# Building the Lingerie Chest



## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 May 2015)

For those interested in a watching a build of a chest - with an interesting design, I must add - the start (4 chapters) is now up on my website. 

Go to: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

... and scan down to "Lingerie Chest".

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## monkeybiter (14 May 2015)

Thanks for a very well illustrated write-up, and a very useful website.


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## iNewbie (14 May 2015)

Looking good Derek - you had me on pg2 looking for "Titemark" hide glue, though! #-o


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 May 2015)

Titemark! Did I really write that? 

It's a new line about to come out next April. Roll it on with the cutting gauge.

Titebond are bringing out a wheel gauge at the same time. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## shed9 (17 May 2015)

monkeybiter":h1x4whfy said:


> Thanks for a very well illustrated write-up, and a very useful website.



+1, what he said ^


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (17 May 2015)

Thanks for the kind words. 

I must say that I'm a bit perplexed. Over 300 views and three comments. Zero discussion. I put these builds up as a springboard to discuss aspects of building furniture. Is this the wrong forum? Oh well. You can look for the rest on my website.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## DTR (17 May 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> I must say that I'm a bit perplexed. Over 300 views and three comments. Zero discussion. I put these builds up as a springboard to discuss aspects of building furniture. Is this the wrong forum? Oh well. You can look for the rest on my website.
> 
> ...



If you want more discussion on this forum then perhaps you should actually post it on this forum . When all I saw was a link to another website, I moved on.


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## PAC1 (17 May 2015)

Derek. Your going to have to give us a bit of a clue. The thing is the whole site is aimed at discussing woodworking generally. It is then broken down into sections. So having seen your perplexed, I looked again. I am now perplexed as I do not have any idea what you want to discuss. So What aspects do you want to discuss?


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## CStanford (17 May 2015)

Your work is so crisp and so precise, almost to a fault. A slightly misshapen bead might do it some good, as would dovetails spaced by eye and perhaps one with a gap or a 'little joiner' here or there. Sometimes an unlimited budget as to time, tools, and stock are an artist's worst enemy. 

Here's to JUST A LITTLE imperfection. I'll drink to it.

I also think you missed an opportunity with your stock selection to do something very special.

To what extent was your wife involved in the design brief? I'm more interested in your design process than anything else. The woodworking itself will go well, indeed is going well, for the reasons mentioned above.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 May 2015)

PAC1":1hq471yd said:


> Derek. Your going to have to give us a bit of a clue. The thing is the whole site is aimed at discussing woodworking generally. It is then broken down into sections. So having seen your perplexed, I looked again. I am now perplexed as I do not have any idea what you want to discuss. So What aspects do you want to discuss?



Hi PAC

Keep in mind, I was just hoping to develop some discussion about design and efficient work methods. I did not think to state this simply because I have started similar threads over a number of years. Many here may be familiar with this. 

Examples of possible topics: 

One was mentioned earlier, that is, glueing up panels. What about the reason for thin panels - forming a curved frame-and-panel within a curved leg. Would you do this differently, such as a solid panel?

Another are the mouldings. Would you use a cove, or would you prefer something else, or nothing at all. My wife wanted a simple chamfer as a way of transitioning the rectangular frame to the panel .. until I explained that I believed a chamfer would be out-of-place with the cove around the top (to be built later). And then how would you go about making the cove in a curved leg? Would you do it differently from the way I did it? 

There are many items for discussion as everything is a compound curve, and I am feeling my way. I will raise these later.

Regards fro Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 May 2015)

CStanford":1ejnfc72 said:


> Your work is so crisp and so precise, almost to a fault. A slightly misshapen bead might do it some good, as would dovetails spaced by eye and perhaps one with a gap or a 'little joiner' here or there. Sometimes an unlimited budget as to time, tools, and stock are an artist's worst enemy.
> 
> Here's to JUST A LITTLE imperfection. I'll drink to it.
> 
> ...



Hi Charles

Is that a compliment or a criticism? :lol: 

Trust me, there are flaws. In any event, they are not deliberate. I think that the notion of deliberately making mistakes, or leaving plane tracks as "evidence" of handwork, is silly. One builds as precisely as skills allow, and handwork will naturally lead to some imperfections - just because we are not machines.

It is all relative.

A few weekends ago I attended a workshop on drawer-making. I do quite decent drawers, but the demonstrator is a high-end furniture maker, and I wanted to see how he went about the slips and muntin. He is also a judge at the annual Woodshow, where I have had pieces entered the past couple of years, and I was hoping to learn a little about what he considered important (I do not build for competitions, but was curious what is considered desirable as I thought some of the results at the last show were not what I would have chosen). 

Now if you consider my work "crisp", then you should see his! It is evident that he expects others to produce results at the same rarified level he reaches (with a combination of power and hand tools). His tolerances are fractions of mm. Is this excessive? I do not know because he gets paid very well for this level of work. He is not churning out pieces - a drawer can take all day to build. 

With regards stock selection, what would you do differently? What opportunity is it that you think I missed?

Design? I was looking for something that was softer in outline than a hard-edged chest of drawers. I played around with a fews mock ups first, trying to get a feel for it in the alcove in our bedroom ..












It evolved ...






Wood? It needed to blend in with other pieces I have built over the years, such as our bed in Jarrah ..






The main section is Makore (an African wood), which is a little like Mahogany but with the reddish-blown tones of Jarrah. It has a less dramatic figure than Jarrah, but lots of interest (see one of the panels in an early chapter). The Jarrah is figured, and I think that it will make complementary statement to the Makore. The drawers will curve, and be clean-lined without handles (opening on hidden Blum Tip-On buttons). I am trying for a stream-lined clean look. 

Makore and Jarrah ...






Getting going with this project was delayed by my fear of working with Makore, which is high on the irritation ladder. I have taken a lot of precautions with dust extraction. So far so good. The Makore is exceptionally hard on steel, dulling everything 2-3 times as fast as Jarrah, which is pretty abrasive in its own right.

Your ideas are very welcome.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Andy Kev. (18 May 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Thanks for the kind words.
> 
> I must say that I'm a bit perplexed. Over 300 views and three comments. Zero discussion. I put these builds up as a springboard to discuss aspects of building furniture. Is this the wrong forum? Oh well. You can look for the rest on my website.
> 
> ...


It seems to me that your account of this project is pretty well undiscussable. You've set yourself a task and achieved it. There would only be food for discussion if people thought you had made mistakes or done something sub-optimal and that is clearly not the case. That only leaves the wildly subjective area of personal taste up for discussion. For instance, somebody might think, "I'd have put a bit of stringing on the draws" but everybody has his own ideas on things like that.

For what it's worth, your accounts of builds read (to a beginner like me at least) like master classes and perhaps it would be an idea, once you think you've got enough of them, to put them out in book form, perhaps with a little more information on precisely how you employ different tools at each stage of the build.

If you want to generate discussion, how about posting your next design brief, hold back on your own initial thoughts as other people describe their ideas and then pitch in with your own and of course subequently report on what you actually do.


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## CStanford (18 May 2015)

If it's to be part of a bedroom suite, that all have to match and mesh, then I suppose any discussion of even the stock is moot. Well, it's actually moot since the project has already started. One does occassionally see an eclectic mix of styles and woods pulled off in a room, but discussion of same quickly deteriorates into a pointless debate about why I like chocolate instead of your preference for vanilla. 

And of course nobody is talking about deliberately introducing ersatz 'error.' 

Otherwise, as Andy Kev said, what is that we are to discuss?

I did wonder what the purpose of comparing and contrasting the Stanley 66 to Garrett Hack's scratch was all about. He does feature beads in a lot of his work and they look fine to me. I don't know for sure if they're all produced from a scratch, though:

http://garretthack.com/gallery_chests.aspx

I imagine that he uses a router for the vast majority of them.

Otherwise, the project looks to have American Arts and Crafts/Roycrofters lines in sympathy with the rest of the suite.

The mirror lifts and drawer touch latches will be a very nice feature. More information on how you spec'd these out would be appreciated, brands, and suppliers too.

You certainly laid in enough 8/4, nothing wrong with that.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 May 2015)

Andy and Charles

I am not sure why you believe all is done and dusted. I've only just begun. And while I have developed ideas about what I want to do, there are still many ways to do these - regardless of what I may or may not have planned, it is simply a vehicle for discussion about planning and construction.

Charles you are one that frequently voices the desire to have the forum focus on actual woodworking, rather than just the acquisition of tools (nothing wrong with that - I do it too, but I want more than just that). So, have you (and others here) built something like the chest I am building? If so, how did you do the casework? 

The purpose of contrasting Garrett Hack's scratch beader with the #66 is that I - like many others - have used his beading tool for years. It dawned on me why the classic "L" shape is better - that an arm of the "L" acts as a depth stop. Hack's beader relies on one watching the formation of the bead to know when to stop scraping. It is possible to overdue it. This would have been disastrous with a cove, which I consider much more difficult to get right than a bead. Plus, here I am doing it on a curve. The #66 overcomes this limitation.

I am moving towards the frame-and-panel assembly. Do you recall the article written by Sean Highto on Knots? You contributed to the thread and in the article. It is on my website: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... 0door.html

I have done a few over the years, but only with a bead and not a cove: 






Any suggestings how you might approach this differently? I assume that a curved frame will not make any difference?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (18 May 2015)

Derek, I have the Lie-Nielsen version of the 66 and that is likely what I would use on a curved section if not a router. Otherwise, a Record 405 with a beading cutter on straight parts. I bought extra annealed blanks that L-N sells (used to sell?) for making my own profiles and have yet to use them all and doubt I ever will. I've made a few scratches but they're more or less superfluous (never say never though) with a 66 in the shop.

I'm not so sure that I wouldn't just leave the beading off if it's going to cause more head scratching than it's worth. Beading on that piece might essentially be mixing metaphors. Coves too. 

What is the plan again for the side panels' curvature?

I do recall that post in Sean's thread and that was slam-bam woodworking (on my part) if ever it existed. But, it was to illustrate a point at the time. Torqued back 15% or so and those practice/demonstration workpieces would have been keepers. I loved that piece he made. He's very, very accomplished.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 May 2015)

Hi Charles

I have an old Stanley #66 that I restored from rust. It has the LN fences and all the LN blades. However I mostly make my own from bandsaw scrap. I do prefer the thicker LN blades over the LV blades, which just working the #66, with the bandsaw steel somewhere in the middle.

The plan for the side panels is to keep it as simple as possible. Keep in mind that the panels are not simple rectangles - they curve. 






Also included here is the curved face of the drawers and the chamfers or cove or round (not yet decided) on the legs to "open up" to the drawers.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (18 May 2015)

Don't the side stiles curve in a sweep toward the floor? I was wondering how the panels would be processed to account for this. Sorry for my confusion.

Are you relying on their thinness to allow you to bend them into the stile and rail grooves?

Maybe I misinterpreted the elevation drawing of the sides (view from front or rear), or missed it altogether.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 May 2015)

CStanford":3093apns said:


> Don't the side stiles curve in a sweep toward the floor? I was wondering how the panels would be processed to account for this. Sorry for my confusion.
> 
> Are you relying on their thinness to allow you to bend them into the stile and rail grooves? ...



Yes to both ... the stiles/legs curve in a sweep towards the floor, AND the panels are 1/4" thick, fitting the 1/4" groove to bend with the sweep. 

