# tool sharpening ...help please



## Keithie (30 Nov 2016)

Just returned to woodturning as a 'new' hobby after many years of separation from it (used to have a coronet cl3) and have bought a shop display Record DML320 with the extension bed for £550 (its not a Powermatic, but then they are almost £3k) and 5 Robert Sorby gouges (roughing, 3/8 spindle, 3/8 bowl, 1/8 parting and 3/8 parting). I've also got an axminster sk100 chuck and a couple of jaws. Enough to turn all the projects on my list (mini Christmas trees up to circular topped wooden stools)

I have forgotten pretty much everything I knew (cant even find the centres on pre-cut pieces very well!) and I never knew how or how often to sharpen tools ..I tended to avoid it till I couldnt turn anything and then let a grinding wheel eat a few inches of the tool before it was even close to usuable.

So I think I need to learn how to sharpen tools well, but dont fancy spending £300++ on a deluxe sharpening kit.

Please could experienced and novice turners let me know what you choose to do (what kit, how often etc) ...does anyone sharpen by eye/without support/without an angle gauge on a aluminium oxide wheel or is that just silly?

thanks in advance


----------



## Dalboy (30 Nov 2016)

If you have a few woodworking skills then have a go at making your own sharpening guides. Have a look at THIS ONE I made the little adjustable table and it helped get the angles when sharpening.


----------



## stewart (30 Nov 2016)

What Dalboy said.....although I have Sorby proedge bought second-hand, though that was still a little over £200. Sharpening should be little and often, grinding should be a once only job to get the shape you want.


----------



## Keithie (30 Nov 2016)

Thanks ...not sure if my skills are up to that, but the implications seem clear : support and angle control are necessary 

I understand the little & often (and grind vs sharpen) ideas ... but quantifying the 'often' is a bit hazy ... guess it depends on the wood as well as how long tool is used. Once every 30mins for oak and less often for beech/ash and less again for softwood? Or do you just get a sense of when the tool is losing its edge by experience ?


----------



## nev (30 Nov 2016)

Look at JPT's setup midway down this page
sharpening-turning-tools-options-for-the-beginner-t29556.html

A 6 or 8 inch grinder with a white wheel (record), a few suitably shaped bits of wood and a couple of bolts will create your rest (as in Keith Rowley woodturning, a foundation course ) and away you go.


----------



## Keithie (30 Nov 2016)

thanks .. I've got an old 1/2hp milbro grinder/polisher which I can bolt to a base and add the Rowley rest (I've got the excellent Rowley book ...and the Richard Raffan). My alu oxide 6" wheel is a white one and I've got a diamond dressing tool ...so that sounds like the lowest cost way forward ...then I just need to decide between a cbn wheel upgrade (and my existing waterstones to finish) or going for the pro edge. price vs convenience.
Having read a lot more over the last hour or so, I cant find anyone who says anything bad (that would be relevant to my low skill level) about the SorbyProEdge ...apart from price of course. Yandles is only an hour away from me so maybe they'll have a sale one day ....


----------



## Robbo3 (30 Nov 2016)

Get yourself a copy of the beginners bible - Woodturning:-A-Foundation-Course by Keith Rowley
Edit : oops, you've already got it.

The problem tools are bowl & spindle gouges with the sides ground (fingernail). Most other tools can be done using a flat platform or resting on your fingers with some form of support underneath (often the tiny supplied tool rest).

As to how often, it's a judgement call. With really hard or abrasive timbers you may only get one or two cuts before having to return to the grinder.

Another possibility is using carbide tipped tools which only need an occasional dressing with a diamond stone
Glen Teagle - http://www.ukwoodcraftandcarbidechisels.co.uk/


----------



## Sawyer (30 Nov 2016)

Dalboy":1kc1ar77 said:


> If you have a few woodworking skills then have a go at making your own sharpening guides. Have a look at THIS ONE I made the little adjustable table and it helped get the angles when sharpening.


 
Not wanting to spend shed loads of money, I made the Brian Clifford jig. The tilting rest is good and still in use. The gouge attachment (on the left of the picture) is similar to various commercially made jigs, which I'd wondered about buying. I'm glad I saved my money, because I got fed up with it very quickly and changed to freehand sharpening on the tilting rest, which I set to the angle of the gouge. I have sharper tools as result, because once the technique is mastered, a spindle or bowl gouge can be honed up with the merest touch on the wheel, in about 30 seconds. As there is no messing about with jigs, the process is easy enough to repeat every few minutes.

