum wheels which I use for general rough grinding of metal but not for edge sharpening. The "tool" rests are basic but more than good enough for the tasks I require.

I have a better Scantool grinder (still China-made) which came with cheap wheels; I replaced with cooler cutting white wheels and I also fitted an aftermarket tool rest by Axminster. These improve the performance and functionality no end, allowing me to use this grinder for some edge sharpening, but still taking care to avoid over-heating of steel. When replacing wheels on these cheaper grinders (which have pressed steel collars as opposed to machined steel on top-end models) you will need to balance the wheels and true up the cutting face to ensure smooth operation. Invest in some method of trueing up the wheel, I just use a cheap "devil" stick of carborundum, works fine for cleaning up the wheel too. I use pieces of card shimstock under the wheel collars to balance the wheels when setting up, it takes trial and error to get this done right but once done you will have better results from the grinder.

I have no experience with slow speed grinders, but I did manage to pick up a second hand Tormek (the hobby version) some years ago and would drag that out for some tasks.

In a nutshell- all low end/ budget grinders are the same but spend some money on decent cooler cutting wheels and an aftermarket tool rest or two. You might get lucky and pick up a decent grinder for cheap secondhand and use the money saved to upgrade your wheels, rests etc.


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## Spindle (31 Jul 2014)

Hi

I use a Record Power RSBG8 to profile my tools prior to going to a Tormek for final sharpening, I've owned it for several years and not had a problem with it. I went for the 8" grinder as the wheel diameter is closer to that of the Tormek.

I've also got the RSBG6 which I've only had for about six months but again its been fine - if you intend to only use a grinder to sharpen your tools then I'd go for the saving the RSBG6 offers.

In both cases I prefer the wider white wheels, which incidentally cannot be swapped from one side to the other due to mandrel length on the RSBG8, (not sure about the 6" but I could check if needed).

Regards Mick


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## AndyT (31 Jul 2014)

Re tanged spokeshave irons: I don't think you will get anywhere trying to use a bench grinder on these. Because there is a protective metal case around the stone, you cannot work close enough to the projecting tangs. You would only be grinding a few cm in the middle.

This could be different if you find an old hand cranked grinder secondhand. They can have a 'bare' wheel as the risk of fracture is so much less.

That said, I can't imagine why you would need a wheel for that job. You just need a narrow oilstone or slipstone. If you have a nick in the edge, use a coarse stone and a little more time.


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## Spindle (31 Jul 2014)

Hi

Both Record Power grinders have the wheel guards cut back sufficiently to allow a spoke shave blade to be ground, but as Andy says, its going to be easier and more controllable to use a stone.

Regards Mick


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jul 2014)

Slightly off tack, but the balancing of wheels is important. I have a cheap one with a wet wheel that was unusable till balanced and the devil just "rode" the wheel until I rigged up something on the bench that I could clamp the devil stone to. I clamped the devil to just contact the wheel and left it a couple of minutes till the noise stopped, then repeated the process till the wheel was actually round. It works a dream now.
The effect on a fast wheel isn't so noticeable but it's still there - it's better to take your time and touch the wheel firmly but lightly.


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## Fromey (31 Jul 2014)

I have a chepo Axminster grinder also with a devil wheel (you get what you pay for) and so need to true it up. Is there a site with more detailed instructions, perhaps a Youtibe video, that anyone knows of?


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## AndyT (31 Jul 2014)

Fromey":2aepc535 said:


> I have a chepo Axminster grinder also with a devil wheel (you get what you pay for) and so need to true it up. Is there a site with more detailed instructions, perhaps a Youtibe video, that anyone knows of?



I must get round to doing mine!

MrPete222 aka Tubalcain is a retired school instructor from Illinois who certainly seems to know his stuff around metalwork. This is his take on stone dressing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RagmMb731Sk


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

AndyT":wo0ql5am said:


> That said, I can't imagine why you would need a wheel for that job. You just need a narrow oilstone or slipstone. If you have a nick in the edge, use a coarse stone and a little more time.


