# A new workshop



## stef (15 Aug 2011)

I just bought our new family house, and quickly marked the old garage as my (new) workshop.
the house is a 1981 build, fairly big with a "built in" garage at the back, as well as another one outside.





The garage is on the left, and at the back. it is not insulated from the rest of the house, nor the outside, and it would get very cold since it's only got the original sliding wooden door to keep the cold outside.
so i decided to remove completely this door, and install two double glased patio doors instead. I will also insulate the outside walls, and to some extend, the inside ones too, mostly for soundproofing. walls a breezeblocks everywhere.
the floor is concrete in a bit of a sorry state.
i intend to use the clever "dado" system described on these pages, which allows tool panel, and drawing boards to slide all over the room. i might even mount those on ball bearings, just for the hell of it !
so, this puts a few constraints on my built, some of which i havent adressed yet.
i intend to use hardboards for the walls, probably paint them white, as this will allow me to hang heavy stuff on them.
I will also try and intall a wooden floor, probably with some spacing left underneath to run all sorts of cables.
so far, i purchased the patio doors, and built the reenforced concrete pilliard going between the two of them.
here is a right to left pan of the shop in its actual state.
the room is around 25sqm, roughly 5mx5m.


----------



## Mcluma (15 Aug 2011)

Those windows will give you a lot of light into your garage


----------



## dedee (17 Aug 2011)

Nice house, very generic style for round here. Garden looks large too. Still can't understand why the french plonk bushes randomly all over the lawn.

Ref painting the walls white. There should be no "probably" you really must, the benefit in light will be well worth the effort of slapping some cheap paint all over.

Andy


----------



## stef (19 Aug 2011)

dedee":2s0scafn said:


> Nice house, very generic style for round here. Garden looks large too. Still can't understand why the french plonk bushes randomly all over the lawn.
> 
> Ref painting the walls white. There should be no "probably" you really must, the benefit in light will be well worth the effort of slapping some cheap paint all over.
> 
> Andy



well, i didnt realise there was some fellow ukworkshop enthousiasts around here ! i work in Colombelles.
house is typicallish indeed. it's a 1980 build, but stands out by it's size, at 350sqm.
garden is 2000sqm, wiht a few ornamental bushes, but also a few trees (wallnut, 2x pear , 2x apple, hazzlenut, 2xprunes...)
overall in good shape, but i dire needs of an up to date deco, double glazing (next month) and a few walls to be taken down.
nevertheless, i should end up with the workshop, as i want it, rather than a bike, shoes, lawnmower parking bay !
how about using OSB (hardboard) for the walls, then painting them.. is that acceptable ? i cannot see any other option, as plasterboard wont take the weight of the tool racks.


----------



## Dibs-h (19 Aug 2011)

stef":19ot8tyx said:


> i cannot see any other option, as plasterboard wont take the weight of the tool racks.



Whys not if it's stuck onto the block walls - just use slightly longer screws\etc.. Or am I missing something in that you are taking the walls down? :? 

Dibs


----------



## stef (19 Aug 2011)

Dibs-h":kpka8hp5 said:


> stef":kpka8hp5 said:
> 
> 
> > i cannot see any other option, as plasterboard wont take the weight of the tool racks.
> ...



No the breezeblocks stay where they are, but i will have a 75mm to 100mm layer of insulation between the wall "skin" and the breezeblocks. i'd have to locate the supporting beams before i hang anything..if i use thick (14mm) hard board, i should have less trouble.


----------



## dedee (20 Aug 2011)

stef":27osrbnx said:


> dedee":27osrbnx said:
> 
> 
> > Nice house, very generic style for round here. Garden looks large too. Still can't understand why the french plonk bushes randomly all over the lawn.
> ...



I have just had my workshop built and we used water resistant OSB which I then painted with the cheapest sous couche that I could find. Some of the strands of wood bleed through the paint leaving what looks like rust marks. When I get around to it I'll dab some oil based paint on those spots, Even with OSB I think you would want to hang tool racks, cupboards etc on the uprights behind the OSB.
You can see my workshop build here http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewto ... 072#p16072

The wife works in Colombelles, for NXP, which is only 15 mins away by car. If you would like to see the workshop please feel free to pop round. I am here all day everyday school runs excepted. 

Cheers


Andy


ps OSB and hardboard are not the same thing. I can't find the translation for hardboard at the moment


----------



## stef (20 Aug 2011)

dedee":65sffipi said:


> The wife works in Colombelles, for NXP, which is only 15 mins away by car. If you would like to see the workshop please feel free to pop round. I am here all day everyday school runs excepted.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...




aha.. guess who i work for in colombelles ?
what's her name ?

so would you still recommand OSB for the job ? or "the real hardboard" ?
Very nice workshop btw, very similar to what i want to do with the walls.
I might take you up on the offer !


----------



## dedee (20 Aug 2011)

Stef, I have sent you a PM with details and email address. 