I use a 6'' dry grinder with an Axminster pink grinding wheel. http://www.axminster.co.uk/pink-grinding-wheels-ax19566


----------



## Jacob (30 Nov 2016)

Simplest and cheapest sharpening set up would be a sanding disc on the outboard end - just stuck to a ply disc, or a bought one with velcro etc.
A simple tool rest (horizontal wooden batten across fixed somehow, close to centre line of disc) and you can do it all by eye it's not difficult. 
Jigs aren't necessary and in the end it's quicker and easier without them. The bevels on chisels are a lot easier to shape than the actual turning of bowls, spindles, knobs and stuff, so if you can do one you can do the other.

PS don't bother with "the problem tools" you don't need them. The old books are best; Percy Blandford "Woodturning" etc. They kept it simple.

PPS for finding centres use an ordinary marking gauge - guess the middle and work it from positions around the circumference. The arcs will produce a little polygon (or a cross if you hit dead centre first time). Then you can guess the middle , or gauge again set closer to the centre.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (30 Nov 2016)

Except that when you're paying £50 a tool and a jig can easily make it last two or three times longer it makes sense to use a jig.


----------



## Jacob (30 Nov 2016)

phil.p":1iabnmh5 said:


> Except that when you're paying £50 a tool and a jig can easily make it last two or three times longer it makes sense to use a jig.


Opposite IMHO! You can usually remove a lot less material to get a good edge, without a jig, once you've got the knack, as long as you avoid the "problem" tools.


----------



## nev (30 Nov 2016)

Gentlemen, before it deteriorates into a jig/ no jig money/ no money my dads bigger than your dad sharpening thread please stop.


----------



## woodfarmer (30 Nov 2016)

You might want to invest in something like a devil stone for truing and keeping your grinding wheel sharp. If it isn't it will rub more and tend to overheat the tools as well as not giving a clean cutting edge.
Grind lightly and only for a short time. simple wipe of the grindstone then look at the edge.
A simple jig will help you grind at the same angle more consistently, thus saving valuable tool steel. But have separate jigs that are permanently set to their angles. simple wooden ramps at various angles will do. Even if you are a few degrees off it will only really matter the first time you use it.

When cutting gets difficult, you start losing true round of the work piece or make more dust are all signs the tool need sharpening. Little and often is the rule, If it gets too hot to touch, stop grinding and let it air cool.


----------



## Keithie (1 Dec 2016)

Thanks again everyone who replied. I guess my past sharpening style of simply holding (without any support) my tool tip on the sharpening wheel at what looked about the right angle is a bit lame. I shall try to make myself a simple adjustable angle support ...doesnt look too far outside my ability.

cheers
Keith


----------



## Jacob (1 Dec 2016)

Keithie":3dib2loa said:


> I guess my past sharpening style of simply holding (without any support) my tool tip on the sharpening wheel at what looked about the right angle is a bit lame. ...


Not really. You get better at it very quickly!
Helps if there's a tool rest at least, but doesn't need to be adjustable - you adjust the angle of the tool instead, which saves a lot of fiddling about..


----------



## lurker (1 Dec 2016)

When i started I (badly) copied the jigs Chaz made I've never needed anything else.
Can someone link them?

Good point about dressing the wheel.........a major "failing" many do not understand.
You are not "flattening" the face you are exposing fresh abrasive and removing contaminates

I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
Little and often.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (1 Dec 2016)

I picked up at a car boot a monster devil stone for 50p - no one knew what it was.


----------



## Jacob (1 Dec 2016)

lurker":iix3s1qh said:


> ....
> I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
> Little and often.


Yes to little and often, which makes disc on out-board end a very handy solution.


----------



## CHJ (1 Dec 2016)

lurker":rg7krxa7 said:


> .....I know two "names" in the turning world and they grind very frequently, mid job in many cases.
> Little and often.


The more you turn the more this becomes the norm, the more you do it the more you may migrate to hand sharpening and still maintain the bevel angles you are gradually becoming familiar with to the point you naturally pick one gouge over another off the rack.

