# First workshop build



## dlowry_uk

Hello,
Having read several build threads and gotten some advice from members, I plan to start my build in the next couple of weeks. I'll give a brief spec in this first post, as I know there will be things to modify/improve. Also, there are aspects I really don't know much about ie roof truss dimensions, how best to fit windows etc. I'm hoping experienced members will weigh in and help me out 

Local planning regs here (France) allow me a structure of 20m2, max height of 3.2m, as long as its 1m from neighbours boundaries and 20m from the road. I've had a 5m x 4m slab laid, 100mm deep, strengthened round the edges with concrete blocks. 

For the wall structure, I plan to follow the scheme in Mike Garnhams's post https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/build-a-shed-mike-s-way-t39389.html.

2 courses of brick, with DPC on top (I'm ordering a Brickytool - never layed bricks before...)
sole-plate 45 x 95 (all dims mm, these are the French equivalent of 2 x 4's)
wall framing 45 x 95, 400mm centres (I'm assuming 400 as I will only put ply/OSB on the inside, with cladding over Tyvek on the outside, or can I get away with 600mm centres?)
outer cladding on 45 x 22 battens, leaving ventilation gap
inner skin 12mm OSB or ply
suitable insluation between studs.

There will be a double door in 1 gable wall, and 2 windows along 1 side. I'll put doubled 45 x 95 headers over partial studs for these. If roof trusses don't align with studs, I'll add a 45 x 95 top plate all round. I will also fit a floating floor over insulation boards, as in Dick's build 






Now - the roof  Have I made a major gaffe by deciding on 5 x 4m, rather than something like 6 x 3.3m? I've seen links in several threads to sites which calculate rafter dimensions for a given span/rise etc, but can't find anything similar on trusses. I had intended making up trusses myself, using the glued+screwed plywood gusset approach, but have no idea what dimension of timber I should use, or even the design of the truss. I intend to sheath with 10mm OSB and fit asphalt shingles. One option is simply to give the specs to the local supplier and have them make up the trusses. The saving in time and assurance that they'll be structurally sound may be worth the cost - haven't investigated that yet.

Also, with the 3.2m restriction and a 4m span, I could end up with lowish walls...

say pitch angle of 22.5deg (easy for the mitre saw). 
rise over 2m = 0.828m
add rafter thickess = 0.120m (guess)
add cladding = 0.01m
total roof height approx 950mm

Leaves a wall height of 2.25m, say 2.2m to allow a small margin. I think thats OK - but is 22.5deg enough for the roof?

I hope thats not too much info for a first post

Regards,
Drew


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## buffalobill

Hi sounds like you made a good plan look forward to follow this.
Your wall framing is ok with 600 mm center if you put osb on the inside, if you are afraid of lowish walls maybe is better to go for rafters insted of trusses then you get a bit more headspace.
If you want to make the trusses yourself i think it will do with 1.5 x4 for a small building like this if you make them what we call w trusses.
22.5 is ok for the roof but check with the manufacture of the aspalth shingles what they recomend as a minimum pitch for the roof.
Looking forward to see some pic when you get started (hammer)


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## dlowry_uk

buffalobill":3c7jm9h6 said:


> Hi sounds like you made a good plan look forward to follow this.
> 
> If you want to make the trusses yourself i think it will do with 1.5 x4 for a small building like this if you make them what we call w trusses.



You mean like this?





I've got 4 weeks holiday coming up soon, so won't start until then. But I'll try to post updates (with pics) as I go along. I'll undoubtedly need some help along the way.


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## buffalobill

Yes is whats called w trusses


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## lincs1963

They are called 'fink trusses'.


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## dlowry_uk

Hello,
Do openings in gable walls need the same arrangement of header and support studs as those in side walls? I'm using roof trusses, so presumably most of the roof weight is transferred to the side walls via the truss chords, with very little on the gable walls. I've drawn up initial plans with all openings treated the same way just to be on the safe side, and it doesn't use that much more wood in my case - just curious.

Drew


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## buffalobill

no you dont need header and support studs in the gables you dont have any load there


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## Benchwayze

dlowry_uk":vqgjlyld said:


> Local planning regs here (France) allow me a structure of 20m2, max height of 3.2m, as long as its 1m from neighbours boundaries and 20m from the road.
> 
> Drew



Hi DL,

It seems from the above, that in France you can't have a decent sized shed, if you live on a housing estate, with tiny gardens. That's a bit draconian? 

