# My first attempt at SU



## adzeman (13 Apr 2010)

One of the goodies I bought at Alexander Palace this year was a Camvac Vacuum system complete with tubing. 
A conclusion I reluctantly came to was to fit it successfully I am going to have to put on an extension 
So out with the measuring tapes to take measurements and plan the moves. 
I will be on vacation for the next three weeks so instead of reading a book why not learn SU?' 

This is my first attempt. 







Being a CAD user I had to do some re-thinking, the main one thinking in 3D for a start. 

Reading some of the threads in the Forum, advice given keeping items as components. Struggling with this. 

One of the training videos advises CAD drawings can be imported. Struggling with this also. 

I think the advice is for version 7 which you have to pay for. 

haven't searched the web for any downloads to add to the library yet. 

First impressions are I dent think I could build from SU but it is good for demonstrating the design. SWMBO understands the concept better than a CAD drawing. 

Well, heres to a three week learning curve.


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## Chris Knight (13 Apr 2010)

You can import DWG/DXF into Sketchup Free edition but hurry for the importer is to be discontinued and won't be available for the next free edition

It is called "DWG/DXF import plugin for SketchUp 7.1 (Free)" at this link
http://sketchup.google.com/download/plugins.html#dwg

Note that the 7.1 version is available in both a Free and a Pro version (the latter costs!).


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## adzeman (13 Apr 2010)

Thanks Chris,
I will do that straight away. Pleased to see version seven is free.

Regards


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## RobertMP (13 Apr 2010)

I came to sketchup from AutoCad and it was a real struggle as the approach is quite different. I keep banging on about components as they are the rough equivalent of layers in autocad. They let you keep things separate but positioned together and allow you to hide bits while you work on others. You can also mirror and scale components and all will change when you edit one - or 'make one unique' and edit that without changing the others.

Sketchup is hard to get you head round coming from cad but it can do fast and it can do precise at the same time.


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## RogerS (13 Apr 2010)

Components are key to understanding SU. But they can catch you out. I am indebted to DaveR for this simple analogy. Think of a component as a shrink-wrapped sandwich. If you turn something into a component then you have effectively wrapped it in cling film. If you subsequently decide to do any work on it then you need to unwrap the clingfilm.....Edit Component.

I am by no means an expert ...probably Grasshopper stage. But I can now see the power of it. My goal is to create a master traditional box frame in SU that I can adjust for size to suit the desired opening. I can then read all my dimensions including joinery off of this 'adjusted' master. Then I will have masters of different configuration sashes ..eg 12 x 12, 6 x 6. I will choose the appropriate sash master to suit the frame, alter the size to match et voila...all my dimensions will come off of this.

I'd also like to publicly give my thanks to DaveR for helping me climb all those mountains.


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## SketchUp Guru (13 Apr 2010)

Mike, your model looks good at least in the image you've shown.

As to the component thing, the others have covered it well. i'll just add that in most cases, make components of things that would be single pieces in real life. For example the roof trusses in your addition. If they are something you would buy already assembled (maybe made of steel and already welded up) draw one and make it a component. Then copy it (Ctrl+Move or Option+Move) to make the others.

As Robert alluded to, the only way to keep entities separate from each other is to make components. Layers don't do anything to keep entities separated from each other.

FWIW, the free version of SU7 did support DXF/DWG import but not the free version of 7.1. The versions are distinctly different in that as well as a number of other areas.

Roger, thank you for the nice words. I am glad to be able to help you out. Let me know when you're ready for the next session.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Chris Knight (13 Apr 2010)

Roger,
First off - yes Dave R is a master and I too offer thanks to him!

Second - to create dynamic components as opposed to using them, you need the Pro version.

Of course with several models and a preparedness to adjust stuff you can do what you suggest without although it would be a lot less neat.


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## SketchUp Guru (13 Apr 2010)

Chris, thank you, too.

I agree with you that Dynamic Components are neat but if you want to have joinery shown correctly _and_ want a proper cutlist, Dynamic components don't seem to be the way to go.


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## adzeman (13 Apr 2010)

Thanks guy's for the constructive comments. I downloaded SU Saturday night and sat through watching the videos. Some were pretty exciting especially the building a model from a photograph. That was outstanding to say the least. 
One of the annoying features I experience when working on SU is the object suddenly starts disappearing into the horizon on its own. Its akin to playing a Star Trek game negotiating the Enterprise through the asteroid belt when suddenly your attacked on the Starboard bow by Klingons. 

