# Barn Conversion to workshop



## Tonytygwyn (23 Aug 2015)

Good Morning,

Iv'e been lurking on this website for sometime and I've looked at many a workshop build thread with some jealousy, but finally I have the opportunity to build my own workshop. 

I was made redundant at the end of last year and since then I've got married and moved house twice and now find myself in South Wales overlooking the Towy Valley with a barn ripe for conversion into a woodworking shop. 

My redundancy is funding the the workshop build and I hope to run a small business creating furniture from this workshop in the near future.

The barn is single storey, stone built, and measuring 18m x 5m.

The Barn is one of 2 barns and a farm house that are being renovated/modified. A Planning application have been submitted to the Breacon Beacons National Park for all three, but as I'm not yet altering the external appearance of the barn which will house the workshop work has commenced.

After the planning discussions with the architect it was decided to house the Biomass boiler (this will heat all three buildings) in the end of my workshop. there is some urgency to get this Barn at least water tight and the boiler commissioned by the first of October to qualify for the RHI scheme before the next drop in rates. With this space given up to the Plant room for the boiler the workshop space has shrunk to 11.5m x 5m.

I started work a few months ago but was only told about the October 1st deadline 2 weeks ago so its now a massive rush to get the barn finished.

Here are some pictures of current progress. (picture heavy)

Before work started






After Removal of internal render









Digging out old cow shed floor only a foot deep in places




Nearly all removed




In with a micro digger to remove soil 




Resulting waste piles









It was at this point it was decided to put the biomass boiler in the barn and due to the size of the boiler, tank and pellet silo the dividing wall had to come down
so the roof has to come off to allow the removal of the wall.






wall gone and sunny for a change









new block peer wall to separate the 2 areas workshop and plant room.





new drain installed for toilet in workshop





missed a few photos of the hardcore being installed. I hired a mini red rhino crusher to recycle all the concrete removed and most of this went back in over 250mm of hardcore and then binding. temporary roof installed to try and keep concrete dry. 

DMP, insulation installed ready for new slab to be installed





More photos coming soon.


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## stewart (23 Aug 2015)

That looks like a great space!


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## Charlie Woody (23 Aug 2015)

Sounds a great project. Look forward to watching progress. Thanks for sharing.


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## Claymore (23 Aug 2015)

Looks like a lovely place Tony......I'm sure all your hard work will pay off in the long run but looks like your going to be very busy! don't ya just love planning offices?.
You are in lovely place so don't forget to enjoy yourself and surroundings as its quite easy for the build to make a dream into a nightmare 
Cheers and have fun
Brian


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## Paul200 (24 Aug 2015)

Claymore":39eqd45x said:


> You are in lovely place so don't forget to enjoy yourself and surroundings as its quite easy for the build to make a dream into a nightmare
> Cheers and have fun
> Brian



So true. We're in a similar position here in Scotland - living in a beautiful spot but with masses of work to do. We try to make a point of having a day off every now and then but it's so easy to get bogged down in the work.

That's an amazing space! Hope it all works out for you Tony and, as Brian said, remember to have fun!

Cheers

Paul


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## Tonytygwyn (24 Aug 2015)

Thanks for your reply's I'm having fun with the build... even when it rains on the day of the concrete pour and for three days solid after. 

Current situation 

Need to get the whole roof off strip all old timber fascias and soffits, install new wall plate and timber lintels over 6 openings and 8 oak pads to support new king post Trusses being installed a week tomorrow.

Concrete after pour 100mm in the workshop (under floor heating and self leaving screed to be installed later) 
Over 150mm in the plant room to support the 1500ltr tank and pellet silo.





current progress on roof removal. Decided to re-roof and have new trusses as the barn is riddled with wood worm.





A roof ladder arrives tomorrow to remove tiles along the ridge...


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## Tonytygwyn (27 Aug 2015)

I'm still working on stripping the roof, my its tedious work.. I'm breaking at least 1 in 10 so will need to get some replacements from the salvage yard.

