# Japanese Chisels



## mn pete (8 Sep 2013)

I acquired this set several years ago from Japan Woodworker (?) I don't use them often, but when I do they are fantastic. I think I might baby them too much, so I don't always think to grab them. Do any of you use Japanese chisels as your regular go-to's?

http://secondwindworkshop.blogspot.com/ ... -nomi.html


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## Corneel (8 Sep 2013)

Yesr, I have 5 chisels from Tools from Japan, made by Koyamaichi. They are great, very good edge holding. I don't baby them, even grind them on the dry grinder when neccessary. The only thing they didn't like was morticing in hard wood. Chopping dovetails in very hard wood is no problem though.


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## Harbo (8 Sep 2013)

My favourite chisels are my Matsumura Blue Steel ones:






Closely followed by my Ashley Iles's.

Rod


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## mn pete (8 Sep 2013)

Looks like I need to stop babying them so much and give them more action! I do like the feel of the handle in relation to the iron for any paring operations. I may need to build another chisel rack so that they're out on the bench and not tucked in the drawer.


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## tim burr (8 Sep 2013)

Use mine on site


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## mn pete (10 Sep 2013)

I'm going to start working with them a lot more. Funny thing is that I've seen other woodworkers treat them rather preciously too. I've read lots of comments about how they're special and they only use them in certain circumstances. Seems kind of silly...I mean Japanese woodworkers have been producing amazing woodwork for centuries, right?!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (10 Sep 2013)

This may make you feel better about using your chisels harder, a comparison of 4 different steels in chisels ...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... pared.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Jacob (10 Sep 2013)

mn pete":3np7l0ix said:


> .....I mean Japanese woodworkers have been producing amazing woodwork for centuries, right?!


Not really. Amazing timber architecture and carving but not a lot in the way of fine furniture and other small scale stuff, as compared to the European traditions. The fact that they've stayed in the middle ages is no criticism BTW - I love it and I'm not a great admirer of the very English "Arts n Cratfs" movement.


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## Corneel (10 Sep 2013)

There are quite some Japanese fine furniture makers! And making fancy little boxes is in their heritage too.

A traditional Japanese home is a lot more empty then a western house. But the few things they do have, are quite impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85GrCHbdaJ4&list=PL0EE69A1875DE0619


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## Sheffield Tony (11 Sep 2013)

I watched those videos with interest. Thanks. Some impressive skill there. 

I have spent some time in Japan and have friends over there. As a result I have a few bits of Japanese woodwork in my house; a small chest of drawers and a turned bowl amongst them, which look very similar wood to the sort he's using. What is it ? The outer parts of the set of drawers look quite like the wood I have a bowl made from, and it is quite lightweight. The insides of the drawers, if my set are to go by, are even lighter, not a lot harder then balsa ! It reminds me of the very carefully selected wood they gave us to use for "O" level woodwork practical exams - very soft and easy to work, yet cuts cleanly. I've seen other videos of dovetailing made look very easy by Japanese craftsmen - I wonder how they'd get on with a bit of oak or elm.


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## Corneel (11 Sep 2013)

A Japanese plane is made from oak. At the end of this vid you can see Japanese planemekaer chopping the mortice with Jap chisles. 

http://vimeo.com/50132571

I remember seeing a picture from a wood merchants yard in Japan, with piles of Ebony trees. It's a bit of a myth that the Japanese only work in soft woods.

But if you want to see some really exceptional Asian furniture, you should study ancient Chinese stuff.

I know very little about these cultures, but I do admire it.


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## CaptainBarnacles (12 Sep 2013)

I have had a few Japanese chisels for years and despite having "replaced" them with a set LN bench chisels I can't bring myself to part with my Japanese chisels. I can't tell you what it is but sometimes I'll just instinctively reach for a Japanese chisel because I know it will work better in that situation. Don't get me wrong, I really love the LN chisels and I'm sure they will do everything I need to do. I might just need re-programming but for now I'll be hanging on to my Japanese chisels.

