# Sunday Times Christmas Crossword



## Steve Maskery (29 Dec 2007)

Is anyone else doing this? Don't tell me, you all finished it by Christmas Eve. I have just a couple left and I'm stumped.
See you in the morning.
S


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## motownmartin (29 Dec 2007)

Steve Maskery":1dlp8qua said:


> Is anyone else doing this? Don't tell me, you all finished it by Christmas Eve. I have just a couple left and I'm stumped.
> See you in the morning.
> S


 Not got it Steve, how about giving us a clue, not as though i'll be able to solve it :?


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## Steve Maskery (30 Dec 2007)

motownmartin":27s7a96o said:


> how about giving us a clue, ?



Yes it would help wouldn't it?

10D. Pig is said to fraternise with a snake (7). H_G_O_E

18A. Tank top has Gaelic words in it, to be precise (5). T_R_E

37D. Range that may be boxed (7). C_M_A_S

45D. Plump bird or just goose-foot? (3,3) __T,_E_ 

S


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## Smudger (30 Dec 2007)

37D - COMPASS?
45D - FAT HEN?


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## Smudger (30 Dec 2007)

18A - TERSE


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2007)

Steve

I'll let you into a secret. There is no correlation at all between half the clues and their answers. They just make 'em up.

For instance, Magistrate took risk with execution - shabby (3-5)

Answer - Dog-eared. Now dog-eared = shabby. Maybe magistrate is a doge (as in doge of venice but the doge wasn't really a magistrate). Ahah...they then take the a from magistrate, the r from risk, the e comes from execution and the d??? Well, that's obvious...D is the letter before E.

I told you, they make 'em up.

Oh yes...do you want to know the answer to C_M_A_S ?


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2007)

Oh..someones given the game away.

The other answer is TERSE

EDIT: Dammit..beaten again


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## Smudger (30 Dec 2007)

Ummm - he asked!

Not sure of the other one, although it probably begins HOG


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## motownmartin (30 Dec 2007)

Smudger":mj3kjvrh said:


> Ummm - he asked!
> 
> Not sure of the other one, although it probably begins HOG



Its probably Hognose (Snake)


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## Smudger (30 Dec 2007)

Ah! I saw the word but didn't know what it meant!


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## Steve Maskery (30 Dec 2007)

Gosh!

OK, but I need some explanation. I get the Terse (tank top is the first letter of Tank, followed by Erse, another name for any Gaelic language, for any spectators to this thread out there!)

What has compass got to do with a box?

What has a hen got to do with a goose-foot? I did get the Fat bit, but I don't follow the rest.

How does Nose equate with fraternise?

S


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2007)

Draughtsman set was usually boxed. Or dictionary definition is 'boundary circumference....or a circumscribed space...which is what a box is.

Anyway..as I said..they make them up.

Now please can anyone explain 'dog-eared'. That one was in the daily Times.

Steve - here is goose-foot and fat-hen

http://www.dgsgardening.btinternet.co.uk/fathen.htm


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## Smudger (30 Dec 2007)

Compass = range
to box the compass = take readings from all around

Fat Hen is a plant also known as goose foot.

Fraternise = add words together in a clue.

dog-eared = to turn over the corner of the page of a book as a place marker. Looks a bit like a dog's ear, and when done continually makes the book look scruffy, hence 'dog-eared'.


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2007)

Hi Dick

I understand the reference to 'shabby' but can't see how 

_Magistrate took risk with execution_ works out to dog-eared


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## Steve Maskery (30 Dec 2007)

Smudger":1zkh6qzk said:


> Fat Hen is a plant also known as goose foot.


 =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 




Smudger":1zkh6qzk said:


> Fraternise = add words together in a clue.



Ah! But no! _Said_ to fraternise, Nose sounds like Knows, and here Knows is being used as a synonym for Fraternise, although strictly speaking it should be Know or Fraternises.

I still think the Compass one is very contorted. But now as bad as yours, Roger! Perhaps the reference to risk is Dare, which, if executed (ie anagram) becomes ared?

Thank you all, that was fun, I can start on today's now!

Cheers
Steve


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## Rich (3 Jan 2008)

I try to complete the times every day, don't very often succeed but find it very relaxing, however, IMHO the best clue Iv'e ever seen came from the daily express a good few years ago;

G.E.G. (9, 3,)

PS, Have any of you tried the small crossie in the telegraph, the answers to the first 2 clues across always make a phrase or saying.
Regards,Rich.


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## Steve Maskery (3 Jan 2008)

Scrambled Egg.
Very good!
S


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

How about this one then?

A hundred cases of self-gratification maybe followed by horrible sounding French lubrication results in many investigations (5,5)


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## Steve Maskery (4 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":30ji3r7e said:


> A hundred cases of self-gratification maybe followed by horrible sounding French lubrication results in many investigations (5,5)



Hmm. Something Wheel, presumably?


