# Super glue?



## Peggy (4 Oct 2012)

I see that the advice from Axminster pen making instructions is to put three coats of super glue as a final coating on a wood turned pen. Is that absolutely necessary? I suppose it seals in the linseed oil and the wax...but isn't there anything else that could be used? Super glue seems a bit extreme.

Many thanks,
Peggy


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## Tazmaniandevil (4 Oct 2012)

I use CA glue on pens & other small items. It is a durable finish, and easy to apply. The very fact that pens are made to be used could mean a wax or BLO finish might rub off more easily over time.


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## nev (4 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy
Super glue (CA) is just one way of finishing a pen. It provides 2 things, a shine and a protective hard coating that doesnt wear as quickly as a simple polished wood finish.
As a pen is handled any polish or wax finish will quickly be rubbed off and the finish become dull. it is of course a matter of personal preference whether to have a shiny finish or not, but if you use a standard wood finish and polish to a sheen , your customer will probably expect that sheen to remain while the pen's in use and won't expect to have to re polish it every time they use it.
There are a number of methods of applying the CA just have a search on youtube. As with all things it takes a little practice to get the hang of it so have a practice on some scraps before you sacrifice a pen kit


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## chipmunk (4 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy,
Have you seen the BLO CA finish used on pens?

If you haven't then take a look at this clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orcgOf4siqc

HTH
Jon


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## nev (4 Oct 2012)

chipmunk":262izbw7 said:


> Hi Peggy,
> Have you seen the BLO CA finish used on pens?
> 
> If you haven't then take a look at this clip...
> ...



Thats the chap whos method I managed to get the hang of and currently employ.
IME pound shop superglue is just as effective, especially when learning, no need to splash out on the decent stuff.


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## woodyturner (4 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy I have been making pens for over 20 years now and never used a ca finish I tried it but didnt like it one bit but thats me the worst bit was the smell.
I use several different types of finish depending on what material I make the pen with for wood hut make several products especially for pens it is expensive but it last for years https://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/compo ... l-coat-6oz they do two sticks of polish as well one gloss one satin but I use Carnauba Wax Stick on top just to give the pen that bit extra protection jut remember antique furniture has a polish finish they just need looking after good luck and enjoy


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## Peggy (4 Oct 2012)

Thanks so much for your replies everyone. I'd be relieved if I don't have to use super glue, I don't fancy it at all. I am about to check out all the links you've posted, but hope i'll be able to afford the expensive finish Woody recommends as I'd much prefer that.

Peggy


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## NikNak (4 Oct 2012)

Peggy....


+1 for the Turners Retreat Crystal coat, and the wax sticks too....

I bought a bottle 3 years back, have made i cant remember how many pens, and still have half a bottle left, so i can confirm it lasts a very long time, and the finish lasts a very long time too, or at least no-ones come back and said "they've gone dull..."

The wax sticks i've used on pens, ring boxs, even a couple of goblets too. The 'satin' one is satin, but i'd say the 'gloss' one isn't much shinier. But hey.... for the price give em a go.... 


Nick


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## Peggy (4 Oct 2012)

Ooh thanks Nick, that sounds perfect, I'm so relieved I don't have to use super glue I didn't fancy it at all.

Peggy


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## spasm (5 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy,

i used supper glue and BLO worked ok but then fount crystal coat and havent used anything else on wood since.

spam


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## Peggy (5 Oct 2012)

Thanks Spam, that's reassuring, I'll definitely look up crystal coat then.

Peggy


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## loz (5 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy also check out chestnut microcrystaline wax, gives quite a durable finished. 

The CA finish is very good though, give it a go, just so you have, *but please please full face mask when you do*.


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## Peggy (5 Oct 2012)

Oh, it must have horrible fumes then.

Peggy


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## woodyturner (5 Oct 2012)

Peggy":13azof4d said:


> Oh, it must have horrible fumes then.
> 
> Peggy


Fumes is an understatement it stinks makes your eyes water hits you in the back of the brain and makes your toes curl up LOL it is very toxic


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## Peggy (6 Oct 2012)

Yuck. When do the pens become usable? I presume the fumey effects wear off? What if the user chews the end of the pen?!

Peggy


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## woodyturner (6 Oct 2012)

Joking aside a mate of mine was involved in the development of the modern resins has developed a very nasty reaction to all these chemicals like C/A and resins and has to avoid them like the plague now or the fumes will kill him so just much is safe to use ?


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## Paul Hannaby (6 Oct 2012)

Personally I think liquid CA and a spinning workpiece is potentially a recipe for disaster. Apart from that I dislike any form of plastic finish so my pens are finished with oil only. They have a more natural appearance and still feel like wood!