I retired this year as a Local Authority Surveyor and one of my jobs was working with Social Services Occupational Therapist designing Disabled Adaptations. The O.T.'s were spread from Lewisham to Dover, Rochester to Brighton and the best way of sending drawings was by email. Social Services could not afford CAD or what to do with it when they got it. So I filtered it through on Excel. Over the 20 years I was doing this I built up an extensive Library of equipment. When I have become more proficient I hope to have a go at turning these into SU drawings. Not certain at present if the O.T.'s can work out their ergonomics using SU? but I will give it a good shot because from their point of view its free. 

Thanks for your comments Dave R. I worked out early on your the Guru. I did make those trusses into components but could not get them into a library. I have my components on separate sheets. Did you notice I had lost the inner skin of the front elevation wall. That is why tonight I am working on discovering layers (hopefully just like CAD) 

Nice to chat guy's its seems theres some form of bond going between the drawing fraternity. 

Regards


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## SketchUp Guru (13 Apr 2010)

Mike, the image is too small for me to see that anything is missing but I'm sure you can get it back.

To save components you've drawn into a library, open the Components browser (under the Window menu) Click on the little + icon in the upper right corner to open the secondary pane. Set the upper pane to In Model using the little drop down menu. Set the lower pane to the desired library. If you want to create a new local collection (library) click on the black arrow that points out to the right and create the new local collection.

Click and drag the thumbnail for the component from the upper pane (In Model library) to the lower pane. Done.

I would suggest that for components you are making to fit a specific project you make them in the model rather than in a separate file. Make them in place so you don't have to move them later. This will reduce the chances for error and in general make it less work to draw the completed model.


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## adzeman (13 Apr 2010)

Thanks Dave, I am a bit tired after doing a session on layering so I will give that a whirl tomorrow. 

This is how far I progressed tonight. 






Regards

or as Sam Pepys said "and so to bed"


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## Shultzy (13 Apr 2010)

adzeman, "the object suddenly starts disappearing into the horizon on its own" usually happens when you orbit the model and you are a bit to close to it. The "zoom to extents" icon will bring everything you have drawn back to the screen area.
The best way I find to tackle sketchup models it to create them by creating components of the wood you would buy to make it. Then build up the model as you would construct it in the workshop.

The 3D warehouse has many models you can download and take apart to see how they were constructed.


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## Chris Knight (14 Apr 2010)

adzeman":mjigfpoz said:


> One of the annoying features I experience when working on SU is the object suddenly starts disappearing into the horizon on its own. Its akin to playing a Star Trek game negotiating the Enterprise through the asteroid belt when suddenly your attacked on the Starboard bow by Klingons.



It is useful to save a scene of your most useful views as you proceed, that way if you manage to orbit into a time warp, you can hit one of your scene tabs to return to a view you saved.

(Note that this does not save a snapshot of your geometry so model changes are not reverted - its only the view with its various settings like perspective, shadows etc that are saved/reverted).


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## miles_hot (14 Apr 2010)

I'm interested in the comment about layers - I use layers to hide stuff to make selecting the target easier. So for instance I will tend to have comments and dimensions in two layers which I came make invisible. I have also done the same sort of thing for walls, beams etc which get in the way of selecting the group etc that I want.

Is this a silly way of doing it or have I misunderstood what you're saying?

Miles


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## RobertMP (14 Apr 2010)

Hiding comment text and dimensions is about the only use i can think of for layers in sketchup. they are not like layers in CAD and caused me endless confusion when i first used sketchup.

This is how I hide things to work on others....Go to the 'window' menu at the top and select preferences. Click on shortcuts. Scroll down the list to Edit/hide and add H as an assigned key.
Now go to Edit/Unhide/All and assign U as the shortcut key. You can do any others you use a lot too while you are there 

Once back in your model (using the selection arrow tool) single click on any component and hit H on the keyboard and it is gone. Click some other component or drag a box to select a few at once and hit H and they are gone too. When you want them back hit U.

The other shortcut key assignment I use a lot is E which is set to zoom/extents. Once you have zoomed in too much and lost the plot just hit E and get back to a normal view


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## adzeman (14 Apr 2010)

Wow! who do I respond to first? 

Thanks Shultzy, I am so glad I am not the only one that has objects disappearing into the horizon. Thats a good tip and it works for me. 

I have not had the opportunity yet to do any downloading as today will be spent packing and vacuuming out the car. 

