# Are Festool Router (and tools) really worth the money?



## matt scarlett (9 Apr 2016)

I've looked and re-looked at Festool router in particular. but I'd like to get some real world views and professional views of people who have used them. 

I'm starting out for a second time with my hobby, but from what i learned last time; *buy cheap buy twice*. I've looked at the likes of your £100 routers from Hitachi and Black & Decker, but do you think it'll be a good investment, or am i shooting for the stars. I've also looked at Makita and Dewalt around the £300 mark, but i've seen a few 1 star comments for Dewalt, which surprised me. 

Nay advice/comments would be welcome.


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## Wuffles (9 Apr 2016)

Which one are you looking at and for what purpose?


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## custard (9 Apr 2016)

I use a few different Festool routers, I use them on a daily basis and they're superb tools.

But I also have a couple of DeWalt 625's (and before that the Elu routers that they're based upon), they get used constantly in my workshop and they're superb tools too. 

If I was buying one general purpose router for hobbyist purposes I'd probably get the DeWalt (or the Trend equivalent), accessories are a lot cheaper and are also available from third parties, so you're not locked into the Festool system, plus generally speaking they're a bit easier to mount onto a router table. What I wouldn't do is buy one of the ultra cheap routers, but unless you're going to invest heavily and widely across the Festool family of tools I'm not sure I'd pay the Festool premium for occasional, weekend use. Products like DeWalt and Trend occupy a pretty sweet spot in the middle.

Just my thoughts, good luck!


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## adidat (9 Apr 2016)

I think it depends on your budget and what your trying to achieve. In my job I earn reasonably good money for a 25 year old, so I have mostly festool tools as I know I can use them with repeatable accuracy. Its a more professional look when you turn up with a big stack of matching white tool boxes rather than 15 boxes of different shapes and colours. Im lucky in that through the company I work for 99% of my quotes are accepted as the customer knows there getting a top notch job! So if I require a new tool then it will have been priced into the job.

I often hear people moaning about the price of festool gear I think its quite well justified, all there tools come with a 3 year warranty they collect the tool for free, sometimes offering a loan tool then fix it and return it in a few days all for free, even if the tool has been abused. They have spares available for 10 years after buying the tool. They have a demonstrator that will come to your place of work if your uming and arring about buying something. They offer a 2 weeks cooling off period and will give a full refund if you decide you don't want it in that period evening if the item has signs of use. 

there also just excellent tools that work and do a great job, they come in a very sturdy case that can be used as a hop up if desperate. All of the above costs money!

So if your not in the trade of have a limited budget then the trend t10 is very good.

p.s I don't claim all there tools are the best out there, I have the fein multimaster which is very good and half the price of festools offering this is the same case for my chopsaw and jigsaw!

adidat


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## matt scarlett (9 Apr 2016)

Wuffles":a3twlspj said:


> Which one are you looking at and for what purpose?



I was looking at the 1400. Inline with my hobby of building speaker & subwolofer enclosures, I need a router to cut the speaker mounting hole, but i wanted to also use some serious roundover bit as well, like the Trend bit

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Trend-C191X1- ... 6016.l4276


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## adidat (9 Apr 2016)

that cutter is recommended for table use as a slight wobble with a hand router and alot of damage could be done!

adida


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## petermillard (9 Apr 2016)

Short answer: yeah, pretty much. They're quality tools that work well and have above average dust collection across the range, with good warranty and service. But whether that's worth it to you, only you can decide.

Oh, and re. those 1-star reviews, there's all kinds of reasons people leave them - problems with deliveries, damaged goods, inexperienced users with a tool they don't understand, or just people who don't like the tool; when you're chunking down a few hundred quid on something, you get to be quite particular...

HTH Pete

Edited to add: +1 to table use with that cutter.


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## matt scarlett (9 Apr 2016)

adidat":1qaccnj5 said:


> that cutter is recommended for table use as a slight wobble with a hand router and alot of damage could be done!
> 
> adida




thanks for that, and thanks top everyone for the advice. I guess i was already semi sold, but now I just need to convince the other 'alf! But i assume Dewalt and Makita are both brands that can be trusted?


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## Wuffles (9 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":3xvsy1yi said:


> Wuffles":3xvsy1yi said:
> 
> 
> > Which one are you looking at and for what purpose?
> ...



