# What's this bit on my lathe for?



## AndyT

I've posted before about my old Barnes 41/2 treadle lathe and have been enjoying using it. 

There's a bit on the front of the tailstock that is puzzling me and I wonder if anyone knows what it might be for. 







I mean the lump at the front with a hole in. It's a shallow, blind hole with no connection to the inside of the tailstock. It's nothing to do with clamping the quill in place - that's done by the lever at the back. 

I wonder if it's meant for anchoring a measuring tool to - but I can't imagine what. 

Does anyone have any ideas?


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## adidat

Could it be for holding a rod with a pipe clamped dripping coolant?

Adidat


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## Graham Orm

As it's a treadle lathe..........perhaps a candle? (homer)


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## Henning

Is there any graduation on your tailstock quill? If not, it may be to hold a measuring clock to measure travel of the quill?


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## AndyT

Hmm ... keep the ideas coming! 

I've tried using it to mount my dial indicator, and I don't think it is for that as there is no way to clamp anything tight and a wobbly measurer would be no use. And it's more use clamped to the tool carriage. 

Coolant delivery might work, but only if I treadle fast enough to get anything hot...

I like the idea of a candle holder - perhaps I could make something suitably decorative out of brass - like Victorian pianos had!


The hole is 1/4" diameter and 5/8" deep.


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## Jamesc

I am sure I read somewhwere in the dark and distant past that it is to hold a tallow pot to lubricate the tailstock centre.

Now I.ve just got to find out where I found this......

James


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## Racers

Its a speed hole

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVV_COOey0E

Pete


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## AndyT

Racers":3p41nq2u said:


> Its a speed hole
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVV_COOey0E
> 
> Pete



Thanks Pete! I could drill some more and save my legs!

:lol: :lol:


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## AndyT

Jamesc":2gjevgqq said:


> I am sure I read somewhwere in the dark and distant past that it is to hold a tallow pot to lubricate the tailstock centre.
> 
> Now I.ve just got to find out where I found this......
> 
> James




That does sound plausible ... it would be great if you could find where you read it.


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## chipmunk

Looks as if it might be a useful place to store your chuck key when you have a drill chuck in the tailstock?

...but at 1/4" it would probably only fit a 3/8" chuck.

Jon


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## Cheshirechappie

The only honest answer is "haven't a clue", but rxh's lathe and the ones illustrated on Tony Griffiths' site ( www.lathes.co.uk ) have the same feature as well.

One thought was that it might be an oilwell for the tailstock barrel, but as there's no connection to the bore, and no evidence that I can discern from the photos for a plugged drilling horizontally from the front of the casting (which is something you'd have to do to produce the oilway) that can't be it. Some older machinery used oilwells closed with small corks to prevent ingress of dirt, so it seemed a possibility; not a good one, since the cork would soon go walkabout, but just about possible.

Maybe Barnes offered as an accessory a special tailstock attachment (sensitive drilling attachment, perhaps?) that needed this hole as an anchor point, so to make the attachment usable on all models, they put this hole in as standard.

Unless you find a thingy with a stub that neatly fits this hole amongst the box of bits that came with the lathe, I suspect it may remain unexplained.


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## rxh

'Sorry, I don't have a clue either. The hole in my tailstock is 1/4" diameter and 3/4" deep.

It might be worth sending a query to [email protected]


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## dickm

Looks indeed like something for mounting a tool associated with the tailstock; indexing/pivot point for a multi-tool holder (like a capstan) maybe. Pretty sure Sparey has a design for something like that in one of his books.


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## rxh

It works as a chuck key holder, as suggested by chipmunk above, but I feel that was not the intention


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## Graham Orm

I've decided it's the chuck key holder.......I've had to or I wouldn't have slept.


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## AndyT

Thanks again for all the head scratching. Threads like this are better when someone knows a definite answer. 
I found Sparey's design for a tool holder and it doesn't need an extra fixing. 
I'll ask the lathes expert if he knows. 

I've tried my chuck key but it's too wide - I suppose I could always turn it to fit!


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## AndyT

Well, I contacted Tony at Lathes.co.uk and he replied straight away and said:

"It's the holder for "white lead" - used to lubricate the tailstock centre. When new, there would have been a dipper rod in the hole to apply the highly toxic material. The same fitting can be seen on lots of lathes of a similar age."

So James got it right - thanks everyone. 

I don't think I'll go for period accuracy on that one!


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## BRYAN

Its a dual casting at manufacturing stage. You have continental lefthand drive version-headstock on left.
The tailstock clamp would be drilled through that hole and clamp fitted there for righthand drive British lathe.

I think you will find I am right.

Bryan.


