# New Hedge (Or a fence it seems)



## Dibs-h (6 Mar 2010)

Due to the recent destruction of my hedge - it has been recommeded that I plant something like pyracantha or berberis. What's the growth rate of these?

The primary purpose is security and for those of a nervouse desposition :roll: - to get to it one would either have to come thru my garden - step thru a Lelandii hedge and then continue 3 feet to my boundary wall - step up 2-3' and arrive at the eaves of my neighbours garage.

Or climb over the neighbours garage, upto the ridge, down the other side, and from eaves, step onto my boundary wall. So if you make a wild guess - the top of my boundary wall is around 7' higher than next doors "garden".

I.e. This proposed hedge isn't readily accesible and will run the entire length of the wall, that the neighbours garage does.


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## Doctor (6 Mar 2010)

Destruction? I thought someone had stolen it, didn't the headmistress admit it could have been one of her tradesmen responsible for the theft.
Did you have it electronically tagged?


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## Dibs-h (6 Mar 2010)

Doctor":2k73wava said:


> Destruction? I thought someone had stolen it, didn't the headmistress admit it could have been one of her tradesmen responsible for the theft.
> Did you have it electronically tagged?



:lol: :lol: 

Doc - you certainly are a bit of medicine, just at the right moment!


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":398ayxyy said:


> Due to the recent destruction of my hedge - it has been recommeded that I plant something like pyracantha or berberis. What's the growth rate of these?
> 
> The primary purpose is security and for those of a nervouse desposition :roll: - to get to it one would either have to come thru my garden - step thru a Lelandii hedge and then continue 3 feet to my boundary wall - step up 2-3' and arrive at the eaves of my neighbours garage.
> 
> ...



Dib's I think you should go for pyracantha (firethorn) because it grows pretty quick and has some wicked thorns which when fully grown no one could get through. The trunk ends up very thick which gives a lot of strength to the hedge, and in the spring it is cover in really nice white flowers and the birds can feed on heaps of berries in the autumn.

You want to plant them about 60 cm apart and at Parkers you can get a pack of 10 for £24.95.

EDIT Steve can edit faster than me.

HTH

Cheers

Mike


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## Steve Jones (6 Mar 2010)

Pyracantha 'orange glow' would be my choice grows 30-60cm a year with a max height of 3m and a max spread of 4m.

There are several varieties of Berberies including dwarf, in general berberis are slower gowing with only about 30cm of growth a year.

Steve 

Edit: Mike can type faster than me


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## Screw Loose (6 Mar 2010)

Just plant some Barbed Wire Cereus


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## Dibs-h (6 Mar 2010)

Cheers Mike & Steve - I did do a quick google and Nurseries are selling them with heights of 1m - is it worth buying the taller ones - i.e. to get a bit of a head start?

I'm toying with the idea of getting some Steel mesh - there must be a smaller version of A252 (what I put in the raft), that would restrict access for the moment and "integrate" nicely with the Pyracantha



Screw Loose":17jboypy said:


> Just plant some Barbed Wire Cereus



At 1st I thought you were taking the proverbial - then a quick Google - :lol:


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":26ufpk75 said:


> Cheers Mike & Steve - I did do a quick google and Nurseries are selling them with heights of 1m - is it worth buying the taller ones - i.e. to get a bit of a head start?
> 
> I'm toying with the idea of getting some Steel mesh - there must be a smaller version of A252 (what I put in the raft), that would restrict access for the moment and "integrate" nicely with the Pyracantha
> 
> ...



Yes Dib's its worth buying the longer ones because it will give you a good head start, you will have to pay a bit more, but you will get to your final height quicker :lol: 

As for the mesh that would be an excellent idea, because it will give the pyracantha something to grow up until it is strong enough to hold its own weight.

Cheers

Mike


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## Dibs-h (6 Mar 2010)

Chaps - I much appreciate the advice & Doc - many thanks for the laugh! Brought a bit of perspective and the anger meter down alot.

I'm off into the workshop to finish a little prepping (for paint) on the workshop door and then off out for a sheesha.


