# How to make money from woodworking?



## psycho_grizz (3 Jan 2015)

Weekend warrior here, so far everything I've built up to date is for myself or the family. however, if I wanted to make money to at the very least recuperate my costs from buying so many tools, how could i go about it?

Strictly a hobbyist here with no formal carpentry training. Do you guys sell stuff on etsy? Go to crafts fairs? car boot sales even? 

American forums says stuff like clothes pegs and chopping boards sell very well and as much as I'm loving the woodworking and I can appreciate how much time, patience and expertise goes into making furniture, I can't see how anyone would want to spend hundreds on furniture as oppose to cheap IKEA crud. Thats how I started actually, couldn't justify buying a king size bed so I made one myself. 

Grizz


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## rdesign (3 Jan 2015)

u find the ten percent who have disposable income and want something that is quality, bespoke, the thing they have perfectly in mind for a space.
unfortunately in Ireland those people r hard to find. in america its a lot easier no questions asked at 50 dollars an hour 30 percent extra on materials and 20% on the whole cost for contingency. 

if u want quality and true style and designer look they will pay, but not easy to make a name or get those jobs need to know people like realtors and interior designers.

hope that helps i'm a poor woodwork teacher as its less stressful and more reliable regards.


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## Baldhead (3 Jan 2015)

Check out the Scrollsaw section, or search Chipygeoff's posts, there's a few scrollers who sell at craft fairs, Chippygeoff gave a lot of tips on what sells and how to sell at craft fairs. I don't think it will make you rich, but it should mean you can recoup some if not all of your costs.

HTH

Baldhead


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## James C (3 Jan 2015)

Having been dragged to a few craft fairs in various places before Christmas I have seen a variety of people selling items they have made. Most of it tends to be turned bowls or bandsawn boxes.

Chopping boards are another one. I saw one bloke lay down £120 for a chopping board that was basically a 2' by 1' Waney Edged board that was 1" Thick. I asked the maker about their process and aside from not revealing their secret finishing recipes they admitted that the board was just drum sanded and finished.


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## Random Orbital Bob (3 Jan 2015)

That's Jamie Oliver for you!


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## blackrodd (3 Jan 2015)

As most of the Joiner and cabinet maker members will tell you, it's not easy running a workshop etc, etc, 
If you are just looking for a small return, the easyiest would be to make two tables, or beds etc. and sell one.
Do some research as to what the buyers are wanting, and make another to sell, remembering that you're particular tastes might not sell too well in some circumstances.
Then, you need to know where are you selling it.
When you see, for instance, a raw chipboard , round topped table 12" across, with a cloth thrown over it for £29.99 selling well in B&Q, a while ago, It's a bit of a mystery!
HTH. Regards Rodders


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## [email protected] (3 Jan 2015)

ignore "Ikea Crud" at your peril IMO. For the money, much of their stuff are very decent products. We bought a pine kitchen table and 4 pine chairs 10 yrs ago for £99 from Ikea. Structurally its still faultless! If I was making furniture, it would be fitted furniture only...


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## wizard (3 Jan 2015)

I make a few bird tables and nest boxes when I can get free wood but the best profit is kindling wood


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## DTR (3 Jan 2015)

The way to make a small fortune in woodworking is to start with a large fortune.....


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## nanscombe (3 Jan 2015)

How to make money from woodworking?

Work for someone else?  :wink:


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## doctor Bob (3 Jan 2015)

I like IKEA, great designs.


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## Steve Maskery (3 Jan 2015)

I made a set of dining chairs nearly 20 years ago. I still have two of them. Theyare American Cherry and to3 months to make, as a set.

A friend of mine saw them and said, enthusiastically, "Wow, they look fantastic, that's just like what you would buy in IKEA".

The only reason I didn't bludgeon him to death there and then is that I realised that he meant it as a compliment.

For some strange reason we are still friends.


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## blackrodd (3 Jan 2015)

DTR":1r1zrrqz said:


> The way to make a small fortune in woodworking is to start with a large fortune.....




