# So much for discouraging incandescent light bulbs



## CHJ (2 Aug 2014)

Just received a marketing mail promoting these.






Funnily enough I was in a restaurant mid week and spotted this type of bulb in the over table lighting fittings and wondered why no low energy use.

Guess mood ambiance scores over economy when business model rules.


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## ColeyS1 (2 Aug 2014)

Don't suppose you've got any more info ? That middle bulb looks just what im after ! I've got a few of those bulbs and only use them occasionally- I like the look of them


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## RogerP (2 Aug 2014)

http://www.cromptonlamps.com/newsDetails.asp?news=35


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## CHJ (2 Aug 2014)

http://us8.campaign-archive1.com/?u=9e1 ... 66f88427a0


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## Dangermouse. (2 Aug 2014)

low energy bulbs are hideous and don't fit into our old Victorian house at all.


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## ColeyS1 (2 Aug 2014)

Much appreciated guys  bit more variation then the ones I've been using.


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## RobinBHM (2 Aug 2014)

I think new lighting designs need to be created for low energy bulbs. Cfl and led bulbs look hideous in traditional shades where the light is at all exposed. I have a floor standing lamp which has papershades and 3no 1.5 watt led bulbs give a similar look to dimmed incandescent 25 watt bulbs.

What I really hate is pubs or restaurants that have just replaced bulbs with cfl's and you can the top sticking out. Since they cant be dimmed they ruin any ambience. Hotel rooms are the same.


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## Myfordman (3 Aug 2014)

TLC are stocking those bulbs.


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## mailee (4 Aug 2014)

Afraid I always use the old incandescent bulbs in my home still as I think the low energy ones are rubbish! They just don't give out enough light especially for reading. :evil:


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

CFL, Halogen and LED bulbs come in a range of sizes and brightnesses and warmths.

You should always be able to find what you need. There are also dimmable LED bulbs.

Here is a hundred watt (equivalent) warm white (2800k) LED. This ought to be the same as 100w incandescent, with about 1/8th the power, and 25,000 hours life.

http://www.ledbulbs.co.uk/products/Trad ... 1349433228


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## novocaine (4 Aug 2014)

wow, a whole thread on lights without anyone pointing out they aren't called bulbs. 

bulbs are things you plant in the ground when you want daffodils.

the things you are taking about are called lamps.

feel better now. the pedant inside me has left. think I'll go try and grow a light tree in the garden.  

note: please read the above with your tongue planted firmly in your cheek.


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## Sheffield Tony (4 Aug 2014)

Since we have turned towards the pedantic. I think these low energy lamps are rubbish too. A study by the US department for energy found that most of the LED lamps overstated their output, sometimes by more than a factor of 2. The equivalent wattages are clearly not equivalent when you try to read by their light, and the failure rates are often optimistic - sometimes giving life expectancies greater than that of the component parts used.

The colour rendering is often awful too. They may be the colour temperature stated, but the light does not have a black body spectrum, so although the light itself may look white, reflected light won't look the same as under daylight - moral of the story - check your paint colour choice at night as well as in daylight before painting a whole room.

These things are just an eco placebo. Make people feel like they are doing their bit without having to make any real compromises. Saving energy on lighting is a drop in the ocean compared with the rest of our wasteful lifestyles. Then there's smart meters. Don't get me started !

I have somewhere an old carbon fliament lamp I found in the shed when I moved in. Still works. Lovely warm light, much like the ones pictured.


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Aug 2014)

Barring two compact fluorescents I've done the whole house in LED's. I can leave every light in the house on inc. two aquaria for less than 200watts.  95% of the population call them "bulbs" - therefore to me they are "bulbs". I've never heard anyone outside the electrical trades call them "lamps".


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

I believe that any bulbous lamp can be rightly called a light bulb.

Therefore a Halogen lamp that is one of those stick thingies (official naming), is not a light bulb, however the picture from the OP shows only light bulbs.


