# Schwarz/Nicholson/Byron Workbench Build



## ByronBlack (5 Jun 2010)

Ok, so i've be extolling the virtues of The Schwarz lately after being thoroughly impressed with his excellent workbench book. 

I thought I should put some money where my mouth is, and build one of these suckers so I can show all the naysayers (theres only a few) what a great bench this is.

£205 later (should have have been £275, but the delivery guy got the price wrong, result!) I had 3 16ft 2x12 boards of PAR Southen Yellow Pine.

The bloke at the wood yard was supposed to have crosscut these to 8ft lengths, but seeing as he got the price wrong, I'm not complaining too much.

I've spent the last 5 hours hauling these stuff about and cutting all the components to rough size before putting into stick. My back is now officially f***ed and i'll be on the meds for probably the rest of the week - but I don't mind as the hard-work is done for now, and I'll let the wood cook in the workshop to reach equilibrium before I start the build proper.

The SYP is surprisingly dry. My workshop MC for seasoned wood is between 8-10% these came in betweenn 10 & 12% (edging towards 14% in the newly cut centres), so it shouldn't take too long for these bad boys to reach equilibrium, and hopefully shouldn't see too much warpage - the boards are surprisingly flat - and very very straight grained with just a few small knots.

They weigh a rubbish load. I weighed the boards (Yes, I am sad), all together this bench will weigh 504lbs !! Thats a quarter of a ton - over 36 stone, 228KG, and this is without the vice or the hardware! This puppy aint moving for no one!

So, enough with all the blabbering, here's the photos of the work so far:

The boards:






Cutting in half:





The CS wasn't deep enough to cut all the way through, so I finish of with my trusty (rusty) ryoba





Mmmm, nice clear straight grain boards:





I tried to sell this mitre saw three times, no one wanted it, its ugly, it smells, its noisy, but I'm glad I kept it, its a real workhorse





The Foreman telling me to move my buttocks and get on with the work





Homemade rail - ripping the boards (so that I have pieces for legs, rails etc).





I handsawed 32ft of this stuff as the CS wasn't deep enough and I didn't want to saw from the otherside, I have arms like popeye!





I should have bought a proper ripping saw, this is hardwork





Once all the ripping was done, I start to crosscut the legs, rails and supports to a tad oversize





The puny bandsaw (I shall call it Margaret) ripping the legs





504lbs of timber in stick.





Thats it for now, i'm off for a bath and painkillers, and an early night.


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## Matt_S (5 Jun 2010)

You've made more progress than me - in laws are down this weekend so no wood for me!

Good price for PAR SYP. I paid more but problem is that there really local and anyone else would have had delivery!

Hope the back's ok!


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## ByronBlack (5 Jun 2010)

Matt_S":1wjvvpyt said:


> You've made more progress than me - in laws are down this weekend so no wood for me!
> 
> Good price for PAR SYP. I paid more but problem is that there really local and anyone else would have had delivery!
> 
> Hope the back's ok!



The SYP should have been £75 + VAT per board, but for some reason they only charged me £205, not that I'm complaining. I doubt i'll get the same price next time though. I still need another 1.5 boards to make the lower shelf.


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## Chems (5 Jun 2010)

Looks great Bryon. Really looking forward to this one.


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## Crooked Tree (5 Jun 2010)

Is Southern Yellow Pine hard enough for the top ok or are you planning a sacrificial top surface?

I hope to get around to building a modest bench at some stage and envision beech worktop (no heavy machinery) on a pine base (cheaper).


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## ByronBlack (5 Jun 2010)

Crooked Tree":ypxynr3y said:


> Is Southern Yellow Pine hard enough for the top ok or are you planning a sacrificial top surface?
> 
> I hope to get around to building a modest bench at some stage and envision beech worktop (no heavy machinery) on a pine base (cheaper).



Its not that high on the Janka scale with a rating between 690 & 870 (although regular white pine is just 380) and beech is rated at 1300, but I see it as a boon, because if you drop your work or crash your work into it, I'd rather the dent be on the bench than the workpiece - also dents can be steamed out, planed off etc.. it's a bench, it's intended to be used, I have no worries about the SYP, also its a lot cheaper and easier to work than Beech (although, Id still prefer a beech top if I could afford it).


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## RussianRouter (5 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":305rtpco said:


> I handsawed 32ft of this stuff as the CS wasn't deep enough and I didn't want to saw from the otherside, I have arms like popeye!



Hmmm! would you have been able to cut it with the CS if you took the ripping board away and used a straight edge clamped to the stock you were cutting in the pic?