Hi Chris, another useful tip, I have to tell you I am not the worlds best saver. I tend to get engrossed loose all track of time and then lose all the work that session. 

That leads me on to Miles with the layers. I agree and is why I stopped drawing and concentrated on layering. I don't think it is a silly way of doing it and you did understand what I was saying. I was so miffed about losing that internal skin and the work needed to de-construct the model to put it back again. 

I am trying my hardest to put CAD at the back of my mind but its a bit like when excel changed their menu's in the late 90's. Your brain automatically goes to whats programmed. Getting there though. 

I do like the wy assignment and I didn't know the shortcut assignment E but I do now. 

Thanks Guy's thats a good start and can now start planning how I can extent the shop. 

Regards


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## SketchUp Guru (14 Apr 2010)

Layers are used to control visibilty of entities within the drawing. They work for components as well as text and dimensions. I create layers for the various parts in a my models _after_ I've completed the model. Using a chest of drawers for example, I'll put the top on one layer, the sides on another the dust panels on a third and so on. Then, when I go through and make the desired scenes, I can turn layers on and off as desired for each scene. Of course dimensions and text go on layers (if I use them which isn't often since I use Layout for that part of it) as do dashed lines

Sometimes I need to make modifications and turning off the unneeded layers can help unclutter the view.

Robert's method of using the Hide function works but you have little control of what gets unhidden. It's either the last stuff you hid or all. Sometimes I want to see hidden and softened edges when I am working. To do that, one needs to View>Hidden Geometry. All of the hidden components are then shown as a mesh unless you also hide under Components in the Model Info dialog. I don't do that though because my method of work usually requires references to those other components.

Layers are also useful if you want to create animations or if you want to show design options. Suppose you want to show a cabinet with three or four different style doors. You could associate the components for each style of door with a different layer and then switch between them for the various scenes.

Here is what Google has to say about layers in SketchUp. I think it is well worth the read.



> First things first: by default, a SketchUp model has one layer, Layer 0 (zero), which is the base layer. You can't delete or rename Layer 0, and you should *always draw your individual entities on Layer 0 and leave them there.*
> 
> The main difference you'll notice is that entities associated with different layers in SketchUp still intersect each other. For this reason, it's almost *always best to draw all your individual entities on Layer 0 and leave them there*. Then, if you want to use layers to organize your model, you can turn individual entities into groups or components, and then *associate different layers with those groups or components*. To add additional layers:
> 
> ...


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## RobertMP (14 Apr 2010)

I've stayed so far away from layers since they confused me at the start that I'd never really thought too much about them before 

I can see they are useful for creating views for options etc. Still think my way is easiest for the average furniture item I may draw up in order to make it. I used to have a show hidden shortcut key set but rarely used it so I don't bother now. Dragging a box from right to left over stuff you want out of the way for a while is so quick and easy I find a simple unhide all is not a problem. Drawing a whole workshop might be a different matter and benefit from the easy hiding of a selected bunch of components by using layers.


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## SketchUp Guru (14 Apr 2010)

That's the nice thing about SketchUp. You can do many things to suit your needs. Since I am typically creating plans from which others are going to build projects, I tend to show more detail than I might for something I am going to build for myself. Using Layers and Scenes to help organize the SketchUp model is, for me, a very powerful thing.


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## adzeman (22 Apr 2010)

Still on Hols but this is as far as I have gone. Need to be back home to progress.






Had problems positioning item in space. There was one instance where I was trying to position a wall cupboard could I get it to where I wanted? no so I gave up. Next day went straight to it bish bosh went to its correct place first time, straight away. I have no idea what I was doing or what I finally did.

Regards


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## adzeman (22 Apr 2010)

Another attempt at posting

Regards


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## SketchUp Guru (22 Apr 2010)

From what little can be seen in your images, it looks nice. How are you going about making the image and why is there so much white space?

As to placing components easily and accurately, that comes with learning how to use the Move tool properly. If you're importing components from the 3D Warehouse, you also need to consider that their insertion points are frequently not located to make placing them easy. You can fix that of course but sometimes it can be a big PIA. It depends upon how the person modeling the thing went about it. Very often I find it easier to draw something from scratch than to fix the models I find on the 3D Warehouse.

Out of curiosity, how big is the SKP file for this model?


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## Chris Knight (22 Apr 2010)

Are you very constrained for space? The sink and the fridge are not workshop items in my view unless you are perhaps preparing biological specimens!


