# Lidl chisels



## artie (29 Oct 2015)

are coming up again in a few weeks.

Only £6.99 this time.


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## JonnyW (29 Oct 2015)

Hi Artie. Are these the same chisels Paul Sellers blogs about - in his case it's Aldi chisels (set of four)?

If so, would anyone be willing to buy me a set and I'll pay them for it and P&P - by PayPal or any means you wish (in your account before you buy them). 

I live in Shetland, so it's not going to happen me nipping along to grab a bargain anytime soon. 

Thanks

Jonny


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## artie (29 Oct 2015)

They are coming up on the 5th here. I can grab a set for you no prob.

Can't guarantee as to what they are exactly.

Here's the link.

http://www.lidl-ni.co.uk/en/Offers.htm?id=560


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## JonnyW (29 Oct 2015)

Hi Artie. Thanks for that. Appreciated. 

They seem to be the same chisels, only different name. 

If you don't mind, and if it isn't too much hassle, I'll get £20 to you for a set and that should cover P&P. 

Do you mind if I pm you?

Jonny


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## artie (29 Oct 2015)

JonnyW":3ps0ddsk said:


> Hi Artie. Thanks for that. Appreciated.
> 
> They seem to be the same chisels, only different name.
> 
> ...



Go ahead.


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## Monkey Mark (29 Oct 2015)

I've been waiting for these. I have the Lidl app, but it doesn't show any of the diy stuff in that link.


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## JonnyW (29 Oct 2015)

They don't do mail order, which is a bummer. 

Jonny


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## Monkey Mark (29 Oct 2015)

Monkey Mark":1twulhto said:


> I've been waiting for these. I have the Lidl app, but it doesn't show any of the diy stuff in that link.



Now I get it. That's for Northern Ireland. I think they are about two weeks ahead us.


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## JonnyW (29 Oct 2015)

PM sent Artie. 

Jonny


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## artie (29 Oct 2015)

Monkey Mark":2y6qce4z said:


> Monkey Mark":2y6qce4z said:
> 
> 
> > I've been waiting for these. I have the Lidl app, but it doesn't show any of the diy stuff in that link.
> ...



Often but not always.


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## artie (29 Oct 2015)

JonnyW":1jabu3fi said:


> PM sent Artie.
> 
> Jonny



and replied


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## JonnyW (29 Oct 2015)

Nice one Artie. Thanks for that. 

Jonny


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## Klaus Kretschmar (30 Oct 2015)

Please don't expect too much. You'll get what you pay for. Not more, that's for sure.

Klaus


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## Monkey Mark (30 Oct 2015)

Klaus Kretschmar":38xbtdhy said:


> Please don't expect too much. You'll get what you pay for. Not more, that's for sure.
> 
> Klaus


Well if they are good enough for Paul sellers..........


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## Rhossydd (31 Oct 2015)

Klaus Kretschmar":t464nzzs said:


> Please don't expect too much. You'll get what you pay for. Not more, that's for sure.


Have you actually tried a set of these ?
They really do give outstanding value for money and work very well indeed. I've yet to read a negative comment on them here and a lot of people here have bought a set (or two).


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## pedder (31 Oct 2015)

I don't get this. On the same forum people moan about the end of the old sheffield tools and hype to buy cheap asian made chisels. To make a chisel for 2 GBP or less, you can't obey the european standard in working men or enviroment protecting. So someone anywhere in the world is risking his health and the health of his children just we can get some cheap chisels. Not one set 3 or 4 or 5. So we spent the same money as we would have if we bought one sheffield made set. Just for the little feeling to have made a bargain. Most of us (me too) have not not enouh thins and tools but too much.

Sorry for my little morning rant. :lol: 

Cheers 
Pedder


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Oct 2015)

I use a set every day, and I've scores of "better" chisels. They are more than adequate for normal use. I defy anyone to say a £40 chisel is twenty times better.


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## JonnyW (31 Oct 2015)

I just want to try them out. 

I have nothing against a cheap tool - as long as it works. 