1400 is a lovely router., good all-rounder You can bequeath it to someone once you've killed yourself trying to use that bit in it 

As everyone has said, the tools are very good, I started with Bosch, moved up to the 1400 after trying a TS55 and converting, then switch some tools to Mafell, but the good Festool tools stuck with me, domino, routers and what not. I eventually moved on the OF1400, lost next to nothing on it as the resale values are very good on Festy gear. I now have the 1010 and the 2200, because, well why not. I also have a Triton mounted in that table I recommended to you, better than a Festool for table mounting in a cheapo table.

Also, look at the Whiteside bits at routercutter.co.uk or CMT through a contact I have if you want decent bits. IMO Trend bits (and pieces) just aren't as good as the two I mentioned.


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## matt scarlett (9 Apr 2016)

Wuffles":gq1c5dx4 said:


> Also, look at the Whiteside bits at routercutter.co.uk or CMT through a contact I have if you want decent bits. IMO Trend bits (and pieces) just aren't as good as the two I mentioned.



I've bought a few Trend but was advised to look at Freud for ruoter bits. I try and stay away from cheap bits after this 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/review/R2MZVQ43 ... &store=diy


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## Wuffles (9 Apr 2016)

Silverline Lolz


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## biskit (9 Apr 2016)

Think I'm going to have to move down south to get the sort of money those tools cost. Must have had 50 years using rubbish tools. (homer) !!!!!!! :!: :wink:


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## Wuffles (9 Apr 2016)

biskit":2az7jvcj said:


> Think I'm going to have to move down south to get the sort of money those tools cost. Must have had 50 years using rubbish tools. (homer) !!!!!!! :!: :wink:



Would you then change your name to domino, or go double-barrelled like we all do down South.


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## Racers (9 Apr 2016)

Hitachi M12V/VE are very good and cheap, about £150 I use one in a router table and its a beast!
I also have a Makita 3612c which is also good.


Pete


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## Distinterior (9 Apr 2016)

I have a couple of Dewalt 625's and a couple of the earlier versions when they were still Elu branded. All are still going strong and get used for routing kitchen worktop joints & boltholes. The older Elu's get used for various tasks and one of them ( at least 20 years old) gets used and is permanently fixed in my router table. They are good workhorses, strong and reliable.

I also have 3 Festool routers, the OF 1010 which is a little gem. The OF 2000, another good smooth workhorse with reasonable dust extraction and the OF 2200 which is really smooth and powerful which mainly gets used for machining lSolid Surface type material. It really comes into its own for this task as it is quite heavy which gives it stability which is important when taking heavy cuts. It's dust extraction is also very good compared to my other larger routers, again when machining solid surface as is produces a lot of waste & mess.

I am very tempted to get the OF 1400 as I think then, there would be no tasks I couldn't take on.

I think you would need to decide what your main use of a router would be and what your budget is. Overall, if you do decide that Festool is the route for you, then I think the general consensus from people I know is, get the OF 1400 as it ticks the majority of boxes and can be used for various tasks.

Tim.


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## Doingupthehouse (9 Apr 2016)

Have a DeWalt 625 in my router table, used to use it hand-held as well. Now have a OF1400, best router I've ever used by a long chalk. The balance is fantastic, the snap-in guide bush plates are great as well, no mucking about with centring mandrells. 

I still like the big DeWalt, but the run out is very noticeable now it's in a table with a collet extension - have checked the extension and it has almost zero runout. 

Also got a couple of ancient B&D routers, awful things, but they do have a Euro collar, so I keep them in case I ever want to do any overhead routing or make a pendulum jig etc.

Mainly using Wealden bits now - great quality and price.

Simon


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## adidat (9 Apr 2016)

another thumbs up for wealden there excellent quality and price!

adidat


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## yetloh (9 Apr 2016)

I have a DW625 which is a good workhorse, plus the FESTOOL 2200 which as Tim says, is really superb for smoothness, stability and dust extraction. People often say that for fine handwork you need a small router but I find the big Festool is better. It is highly adjustable and the the mass and smoothness allow great delicacy. I used mine for routing out the main waste from long rows of secret mitred dovetails with very little waste to be trimmed out afterwards by hand.

Jim


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## matt scarlett (9 Apr 2016)

Racers":28ox8ro0 said:


> Hitachi M12V/VE are very good and cheap, about £150 I use one in a router table and its a beast!
> I also have a Makita 3612c which is also good.
> Pete



What router table do you have?