That CS has a max depth cut of 65mm hasn't it ? and your boards are 50mm


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## ByronBlack (5 Jun 2010)

RussianRouter":3vdvsc63 said:


> Hmmm! would you have been able to cut it with the CS if you took the ripping board away and used a straight edge clamped to the stock you were cutting in the pic?



Yes, the CS would have had enough depth without my ripping guide, however, I do not own a straightedge that would be suitable for the CS as annoyingly the motor overhangs the base by quite a lot, and it's not very high off the workpiece which means the straightedge would have to be about 10mm thick otherwise it would foul the motor - all I had that was suitable was my guide, even some of the longer lengths of timber I had were either too bendy or too thick.

It only left approx 10mm so it really wasn't that bad finishing it by hand, just a bit tedious.


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## RussianRouter (6 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":2s87ifod said:


> It only left approx 10mm so it really wasn't that bad finishing it by hand, just a bit tedious.



Floor laminate is the best alternative for a ripping board as it takes less depth off the CS.


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## ByronBlack (6 Jun 2010)

RussianRouter":18v7e5tw said:


> ByronBlack":18v7e5tw said:
> 
> 
> > It only left approx 10mm so it really wasn't that bad finishing it by hand, just a bit tedious.
> ...



Aye, I chucked two rooms worth away a few weeks back before I realised this! DOH!


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## RussianRouter (6 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":3hmveck5 said:


> Aye, I chucked two rooms worth away a few weeks back before I realised this! DOH!



Well your intentions on dumping it was a sound piece of thinking...but you failed to realise to keep a few pieces in storage for router jigs and straight edge ripping boards.


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## Crooked Tree (6 Jun 2010)

Ah. Sounds like SYP is rather tougher than I had imagined then. The word pine brought to mind being able to push dents with a finger nail, but I think that must be the pine which you quote with a figure of 300 odd.

Thanks.


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## OPJ (6 Jun 2010)

Some circular saws not have a 'channel' running the length of the base (usually near the left-hand edge) which allows them to run over a guide on certain jigs, which prevents the saw from wondering. This as opposed to having a raised edge against which the edge of the base must reference. You've still got to resolve the clamping issue but, it does mean the motor shouldn't foul the guide, even on full depth of cut.

Just like on the Festool saws:






I think they're held in place by some kind of rubber material? I've tried anti-slip tape (abrasive-type stuff), in the past, but it's not as good. I'd think you'd still need clamps if you're looking to cut a large, wide board that's all cupped and distorted, though.

If that isn't possible on your model then, it looks as though the channel is attached to this Bosch saw as an accessory (you could probably do something similar):


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## ByronBlack (6 Jun 2010)

Olly - You make some good pints, my CS base is flat with no channel, its quite a basic model, I had considered screwing on a piece of aluminium bar and having that run in a channel in some thinner material.


However, with the plans I have, I may end up going back to the Festool or maybe an aftermarket eureka zone rail.


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## RussianRouter (6 Jun 2010)

[/quote]

I see that guy has a problem of wondering where he should cut...judging by the marks on the edge and side of the door.

Why do some blokes do that when its the pencil line we're concerned about?

Sorry Byron,back tothe topic in hand.


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## ByronBlack (6 Jun 2010)

RussianRouter":2g6dljhi said:


>



I see that guy has a problem of wondering where he should cut...judging by the marks on the edge and side of the door.

Why do some blokes do that when its the pencil line we're concerned about?

Sorry Byron,back tothe topic in hand.

[/quote]

More to the point, Id hate to see the decor of the house that door is going in - blue and green? Shocking


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## frugal (6 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":2tuuxozd said:


> More to the point, Id hate to see the decor of the house that door is going in - blue and green? Shocking



My wife bought her house cheap because the previous occupiers had terrible taste: Turquoise and black bathroom; pillar box red bedroom with navy blue ceiling; orange an yellow dining room; mauve and pink bedroom... No one else was able to look past the colour scheme to see the original 1920s doors and original mouldings. We spent the first couple of months with large quantities of white emulsion paint


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## ByronBlack (6 Jun 2010)

frugal":1rmmrwwp said:


> ByronBlack":1rmmrwwp said:
> 
> 
> > More to the point, Id hate to see the decor of the house that door is going in - blue and green? Shocking
> ...



Ditto - our previous owners had a fetish for pink and purple squares, it was everywhere, 4 years in we are just finishing.


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Another really long day - I finished up at 11.45pm tonight after a much longer fit and glue-up than anticipated. My tenons were a little 'fat' and needed a fair bit of fettling to fit - that will teach me to be over-cautious when routing the tenons.

