# Kithchen cabinet doors with faceframe



## mpooley (12 Mar 2009)

Hi
I am just starting my new kitchen build and have ordered prebuilt cabinets which i want to fit a face frame to.

Normally you would fit the doors into the frame using old fashioned hinges but i want to get the benefits of the modern kitchen hinges so i am thinking I can pack out the side of the cabinets flush to the face frame (hinge side only)
and that should work ok? 

has anyone done this? any problems i should know about ?

thanks

Mike


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## SketchUp Guru (12 Mar 2009)

Mike, it seems like a good idea to me. To make it simple a single piece of wood glued inside the face frame to pack it out would be good and look better. You'll need to notch any shelves so they don't conflict with the packing.

BTW, Tonight?


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## jasonB (12 Mar 2009)

Far easier and neater to buy the right base plates to give the required standoff. Whats the overhang of the faceframe going to be and I'll suggest the right ones

If I recall this one had both 9mm & 18mm overhangs

Jason


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## mpooley (12 Mar 2009)

jasonB":1ksbltqs said:


> Far easier and neater to buy the right base plates to give the required standoff. Whats the overhang of the faceframe going to be and I'll suggest the right ones
> 
> If I recall this one had both 9mm & 18mm overhangs
> 
> Jason



Jason 9mm would probably be enough

nice bathroom!

Mike


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## Geno (24 Mar 2009)

I'm planning a kitchen build at some stage this year and its partly based on a kitchen I fitted for my sister in the states. Face frame attached to cabinets with overlay doors. Most american kitchens use face frames and then have a mix of inframe or overlay doors. With the overlay doors they use an adjustable hinge (similar to typcial kitchen door hinges here) that attach to the stile on the face frame. 

I did take a pic the last time out so I'll try and dig it out.
I had also considered sizing my frame stiles, along with a small gap between the cabinet sides, so that the edge of the frame stile aligned itself with the inside cabinet face and therefore didn't need a packer.

Now that might sound nuts but at the minute it seems to be working in my head!!  I guess no one has told me I'm nuts yet!! So feel free!!  

Cheers


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## jasonB (24 Mar 2009)

Mike I must have missed your 9mm reply

You can do it very easily with Blum type hinges. You need a 18mm mounting plate and duel hinges which combined set the door in the correct distance from the carcase to clear the faceframe.

http://www.woodfit.com/product_info.php ... +Screw+Fix

Jason


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## xy mosian (24 Mar 2009)

In a previous life I fitted, and removed, many a kitchen. Some with face framing. Now it sounds obvious, although not to some major manufacturers, and I have no intent of insulting if you have already thought of this. But please make the lower rail of the frame flush or preferably sub-flush with the bottom of the carcass. It is very, very difficult to successfully clean out a kitchen cupboard when there is an effective lip at the front of the carcass bottom. Another advantage is that this could form a very useful door stop. Again many apologies if this had already occurred to you.


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## matt (24 Mar 2009)

mikepooley":1do8ysxf said:


> ...but i want to get the benefits of the modern kitchen hinges.



What are the benefits of modern hinges (with a face frame)? I love the simplicity and appearance of butt hinges so I am genuinely intrigued.


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## jasonB (24 Mar 2009)

No need for catches
Soft close it you want it
Adjustability
Better fixing if using MDF for doors

But a nice pair of good quality Butts looks good. A simple jig and router sould get them all set the same, long screws hold in MDF And good quality catches can be sourced. Plus you get 180degree opening

JAson


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## mpooley (24 Mar 2009)

Geno":1qze1kq7 said:


> I'm planning a kitchen build at some stage this year and its partly based on a kitchen I fitted for my sister in the states. Face frame attached to cabinets with overlay doors. Most american kitchens use face frames and then have a mix of inframe or overlay doors. With the overlay doors they use an adjustable hinge (similar to typcial kitchen door hinges here) that attach to the stile on the face frame.
> 
> I did take a pic the last time out so I'll try and dig it out.
> I had also considered sizing my frame stiles, along with a small gap between the cabinet sides, so that the edge of the frame stile aligned itself with the inside cabinet face and therefore didn't need a packer.
> ...



