# Record DML305 For Against



## Mally.C (3 Sep 2013)

Hi I'm in a bit of a quandary I am thinking of buying a small lathe (my 1st one) I've trolled the Internet for weeks looking.
So many to choose from one does this one does that the mind boggles .
I only have limited space and limited budget of £300 
The one that catches my eye is the Record DML305 can any one tell me the pros and cons of this lathe.
But not the manufactures speel. 
I'd rather hear it straight from the horses mouth. :deer (not a horse but close)

I Waite in Hope
Chris #-o


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## chipmunk (3 Sep 2013)

Hi Chris,
It's quite a nice lathe at that price but Record's obsession with 1MT fittings and the 3/4" x 16TPI headstock thread lets it down dreadfully IMHO.

If you think you can make do with a slightly smaller swing of 10" rather than 12" then I'd go for the Jet 1014 every time. This comes with a 1" x 8TPI headstock thread and 2MT fittings which are much more rigid and far superior IMHO. If you buy it from a Jet distributor you should be able to negotiate a price below the list price of £292 as well.

David Biven's shop has recently been taken over by his son I think and so I'd give him a call...
http://www.brimarc.com/stockists/David-Biven-Machinery-and-Tooling-145.htm

HTH
Jon


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## Doofusme (3 Sep 2013)

Hi Chris

Can't speak for the Record DML305 but I will shortly have for sale due to an upgrade a Scheppach DMT 450 complete with Dakota chuck for £150 so half the price and with chuck, P.M me if you are interested

Regards

Phil


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## paulm (3 Sep 2013)

Interesting thoughts on the 1MT aspect Jon. I used a Record CL3 for many years with a 1MT head and tailstock and the 3/4"x16 spindle and didn't find it a limiting factor at all even using the lathe at full capacity with out of balance large blanks.

Theoretically a larger size MT and spindle is of course better with larger workpieces but I honestly doubt it would make any difference at all on this size of lathe in practice to be honest.

Cheers, Paul


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## Spindle (3 Sep 2013)

Hi

I have to agree with Paul - as a Record CL4 user for the last 12 or so years I have never been limited by its 1MTs or 3/4 x 16 spindle thread, nor have I ever wished it had a 2MT or different thread. The full suite of accessories are readily available to fit the Record.

Regards Mick


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## Mally.C (3 Sep 2013)

Thanks Paul for the offer but a little to far to travel


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## Random Orbital Bob (3 Sep 2013)

I'm also a CL4 user and its rock solid, as Paul M says - even with unwieldy out of true blanks. Record are very very well known for their lathes too and that 5 year warranty is not to be sniffed at at this end of the market because the motors are not that bullet proof. Record will replace any defective parts with no quibble. I've used a lot of their kit for many years and their service is absolutely superb. Even when stuff was out of warranty they still replace parts


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## chipmunk (4 Sep 2013)

Well I knew that criticising Record would not be popular but sorry guys I have to disagree with you all about 1MT and 3/4" x 16 TPI. It is a poor relation to the 1"x8TPI/2MT alternative.

I'd have to ask the question have you tried lathes with both MT sizes? If you still prefer 1MT then that's fine but if you really have tried them both in-anger then I seriously doubt you'd come to the conclusion that buying a MT1 lathe over a MT2 lathe was a good idea, which is after all the point here.

When drilling with the tailstock quill the flex in 1MT chuck arbors is noticeably much greater than 2MT - the neck between the tapers is only about 10mm diameter compared to about 16mm on a MT2. It doesn't sound much but it makes all the difference to drill wander if you're using drills over 10mm diameter which isn't large even by mini-lathe standards. Does it make sense that the drill bit is less likely to bend than the chuck attachment?

The other problem with MT1 is entirely practical and that is that it is far too small to clean easily or to see if there is muck inside. I can get my little finger most of the way inside an MT2 taper and so can feel any swarf or muck in there.

Finally, I don't want to rubbish Record but at the same time I'm not sure that Record's reputation is any better than Axminster's to be honest. Richard from Axminster is often to be seen on this forum and will comment if anyone has problems. I've never seen anyone from Record do the same. I also believe that Axminster listen and respond to statements on this forum - you only have to see what happened about the SK115 chuck spindle locking. It got a bad review from us on here and other forums and guess what - it changed. (I should point out that Axminster are the importers for Jet in the UK via their Brimarc name and I am not involved with them at all - I'm just a satisfied customer.)