But unless you are turning all day every day and earning a living I personally think time is better spent turning the wood than practicing how to sharpen by hand alone.

A simple pivot jig in the pattern of the Tormek/Sorby clone that you can set the tool protrusion up on accurately every time with little fuss is in my experience still the simplest way to achieve minimum steel removal and consistent bevel form or adjustment and for me anyway even after ten years plus spinning odd bits of wood is the method I rely on for touching up of spindle and bowl gouge edges, and as mentioned by *Lurker* on some tasks this can be as frequent as every surface completion or at times every one or two passes. 

I find nine times out of ten poor surface finish or tool bounce occurrences means I am being lazy and not bothering to re-sharpen. 
It's a lesson I personally seem to need to relearn on a regular basis, as is often said "if you think it needs re-sharpening then you should have done so several cuts ago"



lurker":rg7krxa7 said:


> When i started I (badly) copied the jigs Chaz made I've never needed anything else.
> Can someone link them?


 Under projects
If you follow the various links in the associated threads most of the saga of my learning curve regarding sharpening is exposed.
All that has really come out of it is that time and practice results in the bulk of the fiddling about disappears and you end up with a routine that becomes second nature and you tackle each tool in the quickest and simplest way for you and get on with the turning.


----------



## woodpig (1 Dec 2016)

For around £100 this is hard to beat.

http://www.robert-sorby.co.uk/w447-delu ... ing-system


----------



## Phil Pascoe (1 Dec 2016)

+1 they're what our club uses.


----------



## Keithie (10 Dec 2016)

Thought I'd give an update for what I'm doing on this now, which seems to work well enough (so far).

1. I've read the intellectual arguments about burrs on tools and grinding towards the tool vs away, burr removal, 'natural burr' and 'controlled' burr and it seems to me that, at least for cutting rather than scraping tools, burr removal is more consistent and easier (for me) despite me happening to have burnishing tools. So I hone cutters. Not using tools in scraping mode yet, so that may be different.

2. I grind with the wheel running towards the tool, white alu oxide 6" wheel, re-dressing wheel only twice in 10 days so far.

3. I grind freehand, no rest, but I have very good lighting and wear a loupe, I make sure I get the angle v close to what it already is and just give a quick roll from one side to the other. I then inspect and roll the other way ifthere are facets. I dont have fingernail grinds on my tools so I dont need to 'loop' the rotation. This is easy, just needs care...takes less than a minute.

4. After grind I hone by a similar rotation movement, but back and forth a few times while circling the tool on an oilstone in a puddle of 3 in 1 oil. I've got some Liberon honing oil coming. I do this wearing a loupe in good light so Iknow the angle is close enough..then inspect. It takes maybe 20-30 seconds.

edit : after each hone I put a tiny smear of renwax (mc wax) on edges and bevel as a flow agent

5. Back to turning till edge goes, then hone again. I re-hone rather than grind each time. Usually 2-3 hones between grinds.

This isnt at all tricky, just needs care, good lighting and visual enhancement. Also saves £300 ++ on an SPE and the lower frequency of grind may, hopefully, extend life of tools.

The local pro I know says he just uses rougher than 100 grade grit on his floor mounted linisher with the belt running away from the tool which gives him a burr to cut with and he doesnt hone afaik. He has way more experience than me though! 

I'm definitely not saying my way is 'right' or 'better' than anyone elses (and I could easily accept that its actually stupid or wrong for reasons I dont yet understand), just that it seems to work so far for me and is almost no incremental cost given the equip I already have.

Also, I'm only turning pine, sycamore and ash for far, mostly pine. So things may change when I let myself use more expensive / dense woods!


----------



## lurker (10 Dec 2016)

Seems reasonable
With experience at no. 5 you will learn to hone before the edge goes.

Might be me, but I find pine and the like more difficult to turn than harder woods.


----------



## woodpig (10 Dec 2016)

Hand held diamond hones have proved popular at my WT club. I was a bit sceptical at first but it has worked very well on my spindle gouge. Only takes a couple of passes to get the edge keen again.


----------



## Keithie (11 Dec 2016)

I dont really know how difficult pine is, but it seems to be an excellent wood to train on. 