Wuffles":28ox8ro0 said:


> Also, look at the Whiteside bits at routercutter.co.uk or CMT through a contact I have if you want decent bits. IMO Trend bits (and pieces) just aren't as good as the two I mentioned.



There are some menacing looking bit on that site! Thanks for the link. 

I guess it won't be from Professional use, just making sub and speaker boxes, 

0:12 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIoSvt8 ... tml5=False

but i had a Triton router ... i think, admittedly it was used from cash converters, but after little use, it basically started to fall apart. Every time i used it i was trying to hold on to various parts at the same time that with the vibration would simply fall off.


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## Ali (10 Apr 2016)

I would say they are definitely worth the money, very nice range of routers which hold their value well backed up by festool customer service.

It depends what you want to do though, you can save a lot of money if you need one for a router table. I own the cms system but am never tempted to use my festool routers in them.

I own a few Bosch routers too which are undervalued in second hand markets, great routers though. If I was starting out and didn't have the budget for festool then I would take a look at the two big triton routers.


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## matt scarlett (10 Apr 2016)

Ali":t0w5bs0m said:


> If I was starting out and didn't have the budget for festool then I would take a look at the two big triton routers.



I'm sure it was a Triton router that I previously had. Although that router was blue. The only Triton routers i see are Yellow. Maybe I had another cheap brand. What ever it was, it wasn't very good. 

Thanks for the input.


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## matt scarlett (10 Apr 2016)

Titan router ... i had a Titan router. That was dreadful. :shock: something like this, but it was blue so one can only guess it was an older model. 

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb591r ... 240v/49312

My only concern with Bosch is the price difference for a 1/2" collet router and 1/4". The 1/4" go for under £100, but the 1/2 and you're in the near £350 range depending on where you buy. I already have some 1/2 bits, and it would so primarily i'm looking a 1/2" machine.


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## Wouldchuk (10 Apr 2016)

I have another perspective to add - from that of an amateur for whom woodworking is absolutely a hobby. While a lot of people say to me - why do you bother to spend all that money on Festool stuff - and simply enough, it's because I really really enjoy using them as they are great bits of kit. 

As a hobbyist, my biggest challenge is time.... time... time time... aggghghhh! Every project is a battle of squeezed Saturdays and trying to remember what that pad of scrawled measurements meant... ! (hammer). Mistakes mean a project can be stalled for months.

For me, I had a few bits of second-hand kit and some newly bought Dewalt, when I thought that it was the top of the range - little did I know of Festool prices! 

Gradually, over the past few years I've upgraded to a Festool router and track saw. These are the bits of kit I use by hand the most in my sort of weekend projects. They make a massive difference in that they're reliable and accurate, so while I can still make mistakes (measure twice, and again, then cut it too short anyway...), I think they were worth the price - which also makes you look after them better than your first born!

But in my judgement, I don't need a £1000 Festool chop saw - I have an old Axminster one for £50 which I can tune to cut square. That's all I need. If you've room, a table router is a worthy investment. I got one second hand with a whopping old Makita router in - it hasn't missed a beat in all the time i've used it, permanently fitted to the table - you can do a lot of other tasks, avoid mistakes and with safety, than a hand-held machine. 

Anyway, Im fortunate that I can afford to spend on my hobby - but I do that because it gives me enjoyment, and I find it really has helped to have good quality kit. I'm not saying that it's only Festool in that quality bracket, but I do really rate them.

In addition to the earlier comments on service - Festool proivde an inbuilt insurance policy - if stolen, pay £100 and you receive a brand new tool - this was a god send when I was burgled last year.


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## Roughcut (10 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett said:


> Titan router ... i had a Titan router. That was dreadful. :shock: something like this, but it was blue so one can only guess it was an older model.
> 
> http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb591r ... 240v/49312
> 
> ...


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## Racers (10 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":381jtepw said:


> Racers":381jtepw said:
> 
> 
> > Hitachi M12V/VE are very good and cheap, about £150 I use one in a router table and its a beast!
> ...



I have the Ryobi/Record one, it's not bad if you replace the movable fence with a solid one. 

