# How to check straightness of boards edges?



## SMALMALEKI

Good morning all
I have been making my own workbench. I bought some beechwood and put them in the garage on my sawhorses. I thought it’s a good idea to have them adopting to the room before working on them. 
Unfortunately when I picked them up to edge join them there were all sort of bending and bowing in them. I hand planed them and edge join them as per picture. 

Last night I put the two halves together to measure for the size of the leg rails. To my surprise there was a gap. It tells me there is still some bump in the middle but I can’t identify it with my 600mm straightedge. 

Beside getting a longer straightedge what other ways would you suggest to check and straighten them?


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## custard

A work bench is a great place to learn about edge jointing, the quality standards are lower than with furniture so it's a gentler introduction into what can be quite a frustrating process.

You don't need ever longer straight edges, I edge joint boards for 16 seater tables with a 600mm straight edge. For a workbench the fact that the two boards are swivelling when offered up edge to edge, tells you all you need to know, some well executed stop shavings (well executed=maintaining a perfectly square edge) is adequate to fix the problem.

There's loads more about edge jointing here,

how-to-edge-joint-t112936.html


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## MikeG.

Your very first step is to sight down the edge. That's more important than using a straightedge.


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## SMALMALEKI

I have had a look. I can not see any noticeable unevenness. Running my straightedge I couldn't find any point either. When i put them together with a middle tools strip it shows itself.


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## Nelsun

If you have access to a track saw with a long enough track you could kerf cut them (snug them up, secure them in place and run the track saw down the join line) and be done. It won't help improve your edge jointing with a hand plane skills though


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## Andrewf

I would rub chalk on one edge, rub the other board edge on it then plane of the chalk marks from second edge. Continue until you get a perfect fit.


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## Jacob

You don't need a straight edge. 
If you are joining boards the other board is the straight edge (even if it isn't straight). You sit one in the vice and stand the other on it and see immediately if it's square on, or if there are gaps. Rock the loose one about a bit and you can feel where it pivots, and so on.
If you aren't joining boards and just looking at the finished edge - judge straightness by looking at it. If it looks straight then it's straight enough.
The most common and best design for a woodwork bench is well established and compared to the fashionable "heavy table" model is much easier to make and keep flat, having just one front "beam" and a back apron to keep co-planar , or a double bench with beam on both sides.
This is the single


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## Just4Fun

Have you tried some thin string (or thick twice) pulled taut? String is a cheap and arbitrarily long straight edge.


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## SMALMALEKI

Jacob":2tia5zvu said:


> You don't need a straight edge.
> If you are joining boards the other board is the straight edge (even if it isn't straight). You sit one in the vice and stand the other on it and see immediately if it's square on, or if there are gaps. Rock the loose one about a bit and you can feel where it pivots, and so on.
> If you aren't joining boards and just looking at the finished edge - judge straightness by looking at it. If it looks straight then it's straight enough.
> The most common and best design for a woodwork bench is well established and compared to the fashionable "heavy table" model is much easier to make and keep flat, having just one front "beam" and a back apron to keep co-planar , or a double bench with beam on both sides.
> This is the single




I was making the same one but as I could not do the rebate on the side I followed Paul sellers old style bench. 
I have made a small tool strip which is going to have some holes for chisels and is just wide enough for a hand plane. 
I have had couple of suggestions which a blue chalk might be an easy one to try. 

Thank you for your advice I will take it onboard.


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## SMALMALEKI

Just4Fun":2o922ach said:


> Have you tried some thin string (or thick twice) pulled taut? String is a cheap and arbitrarily long straight edge.




I will try the builders blue chalk to see if it works. That is a simple and practical way. I will remember it for ever.


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## MikeG.

Chalk lines don't make a clean enough line for joinery. It's fine for green oak framing etc, but not for edge jointing planed boards. Don't look for shortcuts for skills, smalmeleki. Learn and practise the skills, rather than trying to bypass them.