Jonny


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## Paddy Roxburgh (31 Oct 2015)

pedder":13g0tgh7 said:


> I don't get this. On the same forum people moan about the end of the old sheffield tools and hype to buy cheap asian made chisels. To make a chisel for 2 GBP or less, you can't obey the european standard in working men or enviroment protecting. So someone anywhere in the world is risking his health and the health of his children just we can get some cheap chisels. Not one set 3 or 4 or 5. So we spent the same money as we would have if we bought one sheffield made set. Just for the little feeling to have made a bargain. Most of us (me too) have not not enouh thins and tools but too much.
> 
> Sorry for my little morning rant. :lol:
> 
> ...




Hi Pedder,
This issue has been discussed at some length on other threads but as you raise it I would like to say, yes we all, or nearly all, would like to have clifton planes, ashley ilses chisels and even perhaps some of your fantastic saws, unfortunate;y many of us cannot afford this. What is more it is almost impossible in this modern age of globalisation to avoid buying products from the far east (where I assume these chisels are made). The computer I am writing on, the equipment in my kitchen, my daughters toys, the list is endless. To avoid far eastern goods is only possible for the very wealthy obsessive who has not only the money but the time to know the true provenance of everything they buy. As a working class self employed single parent I do not have the money or the time for this.
Okay, back to the lidl chisels, I have some and they really are not bad, for the money they are excellent. They compare well to my narex chisels although the finish is not quite as good. I have one ashley Iles gouge that I bought new and it is a different league of tool, although I'm not convinced the steel is that much better.
The really remarkable thing about the lidl/Aldi chisels is that they are better than some of the modern stanley, marples etc. These chisels are, as far as I know made in the far east and then branded with a name from the industrial past of Sheffield and sold to us at more than 5 times the price of the Lidl/Aldi chisels. There is no reason to think that they are environmentally better or that the workers get paid better to make these rebadged "english" chisels than the Lidl/Aldi offerings.
One last thing, even if I could afford a full set of Ashley Iles chisels (they're made in England but not Sheffield, in fact are any chisels still made there? Sorby perhaps I don't know) I would not want to use them for some of the functions at work. Today, yeah Saturday, I was dismantling the internal fit out in a narrow boat, I needed a couple of chisels (one big, one small) that I was not too afraid to chip as I struck a screw and that I would hit with a lump hammer if needed, sometimes I even scrape paint and rust from steel boats with a chisel (wide chisel is the best scrapper I know of). I do not open paint tins with them, that's what screwdrivers are for. However I still want these chisels to take a good edge but don't want to be afraid of taking them to the grinder and seeing money turned into sparks. The Lidl chisels are ideal for these jobs and can take a good enough edge to use at the bench, for £6.99 for 4. 
The other option is buy second hand chisels. All my saws and planes are second hand (apart from a QS block plane,Chinese), made in the great industrial past of the North of England, when the workers were exploited like the modern day Chinese workers and the environmental costs were huge, my Dad is from Sheffield and talks of how they were constantly black from head to foot from coal dust. The tools however were cheap from carboots and ebay and with a little bit of time and work perform well, however I have had poor results however with vintage chisels as they nearly always have bellied backs, probably from curved stones. The Lidl chisels I have bought took 30/to one minute seconds on a fine diamond stone to get the cutting edge polished on the back (or should I say face). Some, indeed most of the vintage chisels have been impossible to flatten and the only way to remove the wire edge is to lift the chisel slightly. Some years ago I spent hours and hours trying to remove the convexity from vintage chisels and concluded it was not worth the effort, especially as they regularly go on eBay for considerably more than Lidl chisels and often more than Narex.

Sorry for my little evening rant
Paddy


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## lurker (31 Oct 2015)

I have made in czechoslovakia narex chisels that were dirt cheap, I guess they were sold at less than cost to aquire western currency.
I suspect the workers were also exploited at that time.
I agree with Pedder though we all have too much stuff most bought cheap at the expense of wrecking our own manufacturing, exploiting others and damaging the environment.

I'm as guilty as anyone else  :roll:


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## Paddy Roxburgh (31 Oct 2015)

When did you buy your Narex? The Czech Republic and Slovakia split in 1993 and the Czech Reublic have bee in the EU since 2004 and use the Euro as their currency. Are your chisels communist era? If so I'm interested to know what they're like
Paddy


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Oct 2015)

I have some Czechoslovakian Narex I bought in a market for £5. I threw the handles away because they were awful and the machining is very basic, but I've not got around to trying them yet. Apparently the steel was extremely good because being communist all their technology was pretty much available to all industries, so tool manufacturers used data from weapons manufacturers and so on. So I've read, anyway.