Well said   Rodders


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## PAC1 (4 Jan 2015)

It is a reality of modern living people will pay handsomely for a new Kitchen or fitted bedroom but all free standing furniture is compared to IKEA. The reason why people will pay £29.99 for a piece of chipboard shaped like a table is because when fashion changes they can throw it in the skip and get the new fashion. Very few people will pay for craftsmanship in furniture. Even at the top end just look how many of our top craftsmen provide training courses to supplement or in some cases replace their reliance on selling furniture.
If you can sell choping boards for several tens of pound good luck


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## markturner (4 Jan 2015)

I would agree with all previous sentiment.....Unless you are a well set up, experienced workshop, making kitchens or basic built in furniture, its extremely difficult. I use a guy who just specialises in what I described, its rinse wash repeat and he has it off pat. He does OK, I give him at least £100K of business a year. I have another friend who does more complex and varied stuff - He struggles constantly to keep his business going and I dont use him, as he is too expensive once I have marked his stuff up......I think you need to assume you will never make anything more than the occasional sale of stuff and treat it purely as a hobby in the set up you have described. I am based in London, where there is much more of a market than in Wales and its still incredibly tricky to get people to pay realistic money for handmade stuff.
Sad fact of life I am afraid !


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## DiscoStu (4 Jan 2015)

Our CEO has just had a barn converted and has had solid oak floors fitted and an oak staircase made as well as bespoke shelving in the library and study (I suspect you're getting the idea). He has obviously paid for this workmanship so there are people who will. However i earn what you would call a decent salary and I could never justify that expense. It's not a fashion thing, just that there are so many higher priorities in my life that I would spend money on. I live in a modern house and it doesn't really lend itself to lots of built in furniture so not only is it a low priority it's also not something I would ever do in this house. I guess the flip side is that he has just paid a small fortune to have it done so there are people who do still want / need hand built craftsmanship. I buy a lot of furniture from ikea because it matches each other and is well built and lasts. Sure it's not solid oak but I bought some Malm drawers a few years ago £35 for 3 drawers and they still look like new and run smoothly. I couldn't justify £400 for oak ones. I'm even finding just the cost of wood so expensive that it puts me off my hobby. I'm waiting for a quote back for some Iroko and I fear that it might be so costly it puts me off my project (outdoor bench).


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## Cheshirechappie (4 Jan 2015)

DTR":3oxtk6z8 said:


> The way to make a small fortune in woodworking is to start with a large fortune.....



=D> Absolutely right! I gather that quite a few aspiring 'designer makers' came from very well remunerated backgrounds - " I've had enough of the City now I've made my pile, and I want to do something more worthwhile". That's great, but try doing it without the comfort and security of a City pile in the bank....

One difference between an amateur and a professional (in many walks of life) is that the amateur practices until they get it right, and the professional keeps going until they can do it very fast indeed and can't get it wrong. You can make a living doing it the professional way, but unless you're a very slick salesman and brilliant at finding mugs with too much money, not the amateur way.

Enjoy woodworking. It's creative, theraputic and deeply rewarding - for an amateur. It's intensely competitive, highly demanding and (once all the business expenses are paid and time expended reckoned in) generally pretty low-paid for the professionals.


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## Rhossydd (4 Jan 2015)

psycho_grizz":3usfptdj said:


> Weekend warrior here, so far everything I've built up to date is for myself or the family. however, if I wanted to make money to at the very least recuperate my costs from buying so many tools, how could i go about it?
> Strictly a hobbyist here with no formal carpentry training. Do you guys sell stuff on etsy? Go to crafts fairs? car boot sales even?


Go and look what actually sells at this sort events and whether you'd make any profit...... be honest and realistic.


> American forums says


and they know what sells in the UK ?

From what I've seen, there's virtually no way to just sell a little to cover your costs from amateur woodworking. It's either a full on endevour or a hobby.

You might be able to sell some turned work at craft fairs that will cover the costs of having a stall and the costs of the timber, but you'd be very lucky to generate enough profit to cover tooling costs. It might just be regarded as a fun way of getting rid of surplus projects after all your friends are fed up with receiving gifts ;-)
Scrollers seem to be in a similar situation.

Trying to sell home made furniture seems doomed to failure too. Just the timber costs are greater than most people buy flat packs for.

I enjoy working wood and just have to accept it costs money to do. I've saved myself money by making my own windows and furniture, which is sort of a justification for the expenditure on tooling.


