# Horizon and losing weight



## Steve Maskery (15 Sep 2012)

I don't have a telly, but I do occasionally watch things on iPlayer. One such prog was Michael Mosley on Horizon a few weeks ago. He's about my age and has made a rather better fist of life than I have. He's made several progs about lifestyle and health (I rather like his idea of exercising for just 20 seconds at a time  )
This particular one was about patterns of eating and metabolism. It's been known for a long time that people who eat only just enough to stay alive live to be a thousand years old. We in the west die from overeating (heart disease, cancer, diabetes, stroke etc), whereas people who have little food rarely die from these diseases. They may die from other unpleasant causes, but not the same as us.
Anyway, to cut to the chase, one such solution is to restrict one's calorific input for 2 days a week to 600 calories. That is not very much, I can tell you. And given that I enjoy cooking as well as eating, it's a challenge.

But not an insurmountable one.

So I've had a few days of fasting over the last month or so. I've been a big bloke for most of the last 20years, although I wasn't particularly so until my mid-30s. When my wife left I lost weight, but over the last year I have put on 2 stones. A routine Blood Pressure test convinced me that something had to be done and I didn't really want to go onto BP tablets for the rest of my life. So the Horizon prog was very timely.

What I was particularly surprised about was the challenge of having a day of no alcohol. I drink far more than I should. I can't remember the last time I got drunk, but I have drunk some alcohol every day for years. A day off was a rarity.

But actually keeping off the pop has not been a problem. It appears I'm not alcoholic after all. That quite surprises me, to be honest. So I've not quite done the day-on-day-off regime, but I have done two or three days a week and this is the result. I lost 6lb in the first week but it's taken me another 4 weeks to do the other 6.

It's not easy, for someone who likes food and cooking, but reading the scales is quite a fillip.

Got to go, I'm cooking dinner for a Date. I must be absolutely out of my tree. Somebody pull me to my senses.
S


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## Blister (15 Sep 2012)

Good luck Steve

If you have time can you loose 2 stone for me as well :wink:


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## Bigdanny (15 Sep 2012)

Well Done Steve. I am also a big guy and have been for most of my life. When I was younger did a lot of swimming and at times at the gym. But alas the pounds are still there. I saw the same program and thought the idea very interesting and also not so much of a drudge as a "diet" . Was thinking to give it a go. Keep it up.
Good luck on the date. 
D


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## Dibs-h (15 Sep 2012)

Hi Steve,

A "drum" round the middle creeps up on us all and bloody slowly at that. I was at the GP's earlier this year - just routine stuff and since I hadn't been in almost 5yrs, she decides to do the full monty - height, weight, blood pressure, etc. Thankfully nothing involving having my pants pulled down. :shock: :lol: 

Then she (who's 5' tall and about 5' wide) announces that I'm overweight. A bit startling considering at 6' tall, I was 14.5st. I didn't think so.

Anyways - I dismissed it, but it sat in the back of my mind for some weeks, then Googling, BMI and hip\waist circumference - I realised that I was overweight - albeit not grossly.

Over the coming 3 months - I stopped eating like a pig. That was the usual MO - i.e. eat until no more would fit in and then feel uncomfortable after an hour or so & reach for the Gaviscon. I started eating portions of half the size and then waited an hour - if I still felt hungry, then I would a little more and see how that went 30-60 mins later. Very rarely did I have to eat anymore.

Over 3 months - my weight went from 14.5 stones to 12.5 stones. Waist went from 36" to 32" and tshirt from XL down to M. For the last 2 months, my weight has been more or less stable.

The gut has gone! :mrgreen: 

Plan to loose another stone as 11.5st puts me bang in the middle of the BMI scale for my height. I appreciate BMI is vague and somewhat inaccurate, but its a good starting point. Bought some skin fat calipers and my body fat is about 12% now.  

The only downside of loosing weight - is new clothes!

The last stone for me will be hard - as the body doesn't want to give up the last lot of fat. But "carb cycling" seems a good way to go.

Keep it up - it certainly is nice to take a p!ss and see the "business end" without effort - "Hello my old friend" Long time no see!" :lol: 

Dibs


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## Paul Chapman (15 Sep 2012)

Well done, Steve =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## stevebuk (15 Sep 2012)

i also had high blood pressure and have been taking tablets for ages, i also suffer from arthritis in both knees but my left knee is the bad one, i decided i needed help to loose weight after several wasted diets so i nipped along to my local slimming world and joined, cost a tenner and £5 weekly to be weighed in and talk about what we eat/cook throughout the week.
Here i am now 12 weeks on and 1 1/2 stone lighter, it hasn't been plain sailing either but its amazing just how much you can eat and still loose weight. My knees are better and i feel so much better in myself, try it steve..


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## Cheshirechappie (15 Sep 2012)

Over the years I've listened to lots of advice on diet and health, and I've come to the conclusion that most of it is either exaggerated or boloney. I don't take much notice of things like BMI; every member of the England Rugby Union squad would be classed as clinically obese by BMI. Then there's the regular scares - red meat is bad for you, some red meat is good for you; don't eat this, don't eat that, eat only the other. It's reached the point where I seriously think the medical profession is not at all sure what to believe, and anyway, I object to being nannied by patronising know-alls, some of whom clearly don't take their own advice (or if they do, it doesn't work).

Fairly recently, I have heard what I consider sensible thinking about the subject. The human species has been evolving for several hundred thousand years, and for the great majority of that time, we were hunter-gatherers. A bit of meat and fish when we could get it, nuts, berries, leaves and roots. In the last few thousand years, we've started eating grains, but we aren't really digestively evolved to cope with them completely. Only in the very recent past have processed sugars entered the diet; artificial additives even more recently. So, the thinking is to base your diet on that of a hunter-gatherer - eat fresh foods, mostly plants, with a bit of fresh meat and fish. There's no need to be obsessive about it; have a bit of a treat now and again, but not three times a day! Don't base your diet on processed foods and ready meals, cut down on the grains like bread and pasta, try and do without the processed sugars, and especially the hydrogenated and similar artificial fats. Some natural fats (like olive oil and the fats on decent meat) are OK in moderation. Don't consume excess alcohol, but enjoy a drink now and again. Eat foods in season - blackberry and apple crumble is great this time of year, asparagus in April and May, strawberries in June and so on - then there's always something to look forward to (winter and early spring can be a bit of a problem, but hey-ho).

Above all, don't get obsessive about it. Adjust to it slowly. Cut down on the naughty things a bit at a time, and in due course you find you don't want them anyway. I haven't eaten a Mars bar in years, and don't really want to any more - used to love 'em. Take some exercise by all means, but exercise burns surprisingly few calories; controlling body weight is best done by limiting what goes in, in such a way that you feel you've had enough to eat - a diet that leaves you hungry will just make you eat more in the end. It's just about eating enough, not more than enough, and eating good stuff. Oh, and enjoying eating it, too.

