# Tuffsaw bandsaw blades a bit long.



## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

Hello all
new record bs400 bandsaw and first chance i have had to set it up etc.
ordered about £100 worth of blades from tuffsaw, great fast service.
however, just trying them now and they all seem like they are just a tiny bit too long?
they measure pretty much the same as the record blade that's coming of it but after i put the tension lever on they are still pretty saggy so i would have to wind the spring right up to tension, if it would even go that far. im sure it says if you wind it all the way up the spring wears out also.
i lie the record blade on the floor and try to put a tuffsaw blade slipped in it but it will just not fit and vica versa.
totally puzzled here, any ideas?
thanks


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## Alexam (23 Dec 2014)

Hi James,
I have always found Tuffsaw blades to be spot on. Never a problem and they have this lenght in stock normally, so expect it could be soemthing to do with the BS400. However, give Ian a call at Tuffsaw, just to check what was sent out. Sounds silly, but you did remember to turn the blade release leaver back to tension again after fitting?


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

Alexam":2houjljm said:


> Hi James,
> I have always found Tuffsaw blades to be spot on. Never a problem and they have this lenght in stock normally, so expect it could be soemthing to do with the BS400. However, give Ian a call at Tuffsaw, just to check what was sent out. Sounds silly, but you did remember to turn the blade release leaver back to tension again after fitting?


Hi
Yes lever on, record one goes nice and firm, tuffsaw ones still loose? 
will give a call but just wanted to check first.
cheers james


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

Gave a call but no answer so left a message and emailed, hopefully will hear soon.
typical me luck! 
Thanks alexm


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## Baldhead (23 Dec 2014)

James I too have the BS400, I ordered a couple of blades from Ian (I have had blades for my other smaller bandsaw from him and their very good) and like yourself I found the blade has to be tensioned to the end of the limit, but it still cuts ok.

Baldhead


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## PAC1 (23 Dec 2014)

I had two delivered last week I will put one on tomorrow and see how they are


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## CHJ (23 Dec 2014)

Sounds like you need to order the blades 10mm shorter, Ian can weld them up to any length as required.

How do the Tuffsaw blades measure up to the 3378 mm quoted in the manual? Is this indeed the size of the record supplied blades.


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## Baldhead (23 Dec 2014)

CHJ":jyesqcy1 said:


> Sounds like you need to order the blades 10mm shorter, Ian can weld them up to any length as required.
> 
> How do the Tuffsaw blades measure up to the 3378 mm quoted in the manual? Is this indeed the size of the record supplied blades.


Chas when I ordered my blades from Ian I told him 133" and gave him the model of the saw, I've had blades for my smaller Axy saw from Ian and they were excellent, I didn't complain to Ian about the blades for the BS400 because I can tension them ok (it is right up to the limit though) I thought it was maybe something to do with the type of blade?

Baldhead


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## RogerP (23 Dec 2014)

I sure Ian would shorten them for you.


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## CHJ (23 Dec 2014)

*James, Baldhead. * have either of you actually measured the Record Blades and the replacement Tuff Blades.

If there is a consistent difference from the 3378 mm (133") it would be good to confirm to let Ian and other members know.


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## Baldhead (23 Dec 2014)

Chas I held the record blade next to Ian's blade and both seem to be the same size, that's why I assumed it was just different metals? I'm sure if I asked Ian he would shorten them but like I say it tensions up and cuts perfectly, the indicator needle is way off the scale, but my understanding of these is that they only give you a rough guide?

I know Bob (Random Orbital Bob) has a BS400, he may have blades from Ian too, however he has his hands full at the minute.

Baldhead


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## Alexam (23 Dec 2014)

I do know that Bob (Random Orbital Bob), uses blades from Tuffsaw and believe he mentions this in his BS400 review, but if not, he has said this to me when we discussed the BS400 I bought.

My bandsaw is not fully tensioned and the measuring scale is only a bit off from the markings.


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## no idea (23 Dec 2014)

I've got a number of different blades from Tuffsaws for my BS400 and haven't had this issue. I only state the bandsaw model number when ordering rather than the specific blade length and I've not had a problem. 

Are you tensioning in accordance with the tensioning gauge or by feel? I ignore the indicator and just tension it sufficiently to reduce slack in the blade so that is can only be deflected about 10mm.


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

Hi Guys
As same with baldhead they appear to be same length but certainly must be different just by a little.
CHJ it's hard to actually measure these exactly, used a tape and both seem about the same but it need's to be accurately measured to mm's which i can't do.
I know the gauge is just a guide and i'm going by feeling, when i get it to near where it should be the spring is pretty much fully compressed and obviously the needle is way way off...
Not keen to have my spring compressed in this manner and would rather the blades were just a bit shorter.
will have another look tomorrow.
thanks james


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## aideym (23 Dec 2014)

I use Tuffsaw blades on my Record Power Bandsaw, I would agree that they tension up longer than the record ones, My BS250 isn't equipped with a gauge but I do them by sound as shown by Record Power's demonstrator at a show. I have to say that Tuffsaw blades are in a different league compared to Record Power's own


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## PAC1 (23 Dec 2014)

I managed to change the blade today. It is the same length and tensioned slightly different to the gauge but as they say they are more for guidance then your actual tension point


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

Thanks Pac. Mine is greatly different. Gauge right of the scale.