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## Just4Fun

To be clear I wasn't suggesting a chalk line, which is certainly too broad and "fuzzy" to be exact. However a fine line pulled tight can usually show a gap between the line and the edge of the board.


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## Jacob

Just4Fun":3mnlqvzd said:


> To be clear I wasn't suggesting a chalk line, which is certainly too broad and "fuzzy" to be exact. However a fine line pulled tight can usually show a gap between the line and the edge of the board.


Well yes but it's easier to just squint down the board instead of fiddling about with string, straight edges, expensive gadgets, etc.
But straightness isn't the issue anyway - it's more about whether or not it fits nicely against the joining board - which you verify by the time honoured ancient process of "offering up". Easiest done vertically with one board in the vice and the next one balanced edgeways on top.


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## deema

Jacob is completely right IMO. There is a lot of fashion when benches are mentioned. The traditional apron bench that Jacob highlights came out of generations of experience. A thick heavy bench is only useful if you regularly use hand tools. The front heavy thick surface is what is used for a planing reference. If your facing or edging a plank your only ever going to need a reference surface that’s circa 6 to 8” wide. This needs to be flat and true and is used as your main reference surface for all joinery planing activities. Larger areas just have to look flat and true....ie table tops etc. You don’t need a true surface for that. The proverbial fire door is more than adequate. 
Jacobs highlighter way of edge jointing is also right and the traditional way of doing it. It’s not about getting long edges absolutely straight and true, but getting a good joint along the entire edge. If it looks straight and meets all the way along it’s good to glue.


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## SMALMALEKI

Jacob":30dja6of said:


> Just4Fun":30dja6of said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be clear I wasn't suggesting a chalk line, which is certainly too broad and "fuzzy" to be exact. However a fine line pulled tight can usually show a gap between the line and the edge of the board.
> 
> 
> 
> Well yes but it's easier to just squint down the board instead of fiddling about with string, straight edges, expensive gadgets, etc.
> But straightness isn't the issue anyway - it's more about whether or not it fits nicely against the joining board - which you verify by the time honoured ancient process of "offering up". Easiest done vertically with one board in the vice and the next one balanced edgeways on top.
Click to expand...


Hi Jacob

I totally agree with you. But I had some problem with the traditional way of offering the ends to the board. 
1- as I mentioned before my timbers had gone wonky and almost had every possible bending. 
2- I had flatten the top side and edges. It not the underneath it as it might had caused the bench top to become to thin
3- As it is seen in the picture I have a strip of Sapele in the middle which is to hold hand tools
4- I have now fully flattened the underneath the boards and put them on two saw horses they are touching in two ends and there is a small gap of about 2-3mm 
5- I was planing to fit the Sapele like a wedge between two parts. Which is going to be difficult if they don’t match straight. 

I am a novice and can not detect a small curb of 2-3 mm in 2 meter board ( sorry). 

I am happy to take any criticism and learn from my mistakes. 

Regards


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## dzj

"I am a novice and can not detect a small curb of 2-3 mm in 2 meter board ( sorry). "

A 2-3mm curb isn't small, but rather very noticeable when sighting down the edge of a board. 
Nothing comes to mind as a practice routine you could try, though. 
Can't remember how I got the hang of it, as it was quite a long time ago.


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## MikeG.

deema":2567crgg said:


> Jacob is completely right IMO. There is a lot of fashion when benches are mentioned. The traditional apron bench that Jacob highlights came out of generations of experience. A thick heavy bench is only useful if you regularly use hand tools. The front heavy thick surface is what is used for a planing reference.............



Why are we suddenly talking about planing references? There is no such thing involved in edging-joining boards. You reference only the two meeting edges, to each other.


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## MikeG.

SMALMALEKI":34j7kc8u said:


> .......- I.......put them on two saw horses they are touching in two ends and there is a small gap of about 2-3mm .....



That's not small. That's a big gap. 

All you do is note where they are touching, and plane a bit off that area, then offer up again. Keep on offering up and adjusting until there is no gap. I always then like to finish with one complete full-length pass with the plane, just to clean up the face after the adjustments.


