# And Here is the News



## deema (26 Apr 2022)

I’m sufficiently old to remember the news being read out in BBC English so that you didn’t have to interpret different regional accents and allowed everyone a good chance of understanding what’s being said. Now, ah nawt agin ah dialect bein a tyke me-sen. 

I also remember when journalists would look at a story and research it fully to present as far as possible an unbiased perspective rather than the sounds bites of personal opinions and emotional outpouring of individuals.

Today, I’m extremely sceptical of all main steam news media who all seem to have retrenched to cheap, factually thin sound bite reporting.

I wonder, am I unique or do others feel let down by the standards of journalism these days or indeed can recommend a proper source of real news?


----------



## Jacob (26 Apr 2022)

Channel 4 is good. Probably why they are selling it off - to shut it up.
Guardian is past it and very feeble. Make more sense to read the Times but be cautious about taking anything for granted.
Can't say I'm bothered about BBC english. Regional accents tend to stay the same but so-called "proper" english accents change quite a lot - listen to old newscasts, they don't half sound plummy and out of date!


----------



## Adam W. (26 Apr 2022)

News reporting has always been biased, so I try and listen to, or read as much information as possible and make my own mind up.


----------



## RobinBHM (26 Apr 2022)

I get frustrated by the lack of scrutiny that interviewers do on MPs these days

It also annoys me that there is a lack of transparency -BBC and other news channels have people on programmes that are introduced as "experts" but its not mentioned when they work for think tanks which are really lobby groups -so their answers are biased, but we are given to think they are non partisan experts in the field.


----------



## RobinBHM (26 Apr 2022)

these days you cant even trust fact checkers


----------



## RobinBHM (26 Apr 2022)

Aunt Nellies facebook page is the only source I fully trust


----------



## MARK.B. (26 Apr 2022)

I get my news from my wife and she is always right


----------



## Terry - Somerset (26 Apr 2022)

I have a generally very low opinion of the news media who seem to:

select stories based on maximising audience (print or TV), 
dumb down the presentation close to a lowest common denominator
use emotion rather than rational analysis to drive the presentation
seem intent on creating a political agenda rather than reporting upon it
The only paper which consistently seems to report objectively is the Financial Times - possibly because unambiguous thoughtful report and analysis is the key to making the best financial decisions - the main reason the paper exists.


----------



## Sandyn (26 Apr 2022)

I am absolutely sick of listening to 'news' . Being half deaf is a great benefit to me It means if I don't focus on what's being said I can ignore the TV. All the news programs and discussion programs about the news each presenting some view based on political bias. It's a mental assault.


----------



## selectortone (26 Apr 2022)

I'm forwarding this to all the main news outlets because I'm sure that a bunch of grumpy old men on a woodworking forum is smack in the middle of the demographic they're aiming at.


----------



## TRITON (26 Apr 2022)

This is my handy little news resource 
All the newspapers for the Planet of Earth. 





UK Newspapers Online and Worldwide Newspapers in English;International News Sites/Links; Business News


Online Newspapers in he United Kingdom and Major International Newspapers on the Internet with English Versions, News International News Links/Sites/Websites



www.thebigproject.co.uk


----------



## thetyreman (26 Apr 2022)

I didn't like news even as a child, right up to present day, I'm particularly sick of how climate change is forced into every single programme and every single opportunity they get, another thing is the obsession with news presenters as celebrities, this needs to stop right now, if anything it just makes me dislike them even more because they aren't worthy of celebrity status, they just present the news.


----------



## Garden Shed Projects (26 Apr 2022)

TRITON said:


> This is my handy little news resource
> All the newspapers for the Planet of Earth.
> 
> 
> ...


Thats an interesting link. Have you found any news outlets that are less biased than the UK? I am so dissolutioned with the way that recent world events have been covered, sensationalist head lines with the caviat 'A source claims' being the norm. It would be refreshing to find somewhere that just reports the facts.


----------



## Jacob (26 Apr 2022)

thetyreman said:


> I didn't like news even as a child, right up to present day, I'm particularly sick of how climate change is forced into every single programme and every single opportunity they get, another thing is the obsession with news presenters as celebrities, this needs to stop right now, if anything it just makes me dislike them even more because they aren't worthy of celebrity status, they just present the news.


I don't think climate change is forced on us enough. We are probably past the point of no return, 20 or more years too late to do anything.


