# Curry's. - Do NOT buy anything from them at the moment.



## RogerS (27 Aug 2020)

They do not have the stock. They will take your money. And that, my friends, is the last that you will hear. It is impossible to get to speak to anyone to chase up your order. DAMHIKT.

You are funding their cashflow.

And if you think I am exaggerating, check out their Trustpilot reviews. 67% - 1 star with most people wishing for a Zero star.

Please pass this on.


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## Demusss (27 Aug 2020)

I had this problem. Ordered a phone for collection on Friday Eve, received a cancellation email sat morning.
Took 5 weeks to get my money back


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## Roxie (27 Aug 2020)

I went to buy a new monitor for my PC. I spoke with an "assistant" and all I got was "We haven't got any" "but there's some over there" " No we haven't got any" "Thank you" Walked out, will not go back.

John


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## NikNak (27 Aug 2020)

Reading this with interest as we went in yesterday afternoon and paid for (as they had no stock...) an iphone case/battery. "it'll be delivered to store tomorrow sir".... still waiting  

As an aside.... my sisters been caught by Harveys 'going to the wall'. She kept being fobbed off by "dont worry madam your order is safe and being processed..." she stands to lose £300 deposit  so i told her to go to her bank asap and ask them to do a cashback to her card. Need to speak to her and see how she got on


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## Rorschach (27 Aug 2020)

You reap what you sow. People asked for lockdown, people asked for businesses to close, the OP included. Now you are starting to see the consequences.


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## TheUnicorn (27 Aug 2020)

i bought a fridge from currys last year, a month delay, damaged when it came, and no stock to replace the damaged item. Customer services pretty useless, eventually got a small discount on the price.


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## NormanB (28 Aug 2020)

It’s not just Currys it’s a pretty common experience.

Back in May I ordered a Summerhouse from Wayfair with a promised delivery of June 19th. Eventually delivered 11 August when the components were dumped on a pallet with a warning to check and inspect before employing tradesman. Anyhoo after 8 hours of checking I had a Long list of shortfalls (like no door or window components) and issues - wood warped into fair imitations of hockey sticks and components differing from the dimensional drawing from 20-100mm.

Wayfair responded to each email with we will get back to you in 3-5 business days and in short after about a dozen emails and even more telephone calls I lost total confidence and demanded a refund and told them to collect this ‘fn pallet load of firewood’ - it gets collected on Monday.
The manufacturer was Shire Garden buildings - who were equally unimpressive.
Currently sketching out designs to build from scratch - it’s the only way to assure quality. (Anyone know where I can get plans that are not a scam operation)?


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

Bought a laptop on friday picked it up Monday.


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## robgul (28 Aug 2020)

Wayfair is nothing more than a "front end" for sellers .... this is the text for potential sellers interested in joining:

_Wayfair is an American online seller of home goods and furniture. They operate in other countries such as Canada, Ireland and the UK.
They are exclusively a homewares marketplace and a leading marketplace for items in the home categories.
To become a seller on Wayfair, you are required to complete the seller application form.
Wayfair operate a drop shipping model meaning they don't hold the stock of merchants.
Once a sale is made, Wayfair will notify you of the order. You are then required to fulfil the order using Wayfair's courier accounts. The delivery then arrives at the buyer with a Wayfair packing slip.
Wayfair charges sellers a small commission, but also negotiate pricing with their merchants. This typically tends to be on a wholesale price basis._

As with Amazon and other sales front-ends (even ebay) it's often very simple to find the actual supplier and deal direct, often at a lower price* - the sellers use the front-ends as a fast-track to greater exposure at relatively low cost. What is unclear is where the buyer/seller contract sits . . . .

Drifting back to the OP it does seem that an awful lot of goods of all varieties are in short supply - try buying an entry-level or mid-range bicycle!

* and the same applies for hotel bookings - find it on booking.com, get a better deal direct


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## RogerS (28 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Bought a laptop on friday picked it up Monday.


An exception that proves the rule, Bob.


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## Rorschach (28 Aug 2020)

RogerS said:


> An exception that proves the rule, Bob.



If there is an exception, there is no rule


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> If there is an exception, there is no rule


Not true. To "prove" here means to test. The "rule" is the generality. The exception demonstrates that the generality applies.


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## billw (28 Aug 2020)

Speaking of Wayfair, I was perusing their site not long ago as I wanted a more comfortable office chair. Some of them were pushing £500, some were a third of that, some even less. One thing they all had in common was their country of origin - China.

In fact I then went on a completely random search of stuff and 100% of the items were made in China. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not surprised that stuff is made in China, but everything?!?! Oh, just before I posted this I went on and picked out a set of spoons and they were made in China. As is everything made by a company called Portmeirion, which definitely doesn't sound Chinese.

ps just found a Moroccan rug that wasn't made in China. It was made in Moro....just kidding, it was Turkey.


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## billw (28 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> If there is an exception, there is no rule



Offside rule in football proves that wrong.


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## guineafowl21 (28 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> Not true. To "prove" here means to test. The "rule" is the generality. The exception demonstrates that the generality applies.


The old-fashioned use of ‘prove’ to mean ‘test’ causes confusion. We retain the use in ‘proving ground’, and guns are still ‘proofed’ for safety.

The phrase ‘exception that proves the rule’ is just a description - equal to saying ‘there’s an exception to test our rule’. It doesn’t imply that an exception somehow validates a rule.

Another (extremely irritating) misphrasing is ‘the proof is in the pudding’. Now, why would that be the case? The phrase is ‘the proof of the pudding is in the eating’, and if you apply the old sense of ‘proof’ here it makes perfect sense.


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## NikNak (28 Aug 2020)

Just an update.... we finally got an email from Currys at 5ish to say your order (iphone battery/case) was ready for collection.

While there we went to the Carphone Warehouse dept and asked one of the guys if we could buy and have fitted some screen protectors. We had to wait as they were very busy. While they were being fitted i tried to make some small talk with the guy, who you could see was very stressed out. I asked is it always this busy.? "yes... well... ever since they closed ALL the stand-alone Carphone stores its been non stop, and management dont listen to us saying we're struggling to cope and won't pay for a couple of extra staff". I then asked if he's managing to get his due breaks... "no... haven't got time to stop we're that busy.." 

So to be fair.... i take my hat off to all the guys and gals in Currys / Carphone Warehouse / M&S / John Lewis (we had an horrendous experience in there Tuesday ) and all the other stores, as i for one wouldn't want to be working in these very strange times in retail at the moment


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## Rorschach (28 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> Not true. To "prove" here means to test. The "rule" is the generality. The exception demonstrates that the generality applies.



But the exception that is testing the rule is also proving that the rule doesn't apply


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Aug 2020)

billw said:


> ps just found a Moroccan rug that wasn't made in China. It was made in Moro....just kidding, it was Turkey.



I once, many years ago picked up a classy box of Turkish Delight someone had bought my mother. Iirc it was made by Hadji Bey's Turkish Emporium ................................. Dublin.


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> But the exception that is testing the rule is also proving that the rule doesn't apply


Nope. You have failed to appreciate that the "rule" means the generality and so will never cover all eventualities.


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## AES (28 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> Meaning of rule in English
> 
> Also please note that while I understand what it means (still think it's silly) I posted to wind up Roger


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## AES (28 Aug 2020)

Re the above: WHY Rorschach??????????(Serious Q, really). Is it "fun" or something?

OK, "each to his own" or something, but to me anyway, I can think of LOTS of ways to have more fun than that (and some of them might even involve sitting at the keyboard too)!


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

B1 [ C usually plural ]
an accepted principle or instruction that states the way things are or should be done, and tells you what you are allowed or are not allowed to do:

Also please note that while I understand what it means (still think it's silly) I posted to wind up Roger 
[/QUOTE]

I see you are going to the trouble of being defensive. When someone says (as we commonly do in England) for example: "As a rule I would do it this way" they are tending to suggest that there are other ways, hence there are exceptions. This is exactly what your second quoted piece is suggesting. 

I see no merit in winding anyone up on the internet (or at all). I was just ensuring that the old saying about proving the rule is not misinterpreted by others through your misuse or misunderstanding of it.


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## Rorschach (28 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> B1 [ C usually plural ]
> an accepted principle or instruction that states the way things are or should be done, and tells you what you are allowed or are not allowed to do:
> 
> Also please note that while I understand what it means (still think it's silly) I posted to wind up Roger



I see you are going to the trouble of being defensive. When someone says (as we commonly do in England) for example: "As a rule I would do it this way" they are tending to suggest that there are other ways, hence there are exceptions. This is exactly what your second quoted piece is suggesting.

I see no merit in winding anyone up on the internet (or at all). I was just ensuring that the old saying about proving the rule is not misinterpreted by others through your misuse or misunderstanding of it.
[/QUOTE]

I understand where you are coming from and I know how the phrase is used, I just think it's one of those things where the meaning of the words has changed over time and it doesn't make sense anymore, to me at least. It's the old oxford comma story or many other similar historical quirks of the English language, it is both the joy and the bane of the English speaker.


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

The Oxford comma is still alive and well. I studied law at Oxford and the tutors there were obsessed. 

My personal favourite is "decimate". Actually means reduced by a tenth, but now commonly used to mean largely destroyed.

My second favourite is disinterested (meaning interested but unbiased) but usually commonly used because people confuse it with uninterested (meaning couldn't give a toss).

Not giving a toss is often my default position.


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## Droogs (28 Aug 2020)

Quantum leap is my fave as people seem to think its a big thing rather than "shouldn't have bothered really"


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## Rorschach (28 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> The Oxford comma is still alive and well. I studied law at Oxford and the tutors there were obsessed.
> 
> My personal favourite is "decimate". Actually means reduced by a tenth, but now commonly used to mean largely destroyed.
> 
> ...



Decimate, an excellent example! It has a historical meaning and a modern meaning, you could argue for either being correct now, in 100 years, maybe it will mean something else.


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## Lons (28 Aug 2020)

I wanted 3 sets of front and rear dashcams plus hard wire kits last year, priced them on line and called in to the nearest Curries, checked they were in stock gave them the figures and said "go and ask the branch manager to match that and I'll buy them now", he came back and said that he would offer no discount at all so they lost a £460 sale, I went to Halfords 2 doors away who's manager matched the price 

I wrote to the area manager later to say I was pleased they are doing so well they can turn away customers, he rang me and said I definitely should have been offered discount on a multiple purchase and the issue would be raised with the manager, I was offered a £20 voucher for my next Curries purchase which I refused to accept as I wouldn't be buying from them unless no other option. There are always other options.


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## Normancb (28 Aug 2020)

We ordered a new freezer from Currys in April as ours was failing. Chose one which was in stock and paid for it online. Got a message few days later saying they had run out of stock and did we want to wait or refund. Asked for a refund and got it in a couple of days. Got a letter from them a few days ago apologising for less than great service and enclosing a £20 gift voucher.

Ordered a new PC online and it was delivered next day. No complaints here.


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

Lons said:


> I wrote to the area manager later to say I was pleased they are doing so well they can turn away customers, he rang me and said I definitely should have been offered discount on a multiple purchase and the issue would be raised with the manager, I was offered a £20 voucher for my next Curries purchase which I refused to accept as I wouldn't be buying from them unless no other option. There are always other options.



Why would you want to put a black mark on someones career, when you are never going back, seems rather vendictive for no reason.


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## Lons (28 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Why would you want to put a black mark on someones career, when you are never going back, seems rather vendictive for no reason.


Because that was the third issue with the same manager Bob, that one was trivial as it certainly didn't do any harm and I resisted the urge to do anything before that.
If you are that curious to know I'm happy to tell you but not going into detail on here.


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

Lons said:


> Because that was the third issue with the same manager Bob, that one was trivial as it certainly didn't do any harm and I resisted the urge to do anything before that.
> If you are that curious to know I'm happy to tell you but not going into detail on here.


No thats fine. I tend to just let things go.


