# Cherry Table WIP



## woodbloke (8 Feb 2009)

This rather pleasant board of air dried English Cherry (none of your 'murrican stuff :wink:: 







was roughly converted and left for a couple of months so that after a bit of skimming with the LV LA jack I had a much smaller pile of sticks: 






There's going to be four inlaid panels with something burry and round the outside of the burr will be a line in ebony: 






The four bits nearest the camera are the bits going to be inlaid, but first of all they had to be shot in: 






after which all the m/t's had to be marked out...this shot just shows all the legs cramped together at the start: 






This project is going to be quite complicated :wink: :roll: to put together as there will be eight legs, eight rails and five panels, plus sixteen 'birds mouth' tenons (with 6mm ply inserts) so there'll be lots of 'shave and rasp work. I've just finished marking out all the mortises so it's tenons after that - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (8 Feb 2009)

Look forward to seeing this one progress, Rob. Sounds like there might be a few challenges :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul

PS Nice plane.....


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## Lord Nibbo (8 Feb 2009)

Nice start Rob. Are you left handed?


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## shim20 (8 Feb 2009)

cool, looking good, look forward to seeing progress


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## woodbloke (8 Feb 2009)

Lord Nibbo":18x1zqu9 said:


> Nice start Rob. Are you left handed?


 :-s :? - Rob


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## Mr Ed (8 Feb 2009)

Looks like a cracking piece of Cherry Rob. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.

Cheers, Ed


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## Escudo (8 Feb 2009)

Good luck with this project Rob. I plan to keep an eye on your progress, quite refreshing that it is not a tool cabinet. :wink: 

Cheers, Tony.


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## joiner_sim (8 Feb 2009)

It looks like you're off to a great start, can't wait to see what methods are used and the final product of all your hard work will look like!


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## StarGazer (9 Feb 2009)

Rob,

Please excuse the silly questions from a beginner, so often I see a rough plank being converted to a nice neat pile of rough sized parts but no idea of sizes? Can you tell us the size and thickness of the original piece of cherry and how much waste to give the complete stack of parts?

Thanks

IanL


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## woodbloke (9 Feb 2009)

StarGazer":a5d3fflp said:


> Rob,
> 
> Please excuse the silly questions from a beginner, so often I see a rough plank being converted to a nice neat pile of rough sized parts but no idea of sizes? Can you tell us the size and thickness of the original piece of cherry and how much waste to give the complete stack of parts?
> 
> ...


As you can see from the first pic, the board's just under 2m high, about 500mm wide at the widest point and 50mm thick. Although it looks quite impressive, there was a lot of waste on it because the other side was full of quite deep surface checks and soft bits of sap  , so I had to be pretty careful how it was converted. I did it initially by using a hand held c/s to cut it into rough lumps before it was planed on the p/t, so I guess there was probably 30-40% waste on it - Rob


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## OPJ (9 Feb 2009)

woodbloke":td16ux0l said:


> There's going to be four inlaid panels with something burry and round the outside of the burr will be a line in ebony:



Thanks, Rob. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who spends time putting on the face and edge marks and then decides to change his mind!  :wink: 

Nice lump of cherry, by the way. Good to see of the English stuff being used, there isn't always much around.


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## StarGazer (9 Feb 2009)

Thanks Rob, that helps me to put a context on buying wood.


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## woodbloke (15 Mar 2009)

Last week I posted some pics of this coffee table project which probably meant nothing to anyone 'cept me so I deleted them. However I've done a bit more and have got one of the end frame assemblies together as a dry-run: 






The depression in the middle of the wide end panel will be filled with a nice bit of burr stuff and then an ebony line is going round the outside' 

The next shot shows: 






one of the frames together and there'll be an identical pair of frames fitting in the halving joints to form a cross shape. There'll be lots of shaping to do, you can just make out the cross hatching in biro on the inside of one of the end frames. In addition the legs will also be flared from the top down so that the panel and legs will eventually be flush. Horns will be removed so it'll sit flat on the floor - Rob


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## shim20 (15 Mar 2009)

thats some really nice cherry you got there, looking good.


