# I. Sorby 14" brass back tenon



## RogerP (12 Apr 2011)

Yet another brass back acquisition  Any idea of he date please?


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## Alf (12 Apr 2011)

Someone'll have to take a shot at dating it on features - the I. Sorby name was used by numerous companies between 1814 to 1963 (iirc). No Mr Punch mark though, which might narrow it down to pre-1870.

You do know that backsaw acquisition is an addiction and you may never recover, right?


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## Henry Disston (12 Apr 2011)

That is a fine, early looking handle. Good find!


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## RogerP (12 Apr 2011)

Alf":2iaelqlt said:


> Someone'll have to take a shot at dating it on features - the I. Sorby name was used by numerous companies between 1814 to 1963 (iirc). No Mr Punch mark though, which might narrow it down to pre-1870.
> 
> You do know that backsaw acquisition is an addiction and you may never recover, right?



Thanks for the info. ... I seem to just have caught the addiction 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/a-quid-at-the-car-boot-was-i-done-t49542.html
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/another-car-boot-1-brass-back-t50038.html


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## Martin Cash (13 Apr 2011)

Ray Gardiner has a very useful site on backsaws that he maintains.
Here is a timeline from that site:
http://www.backsaw.net/timeline/

The London pattern - flat bottom saw handles started in 1700 but saw making in Sheffield not until the 1750's.
So there is a start for you. Somewhere between 1756 ish and 1870 from Alf's information.
Ray himself might be able to give you a more accurate date.
Very nice saw by the way.
Cheers
MC


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## RogerP (13 Apr 2011)

Thanks very much for that information Martin. 

Fascinating website Ray has put up, I will have a trawl and maybe contact him later.


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## bugbear (13 Apr 2011)

RogerP":2es9dv6m said:


> Thanks very much for that information Martin.
> 
> Fascinating website Ray has put up, I will have a trawl and maybe contact him later.



Are you planning to clean, tune and use these (nice!) saws?

BugBear


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## RogerP (13 Apr 2011)

bugbear":29i1fdem said:


> Are you planning to clean, tune and use these (nice!) saws?
> BugBear



Yes I shall, sympathetically, just good enough to get them back into use. In fact it looks like the Sorby has recently been sharpened (probably professionally) and works very well as is.


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## squern (27 Oct 2011)

I believe I.Sorby worked from this address about 1828>

Hope that is interesting.


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## jimi43 (27 Oct 2011)

It's interesting to compare all the "Sorbys"...there were quite a few!

Here is my "Robert" Sorby....






...of the Kangaroo mark...











It's interesting to compare handles through the ages...there are some fine pieces of workmanship in these saws...

Lovely find Roger!

Jim


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## Allylearm (28 Oct 2011)

jimi43":3a1dqobt said:


> It's interesting to compare all the "Sorbys"...there were quite a few!
> 
> Here is my "Robert" Sorby....
> 
> ...



Sorry to jump in I was given a Rip saw by same manufacurer by a retiring Joiner, I converted it to a cross cut as had no real use for a Rip. I know I should be flamed but I was 16 and needed a crosscut as at the time cheap saws were not available and you had to sharpen your own or get it done for you. It has a funny wee lug at the point on top edge never quite understood its purpose.


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## matthewwh (28 Oct 2011)

What a magnificent resource.

Thank you Ray for the time and energy you have invested to collate and share your knowledge - it is greatly appreciated.


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## Corneel (28 Oct 2011)

Both Sorby's in this thread are incredibly nice saws! I'm jellous.


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## Jacob (28 Oct 2011)

Here's my one and only Robt. Sorby (sorry not brass backed tenon). £3 ish on ebay. 24" blade. 7tpi. Similar marks to Jim's above, plus three crowns.
I've used it quite a bit. Can't feel any difference between straight back and skew back saws. I guess it's just fashion.
With this saw I found the reason for the nib, as follows: On my first go with it the thought came into my head "hang on a sec, how long is this saw? I don't want to bend it". At the same instant the nib hove into view with the answer.
I know there is a rumour that no one knows what the nib is for, but it's nonsense. It's very handy with a new or unfamiliar saw. Also useful for a beginner - if the nib isn't there then a dab of felt tip serves the same purpose.


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## jimi43 (28 Oct 2011)

What a beautiful saw Jacob!!

And a great price too! Goes to show that you can get some serious bargains on FleaBay!

Your explanation of "the nib" makes perfect sense too......

Lord...I will have to go and sit down now! :wink: 

Jim


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## bugbear (28 Oct 2011)

Jacob":3gru03jq said:


> I know there is a rumour that no one knows what the nib is for



Well, there's an explicit statement in a Disston booklet.

Still, compared to the great Jacob Butler, what would Disston know of saws?

BugBear


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## Jacob (28 Oct 2011)

bugbear":3pnvpj6i said:


> Jacob":3pnvpj6i said:
> 
> 
> > I know there is a rumour that no one knows what the nib is for
> ...


So whoever wrote the book didn't know. Very silly.
But I know - and now you know too! You can carry on pretending you don't know, if it pleases you.
What about the lump of wood with a hole in, at one end? Were you told officially what it was for, or work it out for yourself? Maybe you are still wondering? :lol: :lol:

PS "what would Disston know of saws?" - no doubt a great deal, but in this instance we are talking of something he apparently did not know about saws. Or was he going senile, was it a typo? Who knows, who cares?


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## Allylearm (28 Oct 2011)

That was one idea I never thought off as never had a problem withdrawing the saw in the up stroke. I cannot remember me on the down thrust ever bending the blade either. As it was a rip saw I thought it had more to do with saw kerf and keeping a clear a path as it was rip and was longer than normal saws. The tip configuration was in three parts stamped on top edge, a left and right angle meeting a upright pin. I also thought it was Sorby trade mark as not seeing it on other makes.