My house is on the corner of two streets and my garden is as close as 4 feet from the road in places. Thus, if my house was in France I couldn't have a shed at all. 

Here, (With Building Regs knowledge) I can build a brick-built shop, up to a quarter the area of my whole plot, with the only stipulation that it must be 20 metres from the nearest neighbouring house. As it happens I could comply with that. But it's too late now to go to the expense. 

I think there are advantages to living in the West Midlands after all!


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## Halo Jones

> My house is on the corner of two streets and my garden is as close as 4 feet from the road in places. Thus, if my house was in France I couldn't have a shed at all.



If you were in Scotland from a few months ago (they recently changed the law :twisted: ) then you would have needed planning permission (I know I had to apply!) but you see it not being appiled all over the place. I think it might be the same in England. From memory the stipulation was something like if your shed (or "outbuilding") was nearer a road than your property and the road was less than 20m away then planning permission was required.

I had two small sheds in the same place as my new BIG (ie 3x4m) shed and the first thing the planning officer said to me on my initial enquiry when I said I wanted to replace the sheds was " when were these sheds erected?". My automatic response was "more than four years ago"! I still had to give them £150 for planning approval.

H.


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## dlowry_uk

> It seems from the above, that in France you can't have a decent sized shed, if you live on a housing estate, with tiny gardens. That's a bit draconian?



Thats the maximum allowed without full planning permission. Also, it depends on the local authority, so regs tend to vary depending on location. Even so, anything over 2sqm has to be declared to the town hall, and the area gets added to my propery tax :evil: 

Not surprisingly, with their customary French respect for authority, most people here just build what they want, and as long as its not outrageous, the local authority generally turns a blind eye. In my case, as I eventually want to use it as commercial premises, I kind of have to go by the book from the start...


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## Cegidfa

Hello Drew,

My door openings (from the brick to underside of frame are 1900. Then with the frame and top plate, that's a max of 2m, thus clawing a bit more angle for the roof.
All provided that you aren't more than six feet tall that is :wink: It works for me, and was the only way to stop the roof looking too squat.
I used 150 x 48 for my roof trusses, and don't be afraid to make your own. Glued and screwed, they end up pretty strong, not to mention a lot cheaper.  
As your build is no wider than mine, and given the type of truss, you may well be able to use smaller timber as suggested by Bill. After all, factory made trusses are made with very lightweight timber. Don't forget to use the floor to assemble them - a very handy space indeed. Not forgetting - use the first (having checked that it fits) as a jig for the rest.
With respect to the tiling, I think from memory that 22.5° is just acceptable for asphalt tiles, but check several different manufacturers' sites first - they do vary. 
As to working out the rise and run, sketchup is your friend. If you haven't used it yet, the learning curve is as steep as your roof  and well worth the effort for this sort of thing.

Good luck..Onwards and err...upwards.

Dick.
PS. You won't regret the cost of the insulated floor, it's very friendly on the feet. 
Don't forget to get the high density stuff specifically for floor usage, not wall insulation.


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## dlowry_uk

At long last, things are under way. Here are a few photos of today's efforts. 






5m x 4m slab, concrete blocks, DPM and bottom plate fitted. I got professionals in to lay the slab, but am doing the rest myself. These are hollow blocks, so at the corners and every 2nd block along each wall, I partially filled with concrete before laying, to give a fixing base for frame anchors for the bottom plate. I didn't think about having ties embedded in the slab, and I'm unsure whether to bolt ties into the slab now. Also, since the anchors pierce the DPM, I made liberal use of silicone in and around the holes, hoping that will minimize damp problems (I'm new at this game...).






First wall up. I have no help, so each wall will have 2 subframes to keep things manageable.






First day's work, 2 walls up. Not having done this before, I started with the 2 walls with no window or door openings to get into the swing of it.

Thanks for looking,
Drew

Today's lesson - unless you _really_ like the taste of sawdust, take careful note of wind direction before firing up the mitre saw in the garden...


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## buffalobill

Looking good and nice sized will be a great workshop when finished.
Just a small tip look my drawing it is supposed to be the studs seen from above if you do like this in the corners will save you alot of work later when you start inside.
Looking forward to follow this build keep the fotos coming


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## dlowry_uk

buffalobill":1t0jpuki said:


> Looking good and nice sized will be a great workshop when finished.
> Just a small tip look my drawing it is supposed to be the studs seen from above if you do like this in the corners will save you alot of work later when you start inside.
> Looking forward to follow this build keep the fotos coming



Yep, I've already done that for the first corner, although I may have taken the last photo before it was fitted - its not really visible. Thanks for the tip anyhow!

