# Creativity & Development of concepts



## Wood spoiler (18 Aug 2011)

I have been having thoughts when looking at others work of not just an appreciation of what has been created, but also of how I could take an idea and put my own twist to it.

Moving that basic concept forward how about another type of thread?

Someone post a thread of an original piece and instead of requesting comment and critique, explain what you are trying to achieve or what prompted the piece. Having seen the piece - others so moved take that idea, concept or element that has stimulated the creative juices and make another piece to be posted on that thread, explaining what you have taken and what you have developed, so we will be left with threads of creative development work. 

I see this as Virtual collaboration and development work, in the way that others have done physical development pieces 

Well that's enough creativity from me for one go - what do you all make of these ramblings?


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## gus3049 (19 Aug 2011)

Wood spoiler":22awjm1w said:


> I have been having thoughts when looking at others work of not just an appreciation of what has been created, but also of how I could take an idea and put my own twist to it.
> 
> Moving that basic concept forward how about another type of thread?
> 
> ...



Wow!

Its nearly 6am here so 5ish in the UK. A bit early to digest big subjects like this. After breakfast and a bit of cogitation, I think I'll try reading that again.

My initial reaction is "how do we nick someone's idea and give it our own slant. Guilty as charged yer honour but then don't we all. I think creative development sounds a lot better  

I'll get back to you.


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## CHJ (19 Aug 2011)

Just go and spin some wood, if its to produce something in a form you have seen then you will soon know if it's something you want to develope further or leave well alone because it does not hit the spot.

Shed time, shed time, shed time, it's a hobby, you only have to please yourself, if others like it it's a bonus, why follow the preferences of others, they may be sheep.

Tool use safety is the only area in my opinion that you should follow established guidance, once beyond appreciating the basics of form flow, and there are hundreds of daily items around you to use as examples then go and establish your own personality on the wood.


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## boysie39 (19 Aug 2011)

Wood spoiler":3boj98rf said:


> I have been having thoughts when looking at others work of not just an appreciation of what has been created, but also of how I could take an idea and put my own twist to it.
> 
> Moving that basic concept forward how about another type of thread?
> 
> ...



Colin does this mean that someone like me who just turns the odd bowl ,platter ,plate ,mushroom, etc
might be left on the sidelines so to speake as my work would not be considered thought provoking enough
and me after just getting the hang of embraceing you all with pictures of my masterpieces.

Or are we being nudged towards the Artistic side of woodturning or as I would call it the ceramic look of woodturning. I suppose it could be said that my views on turning are very basic and others can see a lot more to it than I can, having seen Binh Po and Joey Richardson in action I think my views on turning are very much on the 
blinkered hobby give it away (if anyone will take it) side of things.

I'm sure from looking at the postings on the forum that there are many who would share your way of thinking and fair play to you all, look forward to seeing how it pans out.

REgards Boysie


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## gus3049 (19 Aug 2011)

Right, I've read it again.

I, as usual, have a foot in both camps. I understand Chas's comments as I am quite sure my process is to stick the wood on the lathe and see what happens. Occasionally however, I do try and see if I can copy something and/or modify it to reflect 'my style' and am, obviously, interested in how the original was achieved.

I strongly suspect however, that most people wouldn't 'intellectualise' (wot a norrid word) what they are doing at all. I would hate to discourage discussion but don't think that many people would join in this sort of thing in any 'official' way. There is nothing to stop any of us asking how things are done and we know that the members of this forum are only to happy too share when asked.

Next idea??


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## jumps (19 Aug 2011)

Gordon,

I suspect that everyone thinks a little about each piece, and yes Boysie that includes basic bowls etc

Whether such though contributes on an intellectual level to another's learning process is difficult to predict - obviously most believe that the more complex, and often 'different', pieces are the more likely it would.

For my money Colin's proposal has huge merit at every level, but on the other hand, it's already done to a significant degree within most of the thread discussions on pieces. It's natural.


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## gus3049 (19 Aug 2011)

jumps":iagdjvkd said:


> For my money Colin's proposal has huge merit at every level, but on the other hand, it's already done to a significant degree within most of the thread discussions on pieces. It's natural.



I guess that's what I was trying to say in a roundabout way!


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## Wood spoiler (19 Aug 2011)

Judging by the responses thus far I think that as an idea it is unlikely to be taken up and developed into a full blown concept. 

Blowing my own trumpet I am more than happy to go away and play with ideas and concepts and nick ideas and inspriration as required and feel I am generating originality etc. However we have previously seen collaborations etc or where someone has said this is my take on ABC. The concept was to build and encourage such things (and of course get more piccie posting)

The thought was prompted in many ways as a spin off of the competition where for a month we all become focused on the subject of the challenge. Once that month is over that particular topic is no more as we are on to the next. It would thenbe exploring any aspect that grabbed at any time in the year

Certainly not the object to alienate Boysie


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## boysie39 (19 Aug 2011)

Colin, as if you ever would :wink: 
I think I will have to be more careful in my answering posts.I seem to stop debate rather than encourage it ,I guess I'm beggining to believe my signature :roll: :roll: 

Water off a Donkey or whatever they say. :lol: 

REgards Boysie.


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## gus3049 (19 Aug 2011)

Wood spoiler":86e32w10 said:


> Judging by the responses thus far I think that as an idea it is unlikely to be taken up and developed into a full blown concept.
> 
> Blowing my own trumpet I am more than happy to go away and play with ideas and concepts and nick ideas and inspriration as required and feel I am generating originality etc. However we have previously seen collaborations etc or where someone has said this is my take on ABC. The concept was to build and encourage such things (and of course get more piccie posting)
> 
> ...



I don't think any of us want to pour cold water on what might end up being a good thing. Just because we don't seem particularly for it doesn't mean we are necessarily agin it. Merely that I, anyway, am not sure of the support it would get. 

Why not try one and see what happens rather than asking for opinions?


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## Philip Streeting (19 Aug 2011)

Colin,

It is, possibly, easier to work with a competition brief that specifies an object that most people can identify say a bowl, platter or box as a requirement . Usually there are restrictions attached such as size, decoration, use, function etc. 

A creative brief may seem more demanding in that choices are potentially unlimited and more decisions are required to be made by the maker before starting a piece of work. 

There is a difference between copying and interpreting and if you wish to produce something fresh or different then it is preferable to go to the source of the ideas rather than the maker’s interpreted, finished piece. The new work you produce then becomes your own.

If you would like a sample brief to work to and to see whether this might be helpful to you, then I will happily write one for you. I can either post it here if others would like to try a different way of problem solving or I can send it to you via email if it is only you that is interested in giving it a go.

You will have to bear in mind that there will be no right or wrong solution/s to the problem/s being set and what you make will be your selection.

It would require you to work with some reference pictures supplied. I may add some helpful hints!

I would not want to enter into discussions as this has caused me problems in the past on Forums.

Let me know either here or by PM.

Phil


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## CHJ (19 Aug 2011)

Phil that is a generous offer, one of the things I was trying to infer in my above post and probably did not get across other than as something that in retrospect looks like a negative comment was that an end result is a goal in itself, if it is one that involves you moving your own goalposts as the project develops then you have achieved a great deal of self understanding not an adherence to the ideals of others.

Your de-constructed bowl development is the example that springs readily to mind in trying to express my thoughts.


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## Philip Streeting (19 Aug 2011)

Chas, I didn't read your comments as being negative.

Sometimes it can be difficult for some of us to see things in a different or new way without some guides and pointers. A brief that is not too open ended can sometimes help to unblock thinking and lead the way to an understanding of both one's own and other people's skills, differences, limits and possiblities. 

Phil

P.S.I should have aded to the above, and will now as an edit, that I saw Colin's original bit above as a way of asking for help and support.


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## Silverbirch (19 Aug 2011)

Colin,
I think the notion of posting work which goes beyond the production of an object and focuses on the development of an idea is an excellent suggestion, if I`ve understood correctly what you`re getting at. 
My only observation would be that such a thread would be quite slow to get off the ground, due to the amount of time taken to explore an idea and produce a related piece of work.
How about a hypothetical example of what you have in mind?
Posting work related to a chosen theme, with no stipulation as to what the work produced should be, no closing dates, awards etc. would be interesting.
Philip,
I don`t know if others would be interested, but I would certainly be keen to see a sample brief posted along the lines you are suggesting.

Ian


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## gus3049 (19 Aug 2011)

Silverbirch":3axsx6x2 said:


> Philip,
> I don`t know if others would be interested, but I would certainly be keen to see a sample brief posted along the lines you are suggesting.
> 
> Ian



+1


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## Wood spoiler (19 Aug 2011)

I went to mow the meadow thinking this idea was dead and buried only to Come back in and see it burst into life.

Thanks Phil I really think you've moved it on. I have no idea what a brief looks like let alone work to such a brief. I would love to have a go.

Ian. I genuinely didn't have an idea in mind when I posted but if Phil will post a brief I think it would be great to give it a go and see where it takes us.

I understand Boysie's view and my local mentor John Davis of Stockbridge, encourages my development whilst constantly reminding me of the underlining basic skills to underpin the creative side. Art is good but an honest good looking well made bowl looks stunning too.

If it helps explain where I am coming from. I only make for me and for a few presents. I only have so many flat spaces on which to show my wares. I therefore love shed time but I need to take longer over each piece to get the enjoyment of making and keeping them so I like to experiment ....

I don't think it will be a fast moving thread but I think it could create a lot of interest for those minded to participate.

My ramblings continue - sorry, but pleased to see it move along


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## Philip Streeting (20 Aug 2011)

I will work something out over the weekend and post it as soon as I can.
Phil


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## mark sanger (20 Aug 2011)

An interesting thread.

It became apparent for" me and the way I work" that once I had learnt the tooling that there was a massive void ahead of me. I became bored of producing what I considered work to be that of others. IE I would make pieces similar to Cindy Drozda. 

I am not saying that producing work based on others is wrong. It is I believe a natural course of development to get the tooling working and exploring different styles of work.

To go from a set way of thinking which is has been developed by very formal ways of question and answer/direct solution to a problem will often produce superficial results. 

IE if you want to make a coloured bowl and someone tells you how to colour it then it will probably be a very nice coloured bowl. But if you go into a room with the basic materials and just experiment and play without being told how to, the results are often far more interesting and may lead to a deeper understanding.

Observation is the most important part of my ideas a long way before I make the final piece. At times this process takes months of thinking. 

Observation though, for the creative process has to be as much about the self as the technical. 

IE why am I wanting to make a hollow form in this way with a small hole and of pure highly finished wood. Is it genuinely because I "want" to make it in this way or because without knowing " I am making it in this way to obtain peer acceptance" etc etc. This distinction is often very subtle and at times not obvious. 

So I believe that part of the process has to be to strip away our preconceived, preprogrammed thoughts and to start a fresh. also known in some parts as "beginners mind"

Not some farty way of thinking but a way all sportsman from boxers to synchronised swimmers program the way they work and develop. 

This in itself is not an easy process and will be full of discomfort and a desire to take the easy route back to what we know, the "comfort zone".

By challenging and being given a brief such as Philip is offering, to explore, research and develop is a chance you should not pass up. 

It is no secret that Philip has had a profound effect on my own development and once the penny dropped I was off and away.

But you can not learnt the creative process/development by being given answers. You have to look, observe, challenge and find your own.


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## skeetoids (20 Aug 2011)

Hi Folks,

I find the idea of this thread a bit absurd and quite rude really. There has already been a lot of work on UKW that embodies the sort of thinking that this thread implies but most of it gets ignored or undermined by ill informed or silly remarks.

The thought of starting some sort of thread to explore this idea when there has already been a vast amount of work of this kind serves only to tell me one thing - nobody is really looking at what is being posted. This concerns me a lot as there is so much work to learn from that will help and assist the less creative turner to push and explore themselves in new and undiscovered ways. 

Perhaps I am just an innocent, upstart who doesn't give a damn about tradition. In 100 years we'll all be dead and maybe, just maybe, the odd piece will live on beyond our time.
Although with ignorance on such a grand scale I seriously doubt it.

I doubt i'll contribute any work on this thread as I can't really see the point, no disrespect to anyone who does but it's a bit like a teacher and pupil scenario, and most of the pupils I see don't have any desire to learn anything about anything.

I'm now quite depressed and feeling pretty dung about myself, I have no real idea why by I guess that's something for me to deal with on my own. I would wish you all the best but I don't really care anymore!


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## Wood spoiler (20 Aug 2011)

skeetoids":3my5wrp8 said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I find the idea of this thread a bit absurd and quite rude really. There has already been a lot of work on UKW that embodies the sort of thinking that this thread implies but most of it gets ignored or undermined by ill informed or silly remarks.
> 
> ...



I am sorry - I don't understand your post or motivation behind it.

You have always posted work that is individual and comes from deep seated philosophical understanding - or so it appears. I look - I don't always like or understand, but as I have said before I always want to look at what you post because it is different.

Others of us - such as me do not have an intellectual art or philosphical work background. I took up woodworking as a skill and pastime but have found as I have done more and more and that there is a whole lot more in it. Just like the Monthly Challenge that takes us outside of our comfort zones in a prescribed format I find myself looking for ways to develop personal tastes which is the road I have been going down with my carved items and other ideas. Somethings we do so on an individual basis whilst others can be developed on a shared basis. 

The shared basis is all that is being proposed.

I am sorry if it has caused offence in any way as the idea is not to undermine anyone or anything. It is all about encouraging a different dimension for those so minded.


