# Yet another shedshop Mike's way. Ish



## aphillippe

Long time lurker embarking on a shed build and thought I'd start a build thread. 

In my previous house I had an off the shelf 14x8 'heavy duty' shed that acted as a workshop, timber store, bike storage, garden storage, etc. etc. I moved last year to a larger property and while we were looking around, one of the things on my list of requirements was a decent workshop space. The house we ended up buying has no workshop but plenty of garden. So permission and budget was negotiated, planning permission was sought (Guernsey planning permission is a little stricter in certain ways than UK) and a couple of weeks ago the build started.

So budget and WAF will stretch to a 20x10 timber frame on a concrete base. Not enormous but twice the size as my previous shed and, crucially, entirely devoted to workshop space. I'm planning on following Mike's design mostly, concrete base, two courses of bricks, floating kingspan/chipboard floor over the concrete, timber frame, OSB inside, wrap and cladding outside. I'm thinking of following the design of my previous shed for the roof, gabled end wall framing, then two trusses and six framed roof panels that will be easy for me to lift and slot on the trusses. Then onduline sheets or EDPM, haven't decided yet.

I've got an overall budget of £5.5k, which is going to be pushed very hard. Guernsey is not cheap for building materials at the best of times but timber prices lately mean I'm going to have to get creative. I'll be building mostly at weekends in between full time job, three kids and a dog so progress it likely to be slow but I'd like to get it up and done (or at least water tight) over the summer. Time will tell...


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## Fidget

Good luck, looking forward to seeing your progress


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## Fitzroy

Super! Take lots of photos, we all love those. Personally I’d go epdm, I found it a very easy and cost effective route. 

I kept the build cost down on my build by doing more of the work myself, slowed the build down but lowers cost. I bought double glazed units but made the frame last myself. I bought rough sawn larch boards from a local saw mill for cladding, picked them up myself and put them through the Thicknesser. Many hours of work, but my time is ‘free’. I also surfed GumTree continually for materials that were surplus and cheap. 

Fitz


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## aphillippe

progress so far...

I don't have a good photo of the site before starting. There's an area around the side of the house that had two 10x8 sheds. One of them was rotten so that came down. Needed a gap in the fence where the shed was filling, then the area clearing and digging down. I was assuming there would just be soil and rocks etc but ended up finding a nice flat level compacted bed about two inches down through the soft top soil, about where I was planning on laying hardcore. It took some effort to get a spade through but was about 6 inches deep, a perfect bed to pour on to. I knew the area was used decades ago for the local horticultural industry so this must have been the bases of the old glass houses. Bargain, saved me a couple hundred quid and a lot of work. 

So, starting on the form, I used 18mm ply, cut to 15cm strips with 3x2 timber spikes every so often. Original plan was 100 overall, thickening to 150 around the edges. The above changed that plan, since I had a nice level base already laid. The site is slightly sloped from the back right corner to the front left, about 10 cm over the 7m diagonal, so not too much to worry about. So the bottom of the front of the slab is about level with ground level, and about 10cm down at the back, leaving the top about 5cm proud at the back. Probably should have been more in hindsight but I can always dig out around there if needed. I was planning on supporting the form with dirt so wasn't too worried about strength of the form.

Please ignore the messy site, I have a large garden but a small WAF budget for spillover of my 'dirty building stuff' into the main area of the garden. Organisation and tidiness are a work in progress 

Form in progress...






Form complete...





Filling with sand blind and levelling/flattening (child number 3 helping out)...





Finished sand blind and DPM in place to be rolled out ready for concrete...





Concrete going in...





I was very lucky to have a mate available (pictured) to help with the pour and levelling. This was my first concrete pour and mostly went smoothly. A couple of issues, nothing too major. I used a straight 3x2 to screed and then a home made bull float to get a reasonable finish. Not perfect but flat, smooth and level and will be covered by insulation and flooring anyway


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## Spectric

What no steel mesh, cheap as chips but can make a big difference to cracking.


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## aphillippe

The concrete guy said the base was solid enough and had been down for long enough that reinforcing the concrete wouldn't do much. Probably should have belted and braced it but I took his advice


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## Adam W.

It'll be alright.


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## Cooper

My shed workshop was a much more modest project but one thing I'm really pleased It did was to have a significant overhang/porch over the entrance and an overhang and gutters at the sides. The walls and door apart from in the most stormy weather are always more or less dry and still in very good condition. I also have water buts which are useful for my beans. On so many sheds the water from the roof runs down the walls, which can't be good.


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## Sheptonphil

Great progress, love these build WIPs.
keep the pics coming, a great record for you, and a superb source of information for others thinking of this type of build.


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## aphillippe

Small amount of progress this week. I unwrapped the concrete base and had a look around it. Not perfect but it'll do. Timber and bricks have arrived. Bricks will be this weekend's job.


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## aphillippe

First question. How far up should the damp proof membrane go? As far as I see there are five options;

trim it off at the bottom of the concrete base
trim it off at the top of the concrete/bottom of the bricks
trim it off roughly at ground level
leave it go all the way up, over the bricks and tuck under DPC
trim it wherever. You're totally over thinking this whole thing and it doesn't make any difference
I'm discounting number 4 as that seems ridiculous. So I'm thinking number 1 or 3?


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## shed9

Watching this one. 

Couple of notes from my own experience. I think the proposed initial budget is very tight and will be very surprised if you end up in that area at the end of the build. Secondly, check suppliers of Onduline products as availability is not great at the moment with Onduline direct sometimes being the only viable source. Their shipping costs need to be factored in if you go this route as they are not cheap by any stretch.

Finally got my restart of my own build together over the last weekend. I poured the initial concrete a few years back but life took over and for what it's worth I trimmed the DPM with about 12" spare around so I have options if need be. I have most of the materials already but had the choice of steel or timber frame so I built a test workshop last year (on raised timber structure) of 8'x16' from timber to check if I was comfortable with that main building design - which I am. That is a timber frame, wrapped in Onuditiss Air95 and clad in metal on the outer and 18mm ply for internal walls. My new workshop build is 14'x25' which will again follow a similar design but with Tyvek products (standard and Supro) to wrap it as they have a longer pre clad life than Onduline's wrap. My budget is fairly high but then I've ordered bespoke aluminium doors and windows to cover over 9m2 of glass of that all important light and that is over half the budget in itself.

The reason for the long blurb up there ^ is not to hijack your thread, more to point out I'm doing a similar build along the same time frame as yourself. We may be able to learn from each other in the process.


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## Fitzroy

Are you using the slab as your finished floor or are you putting in an insulated floating floor?


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## paisawood

aphillippe said:


> First question. How far up should the damp proof membrane go? As far as I see there are five options;
> 
> trim it off at the bottom of the concrete base
> trim it off at the top of the concrete/bottom of the bricks
> trim it off roughly at ground level
> leave it go all the way up, over the bricks and tuck under DPC
> trim it wherever. You're totally over thinking this whole thing and it doesn't make any difference


Trim the DPC at ground level. As shown on Mike's drawing there should be a 50mm gap between ground level and the first course of bricks to ensure that the concrete remains dry.


