# Japanese Samurai Laminated Plane Blades



## scooby (18 Aug 2006)

I really need a replacement iron for my Bailey 5 1/2. The original Stanley iron won't hold an edge at all and is chipping VERY easily. 

I was going to get a Clifton iron and 2 piece chipbreaker but upon reading the fitting requirements I don't think it will fit my plane (it's an old one, which I've read have narrower throats).

As an alternative I saw Japanese Samurai Laminated Plane Blades listen on the Axminster site. I'm thinking of trying one of these with the stanley chipbreaker. Are these irons any good?

Or would a clifton iron with the original stanley chipbreaker work?

thanks


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## jasonB (18 Aug 2006)

Not tried the Japanese blades but I did get a Lie-Nielson replacement blade for my old style stanley 601/2 block plane and am very pleased with it. Took about a week to arrive and the exchange rate is quite good at the moment  

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?cat=512

Jason


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## Paul Chapman (18 Aug 2006)

Hi Scooby,

I fitted a Clifton blade and two-piece cap iron to my Record planes. Because of the extra thickness of both the blade and the cap iron I needed an exra-long screw and a longer 'Y' lever, both of which Clifton supplied (free of charge  ). I also needed to file the mouth of the planes. There was a marked improvement in performance.

Subsequently I bought three Clifton planes (nos. 4.5, 6 & 7), which, in my view, are head and shoulders above Record and Stanley. In particular, I really like the bedrock style frog which enables you to increase and decrease the width of the mouth without faffing about dismantling the plane.

However, to answer your question, yes the Stanley chipbreaker should fit a Clifton blade. You might get away with the original screw and 'Y' lever, but if not, longer ones are available.

Hope this helps :wink: 

Paul


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## MIGNAL (18 Aug 2006)

I have had one of the replacement Japanese blades from Axminster, can't say I'm a fan. The steel is hard and the edge lasts but it's the same thickness as the standard blade and I prefer the slightly thicker blades offered by others - especially as I sharpen without a guide. Hock? Lie Nielsen, Clifton and Ashley Iles all offer alternatives.


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## Colin C (18 Aug 2006)

I use one and am very happy with it  
Its in my No6


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## Alf (19 Aug 2006)

Scooby, you could look into a L-N or Hock improved cap iron (chip breaker). I incline to the heresy that the cap iron gives better value for money in plane performance improvement than the iron. The latter is more an edge retention improvement, although thicker irons do help PP to a certain extent of course.

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (19 Aug 2006)

Scooby,

I think there is certainly some merit in Alf's suggestion about improved performance with a better cap iron. When I started modifying my planes I began by replacing the cap irons and that certainly resulted in some significant improvement. If you don't want to go down the road of filing the mouth of your plane, from my experience you could fit a Clifton cap iron (I've not tried other makes) to a normal thickness blade without having to touch the mouth. One advantage I find of the Clifton two-piece cap iron is that because the fixed part bolts to the blade, it has the effect of making a quite significant improvement to the ridigity of the blade so would tend to give you some of the benefit of a thicker blade without having to fit one. An important point about the cap iron, of course, is to ensure that there is a good fit between it and the blade and it sometimes helps to polish the top surface with something like Solvol Autosol so that the shavings glide off nicely :wink: 

Paul


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (19 Aug 2006)

I have used the combination of a Smoothcut blade plus Clifton stayset in my Stanley #7 (Type 11) for a few years now. It performs very well. 

The Smoothcut I believe is the same blade as the Samurai.

I am not a fan of the Clifton stayset. I find it too finicky - too many times the bloody toe piece has dropped off when I removed the blade for sharpening. Luckily, I was able to prevent it hitting the floor by catching it on my foot. :shock: I prefer the one piece LN chipbreaker, which is beautifully made.

I did write a review of the LN chipbreaker a few years back, comparing the results with-and without one. It appeared to made a significant difference to the performance and it would be a cheap upgrade, as Alf suggests. I am, nevertheless, sceptical whether a thicker chipbreaker can emulate a thicker blade. A thick blade would still be my preferred choice (however, the mouth of my #7 is too small to fit one, hence the thinner Smoothcut).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## scooby (19 Aug 2006)

Thanks for all the help.

I'm not sure if the samurai iron is thicker than the stock Stanley iron (the Axminster site doesn't give any info on thickness.

Think I'll try for a Samuria iron and a Lie Nielsen chipbreaker. Is it likely these will fit my Bailey 5 1/2 or will I need to file the throat opening?

If so, how hard is it to file the throat? Do I just a normal file for filing metal or is there a better way?

Please keep the advice coming and thanks again


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## Paul Chapman (19 Aug 2006)

scooby":1o5zhk43 said:


> how hard is it to file the throat? Do I just a normal file for filing metal or is there a better way?



I don't know anything about the combination you are going for, but with a bit of luck you won't need to file the mouth. However, if you need to it's not difficult - the metal isn't that hard. Just a normal metalworking file. Take it slowly and keep checking frequently - it's easy to remove the metal but difficult to put it back :wink: 

Paul


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## Frank D. (20 Aug 2006)

scooby":bsqqmsez said:


> Think I'll try for a Samuria iron and a Lie Nielsen chipbreaker. Is it likely these will fit my Bailey 5 1/2 or will I need to file the throat opening?


With the Japanese iron you probably won't have to file the throat, but the screw for the lever cap might not be long enough (because of the thicker chipbreaker). Ask for a longer screw when you buy the chipbreaker. They might not have one (LN gave me one for free, but you might be buying from someone else) and you might not need it, but then again it might save you some hassle if you can pick one up at the same time. 
Just a thought. 
Please let us know how it goes when you've tried out the Samurai blade on some tough woods!


