# How to handle this estate agent situation?



## BearTricks (29 Mar 2016)

Hi, not been on here for a while, but I tend to get good advice so I thought I'd post.

Basically I'm at the end of my rope with our rented house. I've posted about issues with neighbours before, as well as the terrible heating but over christmas the bad weather managed to make a mess of the roof. It made existing leaks worse and created new ones. At present a wall in one of the bedrooms is covered in damp. It's an old house, but I think it's had it's fair share of cowboy builders performing their magic on it. I don't think our landlord is inherently a bad person, but he's a doctor, he lives in Scotland while we're in the North West, and I think he just sees the house as a moneymaker on the side without realising the time and work that needs to go in to managing a property. I'm tired of pumping money in to somewhere that is stressful to be in.

Anyway, the garden is also the local school kids' favourite trash can, particularly since the council removed a bin from the top of the public path that runs past us. The council cited budget cuts. In addition, there's a couple of drunk blokes who think it's hilarious to knock our rubbish bins over as they stumble past the house at 4am every saturday. My girlfriend asked them to stop the first time, which just made it worse. The thing is, they haven't seen me, so they're only aware that they're essentially waking a 25 year old girl up in the early hours with the sound of smashing glass and loud banging. They apparently can't make the connection that that could be traumatic. According to her, they looked like they were in their early 30s. I'd ring the police, but aside from staking out our bins every weekend I'm sure they can't do anything. I've already sent forms off to to the council recording everything and considering that they don't have the budget for a bin I'm not surprised that nothing came of it.

Back to the point at hand, a suitable house has come up for rent nearby, which doesn't happen very often. It's cheaper than ours and we know the person who currently lives there, so naturally we have seen it already. We rang the estate agents up and asked if we could apply. They seemed to take offense to the idea that we had already seen it without them, which I don't think was unreasonable on our part. They started making excuses like we couldn't move in because there's no pets allowed and we have a dog (The person who lives there has cats and dogs, and the estate agents even installed a cat flap on the landlord's behalf), eventually they just said that there's a list of 11 people waiting to see it and that she'd put us on the buttocks end of that list.

I would generally do things above board if I wasn't so desperate. I'm happy to put up six months rent in advance if that would get us to the top of the list. The landlord is apparently a nice old bloke and I'd even meet with him to explain our circumstances. I actually couldn't sleep last night because my blood was boiling at the idea of these oiks messing with the bins again. Knowing estate agents I wouldn't be surprised if they disregarded us just to spite us. We weren't even trying to get round paying fees, I'd happily pay the fees even if they didn't show us around.

So, does anyone have any advice on how to go about this without drawing the ire of the estate agents? I am aware that I'm trying to be somewhat selfish with this, since people have already registered interest, but then again house hunting is supposed to be competitive anyway. Like I said, I'd be happy to wait and do everything by the book, but I'm sure the stress of living here has effected my health, at least and I think we really need to get out of this slum soon.

Also, please feel free to call me out if I'm being a nob. My judgement is probably clouded somewhat.


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## monkeybiter (29 Mar 2016)

Could you contact the new landlord directly, introduced by your friends the current tenants perhaps, and explain your situation and the offer to pay 6 months in advance. I'd have jumped at that back when I was renting my house out.


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## profchris (29 Mar 2016)

If you know the landlord or can get an introduction (and importantly recommendation) from the current tenant then why not go direct? The estate agents have made it clear they see you as a last resort in any case. But without some kind of introduction or prior relationship, I'd expect a landlord not to want to talk to you directly as the point of the agents is to find a good shortlist of tenants rather than the landlord having to do this him or herself.

What happens with the agents is a matter between the landlord and the agents (they'd probably demand their fee in any case, and might get it if their board was the reason you approached the landlord). Nothing to do with you. If the landlord likes you and wants you as tenant, the agents will just have to live with that. 

In theory, even if you annoy the agents they still have a legal duty to put any offer you make to the landlord, but I wouldn't rely on that (it's a duty owed to the landlord, not to you). The downside for you if you do annoy the agents is that they might be reluctant to consider you for other properties.


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## NikNak (29 Mar 2016)

Speaking as a landlord myself, i'd be VERY ANNOYED with the estate agent for NOT informing me of the the fact they have someone willing to pay up front NOW..!!!

I'm presuming the (new) property is 'managed' by the agent, and not just a 'tenant find' basis by the way they are treating you.... which ever way, this shouldn't have any impact on the fact you are interested in the property.

Queue jumping or not.... would you do the same if it meant you getting 'the job' rather than the other guy..? 

The way i see it, all you're done is researched and shown interest. The estate shouldn't be putting you at the end of any 'list'. It's not _their_ property, they are merely an agent, agreed with the landlords interests at heart, but ultimately its the landlords choice.... NOT THEIRS..!!!

