# Litchenberg Wood Burning - dangerous



## finneyb (24 Aug 2017)

http://www.henleystandard.co.uk/news/fi ... -told.html

If you don't know what it is - keep it that way its safest
If you are using it - please don't.

Brian


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## Random Orbital Bob (24 Aug 2017)

Rather timely, that technique was shown to me very recently!


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## rafezetter (24 Aug 2017)

I've been considering it for a while, but not keen on electricity stuff and homemade kit is just asking for trouble if you are not a sparky or engineer type.


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## Rorschach (24 Aug 2017)

The key to doing it safely seems to be a long extension cord and a dead mans footswitch.


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## novocaine (24 Aug 2017)

the key to doing it safely is to not do it in the first place. 

but if you must, then use suitable insulation between you, the current and the floor.


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## Racers (24 Aug 2017)

Rorschach":2yz4g7jp said:


> The key to doing it safely seems to be a long extension cord and a dead mans footswitch.




That won't save you, only the people who find your corpse.

Pete


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## Phil Pascoe (24 Aug 2017)

He obviously did something incredibly stupid - from the Youtube coverage I would guess many thousands of people worldwide do it every day - perfectly safely. For one, he was wearing a wedding ring - would you wear a ring when you were that close to the article says 2000v, but from what I've read is 20,000v?


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## Rorschach (24 Aug 2017)

Racers":3pekx347 said:


> Rorschach":3pekx347 said:
> 
> 
> > The key to doing it safely seems to be a long extension cord and a dead mans footswitch.
> ...



Of course it will set up properly. The transformer is on a nice long cable plugged into a socket well away from the bench. A dead man switch is added in line too well away from the transformer. With the transformer unplugged you set up your wood and electrodes. You walk away, plug it and then use the switch to turn it on. When you think you are done or want to inspect you remove your foot from the switch, unplug the transformer and then walk over and check it.
You can of course do it without the deadman switch and just unplug every time, but this way you have 2 levels of power interruption.

The problem is people wanting to be too close to the action or probably doing it in small sheds. Be at least 6 feet away from the set up and make sure the plug is with you and nowhere near the transformer.


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## HappyHacker (24 Aug 2017)

First rule of electrics: Don't work live
Second rule of electrics: Don't work live
If you have the need to work live reread rules one and two.

Some people have to work live but the training they have, the PPE they use and safety measures they take ensure they are safe

While the poor mans death is a tragedy for his family we should make sure it does not happen to us. 

I learnt the effects of high voltages when as a teenager I was trying to repair a TV which in those days had EHT (Extra High Tension) voltages on the cathode ray tube, probably about 3,000 volts. I knew not to touch it but somehow managed to. I woke up (fortunatley) on the floor against a wall on the other side of the room. 

It is not just the effect of the electric shock on the body it can be the effect of falling or tripping as a result of a shock. As Rorschach says it can be done safely and we use lethal levels of electricity every day (240 Volts) but in a correctly managed way with appropriate safety measures in place.


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## NazNomad (24 Aug 2017)

HappyHacker":28976iqd said:


> First rule of electrics: Don't work live
> Second rule of electrics: Don't work live.




Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin' rules :-D


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## novocaine (24 Aug 2017)

those are some big pigeons. 

I repeat
"use suitable insulation between you, the current and the floor." 
40m of air is suitable insulation.


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## Phil Pascoe (24 Aug 2017)

I remember seeing my uncle dancing around the lawn holding the lawnmower lead - it was a dewy morning and he'd wired a flat connector with the pins on the live side.


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## transatlantic (24 Aug 2017)

phil.p":j8xd7u8z said:


> He obviously did something incredibly stupid - from the Youtube coverage I would guess many thousands of people worldwide do it every day - perfectly safely. For one, he was wearing a wedding ring - would you wear a ring when you were that close to the article says 2000v, but from what I've read is 20,000v?



Why would the ring make a difference? (seeing as it would conduct through your skin even without it?)


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## Sheffield Tony (24 Aug 2017)

transatlantic":2mwzm30u said:


> phil.p":2mwzm30u said:
> 
> 
> > He obviously did something incredibly stupid - from the Youtube coverage I would guess many thousands of people worldwide do it every day - perfectly safely. For one, he was wearing a wedding ring - would you wear a ring when you were that close to the article says 2000v, but from what I've read is 20,000v?
> ...



Ring = inadvertent single turn secondary winding for a nearby transformer, shorted out and around a body part.

I'm sure this can be done quite safely, and without being 40m or even 6 feet away from it. Electricity needs a few kV per mm to arc through air - you just need adequate insulation and to be sure you're not touching anything. Or tempted to touch anything, eg catch something if it falls. But yes, if in any doubt at all about it, I'd find another way of decorating your wood !


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## Rorschach (24 Aug 2017)

Sheffield Tony":3tw7lhrj said:


> transatlantic":3tw7lhrj said:
> 
> 
> > phil.p":3tw7lhrj said:
> ...



