# 12V solar workshop power, anyone?



## dannyr (18 Dec 2020)

Many solar panels have a 12V output -- thinking of powering lighting, recharging battery packs and sound system in shed and greenhouse at end of small garden - any advice?

I'm looking at one (or more) largeish 12V panel charging a lead-acid car battery and car-type lighter sockets as all are readily available. If I had spare power, I'd run a line to the 'office' in the house for charging laptop etc. Shed roof a flat slope in a good place for sun.

(I'd like to have serious solar power but house roof is pointing wrong way or diff to access and the feed-in electrics get serious). 

If it all worked well then I'd do same in allotment. 
("two sheds" for those who get the reference)


----------



## paulrbarnard (18 Dec 2020)

My workshop used to only have solar and wind power. I got mains in when I chopped an end off the workshop to use as a home office. 

I have two 100 watt solar panels and a 300 watt turbine. I use a CTEK DC to DC charger which has input for solar and have a 110AHr AGM battery. This still runs all my lights and I have a 2000watt inverter that I used for the odd mains powered tool (router). All my lighting is 12V LED strips with dimmers. 

With the combination of solar and wind I didn’t have any no power situations, unless I over used the inverter.


----------



## PerryGunn (18 Dec 2020)

dannyr said:


> If it all worked well then I'd do same in allotment.
> ("two sheds" for those who get the reference)


Are you the real Arthur Jackson then...?


----------



## dannyr (18 Dec 2020)

thanks - I was thinking of using 1 or 2 100W panels and a car lead acid - if I started with one do I need the DC to DC or can I just have in series fuse protection? does the battery risk doing damage to the panel? (a trial smaller set up with 2 little panels and a used car battery - the controller I got didn't seem to work so I just common wired, not even fused (no combustibles nearby) and the set up worked, but not much power reserve).

the real Arthur


----------



## Jameshow (18 Dec 2020)

If your deep cycling the battery you want a leisure battery or AGM batteries not car batteries. 

Cheers James


----------



## dannyr (18 Dec 2020)

Thanks James - I've heard this, but I don't want to drive machines directly, just recharge their powerpacks slowly, and light the shed, nor do heating except for maybe a low power plant-propogater so I don't foresee deep cycling like AGMs developed for the military and now used mostly on big high-compression-engined cars for auto stop-start.

At present it seems like these are quite a lot more expensive. I won't get stranded miles down the road or be out at sea, I'll just go and get a new battery for my car and put the old one, if not too used, to work in the shed.

Am I missing something?


----------



## paulrbarnard (18 Dec 2020)

dannyr said:


> Thanks James - I've heard this, but I don't want to drive machines directly, just recharge their powerpacks slowly, and light the shed, nor do heating except for maybe a low power plant-propogater so I don't foresee deep cycling like AGMs developed for the military and now used mostly on big high-compression-engined cars for auto stop-start.
> 
> At present it seems like these are quite a lot more expensive. I won't get stranded miles down the road or be out at sea, I'll just go and get a new battery for my car and put the old one, if not too used, to work in the shed.
> 
> Am I missing something?



That will work but you will be wasting a lot of the energy from the cells. Also remember a standard car battery is designed to dump a lot of energy quickly for starting. With a constant low drain it will not be working optimally. Charging will also be problematic and you will be unlikely to get full charge into the battery. 
A charge controller designed for the type of battery you have, as well as having the right type of battery will make a surprising difference to the run time you have. As much as double in fact. I’ve used AGM for a few years now and it is working well for me. I get about 75% stated capacity. Li Pb is the optimal chemistry for off grid solutions today. It’s all a bit spends though. 

Connecting 200W panel direct to a >50AHr lead acid battery will get you started though.


----------



## Dabop (19 Dec 2020)

I would personally get a cheaper MPPT controller and series the panels you get 20-30% more power per day than an old PWM controller and they aren't expensive (about $40Au is what I paid for my 60A one which would be overkill on 200w lol-it handles up to 750w on 12v)
Definitely get a deep cycle, doesn't have to be an AGM, a flooded leadacid will do just fine and a lot cheaper than an AGM (check out offroaders/campers or marine suppliers) you can use an car battery, but they really will fail fairly quickly if you use it much at all- as mentioned they are designed for a big current dump and then immediate recharge

I used a similar setup for nearly a year to run my 12v waterpump to my caravan while building the new place- it worked ok, but the battery (which wasn't that good to begin with true) was pretty much cactus at the end


----------



## dannyr (19 Dec 2020)

thank you for the helpful replies, my friends
any further input welcome - won't be putting things together for a little while yet


----------



## Horsee1 (19 Dec 2020)

Check out/sign up to mailing list from bimble solar.

They quite often have used batteries/panels for sale and are a useful resource for installation tips.






Bimble Solar


Affordable Solar Panels and Solar Equipment in the UK and delivered Worldwide. Solar panels - From 20W to 490W, Off Grid and On Grid Packages. MPPT Charge Controllers, Inverters, Batteries and all accessories.




www.bimblesolar.com


----------



## dannyr (19 Dec 2020)

thanks -- Looked at the Bimble site - panels seem cheaper than I thought (or ebay) but batteries and controllers seem expensive+


----------



## NewbieRaf (20 Dec 2020)

My shop/garage has no power, so I looked into having one solar panel but really didn’t understand or want to bother with all the technicalities. I found the power oak or Bluetti AC50S which I got lucky and got it cheap on Kickstarter - - it’s now on amazon link below. The AC50S has its own integrated MPTT controller, UK plug sockets and all that I needed to hook up some lights. I have to say it’s Excellent. I got a renogy 100v panel 70 quid and hooked it up which works great. Although it’s position is not ideal.

I’ve been meaning to make a quick vid of my setup as I’ve had a couple of questions about it. I’ll try to get it done today.