----------



## dzj (26 Apr 2022)

As a young lad, I'd listen to the bbc and voa on am radio, thinking it was the bees knees.
Nowadays, I'm more in the “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required” camp.
(Yes, it's a joke...but you get the idea)


----------



## Jacob (26 Apr 2022)

dzj said:


> As a young lad, I'd listen to the bbc and voa on am radio, thinking it was the bees knees.
> Nowadays, I'm more in the “Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required” camp.
> (Yes, it's a joke...but you get the idea)


BBC news is very establishment biased but they make up for it with lots of interesting discussion progs and documentaries about issues. You have to search them out - Radio Times mag is good.
e.g. Laurie Taylor Thinking Aloud or current affairs; Putin


----------



## dzj (26 Apr 2022)

Jacob said:


> BBC news is very establishment biased but they make up for it with lots of interesting discussion progs and documentaries about issues. You have to search them out - Radio Times mag is good.
> e.g. Laurie Taylor Thinking Aloud or current affairs; Putin


We like Attenborough . Lions eating gazelles and such... Excellent diction!


----------



## Spectric (26 Apr 2022)

Jacob is right, we are more than likely past the point of being able to recover from the damage we have caused and all because the people in positions of power don't want to rock the boat or upset what ever years they have left, if they can complete their lives without major impact then they just leave the issues to the next generation. There was a program the other morning about the oil giants and their scientist were talking about the impacts they would have on the planet thirty years ago but rather than come clean they just funded the people who would support conspiracy theories instead because there was a lot of money to be made. To solve global warming you need to solve global greed but how many wealthy people have strings attached to the media so as to sway opinion in the right direction, it is not only politicians who are corrupt and use the media to deliver misleading info. How often do you see reporters puting their stance on a topic rather than being neutral, happens all to often and all to clear to see what side a reporter is on, they need reigning in and just deliver the facts without bias or opinion. The news is happy to cover the Boris saga and that he has lied and misled parliament but what about Boris lying to the world at COP26 where he was preaching to others about the use of dirty fossil fuels and yet it looks like he is happy to resume coal mining in Cumbria, that has not made the news so obviously there must be certain criteria and global warming and the enviroment are just fill ins when there is nothing else.


----------



## Jacob (26 Apr 2022)

dzj said:


> We like Attenborough . Lions eating gazelles and such... Excellent diction!


Yes he's very watchable. Can't stand the background music though - seems to be even worse with Attenborough. If I wanted to listen to mad irrelevant music whilst watching a documentary I could play my own banjo! 
It ought to be optional like sub-titles but there would be no takers I think.


----------



## Spectric (26 Apr 2022)

dzj said:


> We like Attenborough . Lions eating gazelles and such


That made me think of all the Tv advertisments we get for sponsoring animals that are being targeted by poachers, lions, tigers, Rhino's etc and asking for money to help support their cause which has no hope of solving the problem. What they need is to sponsor some merceneries who will target the poachers, that would make some real news, I wonder what reporters they would use to cover the story!


----------



## Sandyn (26 Apr 2022)

Spectric said:


> What they need is to sponsor some merceneries who will target the poachers, that would make some real news, I wonder what reporters they would use to cover the story!


I'm never going to poach another egg again!!!


----------



## Kittyhawk (26 Apr 2022)

News, here in NZ anyway, is all pineapples.
News and current affairs programmes invariably end with the announcer, presenter or whatever they're called these days concluding with some variation of 'and that's our show for tonight...'
I suppose 'show' is factually correct because that's all it is - entertainment dished out to titillate the feeble minded.

It was meant to read bo!!ocks but apparently that's a naughty word.


----------



## ey_tony (27 Apr 2022)

I certainly wouldn't trust either the BBC nor the Channel 4 news teams to report in an unbiased manner especially when it comes to politics and the Conservative party, not that I'm a Conservative supporter myself I might point out.
Far from it in fact as I'm not a fan of the current government and to be honest I don't often watch the usual UK news sources if I want unbiased news reporting but when I do watch them, it's patently obvious that the news invariably contains gratuitous anti-Boris and anti-Conservative messages.

It's not hard to see why.
Both the BBC and Channel 4 are in the sights of the government for selling off so it's in their interests to get rid of the threat and what better way than to continually broadcast negative news reports.

