# Adams Workshop Build Thread.... got walls & a roof!!!



## Adam (15 Sep 2006)

Well, Byrons seemed like a good idea, and I don't want interupt all the good questions and answers coming through.

I decided to start with the trench to bring the power. I managed to 'acquire' a piece of armoured cable from a mate whos an electrician. 

Right, we all know that electrical circuits in gardens now come under Building Control under Part P regulations don't we? Well, you have three choices as a result (OK the fourth is not to tell them). A) Get in a part P certified electrician who does not need to tell the council. B) Get an electrician who works to BS7671 and submit this certificate to building control, or submit a building control application before you start, do the work yourself, and get the somewhat agitated building control to come and test and sign it off. Apparently, I'm the first DIYer in my entire local authority to take this approach and noone in building control is permitted to sign off electrics, nor have they got into place a firm of electricians with test and sign off to work on their behalf. Fortunately, it doesn't cost me for that aspect, and as I was already submitting the building control notice anyway (to knock out a wall in the house), I just "added" on a comment about adding some electrical circuits. 

Anyway, for those who know I suffer with a bad back - no cutting and lifting the trench by hand - so I hired one of these.... (from HSS)







I cut a trench minimum 45cm deep, laid the cable, added some of this 







Whilst I had the trench open, I also laid some CAT5 (computer network cable), Telephone, and Burglar Alarm, and some plastic water pipe. Then I called building control to sign off the trench.

"How deep is it she said".... "45cm I said"....."Err I can see it is, but I don't know why its 45cm" she said..... "err, thats two spade depths, enough for armoured electrical cable".... "ohh" she said, "where do I confirm that?"......."its in the regs" I said..... "where?" she said, "all I could find was something about 'sufficient depth'......"it is sufficient depth" I said.... "is it written somewhere officially" she asked....."err, I'm the DIYer I said, thats your job, but why not look into "BS7671".... 2 hours later, a phone call to say that is OK......

I'm very interested to know how much it'll cost them to get an electrician to attend my property, test all my electrics, issue a certificate and sign his name to it. Phew.


----------



## Adam (15 Sep 2006)

More progress, tree surgeons came yesterday and took all the dead wood out of the tree at the bottom of the garden. You know its rotten when you can pick up a log, probably 14-15 inches diamater, 2 foot long without even trying. When the climber got the top, the first branch (probably 12 inch diameter) snapped off. He said the next big gust would have taken it.

So, I'm on the way to being able to prepare the base......

Also, the timber and shiplap has been delivered!

Adam


----------



## dedee (15 Sep 2006)

Well done Adam,

I do like these workshop build threads. Any designs/drawings for use to see.

With ref to your electrics I am now a bit concerned by my "power cable in a house pipe hung on the fence" method. It was there when I bought the house - honest, and is connected to the consumer unit in the house and another fuse box in the shed. Never had any problems but I doubt is to part P.

Andy


----------



## StevieB (15 Sep 2006)

Congrats Adam. I personally would have taken option 4 :twisted: Your conversation with buildings control seems to confirm many others have done the same - unless you really are the first person in your area to have done any electrical work in the last 9 months :shock: 

What is the final size going to be if you are adding computer cable and water?!

Steve.


----------



## StevieB (15 Sep 2006)

Andy, if its armoured you will probably be OK. If its not then you will not be. Technically it should be buried or suspended on an overhead wire - what happens if your fence blows down, do you have enough slack to stop it pulling out of the CU?

The screwfix electricians forum can be quite helpful (although quite sarcastic too!) so long as you dont take the first answer as gospel and wait for a range of opinions :wink: 

Steve.


----------



## Anonymous (15 Sep 2006)

Hi Adam,

that 'Ditch Witch' looks like a fantastic bit of kit. Was it difficult to use? Did you come across any awkward roots or did it just chew them up? When I get round to building my new workshop I've got a 130 foot trench to dig. I thought I was going to need a digger but the 'Ditch Witch' looks just the job.

Dave


----------



## RogerS (15 Sep 2006)

Adam...brilliant choice to go option 3! Very interested to see furhter progress.

One thought re water. Well, actually two. How are you going to get rid of any water that goes down the pipe? Also, BC get sniffy when water is around as they tend to think someone is going to start living there...so maybe do it on the QT?

Other thoughts...why not run some ducting (as in large rainwater pipes) and a pull through cable for those items you may have forgotten?


----------



## Chris Knight (15 Sep 2006)

I like the Ditch witch - I wonder if you can get a guide rail to run some really big dados up a tree trunk..?


----------



## Alf (15 Sep 2006)

waterhead37":za0zbwp7 said:


> I like the Ditch witch - I wonder if you can get a guide rail to run some really big dados up a tree trunk..?


 :lol: 'Course _up_ the trunk would make them grooves...

Coat, door, I'm gone.  

Cheers, Alf


----------



## ByronBlack (15 Sep 2006)

Adam, glad you have also started a thread, i've not even thought about electrics yet, so i'll be interesting and informative to follow your progress.


----------



## mel (17 Sep 2006)

it a bit quiet from your end adam 
have you got bad weather stopping play ???
mel


----------



## bobscarle (17 Sep 2006)

Adam

When I built my shed I laid 10mm armoured cable in a trench from the meter box. Inside the shed, I installed the ring main and lighting circuit. An electrician came and made all the connections and tested my wiring. He provided 2 new consumer units, one in the shed, the other inside the meter box as we had run out of connections on our existing. I paid him £350 for all the work and bits and I got a certificate about 2 weeks later. 

