# Sharpening chisels for a complete novice



## swisstony (29 Mar 2021)

Morning all

First post for me and why not start with a complete novice question. I have an assortment of chisels that all need sharpening. I haven't a clue what to buy or for that matter how to actually sharpen the chisels but I guess you tube will be the best source. Still remains what is a good set to start with ?

I saw that Rutlands had a pretty decent diamond block 





Diamond Stones | Next Day Delivery


Lifetime Warranty. Premium Diamond Combination Stones. Monocrystalline Diamond Particles. Uniform Grit Size and Dense Distribution. Diamonds are Electro-Bonded to a Warp-Free Plate. Perforations Virtually Eliminate Clogging. Excellent for Sharpening Knives, Chisels, Plane Blades, Router Bits.




www.rutlands.com




or on a real budget I can buy this 








Stanley Oil Chisel Sharpening Kit


Order online at Screwfix.com. Achieve a professional, precise finish when sharpening chisels and plane irons from ¼



www.screwfix.com





Would that be a good place to start and are they pretty easy to use ? I appreciate that you guys are all a lot more experienced at this than me but opinions vary but budget is one thing and I can't stretch to some expensive japanese water stones etc. Any advice would be most welcome. thanks


----------



## Jameshow (29 Mar 2021)

Yes easy to use especially with the guide. 

You soon learn to do it without the guide and often between each joint. Wood working of course... ! 

Cheers James


----------



## Phil Pascoe (29 Mar 2021)

Sharpening chisels? "Search" on the top right of the page - there are thousands of pages already written on it.


----------



## D_W (29 Mar 2021)

buy yourself some coarse PSA paper and run your guide at 25 degrees, and then reset it to slightly over 30 (ever so slightly) on something much finer (it could be one of those oilstones you have pictured followed by a good strong polish like autosol. 

No need to buy anything expensive. Your biggest task as a beginner is going to be grinding accurately so that you can sharpen easily. If your chisels are already well ground at something, leave them be and just keep them like they are. If they're sloppy, then you may need to fix them. Many arrive at 25 degrees - don't grind them steeper for no reason and waste your time doing that. 

You essentially will always have two things to do - 
* grind the bulk of the bevel to an angle that gets it out of the way
* address just the tip of the chisel honing that and where the back and bevel tip meet


----------



## swisstony (29 Mar 2021)

D_W said:


> buy yourself some coarse PSA paper and run your guide at 25 degrees, and then reset it to slightly over 30 (ever so slightly) on something much finer (it could be one of those oilstones you have pictured followed by a good strong polish like autosol.
> 
> No need to buy anything expensive. Your biggest task as a beginner is going to be grinding accurately so that you can sharpen easily. If your chisels are already well ground at something, leave them be and just keep them like they are. If they're sloppy, then you may need to fix them. Many arrive at 25 degrees - don't grind them steeper for no reason and waste your time doing that.
> 
> ...



Thanks a lot, I guess my biggest problem (apart from being an silly person) is seeing how bad the chisels have got before deciding how to tackle them. Luckily most are just dull without any major damage or nicks. But once again thanks for the advice


----------



## swisstony (29 Mar 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Yes easy to use especially with the guide.
> 
> You soon learn to do it without the guide and often between each joint. Wood working of course... !
> 
> Cheers James


Cheers James, I had to laugh at the joint comment


----------



## Stan (29 Mar 2021)

Welcome.

It will seem like everyone will have their own preferred way of sharpening. Here is my tuppence worth..

If you need a flat surface, a decent piece of glass will do it reasonably cheaply. I got a piece about A4 size. I then used a piece of 18mm thick plywood and recessed one face so the glass sits in the plywood about 1mm proud, with a 2 inch border all round the glass. This protects the glass nicely when in use and I can clamp the plywood to my bench. When finished, I screw a 6mm piece of plywood over the glass, and it is protected for storage.

I am slowly changing over from waterstones to diamond stones, as the wallet allows. I don't like waterstones because firstly they are messy to use, and secondly they take a while to prepare when you want to use them.


----------



## Jacob (29 Mar 2021)

Best beginners' oil stone is the Norton IB8. Coarse and medium. Does for most woodwork, then when you are reasonably confident you could add a finer stone. All you need for the rest of your woodworking life!
I haven't tried that very cheap Stanley kit but it might be a good starter.
I'd dump the jig though. To quote the great Salaman "Such devices are intended to help novices but in fact they only postpone the acquisition of a necessary skill which will be quickly learnt after a few attempts at free-hand sharpening".


----------



## D_W (29 Mar 2021)

Never met a maker worth their salt who cared whether or not someone else used a guide. The chance for a beginner to have success and figure out what they're even looking for is likely much better with the guide and an angle finder, though.


