# Rasps



## EdK (23 May 2009)

Hi,
I'm keen to buy a couple of rasps. I bought a turnip and a 2nd cut from axminster a few years ago and was keen to get something a bit better.

So I've been looking at these :

Dragon
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Files ... Rasps.html

Auriou
http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Rasps.html

I'm trying to work out which of the Dragon ones would be the most useful. I was looking at buying a fine cut double radius (I don't make musical instruments but rather wooden spearguns - perhaps some similarities in some of the shapes) and also a fine cut small rasp from them.

I'm not sure about the large coarse one. Anyone used it ?

I'm also looking at the Auriou ones for more general woodworking / furniture making. Again I am a bit lost with the patterns and the grains... maybe the 10" G9 as suggested onthe site ? (http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Rasps.html)

Again what are most of you using ? (I'll probably buy more over the years but at the prices am keen not to buy something that I'd use marginally !)
Ah... the collection grows....
Ed


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## MIGNAL (23 May 2009)

I have a few of the Chines rasps. The finest one that I have is or rather was very nice. I've had it around 15 years so it's effectiveness is long gone. I did buy some more aggresive cutting Chinese rasps last year but found them a little dissapointing - well at least compared to that fine rasp that I bought all those years ago. I did not buy then from Stewmac so the manufacturer may well be different.
These are also a possibility:

http://www.dick.biz/dick/category/dickc ... detail.jsf

A Violin making friend has several and really likes them. They were bought a couple of decades ago, so who knows they may have changed manufacturer. I'm fairly certain that Herdim is a brand for DickTools and NOT the manufacturer.
He likes the Grain 4 and thinks the finer ones clog too easily. Again this may only apply to the Herdim rasp and perhaps only the Herdin rasp of twenty years ago.
I'd certainly be interested to know what the modern Herdims are like.

The Auriou's are obviously extremely good but the cost mounts, especially if you have 3 or 4 to buy.


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## MIGNAL (23 May 2009)

Another alternative:

http://workshopheaven.com/cgi-bin/cp-ap ... +%26+Files

I have no experience of these particular rasps. If they are decent they just may save you the import duties over the Stewmac ones.


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## Ironballs (23 May 2009)

I got a set recently from Rutlands, a slightly more aggressive cut so will need a bit more finishing but at 30 quid for 5 I'll not complain. Can always get a couple of finer rasps to finish up before moving to sanding


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## woodbloke (23 May 2009)

I use the Chinese rasps from WH...suggest you PM Matthew and ask him what's suitable - Rob


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## Racers (23 May 2009)

Hi, mignal

Over on the Old Tools group they recommend dipping your files and rasps in acid to sharpen them, the brick cleaning stuff is the easiest one to get hold of, you must degrease them first.


Pete


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## wizer (23 May 2009)

What about micro plane rasps. Are they any good? I've only found them on Rutlands.


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## MIGNAL (23 May 2009)

Racers":1966nxz9 said:


> Hi, mignal
> 
> Over on the Old Tools group they recommend dipping your files and rasps in acid to sharpen them, the brick cleaning stuff is the easiest one to get hold of, you must degrease them first.
> 
> ...



Yes I've heard of that. Citric acid is a common one. I've never tried it but I guess there's not a lot to loose. I've got quite a few files I could try as well.
I've been using the Chinese rasps today on (yet) another saw handle reshape. I really don't like the way the aggresive ones cut and the only way I can get any effective use out of my finer one is by using the curved side. That side has obviously been used a lot less than the flat side. Despite being relatively dull it still cuts quite nicely though. I do remember being impressed with it when it was new.


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## Night Train (23 May 2009)

I have one of these Auriou cranked neck curved rasp.

It is really good for filing the hollow of chair seats and curved rails.It reminds me that I lent mine to a student and haven't had it back. However, I do have access to student records and I haven't marked their work yet. :twisted:


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## dunbarhamlin (24 May 2009)

I use a couple of rasps - from grain 3 (fave rapid shaper) to grain 15 Aurious, Dragons, Gaignard-Millon (the sage leaf is particularly nice) and Gramercy.