I've never understood why we have to pay for a television licence which is effectively a tax which criminalises the poorest in society for not being able to afford additional costs so that the BBC mandarins can live the lavish life to which they have been accustomed.

If we are to pay a TV licence then fine but the taxes raised should be shared out equally with all broadcasters and not just given to one broadcasting body.

Yes the BBC does good work with regard public service broadcasting and it along with other programs from independent broadcasters should be funded specifically for doing so but if the BBC wants to avoid resorting to commercial advertising for funding as with other commercial stations then let it be a subscription only service so that those who wish to watch BBC programming can opt in to their service rather than forcing everyone to pay an outdated wealth tax which in this day and age of hugely rising inflation, is just another thing for the poorest to struggle to pay.


----------



## flying haggis (27 Apr 2022)

Re the TV licence, I disagree with having to pay for a licence to watch any channel but only the BBC gets the money. To me it is akin to buying a daily express through choice but also having to buy a copy of the guardian at the same time. ( other papers are available!)


----------



## johnny (27 Apr 2022)

Terry - Somerset said:


> I have a generally very low opinion of the news media who seem to:
> 
> select stories based on maximising audience (print or TV),
> dumb down the presentation close to a lowest common denominator
> ...


couldn't agree more Terry ....I'm also fed up with MP's and others being harassed and grilled by reporters to ridiculous lengths in an effort to make them trip up or say something innocent that can be misrepresented or manipulated to say something they didn't mean. I'm all for accountability but how is how that News ?


----------



## MikeJhn (27 Apr 2022)

deema said:


> I’m sufficiently old to remember the news being read out in BBC English so that you didn’t have to interpret different regional accents and allowed everyone a good chance of understanding what’s being said. Now, ah nawt agin ah dialect bein a tyke me-sen.


BBC English may have been a bit plummy, but at lest you could understand them, on Southern Television we have a programme announcer who sounds like his dentures are loose, children learn how to talk by listening, is it any wonder a large proportion of teenagers have appalling diction and heavily stylised speech and mannerisms.


----------



## Spectric (27 Apr 2022)

MikeJhn said:


> is it any wonder the majority of teenagers have appalling diction and heavily stylised speech.


Do they actually speak anymore, I thought that they all communicate via devices so removing the need for social interaction. If you look at the parents they are busy starring at their phone and the poor kid is just ignored, they are missing out on so much which us older folk took for granted, our childhood.


----------



## MikeK (27 Apr 2022)

Gentlemen...I removed at least 14 climate change posts in this thread and removed a couple other posts that violated the UKW rules. Please stay on topic, or the thread will be closed.


----------



## Crazy Dave (27 Apr 2022)

MikeK said:


> Gentlemen...I removed at least 14 climate change posts in this thread and removed a couple other posts that violated the UKW rules. Please stay on topic, or the thread will be closed.


Mike,
Apologies for posting off topic.
I did get drawn in as the environment is a topic very close to my heart but please help me here, you didn't consider the TV licence to be equally as off topic even though the environment is a far more important and urgent issue and IMO should get as much News exposure as possible.


----------



## MikeK (27 Apr 2022)

Crazy Dave said:


> Mike,
> Apologies for posting off topic.
> I did get drawn in as the environment is a topic very close to my heart but please help me here, you didn't consider the TV licence to be equally as off topic even though the environment is a far more important and urgent issue and IMO should get as much News exposure as possible.


Historically, topics about climate change, politics, and religion generate as much controversy as sharpening threads and have resulted in members being suspended and banned. Since sharpening is a core UKW topic, we have more tolerance for the discussions. So far, TV licence topics haven't created many problems, but if it does cause the thread to spin out of control, we'll respond. 

Deema's original post was about the presentation and accuracy of the news, not specific content.


----------



## Crazy Dave (27 Apr 2022)

MikeK said:


> Historically, topics about climate change, politics, and religion generate as much controversy as sharpening threads and have resulted in members being suspended and banned. Since sharpening is a core UKW topic, we have more tolerance for the discussions. So far, TV licence topics haven't created many problems, but if it does cause the thread to spin out of control, we'll respond.
> 
> Deema's original post was about the presentation and accuracy of the news, not specific content.


Now I understand, thank you.