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## aphillippe

Fitzroy said:


> Are you using the slab as your finished floor or are you putting in an insulated floating floor?


insulated floating floor is the plan. Don't fancy standing on cold concrete for hours. I don't know how I'm going to finish the floor at the threshold yet. Future problem


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## aphillippe

shed9 said:


> I think the proposed initial budget is very tight



Yes, very tight. I'm aiming for a 10/15 year lifespan minimum as we're planning on moving around then to downsize when the kids disappear  so there are a few concessions I can make. And I'm doing as much of the work myself as I can to keep labour costs to 0. But even then I think I might need a bit more budget. We'll see.


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## Fitzroy

So long as the ground around the slab does not contact the edge of the slab the only route for moisture to enter the slab will be rain splashing on to the edge of the slab. This will happen up to c. 20cm and is the purpose of the brick courses to keep the wood out the splash zone. 

With the slab as the floor I’d perhaps be thinking about other measures to avoid splashing water wicking into the slab. However with a insulated floor and following mikes guidance in this area. If wicking were to occur you’d never be bothered by it. 

As others as have advised trim DPM at ground level and avoid and earth touching the slab edge.


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## clogs

before u get to far with materials look at insulated steel panels roof and walls.....
my new shed (160m2) will get them.....
I have to buy new as so far there's no used stuff available on this island....but for you the UK is easy shipping distance....
reasons, easy to fit, lightweight, no maintainence....will last almost forever.....
and when it comes to selling up it's an asset not some 1/2 rotten wooden shed....
not saying ur's will be but it's what prospective buyers will say/look at.......
My windows will be used double glaze'd units.......
on the houses I've bought n sold where a steel shed was built I more than doubled the cost as profit ....
a def plus point.....a good way to get the use out of it and make money...


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## aphillippe

clogs said:


> before u get to far with materials look at insulated steel panels roof and walls.....


Is that just using the panels as loadbearing walls? Or mounting to the outside of a timber frame? I was looking in to them a while ago after watching a couple of youtube videos but I'm not familiar, and there are no local suppliers to speak to. So I chickened out


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## MikeJhn

aphillippe said:


> The concrete guy said the base was solid enough and had been down for long enough that reinforcing the concrete wouldn't do much. Probably should have belted and braced it but I took his advice


This concrete guy, was he the lorry driver or a Structural Engineer?


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## aphillippe

I laid out the bricks last night, just to check quantity and layout. Looks ok so far…


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## aphillippe

Also spent some time in Fusion...


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## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> This concrete guy, was he the lorry driver or a Structural Engineer?


The owner of the concrete firm. Not a lorry driver, not a structural engineer (as far as I know) but a guy who has poured probably hundreds of slabs. Certainly many more than I have. In hindsight I probably should have put some steel in but it's a bit late now


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## Inspector

Can I ask why the diagonal bracing between the studs? The OSB is more than strong enough to brace the structure, you won't be complicating the insulation or wiring installation and save a little on wood not needed.

Pete


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## Adam W.

Don't stress about the slab, the shed weighs nothing.


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## MikeJhn

Ground erosion effects foundations, as does thermal stress, it's not just about the weight.

I note from your sketch above you have stepped the stud work back from the brickwork, it should be flush or even overhangs so the outer skin laps down onto/past the bricks and forms a drip to allow rain to run off, otherwise you will form a trap for water on the edge of the outer skin between it and the brickwork, if you can form an angle on the bottom edge of the skin material to help prevent holding the water.


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## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Ground erosion effects foundations, as does thermal stress, it's not just about the weight.
> 
> I note from your sketch above you have stepped the stud work back from the brickwork, it should be flush or even overhangs so the outer skin laps down onto/past the bricks and forms a drip to allow rain to run off, otherwise you will form a trap for water on the edge of the outer skin between it and the brickwork, if you can form an angle on the bottom edge of the skin material to help prevent holding the water.


Yes. It’s not just about the weight of the shed. If there’s ground movement the tension forces from the weight of the concrete might be enough to crack it.

re the step back, this is (one of) the problem(s) with cheaping out on thinner timber. I’m using 3x2, nominal 63mm, leaving me 37mm gap compared to the width of the brick. Either I have the water problem you mentioned or I push the studwork out but then have to batten out the interior face of the studs to line with OSB. Or have a weird kick out at brick level. I was planning on having an arris as per Mike and BDT’s builds that would push the dpc out to the brick line and then back and under the wrap.


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## aphillippe

Inspector said:


> Can I ask why the diagonal bracing between the studs? The OSB is more than strong enough to brace the structure, you won't be complicating the insulation or wiring installation and save a little on wood not needed.
> 
> Pete


I don’t want OSB sitting out in the open for the (potentially long) period until the building is watertight. Seemed easier to just stick a cross brace in there and not have any OSB on site until it’s all up and watertight. I’m not entirely married to that idea though


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## Adam W.

Presumably you compacted the ground properly first. If you did, then it's the same as a driveway but without the car.

If it was a brick house, you might have a problem, but not with a studwork shed and it's highly unlikely that you will get much frost heave in Guernsey before the next ice age.


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## MikeJhn

aphillippe said:


> re the step back, this is (one of) the problem(s) with cheaping out on thinner timber. I’m using 3x2, nominal 63mm, leaving me 37mm gap compared to the width of the brick. Either I have the water problem you mentioned or I push the studwork out but then have to batten out the interior face of the studs to line with OSB. Or have a weird kick out at brick level. I was planning on having an arris as per Mike and BDT’s builds that would push the dpc out to the brick line and then back and under the wrap.


You could always batten out the studwork, roofing battens are cheap enough, line the studwork with a breathable membrane batten over and external clad, using ring shank SS nails.

What are you externally cladding with?


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## aphillippe

Next question. String from corner to corner along the long edge at the front is about 2cm out from the edge of the concrete slab. So, would you go up to the edge and have a wonky wall, go out to the string line and have an overhang (which I suppose could be packed out underneath with some additional concrete later) or go somewhere in the middle?


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## aphillippe

Or I guess in hindsight, lay it all out properly before you start and set your corners in by 2cm so a straight line clips the front edge of the concrete. But that ship has sailed somewhat now


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## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> You could always batten out the studwork, roofing battens are cheap enough, line the studwork with a breathable membrane batten over and external clad, using ring shank SS nails.
> 
> What are you externally cladding with?


Not decided yet. Either feather edge or 30cm upvc panels. The panels are about half the cost of any timber cladding I can get here. But they look butt ugly.


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## MikeJhn

Do not even think about a wonky wall, it will cause all sorts of problems along the way with lining up the timber studwork, wall panels and even the roof, I would either hack back the concrete slab or oversail the brickwork.

I would also bring the DPC up underneath the brickwork and roof tile or some such the exposed DPC on the outside of the concrete face, I assume the DPC is not UV stable as most aren't.


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## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Do not even think about a wonky wall, it will cause all sorts of problems along the way with lining up the timber studwork, wall panels and even the roof, I would either hack back the concrete slab or oversail the brickwork.
> 
> I would also bring the DPC up underneath the brickwork and roof tile or some such the exposed DPC on the outside of the concrete face, I assume the DPC is not UV stable as most aren't.