Pete


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## AJB Temple (10 Apr 2016)

My perspective. I don't tend to buy by brand: I usually try to buy the best tool I can find of for the job in hand. For mounting in a table the Festool premium may not be worth it. For hand held - it probably is. Festool don't always make the best: I recently used a cordless drill and driver extensively at a friends house helping him with some assembly. I had a Milwaukee Fuel with me (mine) and we both agreed the Milwaukee outperformed the Festool. I was very tempted by the Festool track saw but ended up with a Mafell. I don't have a domino, but have use them and the Festool system is superb. I might have to splash out on that. 

It 's easy to get carried away with brands. But in the end most of us like tools and if we can afford it we should just buy what we want. There is a definite diminishing return at the high end, but so what?


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Roughcut":1pnj66vy said:


> re.
> I'm a bit confused why you would want a Raised Panel Cutter for making speaker enclosures though? As these are used in a Frame and Panel .



A round-over is needed for some of the enclosure design, and for finishing the enclosure on the outside. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ul8YT98Nymw It's not 100% necessary on the outside, that's just for decoration so-to-speak.

As for the Trend Trend C191X1/2TC, that's for the 'Speaker' builds for which I intend to use it to design a tweeter wave-guide https://goo.gl/qy9r7E or some form of wave-guide for a point source speaker, the likes of Hertz Mille Pro MPX 165.3 http://www.fourcaraudio.co.uk/brands/he ... -mpx-1653/ or Morel Tempo Ultra 6 http://goo.gl/Nwsv1N .... as well as for use on the edge of the enclosure to reduce diffraction if the design calls for it


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Again, thanks for all the replies so far. Any more viewpoints,/advice is welcome.


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## Wuffles (11 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":2oabmubn said:


> Roughcut":2oabmubn said:
> 
> 
> > re.
> ...



Am I reading it right that you are intending to use that big trend cutter as a kind of large roundover bit for the tweeter?

If so, good luck with that. I wouldn't do it, but perhaps I'm less proficient on a router table.


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## DiscoStu (11 Apr 2016)

Just to be clear Triton and Titan are very different makes of router. I have a Triton in my table and can't fault it. It's too big and heavy (and powerful) to do a lot of handheld work but beautiful in the table. 

I had some round overs to do with it the other day and did these by hand and it was heavy work. Hence I bought the OF 1400 yesterday, but I've not used it yet so can't comment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## woodpig (11 Apr 2016)

This is interesting.

http://youtu.be/oezp-_DcUgg

Possibly not worth a thousand bucks then?! :lol:


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## DiscoStu (11 Apr 2016)

Seen that before and it is interesting however Festool provide a 3 year warranty and I don't know anyone who owns a TS55 and isn't pleased with it. I love mine - stonkingly good bit of kit. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Wuffles":38ycdd99 said:


> Am I reading it right that you are intending to use that big trend cutter as a kind of large roundover bit for the tweeter?
> 
> If so, good luck with that. I wouldn't do it, but perhaps I'm less proficient on a router table.




Believe me, any help and tips are more than welcome. How would you go about it? Round-over/edge work seems to be part and parcel of a car audio enthusiasts builds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YvFJpc91LM


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## Wuffles (11 Apr 2016)

woodpig":1k2vusob said:


> This is interesting.
> 
> http://youtu.be/oezp-_DcUgg
> 
> Possibly not worth a thousand bucks then?! :lol:



The fanboy element of the FOG tore that video to pieces last year, was interesting watching the "mods" (and the ex site administrator who now works for a retailer) try and defend it all. They were pulling the guy's electronic knowledge apart, whether it was correct or not. Don't forget, Festool's price fixing is still in operation in the US, so it all costs them more.

One of them claimed to have reported the serial number from the tool in the video to Festool USA to make sure they were aware so they could cancel the warranty. 

Very p̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ thorough behaviour.


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## Sawyer (11 Apr 2016)

petermillard":3n1x8so6 said:


> Oh, and re. those 1-star reviews, there's all kinds of reasons people leave them - problems with deliveries, damaged goods, inexperienced users with a tool they don't understand, or just people who don't like the tool; when you're chunking down a few hundred quid on something, you get to be quite particular...
> 
> HTH Pete
> 
> Edited to add: +1 to table use with that cutter.



Even the best stuff will always have some naysayer denouncing it: "I'll never buy Bosch/DeWalt/Metabo &&&c again!", so it's best to take all such remarks in context. However, if something is attracting an unusually high proportion of bad reviews, then it's probably worth taking note.