Apart from the almost zero cost, it seems so brittle that I'm learning how thin discs can be cut (about 2mm with the wood I have) before they decide to just fall off while spinning (without any extra provocation) and how cutting even slightly too quickly can cause tiny lumps to fall out. 

Been great so far for developing tool control and yesterday I even managed to make one little tree (1" height) without any tiny grains/bits falling off!


----------



## Phil Pascoe (11 Dec 2016)

woodpig":3r2u1py3 said:


> Hand held diamond hones have proved popular at my WT club. I was a bit sceptical at first but it has worked very well on my spindle gouge. Only takes a couple of passes to get the edge keen again.



Curious. At mine no one ever hones with anything. :? :lol:


----------



## nickjan (13 Dec 2016)

You have already received a score of replies and as many (quality) suggestions. As one novice to another, let me share a few comments.

There is a large number of YouTube videos on sharpening. A couple of them I would recommend are:
* Brendan Stamp, Sharpening woodturning tools freehand,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shXPHpquMzk
* Lyle Jamieson, Lyle on sharpening lathe tools, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zUph9zEjck&t=7s
* Mike Waldt, Tool sharpening, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQZm3kEOIW4

While I commensurate with your reluctance to spend lots of money on grinders and jigs, the importance of sharpening can hardly be underestimated in woodturning. For that reason I invested in a sharpening system more expensive than my (second-hand) lathe: the Tormek T8 system. Although you may not care to consider this system now, exploring its features and rationale can in itself be instructive. See, e.g., http://tormek.com/en/machines/t8/index.php


----------



## Jacob (13 Dec 2016)

nickjan":1ng70iqr said:


> ... the importance of sharpening can hardly be underestimated in woodturning. For that reason I invested in a sharpening system more expensive than my (second-hand) lathe: ....]


It doesn't follow. A sanding disc on your outboard end is a very efficient and very cheap sharpening set up. It's also extremely convenient and well placed for frequent touching up.


----------



## Lons (13 Dec 2016)

Jacob":11ibl8kh said:


> lurker":11ibl8kh said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...


Not everyone has a lathe with an outboard facility Jacob, neither of my 2 lathes have and without that it's not practical.

I've got a Tormek T7, a couple of double ended grinders with mixed wheels, countless oil, water and diamond stones and last year bought a s/h pro-edge. Though I'm pretty reasonable through years of practice with all the equipment, the Pro-edge is my go to when I'm turning. Very quick easy repeatable sharpening are my reasons, I want to spend my time turning not sharpening and all I'm doing is touching up the edge without getting those "faceted" tool faces I see so often.

As you're someone who says he struggles, my advice is to save up and buy one, the learning curve is very small. Is there a club anywhere near you where you can try out different methods?

Bob


----------



## Keithie (13 Dec 2016)

Thanks again for the help.

I definitely agree that the volume and quality of advice I've received from folk here (who arent trying to sell me things) and from suppliers (who have a choice of products) is really excellent.

Taking my reading and advice received together it seemsto me that a foot treadle lathe with a sharpened large screwdriver, some stone from the ground in your local area, an axe and a fallen tree is all that is needed at one end of spec. Equally buying prepared wood, a premium lathe & other tools and a premium sharpening system will almost certainly make things easier...but cost more.

I think the single (almost) consensus point that I've seen on here is that most folk use a rest when sharpening tools. Frank Underwood & Percy Blandford (I have the 1976 & 1981 versions of their books respectively) make no mention if this that I can find and indeed an intro training course I did at Axminster many years ago advocated sharpening without a rest. Keith Rowley's book obviously advocates a rest and has a simple design.

There seems to me to be no absolute 'right' or 'wrong' approach so long as the tool is sharpened in a way that means it can perform its task.

I probably (hopefully) will have a 40+ year turning hobby, so no doubt I'll try almost every current and future method in time! The first addition I'll make to my sharpening repertoire will be a rest .. I cant think if any coherent reasons why I shouldnt (just need to get an appropriate wing nut!)

Many thanks again to everyone for the help & advice so far.
cheers
Keith


----------



## Jacob (13 Dec 2016)

Keithie":38gx1a4j said:


> ...
> I think the single (almost) consensus point that I've seen on here is that most folk use a rest when sharpening tools.....