I could have done the connections myself and my wiring checked out OK but I thought that if there was ever a problem, perhaps even a fire, the insurance my not be keen to pay out.

Bob


----------



## Adam (18 Sep 2006)

mel and john":31jyh1qg said:


> it a bit quiet from your end adam
> have you got bad weather stopping play ???
> mel



Yeah, I've had to switch back to decorating. We're planning to move in on the first week of October, so finishing the house takes priority. The reason I needed to get the trench done, was so the cable could be laid, I could then bash a hole under the house, and pull them through under the floorboards. I've done that, got the floorboards back down, and am ready for carpets. Its annoying as everything has to go in a set order.

Tomorrow, I'm building one of these summerhouses,



which is mainly for my beekeeping equipment, but I may squeeze the tablesaw in temporarily (I also provisioned cabling for that too) as it helps to have a tablesaw operating when building a workshop.

I won't be starting the actual "workshop" build itself, until October. Need to get a concrete slab base built first as well :roll: 



DaveJester":31jyh1qg said:


> Hi Adam,
> 
> that 'Ditch Witch' looks like a fantastic bit of kit. Was it difficult to use?



No, but you wouldn't want to get on the wrong end of it - it'd have you arm/leg off in seconds. Hiring from HSS was interesting though. I think they only have one or two in the country, and as far as I could tell, not only do you need to give plenty of notice, (couple of weeks), but they don't allocate travelling time in the booking, so if your previous hirer was in Birmingham the day before, they won't get it in time. As me and Dad were both taking the day off (it is a two man job, you can't turn it on your own! - although in use its fine on your own - everything is hydraulic) I was a bit nervous about it not arriving, I managed to pull a few stings as Dad knows the big cheese in HSS, and word came down from head office via the area manager to make sure we got it. They arrived bright and early on the day in question. Superb.


----------



## Adam (19 Dec 2006)

OK, so I was a bit slow on the photos..... but a bit of progress at least.....

Firstly, heres is the "trenching" machine in action...






Then the finished trench. About 120 foot total in under a day. Becuase of my bad back, digging, and heavy lifting is out for me. I have to find mechanical machines to do the hard slog now. Only probelm with that is the £££. 






Heres where I hope to have the workshop. its not level and lots of hardcore.






I hired in a local lad with a digger. Levelled and moved some hardcore around.






I've managed to get the woods in, and Dad is helping. This was this morning. I'm in the yellow jacket.






I hired in one of these "miximate" concrete mixers. The concrete is not premixed - its seperate water, cement and ballast. They mix it on the spot - and then I also paid for the use of the "powered" barrow - it takes 0.5m3 per run - fantastic - no way my back would be able to manage that amount of weight at the moment. (as in a normal barrow load - not 0.5m3 !!! 






Almost done. 5.2 cubic meters mixed and in position in 1.5 hours. I'm not kidding we didn't even have a shovel full left over. Because we didn't have to barrow - we were using a rake to level, and a tamping stick to get it flat and we finished in the same time. the main base is 7m x 4m, and an extra bit on the back just for general storage. Again, its 6 inches thick, no metal reinforcing, one expansion joint across the width. Pouring neat concrete is an expensive way of doing it, but as mentioned, swinging a sledge hammer is a no no, and by the time I've hired a labourer - it was cheaper to just get more concrete.






Adam


----------



## wizer (19 Dec 2006)

very well done Adam. I suffer from a very severe back injury and I can understand your approach. I tend to think mind over matter, then end up in bed for a week  :roll: 

Can't wait to see it progress.


----------



## mel (19 Dec 2006)

looking the part adam 
a concrete base . now theres a nice touch 
is it kit form , the new shed . or have you changed your mind and starting from scratch ??


----------



## Shultzy (19 Dec 2006)

I've only just picked up this thread. Are you sure there won't be a problem having the cat5 and telephone cable in the same trench as the mains cable? 

You are lucky, I have a back problem but I have to dig the trench myself as the back entrance is too narrow to get heavy machinery in. I also have to get the armoured cable under the house without lifting the floorboards!


----------



## llangatwgnedd (19 Dec 2006)

That concrete raft is looking good. :wink: 
Hey, whats that big old tree at the bottom of the garden? Looks ready for planking.


----------



## Adam (20 Dec 2006)

mel and john":3ldzgvks said:


> looking the part adam
> a concrete base . now theres a nice touch
> is it kit form , the new shed . or have you changed your mind and starting from scratch ??



Ahh, I'm building two. The summerhouse is already built - you can see it on the far right of several of the shots in dark green. The main workshop - I'll build myself. Stud construction with shiplap edge. Insultation and damp membranes etc.

I think its unlikely I'll even use the CAT5, its just provisioned, but no, I don't see any reason for problems, I've seen loads of installations where it runs side by side. 

The armoured cable has already been pulled under the house (when I had the floorboards up), and pulled through and up under the main electrics distribution box.



Adam


----------



## Freetochat (20 Dec 2006)

Adam - a good start. Are you going to overlay with a wooden floor, or work off concrete?