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

Steve Maskery":3ewn89d3 said:


> Roger Sinden":3ewn89d3 said:
> 
> 
> > A hundred cases of self-gratification maybe followed by horrible sounding French lubrication results in many investigations (5,5)
> ...



No! But nice try!


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## mudman (4 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":28o85839 said:


> How about this one then?
> 
> A hundred cases of self-gratification maybe followed by horrible sounding French lubrication results in many investigations (5,5)



"Chugs Along" perhaps.

I'm expecting this to be completely wrong as I'm rubbish at these things.


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

Sorry Barry...way off. Intrigued to see how you reached your answer though :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (4 Jan 2008)

The answer is elementary, my dear Sinden!


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

Steve Maskery":3kmh1exc said:


> The answer is elementary, my dear Sinden!



Well done, Steve!!!!!!  :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (4 Jan 2008)

Now then, Roger, are you going to explain or shall I?


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

You can have the honour!


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## motownmartin (4 Jan 2008)

C'mon then :?


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## RogerS (4 Jan 2008)

OK ...

A hundred cases of self-gratification maybe followed by horrible sounding French lubrication results in many investigations (5,5)

A hundred = C
cases of self-gratification maybe = onan (from onanism)

gives you Conan

horrible sounding French lubrication

d' is the French bit and oyle sounds like oil...


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## Steve Maskery (4 Jan 2008)

I wondered who'd crack first... 

Nice one, Roger, perhaps we should make this a regular.


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## motownmartin (4 Jan 2008)

Like it  would never have got there myself.


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## Rich (4 Jan 2008)

Before I got wed, I use to love sitting in a quiet corner of the pub doing my crossie, minding my own :lol: and bothering no one, but this just seemed to bother other people, and there would always be someone who would have to come over and say "what are you stuck on Rich?" well, I used to get my revenge by saying "postmans bag" after many attempts at giving me the answer, one bright spark would always blurt out, how many letters in it? to which I would reply, "xxxxxxg thousands, now pipper off and leave me be.
Regards, Rich.

PS. keep the clues coming.
pps, I'm still learning how to use the emoticons.


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## mudman (4 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":bivm40ni said:


> Sorry Barry...way off. Intrigued to see how you reached your answer though :lol:



 

Knew I would be, always been absolute pants at these things.

Not sure if my reasoning might be a bit  

Oh well, here goes.

I got the C = hundred then I thought "what might you do for self gratification? Give yourself a hug perhaps?" 

Then I thought lubrication could be oil. The French for which according to Google is _Pétrole_. Now this sounds a bit like patrol, and what do you do when you patrol? Well, you sort of wander *along *checking on things (lots of investigations?) Then I looked at your avatar and it seemed like it might fit.

Don't laugh too much. :? 

Of course the real answer is much better. I was trying to think of what does one do for self-gratification :shock: and should have thought of The League of Gentlemen. I don't suppose you collect toads?


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## Big Fat Pig (6 Jan 2008)

Try this, it`s quite fun.!

I, for my sins, work in a factory where a fair number of the workforce seem to have been recruited from an agency called `not the sharpest chisels in the box `R` us `.And being of a mischeivous nature i like to `help` them to complete the daily paper crosswords.When someone looks stuck, i nonchanantly sidle up and say ... ` seven up`s lemonade `.

99% of the time they will say thanks and then go to write it in. The longer it takes them to suss it, the funnier it is.


Piggy


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## RogerS (6 Jan 2008)

A vicar always used to get in the same carriage every day on the train between parishes. Same seat. Same train. He was a regular Times crossword addict - as were many others in the carriage. Always a competition to see who would finish first.

One day, he overheard one of his fellow passengers whisper to a friend "..psst..I'm really stuck on 4 Down..."definitely female..4 letters". "Aunt" his friend smugly replied. "Damn" said the vicar ..rubbing out his answer.


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

On the subject of obtuse clues, here are a few culled from just one FT crossword. I've given the answer to the first one - just in the interest of science, you understand, just to show how twisted is the mind of the compiler. The others I do know the answer to but I'd like to know how you get on with them. For the life of me I can't see how they arrive at the answer.

Bacon rasher on crust in foil container? (8)

Answer - scabbard. Well, scabbard is a container and crust is the 'scab' bit I guess., But bacon rasher? Where does the foil bit come in? Answers on a postcard please....

Here are a few others

West Indians needing strip, poor men (10)

Man's return to the soil in the end (4)

Bird mentioned by incomplete clue in part of The Listener (7)

Regularly spotted sea-like animal (3)


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## Steve Maskery (7 Jan 2008)

Roger, foil is a type of sword, I believe. Hence scabbard is a foil container.
Bacon, like Shakespeare, was a Bard.