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## Digit (6 Mar 2010)

Close into an established hedge will mean regular watering till such time as the hedge is established or you will lose them.

Roy.


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## Davon (6 Mar 2010)

I may be wrong here...(it has been known)

Don't pyracantha require male and female in the same vicinity for 

pollination ?

Davon


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## matt (6 Mar 2010)

Bare rooted is a good way to buy if you're in a position to plant on receipt (or at least heel them in some decent soil ready to transplant soonish). You can only get them at certain times of year but I think now might be the right time...

We got about 70ft of mixed native hedging for the end of our garden for very little money a few years back - coming along nicely.


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2010)

Davon":3fdpabc8 said:


> I may be wrong here...(it has been known)
> 
> Don't pyracantha require male and female in the same vicinity for
> 
> ...



I think most pyracantha are hermaphrodite (male and female flowers on the same plant), but not being an expert, you better check with the nurseries.

Come to think of it we only had one plant in our previous property, and that grew to about 6 feet high and 12 feet long and every year it was covered with flowers and berries.

Cheers

Mike


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## Lons (6 Mar 2010)

Davon":2epcv4eu said:


> I may be wrong here...(it has been known)
> 
> Don't pyracantha require male and female in the same vicinity for
> 
> ...



Only if you want lots of little baby pyracanthi running around.  

I've got a couple of large plants growing against a wall and I confirm, the thorns are lethal!
I'd also recommend growing against mesh support as suggested, as it seems to help the plants if fixed to something. also would make an almost impenatrable barrier.

I've got an old blackthorn hedge which grows like hell when it's pruned and is even more fierce but I don't know how quickly it establishes from young plants.

Word of warning - it aint pleasant cutting the hedge and especially gathering the cuttings = need welders' gloves


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## Jake (6 Mar 2010)

Plants are good, cos they just look nice and are natural.

I recommend triffids.


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## stevebuk (6 Mar 2010)

As a garden centre plant area manager i can tell you Pyracantha does not need a pollinator in order to berry.
I would also suggest Rosa Rugosa stems, very spikey, lots of either pink or white fragrant flowers followed by large red rose hips in the autumn/winter.


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2010)

stevebuk":3pu90srk said:


> As a garden centre plant area manager i can tell you Pyracantha does not need a pollinator in order to berry.
> I would also suggest Rosa Rugosa stems, very spikey, lots of either pink or white fragrant flowers followed by large red rose hips in the autumn/winter.



Thanks Steve, there is nothing like the word of an expert.

Cheers

Mike


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## mr grimsdale (6 Mar 2010)

Nothing wrong with the old english mixture - privet, hawthorn, holly, beech, laburnam and many others all make a nice trad hedge.


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## laird (6 Mar 2010)

I realise that I'm in a different part of the world to you, and we get winter - every winter - but I planted pyrocanthus some 18 years ago. It reached the wall height (1.2m) within 3 years, and there it has stuck. It sticks it's head above it, and stops.
Leylandii here will grow, but if you get above 3m the bottom goes brown, and your're left with a hedge that is levelable at the top, but the bottom metre is a browwn tree trunk, so large gaps inbetween.
Rose wall hedging works solidly, eventually, 3m impenetrable after 6 years.
What i think I'm trying to say is you need to take local advice - not global forum advice.
Talk to your local (non-chain) garden centre, maybe ?


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## wobblycogs (7 Mar 2010)

I've just finished removing the root of a huge pyracantha from our back garden. The first spring we moved in it was about 2m tall and I trimmed it back to 1.25m. End of year 2 (so two growing seasons) it had shot up to at least 4m and probably taller - I've never seen anything grow like it! 

Took two full days to cut it down last autumn wearing thick gloves and throwing the cuttings straight on a fire. Terrible stuff to prune, absolutely hated the job thought I was going to lose an eye at any moment the whole time. 

I'd certainly consider black thorne, I don't think it's quite as viscious but it will certainly get the job done.


