# Baby Wadkin Bursgreen in California: Advice on an AGS10



## KT_NorCal (22 Nov 2018)

Hi All,
I'm from over in the States and this is my first post here although I've been reading through some old threads plus using the search function for several weeks trying to gather as much background info as possible on an AGS10 I recently purchased as well as a WB BER2 I picked up several months ago. 

The AGS I just picked up is a 79 that was purchased new out here in California. I'm the second owner which I think is cool. The previous owner was a private business that made lighting fixtures from California Redwood and this was just one of several Wadkin Bursgreen saws they had bought. One of the other ones is a crazy scary looking gang-rip saw (or "multi-rip" BSW I think it was called) with seven or eight very large blades on it... and a 40HP electric motor... this AGS was at the other end of the scale!

I have been on the lookout for a BGS 10 or maybe 12 for a while, but suspect they were never imported to the States and had basically given up hope of finding one when this popped up, so I grabbed it as a consolation prize. It seems to be a fantastic saw. Went and picked it up the same day the fires started here in Northern California with all the extreme winds, so towing it back home was an interesting experience. It is relatively complete with only a few bits missing.. one of which is the dust extraction hood which the PO thinks he might have been guilty of tossing as they closed the business given its rather strange non-dust hood shape. It has sat for many years essentially unused, so will need to be taken apart cleaned and put back together again. Did some light cleaning of the top as it was covered in a thin coat of "barn rust" from sitting around for so long, but that is it so far.

Only thing that definitely is wrong (as far as I can tell) is that the 10" blades don't fully retract as it is currently, but I think I see two set/limit screws on the trunnion that might be the guilty parties. Also there is an extreme amount of lash on the raise/lower gear/handle, so will need to figure that out too. The arbor nut also has gone on a walk-about, which is a bummer, since I'm rather sure the arbor is a 5/8" BSW left hand thread... which means I will definitely not be picking one up somewhere locally. The upside is that I apparently have the rather rare dado arbor nut, because that is what seems to be clamping in the blade that was on the saw.

Biggest bummer is that I had thought all WBs after an early 70s date came with riving knives... turns out at least the US market ones all came with a "US spec" blade guard that made riving knives unusable (fantastic safety logic, that), so this one has what is really a splitter... which bums me out significantly. I'm hoping some members here who have one of these can tell if it is something that can be retrofitted as it looks like the trunnion has all the appropriate holes to use a riving knife, it just doesn't have one.

First couple of surprising observations after spending only an hour or two with it... It was almost comically heavy for a 10" table saw... I have a Unisaw and I swear it feels close to double the weight. If I hadn't brought a drop-deck trailer the move probably wouldn't have happened that day. Secondly, the fence seems to be really, really nice. Doesn't seem that sophisticated, but is rock steady and extremely easy to use (even with rusty internals and guide bar (which turned out to be solid steel and almost dropped on my leg.. see previous comment on it being a silly heavy saw).

I attached a few pics below and then will post some of the questions I come up with as I go along. The main one will be regarding possibly retrofitting a riving knife, but also would be interested in seeting any pictures members here have of the "exaust hood" (part D-1026/355) as I will defintiely try and fab one up soon.

Thank you!


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## misterfish (23 Nov 2018)

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Previously there have been questions about the riving knife and blade guard as well as the mechanism for holding the assembly allowing itro rise and fall with the blade.

I suggest you look back at the following posts that may give you a lot of useful info about the components as well as measurements I took from my machine.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post589648.html?hilit=wadkin#p589648

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post1130889.html?hilit=wadkin#p1130889

and 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/wadkin-ags-10-riving-knife-t84071.html

On my saw the 10" blade retracts below the table, but with a 12" blade it doesn't (no surprise there). I haven't needed to make any adjustments so can't help with that.

I get some lash - not too bad to annoy me. I just lower the blade and then crank it up to the required blade height.

I have the same fence and totally agree with you solid and easily adjusted to be parallel with the blade.

As for the weight it is about 250Kg (550 pounds) so it is indeed solid!

I've never looked at the inner blade dust shield. I'll have a look next time I'm in the workshop and let you know what it's like.

I hope you've not been affected by the horrendous wildfires - just feel so sorry for those affected.

Regards

Jeff (aka Misterfis)


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## KT_NorCal (24 Nov 2018)

Hi Jeff, 
Nice to meet you and thanks for the links, I had found one of those but had not seen the others. After looking at the different threads you suggested, I'm relatively certain this AGS is set up for that later "parallelogram" riving knife attachment. Apparently it was just never used due to the "US spec" guard that was shipped on it. Hopefully I will be able to find spares somewhere. If you have any suggestions of where to dig around I would be glad to hear... all I can think of is maybe tool dealers who deal in these kind of saws and may have a parts machine or two lying around. 

I also think I've isolated the probable problem of the lash.. in this case it was extreme in that the hand wheel would rotate more than a full revolution befor engaging one way or another... I've attached a couple pics of the shaft and it looks like it is pulling out of its seating by a few MM before engaging. I'm hoping this is something that is just out of ajustment, but guess I will find out once I diassasemble it ia bit. Someone has clearly marked an "x" on the shaft at some point in the past to probably confirm the same problem, so I have a feeling it has been like this for a while on top of sitting for over 10 years pretty much unused.

I'll definitely have a few more questions about the fence and aligning it properly once I get to that point as the manual isn't hugely helpful. 

I would defintiely be interested to see any internal dust managment as, at least on mine, it seems to be minimal to none. The dust extraction hood that is missing on this one for sure is the one that sits at the bottom of the motor cover... it's definitely an oddball shape as it was as wide as the cabinet, but only about an inch to two inches in height. The drawing in the manual is zero help, but at least it did give the part number. I turned up big zeros looking for that online, so not sure if it was just another US specal mod.

One question that just came up... Can you confirm if the arbor threads on these saws are BSW 5/8 11 TPI left hand thread? I read a couple threads here and there was more than one suggestion that it was a 12 TPI thread... which would make it a real oddball. Want to find an arbor nut for it at some point...

No problems here with the fires. Know some people who were affected though so is very sad. The problem was that the winds that day were gale force combined with warm dry conditions and it got out of control very quickly. It doesn't rain in the summer here in CA so they came at the end of the dry season. Where I picked up the saw was 100 miles from the area where the fire was and it looked like what I theorize a nuclear winter might be like.. the smoke was so dense you could barely see the sun.

Thanks again for the help!
Kevin


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## MusicMan (24 Nov 2018)

Hi and welcome from another AGS user.

Your question on the arbor nut. It is definitely not 5/8 BSW 11 tpi . It is a 5/8" square-form left hand thread, 12 tpi. This picture shows it quite well against a steel rule:






This one shows it against an 11 tpi gauge, which is showing that it is definitely not 11 tpi:






I don't think you can possibly buy one of these except maybe from a scrap saw. A machinist could make one, at a price. I'd carry on with your dado arbor screw.

Keith


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## julianf (24 Nov 2018)

My earlier saw does not have this bit -






My later one does. I'd imagine that yours is supposed to, but I cant be sure without looking at all there again!


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## MusicMan (24 Nov 2018)

That's part of the parallelogram mechanism for making the riving knife rise and fall with the blade. My saw is early and does not have that. It just has two studs for affixing the riving knife, as shown in the OP's second picture. It's much more convenient to have the RK moving with the blade, but it can be adjusted manually to the same effect.


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## KT_NorCal (25 Nov 2018)

MusicMan":3is1dcy2 said:


> Hi and welcome from another AGS user.
> 
> Your question on the arbor nut. It is definitely not 5/8 BSW 11 tpi . It is a 5/8" square-form left hand thread, 12 tpi. This picture shows it quite well against a steel rule:
> 
> ...



Hi Keith,
Ah, of course it would be 12 tpi… why make things easy? 

Does this thread even have a name? The Delta Unisaw has a bit of an oddball 12 tpi as well, but at least it is an acme thread. 

The dado nut is prob fine for now, I just ultimately would like to find an arbor nut.
Thanks for the help with this!
Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (25 Nov 2018)

julianf":l8do01gw said:


> My earlier saw does not have this bit -
> 
> My later one does. I'd imagine that yours is supposed to, but I cant be sure without looking at all there again!



Hi Julian,
I think that bit is from a bit earlier than the parallelogram design... Based on what I've seen it seems to be the solution used between the type on the earlier saws (and my US spec later one) and the later saws which had a completely different design that mounted around the arbor... I found a picture of that later design on the web from a very nice restore job someone did and it shows the full parallelogram set up (the picture is from a AGS 12, but they are essentially the same design).

Do you know what is coming on you AGS 250 top half?

Kevin


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## misterfish (25 Nov 2018)

Hi Kevin

My saw is actually a BTR10 - basically an AGS10 but with a sliding table in place of the left hand table extension. It spent most of its life in a school woodwork shop. 






The sliding table attachmet took up too much space and is currently removed and replaced with a home made table wing. 

From what I have been able to find out there are lots of versions with assorted variations. The school version like mine is all metric with 20mm arbor, 20 mm mitre slot and metric bolts. As far as I know the 5/8 arbor and 3/4 mitre slot are 'normal'.

When I got my saw I contacted Wadkin and they sent me the instructions www.drosera.f2s.com/ags10old.pdf which gave me some useful information and subsequently I have collected other AGS manuals which cover different aspects of the various saws sold in more or less detail but are worth looking at as they can clarify some details and give some good parts diagrams. The others that I have are
www.drosera.f2s.com/ags10.pdf
www.drosera.f2s.com/ags12.pdf
www.drosera.f2s.com/ags14.pdf
www.drosera.f2s.com/ags250-300.pdf
and
www.drosera.f2s.com/agsp1.pdf

In the old manual most of the threads are Whitworth so they may have that for the arbor.

I'll try and get some pictures of the internal dust shield if I can - one of the parts diagrams shows more details that may be like yours.

Jeff


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## KT_NorCal (25 Nov 2018)

Hi Jeff,
Wow, those are fantastic. Thank you. I'll read though them tomorrow. I will also scan the manual that came with my saw and send it over in case that helps anyone. It is a bit rumpled/dirty, but it should scan ok.

My manual shows the 20mm arbor as an option and gives a separate option for a 25mm one as well. The specs in the front of this manual say it is a 5/8th inch saw arbor though and it just occurred to me that I didn't bother to put a caliper on it. I should probably actually measure it so I'm sure of what I have so will do that tomorrow. The mitre slots must be 20.something mm though as I put my calipers on the mitre bar (which is sitting in a citric acid solution at the moment being de-rusted) and it came out at 19.95mm.

Also, randomly the saw came with a pristine manual for a "20" BSW Circular Sawbench" and the engineering drawing for the BSS/FD dated 1966. If you think that might be of interest to folks here I'm happy to scan that as well.

