# Any advice for making some money from woodworking?



## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Good afternoon all,

My wife's just had a baby and has given up work and I'm not likely to get a promotion any time soon, so I'd love to be able to make some extra money through woodworking.

It's a big hobby of mine and something I would like to do instead of my day job (much more job satisfaction!) but I couldn't just give up my current job and GO FOR IT because I don't think the mortgage company would be too chuffed if I couldn't pay the mortgage...

So, my question is do any other people here make a reasonable second income from woodworking? Do any of you have good suggestions for things to make / ways to go about getting customers etc?

The things I have thought of already are:

- Placing an ad in the local A5 "Local Trader" type booklet for making radiator covers. I could make custom sized covers, perhaps specialising in childrens rooms (customise with names, favourite characters etc). Could probably sell them for about £125 each finished and fitted and if my shop was set up correctly it wouldn't take me too long to build them.

- Making some solid oak furniture (I've got a tree seasoning in my back garden...!) such as lamp tables, coffee tables and try selling them on ebay. Not sure how much they would go for but I could give it a go and see what people would be prepared to pay - from what I've seen quite simple, contemporary designs are going for reasonable sums of money and they are generally imported stuff. Some solid English oak hand crafted furniture would probably go down well, but with ebay you're never quite sure how successful it would be and I do feel it might 'devalue' the product a bit.

Any other thoughts / experiences / suggestions from you all?!

Cheers

Gary


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## Adam (17 May 2007)

Gary S":13ojnfqi said:


> Any other thoughts / experiences / suggestions from you all?! Cheers Gary



Write some magazine articles on the things you are building. Take good work-in-progress shots, and it'll pay for some additional tools/odd holiday etc.

Plenty of people on here have dipped there toe in - Steve Maskery, Philly, Tony..... the list is endless actually - I'll stop now in case I miss someone important and they take offense! - this forum must be keeping the projects section of most magazines alive!

Adam


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Adam":1lj1pj7e said:


> Write some magazine articles on the things you are building. Take good work-in-progress shots, and it'll pay for some additional tools/odd holiday etc.Adam



Adam,

Like the sound of that, but what's the best process to approach the magazines (approach them WITH an article or approach them ABOUT writing an article), and what mags are best to go for (are there good / bad ones to approach).

What approximate sum of money would they pay for articles then - are you talking a few hundred quid? If so that's much more than I thought it would be!

Cheers

Gary


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## wizer (17 May 2007)

Gary for your first article I would advise you write something up and then approach a magazine.

I think the articles get edited quite heavily by the mag after you have written them

As for making money as a sideline, it's been discussed at length before and I think the best advice is not to expect too much. Build for friends, family, colleagues, etc. Build a good word of mouth rep.


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

WiZeR":d9ja5eud said:


> I think the best advice is not to expect too much.



Absolutely - whilst I'd love to do it full time I realise that's not likely to be an option! Anything that supplements my income and helps to minimise of my wife's maternity leave will be very welcome!!


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## Adam (17 May 2007)

I'd contact them first - see what they say. They have preferences for photos - how to set them up - for lighting - how you are positioned in them - type of camera format etc. Or they may send someone out to you.

I'd suggest Andy King as a good starting point. Hes a nice chap and will give you all the in-depth information you need.

Adam


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## Anonymous (17 May 2007)

Gary

just contact one of the editors in a mag that appears to have proejcts at the level you intend to write. if your projects are aimed at.
Mark Ramuz is a good first contact although he can be hard to get hold of and doesn't answer emails too quickly


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Thanks for the advice, guys - I'll certainly give it a go.

Cheers

Gary


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## Scrit (17 May 2007)

Gary

Remember if you do make money from it you'll need to carry both product liability insurance and also (if you install) personal liability insurance. Not to have insurance could be a big headache if anything goes wrong

Scrit


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Scrit":cz9k54jp said:


> Gary
> 
> Remember if you do make money from it you'll need to carry both product liability insurance and also (if you install) personal liability insurance. Not to have insurance could be a big headache if anything goes wrong
> 
> Scrit



As ever from you, Scrit, a very sound piece of advice (if that sounds sarcastic it *honestly* isn't meant to!).