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## powertools (28 Aug 2020)

Most of us just let things go that we are not happy with and move on, but then most of us are not trying to big ourselves up on the internet.


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## Sgian Dubh (28 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> The Oxford comma is still alive and well. I studied law at Oxford and the tutors there were obsessed.
> 
> My personal favourite is "decimate". Actually means reduced by a tenth, but now commonly used to mean largely destroyed.


Seldom do I join in these off-topic threads, but that (decimate) caught my eye, i.e., the evolving meaning of words.

For example, it always jars when someone says, "I refute that", or similar phraseology that includes the word refute because my mind is then waiting for the accused to follow up with evidenced refutation disproving whatever malfeasance or dishonesty they have been accused of ... but they never do because they're not refuting anything at all, they're simply denying 'it', whatever 'it' may be. Slainte.


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

powertools said:


> Most of us just let things go that we are not happy with and move on, but then most of us are not trying to big ourselves up on the internet.



Is this aimed at me? I'm a tad confused if it is, trust me I haven't tried to big myself up since about 1972 in primary school in front of Celia Pothelwaite. If anything I have imposter syndrome where I feel I will be found out at any point.


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

Bob, I didn't read it as aimed at you.



Youngest knows all the words....


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## rafezetter (28 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> You reap what you sow. People asked for lockdown, people asked for businesses to close, the OP included. Now you are starting to see the consequences.



People DID NOT ASK FOR FRAUDULENT BEHAVIOUR. Currys having stock flow issues does not give them the right to take money for backorders then go silent.

Please give me the name of your business rorschach, because if you think this is OK, I think you might do the same.

RogerS - I would put out a tweet in their website, something they cannot hide, warning people about this.


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## Trevanion (28 Aug 2020)

powertools said:


> most of us are not trying to big ourselves up on the internet.



Not me sir, nope, not at all!

I'm more than willing to admit my faults, and my only fault is not realising how great I really am


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## powertools (28 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Is this aimed at me? I'm a tad confused if it is, trust me I haven't tried to big myself up since about 1972 in primary school in front of Celia Pothelwaite. If anything I have imposter syndrome where I feel I will be found out at any point.



What on earth makes you think that my comment was aimed at you?


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

powertools said:


> What on earth makes you think that my comment was aimed at you?


I am just a simple chap, as I said "is this aimed at me", it looks like it wasn't, I'm 55 and always struggled with english comprehension


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## RogerS (28 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> No thats fine. I tend to just let things go.


So how will things ever improve ?


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## RogerS (28 Aug 2020)

powertools said:


> Most of us just let things go that we are not happy with and move on, but then most of us are not trying to big ourselves up on the internet.


Your point is ?


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## doctor Bob (28 Aug 2020)

RogerS said:


> So how will things ever improve ?


To be honest, I'm more concerned about my well being, I find for me personally if I get wound up it does me harm, as a result I prefer to let things go (especially as in Lons case where he had already decided he would never use the shop again) than extend the time I dwell on them. Letting things go is great for ones well being.


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> To be honest, I'm more concerned about my well being, I find for me personally if I get wound up it does me harm, as a result I prefer to let things go (especially as in Lons case where he had already decided he would never use the shop again) than extend the time I dwell on them. Letting things go is great for ones well being.


Spot on. Took me years to learn this. Totally agree. Nothing much can wind me up now. Much healthier.


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## Lons (29 Aug 2020)

My view was always that feedback is vital and that problems and issues are known as long as they are acted upon and lessons learned, as Roger said " how will things ever improve" if you don't know about it? A disgruntled customer might just walk away but won't come back and is highly likely to slag off the company to all and sundry, we've seen some of that on the forum have we not.

It's much easier and cheaper to keep a customer than procure new ones and if one of your customers has a problem, providing you act quickly, communicate effectively and resolve the issue you will likely have that customer for a very long time.
The customer is very definitely not always right and sometimes you need to disagree with them but most people can handle that as long as you're truthful and transparent.

Just to put my Currys comment into perspective, in my email to the area manager I didn't name the branch manager, I didn't make a complaint, I questioned their company policy of not offering discount and suggested that was handing business to their competitor, which it did in my case That was the excuse I was given in store!. Only during his phone call to me did I answer the questions he asked about the store and it's manager. I see nothing wrong in that whatsoever as even though I'd had previous problems I didn't slag off the manager.


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## RogerS (29 Aug 2020)

Latest bullshit from Currys. I found a link to cancel the item. Got this email from them overnight.

_Hi Roger,

Thank you for your return request. We have tried to process your return but unfortunately, need some more information.

Please call us back on 0344 561 1234 to discuss this further.


We look forward to helping you soon.


Kind Regards

Currys PC World_

Absolute tosh. Where's the order number ? It's an automatic response to avoid refunding my money. Lying toe rags.. 

I found an email link to customer services. I emailed them. Then got this reply.

_This mailbox is no longer active, please visit our contact us page for further information on how to talk to us __https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/contact-us-1181-theme.html_

If any company deserves to go to the wall then it is this one.


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## lurker (29 Aug 2020)

Currys are useful.
You can see in the flesh, so to speak, what you want to buy and then get it elsewhere.
We have just bought an oven and hob. Went to currys on Monday to see lots of options, then went over the other side of town to a local company with a much smaller showroom and bought both there. Total extra cost £2. They deliver today.

Can't remember the last time I actually bought anything from currys, do they still do that annoying thing were the staff try to foist an extended guarantee that costs close to purchase price?


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## Droogs (29 Aug 2020)

Yes, it is how the company actually makes the majority of it's profit.


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

lurker said:


> do they still do that annoying thing were the staff try to foist an extended guarantee that costs close to purchase price?



They do, you say "no thank you" and they don't ask again..............


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## selectortone (29 Aug 2020)

I bought an android tablet at my local Currys a while ago and they signed me up to a support contract without my knowledge. It was actually the manager who did it - he served me at the till when no one else was available. I definitely wasn't asked if I wanted one.

The first I knew of this was checking my credit card statement online. There was a charge from "Product Support AG" and an 0844 telephone number as the reference. Googling the phone number revealed pages of people complaining about being caught in the same way. I called Currys customer service (there was no way was calling an 0844 number and contributing even more revenue. Sitting on hold on a pay per minute business rate number is all part of the scam, of course) and after a VERY long hold managed to cancel the agreement. This was pre-covid; I dread to think what hoops I'd need to jump through now.

Their business model is dreadful. The business is run by a bunch of barrow-boys who treat their staff appallingly. A word of advice when shopping at Currys: always check your receipt immediately for unexpected extras. Or better still, shop elsewhere.


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

selectortone said:


> A word of advice when shopping at Currys: always check your receipt immediately for unexpected extras. Or better still, shop elsewhere.



I think receipts from anywhere should be checked. I'm not approving of their conduct but surely you check receipts of all purchases, before entering pin or handing over dough. i.e if the purchase is £350 and they put £475 in the till how did you not know, irrespective of card of cash.


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## selectortone (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> I think receipts from anywhere should be checked. I'm not approving of their conduct but surely you check receipts of all purchases, before entering pin or handing over dough. i.e if the purchase is £350 and they put £475 in the till how did you not know, irrespective of card of cash.



Ah but there's the catch. I always check the amount before paying, and I keep receipts in the box the item came in. (And keep the box until the warranty expires.) The amount on the receipt was for the item only. The small print listed the support charge, payments for which commenced a month later.

But you're quite right. Once bitten twice shy.


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## Blackswanwood (29 Aug 2020)

Despite a so called regulatory review these sharp practices around add ons for warranties continue. The commission earned is often more than the profit to the distributor on the product being bought. It’s the same with the pisch products that the “Commercial Manager” who it seems they make it obligatory that you talk to when buying a new car. Inchcape have this great wheeze of saying that the Financial Conduct Authority rules make it obligatory that he tells you about all their great products ... which they don’t. If they had to tell customers what the claims ratio was on Gap Insurance (last time I looked less than 10%) and as part of their sales pitch tell the customer how much of the premium was paid as commission (probably 50%) to the dealer it would be a far fairer way of doing business. We might see the price of cars go up though as they’d need to make money from selling cars rather than mugging consumers. Sorry for the rant!


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## thetyreman (29 Aug 2020)

this thread reminds me why I stopped shopping at currys and PC world over a decade ago, I had problems getting my money back from PC world, I had to resort to threatening legal action to finally get the money back and showing them a printed document that showed my consumer rights, never again...a customer shouldn't have to go that far just to get a refund


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## selectortone (29 Aug 2020)

How depressing must it be to be the person on the end of the customer support line whose job it is, all day, to listen to irate customers who have been conned into unwanted support contracts. What a world.


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## Rorschach (29 Aug 2020)

selectortone said:


> How depressing must it be to be the person on the end of the customer support line whose job it is, all day, to listen to irate customers who have been conned into unwanted support contracts. What a world.



Any kind of customer support is depressing, retail in general can be pretty depressing as well, I wouldn't like to go back to either of them.


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

Angry people on phones are horrible.
Many many years ago I worked for sky, I rang up pubs and asked them if they were showing the football in the bar ................ "yes we are mate" ........... great, do you show all the games ........ "yes we do mate" ....... I'm from sky, you don't have a commercial package, your bill will go from £25/month to £350/month ........... "you what mate, you F!!**ng C..$t" blah, blah, blah ................. I hated it.


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## Droogs (29 Aug 2020)

Try doing it as part of QC on government dept helplines like DWP, Student Loans and a few others; totally soul destroying and at times heartbreaking


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## RogerS (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> I think receipts from anywhere should be checked. I'm not approving of their conduct but surely you check receipts of all purchases, before entering pin or handing over dough. i.e if the purchase is £350 and they put £475 in the till how did you not know, irrespective of card of cash.


Why are you sticking up for Currys? Have you got shares in them ?


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## graduate_owner (29 Aug 2020)

I for one am glad that the issue of 'exception that proves the rule' etc has died. These are just sayings anyway, like old wives tales. Usually a load of nonsense, although there is one OWT that I know from personal experience is absolutely correct - if you step on the cracks in the paving the bears will get you. I had a very narrow escape there once - never again. So much more careful now.

PS Thanks to all for the warnings about Currys etc. Well worth knowing

K


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

RogerS said:


> Why are you sticking up for Currys? Have you got shares in them ?


Why not, you are happy to slag them off, I am happy to voice my dealings with them.
If this upsets you then you are an odd one surely?
So, balance, I bought a laptop from curry's on friday hassle free.
I also dislike people naming and shaming on public forums when things haven't gone right for them, all seems rather vendictive, also thought it was not allowed on here as far as I was aware.
I also said check all receipts not just currys, good common sense.
I hope this answers your question, I don't hold any shares unless they are in my pension platform.


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## RogerS (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Why not, you are happy to slag them off, I am happy to voice my dealings with them.
> If this upsets you then you are an odd one surely?
> So, balance, I bought a laptop from curry's on friday hassle free.
> I also dislike people naming and shaming on public forums when things haven't gone right for them, all seems rather vendictive, also thought it was not allowed on here as far as I was aware.
> ...



So basically what you're saying is that when someone has a bad experience with a company (and not the only person clearly) that they should just keep quiet, not alert others to the problems and so let other people also get ripped off. How very strange.

Out of curiosity..your laptop. Was it the one you wanted to buy when you went into the shop ?


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> Yes, it is how the company actually makes the majority of it's profit.


I remember reading years ago that the year before that 83% of their profits came from selling extended guarantees.


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## D_W (29 Aug 2020)

robgul said:


> Wayfair is nothing more than a "front end" for sellers .... this is the text for potential sellers interested in joining:
> 
> _Wayfair is an American online seller of home goods and furniture. They operate in other countries such as Canada, Ireland and the UK.
> They are exclusively a homewares marketplace and a leading marketplace for items in the home categories.
> ...



I don't use wayfair much, but they have distribution centers in the united states. They may allow sellers to be listed on their site and manage their own (the sellers) delivery, but I'd imagine at least in the US, most of the orders are actually fulfilled by them. They seem to be set up almost exactly the same as amazon, but with more limited categories. 