Laziness is human nature... No really, I'm through with grinding by hand which is why I am investing in a bench grinder.
I've got a spokeshave blade with a 1 mm by 1.5 mm nick in it... Imagine that!
Sam


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

Spindle":9dmpn5x9 said:


> Hi
> 
> I use a Record Power RSBG8 to profile my tools prior to going to a Tormek for final sharpening, I've owned it for several years and not had a problem with it. I went for the 8" grinder as the wheel diameter is closer to that of the Tormek.
> 
> ...



"Not had a problem with it" as in the wheel is not tricky to install like the cheaper ones described by others? It's hard to imagine something in this price range being perfect.

The RSBG6 only me 20 euros so... :roll: The theory is that a smaller diameter gives a "weaker" edge. How much difference does it make in practice?

I plan on going to 250-grit diamond stone and then 1200-grit right off of the grinder. What kind of wheels will I need?

Do you use the RSBG's with aftermarket tool rests? If yes which one? The original "rest" (which isn't much more than a steel bracket, judging by the pictures) looks flimsy

Sam


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

carpenteire2009":2hrjhdx1 said:


> I doubt you'll be able to pick up a new Creusen grinder for €100, but I could be wrong. In that price bracket you will find that most grinders will be of similar spec and build quality, probably only 200- 250 watt, all produced in China with fairly basic grinding wheels and tool rests. I have 2 grinders, one a second hand Aldi/ Lidl machine fitted with standard carborundum wheels which I use for general rough grinding of metal but not for edge sharpening. The "tool" rests are basic but more than good enough for the tasks I require.
> 
> I have a better Scantool grinder (still China-made) which came with cheap wheels; I replaced with cooler cutting white wheels and I also fitted an aftermarket tool rest by Axminster. These improve the performance and functionality no end, allowing me to use this grinder for some edge sharpening, but still taking care to avoid over-heating of steel. When replacing wheels on these cheaper grinders (which have pressed steel collars as opposed to machined steel on top-end models) you will need to balance the wheels and true up the cutting face to ensure smooth operation. Invest in some method of trueing up the wheel, I just use a cheap "devil" stick of carborundum, works fine for cleaning up the wheel too. I use pieces of card shimstock under the wheel collars to balance the wheels when setting up, it takes trial and error to get this done right but once done you will have better results from the grinder.
> 
> ...



The Creusen model I had in mind was the DS 4150T. Can't find any UK retailers selling it ATM.
http://www.beeldhouwwinkel.nl/creusen-ds-4150t.html.
Supposedly Creusen is a reliable, high-end brand so I too was surprised to find this at such a low price. I plan on checking it out in the flesh so anything I should look out for (besides machined steel collars)? 
I am still not quite sure what you mean by "balancing" the wheel...

About the tool rest, would you say the one pictured with the Creusen above is satisfactory?

Then about truing the stones, it seems that diamond sticks get good reviews. Have you tried one?


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## Fromey (31 Jul 2014)

Thanks Andy for that link. It reassures me that I'm doing it right. However, for my white wheel I'm seeing wobble in the lateral i.e., the wheel axis that is perpendicular to the axle shows wobble. I've looked at the axle and it looks fine, so I suspect it is the side "walls" of the stone that are not well formed. I'm assuming there is no way to true those up so am contemplating ditching the stone and buying a new one (though they cost just as much as the whole grinder cost me!)


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## mikefab (31 Jul 2014)

I have a Creusen grinder and use the Axminster aftermarket tool rest. The surface is quite a bit bigger (wider and deeper) than the supplied creusen one and it locks nice and securely. Havjng said that, I ordered both at the same time so never tried the built in one. I didn't regret my choice when I saw the supplied rests but you'd have nothing to lose by trying them out. 