HTH
Jon


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## Random Orbital Bob (4 Sep 2013)

Lets be careful about making this a debate about Axy versus Record. Whilst enjoying many of Records products, I've probably spent triple that in Axy too  I entirely agree that Axy give absolutely exemplary service. I've had great experiences with both companies to be fair. I think the real difference between them is that Record is a manufacturer with direct distribution as well as third party of their own range and Axy are a mass distributor of other folks kit.

But both give great service. Record do have a very long established reputation in the lathe market and I'm sure that's why they feel confident in their 5 year warranty. I can't really speak for Jet as though whilst I've seen them often at exhibitions, I've never used one myself and of course Axy aren't actually manufacturing them.

I doubt any new buyer would suffer in buying tools from either Axy or Record. I certainly haven't. That 5 yr warranty is attractive though.


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## chipmunk (4 Sep 2013)

Bob, I agree - I was trying to provide some backup for the uninitiated that buying from Axminster would not be in the least bit risky when compared to Record. 

I am not so sure that the Record 5year warranty is actually as valuable as you suggest though. 
The clauses here would suggest that it is quite restrictive...
http://www.recordpower.co.uk/pages/warranty-details

Perhaps Record are fairly lenient in applying it though and I have had failures of Axminster equipment outside the warranty period and found them to be most helpful too.

...but I have never actually bought any Record machinery although I have used Record lathes over the years. 
I actually own two Jet lathes; a 1642 and a 1014 which are my 3rd and 4th lathes respectively. 

HTH
Jon


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## paulm (4 Sep 2013)

chipmunk":3unzj72h said:


> I'd have to ask the question have you tried lathes with both MT sizes? If you still prefer 1MT then that's fine but if you really have tried them both in-anger then I seriously doubt you'd come to the conclusion that buying a MT1 lathe over a MT2 lathe was a good idea, which is after all the point here.



Yes, I have used both extensively. I never had any issues what so ever with 1MT when using the CL3 up to it's maximum capacities. In my experience there is no practical need for 2MT on these size machines.



chipmunk":3unzj72h said:


> When drilling with the tailstock quill the flex in 1MT chuck arbors is noticeably much greater than 2MT - the neck between the tapers is only about 10mm diameter compared to about 16mm on a MT2. It doesn't sound much but it makes all the difference to drill wander if you're using drills over 10mm diameter which isn't large even by mini-lathe standards. Does it make sense that the drill bit is less likely to bend than the chuck attachment?



Again, never had any issue over several years of use and using 1" or bigger sawtooth forstner bits and different sized hss bits.



chipmunk":3unzj72h said:


> The other problem with MT1 is entirely practical and that is that it is far too small to clean easily or to see if there is muck inside. I can get my little finger most of the way inside an MT2 taper and so can feel any swarf or muck in there.



Haha, seriously ? I found the end of a pencil, sharpened piece of dowel, cotton bud, whatever, was quite useful 



chipmunk":3unzj72h said:


> Well I knew that criticising Record would not be popular



I am not particularly a Record fanboy, their kit I have found decent enough and their support likewise, just as I have Axminster, I am just passing on many years of extensive experience that never found practical issues or concerns with 1MT's on the size lathes being looked at here, and I personally think it is a non issue in choosing a lathe of this size. 

We can agree to disagree, but I wouldn't want the OP to not have balanced input whatever they decide to choose in the end 

Cheers, Paul


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## Random Orbital Bob (4 Sep 2013)

chipmunk":d2i4ha11 said:


> Bob, I agree - I was trying to provide some backup for the uninitiated that buying from Axminster would not be in the least bit risky when compared to Record.
> 
> I am not so sure that the Record 5year warranty is actually as valuable as you suggest though.
> The clauses here would suggest that it is quite restrictive...
> ...



