# Dust Extraction Problem!!!



## Michel (15 Nov 2004)

Hello All,

when i bought my Scheppach TS2500 table saw at the start of the year i also bought the Scheppach ha2600 extractor with fine filter. 

The intention was to use the extractor in the new workshop to run my extraction system (including table saw, power tools etc.) consisting of 110mm soil pipe with blast gates.

However i have read a few articles on this site and in magazines/books, which seem to say that my type of extractor is only good for chippings and not good for power tools and long duct runs. From what i can see i should have bought a vacuum extractor similar to the axminster WV1000 or Record DX 5000.

I know from reading past articles on the forum that a few members have also bought the HA2600 and wondered how their system worked etc.

Just hoping i haven't wasted my money :? 

Any info/opinions would be appreciated

Cheers

Michel


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## bg (15 Nov 2004)

I might be giving you some bad new I’m afraid. I bought a Scheppach dust extractor (I’m not at home at the moment and I cant remember the model number) and fine filter a while back and recently tried to link it to a short’ish run of soil pipes with some blast gates. The results were not impressive at all especially where a reduction to a narrow pipe was called for. It now just does duty for my router table where it works well enough. I was at Tools last Friday as saw some proper kit in action and the Scheppach just did not compare. I’m back to the drawing board myself on a decent set up for the workshop. I dont suppose its any comfort to know you are not alone in this though.


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## Chris Knight (15 Nov 2004)

I have had this unit for years and it performs well for me.

It is important to distinguish between a device for taking dust from a hand held power tool like a router or biscuit jointer or sander and a static woodworking machine like a thicknesser or planer. The latter needs something like the HA2600 and the former needs something like a domestic vacuum (souped-up workshop version) One is HVLP the other is LVHP so to speak - and they do not cross-over duties.

I wouldn't use my Scheppach with the router and I wouldn't use my shopvac with my planer or tablesaw.


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## Michel (15 Nov 2004)

Thank you for the replies  

Re. 



> I wouldn't use my Scheppach with the router and I wouldn't use my shopvac with my planer or tablesaw.



I to was at the Tools show but on Thursday and i spoke to them on the axminster stand and they told me that the WV1000 and WV2000 were perfect for a full system and could cope with thicknesser/planer and power tools like router mitre saw etc (as long as only one is used at one time).

Would you not agree with this :?: 

regards

Michel


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## Adam (15 Nov 2004)

Have you looked here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1530

and here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2785

Adam


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## Chris Knight (15 Nov 2004)

Michel,

I have no experience with these particular machines and thus cannot answer your question.

I would observe however that (looking at the picture of the WV1000 unit on the Axminsters site)- it looks like a Record dust extractor that I threw in a skip. The design in my view is perfectly awful, where the suction tries to swallow its own bag which consequently has to be held in place with a sort of steel framework. The bag also has to be supported off the floor whilst changing it, leading to dust everywhere.

Not putting too fine a point on it, I think this design (or at least the Record version which I dumped) is the product of a lazy, mental deficient who should have been ground into a fine powder and fed to his own machine.

By contrast the little WV100 which I have connected to a drum sander works pretty well and is worth the money BUT it is really only suitable for that particular duty in my mind.


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## Alf (15 Nov 2004)

waterhead37":6r1y7is3 said:


> Not putting too fine a point on it, I think this design (or at least the Record version which I dumped) is the product of a lazy, mental deficient who should have been ground into a fine powder and fed to his own machine.


Is now the time to mention I design dust extractors...? 

Nah, just kidding.




I have one, and I agree. The blasted thing actually shreds its own bags at it sucks them up onto the metal cage doo-dah. It claims to do everything, and is so frequently the way, fails at them all. Avoid like the plague. Mine goes just beautifully with the Maxi...





Cheers, Alf


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## UKTony (15 Nov 2004)

i've had a similar problem with my Perform Extractor which is rated at 750W with a 4 inch hose, looking at the axminster catalouge they recommend a 1000w extractor/vac for use with there dust extraction kit for 4 63mm devices. Whilst on the subject i fitted my airfilter at the weekend pain in the butt to get it in on the ceiling but does a great job


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## ProShop (15 Nov 2004)

Boy! am I pleased I read this thread, as I was about to get one.

Phew.......... Thank You  ...Thank You  .......


