# SketchUp users et al.



## SketchUp Guru

Just thought I'd share a drawing I did in SU yesterday. The cabinet is from an article in the current issue of FWW and the vase was added just for fun. It was rendered in Kerkythea, a free and simple application. This was one of my first renders.

SU users might want to investigate Kerkythea.


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## Shady

Very nice indeed: is that a 'stock' wood grain, or one you've made yourself?


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## Scott

Wow! :shock:


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## SketchUp Guru

Thank you.

the grain is the stock cherry. I edit the directional textures from SU or other found textures to create both a horizontal and vertical version. This saves me from adjusting the textures in SU later. The editing is simply a matter of opening the image in a photo editor, rotating it 90° and saving it again.


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## Chris Knight

Dave,
That is terrific - you have really got SU licked!


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## Neil

Very nice, Dave - I'll definitely check out Kerkythea if this is the quality of work that you (with a big emphasis on 'you' :lol can produce. Thanks!

Cheers,
Neil


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## tim

> the grain is the stock cherry. I edit the directional textures from SU or other found textures to create both a horizontal and vertical version. This saves me from adjusting the textures in SU later. The editing is simply a matter of opening the image in a photo editor, rotating it 90° and saving it again.



Good thinking Dave - I must do that.

I haven't used this but a quick search reveals a tutorial vid at the su forum:



tutorial

and links to the main site:

site

Cheers

Tim


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## SketchUp Guru

Thanks again for the compliments guys.

Neil, you should be able to do the same or better. I'm not doing anything too amazing. It's just a matter of having the right tools.

Tim, thanks too for posting those links.

Dave


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## tim

I had a look at the video thinking it can't be so complicated to do this render thing. :shock: :shock: 

Looks pretty convoluted to me although judging by Dave's pic, well worth the effort. I think it will require a good few hours to get used to the process.

Dave, how long did it take you to get to grips with it? Did you have any previous experience of this type of stuff?

Cheers

Tim


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## SketchUp Guru

Tim, I just downloaded Kerkythea on Friday evening. I played with it a little without making much sense of it. Then I looked at a PDF tutorial from the site which made some sense. After that I started playing with it a little more on Sunday.

I still don't quite understand all the settings and what they do but I did figure out a couple of important things. They were mainly covered in that video tutorial as well.

1. Make "lights" in SU. For the cabinet, I drew a wall behind it and a ceiling. the ceiling acts as a bit of a reflector. I drew a rectangle on the ceiling above the cabinet to act as a light. I also drew a couple of rectangle out in space in front of the cabinet that became light sources. You can see the reflection of the larger one in the vase. Rather than naming colors as emitters as shown in the video, I just painted them with colors that I didn't use elsewhere. That made them easy to identify when editing the materials in K. I gave each light source a different color in SU so I could edit them independently in K.

2. When rendering, start with a small image size. When you press the Render button you get a little dialog box. I use current view for the camera, 200x 200 for early render tests saves time. Then I set the third drop down box to .05 ( I think) which is a very simple render. It gives a kind of grainy image but once you're happy with where shadows are and how bright things are, toy can make changes.

3. Make only one or two changes at a time so you can keep track.

The cabinet was drawn in about 45 minutes in SU, then over the course of an hour and a half, I played with rendering. Once you get to where you are doing higher quality renders you can start the process and walk away for a while.


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## martyn2

dave you seem to have a good grasps on the software  being in Rochester, MN USA
you would be near that little known computer company (IBM) would you :?:

Martyn


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## SketchUp Guru

Martyn, I only live about a mile from Big Blue's front door but I work for the larger employer in Rochester.


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## LyNx

Nice job Dave.

Best excuse in the book that one, "it's just rendering" whilst he looks over the magazines :wink: 

Andy


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## Alf

Coo, I dunno, is it worth even putting plane to wood any more? Virtual woodworking - in the warm and dry!  Brilliant, Dave.

