# Mike's Competition Thread (WIP.....First photos)



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Right.......take a deep breath......









Here is my initial sketch for my conservatory furniture entry for the competition.







The theme is bleached bones.......(I hope that was obvious!), and it will be made of sand-blasted ash.

The only certain thing is that this is not how it will end up!

Mike


----------



## wizer (8 May 2009)

Can't wait to see this one unfold. Looking forward to it Mike!


----------



## lurker (8 May 2009)

OOO nice!

Did I see something similar in Brit Wood a few issues ago??

You are going to need to buy some nice spokeshaves ( slope :tool: slope) to add to your plane collection.


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

lurker":35xt0n0s said:


> OOO nice!
> Did I see something similar in Brit Wood a few issues ago??



Well, even if you did I certainly didn't, as I don't read any of the magazines. However........if there was something similar, that was some sick, twisted mind at work!!!  

If mine isn't original, I'll do something else!

Mike


----------



## tulsk (8 May 2009)

Wow Mike that looks grand. You sure have pushed the boat out with the design- looks Gaudi-esque to my eye, which can only be a good thing IMO. I too am looking forward to seeing how this progresses, especially how you tackle the jointing.
Cheers John


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

tulsk":3faykyo6 said:


> looks Gaudi-esque to my eye
> 
> I too am looking forward to seeing how ...........you tackle the jointing.



So am I John, so am I!!!   

Gaudi is right up there with Lutyens amongst my favourite architects.......split personality? Me?

Mike

PS Anybody got a decent draw-knife for sale?


----------



## ByronBlack (8 May 2009)

It's an interesting idea - not sure how comfortable it'll be. I can't tell if it's just the perspective of the sketch, but does that top frame part that comes down from right to left (as you look at the sketch) sit in front of the back slats - or a part of the back?

How are you going to join the 'bones' ? M&T's?


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

BB,

as for comfort........the only way this design will ever get past my wife is if she makes cushions for the seat and the back, so it should be OK to sit on. In fact, as the back won't be slats so much as "tendons" of rope, and the back end of the seat slats will also be on a rope (see the two sketches below the perspective), this whole thing should move slightly as you sit on it to mould around your bum & back.

That part you refer to seems to be part of the back, with the rope tendons dangling off it.........

........at the moment!!!

Goodness knows what the final thing will look like.......and don't hold your breath for a Sketchup drawing!

Mike


----------



## tulsk (8 May 2009)

Gaudi is right up there for me too Mike; I love the organic feel of much of his work and I can see this in your design. I love using a nice sharp Drawknife and a Shavehorse is high on my to-do list. For shaping I was recommended by some of the lads at our village Stickdressing club (don't laugh :wink: ) a B&D powerfile. I was a bit sceptical but ended up getting one for about 30 odd quid. Must say it's been a revelation : rapidly removes wood to get initial shaping in a controlled fashion, as long as you keep it moving. I can thoroughly recommend it.
Good luck with the build mate, I like to see someone trying something a little different. John


----------



## ByronBlack (8 May 2009)

Mike Garnham":1fz3hedc said:


> BB,
> 
> as for comfort........the only way this design will ever get past my wife is if she makes cushions for the seat and the back, so it should be OK to sit on. In fact, as the back won't be slats so much as "tendons" of rope, and the back end of the seat slats will also be on a rope (see the two sketches below the perspective), this whole thing should move slightly as you sit on it to mould around your bum & back.
> 
> ...



That sounds cool with the rope - I can invisage that much better now. I don't envy the joinery though, I look forward to the WIP photo's


----------



## TobyB (8 May 2009)

VERY interesting design idea. As a thought, I have a fabulous bone-inspired "Skeletal Chair" from Tim Steads workshop (http://www.timsteadfurniture.co.uk/seating.htm) and it's made of sycamore which has the right colour and lack of grain that I see regularly in bone. It used to be very white and has now yellowed slightly, just like bone ... and I have sat on Tims original which is now quite yellowed like older bone. I have seen the same chair in ash and elm and (for my eyes) it doesn't work as well. I very much like ash, and structurally/workability it might be the right material for your project - but give sycamore a thought?


