# Manual miter saw (and some very good skirting board tips)



## davic (23 Jun 2013)

I got manual miter saw from ebay for a tenner; used and the trouble is it seems to go off line when I am cutting depths of say two skirting boards.

It might be my mistake but there is no adjustment and I can watch the blade veer off. I bought it because I could not afford a powered saw. I was just wondering your views.

The question is are they any good? My first thought is no. I am using pallet wood that is glued together and not 'true' just to give you the full picture.


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## Eric The Viking (23 Jun 2013)

Is this actually for cutting skirting boards? 

If so, you only need mitres on "returning" corners, such as the outer corners of chimney breasts where they turn back towards the walls. On internal corners (the four corners of a room, for example), you'll get much more satisfying results by cutting one board square and "coping" (also called scribing) the other one to match it. That's cutting the opposite of the profile of the board into its edge so the coped board fits onto the other board's moulding exactly. 

Fitted together, it looks like a mitre, but it won't gap as nastily when the boards expand and contract, as they inevitably will. The square cut board goes on the wall furthest from the window and parallel to it, and the coped boards meet it. Work from there back round the room. At each joint, cope cut the board the light runs along, and square cut the board the light shines onto. That way you see any gaps the least, because of the way the light hits them. Coped joints are also forgiving of non-square corners (or can be "adjusted" easily) - mitres aren't.

There are several tricks to doing the coping cut, but there are a raft of how-tos on t'internet, and you don't need power tools. A coping saw is really inexpensive, too. 

You do need to mitre returning corners - there's no other way that I know of - but they're much easier to fit than internal ones. Use a bevel gauge to get the angle the two walls meet at - more likely not to be ninety than to be correct. Halve the angle to get the mitre (do this with compasses on a piece of paper if you can't measure it accurately enough). If you're confident, go for it, otherwise make the wooden mitre slightly more 'pointy' (acute) than the actual wall needs - only by a degree or two at the most. It gives you a thin outside edge you can force together, and will gap at the back, where you can fill it. 

On returning corners traditional skirtings are held by pins, driven through the face to the back end grain on the other board, and at a slight vertical angle. Doing it from both directions locks the corner together, and the pins are hidden beneath the paint and too far from the thin outer edge to split the wood. 

Obviously leave the boards long so you can trim them to length. If you cope the other board (the straight alcove wall), you have leeway to slide the chimney breast board up snug to get the visible mitred corner fitting really tightly. * BZZZT- wrong! * That was a brainstorm! You have to cope the board at the side of the chimney breast, NOT the one at the back of the alcove! That makes it awkward, but at least it's one of the shortest boards in the room so a cock-up isn't a total disaster. I suppose that makes it a 'bishop' (cope _and_ mitre!) - obviously one has to treat all clerics with great respect...

You can't win with the ones on the front - they have to be trimmed right to the fireplace (or across the front if the fireplace has gone), but you have a game chance of getting a good set of corners that way.

Those tall mitre cutting arrangements probably do work, but your best bet while using them is to mark the whole cut accurately and check you're cutting where you expect to be! It's worth investing in a good square (that you've checked *is* square), and a bevel gauge.

Hope that helps,

E.


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## davic (23 Jun 2013)

Eric The Viking":2dom4x8z said:


> Is this actually for cutting skirting boards?
> 
> If so, you only need mitres on "returning" corners, such as the outer corners of chimney breasts where they turn back towards the walls. On internal corners (the four corners of a room, for example), you'll get much more satisfying results by cutting one board square and "coping" (also called scribing) the other one to match it. That's cutting the opposite of the profile of the board into its edge so the coped board fits onto the other board's moulding exactly.
> 
> ...



Hell of a reply that Erik and thanks for taking the time. I am actually making a planter that does not need this sort of joint but I am trying to improve my skill be experimenting. The skirting board was for a size reference. 

I was just wondering about the saw itself. Its a b&q job that cost about £20 and as I said it seems to veer off a bit and was wondering if this is normal?

I am sorry not to make reference to your post more directly but I am a newb and it was a bit above my head


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## Eric The Viking (23 Jun 2013)

That's ok - I was guessing, wrongly as it turns out!

You may struggle to get planters to stay together - mitres are a very weak joint, unless you do something else to the construction to hold them together. If the wood moves with the weather they'll tend to work themselves apart. The long lasting ones I've seen have been frame and panel construction, or variations on that.

Depending on how sharp the saw is, those jigs can tend to follow the grain (if blunt and the wood isn't clamped tightly). Sharp tools, careful setup and measuring are the key things. The sharper the angle, the more you'll be rip cutting rather than cross, and that may be it. You still need a good square to check it has been made properly though, as if it is crooked you'll go mad trying to make it cut straight.


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## baldpate (23 Jun 2013)

I had one of those B&Q jobs which suffered exactly the same problem, a problem I was never able to resolve. On mine it turned out that the rods which guide the saw frame up & down were not exactly vertical. Since the set of these rods was not adjustable, there was nothing I could really do to correct the defect (except give it away & buy something decent). If you have a reasonably accurate square, check this out on your saw. 

Another problem which can arise on these cheap mitre frame saws is the blade-clamping mounting/mechanism. On mine, the blade, when clamped onto the frame, was not absolutely vertical (in fact it was slightly twisted, because the frame wasn't accurately cast/machined). This can also cause the blade to drift off vertical as the cut progresses. However, this is one problem you can fix by carefully shimming the blade.