At least I have a nice view from up there






I have interrupted the roof stripping by fitting some new oak pads for the truss feet to sit on
the trusses are going to be douglas fir raised collar king post in construction, I had the intention of making these myself but because of the tight deadline a framing company is making them and are due to fit them on Tuesday.... better get all the prep work done. 





also new holes for the filling pipes for the pellet silo





nearly finished stripping the slates....


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## Woodchips2 (27 Aug 2015)

Good luck with the rebuild and well done for all your recycling =D> 

Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences especially when you are up against deadlines =D> =D> 

Regards Keith


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## pcb1962 (28 Aug 2015)

That's a lovely workshop space. Have you thought about putting some windows in the new roof? You can never have enough daylight in the workshop.


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## custard (29 Aug 2015)

Tonytygwyn":2k78fw32 said:


> My redundancy is funding the the workshop build and I hope to run a small business creating furniture from this workshop in the near future.




Good luck Tony, I really hope it works out for you. I'm a full time furniture maker operating out of a similarly sized workshop. It's not the workshop that wins the business, nor the tools and equipment, it's all about finding the customers willing to pay for original designs and quality work. I've got my fingers crossed that you can locate those customers and get your designs in front of them.


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## Tonytygwyn (30 Aug 2015)

To answer your questions.... Yes I agree finding work will be the hardest part of starting the new business especially when I've moved into a new area and I don't have a large network of family and friends to do networking. My wife is local so I will rely on her to spread the word. I do have some family work to start me off and I'm also looking at placing some work in a local shop which is run by a cooperative by local craft people, and I have some more ideas to get my products known.

Regarding windows I do have plans to add roof lights in the barn but as they are a planing constraint they will be added later when planning is approved (see attached)
there have been some changes since the plans were submitted the new layout is marked in red. I'm also thinking that we will not have the roof light in the new W.C. as it has a window. I'm also thinking of moving the roof lights from the north face and having 2 roof lights in-between each truss on the south facing roof. (the compass arrow is wrong on the plan its opposite to the way its pointing)


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## Max Power (31 Aug 2015)

That's a great looking build. I often stay at The Plough in Llandeillo when I'm down that way , staying there Tuesday night in fact, lov ly food. .


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## heimlaga (2 Sep 2015)

This looks very good!
I like the way you recykle as much as possible and make use of an old building. I also like that you do a lot of work yourself. 

However....if this is going to be a small business I don't really understand why you would spend money and valuable space on a WC out in the workshop. My experience is that the basis for a profitable small business is keeping costs down. Investing in quality where investments are needed and cutting out all superficial costs.
A wooden outdoor privy built against the wall would be a lot cheaper to build and use and perfectly good enough for a workplace.....at least in my part of the world.


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## tomf (3 Sep 2015)

If you don't mind me asking, how much did you hire your concrete crusher for?
The rates I have had seem ridiculous for what they are.


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## Tonytygwyn (4 Sep 2015)

Some progress has been made...

I had to dig a trench for an insulated pipe to link the 2 barns I hit shale just below the tarmac so it was hard going to get the required depth.






Also the timber framers arrived to install the trusses.
1st truss




2nd truss




3rd truss 




4th truss with purlins


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## Paul200 (4 Sep 2015)

Wow! That's looking really good. And quickly


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## Tonytygwyn (5 Sep 2015)

It has taken a couple of days of hair pulling to get a square-ish frame to fit wonky walls. I've spent some time consolidating the walls and repairing the walls where needed. I've finally managed to make a start on the rafters, which have to be individually measured which has made it more time consuming than I thought. I'm learning as I go so it is taking twice as long. 

Not sure if anyone has any tips to speed things up?

I was hoping to re-use the timbers over the gable ends but it seems that the new roof has a slightly lower pitch than the old roof so these will have to been changed/modified. 

current progress


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## Trigs (8 Sep 2015)

Awesome, I'm mega jealous of that space. Good luck with it


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## Tonytygwyn (8 Sep 2015)

The weather has been nice so I've been able to crack on with the rafters... both sides are now complete still need to trim one side to length and decide on weather to fit fascia's and soffits or to have the rafters exposed like an open eave. I have one day to make the barn water tight as a very expensive boiler is arriving from Austria on Thursday. this is the current situation.