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## Paul Chapman (15 Mar 2009)

Ah, it's starting to make sense now  Looking good, Rob.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (13 Apr 2009)

Haven't shown you much of what's been going on with this table, but here's an update. After a very pleasant day at Yandles I came away with nice lump of burr elm which was duly sliced up an stuck into the recesses on the end frames. This pic shows a trial fit with small bits of 6mm ply for the loose tongues...the end frame is then shot in tight against the mitres: 






so that by this morning I had four of them glued up: 






I've been working on one of them all day and have got this far: 






As you can see, the corners have been roughly cut (scribing gouge) and then rasped to shape, arrises are still sharp so there's still loads of shaping to do. There's going to be an ebony line round the elm burr...you can see the groove. 

What makes it ever so slightly more complicated is that the side profile: 






is slightly curved so the rails had to be taken down level with the burr elm...it's taken me all day to get this far on just this panel. English Cherry though is a right pita...it's the last time I'll use it (maybe this board was kilned :duno but there's parts of it that cut like coarse pine. The only thing it does do in plane well, apart from that I'd keep clear :x Onwards and upwards... - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (13 Apr 2009)

Those burr elm panels look lovely, Rob. Should look nice when you have the ebony lines fitted.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## OPJ (13 Apr 2009)

Love the look of those panels, Rob. I've heard elm can have a mind of it's own at times - I hope those burr panels remain flat for you! :wink:


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## woodbloke (13 Apr 2009)

OPJ":zdnhzwsy said:


> Love the look of those panels, Rob. I've heard elm can have a mind of it's own at times - I hope those burr panels remain flat for you! :wink:


The actual burr is 2mm thick and has been glued in the AirPress to the wide cherry rail which is itself 18mm thick...so the elm's going nowhere  - Rob


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## RogerM (13 Apr 2009)

Don't you just love these threads that show a quality piece coming together. This looks like another heirloom in the making Rob. Many thanks for the detailed account and all the WIP pics. Greatly appreciated. I'm waiting for the next batch of pics with eager anticipation.


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## paulm (13 Apr 2009)

Me too Roger, love that elm Rob, keep the pics coming....

Cheers, Paul


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## woodbloke (13 Apr 2009)

I have to admit that elm is one of my favourite timbers...next cabinet is going to be in the stuff. Might even incorporate some of that burr into it? :duno: I also have a notion to do a casket aka Ingham style with burr elm panels and ebony lines dividing each panel up. I haven't thought it through yet but if you have RI's book there's a pic of the casket at the back...fabulous - Rob


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## Ironballs (13 Apr 2009)

That's looking very good Rob, some great design touches in there. I've used a bit of English cherry and it's fair to say that it likes to move


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## frugal (14 Apr 2009)

woodbloke":1ho8ts6x said:


> OPJ":1ho8ts6x said:
> 
> 
> > Love the look of those panels, Rob. I've heard elm can have a mind of it's own at times - I hope those burr panels remain flat for you! :wink:
> ...



Wow, I am impressed that you managed to cut those burr panels at that size down to just 2mm without the whole thing falling apart. I have a hard enough time cutting pieces that are only 3" high when I cut veneers.


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## ByronBlack (14 Apr 2009)

Loving the design and craftsmanship on this one, I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of the progress, it's great seeing high-end stuff like this. Good work Rob


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## woodbloke (14 Apr 2009)

frugal":1tfys5z9 said:


> Wow, I am impressed that you managed to cut those burr panels at that size down to just 2mm without the whole thing falling apart. I have a hard enough time cutting pieces that are only 3" high when I cut veneers.



The trick is to first prepare the material so that you have one side and edge dead flat and square, I used the surface table on the p/t for this. Make sure also that you have the tallest fence you can make to go under the bandsaw guides...and finally, stick a brand new blade (as wide as poss) in the machine. Don't even _think_ about cutting veneers with a blade that's even a tiny bit used (like I did, 'cos I thought it was OK  ) It's also advisable to re-machine one surface prior to the next cut - Rob


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## PaulO (14 Apr 2009)

woodbloke":1sg0p9rn said:


> The actual burr is 2mm thick and has been glued in the AirPress to the wide cherry rail which is itself 18mm thick...so the elm's going nowhere  - Rob



Can you explain how the ground work for the burr (18mm cherry rail) is joined to the legs / rails ? Does it float between the two rails? How is it allowed to contract without a gap opening around the ebony banding? It looks as though expansion would be applying considerable force to the legs as the combination of the burr and banding would constrain any float? 

