# sash window book



## shim20 (11 Mar 2012)

dose anyone know of a book with detailed information on how to make these, its something i would like to know how to make.
cheers
ben


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## Cheshirechappie (11 Mar 2012)

Try 'Modern Practical Joinery' by George Ellis.


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## Shane (11 Mar 2012)

Cheshirechappie":2thdyer7 said:


> Try 'Modern Practical Joinery' by George Ellis.



Yes, that is a very good book


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## AndyT (11 Mar 2012)

A lot depends on whether you want to make them by hand or with machinery. Plenty of books show a diagram or two of the general construction, but leave out lots about the sequence of operations and how to make your case and sashes fit the opening in the wall.

There is a rather good detailed book that The Woodworker reprinted in the 70s, written about 1920 I think, that describes hand techniques. Not easy to find; there was this copy on eBay recently.

Probably a lot more useful - as it is available in full, for free, is Cassell's Carpentry and Joinery, from 1907, edited by Paul Hasluck. Start here to read on-line or here to download as a pdf.

It assumes handwork throughout, and is reassuringly detailed, showing how to make and use a rod for the dimensions, and also some special templates for marking out the joints.

There's also a useful (but inevitably brief) video by Roy Underhill that shows how to plane up sash sections here.


I'd be interested in a wip if you do decide to do it the trad way!


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## jt100 (11 Mar 2012)

hi
i like this you tube vid i think someone put this up on this site sorry dont no who
Manufacturing a new sash window case_0001.wmv

john


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## shim20 (11 Mar 2012)

AndyT":2i8atec7 said:


> A lot depends on whether you want to make them by hand or with machinery. Plenty of books show a diagram or two of the general construction, but leave out lots about the sequence of operations and how to make your case and sashes fit the opening in the wall.
> 
> There is a rather good detailed book that The Woodworker reprinted in the 70s, written about 1920 I think, that describes hand techniques. Not easy to find; there was this copy on eBay recently.
> 
> ...



wow thanks vey much that just what i was after  , i would love to do it the proper way and i will try and find time as my great grandad could do this he made all the sash windows in his house by hand, when i do it will do a wip but will be a while yet as busy with work :roll:. i have modern practical joinery and i agree is a super book,
thanks all for the replys


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## ProShop (11 Mar 2012)

Another very good book is Carpentry & Joinery book 3, by Brian Porter. It has a section on window making. It has some good detailed line drawings. 

I have mentioned this book before on here giving more details about it, do a search on the forum.


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## AndyT (11 Mar 2012)

It would be fascinating if you could make at least one by hand. It's something I'd like to try but have no need to do.

Reading through the descriptions, and thinking about the millions of hand made windows that were built in the C18th and 19th, one huge difference between then and now is in the cost of setting oneself up to make them.

With the hand tool approach, you'd need:

a bench;
rip, crosscut and back saws, also a padsaw;
planes - jack, try, smoother, plough, fillister, rebate and moulding planes for each pattern/size of moulding
brace and bits
chisels, scribing gouge
rule and square.

So, apart from the bench, you could fit all the tools into a joiner's tool basket. 

Nowadays you'd be looking at:

Sawbench
Planer
Thicknesser
Spindle moulder
Morticer
Dust extraction system

Needing lots of space and costing tens of thousands. The barrier to entry is much higher.


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## shim20 (11 Mar 2012)

AndyT":an1cwppr said:


> It would be fascinating if you could make at least one by hand. It's something I'd like to try but have no need to do.
> 
> Reading through the descriptions, and thinking about the millions of hand made windows that were built in the C18th and 19th, one huge difference between then and now is in the cost of setting oneself up to make them.
> 
> ...



i would do as much by hand as possible (hammer) ive found a copy of that book above, what a book it is but what a price it is :shock:, 
i have the above handtools apart from the moulding planes, and the use of machines, i will do it just not sure when, thanks agian for all the help


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Mar 2012)

I have a small paperback-"Window Making for Carpenters and Joiners"- based on articles in "Woodworker" between the wars.
If you would like it P.M. me with your address and stick a £5 in your nearest charity box, and I'll post it to you.


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## Dominion (11 Mar 2012)

If you wanted to simplify things most decent woodyards carry the all the sections, parting bead/staff bead/beaded facing/cill etc ready machined. The sashes are also just 2x2 PAR with a 3x2 bottom rail on the bottom sash.

I've made quite a few and they are incredibly time consuming compared to a normal window but very satisfying to make and work beautifully if you get the weights right (until the painters get hold of them).


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## Benchwayze (12 Mar 2012)

Is this of any use to you shim?

http://www.gifford-park-assoc.org/Makin ... HBLeke.pdf

Just save it to your hard drive. 