This is also the reason for the cove on the frame - so as to transition the rectangular frame to the flat panel.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (18 May 2015)

Thanks. Will continue to follow progress.


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## MickCheese (24 May 2015)

Derek

Don't be too miffed at the lack of responses.

I, like other I'm sure, read with great interest and will return for each instalment.

Whilst I don't feel I could come close to your standards I am still inspired.

One thing I do get from yours and others write ups is that attention to details takes time and sometimes I can be a little impatient.

So for me it has to be better planning and concentrate on each stage without rushing. So, keep up the good work, I appreciate it.

Mick


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 May 2015)

Thanks Mick.

It is indeed slow going when there are only weekends free, and when the family have not made other plans. I think we all share this.

I spent today fine tuning the coves on the stiles/legs and rails - because any variation in depth and/or width will show up when they are joined. All the pieces were cut to length, and I have completed the tenons. Now for the mortices. Most of all, checking and triple checking the allowance made for and direction of the mitres for the coves when mortice-and-tenoning. It is not simple when you are as spatially challenged as I am. 

No photos of this, but I will take some one the parts are completed and the way it is fitted may be shown.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Zeddedhed (24 May 2015)

DTR":2beu7xgl said:


> Derek Cohen (Perth said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the kind words.
> ...



+1
I know it sounds lazy but I don't have that much time to spend on the forum, although when I do it's always useful.

If the build/wip was posted here I'd be following it avidly.

Just saying.....


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## swb58 (24 May 2015)

Zeddedhed":38iokepy said:


> DTR":38iokepy said:
> 
> 
> > Derek Cohen (Perth said:
> ...



I think it's unreasonable for us to expect Derek to spoon feed us on this forum. How hard is an extra click?

Thanks for taking the time to record, explain and post your work online.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (25 May 2015)

Most of us have cut a good many mortice and tenon joints over the years. It occurred to me today to ask a question about something we likely take for granted: _Do you saw the cheek first, or the shoulder, and how far to the intersection do you go?_

For myself I saw the cheeks (as close to the markings as possible) ...







.. and stop a smidgeon short of the shoulder line.






Having created a knife fence on the shoulder line, I saw the shoulder close to but a smidgeon short of the cheek line ...






Then it is a case of back-and-forth to sever the bit between ..






It will eventually pop off nice and clean ..






The vanity cheek may now be sawn. This is 1/8" (3mm) ...






.. or the haunch created. The haunches are for the upper side of the panels, with the blind M&T at the lower end (as they do not go all the way to the bottom) ..






I am now ready to measure and fit to mortices, and then complete the mitres for the coves, and fine tune the shoulders ...






Ready for the weekend ...






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## marcros (25 May 2015)

on the few that i have cut, i have always done the shoulder cut first. For no particular reason though, and I have never questioned whether it is correct or not, or whether there is a reason to do it any other way.


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## xy mosian (25 May 2015)

Personally I was taught cheek first, as a slight overcut did not weaken the tenon as a slightly overcut cheek might do.

xy

ps. But then I was taught to get it with two cuts.

01/06/2015
pps. I.ve just noticed this does not make sense.  
It should read:- Personally I was taught cheek first, as a slight overcut did not weaken the tenon as a slightly overcut SHOULDER might do.


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## DTR (25 May 2015)

I've always cut the shoulder first, for no reason in particular. Just habit. It does allow you to split the waste off with a chisel though, if you're that way inclined (I'm not)


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## AndyT (26 May 2015)

If you are planing a rebate and a stuck moulding then it's normal to cut mortices and saw tenon cheeks while the wood is still square. Then plane the rebate and moulding. Then saw the tenon shoulders. Any slight inaccuracy in planing is most likely to be on an end; working this way you cut the end off.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (1 Jun 2015)

Below is a link to my ongoing build. 

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... Panel.html

This focussed on taking these parts ..






.. and forming this joint ...






.. to create this _curved_ panel ...






This is just a dry fitting at this stage. The emphasis here is the cove as a transition from frame to panel ..






Hopefully you will find parts to discuss or critique. 

Too little available time this weekend for building. I am hopeful of completing the other panel next weekend.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (1 Jun 2015)

It's a lovely frame-and-panel. Leaves practically nothing to be desired. The grain matching is about as good as any I've ever seen.


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## n0legs (1 Jun 2015)

That panel Derek is really quite gorgeous. 
It's not fussy and over embellished, I like the cove detail it's just enough.
Love the timber.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (13 Jun 2015)

A final few pictures to complete the section on the panels, as we move to planning out the drawer dividers.

Here is the second panel (on the right) ..






While it appears less figured than the first panel completed (on the left), it does have a special charm of its own. Here is a close up of the book matching and the central figure ...






This will give you a little more of an idea of the curve in the design ...











Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Jun 2015)

It's always a bit disheartening to hit a problem that threatens to derail the project before it has managed to truly get underway. 

When we left off last time, the panels were done and I began planning the drawer dividers.






Then I noticed that the join in the book-matched panel on the left had split in near the centre. It was possible to flex it back-and-forth. The lower- and upper sections were still holding. I wiggled a little hide glue into the split and pulled it tight with clamps. I returned after a day, and it looked strong. It had been my plan all along to add 1/4" thick strips at the inside of the panel, which would both stiffen and reinforce. Now it looked like this would be necessary, rather than insurance.

The areas for the 3" wide strips were marked off, and the finish scraped off the centre of each panel. One panel remained intact as this work took place. The other split .. again. Damn and pipper.

My wife said "take it off". I thought I may be getting lucky, but - no - she meant the panel 

Thank goodness for hide glue! I had used Titebond Liquid Hide Glue all along. However, I have never had to undo anything before. This was a first.

The first step was to drill out the pins. One side of the hole was covered with waterproof tape and boiling water was poured in. A heat gun added more heat. A clamp was used in reverse direct to push the sections apart. Slowly it moved, and then .... then my camera decided to blow up the memory card, and every photo of this process was lost! Double damn!

I started over today ...






Post-mortum of the panel indicated that the spring joint gap was too large ...






Clamping the pieces together would have squeezed out the glue. 

Checking the sides against a straight edge, it was clear which piece was the offender ..






I am not sure if I demonstrated the method I used to joint these thin 1/4" thick panel sections. Well this is how it was done ..

First step was to lift the board up on a 1/2" thick section of MDF (nice and flat). The second piece was added for balance ...






A second piece of MDF was layed on top, and then weighted down with bricks (to ensure the edge was flat and parallel to the bench top ..






A jointer plane was now about to shoot the edge square ..











Generally I plane the centre to create a spring joint, but here I was reducing the existing gap by planing it flatter. In the end it was a very slight, almost imperceptible hollow ..






To glue up, the panel pieces were first work from the back side. Tape was stretched across and used to pull the sections together ..






The full side was done, with the joint line reinforced to minimise glue running out ...






Reversing the panel, glue was spread down the join ..






This could then be opened out, taped together (again with stretched tape), joins levelled with a plastic mallet, and lightly clamped together. Bricks were added to hold everything flat while the glue dried ...






While this is drying, the solid panel received its reinforcing strip ...






The program will be resumed shortly ...

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (15 Jun 2015)

How frustrating for you! And how reassuring for the rest of us, that dismantling is possible to do, even if impossible to photograph...

Thinking about causes for the split... in a normal flat panel in a straight groove, it's fairly easy to achieve the right degree of fit between panel and groove, so that the panel does not rattle about but can slide if it needs to. You can slide the panel by hand and test the fit until it feels right.

In your case, because the groove and the panel are both cut from solid to be curved end to end, getting that same degree of fit/freedom to slide is really hard - as soon as either component bends or straightens end to end, the curves won't match and you get a tight spot. So maybe that happened, to such a degree that the grip on the edges of the panel was stronger than the glue joint in its middle.

Did you happen to plane an extra shaving off the edges of the panel at all before reassembly?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Jun 2015)

Hi Andy

The panel grooves are not the problem. Also, all the panel edges are eased and slides smoothly enough inside, although the fit is close. I checked the thickness of the panel all the way around before fitting.

When the panel split my first thought was that the glue was bad. However the M&T joints were really tight and strong. I was a little concerned that they would not come apart. More boiling water and heat ...

The point is that the failure in the panel could not be the glue. Plus the other panel was strong. A close look at the edges of the two sections revealed that they were almost dry - glue starved.

I think that there is always a danger of over-clamping edges regardless of whether they are spring-jointed or flat. However, here I think I ended up over tightening the clamps because they needed a touch more to close up.

The other issue is that there is not much room for error with a 1/4" thick panel - less glue area.

The Titebond Liquid Glue is convenient - it is used cold. It also has a long open time. There is a place for yellow glue, especially when you need something to dry faster and is not needed to come apart. I used Titebond Type II on the reinforcing strips.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (16 Jun 2015)

Make sure the LHG is not past its expiration.

A test to see if it is still good is to put a small drop on your thumb, then very rapidly pinch forefinger to thumb. If the glue is good it will start to 'cotton' or form a whispy web between your thumb and forefinger. It will also, somewhat obviously, feel very sticky when it gets to this point. If it doesn't form a very distinct array of webbing, it is not good and should be thrown out. It definitely couldn't be trusted to hold a butt joint with springing.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Jun 2015)

Hi Charles

You're right - I did not trust the old bottle .. although it was really holding on the mortice-and-tenon joints. I am convinced that I over-clamped the too-wide spring joint and squeezed out the glue in the join. 

I store all my glues and finishes in steel cabinets that are in a cool area. Anyway, I opened a fresh bottle for the new join - staying with hide glue there since there may have been vestiges of existing hide glue on the other edge. For reassurance, the reinforcing strip was glued on with Titebond II.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (16 Jun 2015)

Consider doing the thumb and forefinger test even if the glue is well within expiration. Making hide glue, even in an industrial setting, is inherently less exact than making PVA for example.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 Jun 2015)

First of all I am very pleased - and relieved - to mention that the panels are back in one piece and together. 

Then just a couple of comments about the failure and the hide glue ...

The reason for the failure was that the join was glue-starved. As simple as that. Well, almost. 

The reason for the join being glue starved was not because I used too little glue, and not because of the type of glue, but because I over-tightened the clamps.

The over-tightening was due to the spring joint being too wide. What is a good- and what is a bad spring joint? Well, a good joint is one that may be closed with hand pressure, and a bad one is one that requires help to do so. In the case of the one panel, I got it right. In the case of the failed panel, clearly I did not. I could see light through the centre when I inspected the join, and immediately I knew this was the cause. Pulling the join together with a clamp just disguised the issue since all the tension was at the centre (where the join failed), and the force squeezed the glue out ...... no glue + tension = open up.

A second question is "why spring at all". Some like to do this and others argue that it is not necessary, that glue is tougher than wood. In my book, it is important to ensure that the ends of a panel contact each other. If there is any curvature to mating sides (and often this is difficult to see - which is the point), extra clamping at the ends creates two tension sections .. where as the spring joint only creates one tension point. But the spring must be almost imperceptible, as in the photo I posted.

A third issue is the choice of Titebond hide glue. Well hide glue rocks ... but Titebond? I have had a number of emails warning me about its use, that it is unreliable, etc. My experience with it is not long - about two years. In that time I cannot recall a failure. It needs to be pointed out that the mortice-and-tenon joints were solid. There was no failure there. 