You mention 6mm ply loose tongues in the text, but I can't see them in the photo.


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## woodbloke (14 Apr 2009)

PaulO":240wea8f said:


> Can you explain how the ground work for the burr (18mm cherry rail) is joined to the legs / rails ? Does it float between the two rails? How is it allowed to contract without a gap opening around the ebony banding? It looks as though expansion would be applying considerable force to the legs as the combination of the burr and banding would constrain any float?
> 
> You mention 6mm ply loose tongues in the text, but I can't see them in the photo.


I hope the following pic shows the wide rail in a bit more detail:







You can see the mitres on each end which correspond to mitres in the legs (part of the 'birds mouth' tenon) At this stage the long groove has just been routed out in the end grain with a matching groove in the leg, which will fit a long 6mm ply tongue. The two arrows on the masking tape show the 'start' and 'stop' positions I used when routing the groove.
I used small pieces of 6mm ply just to check that the mitres were going to pull up...you can see them in the first pic at the top of the screen. In the pic the recess for the elm burr hasn't yet been created. Also any expansion of the cherry rail will be across the grain so the joint between the rail and leg ought not to open - Rob


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## MikeG. (14 Apr 2009)

Rob,

this is looking really promising........

.........you should have saved it for the upcoming competition!!

I hope this is your own design......and I hope this has an equally nice table-top in your plans.

I'm watching this with interest.

Mike


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## PaulO (15 Apr 2009)

woodbloke":2f3w2jx6 said:


> Also any expansion of the cherry rail will be across the grain so the joint between the rail and leg ought not to open - Rob



Ah, OK. So any contraction in the rail will open up the mitre with the legs? I think I might have applied the burr to an MDF substrate lipped with cherry for the mitre/exposed faces. That way you are also avoiding strain on the veneer from expansion/contraction. I presume the back of the panel receives the same burr veneer to keep it balanced?

I guess if the cherry has been dried over a sufficiently long period, and is at centrally heated house RH it shouldn't be a problem.


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## woodbloke (15 Apr 2009)

PaulO":2gj4g1xu said:


> Ah, OK. So any contraction in the rail will open up the mitre with the legs? I think I might have applied the burr to an MDF substrate lipped with cherry for the mitre/exposed faces. That way you are also avoiding strain on the veneer from expansion/contraction. I presume the back of the panel receives the same burr veneer to keep it balanced?
> 
> I guess if the cherry has been dried over a sufficiently long period, and is at centrally heated house RH it shouldn't be a problem.



There might be some movement across the wide rail, but the cherry is pretty dry so I'm hoping that it will be stable...it was in the 'shop conditioning for over two months after it had been converted. Any shrinkage will also have to work _against_ the loose ply insert glued into the long slot. The ply insert measures 180x35mm which is a very big gluing area for such a small rail, so I'm hopeful that all will be well - Rob


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## woodbloke (25 May 2009)

Having been testing chisels and making a Frame Saw (pics in a while :wink: ) it's back to the Cherry Table. This pic shows one of the pair of frames being glued this morning: 






and having spent the rest of the day shooting it in (flushing off joints and chisling the internal corners with a scribing gouge) I managed to get the rest of together as a dry run: 






with the fossil top in place. There'll be another burr elm inlaid panel on the lower section of the frame...I've just laid it there so you can see the effect. Lots of shaping and scraping yet to do...- Rob


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## Paul Chapman (25 May 2009)

That burr elm and stringing looks very nice, Rob.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## newt (26 May 2009)

A unique piece Rob, I do like the contrast between the Elm and cherry.


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## CroppyBoy1798 (26 May 2009)

Thats a beautiful piece!!  Really nice work, cant wait to see it finished.


