# Sash Clamp Heads - Advice



## warrenr (15 Jul 2010)

Hi,

I have acquired six Record sash clamp heads over the past months (both Nos 130 & 140) to complement my other metal sash clamps.

I was wondering what would be the best choice of timber for the 2" by 1" battens upon which the heads are mounted. In choosing the timber type, I assume you need both durability and strength. Cost and availability are factors. 

Should you protect the locating holes and what finish would you apply to the timber?

Richard


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2010)

I used to use 3 or 4x1" lumps of whatever was available...it's not critical. Just make sure there are no knots or defects in it, no finish (apart from being par) is needed either - Rob


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## Alf (15 Jul 2010)

I'd wax them, unless you really want to glue them to your project...


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## Paul Chapman (15 Jul 2010)

One other tip if yours are the older ones which have a metal pin which holds it on to the wooden bar - I have replaced the metal pins on mine with bolts and nuts. Helps to prevent lots of cursing and swearing as the pin drops out and the cramp head falls off at a critical moment (the newer Record cramp heads come with bolts and nuts as standard).

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2010)

Paul Chapman":3llkag8h said:


> cursing and swearing
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul


Not me, never  :lol: - Rob


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## flounder (15 Jul 2010)

Alf":fk7lzs4g said:


> I'd wax them, unless you really want to glue them to your project...



Is that the voice of experience?? :lol:


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## Alf (15 Jul 2010)

flounder":zae7py8d said:


> Alf":zae7py8d said:
> 
> 
> > I'd wax them, unless you really want to glue them to your project...
> ...


99 times out of 100 it would be, but in this case - amazingly - no. :lol: Done some of that swearing and cursing Paul mentions though, so also replaced the pins with bolts. Oh, and some cork tile stuck to the faces is a nice refinement.


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2010)

Alf":rdceu6pu said:


> cork tile stuck to the faces is a nice refinement.


Posh or what? :lol: ...I use a bit of old mouse mat or cushion flooring (the Nairn stuff I think) - Rob


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## WoodAddict (15 Jul 2010)

Has anybody used the cheapo versions of these that are available on the 'bay?

I just wondered if the were worth the gamble for the odd time i'll wanty to use them?


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## aesmith (15 Jul 2010)

Paul Chapman":1tore1kk said:


> One other tip if yours are the older ones which have a metal pin which holds it on to the wooden bar - I have replaced the metal pins on mine with bolts and nuts. Helps to prevent lots of cursing and swearing as the pin drops out and the cramp head falls off at a critical moment (the newer Record cramp heads come with bolts and nuts as standard).
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



I drilled the pins for "R" clips.


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## JoinerySolutions (15 Jul 2010)

For up to 8 foot I've had success with inch ply rips. For longer runs, for example: pulling newel posts and a long run of handrail up tight enough to get the draw bore dowels in, a clear grained Douglas Fir / B.C. Pine rail works real well. 
I also advocate oiling/waxing the rails, and yes this is the writing of experience  :lol: The man who never made a mistake, never made a thing. :wink: 
Rob.


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## t8hants (15 Jul 2010)

why use timber at all? I use 50x25x3 box section. I have made several nice clamps from junk off-cuts over the years, and if your local fabricator is anything like where I work three or four foot long off-cuts are a good get rid of. If you want longer a stock length is 25', and that should meet anybodies need.

A pleasent little job drilling off the pin/bolt holes. A coat of red oxide and paint and there you are a sash cramp that is stronger than the head itself. 

Gareth


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## Alf (15 Jul 2010)

woodbloke":2eghwhz0 said:


> Alf":2eghwhz0 said:
> 
> 
> > cork tile stuck to the faces is a nice refinement.
> ...


I'd have kept using the best Axminster shag pile, but it gave a whole new meaning to hairy glue-ups. :lol:



t8hants":2eghwhz0 said:


> why use timber at all?


Woodworkers have a lot of it about, I suppose.


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## Racers (15 Jul 2010)

Hi,

I made my cramp bars from cheap pine. nice amd light and just about strong enough, if you have made it right it won't need much cramp pressure :wink: 

Pete


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## Froggy (16 Jul 2010)

t8hants":3ah4mfr8 said:


> why use timber at all? I use 50x25x3 box section.



Excused my ignorance, but what is a box section?


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## stoatyboy (16 Jul 2010)

Ok - so lots of ideas for the bars but:

has anybody made any cramp heads?

I feel it ought to be possible but not got an idea for how!

Pete


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## woodbloke (16 Jul 2010)

stoatyboy":n0napgwy said:


> Ok - so lots of ideas for the bars but:
> 
> has anybody made any cramp heads?
> 
> ...


Why bother?...they're cheap enough to buy. I let Paul C have a severial a coupla years ago in exchange for a few vinovouchers - Rob


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## Sportique (16 Jul 2010)

stoatyboy":35jaczum said:


> Ok - so lots of ideas for the bars but:
> 
> has anybody made any cramp heads?
> 
> ...



Steve,

do a search on u-tube for noho91 videos - he has made some interesting cramp heads (as well as many other projects)

Dave


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## warrenr (17 Jul 2010)

Thanks to all for the help and comments.

Richard


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## Vann (20 Jul 2010)

Alf":1ey2jj60 said:


> Oh, and some cork tile stuck to the faces is a nice refinement.


Brilliant (I hope) !! I've just gone out and stuck self adhesive cork to all my clamp heads.


Alf":1ey2jj60 said:


> I'd wax them, unless you really want to glue them to your project...