Of the Dragons, I'd say these are good, except in fluffy woods like Khaya, where I find they clog far more quickly than Auriou/Gramercy/Gaignard-Millon. They all have quite shallow profiles, so better for gentle curves.
Obviously, compared to the Auriou #3 (IIRC previously recommended for soapstone more than wood) even the coarse Dragon is quite gentle.

Matthew's are handy, and great for the price, but a different tool to the above - more like metal sandpaper than cutting tools.

None of the above have any relation to the sheds' "rasps" which I find little better than using a pein hammer to bludgeon the wood into submission.


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## EdK (24 May 2009)

I think I'll buy an Auriou one - if it's 'the best' then I'll have something to compare the others to if/when I end up buying more. Then I can see for myself if they are worth it compared to the others on the market.

Just need to decide on the grain and shape now ?!

Where did you buy the Gramercy one from ? How would you compare the Auriou ones to the Dragon ones ? 

Did you buy the Gaignard-Millon ones from their website ? If so was it easy and good service ? How do these compare to the Auriou ones ?

Ah well, back to building the house now 
Ed


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## dunbarhamlin (24 May 2009)

Hi Ed

Gramercy are the in house brand ffrom Joel at ToolsForWorkingWood.com 
These are stainless steel and so though effective don't feel quite as sharp in use, though closely resemble the French rasps in tooth structure. Less 'handed' than Aurious.

Aurious give a cleaner finish, cut faster and clog less readily than the Dragons, though the shape of the latter makes them good for transitioning from tight to gentle curves.

Last time I bought from Gaignard-Millon, the shopping basket was only set up for Euro-zone shipping, so I contacted them via email and phone. Very helpful, and made the transaction easy in spite of my dreadfully rusty schoolboy French (not one cackle from them - not all Parisians are beastly to linguistically challenged Brits  ) One of them is an anglophone, though I always called at the wrong time to catch him.
These are almost indistinguishable from Aurious, though David at CHT thought the stitching was a little less even.

Just to muddy the waters still further, TheBestThings also offer French hand stitched rasps, made by ex-Auriou employees.


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## Joel Moskowitz (24 May 2009)

dunbarhamlin":2ubcgrqe said:


> Hi Ed
> 
> Gramercy are the in house brand ffrom Joel at ToolsForWorkingWood.com
> These are stainless steel and so though effective don't feel quite as sharp in use, though closely resemble the French rasps in tooth structure. Less 'handed' than Aurious.



AS you say they are effective - but the tooth is initally is stubbier than the auriou. but the stainless is tougher. On tough woods they really shine. On real soft woods the cleaner cut of the Auriou is better. So it depends on what you are doing.


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## Mikey R (25 May 2009)

Im also on the lookout for a good set of rasps.



dunbarhamlin":1c9qix1l said:


> I use a couple of rasps - from grain 3 (fave rapid shaper) to grain 15 Aurious, Dragons, Gaignard-Millon (the sage leaf is particularly nice) and Gramercy.



Thanks for recommending Gaignard-Millon, I had never heard of them. I could be quite tempted with the extra fine sage leaf and a fine cabinet rasp, for much less than the Auriou equivalent.


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## dunbarhamlin (25 May 2009)

Joel Moskowitz":16o1hl4l said:


> On tough woods they really shine. On real soft woods the cleaner cut of the Auriou is better. *So it depends on what you are doing.*


Just so. The four Gramercy rasps I have don't sit languishing in the drawer. Did they cost as much as the Aurious, I'd still want a couple.
I find it useful to have a range of cutting characteristics as well as profiles - just as similar grits in wet 'n' dry and garnet paper are useful to have.


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## EdK (25 May 2009)

Ah, very interesting. So if you had a 'desert islands' scenario which four rasps would you take with you/advise to buy to start with 
Thanks Ed


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## dunbarhamlin (26 May 2009)

Cripes. That really depends on your application. For general use, I suppose:
For roughing out, a grain 3 half round (a round microplane or a Japanese saw rasp would be alternatives)
For detailing, a grain 13 or higher model makers or small cabinet rasp (GM sage leaf would be a good alternative - or shaped sanding sticks)
In between, it depends on the profiles you might need - maybe a 12" moderately aggressive cabinet rasp (grain 8?) and then something half way between that and the detail rasp (a 9" grain 11 perhaps?)
Note that the smaller the rasp, the finer the teeth - so for instance 12" grain 8 is coarser than a 9" grain 8

A note of caution sharpening the French rasps - afaik, all (certainly Aurious) are case hardened, and so won't take very much sharpening. I haven't tried, but Mike Wenzloff has documented using weak acid to sharpen Aurious, but recounts Michel Auriou thinking it a bad idea.