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## markblue777 (14 Sep 2015)

Looking lovely, Wish I had a space even half that size for a workshop. Nice progress so far, keep up the updates.
Cheers
Mark


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## Tonytygwyn (16 Sep 2015)

Its been a busy week and a bit.... the very expensive boiler turned up last Thursday which was a bit of a shock as was under the impression it was due this week. the weather was good but we had a rush to get the breather membrane on the roof to protect the boiler as you can never guaranty the weather, especially in Wales. 







I decided in a belt and braces approach to fitting the battens I used stainless steel screws... I know overkill but I wanted the roof to out live me. well I'm regretting this now as, in my rush to get the roof water tight I miss calculated the batten gauge I worked out the gauge was 19cm but when cutting the spacer blocks forgot to remove a batten width so the battens would be at centres. So the battens were placed at 19cm apart not 14cm...Balls   ... and guess what due to the stainless screws being rubbish a lot of the heads were stripped on screwing them in. 

Long story short... to get the correct head lap on the tiles of 100mm I've had to buy another load of battens and fit them in where required. 

You can see all the extra battens and the partially tiled roof below. I'm very pleased with it so far but its taking time.






All the rush to protect this beast.










In between spells on the roof and when it starts raining started building the biggest box I'll probably ever build 2m x 4m x 2.2m this will become the pellet storage silo.


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## Charlie Woody (16 Sep 2015)

Looking good. Now that's what you call a boiler & hot water tank!!! How many houses will that supply?


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## Tonytygwyn (16 Sep 2015)

The boiler will heat a 5 bed house, 2 bed holiday let, my workshop and the wife's indoor swimming pool.


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## Charlie Woody (16 Sep 2015)

That explains why it's huge!


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## Paul200 (17 Sep 2015)

Great stuff! Keep it coming.


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## SVB (22 Sep 2015)

This is a really interesting build / conversion - It's like a Woody soap. Happiness, problems, escapism of lovely location, frustrations overcome, family tension etc etc!!! All we need now is an unexplained pregnancy and you'll be a hit.

Looking forward to next week's update!

Simon


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## Tonytygwyn (24 Sep 2015)

Just a quick update work is continuing on the roof tiling I've nearly finished one side, its been slow going in between rain showers. 






The pellet silo is nearly complete, just the roof to fit.










More woody soap opera updates to follow.


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## devonwoody (25 Sep 2015)

Pleased to watch this post.


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## Tonytygwyn (29 Sep 2015)

Another quick update... This weather is allowing me to crack on with the roof
I've finished the back side of the barn. Apart from some tiles that need to be cut in along the ridge.






And I've started on the front side.. which is looking a lot nicer got the tile spacing correct and the tiles are spaced more even up to the ridge and they finish with a nice half tile rather than a 3/4 tile on the back side. There is nothing like learning on the job :wink:


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## Charlie Woody (29 Sep 2015)

Looking good, hopefully the weather stays fine.


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## Tonytygwyn (20 Oct 2015)

It been nearly a month since my last update and nothing much seems to have changed.

The pellet silo is complete
boiler installed and working (but we missed the 1st October dealine for the 5% drop in RHI payments through no fault of myself :evil: )

Half finished the roof on the yard side. Awaiting solar panels to be installed on the other half of the roof before slating around.
Dug the trench for the new electric supply to be connected tomorrow.











Installed new meter box but spayed it grey to make it blend in a little more.






Spent some time in the veg garden with the digger making piles of soil it seems. Footings going in for a retaining wall across the width to level the back area. I promise I will get round to some wood working soon. Chicken coup and run to build here soon.


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## griggs (20 Oct 2015)

That is a fantastic looking space you have there. I'm hoping to get my workshop space sorted next year.


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## Tonytygwyn (28 Oct 2015)

This may seem extravagant for a workshop but I needed to heat the workshop to qualify for the commercial RHI feed in tariffs for the biomass boiler. So in goes underfloor heating, I could have used radiators but didn't want to take up any wall space.










Liquid screed is poured today.


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## griggs (28 Oct 2015)

Nice and warm feet


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## Droogs (28 Oct 2015)

Things are going well Tony, looks like you'll have a cracking workshop at the end of it. That underfloor heating will certainly make acclimatising stock for anything you intend to make for the house as stable as possible for the future.