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## Alf (15 Nov 2004)

Fixit":3sy9a7p5 said:


> Boy! am I pleased I read this thread, as I was about to get one.
> 
> Phew.......... Thank You  ...Thank You  .......


You weren't gonna ask here first?!



Deary, deary me. I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell ya. Wish I'd had this place to guide me clear of the lemons that currently clutter up the workshop.



Of course if I _had_, I'd probably be hopelessly in debt and up to my ears in hand planes by now. Oh wait, I am...





Cheers, Alf

P.S. Did I mention I'm shocked?


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## mrbmcg (15 Nov 2004)

Hi Folks

I'd just like to add that I have the Record DX5000 machine that I think John Elliot is referring.

I agree that the bag design leaves a lot to be desired and I too gleefully ripped through my first bag when I switched it on  

(Nothing a bit of duct tape won't fix though)

Fitting the bag is fiddly too unless you replace the pathetic plastic strap with a metal one which you can fold the bag over the edge of and fit in 10 seconds 

The thing about this type of extractor is that being a high pressure system it *does* work well with a system of pipes whereas your bag type (generally speaking) will lose suction very quickly with the added static pressure a ducted system will bring. I use it with about 8m of 100mm pipe to all the machines I used to use (I only have one now  ). Even with a 50mm take off at my router table it works wonderfully.

I would recommend one to anybody, but......

1) Get a big bit of bubble wrap or a large jiffy envelope and tape it round the metal frame hanging from the unit. It will stop the narrow bit of metal tearing through the bags if you clog the end up.

2) Get a metal clamp strap that you can fold the edges of the bag over

If these two things were addressed I would say the Record is the best non-industrial extractor I've seen.

Bill Pentz has a great website dedicated to dust extraction for woodworking machines, I was so impressed I sent him a donation for the wonderful information contained within.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm


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## ProShop (15 Nov 2004)

> You weren't gonna ask here first?!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I feel well & truly admonished now   . I promise to ask here before I place my plastic in future  


> P.S. Did I mention I'm shocked?


    


> and up to my ears in hand planes by now. Oh wait, I am...


Dare I mention I'm in the market for a small smoothing plane........ :wink:


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## bg (15 Nov 2004)

Thanks mrbmcg for the link, a most interesting site, and asleitch for the link to his cyclone design, much food for thought indeed. A new design of my workshop dust extraction is being considered with more concern than before, and more hope I can get a good solution!


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## DaveL (15 Nov 2004)

Michel,

You might like to look at what I have done here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2352

and 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1405

I hope its useful.


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## Martin (15 Nov 2004)

Michel,

I have the HA2600 with fine filter and it works fine with most of my machines - but I fully concur with the above posts - this type of extractor isn't designed for every tool in the workshop, and I end up using my old shop vac for the smaller tools. I find the HA2600 works very well with the TS, bandsaw, thicknesser and benchtop jointer. It works less well with the router table, but I think that's in part down to how effectively the table itself is designed for dust collection. I use the shop vac for sanders, handheld routers etc.

I have the HA2600 running through about 5 meters of ceiling mounted steel ducting, with a few twists here and there - and about 4 blast gates. One of the blast gates is fitted "in-line" in the ducting, which allows me to isolate the vast majority of the pipe run when using machines that are closer to the extractor. This seems to work well.

I haven't noticed any significant loss of performance when using machines at the end of the pipe run, although I typically am only using one extractor pipe feed at a time - if you get my drift (the only exception being when I connect the TS, which has feeds from the base and crown guard simultaneously).

I too found that the performance dropped significantly if you go to smaller diameter hoses, but following advice from Adam I fitted a 100mm to 58mm reducing adaptor at the point of connection to the machine, and get good results. This fitting is used for the TS crown guard, the jointer and also router table - the adaptor is push fit, so I just switch between them depending on which machine I'm using.

The other thing I noticed at first was that the extractor was losing air around the waste sack ring - but having tightened up the ring a little it seemed to work better.

HTH.

regards,
Martin.

P.S. All of the ducting is 100mm (not 110mm). Not sure if this makes any difference...


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## Midnight (16 Nov 2004)

> Dare I mention I'm in the market for a small smoothing plane........



ruh roh....... _*now*_ you've done it......


