# Any Old Iron



## Lonsdale73 (25 Mar 2019)

After some iron items which I keep getting told can be found 'any old place' but I'm not having much joy. Could be such items no longer exist in the UK.

First thing I'm trying to find is cast iron hand wheels, c125mm with a bore that work with 20mm threaded stud. I can find the latter easily enough but would be nice to find somewhere capable of supplying both. I'm sure you can all probably guess it's intended purpose.

The next item is something I've head referred to as half-inch pipe, sometimes black pipe which can be threaded one end or both. This is something I've seen repeatedly stated as 'available from any plumber's merchant' but still I can't find it on Plumbersworld/Plumbersmate etc. Are these possibly American terms an we know it by another name?


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## Fergal (25 Mar 2019)

Electrical suppliers sell steel conduit in various diameters, galvanised or black enamelled, like this:
https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index ... index.html

Would that do?

As for cast iron discs for handwheels, I've heard of people using weight training plates for this purpose.


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## heimlaga (25 Mar 2019)

In Finland black pipe is sold by every plumber's merchant. 
Originally the size in inches was the inner diametre. The wall thickness has been reduced in later times so theese days the inner diametre of half inch pipe is around 14 mm. The outside diametre is something like 22mm

The pipe threads used in Europe go by the nominal (pre wall reduction) inner diametre of the adjoining pipe. Hence a half inch pipe thread is around 21 mm measured on the outside.
European pipe threads are Whitworth pipe threads also called BSP. Americans have another standard for pipe threads.

I usually buy cast iron handwheels at the local scrapyards. The handwheels come off valves on the sort used on pipes in industries. They usually have a tapered square hole in the center. I usually file the shaft or screw to fit the square hole but sometimes it makes more sence to bore out the center.
Sometimes I find good handwheels on scrapped industrial machines. The handwheels on my spindle moulder fence for instance came off a bandly mangled printing press.


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## marcros (25 Mar 2019)

the pipe is fairly easily available- pipeline centre (unless Wolseley have rebranded), BSS, etc. The problem is that it will be in long lengths and only threaded one end. You will need some proper kit to thread it, and even hiring it would cost you a few quid.

I would suggest https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-MEDIUM ... 3LY8MS7Zwg as an option. I am sure that they will do longer lengths, but postage pay be an issue.

note. https://pipeworksuppliers.co.uk/index.p ... uct_id=328 they do.


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## Myfordman (25 Mar 2019)

Google for cast iron wheels. Keystone castors for example?
Ideally you dont want to run a plain bore wheel on studding and it will wear quickly and wobble. 20mm bore bearing wheels are readily available and with nuts and washers you can tighten down on the bearing inner with the studding and get a smooth running result.
Iron pipe will be stocked in 6m ish lengths and the OD will be defined by the thread size to be used with it. eg 1/2 will use 1/2 BSP which is much much bigger than 1/2" on the outside.


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## Bm101 (25 Mar 2019)

Used wds once and were fine for ball knobs. Looked to get wheel there too but never got round to it. Lots of options.

http://www.wdsltd.co.uk/product/3699/ca ... -wds-8193/

Another site is Berger Tools. Never used them though. 
https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Home/

Cheers 
Chris


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## Lonsdale73 (25 Mar 2019)

Bm101":fnru00h7 said:


> Used wds once and were fine for ball knobs. Looked to get wheel there too but never got round to it. Lots of options.
> 
> http://www.wdsltd.co.uk/product/3699/ca ... -wds-8193/
> 
> ...



Oddly enough, they were two sites my google search threw up afore I asked the question on here. WDS don't appear to offer a wheel with a 20mm inner diameter; Berger do but at 8" diameter rather than five inch max I was hoping for. The idea is to use these to make a moxon and / or legvice, which our colonial counterparts seem to be able to do with consummate ease and for peanuts. I can buy components from Workshop Heaven for £94 or complete vice for around £40 more from either them or Axminster. But the threaded bars are only 240mm long which, when 40mm wooden chops are added, seems to be limiting the holding capacity of the vice. I have wondered if there's a practical limitation which keeps them down to this size.