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## PAC1 (23 Dec 2014)

James, what width blade are you installing?


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## Steve Maskery (23 Dec 2014)

Are you comparing like with like? I.e. width and thickness as well as length?
The general rule is that the more steel there is in the blade the greater must be the tension.So wider thicker blades will need more tension, even if they are the same length.
S


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

hi, the bandsaw comes with a 3/4 record blade, i tried a tuffsaw 3/4 and 3/8, both are slack once tension is on, and both require me to wind the tension to the very max with the tension spring compressed.
the 3/4 tuffsaw blade is thicker than the record one but the 3/8 one certainly isn't.


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## PAC1 (23 Dec 2014)

Hmm I put the 3/8th Tuffsaws M42 blade on today I could have wound the tension further but a quick lateral test told me it was ok. So how much lateral movement do you have with the guides at the full 12 inch cut. I had about 1/4 inch


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## Jmac80 (23 Dec 2014)

PAC1":6cmhio19 said:


> Hmm I put the 3/8th Tuffsaws M42 blade on today I could have wound the tension further but a quick lateral test told me it was ok. So how much lateral movement do you have with the guides at the full 12 inch cut. I had about 1/4 inch


will check tomorrow pac, may do a couple of wee videos also


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## woodpig (24 Dec 2014)

The Tuffsaw blades for my Record BS300E are not that easy to get on and could do with being a bit Longer!


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## Steve Maskery (24 Dec 2014)

Do a swap! 

The thicker 3/4" blade would account for the difference in tension, but I don't have an explanation for the 3/8" one.


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## woodpig (24 Dec 2014)

When I get a minute I'm going to attempt to get an accurate measurement of MY machine and order blades by length, not machine model. This should prevent any future problems.


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## Baldhead (24 Dec 2014)

Steve Maskery":1g9n7sl9 said:


> Are you comparing like with like? I.e. width and thickness as well as length?
> The general rule is that the more steel there is in the blade the greater must be the tension.So wider thicker blades will need more tension, even if they are the same length.
> S


Steve in my case that would explain the difference in tensioning the blade, Record supplied a 3/8" blade, the blades I bought from Ian are 3/4", both blades are approximately the same thickness. I am not complaining about the blades supplied by Ian, it cuts straight and true although the tensioning is at its maximum, Ian supplied exactly what I asked for i.e. A blade 133" long. I am not concerned about the tensioning as I slacken the blade off after use with the 'cam action tensioner'

Baldhead


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## Jmac80 (28 Dec 2014)

Hello
Could fellow bs400 owners do me a small favor please and compare your machine to my photos.

where about is the yellow gauge 2 x screw holes positioned on yours, A bottom or B top or somewhere else?










And how about the screw above the spring, here is 2 pics of mine.









edit: very bottom pic should read tension ON.. sigh (small few mm gap under the screw)

I know the gauge is to be mostly ignored but i'm just interested to see.
Ian got back to me today and is happy to cut a bit of the length, So i shall do that because the tension spring is fully compressed with the tuffsaw blades and it just doesn't feel good lol.

thanks all


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## Mr T (28 Dec 2014)

How are people measuring blade length? There is talk of comparing them by laying them on top of each other. I measure length by rolling the band across the floor. 
Start with the weld on a mark on the floor, then roll it one complete revolution and mark the new position of the weld then measure the length between marks. You should then be able to accurately compare blade lengths.

Chris


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## woodbrains (28 Dec 2014)

Hello,

With a bit of maths, it is fairly easy and accurate. Install said blade and wind out the slack with tensioning knob. Measure the centre to centre distance of wheel bearings and the diameter of a wheel. The blade length is worked out by adding twice the bearing centre length to pi times the wheel diameter. 

If you think one blade is a bit longer than one that is obviously working, then no sums are needed. Install good blade and measure bearing centres. Install suspect blade and measure bearing centres. Twice the difference ( if there is any) is the amount the suspect blade is longer than the good one. 

Hope this helps.

Mike.


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## Duncan A (28 Dec 2014)

If the Tuffsaw blades are M42, they will need more tensioning than a conventional blade. But I would have expected Ian to have mentioned that?

Duncan


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## marcros (28 Dec 2014)

is there such a gauge that can measure the correct tension on a blade- an equivalent of a torque wrench?


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 Dec 2014)

There is but its an industrial tool and very expensive apparently. (Many hundreds so never appears in home shops)


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 Dec 2014)

Getting back to the OP's point. It is a bit odd I must confess. My experience has been good with both Ian's blades (including for older bandsaws) and also for the relative accuracy of the tensioning guide.