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## Peggy (6 Oct 2012)

Oh! Woody that sounds absolutely awful what a worry for your friend

Paul, thank you, what a relief. I like the sound of that, I think I will use oil too. What is the best type to use I wonder?


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## Peggy (6 Oct 2012)

If I treat the pen with oil, would I then seal it with wax? 

Peggy


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## woodyturner (7 Oct 2012)

Peggy":2lwspyy7 said:


> If I treat the pen with oil, would I then seal it with wax?
> 
> Peggy


Hi Peggy 
It all depends what oil you use as to what finish you want some oils will give you a satin finish some a gloss most will give you a very durable pen with a deep finish but it dose take a lot longer to do as it will need several coats over several days and you can put polish over the oil after but the best thing I can suggest is to experiment with finishes and find the one best suited to you personally using oil on pens takes to long for me but some swear by it the same with supper glue get hold of some cheep kits and just have a play till you have found the perfect way for you or just put some wood between centers and experiment with that and carry on asking your questions Happy turning


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## spasm (7 Oct 2012)

Hi peggy,

I did seal the pens with oil then crystal coat but found atfter a bit of time the Shalac in the crystal coat was giveing the pens a rough fealing so just useing crystal coat now works well

Rob


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## Peggy (7 Oct 2012)

Thank you Woody and Rob,

I'm glad you said that Woody, about the questions as I have asked rather a lot since joining! I think I will use oil and wax, I suppose I can treat them in batches and don't mind if it takes a while. I would prefer to avoid chemicals as much as possible. I just hope it does get to the stage where i'm in a hurry to polish them because I've so many orders to complete!!! 

I have ordered a pen mandrel which comes with five pen kits so I'll start with those. I also ordered from Axminster a 3/4 inch chisel, is that enough to get me started? Or should I also get a smaller chisel? And I'm going to order a pen assembly kit which I see makes it easier to put it all together. 

Peggy


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## bodge (7 Oct 2012)

Which chisel did you order Peggy?
So far all I have used to make a pen is a spindle roughing gouge and a 1/2 inch skew. But I will be the first to admit that I am very new to pen making and indeed, wood turning so this may not be ideal. The general vibe I have picked up is that you need to experiment a bit and adopt whatever works best for you personally. What works for you, may not work for me and what works for me, may not work for the next turner along the line.
You will need pen blanks, or some way of cutting wood into blanks of a useable size, a bandsaw seems to be the preferred method for most. Also a way of holding the blanks so that you can drill a hole square through the centre lengthways. I have a drill press and a drill press vice for this, but with care a hand/cordless/power drill could be used with a pair of large grips/bench vice or even just a few bits of wood screwed together to make a jig. You will need a pen mill to square off the ends of your prepared blank (this will likely be included in your mandrel kit) or failing that a disc sander can be used with a little practice. Glue to set the tubes into the blank, CA glue for speed or epoxy if you are prepared to wait overnight for it to cure. 
For the turning part, everything you need to mount the blanks should be included in your mandrel kit. Obviously the mandrel, correct size bushes to hold the blank in place and guide you to turning to the correct size. Also whatever finish you have decided on. As above, I use a spindle roughing gouge to get the blanks round and roughly down to size and then I use a skew to work in the final shape and clean them up. I will admit that the skew is not the easiest of chisels to use though, so maybe a spindle gouge may be better. For final sanding I have various grits from 80 grit (which I rarely need to use) through to 600 grit which should be smooth enough for a finish to be applied. It looks like you won't, but if you decide on a "plastic" finish such as CA of lacquer then Micromesh pads from 1500 through to 12000 would be a good idea.
For putting the pen together you can indeed use an assembly kit, though to be fair I think this is unnecessary if you have a bench vice, but that is just me. 

All the above works well enough for me personally, but I expect that others on the forum can offer alternatives that may work better for you. As above, just get stuck in and see what works for you and above all, enjoy it!


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## NikNak (7 Oct 2012)

woodyturner":1ebsdu1n said:


> Peggy":1ebsdu1n said:
> 
> 
> > If I treat the pen with oil, would I then seal it with wax?
> ...





i'm not knocking Mr Woody but.... even cheaper than cheap pen kits (or the ones that are coming with your mandrel) is to just spin up/turn a piece of the wood you're looking to make the pen with and apply some of the intended finish and see if its the look you're after... just a thought...  


Nick


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## woodyturner (7 Oct 2012)

NikNak":lnlzptxz said:


> woodyturner":lnlzptxz said:
> 
> 
> > Peggy":lnlzptxz said:
> ...