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## Lons (7 Mar 2010)

I planted a typical mixed hedge to 2 sides of my paddock some 12 years ago. All bare rooted around 12 - 18ins high.

The majority were locally sourced but 100 beech came via mail order company (were imported from Holland I think).

Hawthorn, hazel, beech, holly, wild rose and a number of trees. About 250 metres in total was planted double row style with farmyard manure dug in and watered fot the first couple of months.

The hawthorn absolutely shot away as did the beech and rose. the others were slower. Interestingly, the dutch beech grew at almost twice the rate of the local stuff and as I had mixed them it was very obvious.

Whole hedge is pruned every year and within 3 years I had a solid 3-4ft solid hedge. Now kept at about 7ft and around 3 ft thick it's impenatrable athough some of the weaker plants have all but disappeared.

If you want to plant bare rooted plants, you're running out of time I think.

Bob


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## Mike.C (7 Mar 2010)

laird":1rxwhwil said:


> I realise that I'm in a different part of the world to you, and we get winter - every winter - but I planted pyrocanthus some 18 years ago. It reached the wall height (1.2m) within 3 years, and there it has stuck. It sticks it's head above it, and stops.
> Leylandii here will grow, but if you get above 3m the bottom goes brown, and your're left with a hedge that is levelable at the top, but the bottom metre is a browwn tree trunk, so large gaps inbetween.
> Rose wall hedging works solidly, eventually, 3m impenetrable after 6 years.
> What i think I'm trying to say is you need to take local advice - not global forum advice.
> Talk to your local (non-chain) garden centre, maybe ?



Laird is right, but I live in the North East of Scotland if pyracantha grows here (19 below this winter) I am sure that it will grown anywhere.

Cheers

Mike


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## laird (7 Mar 2010)

It's the east wind that stops it here Mike. We're (obviously) right on the coast and as soon as it grows out of the shelter of something else along comes a raw, salt laden easterly and burns it down to shelter level again.


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## Digit (7 Mar 2010)

Same problem here Laird, took us three years, starting with some 6ft Leylandii to get a shelter belt on the windward side. Till then little survived winter blasts. Mind you the wind speed record locally is 106 mph! :lol: 

Roy.


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## Mike.C (7 Mar 2010)

laird":iduplmac said:


> It's the east wind that stops it here Mike. We're (obviously) right on the coast and as soon as it grows out of the shelter of something else along comes a raw, salt laden easterly and burns it down to shelter level again.



Ah yes that will make a huge difference. A few people that I know down in the town of Fraserburgh, live on streets that run up from sea, and when the wind picks up it can start stripping the paint/stain from their windows etc. It is so bad that they have to re-do them every few years. You would not believe it unless you seen it with your own eyes over a space of time.

You can also see the salt on the leaves of their evergreen plants in the winter.

There is so much salt coming off the sea that they do not have to salt the roads when it snows :roll: No not really but you know what I mean :lol: 

Seriously I can see what you mean when you say that as soon as it grows over any shelter a plant would be damaged.

Cheers

Mike


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

Pictures,

Here is a shot of the trees - where several to the left (start of the shot) are untouched and the ones alongside the garage have been "pruned",







And here is a shot from alongside the garage showing the "pruning",






Here's a closer one,






The spacing between the existing trees is about 2' and the gap between the trees and the wall is about 1'.

So it would seem logical to plant pyracantha , etc. in between the leyandii trunks and perhaps between the treeline and wall.

Going to examine the wall as well - all the coping stones were bedded in mortar - with it being a school playground makes sense - as the School's workmen have been using it as a platform, all the stones in the area affected have been seriously dislodged. I'm inclined to pop round in the morning and hand her a letter, demanding an immediate stop to any work on my side - i.e. there is guttering , etc. yet to be fitted where it is inevitable the workmen will stnd on the wall. Considering the damage they've caused so far - why let them continue? I'm wondering whether to state that I'm willing to obtain an injunction should the school feel they can continue.