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## artie (1 Nov 2015)

I know that this thread started off about Lidl/Aldi chisels but it has wandered somewhat, so if I may comment on the point made earlier about the ethics of sourcing goods from third world countries.

We look with pity at people in "poor" countries, who possibly work long hours for a meagre wage and live without the luxury of a 56 inch plasma/LCD/LED TV.

But have you ever considered that, the person sleeping on the streets of Calcutta who owns nothing or very little, is much richer that the average UK household.

According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.

I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.


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## lurker (1 Nov 2015)

Yep they are that old
To some of us 1993 is yesterday!  

I bought them for rough jobs but then realised they were quite good.
Unlike Phil mine still have the original handles so I don't worry about using a hammer on them


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## lurker (1 Nov 2015)

artie":126029cs said:


> I know that this thread started off about Lidl/Aldi chisels but it has wandered somewhat, so if I may comment on the point made earlier about the ethics of sourcing goods from third world countries.
> 
> We look with pity at people in "poor" countries, who possibly work long hours for a meagre wage and live without the luxury of a 56 inch plasma/LCD/LED TV.
> 
> ...



Misuse of statistics!
The debt is because so many have a mortgage and they are averaged around us all.
I have no debts.


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## Rhossydd (1 Nov 2015)

artie":mc5cpbqw said:


> According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.
> I have no doubt that most people will think that a crazy comparison but who could argue that having nothing is not better than being £54000 in debt.


It's yet another pointless statistic.
One needs to consider assets and the ability to earn, before one starts to talk about how 'well off' people are.


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## DiscoStu (1 Nov 2015)

I think we'll of could be considered a state of mind rather than a measure of financial wealth? In the UK we are only seen as successful if we have the latest car / phone / TV etc. However surely the point of life is to enjoy ourselves? If having a big TV makes you happy then fine. However for other people they might be very happy living in the wilderness with very little worries. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MatthewRedStars (1 Nov 2015)

Rhossydd":gklygtnp said:


> artie":gklygtnp said:
> 
> 
> > According to The Telegraph the average UK household is now £54,000 in debt.
> ...



Quite.

And the level of misunderstanding about how money works is bewildering.

Other than cash (notes and coins) there is no money that exists that isn't debt. Cash makes up about 3% of money.

97% of money is bank created debt, essentially, there is no money that isn't debt. The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER (as a country, obviously doesn't work for the individual).

So everything the government says about reducing debt and the 'country's credit card being full' is nonsense. The only way to create money is by creating debt, and hoping inflation keeps the problem undercontrol (but not so high as to stop people spending).

It's all a trick. There are way better explanations online.

TLDR: paying back debt makes us poorer, taking out debt makes us richer.

PS: the fact that what is good for the country is bad for the individual creates a 'tragedy of the commons' type peril.


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## Penny (1 Nov 2015)

Has anyone considered that the people being exploited are us, the buyers of cheap tools? We moan about the high cost of UK made tools, and we moan about the low cost of Far Eastern made tools.

Would I rather spend £20.00 and help a UK company make even more massive profits, or £2.99 and allow some kid in the Far East to earn just enough to buy enough food to live on? 

If we didn't buy the cheaper Far Eastern tools, would those kids now be starving? Yes, they may be being exploited by our standards, but ask them if they would rather work and eat, or not work and starve.


Besides, I can't afford the major expense of UK made tools.


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## Droogs (1 Nov 2015)

As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.


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## JohnPW (1 Nov 2015)

Droogs":1j866hjc said:


> As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.



I've got a Lidl chisel in front of me, on the handle is "Powerfix Profil+" and "DIN 5139", On the blade is "Abraham Diederichs GmbH & Co.oHG", then their address in Wuppertal in Germany, then various numbers inc manufacturing date I think. Country of manufacture is not on the chisel nor the packaging.

Powerfix is Lidl's own brand of tools, Aldi's is Workzone. I''ve always assumed that Lidl gets the chisels from Abraham Diederichs which is a German company but the chisels are made in the far east, because if they were made in Germany, they would say so. 

But now I'm not so sure. First, the handles are European ash, as the packaging says. 
Second, they look very similar to these German made Rutlands chisels:
http://www.rutlands.co.uk/sp+woodworkin ... hg+1310306
Third, it could just a generl policy not to state country of manufacture when there is no legal requirement, even if they are made in Germany.


