# Choosing TIG welder.



## Dimokslis (17 Jan 2014)

Hi, everyone,
Which TIG/ARC inverter would you guys recommend for a newbie. Mostly it will be used for a car repairs/projects, like: exhausts, alloys etc... I have done my home works reading about TIG, MIG and ARC welders. 
And I chosen TIG, why? Because it seems I will use ARC mostly, but to have TIG in one machine for a future is not bad, even it will cost me more at this stage. 2nd reason why I chosen TIG/ARC is - aluminium welding. That's all from my readings over the internet, I may be on a wrong way, but I hope you'll help me.
If you drop a link or just a brand/model, would be perfect.
Price range: £400
Thanks in advance.


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## woodfarmer (17 Jan 2014)

I will be very interested to see what turns up here myself. Here on the farm I have a big old stick welder which is fine for big stuff but wont do thin sections. From what I have seen, you can use AC to weld aluminium as it needs 50% plus/minus to stay clean as it deposits metal. Maybe not as nice as using pulsed DC.
wish you luck finding one.. for myself I sort of tried to find a tig welder that would also do MMA as they are more efficient and lighter that the transformer ones.


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## Dimokslis (17 Jan 2014)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-all-1 ... 23336dec4a

I have found these on eBay. On the paper work it looks very good. +plasma cutter which would be really helpful. But as I only have basic info about the welders so do not have an idea how good these would be.


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## flh801978 (17 Jan 2014)

I recently went to my local BOC branch to get a new mig gas bottle and whilst there was admiring the new range of tig welders.
asked the salesman/assistant what i needed and a total cost for everything
walked out with £850 of stuff
It worked well on steel as a mma machine....nice and light after my transformer stick machine
It was great as a tig on steel and stainless only trouble was you had to start and stop the gas manually
Tried it on some alloy and couldnt get it to work at all
The instuction book was rubbish
looking online for instructions /help I found that you need an ac mode for alloy. the machine I had bought on the salesmans advice was DC only

went back to boc to ask advice
salesman didnt have a clue about tig said he was a mig expert he didnt know much about tig he admitted
ended up taking the lot back as i didnt want to spend £1100 on the machine that another salesman recomended so with all the extras would have meant total spend of perhaps £1600

hope this may help

ian


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## woodfarmer (17 Jan 2014)

flh801978":27dqg3bf said:


> It worked well on steel as a mma machine....nice and light after my transformer stick machine
> It was great as a tig on steel and stainless only trouble was you had to start and stop the gas manually
> Tried it on some alloy and couldnt get it to work at all
> The instuction book was rubbish
> ...



This what I mean that normal AC stick machine will weld aluminium. It needs a minus and plus to clean and deposit material near enough on a 50% duty cycle ie same amount of time - as +

You do need to be able to adjust this duty cycle for different materials from near all one to near all the other. The machine switch modes the DC (+ or -) from the manual controls. not all sets have this ability and that makes them less useful. Probably too late to help


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## flh801978 (18 Jan 2014)

What do you mean by a "normal AC stick machine"
most stick machines are DC surely

Ian


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## woodfarmer (18 Jan 2014)

The old fashioned transformer type machines. (normally at the budget end)

something like this

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... arc-welder

basically just a transformer. AC in, AC out but more amps less volts out.


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## Spindle (18 Jan 2014)

Hi

I've no experience of TIG, (yet :-k ), but there's plenty of info here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/

http://www.weldingforum.co.uk/index.php

Regards Mick


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## Ray J (18 Jan 2014)

TIG welding is a beautiful controllable welding format, just so long as you follow the correct procedure.
The problem with using it on car repair work is TIG requires cleanliness. Difficult on cars unless you can clean the back side of the weld area.
Stainless needs back purging, even 304 as used in exhausts. That means having a flow of gas behind the immediate weld area, easy but increases costs.
It can be done without but it is a rubbish weld. I was at the Birmingham Car show a few years back. I inspected some car stainless welded inter-coolers by an outfit who claimed to supply Porsche. I pointed out weld defects - coking - because of lack of back purging to my son. Their sales rep' moved me on :lol: :lol: :lol: 
A TIG set is DC you can use it for FCA as well and is far superior to AC. Aluminium is a different technique and you will need square wave AC, very expensive and is usually industrial. How deep is your pocket :lol: 
99.999% Argon Gas supply is another problem for the hobby welder, though not impossible. Just another expense.
Don't try using MIG Argo Gas on TIG. It has to be 99.999% pure.
Then there's the consumables, Ceramics, Tungsten Electrodes and Filler wire of the correct quality    

Don't forget if you are considering it on your household property, tell your home insurers you are about to start Welding :wink: :roll: :shock: 
I wonder how many do :?: 

Unless things have moved on, as with all things since I retired :roll: 
Have fun :wink: 

Ray 8)


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## flh801978 (18 Jan 2014)

woodfarmer":35qoml9n said:


> The old fashioned transformer type machines. (normally at the budget end)
> 
> something like this
> 
> ...