My view on the distance thing is not the fact I think the arc is going to jump 6 feet. The method used involves laying bare electrodes onto wet wood that is likely on a wet workbench. The chances of an electrode slipping, popping, spitting etc are very high, the wire could melt, the transformer could pop. All sorts of things could go wrong with an unsecured live load like that. I would not want to be close to it at all so that should something slip or move unexpectedly there is plenty of distance between it and me. Our flinch reactions lead us to do all sorts of things that could make us get just that bit too close.


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## transatlantic (24 Aug 2017)

Sheffield Tony":5lbps6vy said:


> transatlantic":5lbps6vy said:
> 
> 
> > phil.p":5lbps6vy said:
> ...



Ah!


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## Racers (24 Aug 2017)

HappyHacker":3jkyckk0 said:


> First rule of electrics: Don't work live
> Second rule of electrics: Don't work live
> If you have the need to work live reread rules one and two.
> 
> ...



Final anode in colour TV 25-30 KV (thousand volts) but at a very limited current makes you jump but a hell of a lot safer then a microwave transformer kicking out a kilowatt or so.

(ex tv engineer)

Pete


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## rafezetter (24 Aug 2017)

Rorschach":pmz44jul said:


> Racers":pmz44jul said:
> 
> 
> > Rorschach":pmz44jul said:
> ...



I'm glad you said that because it confirms what I had thought, or the approach I would have taken - set it up, attach clips, all unpowered and switch it on at the wall or remotely somehow.


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## Rorschach (24 Aug 2017)

rafezetter":hsz09av1 said:


> [
> 
> I'm glad you said that because it confirms what I had thought, or the approach I would have taken - set it up, attach clips, all unpowered and switch it on at the wall or remotely somehow.



It's the safest way to do it. Basically the same way I test motors or other electrical equipment when I often have bare connections twisted together or cases open with live boards etc. Wire it all up, clamp it to the bench and then switch on from the other side of the workshop.


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## thetyreman (24 Aug 2017)

at least he died doing something he loves, there is no better way to die


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## Random Orbital Bob (25 Aug 2017)

Personally....I'll take old age any day!


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## Keith 66 (25 Aug 2017)

I had a look on you tube, hundreds of videos showing how to do it & some dreadful looking set ups. Sorry but playing with home made lash ups & high voltages equals a darwin award.


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## AJB Temple (25 Aug 2017)

I agree ^^ promoting this on you tube etc is very unwise. It does not take much of an oversight or accident to cause death, over something where safe and inexpensive alternatives are available.


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## bugbear (25 Aug 2017)

Funny frequencies and Kv voltages take you to a place where your intuition is useless, and only specific knowledge and/or training will serve.

BugBear


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## morturn (25 Aug 2017)

I have to say that I too find this ‘You Tube’ celebrity culture of dismantling’s like microwave ovens and messing around with uber capacitors a little concerning. 

High voltage electoral work is a highly sophisticated subject that requires a lot of sill and knowledge to avoid serious injury or death. 17 people died in 2015 with 350 serious injuries.

These celebrities on You Tube are these to make money at the expense of making a potently dangerous activity look simple. Just twisting bit of wire, transformers and jump leads together is not a good way to go. Electrical injuries can be incredibly debilitating and life changing.


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## transatlantic (25 Aug 2017)

thetyreman":24uu27hq said:


> at least he died doing something he loves, there is no better way to die



I would have thought it was a pretty painful way to go


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## WoodMangler (25 Aug 2017)

thetyreman":1innk8i8 said:


> at least he died doing something he loves, there is no better way to die


But the thing i love is living...


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## treeturner123 (26 Aug 2017)

Hi

I see that the AWGB have been quick to draw up a document on this. Quite right; in my view, electricity and petrol are two of the most dangerous things for an amateur to mess about with. The main difference is that at least you can smell one of then BEFORE you die rather than AS you die!!

I completely agree with WoodMangler, I prefer living to dying no matter what I am doing when I die!

Phil


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## pollys13 (27 Aug 2017)

Very sad story and a warning to anyone who might be trying the same thing. As I say, so sad only 43 and two young children.
Its the volts that jolts but the mills that kill.


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## rafezetter (27 Aug 2017)

morturn":3a36mtk8 said:


> I have to say that I too find this ‘You Tube’ celebrity culture of dismantling’s like microwave ovens and messing around with uber capacitors a little concerning.
> 
> High voltage electoral work is a highly sophisticated subject that requires a lot of sill and knowledge to avoid serious injury or death. 17 people died in 2015 with 350 serious injuries.
> 
> These celebrities on You Tube are these to make money at the expense of making a potently dangerous activity look simple. Just twisting bit of wire, transformers and jump leads together is not a good way to go. Electrical injuries can be incredibly debilitating and life changing.



To be fair most of the "celebrities" on youtube, the ones with proper channels and such don't do this sort of thing. (although Jimmy D, did cut his pinky off !!) Almost all of the youtube "makers" who've got a large following all stress safety and such. It's the backyard hackers that mostly promote it in ways that are not safe.