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Thanks Toby........

the only sycamore I've got is spalted (& therefore not strong enough), whereas I have quite a bit of ash. I'm hoping the sandblasting will help it appear bleached and weathered, and stop it looking "grainy". If it doesn't, I suppose I could try bleaching.

Mike


----------



## Ironballs (8 May 2009)

Ah excellent, been looking forward to seeing this one come up and I'm not disappointed.

Glad to see I won't be the only person not using Sketch Up, I've been beavering away on Scribble It with the "scrap of hotel note paper" plug in.

When are you putting the order in for the concave spokeshave then Mike :twisted:


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Ironballs":1gq0us9r said:


> When are you putting the order in for the concave spokeshave then Mike :twisted:



Nice attempt to get my excessive plane count even higher!!

I am after a draw knife, though......  

Mike


----------



## Digit (8 May 2009)

Blimey Mike! Rather you than me, now I _know_ that I wouldn't be in the 'expert' category!

Roy.


----------



## billw (8 May 2009)

It's very interesting but at the same time somewhat macabre :shock:


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Digit":2wyq9ckz said:


> Blimey Mike! Rather you than me, now I _know_ that I wouldn't be in the 'expert' category!



Well, Roy, I reckon that the level of entry isn't about how easy or difficult a project is, but rather a reflection of your own skill level and experience. As a guy doing this stuff for 30 years, if I had made a simple plywood cube it would surely have to have been entered into the expert category. And as such, it would have been quite difficult to do it justice!

I was planning to make this (and the chair that goes with it) simply by cutting and shaping, but the more I think about it the more I can see myself doing a bit of steaming. And my experience there?.......Nil 

Still, I reckon it would be a bit dull to do the same old stuff.....

Mike

PS My wife will bury me under the patio when she sees this design.......she is expecting something a bit more Laura Ashley!!!


----------



## Karl (8 May 2009)

Hi Mike

Well what can I say?

I've looked at your design several times today, and still can't get my head round it. I know that taste is very much a personal thing, but it looks truly hideous to me.

There's no doubting that to make such an item would involve intricate joinery, but would the end result be worth it? The sharks mouth detail across the top freaks me out; but then again, I do have a phobia about sharks.... :lol: 

And to top it all, you're planning on giving it some soft cushions - how can they work with the skeletal design? 

Confused.

Karl


----------



## Digit (8 May 2009)

> Well, Roy, I reckon that the level of entry isn't about how easy or difficult a project is, but rather a reflection of your own skill level and experience.



Sorry Mike I can't agree there mate. If your skill is greater than mine I would suggest that you would find the task easier than I would, so hopefully your seat would be better than mine and I would then go for 'intermediate'.
My problem with an entry at the moment is whether I could complete in time with all the other jobs I've got to try and get through during the summer.
The two little carriage clocks I made took me nearly four months!
But I look forward to seeing everybody else's entries.

Roy.


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Karl":36rm6jsl said:


> .... but it looks truly hideous to me.
> 
> The sharks mouth detail across the top freaks me out.......
> 
> And to top it all, you're planning on giving it some soft cushions - how can they work with the skeletal design?



I genuinely like strong views on design.......so believe me when I say I am really pleased to read this! If people are so-so about this design then I have failed.

There are a couple of valid points there, too.......by the sharks mouth I guess you mean the downward teeth-like protuberances where the ropes (tendons) meet the support timbers? If so, I couldn't agree more. As I drew them I realised that this was a glaringly unresolved detail, and that the chances of me letting it through to the final piece was just about nil. But I was late for work by then...

I am considering having the ropes appear out of organic holes in the way that blood vessels loop in and out of bones.

The main point of submitting a drawing wasn't to attract comment so much as to commit myself to a direction of travel. I have faffed about with 5 or 6 different free-form designs, and this is the most coherent. By posting, I feel that I am forcing myself to run with this idea............but what I am not doing is committing myself to stick to the drawing!!!

The cushions.........

........you are bang on. An obvious point. Once I present my wife with these bits of furniture she'll be angling to make a throw to cover the whole thing, so I better have a good plan for the cushions by then. Maybe just an animal hide thrown over....??

Anyway, thanks for your posting......as I say, design should be subject to strong views.