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## Tonytygwyn (28 Oct 2015)

shiny new floor


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## Tonytygwyn (8 Nov 2015)

Can anyone help with some advice on lighting for my workshop? 
I'm struggling choosing between standard fluorescent tube fittings, 1 on each purlin between each truss giving me a total of 8 fittings. 
Or 4 high bay light fittings again fitted centrally between each truss.
I have looked at track lighting with directional spots as well but this seems a more expensive option.

If I do choose fluorescent tubes should I use LED bulbs? And should I use twin or single bulbs in each fitting? should I fit the dust proof covered exterior grade fittings or are standard interior fittings fine I'm a little little worried I'll bash the interior bulbs with a timber.

If I go for LED warm white or cool white?

Any advice would be appreciated


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2015)

I'd be inclined to put a few tubes in for general lighting, and use small LEDs over benches, saws, etc. - it's nice to have the whole place lit up like a xmas tree, but it's expensive to install and more expensive than necessary to run. Small single bulb LED adjustable fittings are about £4, possibly less - put them where you need them. They are so cheap if you bash one once in a while, what the hell. The lamps are coming down quickly in price, Screwfix had them on offer a few weeks ago for £17.99 iirc for ten. Warm light is fine for general purposes, but the occasional blue white is good where you are trying to do things accurately (especially if you're getting older and your sight is worsening). Where I used to sit and read I had one warm and one cold/blue, which worked quite well.


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## sploo (9 Nov 2015)

Given the lack of light in my workshop I'd be tempted to go for more rather than less (perhaps on separate switches to control the level).

Be aware that if you mix light colour and want to take photos you'll give yourself problems.

I use CFL bulbs, but would go with LED strips if I did it again (and do a better job of not shadowing my working areas with my body). E.g. http://woodgears.ca/misc/led.html

Any issues with fluorescent lighting and machinery? I'm thinking of 50Hz strobing, and possibly putting them on a different phase? Not something I know much about, but I have heard of such problems with some types of lighting.


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## Phil Pascoe (9 Nov 2015)

I have LEDs over my lathe that strobe.


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## woodaxed (9 Nov 2015)

Any issues with fluorescent lighting and machinery? I'm thinking of 50Hz strobing

the rule used to be fit twin tubes with moving machinery as one tube cancels the others strobe effect


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## sploo (9 Nov 2015)

phil.p":2h9sqfxc said:


> I have LEDs over my lathe that strobe.


I was going to say that I'd have thought the pulse frequency would be much too high (1000Hz+) but then I guess that would still cause problems with something spinning at the right [wrong] rpm.



woodaxed":2h9sqfxc said:


> the rule used to be fit twin tubes with moving machinery as one tube cancels the others strobe effect


Interesting - didn't know that; thanks.


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## Phil Pascoe (9 Nov 2015)

Surely if both tubes ran off the same phase they'd strobe just the same? I can see the point of wiring two or three series of them on two or three phases in a huge place to avoid this.


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## sploo (9 Nov 2015)

phil.p":1x3nuaxn said:


> Surely if both tubes ran off the same phase they'd strobe just the same? I can see the point of wiring two or three series of them on two or three phases in a huge place to avoid this.


My dodgy understanding of electronics makes we wonder if some capacitance in the system may be introducing a phase shift, such that two bulbs in one fitting will pulse with an offset from one another (same frequency, but just at different parts of the "wave").. Wild speculation on my part.


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## griggs (9 Nov 2015)

You can get tubes that are designed not to give you the strobe effect


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## blackrodd (9 Nov 2015)

woodaxed":1ajya9s8 said:


> Any issues with fluorescent lighting and machinery? I'm thinking of 50Hz strobing
> 
> the rule used to be fit twin tubes with moving machinery as one tube cancels the others strobe effect



The last I heard of this strobe effect, and rotating machinery and materials, we were advised to fit strip lights in pairs, but a "TEE" formation whereby one strobe cancelled the other.
Please advise if this is, a load of old cobblers in which case I'll take it off my list for the next pub quiz, (been waiting to use it for ages).
Regards Rodders


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Nov 2015)

Allelomimesis. That's one for your pub quiz. It's when birds or animals all do the same thing at the same time, like flocks of starlings changing direction instantly. By the bye.  What's the TEE formation?