So the job today was to square up all the leg and rail pieces, cut the tenons and the mortices and glue-up. Here's the pics:

Using my new toy + rail to cut the tenons (worked really well)















The top of the leg has a through mortice, the bottom is blind mortice. I need to trim this flush





Leg assemblies glued-up and will stay in clamps overnight. Tomorrow morning I'll pierce the M&T's with some dowels - they were too tight a fit to drawbore.










Tomorrow will see the aprons going on and the tops planed, but they will remain in stick until next weekend at the earliest. They are almost at equilibrium, but are just a couple of percentage points away for now.


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## Chems (14 Jun 2010)

Looking really good, your making quick progress.

Beware those sash clamps, mine just fell apart, very light pressure is all they are good for.


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Chems":302wp9mv said:


> Looking really good, your making quick progress.
> 
> Beware those sash clamps, mine just fell apart, very light pressure is all they are good for.



Thats what I thought - but you should have seen the amount of pressure I put on those bad boys to close the joints, it was a very tight fit, my wrist/arm would give-up before those clamps, they have handled everything that I've thrown at them, I think I got a good batch though as a couple have broken off at the head, but my core set are rock solid.


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## woodbloke (14 Jun 2010)

Looking good so far BB. What's that Yellow Pine like to work with? Yandles have usually got a vast knot free selection of the stuff and I've been tempted on occasion to buy a lump - Rob


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

woodbloke":39l0qztm said:


> Looking good so far BB. What's that Yellow Pine like to work with? Yandles have usually got a vast knot free selection of the stuff and I've been tempted on occasion to buy a lump - Rob



The stuff I've got is really nice to work with so far. I bought it PAR and was expecting it to twist/warp more than it has while drying. The MC content was only about 4% above my shop.

There also wasn't much tension in the boards It was relatively easy to rip/crosscut to size with no surprises. The smaller pieces that would be my legs and rails were planed within a few days and left in stick - again, I was expecting them to move a bit before I assembled them, but they were perfect.

Working it is easy, it planes exceptionally well and has a nice glossy finish. There's not many knots in the timber, just a handful of smaller ones where they wont be seen. Routing is also very easy.

It's a lovely wood to use - a lot of the boards are straight grained and quite attractive, its more a light brown than yellow which is nice, I imagine that with age its going to look great.

Not sure if I would use it for furniture, I may make a tool-chest with it, but for fine furntiure for the home, it might be a bit 'busy'.


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## woodbloke (14 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":2pmtp1cp said:


> Not sure if I would use it for furniture, I may make a tool-chest with it, but for fine furntiure for the home, it might be a bit 'busy'.



BB - thanks for that, it's reinforced my own view of what appears to be one of the better pines. I think it _could_ be used for a piece of furniture, but the style would have to be chosen carefully...I reckon something chunkable like a low coffee table might suit it well - Rob


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## Chems (14 Jun 2010)

Bryon, I'm interested to know what swayed you to the English bench rather than the Roubo, was it material costs?


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Chems":8so09xt8 said:


> Bryon, I'm interested to know what swayed you to the English bench rather than the Roubo, was it material costs?


 
Partly yes - although, given I've since spent more cash on tools which I wasn't planning on, I could have theoretically afforded it.

The other reason was I wanted the front apron. I have a number of projects on the tuit list that will require the use of the apron - I realise I could have used a sliding deadman on the roubo, but I like the extra solidity afforded by the apron. (I have a solution planned that will still allow me to use clamps on the worktop from the front - which is often remarked as the main downside to an apron).

And lastly - after doing the face-to-face glue-up on my previous beech bench, i didn't fancy doing it again with timbers twice as long (my old bench was only 4ft long). I don't own a P/T so dimensioning and planing all that stock for the top would have driven me mad.

The most important choice of course was that the Roubo is french! I just couldn't bring myself to consider building a french bench


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## Chems (14 Jun 2010)

Yes the lack of apron clamping would put me off the Nicolson. I want to build a beech roubo, but I'm just never going to get the time!


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Another update today:

Pics:

I'm glad I made some sawhorses before the workbench build, they are proving quite useful. Here i'm planing the edges square






Smoothing the areas that will be glued to the legs





The top rail didn't foul the trimming after-all





Rear apron glued on to the leg assemblies





Just for fun, I clamped the front apron to see what it would look like, its fudging big!!





During the week, I'll be shaping the front apron, drilling the holdfast holes and planing the areas where it meets the legs. I'll also drill the mortice for the leg-vice guide board.