I think you will find that those sort of cheap machines are always rectified to produce DC


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## woodfarmer (18 Jan 2014)

flh801978":ce41k7tq said:


> woodfarmer":ce41k7tq said:
> 
> 
> > The old fashioned transformer type machines. (normally at the budget end)
> ...



Nope, pure sine wave AC (although with a lot of lag under load making for a poor power factor).


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## mind_the_goat (19 Jan 2014)

Seems a big investment if you've not done any welding, but it seems worryingly cheap for a TIG welder. 
They offer a warranty and assistance, but are based in Germany so may not be much use.
Aluminium welding is tricky using any welding type and as others have pointed out, the unit you linked to may not be suitable. It does seem short on dials and switches.
You will need to add the price of Gas, either renting from BOC or you need to find a local 'hobbyweld' or similar supplier. Allow at least £130 up front for that.
Will it run on a 13A plug ?
I took time out to do an introduction course before parting with money for my MIG welder. Learned a lot, even on a one day course. I did MMA and MIG which was good to learn the differences. See if local colleges offer anything in your area.
The forums someone else linked to are well worth joining and trawling for information.


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## woodfarmer (19 Jan 2014)

Dimokslis":ils09aia said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Welding-all-1-set-CT-520-TIG-ARC-200amp-Welder-w-PLASMA-CUTTER-equipment-/151186697290?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item23336dec4a
> 
> I have found these on eBay. On the paper work it looks very good. +plasma cutter which would be really helpful. But as I only have basic info about the welders so do not have an idea how good these would be.



It wont do aluminium, for that you will need this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STAHLWERK-AC- ... 23308f7740
hope that helps


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## colinc (7 Feb 2014)

Hi, 

very interesting to read this. I have been researching what to buy too. 

As far as I can see, R-Tech are probably a good bet for serious hobby use. I have used one their digital AC/DC inverters which was very good. Like most of the others already mentioned they are built in China but the company has a good reputation for dealing with any problems and give a 2-year warranty. 

I spoke to them about one of their basic models i saw on ebay but was advised that for what I was wanting it for (mainly aircraft frames and fittings) I really should have one that came with a foot pedal. Because they were talking me up the price range I got offered a discount on a better model. Because I am mainly interested in steel, they recommended a DC machine to save a bit of money (I have access to an AC machine if I want to try welding aluminium).

However, in the end I didn't buy from them as I got offered a used DC only Migatronic inverter that has all the features I need and is probably a better made machine , for less money. However, I think the R-Tech machines are worth a serious look at.

Regards, 

Colin


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## imageel (8 Feb 2014)

With reference to the OP requirements - cars, exhausts and alloys i.e. an AC/DC TIG machine on a budget of £400 -
I don't think you will have much luck.
Cars and stuff like exhausts are inherently dirty- paint, rust, carbon deposits etc and with stick or MMA welding you will find you will be blowing holes everywhere especially on thin stuff, it will be fine on thicker material such as suspension or chassis parts.
Trying to TIG any of these will be challenging since everything has to be scrupulously clean and the main issue you will have with thin material like car body panels will be heat distortion which if you have never TIG welded before you will find challenging especially since most TIG welding is done on a bench because you need to be able to control the torch very finely keeping it maybe 1-2mm from the workpiece otherwise you will either bury the tungsten into the workpiece or blow holes in it.
Trying to do positional TIG welding as would be likely on cars -i.e at 90 degrees or even upside down is very difficult and only skilled pro's can do it succesfuly.
TIG'ing steel requires a DC setup, but if you want to weld alloys you need one capable of AC too and these are not cheap, coupled with the relatively large amount of Argon shielding gas used you will find that unless you pay £2-300 for a decent sized gas cylinder rental you will spend a fortune on the small throw away ones. You will also almost certainly need a foot pedal for alloys too since they absorb so much heat you need to back off the current as you weld otherwise you end up reducing the workpiece to a blob of molten metal..
That said I think you would probably be better off going for a MIG setup - these are within your budget and are the most common equipment used by car repair enthusiasts - the consumables are relatively cheap and you can use less pure CO2 like pub gas which is far cheaper and more widely available than pure Argon required for TIG. They are also relatively easy to learn and use.
I have an R-Tech AC/DC 200A rig and the initial outlay for the welder, consumables- tungstens, ceramics, gas and packs of rods for steel, stainless and aluminium was north of £1600
Good luck whichever way you decide  
Ed


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## lincs1963 (11 Feb 2014)

just seen this post, can't help with which machine but for gas have a look at rentfreegas.co.uk
Hope this is of interest, Neil.


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## Keith 66 (14 Feb 2014)

I work in a college so have some experience in tig, the college bought an R tech set & it is pretty good, the big problem with it however is that it has a lot of knobs on it & the students cannot stop fiddling with them! for a beginers machine not ideal. At home i have a Portamig Tig set, it is excellent quality and simple to use with just the essential controls. As for shielding gas the BOC volkszone deal is worth having as it virtually halves the cost of gas for a home user, you can have argon or argoshield light on it. Info is on the mig welding forum.


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