# Which Scroll Saw......Help !



## alan_c

Hi All,
I am new to scroll sawing and wish to get myself one for around the £90 mark. 
I really am stuck as to which model to go for and any advice would be appreciated ?
The models which I have browsed on the internet are a few from Axminster (JET JSS-16 and Perform) and the Sealey one from tooled-up....
Would you recommend any of these at all ??
I have noticed that the JET model only has a 70 Watt motor by the way, is this ample power for most scrolling tasks ?
Thanks in advance for any help, can't wait to start some scrolling !
Alan.


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## Newbie_Neil

Hi Alan

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry I can't help with your question but someone will be along soon.

Cheers,
Neil


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## Anonymous

Just a quickie reply for you Alan.

I've just had a look at the 3 saws you mention and if you look closely you'll see they are all the same machine give or take a few changes. Same machine re-badging happens a lot with scroll saws as it does with most woodwork tools.


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## chrispuzzle

Alan-c - 

At that price range you might also want to look at the SIP 01373 which has impressed at shows, but we've yet to find a member of the forum who will own up to having bought one.

Best value according to most who have bought it (including me) is the Axminster AWFS18 which is twice as much as your budget, but is a high-end saw masquerading as a mid-priced saw.

Whatever you choose, have fun

Chris


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## Anonymous

Strangely enough Chris, I think the SIP you mention comes from the same mould as the others I mentioned.
There are differences between them like motor size,blower and knobs etc, but the base unit looks to be the same.
What do others think ?
Here's a pic of all 4.


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## chrispuzzle

Certainly very similar isn't it. Although different motors and table weights would give different performance.

For example the Jet is billed as being 20kg against the SIP's 14kg - that's quite a difference, while the Sealey has a much more powerful motor than the others in spite of looking identical to the Perform. 

I'm not convinced that the same case means it is the same saw inside. After all, SIP upgraded theirs after the first version went down like a lead balloon but they look almost identical from the outside.

That's not to say they are any of 'em better than each other, of course. Everybody knows which saw I use 

Chris


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## Gill

For my money it would be a straight choice between the SIP and the Jet. I've heard bad reports of the Perform and the Sealey isn't a brand I'm at all familiar with.

Jet does have its reputation to consider and I'd like to think that a quality brand wouldn't be associated with a poor machine. However, I've seen the Scheppach scroll saw which only hold pin headed blades :roll: so reputation is by no means a reliable guide to performance.

The nearest I've come to using any of these machines is seeing the upgraded SIP being demonstrated. It seemed to be okay on the 6mm plywood that was being cut and I know SIP have improved the blade changing system over the last few years. At the time, it was being retailed for £55 and was undoubtedly a bargain. Of the four, I'd opt for the SIP. There is a member here who owns one and he agrees it's a big step up from the Ferm he started out with.

That said, I know so many scrollers who like the AWFS18 that I'd seriously consider deferring a purchase if there was the prospect of being able to afford one in the near future. Of course, the money set aside for an AWFS18 should also incorporate a Hegner Quick Change Blade Clamp, an essential accessory.

Gill

PS Still using the Meccano saw, Chris  ?


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## Anonymous

Surprise surprise Gill. Does this Scheppach remind you of anything ?


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## Gill

:shock: 

All of which raises a pertinent question - out of the range of saws under consideration, is it only the SIP which accepts flat blades?

Gill


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## chrispuzzle

Gill":ydjr23fl said:


> Still using the Meccano saw, Chris  ?



Yes indeed. In fact it will be at the SKEGEX International Meccano Exhibition in Skegness this weekend, at the Embassy Centre on the seafront, hopefully cutting out puzzles of old Meccano Magazine cover art. If you want to see huge, virtuoso Meccano cranes, clocks, robots, trucks etc, and be reminded of the Best Toy Ever, then it's a delightful day out.

Here's the Meccano Mk II Scrollsaw:






Note the sophisticated parallel action and rubber band drive... :twisted: 

Chris


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## Anonymous

Fantastic piece of construction work Chris and it really takes me back to the 60's when as a kid I, like many, had a Meccano kit !