As Eric mentioned, a sharpish blade is a must. As you got yours of EBay, the blade could well be knackered, which will only add to your problems. 

With all these issues, the deeper the cut, the worse the drift. Actually, I'm surprised your B&Q frame will even theoretically support a cut "2 skirting boards" deep - I didn't think the vertical guides would support that depth.


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Jun 2013)

Yes, much of the problem with cheap and nasty mitre saws is that they're...cheap and nasty.


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## davic (23 Jun 2013)

Thanks for all that. I think it was a lot to ask for a tenner, I might get a cheapy sliding miter from screw fix unless that is throwing good money after bad.


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## Eric The Viking (23 Jun 2013)

Axminster, if they do them. But start with one of their BS standard engineer's squares, so you can check things with confidence.


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## AndyT (23 Jun 2013)

Have a look at a proper Nobex mitre saw at Axminster or elsewhere. There's a good reason why it costs a lot more than the one you bought. 
The cheap ones can be ok for little sections up to about 25 mm thick but if you are cutting skirting it will be 100 to 250 mm deep (depending on the age of your house.)


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## davic (23 Jun 2013)

AndyT":22xmt5i7 said:


> Have a look at a proper Nobex mitre saw at Axminster or elsewhere. There's a good reason why it costs a lot more than the one you bought.
> The cheap ones can be ok for little sections up to about 25 mm thick but if you are cutting skirting it will be 100 to 250 mm deep (depending on the age of your house.)



Yes big difference, I was cutting 140mm. I think I'll probably try this though:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb236m ... 230v/48471

Unless someone wants to talk me out of it. Its a hundred quid gamble I suppose


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## JohnPW (24 Jun 2013)

Or you could use a mitre box.


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## Phil Pascoe (24 Jun 2013)

+1 - easier and a lot cheaper.


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## custard (24 Jun 2013)

Eric The Viking":1lfodevw said:


> Is this actually for cutting skirting boards?
> 
> If so, you only need mitres on "returning" corners, such as the outer corners of chimney breasts where they turn back towards the walls. On internal corners (the four corners of a room, for example), you'll get much more satisfying results by cutting one board square and "coping" (also called scribing) the other one to match it. That's cutting the opposite of the profile of the board into its edge so the coped board fits onto the other board's moulding exactly.
> 
> ...



What a great summary. You should put that in a separate post with the heading "Skirting Board", so that when someone searches they can get the benefit of this explanation.


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## davic (25 Jun 2013)

custard":2h3eqg9u said:


> What a great summary. You should put that in a separate post with the heading "Skirting Board", so that when someone searches they can get the benefit of this explanation.



I have edited the title and hopefully wont get a slap on the wrist for it .... ... .. .

The wood that I cut using this saw is warped along the width of the plank so no saw, not even a top make would be able to do a good job. I think the idea of trying an El Cheapo powered saw might be worth a gamble. Views on this welcome as always


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## rafezetter (25 Jun 2013)

..


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## Eric The Viking (25 Jun 2013)

custard":earlru4e said:


> What a great summary. You should put that in a separate post with the heading "Skirting Board", so that when someone searches they can get the benefit of this explanation.



Very kind, but actually, "what a twit!" 

I'd forgotten that you _can't_ cope the back alcove board, because it shows if it gaps. You have to do the one at the side of the chimney breast! 

I've amended my original post accordingly, and am considering retiring to a Trappist monastery in northern Finland, although even there I might be unable to escape 'bishops' (i.e. old boar(d)s with copes _and_ mitres!).

E. 
("... and always use [ctrl]+Z to exit brainless silly person mode.")


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## Random Orbital Bob (25 Jun 2013)

It wasn't so much a "post" on skirting as a "treatise". That was without question the most fully rounded and complete, yet succinct burst of skirting super experience I've ever seen. Thank you very much. 

To the op......I owned a nobex for years before my first powered chopsaw and they're fabulous along as the blade is sharp. However, they weren't cheap even back then. I would have thought a modern 2nd hand 8" dewalt chopsaw would be the ticket


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## davic (26 Jun 2013)

Indeed, I am liking the 2nd hand dewalt idea too. More for the fact the stands seems to be decent and it's gonna fit


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## Eric The Viking (26 Jun 2013)

davic":2raxid8l said:


> Indeed, I am liking the 2nd hand dewalt idea too. More for the fact the stands seems to be decent and it's gonna fit



Good idea. I mentioned in another post recently: I've mended/serviced a couple of them. The 701/Elu design I'm familiar with is solid, and spares are available. As long as it hasn't been really abused by a previous owner, one you buy s/h ought to be fettle-able fairly easily.

The only ongoing issue I have with them isn't DeWalt's fault really at all. It has a fairly unusual blade diameter (216 or 217mm? - I think it's an Imperial size), and all the DIY/tradesmen's suppliers I've come across put a markup on them, compared to next-smaller and next-larger. Annoying, but not the end of the world. At least you can get them fairly easily. Don't forget that it should be negative rake, for safety reasons (reduces risk of snatching and kickback).

E.


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## davic (17 Jul 2013)

I picked up a single bevel sliding mitre saw from Evolution RAGE3-S linky and on first test it is very good. Used it with my buddy who is a 'real carpenter' and he agreed that it is a pretty good piece of kit.

Made a gate with it yesterday and it works!


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