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## gus3049 (20 Aug 2011)

Colin,

I can see what Lee is saying but strongly disagree. "Silly" quite often just means "I disagree" and there is nothing rude about having failed to benefit from things that have already been on the forum. It might depend on the stage one is at and might be of no benefit at the time and there will be new turners joining all the time. Any encouragement at any time towards finding your 'creative' side is a good thing. There will always be those that either can't see the point or are happy with where they are. This thread is not for them.

I think Lee's post is more a reflection of how he is feeling right now. That is for him to cope with. We can offer support and sympathy but nothing else practical.


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## skeetoids (20 Aug 2011)

Hi Folks,

I am sorry if my rambings where offensive or unconstructive. You are correct in that any thoughts or expressions that endevour to bring us closer together are a good thing and should be welcomed and recieved in the spirit in which they are intended.

Often my mind works in a different way to most and this can create feelings of isolation, frustration and depression. These are no result of any other but are my own personal demons so to speak. It was indeed undignified and thoughtless of me to loose control in this way and to say I now feel a little sheepish is understandable.

When I am involved in a creative piece or idea or discussion it will sometimes make me feel that I have a steering wheel in my underpants, ergo 'it drives me nuts!' LOL!

Now you'll have to excuse me, my claymore needs polishing and i've got some deep fried mars bars on the go, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Cheers,

Lee.


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## mark sanger (20 Aug 2011)

Hi Colin, Lee and all. 

I have never yet come across a discussion about the creative process that has not at some stage involved a heated debate. This I believe is part of the process as it takes a lot to look at what we are doing and to be told either by another or through our own experimentation that we should or could be doing it differently if we so decide to take it in that direction. 

Any way. I wish you all the best with your endevours.


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## Philip Streeting (21 Aug 2011)

I have considered what response I might make to Lee's comments and subsequent posts in this thread.

I have no desire to cause heated debates here - they have happened on another Forum and I have no desire to repeat the experience.

On reflection I now regret getting involved and feel it best to withdraw my offer.

There are a number of published sources for those wishing to increase their knowledge of design and creative approaches to turning. A good starting point could be the new Derek Hayes book - Woodturning Design.

Best wishes

Phil


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## gus3049 (21 Aug 2011)

Philip Streeting":2xevhbkp said:


> I have considered what response I might make to Lee's comments and subsequent posts in this thread.
> 
> I have no desire to cause heated debates here - they have happened on another Forum and I have no desire to repeat the experience.
> 
> ...



Now that is a shame. Those of us at the beginning of our turning 'career' would surely benefit from the sort of offer made and withdrawn.

Lee's post was made on the spur of the moment reflecting how he felt at that time and he has obviously regretted it. I clearly have no knowledge of what happened elsewhere but I would, respectfully, say that I can't see how the debate has been heated in any way. Lee's comments are in isolation and I was surprised at Mark's comments. They were just that though - no discussion at all. I don't understand why, what is really a philosophical journey, should raise any temperatures.

One doesn't like to beg and you must as you feel but I am sure there are several of us who would appreciate it if you will reconsider. We were certainly looking forward to it.


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## CHJ (21 Aug 2011)

Philip Streeting":337xo4if said:


> .....On reflection I now regret getting involved and feel it best to withdraw my offer.
> .....Phil




Please don't do either Phil, there should be no personal regrets about trying to help others to achieve a greater understanding of the craft.
I hope you re-consider and carry on with your input, you have a distinctive insight and practical ability that many would aspire to and anything that points the way can only be a benefit to the whole.

Some around here have been scratching away at improving our skills for many years, not months, and are more than happy to have our eyes opened to new horizons.


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## Silverbirch (21 Aug 2011)

> I am sure there are several of us who would appreciate it if you will reconsider. We were certainly looking forward to it.


Myself, for one.


> Some around here have been scratching away at improving our skills for many years, not months, and are more than happy to have our eyes opened to new horizons.



I think it`s probably true to say that many people here (including myself) have had limited experience and guidance in the more creative aspects of our craft(?). Advice and support in the realm of ideas and creativity, is much harder to come by than it is in the more technical aspects of woodturning. This is where discussion, guidance and sharing of ideas can be so beneficial, as it can be difficult to crystallise ideas which may be floating around, half formed in our heads.
The posts so far have indicated a level of interest which I`m sure can be built upon. 
I hope we can keep the momentum going.

Ian


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## boysie39 (21 Aug 2011)

Please Phil, as a total plonker regarding the work you and Mark and George and others whom I can not recall at the moment post on the forum please reconsider your offer. I have no idea as to whats involved but if you can spare the time there are many on here who would benifit from your imput.

There are turners on herewho are only waiting for the chance for to learn from you guys. Please dont deprive them of that chance because somebody is having a bad day and is regretting his post now. Me it's too late for, I'm the bread and drip type and any thing but the old school is hard for me to understand. But I hate to say this I like looking at what you guys do, I may not understand it ,but who knows mayde I could learn.
This time next year I might be suggesting things that you fellows might take heed of.
Now where was I, Oh yes open the door for them maybe everyone could benifit. 

REgards Boysie39


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## Wood spoiler (22 Aug 2011)

I truly hope that Phil will reconsider if only on a one off basis to give us an idea of how to start. I absolutely agree with Ian's comments.

It would be a shame if Lee's fit of pique, for which he has apologised, were to deprive us of a personal development opportunity.

There is the irony that the object of our being lambasted by Lee (before his apology) was for the very thing Lee has just proclaimed his pride in and shown with such a successful outcome, namely his collaboration with Mark. 

On this thread a number of us have declared that this is a project/direction that we would like to see develop and it would be great if that could be with the support of Phil who clearly has great experience in these matters.

If that turns out not to be, which would be a great shame, how else do we, as members of the Forum, move this Creative process forward?


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## Philip Streeting (22 Aug 2011)

While I sort out some detailed problems to solve, here is an exercise to start the ball rolling.

This exercise is about improvising with things found around the workshop and a first example of looking at a problem to see what are the limitations, what are the possibilities and how you might be creative in interpreting a brief?

A nail can fix two pieces of wood together using a hammer to drive the nail into the wood. A nail, usually has a head at one end and is pointed at the opposite end - it could be used to make marks on a piece of wood. How many different ways can you find to create textures or patterns on a piece of hardwood using a nail? Sycamore, lime or beech might be the best wood to use - it should be flat and sanded before starting work on it. 

Example textures (min. 1.5cm square) with a short description on methods and techniques used should be shared. 

Phil


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## Wood spoiler (23 Aug 2011)

Philip Streeting":1f9o5yim said:


> While I sort out some detailed problems to solve, here is an exercise to start the ball rolling.
> 
> This exercise is about improvising with things found around the workshop and a first example of looking at a problem to see what are the limitations, what are the possibilities and how you might be creative in interpreting a brief?
> 
> ...



Thanks Phil for continuing to support us. It is appreciated.

A thought provoking starter exercise. The brain cells are running. 

Looking forward to a different kind of shed time


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## Jonzjob (23 Aug 2011)

A flat sanded nail could be used for carving. :mrgreen:

I'll get me coat


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## Philip Streeting (23 Aug 2011)

Spot on John! A nail is a punch too. No mention in the brief that a grinder or a file can't be used - or different sized nails with different shaped heads etc. Hardened steel nails, copper nails................ what qualities in a nail are able to be exploited?

Phil


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## CHJ (23 Aug 2011)

Soon you'll be discussing what shade of Nail polish to finish the piece off :twisted: 

Have fun folks.


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## Jonzjob (23 Aug 2011)

Heat it up and use it for pyrography only use a pair of pliers or burn yer digits.. Oh! Sorry Digit


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## Philip Streeting (23 Aug 2011)

Yep burning sounds good, copper nail may conduct heat better. In a drill, textured end will burn too and if shaped will cut maybe. 

Nail polish comes later! I don't see any problems getting in touch with the feminine side if it helps Chas!

Phil


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## Jonzjob (23 Aug 2011)

:idea: Lots of 1/2' panel pins tapped into the wood and a pattern made with coloured threads? Chas' nail polish could be used to seal the knots?


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## boysie39 (23 Aug 2011)

Jonzjob":1wa3tecb said:


> :idea: Lots of 1/2' panel pins tapped into the wood and a pattern made with coloured threads? Chas' nail polish could be used to seal the knots?



John, would you ever keep your nose out of Phillip's masterclass.

I have a 6' plank with every nail imaginable hammered into it.I have unravelled Two of Clairs cardigines .Have threaded
the wool around all the nails

I have used all her nail polish all this without her knowing, came up for me tea and she asked what was I making.

I am now giving her your email address :twisted: :twisted:


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## Philip Streeting (23 Aug 2011)

Tell her you have taken up rug weaving Eugene - she may well be impressed by your efforts!  
Phil


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## Jonzjob (23 Aug 2011)

Phillip, some you win? And some you just give up on? #-o #-o


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## gus3049 (23 Aug 2011)

Jonzjob":dmx8i27y said:


> Phillip, some you win? And some you just give up on? #-o #-o



Who do you mean John, You or Eugene or both?? :lol:


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## Jonzjob (23 Aug 2011)

Yes? Well I think that is yes, but it maybe maybe or yes or no :? 

But whatever, I think it was something to do with one of those forigeners from that island West of England and as no-one has yet had the sense to dig Offers Dyke a lot deeper it's further West than that?

My brain cell 'urts! Must be me medicin and bed time?


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## CHJ (23 Aug 2011)

As long as she did not class it as Tacky you'll have Nailed it Eugene.

Pity I'm too busy with visitors at the moment sounds an interesting challenge, just how many variations are there on any given theme.


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## boysie39 (23 Aug 2011)

Philip Streeting":1cdsz5tx said:


> Tell her you have taken up rug weaving Eugene - she may well be impressed by your efforts!
> Phil



Phil. it's that bloke over in fro France fault, he derailed me . In the mean time glad that you are going to help those 
that need help. I will do all I can to spur them on. :wink: :wink: 

In the meantime I'm off to the Arran Isles to learn knitting. :lol: :lol:


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## boysie39 (23 Aug 2011)

Chas.
Would that have anything to do with, THE HARRY LIME THEME, 

Now less frivoltites Phil and me have work to do.

Over to you Phil.


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## Wood spoiler (23 Aug 2011)

boysie39":3aaa3xka said:


> Now less frivoltites Phil and me have work to do.
> 
> Over to you Phil.



In my grey cells I have been plotting how to use my first layers of texturing to make you an official Deputy badge, so that Phil the Sherrif can be confidant that you will be there to whip us all into line with your fancy knitted new whip (leastways that's how I interpreted your new found knitting skills.


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## Philip Streeting (24 Aug 2011)

Anyone else started yet? Here's a few I did yesterday. The idea is to create a library of doodles and/or usable ideas that it it possible to return to later. I have made notes that describe how each texture was made and details of the nail or modified nail used. I will show these later if required.







Next stage might be to stain or colour as another experiment to see whether that would enhance the appearance of the texture.

Phil


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## gus3049 (24 Aug 2011)

Hi Philip,

Didn't manage as many as you but there's this nasty business of paying the mortgage an' stuff to do, and cook a curry for six tonight, which means having to clean the dining room........ which means I'm blathering on with excuses.

Apart from a couple with the pointy end, I thought the possibilities with the head were more interesting. Will continue tomorrow.


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## Jonzjob (24 Aug 2011)

It has been said that you've always been a head banger though?

I have to go and empty a lump of tulip wood now to see if there is a 12" bowl in there? I have to make sure the chuck is screwed down rock solid, because it tried to unscrew one time when I hit the stop button and the motor break came on :shock: :shock:


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## Silverbirch (24 Aug 2011)

Hmmm......
Not as easy as I first thought . These were the result of thumping a round head nail into a piece of lime in various ways. I have one or two different approaches up my sleeve which I`ll try out in between turning bits of jewellery  

Ian


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## Philip Streeting (28 Aug 2011)

Brief: Produce a piece of turned wood using the attached pictures as reference.

Below you will find two pictures of flower remains found earlier this year. There are many design elements that can be observed, extracted and used within a piece of turned work.

Some of those elements might include shape, form, planes, line, colour, pattern and texture. 

Look carefully at the detail in the pictures then make some notes and small sketches of some of the possibilities that may occur to you. 

As there is no outcome suggested so you are free to use anything you observe and note as interesting on any turned shape you choose to produce.

There are no size limitations.

Your choice of wood should reflect the needs of your chosen design elements and the decisions you make on their use within your piece of work.


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## gus3049 (28 Aug 2011)

This is becoming interesting. My wife looked at the plants and said "they are just plants" To which I, of course said "oh no they're not, they are a series of shapes against a background" But then, many many years ago, when I was at Camberwell, we were taught to draw by not actually looking at what we were seeing but how the various elements interact.

Quite why I have managed to either forget or ignore all my training I have no idea. I suppose its because there is an fixed idea or an image of what it means to be a woodworker or a turner and that's what people do - they make round things. EXACTLY what I have been struggling to escape in my own grasshopper like way.

This could well help me push a bit. So thanks to Colin and to Philip.


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## Jonzjob (28 Aug 2011)

Sorry, but I think that I must have come in part way through this conversation? I have NO idea as to what either of you are talking about? But then again I think that the Tate Modern is the biggest con that has so far been thrust on London so who am I to comment?

I have never been to "Art school" so I am probably missing out on how or why a painting with a woman with both ears on one side of her head could ever have been accepted as anything more than something produced by a 4 year old? Never mind fetch 6 figure ££££ figures?