The pipes are to make pipe clamps and/or a Jay Bates style vice so theoretically only need to be threaded one end however longer pipes threaded both ends could be cut to produce two clamps. Followed marcos suggestion and visited the Pipline Centre's website, entered "1.2" black pipe", "Black pipe", "Cast iron pipe" and various other permutations around that, each returning over 1000 products and I've now looked at page after page of couplers. connectors, terminals, brackets, valves and things I have no idea what they are called or what function they perform but so far nothing resembling a length of iron pipe, black, 1/2" or otherwise!


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## marcros (25 Mar 2019)

If you get them threaded both ends for clamps, you can join 2 lengths together if you need longer clamps. 

I would call pipeline center, the website is dreadful and will probably give you a list price of £1000! 1/2" black iron pipe will be a standard product to them.


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## lurker (25 Mar 2019)

BSS
Units 3/4 Crofton Drive, Allenby Industrial Estate, Lincoln, LN3 4NR


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## Myfordman (25 Mar 2019)

Keystone do CI wheels from 100mm up.


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## sunnybob (25 Mar 2019)

The "black pipe" you are looking for is mild steel gas barrel.
Usually sold in 5 metre lengths to the trade, but available in lengths from 6" upwards in 6 " increments.

It is mild steel wrought iron, not cast. Comes in 1/2", 3/4" 1" and upwards from any national plumbers merchants. The size refers to the internal diameter. Galvanised water pipe is the same stuff and in the same sizes but (obviously enough) is a silver finish. All UK gas pipe fittings are in BSP thread

All American pipe and fittings are in NSP thread, these are NOT the same and can not be interchanged.


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## lurker (25 Mar 2019)

Bob,
About 20 years ago I was going back and forth "over the pond" and on every return trip I brought back a set of Pony clamps.
These fitted straight onto uk gas pipe, so the threads can't be vastly different.
Until just now, I had never thought about BSP vs NSP but I see your reasoning


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## marcros (25 Mar 2019)

half inch BSP and NPT are the same. the others are different.

edit the same for pipe clamps. I wouldn't know if they would be suitable to seal on a fitting.


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## Lonsdale73 (25 Mar 2019)

In case we're talking at cross purposes thisis what I mean by pipe clamp.


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## marcros (25 Mar 2019)

yes, that is them. the handle end threads onto the pipe- threaded bsp or npt for 1/2" ones. The part that he has covered on the other end can be threaded or not, it doesn't matter.


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## TFrench (25 Mar 2019)

Either BSS as lurker said, or google a local pipefitter. Sure they would be happy to thread you up some lengths of 1/2" tube for some cash.


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## marcros (25 Mar 2019)

what lengths of pipe are you looking for out of interest and how many do you need?


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## Lonsdale73 (26 Mar 2019)

marcros":124aitcq said:


> what lengths of pipe are you looking for out of interest and how many do you need?


That's two good questions and I'm not sure what the answer is. I've got a pair of fittings on order to try them out so will need at least two pipes but whether that's one long pipe, threaded both ends and cut in half I don't know yet. If they work, I will want more because one can never have too many clamps, right? As for length, I have a number of Bessey KR clamps to 1.2m. It'the 600mm that are used the most although there are times when I could use a little more length (story of my life!). 

I also like the idea of a pipe clamp moxon vice a la Jay Bates so that would be more pipes but probably no more than 500mm in length. Alternatively, I might bite the bullet and buy one of the offerings from Axminster or Workshop Heaven, see how I get on with that and if I find I do need some extra width I can buy a suitable length of 20mm threaded and at least I'll have the cast iron hand wheels from the bought version.


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## marcros (27 Mar 2019)

I was just looking at the Bessey K body actually, with a view to getting a few of the shorter ones.


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## Trevanion (27 Mar 2019)

marcros":1u4vs4d3 said:


> I was just looking at the Bessey K body actually, with a view to getting a few of the shorter ones.