It wasn't something I'd thought about - but is definitely something I would have to do if I was selling and installing rad covers in peoples homes. Any guidance on what it might cost and the best places to get it from (or is that a "how long is a piece of string" type question...!).

Cheers

Gary


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## ByronBlack (17 May 2007)

How about selling that Oak of yours?

A serious suggestion though - Make some solid oak lamp tables, like the ones made from railway sleepers, these always go for good money on ebay and extremely easy to make.. just a big ol'lump of wood with some chamfering on the edges - or butt joint 4 pieces into a rectangular box and fill with something heavy, add a top and your done.

You could do fireplaces - much cheaper to make than buying from someone like B&Q (I'm doing one for my dear old mum).

Garden gates etc.. Can be made out of softwood as they get painted/stained - very quick to make a picket style gate and you could flog them quite cheaply and still make a profit.

Kitchen fitting? You could make up the cabinets and install..

Park benches - can sell to pubs, restuarants, hotels, parks, etc etc..


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## Freetochat (17 May 2007)

Wasn't a shop planned down your way for items to be displayed and sold on behalf of the maker. I don't know how far that idea was carried forward?


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

ByronBlack":5bndggrm said:


> How about selling that Oak of yours?



Been there, tried that, got slammed!! :lol: 



ByronBlack":5bndggrm said:


> A serious suggestion though ... snip



Some great suggestions there, particularly the lamp tables. Something that's quite quick to build, relatively simple and VERY saleable would be great.

Picnic tables for pubs / restaurants is a great idea too.

Plenty for me to think about there...

Cheers

Gary


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## Steve Maskery (17 May 2007)

Gary

1 Forget it.

2 OK, you'd like a longer, more constructive answer, would you?

To make money from woodwork, you do not have to be a good woodworker (although, of course, it does help somewhat!) but you DO have to be a businessman.

Doing a proper business plan for a venture is scary - I've done many, which is why I don't have a proper business, but I live in hope.

By all means write up your articles. Any of the mags will send you guidelines if you ask, they always want new blood. You'll need a decent camera and you'll also have to learn how to light your workshop. It's not always easy when cameras do all the exposure stuff for you. Windows are a pain and can wreck an otherwise nice photo.

You'll not get rich by writing. You might get £80 per page, you might get more, you might get less. The less they have to edit it the more bargaining power you have. Yes they do edit. Hard. Articles have to be made to fit a space.

You'll also have to provide drawings. You'll spend lots of time getting it right, then it'll get put through a fax machine, all your carefully colour-coded information will be erased and a ghost of your work will appear, people will say "I don't understand that" and it will have your name on it.

My woodwork has NEVER made a profit of any kind. But it doesn't cost me anything either, so I see it having a hobby that is cost neutral. It means that if I need a new machine then there is the money there to buy it. Routine things like sharpening all come out of the woody pot. Doing this video has meant that the pot has taken something of a hit in the last 8 months or so, but essentially when I need woody money it has been there. I'm much less prolific now than I was a couple of years ago, so maybe that is going to change now that there is no backlog of my work to publish, but it's been a good few years.

As for making and selling, just remember that making something is the easy bit, selling it for a decent profit, ah, now there's the challenge.

Of course, if you want to make kitchens, then that is one area where people are prepared to spend sensible amounts of money (they won't buy oak but they will happily buy chipboard), but for me, there are only so many boxes one can make and stay sane.

There have been several threads on here about how much to charge for work, so we'll not do that again, but my advice is, keep it as a hobby, sell what you can, write about it all, and expect nothing in return. Then every penny will be a welcome bonus.

Cheers
Sanguine Steve


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## Scrit (17 May 2007)

Gary S":1x1v75dn said:


> Any guidance on what it might cost and the best places to get it from (or is that a "how long is a piece of string" type question...!).


