# WIP Roubo: Finishing



## wcndave (30 May 2014)

I've been blathering away in different threads about various related topics, so I thought it time to put it all together in one thread.

I recently got some 34mm and 60mm stock of waney edged European (Soft) Maple for two builds.

The 34mm is for kitchen drawers, and I have been having fun even thinking about them as they are cupped, not straight and twisted. Also been engaged in some discussion about snipe which I still need to resolve as it impacts my cutting strategy.

However they seem like pure joy compared to the 60mm boards I have been processing for my Roubo build.

I have Maguire's wagon vice and pinless leg vice on order, one a present from my father, and I am building a split top Roubo mostly based on the woodwhisperer guild project, modified to hardware and stock sizes I will be using.

I got the boards stacked and then marked out the top laminate pieces and the legs using a chalkline. (A most excellent tool for larger work). The rails will come from scrap wood from my house building project, so I'll be mixing Maple with Larch in the end.







I started thinking that I would use a jig saw, however faced a few issues. Firstly due to cupping and bulges it wasn't long enough, Secondly it was hard work keeping straight (although I could have used a straightedge), and Finally it was too slow.

I then went to the track saw, which is a festool TS55 - too short to cut right through, so I tried cutting from both sides.

Where I have stopped cuts with a partial cross cut to preserve as much length as possible, this sometimes proved hard to match up. Also I had the boards in smiley faced mode, and when turned over, they tended to pinch the blade.

One piece just didn't part off, and when I gave up and cross cut, I found out why.






I then tried to finish the track saw cut with the jigsaw, however doh! that can't possibly work! Found that out quickly.

After picking up the pieces of my jigsaw and putting them back together again, I realised that the cross cut i had done freehand had left only 4-5mm of stock and I'd just hand sawn it off.

So my final process is to use track saw for a series of passes which takes me to about 5cm.
Final pass free hand with track saw (It's actually really easy to keep it straight in the existing slot)
Hand saw the final 5mm - actually very fast.






I worked fairly late into the night (about 11pm) using a halogen lamp.






This morning there's some mess around






But I have 5 of the top boards (from 11) and 2 out of 8 of the leg boards done.






I reckon now I've got the process sorted, I should be a bit quicker with the rest.

Then on to the process of planing these monsters!


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## Andy RV (31 May 2014)

I've got to admire your determination and it makes me for grateful for the (straight) timber we can easily get over here!


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## wcndave (31 May 2014)

Thanks. Got another two top pieces out of a board last night. Turns out some of them have wavy metal plates driven I the ends to prevent splitting I guess although I would have thought the stresses would still be there just waiting. So it's lucky I cut the laminate tops 30 cm oversize as I don't know how long these plates are.

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## morfa (31 May 2014)

Nice start. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## wcndave (31 May 2014)

A few more boards done today, beginning to look like I have stock ready to start! 






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## Journeyman_uk (31 May 2014)

Your going to be finished long before me


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## wcndave (31 May 2014)

Well I'm now cutting the boards for the kitchen so I'm not sure about that ;-)

Thankfully I have the use of this large barn to work in.

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## wcndave (1 Jun 2014)

Found some saw horse replacements for the beer crates, and my back has already sent me a thank you present and card.

I also found the track saw cutting out quite often due to overheating, so I went and lumped my extraction up to the barn which seems to help cool it.






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## Andy RV (4 Jun 2014)

Which TS are you using? I've got a 55 that I managed to burn out ripping some 45mm mahogany with the standard blade, it was repaired free of charge but I certainly learnt it's capabilities and won't do that again.  (hammer)


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Jun 2014)

:idea: I've not seen your plans, but I've been watching a load of videos and one brilliant idea (I thought) was (if not having a well) to have a removable strip (it only looked to be about 40mm wide) down the centre, which was rebated to lay flush , but could be flipped to stand proud for use as a stop. It also gives access through the centre of the bench for cramps.
It probably makes the handling of the top easier as well, being in two parts - although of course they could be joined at the ends.
Just an idea.


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## wcndave (4 Jun 2014)

Andy,I have the 55 and sometimes wished I'd gone for the grunt of the 75. I am also using the standard blade which is meant for sheet goods, really I should get the rip blade, but balk at 100 euros for a blade.