Can we return to the English language and if it's possible to describe what has been said in that language I'm all ears, all be it one each side :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## gus3049 (28 Aug 2011)

Jonzjob":2us4m5ly said:


> Sorry, but I think that I must have come in part way through this conversation? I have NO idea as to what either of you are talking about? But then again I think that the Tate Modern is the biggest con that has so far been thrust on London so who am I to comment?
> 
> I have never been to "Art school" so I am probably missing out on how or why a painting with a woman with both ears on one side of her head could ever have been accepted as anything more than something produced by a 4 year old? Never mind fetch 6 figure ££££ figures?
> 
> Can we return to the English language and if it's possible to describe what has been said in that language I'm all ears, all be it one each side :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



I have looked carefully at what has been written here and I find that every word we have used appears in every dictionary of the English language I can find  

Therefore I must assume that you speak a different dialect perhaps. North of the Thames?? That's all foreign to me. Even living in Suffolk seemed a long way from civilisation.

Views on art are always going to be diverse and there are going to be some things that some people, no matter how intelligent, are just not going to connect to. I think, John, you may have to accept that this thread is not for you. Even when carefully explained, certain things will always draw a blank look. For me, its music that causes problems. The sheer variety of forms is such that what drives friends into raptures, leaves me cold and actually makes my head hurt. Thats OK. 

Its what makes life interesting init?


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## gus3049 (29 Aug 2011)

I've been thinking about my reply to Jonzjob and feel it might appear a bit dismissive.

Perhaps the bit that appeared to be a foreign concept was the bit about how we look at things.

If you take a holly leaf for instance. The problem is that we all have a database of information that we compare things against. If you try and draw a holly leaf, the likelihood is that you will always end up with the same one because you 'know' what it looks like. What you need to do is draw this particular leaf. So forget its a leaf. What it actually is, is a series of shapes that interact with each other. Each curve will be different, each spike a different length, each vein a different shape. So look at the shapes not the fact that you know its a leaf. Each shape will also sit on a background so you have to see how those interact as well. Look at each element and gradually the 'actual' thing you are looking at will appear.

There is a real difference between looking and seeing. Breaking things down into elements and putting them in a different arrangement might seem bizarre but some artists seem to have the knack of giving an additional view or insight of things this way. Not everyone will see it of course but thats OK too. For me, those artists who are able to draw brilliantly in a traditional way are the ones I trust to offer a different slant. This cuts out quite a few that I see making a fortune these days but that too I can accept because, strangely enough, I don't know ....!

I think all those words were in English


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## gus3049 (29 Aug 2011)

Hi Phil,

Are you 'expecting' us to show the ideas, sketches etc? Would this be of interest? Or would you expect us to produce something. I know there are no fixed rules to this but it would be an entertaining part of the process I think, to see people's thought processes as they develop.


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## Philip Streeting (29 Aug 2011)

Gus,

Good to see your contributions and also John's and others.

It does say discussion at the start of thread and I guess some viewing the thread will have mixed reactions to what they see happenning, expressed or shown and they may not wish to express an opinion or contribute.

As far as where the thread goes from here I did say earlier that all I would do is start a ball rolling, it is up to Colin and those contributing to decide how the thread develops. My understanding of Colin's original request was for contributors to show, express, discuss how they are approaching the problem posed and help each other to develop the theme by example and discussion. You have begun to do this by describing how drawing and observation helps us to see things.

Some may not draw well and may be embarrassed to upload sketches but might be happy to descibe in words their thoughts and ideas. Whatever is decided it remains important to be as inclusive as possible. In the end it is the journey and the outcome that is important not the methods used to get there. 

My view is that usually a brief is asking questions and those questions and answers may be about self not the problem being posed.

Phil


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## boysie39 (30 Aug 2011)

Jonzjob":u7oygqre said:


> Sorry, but I think that I must have come in part way through this conversation? I have NO idea as to what either of you are talking about? But then again I think that the Tate Modern is the biggest con that has so far been thrust on London so who am I to comment?
> 
> I have never been to "Art school" so I am probably missing out on how or why a painting with a woman with both ears on one side of her head could ever have been accepted as anything more than something produced by a 4 year old? Never mind fetch 6 figure ££££ figures?
> 
> Can we return to the English language and if it's possible to describe what has been said in that language I'm all ears, all be it one each side :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



John,
I must say I find it hard to believe that you are finding it hard to understand this thread, :roll: :roll: 
It is perfectly simples. :shock: :shock:


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## Wood spoiler (30 Aug 2011)

Phil

Thanks for your posts

They are appreciated. I am trying my best to translate what I am seeing to something to make a meaningful interpretation. 

I was sidetracked at the weekend having my Lazy Susan to do - which I had set as task for the weekend. I will try to get my head round the artistic side of my brain (although it does seem slightly deeply implanted somewhat as never been used! ....)


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## gus3049 (30 Aug 2011)

This gets better and better.

For many years I have started abstracts just by plonking something onto paper and then doodling round it to see what develops. Quite why I never thought to apply this to turning I don't know.

So I have just made a little 'hollow form' and I am attacking it with my air tool and have absolutely no idea where it will end up. If its worth looking at I will post pics. The basic form came out of my sketches inspired by Phil's plants.

Excellent


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## gus3049 (30 Aug 2011)

The first reactions to Phil's brief. Just a load of quick doodles using bits from the plant forms. There must be hundreds more to be found.


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## Silverbirch (30 Aug 2011)

Looking at the bits of plant material Philip posted, I thought the centre section suggested a vase type shape with a diagonal or spiral pattern of dots/bumps.
I`ll have a go at transforming my sketches into a turned piece. I have a shape I like(circled) and a pattern to embellish it. 
I need to do some more drawing to get a clearer idea of the pattern I want. I`ll have to think about how I`m going to produce it - carving - pyrography( with my new LIDL £8.99 pyro kit  ) - carving -colouring.....?

Ian


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## gus3049 (31 Aug 2011)

Well then,

Today, amidst starting to lay the kitchen floor, I had a go at the little form as per the sketches. Although it started out being to the design, it gradually developed a life of its own and drifted a little. Way from finished as I don't know where to go next. I might make the inside bit smooth and the outside textured or vici verci. Or not as the mood takes me. It may get coloured. I'm not sure I have the patience to put it away and think about it so I will probably continue to attack it tomorrow.

There is a huge amount of sanding and smoothing necessary to get the inside egg to a good finish. I wonder if there is better way than abrasive on lolly sticks?


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## Jonzjob (31 Aug 2011)

I got one of these years back and it is still going strong http://www.permagrit.com/index.php?cPath=80_82

Bit more expensive than when I got mine. They also do rotary kit now. Have a look at the site, there's all sorts of stuff on there.


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## Wood spoiler (31 Aug 2011)

Ok so pen in hand and paper at the ready!

I doodled but not entirely sure what I will take from it - obviously trying to get to useable concepts. But the pen is NOT mightier than the gouge. It would appear that the larger amount of my "artist" remains as the second word of a well known saying

As I started this - I offer my priceless art work of for the benefit of communal laughter!


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## Wood spoiler (31 Aug 2011)

gus3049":4t7hu5gz said:


> Well then,
> 
> Today, amidst starting to lay the kitchen floor, I had a go at the little form as per the sketches. Although it started out being to the design, it gradually developed a life of its own and drifted a little. Way from finished as I don't know where to go next. I might make the inside bit smooth and the outside textured or vici verci. Or not as the mood takes me. It may get coloured. I'm not sure I have the patience to put it away and think about it so I will probably continue to attack it tomorrow.
> 
> There is a huge amount of sanding and smoothing necessary to get the inside egg to a good finish. I wonder if there is better way than abrasive on lolly sticks?



Interesting start.

these would help. I bought some of the larger stones in a set that was only £4 on a market tool store. the grinding and sanding stones shouldn't break the bank.






The small blue Typhoon Burr at the bottom of the picture will cut on the top surface and removes material most effectively


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## gus3049 (1 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":18sdzrq6 said:


> Ok so pen in hand and paper at the ready!
> 
> I doodled but not entirely sure what I will take from it - obviously trying to get to useable concepts. But the pen is NOT mightier than the gouge. It would appear that the larger amount of my "artist" remains as the second word of a well known saying
> 
> As I started this - I offer my priceless art work of for the benefit of communal laughter!



Laughter is the best medicine. I didn't though. Can't see anything wrong with that. Its not an art competition, just a way of developing ideas. Like everything else though, a bit of practice works wonders.


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## gus3049 (1 Sep 2011)

Jonzjob":3bqq6p9n said:


> I got one of these years back and it is still going strong http://www.permagrit.com/index.php?cPath=80_82
> 
> Bit more expensive than when I got mine. They also do rotary kit now. Have a look at the site, there's all sorts of stuff on there.



Thanks John, Interesting site. I am a bit annoyed with myself because at Breville last week there was a guy selling a set of good looking miniature rasps for €30 which I thought was too much - clearly not.



Wood spoiler":3bqq6p9n said:


> Interesting start.
> 
> these would help. I bought some of the larger stones in a set that was only £4 on a market tool store. the grinding and sanding stones shouldn't break the bank.
> 
> The small blue Typhoon Burr at the bottom of the picture will cut on the top surface and removes material most effectively



The typhoon burrs look interesting. The main problem with this little form is the sections under the outer layer. Apart from getting the 'egg' smooth, i need to do the inside of the outer (!) bit too. One of the problems with this thing is that its in boxwood. Most of the abrasive tools I have either just polish t or burn it at high speed and won't touch it at all at low speed. And I used box because it takes such a good finish!! Easy on the outside of course.


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## gus3049 (1 Sep 2011)

One of the problems I've had with this, is the actual control of the rotary tool when undercutting. I use the Dremel metal burrs for this in the air tool. Although they are round, they tend to jump occasionally and on several occasions have marked the outside surface. It could be, I suppose, that they work better at low speed but I much prefer the air tool as its extremely comfortable to hold whereas the Dremel is clunky. I don't want to have to spend out further on an extension. 

Because of the nature of the piece, I'm sure I will be able to disguise it but its annoying. Less haste more speed I suspect.


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## gus3049 (1 Sep 2011)

DAY 2.

Had a further play today. At the risk of being obvious, I decided to make it seem a bit more organic by rounding over the edges instead of the crisp look I had intended. As I don't have the right tools and given that patience is not my strongest suit, it got textured, Sort of orange peel on the inner and sort of plant like outside. Still to be decided is if to colour the inside in some way.

I wonder where this will end up :?


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## CHJ (1 Sep 2011)

Done thunk good so far Gordon, gives me a headache just looking at it without having to think about how to progress further, or even if there is a need to progress further.


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## Wood spoiler (1 Sep 2011)

As they say .... I like what you have done with the place.

I like the orange peel effect.

Don't like to interfere with the creative process as I like the way it is evolving so I don't want to offer any further comment right now. Please accept this as encouragement.


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## Jonzjob (1 Sep 2011)

I am very impressed by the result so far Gordon, but I have no idea as to what to say as to if I like it or not? Totally confused and I think that the on;y way I culd decide on a comment would be to get me sweaty mits on it and look?

I am sure that I haven't seen anything quite the same, and that is not a downer on it. Just totally different and I think (?) that I like it?


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## gus3049 (1 Sep 2011)

Thank you all for your encouragement. Its a fascinating process just letting things develop and see where they lead. I suspect that the more you let the mind wander and work freeform, the more entertaining the whole thing will become.

So again, thanks to Colin for starting this and to Philip for providing the spur.

How are the rest of you doing????


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## Silverbirch (1 Sep 2011)

> How are the rest of you doing????



Errrmm......... not as well as you, Gordon, but I am thinking about it. Need some workshop time - hopefully this weekend.

Ian


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## Philip Streeting (2 Sep 2011)

It is encouraging to see Gordon, Ian and Colin getting to grips with the thread and sharing progress. It seems to me that Gordon has already made a big shift in what he feels turning may offer by way of personal challenge. Any new personal development in an approach to turning becomes brain food, stimulates the grey matter and adds something to enthusiasm for making. It will be great to see other work appearing here as and when.

As far as Gordon’s questions and observations on sanding and shaping are concerned here are a couple of pictures of some of the tools I use. You will see some Permagrit tools which are available in file, sheet and rotary tool form. Burrs have already been mentioned, I have a selection of rotary chisels but not shown here.

As well as the lolly stick homemade sanding method mentioned by Gordon you will see in the pictures various other ways of making sanders using self adhesive Velcro sheet cut to fit holders. Sanding sheets with velrco type backing can be cut to fit a toothbrush with the bristles removed these work well and are comfortable to hold. Abranet is shown attached to an old Sandvik plate holder. The method also works well on round or other shapes and I make sanders for turning too, keeps finger from being caught. Bent aluminium pipe or rod works well with thin wire twists helping to prevent possible movement as the transferred heat can soften the adhesive. Electric toothbrushs can make good mini power sanders.

The last picture shows rotary tools and cutters of various types. Burr types, PCB cutters, dental drills as well as the usual Dremel type shaping cutters. High speed work best with these cutters but look for max rpm ratings. I use The Foredom type heavy duty flexidrive, Foredom micromotor and the NSK dental lab air tool. I have a speed range from slow to 400,000 rpm. Special drill bits are required for the NSK tool.

The reason for adding this info is to illustrate that as with turning, some ideas need specialist equipment and tools to aid the maker achieve their aims. Some machines are very expensive. Once a work direction has been identified then over time various bits and pieces accumulate to a substantial tool kit.

Phil.





















P.S. I forgot to add to this post that on my Blog earlier this week I showed a couple of examples of looking at and possibly simplifying images using computer software so here is a link http://www.philipstreeting.blogspot.com/ for those that may be interested.