Edit to add - I've found the book that outlined the above; "Waist Disposal" by Dr John Briffa. Not your usual diet book. Recommended.


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## gus3049 (15 Sep 2012)

Cheshirechappie":ami8t7za said:


> Fairly recently, I have heard what I consider sensible thinking about the subject. The human species has been evolving for several hundred thousand years, and for the great majority of that time, we were hunter-gatherers. A bit of meat and fish when we could get it, nuts, berries, leaves and roots. In the last few thousand years, we've started eating grains, but we aren't really digestively evolved to cope with them completely. Only in the very recent past have processed sugars entered the diet; artificial additives even more recently. So, the thinking is to base your diet on that of a hunter-gatherer - eat fresh foods, mostly plants, with a bit of fresh meat and fish. There's no need to be obsessive about it; have a bit of a treat now and again, but not three times a day! Don't base your diet on processed foods and ready meals, cut down on the grains like bread and pasta, try and do without the processed sugars, and especially the hydrogenated and similar artificial fats. Some natural fats (like olive oil and the fats on decent meat) are OK in moderation. Don't consume excess alcohol, but enjoy a drink now and again. Eat foods in season - blackberry and apple crumble is great this time of year, asparagus in April and May, strawberries in June and so on - then there's always something to look forward to (winter and early spring can be a bit of a problem, but hey-ho).
> 
> Above all, don't get obsessive about it. Adjust to it slowly. Cut down on the naughty things a bit at a time, and in due course you find you don't want them anyway. I haven't eaten a Mars bar in years, and don't really want to any more - used to love 'em. Take some exercise by all means, but exercise burns surprisingly few calories; controlling body weight is best done by limiting what goes in, in such a way that you feel you've had enough to eat - a diet that leaves you hungry will just make you eat more in the end. It's just about eating enough, not more than enough, and eating good stuff. Oh, and enjoying eating it, too.



You are describing my diet, I am very rarely hungry but we eat well. I do exercise on a weight machine and an exercise bike as my back won't take the real thing on French roads.

I'm 6'4" and just over 11 stone so it all works for me. The joy of eating this way is not just the effect on the weight and body generally but the flavour of fresh food. Those that eat out of supermarkets and junk probably don't remember what real food in season tastes like. Our neighbour thinks we are nuts and that the food she buys tastes the same as the food we grow but then she and her husband smoke so their taste buds are probably buggered. 

Didn't see mention of the weed on here. Another reason to give it up if you indulge in such a foolish habit.


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## Doug B (15 Sep 2012)

Just remember per ML orange juice has a higher calorific value than beer.

Though apparently that`s no excuse for gettig caught having a beer with your cornflakes.


So remember...try not to get caught.


Cheers.


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## Louise-Paisley (15 Sep 2012)

I have struggled with my weight for about 6 years now, not so much loosing it but not being able to stop putting it on! 

I have gained 3 stone in 6 years and not been able to do anything about it, then about 2 months ago I noticed I had lost 2lb so that gave me hope. I started having cornflakes for breakfast and lunch where previously I had nothing and I have lost 2 stone in 2 months!

If I can get rid of another I will be having a large four seasons pizza to celebrate :lol:


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## llangatwgnedd (16 Sep 2012)

I found losing weight was the easy bit (three stone nine pounds in Twelve weeks).
Staying on target is the hardest.

I attended Slimming World with all the ladies, and enjoyed the pleasure of being the only male in class :wink: :wink:


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## RogerS (16 Sep 2012)

Several pointers touched on here. What type of food that suits one person won't necessarily suit the next person. Follow up Indian Ayurvedic medicine as that philosophy addresses the three body types and what type of food suits which type.

Check out Glycemic Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycemic_index but again don't forget that what suits one person won't suit the next. Experiment.

BMI is a naff and inaccurate measurement especially if you go to the gym a fair bit since muscle weighs more than fat.


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## Steve Maskery (16 Sep 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement chaps, much appreciated.
On a Sunday I go walking. We usually do 7 - 10 miles.
Today, led by my mate Bloody Mac, who had not planned it properly- "I don't know quite how far it is, perhaps just a bit longer than normal - maybe 10 and a half". 

10.5 my eye. 15 miles, and up hill and down dale to boot. I can hardly walk.

On the other hand, despite a pint at the end, I've just staggered in and run a bath and I am at my lowest weight for 6 months. 1 more pound and I will have lost a full stone. Even that is bigger than the sylph-like Steve you see in the films.

Trouble is I am ravenous and want to pig out.

S


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## Racers (16 Sep 2012)

Hi, Steve

Nice going, there will be nothing left of you in a few weeks!

I am over weight acording to my BMI !!!


Pete


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## Steve Maskery (16 Sep 2012)

You are a skinny little runt by comparison!

S


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## wobblycogs (16 Sep 2012)

Congrats on the weight loss Steve.

I've found that sitting at a desk all day has really caused my weight to rise but finding the time to get out and exercise is hard. Oddly enough I have no trouble losing weight but keeping it off seems like an impossible task. If I wan't to lose weight I just go on a 1000 to 1500 calorie/day diet and the weight just falls off and to boot I'm probably living longer which is a nice bonus. 

BMI isn't perfect but for most people it's a pretty good and simple measure. If you are super fit, short / tall etc it doesn't give a terribly reliable figure but most people aren't like that. From what I've read the waist / hip measurement is actually the best simple predictor of health but I found that it's too difficult to measure accurately on your own.


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## Dibs-h (17 Sep 2012)

Steve

The following,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/tools/hip_t ... aist.shtml

is probably a better indicator than BMI, for the layman.

I've just got down to 0.9 :mrgreen: 

Keep it up mate!

Dibs


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## Gill (17 Sep 2012)

Hi Steve

I've been following the 5:2 diet since the Horizon programme, quite successfully too  . The weight loss is welcome but I'm hoping for the ancillary benefits that Dr Mosley mentioned rather than losing weight. I know of some good sites for fasting day recipes if you're interested - indeed, I've even devised some of my own  .


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## Steve Maskery (17 Sep 2012)

Gill":23frm72s said:


> I know of some good sites for fasting day recipes if you're interested - indeed, I've even devised some of my own  .



Ooh, yes please. I'm getting tired of omelette and beans.
S


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## Steve Maskery (17 Sep 2012)

If anyone would like to watch it and hasn't done so, there is a copy here. I don't know how long it will stay there, it's my mate's dead-letter drop-box. Quite a big download so I hope you are not still on dial up...

http://www.facebook.com/l/uAQF3-nhGAQFu ... Longer.mp4


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## RogerS (17 Sep 2012)

Dibs-h":2m4hkjgj said:


> Steve
> 
> The following,
> 
> ...



But it is only aimed at fatties as it doesn't go below 38cm waist size!