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## bourbon (4 Jan 2015)

I belong to a Medieval re-enactment group who specialize in the atrizan crafts of the period. Our carpenter makes authentic oak boxes, cost wise they start mid three figures. He is often told ' I can buy a box from Homebase for £25' His reply is go and buy it then, I can't get the wood for that.


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## nanscombe (4 Jan 2015)

Cheeky customers wanting everything so cheap. :evil: 

Do they think the wood just grows on trees or something.


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## RobinBHM (4 Jan 2015)

I think there are very few if any cabinetmakers making free standing furniture for a living. However there is a definite market for fitted furniture: bedroom, living room and kitchen. 

It is possible for a one man band to compete against Sharps, Neville Johnson etc, especially if they can work from a home workshop with minimal overheads. The Festool type track saws that are available now can allow cacassing to be made in even the smallest workshop.


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## marcros (4 Jan 2015)

I think the op was looking more for ideas to sell at craft fairs or similar, rather than to make a living. Probably looking for an outlet for the fruits of his labour as much as trying to meet an hourly rate for the weekend.


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## Rhossydd (4 Jan 2015)

marcros":u0xccjm9 said:


> I think the op was looking more for ideas to sell at craft fairs or similar, rather than to make a living.


that's what he said ;-) The problem is that what sells at craft fairs and the like might not be the sort of projects you'd choose to make for pleasure. Then it just becomes drudgery to offset expenditure, which would seem to defeat the whole point of taking woodwork up as a hobby anyway.

Then there's issues of CE marks, being able to prove the safety of finishes etc. Not impossible, but judging by the protracted threads these issues generate here occasionally, it's the legalese that stops it being as simple as 'make it, sell it'
Sellers at boot fairs might not ask too many questions, but they also don't pay much money either.

I'd suggest that picking up tools at boot fairs, refurbishing them and selling them on eBay could be more profitable than actual woodwork for the 'weekend warrior'.


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## marcros (4 Jan 2015)

I agree that you can probably make more from buying and selling tools and/or machines even.


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## Krysstel (5 Jan 2015)

James C":pbdp26dq said:


> Having been dragged to a few craft fairs in various places before Christmas I have seen a variety of people selling items they have made. Most of it tends to be turned bowls or bandsawn boxes.
> 
> Chopping boards are another one. I saw one bloke lay down £120 for a chopping board that was basically a 2' by 1' Waney Edged board that was 1" Thick. I asked the maker about their process and aside from not revealing their secret finishing recipes they admitted that the board was just drum sanded and finished.




I was in Berlin just before Christmas and in the biggest Christmas market there was a guy selling nothing but chopping boards and similar stuff. The medium sized long grain stripey ones went (I say "went" but I actually never saw money change hands) for 250 euros. Each. He also had small coasters for a mear 30 euros :shock: . The large, end grain chopping boards were unpriced. I would have asked questions but couldn't fight my way through the hoard of people - picture borrowed from the markets online page ! It was by far the most visited stand I saw in the whole market. Another guy was selling plain, flat beech boards for 120 euros.

Mark


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## custard (5 Jan 2015)

Even as a hobbyist, where there's no overhead component in your costing, you'll struggle to make money on anything remotely mainstream. To stand a chance you've got to get into more specialist areas where the Ikea comparison no longer exists,

-Painted or part painted furniture to _precisely_ match the customer's existing (Farrow & Ball!) decor
-Children's furniture, chairs, desks, toy boxes. There's more of a willingness to spend a bit more if it's for kids, at least from (some) wealthier parents!
-Free standing furniture that's none the less made to non standard dimensions, the perfect occasional table for a specific alcove etc
-Waney edge/live edge furniture with all the Nakishima bells and whistles like butterfly keys, I find I can sell pretty much all I can make, the real problem is finding exceptional quality live edge boards
-Yachting furniture and fittings (cockpit tables, folding teak chairs)
-Sports and hobbies accessories (musical instrument boxes, cookery book stands, etc)

You get the picture, follow the path less travelled. But two other points,

1. If you're the average weekend woodbutcher then your skills probably aren't up to it, in which case enjoy your hobby but work hard at getting better, and the simple fact is that just making a couple of softwood spice racks each year won't get you up the learning curve to commercial standards fast enough.
2. Whatever your make it's probably only the wealthiest 10% or less of the population who will fall into your market. If that's not the circles you move in then you need a plan to contact them.

