# wide rim platter/sculpture



## mark sanger (6 Jul 2010)

Hi all

this is a sculpture the basis of which comes from a platter/wide rime bowl.

It is 300 mm textured wide rim bowl/platter, textured, scorched acrylic paints, on plinth.

comments welcome


----------



## Lightweeder (6 Jul 2010)

I think it's lovely - clever and looks extremely well done. If I had half of your talent and skill, and could come anywhere near producing this, I would have skipped the thingy in the middle, or maybe had it black. Other than that, it's a smasher.


----------



## skeetoids (6 Jul 2010)

I love everything about this piece.

And if that is a marble in the middle then I am over the moon 'cause I just received my order of hand selected marbles to include in my pieces!

This really is spectacular, but then again I'm totally biased as a fan.

Lovely how you've carved away most of the scorching just to leave a nice suttle hint, the section carved out at the top is great, the shaoe and form I like a lot too.

Top notch Mark, swing by South Queensferry the next time your up in Scotland and I'll show you how you can make some improvements :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## stevebuk (6 Jul 2010)

reminds me of a beautiful flower in full bloom, blooming marvelous.. :lol:


----------



## Leo (6 Jul 2010)

A thing of beauty, a lot of work went into this and well worth the effort, lovely job. =D>


----------



## The Shark (6 Jul 2010)

Hi Mark,

Another lovely piece  

Malc


----------



## Jenx (6 Jul 2010)

Another show-stopper . Mark, as ever... its breathtaking.

Just brilliant. 8)


----------



## Paul.J (6 Jul 2010)

Great looking piece Mark


----------



## wizer (6 Jul 2010)

Mark I think what you are doing for Comic Relief really generous and inspiring.... :lol: 

Just kidding. Love it. V.Nice.

How is the pole fixed to the piece?


----------



## kasandrich (6 Jul 2010)

No sorry it doesn't do anything for me.


----------



## Bodrighy (6 Jul 2010)

I think it looks really great apart from the cherry. Sorry but for me that seems wrong, somehow demeans it. As always I am critiquing something that I'd be proud of it I had done :lol: 

Pete


----------



## Blister (7 Jul 2010)

kasandrich":1ufdjv6a said:


> No sorry it doesn't do anything for me.



Are you a traditionalist ?

Mark is a full time woodturner and makes his living doing this profession

I would think sales wise , his customers prefer the more arty items to the plain traditional items 

It has been said before is it turning or is it art ?

In my opinion its both , and different , made up from many ideas 

Design
Timber selection
Turning
Carving
Colouring
Burning 
Presentation 

to name but a few 

As with most Professional turners Mark has his style :lol:


----------



## cornucopia (7 Jul 2010)

It does nothing for me either- when i open a thread and the picture appears i felt nothing- its not that i dont like it i just dont get that wow factor or intrigue as to how its made etc
for me its nothing to do with being a tradionalist its more to do with that intial feeling when you see a piece
I know that Mark enjoys my honest opinion so i know i wont offend.....for me mark its boring- the balll in the centre the scorching the black plinth the cut out- its like you've used all the new fad common things in one piece.please dont get me wrong its all been done perfectly and it will sell quickly but compared to some of your more recent work, its like your taking a step backwards with this piece.


----------



## tekno.mage (7 Jul 2010)

Hi Mark, for me this one is just a tad too symmetrical, although I like the idea. 

Looking at the picture again, if the carved cut-out was slightly off to one side, rather than at the top, it would be an improvement.

I do like the red ball in the middle - is it a fancy marble or a painted turned ball?

I also like the subtle scorching.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## mark sanger (7 Jul 2010)

Hi all

Thank you very much for all of your comments. They are all appreciated.

Some like it some do not, this is fine as we all have different tastes and likes in relation to what we like. 

I have never had an issue with people not liking a piece I do. 

My wife Liz works in an interior business and just within the fabric department for making curtains they have over two thousand different fabrics to choose from. Many of which I too do not like. 

George 

I am heart broken, my confidence is shattered and I am not coming to your birthday party. 

     

Just kidding obviously I'm not coming as you didn't invite me   

I always appreciate your comments as you know and I do not have an issue with anyone critiquing my work. 

You have paid me a compliment anyhow as you have said that it is all done perfectly. 

I am always looking for new way to look at taking a standard item and seeing what ideas I can come up with. 