Kevin


PS: should add, your saw looks great and the sliding table is neat, It gives that option in this manual as well, so I'm guessing our saws are pretty similar on the inside as well.


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## misterfish (25 Nov 2018)

Thanks for that Kevin. I'd appreciate copies of any manuals/documents you've got.

I think you mentioned obtaining parts. From time to time things get listed on on UK eBay. Also maybe Wallace could have some ideas. He does fantastic renovations of Wadkin kit and has posted loads of WIP threads on this forum.

Jeff


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## MusicMan (25 Nov 2018)

Mine is as described in the manual that mister fish just posted (no sliding table). I agree that they came in many variants/developments. Mine is pretty rigorously Imperial threads throughout, mostly BSW. The arbor nut of course is a special left hand thread. I don't believe the Whitworth profile was ever used on such saws. Whether Imperial or metric, it would be either a square thread (which needs no further definition other than pitch and diameter) or ACME or Buttress form. Mine is square as seen in the pics.

Always happy to collect information on these saws! I have not done a complete rebuild, but am always thrilled by the quality of the cut. It is worth getting good blades. I have a combination blade that I leave on most of the time. For best quality cutting I use a Freud thin kerf ripping blade for ripping and an 80 tooth (I think also Freud) for crosscutting.

It is worth checking the zero on the mitre gauge. It's adjustable;e and mine was significant out when it came.

Keith


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## KT_NorCal (26 Nov 2018)

MusicMan":hfgub358 said:


> Hi and welcome from another AGS user.
> 
> Your question on the arbor nut. It is definitely not 5/8 BSW 11 tpi . It is a 5/8" square-form left hand thread, 12 tpi. This picture shows it quite well against a steel rule:



Well, I did confirm it was a 5/8th arbor and you are correct about the thread... definitely a square thread although mine is a bit beat up towards the end so it is partially round-ish now. 







As far as the mitre gauge goes I'll double check it... it is a bit cheap looking to be honest and pretty sure the top is aluminum. It is one of those ones with a spring loaded stop for detents at 90 and 45... not sure how much precision is there to be got tbh... I'll post a pic once it get it back together... all in pieces at the moment being cleaned up. From the miter slots on the machine still being painted though I'm pretty sure they didn't use it much previously.
Kevin


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## misterfish (26 Nov 2018)

Hi Kevin

Just back from the workshop and have looked at the dust shield. The following may be of help.

It is not a sophisticated component but engineered to perform its function. It is made from a piece of folded steel about 0.07 inches thick.


































Hopefully this should be enough to let you make a suitable replacement.

Jeff


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## KT_NorCal (27 Nov 2018)

Hi Jeff,
Thank you for the pictures! It looks like I have that bit and if this is the only piece inside the cabinet I should be good to go... I thought there might be something more extensive than that, but some of the saws I've seen online might have had owner made bits on them. The part I'm definitely missing is the one that connects to the cabinet below the motor mount. It is a very odd shape for a dust port and I haven't even been able to find a picture of it online so will just try to make something up for it.


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## KT_NorCal (27 Nov 2018)

I didn't make any progress on the lash issue yesterday, but figured out exactly what is up with the blade not dropping fully below the table... It turns out another person a few years ago on a different forum had had the same exact problem and solved it by adjusting the arbor limit screws... Apparently the one that limits the upper limit of the blade also, when set to allow full blade extension, blocs the arbor from dropping all the way down. He solved it by removing the screw and cutting it down a bit and replacing it.

My question is that there is no way I can imagine Wadkin Bursgreen would have shipped a saw that you couldn't drop the blade all the way down on (or at least, I should say, wouldn't have shipped a saw *design*… whether there was some Friday afternoon engineering going on and someone just put a wrong screw in there is another question) and it sounds like most of you never had this problem, so is there something else that I might be missing? What the guy described is definitely true as you can see from the picture of my saw, but I can't imagine that is the only thing...











Also the guy described in his post another problem he was having where the arbor didn't come down smoothly and would sort of bind and drop... apparently that was fixed with a thorough cleaning and adjustment, so another reason I should get on with taking this apart...

Kevin


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## misterfish (27 Nov 2018)

The dust pjust made ort on mine is the same as yours. I just made a plywood adapter with a 100mm dust port to fit against the side of the saw and that seems to work OK.






Jeff


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## KT_NorCal (27 Nov 2018)

That is probably where I'll end up. It must be a rare option as I definitely have not been able to find any pictures of the factory one...


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## KT_NorCal (27 Nov 2018)

MusicMan":wnn0dzwk said:


> I don't think you can possibly buy one of these except maybe from a scrap saw. A machinist could make one, at a price. I'd carry on with your dado arbor screw.
> 
> Keith



So, this may potentially cause an international incident or at a minimum freak a few people out, but here goes....

Here in a Delta Unisaw arbor and arbor nut....





And here is a Delta Unisaw arbor nut on a AGS 10 arbor...





So, AGS 10 arbor nut sourcing is henceforth solved? 

Maybe. I didn't gorilla it down or anything, so not 100 percent sure, but it spun completly freely all the way down to the bottom of the thread. I'll play with it more later this week when I have some free time..

Kevin

PS: my supply of random luck may have been used up for the week.


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## MusicMan (27 Nov 2018)

I am not sure that there ever was a Wadkin dust port for the cabinet! All the ones I have seen have been user made. Mine has a motor cover that is clearly user made and I am working towards putting a port beneath it and a ramp inside the saw to guid the dust down to it.

Axminster do ports in various sizes and shapes that should be usable.

Keith


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## merlin (27 Nov 2018)

This is the one on mine. 

Merlin


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## KT_NorCal (28 Nov 2018)

That's it I think... The PO of my saw said it looked like HVAC ducting and he didn't even think about it when it tossed it.. Also the slightly staggered screw holes are the same as on mine. Bit complicated shape given my metal working skills so might have to make something a bit different.

Also, what is that metal bar bit bolted to the side of your table? Something for the fence to rest on? Looks like a good idea actually as I think my table extension is already drilled for that bit...

Thanks for the pics!
Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (28 Nov 2018)

MusicMan":q136hth8 said:


> I am not sure that there ever was a Wadkin dust port for the cabinet! All the ones I have seen have been user made. Mine has a motor cover that is clearly user made and I am working towards putting a port beneath it and a ramp inside the saw to guid the dust down to it.
> 
> Axminster do ports in various sizes and shapes that should be usable.
> 
> Keith



There is definitely one in the manual with a part number and everything... it is combined with a completely pathetic drawing of it, but I'm 99% sure the one Merlin posted is the part.. I'm guessing it was optional and was not ordered often as well as what happened with the one on mine... eventually got tossed when someone wasn't paying attention for looking like slightly rumpled HVAC fitting....


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## KT_NorCal (28 Nov 2018)

merlin":2ix42c9l said:


> This is the one on mine.
> 
> Merlin


 
Hi Merlin, 
Do you have a thread on your saw? If not I wouldn't mind seeing some more pictues of it... 

Is that second "line" running inside your AGS a grease tube for the motor bearings? 
Thanks!
Kevin


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## misterfish (28 Nov 2018)

KT_NorCal":2666ws7t said:


> Also, what is that metal bar bit bolted to the side of your table? Something for the fence to rest on? Looks like a good idea actually as I think my table extension is already drilled for that bit...



Yes, you can also see it in my picture of my saw with the home made plywood dust port. It allows the full width of the travel of the fence beyond the edge of the right hand wing.

Jeff


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## merlin (28 Nov 2018)

Hello Kevin,
The second line with the grease nipple is a hand brake cable, it looks like an original fitting and is useful.
It would be easy to rig up if a handle could be found as it’s mot very complicated.
I will take some more photos later and post them up.
Jeff, 
I don’t think ours can be far apart by the look of them, I’ll put the numbers on the photos.
Cheers, Merlin


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## merlin (28 Nov 2018)

Here's a few more photos.

Hopefully of some use.

Cheers, Merlin


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## KT_NorCal (30 Nov 2018)

Hi Merlin,
Very, cool. Didn't realize yours was a rolling table as well. That hand brake looks very nicely done actually and would be helpful with heavy things like dado stacks especially. Was it a user mod or factory? I'm guessing that the rolling table BRTs had slightly longer fence guide bars as standard hence the table extension to support the fence. The short guide bars on mine are nice given my space issues, but the right side of the fence falls off the bar before the fence edge gets to the side of the table, which I think might end up being a bit of a pain (eventually).

It looks like your fence has the original "sight glass" in the fence attachment... mine has gone missing which creates a slight problem... you know if these can be had as spares?

Also, the inside of your saw looks very similar, but with some slight differences (the end of the arbor where the nut is attached, the bar running across the motor plate under it... also the pivot pin looks to be bronze on yours... seems to be steel in mine.. but then again haven't cleaned it up, so will see).

Kevin

Edit: It just occurred to me that the different end on the end of your arbor and that bar underneath might be part of the brake... which would make sense. Seems a very nicely done braking solution...


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## merlin (30 Nov 2018)

Hello Kevin,

Going back a few years I did a post on the sight glass as mine was also missing, it was quite easy to make another one and from memory Mr fish helped me with the dims.
I’ll dig out the photos later.

Merlin


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## merlin (30 Nov 2018)

Just seen your photos, I thought the whole thing was missing - I used an eye loupe lens and painted a red line in the middle.


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## KT_NorCal (30 Nov 2018)

misterfish":2ybk7u0a said:


> Yes, you can also see it in my picture of my saw with the home made plywood dust port. It allows the full width of the travel of the fence beyond the edge of the right hand wing.
> 
> Jeff



Duh on my part! Sorry... that was staring at me in plain sight and I totally missed it.  I do think a slightly longer guide rail would be a nice to have as it would let me deal with slightly larger bits of ply, so will have to keep an eye out for some parts... I was wondering what the slightly odd spacing of the holes in the side of the table extension were about, so that answers that.

Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (30 Nov 2018)

That is an awesome idea... hadn't even thought about that. Was thinking along the lines of butchering one of the square plastic biesemeyer ones without messing it up too badly. Thanks for the idea!


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## KT_NorCal (30 Nov 2018)

MusicMan":xjuxktlt said:


> It is worth checking the zero on the mitre gauge. It's adjustable;e and mine was significant out when it came.
> 
> Keith



So, here is the mitre gauge de-rusted and cleaned up. Was this the version of it that you were thinking? It seems relatively square, but it is hard for me to really be sure as I don't have a machinists square... My woodworking square is a piece of hardware I'm always a bit suspicious about. That said it doesn't look grossly out of square... it is also hard to be sure because the face is most definitely not flat. I will need to flat that off first and then take another look at it...

Kevin


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## misterfish (30 Nov 2018)

merlin":1gyxpitn said:


> I don’t think ours can be far apart by the look of them, I’ll put the numbers on the photos.
> Cheers, Merlin



My machine plate states 10BRT 79304 so probably just a bit earlier than yours.