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

3rd side up. Took me a bit longer, with 2 windows to frame.


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## andyacg

only 3 sides up and already ive got workshop envy !


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## dlowry_uk

Latest photo with wall framing done. Well, I need to cut the bottom plate spanning the door opening, and I may add a few noggins, but basically done.






I need some advice on the next step. I'd planned on moving onto the roof trusses, leaving OSB sheathing etc until I have the roof done. Is there any reason I should sheath the walls and wrap first?

Thanks
Drew


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## plug

Put the osb on first it will stenghten the stucture up and stop the wall from moving out of plumb.
Can't see any bracing on walls.


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## dlowry_uk

plug":135lzi16 said:


> Put the osb on first it will stenghten the stucture up and stop the wall from moving out of plumb.
> Can't see any bracing on walls.



Do you mean temporary diagonal bracing to hold everything plumb? I'll do that before fitting the OSB, plus a brace across the top.

I also need to change the doubled top plate on one of the long sides. I'd run out of good straight timber, so tried using a slightly warped length, but it warps the whole wall from the top, and I can't straighten it. So, I'll have to lap-join 2 or 3 straight offcuts.

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

The frame is squared and braced.




It took me all day, partly because it was trickier than I'd anticipated, and partly due to it being 32 deg in the shade here, which may have slowed me down a bit 

Here are a couple of photos of my frame-squarer-upper device (patent pending), without which I couldn't have squared the structure on my own.









Screw one end of a batten firmly to the top corner of the frame. Screw a framing offcut to the other end with a single screw so it can pivot, positioned so it locks on the frame towards the bottom. Whack the offcut until the frame is pulled square, or a little beyond to allow for springback, and attach the braces. Worked very well.

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

Made a start on the OSB. The window cutouts are done, so should get finished easily tomorrow. I invested in a Makita plunge saw with guide rails specifically for this, and it was well worth it.












Drew


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## Charlie Woody

Looking very good ... well done!


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## dlowry_uk

With the OSB sheathing on, I made a start on the roof trusses. I used 2 x 4 timber , with 12mm OSB for the gussets, glued and screwed.






I decided to use fink trusses for the added strength, although the gussets are a pain to cut. I made a "master" set of all components, and use them to prepare batches of parts, generally enough for 3 trusses which is about all I can make in a full day. I need 9 in total, so 3 or 4 good days should do it, weather permitting. 

Drew


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## Cegidfa

Morning Drew,

Isn't it amazing how fast this part of the build comes together (said Dick, who still hasn't finally finished his build)   
You have done a grand job so far, and the fink trusses look fine. Using this method will make the roof assembly fly as well - it is so satisfying.
Having done this kind of roof, can I offer some advice (that you might have already decided on) When errecting the trusses, use a pair of stopblocks that you either screw or clamp in place to position the trusses accurately. Then you can just slide them into position and not have to struggle. Also, if you make the blocks L shaped, once the truss is in position, you can immediately clamp the truss to it for stability - very handy if windy, or working on your own. We also had another L shaped bracket cut to the truss spacing that we clamped to the top of the adjacentt truss so that the next truss could be slid into place and held upright whilst clamping - I hope that makes sense. That is how we two old farts managed to make a heavy and awkward job into an easy one.  

So keep up the the good work, and best wishes for a speedy conclusion.

Oh yes, and I am deeply envious of you neatly stacked and very large wood pile   

Regards...Dick.


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## dlowry_uk

Cegidfa":hvj0xh30 said:


> Morning Drew,
> 
> Isn't it amazing how fast this part of the build comes together (said Dick, who still hasn't finally finished his build)
> You have done a grand job so far, and the fink trusses look fine. Using this method will make the roof assembly fly as well - it is so satisfying.
> Having done this kind of roof, can I offer some advice (that you might have already decided on) When errecting the trusses, use a pair of stopblocks that you either screw or clamp in place to position the trusses accurately. Then you can just slide them into position and not have to struggle. Also, if you make the blocks L shaped, once the truss is in position, you can immediately clamp the truss to it for stability - very handy if windy, or working on your own. We also had another L shaped bracket cut to the truss spacing that we clamped to the top of the adjacentt truss so that the next truss could be slid into place and held upright whilst clamping - I hope that makes sense. That is how we two old farts managed to make a heavy and awkward job into an easy one.
> 
> So keep up the the good work, and best wishes for a speedy conclusion.
> 
> Oh yes, and I am deeply envious of you neatly stacked and very large wood pile
> 
> Regards...Dick.