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## Steve Maskery (17 Sep 2012)

Any person with a waist below 38cm doesn't need to read this thread!

S


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## doctor Bob (17 Sep 2012)

I'm on a zero fat diet at present, its a killer.

Breakfast- oatmeal with water
Lunch- chicken breast of tin of tuna
Tea- Pasta with grilled chicken breast
plus apples, veggies, black coffee and vit suppliments

I want to compete in the indoor rowing championships in 3 years time (over 50's), I think I may be having a mid life crisis.


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## defsdoor (17 Sep 2012)

Fat is ok to eat - it's carbs that are the killer.


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## Gill (17 Sep 2012)

Here's one of my recipes for you. It's very mild so perhaps another teaspoon of curry powder wouldn't hurt. You might like to add another teaspoon of cornflour to thicken it more, but not too much - gotta watch those calories  . Oh, and I know the portions are small but it is supposed to be served on a fast day.

*Lo-Cal Chicken Curry*







Serves 4. Total calories per portion: 116

Ingredients

5 sprays of oil (5 cal)
175g chopped onion (40 cal) (half a large onion)
140g chopped carrot (30 cal) (one medium/large carrot)
100g chopped yellow pepper (33 cal) (one pepper)
200g chopped chicken leg and thigh meat, trimmed and skin removed (240 cal)
1 chopped inch root ginger (20 cal)
5g curry powder (6 cal)
5g cornflour (15 cal)
1 tin chopped tomatoes (74 cal)
Salt to taste
Chopped coriander garnish

Spray oil into frying pan. Fry onions until lightly brown, then add chicken and brown. Add carrot, pepper and ginger. Stir for a minute to allow the ginger to infuse. Add the curry powder and fry for another minute, then stir in the cornflour. Once the cornflour is absorbed, add the tomatoes and bring to a simmer, stirring.

Cook until tender.

Garnish with chopped coriander and serve with 50g brown Basmati rice (177 cal).

This blog has some useful ideas. I'm currently trying to find the Konjac/Shirataki noodles she mentions and I _may_ have found a retailer, but I'll have to wait until the store's next stock delivery arrives.

Oh, and the Telegraph had a feature on the 5:2 diet a little while ago.

HTH


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## RogerS (17 Sep 2012)

defsdoor":3oc3xw7r said:


> Fat is ok to eat - it's carbs that are the killer.



Your evidence is ?


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## Cheshirechappie (17 Sep 2012)

RogerS":3oruo7jh said:


> defsdoor":3oruo7jh said:
> 
> 
> > Fat is ok to eat - it's carbs that are the killer.
> ...



T'is true. The human species evolved for several hundred thousand years as hunter-gatherers, so we are digestively well able to cope natural fats such as that on meat. We're not adapted to deal with artificial fats such as hydrogenated fat, margarine and the like. It's only in the last few thousand years that we've taken up farming, and started to eat grains in quantity (and thus bread, pasta, rice etc), and we're not really adapted to cope with them fully. Similarly, potatoes are a very recent addition to our diet, and processed sugars. We don't really need any of them.

Source: "Waist Disposal" by Dr John Briffa.


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## wobblycogs (17 Sep 2012)

I feel that I need to point out that as long as you eat fewer calories that you expend you will always lose weight. Fair enough you might have to eat like a rabbit but it will work (if you don't believe me try not eating for a while). I have long suspected that a lot of these "carbs are bad", "fat is bad", xyz is bad" diets work mostly because they cut out a large portion of what you would normally eat and you inadvertently restrict your calorie intake. 

I'm not saying there's absolutely nothing to these food restriction diets it just that for the most part your body is producing the same things from the food you eat whether you feed it fat, sugar or carbs. The thing that really set alarm bells ringing for me about carb restriction diets is that it seems to ignore the fact that carbohydrates are found in vegetables and fruits. I, personally, favour a health well balanced diet with lots of chocolate.


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## Dibs-h (17 Sep 2012)

wobblycogs":3fqeidsx said:


> the fact that carbohydrates are found in vegetables and fruits.



I think those are perfectly fine - its the refined carbs that are the issue. I see the surgeon who did my hernia repair on Thursday and hopefully will be told "do what you like", at the 6 week "sign-off".

Then it's on to some exercise (weights\gym) to loose the last 1st and gain some muscle mass. :mrgreen: 

I've been reading up massively on the old tinernet about sensible ways to loose fat and the sites that can evidence their approaches - all of them talk about plenty of vegetables, especially the green ones.

As some have said - keeping the weight stable is the issue. For that it needs to be a lifestyle change as no one wants to stay on those "diets" forever or long term. :wink: 

Dibs


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## promhandicam (17 Sep 2012)

Doug B":27arv6dz said:


> Just remember per ML orange juice has a higher calorific value than beer.
> 
> Though apparently that`s no excuse for gettig caught having a beer with your cornflakes.
> 
> ...



If you switched to orange juice Doug you'd end up looking like this






:lol:


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## RogerS (18 Sep 2012)

Cheshirechappie":1paun8te said:


> RogerS":1paun8te said:
> 
> 
> > defsdoor":1paun8te said:
> ...



We've been here before discussing this and I'm not going to waste my time reading crank books that have not been peer reviewed. Read what StevieB has to say on the topic.


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## Cheshirechappie (18 Sep 2012)

We've been here before discussing this and I'm not going to waste my time reading crank books that have not been peer reviewed. Read what StevieB has to say on the topic.[/quote]


If you don't want to read the book, that's fine - it's your choice in a free country. I'd be a tad careful about dismissing books you haven't read as 'crank books' though. This particular one is scientifically based.


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## RogerS (18 Sep 2012)

Cheshirechappie":2y8ckrtx said:


> We've been here before discussing this and I'm not going to waste my time reading crank books that have not been peer reviewed. Read what StevieB has to say on the topic.




If you don't want to read the book, that's fine - it's your choice in a free country. I'd be a tad careful about dismissing books you haven't read as 'crank books' though. *This particular one is scientifically based.*[/quote]

Where? No evidence whatsoever on his blog...promoting..surprise, surprise...his book. Where are the peer-reviewed scientific studies? 

Oh, silly me, I missed it. Here it is....from his website..

_Tatler magazine – listed as one of the UK’s top private doctors – 2006_

As they say in Dragon's Den, as far as this thread goes, I'm out.


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## chippymart (18 Sep 2012)

Hi Steve
You should look at a company called Herbalife and the products that they sell. The wife and I own a gym and she has just started selling these products and they are great for weight loss.
I struggle to eat brekkie in the morning so she brought home some milkshake powder,which is full of nutrients and minerals and got me to drink for breakfast. In two weeks I lost 4 pounds. They also do protein bars for snacking and they taste great, they also do a tea. 
It has proved very popular with our members and we often sell £300-400 worth of products daily.
Seems to have worked for both of us.
Martin


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## Gill (18 Sep 2012)

Gill":osfzyocf said:


> I'm currently trying to find the Konjac/Shirataki noodles she mentions...