Oh..... and just to let you know.... we got fed up with the landlord 'choosing' the tenant for us (based on 'searches'). One tenant we had to take to court for non payment of rent for very nearly 18 months (yes... we did manage to get it back via her guarantor... he wasn't a happy bunny being dragged to court..!). So now we just use them as a tenant find only and manage the property(s) ourselves. And now WE INSIST on meeting all new tenants first..!!

Hope this helps.....



Nick


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## finneyb (29 Mar 2016)

Landlord direct - and don't hang about I bet the Estate Agent has a friend looking for a house.
If need be, but only if absolutely necessary, increase your offer a little direct to the landlord if the Estate Agent does have a friend in need

HTH

Brian


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## BearTricks (29 Mar 2016)

Thanks for the quick replies. I think we'll ask the current tenant to let the landlord know we're interested and that we're happy to put the money up front.

Another issue is that I'm still jobless after my voluntary redundancy, but financially (barring anything completely unexpected) I could probably pay rent something in excess of 12 months without stretching myself too much, but of course I plan to be back in work much sooner. My girlfriend is making enough to cover the rent by herself, however, and that's without me paying my half. I don't know how much bearing that would have on things, but I can't imagine it would be too much of a problem if the money's there. I'd probably pay the six months up front out of my pocket and get her half of that off her monthly.


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## NikNak (29 Mar 2016)

I agree with Brian.... sounds very much like the agent has a 'friend' who wants it.... or dare i even suggest they're getting a 'backhander' from someone who wants first dibbs....



Re the property you're in now..... sorry, but it sounds disgusting. We try to work on the principle 'would I rent/buy it'.? if not then its not good enough to rent/buy. And when you do eventually leave i would sincerely hope you get ALL your deposit back (assuming you leave it in an 'as found' condition..). Start taking photographs now (if you've not already started) as proof of what the property is like to live in on a daily basis. So come the time of getting deposits back you are ready and armed with all the information you need. And yes... we've had to 'argue' with tenants about deductions from deposits (which should be held with a deposit holding service by the way...)


Feel free to PM me if you want/need any further advice


Nick


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## AJB Temple (29 Mar 2016)

Take some care here. The agent could well be entirely legit and protecting the new landlords interests. A lot depends on what you have said to the agent but this appears to be the story as an impartial person will see it:

You have a problem with the house you live in and are very vocal about that
You wish to break a tenancy agreement, which presumably requires notice and may create a reference problem
You are unemployed, which is likely to put you well down the list of desirable tenants
Six months up front is not necessarily that helpful if you then default. 12 months might swing it. 
You are not married, so the new landlord is dealing with people with no legal connection and who could split up easily, leaving the property unaffordable for the remaining one
You wish to jump a queue that the estate agent says is there, and are willing to by-pass the agent to do that. 

The agent has a duty to find good tenants. Looking at the dispassionate list above, they will advise the landlord to take someone else. So in my opinion your best bet would be to befriend the estate agent, maximise your charm offensive (or get your girlfriend to do it) and keep your options open by looking for other houses too.


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## NikNak (29 Mar 2016)

I also agree with everything that AJB has mentioned above.... your ARE in a very tricky situation.... no job, (possibly) on benefits, single male....


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## BearTricks (29 Mar 2016)

I'm aware that I probably don't look ideal. I'm not on benefits (I think I have too much in savings to qualify), so I'm just living off my redundancy payment which was generous.

I came from a fairly respectable job and I have decent qualifications and am actively looking for work. My girlfriend is in work, and in a good job. I think she'd probably be the best point of contact because of this. She makes enough that she could rent the house by herself. It's a small house and the rent is very cheap.

We haven't actually mentioned this to the agent. The only thing we mentioned is that we're already familiar with the house and that we'd like to apply. The lady on the phone seemed to take offense at the fact that we had already seen the house, which isn't that unusual since we know the current tenant.

In terms of our current property, we originally signed a six month contract and have been renting on a monthly basis since. I agree that a reference may be an issue, but we have raised any problems with the landlord, and I have kept records of as much correspondence as I could. I'm not sure how much the landlord would try to hold the damp and other issues over our heads, but as far as I'm aware we have no legal responsibility for it as we have not actively been making it worse.


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## DiscoStu (29 Mar 2016)

Contact the landlord directly. 6 months is a huge deposit so I'd offer less to start with 3 months should be fine. Assuming the landlord has no issues with your friends then I'm sure a personal recommendation from them will sort you. I wonder if the estate agent has a friend that wants it? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Rorschach (29 Mar 2016)

Get in touch with the landlord direct if you can. Letting agents are a pain in the ar**, they like to act like little hitlers and throw their weight around.