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## artie (1 Nov 2015)

MatthewRedStars":2j4y6wq7 said:


> The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER



I'd be very interested, if you could explain how that works.?


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## MatthewRedStars (1 Nov 2015)

artie":u3citqib said:


> MatthewRedStars":u3citqib said:
> 
> 
> > The reason the UK is richer than other countries is BECAUSE the people have debt. I know it seems counter-intuitive but paying off debt makes us POORER, and getting into debt makes us RICHER
> ...



Because money IS debt, it's created by the banking system. Money = debt. So conversely, No debt = no money.

People think that banks take in money from deposits and lend it out as loans. They don't. They haven't for hundreds of years.

What makes a bank a bank is it's ability to create money out of thin air. My mortgage isn't funded by my neighbour's deposits, it was created out of thin air and exists only on the banks balance sheet as an asset (hence how mortgages are bought and sold... sub prime... crash... recession etc).

So ALL money (except physical cash) is debt and exists only inside bank computers. Think about your wages, or any money you have, it will eventually come back to bank created debt (yeah, I know you could own a literal gold mine but i'm talking generally). 

_Every penny (except cash) in the economy is borne from debt._

The banks then gain interest on money they have simply invented from thin air.

If we all paid back our debts, the money supply would cease to exist.

_"It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and money system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning." Henry Ford

"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin. The Bankers own the Earth. Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create deposits, and with the flick of a pen they will create enough deposits to buy it back again. However, take it away from them, and all the fortunes like mine will disappear, and they ought to disappear, for this world would be a happier and better world to live in. But if you wish to remain slaves of the Bankers and pay for the cost of your own slavery, let them continue to create deposits." Sir Josiah Stamp, President of the Bank of England in the 1920s

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Thomas Jefferson_

It's a travesty that this stuff isn't taught in schools. There are various websites, youtube videos that explain it better. It's not a conspiracy theory. But it is hard to believe that HSBC / Lloyds etc can profit from invented money. But that's how it's worked for a very long time.


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## JohnPW (1 Nov 2015)

This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!


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## Monkey Mark (1 Nov 2015)

JohnPW":324fuosg said:


> Droogs":324fuosg said:
> 
> 
> > As I understand it the majority of the tools supplied to Aldi/Lidle are made by the German company Profi +, who make their hand tools in Germany ( ex DDR factories) and have Einhell and a few other German companies make their power tools. They are based in southern western Germany between Baden-Guttenberg and Ramstein near the Luxembourgh border.
> ...


It's a shame Lidl chisels aren't available in a larger set. 

As was mentioned earlier in thus topic, not all of us are able to afford the best equipment, myself being one of them. As it's only a hobby I have to keep costs down. I'll certainly be buying a set when they next come in.


Seems as we are talking about cheap vs quality chisels, has anyone come across VonHaus sets? From some of the other items they make they appear to possibly be rebrand silverline, but they get good reviews. VonHaus 10pc Professional Wood Carving Chisel Set with Honing Guide, Sharpening Stone & Storage Case https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B015Y15U2M/ ... nwb7TFW6MT


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## Droogs (1 Nov 2015)

I stand corrected John . Must have got the names mixed up.


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## artie (1 Nov 2015)

JohnPW":30knixn3 said:


> This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!



I started the thread, and it has served it's purpose.

I don't know if that gives me any rights to content, but I am happy to let it be derailed to the discussion of money, or go to a new one.

OR abandon the subject if it is Taboo


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Nov 2015)

Nah ... the only taboo subjects are the interesting ones ...


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## Andy Kev. (2 Nov 2015)

artie":o4b47i29 said:


> JohnPW":o4b47i29 said:
> 
> 
> > This is really going off topic, if the mods will allow discussion on banks creating money out of nothing (a very interesting subject), then it deserves its own thread!
> ...


Here's another one for you then: the term "leverage" which you sometimes hear bandied about when the conversation turns to banking.

Most people think that if they stick 100 quid in the bank, the bank can lend it to, say a cabinet maker who wants to buy some new chisels. He borrows the Money, buys the chisels and pays back the 100 + interest, so the bank is now sitting on, say, 110 quid. They give 2.50 of that to the depositor as his interest and pocket the other 7.50.