----------



## D_W (29 Mar 2021)

(and I sure have seen a lot of freehanded tools that don't have a very good edge because people can't keep track of what the grind is vs. what's going on at the tip)


----------



## MARK.B. (29 Mar 2021)

D_W said:


> (and I sure have seen a lot of freehanded tools that don't have a very good edge because people can't keep track of what the grind is vs. what's going on at the tip)


I have enough trouble with two hands imagine how much i would have with using freehand's


----------



## Jacob (29 Mar 2021)

You can free hand with one hand, with glass of whisky or cigar in the other! Hope that helps.


----------



## MARK.B. (29 Mar 2021)

Now you complicate matters more Jacob  got to decide whiskey or cigar


----------



## Stan (29 Mar 2021)

Whisky or whiskey? ( Prefer brandy myself ).


----------



## Phil Russell (30 Mar 2021)

Some time ago I was faced with a similar task ... quite a few neglected chisels and plane irons that came into my possession. The biggest/longest job started to be using a stone or whatever to get back a decent 25 degree 'front' angle. It took a long time.
Then I decided to make a jig to clamp onto my grind wheel steady rest. This made getting that initial 25 degree grind a doddle ... very quick. After which all I had to do was progress to the oil stone /diamond stone for the final sharpening. 
Cost to me: about an hour making the rest jig which in itself saved many hours of tedious 'hand' grinding.
Cheers, Phil


----------



## Jacob (30 Mar 2021)

Phil Russell said:


> Some time ago I was faced with a similar task ... quite a few neglected chisels and plane irons that came into my possession. The biggest/longest job started to be using a stone or whatever to get back a decent 25 degree 'front' angle. It took a long time.
> Then I decided to make a jig to clamp onto my grind wheel steady rest. This made getting that initial 25 degree grind a doddle ... very quick. After which all I had to do was progress to the oil stone /diamond stone for the final sharpening.
> Cost to me: about an hour making the rest jig which in itself saved many hours of tedious 'hand' grinding.
> Cheers, Phil


Best to hone at 30º for starters then if you get a nice edge (as you would with a new chisel) you don't need any further grinding


----------



## novocaine (30 Mar 2021)

don't waste your money on the stanley stone, it's a composite and rather loose, I cut a channel in it within a few days from sharping 5-10 1/2" chisels. 
otherwise, buy what you want. the guide is ok, just make sure the tool is straight and ignore the crappy stamped marks. 

good luck.


----------



## JohnCee (30 Mar 2021)

Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...


----------



## Oraclebhoy (30 Mar 2021)

I started my sharpening with three different grits of sandpaper. Think 120, 240, 600 or something like that. Got some really good results using that and a guide.
I since bought some very cheap Diamond plates and have been very disappointed with them (but I sort of expected to be)
One thing I will recommend is dedicated flat board to mount your sanding equipment to. . Got the diamond plates stuck to it with tape and I clamp it to my wobbly desk.


----------



## Jacob (30 Mar 2021)

Oraclebhoy said:


> I started my sharpening with three different grits of sandpaper. Think 120, 240, 600 or something like that. Got some really good results using that and a guide.
> I since bought some very cheap Diamond plates and have been very disappointed with them (but I sort of expected to be)
> One thing I will recommend is dedicated flat board to mount your sanding equipment to. . Got the diamond plates stuck to it with tape and I clamp it to my wobbly desk.


Diamond plates have just a thin layer of diamond dust on them. Oil stones have 25mm deep Alox and last many years longer - for life in fact, of a typical user!


----------



## Jameshow (30 Mar 2021)

A grinder is useful if the chisels are very worn. 

If that is not a possibility then you can use a belt sander to remove material if they have been abused. 

Cheers James


----------



## TheTiddles (30 Mar 2021)

JohnCee said:


> Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...


Dammit, you got there before me!


----------



## D_W (30 Mar 2021)

JohnCee said:


> Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...



You never have to sneak out of a shop to break wind when you're done sharpening, though. Or escape out of a window.


----------



## G S Haydon (30 Mar 2021)

DW, cult TV of the 90's, The Fast Show


----------



## timothyedoran (30 Mar 2021)

I had a similar stone to the Stanley one and it never got my chisels sharp. I then bought a diamond stone from its and at the same time bought a block of green polishing compound. Amazing difference and made my woodwork much better as the chisels cut rather than tore the wood. My skill level is still just past newbie.

I always use a guide because I was finding the edge was not square and was slanting. I don't do enough practicing to nail the free hand technique.

I got one of these but in a 300/1000 combo and it's been great. I have not used it loads.