Phil,I will be doing just that, it's called the split top roubo, and the wood whisperer plans cover it in infinite detail. Also jord from Australia has good videos.

I will do in three parts to run through thicknesserr and planer however I may not be able to manage the weight! 

Then I will join two of them.

On hold whilst I work on kitchen drawers although I could use a good bench for that! 

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## wcndave (12 Jun 2014)

So when I have to switch off the planer at 11 pm (even though the neighbours say it doesn't disturb them), I get some time away from kitchen drawers and back on roubo.

I have been hand planing the edges of my laminate timbers to clean up the "track sawing from both sides" mess.

So I am looking at getting them ready for the planer / thicknesser and given their size and the fact my beds are 1.4m on top and 90 underneath I was wondering about best strategy to get them straight.

I have plenty of meat width ways, they are 15cm, however would like to keep as much of the 5cm thickness as possible.

Should I hand plane in a deliberate concave or convex edge? Ie is one shape going to result in tail chasing and the other give better results given the length? 

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## Charlie Woody (12 Jun 2014)

wcndave":2bm4tb5y said:


> Andy,I have the 55 and sometimes wished I'd gone for the grunt of the 75. I am also using the standard blade which is meant for sheet goods, really I should get the rip blade, but balk at 100 euros for a blade.
> 
> Phil,I will be doing just that, it's called the split top roubo, and the wood whisperer plans cover it in infinite detail. Also jord from Australia has good videos.
> 
> ...



I held off buying the rip blade for mt 55 until I needed to rip waney edge off a load of 50mm oak. The fine cut blade coold not do it, but the rip blade went though it quite easily. Much easier for you and the tool!


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## wcndave (12 Jun 2014)

I'm done now!  

Still probably good advice for others. I did it in multiple passes to try to avoid stressing the tool.


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## wcndave (13 Jun 2014)

So I got four laminate strips planed. I had to use the skip planing method and although my shop is eight metres it was pretty tight.






I managed to edge them, however one has a clear bow along the edge.

I maintained five cms thickness so four is enough for front slab.

I then used my domino to create alignment holes.






Glue up was stressful as I ran out of glue! By using all of some old cheap stuff which was rather tacky but seemed ok, and all my titebond I just had enough.

Then I applied a couple of cramps.






You can really tell difference between besseys and the cheap Dakota cramps.

I felt I was going to break them and they were going to deform. However I do seem to have got enough pressure overall.

I have no idea how I will get this through planer/thicknesser, and I still have the seven piece slab to come! 

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## wcndave (28 Jun 2014)

So I laminated the seven boards after much lugging and planing / thicknessing.

I then had to go to my brother in laws construction company to pick up 80 osb sheets for my house build and I suggested we take my slabs.

Ten minutes after we arrived I have flat and parallel slabs! So so so much easier! 











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## wcndave (28 Jun 2014)

Bench back at hq.





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## rdesign (28 Jun 2014)

hey 
just a mention on the festal ts55! the rip blade is needed for solid timber when going along the grain the fine cut cut blade can be used for crosscuts.

warning if you put it into safety mode from over loading please un plunge it but hold the trigger until it cools down it ticks over and stops the motor from seizing up while cooling what could happen if you just turn it off and leave it cool. its all in the owners manual but who reads those  

nice bench I buy all my timber in ireland from french milled waney edge timber. imported you get better board color consistence as you can see the boards as a tree trunk with stickers holding them apart. have had the difficulties you r facing chainsaw in my weapon of choice to get it into more manageable sizes.


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## wcndave (28 Jun 2014)

I did feel that using the right blade would have better, however for the price...

I didn't know about holding the trigger whilst cooling. What's a man awl? 

I still have non square front and back, but good enough for my needs! 

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## wcndave (1 Jul 2014)

Ok looking at my blade I decided I need a rip one. And one for mitre saw.

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## morfa (2 Jul 2014)

Glad to see you've got the tops sorted. It's coming along nicely. Can't wait to see it finished.