I don't know for a fact but I suspect that most people would be happy with that but that ain't what happens. The bank sees that Muggins has deposited 100 quid. It then lends 100 to a cabinet maker, 100 to a plumber, 100 to the kind of silly person who thinks it's OK to take out a loan to go on holiday etc. So the money has been "levered" 3x all because it's got 100 real quid as a starting point. The difference now is that the depositor still gets his 2.50 interest the bank gets 3 x 7.50 Profit, which it then ships to a tax haven to avoid paying tax. This is all fine if all is going well and the three who borrowed the money can pay it back. However, if the economy has a serious downturn so that the cabinet maker and plumber have no new orders and the holidaying silly person suddenly becomes redundant, then the bank is sitting on loads of debt. The bank should go bust but because that could have terrible knock on effects for the economy it's time for the good old taxpayer to cough up.

Banking _could_ be a clean, straightforward business which does the country some good. As it is, it is pretty disgusting and I don't see how someone who wants to call himself a man can get involved in it.

Meanwhile, a top tip: save and save and then buy one tip top chisel a month from a British manufacturer in the sizes that you actually need and use. That way you'll end up with a cracking set of chisels and a clean conscience.


PS If you think that that the above is bad news, then do a bit of digging and find out how many times money gets "leveraged" in the real economy.


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## artie (2 Nov 2015)

Andy Kev.

Do a search for fractional reserve banking and you will find that the 100 sovs deposited can be lent out many more than three times. Also there is no need for any money to be deposited for them to lend.

I watched a series of videos a while back called the history of money, or something like that.

I wouldn't try to explain cause I am sure I would mess up some detail and get pounced on, but if you have some spare time it's well worth a look.

The biggest thing that got me was the fact that the government borrows money at interest from "International" bankers, when it could print the same amount interest free. One of the biggest cons of all time.


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## Cheshirechappie (2 Nov 2015)

Think we all have to be a wee bit careful discussing 'debt' and international finance.

As far as bankers go, let's make a distinction between the retail banks (or the retail arms of some of the big banking firms), who have no more control over interest rates than you or I. It's not really fair to lump them in with the idiots who drove the big banks to insolvency in the last decade when decrying 'the bankers'. Also worth bearing in mind that it was politicians (with the involvement of civil servants) who decided to use public money to bail out banks; no banker has any control over how public money is spent.

If government borrows money, the value of the money it borrows remains the same; a pound will still buy the same amount of goods or services that pound did before the loan was agreed. If a government prints money, there are now more pounds in circulation, but the same amount of goods or services. Thus, more pounds will be needed to buy the same amount of goods or services after money-printing than before; inflation will result from money printing (as it did with QE in the UK). If taken to extremes, you end up with what happened to Weimar Germany between the world wars, or Argentina and Zimbabwe more recently. QE may be a powerful tool for central banks, but it is one with very great risks.

Finally, as far as you or I are concerned, a debt has to be paid back with interest. Anybody who believes that debt is just an illusion should try convincing their bank or mortgage provider, and see how far they get.

As far as saving up for something goes - I agree wholeheartedly! If nothing else, having to save up means you think carefully about what you really need or want, and appreciate it much more when you can finally afford it. I recognise that in these days of 'have it all now', that's a rather old-fashioned concept, but it actually works rather well, particularly if it avoids longer-term large debts!


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## artie (2 Nov 2015)

Cheshirechappie":n7kc3f63 said:


> If government borrows money, the value of the money it borrows remains the same; a pound will still buy the same amount of goods or services that pound did before the loan was agreed. If a government prints money, there are now more pounds in circulation, but the same amount of goods or services. Thus, more pounds will be needed to buy the same amount of goods or services after money-printing than before;



Surely there will be more pounds in circulation regardless if they are borrowed or printed.




Cheshirechappie":n7kc3f63 said:


> Finally, as far as you or I are concerned, a debt has to be paid back with interest.



Yes but where is the interest to come from. Money is issued as debt and must be repaid + interest but the interest is not issued so in the system there must be losers, it's just not possible for all the money to be repaid + interest.


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## John15 (2 Nov 2015)

What's all this got to do with Lidl Chisels.

