# so what am i doing wrong??



## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

hi guys
first time tonight to get to grips with th hegner, i have removed the lower clamp cover for ease of use but fitting a blade into the clamp is for me a nightmare, i cant seem to get the blade straight and the screw only fit in one way (is that right). I took out the clamp that came fitted with the blade and looked at it to see if i could match it, but the blade either moves off centre or if i put the screw in from the other side it just bends the blade, i cant believe £800 of scrollsaw and it has dung clamps like this (just ranting)..

your help would be apprciated..

thank you


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## martinka (30 Oct 2013)

Steve, I slide the blade in until it hits the screw, then pull it back about 1mm, otherwise the screw catches it and tries to turn it. Getting and keeping the blade central is, as you say, a pain, but you very soon get used to it. Putting the screw in from the left will try to force the blade through the hole at the right, hence the bending. Check the end of the screw and make sure it's flat with no burrs on the end. I agree that the clamps are pants on such an expensive saw, but once you get used to it, they work well enough. I'm sure that in a day or three, you'll wonder what the fuss was about. Well, if you can get over the fact that the clamps have limitations.

If the blade isn't central, the end of the blade will bend sideways and eventually break, so it's fairly critical that you get it right. I reckon the clamp ought to be like the Diamond ones with a hole down the middle of the clamp. You can't go wrong with them, though I'll do my best to prove that's a lie. I don't know if it says anything in the UK manual, but I read in the USA manual that you tighten the screw until it touches the blade, then about another 12th of a turn. Seems to work OK for me.
Martin.


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## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

i'll try that martin, thank you, by the way, how far do you put the blade in past the hole, as it were..


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## mac1012 (30 Oct 2013)

hi steve I am trying to visualise what you mean are you trying to clamp a blade in while the bottom blade clamp is in position on the machne ? there is a little moulding to the right of the table top that is shaped like a clamp you positon the blade clamp in there to and put the blade in and tighten up then transfer over to to the saw arm under the spring , the clamp screw faces outwards I can change a complete blade in less than a minute but I do use the quick relase top clamp for all my cutting so the top one never comes out I just flick the tension lever undo the knurled knob to release top of blade then take out bottom clamp with blade still in and place in the clamp jig then undo put new blade in there is a little blade diagram to ensure you got correct way on the jig, tighten up place back in bottom arm tighten top clamp re tension and away you go 

mark


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## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

right then thats that sorted (hopefully), it seemed to work anyway, now the next question is , does the top quick clamp screw hold the blade in, or should the gap in the clamp hold it in as the bottom one does..


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## martinka (30 Oct 2013)

Steve, in the top clamp, the blade is clamped between the two screws. I set the blade so that the end is just above the hole, though the actual amount doesn't really matter. The screw that you tighten with the clock key has a rotating piece on the inner end which bears on the blade, and, depending who you listen to, allows tightening without the blade turning, or allows the blade to swivel whilst cutting. I think it's both, but I always was awkward.  The small Allen screw in the left side should never need to be touched.
Martin.


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## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

thank for that..
Question 3, why doesn't the blower blow, there is actually NO air at all coming down the pipe and when i try cutting i have to keep blowing away the sawdust by mouth.
I know folks will say change it to suction, but it still doesn't answer the question..


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## mac1012 (30 Oct 2013)

the quick clamp is far easier and quicker you just put the blade in up to the stop and tighten make sure it is held in place by the top screw tighten it down onto top of the quick release clamp 

is the dust blower tube connected to the bellows at the back of machine ? make sure it pushed right in you should have a good flow of air to blow it away otherwise something not connected right


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## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

Perfect mark, thank you.. just need to cut the pipe a little shorter now, as there is miles of it..


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## Chippygeoff (30 Oct 2013)

Steve. I endorse everything that has been said. The Hegner is unlike any other saw and as a result it will take some getting used to but once mastered it is a joy to use. You will get used to slotting the lower clamp in at the cporrect angle without even thinking about it. There is a hole in the bellows at the back and at the very bottom, the hose should just slide in without any problems and once working is quite efficient. When you have finished sawing for the day release the tension lever and unclamp the blade. If you remove the quick clamp knob be careful as there is a little silver insert that clamps onto the blade when you tighten the chrome knob. Finally, on the very top there is a knurled black knob. This tightens down onto the clamp, screw this down till it is fairly tight and then undo it between a 1/4 and a half turn, you want the clamp just to have a little movement and then it is just right and you are ready to go.