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## Jacob

deema":19dt4c2e said:


> Jacob is completely right IMO. There is a lot of fashion when benches are mentioned. The traditional apron bench that Jacob highlights came out of generations of experience. A thick heavy bench is only useful if you regularly use hand tools. The front heavy thick surface is what is used for a planing reference. If your facing or edging a plank your only ever going to need a reference surface that’s circa 6 to 8” wide. This needs to be flat and true and is used as your main reference surface for all joinery planing activities. Larger areas just have to look flat and true....ie table tops etc. You don’t need a true surface for that. The proverbial fire door is more than adequate.
> Jacobs highlighter way of edge jointing is also right and the traditional way of doing it. It’s not about getting long edges absolutely straight and true, but getting a good joint along the entire edge. If it looks straight and meets all the way along it’s good to glue.


I don't know what a "reference surface" is exactly. I've never knowingly used one! 
Your work bench front beam doesn't need to be perfect, just as good as you can get it in a sensible amount of time. It's just got to support the workpiece which may itself be bent all over the place and isn't going to sit flat on a perfectly flat bench anyway. But thats OK you are working on the top face of the workpiece - the bench or the bottom face don't matter at all. If it rocks about or bends you slip a wedge or two underneath.
Then you check your progress on the top face by looking at it. Check across for cupping etc with a combi square ruler or similar. Check for twist with a pair of winding sticks. Mark high points with a soft pencil, plane off high points etc.


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## deema

The whole point of the work bench top when planing is that it forms a solid support for the stuff being planed. If the surface you use to plane on is not flat and true, the stuff your planing will also not be flat and true as the stuff will flex over the undulations. The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane. 

I will add before there is a barage of comments that the ‘work bench reference surface’ comes into its own after you have flattened one side. It’s an aid to speeding up flattening the other side.

You can achieve a flat true surface without having a flat a true work bench ‘reference’ surface but then you have to faff around swinging the wood etc to find the low and height points. 

Jointing a board can be done in a vice, however if the stuff is long it will drop where it’s not gripped. You can place bench dogs to support / travelling steady, but again this also allows the stuff to droop under the pressure of the plane. The best way to quickly joint is to use a planing stop and do it on the work bench top. 

Work benches were usually made to be the length of the longest stuff to be planed.....typically doors. So 6’6”~7’ was a typical length. For a small workshop, where hand tools are primarily used for 4 squaring the wood, the bench should be ideally the length of the longest thing you think you will make and no longer.


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## SMALMALEKI

That's not small. That's a big gap. 

All you do is note where they are touching, and plane a bit off that area, then offer up again. Keep on offering up and adjusting until there is no gap. I always then like to finish with one complete full-length pass with the plane, just to clean up the face after the adjustments.[/quote]


Thank you for your tip. I’ll try it. 
Let me make a simple declaration here. 
I know a 2-3 mm gap is too big for edge joining. 
But when I was researching on straightedges couple of weeks ago they have a tolerance of 0.5mm/m. In my novice mind it translates to 1mm per 2m. If we imagine the curve is equally distributed and we have two straightedges of two meters then a gap of two millimetres is within the tolerance of straightedges. Am I wrong? 
Could somebody educate me please? 

Best regards


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## Jacob

deema":3jaugpsy said:


> The whole point of the work bench top when planing is that it forms a solid support for the stuff being planed. If the surface you use to plane on is not flat and true, the stuff your planing will also not be flat and true as the stuff will flex over the undulations. The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane.
> 
> I will add before there is a barage of comments that the ‘work bench reference surface’ comes into its own after you have flattened one side. It’s an aid to speeding up flattening the other side.
> 
> You can achieve a flat true surface without having a flat a true work bench ‘reference’ surface but then you have to faff around swinging the wood etc to find the low and height points.
> 
> Jointing a board can be done in a vice, however if the stuff is long it will drop where it’s not gripped. You can place bench dogs to support / travelling steady, but again this also allows the stuff to droop under the pressure of the plane. The best way to quickly joint is to use a planing stop and do it on the work bench top.
> 
> Work benches were usually made to be the length of the longest stuff to be planed.....typically doors. So 6’6”~7’ was a typical length. For a small workshop, where hand tools are primarily used for 4 squaring the wood, the bench should be ideally the length of the longest thing you think you will make and no longer.


