# Thumb screws



## Mr Ed (3 Jun 2008)

No, not for torturing people!

Following discussions about Garrett Hacks scratch stock recently, which I plan to replicate, I am looking for a source of nice (preferably brass) thumbscrews. Does anyone have any ideas? I think M6 is about the right size, around 30mm long.

In the past I have simply used hex headed bolts, such as in my marking gauge article in F&C 135, but they are a bit clumsy looking and can get uncomfortable with prolonged use.







The best I have found so far is these; 
http://www.thesitebox.com/Category/5594 ... crews.aspx
but they are a bit crude looking and I don't really want to buy 100 of them.

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Cheers, Ed.


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## Aled Dafis (3 Jun 2008)

Ed

Great minds think alike. Following the discussions about exactly the same scratch stock, I also went trawling the net for some decent thumbscrews, and unfortunately I've also failed miserably.

My plan if it really came to it was to buy some brass bar, and turn some knurled thumbscrews on the engineering lathe at school.

Hopefully someone out there can help us.

Aled


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## Harbo (3 Jun 2008)

Andy on the other forum sent this message (I think he placed it here a while ago too?)

"If any one needs any metal components made (turned or milled) just let me know i am happy producing one-offs and small production runs.
If you are interested send me a digram or sketch and we can see what we can do.
Andy
[email protected]"

There could be a big demand - let me know how you get on - I could be interested in some?

Rod


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## houtslager (3 Jun 2008)

I'd be interested in some nice brass knurled knobs too  

hs in sunny and VERY HOT East Friesland


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## Anonymous (3 Jun 2008)

McMaster Carr is a great resource for hardware.
Here are some thumb screws
link


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## dunbarhamlin (4 Jun 2008)

Roger Nixon":6oi0jazz said:


> McMaster Carr is a great resource for hardware.
> Here are some thumb screws
> McMaster Carr is a great resource for hardware.
> Here are some thumb screws
> link


Unfortunately they won't ship to new non-US customers


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## woodbloke (4 Jun 2008)

I'm going to make one of those scratch stocks as well...I'll probably be using a Derek of Oz style bolt (a hex headed bolt is encapsulated in epoxy within a brass ferule) - Rob


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## PaulO (4 Jun 2008)

I made one last night out of sonokelling rosewood. The clamp screw is just an 8mm allen cap screw, until I get around to making a knurled brass one on my lathe.






TBH I can get enough torque to grip the blade with my fingers on the cap screw, so I might never get around to the thumb screw.

Tapping into the end grain never gives a very satisfactory result, but given that it has around 30mm of length engaged, it works fine. I drilled a 6mm tapping hole ( I think 6.8mm is the recommended for 8mm in steel). A taper tap went in fine, but required backing out regularly to clear the dense rosewood chips.

The blade is from an all hard hacksaw blade, sculpted with a dremel abrasive disc. 

It cuts very well, but could probably do with the tooth being a bit wider, as I currently need to take a couple of tapered shavings off my stringing to get it to fit.

Brass knurled thumb screws are readily available on the internet, or you could get plastic ones here:
http://tinyurl.com/4xfqpu

I think this could be cannibalised to make a nice thumbscrew, 
http://tinyurl.com/4f289u

but it would be an expensive way of going about it. I'm sure it is the sort of thing Axminster could import from China for pennies. Perhaps if enough of us ask. They would be useful on all sorts of home made tools.


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2008)

As an alternative to tapping a thread in the wooden block, you might be able to fit a metal cross dowel and screw into that. They are available from B&Q as well as Woodfit http://www.woodfit.com/product_info.php ... +14mm+long

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## PaulO (4 Jun 2008)

Could do. It was a case of using what I had, which was a set of taps rather than cross dowels or nut inserts that I didn't have.


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2008)

EdSutton":1qw0qmz3 said:


> No, not for torturing people!
> 
> Following discussions about Garrett Hacks scratch stock recently, which I plan to replicate, I am looking for a source of nice (preferably brass) thumbscrews. Does anyone have any ideas? I think M6 is about the right size, around 30mm long.



For function (not looks) I find a wingnut locked by the shallowest ordinary nut I can get (or make!) works well.

Edit: any of these help?

useful looking bolts

BugBear


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## George_N (4 Jun 2008)

I think it was Derek Cohen who posted a method for making knurled screws. It involved grinding down a knurled plumbing fitting and epoxying the ring around the bolt head. He was using them on plane lever caps IIRC.