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## Jonzjob (2 Sep 2011)

I'm doing really well 8) 8) 

I have found me dictionary


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## Philip Streeting (2 Sep 2011)

Briiliant John - there will be no holding you back now!   :idea: 

Phil


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## boysie39 (2 Sep 2011)

Gordon, Thats one hell of a good looking form, it is IMO not unlike the work or thoughts of Joey Richardson.
I mean this as a compliement, I really like it. =D> =D> .

For one who says he has very little patience with fiddley things you have done a super job on that piece.
I know that everybody has their own views on what it should look like when finished, right now I see a piece of wood that was turned and carved into a beautiful form and can still be recognised as a wooden form.
You may go on to embellish it further but I have this filed away as it is now.

Gordon thanks for sharing.


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

boysie39":1vmaxukb said:


> Gordon, Thats one hell of a good looking form, it is IMO not unlike the work or thoughts of Joey Richardson.
> I mean this as a compliement, I really like it. =D> =D> .
> 
> For one who says he has very little patience with fiddley things you have done a super job on that piece.
> ...


Thank you.

As this is very much an experiment, I will push it as far as it wants to go. I strongly suspect that it will end up coloured on the inside - something really 'orribly French and garish. But it will teach me a thing or two.

No work on it today as I'm in the middle of cooking a curry for six and knowing the boozy lot that are coming for lunch, it will last all afternoon and my hands will be a little unsteady later - and possibly the rest of me too :lol:


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

boysie39":zgii268v said:


> it is IMO not unlike the work or thoughts of Joey Richardson.



I just had a look.

GULP  

A little way to go methinks :shock:


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## boysie39 (2 Sep 2011)

gus3049":1sqs9di9 said:


> boysie39":1sqs9di9 said:
> 
> 
> > it is IMO not unlike the work or thoughts of Joey Richardson.
> ...



I ment with the outer and inner structure of the piece :roll: :roll: 

At least you are transferring some of your sketches into actual workpieces.
Something along the lines that PHIL and me had in mind when the Idea was consieved so to speak :lol:


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## Jonzjob (2 Sep 2011)

I have just had a look at his site and I must say that it doesn't do a lot for me. Very cleaver, but not my style.


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

Jonzjob":24l8rynz said:


> I have just had a look at his site and I must say that it doesn't do a lot for me. Very cleaver, but not my style.


Thats 'cos he is a she.

Without wishing to be sexist, it has a very feminine feel to it. But technically out of this world.

Puts any pretensions one might have right where they belong.


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

boysie39":2o309dvl said:


> Something along the lines that PHIL and me had in mind when the Idea was consieved so to speak :lol:



So sorry Eugene,

I wasn't aware that I had to thank you too. I truly, heartwarmingly, cringeingly grateful to you. May all your barrels be full for ever.


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## Jonzjob (2 Sep 2011)

I do believe that I'm going to be sick :ho2 :ho2 

Both barrels?


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## boysie39 (2 Sep 2011)

My barrells runeth over 8) 8)


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## Wood spoiler (2 Sep 2011)

boysie39":2bxift1k said:


> My barrells runeth over 8) 8)



That will teach you not to invest in internal plumbing!


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## Jonzjob (2 Sep 2011)

I have just been looking at something else that decided that it is a 'form' on WOW. To me it looked a bit like an over fat vase with an aluminimuim bath plug stuck in the top. Very well made and probably with walls a bit thicker than yer normal tissue. BUT why?

Apart from being able to say that 'I can' it doesn't convey very much to me. You can't use it for anything and for me no point?

Sorry to be stoneage, but I do like good wine, especially as I live in the biggest vineyard in the world 8)


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

Jonzjob":3tpx36m3 said:


> I have just been looking at something else that decided that it is a 'form' on WOW. To me it looked a bit like an over fat vase with an aluminimuim bath plug stuck in the top. Very well made and probably with walls a bit thicker than yer normal tissue. BUT why?
> 
> Apart from being able to say that 'I can' it doesn't convey very much to me. You can't use it for anything and for me no point?
> 
> Sorry to be stoneage, but I do like good wine, especially as I live in the biggest vineyard in the world 8)



I see loads of stuff that is technically stunning and leaves me cold. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but...... there have always been 'accepted' standards of what makes good art, people whose opinions are respected as they have 'good taste' etc etc. But I don't think any of it actually matters. The person that made it presumably thinks its worth showing and I guess there will be someone who agrees with the fact that a badly designed and useless teapot is a work of art.

People used to pay me a fortune to decorate their homes, pick the fabrics, dress their windows etc. But they got what 'I' considered good taste (or sometimes just as much as I could make it cost :twisted: ). I used to have them come back to me occasionally and say a friend of theirs thought it was rubbish and what was I going to do about it? Absolutely nothing was always the answer. You paid me because you presumably liked what you saw of my previous work and were unable to do it yourself. It just means that people have different taste. I have spent all my life in 'design' related jobs which means I guess, that I have been 'sensitised' to a degree. It doesn't make me right however - not all the time anyway, just most of it.

We make what WE like and hope there are others out there who appreciate it too. If not, its their loss init?

Why not try and make something so totally out of your normal zone that you surprise yourself. Some stoneage art was terrific. You might find it fun.


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## Jonzjob (2 Sep 2011)

I remember once saying to an IBM salesman, when I was an IBM mainframe hardware service engineer for 18 years (Jessus tha was a lifetime ago!) that now he had sold this systen to the customer that I was now going to have to make it work. I did, and the customer was satisfied, but if the bleedin clown who had sold the stuff had sold what the customer had really needed then both the customer and my job would have been a darn site easier.

I tend to be really logical and love a challenge to find a way to make something work, so when I see a painting/sculpture/etc. that I can't find a reason for, like an hospital bed wrapped in a 2" rope and displayed as 'art' (?) I baulk at it. That was an 'exibit' in an 'exibition' in Gloucester that we went to have a look at once.

So much 'art' is to me the proverbial 'Kings new clothes' and there is not a soul on this earth that will convince me differently. One of the things that really p!sses me off is that Picasso was a really fine artist, but it wasn't until he had gone off his box with Absenth that any of the later rubbish fetched any money.

Sorry, but my style of art is trad stuff and may the devil take the rest.

As for stuff that is outside my 'normal box', I don't normally do pierced pieces. I did a celtic knot bracelet for the Aug challenge and it was concidered 'not to work'? I love it and everyone here that has seen it and handled it has said how lovely it is, but in someone elses eyes it 'doesn't work'. That is life!

Long past my bed time!


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## gus3049 (2 Sep 2011)

Jonzjob":rxeb1xte said:


> Sorry, but my style of art is trad stuff and may the devil take the rest.



Well then thats all right then. I happen to like Picasso's later stuff just as much as his early works, some more. We need the 'artist' just as much as the 'engineer'. One make it all work and the other makes it all worthwhile and makes us think of higher things :lol: 

Maybe we should go back to one of my original comments and just accept that this thread is not for everybody. I have to say that I am enjoying it very much and I reckon it could open up quite a few peoples' view of what is possible.


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## boysie39 (2 Sep 2011)

I reckon that if that Irish bloke what was his name Mick somebody or other that painted the celing in that chapel in Rome or somewhere was around now, He'd be blacklisted for taking too long, And if he put it on here for critque,he'd be torn to shreds. Thats if H&S would let him begin. :roll: 

Any person who offers his work for critque has to have masachoistic tendencies. Either that or on a forum such as this where people put a name to a post, he is looking to start a hit list :twisted: 

I am not an expert #-o I know thats hard t believe but when someone offers a piece for our apprasial I dont always comment, especially if the wood is coloured and the grain is not visable. I know that lots of turners are using paints and dye's to enhance their work but to me natures beauty is best. If someone wants to have colours in their turnings then why not use Acryllics ,they come in all sorts of colours and mixtures and I believe can be made to your own Spec.

Sorry for rambling on I suppose if Phil. see's this he will dump me  but I know I leave you in good hands but I will always rally to the call


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## Wood spoiler (2 Sep 2011)

boysie39":2u0suo87 said:


> Sorry for rambling on I suppose if Phil. see's this he will dump me  but I know I leave you in good hands but I will always rally to the call



Don't worry Deputy - you're still on the team!


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## gasmansteve (3 Sep 2011)

boysie39":19cnan9m said:


> but to me natures beauty is best



Hi all
Interesting thread. I fully understand turners like Eugene who prefer natures beauty to rule the day and I too like to see a lovely grained, nicely turned piece of wood but what I would add to the discussion is that I can also look on a high gloss mirror finished bowl the same as some others would look at a coloured or pyro`d piece in that it is not `natural` whatever that may be?. When did you ever see a tree with a mirror finish on it, again `beauty is in the eye etc....` but hey what do I know?
Regards
Steve


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## Wood spoiler (3 Sep 2011)

gasmansteve":xhmwgkdm said:


> boysie39":xhmwgkdm said:
> 
> 
> > but to me natures beauty is best
> ...



Steve. You are right. But we all by the same token have had bits of wood too boring to be left as is and to the other extreme where the natural beauty of the wood is such that it is crying out to be left in all it's glory.

However, this thread is all about moving along from that and helping to evolve the skill set to be able to see, understand and develop the skills to do "other" things, like for example your own development of skills with the air brush.

Gordon is right when he says this thread won't be for everybody. John is right when he does not like/understand stuff called art, when to his mind it is tosh.

I have never had an arty background but I feel that I wanted to be able to explore some of the creative side. 

My bottom line is - Just because I can doesn't mean I have too, but nice to have the full toolkit to choose from.


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## gnu (3 Sep 2011)

Very intersting discussion but and a lot of it is down to time. I used to say to the hobby turners that you have the luxury of time and can spend a week week or a month on an object but we professional craftmen have to always be looking at the clock and have to take a very pragmatic view about the craft. 
What I am looking for are people who have the vision to take turning way beyond its narrow confines. At the moment I am looking at instalation work that may use several dozen turners to produce massive work that will be assembled and will use recyled scrap timber such as forestry waste and will have an underlying messge as a lot of installation work does. 
Finally I say have fun, don't take your craft too seriously as life life is too short and don't knock people who love the natural beauty of wood and who just want to make simple, practical and popular objects.


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## Philip Streeting (3 Sep 2011)

Hi Gnu,

I haven't yet seen anyone here knocking those who love natural wood or those who wish to make simple things. To suggest this is undermining intention of the thread. The thread is and should continue to be about personal development, the aquisition of new skills and techniques for some and shared knowledge for others. It not,as far as I am aware, about the development of a particular way of working, methodology or viewpoint on wood or its potential for structural, material, creative or self-expressive exploitation. Wood is a substrate that can be manipulated or used in any way that the craftsperson, maker, architect, builder, designer or artist has the imagination or skill to visualise - always has been, hopefully always will be. 

Phil


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## gus3049 (3 Sep 2011)

NOT QUITE A FAIL.... but certainly not a success either.

After my excesses of yesterday afternoon (great curry though I says it meself wot shouldn't) I snuck into the workshop in the evening and attacked the wotsit with the burrs. I had a play with a few colour combinations on some scrap box and decided i rather liked white ground with gold highlights. Didn't like it once it was on though so took the tools to it again and cut through the surface to the wood again though not in the same holes! So there was a sort of combination of white and wood. Then popped on some gilt cream but it still didn't do much for me.

Went to bed.

Saturday morning chores over - shopping, rubbish dump, lay another yard...oops, metre of kitchen concrete - all good for my back, but Veronica acts a labourer and barrows all the sand in for the 'artiste' to turn into a floor - and after the curry leftovers for lunch (small, greedy pigs), slapped some blue on with a dry brush. If I can get the graduation right it might feel better. It is though, still very much experimental. Clearly making colouring effective is an artform all of its own. I would like to think that if I keep trying things, I will reach a technique and appearance that I will be happy to call one of my standard things. Who knows, even 'trademark' 8) 

As Phil has said to Gnu, I can't see any form of criticism or elitism about this thread. Its clearly for people who want to discover if there is something more in themselves than they have explored so far. 

I showed our guests my latest stuff and they oohed and ahhed over the decorative stuff but you could see that what they really wanted was one of the elm platters. Of course there is room for both.

I think I will now leave it though and stare at it occasionally and see what passes across my tired old brain by way of "wot the hell do I do next?"


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## gus3049 (3 Sep 2011)

As its bucketing down outside, I can't mow the grass - shame  

Did a little more colouring and I reckon this one is going to stop here. As it was the first thing like this I have done, there is a lot of refining to do, especially in the care about shape and the finishing of course. There is one very obvious flat spot on the 'egg' which screams a bit but yesterdays guests didn't spot it so who knows its future?

The idea can be applied to all sorts of stuff so I will try and fit in some more around the financially necessary practical stuff. It would be nice to think, that in the long run, the 'art' objects would be worth more. Must practice!! Then move on.


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## Philip Streeting (3 Sep 2011)

Gordon, I think a 'you've dun good' is an appropriate comment to make. Your words, for me, are as important than the object in that you have described a shift in your view of what may be possible for you.

Hopefully others will now be encouraged to give it a go. You have illustrated the only right solution to the problem posed is the one you are satisfied with. If it is right then move on to the next, if it isn't quite then try again or modify. 

Maybe this exercise will encourage you to be more confident and try other shapes and forms or refine the ones you are using within the work you have to do to make some money! 

Look forward to seeing how things develop for you both on this thread and others. 

Phil


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## Philip Streeting (4 Sep 2011)

Concepts and theories.

As well as using physical or pictorial references for ideas and work it is interesting to use words, concepts and theories as points of departure to produce a body of work. This method can sometimes provide difficulties for the viewer or critic. In recent years artists and some craftspeople have used ideas and theories from diverse sources to provide stimulus and direction for their works. Ideas may come from literature, social comment, the media, philosophy, science, psychoanalysis and many other sources.