your nuts 

i have been thinking the same thing


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## mpooley (24 Mar 2009)

xy mosian":3spos9dj said:


> In a previous life I fitted, and removed, many a kitchen. Some with face framing. Now it sounds obvious, although not to some major manufacturers, and I have no intent of insulting if you have already thought of this. But please make the lower rail of the frame flush or preferably sub-flush with the bottom of the carcass. It is very, very difficult to successfully clean out a kitchen cupboard when there is an effective lip at the front of the carcass bottom. Another advantage is that this could form a very useful door stop. Again many apologies if this had already occurred to you.


 
yes it had but no apologies necessary  

i could have easily missed it.


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## mpooley (24 Mar 2009)

Thanks for the link Jason I will look into that


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## mpooley (24 Mar 2009)

Matt

I agree with wot Jason said lol

Plus I hate fitting catches - fiddly little things


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## Geno (24 Mar 2009)

Aye ur some craic! Sure I knew I was nuts anyway!  

saw an article in a recent issue of fine home building about simple cabinets. face frame constructed using kreg pocket hole kit, only instead of one fastening hole at each fastening location, he made two, the second allowing readjustment if first wasn't perfect.

Anyway back to aligning frame and carcass, 2*18mm + 18mm packer could give u a frame stile of 54mm, which wouldn't look too bad I don't think! ok ur right! Nuts!!


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## mpooley (24 Mar 2009)

Geno":38mlaxcz said:


> Aye ur some craic! Sure I knew I was nuts anyway!
> 
> saw an article in a recent issue of fine home building about simple cabinets. face frame constructed using kreg pocket hole kit, only instead of one fastening hole at each fastening location, he made two, the second allowing readjustment if first wasn't perfect.
> 
> Anyway back to aligning frame and carcass, 2*18mm + 18mm packer could give u a frame stile of 54mm, which wouldn't look too bad I don't think! ok ur right! Nuts!!



I agree it would look very good i think  if i have the space ?

will double check but i think i do  

Oh can you explain how the second hole would allow adjustment - i cant see it?

Mike


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## Geno (24 Mar 2009)

I know, you'll lose some space but as u say, depends on whether ur tight for space or not.

will scan in the pics tomorrow to show the detail of the second set of holes. They were done simply to allow adjustment without having to dismantle attached face frame to redo another pocket hole mid construction. Then again, u could make sure u do it right first time out!  
It was slightly off topic but thought I'd mention it cos of all the talk of face frames! :?


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## jasonB (25 Mar 2009)

I'm not a fan of having a separate faceframe for each carcase which you tend to see a lot on the readymade FF kitchens.

I prefer to make one FF for a run of carcases that way you get a 36mm frame if using 18mm carcase material. This also allows you to use standard size wirework & draws as the "opening" is not reduced

Jason


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## mpooley (25 Mar 2009)

jasonB":1e2kd7ho said:


> I'm not a fan of having a separate faceframe for each carcase which you tend to see a lot on the readymade FF kitchens.
> 
> I prefer to make one FF for a run of carcases that way you get a 36mm frame if using 18mm carcase material. This also allows you to use standard size wirework & draws as the "opening" is not reduced
> 
> Jason




indeed i am going to do that too!  

I am going to use pocket holes to make the frames how do you fix them to the cabinet?


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## matt (25 Mar 2009)

mikepooley":15yqhc1w said:


> I am going to use pocket holes to make the frames how do you fix them to the cabinet?



I used pocket holes to join the face frame to the carcass on my most recent. Worked fine, especially as I don't have enough clamps for the size of this one.


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## jasonB (25 Mar 2009)

I usually use biscuits with the odd pocket hole screw in from the base or top of the carcase as neither will show.

Jason


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## Geno (26 Mar 2009)

heres part of the article from issue 200 of fine homebuilding about site built cabinets - this bit illustrated the addition of a second pocket hole so that if realignment of the faceframe was required then you already had the hole done.


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## mpooley (29 Mar 2009)

Yes thanks its obvious when you see it


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