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## Harbo (4 Jun 2008)

The problem now is finding decent brass pipe fittings with knurled heads. The only ones I have found are very crudly finished?

Rod


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## woodbloke (4 Jun 2008)

Harbo":1muh69ec said:


> The problem now is finding decent brass pipe fittings with knurled heads. The only ones I have found are very crudly finished?
> 
> Rod



Rod - correct, this is the problem with this method, but you can get away with a plain brass ferule...not quite so much 'grip' but it seems to work well enough. I've done this on the planes that I've made and it works quite well - Rob


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## Racers (4 Jun 2008)

Hi,

I used these knobs for a while, from the skip but also from Trend http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/productli ... knobs.html








but they where a bit big (M6) do I made these knobs from brass bar and fitted them to all my gages.






Pete


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## wayne (4 Jun 2008)

I make all my own knurled screws. I chuck a piece of round brass stock in the lathe, drill and tap a blind hole, then solder a piece of all-thread into the treaded hole. Then I screw the unfinished "bolt" into a 1"-2" piece of drilled/tapped round brass stock and chuck up the part to do the finish work. (I screw it into the brass stock to avoid messing up the threads, and the right-hand threads keep the bolt tight as I work it to its finished shape). It generally takes me about 15 minutes to do one, but doing several at once will cut individual times. Pretty quick and simple, once you do one or two, and the variations are as endless as your imagination.






-Wayne Anderson
http://www.andersonplanes.com


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## Philly (4 Jun 2008)

Nice! Wayne, how do you do the dished area? 
Philly


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## Mr Ed (4 Jun 2008)

Well that's a beautiful screw Wayne, very nicely executed.

Its just the small matter of a level of engineering skill equal to yours and owning the necessary equipment thats holding me back!

Now if Elk River was just down the road from North Derbyshire I'd be calling in for a tutorial, but somehow I can't see that happening...

Ed


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## Mr Ed (4 Jun 2008)

Well these are getting closer;

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... 4294956983

Although most of these are plastic, if you look in the 'wing' section, there are some stainless ones that look OK. I'll keep looking, but I may give some of these a try.

Cheers, Ed.


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## frugal (5 Jun 2008)

Have you looked at computer suppliers?

Quite a lot of high end PC cases have the lid held on with thumb screws. Have a look in PC World, or scan.co.uk.


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## Pete W (5 Jun 2008)

frugal":3ufmz5op said:


> Have you looked at computer suppliers?
> 
> Quite a lot of high end PC cases have the lid held on with thumb screws.



The trouble with the ones for PC cases is that they're very small and short. Might be ok for some applications, though.

Lee Valley hold a wide variety in different sizes. They lack the bling factor of brass, however.


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## Wiley Horne (5 Jun 2008)

Quick footnote.....Lee Valley does (English 'do') have a small stash of bling here:

http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page. ... 1306,41311

The problem is that the threaded length is only 3/4". To overcome that, you'd need to put a shoe under the stud to bear on the gauge arm.

For what it's worth...

Wiley


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## wayne (5 Jun 2008)

EdSutton":2nle090s said:


> Well that's a beautiful screw Wayne, very nicely executed.
> 
> Its just the small matter of a level of engineering skill equal to yours and owning the necessary equipment thats holding me back!
> 
> ...



For what it's worth; before I bought a small machinist lathe, I used to do these using my drill press and hand filed the knurls. Not the best solution to be sure, but out of necessity, one must occasionally be creative and just "make do". I sometimes make my own lathe tools out of old files. Where there's a will....

I happen to have several hundred standard profile knurling wheels. All but a very precious few are the typical diagonal and straight knurls of various pitch. If you or anyone else want a few, let me know. I will send some for the cost of shipping. I have no need for so many, and would like to see them go to a good home.

Also, if anyone has (or knows of) any decorative knurling wheels for sale or trade, please let me know. Thank you.

Cheers,
Wayne Anderson


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## Mr Ed (5 Jun 2008)

Thanks Wayne, I had been mulling over the possibility of an improvised lathe, using an electric hand drill ( I don't have drill press) and then hand filing the knurling as you suggest. I wasn't really sure how successful it would be though.

Of course, if anyone on the forum wants to sell a small metal lathe then let me know- I would be interested.