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## novocaine (4 Aug 2014)

just because a name is coined and used does not make it correct, a hoover is a vacuum cleaner, a vacuum cleaner is not a hoover. 
the OP's image even gives you a clue, "decorative lamp", they could also be called globes, but that just sounds odd. 

as said, I was being a pedant and it should be read with tongue firmly in cheek, I call it a bulb same as every other pipper does.

Do not feed me, I am acting like a troll.


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

As for tony, not sure why you think a few billion people saving 90w per lamp is going to have no effect... the fact is you CAN get LED lights that have almost the same effect as incandescent. However you definitely get what you pay for, cheap LEDs can be awful.

If LED had been invented first no one would be complaining about this loss of "warm light", however you can certainly bathe in the warn light of a 90deg sun when our planet has all melted up....

I too have replaced almost all my lights with LED, and where I really really need a special type of light, I have a Halogen bulb (upstand dimmer in living room for example).

With 3kw total power in my house, reducing my power from 2kw to 200w has a massive impact.

I do think that early CFLs were really horrible light, and this plus the early cheap LEDs has put people off - but 95% of energy going to heat cannot be the right way to light our lives.


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

novocaine":261hd8uz said:


> just because a name is coined and used does not make it correct, a hoover is a vacuum cleaner, a vacuum cleaner is not a hoover.
> the OP's image even gives you a clue, "decorative lamp", they could also be called globes, but that just sounds odd.
> 
> as said, I was being a pedant and it should be read with tongue firmly in cheek, I call it a bulb same as every other pipper does.
> ...



I like feeding time :twisted: 

If you want to actually buy a hoover, or sellotape, or pritt-stick, or a jacuzzi, cellophane or velcro, bikini or asparin, then that's fine. So a light bulk is correct, until it's not. However unlike the other examples above, it's not a brand, it's a form.

please feed me


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## Sheffield Tony (4 Aug 2014)

wcndave":19vy4ap8 said:


> As for tony, not sure why you think a few billion people saving 90w per lamp is going to have no effect...


I didn't say _no_ effect, I said it was a drop in the ocean, a placebo, in the scale of wastage in modern life. 



> If LED had been invented first no one would be complaining about this loss of "warm light"


The "warm light" is deeply rooted in our psyche. Sunlight is quite close to a black body spectrum. Firelight is. Candle light is. All the types of light we associate with a pleasant ambience. CFLs ar a long way from it, LEDs may be better but are still no way like daylight.

I have some CFL's in non-critical places and halogens where I need nice light. Some old style lamps in little used locations like the bathroom, where instant nice light is desireable but they are not on enough to matter. But energy saving bulbs don't really reduce consumption from 2kW to 200W do they, because I for one turn out lights I'm not using, so my lighting takes maybe 100-200W when in use even using halogen lamps. And, half of the year, the heat is not waste. And a bit of glass and metal must take less to make, and recycle.


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## novocaine (4 Aug 2014)

As with everything, from tools to vehicles (lights being somewhere in the middle) there will always be the people who do not want to change when new tech comes along, the train would strip people of there flesh, the car was so scary it would never replace the horse, the internet was dangerous and full of perverts (oh wait, nearly right). 

We are still in the infancy of LED lights, the method by which they are produced has changed beyond anything recognisable to the people who worked in the industry 10 years ago, the same has to be said for CFL although this technology has been around a lot longer and has it's feet well under the table so to speak now, they are now inside the size of an incandescent, in an enclosed fitting they are all but impossible to tell the difference, only when you see the magic orb of wonder (new name for lamp/bulb) does it make a difference. 

as someone who has moved in to a new house and is ripping out all the nasty stuff the previous owner left behind I am replacing it all with CFL and LED where possible, the rest are halogen, nothing to do with saving the planet, it is saving my wallet (all for saving the planet though), even have a few 5w LED lights in the workshop, over the lathe and workbench, they are great and back up the full fluorescents at the ceiling nicely. they are more expensive at the outset, next year they will have paid for themselves in lower energy bill.

yey feeding time. 
only one of the shapes above would fit the definition of bulbous "fat, round, or bulging".