£1million public liability should be a ton or less. Product liability is more down to inclusion in a complete package

Byron, much as I admire your enthusiasm I'd point out that a number of your suggestions are impracticable. Fire places normally go hand in hand with installation - and that requires the appropriate certification to install them. And I'd forget about trying to sell to pubs and restaurants - if you look around a lot of thes items they buy are from the Far East or are made in large volumes at minimal cost - been there, done that - unless you can find a small local restaurant who want and are willing to pay for something bespoke you have little chance of cracking the market. Similarly kitchens are a market where installation and planning ara a part of the package - a difficult market to crack.



Steve Maskery":1x1v75dn said:


> As for making and selling, just remember that making something is the easy bit, selling it for a decent profit, ah, now there's the challenge.


Spot on! Doing stuff for friends and family is all very well. Doing it to pay, well....... But there is something to be said for looking at what stuff can't be had locally and yet people want - stuff which is easy to make, but doesn't get you into installing (and the liability thing) - oh, like rabbit hutches, dog kennels, garden gates, made-to-measure window boxes, etc. Look around in your vicinity and you may see what I mean

Scrit


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Steve Maskery":3fnw0ppl said:


> Gary
> To make money from woodwork, you do not have to be a good woodworker (although, of course, it does help somewhat!) but you DO have to be a businessman.



Maybe my Accounting and Finance degree will come in handy then :wink: 

I'm actually a management accountant by trade so the 'business plan' side of thing wouldn't really scare me, but since it can't be my business I'll certainly adopt the approach that it IS a hobby and IF I can make any money out of it then it's a bonus.

Having said that I won't know unless I try - nobody is just going to give me money for spending time in my workshop! I'll see where I go with the magazine route and see what work I can make and sell locally - starting off with friends of friends and seeing where that takes me.

I don't expect to retire off the income - if it supports my woody habit then that's fine by me!

"You don't fail until you stop trying" - I heard that on Grand Designs a few weeks back and thought that was a pretty good motto to work to in many aspects of life.

Cheers

Gary


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## Steve Maskery (17 May 2007)

Gary S":2xfin0l6 said:


> Maybe my Accounting and Finance degree will come in handy then :wink:



It certainly will! That's the best start you could have.

And the rest of your attitude is right, too. And I hope that doesn't sound patronizing, it's not meant to.

Very best wishes.
Steve


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## Chris Knight (17 May 2007)

My local garden centre has stuff you could put together with a chainsaw and a nail gun - bird feeders etc and they are asking silly prices, £50-60 for some of them and I reckon that you could knock out 20 a day without breaking sweat. Of course they probably only pay a fiver for them!


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## Steve Maskery (17 May 2007)

waterhead37":2b34gjrp said:


> Of course they probably only pay a fiver for them!



And that is the problem in a nutshell.

S


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## Alf (17 May 2007)

I seem to recall a tale in the the tail end of GWW some years back from the once-prolific Tony/Anthony/A.R. Evans (I have a strong recollection that he was published under at least three names in one issue once upon a time...) Anyway, he got a nice little earner going making mock-tudor birdhouses. Apparently he went round possible outlets with a car full of his wares and tried to get them to take some. If they were reluctant he'd suggest just leaving one and see how it went. Then he'd send his wife in who'd fall over the thing with cries of delight, could she buy half a dozen etc? Cue 'phone call from eager shop owner wishing to buy a load there and then. I'm absolutely not suggesting such duplicity (and to be honest I was a little surprised at the time that it got published) but you might have to get a bit "pro-active"...