Years ago when I got the saw I asked about its age and was told the 79 did not mean 1979. I got a reply from Scrit with the following info

_"I've had a chat with a friend who used to work for Wadkin about the BRT. He tells me that they were manufactured in the 1950s and 1970s and always (to his knowledge) had the sliding table, whereas the AGS did not. The rip fence and handles are later (mid-1970s onwatds) versions, as is the badge, whilst the machine number points to an early/mid 1970s machine and the MEM switch box is an earlier type box (they went to greay square plastic switch gear boxes in the larte 1970s. Perhaps Dalton's in Nottingham (who still exist) would be abl; to give you chapter and verse on the machine.

Wadkin re-engineered the AGS range of saws in 1980 or thereabouts and the designs all became much boxier. At that time they rationalised they small saw range and dropped the AGS-derived BGS and BGP in favour of the AGSP and SP12. They still made three sizes of AGS saws (10, 12 and 14in with an option of a sliding table - although late AGS10s are probably rarer than hens teeth)." _

I think Wallace has a lot of info about wadkin serial numbers and dates.

Jeff


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## merlin (1 Dec 2018)

Thanks Jeff - interesting stuff, mine came from a school in Rotherham.

Merlin


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## MusicMan (1 Dec 2018)

KT_NorCal":1nrvm2ue said:


> MusicMan":1nrvm2ue said:
> 
> 
> > It is worth checking the zero on the mitre gauge. It's adjustable;e and mine was significant out when it came.
> ...



Yes that is the version. The zero can be adjusted by removing that box cover at the bottom.

You don't need a square to check a square, since 4 x 90 = 360, a perfect circle. You can take a piece of plywood and make five cuts using the mitre gauge, rotating the piece one "right angle" clockwise each time. If your gauge is true, you will have a perfect square with all sides equal. If not, the width of the edge at either end of the fifth cut will show you how much it is out.

If you google "five-cut method for square' you will find plenty of detailed descriptions.

When it is all set, you can use your test square to set your woodworkers' square. Or you can build a jig to check your square, as I described in this thread: 
high-accuracy-square-setting-jig-t93871.html?hilit=%20square

Keith


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## memzey (1 Dec 2018)

Very happy 1963 BGS10 owner here. I did a full resto thread on the Canadian site a few years ago. A bit daunting at first but all fairly straight forward once you’re into it. They are very similar machines I think although yours is later than mine. I do think yours is configured for a proper riving knife but you seem to have lost the parallelogram bracket which makes it rise and fall with the blade. Watching this thread with interest.


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## KT_NorCal (3 Dec 2018)

memzey":3qvyvo0p said:


> Very happy 1963 BGS10 owner here. I did a full resto thread on the Canadian site a few years ago. A bit daunting at first but all fairly straight forward once you’re into it. They are very similar machines I think although yours is later than mine. I do think yours is configured for a proper riving knife but you seem to have lost the parallelogram bracket which makes it rise and fall with the blade. Watching this thread with interest.



Hi there,
I'm pretty sure I've read that thread two or three times actually as I have been looking for a BGS10 for a long time, but had given up finding one here in the States. Pretty sure they were never imported for whatever reason or if they were it was in minisucle numbers... Net, net I have some saw envy related to your BGS! When the AGS10 came up I grabbed it as I know they are good saws as well. Will definitely post my progress (and many questions) as I go along. If that is your BGS over at the Canadian forum I actually was planning on PMing you to see what that light gold color paint was that you used under the table... I thought it looked pretty good and was going to steal the idea for the some of the guts of this thing!

I've sort of come to the conclusion that this machine could support the proper riving knife set up as well. I think these US market ones (not sure about Canada) all had the US spec blade guard which is of a design that would not have worked with that riving knife and the crown guard that was used in the UK market so I'm pretty sure they were never attached. I'll post pictures of the guard as soon as I get it cleaned up. From what the PO said they found it useless and just removed it, so I don't think it has been used much. Just sat there rusting over time. I defintely would like to swap it out at some point if I can find the parts as I like the UK crown guard better as well as for a riving knife to really be useful you should have one for each blade thickness that you use, so think it is a much safer set up as well.

Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (3 Dec 2018)

MusicMan":2b0u5827 said:


> Yes that is the version. The zero can be adjusted by removing that box cover at the bottom.



Hi Keith,
I actually had that bit apart and there is no adjustment built into it... I can see possibly wallowing out the screw holes in the bottom of it a bit to give me a little movement, but otherwise this one at least doesn't seem to allow for anything as is. Will take it apart and post a pic.



MusicMan":2b0u5827 said:


> You don't need a square to check a square, since 4 x 90 = 360, a perfect circle. You can take a piece of plywood and make five cuts using the mitre gauge, rotating the piece one "right angle" clockwise each time. If your gauge is true, you will have a perfect square with all sides equal. If not, the width of the edge at either end of the fifth cut will show you how much it is out.
> 
> If you google "five-cut method for square' you will find plenty of detailed descriptions.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link... that is actually pretty nice thing to know. Only challenge is that I'm not currently set up to run a 3HP phase converter/VFD in my garage, so until I can swap the motor out for a 1hp I have I won't be able to run the thing... once I get the electrical in my garage sorted I'll swap the old motor back in and get it running on a proper VFD.  There is always something...


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## KT_NorCal (3 Dec 2018)

misterfish":1cmkuj1b said:


> merlin":1cmkuj1b said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t think ours can be far apart by the look of them, I’ll put the numbers on the photos.
> ...



Here is the number plate on mine... I would have a hard time believing the 79, 80 or other designations are not indicative of the year though. The PO of mine said they bought it for sure in late 79 or early 80, since that is when they acquired most of their machinery, so that would track to this being a late 79 or so saw for sure.


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## KT_NorCal (3 Dec 2018)

merlin":1i7rmavn said:


> Here's a few more photos.
> 
> Hopefully of some use.
> 
> Cheers, Merlin



Hi Merlin,
Looks like mine was drilled and tapped for the hand brake... also the motor support plate has the right slots/holes in it as well. Just no brake.


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## KT_NorCal (12 Dec 2018)

MusicMan":2nfct5tz said:


> Yes that is the version. The zero can be adjusted by removing that box cover at the bottom.
> 
> Keith




I ended up lapping the front of it to get it flat and then measured with a machinists square I was able to borrow... it's close but not exact. I pulled the box with the spring loaded pin off again and managed to strip out one of the little hex head screws so will need to replace that, but there doesn't seem to be any adjustment ability. Did you just wallow out the screw holes in the "box" to get some adjustment ability or was there some built in on yours?

Kevin


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## Vann (13 Dec 2018)

KT_NorCal":lib0qbyn said:


> ... I would have a hard time believing the 79, 80 or other designations are not indicative of the year though. The PO of mine said they bought it for sure in late 79 or early 80, since that is when they acquired most of their machinery, so that would track to this being a late 79 or so saw for sure.


Wallace has a website with info to date Wadkins manufactured at their Green Lane works. For years it was thought that the first two digits of the Test Number (not the Serial Number) was the year of manufacture - but wallace obtained info that disproved the theory (since verified from other sources).

However, Wadkin-Bursgreen machines use a different numbering system. Anything made at one of the former Bursgreen factories (such as the AGS and BGS - in fact just about anything that starts with a B). I believe that the first two digits of the Serial Number DO indicate the year of manufacture for Bursgreen machines. 

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (14 Dec 2018)

Vann":3uidss7p said:


> - in fact just about anything that starts with a B). I believe that the first two digits of the Serial Number DO indicate the year of manufacture for Bursgreen machines.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



It would make sense in my mind. I have a BER2 that is a "77" and the purchase history tracks to that being the year it was bought as well...


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## KT_NorCal (14 Dec 2018)

Anyone have any thoughts on how this "fine adjust" wheel comes off this fence? I assume the shaft itself was pushed though the cast part of the fence and then the black handle was pressed on. There is a bronze (I assume) bushing in the cast portion so that the shaft is a moderate slip fit (so it can be pulled in and out) and then the handle seems to be on there pretty good. There is another bronze looking bushing in the handle as well. Figured I would ask in case anyone has removed/replaced one of these before. Would rather not mess it up doing something stupid.

K


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## skelph (14 Dec 2018)

We've just had to replace the fine adjuster on the Wadkin machine in our (still to be completed) Mens Shed because past users had stripped the teeth on the drive cog. I just used an appropriately sized parallel pin punch on the cog end to gently tap the unit out. 
There were two bronze bushes in the casting where the smooth shaft passed through it which came out easily enough. One of the members made a new shaft complete with the drive cog and we put it back in place using the original bushes and a new knob (we couldn't get the original knob off the shaft to re-use it). We used a clamp to press the new unit into place.
Hope this helps.
skelph


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## MusicMan (14 Dec 2018)

[/quote]
Hi Keith,
I actually had that bit apart and there is no adjustment built into it... I can see possibly wallowing out the screw holes in the bottom of it a bit to give me a little movement, but otherwise this one at least doesn't seem to allow for anything as is. Will take it apart and post a pic.
[/quote]

I just had a look. You are right, there is no adjuster per se, but I found there was enough wiggle room on the screws that you mention, to get it square. IIRC the protractor on the body was good enough, for any more you will have to wait till you get a good square or can run the machine.

Keith


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## KT_NorCal (15 Dec 2018)

skelph":36je5zk9 said:


> We've just had to replace the fine adjuster on the Wadkin machine in our (still to be completed) Mens Shed because past users had stripped the teeth on the drive cog. I just used an appropriately sized parallel pin punch on the cog end to gently tap the unit out.
> There were two bronze bushes in the casting where the smooth shaft passed through it which came out easily enough. One of the members made a new shaft complete with the drive cog and we put it back in place using the original bushes and a new knob (we couldn't get the original knob off the shaft to re-use it). We used a clamp to press the new unit into place.
> Hope this helps.
> skelph



Hmmm, intersting. For my own clarity:
1. you tapped the whole assembly out from the inside... the "geared" end then dragged the two bronze bushingings out with it? Didn't even think to look and see if the business end cleared the inside hole diameter, so that might make things easier.

2. When you reassembled did you press the bushings back in then thread the rod though? I assume so if you then used a clamp to press the handle on.

The first part could solve getting it out of the casting for me, but I would need to devise some way to get the bushings back in. Do you know if they were seperated or were they butting up against one another? If the latter, it probally would work without too much trouble. I have access to an arbor press, so could press the whole thing back through (in theory).

Thanks for the insight!

Kevin

PS: "Men's shed" is probably the most outstanding name for a members club ever if that is what it is. ha! It a woodworking/maker lab sort of set up?