Mike


----------



## Ironballs (8 May 2009)

Can't you have some animal hide stretched out across as a seat, you could then use real tendon to secure it to the sides. Maybe I'm taking this a bit too literally


----------



## Jake (8 May 2009)

It's fantastic(al).

Wouldn't want it myself, but I love it.

I reckon sandblasting, A+B bleach, and a bit of a rub down will give you a great tactile finish.


----------



## wizer (8 May 2009)

Mike can you give me a hint as to how you're going to do the sand blasting. Just with a compressor attachment?


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

Ironballs":44cub9o3 said:


> Can't you have some animal hide stretched out across as a seat, you could then use real tendon to secure it to the sides. Maybe I'm taking this a bit too literally



Brilliant!


----------



## ByronBlack (8 May 2009)

Antlers would be kind of interested to incorporate - I often seen antler bone on ebay and have wondered how to incorporate it into a project.


----------



## MikeG. (8 May 2009)

wizer":1d1n4jv7 said:


> Mike can you give me a hint as to how you're going to do the sand blasting. Just with a compressor attachment?



I am getting a sand-blasting kit for my compressor, but I have a feeling that I will have to go to a commercial outfit to get it done. The pressure that a domestic compressor can produce just isn't up to what they can do, and of course I don't have the suit of armour that you need to do the job properly.

BB........I'll skip the antler idea, I think!

Jake.....thanks......I like strong views either way. My design and marmite may have something in common!

Mike


----------



## Derek Willis. (9 May 2009)

Mike,
pushing the limits eh!! I hope it all goes well a very good concept.
Derek.


----------



## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

Thanks Derek,

when are you getting your entry in??!! :wink: 

Mike


----------



## OPJ (9 May 2009)

I don't envy you, Mike. :shock: Not so much for the design rather, the thought of spokeshaving all that ash! :? You'd better keep your irons _very_ sharp indeed, otherwise you'll be taking lumps out everywhere!

If you do try to steam-bend any of it though, I don't know of many better timbers than ash.


----------



## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

I think the draw knife will be my primary weapon, Olly, rather than a spokeshave. The major difficulty is that most of the shaping will have to be done after it has all been assembled...........so there will always be stuff in the way. Ho hum.......

I was going to do my melting welsh dresser, but my wife wants the conservatory sorted first. Either way, I get to play with free-forms in ash, and that can be really liberating.

Mike


----------



## DaveL (9 May 2009)

Mike,
Will the design is definitely you! =D> , but I did think does SWMBO know what you are planning?  


Mike Garnham":2zwkvzvk said:


> PS My wife will bury me under the patio when she sees this design.......she is expecting something a bit more Laura Ashley!!!


Obviously not. 8-[


----------



## mahking51 (9 May 2009)

Hi All,
Re sandblasting, I have an accessory that goes on my compressor, takes about a kg of grit.
I put the component to be done in a large cardboard box with sides cut out and away I go! Goggles a must and mask, quite a bit of blow back and the compressor quickly runs out of puff so you have to wait a bit which is irritating.
It does work very well however and as a low cost solution for small bits and pieces it is ideal.
It says you can use ordinary dry sand but don't bother it won't work.
Used grit can be collected sieved and reused a couple of times.
For other stuff I use a local engineering shop with a big cabinet jobbie and get an hour on it for about a fiver at their lunch time!
Much more comfortable and more control.
Mike, give me a PM re drawknives, I have several nice ones :twisted: 
Cheers,
Martin


----------



## ByronBlack (9 May 2009)

Chickening out of using antlers huh? That's ok Mike, I realise you want to play it safe on this one ;-)


----------



## TobyB (9 May 2009)

If the seat bars are suspended by ropes from the arch of the back of the seat, will you have a tensioned rope along the back to prevent lateral sway - knots or pegged through?

How will you be fixing them at the front - solid or flexible?

The "sharks teeth" bit - does that overarch the whole seat - if so it'll need to be higher than is suggested to me by your sketch - or you'll not be able to sit down! Or is it all lying in the same plane as the back of the seat?

I think it's a great idea potentially - but you need to make sure it's actually functional too don't you - I've been really disappointed by interesting new or traditional designs of chair that are really well made out of great materials ... but aren't at all comfortable to sit in. Rope seats, ill-thought-out angles, protruding bars etc. 