That's a very generous offer to send over some knurling wheels, if I'm honest I wouldn't be completely sure what to do with them if I had them. I assume a lathe is fairly essential? I did some basic metal turning at school (albeit over 20 years ago) so I think I could have a reasonable crack at it if I can get my hands on a small (cheap) lathe.

Cheers, Ed


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## Pete W (5 Jun 2008)

Wiley Horne":16sl3nrn said:


> Quick footnote.....Lee Valley does (English 'do') have a small stash of bling here:
> 
> http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page. ... 1306,41311



Hmmm... missed those! I wonder if Rob could be persuaded to expand the range?


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## jonbikebod (7 Jun 2008)

PM sent Wayne.
Cheers,
Jon.


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## AndyBoyd (12 Jun 2008)

http://shop.comdir.co.uk/Products.aspx? ... Template=C

plus some others below - not quite brass ones but still nice (I have a number of M3 ones for my stops on the Woodrat


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## tnimble (12 Jun 2008)

EdSutton":1ovq35y6 said:


> Thanks Wayne, I had been mulling over the possibility of an improvised lathe, using an electric hand drill ( I don't have drill press) and then hand filing the knurling as you suggest. I wasn't really sure how successful it would be though.
> 
> Of course, if anyone on the forum wants to sell a small metal lathe then let me know- I would be interested.
> 
> ...



Its not strickly neccessar to have a metal lathe. A drill press or securely mounted handdrill and an improviced clamp to hold the knurling wheel holder and the appropiate angles (depening on the knurl profile) would suffice. A metal lathe would be much more easy to set up and get consistant setup and results.


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## Pete W (17 Jun 2008)

This cropped up elsewhere in the last few days and the resourceful Mr Cohen posted a link to an ingenious tutorial of his own devising.

It does, however, send us on another pursuit since a quick google on the subject of brass hose fittings failed to turn up anything quite like Derek's recommended hardware, although there are lots of knurled brass fittings available.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (17 Jun 2008)

Here is one I made on Sunday morning ...











.. which then went here ..






.. to become my little OWT (just a little larger than a Stanley #271) ..






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Philly (17 Jun 2008)

I'd be very wary of trying to knurl a piece in the drill press. There are large forces applied to the workpiece - I certainly wouldn't want to try it. 
Find someone with a metal lathe to turn them for you.
Cheers
Philly


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## bugbear (17 Jun 2008)

Philly":iqi6i7ai said:


> I'd be very wary of trying to knurl a piece in the drill press. There are large forces applied to the workpiece - I certainly wouldn't want to try it.



At the risk of topic drift, there are two kinds of knurling tool.

The older, simpler, cheaper type pushes two knurls onto the workpiece. This puts massive forces onto the fixture doing the pushing, normally the top slide.

edit: linky

http://www.technologystudent.com/equip1/knurl1.htm

The solution, and a classic shop-made project in engineering circles, is a knurling tool where the two knurls are an adjustable distance apart, such that the two knurls can be put at almost opposite sides of the workpiece.

edit: linky:

http://www.haythornthwaite.com/Knurling%20Tool.htm

Thus, the (high) forces on the two knurls are mainly trying to tear apart the knurling tool, rather than push on the top slide. The knurling tool can of course be made robust enough to resist this force.

The thought of knurling in anything other than a suitable lathe is rather frightening.

BugBear


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## wayne (17 Jun 2008)

IMHO, if one is going to cobble together a knurled screw from brass hose fittings and a bolt, it would seem better (to me) to solder the components together, rather than use epoxy. I generally plan for a plane to be around for many generations, and the epoxy bond will likely fail at some point during that time, especially between two metal surfaces. -wayne


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## Mr Ed (24 Jun 2008)

As a result of not really finding what I wanted in the way of thumbscrews, I have somewhat embarked on a journey into engineering. Yes I know this is a woodworking forum, but it is related and hopefully of interest to some members.

Since the last round of posts on this thread I have acquired a metalworking lathe, complete with a collection of tooling, from a fellow forum member;






After a considerable amount of cleaning and setting up the machine is operational and appears to be running nicely, so I have made a start on my first items, namely brass thumbscrews.

Here is my second effort (I'll keep the first one to myself - lets just say it was a valuable learning experience!)











I'm quite pleased with it and also found the process of making it really enjoyable. Now in terms of man hours its not efficient (yet) and amortising my investment so far these currently stand as the 2 most expensive bolts I've ever handled at just over £50 each, but hey I'm on a journey.