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## AJB Temple (29 Mar 2016)

Again - be careful. The new landlord probably already has a contract with the estate agent and they will insist on payment whether they are used or not. It is necessary for you to be charming to all parties. As your g'f is in employment I would tend to use her to front the deal. Go into the agent, don't ring up. Fine to be friendly with the landlord but he has employed an agent for a reason and you are at risk of burning your bridges.


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## RobinBHM (29 Mar 2016)

It seems like the estate agent is being evasive because she has interpreted the situation as though you are trying to go direct to the landlord. Being middle men, estate agents get most upset if somebody tries to cut them out of the equation. Its a shame you didnt enquire before the property became advertised. 

If there is a list of interested parties, I would expect the existing tenant would have already been told about impending viewings, so it may be worth sounding out your friend. 

You could also chat to the landlord if he is willing, theres a chance he may agree if you offer payment in advance or even a slightly higher rent but be careful and be clear you will be dealing with the agent. If so you can then go in and see the estate agent and tell them you know the property well as you are friends with the tenant, are keen to rent and could they put an offer forward to the landlord (dont tell them you have discussed it directly).


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## BearTricks (29 Mar 2016)

We have no problem with paying the estate agents their finding fee or whatever they're expecting. I've dealt with estate agents a few times in the past and every time they surprise me with what awful human beings they are. I don't know what it is about the job that attracts them to it, or turns decent people slimy.


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## AJB Temple (29 Mar 2016)

Bear. To get what you want you really need to put this negative attitude aside and ;earn to manipulate situations to your advantage. I am not a fan of all estate agents either, but you are basing this on one phone call. The agent needs to be careful as they must weed out tenants who will not care for properties or default on payment. You are assuming that they have some nefarious motive, but there is no evidence at all for this: they are likely to have numerous people on their books looking for houses. There is no upside for you in alienating them, and significant downside potential. Anyway, I have said all that I can to try to be helpful and wish you luck.


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## BearTricks (29 Mar 2016)

Thanks for your help AJB.


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## Lons (29 Mar 2016)

I agree with all that's been said.
I had an issue with one estate agent many years ago who did an awful job selling my house, strong words were uttered and I sold it myself but had to fork out a small % of his fee as there was a board in my garden and I flatley refused to pay all of his fee which he pressed hard for. Eventually he accepted my offer. However although there are many who give the industry a bad name they are not all the "slimy" people you think they are.

Personally I would without doubt approach the owner direct or through a friend if possible but I would also go in person, with your partner to meet the agent and show them that you would be reputable tenants and not trying to deprive them of commission. I'd also advise not going in to detail about your current house problems as you might be perceived as a moaner who will be a hassle for them.

Much better face to face than over the 'phone and a belt and braces approach never hurts.

Bob


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## fred55 (30 Mar 2016)

As a Landlord who also like this forum - I would see the landlord direct (jump the queue) have in hand reference from his present tenants and offer in 6 months in advance and explain why you want the property. As someone nicely put it I'm a typical nice old bloke kinda Landlord who would be swain at the chance of 6 month in advance and good tenant. And would put a rocket up the Jacksey of the Estate agent for not informing me. Deal direct most of us want good tenants benefits or not; Don't believe the TV programs and London based rubbish. This is my 4th job ex miner ex buildings ex teacher now Landlord still trying to retire.


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## Duncan A (31 Mar 2016)

BT
I don't know your circumstances or anything about the area where you live, but it is clear that the agents are bad'uns, or they would have told the landlord to fix the maintenance issues with your present house (there's not much they can do about the social issues). You have a contract that says you will pay a set amount of money and the landlord or his representative will provide you with decent accommodation that meets the regulations. 

Given that, I think I would try and find a house through another rental agent. The small ones can often be much better to deal with than the estate agents and I would vet the agent as much as any potential properties to be sure of finding a house you can live in and an agent you can trust to fulfil their part of the deal on behalf of the landlord.

Consider paying more if you are able to. Although that might be painful, it should raise you out of the bottom end of the market where there are plenty of dodgy landlords and agents who do minimal maintenance and frequently have houses in areas where there are social issues.

Good luck!
Duncan


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## BearTricks (10 Apr 2016)

Quick update.

The current tenant moved out a few days ago, the estate agent went round on the day to check everything out and let slip that they'd had someone lined up all along. Apparently it sounded as if they were 'doing someone a favour', so maybe a friend or relative.

Whoever called it, well done. I'm still not sure why they couldn't just say that there was already someone lined up though.


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## AJB Temple (10 Apr 2016)

They did say: from your first post: "eventually they just said that there's a list of 11 people waiting to see it". Since you had no connection with the property whatsoever, from the agent's perspective it was not your business. 

