# Choosing a scroll-saw. Why pay more? the answer is here.



## scrimper

I often read comments from people new to scrolling or fretwork as to which saw to buy, why pay £100's of pounds when you can buy one for less than £100?

In my workshop yesterday I thought why not do a video about the subject and went ahead. I thought there may be people here who may be interested so I hope folks here won't mind me placing the links here.

The video is in two parts .

Part one is 




Part two is 



Hope the video's are of interest to someone.

John.


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## Droogs

nicely put


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## AES

Very good vids scrimper, thanks. Should certainly help newbies to make a decision.


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## BigDan1190

Suppose it depends just how cheaply you can get a cheap one... I just picked up an Aldi / Workzone / Scheppach one for £20 on Facebook marketplace! Took a while but finally got someone to agree to such a cheap price.


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## OscarG

scrimper said:


> I often read comments from people new to scrolling or fretwork as to which saw to buy, why pay £100's of pounds when you can buy one for less than £100?
> 
> In my workshop yesterday I thought why not do a video about the subject and went ahead. I thought there may be people here who may be interested so I hope folks here won't mind me placing the links here.
> 
> The video is in two parts .
> 
> Part one is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part two is
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the video's are of interest to someone.
> 
> John.





Cheers! I'll watch that later.

Subscribed to your channel.


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## Aquachiefofficer

Thank you for the videos John.
Claymore (Brian) has got me interested in a scroll saw and it's good to know what to look for. Not sure I would run to hundreds on price but you never know when a bargain will come up on the internet.
Regards, Paul


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## whatknot

If time is not important, I would suggest hanging on for a decent used machine, rather than the largely generic sub £200 new saws

Or try a cheapie from the likes of Aldi when they come up (sometimes £50) which is basically the same saw as retailed for up to £200 (and sometimes more) 

£150 to £200 should buy you a decent used machine


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## AES

Agree 100% with whatknot. As those videos show, the differences between a 500 quid and a sub-200 quid machine SEEM quite small to start off with, but when you've struggled a few times with blade changing, setting and maintaining blade tension, using pinless versus pinned blades, etc, etc, those differences become very important.

Sure, just about any machine will cut, and with care, a lot of time, plus practice and patience, they all can produce results just as good as the very expensive saws. But speaking personally I got more and more frustrated with the shortcomings of my cheapo saws (2 different saws!) and in the end bought an expensive saw (in my case, an Excalibur 21).

But just as whatknot saws, the Aldi machines are just as good as any of the other below 200 quid machines, so if you're in a hurry, go for one of those. There's one in my local Aldi right now (Switzerland) and they crop up in UK from time to time. The Aldi saws also have the benefit of a 3 year guarantee, whereas the Record and other such "badge-engineered) saws have shorter or even nil guarantees as well as being dearer than Aldi.

But also as he says, if you can wait a bit, just keep your eyes open for a good SH machine - there was one for sale here not so long ago.

I'd suggest the good makes to keep your eyes open for are (in no particular order): Hegner; the Axminster Hegner "clone"; Excalibur; the Axi Excalibur "clone"; and the Delta (though they tend to be rarer this side of the Atlantic).

No doubt someone else will be along soon to add a couple of other names to that list.

HTH


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## mpcpba

scrimper said:


> I often read comments from people new to scrolling or fretwork as to which saw to buy, why pay £100's of pounds when you can buy one for less than £100?
> 
> In my workshop yesterday I thought why not do a video about the subject and went ahead. I thought there may be people here who may be interested so I hope folks here won't mind me placing the links here.
> 
> The video is in two parts .
> 
> Part one is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Part two is
> 
> 
> 
> Hope the video's are of interest to someone.
> 
> John.





Very helpful video's - many thanks! A lot of things are a lot clearer already.
I've just been given an old Draper fs16a which is my very first entree into powered fretsaw work. I want to try to use this for smaller pieces to embellish / complement some of my woodturning work (which is my main focus). My band saw usually has a 1/2" or bigger blade fitted for processing logs for my woodturning and as changing band saw blades is a pig I rarely swap blades. So hope this may fill a gap in the ever growing kit.
You mentioned a pinless blade adapter. Can you get them for the Draper?


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## Alkeen

I bought a Record 16 inch from Amazon for £122 with a 5 year warranty. It had good reviews on You tube, It looks good has a light, dust blower, variable speed settings, extractor nozzle, clamps and set up for pin less blades, will also use pinned blades the blades can be fitted two ways also, straight with the back of the blade facing the 16 inch cut out or at 90 degrees. I may have also found a quick solution to slackening the top blade clamp bolts to remove the blade to thread into holes for internal scrolling.