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## Michel (16 Nov 2004)

Hello everyone  ,

Thank you for all the opinions and advice they have all been very helpful.

from what i can see i would be better off having two extraction systems my HA2600 for my table saw and p/t with 110mm soil pipe and a Axminster WV1 or 2 Dust Vacuum or similar connected to ducting ( 63mm dust extraction kit) for my power tools and mitre saw etc.

What do you think :?: :?: :?: 

Regards

Michel


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## Adam (16 Nov 2004)

Martin":lno9pgls said:


> but following advice from Adam I fitted a 100mm to 58mm reducing adaptor at the point of connection to the machine, and get good results.



Blimey, some I advised worked? :shock: 

Michel, 

You need to get two concepts into your mind I think, high volume low pressure (HVLP), and low volume high pressure (LVHP). Each type of system is suited to different things.

Moving high volumes at high pressure would work with everything, sadly, you'd need such a large motor to drive it, you'd need to connect directly to a power station!

When using a narrow pipe, it's very difficult to suck large amounts of air through it - as it's a bottleneck, but this is ideally suited to power tools which produce (relatively) limited amounts of dust/chippings, and a compact hose take-off is convenient. Any standard vacuum cleaner operated on these principles. (your "shop-vac"). E.g. low volume high pressure

Anything that produces large amounts of chippings/dust (i.e. table saw/ P/T) needs something that can cope with such a volume, and is normally considered a high volume low pressure - e.g. if you put your hand across the end of the pipe, it's easy to pull your hand away. This is your HA2600.

No matter what any manufacturer says, I don't think you will find any system that really works optimally in both situations - you'll find you need both.

Restricting your HA2600 to a narrow pipe e.g. for your router/hand sander - will result in neglible air-flow - and similarly opening your vacuum to a 100mm pipe from the table saw will also result in neglible airflow.

Using a single system will result in such comprimises, that you won't get the health benefits of sucking all the dust away, or it won't cope with the volume of chips. So yes, you need both. I'd be wary of going for 63mm for your low-volume high pressure system, I'd follow the pipe diameter of whatever you are using as you vacuum, otherwise the static pressure will drop in the areas where the pipe gets very large (i.e. 63mm), and you'll get dust sitting in it. Much better to keep the pipe narrow (i.e. 30mm or 40mm or whatever the vacuum is), and maintain a high airflow rate, and keep that dust moving. (the opposite applies to the HA2600 - you want the pipe as large as possible, with as few narrow restrictions as possible - although I found 110mm acceptable)

With regard to the take-off on the crown guard on the tablesaw, running 100mm pipe all the way to the gaurd, with a final adaptor at the very end, will result in a surprisingly good dust takeoff, for reasons detailed in my posts that I linked in.

Good luck.

Adam


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## Michel (18 Nov 2004)

Hello everyone,

i have done a bit of research into Camvac and their design seems to be almost identical to the record dx5000 and the axminster wv1000 and 2000. When i spoke to the technical department at Camvac they told me that for my requirements i would need a twin motor (2 x 1000 watt) 2.5 inch outlet machine (not 4 inch) either the GV286W, GV336 or GV386. They told me that the 2.5 inch outlet would be fine for all my machines and i would just need to reduce down to 100mm when i get to my table saw etc.

I assume that this setup would be almost identical to the one that Andy King has in his home workshop, which from his posts on the forum seems to work fine.

One thing i can't understand is why the axminster wv2000 is so much more expensive compared to the record DX5000, Which seems to have the same spec. :? 

I'm now thinking of running a 2.5 inch system and using my HA2600 just for my p/t.

Just trying not to make to many mistakes on the new workshop, seen as i have a blank canvas as such.  

Regards

Michel


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## Adam (18 Nov 2004)

Michel":36hc0xmy said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> i have done a bit of research into Camvac and their design seems to be almost identical to the record dx5000 and the axminster wv1000 and 2000. When i spoke to the technical department at Camvac they told me that for my requirements i would need a twin motor (2 x 1000 watt) 2.5 inch outlet machine (not 4 inch) either the GV286W, GV336 or GV386. They told me that the 2.5 inch outlet would be fine for all my machines and i would just need to reduce down to 100mm when i get to my table saw etc.
> 
> ...



Of course, your research is leading you directly away from the the advice on the Bill Pentz website.... e.g.