----------



## Anonymous (20 Dec 2006)

Looking good mate. When does the actual build start? after christams would seem a reasonable guess, but when is the plan?


----------



## stewart (20 Dec 2006)

Hi Adam
Looks great so far - and I guess a bit bigger than your last one... :lol: 
Cheers
Stewart


----------



## dedee (21 Dec 2006)

Great job so far Adam, especially like the toys you've had to play with.

Andy


----------



## Adam (21 Dec 2006)

Freetochat":2bi3wupy said:


> Adam - a good start. Are you going to overlay with a wooden floor, or work off concrete?



Yes. The floor will be raised on joists, which will sit on strips of roofing felt to stop the moisture going up into them. I found this quite successfull on the previous workshop



Tony":2bi3wupy said:


> Looking good mate. When does the actual build start? after christams would seem a reasonable guess, but when is the plan?



Dunno, depends on time, and my back. It'll be built in "modular" form, so that all the panels can be taken down and reconfigured in a new house/location if I ever need.

Adam


----------



## Barry Burgess (21 Dec 2006)

Adam did you fall on your sword and move the build to PROJECTS or was it the midland effect??
Barry


----------



## Adam (21 Dec 2006)

Barry Burgess":2trevf8l said:


> Adam did you fall on your sword and move the build to PROJECTS or was it the midland effect??
> Barry



I moved it. I only just noticed it was in General when I bumped it with the latest pictures.

Adam


----------



## Chris Knight (21 Dec 2006)

Adam,
It's looking good! I am sure all the stuff on the list to do in the house will go so much faster once the workshop is finished..


----------



## mel (14 Jan 2007)

hows it coming on adam ??? 
a bit quiet from your end or has the weather slowed the progress ??


----------



## Adam (15 Jan 2007)

Well, I've got the electrics in, setup on a temporary post just next to the concrete plinth, and bought a floodlight so I can work at night. I figured you might as well get the electrics for the chop saw setup before you start building rather than wasting time running up and down with extension cables each day. Whilst I was at it, I wired the summer house, so I've got lights, power, and a dedicated outlut to run the table saw, so should be able to make any difficult parts on the tablesaw as well. I also cleared the bench, so am officially "up-and-running" in the temporary workshop. 

Adam


----------



## Adam (6 Feb 2007)

So heres the electrics. The little box has a built in RCD and its waterproof. I've also got a piece of roofing felt which I cover it over. Its got a chunk of wood on it to weigh it down.

You can see I bring the compressor down on the cart so I don't have to lift it. It does have wheels but the hand isn't really long enough to move it around the garden.







I've been working in the summer house, preparing the parts for the frames. Its warmer!






I've also cut a recess on some of the cross pieces for the window. I ordered them this morning. Double glazed units - in 4-20-4 clear glass. They will be mounted very high (for security) and although they won't let as much light in, my previous workshop relied entirely on fluorescent lights so I'm not overly bothered. Its security thats top of my list! Out of interest, the prices for the glass ranged from £25 each to £9.80 each. Needless to say I went for the cheaper. Specification was the same for both types. What a difference.






Its going to be covered in shiplap - I need to rip a small amount of the bottom piece - otherwise the overhang will be too much.

First though, I need to trim them to length - the sliding table with a stop is ideal for repeatable cuts...











Heres a pile ready for use...







Back to the frames now. With a little difficulty, I am able to make about 5 in the summerhouse before I'm stuck for space






And getting the Tyvek Housewrap on with a staple gun..






Then nailing a upright on.






This is more like it - outside on a sunny day... I had to make a couple of trestles quickly...






I'm mainly using these for construction






Not all power tools - these cheap hardpoint saws are great.






My "new" erbauer driver copes admirably with screwing them up tight.






More housewrap...






First piece of shiplap on...





















One finished frame.






More part built frames...






Quick lick of preservative






Three finished so far






Adam


----------



## PowerTool (6 Feb 2007)

Three finished so far..just another 21 to go :lol: 

Looking good though  

Andrew


----------



## Fecn (6 Feb 2007)

Looking good so far - Let's hope for some more nice weather.


----------



## Adam (22 Mar 2007)

Uurrgghh snow. Not very conducive to work!






Why does every project create so many TUITs? Anyway, I wanted a bit more security, and privacy for what I'm upto so firstly get the back fence sorted. Its allottments behind, so one day I may get a gardening urge, and in the meantime, a gate will do!






And finished.











All the frames are done now. They still need painting but that will be done later.






Even the door frame is done. I've screwed a couple of braces across for the time being. It will hold a sheet of plywood wide, and I just need to trim the end off a sheet. So it should look nice and square, and plenty wide enough to get all my kit in and out.






The plywood floor sits on 2 x 3" joists. These in turn sit on roofing felt. This stops moisture from the concrete getting up into the floor. It worked really well in my last workshop, so I thought I'd do it again. The plan is to fill the gap with 50mm polystyrene, leaving a small gap that air can move through, helping to keep everything dry underneath.






And I've carried all my timber down. Phew.. 50 lengths of 4.5m, and lots of OSB and plywood.






Got to cut a few sheets of ply. God only knows what I'm doing with that saw.






My little LN put to good use once again cleaning splinters.






