# Is this price right?



## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

Hi all
I have no experience with metal working at all so please bare with me. 
I am trying to make a bending iron for guitar sides and my plan is to mount a light bulb fixture to an base and cover it with a pipe. 
I need a piece of metal pipe about 7 inches in length and four inches in diameter with a kid welder onto the tube. I have approached one local welder and was quoted £20 for this piece of pipe with the lid welder on and I just wanted to see if that price sounds about right. 

Thanks everyone


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## Wuffles (17 Mar 2016)

Are you happy with the price? You're just lucky he or she has that size of pipe lying about, or it could cost quite a bit more, you can't generally buy steel in tiny lengths you see.

I'm confused about the light bulb fixture and assume you mean lid and not kid. Is this to warm things up?


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## n0legs (17 Mar 2016)

Yup.
Just doing it quicly from the Metals4u site, the 4'' pipe's over half the price you've been given. Then there's cutting out a piece for a lid and finally welding it all together.


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## Kalimna (17 Mar 2016)

Why is there a lid on it? If it is for bending guitar sides, then I'm not sure I understand the reason for it. Something you may find helpful, if your welder has the equipment to do it, is to introduce deformation to the pipe (squashed in one direction). This will give you a pipe of differing radii and make the different side radii easier to bend. If the pipe remains at 4" diameter, then you are almost limited to 4" as a minimum radius to bend - and this is much larger than some of the radii found on acoustic guitar (or ukulele) sides.
Cheers,
Adam


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

Hi
I will be making a guitar bending iron to bend the sides and purfling. I will mount a lightbulb fixture to a bit of plywood and then place the tube over the light bulb to heat the wood. 
Ideally I would love to get a piece with the multiple radii but I am not sure how I would go about that so will stick with the simple one for now. 

Thanks for the advice.


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## xy mosian (17 Mar 2016)

Hi, my first bending iron was a piece of scrap exhaust pipe if that helps.
xy


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## esox20 (17 Mar 2016)

£20 sounds quite good for the steel and his time to do it....


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## Kalimna (17 Mar 2016)

One way to deform the pipe would be with a large vice - perhaps something a welder might have access to? It doesn't have to be pretty - just work well.

Adam


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## profchris (17 Mar 2016)

Scrap exhaust pipe is good - I use part of a trailer jockey wheel and don't bother covering the end.

Rather than those tiny brackets, why not do as I did - drill four holes around one end of the tube, cut between then with a hacksaw for an inch, and then hammer the resulting flanges out. Bolt to board.

I hacked a hole in my board and use a cheap heat gun to power it. It heats up in seconds and is powerful enough to get the heat needed for difficult woods. I've found light bulbs barely produce enough heat.

Total cost including the heat gun around £15.


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## Wuffles (17 Mar 2016)

I'm interested in this guitar chatter, any fun videos to watch of these contraptions working?


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

Yes there are:
http://youtu.be/-py9FGKpYW0

http://youtu.be/VgcCPaUq5us

They are links to what I am hoping to end up with. Other people use a blow torch or a heat gun but I prefer the idea of using a light bulb.


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## Wuffles (17 Mar 2016)

Michelle_K":2nzhbb2q said:


> Other people use a blow torch or a heat gun but I prefer the idea of using a light bulb.



LED yeah?































Only joking.


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## Kalimna (17 Mar 2016)

Daft question here - is it still possible to get the high wattage incandescent bulbs required for a bending iron?

Adam


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

Apparently there are some places that still sell them. I think that they are sold at trade type places according to what I have read.


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## Wuffles (17 Mar 2016)

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index ... index.html


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

I just got another quote for the piece of pipe. £150!!


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## profchris (17 Mar 2016)

Michelle, I honestly think you might struggle with light bulbs to get enough heat. My £10 heat gun has 2 settings, hot and really hot, which gives me enough temperature control. I've built a light bulb bender, and it was feeble for ukulele sides using 2 x 100w bulbs.

