# New Workshop



## defsdoor (16 Feb 2016)

My old brick shed is now down to ground (neighbour wanted the bricks so we took it down a brick at a time) and I'm just awaiting a skip and some hired hands to remove the remaining rubble, hammer up the floor and remove a load of soil.

I'm looking at a area of approx 7-8m * 4-5m and planning on using beam and block for the floor. Once this is in I will have a nice level area to assemble framing etc..

I've not actually drawn up a design yet as I don't quite know the finished dimensions, but I'm hoping to get it built during the summer months.

In my head I've decided on simple framing (deep enough for good insulation) with vapour barrier framing/insulation, breathable membrane and some form of cladding/exterior covering for the walls.

I'm still undecided on the best form of roof (gable, saltbox or flat) or what to put on top.

I'd welcome any advice, recommendations and suggestions for the build. I've been following the build threads here for some time now so there's plenty of inspiration.


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Feb 2016)

Check your floor area to find what regs. you have to comply with first.


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## defsdoor (16 Feb 2016)

I've read the planning portal site for out-buildings and if I'm over 30sqm I will need building regs approval. Whilst I'm confident I can build within regs (they seem fairly straightforward ) I'm all for making life easier and sizing this to within that (7m * 4.2m) I need to see how that looks laid out in position though I think.

I'm well within the not-exceeding 50% ground coverage rules and will be 1m away from all boundaries.

My biggest grief is the amount of soil I need to get out. The previous shed's floor is about 18" lower than the adjacent ground level - mostly due to years of leaf fall. It's great soil though.

Skip arrives tomorrow! I'll take some pics of the plot and post them here.


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## Paul200 (17 Feb 2016)

Excellent! A workshop WIP! We like them. Looking forward to pics and progress


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Feb 2016)

You shouldn't pay to dump decent soil - put some small ads. about. Someone'll be glad of it. I would ... but a 550 mile round trip would be cost prohibitive.


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## RobinBHM (17 Feb 2016)

I think for planning it is min 2.0m away from boundary for height or if closer then 2.5M at highest point (which usually means a flat roof to achieve decent ceiling height). Then more than 1.0m to avoid fire regs (part of B/regs).

Im in the process of building a shed 5.4 x 2.7M using the following spec:

from outside:

siberian larch feather edge - 25 x 50 tile batten - tyvek housewrap - 18mm osb board - 95 x 45 stud - celetex in between then boarding on inside to follow.

There are some good examples of timber framing on the tyvek site which I used as a basis.

Top soil removal -often cheapestway is grab lorry if you have a suitable space for collection.


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## mseries (17 Feb 2016)

Top soil removal. Get someone to make some long sausage shaped bags with tied ends and quick release cords. Stitch these into your trouser legs so that the cords can be operated by you hands from inside your pockets. Get some friends to do some gardening in a local park or somewhere, you know a volunteer program or community garden. Then fill the trouser bags with the spoil and walk over their plots, carefully opening the bags while no one is looking, your friends will work the soil into the ground. It's proven to work.


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## johnny (17 Feb 2016)

or dig a big hole to put it in  

I bet if you ask around your neighbours there's bound to be someone that would die for some free topsoil . Maybe do a deal where they help dig it out and remove it from site for you :wink: 

I had less to get rid off than you so I filled 25x fertiliser sacks and sold it for £25.00 . My wife reckons I've got more 'neck' than a giraffe :lol:


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## defsdoor (17 Feb 2016)

This is the plot. Bad photo but it's cold and wet and David Bailey wouldn't come 







The green building on the left is next door's shed. 

The neighbour at the rear replaced the fence (i wish he had waited) and the plastic sheets are to keep the soil off it - his floor level is much lower than mine. I will dig down to his level (ish) - the beam and block foundation and insulation will bring the building floor back up to approximately lawn level.

The ladder is there as a light bulb needed changing


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## johnny (17 Feb 2016)

why are you reducing levels across the whole site and putting in a block and beam base ? 

For my 4.6m x 3m shed I just dug out some small holes and built up some piers using concrete blocks then built a timber base using treated softwood sleepers from my local timber merchant 250mm x 125mm cheap as chips and last forever. http://www.yarcombewp.com/Categories/63/Softwood-Sleepers.html

It seems to me that there is often a tendancy to 'over-engineer' timber sheds and workshops. There is no need for 4"x2" studwork either. I used 63mm x 38mm for studwork and rafters @ £0.82p a metre !again making considerable savings over using 43mm x 70mm (2" x"3 ") at £2.30 per metre! thats nearly 2/3rds cheaper
http://www.diy.com/departments/cls-planed-unfinished-c16-t38mm-w63mm-l2400mm-pack-of-8/492781_BQ.prd
http://www.diy.com/departments/scant-pl ... 785_BQ.prd


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## cammy9r (17 Feb 2016)

Nothing wrong with over engineering anything shed like. 4x2 gives a bit more room for insulation if you are using it, 6x2 even more so. I guess it really comes down to square metres floor plan and budget. If you have ten grand for 30 square metres or one grand, i spent just over £3000 all in. 
Looks like a good site and looking forward to a detailed WIP.