My old BS300 tensioning guide was a complete joke and you took pretty much no stock of its position whatsoever. All the tensioning needed to be assessed by all the other usual means (sideways deflection, sound, gut feel etc). So when I installed and fettled the BS400 I was frankly a bit shocked at how (relatively) accurate the guide was. I messed about with 3 different thicknesses, 2 of Ian's and one of Records and the tension pointer was close to if not spot on the calibration for that thickness. I nearly cut my own head off with surprise!!

Then I installed the inch thick 1.3tpi ripper blade designed for deep green log ripping and the accuracy days were over! That sucker took the tension needle off the chart, though in fairness it didn't go right to the very end of the travel on the spring (though not far off).

So it does sound like yours is a fault! Whether its a fault with the blades length or the machine I cant say. What I can say is that I have more faith in Ian not cocking up his welding to length than I do of a manufacturing fault!!

Regardless, it sounds to me that Chas's solution of simply getting a 10mm smaller blade is the pragmatic workaround. How ironic that Ian's blades and service would be so good that it could overcome a hardware problem


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

It's a bit of a tricky one that. I call record and they will ask what about the record blade which I will reply oh it's fine, 
Instant blame of the tuffsaw blades. 
How does your gauge compare to the pics I posted? 
Thanks


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## PAC1 (29 Dec 2014)

Not sure it helps but the screws are 1/4 from the top


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

Thanks pac


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## Bod (29 Dec 2014)

To measure a band saw blade length.
Remove blade, tie a short length of cotton/string around the blade, in a tooth gullet. Measure from string to string using a long enough measure.
Repeat measurement at least twice.
The cotton/string gives a definite starting point, and a fixed end. Using welds, missing, bent teeth etc. can all be duplicated further round.

Bod


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## CHJ (29 Dec 2014)

Spring performance is also a factor, spring may not be tempered correctly, broken etc. all worth a check.
Also tensioning rods are notorious for stripping threads if the base material used is not up to scratch.
Adjustment/location nuts on tensioning rod in correct location?

All of the above could affect the amount of spring tension applied but would do nothing for the drive wheel and coaster wheel centres being wrong in the first place.


How is the lower wheel centred and adjusted for parallel running, can it be lowered, thereby increasing the between centres distance a few millimetres, by adjusting upper and lower centralising bolts for instance as it can on some designs.


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

CHJ":2nnbs31r said:


> How is the lower wheel centred and adjusted for parallel running, can it be lowered, thereby increasing the between centres distance a few millimetres, by adjusting upper and lower centralising bolts for instance as it can on some designs.



CHL thank you

I think this could maybe solve it?
It is quite a bit higher towards the top as per picture, so if i even just center is that should make a fair difference?


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## OLD (29 Dec 2014)

I have a similar saw and if i cannot tension the blade as you indicate i put a washer cut in a 'U' in the tension wheel and rod mec. to compensate and readjust.


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## Steve Maskery (29 Dec 2014)

Do not touch those bolts!!!!!!

They control the tracking of the bottom wheel and nothing you have said suggests that that is a problem. They are factory set and should not be altered unless absolutely necessary. Plus, making the shaft more central will make your problem worse, not better. And if you alter the East-West pair your blade will just be shrugged off.

I repeat, don't touch those bolts.

S


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

Ok will not touch. Thanks  :lol:


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

Hi OLD
I did think about that. 
There is a square spacer in there from factory, it must be 5mm or so thick. If there was another it would make the difference I think.


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## Baldhead (29 Dec 2014)

Jmac80":2wwn5qf7 said:


> Hello
> Could fellow bs400 owners do me a small favor please and compare your machine to my photos.
> 
> where about is the yellow gauge 2 x screw holes positioned on yours, A bottom or B top or somewhere else?
> ...


James I've checked my saw today, the position of the yellow gauge screws is at the bottom (picture A) 
I didnt understand your problem until I looked the arrangement of the spring, I thought once the tension was released with the cam lever then the spring would not be compressed, but I was wrong #-o 
I've emailed Ian and asked if he can shorten my two blades I bought.
Can I just point out though, that the blades I've had from Ian have been excellent, and I got exactly what I asked for so this is not Ians fault.

Baldhead


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## Jmac80 (29 Dec 2014)

thanks baldhead
the tension is ON in both pictures with the yellow gauge. i just unscrewed the gauge holder and slipped it down.
it seems our saws are very similar,maybe from the same factory run. when did you get it?


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## Giff (29 Dec 2014)

I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?


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## woodpig (29 Dec 2014)

Random Orbital Bob":15hsww4s said:


> My old BS300 tensioning guide was a complete joke and you took pretty much no stock of its position whatsoever.



That's strange because the gauge on my BS300E seems pretty much spot on. Albeit the blades seem a bit short! I still have the original Record blade somewhere, I'll have to check it against the others.


