# Black Walnut finish to retain Mat appearance



## Philw (1 Jul 2021)

Hi guys, 

I am new to woodworking in its entirety, but following complete renovation of my first home this past year, and a garage as prime workshop potential, I am keen to develop this into a hobby. 

I have recently purchased 13, 2.4m x 50mm x various widths of 130-200mm, rough sawn black American walnut for a reasonable £600, and plan on building a bed frame, dining table, and possibly if enough left, a floating desk for my study. Simple enough items I should think, for the most part planning on biscuit jointing the boards together and undecided for the bed frame (another thread for another question maybe), however I am concerned about finishing the tables and loosing its natural mat appeal that I just love. 

Does anyone have any recommendations for proper finishing practice for its use as a kitchen/dining/heavy family use table? 

To put into context I have recently installed a black walnut bathroom worktop and its a mild inconvenience having to wipe up every splash of water after I wash my hands or take a shower. 

Appreciate any advise given!


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## recipio (1 Jul 2021)

Matt polyurethane should give you what you want. It's well worth buying a dedicated varnish brush from a good paint shop as it makes all the difference.
My experience with black walnut is that it starts out with that lovely purple/charcoal colour but after a few years turns into a muddy brown. The Yanks are well aware of this and use all kinds of dyes and gel stains to counter this but if anybody can suggest products available over here I'd love to know.


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## sploo (1 Jul 2021)

Osmo Wood Protector (Wood Protector - Osmo UK) followed by Top Oil (TopOil - Osmo UK) is a good finish for surfaces that'll be exposed to water and regular use.

I believe that Black Walnut tends to lighten over time in the presence of UV light; so whether a UV resistant finish is preferable is up to you.

EDIT: This post (How to darken American black walnut (and get a good sheen)?) may be of interest too; though I never actually went ahead with the walnut kitchen.


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## el_Pedr0 (1 Jul 2021)

The cabinet maker that made our kitchen swears by timbertect by 3c or conservation chemicals. We've got a walnut breakfast bar which he coated in the stuff (type: interior, natural finish /mid sheen) It's pretty matt but not dull like untreated wood. The first photo below is taken at an angle to maximise the extent of any sheen.







Water sits on top but I'm not prepared to test how long I can leave it for.


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## Philw (1 Jul 2021)

recipio said:


> Matt polyurethane should give you what you want. It's well worth buying a dedicated varnish brush from a good paint shop as it makes all the difference.
> My experience with black walnut is that it starts out with that lovely purple/charcoal colour but after a few years turns into a muddy brown. The Yanks are well aware of this and use all kinds of dyes and gel stains to counter this but if anybody can suggest products available over here I'd love to know.


Very disappointing news. I have seen old second hand BAW furniture look incredibly dark in photos and had wondered that this could be the case. 
Hopefully someone has a method to retain its natural characteristics in the long term.



sploo said:


> Osmo Wood Protector (Wood Protector - Osmo UK) followed by Top Oil (TopOil - Osmo UK) is a good finish for surfaces that'll be exposed to water and regular use.
> 
> I believe that Black Walnut tends to lighten over time in the presence of UV light; so whether a UV resistant finish is preferable is up to you.
> 
> EDIT: This post (How to darken American black walnut (and get a good sheen)?) may be of interest too; though I never actually went ahead with the walnut kitchen.



Very interesting thread. Looking through the sample pieces without their finishes I favoured the bare BAW with either 
1 coat of BLO + 3 coats of DO
3 coats of FO
1 coat of WP + 3 coats of TO 

My bathroom worktop currently has three layers of DO. Would the Osmo Wood Protector followed by Top Oil take to the oiled surface? 

I do not think I would be against it turning lighter, so long as it retains its prominent grain, I just do not wish it to darken to a period mahogany-esque. 



el_Pedr0 said:


> The cabinet maker that made our kitchen swears by timbertect by 3c or conservation chemicals. We've got a walnut breakfast bar which he coated in the stuff (type: interior, natural finish /mid sheen) It's pretty matt but not dull like untreated wood. The first photo below is taken at an angle to maximise the extent of any sheen.
> Water sits on top but I'm not prepared to test how long I can leave it for.



I don't think I could expect a truly mat finish unless left bare, so that looks acceptable!


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## el_Pedr0 (1 Jul 2021)

The cabinet at the end of our kitchen is adjacent to south facing, full height 5m wide glass doors. It gets a fair amount of sun. This is mdf with walnut veneer. In the picture below I've opened a door, which gets a lot of sun, so that you can see it against the cabinet side which is sheltered.