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## defsdoor (17 Feb 2016)

I'm open for changing the foundation plans but I really do have a problem with the height the garden has grown over the years before we moved here and cut most of the trees down 

I'd really like it to be as warm as possible and for that I need thicker insulation - 80-90mm celotex was the plan - and thicker still on the roof.

The beam and block floor was the suggestion of my builder friend - he's going to supply the labour to lay it. He said it would be simpler and less to clear than a poured concrete base.

Also, the lower I start the less imposing it will be (and therefore troublesome).


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## johnny (18 Feb 2016)

cammy9r":6awlzkd2 said:


> Nothing wrong with over engineering anything shed like. 4x2 gives a bit more room for insulation if you are using it, 6x2 even more so. I guess it really comes down to square metres floor plan and budget. If you have ten grand for 30 square metres or one grand, i spent just over £3000 all in.
> Looks like a good site and looking forward to a detailed WIP.



there is lots of information on the net to help with projects like this so that it is not just guesswork :wink: Its not a question of the thicker the better with insulation. There is a point at which in order to make miniscule gains in thermal resistance you need huge increases in insulant thickness . It just becomes uneconomical .
You need to determine the U value you wish to achieve ,then look at the thermal resistance and conductivity of the insulation you intend to use and that will determine the thickness of material you need. 
Celotex have a very helpful pdf to download that gives all the information you need .
http://www.encon.co.uk/sites/default/files/handy-guide-jan-12.pdf


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## RobinBHM (18 Feb 2016)

Block and beam is an expensive route, it will need a foundation to sit on. Also it wont be flat. The beams are pre stressed so are bowed in the middle allowing for the weight of a screed finish.

I built my shed very close to a small brook so the ground was poor and liable to collapse. I dug holes about 350mm dia ( those near the brook about 1500mm deep) and filled with concrete to form pads ( shuttered at the top so all pads level) then spanned the pads with steel beams. I then laid joists on top. It might be worth doing a cost comparison.


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## johnny (18 Feb 2016)

s you say Robin pads and beams are the way to go for sure .Steel is still an expensive choice I would go for tannilised sleeper beams personally . They are a lot cheaper and at 250mm x 125mm are massively strong . There is also the added advantage of being able to drill,screw and nail into them and use own labour for economy
Pot and beam or concrete slab floors are just inappropriate for a small timber structure and extremely expensive .

if you use 440mm x 215mm x 215mm hollow concrete blocks you can fill them with concrete to consolidate the pads.
At £2.50 per block and say £30 per 2.4m sleeper beam its not too difficult to cost a base using this method and comparing that with a pot and beam floor and the cost of the builders labour .


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## RobinBHM (18 Feb 2016)

I used steel I beams as I was so close to the brook, one corner of the shed needed the steels to be cantilevered over the pads by 2'0 or more. I also needed to keep below the 2.5M limit for planning, so steels are slimmer than timber. 

With no issues on space, timber beams would work well

The shed I built is 2.7m x 5.4M so I used 4no 2.7M I beams 5" x 3" section, from memory the beams were about £200.00


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## cammy9r (18 Feb 2016)

Hi defsdoor, what would be the use of the workshop and could a timber floor be used instead. I needed to park a car in mine so timber was out of the question, but the other one will have a timber floor. I had a quick look on the net and 4.2m beams are about £35+vat each, then say a £1 per block plus foundation to support beams. This looks to be around £1000 just for the base, which is fine if there is no problems with that amount. When I did my base, usual type1 then blinding then dpm then concrete it came to £512 for 30m2 with the concrete at 130mm deep. At that thickness it was around 4 cubic metres. I will say it was hard work doing it with a half bag mixer. Ready mix would have been a better option if the base location was easier.
Have you decided on a roof design, someone a while back did a very nice gambrel roof it looked really good and gave plenty headroom and even roof storage but he did go up to the 4m limit in height.


edit: this one new-workshop-build-with-a-difference-t44368.html  all the pics are gone


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## johnny (18 Feb 2016)

RobinBHM":2m0syqsm said:


> I used steel I beams as I was so close to the brook, one corner of the shed needed the steels to be cantilevered over the pads by 2'0 or more. I also needed to keep below the 2.5M limit for planning, so steels are slimmer than timber.
> 
> 
> The shed I built is 2.7m x 5.4M so I used 4no 2.7M I beams 5" x 3" section, from memory the beams were about £200.00



Ahhh .....I see why you chose steel now and that is a good price too. :wink: Did it include fabricating brackets gussets welding etc ?...