Cheers, Alf


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## martyn2

Dave R":206mfxsa said:


> Martyn, I only live about a mile from Big Blue's front door but I work for the larger employer in Rochester.



 hope to get there one day  (IBM AS400 tech) but must lookup the software package as alf says wood working in the dry 

Martyn


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## SketchUp Guru

Alf, as I was sitting drawing the dovetails for this cabinet in the warm of the house, I was thinking it would be nice to cut them in wood as easily. Especially because as I was 'cutting' the tails on one side, they were being cut on the other side simultaneously.

It's also nice when you make a mistake because you can erase it. I don't end up with piles of scrap drawings laying around but I sure have a lot of little pieces of wood too short to save. 

Martyn, if you do get to come over for a visit, let me know. We'll have to meet up.


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## Steve Maskery

Hi Dave,
I'm impressed, not least because I can't make head nor tail of it. I can follow the tutorial OK, I've set up my lights in SU, but when I export everything is black, and it only exports 3 materials, even though my model contails a dozen or more. Beats me. Shame, really, as it obviously has great potential.
Are you using SU4 or SU5? I'm using 5. I wonder if that makes a difference?

Frustrated Steve.


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## tim

Steve

Did you upgrade from 4 or start off with SU5? If the former, have you noticed any huge benefits that make the upgrade really worthwhile?

Cheers

Tim


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## Steve Maskery

Hi Tim
The icons are prettier, and that's about it, as far as I can tell. I won't be buying 5 after my trial hours are up. maybe it's worth it if you are some sort of geo-architect, but otherwise I don't see the benefit. And the way Layers are now handles is very annoying; unless you have a huge screen at high resolution, the Layers dialogue box is always in the way, it doesn't even roll up. There has been a lot of moaning on the SU website about that, which one of the SU staff (presumably the lady most resposible for that particular decision) has been defending vociferously.

On the plus side of SU, and there are many, I've recently discovered the Bezier.rb script, which, whilst it is not as powerful as Autocad, is, nevertheless, a pretty good tool of use to us woodies.
Cheers
Steve


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## tim

Thanks Steve

I find the menus annoying in 4 - why they don't roll up is beyond me. If you are using layers and filling/ painting there is almost no room for the drawing!

Cheers

Tim


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## wizer

Steve Maskery":21dgbk9k said:


> I've recently discovered the Bezier.rb script,



What's that then?


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## Steve Maskery

W
SU has a macro language called Ruby, wich enables you to write your own menus options. SU has rubbish curve-handling as it comes, won't even do ellipses without fannying about with circles and then squashing them, much less do the sort of curves we woodies like.

But SU do have a good website, with forums like this one, one of which s dedicated to Ruby, and some nice person has issued a Ruby script called bezier.rb into the public domain, so that we can draw nice curves in SU. As I say, it's not as powerful as in Acad, but it's welcome, all the same.

Mind you, I still draw my curves in Acad and exprt them, but they get transformed into lots of little straight lines.

Cheers
Steve


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## wizer

cheers steve. Out of interest, If you have AC, how comes your using SU? Is it just because SU is relatively quicker?


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## Steve Maskery

Horses for courses, it's like saying if you have a tablesaw, why do you need a bandsaw 

Acad is easy to get detailed geometry drawn accurately, especially curves, whereas SU is better for visualisation. Indeed I do use SU mainly, now.

Cheers
Steve


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## SketchUp Guru

So many questions. Let's see.

WiZeR, bezier.rb is a script that allows you to draw Bezier curves. You can find it here: http://amazone.crai.archi.fr//Ruby/RUBY ... _Depot.htm
Put it in the Plugins folder under SketchUp and while you're at it, copy sketchup.rb from the Examples folder out into the Plugins folder.

There's a lot of other cool scripts there as well.

Steve, I'm using SU5 although I still have SU4 on my machine. I did the cabinet in SU5 though.

When you export your drawing, do it as an OBJ file under the 3D exports. Before clicking the Export button, click the Options button and check Triangulate all faces and Export texture maps. Uncheck Swap YZ coordinates and select your units (metres?)

Now click OK and then Export.

Open K and open your OBJ file. Click on Materials and right click on one of the boxes that represents a material. Click Build..., Select All and thenOK or whatever it says. I don't have the software on this machine so I'm doing this part from hazy memory.