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## KT_NorCal (15 Dec 2018)

MusicMan":1yo9y47k said:


> I just had a look. You are right, there is no adjuster per se, but I found there was enough wiggle room on the screws that you mention, to get it square. IIRC the protractor on the body was good enough, for any more you will have to wait till you get a good square or can run the machine.
> 
> Keith



Yea, I was able to take it to a machine shop at the local junior college near me and use one of their squares (was there doing other projects, so brought it along) and was able to get it locked square using the lock knob... the pin at 90 degrees just allowed it to wobble off of 90, so I need to see if I need to clean up the mitre detent itself. A sligtly more annoying thing was that since the bottom of the mitre wasn't actually machined, when sitting on the tablesaw table it is at a slightly off angle to the 45 (to the table) it is supposed to be... and because of the fixed "pin" in the bottom you can't really lap it smooth like you could the front. Not a huge deal one way or another, but given how nice the grind is on the rest of the machine it seems odd they didn't bother with the mitre. 

Kevin


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## skelph (15 Dec 2018)

> 2. When you reassembled did you press the bushings back in then thread the rod though? I assume so if you then used a clamp to press the handle on.



It came out as one unit. Because we couldn't separate the knob from the shaft we had to replace the whole thing because previous users had ruined the splines on the end so they didn't engage with the underside of the fence rail. One of the members machined a new shaft complete with splined end and threaded the end to receive a new star knob. We slid the bushings on to the shaft (the one nearest the splines is slightly tapered so it goes in easier), attached the knob to the shaft using Loctite and then pressed the unit into place using a G clamp. The base of the knob was strong enough to press the bushings fully into position. Much to our relief when the fence was put back on the fence rail the whole thing functioned as it should.

The winding knob appears to be permanently fixed to the shaft - we couldn't find a way to separate them. Your unit doesn't appear to be damaged so you won't have to worry about getting the two bushings the right way round. The removal and refitting is a lot easier than I thought it would be.

In your case it looks like you will need to find a slightly different way of pressing the unit back into the fence - on our fence there was a flat metal part that supported the cogged end and we could use that to place the other end of the clamp on. 

It's a pity that I never thought to take photos of the process at the time. I'll see if I can get some pictures when I'm back there on Tuesday.

Hope this helps and it all works out.

skelph


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## KT_NorCal (18 Dec 2018)

skelph":1ahn2y5t said:


> In your case it looks like you will need to find a slightly different way of pressing the unit back into the fence - on our fence there was a flat metal part that supported the cogged end and we could use that to place the other end of the clamp on.
> 
> It's a pity that I never thought to take photos of the process at the time. I'll see if I can get some pictures when I'm back there on Tuesday.
> 
> ...




Hmmm, this is helpful to know. I may wait to try it until I'm ready to paint the thing given what you say. I did take a closer look at it and it does look like the inner splined end will clear the hole in the casting, but not the bushings, so hopefully it will dislodge them and drag them out without making a scene. I'll probalby soak it in some penatrating fluid before I try it. As long as the bushings don't have to be spaced in the casting I think pressing them back in should be ok (again, in theory).

Definitely would be interested in seeing any pictures as I don't have the support part that you are talking about... wonder if it is just missing, or did you have the later variation of this fence?

Thanks!
Kevin


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## skelph (22 Dec 2018)

Kevin, you have PM re pictures.


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## KT_NorCal (3 Aug 2019)

Hi everyone,
Been a while... had a monsoon winter here in California and now have finally gotten back to working on the AGS10. First thing is I need to get it up and running for a few projects before I go through the process of completely tearing it down and restoring it. I'm stuck with 120V power in my garage for the next few months until I can get a new 240v panel installed. The problem this creates is that I can't run the AGS's 3hp motor on the 120v... 1hp or maybe 1.5hp is max on that, but I do have an old 1 hp Delta Repulsion/Induction motor that looks like it will (barely) fit, so I'm in the process of swapping it. I don't want to mess with the arbor pulley at this time and the new motor is an imperial frame not metric, so the shaft is 3/4" instead of just under 1" on the 3 hp Brooks. Net, net I need a new pulley for the motor and will probably look at getting a taper lock, single V belt pulley for this temporary set up.

This brings me to some questions:
1. Does anyone have a quick answer as to what class?/type? (not sure how to phrase it) of V belt that came on these AGS? I'll attach pictures since it looks like the original belts were still on mine. I assume these are metric, I took some calipers to them and they currently measure 8.08mm wide by 6.09mm deep. That doesn't correspond to any known V belt types I've been able to find so I assumed, given these are likely original, that they are just worn down. The closest match I was able to see were the XPZ/SPZ types which measure 9.7mm across the top and are 8mm deep/thick. Also, looking at the pulleys that are on the saw I suspect the sides/taper of the belt is different than what is usually seen here in the States. What does everyone else here run on theirs and am I missing something? 

2. Given the above, what type/class/name (again, not sure how to phrase it) of pulley would be a match for this original belt? I will need to find a taper lock hub that will fit on a 3/4" motor shaft and then a pulley/sheave that will match what I'm guessing is this metric based belt type... 

I also have a question about the actual pulley sizes, but I'll add that in a follow up post, so I don't conflate anything. Will add a few pictures of the progress I made so far cleaning it up in a follow up post too.
Thanks for the help!
K


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## Trevanion (3 Aug 2019)

That's a Z section belt, I think the M20.5 is some weird mumbo jumbo that just leads back to a Z section belt which is 10mm x 6mm. So I assume you need an Z20.5 belt but best to double-check the length measurements so that you don't order the wrong belt. If you've got plenty of travel in the motor bracket you could put on a different size belt as I imagine a 20.5 might be hard to find in the US but you might be able to find a Z20 which is a little shorter. The 20.5 refers to how many inches the belt is in length, so it should be 20 1/2".


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## KT_NorCal (4 Aug 2019)

Trevanion":2ig0w2op said:


> If you've got plenty of travel in the motor bracket you could put on a different size belt as I imagine a 20.5 might be hard to find in the US but you might be able to find a Z20 which is a little shorter. The 20.5 refers to how many inches the belt is in length, so it should be 20 1/2".



Hi there,
I realized today that the Delta donor motor since it was bigger would change the distance between the two pulley centers by a bit. I quickly measured it and it is an extra inch (measured at the bottom of the motor shaft) away from the arbor. Also given the different frame and resulting mounting point differences it looks like I'll need to add a 3/4" thick piece of ply to act as an offset motor mounting plate. Unfortunately the new motor's mounting holes are is an awkward place and if I drilled the motor mounting plate on the saw for it it would create a bit of a mess of the holes that are used for the Brooks motor, which I don't want to do... Anyway, As a result it looks like there will be an additional 1.75 inch additional that I will need to account for. Since there is only 3/4" of adjustment in the plate I'll need to get a "longer" belt anyway from the looks of things. now that I know they are Z section I can at least try and find the right belt and a temporary taper/sheave for the motor shaft.

I did cut the belt that was really thrashed, so I could properly measure it and it came to 21 and 11/16 inches long, so it might have stretched out over the years.

Thanks for the help!
Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (5 Aug 2019)

I did some more digging and it seems that this belt is a "M" type like it is marked on it... it is apparently a type that is not used very often any more. Haven't been able to find an pulleys/sheaves for it here in the US (doesn't help that it is metric), but it seems that the 3V type is pretty darn close and should be serviceable for a temporary solution. I'll probably need to run a longer belt so may just get a 3V instead of another M type...


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## ManowarDave (5 Aug 2019)

Z is the new M.

M was 10mm wide at the top and 5.5mm high.
Z is 10mm wide and 6 high.

The angle is 40 degrees for both.

You'll also get away with SPZ, 10 wide at the top, 8 high and 40 degrees if the groove in the pulley is deep enough.

Dave


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## KT_NorCal (9 Aug 2019)

Hmmm, All the info I've been able to find says M is 8mm wide and just under 6mm deep... which would jive with the actual measurements off these Wadkin branded v belts on this machine. As long as it is 40 degrees on the side though I should be ok using 3V pulley/sheaves though. They are a type that is somewhat common over here and I've found a couple sources for M section V belts here. Based on the measurements it is ok running M section belts in 3V pulleys but not 3v section belts in M section pulleys...

It should be enough for the short term.


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## Farmer Giles (9 Aug 2019)

These are the belts I have used on my AGS10, they are almost identical to Z section at 10mm x 8mm, however aimed at the car fan belt market.

The Z section cogged equivalent are prefixed XPZ, these are 9.7mm x 8mm.

AVX10X600 is a 10mm section belt 600mm long. I've swapped out the original 3 phase for a single phase motor so the length may not be standard.






Cheers
Andy


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## Fitzroy (9 Aug 2019)

Farmer Giles":1s7q5csx said:


> These are the belts I have used on my AGS10, they are almost identical to Z section at 10mm x 8mm, however aimed at the car fan belt market.
> 
> The Z section cogged equivalent are prefixed XPZ, these are 9.7mm x 8mm.
> 
> ...




Andy. 

Do you find the toothed belts any smoother?

Fitz


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## Farmer Giles (9 Aug 2019)

Hi Fitz

The saw came with toothed belts so difficult to say, but from previous experience there is little or no difference in that respect, but less prone to slip, I haven't used belt dressing on a toothed belt - yet!

That gives me an idea, the belt on my Rapidor mechanical hacksaw is a pig to tension, I may swap it for a toothed variety.....

Cheers
Andy


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## KT_NorCal (3 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> I’d really like to see a picture of the saw and the bush arrangement. It’s a new one to me. Sorry, don’t want to hijack the thread.



Hi Deema,
Here are some pictures I took tonight for you. I was actually able to tap the bushing out without too much effort, so I may try and replace it. The other one in the main trunnion casting is in there solid. Also, measurements are attached. Done with a cheap digital caliper not inside micrometer so take the measurements with a grain of salt as far as decimal point accuracy...

It definitely looks original though as there are no indications of a secondary boring operation on either.

Iside diameter of the casting bore hole: 25.05mm
Outside diameter of bronze bushing: 25.03
Inside diameter of bronze bushing: 20.06
Diameter of pin shaft: 20mm dead

Also, interestingly all the castings have what looks like yellow crayon identifying markings on them. I'm guessing it was from the factory for assembly purposes. The rack for the worm gear looks to be in great condition too which makes me happy.


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## deema (3 Dec 2021)

Thanks for sharing the pictures, very interesting and intriguing!

Having a bronze bush in the main trunion casting makes no sense as the pin is locked by the two set screws. The pin doesn’t rotate, only the casting on which the spindle is mounted.

I still think it’s been bushed after being rebored. Nothing wrong with that, it’s a good solution.
I don’t recognise the size of bush you would require to find an off the shelf replacement. However, with the grib holding it on the other side, I don’t think that the bush not being a press will will have any affect on the performance of the saw, after all it’s jus5 20 microns. If your concerned a bit of bearing lock will secure it.