Interestingly, the difference is more pronounced in the photo than in reality.
But what the photo fails to show is the distinctly orange hue of the sun bleached door. I do not know if this was treated with timbertect, but suspect it would have been.
I guess this is after about 2 years


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## Philw (1 Jul 2021)

el_Pedr0 said:


> The cabinet at the end of our kitchen is adjacent to south facing, full height 5m wide glass doors. It gets a fair amount of sun. This is mdf with walnut veneer. In the picture below I've opened a door, which gets a lot of sun, so that you can see it against the cabinet side which is sheltered.
> 
> Interestingly, the difference is more pronounced in the photo than in reality.
> But what the photo fails to show is the distinctly orange hue of the sun bleached door. I do not know if this was treated with timbertect, but suspect it would have been.
> I guess this is after about 2 years


This is helpful, thankyou! 
Stupid question ahead; my proposed table is going to be for the most part out of any direct sunlight, and will only get sun on that side of the house for a couple of hours each evening. I guess I will expect this but it should take far longer?


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## el_Pedr0 (1 Jul 2021)

I suspect so. I was a bit alarmed when the cabinet started fading in that first year so phoned the maker and he casually said there's no point trying to fight it and that it would settle down - ie it wouldn't just keep fading at the same rate. All the same I think I'd be tempted to research uv protection if doing it again. Unfortunately I know for exterior timber uv treatment is only temporary. Stuff like osmo 420 needs to be reapplied regularly, which is a non starter for me when it comes to kitchen cabinets. Pigmented stuff offers far better uv but I suspect like me you'd baulk at staining your walnut.

My breakfast bar is only a year old, is in the same bright kitchen but out of direct sunlight and is solid walnut vs veneer. I haven't noticed any change in colour. So if it's changed, it's done so far more subtly than the cabinet.

Not sure any of the following pics add anything, but though I'd try and capture the difference between breakfast bar and cabinet using the back of a bar stool as a reference (not that cabinet and bar would have been the same to start with anyway).


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## Philw (1 Jul 2021)

el_Pedr0 said:


> I suspect so. I was a bit alarmed when the cabinet started fading in that first year so phoned the maker and he casually said there's no point trying to fight it and that it would settle down - ie it wouldn't just keep fading at the same rate. All the same I think I'd be tempted to research uv protection if doing it again. Unfortunately I know for exterior timber uv treatment is only temporary. Stuff like osmo 420 needs to be reapplied regularly, which is a non starter for me when it comes to kitchen cabinets. Pigmented stuff offers far better uv but I suspect like me you'd baulk at staining your walnut.
> 
> My breakfast bar is only a year old, is in the same bright kitchen but out of direct sunlight and is solid walnut vs veneer. I haven't noticed any change in colour. So if it's changed, it's done so far more subtly than the cabinet.
> 
> Not sure any of the following pics add anything, but though I'd try and capture the difference between breakfast bar and cabinet using the back of a bar stool as a reference (not that cabinet and bar would have been the same to start with anyway).



Its certainly positive to hear that a thicker, solid wood is more resistant to fading. Could it be due to the thin veneer? Or is it simply the alternate finish you mentioned earlier.


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## sploo (1 Jul 2021)

Philw said:


> My bathroom worktop currently has three layers of DO. Would the Osmo Wood Protector followed by Top Oil take to the oiled surface?


Take, as in put the Wood Protector over the DO? I suspect that wouldn't work. The Wood Protector is very thin and is designed to soak into the wood.


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## el_Pedr0 (1 Jul 2021)

Philw said:


> Its certainly positive to hear that a thicker, solid wood is more resistant to fading. Could it be due to the thin veneer? Or is it simply the alternate finish you mentioned earlier.



No, no. I suspect it's more likely due to the solid breakfast bar not being in direct sunlight. Although I can't be sure because there are a number of other variables. 

And I know for sure that the breakfast bar has been treated with timbertect, but my hunch is that the cabinet had the same treatment.


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## marcros (1 Jul 2021)

I would look at Rubio monocoat. I have used it on a few timber types, although not walnut. I have seen it used on YouTube on walnut though, including tables. 

When I have used it, it is a simple to use and tough, Matt finish.


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## Philw (1 Jul 2021)

el_Pedr0 said:


> No, no. I suspect it's more likely due to the solid breakfast bar not being in direct sunlight. Although I can't be sure because there are a number of other variables.
> 
> And I know for sure that the breakfast bar has been treated with timbertect, but my hunch is that the cabinet had the same treatment.


It seemed an illogical comment as I wrote it. My house is south east facing so should get minimal sun on the tabletop.


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## danst96 (2 Jul 2021)

I use Osmo clear matt oil, trying to remember the exact number but it gives a lovely matte finish and looks class


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## el_Pedr0 (2 Jul 2021)

@danst96 maybe this one?