I've found some  . Holland & Barrett stock these practically calorie-free products under the name "Zero Noodles" but they're not cheap. Tomorrow's a fasting day so I'll learn what they taste like. I've heard the flavour is quite different from conventional noodles, which is hardly surprising.


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## Steve Maskery (18 Sep 2012)

I've just written, and lost, a long reply. I really should do a CtrlC before posting. however the gist was this.

Gill, thank you , but I need recipes for 1 not 4. It comes from a mid life discontinuity...

Martin, thank you, but I am low-budget. My bro went that route. He did lose weight, but he spent a lot of money. I personally have absolutely no difficulty eating breakfast, nor any other meal! 

I've just cooked this:
http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/2916 ... ur-chicken

I did it without the batter, but even so, I suspect I've breached the 600Kcal mark. It was, however, absolutely delicious.

I did start to write a cookery book. The idea was that you used to have a big kitchen with an Aga and a kitchen garden, but are now living in a flat above a chip shop in Stapleford with nothing but a Baby Belling and a a kettle. OK, I never had the Aga, nor am I living in a flat above a chip chop, but you get the idea.

"How to survive divorce and still love your kitchen." The cover photo would be of a recipe book of intimate meals for two, with a kitchen knife stuck through it and a river of gravy (jus?) running from the wound. You get the gist. I think I might revisit the idea.

Bitter, moi?
S


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## riclepp (18 Sep 2012)

Errr, humans will get fatter and drop dead more quickly than before....why???

Food is in abundance, espically fat laddend stuff...(Greggs, Bakers oven, KFC, MacD's etc). For the most part we are also lazy, drive the five minute walk to get the paper...you know who you are. Too much alcohol available you know in garages, sweet shops and open all hours pubs.

We no longer as a speices eat only what we need to survive. As someone said earlier years ago we were hunter gatehers so you only had minimal food stuffs, so you proberly did'nt see too many fatties as we do in this day and age. Also we never had central heating, double or triple glazed windows or any of the other insulation we have now. So we would shiver to stay warm and thus burns off calories. Yes you will always have obese people who have medical conditions that cause weight gain, but you will also get the ones that are pigs, just look at the news you will see them. I watch what I eat and I exercise in order to stay trim. Why can't others do the same????? I understand fully as you get older you can't do the things you used to, but you can and should watch what you eat. I get fed up with obese people say it is not their fault for being large....well who's fault is it then....did I force you to eat a 14" pizza, or the large KFC meal...no I did not...you did. In order to stay trim or lose weight you cannot just do it by diet alone, you also need to exercise as well , and I believe if you want it that bad you will succed and acheive the results you want. All the ones that fall by the wayside are weak and wish to blame someone else for their problems. I make no apologies for the rant, but I really get fed up with wingers and people who blame everyone else for their weight or other issues. I am just like every one else I would love to just sit on my buttocks and stuff my face, but I could not do that..due to self respect, I run 3 - 5 mile every day, do weights in the winter and cycle every two or three days and swim at the weekends. If I can do this so can anybody else, I spend an hour and a half exercising every day and there is pleanty of time to do it. Ask yourself how many hours do you sit on the couch watching drival on telly 5 - 6 hour every evening?????


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## JakeS (18 Sep 2012)

Cheshirechappie":tlwesghi said:


> T'is true. The human species evolved for several hundred thousand years as hunter-gatherers, so we are digestively well able to cope natural fats such as that on meat. We're not adapted to deal with artificial fats such as hydrogenated fat, margarine and the like. It's only in the last few thousand years that we've taken up farming, and started to eat grains in quantity (and thus bread, pasta, rice etc), and we're not really adapted to cope with them fully.



So what you're saying is that we should cut out these elements of our diets so that in a few more millennia, our descendants have the same problem? Seems remarkably self-centred and inconsiderate to me! ;-)

(Personally I'm very sceptical of any diet that has a name; names are for marketing, and if it's being marketed it's because someone's making money off of it, which means whatever they say they don't have my best interests at heart. And the above sounds... familiar.)


I'm going with "exercise more and eat less", which doesn't have a snazzy name and nobody's written a fancy book or run a series of seminars, but I seem to be losing weight, so I'm not unhappy with it yet. The best thing about eating less is that it's also reduced my appetite; my girlfriend suggested having a 'day off' every week and we had a Chinese takeaway for it a couple of weeks ago; I made it about a third of the way through what I used to eat before I felt completely stuffed.


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## Cheshirechappie (18 Sep 2012)

RogerS":2vogaruq said:


> Cheshirechappie":2vogaruq said:
> 
> 
> > We've been here before discussing this and I'm not going to waste my time reading crank books that have not been peer reviewed. Read what StevieB has to say on the topic.
> ...



Where? No evidence whatsoever on his blog...promoting..surprise, surprise...his book. Where are the peer-reviewed scientific studies? 

Oh, silly me, I missed it. Here it is....from his website..

_Tatler magazine – listed as one of the UK’s top private doctors – 2006_

As they say in Dragon's Den, as far as this thread goes, I'm out.[/quote]


Roger - I'm sorry if I've inadvertently provoked you or trod on a corn, or something. I've no wish to upset anyone over this (or any other) subject - but I don't really understand why your response to my post is so direct; intemperate, even. I wasn't part of the Stevieb thread, and haven't read it, so don't know what has upset you in it, but - as I said - I didn't take part in it. If you have an argument with him over something, that's between you and him, but please don't turn your fire on me.

I don't make a habit of reading diet books, but as my trouser waistband became a little tighter, I thought I'd better take some notice before it started costing me for a new wardrobe. I did suggest Dr Briffa's book because it is based on medical and scientific knowledge (true, it isn't a scientific treatise peer reviewed, but based on good science and medical research it is) and it's also practical and (fairly) down to earth. Now, you've made it clear that you don't want to read the book, and that's fine - free country - but don't just dismiss something you haven't read as unscientific. I hope I'm wrong, but I feel you're calling my judgement into question, and to be honest, I find that a wee bit hurtful. (By the way, I'm a professional mechanical engineer, so no stranger to scientific method and rigour.)

Roger - I'm not looking for an argument. I mentioned the book because I was impressed with it, with it's approach and conclusions, and I thought it might be of interest to others. That's all.


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## Cheshirechappie (18 Sep 2012)

JakeS":1al28xr0 said:


> Cheshirechappie":1al28xr0 said:
> 
> 
> > T'is true. The human species evolved for several hundred thousand years as hunter-gatherers, so we are digestively well able to cope natural fats such as that on meat. We're not adapted to deal with artificial fats such as hydrogenated fat, margarine and the like. It's only in the last few thousand years that we've taken up farming, and started to eat grains in quantity (and thus bread, pasta, rice etc), and we're not really adapted to cope with them fully.
> ...