Hmmm. I think I'll try that too. I just have to take another skim off the bars throught the thicknesser (they're just a bit tight at present)


Alf":1ey2jj60 said:


> ...so also replaced the pins with bolts.


Here I disagree. While it's true that the pins always fall out just when you least need them to, I think nuts and bolts would be a PITA. 

I have two pairs of Record No.130 heads and a Marples M130 pair. I note the pins on the Records are drilled for a ⅛" split-pin/nail to retain them - 'though the Marples pair aren't. I've always intended to pick up some R-clips - which, I think, will be much more convenient to use than bolts with nuts.

I'll just have to drill the Marples pins too :roll: .

Cheers, Vann.


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## bugbear (20 Jul 2010)

Alf":1eo1mr8g said:


> Oh, and some cork tile stuck to the faces is a nice refinement.



Or the (Robert Wearing?) idea of pads with a slot (open mortise, like a bridle joint) to ride on the bar.

BugBear


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## Eric The Viking (20 Jul 2010)

Vann":1wge0yzj said:


> Here I disagree. While it's true that the pins always fall out just when you least need them to, I think nuts and bolts would be a PITA.



I've left mine slightly snug on the bar for that reason (gives you a fighting chance of getting the pin back when in a hurry!). But you made me think of an idea: 

I've a kit of small O-rings from Toolstation. It gets used mainly for plumbing, but the smallest ones are pretty useless (at those sizes they have to be an exact replacement for whatever, usually). String or fishing line would let one stay on the pin, but still let you get the pin out quickly if you decide to move that end at the last minute. It may be too much fuss tho. 

I don't like bolts (or at least, machine screws) because of the thread damage over time - they'll cut into the wood and the cramp head will cut into them. And I still prefer the Marples (diagonal slot) sort to the Record ones (have a set of each). 

These are the dog's whatsits (Marples copies):







The tail end jams on the bar (square!) as you apply force. or you can 'set' it by tapping the face with a hammer. That aspect is better than a sash cramp, IMHO.

Tilgear sell them no longer, but I've seen some under the "Faithfull" brand. Dunno about the quality, although the picture appears to be an Acme thread:


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## bugbear (20 Jul 2010)

Paul Chapman":11xwcpxc said:


> One other tip if yours are the older ones which have a metal pin which holds it on to the wooden bar - I have replaced the metal pins on mine with bolts and nuts. Helps to prevent lots of cursing and swearing as the pin drops out and the cramp head falls off at a critical moment (the newer Record cramp heads come with bolts and nuts as standard).
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



IIRC there used to be a brand of clamp where the pin was captive in the heads, and retractible on a spring - anyone recall more?

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (20 Jul 2010)

I would try to find some box-section mild steel of the right size. 
Fill it with a piece of scrap timber, and drill the holes where you need them. Then use the 'square-tube' (Box section) instead of timber. 

EBay is a good bet for suppliers. 

John


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## Alf (20 Jul 2010)

Regarding the use of bolts, it's not as though you tighten the nuts on 'em with a spanner or anything - you just twizzle a nut on a tad. No more time consuming or awkward than sticking a pin in the, er, pin...

Agree on the slanted slotted variety of head - mine are Paramos and always my first choice over the Record ones I also have.

And BB, the captive spring variety of pin is certainly ringing bells, but then I wonder if I'm not thinking of a sash clamp instead.


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## Benchwayze (20 Jul 2010)

Froggy":48a1c6j1 said:


> t8hants":48a1c6j1 said:
> 
> 
> > why use timber at all? I use 50x25x3 box section.
> ...




Froggy, 

Did anyone answer? 
It's the generic name for square or rectangular metal tubing. E.g. Paddy Hopkirk Roof-bars.

John


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## studders (20 Jul 2010)

t8hants":m9uxzmgw said:


> why use timber at all? I use 50x25x3 box section.
> 
> Gareth



I used to use that too. Two reasons why I went back to Wood..

1. They weighed a lot compared to Wood.

2. I need some Box Section for a Project. :lol: 

It does make for some very strong clamps though, too strong really.


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## studders (20 Jul 2010)

aesmith":1udk3kii said:


> I drilled the pins for "R" clips.



Top marks for a top tip.

I shall go and relieve my Car Shop friend of his supply.


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## Benchwayze (20 Jul 2010)

I shall be using the legs from my Triton extension table, (Which isn't much use, and I don't have the space either) for a project involving 4" castors! 

 

John :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Tony Spear (26 Jul 2010)

Alf":1m8qaz4d said:


> Regarding the use of bolts, it's not as though you tighten the nuts on 'em with a spanner or anything - you just twizzle a nut on a tad. No more time consuming or awkward than sticking a pin in the, er, pin...



Wing nuts are even quicker!


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## Benchwayze (27 Jul 2010)

Alf":336bdl0r said:


> I'd wax them, unless you really want to glue them to your project...



I just stamped.. 'Keep away from glue' on mine ALF. It seems to work. 

:lol: 

Actually I nick my Lady's grease-proof paper!

John


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## xy mosian (27 Jul 2010)

That horrible brown packing tape works well for repelling glue.
xy


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## Mekkemikkel (27 Jul 2010)

I'm thinking about buying some of these from Axminster: http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-3-off-aminster-deluxe-cramp-head-sets--package-deal-prod800765/ 

Does someone have any experience with those?


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## Benchwayze (27 Jul 2010)

Mikkell,

I bought two pairs of those. I haven't used them yet, but I am sure they will work. 

Unless I am thinking of clamping timbers for a new HMS Victory, then to me a cramp, is a cramp, is a cramp.

I like the best, but I don't mind using cheapies in a pinch. (Excuse the pun!) 



John


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