I must admit that I have avoided going to the trouble of preparing the stuff myself since I am lazy. The issue is that I get into the workshop on weekends only, and making up a fresh batch of glue each time, keeping it warm, etc .. well, it does not thrill me. Anyone have a way of circumventing this?

So back to the repair. 

It the face needed a minimal amount of scraping to level the joint ...






... before I called it good and re-glued and pinned the panel inside the frame.

The repaired panel is on the left ...











Reinforcing strips were added to the rear - I had planned to do this anyway to beef up the thin panels. They will not be seen (on the inside) but will offer a little more reliability ..






Some may be interested in the supports I built to aid accuracy in dimension and to keep everything square. The first was the base, which also will enable the chest to be moved around later ..











The other clamps across the top ..











So now we are back to clamping all on the jigs, with an added section of MDF clamped to the rear. The plumb bob ensures that vertical and centre is created, and may be returned to at any time ...






Once this is done, the inside perimeter can be traced onto the MDF. The MBF is moved to the bench, where the drawer dividers are drawn in. This is to act as a template.

A line is drawn down the centre of the cabinet template, and the dimensions first marked on this centre line ...






They are then transferred to each side ..











Here is the template back supporting the chest sides ...






I moved it to the other side and it was reassuring that there was about 1mm difference in the marked outline.

Now the intention was not to use these marks as the template, but rather to create a template from them. To do this the MDF outline was sawn down the centre, and then the curved side band sawn out, with a little cleaning up done with a small block plane. 






Measurements are marked both sides ..






... and then transferred to each side of one board (only) ..






The panels are clamped together and the markings transferred from one board to the other ..






Once one side is match, the boards are rotated to complete the other matching edges ...






Now we can move on to marking out angled sliding dovetails and build the draw dividers.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Jul 2015)

The cabinet carcase is now complete and together as a dry fit. 






You cannot see the curve on the front elevation in this photo, but it is clearer in the documentation ..






It had been my intention to post the carcase with completed draw blades – this would have been the next stage in any cabinet with straight sides. However it became increasingly apparent that, as a result of the many curves, this build is a tad more complicated, and I am have been left wondering whether I would ever get to be in a position to build the drawer blades as something else kept cropping up! It was a case of “I’d better to this before I get to that as it will not be possible later. And on and on ..

It is possible – _and indeed I like to hear the opinion of others here_ – that the sliding dovetails for the drawer blades could be marked and formed from inside the completed carcase. I am now seriously considering this method. Indeed, I cannot see an alternative. The carcase could be dis-assembled and assembled repeatedly for work to be checked, carried out, and then checked again. However the latter will cause wear on the joinery, with resulting loss of tautness and accuracy.

Let's hear your thoughts on constructing the drawer blades. The front and rear are planned to be sliding dovetails (as has so much of this construction so far).

Here is the build in detail: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... lades.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## MartinCox (12 Jul 2015)

Derek, I have enjoyed your website for a long time. There are a few bits I can't follow but put that down to my deficiency but also the reading/photo quality when transmitted to my iPad.

I admire your designs which seem to me to balance simplicity, elegance and craftsmanship. Sure, I would do some things differently - but that's different, not better. 

I would like (constructive, helpful) views on one thing you mentioned which I do struggle abut with. You say that the demonstrator works with fractions of a mm and ask if this is excessive. As we all work with this dead medium which still moves, can I suggest that the only time fractions of a mm matter is when the two mating pieces are glued together (eg glued up panels, dovetails, veneer joins) when perhaps that perfection is achieved as much by cramp pressure as by handicraft. Otherwise, and I'm thinking of drawer fit as an obvious example, isn't fraction of a mm obsessive as you ask?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Jul 2015)

Hi Martin

I am not following your last paragraph. Is it a reference to something I wrote and, if so, can you point me to it? Perhaps I am having a senior moment ... well it is Sunday evening here in Oz. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## MartinCox (12 Jul 2015)

Derek, my fault. You mention you attended a workshop where a demonstrator was talking about working in fractions of mm and taking all day over a single drawer. I'm only a bodger but I'm questioning whether, working with a medium that moves, fractions of a mm matter that much when it comes to moving parts such as the fitting of a drawer. I accept fractions do matter when it comes to dovetails, panel joints etc but how much of the final exact fit is down to the medium cramp pressure and perhaps even the expansion nature of some glues. I'm not being cynical but genuinely wonder if those cases of drawer fit, door fit even scraping a cove, are times when a fractions of mm mean anything in real life


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Jul 2015)

Hi Martin

OK that make sense now!  

The furniture maker in question works with very high end pieces. My reference (as I recall) was in regard to calculations when resawing wood for drawers. Nevertheless, precision is required for the type of piston-fit drawers he builds for his customers. He does amazingly good work, and is widely known.

0.5mm can make a difference.

I try to work to as close tolerances in the drawers I build as well - just not as good as his. Just as good as I can make. The drawers in this chest will be the type typical of a bombe: they will be coped to fit inside the curved sides. They need to move smoothly as the plan is that they will be ejected (enough) by Blum Tip-On mechanisms to not need external handles. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## MartinCox (12 Jul 2015)

I agree about 0.5mm metering. In fractions of a mm, my mind was thinking of much less, perhaps 0.1 or less


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## CStanford (15 Jul 2015)

Seems it would be possible to mark them while it is assembled, disassemble to cut the joint and then knock it all back together again. Only requires one disassembly before gluing up. 

Or, route the slots in place. I'd vote for a blind socket so as not to interrupt the nice flowing lines in the stiles. 

Lookin' good!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Jul 2015)

Thanks Charles.

I have worked out a simple method for obtaining accurate sliding dovetails for the drawer blades.

I had originally planned to cut shallow housings first, just enough flat area to register on from the inside, and then mark out and cut the dovetails.

The leg thickness above the panel (for dovetailing) is 10mm (about 3/8"). I estimated that the housing would remove about 1-2mm, and the dovetail will then need to be about 5mm (about 3/16") deep. The angled side faces down, the straight side faces up. Other factors cropped up that made me re-think this.

Firstly, the drawer is similar to this (but fitted to the curved angle of the sides) ...







With the legs being 45mm wide, I calculated that I would only have about 20mm (just over 3/4") for the dovetail. Too short.

Consequently I decided to add on a 25mm wide fillet behind the leg/stile to extend this width. 

Here is the inside of the chest (the rear rebate has not yet been added - marking needed to come from the assembled case first as it with be a stopped rebate) ...






What I shall do is clamp a fillet (intended for the front leg/stile) on each side and inside the rear leg/stile, and then mark and saw the dovetails from the rear (the rear was always going to be marked and sawn from outside).

The rebate will be 6mm (1/4") deep, which is also the depth of the dovetail. Once the dovetail is sawn and the waste removed, the clamped filet can be moved and glued behind the front, as planned. This will ensure that both front and back are coplanar.

Both sides are done at the same time.

The drawer blade is made to fit beforehand, and dovetailed. This is made double width (2 x 50mm wide), and then ripped into two pieces - one for the rear and the other for the front.

So, in effect, the front sliding dovetails are fitted from the outside of the rear of the carcase. A shallow housing for the dovetail is also now unnecessary. Altogether a simpler construction that will be easier to plan and make.

What do you think?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (16 Jul 2015)

I gather (or I think I gather) you're going to saw the slots while still in the dry fit. I'm sure it can be done but I probably would have disassembled one last time. No doubt it'll all work out in the end. Carcase strength is a 4+4=5 kind of situation. One slightly loose joint won't spoil the overall strength of the piece. At this point all I would personally be worried about would be cosmetic whoopsies that would be hard to cover - oversawing a line, etc.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Jul 2015)

Hi Charles

All the work is predicated on keeping the front of the chest free from evidence of dovetail sockets on the front legs. The sockets for the front sliding dovetails are to be made from the interior (rear of the leg frame). 

The plan is to dissemble one last time to complete the rear rebates, drill the screw holes in the upper panel, _and then glue the lot together_. As it stands, everything is square - amazingly so for a dry fit. 

But parts move, and dovetailing for the drawer blades is vulnerable to movement. I just cannot see how they can be done accurately with the sides apart. _All work on the sliding dovetails must take place with the chest glued up._

The strategy is simple ...

Measure the rear drawer blade for a fit, and saw the half dovetails at each end. 

Working only at the rear of the chest, mark the dovetails within the rebate on both sees. Now saw/chisel the sliding dovetail in the rear leg and the front fillet at the same time. 

When all the sliding dovetails and saw blades have been completed, move the front fillets to the front legs, and complete the sliding dovetail sockets there. The fillet will act as a template for the remaining socket.

As mentioned earlier, the drawer blade at the rear will be double width, so that, when ripped down the centre, the other half will become the drawer blade for the front.

Imagine this is the rear of the chest ..






And this is the strategy ...






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (16 Jul 2015)

Don't know if you'll find this helpful, or even applicable:

http://davidboefffurnituremaker.blogspo ... ourth.html

I certainly do believe that the marking out has to be done during the dry fit with the case square and sitting nice, flat, firm, and level. If there is plenty of room for the saw to work then I suppose you could just go ahead and do the sawing at the same time. I wouldn't do this if it meant sawing or chiseling to a line that was even partially out of sight and without the project sitting in front of me I don't know if that would be the case.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Jul 2015)

Thanks Charles.

I have scoured the Internet for bombe builds, just to see how the blades were installed. David's website was one I explored in detail. He does good work.

One of his images is useful in explaining the situation for those who are not clear about what I am trying to do. The typical cabinet (and bombe) has solid sides ....






This means that the sockets must be fitted from each end. There is no choice.

However a frame-and-panel breaks this rule - the frame opens the door for the socket to be formed on the inside of the frame. The only problem is that I have not found anyone doing this, and therefore no example or descriptions of methods for doing so. The method I have outlined is a strategy I have come up with. I am happy to hear other idea, if you have them.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (16 Jul 2015)

Is the piece in green the fillet you are proposing? And the sliding dovetail depth will be 1/4"?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Jul 2015)

Yes. Not to scale, of course. It will be 10mm deep and 25mm wide, and run the full length of the panel. The socket will be cut 6mm deep into the fillet.

One on each side. Saw both the rear frame/leg and the fillet together, then transfer the fillet to the rear of the front frame/leg.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (16 Jul 2015)

I have no experience to contribute but I'm enjoying seeing how the extra complexities pile up when everything is curved!

One thought about a possible source for construction details - is there anything in Roubo's L'art du Menusier that is any help? 

The Lost Art Press translation is not out yet but the plates are available. I'm away from proper Internet and bookmarks just now but I think you can find them at the French National Library (BNF) site or at the Hathi Trust.


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## CStanford (16 Jul 2015)

Derek, I honestly wonder if this might not be a good spot for dowel joinery as blasphemous as this might sound to you. Frame and panel, in this iteration, is apparently limiting the depth you can take the sliding dovetails. One can see that the solid-sided bombe form has allowed the maker to go really deep with the blades, maybe a touch too deep but he had options.

Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. The drawers will provide ample opportunity to show joinery skills.