I was looking at them also a few months ago but decided that I would probably wear them out, I've already worn out two Bessey Duoklamps (The plastic around the reverse switch tends to break after a while, turns out that's where a lot of the pressure goes). 

For about the same money (Even a little less in the end) clamp for clamp as the K-body I was able to buy brand new Record T-Bar 54" clamps for about £40 a clamp. They also have lifetime unbreakable guarantee, and I seriously doubt I would ever have to take up that guarantee. I suppose it all depends on what you're planning on doing with the clamps too, if you're not using them with day in-day out abuse with tonnes of pressure perhaps the k-body is a smoother clamp to use for most things.


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## marcros (27 Mar 2019)

My main use (not day in day out) would be for box making (mainly) and for clamping edge jointed boards together (from time to time). The slight hesitation is that 300mm would do most of the box making, and 600mm would do almost all of everything but is the extra length going to be a nuisance on most box making tasks. If bessey or anybody else reputable did a 450mm available in the UK, that would be ideal. 

I also have some of the pipe clamps but no pipe yet. That could persuade me towards the 300mm k bodys


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## Lonsdale73 (27 Mar 2019)

The KR's are a much different beast to the Duoklamps. I have some of them to and they cover most of my needs with the KR's brought out when I need either the extra lenght and/or some serious clamping. I have also some Bessey Kwicklamps (think that's what they're called, f-style with rapid action ratchet machanism). I find they are great with MFT style worktops, t-track and tracksaw rails. I'd hoped to pick up some more at last week's Midlands Woodworking Show but Bessey were one of four companies I really wanted to talk to and not one of them turned up!


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## colinc (28 Mar 2019)

Hi,

re the Moxon vice. I remember that I saw something where someone had recycled parts from hand bar bell weights to make one. A quick google search came up with a few examples like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4voqYmO-dvc

Might be worth a thought?

Colin


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## Lonsdale73 (28 Mar 2019)

That's brilliant thanks


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## Benchwayze (28 Mar 2019)

Lonsdale73":1p2arobz said:


> After some iron items which I keep getting told can be found 'any old place' but I'm not having much joy. Could be such items no longer exist in the UK.
> 
> First thing I'm trying to find is cast iron hand wheels, c125mm with a bore that work with 20mm threaded stud. I can find the latter easily enough but would be nice to find somewhere capable of supplying both. I'm sure you can all probably guess it's intended purpose.
> 
> The next item is something I've head referred to as half-inch pipe, sometimes black pipe which can be threaded one end or both. This is something I've seen repeatedly stated as 'available from any plumber's merchant' but still I can't find it on Plumbersworld/Plumbersmate etc. Are these possibly American terms an we know it by another name?



Lonsdale. I have some 20mm galvanised conduit. And I just sold an unused, Benchcrafted Moxon set-up, the other day. Including chamois leather facing . I don't suppose you will be pleased to hear that. Still the galvanised pipe is yours if you want it. 

John


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## Benchwayze (28 Mar 2019)

Lonsdale73":2krppw48 said:


> After some iron items which I keep getting told can be found 'any old place' but I'm not having much joy. Could be such items no longer exist in the UK.
> 
> First thing I'm trying to find is cast iron hand wheels, c125mm with a bore that work with 20mm threaded stud. I can find the latter easily enough but would be nice to find somewhere capable of supplying both. I'm sure you can all probably guess it's intended purpose.
> 
> The next item is something I've head referred to as half-inch pipe, sometimes black pipe which can be threaded one end or both. This is something I've seen repeatedly stated as 'available from any plumber's merchant' but still I can't find it on Plumbersworld/Plumbersmate etc. Are these possibly American terms an we know it by another name?




Lonsdale. I have some 20mm galvanised conduit. And I just sold an unused, Benchcrafted Moxon set-up, the other day. Including chamois leather facing . I don't suppose you will be pleased to hear that. Still the galvanised pipe is yours if you want it. 

https://www.vital-parts.co.uk/control-h ... -587-c.asp

For hand-wheels, levers etc. 

I found the acquisition of 'Acme' Threaded rod to be the most elusive part. I was trying to make lifting and lowering gear for an artists' easel. I gave up in the end and devised another system; i.e I bought a modern easel! 