Hi Dick,
Thanks for the kind words. The framing does go up quickly, but things are starting to slow down a bit now I'm onto the roof structure. With the weather we've been having, I'd like to get a roof on asap, as the OSB has already had several good soakings. I didn't see the point of wrapping the walls without the roof on, as rain would just get behind the wrap and take longer to dry out, so I'll fit the wrap after.

Thanks for the tip on fitting the trusses  I'd been thinking about it, and had decided to use stop blocks, but hadn't thought of making them L-shaped for clamping. I'll also try the top spacer. How did you ensure the final structure was plumb? I'd thought of using 2 lengths of 2x4 with notches at the truss positions. The idea is to slot them over the trusses near the top, 1 on each side, so the set of trusses is tied temporarily. Then I set the end-truss plumb and attach bracing along the bottom of the rafters to hold everything in place. Does that make sense? 

Don't remind me about the woodpile. it took me 3 days to stack, and I still have to chainsaw half of it for this winter - they're 50cm logs, and our stove doesn't take anything bigger than 30cm. Never mind, keeps me off the streets 

Regards
Drew


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## Cegidfa

Hi Drew,

Your method of holding the trusses upright sounds good to me. Even though the first truss will be set as perfect as can be, beware - drifting can take place, so check the trusses with a long level at regular intervals...to be sure. But to be honest..a slight deviation won't make a jot of difference to the end result - it will just dent your personal idea of 'perfection. :shock: 
I think of myself as a 'failed perfectionist'. In that, I try to do my absolute best, but know that it won't be perfect..but it will still be better because I tried.   

Regards...Dick.


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## dlowry_uk

9 trusses neatly stacked and ready to install =D> 






I'm glad that's done - gets repetitive after the first 2 or 3 :wink: 

The top one is a gable-end, where I've already attached the exterior sheathing. Makes it a bit heavier to manhandle, but much easier to measure and install on the ground than up a stepladder. 

Drew


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## neilyweely

DL

This is absolutely great for me, as I am about to start doin exactly the same, in essence. I will be building 'mikes way' but thats not far off what you have done anyway, if at all.
What will you be doing for insulation? Did you get the electrics ready yet? And will you be using the roof space for storage?

Thankyou so much

Neil

PS - how did you do the concrete floor? Did you go down the full distance? Its so tempting to cut corners here, I even considered building it all on posts/slabs/something else


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## dlowry_uk

Hi Neil,
Glad that you find it of interest! I also strongly recommend you look at Cegidfa's thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/new-workshop-build-with-a-difference-t44368.html which has been of great help to me.



> What will you be doing for insulation?


Probably rockwool or similar for the walls, as it is supposed to have good acoustic insulation properties as well. Not sure yet how I'm insulating the roof. Although I'm using trusses, I want to keep the roofspace at least partially open for storage (see below), which complicates things. I intend to put a floating floor over insulation boards, as referenced at the start of the thread. 



> Did you get the electrics ready yet?


Apart from having conduits installed when the slab was laid, no. I'm not overly familiar with the French system, but I'm lucky to have a friendly local guitar-maker with a huge workshop who will advise me on electrics when the time comes.



> And will you be using the roof space for storage?


Yes, I want to partially cover the bottom chords of the trusses with loft flooring, probably a strip around the outside, leaving an open access area in the middle. The plan is to use that for wood storage, and also to install worklights etc. Not completely sure how that will work out. The design is still evolving as I go along...



> how did you do the concrete floor?


I didn't! That was one job I decided I wasn't confident enough to tackle, so had it done by professionals. They laid a border of hollow concrete blocks, then hardcore, dampproof membrane (not sure if they protected it with sand, I only found out after that should be done...), then 100mm of concrete, also filling the blocks, which gives a good foundation for the weight of the walls.

Good luck with your build, look forward to seeing photos!

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

With a helping hand, the roof trusses were installed in an afternoon.

First the gable-ends...