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

I think the ocean is made up of drops.

A few billion of them is not to be sniffed at. It of course does not mean we can ignore everything else that we do that wastes energy. Having put in a 7,000 Litre rain water tank, and enough insulation to keep a pooh bear factory stuffed for a decade, I am all for doing what we can. With a family of 4 we can easily be in four rooms at once, and I had 2x300w halogens in my workshop. there are 6 60w halogens in the kitchen, and a spotlight bar of 5 lights in the living room, that would be > 1kw already, so it can happen.

What I meant about being used to it, is that if Edison had stolen the idea from someone who did an LED light first, we'd never complain. You could always use candles if you like them so much ;-)

the heat is wasted half the year? and lets say in the hall / outside / bathroom you don't need it, then we can say 70% instead of 50%. 95x70 = 66% wasted energy, still pretty bad.

I'm off to the sharpening debate now, might pop back later!


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## novocaine (4 Aug 2014)

> is that if Edison had stolen the idea from someone



hahahahahahahaha. 

amazing what a marketing man can invent isn't it. he was the Steve Jobs of his day.

you might enjoy this little comic Dave. 

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla


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## woodfarmer (4 Aug 2014)

novocaine":23sgffo1 said:


> just because a name is coined and used does not make it correct, a hoover is a vacuum cleaner, a vacuum cleaner is not a hoover.
> the OP's image even gives you a clue, "decorative lamp", they could also be called globes, but that just sounds odd.
> 
> as said, I was being a pedant and it should be read with tongue firmly in cheek, I call it a bulb same as every other pipper does.
> ...



I have always been very fond of decorative globes


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## woodfarmer (4 Aug 2014)

What I really like about modern high deficiency lights is the ability it gives me to travel faster than light. In my youth when I went to the bathroom as soon as I switched on the light, the toilet would be fully illuminated before I could let go the switch. Now I can use the toilet, wash my hands and still the light has not illuminated the toilet. Fortunately it is usually bright enough for me to see the switch for me to turn it off after I have washed and dried my hands


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## wcndave (4 Aug 2014)

novocaine":1qk393db said:


> > is that if Edison had stolen the idea from someone
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely!


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## nanscombe (4 Aug 2014)

** Cough Joseph Swan Cough ***.



> *Sir Joseph Wilson Swan*, D.Sc.h.c., FRS (31 October 1828 – 27 May 1914) was a *British* physicist and chemist. He is *most famous for inventing an incandescent light bulb*
> ...
> In America, *Edison* had been *working on copies of the original light bulb patented by Swan*, trying to make them more efficient. Though *Swan had beaten him* to this goal, *Edison obtained patents in America for a fairly direct copy of the Swan light*, and started an advertising campaign that claimed that he was the real inventor. *Swan, who was less interested in making money from the invention, agreed that Edison could sell the lights in America* while he retained the rights in the United Kingdom.
> ...


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Aug 2014)

He was also working with Nikola Tesla at the time.

Novocaine - Sorry  - hadn't looked at your link when I posted that. Brilliant man!


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## Terry - Somerset (5 Aug 2014)

Just replaced the down lighters in the kitchen with LED bulbs with no obvious degradation in light quality. Previously 6 x 40w - approx 1kw (4 hrs) per day. Now LED 6 x 5w - approx 120w per day. 

Over a year should save a little over 300kw - about £40. Cost of bulbs about £15 - cheap chinese imports which may or may not last the 5 years claimed!

Around the house there are a number of other lights which are on fairly continuously during the evening (hall, porch, lounge etc). Total saving probably £100 pa - not massive but (as this is a woodworking forum) will buy me a some new mortise chisels, a few bandsaw blades, and half a dozen bowl blanks (for instance). Whether it's to salve an environmental conscience or save money it seems like a good idea!