Vaunt Diamond Sharpening Stone Double-Sided 200mm x 75mm Coarse/Medium


Vaunt Diamond Sharpening Stone Double-Sided 200mm x 75mm Coarse/Medium Available from ITS.co.uk with fast delivery and 5 star service




www.its.co.uk


----------



## D_W (31 Mar 2021)

There are a lot of stones that look like that stanley stone. I kid you not, I got a combination stone that wasn't baked that hard that was all alumina last year, 6x2 at the dollar store. I used it and autosol to sharpen a modern marples parer (relatively modern) to hair hanging sharpness in about 3 minutes. I consider 3 minutes of continuous sharpening a pain (a lot - my typical chisel sharpening routine is 1 minute of power grind per four or so sharpenings and literally 30 seconds to 1 minute of honing and buffing any other time - so 3 minutes of continuous rubbing is intolerable - but it can be done. 

"not baked that hard" means that the particles come off of the stone. 

For the princely sum of about $8, you can get a stone like that that holds together. Those stones will not provide a sharp edge for two reasons:
1) if they're friable and they're that coarse, the grit is tumbling and you will always get a giant version of slurry dulling
2) even if they're not friable, sometimes they're silicon carbide and sometimes alumina, but they're coarse. In the old days, English joiners carried one black silicon carbide combo stone and a washita. How do I know? My english friend and I looked through his dad's tool box when his dad died - it was his working tool box. We thought the washita was worthless (we didn't know better) and found the enormously swayed silicon carbide stone fascinating. 

My friend still has the washita -I have trouble convincing him how great it is. He thinks my sharpening is some kind of slight of hand trick. I can hone a razor on a washita now. that combination would be my tool box combination choice for anything, above and beyond anything "modern". 

But the coarse alumina stones that are not vitrified and the silicon carbide stones will never finish an edge. They're useful for maintaining a bevel so that something like a washita can work the tip of the tool. 

Somewhere between that old fellow and jacob, people forgot how to sharpen properly in the joiner trade in england.


----------



## johnnyb (31 Mar 2021)

I have a beginner come to me on Saturday mornings and I can tell you what he does wrong(sorry 1275gt!). it may be that you do the same and gain a bit of insight.
firstly he spends to long polishing the backs with a fine abrasive this tends to eventually result in rounding of the edge. I've had to grind the rounding off a few. 
he tends to try and sharpen using fine abrasive this tends to result in not reaching the sharp bit. 
as always observation and reaction aren't entirely coordinated in beginners.
shiny and polished are not necessarily sharp. learn to feel the burr as that is the ultimate test of if your at the edge. don't bother with superfine abrasives coarser is more practical for beginners as long as your reaching the end. hope that helps.


----------



## johnnyb (31 Mar 2021)

ps I think honing guides have value because they can allow a beginner a bit of control so they can increase the angle slightly between coarse and fine thus ensuring the fine reaches the end of the edge


----------



## Gardener (31 Mar 2021)

I would advise using a honing guide what ever abrasive/stone you choose ...


----------



## Jacob (31 Mar 2021)

I would advise never to use a honing guide. They are slow, fiddly, inconvenient and entail several other problems, not least that you get drawn in to the whole malarkey of the modern sharpening craze.
Doesn't take long to get the knack of freehand sharpening - it's much quicker and more convenient. About as difficult as sharpening a pencil.
PS I see (several comments above) the Stanley offering gets a bad press. Never tried it myself so I won't disagree!
But the Norton stones are utterly different and last reliably for many years - lifetimes in fact.
I've tried all sorts but if starting again I'd choose the Norton ib8 for basics and one more Norton fine stone for finer finishing. About all you need really.
I've had unbranded synthetic stones similar to the Norton except brown instead of pink, and just as good - Norton not the only option.
I do have 3 eze lap diamond plates - a very expensive mistake really as they have low resale value, but the 3" width is handy now I've got them. The coarse plate is losing its edge - coarse Norton is faster.
I also have white and black Arkansas 8x2" which certainly do refine an edge if required for special purposes e.g. planing demos - to show that it can be done on that gnarly bit of exotic something or other.
I can see the attraction of finish hand planing of smaller objects but it becomes a labour of love if you try to do it on a difficult table top - and the speed and ease of freehand honing suddenly becomes essential!


----------



## swisstony (31 Mar 2021)

JohnCee said:


> Rather disappointing that no-one has pointed out to Swiss Tony that sharpening a chisel is like making love to a beautiful woman...



I was waiting for it but thanks for jumping in


----------



## pidgeonpost (31 Mar 2021)

Although I've been a hobby woodworker for almost 50 years I always seem to make a balls of sharpening freehand and end up using a honing guide.
I've tried, I really have. I can get an edge, but all too often I end up with a rounded bevel and an out of square edge. 
I'm tempted to try again having read some of the posts, maybe watch a few videos.
My efforts do to some degree equate to the beautiful woman bit, but in my case it's mostly determination and perspiration.


----------



## johnnyb (31 Mar 2021)

don't underestimate the effect of actually sharpening a tool (on purpose)as opposed to messing around and accidentally having a sharp tool. this can be like a game changer. please don't think I advocate honing guides but to get people over this first hurdle it's ideal.