It is possible without but much easier with!
A lot of these basics don't get mentioned much in the old books, (particularly sharpening) probably because they are taken for granted - just a normal part of the working environment. 
Once these simple processes are forgotten then along come the gadget merchants. :roll: Their first objectives being to persuade people that these things are difficult and that help must be bought.


----------



## selectortone (13 Dec 2016)

There is a recent thread about sharpening that has some useful info:

more-sharpening-woes-t98391.html


----------



## Keithie (13 Dec 2016)

Thanks ...the spe or cbn wheel do seem to be a good, but premium, way of progressing. 

There's a lot to be learned from the old ways as well though.....Underwood has 16 pages on sharpening (with discussion of slip stones, burrs, honing etc as well as the basics) and Blandford's more general book gives emphasis to sandstone over engineer wheels. I quite like the idea of learning the oldways (eg beads with a skew chisel rather than just buying a beading tool) first then I may try to cadge a sneaky go on other folks equipment in time as well before deciding whether to buy.


----------



## Keithie (27 Dec 2016)

So I think I can get my tools quite sharp (enough to cut paper) with my alu oxide wheel and oilstone ...but I suspect I'm still going wrong with the 'little and often' bit ...mostly the 'often' I'm now thinking.

So, yet another sharpening question....how often is often?

I realise it depends on lots of things ....but typically are folk re-sharpening their bowl/spindle gouges every 5 minutes (or less) of cutting or not so much.I've been leaving it for 15 mins or so...sometimes more.

Having thought about this in a different way ..if the peripheral speed of the piece on the lathe is about 18mph then in 5 minutes (1/12 of an hour) the tool will have cut for 1.5miles ! ...if thats right then it seems quite a long way to have cut through wood ...and if I'm leaving it for 15mins then even though a tool may bewell sharpened, almost 5 miles of cutting is going to take an edge off!

I have no idea if this is a sensible way to think about it ...but really all I'm asking is how often is often (in terms of actually cutting time).

thanks again...Keith


----------



## CHJ (27 Dec 2016)

Stop analysing it, there is no definitive answer, every piece of wood you pick up will behave differently and have different cutting characteristics dependant upon how you are cutting with or across the grain, no one other than yourself can get a feel for how you are presenting the tool, how acute the cutting edge is or if you are rubbing the bevel to its best performance, etc. etc.

Just stop fretting about the tools and cut some wood, if the tool is not slicing through the wood without you having to press it into the wood then it is not sharp enough, the only force you should need is to hold it against the rest and control its progress along the line of the cut, if you have to push it's not sharp enough.

Practise cutting the wood, the tool needs will come as a result of that experience, until you have got some mastery of the wood handling then you won't be able to refine your tool preparation.

Cutting time is not the criteria, how the tool feels in the cut and how easily it progresses through the wood is the criteria to tell you if it would perform better if you sharpened it.
Stop fussing about touching up the edge between sharpening's on the wheel, chances are that as someone new to turning you are more likely to form micro bevels on the tool that will either present as blunt or cause the tool to dive into the wood as they prevent proper bevel contact, you may even be doing this with your oilstone, just because the edge is sharp does not mean it's the correct profile for bevel rubbing gouge use.

After ten plus years of turning I doubt there at a couple of jobs a year where I resort to touching a tool edge other than on the grinder.


----------



## Keithie (27 Dec 2016)

understood (& self evidently correct!) ... more time turning & less time with the dumbass questions  
Back from the inlaws tomorrow so I'll have access to my lathe again!


----------



## Lons (28 Dec 2016)

Keithie":29p2zg3i said:


> understood (& self evidently correct!) ... more time turning & less time with the dumbass questions
> Back from the inlaws tomorrow so I'll have access to my lathe again!


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## duncanh (29 Dec 2016)

Like Chas says, stop over thinking it. It's not rocket science and the best thing you can do is practice the turning. Forget the oilstone for sharpening - the tools should be plenty sharp enough straight from the grinding wheel.
Probably the best thing you could do is find another turner nearby who can take you through the basics, either a professional course, another amateur who has plenty of time and knows what they're doing or go to a turning club


----------



## Keithie (29 Dec 2016)

lol...well, I'm happy to accept you're right based on experience etc ...but I like grinding with my white wheel and oilstone honing. 