Straight brickwork would overhang the concrete by 2cm. I assume that’s the preferred option.

re the membrane, I was planning on cutting it off at ground level later


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## aphillippe

todays’s progress…




Lessons learnt:

I do not like bricklaying
I am not very good at bricklaying
When the wife tells you to get the ‘nice, rustic looking’ flaky, inconsistent, wonky, handmade bricks, just say no
3D printed line holders work quite nicely
I do not like bricklaying
I’m actually a little surprised that my first attempt at laying bricks kinda looks straight and reasonably solid. A couple more hours tomorrow finishing off the second course and I’m on to the sole plate and DPC.


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## Jameshow

A little trick I found with laying bricks is to put a row of say 4ft down put a 4x2 on top and knock down gets them nice and uniform.. 

I put the framework to the outer edge of the bricks to keep the rain off the bricks and to give you more space inside.


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## Scruples

As far as wiring goes, I used 100mm plastic trunking right around the inside of the shed at working height. I'm pleased I did, since I've added. and moved, sockets over time and it was so easy to do. I ran a 25mm trunking along the top of the house-side wall for ethernet and extra-low voltage stuff. If you use foil insulation then it might an idea to run an ethernet cable from your hub to the shed. Wifi won't be any good inside the shed, otherwise. I find Alexa useful for music and confirming the odd measurement. (Alexa, what's a third of 672?). 

You should have enough CBs in the consumer unit with the RCD to supply the ring, the lights and as many 16A supplies as necessary plus one extra for the future. I found a 40A supply cable to be enough for my needs.


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## MikeJhn

aphillippe said:


> Straight brickwork would overhang the concrete by 2cm. I assume that’s the preferred option.
> 
> re the membrane, I was planning on cutting it off at ground level later


Straight brickwork overhanging the concrete would be best.

Trouble with cutting the membrane off at ground level if not finished properly it would provide a path for water to penetrate under the concrete, surprising how much water/rain runs down the outside face of a building, its not called a raft foundation for nothing.


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## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Straight brickwork overhanging the concrete would be best.
> 
> Trouble with cutting the membrane off at ground level if not finished properly it would provide a path for water to penetrate under the concrete, surprising how much water/rain runs down the outside face of a building, its not called a raft foundation for nothing.


Makes sense. So this might be a stupid question but what does ‘finished properly’ look like?


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## MikeJhn

Turned up and sealed against the concrete, or paved over with a fall away from the building, "NB", it's always a problem with a raft slab without a separate strip footing for the brickwork to enable the DPM to be turned up the wall internally.

NB we then have the problem of ensuring the paving does not provide a path for water to penetrate under the slab, flexible joint between the paving and concrete, a decent overhang of the roof and guttering will help.


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## Woody Alan

I may be wrong and happy to be corrected or open discussion, but I thought Mikes advice re the damp membrane under the concrete was to cut it away and expose the edges of the slab. The theory being the slab retains a level of moisture for a long time and its only egress will be by the edges, yes it will get a little damp when rainy but will dry out as well the same as a driveway. As long as there is a membrane between slab and structure then all will be well.


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## Adam W.

Er, well, that would possibly let moisture in through the edge of the slab.

Normal construction seals the slab from any moisture by using a dpm lapped with a dpc. If it was mine, I'd just seal the slab and create a dpc at the same time by rolling a membrane over the top of the slab and lap under the dpc at the bricks. But it's a cack handed way of doing it just to avoid digging a shallow strip foundation and doing it the 'normal' way and it also requires screed to protect the dpm.


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## aphillippe

Yesterday:





brickwork done. Not pretty but should be good enough.

this evening, sole plates cut…


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## aphillippe

Had a quote from my local builders merchants for the 2x4s for the roof trusses. I don’t need much of it (I chose 3x2 for most of the frame) but I couldn’t believe £9.60 per metre, ex. VAT. Obviously timber prices are high at the moment but not that high surely? What’s it like in the UK at the moment?

I rang around and found cheaper (£6.50 for 2.4m lengths from magnet trade counter) so will be picking them up later today.


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## MikeJhn

Hmm truss's that brings back memories.


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## aphillippe

Interesting. I'd love to get in to truss design to really maximise space as in your example. Playing it safe for the shed


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## Spectric

Adam W. said:


> Don't stress about the slab, the shed weighs nothing.


But what about the contents, the mass of the shed will be spread across the slab but the contents will be point loads.



Scruples said:


> You should have enough CBs in the consumer unit with the RCD to supply the ring, the lights and as many 16A supplies as necessary plus one extra for the future. I found a 40A supply cable to be enough for my needs.


Don't forget the regs and your means of earthing, and don't be historical, use radials like in any industrial enviroment because rings are old hat.  You will always be safer getting an electrician to ensure your installation is safe, there is no such thing as a 40A supply cable. In basic terms you determine the absolute max current that will be drawn and then find the right size cable that can supply that current over the length of the run whilst maintaining a voltage drop within 5% of the supply.


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## aphillippe

Spectric said:


> But what about the contents, the mass of the shed will be spread across the slab but the contents will be point loads.
> 
> 
> Don't forget the regs and your means of earthing, and don't be historical, use radials like in any industrial enviroment because rings are old hat. You will always be safer getting an electrician to ensure your installation is safe, there is no such thing as a 40A supply cable. In basic terms you determine the absolute max current that will be drawn and then find the right size cable that can supply that current over the length of the run whilst maintaining a voltage drop within 5% of the supply.


I’m getting a sparky in to do all the electrics. I can wire a plug but not much more. Happy to bear the cost to keep things safe


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## Molynoox

Nice fusion model 
I know you are going for thinner wood to save cost but your headers look quite undersized to me. Don't know what your roof covering is and hence if it's heavy or not but you don't want your doors and windows getting compressed from above as they won't open properly.
Interesting build thread, enjoying the progress 
Martin


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## aphillippe

Molynoox said:


> Nice fusion model
> I know you are going for thinner wood to save cost but your headers look quite undersized to me. Don't know what your roof covering is and hence if it's heavy or not but you don't want your doors and windows getting compressed from above as they won't open properly.
> Interesting build thread, enjoying the progress
> Martin


OSB, membrane and then probably onduline (or equivalent) bituminise sheeting. Or maybe EDPM. Haven’t decided. Onduline is available locally and will be about £350 to cover the roof. EPDM looks better functionally but is a new material to me and not available locally. Shipping to a small island in the middle of a big puddle can be tricky sometimes. 

Re the headers, it’s worrying me too. I got my window the other day. It’s from the window company’s ’graveyard’ to keep costs down. Pretty much the only thing they had at close to the right size. 1800 wide. So the above configuration for headers is not going to work. I have some 4x4 fence posts sitting around that would be better. Between that and the (two) top plates, there would be very little deflection. And we don’t exactly get a lot of snow down here.


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## aphillippe

Progress through the week and yesterday…

I didn’t get any photos but through the week I mortared in the sole plates and DPC. Strapped down the soleplates to the brick (I was going to cast the straps into the concrete but didn’t really have time during the pour). 