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## KT_NorCal (4 Dec 2021)

I can't imagine when it could have been re-bored, honestly. The saw is really low mileage and the guy I bought it from knew it from when it was purchased. Also, nothing else has been apart on this thing, so I kinda have to think it was a factory job from the beginning. Unless, of course, the factory blew it on the first machining operation and wanted to save the parts from the bin.

I'll get better pics of the other half once it is out of the cast iron tub though. Maybe that bushing is steel given what you point out as far as it not rotating in that half. 

I'll probably just replace the bronze bushing as just doing a quick look around online there are some easy options that seem to be a tighter tolerance. For a couple bucks I might as well if I'm going through the hassle of rebuilding the whole thing (at least what is the reasoning I used to sell myself on doing it).
(for example: Multipurpose 660 Leaded Sleeve Bearing, for 20 mm Shaft Diameter, for 25 mm Housing ID, 25 mm Long | McMaster-Carr )

KT


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## KT_NorCal (8 Dec 2021)

Got the top off and almost all the guts out of the machine. It's an interesting design for the trunnions compared to the Delta Unisaw. Definitely think the newer raise/lower trunnion rear retaining contraption isn't a very good design. The older version with a proper ghib plate makes much more sense. It's probably why when lowering the blade it wouldn't drop smoothly and juddered its way down.




Question: Is there an elegant way of getting this tilt worm mechanism out of the saw? It looks like that worm roll pin must be punched out and then the front handwheel roll pin punched out as well and it should push out the other side of the saw, but wanted ask first in case there was a specifc process for going about it...




Another question: the saw arbor is pressed out the front of the housing, yes (once you remove the locating screw in the side of course)? Also is the inner blade flange pressed off too or do most people just leave it alone? I was thinking of lapping it is the only reason I ask.


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## KT_NorCal (9 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> Having a bronze bush in the main trunion casting makes no sense as the pin is locked by the two set screws. The pin doesn’t rotate, only the casting on which the spindle is mounted.



Turns out the bushing in main trunion is probably steel of some kind, as you predicted. Glass bead blasted the machined ways on the tunion and took at closer look at it. Definitely sounds like it as well. Either way, definitely not bronze colored!


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## KT_NorCal (9 Dec 2021)

Also, does anyone have any idea how sensitive the Brooks three phase motors that came in these 70s era Wadkin Bursgreen models are? It lists the motor as dual voltage with the lower voltage being 230. The voltages here where I am in California run 120 and 240 and tend to be very stable. Running a rotary phase converter is going to increase that a bit (at least on two of the legs). I have a 3hp Brooks in the AGS and a 4hp Brooks in the BER2.
Thanks!


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## deema (9 Dec 2021)

Getting the worm gear out can be frustrating! You need to remove the handle as you’ve identified and also the collar that’s held in place by a grub screw on the inside at the opposite side. Remove the pin from the worm gear. Clean all the rust off the shaft. Now try moving the worm gear…..it may well be stuck as the pin often bruises the hole in the shaft. Equally try to move the internal collar, the grub screw is likely to have knarled the shaft which needs sorting. We usually remove the external collar on the opposite external side to the handle and tap it from this side through, avoiding any possibility of damaging the threaded handle side. I would say about 1 in 10 we end up cutting the shaft and making a new one due to not being able to get the worm to slide.


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## deema (9 Dec 2021)

If you have a look on our thread about restoring a Wadkin BGS10 we go through how to disassemble/ assemble the spindle.








Wadkin BGS10…The rarest table saw Wadkin made. Full Restoration


So looking at the slider their is no adjustment of the slider in relation to the blade. Lovely job by the way.




www.ukworkshop.co.uk





The only difference with yours is that the spindle is contained in a separate casting. What ever you do, DO NOT apply any pressure to the rotating cast iron collar on the spindle casting. This forms part of the rise and fall system and any pressure will distort it and cause it to bind or worse still crack. If you distort it you need to get it rebored.

The internal flange on the spindle is not pressed on, it’s machined from solid item. We always using a lathe to touch up the flange and make it true to the shaft again.


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## deema (9 Dec 2021)

The motor probably needs to have its bearings changed, the front bearing is highly likely to be on its last legs. Typically we would in these circumstances run the motor from a VFD which produces a fully balanced output, however, it really needs the motor to have class F insulation for it to be used with an inverter.


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## MilesH (10 Dec 2021)

Hi Kevin,

Just noticed you've been updating here. My AGS10 (1977). has the bronze bush in the rise & fall casting but the bore through the main casting is 20mm, no steel bush. Have you had juddering/jumping problems because the rise and fall casting assembly doesn't fall under its own weight? I've had this from new with mine. I always attributed it to their hack design replacement of the gib strip system. Recently, I replaced the bronze bush and doing that showed up significant angular discrepancy between the slide surfaces of the two castings. At first, I thought that it was from post machining distortion of the castings but, having checked that, I now think it is a discrepancy between the pivot borings of the two castings. That's where I am, at the moment. The problem with the rise & fall assembly not falling under its own weight is definitely misalignment between the two castings. The rise and fall works fine on my 1960 BGS but the saw spindle isn't perpendicular to the sliding table movement axis. This *is* more likely to be distortion of the rise & fall casting in the other plane, I think. There is a gap between the castings at the pivot with the slide surfaces mated. Not that impressed with the workmanship/QC at Durham. I had to replace my AGS spindle bearings after 6 months because they had been so badly fitted.......


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## deema (10 Dec 2021)

That’s really interesting Miles, I wonder if the bush was something particular to the USA markets?? With your machine that makes it two US based machines. I have worked on a lot of UK based AGS saws and so far none have been bushed.


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## MilesH (10 Dec 2021)

Hi Deema, I may have confused you by posting on the Canadian & American websites. I live and work in London : ) My guess was that the bushing was something that came in about '76/'77 There were other changes to the design at that time. Both Kevin's and my machine have the single brass adjustment screw as replacement for the gib strip on the rise & fall slideway. There again, if you haven't come across it before, it might have been something they did as an individual correction? Whatever, it's difficult to understand the reasoning! I've attached a spreadsheet I started, to track some of the changes to the AGS & BGS. If anyone has anything to add to it, I'll keep updating. Great to see your progress on the BGS10


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## Vann (10 Dec 2021)

MilesH said:


> I may have confused you by posting on the Canadian & American websites. I live and work in London...


Ontario. 

Cheers, Vann.


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## MilesH (10 Dec 2021)

Good point Vann! I didn't consider that. Now it's understandable. I'll add UK to my profiles.


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> Getting the worm gear out can be frustrating! You need to remove the handle as you’ve identified and also the collar that’s held in place by a grub screw on the inside at the opposite side. Remove the pin from the worm gear. Clean all the rust off the shaft. Now try moving the worm gear…..it may well be stuck as the pin often bruises the hole in the shaft. Equally try to move the internal collar, the grub screw is likely to have knarled the shaft which needs sorting. We usually remove the external collar on the opposite external side to the handle and tap it from this side through, avoiding any possibility of damaging the threaded handle side. I would say about 1 in 10 we end up cutting the shaft and making a new one due to not being able to get the worm to slide.



Hi Deema, I took a closer look at it tonight and it does look like it will be easier to get out through the back of the saw. I took the handle and roll pin out already to fabricate a new handwheel, so that is already done. When I took the roll pin out of the worm on the raise/lower shaft I was having to get a little overly aggressive with the hammer and pin punch, so I ended up pressing it out. I might want to support the worm on this shaft somehow to prevent myself from doing something really stupid like bending the damn shaft or something... Given everything has come apart (relatively) easily so far, I'm going to be positive and say I probably won't have to cut this one out...  I'll let you know how that goes!


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> If you have a look on our thread about restoring a Wadkin BGS10 we go through how to disassemble/ assemble the spindle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love that BGS. I need to find myself one of those someday. I'll have to live vicariously though you and Miles for the moment though... will be a few more years before I can think of that.

I'm 100% not sure what you might mean about not putting pressure on the CI spindle bearing housing.... The only two choices -- I think-- for getting it off will be to press it off or find a bearing splitter that might fit between the rear blade flange and the housing and using that. Finding one that will fit and clear the mounting flange might be a problem though. Might be able to use the bearing splitter to press against the arbor press though.

I would think that the bearings should be tight on the shaft and only a strong slip fit into the housing itself if the WB design holds to general standards.

I'll have to wait for my metal shop class to start up again once I get it out and touch up the rear flange on the lathe. When you touch it up how many thou less do you keep the inner part that clamps on the blade? I noticed on my Dado nut that there isn't even an inner clamping surface which was interesting.


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> The motor probably needs to have its bearings changed, the front bearing is highly likely to be on its last legs. Typically we would in these circumstances run the motor from a VFD which produces a fully balanced output, however, it really needs the motor to have class F insulation for it to be used with an inverter.



Yes, I'm definitely going to swap the bearings. It was only in operation for a few years, but it spent that whole time running a very heavy custom carbide grooving blade (blade on top in Pic) and then it sat since about 1984/5 ish none of which is very good for bearings. I'm going to do it when I do the arbor.

I may eventually run this and the BER2 from VFDs, but for now I have a very high spec static phase converter that came with the BER2 that I'm turning into a balanced rotary phase converter, so it should work well.


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## deema (11 Dec 2021)

The spindle is designed to move in the housing to allow it to be aligned with the riving knife. With the side bolt removed and using something soft between the hammer and the end of the spindle you can tap it out. 
The Wadkin instructions ask you to tap it either in or out to align the blade to the riving knife and then tighten up the bolt. I go through how to assemble it in my thread.


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## deema (11 Dec 2021)

Have you thought about a digital phase converter? It’s like a VFD but replaces a static or rotary phase converter. KW/ KW output it will be I believe not much more than buying a motor to make your static into a rotary and far quieter. It can also brake machines if running just one


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

MilesH said:


> Hi Kevin,
> Just noticed you've been updating here. My AGS10 (1977). has the bronze bush in the rise & fall casting but the bore through the main casting is 20mm, no steel bush.



Hi Miles!
Hope all is well with you. Yes, I'll do some summary progress updates on the other sites as I get to certain points, but I figured there were way more people here that had direct experience with these WB saws and spindle moulders... and I'll definitely need some advice along the way. The WBs are pretty rare birds over here.

I'll get a better picture of mine, but it is definitely bushed on the main trunnion with some sort of a metal bushing. I am going to replace the bronze bushing on the other side as well as I don't like it being lose like that and I think there is too much slop between the bushing and the pin.



MilesH said:


> Have you had juddering/jumping problems because the rise and fall casting assembly doesn't fall under its own weight? I've had this from new with mine. I always attributed it to their hack design replacement of the gib strip system. Recently, I replaced the bronze bush and doing that showed up significant angular discrepancy between the slide surfaces of the two castings. At first, I thought that it was from post machining distortion of the castings but, having checked that, I now think it is a discrepancy between the pivot borings of the two castings. That's where I am, at the moment.



