# Where to find blades for Record no 050 plane?



## Gebbly (19 May 2014)

Hi All,
Had another fun jaunt to the local car boot sale yesterday and in my haul I managed to spot amongst some odds and ends a Record no 050 combi plane. No box or instructions or anything and the only blade was the one in it. However it was worth a punt since the chap wanted 50p for it 

Does anyone know if I need particular blades for it or are they generic sizes across different makes of combi plane (in which case if I could find some blades for a Record 44 or a Stanley I could use those)? Secondly does anyone have any suggestions of places I could get some suitable blades?

Oh and lastly I saw something about some sort of cross cut brackets for it? What are these?


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## Harbo (19 May 2014)

Ray Iles sells them


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## Carl P (19 May 2014)

They often come up on ebay,

Carl

Forgot to say, don't know if the stanley 50 are compatible, but 044 are not, and neither are Record 405 (don't ask how I know this!)


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## Vann (19 May 2014)

Gebbly":3azz57m5 said:


> Does anyone know if I need particular blades for it or are they generic sizes across different makes of combi plane (in which case if I could find some blades for a Record 44 or a Stanley I could use those)? Secondly does anyone have any suggestions of places I could get some suitable blades?


Yes you do need particular cutters with it. Stanley originally made the No.50 without an adjuster (1884-1935). In 1932 Record brought out their No.050 and the following year added a screw type adjuster. Not to be outdone, Stanley added a lever type adjuster to their No.50 in 1936.

So pre 1936 Stanley No.50 cutters don't come with a nick to fit the Record adjuster. Post 1936 Stanley No.50 cutters come with grooves on the underside, that don't fit the Record adjuster. If you want to use the adjuster you'll need to obtain a set of genuine or replacement Record No.050 cutters. If you don't care about having an adjuster (and let face it, the Record No.043 plough plane works well enough without one), then you can remove the adjuster screw knob and use just about any combination plane cutters.

Still a damned good buy for 50p =D> 

Cheers, Vann.


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## Gebbly (19 May 2014)

Yes I was quite pleased with it. It was one of the last stalls and people were clearing up. It was amongst some toys sitting in a flower basket. The chap said it was going for £2 but since it was the end of the day he'd take 50p. After a preliminary check all the screws move freely and there is very little rust. Just going to need a little cleaning.

Only reason I knew what I was looking at was the previous day I had been watching one of Paul Sellers videos in which he used one to put in some dados.

So far spare blades are proving elusive. I have phoned Ray Iles and spoke to a helpful lady who says she is'nt sure if they make those particular cutters.

Vann, interesting about all the different variants. I guess it was more about getting customers tied in to your brand rather than creating industry standards in that instance, shame.

If I end up having to make do without the adjuster and removing the screw which cutters would then fit into the plane?

The other alternative is to try and find another Record 050 in a bad state with parts missing or something (hence cheap) which comes with a set of cutters in reasonable condition. I shall dig some more and interested in any suggestions or advice anyone has.

thanks for the help so far.


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## Vann (19 May 2014)

Gebbly":1z41dk7g said:


> If I end up having to make do without the adjuster and removing the screw which cutters would then fit into the plane?


Without the adjuster you can fit cutters from Record No.043, 044, 405; Stanley No.50, the simpler cutters from a No.45 & No.55, and probably most of the cutters from their more modern plough planes (whose model numbers I can't recall at present). Also the more modern Record 044c, 045c and 050c cutters look like they woud fit (in fact they may even have their notches in the correct place for the adjuster). You can also buy cutters for the Clifton multiplane to fit.

However, buying new cutters can turn your bargain No.050 into an expensive undertaking, making it cheaper to have bought a plane with a full set of cutters....



Gebbly":1z41dk7g said:


> The other alternative is to try and find another Record 050 in a bad state with parts missing or something (hence cheap) which comes with a set of cutters in reasonable condition.


Yup. That or just buy one or two that you actually need from Clifton or Ray Iles. I've picked up odd cutters for a Stanley No.45 that came with a box of plane parts, several years ago. And last year picked up a few Record 050 cutters with a Stanley No.78 rebate plane 

citric-acid-and-pitted-cutters-t69049.html?hilit=Record%20050

If you keep an eye out long enough, something will show up cheap.