I check wiki and they have at least one physical fulfillment center in the UK. Here in the states, the benefit of buying from a seller through amazon is that amazon will put it to a seller if you're not satisfied. All they can do is charge a small return fee. About 5 years ago, I got a couple dozen grobet files through a seller on amazon - they shipped one, and were unresponsive about it. One of the dozens they did ship 12 files, but some were actually missing the corners and others had no teeth on the corners. they claimed that they look the files over. The teeth were bashed on the corners where there were formed corners, and the seller said "we store them in barrels, so they may get damaged when we're picking files out"

If you use a seller like that, you end up having to go through credit card resolution over $35 for a dozen files, which is a nuisance. If you're using amazon, the price from that seller ends up being less (due to shipping cost restrictions that amazon appears to apply) and amazon puts it to them immediately when they deliver junk. 

How did I know wayfair has actual distribution centers and not just drop ship? They had a bedbug outbreak at one of their shipping centers, so when you get something like a pillow, it came with bedbugs. I think they offered folks 10% off of their next order for that (!!!)


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## Garno (29 Aug 2020)

I like Currys, especially a chicken one 








I know it's Curries but thought what the heck


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

RogerS said:


> So basically what you're saying is that when someone has a bad experience with a company (and not the only person clearly) that they should just keep quiet, not alert others to the problems and so let other people also get ripped off. How very strange.



No feel free to do it, I just don't like it and thought the forum had a rule against it.
Then you seemed miffed that I posted up a good experience.




RogerS said:


> Out of curiosity..your laptop. Was it the one you wanted to buy when you went into the shop ?



Yes, I went instore, chose it and then bought online as they had none in the clour I wanted, all was fine. I didn't get forced to buy add ons, or sold anything I hadn't asked for.


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## Lons (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> I just don't like it and thought the forum had a rule against it.



I don't think there are rules against it or if there are they've been ignored for years judging by the number of times Rutlands has been named and shamed.


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## RogerS (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> .....
> Then you seemed miffed that I posted up a good experience.
> ....


Curiouser and curiouser. "Miffed" ? I just went back through my posts and just can't see where you got that idea from ? Jake really has got you sussed !


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

RogerS said:


> Curiouser and curiouser. "Miffed" ? I just went back through my posts and just can't see where you got that idea from ? Jake really has got you sussed !



Last word ............


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## Inspector (29 Aug 2020)

When I started in Quality Contol I was taught that a happy customer will tell 7 people of their experience. An unhappy customer will complain to 22 people. It made good business sense to keep customers happy with service and product. That was before the internet got rolling. Now an unhappy customer can reach thousands or in the case of this little forum dozens. 

Pete


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## Doug B (29 Aug 2020)

They price matched my microwave so I was quite pleased with them do I have to stand in the naughty corner with Bob


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

Doug B said:


> They price matched my microwave so I was quite pleased with them do I have to stand in the naughty corner with Bob



Hello Doug  it's quite comfy, come on in and put your feet up, cup of tea? If you have shares in Currys keep Shtum.


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## Doug B (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Hello Doug  it's quite comfy, come on in and put your feet up, cup of tea? If you have shares in Currys keep Shtum.


Any biscuits


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

Jaffa cakes.


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## Blackswanwood (29 Aug 2020)

The forum seems to have got a bit tetchy today?


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## Doug B (29 Aug 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> The forum seems to have got a bit tetchy today?


Indeed, covid blues


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## Droogs (29 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> I've got odds that Roger thinks Jaffa cakes aren't biscuits


Just like the UK courts do and therefore HMRC can't tax them as they do buscuits


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## Rorschach (29 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> Just like the UK courts do and therefore HMRC can't tax them as they do buscuits



Don't spoil the fun with your "facts"


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## Droogs (29 Aug 2020)

which is good as I like jaffacakes being as cheap as possible and i call them them biscuits too


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## MikeG. (29 Aug 2020)

Currys?

Good idea. I'll just ring Little India. I fancy Lamb Dansak and a keema nan.


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## Doug B (29 Aug 2020)

They’ve all gone now


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

Of course the big question is "how come those triple boxes don't last 3 times as long", I think it's because as you eat a Jaffa cake some phenomenuon happens to time and it goes exponential.


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## Blackswanwood (29 Aug 2020)

Another big question is whether you can tell the difference when it’s not McVities?


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## Rorschach (29 Aug 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> Another big question is whether you can tell the difference when it’s not McVities?



Back when I ran a shop (and would eat a packet of jaffa cakes in a say I am shamed to say) I did a blind taste test with the staff, we compared Tesco value to McVities. Everyone preferred the Tesco value. Most of them said that they could tell which were the Mcvities from the look of them, but still preferred the taste of the value.


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## doctor Bob (29 Aug 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> Another big question is whether you can tell the difference when it’s not McVities?



Rubbish taste buds, so it's a no from me.


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## Droogs (29 Aug 2020)

i'm not sure. i think the missus puts tesco's ones in the mcvitee box as they always have the sell by date missing


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## artie (29 Aug 2020)

I was gobsmacked while waiting at the till in Currys, The woman in front of me paid a fiver for an extended warranty on a £17 kettle.


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> I've got odds that Roger thinks Jaffa cakes aren't biscuits


Quite rightly. They are cakes.


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Of course the big question is "how come those triple boxes don't last 3 times as long", I think it's because as you eat a Jaffa cake some phenomenuon happens to time and it goes exponential.


My lad liked them so my wife bought a bargain box of something like thirty packs for a tenner. He then decided he didn't like them any more.


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## guineafowl21 (29 Aug 2020)

artie said:


> I was gobsmacked while waiting at the till in Currys, The woman in front of me paid a fiver for an extended warranty on a £17 kettle.


Simpson’s joke:
Homer gets a crayon removed from his brain, lodged in there since childhood, and becomes super-intelligent. He doesn’t like it, so asks Moe to put it back so he can become blissfully dim again.

Moe taps the crayon in a little way.
Homer: ‘Deeper, you pusillanimous pilsner-pusher!’

*Tap, tap*

Homer: ‘DE-fence, uh, uh, DE-fence, uh, uh’ (redneck football fan)
Moe: ‘Hmmm, that’s pretty dumb, but maybe a little further.’

*Tap, tap*

Homer: ‘Extended warranty? How can I lose?!’
Moe: ‘There, that’s dumb enough!’


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## lurker (29 Aug 2020)

Aldi Jaffa cakes are by far the best.


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## Lons (29 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:
I've got odds that Roger thinks Jaffa cakes aren't biscuits 



Phil Pascoe said:


> Quite rightly. They are cakes.


Absolutely Phil. 
Must have been a shopkeeper who suggested they aren't


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## Rorschach (29 Aug 2020)

You missed the joke but it's ok


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Aug 2020)

Easily missed.


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## Oddbod (29 Aug 2020)

artie said:


> I was gobsmacked while waiting at the till in Currys, The woman in front of me paid a fiver for an extended warranty on a £17 kettle.



Proof that you can't fix stupid.

I rarely use the big stores any more.
I check prices online, then email/message local stockists with the online price(including delivery cost, if any), asking if they can get close.
Doing this, I've actually saved compared to the online price on multiple appliances over the past 10 years, including fitting out two homes with Neff, AEG, Smeg, Miele, Bosch...
Pity many people don't bother to do this, as keeping the local economy vibrant is good for the local community too.


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## Nigel Burden (29 Aug 2020)

We use one of the local stores for white goods and they always price match the big stores, and it's generally a nicer shopping experience, if there is such a thing. 

Nigel.


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## Terry - Somerset (29 Aug 2020)

Shopping for consumer durables - TVs, cookers, fidges etc - I would like to:

talk to a member of staff who is knowledgable about the product
inspect what I am buying
pay a low price
get delivery when I want/need/am promised.
It is not viable to run a network of stores with staff and displays and expect them to deliver on (1) and (3) as well.

Currys seem to do (2) with some limited success. (1) and (2) rarely. And, at the moment (4) seems to be unusual.

Something needs to give. Personally I will pay a little extra to shop at (say) John Lewis for their knowledgable and courteous staff.

It is somewhat lacking in integrity to get the "free" advice and shop elsewhere to save a few ££. It is also unsustainable - very soon the advice and knowledge taken for granted will disappear to be replaced by feedback from "happy" Amazon customers and fraudulent reviews.


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## Blackswanwood (30 Aug 2020)

Terry - Somerset said:


> Shopping for consumer durables - TVs, cookers, fidges etc - I would like to:
> 
> talk to a member of staff who is knowledgable about the product
> inspect what I am buying
> ...



Surely 1 and 3 are achievable Terry as evidenced by John Lewis? They may be dropping the “never knowingly undersold” tag line but certainly price match both when asked and when they are aware of a competitor price? I’m sure John Lewis are not immune to employing the odd muppet but their ethos towards their people and brand imho pays off.

On 4 there is little retailers can do at the moment about stock availability but the OP suggests they are not being transparent about it. My guess is that this is driven by an anxiousness to drive revenue but hasn’t been thought through in terms of long term customer trust. 

I agree that taking advice and then buying elsewhere is shaping the retail sector and high street. C19 has in my view just accelerated the impact of these challenges for retailers.


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## doctor Bob (30 Aug 2020)

Companies need to stop price matching on appliances.
We used a local company for many years, probably £50-£75K a year of business. In the end they went bust. Talking to the owner he acknowledged that price matching had killed the business. Often selling stuff at a loss. He said how can I price match against AO when what we sell is a day or less sales for them


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## AJB Temple (30 Aug 2020)

I don't see how they can stop Bob. It has become habitual for all of us to check prices, specs, videos and reviews on line. With next day delivery frequently available, the brick and mortar stores are not viable. I can't ever see it going back. Consumers protect themselves via credit card and PayPal, which provides some insulation against late delivery or other problems. 

I think John Lewis will contract sharply. It is interesting that their profitable arm, Waitrose, has linked up for a trial with Deliveroo. Amazon are heavily invested in Deliveroo. So they clearly understand that on-line is very much the present as well as their future.

Invest in delivery networks!


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## Droogs (30 Aug 2020)

I believe the situation the high street finds itself in is the direct ultimate end state of capitalist consumerism, nothing else matters but price. Every generation since the end of WW2 has been bombarded with this most central tenet of consumerism. Hence the continuous decline in the build quality and longevity of the things we have. After all consumerism doesn't work if there is no need to replace what you have. So built in obsolescence has become the norm meaning ever cheaper parts and production methods that favour the mass producer and consequently the wholesaler at the expense of the little guy both in manufacture and retail.

After all would you rather have a Wadkin Burgessgreen or a Charnwood?


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## Droogs (30 Aug 2020)

AJB invest in BEV vans builders


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Aug 2020)

The last time I had this discussion I looked at my Amazon purchase history - eight things out of the first ten I couldn't have bought locally anyway, and even if I could source them locally it would entail a 15 mile round trip and an hour wasted. Amazon Prime - brilliant.
Anyone using Amazon should use Amazon Smile - there's a no cost charity donation for many purchases. It's minute, but if millions do it ...


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## Rorschach (30 Aug 2020)

Similar to Phil for me too. I buy clothes, shoes and food from brick and mortar shops but almost everything else I buy just isn't available locally.


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## Doug B (30 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> After all would you rather have a Wadkin Burgessgreen or a Charnwood?



That’s where I find the delusion sets in as folks want the quality of the Wadkin but the price of the Charnwood, they buy the Charnwood then moan on Internet forums about the lack of quality.

Had it yesterday pricing a job,10 minutes of a customer moaning about a shoddy job she’d had done turns out she took the cheapest price & frankly I’d have struggled to get the materials for what she paid for the whole job.
I ran through what I’d do & cost, she’s seen my work at her friends as the friend recommended me but I know I won’t get the job as even though she has been disappointed taking the cheapest quote before she made it obvious it was the route she was going to take again.
Some folks never learn.