Making the floor. It'll be 3.25metes wide, which requires a small additional piece to add to the standard length of 244cm. I choose to add an additional 81cm, which is exactly 1/3 of a sheet after saw kerfs. Again, it minimises the number of cuts I have to make.






And remembering to draw lines so I know where to screw into once the walls are placed on... DAMHIKT. Lets just say I've built a workshop very similar before...






The main sheets.






Deciding on cross piece for the roofing "A" frames. They are 27 degrees, which means was carefully calculated to ensure each 4.5m length of timber had one cut, giving one floor joist, and 1 roof beam. 1 is 2.5m, and 1 is 2m.






All angles cut, and you can see the floor stacked up underneath. Its really feeling like I'm making progress now.






Heebee jeebies I made a jig. I am not using a single piece to form the apex, so need to attach each half across to its opposite number. I'm using 4 screws, 2 x 100mm and 2 x 150mm. 






Heres it after






Drill the cross piece






Its bolted with coach bolts and penny washers.






Having a check. I've decided the cross piece isn't low enough.






Beth has chickenpox so I'm on annual leave. Fortunately, the baby monitor works to the bottom of the garden and she slept for 2 hours. Not a bad stretch to get some more work done!






This is more like it though. Evenings working in the dark. Thankfully I setup those floodlights at the start.











Watch this space....


----------



## seaco (22 Mar 2007)

Brilliant thread Adam I am adding to my workshop and I have picked up a few ideas from you so thankyou...


----------



## wizer (22 Mar 2007)

blimey Adam. You're doing really well!


----------



## Chris Knight (22 Mar 2007)

You're busy as one of your bees! I hope the back is holding up?


----------



## Adam (22 Mar 2007)

waterhead37":2m7ivy92 said:


> You're busy as one of your bees! I hope the back is holding up?



Touch wood. Yes. It was a lot of wood to carry, and I got help with the sheets. I'm wearing a back belt for support a lot of the time, and despite my skepticism, have started pilates classes, and they really seem to be helping.

Adam


----------



## Paul.J (22 Mar 2007)

Looking good Adam.  
Paul.J.


----------



## wizer (22 Mar 2007)

Adam I have been doing pilates for the past 6 months and, although sadly it doesn't help my severe back problem as such, I love it! I seriously think its something that should be taught at school!


----------



## mel (23 Mar 2007)

looking good adam 
now were into spring you may have it finished for summer 
hope your back holds up mate 
mel


----------



## dedee (23 Mar 2007)

Inspirational stuff Adam, thanks for sharing.

Those baby monitors are a boon. I have a two pairs that plug direct into the mains. 1st pair listens to the kids bedroom with the receiver in the hall downstairs, the other set listens to the 1st receiver in the hall and also picks up the telephone & front door with the 2nd receiver in the workshop. All works OK unless the blighters start fiddling with the channel selector.

Andy


----------



## Anonymous (23 Mar 2007)

Looking very good Adam. Mind the back though!


----------



## Adam (23 Mar 2007)

OK, spurred on by Byrons accurate pricing, I thought I'd do a quick divvy up on costs.

The trencher was double what I thought when I checked previously. Total price for the day was £220 inc VAT, delivery and damage waiver. Still, worth every penny to me. It weighs about 550kg, and my trailer has a weight limit of 500Kg. The towing limit for the car is only 600Kg, and the trailer weighs over 100Kg. No doubt it probably would have taken it, but I decided to pay the delivery fee. Having seen how unmanvoerable it was, this was the right decision!

The basic price is £140+VAT, so I paid a good deal for delivery + insurance, but I felt it was worth it for peace of mind.

Next stage was to drop some cables in the trench. As mentioned, I added some network cables (for phone, internet + burglar alarm) to my armoured cable. 

I bought 60m of 6mm 3-Core Armoured cable which cost 109+VAT. Again, this could be reduced by using only 2-core and using the armour as earth, but I feel its safer to have the additional core in parallel on the earth. 

The network cables, again I bought more than needed (100meters) in each case, but its quite ecomonic to buy it "standard" lengths.

Total price, £177 inc VAT

Next up, the concrete base. This was a bit of a luxury, as its major overkill. However, their is some logic behind it. I've got a bad back, so it was not possible to spend a long time smashing up hardcore to form the base, as swinging a sledge hammer puts such a strain on you. In addition, I didn't want to be carrying loads of lumps of concrete which I find are easy to acquire from skips etc. Most householders are only to happy to let you take hardcore, and if you search around, you can get very clean stuff, often bricks from old house extensions being knocked down. I went for a 6 inch thick base - which uses large amounts of concrete. You could get away with much thinner, but it may be better to include some metal reinforcing. I simply poured concrete into the hole. The extra cost was offset by the ease. Miximate turned up. I didn't care how much, or little I'd miss estimated by as thats their selling point. I guess what I'm trying to say is sometimes when you have family helpers, their time is valuble and extra cost which saves you time and accelerates the project along can make a real difference. I paid £20 to have the powered wheelbarrow. 

£622 inc VAT for concrete.

Also some shuttering timber, + tamping timber £33




So that’s the base done. Running total £220 + £177 + £622 + £33 = £ 1052 = Base + Feed Electrics

Now, onto actual timber for making the workshop itself. 

I did quite well on this, as I made an initial order of 250m of shiplap, and they delivered 320 meters by mistake! 