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## AES

Welcome to the Forum Alkeen, and congratulations on your purchase. I hope you have many hours of enjoyment with it - if you turn out like most of us in this section of the Forum you'll find that scrolling becomes quite addictive!

As a tip you may want to try out the Pegas range of blades, especially their "MGT" range (Modified Geometry Teeth) - the UK dealer is Axminster Tools. There are several other good makes too, but Pegas "have a good rep" amongst many of us here.

Any questions and we're all here to help.

What are you going to make? Lets' see some pix please.

Cheers


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## morrissey007

Really useful, thank you. Could anyone advise which model is the " the Axminster Hegner "clone". Please?


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## loftyhermes

This one, now called the Trade AT460SS Scroll Saw. https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-t ... saw-501201


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## morrissey007

Thank you Lofty, for the very quick reply! I'm looking to buy a Scroll saw, would love a Hegner but cant justify (or afford!) the price so I'm on the lookout for a good budget saw, unfortunatly this particular Axminster is way beyond my budget of ~£150. I'm thinking of the Record Power SS16V, anyone like these?


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## whatknot

The previous model number was AWFS18 (which I have) 

If you are not in to much of a rush, try saving searches on the various sites, they do come up from time to time, around £150 to £250

Definitely worth waiting for

The Record SS16V is no better than the Workzone (Scheppach) version for a lot less 

At full price its £50 cheaper and has a three year warranty but you can pick them up fairly cheaply on Gumtree, Preloved etc, some never make it out of the box 

Most saws below £200 are very similar, there are a couple that have a better blade clamp but most are the same "hanger" style like the Workzone or Record


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## morrissey007

Thank you whatknot. Looking at the Axminster AC456SS, I reckon I can stretch to that, not much more than the Record (and other chinese clones) but cast iron base and table, decent extraction and pin/pinless...and of course Axminster, I've had nothing but superb service from them...wish I could say the same for Record.


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## Irish Rover

Morrissey your profile says you are in Portsmouth?

There is a really nice condition two speed Delta on eBay, located in Gosport.

Two days to go currently one bidder £50

I wouldn't be telling you this if I lived closer to it ;-)


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## jeremyduncombe

morrissey007 said:


> Thank you whatknot. Looking at the Axminster AC456SS, I reckon I can stretch to that, not much more than the Record (and other chinese clones) but cast iron base and table, decent extraction and pin/pinless...and of course Axminster, I've had nothing but superb service from them...wish I could say the same for Record.




I have an AC 456SS and I agree with your comments about it .... but changing blades is slow and fiddly. It is much easier now I leave the side panel off, but I still find it frustrating. If possible, I suggest you try before you buy. On the other hand, it may be much the same for all cheap scrollsaws, I haven’t tried any other models to compare. If you can live with slow blade changes it is a good machine for the money, and capable of very precise work.


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## morrissey007

Irish Rover said:


> Morrissey your profile says you are in Portsmouth?
> 
> There is a really nice condition two speed Delta on eBay, located in Gosport.
> 
> Two days to go currently one bidder £50
> 
> I wouldn't be telling you this if I lived closer to it ;-)




Thank you! I searched eBay for delta but somehow missed this one. I believe this is the 40-540 which is the budget end of delta? Any idea which would be better out of this or the Axi 456? The Axi seems much better spec'd.


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## Irish Rover

Sorry I don't know. I have no experience of either model.
I have a single speed Delta and it is a very good machine.

Buy the cheaper one, the Delta, then start saving for a Hegner or similar?

If you look after it the Delta should hold its resale value.


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## loftyhermes

morrissey007":3ozxryxr said:



> Irish Rover":3ozxryxr said:
> 
> 
> 
> Morrissey your profile says you are in Portsmouth?
> 
> There is a really nice condition two speed Delta on eBay, located in Gosport.
> 
> Two days to go currently one bidder £50
> 
> I wouldn't be telling you this if I lived closer to it ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you! I searched eBay for delta but somehow missed this one. I believe this is the 40-540 which is the budget end of delta? Any idea which would be better out of this or the Axi 456? The Axi seems much better spec'd.
Click to expand...

The Delta every time over the Axi. If the quickset clamps (the best clamping system ever) are complete and it works then it'll be a great saw. I have two 560's one I bought new in the mid 1990's and it's still going, I also have another 560 and a 540 as well. The 540 is variable speed, the 560 is two speed, both are identical apart from the speeds. There's a buy it now one now near you that looks in great condition with all the tools. if I were closer I would have it.