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## Sgian Dubh (16 Jul 2015)

Derek, these sliding dovetails you're planning to cut might lead to a potential problem. I gather your plan is to cut a dovetail housing in both the rear leg and a fillet attached to the inner face of the rear leg, the latter then transferred to a position behind the front leg. How will you slide the dovetail created on the front horizontal drawer divider (blades you're calling it/them) past the existing central fillet attached to the back of the curved panel, see your image below? Is your plan to tilt the runner/kicker and front/back divider (blades) assembly inside the carcase to bypass this fillet, then tilt this assembly level to engage the four dovetails with the matching four dovetail housings? Do you have enough room to do this? If you haven't checked I think I'd do so prior to committing yourself to this construction method.

I'm not fully convinced you'll be reassured of tight join lines at the front because the dovetail housing worked in the applied fillet looks as if it will be some 40 or 45 mm away from the front edge of the cabinet - that's quite a length of unlocked wiggle if the leg decides to warp, or other movement develops somewhere. 

I also think Charles makes a suggestion worth considering when he mentioned dowelling the blades to locate them. Maybe you could do this (or similar, stub tenons for instance) for six of the blades, and undertake the more complex sliding dovetail joinery only for one of the middle dividers (blades). I suspect this will provide more than enough strength and rigidity. Slainte.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (17 Jul 2015)

Hi Richard

The question I have for you is how you would align dowels to ensure (1) a fit (multiple dowels need more precision fitting than any other joint), and (2) how you would ensure that the two sides remain join at the correct angle (since one cannot just dowels and fit the blade/divider with the carcase joined)?

I just cannot see how this can be done. 

My reluctance to change at this point is that I think I have found a viable method. I spent a lot of time - and aspirin - trying to find a method of joining the sides via the drawer blades (as I understand, the drawer "divider" is a vertical, not a horizontal member - but you are the lecturer and expert here, and I acknowledge this). Keeping the front of the carcase dovetail-free is one factor; alignment is another.

The fillet is 10mm thick, made in Makore, and will be flexible enough to be clamped inside the rear leg and against the panel. At 10mm it is flush with the inside projection of the leg.

Once the sockets are cut, it can be lifted out, and then fitted to the rear of the front leg, against the panel. Again flush with the front leg projection up from the panel. It will be glued in. 

Now the fillet is only 25mm wide. It is intended that the socket be extended another 20mm into the leg to become a stopped sliding dovetail. The sockets in the fillet act as a guide to saw and chisel the extra 20mm. The fillet and the leg will be locked together by the drawer blade. 

The depth of the dovetail socket is 6mm. Do you have a concern about this? The dovetail will be a single side (flat side up) and lower side at 1:5 for maximum purchase. 

There is not a 45mm gap to the front of the chest. The drawer blade ends 25mm from the end (the space in front taken up by a 22 thick drawer front, 2mm for the Tip On, and a 1mm relief). That is the reason for the 25mm fillet, that is, to add this extra support and effectively turn the front leg into a 45mm bearing surface again.

I think this should make a strong construction. What do you think - does this change your view?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Sgian Dubh (17 Jul 2015)

Derek, I think the sliding dovetail joinery you propose is sound, especially as I hadn't realised, or forgotten, the drawer fronts overhang the front rails, so the additional fillet behind the front leg makes sense. The main thing that struck me was ensuring you can manoeuvre the assembled drawer runner/kicker and horizontal rails into place around the central vertical fillet backing the panel before committing yourself to the method. The 6 mm depth of the sliding dovetail doesn't cause me concern, assuming the joinery is neatly executed.

Regarding your query about the blades nomenclature, I have most often seen them described as either:
*a)* dividers, distinguished as needed by the words vertical and horizontal, or
*b)* called rails for the horizontal parts and dividers for the verticals.
Your term 'blades' is a fairly new descriptor to me. It's just different, and it may be an Americanism, but I don't know for sure.

Dowel joinery in your piece does have its challenges because of the curves as you point out. In the comment I made about Charles' suggestion I was primarily acknowledging it as having merit, although if I was going for this type of construction I'd almost certainly go for a tenon rather than a dowel, precisely because of the alignment challenge you mentioned. There's a bit more 'give' in a mortice and tenon. The position and angle for the mortices could be picked up from an MDF template(s) if working by hand. Using this type of construction also leads to what could be quite a challenging assembly and glue up with nine horizontal parts fitting to four verticals all at once. Using sliding dovetails as you propose does eliminate this challenge because they, hopefully, will slide in easily after the main four parts of the carcass are finally assembled. Slainte.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 Jul 2015)

Many thanks Richard. Your detailed thoughts are much appreciated.

Some of the terminology is a result of the confusion caused by the many nomenclatures around the world. I suspect that the USA and the UK use different tems. Oz seems to fall between or on both sides now.

I am very impressed that you could visualise from my description. I would struggle with this 

I drew up a simple sketch to illustrate this, partly to share with others my convoluted thinking, and partly to help guide me along this route:






Plan going forward (as much as a checklist for myself as to communicate with others here who remain awake  )

1. rebate the back - these are stopped rebates so I need to chisel and use a router plane.

2. glue up the carcase.

3. dimension the two fillet stips (one for each side)

4. dimension the drawer blades (each 83mm wide - ripped on the tablesaw later to create 45mm wide for front, 35mm wide for rear, and 3mm waste from the saw blade).

5. mark and saw the sliding dovetails.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Benchwayze (18 Jul 2015)

Derek.

Now here's a point for discussion. 

You mention that you don't like to leave deliberate plane marks on a piece of furniture. I don't like to do that either, but most of my hand finishing had a little undulation on large panels, due to the curved irons I favour. 

There's a 'fashion' these days to leave shoulder lines visible on dovetails, to indicate the drawer was a 'piston-fit', and no planing was necessary. 

I have a genuine, Georgian chest, which also shows this feature. However, I think that was done because when furniture was made mostly by hand, there wasn't time to fuss about, marking shoulder lines only where material would be removed. Except maybe in high-class work. (Generally, shoulder lines were the only marking that was done. The tails were cut by eye, cutting four sides in one go. I never did cut tails in batches, to be honest, and I didn't leave shoulder lines on view. I would feel lazy, so I took the trouble to mark only where I could remove the lines along with material.

All the shoulder lines prove is that the drawer was a piston-fit, with no planing necessary. I can live with people thinking I planed to fit!  And I didn't have to explain to a customer when they pointed out the 'scratches'. 

It doesn't matter to me now, because my days of leaning over the vice to cut dovetails are gone. Except on rare occasions, I use a jig, for the sake of arthritis. Needless to say, I don't try posh work any more.  

What say you about shoulder lines Derek? 
Regards 
John


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## CStanford (18 Jul 2015)

If one uses the endgrain of a drawer front as the reference surface and sets the cutting gauge accordingly the drawer side is planed down just to the drawer front's endgrain, hence no way a gauge mark remains on the drawer side unless it was incredibly deep. It's one way of working, but not necessarily the only way.


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## Benchwayze (18 Jul 2015)

CStanford":2m0puqif said:


> If one uses the endgrain of a drawer front as the reference surface and sets the cutting gauge accordingly the drawer side is planed down just to the drawer front's endgrain, hence no way a gauge mark remains on the drawer side unless it was incredibly deep. It's one way of working, but not necessarily the only way.



I guess I must be confused then CS. I'll have to check on the definition of a 'piston-fit' drawer, but either way I never used to scribe Paul Sellers's 'knife-wall' across the roots of the tails.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (18 Jul 2015)

> You mention that you don't like to leave deliberate plane marks on a piece of furniture. I don't like to do that either, but most of my hand finishing had a little undulation on large panels, due to the curved irons I favour.



Hi John

I tend to see humour in someone wanting to make something recognisable as "handmade". Does it really matter how it is made for the customer as long as it is well made? In my case the customer is usually my wife, and she is more interested in the final product, not how it is built. How it is built is interesting for me, and you, and this forum. My friends look at a dovetail, and look away. They do not appreciate the fineries of handcut dovetails. So who am I going to impress by leaving a baseline? It is ugly anyway.

Personally, I do not like to leave marks on furniture - joints or surface - unless it is not a show surface. My interest is building contemporary designs using traditional joinery and mainly handtool methods. The modern designs speak differently about tool marks. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (18 Jul 2015)

Benchwayze":tble7jx4 said:


> CStanford":tble7jx4 said:
> 
> 
> > If one uses the endgrain of a drawer front as the reference surface and sets the cutting gauge accordingly the drawer side is planed down just to the drawer front's endgrain, hence no way a gauge mark remains on the drawer side unless it was incredibly deep. It's one way of working, but not necessarily the only way.
> ...



See Ian Kirby and Alan Peters and it'll clear it up for you. You set the cutting gauge (used to mark the baseline on the drawer sides) to be able to plane the sides back just to the drawer front's endgrain (length of drawer front and back controls the 'piston' fit). Cutting gauge marks go away in the process.

You don't need a deep line, just a clear line. They can be deepened at each socket as or if necessary.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 Jul 2015)

It seems like a lot of planning for little actual progress. However the basic carcase was glued up after stopped rebated were planed at the rear, and the strategy for making the sliding dovetails in the curved sides from _inside_ the front leg/frame was finalised.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... rward.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (22 Jul 2015)

It's just going to be simply smashing.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (27 Jul 2015)

Below is the work completed over the past weekend. The Lingerie Chest is progressing steadily. 

The strategy for the sliding dovetails into curved sides looks to be successful. The strategy was necessitated by the design, which required the housings to be made from inside the front legs, rather than from outside, as is usual.

There is also a novel method for creating the sliding dovetails using an easy-to-make dovetail plane (everyone will make one!).

The article is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... ls-LC.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (27 Jul 2015)

Meticulously made, recorded, and explained!

You'll soon be on the final lap and I'm sure the result will be worth all the planning and care.

What will you be doing for the front-to-back runners? Will they be stub-tenoned and glued at front and back? Into mortices or a full length groove? Will you be fitting dust boards?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (27 Jul 2015)

Thanks Andy.

The runners will be stub tenoned into the front and rear drawer blades. I am planning to glue only the fronts leaving the rear to be free to expand/contract. 

One of the reasons for beefing up the front and rear housings, as well as making the drawer blades and runners from 18mm Jarrah (rather than a softer secondary wood) is that the runners cannot be housed in the sides and will sit proud. 

Dust boards? Only the top drawer has a dust board since this will be a jewellery box. Adding dust boards to the other drawers seems excessive. What do you (and others) think in this regard?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (27 Jul 2015)

I agree that dust boards are not necessary. Maybe useful if the drawers were overfilled with clothing stuffed in anyhow, as they prevent one drawer from interfering with another, but I imagine that your client is more discerning and careful than that!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (3 Aug 2015)

Below is the latest installment of the Lingerie Chest build. I get the chance to test out whether the strategy to build the sliding dovetail housings from the _rear_ of the carcase for the _front _of the carcase works or not.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... dding.html

I know that there are no questions asked, but please feel free to comment or offer your thoughts how you would do it differently. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (3 Aug 2015)

It's great to read about this extended exploration into what is possible. You must be really pleased that it's gone together and all stayed parallel where needed; that's a great testament to your skill and care.
As for the grooves in the curved fronts, I would never want to discourage you from getting more tools but unless I have misunderstood there are some other options you could try. 

You could plough most of the groove with an ordinary plough and then go back and deepen the groove into the curve with a chisel.