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## Tonytygwyn (24 Nov 2015)

The last 3 weeks have been a chore studding out all the walls and then insulating between rafters and stud work resulting in 140mm on the roof and 70mm in the walls.
I seem to have been over zealous with the ordering as I have 19 sheets left over.

1st fix electrics have been completed. In the end decided to get these lights, I'll let you know how they work.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/281371525612


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## Charlie Woody (24 Nov 2015)

Should be nice and toasty in there with the UFH this winter. I reckon it'll be warmer than my sitting room!!!!


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## xraymtb (24 Nov 2015)

#workshopenvy


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## blackrodd (24 Nov 2015)

phil.p":2spe762k said:


> Allelomimesis. That's one for your pub quiz. It's when birds or animals all do the same thing at the same time, like flocks of starlings changing direction instantly. By the bye.  What's the TEE formation?



Sorry, for not replying, I've only just found this.
As in a tee hinge or letter tee, 1 light going in the opposite direction, across the top.
I was told that this cancelled the strobe affect that can have dangerous consequences.
Regards Rodders


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## Tonytygwyn (28 Nov 2015)

Half way through second fix electrics and the electrician has got the lights working for me so no longer working in the gloom.  
I will report later if there is any strobe effect caused from the lights, but at the moment the lights seem nice and bright (photos don't show the brightness)










I hope to complete the boarding this weekend and start the jointing.

Does anyone know where this would be situated and how it would be wired? As there is very little info on the Felder website. I'm guessing near the distribution board
http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Extraction/ ... -oxid.html
with my limited electrical knowledge you wire one on these into the control unit and place the transformer coil around each machine feed wire that you want to start the dust extraction.
http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Extraction/ ... start.html

Any help would be appreciated.


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## Wildman (28 Nov 2015)

coming on nicely well done, I trust the weather is not holding you up.


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## blackrodd (28 Nov 2015)

Sorry, can't help you with the electrical question, but as Wildman says, "Coming on nicely"
And thanks for the pics, looking forward to the benches going in and the kettle and tea area sorted,
It's always worrying until that's sorted!
Regards Rodders


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## HOJ (29 Nov 2015)

A couple of observations:

I fitted LED high bay lighting in the middle of my workshop as you are doing but found I have an issue with shadows around the perimeter with the light source behind me when working, ended up with 5' LED tube fittings over the benches.

I think trying to wire in the remote control extractor system may be problematic, you will need to wire in a
CT coil either in each machine control box/starter, or at the fuse board if each machine is on separate circuit.

You will then need to provide a dedicated circuit to the extractor, with possibly no over ride option. 

I suggest you install some hard wired remote start/stop switches around the shop, depending on your dust extract system, you may still need to manually operate the blast gates for each machine.


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## custard (29 Nov 2015)

Tonytygwyn":1x5wloee said:


> Does anyone know where this would be situated and how it would be wired? As there is very little info on the Felder website. I'm guessing near the distribution board
> http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Extraction/ ... -oxid.html
> with my limited electrical knowledge you wire one on these into the control unit and place the transformer coil around each machine feed wire that you want to start the dust extraction.
> http://uk.feldershop.com/en/Extraction/ ... start.html
> ...



I can't help on this specific question, but you have my sympathy. I bought mainly Felder machinery for my current workshop, including a Felder extraction system. The hardware is excellent, but the customer support isn't too good. They seem to be given very little local flexibility and have to follow the original Austrian plan to the letter, so in areas like electrics you get almost no help and assistance. A lot of their tooling falls into the same trap in that the web site seems to miss critical dimensional information but no one locally is empowered to change it.


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## Tonytygwyn (12 Jan 2016)

Its been a while since I updated this post... 

Well most of December was wiped out by a holiday and then the Christmas holidays... So not much has changed in the interior I'm still finishing up the plaster boarding. At the end of December there has been the rush to get the solar panels installed before the tariff drop... the panels were installed and I've been trying to get the roof finally water tight between down pours. Just three more ridge tiles to fit.