Surely it would be normal for an agent to "have someone lined up". Tenant gives notice as per contract. Agent tells people on his waiting list and / or advertises. landlord wants no gap between tenants. Agent wants to earn fees and achieves no gap - as is his job. Entire chain is happy. You are just not part of that chain.


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## woodpig (10 Apr 2016)

finneyb":1ep191go said:


> Landlord direct - and don't hang about I bet the Estate Agent has a friend looking for a house.
> If need be, but only if absolutely necessary, increase your offer a little direct to the landlord if the Estate Agent does have a friend in need
> 
> HTH
> ...



Yes, given the quick fire "excuses" given by the EA it sounds like they had a mate lined up for it as you already mentioned it was cheaper than yours. Common enough practice I would have thought.


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## AJB Temple (10 Apr 2016)

Despite my posts above I have no time at all for most estate agents. I once wanted to buy a water mill, including the mill pond, for conversion. I was very friendly with the owner and (I eventually discovered) he wanted to sell it to me. I made an offer, which was a good offer (in fact the highest). The agent did not put this offer forward and the property was sold to a developer friend of the agent. The seller (who was getting on) asked me a fe weeks later why I hadn't bought it....He was annoyed and I was annoyed. The estate agent got sacked after the vendor and I jointly complained, but it was too late to change the deal. Crooked.


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## Wuffles (10 Apr 2016)

AJB Temple":265brxw4 said:


> Despite my posts above I have no time at all for most estate agents. I once wanted to buy a water mill, including the mill pond, for conversion. I was very friendly with the owner and (I eventually discovered) he wanted to sell it to me. I made an offer, which was a good offer (in fact the highest). The agent did not put this offer forward and the property was sold to a developer friend of the agent. The seller (who was getting on) asked me a fe weeks later why I hadn't bought it....He was annoyed and I was annoyed. The estate agent got sacked after the vendor and I jointly complained, but it was too late to change the deal. Crooked.



B̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶e̶s̶t̶a̶t̶e̶ ̶a̶g̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶u̶n̶r̶e̶g̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶p̶i̶l̶l̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶s̶o̶c̶i̶e̶t̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶r̶u̶s̶t̶w̶o̶r̶t̶h̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶e̶x̶t̶r̶e̶m̶e̶.̶

I have, in my life, successfully dragged an estate agent (a very big chain too) through a complaint with The Property Ombudsman for delays in the sale of a property which they denied were anything to do with them. I've also "done" the most useless conveyancing Solicitor I have ever used for a similar problem on another purchase/sale through the legal Ombudsman. I enjoyed every minute of the disputes, slippery b*stards.


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## Jacob (10 Apr 2016)

BearTricks":58wxmdpp said:


> ......... I'm sure the stress of living here has effected my health, at least and I think we really need to get out of this slum soon.
> 
> Also, please feel free to call me out if I'm being a nob. My judgement is probably clouded somewhat.


No you are not being a nob - housing is a jungle nowadays.
Keep badgering the police if you have neighbour problems. They are currently very aware of calls which they neglected and neighbour probs is a bigger issue than you'd think.
Badger the council about litter, other probs and ask about council housing?
Badger Environmental Health dept about mould, damp, stress and health etc
Contact CAB for advice, and find out your rights.
Shelterare good on advice and rights too.
Believe it or not tenants still have some rights and landlords have some obligations
Which are good on advice - you might need to sign up for a £1 trial.

Basically kick up a fuss and don't give in!


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## Wuffles (10 Apr 2016)

Jacob":3b7fqxmr said:


> BearTricks":3b7fqxmr said:
> 
> 
> > ......... I'm sure the stress of living here has effected my health, at least and I think we really need to get out of this slum soon.
> ...



Who do I speak to about badgers Jacob? 

Obviously I am joking, I know I'd speak to Brian May.


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## Rorschach (10 Apr 2016)

AJB Temple":7gblsmuu said:


> Despite my posts above I have no time at all for most estate agents. I once wanted to buy a water mill, including the mill pond, for conversion. I was very friendly with the owner and (I eventually discovered) he wanted to sell it to me. I made an offer, which was a good offer (in fact the highest). The agent did not put this offer forward and the property was sold to a developer friend of the agent. The seller (who was getting on) asked me a fe weeks later why I hadn't bought it....He was annoyed and I was annoyed. The estate agent got sacked after the vendor and I jointly complained, but it was too late to change the deal. Crooked.




The lesson to be learnt here is that if you are really serious about a property, go straight to the owner and tell them. Don't rely on the estate agent.


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Apr 2016)

We sold, and we had notice by phone and in writing of every offer made including all the ones the agent knew we wouldn't accept, because as the agent (a friend, by the the bye) told us - they have to inform us of every offer by law.
They cannot legally pick and choose which offers they pass on.