++++++1 Yes! Very same issue and it annoyed the hell out of me. After spraying copious quantiles of brake cleaner --to get the redwood dust and pitch out of the racks-- and then some PTFE in there, raising the blade was very smooth, but it would judder its way all the way down... I thought it was probably that "value engineering" gib plate as well. Although now that you mention it, I don't think slop in the pin helps the situation either.

Do you know if the old gib plate is retrofittable to these newer saws by any chance? I can't really find a good image of how the older system mounts to the trunnion so I'm not really sure if it is feasible. Barring that I'll have to think up some design. 



MilesH said:


> The problem with the rise & fall assembly not falling under its own weight is definitely misalignment between the two castings. The rise and fall works fine on my 1960 BGS but the saw spindle isn't perpendicular to the sliding table movement axis. This *is* more likely to be distortion of the rise & fall casting in the other plane, I think. There is a gap between the castings at the pivot with the slide surfaces mated. Not that impressed with the workmanship/QC at Durham. I had to replace my AGS spindle bearings after 6 months because they had been so badly fitted.......



Another issue might be the variable levels of friction between the two trunnions at different points in their arc.... I'm going to coat the machined surfaces with a mil-spec dry moly lube when I'm done cleaning them up. I think that with a new gib design and making sure there is no slop in the pin should go a long way to making the design work as intended. I did put the smaller trunnion on a surface plate and it seemed to be close to dead flat so at least it isn't twisted on this saw. Haven't checked the main trunnion yet.

KT


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> The spindle is designed to move in the housing to allow it to be aligned with the riving knife. With the side bolt removed and using something soft between the hammer and the end of the spindle you can tap it out.
> The Wadkin instructions ask you to tap it either in or out to align the blade to the riving knife and then tighten up the bolt. I go through how to assemble it in my thread.



Hi Deema,
Are you saying it is designed to be nudged *axially* or *laterally*? I assume you mean the former. In that case it sounds like it isn't in its housing very tight which should not create any undue stress getting it out. I have some soft rubber jaws on my Jawhorse (don't laugh, that thing has been silly handy I have to admit!) that should allow me to lightly grip the housing itself and then tap the arbor out using gravity as an aid. I'll have to re-read that bit in your thread.

Not sure why they wouldn't just want you to use spacers to align the riving knife to the blade instead of vice-versa. I'm going to be fabricating one of the "parallelogram" style riving knife assemblies for mine as it came with the stupid US spec splitter and I haven't been able to find a spare one for sale. I have a separate thread for that I'll document my progress on that bit.

I did find it interesting that the pulley sheave side of the arbor was stepped down. I'm going to switch mine to a poly-v belt and had thought I would need to fabricate a spacer, but it looks like that won't even be necessary. The pulley that was on there was on pretty tight, but came off without too much fuss.

thanks again for all the advice!
KT


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> Have you thought about a digital phase converter? It’s like a VFD but replaces a static or rotary phase converter. KW/ KW output it will be I believe not much more than buying a motor to make your static into a rotary and far quieter. It can also brake machines if running just one



Yes, but they are a bit spendy over here (for a good one at least). Not much of a variable between that and a nice VFD although that tends to not hold true when the HP of the motor starts to get above 4 or so HP.

Luckily good, second hand three phase motors can be found cheap here if you keep an eye out. Also, I've had a very kind offer from a fellow traveler on the old machine restoring road for an extremely high quality 10Hp 3phase motor for the sum total of $0 so my total out of pocket will be very reasonable for a nice rotary phase converter (have to buy some upgraded start caps and then some run caps to balance the legs..... those and some nice terminals should be the majority of the spend). The only challenge is that the 10hp motor might be too much for just a 3hp load, so I'll have to fuss with balancing the legs a bit more than I would want to... that and the motor is *extremely* portly... next to a modern motor it is laughably huge.... but, like I said, if you can ignore its weight issue its a beautifully built motor!

Also, this will let me run both my BER2 (4 hp) and this AGS, so at least in the short term it gets everything up and running with the minimum of cost.


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## KT_NorCal (11 Dec 2021)

Did get some progress done on some little things this week. The motor cover was pretty beat up and one of the seams had all its spot welds come undone sometime in the past, so I bashed all the edges straight and then spot welded it back together.

BTW, whatever this green paint is it is awful stuff. The only way to get it off cleanly is to blast it off. Chemically stripping it does work but leaves some very strange black coating or grime on the metal. If you try to burnish it off with one of those 3M paint remover wheels it basically melts and then clogs the wheel up like a latex paint would.

Anyway, I'm going to do the full monty on all of it with a proper industrial primer and top coat. Annoying as hell to do, but I do like me a pretty saw....


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## KT_NorCal (13 Dec 2021)

MilesH said:


> I've attached a spreadsheet I started, to track some of the changes to the AGS & BGS. If anyone has anything to add to it, I'll keep updating. Great to see your progress on the BGS10



Hi Miles,
Not sure if you want to add this or not, but the manual for this US saw I'm pretty sure says (can't find it at the moment) that both the threads on the back of the arbor and the cap head screw through the side of the arbor housing were BSW and/or BSF. I just checked them out of curiosity and they were both metric. The end threads are M16-2.0 and the one through the side is M10-1.5.

I thought I had read in another thread that these were the last legacy BSW thread items on the later AGS saws, but it does look like they eventually changed them all over.

KT


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## KT_NorCal (13 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> The only difference with yours is that the spindle is contained in a separate casting. What ever you do, DO NOT apply any pressure to the rotating cast iron collar on the spindle casting. This forms part of the rise and fall system and any pressure will distort it and cause it to bind or worse still crack. If you distort it you need to get it rebored.



Got the arbor out without too much trouble. It didn't want to tap out easily, so I put it in the arbor press and pressed it out... much less violent. It was a bit hung up internally... There were some burrs on the hole in the spacer and there were little gobs of hardened green paint in there. They pretty clearly attacked these things with a spray gun after they were assembled. There was some rust on the inside of the bore and outside of the spacer, but don't think that was hanging anything up.

Also, I had taped over the inside mating face on the flange before I glass bead blasted the outside of the arbor housing and when I took it off I realized there were blobs of hardened green paint on that face as well which definitely couldn't have been helpful keeping the blade aligned. Cleaned it all off with a soft wire brush on my hand drill and some acetone and then ospho'd the inside of the bore, so all ready for some new paint when the rain stops coming down in sheets. Also cleaned up some jaggy casting artifacts for no other reason that being OCD about it.


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## KT_NorCal (14 Dec 2021)

Does anyone happen to know what the correct size for the retaining clip that goes in this groove is? I'm hoping it isn't a custom sized one, but am not holding my breath...


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## KT_NorCal (16 Dec 2021)

Realized tonight that the end of the arbor housing isn't even close to machined even. Looks like it was just filed at the factory. How do you set the end berings as there is no stop. The only limiting factor is that the bolt though the side has a limit defined by the hole in the spacer, but I have to assume there was some initial factory setting for the spindle assembly when it was pressed into the housing....


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## deema (16 Dec 2021)

Nope, it’s designed to ‘float’ and you set the spindle to the splitter / riving knife. It’s actually a good design.


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## Gremmy (30 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> If you have a look on our thread about restoring a Wadkin BGS10 we go through how to disassemble/ assemble the spindle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hey Deema - just an FYI - the flange being machined from a solid piece was not my experience when taking apart my spindle housing. 
I managed to actually remove the the flange by using a bearing puller. This wasn’t my intention, I was tired andwasn’t thinking and had set up my operation in reverse. I don’t unfortunately have any pics of the evidence, but warmed the flange and put the shaft in the freezer to reassemble.


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## deema (30 Dec 2021)

That’s really useful to know, I have a couple of saws waiting patiently for TLC, I’m going to check each if those spindles very carefully To see if they are two pieces. Has you saw a fixed riving knife or dies it move up and down with the blade, just to get a perspective on what it’s vintage is. Thanks for posting


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## Gremmy (30 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> That’s really useful to know, I have a couple of saws waiting patiently for TLC, I’m going to check each if those spindles very carefully To see if they are two pieces. Has you saw a fixed riving knife or dies it move up and down with the blade, just to get a perspective on what it’s vintage is. Thanks for posting



it was a fixed splitter but I subsequently bought a newer trunnion with Riving knife.


deema said:


> That’s really useful to know, I have a couple of saws waiting patiently for TLC, I’m going to check each if those spindles very carefully To see if they are two pieces. Has you saw a fixed riving knife or dies it move up and down with the blade, just to get a perspective on what it’s vintage is. Thanks for posting



Hey no problems, all about sharing snippets of info, your posts helped me massively -

was a fixed splitter but got a new trunnion and a Riving knife assembly as was peed off with having to adjust the splitter all the time.


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## KT_NorCal (31 Dec 2021)

Gremmy said:


> it was a fixed splitter but I subsequently bought a newer trunnion with Riving knife.



What did your splitter look like? The one that came on my US spec saw attached to the rear of the main trunnion and as far as I could tell it was just a pain because the original owner of my saw clearly just took it off immediately and never used it because it was in pristine condition. It only tilted with the blade. It didn't actually move.


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## KT_NorCal (31 Dec 2021)

Got the first bit back together. I modified a set of Delta Unisaw handwheels to replace the jive 70s die cast ones that came on my saw (one was wallowed out as well). I also replaced the manky roll pin that the handles engaged with (and was bent up from the hand wheel) with a solid pin I hand knurled, so it is pretty easy to take out.

I also did finally get the cant worm shaft out of the tub. I had to buy a nice set of roll pin punches to get them out as they were a pain. The dude at the factory who put this saw together didn't cover himself in glory. The pin in the worm was broken because he tried to drive it in with the hole off-center several times. You can see where it dinged up the shaft. also, the one in the end was peened over which was very unhelpful.


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## KT_NorCal (31 Dec 2021)

Anyone have any idea what these washers are called. They are thicker than regular washers and they have a nice bevel on one side. I didn't realize it until I took the second handwheel off but the previous owner clearly lost one and just replaced it with an imperial one that didn't fit right...


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## deema (31 Dec 2021)

I haven’t found an off the shelf exact replacement, just made them. You look to have a lathe.


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## KT_NorCal (31 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> I haven’t found an off the shelf exact replacement, just made them. You look to have a lathe.



Actually, I took at night metal shop class at the local junior college just so I could fix this saw.  Wish I had room for a lathe! I guess I'll have to make one next semester....


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## Vann (31 Dec 2021)

KT_NorCal said:


> Anyone have any idea what these washers are called. They are thicker than regular washers and they have a nice bevel on one side. I didn't realize it until I took the second handwheel off but the previous owner clearly lost one and just replaced it with an imperial one that didn't fit right...
> 
> View attachment 125506
> 
> ...


I don't know what they're called either, but they're very nice washers and found on Wadkins waaaay older than yours. Ì think Wadkin made their own nuts and washers, and bolts too no doubt. 