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## NazNomad (27 Aug 2017)

WoodMangler":3dwolhye said:


> thetyreman":3dwolhye said:
> 
> 
> > at least he died doing something he loves, there is no better way to die
> ...




Pretty sure that living will get you eventually, if you do it for long enough. :-D


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## Random Orbital Bob (28 Aug 2017)

NazNomad":1y6ic5se said:


> WoodMangler":1y6ic5se said:
> 
> 
> > thetyreman":1y6ic5se said:
> ...



I'm really not sure what's being advocated here? Are we saying it's OK to simply "die" if you're indulging yourself in a hobby you love, but that because information is available that allows you to do that with pretty much Neanderthal irreverence towards intelligent understanding of the risks....then just "go ahead anyway"?

I'm flabbergasted by the way in which this event gets treated in the minds of some. The bottom line here (for me) is that some hapless fool has gone on to Youtube and discovered a technique for creating "pretty" patterns in wood and it's cost his life and probably the psychological balance of his children and possibly his wife and we have the staggering ignorance to label that as "he was doing something he loves". As if the consequences of his actions have no meaning or significance!

Just for the record to all people who still hold some semblance of rationality and respect for other human beings and life itself......this story is tragic beyond words. The depth to which this man made folly is so unfathomable that I don't even know where to begin. The predicament in which his children remain will doubtless be trauma of unimaginable proportions and to make it the subject of humour is to demonstrate a sensitivity bypass that leaves me circling back to the comments about this forum dumming down to populist culture. 

So for future readers of this thread...what the intelligent amongst you might wish to take away......just don't try this technique. Don't consult a qualified electrician and then try it either, they're not trained in converting Microwave oven electrical motors to make "lightning" jump across pieces of wood soaked in electrical conductors! If you try this technique then be fully cognisant of the fact that you have failed (miserably) to show any respect whatsoever for both yourself and your loved ones but are too arrogant or too stupid to realise it!


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## NazNomad (28 Aug 2017)

I was merely stating that if you live long enough, you'll eventually die.

Nothing to do with Darwin and his award winning advocates.


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## WoodMangler (28 Aug 2017)

NazNomad":39r86f39 said:


> I was merely stating that if you live long enough, you'll eventually die. Nothing to do with Darwin and his award winning advocates.


Life is a sexually-transmitted disease which is invariably fatal...


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## monkeybiter (28 Aug 2017)

WoodMangler":1e6b8sir said:


> NazNomad":1e6b8sir said:
> 
> 
> > I was merely stating that if you live long enough, you'll eventually die. Nothing to do with Darwin and his award winning advocates.
> ...



Thankfully.


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## stuartpaul (28 Aug 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":16qu8rrf said:


> ..... Just for the record to all people who still hold some semblance of rationality and respect for other human beings and life itself......this story is tragic beyond words. The depth to which this man made folly is so unfathomable that I don't even know where to begin. The predicament in which his children remain will doubtless be trauma of unimaginable proportions and to make it the subject of humour is to demonstrate a sensitivity bypass that leaves me circling back to the comments about this forum dumming down to populist culture......


Whilst it is without doubt a tragedy for wife/children I think you'll find there are a number of people who will find humour in almost anything (me amongst them). This stems (mostly) from our own life experiences and has nothing at all to do with a sensitivity bypass.


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## NazNomad (28 Aug 2017)

stuartpaul":1sl2uhfn said:


> ... there are a number of people who will find humour in almost anything (me amongst them).




... and me.

Plus I have a total lack of empathy for complete strangers with no brain cells.


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## RogerS (28 Aug 2017)

Would I be safe if I used push-sticks ? :wink:


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## RobinBHM (28 Aug 2017)

RogerS":2ig4m7vd said:


> Would I be safe if I used push-sticks ?



It depends, are they finished with linseed paint?


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## Jonzjob (28 Aug 2017)

I'm sure this can be done quite safely, and without being 40m or even 6 feet away from it. Electricity needs a few kV per mm to arc through air - you just need adequate insulation and to be sure you're not touching anything. Or tempted to touch anything, eg catch something if it falls. But yes, if in any doubt at all about it, I'd find another way of decorating your wood ![/quote]

Ah![/quote]

I haven't been bothered to read all of this thread. It's too late in the eve for that, but I am quite happy to stick with my wood burning and the patterns that result. But then my pyrography pen only needs 2 volts! Not too death defying.

That's got to come under the same heading as a forum friend who decided that it would be interesiting to try using his chain saw with the lathe to do some turning. I warned him that it was a real . idea, but he went ahead and frightened the hell out of himself! He only tried it once.


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## Keith 66 (2 Feb 2018)

A couple of days ago i actually saw a post on a facebook forum from a D&T teacher asking if anyone had advice on how to do this in a school! I would not want someone like that teaching my kids.


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## Jonzjob (2 Feb 2018)

That should help to keep the population down :shock: :shock: :shock:


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