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## wcndave (2 Jul 2014)

The only shame was that I couldn't take the opportunity to square up the front / back edges and bring the slabs to final width whilst there. (we had major time pressure).

I don't actually think it's going to matter that much, I might set up a jig with a router at some point, not sure.

Also I don't mind the bench being slightly deeper than planned, although my end cap will be massive now!

I think my advice to anyone without heavy duty industrial type machinery is that even if you can make the laminates for the slabs your self, take the finished glue up somewhere to be flattened. It can only cost £20 or so for 10 minutes work, and it really would have taken me hours and hours, and the result would not have been as good.


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## owenmcc (2 Jul 2014)

http://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/...h googlelink?gclid=CPSuo9KTp78CFRHHtAodO2gAng

Is this the blade you're looking for? €100 seems a very steep price, although I've noticed you'd need some international delivery...


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## wcndave (2 Jul 2014)

It costs that much here, but I ordered a bunch of stuff from axminster and with 14.50 international delivery its not too bad.

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## owenmcc (3 Jul 2014)

Good, you certainly won't regret it.

You can count me as part of the embarrassed club of people trying to rip hardwood with the universal blade, it doesn't work! The panther definitely does.


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## wcndave (14 Jul 2014)

Yup, bow down for sure. The rip blade does a very nice job indeed! 

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## wcndave (24 Feb 2015)

Not done anything for a while what with kitchen building., but the last couple of weeks seen good progress 

Installed maguire tail vice, dog strips, made dogs stretchers and legs! 




























Fantastic to have something to pinch work between!


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## Scottdimelow (24 Feb 2015)

Those big machines are awesome! Nice WIP so far.


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## wcndave (25 Feb 2015)

I missed quite a few steps, some of these may be of interest, there's certainly been a lot of effort over the last few weeks.

I don't think I will build anything quite as big again. The sheer hassle of moving these large glued up boards, or leg assemblies.

It's quite tricky to find a balance between quality and speed. Certainly SWMBO does not see this as a priority, and I have 6 oak chairs to get finished for kitchen! However until I get this out of the way, valuable space is used, and no decent bench available.

It's only a workbench! However I will never build another like it (for myself), and therefore I should make it as perfect as possible, however I want to just finish it and get on with "real" projects... This conflict is quite hard to resolve, I think I am finding a good middle ground, although some of my mortise and tenons and dovetails leave something to be desired.

I forgot to mention on previous post, that cutting out the rebate for the leg vice attachment was done using the veritas mini router plane we got free from a UKW trip to Axminster. It was the first time used for something real, and it was very nice indeed!

Below we see the rough planing. There's no way to get a straight face / edge, or right angle between face and edge with the length of these pieces compared to the size of my planer. So I find getting the worst of the curve out by hand is really the only way, followed by some planing and then a fair amount of thicknessing, although really that amounts to "skip planing" where planing is the Murrican version in that expression...






This is what it looks like even after the first pass of hand planing






I made the square dogholes in a piece of the top laminate, using a template and router, first with guide bushing, and then with pattern bit.

There is a slight angle (2 deg) and a cutout for the top to stop the dogs falling through. The dog then when pinched moves to upright position. They're really quite nice.

Routing the doghole strip:





Gluing up strip - it was attached to another thin piece to make a complete "board" for the laminate





Attaching doghole strip to front laminate:





I made a mistake here and tried to keep the whole thing to a perfect thickness, and used dominos to align.
However my last board is not square, leaving me with an angle towards front of bench, and anything placed in dogs can rock back forth.
With hindsight i should have made the last two, the doghole and front laminates slightly proud and planed down to a finish.
Now I either have to hand plane the entire top flat, or route out and put in an insert on the top front laminate.

In order to keep things aligned during glue ups, I use dominoes, however they tend to be a very tight fit, so I like to bake my biscuits first.






5 mins at 100deg does the trick. I had the oven for tempering steel when knife making, however it's mostly used for baking biscuits and dominoes.


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## wcndave (25 Feb 2015)

For the end cap, I created the dovetail on the bandsaw and refined by hand. Getting the mortise and tenon right took quite a bit of finessing, and working on the end grain to get a flat end / shoulder line on the top was a real chore. (I'm not the best at the hand tool side)






However I then found I have a split in my end cap. The split was internal and could not be seen until I had cut square the end and created the dovetails.