Andy


----------



## stef (28 Aug 2011)

the doors are just placed like this for the moment, until the concret is hard enough to be hammer drilled.













Next, i have to put down the floor joists and lay down cheap pine floorboards. I am still unsure of how to proceed. plugs and screws ? how many ? all the joists parallel, or some perpendicular to close the perimeter ?
many questions which i hope i will be able to answer soon..

then, i'll have to start thinking about power sockets, cabling, and sorting this out:




it's the main supply input for the house. The stuff on the left is for a 10HP 3 phase petrol generator that came with the house.
I'd like to improve the appearance of the whole thing, as it does look a bit dangerous !


----------



## dedee (29 Aug 2011)

You will have a great space there Stef when finished. Not so sure the wood dust will do the bike a lot of good though.

The electrics look like the "norm" for France - mine were much worse.

I preferred to surface mount all by sockets and cabling on the basis that I am sure I will reorganise the workshop and therefore I will be able to move things easily. 

Floorboards seems a bit posh for a workshop, unless you have some hanging around of course. I used sheets of flooring boards (aggloméré) the green ones are water resistant, and screwed to 3" joists. Polythene under the joists (on top of the concrete) and the gaps filled with insulation - laine de roche.

My joists were all at 400mm centres.

Cheers


Andy


----------



## stef (29 Aug 2011)

Thanks Andy,
well, the bike will have it's own little hut soon ! but i plan to buil some sort of chip and dust control for the workshop. I will have a computer and large CNC machine in there too (already built, in storage at the moment), so dust will have to be kept in check !

re: the floor, i will have to use slimmer joists, as i only have about 70mm to the bottom of the glass doors. so the thickness of the joists will depend on the floor boards i use.i'll probably use 38x63mm and lay them out on the thick side. that leaves me enough room for 28mm boards
I will probably get one of the cheapest floor boards available from LM, i think 7.90euros per square meter. i reckon not much more than agglo !
the concrete is on a "vide sanitaire" so it's dry, and warm. i wont need to insulate between the floorboards and the concrete. also probably no need for the plastic sheet. i'll put them at 40cm center to center too !

i hear you regarding the electrics... but then, i'd think i'd rather have the socket in the walls, again, for the ease of keeping the dust level to a minimum, or at least to give it as little room to hide as possible. makes it easier to clean the wall too ! 
but then, as you say, moving things about can become a pain.. i'll have to think it through !


----------



## dedee (29 Aug 2011)

Stef, I agree that dust collection is the downside to surface mounted electrics. You will see next weekend. I'll not clean the workshop just for you  

I'd be surprised if you could not fins some cheaper flooring at Brico Depot and it's your side of town too. 


Andy


----------



## stef (29 Aug 2011)

dedee":10jh0kd3 said:


> Stef, I agree that dust collection is the downside to surface mounted electrics. You will see next weekend. I'll not clean the workshop just for you
> 
> I'd be surprised if you could not fins some cheaper flooring at Brico Depot and it's your side of town too.
> 
> ...



yes, i'd be surprised too ! i checked there website, and couldnt find any.
i'll stop on my way home one of these evenings
so i budgeted for LM stuff as a "worse case" and 26sqm at 8euros aint bad !


----------



## stef (7 Sep 2011)

Well, i hope i havent c0cked up...
When i purchased the timber for the joist, i was sold 4 meter length. i quickly calculated the number of length i'd need to cover my 72m required total, at a 40cm spacing.
I proceeded to lay this down, and quickly realised they were not 4m, but 3.6m in length !
Damn, i said, i wont have enough for the whole workshop now ! so i decided to space the joists at 43cm instead.
sure enough, most of the floor is now done, and with the new joist spacing, i have enough timber.

HOWEVER !
I just didnt think about the floorboard i was lying on top of them ! 
now it turns out that unless i get boards which are 129cm, 172cm or any other multiple of 43, i'll end of with tongue and groove ends hanging in between joists..
now, is this critical ? 

is it recommended that i remove all the joists, and respace them at 40 ?


----------



## soulboy (7 Sep 2011)

Hi Stef, wherever the joint falls put in a noggin for support. chris


----------



## dedee (8 Sep 2011)

Stef, with the hassle you've had avoiding the cables in the concrete I can't imaging that you relish starting all over again. 

I too would have thought noggins would be the solution.


Andy

ps
I've just found a scierie just the other side of Bayeux that may be of interest to you http://www.lesboisdechampagne.com

I'll be paying them a visit shortly to see if they have any suitable chataignier. I'll let you know.


cheers

Andy


----------



## stef (8 Sep 2011)

yep, i guess i'll work the best possible pattern for the floor board to avoid wasting too much wood, and then add the relevant 3 or 4 joists i'd need to fall under the joints.
i can feel a headache comming up !
Andy, regarding that place, a colleague of mine just told me it may have closed a year ago.. something to check though. But if you visit them, make sure to stop at mine on the way ! I'll give them a call now for a quote on floorboards. i'll le tyou know
Edit: they are open, and i got a quote at 20euros/sqm on some sapin du nord..
a bit over my budget.