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## whatknot

Annoying, for some reason I am not getting alerts to new replies on ukworkshops 

As others have said, go for the Delta, its a good sturdy machine with better blade clamps for quick changing

I was going to point it out to you yesterday but wasn't sure where you were 

Apart from its a better machine, the Axi AC456SS is £165 and once out of the box worth about £65 at best, if you can sell it for that, whereas the Delta would be worth what you paid for it up to around £70

The variable speed is better IMHO than the two speed but either are likely to be a better buy than the Axi at £165

Yes there might be problems with a used machine, but the variable speed one looks little used


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## morrissey007

Lofty, whatknot and Irish, thank you all so much for the advice and quick replies!

I'm going to follow all your advice and have a punt on the Delta, really difficult to know what to bid as I cant find prices for it anywhere, must be quite an old model I reckon so probably max £80? Also a little concerned about parts for something this old and not readily available in the UK, so I think my bid should reflect this. Anything above that and I think I'd go for the Axi.

Edit: Its currently at £94, too much for an old machine I think, for another £60 I'll go for the new Axi (and get a bonus flexible shaft with it!)


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## loftyhermes

The Hayling Island one is a buy now at £70.


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## Irish Rover

There is a bidding war going on between two people for the one in Gosport.

If I were you I would swoop on the Hayling Island Buy It Now £70 one ASAP.
It's £100 cheaper than the axminster. If you don't like it, which you will ;-) you can resell it for the same price easily.


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## morrissey007

Tempted to try a bid on the Delta but the Axi AC456 has 10% off making it £148 and with the Rotary tool this is making it very Attractive!


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## AES

I would THINK, (repeat think, NOT know) that if it's in reasonable condition, the Delta would be the better buy of the 2.

Do you actually NEED a flex drive shaft? How is it driven on that Axi machine, and what does it have for a collet (or chuck) on the end?? If you really do need a flex drive, how much would it cost you to buy one separately, WITH all the bits and fits exactly as you want them? (Dremel, as just one example).

As said, I don't know the Delta at all, but they get a consistently very good rep on US sites (where they're mainly to be found) and loftyhermes, member here, has THREE and he says they're very good too.

I'm NOT knocking your preferences, but with all due respect, I suggest you should not allow yourself to be "over-influenced" by "added give-aways" (as I have done in the past - AND generally regretted doing so).


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## morrissey007

You make a very good point, Hence my 'tempted to bid on the Delta' thats local to me. What I can't figure is what is or isn't a good 2nd hand price, it looks in excellent condition and is at £94, but I've no idea if that's way over or not, there is one for £70, but looks a lot older, bit more beaten up and well used and is the two speed not variable.


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## AES

Yeah, and I can't help you there, sorry, I haven't lived in UK for over 40 years and have NIL idea on pricing these days.

About the only thing I can suggest is that you ask yourself A) "What am I prepared to pay?", and B) "What can I get for that money?". My understanding is that even with cheapo Aldi/Lidl prices you'd pay almost 70% of 94 quid for a new one (WHEN in stock!), AND those machines are only just one of many similar "Chinese Clones" that often sell for more than 94 quid. So you end up comparing new with S/H. So now perhaps the "only" question is "what sort of condition is that Delta in?" And if you go a bit further and tell yourself that Delta has a good rep and that there's not all that much to go wrong with a scroll saw REALLY (he says hopefully!!!), the decision MAY become a little easier for you. That's "a definite maybe"  

Can you go and look at it/try it before buying?

Good luck whatever you decide, IMO scrolling is fun. AND these machines can be used in any workshop for a lot more than "just typical scroll saw work".


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## morrissey007

Yup, all very good points, and you're right; the 'clones'. are all around the £100 - £120 mark and a 2nd Delta will definately be better than all of those . The Auction ends tomorrow...I'll report back!


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## AES

OK mate, good luck.


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## loftyhermes

I prefer the two speed over the variable one but that's just me. Anywhere around the £100 mark is good, lower is better. I can't see the point in running the saw to use a flexible drive, just buy a Dremmel type machine. Just because a machine looks older doesn't mean it's not a good buy. Another thing about the Delta is that it has little vibration and it doesn't need fastening down I have used mine just sat on a workmate with no bother at all.


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## morrissey007

all good points Gentlemen (sexist assumption there!). I will keep my eyes out for a 2nd hand delta!


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## Irish Rover

Aren't you interested in one of the two near you?

Two pieces of rocking horse poo on your doorstep at the same time.

Don't over think it.
£70 2 speed Delta just down the road is a phrase I would love someone to say to me.