As far as articles are concerned, if you have any pride in your ability to write, forget it. Editors seem largely incapable of reading so it's so many pearls before swine. The more I hear of the article business the more it seems everyone loses out; writer _and_ reader. The things we'll all do for money.  Heigh ho. If it wasn't for the lousy exchange rate at the moment I'd suggest Lee Valley's newsletter as another possible place to submit stuff - anyone with a garden-related project would probably be popular, judging by what their editor said to me a couple of months ago. All my outdoor projects seem to self-destruct, so I wasn't able to oblige.  :lol:

Cheers, Alf


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## DomValente (17 May 2007)

I started with a workshop in an area where I new nobody.
The trick, I think, is to make the best possible furniture you can and sell it to the right people, i.e. high profile people. You will only need a couple to start with and if your work is good enough the ball will roll.
I know your area and I sell a lot of furniture in Hadley Wood(get the picture) 
Besides all the other difficulties that have been pointed out I wouldn't go for the mass market, the Chinese have that sewn up. You can't do kitchens from home so stick to good quality expensive pieces, time is not an issue when it's a hobby.

Good luck

Dom


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

Steve Maskery":1evicjme said:


> Gary S":1evicjme said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe my Accounting and Finance degree will come in handy then :wink:
> ...



I didn't take it as patronising at all - thanks for your best wishes! 

Gary


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## Gary S (17 May 2007)

DomValente":t92osilv said:


> I know your area and I sell a lot of furniture in Hadley Wood(get the picture)



I get the picture, indeed...

My wife works at a private all girls school - the daughters of premiership footballers, big businessman and so on - the kind of people that earn in a week more than I earn in a year  

I wonder if they'd like me to build some furniture for them... :roll: 

Failing that - if you need another pair of hands, Dom, when you're trying to make furniture for all those rich Hadley Woodlians then give me a shout!

Cheers

Gary


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## Scrit (17 May 2007)

Gary S":y9qnk9fh said:


> I wonder if they'd like me to build some furniture for them... :roll:


Perhaps not, but you might well find them receptive to smaller items such a jewlery boxes, humidors, etc. as a sort of "thin end of the wedge" approach

Scrit


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## Bodrighy (17 May 2007)

I am not trying to earn money, I haven't even got the nerve to ask people to buy my stuff as I don't think it is really good enough to sell. Despite this, as people find out that I turn wood, they ask to see something and when they see the nice little bowls I slaved over to get a good finish they say, "oh very nice." Then they see the quirky thing I played around with and made out of a wormy piece of wood from a stream they ask, "how much." The point is that if there is a market I reckon it is in those areas that are different, unique and that you won't see in MFI or Habitat or wherever. Theoretically at least, there are people who will pay for something that is different but not for everyday things. Like Steve, my ambition is to make enough to buy those tools etc thta I need. I doubt I'll ever make enough to live on. It would stop being fun then :lol: 

Pete


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## matt (17 May 2007)

Make "nice" towel rails that are large enough to comfortably hold enough towels for a normal sized family.

There you, that's it, my closely guarded gem of an idea - yours for the taking... If you make millions, remember me...

Small "cabinets" to conceal outside taps, complete with insulation. 
Damn, there goes another one...


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## woodbloke (18 May 2007)

Gary - I'm with Steve on this one. I've had the odd article published in one of the mags and provided it's the *right sort of stuff*, editors will usually snap it up. Photography is an issue but much easier now with digital cameras, I just send in a load on a disc shot under different lighting conditions and then they can pick the ones that suit and if you can include pics with yourself it it that's even better. They will edit, but in my experience, not too heavily. The knack is to write in such a way as to inform but not ramble, about 350 words per page is about right and if you can make the text a little bit witty or insightful that helps as well. Working drawings (orthographic, exploded and isometric) are essential so you need to know your way around a drawing board. At the end of the jour, I don't make anything from it but the cheques go into the woodypot for new kit but the best bit for me is the buzz from seeing your article in print and maybe on the front cover in WHS - Rob


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## Steve Maskery (18 May 2007)

woodbloke":1de2wamd said:


> ... and maybe on the front cover in WHS - Rob



Only four times


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## Adam (18 May 2007)

Steve Maskery":3rc3e2bu said:


> You'll also have to provide drawings. You'll spend lots of time getting it right, then it'll get put through a fax machine, all your carefully colour-coded information will be erased and a ghost of your work will appear, people will say "I don't understand that" and it will have your name on it.