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## Badgersurfer (30 Aug 2020)

lurker said:


> do they still do that annoying thing were the staff try to foist an extended guarantee that costs close to purchase price?


You need to understand the reason behind this process. Due to the fact that most large retailers have loss leaders and low profit margins they have to make their money somewhere. They do this by selling FS (Financial Services), as you describe as "annoying". To some it is an irritation, but to many it gives them them a benefit. The unfortunate underlying issues that are far worse than the approach to the customer is the awful draconian deceitful methods the retail companies impose on their staff of which the public are unaware. I.e. performance managing and Mystery Shoppers whereby the Managers have to meet targets for selling so many cards and insurances per month otherwise they are threatened on a monthly basis to be performance managed with the threat of losing their jobs. Along with that they have to endure Mystery Shoppers who are third party entities and could be anyone picked off the street whom may even have a gripe with the specific store they are investigating, enter the stores unannounced and incognito filming the transaction and then if the member of staff fails to ask the customer if they want any FS (along with did they smile or did they offer you accessories) then the staff member is reported and the manager once again has their head on the block because they are considered responsible even though they had nothing to do with the actual transaction.
Nobody would like NOT to offer you those annoying FS than the staff...


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## Terry - Somerset (30 Aug 2020)

Droogs has it broadly right: 

"I believe the situation the high street finds itself in is the direct ultimate end state of capitalist consumerism, nothing else matters but price" 

Many on this forum (including me) make decisions based solely on price and convenience (when it comes to delivery). Shops with staff, product displays, rent, overheads etc cannot hope to compete with warehouses largely automated with goods stacked 6m high.

It perhaps reinforces the need for fora like this where there may at least be a moderately informed consensus emerging from like minded people about which products, services etc are best or to be avoided.


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## Blackswanwood (30 Aug 2020)

Terry - Somerset said:


> It perhaps reinforces the need for fora like this where there may at least be a moderately informed consensus emerging from like minded people about which products, services etc are best or to be avoided.



... but perhaps only when it doesn’t relate to sharpening


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## Oddbod (30 Aug 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Companies need to stop price matching on appliances.
> We used a local company for many years, probably £50-£75K a year of business. In the end they went bust. Talking to the owner he acknowledged that price matching had killed the business. Often selling stuff at a loss. He said how can I price match against AO when what we sell is a day or less sales for them



As a former (retired as soon as I was financially comfortable) high street retailer, I disagree in part.
What I always offered was to price match if possible & if not offer the best price I could.
This satisfied most customers.
What WAS frustrating were those who bought online because they thought it was bound to be cheaper than buying locally & didn't bother checking.
I'll admit to a small amount of satisfaction when they came in for something else, glanced at my price on the item they'd bought & were dismayed to note it was significantly less than they had paid.


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## AES (30 Aug 2020)

I must agree with Oddbod regarding the specialist local retailer. Although just like anyone else I don't want to pay more than I have to, I will happily pay (a little) more from a retailer who is more or less local to me, who will offer me advice that I know I can trust, and who will "stand by" his sale (e.g. further advice, spare parts, etc). I do not expect such a retailer who is a "one man/shop/band" dealer to be able to match the sort of discounts that a big box shifter/large quantities buyer can offer. As long as he's clearly trying price-wise then that's fine by me.

I stress that I'm talking about retailers of specialist items (such as, but not limited to, tools) and NOT about buying daily staples like food.

The problem here, and from the little I've seen over, say, the last 10 or so years also in UK and Germany, is that fewer and fewer such retailers exist now. I imagine that this is at least partly due to the people that Oddbod refers to indirectly - those that "know the price of everything" - or not in his example! - "but the value of nothing."!

And another possible reason is the relatively new appearance of the likes of Aldi and Lidl. Clearly the likes of Oddbod cannot compete with such "manufacturers", but equally clearly, IF you keep your eyes open there are some remarkably good value for money tools to be had at Aldi and Lidl - I stress for hobbyists like me, I'm NOT talking about professionals.

Interesting "philosophical" thread this, especially now that some members appear to have stopped slinging mud at each other - hopefully permanently!


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## Trainee neophyte (30 Aug 2020)

We could also have a look at the idea that the current financial environment will exacerbate the decline of the high street: the small retailer will have higher costs and less access to government money than the large retailers, which will mean more fold, so less choice and higher prices for the consumer. If the large chains also go by the board then we will be left with Amazon and Wish. The internet is a weird place where monopoly seems to be the default position. Monopoly is a fabulous idea for the monopolist, but absolutely awful for everyone else. 

Given that governments seem to think that planned economies are the new big thing, expect more monopolies and cartels. Free markets have always been a bit of a pipe dream, but are now looking to be virtually extinct.


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## lurker (30 Aug 2020)

Oddbod said:


> As a former (retired as soon as I was financially comfortable) high street retailer, I disagree in part.
> What I always offered was to price match if possible & if not offer the best price I could.
> This satisfied most customers.
> What WAS frustrating were those who bought online because they thought it was bound to be cheaper than buying locally & didn't bother checking.
> I'll admit to a small amount of satisfaction when they came in for something else, glanced at my price on the item they'd bought & were dismayed to note it was significantly less than they had paid.



Well this was me until this week, if I am honest.
The place were we got the oven and hob are a local company, well known their customer service. About a year ago I looked in there when I wanted a telly and they were 3 times the price of tesco, where I bought.
So when her majesty said she wanted to check them out, I insisted we look in currys and set a ballpark figure. I was convinced that we were wasting our time going to the local company. But as I say, there was £2 difference on a £700 bill. Delivered yesterday by two cheerful chaps who were employees rather than subbies.


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## HappyHacker (30 Aug 2020)

I try to buy locally, especially from those retailers I know I will get good support from, even if it costs a bit more.

BUT

Retailers trying to compete with the large warehouses of international corporations who pay little in terms of Business Rates compared to high street retailers, with the tax deals in Luxembourg and Ireland with high interest loans and "rights fees" to reduce the tax paid in any particular country mean the bricks and mortar retailer is on a hiding to nothing in the long term unless the tax structure is changed.

Jeff Bezos did not get $176 Billion by paying every local tax he could. Personally I try to avoid Amazon if only so that I do not have to spent time playing hunt Wally trying to find the buttons that let me buy without subscribing to prime.


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## AJB Temple (30 Aug 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> We could also have a look at the idea that the current financial environment will exacerbate the decline of the high street: the small retailer will have higher costs and less access to government money than the large retailers, which will mean more fold, so less choice and higher prices for the consumer. If the large chains also go by the board then we will be left with Amazon and Wish. The internet is a weird place where monopoly seems to be the default position. Monopoly is a fabulous idea for the monopolist, but absolutely awful for everyone else.
> 
> Given that governments seem to think that planned economies are the new big thing, expect more monopolies and cartels. Free markets have always been a bit of a pipe dream, but are now looking to be virtually extinct.




Re the high street. This is my prediction. 


City centre office space is 50% over capacity post Covid. Employers don't want staff back - they want to save on leases and business rates and will keep staff working from home. 
Eventually government will wake up that we are in a permanent change, and allow office space to be converted to housing with few planning constraints. 
This will deal with housing crisis and also regenerate the high streets to a degree as people who were driven out of the urban centres return and want local convenience shopping for food etc. 
But we have about a 5 year lead time.


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## powertools (30 Aug 2020)

Strange idea that people who no longer want to work in office blocks in city centres would be quite happy to live in them.


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## AJB Temple (30 Aug 2020)

Why? Many city office blocks are in great areas, very highly specified. You can walk or cycle to many local attractions. Prices will shoot down once freeholders realise they have a glut. We are always being told we need lots of new homes. Here we have them, already built - just needing a fit out. 

I recently sold up, but I had three floors of a 6 story building in the City. I would happily live there. It will revitalise city centres, but the unimaginative politicians have not woken up yet.


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## Blackswanwood (30 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> Why? Many city office blocks are in great areas, very highly specified. You can walk or cycle to many local attractions. Prices will shoot down once freeholders realise they have a glut. We are always being told we need lots of new homes. Here we have them, already built - just needing a fit out.
> 
> I recently sold up, but I had three floors of a 6 story building in the City. I would happily live there. It will revitalise city centres, but the unimaginative politicians have not woken up yet.



I agree with you - it’s opportunity that politicians should embrace to make sure it happens in the best way.

Planning laws have already been relaxed on office to residential conversions. The results are mixed - some are excellent but unfortunately also including some that the developers should be ashamed of.


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## AJB Temple (30 Aug 2020)

I used to own a property development business (sold a good few years ago) and the current environment might tempt me back. However, leveraging opportunities are not there yet for the small developer. It needs city office property prices to crash first. I suspect this may well happen, but people are still optimistic thus far into the pandemic.


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## Rorschach (30 Aug 2020)

I'm not so sure about how things will turn out. At the moment we are in unusual times and for some (not us) staying in isolation seems a good option. However as time goes on people will start to miss the benefits of office life and I think they will want to go back.
London types commuting long distances to anonymous offices with expensive lunches and long days, they might enjoy working from home, especially if they live in the suburbs with a nice house and a garden. Those who live in the smaller cities who only travel a few miles to a friendly office full of their friends however might not feel the same in 6 months and might miss the personal touch. 

The problem we have is that the media only voices the views of the chattering classes, those original proponents of lockdown sat at home with their G&T saying everyone should enjoy a bit of working in their home office. They are not real people living in the real world and we should be wary of what they say, look at the trouble it has got us in.


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## Blackswanwood (30 Aug 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> I used to own a property development business (sold a good few years ago) and the current environment might tempt me back. However, leveraging opportunities are not there yet for the small developer. It needs city office property prices to crash first. I suspect this may well happen, but people are still optimistic thus far into the pandemic.


Not sure it will be that far off ... Property Funds are under significant pressure for liquidity on redemptions already.


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## AJB Temple (30 Aug 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> Not sure it will be that far off ... Property Funds are under significant pressure for liquidity on redemptions already.


I agree really. The issue I see is that planning policy has typically taken a while to change and finance will be an issue for at least two years. Hence I am being conservative. I think our Agent Provocateur has a point, but in my world pretty much everyone over 30 that I employed, had moved into commuter zones to have children and a garden. Only the 20-30 staff lived in London as such. 90% of them rented. There is an opportunity here I feel. But I think I will probably keep further thoughts to myself now.


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## Trainee neophyte (30 Aug 2020)

If cities aren't commercial hubs, what is their point? People flocked to the cities because there wasn't any work for them in the villages - population growth and increased farming efficiency meant no work, inheritance laws gave the land to the eldest son, but luckily the industrial revolution had had a need for desperate, starving peasants in large numbers. That is no longer the case, so why live in a city?

Interesting changes to come...


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

Mmmmm ........ I read yesterday someone listing all the wonderful reasons for living in London. They were virtually the same as my list for avoiding the place.


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## AES (31 Aug 2020)

While it's true that the expansion of cities did indeed begin because of the reasons TN gives, he is - not for the first time IMO - somewhat wide of the mark these days - IMO you're a "typical prophet of doom & gloom" mate.

IMO, while there are plenty of people who do not want to live in, for example, London (me included BTW), there are many who would like exactly that chance but cannot due to prices.

Looking round the world at a number of large cities, there have been many attempts at developments to make cities - or at least some parts of them - very pleasant places to both live and work in. As said, not for me, but as is so often the case, it takes "different strokes for different ......" and all that.

Regarding the future, personally I think that AJB Temple is likely much nearer the mark than the Forum's resident "Greek God"


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## Blackswanwood (31 Aug 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> If cities aren't commercial hubs, what is their point? People flocked to the cities because there wasn't any work for them in the villages - population growth and increased farming efficiency meant no work, inheritance laws gave the land to the eldest son, but luckily the industrial revolution had had a need for desperate, starving peasants in large numbers. That is no longer the case, so why live in a city?
> 
> Interesting changes to come...