27 Pieces @ 4.8m of 2" x 3" is £205 

5 x Sheets of 12mm OSB = £46

4 x Sheets of 18mm WBP Plywood. = £92

Initial Costs to start Frame Making

£205 + £46 + £92 = £343+ VAT =£403 

Running Total £403 + £1052 = £1455

General Construction.

Next up, Staples for attaching roofing felt + Tyvek Housewrap = £6

4 More sheets of 18mm WBP Plywood £92+VAT

15 Sheets of 12mm OSB £138+VAT

50 Piexes of 4.8m £204+VAT

£510 Total. 

Running Total £1965




Coachbolts, tarpaulin, penny washers £35

Forgot... alarm cable was £30

Telephone + Cat5 £48

Screws 500x No6 x 100mm = £26
Screws 500 x No6 x 150mm = £42

Double Glazed Windoes £9.80 x 10 = £98

Hinges + Door Security = £55

Polystyrene Insulation for Floor £50

Tyvek Housewrap = £150

Anticipated further costs = Felt £300 

Anticipated Kingspan Insulation (Seconds) £367

Total Expected Cost = £3166.

Not bad given my expectation in a post recently was that'd it'd cost £3K!

Not cheap, but as I can dismantle this workshop, it should be fairly east to remove in the future should that ever happen.


----------



## ByronBlack (23 Mar 2007)

Adam, 3k seems to be about the right sort of price for this type of build and I think you have some nice extra features so I think your doing pretty well with the budget, and the fact you can take it with you increases in residual value, whereas my workshop will have to stay put if and when I move, I think if I build another, I will do it your way, definitly makes sense in the long run.


----------



## Adam (26 Mar 2007)

Well I've upped my buildings insurance by 10K to cover all eventualities, and have got Direct line adding a note to the schedule of my contents that their will be 10K of contents. All systems go for construction this weekend hopefully. (Depends on some mates, and a small possibility he might need to nip to India this weekend, so reschedule the trip). 

Adam


----------



## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

> I bought 60m of 6mm 3-Core Armoured cable which cost 109+VAT. Again, this could be reduced by using only 2-core and using the armour as earth, but I feel its safer to have the additional core in parallel on the earth.



Adam - you might want to check that.

As you've bought such as long length of cables, I'm assuming your run from the main consumer board is a 'reasonable' distance?

If so, then you should not earth back to the main board, but sink another earth rod in an appropriate place and leave the incoming earth feed disconnected.

Please also check this with a qualified electrician, or at least someone who knows more about electricity than me, but it is the usual practice.

Rob.


----------



## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

> Double Glazed Windoes £9.80 x 10 = £98



Are you sure? How do you get hold of ANY double glazing unit at £10 each - or are they for a dolls house :roll: 

I reckon my build is currently at the £2.5k mark, so allowing for internal cladding, lights, some sort of lino for the floor, and a new dust extraction system, it should come to about £3.5k.

OK, probably a bit more than I could buy off the shelf, but the build quality is hopefully better, the materials are certainly better, and I've enjoyed every (almost) minute doing it.... not to mention what I've learnt.

Let's face it, if it was about the cost, we'd all just walk into MFI and buy our furniture!


----------



## Adam (26 Mar 2007)

ratkinsonuk":1v0ne72y said:


> > I bought 60m of 6mm 3-Core Armoured cable which cost 109+VAT. Again, this could be reduced by using only 2-core and using the armour as earth, but I feel its safer to have the additional core in parallel on the earth.
> 
> 
> 
> Adam - you might want to check that.



Yes, its a lot shorter, but I didn't want to end up with a shortage. The key thing is to ensure their isn't a voltage drop at the far end that violates the regs for the current you are running. I'd double check the wiring it in parallel. My cousin is a sparky that signs off installations, so he's my "design" guru!


As you've bought such as long length of cables, I'm assuming your run from the main consumer board is a 'reasonable' distance?


ratkinsonuk":1v0ne72y said:


> If so, then you should not earth back to the main board, but sink another earth rod in an appropriate place and leave the incoming earth feed disconnected.



Again I'll check. Certainly I'm avoiding any extraneous conductive parts (e.g. metal water pipes) inside... this site provides some useful info, particularly regarding converting it to TT http://www.iee.org/Publish/WireRegs/Wir ... tdoors.pdf



> Please also check this with a qualified electrician, or at least someone who knows more about electricity than me, but it is the usual practice.
> 
> Rob.



Will do.

Adam


----------



## Adam (26 Mar 2007)

ratkinsonuk":40o73vam said:


> > Double Glazed Windoes £9.80 x 10 = £98
> 
> 
> 
> Are you sure? How do you get hold of ANY double glazing unit at £10 each - or are they for a dolls house :roll:



Ahh this is windows only. No frames. I rang round for quotes, ranged from £25 to £10. This is with a 25mm gap? Maybe 30 can't remember. Anyway, its not pilkington or anything. They've been delivered and are ready for fitting.



> I reckon my build is currently at the £2.5k mark, so allowing for internal cladding, lights, some sort of lino for the floor, and a new dust extraction system, it should come to about £3.5k.
> 
> OK, probably a bit more than I could buy off the shelf, but the build quality is hopefully better, the materials are certainly better, and I've enjoyed every (almost) minute doing it.... not to mention what I've learnt.
> 
> Let's face it, if it was about the cost, we'd all just walk into MFI and buy our furniture!