Starting to build the frame…



Side and back frames done…





Got a nice bonus this year so treated myself…


This thing is not light. Not in any way practical for a job site. But boy can it chop wood. 5-6 studs at a time makes the process go a bit quicker.



Lessons learned…

Measure twice cut once is a thing for a reason. But don’t just measure twice. Think about things a bit more before cutting. I failed to realise that the back frames were intended to sit under the gable end top plates and cut them to the same height and didn’t realise until they were all done and ready to be installed. Doh. Still at least they were long and not short.

Load bearing pieces should always sit on a supporting stud, not be screwed into the side of a stud. I cocked up the apex of the gables. Should have had the ‘rafter’ piece sitting on the king post rather than screwed to it. Again, think first. It was ‘proper’ in the plan so no idea why I did it wrong. I’m thinking that, since that whole face will be supported with OSB it will still be fine.

Today’s job will be to finish the front wall and do the roof trusses. And any time left will be starting on the roof.


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## Adam W.

Spectric said:


> Snip/
> But what about the contents, the mass of the shed will be spread across the slab but the contents will be point loads.
> /snip



It's too late, he's already poured the slab.

Anyway, the Kingspan and panel floor will distribute the load. The only other solution is a steel reinforced screed on top, but it looks like that's unlikely to happen.

I've got my Vicmarc directly on an un-reinforced limecrete floor without any issues, and that weighs around the 400kg mark.

Plus, you don't seem to have lapped the DPM and DPC. Is there a reason for that ?


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## Molynoox

aphillippe said:


> OSB, membrane and then probably onduline (or equivalent) bituminise sheeting. Or maybe EDPM. Haven’t decided. Onduline is available locally and will be about £350 to cover the roof. EPDM looks better functionally but is a new material to me and not available locally. Shipping to a small island in the middle of a big puddle can be tricky sometimes.
> 
> Re the headers, it’s worrying me too. I got my window the other day. It’s from the window company’s ’graveyard’ to keep costs down. Pretty much the only thing they had at close to the right size. 1800 wide. So the above configuration for headers is not going to work. I have some 4x4 fence posts sitting around that would be better. Between that and the (two) top plates, there would be very little deflection. And we don’t exactly get a lot of snow down here.


It's worth trying to sort the headers at this stage. You are only looking at under £50 of wood to ensure the windows and doors work properly.
Nice saw, I have the smaller version, quite impressed with mine, no complaints anyway.

Martin


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## Ollie78

Looks good so far, I wouldn't worry about the steel in the slab ( too late anyway ) my Dad did a garage with the same method as yours at least 15 years ago and its still fine. 

Personally I would not bother with the diagonals on the frame. Just put breathable membrane on straight away to protect the OSB.

For the roof I would seriously consider trapezoidal metal roofing. It is superior to 
onduline (by a lot ! I think onduline is rubbish) and felt and probably even EPDM. 
It is easy to fit and pretty much maintenance free. 
Don't skimp on guttering either I like the metal stuff there as well.

Ollie


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## macca

+1 for turning your visqueen up around your slab and up the back side of your brick course, not really the conventional way but between your bricks and slab you have circa 200mm of porous masonry at the base of your walls, alas the ship has sailed just ensure your cladding has enough over hang to deflect any rain away from the area. I can see in your images that you slab is below grade and the excess DPM at this point is holding water against the slab, good for the initial cure but you need to dig away the ground immediately surrounding the pad and get this level down.

RE correcting your wall line, really no issue again this ship seems to have sailed at this point but you should be battening off your osb outer skin to create airflow behind your cladding so pull a straight line for you plates that can be extended with said batten to overhang your lower courses of masonry. if you aren't battening your OSB push your timber out to the outer edge of the bricks and batten your internal wall, you can vapour barrier continuously around your inner stud work prior to battening and create a service void behind your internal sheet goods and add extra grounds for loading points on your wall that you may need a fix between studs and have inevitably not considered at the rough framing stage.

don't worry too much about your OSB it will need a breather membrane that will keep the rain off but honestly you'd be surprised how well it holds up to rain when its upright on a wall regardless, if you don't get osb for a while brace internally with some cheap battens, you should be using diagonal braces to plumb you walls anyway and these prevent racking, you can also use a batten across the corners of your walls internally to straighten any top plates that aren't quite right, most affective would be top plate down to adjacent floor plate but you run out of space quite quick on a small footprint like this.

lastly id look at alternatives to onduline, if edpm is within budget then ok but box profile metal sheets would be my choice, celotex under this and long fixing for the roof sheets through insulation into the purlins ties it al together nicely and support the sheets really well which can reduce the amount of timber needed for your roof on a low pitch.

reinforcing mess has become ridiculously expensive. yes you should have it in the slab in an ideal world, in reality will it crack? I doubt it, I just dug up 30 sqm of concrete 100mm thick no hardcore underneath and areas undermined by pests, not a single crack in it until i got involved  always better to be safe than sorry, its a standard for a reason and you hardly want to have to replace a slab on this kind of construction after a couple of years but I would put good money on this being just fine.


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## aphillippe

Adam W. said:


> Plus, you don't seem to have lapped the DPM and DPC. Is there a reason for that ?



I'm following Mike's design. I'm planning on cutting the DPM at ground level and sealing it to the concrete. I couldn't really see any other way of finishing the DPM other than take it all the way up and over the outside of the bricks and under the DPC, which then exposes the DPM to UV. This is the problem with floating slabs.


----------



## aphillippe

Ollie78 said:


> Personally I would not bother with the diagonals on the frame. Just put breathable membrane on straight away to protect the OSB.



I ended up skipping the diagonals 'in frame' and put temporary diagonals on the outside. Should have done on the inside but I was building the frames outside facing up, so was easier. I can go round and transfer them one by one to the inside before I put the membrane on. I don't know how long it will be between framing and getting it water tight (I'm only able to work on it at weekends) so want to keep as much OSB out the picture as I can until it's watertight


----------



## aphillippe

Ollie78 said:


> For the roof I would seriously consider trapezoidal metal roofing. It is superior to
> onduline (by a lot ! I think onduline is rubbish) and felt and probably even EPDM.


My problem is that there is one main builders merchant in Guernsey that has the island over a barrel. Their prices are inflated through the roof. There are many smaller merchants who deal with the common items, 2x4s, OSB etc at reasonable prices. And a small B and Q. Shipping smaller loads of materials is very inefficient price wise. Shipping larger pallets gets a bit more reasonable but I don't have the space to store that much stuff. So I'm having to go round all the smaller merchants and, in order to stick to budget, I'm mostly limited to what they stock. 

So, in this example, BandQ sell the onduline knock off stuff. I used it on my last shed and it was ok. Probably not 25 years ok, but good enough. And cheap, £380 I think. I did a ring around on the metal roof sheets and only the main builders merchant sells it. They wanted £800 ish.

Because of this issue (and my relatively tight budget) I'm having to make all sorts of compromises on materials and design. I'm confident I'll come out of the end of it with a reasonable workshop, but it's not going to be as nice as if I lived in the UK and had access to the range of merchants you guys have.