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## yetloh (11 Apr 2016)

Roughcut":3a9bgqfa said:


> matt scarlett"
> [color=#FF0000:3a9bgqfa said:
> 
> 
> ...


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

IMHO quarter inch routers are best avoided. They lack the oomph for really hard work and the narrow shanks cause vibration which affects smoothness of cut. Half inch cutters are more expensive but worth every penny[/quote]

I assume 1/4 is there for lighter work, in my case, trimming of veneers etc, where as a 1/2 router would be better for cutting through the wood .. mounting whole for a subwoofer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvbPhJf ... tml5=False


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## Beau (11 Apr 2016)

How about just getting a quality second hand machine. Can thoroughly recommend the old Elu Mof 177E and looks like there are quite a few floating around second hand. Mines never needed more than the odd bearing and a change of brushes in 25 years. for example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elu-moff-177E ... SwZ8ZXBVts


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Beau":1w87lry6 said:


> How about just getting a quality second hand machine. Can thoroughly recommend the old Elu Mof 177E and looks like there are quite a few floating around second hand. Mines never needed more than the odd baring and a change of brushes in 25 years. for example http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elu-moff-177E ... SwZ8ZXBVts



Looking into it. I'm also looking at the models from Elu .... anything but that Titan router again :roll: 

Seems to be enough spare parts around. https://www.partshopdirect.co.uk/brands ... arts-c275/

I'll look further into it. Thanks


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

I'm guessing the Elu router bits are equally as trustworthy and reliable?


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## woodenstx (11 Apr 2016)

I purchased the TS55 setup last year... First big leap into "proper" tools. I was a shade wary at first of the cost etc but its just divine to use. Saying that, I bet the Dewalt and Makita versions are "just as good", but in reality they arent vastly cheaper anyway.

I have a Clarke CR3 (I think, basically the one you cant buy anymore :lol: ) 1/2" router and its a beast, sure its not perfect and needs a little bit of cunning with setups, but with Trend bits (or any of similar/better quality) its a joy to use.

My biggest revelation in general was the simple concept of dust extraction..... I'd never ever considered it in the past but not I wont be without my trusty titan wet+dry next to me


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## AJB Temple (11 Apr 2016)

I also recommend the Elu. I have an oldish 1/2" machine mounted to my router table and it is excellent. I still have and regularly use a 1/4" ELU machine that I must have had for 25 years that is still going strong and as far as I am concerned works as good as new. Cheap way of upgrading if (say) you can't afford the Festool route, whilst you save up.


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

woodenstuart":2xptnqg2 said:


> I purchased the TS55 setup last year... First big leap into "proper" tools. I was a shade wary at first of the cost etc but its just divine to use. Saying that, I bet the Dewalt and Makita versions are "just as good", but in reality they arent vastly cheaper anyway.
> 
> I have a Clarke CR3 (I think, basically the one you cant buy anymore :lol: ) 1/2" router and its a beast, sure its not perfect and needs a little bit of cunning with setups, but with Trend bits (or any of similar/better quality) its a joy to use.
> 
> My biggest revelation in general was the simple concept of dust extraction..... I'd never ever considered it in the past but not I wont be without my trusty titan wet+dry next to me



I was going to invest in a Dewalt DW75 table saw, as I'm uncertain for how long I'm going to be at my current address, and I didn't want to get a proper table saw, only to have to hump it to another address, or worse, have to put it in storage (long story). I wonder if I should just invest in something like the Festool TS55 instead. Just for ripping I prefer using a table saw with crosscuts being done with some form of sled, but you've got me thinking.


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## woodenstx (11 Apr 2016)

I have zero space for a table saw of any meaningful size, so a track saw and a few strips of sacrificial wood to space it all up is what I use on the decking.... As said, I reckon any tracksaw would be great (possibly except for the schleeeeepach one), just I purchased the festool once since I'm a spec/brand Peach and simply couldnt justify a mafel :lol:


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## petermillard (11 Apr 2016)

If you're cutting sheet materials then tracksaw, all day long.