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## Philw (2 Jul 2021)

danst96 said:


> I use Osmo clear matt oil, trying to remember the exact number but it gives a lovely matte finish and looks class


Thats what Im talking about. How does it handle water rings and UV protection seems to be a big requirement with BAW? 



sploo said:


> Osmo Wood Protector (Wood Protector - Osmo UK) followed by Top Oil (TopOil - Osmo UK) is a good finish for surfaces that'll be exposed to water and regular use.


I am still very tempted by this combo, being both specific liquid protection products. What could I couple with these for added UV protection? 
Has anyone a sample with these by any chance? Dont want to drop £50 on them to completely change the natural matt look.


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## danst96 (2 Jul 2021)

el_Pedr0 said:


> @danst96 maybe this one?
> View attachment 113129


It was 3062 matte hard wax oil.



Philw said:


> Thats what Im talking about. How does it handle water rings and UV protection seems to be a big requirement with BAW?



I cannot personally vouch for either yet as the two nightstands are in storage waiting for me to get a house to put them in  however I did virtually the same post as you a while ago and someone else on here recommended it and said it lasts and handles well.

One thing I'd probably say though, as with basically any solid wood furniture, it's advisable to use a coaster or such like with cups and drinks because even with a very durable finish it will eventually mark the wood.

Also to add, while polyurethane is more durable than oil, it is not necessarily going to stop a table from marking over time. The benefit of oil over polyurethane in the application of a dining table, while it may not last as long as poly, oil is easier to sand down and refinish nicely and clean up. Either finish you use will need refinishing at some point in the future so this is a consideration worth bearing in mind.


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## Fergie 307 (2 Jul 2021)

I have used specialist anti UV Yacht varnish on car dashboards and door caps, very good UV protection. Only drawback is it gives a glass like smooth shiny finish, ideal for a dash but not what you want. Might be worth seeing if they do it in a matt version. Can't remember the make, will have to try and dig out the tin, but I dare say any chandlers will be able to supply similar. Very expensive and takes forever to cure, but very good.


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## JoshD (2 Jul 2021)

I use osmo polyx. It seems to work pretty well if you sand to say 240 grit and then use an abrasive pad (I use mirka mirlon 360 which is like scotch brite) to work the polyx well into the grain; you then use plenty of clean rags to take off as much as possible, leaving a really lovely deep and reasonably tough finish after about 3 coats. I mostly use the satin finish (see photo) which is matt enough for me, but they have a matt/raw finish as well particularly for light wood (doesn't go quite as yellow as the satin finish). Polyx doesn't block uv and walnut tends to lighten up and become more orange with age/uv.


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## Hornbeam (2 Jul 2021)

I generally use danish oil but also Osmo Poly XX. One big advantage over varnishes is that I find it much easier to repair of if I have missed something during final sanding you can go back and redo that small area


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## Philw (8 Jul 2021)

Thanks for all the help guys. I think I will go with the osmo water repellant mix Sploo recommended for the dining table.
However I recently wasted some money on some walnut side tables from John Lewis and want to protect them from UV as in their position they will sit in the sun all day. Any specific recommendations please?


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## sploo (8 Jul 2021)

A table cloth?

(sorry, I couldn't resist )


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## JonOuk (9 Jul 2021)

I’m assuming it’s properly seasoned? If not you’ll run into issues (shrinkage/movement/etc) down the line, if it hasn’t been…


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## Philw (28 Sep 2021)

sploo said:


> Osmo Wood Protector (Wood Protector - Osmo UK) followed by Top Oil (TopOil - Osmo UK) is a good finish for surfaces that'll be exposed to water and regular use.
> 
> I believe that Black Walnut tends to lighten over time in the presence of UV light; so whether a UV resistant finish is preferable is up to you.
> 
> EDIT: This post (How to darken American black walnut (and get a good sheen)?) may be of interest too; though I never actually went ahead with the walnut kitchen.



Hi @sploo , can you advise how you go about patching/ repairing /sanding back areas with the osmo wood protector and top oil combo? Finally getting around to buildingthe table and purchasing this and wondering.
Many thanks in advance!


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## sploo (28 Sep 2021)

Philw said:


> Hi @sploo , can you advise how you go about patching/ repairing /sanding back areas with the osmo wood protector and top oil combo? Finally getting around to buildingthe table and purchasing this and wondering.
> Many thanks in advance!


I have done that a few times around our kitchen sink area (solid oak worktop, with that Osmo combo). If damage is minor, I find a quick light sand or scrape with a card scraper is fine, and extra coats of Top Oil blend fine with existing areas.

I recently modified part of the worktop with a new splashback, and scraped off all the coating in that area. Wood Protector followed by Top Oil, and done; looks the same as the existing areas.

Seems to be quite forgiving when it comes to maintenance basically


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