Bill Pentz Website":36hc0xmy said:


> dust collectors and even air filters lack ample airflow to collect the fine dust at the source and their way too open filters greatly increase our exposure by constantly recycling the unhealthiest fine dust.
> 
> ...."He said at typical hobbyist blower pressures we need all 6inch diameter duct, fittings, machine dust ports, and flex hose to move enough air to capture the fine dust as it is made"



I'd suggest using short lengths, and 4" as a minimum, and beware of his warning....as you are talking about going even less. (63mm?)




Bill Pentz Website":36hc0xmy said:


> my manufacturer's representative gave me bad information telling me nonsense about air cleaners and dust collectors



Hmm, I'd take anything everybody (including us) says with a pinch of salt.

Adam


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## Michel (19 Nov 2004)

Hi adam,

I've had a look at Bill Pentz Website and from what i can understand most peoples dust collection systems seem to be inadequate for fine dust collection unless you have 6inch + ducting and a huge blower and cyclone combination. Plus you would need to upgrade all your connections on your machines to 6 inch. I'm very concerned about the fine dust issue after reading his site and I'm now even more determined to get it right for my own health and my family. So it looks like vacuum systems are just no good at all for fine dust collection.

Looks like i need to look into a cyclone system of some sort :? 

I can see that this is going to take some time to resolve.

Although I'm concerned about the health issue, it does concern me that the cost of this system will be phenomenal :!: 

If i didn't enjoy woodworking so much i would almost be tempted to give up for my own health and family.

Am i over reacting :?: :?: 

any comments or opinions would be appreciated  

Regards

Michel


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## Adam (19 Nov 2004)

Michel":3m850c6l said:


> Am i over reacting :?: :?:
> 
> any comments or opinions would be appreciated
> Regards Michel



Yes and no, I'm no expert on dust extraction, so if you have genuine concerns, talk to a professional.

DaveL built his own cyclone ...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2352

Personally, if I wasn't in the workshop (with some risk of dust exposure) I might be drinking in the pub with the additional long terms risks of a heart attack or exposure to smoke. Sitting in front of the TV like a vegetable isn't much better (I'd die of boredem). Everything is about balanced risk. 

Use more hand tools?

Adam


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## Michel (19 Nov 2004)

Hi,

I guess the only machines that create fine dust are sanders or routers. Unless using MDF. So as long as you are using ply or wood (apart from sanding and routing) the risks of being exposed to fine dust are minimal anyway.

Just a thought :wink: 

Regards

Michel


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## Adam (19 Nov 2004)

Michel":3qq0bcq0 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I guess the only machines that create fine dust are sanders or routers.
> Michel



What surprised me is how much the tablesaw creates. 

In my own "percieved order" of "fineness" of dust - nto quantity produced

#1 sander
#2 lathe
#3 router
#4 Planer/Thicknesser
#5 bandsaw
#6 tablesaw
#7 jigsaw
#8 drill press
#9 morticer - (not much at all)

Only with the last 3 do I not use duest extraction - although I don't *always* use the extra with the ones at the top - sometimes just a dust mask. I do not consider myself to have got my system to a level I am happy with yet. I'm still working out my options. In the meantime, anythign is better than nothing.

Adam


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## cambournepete (19 Nov 2004)

I think you _are_ over-reacting.

IMHO, unless you're breathing dust all day every day you've not got a lot to worry about.

I guess the camvac will be adequate for your needs; you can always add a workshop air filter to get rid of any stray fine dust.

I intend to build an outside cover for my twin bag chip collector/extractor so the dust from this stays outside my garashop.

You can always get a powered respirator as well - and wear it all the time your're in your shop.


Cheers,

Pete


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## Michel (19 Nov 2004)

Hello,

Yes i agree i have over-reacted to the Bill Pentz Website. But it does make interesting reading and does make you think about the fine dust issue.

As in my previous post i think in my new workshop i will use my HA2600 for my machines and use either a Camvac or similar to connect up my mitre saw and power tools etc.