----------



## Horsee1 (20 Dec 2020)

dannyr said:


> thanks -- Looked at the Bimble site - panels seem cheaper than I thought (or ebay) but batteries and controllers seem expensive+


I think they only sell products they can get behind.

I have a Narrowboat that I used to live on, now it’s on and off but that’s another story.
First set up we had was two 290w panels through Bimble and a cheap mppt charge controller from eBay. It was hard to know what was going on and we ran the batteries flat a few times.
Upgraded to a Victron charge controller and also bought a battery monitor. The charge controller failed and the batteries were again run flat numerous times.
They eventually wouldn’t hold any charge and we only had power when the sun was out.

2nd time around on a different boat. 2 slightly bigger panels, an expensive outback charge controller and a lot more attention paid to the battery monitor. It’s been 5 years or more now and everything is good.
I have a 1500w inverter and run routers and a plunge saw through it in the summer with no need for any additional power source.

I don’t really know much about it but have the above experience. As people have pointed out further up the thread you will need deep cycle batteries as opposed to a plain old starter battery if you want them to be any good at storing the energy.
I believe that buy cheap buy twice always applies, if you got a half decent panel and charge controller, rig it up to any old battery that you happen to have, it should do you well in the daylight hours and you have the luxury of being able to go back to the house when the lights go out on you.

I imagine a half decent charger controller will hold some value so if you don’t keep the system you could always sell it on later?
Good luck with it all anyway!


----------



## NewbieRaf (20 Dec 2020)

Here goes nothing, my first ever attempt at a video on youtube (link below), please don't judge me haha. I have newfound respect to @petermillard and the like as they make it seem so easy. I also realise why channel owners have a script as it was hard not hesitating in speech. 

Anyways, I hope you find it useful as it's about how I get lights through solar using the AC50S power station. Please feel free to let me know your thoughts, good, bad and the ugly. haha




Thanks


----------



## Jameshow (20 Dec 2020)

How long would a 1/2 router last on that power pack???!! 

At least it charges a I phone!!! 

Do these YouTube reviewers ever make anything??? 

Cheers James


----------



## NewbieRaf (20 Dec 2020)

About 4 days but I configure the router so it picks up the SSID as soon as power is on and it boots up.

Personally I’m not aiming to make anything from the channel. I’m still new to woodworking but have 20 years experience in IT so figured I would help people by putting the two together as it were. If people want to see more, I’m more than happy to carry on


----------



## petermillard (20 Dec 2020)

Very good Raf. First videos are always your worst videos - you only get better by doing more! One small suggestion; introduce the product by telling people what it is - I had to google "bluetti A50s" to find out that yes, it is an all-in-one solar generator/backup battery aka 'power station' for outdoor or off-grid use, and while I was searching that google kindly recommended some YouTube videos on the subject that weren't yours...

Oh, and I think @Jameshow was probably talking about a/ making something out of wood, and b/ a 1/2" router eg Trend T11, not the WiFi rooter (sic) 

Always happy to give new YouTubers a few pointers, message me if I can help at all.  P


----------



## NewbieRaf (20 Dec 2020)

Thank you so much @petermillard noted and will do. Right after publishing there were like a million things I thought of that I could have done better. Hopefully will get those done in the next one if people want to see more.


----------



## NewbieRaf (20 Dec 2020)

Ah yes I just realised 1/2 router that @Jameshow was referring to. Doh, silly me

Yep, this won’t run power tools, or it will just not for very long. The AC200 would absolutely run power tools but it’s expensive


----------



## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

12v panels are actually more expensive than 48v. Just supply and demand - people put 48v on rooves and solar farms etc. but 12v are pretty much reserved for small camper setups.

If you want 12v out, then an MPPT charge controller will handle 48v panels, and charge a 12v battery.

If you want to get into it, then start eyeing up every old laptop battery (etc) that you see as a potential 18650 source!


----------



## dannyr (20 Dec 2020)

start eyeing up every old laptop battery (etc) that you see as a potential 18650 source!
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, what is a 18650 ?

I know that those you mention usually have AA/AAA sized cells within is that what you mean - I expect about 1.2V - and I do have old laptop etc batteries - would you rig these in parallel/series to get a serious battery source? or some from a wrecked EV scooter or bicycle?

soon I suppose when I say a used car battery, it'll be from an electric vehicle's motive power - couple of those could be serious power. -


----------



## gmgmgm (21 Dec 2020)

18650 (18mm dia x 65mm long) is the bigger battery size which is very common for LiIon. Once you see a few of them, you'll suddenly start seeing them everywhere - e.g. most laptop battery packs are sized around three or four of them, and lots of torches now use them.

Dannyr, I've used solar panels for years, including campervans and grid-tied. For a workshop, it would be 100x easier to just run a power cable to the end of the garden, if that's possible. Even 100m of armoured cable is good value, and you'll always have the power you need. Micro-managing solar power can be a lot of effort, and when you really need it (the winter), the amount of power a solar panel can give out over a day is incredibly small. (Think well under 10% of a summer day).


----------



## Bigbadmarky (21 Dec 2020)

I have a 60W solar panel in to an MPPT charger which charges up a 80Ah battery. I run my lights and a little radio off it and haven't really had any major issues. I had a cheap and cheerful charge controller at first but my battery was slowly dying even during the summer. I spent a bit more money on an MPPT controller and haven't had any problems since. I've added a pic of my charge controller as I can't remember the make etc.

There are lots of websites out there which can teach you bits and bobs (and invariably sell you stuff) but its all really confusing. The most useful stuff is on caravan and campervan forums. They run all sorts of 12v systems. 

I've recently bought an inverter to wire in to my bandsaw (its only a 150W saw) but I've not got round to doing it just yet.


----------