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## Baldhead (30 Dec 2014)

Jmac80":3e7u6i1g said:


> thanks baldhead
> the tension is ON in both pictures with the yellow gauge. i just unscrewed the gauge holder and slipped it down.
> it seems our saws are very similar,maybe from the same factory run. when did you get it?


I ordered mine late July, delivered in August.
As the gauge is adjustable I assume they tension the blade at the factory and adjust the blade gauge to suit? 

Baldhead


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## Jmac80 (30 Dec 2014)

Baldhead":22qs8d0u said:


> Jmac80":22qs8d0u said:
> 
> 
> > thanks baldhead
> ...



i'd imagine so.
Yours and my BS400 both seem to need way more tension than other bs400 owners. (both our gauge screws are right to bottom.
As per pics of random orbital bob's bandsaw in his review and PACS there gauge is near the top of the scews, so their machine are obviously set up different or firmer spring .. something.


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## Steve Maskery (30 Dec 2014)

I'd forget about the gauge altogether, if it is that problematic.
In any case, a standard blade and a thin-kerf blade will need different tension, even if they are the same width.
Just tension it until it sounds and feels right and away you go.
Also remember that the limiting factor on the size of blade you can install is usually the width of the wheel, it is the ability of the machine to tension the blade. So even though the wheel may have a nominal size of 25mm, and you could, in theory, install a 25mm blade, the machine itself may well not have the strength to tension it.
The good news is that you can rip accurately very successfully with a 1/2" blade and almost any bandsaw can tension that properly.
S


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## Baldhead (30 Dec 2014)

Steve Maskery":252k3ubt said:


> I'd forget about the gauge altogether, if it is that problematic.
> In any case, a standard blade and a thin-kerf blade will need different tension, even if they are the same width.
> Just tension it until it sounds and feels right and away you go.
> Also remember that the limiting factor on the size of blade you can install is usually the width of the wheel, it is the ability of the machine to tension the blade. So even though the wheel may have a nominal size of 25mm, and you could, in theory, install a 25mm blade, the machine itself may well not have the strength to tension it.
> ...


Hi Steve
In my case I'm not bothered about the gauge (it's adjustable anyhow so you can 'make it fit' so to speak) it's the fact that when I trnsion the blade correctly the spring is almost fully compressed, which can't be doing it any good? At first I didn't see this as a problem because I always detension the blade with cam lever when it's not in use but this doesn't relieve the tension on the spring.
I've just had a thought and your probably the right person to ask for advice, if Record are using a slightly longer spring in their later models ie mine and James' than that would account for the spring being fully compressed, is that right?
Sorry if I sound stupid but all I know about bandsaws is what I've seen on your DVD's.
Cheers
Stew


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## CHJ (31 Dec 2014)

Giff":2u9acrrk said:


> I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?


I don't know the construction details of the bandsaw but as Giff says is there any adjustment of the upper wheel spindle centre/tension release mechanism and the lower end of the spring housing?

One machine I fitted a new tensioning threaded rod in for someone some years ago, (usual stripped thread/nut problem) there was considerable leeway in the setting between these two, by positioning of nuts/locknuts, finally settling on a position that gave a reasonable spring compression but just stopped short of the top wheel fouling the upper case when fully raised.


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## Jmac80 (31 Dec 2014)

CHJ":3dszen3l said:


> Giff":3dszen3l said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know this model but is there any adjustment in the wheels ? Perhaps pre-set differently to the blueprint ?
> ...



I shall take a few pics of the mechanism and post here


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## Steve Maskery (31 Dec 2014)

Baldhead":216h2a0w said:


> all I know about bandsaws is what I've seen on your DVD's.



That makes two of us.

I think I'd need to see the machine before I could offer any more than has been said already.

I do think you woud be hard-pressed to over-compress a coil spring. Over-extending it would cause much more damage much more easily.
I think you have some good ideas above that are easy to try out and I shall be as interested as anyone to read about how they turned out.
Good luck
Steve


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## Baldhead (31 Dec 2014)

I think I have the answer.

If you look at pictures 3 and 4 on one of James' posts you can see a bolt which allows some adjustment to the space where the spring is located. This bolt acts as a stop for the block which the top wheel is mounted on, the block sits ontop of the spring, if you slacken this bolt you will effectively increase the area in which the spring is located, therefore the spring will be less compressed, I'm useless at explaining things, I will try and draw it sometime when I haven't had any alcohol (it is New Years Eve after all) 

It has nothing to do with Ians blades, or indeed their length, the machine is not set up for Ians blades.

Thanks go to Chas, your last post got me thinking, I only hope I'm right otherwise I'm going to look a right plonker (and I've done that several times in the past).

Enough, back to the merriment, have a super new year guys.