When commenting on a piece it may be necessary to have some idea or understanding of the concept/idea/theory being used and how it is being applied before it is possible to describe the success or failure of the work presented. This would apply equally to both the artistic merit and applied craft techniques used as they may well be interdependent. 

Creative Brief 2:
To begin to investigate the above method as a source of ideas for your work use the word ‘Balance’ described here 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Balance

as a starting point to produce a small body of work and present it for discussion and critique.


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## Philip Streeting (4 Sep 2011)

Happy discussing.
Phil


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## gus3049 (4 Sep 2011)

Good brief.... rats, misprint - that should have said 'good grief'

This will need a bit of cogitation as, of course, some things work because they don't have balance but actually set certain elements against each other in, shall we say for the joy of it "unbalanced juxtaposition:"

I thought the idea was to stimulate the grey cells, not send them screaming for help


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## Wood spoiler (4 Sep 2011)

Sorry Phil, I am struggling to keep up already!

Haven't turned my object based on your plant parts yet. I am keeping track though. Hopefully will catch up soon.

Just have to get my turning in Balance :lol:


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## Philip Streeting (4 Sep 2011)

No probs Colin - none of this is time limited. It is your discussion thread primarily to which I said I would add some example project briefs. My job is done  

Phil


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## gus3049 (5 Sep 2011)

Hmm...... :shock: 

I suppose one must start by trying to define what 'balance' means in relation to form. I would guess that there is only one perfectly balanced form and that would be a perfect sphere where every part, section or point on its surface relates to every other in exactly the same way. Followed by a cube - assuming it is standing level on one side and then ever onward.

Socrates, he say " Well, then, if we cannot capture the good in one form, we will have to take hold of it in a conjunction of three: beauty, proportion and truth. Let us affirm that these should by right be treated as a unity and be held responsible for what is in the mixture, for goodness is what makes the mixture good in itself".

So we have a further 'balance' to consider. Not just the physical form itself but the way its impinges on our developed sense of beauty and proportion - which is probably rather different in all of us but one has to accept that there is, in every generation, an accepted standard to judge against.

The 'truth' bit becomes a little contentious I suspect in relation to the discussion here. For me, when it comes to making stuff, I have no sense of trying to actually 'say' anything. I am just trying to find something in the wood that says "hey, that is interesting and beautiful and I would like to put it on the mantlepiece and stare at it for a while" Perhaps my philosophical pretensions have been leaned on. It either looks 'good' or it doesn't according to education, how we have been sensitised to art and design or if we have been subject to the "philistine' approach to living that seems to aim at the lowest common denominator in all things. (Not sure about the last bit, I suppose its up for discussion :lol: )

However, I see other people describing what a piece represents to them and unless it is truly representational, I usually find the imagery either incredibly obvious or too obscure to actually mean what they say. This is why I would never name a piece although it seems a popular thing to do, maybe its about added value. I would also say, that I have very little time for work that is done "just because I could", stretching the technical limits but giving, it seems, almost no thought to the beauty and balance of the form itself. Surely, the technical skills are there to help produce what the heart and mind says it wants to achieve. The practice pieces should be left in storage.

Perhaps my sensitivity needs turning up. :roll: 

Over to others.


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## Wood spoiler (5 Sep 2011)

I have no philosophical pretensions. The only quote I can recall is Confucious. He say "man with hand in pocket feel cocky all day". The balance or balancing found there is not suitable for a discussion here!

Balance in the real world is around the pivotal point or in the reflective yin to yang.
Balance can also be viewed as Moderation. Broadcasters take the term to be by having all extremes or contra views it achieves balance.

The dictionary has it's own description being the term Phil has referred us to. But let's face it the legal systems generates billions arguing over the printed, and implied, word.theologians have spent millennia debating the same.

Final analysis says, like all things we produce it is in the eye of the beholder, meaning, as is the point of this, it is whatever we interpret it to be


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## gus3049 (5 Sep 2011)

Used up the bit of box that was left over after the little form and wondered how the effect would look on a bowl. Bit of work to do on the finish again but I quite like it. The bowl itself is just 60mm diameter.

Mustn't get hung up on this sort of thing but it seems worth pursuing to see where it leads.


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## Silverbirch (5 Sep 2011)

Still trying to work my way through brief 1!
As I suggested in the sketch I posted previously, I thought the central section of Phil`s piece of plant material could be the basis for a vase with a diagonal pattern of spots/dots/circles etc.




As it`s based on a natural object, I want the pattern to be obvious, but not too crisp and regular, like my coffee mug.




I`ve turned the basic piece. Next step is to decide on the colour, pattern and texture to be added.




I`ll keep you posted!

Ian


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## gus3049 (5 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":fjdnqss9 said:


> Still trying to work my way through brief 1!
> As I suggested in the sketch I posted previously, I thought the central section of Phil`s piece of plant material could be the basis for a vase with a diagonal pattern of spots/dots/circles etc.
> As it`s based on a natural object, I want the pattern to be obvious, but not too crisp and regular, like my coffee mug.
> I`ve turned the basic piece. Next step is to decide on the colour, pattern and texture to be added.
> ...



Oh goodie,

I was feeling lonely


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## Silverbirch (5 Sep 2011)

> However, I see other people describing what a piece represents to them and unless it is truly representational, I usually find the imagery either incredibly obvious or too obscure to actually mean what they say. This is why I would never name a piece although it seems a popular thing to do, maybe its about added value.



Very well put, Gordon.



> The practice pieces should be left in storage.


Agreed, but there is a distinction to be made between practice pieces and experimental pieces, which are always interesting to see, or if the practice piece is posted to ask for advice or feedback, that`s OK too.

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (5 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":3d97362o said:


> Still trying to work my way through brief 1!
> As I suggested in the sketch I posted previously, I thought the central section of Phil`s piece of plant material could be the basis for a vase with a diagonal pattern of spots/dots/circles etc.
> 
> As it`s based on a natural object, I want the pattern to be obvious, but not too crisp and regular, like my coffee mug.
> ...



My eye is drawn to the same section. My practical interpretation is still lagging behind.

Your blank is a lovely shape - almost tempted to say doing anything else would ruin it :shock: 

I sometimes take in to work for show and tell, a work in progress. I always get asked by one of the chaps if I'm going to ruin it with graffiti or take great lumps out of it!

Usually the finished article is appreciated

It's looking good - we're watching this space ....


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## Philip Streeting (5 Sep 2011)

Good to see some more things happening   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY

Phil


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## Silverbirch (5 Sep 2011)

> Your blank is a lovely shape - almost tempted to say doing anything else would ruin it :shock:



Thanks Colin, but the lovely shape will hopefully remain, whatever else I do. 
You just might not notice it any more under the c**p that I put on top :lol: 

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (5 Sep 2011)

OK chaps - I have been up the shed and turned my "form" ready to express myself on

A journey into the unknown is plotted


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## gus3049 (6 Sep 2011)

Philip Streeting":3fr0u5q5 said:


> Good to see some more things happening
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG9CE55wbtY
> 
> Phil



That is one great speech. Its hard to argue with anything he said. One has to say that the word 'balance' comes to mind here. We are going to need the head as well as the heart or humans really won't survive. As he said though the word 'failure' has a lot to answer for. Best not get into the current climate in the UK I think, there are other threads for that.


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## Philip Streeting (6 Sep 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_(sculpture)


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## boysie39 (6 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":28d3wpbq said:


> OK chaps - I have been up the shed and turned my "form" ready to express myself on
> 
> A journey into the unknown is plotted



Well folks' Phil seems to have everything under control from OUR :roll: :lol: side of things, it's up to you now to sort your way through the mine fields and produce your interpretations best of luck to you all.

In the meantime as Colin has quoted I am off to the Big Shed where they are going to hook me up to the National Grid to see if they can straighten me out  So watch out for a reduction of power when you are at your lathes I'm not sure which day yet, but you can blame me for your mistakes :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Take care a nd God Bless


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## Philip Streeting (6 Sep 2011)

Thanks Eugene - I think we have illustrated together what can be achieved with some collaborative working.   
Phil

Here are some other links just to stimulate some thoughts. Photobucket and any other online image storage system can provide random and sometimes disconnected images named 'Balance' that can send you thinking off at a tangent as well as providing useful ones! Research can sometimes be the key to unlock your creative thinking and doing. Try typing in some of the more usual words we use in turning such as bowl, vase, hollow, spindle, skew and see what surfaces :shock:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fileavid ... alance.jpg

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Balance& ... 00&bih=747

http://images.search.yahoo.com/images/v ... jx9IsgPKVr

http://photobucket.com/images/balance/#!cpZZ1QQtppZZ28


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## Wood spoiler (6 Sep 2011)

Hi

I am not being shy, I went to take a piccie of my piece and my camera seems to know it is coming up to pheasant shooting season and is acting plucked.

Mmmmmmmmm

I will carry on and post when I get it sorted.

Sorry


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## Silverbirch (8 Sep 2011)

Here is my completed attempt at producing a piece based on the plant parts Phil posted.









As I said in an earlier post, I focused on the central section of the plant which showed a pattern of raised spots.
I was trying to capture the muted colours, the pattern and texture.
The timber is lime, with pyrographed texture and acrylic paint stippled on for the spots.
I could just have turned a cylinder and experimented with the texturing etc on that, I suppose, but with an eye to this month`s challenge, I thought I might as well get in a little vase turning practice as well  
What do you think?

Ian


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## frugal (8 Sep 2011)

I have been watching this thread with interest since it started, but I have not had the opportunity to contribute until now. 

My first thoughts when reading the dictionary.com definitions of balance was to think about the opposite, and what happens when balance is removed. Which in turn got me to thinking about martial arts: in arts such as Aikido, Judo and Tai-Jitsu in order to make your opponent fall or move in the way that you want to you need to take control of their balance and move it to a point where they are off balance, but not so far that they fall. Then you can control them.

Taking this back to turning I have been thinking about shapes that are either balanced, but look unbalanced, or unbalanced but look balanced. The only one I really have formed in my head is a round bottomed piece, with the Ying and Yang symbols on the top surface. However instead of the top surface being flat, the Ying would be recessed and the Yang would be proud of the surface, this would cause a weight shift in the piece, and it would tip to one side. You could then possibly have the dot on the hollowed out side filled with something heavy to restore the balance (maybe a sphere made of marble or metal). 

If you want to add in another element of balance you can change which of the Ying and Yang are recessed or proud. Ying being female is typically seen as concave, and Yang as male is thought of as proud or phallic rising from the surface. If you switch which is recessed and proud then you are playing with the balance between male and female.

Of course I have no idea how I would do this technically


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## Wood spoiler (8 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":vkl7mxyj said:


> Here is my completed attempt at producing a piece based on the plant parts Phil posted.
> 
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, I focused on the central section of the plant which showed a pattern of raised spots.
> ...



I think Gordon will like it as it is in keeping with his ladybird theme.

It is a bold statement and it captures the section identified. I think overall it is a little uniform. It is more a commercial piece than an art piece, giving that uniformity. But then I am saying that without yet having succeeded with my own efforts or ever having tried it. It is easier to comment than to produce. My minor comment aside I think the piece looks great.


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## Wood spoiler (8 Sep 2011)

frugal":21y21kae said:


> I have been watching this thread with interest since it started, but I have not had the opportunity to contribute until now.
> 
> My first thoughts when reading the dictionary.com definitions of balance was to think about the opposite, and what happens when balance is removed. Which in turn got me to thinking about martial arts: in arts such as Aikido, Judo and Tai-Jitsu in order to make your opponent fall or move in the way that you want to you need to take control of their balance and move it to a point where they are off balance, but not so far that they fall. Then you can control them.
> 
> ...



Good to have your input. Now we have you thinking - jump on in and try some bits. The worst that can happen is that it may not work out!


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## frugal (8 Sep 2011)

The other definition of balance is: "the remainder or rest". I wonder if it is possible to make two identical objects, where the second one is formed out of the shavings created by turning the first one...

So make a simple bowl, and then use it to make a mould. The mould can then be used to create a copy from the shavings and epoxy / resin / something...

Or make up resin and shavings blanks from the shavings from previous projects and then use this "remainder" of a previous project to make something.


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## frugal (8 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":1cjnfujn said:


> frugal":1cjnfujn said:
> 
> 
> > I have been watching this thread with interest since it started, but I have not had the opportunity to contribute until now.
> ...



Another thought: A sphere (the perfect balanced shape), that is hollow; but the hollowing is done off centre so that the sphere is balanced with regard to shape, but unbalanced with regards to how it rolls...

Cut a blank in half, glue it back together with a paper joint. Make it into a sphere. split it open and hollow out a hemisphere into each half off centre, then glue it back together to make a solid seeming shape.


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## gus3049 (8 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":1ed4ld9f said:


> Here is my completed attempt at producing a piece based on the plant parts Phil posted.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, I focused on the central section of the plant which showed a pattern of raised spots.
> I was trying to capture the muted colours, the pattern and texture.
> ...



I had a look back through your entries to the monthly challenge and its safe to say its not like anything you have shown before. On that point at least, this thread has clearly had some effect. I must look up in my entymology book and try and find a ladybird with that many spots.

Its a good looking vase shapewise and the texture is attractive. What's next?


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## gus3049 (8 Sep 2011)

frugal":3p64s1lb said:


> Wood spoiler":3p64s1lb said:
> 
> 
> > frugal":3p64s1lb said:
> ...



Well your'e in the ring. Where's the product?  

I know the second bit is all about words, but I reckon you should backtrack a bit and show us what you have in mind (only three to do I think) - we need more participation.