FWIW I was in Uppertown Tools in Bakewell a few years ago looking at their Japanese Chisels and the salesperson told me that they sold lots of them, particularly the larger sizes - 1.25",1.5" etc - to fencing contractors. They were out in the fields bashing the heck out of them and they still stayed sharp and remained in one piece. Since hearing that I haven't babied them so much.


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## tobytools (11 Feb 2015)

Harbo":20d61596 said:


> My favourite chisels are my Matsumura Blue Steel ones:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




can you show me what the symbol on the chisel is please 

TT


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## mathias (11 Feb 2015)

Sounds quite exotic, japanese blue steel etc.

I had a conversation with someone extremly interested in knifes and knife steel and according to him:

-Hitachi white steel is equel to swedish (yes we're both swedish...) Sandvik 13c26 or uddeholm AEB-L.
-Eric Anton Berg chisels and plane irons equals SIS1770/AISI1070. One do have to include the fabrication method and heat treatment but still the raw material isn't that "high tech".

Edit: spelling


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## Harbo (12 Feb 2015)

Very tiny symbols may have to resort to a better camera rather than my phone:







"Aogami Hagane means 'blue steel' and is a more complex steel than Shirogami Hagane or 'white steel'. Blue steel edged tools give the most durable edge possible, particularly in hard abrasive woods. Each chisel is forge-welded by hand from a combination of Hitachi blue steel and wrought iron, cured in charcoal for several days, and then individually tempered to Rc65. The handles are made of the finest quality Akagashi (Japanese Red Oak) and fitted with hand-forged iron hoops. Over 40 seperate processes are required to make each chisel, including the razor edge. Overall length is 9", with a blade lendgth of 2-1/4". 

The Matsumura Family has been producing woodworking chisels for well over 200 years. Mr. Shigezo Matsumura began his apprenticeship at the age of 15 and exhibited such skill that by the age of 25 he was able to open his own workshop. For over 60 years, first as an apprentice and now as a true Master of Blacksmiths, Mr. Matsumura has made chisels one at a time in the old tradition, preferring to use charcoal instead of gas in the forging and tempering process, because of its 'sof heat,' and only the finest white and blue steels for the cutting edges, which are laminated to wrought iron for strength. All cutting edges are tempered to Rc65 and sharpened for immediate use. Note: Mr. Matsumura operates a one-man shop and personally makes each tool, with occasional assist from his wife"

Rod


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## tobytools (13 Feb 2015)

Harbo":21q7xi8k said:


> Very tiny symbols may have to resort to a better camera rather than my phone:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



thanks mate, beautiful chisels, 
im being pulled into japanese chisels and saws more and more hess days.. just when i started to hit flat ground. 
the chisels you have can be brought at japanesewoodworker, would you reccoment them above any map chisel that can be had in the uk?

thanks
TT


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## nicguthrie (14 Feb 2015)

I've been in love with Japanese steel since I got my laminated marking knife, the edge that steel can take, and how easy it is to get there, is phenomenal.

I find chisel work to be very enjoyable with well sharpened chisels, love to "get in the zone" and just blank the world out till the job's done, and it's so much easier when your tools are doing precisely what you want them to do.

Has anyone got a recommendation for a not-ridiculously-expensive decent quality starter Japanese chisel set that I can get incrementally? I don't need a full set to start, nor can I afford one. I'm not interested in the HSS or toughened alloy versions I've seen (Rutlands has one perennially on sale), but I'm open to blue or white paper steel.

Any advice from you guys that actually use them would be appreciated 

Nic.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Feb 2015)

> Has anyone got a recommendation for a not-ridiculously-expensive decent quality starter Japanese chisel set that I can get incrementally?