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## dickm

The white lead sounds very plausible, if toxic.
Oddly, the Myford lathe forum on Yahoo has just had several postings about the uses and advantages of a lever operated tailstock. Possibly this was what I was thinking about when I wrongly suggested Sparey's capstan attachment. Still think there might be mileage in that idea.


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## rxh

The "clamp boss" and the "mystery hole boss" are not the same size so I don't think BRYAN's suggestion is correct.


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## Graham Orm

Chuck key holder...........end of.


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## Cheshirechappie

AndyT":2y14xh9a said:


> Well, I contacted Tony at Lathes.co.uk and he replied straight away and said:
> 
> "It's the holder for "white lead" - used to lubricate the tailstock centre. When new, there would have been a dipper rod in the hole to apply the highly toxic material. The same fitting can be seen on lots of lathes of a similar age."
> 
> So James got it right - thanks everyone.
> 
> I don't think I'll go for period accuracy on that one!



Well, that's a new one on me - you learn something every day, don't you?

It raises the possibility that the hole could be used for it's original purpose, substituting a heavy oil or light grease for the white lead. The downside would be that the well would gradually fill with swarf and other muck, potentially allowing carry-over to the centre hole, thus throwing the job off-centre by enough to make a difference on something needing accuracy. I suppose you could use a pin on a cork, though. (Personally, I use an oilcan - the oil stays clean!)


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## chipmunk

I was pretty sceptical but found this...

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...es/hardinge-cataract-tailstock-dauber-197041/

and loads more pictures here...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=l...OYyoFg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1366&bih=600&dpr=1

Well there you have it

Jon


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## AES

One thing I like about this place - you learn something new every day.

Thanks all

AES


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## rxh

Yes, surprising things can be discovered (or at least surprising to a non trained machinist such as me). Whilst I was searching for an answer to Andy’s question about the tailstock hole I found Barnes advertising material that said their lathes were capable of ball turning but didn’t explain how. Now I know that ball turning attachments are available for other lathes but apparently this feature was built into Barnes lathes. It was true – I found out that it was possible as the photos below show. The topslide can be swivelled 180 degrees around its pivot.


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## AndyT

Now that is interesting. I'd been thinking about that but had not tried it yet, so very interesting to see the proof!


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## jimi43

Personally I would have said it was for holding some form of lubricant for the tailstock such as the highly toxic "white lead"....wait...oh! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I too love these threads...highly educational and certainly Tony is your man for the answers on these things. He was a true star when it came to my old Taylor (of Hulme) lathe

Jimi


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## chipmunk

Here's a post script...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08tc_fRY5ps&feature=c4-overview&list=UUKLIIdKEpjAnn8E76KP7sQg

:wink:


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## jimi43

I simply love Tubal Cain's work. His book on hardening metal is superb.

He also has a great way of explaining things and he just oozes experience.

However...my wife says that it doesn't matter if it is beautifully made...there is no way she's having Mercurochrome daubed on her boo boos by anyone!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Cheshirechappie

That's an imitation Tubal Cain. The REAL Tubal Cain (T.D.Walshaw) was born and brought up near Millom on the Cumbrian coast (except it was Westmoreland then, I think), and didn't have an accent like that!


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## jimi43

Cheshirechappie":3kc2cbax said:


> That's an imitation Tubal Cain. The REAL Tubal Cain (T.D.Walshaw) was born and brought up near Millom on the Cumbrian coast (except it was Westmoreland then, I think), and didn't have an accent like that!



Really!!!...I always thought it was he! You learn something new every day. So...the book I have on metal hardening is British...by this TW Walshaw who is presumably now dead and someone has taken his name?

The guy in the USA is..none the less...a very experienced chap and I have learned a lot from his simple and humble tips and wrinkles.

Jim


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## Harbo

A piece here about the two Tubal Cains.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com ... ain-19675/


Rod


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## Tinbasher

I thought it was a receptacle for ones snuff!


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## dejaa

Hi
Given the size of the tailstock I would say it was for a handle. I used a lathe such as this in the 60's when I was a student engineer, it had a handle for 
Sliding the tailstock back and forth easier than with the tailstock body.
David


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## brianhabby

Tubal Cain is just a pen name used by these two men. The British chap used the name separated by a space and the guy in the States uses the name without a space. However, neither of them is the original Tubal Cain, he was the first metal worker mentioned in the Bible and the reason why the name was chosen as a pen name by these two people. 

See this Wiki

regards 

Brian


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## Hudson Carpentry

If not already said its a dobber well. You're missing the dobber. Lubricant would be in the well and a bit of pointy metal sits in it covering the hole. You use the dobber to dob the lubricant on whatever.

Makes a nice little project on the lathe to turn one completing the lathe


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