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## MikeW (20 Aug 2006)

The Samurai blades are 2 mm, which is 0.0787, about 5/64. Plenty thin enough for the original chip breaker and or bolt.

As well, I cannot imagine that thin of blade would fill the mouth so much it would need filed.

Strikes me BB has used them or ??? on the forum.

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (20 Aug 2006)

Yeah, BB's your man for these, but being the weekend he'lll probably not pick this up 'til Monday.

Cheers, Alf


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## MIGNAL (20 Aug 2006)

You won't need to file the mouth of the plane. As Mike states the Japanese blade is 2 mm thick which happens to be the same as the Sanley or Record
originals. Personally I'd go with a thicker blade rather than a thicker chip breaker but that's just my opinion, some people even advocate no chipbreaker at all!


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## David C (20 Aug 2006)

Samurai has good hard carbon steel but is thin.

If you can sharpen them, (preferably waterstones), Hock and L-N A2 cryo blades keep you working significantly longer.

They both make 2.4mm replacement blades which are designed to fit, usually without throat filing, or problems of screw or Y lever length. This job is not difficult if you are used to filing, anyway.

Thicker blades, like L-N 3.6 mm may require replacement Y lever.

Hock or L-N A2 with L-N improved chipbreaker, is what we generally fit on my summer, plane and chisel tuning, 5 day short courses. There are some notes on my website, short courses page, with some new short video clips. www.davidcharlesworth.co.uk

David Charlesworth


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## woodbloke (20 Aug 2006)

Paul Chapman wrote:



> it's easy to remove the metal but difficult to put it back



I tried to fit a LN replacement blade to a very old Record T5 jack plane which included some fettling and filing of the mouth. The thickness of the blade and the position of the rectangular hole for the Y lever adjustment meant that the new blade would not, could not ever fit, so I had to revert back to the original skinny Record blade. Problem was that I now had a mouth in the sole of the plane that you could sail the Titanic through :roll: :roll: . Got round it tho' by epoxy gluing a small piece of 'Tufnol' in place and then carefully filing back to the original profile and flushing off the sole, works as good as new now - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (20 Aug 2006)

Neat solution, Rob - doubt if many people would have thought of that :wink: 

Paul


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## scooby (20 Aug 2006)

Out of curiousity is there anywhere else (in the UK) that sells the Japanese laminted irons (in 2 3/8" width)?

To compare prices, etc

thanks

Cracking advice by the way


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## jasonB (20 Aug 2006)

Not sure of the UK but Dickdo them, usually deliver in a few days to the UK.

Jason


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## Colin C (20 Aug 2006)

I think Tilgear do them too but iw ill have a look to make sure


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## jasonB (20 Aug 2006)

Edit - Can't see them in the latest catalogue but they used to do them

Jason


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## bugbear (21 Aug 2006)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> The Smoothcut I believe is the same blade as the Samurai.



Do you mean it's _exactly_ the same, or merely very similar technology from 2 different manufcturers?

I have a "smoothcut", and very good it is too. I think at one point Samurai was a trademark used by Roger Buse, an English tool dealer who was very much at the forefront of introduing Japanese tools to the UK in the early 80's.

BugBear


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 Aug 2006)

> Do you mean it's exactly the same, or merely very similar technology from 2 different manufcturers?



BB

From the dark, dank recesses that constitutes my mind, I have this memory of reading somewhere (this forum perhaps) that they were one and the same blade. Usually my memory is quite good but this is not one of those times that you should use this information as a reference source! :roll: 

Regards from Perth

Definite Derek (...maybe)


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## scooby (21 Aug 2006)

Colin C":gnnx988a said:


> I think Tilgear do them too but iw ill have a look to make sure



do they have a website? I can't seem to find it if they do. Is it case of phone up and ask for a catalogue?

thanks


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## bugbear (21 Aug 2006)

BTW, I think DC's favourite shop "Craftsmans Choice" at http://www.shokunin.co.uk has a "third" brand.

Not "Samurai" (who ever that is/was)

Not "Smoothcut" (which I have)

But "Takumi Okada".

I can't deep link their site, I'm afraid. Look for "kanna ho" in their online shop.

This "may" work:

http://www.shokunin.co.uk/item_details.asp?Stock=SL5804

BugBear (any info, Mr Charlesworth?)


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## scooby (21 Aug 2006)

bugbear":s5mfzuow said:


> BTW, I think DC's favourite shop "Craftsmans Choice" at http://www.shokunin.co.uk has a "third" brand.
> 
> Not "Samurai" (who ever that is/was)
> 
> ...



Found the kanna ho, looks good. 

I like that website  Going to order from there sometime this week. Going to get a 60mm kanna ho plane iron, a 6000g waterstone (probably king) and a nagura.

Think I might order a 24mm Oire Nomi chisel to see what they are like.

Cheers


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## Colin C (21 Aug 2006)

Hi scooby
It looks like Tilgear dont do them any more but you can ring them to make sure and they dont have a web site.
They is No 01707 873434


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## bugbear (21 Aug 2006)

scooby":21a99d5a said:


> http://www.shokunin.co.uk
> 
> I like that website  Going to order from there sometime this week. Going to get a 60mm kanna ho plane iron, a 6000g waterstone (probably king) and a nagura.
> 
> Cheers




60mm is 2 3/8" so that's the blade for #4 1/2, #5 1/2, #6, and #7, yeah?

(50mm "only" fits the ever popular #4 and #5)

BugBear


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## scooby (21 Aug 2006)

bugbear":1jzw2jlh said:


> scooby":1jzw2jlh said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.shokunin.co.uk
> ...



yep, I've got a 5 1/2 which is in dire need of a decent iron


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