I had planned to glue this in, however I don't know what to do about the split. If I leave it and have to replace it later, then I can't glue it in. If I make another, I have to find some more 8 quarter stock, and go through the entire process from scratch.

So I decided to go with the removable end cap option, however then I realised that my extra thick laminate pieces, at 5.5cm mean my mortise has to be about 6cm longer than the tenon, so I cut 1cm off the tenon, and extended the mortise as far as I dared towards the tail vice mounting points.

Now the end cap can be removed as required, which also means I could re-plane/thickness the tops to make them flat (not on my machines though, back to brother in laws factory for that), however the joint at the front is not perfect, so I was a bit worried that as it can move back/forward (when standing at bench normally), that the tail vice might have some movement in that direction.

Here's the finished joint






I then flipped the front of the top over, and installed the tail vice.






The tail vice is a thing of beauty and runs so incredibly smoothly. Precision engineered and made in the UK, with a hand created patina, I am very happy with it.

Having flipped bench the other way again, I could then use this to grip my work whilst hand planing all the leg and stretcher / rail parts, and it was a pure joy compared to clamping down.






The leg and stretcher parts were planed and thicknessed, each leg made up up two 4/4 parts glued together, and then I cut all the mortises for them. I am using draw boring to hold it all together.

I also created the tenons on all the rails, including the long ones, on my woodrat which is mounted chest height on the wall, and did an excellent job, if it was a little hard to hold these big workpieces vertical.


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## wcndave (25 Feb 2015)

I already posted on the leg assemblies, and boy are those things sturdy. It's actually a struggle to lift them onto the bench.

I turned my front slab bottom up, and then had the task of getting the back slab carried from garage and into place. I have not moved it since my Bro-in-law helped me when we planed it, and I ruptured a few things, knocked over a few things, and generally struggled big time!






Now it's in place and I can put the legs on to cut the mortises. This was a dry run, as I won't actually do this until the long rails are installed, however I wanted to check for dog holes.






So, new challenge...

In the plan, there was a dog in the middle of the tail vice leg, and you drilled a hole down, and in from front of leg, so you could push the dog out with your finger.

As my tail vice is different from the one Mark "wood whisperer" is using and I didn't allow for it, I ended up in the wrong place. I have two dogs hitting my legs. One glances on the inside, so I have cut a slot to get my finger in to push the dog out.






The other is more problematic, as it coincides with the draw bore connection of the rail. Basically I can't see anything I can do here, other than try to use a short dog which is custom made for that hole, and will always stick out, or have to be removed (the others I can push down below surface to get them out the way). You just know that's the dog I am going to lose all the time, on the other hand, how often do a need to pinch something so short between dogs?






I could move the legs and shorten my rails, however a) they are already cut and custom fit and ready to go and b) they have draw bore holes, so I'd have to cut a certain length off which may not work.

Serves me right for using the original plans and sketchup and trying to wing my adjustments, rather than drawing my own custom plan based on my modifications!

Also the bench is about 66cm deep (26"), i would rather have had 23" or so, however due to time constraints, that's how they came back from my factory visit, and I am not going to mess with those beasts any further.


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## wcndave (26 Feb 2015)

Well, good news!

I had some friends over to help with some of the lifting, and I managed to get the mortises for the legs cut, and the bench assembled, old bench out the way, new bench in, and lop off the ends with a handsaw.

I got a friend to do the sawing, reckon I should charge him for the "training" as he wants to get into woodworking...











I still need to clean up the ends, make and install leg vice + sliding deadman + bottom shelf, and finish, oh and small matter of flattening...

I rather think all those things will take a back seat now until I do some house projects, given the bench is now serviceable...


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## noddy67 (26 Feb 2015)

Nice looking bench wcndave. Just mostly completed my own bench recently out of beech but really wanted to use maple like you have. Also just finished the sliding deadman. A few pics here if its of any interest: 

design-advice-welcome-t86916.html

If you are looking for a front vice I can highly recommend the Benchcrafted one. Lovely piece of kit


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## wcndave (26 Feb 2015)

Thanks! I looked at beech but rejected it for some reason.