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## Anonymous

Gill":3qtmbm9w said:


> :shock:
> 
> All of which raises a pertinent question - out of the range of saws under consideration, is it only the SIP which accepts flat blades?
> 
> Gill



As buying a new budget saw is of great interest to newcomers I thought it worth looking into a bit more and here is what I found :

Jet JSS-16................................Accepts pin blades and plain end blades
Scheppach Deco401..................Dual sawblade brackets accept blades with or without pins. Blade changing is quick and simple.
Perform CCVFS MkII.................The machine takes both pinned and unpinned blades.
Sealey SM1302..........................Quick blade changing system.
Ryobi RSS-1216.........................Quick clamp system accepts both pin and plain end blades. Quick blade change via 'T' wrench provided.

To show the difference between blade holders on this 'Family' of machines, I found these photos :

First up is a Clarke and this has the early blade holders that accept pinned blades only. This type of holder is easily recognisable by it's chrome colour.





This next photo of a Sealey SM1302 clearly shows the updated blade holder that now accepts pinned and plain blades. This particular type is tightened with a hex tool for plain blades. Pinned blades simply hook over the very front lip of the holder.
All updated holders of this type appear to be black only so a good way to distinguish between this and the early chrome type if photo isn't clear.





Here's another brand to throw into the pot.... a Ryobi RSS-1216
This shows the updated blade holder for pinned and plain blades but this one (more sensibly in my opinion) is tightened with a hand knob !





It's worth noting that both early and updated holders simply bolt onto the arm and look to be interchangable.


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## Gill

That's news to me! The Scheppach I saw at a show last year was definitely fitted with a pin headed blade and I couldn't see how a flat blade could have been installed. In fact, I seem to recall the blade holding system was rather similar to that of the Clarke.

Perhaps saw manufacturers' claims that their saws are capable of taking both types need to be tested before purchase. I remember a couple of SIP demonstrators having to effectively dismantle their saw to change the blade a few years ago - the saw was subsequently withdrawn from the market while an improved blade holding system and other refinements were designed. There's no point having a saw which can accept flat blades if changing them is convoluted.

I know someone who uses a Ryobi. It's not a saw that you often see discussed in the UK but he's happy with it and often uses for work which is submitted to magazines.

Gill


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## Anonymous

Gill.....I daresay the holders you saw were the early ones.
Here's a pic taken from a Scheppach 401/2 PDF manual and shows the updated holders.





This strengthens the case that all these saws have the same mummy and daddy and are basically the same. 
It's no coincidence that when the blade holders were updated, all the different badged machines suddenly appear with the same holders !


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## Gill

Those holders are certainly different to the ones that I saw! As you say, Alan, all the saws in this price bracket are suspiciously similar.

Gill


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## scroller frank

With so many different saws, (badges), to choose from ,why isn't 
scrollsawing more popular?.  
after all they must sell them, or firms wouldn't bother to badge them up .
Or do "proper" woodworkers not admit to using one !!! 
-------------Frank-------------

ok ,ok i'll get me coat !!! :lol:


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## Anonymous

Ha ha Frank, we'll see just how many do own up to having one of these saws !
Mind you, owning a budget saw is nothing to be ashamed of as even low end scroll saws are very useful workshop tools.
My first introduction to scrollsawing many years ago was with a 'C' arm cast iron saw. These saws are quite aggressive and it certainly took a while to master it. 
The more I used it the more useful it became.
Here's a pic showing the saw type....





Once I had mastered it the biggest problem that remained was speed of blade changing which was painfully slow  
There was no way around the speed of blade changing so I went shopping for a new saw. That was around 1999 and the choice of saws available was much less than it is today. 
Having demoed various saws I opted to buy a Delta 2 speed saw with 'Quickset' blade holders. Wow, blade changing was now super fast and the saw was much quieter running too.
It's fair to say the Delta took me leaps and bounds into serious scrollsawing and it's a shame Delta no longer supply their saws to this country.I say 'shame' because it means that a pretty good quality saw that wasn't too expensive, is no longer available to the British buyer.