I then ran stringlines between the rafter ends to help aligning the interior trusses. I pretty much followed the procedure outlined by Dick (cegidfa). I screwed stopblocks at the truss position and clamped a longer stop to the top of the previous truss. The truss to be installed is then hung inverted, raised against the stops with a batten, and clamped to the stops. Its then aligned and screwed. To speed things up I'd pre-drilled as much as possible. 

Here you can see the stops in position ready for the next truss.






And the final result!






The gable-ends are braced to prevent take-off if a wind gets up, and I now need to plumb and brace the whole structure.

Drew


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## wallace

Thats a mighty fine looking workshop, makes my little box of an extension look positively poltry  
Nice work
Mark


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## dlowry_uk

Today I plumbed and braced the trusses. As I aim to tile the roof, I also added a ridge to provide a fixing base for the ridgetiles. It has the added bonus of stiffening everything up and holding plumb. I'll eventually remove the temporary bracing on the underside of the rafters.











regards
Drew


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## dlowry_uk

I got half the roof panelled this afternoon.






The "roof-ladder" is actually part of an attempt to extend the roof to provide an eave at the gables. It didn't work out, so I'll do without, but it made a sturdy (aka heavy...) roof ladder, once I screwed on a stop.






I should get the other half done tomorrow, then its out with the breathable wrap. I managed the panels myself as it was dead calm today, but will probably need a helper to get the wrap on neatly.

Regards,
Drew


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## buffalobill

Hi drew 
Its looking very good your shed (hammer) keep the pictures coming.
If you want to extend the roof in the gabels you can do it with the roof laths and nail a bit of 2x4 on the underside. just cut the 2x4 the length you want the overhang and nail it to the roof laths.

vidar


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## dlowry_uk

Mark and Vidar, thanks for the comments  
I got the breathable membrane on the roof yesterday evening with a couple of helpers, and aim to finish wrapping the walls today, with some pics to come later. I've had a good run of weather this past week, but its due to break over the weekend, so I want to get the structure covered to give at least some protection from the rain.

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

I finished the breathable wrap, apart from taping the joins on the roof - ran out of tape 






Although we fixed the wrap nice and tight on the roof last night, its wrinkled up quite a lot in today's heat, is that likely to cause a problem? The gable ends look untidy, but its just some overlap I left to allow for a small gable extension, stapled temporarily to stop it flapping too much.

Not sure what to do next. I have my windows, so could go ahead and install them, or continue with roofing.

Regards,
Drew


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## billybuntus

Looking good. I'd stick the roof on to keep the weather out. The rest can be done when you are ready.

Make sure you allow enough overhang for your finished exterior cladding or whatever your applying.


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## dlowry_uk

We've had heavy rain for the first time since I got the wrap on. I noticed wet patches on the inside of the blocks and on the floor. It seems water is wicking right through the blocks. Is this to be expected? I was planning to lay dampproof sheeting on the concrete, bonded to the DPM on top of the blocks, but I didn't expect to see quite so much water ingress through the blocks. 

Is there anything I can apply to the outside of the blocks to reduce seepage, as they seem to soak water up like a sponge at the moment?

Regards,
Drew


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## Dibs-h

dlowry_uk":o6vt8wwz said:


> Is there anything I can apply to the outside of the blocks to reduce seepage, as they seem to soak water up like a sponge at the moment?
> 
> Regards,
> Drew



What kind of blocks are you using? 7N or 3.5N ones - or something else?

I'd be tempted to reduce the ground level around the perimeter - got to be worth a punt as it don't cost much.

Dibs

p.s. As someone said - I'd finish the roof before fitting the windows.


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## dlowry_uk

> What kind of blocks are you using? 7N or 3.5N ones - or something else?



Something else, I'd say. I used these hollow lightweight blocks






which were recommended by local builders merchants here (France) for things like garage walls etc. The classification system seems different here - they're classed as B40, meaning they'll support a pressure of 40 bar, not sure what that's equivalent to in the UK.



> I'd be tempted to reduce the ground level around the perimeter - got to be worth a punt as it don't cost much.



Ground level is already at least 50mm below the top of the slab all round ie 50mm below the mortar line of the blocks. I think the problem is that the slab is not exactly square, so in some places it extends a few cm beyond the blocks, leaving a small plinth where water can gather.

Drew


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## Dibs-h

dlowry_uk":n30xszfx said:


> Ground level is already at least 50mm below the top of the slab all round ie 50mm below the mortar line of the blocks. I think the problem is that the slab is not exactly square, so in some places it extends a few cm beyond the blocks, leaving a small plinth where water can gather.
> 
> Drew



Either cut it back if you can with say a Stihl or apply a fillet of mortar (the cementious slurry type products may not be available there) at the joint. My money is the water is coming in along the mortar bed - i.e. between block and base. The fillet option is probably easier.