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## woodbloke (26 May 2009)

I did an interesting mod to it this morning: 






...put the whole bloody thing through the bandsaw :evil: It was ill conceived and I couldn't get on with the English Cherry, every time I tried to put a joint apart the stuff broke (at least six times!!)...you can see in the pic that a couple of the rails were supported by big lumps of steel. 
Sometimes a Bloke's gota do what a Bloke's gota do :lol: 
It will be re-done at some point later on, once I've had a rethink on the design, which again was over complicated. Simple is always good and hindsight is a glorious thing...- Rob


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## Paul Chapman (26 May 2009)

:shock: :shock: :shock:


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## head clansman (26 May 2009)

hi rob 


#-o did you use one of these , (hammer) feel better now , best you go and have some of these , ccasion5: but leave the car at home first ccasion5: .hc


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## Karl (26 May 2009)

Christ Rob, that's a bit drastic..... 

Guess it won't be appearing in F&C after all... :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


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## Corset (26 May 2009)

That is very a very sad sight. I detect a little bit of the rage monster may have been released there. :evil: 
I have some english cherry that I picked up off ebay (about a trees worth) and when I planed it up in preparation for a project it seemed a little wild to say the least so i can see where you were coming from. 
Don't give up! give it a second go! you can't let this wood stuff beat you
Owen


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## woodbloke (26 May 2009)

Karl":2ga0b2eb said:


> Christ Rob, that's a bit drastic.....
> 
> Guess it won't be appearing in F&C after all... :lol:
> 
> ...


Karl - I kid you not...apart from the lumps of steel, some of the rails were held together with 20mm screws where they'd broken. It might also have been that they were slightly short grained but even so, the slightest bit of undue strain and the stuff just snapped. I also found that it was hopelessly inconsistent (it might have been a kilned board as well)...some parts of it you could plane and cut superbly, take another piece off the same original board and it cut like the coarsest bit of pine out of one of the 'sheds. From my experience, anything done in cherry from now on will be in the 'murrican stuff which seems to me to be much better. 
I made the decision this morning that I'd be ashamed for this to go into F&C as it was developing into one almighty cock up, so I told SWIMBO over a brew that I was getting very frustrated and a bit fed up (to say the least) with it and she was quite happy for me to start again later on - Rob


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## billw (26 May 2009)

I like the design - what timber would you choose next time?


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## Karl (26 May 2009)

Rob - did you salvage the Burr Elm panels????

Cheers

Karl


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## CroppyBoy1798 (26 May 2009)

Emm.....wow! :shock: :shock: You dont do things by half do you?!  Any other fella would pineapple the thing into the corner never to bo looke at again, but this 'putting it through the bandsaw' is a new one on me, bet it felt good though! :lol:


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## newt (26 May 2009)

Rob, shame I know what you mean about screws you showed me some when I came over last. I guess you are not a fan of english cherry :evil: the stuff from over the pond seems more durable, I think the bits from Waka was US stock. Did you recover the elm.


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## newt (26 May 2009)

Rob, probably a good thing I did not come around this afternoon asking how the cherry and elm project is doing. :shock:


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## woodbloke (26 May 2009)

newt":1t4dfdgs said:


> Did you recover the elm.


Pete - got lot's more off that nice lump I got at Yandles, so not too much wasted :wink: - Rob


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## Karl (26 May 2009)

I think we should add a new term to the Woodworking Glossary:

"Doin a Rob" 

:lol:

Cheers

Karl


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## Mr Ed (26 May 2009)

Rob

Its only by minute attention to every detail that you will achieve perfection.

Years ago when I was learning to fly, my instructor taught me that once you have set up for an approach and you find something is not just how you want it to be, throw it away and go around for another approach.

I think this principle can be applied here; I have done similar things in the past.

Ed


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## DaveL (26 May 2009)

Hi Rob,

Well if you were not happy with it so be it, we are only seeing it from a distance and its right in your face. I thought the woodwork looked good but did not like the top. :roll:


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## TheTiddles (26 May 2009)

I agree with your sentiments there Rob, I will post my tool cabinet when I've finished the handles and I'll share my "changes". One thing worse than a job finished is a job you don't like

Aidan


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## woodbloke (26 May 2009)

DaveL":1397xijy said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> ...but did not like the top. :roll:


Dave - but if your SWIMBO did, would you argue? 8-[ :lol: - Rob


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## DaveL (27 May 2009)

woodbloke":11qkqvpt said:


> DaveL":11qkqvpt said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Rob,
> ...