John 8)


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## Lonsdale73 (28 Mar 2019)

Benchwayze":3u7t5fh2 said:


> Lonsdale73":3u7t5fh2 said:
> 
> 
> > After some iron items which I keep getting told can be found 'any old place' but I'm not having much joy. Could be such items no longer exist in the UK.
> ...



That's very kind of you thanks however I think you're a wee bit too far away. Think I might give Colinc's suggestion a go, see how I get on with that.


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## Lonsdale73 (29 Mar 2019)

So much for "any plumber's merchants"! I've been to five - including BSS and Wolsley - plus two specialist electricians' suppliers on the recommendation of one of the 'everything for the plumber' places and most of them gave me blank looks. BSS at least knew what I was talking about but even with his system down he was able to advise they only do it in 21foot lenfths! I struggled to get 4ft sash clamps into my wee car so can't see me fitting 21feet length in! And that was threaded one end only.

A google search for 'pipefitter' threw up THIRTY-FOUR pages of vacancies for pipefitters but not a single pipefitter!


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## Just4Fun (29 Mar 2019)

Lonsdale73":390joy8q said:


> I struggled to get 4ft sash clamps into my wee car so can't see me fitting 21feet length in!


Could you get the lengths you want in your car?
If so, take a hacksaw with you when you buy a 21 ft length and cut it up in the car park.
If not, there is no point you going shopping for the pipe with that car anyway.


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## Lonsdale73 (29 Mar 2019)

Short of a stretch limo - and even then it might be a push - I'm not sure any car would accept anything 21 foot long!

I keep getting told it is readily available and in virtually in length in six inch increments but I'd been searching for some time before posing the question on here. I appreciate all those who have taken the time to offer suggestions however fact remains 'available from ANY plumber's merchants' simply isn't true anymore. At least, not here in Lincoln. 

2m lengths threaded both ends would be adequate. That I can transport and it gives me the option of cutting 50:50, 60:40 or whatever. Even if I could get it, not sure conduit would work as all the photos I've seen of it shows a female thread.


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## TFrench (30 Mar 2019)

Just4Fun meant take a hacksaw and cut it to length in the car park of BSS... It's 1/2" pipe, its not going to take long to cut.
5 seconds googling for pipefitters:
https://www.centralplumbers.co.uk/contact/
Alternatively, ask the guys behind the counter in BSS for a contact?


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## Inspector (30 Mar 2019)

On this side of the pond the plumbing and heating contractors cut and thread the pipes for natural gas feed appliances. They have the big powered threading machines so they can cut and fit the installation as needed. The black iron pipe is only used for gas supply or compressed air. Are your plumbers separate from the gas fitters or all in one like here?

The big home building centers have pipe, usually threaded both ends, in various lengths. A more expensive way to go. If you have similar they may have some. 

I would go back to the place with the 21’ pipe but buy a pipe cutter first instead of a hacksaw. Much easier and cuts a clean square end. We have stores selling everything under the sun made in Asia and they sell pipe threading kits and the pipe cutters. They will stand up for your needs. Here is an example of what to look for. https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/ ... -p8549024e 

Pete


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## Lonsdale73 (30 Mar 2019)

TFrench":3iet86pk said:


> Just4Fun meant take a hacksaw and cut it to length in the car park of BSS... It's 1/2" pipe, its not going to take long to cut.
> 5 seconds googling for pipefitters:
> https://www.centralplumbers.co.uk/contact/
> Alternatively, ask the guys behind the counter in BSS for a contact?



Yes, I understood what Just4Fun was saying. It wouldn't be the first time I've taken a saw to cut down timber to a suitable length and the possibility of doing the same with the pipe had crossed my mind. However, not only does the local BSS lack a recognisable car park, with pipe threaded one end only the other fifteen feet or more would be useless unless I then shell out for suitable threading kit which I've been advised is expensive; that seems a bit OTT to make a few 'cheap' pipe clamps. 