Anyway, I'll stop moaning now and say thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## aphillippe

macca said:


> ensure your cladding has enough over hang to deflect any rain away from the area. I can see in your images that you slab is below grade and the excess DPM at this point is holding water against the slab, good for the initial cure but you need to dig away the ground immediately surrounding the pad and get this level down.


I'm going to have about about a 25/30mm overhang between the outer edge of the brick and the outer edge of the cladding, depending on which cladding I end up with. Does that sound enough?

The bottom of the slab is below grade, the top of the slab is between 5 and 10 cm above. I'm planning on cutting the DPM off at ground level then backfilling it with gravel to 1 provide a bit of a soakaway and 2 avoid as much splashback onto the bricks as I can


----------



## Adam W.

aphillippe said:


> I'm following Mike's design. I'm planning on cutting the DPM at ground level and sealing it to the concrete. I couldn't really see any other way of finishing the DPM other than take it all the way up and over the outside of the bricks and under the DPC, which then exposes the DPM to UV. This is the problem with floating slabs.


It's not the raft that's the issue, but the way you've laid the DPM on the ground first. It should be slab - DPM - screed and lapped on the inside just like strip foundation, slab, screed and block.

Edit: So if you want it to work properly and keep the damp out, you need to fix it now before you go too far.


----------



## aphillippe

I'm following this diagram so far. The DPM goes under the slab and is cut off at ground level, leaving the edge of the slab and brickwork exposed. Then an additional DPM is laid above the concrete and up the internal sides of the brickwork up to floor level. Is this no good? It's not too late to lift the frame in sections and lap DPM under.


----------



## Adam W.

No, that will be fine if you put the extra DPM down and create a bathtub by lapping it properly with the DPC in the wall, don't leave a gap. You need the Kingspan to protect the DPM, so it has to go down before you start walking on the visqueen.

You can protect the Kingspan with ply or something, if you're worried about scuffing it up.

Edit: But I would have put a screed down to protect the DPM and put the DPC down lower so that 100mm of Kingspan or 50 mm screed and 50mm of Kingspan covered it up completely on the inside. 6" above GL for a DPC is good enough.


----------



## TRITON

aphillippe said:


> Also spent some time in Fusion...
> View attachment 134188
> 
> View attachment 134187


Would it be an idea to arrange the rafters/roofing joists, to allow for some long storage. Maybe even have a couple of small doors on the outside to access the space. It would mean you could load long timbers into the space from outside.
Just a thought/idea that sprang to mind


----------



## aphillippe

Adam W. said:


> lapping it properly with the DPC in the wall


Ok. Do I put the DPM on top or underneath the DPC? Or does it not matter? And what do I do with the ties? Bend them down over the top of the DPC/DPM combo and screw through it? Do I need to seal up the hole again after?

Thanks for your help btw


----------



## aphillippe

TRITON said:


> Would it be an idea to arrange the rafters/roofing joists, to allow for some long storage. Maybe even have a couple of small doors on the outside to access the space. It would mean you could load long timbers into the space from outside.
> Just a thought/idea that sprang to mind


It probably would have been. But I built the trusses this weekend. I have a separate shed for timber storage so not really something I was worried about. I was more worried about head height and the ability to move longer items inside the workshop


----------



## aphillippe

Sunday’s efforts…








Frame is now essentially done. Just need to place and screw the noggins and then on to the roof


----------



## macca

i feel like you have mentioned previously but is your door already ordered?/ a set dimension? there is not much timber around it and i feel your whole wall is going to shake when you close the door, I would certainly look to beef up the surrounding even just extra noggins either side if your have no more timber would be a start.

Regarding DPM DPC situation, I am no expert, I am a carpenter so I'm sure many others can weigh in with more expertise on the matter but here is my take, the dpc ontop of your brick course is merely to prevent water passing up through the masonry into the plate of your wall, the dpm is to keep all moisture outside of the inhabited space, you need it to run continously above anywhere moisture will be present ie masonry and below anything inside your finished space, at this point the best you can do is lay it ontop of your slab and lap it up the brick, *here is where someone else needs to weigh in as in my opinion this is the crucial point*, i think the dpc should be turned down and the dpm lapped over it with radbar tape sealing the joint between them, if dpc goes over dpm i feel theres a chance for rising moisture in the bricks to run across the underside of the dpc over the dpm and into your workshop.

At this point its a pain in the buttocks but not impossible to lift the walls as they are and get you DPM to run under the plates to create a continuous seal.

if none of this sound appealing at this point do the following, take battens, can be cheap 2x1 roof battens if your budget is tight, run them down your studs outside trapping your excess dpc down over the bricks and extending the lowest point of your cladding over the bricks to hopefully keep them from getting wet, you need to have a clearance of 150mm below your cladding so you will probably need to excavate a little around the base of your workshop to get some extra height. i know when money is tight extra spending seems impossible but getting the structure and outer skin of this build correct is key the rest can be done when you can and is easier to upgrade later down the road. if i were you, at this stage i would really consider giving a decent overhang all the way around your building, the size of a roofs overhang and the maintenance required for a building like this are directly proportional - more overhang = less maintenance, not to mention keeping the immediate ground around your workshop dry.

I hope all this doesn't sound like I'm having a go, it all comes from a good place but you are a stage where some things can and should be corrected to save potential issues down the road when if cost a lot and hurts a lot more to correct any issues.


----------



## MikeJhn

Bit concerned about the notches in your rafters, they would tend to indicate wider than depth, wrong way around for a spanning timber between rafters supporting a roof.


----------



## Adam W.

aphillippe said:


> Ok. Do I put the DPM on top or underneath the DPC? Or does it not matter? And what do I do with the ties? Bend them down over the top of the DPC/DPM combo and screw through it? Do I need to seal up the hole again after?
> 
> Thanks for your help btw


You're welcome.

Just lap it the way that you can. It is recommended, and if you feel the need or if you can't lap it in some places, to seal the gap up with quality masking tape. It's best practice to not puncture the membrane, but if you have to, seal it up as best you can. There won't be much moisture coming in if it's punctured well above ground level and it's not worth loosing sleep over a couple of small holes, but protect it as best you can once it's laid. Scuffed up kingspan is better than a holey DPM.

I'll leave the other stuff to other people, otherwise you'll end up with too much conflicting advice. Just that rafter feet should be bearing on the wall plate.

Over and out!


----------



## MikeJhn

I don't think Adam meant masking tape as we in the UK know it, but use a good quality waterproof tape such as "Gorrilla patch and seal tape".

Rafters should as Adam said be bearing on the wall plate and overhang the walls to provide water run off from the roof, too late now, but do put some kind of extra support under the ends of the rafters, perhaps a corbel of some kind, and re-consider the span between rafters, it looks excessive.


----------



## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Bit concerned about the notches in your rafters, they would tend to indicate wider than depth, wrong way around for a spanning timber between rafters supporting a roof.


The gap is only wider than it is tall because I was using up some shorter offcuts. The only job that piece has is to support that span of roof OSB and I figured the extra 5cm gap would be fine. Not sure I'm explaining myself there...