For what it's worth I go straight from the 100G white wheel to a 1000G stone for a secondary bevel. I use a diamond trueing tool (about £10 from Axi I think) to dress the wheel, and put a slight camber across it so that it only cuts in the centre, reducing the potential for overheating. 

Hope this helps. 

Mike


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## Spindle (31 Jul 2014)

Hi J_SAMa

I've not had any sort of problems with the RSBG8, the wheels run true and balanced, there is some minor vibration during run up and down but once at speed all is fine.
Record use turned wheel flanges on both of their grinders and not pressed steel ones.
Grinding with a view to 'fine' sharpening is not really my forte - I use the supplied white wheel which I believe is 80 grit which produces an edge perfectly acceptable for woodturning.
As far as a smaller wheel giving a weaker edge - I think that logic is flawed, and the fact that 6" grinders are far more prevalent than larger ones seems to support this.
All grinders will benefit from after market / home made tool rests, the type will depend on what items you intend to grind.

Regards Mick


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

Spindle":3g4hqz9g said:


> Hi J_SAMa
> 
> I've not had any sort of problems with the RSBG8, the wheels run true and balanced, there is some minor vibration during run up and down but once at speed all is fine.
> Record use turned wheel flanges on both of their grinders and not pressed steel ones.
> ...


RSBG6 it is I guess. Easier to replace wheels in case I need to (no one here sells 8" wheels for some reason)...
The thing is, the tool rests I know of are all quite expensive. I might as well go for a Creusen 7000 for that price.
Sam


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## Spindle (31 Jul 2014)

J_SAMa":1gndtgpv said:


> The thing is, the tool rests I know of are all quite expensive. I might as well go for a Creusen 7000 for that price.



Hi

Whilst the rests on a Cruesen may be more substantial I doubt that they will cater for all of your requirements

What are you thinking of grinding? - Home made rests are easy to produce and will give you good results for very little outlay.

Regards Mick


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## J_SAMa (31 Jul 2014)

The usual chisels and plane irons, and some gouges if I manage to damage them badly. Maybe a few drill bits on occasion. I don't turn at all and don't plan on starting any time soon.
I noticed the RSBG6 has a 1/2" bore, and other models are almost all 15 mm. Would I have problems replacing the wheel?
Sam


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## carpenteire2009 (31 Jul 2014)

J_SAMa":29o0hay2 said:


> I noticed the RSBG6 has a 1/2" bore, and other models are almost all 15 mm. Would I have problems replacing the wheel?
> Sam



No problem with 1/2" bore, both my grinders are the same while replacement stones were 15mm- Axminster stock reducing bushes in a number of configurations to suit all variations. After fitting replacement wheels I had to balance them and true the perimeter. I found some info on the web to help me do this- basically shims of paper or card are used under the collars to reduce runout. Once that's done I used the "devil" stick to true up the outer edge. Not difficult but it takes time and patience, so once fitted I wouldn't be changing wheels until they're worn out. This is partly the reason I have two grinders- one for rough work and one for fine grinding as it's just not practicable to be switching wheels. I'd stick with a 6" wheeled grinder over 8"- there is a fair difference in price between the two and it will be easier to find more choice of abrasive types etc in 6" wheel I think.


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## J_SAMa (1 Aug 2014)

Spindle":2ech6sdd said:


> J_SAMa":2ech6sdd said:
> 
> 
> > The thing is, the tool rests I know of are all quite expensive. I might as well go for a Creusen 7000 for that price.
> ...


Could you maybe post a link to a tutorial on making a tool rest, especially one that requires a minimal set of metalworking tools (I don't even have a drill press)...


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## deema (1 Aug 2014)

I bought a Crusen on the Bay for a not much more than the £100 price suggested. It was a returned unit sold by Axminister. It's a good place to look they regularly pop up, and I don't think you would need to wait too long...hint hint.