----------



## stef (11 Sep 2011)

I am currently laying down the pine floor boards.
they are 21mm thick, 2m long and 200mm wide boards, T&G. The room is roughly 5mx5m.
I am going to give them a couple of days to dry, as i dont really trust they were given enough drying time.
What is the recommended way to pin them to the joists ? screws or nails ? 
I'd rather screw them, such that i can easily take them off again without too much damage..
and also, i am thinking about just leaving them without any finish..or is there a recommended finish for a workhop flloor in pine ?


----------



## dedee (11 Sep 2011)

Stef, I've read elsewhere of Tongue Tite screws being very good for fixing sold wood floorboards http://www.screwfix.com/p/tongue-tite-s ... -200/85991

Some seem to say that pilot holes are necessary to stop the tongue splitting others do not. Some suggest that screws do not allow for movement in the same way that nails do.

Are you sure a couple of days is enough for acclimatisation?

Andy


----------



## stef (11 Sep 2011)

dedee":23dkp6c5 said:


> Stef, I've read elsewhere of Tongue Tite screws being very good for fixing sold wood floorboards http://www.screwfix.com/p/tongue-tite-s ... -200/85991
> 
> Some seem to say that pilot holes are necessary to stop the tongue splitting others do not. Some suggest that screws do not allow for movement in the same way that nails do.
> 
> ...



yep, i am over enthousiastic here, it will probably be a week or two before i screw/nail them down !
i think also nailing would give more room for movements, but then i can also change the screws to nails, whereas chaning from nails to screw would be a little more difficult ! looks like its going to be screws !


----------



## billybuntus (11 Sep 2011)

The last two t&g floors I've done I've secret nailed with a porter nailer (neither floor has had problems in around 4 years).


----------



## stef (11 Sep 2011)

The floor boards are now down.i havent screwed or nailed anything just yet.
I also havent cut the last set of boards to size, just so that i'll have enough left in case of massive shrinkage !
Finally, i ran the flexible tubes in which i can feed the power cables for the additional sockets i am fitting. 
I even ran two so i can have wire floor sockets (thanks andy !)

The pine is all clean and new, but marks very easily with black sole trainers... but that's ok, i guess it will soon turn grey anyway !


----------



## dedee (12 Sep 2011)

Looking good Stef.
I'd be tempted to put some sort of finish (floor varnish perhaps) down on the floor. It would prevent the wood from staining if oil, paint etc is spilled.

Andy


----------



## stef (12 Sep 2011)

dedee":2bqzfctf said:


> Looking good Stef.
> I'd be tempted to put some sort of finish (floor varnish perhaps) down on the floor. It would prevent the wood from staining if oil, paint etc is spilled.
> 
> Andy


thanks ! 
I've just found a source for the screw you mentioned earlier. 8euros for 200, plus 12euros pand p :-(...
i guess i'll try to find a cheaper source, and failing that, i will nail them !
I have some left over underlay, that the former owner kindly left me, about 9sqm worth of the 7mm thick, green felt type thing.
I am thinking about cutting it in strips and use this between the boards and the joists. I will prevent the floor from squeaking !
They sell something equivalent at LM..


----------



## dedee (12 Sep 2011)

Stef, I've not looked for those floorboard screws over here before. The key is their "lost head" . I'd be surprised if there was not an equivalent over here from a quincaillerie perhaps?

Mail order over here seems to be in the dark ages, many companies only sell to professionals (siret required) or postal charges are prohibitive. 

Andy


----------



## stef (15 Jan 2012)

Progress has been good during the christmas break. I managed to insulate the whole shop, and i have almost finished the electrics.

























Three phase supply means a lot of wires comming out of the walls. i managed to sort out the spagheti..






Everything is now back in the shop





you will notice my new tool cabinet on the right here... i am having all the windows replaced, so i managed to have three like this one put aside for me, the have roller shutters, and are just deep enough to house a number 7 plane..i'll put more picture of this later on.






I will have to connect all the bits on the CNC as soon as i get a chance. I managed to do the first cuts with it before christmas, but had to take it all apart again to do the building work in the shop.


----------



## dedee (17 Feb 2012)

Stef, 
that really is looking good, I will pop over one day when it's finished

Cheers

Andy


----------



## stef (9 Jun 2012)

Right, now that the workshop is functional and almost complete, i thought i'd post a few pictures. so here they are:

















second rotation from the door to the house:






















and the tool cabs, which i am pleased with:













there are still a few wires hanging for some more light, ceiling sockets, and dust extraction. That will be for later.
Overall, the workshop is spacious, and the floor is very comfortable. Most units are on wheels, so the machines can be moved around to suit. There is plenty of light too, from the two french door, 4 neons and central bulb. It's a double door to get back in the living quarters in the house. so the noise is fairly well confined.


----------