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## Rorschach (11 Apr 2016)

Since when did legality stop people from doing things in their own interest? lol


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Apr 2016)

It never did ... but it's easy to prove in a court.


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## BearTricks (11 Apr 2016)

Forgot to add that we did attempt to go direct to the landlord by asking the tenant for his details. Apparently the estate agents flat out refused to give his details to the tenant, their reason being that they were managing the property for him and they would mediate any issues. I don't know if that's a common practice or not.


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## mind_the_goat (11 Apr 2016)

I'd have thought the agents would ask the landlord if it was okay to pass on details.
It does sound like the agent is being overly protective, but I'm afraid that's really between the Landlord and the Agent. Even you perceive it be disadvantaging you I don;t think there is much you can do, and the landlord may not care as long he gets his rent
I guess as a last resort you could try a land registry search.


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## woodpig (11 Apr 2016)

BearTricks":5e4pic1p said:


> Forgot to add that we did attempt to go direct to the landlord by asking the tenant for his details. Apparently the estate agents flat out refused to give his details to the tenant, their reason being that they were managing the property for him and they would mediate any issues. I don't know if that's a common practice or not.



I think that is pretty common. Many landlords don't want anything to do with management of the property and are happy to let the agent deal with it. My wife used to work for a letting agency so we know all about preferred suppliers and tradesmen etc.


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## custard (13 Apr 2016)

I'm afraid I don't have any advice, but you do have my sincerest sympathies.

I'm from the baby boomer generation and we were so unbelievably lucky to have access to cheap property in the years when we were first time buyers and moving up the ladder. Of course it didn't feel like it at the time, but looking back inflation and high interest rates were our best friends, the first year or two of property ownership might have been a struggle, but pretty soon rising wages meant we could pay down the mortgage and often be debt free in a decent family house in our 40's.

It strikes me that younger generations today have none of the good fortune that we took for granted, no free higher education, no generous company pensions, and eye wateringly expensive property are all body blows that my generation never faced. It makes me angry when I talk to some of my contemporaries who seem to be oblivious to the loaded generational dice.

Anyhow, I hope it works it out okay for you.


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## BearTricks (26 Apr 2016)

Thanks Custard.

I always go back and forth between the vague knowledge that I was born in a particularly unlucky window, and not wanting to contribute to the (often deserved) reputation for whining and entitlement that my generation has. We've been trying to get viewings for a few other places, but we keep running in to the 'no pets' issue. We have a non-shedding breed of dog who practically housetrained himself and has never even thought of chewing anything aside from his bones.

I actually looked up this thread because the house came back on the market about 30 minutes ago. The girlfriend just happened to be browsing Rightmove when it did and rang up right away. We got the same person on the phone as last time, who skirted round the same excuses, some of which I now know to be outright lies after digging round last time. I think we've annoyed her enough that we're probably on that estate agent's dung list for a while now.


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## Wuffles (26 Apr 2016)

BearTricks":2kdn6vp1 said:


> ...we're probably on that estate agent's dung list for a while now.



There are much worse places to be, chin up.


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## Fatboy (26 Apr 2016)

woodpig":1soutv1z said:


> BearTricks":1soutv1z said:
> 
> 
> > Forgot to add that we did attempt to go direct to the landlord by asking the tenant for his details. Apparently the estate agents flat out refused to give his details to the tenant, their reason being that they were managing the property for him and they would mediate any issues. I don't know if that's a common practice or not.
> ...



Its actually not common at all, landlords are becoming more engaged with the process. But what is common is most peoples ignorance of the law and/or reluctance to engage with it. A simple written request for the landlords name and address under Section 1, Landlord & Tenant Act 1985, from the tenant to an agent must be responded to within 21 days or the agent has broken the law; and its a criminal offence not civil. Most agents know that and will comply.


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## Fatboy (26 Apr 2016)

BearTricks":2peesdwr said:


> Thanks Custard.
> 
> I always go back and forth between the vague knowledge that I was born in a particularly unlucky window, and not wanting to contribute to the (often deserved) reputation for whining and entitlement that my generation has. We've been trying to get viewings for a few other places, but we keep running in to the 'no pets' issue. We have a non-shedding breed of dog who practically housetrained himself and has never even thought of chewing anything aside from his bones.
> 
> I actually looked up this thread because the house came back on the market about 30 minutes ago. The girlfriend just happened to be browsing Rightmove when it did and rang up right away. We got the same person on the phone as last time, who skirted round the same excuses, some of which I now know to be outright lies after digging round last time. I think we've annoyed her enough that we're probably on that estate agent's dung list for a while now.