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## neilc (14 Jun 2010)

Looking good BB, I'm enjoying this thread.
Neil


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## ByronBlack (16 Jun 2010)

Todays update:

My front apron was about 10-15mm higher than the rear apron which would cause a real problem with the top, so I had to trim and joint this edge. As I don't have a straight edge long enough to use my circular saw because it requires a very low piece to avoid fouling the motor, I decided to put my new router into service again - using a fairly straight decking board as a guide, I spent a fair amount of time routing off the excess material and prepared the edge for jointing:





After the routing, I finished the edge joint with a No.7





Trimming the excess leg tops with my trusty rusty ryoba (most versatile saw in my kit)





I Wanted to get an idea of how it looks with the top





Relieved the square edge with a bevel cut - sawed in situ with the ryoba again





End of todays work:


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## Chems (16 Jun 2010)

Looking great!


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## Sawdust (16 Jun 2010)

Your bench is looking great Byron - good thread this I'm really enjoying it. I might be pinching your design.

Cheers
Mike


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## Benchwayze (17 Jun 2010)

Hi Byron, 

Things are looking great on this one. 
Your cross-cutting track...

Obviously it fits the DeWalt Router so it should fit my Elu. 

A few quick questions if I may?

What make is it please? 

I assume these tracks can be used with a circular saw, so how does the saw locate in the grooves? 

Or do you just run the sawplate up against the edge? 

Cheers
John


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## Gary (17 Jun 2010)

John 

That's the Dewalt rail with a router attachment.

The saw sits on the rail same as the Festool.

Have a look here.


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## Benchwayze (17 Jun 2010)

Much obliged Gary...
So one has to buy the saw too! 
Ouch! 

I already have three circular saws! With the amount of cross-cutting I do, I could just get by with a shopmade MDF straight edge. 

I have a Trend 'clamp'n guide, but the plastic lever clamps are pathetic. They just won't hold and it's a bit disconcerting when it slips and the saw wants to kick-back! 
Thanks for the info all the same.

John


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## woodbloke (17 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":2ankvj90 said:


> I already have three circular saws! With the amount of cross-cutting I do, I could just get by with a shopmade MDF straight edge.
> 
> John


Same here John...I just cramp a bit of mdf to the job and run the saw along it. Not super accurate, but accurate enough for my needs with a hand held cs - Rob


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## Benchwayze (17 Jun 2010)

Indeed Rob, 

I have been thinking about a short sash cramp, suitably adapted, and a piece of ply, of the right dimensions, to locate the saw for accuracy. 

Genereally my local yard cut panels on their dimensioning saw, if I buy a whole sheet and supply a rough drawing! 

So usually I manage. 

I'll explain my thinking on the 'sash-cramp' idea, when I see you next month, or if I can fit in the adaptation, I'll do WIP.

Regards

John


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## ByronBlack (19 Jun 2010)

Here's my update from today:

Schwarz didn't have any transverse supports attached to the aprons, he screwed his directly to the top, I thought I would add to the torsion box design and give some more support by rebating in some 2x4 supports, these will then have some 3x1 glued to their face to provide a support area to put in some screws (with oval screw clearance holes to account for wood movement) which will hold the top flat - it will be glued to the first 6 inches of the apron and supports.

I also finished up shaping the corners of the aprons, and finally glued on the front apron of drilling the dog holes.

Pics:
Supports added to the leg rail:





Front Apron glued on:





Notched transverse supports placed into position - and their rebates marked on the aprons















Nearly broke my back getting the bench up onto the sawhorses





I sawed by hand the shoulders,routed out the excess and finally, I squared them up with a chisel





Test fit is good





Glued and clamped up - along with the front apron, these will be left over night, tomorrow I face the daunting task of jointing and flattening the tops.






I've spent approx 28 hours so far


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## Mike.C (19 Jun 2010)

Wow Colin that is some meaty, well made, and if it is going to turn out like the one in your Avatar, handsome bench. I am quite confident when I say that it looks like it will out last your woodworking life.

I look forward to the end result.

Cheers

Mike


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## paulm (19 Jun 2010)

Looking good Colin.

Were the front and back aprons glued and screwed or just glued ? Think you mention just gluing but that wouldn't give the strength needed by itself would it ?

Cheers, Paul


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## ByronBlack (19 Jun 2010)

paulm":1ls0djpf said:


> Looking good Colin.
> 
> Were the front and back aprons glued and screwed or just glued ? Think you mention just gluing but that wouldn't give the strength needed by itself would it ?
> 
> Cheers, Paul



Hi Paul,

They will be screwed as well, I just haven't got round to it at the moment as I didn't have the right screws. I probably should have added them while they were gluing up, but I failed to plan for this. Don't think it'll be a big problem though.

