# natural food/drink safe finish



## Calgach (6 Dec 2012)

hello everyone. i'm sort of new to this forum although i'v been hanging round in the background for a while reading some of the threads. I'm fairly new to turning too (almost a year) so I appreciate the tips from the more experienced here!

Anyway what i want to ask it whats the best finish for drinking goblets? I'v made a few -not incredibly decorative but funtional-i could put up pictures when i get the hang of this. I finished them with beeswax and they held the wine ok without staining the wood, but seems to have wiped off almost completely when I cleaned it with a damp sponge!

I know epoxy and polyurethane are recommended but I was wondering about more traditional methods..e.g oils ?
Any suggestions or advice greatly appreciated!

ÁD


----------



## Bodrighy (6 Dec 2012)

I do a lot of these and have sold them with no bad feedback. I use melamine spray, as many coats as possible usually about 8 - 10 leaving to dry in between. If the goblets are used for red wine it will still stain mind whatever you use, best known dye to mankind LOL. Traditionally beeswax was used in 'olden days' but it wears off quickly and needs to be replaced and isn't something most people keep handy.

Pete


----------



## Sheffield Tony (6 Dec 2012)

I've just started having a go at turning the odd goblet - but by pole lathe (see avatar ,,,)

The method I used was beeswax. First oil the goblet with a suitable oil (walnut/tung/linseed ...) and when fully absorbed, drop a small lump of beeswax in the goblet, heat to melt with a hot air gun, swirl around, then wipe off the surplus.

Mind you, I have only tried this once, and tested it with water which it seemed to hold OK. I would have thought that the melting and soaking into the wood would make it unlikely to wash off ?


----------



## CHJ (6 Dec 2012)

Sheffield Tony":3lqug5j6 said:


> ...... First oil the goblet with a suitable oil (walnut/tung/linseed ...)



Be vary careful in which oils you use for anything to contain consumable food/drink. Nut oils can cause severe reaction in some people. 

We have a a little girl in the family group who can't even be allowed to walk round a supermarket un-accompanied in case she touches packaging etc. let alone the contents; and as a four year old constantly carries an EpiPen to to enable her to treat herself if playing with friends away from home.

For seasoning a rustic cup or goblet then a search on the art of traditional "Kuksa" seasoning should provide enough material for a winters worth of reading.


----------



## Sheffield Tony (6 Dec 2012)

Ah yes, good point. And a bit of a problem. The "food grade" oils like the chestnut one that are liquid parafin based don't dry, but soak in leaving a lacklustre finish. Tung and walnut have allergy issues, linseed tends to turn things rather yellow. We don't have any nut allergies in our family, so I tend to forget. but it must be a concern if you're making things for others and especially stuff for sale.


----------



## Calgach (6 Dec 2012)

thanks for all the replies, very helpful!

I thought I read somewhere that danish/tung/walnut oil dry and cure and are good for salad bowls etc. so I was wondering about that method. i didn't even consider nut allergies as, like tony said, there is no such issue in my family-thanks for the reminder.

Melamine sounds like the solution.
Although being a sceptic about chemicals I'll try a bit of research on the kuksa first. Thanks everyone

Go raibh maith agaibh,

ÁD


----------



## CHJ (6 Dec 2012)

I just use liquid paraffin on bowls and platters and to maintain wood "nature" whenever the swilling process dries them out too much, most salad stains fade in time and use.

For items wanted with a more robust surface protection I do the same as Pete and use the melamine lacquer but most folks that are into using wooden vessels accept there will be some wine or spirit staining.

Whatever you do don't use detergents in the swilling water.


----------



## AndyT (6 Dec 2012)

I recently bought some Liberon brand pure tung oil. On the can it says that it is ideal for use with surfaces in contact with food, such as salad bowls, and that it's certified for use on toys. But it does also say that, being extracted from nuts, it can cause an allergic reaction. 

Coping with someone who has allergic reactions to nuts and nut products must be a nightmare.


----------



## nev (6 Dec 2012)

havent tried this but it looks interesting, soaking in mineral oil ... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 892&type=1

Hopefully the link works, if not check out ian jeffcock woodturner on facepants
http://www.facebook.com/ianjeffcockwoodturner


----------



## dickm (7 Dec 2012)

Don't know if an equivalent is available in the UK, but some stuff that seems to work quite well is Wood Care by Idaho Woodworks in the US. It says it's a "blend of high grade mineral oil and paraffin wax". It seems to absorb into the surface over a day or so and then tolerates washing with lukewarm water. Given the ingredients, it should certainly be allergen free.


----------



## Calgach (9 Dec 2012)

Dia daoibh,

Thanks for all the replies.
looking out for liquid paraffin now, shouldn't be that hard to find hopefully.