----------



## johnnyb (31 Mar 2021)

ps pidgeonpost if it works for you then don't stop now(fifty years is a long time)


----------



## Jacob (31 Mar 2021)

pidgeonpost said:


> Although I've been a hobby woodworker for almost 50 years I always seem to make a balls of sharpening freehand and end up using a honing guide.
> I've tried, I really have. I can get an edge, but all too often I end up with a rounded bevel and an out of square edge.
> I'm tempted to try again having read some of the posts, maybe watch a few videos.
> My efforts do to some degree equate to the beautiful woman bit, but in my case it's mostly determination and perspiration.


Rounded bevel is perfectly OK as long as the edge itself doesn't exceed 30º too far. More or less unavoidable with freehand sharpening - it's difficult to freehand a flat bevel but quite unnecessary. 
It's a big item on the modern sharpeners agenda and causes them a lot of anxiety!


----------



## baldkev (31 Mar 2021)

Another good tip is to put a drop of oil on the back of the chisel near the tip, put it on the stone ready to sharpen, and when you raise the handle (slowly ) the drop of oil will suddenly disperse onto the stone when the tip contacts the stone.... then try to keep your wrist/ elbow etc at the same kind of height as you move the chisel ( forward and back or v shape or figure of 8, whichever ) 

It often helps to determine the right worktop height to work on to make it easier. Mine is about 900 high, standard kitchen worktop height


----------



## Jacob (31 Mar 2021)

baldkev said:


> ......... then try to keep your wrist/ elbow etc at the same kind of height as you move the chisel ( forward and back or v shape or figure of 8, whichever )
> ......


Or dip it as you go. Lower the angle slightly. You can put more energy into it if you start at 30º but dip in a sort of shovelling action. The thing to avoid is lifting it and rounding the bevel over.


----------



## MadMental (31 Mar 2021)

have none of you tried the Trend sharpening system ? I bought one for my birthday straight from the box I loved it but when I tried to use it the magnets that hold on the diamond stone fell out I was offered a replacement but Id already cleaned out the holes and bonded them back in with a metal reson glue after that what a great blade you get I needed somthing lighter because of athritis in the wrists and rigorouse hand movements were a thing of the past .


----------



## David bonner (31 Mar 2021)

Hey this requires skill and art if you ain’t got the gudgens to sharpen the blades or chisels as to say try it out boy no jig in this game.


----------



## D_W (31 Mar 2021)

johnnyb said:


> ps I think honing guides have value because they can allow a beginner a bit of control so they can increase the angle slightly between coarse and fine thus ensuring the fine reaches the end of the edge



This is an accurate statement. Get the result from the guide and learn to do it free hand once you have a good idea regarding the mechanics.

You have to work the fine bits at the edge on both sides. The idea that someone picks a single angle, rounded or not, and finishes well doesn't happen in practice.

What's the difference in edge life on a smoothing plane for coming up short ? You'll be sharpening about twice as often, at least.


----------



## Lons (1 Apr 2021)

If you're not knocking out work on a production basis where time is money then there's absolutely nothing wrong in using a jig to get consistent repeatable results. It's laughable that the subject causes so much anxt on both sides of the argument, there isn't an absolute right or wrong way, the bottom line is use whichever method/stones/machine that works for you and stick with it.

If you want to spend a fiver on a s/h oilstone then great but if you'd prefer to buy a jig, a machine or whatever then that's fine as well and not for someone else with a particular bee in his bonnet to state categorically that you shouldn't be doing so.


----------



## D_W (1 Apr 2021)

From the standpoint of a guy who hates to use jigs, if someone wants to use a jig and they get good results with it and they decide to never stop using it, that's perfectly fine.


----------



## Jacob (1 Apr 2021)

Lons said:


> ...... there isn't an absolute right or wrong way, .....


Do what you like, but there is a cheap, easy, practical, traditional way which tends to get overlooked. 
I can see why it might annoy people who have been struggling away with expensive water stones and all the fashionable gubbins, but that's no reason for me to keep it secret!


> .........use whichever method/stones/machine that works for you and stick with it....


 ......or change it. Always good to have a go with alternatives - you never know!


----------



## thetyreman (1 Apr 2021)

I sharpen both free hand and with guides depending on what it is, diamond stones and a strop.


----------



## D_W (1 Apr 2021)

Jacob said:


> Or change it. Always good to have a go with alternatives - you never know!



Let us know when you give guides a fresh go.


----------



## swisstony (1 Apr 2021)

Lons said:


> It's laughable that the subject causes so much anxt on both sides of the argument, there isn't an absolute right or wrong way, the bottom line is use whichever method/stones/machine that works for you and stick with it.



I didn't want my first ever post to be a bone of contention ! But be a member of enough forums over the years to understand there is a always a list of topics that gets everyone going. Bet pocket holes are right up there


----------



## D_W (1 Apr 2021)

Interestingly, pocket hole discussion is a jab that we have at work as there are a couple of coworkers who do no woodworking but use a kreg jig to make everything they can fit in their house (the statement about no woodworking is meant - they're not intending to get into woodworking, but rather just trying to make shelves fit in a closet. 