Having been in Wales for the last week I've now also picked up some nice bits of slate ...not yellowstone, but some purplish blue coping stone slate and a bluish green hearthstone piece. The hearthstone seems quite a bit finer. Cetrainly for flat edged blades they seem great ...possibly around 10k grit ...maybe that's more fine than I need for a roughing gouge ? 

I also took the dog for a walk today through a tiny quarried area on the way up to an old hill fort and picked up an intereting piece of some sort of gritty ironstone. Cuts down easily on the grinder so I might try to square it up and use that as an intermediate grade 

I did have a close look (x20 optics) at the edges on the spindle and roughing gouges and it's true that there are definitely sections of uneven bevelling ...but they cut wood nicely enough. 

Made my first handle today in cherry (after some practice in horrid green knotty cedar to get a shape that suited my fat hands) for the long hole auger... came out better than expected ...currently soaking up some tung oil .. going to try and make a ferrule from an old copper water tank (probably not all of it!) for the fun of it 

Please dont get me wrong ... It's not that I'm disregarding the given advice ...I defintely respect it and recognise its value (ie for sharpening, spe / wheels & jigs/rests are more efficient, more accurate, and give more consistenty repeatable edges)... but I enjoy trying to do stuff a primitive way .. they didnt have sorby pro edge or cbn wheels 100 years ago ...they had giant lumps of stone mounted on oversize pieces of cast iron ...at least they did in parts of Wales like Ceredigion!

When I tire of stones and wheels I'll buy an SPE of course (unless tech moves on again) ...but not till the fun of using found materials has passed 

Oh ... rehoning every 2 and 3 mins of cutting now for me (in cherry and in green red cedar) ...about every 5-10 mins of elapsed time at the lathe ...definitely depends on the wood. 

Also, I'm seeing the pro woodturner/worker in our village (who may be on here for all I know!) in the New Year (their Christmas order book from Harrogate & Glasgow was a bit burdensome..working till 3 & 4am it seems!) ...so that might be a good chance to learn even more!

cheers
Keithie


----------



## Phil Pascoe (29 Dec 2016)

I know possibly sixty turners. The vast majority never hone anything, and after long discussions with many of them in fact probably only two or three hone anything at all and that is a skew once in a blue moon.


----------



## Keithie (30 Dec 2016)

From what I've read online as well as what is here, cutting tools arent usually honed, scraper tools are (sometimes). The chap in our village says he leaves the burr on (ie doesnt hone or strop). Its the burr that does the cutting, as I understand it.

Maybe what you're telling me is that, for woodturning, keeping & using the burr obtained from even quite a rough grit grinder/linisher is enough. Other woodcraft areas might need different tool sharpening / edge maintenace techniques.

So what I'm doing is unnecessary for woodturning. But it seems to work (so far, even though the bevel is by no means perfect) and it makes me happy ...which is all good! Obviously I've tried 'fresh off the grinder' each time vs repeated honing...with the honing I seem to have a sharper tool and think, perhaps wrongly, that I remove less metal than regrinding each time without any honing.

Ultimately I guess I'll find the practical limitation of honing as I get better ... it'll probably then become obvious why it's better not to do it ...but not got to that point yet!


----------



## CHJ (30 Dec 2016)

phil.p":23djvofs said:


> I know possibly sixty turners. The vast majority never hone anything, and after long discussions with many of them in fact probably only two or three hone anything at all and that is a skew once in a blue moon.



I've only ever seen one honing an edge and that was Mark Hancock finessing a skew with a fine diamond card when slicing his sycamore? pieces.
This being much like the eastern European turners do with their slip stones when producing razor edges to their self made carbon steel tools they use on Linden wood pieces.

I have done the same in the past with a diamond card (it's easier on a flat diamond plate) on a skew but so rarely do I do spindle work with wood conducive to this level of finesse I get on better with a continental spindle and detailed spindle gouge, which should I feel the need or have a wood compliant enough not to wreck such a refined edge I now have the luxury of Trizact Abrasives to use with them and completely avoid micro bevel issues.


----------



## Keithie (30 Dec 2016)

aha ! ... so if I'm honing, even perfectly (which I'm not) to a very sharp edge and then using this to hack through green, knotty, western red cedar .. I may as well have been just doing it with a quick 80grit grind for all the finesse I'll produce with my turning skill level on a big chunk of less than elite wood! 