Good luck!


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## Benchwayze (5 Jan 2015)

Just buy some decent softwood, at a decent price, and make some 'Country-Kitchen' shelf units/cupboards, complete with Shaker pegs, and handles. Maybe augment your range with a stool or two, or kitchen chairs, and you're golden. ) Offload it on eBay. 

If I could turn out enough of that stuff, I would finish the workshop make-over and get stuck in. Trouble is, if you build up a demand, you are stuck with working your life away! At this end of the 'coil', it's a bit too much. :mrgreen:


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## custard (5 Jan 2015)

Benchwayze":4av1bxmv said:


> Just buy some decent softwood, at a decent price, and make some 'Country-Kitchen' shelf units/cupboards, complete with Shaker pegs, and handles. Maybe augment your range with a stool or two, or kitchen chairs, and you're golden. ) Offload it on eBay.
> 
> If I could turn out enough of that stuff, I would finish the workshop make-over and get stuck in. Trouble is, if you build up a demand, you are stuck with working your life away! At this end of the 'coil', it's a bit too much. :mrgreen:



But the economics of this are just terrible, it'd make more financial sense to spend your weekends flipping burgers or working in a petrol station.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-READY-TO ... 2a4a2c2f96

Benchwayze, but there's no point in you ever making and selling furniture, you'd be way better off selling your very professional watercolours. Nice job!


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## Silas Gull (5 Jan 2015)

I'm sure you'll think of something that'll pay for a few chisels.


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## TRITON (5 Jan 2015)

Look for something that can be made reasonable quickly and employ jigs etc for small production runs. Chopping boards as suggested but look more to bottom end pricing than 250 euros :shock: Amazing what some people will buy.
But even chopping boards need a certain level of machinery.

Theres some great examples on you tube.


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## Benchwayze (5 Jan 2015)

custard":2ubycmwh said:


> Benchwayze":2ubycmwh said:
> 
> 
> > Benchwayze, but there's no point in you ever making and selling furniture OUCHERRRR! :shock:
> ...



Errr. Thanks custard! I think! 
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## rafezetter (6 Jan 2015)

Steve Maskery":57o515w0 said:


> I made a set of dining chairs nearly 20 years ago. I still have two of them. Theyare American Cherry and to3 months to make, as a set.
> 
> A friend of mine saw them and said, enthusiastically, "Wow, they look fantastic, that's just like what you would buy in IKEA".
> 
> ...



Still might be worth "accidentally" spilling your pint over him at least once, just to clear the ether...


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## rafezetter (6 Jan 2015)

Rhossydd":v7ttxd93 said:


> Trying to sell home made furniture seems doomed to failure too. Just the timber costs are greater than most people buy flat packs for



I was at a friends over Xmas and he was talking about me making him a large coffee table with storage similar to one he already had but in dark wood and larger...

"A bit like this he said..." and showed me a brochure of a place in wales that imports mangowood furniture and treats them natural / light / dark - the coffee table (more box really) was around 4ft wide x 2ft deep and 1.5 ft high with 9 drawers in.

The price was about £250, DELIVERED.

He wanted it cheaper than that.

It's the same guy I made that stand for I posted in "last thing you made" (or in my photo bucket, link at bottom: Paul's Stand) - he said I should pick something online he could buy me as a thank you, "for £20 or so", not much more to say really....

He's not even a cheapskate, he just so ensconced in the "flat pack generation" as he's the same age as me, 45, he has no understanding of what's involved, not even after reading my detailed description of how I made it.

Incidentally I didn't pick anything as I figured every time I saw it, I'd just be annoyed by it.


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## Sheffield Tony (7 Jan 2015)

I have turned a hobby into a business once (electronics/automation), and would resist the temptation to do it again. As a hobby, it is always fun or you wouldn't be doing it. As a job, you have to do it, and it soon looses the joy. And the fixed cost overheads (like insurance etc) mean you can only be competitive by working full time (or more).

There's been a few mentions of chopping boards. I rather enjoyed making one for myself. My niece wanted one like it, and so I made 5 for family at christmas. Strips of steamed beech, glued together, planed flat, corners rounded, groove and well carved, by hand. By number 5, I was still working on Christmas eve, and not enjoying it nearly so much as I did number 1 !