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## Hugo_Wolfwhistle (5 Aug 2014)

Some of the newer and higher end LED bulbs can give a really good colour rendering index and a colour temperarure which is indistinguishable from a halogen.
The best ones have a single really big and bright LED (usually yellow coloured when off), these LEDs actually emit UV light which is invisible, or nearly invisible, however the UV light then excites phosphors which are coated onto the lens. This causes the phosphors to emit light of other colours which combines with the UV/blue light from the LED to make the white light you see. This technology allows them to make the LED bulbs with pretty much any colour temperarure and spectrum required, unlike CFL and early/cheaper LEDs.

When I changed the 12 50w halogen spots in the kitchen to LEDs, I bought a few different types and installed a mix of different Halogen bulbs and different LED bulbs at the same time. I then got my girlfriend, her mate, and my mate to try to guess which were which, and also pick the ones they liked best. Turns out that the winner by far were the UV/phosphor LED bulbs with everyone astonished that they werent halogen. Colour temperature wise, they were indistinguishable from the better Halogens, and nicer than the cheap ones. Some of the cheaper LED bulbs werent as good though and were too harsh.
I sent all the other LED bulbs back to the shop and changed them all for the better UV/phosphor LEDs (about £12 each with free delivery and 1 year no quibble exchange policy). I got them from a place called www.energysavingled.com.

We have been very happy with them, and best of all, unlike the old Halogens, they don't go pop and need replacing every couple of months.


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## wcndave (5 Aug 2014)

which one specifically did you get in the end?


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## Hugo_Wolfwhistle (5 Aug 2014)

I got the 6.5W GU10 that they sold, however just had a look at their site and they don't seem to have that model anymore, but they do have the dimmable equivalent (listed as 7W) which are a bit more expensive.
http://www.energysavingled.com/product/ ... -led-spot/

I found a review on their site of the ones I got ( http://www.energysavingled.com/gu10-led-spotlight/ ), so maybe they can still supply them if you ask, they were manufactured by a company called civillight I think and are made of some sort of cast alloy. They feel well made. 
I think this is the manufacturers page for them, although it says they are 7W so maybe these are the replacements;
http://www.civilight.com/Product_Detail ... 52&pid=163

Note that the cheaper £9.98 5W GU10 LED that energy saving LED sell is completely different, it's colour rendering index is only 80 (not too bad by the way, but not up to Halogen standards), whereas the 7W dimmable, and the 6.5W one I got have a CRI of 95 (although this is incorrectly stated as 80 on the energysavingled site).

Be aware that generally, the warmer the colour temperature, the more watts you generally need to give the same number of lumens as a cooler colour temperature equivalent.

I am sure technology has moved on again since I put them in a year ago, so its quite possible you can get even better and/or cheaper ones now.


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## Phil Pascoe (5 Aug 2014)

We rented a house for four months, it had twelve x 50w downlighters in the kitchen - six of which blew while we were there. It doesn't take long for the replacement costs to rack up at that rate. Where my computer is is lit by one x 5w 5000k and one 3 1/2w 2,900k. That seems to be a reasonable working light - the 5000k on its own would be a little harsh.


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## cutting42 (5 Aug 2014)

I did an LED conversion project on my house a couple of years ago replacing 145 incandescent lamps with LED, 85 of which were 50W halogen downlighters. Total potential power draw if they were all on would be 6.5KW which was a bit scary. Replacing them all dropped the total power usage to 785W.

I did a proper analysis of the time they were all on and power used, factoring in the increased cost of the LED lamps vs extended lifetime and came out with a return on investment of 2 years. If the LED's last as long as they promise then at 10 years I will have saved nearly £5000 on electricity bills.

This was all 2 years ago and the bills actually reduced more than expected so I am actually about £200 ahead compared to what the old bills were and having spent around £1000 on LED lamps.

The whole family has not had a problem with the light quality and I get less irritated with the kids leaving the lights on.


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## mind_the_goat (3 Jun 2016)

Dangermouse.":2gjw4br8 said:


> low energy bulbs are hideous and don't fit into our old Victorian house at all.



