# Workshop Build



## treds1 (29 Nov 2011)

Hi i've been lurking here for a while, and thought it was about time I made my first post. 

i'm currently planning a new workshop build having not built anything on this scale before, and was hoping for some advise on a few points. 

i'm looking to build a 16ft by 12ft timber framed with an apex roof, on a concrete base. I am planning to use 2*4 
for the framing and roof struts, then damp proof membrane before battens and shiplap cladding. I am planning on fully insulating between the studs and then osb boarding on the inside. I am going to require planning permission, due to proximity to boundaries and proposed height so am looking to get the design finalized asap so i can put in the application. 

i'm sure i will have plenty or questions, but for starters... I have seen conflicting advise as to weather a couple of courses of bricks are required so am a bit confused. Should i be considering two courses of bricks before the framing or not. 

I am currently drafting a mock up in SketchUp, that ill post once complete. 

Thanks in advance.


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## Charlie Woody (29 Nov 2011)

Well all I can say is that local to me there is a well respected company that builds garages, carports, garden rooms etc etc and they always put a row of concrete blocks onto the concrete base. In the factory the sole plate has a damp proof strip attached which sits on the blocks and the cladding overlaps the outside of the blocks. They say that this way the water runs down the cladding and away and so avoids the sole plate sitting in a pool of water in wet weather.

Hope this helps.


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## OLD (30 Nov 2011)

If the frames are fixed on the edge of the base and the cladding goes past the interface rain is shed clear of the base this design has worked fine for me i use treated timber for sole plate only on a dpc and cast in threaded rod with nut and washer as anchors. I also use breathable membrane under the cladding.


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## MikeG. (30 Nov 2011)

Whilst I'm briefly here, allow me to point you to this which I wrote a while back to help members with their workshop builds. Please put the building on a plinth........you will thank me for years to come.

Cheers

Mike


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## treds1 (1 Dec 2011)

Thank you for the advise guys, are there major benefits using a brick plinth? Haven't had any real prior experience laying bricks, so that does put me off going down that route slightly.


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## treds1 (6 Mar 2012)

Currently awaiting on planning permission for my workshop build, so am working on finalizing material lists etc. I have been designing the framing with 400mm centres, but is this an overkill or would 600mm centres suffice?

Any thoughts would be appreciated?


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## Shultzy (6 Mar 2012)

treds1, I put mine onto a single course of block paving with DPC between it and the timber, no mortar. As Old said as long as the outer cladding clears the base the water will drip away. Check my build for more tips.


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## beech1948 (6 Mar 2012)

I would just look at Mike's diagrams and follow exactly.

I build my workshop on two courses of engineering bricks. I am not a brickie but I just worked on the basis that if I took my time it could not be too hard. The blue engineering bricks are just about impervious to water and are very hard.

The key to Mike's diagrams are the access for cold air above the insulation to provide a means to ventilate the workshop and to remove any accumulated moisture from the outside.

al


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## RogerBoyle (6 Mar 2012)

treds1":1ojj2r56 said:


> Currently awaiting on planning permission for my workshop build, so am working on finalizing material lists etc. I have been designing the framing with 400mm centres, but is this an overkill or would 600mm centres suffice?
> 
> Any thoughts would be appreciated?



600 centers is fine as you are boarding with OSB on the inside 

Roger


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## deserter (6 Mar 2012)

As my former c&j lecturer used to say bricklaying is as simple as putting one on top of two. 

I'm sure there's more skill to it really but for a two brick high plinth you really can't go wrong.


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## treds1 (7 Mar 2012)

Guys thanks for the responses, 

Have planned to basically follow Mikes build thread definitely looks like the way to go. Am definitely going to go with the two brick plinth, i'm fairly confident that I should be able to lay the bricks with minimal difficulty. Ill put up some plans soon.

Unfortunately though plans may have to be put on hold for a while, as I have noticed a roof leak after all the rain we've been had in the last couple of days, and am awaiting a quote from a roofer but is going to require replacing flashings some tiles underlay etc.. So i'm guessing it will be expensive or even more expensive hopefully not as I really don't want another winter in a uninsulated shed!


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## RogerBoyle (7 Mar 2012)

Get more than 1 quote 
and check each company with trading standards
Ifthey do not give a land based number other than 0800 they are probably of the traveller variety

Roofing is one area where you are more likely to get a cowboy
Certainly in the Midlands this is the case 

Roger


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## treds1 (7 Mar 2012)

Roger,

Definitely agree with you, made sure to call them on their land line the first time. Have checked companies house and all looks ok but had not thought of trading standards thanks for the heads up.

On the off chance, can anybody recommend a good roofer in the Norwich / North of Norwich area .