John


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## JohnPW (2 Nov 2015)

OK, back to Lidl chisels: I know Lidl in Northern Ireland are doing the chisels on 5 Nov

http://www.lidl-ni.co.uk/en/Offers.htm?id=560
http://www.lidl-ni.co.uk/en/Offers.htm? ... l&id=30168

but does any one know when Lidl in the rest of the UK will have them?


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## Andy Kev. (2 Nov 2015)

Cheshirechappie":2rdawqz1 said:


> Think we all have to be a wee bit careful discussing 'debt' and international finance.
> 
> As far as bankers go, let's make a distinction between the retail banks (or the retail arms of some of the big banking firms), who have no more control over interest rates than you or I. It's not really fair to lump them in with the idiots who drove the big banks to insolvency in the last decade when decrying 'the bankers'. Also worth bearing in mind that it was politicians (with the involvement of civil servants) who decided to use public money to bail out banks; no banker has any control over how public money is spent.
> 
> ...



Apologies: I should have made quite clear that I wasn't referring to the good old Mr Mainwaring types who know their clients and run their branches responsibly but rather to the other sort.

As for saving: it's a good habit to get into. I recently emptied my spare change tin (€600, it's a big tin) and was able to buy some tools that I definitely didn't need but simply wanted.


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## Cheshirechappie (2 Nov 2015)

artie":yhavgqt6 said:


> Cheshirechappie":yhavgqt6 said:
> 
> 
> > If government borrows money, the value of the money it borrows remains the same; a pound will still buy the same amount of goods or services that pound did before the loan was agreed. If a government prints money, there are now more pounds in circulation, but the same amount of goods or services. Thus, more pounds will be needed to buy the same amount of goods or services after money-printing than before;
> ...



To the first one - no, governments can only borrow money that is already in circulation. Governments borrow by issuing 'gilt-edged securities' or 'gilts'. They ask you for a sum of money, and promise to pay interest at a set rate at set times for a given period, after which they give you your sum of money back. These are very popular investments for the likes of pension funds, because they are generally regarded as cast-iron certainties that they'll get the interest and the principal back at the end of the agreed term. If there's a bit of uncertainty, they may still loan, but for a higher rate of interest. If a government defaults, they may refuse to lend at all, in which case the government can't borrow.

To the second - you have to create some wealth. You do this by some activity like growing a field of cabbages and selling them for more than they cost you to grow, or selling your skills to someone willing to pay for them. Generally, they can only pay for your skills if they've generated wealth by some means. The amount of wealth hopefully increases with 'economic activity' over time, and as the amount of wealth grows, it's one of government's responsibilities (usually delegated to central banks) to see that the money supply keeps pace with the growth of wealth, so that a given amount of goods or services has about the same value over time. If they create too much money, you end up with excessive inflation, because there's more money than economic activity. If they don't create enough, the value of basic goods goes down, and people like bakers can't make a living because loaves are worth virtually nothing.

Bearing in mind that it's a woodworking forum, may I respectfully suggest that if anybody wishes to understand economics better, they obtain a basic textbook on the subject?Just be aware that there's a lot of guff floating around the internet and elsewhere about 'debt' at the moment; don't get taken in by it. Debt is 'illusory' in the sene that money is a man-made 'illusion' - but try living modern life without it.

Suffice to say that if Lidl sell a set of chisels at a very low price, it's either because somebody has worked out how to make them for even less and still make a profit (high volume manufacture and very small unit margin, perhaps?) or they're selling them at less than cost to tempt people into their shops in the hope that they'll buy other, more profitable, stuff whilst they're there, or come back later and do so. Either way, if the chisels do what you want, and you're aware of the possible catches and either avoid them or don't care anyway, don't knock it!


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## JonnyW (2 Nov 2015)

Now I know how the world's banking systems works, however I'm still looking forward to getting my hands on a set of Lidl chisels.

Jonny


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## JohnPW (2 Nov 2015)

Go to debt-and-money-t92870.html
for discussion on debt and money.


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## JohnPW (2 Nov 2015)

I've just noticed Northern Ireland and Ireland have the offers at the same time:
http://www.lidl.ie/en/Offers.htm?id=633
http://www.lidl-ni.co.uk/en/Offers.htm?id=560

I think I read somewhere they have their offers 2 weeks ahead of Great Britain?


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## artie (2 Nov 2015)

JohnPW":2gtxscab said:


> I think I read somewhere they have their offers 2 weeks ahead of Great Britain?



often but not always.


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