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## big soft moose (7 Mar 2010)

I'm confused now as i cant see any need for the school to be working on yourside - assuming that the trees are on your land and that the wall in the pic isnt the boundary.

The workmen have no right to come onto your land without your permision so you dont need an "injunction" just state that it is trespass and you are not willing to tolerate it and will expect them to pay for all damage caused thus far

one point though i cant see pyrocantha or anything else for that matter suceeding where it is heavily overshaded by the leylandi hedge , with which it will also be in competition for water and nutrients - you might be better off with a fence up to pruned height.


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":spf3gmj5 said:


> I'm confused now as i cant see any need for the school to be working on yourside - assuming that the trees are on your land and that the wall in the pic isnt the boundary.
> 
> The workmen have no right to come onto your land without your permision so you dont need an "injunction" just state that it is trespass and you are not willing to tolerate it and will expect them to pay for all damage caused thus far
> 
> one point though i cant see pyrocantha or anything else for that matter suceeding where it is heavily overshaded by the leylandi hedge , with which it will also be in competition for water and nutrients - you might be better off with a fence up to pruned height.



In the 1st picture you may be able to make out that the building (School's garage\outbuilding) has been re-roofed and one set of eaves is right up against the drystone wall (the boundry) So to make life easier - they've hacked the trees right back to allow the roofers, to 

1. use the wall as a "platform"
2. remove the need for ladder beams, etc. and therefore make teh job quicker\easier\more profitable.

I suppose the thinking behind the "injunction" bit was probably along the lines of "trespass will no longer be tolerated and will be legally enfoirced if need be."

The plan has always been to lop the Leyandii down to about 4m - i.e. to about 1m taller (max) of where they've hacked them on the back. That would increase the amount of light in that gap - would that help matters? and as someone pointed out - need to water them a lot perhaps for them to "take"?


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## Steve Jones (7 Mar 2010)

Dibs, 

Having now seen the pictures, I'm with BSM forget the pyracantha and just put up a fence of some description, The soil is going to be pretty worthless as there will be no nutrients left because the conifers will have taken everything out of the ground.

Steve


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

Steve Jones":lbxm25o2 said:


> Dibs,
> 
> Having now seen the pictures, I'm with BSM forget the pyracantha and just put up a fence of some description, The soil is going to be pretty worthless as there will be no nutrients left because the conifers will have taken everything out of the ground.
> 
> Steve



No mileage in "inter planting" between the Leyandii? - The gaps between the Leyandii is around 2'? Or perhaps removing the lower braches to say 1.5m high - opening things up a bit and then planting the wotsits in between the trees?

Quite happy to put a load of manure\etc down.


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## Steve Jones (7 Mar 2010)

Dibs, 

TBH I think if you want to go down that route it would be trial and error as to whether or not the pyracantha survived. This is just my opinion, others may think differently. 

Steve


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

Nothing grows under any of our firs - not even weeds. And ours are individuals around the garden. Even the grass in a perfect semi-circle from the border around one dies off as soon as there is a dry spell. I believe firs also make the soil very acid.


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## Soulfly (7 Mar 2010)

Pyracantha is not really regarded as a heding plant, more as an ornamental climbing plant. I would go for a mixture od kerria Japonia, escallionia, symphoticarpus, hazel, beech, thorn, forsythia and even things like Rosemary which are increasingly being used for hedging. I would also consider hebe for low hedging. If you have a mixture it is better for bio diversity, wildlife and is generally more interesting. The kerria and forsythia will have a magnificent yellow flower in early spring.


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## wobblycogs (7 Mar 2010)

My 2p worth would be that it would be a dead loss to plant anything between those confiners. Anything planted there would have to be able to survive very dry acidic conditions and limited light. I think you'd be lucky to get anything to survive there for any amount of time. 

I remember when I was growing up my father planted a row of beech along a boundry shaded by some big trees - but much less shaded that your plants would be. Ten years later when we moved out only about half were still alive and none had grown much bigger than a large bush.