Take care

Baldhead


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## Jmac80 (31 Dec 2014)

hehe look forward to your sketches, best time to draw them will be 3am this morning :lol: 
Give us a laugh :mrgreen: 
Like you say it certainly is not Ians blades as they are of the highest quality precision. And he is also good enough to offer to shorten them for free so they would fit the machine better. Nice one thanks Ian =D> 
Have a good new year :ho2


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## Baldhead (2 Jan 2015)

Heres a couple of pictures which show the arrangement of the blade tensioning device, the exploded diagram is from the Record handbook (hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws) the other picture is from Bobs (Random Orbital Bobs) review. 
It looks like the only reason for the spring is to keep the handwheel under tension to stop it rotating when the saws in use, as the handwheel is on the underside and not the top as it is on some machines.
The distance the spring can travel looks like it can be adjusted by either tightening or slackening the small bolt (No 83) which will increase or decrease the space between the bottom of the frame and the block on which the wheel is mounted.
As clear as mud?
HTH
Baldhead


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## Jmac80 (2 Jan 2015)

i think i follow you, are you going to try it? if so take some before and after pics of the screw positions


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## Random Orbital Bob (5 Jan 2015)

Chaps...Stew has just pm'd me on this...I had not read the thread for a while.

In response to the tensioning lever screws....mine are pretty much in the middle in fact. Though it now seems you've moved on from that in your thinking. Stew...you asked me to measure the length of my spring (ooh err phnaar phnaar). I'll go do that now...hang on....

right then.....its 75mm in length when compressed sufficiently to operate a 1" ripper blade (from Ian) ie as it was when I got to the saw. Then I untensioned it and wound the hand wheel to loose. Now its 85mm so a 10mm travel between slack and tight for a 1" blade. It wasn't going to take much more tension than that, a little, but then its stated capacity is 1" so I have no expectation it should.

In fact to be honest, as mentioned in my review, many band saws only tension to about 1/4" below the manufacturers claims. Don't forget those dreaded marketing folks get a chance to input to the spec sheets!! I'm saying no more. So when the BS400 was able to take a 1" blade I was overjoyed.

On a practical note though (as Steve M has also stated), I use 1/2" low tpi blades all the time for rough stuff and they're a superb compromise because not only can they cut some pretty thick timber, they can still handle a pretty tight radius


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## Glynne (14 Jan 2015)

I've been following this with interest although I have a BS350 rather than a BS400.
I've been using Ian's 1/4" & 1/2" blades without any problem but today I needed to start resawing a lot of timber which I've been putting off for a while. I have a 3/4" 3/4 tooth vari blade from Ian so I envisaged no problems (apart from the usual resawing ones). I really struggled to get any tension on the blade and resorted to removing the "gauge" to allow me to tighten further as I found this caught on the mounting screws. Slightly better but the planer/thicknesser is in for some serious work!
I removed the blade and measured it and it comes out at 2645mm (3 measurements 2644, 2645 & 2646) against the manual specification of 2630mm.
Now I don't know too much about the blade manufacturing process but I'm guessing this is the blade under no tension (not that I think the tension would account for 15mm)?
Before I give Ian a shout, is there anything obvious I'm missing? I have Steve's DVD, I have managed to resaw on a previous cheap Chinese bandsaw but, tracking issues apart, this seems to be down to a lack of tension due to a larger blade than the machine needs.
Thanks in advance.
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (14 Jan 2015)

Is the blade absolutely spanking brand new ie really sharp? I find that resawing very thick stock really highlights any bluntness in a blade.

It is worth calling Ian though. If for some reason his blades are long he'll do something about it. His service is flawless in my experience.


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## Glynne (15 Jan 2015)

Thanks Bob.
Yes it was a new blade but even at full tension on the saw you could easily deflect the blade onto the frame, none of this 1/4" movement with a firm fore finger. The supplied Record blade (which isn't up to much) tensions OK but will only rip straight on thinish stock so I'll take that off and measure it before giving Ian a shout.
A bit disappointing really as I bought the BS350 specifically to resaw more stock and cut some thickish veneers but I'll get it sorted eventually.


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## Random Orbital Bob (15 Jan 2015)

One more thing occurs to me. That blade is new you say, when did you buy it and have you measured its length against the ones you're not having any trouble tensioning (to see if that one is clearly different)? It's a bit odd isn't it, there almost seems to be a trend emerging here. I would definitely talk it through with Ian. I mean it sounds like he's welded a batch too long (including those BS400 ones) but that scenario is just so totally unlikely given what I know of the man. The other possibility is that Record Power's Chaiwanese factory have set up a machine tool wrongly and they're producing a batch of incorrectly specified machines. That also is unlikely given the problem is happening to both BS400 and 350 users and few of their components are shared due to the scale differences. Its almost like someone's measuring equipment has gone out of calibration so it keeps introducing a 15mm or so error...also highly unlikely??

If it were me I'd be on the phone to Ian...there's nothing the bloke doesn't know about bandsaws and blades.

Will you report back when you get more light on the subject as this is a bit of a head scratcher?
Thanks mate


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## Glynne (15 Jan 2015)

Will do.
I'll have a play with all the blades I have, 3 from Ian and the supplied Record one and check the sizes before giving Ian a call. I've always been pleased with Tuffsaws so I'm more interested in getting my saw set up properly rather than complaining so if I need a new blade I'll get Ian to check the size before sending it on. 
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (15 Jan 2015)

Is the saw new as well then Glynne?