One last question; does anyone know if liquid paraffin (and possibly a beeswax finish) would be ok with whiskey?
So far I'v only heard of people discussing wine goblets so just wondering if strong alcohol would react with the coating.

Again thanks for all the advice!

ÁD


----------



## boysie39 (9 Dec 2012)

I always used Liquid Paraffin on everything that was meant to hold food or drink . I believe that a lot of the turners over here are using Woodoc now. I have seen it on some bowls and it does leave a super finish. 

Slan Leat.


----------



## dickm (9 Dec 2012)

Would suspect that any strong solution of ethanol in water(!) would probably dissove an uncured hydrocarbon finish like wax+mineral oil, but no real idea.

Just thinking aloud about the Idaho woodworks stuff mentioned above, would it be much the same to warm some liquid paraffin and dissolve flakes of white (or even decorative coloured) candle shavings in it? Much the same as classic beeswax and turpentine polish?


----------



## Weasel Howlett (10 Dec 2012)

Calgach":25y1m0dn said:


> One last question; does anyone know if liquid paraffin (and possibly a beeswax finish) would be ok with whiskey?
> So far I'v only heard of people discussing wine goblets so just wondering if strong alcohol would react with the coating.
> 
> Again thanks for all the advice!
> ...



I have recently been testing beeswax with rum and can give it the thumbs up. I put on quite a heafty coat of bees wax by melting in a small pan, swilling round and pouring out. I need to refine the process so i get a less thick layer of wax but after leaving the rum in it for an hour or so it was still unchanged.


----------



## dickm (10 Dec 2012)

... but how did the rum taste??


----------



## János (11 Dec 2012)

Hello,

Cured films of drying oils are not a real hazard for allergenic reactions. The high level of unsaturated fatty acids in these oils makes them a source of contact allergies of skin in workers, but allergic reactions to fully cured films are quite unusual, as the cured film is chemically passive and stable. A very wide array of industrial coatings and paints are based on drying oils, from spar varnish to alkyd paints... Licking Hammerite does not induce nut allergies.... :wink: 

Ethanol (and methanol, and butilalcohol) is not an effective solvent for paraffin.

Have a nice day,

János


----------



## Weasel Howlett (11 Dec 2012)

dickm":2s6a6ugx said:


> ... but how did the rum taste??



Bloomin great


----------



## Calgach (11 Dec 2012)

thanks János.
suppose that makes walnut n tung oil possibilities again.

weasel; i obviously didn't heat the wax properly then because it hardened nearly as soon as it hit the wood.
Have you any method of keeping it heated in the cup to allow more time to soak in properly? i was afraid of heating the wood too much incase it split!

boysie; any idea where best to get the woodoc (if all else fails) ? internet doesn't seem to tell a while lot about it, and I'm in Doire-Níl mórán rudaí ar fáil anseo!

There's the picture anyway (if it worked) with the beeswax wiped off :| 
very basic i know, but its just the first, hopefully they'll improve!

Go raibh maith agaibh,

ÁD


----------



## Sheffield Tony (12 Dec 2012)

Calgach":1sv3a1ck said:


> ti obviously didn't heat the wax properly then because it hardened nearly as soon as it hit the wood.
> Have you any method of keeping it heated in the cup to allow more time to soak in properly? i was afraid of heating the wood too much incase it split!



I put a lump of soild beeswax in the goblet, then melted it with a hot air gun. It soaked in rather well, I thought, and the goblet (made of cherry about 4mm thick, turned still rather green on the pole lathe and left to dry for a few days) did not crack. But maybe Iwas just lucky ...

Nice cup, BTW. If that is basic, I don't know what you'd call mine - "Rustic" perhaps.


----------



## Calgach (13 Dec 2012)

Thanks Tony. I somehow missed the details in your first post-ill definately try that. if any are to be made for Christmas the other finishes mightn't have enough time to cure.

Thanks everyone for the tips. Plenty of options for future work


----------



## boysie39 (14 Dec 2012)

If you Google Woodoc you will get some info on where you can buy in IRL. At one time some turners I know were using Woodoc 10 but I think most if not all have changed to 20.


----------



## EnErY (14 Dec 2012)

Teak oil or danish oil i use as Food safe its a Good method and When dry Is very safe indeed
Regards
bill


----------



## Calgach (23 Dec 2012)

just a quick update (old topic i know)

done 2 goblets/whisky cups out of wych elm.
went with tony's method with beeswax and seems to have gone well though haven't tested them yet
the outside is done with acrylic sanding sealer and woodwax22

Ádh-mór, appreciate all the input! 
ÁD


----------