The engineers among you will notice that the knurling is not perfect - I had real trouble getting the pattern to match up. I understood that when this happens the thing to do is reduce the diameter slightly and try again - I did this several times and never quite got there. Any tips would be greatly appreciated - I'm not an engineer so you can safely assume pretty limited knowledge on my part.

I'm now thinking about the turned metal parts I can incorporate into my furniture. I'm also thinking that I can make some small wooden parts on this machine (within reason) when the need arises.

Any comments / suggestions for improvement appreciated.

Cheers, Ed.


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## Digit (24 Jun 2008)

Never known the diameter to be a problem. Diamond knurling like this is normally done with two knurls in a frame, is this so with yours Ed?

Roy.


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## Mr Ed (24 Jun 2008)

Roy

Its the 2 wheeled one of these;

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axmi ... -22522.htm

Ed


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## Digit (24 Jun 2008)

Others may have had a different experience Ed but in my case failure to get a decent knurl was usually caused by not having the two knurls on the centre line of the piece being knurled so that pressure was applied more to one knurl than 'tother.

Roy.


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## Wiley Horne (25 Jun 2008)

Good show, Ed! Very impressive. 

Wiley


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## tnimble (25 Jun 2008)

Nice lathe and first/second thumb screw.

Turning 'small' wooden and plastic parts would be easy to do. You might want to fit a tool rest to the lathe to do some more freehand / freeform and get some gouges. (Never ever try than with metal esp ferric metals). With this perticular lathe design mind the dust with the bearings and pulleys.

To have this type of knurling to work correct to get a crisp and clean diamond pattern the tool alignment is critical. Both wheels should engage at the same time at the same angle. Carefully set the tool up with the lathe stopped and don't rely on the scales and markings, check the angles and position of the cutting edges against the work piece using feeler gauges, engineer square, calipers when approiate.


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## Harbo (25 Jun 2008)

Good work - was it milled from a single piece or joined together?

When are you going into mass production but not at £50 each! ?  

Rod


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## Mr Ed (25 Jun 2008)

Rod

Its milled from a single piece of 3/4" brass round bar. I did consider making the head and then tapping and fixing a threaded rod into it, as Wayne Anderson suggested, but I was not sure if I would get a good enough connection between the 2 due to the depth of the head (8mm). I'm sure this works fine if you are an experienced machinist but I was not sure I could carry it off.

The downside of the way I did it is that it is a bit wasteful on material as you are turning away quite a bit of what you paid for. I had a bit of a shock on the price of brass - I paid £18 inc VAT for 500mm of 3/4" round bar. I don't know if this is the going rate or not but it seemed expensive to me.

I think I need a bit more prototyping before mass production starts, but I wouldn't rule it out at some point!

Cheers, Ed.


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## Paul Chapman (25 Jun 2008)

That thumbscrew looks excellent, Ed =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Harbo (25 Jun 2008)

I wonder if you can get threaded brass rods ( My Norm's Deck Chair fittings from Rockler - see thread in Projects - comes with 2 lengths of 1/4" threaded bar)?
Then you would only have to mill the head and silver solder/glue together?

Rod


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## Anonymous (25 Jun 2008)

Why not use brass bolts? Already threaded so you only need to round and knurl the head.


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## Harbo (25 Jun 2008)

D'oh!!  

http://www.fastfixdirect.co.uk/code...oryID=59328&fType=Fasteners&search=Show+Items

Probably other suppliers as well?
Great idea thanks.

Rod


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## Mr Ed (28 Jun 2008)

OK, one last post on this then I'll shut up about thumbscrews.

I have now equipped my marking gauges with brass thumbscrews, which makes them look a whole lot better but also slightly improves their function as it is easier to tighten fully and make adjustments.







I started this post thinking that someone would come along with a website I had missed that sold the exact thing I was looking for. That didn't really happen but as a result I've actually ended up a lot further on, having acquired machinery and skills I didn't have at the start of this thread. Thinking about it, thats how I got started in making furniture in the first place as I either couldn't find or afford the things I wanted, so I made them myself. I'm quite pleased to have applied this approach again here with something I couldn't find elsewhere. 

Anyway, just off to register the domain www.brassthumbscrews.com.....(only joking)

Cheers, Ed


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## Pete W (28 Jun 2008)

Nice work, Ed. Very nice work


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## plug (29 Jun 2008)

How about these dont know about size but I may order some for my car soon. Click on TVR parts. 
https://delta.securesslhost.net/~shenglt/catalog


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