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## Wuffles (11 Apr 2016)

woodenstuart":t9uqjqjg said:


> I have zero space for a table saw of any meaningful size, so a track saw and a few strips of sacrificial wood to space it all up is what I use on the decking.... As said, I reckon any tracksaw would be great (possibly except for the schleeeeepach one), just I purchased the festool once since I'm a spec/brand Peach and simply couldnt justify a mafel :lol:



It gets worse, because you end up taking the Mafell apart to add in a festy power connector or it makes using a boom arm with a power lead attached permanently to the hose a total and utter hassle 

Convenience.

I'd argue that any track saw will do what it's supposed to do Matt, hard for them not to really. Arguably the Bosch/Mafell rails are better...and if someone wants to buy mine they can, I was too heavily invested in festool rails when I switched brands and couldn't be bothered to re-buy them all. Luckily the Mafell fits both rails.


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

The thing is, although the dewalt table saw looks good, i know for ripping MDF for the sub enclosures, it's a pretty small thing, and adding a sled is going to be interesting. Sure i could use it as a base for my own table saw, and build extensions, but for ripping, it's giving me another perspective. Due to the limit of your average boot, I won't go much above 40" (sub lying down) for enclosure width. and with your average sub being 12" i guess the average height cut is only going to be 12-13" 

i'm still thinking..... But the replies are throwing up names that as a newbie, i don't know like *Mafell rails*. Gives me more options and things to look into.


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## doctor Bob (11 Apr 2016)

No


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## Woodmonkey (11 Apr 2016)

Festool do a table that the ts55 can be mounted upside-down in which would then allow allow you to use for narrow ripping. Ain't cheap though.


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## Beau (11 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":131l5txi said:


> I'm guessing the Elu router bits are equally as trustworthy and reliable?



Don't know if they ever made cutters but it's a a standard 1/2 inch collet so can take cutters from all your good manufactures like CMT, Wealden, Whiteside, Trend, Viper etc


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Beau":1glygijq said:


> matt scarlett":1glygijq said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing the Elu router bits are equally as trustworthy and reliable?
> ...



Cheers


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## Distinterior (11 Apr 2016)

Looking at the overall quality of the newer Dewalt router (DW 625EK) versus the old Elu (177E) router, I do think the older version was better built. Hence my old Elu's are still going even after all these years. If you can find an Elu 177 in good condition, it is definitely worth considering.

The Festool routers are a step up in quality and of course, more modern technology. All that aside, the dust extraction capabilities alone should make it a contender on your list, especially if you are going to be routing MDF regularly. Don't forget, you get to buy a Festool router, try it for up to 15 days, and if you think it's not for you, you can take it back and get a full refund!. No problem. I have to say, I don't know anyone personally that has bought one, used it and then decided to take it back.

Tim.


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

Distinterior":2x66izg2 said:


> Looking at the overall quality of the newer Dewalt router (DW 625EK) versus the old Elu (177E) router, I do think the older version was better built. Hence my old Elu's are still going even after all these years. If you can find an Elu 177 in good condition, it is definitely worth considering.
> 
> The Festool routers are a step up in quality and of course, more modern technology. All that aside, the dust extraction capabilities alone should make it a contender on your list, especially if you are going to be routing MDF regularly. Don't forget, you get to buy a Festool router, try it for up to 15 days, and if you think it's not for you, you can take it back and get a full refund!. No problem. I have to say, I don't know anyone personally that has bought one, used it and then decided to take it back.
> 
> Tim.


]
Cheers. Hands up, i wasn't very good with the whole 'Dust extraction' stuff in the past. I just got to cutting. Don't get me wrong, when i was buying MDF from my local totem timber, a builder stopped me and asked what i was doing (project). i told him i was building a subwoofer enclosure. He gave me a full a warning about MDF, and told me to get a really good mask at the very least (i already had one). But i never got a dust extractor


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## shed9 (11 Apr 2016)

In response to the question of the worth of Festool;

In my opinion, some of it yes, some of it no.

On a whole the kit is well made, well supported and pays for itself in my opinion whether it be commercially or dividends in the enjoyment of a hobby. Their kit generally becomes more cost effective the more you buy, taking advantage of the system approach, i.e. using tracks for saws, routers and the LR32 system for example.

That said, there are parts of Festool which I think need addressing; why is the fence that comes with the 1010 just a pressed steel part, I'd expect that with Triton, not Festool? The drills are also a little over priced and under powered in my opinion.

My main concern with Festool is the gradual switch from German made, IIRC the PDC drill is now Czech made and this may go further afield. 