However timber is still an excellent choice for a cantilever . You just need to do some simple structural calculations to satisfy the Building Control :lol: Provided your beams are of sufficient depth to resist deflection (the UDL and PL within the shed acts as a counter-weight for the cantilever.)
You still have to calculate and prove the structural loading on steel to satisify the BC . i'm a bit rusty now but it shouldn't take more than half an hour to calculate the loadings on timber beams

this might prove useful reading it lists all the advantages of block pier and timber beam foundations for large sheds.
http://www.secrets-of-shed-building.com/shed_pier_foundation.html


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## defsdoor (18 Feb 2016)

The beam and block was the suggestion of my builder - I'm game for whatever is the best combination of price, simplicity but most important, fit for purpose.

The building will house all my woodworking gear and have a area for my electronics and possibly 3d printer setup (I might leave this in the house).

I could go for a pier'ed wooden floor but this will require complete removal of all the soil. This does have the advantage of simply standing atop of the old shed's concrete floor where it overlaps.

I'll decide definitely once I've cleared the area completely. The skip is half full already and I've hardly touched the rubble so I reckon I will need 2-3 swaps. Totally knackered though.


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## johnny (18 Feb 2016)

defsdoor":37gmgqfo said:


> I could go for a pier'ed wooden floor but this will require complete removal of all the soil. h.



why ? not sure why you would need to clear the site of topsoil ? if you are using piers then you just need to dig a small hole for each conc block pier ....unless you need to dig down to reduce the ridge height to comply with planning ? 

If I were you if you haven't already done so... do a simple project costing. I did a really thorough costing on my shed and still ended up spending over budget. 
You could then do a comparison of pot and beam floor vs a conc pier and timber beam floor . I think you'll be amazed at how much the concrete floor is going to cost you ,both in terms of money and labour time.


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## defsdoor (18 Feb 2016)

If I don't dig down then the lowest the underside of the floor joists could be is a couple of inches above the soil. The soil is already 18 inches higher than all the surrounding ground (lawn, neighbours etc..) and the old shed concrete floor. This old shed floor is the natural ground height. The higher ground is many many years of rotted leaf soil (incidentally I had 6-8 inches of this soil on the roof of the old shed!)

So if I don't dig out the soil, the new shed floor surface will be 2.5ft above the ground (it will just about reach the edge of the lower lawn). That itself adds a whole additional bunch of problems to the build and how to get in and out of the shed.

The current path is ground level with the old shed concrete floor and this is where I will be putting the main door - I really don't want this over 2ft above the path.

Also, this raised soil bed is 18-24 inches above the fence that the bottom neighbour has recently replaced. If I don't lower the ground level my side this fence will be rotted through in a year - otherwise I will be keeping the gap he dug out clear.

Ideally I want the base of my new foundation to start at the level of the existing concrete floor - this will give me a 6-8 inch step up (depending on the floor joist size).


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## johnny (19 Feb 2016)

That makes perfect sense now. :wink: 
sorry I didn't mean to give you a hard time over this ,I was just trying to be helpful. 

If we were talking together I would have known your reasons but there is only so much that we can explain in a forum message ,about all the little details that guide our choices .

If I was nearer I'd come over with my spade and give you a hand  sounds like you've got a lot of work just preparing the site.


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## cammy9r (19 Feb 2016)

Nothing wrong with that plan. Get digging and if you can still lift a camera afterwards then a progress pic would be nice. A little funny that I spent hundreds of pounds buying in nearly 15 tons of topsoil to do the lawn and you are possibly spending hundreds to get rid of it.


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## defsdoor (19 Feb 2016)

Cleared all the rubble from the inside of the remaining couple of courses of bricks so I can take some more meaningful pictures - 

Skip nearly full






Path to old door (its there honest)





Side view of height difference (although the camera seems to lose it)





Low view of different even by side of path





And low view to the side also 




The soil is above that slab boundary in places.

The long side will be in this direction. The start of the new building will be 1m approx in from the edge of the current shed (it was built practically up to the boundary)

The narrow length of the shed (I keep calling it a shed - its my workshop!) will be up to approximately where the far side of the ladder is.

I figure I could leave the current shed floor where it is and add a small pier to rest some beams on. This would be my datum point for the overall level and determine how much needs to be removed elsewhere.

I'm fine with an all wood floor as long as I can insulate it well. The beam and block was a suggestion from my builder friend who would install it for mates rates (and get me trade on the materials)


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## johnny (19 Feb 2016)

great shots ! now we know what you've been up to :lol: 

i had exactly the same build as you.
i needed to replace an existing 12'0" x 8'0" (3.6m x 2.4 ) timber shed which sat on a concrete base with a much bigger 16'.0" x 10'.0" (3.0m x 7.0m )

I did exactly what you propose. I dug out some holes to level and placed some hollow concrete blocks . I then placed some 250mm x 125mm reclaimed sleepers on the piers until the finished level of the top of the beams was level with the top of the concrete base . Then its simply a matter of using some treated 75mm x75mm treated bearers (c £1.50 perM ) across the lot to support your workshop walls and floors. 
I had a very tight budget so for cheapness I covered the bearers with treated T&G cladding I salvaged from the old shed ,then put 18mm chipboard on top of that but you could put some celtex between the two 

Might be worth looking for a local Company supplying timber fencing as they generally treat all their timber on site and will probably stock everything you need including reclaimed sleepers if you choose to go that route.