Jake - that's not what I'm saying, and it's not what the book says either. Interestingly, what the book does say is that you should balance what you eat to the energy you use, which is pretty much what you said. The book also suggests that our digestive systems are evolved to the diet of hunter-gatherers, and a lot of the modern high-energy foods such as artificial sugars are nutrition we're not really adapted to cope with. Itdoesn't say that you shouldn't eat them, but it does explain how it's very easy to take on more energy than you use if you do eat them to excess. Hence the general concern with there being so many people about carrying more weight than they should. 

By the way, it's not a 'named diet'. It's just an objective look at human nutrition from a medical and scientific viewpoint, and guidance on how to achieve a sensible balanced diet without being too prissy about it.


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## Dibs-h (18 Sep 2012)

JakeS":1h9ylbqk said:


> I'm going with "exercise more and eat less",


Me too! :mrgreen: I stopped eating like a pig, i.e. eat until no more would fit in!  



JakeS":1h9ylbqk said:


> I made it about a third of the way through what I used to eat before I felt completely stuffed.


Went out for a meal with some mates last week and and a similar struggle. Pleasantly surprising.

Dibs


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## Gill (18 Sep 2012)

Steve Maskery":2lu2jyjr said:


> Gill, thank you , but I need recipes for 1 not 4...



It freezes very well if you portion it.


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## riclepp (19 Sep 2012)

Drink water and that helps to suppress your apitite and cleans out some of the rubbish we have in our bodies from what we eat. Don't forget you sweat 24 hours a day, even if it is cold. When you lose water your hunger increases, therefore you eat more and if you don't exercise you pile on the pounds. So water is a key element is any exercise/diet reigeme.

Cheers

Richard


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## RogerS (19 Sep 2012)

Cheshirechappie...no corns trodden on and I'm not deliberately taking a pop at you.

I will tell you where I am at.

Walk into any bookshop and you will see shelves full of the latest 'fad' diet. I am glad that Briffa's diet works for you and as you say, it is open to anyone to read his book if they want to.

But despite all your protestations, I see no evidence of any medical research...at least in the context that is generally accepted within the scientific and medical community. Just because he is a doctor and says it is so does not make it research. Looking at his website, the whole thing is all about his self-promotion and screams 'Snake Oil' at me.

The thread that I referred to ended up in a heated discussion between those who believed in the rigour of scientific and peer-reviewed research (as advocated by myself, StevieB (who actually specialises in body metabolism) and others) and those who did not. We had the same discussions there.

As I said in an earlier post, different bodies need/are responsive to different types of food. The Indian Ayurvedics had it sussed thousands of years ago. Some people thrive on high protein, some do not. Same goes for carbohydrates and fat. But as soon as I see anyone saying something like 'carbohydrates are bad for you' then I see red as that statement is totally without any scientific foundation...despite what Mr Snake Oil says.


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## riclepp (19 Sep 2012)

RogerS":32c035tv said:


> Cheshirechappie...no corns trodden on and I'm not deliberately taking a pop at you.
> 
> I will tell you where I am at.
> 
> ...




Is that the old adage, you are what you eat?????

Cheers


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## Gill (19 Sep 2012)

Today is a fasting day so for lunch I made Beef in Oyster Sauce with cabbage and noodles for two. It only contained 166 calories per portion and tasted yummy even by the standards of a non-fasting day.


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## Dibs-h (19 Sep 2012)

Gill":1tbpt8bn said:


> Today is a fasting day so for lunch



Am I missing something here? :lol: :wink:


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## Gill (19 Sep 2012)

Could be  .

Fasting is not the same as starving. On the 5:2 diet men are allowed a maximum of 600 calories per fasting day and women are allowed up to 500 calories.


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## Steve Maskery (19 Sep 2012)

Yes Dibs, you are! 
In this context, fasting does not mean eating nothing, it means eating no more than 600 calories per day.

Nice one, Gill.

S
PS Beaten!


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## Dibs-h (19 Sep 2012)

Hey - good to know! Thanks for the clarification! :wink: 

Dibs


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## doctor Bob (19 Sep 2012)

RogerS":yzv6yu6h said:


> As they say in Dragon's Den, as far as this thread goes, I'm out.






RogerS":yzv6yu6h said:


> I will tell you where I am at.




Just to clarify....are you "out" or "in".......


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## sometimewoodworker (19 Sep 2012)

A little background. 
I used to have a 32" waist, still do in my mind.  . But over time in my early 40s it got to be over 38" when I realised that on a holliday  I was so shocked I went on a diet and got back down to a 32". 

Some years roll by and up goes my weight and blood pressure. The Doc. puts me on a mild medication, I say if I loose 10kg will I still need the meds? He says no but you can't loose the weight. So I drop 12kg in 12 weeks and gradually drop the meds. No problem. 

A few years later up goes the weight BMI over 32! So I go back on my calorie and portion control diet and loose enough to not be fat. 

Fast forward to last year. My BMI gets to be over 30! I think OK  I'll go back on my calorie and portion control diet and loose weight. 4 weeks later I give up as it will not work. 
As my calorie count drops so does my metabolism. So I give up as the same diet that I used before to drop about 1 kg per week did nothing. 

This summer I have a checkup and in mid July. Weight 106kg BMI 33.8.  I also work with no shirt on during the summer as it is hot in Thailand. The pics my wife took show me that I am fat and it is ugly.
Enough is enough. 
Calorie control does not work for me now as the older you get the less it works. 
So no calorie control, I can't be bothered with portion control either, doesn't work for me. 
Over my 6 week holiday my weight is now dropping  it is a diet that works for me and I am loosing weight.
Today, just over 7 weeks from starting my weight is down to just over 98kg and BMI to 31.4  

I still have a long way to go as I hope to get my BMI down to under 28 and that is 13kg away. 

Can I do it? I think I may be able to. 
I don't aim to be fit. I find excersize is boring. But I do use the train instead of my motorcycle to go to work now. So I am getting at lest 30 mins walking in a day


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## wobblycogs (19 Sep 2012)

I'm glad you've found a regime that is working for you but you are wrong to say that calorie restriction won't / doesn't work for you. If you really believe it won't work try just drinking water for a couple of weeks (no food). You'll find, just like everyone else, that you lose weight. 

Yes, your metabolism slows as you age, it doesn't let you break the laws of nature.


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## Gill (19 Sep 2012)

It's illuminating to follow this conversation and note other people's concerns (or otherwise  ) about their diet and how it affects their quality of life. Although the title of the thread is "Horizon and losing weight", the Horizon programme itself wasn't really about losing weight; it was about how our bodies age and what we can do to minimise the damage we incur just through living longer.