You should get all of your materials showing now. The ones that are your lights can be edited under the Advanced (3rd) tab to make them emitters.

A quick render should give you the starting point.

Hope that helps. I'll see if I can make some notes of the settings I used for that cabinet and I'll make JPG of the entire SU model to give you an idea of how I got the results I did. It'll have to wait until this evening though.

dave


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## Steve Maskery

Hi Dave,
Unless I'm missing something, I did everything as you suggest. My units are actually millimetres, but I found I couldn't soom out far enough, so I did it again in metres.
My point is that I have lots of materials in my SU model, but only 3 get passed through - foreground, background and Goldenrod - but my carpet. wallpaper and lights do not.

Clearly it can be made to work, I just don't kow what I've done differently to what the tutorial - and you - suggest.

Don't you just love computers.

Cheers
steve


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## LyNx

> whereas SU is better for visualisation


 
is this from personal experience, i think SU will start to fall over with larger more detailed models. Still looks a good package for the price. 

Andy


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## Steve Maskery

Andy
Have you seen some of the architectural models in the SU gallery? They are far larger and more detailed than anythng we woodies are likely to want to create. I have found SU to be very stable indeed.

Cheers
Steve


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## SketchUp Guru

Steve, I have a love-hate relationship with these binary creatures. 

I'll see if I can figure out what's happening. If you'd like, you could send me your SU model and I will give it a go.


Andy, I would have agree with Steve that SU is better for visualization. It is also much easier to learn and use than any of the CAD software I've tried.

It will handle heavy detail just fine. Files can get to be huge but that's not unique to SU. There are strategies to help keep file sizes smaller such as using components whenever possible and eliminating unneeded geometry. You can also reduce file size if desired by limiting detail in areas that don't need it.

I have several heavily detailed models that I've been working on and they don't exhibit any problems at all.


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## LyNx

nothing like a good debate :wink: 

I haven't spent along time on SU as i won't ever use it (but it's still good). I do agree that Acad has a large learning curve but once you understand the basics then is far superior (but so is the price) 

I just dont' see how it can be better for visualization than acad. It just doesn't have the features or precision that acad offers, but admittedly most are not needed anyway. I'm not dismissing SU but at the moment my vote is strongly with acad (and 3ds max 8 with finalrender) for the rendering. 8) 

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

Andy, I'm curious as to where you find SU lacking in precision. Keep in mind though, SketchUp is not CAD software. It was developed to be the computer version of sketching on a napkin. Even so, I find it more than precise enough for woodworking. I work in imperial units to 1/64" which is as close as I would work with wood. If I wanted more precision, I would work in decimal units.

Regarding the rendering portion, 3DS Max may be good but it ain't free. Kerkythea and Blender (another rendering package) are and in my book that's a good thing.


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## LyNx

too true, free as better in anyones book and max isn't cheap


I can't honestly comment on the precision plus or minus points for SU as i haven't used it enough. I just think you may struggle on highly detailed models but i'm open to be proved wrong  

As for SU being ideal for the woodworker, i couldn't agree more. I won't buy Acad if the money came out of my pocket. Not even if i had the money with the features that SU 'has' got.

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

How much detail would you like?


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## LyNx

heheh, you took your time

I was asking for that one :wink: 

Andy


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## martyn2

I guess your into boats as well then :lol: 

martyn


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## SketchUp Guru

Andy, I was trying to decide which model to post a picture of. 

Martyn, I guess I am a bit into boats. That last drawing is of the steering mechanism for my little sailboat. Yes, it has a steering wheel. I have most of the rest of the boat drawn, too, but it is on my machine at home.

I was just lamenting to someone else that the water around here is about to get too hard for sailing and that I wish I had space to build another boat. Ah well, I can dream.

Martyn, are you also interested in boats?


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## martyn2

yes i have a small 16ft cabin curser with a 50hp outboard that is moored in the local harbour i am hopeing to kit her out in wood to make her look a bit more pretty  

martyn


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## SketchUp Guru

Well, when you come over here to visit Big Blue, try to schedule it for summer and we'll see if we can go for a sail.