I've read this thread and been amazed at some of the advice and opinions given. I'm aware that some people think letting agents are the devils disciples but rarely is that the case in reality; like any industry there are some bad'uns but most are decent hard working folk like most of the users on here are.

There could be any number of reasons why a landlord doesn't want to involve themselves directly with tenants, or it could be that the landlord has simply said they don't want pets and the agent is filtering out people who don't fit that criteria. Some people get so worked up about agents 'hating animals' that they get abusive - I'm not saying thats the case here - so lots of agents now tend to avoid the confrontation by giving other reasons. I once had two women screaming in my face that they hope me and my family all die in a car crash because one of my clients wouldn't allow them to move into a small 4th floor, 2 bedroom newly furnished flat. They had 3 alsations and a lurcher! The Police had to eject them in the end and arrested one for assaulting me - I've still got the scar on my arm! 

I'm afraid to say that having a pet other than a gold fish or a caged hamster is a big disadvantage to tenants.

Its a landlord's market at the moment so agents have to try to pick the best tenant out of the selection they have and thats based on all sorts of criteria; employment, stability, previous history, credit worthiness, pets, smokers etc etc. Its not unlike some of you taking responsibility for selecting the right material for a job; if you get it wrong it lands back on your doorstep. Same for agents. 

If they are not even letting you register for property alerts then there is probably something that you have already told them that is causing a problem. Personally, if someone approached me and said they were currently unemployed but had a redundancy package to support them, I would be asking to see proof of that and be looking to see if they really had enough to support themselves for at least 12 months, not just the rent. An agent isn't just looking to see what you can pay upfront; they have to look into the future and try to work out what might happen in 6 or 12 months time when the initial agreement comes up for renewal.

All that aside, there is a human aspect to all this; sometimes we just rub each other up the wrong way. 

And if I had a pound for everytime I've been accused of letting a house to a 'friend' instead of someone else who wanted it I'd be over the moon to have had so many friends! It would be a very foolish person to do that nowadays and not having declared it upfront to the landlord first; the penalties are very costly.


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## woodpig (26 Apr 2016)

Fatboy":kol97b7h said:


> Its actually not common at all.



It's common enough to have plenty of letting agents about. :roll:


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## AJB Temple (26 Apr 2016)

Not sure how relevant that is woodpig? 

In the south east and London, demand for rental property outstrips supply. Good quality properties are snapped up fast and agents can pick and choose tenants. This pushes up prices and encourages a risk avers approach. I suspect the position is worse for prospective tenants looking for affordable properties in high density, high demand areas.


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## Wuffles (27 Apr 2016)

Fatboy":2d6hwll3 said:


> BearTricks":2d6hwll3 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Custard.
> ...



I thought most of the vitriol in this thread was directed towards estate agents, not letting agents. Mine certainly was.


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## Fatboy (27 Apr 2016)

Wuffles":2bkryuvd said:


> Fatboy":2bkryuvd said:
> 
> 
> > BearTricks":2bkryuvd said:
> ...


estate agents engaged in lettings are effectively letting agents


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## Wuffles (27 Apr 2016)

Fatboy":ouydxpik said:


> Wuffles":ouydxpik said:
> 
> 
> > Fatboy":ouydxpik said:
> ...



I know that, my point remains the same.

It's like someone working at an abattoir and a cow sanctuary. Alright it's nothing like that, but can you imagine the hilarity if the two works Christmas outings met up.


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## AJB Temple (27 Apr 2016)

Cow sanctuary v abattoir: I once attended a wedding where I knew the bride quite well. Her previous fiance had dumped her and she was now marrying some other guy. I said to our table, that the ex fiance bride dumper was clearly an silly person as she was a lovely girl and she had a lucky escape really. Turned out that one of the girls on our table was his sister. She was really pineappled off and went on and on about it all evening. I was still right though ;-)


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## Jacob (27 Apr 2016)

If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!


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## Paul Chapman (28 Apr 2016)

Jacob":c1b4ja9n said:


> If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!



That's a disgraceful post, Jacob.

Paul


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2016)

Paul Chapman":1s3m9qri said:


> Jacob":1s3m9qri said:
> 
> 
> > If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!
> ...


We live in a disgraceful world. Housing is a jungle. I don't expect anyone to take my advice (on this or anything :roll: ) but I think we put up too easily with many things.


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## sunnybob (28 Apr 2016)

Jacob":3u2o0otu said:


> If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!



Tenants like that are the EXACT reason you have to pay up front and over the odds. My wife rents out a small flat left to her by her mother. With the taxes, fees, and repairing tenant damages, she's on the point of barely breaking even on the year. I've told her to sell it, then there will be one less rented place to be trashed.