Because some people (quite a lot) like the lifestyle it gives them in terms of restaurants, theatres, culture and being around people. I have several friends who live in cities around the world who don't need to for work purposes. Cities of the future should be clean, well planned and pleasant places to live.


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## Roseland 2 (31 Aug 2020)

Like many others, I try and buy locally, but I draw the line at Currys/PC World. I bought a colour laser printer (>£1000) from them, and had trouble getting it to work. After a month of it not working I complained and they said it was out of warranty. Although it was personal purchase, on a personal credit card, they had put it through their business sales team. The small print, which I only saw after the event, confirmed their goods only have a 30 day warranty. My solicitor said I stood no chance. Currys/PC World deserve to go bust.


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

AES said:


> While it's true that the expansion of cities did indeed begin because of the reasons TN gives, he is - not for the first time IMO - somewhat wide of the mark these days - IMO you're a "typical prophet of doom & gloom" mate.
> 
> IMO, while there are plenty of people who do not want to live in, for example, London (me included BTW), there are many who would like exactly that chance but cannot due to prices.
> 
> ...



I'd love to live in London. Not dead centre because I need a garden and workshop but I'd be more than happy to live within the M25 circle. Of all the places I have visited (so far anyway) London is by far my favourite city and we go several times a year for a holiday, love it. Can't wait until our next trip coming up shortly.


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> Because some people (quite a lot) like the lifestyle it gives them in terms of restaurants, theatres, culture and being around people. I have several friends who live in cities around the world who don't need to for work purposes. Cities of the future should be clean, well planned and pleasant places to live.


It sounds delightful - a cross between the nicer bits of Amsterdam and the posh apartments overlooking central park is what comes to mind, with theatregoers in evening dress sauntering through leafy boulevards. Unfortunately, I would expect Lagos or Dakar to be a more likely outcome.


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2020)

AES said:


> While it's true that the expansion of cities did indeed begin because of the reasons TN gives, he is - not for the first time IMO - somewhat wide of the mark these days - IMO you're a "typical prophet of doom & gloom" mate.
> 
> IMO, while there are plenty of people who do not want to live in, for example, London (me included BTW), there are many who would like exactly that chance but cannot due to prices.
> 
> ...


If I am an ancient figure of any kind, I would be Ozzymandius, or possibly Cassandra. 

We are discussing a major UK chain having no stock, and an inferred, and quite likely, cash flow crisis. And yet no one seems to consider the implications of this, and whether it is just Curry's or more widespread. No stock = no economic activity. 

Put it another way: all the manufactured, contrived crises that everyone is so scared of are irrelevant, but the huge, enraged elephant sitting on your lap is completely invisible to everyone. The economy is no more. It is deceased. It has gone to meet its maker. I could go on. 

Winter is coming. Are you ready?


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> If I am an ancient figure of any kind, I would be Ozzymandius, or possibly Cassandra.
> 
> We are discussing a major UK chain having no stock, and an inferred, and quite likely, cash flow crisis. And yet no one seems to consider the implications of this, and whether it is just Curry's or more widespread. No stock = no economic activity.
> 
> ...



Back on page one I alluded to this.


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> I'd love to live in London. Not dead centre because I need a garden and workshop but I'd be more than happy to live within the M25 circle. Of all the places I have visited (so far anyway) London is by far my favourite city and we go several times a year for a holiday, love it. Can't wait until our next trip coming up shortly.



I spent two days there nine years ago, the first time I'd been there in about forty years. If I never go there again it'll be too soon. Vile place.


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I spent two days there nine years ago, the first time I'd been there in about forty years. If I never go there again it'll be too soon. Vile place.



 Fair enough. Luckily we all get to choose the places we spend our time, an afternoon in Truro once was enough for me


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## Lons (31 Aug 2020)

I wouldn't live in London and turned a move down many years ago, it's overcrowded and litter strewn streets don't appeal in the slightest but don't mind occasional visits to see the sights. My niece, a specialist nurse along with partner a BBC political journalist love it there but I suspect their views might change as their baby daughter grows up and they tire of the hustle and bustle.

On the other hand I'd very happily move to Sydney or Perth in Oz and have been tempted a couple of times.


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> Fair enough. Luckily we all get to choose the places we spend our time, an afternoon in Truro once was enough for me


An afternoon in Truro is enough for me.


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## Terry - Somerset (31 Aug 2020)

Cities will change. 

Many will not return to "old normal", and I suspect the "new normal" may be 3/4 days WFH and 1/2 days in an office. This allows interaction with colleagues, preserves corporate identity and culture, and delivers a large part of the benefits that WFH brings.

Most companies, unless they simply go bust, cannot easily lose existing lease commitments. Owners of office buildings will be reluctant to give up income streams which support building values. So expect any change to be progressive over a number of years, not immediate.

There will be a growth in rent by the hour/day/week pods and meeting rooms on a more local basis to accomodate those who are unable to WFH due to space or family constraints.

Cites can be great places to visit occasionally, but having moved from London and the south-east I would not contemplate returning. 

City living requires significant income levels to make the most of the diversity of experiences (music, arts, theatre, museums, food etc) AND have somewhere adequately sized in which to live. Sadly I don't enjoy a 6 figure after tax income!

Suburbs are a non-starter - too far from the centre to easily enjoy the benefits, too close to be free of pollution, congestions, property prices.


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## scrimper (31 Aug 2020)

You have to go back to the abolishing of retail price maintenance back in the 1964 to find the ‘roots’ of the poor service we find from many large suppliers today.

As a Young man I worked for several small electrical retailers during the 1960’s, in those days all shops sold at the same price and customers bought items not on price paid but the standard of service given by the shop. The result of this was that the customer was ‘king’ and the shops that offered the best service both before and after sale got the business.

The customer profited by RPM because not only did they receive quality service the shops employed people who knew about the products they were selling, on top of this the customers old appliance or TV etc would be traded in and given a decent part exchange allowance.

The trade in was also good for the environment because rather than being scrapped the traded in items would be reconditioned and sold to people who could not afford to buy new.

With my brother we had our own electrical business from 1975 until 1999 when we sold up due to a family tragedy, the business traded on until around 2013 when along with many other small electrical retailers it could no longer compete with the large ‘box-shifters’.

Back in the 1960’s a customer would come to the shop and be given all the information and advice, if they placed an order we would deliver the item (free delivery of course and often same day) and install it for the customer then spend time showing the customer how it worked etc.

In the case of a TV set we would deliver the TV to the customers house and while I was up on the roof installing the aerial on the chimney the other staff person was installing the TV and tuning it in. We did not leave the home until all was working well.

Unfortunately retail price maintenance was abolished and people chose to buy on price rather than service resulting in a few large companies buying in bulk that small shops could not do prospering and resulting in the closure of lot’s of small electrical shops that gave brilliant service.

In the end the customer lost out because in most cases only a few big boys like Currys etc are left and little service is given plus most places now charge about the same prices anyway!


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

@scrimper that's all well and good except you are talking about a bygone age when technology was simple and limited. That model simply won't won't today, technology is vast and ever changing.
Customer service is still (fairly) important but the kind of shopping experience you are talking about died decades ago and will never return.


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## AES (31 Aug 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> If I am an ancient figure of any kind, I would be Ozzymandius, or possibly Cassandra.
> 
> We are discussing a major UK chain having no stock, and an inferred, and quite likely, cash flow crisis. And yet no one seems to consider the implications of this, and whether it is just Curry's or more widespread. No stock = no economic activity.
> 
> ...




Blimey, 'ere we go aqain!!!!!!!!!!! Give it a rest, PLEASE! And re "I could go on." Just don't bother, we all know what you "think" (IF "think" is the right word)


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## AES (31 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> except you are talking about a bygone age when technology was simple and limited. That model simply won't won't today, technology is vast and ever changing.



Re the above quote Rorschach (see - I'm slowly getting the hang of using this new quote system!) surely that's all the more reason for retailers like we were talking about above? APART from price (and often stuff like huge Rates, etc, I see no reason why "that model simply won't work today" - if for no other reason that "technology is vast and ever changing",just as you say. I for one took weeks to learn how to use our last new TV

But there's more to it than that IMO. A lot of us (old fuddy-duddies may be) would gladly go back to "the old model" (and we do given the - unfortunately rare - opportunity). Not only for the knowledgeable advice, but for that indefinable feeling of somehow being valued as a human customer, rather than a unit to be turned over and milked asap.

But please note, again I stress in talking ONLY in the case of buying specialist stuff like tools for example.

But as an aside, I must say that in my own case (and now I'm definitely putting myself up for instant ridicule here - I can't be a REAL man - just wait for it!) I much enjoying going with my wife to buy dresses etc from the better Emporia. While I agree that it doesn't beat the thrill of buying my tools, sitting in a nice comfortable arm chair with a cup of coffee served by a generally attractive young lady and surrounded by other usually at least "passable" ladies of all ages is, IMO, not a bad way to spend an afternoon! Doesn't happen that often these days (Covid and growing old) but nice to recall. Not much to dislike there.

(Now withdrawing very fast, ducking VERY low, awaiting LOTS of incoming)


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

Oh you are certainly right that there is room for that kind of retailer in the specialist markets, I was talking more generically since we are on the topic of shops like Curry's. 

What you also need to remember as well is that you old fuddy duddies don't make up the vast majority of the retail market, you are not buying new technology on a regular basis. Shops are not going to cater to a small proportion of their market share.


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2020)

AES said:


> Blimey, 'ere we go aqain!!!!!!!!!!! Give it a rest, PLEASE! And re "I could go on." Just don't bother, we all know what you "think" (IF "think" is the right word)


So sorry. Everything is awesome! Got it.


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

Oh for the good old days when you could only buy your cooker from the electicity board shop and waited a year for a phone if you were lucky.


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## AES (31 Aug 2020)

Re Post #140:
You really ARE, IMO, a total nit wit TN! NOBODY said everything is OK (and NOTE please, I NEVER, EVER use the word awesome). (BTW, just where HAS that hammer thingy that we used to have gone to)?

Know what, I will make a prediction (or a series of if you like):

At some time in the future some BAD stuff will happen. Also at some time in the future, some GOOD stuff will happen. And know what? Despite the BAD stuff that will happen, and because of the GOOD stuff that will happen, the human race WILL still survive, changed maybe (as always) but survive nevertheless - even olive oil growers.

Now PLEASE stop this continual doom and gloom and at least go and enjoy your movie. You really ARE beginning to get on my mammaries (because you just keep harping on and on with the same perpetual gloom).


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## AES (31 Aug 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Oh for the good old days when you could only buy your cooker from the electicity board shop and waited a year for a phone if you were lucky.




Well Phil, it's a good long time ago now, but although I was only about 10 at the time, I seem to remember there were also some very attractive-looking ladies in the South Eastern Electricity Board showrooms too! And while I'm not completely sure how it was down in the Southwest, I'm not very surprised you had to wait a year for your phone if you ordered it in the electricity board shop. Ours came from the GPO! (can't find the "taking the mickey - but gently - smiley", sorry).


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2020)

AES said:


> Re Post #140:
> You really ARE, IMO, a total nit wit TN! NOBODY said everything is OK (and NOTE please, I NEVER, EVER use the word awesome). (BTW, just where HAS that hammer thingy that we used to have gone to)?
> 
> Know what, I will make a prediction (or a series of if you like):
> ...


"Lighten up, Francis". 

;-)


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

I remember my mother waiting for several months for a phone because her new house was on the corners of three adjoining telephone exchange areas and none of the three wanted to install it as it entailed hundreds of yards of wire. She had one area code, the house to one side had another and the house behind hers had another. This was very late '70s as things were getting a little better.


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## billw (31 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> Try doing it as part of QC on government dept helplines like DWP, Student Loans and a few others; totally soul destroying and at times heartbreaking



I had to claim travel expenses back from Student Loans Company this year. To say it was utterly soul-destroying is an understatement. Could not believe how difficult they tried to make things, especially when they give you virtually no guidance to start with and then dispute everything for not having the right paperwork.