Hi Nic

Go to either _Tools From Japan_ or _Lee Valley_ and get the Koyamaichi dovetail chisels. Dovetail chisels are just bench chisels with narrow lands - they are as tough as ordinary bench chisels, but more versatile.

Koyamaichi are the best bang for the buck. I've used them for about 10 years now, from before they became "known". I've had Matsumura, and the Koyamaichi are better and about the same price. (Sorry Rod).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Harbo (14 Feb 2015)

Thats OK Derek - I've just read some of the old tests/reviews - mine have never suffered any edge chipping.
Also wasn't yours made from white steel?

Rod


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## richarnold (14 Feb 2015)

Has anyone got a recommendation for a not-ridiculously-expensive decent quality starter Japanese chisel set that I can get incrementally? I don't need a full set to start, nor can I afford one. I'm not interested in the HSS or toughened alloy versions I've seen (Rutlands has one perennially on sale), but I'm open to blue or white paper steel.

Any advice from you guys that actually use them would be appreciated 

Nic.[/quote
Hi If you are looking for something for fine cabinet work I have been using a set of these for about 25 years now, and have no complaints. They have a balance and feel of a European chisel, and are a lot lighter than a traditional Japanese chisel. I perhaps would not bother with the two smaller sizes as I have found these to still be a bit bulky for fine work.
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/product ... h-3-mm.htm


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## mathias (14 Feb 2015)

Harbo":22ofbugl said:


> ......"Aogami Hagane means 'blue steel' and is a more complex steel than Shirogami Hagane or 'white steel'. Blue steel edged tools give the most durable edge possible, particularly in hard abrasive woods...........
> Rod



I went through a pile of copies and found a copy from ShopNotes No93, p.50 where they compare white and blue steel:

"*Differences*. From practical woodworking standpoint the difference between blue steel and white steel is very slight.White steel is said to be a little easier to sharpen. And due to the fineness of the molecular structure, it will take a slightly sharper edge. A tool from blue steel will hold an edge slightly longer than one made from white steel but not indefinitely. It will also be a little less prone to rust.
But be aware that these differences are subtle, and something you may not even notice until spending a fair amount of time using and comparing tools made from both types of tools. It is also important to keep in mind that the type of steel used is only one ingredient in the overall quality of a tool. The skill and experience of the toolmaker is a much more important factor than what color steel is used to make the tool".


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## Jacob (14 Feb 2015)

mathias":3h69sndj said:


> .....
> "*Differences*. From practical woodworking standpoint the difference between blue steel and white steel is very slight........


Seems to be true across the board - makes little difference what the steel is (within reason).


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## iNewbie (14 Feb 2015)

White Steel or Blue Steel Derek? Thanks.


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## mathias (14 Feb 2015)

As said in the article I quoted, the toolmaker is import. Perhaps even more than to steel he uses?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Feb 2015)

iNewbie":3vqm62xj said:


> White Steel or Blue Steel Derek? Thanks.



I would not get too concerned about white vs blue steel. How the smith forges the blades is going to make more of a difference. 

Unless you already have bench chisels, the paring chisels (slicks) are for later. Good bench chisels will do double duty if the hoops are set correctly. I cannot emphasise this enough - unset hoops are uncomfortable to hold. 

Here is a short comment on my website about the Koyamaichi: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... isels.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## iNewbie (15 Feb 2015)

mathias":2qt3pumf said:
 

> As said in the article I quoted, the toolmaker is import. Perhaps even more than to steel he uses?



The Koma chisels Derek recommended come in Blue & White Steel, hence my question to him, him having recommended them. Hope that clears that up.

Thank you Derek.


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## yetloh (16 Feb 2015)

I have been using the basic Iyoroi white steel chisels for many years and they are excellent. I also have a set of 10 Suminagashi which are pure joy to behold and to use which I confess I don't use every day. They were a present from my indulgent wife. Bought from Classic Hamd Tools they are now 50% more expensive - not sure I'd get them now!

Jim


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