You could buy a rare and expensive coachmaker's plough.
You could buy a relatively common and inexpensive coachmaker's router. You could use any of several models of Preston quirk router. Or you could even use a British tool from the 1960s, the Teknatool. Charles Hayward mentioned it favourably a couple of times and they are not especially rare or dear. It's a blade on a stick with a fence and a handle to pull towards you. 

I can find pictures of these later if needed.


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

I remember those Tektools being advertised in the Woodworker Andy. Cor, those were the days! When CHH was still with us! 

Cheers

John


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## Bluekingfisher (4 Sep 2015)

What's the latest on the build, Derek? has there been much progress or has LIFE gotten in the way?

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (4 Sep 2015)

Hi David

Thanks for the interest. I have been rather busy in my practice, and not much time free. What there was went in running a workshop. Instead of rushing the build, I decided to put it aside for a few weeks. I spent several hours last weekend building a mitre saw, which I will finish up this weekend and post here. I shall be back to the chest next week.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## D_W (4 Sep 2015)

Looks lovely so far Derek. It's nice to see solid wood furniture that doesn't look cumbersome or heavy, but instead crisp, accurate and light.


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## CStanford (4 Sep 2015)

Very Hank Gilpin-ish for sure:

http://hankgilpin.com/

Gilpin was a student of Tage Frid's for what it's worth.


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## D_W (4 Sep 2015)

CStanford":19ku54q1 said:


> Very Hank Gilpin-ish for sure:
> 
> http://hankgilpin.com/
> 
> Gilpin was a student of Tage Frid's for what it's worth.



The chest bottom right on that page is the curliest cherry I've ever seen. 

Truck cap is different for sure, too.

Some of the lingerie chests in there look remarkably similar to what derek has started.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (4 Sep 2015)

Thanks for that link, Charles. I do enjoy Hank's work and it is a compliment for my design to be seen alongside his. 

I am not nearly half way through this build. The drawer rails and blades have to be done, the bow-fronted dovetailed drawers and coping the drawers into the sides of the curved cabinet. There is the secret top of the cabinet, which will have a lid that lifts out of the moulding to reveal a mirror. And finally, there is a hidden lock for the top drawer, which needs to be fitted out as a jewellery case (with a sliding inset drawer). It promises to be such fun!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (4 Sep 2015)

Watch the video on Gilpin's site....


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (4 Sep 2015)

Loved the video!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (4 Sep 2015)

He's just so strong. Look at his illustrations too. He was in the fine arts program at RISD and Frid made him get involved with furniture. The guy is shot full of talent.


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## Bluekingfisher (4 Sep 2015)

I look forward to your next installment Derek, what I find most impressive, apart from the work itself of course, is your enthusiasm and willingness to share your experiences and learning on the forum.


Anyways, thanks for the update and good luck with finishing the mitre saw build

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (28 Sep 2015)

It's been at least a month since I managed time on the Lingerie Chest. Found some time today. It seems to take forever to get the rhythm back.

We left off last time with the sliding mortice sockets installed. These had been built in one section (a "fillet" - I did not know what else to call it), which was split into two parts, one for the rear and another for the front of the carcase. This was to ensure that they were both parallel and coplanar in this curved sided chest ...







The front and rear drawer blades were fitted ...






Today every was removed ..






The first task was to ensure that there were no sections of the fillet that were higher than the sides of the carcase (otherwise the drawers would not be flush with the sides). These were pared down ..






The dovetails in the fillets needed to be extended into the sides of the carcase ...






... by 20mm (this will leave space for a 22mm thick drawer front and a shadow front edge). The fillets were glued onto the panel - any movement in the floating panel will be towards the rear, and allowance for this is made in that area. The extention of the sliding dovetails would solidify the structure at the front ...






The sides of the sockets were saw, first with a dozuki and then extended a little deeper with an azebiki.











The ends were drilled to depth ..






.. and then pared out. The sides of the sockets became handy guides to maintain angles ..






Now that that front and rear drawer blades were in their correct positions, the side drawer runners needed to be made.

The drawer blades were morticed and the runners received tenons ..











In fitting them, the front blades were first inserted (from the inside), and the runners fitted (the picture below is taken from the rear of the chest) ..






The rear blade could then be attached. The photo below is taken from the front of the chest. The lower two drawer blades and runners are filled (dry so far) ..






Note that the drawer fronts are bowed, and bowed filler sections are yet to be added to the front drawer blades.

And the last photo before I close up for next weekend ...






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (28 Sep 2015)

Looking good!

Thinking about it, there are at least two options for coping with the solid sides moving relative to the framed drawer supports.

1) Glue the sliding dovetails at the front, glue all mortice and tenon joints in the frame so the frame is rigid, and let the back of the frame move in its own sliding dovetail (unglued).

2) Glue front mortice and tenon joints and glue front of frame to sides. Glue rear side-to-side piece to sides of case. Cut rear M&Ts slack and leave dry, so any movement is accommodated within the joints.

Will you be doing either of these, or some other ingenious method? 

I think (1) is a bit neater, provided there is enough clearance between the rear of the rear cross piece and the back panel, while (2) would still work if you wanted the back panel to touch the backs of the rear cross pieces. (It's fun to agonise over invisible details like this!)


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (28 Sep 2015)

Hi Andy

The aim is to allow the panel to move. The front fillets are connected to the front legs, so all movement have to be towards the rear.

The rear fillets have a 5mm gap between the fillet and the rear leg, allowing the panels to move by this amount (which is about twice as much as likely) ..






The plan is to glue the sliding dovetails at the front and rear, but leave the sides unglued at the fillets. The panel is then still free to move.

Your thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (28 Sep 2015)

You've lost me, but I'm confident that your design will make sense somehow!


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## custard (28 Sep 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> It's been at least a month since I managed time on the Lingerie Chest. Found some time today. It seems to take forever to get the rhythm back.



I take my hat off to you. Embarking on a major project when you only have a few hours at a time requires astonishing discipline and commitment in order to maintain progress and quality standards. So when you finish it will be a double triumph, the piece itself and just as significantly sticking the course to the end!


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## DTR (29 Sep 2015)

An interesting build =D>


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (5 Oct 2015)

There are a couple of techniques regarding tuning of the mortice and tenon that hopefully are worthy of discussion. 

The next chapter of the build is here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... enons.html

For those who just want the update on the build progress, here it is ..






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (7 Oct 2015)

You're making good and steady progress Derek. As mentioned, made more impressive by the fact this work is all conducted on a 'hobby' basis, as and when time becomes available. 

It is starting to become quite a large piece now, do you have frustartions and concerns when storing it out of the way when not working on it. I know you have a reasonable sized shop although I suspect never enough room.

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (7 Oct 2015)

Thanks David.

I suspect that one can never have enough room. :? In my case I share a double garage with my car (my wife's and son's is parked outside!  ). I do have a longer-than-usual garage ... well, that was my specification when we built the house 20 years ago. Consequently, there is space for a workbench and all the cabinets at the one end. Still, I'd love not to have to move the car out each time I get in there (but it is a soft top - ragtop to the Yanks - convertible, and I cannot leave it out in the Perth sun).

My not-so-secret weapon is a little "jig" that I have used for a goodly number of years now. About 5 years ago Megan at Popular Woodworking asked me for a contribution to the magazine "tip" page, and I showed her a picture of the jig. She published it. I was semi-surprised - not because it is not useful, but because it is so simple. It allows me to move my build around the workshop with the greatest of ease. 

Basically it is just a 2"x4" with locking wheels at each end (I do not have a photo of them as they are so insignificant on their own). I have one pair of these, each being about 3 ft long. I simply screw on a MDF board to create a moving platform - whatever length/size is needed for the current project. The project is easy to move into a corner of the workshop when time to shut shop for the day.

Here they are under the current project ...






Just add whatever blocks needed to the MDF - in other words, easily customise your own work table for each project.

Here is a larger, longer piece ...






When the project no longer needs the wheels, just unscrew the MDF and pack the wheels-on-the-2x4 away.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (8 Oct 2015)

A simple solution to an everyday problem Derek. My shop is not a big as yours although storing projects out of the way is I am sure a problem most of us have. 

Good to read you prioritise your own car above the rest of the family's  

I too have a simple jig much like yours, although for wheels i screwed on half a dozon of those roller bearings. They are OK provided the shop floor is clean or not riddled with extension cables. It being so slim fits between my drill press base and adjacent cabinet so no need to screw on a base, I guess I am just lazy.

I also have the swivel roller base from an old office chair. by screwing a scrap of MDF onto it it has proved to be a useful platform on the few occasions I have used spray euipment. Tne swivel base is an easy means of spraying the back of the cabinet without having to walk around to the other side, very useful in my small wshop. 

Keep up the good work.

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (26 Oct 2015)

Well, it has been a lot of work to complete the drawer runners. Everything is now done preparatory to building the drawers. I've really been looking forward to this stage, since it will be another challenge.

The drawer runners, themselves, required a great deal of finicky work. Getting them in square and coplanar is straight forward in a straight construction, but curves and compound angles change all that. 

We left off last time with the basic frames in ...






To the front of each drawer blade was added a bow. 






I was asked early on why I did not just shape this directly on the blade. The reason I chose to do it this way was just that I felt I had more control over the result. Every drawer is a different width, and needs to project in a coplanar line from top to bottom. I drew up a template to shape a consistent curve ...






That is the Jarrah for the drawer fronts at the rear.

The upper most drawer will have a secret lock (since this drawer will be a jewellery box). I decided to use the Shaker method. My variation consists of cutting a slot in a centre mullion ..






... which is lowered below the rails ...






There will be a spring (probably in mild steel) beneath the drawer that will drop down and lock into the rear of the front drawer blade ...






A finger (through the slot - which will hide the mechanism from below) will lift the spring to permit the drawer to slide forward ..






Since the casework is a framed panel, guides are needed for the drawers ...











Here are they installed. Perhaps you can begin to see the how the slight bow will form ..











Now I need to figure out the drawers construction - coping it into the sides. Any thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (26 Oct 2015)

That's a serious piece of furniture! How many hours so far?


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## AJB Temple (26 Oct 2015)

Interesting piece of work Derek. As an aside, when I first clicked on your website I quite quickly left to again. The reason is that your home page is white text on black background, plus you use a less than easily legible font, and unless you have sharp young eyes (as opposed to my spectacled middle aged ones) it is very hard to read. We are in a click and rapidly move on era and capturing attention fast is what keeps people on pages. Not intended to be offensive in any way - just stating what we have found in rebuilding our own commercial websites over the years. 

I do enjoy seeing fine furniture being made and give you kudos for doing this in a workshop that has to store cars and other stuff.


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## AndyT (26 Oct 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Now I need to figure out the drawers construction - coping it into the sides. Any thoughts?
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek



Well, I was expecting the drawers to be straight backwards and forwards (I think this is fundamental!) but also straight up and down, for the sake of your sanity. They would have curved false fronts, planted on.

But if you are going to make the sides curve in the vertical plane, and dovetail them onto bulbous fronts, I shall sit back and learn how it's done!

(Maybe you could start with very thick wood, make the drawer boxes in the normal way, and then plane/carve away until the desired curved shape is revealed inside the block? There must be a better way!)


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## griggs (26 Oct 2015)

That is a very fine looking piece of furniture Derek. Will be interested to see how you approach the drawer construction.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (27 Oct 2015)

custard":3mcc7bec said:


> That's a serious piece of furniture! How many hours so far?



Oh Gawd ... I do not want to think about that! 