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## martyn2

your on 

martyn


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## Steve Maskery

Well, with a little bit of help from Dave (don't draw your rooms inside out, guys & gals) here is my first attempt. Not got the light levels right at the mo, can't understand why that back wall is so dark, but even so, I'm quite chuffed. This is my current project.






Thanks very much indeed for your help, Dave.

Cheers
Steve


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## SketchUp Guru

Glad to help, Steve.

Here's another tip for you related to that model. Draw all of your model above the origin of the three axes. I doubt it matters for the OBJ export but it does if you wish to use shadows and a raw JPG or PNG 2D export from SU.

I expect that back wall under the window is so dark because you don't have enough light on it.  More light sources.

Another thing you can do regarding the lighting is draw free standing rectangles or circles to act as lights in K. Just place them so their front face is toward the chest of drawers or whatever you decide to light. Paint each one with a color that can then be turned into an emitter in K.

It only just occurred to me now but you should also be able to place other shapes to act as barndoors or gobos (studio lighting terms). I also wonder what happens if you create a spot light with a cylinder. Turn the cylinder inside out so you can make the bottom of it an emitter and the sides are either reflective or flat black. I've got some fiddling around to do.


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## tim

Well dpne Steve - looking good.

Cheers

Tim


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## SketchUp Guru

Andy, not trying to rub in the detail thing but I just came across this. It's not my work but I think it is cool. I believe this proves I'm just hacking away at SketchUp. 

http://www.sketchup.com/forum/download. ... pietto.jpg
or this:
http://www.sketchup.com/forum/download. ... ation2.jpg


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## LyNx

just add a bit of sand if you want, just to really rub it in :lol: 

I found this pic in the internet, from acad :wink: 







Not sure on the creator but pretty good in my own opinion :wink: 

it still needs a few tweaks and the materials applied. 

i'll dig out a few links for material sites if your interested, some are pretty good. For timbers, unless you scan your own, try veneerselector.com. Good for small models where you can use the veneers fullsize. Nothing worse than a veneered wall of 8000x3000 with a map of 300x200 stretched over it. 

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

Hey! I want that Lego set. That is pretty cool. Bet it could be done in SU but no point now. 

Thanks for the link to the veneer site. Good wood textures, especially ones that tile nicely are difficult to find.

We better be careful with our pictures or someone might yank our leashes in tight.


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## LyNx

timber materials, that are any good are pretty hard to find. You don't have to worry about tiling the width, if you bookmatch the image in photoshop then this is already set for U tiling. The hardest is the length, looks rubbish if you have the same flames in the veneer copied 6 times. I just get a 2500mm piece of veneer, mark it up and cut into a4 pieces. Then scan and rejoin in photoshop. Takes a bit of time but you get some really nice renders from these. 

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

I'll have to play with that. In the past I haven't been too concerned about wood grain since I do the drawings mainly for myself.

Say, on another topic, a little bit north of Swindon, there is a rather large airfield. The runway runs almost east and west. What is it? And to the southwest of that airfield is something that also looks like an airfield with the runways in a triangle. It looks like there are trees planted on the base of the triangle (south side) and large building at the apex of the triangle. What's that?


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## LyNx

I think it could be fairford, where the air tatoo is held. What pictures are you viewing to see this, it may help

Andy


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## wizer

This?


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## wizer

and this?


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## LyNx

first one is fairford. Not sure about the second one at the moment


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## SketchUp Guru

WiZeR pegged both of them but I was looking at Google Earth.


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## Shady

Dave - on your boat picture (here's another boat boy.. :wink: ) the blocks and the lines look like attachments for a steering linkage to the rudder (it's the way a wind vane system is often linked to tiller steering)- I can't work out how that engages/disengages with the wheel in front? Are the blocks an emergency back-up, or a way of lashing the tiller amidships when moored?