Might look into getting a workshop air filter like the jet one in the future once i have saved some pennies  

Do any of you use a powered respirator :?: Any good :?: 

Thank you for all the info and advice it has been very helpful  

Regards

Michel


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## beech1948 (19 Nov 2004)

Hi All,

I am a bit puzzled by the apparent lack of differences between Camvac and Record DC. The Record DX4000 seems to be the equivalent to the Camvac 386 but the Record has a 4 inch inlet the Camvac only 2.5 inches.
The Camvac being quite a bit more money. They use similar if not exactly the same filters and internal bags as far as I can see.

If the originator of this question were to install the Record DX4000 as a base for an extractor system with 4 inch hose, a fine dust collector ( Jet say or Axminster MFM) and wore a mask such as the AirAce from Trend rather than a powered respirator would this solve all his problems. 

The Record could also cater for smaller power tools eg sanders because it currently comes with a hose kit to adjust from 4 inch to whatever typical size smaller tools use. Possibly the only issue is that the Record has only 80 litre of space before it is full...probably effective usefull space is 60 litre before performance drops off a bit. ( just a guess).

I'm just curious as to how far we would need to go. The cyclone solution has some issues of space ( large footprint) to worry about, probably self manufacture and possibly still would need an additional fine dust separator with costly exhaust filters to be in the loop. 

By the way I'm not a fan of those tall bag type collectores as they are designed to return particles from 5 micron down wards to the workshop atmosphere...so you would still need the Jet air filter as well.

What do you all think.?


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## Midnight (19 Nov 2004)

Beech...

you're not too far from the mark... the accepted norm is that you definitely need an HVLP system for large "chip creating" tools, and HPLV for "dust creating" tools. No matter how hard you try, you'll never have a system that's 100% effective even with the ceiling mounted filter. Best bet is to try to remove as much as possible at its source; a table saw with dust extraction built into the blade guard will help, esp if you're cutting sheet goods. Tailed hand tools that can couple directly to a shop vac _*should*_ be considered essential IMHO. 
It's been my experience however that there is a viable alternative. I'm not gonna say easier... nor cheaper... 
Hand tools simply don't create dust. If you can get into the habit of using a smoothing plane rather than a sander, that's gonna make a huge impact. Steering clear of material that's prone to being reduced to dust helps too. Hand tools work for me cos I hate to wear face masks in the shop, although I do when there's no alternative.

On a side note.. it pays to set aside some time now and then to thoroughly vac the entire shop down, ceiling, walls, floor, under / around all the big machines, stock shelves etc; you'd be amazed at just how much can accumulate over time.


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## Alf (20 Nov 2004)

Midnight":2be8blqu said:


> If you can get into the habit of using a smoothing plane rather than a sander


And/or scrapers.

Cheers, Alf

Enjoying the novelty of watching someone else apply grease to The Slope


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## PitBull (20 Nov 2004)

Regarding which tools create fine dust or not.

I was flattening a badly out-of-true beech bench top in the week using a hand-held power planer (Bosch green jobbie). I didn't expect any fine dust so didn't bother switching on the Jet air filtration unit, didn't connect the E/B dust extractor and didn't wear a face mask - just decided to sweep up the shavings at the end of the session. I was coughing through the night. 

The following night on continuing this exercise I turned on the air filtration unit and wore a face mask. No coughing at all, and I was much surprised at how dusty and brown was the previously blue and pristine air filtration outer filter. Just goes to show !!!


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## beech1948 (20 Nov 2004)

Midnight,

I agree with what you say about hand tools. In my post I was just trying to find the lowest cost way to solve the orginal post as an exercise. 

The hand tool revolution had until recently past me by. I was a confirmed Normite and relied upon my machines for accuracy and some precision. Wait for it, gloat that is .....I have a Felder 341 combo which lives upto the fantasy so well that I have got used to dialing in a cut size and just getting exactly that cut.

However, I recently decided to make myself a bench with front and tail vice. I did not have one because using machines I did not really need a set of vices. My assembly table and a raft of clamps was all I needed.

The bench came about because I inherited some of my fathers tools and tried to use them. Bad mistake. So I have made my bench using only hand tools. Dust poroduction has reduced a lot. Sawing down planks means I had to buy an old Disston rip saw, I have learnt that a scraper or a plane leaves a great finish rather than sanding on some timbers and my scrap pile has reduced remarkably as I practiced dovetails and M&T joints from very large to very small. 