Whilst the programme didn't prove that fasting will reduce exposure to debilitating conditions associated with aging, the evidence was sufficiently strong for Dr Mosley to change his eating habits. Steve and I have both chosen independently to do likewise and as a result (if I can presume to speak for Steve) we are feeling the benefits. Steve has lost weight, as have I, but that was not the reason why I chose to follow the 5:2 diet. My family has a history of diabetes and glaucoma, conditions which can be very debilitating if they are neglected. I don't have either condition yet so I'm hoping this diet will enable my body to repair itself on fasting days (that was the premise of the Horizon programme) and mean that I never suffer either condition. If the diet reduces my risk of suffering heart disease, dementia and other age-related conditions, then so much the better. I know I'm not going to live forever but I want the time I have here to be as good as possible for as long as possible. I'm not particularly bothered if I lose weight in the process, although it's a welcome side-effect  .


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## sometimewoodworker (19 Sep 2012)

wobblycogs":1qhfkmvl said:


> I'm glad you've found a regime that is working for you but you are wrong to say that calorie restriction won't / doesn't work for you. If you really believe it won't work try just drinking water for a couple of weeks (no food). You'll find, just like everyone else, that you lose weight.
> 
> Yes, your metabolism slows as you age, it doesn't let you break the laws of nature.


I am not wrong to say that calorie restriction won't / doesn't work for me. I have the emperical evidence. And it doesn't.

There is a difference between restriction and elimination and it is not just the spelling  

I don't say that it won't work for others, it does, but not for me.


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## wobblycogs (19 Sep 2012)

If you agree that you would starve if you ate nothing then surely you must also agree that if you ate a very small amount (lets say a lettuce leaf a day) you would still starve. Extrapolate that until you get to the point where you are eating just enough to neither gain nor lose weight. Calorie restriction will work for you, I suspect the problem is that you'd need to eat an unacceptably small amount.


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## Dibs-h (19 Sep 2012)

Jerome

Buddy, how you doing? Long time or so it seems! LOL!

Might be an idea to change what you eat? You can eat plenty of things that are filling volume wise but have low calorie content and even tho your metabolism has slowed (a little) with age - I firmly believe being in a calorie deficit will result in weight loss.

You perhaps just need to find the "things" (i.e. food groups) that work for you.

For me cutting out the refined (simple) carbs & sugars has made a huge difference as well as tilting the diet so it is more in protein than it used to be - certainly not Atkins or close.

Protein - from what I've read & perhaps Steve (the other one - Mr PhD) can confirm, has a higher thermic effect, i.e. the energy used to consume\digest protein is higher than any other food group.

Regards

Dibs


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## sometimewoodworker (20 Sep 2012)

Dibs-h":1pk73aov said:


> Jerome
> 
> Buddy, how you doing? Long time or so it seems! LOL!
> 
> ...


Hi Dibs

As I mentioned in my write up I have now found something that has let me drop at least 6kg in the last 2 months.

When I tried last year I was on a diet that was between 1,300 and 1,500 calories per day and with a very small portion size(My usual diet had been about 2500 cal per day) This didn't work for me although it had worked for me a couple of years before. 

Now I've given up portion control I've given up calorie counting and I'm losing about 1 kg every week to 2 weeks. I eat as much as I want, I eat as often as I want but I don't find I want to eat that much.

I think a mistake that some people are making is to think that the same diets will work whatever age you are I found that they don't .


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## Dibs-h (20 Sep 2012)

Hi Jerome

Most things (I think) do work for most people. That obviously leaves some who have to try different things.

I don't think we are disagreeing! :wink: 

With your "diet", for weight loss to be taking place - you must be in a calorie deficit. I can't see you being in a calorie surplus and loosing weight.

Dibs


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## wobblycogs (20 Sep 2012)

Don't forget the body is a complex machine, I have often wondered if by excluding certain food groups it's possible that you leave your body unable to extract all the useful energy from what you eat. That would leave you short of calories, and therefore losing weight, but apparently eating enough to put on weight. Since your gut is full of bacteria, which may be playing a role in this process, I don't think it's immediately obvious how you could test for it. 

Having said that unless I see some really strong evidence indicating that's true I'm sticking with thinking that all diets work because you put less energy in than you use.


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## Steve Maskery (20 Sep 2012)

Whilst I can't argue with that last point, it seems that it is rather more complex than that.
Gill is right in that the thrust of he Horizon program was not the weight loss _per se_, but the other health benefits that come with it, like lower blood sugar and lower blood pressure. But those benefit were the result of not carrying around so much weight.
In one of the of the experiments, they found, to their surprise, that it didn't matter whether you were on a low-fat diet or a high-fat one, on your feeding days, just as long as you had the 600cal days in between. So there we have two people with very different weekly calorie counts, but benefiting in the same way. No, I don't understand it either, but that's what they found.
I'm fasting today and fancy something different. Gill, where did you find that beef in oyster sauce recipe?
S


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## Gill (20 Sep 2012)

I devised that recipe myself, Steve  . It was difficult to find recipes aimed specifically at 5:2 dieters, so I thought I'd see what I could do and it turned out to my satisfaction. I've got an email address for you (I hope it's current :? ) so I'll send you a copy.


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## sometimewoodworker (20 Sep 2012)

wobblycogs":1rlecu89 said:


> Don't forget the body is a complex machine, I have often wondered if by excluding certain food groups it's possible that you leave your body unable to extract all the useful energy from what you eat. .
> 
> Having said that unless I see some really strong evidence indicating that's true I'm sticking with thinking that all diets work because you put less energy in than you use.


The first has been shown to be true if you substitute nutrition for energy. There have been recent studies that show that if you eat lettuce or salad without a dressing you get far less of the nutrition available than if you put in our dressing on it. So it's quite conceivable that you will get less energy in the same sort of way. 

The second, although very simplistic, is also probably true however the available energy does vary depending on the kind of food you are eating. Carbohydrates and sugars have been shown to be the easiest to digest and get the energy from. 

There appears to be evidence to show that insulin as well as assisting in the digestions of carbohydrates also resists fat being extracted from the body cells. Indeed with higher levels of insulin fats are stored in the body cells and the body will preferentially use carbohydrates for its energy source. If you think about it it makes a lot of sense because we used to store body fat when I was a surplus of food and when there were starvation situations or too little food the carbohydrate intake would drastically reduce the insulin levels would go down and then we were able to use the fat from our body cells.


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## JakeS (20 Sep 2012)

Dibs-h":3isnilqq said:


> With your "diet", for weight loss to be taking place - you must be in a calorie deficit. I can't see you being in a calorie surplus and loosing weight.



It's perfectly possible to be taking in more than the recommended GDA of calories every day and still be malnourished, depending on _what_ you're eating - which may well mean you start losing weight.

It's also possible to get the same calorific intake through vastly different weights of food - 1000 kcal of Kendal mint cake is significantly lighter than 1000 kcal of cheese, would it still make you weigh equally more all else being equal? Where would the extra mass come from?