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## martyn2

Dave R":35j6vfph said:


> Say, on another topic, a little bit north of Swindon, there is a rather large airfield. The runway runs almost east and west. What is it? And to the southwest of that airfield is something that also looks like an airfield with the runways in a triangle. It looks like there are trees planted on the base of the triangle (south side) and large building at the apex of the triangle. What's that?



Sounds like RAF brize norton 
Link

I was station there for six years 

shady what kind of boat have you got :?: 

martyn

Mod edit for long URL


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## LyNx

Martyn, the one in question as fairford, as i can see the home and garden of the house we stay at when the air tatoo is on. 

The second triangular image, i think is in the quarry area, not far from the coltswold water parks. 

Andy


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## martyn2

LyNx":xu7a9nw2 said:


> Martyn, the one in question as fairford, as i can see the home and garden of the house we stay at when the air tatoo is on.
> 
> The second triangular image, i think is in the quarry area, not far from the coltswold water parks.
> 
> Andy



oK  i used Live in swindon and work at south cerney (another air base ) before moveing to Dorset always use to go to the tatoo i was in it for two years when i was at brize 

martyn


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## CHJ

I think you will find the second image at Down Ampney is the remains of a disused WW2 Airfield.

Used by 271 Squadron RAF Transport Command.


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## martyn2

CHJ":2fj85g0a said:


> I think you will find the second image at Down Ampney is the remains of a disused WW2 Airfield.



I used to fly model air planes from there. there is a stone plaque there to remember them.  

martyn


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## Shady

Martyn - at the moment, I own a mirror that's being restored (good fun), and I hire keel boats out of Portsmouth (Whale Island) when I want a bit more adventure - can't justify the economics of owning to myself at the moment... Mooring fees and maintenance for the number of days I can get on the water just dont make sense..


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## martyn2

Shady":38fak2zc said:


> I hire keel boats out of Portsmouth (Whale Island)



do live near portsmouth :?: 

Martyn


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## Shady

No - Swindon area. Sigh - about as far from tidal water as you can get in England...


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## LyNx

where abouts in the swindon area shady


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## martyn2

you got caote water park near you  next sumer if your down this way give me a shout we can go round the bay

martyn


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## Shady

Hah! Well, it was out Faringdon way, but circumstances mean that I'm moving into Taw Hill in the next couple of weeks - where're you?

Edit - Martyn - I may just take you up on that - yeah, the water park is ideal for dinghy fun..


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## SketchUp Guru

Thanks all for the answers about the airfields. I had been browsing around the world on Google Earth a week or so ago and saw those airfields. Yesterday I decided to find out where Swindon is and noticed that these airfields were just north.

BTW, what's an air tattoo?

Shady, there's an important component missing from the drawing of my steeering system. That is a length of cable from the end of the bottle screw, around the block that appears to be floating in space and terminating on the chain. There's one on each side.

I didn't draw the complete chain or the teeth on the sprockets over which it runs but I hope the rest makes sense.

The original plans called for a steering shaft of 1.25" Diameter pine dowel with a lag screw through the transom and into the aft end of the dowel. I just couldn't do it.


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## martyn2

Dave R":2kn3ro8y said:


> BTW, what's an air tattoo?



an air show it runs every 2 years it an international show 

http://www.airtattoo.com/airtattoo/showcontent.asp


Martyn


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## Alf

Dave R":1yzrnwoz said:


> BTW, what's an air tattoo?


It's a picture of an aeroplane inked into the skin... :wink: 

Really it's an opportunity for the Royal Air Force to show off their expensive toys and get little kiddies to sit in a Tornado or whathaveyou in the hopes that 10 years later they'll want to joint the RAF instead of the Navy (which has nicer uniforms and you can still get to fly :wink: )

Cheers, Alf


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## LyNx

Tawhill, nice little area, got a nice pub (Tawny Owl). What road you moving into if i may ask

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

Alf, I thought that's what it might be.  I can see a bunch of guys standing in line with bare skin waiting to have another guy with 3 teeth and long greasy hair dressed in leather and chains draw a Vampire or a Camel. 

The airshow sounds interesting. I suppose it isn't as big as the airshow at Oshkosh, Wisconsin is it?