Oh nice top sir, got any more?


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## paulm (27 May 2009)

Blimey Rob, that's a bit of a shocker :shock: 

I like the fossil table top but wonder if would combine better with a simpler frame design to let it be the main feature as it were ?

Not that I know anything about making and designing though, except round spinney things :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## woodbloke (27 May 2009)

paulm":3m9ewk18 said:


> I like the fossil table top but wonder if would combine better with a simpler frame design to let it be the main feature as it were ?
> 
> Cheers, Paul


...which is my current line of thought at the moment - Rob


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## big soft moose (27 May 2009)

CroppyBoy1798":2x0e0yqn said:


> Any other fella would pineapple the thing into the corner never to bo looke at again, but this 'putting it through the bandsaw' is a new one on me, bet it felt good though! :lol:



hes a man after my own heart - i put a chainsaw through my laptop once , i kid you not.


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## head clansman (27 May 2009)

Hi


Rob shame that you didn't like it :? , but you did do the right thing , it has to feel right , in this case it clearly did not hence you latest pics , I liked the frame work styling especially the inlaid panels very much and was waiting to see what you had in mind for the lower shelfing it looked like it was shaping up very nicely and I was waiting to see the finished colours which looked like they were going to be wonderful especially the panels.

I'm sorry I did not like the top at all with that framework styling although it would look great elsewhere it look out of place with the frame styling now if the top styling were to match whatever you had planned for the lower shelfing i think you would be on to a winner . :wink: hc


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## maltrout512 (27 May 2009)

A man who cuts his own wood is warmed twice. :lol: Sorry to see your problem.


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## 2020 (27 May 2009)

EdSutton":3qvxer4r said:


> Looks like a cracking piece of Cherry Rob. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
> 
> Cheers, Ed



Looks like a prescient post that Ed made in Feb.,Bob
Well seasoned English Cherry makes fine kindling so don't think of it as a a complete waste. 

Dave


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## TrimTheKing (28 May 2009)

Hi Rob

Shame to see it in bits, I really liked the design, but it obviously wasn't working out from what you have said so you made the right decision.

On a different note, I am actually quietly pleased to see this happening to someone else...

I say that with all due respect, and only because it is refreshing for me as a beginner in this dark art to see that it's not just me who finds myself massively frustrated with things like this and it can happen to even the more experienced of us.

So for your honesty in showing us, I salute you


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## Chems (28 May 2009)

It was a good thread to read to see how you do things, but I didn't like the style of the table so I'm glad you chopped it up. Looking forward to your next project.


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## Mr Ed (28 May 2009)

2020":w9i0qhab said:


> EdSutton":w9i0qhab said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like a cracking piece of Cherry Rob. Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.
> ...



Unfortunately I can't claim that my choice of the word 'cracking' was based on any great foresight... :lol: 

Cheers, Ed


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## woodbloke (28 May 2009)

Chems":17ckccyo said:


> It was a good thread to read to see how you do things, but I didn't like the style of the table so I'm glad you chopped it up. Looking forward to your next project.


The style of the table was reasonable, but over complicated for what it was. I've got some sort of Alan Peters-ish idea in elm floating around 'up top' at the moment, with exposed jointing etc...nothing yet on paper - Rob


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## Escudo (28 May 2009)

Sorry to see that this project did not work out Rob.

Some good news to cheer you up I have made the prize for the competition as promised...(not wishing to let the cat out of the bag but it is in the ABW I snaffled from Yandles 8) .)

I have also finished my shooting board using your design for the wearing strip and very good it is to.

If I can get down to West Dean next week I will bring the prize along for your safe keeping.

Tony.


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## woodbloke (28 May 2009)

Escudo":30s9a4yn said:


> If I can get down to West Dean next week I will bring the prize along for your safe keeping.
> 
> Tony.


Tony, what's all this 'if'? :lol: ..look forward to seeing you and having a look at the prize :wink: :wink: - Rob


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