I don't disagree that generally speaking, eating less => losing weight... but it's a damn sight more complicated than a simple count of calories-in versus calories-used.


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## wobblycogs (20 Sep 2012)

At it's most basic this must hold true: if calories eaten is less than calories used the difference will be made up by processing some of the bodies energy stores. If that statement isn't true then you must be able to generate energy from some other source. Since no human that I know of can photosynthesize or comes equipped with an Iron-Man style generator built in I'm confident in saying that you'll lose weight if you eat sufficiently small amounts.

Note though that does not preclude weight loss in the case where calories eaten is equal to or greater than calories used but some other factor must be at play. For example if a certain combination of foods prevents good energy absorption then you could still potentially lose weight. I think it's highly unlikely that any such effect would be very strong in a healthy individual though as nature would quickly select against such a failure of the digestive system.

How much you'd weigh after eating kendal mint cake or cheese is an interesting but I feel somewhat flawed question. Lets assume that the person has fasted before and expelled any waste products after. My guess is they may not weigh the same but not because of the weight of the things they ate but because of the way the body dealt with what they ate. The cake is sugar which is easy to process directly, the cheese is fat which is harder to process. In the case of the cheese only diet the body may preferentially choose to consume it's glycogen store rather than process the fat in the cheese which could cause a weight loss. The problem with the experiment though is that it doesn't represent a real diet. Over the longer term the body would exhaust it's glycogen store and be forced to start processing the fat. The end result (apart from malnutrition) would probably be the same body weight give or take a little.


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## graduate_owner (20 Sep 2012)

Hi everybody,
and well done those of you who are taking inches off your waists!!

To everyone else - you could do what a friend of mine did. Get a fridge magnet that says:

'I really try to lose weight, but it keeps finding me again'.

It won't help the BMI but it may put a smile on.

K


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2012)

or

"in everybody there is a thin person fighting to get out, but he/she can be subdued with a bit of chocolate cake"


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## Cegidfa (8 Oct 2012)

Diet is die with a 't'.... :shock: 

Diane and I watched the three programmes by Dr Mosely, and very thought provoking they were.

I being of a pragmatic nature came up with the following thought, based on films and pictures seen over the years.

No fat people came out of a prisoner of war camp - after WW2. :shock: 

The answer would seem to be simple - don't use a diet, because at some point it will end, and they generally aren't much fun. And if they are so efficient why are there so many?
We just slowly reduced our intake ... permanently. We still enjoy good food, and even eat cake, but the portion size is a lot less than it was. 
Alcohol is another problem area where many calories can creep in. By reducing intake of food and alcohol, Diane has lost two stone in just under a year  

However, saying is one thing, sticking to it is another. The big problem now is that we can't actually finish a restaurant meal as they are far too large 

Regards...Dick....whose waist is over two inches smaller than it was...and I don't feel ravenous.


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## Steve Maskery (8 Oct 2012)

You can afford to go to restaurants? Wow, there's posh. I've not been to a res since I can't remember when, and I used to go once or twice a month. Heigh ho.

I've lost 1st 2lb as of this morning. I need to lose at least another stone, but it's getting much slower as the weeks go by. I'm sure it must be easier if there are at least two of you. Cooking for one is difficult anyway, let alone if you are trying to create specialist meals of any kind. I love cooking, so I want interesting, varied meals. It's hard.
My fave is seafood spaghetti. With a small portion of spag and a good handful of varied seafood (king prawns, squid, mussels), with half a red chilli and a small drizzle of the best olive oil, I can have a quite delicious dinner for under 300 calories. But even I don't want that every day.

I have a friend I used to see every day. He was a bon viveur and enjoyed cooking as much as I do. I saw him last week, thin and skinny and with no appetite. Just old really. It was not a happy sight. here must be a happy medium.
S


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## Cegidfa (9 Oct 2012)

Hi Steve,

Well done on the weight loss. Don’t worry about the slowing down; think of it in a proportionate way. The last half stone is never going to fall off like the first stone did.

The biggest barrier is tuning the mind to think that a small meal is an adequate meal.
We found that if done slowly but surely, the brain will accommodate and adjust accordingly.
This morning we went into Shrewsbury to collect tickets for a Gypsy jazz evening (in the coffee house) and had an excellent coffee. In the past I would have had a pastry of some kind (and they did look good)’ all I felt was ...I just don’t need one, so I didn’t....no cake envy ensued.  

The other problem is a social one i.e. adjusting one’s friends to either think alike, or accept your decision to reduce your intake without the banter, which can get very waring. :evil: 

Living where we do, that wouldn’t be restaurants ‘plural’ that would be nearest pub singular. The nearest restaurant would be a 30 mile round trip away down dark country lanes. 

Whilst it is not appropriate to freeze everything, Diane often makes a larger batch and freezes it for later use. This makes it worth doing and saves time later as well.....err, food for thought.  

As to your friend, what you think of now as ‘skinny with no appetite’ might just change to ‘slender and elegant’ when you cut a svelte figure yourself. It really is all about mindset.

As to a happy medium, try Doris Stokes.....  Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Best wishes.........Dick.


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## Jacob (9 Oct 2012)

Losing weight is dead easy - just eat less. What's the problem? Everybody knows this and everybody knows which things are best/worst in terms of fatness/health.
That's all there is to it. 
Any questions?


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## Steve Maskery (9 Oct 2012)

Thank you, Jacob, I never realised it was so easy. The scales have fallen from my eyes and I am now an enlightened being.
S


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## SBJ (10 Oct 2012)

Steve Maskery":pgkfdhzg said:


> Thank you, Jacob, I never realised it was so easy. The scales have fallen from my eyes and I am now an enlightened being.
> S



Jacob is right, you can dress it up anyway you like but dieting for weight loss revolves around one factor - reducing net calorie intake.


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## doctor Bob (10 Oct 2012)

I agree, every time someone says they cannot lose weight through calorie control it's because they are cheating either knowingly or unwittingly.
I have seen loads of programs where people can't lose weight on a calorie controlled diet, when followed by secret cameras their calorie intake is usually higher than they write down, due to portion size or lies.

Dieting is hard work, I am 12 weeks in to a vicious diet, it is not fun or likeable but there again I never expected it to be.

Good luck to everyone.


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## Jacob (10 Oct 2012)

doctor Bob":1fy3aozs said:


> .....
> Dieting is hard work, I am 12 weeks in to a vicious diet, it is not fun or likeable but there again I never expected it to be.
> 
> ....


Don't agree. No reason why it shouldn't be likeable. Just eat less food (especially fattening stuff) but make sure that what you do eat is tasty and good quality. Have a small fillet steak instead of a large sirloin, etc. etc.
There's a sort of hysteria about it - as though going into a coffee bar and _not having a cake_ :roll: is a great personal achievement!
Ridiculous. Pull yourselves together, snap out of it!! Think of those African children who have discovered the secret of slimming. They are not struggling over not eating cakes.