But you can now find so many different types I don't see that as a valid excuse any more.
Have you looked at LED filament lamps ?
http://www.osram.co.uk/osram_uk/pro...-with-filament-style-led-technology/index.jsp


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## mind_the_goat (3 Jun 2016)

mailee":245h3xj8 said:


> Afraid I always use the old incandescent bulbs in my home still as I think the low energy ones are rubbish! They just don't give out enough light especially for reading. :evil:



It's no use looking at the wattage of a modern lamp as this tells you the power consumption but not the light output, unlike the old incandescent lamps efficiencies vary a great deal with LEDs (and getting better all the time). There can also be a massive difference in quality of the lamps and the level of truthfulness on the packaging. I've had some LED lamps last a few weeks (direct from China) and others last for years. 
I will recommend a company called TP24, have several dozen LED lamps from them for 3 years now, not a single failure so far, and very good light output. Not cheap though but it's worth paying more.


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## monkeybiter (3 Jun 2016)

mind_the_goat":1n0ght9k said:


> Dangermouse.":1n0ght9k said:
> 
> 
> > low energy bulbs are hideous and don't fit into our old Victorian house at all.
> ...



Maybe, two years after the original post, he doesn't use that 'excuse' any more. :twisted:


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## BearTricks (3 Jun 2016)

Funnily enough they are selling bulbs like this in aldi this week. Must be something in the air. 

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## mind_the_goat (3 Jun 2016)

monkeybiter":3eqal7o6 said:


> mind_the_goat":3eqal7o6 said:
> 
> 
> > Dangermouse.":3eqal7o6 said:
> ...



 I have no idea how I managed to dig this one out, normally just scan the recent 'unread posts' list, pretty sure I didn't scroll through several thousand pages to find this one.


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## Benchwayze (4 Jun 2016)

Dangermouse.":3svo6im4 said:


> low energy bulbs are hideous and don't fit into our old Victorian house at all.



Is that because you need gas lighting to be authentic? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## RogerS (4 Jun 2016)

Sheffield Tony":22n8cqks said:


> .....
> These things are just an eco placebo. Make people feel like they are doing their bit without having to make any real compromises. Saving energy on lighting is a drop in the ocean compared with the rest of our wasteful lifestyles. ......



You should pop on over to the EU thread with that one as it was they who banned incandescents :wink:  !!

I completely agree re smart meters. They are just sitting there waiting to be hacked. All this talk of the 'wired' home makes me shudder since I will bet that 99.999999% of homes won't have stuck any home kit, PVRs in their own DMZ and thus protecting their computers from the inevitable hacks that are going to come down the line sooner or later.


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## woodfarmer (4 Jun 2016)

I dislike intensely these modern high deficiency lights. Although since their inception I can now move much quicker, in fact faster than light. When I was young i would pull the light switch in the bathroom and before I could move the room would be illuminated. Now I can pull the switch, perform the necessary and be washing my hands before the gloom begins to diminish. Going back to my youth I wonder if I would be better off using a candle.

It will be interesting to see them being used for "flash" photography. No doubt the camera man will hold the lens cover and start counting.


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## stuartpaul (4 Jun 2016)

RogerS":3omq353t said:


> You should pop on over to the EU thread with that one as it was they who banned incandescents :wink:


Oh dear, - if they're 'banned' why can I still buy them in my local hardware shop?!


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Jun 2016)

It was the manufacture, not the sale. Even shops that didn't stockpile can still legally sell heavy duty ones for wandering leads.


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## Wuffles (4 Jun 2016)

woodfarmer":1t6dr287 said:


> I dislike intensely these modern high deficiency lights. Although since their inception I can now move much quicker, in fact faster than light. When I was young i would pull the light switch in the bathroom and before I could move the room would be illuminated. Now I can pull the switch, perform the necessary and be washing my hands before the gloom begins to diminish. Going back to my youth I wonder if I would be better off using a candle.
> 
> It will be interesting to see them being used for "flash" photography. No doubt the camera man will hold the lens cover and start counting.



I think you're living a decade or so behind the rest of us? The slow glow energy saving nonsense of the past is long gone, it's all LED now, instant light, even less energy use than the ones you hate and much more attractive.