It's strange to note that around the time Delta pulled out of the UK, a lot of budget saws hit the market all of a very similar design but sporting different brand badges !!
The sheer amount of different brand names selling the same basic saw is incredible and I make no excuse for pointing this out. I won't even attempt to list them as I don't have the time to do it !
What I will do is list genuinely different saw designs that are unique to the name.
I'm not sure just how many pure brands of scroll saw there are but here is my attempt at listing them and I welcome input from others if I've made a boo boo or omitted any :lol: 

Delta
DeWalt
Diamond
Eclipse
Excalibur (Latest saws are based on DeWalt mechanism due to tie in somewhere)
RBI Hawk
Hegner

Oh my brain hurts as it's 3 in the morning so I'll finish now.


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## Gill

Are we allowed to add the SIP and Axminster to your list, or don't they count as pure-bred  ? Perhaps we should be asking for a certificate of pedigree as well as a receipt when we buy a scroll saw. Heck we could even have our own scroll saw show, a bit like Crufts :lol: !

To my embarrassment, I've also got an old Spiralux, my first ever scroll saw which I purchased back in 1990. It operates on an electromagnetic principle and has so much vibration it should be retailed through Ann Summers  ! Hmmmm... perhaps not; the depth of cut is minimal. Nevertheless, it's undeniably a scroll saw.

Gill


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## Anonymous

Gill":wzslbtt9 said:


> Are we allowed to add the SIP and Axminster to your list, or don't they count as pure-bred  ?
> 
> To my embarrassment, I've also got an old Spiralux, my first ever scroll saw which I purchased back in 1990.
> Gill



The Axminster is a blatant Hegner rip-off so doesn't make the list as a pure-bred in my book. This is no reflection on the saw itself which is highly rated and deservedly so.

As far as I'm aware, SIP only have 2 main designs of scroll saw in their tool range. These are the same 2 designs that are sold by many other brand names of which I list a few here:

Clarke
Jet
Nu-Tools
Ryobi
Perform
Record
Scheppach
Sealey
SIP

It's anyone's guess who (if any) of the above paid for R&D of the 2 saw designs. Because of this and the generic nature of the designs, it's difficult to credit any one of these brands as supplying a pure-bred saw.

How could I have missed Spiralux out ! :wink:


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## alan_c

Thanks for all your replies.
After humming and harring for many hours I've gone and ordered myself a SIP from toolstation. Hopefully it should make a nice first scroll saw.
We shall see anyway !
Alan.


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## Willow

Interested in *Alan- AKA The Woodman's *comment "The Axminster is a blatant Hegner rip-off so doesn't make the list as a pure-bred in my book." 

Is it a rip-off or is it made by Hegner for Axminster? A friend who had tried my Hegner bought the AWFS18 on it looking very much like my machine. Although I haven't seen the 2 side by side, I am sure they are from the same stable. As a very satisfied user of the Hegner I would say that the Axminster clone is as good. In fact, it is better, it is *MUCH* cheaper. 

I have had the Hegner for about 12 years and at the time it was bought there was little choice in good quality scroll saws. Especially when its required use was taken into consideration. However, it was expensive back then and out of interest have just had a look at the current prices. I am glad the computer chair has arms, they stopped me from hitting the deck. 

It is in regular use, often on a daily basis as part of my work but, it has never let me down once. Over the 12 years it has given excellent and faultless service. Maybe that accounts for the price. However, given today's competition, it is an expensive machine. 
Willow


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## Anonymous

Willow":32jyho3z said:


> Interested in *Alan- AKA The Woodman's *comment "The Axminster is a blatant Hegner rip-off so doesn't make the list as a pure-bred in my book."
> 
> Is it a rip-off or is it made by Hegner for Axminster? A friend who had tried my Hegner bought the AWFS18 on it looking very much like my machine. Although I haven't seen the 2 side by side, I am sure they are from the same stable. As a very satisfied user of the Hegner I would say that the Axminster clone is as good. In fact, it is better, it is *MUCH* cheaper.
> 
> Willow



Hi Willow,
A little while back I seem to remember someone here saying that Hegner let the design patent lapse and explains why an almost identical clone, the Axminster, came to market.


