# Chisels



## MattMoore (7 Oct 2005)

Hi all,
just a quick questions about chisels, the marples chiselsi currently use are useless, to the extent where the edge has gone dull within a few light hits with the hammer, im pretty sure it isnt my sharpening technique, as a couple of old chisels i have, their edges seem to keep going and going.
now as im on site most days and very rarely in the workshop, i really want a set of chisels who's edges will last well, and also ones that come fairly flat. the marples took what seems like forever to get flat.
alot of the time the chisels will be used with a hammer, so the handles will need to be upto that.
any ideas of a brand of chisel that will be everything im after?
cheers
Matt


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## Alf (7 Oct 2005)

I'll be interested on the answers to this myself. StewieH's disappointment got me wondering what I'd suggest instead, and I realised I hadn't a clue. Are those Bacho ones any good?

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":2jveuo2z said:


> I'll be interested on the answers to this myself. StewieH's disappointment got me wondering what I'd suggest instead, and I realised I hadn't a clue. Are those Bacho ones any good?
> Cheers, Alf


The best carpenter's chisels out there that I can find are the Stanley #60 with the Stanloid handles capped with a steel button. Tough and the handles can handle a framing hammer. It is possible, in the states anyway, to find some of these Sheffield-made chisels sitting on shelves in obscure stores.

I have some '60s and '70s vintage Sandvik/Bahco and they are pretty darn good chisels, though not as tough.

I also have some NOS Bahco I bought from ePay for worksite chisels. I think they are late '80s/early '90s vintage. Definitely not of the same quality as the older ones if ground at the same angle. I reground them to 30* with a few degree secondary bevel and they have held up pretty good.


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## Frank D. (7 Oct 2005)

My favorite commercially made chisel is a Marples Ridgeway, about 20 years old; it shouldn't be too difficult for you to find in the UK (used). It (I only have one) has a slight tendency to chip once in a while, but the edge lasts a long, long time. I don't have that many chisels, mind you, but it does hold its edge considerably better than my Sandviks with the plastic handles and my Pfeils. I've been looking for more of them but haven't managed to find any yet.


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## engineer one (8 Oct 2005)

my personal experience in terms of recent use by heavy handed people leads me to the no longer made dutch brand nooitgedagt. swedish steel,
easy to flatten and sharpen, and a friend of mine has used some i sharpened in July until now without a touch up.

mine were found at a discount store since the dutch firm was bought out by american tool and the manufacture there discontinued. seems to be happening too much.

i have a set of the latest plastic handled, but most expensive bahco,
not sure about belting them with a hammer though. the edge is sharp
but so far i have not used them in a site basis everyday and all day so cant say.

i think as every one has suggested unless you buy new sorby or such like, then you have to hunt older stuff since it lasts longer. the other thing is once you have sorted an edge to carry a stone for on site honing.

seems that as usual the accountants have gotten to the chisels too.

interesting thought many of those products made in china and india are hand finished which means they are not consistent and may differ from the inscribed sizes since they are not checked so well.
final two thoughts
japanese stuff, even the cheaper ones sold by axminster etc seem to keep and edge and be designed for belting, otherwise you have to pay mega bucks for LN.

who knows whether this helps
paul :lol:


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

engineer one":2hye32ag said:


> unless you buy new sorby or such like


New Sorby's aren't a guarantee of much either, unfortunately. 

Cheers, Alf


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## MattMoore (8 Oct 2005)

well i always do carry a diamond stone on site with me, but for one reason or another, the backs always seem to move from sharpening to sharpening, 
so imfinding my self having to flatten the back for 5-10 mins or so, and then as soon as i have installed 2 doors or so, the edge has gone and is in need of sharpening again. 
i have looked at sorby's but in light of a recent thread im not too sure on them anymore, 
i think old is the way to go, but finding a decent set with metal hoops on the ends of the handles seems harder than finding hens teeth, 
well the places i have looked anyway

Cheers all


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## Anonymous (8 Oct 2005)

Japanese chisels are the best bet if you want to beat them to death with a hammer. 

They'll just laugh at your puny efforts with the hammer as their edge glints in the sunlight


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## Chris Knight (8 Oct 2005)

Tony":14bb1fsn said:


> Japanese chisels are the best bet if you want to beat them to death with a hammer.
> 
> They'll just laugh at your puny efforts with the hammer as their edge glints in the sunlight



Tony,

I have to disagree. Perhaps it's true for some Japanese chisels but for many, all that is going to be glinting are the fractured edges of the blade. They are typically a good deal harder than western chisels and the edges will crumble when hammering them in hardwood, especially if any leverage is applied to loosen chips.