Man's return to the soil in the end must be DUST. It's STUD backwards (EDIT - no it isn't) and dust to dust etc.

I'm working on the rest...


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

Steve Maskery":mezmvh00 said:


> Roger, foil is a type of sword, I believe. Hence scabbard is a foil container.
> Bacon, like Shakespeare, was a Bard.
> 
> Man's return to the soil in the end must be DUST. It's STUD backwards and dust to dust etc.
> ...



I see the Scabbard answer, thanks.

Sadly, no cigar for DUST. It's not the right answer.


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## Steve Maskery (7 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":3vsvmc7p said:


> Regularly spotted sea-like animal (3)



BAY?


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

Sorry Steve but no.


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

Strip = bar

Poor = bad

Men = Ians

Barbadians

Paul


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

Saintsman":52e61nit said:


> Roger,
> 
> Strip = bar
> 
> ...



Well done, Paul. I couldn't see it.


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## Steve Maskery (7 Jan 2008)

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

Elk ? (sEa-LiKe)

Paul


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

Noel.

Last letter (i.e. 'in the end) of 'returN tO thE soiL

Do I get a prize yet ?!

Paul


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

Saintsman":1c4ggztp said:


> Roger,
> 
> Elk ? (sEa-LiKe)
> 
> Paul



That is indeed the answer that they give but...c'mon...I could make up any answer by picking letters at random.


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## RogerS (7 Jan 2008)

Saintsman":1owtd9ln said:


> Roger,
> 
> Noel.
> 
> ...



Well...you're certainly firing on all cylinders!!


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

Yes, but these are 'regularly spotted' i.e. alternate letters.

Sad I know................

Paul


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

OK, last one:

Bird mentioned = coch (sounds like cock) ooh er, missus

Incomplete clue = lea ('lead' unfinished)

Cochlea is, of course, part of the ear (the listener)

Allelujah !

Paul


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## Steve Maskery (7 Jan 2008)

Ah but they are not at random, Roger. 

You are good at this, aren't you, Saintsman? I know where to come now when I am stuck!

S


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Steve,

No worries, my consultancy rates are very reasonable! (like free workshop DVDs !)

Talking of which, I saw a link ages ago to your 'How to make push sticks tutorial'. Can't find it now, and I ought to make a couple while I'm still able-fingered.

Cheers,

Paul


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## Steve Maskery (7 Jan 2008)

Saintsman,
There is an older clip on YouTubeand an updated version on the DVD (with templates).

If you email me nicely I just might send you the templates 

S


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## Saintsman (7 Jan 2008)

Roger,

To return to the earlier (about a week ago !) one 

Shabby is dog-eared, made up from magistrate (doge, as you say) and then 'took risk' is 'dared' which, when executed (i.e. having its head chopped off) becomes 'ared'

Must do some work.................................

Paul


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## RogerS (10 Jan 2008)

I quite liked this one

Bestowal of gifts on Spain's capital, say (8)


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## Steve Maskery (10 Jan 2008)

How many letters, Roger?

Edit- Ah! I've just realized that if you put 8 in brackets you get the little emoticon. Eight letters then. Okydoke.


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## Saintsman (10 Jan 2008)

Roger (and Steve)

Largesse

Watson: 'Holmes, I'm stuck on seven down: A citrus bearing plant, two words'

Holmes: 'A lemon tree, my dear Watson'

Paul


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## Woodmagnet (10 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":69m5it5c said:


> I quite liked this one
> 
> Bestowal of gifts on Spain's capital, say (8)



Presents.


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## Saintsman (10 Jan 2008)

Kevin,

Why ?!

Re my previous post


Bestowal of gifts - Largesse

Spain's capital (i.e. the capital letter of 'Spain') is a 'large 'S' (thus 'say')

Yes, I know I should have better things to do..................

Paul


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## Woodmagnet (11 Jan 2008)

Bestowal of gifts=present
Capital of Spain=s
Largesse doesnt have a "large" "s", although the word does imply it.
I only tried


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## Steve Maskery (11 Jan 2008)

This one really annoyed me.

To say nothing for a quick coffee. ( 8 ).

Morons. It's also the second time I've seen that clue, so either it was in the paper and then re-published in a compilation book, or I've seen it in two different compilation books. I'd have expected better from the Telegraph.

S


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## RogerS (11 Jan 2008)

expresso

pedantically it should be espresso


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## RogerS (22 Jan 2008)

Revolving handle getting a note to emerge (7)

Fence associated with excellent crime writer (7)


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## Rich (22 Jan 2008)

revolving handle getting a note to emerge.

Emanate?

ps. how do I grab a quote and post it in my reply?