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## cusimar9 (7 Jan 2015)

Having just bought a new kitchen it's clear there would be good money to be made in bespoke kitchens. Magnet quoted me about £15k+ for a kitchen with oak doors, I nearly fell off my chair!


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## PortersWood (7 Jan 2015)

With the cost of timber it's almost worth buying solid wood flat pack just to use the wood for something else let alone try and turn a profit as a weekend woodworker. I certainly have given up on the idyllic dream of selling on the occasional piece of furniture to cover materials costs and a little towards the tool fund. 

Personally I make little boxes as the wife likes them and I know I can move them on. My desire to make furniture has had to be scaled back to items for my own house and friends and family who at least appreciate the difference between hand made and mass produced. 

I have so much respect for those who make a living this way.


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## mindthatwhatouch (11 Jan 2015)

rafezetter":1d5s8kb8 said:


> It's the same guy I made that stand for I posted in "last thing you made" (or in my photo bucket, link at bottom: Paul's Stand) - he said I should pick something online he could buy me as a thank you, "for £20 or so", not much more to say really....
> 
> He's not even a cheapskate, he just so ensconced in the "flat pack generation" as he's the same age as me, 45, he has no understanding of what's involved, not even after reading my detailed description of how I made it.
> 
> Incidentally I didn't pick anything as I figured every time I saw it, I'd just be annoyed by it.



It's a nice stand, I am sure you enjoyed making it and your friend is enjoying using it.

Pick yourself something nice that you would not justify £20 on, a marking knife, dovetail gauge whatever and enjoy it.

just an idea.


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## heimlaga (11 Jan 2015)

I have found that for a person working in the building trade it is possible to get a decent side income making the odd one off door and wondow and piece of joinery and built in furniture. The basis is that there are no marketing costs and that you do not have to be the lowest bidder if you get the job done when it is needed. It is not worth the effort for a site foreman or a house owner to spend a full day searching for the lowest bidder on a job that takes two days work and then wait 8 months for delivery with all the delays it may cause to the project. It is easier for them to just ask "the guy who makes joinery at home" and pay a prize that maybe is 30 or 50 or 50 percent higher and get the job done next week.
Some understand this and some don't.... but I don't have to work for those who don't want to pay.
There isn't much money in it but with minimized costs I can make a small profit. Barely enough to make it worth the effort.
Minimizing costs is an art in itself.


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## Mark A (11 Jan 2015)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SALE-READY-TO ... 2a4a2c2f96

A lot of stuff like this is imported from Malaysia and Indonesia. Likewise, so are the driftwood ornaments and dangly things sold in the shabby chic/seasidy boutiques around where I live. 

I've looked into making some of it myself because the style is so popular right now, but there's no way I can compete with southeast Asian MDF imports.


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Jan 2015)

There are people selling "Cornish" made silver jewelry - my geography must be dreadful, I didn't realise that Cornwall was actually a part of India.


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## glynster (11 Jan 2015)

There a LOT of money to be made in woodworking - just not how you might at first think. It's a multi-billion pound industry but we're the end of the line, we're the consumer. If you want to make money from woodworking you need to develop a new jig, tool, DVD or widget and then market it and sell it. 

It's often said that the only people who made real money in the American goldrush are those who sold the miners their picks and shovels, the hotel owners and the haulage companies - they all got rich and many are still big profitable companies today. Furniture as a "problem for humanity" has been solved by industrial automation - there is no need for handmade anymore and those who might want it are simply not realists most of the time. Furniture is a commodity - its price is based on the average cost of similar items so your prices will always struggle against Oak Furniture Land's average price - you wont win.

If you do make handmade, bespoke furniture for heavens sake make sure it looks it - DONT make it look manufactured - people will pay more for roughly hewn green oak table full of knots and with visible joinery that looks very craftsman and "handmade" than they might for a beautiful walnut one - we live in a world where walnut simply means brown stain, nobody other than you and us will ever appreciate its true beauty and the hard work and skill involved.