It also hopefully will sell quickly and again if this is the case then I will be happy. 

Being creative/trying to make different works is fraught with danger as you will possibly appeal to far fewer potential customers than by making something that they feel comfortable with. This in turn can make me at times want to revert back to what I know people like for want of acceptance. Doing this for me just means I stagnate.So I do not see this as a step backwards but a different direction and as such a whole exciting area to play in.

Often I find my pieces are like Marmite. Some go "wow I love it" others "don't like it at all"

This is all fine. 

This is out in this coming woodturning magazine as one of the projects. As such it may not appeal to all but can be altered and changed to anyone's taste, with the sequence showing the method of making.

I did not say it was an article to begin with as I did not want people to be swayed in what they said. 

I have waffled enough, again, but I appreciate all comments.

so if you do like it and want to have a go. You know where to look.


----------



## paulm (7 Jul 2010)

I love the piece Mark and think the red ball in the centre really set's it off well.

Things I might change (not that I'm anywhere near good enough :lol: ) might be to make the rim cut out a little less curved and slightly more angular, and I don't think the base arrangement works with it, perhaps it's a bit strong visually and competes with the piece itself a bit ?

That's being picky though, love the idea and contrast between the larger part and the coloured ball.

Cheers, Paul


----------



## mark sanger (7 Jul 2010)

Hi Paul and all

Sorry for not replying to each comment individually. I have spent the day with over 20- 7 year olds on a school outing and to say my brain is fried is an under statement. 

Paul.

Your comments are just as valid as my own and as such I appreciate you commenting. I am certainly not the all seeing guru that some may feel I should be. 

Learning new ideas, techniques and work is something I am continuing every day. Some time I hit the nail on the head, some times not. 

It is also important for me to remember " beginners mind" the more I may think I know about a subject then the more this can become a restriction. So I am very please to get all comments. Just because I made it in a certain way does not mean it is right or the best it can be. 

Looking at the base now I hear what you say. Perhaps a more natural base would work better. 

I like the base to be totally separate as it is often much harder to compliment than totally contrast. One for me to think about. 

The cut out is one of several designs I have drawn up another is more jagged ( in the pipeline now) and another more straight. 

Will have to see how they turn out and will post when I get round to finishing them.

Thank you all again


----------



## OldWood (7 Jul 2010)

paulm said:


> , and I don't think the base arrangement works with it, perhaps it's a bit strong visually and competes with the piece itself a bit ?



It feels all wrong to criticise someone who is a professional (and is therefore earning his bread at it) in an activity that most of us are amateurs at. Anything I produce is agricultural in comparison. 

But this piece suffers from the same problem that Mark's lovely garden sculpture suffers from - the dreaded black base. This is like a lovely painting, even a well presented photo, that is mounted in totally the wrong frame - a good frame sets a good painting off, and a good and appropriate base supports and compliments a good piece of woodwork.

Mark - I will never be able to achieve your skill or imagination, but please don't take the easy option of the black block base; it really does not compliment your fine work.

Rob


----------



## mark sanger (8 Jul 2010)

OldWood":26lfj2ae said:


> paulm":26lfj2ae said:
> 
> 
> > , and I don't think the base arrangement works with it, perhaps it's a bit strong visually and competes with the piece itself a bit ?
> ...




Hi Rob 

It is an interesting one. I like black bases as I am very much into contrasting and setting the two parts as separates. 

The natural base to me looked wishy washy being of the same material.

I have thought about stone bases and this is an option I am looking into at the moment with relation to sourcing, pricing and cutting. 

I also feel that framing and colours are very much a personal thing and as with picture frames there are thousands of colours and shapes etc. 

Obviously this being an article I had to use materials that people would be able to source. It can be left unpainted if people prefer, etc. 

I have taken the black base reference from numerous sculptures I have seen in galleries ( there are numerous tat do not have black bases also) 

I also have to say that my smaller sculptures have always sold with black bases. So it is hard to know what is right.

Finally

I do not mind anyone commenting in my work. Just because I am a professional does not mean I know it all, or always get it right. There is a balance for me between what I want to make and the consumer. The consumer also often knows nothing about turning. 

So all constructive comments are welcome. Even the non constructive comments, I just do not take any notice of those.


----------



## OldWood (8 Jul 2010)

Hi Mark
Many thanks for the reasoned reply. 