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## morrissey007

Not over thinking it. I'm going to take all your good folks advice. The 70 quid one looks pretty beaten up and Hayling is harder to get to. I'll see what happens with the other one tomorrow.


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## Irish Rover

I would say the £70 one is in fairly good condition. Just cosmetic blemishes.

Mine looks the same and it works brilliantly.

Good luck.


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## AES

morrissey007":1vzva3cp said:


> all good points Gentlemen (sexist assumption there!). I will keep my eyes out for a 2nd hand delta!


 
Well at least in my case your assumption is correct ("Mr." AES)  

I've only ever seen pics of a Delta. WHEN you buy yours (!) 1 or 2 pics are obligatory!


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## morrissey007

Rest Assured pics will appear!


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## Urrgly

scrimper said:


> I often read comments from people new to scrolling or fretwork as to which saw to buy, why pay £100's of pounds when you can buy one for less than £100?
> 
> In my workshop yesterday I thought why not do a video about the subject and went ahead. I thought there may be people here who may be interested so I hope folks here won't mind me placing the links here.
> 
> The video is in two parts .
> 
> Part one is
> and
> Part two is
> 
> Hope the video's are of interest to someone.
> 
> John.



Brilliant video Scrimper helped me loads as a newbie thanks.
Guess what I'm searching for now 
Quick question though what model is yours? The ones I've looked at quickly don't seem to have the quick release tensioner on them.


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## Awac

scrimper said:


> I often read comments from people new to scrolling or fretwork as to which saw to buy, why pay £100's of pounds when you can buy one for less than £100?
> 
> In my workshop yesterday I thought why not do a video about the subject and went ahead. I thought there may be people here who may be interested so I hope folks here won't mind me placing the links here.
> 
> The video is in two parts .
> 
> Part one is
> and
> Part two is
> 
> Hope the video's are of interest to someone.
> 
> John.



I didn't quite realise how much I need a scroll saw....lol. Great introduction video.


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## scrimper

Urrgly said:


> Brilliant video Scrimper helped me loads as a newbie thanks.
> Guess what I'm searching for now
> Quick question though what model is yours? The ones I've looked at quickly don't seem to have the quick release tensioner on them.


Hello Urrgly, sorry I have only just seen your question. My Hegner is the Multicut 2s variable, I bought it in Dec 1999 and it's still working as good as when new. Again sorry for the delay in replying. John.


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## scrimper

Awac said:


> I didn't quite realise how much I need a scroll saw....lol. Great introduction video.


So glad you found the videos useful. John.


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## Tobi1186

Thanks for the vids! Wanted to give my son one as a present and I always thought I'd have to spend hell lot of money - now I know better


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## Saltnsauce

Thank you for the videos, I learned a lot in a few minutes and the knowledge will help greatly in search for a saw


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## scrimper

Saltnsauce said:


> Thank you for the videos, I learned a lot in a few minutes and the knowledge will help greatly in search for a saw


So glad you found the videos of interest and if they helped you that is a bonus for me.


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## maryaswoodworker

I had a Delta 18" variable speed scroll saw. It was a brilliant machine until the clamp head broke and i couldn't get a replacement. After numerous calls to America I eventually gave up and bought an Axminster with an even deeper throat - it was rubbish in comparison, so much vibration you just couldn't keep a steady cut.

I found although the Delta was a great machine, I had problems getting spare parts as they came from the USA.


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## loftyhermes

maryaswoodworker said:


> I had a Delta 18" variable speed scroll saw. It was a brilliant machine until the clamp head broke and i couldn't get a replacement. After numerous calls to America I eventually gave up and bought an Axminster with an even deeper throat - it was rubbish in comparison, so much vibration you just couldn't keep a steady cut.
> 
> I found although the Delta was a great machine, I had problems getting spare parts as they came from the USA.


I have an old Delta and bought a several more for spares, not that I needed to, so I sold them on. Keep an eye on ebay or other second hand sites for a cheap machine, I would consider around £75 reasonable for a non runner but with the quickset clamps in good condition.


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## Adam W.

What are your thoughts on a Hegner 2s ?


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## AES

IMO, they're great, but (new) well over-priced for what they are/what you get, and spares are outrageously expensive. But IF you can find a SH one at a good price, I'd say go for it. Check around on here (and elsewhere) for what " a good price" means these days.


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## scrimper

Adam W. said:


> What are your thoughts on a Hegner 2s ?