I have a MaGuire pinless leg vice, with a wooden screw.

You can see I have already cut the leg to take the nut on the back and for the pin assembly.

It really appealed to me to have firstly a UK hand made vice, and also the pinless one seems much less hassle.

You can see it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI38vYEYOe0

I think it's quite important to decide on the hardware before you start building a bench, as the modifications to the leg are very different depending on what you go for. Woodwhisperer project used the benchcrafted one, and it does look nice, but I still think no pin will be great.


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## wcndave (26 Feb 2015)

I would be interested as to how much use a sliding deadman gets, It seems really cool, however not sure how much it REALLY gets used.

Your (noddy) bench looks really great. I stayed away from tool well, breadboard ends and drawers / cupboards, however that's the beauty of this, we can all do what we prefer or think is best for us.

Your workmanship looks to be on a completely different level from mine, I'll just be happy to have a nice solid non-racking flatish surface with all the work holding options I need. Maybe I'll make the next one better.... erm...


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## wcndave (27 Feb 2015)

Was about to press the button for some holdfasts from workshop heaven when it occurred to me that the reason they work is the thickness of the bench. In a deadman you have perhaps 1" thickness, so perhaps standard holdfasts won't work so well?

Perhaps the type that have the ability to screw down would be better. Any experience or recommendations?


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## gasman (27 Feb 2015)

HI Dave
I have a roubo which I made last year - I did a WIP for it
I use the sliding deadman all the time to clamp long pieces to the side of the bench. So you put it in the leg vice, move the sliding deadman until it is towards the other end of the piece, rest the piece on a dog inserted into the deadman at an appropriate height, and then you can use a holdfast through one of the other holes on the deadman to clamp it to the 4 inch edge of the bench - works a treat. It means you do not have to drill horizontal holes in the side of the bench. My bench is 90mm thick and the holdfasts work fine - you need a good 3/4" bit to drill them all. I also fitted a crotch which I use all the time too
Good luck
Mark


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## Phil Pascoe (27 Feb 2015)

Run a housing in the right hand leg and insert a piece of "Spur" type shelf support. You can then put a shelf bracket any height you wish - the only downside is that it is as far from the vice as the right leg, but it's great for doors and the like.


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## wcndave (27 Feb 2015)

Phil, that sounds like an interesting idea, I do already have 3 holes for holdfasts in that back leg, and don't often do doors, so I will see how I go and then bear it in mind if i find I need more options for height when holding on that leg.

Mark (gasman), your build looks really nice. I was curious as to why you had the holes going back from leg vice, as you can use the end vice to pinch work, and as you said in your WIP, the end grain may not hold it so well.

I see you have some holdfasts in your deadman, however i was thinking about the gripping strength.

As per Roubo's drawings, the grip comes from the angle and pressure against the sides:






And I read some people with extra thick tops had to make some relief holes for them to work. I was wondering if this still worked with a deadman of 1" thick, or if I should go for:


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## gasman (27 Feb 2015)

The holdfasts in the deadman are remarkably strong and make everything very solid so you can plane in any direction once it is clamped
The holes behind the leg vice are used on occasions when I have something wide and short to clamp and plane - they are very useful when used in conjunction with a dog in another hole - and I have been meaning to get some Veritas adjustable bench dogs which will make them even more useful
Regards Mark


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## noddy67 (27 Feb 2015)

wcndave thanks although there are plenty of mistakes in mine. Would not put in a tool well if I could redo it. I think the split top Roubo design much more useful. The tool well collects dust/shavings and doesn't add much in my opinion.

Too early to say how much use the deadman will get but having spent too long looking at benches in books and online I really liked the look of them and given that the workshop is a bit of a haven from the outside world. enjoying being at the bench is a big rationale for the build in the first place. 

I have the veritas holdfast you pictured and really like it.


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## wcndave (27 Feb 2015)

I was looking again at yours, and realised a traditional holdfast won't go in your deadman cos of the cupboards behind it!