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## Philip Streeting (8 Sep 2011)

Well done Ian both for what you have produced and like Gordon having the courage to post and describe. =D> 

I think it may be best not to confuse the two briefs. It may be wise to steer clear of seeing creative as meaning the same thing as artistic or producing art. 

The first brief was about seeing and doing the second about thinking, seeing and doing.

It is an approach to what we do rather than working in a particular way or genre that is being encouraged here. In other words, looking outside our usual sphere of influences or ways of approaching what we do. Trying new things, new thinking or different ways of using tools, methods and materials are the real challenges.

Frugal as Gordon has said - have ago   nothing ventured nothing gained! Once you start there's no turning back  

Phil


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## Philip Streeting (8 Sep 2011)

To add to Frugal's thoughts about Balance and the dictionary definitions see the slightly different or extended descriptions used in 3D and 2D design and art in the link below. 

http://char.txa.cornell.edu/language/pr ... incipl.htm


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## Wood spoiler (8 Sep 2011)

Well here it is 

I will leave others to comment on whether I have done what I think I did.

I too focused on the same section that inspired Ian. I saw within the plant a pattern of arches which were dark and the rough shapes on the top. Also, and I don't know why I saw a "waistcoat - I think it was a similarity to a Christmas past, hence my need for an opening.

The lower part was achieved by using a burr to carve the curves. I then used Ronseal Walnut wood filler to fill the grooves and sanded down

The top was cut using my Foredom again with various burrs.

I have finished with a finishing oil. It shows up some sanding/grinding marks which on one hand reflects the nature of the beast, but everything i have done til now screams keep sanding etc

This is the first time I have attempted abstract so totally unsure of how the end result achieves it's aims


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## Silverbirch (8 Sep 2011)

Thanks for your comments on my vase, Colin, Gordon and Phil



> I think overall it is a little uniform



Yes, I`d have to agree - more spotty than I`d really intended. 
Maybe I`ll try a similar, but modified effect on something else.

Ian


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## gus3049 (9 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":2xt784xj said:


> Well here it is
> I will leave others to comment on whether I have done what I think I did.
> This is the first time I have attempted abstract so totally unsure of how the end result achieves it's aims



Wow, same goes for you Colin, I definitely can't see anything like that in your previous output. Phil has achieved what was intended clearly. Its the change thats more important than the result. For me the result is 'interesting' rather than "I gotta have that" but that doesn't matter at all - how does your main judge (female variety) feel about it?. It does look very organic.

There are new techniques in your head and I really look forward to seeing how you apply them in future.

For myself, I find that, although its only three or four pieces on, I am looking at what I am doing and trying to see how I can push it further rather than just seeing how I can finish it off nicely. 

The shine is fine but the shape is - rats, can't find a rhyme!

On the other hand, I started a small box last night, turned a small bowl inside and left loads of wood in order to do some carving/texturing. Parted it off the lathe and the shape was so nice that its going to get left well alone and just finished off. As I didn't sand it to a finish it means hand work now. So at times, the wood is good enough still.


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## gus3049 (9 Sep 2011)

I used up the rest of a pancake mix for lunch today. 8) 

There I was, staring at the pan to get it JUST SO before flipping it and my eye settled on the pattern of dimples and bumps made by the air bubbles. I was trying to see if there was any regularity when the wife said "you can eat that one, I don't like them burnt"  

Really interesting combinations though - I didn't have the camera handy or it would have been completely inedible. Good thing I'm a carbon based lifeform.


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## gus3049 (9 Sep 2011)

Here's my take on that middle section of the plant form. Actually, thats a bit untrue. REALLY its my pancake form but it just happens to remind me of the plant too. The bubbles on the pancake were actually reasonably regular with deep ones surrounded with smaller ones - just like this. The centre section of the pancake tended to be relatively smooth but with the odd well done bit - rather like the colouring on the boxwood 

It has just had a quick coat of lacquer as yet whilst I decide if its going any further.


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## Silverbirch (9 Sep 2011)

> I saw within the plant a pattern of arches which were dark and the rough shapes on the top. Also, and I don't know why I saw a "waistcoat



Interesting to see how the same tiny section can suggest something quite different to different people!

I like you pancake texture, Gordon - works very well with the colour variations on the other parts.

Ian


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## gus3049 (9 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":2bp9rblk said:


> > I saw within the plant a pattern of arches which were dark and the rough shapes on the top. Also, and I don't know why I saw a "waistcoat
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As you say Ian, its fascinating to see the variety. This thread has had a huge number of hits but very few different people have contributed. I don't know if I am surprised or not. I would have thought it would have stimulated a few more to enter into the spirit but there you go.

Its been a day of the wood biting back, after the small box, this one was supposed to be another pierce and carve job but there was so much unusual colour variation on this piece that it just said "pancake" - as it would!

I will have to keep a camera ready primed in future, there are things to see everywhere it seems.


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## gus3049 (11 Sep 2011)

It might be a bit lonely, but I'm continuing with this thread because its so much fun getting out of the rut I was in danger of inhabiting.

I am treating wood now in the same way I used to treat a sheet of paper. No preconceptions, just start somewhere, add shapes, play with stuff and see what happens. The main difference is that the eraser doesn't work but who cares, the journey remains interesting. I'm quite sure that some results will be disaster but some may not. I used to throw quite a lot of paper in the bin but there is a natural reaction against binning something solid that has consumed our valuable time. At least the wooden ones will add to the heat this coming winter.

This is one out of yew I started last evening. The shape of the opening at the top was dictated by cracking but the rest is going to be entirely freeform (apart from the grain leading the way) with piercing, carving and texturing. Much as I enjoy producing a useful plate or bowl, this seems much more exciting and the results surprise me sometimes, although, inevitably, they can also disappoint.


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## Wood spoiler (11 Sep 2011)

Don't feel lonely - with a day job and other bits of life some of us can't be quite as prolific as you.

The Yew form is lovely. Bearing in mind just how unnatural wood turning is - the yew form looks very natural #-o if you know what I mean - perhaps organic is a better word.

Ps your underlying skills are shining through in the pre cut form you have turned. Your hollowing is looking really good.


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## gus3049 (11 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":3uwar0ge said:


> Don't feel lonely - with a day job and other bits of life some of us can't be quite as prolific as you.
> 
> The Yew form is lovely. Bearing in mind just how unnatural wood turning is - the yew form looks very natural #-o if you know what I mean - perhaps organic is a better word.
> 
> Ps your underlying skills are shining through in the pre cut form you have turned. Your hollowing is looking really good.


You have to sort your priorities out. Paying the mortage pah, who needs it. As you say, this is all part of my day job so its easy for me to fit in.

As usual, the wood bit back. It wasn't going to be quite like this but there you go.

How did your wife feel about your effort? Looking at it again it reminds me of dentures for some reason :shock: I do like the 'inlay' with filler. Good idea that.


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## Wood spoiler (11 Sep 2011)

gus3049":jdluw07q said:


> Wood spoiler":jdluw07q said:
> 
> 
> > Don't feel lonely - with a day job and other bits of life some of us can't be quite as prolific as you.
> ...



To be honest neither of us liked it that much. It was an exercise and I learnt from it. The wood filler inlay worked well. I reckon a clearly defined line cut with a parting tool, filled and sanded should look as good as those I did with "proper" inlay


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## gus3049 (11 Sep 2011)

I hope I'm not boring anyone  

As its about development of concepts - this is a development stage. I'm using the natural patterns in the wood as a guide so the artist is 'im oop thar' or 'doon thar' or whatever made it the way it is.

My biggest problem is that, being not quite dry yew, there are several splits. The main ones were just cut out at the top but there is one that runs down quite a way and, typically, its on a plain bit so it shows. One of the finishing jobs will be to try and disguise it somehow. Its superglued but annoyingly obvious.

Also obvious now that more wood is getting cut away is the poor finish on the inside. This is something I will have to address although my excuse for this one is that, because of the splits, I rather thought this would just be a test piece. Having done so much however, I don't feel like chucking it now so will have to find a way of fixing that too.


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## Wood spoiler (11 Sep 2011)

The textures and effects you are developing are very interesting ... And transferable.

The form has lots going on so it gives lots of possibilities for finished article


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## gus3049 (12 Sep 2011)

This is the form with a coat or two of lacquer on it. I reckon its gone as far as its gonna!

I'm not sure how much I like it but its another on the path of discovery and, as Colin has said, everything we try has applications somewhere down the line. Yew is particularly suitable for this sort of treatment because of the great contrast between the sap and the heartwood. More shavings I can't let the chickens sleep on.


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## Philip Streeting (13 Sep 2011)

Gordon, it has been great to see you persisitng on this thread and seeing the results you are achieving. It is a shame, as you have observed, there are many views but little participation. Hopefully, some of the viewers will have learned something from your experience and the way you have approached the problem solving bit of the brief. I look forward to seeing how your work develops from here.
Phil


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## gus3049 (13 Sep 2011)

Philip Streeting":1rr2sra1 said:


> Gordon, it has been great to see you persisitng on this thread and seeing the results you are achieving. It is a shame, as you have observed, there are many views but little participation. Hopefully, some of the viewers will have learned something from your experience and the way you have approached the problem solving bit of the brief. I look forward to seeing how your work develops from here.
> Phil


Thank you Phil,

I am enjoying the process. It makes every piece that bit more enjoyable and challenging, trying to find something else within the wood. Even a standard bowl or vase offers the chance for some 'creativity' if one looks beyond the 'round'.


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## Wood spoiler (14 Sep 2011)

I like some of the shapes and textures.

I don't think it all comes together as a "finished" piece

.... But I am only saying this to be constructive. You are pushing at the boundaries and showing so much more than the rest of us, that you are bound to get the odd adverse reaction, but don't take it as a negative. This thread is all about pushing the boundaries and learning how to move on. You are zooming away and good on yer for doing so =D>


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## gus3049 (14 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":1q4uwflw said:


> I like some of the shapes and textures.
> 
> I don't think it all comes together as a "finished" piece
> 
> .... But I am only saying this to be constructive. You are pushing at the boundaries and showing so much more than the rest of us, that you are bound to get the odd adverse reaction, but don't take it as a negative. This thread is all about pushing the boundaries and learning how to move on. You are zooming away and good on yer for doing so =D>



I quite agree about it Colin. I've stopped with it because I can't see where else to take it. So its on the shelf and getting looked at. If something comes to mind I will attack it again. If not, I'll sell it to the highest bidder as 'artistic statement' - gotta be worth a bit as that.

As far as the other comments are concerned       

I'm having a more 'everyday' sort of couple of days though. The big yew bowl yesterday and some cherry goblets today. Dead easy stuff brainwise. This pushing the boundaries stuff is hard work


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## gus3049 (15 Sep 2011)

Its surprising how tiny changes can make such a big difference to the feel of a piece. This form has been bugging me every time I see it up there on the shelf mocking me. I am happy with most of it but one section just didn't do it. So I took the scalpel to the cutout and suddenly, the shape makes more sense. Its not there yet but it will get there - so there.

I also drilled out all the large indents on this section which don't really show in the pic but thats a small improvement too.

Step by step.

Edit: Actually the drilling out has transformed it. As soon as I switched a light on behind it, the play of shadows and light through the holes was terrific


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## gasmansteve (16 Sep 2011)

Pretty relevant I thought http://www.austinkleon.com/2011/03/30/h ... y-told-me/
Steve


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## gus3049 (16 Sep 2011)

gasmansteve":26b0zrk2 said:


> Pretty relevant I thought http://www.austinkleon.com/2011/03/30/h ... y-told-me/
> Steve



Interesting. I was with him right down to the be boring and keep organised bit. That may be right for him but is so foreign to me that I skipped it after seeing the title. I am the 'grasshopper' Hate the 9-5 existence and never know where I put it. Frustrating sometimes but always 'interesting'.

I think what I am trying to do is make something that I wouldn't part with for any price. There are lots of things on the shelf that I like but if I was offered enough, they would go to the highest bidder PDQ. 

I have one guitar that stays until I die and a couple of pictures that I still stare at and wonder how I managed to do that. I am now looking for the turned piece to go with them. I suspect I will be turning for some time but accidents happen. I guess the truth is that great artists can do it almost at ease but the rest of us have to work at it.

Apart from my wife and cats, everything else in my life has a price.


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## Wood spoiler (16 Sep 2011)

gasmansteve":29u0cq1u said:


> Pretty relevant I thought http://www.austinkleon.com/2011/03/30/h ... y-told-me/
> Steve



I like the message (and the presentation thereof)

Very honest - steal like an artist. It seems very apt in the Turners world


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## gasmansteve (17 Sep 2011)

I like the `Nothing is original` bit. I think its easy to get bogged down trying to produce something original - if I use three different methods from three different turners on one piece have I made something unique??. I would almost go as far as saying that its nye on impossible to make something wholly unique as (to pinch a phrase from science) we all stand on the shoulders of others . Just enjoy what you make say I and if others like it all the better.  FWIW
Steve


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## gus3049 (18 Sep 2011)

Still managing to squeeze in one 'play' a day. As I'm back into the stock of yew, I wondered if there was another way of taking advantage of the contrast between the sap and heartwood. So I knocked up a hollow form and intended carving out alternative sections of grain to get a er.... 'natural' pattern of light and dark.

Ah!! nature has a way of being awkward at times. Why can't it grow things in straight lines? For a start, I would have to make the shape very different because to work the patterns would have to be reasonably close to the same depth. As it is, the first cut I tried was like tunneling to the centre of the earth. Any colour variation was lost deep in shadow. I tried it twice but both times I was disappointed at the result. The small one I chucked but the big one got filled. Interestingly, the colour of the fill - glue and dust - was much darker than I expected. So, a bit like Colin's except he did it on purpose. 