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## stevebuk (30 Oct 2013)

Thanks guys, i am hopefully getting there slow but sure, just had dinner and i'm going out to the cabin to sort out my lights for it and have a small go at cutting out a pattern, wish me luck..


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## scrimper (30 Oct 2013)

The questions are all answered now but just to say that my blower pipe kept coming adrift from the bellows at regular annoying intervals, I solved it by simply wrapping a little insulating tape around the pipe for a tighter fit, it has not detached since.


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## ChrisR (30 Oct 2013)

Steve.

I think I may be the only one, but I never use the quick top clamp when cutting out side cuts, I use two standard clamps as advised by Hegner. The top quick clamp does not allow any movement as it is held tight by the top arm locking screw, if you try and use this clamp with the top arm screw backed off, as you do with the standard clamp it will be at the wrong angle. The quick clamp is only intended for inside cuts and is a slight compromise of the blade action, as it is held tight by the top arm screw.

You have paid a lot of money, for a top of the range saw, a proportion of that cost is for Hegners, research and development cost, so why would you not use as Hegner intended.

When I purchased my Hegner saw many moons ago, I think it came with four standard clamps and one quick clamp, but when purchasing blades I used to include a couple of standard clamps with the order, which means I have approx eight or ten standard clamps.
Now before I start cutting a project and it is one that is going to need more than one blade, I make up three or four blades of required size/type with clamps on, then when the blade edge goes or it breaks, I can slip the one blade out and a new one in, within a few seconds, not loosing momentum or concentration. 

A tip I posted on this forum a while ago, was that I have painted a number of my standard clamps bright yellow, these are then used as the bottom clamp, then when a blade breaks and the clamp flips onto the floor, it is easy to locate.

Take care and enjoy the Hegner, you will soon be fitting blades without looking at the bottom clamp arm/holder.

Chris R.


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## martinka (30 Oct 2013)

ChrisR":1nkg77fe said:


> A tip I posted on this forum a while ago, was that I have painted a number of my standard clamps bright yellow, these are then used as the bottom clamp, then when a blade breaks and the clamp flips onto the floor, it is easy to locate.
> 
> Chris R.



I made a tray from 3mm ply to fit across the width of the saw, below the blade, to catch sawdust and it does a great job, nothing gets on the floor. An added bonus is that it catches the clamp if it drops out when a blade breaks.

Martin.


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## scrimper (30 Oct 2013)

ChrisR":12sfas42 said:


> A tip I posted on this forum a while ago, was that I have painted a number of my standard clamps bright yellow, these are then used as the bottom clamp, then when a blade breaks and the clamp flips onto the floor, it is easy to locate.



Actually that is a very good idea, It's always difficult finding them they seem to manage to flip to the most awkward of places!


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## mac1012 (31 Oct 2013)

I guess I will chuck my methods into the ring !!

as I said earlier I use the quick release clamp all the time a lot of my work is external cuts but you should have it tightened with the top screw as the manual says this promotes quicker blade changing 

it has been screwed in that position for the last two years only ever moved for cleaning , I am still using the same clamps the machine came with and I have a spare one that came with the machine , I never change clamps for different blade sizes I use mainly 3 through to 9 I couldn't even tell you what the clamp size is (hammer) I have also on occasion used a number 1 size in the same clamps

works fine for me I can change the blade completely in around 40 secs ( I timed it last night )

I have had one blade breakage in the last two years and that was because I over tightened it :shock: 

I don't understand the physics of it but I would have thought the blade and clamps is under more load in an internal cut rather than an external cut where the wood can fall away , so I don't see how using the fixed clamp on external cuts is any detriment to the machine or the rigid quick release clamp , I also read somewhere that the quick release clamp has a bearing in it or something to allow to have it in a fixed position.