----------



## MikeJhn

Extra gap will not be fine, beams/purlins fail by twisting either mid span or at the bearing, for the same reason noggins are needed between them, that gap needs filling, the depth of the purlins also looks inadequate, sorry to be so critical, but fifty years as a Structural Engineer does not go away just because I am now old and retired.

Have a look at these, very inexpensive for 3 sq m, don't know what delivery would be like, but no harm in asking: Katepal Super Katrilli Hexagonal Felt Roofing Shingles 3m2 - Green | Roofing Superstore®


----------



## aphillippe

No need to apologise, any advice is most welcome.

The design of the roof was essentially copied from my old shed. Probably (definitely) not the best design methodology and could be improved by those who know more than me, but my logic is 'it worked ok in the old shed for 10 years, should be fine in the new one'. No doubt it could be better and I'm happy to learn and tweak the design.

The beams will be captured on both sides with OSB, forming a torsion box, and so will have little opportunity to warp over time. Re the strength/span, the beam was 2x2 on the old shed and I've upped it to 3x2 (with the long side oriented vertically), and increased the number of beams (3 -> 4), reducing the span. I'm not sure there's much I can do to strengthen now without raising the roof line (which I can't really do, planning permission is restricting overall height) or starting from scratch, which I'm not excited about. I could run a ridge beam and rafters in between the trusses but my motivation for building this way rather than that more traditional ridge/rafters way was to keep it easy to install and reduce the amount I had to do up a ladder. The panels can be made on the ground and just lifted up and over. But obviously if it's going to fail, probably not a good shout. I'll have a think about it and come back with some updated designs


----------



## MikeJhn

Its not warping thats the problem, when a beam is overloaded any sideways movement allows the beam to twist it is then taking the load on its minimum axis which it is not designed for this puts the compression and tension zones into a very small area and the beam will fail, hence the need for noggins between purlins or floor beams, I rue the day that herringbone noggins went out of fashion just because it took a carpenter to make them, solid noggins are now the norm and every trade that needs to get services from one side of the room to the other notches the beams instead of running though the spaces provided by the herringbone hence compromising the beam strength which has to be taken into account when calculating it's size for span and load, hence the cost and size of beam is increased and the poor old Structural Engineer gets the blame for the increase in cost and oversize structural elements, whinge over.


----------



## macca

i


MikeJhn said:


> Its not warping thats the problem, when a beam is overloaded any sideways movement allows the beam to twist it is then taking the load on its minimum axis which it is not designed for this puts the compression and tension zones into a very small area and the beam will fail, hence the need for noggins between purlins or floor beams, I rue the day that herringbone noggins went out of fashion just because it took a carpenter to make them, solid noggins are now the norm and every trade that needs to get services from one side of the room to the other notches the beams instead of running though the spaces provided by the herringbone hence compromising the beam strength which has to be taken into account when calculating it's size for span and load, hence the cost and size of beam is increased and the poor old Structural Engineer gets the blame for the increase in cost and oversize structural elements, whinge over.


recently had the pleasure of working on an MF ceiling (the suspended metal lattice type of make up) hung below block and beam, no lack of space there, i think there was about 600mm of clear space for mvhr, low and high volt runs, sprinklers, plumbing etc. a very high end build, certainly not the usual home but boy did it make everyones lives easier!

@aphillippe many old houses had the roof made up of A-frames supporting a purlin or 2 and a ridge beam, from the wall plate over the purlins and onto the ridge they ran 2x2 rafters (if you could call them that ) these roofs held up huge amounts of slates, prone to a bit of sagging but didn't fail for 100-150 year lifespans of scantle slate roofs. You could look to do similar using the small rafters to both reduce span, hopefully support some load on top of your walls as the trusses are incorrectly terminating inside the wall, provide some airflow and also create the overhang for your roof to keep water from the facade and immediate ground. its not what an engineer would suggest but it would be absolutely fine and solve some of your issues


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## Steve_Scott

MikeJhn said:


> Bit concerned about the notches in your rafters, they would tend to indicate wider than depth, wrong way around for a spanning timber between rafters supporting a roof.


I agree… I=bd^3 and all that. I’m also uneasy with the way the rafters are constructed. Seemingly a laminated design with the continuous element acting on a cantilevered “pad” rather than the sole plate. Not saying it won’t work but it’s an unconventional way of doing it.


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## MikeJhn

At this stage of the game I would be re-making those truss's so they overhang the walls as shown in the OP's post No 62, I would also increase the number of them.


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## aphillippe

Right, new plan, aiming to keep as much of what I've already built as I can but beef it all up...

1) Take off the trusses and top plates, put new top plates in that span the joins in the framing panels. Should stiffen the walls up and help transfer loads from the roof more evenly. Take off the top row of timbers from the gable a-frames and replace with continuous beams to get to the right height






2) Put the trusses back on, this time on top of the top plates rather than directly on the wall frames. And add some support to deal with that overhang. It's not shown in the design but there is at least one stud under each foot of the trusses.




3) Run ridge beams between the gables and trusses, 100 x 47. I had some conversations with the local building merchants, a beam that would span the 6m was silly money. So approx 2m spans, hence keeping the trusses to support the ridge.




4) Add rafters (2x4), birds mouth on to the top plates, rafter hangers at the ridge. Throw in some noggins or purlins.






Better?


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## aphillippe

Oh, I forgot to add them to the design but ties across the rafters on at least 50% of the rafters


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## Molynoox

I have no experience of dual pitched roof design so I will leave it for others to comment but I would like to say that fusion seems to give much nicer looking output than SketchUp does. I have tried to find a plugin for SketchUp that does a half decent job but I haven't been able to figure it out. I wonder if I could import a SketchUp model to fusion, just to get the nice looking output...
Enjoying your progress on this one.
Martin


----------



## aphillippe

Molynoox said:


> I have no experience of dual pitched roof design so I will leave it for others to comment but I would like to say that fusion seems to give much nicer looking output than SketchUp does. I have tried to find a plugin for SketchUp that does a half decent job but I haven't been able to figure it out. I wonder if I could import a SketchUp model to fusion, just to get the nice looking output...
> Enjoying your progress on this one.
> Martin


That’s just a screenshot of the design interface. It also does nice renders with materials and lighting and such. If you can do sketchup, fusion shouldn’t be much of a leap. It’s the same ‘sketch then extrude, repeat’ solid modelling paradigm. I find the precision you can get in fusion is much more accessible, especially designing for 3D printing. And parametric dimensions are amazing. I haven’t spent much time in sketchup though


----------



## Molynoox

aphillippe said:


> That’s just a screenshot of the design interface. It also does nice renders with materials and lighting and such. If you can do sketchup, fusion shouldn’t be much of a leap. It’s the same ‘sketch then extrude, repeat’ solid modelling paradigm. I find the precision you can get in fusion is much more accessible, especially designing for 3D printing. And parametric dimensions are amazing. I haven’t spent much time in sketchup though



cheers. I have actually tried it a while ago and there were certainly bits that I loved. I didn't get on with it for architecture / landscape design though which is what I want 3D for mainly. I found if I was creating a single component (like a single building, or just a random object like an engine) then it was fine (brilliant even with the parametric stuff). But as soon as I added multiple buildings, and a surface / garden etc, I found that fusion just get into such a huge mess that it was unusable. I am sure its possible but not with my brain I don't think. Also, if you look around, nobody is using fusion for architecture / landscapes, that probably says a lot, so I switched to sketchup at that point.
Im still temped by fusion. very tempted
Martin


----------



## aphillippe

Molynoox said:


> cheers. I have actually tried it a while ago and there were certainly bits that I loved. I didn't get on with it for architecture / landscape design though which is what I want 3D for mainly. I found if I was creating a single component (like a single building, or just a random object like an engine) then it was fine (brilliant even with the parametric stuff). But as soon as I added multiple buildings, and a surface / garden etc, I found that fusion just get into such a huge mess that it was unusable. I am sure its possible but not with my brain I don't think. Also, if you look around, nobody is using fusion for architecture / landscapes, that probably says a lot, so I switched to sketchup at that point.
> Im still temped by fusion. very tempted
> Martin


Yes, it’s definitely product/component focused rather than large projects like architecture


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## MikeJhn

Getting back to the build, why the rafter hangers at the ridge? not needed if the rafters are cut correctly and braced between either side, and the cut needed to place the rafter onto a horizontal takes away some of the strength of the rafter.

I still use a drawing board, T and Set square, much too old to learn new skills, except I do touch type.


----------



## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Getting back to the build, why the rafter hangers at the ridge? not needed if the rafters are cut correctly and braced between either side, and the cut needed to place the rafter onto a horizontal takes away some of the strength of the rafter.
> 
> I still use a drawing board, T and Set square, much too old to learn new skills, except I do touch type.


I was thinking those angled hangers, so no cut needed. But changed my mind when I saw the cost. £8 each. I figured it would make placing and nailing/screwing a bit easier. So they’ve gone out the window


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## MikeJhn

Piece of triangular ply wood notched for the ridge beam and square twisted nailed to the rafters, but do make sure the rafters are butted tight to the ridge beam.


----------



## aphillippe

Roof is up, starting to feel like a building now...





I just realised I didn't take any pictures between the rafters going up and the OSB going on. More pictures in between stages next time.

I did take some pictures of this jig I knocked together to cut the birdsmouth with the circular saw (just using the mitre saw as a temporary saw horse, plenty of clearance under the workpiece despite appearances). I'm sure there's probably a better way of doing it but this seemed to work...


----------



## aphillippe

So now working out what to do with the membrane and battens on the roof. I was planning on membrane on the OSB and then vertical battens (to allow any water to run off) and then cross-battens to mount the Onduline. But do I really need battens? Onduline documentation says you can mount direct to the OSB but I can't find any mention of OSB plus membrane.


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## mikej460

For an outbuilding roof I installed T&G sarking (which is what your OSB3 is) then vertical battens then membrane (ensuring the membrane sags a little in between battens) then horizontal counter battens then the covering (in my case red cedar shingles). I would be nervous fitting onduline direct to the OSB3 as it may not allow enough ventilation to remove condensation or rain ingress. With onduline you have the problem of ingress via fixing holes and overlaps (especially in driving rain). Don't forget venting at the ridge.


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## MikeJhn

Onduline are a manufacturer and make all sorts of roof coverings, what are you considering using, corrugated or flat?









Onduline Group | Roof suppliers & Roofing manufacturers in more than 120 countries


Onduline Group is present in more than 100 countries to provide you the best service a roof supplier and a roof manufacturer can provide. With 80 years of expertise in roofing, Onduline is internationally renowned.




www.onduline.com


----------



## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Onduline are a manufacturer and make all sorts of roof coverings, what are you considering using, corrugated or flat?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Onduline Group | Roof suppliers & Roofing manufacturers in more than 120 countries
> 
> 
> Onduline Group is present in more than 100 countries to provide you the best service a roof supplier and a roof manufacturer can provide. With 80 years of expertise in roofing, Onduline is internationally renowned.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.onduline.com


Sorry, I’d be using the full corrugated panels, Onduline Classic.


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## MikeJhn

In that case go with the manufactures recommendations: https://uk.onduline.com/sites/ondul...NDULINE CLASSIC Technical_book_roofing-UK.pdf have you considered a two layer self adhesive felt? So far lasted about fifteen years on one of my sheds.


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## MikeJhn

The timber used in your internal truss's would be better utilised as cross brace's to your rafters.


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## MikeJhn

@aphillippe How you getting on?


----------



## aphillippe

Life has been getting in the way a little, progress has not been as rapid as I had hoped.

Wrap is on...







It went reasonably smoothly, and managed to get the whole shed covered with about 10cm of spare left over from the 50m roll. 


Roof's on...














I didn't have a roof ladder or anything so I couldn't reach much further than a single tile width (900mm), so I needed to do each side of the roof and the ridge tile, working my way along, one sheet at a time.





(story stick for marking nail placement)

And window's in...






I'll be battening this weekend and hopefully cladding next weekend. Then just a door and I'm water tight


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## MikeJhn

Just in case you don't know, always put a vertical batten on any corner to butt the end grain of the cladding against, reduces the exposure and looks better as well.


----------



## Molynoox

MikeJhn said:


> Just in case you don't know, always put a vertical batten on any corner to butt the end grain of the cladding against, reduces the exposure and looks better as well.


Sounds sensible but how do you fix to a corner, isn't it always going to be at the edge of one of the sides?
Not sure if I'm being clear....


----------



## MikeJhn

Sorry wrong description, probably need a 4 x 2 or whatever works for the size of your cladding batten plus cladding.


----------



## Jameshow

2x2 will normally sort if it is 20mm cladding and 25mm batten. 

You can screw into the batten rather than the edge grain of the cladding. 

Or you can get capping that goes over the top and covers end grain.


----------



## Molynoox

Jameshow said:


> 2x2 will normally sort if it is 20mm cladding and 25mm batten.
> 
> You can screw into the batten rather than the edge grain of the cladding.
> 
> Or you can get capping that goes over the top and covers end grain.


Oh ok, now i get it. So one batten at far edge of each building side to create a sort of L shape housing at the external corner, then a square section timber fitted to that L housing, fastened into one or both of the battens. And finally the cladding. Got it. Thanks.
Martin


----------



## MikeJhn

Got it.


----------



## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> Got it.


Yep, this is my exact plan. I’ve been watching Robin Clevett on YouTube, has lots of good tips and follows essentially the above design for cladding


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## Molynoox

MikeJhn said:


> Got it.


Now that's clear


----------



## aphillippe

Progress update, over the course of the last few weekends...

Battening, went up fairly quickly and no major issues. Lots of splinters though...













And then on to cladding. Delivery was interesting, truck just about squeezed into our drive, a little bit squeeky bum. And the crane only took out a few branches...





Once it was all in, on to cladding. I got a good system going, made up a little plywood jig to get the spacing right, and made an s-shaped bracket to hold the other end while putting the first nail in. Once up and running, it goes up pretty quickly, and got the majority it of it done in a weekend.