Naughty Nick didnt read all that I said or (just put some wood between centers and experiment with that)  LOL :lol: :lol:


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## NikNak (7 Oct 2012)

oooppss....    
mr woodster is right, think my eyes musta just glazed over that bit, :lol:


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## Peggy (7 Oct 2012)

Thank you for your replies Pete Woody and Nick, 

The chisel I ordered is actually a roughing gouge. Perhaps I need some other types of chisels as well. I am getting a drill press. All the new equipment, bought with the grant, will arrive at the end of this week! My husband is doing up the shed and making me a work bench so things are happening!

Luckily I have heaps of wood to practise with. I've so much wood I'm not going to buy any blanks hopefully ever. We have our own patch of woodland, so I have lots of seasoned branches and bits and pieces. I'm going to chop up the branches into blank sized pieces and use them, I presume that will work ok? 

I will have to post a picture when I've actually made my first pen! And I will figure out a way to polish pens that soits me.

Peggy


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## woodyturner (7 Oct 2012)

Have your own path of woodlands how jammy is that I am envious all I can say Peggy is all the very best in your new venture and I look forward to seeing some of your pens in the future don't keep us waiting to long


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## Peggy (7 Oct 2012)

Thank you Woody, yes I am lucky, all the trees planted by my mum over twenty years ago so its an extra special patch. And we've loads of gorse and willow so I plan to make gorse and willow pens too. And fuchsia. And i've been collecting drift wood also!

Peggy


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## bodge (7 Oct 2012)

Your own patch of woodland!That is just too cool. I am suitably envious.
As Woody said above, keep us to speed with your progress.


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## loz (8 Oct 2012)

Peggy":yi6qyzss said:


> Oh, it must have horrible fumes then.
> 
> Peggy



I meant to protect your face from flying ca


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## loz (8 Oct 2012)

Peggy":2is5d9di said:


> Thank you for your replies Pete Woody and Nick,
> 
> The chisel I ordered is actually a roughing gouge. Perhaps I need some other types of chisels as well. I am getting a drill press. All the new equipment, bought with the grant, will arrive at the end of this week! My husband is doing up the shed and making me a work bench so things are happening!
> 
> ...



Peggy,

I seriously suggest you get some training before you enter the shed on your own and start. Im very concerned you dont know what chisels to use, and the fact you though a full face mas was for fumes,

As a member of the IWG i feel at duty to be sure you are safe, please visit a local chapter, or contact one for some/even a days tuition,

Please see the map of tutors ( not inclusive or complete ) and map of chapters on the site - any chapter secretay can point you at a local turner that will spend an hour with you.


http://www.irishwoodturnersguild.com


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## woodyturner (8 Oct 2012)

Hi Peggy another tool you may need for your pillar drill to aid you in drilling your pen blanks is a cross vice and an engineers square it will aid in getting your blank dead center and upright turning pens just need a bit of thought and a lot of common sense 
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... ce--75mm(3)-prod851091/

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod23310/


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## Peggy (8 Oct 2012)

Thank you Loz, for your concern and the link, but it's ok, I'm not on my own because my husband is a very experienced carpenter and wood carver. He has used a lathe before and knows much more than me about tools, and he has a full face mask...he's just told me. 

Woody, thank you. I have told my husband about the cross vice and the engineers square so we are going to look to buy them here as the postage might be too enormous if I ordered them from Axminster.

Peggy


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## Peggy (10 Oct 2012)

I have a 3/4 inch roughing gouge and I think i'd like to order a spindle gouge, but unsure what is the best size to get for making pens? Any advice would be very welcome.

Thank you, 
Peggy


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## woodyturner (11 Oct 2012)

All you will need now is an 1/2" skew but practice with it before you attempt to turn a pen, turn your pen to round then use the skew for your finishing cuts if you feel you need a spindle gouge then a 3/8" or 1/2" will do you just fine but all you really need for pens is your roughing gouge and a very sharp skew which your husband can show you how to sharpen I'm sure


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## Peggy (11 Oct 2012)

Thank you Woody, yes my husband will be able to sharpen tools for me. Ok then i'm going to order a half inch scew, probalby from Axminster as the woodturning tools here in Ireland seem to be even more expensive than in UK.

I painted my shed today. All the equipment I ordered with the grant will arrive very soon, including the lathe, so that's exciting!