I think hegners philosophy is its quicker blade changing when doing fretwork and if your some one who fretwork is almost all internal like portraits etc then you would be using the quick release clamp all the time anyway. 

so I just use it all the time but for external cuts 8) I just find it easier and quicker to use , I just change the blade when its worn I don't use different size blades for one piece of work so its a matter of cut , quick change, carry on cutting  

I make a lot of products to sell so this method I can just crack on with it , I am in the middle of cutting twenty reindeer for some one and someone asked me yesterday to make them three angels and have just finished some wholesale work where the person provides me the wood and pays me by the hour so this works best for me.

if I had to take more time using the standard clamp on the top to change the blade I may price myself out of work  

but you must make sure the top clamp is secure as advised in the manual otherwise it defeats the object of a quick change. 

mark


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## boysie39 (31 Oct 2013)

Steve , delighted your saw has arrived at last and you are getting to grips with it . You on many occasions have advised new members that this site is the best place to have problems sorted . Never thought i would ever see you having to use it for that purpose . :lol: It also shows the character of the man who is not too proud to ask for help if he needs it . =D> =D> .
Looking forward to seeing your first piece Steve . You have have probably helped more people by asking these questions than you will ever know ,maybe others who are lurking afraid to ask questions will take heart from this post .

Best of luck .


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## Bryan Bennett (31 Oct 2013)

Steve hope you get it sorted QUICK it will be worth it.


Bryan


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## ChrisR (31 Oct 2013)

Mark.

Blade change in 40sec’s, by using the correct fixed clamps for outside cutting, I can change a blade in less than 5 sec’s.

The quick change blade clamp does not have a bearing to let the blade move/rock, it just has a pivot at the end of the tightening screw to stop twisting the blade when tightening the screw onto the blade. The other side is held by the fixed grub screw, so no bearings. 
This is not a problem when tightening the fixed/standard clamps as the blade is held by the clamp slot being compressed onto the blade by the machine screw which is not in contact with the blade when tightening.

But if you are happy with your method then that’s fine.

I prefer to use the saw and blade clamps as Hegner intended, and will always advise on this correct method when posting.

As I said in my previous post, we have all paid for Hegners research and development within the cost of our saws, so why would anybody use the saw/blade clamp arrangement other than instructed by Hegner :?: .

Take care.

Chris R.


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## mac1012 (31 Oct 2013)

I don't think it makes much difference chris that's in my opinion never had no problems and it would be too much of a faff for me to be changing from one to the other as I said the effect on the blade is no different 
maybe its hegners way of getting people to buy lots of clamps

5 seconds ? do you mean having a blade clamped in two clamps ready to change over ? or do you mean releasing the tension turning the top screw down onto the top blade clamp to hold it in postion while you undo it and release the blade then taking the bottom clamp out with the blade in and putting it in the jig and undoing the clamp and taking the blade out and putting a new blade in (getting it out of a packet ) tightening it then putting back and then positioning it into the top clamp and the blade and then undoing the top screw a little way then setting the tension in five seconds ? if you do, can you post a video please I would like to see it :lol:


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## mac1012 (31 Oct 2013)

http://www.hegner.co.uk/Quick-Clamp-for-Piercework


info on quick clamp two points one it says *especially* useful for internal cuts but dosent say anywhere advising not to use for external ones also bit lower down page it says .........


"However the Quick Clamp should be rigidly fixed in the top arm – there are* rotating bearing surfaces *within the quick clamp which allow the blade to pivot, maintaining the correct geometry, while being securely held. "

mark


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## mac1012 (31 Oct 2013)

this nice lady here is using the quick release clamp for external cuts and if its good enough for her its good enough for me 8) 

http://www.scrollsawer.com/techniques/m ... ntrol.html

have a look through all the pics some good tips scroll down her page and you will see a series of different cutting technique photos all done with the hegner quick clamp in situ internal and external, I hope to some people apart from chris maybe, that some of my advice on the quick clamp is not some wild and reckless descision to wreck my machine (homer) 

I think the single clamp small sizes could be useful for very small blades less than a standard number 1 but I never gone that low

mark


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## scrimper (31 Oct 2013)

mac1012":jqgpvi0i said:


> http://www.hegner.co.uk/Quick-Clamp-for-Piercework
> 
> 
> info on quick clamp two points one it says *especially* useful for internal cuts but dosent say anywhere advising not to use for external ones also bit lower down page it says .........
> ...



Except on earlier versions such as mine which are *not* equipped with the "rotating bearing" surfaces!

FWIW I have never used anything other than the quick/pierce clamp when using my Hegner. Because mine is not equipped with the rotating bits what I do is tighten it in the frame then loosen the top knurled knob just a little to allow a small amount of pivoting.