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2016)

Looking at our OPs first post:


BearTricks":38rywukx said:


> ........ I don't think our landlord is inherently a bad person, but he's a doctor, he lives in Scotland while we're in the North West, and I think he just sees the house as a moneymaker on the side without realising the time and work that needs to go in to managing a property. I'm tired of pumping money in to somewhere that is stressful to be in..........


I think you are wrong BearTricks, your landlord _is_ inherently a bad person and his behaviour is utterly unacceptable and should be illegal.

He is fairly typical - the same sort of story is repeated all over the country, not to mention the homeless who don't even get as far as a bad landlord!

People should object and then we might get change.


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Apr 2016)

Paul Chapman":22ieilez said:


> Jacob":22ieilez said:
> 
> 
> > If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!
> ...


One step up the ladder from accusing people of lying. We expect little better.


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2016)

Paul Chapman":t9sagruj said:


> Jacob":t9sagruj said:
> 
> 
> > If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!
> ...


Paul - the point is; our OP's landlord's behaviour is seriously disgraceful and has a serious impact on the quality of OP's life every day, day after day.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Apr 2016)

Jacob":3do5qn4i said:


> Paul Chapman":3do5qn4i said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":3do5qn4i said:
> ...



Jacob, you're in a hole - stop digging.........

Paul


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## Lons (28 Apr 2016)

Jacob":37q2ujcv said:


> If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!



A simply disgraceful and inflammatory statement even if said tongue in cheek or after too much of the achoholic liquid. I think you need to retract that Jacob.


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2016)

Lons":66o2s11t said:


> Jacob":66o2s11t said:
> 
> 
> > If you get pineappled off with buy to let landlords, fees up front, inflated rents, lost deposits, dodgy letting agencies - always trash any place you are leaving. Set fire to it if possible - but tip off the neighbours first!
> ...


OK drunk  (I'm a Viz fan) but the point is - nobody is angry about the appalling behaviour of our OP's landlord. 
Why not? 
He has their lives in his hand and is taking a large amount of money from them and neglecting his basic duties.

Couldn't find a landlord cartoon


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## Cheshirechappie (28 Apr 2016)

You can't blame the landlord for the unsociable behaviour of the OP's neighbours.
You can't blame the landlord for the anti-social behaviour of local school-kids.
You can't blame the landlord for the anti-social behaviour of drunks at 4 in the morning.
The roof is another matter, but since the landlord is absent and has left the property's management in the hands of a letting agency, they are responsible for seeing that the property remains properly habitable, and ensuring that the landlord is made aware and will authorise proper repairs.

I have great sympathy for the OP, and very much hope he finds a better place to call home. However - and see absolutely no evidence whatever that the thought had crossed the OP's mind - trashing the place would just put the tenant in a very difficult legal and moral position. It would be an extremely irresponsible path to take, and to suggest it is shameful.


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## Lons (28 Apr 2016)

Jacob":1s8g7f05 said:


> Lons":1s8g7f05 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":1s8g7f05 said:
> ...



That was *NOT* a retraction Jacob, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Whatever the OP and agent are fighting over should and must not receive an illicit a response like yours. 
You've spouted some bigoted cr*p in your time but that takes the biscuit IMO

Really glad you're not one of my neighbours though some of the boys in blue who live near me would soon set you straight! (hammer)


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2016)

My point is - the boys in blue (or the law in one form or another) should be sorting out the landlord. 
If OP complains he could be out on his ear. If he withheld rent he could be in court too. 
Meanwhile the landlord has to do nothing and just keeps taking the rent - and the capital appreciation. 
It's a jungle out there and there are a lot of people in the same boat or worse.


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## Random Orbital Bob (28 Apr 2016)

Seriously Jacob, I'd be inclined to belt up now....soap box work is now done here, you're starting to receive numerous complaints which will necessitate a response from the mods. I'm trying to be kind and give you a message, pack it in now please, you've made your point.


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## BearTricks (29 Apr 2016)

Cheshirechappie":p4mvhys3 said:


> You can't blame the landlord for the unsociable behaviour of the OP's neighbours.
> You can't blame the landlord for the anti-social behaviour of local school-kids.
> You can't blame the landlord for the anti-social behaviour of drunks at 4 in the morning.
> The roof is another matter, but since the landlord is absent and has left the property's management in the hands of a letting agency, they are responsible for seeing that the property remains properly habitable, and ensuring that the landlord is made aware and will authorise proper repairs.
> ...



The management isn't in the hands of the letting agent. The landlord manages the property himself. My problem is that he is in no position to do so, living a few hundred miles away with a job that doesn't allow him to put the time and effort in to his side project down here. I think things have got lost in the arguments.

If he's a junior doctor, which he could well be, we might have a few more problems in store in the near future.