----------



## ey_tony (27 Apr 2022)

With regard to reporting news. 
What I'd like to see is more scrutiny of the private lives and professionalism of the TV reporters and presenters for a change, many of whom it seems take a delight in harassing and effectively vilifying MPs etc who they very often ambush during an interview about something completely different in order to get a 'story'!

These people are in a position of power which can change public perceptions/views both fairly and very often unfairly and they too should be held to account.
If news editors in charge have any political leanings, then they should be removed from their posts or strictly censured for the sake of removing bias from news reports. That wouldn't stop them from reporting news but it should prevent the constant biased slant I observe in many reports on a daily basis.

They all want to be Jeremy Paxman it seems and make a name for themselves in order to further their careers so let's put them under the spotlight for a change.
We all saw the ugly side of sewer rat journalism with Bashir and the Lady D interview and I'm sure he was just the tip of the iceberg so what's good for the goose.....


----------



## thetyreman (27 Apr 2022)

it's the subject itself, when you talk about news it's not easy to not talk about politics and contentious issues, I find it difficult to talk about the BBC for example without talking about their right leaning bias, which seems to be completely ignored by most people.


----------



## Jameshow (27 Apr 2022)

thetyreman said:


> it's the subject itself, when you talk about news it's not easy to not talk about politics and contentious issues, I find it difficult to talk about the BBC for example without talking about their right leaning bias, which seems to be completely ignored by most people.


I thought they are left leaning!


----------



## flying haggis (27 Apr 2022)

Jacob said:


> Yes he's very watchable. Can't stand the background music though - seems to be even worse with Attenborough. If I wanted to listen to mad irrelevant music whilst watching a documentary I could play my own banjo!
> It ought to be optional like sub-titles but there would be no takers I think.


would be nice if we could have the music and no attenborough whispering comments as a choice.

If I remember correctly the bbc tried with wimbledon once to just have the court sounds and no commentary, it was great but of course it meant that the commentators aka past it players didnt get to waffle on and on and on.......


----------



## Spectric (27 Apr 2022)

MikeK said:


> Historically, topics about climate change, politics, and religion generate as much controversy as sharpening threads


Politics and religon are easy to grasp, but climate change cannot be as controversal, as far as I am aware there have been no wars about climate change. Then sharpening, how can that be a controversal subject included with religon and politic's because it is just sharpening, sharp tools cut and blunt ones don't so nothing to get upset about but I dare say plenty to learn from the woodworking sharpeners.


----------



## MikeJhn (27 Apr 2022)

flying haggis said:


> would be nice if we could have the music and no attenborough whispering comments as a choice.
> 
> If I remember correctly the bbc tried with wimbledon once to just have the court sounds and no commentary, it was great but of course it meant that the commentators aka past it players didnt get to waffle on and on and on.......


Or continue to be paid an extortionate amount of money for commenting on something we can all see and hear, and continue to supplement their mega pensions.


----------



## Sachakins (27 Apr 2022)

In war truth is always the first casualty, in today's world news was the first casualty of truth!

They were called reporters, they just reported what happened, then
They were called journalists, they just journalised the opinion, then
They were called presenters, the just present what they are given, then
They were called commentators, spouting a diatribe commentary without fact, now
They should be called "pineapples" for all the "pineapple taking" they do


They were supposed to report the headlines, not make them!
They should be the first against the wall when the revolution comes!


----------



## woodieallen (27 Apr 2022)

BBC World Service is a mine of information and well-researched items. BBC and ITV News I find too lightweight and full of soundbites. Channel 4 is cringingly 'woke', hand-wringing and 'virtue signalling' for my taste.


----------



## Jacob (28 Apr 2022)

woodieallen said:


> BBC World Service is a mine of information and well-researched items. BBC and ITV News I find too lightweight and full of soundbites. Channel 4 is cringingly 'woke', hand-wringing and 'virtue signalling' for my taste.


Yes C4 can annoy all the right people!* And a good thing too IMHO.
*no pun intended! 
There's a very healthy trend of non-news but topical and intelligent "woke" content/comment in R4 and R3, from Start the Week onwards


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

Are you standing again in the local elections, Jacob?


----------



## Jacob (28 Apr 2022)

woodieallen said:


> Are you standing again in the local elections, Jacob?


No. I only stood once as a paper (i.e. no chance) candidate in the Parliamentary elections. Interesting but no ambitions in that direction!