No way, I priced up some "properly" built comparable buildings, and see here http://www.oakencloughbuildings.co.uk/p ... -072-E.pdf

Your is 20 x 12 right? £8K on there list (ok as a "garden office", but its the insulation and damp proof membrane that indicate its properly built.


----------



## Woody Alan (26 Mar 2007)

> If so, then you should not earth back to the main board, but sink another earth rod in an appropriate place and leave the incoming earth feed disconnected.


This depends on your type of incoming supply, if it's sheath bonded earth at sub station then it is preferable to bring the earth from your main board although the regs do not make this clear by any means, they generally seem to point to earth spike as the only prefered solution . I put a rod in (having previously brought my earth from main board) and it tested way out of spec,doubled up on the rods halved the resistance but still out of spec. At this point my electrician and I had a considered discussion reconnected my previous board earth and it tested perfectly. He then contacted his advisary body the NIC who advised him that what we proposed and tested was fine, so that's the way it is, fully certified. my experience was for every electrician I asked I had a different answer.

Alan


----------



## Adam (27 Mar 2007)

Woody Alan":silw7q4h said:


> my experience was for every electrician I asked I had a different answer. Alan



Given I'm doing it by the book, I've notified Building Control, and they will be sending someone out to "sign" it off. This means at this point, he'll be measuring all these aspects. If I have to sink some additional earthing rods, I'll do that, and then he has to come back and retest.

Adam


----------



## Woody Alan (27 Mar 2007)

I hope you have better ground, because I was going to have to pepper the ground with stakes to get close to the requirement, in fact I was considering having to dig in some serious galvanised sheet/gauze until we settled on the other answer. 

Alan


----------



## Adam (29 Mar 2007)

Whooooo Hooooooooo the floor is down. 



Yippeeeeeeeeee \/   

OK I haven't screwed each panel together but that won't take a moment this evening. 

And double bubble, I've been a bit ill recently and got the all clear from the consultant this morning after some eye watering [camera at both ends :-s ] kind of tests.

O O O 

Back on the ccasion5: :: for me tonight then, given I was avoiding it as it contains gluten. 

Might seem like trivial progress but its the first "assembly" rather than construction I've done.

Adam


----------



## wizer (29 Mar 2007)

Well Done mate, I've had those tests (all three) and they ain't nice!


----------



## Adam (2 Apr 2007)

So the base is down, all the panels and 'A' frames are made.







Click here to see the actual construction in all its YouTube glory!

See the action on YouTube!!!!!! 



_click on image for larger view_

Or click the link below! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8R1Kd6XGoI

All the panels are attached. It took less than 2 hours to get to this stage






We screwed a couple of vertical battons to hold the A frame at each end.






You can see them without the noggins on yet.











Most of the noggins in now. Its starting to feel quite rigid.






Made the overhang, and got some covering of OSB on.






Rain covers on, and finished for the W/E






The overhang should be about 60cm - enough to keep the rain and sun off.






Inside.






So... thats the basic construction finished. It feels huge inside (given the tiny workshop before thats not surprising!). I'm rather pleased. 

Adam


----------



## ByronBlack (2 Apr 2007)

Looking pukka mate! Love the vaulted ceiling, makes me wish I stuck with a roof like your instead of chickening out and going for a flat one 

Good Job!


----------



## Chris Knight (3 Apr 2007)

Adam,
Looking good!


----------



## Alf (3 Apr 2007)

Well, boy, them cows sure will be warm this fall, y'all.  Looking great - but any way to slow down the time delay footage? :shock: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Adam (3 Apr 2007)

Alf":qcr5xdph said:


> Looking great - but any way to slow down the time delay footage? Cheers, Alf



That was slow! Every 30 seconds to increase the number of pictures as much as possible! I could double copy each picture I guess, to increase the show time or go and play on some video editing software sometime. 

Adam


----------



## Mike.C (3 Apr 2007)

Coming along nicely Adam, coming along nicely indeed. It sure is different to your old one.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/gallery/det ... mage_id=84

I bet you cannot wait until it's finished.

Cheers

Mike


----------



## Adam (3 Apr 2007)

Mike.C":1j2mozx3 said:


> I bet you cannot wait until it's finished. Cheers Mike



No, but the back took a bit of a pounding, so I'm taking it easy. I probably could do something but more haste less speed and all that. So for a few days, I'm carefully nursing the back so its not aggravated any further, especially as its bank holiday weekend coming, and I'm hoping to get a bit done then.

Adam


----------



## Mike.C (3 Apr 2007)

> Adam,
> 
> No, but the back took a bit of a pounding, so I'm taking it easy



Sorry to hear about your back. You really do need to take it easy because unfortunately the back is one part of us which if pushed to far will come back to haunt you for many years to come.

Have a good Easter.

Cheers

Mike


----------



## DomValente (4 Apr 2007)

Very nice Adam, mind your back mate, you only get one of them.

Dom


----------



## Adam (11 Apr 2007)

What luck, a whole week without rain. That meant everything was nice and dry and ready for felting.







Heres the inside, ready for insulation.






Heres the insulation. Stacked up in the garden.






Its seconds, so has some damage particularly to the corners.






Dads helping today - the back is better - but not perfect.