There is no escaping having to "faff around swinging the wood etc to find the low and height points" though I'm not sure what the "swinging" bit is. 
The idea that having a perfectly flat bench and perfectly flat planes will automatically produce perfectly flat workpieces, is illusory. Not least because all four faces of a sawn timber won't be flat to start with and may even change shape as it is being planed. You are just going to have to faff about and use your eyes.
Rule 1. Get into the faffing about habit early! n.b. it will improve with practice!


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## Jacob

SMALMALEKI":3tt5d7mj said:


> ....
> I know a 2-3 mm gap is too big for edge joining.


Not ideal, but if in the middle the boards may be OK if cramped up whilst gluing. Not good if the gap is at the ends - they are are more likely to open up


> But when I was researching on straightedges couple of weeks ago they have a tolerance of 0.5mm/m. In my novice mind it translates to 1mm per 2m. If we imagine the curve is equally distributed and we have two straightedges of two meters then a gap of two millimetres is within the tolerance of straightedges. Am I wrong?
> Best regards


Don't research straightedges! It'll drive you mad. 
Rely on what you can see. If it looks straight then it is straight enough for woodworking purposes. 
I use a combi square ruler but I am not going to obsess over it. Have occasionally used the edge of a builders level as a longer straight edge (setting up planer tables etc) or made my own for similar purposes - verifying it is straight by looking at it down the length.
PS a lot of confusion is caused to woodworkers by engineering ideas being brought in. Engineering works to invisible tolerances, 1/1000" etc. Woodwork works to about 1/64" which is about as small as you can see with the naked eye. For most woodwork purposes 1/64" precision is well beyond what you really need.


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## MikeG.

deema":i2kv65ce said:


> The whole point of the work bench top when planing is that it forms a solid support for the stuff being planed. If the surface you use to plane on is not flat and true, the stuff your planing will also not be flat and true as the stuff will flex over the undulations. The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane...............



Any chance of reading the thread title, and the OP?

This is about straightening an edge, which is done in the vice. However much you guys who obsess about "reference surfaces" go on and on about them (wrongly), it is an irrelevance when it comes to straightening edges.


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## Jacob

> The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane...............


No. It's just that a reasonably flat surface is generally useful, whether it's for woodwork, pastry, jigsaw puzzles, shove ha'penny, you name it! :lol:


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## MikeG.

MikeG.":1rungqeo said:


> deema":1rungqeo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of the work bench top when planing is that it forms a solid support for the stuff being planed. If the surface you use to plane on is not flat and true, the stuff your planing will also not be flat and true as the stuff will flex over the undulations. The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane...............
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any chance of reading the thread title, and the OP?
> 
> This is about straightening an edge, which is done in the vice. However much you guys who obsess about "reference surfaces" go on and on about them (wrongly), it is an irrelevance when it comes to straightening edges.
Click to expand...


Deema chose to respond to this with a snarky little PM, rather than in the thread, claiming that if I had served an apprenticeship I would know what I'm talking about (in terms). So I call on those who worship the notion of using the bench-top as a reference face to explain how that makes any difference to putting an edge on two boards, which is what we are talking about here. I'm all ears.

You don't use a vice for preparing an edge, apparently. I look forward to deema explaining this to custard, who has obviously been doing it wrong for his entire professional career.


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## Jacob

deema":3luktd6p said:


> The whole point of the work bench top when planing is that it forms a solid support for the stuff being planed.


Yes


> If the surface you use to plane on is not flat and true, the stuff your planing will also not be flat and true as the stuff will flex over the undulations.