I found a secondhand tool shop in Norfolk which furnished me with a set of pre-1930 chisels which are all Sorby or Marples, some pig sticker mortice chisels a set of paring chisels and so on. I am not a collector but I will not tell you where this marvelous shop is until I have plundered it. Average price for chisles was £6.31 and most were as new.

My poor Felder is wondering why It's not getting any of the smaller fine cuts these days as it is used mainly for initial cutting out and P/T with mu hands doing much of the rest of the work.

The quality of my work by hand is not as good as my machine work...yet but the gap is visibly closing as I practice.

Sorry for long rant.


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## Midnight (20 Nov 2004)

Alf Wrote..


> And/or scrapers.



Indeed.. 



> Enjoying the novelty of watching someone else apply grease to The Slope



grease..???? naa.. 'orrible stuff... I'll stick with irradiated PTFE... AKA Type 44 awsome stuff... :twisted:


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## Alf (20 Nov 2004)

beech1948":1garo2oo said:


> I found a secondhand tool shop in Norfolk... <snip> I am not a collector but I will not tell you where this marvelous shop is until I have plundered it.


I say! Foul! We'll jolly well call you a collector if you _don't_ share.



I'm obviously _not_ a collector 'cos I do.





Mike, PTFE?! On a _hand tool_ slope?! Fie and forsooth.





Cheers, Alf


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## Midnight (20 Nov 2004)

> Mike, PTFE?! On a hand tool slope?! Fie and forsooth



definately...

just cos they're handraulic, doesn't mean they can't be cutting edge..


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## Alf (20 Nov 2004)

Midnight":3o3s1cjk said:


> cutting edge..


Groan, groan, groan...


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## Midnight (20 Nov 2004)

> Groan, groan, groan...



ummmmmmm....... that was unintentional..


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## ProShop (20 Nov 2004)

> Sawing down planks means I had to buy an old Disston rip saw,


 AAhhhhhh Bliss, now were talking proper saws.  

If we're into the gloating season, did I mention I have a couple of these fine examples


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## Michel (20 Nov 2004)

Hello everyone,

just been doing a comparison of the camvac 386, record dx4000 and axminster WV2.

The WV2 although the most expensive seems to have a few good extra features: - drum can be easily emptied thanks to the Axminster polythene bag collection system fitted as standard, plus vacuum extractors are factory fitted with noise reducing acoustic lids to ensure acceptable noise levels

WV2 info

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=23673&recno=13

Any thoughts :?: 

Regards

Michel


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## beech1948 (20 Nov 2004)

Alf,

>>>I say! Foul! We'll jolly well call you a collector if you don't share. I'm obviously not a collector 'cos I do. <<

Look here Alf..I'm just beginning to catch up here. Its not a foul its just good sense. If I told you where the shop is you lot would be across the country to Norfolk faster than I would claim a lottery win.

Who is not a collector ????????????????????????????????????


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## ProShop (20 Nov 2004)

Michel":1uz34sys said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> just been doing a comparison of the camvac 386, record dx4000 and axminster WV2- drum can be easily emptied thanks to the Axminster polythene bag collection system fitted as standard,



The Record also has a plastic bag for easy emptying, noticed this today as I was looking at one.


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## beech1948 (21 Nov 2004)

Michel,
The Axminster also wins on rate of suction at 380m3 wheras the r\Ecord manages only 106m3. I don't know about the Camvac as I'm too lazy to look it up but the more actual suction power the better. Record do say they collect particle sizes down to 0.1 micron I think...but how real this is I don't know.


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## ProShop (21 Nov 2004)

beech1948":38axzfud said:


> The Axminster also wins on rate of suction at 380m3 wheras the r\Ecord manages only 106m3. I don't know about the Camvac as I'm too lazy to look it up but the more actual suction power the better. Record do say they collect particle sizes down to 0.1 micron I think...but how real this is I don't know.


Beech1948, I assume this is for the Axminster WV2 which is £456, almost twice the money as the others mentioned, IMHO far to expensive for a FAN in a CAN :shock: 

The CamVac is tailor made to each customers requirements, as they make the units themselves, (Record & Axminster are just resellers of badged equipment) you can have up to 3 fans if you whish, they supply everything from the extractors to the ducting, blast gates, etc, you name it. You can have a very capable unit from around £200

The way the different suppliers rate their machines Air Flow is a little confusing. :? Hence the big difference you mention for the Record & Axminster.