I'm using "easy-seal" from Wickes. Its a two layer system - sticky back felt basically. Its rated for habitable rooms, and it probably overkill for a workshop - but now isn't the time to start skimping. Its also easy to apply. If the roof is porous you can use a sealer - but we've used this before direct onto MDF and it seems fine. 






The undercoat is complete.






Next stop is the capsheet - again its sticky back, with a narrow strip on the upper edge of each sheet, which sticks the next sheet down. The benefit of this system is their is no need to have any battons to hold it down. This in turn means no nails or screws need to penetrate the layers. 







Next day, the bargeboards are on (front)






and back.






Basically, the rain held off for the entire assembly + felting. Since then I've managed to get 5 windows in (albeit temporarily) and the overhang should stop any rain coming in front and back. Unfortunately I ordered my double glazed units a little too big, so have to chisel about 3mm out of one short edge of the window. It's a pain, but not actually that difficult.

Hopefully, if I could get the rest of the windows in before the weekend, I could get the door on, and it'd be secure - that would be a big hurdle as I could leave things in it for once.

Adam


----------



## Paul Chapman (11 Apr 2007)

Looking good, Adam. I like that deep over-hang front and back - it should provide a lot of protection from the weather.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Adam (11 Apr 2007)

Paul Chapman":drzh0y7i said:


> Looking good, Adam. I like that deep over-hang front and back - it should provide a lot of protection from the weather.
> Cheers :wink: Paul



Thanks, I learnt on the last workshop that it gets far too hot in the summer. The winter wasn't so bad as you soon warm up once you get started. Hence the apex roof as it will have a vented roof space which will keep it cooler - and at mid day, the small and large overhangs should help keep the sun off the walls. Thats the plan at least. 

Adam


----------



## Shultzy (11 Apr 2007)

Adam, I like the idea of the "sticky-backed" felt.

A couple of questions :-

How easy was it to turn around the eaves?
My roof will be 17' long and as the underlay is 24', is it feasible to butt joint the sheet to save on waste?
Do the edges need to be sealed across the roof?
During the summer months the felt roof on my shed buckles due to the heat. Is this likely to happen to the "easy seal"?
How much overlap is recommended?


----------



## wizer (11 Apr 2007)

:tongue9: proper job mate


----------



## Adam (11 Apr 2007)

Shultzy":7b31ju0j said:


> A couple of questions :-How easy was it to turn around the eaves?



As easy, or possibly a little easier than traditional felted underlay and capsheet.



Shultzy":7b31ju0j said:


> My roof will be 17' long and as the underlay is 24', is it feasible to butt joint the sheet to save on waste?



Yes, provided their is a small overlap. Thats what I did. No idea why, but the underlay is 8m x 1m, and the capsheet is 6m x 1m. The end to end joints should overlap by about 80mm, and where the long edges overlap, again its about 70-80mm.

See here for a good explanation 

http://www.wickes.co.uk/content/ebiz/wi ... gil/64.pdf



Shultzy":7b31ju0j said:


> Do the edges need to be sealed across the roof?



None of the underlay has any additional sealing on any joins, but the end to end joins of the capsheet - they sell some mastic. This is needed as you are trying to overlap onto the grit on the top of capsheet. So you need maybe one tube or two for a whole roof (a few £s) If your roof is less than six meters, you could get away without any masticy-black-stuff at all. You use a standard dispenser like for sealing baths and showers. Along the long edges, the capsheet grit doesn't extend fully to the edge. Instead, an 80mm keepback which is sticky (and covered with more peel off plastic) sticks it to the sheet above once you put it down. In this way, each sheet is stuck down to the one below. I hope that makes sense. I've put a photo below. Any exposed "sticky" bits, you can get the grit of some offcuts by rubbing together, and sprinkle onto them to cover it up. For me, its just not worth it its so insignificant.








Shultzy":7b31ju0j said:


> During the summer months the felt roof on my shed buckles due to the heat. Is this likely to happen to the "easy seal"?



Not quite sure what you mean. Is the wood warping or just the felt. My neighbour (who is a builder) used it to cover both his flat roof, and a large observatory with some really awkward joins around the turret, in an extremely exposed position facing out to the south cost and it worked really well. For me, that was all the recommendation I needed. South facing, on the coast, with harsh sun and severe wind - it was an ideal test for me to be happy to spend the money on it. Its not cheap, I reckon 50% more expensive than normal felt equivalent. However, its quicker, you can do it yourself and make a good job so its a balance.



Shultzy":7b31ju0j said:


> How much overlap is recommended?



Basically all joints need to overlap by about 8cm. I guess its relatively small as it is actually sticks the the sticky bit below. So shouldn't rise up in the wind.

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any more questions.

Adam


----------



## DomValente (11 Apr 2007)

Looking good Adam,

As I understand it you are leaving the areas under the eaves open to the elements, so I assume that you will be installing a ceiling.
Will this give you enough headroom for turning long lengths of board and will you need to put netting over the open spaces to keep vermin out?
Or have I misunderstood ?

Dom


----------



## mailee (11 Apr 2007)

Looking really good Adam, can't wait to see it finished. :wink:


----------



## Adam (12 Apr 2007)

DomValente":27yfhwqc said:


> Looking good Adam, As I understand it you are leaving the areas under the eaves open to the elements, so I assume that you will be installing a ceiling.