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## Lons (7 Mar 2010)

matt":qm4a0ktu said:


> Nothing grows under any of our firs - not even weeds. And ours are individuals around the garden. Even the grass in a perfect semi-circle from the border around one dies off as soon as there is a dry spell. I believe firs also make the soil very acid.



+1

Having seen the pics, it's a waste of time IMO to plant anything close to the conifers. Chance of survival is very poor and no real growth even if they don't die.

Put up a fence and push the school for the costs. they should get it back from the contractors who look as though they've done a rubbish job.

As far as I know,(in England anyway) they do have a legal right to enter your land to carry out repairs and maintenance to their property and trees but they must first either obtain consent or give a reasonable period of notice of intent. 
In any event they must take care not to create damage and must fully restore any such damage that is caused.
They should also carry liability insurance and usually local authority won't award work if this is not in place.


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

Cheers for the advice chaps. I suppose it's a bit of case of stuffed whichever way one goes. I'm not having a fence installed on my side of the conifers - which means it has to go on the other side of them. Now space might be a bit tight there - whilst it would be so easy to get a mini digger or something in - to whack the fence posts in, mechanised access isn't going to happen. There is a private drain from next door (running across the garden in the last 10 feet or so) - if that was to have problems - caused by a digger in my garden - the cost of fixing that would dwarf this little fisaco.

I suspect whoever comes to quote for the fence is going to charge premium - to have to get the posts in some other way. Having it on the school's side of the wall would be the way to go, but their outbuilding is built right upto the wall for a significant part - and that's where the problem is. 

One option would be to cut down the conifers and install a fence - but the reason for the conifers (by the previous owner) was to absorb the noise, so I'm not willing to cut them down and increase the noise. Even if Pyracantha were planted alongside the fence - it could take ages to grow to a point of absorbing the noise.

I dare say this is going to be surreal - in terms of getting something that can be fitted, isn't easy to scale and dead easy to cut. Somehow I can see the suggestion of chainlink fence stapled\nailed to the trunks as the way forward coming from the School or the chap managing the contractors. :roll:

I'll be popping round in the morning with a letter fomally stating my "displeasure" with what the School's contractors have done, make a mention of aggravated trespass, etc. (wall & trees) & dumping of construction waste and let them know that I will be looking to have the damage assessed before deciding how to pursue the matter, but in the meantime should they require access - it must be requested beforehand (in writing) and should there be any further trespass (aggrevated or not) I won't hesitate to pursue the matter.

[*I so want to say* that further access may be supervised, due to the damage already done & should there be costs for this, the school will have to bear these - i.e. I ain't taking time off work - happy to instruct a surveyor (RICS or something) to oversee it.]


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## Mike.C (7 Mar 2010)

What a nightmare Dib's :evil: I have to agree with the others where they say that there is not much, if anything that is going to grow there. There's just not enough light and as someone else stated they would be fighting for water.

I cannot believe that their contractor just came into your garden and butchered your property :twisted: to such an extent that you have got to go through all these problems.

Good luck

Mike


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

Is the boundary line as misleading as it looks from your pictures? By that I mean it *looks* at though your boundary is the wall/building line and beyond that, where the firs are planted, is someone else's (the schools). Not that this really makes much difference to the current situation - I'm just trying to get my head round whether they were completely stupid or made a genuine mistake? In the case of the latter I suspect you may achieve more by simply discussing the situation further rather than getting too heavy handed too early. They'll be far more receptive to sorting out the problem in the best way possible for you if you're on good talking terms - they're in a weak position so you should be able to use this to your advantage if you're pleasant but firm in both noting your annoyance and requirements to bring about an amicable solution.


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

matt":1pl5hl7a said:


> Is the boundary line as misleading as it looks from your pictures? By that I mean it *looks* at though your boundary is the wall/building line and beyond that, where the firs are planted, is someone else's (the schools). Not that this really makes much difference to the current situation - I'm just trying to get my head round whether they were completely stupid or made a genuine mistake? In the case of the latter I suspect you may achieve more by simply discussing the situation further rather than getting too heavy handed too early. They'll be far more receptive to sorting out the problem in the best way possible for you if you're on good talking terms - they're in a weak position so you should be able to use this to your advantage if you're pleasant but firm in both noting your annoyance and requirements to bring about an amicable solution.