Cheers

Nick


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## treds1 (3 Apr 2012)

Right roof disaster over! for the time being at least, so looks like things will be able to progress with the workshop build once planning has been approved (fingers crossed Planning officer has said they cant see any problems with it)

Have been meaning to get round to to putting up the plans for a while, so here goes.







Don't think there are any glaring issues, but please feel free to comment.

I do have one question if anyone can help. I will obviously need to attach the framework to either the brick plinth or to the concrete slab, what would be the best way to go about this?

Cheers

Nick


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## billybuntus (3 Apr 2012)

From experience I've always found windows in a shed of that size are a waste of time. Better off having the wall space. It'll just end up being cold in winter and red hot in summer and as a consequence you may have humidity issues due to the temperature fluctuations.


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## Deejay (3 Apr 2012)

Afternoon Nick

*I do have one question if anyone can help. I will obviously need to attach the framework to either the brick plinth or to the concrete slab, what would be the best way to go about this?*

build-a-shed-mike-s-way-t39389.html

Shown in red on the first drawing.

Cheers

Dave


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## Cegidfa (3 Apr 2012)

Hello treds,

On my build (Workshop build with a difference, in Projects) I fixed the sole plates down with 7mm x 100mm Rapier screws that fit into a 6mm hole in the brick. And because it's windy here, I also sunk galvanised straps in the concrete as Mike has shown. HTH.

Regards...Dick.


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## treds1 (4 Apr 2012)

Thanks for the advice, couple more questions on the back of that. 

1. Casting L straps into the base, makes a lot of sense, I'm guessing (forgive the stupid question) that once you have smoothed off the concrete slab, you then have to insert the straps at relevant points and then tidy up the concretes surface around the straps. 

2. Can anyone recommend where to get the relevant straps. 

3. Will the rapier screws be OK screwed into engineering bricks. 

4. On another note, I have been looking at breathable membranes for wrapping the frame, most that I come across are said to be for roofing underlay, is this also suitable for wrapping the frame? 

Cheers 

Nick


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## Cegidfa (4 Apr 2012)

Morning Nick,

Point 1, 
Yes, plunge them in after smoothing. The tricky part is positioning, if you want the straps to go up the studs - as opposed to folding them over the sole plate. 
Folding over the plate only ties down the plate. If you fix them up the stud, more of the structure is tied down; this is really what they are designed to do, and what I did. That is why they are so long.  

Point 2,
The straps can be bought at any builders merchants such as Travis Perkins.
They usually stock what are called ‘Simpson Strong ties’ but any manufacturer will be ok.
Go with whatever is in stock, it should all be to a standard.

Point 3,
Yes, if you are butch enough to drill a hole in the first place :shock: :wink: engineering bricks are hard, be warned. You will probably need a roughty toughty mains hammer drill to have any effect. There are other makes of direct (no rawlpug needed) masonry screws, so, once again, go with what is available. Don’t forget to get the bit (several) that fits your particular screws - usually a T30 Torx bit. 

Point 4,
They make specific ‘frame wrap‘ but I don’t know if there is really a difference between roof and frame stuff? Tyvek is very expensive, so try Klober, or once again what is stocked locally. As you haven’t started building yet, can I persuade you to be radical and put the insulation on the outside? This stops dead the thermal bridge from all frame parts and increases the u value substantially. The down side is that you will have to use a celotex/ Quintherm board type which is more expensive, but would save on heating costs in the long run. It would also mean that you don’t need a frame wrap, so that cost can be diverted into the insulation cost. I then intend to use rockwool in the walls and this would act as a sound deadener as well.

Point 5,
Ok, this is my add on. Don’t be ‘backwards at coming forward’ at the builders merchant.  Be bold and ask for an account. This will give you access to trade prices, and in my case, free delivery on all timber and sheet goods....they want your money in these hard times!

If you have more questions, don’t be afraid to ask. There is no such thing as a dumb question

Regards...Dick.

PS. Billy Buntus has a good point. I have wall and roof windows and it is a pain when the sun comes out. The first thing that is required is curtains, because of the glare.
Also fluorescent lighting gives much reduced shadows, as opposed to daylight. But, it is nice to be able to see outside; if it can be managed, try to fit windows on the north elevation. This gives the kind of light that artists use, so if you get fed up with woodwork :shock: you could always change tack


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## treds1 (4 Apr 2012)

Dick

Thanks for the info, think that's answered everything (for the moment sure ill be back with more). Should know by the end of the month if planning is granted so trying to get organised so i can make the most of the two bank holidays in May

Thanks

Nick


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## kirkpoore1 (4 Apr 2012)

Cegidfa":rrt11rfs said:


> Morning Nick,
> 
> ...
> Regards...Dick.
> ...