I don't think I've ever seen a contentious decision on them, but they may be in the "projects" or "general woodworking" sections. 

Usually someone dipping their foot in the water on the HT section on another forum will say something like "with modern glues and fasteners, most of this is a waste of time". 

I worked in a cabinet factory (not a shop, a large factory) 25+ years ago and we used an awful lot of hot melt and staples. I don't know how long they'll last, but probably long enough for the cabinets we made to be out of style (they are now - think the new cabinets that showed up on roseanne when they won the lottery - solid oak with light glaze finish and lots of glass and polished brass on knobs and light fixtures. 

Compared to those cabinets, maybe pocket hole screws are a step up!! (there were definitely pocket holes in some of the parts here and there in that place, too, but not many - usually on oddball stuff). 

I can tell you what the more expensive cabinets got returned for (as in ply sides and all solid wood doors and raised panels or glass panels). Color. 99% of the cabinets that came back and ended up in the upstairs storage area to be auctioned off didn't color match quite well enough. Send one out with a big gap in the face frame filled with a matching wax crayon? No problem. otherwise perfect higher end cabinet where a customer says they didn't like the color or that it doesn't match another cabinet they have well enough - comes back every time.


----------



## pidgeonpost (1 Apr 2021)

johnnyb said:


> ps pidgeonpost if it works for you then don't stop now(fifty years is a long time)


The guide I use is the very simple Eclipse job which I'm sure you know. I find it quick and easy enough - at least it's quicker than spending ages correcting a badly sharpened edge. 
I have a whizzy Veritas(?) one too which I bought on a whim, but it's more of a faff as I have to read the instructions every time. Tends to mostly live in its box. 
One consideration is that currently all my planes and chisels are pretty damn sharp and square having been sharpened using a jig so at the moment I'm not keen to rush into the workshop and try hand sharpening.
Perhaps next time I drop a chisel and it needs more of a workout I'll give hand sharpening another go as there are some useful tips on here.
My neighbour (now deceased) was a time-served carpenter and joiner, and although he could make furniture his real interest was in making one-off doors and windows for older properties - big sash windows with wavy glazing bars that sort of thing. His everyday chisels were nearly all Marples with the blue plastic handles. I could see that some of them weren't dead square, but he seemed able to keep them super-sharp with a quick rub on a stone. Habit of a lifetime I guess. 
Being an amateur (drifting OT a bit here), I find that I lose my edge a bit if I haven’t cut certain joints for a while. The first couple sometimes don't stand close inspection, but by the time I've cut maybe half a dozen dovetails by hand I'm getting the hang of it again!


----------



## TRITON (1 Apr 2021)

Powered to grind, hand cut to hone 
Standing for 15 hours trying to put a sharp edge on a chipped blade is just plain nuts. 

Small eclipse holder is very good, so good infact its sellling at a premium on the bay, and even Lie Neilsen have made a copy. But of course you'd have to be mental in the brain pan to buy the LN one at over 100 quid.


----------



## Jacob (1 Apr 2021)

TRITON said:


> Powered to grind, hand cut to hone
> Standing for 15 hours trying to put a sharp edge on a chipped blade is just plain nuts.
> 
> .......


I agree. 
But in fact grinding by hand doesn't take that long if you _have_ to do it. Has to be freehand though so you can put some welly into it. Even faster if you bolt your plane blade to a lath so you can put both hands and a lot of energy into it. 
"Fast and energetic" are the terms missing from modern sharpening - neither are possible with a jig and modern sharpeners have lost sight of what is possible.


----------



## Cozzer (1 Apr 2021)

My chisels are all "inherited", with handles missing, splattered with paint, and chipped to death in the main. 
I caught a Paul Sellars video some time ago praising an el cheapo set from Aldi, and thought "Great! I'll grab a set of them!"
A few years on, I'm still waiting for a re-stock!


----------



## D_W (2 Apr 2021)

The aldi chisels are hit or miss. I've seen some quoted as striking 62 hardness, and others 58. The former will seem like a great chisel, and the latter, a dud.


----------



## D_W (2 Apr 2021)

But even two cherries are that. Claim 61, and some have tested 58.


----------



## TRITON (2 Apr 2021)

Jacob said:


> I agree.
> But in fact grinding by hand doesn't take that long if you _have_ to do it. Has to be freehand though so you can put some welly into it. Even faster if you bolt your plane blade to a lath so you can put both hands and a lot of energy into it.
> "Fast and energetic" are the terms missing from modern sharpening - neither are possible with a jig and modern sharpeners have lost sight of what is possible.