You've got it the wrong way round - firs\garden are mine.

The 1st picture posted is from the School's playground showing the drystone wall - which is the boundary, the trees and their outbuilding.

The 2nd picture is taken stood in the the gap between the trees and the wall and taking a picture looking left - i.e. between the outbuilding & trees.

The trees are in the bottom of my garden and the drystone wall is the boundary.


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

Oh, I see. The wall looks about 1ft thick and the trees appear quite tight against the wall? Which suggests that the school should have left branches about 1ft long sticking out from the trunk to be in the clear? Looking at the growth it would all have been old (brown) growth?


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

matt":2ledd2jg said:


> Oh, I see. The wall looks about 1ft thick and the trees appear quite tight against the wall? Which suggests that the school should have left branches about 1ft long sticking out from the trunk to be in the clear? Looking at the growth it would all have been old (brown) growth?



Yes on both counts. Although in some places it would have been almost 2' that should have been left.


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

In principle what they did was wrong but dare I even suggest that in practice 1ft (or even 2ft) of bare dead branch would not have made the slightest difference? Had the trees been regularly pruned back to the boundary line then there may have been some foliage there but they're so tight for such a tall tree it's highly unlikely.


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## Lons (7 Mar 2010)

It's strange but my experience over many years and 4 houses with leyllandii hedges is that for no apparent reason, there are times when they will regenerate from "brown" wood. I can't explain why but it has happened several times to me including 1 very "dead" 4 ft tree which I transplanted and is now healthy albeit after some 5 years.

My current house has a front hedge of alternate green and gold which is at least 25 years old. It had grown to well over 4 metres and I cut off 1.5 metres a few years ago although it is heavily trimmed every year.
It took 3 years for the top to fill in (hedge is 2ft thick) but it is now solid.

I also trimmed one end of the hedge back almost to the trunk to accommodate a widened driveway and that plant has now completely regenerated.

Strange :? 

Only part which it seems always stays bare is the base of the trunk.


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## Dibs-h (8 Mar 2010)

Didn't bother going round this morning - thought that I've been very reasonable & neighbourly in going round on Friday afternoon\eveing and bringing it to the Head's (& owners) attention. She said she'd get back to me today - so lets she how that goes, before one goes all heavy handed.

I spoke to some fencing folk about the following type of stuff,







I've seen it in green - so with what's left of the trees behind it (i.e. on their side rather than mine) - should be hardly noticeable.

Initial costs seem to be around £75 per linear metre installed and as we have somewhere around 15m of the stuff that will need installing - ouch! That's based on using one of those micro-digger type of things with an auger on the end. Obviously it will require a site visit to get a quote.

It will be interesting to see if I can find many companies to quote.


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## wobblycogs (8 Mar 2010)

Maybe I'm just being thick but I don't see where you are going to install a fence. I'm guessing you want it between the trees and the wall but wouldn't that risk under mining the foundations of the wall while the posts are being installed? I'm assuming that's the same not terribly stable wall that you had to support in the workshop build thread. Also, surely any little toe rag could stand on the wall and, step over then fence then climb down the tree?

One option I suppose would be to get a reel of barbed wire and nail it to the trunks of the trees. If you are worried about liability perhaps just use mesh instead for example the green stuff on this page http://www.meshdirect.co.uk/Heavyweight-12-gauge-2.5mm-wire-diameter-c-86.html. Would be a heavy weekends work but should only cost about £250.


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## Dibs-h (8 Mar 2010)

wobblycogs":3t1qbwvd said:


> Maybe I'm just being thick but I don't see where you are going to install a fence. I'm guessing you want it between the trees and the wall but wouldn't that risk under mining the foundations of the wall while the posts are being installed? I'm assuming that's the same not terribly stable wall that you had to support in the workshop build thread. Also, surely any little toe rag could stand on the wall and, step over then fence then climb down the tree?