HTH


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## wobblycogs (12 Mar 2012)

You can download a copy of Modern Practical Joinery here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/36943473/Modern-Practical-Joinery-G-Ellis-1908

You need to sign up for an account and upload a dummy document (or pay) to get a days downloading. I can't say for sure whether it's legitimate. It's a Google scan of the 1908 edition of the book so I believe it should be out of copyright.


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## shim20 (12 Mar 2012)

Benchwayze":399qikgc said:


> Is this of any use to you shim?
> 
> http://www.gifford-park-assoc.org/Makin ... HBLeke.pdf
> 
> ...



awsome thanks il print that off, thanks for all the really helpful replys


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Mar 2012)

shim20-all done!


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## bugbear (13 Mar 2012)

shim20":qw0znu6d said:


> dose anyone know of a book with detailed information on how to make these, its something i would like to know how to make.
> cheers
> ben



I know Jacob does this for a living, so he'll hopefully be along with some references for you.

BugBear


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## shim20 (13 Mar 2012)

phil.p":1w8lxc7p said:


> shim20-all done!


thanks


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## shim20 (15 Mar 2012)

just came today, was just the book i was looking for thanks  dose anyone know what sort of moulding plane i would need to do the mouldings by hand? something like a Fillester Moulding Plane? or a stanley 55?


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## AndyT (15 Mar 2012)

shim20":ayjfn1ey said:


> just came today, was just the book i was looking for thanks  dose anyone know what sort of moulding plane i would need to do the mouldings by hand? something like a Fillester Moulding Plane? or a stanley 55?




There are two different approaches. The one that was established as normal practice in England is to use a sash moulding plane to form the ornamental moulding around the inner edges of the sash, and use the same plane to make any internal divisions (glazing bars). The first hit on Google was to Alf's website here: http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/woodenplane.html which gives you lots of extra useful information too. To make the rebates where the glass goes, you could just use a rebate plane, but in order to reference from the face edge, you need a fenced plane - a sash fillister. (Common on eBay and almost universally mislabelled as plough or moulding planes).

The other approach - which was commoner in the US - is to have one plane to make the decorative moulding and the rebate in one go. This was called a "stick and rabbet" plane and is what Roy Underhill shows in the video I originally linked to - at about 13 minutes in - http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/video/3100/3113.html. A Stanley 55 or 45 (or Record 405) comes with a cutter which works like that, making the moulding and the rebate in one.

For either approach, you will need a sticking board to support the glazing bars as you plane them. 

Btw which book did you buy? The Cassell Carpentry and Joinery seems to be about £65 and upwards for a printed copy, so I was glad to see it on the Internet Archive as a free pdf. (I did just miss one on eBay recently, which went for £22.)


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## shim20 (16 Mar 2012)

well very kindly phil.p sent me one the same as this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400274156625#ht_620wt_1165 for free(i put £5 in cancer research box) which was very kind of him, im also on the look out for a copy of The Cassell Carpentry and Joinery theres one on ebay for £115 :shock:, where can you get the printed copy from? thanks for the information


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## AndyT (16 Mar 2012)

shim20":8afhkil7 said:


> well very kindly phil.p sent me one the same as this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400274156625#ht_620wt_1165 for free(i put £5 in cancer research box) which was very kind of him, im also on the look out for a copy of The Cassell Carpentry and Joinery theres one on ebay for £115 :shock:, where can you get the printed copy from? thanks for the information



So, one option is to read the book on screen, and print any pages you especially want for yourself.

If you want a printed copy to use, you can get the pdf printed and bound as a book ("print on demand") for a reasonable price from a variety of sources.

If you want a nicely printed old copy, this search on Abebooks showed them starting at £58 when I looked just now; obviously this will change over time as 1000s of UKW readers snap them all up!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/S...ck&bt.x=55&bt.y=16&kn=carpentry+joinery&sts=t


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## shim20 (16 Mar 2012)

ooooo thanks the temptation was to much ones on its way to me, just such a book full of so much information you dont get anymore


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## Jacob (19 Mar 2012)

A lot of the old textbooks will have something, but they tend to tell different stories depending on when written, as fashions change. 
There aren't any new ones as far as I know, except there was a Taunton Press "Doors and windows" book* (can't remember the title ) but it was particular poor, misleading, and best avoided.
Various conservation bodies have info sheets and other resources - SPAB (best), Georgian Society, Victorian Soc. 
Scotland particularly well served http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/ind ... ations.htm and google Scottish Building Conservation, and building conservation in general. Just keep googling!
Doing them by hand means moulding planes (there are plenty about but you might have a problem matching a particular profile) rebate plane, plough for slots but otherwise just normal joinery.
Best source of all is to get your hands on an old window and take it apart. Ask your local DG sellers they might oblige.

PS just checked - the one to avoid is "Windows and Skylights" 1561581275. They have a similar title on their list which I haven't seen.


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