# Keeping maple white



## billw (26 Apr 2009)

Hi

I've made a hall table out of maple and I am looking for a finish that will keep it as white as possible whilst bringing out the grain as there are some lovely patterns on the wood.

I've searched the archives but there don't appear to be any recent posts on the subject and I'm conscious of the possibility that there may be some more recent products that would do the job.

One of the main considerations is the ease of applying the finish as I will be doing it at home where I don't have any workshop facilities. Oh and more to the point, this is the first bit of furniture I've made!


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## JonnyD (26 Apr 2009)

I would suggest you use an acylic based varnish which will keep the maple as white as possible. If you want too after varnishing you could lightly denib the surface and finish with liberon neutral colour black bison wax which doesnt change the colour and leaves a nice surface. If the table isnt going to get a large ammount of use you could just use the neutral wax as the finish.

Finishing oils are another option and a nice easy finish to apply but tend to send the maple and light woods slightly yellow. There are other ways of doing it using spraying techniques or shellac but these are probably a bit advanced for a first piece offurniture.

Jon


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## Doctor (26 Apr 2009)

Whatever you finish it with, it will yellow over time. I love the look of fresh maple but once its yellowed it looks very ordinary.
I speak as someone who has a maple kitchen and wishes he hadn't.


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## BradNaylor (26 Apr 2009)

Doctor":ma0j8cwt said:


> Whatever you finish it with, it will yellow over time. I love the look of fresh maple but once its yellowed it looks very ordinary.
> I speak as someone who has a maple kitchen and wishes he hadn't.



I believe B&Q have got some good offers on replacement doors.

:wink: 

Brad


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## MikeG. (26 Apr 2009)

Doctor":36qqitqk said:


> Whatever you finish it with, it will yellow over time.



Rustins Plastic Coating (and presumably any other 2 part lacquer, therefore) doesn't. It stays the same colour as when applied...... Not only is that my experience, but the manufacturers confirm this. It goes on very pale, and stays that way.

Mike


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## wizer (26 Apr 2009)

what about an ultra clear shellac as a base?


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## BradNaylor (26 Apr 2009)

Mike Garnham":88yx4rsr said:


> Doctor":88yx4rsr said:
> 
> 
> > Whatever you finish it with, it will yellow over time.
> ...



I think you're confusing two phenomia, Mike.

Yellowing is caused in all woods by most laquers. This is the tendancy of the film of laquer to yellow in time, so changing the perceived colour of the wood beneath. You are quite right that certain lacquers, such as Rustins PC and most water-bourne finishes do not have this effect.

The other phenominum is the natural mellowing in colour which all woods exhibit to differing degrees on exposure to light over time. In many woods this is not that noticable but in others it is dramatic, most notably in cherry.

Maple turns yellow in time due to the effect of light on the wood. It happens if there is no finish at all on the wood and the effect will be accentuated by certain lacquers.

There is no lacquer available however, which will prevent it.

Cheers
Brad


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## MikeG. (26 Apr 2009)

Yep Brad, you are right......and I was aware of that when I posted. My quick posting was about the finish, rather than the underlying wood. Presumably one would require a UV resistant finish to achieve the anti-yellowing effect to the timber.

Mike


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## Doctor (26 Apr 2009)

BradNaylor":w86u25k2 said:


> I believe B&Q have got some good offers on replacement doors.
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Brad



Sorry Brad what is B&Q, never heard of it, do you buy a lot of doors from there?

As mentioned before, the wood will yellow whatever.
2 pack lacquers will yellow with age unless the catalyst has an anti yellowing agent in.

The way around it is to put a mist coat of white over the wood, then put a lacquer on top, not recommended unless your spraying is excellent.


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## billw (26 Apr 2009)

Doctor":3r437i8p said:


> Sorry Brad what is B&Q, never heard of it, do you buy a lot of doors from there?



Sarcasm I'm sure 

So in essence, from what I read so far I can't necessarily avoid the wood going yellow through natural process, but I can pick a finish that will not in itself causing yellowing. 

I'll do some googling....

ps Doctor - what's the car in your avatar?