The bottom line however is that a product is worth what the customer will pay, those that don't feel the price is worth paying do not actually reduce that 'worth', well not in a commercial sense at least.


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

shed9":1q5nucgm said:


> In response to the question of the worth of Festool;
> 
> In my opinion, some of it yes, some of it no.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the insight. Are you saying that you feel the move to czech will effect the build quality?


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## Wuffles (11 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":12pp1xcj said:


> shed9":12pp1xcj said:
> 
> 
> > In response to the question of the worth of Festool;
> ...



Cost saving can do that. They were always proud to be made in Germany, not so now I guess is the point, but they're all at it so take your pick.


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## shed9 (11 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":32igrh2r said:


> Thanks for the insight. Are you saying that you feel the move to czech will effect the build quality?



I have no doubt that the quality will be the same specification. However, when companies switch to a cheaper workforce, it rarely ends well for the end product, the employee or indeed the customer.


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## matt scarlett (11 Apr 2016)

shed9":gr2qfu4w said:


> . However, when companies switch to a cheaper workforce, it rarely ends well for the end product, the employee or indeed the customer.



That seems to be my experience regardless of the product. *'Get the good stuff while you can'* i guess


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## Wuffles (11 Apr 2016)

In terms of quality Festool items, the routers are still the nuts. I wouldn't worry. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## woodenstx (12 Apr 2016)

Dremel went from German made to south american.... I have a german one and its been abused like you wouldnt believe and its still fine, suffice to say I know folks with south american ones which havent lasted beyong the first few months of similar abuse


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## matt scarlett (12 Apr 2016)

woodenstuart":sifuixtk said:


> Dremel went from German made to south american.... I have a german one and its been abused like you wouldnt believe and its still fine, suffice to say I know folks with south american ones which havent lasted beyong the first few months of similar abuse




Unlike Festool, Dremel seem to have varying success. 

But so far I've been going buy the likes of Amazon reviews, never occurred to me to join a forum and ask.


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## Emanuel (12 Apr 2016)

matt scarlett":29m6bjha said:


> *buy cheap buy twice*. I've looked at the likes of your £100 routers from Hitachi and Black & Decker, but do you think it'll be a good investment, or am i shooting for the stars. I've also looked at Makita and Dewalt around the £300 mark, but i've seen a few 1 star comments for Dewalt, which surprised me.


That's the way I usually go as well when I am buying something that I don't have much experience with. 
Get a cheaper one for now and see how it goes. You might even get lucky and it will last you more than a more expensive one would. 
After you get some more experience, you can decide if it's worthwhile spending three times the amount for a Dewalt.


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## matt scarlett (12 Apr 2016)

That Titan Router didn't last very long. Again I know it was second hand from cash converters, but I did have more than one scary moment with it. In the end I had to get rid. The thing is, most of the time i'm either going to be ripping or gluing/clamping. The router is going to be used for cutting the speaker/subwoofer mounting hole and adding round-over finishes to the enclosures. 

There again maybe i'm looking at this with a narrow view. Maybe there will be other projects i want to do other than speaker/sub builds that will require more time with a router.


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## Sawyer (12 Apr 2016)

Wuffles":ant0nd1o said:


> Cost saving can do that. They were always proud to be made in Germany, not so now I guess is the point, but they're all at it so take your pick.



A bit like 'Metabo - Made in Germany' which suddenly became;
'Metabo - work don't play'

I don't know what the quality has been like ever since, although I'm sure somebody can elucidate....


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## matt scarlett (12 Apr 2016)

I'm not saying that quality has gone down, or the Czech workforce or engineering is sub-standard, but IME, and in face of most outsourced components being manufactured in the Far East, it's hard to say that there aren't any benefits to looking for competitive prices, and i'm as patriotic as the next person in wanting to keep the UK's manufacturing alive. 

But when companies go cheap, cheaper and cheaper still and simply to maximize profits, then corners ARE cut and many a time it adds up to a product that is no longer what it was, with the company trying to convince that somehow it's for the development of said product, better more efficient etc, etc. 

Off topic, i'm trying to argue that point with the new Porsche 718 and it's hideous sounding four pot engine. If Porsche has the capability to engineer a new turbo charged four pot engine, then surely they could have revised or engineered a new six pot? Cutting corners!


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