The dislike of the black base started from the base that a wood sculpture that we bought recently was mounted on - and it looked such a cop out; "can't think of any way of mounting this - oh, yes a big block of cheap wood and we'll just paint it black - the punter won't know any better!". I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.

That's the explanation and it's now in mind like the cheap opt out that all too many nice pictures in the smaller art galleries are framed in.

Your black bases have worked well when they are shaped and extended almost as part of the piece, but rectangular black against a light coloured curved form does in my eye hard anchor it to the ground. It excessively exaggerates the contrasts of form and colour, whereas to appreciate the form as a shape in its own right, it should effectively float.

Hey, what do I know - I'm a mucky engineer who has difficulty enough expressing what he thinks let alone manage to be artistic.

Rob


----------



## mark sanger (9 Jul 2010)

OldWood":7t7lanfc said:


> Hi Mark
> Many thanks for the reasoned reply.
> 
> The dislike of the black base started from the base that a wood sculpture that we bought recently was mounted on - and it looked such a cop out; "can't think of any way of mounting this - oh, yes a big block of cheap wood and we'll just paint it black - the punter won't know any better!". I'm sure you can see where I'm coming from.
> ...



Rob 

You are right as am I.  as individuals that are subjected to different stimulus, likes, tastes etc we come to like what we do through our past and present contact with items. 

It's a bit like me not liking pasta very much due to an experience earlier on. But it does not mean others will not like pasta. 

The reason I used a black base on this one ( it is scorched not painted) as paint would eventually degrade outside. Is that if at time trying to compliment an item/sculpture etc what can happen is that the two pieces come together and you can lose some of the impact of the item trying to be displayed. 

Also by my scorching this black I was wanting to make the contrast between the two very obvious. 

As I say it is certainly something I will look at in the future but I am fairly happy with this one.


----------



## skeetoids (9 Jul 2010)

Hi Mark,

Have you given any thought to making the entire piece out of one bit of wood?

A big 4ft length, with your sculpture at the top, perhaps seperated by a small simple bead and then a sort of trumpet style base leadind up from the bottom. In my mind the wide base tapering in up to the little bead would act as a visual guide leading right up to the sculpture. 

I'm not usually one for giving advice but I think you've created a piece that everyone is very fond of. It must be humbling to know that many of us are already inspired to consider alterations to what is already a beautiful piece.

I too like it very much with the black base but my idea above may give it a more unified feeling. Worth thinking about, but maybe the trumpet style base would work on a smaller one.

Glad to see your posting some work again, i've missed your input. Have a word with George while your at it, 'tis about time he gave us another thought provoking piece too :lol:

Oops! Just realised I've posted this against the wrong piece :shock:  

Any chance a mod can move it please?


----------



## mark sanger (9 Jul 2010)

skeetoids":1go3wi14 said:


> Hi Mark,
> 
> Have you given any thought to making the entire piece out of one bit of wood?
> 
> ...



Hi Lee

I thought something was up but guessed it was about the sculpture. 

I am limited with lathe capacity, only have 1m between centre but may at a later stage buy an extension bed. Also due to the size and the offset nature of the turning there are large forces which while the lathe may cope the wood at the fixing point is the week spot. If I have a 20kg piece of wood come off the lathe it could hurt a little  For larger pieces I will probably do them entirely using a lancelot cutter for safety reasons. 

Funny you should say about the base and the trumpet form. I have been looking at chain saw artists to see what they do and present their work. Most of there work seems to morph out of the log which is nice. However I have to say I like a more contemporary feel to a piece as this is more the market I am aiming at.

But y it does not mean I can not do both. 

I have so much on at the moment and more ideas than I have time to be able to make them. At the moment I have over 80 unfinished pieces in my workshop. So I need to get some of them done and out to outlets. 

I am very pleased that people like my work and always welcome suggestions as often I may have missed it.


----------



## George Foweraker (9 Jul 2010)

Hi Mark.
I think if the base was a little wider and not quite as deep And if the cut out was turned to about two o clock and the ball was black it would be perfect.But what do i know :wink: 

Regards George


----------



## George Foweraker (9 Jul 2010)

Paint it yellow and call it sunflower :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Richard Findley (10 Jul 2010)

Well, I like it. My first thought was of angel wings when I saw the rim with cut out. The decoration reminds me of a feathery texture.

The red ball is the only thing I'm not 100% on but it's growing on me. I think the choice of the red with mottled black works quite well, certainly better than bright red or black.