The cementious slurry product I used - I'll have to have a look in the "shed", I think I had some left over. It came in 2 parts - a fine powder that you mixed up by hand in small quantities and "pressed" into the mortar line (which you could use to then also form a fillet at the base) and another that you mixed up like thin plaster and brushed on (which you might not need).

HIH

Dibs


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## Mcluma

Did you backfill the blocks with concrete or are they still holow?


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## Dibs-h

Mcluma":2xeo3w0x said:


> Did you backfill the blocks with concrete or are they still holow?



I reckon they are left hollow - the Yanks have almost identical ones & I've seen them laid with no backfill.

Dibs


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## dlowry_uk

I filled every other block with concrete to give a solid base for the bottom plate, but generally they are left hollow by local builders - mainly because they lay them "face-up", so its not possible to backfill.


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## dlowry_uk

> What kind of blocks are you using? 7N or 3.5N ones - or something else?



Basically equivalent to 3.5N. The B40 code means they support 40bar, which is 4N/mm2, if that sheds any further light...


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## Mcluma

The reason is aks is because these blocks are as leaky as hell, they are used in europe as a building block to add later on render. hence the rough surface.

so having not backfilled them means they are very leaky

to proof the point, take a block that you have left over and pour some water over it, you will see it will go straight through it

they have great insulation value, as when used in a building they will add thermal concrete sheets on the outside and then render

so make them waterproof, you have to add a render, or put some bitumen paint on it, like they do in france on the outside of pre-cast cellers


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## dlowry_uk

Mcluma":3axnrqzc said:


> The reason is aks is because these blocks are as leaky as hell, they are used in europe as a building block to add later on render. hence the rough surface.
> 
> so having not backfilled them means they are very leaky
> 
> to proof the point, take a block that you have left over and pour some water over it, you will see it will go straight through it
> 
> they have great insulation value, as when used in a building they will add thermal concrete sheets on the outside and then render
> 
> so make them waterproof, you have to add a render, or put some bitumen paint on it, like they do in france on the outside of pre-cast cellers



That would explain it  Ok, I suppose the good news is I haven't done anything outrageously stupid, and it can be fixed. The easiest for me would be bitumen paint, assuming its readily available around here. 

Thanks to all who replied,

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

Hi,
Here's a taster of how the roof will look eventually







This was basically a little trial just to see how things fit. I already did a full test row, as I'd dimensioned the roof just from the tile spec sheet. Luckily, eveything seems good - no cuts need at the ends, and a good overhang for the guttering. I'll put that down to 30% planning and 70% beginners luck 8) 

Now, I'm no roofer, so I need some advice on how best to proceed. For safety, I'd prefer to have battens for my feet at all times rather than clambering about on the tiled surface. So, I'd thought about fitting the top row of tiles on each side of the ridge and fitting the ridge first, then work right to left for the main surface, either in a diagonal as in the photo, or laying a vertical row at a time, whinh might make it easier to keep everything in line. Only drawback is fitting the next-to- last row under the top one, but should be doable I think?

I guess this isn't the normal procedure, but I see more advantages than drawbacks for me as a complete novice:

1) It sets a full row properly aligned on each side as a reference.
2) It avoids messing about on the tiled surface with heavy ridge tiles.
3) I'm using a dry-fit system for the ridgetiles, with an adhesive roll like this






which both ventilates the ridge and prevents water ingress from below. Again, easier to fit without all the main roof in place.

Advice from roofing experts welcome, as this is something I'm not overly confident about...

Oddly, I used to be a rock-climber/alpinist, but this seems to have made me more aware of the potential for disaster from even small falls rather than making me confident scrambling about on this little roof, hence the concern to find a way to keep good footholds available throughout. Maybe I should dig out my old gear and rope up 

Regards
Drew


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## dlowry_uk

My roofing problem was resolved by having a neighbour whose son is a roofer, and who offered to do it for free - I'm the one offering encouragement from the ladder...






He did 3/4 of the roof in less than a day, and I also have the security of knowing it's being done properly.




I'd never make it as a roofer's labourer though... :? 

Regards
Drew


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## Mcluma

I like using these tiles as you can push them up, so you can easily get to the top

has the ridge been done now?