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## noddy67 (27 Feb 2015)

No but am toying with putting some round dog holes in the table top so I can use regular holdfasts on there. Not fully decided yet.

Next project is a Maloof style low back chair and then a tool cabinet for the wall. Should keep me busy for quite a while.

You in Italy? Nice


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## wcndave (27 Feb 2015)

Looking in my cupboard I can only find boiled linseed oil. I've seen polymerized mentioned, any reason not to use boiled?


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## wcndave (4 Mar 2015)

To expand on my previous comment, I am wanting to finish the top of the Roubo so I can start to use it without getting it dirty.

I've seen oil / varnish blends used, polymerised linseed oil, danish oil etc... however all I have is some pure boiled linseed oil.

Is this a suitable finish? I tried a small test piece and it does yellow somewhat..


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## mouppe (5 Mar 2015)

I think the best finish is no finish. I used to have an oil finish on my workbench but I planed it off over time when I periodically flatten it. I prefer it raw. I don't see how an oil finish will keep it any cleaner than no finish.


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## wcndave (5 Mar 2015)

I know what you mean, however I will probably flatten it every 5 years, so don't mind a coat of oil then.

It does look nice raw, however if I put a sumdgy finger on it, it won't come off. glue spills, other liquids, eg spraying wood to raise grain, sharpening oils etc... I kind of feel better with a protective coat which means I can give it a wipe.


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## wcndave (6 Mar 2015)

So I mixed some penetrative oil varnish with boiled linseed oil. Getting all around the bench and legs was a challenge but I think I got it all.


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## wcndave (13 Mar 2015)

More progress and photos, there's pressure to get back to doing the kitchen, so being working quite hard on it!

Firstly some that come before the last photos, this is during hand planing the top to mostly pretty quite flat... not perfect, but definitely good enough, and no lip from front to back slab.


























Then the old bench, just to remind me what it was like... I actually cut the legs down 5" and gave it to my kids, vice included. Were they grateful! nope, they just started fighting over who got access to the vice!











Leg vice was nice, as in tricky. First a 70mm hole in 50mm wood... used two plastic pattern jigs and a bushing guide to cut the first 40mm or so.






Then turned it upside down, and used a 1/2" patter bit to finish. Turned out well.






Then the relief curves on the leg vice. Found a spokeshave best for this, took a while mind you.






I tapped for M6 screws for the screw garter.

Fitting was a bit tricky, the distance between holes, plus the angle on the pin, fitting of the garter etc, plus other various slight errors made it tough, and it has to be quite precise.






First I had larger angle at the top instead of bottom.






But after a lot of faffing, I got the angle, and the distance correct, and with some wax on the wooden thread, it goes on nicely. Really tight, no pin to insert at the bottom, and a very large capacity.

The action is extremely smooth until I tighten the garter to the vice, however it's smooth enough for easy use. The leg angles out slightly at the top, until it goes tight, and then goes straight. I notice that if you tighten more, it goes in at the bottom, however I will put it to use for a while before any final finessing.

Then I finished the leg vice with the oil / varnish mix, and did the second (and last) coat on the bench.











When the oil has dried off, I shall fit it together.

At that point I will call it done for now.

I still need to do the sliding deadman, although I can't see it getting loads of use, so leaving for now.
Also the centre divider, which again I don't need right now, although I already find the gap useful for clamps.
Round dogholes in the front and back slabs also need to be done, however I have no holdfasts, and with the tragic death of Richard Tomes, I will wait on that and see if anything crops up. Workshop Heaven have some I might go for, but not important right now.
I have grooves ready for a lower shelf, however I don't need the storage, so will also leave for now, I like to get under to fit clamps and sweep (not that you'd tell from pictures)
Also need to attach the leather to the insides of the vice, which I am going to go and do right now!

I will shortly be able to use the bench full on, and it will never look the same again!

It's been one hell of a journey, and SWMBO does not understand why I went on it, expensive and time consuming, however ultimately worth it for a once in a lifetime trip!


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## Andy RV (14 Mar 2015)

The bench looks great and will last for generations, good work.


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## wcndave (16 Mar 2015)

Andy RV":2uqqxsei said:


> The bench looks great and will last for generations, good work.


Thanks


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