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

What shame. I am sure that your talents would be appreciated. After all, labour does need all the help it can get ! As do the Tories. And I'm not too sure about the LibDems either


----------



## Jacob (28 Apr 2022)

woodieallen said:


> What shame. I am sure that your talents would be appreciated. After all, labour does need all the help it can get ! As do the Tories. And I'm not too sure about the LibDems either


I am poised ready for the knock on the door!


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

LOL....I didn't think the Monster Raving Loony Party operated that far North.


----------



## DerekJohn (28 Apr 2022)

The BBC TV news has been unwatchable for about ten years - I use Al Jazeera who have some great documentaries and proper in depth news analysis. I used to enjoy RT (for amusement factor) but that has been shut off as has CCTV.
Channel 4 is / was great but even the Radio 4 Today program has descended into reporting pop music and emotional drivel.
Ah bring back Jack Demanio


----------



## Phill05 (28 Apr 2022)

Caught the BBC TV breakfast news this morning and a very interesting talk Ben Wallace Defence minister gave, he could be one to watch for top job in the UK.


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

Phill05 said:


> Caught the BBC TV breakfast news this morning and a very interesting talk Ben Wallace Defence minister gave, he could be one to watch for top job in the UK.


Agree with you 100%. Just goes to show that it should be compulsory for any MP of whichever persuasion to actually have held a 'proper' job before standing for Parliament. Too many of them are career politicians and IMO add very little.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (28 Apr 2022)

^^^^ that goes for teaching as well.


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> ^^^^ that goes for teaching as well.


Why do you say that ? I know of many excellent teachers where teaching was their vocation.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (28 Apr 2022)

I knew many lousy life long teachers as well.
Because far too many have unrealistic expectations for their pupils in the job real world employment market for one thing. An old friend is a retired teacher who worked in industry til he was thirty+ and he said the same, as did my brother in law only a couple of nights ago. He was a shipyard joiner until he trained to teach at nearly fifty, he retires in a year or two (as head of D.T.) and maintains that one of the worst things about the school where he teaches (in NZ) is that he is the only teacher there ever to have a job outside teaching. A letter in a newspaper a while back was from an elderly gentleman who went to school during WW2 - he said he was more fortunate than most as he was taught woodwork by a retired cabinet maker and metalwork by a retired blacksmith.


----------



## woodieallen (28 Apr 2022)

That's as maybe. I had many very good teachers. You can't tar them all with the same brush. One could apply your same argument to any job or profession. Maybe you think that no-one should become a doctor unless they've worked somewhere else for a number of years first ?


----------



## Phil Pascoe (28 Apr 2022)

Doctors aren't teaching.


----------



## selectortone (28 Apr 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> ^^^^ that goes for teaching as well.


Bit of a sweeping generalisation there Phil.

My daughter has been teaching A Level English for the last fifteen years in a mixed comprehensive and it has been really heartwarming to read the letters she has received over the years from ex- pupils thanking her for their time under her tutelage. It can be hard work but she takes her job very seriously and I'm extremely proud of her.


----------



## joethedrummer (28 Apr 2022)

thetyreman said:


> I didn't like news even as a child, right up to present day, I'm particularly sick of how climate change is forced into every single programme and every single opportunity they get, another thing is the obsession with news presenters as celebrities, this needs to stop right now, if anything it just makes me dislike them even more because they aren't worthy of celebrity status, they just present the news.


,,Oh so right and they make it all sound like they are giving us the benefit of their great knowledge,, yeah right on,,,


----------



## Terry - Somerset (28 Apr 2022)

Just looked up the IPSOS veracity (trust to tell the truth) index - the views expressed by the forum are far from unusual. 

The final four below estate agents and business leaders are journalists, government ministers, politicians generally, and in last place advertising executives.

I'm not sure what advertising execs have done so wrong as to place them below the other three!


----------



## J-G (28 Apr 2022)

Terry - Somerset said:


> I'm not sure what advertising execs have done so wrong as to place them below the other three!


That's easy - - - they take 'lying' to the extreme


----------



## carry book (28 Apr 2022)

ey_tony said:


> I certainly wouldn't trust either the BBC nor the Channel 4 news teams to report in an unbiased manner especially when it comes to politics and the Conservative party, not that I'm a Conservative supporter myself I might point out.
> Far from it in fact as I'm not a fan of the current government and to be honest I don't often watch the usual UK news sources if I want unbiased news reporting but when I do watch them, it's patently obvious that the news invariably contains gratuitous anti-Boris and anti-Conservative messages.
> 
> It's not hard to see why.
> ...