For my opinion you can watch my Video here- 

AES is 100% correct about expensive parts, however the saws are very reliable and in my case in 23 years of owning one I have spent £20.00 for a new bellows and fitted a new switch (Cost me nowt I used a switch from an old hairdryer it's a standard mini rocker switch cost about £1 which Hegner charge £24 for)!


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## Inspector

What are the thoughts around the original Somerville Excalibur Scroll Saws? I picked up a 30" a little while ago, not so much because I have a need, just because I have always wanted one.  It is missing a screw in the table and the speed knob is missing and the switch will need to be replaced to fit one. Still works as is though.

Pete


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## AES

I've only read about those Pete, but I bought it's "little son" (the General International Excalibur 21 inch model). That was 6 years ago now. Mine was expensive, even though it was made in Taiwan, and I guess some of the reasons are that A) GI have kept to a good materials & fasteners spec; B) they've made some improvements to that original design; and C) their assy and QC processes are tip top. In short I'm delighted with mine. Not only was it cheaper than the Hegner (I actually tried both alongside) but it has more "bang for the buck" (features such as the tilting head, which I find invaluable).

In short, I'm delighted with mine, and with the right blade it will do more than you probably think - inc sheet metal work.

BTW, IF your missing machine screw to retain the table is metric like mine (I think it's 8 mm standard coarse, but can check tomorrow) and if you can't easily get one, shout out and I'll put one in the post to you.

Edit for P.S. I presume that you know your machine (and it's design) originated in Canada?


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## Inspector

Thanks for the kind offer AES but I'm good. Because of the age of the saw I'm pretty sure it is imperial and may even have a little box of them squirrelled away. If not there is a Bolt Warehouse in town and they have both metric and imperial fasteners in a supermarket sized store. While the tilting head might be nice the $500Cad I paid makes it a small sacrifice over the General International, no longer in business by the way. I watched a Somerville sales rep demo the saw in the 80s at a wood show, cut a reindeer/elk complete with antlers out of a block of wood no bigger than a sugar cube. 

Pete


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## Droogs

I have the GI Excalibur 30" and it would replace my missus on her side of the bed If i could get away with it.


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## AES

@ Inspector: You wrote, QUOTE: ... small sacrifice over the General International, no longer in business by the way. UNQUOTE:

Now that's interesting! Any more info on that please?

AFAIK/have heard, GI had/has a v good rep for all sorts of machinery, not just scroll saws, and for both wood and metal work too. Certainly, I think every member on here is of one mind in praising their GI/Excalibur scroll saws. (See Droogs' post above as one example).

But there has been at least one attempt by a UK supplier/manufacturer to clone the Excalibur scroll saws, and again based on all the feedback seen here on UKW, these clones have been little short of disastrous. So I'm wondering if GI going bust may have something to do with that?


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## Inspector

I don't know the exact reason GI went under but I think it has more to do with trying to compete in a saturated market where most of the people looking for machines are after the lowest prices. GI was in the upper end of that bunch and the profits might not have been what the owners were after. 

What I meant by small sacrifice was that I was giving up the tilting head for the tilting table at a nice price of about 288pounds. When I get to it I suppose I could make a tilting top stand to mount the saw on to get the same advantage you have with the tilting head, just with two adjustments rather than one. Or jump on a GI if it ever comes along and have two saws.  The deals always show up when you don't need or expect them along with not having the space for them.

Pete


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## Droogs

Very interesting, I wonder if that is what made Axi start manufacturing their version of the excalibur having been the UK dealer and suddenly finding themselfve's without a product to sell. Just a pity they muffed it and went El cheapo on the components, loss of stregth, rigidity and reputation


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## AES

Droogs said:


> Very interesting, I wonder if that is what made Axi start manufacturing their version of the excalibur having been the UK dealer and suddenly finding themselfve's without a product to sell. Just a pity they muffed it and went El cheapo on the components, loss of stregth, rigidity and reputation




I'm trying to find out a bit more (like who's making the Excali version now?) and will advise if I can get some good gen.


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## Inspector

Likely the same people that made the GI versions. They are making them to a price point that the purchasers are demanding. If asked to make the best they would be defect free and cost double or triple. The race to the bottom.

Pete


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## Droogs

Andy are the Pegas badged machines still available over there?


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## AES

Droogs said:


> Andy are the Pegas badged machines still available over there?




AFAIK, yes. Will be checking soon, but a bit busy on other stuff right now. More asap


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## AES

@ Droogs (and anyone else interested): I MAY have got to the bottom of the current situation, but it's complicated, so I'll do a new post (within 30 mins of posting this) under the heading "Excalibur" scroll saws".

Cheers


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