If I were you I'd invent a jig, make it and sell it. Here's a free idea for you, I recently thought I'd buy a scratch stock - cant be bought anywhere, unless you shell out £100 for a Veritas beading tool. They could be made cheaply and easily and they would sell because nobody ever has enough tools. Just remember the golden rule of marketing to hobbyists - 90% of them are beginners. The further you go down the rabbit hole in any interest or hobby the more you will forget that.


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## Benchwayze (11 Jan 2015)

What are you saying Glyn? 
Are you advising us to work down to a sub-standard, just so it looks 'hand-made'? That doesn't make sense, when you see items of superb furniture being sold to people with 'taste', for thousands of pounds a time. 

Anything I make that wasn't as good as I could make it wouldn't be sold on. That's why 'shabby-chic' is anathema to me. If I make a pine cupboard and sell it, let the new owners distress it at their will. I won't. 

As for making money at woodworking, one of the best ways is to write about it, (or produce quality DVDs on the subject.) Problem is you have to be good! 
You certainly won't get far there, by 'bishoping' your dovetails, to make therm look 'rough-hewn'.

Come on Glyn. You know the liking for rough-hewn fashion is just that; a fashion, a fad or a trend, fostered by ' interior designers' who watch too much reality television. Nothing more. 

If being unrealistic means preferring well-made, attractive and long lasting furniture, then I am unrealistic. I'm just a fantasist who lives in the past. 8) 


Cheers and all the best. 

John


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## Doris (11 Jan 2015)

Just make these from your offcuts and you will laughing, I'm sure this seller is.

https://www.etsy.com/transaction/231730 ... hop_review


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## condeesteso (11 Jan 2015)

Interesting topic, I wonder if there is a bit of a pattern: one-off handmade high quality free-standing - very difficult as the true costs (time in particular) drive the price too high for almost all. Simple things we tend to frown upon can do well: chopping boards, the wany-edge boards used as table centrepieces - easy and probably nicely profitable. Built-in/fitted stuff is popular and I think people will pay, not everyone of course.
Basically I suppose that the further you can get from comparisons with IKEA and Oak F'land, the better. Developing economies of scale by doing batch runs of something using jigs etc will help reduce the time costs, but it will become a chore I suppose.
One thing I noticed, companies will pay where individuals won't. Last year I did 8 big tables for a film company - best job of the year... and most tedious. There's a moral there maybe.


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## wizard (16 Jan 2015)

clothes pegs must be a good earner :wink:


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## Golden Hands (24 Nov 2015)

psycho_grizz":3o5mtdc0 said:


> Weekend warrior here, so far everything I've built up to date is for myself or the family. however, if I wanted to make money to at the very least recuperate my costs from buying so many tools, how could i go about it?
> 
> Strictly a hobbyist here with no formal carpentry training. Do you guys sell stuff on etsy? Go to crafts fairs? car boot sales even?
> 
> ...



Hi,
Here is the way, make wooden dust and shavings as much as you can per day.
Pack it tight in bags, and sell to horse farmers they pay very well for a few bags 
Great money for dust, in a few years you will be a millionaire, try.


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## Penfold (24 Nov 2015)

Make a nice table and put a very very good printer on it then scan some fifty pound notes .......................................


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## Halo Jones (25 Nov 2015)

With a friend my wife and set up a pop-up Christmas shop/craft fair/tea reoom last year. We spent months making stock (wooden christmas decorations, reindeer, hot water bottle covers etc) and sold about 70%. We more than broke even on that part of the affair but if you count up the hours we did it for less than minimum wage. Where we did make a decent profit was selling the tea coffee and cake!

So the crafty stuff was a loss leader and the profit was in the cake #-o


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## Benchwayze (25 Nov 2015)

Halo, 

The moral of the story being: People will always NEED food. They will often WANT a nice treat! :lol: 

Cheers


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## No skills (25 Nov 2015)

Well folks we have finally reached the answer to the op's question...

To make money from woodwork you need to make wooden cakes.


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## Steve Jones (25 Nov 2015)

Some of us already do :mrgreen:


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## Wildman (25 Nov 2015)

what on earth do you use those for


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## Steve Jones (25 Nov 2015)

I cut them on the cnc for crafters to decorate, those particular ones are 4mm MDF 

Cheers

Steve


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## RobinBHM (25 Nov 2015)

They look a bit pasty, you need to put them in the oven a bit longer till golden brown


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