Not if you want it to plane it flat - checked by looking at it.


> The reason the effort is put into flattening the work bench top is to generate the ‘reference’ surface you put the wood onto to plane...............


If the stuff you are planing is not flat and true to start with then it could flex on a perfectly flat bench surface and end up planed with a bend. Either way you have to faff about and look at it.
The basic planing process is to flatten the best side, then mark the thickness and plane down to the lines. If you do this carefully you don't even have to look at the back - just the lines. In fact the backs of a lot of trad stuff are often crudely finished where they are out of sight. It's only the edges where they join which matter.


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## MikeG.

Jacob":4izb2s25 said:


> ....... the backs of a lot of trad stuff are often crudely finished where they are out of sight. ......



That's putting it mildly. I've seen plenty of beautiful pieces where the back of the backs were finished just with an adze or an axe. Rough as old boots.


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## Jacob

MikeG.":23apthwr said:


> Jacob":23apthwr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ....... the backs of a lot of trad stuff are often crudely finished where they are out of sight. ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's putting it mildly. I've seen plenty of beautiful pieces where the back of the backs were finished just with an adze or an axe. Rough as old boots.
Click to expand...

I saw a table top where the visible edges and ends of the back where they went over the apron, were all planed neatly to an inch thickness or similar, but the inner bits were hardly touched and really thick, up to 3" or so. Saves labour and makes a much stiffer table top!


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## AJB Temple

Jacob and Mike are spot on. I've made a lot of work surfaces and table tops over the years. Perfectly straight has always been irrelevant compared with perfectly mating. Bemused really by what the bench top has got to do with it.


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## deema

I clearly haven’t been very clear in my attempts to help and perhaps caused confusion. Custard’s link to edge jointing is a superb demonstration of the standard techniques taught on how to edge joint. One thing that isn’t totally clear in the initial question (to me at least) is how the edges are being planed. If the parts are being laid unsupported across the two saw horses then edge jointing will be very difficult. The technique illustrated in Custards article shows how long pieces are normally placed on a flat surface that supports it and the planning is done by running the plane alone the flat (reference) surface. Any flat surface when making the work bench will do. 

Laying the the edge off a piece of ply or MDF sheet is often a good simple way of seeing 2~3 mm of gap on a long length. I suspect you have a gently bowed form created by planing between two saw horses.


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## MikeG.

deema":sgjo1dcw said:


> I clearly haven’t been very clear in my attempts to help and perhaps caused confusion. Custard’s link to edge jointing is a superb demonstration of the standard techniques taught on how to edge joint............



Except Custard shows the edge planing (note: 1 "n") being done in the vice, which is the very thing you insist is wrong. As I've said all along, the surface of the bench is irrelevant if the board is in the vice, and if you are edge joining (the subject of this thread), the timber is in the vice. Try to bring a little consistency to your argument.


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## Jacob

deema":1ejqthax said:


> .... Custard’s link to edge jointing is a superb demonstration of the standard techniques taught on how to edge joint.


Except he uses straight edges. Making two edges each fit the straight edge is more difficult than simply fitting them to each other and missing out the straight edge altogether. He also uses the expression "reference face" which is confusing as the term "face" alone is all you need. A board has a (best) face, a back, a (best) edge and back edge. You get them as straight/square as you can first, judging by eye and square, and _then fit them to each other_, not to a straight edge.


> One thing that isn’t totally clear in the initial question (to me at least) is how the edges are being planed. If the parts are being laid unsupported across the two saw horses then edge jointing will be very difficult.


You couldn't plane an edge on a board simply standing it vertically. How does our OP do it?


> The technique illustrated in Custards article shows how long pieces are normally placed on a flat surface that supports it and the planning is done by running the plane alone the flat (reference) surface. Any flat surface when making the work bench will do.