Starting on the far end, less visible so all my mistakes can go there. I used 2x2 corners, pre-assembled with two battens screwed in to form the 90, then nailed to the frame. Seemed to work pretty well...











I tried to keep as much air gap as I could to allow ventilation through the gable ends. And somehow managed to totally mis-measure the length. Uggh, the angles were a pain.





I didn't get any photos of the back side (there isn't much to look at, nor is there much room/light to take photos, only about 2 foot between the shed and the hedge), or the other end (it's just the same as this end, funnily enough).

The trim around the window was a bit fiddly but all the small cladding pieces were the same length, so I must have done something right...







And then this weekend's job, doors. I had some leftover cladding, 1x5 and 2x2 (and a few similar but random sized pieces from the packing for the cladding), all pressure treated. So my plan was half-lapped 2x2 for a frame, 1x5 rails across the top, middle and bottom to mount the hinges and clad between the 1x5. And then eventually insulate between the frame, and finally cover the inside in OSB when I line the rest of the shed.

Frame mostly done, half-laps glued, test fitting for the first time. Side to side size is spot on, height needed a good 5mm trimmed...


----------



## aphillippe

Rails on, hinges mounted...






And they work! (so far)...





Still to do...

Clad the door
Door bolts, handles and lock
Gutters
Soffits
Insulation
Lining
Floor
Electrics/Lighting
Maybe a bit of a tidy up at some point?


----------



## MikeJhn

The only refinement I can see is put another board low down angled out from the wall and tuck the DPM up behind it, then slab the outside also angled away from the wall so the board drips onto the slabs.


----------



## aphillippe

MikeJhn said:


> The only refinement I can see is put another board low down angled out from the wall and tuck the DPM up behind it, then slab the outside also angled away from the wall so the board drips onto the slabs.


My current plan, according to Mike's original design. is to cut off the DPM at or above ground level and seal it with liquid rubber to the slab. This gives the slab some above ground exposure to release any moisture absorbed either during the pour or from rainfall/splashback. I'll dig a bit of a moat and fill with gravel to improve drainage and reduce splashing. And there's enough of an overhang on the roof that nothing drips from the roof, so it would only be driving rain on the cladding. And even then, there's a good 2cm overhang from the cladding to the brick. I'm not sure I see the benefit in adding further layers to the concrete/brick. I think the exposed concrete/brick will probably last longer than any other material on this shed as long as there's no water pooling anywhere


----------



## aphillippe

Update after a couple of weeks...

Finishing off the doors. I decided to clad the doors with the same cladding as the walls. Partly because it looks consistent but also because I had some leftover from the rest of the cladding. 











It might have been nice if I'd had the foresight (and amount of material needed) to continue with matching grain right across the walls/doors. But I'm happy with them as is.

Locks and door handles on and moving on to the soffits. Just drilling out the vent holes...





All done. I decided to use the same cladding for the soffits as the walls, again because I had some left over. Also edge strips on the gable ends of the roof went up, and the guttering is on (no pictures sorry). 





So outside is pretty much done. On to the inside...









50mm insulation and then 18mm OSB. No WiP pictures sorry, but it was a fairly miserable job (I had picked up lots of small offcuts of 100mm from a local plumbers merchant and needed to resaw them all down to 50mm) that I just wanted to crack on with.





I need to do something at the threshold. Not easy to see but there's bit of a height difference between the door jamb and the floor, so I need some trim piece or something to fill the gap. On the list it goes


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## Jameshow

aphillippe said:


> Update after a couple of weeks...
> 
> Finishing off the doors. I decided to clad the doors with the same cladding as the walls. Partly because it looks consistent but also because I had some leftover from the rest of the cladding.
> 
> View attachment 139902
> 
> View attachment 139903
> 
> 
> 
> It might have been nice if I'd had the foresight (and amount of material needed) to continue with matching grain right across the walls/doors. But I'm happy with them as is.
> 
> Locks and door handles on and moving on to the soffits. Just drilling out the vent holes...
> View attachment 139904
> 
> 
> All done. I decided to use the same cladding for the soffits as the walls, again because I had some left over. Also edge strips on the gable ends of the roof went up, and the guttering is on (no pictures sorry).
> View attachment 139905
> 
> 
> So outside is pretty much done. On to the inside...
> View attachment 139906
> 
> 
> View attachment 139907
> 
> 50mm insulation and then 18mm OSB. No WiP pictures sorry, but it was a fairly miserable job (I had picked up lots of small offcuts of 100mm from a local plumbers merchant and needed to resaw them all down to 50mm) that I just wanted to crack on with.
> 
> View attachment 139908
> 
> I need to do something at the threshold. Not easy to see but there's bit of a height difference between the door jamb and the floor, so I need some trim piece or something to fill the gap. On the list it goes


Looks about 2" so another piece of 2x2?


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## MikeJhn

Concrete gravel board at ground level laid flat DPM turned up and over and then build a brick threshold, could look good.


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## JimTaylor

My 5 x 4.2 metre shed blew my budget of £10k out of the water, a bit like Grand Designs. The garden was not level with a 2 foot drop over 4.2 metres, so a big slab. The concrete came in at twice my expected cost.


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## John Brown

aphillippe said:


> Long time lurker embarking on a shed build and thought I'd start a build thread.
> 
> In my previous house I had an off the shelf 14x8 'heavy duty' shed that acted as a workshop, timber store, bike storage, garden storage, etc. etc. I moved last year to a larger property and while we were looking around, one of the things on my list of requirements was a decent workshop space. The house we ended up buying has no workshop but plenty of garden. So permission and budget was negotiated, planning permission was sought (Guernsey planning permission is a little stricter in certain ways than UK) and a couple of weeks ago the build started.
> 
> So budget and WAF will stretch to a 20x10 timber frame on a concrete base. Not enormous but twice the size as my previous shed and, crucially, entirely devoted to workshop space. I'm planning on following Mike's design mostly, concrete base, two courses of bricks, floating kingspan/chipboard floor over the concrete, timber frame, OSB inside, wrap and cladding outside. I'm thinking of following the design of my previous shed for the roof, gabled end wall framing, then two trusses and six framed roof panels that will be easy for me to lift and slot on the trusses. Then onduline sheets or EDPM, haven't decided yet.
> 
> I've got an overall budget of £5.5k, which is going to be pushed very hard. Guernsey is not cheap for building materials at the best of times but timber prices lately mean I'm going to have to get creative. I'll be building mostly at weekends in between full time job, three kids and a dog so progress it likely to be slow but I'd like to get it up and done (or at least water tight) over the summer. Time will tell...


Good luck! I built one a bit smaller(about 4.5m X 3.5m) about 2 years ago, no concrete base but screw jacks. Cost me slightly in excess of 5k, and stuff has gone up a fair bit since then.


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## John Brown

Sorry, just realised I've replied to an old thread. I blame Jim Taylor for resurrecting it...


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## MikeJhn

Did not bother with a concrete base, just built retaining walls off piers and pad foundations, been there over fifteen years now and never moved.


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