I know that you are intending to build within Permitted Development criteria but just to be on the safe side and anticipate possible problems run through this interactive Planning guide .
I thought I had covered all the bases but one of my neighbours complained (Parish Councillor) and I ended up having to lower my shed roof by 3" ! ruined the felt and was a lot of work.http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/commonprojects/outbuildings/miniguide


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## cammy9r (19 Feb 2016)

Thats a fair amount of work there but the right thing to do. As you say leave the old base and work from it. Have you got a budget in mind. Wood is never cheap even though it grows on/in trees :?


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## defsdoor (19 Feb 2016)

My accountant (the wife) agreed to 10k a long time ago and I am holding her to that. I'd like to come in below that as once this is complete I will need a couple of purchases to go in it.

Totally knackered after this morning's exertions and the wife wants to go out  Have to drive to Devon and back over the weekend to collect my daughter so won't get any more done till monday.


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## cammy9r (19 Feb 2016)

:shock: 10k :shock: 
Im sure it will come in well below that even with the beam and block floor. I bet you will build something beautiful with that budget, perhaps not just a typical shed.
Enjoy the weekend off.


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## johnny (19 Feb 2016)

10K :shock: strewth !...... I could build you a 2x storey extension to your house for that ! :lol: 

Seriously that must include all your new toys and equipment yes ? :wink: 

My shed cost a little over 2K and I lined mine out with mdf . Its true I only used some cheap insulation off a roll to fit between the studs and rafters but 10k !..........crikey .
Well done anyway with what you've acomplished so far you deserve a bit of R&R


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## defsdoor (19 Feb 2016)

Shush - she might hear you !


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## No skills (20 Feb 2016)

Good luck with this. Even at the size your building I would be aiming to get the build cost sub 4k, the rest of the budget is quite a motivator


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## Ollie78 (21 Feb 2016)

I will follow your progress with interest. I am planning a very similar building in my garden. I for one am not at all surprised by your budget. I have not finalised my design exactly but it will be on the 30m2 limit, 7m by 4m ish. I plan to do a concrete slab with timber frame, sawn 100 by 50mm framing osb outside with house wrap and timber cladding. Inside celotex 100mm with 25mm air gap (for electrics to hide in and for sound attenuation) and plasterboard lined. Using reclaimed doors and windows I worked out costs to about 8k if I do everything myself. My current sticking point is the roof, either totally flat with an upstand and epdm or a slight fall front to back and insulated metal roofing panels. 
Also I am considering metal joists for the roof to reduce the thickness of the roof and thus increase inside height.

Incedentally I am interpreting the planing portal rules of 30m2 as the internal floor area so will be putting walls on the outside edge of this measurement.
Good luck. 

Ollie


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## defsdoor (22 Feb 2016)

I'm doing some designs and basing it so far on a wooden framed floor on 6m * 5m layout, made from 75mm * 220mm joists. If I stick with wood floor structure I will put the insulation in between the joists as this saves me height.

Is it typical to put the floor in first and fix the walls down through the floor to the joists below (this is what I did with my shed) ? I can see plenty of plans where they do this but I, for some reason, have reservations about this.

I can see that not doing this would require additional wall-side floor support, but am uneasy about a floor that cannot be lifted (easily).


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## defsdoor (22 Feb 2016)

I've done a first draft of the floor - sizing everything to sensible multiples -


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## johnny (23 Feb 2016)

you need to design your base first .!

Are you intending to put your floor joists straight onto a concrete base ? or will they be supported on concrete piers ? if so at what spacing ?
Show us the base that you intend to use and how you intend to put your floor structure onto it 

your joists are massively over specced ......no wonder your shed is expected to cost £10,000 :roll: 
have you even done a costing on these ? Are they spanning ? if so what distance ? are they treated ? class 3 ,class 4? what specification is the timber ? C16, c24 ? what is the actual distance your joists will be spanning ? its not going to be 5.00 M for sure. 
What is your anticipated loading on the shed floor of your whole structure including roof loads point loads evenly distribiuted loads, dynamic loads etc 
You appear to have your joists on 350mm centres which is crazy . Are you intending to use 18mm or 22mm chipboard flooring ? If yourjoists are spaced at 450mm or less, you can use 18mm boards. If the spacing is greater than 450mm, use 22mm thick boards.

I think you need to show us exactly what you are proposing to construct from the ground up so that we can best advise you. If you have a website with some images of the construction , sections etc it would be very helpful to post them .

ps no its not advisable to put your entire structure on top of your chipboard floor . Put your stud wall sole plates onto your floor joists first ..then put your flooring in between the sole plates.