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## Peter Evans (26 May 2009)

Don't overlook flea market files and rasps. You can sharpen them in citric acid (or any acid, but citric is cheap and safe - old battery acid is cheaper... but... ). I did not believe this would work - but even saw taper files resharpen at least once, assuming you have moved onto a new file before the shrieking blunt file has driven you completely insane.

If useful old files and rasps are plentiful in Australia, they must be knee deep at UK flea markets. I guess by now I have a several hundreds across three wooden boxes, many unused, cannot resist the cheap price, which ranges from A$.01 to A$4 for eg an unused Simonds Vixen file/float.

I have an old Italian hand cut rasp that was actually pretty good out of the flea market box, really sharp after acid. When shaping handles I typically start off with a 14" Disston rasp that was revived in citric and then move onto a Nicholson #50 (made before the dive in quality), followed by a small Gramercy rasp which is very nice, and then a mix of files and sand paper strips.

With end grain I find the burnished surface from the file to be the finish.


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## Ironballs (26 May 2009)

I take it back about the Dakota rasps, they're quite rough and left a worse surface than a surform, which is okay. What isn't okay is the rasp coming out of the handle and landing pointy side down on my freshly sanded guitar neck :x 

The expletive was loud and heartfelt and rhymed with you trucking punt


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## EdK (27 May 2009)

Thanks for all the tips and advice, went with the following from Auriou:
G13 7" modellers rasp
G11 10" cabinet rasp
G8 12" cab rasp
G3 12" roughing rasp

And chucked in a dovetail saw from Veritas as it looked 'interesting'...
right shopping over, back to building the house.
Thanks again, now poorer but happier 
Ed


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## wizer (27 May 2009)

Ironballs":1ps8xmav said:


> I take it back about the Dakota rasps, they're quite rough and left a worse surface than a surform, which is okay. What isn't okay is the rasp coming out of the handle and landing pointy side down on my freshly sanded guitar neck :x
> 
> The expletive was loud and heartfelt and rhymed with you trucking punt



I refuse to buy anything with the name Dakota on it.


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## Mike Hancock (28 May 2009)

Whilst not diminishing the skill and expertise of the few remaining French rasp makers it should be pointed out that rasps being touted from The Best Things (USA) as being made by ex-Auriou employees is not accurate. It is perfectly true that some of the stitching is done by an ex-Auriou employee. However it is also perfectly correct to highlight that the forging, heat treatment, grinding and all of the 30 other separate processes involved in making a quality hand stitched rasp are carried out a few hundred miles away by non ex - "Auriouites" 
Auriou rasps are made in house at Forge de Saint Juery in France (visitors most welcome).
I feel it is best that you are correctly informed of the facts.

Thanks Mike


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## paulm (28 May 2009)

Interested in trying citric acid on some old files, does anybody know where would you get it from (other than squeezing lots of lemons I guess :shock: :lol: ) and what sort of concentration to use, how long to leave it soaking etc ?

Thks, Paul


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## woodbloke (28 May 2009)

Ironballs":2imbd7gr said:


> trucking punt


Damian - :lol: :lol: ...hope the neck wasn't too badly dented, least you didn't shove it through the bandsaw  - Rob


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## Jake (28 May 2009)

paulm":1ljrne73 said:


> Interested in trying citric acid on some old files, does anybody know where would you get it from (other than squeezing lots of lemons I guess :shock: :lol: ) and what sort of concentration to use, how long to leave it soaking etc ?
> 
> Thks, Paul



Homebrew suppliers sell it in bulk.

It is probably available at chemists, but they may get funny about it as it is one of the safer things used to cut drugs. 