Yes.



DomValente":27yfhwqc said:


> Will this give you enough headroom for turning long lengths of board



I hope so. The ceiling will be in three sections, matching the "A" frame, so it will be tallest in the middle. 



DomValente":27yfhwqc said:


> and will you need to put netting over the open spaces to keep vermin out? Or have I misunderstood ? Dom



Yes I will need some netting, and no, you haven't misunderstood.
Plan is to box in most of the gap you can see at the top, and leave a small grilled vent at either end - to let the heat escape. I also need something under the eaves to stop things going up - especially bees and wasps. As a beekeeper, I store equipment and hives, and sometimes this can attract swarms.

Adam

Adam


----------



## Shultzy (12 Apr 2007)

Adam thanks for the info. Its the felt that's buckled. It was flat when I laid it, but during last summer its rippled in a few places as if its stretched in the heat. I was wondering if the the same would happen to your felt, but if its guaranteed for 20 years it must be ok.


----------



## Chris Knight (12 Apr 2007)

Adam,
Looks great! Enjoy the inside now before it has anything installed - it will look a lot smaller afterwards!


----------



## DomValente (12 Apr 2007)

Thanks Adam, interesting idea

Dom


----------



## Anonymous (12 Apr 2007)

Looking real nice Adam, and pretty big too. Make a nice change from the old one eh? :wink:


----------



## swirlyhammond (15 Apr 2007)

I'm about to claim our 12' x 8' shed as a workshop and I need to add electrics, so I look forward to seeing how you go about it.

Does anyone know if building regs can be avoided by putting a waterproof socket on the outside of the shed and running a beefy temporary extension cable to it?

I'd rather do that than face our local authorities!


----------



## OLD (15 Apr 2007)

The regulations came about because people were plugging in electric mowers through the window to the kitchen or into the garage etc when they cut the cable with the mower and got injured they changed the regulations ,to make any place you can plug a external device (mower) protected by a fixed residual current device (rcd). As house wiring has been done to different standards over the years the regs. bring it all up to date.
So swirlyhammond your proposal has no rcd protection unless the main wiring system has one and is not safe ,remember electricians don't mind some one doing the heavy work so they connect and test.
A electrician can do all the work you do not have to inform the council if you use him


----------



## davy_owen_88 (15 Apr 2007)

swirlyhammond":2e3djx02 said:


> Does anyone know if building regs can be avoided by putting a waterproof socket on the outside of the shed and running a beefy temporary extension cable to it?
> 
> I'd rather do that than face our local authorities!



If you don't want to notify it yourself there is no way around it besides getting a sparky in who is a member of a self certification scheme such as NICEIC.

What you suggest will not work, ever. Firstly, fitting outdoor sockets is notifiable. The biggest extension lead you are going to be able to get is 2.5mm² which has a max. rating of around 25A but since the extension lead will have a 13A plug you'll need a separate extension lead for every socket outlet you require, making it a rather expensive bodge.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but these regulations were brought in to reduce the chance of dangerous ideas like this being implemented.

Oh, and Adam, it's looking great. Good job!


----------



## Shultzy (21 Apr 2007)

Adam, another question about the felt. I was hoping to put 4" x 5/8" t&g on the roof and I was wondering if its suitable to go under the "easy seal" as any shrinkage might compromise the felt? Couldn't find any info on the wickes site.


----------



## Freetochat (23 Apr 2007)

Adam - just a quick question. I was going to copy your modular building technique for the walls, as a move may be in the future. Are you going to ply line after fixing or before. I was going to line, insulate and board all in one, but then was unsure of the fixings to use to get secure joints. Ideas welcome!


----------



## Adam (24 Apr 2007)

Shultzy":3sqnxxdd said:


> Adam, another question about the felt. I was hoping to put 4" x 5/8" t&g on the roof and I was wondering if its suitable to go under the "easy seal" as any shrinkage might compromise the felt? Couldn't find any info on the wickes site.



Hmm, dunno, I don't see why it shouldn't stretch. Its not like traditional fabric based underfelt, so I feel, (but don't hold me to it :shock: ), that it would be OK.


----------



## Adam (24 Apr 2007)

Freetochat":1vj2zf7p said:


> Adam - just a quick question. I was going to copy your modular building technique for the walls, as a move may be in the future. Are you going to ply line after fixing or before. I was going to line, insulate and board all in one, but then was unsure of the fixings to use to get secure joints. Ideas welcome!



That was my original plan, but unfortunately, I didn't work sufficiently fast enough, and my team who came to help with the "barn raising" arrived before I'd got the insulation in. As a result, I drilled the pilot holes for the screws at 45 degrees from the edge of the frames, so that they don't interfere with the insulation. Then I'll board over afterwards. When I dissassemble, I'll have to take off the internal boards, to access the screws, but won't need to remove the insulation.

I used lots of 100mm, and 150mm screws from screwfix, predrilled pilot holes at angles between each frame. I think that would be fine. The obvious alternative would be to use bolts, but you will have realised the problem with this is that you have to remove all your insulation and the boards first. I was keen for all fixings to be "exposed" so disassembly was as easy as possible.

Adam


----------



## Freetochat (24 Apr 2007)

Thanks Adam - these were the thoughts I was having.


----------