Every now-and-then I start thinking of the pieces I am planning to build next, and have to shut them out.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (27 Oct 2015)

AJB Temple":7wzc0agx said:


> Interesting piece of work Derek. As an aside, when I first clicked on your website I quite quickly left to again. The reason is that your home page is white text on black background, plus you use a less than easily legible font, and unless you have sharp young eyes (as opposed to my spectacled middle aged ones) it is very hard to read. We are in a click and rapidly move on era and capturing attention fast is what keeps people on pages. Not intended to be offensive in any way - just stating what we have found in rebuilding our own commercial websites over the years.
> 
> I do enjoy seeing fine furniture being made and give you kudos for doing this in a workshop that has to store cars and other stuff.



Yes, the website was written for a computer and not a phone, iPad or similar screen. I shall have to redo it one of these days. No time. It is not a revenue-maker, and all the costs are mine. So, one day ...

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (27 Oct 2015)

> Well, I was expecting the drawers to be straight backwards and forwards (I think this is fundamental!) but also straight up and down, for the sake of your sanity.



Andy, the last thing anyone would call me is "sane".

This construction is essentially a modern "bombe". The drawers are bowed at the front and curved at the sides. Half-blind dovetails at the front and full at the rear. Built with traditional slips ...

Yeah! :shock: 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (27 Oct 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> custard":a0obugbo said:
> 
> 
> > That's a serious piece of furniture! How many hours so far?
> ...




Good for you! 

This is an impressive project on at least two levels. Firstly the technical accomplishment, but even greater is the patience and determination in seeing it through...and never rushing or taking desperate shortcuts to meet some imaginary deadline. I take my hat off to you.


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## David C (28 Oct 2015)

When I was training the advice for bow front chests was to make the laminated drawer fronts first.

The carcase could then be made to match the resultant curve.

I notice that cockbeads were still widely used.

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (29 Oct 2015)

Hi David

I imagine the cockbeading was needed to hide the endgrain on the laminations of the curved drawer front?

I was not confident in the glues available here to achieve consistent curves, so discarded laminated fronts for solid. I was fortunate to have a stock of Jarrah at the desired thickness - anyway, the drawer fronts have just a gentle curve.

My plan is to size the drawers from the lower edge of the front drawer blade. The question is, is it preferred to (1) build square from that point, and then cope the sides to fit (which leaves the insides of the drawers square), or (2) reduce the amount of wood requiring coping by cutting the drawer fronts at a sight angle, and dovetailing into the angle (which leaves the inside of the drawers at an angle). Or, any other method?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## CStanford (29 Oct 2015)

The laminations show on the long and end grain orientations but the laminations were veneered -- they did not build them up out of the primary species as this would have been wasteful (depending on what period and what country). So the cockbeading was there to serve another function of projecting the edges of the veneer, and as you point out to more or less hide the laminations which were of a secondary wood. There are always exceptions to all of this.

Working these and other forms out of the solid was certainly done and one of the reasons we don't have commercially available Cuban Mahogany any more.


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## Bluekingfisher (2 Nov 2015)

I have nothing but admiration for your patience and tenacity on this project. It would appear nothing is repetitious, meaning every aspect whether it be a drawer carcass, web frame or the vex of the bow fronts have to be individually calculated and applied. Top marks

The secret lock is an interesting and innovative point, a great place to hide & secure all that Aussie gold! 

Looking forward to reading (and viewing ) how you approach the coping

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (2 Nov 2015)

Thanks David

I am not sold on that particular secret lock. It is a Shaker design. I think that it will be eventually irritating to open a lower drawer to release the catch. I needed to add it in earlier on in case I chose to use it later.

What I prefer is to have a catch inside the lid at the top (that will house a mirror). I am looking more closely in this area now while I source the wood for the drawer sides.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (22 Nov 2015)

This is the start of the second stage in this build. Now that the carcase and drawer blades/runners are completed, it is time to start on the drawers. 

The drawers are complex as they call for compound angles and dovetails. The design may be improved, and I welcome comments about this and the methodology. 

This chapter provides a pictorial on the design and construction I have come up with so far. Pine is used in this test case (where Jarrah fronts and Tasmanian Oak sides will be used in the final build). However, the construction is for real.

The link is here (too many photos to post on the forum): http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... awers.html







Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (24 Nov 2015)

Morning Derek,

It seem inevitable building two sets of drawers for each drawer opening is essential. A lot of work for sure, however building the the prototype pine drawer is the only way to fine tune and ensure the final and finished drawer build goes smoothly.

I assume in times prior to mass production furniture, unique pieces such as you cabinet were designed and built in the same manner. Whether or not the apprentice was tasked to build the prototype for the craftsman to copy or the craftsman build them both for the sake of continuity I don't lknow. Suffice to say, I expect you will have to perform the duties of apprentice and craftsman. All part of the learning curve.

Good luck

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (28 Dec 2015)

Here is the next chapter in my lingerie chest build: the drawers. Just two of eight so far. I cannot believe how long each one is taking! Hopefully I shall speed up as I now understand what is needed. 

I did promise to post once I had a few done. I shall not get back to the build for about a month as we are off to the UK for a few weeks.

For those who just want the details, the link is: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/ ... awers.html

These are compound angled drawers, with a bow front and angled sides. There are flush beaded slips, amongst the details.

For those who just want a progress picture, this is for you ...






(The carcase is Makore, a West African hardwood, while the drawers fronts are Jarrah)

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (28 Dec 2015)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> I cannot believe how long each one is taking!



I believe the guidelines John Makepeace used to give at Parnham was that if you introduced one curved aspect into a piece of furniture you should cost the build time at x3, and if you introduced two curved aspects then it should be x10!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (28 Dec 2015)

Custard, thanks for that. It makes me feel better. I can put together a decent drawer in about 4 hours, but these each have taken 3 days! Oh well, at least it is not for a living. I would starve :shock: 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## marcros (28 Dec 2015)

Derek, what is the Livos oil?

i am following the build with interest. beautiful work and design.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (29 Dec 2015)

marcros":b5irnodk said:


> Derek, what is the Livos oil? ...



Hi Marcros






I was introduced to it a couple of years ago by a local high end furniture maker.

It took this ..






.. to this ...






From the manufacturer (Australian) ...

*ARDVOS Universal Wood Oil #266*

*Product Description*
Made from cold pressed flax seeds, the oil is combined with other natural waxes and resins to penetrate the timber surface. Reinforces and deepens the natural color of the wood grain. After 2 to 3 applications it produces a slight sheen and water-resistant surface. Easy to apply and rejuvenate.

*Suitable for*
For interior surfaces made from timber and cork, such as furniture, floors, stairs, parquetry, chopping boards and toys. Ventilate well in closed areas such as cupboards.

*Full Declaration*
Linseed oil, linseed oil - stand oil - natural resin ester, linseed oil - stand oil, linseed oil - wood oil -stand oil, natural resin glycerol ester, orange oil, isoaliphates, silicic acid, micronized wax, dehydrated amino sugar and drying agents free of lead.

*Colours*
Slightly honey-coloring.

Link: https://www.livos.com.au/shop/page/shop ... duct_id/37

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (29 Dec 2015)

I don't think you will find any readers able to offer tips from experience of a project of quite such curvaceous complexity!
I'm just content to watch your thoughtful, steady progress, with some awareness of just how hard it all is.

And I really like the continuous wild grain across the first two drawers!


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Dec 2015)

The oil would seem similar to a hard wax oil.


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## G S Haydon (29 Dec 2015)

I'd echo Andy, love the grain on the fronts and I can't help on the drawers! However, I'm sure you'll be quicker come the last drawer and you'll skill will have grown even higher too. Enjoying your progress so far.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (1 Jan 2016)

Hi Andy and Graham

My iPad appears to lack a "thank you" button, so thanks for your kind words.

Regards from London

Derek


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## G S Haydon (1 Jan 2016)

Welcome to the UK Derek! We've arrange some sh1te weather for you!


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## Bluekingfisher (5 Jan 2016)

Fantastic work Derek.

Interestting to note that incorporating two curved surfaces to a project can multiply the build time by up to x10. I must remember that next time the going is slow.

On a positive note, perhaps a few weeks off from the build will have to champing at the bit when you return home. 

I hope the current weather here is not to the detriment of your stay..........at least its mild (so far) 

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (5 Jan 2016)

Hi David

We are at the train station at Edinburgh (been here a couple of days), just waiting to travel to Burley-in-Wharfdale to meet up with family. Spent yesterday at Loch Lomond. It was COLD! I think I shall stick to Perth Oz heat  Overall, the weather has been "mild" - fortunately no rain. 

I have been dreaming of designs for draw pulls. I wonder what that means?

Cheers

Derek


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## Racers (5 Jan 2016)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Hi David
> 
> We are at the train station at Edinburgh (been here a couple of days), just waiting to travel to Burley-in-Wharfdale to meet up with family.
> 
> Derek




Wow not many trains then :wink: 

Pete


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (5 Jan 2016)

:lol: 

Cheers

Derek


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## arnoldmason8 (5 Jan 2016)

Hi Derek
When you come to Cornwall will you be anywhere near Redruth ? If so it would be great to meet you.
By the way- are you a "cousin jack" returning home for a visit ?
I hope the weather remanis decent whilst you are here. Its OK at the moment.

Cheers ------- Arnold


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## Harbo (6 Jan 2016)

Burley-in-Wharfedale 
Many moons ago I used to walk over the moors to a nice pub there. 

Rod


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## Bluekingfisher (6 Jan 2016)

I have been dreaming of designs for draw pulls. I wonder what that means?

Cheers

Derek[/quote]

I hate to state the obvious Derek (although, I suspect you are already aware), it means you are getting old mate  

As a young man I used to dream of fast cars and women, now similar thoughts of drawer pulls and neat fitting dovetail joints fill my mind. 

I guess that's the way it should be, dreaming in reverse order would be more of a concern.

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jan 2016)

arnoldmason8":21h4hutp said:


> Hi Derek
> When you come to Cornwall will you be anywhere near Redruth ? If so it would be great to meet you.
> By the way- are you a "cousin jack" returning home for a visit ?
> I hope the weather remanis decent whilst you are here. Its OK at the moment.
> ...



Thanks for the offer, Arnold. Lynndy and I shall be "nearby", based inin St Ives. I have no idea of our movements when we are there. I shall check, but I suspect Plans have been made.

Regards from Yorkshire

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jan 2016)

Bluekingfisher":2lxbzj0s said:


> I have been dreaming of designs for draw pulls. I wonder what that means?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Derek





> I hate to state the obvious Derek (although, I suspect you are already aware), it means you are getting old mate
> 
> As a young man I used to dream of fast cars and women, now similar thoughts of drawer pulls and neat fitting dovetail joints fill my mind.
> 
> ...



David, I am in full denial of my age. I have a birthday coming up (in a few days, Lynndy reminds me), and I shall be one year younger.

Regards from Yorkshire

Derek


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## custard (6 Jan 2016)

Hope your UK visit is going well and the weather stays dry, if you're passing through Hampshire pop into the workshop!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jan 2016)

Hi Custard

Thank you for your offer. Lynndy says we can only stay with you for three weeks. I hope that this fits in with your plans.
 

I wish we really could do this. One day ...

Regards from Yorkshire

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (7 Jan 2016)

As you move south Derek be mindful of the forest fires we have been experiencing, the place is tinder dry!