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## adzeman (29 Apr 2010)

Thanks again for the comments.
I did this post from an internet café’ and was a bit rushed. I got the size of the picture wrong which is why I posted two pictures. The first one (small) was posted through Flicka at the usual medium size and the second at the large size. Should have re-sized the original.
The problem occurred because I tried to put a border and title on to the drawing and for this I used CAD. Further, when I used SU to annotate the annotations did not stay with the object being annotated. More practice is required on annotation and importing CAD. It was my first attempt. I was the CAD importation that created the white areas.













The SU size is 6,194 KB I am not sure what the PIA is?

Yes I am constrained for space, I would like larger. My first home in West Yorkshire was quite large. Moving down to the South we downsized due to house value differences and then our present home is a bungalow and even smaller. The workshop was an existing 18’0” x 8’ 0” shed and stretches straight across the bottom of the garden with 2’ 6” either side. The fridge is also a freezer and quite full. The top fridge is full of beer cans not body parts!. The sink is a useful item in the workshop cleaning brushes etc or, when obtaining a cut is good for cleansing the wound. Our kitchen is too small to take the dryer so this is a compromise with my wife and the washer is temporary and will go into the garage. The dish washer is being used at my youngest daughters. I have a bench saw which is not shown here. If it was bigger SWMBO would probably put a bed down there. I manage and it’s a good retreat with either the radio or MP3 player blasting out.

I have put the workshop drawings to one side now as practice is the order of the day. I am impressed with what’s available on the 3D Warehouse and I have found deconstructing some of the models very useful and a tribute to the modellers. Yes, the intersection points are very varied and yes if I can, try to draw my own models. This leads me on to my latest training in practicing drawing buildings.
My first effort used what I call the Christmas tree method. Building up a basic model and developing the features, as you would with pencil and paper. Not to be recommended except for the most primitive drawing. What I have found is the building/object needs to be broken down into component parts and then assembled like LEGO. Decisions made to Group or make into a component. I downloaded some doors off the 3D Warehouse and struggled in adapting, sizing, positioning that I drew my own starting with the basic door. First lesson I should have grouped not as a component.
Having copied the master proceeded to change to the next style. As I changed the new model found the original master changed as well. Lesson learnt and rectified.

Christmas tree method








Lego method






Photo of actual property






Created models











A requirement now is to do the same with the door furniture. 
(These are 6’ 8”, 2’ 8” doors in old money)

Going back to the workshop and making ones own components here is one of my vice which I did last night including a photo as a comparison? (took about 2 Hours)








photo of vice






Regards


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## Chris Knight (29 Apr 2010)

Mike,
I may be misinterpreting what you are saying but to use your terminology, I think the Christmas tree method should not be overlooked - I suggest you look at DaveR's stuff on the Taunton site wrt drawing components in situ. it's more accurate and faster than the Lego method for most purposes.

I started with the Lego method having come to SU from a history based solids modeller and in fact this background kept me away from SU until I made a real effort to learn it


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## SketchUp Guru (29 Apr 2010)

" First lesson I should have grouped not as a component. " 

Please explain. I've been using SketchUp for more than six years and have never found a single good reason to use a group instead of a component.

Chris, thank you.


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## wizer (29 Apr 2010)

Ok, well I really don't get the difference between Christmas Tree and Lego?? Can someone explain?


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## Chris Knight (30 Apr 2010)

Tom,
Say you want to draw a table with four legs, rails joining them and a top.

Lego:
Draw one leg, make three copies and place them as intended for the table
Draw - separate from the legs - a couple of rails (assuming the table is rectangular and not square), copy them and then place them where they are supposed to go 
Draw the top and place that.

Each placement of the various components requires use of the move tool (and you can bet that the component axes will become muddled in the process of creating and placing the separate components!) Also, you have had to be sure that the dimensions of the various components conform to the intended design in some way. With a complex model, this can result in lots of tape measure/dimensioning work.

Xmas tree:

Draw one leg, MIRROR it to the four corners.
Draw one rail in situ between a pair of legs. MIRROR it to the opposite side. If the table is square, ROTATE copy it to the next position etc.
Draw a rectangle or square on top of the legs, Push/Pull to thickness and scale to final size.

This is quicker, easier and ensures component axes are in the proper places.


NOTE: I am assuming that the terms Lego and xmas tree apply here - I didn't invent them(!) however, the two different methods are what people commonly adopt. 