Look forward to the WIP reports ...


----------



## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

Toby,

yep, the rope at the back of the seat will be tensioned to prevent sway, but the front edge of the slats will not be fixed at all. They will just be resting on the front rail, maybe in shallow grooves. This will allow for the movement I want when you sit. 

The back will certainly, positively, 100% without doubt, be comfortable! It will be built such that the crossing-over points are set back a bit, making the whole of the back in the same general plane. This piece of furniture is not an exhibition never-to-be-sat-on type..........it will be in everyday use in our conservatory, which for 9 months of the year is the most used room in the house.

So comfort and robustness are the watchwords, and hopefully evoking a bit of curiosity in vistors as an aside.

Mike


----------



## head clansman (9 May 2009)

Hi mike 




> deep breath


 that a bit of an understatement ain't it .

well , what can i say it's certainly not my taste at all .

however it is yours or you wouldn't even be trying to do it , cushions i think is a real no no if you manage to construct it it has to be comfortable enough to sit on as it is cushions or any thing else will distract the eye away from what you achieve and are trying to say about it.

I believe furniture should fit into it's surrounding and become a part of it , I trying to imagine the surrounding room and i failing to do so. having said that mike good luck i hope you succeed looking forward to see some pics on this one . hc


----------



## MikeG. (9 May 2009)

Well Martin,

this certainly has produced polarised views...........!

Who would be a judge? They've got to consider this piece of fantasy against a formal writing slope or two, some bookshelves, some drop leaf tables etc......Fun, fun!!

My family have vetoed the animal skin idea, so some other appropriate rug or throw looks like the way forward.

As for its setting.......a dark green timber conservatory with pale green internal panelling, with rumbled limestone/ marble floor tiles and lots of plants. An obvious place for radical furniture.

Mike


----------



## head clansman (9 May 2009)

hi mike 

well , yes i see the surrounding now , yep i still think nothing else on it just show it in the raw so to speak , don't allow any thing to distract the eye's away from what you produce let it do the talking , let it say, wow or yuk my god what the hell . look forward to seeing the pics as WIP . as for judging this i think it will be love it or hate it , good luck a very bold move. hc


----------



## MikeG. (16 Jun 2009)

Bumping this as requested by mods..........

...........Maybe there will be a seperate Competitions section soon??!!

Mike


----------



## Digit (16 Jun 2009)

Please! And for all those of you out there with baited breath wondering what has happened to the writing slope? :lol: :lol: :lol: 
It's died! Motor bike rebuild first!  
Bikers on this forum will fully understand, won't you guys?

Roy.


----------



## big soft moose (17 Jun 2009)

Digit":3ga200ra said:


> Bikers on this forum will fully understand, won't you guys?
> 
> Roy.



definitely - but what are you doing wasting time on the computer when there are oily bits of engine to play with 

my trojan sheep has not yet got off the drawing board either - and may not as swimbo has a list of other things for me to do first


----------



## Digit (17 Jun 2009)

Bad back BSM, I follow the creed that others have espoused on the forum with back troubles, change jobs regularly. Anyway it's P*****g down here and I doing part of the work in the garden!

Roy.


----------



## MikeG. (18 Jun 2009)

When this:







arrived in the post from Australia, I knew it was time to start this project.

I had a hunt around in my wood store, thinking I had one or two bits of ash......but found I had all this lot:






This should get me a fair way into the project.

I revised my working drawing whilst on the 'phone one day, so this is what I am now working from:






I started by giving all the major structural pieces a letter designation, and picked out my biggest piece of ash for the front rail, which needs to be quite strong. The piece was only 28mm thich, so I planed up a face, cut it in half lengthways, and laminated it. There is going to be a huge amount of lamination in this job, so I had to take an early view on which glue to use. This time, it will be ordinary white woodworkers PVA. I want pale glue lines, obviously, so this rules out the Titebond.........and I can't be doing with the mess of PU in these circumstances. I am going to be using gallons!!!







As soon as I had clamped this lot up (I knew there was a reason I had kept the old B&D Workmate!), I went looking for a catalogue...........I'm going to need lots more clamps!

As a first experiment in steaming, I needed to work out how thick to cut my laminates..............so I borrowed the iron and steamed a thin piece of ash for a minute or two. 