Cheers, Vann.


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## AndyT (19 May 2014)

Your best bet is probably eBay unless you can find a set at the next boot sale for 50p. 
I have cut notches in 044 cutters using a little Dremel style cutting wheel. 

The cutters for the later 050C will also fit.

Some cutters will clamp ok but be too long to use the adjuster. The important constraint is the thickness.


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## RKrush (20 May 2014)

I am almost certain that Clifton make the blades the same as the Record #50. Have been meaning to get a new 3/8 cutter for mine, but have not got around to it. I was going to ring and check with them that the measurement to the notch was the same and on the correct side. The contact is http://www.clico.co.uk/contact.html if you are interested


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## Billy Flitch (20 May 2014)

Van is right when he says that Stanley made irons for the 50 with grooves in the back, but in the seventy's Stanley tried to up grade a lot of there tools. These tools are usually numbered with a 12 in front of the original number so a 50 would be a 12-50. I have heard these planes described as boat anchors with yellow handles.

Never the less I have found the 12-50`s more man for the job than the original 50`s, and the 12-50 iron do have a notch in the side but whether they match a record I just cant say.


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## Vann (20 May 2014)

RKrush":2osalryi said:


> I am almost certain that Clifton make the blades the same as the Record #50...


Not quite. The Clifton/Clico Multiplane, like Record's No.405, is a clone of Stanley's No.45, and the cutters are longer than 050 cutters (and have the nick on the wrong side).

Here's a photo of various combination plane cutters that I have access to.




As there is a little wear in some of the cutters, I've looked for the longest in each box.

Record 043 cutters are ~75mm overall;
Record 044 cutters are ~90mm overall;
Record 050 cutters are ~72-73mm overall;
Stanley 50 cutters are ~75mm overall;
Stanley 45 cutters are ~93mm overall;
My sole Clifton Multiplane cutter is 92mm overall;
Stanley 12-50x cutters are ~85mm overall;
Unfortunately the only two Stanley 12-50x (or whatever) cutters I have, are too narrow to have a notch (assuming any have a notch).

So as you can see, none of the cutters from other planes will fit the Record 050 without modification - if you want to use the adjuster. Even if the Stanley 12-50x cutters have the notch in the correct location, the cutter will be too long and will stick out the bottom of the No.050 by about 12mm. On the other hand, any of the cutters shown could be easily modified to fit a Record 050 by shortening the cutter and filing/grinding a notch.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

edit: length of Clifton cutter corrected to 92mm (not 72mm)


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## Billy Flitch (21 May 2014)

Well done Vann, very well documented. I checked the Stanley 12-50s and just as you suspected the notch is on the opposite side to the Record irons.


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## Gebbly (22 May 2014)

Thanks for that info. From Vann's picture it looks like it wouldnt be a massive job to put notches into Record 43 cutters. I've got hold of a Record 050C with all its blades on ebay for £17. So depending on which plane I like more (050 or 050C) I may put notches in those blades for the 050.


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## Billy Flitch (22 May 2014)

Gebbly I don't know whether this will help you in your quest, I don't have irons from a Record to compere against the Stanleys but I found this on eBay and strangely the notches are on the same side as the Stanleys. 
BTW I checked the prefix number on the Stanleys its not 12 but 13.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/184-hobel-rabot- ... 2ed1ef2255


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## Gebbly (22 May 2014)

Thanks for that Billy. I have just won an auction on another of that very model.

050C on ebay

It doesnt come in the box but the parts and cutters are there and it even comes with a small hand plane thrown in. There may be some fettling ahead (which is surprisingly addictive and rewarding)


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## MMUK (22 May 2014)

Carl P":1xcoqy1o said:


> They often come up on ebay,
> 
> Carl
> 
> Forgot to say, don't know if the stanley 50 are compatible, but 044 are not, and neither are Record 405 (don't ask how I know this!)




How do you know this Carl? :wink: :mrgreen:


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## Billy Flitch (22 May 2014)

Gebbly congratulations on winning the auction just for future reference it would be interesting to note the length of the irons and with the bevel side up which side the notch is on left or right thanks.