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## Spindle (1 Aug 2014)

Hi

Here's one:

http://lumberjocks.com/projects/44468

Plenty more available on line

Regards Mick


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2014)

I recommend the Veritas jig...to be honest...it was expensive but it's so quick and easy it pays for itself in no time:







And on the white Creusen wheel...gives a good bevel...






And the Creusen motor and bearings are second to none!

Jim


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Aug 2014)

Shhh! You said the "j" word...


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## Vann (1 Aug 2014)

phil.p":7hze9fv6 said:


> Shhh! You said the "j" word...


And the "b" word....



jimi43":7hze9fv6 said:


> And on the white Creusen wheel...gives a good *bevel.*..


This thread ihas gone downhill since jimi got here (hammer) 

Cheers, Vann.


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## Vann (1 Aug 2014)

jimi43":2cpd67ma said:


> I recommend the Veritas jig...to be honest...it was expensive but it's so quick and easy it pays for itself in no time:


I use a Veritas err... _thingy_ too. They're quite good. But if you're struggling to justify the expenditure on the grinder, the Veritas err... _thingy_ is probably a bridge too far. I wonder if I wouldn't have been just as well off with a wooden stand with a groove to take the Veritas clamp. I think they're available separately.

Incidently, I now use a hand cranked grinder for sharpening. I have an 8" high speed grinder as well, for when I want to stuff the temper in a really good chisel  :wink: 

Cheers, Vann.


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2014)

Vann":2t0d8q0f said:


> phil.p":2t0d8q0f said:
> 
> 
> > Shhh! You said the "j" word...
> ...



HA! Youse guys are so FUNNY! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: !

Hey...did I mention I bought the Creusen at a bootfair for £20? 8) 

I reckon it's a while since I mentioned that too! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Hey! I made the darn "j" thing for the pink wheel...what more do you guys want!? :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Aug 2014)

Makes my £40 Creusen seen mighty expensive.


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## J_SAMa (2 Aug 2014)

But the Veritas "thingy's" notch for the wheel isn't big enough for the 40 mm wide, white wheels you all like so much...
I don't plan on using a jig or guide (there's the "g" word). I will try to, if possible, just make/buy a tool rest and then just freehand on it (was that the "f" word (hammer)).
Another aspect to consider is that I may wish to grind some things at around 90 degrees: the sides of some of my mortise chisels need work as I want to make them taper in width along their "height" (so the cross section will be trapezoidal in shape). Does the Veritas rest allow that or is it only suitable for sharpening?
Sam


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## J_SAMa (2 Aug 2014)

jimi43":14vwdedd said:


> And on the white Creusen wheel...gives a good bevel...
> 
> Jim



Is that a narrow wheel then? Or did you have to widen the notch :?


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## jimi43 (2 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":2em9dx84 said:


> jimi43":2em9dx84 said:
> 
> 
> > And on the white Creusen wheel...gives a good bevel...
> ...



Not sure what you mean...it's set up like this:






The black plate holds the chisel square...the pins ate moveable for wide or narrow tools....the black part slides left and right to work the bevel.

Jimi


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## J_SAMa (2 Aug 2014)

jimi43":3ms8kxz5 said:


> J_SAMa":3ms8kxz5 said:
> 
> 
> > jimi43":3ms8kxz5 said:
> ...



Right... Well description of the Veritas tool rest says there is a notch that "straddles" wheels up to 1" wide. But in your set up the rest is just back off far enough for the notch not to straddle at all. Should've thought of that #-o


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## Spindle (2 Aug 2014)

Hi

Removing parts of the wheel guards to allow wider wheels to be fitted is not best practice - better to look for a machine designed to accept the size wheels you wish to use.

Regards Mick


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## jimi43 (2 Aug 2014)

Spindle":1rbmkni8 said:


> Hi
> 
> Removing parts of the wheel guards to allow wider wheels to be fitted is not best practice - better to look for a machine designed to accept the size wheels you wish to use.
> 
> Regards Mick



Sound advice my friend...and of course it was remiss of me to post a picture showing such practice on a public forum....