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## dlowry_uk

> has the ridge been done now?



Hi Chris,
No, he prefers to tile both sides completely and do the ridge last, so I'm hoping it'll be done tomorrow. At least I learned how to measure and mark out the roof, if I ever have to do it again.

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

I started fulltime training with a guitar-builder at the end of september, so things have slowed considerably on the workshop. The roof is now finished though, which is a major milestone. I also put 2 coats of black bitumen paint on the blockwork to waterproof it, and have fitted the first window. I've started battening for the cladding, which I'm ordering this week. I hope to fit the remaining 2 windows this weekend, then start on the cladding, as I'd like to get the outside more or less weatherproofed for the winter.






Drew


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## flying haggis

Could you carry the battens down further ie across the block work so that the cladding will sheild the blockwork. 

Also, just a thought but if you kicked the very bottom of the battens out enough would the rain thet runs down the cladding (I am assuming the cladding is horizontal) miss the slab and drop onto the ground


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## Cegidfa

Hello Drew,

The roof looks as if it has been done by a pro....  
F H’s suggestion is a good one, and it would add ’interest’ to the look of the workshop.
To get the best out of the cladding, do paint all round (if you are coating that is). It extends the life of the cladding - the Americans have done this for a long time now, and they are the timberframe experts.

What branch of lutherie grabs you; steel string acoustic, classical, or being in France - Selmer or Maccaferri style jazz models? Or all of them.  

Below is a Martin style lookalike that I started long ago and will be the first project when the build is completed.






Bon chance with the training. I look forward to your first WIP. 

Regards....Dick.


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## dlowry_uk

flying haggis":17f21d9h said:


> Could you carry the battens down further ie across the block work so that the cladding will sheild the blockwork.
> 
> Also, just a thought but if you kicked the very bottom of the battens out enough would the rain thet runs down the cladding (I am assuming the cladding is horizontal) miss the slab and drop onto the ground



I'm following local guidelines for cladding, which recommend that it should start at least 20cm from ground level. The battens do extend beyond the edge of the blockwork to allow the first board to overlap the top of the blocks, so runoff will not drip directly onto them. Obviously rain will hit the blockwork in windy conditions, but it won't have a waterfall from the cladding. Insect mesh at top and bottom of the battens should stop the beasties invading as well, I hope.



> What branch of lutherie grabs you; steel string acoustic, classical, or being in France - Selmer or Maccaferri style jazz models? Or all of them.



Mainly steelstring acoustic, although the first guitar I made was a nylon-string - not a classical, but a "crossover", basically a nylon-strung guitar for non-classical players. Here's muggins with the finished article in a proper luthier's workshop...








> Below is a Martin style lookalike that I started long ago and will be the first project when the build is completed.



Looks good! Be sure to post pics when you get round to finishing it 

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

Latest progress - fitted the windows and made good progress on the larch cladding, despite the sleet and hail this weekend :roll: 






Larch is surprisingly hard - I bent a few stainless steel nails before deciding to predrill. I'll also make the window, door and corner trim from ripped lengths of cladding, and hope to use it on the outside of the double doors.


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## flying haggis

Looks good to me


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## jumps

looks great to me - been following thread with great interest as I will be building 'something' on a recently cleared corner, and this wall structure looks just right (although the roofing looks a little over my budget).


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## Mcluma

Cann't see it properly, but did you leave yourselve enough space to do the window trim?, i alos like to do the corners first with a rabat, so it leaves a wind and rain tight corner


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## dlowry_uk

Mcluma":jn1bd859 said:


> Cann't see it properly, but did you leave yourselve enough space to do the window trim?, i alos like to do the corners first with a rabat, so it leaves a wind and rain tight corner



I left room for a sill and casing around each window. I'm not sure what you mean by a rabat at the corners. However, I stapled a vertical strip of impermeable wrap on the battens at each corner as additional weatherproofing, so any water ingress can run off even before getting to the inner wrap on the OSB. I'll then close the corners with trim. I guess the cladding won't be completely watertight at the corners, but that's why I sheathed with OSB and wrapped it completely with breathable membrane, all joints taped.


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## Cegidfa

Hello Drew,

The cladding is looking good; are you going to leave it to weather naturally;
and will you be making the doors yourself? 
I glued up the first half of the 'front' doors for my build yesterday, and will do the second today.