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## tomf (12 Jan 2016)

What floor did you put down? It looks like a self levering concrete.


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## Tonytygwyn (13 Jan 2016)

Yes its a self levelling screed. I plan to stick a rubber floor similar to this just waiting for the slab to dry out fully...

https://www.polymax.co.uk/rubber-mattin ... -circa-pro


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## Tonytygwyn (13 Jan 2016)

While shopping around online for rubber flooring.

I have found 8 different websites and counting selling the exact same products at the same price even the same contact number. Obviously this is one company. Surely this is at least misleading to the consumer and falsifies competition. Just seems very dodgy to me... Anyone have any experience of this, is it a trading standards issue.

Well they won't be getting my business :x . Rant over

rubberflooringsuk.co.uk
ukrubbersheet.co.uk
rubbermattingco.co.uk
rubberflooringco.co.uk
expressrubberflooring.co.uk
rubbermatting-direct.co.uk
rubberflooring-direct.co.uk


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Jan 2016)

VAT fraud, maybe ... just a thought ...


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## Charlie Woody (13 Jan 2016)

phil.p":ok94j6ee said:


> VAT fraud, maybe ... just a thought ...



Possibly or maybe trying to reach top google searches?


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## Roughcut (17 Jan 2016)

phil.p":1y3drrqt said:


> VAT fraud, maybe ... just a thought ...




Maybe but I doubt it.
The tactic is to increase web presence and funnel traffic to one of the websites to make a purchase, it's not uncommon.
Usually the smaller businesses do this to try and get a slice of the pie when up against bigger more established competition on the web.


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## Tonytygwyn (24 Mar 2016)

Again it seems like along time since I updated this post.

But with the arrival of some shiny new machines next week its about time I pulled my finger out and get it finished.

Some photos of progress over the last months

I decided to tape and fill the joints rather than a full plaster skim. I regret this a little as the sanding is a real pain in the A** :evil: 











I've now finished all the sanding and half the painting has been completed. dust extraction piping and fittings arrive early next week so after the machines arrive I've got a week to connect them up before they are commissioned.










I've been leaving the laying of the floor to the last minute as my moisture meter says the floor is still wet even after 4 months of drying with the underfloor heating on.
but the floor has got to go down after the weekend.

I have still got the double doors to putt in that will replace the gable window, fit 2 roof windows, new door linings and sills and to make one new window to match existing. All work I wanted to complete before the new machines arrived but as we have only been granted planning permission for the external changes in the last few weeks they will have to be completed later.

More photos soon showing a near fully complete workshop.


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## custard (24 Mar 2016)

Looks fantastic! There's something inspirational about working in a great looking space in a beautiful location rather than a depressing, bog standard industrial unit.


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## Selwyn (24 Mar 2016)

Can I ask why you dug the original floor up? 

I get why you are doing the rest of it because its a dream workshop etc. but were you lacking head room?


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## blackrodd (24 Mar 2016)

You've made a really nice man space there, What a lovely workshop that's going to make! 
You'll have some fun in there! Very interested in the new workshop contents when they arrive.
Regards Rodders


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## biskit (26 Mar 2016)

Only watched this thread this year, you've done a fantastic job. Where have you used as a workshop for this build? Hope your business thrives when up and running . (hammer)


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## Tonytygwyn (26 Mar 2016)

biskit, Selwyn 

To answer your questions the building was previously used as a cowshed and because of this the original floor was sloping to allow for slurry run off. To have installed a level floor over the existing would have increased the floor hight so it had to be removed.


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## Tonytygwyn (1 Apr 2016)

The new machines came yesterday after a rush to get the floor partially laid. 
There are some missing items off the order, not sure how the power feeder can be lost in transit? :roll: 

But the main machines are in and are in approximate locations and have had the electrical cabling ran to them.

I fitted the wall mounted dust extractor and I've had a day working on the dust extraction pipes which is causing me some head scratching. These were a couple of jobs that a second or third pair of hands would be a great help but I'll struggle on :wink: 

some pictures of the chaos


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## markblue777 (4 Apr 2016)

that is a nice looking workshop you have there buddy.


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