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## scrimper (31 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> @scrimper that's all well and good except you are talking about a bygone age when technology was simple and limited. That model simply won't won't today, technology is vast and ever changing.
> Customer service is still (fairly) important but the kind of shopping experience you are talking about died decades ago and will never return.


Surely you have just reinforced my point, now that technology is much more sophisticated many people would like some good old fashioned service to help them out. I don't say this to be unkind but I know many older people who are totally confused when setting up new products today with their complex menu systems.


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## Rorschach (31 Aug 2020)

scrimper said:


> Surely you have just reinforced my point, now that technology is much more sophisticated many people would like some good old fashioned service to help them out. I don't say this to be unkind but I know many older people who are totally confused when setting up new products today with their complex menu systems.



I am not saying people wouldn't like it, I am sure there are plenty who would. I am saying there are not enough to make it financially viable and they are getting fewer every day.


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## billw (31 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> I believe the situation the high street finds itself in is the direct ultimate end state of capitalist consumerism, nothing else matters but price. Every generation since the end of WW2 has been bombarded with this most central tenet of consumerism. Hence the continuous decline in the build quality and longevity of the things we have. After all consumerism doesn't work if there is no need to replace what you have. So built in obsolescence has become the norm meaning ever cheaper parts and production methods that favour the mass producer and consequently the wholesaler at the expense of the little guy both in manufacture and retail.



This is pretty much the sum of it.


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## billw (31 Aug 2020)

Rorschach said:


> I am not saying people wouldn't like it, I am sure there are plenty who would. I am saying there are not enough to make it financially viable and they are getting fewer every day.



Which is centrally the argument about bank branches. My entire financial life sits on my iphone, I have absolutely zero reason to ever walk into a physical banking location. Within 30 years banks will have completely vanished as the last of the generation who, for whatever reason, can't/won't use electronic banking are gone.

My local town centre is full of boarded-up shops, the large chains are mostly gone and the one or two who remain I doubt will bother renewing their leases. There's talk of renovating it but in my eyes I'd just knock the whole thing down and build flats. Maybe have a niche retail area for small firms who pay rent only as a percentage of their sales to give them a fighting chance of survival.

I haven't missed wandering around the shops for the last 5 months, Amazon and Ebay provide 90% of what I want and the other 10% I just go to whatever brand's website I need. Returns have to be paid for by the seller, so what have I got to lose if I don't like or want it?


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## johnbaz (31 Aug 2020)

Some years ago we bought a high spec laptop from Curries, It came with a six month antivirus, I think it was called Bullguard, This activated when it was started up..

Bear in mind that technology flies right over my head!

One month after we'd bought it we got loads of viruses, It turned out that someone had been using it inside the shop and had activated it so it ran out when We had it four weeks later, It also had quite a few dead pixelson the screen, we wnet back with it to get a refund, They spunus all sorts of tales and in essence said, We'd bu**ered it up and would entertain a refund!

Now bear in mind that technology flies right over my head!

My eldest lad is a dab hand with computers so he took it back and thirty minutes later he gave us our money back!, He shot them down with everything they said apparently so they couldn't refuse!!

I've never been near the place since!!


John


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Aug 2020)

My nearest town has two what were "main" streets that are on quite steep hills. The road that bisects them is virtually flat and are minor, badly laid out (messes of) streets. Common sense would tell anyone the flat streets should be the main streets, but many of the roads were built to align with an estate that held nearly all the land three, four, five, six hundred years ago with London.
Towns and cities were not designed and built to suit 2020 and will have to be changed.


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## Jake (31 Aug 2020)

billw said:


> Returns have to be paid for by the seller, so what have I got to lose if I don't like or want it?



For now. as of next year the big online retailers will be lobbying hard for that to be dropped.


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## billw (31 Aug 2020)

Jake said:


> For now. as of next year the big online retailers will be lobbying hard for that to be dropped.



Yeah and in some circumstances I agree with their grievances, e.g. clothing retailers having to send tons of items out to a customer for them to try out and then return the ones they don't like. Hopefully some of them will come up with sensible policies that mean serial returners have to pay but those who only sparingly return stuff aren't unduly penalised.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

billw said:
Returns have to be paid for by the seller, so what have I got to lose if I don't like or want it?

I don't believe the retailer has to pay the return cost unless the goods are faulty or not as described.


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## Rorschach (1 Sep 2020)

artie said:


> billw said:
> Returns have to be paid for by the seller, so what have I got to lose if I don't like or want it?
> 
> I don't believe the retailer has to pay the return cost unless the goods are faulty or not as described.



You are correct, under distance selling regulations sellers are only liable for return costs on items that are faulty or sold with a false description. If you simply do not like the item then you are responsible for the return costs.


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## Jackbequick (1 Sep 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> If cities aren't commercial hubs, what is their point? People flocked to the cities because there wasn't any work for them in the villages - population growth and increased farming efficiency meant no work, inheritance laws gave the land to the eldest son, but luckily the industrial revolution had had a need for desperate, starving peasants in large numbers. That is no longer the case, so why live in a city?
> 
> Interesting changes to come...



The overpopulation was hanged from the age of 6 onwards . The Y shaped gibbet entertained the lunchtime crowds at Tyburn. Many 'criminals' trying to survive or pinching some minor item or upsetting some 'upper-class' _precieuse _ were sent to Australia where shockingly hundreds including children were maltreated, whipped, hanged . 

Cities growing suit politicians, financiers importers and small businesses ...in a sense they are invaluable but culture destroying. 

One expensive apartment building I wired in Sydney had kitchens with only an outlet for a microwave..why?? "because the sort of professionals who will live here will eat out or eat take-away". Phew!!...

Cities do offer a sort of 'life be in it' but there comes a point where the beauty becomes shadows. I recall as an apprentice working Sundays in Sydney city, the European migrants dressed typically in brown striped suits, with children and "Missus'...walking in the early morning the almost otherwise deserted streets. 

We all connected back then being so much the same, unlike now when Australians struggle to be tolerant when accused of 'isms' by the pious and sanctimonious bored new breed. 

An experiment was tried to make Bathurst a central business hub but it failed. The problems setting aside 'committed' people or those who should be really do come from overpopulation and selling the place out which Australia is well engaged in doing. Read "Clancy of the Overflow", Sydney and London had similarities.


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## Endy (1 Sep 2020)

Roseland 2 said:


> Like many others, I try and buy locally, but I draw the line at Currys/PC World. I bought a colour laser printer (>£1000) from them, and had trouble getting it to work. After a month of it not working I complained and they said it was out of warranty. Although it was personal purchase, on a personal credit card, they had put it through their business sales team. The small print, which I only saw after the event, confirmed their goods only have a 30 day warranty. My solicitor said I stood no chance. Currys/PC World deserve to go bust.


I bought a new cooker for my wife, she had intimated to me that she would love a new white cooker like the one on display in Curry’s/PC World, the day came for delivery and she eagerly took a pair of scissors to remove the polythene wrap and polystyrene, there it stood in all its naked glory on a pallet, her face dropped!???? The cooker was the stainless steel model and would look totally out of place with the rest of her pristine white kitchen, they had sent the wrong one!!!! They totally and utterly refused to exchange it as the packaging had been removed, we had a long drawn out battle with them and got nowhere, I never bought there again.


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## Jackbequick (1 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> You are correct, under distance selling regulations sellers are only liable for return costs on items that are faulty or sold with a false description. If you simply do not like the item then you are responsible for the return costs.


I'm afraid you are, said kindly, dreaming ...try to get the return postage...eBay is a perfect example...The thing is you want your money back, they have it. They don't give a toss about you...little you. There is no enforceable obligation anywhere to return postage return costs, why would they?...The Postal service got the postage money, not the vendor unless he/she/it added some profit into the postage...which happens commonly on eBay. Amazon and Abe owe me money based on their claims but which I will never recover for goods which never arrived.


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## Rorschach (1 Sep 2020)

Jackbequick said:


> I'm afraid you are, said kindly, dreaming ...try to get the return postage...eBay is a perfect example...The thing is you want your money back, they have it. They don't give a toss about you...little you. There is no enforceable obligation anywhere to return postage return costs, why would they?...The Postal service got the postage money, not the vendor unless he/she/it added some profit into the postage...which happens commonly on eBay. Amazon and Abe owe me money based on their claims but which I will never recover for goods which never arrived.



Dreaming? I think not. You might have had trouble but I have not had any trouble. I buy a lot of things online for my business and have not had a problem in getting refunds of both the item and postage where applicable. I know how distance selling regulations work, I sell online as part of my job.

Maybe you would like to do some research before you come here and tell me I am wrong. The information is very easy to find.
In fact, here is a very good concise version:








Consumer Contracts Regulations - Which?


The Consumer Contracts Regulations give you rights and protection when buying products and services online.




www.which.co.uk


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## lurker (1 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> Dreaming? I think not. You might have had trouble but I have not had any trouble. I buy a lot of things online for my business and have not had a problem in getting refunds of both the item and postage where applicable. I know how distance selling regulations work, I sell online as part of my job.
> 
> Maybe you would like to do some research before you come here and tell me I am wrong. The information is very easy to find.
> In fact, here is a very good concise version:
> ...



sometime (maybe sooner than you imagine) you will be thinking back to the good old days when the consumer law you quote was in force.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

Jackbequick said:


> I'm afraid you are, said kindly, dreaming ...try to get the return postage...eBay is a perfect example...The thing is you want your money back, they have it. They don't give a toss about you...little you. There is no enforceable obligation anywhere to return postage return costs, why would they?...The Postal service got the postage money, not the vendor unless he/she/it added some profit into the postage...which happens commonly on eBay. Amazon and Abe owe me money based on their claims but which I will never recover for goods which never arrived.


Not dreaming, I've had return postage paid a few times. 

On the one occasion where an ebay vendor refused payment of return postage and refund of item price I did a charge back to my card, AIB were happy to help.


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## billw (1 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> You are correct, under distance selling regulations sellers are only liable for return costs on items that are faulty or sold with a false description. If you simply do not like the item then you are responsible for the return costs.



Ah, i just had a quick look as the reason for my comment was a news story about ASOS - their policy is that if you don't like something you can return it at their expense any time during the first 28 days. It looks like this is overly generous compared to legal provisions!

I also saw that they do mention that if they suspect someone is taking the mick they'll close their account.


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## Jackbequick (1 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> Dreaming? I think not. You might have had trouble but I have not had any trouble. I buy a lot of things online for my business and have not had a problem in getting refunds of both the item and postage where applicable. I know how distance selling regulations work, I sell online as part of my job.
> 
> Maybe you would like to do some research before you come here and tell me I am wrong. The information is very easy to find.
> In fact, here is a very good concise version:
> ...


 Thanks for the advice based on your purported situation.I am speaking of facts not the theory fantasised to drive facts. The facts, of course within my panorama, are as I stated...You can how whistle whinge and wave papers at reluctant vendors and still not have your return postage returned. eBay is a prime example of shonky vendors and why would they return money they never received? The goodness of their heart?...could happen, has happened but I doubt it would be even 5% based on my exposure. Abe and Amazon...they are evaders....they just stop replying....You 'selling on line' will rush to return your postage or successfully recover postage on individual items through your claiming to know the right of it all ?....doubt it almost the the point of "pfffft" but then....with all your experience in having to return so many goods you have bought and get your postage back, I can only humbly say 'wow...good on you managing to get fact to follow theory'. I tip my hat to you.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

Jackbequick said:


> and why would they return money they never received? The goodness of their heart?...


They are obligated to refund postage because it was part of the contract with "you" freely entered into.

"you" pay for an item to be delivered + or including postage. 

If the item delivered is not as described or faulty then the contract has not been fulfilled and "you" are entitled to full reimbursement.


