# Learning to weld



## Deadeye (25 May 2019)

Hello

Would like to learn basic welding skills to augment my workshop pottering.
MIG, TIG, MMA?
What's most sensible for someone that just wants to tack a few bits of iron together for jigs etc?
One day course, or second hand kit, decent mask/gauintlets/apron and Youtube (and strong belief in my own immortality)?
And is second hand kit ok? or does it fail over time?

Thanks!


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## MikeG. (25 May 2019)

MIG is what experienced welders call "point and shoot" welding, or "weekend welding". It is extremely easy, and extremely effective. It's just a little easier if someone experienced helps you set it up in the first place, and shows you the absolute basics. The same weekend that I did my first ever welding I made a canopy for my 4x4 which lasted 6 years in Africa before the car was rolled. Don't let anyone tell you that working with mild steel is in any way complicated. Stick welding, TIG welding........save them for later (the latter if you want to do stainless or aluminium).


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## sunnybob (25 May 2019)

Do any schools or colleges do evening classes near you?

I did a welding evening class and it was extremely useful for home and my work at that time. 
Admittedly, I have just realised that was in 1973 :shock: , possibly things have changed a bit :roll: (hammer) (hammer) 

I have only just given away my arc welder kit (weighed more than two airline suitcases) would have loved to try mig and tig but the need never arose.


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## powertools (25 May 2019)

The type of welding you want to do makes a massive difference on the type of equipment you need and the learning curve you will have to go through.
As to your question about how long second hand kit will last it would be simpler to tell you how long is a length of string.


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## Deadeye (25 May 2019)

Thanks everyone!

I suppose I want to use scraps of mild steel to augment jigs etc., make brackets and so on.
Point and shoot sounds good.
Unfortunately all the vening classe shere are "accounting", "English as a second language", "Parenting" etc. Nothing on woodwork or welding!


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## Hlsmith (25 May 2019)

I would visit the might welding forum if I where you 
Look I have a stick machine as it requires the least consumables and upkeep but it would struggle to weld very thin material but if u only want brackets and jigs not a problem 
Plenty of pics on the internet of welds to compare to your own welds and what to do to correct it


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## Lons (25 May 2019)

I also have an old SIP stick welder, used very rarely but like many tools a godsend when you need it.
Occasional use means a few minutes practice needed to get it going again but not too difficult. I've welded many different things from just minor repairs to a full trailer chassis. As said not so easy on thin materials but you can get a brazing attachment though only tried mine once and couldn't do it! #-o 

Consumables are cheap and last a long time if kept dry.


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## TFrench (25 May 2019)

I mainly use mig and it's pretty easy. Watch some of weldmongers videos on YouTube, they're very helpful in showing what you should be trying to achieve in the puddle. It's definitely improved my self taught welding! I've found stick not too bad but I have quite a bit of experience with mig. 

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk


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## Ttrees (26 May 2019)

Don't know much atall about welders, I've only been using a large arc welder for about 4 years the odd time, so I will give my 2cents on the arc welder only.
I've just bought a wee 50 euros Parkside arc welder only the other day, its pretty much the size of a car battery with leads, space is valuable in my workshop, hence a want for a welder of some sort.
Can't say its any good yet, but I won't need it for big jobs, as I have a 16amp required 250 amp one at the folks.
I need a welder here for some tablesaw restoration work, some machine bases, aswell as some smaller toolmaking things at the moment.

A good non critical thing to get started might be something like shelving or machine bases of some sort, get some 50x50x5 angle iron and some suitably sized pipe or box section and have at it.  
The thing with welding is you can always add the metal back again, so it might take you a while melting away your work or grinding it back, but you know you will get there for sure, and when welding anything in the home shop, it will be welded all over with juicy welds, and not cheaply tacked like what you see in industry, so everything always turns out way over built.

Looked at some used machines online to compare for what's a better deal, and they are very very cheap,
like 30 quid used for a 170 amp arc welder, the rod clamps and earth clamps less than a fiver in the local agri shop, black glass 2 quid, (I put a sodabottle thin plastic screen over it, to stop it getting scratched) about a tenner for a box of 3.2mm rods that will see you through a good few projects. 
The 170 amp ones look good value, are 13amp, have a variable crank adjustment, rather than a low/high pretend winder switch, probably can weld your common 4 or 5mm steel with patience, have a cooling fan and the 3.2mm rods are cheaper than thinner ones.
It says that 2.5 is the max for my new machine, max 100 amps, restically 80.... hoping this is not over exaggerated claims like with all tools you get. 
If I had the space, I would have went the secondhand route.