See Dick, didn't I tell you you'd be the expert by the time you were done with your shop?

Nick, I think your shop is a little small for side windows, but a skylight or two would probably help a lot. Around here you can get them in tinted glass so the glare is so bad--maybe that will be an option for you.

Kirk


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## treds1 (4 Apr 2012)

You maybe right about the windows, but I am really keen to have some natural light and will also help to make the building a bit softer aesthetically rather than just a large box at the bottom of the garden. Ill have to give it some thought. I may also be stuck with them as they are on the planning application!


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## Cegidfa (4 Apr 2012)

Hi Kirk,

Ah, but the definition of an expert - X is the unknown factor, and spert is a drip under pressure....that’s me :shock:  :wink: 

Nick,

I have to agree wholeheartedly with your reasoning to Kirk. They were and still are my views too. It’s just that the reality of the sunshine pouring in is a pain, so budget for some blinds. 

Regards...Dick.


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## kirkpoore1 (4 Apr 2012)

Cegidfa":21qpywpv said:


> Nick,
> 
> I have to agree wholeheartedly with your reasoning to Kirk. They were and still are my views too. It’s just that the reality of the sunshine pouring in is a pain, so budget for some blinds.
> 
> Regards...Dick.



The blinds will keep prying eyes out of the shop, too. But you'll have to dust them regularly. 

Frankly, the more natural light you have the better. If you can afford to give up the wall space, go with the windows. In that case, plan to put in shelves before moving your stuff in. It's easier to do stuff like that when the shop is empty.

Kirk
who has been having too much fun running dust collector pipe around machines...


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Apr 2012)

Don't forget that windows are a lot bigger security risk than a wall-- sometimes there's a trade off.


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## Charlie Woody (4 Apr 2012)

Nick

If you do have windows and the sunshine becomes an issue and / or for security you can do what I have done .... make "blinds" our of 6mm MDF and hinge them from the top of the window frame. You can then fold them up towards the ceiling and secure them with out of the way .... I use some chain with a hook on the blind and the end of the chain screwed to the ceiling. Add paint to the blind and you have an easy clean cheap solution.


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## treds1 (5 Apr 2012)

Will definitely be installing curtains/ blinds, to stop any prying eyes, though a shutter of some form isn't a bad idea as far as security is concerned.

Thanks for all the advise, I just want to get started now!

Regards

Nick


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## treds1 (30 May 2012)

Right planning permission sorted, and now have a rather large hole at the bottom of the garden ready for the base. 

I'm amazed at the volume of soil generated, still shifting it into a skip, rather glad that its cooled off somewhat that makes the process easier, hopefully should get it finished tonight.

I guess everyone likes picture so here goes.  







One quick question

With the hardcore , would you put this within the shuttering, or would should I have a slightly larger area of hardcore then sand and then the shuttering on top. It probably does not matter to much I guess but thought I would ask the question.

Cheers

Nick


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## simocco (30 May 2012)

treds1":47vw52o2 said:


> You maybe right about the windows, but I am really keen to have some natural light and will also help to make the building a bit softer aesthetically rather than just a large box at the bottom of the garden. Ill have to give it some thought. I may also be stuck with them as they are on the planning application!



sky light?


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## Charlie Woody (30 May 2012)

Personally I always keep the hardcore within the shuttering - leave about 75mm of a void. Then when you pour the concrete this keeps the hardcore from view and also stops it from moving out from under the base. Yes it is hot weather for ground work .... just done a small base for garden shed and found it hard going in the heat!


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## treds1 (31 May 2012)

Thanks Charlie you have confirmed my thoughts, definitely makes the most sense to do it the way you suggested.

Managed to move the majority of the soil last night, will finish off tonight, then I just need to break up the hardcore some more. Ill be glad once the ground works are done and I can actually start building the workshop.

I am looking for windows at the moment, has anybody made their own, or is it not really worth the time involved?

Cheers

Nick


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## Phil Pascoe (31 May 2012)

Hunt around, you might be able to pick up mis-measures from a double glazing supplier. The size isn't that important if you've not yet built.
I made mine, they didn't have to be opening, and I picked up glazed units from 6 old bar fridge doors.


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## Noggsy (31 May 2012)

Treds, good luck with your build. It's worth taking the time to look through Cedigfa's build for inspiration and also for the odd, ahem, pitfall that he came across. It's a fairly lengthy read, but very interesting and inspiring in my opinion and certainly should provide you with loads of ideas. I also found it assignations to see the way that other people helped out with technical and other help. As I say, good luck and keep the pics coming.