Entirely fair enough Jon. I've not used the jets but its clear they're good lathes and are in very wide use. I have used a lot of different record products incl Bandsaw and in another life a P/T and also an overhead fine DX. I had niggles every now and then with motors etc and they were just superb on the after sales, incl as I say with one that was past warranty. My sense of the company was that the products are really guaranteed for life though I'd hate to have to test that. They have a real "Sheffield cast iron" sort of vibe about them and it would almost be embarrassing to their culture to have one of their machines not be working. I guess if the repair cost a fortune this good will may vanish but my personal exp has been really good.

But then that's also true of Axy who have worked really hard to make me happy over the years. I had a long running issue over an uneven topped table saw, again in another life and they were excellent in trying to fix it. In the end it was manufactured in the far east and they had no control over the part so couldn't fix it but they did offer me a refund.

I reckon in the end either venue would be a safe bet for the OP. But I can't speak to the 2MT or tpi issue as I've only used 1 and 3/4 personally. I have however used pretty big and out of true blanks doing natural edge work and not found any problems. I've met Paul M who is a thoroughly decent bloke and his setup is very impressive, he has many years turning experience.

I guess there must be a tipping point at which the size of the work piece exceeds the capability of the taper and spindle size to keep it steady....but it would seem that at this end of the market, with this sized lathe that risk is very low. Good points though and all well made


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## chipmunk (4 Sep 2013)

paulm":3fm8ants said:


> We can agree to disagree, but I wouldn't want the OP to not have balanced input whatever they decide to choose in the end



Hi Paul,
Yes, as you say we'll have to agree to disagree.

I think that the OP wanted to know the pros and cons of the Record DML305 - presumably versus others in the price range. So the spindle thread/MT dimensions are clearly relevant IMHO. 

Some might argue that in the ~65 years since Coronet settled on the 3/4" & 7/8" x 16 TPI and 1MT configuration, designs have not improved, but sorry I don't agree.

HTH
Jon


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## chipmunk (4 Sep 2013)

Having stirred up the hornets' nest already, this may make interesting reading and may help the OP too...
http://www.bigtreetools.com/articles/Todays-Lathes.pdf 

It's only one man's view of course but is a welcome change IMHO from the bland articles we get in our magazines which masquerade as equipment reviews :wink:

Jon


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## Spindle (4 Sep 2013)

Hi

I owned an MT2 / 1"x 8 lathe for about four years before I replaced it with the CL4, so I guess I'm qualified to comment.

I think the scale of the proposed lathe is being overlooked here, MT1 will not be over stressed in my experience.

Regards Mick


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## Mally.C (4 Sep 2013)

Hope I haven't started a North South war.
I only wanted to know your thoughts on the DML305.
Seriously thank you for your comments they are much appreciated I will take them all on board and have another look at the mini lathes.
Cheers 
Chris


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## tekno.mage (4 Sep 2013)

The woodturning club I belong to owns a Record Power DML305, an Axminster AT1416 and a Vicmarc VL100. I have used all three lathes and they all get a fair bit of abuse by novices too 

Regarding the Record Power DML305 I have to say that despite my own reservations regarding MT1 vs MT2 I have been pleasantly surprised at how well the DML305 has performed and how good the build quality is for it's low price. It's difficult to compare the lathes directly as both the Vicmarc and the Axminster have electronic variable speed and the DML305 does not - but having said that, changing the speed by moving the belt on the DML305 is easy enough. I would say that the 12" swing of the DML is much better for bowl turning than the meagre 10" on the Vicmarc - and I don't just mean in terms of the size of bowls that can be turned - even small bowls are easier to make on the DML305 as there is more room to swing the tool over the bed of the lathe. I've often used the DML305 for drilling and not found the MT1 taper to be a problem at all.

Our club bought the DML305 so we had a lathe that was similar to a lot of small starter lathes that novices begin with - and so they could try out turning at the club on a machine similar to their own (not everyone has the luxury of electronic variable speed), but we have found it also quite suitable for some of the demos we give at country fairs etc - it's compact and much lighter in weight than the Vicmarc if you have to carry it aound - and it performs very well when demonstrating a variety of projects such as small bowls, vases, boxes, fruit, lightpulls etc. It's reasonably quiet running too which is good for public demonstrations!

The only thing I really didn't like about it was that when brand new, the motor got very hot in use - however, Record Power assured us that this would settle down when the lathe was "run in" a bit, and despite my cynacism at this remark, it proved to be true and the motor no longer gets any hotter than those on our other lathes.


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