Thanks for the kind words Mike, its actually considerably chunkier than the plans in the schwarz book. He only used 1.25" thick stock, this lot is exactly 2" so it has plenty of weight, and I daresay it will outlast me when its finished.


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## TEO (20 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":yqbrwnyo said:


> Todays update:
> 
> My front apron was about 10-15mm higher than the rear apron which would cause a real problem with the top, so I had to trim and joint this edge. As I don't have a straight edge long enough to use my circular saw because it requires a very low piece to avoid fouling the motor, I decided to put my new router into service again - using a fairly straight decking board as a guide, I spent a fair amount of time routing off the excess material and prepared the edge for jointing:
> 
> ...




If you're looking for a straigh edge it's worth looking at ali kick plates from Howdens, I was lucky and salvaged one with a bit of a bent end (since removed) from their skip and it works beautifully.
In fact it's so good that if I needed to I'd buy a kick plate just as a straight edge.
HTH,
T


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## Benchwayze (20 Jun 2010)

Byron, 

This is looking outstanding. I agree with Mike. This one is going to be the last bench you'll ever need.

I'm hoping my 'French' version will turn out as nice as this. I never was so impatient to get started and I keep looking at my stack of SYP saying, 'Dry, dry, dry!'  

Regards
John


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## frugal (20 Jun 2010)

I love this style workbench, my only problem is that it takes up a valuable 8' of workshop and I need to come up with a solution that includes lots of storage as well if I ever get around to building my own


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## ByronBlack (20 Jun 2010)

frugal":2e53ap22 said:


> I love this style workbench, my only problem is that it takes up a valuable 8' of workshop and I need to come up with a solution that includes lots of storage as well if I ever get around to building my own



You don't have to make it 8', you can make it any length you like.. you can also use the underneath section for drawers/cupboards as long as you leave enough clearance for dogs and holdfasts.


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## TEO (20 Jun 2010)

Sorry, forgot to say how much I like the look of your build, it's gonna be great.
T


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## ByronBlack (20 Jun 2010)

TEO":18hipe4b said:


> Sorry, forgot to say how much I like the look of your build, it's gonna be great.
> T



Thanks Teo - I'll keep an eye out for the kick plates, a long straight edge would be very useful.


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## adzeman (21 Jun 2010)

Just catching up with work in progress been off for a week. Your bench is looking great


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## Acanthus (22 Jul 2010)

Byron, just wanted to say how impressed I am with your build, this going to be a very serious item - so substantial that it is approaching the 'air raid shelter' category. 
I may be inspired to attempt something like this myself. Can you post the reference to the original design please. 
Cheers 
David


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## Vormulac (23 Jul 2010)

I'm really enjoying this thread. I just got my workshop back into usable form last week after a couple of years as a dumping ground but one thing I don't have is a bench and I don't really think I have room for one, so there is plenty of vicarious enjoyment being had watching your build, BB.


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## OPJ (23 Jul 2010)

Acanthus":mj933p2a said:


> Can you post the reference to the original design please.



I think I'm right in saying that the original inspiration came from Chris Schwarz's Workbenches book.


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## Benchwayze (23 Jul 2010)

Vormulac":151u3hpi said:


> I'm really enjoying this thread. I just got my workshop back into usable form last week after a couple of years as a dumping ground but one thing I don't have is a bench and I don't really think I have room for one, so there is plenty of vicarious enjoyment being had watching your build, BB.



Vormulac;

The bench I shall be making is based on the design in the book Olly mentioned. I have gone a few steps further in the design, by deciding to tenon the legs directly through the solid top; plus a dovetailed halving joint on the front face so everything is flush. 

the original design is between 6 and 8 feet long, but there is nothing to stop anyone from making a bench long enough to fit into whatever space is available. Mine will be at the most 6 feet long, but probably nearer 5 feet, just to give room for a tail-vice. 

So if you can fit one in, make it to suit! 

regards
John


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## Anonymous (16 Nov 2010)

What's the latest on this bench build?

Is it finished?

Can we have some pictures?


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## Benchwayze (16 Nov 2010)

Chippy, 

If you're referring to my bench, then it's under construction, and pics are being taken as I progress. I am aiming to post the lot in one go, with the hope I can produce some text as well, reference the order of work.

That being the way I work normally for magazine articles. When I used to do them that is! 

The bench is being made in Southern Yellow Pine throughout, unless I run out of stock, or make a 'foxes paw'. In which case I will be adding some Douglas Fir to the construction.

Regards
John


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