For example, if you wanted the brightest lights possible on a high end car, it's not xenons any more, it's LED technology.


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## woodpig (4 Jun 2016)

I bought a magnetic LED work lamp for use on my lathe and the light quality is pants compared to the halogen lamp on my milling machine.


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## Sheffield Tony (4 Jun 2016)

Since this thread began I've tried out a few LED lamps, with patchy results. Some didn't even fit the holder. Some buzzed annoyingly loudly in operation. I tried to return somec of the buzzing ones, and was refunded but told to throw them in the bin. Very eco. A few (maybe a third of the ones I've bought) have been good, far better than CFLs, bright light with quite acceptable colour.

The problem is finding lamps of a quality you can be sure of. As well as the cheap Chinese imports, there are cheap rubbish rebadged by seemingly reputable names. And fake copies. Some of which tend to catch fire. Almost as dodgy to source as replacement mobile phone batteries !


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## mind_the_goat (5 Jun 2016)

woodfarmer":2h4cqxha said:


> I dislike intensely these modern high deficiency lights. Although since their inception I can now move much quicker, in fact faster than light. When I was young i would pull the light switch in the bathroom and before I could move the room would be illuminated. Now I can pull the switch, perform the necessary and be washing my hands before the gloom begins to diminish.



I thought you were joking, but your faster than light travelling has enabled you post the same message in the same thread nearly 2 years apart. I think you need to get in touch with professor Hawking immediately.

(hammer)


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## Wuffles (7 Jun 2016)

Sheffield Tony":1cnxn3k3 said:


> Since this thread began I've tried out a few LED lamps, with patchy results. Some didn't even fit the holder. Some buzzed annoyingly loudly in operation. I tried to return somec of the buzzing ones, and was refunded but told to throw them in the bin. Very eco. A few (maybe a third of the ones I've bought) have been good, far better than CFLs, bright light with quite acceptable colour.
> 
> The problem is finding lamps of a quality you can be sure of. As well as the cheap Chinese imports, there are cheap rubbish rebadged by seemingly reputable names. And fake copies. Some of which tend to catch fire. Almost as dodgy to source as replacement mobile phone batteries !



I pretty much only use Led Hut, get reasonable trade prices there, they don't quibble about failures. Haven't experienced any of the problems you have.

Had to get hold of some gu10 lamps for a job away from home, bought a pack of 5 from toolstation, 1 failed immediately, rubbish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Jun 2016)

I've bought a few dozen, not expensive ones - and I've yet to have a problem with one.


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## Ransoman (7 Jun 2016)

Around the time this thread started I made the decision to replace every single light in my house with LEDs. Partley because I am tight, Mostly because I hate CFL's with a passion. I despise any light that has a warm up time.

I started out with the Muller lights (not to be confused with the yogurht) from Aldi and was immediately impressed. They matched the CFL's for brightness, more than halved the energy consumption and the colour of the light to me was indistinguishable from the old incandescent bulbs. I now use the bulbs sold in packs of 3 from Costco too and they match performance.

Now I only have 1 single non LED light in my house (excluding 2 temporary lights I am using) Which is my upstaires fish tank. I have an LED unit waiting to go in but need a new hood to mount it too.

I love the instant light and have seen a significant improvement on my electricity bill. Almost 25% lower and have only had 1 bulb fail. This being a light I leave on almost 24/7 in the winter and uses only 5w.


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## Woody2Shoes (7 Jun 2016)

I've changed everything to LED now - including an external floodlight - very large saving on bills (about 20%).

The LEDs I'm most proud of are the ones in our fridges - they save money twice, by not wasting power as heat, and by not forcing the fridge to use even more power to pump out that heat!

Added bonus - not having to get ladders out to change halogens in awkward places every few months.

Cheers, W2S


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## Aggrajag (7 Jun 2016)

After reading this thread very recently, and seeing the 'it's lamp not bulb' thread, I noticed last week that Wickes call them bulbs - they had sale signs for them plastered all over the till area.


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