Best I don't post too many pictures of my wood lathe then.... :wink: 

Jimi


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## Harbo (2 Aug 2014)

I use a cheapo Clarke one with a Norton 3X wheel for rapid removal.
I've never had an issue with the standard narrow wheels if the stone is true.
Using a rest you carefully pass the blade across.

Rod


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## G S Haydon (2 Aug 2014)

I bought one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/22148398 ... 108&ff19=0 it does fine.


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## Vann (2 Aug 2014)

G S Haydon":376zin93 said:


> I bought one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/22148398 ... 108&ff19=0 it does fine.


I watched the sales video with that grinder. I may be mistaken, but it seemed to me that the tools were being sharpened at entirely wrong angles (no - this is not the start of a sharpening debate (hammer) ). 

Also, near the end, a guy is 'sharpening' a drill bit while wearing protective gloves. When I did my apprenticeship we were warned never to wear gloves when working on a grinder - if you slip and the stone catches the glove, it'll pull you into the machine. Mind you we had much bigger grinders (~18-24" wheels from memory).

Cheers, Vann.


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## DTR (2 Aug 2014)

Vann":3lu4yskx said:


> Also, near the end, a guy is 'sharpening' a drill bit while wearing protective gloves. When I did my apprenticeship we were warned never to wear gloves when working on a grinder - if you slip and the stone catches the glove, it'll pull you into the machine. Mind you we had much bigger grinders (~18-24" wheels from memory).
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



+1


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## G S Haydon (2 Aug 2014)

I must admit I never watched the video, it's just a cheap grinder for primary bevel work. Will check out the video, sounds like a larf.


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## heimlaga (2 Aug 2014)

For 100 pounds or the equivalent ine euros one could get a top quality bench grinder secondhand and also get new bearings for it. Shifting bearings is not very difficult. I recently paid 50 euros for a small three phase grinder of high quality. It just needed a new cable and a new plug and one new wheel. That makes a total cost not exceeding 120 euros. 

The ideal grinder for you would in my oppinion be a waterstone grinder/ bench grinder combination. Something like the ones manufactured by Geoprodukter in Kiruna under the brand name Kirunaslipen: 
http://www.geoprodukter.se/Engelsk/Kiruna-Slipen.htm
Grinders of this type have a slow running waterstone and a fast running bench grinder stone. Then you get the best of two worlds merged into one machine. 
They turn up secondhand now and then and maybe some have ended up in the Netherlands so you might find one. There were several other barnds of grinders of this type made back in the 60-ies and 70-ies. 
I think I paid something like 30 euros secondhand for a Kiruna grinder of the smallest model. I had to repair the fan on the motor but othwerwise it was all right. 
I also have a bigger floor standing model which was made by Alimak Verken in Skellefteå. It's waterstone is 60 cm in diametre. I paid 600 kronor (about 70 euros) for it secondhand but it needed a total rebuild which costed about 100 euros plus some work. I had to weld up a totally new frame for it and shift all bearings and gaskets and repair a small crack in the gear wheel and repair a leak in the water trough.

I prefere to use a slow running waterstone grinder for sharpening chisels and gouges. Some prefere other sharpening methods. There are any number of different methods but for a 100 pound budget you could probably find any grinder you want if you are prepared to buy secondhand and fix it up a bit.

Good Luck!


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## J_SAMa (2 Aug 2014)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d6oOOmswYZU
27:35 how Mr. Dovetails is purposefully NOT letting the blade touch the surface of the tool "rest"... Is that the "correct" technique?
In all seriousness, If I followed that technique, why would I even use a tool rest over a steel bar?

And then it's the term "friable" wheels which a lot of 'Muricans mention, is that synonymous with with the "white" wheels we've been talking about or does it refer only to a special breed of these white wheels


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## Racers (2 Aug 2014)

Hi heimlaga

I have an old Kiruna-Slipen 275 professional, I had to do a bit of rebuild on mine, the plastic coating on the trough had holed and was coming off, so I peeled it off and painted it and fitted a hose connector and short length of hose so I can fill and empty it, the hose is held up in a wire clip when its full.

