# Just got a lathe. Now what do I need



## buzzby (8 Dec 2015)

Hi everyone,

I been looking for a while and finally saw a Sherline 4410 on ebay that i have won. It is just the lathe with only a 3 jaw chuck and the tool rest that comes with the lathe. What would you all list as the minimum extra things i need to get turning.
Will be turning brass mainly with some Aluminum for practice and steel for making screws

To start with i will just be doing simple projects as i learn metal turning (have been a wood turner for a number of years)

Things i know i want but have no idea where to get from
Quick change tool post 
cutters (i am used to HSS but wondering if carbide might be the way to go to get started). I know brass needs different angles that others
Drill chuck tail stock

Drills
oil / cutting fluid?
mark out fluid

what else am i missing?

I have learned the hard way not to buy cheap and buy twice but also want to get value for money.

My long term aim is to get a mill as well and start gear and clock making. I have already made a couple of clocks out of wooden gears and want to give brass a try.

Thanks


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## CHJ (8 Dec 2015)

> *Just got a lathe. Now what do I need*



You need to start turning with what you have got.

*QCT*, will save a few minutes setup when changing tools, will cost money, better spent on raw materials. A few strips of packing shims from scrap sheet material matched to and kept with each tool is quick to setup. 
*Carbide tooling*, selection care needed to acquire specification suitable for small lathe, they like heavy load in the main. HSS better and sharper for Brass and Ali. work.
*Marking out fluid*, very little use for lathe work, more associated with surface plate and marking out for milling, drilling and shaping flat stock.
*Cutting fluid* Kerosene is a good coolant for brass and Ali, applied by brush, perhaps add a drop of thin oil.

Suggest you only start looking for enhancement goodies when you get to a job you cannot possibly do with what you have to hand.

Go to the One Stop reference links at the top of this forum section for suppliers and information.


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## MusicMan (9 Dec 2015)

+1 for forgetting about QC tool post. On a small lathe they seriously lack rigidity. I agree with Chas too on HSS rather than carbide. The latter is really designed for heavy cuts on big machines and actually cannot be made as sharp as HSS. You will need a small grinder to form the tools and you need to read up about tool angles. It is straightforward and the angles are not too critical, and there are plenty of web resources to guide you.

Yes, start with what you have and first of all be sure you can set the cutting point closely on the lathe centre. Read up about the ruler trick and cutting speeds. The small book by Harold Hall is a great way to start, and it gives progressive but useful projects to make. 

You can get pretty much everything on eBay and/or through Chronos and RDG Tools for a start.

Keith


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## AES (9 Dec 2015)

+ another 1 for what "they" (CHJ and MusicMan) said.

A QCTP is certainly nice to have, and very convenient if you're doing a lot of work which needs several different tools to be used on the same work piece. But coupled with the use of HSS rather than carbide (see below), most probably the Eccentric Engineering angled tool holder (see the sticky at top of this section) is a better bet. It's very easy to adjust for tool/centre height, cuts very well, and uses HSS. Highly recommended for you for later on - usual disclaimers.

The problem with carbide is just as both the others said - carbide needs heavy/deep cuts to work well, and as you'll be working with brass and ali mainly, you'll find heavy cuts won't produce much of a finish, AND it's doubtful if any of the small lathes are stiff enough to handle carbide tools comfortably anyway.

The Harold Hall book you mention is a good one, as is/are either/both of the books "The Amateur's Lathe" by L.H. Sparey and "Using the small lathe" by L.C. Mason. Both books are pretty old but very well worth having. Amazon has them both, you'll learn a lot and they're not expensive.

Add a bench grinder as MusicMan suggested and practice a bit with grinding HSS tools and just start off learning to turn with what you've got right now. You'll be well away.

Also as mentioned above, turning ali is best done with paraffin as a lubricant (just use a brush to dribble it on a bit at a time) or WD 40 will do at a pinch. According to all the experts, brass should be turned dry. I've found that a dribble of paraffin (or WD 40) also helps with brass.

But whatever you use (or if you turn dry) don't be surprised when the work screams at you when turning brass. It just does that, how loudly it screams depending mainly on the grade of brass. And instead of nice curls of swarf like you get when turning ali or steel, you'll get tiny shards of brass splinters going all over the place too.