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (2 Jan 2022)

Gremmy said:


> it was a fixed splitter but I subsequently bought a newer trunnion with Riving knife.
> 
> Hey no problems, all about sharing snippets of info, your posts helped me massively -
> 
> was a fixed splitter but got a new trunnion and a Riving knife assembly as was peed off with having to adjust the splitter all the time.



HI Gremmy, 
Do you have any close-up pictures of the riving knife "hub" that goes around the arbor housing? Especially how it is retained on there. My arbor housing has that groove (in one of the above pictures) that I assumed took some kind of a retaining clip, but on yours it looks like it is covered up...
Kevin


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## KT_NorCal (2 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> I don't know what they're called either, but they're very nice washers and found on Wadkins waaaay older than yours. Ì think Wadkin made their own nuts and washers, and bolts too no doubt.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.


Hi Vann,
You wouldn't happen to have any extra this size would you?  

Sort of dread the idea of having to just make something like that on a lathe. Takes forever and is the definition of fiddley. 

I did find some washers labelled "machined washers" but couldn't find any other pics or info on them other than that they are obviously machined, Hoping that might be a quick and dirty solution especially since I spot faced both handwheels to exactly fit the original one....

KT


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## KT_NorCal (2 Jan 2022)

The cant shaft is fully apart and I cleaned up the burrs from where the meathead at the factory tried to hammer the roll pin though the solid bar. The shaft itself doesn't seem to be bent... its not perfectly flat, but its close enough.

Cleaned up the burrs on the various stops as well. Interestingly the outer rear one and the one with the grub screw were both cold blued. I'll re-blue them as I think they look nice. The citric acid dip tends to ruin the bluing. Seems like an interesting thing for the factory to do. They had rust on them, but a lot less than the unblued one, so hey it helped a bit.


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## KT_NorCal (2 Jan 2022)

Also, here is some pretty good evidence that the idea of using pin spanners (i.e. steel rods in this case) to lock the arbor is not the best idea. I was taking measurements of the arbor before I brought it over to a friend's to get the bearings and whatnot off and I could see that the back of the blade flange was actually distorted behind one of these holes. Flipped it over and ran an indicator on it and at both those points the outer part of that flange is 5 tho out of whack to the rest of it... will definitely have to skim this on the lathe... annoying.


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## deema (2 Jan 2022)

The condition of your spindle face is in my experience the norm rather than the exception. I have to refinish every single spindle


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## KT_NorCal (4 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> The condition of your spindle face is in my experience the norm rather than the exception. I have to refinish every single spindle



It's a bummer, but I was going to make a custom outer flange for 12" blades anyway, so I might as well plan on spending quality time on the whole spindle.... Also, the dado nut is similarly bunged up, so I'm going to assume I'll need to skim that as well. 

Just to make work for myself and given the extra space on the arbor, I'm thinking of putting a heavier duty front bearing on as well, so I need to deal with the rubbish machining on the front of the cast iron arbor housing as well. That way I will know exactly how much room I have to work with.

The other resto-mod will be swapping the triple belt pulley sheaves out for continuous ribbed belt ones. They are about 100x smoother than v belts and won't take a set. Will also give me a chance to up the RPM of the spindle from the 3400rpm it's running at now. 

Making work for yourself is always a good way to get though a project.


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## deema (4 Jan 2022)

That will certainly make it a super saw. Will be following with interest how you get along.


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## Vann (6 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> Hi Vann,
> You wouldn't happen to have any extra this size would you?...



Hi KT. Sorry, just got back from holiday. Could you advise: OD, ID and thickness please and I'll have a look through my bits and pieces.

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (7 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> Hi KT. Sorry, just got back from holiday. Could you advise: OD, ID and thickness please and I'll have a look through my bits and pieces.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



Hi Vann,
I was mostly just moaning, but if you actually had a spare or so I don't think I would turn it down! I measured it and in true WB weirdness, it's meant to go over the 10-1.25 threaded handwheel shafts and therefore has an ID of 10.3mm (or close... my calipers aren't spectacular), but it has an imperial OD of 1.240 inches and imperial thickness of exactly 1/8 or 0.1275 inches.... go figure.


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## deema (9 Jan 2022)

Gremmy said:


> Hey Deema - just an FYI - the flange being machined from a solid piece was not my experience when taking apart my spindle housing.
> I managed to actually remove the the flange by using a bearing puller. This wasn’t my intention, I was tired andwasn’t thinking and had set up my operation in reverse. I don’t unfortunately have any pics of the evidence, but warmed the flange and put the shaft in the freezer to reassemble.



Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.


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## KT_NorCal (9 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.


I assume you pressed it off over the front of the arbor?


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## deema (9 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> I assume you pressed it off over the front of the arbor?


Yes, it was a very tight interference fit.


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## KT_NorCal (10 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> Yes, it was a very tight interference fit.



Good to know. I'm going to leave it on since I need to true up the face, but if the arbor is out at all and I need to bash it back into true at least I know it will come off. Took the measurment to the face of from the front to the end of the arbor so at least I would know how far to press it back on.


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## Gremmy (10 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> HI Gremmy,
> Do you have any close-up pictures of the riving knife "hub" that goes around the arbor housing? Especially how it is retained on there. My arbor housing has that groove (in one of the above pictures) that I assumed took some kind of a retaining clip, but on yours it looks like it is covered up...
> Kevin


Hi Kevin,

sorry about the delayed response.. I didn’t get any notification that you’d asked me anything, have played around with my settings and now receive updates.

regarding my spindle housing, it didn’t have a recessed groove, just plain- see photo, no groove for a circlip.





KT_NorCal said:


> What did your splitter look like? The one that came on my US spec saw attached to the rear of the main trunnion and as far as I could tell it was just a pain because the original owner of my saw clearly just took it off immediately and never used it because it was in pristine condition. It only tilted with the blade. It didn't actually move.



yeah my original splitter was a pain - had to adjust constantly - I fabricated it from a template of a Riving knife used for the rise fall type. I cut it down to allow shallow cuts, useful for trenching work. (I have a crown guard suspended above from a fabricated frame work arm)

before you can see how at low blade height how far away from the blade the splitter is (I was worried it might pinch as I use semi air dried stock quite regularly)
Now hopefully much safer


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## Gremmy (10 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> Gremmy, you are absolutely right, I tried one today, and it did indeed come off. Really appreciated the heads up.



Hey Deema - no worries at all. Glad my unintended discovery is of some use.

I’ve a question for you (sorry for thread hijack Kevin) how do you tighten your nut and grip the flange when changing blades? I’ve got a few C spanners and they don’t fit into the round hole in the flange, I’ve ground one down but there just isn’t the space to get purchase. 
I’m ashamed to say that I have resorted to putting a 9.5mm drill bit shaft into the flange hole while using a spanner on the nut.. but I can see that this will potentially distort the hole as per previous photos Kevin put up over time and warp the face..


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## deema (10 Jan 2022)

Hi Gremmy,
I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do, ie 12 / 18mm ply for example I then just untighten the nut (keeping anything fleshy away from the blade) the wood stops the blade turning. Unfortunately the Wadkin blade lock design isn’t very good, pressure in the hole distorts the flange by bruising the metal, and your blade won’t run true.
One good turn deserves another, if you message me your address, when we make another steel spindle lock (fancy name for a stick of metal of the correct diameter to fit the hole with a knurled handle) I will make one for you and send it over with my thanks. Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.


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## Gremmy (10 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> Hi Gremmy,
> I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do, ie 12 / 18mm ply for example I then just untighten the nut (keeping anything fleshy away from the blade) the wood stops the blade turning. Unfortunately the Wadkin blade lock design isn’t very good, pressure in the hole distorts the flange by bruising the metal, and your blade won’t run true.
> One good turn deserves another, if you message me your address, when we make another steel spindle lock (fancy name for a stick of metal of the correct diameter to fit the hole with a knurled handle) I will make one for you and send it over with my thanks. Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.




Hi Deema,

many thanks for the advice - I use a piece of timber when undoing the blade, but tightening is where I struggle. Ive had a blade slip a few times under use due to poor tightening. Scared myself so using the drill bit shaft at present. I can see how using a piece of timber at the back of the blade would certainly work in the same way as how I loosen the blade. The nut is probably getting worn and impossible to replace (12 tpi square thread @5/8th inch..) and into the £100’s to have someone machine up a replacement and they’d probably need the arbour for checking..
I’ll gladly take you up on the offer, message on route

Best


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## KT_NorCal (12 Jan 2022)

Gremmy said:


> regarding my spindle housing, it didn’t have a recessed groove, just plain- see photo, no groove for a circlip.



Hi Gremmy,
Ah, I was confused as to how it maintains its position on the arbor housing, but after looking at the pictures I guess that entire framework is anchored to the trunnion in two places and unlike the "parallelogram" style is rigid so it probably doesn't need it.



Gremmy said:


> yeah my original splitter was a pain - had to adjust constantly - I fabricated it from a template of a Riving knife used for the rise fall type. I cut it down to allow shallow cuts, useful for trenching work. (I have a crown guard suspended above from a fabricated frame work arm)
> 
> before you can see how at low blade height how far away from the blade the splitter is (I was worried it might pinch as I use semi air dried stock quite regularly)
> Now hopefully much safer



Yea, this splitter on mine was actually mounted even farther back than yours was and given the optimum thickness of a riving knife is somewhere between the plate thickness and the kerf thickness it was doubly potentially useless given how thin it is. The original owner of my saw probably made the exact same assessment I made when he got the saw and promptly took it off. 

My hope is to find a proper UK style crown guard for one of these AGS10s for a reasonable amount of cash. My intention is to make a few riving knifes to match a few different blades and then also one that works with an original style crown guard, so we'll see how that turns out....

Also, great minds apparently think alike... I'm also planning on putting a clown nose kill switch in exactly the same place as you put one on your mobile base and I'm also intending to build a miter bench (for my Delta RAS) that will allow me to nest both the table saw and the minimax FS35 jointer/thicknesser under it!

KT


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## KT_NorCal (12 Jan 2022)

Gremmy said:


> Hey Deema - no worries at all. Glad my unintended discovery is of some use.
> 
> I’ve a question for you (sorry for thread hijack Kevin)



Not a problem at all.... all useful info!



Gremmy said:


> I’m ashamed to say that I have resorted to putting a 9.5mm drill bit shaft into the flange hole while using a spanner on the nut.. but I can see that this will potentially distort the hole as per previous photos Kevin put up over time and warp the face..



I'm not sure what the holes were originally, but if you need something that is a closer fit and gives you some length look for some "drill rod." Its usually made from high quality steel and should fit the hole better without as much slop. They also generally come in lengths that are perfect for this sort of thing.