They were designed originally primarily for use in softwood and in my experience, that is where they are best applied. I know there are some Japanese chisels that are made for the western markets that are in HSS and these are probably OK being hammered.

Generally, I see no need for hoops on the handles of chisels. Handles are easily replaced and if made of a decent bit of wood, they can be walloped for years with a mallet before this is necessary anyway.


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

waterhead37":2eqc83r9 said:


> ...especially if any leverage is applied...


That would seem to me the biggest disadvantage to them for site use; what would you open the paint cans with instead? :-k :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Chris Knight (8 Oct 2005)

Alf":t9tq4hv4 said:


> That would seem to me the biggest disadvantage to them for site use; what would you open the paint cans with instead? :-k :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Dunno, plane iron? - but loved it when Tage Frid did this when tool freaks got him annoyed!


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## Philly (8 Oct 2005)

Chris
Maybe I've been lucky, but my Jap chisels hold up really well when being hammered into hardwoods. 
Just goes to show-buying chisels is a minefield :roll: 
Philly


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## Chris Knight (8 Oct 2005)

Philly,

Watch out for some crumbly Jap chisels on ebay  

Perhaps I didn't pay enough for them?


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## Anonymous (8 Oct 2005)

Chris

As you say, designed originally for softwwod.

However, like Philly's mine are used mainly oak and ash and I beat the hell out of them without chipping. (I would not dream of striking my AIs with such force :shock: )

They were a cheap set from Dieter Schmidt and hold their edge for absolutely ages even with this harsh treatment

I stand by my post (as far as my japanese chisels go anyway)


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

Well I must admit, I've not noticed any trouble with mine in hardwoods either. But to be fair, I haven't used them much.

Cheers, Alf


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## Philly (8 Oct 2005)

Chris
Some of mine were from Tilgear, the rest (including dovetail and parers) from Axminster. As you already know, any levering results in a cracking (yes, pun intended) chip, along with much cursing! :lol: Got a nice 2 inch one which is great for defining shoulders, etc.
They are pretty reasonably priced (especially compared to L-N's and Victors :wink: ) and really the only chisels I could recommend. Well, along with a couple of Marples for opening paint tins, etc :lol: 
Cheers
Philly


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## trevtheturner (9 Oct 2005)

I often read references to hammering chisels. Is this just a commonly used general term or do some people actually strike chisel handles with a hammer?

I have always understood that the correct tool to use for striking chisel handles is a wooden mallet and that, if the chisel is sharp, this is sufficient. My practice is always to use said mallet. Works for me and I cannot recall having taken an 'ammer to a chisel.

(Advantages of using a mallet: it's got a big 'ead so you don't often miss, and it won't damage the chisel handles).

Just wondering what others do?

Cheers,

Trev.


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## Johnboy (9 Oct 2005)

I always use a "dead blow" mallet for striking chisels. Doesn't damage the chisel and no rebound.

John


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## MikeW (9 Oct 2005)

For myself, I strike them with something handy :lol: 

Sometimes it is a wood mallet. Sometimes it is a carver's (round) mallet, either a coated one or a wood one. Sometimes it is one of two brass hammers.

And sometimes it's a scrap of wood.

Mostly I never strike a chisel, rather choosing to pare with one instead.

Unless I'm playing carpenter and using my Stanley #60s. Then it's a framing and or a finish hammer...

Somehow I'm not certain this helps :roll: 

Mike


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## Alf (9 Oct 2005)

I've always believed the rule of thumb was:
Handles with metal hoops - hit 'em wiv' an 'ammer if you like
Bench chisels/firmers/butt etc - mallet, round or square as preferred
Paring chisels - thou shalt not hit them on pain of pain
Plastic handled site chisels - do what you jolly well like 'cos nothing's gonna make 'em worse. :wink: 

As I understand it, it always used to be, at least in the UK, "thou shalt not use a hammer on chisels - period". But the poly-placy-tacky-urethene handles made a feature of the fact you could, thus confusing everyone. And then the Japanese habit of using a hammer on everything upset it all too. Personally I stick rigidly with only using a mallet, mainly 'cos I so rarely have a hammer to hand anyway. For some reason I can't get on with the dead blow at all, despite repeated tries.

Cheers, Alf


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (9 Oct 2005)

Matt wrote:


> ... the marples chiselsi currently use are useless, to the extent where the edge has gone dull within a few light hits with the hammer ... i really want a set of chisels who's edges will last well, and also ones that come fairly flat. the marples took what seems like forever to get flat.
> alot of the time the chisels will be used with a hammer, so the handles will need to be upto that.