I've got 60 fking chisels


----------



## Jameshow (2 Apr 2021)

swisstony said:


> I didn't want my first ever post to be a bone of contention ! But be a member of enough forums over the years to understand there is a always a list of topics that gets everyone going. Bet pocket holes are right up there


Can we take about helmets, disc brakes, steel Vs carbon bikes?!!! 

Sorry I'm on the wrong forum!! 

Cheers James


----------



## Jacob (2 Apr 2021)

TRITON said:


> I've got 60 fking chisels


Yes, but you can only use one at a time and you can only sharpen one at a time, which is a lucky coincidence!


----------



## novocaine (2 Apr 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Can we take about helmets, disc brakes, steel Vs carbon bikes?!!!
> 
> Sorry I'm on the wrong forum!!
> 
> Cheers James


Helmets are for girls. Discs are for mountain bikes a plastic bikes all break. I had a mate of a mate tell me so. 


Note. Yes i wear a helmet, 1 of my road bikes has discs and i own 2 steel bikes.


----------



## TRITON (2 Apr 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Can we take about helmets, disc brakes, steel Vs carbon bikes?!!!
> 
> Sorry I'm on the wrong forum!!
> 
> Cheers James


General off topic section on here somewhere, try there.

Helmets - Dont wear one(except off road)
Brakes - Well its Hope or nothing( well maybe saint or 4 pot xt)
Steel may be real, but its too heavy, and carbon, well thats still an unknown force. I'l stick to alloy and ti.



Jacob said:


> Yes, but you can only use one at a time and you can only sharpen one at a time, which is a lucky coincidence!


I'm horribly lazy, and got a number of doubles(and triples) so instead of doing the right thing and grind/sharpen/hone i just pick up another.
Of course this is great until they all get dull and you're left with the nightmare job of resharpening them all


----------



## G S Haydon (2 Apr 2021)

A good honing guide is cheap. Less than £10.00 for a perfectly good clone of an eclipse.

Grinding a thick iron (old wooden plane irons or modern thick version) is not much fun. You can do without one but eventually it will be useful to have a grinder. Many people who enjoy hand tools have a big bandsaw but turn their nose up at a grinder.

Freehand is great to learn and for me is preferred. I couldn't care less if a guide is preferred. Please do give one a try if it helps you.


----------



## Jacob (2 Apr 2021)

novocaine said:


> Helmets are for girls. Discs are for mountain bikes a plastic bikes all break. I had a mate of a mate tell me so.
> 
> 
> Note. Yes i wear a helmet, 1 of my road bikes has discs and i own 2 steel bikes.


My road bike is titanium with carbon forks. My tourer is steel Dawes Galaxy
Helmets weren't invented when I started cycling but I've been nagged into wearing one lately and don't like it.


----------



## Cozzer (2 Apr 2021)

My mate Vernon was one of - if not the first - bike builder in the UK to be able to weld titanium stuff.
Just sayin'...


----------



## ian33a (3 Apr 2021)

Carbon fibre, discs and always a helmet. 

Too many of my cycling buddies have been pleased to have worn one when their head hits the road. I've yet to experience this pleasure and don't want to audition for the part.


----------



## Jameshow (3 Apr 2021)

I was joking just making the point about contentious subjects on all forum!!

No more forum drift I'm out on my bike 100 miles today!! 

Cheers James


----------



## Cheshirechappie (3 Apr 2021)

Hmmm ..... bikes. eh?

A bit of minor modification, and you could have a pedal-powered grindstone.

Just sayin' ...


----------



## ian33a (3 Apr 2021)

Cheshirechappie said:


> Hmmm ..... bikes. eh?
> 
> A bit of minor modification, and you could have a pedal-powered grindstone.
> 
> Just sayin' ...



Pretty easy really : just remove the metal flywheel, replace it with a grindstone and my Turbo trainer will be honing chisels all day long !


----------



## D_W (3 Apr 2021)

ian33a said:


> Pretty easy really : just remove the metal flywheel, replace it with a grindstone and my Turbo trainer will be honing chisels all day long !



There's more than one second or third world trade sharpener riding around on a bike that can be shifted between riding and turning a grind stone above the front wheel.


----------



## Cheshirechappie (3 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> There's more than one second or third world trade sharpener riding around on a bike that can be shifted between riding and turning a grind stone above the front wheel.


Put the frame on a stand and apply some green compound to the back tyre, and you've got a pedal-powered strop as well.


----------



## ian33a (3 Apr 2021)

I may sell my Tormek and use my Turbo trainer with a grinding wheel. At my age, my cadence on the trainer is about the same as the RPM of my Tormek and I can use my sweat as the grinding wheel lubricant.


----------



## Brill88 (9 Apr 2021)

swisstony said:


> Morning all
> 
> First post for me and why not start with a complete novice question. I have an assortment of chisels that all need sharpening. I haven't a clue what to buy or for that matter how to actually sharpen the chisels but I guess you tube will be the best source. Still remains what is a good set to start with ?
> 
> ...