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## Baldhead (15 Jan 2015)

When I measured my blade from Ian against the Record blade, the Record blade is a snug fit inside Ians blade but I couldn't get Ians blade to fit around the Record blade, Ians blade is slightly longer, but that's comparing the two, I haven't physically measured either blade, the Record blade maybe shorter than specified?

As Steve has posted, forget the blade tension indicator, it's a bit of a gimmick as it can be adjusted up or down to make it correspond with the size of blade that is fitted, this I believe is how Record set the indictor at the factory.

Assuming the blade tensioning is the same on the BS350 as it is on the BS400, I measured the spring with the tension completely off, with the Record blade fitted and with Ians blade fitted, I cannot remember the figures but there are only a few mm difference in the spring length, nothing to be unduly concerned with, although Ians did require more tension, that said the blades were different sizes.

TBH I'm more than happy with Ians blade, I was originally going to ask him to shorten it, but I'm not going to bother now, it cuts cleanly and straight which is exactly what I want.
I really think, in case anyhow, that the machine just needs setting up to recieve Ians blades.

HTH

Baldhead


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## Glynne (15 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the replies guys.
Bob - the bandsaw is just under 2 years old.
Baldhead - I haven't measured the Record blade but the lack of tension on the Tuffsaws one was really apparent and I don't think any amount of tuning was going to help. I've removed the flimsy tensioning guide as it actually reduces the amount of tension you could apply. I'll have another go tomorrow and start from complete scratch but the fact that the blade appears to be 15mm oversize seems strange unless they are deliberately manufactured that way.
I'm sure it can be sorted and that's all I'm about so I'll have a good play and see where that takes me but I'll let people know as sometimes in these situations you think "It's just me" when often it's not. 
Glynne


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## Glynne (16 Jan 2015)

Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.
As is promised I decided to refit the Tuffsaws one and start from scratch so all guides moved completely out of the way and I took the very unusual step of actually reading the manual firstly. What I hadn't previously noticed is that the instructions tell you that before you install the new blade, you should raise the top wheel (with the tensioning lever) and turn the tensioning knob to the setting for your new width of blade. You then lower the top wheel, fit the new blade and re-tension, adjusting as necessary. 
The blade is a lot more taut than it was but I'm still not convinced it is tight enough for resawing. I have no idea why this makes a difference but it does and I must have left a higher setting when I moved to the Record blade.
I have added more tension with the knob but to do that I have to remove the indicator lever as it slips off the pin at the bottom of the tensioning mechanism and catches.
I still think I will drop Ian a line and ask about the length of blades against the machine specification as it seems strange but there could be a manufacturing reason for it.
Glynne


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## woodpig (16 Jan 2015)

Just be sure you can actually fit the shortened blade as Ian won't be able to lengthen it again if its too short!


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## jumps (16 Jan 2015)

Glynne":1p650nvj said:


> Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.
> As is promised I decided to refit the Tuffsaws one and start from scratch so all guides moved completely out of the way and I took the very unusual step of actually reading the manual firstly. What I hadn't previously noticed is that the instructions tell you that before you install the new blade, you should raise the top wheel (with the tensioning lever) and turn the tensioning knob to the setting for your new width of blade. You then lower the top wheel, fit the new blade and re-tension, adjusting as necessary.
> The blade is a lot more taut than it was but I'm still not convinced it is tight enough for resawing. I have no idea why this makes a difference but it does and I must have left a higher setting when I moved to the Record blade.
> I have added more tension with the knob but to do that I have to remove the indicator lever as it slips off the pin at the bottom of the tensioning mechanism and catches.
> ...



the really strange thing to me reading this is that Ian would provide a blade for a BS350 at anything other than 2630mm.

I could understand a used, thinner, blade having stretched to the length indicated
also that you could adequately tension a thinner blade that overlength
and that you can't tension a 3/4" blade properly that's that overlength - it's at the limit of the machines spec to be able to tension properly anyway!


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## Random Orbital Bob (16 Jan 2015)

Glynne":1syl6jx1 said:


> Right. I went down to the workshop this morning and took off the supplied Record blade and measured it - exactly the same length as the Tuffsaws one (2645)! So I have 2 blades exactly the same length and can tension the narrower one but not the 3/4" one.Glynne



That right there may be the reason. This is new information...you're saying you can tension a narrower blade but not a 3/4". You've not said what width the narrower one is. It sounds like you're simply at the limit of the saw. The majority of bandsaws struggle to tension the blade width specified by the manufacturer as the max width. My experience is typically 1/4" less than published max is their "real max".

Was Ian's blade the 3/4" or was that the Record blade?

Another feature of Ian's blades (sabrecut at least) is they're thinner than normal blades. One reason is it means many less expensive bandsaws can tension at their max setting and also the thinner kerf means they clear waste more easily and keep cutting straight as a consequence. So which was which in your scenario?