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## bugbear (22 May 2014)

Gebbly":3f9kpxag said:


> ... it even comes with a small hand plane thrown in.



That looks like a Record #077. That alone is worth a good deal more than you paid!

BugBear


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## Carl P (22 May 2014)

MMUK":17xlyxn6 said:


> Carl P":17xlyxn6 said:
> 
> 
> > They often come up on ebay,
> ...




Well, I had this 405 see, without all its cutters, and I, you know, needed some, so, er I bought some on ebay and......they were for a record 050


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## Gebbly (23 May 2014)

Thanks again to everyone for all the help. I'll be picking up the parts this evening.

Billy, I will reply to this thread with a photo of the cutters and their details to round out the information and add to Vann's excellent photo.

Carl, so you have some spare 050 blades that you cant use?..... 

Bugbear, thanks for the spot, thats exciting news! I had'nt really given the small plane a thought but I'll see if I can dig up some history on the Record 77 and look forward to cleaning it up. It can join the beginnings of my working toolset (a Stanley Bailey #4, a Record #6, a Record 050 and now 050C). I'm trying not to spend large amounts on tools and instead find old bargains to renovate. Got a nice combination square for 50p which was back to working order once derusted and oiled, only drawback with older tools is all measuring tools have scales in imperial rather than metric.

Guess next 2 jobs will be researching best ways to put a notch in a cutter and how to sharpen one as they are a rather more awkward shape than a standard plane iron.


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## Gebbly (23 May 2014)

Just had a dig for info on the Record 077. "The Record 077 plane is used for trimming of joints" Hope your right Bugbear because that would work out perfectly. I would be able to use it on the tenons I was going to shape this weekend


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## Carl P (23 May 2014)

Gebbly":382q8gl5 said:


> Carl, so you have some spare 050 blades that you cant use?.....



Sorry, they went straight back on ebay and sold (singly) for a small profit - still, at least I am now aware that the cutters have both a left and a right, with subtle differences!

Cheerio,

Carl


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## bugbear (23 May 2014)

Gebbly":319o5fcy said:


> Just had a dig for info on the Record 077. "The Record 077 plane is used for trimming of joints" Hope your right Bugbear because that would work out perfectly. I would be able to use it on the tenons I was going to shape this weekend



You'd want (sometimes) a normal, full length shoulder plane for that.

The 77 is a bullnose shoulder , handy when you need it, but you won't need it very often.

BugBear


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## Gebbly (15 Jun 2014)

Hi All,
In my excitement playing with the new toys I forgot I was going to add a photo of the 050 and 050C cutters. The 050C and 077 were in immaculate condition and just needed sharpening. The 050C came with a full set of blades so I will probably just use that and not bother searching for 050 blades. Might put the 050 up for sale with its single blade and see what I can get for it I've clean off the rust and oiled it so its clean, might get a few quid. I've been keeping an eye out for a shoulder plane but dont see any in car boot sales and on ebay they go for about £80+ which is a nuisance.

The photo has the 2 cutters bevel up. I tried to find the 050C cutter with the same size as the single 050 cutter I had.


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## Vann (15 Jun 2014)

Gebbly":2fcj1b63 said:


> The photo has the 2 cutters bevel up. I tried to find the 050C cutter with the same size as the single 050 cutter I had.


Photo please !!

Cheers, Vann.


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## Gebbly (15 Jun 2014)

Sorry guys, The attachment failed as it was too big. Trying to find a way to shrink the image.


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## Gebbly (15 Jun 2014)

Heres the photo resized.


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## Vann (16 Jun 2014)

Thanks for posting that photo. 

So to adapt a 050C cutter to fit a 050 you could shorten it by cutting about 1/2" off the bottom and grinding a bevel on the other side... 

...or grind a second notch opposite the existing notch (1/2 inch lower).

Cheers, Vann.


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## Gebbly (16 Jun 2014)

In fact I dont think there is any obstruction behind the cutter on the 050 plane so you could potentially take a 050C cutter and grind a second slot on the opposite side a little lower down as appropriate for a 050 and you would have a dual use cutter.


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