Wouldn’t bother with Waterstones I hadn’t got anyone to teach me so went the awful root of buying different things and hoping for best in truth if your after a cost effective way of hand sharpening and they are an investment mine but getting 3 different diamond stones is a good bet I wish I’d done that from the start but now due to arthritis that wouldn’t be an option for me so much so I use a Robert sorby pro edge but do touch up with a very fine vintage stone but also still strip the the chisels with a home made strop


----------



## D_W (9 Apr 2021)

G S Haydon said:


> DW, cult TV of the 90's, The Fast Show




Nice! Needless to say, I didn't see that show in the states - probably could've with a 15 foot satellite dish back then (if anyone remembers the days that most of the programming routed through satellites was unscrambled - your areas may not be as rural as ours, but in really rural areas without a through-the-air signal back then, you'd see all kinds of contraptions just trying to get any kind of media/entertainment - especially for places in mountains/valleys).


----------



## TRITON (9 Apr 2021)

Seems to be an uncanny number of cyclists on this woodworking forum.

Is there a connection 

Personally went from 5 bikes to one and had the biggest Hope collection in the UK outwith Hope's own museum. although I've still a number of Hope prototypes in the now diminished collection.(I bought a Hope engineers personal stash a bit back via another forum). 

Think ill start a bike thread rather than cluttering up this one.


----------



## D_W (9 Apr 2021)

Even I had a stint with road biking (that stint went away when I moved to a place where it's massively inconvenient to get on a road bike, and now I've got a grandpa cruiser - an 8 speed bike with leather hand grips and a leather seat (but sneaky hard tires). 


Brill88 said:


> Wouldn’t bother with Waterstones I hadn’t got anyone to teach me so went the awful root of buying different things and hoping for best in truth if your after a cost effective way of hand sharpening and they are an investment mine but getting 3 different diamond stones is a good bet I wish I’d done that from the start but now due to arthritis that wouldn’t be an option for me so much so I use a Robert sorby pro edge but do touch up with a very fine vintage stone but also still strip the the chisels with a home made strop



Someday, I hope to show people who buy lots of diamond stones the virtue of an india and inexpensive oilstone.


----------



## G S Haydon (9 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> Nice! Needless to say, I didn't see that show in the states - probably could've with a 15 foot satellite dish back then (if anyone remembers the days that most of the programming routed through satellites was unscrambled - your areas may not be as rural as ours, but in really rural areas without a through-the-air signal back then, you'd see all kinds of contraptions just trying to get any kind of media/entertainment - especially for places in mountains/valleys).



I've tried a few of the US comedy shows. Best so far, Trailer Park Boys (Conky and the Swaze express is the peak), Always Sunny, F is for Family have hit the spot thus far. The internet is very convenient.


----------



## D_W (9 Apr 2021)

English material isn't that scarce here - it's just not on the major networks. I could TPB you by saying that the "English guy on Roseanne" typifies the English who end up over here (I know....he was irish!)

By TPB, I mean that that's actually a Canadian show, and not just a little Canadian like the ones right across the border, but all the way up in halifax. 

I LOVE it, though. 

As far as English shows go, the nuttier the better for me - though I have a soft spot for Doc Martin as he talks to people the way I sometimes wish I could (which means that I sometimes probably do that, but I'm not standing from the same position of strength as his character is - i just talk like that, anyway). 

I don't watch much TV any longer, so I couldn't really give a good idea of what a good American show would be. I like believable shows, or absurd in the other direction, and not the types that try to be smart and elite. I remember Tina Fey at one point lecturing the entirety of the american public because of how much smarter and better he show was than most of what was on TV elsewhere and something along the lines of if people were smarter, they'd like her show more. 

It reminds me of what I've heard a comedian say about jokes - if your jokes are so exclusive so as to be hard for most people to follow (or uninteresting), then that's not funny no matter how smart you think you are. 

Believable is a different thing to different people. Growing up rural with parents who liked to do things like stay several blocks off of the beach when we did go (which is more than some had at the time), the shows on TV where people were on cruises or flying all over the place - completely unrelatable to me. Cliff Huxtable and (can't remember his name) living in a giant stone house in NY as a ob-gyn and an attorney, completely unfathomable. So unrelatable that I didn't even get how exclusive a house like theirs would be. 

Roseanne, on the other hand - I knew those people from working in a cabinet factory. Same folks were up and down the assembly line with fast quips and one liners, just like the show. 

The drummer in my high school band was maybe a little too close to TPB, but he was that by choice.


----------



## Brill88 (10 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> Even I had a stint with road biking (that stint went away when I moved to a place where it's massively inconvenient to get on a road bike, and now I've got a grandpa cruiser - an 8 speed bike with leather hand grips and a leather seat (but sneaky hard tires).
> 
> 
> Someday, I hope to show people who buy lots of diamond stones the virtue of an india and inexpensive oilstone.