You mean use the bench like a shooting board? Possible I suppose, but tedious. Easier to clamp or wedge them vertically if you don't have a vice. A pair of door props is really handy if you are on site or away from a vice. 
Couldn't find a better photo: these door wedges are knocked up in minutes from scrap, or more carefully on a bench. Brilliant substitute for a bench vice. Stand board in one or two wedge props and put far end of board (door etc to be planed), against something solid for resistance to planing efforts.


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## MikeG.

Careful Jacob, that door will bow in the middle if you plane it like that unsupported by a reference surface. :wink: :lol: 

I just lie a B&D Workmate down, gripping the end of the door in its jaws.


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## Jacob

MikeG.":3mk5fi1a said:


> Careful Jacob, that door will bow in the middle if you plane it like that unsupported by a reference surface. :wink: :lol:
> 
> I just lie a B&D Workmate down, gripping the end of the door in its jaws.


I'm starting to worry about reference surfaces!
Try the wedge prop. Much handier than a workmate, quicker, and take up little floor space. One will do, two is better. You can lift and move the door or board with the wedges still attached.


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## MikeG.

Jacob":2sttt4ea said:


> ........Try the wedge prop. Much handier than a workmate, quicker, and take up little floor space........



I shall. More importantly, they will protect the floor better than a Workmate. Particularly handy if working on a door with door furniture already fitted.


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## Sgian Dubh

MikeG.":j4u2jm8i said:


> I shall. More importantly, they will protect the floor better than a Workmate. Particularly handy if working on a door with door furniture already fitted.


Another option, no better or worse than Jacob's floor resting device, except that it takes up more space I suppose, is to cut a notch out of the end of the horizontal member of a saw horse, or saw horses. Cut one side of the notch perpendicular to the wide faces, and the other at a bit of an angle, say 5 or 10 degrees. Slide the door into the notch, and drop a wedge in place to hold it firm. Slainte.


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## Doug71

Sorry for going slightly off topic but for holding doors throw away your wedges etc and get a Magic Gripper, they are brilliant.


http://www.themagicgripper.co.uk/


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## Jacob

Doug71":ek6m802x said:


> Sorry for going slightly off topic but for holding doors throw away your wedges etc and get a Magic Gripper, they are brilliant.
> 
> 
> http://www.themagicgripper.co.uk/


 :lol: :lol: Only £90 a pair!


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## Sgian Dubh

deema":1nekcpjj said:


> The technique illustrated in Custards article shows how long pieces are normally placed on a flat surface that supports it and the planning is done by running the plane along the flat (reference) surface. Any flat surface when making the work bench will do.


I must admit that's a technique I reserve for dealing with thin stock that's to be edge jointed. Basically stuff that's too flexible to be held in the vise without flexing as you run the plane along, e.g., edge jointing a stack of veneers, or perhaps very thin drawer bottoms using a long shooting board made of ply or similar. 

Apart from that, I've always used the vise to hold boards to prepare edge joints. If the board's very long you might need additional support at the end furthest from the vise. I have a piece of wood with a couple of steel dowels that drop into holes in the far leg (from the vise) as and when I need it. On the other side of this piece of wood there are a series holes bored that can take a short length of broom handle, and this supports the other end of the long piece.

I'm with others on the preparation of edges for making wide panels in that matching is the aim rather than perfectly straight. I also generally prepare a sprung joint rather than a perfect match, but I make the spring very slight.

A perfectly flat bench is ideal, but I've never found much of a problem if the top is off a bit, although I've also had to work on benches that were badly out of whack - not great, but sometimes you just have to work with what your employer provides. Having said that, after couple of decades of use my own bench had developed a hump across the width, which was a bit of a pain because wide stuff I was working on would rock. To improve it I spent an hour or so fairly recently with a no 7 plane and a sander to get it reasonably flat again. It is certainly an improvement on the humped version but did require a bit of deepening of recesses for things like holdfasts. Slainte.


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## MikeG.

Doug71":2ms3yjj0 said:


> Sorry for going slightly off topic but for holding doors throw away your wedges etc and get a Magic Gripper, they are brilliant..........