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## martyn2

the problem with flying with the navy is you only get short runway and if you fall off you get wet  and the uniforms are only better because bellbottoms are back in fashion :wink: as if i would know what is in fashion  ](*,) 

martyn


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## martyn2

Dave R":2j7pn5xq said:


> The airshow sounds interesting. I suppose it isn't as big as the airshow at Oshkosh, Wisconsin is it?



it covers all countys UK,USA,USSR,france\etc is quite a big one and Fairford is an USA air base here in uk 

martyn


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## Alf

martyn2":zqtsc6od said:


> the problem with flying with the navy is you only get short runway and if you fall off you get wet


...and that's just at the air stations... :lol:



martyn2":zqtsc6od said:


> and the uniforms are only better because bellbottoms are back in fashion :wink: as if i would know what is in fashion  ](*,)


Fashion, smashion. All the nice girls love a sailor, as the saying goes... :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## martyn2

> Fashion, smashion. All the nice girls love a sailor, as the saying goes... :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



But that was before the Air force was created 

martyn


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## Jake

Alf":176sa81c said:


> Fashion, smashion. All the nice girls love a sailor, as the saying goes... :wink:



Not sure how much good that'll do them.


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## tim

martyn":1elw7lw9 said:


> But that was before the Air force was created



and given a uniform the colour of 1970's eyeshadow! or indeed the same colour as an ointment for an unpleasant condition.

Cheers

Tim (RN retd)


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## Alf

All I can say is, from the POV of the distaff side*, the Naval uniform has the edge. I'm sorry, it's just how it is. Being the Senior Service they got first choice I suppose. :wink: 

Cheers, Alf

*Well this section of it anyway. I've just remembered Gill's RAF connections, so she's bound to leap to their defence I fear. :lol:


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## SketchUp Guru

> it covers all countys UK,USA,USSR,france\etc is quite a big one and Fairford is an USA air base here in uk
> 
> martyn



Well, perhaps, I'll have to go see it one day.

I'm told that during the one week of the EAA airshow in Oshkosh, air traffic controllers handle more take offs and landings than any other airport in world sees in a year. :shock: 

I've been there many times but wouldn't fly in. They post a controller on a hill out to the west of the field. All VFR flights come in over this hill. The controller says, "red Cessna, follow the Bonanza. Yellow Cub, follow the red Cessna..." You fly a right hand pattern for a landing from the east unless the wind is really strong out of the east. Then the tower controller says, "Bonanza land short, take the first turn off. RedCessna land in the middle. Take the first high speed turn off. Yellow Cub land long, don't go through the fence."

Scary but they do it successfully year after year.


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## martyn2

Alf":1xeu8ap1 said:


> *Well this section of it anyway. I've just remembered Gill's RAF connections, so she's bound to leap to their defence I fear. :lol:



come on gill help i,m being out numbered here :-k 


:arrow: be alert jion the navy the navy needs lerts  


martyn


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## martyn2

> Scary but they do it successfully year after year.



that sounds like a good show might have to look into that one  
Fairford is only military planes (planes that will wake philly up :tool: )

martyn


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## Shady

Honestly - Alf - typical shallow female response to the peacock's feathers... :wink: 

You have to look beyond the superficial aspects of the potential mate's plumage, to his ability to provide for you... Now the Navy and the RAF both go to war sitting down in comfort: what sort of warrior is that? 

You want the steel thighs and sinews of an Army type, whose job description goes something like "to close with and destroy the enemy in all weathers, in all terrain, by day or night"... Oh - and his mess kit's sexier, too...


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## Alf

Shady":1swhhlny said:


> Honestly - Alf - typical shallow female response to the peacock's feathers... :wink:


Yep. :wink: 



Shady":1swhhlny said:


> Now the Navy and the RAF both go to war sitting down in comfort: what sort of warrior is that?


A well-rested one?




:lol:

Cheers, Alf


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## Shady

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear... :roll: No wonder I always hated pilots. They got paid more, for the fun of driving the ultimate 'sportscars', bought by the taxpayer, and the girls fell for their cheesy fighter pilot stories every time... 