This is at the bottom of the garden - not the side where the workshop is located. The School Playground is substantially lower than our garden - Picture 1, I posted was taken from the school playground, so only the top 2' or so of that wall shows in our garden - whereas from the playground side - 6 or so feet of it is visible. If the panels are 8' tall then even stood on a 2' max wall - would make scaling that kind of fence rather difficult.

As with all things - if someone wants in - they'd get in, it's just a case of trying to persuade them to go somewhere else (unfortunately).



wobblycogs":3t1qbwvd said:


> One option I suppose would be to get a reel of barbed wire and nail it to the trunks of the trees. If you are worried about liability perhaps just use mesh instead for example the green stuff on this page http://www.meshdirect.co.uk/Heavyweight-12-gauge-2.5mm-wire-diameter-c-86.html. Would be a heavy weekends work but should only cost about £250.



I half heartedly (more like from a sense of frustration) mention something similar in the other thread - and look where that one went?

I won't be lifting a finger other than using the gate or unlocking the gate so that whoever does the job can get in and out. The private primary School's contractors butchered the trees - so they might as well pay for the fencing.


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## Lons (8 Mar 2010)

I don't envy anyone trying to dig post holes among the roots those tress will have put out!

I think it would be almost impossible to dig to any depth by hand - I've tried!

I regularly hire 2.5 - 3.5 tonne diggers and often the little micros for ground works and foundations.

Going rate for the micros is around £60 - 70 plus VAT per day. there would be delivery on top - don't know cost as I collect with my trailer.

They are very easy to operate and a lot of fun as well although I've only once dug post holes with one and that was using a 300mm trenching bucket.


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## big soft moose (8 Mar 2010)

Lons":nh20wmh4 said:


> I don't envy anyone trying to dig post holes among the roots those tress will have put out!
> 
> .



too right - when ive done it in the past ive use a power auger but it isnt easy and also doesnt do the trees much good.

one option would be to get the school to put the fence on their side - ie between garage and wall up to the height of the pruning - but that is likely to be prohibitively expensive

the alternative would be a four strand or whatever barbed wire fence behind the trees on your side. Despite comments on the other thread given that the kids have a wall and a line of leylandi between them and the wire i cant see it being much of an H&S threat. - you could then grow dog wood or whater ornamental you like inside the wire to hide it from your view.

and a third option would be to fell the leylandi completely and replace with a fence - maybe projected out on its posts to be in line with the wall edge to make it virtually unclimbable

btw soulfly is talking out of his proverbial orifice (no major suprise there) pyracantha is as clasic hedging plant, but i dont think it will survive under the leylandii - though of course you could go the fence behind route as above and then put a pyracantha and/or berberis hedge beyond that fence to both hide it from your garden and also to provide a tertiary barrier.


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":1g3hmmhv said:


> Lons":1g3hmmhv said:
> 
> 
> > I don't envy anyone trying to dig post holes among the roots those tress will have put out!
> ...



Haven't heard back yet from the school - you know how most teachers treat parents in the way they threat children? I suspect it's a bit of that Johnny Neighbour is winging - make the right noises and he'll get over it. She's in for a shock!

I don't want to fell the Lyandii - I suspect the noise from the PLayground will be unbearable. :evil:

It would be so much easier for them to put the fencing on their side between the garage and wall - but with them having built almost right up to it and ending up with the guttering (not fitted yet) over the wall - it would almost be impossible.

Barbed wire - I did think about running it between the trunks, sort of figure of eight between 2 trunks, but obviously most of them - but would probably cut myself to ribbons! But even if it's behind the trees - (i.e. my side of the trees) - Why seriously inconvenience myself - for the selfishness\illegal actions of another.

Would it be possible to fell the trees, fit the fence and plant something that may come already at a height of say 1.5m tall? I suppose if the fence posts were just my side of the trees - but projected out to the wall - as it would be a post every 2.5m, this would be ok. A bit more growth and I wouldn't really see them and they wouldn't pose a problem for my children playing in the garden (at some point).