£37 for plastic ones........or pennies to make the same things from scrap and a cheap strap hinge. Hmm.....


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## Jacob

Sgian Dubh":zj0fh1dg said:


> .......If the board's very long you might need additional support at the far end from the vise. I have a piece of wood with a couple of steel dowels that drop into holes in the leg furthest from the vise as and when I need it. On the other side of this piece of wood there are a series holes bored that can take a short length of broom handle, and this supports the other end of the piece of wood being planed........


One big advantage of having a bench with a wide apron is that you can G clamp, nail, screw, drill holes etc for a wide variety of holding operations. Even fit holdfasts.
G clamp a bit of scrap (or the workpiece itself if convenient) is what I'd most likely do. Helps of the inner face of the vice is flush with the apron.


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## Doug71

Jacob":vhosjdwa said:


> Doug71":vhosjdwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for going slightly off topic but for holding doors throw away your wedges etc and get a Magic Gripper, they are brilliant.
> 
> 
> http://www.themagicgripper.co.uk/
> 
> 
> 
> :lol: :lol: Only £90 a pair!
Click to expand...




MikeG.":vhosjdwa said:


> Doug71":vhosjdwa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for going slightly off topic but for holding doors throw away your wedges etc and get a Magic Gripper, they are brilliant..........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> £37 for plastic ones........or pennies to make the same things from scrap and a cheap strap hinge. Hmm.....
Click to expand...


They are about £20 each and you only need one, had mine for years and used it loads, they are very tough. I used Jacobs wedge method for about 20 years but would never go back to it.


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## Jacob

£45 each with VAT.


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## Sgian Dubh

Jacob":g9ii8bhp said:


> G clamp a bit of scrap (or the workpiece itself if convenient) is what I'd most likely do. Helps of the inner face of the vice is flush with the apron.


My vise isn't flush (my preference), and there's no apron, so the supplementary leg thing does the trick usually. If the piece being edged isn't long enough to span from the vise to the far leg I find I generally don't need extra support, unless the piece also happens to be quite narrow. If that's the case I generally straighten the edges between bench dogs on the bench top. Slainte.


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## Doug71

Here you go Jacob as I'm sure you will be buying some and I don't want you paying too much :wink: 

https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/ ... _0QX-j7TIU

You can buy them individually at some places.


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## Jacob

Doug71":1v4zibos said:


> Here you go Jacob as I'm sure you will be buying some and I don't want you paying too much :wink:
> 
> https://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/ ... _0QX-j7TIU
> 
> You can buy them individually at some places.


Plus carriage £44.90. It's a pair - half the price but still £44.90 too high!
I'm sure they work OK but so do the wedges and they are free (10 minutes work with a few scraps).
And sorry I just don't like gadget substitutes for simple trad ways of doing things!


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## MikeG.

Doug71":1769xdqf said:


> Here you go Jacob as I'm sure you will be buying some and I don't want you paying too much :wink:.....



Even if Jacob liked this idea, can you see him forking out £45 for the plastic version when a few minutes of work with scrap and some strap hinges could produce the exact same gizmo for mere pennies?


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## SMALMALEKI

Jacob":263zg6zg said:


> deema":263zg6zg said:
> 
> 
> 
> .... Custard’s link to edge jointing is a superb demonstration of the standard techniques taught on how to edge joint.
> 
> 
> 
> Except he uses straight edges. Making two edges each fit the straight edge is more difficult than simply fitting them to each other and missing out the straight edge altogether. He also uses the expression "reference face" which is confusing as the term "face" alone is all you need. A board has a (best) face, a back, a (best) edge and back edge. You get them as straight/square as you can first, judging by eye and square, and _then fit them to each other_, not to a straight edge.
> 
> 
> 
> One thing that isn’t totally clear in the initial question (to me at least) is how the edges are being planed. If the parts are being laid unsupported across the two saw horses then edge jointing will be very difficult.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You couldn't plane an edge on a board simply standing it vertically. How does our OP do it?
> 
> 
> 
> The technique illustrated in Custards article shows how long pieces are normally placed on a flat surface that supports it and the planning is done by running the plane alone the flat (reference) surface. Any flat surface when making the work bench will do.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You mean use the bench like a shooting board? Possible I suppose, but tedious. Easier to clamp or wedge them vertically if you don't have a vice. A pair of door props is really handy if you are on site or away from a vice.
> Couldn't find a better photo: these door wedges are knocked up in minutes from scrap, or more carefully on a bench. Brilliant substitute for a bench vice. Stand board in one or two wedge props and put far end of board (door etc to be planed), against something solid for resistance to planing efforts.
Click to expand...