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## Ironballs (26 Apr 2009)

Bill - hello, Damian here, I'll bring a bottle of Polyvine brush on acrylic wax finish varnish to class tomorrow. I used it on my table and the maple parts have stayed pretty white so far, you can have a play and see what you think


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## Harbo (28 Apr 2009)

There's an article in the latest PW about Finishes for Colour.
Basically the least colouring finish is clear paste wax, followed by waterbased finish then nitrocellulose finish.......varnish and oils.
Some products (water based) do not colour but darken the wood and some "clear/pale" products also contain pigments which can colour.
Oils generally darken with age - boiled linseed more than tung.

An interesting read.

Rod


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## yetloh (29 Apr 2009)

I agree with most of what has been written about this. I wrote an article about the problems of colour change for Furniture and Cabinetmaking a couple of years ago, following quite extensive research and a practical experiment. This looked at a range of finishes on samples of a number of different timbers and included assessments of the colour added by the finish itself, the effect of the finish on lustre (the natural reflectivity of wood which is so important to its beauty) and the effect of exposure to light on both of these qualities.

All the finishes added some colour. The finishes adding the least colour were the water borne acrylic, Barford’s Aquacote and Morrell’s pre-catalysed melamine lacquer. However, the Aquacote also had quite a significant detrimental effect on lustre due to its slight milkiness. I understand Aquacoat may no longer be available. More recently, I have tried General Finishes’ High Performance water based lacquer (from Classic Handtools) which uses polyurethane rather than acrylic, and was the top rated water borne finish in a test by Fine Woodworking. Disappointingly I rate this no higher than Aquacoat, although it may be more durable. Blonde shellac added quite a lot more colour and is, of course, much less robust.

As part of the experiment, one sample of each timber/finish combination was pre-treated with a coat of clear sunscreen (Garnier Ambre Solaire clear factor 30). The results were interesting. The sunscreen had no effect on colour change except in the case of sycamore where, subjectively, it was pretty much 100% effective. It seemed to have no adverse effect on adhesion of the finish except in the case of the Aquacote. The experiment did not include a maple sample, but maple and sycamore are quite closely related so it may be worth experimenting.

However the amount of light related colour change is directly related to levels of light exposure which my article does go into. Many hallways are subject to quite low light levels, in which case, colour change would be pretty slow. If that is the case, I would go with the finish giving the combination of colour, lustre and durability which best meets your needs. I keep coming back to pre-catalysed lacquer for pale coloured woods for exactly that reason. I am able to spray it although it can be applied by brush if you work fast and are prepared to cut back to eliminate marks; in this context it helps that it is a high build finish. The real downside is that being cellulose based it is not pleasant to work with (outdoors is best) and is not eco-friendly given its very high VOC content.

I am happy to email a Word copy of the article to anyone who is interested if you send me a PM.

Jim


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## Ironballs (30 Apr 2009)

I remember that article Jim and still keep going back to it, very comprehensive it was too. A good piece and well researched


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## yetloh (30 Apr 2009)

Glad you liked it and found it useful. I was planning a follow up on water based finishes generally, but, having tried the General Finishes product and found it nor to be a significant improvement there doesn't seem much point.

Jim


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## BradNaylor (4 May 2009)

I'm intrigued!

I am going to try spraying a couple of pieces of maple with Morrells AC lacquer tomorrow, applying sun tan lotion to one of them first.

I shall let you know what happens in a month or so!

Cheers
Brad


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## Doctor (4 May 2009)

Try 3 Dunc, put a mist coating of white over the maple before spraying. See how it compares in a month


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## yetloh (5 May 2009)

Nice one, Brad, look forward to hearing the result, give it as much sunlight as possible.

Jim


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## GrahamRounce (25 May 2009)

"I am happy to email a Word copy of the article to anyone who is interested if you send me a PM."

Hi Jim - I've sent you a PM!
Thanks!


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## wizer (25 May 2009)

GrahamRounce":1yzdmxm5 said:


> Hi Jim - I've sent you a PM!



Yes and I sent one on the 29th April.


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