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## stevebuk (31 Oct 2013)

Does that mean that if the blade pivots, there is forward/backward motion on the arm. If so i wonder why people a few years ago didn't like the Delta, claiming it was too aggressive..


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## ChrisR (1 Nov 2013)

mac1012":3agsotfu said:


> http://www.hegner.co.uk/Quick-Clamp-for-Piercework
> 
> 
> info on quick clamp two points one it says *especially* useful for internal cuts but dosent say anywhere advising not to use for external ones also bit lower down page it says .........
> ...



Mark.

Below is a paragraph extracted from my other post.

“Now before I start cutting a project and it is one that is going to need more than one blade, I make up three or four blades of required size/type with clamps on, then when the blade edge goes or it breaks, I can slip the one blade out and a new one in, within a few seconds, not loosing momentum or concentration“. 


So the 5sec’s or so, is release tension, remove blunt blade, fit replacement blade, which has already had standard clamps fitted, re-tension.

A quote from your post.
"However the Quick Clamp should be rigidly fixed in the top arm – there are rotating bearing surfaces within the quick clamp which allow the blade to pivot, maintaining the correct geometry, while being securely held. "

Unless Hegner has brought out a new quick clamp, it does not have rotating bearing surfaces, it just has a rotation pad on the end of the tightening screw, to stop the blade being twisted when tightening onto the blade. The blade is then held stationary within the clamp.

I prefer to use the saw and blade clamps as Hegner intended, and will always advise on this correct method when posting, to do other only causes unnecessary confusion.

However each to their own, to use the saw in the way that suites them, but I will stick to the correct Hegner operation.

Take care.

Chris R.


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## scrimper (1 Nov 2013)

ChrisR":3tu84kdv said:


> Unless Hegner has brought out a new quick clamp, it does not have rotating bearing surfaces, it just has a rotation pad on the end of the tightening screw, to stop the blade being twisted when tightening onto the blade. The blade is then held stationary within the clamp.
> 
> 
> Chris R.



As I posted earlier mine does not even have that, mine is just a threaded bolt. 
An image of the rotation pad as mentioned is discussed in this thread have-i-been-doing-it-wrong-t73070.html where Martin has placed a picture of said device.


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## mac1012 (1 Nov 2013)

Chris not sure if you missed it or don't really want to see it but the quote was from the hegner website and I posted the link to the quote but in case you missed it I will post it here .......



http://www.hegner.co.uk/Quick-Clamp-for-Piercework

you can clearly see the quote on this page so in answer to your question is yes the clamp has rotating bearing I like to make sure the information I give people is correct as far as I see it , 

there seem to be a debate as to whether the older models had it ill give you that but I am just advising on my own experience maybe if someone has a quick clamp from 20 or thirty years ago its time for a new one

I emailed hegner yesterday and the tech guy replied to me this morning to say and I quote "lots of hegner owners have the quick clamp in position all of the time and this is no detriment to the cutting action or the machine 

he did go on to say that the rotating bearing could wear out if you were using it for extensive amounts of cutting so it is advisable to check it periodically and replace if necessary 

nowhere in the manual does it advise not to use the quick clamp for external cuts or that it is any detriment to the machine 

the advise I give on here is measured and based on my experience as a hegner user , there is no evidence at all to suggest you cant use the quick clamp for external cuts and I am sure lots of experienced hegners owners do the same as testified by the hegner technician

I guess it comes down to personal preference, as for your 5 second blade changing the other 35 seconds have been spent at some other time getting the blade ready prepared in the two clamps, my post of 40 seconds was to do a complete change whilst at the machine and as I explained I don't use different size blades on one project so there is no need for me to have extra clamps with blades in position ready to change over so your 5 secs over my 40 was inaccurate

I don't have to spend time getting blades ready in different sets of clamps so whilst you are doing that I have already started cutting so your argument about flowing better dosent really stack up 

anyway you say tomatoe I say tomato lets call the whole thing off as the song goes 8) 

mark 
,


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## stevebuk (1 Nov 2013)

While at the moment i am only using the #7 ultra reverse blade i am doing what mark does and change the blade completely from start to finish whilst at the saw, but i am thinking of making up 3/4 of these blade clamps with the #7 already in so changing would be quicker than my normal way, i could put the blades in at the end of the day when i have finished cutting in readiness for the coming day..