Plus the heat gun just pokes in the back when in use, so I can take it out and use it as ... well, a heat gun too.


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## Wuffles (17 Mar 2016)

Michelle_K":1ez243xg said:


> I just got another quote for the piece of pipe. £150!!



Which proved everyone who has commented so far correct. Were you not happy with £20 or had you already asked someone else and were waiting to hear back?


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

It's not that I wasn't happy with paying £20 I just wanted to double check that's a standard price as I've never approached a welding company before so wasn't sure what price was right. I contacted a few places to get quotes only two got back to me. One at £20 and one at £150


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## porker (17 Mar 2016)

I think the main issue is that it's a small job. If you are a cheapskate like me I would find an exhaust or metal working place and ask if I could rummage in their offcuts bin for an offcut of pipe. Does it really need to be welded? Is that to keep the heat in?


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## deema (17 Mar 2016)

Heat pipes only normally need an end welded on if your using a burner / heat gun so you have a 'safe' side to work from and avoid the agony of getting burnt. With a light bulb your not in such peril. 

Have you thought of a flexible electric heat mat (at least the same size as the wooden side) sandwiched between two very flexible metal plates which is first heated up with your guitar side and whist the low voltage heat Matt is still on placed on a wooden former and clamped to the right shape?

The main advanteges are you have almost no danger of scorching the wood and you get a consistent shape for both sides / subsequent instruments. There are videos on uTube of this technique.


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## Michelle_K (17 Mar 2016)

I have thought of the heat blanket but I don't really have the space or skill to make a side mould for it. A bending iron would be a lot easier. I have thought about just getting a bit of pipe maybe I will reconsider that until I can afford a bending iron.


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## profchris (17 Mar 2016)

Bending on a pipe is quite easy after the first few attempts - it's a matter of feel, so you'll crease some wood and scorch other bits before you get it right.

I suggest buying some 1.5mm ply cheaply from eBay to practice getting the feel. 2 inch strips are just like ukulele sides. I use a wet/damp rag on the pipe to provide some steam, which helps get the heat into the wood quicker (but some species hate steam, so I usually start dry if I don't know and see how it goes).

The other thing about bending sides is runout - if your wood has appreciable runout it *will* start to disintegrate on bends. Flat sawn with little runout is better than vertical grain with runout, though flat sawn tends to cup. Once you've bent a few failures, you will learn rapidly about wood selection! Using a metal backing strip helps - I have a piece of aluminium rescued from a dead caravan.

And if you're making ukes, sign up for Ukulele Cosmos (where you'll find a lot from me and from better builders) and Ukulele Underground - both have luthiers sections full of useful tips and ideas.


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## chaoticbob (18 Mar 2016)

Michelle, I think the answer to your 'is this price right' question is probably no. 20 quid is too cheap for a fabricator earning his crust from his trade! 150 on the other hand is taking the mick.
Looking at the vids you linked to (interesting stuff - I know nowt about bending wood, but something about metal) I'm not convinced that the end cap needs to be welded. The guy in the second vid openly confesses that he is a pro welder by day, so naturally that's the way he'd go. But as there's no stress on the part, and it doesn't seem that it's going to get red hot, maybe you should think about other ways of keeping the heat in - perhaps a wooden plug on the end of the tube would do?
Robin.


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## t8hants (18 Mar 2016)

As a fabricator welder I think £20 is spot on for a small job.
I spent 25 years in a small workshop that was plagued by walk in small jobs.
There I am working on something large and complicated, in comes the punter with his small job, I immediately loose 10 minutes plus while he explains what he wants often with unnecessary background which I don't need to know. 
A price is quoted - he walks away - I have lost at least 10 minutes for no reward, I then loose further time trying to recapture my train of thought - worse still - I make a mistake because my thought train was derailed, which eventually costs me even more time and materials to correct.
Even if the quote is accepted, all of the above can and has happened, at the same time I have had two phone calls, one of which was for PPI, another waste of time.
In fact I worked out it cost the little firm I worked for £5, for me just to pick up the phone.


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