Your guitar has a very 'clean and crisp' look about it. What finish did you use?

Regards.......Dick.


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## dlowry_uk

Cegidfa":vz0nke6n said:


> Hello Drew,
> 
> The cladding is looking good; are you going to leave it to weather naturally;
> and will you be making the doors yourself?
> I glued up the first half of the 'front' doors for my build yesterday, and will do the second today.
> 
> Your guitar has a very 'clean and crisp' look about it. What finish did you use?
> 
> Regards.......Dick.



Hi Dick,
Yes, I'll leave the larch to weather naturally. Its naturally resistant, similar to red cedar, and should weather eventually to a silver-grey colour. I may stain the corner and window trim to match the windows and bargeboards though. 

Originally I intended to make the doors myself, with cladding over a frame made from wall-framing leftovers. However, I'm not sure how to get a good airtight seal all round, so am having second thoughts. In any case, that won't be before next spring. I just want to get the cladding done and put temporary doors to make it weatherproof for the winter, as I can't afford to carry on fitting out the inside just now.

For the guitar, I went for the simplest finish for the first attempt. No pore-filler, 4 basecoats, then sanded and 2 topcoats of matte varnish, so no polishing required. 

Drew


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## dlowry_uk

Sorry to resurrect such an old post, but just thought I'd update since the build is almost done. Finally got the door fitted, so the outside is now completed. 





Inside, I've insulated with wood-fibre panels and sheathed the walls with chipboard, and am in the process of doing the same for the roof. The floor has PVC DPM which wraps up the breezeblocks to meet the DPM I installed when building the frame, so the interior is completely proofed. Then a layer of foam insulation normally used for laminate flooring, and a floating floor of 18mm tongue & groove chipboard, which I'll varnish before fitting out. I'd have preferred more insulation on the floor, but I'm already limited on headroom.





I hope to finish roof insulation and boarding this week, then its electrics, benches etc.

Drew


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## Cegidfa

Hi Drew,

I wouldn't worry about the 'resurrection'. My build hasn't moved on any either. There are just too many other things to do.
The 'Lutherie' den is looking good though. Those hinges look very like the ones used on uPVC doors - they have adjustment in all planes which is very handy.

Regards...Dick.... Who has just finished three days pick axing 20 square metres of ground to remove Rubus roots about 20mm thick at times....knackered. :evil:


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## dlowry_uk

Couple of photos to mark a workshop milestone. I finished the electrics and installed the first machine - the new FB510 bandsaw from Felder. I've set it up and done a few test cuts, but won't start anything serious until I have dust extraction installed.









Regards,
Drew


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## devonwoody

Your whole project displays quality, very nice.

Work bench your first project?


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## dlowry_uk

devonwoody":trrro1f6 said:


> Your whole project displays quality, very nice.
> 
> Work bench your first project?


Thanks for the kind words. Yep, workbench is next, but will take a while due to work commitments. I'll be sure to post pics when its done though


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## dlowry_uk

Almost 6 months since my last post on the workshop thread, but this will probably be the last. I'm waiting for a couple more machines to be delivered (bench drill press and planer/thicknesser), and need to install PVC ducting for the cyclone instead of swapping a flexihose between machines, but its good to finally be making stuff in a workshop I built! (hammer) 

This is my main bench area for hand-tool work




Secondary bench area, not yet fitted out completely. This will have the drill-press, sharpening station, and eventually a small vacuum frame-press (shop-built), which greatly enhances gluing braces to guitar tops and backs. I also put my pattern-makers vice here, as it tends to be a magnet for guitar neck/headstock etc, so I kept it off my main bench.




Sanding corner, strategically next to the Clearvue cyclone. Jet edge sander and Leman twin-drum thickness sander. 




Part of my wood stash. This is dry, acclimatised and ready to use. I have a dehumidifier keeping the workshop around 45% relative humidity. Only problem is that it generates heat as a byproduct, and I built the workshop very well insulated to keep noise pollution down for the neighbours. So, with the dehumidifier pumping out warm air, a big machine+cyclone running, it quickly gets hot in there even in winter. I think a small AC is in the works... The planer/thicknesser will sit in this area.




The rest of the wood stash in the roofspace. This is not so easily accessible, but I use it for wood which needs a few years before being stable enough to build with.




So, that's my guitar-building workshop, hope at least some of you found it of interest  

Cheers, Drew


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## morfa

Very cool. Really nice shop you've got there. Good to see it finished.


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