There may be something here but doing this sort of thing will be hugely labour intensive and time is a bit of a problem right now.

Feeling reasonably pleased with myself as quite a few bits were sold at a local exhibition. Closing party last night so I collected the dosh - always a good feeling  I was surprised to see that one was bought by some visitors to the area who live in BurySt.Edmunds which is the nearest big town to where I used to live in Suffolk.

(The sofware is having fun!!! It translated BurySt.Edmunds and Bury Dung Edmunds!!!! Which is why its now all one word)


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## Wood spoiler (18 Sep 2011)

I think this "filler" idea has lots of possibilities and is clearly offering another means of adornment to products.

Looking forward to seeing where this one might go


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## gus3049 (19 Sep 2011)

Todays play was quite short. My back is extremely painful at the mo and foolishly, my wife and I are trying to get a concrete floor laid, which, as you can imagine, is just what the doctor ordered for a bad back problem. However, I managed a bit of turning as well and worried at this 'ere form a bit more. Its surprising how ones view of something can change as it develops. I had visions of a mainly textured with a few cutouts at the top but it is slowly getting carved and drilled out now. Ever since I saw the effect of light through the holes, I have been drilling out more small sections, always keeping to the grain pattern. I have also removed some textured sections by cutting them out to give more feeling of depth.

Its slowly getting to feel more like something worth finishing.


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## gus3049 (20 Sep 2011)

I reckon I've reached the end of this one so here is a slightly different view of the finished item :lol:


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## Wood spoiler (20 Sep 2011)

:shock: 

I would not have thought the latest pic was the same item.

I like the finished item from it's new perspective, whereas I saw the previous piccie as a collection of techniques but disparate

Well done. That moves it right along
=D> =D> =D>


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## chill (20 Sep 2011)

Hi, a very interesting and thought provoking thread, has certainly given me food for thought, thanks to Phillip for the briefs, and all the participants (especially Gordon) for sharing their ideas and developments, unfortunately work and family life prevent me from getting much time on the lathe at the moment, but my sketch book/notepad is filling up, so I am sure this will lead to some interesting work when time allows, the world is a different place when you look at things from various perspectives, and try to interpret what mother nature has given us and incorporate it into our work/hobbies and philosophies. Sorry for being so long winded


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## gus3049 (20 Sep 2011)

chill":2wdlkq3s said:


> Hi, a very interesting and thought provoking thread, has certainly given me food for thought, thanks to Phillip for the briefs, and all the participants (especially Gordon) for sharing their ideas and developments, unfortunately work and family life prevent me from getting much time on the lathe at the moment, but my sketch book/notepad is filling up, so I am sure this will lead to some interesting work when time allows, the world is a different place when you look at things from various perspectives, and try to interpret what mother nature has given us and incorporate it into our work/hobbies and philosophies. Sorry for being so long winded


 
Thats only one short paragraph. Hopefully, you won't be alone in finding the thread interesting and useful. Although I still turn 'standard' stuff, this process has made me look at what I do in a new light and I now tend to put a piece of wood aside if it suggests a more 'creative' approach is possible. 

Dangerous word 'creative'. I'm sure it means different things to many different people.

I'm sure we all look forward to the time when you can join in, lathe time is necessary for peace of mind. Never mind paying the mortgage and stuff, get turning.


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## gus3049 (20 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":27prcerc said:


> :shock:
> 
> I would not have thought the latest pic was the same item.
> 
> ...



Thanks Colin,

I spent about three hours on it today. Didn't involve doing much but just stared at it a bit, cleaned up a few bits of carving and added a few links here and there that seemed to pull it together. The tiny adjustments can make such a difference. Its so tempting to get a piece to an 'acceptable' state sometimes but a bit more time and contemplation can work wonders it seems.

I wonder what's next? If we can get a few more involved, this thread could run and run


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## Wood spoiler (20 Sep 2011)

gus3049":sa9earbx said:


> Thanks Colin,
> 
> I spent about three hours on it today. Didn't involve doing much but just stared at it a bit, cleaned up a few bits of carving and added a few links here and there that seemed to pull it together. The tiny adjustments can make such a difference. Its so tempting to get a piece to an 'acceptable' state sometimes but a bit more time and contemplation can work wonders it seems.
> 
> I wonder what's next? If we can get a few more involved, this thread could run and run



Having now finished my competition vase and my midget sized??? Planter I have started on a piece inspired by Philip's "Balance" brief.

Hopefully report back soon. 

My first piece inspired by the plant did not satisfy me as I did not like the finished item, but the positive was the use of filler, which has been filed away for future use.


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## Wood spoiler (20 Sep 2011)

chill":1y57xg2m said:


> Hi, a very interesting and thought provoking thread, has certainly given me food for thought, thanks to Phillip for the briefs, and all the participants (especially Gordon) for sharing their ideas and developments, unfortunately work and family life prevent me from getting much time on the lathe at the moment, but my sketch book/notepad is filling up, so I am sure this will lead to some interesting work when time allows, the world is a different place when you look at things from various perspectives, and try to interpret what mother nature has given us and incorporate it into our work/hobbies and philosophies. Sorry for being so long winded



Good to hear we are getting into the psyche of others.

Additional input is most welcome. Although a woodturning thread, the nature of the thread will happily accept sketch ideas as well as physical ones.

Feel free to participate in any way you can


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## gus3049 (23 Sep 2011)

We finally found a way to photograph this pierced form to show the effect of light through it. Just the sun doing its thing, showing the natural colour and feel of the thing.

After the kittens had knocked it off the shelf (I told you that would happen........) we removed them and, finding that it had survived the fall, took a few from various sides.

My wife says that the last one looks like someone who has been shot in the head and isn't too happy about it :shock:


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## Wood spoiler (24 Sep 2011)

*Balance*

Well I have finally caught up with Phil's brief on balance and attach below my considered piece on the subject

The central theme is clearly putting objects in balance that clearly are not naturally so.

Leave it to you with greater understandings to see if I have achieved it


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## gasmansteve (24 Sep 2011)

Like where you`re going with these Colin, love pieces that make you think !
Steve


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## gus3049 (24 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":2wdr371g said:


> *Balance*
> Well I have finally caught up with Phil's brief on balance and attach below my considered piece on the subject
> The central theme is clearly putting objects in balance that clearly are not naturally so.
> Leave it to you with greater understandings to see if I have achieved it


Yikes :shock: 

This is certainly heading you off in new directions. My first thought was that this was a rather literal interpretation of 'balance'. Then I stared a bit and of course, there are different possibilities involved here. If the objects are the same weight then the pivot point is way too far to the right but then, of course, they might not be the same weight so one begins to wonder what the various bits are made of. Then again, the individual items couldn't possibly stay the way they are placed so - are they glued on or is there a secret process known only the the wood spoiler here?

So all in all it is a thought provoking piece. As to whether it fits the brief, haven't got a clue. I suspect that some of us had better have a think about this and see what *we* can come up with for this bit of the brief. Ian? Anyone else?

Thanks for posting it Colin.


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## Silverbirch (24 Sep 2011)

I`ve got some ideas ready to try.
Now that I`ve finished my vase for this month`s challenge, my next project will be to turn one of my ideas into something concrete (or should that be wood? :lol: ).

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (24 Sep 2011)

gus3049":y984sp72 said:


> This is certainly heading you off in new directions. My first thought was that this was a rather literal interpretation of 'balance'. Then I stared a bit and of course, there are different possibilities involved here. If the objects are the same weight then the pivot point is way too far to the right but then, of course, they might not be the same weight so one begins to wonder what the various bits are made of. Then again, the individual items couldn't possibly stay the way they are placed so - are they glued on or is there a secret process known only the the wood spoiler here?
> 
> So all in all it is a thought provoking piece. As to whether it fits the brief, haven't got a clue. I suspect that some of us had better have a think about this and see what *we* can come up with for this bit of the brief. Ian? Anyone else?
> 
> Thanks for posting it Colin.



The idea was that the inverted pyramid of balls shouldn't be and as you picked up the counterbalance shouldn't work being so close to the fulcrum point that and it is all sat on a ball, it should be lying in a heap at the bottom. That was the bit I was trying to portray to challenge the concept of balance. As you picked up on the key features I guess I'll claim that one as a bit of a win (uch more so than my first effort).



Silverbirch":y984sp72 said:


> I`ve got some ideas ready to try.
> Now that I`ve finished my vase for this month`s challenge, my next project will be to turn one of my ideas into something concrete (or should that be wood? :lol: ).
> 
> Ian



Look forward to seeing what you come up with.



gasmansteve":y984sp72 said:


> Like where you`re going with these Colin, love pieces that make you think !
> Steve



Thanks Steve. Anytime you want to join in and share on this theme you are more than welcome. (But I do think you are doing well on your own exploration in recent work)


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## gus3049 (26 Sep 2011)

I thought I'd have a go at the 'balance' brief.

Hah! :shock: 

Being a bit obvious, I just turned a basic cylinder and then changed angle and centre to see what happened. What happened looked like one of those stone heads on Easter island. I was half way to the woodpile when, for some reason, I thought about how it could be rescued. I am still thinking about it but it certainly seems like 'a development of concept' to me. As the box is one of the bigger bits that doesn't have a crack right though it seems a shame to just chuck it without some attempt.

It will be interesting to see if an ugly duckling can be turned into a beautiful swan - or at least acceptably non horrid. It will just be a sculpture I think so I can be as 'artistic' as the mood takes me - good excuse anyway.

I have already started so cannot show the original but the shape still shows I think.

Watch this space :lol:


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## Wood spoiler (26 Sep 2011)

Maybe this sums up why this thread was started but my starting points appears to be the "obvious" as in my balance piece, managing only a small twist away from obviousness. But I can understand what you have started.

We are constrained by this being a Turning forum so you "obvious" away and keep on with what you are doing. All good stuff for those of us (read me) that haven't any Art to draw on


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## gus3049 (27 Sep 2011)

Wood spoiler":sqgernil said:


> Maybe this sums up why this thread was started but my starting points appears to be the "obvious" as in my balance piece, managing only a small twist away from obviousness. But I can understand what you have started.
> 
> We are constrained by this being a Turning forum so you "obvious" away and keep on with what you are doing. All good stuff for those of us (read me) that haven't any Art to draw on



Just because you don't have any 'art' to draw on doesn't mean you don't have any artistic ability, as is demonstrated by your turning.

Being exposed to a lifetime art and design may help formalise certain things and give you a database to draw against but it doesn't mean that those who haven't had that exposure are not able to display just as much talent.

I have been in 'design' all my life but that doesn't stop some on this forum finding my sense of aesthetics not to their taste. That Ok and quite normal as maybe the lifetime's exposure tends to close judgement rather than open it to the new.


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## Silverbirch (27 Sep 2011)

I`ve been thinking about how I might interpret the idea of "balance".

I thought I might do something along these lines: (see scan)
a round bottomed bowl sitting on a pedestal which is dished at the top, with perhaps a small sphere (never turned one of those before!) resting inside the bowl.
The three elements would be separate, ie not fixed together, and hopefully would be in equilibrium and therefore balanced.
The fine details I`ll work out as I go along and will no doubt make other modifications to the basic idea.
Part of my reasoning is that if I publicly commit to it I`m more likely to get on and actually do it  

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (27 Sep 2011)

Good for you

I look forward to seeing that


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## gus3049 (27 Sep 2011)

Silverbirch":1ejh11nq said:


> I`ve been thinking about how I might interpret the idea of "balance".
> 
> I thought I might do something along these lines: (see scan)
> a round bottomed bowl sitting on a pedestal which is dished at the top, with perhaps a small sphere (never turned one of those before!) resting inside the bowl.
> ...



That looks interesting Ian.


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## gus3049 (27 Sep 2011)

Well I've started so I'll finish :shock: 

I'm still not sure where this is going but the journey, I am told, is the important bit. Although it looks a mess at the moment, there is a slight glimmer of a vision of how it could look forming deep (very deep) in my subconscious. Quite how I am going too get there though, I haven't got a clue and it may not be possible. We shall see.


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## gus3049 (30 Sep 2011)

The last item has just been consigned to the fire pile. No matter what I did, nothing came of it and the piece remained an ugly lump of nothing.

Annoying to waste a good bit of box but its gonna happen from time to time. Move on and try another idea.


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## Philip Streeting (4 Oct 2011)

I have refrained from making comments so as not to influence conversations taking place on this thread. It has been brilliant to see how two or three people engaging with one another can help to make breakthroughs in thinking and doing.

Congratulations to Gordon for achieving the front cover of WOW with his first experimental piece.

Best wishes
Phil


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## skeetoids (4 Oct 2011)

Here, here, well done Gordon.


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## Silverbirch (4 Oct 2011)

Thinking of the sketch I posted earlier, I`ve finally come up with something akin to what I had in mind for the idea of "balance".







I turned the base and ball from oak, then scorched, wirebrushed and sprayed it black.
The bowl section is sycamore.
The three components are separate and balanced in a state of equilibrium. 
The bowl has a curved base so it returns to an upright position when rocked, rather like a budgie toy. 
The ball naturally centres itself in the depression on top of the bowl shape.





My thoughts:

1. I think the ball is too large ( and not very well made - need to practise that  )
2. The pedestal is too wide in relation to the size of the bowl. Or, it might work better if it was shorter and more curved at the waist.
3. I think the bowl needs to have more of a curve from rim to base, so that it is a segment of a circle.
With hindsight, I should have drawn the pieces to scale and worked from measurements on my drawing, as you can`t make overall adjustments as you go along when you`re not working on a single piece.
I`ll try to rework some/all of the components and post a "mark 2" version later.