#penny finally drops 

cheers


----------



## Phil Pascoe (30 Dec 2016)

Yes. Not so much that it's wrong, but that it's pointless. As Chas says, there is more reason to hone carbon steel tools, and I suspect most of the honing done on them is a quickie to save stopping for a regrind rather than a need for a super sharp tool.


----------



## kevinlightfoot (30 Dec 2016)

I have been watching this thread with great interest ,it is very surprising to me that people are going down the route of buying different grinder ,sones wheels etc which will all be very expensive.In 1983 I began turning wood to make a living I bought a good quality grinder8" diameter wheels one coats and one fine wheel both of them grey wheels as standard.So 30 years or more Bever changed the wheels just dressed regularly with a diamond tipped dresser very lightly.My tools are plenty sharp enough for all types of turning and I never put them near ant kind of stone .As has been said practise turning wood use the standard grinders rest when sharpening flat section tools and become proficient at sharpening gouges freehand.Anyone can spend money looking for the easy way but it's like learning to ride a bike you fall off now and again but you can't keep changing the wheels till you can ride it.Sorry but that's my two pennorth.


----------



## bobajobob (30 Dec 2016)

I might have posted some c..p but this is diarrhea.


----------



## selectortone (30 Dec 2016)

Sharpening is boring. It's the turning that's the fun. Having a bench grinder at my elbow and a setup that puts a good, repeatable sharp edge on my tools quickly and with the minimum diversion is the important thing for me. 

Unless it's a piece that's particularly hard on the tools, I use the grinder (CBN wheel) before I start and then when I'm doing a final cut that needs the tool at its very sharpest. In between I keep the edges fresh with a diamond card and have a set of these which are very handy and look like they are going to last forever. This is what my tutor does, and also what they do during demos at the club. If it works for those guys it'll do for me.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (30 Dec 2016)

This is what my tutor does, and also what they do during demos at the club. If it works for those guys it'll do for me.
:lol: :lol: Which is why I do the opposite - I've never seen a pro turner or demonstrator use one. Each to their own.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (30 Dec 2016)

bobajobob":3a1fgu0o said:


> I might have posted some c..p but this is diarrhea.


Happy New Year to you, too.


----------



## kevinlightfoot (30 Dec 2016)

Just checking ,did you mean to say that my post was diarrhoea or the thread in general?


----------



## selectortone (30 Dec 2016)

phil.p":1kodvsgy said:


> This is what my tutor does, and also what they do during demos at the club. If it works for those guys it'll do for me.
> :lol: :lol: Which is why I do the opposite - I've never seen a pro turner or demonstrator use one. Each to their own.



:lol:


----------



## bobajobob (30 Dec 2016)

Sorry Kevin. Definitely not you. 
Just disappointed that your sensible summary did not put an end to this.

HNY Phil. No offence intended to you either.


----------



## kevinlightfoot (30 Dec 2016)

Thanks boba job I was feeling the same that's why I posted ,no offence taken and Happy New Year!


----------



## Keithie (30 Dec 2016)

In the interest of sport I could refer you to pages 87 & 88 of Frank Underwood's 1981 'Beginner's guide to Woodturning' which discusses the sharpening and honing of faceplate (bowl) gouges (the objective of honing being to correct the nature of the burr created by the grinding wheel) using an oilstone...the honing approach being recommended for sycamore & beech etc while the 'straight from the grinder' for rougher wood (pretty much as Chas highlighted). It suggests that more advanced turners might typically take a slipstoneto the gouge rather than use an oilstone. But that was 35 years ago.

I'd like to say thank you to everyone on this thread and hope it hasnt caused too many gut problems !

The amount and quality of advice has been excellent and I reckon I have as good an understanding of the theory and practical experiences of seasoned turners as any newcomer could possibly hope for !

Many thanks again

Keith


----------



## Robbo3 (31 Dec 2016)

Over the years I've seen quite a number of professional turners honing their HSS tools. In some cases it may be to save transporting a grinder but they still do it.

It's only a time saver on hollow ground tools & is normally done to obtain a really sharp edge for the final finishing cut. If you try it on flat ground tools, you'll be there all day as you have to remove material from the whole face of the tool rather than just the heel & the cutting edge.


----------