Grrr: still, at least it's much harder to loot places like Kuwait city from 20,000 feet..


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## tim

Shady

Why would you want to go into battle carrying your own luggage and dirty laundry? At least if you have to face these tribulations, I think its best to do so after a hot shower, fresh coffee and a breakfast eaten off china. 

What say you?

Cheers


Tim


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## Shady

Now come on Tim - anyone who goes into battle, knowing that if it all goes horribly wrong their 'home' will slip beneath the waves from under them is obviously deranged... Joking aside, that would be my same fear as an airman: if someone shoots my landrover, I get out and run away on nice safe terra firma, as opposed to all sorts of unpleasantness. 

Nope, infantry is the business: the least high profile target on the battlefield, but the most important element: I give you Field Marshal Earl Wavell's view:


> I do feel strongly that the Infantry arm (with a capital "I") does not receive either the respect or the treatment to which its importance and its exploits entitle it. This may possibly be understandable, though misguided, in peace; it is intolerable in war.
> 
> Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm. The role of the average artilleryman, for instance, is largely routine; the setting of a fuse, the loading of a gun, even the laying of it are processes which, once learnt, are mechanical. The infantryman has to use initiative and intelligence in almost every step he moves, every action he takes on the battle-field. We ought therefore to put our men of best intelligence and endurance into the Infantry.
> 
> In all the long history of war on land the front-line fighting man, whose role is to close with the enemy and force him to flee, surrender, or be killed—the only method by which battles are ever won—has two categories only—those who fight mounted—once the Knights-at-arms, then the Cavalry, now the Royal Armoured Corps—and those who fight on their feet—the inevitable, enduring, despised, long-suffering Infantry (with a very capital I). So let us always write Infantry with a specially capital "I" and think of them with the deep admiration they deserve. And let us Infantrymen wear our battle-dress, like our rue, with a difference; and throw a chest in it, for we are the men who win battles and wars.



Gravel belly and proud of it! (with the knackered back and knees to prove it... :roll: )


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## tim

Shady":1kapbn58 said:


> if someone shoots my landrover, I get out and run away on nice safe terra firma, as opposed to all sorts of unpleasantness.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Have you seen the things they shoot at landrovers? Not much landrover left I fear!

I think the Field Marshall may have a slight bias and is possibly only making an Intra army comparison (in which case I agree). Limited number of infantry men at Trafalgar for example.

All in all, whichever one you are a member of, you are nails. RAF excepted.

Cheers

Tim


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## Shady

You're right Tim, he is. 

Having said which: Hmm, Trafalgar - wasn't it an honourary Infantryman (aka Marine) who did for that Nelson fella? All those big French boats, but it was a sharpshooter's bullet that did the British fleet the most damage that day... 

Anyway, I'll stop there - don't want to offend anyone - except the RAF :twisted:


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## tim

I don't think you'll find many marines that will take kindly to being described as infantrymen!

If you are going to Tools2005, you could test the theory by asking that question out loud in The Turk's Head in Exeter - a favoured haunt for the Lympstone boys.

Cheers

Tim


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## dedee

tim":1x199sut said:


> I don't think you'll find many marines that will take kindly to being described as infantrymen!


If you really want to upset a marine try calling him a sailor :lol: 

I bear the scars

Andy


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## Shady

Nah - they are - it's a bit like paras - they're Infantry who have given up on learning all the Infantryman's arts, and concentrate purely on the dismounted stuff.. :twisted: (but, I will give you, the marines do it very, very well. )


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## martyn2

now come on the navy sailors and officers go down with there ship :? 
the Army men and officers go over the top :roll: 

the RAF put there offices into a 6*4 copit send them of to war go back and drink tea  

so whos :sign3: 

now 

martn


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## tim

martyn":2iudycqd said:


> the RAF put there offices into a 6*4 copit send them of to war go back and drink tea



Oh yeah. I forgot. No team spirit either.

Cheers

Tim


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## martyn2

the team sprit was all the better seeing the jockeys off  

martyn


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