I had the original stone split due to rust build up on the shaft (its why I fitted the hose) but Axminister where selling a stone that was nearly the right size, I had to shim the shaft with some tubing but it works fine.

Pete


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## J_SAMa (3 Aug 2014)

Anyone? Please, I really need some advice on that technique...


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## AndyT (3 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":tr29hg3y said:


> Anyone? Please, I really need some advice on that technique...



I've had a quick look at the video you linked to and it seems perfectly clear. He has previously demonstrated grinding a chisel on his slow speed grinder, using a jig. But, he says, if you don't have a jig, you can manage without one. He shows how - hold the blade so one finger goes across it and use that finger to rest against something. (It could be a bar or a basic cheap toolrest; he uses just the front edge of his jig, as that is what he has there. It might have been a better demonstration if he had removed the jig and fitted something simpler.)

So, as others have often said, you can buy and use a jig or you can train yourself to hold the blade steady so you get equally good results.


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## J_SAMa (3 Aug 2014)

AndyT":2sx58a2r said:


> J_SAMa":2sx58a2r said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone? Please, I really need some advice on that technique...
> ...



Actually, I'm concerned about the likelihood of danger if untrained hands attempted that technique. Without the tool resting flat on the tool rest, is it possible for the edge to dig in? Don't want to lose a finger trying that


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## Spindle (3 Aug 2014)

Hi

Personally I wouldn't think of putting an unsupported tool onto a grinding wheel, as you have correctly identified, it is a recipe for disaster in inexperienced hands.

Why are you avoiding buying / making a suitable tool rest?

Regards Mick


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## J_SAMa (3 Aug 2014)

Spindle":jpesr4o2 said:


> Hi
> 
> Personally I wouldn't think of putting an unsupported tool onto a grinding wheel, as you have correctly identified, it is a recipe for disaster in inexperienced hands.
> 
> ...



Sorry if I gave that impression but I'm not... I'm just trying to confirm what the correct technique is insofar as whether the tool should be fully rested on the jig or lifted off is concerned.
Okay actually I AM avoiding buying a tool rest. I've already decided to make one as it looks quite simple.


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## Spindle (3 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":2a10b4hp said:


> Okay actually I AM avoiding buying a tool rest. I've already decided to make one as it looks quite simple.



Good man =D> =D> 

Don't forget to show us the results  

Regards Mick


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## Vann (3 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":1xug4whm said:


> ...Mr. Dovetails is purposefully NOT letting the blade touch the surface of the tool "rest"... Is that the "correct" technique?


That's how I was taught - though there is no such thing as _*the correct*_ technique. But after 30+ years out of the trade, when I got back into woodworking I bought the Veritas set-up in order to eliminate the chance that my technique was wrong - and because I like the greater accuracy. 



J_SAMa":1xug4whm said:



> ...why would I even use a tool rest over a steel bar?


You don't need one - it's quicker without setting up the blade in a holder. But if you're unsure (and your livelihood doesn't depend upon speed of your woodwork) then a decent rest and/or holder can give a more repeatable result. 

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Aug 2014)

Oh no! It's the "J" word coming on again...


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## Vann (3 Aug 2014)

phil.p":1eujnrn5 said:


> Oh no! It's the "J" word coming on again...


  I'm sorry. I nearly didn't post 'cause I knew I was sailing close...

But I never actually used the "J" word - honest guv.  

Cheers, Vann


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## J_SAMa (7 Aug 2014)

:shock: :shock: 

http://youtu.be/XN5QSTaVzRQ 5:20

Didn't think Sellers would be the one to do this...


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## Vann (7 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":36s8qoo6 said:


> Didn't think Sellers would be the one to do this...


Interesting...