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## defsdoor (23 Feb 2016)

That is the base 

In this design I'm suggesting block supports on each corner and at the mid point of the long edges only.

The width-ways span is 4650mm so I can use 45 x 220mm c24 joists. I have them on 400mm centres on this design.

The floor panels in this design are 18mm

Note at the moment I am just knocking up draft ideas - non of this is committed.


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## johnny (23 Feb 2016)

ok well a simple sketch of section through your structure would be very helpful to you and us. You seem to be designing this bit by bit as you go which is going to cause you compromises and major problems right through the build. I always look for ways to economise where possible to reduce wastage and redundancy so I guess I am looking at this shed build from an entirely different perspective. If it were me i would draw up the entire shed to scale in elevation and section with dimensions so that I can use them for costing and as a construction aid. that way you can construct your entire shed on paper first before committing a single penny and there are no surprises.

Chipboard is as cheap as chips whereas graded timber is very expensive. I would suggest that you settle on using 22mm chipboard .its stonger and less likely to warp,bend or be damaged by liquid spillage etc At least that will be one thing settled. :wink: The benefit of using 22mm is that you can now space your joists at 600mm centres not 400mm . That will save you 5x joists and about £150.00 !
If you place your chipboard flooring between the studwork you will have the option of removing and replacing damaged boards should you need to do so.

If you place your joists at 450mm centres with 375mm gaps you could then cover the joists in treated timber t&g cladding then lay your *uncut* sheets of insulation board on top of that and then put your chipboard flooring on top of that. then your chipboard will be protected from damp and insect damage from below and your insulation will not need cutting to put between the joists and it will be more effective because of the protection from the t&g from the cold air .


.


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## defsdoor (23 Feb 2016)

I'm not sure why you think I'm doing this bit by bit. All I've done to date is clear the old shed and rubble out of the way and started doing some preliminary modelling :O

But I won't be ordering a single plank of wood until I've got a complete design that I am happy with and I fully expect there to be many iterations. I've still not given up on a beam and block base - my builders coming over this weekend and we will discuss more then (I started out wanting a concrete slab).

I'm not keen on putting the insulation above the joists as this will add extra height from the outside ground floor and reduce valuable head room - but I hadn't considered protecting a chipboard floor (not decided on a chipboard floor yet either  ) Can a vapour barrier be put down beneath it first ?

I'm not too fussed about an over engineered floor - especially if I do end up with a wooden floor structure. I'd like the floor to be as solid and bounce free as is feasible.

I'm doing the design of this in onshape so I can easily tweak the dimensions and spacings etc.. (simple variable change) I'll post more as I get time to work on it.

Appreciate your feedback though - I've never done something of this scale before and I'd like to get it right.


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## Wuffles (23 Feb 2016)

defsdoor":18lgwyok said:


> That is the base



Lol 8)

Good work. Are you intending to have any seriously heavy kit in there? Ever? Best think of the future in my opinion. 

My base is solid concrete as it was an old stable, but without that I would have struggled with my old cast iron table saw. 

And the Pool table, pile of bricks I (for no reason) keep in the corner, enormous pile of junk in the other corner, vast array of enormous pieces of wood decomposing in the other corner. Busy bloke me.


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## John15 (23 Feb 2016)

Hi defsdoor,

Good to see you are doing things your way and in your own time, and not succumbing to pressure.

John


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## johnny (23 Feb 2016)

defsdoor":1l3xrz2f said:


> I'm not sure why you think I'm doing this bit by bit. .



well maybe its because youve cleared the site and started talking about construction and material sizes but you don't seem to have any idea about your overall design or given any thought about how your shed is going to be constructed. :wink: 

You are talking about height restrictions but I thought that you intended to build the shed a minimum of 2.0 metres from any boundary . ?
if there is a 2.5mt height restriction due to permitted development limitations then this should be your first concern and will largely determine your ground levels , workshop design ,construction methods and materials. 2.5m is extemely restrictive and you'll barely have sufficient headroom inside your workshop with a pitched roof construction and the roof will have insufficient fall for rainwater runoff.

if you have a 4'0m height restriction then there shouldn't be any significant problems with height but you need to bear in mind that a Planning Officer will measure the overall height of your structure from the lowest natural ground point around your workshop.If you excavate to reduce levels then the measurement will be taken from an average of surrounding original ground levels prior to work not from your new ground level .

I would suggest you start at the finished surface of your original concrete base as your datum .
Find the lowest point of your original natural ground level where you haven't excavated it. Add or subtract to your datum point depending on whether the concrete is above or below the original ground level. That will then be your new site datum. Hopefully you won't have a minus figure 

Then add up the height of all your construction from your datum point and subtract it from your height restriction and you'll know if you have sufficient headroom or if you'll need to alter your construction design to keep under that height.

you might find this base system of interest .http://www.shedbase.com/quickjackpro/


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## defsdoor (1 Apr 2016)

Nice weather means no excuse for doing some work....