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## greengrass1 (1 Sep 2020)

Check the card reader/ till display before you pay that's what its for.
1 .One complaint is use of the thermal till receipts they fade useually near end of your warranty. This is why I pay by card only, for items. I don’t bother complaining about cheap items, anything below £20 with policy “you get what you pay for” I write off. Why card? Because statement of payments from your bank is .as good as a receipt.
2. Be cool, calm and of clear thoughts what you are complaning about emphasize its the complaint is against manufacturer . Rudeness/ aggresion shows your calibre of being unfit dealing with situations in a cool manner and need to get somebody capable so your complaint is resolved quickly, friendly and amicable.
DON’T GO IN STORE GUNG-HO, OR BE ABUSIVE ON PHONE! Leave that to those who should not be on the streets on their own. Just remember its the manufacturers your complaint is directed at, not retailer, they sell on trusting what their supplier has sold them. Giving cool reported complaint allows retailer to decide if they should discontinue that product/ wharehouse.
So keep calm and your blood pressure won’t rise to a dangerous leve, and you won’t have heart attack.
And if you make a mistake admit it.
I know have been both sides, retailer and customer.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

greengrass1 said:


> Check the card reader/ till display before you pay that's what its for.
> 1 .One complaint is use of the thermal till receipts they fade useually near end of your warranty. This is why I pay by card only, for items. I don’t bother complaining about cheap items, anything below £20 with policy “you get what you pay for” I write off. Why card? Because statement of payments from your bank is .as good as a receipt.
> 2. Be cool, calm and of clear thoughts what you are complaning about emphasize its the complaint is against manufacturer . Rudeness/ aggresion shows your calibre of being unfit dealing with situations in a cool manner and need to get somebody capable so your complaint is resolved quickly, friendly and amicable.
> DON’T GO IN STORE GUNG-HO, OR BE ABUSIVE ON PHONE! Leave that to those who should not be on the streets on their own. Just remember its the manufacturers your complaint is directed at, not retailer, they sell on trusting what their supplier has sold them. Giving cool reported complaint allows retailer to decide if they should discontinue that product/ wharehouse.
> ...


Pretty sure you are mistaken.
Your contract is with the retailer. At least for the first 6 months from purchase. After that your position is not so firm but still enforceable.
Agree 100% about keeping calm and standing firmly on your rights.


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## marcros (1 Sep 2020)

I think greengrass1 is saying that the complaint is about the manufacturer's goods, something that "you" and the retailer have in common (the retailer has been let down in the same way that you have), rather than suggesting that the contract or claim is with the manufacturer directly.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

marcros said:


> I think greengrass1 is saying that the complaint is about the manufacturer's goods, something that "you" and the retailer have in common (the retailer has been let down in the same way that you have), rather than suggesting that the contract or claim is with the manufacturer directly.


Possibly,
I have found it quite common in real shops as opposed to online, to be told just leave it with me and I'll contact the wholesaler/ agent/manufacturer/ importer/ uncle tom cobbly. 
Without fail when I point out that the contract is between him/her and me and doesn't involve anyone else, it gets sorted.
They are at liberty to sort out with the wholesaler/ agent/manufacturer/ importer/ uncle tom cobbly themselves.


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## Blackswanwood (1 Sep 2020)

I am not criticising or being a smart @RSE but part of what I do for a living involves the application of the Consumer Rights Act and there is dated and inaccurate information in some of the previous posts in this thread.

The best explanation of the Consumer Rights Act I have seen is here:

consumer-rights-refunds-exchange

Most people do not know just how well protected we are in the UK.

This link also explains the benefits of having used a credit card for purchases between £100 and £30k if you find something goes wrong with a purchase.









Section 75 Refunds


Section 75 protects your purchases over £100 if you use a credit card. This MoneySavingExpert guide tells you how to reclaim if something goes wrong.




www.moneysavingexpert.com


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## Oddbod (1 Sep 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> My nearest town has two what were "main" streets that are on quite steep hills. The road that bisects them is virtually flat and are minor, badly laid out (messes of) streets. Common sense would tell anyone the flat streets should be the main streets, but many of the roads were built to align with an estate that held nearly all the land three, four, five, six hundred years ago with London.
> Towns and cities were not designed and built to suit 2020 and will have to be changed.



I've spent plenty of times in US towns & cities built on the grid system & supposedly far superior.
Believe me; the traffic is just as screwed up as it is in Nottingham, Newark or Newcastle.


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## Oddbod (1 Sep 2020)

greengrass1 said:


> 1 .One complaint is use of the thermal till receipts they fade useually near end of your warranty.



???

I have thousands of thermal receipt copies going back a decade (part of my business records) & they're all still legible.


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## artie (1 Sep 2020)

greengrass1 said:


> 1 .One complaint is use of the thermal till receipts they fade usually near end of your warranty.



Got caught out like this with a Lidl receipt. Now I photograph them.


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## Daniel2 (2 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> You are correct, under distance selling regulations sellers are only liable for return costs on items that are faulty or sold with a false description. If you simply do not like the item then you are responsible for the return costs.



Which, for once, is how it should be, IMO


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## Rorschach (2 Sep 2020)

Daniel2 said:


> Which, for once, is how it should be, IMO



Yes I have always thought that was a pretty fair solution to the issue of distance selling. It seems most clothing companies go above and beyond this offering free returns for any reason. Probably the only way that kind of business can work though. I don't like buying clothes online personally, too much hassle, I would much rather go into a shop, try it on, inspect it and walk out knowing I have the item I want and that fits, currently of course you can't even do that.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2020)

Oddbod said:


> I've spent plenty of times in US towns & cities built on the grid system & supposedly far superior.
> Believe me; the traffic is just as screwed up as it is in Nottingham, Newark or Newcastle.


They were probably excellent at the time they were designed.


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## AJB Temple (2 Sep 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> They were probably excellent at the time they were designed.


Romans started it. They were partial to straight lines. And crosses. And chariots. Or maybe the Greeks. Possibly the Egyptians. Or Chinese.


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## Robbo3 (3 Sep 2020)

Quote from today's Daily Mail

"Remember to brush up on your rights

If you buy online you are entitled to a 14 day cooling off period. This means you can return the item within this time frame (starting the day after you receive it) for whatever reason & get a full refund.
This includes the cost of postage when you send it back." etc, etc.


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## Rorschach (3 Sep 2020)

Robbo3 said:


> Quote from today's Daily Mail
> 
> "Remember to brush up on your rights
> 
> ...



That's incorrect though, you are not entitled to return postage if you just changed your mind, only the cost of the original postage to send it to you.


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## artie (3 Sep 2020)

Robbo3 said:


> Quote from today's Daily Mail
> 
> "Remember to brush up on your rights
> 
> ...



Does this come from the distance selling regulations. and only applicable to certain goods and services?

If that were true of all sales, I could order a new saw, router, plane for a project do the job in a week and send it back for a full refund + postage both ways. 

I don't think so.


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## marcros (3 Sep 2020)

Robbo3 said:


> Quote from today's Daily Mail
> 
> "Remember to brush up on your rights
> 
> ...



Quoting the Daily Mail is laughable, you may as well quote the bloke in the local takeaway. The actual information is freely available. 

The distance selling regulations have been superseded. They no longer apply. The Consumer Contracts Regulations are now applicable. 





__





The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013


These Regulations implement most provisions of Directive 2011/83/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 on consumer rights, amending Council Directive 93/13/EEC and Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council and repealing Council Directive...




www.legislation.gov.uk








__





The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013


These Regulations implement most provisions of Directive 2011/83/EU of the European Parliament and of the Council of 25 October 2011 on consumer rights, amending Council Directive 93/13/EEC and Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council and repealing Council Directive...




www.legislation.gov.uk





picking relevant parts out of the actual legislation:

34.—(1) The trader must reimburse all payments, other than payments for delivery, received from the consumer, subject to paragraph (10).

(2) The trader must reimburse any payment for delivery received from the consumer, unless the consumer expressly chose a kind of delivery costing more than the least expensive common and generally acceptable kind of delivery offered by the trader.

(3) In that case, the trader must reimburse any payment for delivery received from the consumer up to the amount the consumer would have paid if the consumer had chosen the least expensive common and generally acceptable kind of delivery offered by the trader.

(4) Reimbursement must be without undue delay, and in any event not later than the time specified in paragraph (5) or (6).

...

35.5(a) 
The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless—
(a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or
[note there are other exceptions, but they will not generally apply]

There is more to it than these couple of extracts. Many retail's terms and conditions are more generous and will bear the costs of return postage

if that is heavy going, Which simplify it, Distance Selling Regulations (this is the out of date stuff that could be found by googling and links to the new regulations) Consumer Contracts Regulations

I wouldn't rely on the daily mail for anything- I once saw it described as a bile filled hate rag which I think was about right, although the mainline comments section is entertaining to read at times.


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## Rorschach (3 Sep 2020)

It's quite simple:

If you buy something and don't like it you can send it back for a full refund including original delivery, but you must pay the return postage.

If you buy something and it is faulty or not fit for purpose you can send it back and get a full refund including the cost of return postage.


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## Droogs (3 Sep 2020)

Marcros you are such a spoilsport . I had gotten my hopes up for fitting the new kitchen after reading @artie 's post


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## marcros (3 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> It's quite simple:
> 
> If you buy something and don't like it you can send it back for a full refund including original delivery, but you must pay the return postage.



as a minimum, the retailer may have a policy of covering the return postage.


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## Rorschach (3 Sep 2020)

marcros said:


> as a minimum, the retailer may have a policy of covering the return postage.



Well yes of course, but I was trying to keep it simple lol


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## Daniel2 (3 Sep 2020)

marcros said:


> as a minimum, the retailer may have a policy of covering the return postage.



I cannot agree with that, I'm afraid.
It would be great in an ideal world, but it is just too open to abuse.
All this could be simple, if the human race could just behave itself.
Returning something you have chosen, that has no faults, but that you don't like, 
or have changed your mind, is grossly unfair on the seller.
I also think that, in the case of abusive returns, the buyer should also bear the
outward transport costs.
Only my opinion .....


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## Garno (3 Sep 2020)

Daniel2 said:


> I cannot agree with that, I'm afraid.
> It would be great in an ideal world, but it is just too open to abuse.
> All this could be simple, if the human race could just behave itself.
> Returning something you have chosen, that has no faults, but that you don't like,
> ...



And mine


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## marcros (3 Sep 2020)

Daniel2 said:


> I cannot agree with that, I'm afraid.
> It would be great in an ideal world, but it is just too open to abuse.
> All this could be simple, if the human race could just behave itself.
> Returning something you have chosen, that has no faults, but that you don't like,
> ...



my quote was badly worded. What I meant was that what roschach said is correct, but the retailer may choose to do more than the law allows, and that it is worth checking. This is their own free choice, they dont have to do this by law but have worked out that it helps them to sell more. I think this will change for abusive returners at some point.

I dont know what you disagree with, it is fact. for example:






Returns | Debenhams







www.debenhams.com












How do I return my order?


Our returns are FREE and simple. Your dispatch note will not have a returns label. Don't worry if you don't have a printer, most of our returns providers offer FREE label printing*. For mo...




help-uk.newlook.com





just a couple that I googled.


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## Rorschach (3 Sep 2020)

Whatever your opinion that is how the law stands at the moment and personally I think it is a fair compromise.


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## Daniel2 (3 Sep 2020)

marcros said:


> my quote was badly worded. What I meant was that what roschach said is correct, but the retailer may choose to do more than the law allows, and that it is worth checking. This is their own free choice, they dont have to do this by law but have worked out that it helps them to sell more. I think this will change for abusive returners at some point.
> 
> I dont know what you disagree with, it is fact. for example:
> 
> ...



I think that we are probably saying the same thing.
If a retailer chooses to offer more than is legally required, then good on them.
I suppose that I'm just concerned that too much power can be given to the consumer,
which can be, predictably IMO, abused. 
It's already hard enough to make a profit these days.
Equally, the consumer should have a certain protection from the unscrupulous.
For the record, I'm an absolute consumer. I rarely sell anything, as my long suffering
wife would testify  
Also, I rarely let something like an Actual Fact get in the way of an opinion. 