David


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## arnoldmason8 (11 Jan 2016)

Hi Derek

I hope you arrived in Cornwall OK and are enjoying your visit. Weather is not too bad for January.

Cheers Arnold


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Feb 2016)

Just a quick update on the Lingerie Chest.

Four drawers done. They take 3 full days each to build (1 1/2 weekends). This includes thicknessing/sawing/shaping all the parts, dovetailing, and fitting.

The gaps between the drawers will be sorted out once all are done. There will be 1/16" between the drawers.












And the obligatory dovetail shot 

The dovetails increase progressively, as with the size of the drawers.






Next post will be after all the drawers are done.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (12 Feb 2016)

Coming along nicely Derek, lots of work but well worth the effort.

The dovetailing really stands out too.

Great work.

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Feb 2016)

Thanks David. 

Got another drawer mostly done this weekend. Each one really needs three days: one for preparing the parts ... jointing, thicknessing, shaping, one for dovetailing and shaping the drawer front, and a third for fiting (into the chest, then making and fitting the drawer bottom). 

It's like watching grass grow. I'll post pictures again when the drawers are done. Lots to do after that.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bluekingfisher (15 Feb 2016)

Norm Abrams has a lot to answer for, building a tall boy in a couple of half hour shows doesn't begin to identify the amount of time it takes to build a piece of furniture.

How much time do you reckon you have invested so far?

With this in mind, it makes one wonder how the pro boys eek a living from building furniture, even with the benefit of machines (which I know you don't use much).

Looking forward to the next installment. 

David


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Feb 2016)

Hi David

If I was sensible (because anyone who builds stuff like this with handtools is crazy) and meeting a deadline, I would do it differently. For example, all the drawers would be vacuum bagged laminations around a form, not carved out of solid wood. And if I did choose to do them out of solid wood, I would build a cradle for a router, and carve them that way. 

The carcase would not actually taper. It would be square with legs that taper and create the illusion that the carcase is tapered.

The drawers would not be compound dovetails, but square with planted fronts. Further, there would not be slips but grooves in thick side walls. Try plywood for the drawer bottoms - all you need to do is size it with a tablesaw.

Any other shortcuts?

But I am not sensible, so I do not do any of this.

Almost finished the fifth drawer.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (15 Feb 2016)

That's a great answer Derek, a credo for the woodworker working for the pleasure and satisfaction of the journey, and seeking a superior object along the way.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Mar 2016)

Seven drawers down. One to go ..











At this point, I estimate I am about at the half way stage. Lots to do. Keep you informed.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (12 Mar 2016)

Looking very, very good. You must be delighted with the results. 

=D> 

Are you entirely self taught or have you had any formal training? Impressive either way!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Mar 2016)

Thanks Custard.

I've been a hobbiest all my life, which translates to self-taught. Began concentrating on handtools about 20 years ago. I acquired a thicknesser and jointer ( Hammer A3-31) for roughing out a few years ago - when you become an old fart, you either give up or you get smart. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (12 Mar 2016)

Then I take my hat off to you Derek. 

That's a considerable achievement by anyone's standards, and not just for the quality of the craftwork. It takes real dedication and commitment to see a project like that through to the end.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Mar 2016)

All the drawers are finally done ...

Well, almost ...

The drawer bottoms have still to be made for 4 of the drawers. After making each one separately, it occurred to me that this was the one item that I could build en masse.












After the drawer bottoms are in, the task will be to make the drawer fronts coplanar. They are close to one another in curve, but there are a few variations here-and-there. What I plan to do is shim the drawers by about 1/2" to raise them out an equal amount so that they all lie proud of the carcase, place the chest on its back so that the drawers face upward, and then sand the faces with a long sander made out of a 2x4. 

What do you think of this method? Any other ideas?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Sailormantom (14 Mar 2016)

Hi Derek

Like many others I have been following this thread with great admiration for your skill and the effort you have put into the build, including the clear explanations you have put out here and on your blog. 

Regarding sanding have you thought of a large pad such as this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-SB68-Ext ... B000RU4OCI instead of using a 2x4. I have used something similar for sanding boat bottoms and they are easy to hold and very easy to change paper.

Good luck. Regards, tom


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## AndyT (14 Mar 2016)

Wow, wow, and thrice wow!

I've no clue about your sanding plan - but I'm just thinking - 

1 - if those drawer fronts look that good without any finish on, they are going to be amazing soon - what sort of finish will you be using?

2 - I was going to ask about the really hard design job of deciding what sort of pulls to put on the drawers, but checked on your website and found that you have already decided on special push stops so no handles are needed - all that lovely grain pattern stays visible. I agree!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Mar 2016)

Sailormantom":25wex5eq said:


> ..
> Regarding sanding have you thought of a large pad such as this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sealey-SB68-Ext ... B000RU4OCI instead of using a 2x4. I have used something similar for sanding boat bottoms and they are easy to hold and very easy to change paper.
> 
> Good luck. Regards, tom



Thanks Tom

If I use a sander, it must be long - like a jointer - the one you link to is very short. My plane is that it will be used with very fine sandpaper. This is just to mark high spots, and then I will plane these away. (Think of colour sanding a car body panel).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Mar 2016)

AndyT":nkvu79o5 said:


> Wow, wow, and thrice wow!
> 
> I've no clue about your sanding plan - but I'm just thinking -
> 
> ...



Thanks Andy

I will use Ardvos Universal Wood Oil, an Aussie product. I've had terrific results with this in the past.

The drawers will have pulls - I decided that the push stops were not reliable enough. At the moment I am thinking of a double row of "cut down" Shaker pulls, something like this ...






My wife wants them in Jarrah, to blend in with the drawers. I am tempted to ebonise them. Your thoughts?

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (14 Mar 2016)

Derek, I wouldn't presume to offer any suggestions! But I do sympathise - the handles make such a huge difference to the look of a chest of drawers.

I expect you will make some prototypes, temporarily fix them in place (blu-tak?) and look at them from across the room where the chest will go, and decide in your own time, helped by your lucky client.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (5 Apr 2016)

This weekend I returned to the Lingerie Chest to flush the drawers fronts and seal all with white, dewaxed shellac - I scraped off all the oil finish as I found this made the fronts too bright. The shellac evened out the colour as well.

The drawers are now complete (coplanar) save for the drawer handles and waxing .. which will be done this coming weekend. And then it will be time to start the top section.

In the end I did not use sandpaper to level the drawer fronts, but simply marked off the high spots and planed/scraped them.

It is difficult to see the bow fronts in this photo.






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## marcros (5 Apr 2016)

is there a difference between white shellac and blonde, Derek? i have never heard of white before.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (5 Apr 2016)

marcros":17jid0r3 said:


> is there a difference between white shellac and blonde, Derek? i have never heard of white before.



This is a product made by Ubeaut in Oz. It is ready mixed but I dilute it in equal parts of meths. The advantage is that it does not colour the wood. Plus, what I found, the oil I used was causing blotching.

Here is a link ...

http://www.ubeaut.com.au/dewaxed.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## marcros (5 Apr 2016)

thanks. the description of the colour seems similar to the one on the blonde flakes that I have- hardly colouring the wood beyond the wetted colour.

cracking job on the chest- looks fantastic


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Apr 2016)

The figure on these drawer fronts was both a source of pleasure and frustration. I love the wildness of it. On the other hand, it was important to achieve a flow from board-to-board, and I only had just enough to make these drawer fronts. If I screwed up one, I would have had to start all over again. 

The Jarrah fronts were also difficult to work. Very hard wood, with grain that went all over the show - reversing ... even end grain showing through. Planing these boards really demonstrated the value of the double iron as they were less affected by grain direction. It was necessary to scrape at the end since I needed to level small areas, and fortunately the scrapers worked very well.

Traversing with a LV Skew Block plane to level the faces ..






Followed by a HNT Gordon palm smoother (60 degree bed) ...






This is the type of tearout from this plane (which is a fantastic very small smoother) ..






Removed by scraping ...






Then sanded (!) to remove marks (theis is a Mirka Abranet hand sander, using dust extraction - I hate sanding, but this excels) ...






And finally scraped for a fine, burnished finish (you can distinguish the scraped from sanded sections) ..






Lastly, two coats of White Shellac (by Ubeaut) to finish. This is a concentrate of dewaxed shellac that is thinned with methylated spirits (alcohol).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## DTR (6 Apr 2016)

Beautiful work, Derek =D>


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## D_W (6 Apr 2016)

Derek - do you have the results from a double iron plane in pictures, too?

Wood like that is very hard to get a finish planed surface on unless you're willing to accept that it will be technically without tearout, but be level across raking light. 

If I am going to sand something like that, I will usually scrape first because it's faster than waiting for the sander to work out the white spots shown in your pictures (which ultimately leads to not sanding).

I can see that it's no party with the white stuff, and time isn't a key consideration, as you say - not doing it twice is.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Apr 2016)

Hi David

I did a lot of planing throughout with a double iron ...






I do not recall taking comparison photos before - probably did, but they were not relevant to the build at that time.

I should clarify that the aim was to level the 8 drawer fronts. Some needed a little removed in spots, and others (such as displayed) required flattening across the width. All had previously been planed with a double iron, with no tearout. 

The small Palm Smoother came out now to concentrate on smaller sections. For the most part it did a good job, but it was obvious when it hit reversing grain - as one expects not just from Jarrah, but also as the boards are bowed with the grain, effectively altering the grain direction. That was when the coarse scraper came out. This was smoothed off with a card scraper, then sanded, and then scraped again. (I chose not to explain this before since it sounded more complex that I imagined anyone would want to hear). 

The sanding was quick: I ran through 120/220/400 grit. The Mirka grits are amazing. With the vacuum cleaner connected, it is extremely efficient. There is no waste dust to clog up the sander to slow things down, and the Mirka grit, itself, lasts and lasts.





















Regards from Perth

Derek


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## D_W (6 Apr 2016)

While it always warms my heart to see the double iron prove itself, I'm surprised that if I follow correctly, the double iron did the job without issue. 

I have had some things, quartered cocobolo comes to mind, where nothing will plane it and the softness of the early wood is so bad that it crumbles so deep that you can't just casually remove the tearout with a card scraper. 

High angle plane use is starting to escape my mind, though - too long ago, though I do remember fighting the thinner/sharper/thinner/sharper battle and a slip into a deep shaving by accident creates a mess to clean up (whereas the double iron just prevents you from being able to take the dangerously deep shaving).

I do envy you that you get salvage wood that pretty. No such thing exists here - most salvage wood is barn beams, and they are usually oak.

(agree on the mirka stuff - I don't have that sander, but there is a gigantic internet dealer of mirka products a couple of miles from my parents. I've never been dissatisfied with anything made by them, and I'm not a particularly brand loyal person most of the time).


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## sundaytrucker (7 Apr 2016)

t'riffic work on the lingerie chest. The use of hand tools has been inspirational too.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (10 Apr 2016)

We left off last time with the drawers completed - coplaner with one another, and then finished in white shellac (Ubeaut).

It was was nice to work at a relaxed pace this weekend, since the goal was to install the drawer handles, wax the drawers (Renaissance), and complete the rear of the carcase. All nice and easy.