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## Jake (22 Jan 2008)

Easiest way is to hit the quote button to the top right, next to the report post button.


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## Rich (22 Jan 2008)

Jake..... I tried that but when I clicked below to begin my reply the highlighted area disappeared, I'm not a techie, but I'm not daft either, obviously I'm doing something wrong, I just need it explained in terms that I can understand,
thanks Rich.


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## RogerS (22 Jan 2008)

Rich":125ytw6c said:


> Jake..... I tried that but when I clicked below to begin my reply the highlighted area disappeared, I'm not a techie, but I'm not daft either, obviously I'm doing something wrong, I just need it explained in terms that I can understand,
> thanks Rich.



But you can do crosswords! How did you get the answer? I can see to emerge = to emanate but revolving handle?


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## Rich (22 Jan 2008)

Hi Roger, 
revolving handle=name backwards+a te(musical note)
regards, Rich.

ps, handle became another term for name during the cb radio fad, ie rubber duck.


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## Jake (22 Jan 2008)

You won't see a highlighted area, just some text (the quote) between

```
[quote="name of poster"]
```
 quoted text

```
[/quote]
```


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## Rich (22 Jan 2008)

Ok I'll try that.


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## Rich (22 Jan 2008)

Jake":26qcshub said:


> You won't see a highlighted area, just some text (the quote) between
> 
> ```
> [quote="name of poster"]
> ...



well how about that Jake, it's worked, thanks a million.
Rich.


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## RogerS (31 Jan 2008)

A few more devious ones from the FT. I know the answers now but can't see how they get them.

Rebel forces in society having need for speedy action (10)

Historian losing position in province (5)

Bishop always in time for action (1-3)

Standard Reagan claim following reshuffle (8,4)


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## Saintsman (31 Jan 2008)

Roger,

Bishop = DD (Doctor of divinity)
Always in time = ay (old word for always)

D-Day = action.

I'm thinking about the others ! 

Paul


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## Slim (31 Jan 2008)

> Rebel forces in society having need for speedy action



Speedy Action = Surge

Rebel forces = in"surge"nts

Perhaps?


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## Slim (31 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":kmznamz9 said:


> Standard Reagan claim following reshuffle (8,4)



Standard = Flag

Anagram of "Reagan claim f" = American Flag


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## RogerS (31 Jan 2008)

Slim":1gbcmdig said:


> > Rebel forces in society having need for speedy action
> 
> 
> 
> ...



almost there...


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## RogerS (31 Jan 2008)

Slim":2kywxjmu said:


> Roger Sinden":2kywxjmu said:
> 
> 
> > Standard Reagan claim following reshuffle (8,4)
> ...



You're right but isn't that a cheating devious question? Nicking just one letter from the next word.


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## Slim (31 Jan 2008)

Roger Sinden":oueygbl5 said:


> Slim":oueygbl5 said:
> 
> 
> > > Rebel forces in society having need for speedy action
> ...




insurgency?


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## RogerS (31 Jan 2008)

Slim":33kgyki4 said:


> Roger Sinden":33kgyki4 said:
> 
> 
> > Slim":33kgyki4 said:
> ...



Yup. I can see 'urgency' but how does the 'ins' fit in? 

Oh yes, it's another of those cheatin' 'let's nick a character from another word at random' clues.


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## Steve Maskery (31 Jan 2008)

In = in
S = society
urgency = speedy action.

I win, I win! Pity I had to cadge a lift for 99% of the way


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## Steve Maskery (31 Jan 2008)

We haven't dealt with the historian. The only historian I can think of is Gibbons, but I don't see how you can remove a position from him to create a province.

BTW we are wet again, this time in the kitchen. It was my workshop this morning


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## Slim (31 Jan 2008)

Steve Maskery":obm42o0w said:


> We haven't dealt with the historian. The only historian I can think of is Gibbons, but I don't see how you can remove a position from him to create a province.
> 
> BTW we are wet again, this time in the kitchen. It was my workshop this morning



Ah ha! Thanks for that little nudge Steve.



Roger Sinden":obm42o0w said:


> Historian losing position in province (5)



Historian = Thomas Macaulay

Postition = Lay

So historian losing position = Macau (a province in China)

 

Ps. Steve, I hope your tools are ok. Never mind the kitchen.


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## Slim (1 Feb 2008)

Was I right then Roger? Don't keep me in suspense.


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## RogerS (1 Feb 2008)

Slim":1nmp0njf said:


> Was I right then Roger? Don't keep me in suspense.



Sorry ...yes you were..bang on.


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## Steve Maskery (3 Feb 2008)

Whoo-hoo - done the crossword completely today! I can't remember the last time I did that. Some grey cells still left, obviously!

S


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## Slim (3 Feb 2008)

Must have been an easy one  :wink:


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