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## Glynne (17 Jan 2015)

Sorry Bob I thought it mentioned that the Record blade is 3/8".
I've had another little play today and I can get a lot more tension by slacking off the "quick tension" lever, tightening the normal tension knob and then cranking the lever back to tension the blade which is more in line with the instructions. I don't know why this works but it does so I'm somewhere closer to be where I want to be.
The blade from Ian is a 3/4" 3/4 vari tooth but it the sabre cut whereas the Record one is a 3 tpi but I'll ask the question of Ian and see what he thinks and if he can suggest a better blade.
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (17 Jan 2015)

Its odd isn't it...that slacken off the quick tension lever routine making it tension better. I don't understand that either but I'll try that with my 400 on next blade change too. With Ian's blades he has different thicknesses depending on the blade. I know he as a regular thickness and also a "tougher" level which is about 10thou thicker and that will be more difficult to tension. If that 3/4" is basically not specially thinner then my guess is it's just beyond the boundary of the saw to tension it (based on the previous discussion about manufacturers being over zealous in their brochures).

A chat with Ian should reveal if he has a thinner gauge blade that the saw would be able to tension even at 3/4". The other thing though is simply to go to 5/8 because there is precious little that cant do that a 3/4 can.

Anyway, do keep this thread updated wont you as this is helpful to me and other BS users for sure. Best of luck.


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## woodpig (17 Jan 2015)

I think the bottom line is that you really need to get to know your own bandsaw. Things aren't always as simple as they appear and the instruction manuals (even when folks do read them!) may not be as good as they could be. As Bob says this thread could come in handy for folks with the same saw so keep us updated.


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## paulm (17 Jan 2015)

Can't believe this thread has got to five pages and no one involved has spoken to Ian at Tuffsaws yet, or have I missed that !!! :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## Glynne (17 Jan 2015)

No you haven't missed it, it is on my "To Do' list.
I'll post the outcome.


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## Glynne (19 Jan 2015)

Ive just emailed Ian now to ask the question about blade lengths and referenced this post so he knows it's just not me and which should let him know that people do value his blades.
Just to add to the confusion, I went back to my original Tuffsaws invoice for my blades and they are shown as being 2630mm when the actual length is 2645mm - some 15mm longer. Now I'm no metallurgist but I doubt that my bandsaw could permanently stretch a 3/4'' blade by 15mm so I'm interested to hear the answer which may be some manufacturing allowance?
I'll let you know idc.
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (19 Jan 2015)

Good man Glynne. Ian has an account on here by the way. Now that doesn't necessarily mean he has read this thread because he is very busy right now but he does comment from time to time. I happen to know he's busy because I ordered 3 off 5/8" sabrecuts last week which arrived today. I order by e mail usually and you can tell how busy Ian is by how long it takes him to respond. I suspect his business is growing because his product and service are top notch.


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## jumps (19 Jan 2015)

Glynne":u14729kq said:


> Just to add to the confusion, I went back to my original Tuffsaws invoice for my blades and they are shown as being 2630mm when the actual length is 2645mm - some 15mm longer. Now I'm no metallurgist but I doubt that my bandsaw could permanently stretch a 3/4'' blade by 15mm so I'm interested to hear the answer which may be some manufacturing allowance?



on the one hand it reduces the overall potential for confusion!

as already posted you will probably get away with being able to acceptably tension a slightly overlength narrow blade - but not the wider one.

as you can't tension it I can't see how you will have stretched the new blade at all!

whilst 15mm is a very small percentage error in a 2630mm blade I would be surprised if the manufacturing tolerance is that high - we will find out!

I'm still slightly focused on you having 2 nominal 2630 blades that measure exactly the same 2645mm - I don't like coincidences :idea:


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## Glynne (20 Jan 2015)

I emailed Ian and 11:58 yesteday lunchtime and he got back to me at 16:15!
The bottom line is that the blade should be as per the manufacturers specification i.e. 2630mm and so if it is longer (assuming I can measure), then whilst he makes every effort to be as accurate as possible, he could have made an error being human like the rest of us. 

_"I try my best to make sure that every blade that goes out is perfect but I occasionally slip up and the odd one or two will get past me that's not 100% correct - it is a very, very small percentage that this happens to and it sounds like the 3/4" blade might have been made oversize - blade lengths will vary because of the welding process and tooth matching but I try to keep the variation as close to the recommended size as possible". _

I thought that was a really refreshing reply rather than the frequent, you as the customer must have done something wrong.
Ian suggested I return the blade so he can check it and he will re-weld it to the correct length if needed. I've told him I'm happy to do that (I think if was me I'd want to check it too) but having used the blade previously on thinner stock, I would be taking liberties in putting him to that trouble and so I've asked him if he still wants it back to have a look at and to recommend a blade specifically for re-sawing.