The panel for the rear is 1/4" thick Makore, as are the carcase frame-and-panel sides. I made the panel at the start of the build. It had begun as one of the side panels, but it lacked any figure, and consequently I set it aside for the rear of the carcase. This was finished inside with wax and outside with Livos Universal Wood Oil (an Aussie product), which was used on the all the other parts of the carcase.

The panel is secured with nails into the frame. The panel can move laterally via widened (drilled) nail holes. There is a coved attached moulding that tidies up the fitting. The cove matches the cove that is part of the frame-and-panel sides (which were shaped into the frames).






I got to use my restored mitrebox 
















Before the rear could be done, the handles needed to be attached to the drawers. The handles had been a major headache for a long time. I knew what I wanted but could not find ready-made versions. I hunted everywhere like an obsessed dervish!. I was about to build them in Jarrah (my wife's choice to go with the Jarrah drawer fronts) when I found them about 6 weeks ago on eBay! According to the advert they are "antique bronze".

After building a template, and carefully marking, triple checking measurements, I drilled the holes and screwed them on ...
















What do you think?

Here is a side. The bow is very subtle, softening the profile ...






What's there to do? Well, I am starting on the top section. The chest needs a crown moulding. This will hide a lid. Raising the lid will reveal a mirror on the underside, plus a recess to place jewellery or cosmetics. The recess will be leather lined.

Then there are jewellery trays to fit (also leather lined). This will go in the top drawer ..






All the drawers have good extension, held horizontal by the last 1 1/2" -2".

Until the top is done ...

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Harbo (10 Apr 2016)

Lovely work 

Rod


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## memzey (10 Apr 2016)

Awesome. Stunning work, very well done!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jun 2016)

*Top of the world to you!*

Well, my wife is partly Irish, and we are getting close to completing her Lingerie Chest.

My last post completed the drawers, and now attention is turned to the top of the chest ...







This was a saga. I built and rejected three tops before settling on the one below. There were a variety of mouldings, and none fitted in, even the subtle ones. In the end it was a case of less is more. Book matched Makore (as with the carcase) ...






As seen here, the panel is reinforced by breadboard ends. The breadboards line up with the side frames.

So here is the completed carcase. I apologise for the inaccurate colour - it should be a little more red. New camera and still trying to sort out the lighting. Trying to learn to take better photographs!






Here's the obligatory dovetail picture, which most have seen already. The bowed drawers (figured Jarrah) are difficult to judge in this photo, but the curves will show up in the top shortly ..






So, let's see what happens when we lift the top ...






The chest is just 48" high, and the mirror allows it to double as a dressing bureau. This will be covered in dark blue leather.






The hinges for the top are heavy-duty Brusso butt hinges that have a built-in stop at 95 degrees. Holding up the top and mirror is not a problem - my concern was to ensure the lid did not fall down! I searched for months for a suitable brass stay, but could not find one anywhere. The problem was that it needed to fit into a narrow space, and all the ones I looked at needed more room than I had. In the end I designed and built my own.






A brass bits-and-pieces, reshaped, fitted together ...






The stay and catch are french fit into the top. There is a finger hole to access the head, then swing it over and into the catch. It works really well.






And one last photo. Apologies for the gruesome person in the background 






I am now working on the last part of the Lingerie Chest: sliding jewellery trays in the top drawer.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (6 Jun 2016)

Still stunning! You do realise, don't you, that some people making a drawer to be lined with leather would just use any old bit of MDF offcut... but not the man who rejects the first two tops and makes his own brass fittings!


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## John15 (6 Jun 2016)

A beautiful piece of furniture Derek. Congratulations.

John


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## G S Haydon (6 Jun 2016)

This has got better for me each time I see it. The figure on the drawer fronts had me unsure for a while keeps improving each time I see it. Technically superb and a tribute to your skill Derek!!! Blooming well done


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jun 2016)

Thanks Andy, John and Graham for your kind words.

I had planned to post only after the Chest was completed, because I often feel like the instalments are so small in progress, that I fear that it appears that I am repeating myself. However, from my side there has been so much planning and building and planning and building ... The trouble is that I collect so many photos, and then realise that I had better post something now, because later it will be too hard to condense. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (6 Jun 2016)

When you start make your own cabinet fittings, because you're dissatisfied with all the commercially available options, then you really know that you've arrived at the next level of furniture making!

=D>


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## Bm101 (6 Jun 2016)

Please keep up with posting as you go, it's both stunning and inspirational.


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## Eric The Viking (6 Jun 2016)

Derek, it's lovely. 

Thanks so much for sharing - what a marathon too!

E.


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## DTR (6 Jun 2016)

Brilliant work =D>


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## whiskywill (8 Jun 2016)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


>



How is the catch fixed to the lid?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Jun 2016)

There were a few comments about the brass stay, and posted this on another forum.

I probably have the largest range of brass stays in the history of mankind, collected in the course of research ... Oh, I think that will do it! Cha-ching (sound of me paying for another stay) .... Damn, too large to fit!

Originally, I had planned to situate the stay to the right side and inside the tray. This has a depth of about 1 1/2". It was this that was too shallow for all the stays I came across. Here is what I came up with ...

I was wandering around the local hardware store looking for inspiration when an idea formed around these door closers (front) and (at the rear) box hinges ..






I managed to find brass pipes with a 5mm hole and 5mm brass thread. The brass thread fitted the pipe to create a strong brass rod.

The "catch" (female) was modified: the wings with screw lugs were removed (needed to reduced the width and make a neater fitting), a screw hole was drilled in the centre, the springs were removed and shortened (re reduce tension), and the case ground back by about 2mm each side.

The "lug" (male) was also modified: shortened and rounded (as it needed to fit at an angle. The existing square shape only permitted entry if all parts were square with one another). The brass thread was tapped into the lug ....






Here is the end with the box hinge ...






This was also 5mm diameter .... see how it was meant to be?

Once the lower section was epoxied together, the lid was morticed for the catch (to prevent it moving on the single screw) ...











Once this was done, the stay was attached (clicked in), and the position for the pivot could be marked for drilling ...






And the rest (drilling, grooving and morticing for the stay) is, as they say, history.






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Eric The Viking (8 Jun 2016)

Really nicely simple and suitably elegant.

Thanks Derek - I might mod that idea in the future (have brass rod, will play...).



E.


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## OM99 (8 Jun 2016)

Derek,

just stunning. might be able to do something like that in 20 year or so.

Olivier


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (11 Jul 2016)

I completed the Lingerie Chest this weekend, and moved it to our bedroom to recuperate from the cold of the workshop.

It was comforting to see the pieces still looking quite good …






Here it is in the nook that was always to be its home.






What I would like to share with you are the details that I have been working on over the past few weeks. These have been fun to do, especially as they were planned right at the outset, but left until the end.

The first task was not so fun, if I am honest. In fact I wanted to avoid the risk I needed to take, and enquired of a few people whether they could spot the problem. I was reminded that, if you have to ask, then there is an issue. What was the issue? It lay with the fitting of the handles.

Here is an older picture of the drawers taken after the handles were fitted ..






What is difficult to see is that the drawers are bowed, while the handles are designed for a flat drawer face. As a result, there are gaps at each end …






I dreaded having to chisel into the drawers to seat the handles. In the end, I knew I could not leave them like this. Fortunately I came up with an alternate plan, which was to file the raised sections of the handle into a profile that matched to drawer fronts.

To do this I build a profile of the bow, taped on 120 grit sandpaper, and lapped the handles on this …






Despite fantasies of the handles disintegrating, it turned out all good.

The second area involved the “jewelry drawer”.

Facing the chest (48” high), my wife is tall enough to look down into the top drawer.





Since this drawer is to hold jewelry, it needed to be locked. I did not wish to add more hardware than necessary and so, instead of a lock-and-key, added a Quaker Lock.

A Quaker lock is simply a spring-loaded wedge under the drawer. It is made of the following parts: thin, flexible (straight-grained) strip of wood, a thin wedge, and screws …






These are put together to create a spring wedge, which extends to the rear of the drawer blade ..






To release the Quaker lock, first open the second drawer, then reach underneath and push up the spring while simultaneously pulling out the drawer.






The top drawer opens to reveal the upper jewelry tray (spaces for ear rings) …






Sliding it back reveals the lower jewelry tray (spaces for necklaces and rings) ..






The construction of these trays was based on a different design to the drawers. Slips were used in the drawers, but the trays needed to maximize the space inside, which left the 3mm (1/8”) thick drawer bottoms 3mm from the lower edge.











As can be seen below, the lower pin is not enclosed, which allows more space for the drawer bottom groove ..






The drawer bottoms were covered in 1.2mm thick leather. This was attached with contact glue (I used a brand that permitted some movement for repositioning up to 3 minutes after placement). The edges were tidied up with coved beading.

That coved beading was a real pipper to make and fit as it was so tiny. The drawers were for the most part easy to fit. However, the compound curves behind the drawer fronts and at the top of the mirror (which curves to match the bow drawers) required extra attention.

The jewelry trays are easy to lift out of the drawer. The idea for fitting them came from the sliding tills in tool chests. To do this with these drawers, the inside of the drawer sides was squared up with filler pieces. To ensure that the lower drawer does not slide away from the front position, clips were added to the rear (they are shelf rests and just push into the sides). These can be removed if needed. There is now hidden space behind the lower tray.






The third area involves the mirror recess. This was also covered in leather …






Here is one example of the coved beading around the mirror (so difficult to photograph owing to the reflections) ..






And so we come to the end of this build. All-in-all, it stretched over 18 months (closer to 14 months of actual build time on weekends), which is my longest project to date.






Thanks for looking.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Eric The Viking (11 Jul 2016)

"Thanks for looking" ???

Are you kidding, Derek? 

it's been informative, enjoyable and wonderful to read. Most interestingly that you saw fit to share your thought processes, too, 

I'll never come close to that level of skill but all the same it's been most encouraging.

Thank you.

E.


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## SurreyHills (11 Jul 2016)

Week, what a great build. Thanks for such an informative read. Your wife must be really pleased as the finished article is a real beaut. Simply stunning.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Harbo (11 Jul 2016)

Beautiful - stunning work!

Rod


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## Fitzroy (11 Jul 2016)

Wow, just wow!


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## Bm101 (11 Jul 2016)

Yeh it's alright....

Kidding of course. Work of this standard is just a pleasure to see. To be guided through the process is a fantastic bonus. Many thanks for sharing the journey Derek.
Regards 
Chris


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## AndyT (11 Jul 2016)

Thanks from me too, and many congratulations. 

Amongst many other things that I have learned from this thread is that to do difficult work well needs patience and practical intelligence. I'm not about to embark on anything at this level but I've enjoyed coming along on the ride and sharing your thoughts on how to achieve it.

What's next?!


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## Woodmonkey (11 Jul 2016)

Cracking stuff Derek well done, a true heirloom piece. Thanks for sharing.


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## thetyreman (12 Jul 2016)

nice chest! that's a great achievement, hopefully one day I will build something like this, thanks for inspiring me


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## sundaytrucker (13 Jul 2016)

incredible thread and piece of furniture. thank you for sharing.


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## CStanford (14 Jul 2016)

It's a stunner for sure. Precision cabinetmaking on display.


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## Beau (14 Jul 2016)

Oh that's fabulous Derek =D>


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## n0legs (15 Jul 2016)

Thanks Derek =D> 
It's been a pleasure to watch you build this lovely piece.
What's next


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