Many thanks, Peggy


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## loz (11 Oct 2012)

Peggy":4z590jok said:


> Thank you Woody, yes my husband will be able to sharpen tools for me. Ok then i'm going to order a half inch scew, probalby from Axminster as the woodturning tools here in Ireland seem to be even more expensive than in UK.
> 
> I painted my shed today. All the equipment I ordered with the grant will arrive very soon, including the lathe, so that's exciting!
> 
> Many thanks, Peggy



Hi Peggy, your going to have to be able to sharpen tools yourself, woodturning tools require much more frequent sharpening than tools of the woodworking world, and im sure hubby isnt in the shed waiting for to jump when you need him. You must turn with sharp tools, nearly sharp is blunt, wont leave a good finish, and is dangerous ( require pressure to cut ) 

eg
a plane, might traverse only several feet of wood and be done with , a skew chisel might traverse several hundreds of feet of wood in a few minutes due to the rotation of the wood, - im sure some maths can give you the idea, rotation and the dia of the blank over time ( wheres chas ! ) 

i might sharpen several times in an hour the same tool dependant on what im doing.

on another note a 1/2 skew is all you need for pens, you can rough pen blank with the same skew, and turn to finish with same skew, i use an oval, but its preference, i find i can move the oval more easily around the tool rest for pens, i prefer the square for other spindle work where i don't move around as much, eg for large beads.


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## loz (11 Oct 2012)

Peggy":6f3vlh9r said:


> as the woodturning tools here in Ireland seem to be even more expensive than in UK.



have you tried, http://www.thehutwoodturningsupplies.com/, or Stanley Raitt , or the woodshed ?


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## Peggy (11 Oct 2012)

Thank you Loz, then I'd better get my husband to give me a few lessons in tool sharpening. I haven't tried all those sellers, I'll look them up.


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## andersonec (11 Oct 2012)

Isn't spray Lacquer any good?

Andy


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## loz (11 Oct 2012)

andersonec":33ldi1nm said:


> Isn't spray Lacquer any good?
> 
> Andy



Yep - and if burnished well - can give a very good glass finsh, durability though im not sure.


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## woodyturner (11 Oct 2012)

Spray Lacquer is fine depending on the quality and how many coats you put on use a good quality lacquer and apply at least 4-6 coats over sanding sealer with woodturners stick over the whole thing and the pen will last you for years if treated right


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## CHJ (11 Oct 2012)

loz":2xt0bmx9 said:


> .....eg
> a plane, might traverse only several feet of wood and be done with , a skew chisel might traverse several hundreds of feet of wood in a few minutes due to the rotation of the wood, - im sure some maths can give you the idea, rotation and the dia of the blank over time ( wheres chas ! )
> 
> i might sharpen several times in an hour the same tool dependant on what im doing.
> .




I did put this guide to peripheral speed of the turning together as a guide to show what forces are involved.

As you can see it is based on a cutting speed of 26ft per. sec. it does put into perspective the relative wear load on a turning tool, akin to a bench plane doing over a 520 yds in a minute.

Not that I can ever remember referring to it, I just tweak the speed to the sound and feel of the cut.


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## Jensmith (11 Oct 2012)

Have you considered drilling your blanks on your lathe? It is far more accurate than using a drill press if you have a drill chuck for the tailstock and a chuck for holding the blank. You just need to make sure you drill from the center of the blank out as the center of the pen needs to have a grain match.

Also drill on a slow speed - 500 rpm and remove the drill frequently to clear the chips. Colt drills are expensive but very good.


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## Peggy (11 Oct 2012)

Jensmith, I'm getting a drill press with my grant so I'll have to stick with that, but thank you for the idea.

Andy, regarding the spray lacqure, Ive more or less decided I will use oil. I'm going to order some and see how I get on with it.


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## Jensmith (12 Oct 2012)

Peggy- just be mindful that the drill will wonder, following the grain, so you may not exit in the middle. It depends on the wood but just make sure you have enough width on your blank to allow for this. Had it happen to me quite a bit using a drill press. 

Also, clear the chips frequently because when the drill gets hot it starts screaming. Not pleasant on the ears, even with ear defenders!


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## woodyturner (12 Oct 2012)

I'm sorry gentlemen I have to disagree with you on this one, I only ever drill my blanks on a pillar drill and used in the correct manner they will never wander and it is far quicker than drilling on a lathe it is a very basic woodworking skill you don't see a carpenter drilling wood on a lathe


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## CHJ (12 Oct 2012)

Inappropriate selection of drill type, grinding and clearance angle and most importantly lack of sharpness may all lead to drill wander regardless as to how the blank is held.

It is essential though that you have the blank held in line with the drill axis, although this is likely to be automatic on a quality wood lathe fitted with a good chuck, many budget lathes (and some not so cheap) do not have the tail stock quill in line with the headstock spindle.

No problem for between centres turning but disastrous for drilling or boring.


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## loz (12 Oct 2012)

Sharp drill bits, and a pilot hole if necessary on larger dia requirements.


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## Peggy (13 Oct 2012)

Thank you for your advice everyone. I'll post a photo when I've made my first decent pen.


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