I have to say I take the opposite view. The drawings, being the most time consuming is the thing I hate the most. I send in a hand sketch, maybe one sheet, maybe two, with an extra CD (so the illustrator can have a copy of the work-in-progress shots), and just note the key dimensions on them. I've decided its not effective to do anything more advanced - they don't use them anyway. Each "writer" they have has their own peculiarity - I, for example, insist on writing in the first person, send crappy drawings but have good work in progress shots, and other authors have slightly different sets of strengths and weaknesses. Don't get hung up on drawings - you'd be amazed what they can whip up from a rough hand sketch.

No doubt they tell you to send in "good" drawings - they don't get a cutting list from me either - given I don't actually have one! 

Adam


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## Anonymous (18 May 2007)

Gary

I know a few people who majke momney on the side form woodworking

One makes bird tables and has an outlet for thsoe (try nurseries etc.) and the another makes planters

I think you should consider the implications of knocking something up for a low price time and time again - could be very tedious and boring


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## lurker (18 May 2007)

Gary S,

I don't understand your original post.

You say you are short of money, then you say you are an accountant, I thought all accountants earned pots!

Jim - just off to see the £$*$%* company bean counter who has queried my expenses :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Gary S (18 May 2007)

Tony":j8932y1j said:


> I think you should consider the implications of knocking something up for a low price time and time again - could be very tedious and boring



Very true - I'd rather not go down the 'mass production' route where you don't make much per item but make lots of items. Things like bird tables would be great because you can customise and change them as you build them and (hopefully!) not get too bored doing it. I'm a fully paid up member of the RSPB too so it would tick that box as well :lol: 

Cheers

Gary


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## ike (18 May 2007)

Keep it as a hobby. Drop the word around friends and neighbours - the proceeds can go towards more tools (or even baby milk I suppose :roll: ). I've covered the cost of my workshop and tools that way over several years. Keep it low key and preferably cash the taxman is unlikely to find out. :wink: 

I'm constantly astonished by utter wooden rubbish sold in the sheds/shops/garden centres. Either that or something of ordinary 'OK' quality has a ripoff sticker price on it. Either way there are always some people willing to pay for decent quality handmade substitutes. Find a couple of those and word of mouth hopefully will get you a steady trickle of projects.

cheers,

Ike


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## devonwoody (18 May 2007)

Gary, be careful, an unfriendly resident in the road might make telephone calls to the ??????????? or the ????????
Your house insurance company could turn nasty if there is any sort of claim,

Even the water board would want business rates on their bill.


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## Gary S (18 May 2007)

devonwoody":arz9ouih said:


> Gary, be careful, an unfriendly resident in the road might make telephone calls to the ??????????? or the ????????
> Your house insurance company could turn nasty if there is any sort of claim,
> 
> Even the water board would want business rates on their bill.



I don't use water when I'm woodworking?! 

Just kidding - it's a valid point, as Scrit made before, and if it was to become more than just making odd bits for family and friends then I would have to seriously have to consider liability insurance and everything else that goes with it.


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## devonwoody (18 May 2007)

oddly enough if you have water connected but not used for the trade you are in they still want the higher rate, or used too.


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## Gary S (18 May 2007)

devonwoody":30c1ikvi said:


> oddly enough if you have water connected but not used for the trade you are in they still want the higher rate, or used too.



Probably the dastardly ACCOUNTANTS who work for the water companies trying to stitch everyone up.

If all else fails blame the accountants... :wink:


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## woodbloke (18 May 2007)

Adam":1h3zxdxy said:


> Steve Maskery":1h3zxdxy said:
> 
> 
> > You'll also have to provide drawings. You'll spend lots of time getting it right, then it'll get put through a fax machine, all your carefully colour-coded information will be erased and a ghost of your work will appear, people will say "I don't understand that" and it will have your name on it.
> ...