Clothing wise I find the angle grinding to be worse, and I would love if I got around to making an leather apron.
An auld hat.
Some earmuffs.
Get two pairs of safety glasses for good measure! and wear a pair all the time throughout the session till metal is cold, because the slag pops the weld off whilst cooling. 
and keep those boots tight  

Tool wise
I use a small bench grinder, some long masonry nails for making picks for slag, and the grinder amongst other things to keep those picks sharp, keep the mouth shut and watch your teeth because those steel nails will recoil like a bullet!
Little poundshop cross pein hammer.
Wire brush.
One absolutely essential tool, actually tools is a pair of 4.5 " angle grinders.
Source the cheapest 1mm thin cutting discs you can find, if you get thicker cutting discs than that, you will pollute yourself with dust, while it's also a lot harder work for the grinder to do.
The grinding discs you can get some mileage on them, you wouldn't search the internet for them, but compared to the ultra consumable thin cutting discs, is ok to grumpily pay 2 or 3 bob for them locally.
The automotive store is the best value for the 1mm thin discs singularly, as there are no pound shops with 5 packs close. 
Don't go to the likes of homebase for these things, you will pay 6 or 7 times the cost of discs in these large home/diy outfits.


To sum it up
What supply have you got?
Have you got space for a larger one?
What work are you doing?

Good luck
Tom


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## Deadeye (26 May 2019)

Thanks everyone - som e excellent advice.

Space also at a premium, and I'll be an occasional bodger not a full-blown fabricator.
I've got 16A in the garage.
I've got bench and angle grinders, ear defenders and safety glasses.

Need to get better footwear, apron, gauntlets and a proper mask.

I think, for confidence, I might try to find a one day course and travel to it.


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## Hlsmith (26 May 2019)

16 amp is only really needed for bigger stuff 
A good inverter welderwill run 3.2 mm rods on a 13 amp plug 
One other thing to note is stick has no upper limit for thickness it can weld you just keep layering the welds on but this doesn't work with mig 
Depending on your budget I would recommend something like this for stick 

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/arc-wel ... ro-arc175/

Will happily run 3.2 mm rods on 13 amps and can be used as a basic tight if you buy the accessories if you want to go smaller 

Something like this if you want to go mig 
https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/mig-wel ... -i-mig180/

Or if buget is more generous this machine will cover mig Tig and arc 
https://engweld.co.uk/product/esab-rebe ... ZUQAvD_BwE

I recommend r tech to deal with hence the first recommendations there customer service is amazing and if you order over the phone they sometimes throw some goodies in with the order


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## triker64 (26 May 2019)

Hi depending where you live have a look at agriculture college for welding course.


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## Eric The Viking (26 May 2019)

16A is VERY useful actually. 

It's not that you need it continuously, but the arc isn't continuous (which is why you get that nice frying sound when it's right). The trouble with 13A is the fuse in the plug: it's a resistance, and lowers the current when you strike the arc. And current = heating capability. Once you have a weld pool it's not so important, but the initial tack welds are starting with the metal cold, and little shielding gas.

I replaced the 13A plug on my very old Sip MIG 130 Autoplus set with a 16A one, so it comes straight from the 16A outlet, and the weld quality and ease of use improved noticeably.

Years ago, when we had a fire-escape/veranda fitted at the back of our old place, bits needed to be stick-welded to assemble everything. The fabricator went straight to the cooker socket in the kitchen and wedged the bared wires of his stick welder's mains cable into the "13A" socket (with matches), so it got the maximum possible current.

I'm sure you can get by without 16A (my welder was used for years with a 13A plug, before I got it), but it certainly does help.


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## Ttrees (26 May 2019)

I never use gloves, and I don't like those flipdown masks either.
I find that holding the shield style mask counteracts the weight of the electrode gun on the other hand and gives me better control.
I hope more folks comment, as it is interesting.
If you really want a course, watch Steve Bleile's videos, he will show you the ropes for sure.
I could only find his videos with subtitles on youtube.
[youtube]FvvzjbibNsE[/youtube]


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## Lazurus (26 May 2019)

I got into Mig welding last year and it is extremely versatile, you can also do arc and scratch Tig with the same unit if you wish. You will need shielding gas unless you go for flux cored wires which is very messy and less effective. Shielding gas around £30 a refill - I went for an R-Tech 180 amp inverter welder, excellent unit for home use and the back up service from R-Tech is second to none. A auto darkening mask is a must for ease of use and can be had fairly cheaply off Fleabay. Certainly a great addition to the workshop, small compact enough power to weld up to 6mm plate off 13 amp plug - Easy to use and set up. Currently been making flowers out of used horseshoes. Simple and very popular. Local fabrication companies will often let you rummage in the scrap skip for a few beer tokens into their bun fund.


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## Eric (26 May 2019)

If you need/want to get something made with minimal effort, or the metal is 2mm or less, then MIG is probably the best way to go. Downside is that metal must be clean and the shielding gas easily gets blown away by even a light wind, so not suitable for outdoor use. 

MMA takes more practice, but once you get the hang of it, is very satisfying to do. No gas bottles needed and the steel doesn't need to be particularly clean. Not suited to sheet metal, but will give incredibly strong joints on all other thicknesses of steel with inexpensive equipment. Can also weld outside (or say with garage door open), even when it's windy, so much easier to not breath in weld fumes. 