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## Gill

Somebody at a woodwork show (it was an SIP rep IIRC) told me that the Hegner patents had expired and Axminster had taken advantage.

Gill


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## Willow

Explains the likeness. Shame it didn't happen 12 years ago. It would have saved me some money.


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## scroller frank

a friend had bought a budget saw for around £25.00 (about 1995 ish) ,
it vibrated so much,he had to follow it round his workshop, and try to keep up with it :lol: 
so when i went to buy my first saw ,the choice was Delta or some chinese
make , not unlike the one in Alans picture ,so remembering my friend's i came home with the Delta !!!  the quick change blade alone is worth the extra ££'s , it's a great saw --i think --- reasonably quiet ,and smooth, ---------so i bought another , a variable speed this time !!! they do come up on ebay from time to time, i also would like to try a DeWalt 788 and the Axminster Hegner copy ! i also heard Hegners patent had expired ! but not had it confirmed .
also aquierd a hobby's treadle saw, an A1 abought 1920 vintage !! Ebay again !!!
At least there is a lot of choise nowdays , y pays yer money --------------------------------!!!!!!


Happy scrolling --------Frank-------------------


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## Willow

Hi Frank, 

I was once treated to the delights of the type of beast in Alan's picture and have referred to it on another thread. It was in a school workshop where I was running a night class and although bolted down to a fixed bench that ran the length of the room, it felt as though it was would pull the bench from the wall (or the wall from the school). 

We were meant to be using it for 12th scale miniatures but as I have mentioned elsewhere, we would have got better results using a bandsaw with a rip blade. How the kids were meant to use it, goodness knows. 

It was one of those things that has left a lasting impression. There wasn't a lot of choice back then. 

Willow


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## Anonymous

Willow":k5tuik5p said:


> Hi Frank,
> 
> It was one of those things that has left a lasting impression.
> 
> Willow



Especially when a blade broke eh Willow !!
The clatter of the top arm after blade breakage is an experience not to be recommended.
I'd liken it to that moment after a near miss in a car at high speed when your heart misses a beat and then goes ten to the dozen


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## Gill

I'd liken it to that moment when you've been scrolling for half an hour and start thinking, "These blades normally only last twenty minutes. I'm going to have to start thinking about changing this one soon... BANG!... now."

:lol: 

Gill


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## don83000

I be a newby on here and am looking at purchasing a new saw I almost purchased a Clarke yesterday but then read your reviews so ran like hell from MM. Now I have come accross the following and would like your advice.
Einhell TH-SS 405E 120W Scroll Saw

:? 

Cheers Don.


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## Claymore

Hi Don,
If you look back on some of my previous posts about Parkside Scrollsaw from Lidl..... they sent me a replacement from Einheil and it was the same model you mention and basically it was as bad as the Parkside in fact i flogged it for £25 to someone who wanted a motor as it just wouldn't cut smooth even with the best blades and bolted down to the very solid bench it shook like mad.
I know now i have said this there will be people who own one and their works fine but having had 2 the same and both were rubbish i wouldn't risk buying another (they may be lucky and managed to get one that works but i doubt it)
I now have an Axminster which is lovely but much more expensive and alot for people to plash out on if they are just starting off with scrolling... you could try finding a good used one on Ebay. I have seen some lovely work done on a Jet branded saw and there are plenty of others to go at, some of the other guys on here should have more info.
Sorry it was good news about the Einhell but when you see my other posts it will explain the problems.
Cheers and welcome to the forum
Brian
Ps I'm a newbie and still learning so your not alone but the guys on here are very helpful and know what they are talking about.


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## don83000

Many thanks that was a close shave as I already had it my Amazon basket but no longer I will now go look to see the price of the Axminster and the Jet and maybe some others may get look in as yet.


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## don83000

Ok looks like I have found the one if others agree a Jet JSS-16 ?. Are the Pegas blades any good ?.


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## Walney Col

Jet generally have a pretty good reputation but the JSS 16 I got from axminster this summer was a right pile of rubbish and went back.

http://www.seafax.co.uk/index.php?id=jet-jss-16-scroll-saw-review
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/jet-jss-16-first-cuts-t81176.html


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