If, like me, you sit at the lathe when turning, then make sure you have a jacket or overall which buttons right up to the neck when turning brass. Otherwise you find the bedclothes covered in tiny shards of brass chips when you get into bed. I will NOT tell you what SWMBO's reactions were the first (and last) time that happened to me!

Enjoy your lathe work - it's great fun and a very useful adjunct to whatever woodworking or machine repair/improvement activities you're into.

HTH
AES


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## mikec (10 Dec 2015)

I assume you have a micrometer and /or Vernier for measuring. Carbide tooling is not really suitable for such small lathes, learning how to sharpen HSS tools will really pay dividends.
A set of small drills will be useful, it really depends on what you want to make.
Taps and dies of appropriate sizes and standards will also be useful. Early projects could include tailstock holders for dies and a spring loaded tap holder to ensure correct angles.
The best way to learn is to try some basic operations and see what happens with the different materials.
Delrin or acetal may be a cost effective material to try various techniques.
As has been mentioned a woodturners smock is a good idea when turning brass, its amazing how far some of the chips can fly.
A good light is high on my list, depends on your workshop.
The Workshop Practice series is a very good reference, apart from the Harold Hall book there are others covering all sorts of lathe related topics.

I have a Real Bull mini lathe and a much loved Unimat SL with lots of additions which is undergoing a major refit, I bought it new in 1971.

Happy turning

mikec


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## buzzby (10 Dec 2015)

So carbide idea is out, thanks.

Where in the sticky is the Eccentric Engineering angled tool holder info? I might be blind or just cannot find it on the phone.

With the hss sharpening is this all done on a grinder? What I have seen on web is people just using various flat stones.

Will hold back on going nuts and get some metal instead.

I couldn't find a zero morse taper drill chuck, any idea where I can get one?

Thanks


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## Wildman (10 Dec 2015)

a grinder would help
Centre drills
faceplate
steadies, fixed and running
calipers 
steel rule
fixed and running centers, drive dogs.
drills
parting tool
threading tools
boring head, could go on endlessly it makes sense to use it and see what you need as you go.


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## CHJ (10 Dec 2015)

If you have been a wood turner for a number of years you just use your white oxide grinding wheel to shape and sharpen the HSS cutting tools as you would your gouges.


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## AES (10 Dec 2015)

Sorry, I thought I put Eccentric Engineering into the sticky at the top of this general Metalworking section, but it looks like I forgot. Here's the link:

http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/

As you'll see it's an Australian firm but they have a rep in UK (see their website). The tool is called the Diamond Tool holder and is highly recommended - usual disclaimers.

Also one of the members here made their own and it looked very good. I'm sure a search of this section should find it.

The stuff that others have mentioned are also important but I suggest you start slowly. Apart from measuring gear (mic, vernier caliper) about the only thing you'll soon need is a tailstock drill chuck, some drills and some centre drills (often called Slocombes). Then taps & dies. Arc Eurotrade (definitely in the sticky) have all the above, and also a range of chucks and adaptors with various Morse Tapers. Again usual disclaimers - I'm just a satisfied Arc customer.

HTH

AES


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## CHJ (10 Dec 2015)

AES":37k2vj9s said:


> I thought I put Eccentric Engineering into the sticky at the top of this general Metalworking section, but it looks like I forgot. ...


It is in there.


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## chaoticbob (11 Dec 2015)

buzzby":3if8fa4b said:


> So carbide idea is out, thanks.
> 
> I couldn't find a zero morse taper drill chuck, any idea where I can get one?
> 
> Thanks



Millhill Supplies in Essex is the European distributor for Sherline, I expect they will be able to sort you out for bits and pieces specific to your lathe (at a price!).

Whilst I agree with earlier comments about carbide insert tooling in general needing to be driven (much) harder than your lathe will allow, the tips sold specifically for aluminium are sharper and have more top rake than the 'normal' ones - I have found them useful in a small lathe not only for ali, but also (for shallow cuts) mild steel and, weirdly, brass too. Weird because the accepted wisdom is that brass wants tools with a small to zero top rake, but they seem to work! Way to go generally is HSS tho, as others have said. When I started out I was advised to learn to grind my own tools, I put it off too long and wasted money.
Regards, Robin.


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