It sounds to me like you are prepared to spend the time learning, so don't be scared of starting with MMA. The new lightweight inverter machines are not expensive. Older transformer machines seem to last for ever, but wouldn't be my choice for their bulk and weight. That Steve Bleile training video Ttree suggested is probably the best there is. With that and a bit of time you can easily learn yourself. MMA is hard to master if you need to weld vertically, or upside down, but for your jigs you don't have to do that, you simply position the work piece so that everything can be done horizontal. There are lots of rod types, but in this country just buy a pack of 5kg pack of 6013 Bohler or similar and with reasonable hand eye coordination you should soon get the hang of it.


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## monster (13 Jun 2019)

As others have said it really depends on what you need to weld as to what type of welding you would adopt - ive had a go at mig, arc and gas over the years - mig is the easiest and oxytocin's acetylene the most satisfying mig and gas i would tend to use on thinner gauge stuff like car bodywork and arc on a heavier gauge materials.

Decide what it is you need to weld first - and that will help direct you as to which type to learn first.


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## julianf (13 Jun 2019)

Thick mild steel - stick
Thinner mild steel - mig
Stainless - DC Tig
Alloy - AC Tig

Tig is much more like soldering in action. Heat in one hand, filler in the other. I like it more than mig, but you're not going to be welding up your rusty landrover chassis with Tig...

...not stick, for that matter, as it will just blow holes in thinner metal.

If you can limit yourself to thicker metal, than stick is cheap, as you don't need gas. (And don't make the mistake of thinking "but there's gassless migs" - there are, but noone with any sense actually uses them!)

Be aware that, if you're to do any volume of mig or Tig at all, you will need a gas contract. Those little disposable bottles are a nonsense. If you do the sums on larger rent-free bottles, they only work if you're on less than one fill a year. Anything over that, and a boc contract (about £50 rent per year on a y size, plus your fills) becomes cheaper.

Get yourself an autodarkening mask. Anything else is just a hang over from the past. Or a "complete welding kit" sales pitch for suckers.

Don't weld without -

A) a mask (ever!) (really!)
B) gloves 
C) exposed skin covered - you will be surprised when you get a whole load of sunburn, and then you won't do it again.


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## Chris152 (13 Jun 2019)

Eric":5q598s91 said:


> Downside is that ... the shielding gas easily gets blown away by even a light wind, so not suitable for outdoor use.



That's a shame, I've been harbouring the thought of getting MIG to use outside. Lots of windyness here in Wales.


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## Lazurus (13 Jun 2019)

Simple DIY welding screens are all you need


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## TFrench (13 Jun 2019)

Gas is available from hobbyweld without a BOC contract - you pay a deposit on the bottle then just pay for refills as you need them. I'd look at spending a bit more on a hood than a cheap n nasty one off ebay - they tend to be made of stuff that gets a bit melty which isn't ideal....


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## novocaine (13 Jun 2019)

buy a spool of flux core. You can run a gas set as a gasless set (can't do it the other way round though). lets you weld in environments which you can't get away normally. a bit different to normal MIG welding but doable.


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## heimlaga (13 Jun 2019)

I do all my welding outdoors and in my oppinion stick welding is the only reasonable option for me. 

You need a very good and very expensive mig and some rather good quality wire to produce a decent result with gasless mig welding. The gasless migs sold for hobby use only produce splatters and some sort of iron sponge infused with nodules of flux.
A normal mig with gas is only for indoor use except if you build some sort of tent arond the job or if you weld only on calm days. Actually MIGs are banned by law from use on load bearing components at construction sites. As soon as a part of the gas is blown away it affects the strenght of the weld.

My stick welder is a 1960-ies Unitor rectifier. It runs on 16 ampere three phase and pruduces up to 200 amperes welding current. With it I can weld any thickness from 1,5mm and up. The thickest I have ever welded was some 30mm plate. I have pathed up some 1mm thick things too but then the weld quality ends up doubtful. Good quailty rods are important to insure good quality welds. I normally use Elga P48.
Acid rods such as Elga P45 and Esab OK46 are pretty much useless though many hobbyists like them because they are slightly easier to weld with. The welds become very brittle especially when the remperature is below freezing. At -30 celsius they shatter like glass.


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## novocaine (14 Jun 2019)

well it's an opinion so fair enough, have you tried it though? given it a few hours of practice to see if it really does just leave poop stains and and porous weld? 

I manage just fine running the small and (I'd say in the cheap price bracket) Kennedy 150 on fluxcore and keeping the gas on the Kemppi. manage alright with it outside too. It's a very different technique (akin to half stick half mig) as said but well worth being able to do. Duel shield (flux and gas) is allowed on construction but as it take as a bit more kit and a different skill set to stick it isn't seen unless in very high risk areas (welder earns more), I saw it on some of the pipelines out in Saudi. 

whilst I own and use stick it's next to useless on a car, great for tractors and diggers but that's another story.

please note I'm not saying don't learn SMAW first, that's the way everybody should start, but don't rule out learning other forms too, a 1 trick pony does not a skilled craftsman make.


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