I've actually been advised to not organise the work myself, because it could make me liable. The contract expressly states that the landlord is responsible for organising any repairs. I don't know how literally I should be taking that. I'm also reticent to be put in the position where I have to organise payment to a local roofer, by a landlord who lives in Scotland and doesn't reply to emails for a few days because he's so busy.,

I honestly think we've just cheesed off the letting agents we've been attempting to deal with by viewing the other property without their consent. To reiterate, we knew the tenant so it's not unreasonable for us to be familiar with the house. She has multiple pets, and either the letting agent or the landlord had installed a cat flap for her, yet the letting agent told us down the phone that pets weren't allowed. Then when they were showing one of the potential tenants round apparently they were sounding off about how the garden would be perfect for their dog.

At this point, that particular letting agent doesn't know that I'm unemployed (by reason of voluntary redundancy, not because I'm a dossing benefit scrounger. I'm not on benefits.), but nevertheless my girlfriend has a job that more than covers the rent of the places we've been looking at. My best guess is that they think we were trying to avoid paying their finders fee so they've written us off.


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## sunnybob (29 Apr 2016)

Citiizens Advice centres are still out there. find your nearest one.


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## mind_the_goat (29 Apr 2016)

I don't understand your refusal to hold the owner to account. You are paying for a service which you are not getting. If the owner is unable to perform the basic duties and maintenance then he should either hand that responsibility off to the agent or should sell the property to someone who can manage it. I can speak from experience, it simply wouldn't occur to me to simply do nothing. 
Think there have been enough suggestions now for you to make some progress on both issues.


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## AJB Temple (29 Apr 2016)

In practice it is rather difficult to hold a landlord to account. If the landlord does not want to invest (for whatever reason) what you end up with usually in my limited experience is landlord and tenant equally brassed off with each other. This invariably ends with the landlord evicting the tenant at an early opportunity. It is pretty much a no win for tenants if they need to rent again as word gets around agents and of course a good reference will not be forthcoming. Letting agents depend on property owners far more than they do a supply of tenants, so they are inevitably biased towards the landlord (who pays them after all). 

The only real option for tenants is to do much more due diligence at the start of a private rental and make sure the property really is fit for purpose, and ensure that the management arrangements are realistic. I have rented, in between house development projects, and avoided landlord managed rentals. My assumption is that the landlord going the DIY route will often seek to minimise costs and effort.


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## Duncan A (29 Apr 2016)

The landlord, not the agent, is ultimately responsible for maintaining the property.
If he is too busy to do so, then he should authorise his agent to do so without delay.
If he is simply trying to avoid spending the money, then he shouldn't be in the property business (for that is what it is).
He is a doctor, he does a demanding job and is well rewarded for it. Why does he think that you would happily pay for a service you are not receiving?
Being an absentee landlord is no excuse; he still has moral and legal obligations and his appointed agent should be working to his instructions.
As per my previous post, it is my view that you should get out of this house and away from this landlord/agent combination. At the end of the day, it is you who decides the direction of your life, however, and only you can decide if your pet is worth the grief when renting, and whether you should be prepared to pay more as a consequence.
Many landlords that say "no pets" take that approach because pets frequently end up costing large sums of money in increased wear and tear despite reassurances from the tenants. (You sound like a dream tenant to me because so many are simply not prepared to take reasonable care of the landlord's investment). However, many landlords will soften their stance in exchange for an increased deposit and/or a modest increase in rent. This won't solve your present problems but could help to make other places available to you.
Worth a try!


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## BearTricks (30 Apr 2016)

I admit that we definitely didn't do enough due diligence at the beginning of the tenancy. We missed a few red flags or underestimated some issues, and were ensured by the letting agent that they would be in to fix a few things before we moved in. Of course, we didn't get that in writing and when we arrived the problems were still there while they completely denied making any promises.

I'll reiterate, it is a really nice house. It's listed, beautiful masonry, good size garden for the rent, in a really good location on paper, but with each of those comes inevitable problems that we didn't anticipate.

Anyway, for the few who are clearly getting tired of this thread popping up every so often we are actually working towards a solution.


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## Jacob (30 Apr 2016)

BearTricks":1heci16g said:


> ... Of course, we didn't get that in writing and when we arrived the problems were still there while they completely denied making any promises......


Tell the landlord that his agents are acting dishonestly on his behalf and that the house has problems which it is in HIS interests to get fixed (as well as your own). But you said it is in the contract that he should do repairs. A written contract is a good contract. A verbal agreement is a contract too, but difficult to prove - which doesn't mean you shouldn't argue about it if necessary.
Best to overstate the problems as it's easier to ease back rather than keep adding new details.
You could also point out the neighbourhood problems - not his fault of course but they should be reflected in the rent. You pay a lot for "location" if it's any good, and vice versa.


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