The only news channel worth watching is GB news


----------



## cmoops2 (28 Apr 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Doctors aren't teaching.


REALLY !!!


----------



## DavidConnelly (29 Apr 2022)

Indeed.
Today we have "News for dummies" 
There appears to be no integrity at all. Cheap one liner soundbites and worse than that, extremely poor puns. Condescension is the name if the game. All is taken to the lowest common denominator. 
A story about fuel will be filmed outside a filling station just in case we have difficulty interpreting the story. The BBC is the worst for this.


----------



## Blackswanwood (29 Apr 2022)

Given the breadth of personal opinions in society it must be very difficult for any news organisation to gain broad appeal and approval of their coverage.

The strength of news in the UK imho is that there is plenty of it so it's not that difficult to get different perspectives. Imperfect though it my be I'd much rather have to filter out what I don't agree with/feel is dross than have the Chinese or Russian model for news delivery.


----------



## Johnwa (29 Apr 2022)

Just to get back to the topic of the tv licence. The licence is not there to allow you to watch the BBC, it is actually issued as permission to receive television and radio signals in the uk. It was a government of the days decision to use the licence fee to fund the BBC. You do not pay the licence fee to aunty but to the government who then fund the BBC. Pedantry over


----------



## Keith Cocker (29 Apr 2022)

carry book said:


> The only news channel worth watching is GB news


It’s funny how some people still believe what Farage says bears any resemblance to the truth.


----------



## Fordgate1 (29 Apr 2022)

I would rather have the BBC and Itv than the Daily Mail.


----------



## Keith Cocker (29 Apr 2022)

Fordgate1 said:


> I would rather have the BBC and Itv than the Daily Mail.



Id rather have used toilet paper than the Daily Mail.


----------



## Jacob (29 Apr 2022)

Keith Cocker said:


> It’s funny how some people still believe what Farage says bears any resemblance to the truth.


He was keen on the Rwanda concentration camp idea.


----------



## deema (30 Apr 2022)

I feel that change for the better can only come about by having a general consensus and a common view in society about what is descent and honourable. That’s not the same as everyone agreeing with a the way forward. Feelings and a common consensus can be manipulated and used to divide rather than unite. We now seem to live in a society where facts have little value and it’s opinion leaders who hold sway. A free and Independant media has throughout history been the catalyst of change and for holding people or institutions to account. For me it’s a slippery slope we are on where as a society we are, I believe, becoming increasing distrustful of the press or the facts that are being presented. 

I find it difficult to understand how we are drifting into a situation where freedom of speech, expression of ideas or concepts are being prohibited regardless of how controversial they may seem today. After all, it’s not that long ago slavery was accepted, women didn’t have the vote and we imprisoned and sometimes chemically treated anyone not heterosexual. It was the minority who held a different view, and were able to be heard that brought about change through the presentation of facts. What is of concern is that the media is leading and encouraging the charge down the rabbit hole. In all situations all major changes for the better has been led by the dispersal of facts not opinions. 

There will always be extreme views, after all a Gaussian curve defines anything normal. We will always have the 6 sigma extremes on every opinion, what used to happen is the media helped to pull society around from drifting/ sleep walking to either extreme position; right or left. Using maths as the example, if you start chopping out parts of the Gaussian curve, it’s no longer normal, it becomes extreme by definition, it needs all of its parts to be in balance. The curve is only as representative of the population as the data that is used to create it. Hence the overwhelming frustration that real factual based news seems to suffering the fate of the dinosaur. 

What has happened historically is when any part of society becomes isolated, facts affecting it being presented distorted or relying on opinions terrible consequences quickly follow.


----------



## Spectric (30 Apr 2022)

I think we now have a situation like how the Americans would hide the truth, rather than just deny something outright they would ensure many other versions of the story would surface along with dozens of conspiracy theories so that no one knew who to believe, this also involved a lot of discrediting of the sources. The truth is still there but no one can find it amongst everything else, if you make it so unbelievable then very few will believe.



woodieallen said:


> LOL....I didn't think the Monster Raving Loony Party operated that far North.


No they are actually in Westminster and doing a very bad job of running the country!


----------