Some observations:
-Very much a case of _do as I say, not as I do_ when it comes to the safety goggles etc. He, IMHO, had the cooling water too far away and seemed to be leaning over the grinder to reach it (though that may just have been the camera angle).
-Not a very round curve on the iron.
-Rounded bevel (hah, I got to use the 'B' word (hammer) ).
-It seems a shame to widen the mouth on a perfectly good plane (I have picked up so many with huge mouths - it not as though there's a shortage !)

But overall, it was interesting to watch (now that I've finally got around to turning a woodie into a scrub plane #-o )  

Cheers, Vann.


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## J_SAMa (8 Aug 2014)

Vann":18haox8e said:


> J_SAMa":18haox8e said:
> 
> 
> > Didn't think Sellers would be the one to do this...
> ...



Yebbut that technique looks more than just "interesting" it looks like it's gonna get some newbies like me killed...


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## Vann (8 Aug 2014)

J_SAMa":1ppnd4f6 said:


> Yebbut that technique looks more than just "interesting" it looks like it's gonna get some newbies like me killed...


Nah, you'll just loose a finger or two. Nothing to worry about - there'll still be 8 left.

Personally I don't like using a powered grinder unless my workpiece is supported on the tool rest. If he's skilled enough not to need to do that then fair enough - but I'm not sure he should be encouraging all and sundry to do so.

Cheers, Vann.


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## jimi43 (8 Aug 2014)

Vann":phq0c3ge said:


> J_SAMa":phq0c3ge said:
> 
> 
> > Yebbut that technique looks more than just "interesting" it looks like it's gonna get some newbies like me killed...
> ...



In addition...even though that is a fairly cheap grinder...it has obviously been fettled as it sounds sweet and is balanced.

The finger acts as the stabilizing "rest" during this operation but I cannot see why he couldn't just adjust the tool rest to the correct angle and then grind the same bevel with a sweep resting on the rest itself.

The problem with the basic type of tool rest on these things is that when it's tilted the whole thing has to be moved forward to get it within safe distance again...and this is fiddly.

The Axminster rest eliminates this by using two easy-adjust knobs which makes you want to get it right as it's so easy to do.

I didn't know bluing on the corners would be corrected (re-hardened) by dunking in water though...new one on me.

Jimi


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## Vann (9 Aug 2014)

jimi43":1zv3nwmm said:


> I didn't know bluing on the corners would be corrected (re-hardened) by dunking in water though...new one on me.


If he'd said "It's only blued on the corner so it won't matter" I'd have been more inclined to believe him.

I'm not trying to trash his video (I've enjoyed those few I've watched) - just trying to point out that everything he says isn't gospel.

Cheers, Vann.


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## jimi43 (9 Aug 2014)

Vann":1jxchfsw said:


> jimi43":1jxchfsw said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't know bluing on the corners would be corrected (re-hardened) by dunking in water though...new one on me.
> ...



I know he said it wouldn't matter on a corner and of course it wouldn't matter one iota but he also said it would reharden....never heard of that bit before.

Jimi


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## heimlaga (9 Aug 2014)

jimi43":17ksjte0 said:


> he also said it would reharden....never heard of that bit before.



Fortunately....... because it isn't true. To harden carbon steel you need to heat it to a dull dark red all over and then quench it in water or brine or oil. The coise of quenching medium depends on the type of steel used. Blue heat is simply not hot enough for the process to work. After quenching the temper is drawn, that is the steel in heated to a temperature between light yellow and purple depending on the type of steel and the intended use of the tool.
A woodworking chisel is normally tempered to a yellow or copper colour. This means that if it is overheated to a blue or brown colour when grinding it is softened a good deal though there is some of the hardening left in it. Blue or brown is roundabout the correct temper for leaf springs and hammer heads. You don't want your chisel to be as soft as a leaf spring do you! Such an edge will be too soft.

This is the reason why I use a water cooled slow speed grinder for most of my tools. I don't want to overheat them ruin the hardening.


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