I've decided to locate the shed 2m from the boundary. It makes little difference to the loss of ground and adds significant benefits.

The obvious one is the height restriction - I can now go up to 4m if needed - but additionally I have less concerns about the height difference from our garden to the rear neighbour's.

This is where we (my Dad's helping) left things on Wednesday -















Incidentally, I should point out at this point that the fences you can see here are all my neighbours. The fence that is my responsibility can't be seen. It pretty much vanished under all the years of unrestrained plant growth and when my neighbour tidied up their side and all the ivy was ripped up the fence was gone :O

You can tell from this that there's been a change of plan on the base. I'm sinking 8 post holes at 2.5m x 3m spacing, and building up from the existing shed base for support in the corner that will overhang it. 

So the job is significantly simpler - we just need to level the ground as best we can to allow the support posts to be as low as possible.

The camera doesn't give away the height difference very well - looking at these photos even I am wondering what the fuss was 






But at the end of day one we'd cleared the big left hump and lifted some slabs.






And after 2 days, the skip is full and we're pretty much level throughout.









We walked the spirit level over via some stakes





Pulled up a load of slabs - some from a long lost path around the outside of the shed and some from the retaining "wall" (will re-use these for a path around the new shed.)






And filled a 2nd skip.






My costs for this so far are -
2 * Skip @180 - 360
1 * Wheel Barrow - 45
Concrete - 140

For the supports the current plan is to shutter up to height (I've a friend with a spinny laser thing coming to help with this) some 400mmx400mm holes and to concrete up to the top. This will avoid the need for additional bricks/mortar to get level.

Is there a recommended height above ground level for the underside of the base joists ?

As far as the base goes, I'm thinking of making it from 4 - 2.5x3m square sections - bolted together 2 by 2. This will give double thickness support across the middle of the shed and be easier for me to handle (I'm on my own from now on.)

I welcome any suggestions....


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## flying haggis (3 Apr 2016)

good idea making the base in sections

when you have done one bit you have a template for the others and something to work from
i used 6x2 joists and 22mm gravel boards for my base

yet-another-shed-build-t60331.html


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## Markvk (3 Apr 2016)

I built mine last summer and thought that id read those height restrictions to be to the eaves so within 2m from the boundary it was something like 2.4 to eaves with a max ridge of 4m. if that's not the case I got away with murder... and my neighbour is an architect....

here's mine 5x3.5m, solid concreate 4" base insulated lined, all for £2300 although dare I say some of its made from recycled pallets??? (homer)


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## defsdoor (3 Apr 2016)

You might not have gotten away with it yet 

Within less than 2 metres your maximum height is 2.5

2m or more and its 2.5 for eaves and 4m max for a dual pitched roof and 3 metres max for anything else.

Dug all the support holes today and have some concrete being delivered tomorrow.

Have shuttered the holes up to a common height close to ground level and will cement concrete block atop to get to final base supporting height.


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## defsdoor (4 Apr 2016)

Holes filled.


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## Markvk (4 Apr 2016)

defsdoor":1lcipg5l said:


> You might not have gotten away with it yet
> 
> Within less than 2 metres your maximum height is 2.5
> 
> ...



Nope my BAD! I did know the regs.... just checked my notes on the build and I'm crack on the 2.5 height.... senility is obviously settling in.....

Are you still doing beam and blocks? if so are you screeding over? if not you might get problems with blocks cracking over time....

Other points that I learnt from my build are:

The double doors at the end were a cosmetic gift to the wife to "make it look pretty" theve turned out to be really useful, so useful that id have installed some retrospectively had they not been there. They allow me to park a saw just inside the shop and machine it out into the garden. Access is also much improved for machinery.

Sockets have loads, about twice as many as you might think youll need.

don't run lights into your eaves, I ran 3 fittings down the ridge and then fittings running from the ridge board to the eave, the result is any shelving and stuff stacked on them catches the tubes and fittings, ive got to turn them around to run parallel with the ridge now.

If you plan to have shelving above any fixed bench, plan your lighting to avoid shading of the bench by the shelving.

Plan locations of fixed equipment and provide power supplies. I put a dust filter mounted on the ceiling but hadn't put in a dedicated supply. Ive decided that ive no room internally for a compressor or chip extractor, so they are going outside in a lean too, again no supply.

Will you need any 16 amp supplies, if so plan for them.

Ive 3 pieces of equipment that run on VFD's if id have known before hand I could have installed 1 VFD to run all of the equipment and saved some cash.

Don't forget the interweb! I get fed up with having to go to the house to get a good interweb connection!

intercom to the main house.

Leave space for a beer fridge......