I started with the xmas tree method but in total ignorance of the way geometry was handled in SU and thus ended up as most beginners do with all sorts of rubbish that got connected and shouldn't be, etc.etc. Then I learnt about components and went overboard drawing each as a library of bits that I had to assemble into the final model. I did this for far too long.

Then I learnt how to use SU properly :lol:


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## wizer (30 Apr 2010)

Cheers Chris. I think I get it. The Lego method is the only way I know. I prefer it because I get to build the piece before I build it, if that makes sense. I can work out a lot of the pitfalls in a design that way.


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## SketchUp Guru (30 Apr 2010)

Tom, building the model via the Lego method as Chris describes, is not only a lot more work, it also has the potential to allow errors to creep in to model. In my opinion, the SketchUP model is where you should be eliminating errors, not inducing them.

With the Xmas tree method, you place the first major elements, the legs in Chris's example, and fit the rest of the elements to them. If you place the legs accurately in the beginning and draw the aprons to fit between them, there is no problem with retaining accurate dimensions and you don't need to actually know a lot of the dimensions to draw those parts. You'll let SketchUp tell you those dimensions later.

The nice thing is that you can build either way as you choose.

For me, time is money now for much of the drawing I do. I need to use efficient methods to get the job done because I frequently have 3 or more jobs going at the same time with tight deadlines.


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## wizer (30 Apr 2010)

To be honest I'm still not clear on the difference between the two options. If I was to create a table, I would draw one leg, copy it out to the next corner, then scale it to make sure it's in the right orientation, then I'd select the two legs and copy them to make four legs, using scale again to get the right orientation. To get the rails, I would draw a rectangle between the two legs and, make it a component, pull it out to the right depth, then repeat the same copy/scale/orientation process for the rest of the rails. 

I do like to draw in the joinery, as I said above, it helps me build it within the software to _identify _problems, not induce them. When building the actual furniture piece (not that that happens often), I would then build taking measurements from the work itself, rather than rigidly working from the sketchup drawing.


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## SketchUp Guru (30 Apr 2010)

Tom, it sounds to me as if you're using the Xmas tree method Chris described. The Lego method is more like make the blocks and then put them all in place.

Drawing the joinery is a good idea for a number of reasons. It helps you make sure that your cutlist is telling you the real size of the parts, you can see if there are going to be conflicts that need to be dealt with (colliding tenons, for example) and it gives you an opportunity to think through the processes in the shop so you can be more efficient in your work when you get there. Drawing your model also helps you thinking about things like which order to do things in. Do you cut the tapers on the legs before or after you cut the mortises? And that sort of stuff.


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## RobertMP (30 Apr 2010)

Can't say I'd heard these terms before but I'm a tree builder 

I like to use what I've drawn for one component as a 'former' for some of the detail on the mating part. If you don't open a component for editing you can draw over some of it with new lines and they stay on the outside ready to become a new mating component.

Using the table leg example if I drew a tenon on the end of a rail I'd use it to easily draw the mortice on the leg. To do that they need to be in the right relationship to each other not drawn separately off in space somewhere on the drawing.


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## SketchUp Guru (30 Apr 2010)

I hadn't heard those terms before either, Robert.

The other day I helped a very nice fellow with a model he was struggling with. He had two components, one of which had a tenon on it. He was trying to cut the mating through mortice on the other piece. You could see the end of the tenon on bottom of the component receiving the mortice.

The easy way to cut the mortice would be to open the component for editing, trace the end of the tenon with the Rectangle tool and use Push/Pull to push the rectangle's face through the component. In this case though, the rectangle did not divide the bottom face into two regions so the mortice could not be made.

Close examination of the model revealed that the bottom face of the component getting the mortice was 0.004138mm away from the end of the tenon. It wasn't easily seen but it made all the difference in the world as to whether or not the rectangle was getting drawn on the face or not. It turned out the component getting the mortice was drawn separately and then moved into place and it wasn't moved correctly. In working through the drawing process, I showed how drawing the component in place on the other component eliminated that problem.


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## adzeman (5 May 2010)

Thanks Chris you hit the nail on the head and described what I meant better than I did. The 1st method was a model on to which I hung components, the 2nd I grouped components together in blocks which made editing easier. I found on the first method when editing I would change somthing and then find it had altered somthing else as well.

I think you have reverted to the first method due to you becoming more skilled with Sketch Up and therefore not requiring to do much if any editing.

What I have found which is fantastic! is I have imported CAD drawings and built off them.


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