There's a good Alf thread about the process (for rust removal, but must amount to much the same thing) if you combine Alf and citric acid in a search.


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## dunbarhamlin (28 May 2009)

Mike - thanks for the extra clarification re TBT rasps.

Paul - citric acid can be had from brewing suppliers and from soap making suppliers (ingredient of 'bath bombs')
Are you going to Mike's hand tool event? I've got heaps and could bring some along.
Steve


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## paulm (28 May 2009)

Hi Steve,

Yes, planning to be at West Dean, probably on the Saturday all being well, but might change to Sunday if the weather's dodgy.

Would be great if you were able to bring some along if you're going same day ?

If not, no worries, I'll just hunt down a brewing emporium somewhere  

Cheers, Paul


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## Ironballs (28 May 2009)

Rob, I have a series of small indentations, thankfully it's on the back near the heel and will be having grain filler, paint and lacquer applied to it, so should largely disappear.

I was bloody annoyed though, but at least had the presence of mind to check the neighbours kids weren't out before unleashing my verbal torrent.

I do however have some lovely squared oak stickers that for some reason have some half lap joints cut into them. They weren't spared the bandsaw


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## MIGNAL (28 May 2009)

Plenty of Citric Acid on Ebay.
For those who are wanting the 'recipe' :

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthrea ... 359&page=2


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## EdK (29 May 2009)

Well they are out of stock of 'the hog' until October (metal stock issues according to Alex at CHT).
The rest should be on the way  which is good as I need a change of materials from plasterboard to wood.. should be less dusty 
Thanks for all the advice again and good luck for those cooking rasps with acid. Remember to wear protection (no, not that sort). I treat acid and molten lead with the utmost caution - a splash of either could be bad.
Take care - Ed


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## Peter Evans (29 May 2009)

Here are some old notes of mine.

http://www.tttg.org.au/php/tttg_Page.php?n=15&a=28

A good source is suppliers to cleaners - CA is used to clean and protect stainless steel.


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## paulm (28 Jun 2009)

Thanks to Steve for bringing along a big bag of citric acid to West Dean a few weeks ago. 

Must have looked like a drugs deal being done, looked just like those bags of dodgy stuff on CSI and the like :shock: :lol: 

Used some a while back and left three old files soaking for about 48 hours then rinsed them well, gave them a good scrub with the file card and a soaking with WD40.

Would have left them soaking longer but swmbo was complaining about the smell and about them being in the way in the utility room :roll: 

Well impressed with the results, given my old man's files a new lease of life.

What prompted me to remember to post was that I've just been in the workshop earlier today and thought I would turn up a couple of new handles to match some I made for some new files a while ago. 

A simple job but quite satisfying, the first coat of danish oil is drying off, then I'll give another later or might just go straight to some wax and a buff, they are only file handles I suppose :roll: :lol: 

Will post some pic's later in the day when done.

Thanks again Steve, and to the others for the advice and guidance also :wink: 

Cheers, Paul


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## paulm (28 Jun 2009)

Some pic's as promised, don't know why really, not very exciting :roll: Note to self, must get out more :lol: 

The top two are new from Workshop Heaven, the bottom two are the refurbed oldies, all handles turned from some old sideboard legs  












Cheers, Paul


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jun 2009)

Very nice, Paul 8) Have you sharpened those planes yet :-k :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## paulm (28 Jun 2009)

I reckon it was just your poor technique Paul :lol: 

They are all nice and shiny again now, no fingerprints and shavings to spoil them :wink: :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## Tony Spear (28 Jun 2009)

Very nice too!

Now all you need to do is learn how to sharpen your Dad's old files!


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## ProShop (28 Jun 2009)

"Wow", that citric acid brought those old brass planes up well paul  .


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## paulm (29 Jun 2009)

ProShop":jloz4mts said:


> "Wow", that citric acid brought those old brass planes up well paul  .



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## dunbarhamlin (29 Jun 2009)

Good to hear it worked well, Paul.
Brushing off the gunk once in a while will speed the process some, and if need be, add some salt to pep up the mix (much less unpleasant way to get weak HCl than eating bad shellfish)
Cheers
Steve


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