You mean an old oil stone or the cheap onse you can get ? I’ve got vintage oil stones I tend to use lord knows how much they’d cost though


----------



## D_W (10 Apr 2021)

Anything that hones a large flat surface neatly and slows down when most of the scratches are out of the surface, and then can hone just the tip of the bevel side to a polish quickly without raising more than jus a very fine burr that's neatly removed on bare leather with reasonable pressure.

There's an enormous number of natural oilstones that meet that description. Washitas do it, as do second tier stones like the Dan's hard (The inexpensive level below the black and trans stones).


----------



## D_W (10 Apr 2021)

To be clear, that includes both old and new. Ultra fine is better chased with polishes and graded powders than top cost stones. The former is much cheaper and can easily be far finer if chasing a Jones. The advent of inexpensive microscopes has put to bed the myth that there are magic stones that defy logic, and the truly fine stones are always slow.


----------



## AESamuel (10 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> To be clear, that includes both old and new. Ultra fine is better chased with polishes and graded powders than top cost stones. The former is much cheaper and can easily be far finer if chasing a Jones. The advent of inexpensive microscopes has put to bed the myth that there are magic stones that defy logic, and the truly fine stones are always slow.



The thing that's alway got to me though is the backs of tools like chisels. I've never had much luck removing a burr from the back of a tool with polishes/strops. I've always had to use a stone to flip it to the bevel side and then use the strop to remove it there. I don't really like having to do that with anything but a very fine stone or else large scratches accumulate.


----------



## D_W (10 Apr 2021)

That's more or less my suggestion above - quite often, you may see someone like jacob advocating finishing an edge with an india, but the outcome is poor (a plane isn't very sharp and you'll be back to the stones far sooner, completely negating not working the tip of the tool on a finer stone). 

A washita or what dan's calls a "hard" but not "true hard" arkansas stone will break in leaving a very small wire edge that comes off in bare leather. It's good policy to tease the wire edge a bit thinner with back and forth light passes before going to the leather (takes a couple of seconds, eliminates any chance the burr will have much strength).


----------



## richarddownunder (3 May 2021)

With apologies to Dr Seuss



Woodworkers are handy.

They cut up trees.

They eat their lunch.

They are easy to please.

But get them on sharpening, edges and honing,

then some of them get all insistent and moaning



“There’s only one way, and its my way, and best,

You’d fail in an instant if you took a test.

If you use all manner of things that will aid,

*You will fail!*

Despite all the good things you have made.



But today you are you, that is truer than true,

there is no one alive that is youer than you.

You have brains in your head, you have feet in your shoes,

you can sharpen your axe anyway that you choose.



Should we be worried?

Not one little bit

If you hone with a guide or you stand or you sit.

It’s things that you build with your hands and your head

That’s the important bit when all is said.

We shouldn’t insist there is only one way

The effect is it takes the fun all away.



I could go on a bunch, but its the end of my lunch… 

Cheers
Richard


----------



## paulrbarnard (3 May 2021)

TRITON said:


> I've got 60 fking chisels


Are they similar to bevel edge chisels or more like firmer chisels? Hazarding a guess I would think firmer...


----------



## TRITON (3 May 2021)

nann na naa na na na  Bevel edged 


I've actually only got one firmer. A gigantic 15mm square thats 14" long and a lovely hornbeam handle i got from heavens knows where.


----------



## Jacob (3 May 2021)

TRITON said:


> nann na naa na na na  Bevel edged
> 
> 
> I've actually only got one firmer. A gigantic 15mm square thats 14" long and a lovely hornbeam handle i got from heavens knows where.


That sounds like a sash mortice chisel.


----------



## TRITON (3 May 2021)

Possibly. Its for depth, though I thought maybe paring deep into a mortise. I use it occasionally but tbh i dont really have a use for it. 

Interested to know why you thought I'd have lots of firmer chisels. Are you accusing me of being a rough joiner ???


----------



## D_W (3 May 2021)

TRITON said:


> Possibly. Its for depth, though I thought maybe paring deep into a mortise. I use it occasionally but tbh i dont really have a use for it.
> 
> Interested to know why you thought I'd have lots of firmer chisels. Are you accusing me of being a rough joiner ???



sometimes, you gotta build crude stuff like benches and beds!! (not that you can't do those with bench chisels).


----------



## TRITON (4 May 2021)

Aye well theres bench chisels and theres bench chisels. The Lie/N's are for fine work, the Stanleys for bashing my way in :lol:


----------



## D_W (4 May 2021)

The few american posters on here have to adjust what they're thinking when you say stanley, as the 750s are popular here and generally the same shape as the LNs. So I envision you using the LNs and then using almost the same chisel with a heavier hammer. Presumably, you're talking about 5000 series chisels? They're never or almost never found over here (the marples types are common, though - blue handled).


----------