These may or may not be of any help, but they are things that I didn't think of beforehand and I should have.... ive pretty much sorted it all but could have saved some time if id just thought about it.

mark


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## defsdoor (5 Apr 2016)

Markvk":11zambxd said:


> Are you still doing beam and blocks? if so are you screeding over? if not you might get problems with blocks cracking over time....



No - Wooden joist base, insulated between joists, one layer of insulation above to get the floor up to above sole-plate, and boarded (boarding yet to be determined). I've set out 9 supports at 3m and 2.5m spacing. Will make 4 floor frames and bolt them together. This will give me a double thickness support along both centre lines.

As I am 2m from all boundaries, the original garden path is clear so I will put the door on that side - although I'm thinking about having some sort of double doors along the house facing wall. This really depends on what I can find and how much it costs.

For internet I either use outdoor APs or directional wifi.

For intercom I will resurrect the house phone system (I build asterisk systems) and just put an extension over the wifi in. Can program intercom buttons on handsets then or just dial it 

Thanks for the other reminders/pointers - I'm probably going flat roof up to my 3m max with epdm - but I'm open for persuasion otherwise. I just think flat will be much simpler.

Am cementing the blocks and building the final support (the one on the old shed base) this weekend and sorting out access to a trade discount at a local building supplies company. I need to source doors and windows so I know what sizes I'm dealing with and can then start planning above floor level.


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## Glynne (5 Apr 2016)

Hi Andy,
Some time since you kindly lent me your chainsaw so apologies for noticing this thread before.
If it would help, you're welcome to pop around and have a look at my workshop which has been up for about 10 years now.




It is a brick & breeze block construction with external & internal cladding and a concrete floor and I'm sure I can drag out my design notes / invoices etc. It cost about £4.5k at the time so will be more expensive now but I'd be happy to tell you how I went about things. 
I'm just at the back of Good Hope hospital so not a million miles away. Drop me a PM if you're interested.
Regards,
Glynne

PS It was that big conifer on the left that I needed the saw for.


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## Markvk (6 Apr 2016)

Hi Andy.

I used these people for windows and the doors, they are exceptionally well priced! but are for sheds so not as robust as household windows and doors

Mark


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## defsdoor (20 Apr 2016)

Blocks are in and level - 











And everything to get me up to floor level is being delivered today!

Have enough air hose to get to the bottom now without needing to move the compressor from the garage and I tested the framing nailer yesterday.

Stupidly though I've gone and got a job :| Will be weekends and evenings only from Monday.


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## defsdoor (23 Apr 2016)

Floor frame done!

Am knackered - took me almost 3 whole days.

Had to make some adjustments as I went but all in all I'm really happy with it. The adjustments left me with a nice channel down the middle for power to the middle.

It looks huge!


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## skipdiver (25 Apr 2016)

It'll look even bigger when you start to go up. Buildings always appear smaller when they are at the base stage. 

Looking good.


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## defsdoor (31 May 2016)

My next load of materials arrived so I had no excuse to carry on this weekend.

First job was to finish the base - I had 2 more joists and the insulation between them to do.

Next job was to get the OSB on the base so I had a nice flat area to frame on. This OSB will ultimately be covered with some Caberdek so the floor should be solid.






Unfortunately I ran out of OSB - I have about a 4inch gap left to fill at the front. The gaps around the sides are the width of the sole plate.

Then I tackled the back wall - this is one of two walls without openings so pretty straightforward - if it wasn't for some twists I need to rack out. The timber is approx 5x2 - thick enough for some 100mm celotex.

The hardest part was getting it upright. All on my own  I started with a couple of timbers and a ladder to lever it up, followed by some uprights to prop it at rest heights. But I soon ran out of leverage as the wall eventually needed to go horizontal as much as vertical. So my next approach was to single nail a prop at each end and move it 6 inches each end in turn. 

This was a little scary - especially as one end was on a paving slab and kept slipping but eventually I got there.











Next weekend I'll hopefully get the next wall complete - then I need to decide what I am doing for windows and doors before I can do the remaining walls.

My roof is going to be flat with EPDM covering. I'm not certain how I am going to span it yet.


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## Fitzroy (31 May 2016)

Looking good! Can I ask a few Qs.

1. Did you do any calculations for the loads on your foundation pads? Looks like you have 9 pads for a building about twice the size of mine (6m x 3x), where as I have 18 pads (3 rows of 6), i think i may have overdone it!
2. Any reason why you didn't take the OSB to the edge of the deck and then the wall plates on top and nailed through?

F.


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## defsdoor (31 May 2016)

Didn't do any load calculations. The pads are on 2'x2' and at least 2' deep concrete. 

With regards to sole plates on top of the floor - everyone on here said it was a bad idea


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## Fitzroy (31 May 2016)

That all makes sense as my pads are only 100mm deep and made of compressed sub base as my planning permission did not allow anything else! I'd missed the advice of not putting the walls on top of the floor, plans now changed!

F.