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## treds1 (1 Jun 2012)

Hopefully I may have found a supply for windows, new but slight seconds for a reasonable price, the guy is getting some more at the weekend so will have to see if anything is suitable.

Noggsy ill check out the thread thanks.


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## treds1 (10 Jul 2012)

Things are starting to progress at long last, finger crossed on the weather but the base should be poured on Thursday and then I have next week off to get cracking with things.

I'm just about to put in my timber order, and am debating on whether or not to go with pressure treated timber what are peoples thoughts? 

I was planning on using pressure treated for the roof trusses / ridge and also for the sole plates, but is there any real benefit using pressure treated for the framing?

Cheers

Nick


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## treds1 (21 Jul 2012)

Well its been a busy 10 days! Things have finally started progressing with my build so thought i would post a quick update with a few pictures.

2.5 m3 of concrete poured and steel ties set into base. Luckily we managed to get the only dry day of the week even though the concrete didnt turn up until 3pm it had cured enough to be able to cover with a tarp before the good old British weather went back to usual.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-td_d ... AG0492.jpg

Having previously never really laid any bricks, it took a couple of days to get the brick plinth finished. I was really pleased with the outcome, but i was glad that i only had to do two courses.





Unfortunately good old British weather decided to carry on, but as i had booked the week of work i decided to just get on with it and get wet so with the help of a gazebo to keep my tools dry things progressed.











Luckily towards the end of the week the weather cleared and I managed to get the frame completed.






Currently working on the roof, hopefully ill manage to get it completed before work gets in the way on Monday.






Its really satisfying how quickly the framework goes up after spending so long planning and sorting out the concrete slab unfortunately things will slow down now due to other commitments and have to order the rest of the materials (OSB and cladding) before progressing much further.

I have also been considering ventilation of the roof space, i am planning a 50mm gap between the insulation and the roof boarding with openings at the eves, do i need to include a vent at the ridge of the roof to allow air to escape? If so are there any recommendations on the best way to achieve this?

Nick


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## Dibs-h (23 Jul 2012)

treds1":1wdrop9k said:


> I have also been considering ventilation of the roof space, i am planning a 50mm gap between the insulation and the roof boarding with openings at the eves, do i need to include a vent at the ridge of the roof to allow air to escape? If so are there any recommendations on the best way to achieve this?
> 
> Nick



Or full fill the roof, use breather-able membrane on top and counter-batten. Then use a dry fix ridge system - Klober & Marley both do one. Makes fixing the ridges easy and vents as well.

HIH

Dibs


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## treds1 (23 Jul 2012)

Dibbs

Thanks for you reply. 

Just to query is a dry fix ridge system suitable for use with Felt shingles? as I thought that they were for use with ridge tiles?

Cheers

Nick


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## Dibs-h (23 Jul 2012)

treds1":361mqbrb said:


> Dibbs
> 
> Thanks for you reply.
> 
> ...



Having fitted more than I care to remember - I don't see why they couldn't be used on felt shingles. Suppose the real decider is what ridge tiles you'd be using. If using felt ones - then probably not.

Dibs


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## treds1 (6 Aug 2012)

Things moving along well, though progress is slower due to work / weather etc, but i am hoping to get the roof on this weekend, and then start on the cladding.






Dibs - I am planning on using the shingles at the ridge, so does not look like a dry ridge systems will work but thank you for the suggestion.

I am still unsure what to do at the ridge, I have been looking at other build threads for inspiration on what to do at the roof's ridge, and the majority of build don't seem to include any ventilation system at the ridge, and only eves ventilation. 

Am I worrying to much over having some form of ridge vent, or will things be okay without. (I do have to keep telling myself that this is a workshop not a house!)

Any thoughts would be welcome

Cheers

Nick


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## Dibs-h (6 Aug 2012)

Nick

Assuming you're talking about something like this? - 

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/roof ... e_vent.htm

These lot do a ridge one - http://www.tapcoeurope.com/ridgevents.htm

and their address is a UK one.

HIH

Dibs


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## Cegidfa (6 Aug 2012)

Nick,
The lower link in Dibs post are the ones that I used - they are in Yorkshire. It's got to be better than nothing, and it might extend the life of the shingles, as well as lower the shed temp. a little.

Regards...Dick.


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## treds1 (6 Aug 2012)

Thanks guys, ill give them a call tomorrow and get a quote I only need about 4.5 to 5m so hopefully they do smallish packs.

Thanks again 

Nick


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Aug 2012)

+1


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## treds1 (7 Aug 2012)

Right have spoken to Tamco and have orders the ridge master plus, not to bat at £50 + VAT + del and should have it by Friday. Fingers crossed there wont be any rain this weekend, and ill be able to get the roof on.


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