ATB,
Daniel


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## Alpha-Dave (12 Sep 2020)

Back on topic: I needed a new PC monitor today, so went to Currys. Of the ~30 models on their website there were only 3 in the shop (one of each model) none of which were on display due to a policy of not opening the boxes on the new stock because that’s one that they can’t sell. They had very low stock of most things.

I decided to go with one that was slightly higher spec than I intended rather than a lower spec 2018 model, or my 3rd option which was a 90 min round trip to the nearest Argos that had the model I first wanted.

The shop was busy, people queuing for both talking to the staff and the tills, but it seemed many slow conversations and not much selling, significantly due to lack of stock. They may be doing a roaring trade online though.


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## Terry - Somerset (13 Sep 2020)

I have just ordered a new oven and hob.

Did some research, and went to Currys which is pretty much the only place locally where one can see the physical goods. Some stock on display but not what I wanted.

Priced items including fitting at Currys online and came close £1050. Go online to AO and the cost is £880. No contest is there!

The white goods sector needs to rethink its approach to retailing - it is no surprise that online is cheaper as they do not have stores, displays, staff etc to pay for.


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## Richard_C (13 Sep 2020)

I've used AO for a couple of things in the last 2 years. Washing machine and Freezer. Always used John Lewis up to then, but after a dismal JL but contracted out delivery of expensive fridge and freezer stuff to my SiL's house that was just bad in every possible way I thought I would give them a go. Plus their stock/delivery seems better.

I was well pleased, aside from the inevitable follow up call to try and sell me extended warranty, not too pushy though and politely quickly ended, delivery on time by their own people, if you call them its real people in Lostock (Bolton) who really do seem to care. We had a freezer failure, borrowed space in neighbours freezers, rang AO to say "want an upright to fit in this space, prefer Bosch, AEG or similar, what can you get me quickly"...all sorted and arrived next day, good price as well .

I hope your AO experience is as good as mine, they do seem to be better than Currys and John Lewis these days.


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Sep 2020)

+1 for AO. they're brilliant. We have insurance on the washing machine and the cooker as they are the most expensive to repair - we've done very well out of it. A washing machine replaced, and three call outs on the cooker with one to come for a new control panel. Don't forget that if the drum bearing packs up on a washing machine now the machine will be written off as the bearings are not replaceable (with the exeception of Miele iirc).


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## Rorschach (13 Sep 2020)

Aye you have done well out of the insurance, but it doesn't say much about the quality of the goods does it?! lol


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## billw (13 Sep 2020)

Clothing retailers are generous with returns because the standard industry mark up is 2.75x


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## Richard_C (13 Sep 2020)

Gross margin. So the commercial decision is do we have a generous returns policy to encourage online sales or do we pay rent rates staff and fitting out for stores. Do we have one warehouse or distributed stock in all colours and sizes on multiple sites. For mass market, not needing preening and flattering retail staff to make Sir or Madam feel important, online will surely give you more net profit. Clothing retailers could probably cut down on returns by removing the @RAND function from their tape measures. When I was a suit buying office warrior in the 70s an M&S 38 was 38, now its anything from a lot less to a tent like lot more. I bet as much stuff gets returned for wrong size as for don't like. 

Back to Rorsach comment 2 above, is this a deliberate non sequitur or do you not understand that a Bosch, Hotpoint, Zanussi or whatever from AO will be just the same as one from any other retailer?


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## artie (13 Sep 2020)

Richard_C said:


> Back to Rorsach comment 2 above, is this a deliberate non sequitur or do you not understand that a Bosch, Hotpoint, Zanussi or whatever from AO will be just the same as one from any other retailer?


I'm not sure all products are created equal, 
But I can't prove it A guy who I new a while back told me that the McCullogh chain saws sold in B&Q were a cheaper version made only for them.

I know you weren't talking about B&Q or chainsaws but the idea is the same.


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## Rorschach (13 Sep 2020)

Richard_C said:


> Back to Rorsach comment 2 above, is this a deliberate non sequitur or do you not understand that a Bosch, Hotpoint, Zanussi or whatever from AO will be just the same as one from any other retailer?



I wasn't attacking AO, I was attacking the products themselves. As @artie correctly points out though big retailers can get different spec models made just for them TV's are the most common for this, Curry's will sell a TV that is made just for them, the basic model number will be the same as that sold by others but there will be an additional model number that designates it for Curry's. The quality therefore can vary. Whether AO does this I don't know but that wasnt my point anyway.


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## Andy Kev. (14 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> But the exception that is testing the rule is also proving that the rule doesn't apply


I think that AJB may have gotcha. You may be confusing a rule with a law in the "law of Physics" sense of the term.


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## Rorschach (14 Sep 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> I think that AJB may have gotcha. You may be confusing a rule with a law in the "law of Physics" sense of the term.



Weird to bring this up again. If you look further you will see that I was making a joke there and then later on I was pointing out how stupid that phrase is since it doesn't make sense in common parlance.


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## Andy Kev. (14 Sep 2020)

I realise that it was all light-hearted (hence my reply in the same manner) and I wasn't from my POV bringing it up again as it was the first time I read this thread.,


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## Myfordman (28 Sep 2020)

I've just agreed to buy a "buy to let" flat. I have a keen as mustard tenant waiting and I'll have little more than 2 weeks to get it ready to let. Decorate carpets etc
I'll need a washing machine from a reliable supplier. In the past i've used Curry's with no problems, but in the light of this thread, I'll be looking elsewhere.

Anyone used AO recently and care to share experiences please?
Or Argos maybe?

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Sep 2020)

I have bought from AO four or five times and they are brilliant.


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## Myfordman (28 Sep 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I have bought from AO four or five times and they are brilliant.


The OPwas about Currys and I was unsure if it was a covid related stock problem that might apply to other suppliers.
Have you used AO in the last few months Phil?


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## doctor Bob (28 Sep 2020)

everywhere is short of appliances.


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## Myfordman (28 Sep 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> everywhere is short of appliances.


Thanks Bob!


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## doctor Bob (28 Sep 2020)

washing machines are Ok I think, dishwashers and microwaves are the difficult items. 
Seems to be a knock on effect, some powertools are difficult to get hold of at present.


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman said:


> The OPwas about Currys and I was unsure if it was a covid related stock problem that might apply to other suppliers.
> Have you used AO in the last few months Phil?


No. I suspect they have the same problems as others now.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman said:


> I've just agreed to buy a "buy to let" flat. I have a keen as mustard tenant waiting and I'll have little more than 2 weeks to get it ready to let. Decorate carpets etc
> I'll need a washing machine from a reliable supplier. In the past i've used Curry's with no problems, but in the light of this thread, I'll be looking elsewhere.
> 
> Anyone used AO recently and care to share experiences please?
> ...



Why are you supplying the washing machine? Let the tenant do it, then you are not liable for repairs.


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## clogs (29 Sep 2020)

mY daughter was a manager for Car Phone w/house seperate store.....took it from a wreck to almost the best in the county....
Her thanks for 4 years hard work was the TICKET to RIDE".....and they even messed her tax up to boot.....
Long hours and no thanks.....
Now she still has long hours but in training to be a Paramedic.....good from bad.....
Big big company just don't care.....I blame the over paid do nothing accountants for trashing this world....


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## NikNak (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman.... is this your first 'toe in the water' re being a landlord.? We've just got out of the 'game' after 13yrs(ish) and have plenty of tales to tell.... I see you're also Soton, pm me if you'd like any advice.


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## lurker (29 Sep 2020)

We took delivery of a fridge freezer from AO last week, ordered the previous week.
Was faultless transaction including the delivery men who put the it in the kitchen and took all the packaging away.


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## Terry - Somerset (29 Sep 2020)

I had a new oven and hob fitted about 2 weeks ago by AO. Totally painless - good price, good communication, turned up on time, fitted ok. Would definitely use again.


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## Myfordman (29 Sep 2020)

Thanks Guys
I think AO will be the route I'll go.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman said:


> Thanks Guys
> I think AO will be the route I'll go.



I'll repeat it again, why are you supplying the washing machine?


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## Myfordman (29 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> I'll repeat it again, why are you supplying the washing machine?


I dont think that I have to justify my business principles to you


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## Terry - Somerset (29 Sep 2020)

It is likely the case that providing a washing machine increases the pool of potential tenants, and possibly even the rent.

Were it typically let to students (sharing?) it may be much more attractive if basic white goods are supplied - possibly even basic furnishing (sofa, table, beds etc).

Second hand charity shop items are not massively expensive even for reasonable quality.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman said:


> I dont think that I have to justify my business principles to you



No quite right you don't, but a reply, even a dismissive one, earlier would have been polite. You seen to be a first time landlord and I was trying to help you with one of the common first timer mistakes.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

Terry - Somerset said:


> It is likely the case that providing a washing machine increases the pool of potential tenants, and possibly even the rent.
> 
> Were it typically let to students (sharing?) it may be much more attractive if basic white goods are supplied - possibly even basic furnishing (sofa, table, beds etc).
> 
> Second hand charity shop items are not massively expensive even for reasonable quality.



There is no shortage of eager tenants for a well priced property in a good area, you don't need to make things any more attractive (and costly) for yourself.


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## Richard_C (29 Sep 2020)

Myfordman makes fair point. It can be a matter of principle or just good commercial sense.

I have one (inherited) house let out and supply all white goods. Depends on your market. Current tenants happen to be local, previous 2 were families coming here to work in the University or research labs on 2 year post doctoral contracts and its a sort of given that white goods are included. A washing machine costs less than one month rent. I have never had a void of more than a few days because the place is attractive and the rent competitive.

AO are good and now my supplier of choice for most things.


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## Myfordman (29 Sep 2020)

I have mutiple properties rented out and a £200/250 washing machine will return its purchase price in extra rent within its warranty period. Thereafter is pure bonus/profit with my choice to replace or repair in the event of a problem. 
I let quality properties any of which I would be happy to live in myself if I needed to.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

If your properties are nice I would bet that you could charge the same rent with or without a washing machine provided.


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## Myfordman (29 Sep 2020)

I provide what they need. Most of my tenant are either engaged/newly wed couples or mature singles renting their first place post separation. Most need white goods. I have another couple who are "Serial Renters" and they have much of their own stuff but as it happened, no washing machine. 
I ask what they want and use that in the rent calculation. Same with curtains and carpets according what they want/need.


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

Fair enough.


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## lurker (29 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> If your properties are nice I would bet that you could charge the same rent with or without a washing machine provided.



Do keep it up!
Your lack of self awareness is most amusing.
Even after he has explained he is highly experienced, you still know better.
I am guessing you also have degree level knowledge of psychology and are familiar with Dunning Kruger effect?


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## Rorschach (29 Sep 2020)

lurker said:


> Do keep it up!
> Your lack of self awareness is most amusing.
> Even after he has explained he is highly experienced, you still know better.
> I am guessing you also have degree level knowledge of psychology and are familiar with Dunning Kruger effect?



That's the one where the noise goes funny when a racing car goes past isn't it?


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## lurker (29 Sep 2020)

Rorschach said:


> That's the one where the noise goes funny when a racing car goes past isn't it?


Nip downstairs and ask your mum.


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## R1chard (30 Sep 2020)

Back to Curries.. we recently had. Telly from them which went wrong almost immediately. Curries weren’t helpful at all and passed us on to Samsung who were frankly sh*te. Wrong parts, wrong attitude, delays etc. Apparently a shortage of electronics. Perhaps the country of manufacture has had a few problems, pi**ing off the whole world.


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## stuartpaul (30 Sep 2020)

R1chard said:


> ...........Perhaps the country of manufacture has had a few problems, pi**ing off the whole world.


Not aware South Korea have pi**ed off the whole world unless you know something I don't?


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## Richard_C (30 Sep 2020)

stuartpaul said:


> Not aware South Korea have pi**ed off the whole world unless you know something I don't?



Indeed, unless they have made us all jealous by managing Covid and their economy much better than most countries. Their economic and technological growth since the 1953 armistice has been remarkable.


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