Simples..


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## scrimper (1 Nov 2013)

mac1012":2ugzpc0l said:


> you can clearly see the quote on this page so in answer to your question is yes the clamp has rotating bearings so your original post to say I was wrong and it dosent contain them is very misleading and incorrect to any hegner owners on here , I like to make sure the information I give people is correct so I suggest you do your homework the next time you give advice and not just assume the advice I have given is wrong.
> 
> I do take exception to you suggesting that what I have given is incorrect in regards to the bearings
> mark
> ,



Mark, I obviously can't speak for Chris but in fairness to him I did not read his post as 'suggesting' you are incorrect or anything. AFAIK Chris was/is an engineer and he was suggesting that although Hegner say the clamp has 'Rotating bearings' it is actually technically not the case, it's just a hole in the end of a bolt with an insert that can rotate? But I could be wrong? I honestly don't think he was questioning your advice.


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## scrimper (1 Nov 2013)

stevebuk":cznt66cg said:


> While at the moment i am only using the #7 ultra reverse blade i am doing what mark does and change the blade completely from start to finish whilst at the saw, but i am thinking of making up 3/4 of these blade clamps with the #7 already in so changing would be quicker than my normal way, i could put the blades in at the end of the day when i have finished cutting in readiness for the coming day..
> 
> Simples..



I normally have three blades fitted with bottom clamps fitted ready to go so to speak, normally a no1 for fine internal stuff no 3 or 5 for less fiddly internals and a no 7 or 9 for outside work, using the quick clamp it takes just a sec to change or insert the blade through a drilled hole, one can almost do it with eyes closed. 

I do sometimes use a 00 blade for very fine work but they don't last long before I snap them!


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## mac1012 (1 Nov 2013)

thanks scrimper I realised that I was being a bit defensive so I edited my post before anyone saw it or so I thought (you must have been quick) so apologies to chris for that but thanks for using that bit of my post you seized on I hope its not in an attempt to pour petrol on a dying ember :twisted: 

I can only go on what I see on the website which says rotating bearings my original posts were not to get into an argument but merely passing on my experiences with the hegner and how I use it , which in my opinion is ok to use the way I use it

when I first got the clamp I read what it said about having the bearing so the blade can pivot and the advise to clamp it down 

so that's how ive used it along with countless others 

anyway I not going to write anymore on the subject people can choose what they want to do with their clamps whichever they maybe 

I still stand by I not doing anything wrong or detrimental to my machine using the quick release clamp for external cuts.


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## scrimper (1 Nov 2013)

mac1012":2ve8mj5b said:


> thanks scrimper I realised that I was being a bit defensive so I edited my post before anyone saw it or so I thought (you must have been quick) so apologies to chris for that but thanks for using that bit of my post you seized on I hope its not in an attempt to pour petrol on a dying ember :twisted:



No I was not *pouring petrol* on! My post was meant to indicate quite the opposite, in fact I was (perhaps unwisely) trying to defuse the situation and cool an issue, with hindsight I should have kept my nose out but hindsight is a wonderful thing, I imagine I have been added to your Foes list now so you won't see this post! 

As for using a piece of your post to quote rather than the whole of your post; that was not something I do that was unique to your post I actually do it all the time in most posts where I quote just the relevant part, it saves the reader having to work out which bit of a post I am referring to, afraid it's a habit I picked up years ago when posting stuff on usenet.

If my post caused any offence to anyone then I apologise.


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## martinka (1 Nov 2013)

scrimper":ko1nyw7x said:


> afraid it's a habit I picked up years ago when posting stuff on usenet.



A fellow usenetizen! We are a dying breed, scrimper, but so is usenet, apart from pirated stuff, porn and viruses/trojans.


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## scrimper (1 Nov 2013)

Well there you go, I thought that most on here would not know what Usenet was all about, shows how wrong I was! 

I used to like Usenet very much and spent at least half of my time on-line in various groups, I learnt a great deal and hopefully in return helped others, I must admit that I haven't used Usenet for sometime, it' was good on dial-up being text based. I feel that places like facebook and twitter have largely killed Usenet off. I have to say that I don't use either Facebook or twitter as I find most of the stuff written by 'twitters' mostly puerile pointless nonsense! I did create a twitter account as my cycling club started on there but I found it just drivel and packed it in! :shock:


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