PS feeling hungry several times a day is normal, but I think a lot of people have never experienced this.


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## Jacob (10 Oct 2012)

Cegidfa":2u4egdos said:


> .......The big problem now is that we can't actually finish a restaurant meal as they are far too large ......


We got into the habit of asking for one meal and two plates, in certain eateries. Nobody minds, you just tell them that you are both on a diet. 
We like fish n chips now and then. One normal portion of chips is enough for four people. Either share them or bin them. Sea gulls like them. And dump the batter. This can put you off the fish as it often turns out to be just grey slime, if you don't know your chippy! Greek chippies are good on fish in my experience.

PS Good restaurants often serve small but better quality meals - but you don't know this until you've tried it. This can mean that also having a starter and a pudding are not over the top (except the price) and you can squeeze in a few pints of beer afterwards! 
Go up market for better food, spend the same (or a little more) but eat less.


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## doctor Bob (10 Oct 2012)

Jacob":1ydaayo5 said:


> doctor Bob":1ydaayo5 said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...



......... you have no idea of what I'm trying to achieve.

I need to lose fat, gain muscle and hit a lightweight threshold (11st, 5lb) within 14 weeks, in order to enter a sporting competition. Fanny arseing around with your idea of diets would be pointless.

I'm eating 3000 calories a day at present, mainly protein, fruit, and simple carbs.... I burn of at least 1500 in exercise per day.


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## Jacob (10 Oct 2012)

doctor Bob":1m6ciszr said:


> Jacob":1m6ciszr said:
> 
> 
> > doctor Bob":1m6ciszr said:
> ...


TBH I've no idea what a calorie means in terms of food. But 14 weeks? Shouldn't be a prob unless you really are a very large person.
If you make your diet enjoyable it's more attainable. Think oysters, champagne, caviar on little bits of brown bread, the occasional grape. Sushi.
Cycling is good. Cycle to oyster bars. Cycle to the butcher for a quarter pound fillet steak. Then cycle off again for a mushroom, an onion, a potato and a bit of horseradish.


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## wobblycogs (10 Oct 2012)

I'd love to know what you're training for Dr Bob and how much exercise your doing to burn off the number of calories I'm eating in a day. Fair play though, I'm getting tired just thinking about it.


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## doctor Bob (10 Oct 2012)

Jacob your post tells me you haven't got a clue about sports diet.


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## doctor Bob (10 Oct 2012)

wobblycogs":3c32nlrs said:


> I'd love to know what you're training for Dr Bob and how much exercise your doing to burn off the number of calories I'm eating in a day. Fair play though, I'm getting tired just thinking about it.



Rowing mainly, averaging 15km per day, plus running and circuits.


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## Jacob (11 Oct 2012)

doctor Bob":1v1m33cj said:


> Jacob your post tells me you haven't got a clue about sports diet.


I cycled Lands End to John o Groats a few years ago. My sports diet was based on all day breakfasts and it seemed to work.
I'm fairly fit* (well I was until I did my knee in) and not overweight so I obviously know more about sports diets than you do Bobby!
Good luck with the training.

*cycling hilly 100 km or more most weekends, and long distance touring.


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## Chems (11 Oct 2012)

Ignored background chatter amidst Jacbobs trolling .... Ignored background chatter amidst Jacbobs trolling .... Ignored background chatter amidst Jacbobs trolling


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## doctor Bob (11 Oct 2012)

Jacob":2x9paol5 said:


> and not overweight so I obviously know more about sports diets than you do Bobby!
> Good luck with the training.



See your not listening again .... I'm not overweight and never have been, if Bradley wiggins was a stone heavier would you call him overweight, I need to be under a certain weight to make lightweight otherwise I'm up against 19st guys which would be silly.

How do you get on riding that Penny farthing these days.


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## Jacob (11 Oct 2012)

doctor Bob":7ekcadk1 said:


> Jacob":7ekcadk1 said:
> 
> 
> > and not overweight so I obviously know more about sports diets than you do Bobby!
> ...


What will you be doing against these fat blokes? Tossing the caber or something? (You have to wear a skirt!)


> How do you get on riding that Penny farthing these days.


It's one of these. Titanium! That's not actually me in the photo but there are similarities. If anybody is interested don't go for the Sram Apex gears they are rubbish.


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## Steve Maskery (11 Oct 2012)

Hi Bob
Good luck with your (to me, rather bonkers  ) endeavour.
FWIW, I climbed Chrome Hill on Sunday and thought I was about to die. It was exertion beyond the point of enjoyment, to be honest.
S


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## Jacob (11 Oct 2012)

Steve Maskery":3of6rc5l said:


> Hi Bob
> Good luck with your (to me, rather bonkers  ) endeavour.
> FWIW, I climbed Chrome Hill on Sunday and thought I was about to die. It was exertion beyond the point of enjoyment, to be honest.
> S


You shudda dropped in Steve. You must have passed very close to my place.
NB Chrome Hill is more of a 'knoll' than a hill. We pass it often, after a stop at the Quiet Woman for a pork pie and a pint, or a stop at the cafe near Flash where they do very good pork pies. Sometimes plunge down Cave Dale on the way to Crowdecote, for a pork pie.


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## Steve Maskery (11 Oct 2012)

Jacob":1vdwqqvw said:


> It's not about the tools



It's obviously about the pork pies, Jacob ( and I agree you can't beat a good one).
Now look what you've done. I feel hungry and I'm supposed to be fasting today.
Bummer.
S


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## Jacob (11 Oct 2012)

http://www.thegoodpubguide.co.uk/pub/vi ... n-SK17-0BU

http://www.flashbarstores.co.uk/

http://thepack-horseinn.co.uk/

Oddly - on the pork pie circuit you pass Glutton Bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKgdJTNi_OA Is that Chrome Hill behind them?


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## Steve Maskery (11 Oct 2012)

We did walk through The Quiet Woman, but it wasn't open until lunchtime.
S


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## Jacob (11 Oct 2012)

Here's an odd bit of film, saved by the landscape - Chrome and Parkhouse hills.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKgdJTNi_OA


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## Jacob (14 Oct 2012)

Buy only Russian Alphabetti Spaghetti as there are only 22 letters in the Cyrillic alphabet. 
Just watch the pounds fall off!

(J Shuttleworth)


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## Steve Maskery (14 Oct 2012)

Ghastly man4
Shuttleworth and Count Arthur Strong. I cannot understand how R4 commissioned either. They don't do anything for me except make me turn the wireless off. Simply not funny. Either that or middle age has deprived me of my sense of humour.
S


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## Jacob (14 Oct 2012)

I've been a Shuttleworth fan since he was 'Jilted John' - here he is with a brief intro from pervy Saville who I always thought was an unpleasant perv from day one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTKORcr1jhY


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