Hi Jacob

This is my take on the wedge you show here. Is there any particular dimensions for it or just as I have done is okay? 
On a different note as I am not joining two table tops together and the strip in the middle is in couple of pieces to make removing and cleaning easier then joining them is not very satisfying. 

Regards


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## Jacob

Looks OK to me. Doesn't do to over-think sizes - just use any handy offcuts. You'll soon know if it really needs to be bigger or smaller. I usually taper the notch too - to match the wedge. Good to leave a fairly thick end to the wedge, as you have, so you can knock it out with a mallet.


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## SMALMALEKI

Jacob":l65mb64m said:


> Looks OK to me. Doesn't do to over-think sizes - just use any handy offcuts. You'll soon know if it really needs to be bigger or smaller. I usually taper the notch too - to match the wedge. Good to leave a fairly thick end to the wedge, as you have, so you can knock it out with a mallet.



Dear Jacob

Thank you for your advice. I used off cut piece of 2*4 for those wedges. 

I have another problem which I thought I ask for advice. 
I need to drill a 30mm hole on my bench front skirt and worktop as it shown in this picture (I have the skirt in front of my bench as well). I can use bench drill or router with a template for this on a free piece of wood but when it’s mounted to work bench then it is a bit challenging. 
What would you suggest to use and how to do it? 

Regards


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## FaecesForBrains

If you're jointing boards you just check them against each other, there is no need for externalities imposed by a straightedge, string lines, etc. unless your plan is that they become part of the glue-up.


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## Jacob

SMALMALEKI":6enov43e said:


> Jacob":6enov43e said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks OK to me. Doesn't do to over-think sizes - just use any handy offcuts. You'll soon know if it really needs to be bigger or smaller. I usually taper the notch too - to match the wedge. Good to leave a fairly thick end to the wedge, as you have, so you can knock it out with a mallet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Jacob
> 
> Thank you for your advice. I used off cut piece of 2*4 for those wedges.
> 
> I have another problem which I thought I ask for advice.
> I need to drill a 30mm hole on my bench front skirt and worktop as it shown in this picture (I have the skirt in front of my bench as well). I can use bench drill or router with a template for this on a free piece of wood but when it’s mounted to work bench then it is a bit challenging.
> What would you suggest to use and how to do it?
> 
> Regards
Click to expand...

If high precision not an issue a sharp spade-bit is good. They are underrated because they do look a bit crude but they work well, though may wander off slightly in a deep hole. Sharpen the spurs for a clean start.


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## SMALMALEKI

It is for passing the vice screw through. It is very important to be parallel and perpendicular to the outer wall. The skirt will work as back jaw. Wondering if there is a trick to drill it straight. 

Regards


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## Racers

Put a large washer on the shaft of your drill. 
When the drill is level it will stay in the same place when you are drilling.
A square or a couple of battens will let you see if you are 90 deg to the face.
Pete


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## MikeG.

SMALMALEKI":3pwk1z9h said:


> It is for passing the vice screw through. It is very important to be parallel and perpendicular to the outer wall. The skirt will work as back jaw. Wondering if there is a trick to drill it straight.
> 
> Regards



Pete's is the method I would adopt, but alternatively, it shouldn't be too difficult to remove the skirt and drill the hole/s on a pillar drill.


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