To answer jumps comment, yes it is spooky as to why the narrower Record blade is over length by exactly the same amount - but I just know I'll get nowhere if I try the same type of query with Record so I'm not even going to bother!

Just as a post script, I should mention the huge personal risk I went to in measuring the blade. I wasn't convinced as to the accuracy of moving the blade across the floor and the measuring the travel or in using a piece of string due to the possibility of stretching. So I used a very expensive 1500mm seamstress's tape measure that doesn't stretch and is soft enough to fold around the blade. If the said owner of the tape measure ever finds out, you will be reading my obituary!
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (20 Jan 2015)

Nice one Glynne. Like the bit about your Missus's tape measure :=)

I would send the blade back to Ian. When he sent you that response that was completely and utterly honest ie even he makes mistakes....that is exactly why you can trust him every single time. Send it...he'll check it and if its wrong he'll fix it. Then we all know what's going on one way or another. It wont make a jot of difference to his business in any negative way, in fact I'll wager it more likely people warm to him even more because he's such a decent bloke. I had one of his blades break once at the weld and he replaced it without a quibble. He understands that successful businesses need customers to place repeat orders as well as attract new ones. Those customers will always place repeat orders when the product is good and if something goes wrong he fixes it. Which he does, without fail.

I remember many years ago a famous American Ivy league business consultant called Tom Peters wrote several books about re-engineering businesses. He would have loved Tuff Saws because he does everything right. Great product, great price, great after sale care.


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## Baldhead (20 Jan 2015)

Random Orbital Bob":12ggoy0a said:


> Nice one Glynne. Like the bit about your Missus's tape measure :=)
> 
> I would send the blade back to Ian. When he sent you that response that was completely and utterly honest ie even he makes mistakes....that is exactly why you can trust him every single time. Send it...he'll check it and if its wrong he'll fix it. Then we all know what's going on one way or another. It wont make a jot of difference to his business in any negative way, in fact I'll wager it more likely people warm to him even more because he's such a decent bloke. I had one of his blades break once at the weld and he replaced it without a quibble. He understands that successful businesses need customers to place repeat orders as well as attract new ones. Those customers will always place repeat orders when the product is good and if something goes wrong he fixes it. Which he does, without fail.
> 
> I remember many years ago a famous American Ivy league business consultant called Tom Peters wrote several books about re-engineering businesses. He would have loved Tuff Saws because he does everything right. Great product, great price, great after sale care.


Totally agree with everything you have said about Ian, he is a VERY decent bloke, unfortunately what he did for me some time ago I can't tell anyone, he asked me not to!!!
He supplies great blades, at a fair price (I would actually pay more!) and gives advice freely, I have asked him what sort of blade I need and he has on occasion actually sold me a cheaper blade than I was going to buy.

Baldhead


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## jumps (20 Jan 2015)

Baldhead":2z5tzmuf said:


> He supplies great blades, at a fair price (I would actually pay more!) and gives advice freely, *I have asked him what sort of blade I need and he has on occasion actually sold me a cheaper blade than I was going to buy.
> *
> Baldhead



done that with me too - and the damn thing worked fine too!

clearly a new fangled business model that will never catch on (homer)


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## Random Orbital Bob (20 Jan 2015)

I think its a little sad that Ian, by being a really decent and honest bloke sticks out like a sore thumb! A jewel amongst charlatans and rip off merchants with just your wallet in mind. Good for him but a sad indictment on the general state of business.


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## Ring (21 Jan 2015)

Cant fault Ian or his service his blades are second to none very knowledable in his field and tbh would not look elsewhere an honest down to earth guy that puts other businesses to shame. 
Jim


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## WellsWood (21 Jan 2015)

Well, with all this discussion about tension meters and bandsaws, It's clearly time to point out an old post of mine regarding this very subject. Might help somebody out - and now so old is unlikely to show up on anyone's radar.

It only remains for me to say I can't echo loudly enough Steve's comment about NOT DISTURBING THE LOWER WHEEL ADJUSTMENT BOLTS. Been there, done that, as they say - took an absolute age to get the damn things right again - never again!


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## Glynne (26 Jan 2015)

Just as a footnote to my earlier posts, I've decided not to send the blade back to Ian as I have used it quite a lot and whilst he is more than happy to shorten it for me, I think I would be taking liberties. I've ordered a Fastcut one so hopefully I can get the right amount of tension on this one.
In changing blades, I have again pre-adjusted the top wheel to the likely tension before releasing the quick lever and fitting the blade. Don't ask me why but it does make a difference on my saw?
Glynne


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## Random Orbital Bob (26 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the update Glynne


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## DennisCA (26 Jan 2015)

On band saw tensioning:
https://woodgears.ca/bandsaw/tension.html

May be of use. I've been looking around the net to see if one should de-tension or not and came across this and loads of other thread and opinions, hard to separate the chaff from the wheat but from what I've understood it doesn't seem to be needed, unless you've managed to tension your blade beyond it's limit, which is quite high as the above link shows.


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