I did have the foresight to ask if BSS knows of any tradesmen who regularly buy such pipe who could maybe knock out a few lengths for me and I hope to speak to one of them come Monday.


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## Lonsdale73 (30 Mar 2019)

Inspector":2yvipd5x said:


> On this side of the pond the plumbing and heating contractors cut and thread the pipes for natural gas feed appliances. They have the big powered threading machines so they can cut and fit the installation as needed. The black iron pipe is only used for gas supply or compressed air. Are your plumbers separate from the gas fitters or all in one like here?
> 
> The big home building centers have pipe, usually threaded both ends, in various lengths. A more expensive way to go. If you have similar they may have some.
> 
> ...



I spend far too much time watching youtube videos with some envy over the kit available to woodworkers on the far side of the Atlantic. Not just the big machinery, even some of the small accessories. As an example, I saw a tool cabinet build featuring Rockler tandem hinges which looked an absoluttely brilliant idea - if only we could get hold of the hinges over here! Your 'big box' stores sell much better timer than ours do; here we have a choice of pine or nothing.


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## Inspector (30 Mar 2019)

The Borg stores only sell construction lumber and it is for the most part garbage. 

If you don’t have the pipe threaders in any stores then try on line. If none on fleabay or amplezon then directly from China with AliExpress or Alibaba. Takes a while to arrive but is the same stuff the stores sell. 

Pete


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## triker64 (9 Apr 2019)

the metalstore have steel pipe but they are in cleckheaton Yorkshire.


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## Lonsdale73 (9 Apr 2019)

triker64":nuef76d1 said:


> the metalstore have steel pipe but they are in cleckheaton Yorkshire.


Thanks for that. Not been up that way for some time.

I accosted a young plumber in a garage forecourt the other day - poor kid looked petrified. His tip though was to contact the plumbing faculty of the local college. He says they have the gear to do the threading and it sounds like they offer it as a service to plumbers who now use it so rarely they don't bother owning the kit for it.


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## Demusss (9 Apr 2019)

Screwfix do 20mm metal conduit

https://www.screwfix.com/p/deta-class-4 ... x-3m/7734j



Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk


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## marcros (9 Apr 2019)

Couple of ifs, but...

If you can decide what lengths you need and if getting it to Welbourn helps you out, the shop that I linked to on eBay isn't that far from work. I am coming down on Friday evening to my parents and could leave it there for you. I could do with some myself actually. 

Size limit (length) is what will fit in my car.


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## Lonsdale73 (9 Apr 2019)

marcros":1qj18531 said:


> Couple of ifs, but...
> 
> If you can decide what lengths you need and if getting it to Welbourn helps you out, the shop that I linked to on eBay isn't that far from work. I am coming down on Friday evening to my parents and could leave it there for you. I could do with some myself actually.
> 
> Size limit (length) is what will fit in my car.



That would be most useful, thanks. Could you manage 2 x 950mm lengths as a test? I shall be passing through Welbourne on Saturday, once very early morning and again later in the day. As I recall, your parents are practically last house in the village.


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## marcros (10 Apr 2019)

That shouldn't be an issue. Do you want it threading both ends or just one? I will check tomorrow with the shop and see how long they need to sort it.


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## Lonsdale73 (10 Apr 2019)

marcros":2q7kihmh said:


> That shouldn't be an issue. Do you want it threading both ends or just one? I will check tomorrow with the shop and see how long they need to sort it.



Both if possible please


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## triker64 (14 Apr 2019)

Pipework Suppliers Ltd
4.2
(5)
Engineers' merchant in Liversedge, England


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## Lonsdale73 (15 Apr 2019)

Cheers Marcros


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## marcros (15 Apr 2019)

good stuff. I got mine cut in half, for some 450mm clamps. 

1st job that I have needing it, and it would have been useful at 950mm!


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## Lonsdale73 (15 Apr 2019)

marcros":bwqotizk said:


> good stuff. I got mine cut in half, for some 450mm clamps.
> 
> 1st job that I have needing it, and it would have been useful at 950mm!



Ah well, should you find yourself popping back for more I could use a couple more lengths too please.


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