Your thoughts and comments welcome!

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (4 Oct 2011)

I like it a lot. It actually looks complete and classy and not a worked through concept piece.

I think you are possibly doing a harsher self critique than I would offer, but that is usually the way. 

The side photo shows it sat in balance perfectly well


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## gus3049 (4 Oct 2011)

Hi Ian,

As with Colin I do like this but I think your comments show you are only moderately happy with it. 

To my eye:
I think the ball is too small!!
I agree that the pedestal could be slimmer or with a great curve in the middle to give it more shape.
Also agree that the bowl could have a shallower curve.

I think it would look good if there was more connection (balance??) between the pedestal and the ball, thus the comment about the shape of the pedestal and the size of the ball.

As it is its an attractive item, I like the engraving on top of the bowl, it would be nice to have a better view of that.

Lets all keep this going, I have rescued my last piece from the firewood pile and have decided just to push it until there's nothing left or I at least like it  

Thanks to those who have offered their congrats on the WOW cover. I was a bit gobsmacked when I opened the page! :shock:


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## Philip Streeting (4 Oct 2011)

Ian,
Great to see such a big shift in thinking beginning to happen - I look forward to the next stages and changes that will occur. 

Colin - I think you are doing yourself an injustice in believing you do not have any creative or artistic ability. Your recent work should help you to disprove your theory. Developing creativity or creative approaches to your work takes time and patience. Take risks sometimes - you never know! Breakthroughs come in unexpected momemnts.

Phil


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## Silverbirch (4 Oct 2011)

Thanks for the helpful and encouraging comments guys, which I`ll take on board when I do version 2.
Gordon, here is a shot of the top of the bowl. The radial lines were carved with a small "v" carving tool.
When I posted this piece, I had the feeling that I`d perhaps seen something similar elsewhere ( although not, I think, exploring the idea of balance specifically). Although not consciously trying to imitate another person`s work, I think one of the problems with looking at too many images of turned work is that it can make it harder to be original, at least in your own mind. 
I suppose part of the answer is to spend more time looking at primary sources, if that`s the correct expression, such as nature, architecture etc. and also at glass, pottery etc.

Ian


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## gus3049 (4 Oct 2011)

Ian,

You could try taking the pedestal almost to a point with a small cup in the bottom of the bowl. If it won't balance by itself, you could cheat with a very thin pin :lol: 

Version 3?


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## Silverbirch (4 Oct 2011)

> If it won't balance by itself, you could cheat with a very thin pin :lol:


What! And destroy my artistic integrity? :shock: 
Maybe if I spin the bowl like the spinning plates in the circus it would balance for a few seconds at least, while I take a quick pic. :lol: 

Ian


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## gus3049 (5 Oct 2011)

Silverbirch":5tycatw5 said:


> Maybe if I spin the bowl like the spinning plates in the circus it would balance for a few seconds at least, while I take a quick pic. :lol:
> 
> Ian



Parfait

Or a motor in the the pedestal???

With the ball going up and down as it spins.


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## Wood spoiler (5 Oct 2011)

gus3049":2hjp5qi4 said:


> Silverbirch":2hjp5qi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe if I spin the bowl like the spinning plates in the circus it would balance for a few seconds at least, while I take a quick pic. :lol:
> ...



And what about the flashing light???


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## gus3049 (5 Oct 2011)

Wood spoiler":94tk80e2 said:


> gus3049":94tk80e2 said:
> 
> 
> > Silverbirch":94tk80e2 said:
> ...


 And why not?


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## Wood spoiler (5 Oct 2011)

Inspired by Ian's good looking effort at "balance" I am going to have another go at the balance scenario. 

I am working through some different ideas and just as Ian did by publicly declaring such I am obliging myself to do it

p.s. Thanks Phil for keeping an eye on us - your continued interest and encouragement is very much appreciated


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## gus3049 (7 Oct 2011)

Well now......

I did rescue the lump of box from the woodpile.

I continued hacking at it.

I looked at it and it fought to get back into the woodpile.

I had another go.

Looked at it again.

Shall I? Shan't I?

What the heck, this is about development. The creativity bit I'm thinking about. So here it is at its present stage of development. :shock: Sorry about the number of pics but it looks very different depending on the side you are looking at. In the flesh, it continues to be 'interesting'


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## mark sanger (7 Oct 2011)

Hi Gordon 

It is brilliant the way you are going with these pieces. 

It has been great to watch the thread and how the work of all in it is developing.

Keep it up guys it is an interesting thread.


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## gus3049 (7 Oct 2011)

mark sanger":1adork48 said:


> Hi Gordon
> 
> It is brilliant the way you are going with these pieces.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mark,

I wish I could see where I'm going :? Only one way to find out though


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## Wood spoiler (7 Oct 2011)

gus3049":1q942rqa said:


> Well now......
> 
> I did rescue the lump of box from the woodpile.
> 
> ...



I will surprise you now.

with the twists and turns and different facets of the piece - is this one worth trying colouring :shock: on some of the internal facets? As a photographed piece in two dimensions it is confusing as to what is going on - hence the thought. 

It certainly has made something striking out of the otherwise "firewood" pile


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## gus3049 (7 Oct 2011)

Wood spoiler":13h3wbq3 said:


> I will surprise you now.
> 
> with the twists and turns and different facets of the piece - is this one worth trying colouring :shock: on some of the internal facets? As a photographed piece in two dimensions it is confusing as to what is going on - hence the thought.
> 
> It certainly has made something striking out of the otherwise "firewood" pile



Staggers back in amazement :shock: 

You have hit on the main problem with this. Even when its turned in the hand its not exactly clear where all the connections go. In fact, one of them is a bit thinner than intended for this very reason. It was almost unconnected rather than unbalanced!

Good idea to see if there is a way of colouring to guide the eye.

Veronica thought is was 'orrid' when it started and right she was. Somehow or other the wood seems to be giving up its secret and letting me find something in there. Still not 100% convinced but will continue. Not a lot of wood left though :lol:


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## Silverbirch (14 Oct 2011)

Hi folks,
If you`ve been following this thread, you might remember the piece I posted a few days ago on the theme "balance":





Well, I`ve reworked it after thinking about my first effort and considering the comments made here. 




I`ve slimmed down and reshaped the stand so it`s now more slender in relation to the bowl. I decided to change the little black sphere for a smaller teardrop type shape. 
As for the bowl itself,(which is n`t really a bowl,more a solid shape with a hollow in it, ) I inserted a disc of black wood in the centre as I wanted a shallower depression so the teardrop could be seen more easily. and so that it would balance on its base rather than settle in the depression. 




I rechucked the base in my cole jaws so I could reshape it to a more rounded profile. I have left a rim, as the buttons on the jaws prevented me from reprofiling right up to the edge as I would have preferred and I couldn`t think of any other way of rechucking and getting it to run concentrically.
I need a vacuum chuck!
As each of the components is separate, they can be swapped around to balance in different ways.








I quite like the teardrop/onion shape. I`m going to have a play around with that next.
Comments and criticisms welcome!

Ian


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## gus3049 (14 Oct 2011)

Silverbirch":dcbudm5w said:


> Hi folks,
> Well, I`ve reworked it after thinking about my first effort and considering the comments made here.
> I`ve slimmed down and reshaped the stand so it`s now more slender in relation to the bowl. I decided to change the little black sphere for a smaller teardrop type shape.
> As for the bowl itself,(which is n`t really a bowl,more a solid shape with a hollow in it, ) I inserted a disc of black wood in the centre as I wanted a shallower depression so the teardrop could be seen more easily. and so that it would balance on its base rather than settle in the depression.
> Ian



Hi Ian,

Like it more now. In fact, I reckon that I prefer it with the 'bowl' upside down. The fact that you can swap all the elements around is fun. Do like the teardrop too. I think the pedestal still needs to have more shape, much thinner in the middle.

Great stuff though.

I am having a lathe avoidance month  Laying kitchen floor, plastering walls and inserting beams for new ceiling in the kitchen. Really good for a damaged back. However, I keep looking at my 'balance' piece and wondering where i can take it and have yet to think about this month's challenge. Must put head and hands into gear.


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## Silverbirch (14 Oct 2011)

Thanks for your comments Gordon. I think I`ve done as much as I want to with this particular piece, but as I mentioned, I want to try out a few ideas using my onion shape, not balance-related this time. 
We`re having work done at home too. I`m not actually doing it myself, but it doesn`t half have an impact on the daily routine, and consequently my level of focus on things spinny.
I need to get my head round this toymaking challenge too, which I must admit is leaving me feeling distinctly underwhelmed with excitement. :roll: 

Ian


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## mark sanger (15 Oct 2011)

Hi Ian

I really like the last piece, very simple and impactive. Keep on with this one for sure.


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## Silverbirch (15 Oct 2011)

Thanks Mark, will do.

Ian


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## Wood spoiler (16 Oct 2011)

I like what you've done to the place - as they say.

The star in the refinements is the "onion"

It looks a complete and stylish piece. Looks good and fantastic craftsmanship

Well done =D>


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## skeetoids (16 Oct 2011)

Hi Ian,

Really impressed with this piece, it takes a lot of motivation to rework a piece and you've done a great job.

There are a bunch of ideas for this piece and I hope you take the time to explore them, looking forward to how you proceed with this idea.

Cheers,

Lee.


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## Silverbirch (16 Oct 2011)

Thanks for the supportive comments guys. We all need a bit of encouragement!
I`ve got lots of ideas about different directions I could take to develop what I`ve shown here. Hopefully, I can bring some of them to fruition.
I`ll keep you posted.

Ian


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## boysie39 (7 Nov 2011)

Is this posting history now or are you all working towards a big release for the Xmas.
Dont let it fade away ,after all the effort that Phillip and me put into it.
The minute I turn me back off you go at a tangent.


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## gus3049 (7 Nov 2011)

boysie39":2uk87nik said:


> Is this posting history now or are you all working towards a big release for the Xmas.
> Dont let it fade away ,after all the effort that Phillip and me put into it.
> The minute I turn me back off you go at a tangent.



Hi Eugene,

Its not dead its resting. Like me on my back. The ideas are buzzing and as soon as I'm up and about I'll be back on the lathe. 

I'm sure the others have a few other things to occupy them. Silly lot still want to pay the bills and the mortgage instead of doing interesting stuff.

Nice to see you back


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## nev (7 Nov 2011)

gus3049":1lk325an said:


> boysie39":1lk325an said:
> 
> 
> > Is this posting history now or are you all working towards a big release for the Xmas.
> ...




...Pining for the fjords :?:


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## gus3049 (7 Nov 2011)

nev":2nuv1e3s said:


> gus3049":2nuv1e3s said:
> 
> 
> > boysie39":2nuv1e3s said:
> ...



Up before the beak? Enjoying his nuts? Nailed to its perch perhaps though why a Polly would join to a fish I have never been sure?

I just had to have a quick look at the sketch and it is still funny after all these years. Brilliant stuff.


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## boysie39 (7 Nov 2011)

The old ones are always the best!!
Hiya Gordon, still having back probs. it is a bummer this not feeling good is'nt it. I have hundreds of idea's of what to make NOW
but when I get back to the shed zilch nothing.
I was considering selling my thoughts but I can never remember them !!
Good to hear from you SIR 
Get well soon


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## Wood spoiler (26 Feb 2012)

The Long awaited? nay delayed next step prompted by this months Challenge

Posted to show the item in movement

Please do not comment until February Challenge results announced - but then feel free

http://s1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa3 ... V02068.mp4

Sorry - you have to tilt your head 90 degrees!


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## nev (29 Feb 2012)

is that a motor i can hear or just the sound of your balls rattling?


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## Wood spoiler (29 Feb 2012)

nev":2tnuomov said:


> is that a motor i can hear or just the sound of your balls rattling?


I

Just my rattling balls!

:shock:


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## boysie39 (1 Mar 2012)

After this months challenge I should think that there are lots of people who should get involved in this aspect of turning.
I'm sure when Phil he looks at the pictures posted he will be quite pleased.
It may have acted as a spur to some who have been on the fringe hopefully.


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## Wood spoiler (1 Mar 2012)

boysie39":2ust8rzc said:


> After this months challenge I should think that there are lots of people who should get involved in this aspect of turning.
> I'm sure when Phil he looks at the pictures posted he will be quite pleased.
> It may have acted as a spur to some who have been on the fringe hopefully.



You know Boysie - when your right , you're right!

Time to pick up this whole dimension and give it a shove. Turning and Talking Balls for the last month certainly takes it all back to where we were, especially when you look at ians interpretation on Balance with the Ball on top.Another Month or two and Gordon will be back up and running er .... well walking anyway, and as always more the merrier


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## gus3049 (1 Mar 2012)

Wood spoiler":333nw3ih said:


> Time to pick up this whole dimension and give it a shove. Turning and Talking Balls for the last month certainly takes it all back to where we were, especially when you look at ians interpretation on Balance with the Ball on top.Another Month or two and Gordon will be back up and running er .... well walking anyway, and as always more the merrier



'ello Colin,

Glad to see this thread resurrected. I am hopping actually - with frustration that is. However, there are some things that need to be done to the house for our long term comfort and convenience and they all involve lots of physical labour so I have to take it steady. The muscles are all on song but I still need to take care of the back. I think your couple of months is about right.

It would be nice to involve more than the three of us that have responded so far though. Lots of the new members look interesting so maybe there will be more interest.

Any more thoughts from Phil to spur us on??


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