My Disston's never had such a thing though they were both crosscuts. My cheap throw away Jack/Sandvik, etc never had it. My other saws were Tyzack Tenon so totally different configuration.


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## matthewwh (29 Oct 2011)

The nib has been a bone of contention for some time, it has also been suggested that it is useful for clearing the waste from a kerf.

Personally I think it was a clever marketing ploy by disston to promote converation about their tools on te internet, that has certainly been the effect at any rate.


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## pedder (29 Oct 2011)

C'mon Guys (the gal ist grown up enough to don't take part) 
don't let this wonderful thread with beautiful saws die in a nib discussion. 

Repress yourself! There is nothing new one could add to that discussion. 
Everything is said, every joke is made. 
If you really can't hold it, open a new thread.

Please.

Pedder





Edit:
The truth is: it is a fashion thing. :lol: :lol:


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## Jacob (29 Oct 2011)

Allylearm":2p3efw6l said:


> That was one idea I never thought off as never had a problem withdrawing the saw in the up stroke. I cannot remember me on the down thrust ever bending the blade either. .......


Not a "problem" but a "need to know" the first time you use an unfamiliar saw - the nib being a simple visual aid, though not essential of course. I confess to having kinked a blade a few times when I was a careless beginner, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. As a teaching aid the nib (or a felt tip mark 3 or 4" from the end) is a really good idea for a beginner.
It's obvious IMHO. My story above (asking the question and getting the answer) - is true. It's what happened. If no nib I would have carefully pulled back the saw to familiarise myself with the length, without giving it a thought, as we all would do. Particularly with this saw (and a rip saw which came with it) both being different lengths from my other saws.


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## Jacob (29 Oct 2011)

pedder":1sqdtprl said:


> ...
> don't let this wonderful thread with beautiful saws die in a nib discussion. .....


Oh all right. This is the other saw which came with the Sorby, about £15 the two with postage ISTR. Nice bargain I thought.
Sorry it's not Sorby or brass back! 28" 4tpi rip saw.







It's Ibbertson I guess, (Thos?) but it is barely legible. Seems to say (???)rtson &Co, Makers, Sheffield, Cast Steel. There may have been more to the left as they seemed to like nice symmetrical labels.
Could be another ???bertson such as Robertson?






The 2 old saws with 2 modern ones (both Sanderson & Kayser "The British Saw". I had them new in 1982. Very nice saws).
Blade lengths inches; 22, 24, 26, 28. Nibs as length tell-tales would be very useful if alternating between saws.






PS Ibbotson apparently, not Ibbertson. Still fits.


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## Corneel (29 Oct 2011)

I like these old saws a lot too Jacob. The two modern ones are most probably perfect good ones too, just not as pretty. I really like the vintage Brits, also because my hands are not so wide. The Distons have much wider handles and are not so comfy for me. It's a pitty sending handsaws from Brittain to the Continent is so expensive, due to them being longer then 60cm. The choice of nice old tools is so much better in your place. Oh well, I'll just have to grab a ferry one of these days...


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## bugbear (30 Oct 2011)

Jacob":vu56plnl said:


> It's obvious IMHO.



You've found a use for a nib that pleases you. That's fine.

But once again you confuse "can be used for" with "was intended for".

I've used a workmate as a platform for trimming a hedge.

I'm not fool enough to think that's what Ron Hickman had in mind, and I'd rather have the humility of ignorance than delude myself that a wild guess constitutes knowledge.

BugBear


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2011)

So you still "don't know" what the nib is for? :lol: 
It's a bit like saying that you don't know what the handle is for, but in the meantime, until told by a higher authority, you will use it to hold the saw.
Disston got it wrong in his book. Nothing unusual about that - lots of the woodwork "bibles" are full of errors. So he didn't know what it was for, so what? 
Did anybody ask Sorby, Tyzack, Ibbertson etc what it was for? It's not just a Disston feature.

PS 
"I've used a workmate as a platform for trimming a hedge." 
If you encountered a strange unfamiliar device and found that after a lot of fiddling and thinking it only had one use, then it would be reasonable to assume that that was what it was "intended for". Workmate has lots of uses; as a platform for trimming the hedge being just one of them.


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## Tom K (30 Oct 2011)

bugbear":1upf9jxq said:


> Jacob":1upf9jxq said:
> 
> 
> > It's obvious IMHO.
> ...



From the tone of this it sounds like you think Jacob's crackers. He knows you know!


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## pedder (30 Oct 2011)

Jacob":1gqqub23 said:


> pedder":1gqqub23 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Thank You, that is nice! 

Cheers
Pedder


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2011)

Just noticed this thread tenon-or-dovetail-t55379.html featuring a "Sanderson & Newbould" saw. They became Sanderson & Kayser (as per my saws above) in 1961 apparently, so noskill's saw could be 50 years old or more, though it doesn't look it. 
They are all old names going a long way back in Sheffield industrial history. The names change but the people, the skills and the traditions would carry over.


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## RogerP (30 Oct 2011)

Just to get the thread back on topic


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## Harbo (30 Oct 2011)

Nice c'word - what makes are they?


Rod


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## RogerP (30 Oct 2011)

Taylor, Charlesworth, Disston, Sorby, Turner, Tyzack and the small one at the bottom is H.G. Long They're all Sheffield made - except the Disston of course. I think they've all been on here individually at one time or another.


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## Harbo (30 Oct 2011)

Or pity - the page has just rolled over!

Rod


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