The mag that I write for (F&C) have _insisted_ on decent drawings with dimensions, not just something done on the back of a fag packet. The working drawings that have been sent in have usually been reproduced accurately, or the information contained within them used to make, for example, a much better 3D exploded drawing (case in point is the avatar jewelry box) If you don't send in decent drawings then there is a really good chance that your project will be badly projected in the mag.
It's worth considering that the whole point of a working drawing is that it should contain _everything_ that another individual needs to know to make the article and should be presented in a clear and unambiguous way so that there is absolutely no confusion about the content of the drawing - Rob


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## Adam (18 May 2007)

woodbloke":3vpjctkx said:


> It's worth considering that the whole point of a working drawing is that it should contain _everything_ that another individual needs to know to make the article and should be presented in a clear and unambiguous way so that there is absolutely no confusion about the content of the drawing - Rob



I realise that, but as Steve said, certain magazines don't make use of the detailed info - so why bother! If they insist and they were used - then yes, maybe I'd consider it. On the other hand, why does a hand sketch need to be any less informative to the draughtsperson that they use to draw it up and make an exploded view? Generations of designs were hand sketched by engineers etc and then passed to a drawing department to be drawn up by a draughtsman. Given it will be re-drawn / changed to suit the magazine I find that a sketch, with key dimensions is all they should need to work out the rest - espcially if they have a set of WIP photos. Indicate the length of one tenon on a table for example, and they should work out it applies to all - no need to detail it several time. Perhaps for readers yes, but these drawing departments attached to magazines are probably well versed in this sort of stuff now.

Adam


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## woodbloke (18 May 2007)

Adam":3flbthu7 said:


> woodbloke":3flbthu7 said:
> 
> 
> > It's worth considering that the whole point of a working drawing is that it should contain _everything_ that another individual needs to know to make the article and should be presented in a clear and unambiguous way so that there is absolutely no confusion about the content of the drawing - Rob
> ...



Adam - I understand what you are saying, however when an engineer, say, made a quick sketch of a component to be drawn up in the drawing dept it would have _always_ gone back to the originator for final approval and authentication before general use. My point is that proper working drawing(s) should be able to be sent to any person in any part of the world (who can understand English) and the component or job should should be able to be built without them having to 'work out the rest'.

To labour my point still further, imagine for a moment if Rolls-Royce sub contracted Pratt & Whitney in the USA to make the RB211 turbojet (the current version of which is fitted into BA 747s) or even part of it and only gave them the rough outline drawings and then said ..."here you are chaps, rough outline only I afraid, but you're 'Murricans, you can work out the rest of the engine and see what needs to be done" :shock: 

Good, unambiguous working drawings are fundamental to good engineering and manufacture. They are another form of communication and should IMHO be done and presented to the best of your ability.....if you don't know how to, that's a different argument - Rob


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## Adam (18 May 2007)

woodbloke":1v6ylxl8 said:


> it would have _always_ gone back to the originator for final approval and authentication before general use.



Yes, and if they returned a copy for me to review I would. They have rung me for the odd dimension I've missed before.



> My point is that proper working drawing(s) should be able to be sent to any person in any part of the world (who can understand English) and the component or job should should be able to be built without them having to 'work out the rest'.



I'm not arguing that, I'm saying whose responsibility is it to generate them. If you are happy to do that on behalf of your magazine, and feel you fee reflects that - then great. I'm saying you can expect them to have a good stab at it, based on some rough sketches, but the overall output, once they have worked on it, should be approximately the same. Good working drawings. I don't wish to produce them, as it would take longer than the project itself (given I don't work to plans), and don't mind if thats reflected in my fee.



woodbloke":1v6ylxl8 said:


> To labour my point still further, imagine for a moment if Rolls-Royce sub contracted Pratt & Whitney in the USA to make the RB211 turbojet (the current version of which is fitted into BA 747s) or even part of it and only gave them the rough outline drawings and then said ..."here you are chaps, rough outline only I afraid, but you're 'Murricans, you can work out the rest of the engine and see what needs to be done" :shock:



I don't see the relevance to this? We are talking about small woodworking magazines, and the difference between you sending perfect drawings and for them to be altered, redrawn and amended, or you send them a sketch, only for it to be altered, redrawn and amended. I know which I'd rather do!