Matt, the simple answer may be to just increase the bevel angle of your Marples chisels. Cheap fix!

A chisel whose edge will last forever, eh? Well I'm sure you could get something made in M2 steel, but you will have a lot of fun sharpening them  

Everything is a compromise. A hard steel holds an edge but is tough to hone. A moderate steel hold an edge for a moderate/reasonable period of time but is easier to hone.

Like MikeW, I keep a set of Stanley 60's for rough work (actually, they were the first chisels I bought). Alternately, I have several vintage framing chisels (Mathiesons, Ibbotsons, amongst others). Of the vintage chisels I own, the Witherbys have the toughest steel, but I do not think that you would want these for a building site!

Alf wrote:


> I've always believed the rule of thumb was:
> Handles with metal hoops - hit 'em wiv' an 'ammer if you like
> Bench chisels/firmers/butt etc - mallet, round or square as preferred
> Paring chisels - thou shalt not hit them on pain of pain
> Plastic handled site chisels - do what you jolly well like 'cos nothing's gonna make 'em worse.



I agree with the above. 

I keep a set of paring chisels (Bergs) with 20 degree bevels. These cut through timber with hand pressure owing to the low bevel angle, but are better suited to softwoods since the edge is more fragile at this angle.

My bench chisels (the Witherbys) are bevelled at 25 degrees. I can push or tap (not hit) these with a wooden mallet.

The Japanese bench chisels and dovetail chisels are reserved for hardwood. All are bevelled at 30 degrees and are designed to be hit with a metal hammer. 

I did note that Craftman Studio are selling a "special" set of Two Cherries chisels at a discount price. These are not polished and, therefore, cheaper. Funny that - the polished versions have to be flattened because the polishing process rounds the backs. I would pay extra to get the unpolished version, and here they are selling them cheaper!

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/L!5001501.htm

But I would try the Marples with a 30-35 degree bevel first.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## MattMoore (9 Oct 2005)

Derek, i can fully appreciate that everything is a compromise, and no edge will last forever, but when an edge is only lasting for 4 hinges, and 2 catches, then it isnt doing its job,
and with having to sharpen chisels very frequently, then im not achieving any work, when i could be. 
i will increase the bevel of the chisels ang go fromthere, thanks for the info all


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## JFC (9 Oct 2005)

I found my old oilstone last week and my chisels are sharper than they have been for a long time , maybe diamonds don't last forever :lol: 
Or maybe its the way we are taught , anyway im back on the oilstone now , maybe try that .


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## Anonymous (10 Oct 2005)

I'm with Mike. The Stanley #60 is a great carpenter's chisel. My set is about 25 years old, I don't know what recent ones are like. Mine get pounded with a heavy framing hammer and hold up well. These are the only chisels I hit with a hammer.


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## Anonymous (11 Oct 2005)

trevtheturner":fx32leic said:


> I often read references to hammering chisels. Is this just a commonly used general term or do some people actually strike chisel handles with a hammer?Cheers,
> 
> Trev.



I strike the japanese chisels using a japanese steel hammer. The ring on the end of the handle stops splitting. One can really belt these and remove quite large chunks of tough wood

I only ever strike the AIs or Two-Cherries using a carvers mallet- and I only tap them. Mostly, I use the AIs without mallet and pare with them


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## Taffy Turner (11 Oct 2005)

Tony,

As I note that you have both the Two Cherries and The Ashley Isles chisels, perhaps you would be so kind as to help me with my current dilemma?

I have reached the stage where I am totally frustrated with my current set of cheapo chisels (I spend more time sharpening than chiseling), and am looking to buy a new set. I am torn between the Two Cherries and the AI. Are the AI's worth the extra money in your opinion?

Cheers,

Gary
PS - Everyone else please feel free to add your comments as well.

Edited for spelling mistake


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## Adam (11 Oct 2005)

Taffy Turner":20fnuu39 said:


> I am torn between the Two Cherries and the AI. Are the AI's worth the extra money in your opinion?



Can't fully comment as only have one half of your choices. However I've never yet felt I've been limited by the two cherries, and they seem to stay sharp. The finish on the handles is a bit rubbish, but if I'm honest, I really don't use them *that* often.

I do have a second set of nice old chisels with box handles but oddly I nearly always turn to the Two Cherries.

Heres me giving them some abuse!







Adam


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