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## defsdoor (5 Jun 2016)

2 more walls up. Need more wood. I've left a hole for the moment until I figure out what windows I'm putting in. Hoping to get hold of some bifolds.


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## defsdoor (7 Jun 2016)

Got some 4 panel bifold doors coming to fill the hole in the front 

Just need to sort out a side door now.


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## defsdoor (27 Jun 2016)

A bit slow going here but recently had some time to progress.

Got all four walls up now - although I nearly lost one when it tipped it down and the tarp started to pull it down.

Support is in for my bifolds and joists starting to go up. I can hardly lift the joists - getting them on the top is a challenge.






The random OSB is to add some diagonal torsion.










All the joists up -









and so began the task of getting the OSB on the roof - 






I pushed the boards up the "spare" ceiling joists with long length of lath.






I finished boarding the roof today and put a few more sheets on the walls. I have a random overhang of the roof that I will trim with a flush cutting router bit against some temporary fascias that I have tacked up.

It's been slow going but had a few good days work this week due to the completion of our other project - 






This is Jonah - aged 7 days and completely amazing


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## n0legs (27 Jun 2016)

Well he's a cracking little fella  
Congratulations =D>


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## MattRoberts (28 Jun 2016)

Congrats - only a couple of days apart from our little girl. Hence me posting at this time


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## defsdoor (20 Aug 2016)

No updates in ages but doesn't mean I haven't been busy.

Haven't been able to spend as much time on this as I needed but the current status is all OSB boarding complete. Rubber roof on and complete (bar some minor trims).

Acquired some UPVC trims today for creating the base drip edge and am hoping to have the whole thing wrapped and (maybe) the bifolds in by the end of tomorrow.







I don't have many pictures. Which is a shame as I would love to have shown you my contraption for getting the rubber up on the roof. It used the same joist ramp as I used for getting OSB up there but also had a one way brake on it just in case I let it slip (the roll of rubber weighed a ton!).

I'm not sure EPDM is actually worth all the effort (and cost) after doing this though. Very hard to do on my own. I have 2 patches on my knees where there's no skin left whatsoever. The end result isn't perfect but I'm happy with it.


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## defsdoor (2 Sep 2016)

Door fitted!

Really pleased with them too.


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## Fitzroy (2 Sep 2016)

Doors looking good. Currently trying to decide what I'm doing with my doors!

How did you attach the building wrap, lots of staples? Did you tape edges? Is the wrap taken inside the door flashing? Should have finished the shed Osb clad and be on to the building wrap this weekend, so pointers would be great. 

Also hoping to get the EPDM roof on if the weather holds, not looking forward to the knee pain/rub, but been committed to the system for too long to turn back now. 

Cheers 

Fitz.


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## curtisrider (2 Sep 2016)

I used a slap stapler for membrane, it was a really quick process with that.

Nice build, really liking the amount of natural light the doors will bring in there.


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## defsdoor (3 Sep 2016)

I stapled the wrap with a stanley electric stapler and stainless steel staples. This was most entertaining to do on my own. The bottom wrap was relatively easy but the top (highest) one was achieved by clamped a broom to a ladder and walk it around the building ahead of me stapling it 

Have 4 rolls of edge tape and forgot to use it  Not sure this will be an issue as I would like vertical cladding and the battens will fall pretty much on the edges. I can't see the wall getting that wet with the amount of overhang I have on the roof.

I folded the membrane all the way inside.

I have a whole unopened roll of the same membrane (and the 4 rolls of said tape) if anyone would like to buy it off me for a fair price.


I lost the skin completely off one knee (and most of the other) doing the EPDM :O The only advice I can give to laying it is to make sure you have someone to help. Doing it a half a roof at a time meant I had a lot of glue to get down very quickly and, as it was a very warm day, it went off in some places too soon 

I'm hoping the shrinkage (10% apparently) will hide the flaws. But its a roof - no one can see it and it's perfectly water tight.

I'm still at a loss as to what to clad it in. In my head I have vertical planks with a slight gap in between - ideally in cedar - but its too bloomin expensive. Might end up in shiplap


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## defsdoor (12 Nov 2016)

Shiplap it was. Took 2 weekends to do 3 sides. Was spray painting the left in the dark after the clocks went back 








If it's dry tomorrow I will hopefully finish the back and make and paint the corner trims.


Once the cladding is out of the way I will be ordering the 100mm Celotex. The floor is all done (OSB topped with caberdek) though I need to either paint it or put a coating or lino on it at some point.

Any suggestions for what I should do for the inside walls ? It's looking like either plaster board or plywood atm - each have their own downsides though.


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## curtisrider (12 Nov 2016)

Looks great, well done!


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## Stanleymonkey (13 Nov 2016)

Looking good - what is lurking in the bushes wearing a hat and glasses?


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## defsdoor (13 Nov 2016)

That's Alvin the chipmunk. A result of the wife,s works holding a charity auction and an entertaining trip home.


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