It worked pretty well, but I bent too aggressively in one place...........folded rather than bent!!!......it would have worked completely if I had made a proper former. Later I sketched one out, and I guess that is the next job. That and making the steamer.

Mike


----------



## OPJ (18 Jun 2009)

Good to see this one's under way, Mike.  I don't see a cutting list so, I assume you're working "intuitively", so to speak?

Not sure how long it each lamination will take you but, for what it may be worth to you, Wudcare (available at Axminster) do a fast-setting five-minute PVA, where the strong bond is achieved in ten minutes. They've successfully tested it against creeping and suggest it is ideal for laminations and veneered work... Don't know whether it's available in larger quantities but, it may be worth a look. :wink:


----------



## MikeG. (18 Jun 2009)

Good tip Olly..........thanks for that. If I need to spend a few pounds to get my clamp order up to the free-post level I might give the stuff a try, so long as it dries white or clear. Five minutes is a bit nervewracking, though!!

As for a cutting list...........I don't even know exactly what I am making yet, let alone exactly how I am going to be doing it. So yes, a cutting list might only be possible.........but only after I have finished!

Mike


----------



## Derek Willis. (19 Jun 2009)

Mike,
Laminating can be good fun, that's how I made the legs for my Drum Table, a couple of months ago I was asked to do some bending for a friend, I drilled and inserted broom handle pegs into an auxilliary bench top, steamed with a steam cleaner and drainpipe, worked very well indeed, good luck with the project.
Derek.


----------



## Setch (23 Jun 2009)

Why do you not consider titebond suitable for light glue lines? I've bookmatched several maple or sycamore guitar tops using tightbond, and never had trouble with conspicuous glue lines.

Looking forwards to seeing more progress on this project - I really like your design sketch.


----------



## MikeG. (23 Jun 2009)

Setch,

I only have Titebond 3, which dries to a dark brown. I made the mistake of using it on a sycamore project once........I don't know about Titebond no's 1& 2, presumably one of which is the one you used.

Mike


----------



## PAC1 (23 Jun 2009)

Mike 
Are you sure your titebond III is not for use with dark woods in which case it says "dark" on it. I used ordinary titebond III on Maple and Am Cherry the glue line is not an issue.


----------



## OPJ (23 Jun 2009)

Titebond *II* is the dark wood glue. I bought some a few years ago and have never gotten around to actually using it! 

Titebond also do an Extend Wood Glue, which is claimed to be ideal for laminations... :wink: There's also a Veneer Glue now although, that doesn't appear to be available from Axminster.


----------



## MikeG. (23 Jun 2009)

I'll have a look in the shed this evening and resolve this one..............I'm doubting myself now!

Suffice to say, of the 4 glues available to me I didn't fancy PU.............just too messy and horrible in the panic of trying to glue-up and clamp timber that is all the time trying to unbend itself. I wasn't going to use my Titebond, whichever on, because of the dark glue line. Whateveritscalled-amite is a faff to mix...............so PVA and a big brush was my choice. 

Mike


----------



## Ironballs (23 Jun 2009)

I've used Titebond 1 on the guitar, dries to a yellowy colour, couldn't see a glue line on the maple top though. One thing to bear in mind about T-bond 1 is that it's recommended for instruments as it doesn't creep and allow movement which T-bond 3 does, making 3 more suitable for furniture where a little flexibility is desired


----------



## mickthetree (30 Jun 2009)

Hi Mike

I was at the Salvo fair in Knebworth this wknd just gone, saw this and instantly thought of your project. Its a teak root I think, the guy didnt seem to know much about it.

Maybe good for some inspiration.


----------



## kityuser (30 Jun 2009)

this reminds me of something from Pitch black or aliens.


Steve


----------



## MikeG. (30 Jun 2009)

Isn't that a stunning object?!! I wonder why it grew cylindrically like that, rather than spreading as a normal root does?

The more I look at it, the more it looks like a Strangler Fig that grew around a tree trunk.......in the same sort of way as ivy does.......The difference is that the strangler fig is self-supporting once the host tree has died.

At the moment, with my laminations coming unglued, I'm thinking I might be best off growing my furniture rather than making it!!!

Mike


----------