The base looks good to me. I can see where some of the others are coming from but at the end of the day it is only the base. You are not making the statement with the base, it is purely there to hold up the sculpture. You could say it has very much a supporting role!!!

Cheers

Richard


----------



## Bodrighy (10 Jul 2010)

Personally I think a black base, especially if it is matt not shiny, sort of disappears and so the main feature, the sculpture stands out more. Natural wood would become part of the sculpture and possibly detract. I find the red ball intrusive somehow but that is purely a personal thing. Again I think I'd prefer it matt instead of gloss. If ever I get to make something like this I can experiment and see which is best for myself :lol: 

Pete


----------



## CHJ (10 Jul 2010)

skeetoids":3e0t2q2h said:


> ......Oops! Just realised I've posted this against the wrong piece :shock:
> 
> Any chance a mod can move it please?



modedit:I would have done if I had seen it sooner Lee, (and knew how  ) but I think it's now better left alone just to prove we are all, well most of us anyway, human :lol:


----------



## mark sanger (10 Jul 2010)

Hi all

Thank you for your input.

Richard 

Thank you. The red I wanted as a focal point. Due to the small size of the picture compared to the actual item in the flesh is that the red over powers the black. In the flesh the black is much more prominent and ties in the scorching to the centre of the sculpture. 

This is very much taste based and the sphere could be done away with, the colour changed, gold leafed, carved etc etc. 

I like the angle wings idea. 

Pete

the base on the sculpture is satin acrylic. I have to agree with you I prefer matt and have to source some matt spray. Chestnut I do not know why do not produce a matt spray but I know B& Q do one so I will get it from there. 

As you say and I am of the same opinion if the base was left wood it would for me conflict with the sculpture. 

These are quite fun as you can alter and come up with loads of ideas to change the design. It also means that from a selling point of view a vertical form takes up much less space that a horizontal form. 

Thank you all again.


----------



## tekno.mage (10 Jul 2010)

Another quick thought about bases for garden sculptures, Mark. How about using a short section from the top of an old oak gate post (the farm type which are around 4 - 6 inches square and made of oak heartwood.) This would be square-ish in secyion but rough & pre-weathered and potentially with some interesting cracking and weathering to the slightly curved top. As the bottom part of the post eventually rots through and the remaining part is then too short to reuse, they are often discarded or used for firewood. They do look really good after judicious application of a wire brush to remove any dirt, lichen, moss etc followed up by the gas torch treatment. 

Regarding a finish for bases for garden use, how about the external grade of Osmo oil (which has a built in UV protector)? I've used this very successfully over scorched oak in the past and once the oil has hardened (which takes around 24 hours for each coat) it "fixes" the black scorch marks just as well as spray on laquer and leaves a nice matt finish (unless you burnish it up!) with no black residue coming off on the fingers if it's handled.

tekno.mage


----------



## Terry Smart (12 Jul 2010)

mark sanger":12xsr9qr said:


> Chestnut I do not know why do not produce a matt spray



...because it's hard enough getting shops to take our full range as it is - our Ebonising Lacquer is a satin finish and I can imagine our stockists saying, understandably, that there is very little difference between them so why double-stock.


What do others think? Is there a need for a Matt Black Lacquer? Especially if you've used our Ebonising Lacquer...


----------



## mark sanger (12 Jul 2010)

Terry Smart":3grhr31c said:


> mark sanger":3grhr31c said:
> 
> 
> > Chestnut I do not know why do not produce a matt spray
> ...



Hi Terry 

I was thinking more of a matt lacquer to go over the top and protect. A total matt finish is needed at times and the satin for me is too much at times. 

But I appreciate that I am a minority and I fully understand the difficulty you have getting it all stocked.


----------



## Bodrighy (12 Jul 2010)

Mark, a lot of stores that stock floor finishes stock matt lacquer, bioth in aerosol and liquid form. Latter is cheaper if you have a gun. Most seem to be acrylic as well.

Pete


----------



## mark sanger (12 Jul 2010)

Bodrighy":n2c37euz said:


> Mark, a lot of stores that stock floor finishes stock matt lacquer, bioth in aerosol and liquid form. Latter is cheaper if you have a gun. Most seem to be acrylic as well.
> 
> Pete



Thanks Pete

I know B & Q do one but my nearest store is in Poole and hour away. 

Thanks for the advise.


----------