The problem is going to be there will be tons of roots for say a 2' radius of the trunks which will cause issue no matter which way one goes.


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

Update: Rang the School - the Head's only doing a few hrs here and there due to recovery from a knee operation. so spoke to the Deputy Head.

Pointed out what has happened - aka trespass & criminal damage to the trees. Not to mention the coping stones have been dislodged on a fair part of the wall - I did point out that if hit by a football or something and then fell on a child, the School would be looking to me, whereas the damage has been caused by their workmen.

Did throw the bit in about - happy to give permission but must be requested in advance, might need to agree matters in writing, take pictures or engage a surveyor to ensure no further damage takes place. This being being related but separate to dealing with the damage caused thus far.

Looks like they may well arrange a meeting between the School, me and the Project Manager - that'll be fun.

She did say she was going out to inform the workmen not to continue with any work that may have to be done on\near the wall.

If an Auger (portable or on the end of a digger) was used how much damage would it likely do to the trees if holes were dug every 2.5m for fence posts, fairly close to the trees?


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## matt (9 Mar 2010)

Is the security risk as real as I'm intepreting from this thread? You say the main purpose of having an enourmous barrier is to make a would be thief go elsewhere but, as things stand, they'd have to be in the school playground and climb a 6ft wall. Are most other houses in your area better protected?


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

matt":ltzm76ce said:


> Is the security risk as real as I'm intepreting from this thread? You say the main purpose of having an enourmous barrier is to make a would be thief go elsewhere but, as things stand, they'd have to be in the school playground and climb a 6ft wall. Are most other houses in your area better protected?



Let's put it this way - if they've been once, most folk say that you'll be targeted again.

Fair point - ordinarily I might say sod it - but part of me thinks why should I? The School's workmen have butchered the trees - reducing the almost impenetrable (previously) barrier , bar the last corner (which has now been addressed) to almost ineffective, to make *their *lives easier. And no doubt either save the School money or make the job more profitable - so why lie down and take it?

A lot of nearby houses are usually occupied during the day.


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## matt (9 Mar 2010)

But if they'd worked within the limit of the law you would still have only had some 1 or 2 ft bare stumps. Hardly impenetrable? In some respects their mistake has played in to your hands. You stand a chance of getting a fence out of them.


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

matt":20krksvg said:


> But if they'd worked within the limit of the law you would still have only had some 1 or 2 ft bare stumps. Hardly impenetrable? In some respects their mistake has played in to your hands. You stand a chance of getting a fence out of them.



If you look at the 1st photo I posted -






the several to the left have been trimmed back to the wall and there's plenty of greenery left on them - whilst the majority to the right have been cut right back to the trunk.

Bit simplistic I know - but if they'd trimmed all the trees back to the wall - I suspect the almost all would have plenty of greenery left. Believe me before there wasn't much of a chance of getting to the wall from my garden, going thru the trees - so probably as little coming the other way. Now a doddle.

I just could do without the headache - I have enough from the workshop, home and the garage yet to be done (& it's basement). :evil:


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## matt (9 Mar 2010)

The ones to the left look like they're overhanging the wall but quite a bit - enough to interfere with the building if the same were true in that section too. But that's just the photo. I guess you have to have seen it in reality too.


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

IIRC - they were more or less flush, a few inches in places if that. But will make a note to have a good luck. Either way - I suppose it's just a case of wait and see what develops. 

Damn shame I didn't spot the butchering a week ago when the roofers were on with the outbuilding's roof. Putting a halt to that would have been interesting. :shock:

I was expecting a call yesterday, didn't get one, told would get one today, but as the Head leaves around 16:00 - not likely today. Just wondering whether they want to try and get the work finished and then discuss - will have another look this evening and see if they've done any more work. If no contact by Thursday - then will either write to them myself - or perhaps get a solicitor to do it. Haven't got time to muck around, and reasonable only goes so far.


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## dazarooney (2 Nov 2010)

Some useful advice in here, saved me the research


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