Axminster rate their machines Airflow in Sq Metres per Hour.

Record rate their machines Airflow in Litres per Second.
So working out comparisons is a little tricky. :? :?

Camvac also measure Airflow in Litres per Second.

But I've done a little research on conversions to help anyone who's interested.
1 litre = 0.035Ft
1Ft = 28.3 Litres
1 Litre/Sec = 2.12 Ft/Min
1 lire/Sec = 3.6m/Hr
1m/Hr = 0.28Litres/Sec
Phew... Think thats all there...


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## Michel (21 Nov 2004)

Hello all,

Axminster WV2 = 390 m3/hr = 109.2 litre/sec

Camvac 386 (twin motor) = 388 m3/hr = 108 litre/sec

Record DX4000 = 381.6 m3/hr = 106 litres/second

Not much in it really just need to find out if the Camvac also has a plastic bag for easy emptying.

Regards  

Michel


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## ProShop (21 Nov 2004)

> Hello all,
> 
> Axminster WV2 = 390 m3/hr = 109.2 litre/sec
> 
> ...



Good to see my research was worthwhile 

As Camvac do a wall mounted with plastic sack, I wouldn't have thought
having a plastic bag in the can would be a problem, as you say, best to check though. The GV336 was on offer yesterday at the NOEWS, for£183.15 inc vat
with complete standard 2.5" Tool Kit and Wheels.
The GV286 was only £166.34 same tool kit & wheels.
And the Wall mounted 200Lt was £183.09 with Complete Standard Tool Kit.

They were also selling with an order for a unit acomplete dust collection kit for £52 which included 8X3 lengths of clear tubing, 16 external connectors, 4 Tjunctions, 2 90% elbows, 5 blast gates, 14"-2.5 reducer.

Hope this helps anyone


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## Noel (21 Nov 2004)

Record (DX5000 anyway, similar to the DX4000) and the Axminster are 4" whereas the Camvac is 2.5". What put off me off the Camvac was the small bore, especially considering all my machines have 4" ports. I'd rather have a bigger bore going into a smaller bore rather than vice versa. Also less chance of blockage with the 4" models. For handheld dust and chip producers a shopvac is the business.
MHO

Noel


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## ProShop (21 Nov 2004)

Noely":ghsiska2 said:


> Record (DX5000 anyway, similar to the DX4000) and the Axminster are 4" whereas the Camvac is 2.5". What put off me off the Camvac was the small bore, especially considering all my machines have 4" ports.
> 
> Noel



Noely, 
I spoke to Camvac and they will fit a 4" outlet for anyone who wishes instead of the 2.5"
and use an 4" to 2.5" adaptor for the small power tools.

Many thanks for the info on the Record machine by the way.


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## Noel (22 Nov 2004)

I sit corrected John, didn't know they also did 4".

Noel


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## Michel (22 Nov 2004)

Re.



> The Record also has a plastic bag for easy emptying, noticed this today as I was looking at one.



Have spoken to Records technical department and they told me: - there is no bag on the DX4000 because the bag would block off the hose inlet.

Regards


Michel


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## Noel (22 Nov 2004)

It's the DX5000 that has the bag, as well as some other smaller model. The DX4000 collects it's chips in the drum.

Noel


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## Michel (22 Nov 2004)

Sorry I misunderstood i thought Fixit was referring to the DX4000 compared to the axminster WV2

My mistake

regards

Michel


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## duncanh (23 Nov 2004)

I was at Harrogate show this weekend and one of the turners was using a camvac and really rated it. One feature he said was particularly useful (and demonstrated) was the exhaust port of the motor which was the same diameter as the inlet, and to which he had fitted a length of ducting. This lessened the noise and could be used to redirect warm exhaust air across whatever he was working on, blowing sanding dust away from him and towards the inlet tube.
I was at the camvac stand and they used this as a selling feature but said they hadn't thought of it until the turner mentioned it to them.

Duncan


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## Jake (23 Nov 2004)

Camvac doesn't have a bag (unless it's the wall-hung one). It's easy enough to empty, though. Comes with a blanking cap for the hose inlet, take off the lid with motors and walk out to wheely bin/where-ever, take the main filter off the top of the main can, and tip.

Jake


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