> Good, unambiguous working drawings are fundamental to good engineering and manufacture. They are another form of communication and should IMHO be done and presented to the best of your ability.....if you don't know how to, that's a different argument - Rob



99% in my CAD module thankyou 8). They said they wouldn't give 100% regardless of it was perfect. Maybe its a difference in philosophy. I'm out to enjoy my hobby and make a odd few quid from an article - therefore if I get bogged down in writing and drawings it takes the edge off it. I'm doing it for "play" money. If the magazine will take a sketch, I see no reason to go any further, given I know they are going to re-draw / amend / alter the drawings to how they want it in there "style" for the magazine. They never present them as actual CAD drawings in most magazines that I've seen, despite that being the potentially best format to have them in.

Adam


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## Gary S (18 May 2007)

Rob":3uwj627n said:


> To labour my point still further, imagine for a moment if Rolls-Royce sub contracted Pratt & Whitney in the USA to make the RB211 turbojet (the current version of which is fitted into BA 747s) or even part of it and only gave them the rough outline drawings and then said ..."here you are chaps, rough outline only I afraid, but you're 'Murricans, you can work out the rest of the engine and see what needs to be done" :shock:



With respect, Rob, a piece of high tech engineering like a turbo jet is slightly different to a plan for a coffee table...!!

Whilst I think it's imperative to have a guide as to the dimensions of the piece and things like the thickness of the wood and lengths of tenons, I don't think it needs to be of engineering-type accuracy for someone to make one themselves. Most of the plans I've built from I've 'tweaked' a bit along the way to make personal preference adjustments.

The outcome was that the project was still successful and I was happy with the outcome - it would be a dangerous thing for someone building a turbojet engine to do though, "Oh, sorry - I just fancied adding an extra propellor, I thought it looked nicer!" :shock:


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## Anonymous (18 May 2007)

Gary S":1xiwmr26 said:


> Most people live to their means I guess, and when you get promotions and pay rises you tend to get a slightly nicer car or a slightly bigger house.



Ain't that the truth :shock: 

Our joint income is 12 times what we got when we married, but I'm still as broke  Nicer cars and much bigger house though (+ kids) - and there's the LNs of course.........  


Out of interest, what's the national average income? 50-60K for both working?


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## woodbloke (18 May 2007)

Gary S":1mynbn58 said:


> Rob":1mynbn58 said:
> 
> 
> > To labour my point still further, imagine for a moment if Rolls-Royce sub contracted Pratt & Whitney in the USA to make the RB211 turbojet (the current version of which is fitted into BA 747s) or even part of it and only gave them the rough outline drawings and then said ..."here you are chaps, rough outline only I afraid, but you're 'Murricans, you can work out the rest of the engine and see what needs to be done" :shock:
> ...



OK....the point is *hugely* OTT and as I said, laboured, but for me anyway, good working drawings for something that I do is important and I think the underlying principle is sound, that is if you want to effectively communicate your ideas to a third party then a good set of working drawings is essential. With just rough and ready sketch all sorts of problems might arise which wouldn't be there if a decent set of drawings were to hand. As ever, I appreciate that we all have our different ways of doing things but a respectable set of drawings has always been part of my making process - Rob


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## Scrums (19 May 2007)

I think Steve Maskery's original post was about the closest to the truth.....I'd like to think that Dom is right too.....but then I'm an optomist.

As for the Water Board, they want their bit from me, I don't have water (_..well, it comes from some dead pigeon infested tank 3 floors up)_, I don't have mains drainage, I don't have any gutters/downpipes that actually work.....but they want money for '....taking away surface water'

Chris.


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## mr (20 May 2007)

Tony":2aeljxj1 said:


> Out of interest, what's the national average income? 50-60K for both working?



'05-'06 national figures show an average household income after tax and benefits of approx £26K 

Cheers Mike


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