Gremmy said:


> Hi Deema,
> The nut is probably getting worn and impossible to replace (12 tpi square thread @5/8th inch..) and into the £100’s to have someone machine up a replacement and they’d probably need the arbour for checking..
> I’ll gladly take you up on the offer, message on route
> Best



It does sound like your arbor nut is a probably pretty worn if you are having to crank it down that much. I don't know if the Delta Unisaw was ever sold over your side of the pond, but if you can find an arbor nut for one they are basically a perfect fit. My saw only came with the "dado nut" and was missing its arbor nut, but it turns out that the Unisaw nut fit just fine on it. I suspect they are the exact same thread type. There was a thread on this site that discussed the thread in depth if you do a search for it.

KT


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## Vann (12 Jan 2022)

deema said:


> I don’t is the best answer, I use what I believe is the old timers trick. I stick a piece of wood into the blade, anything fairly thin will do...
> 
> ...Useful to release the nut in the very rare occassions the blade slips in the flanges.



For my Wadkin PK I've resorted to using the pin. I've had all my blades drilled to take the pin to avoid any issues with blade slippage. 

I'm about to do the same with my Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I don't know if any of the Wadkin-Bursgreen saws had that facility. 

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (12 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> For my Wadkin PK I've resorted to using the pin. I've had all my blades drilled to take the pin to avoid any issues with blade slippage.
> 
> I'm about to do the same with my Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I don't know if any of the Wadkin-Bursgreen saws had that facility.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



Hi Vann,
Are you talking about the locating pin like there is a hole for in the trenching heads?

I've often wondered it the heads were meant to match a hole in the flange or not and someone I know over here said his Wadkin Bursgreen BRA radial arm saw did have a hole in the inner flange, so I assume one would be threaded into that and then the trenching heads mounted on that way? Is there outer flange set up with a matching hole for the pin by any chance? 

KT


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## deema (12 Jan 2022)

It would be unusual for the blade to slip, even with fairly light tightening pressure, I just nip them. The act of turning the saw off tightens the nut up. My personal saw runs a 450mm blade without a driving pin and doesn’t slip.
The main reason usually for a slipping blades is that the flanges are not flat, and there is only a couple of points in contact with the blade.


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## Fitzroy (12 Jan 2022)

My AGS10 blade slipped when I first got it and I found that the outer flange had become dished due to over tightening, so it had limited contact with the blade. Having 'undished' it and flattened it on a sanding plate I've never had any slippage issues. I hold the blade in a gloved hand and nip the nut up, that is really all it takes on my saw.


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## Vann (13 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> Hi Vann,
> Are you talking about the locating pin like there is a hole for in the trenching heads?



I don't know if it's the same pin location as used for trenching heads - but this is the arrangement on my 1936 Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I had to remove the blade guard for these photos as this early model doesn't have a hinged door (instead the entire cover is rotated and lifted off - a PITA, and probably the reason for a change in design shortly after)

Back flange, showing spindle and driving pin.





Blade placed on spindle.




Front flange and nut fitted. There is a hole in the front flange for the pin.







Deema said:


> It would be unusual for the blade to slip, even with fairly light tightening pressure, I just nip them. The act of turning the saw off tightens the nut up. My personal saw runs a 450mm blade without a driving pin and doesn’t slip...



I had a cow of a job getting the blade off this 1946 CK (that had stood in the rain for ~10 years before I got it). Once I got the nut half a turn the blade slipped and I had nothing to lever against.




Note the MDF benchtop!! I bought this one for parts. Surprisingly the motor still worked!!

As I don't use my gear much it's sometimes over a year between blade changes. I'm worried that over that sort of time the nut may seize - and have to be cut off . So I've re-fitted drive pins to my CK and PK.

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (13 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> I don't know if it's the same pin location as used for trenching heads - but this is the arrangement on my 1936 Wadkin CK radial arm saw. I had to remove the blade guard for these photos as this early model doesn't have a hinged door (instead the entire cover is rotated and lifted off - a PITA, and probably the reason for a change in design shortly after)
> 
> Back flange, showing spindle and driving pin.
> 
> ...



Hi Vann,
First of all, Wadkin was apparently serious about their blade flanges... they look the size of dinner plates! Interesting.... So the pin dead ends into the outer blade flange? At least from the picture it looks like it doesn't go all the way through which sort of requires you to use custom pins depending on what blades you are running. Are the pins threaded in or do they just slot into a non-though hole in the inner flange?

And thanks for taking that picture, sorry If it created a hassle getting the thing apart!

Not sure the measurements are on that CK, but the trenching heads (these are 1" arbor) about 0.2045 inches between the outer arbor edge and the inner pin edge. Was hard to measure accurately as the pin seems to be an oddball size (0.3455 or about 11/16) and I didn't have anything that fit it tightly.










Vann said:


> As I don't use my gear much it's sometimes over a year between blade changes. I'm worried that over that sort of time the nut may seize - and have to be cut off . So I've re-fitted drive pins to my CK and PK.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



In the past I've used paraffin/spirits mixture on threads I was worried about being able to get apart again at some undetermined point in the future. You would just have to remember to not crank down hard on it... like putting antiseize on spark plugs... just have to back off the torque a bit..


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## Vann (13 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> Hi Vann,
> First of all, Wadkin was apparently serious about their blade flanges... they look the size of dinner plates! Interesting.... So the pin dead ends into the outer blade flange? At least from the picture it looks like it doesn't go all the way through which sort of requires you to use custom pins depending on what blades you are running. Are the pins threaded in or do they just slot into a non-though hole in the inner flange?



The PK has a 1.25" spindle. The pin is 1/2" and threads into the inner flange (1/2"BSW). The hole in the outer flange goes right through.

The CK has an inch spindle. The pin is smaller (it's bedtime here so I'm not going out to measure right now) and again threaded into the inner flange. The outer flange again has a through hole (must be hidden in my photo).

I'll measure the CK tomorrow, as IIRC your saw spindle is also one inch, so possibly similar.

Cheers, Vann.


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## KT_NorCal (14 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> The PK has a 1.25" spindle. The pin is 1/2" and threads into the inner flange (1/2"BSW). The hole in the outer flange goes right through.
> 
> The CK has an inch spindle. The pin is smaller (it's bedtime here so I'm not going out to measure right now) and again threaded into the inner flange. The outer flange again has a through hole (must be hidden in my photo).
> 
> ...



That 1' bar sticking out of the arbor hole on the trenching heads isn't acutally the arbor in question, just a hold down support from an old Delta Unisaw sliding table attachment that coincidentally was a machined 1" diameter rod... That said the Delta 40B that they will be used on is a 1 inch arbor so probably similar class as your CK although it's a "turret" design RAS so a bit more compact than the CK and maybe not as heavily built. 

When I restore it I was planning on modifying the inner flange (and outer as well I guess) to accept a proper sized pin. Not sure how the inner flange on this saw is mounted yet... if it's easily removed then maybe I'll just make a bespoke set of flanges for the trenching heads and dado sets. Might be able to get a little more real estate that way as well... the arbor is a bit shorter than that CK arbor from the look of it.

Attached a pic of one... not mine, but hopefully mine looks similar when I'm done with it.


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## Vann (18 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> ...The CK has an inch spindle. The pin is smaller (it's bedtime here so I'm not going out to measure right now) and again threaded into the inner flange. The outer flange again has a through hole (must be hidden in my photo).
> 
> I'll measure the CK tomorrow, as IIRC your saw spindle is also one inch, so possibly similar.


The pin I have is 1/4" but it's loose and I suspect it should be 5/16" - but don't have time to check it out at present. The spindle and pin are at 7/8" crs.

The pin has a slotted end - visible in this pikkie.






Cheers, Vann.


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## clogs (18 Jan 2022)

on my old big'un Wadkin the pin was just a slide fit in the blade and a little tighter on the shaft hub....guess, so it didnt fall in the rubbish inside the saw.....
When I lived in France and bought new blades locally I had to drill my own hole in the new blade for the pin....
I thought my pin was about 3/8ths diameter.....but I am getting old....
We used to call those pins shear, guide or drive pins.....of course they would never shear in that particular job....


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## KT_NorCal (22 Jan 2022)

Vann said:


> The pin I have is 1/4" but it's loose and I suspect it should be 5/16" - but don't have time to check it out at present. The spindle and pin are at 7/8" crs.
> 
> The pin has a slotted end - visible in this pikkie.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



Ahhh. Ok. All makes sense now... and rubbish. I totally forgot about the arbor nut as it will definitely interfere with any pin given the spacing. So, custom length threaded pins will definitely be needed...

Once I get back to my nighttime shop class I'll get an inside micrometer on the holes in the trenching heads and get a good measurement. The pin is obviously only meant to be a loose slip fit, so I can work back from that.


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## KT_NorCal (26 Jan 2022)

I went over to a friend's place today to try and get the bearings, spacer, etc., off the arbor and even with his huge arbor press it didn't want to budge. Just to make sure I was doing the right thing, per the pic below, this whole mess is supposed to come off the back, correct?

We put a bearing splitter behind that bearing up against the rear of the blade flange and used that to anchor it on the arbor press to press against. It really didn't want to come off to the point it looked like the arbor was starting to flex. Not wanting to bend the arbor we quit while we were still ahead of the game. Is there any specific technique others have used for this? 

Honestly never run up against an arbor that a standard arbor press was not able to press off the bearings with ease (my friend's is taller than me and I'm 6'2"), so I'm a bit stumped and don't want to mess up the arbor as it had pretty much nill run-out.

Thanks for any thoughts.


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## Gremmy (26 Jan 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> I went over to a friend's place today to try and get the bearings, spacer, etc., off the arbor and even with his huge arbor press it didn't want to budge. Just to make sure I was doing the right thing, per the pic below, this whole mess is supposed to come off the back, correct?
> 
> We put a bearing splitter behind that bearing up against the rear of the blade flange and used that to anchor it on the arbor press to press against. It really didn't want to come off to the point it looked like the arbor was starting to flex. Not wanting to bend the arbor we quit while we were still ahead of the game. Is there any specific technique others have used for this?
> 
> ...



Hey you are correct that this is how it all comes apart. Might be a silly question but you’ve undone the grub screw(s) in the end collar? See my photo.
Give the collar a whack with a wooden drift to break any surface bond if it’s slightly corroded onto the shaft.


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## KT_NorCal (26 Jan 2022)

Hi Gremmy, yes for sure, I took them completely out (and even squirted in some ATF/acetone in both at the time). I'm probably going to heat cycle that back retaining ring as it does look like it is on there quite tight. There is really no corrosion on this arbor at all... as it looks in the pics is the way it came out of the saw, so I don't think that is it.

I had a ponder when I got home and what I think is happening is that the arbor is flexing a bit under pressure and it's basically locking the whole assembly together as a result. I'm not sure we had it exactly centered on the arbor press because of the bearing splitter which I think contributed to the issue.

I'll have access to a large "H" press again in a couple weeks where I'll be able to align it precisely, so I'll heat cycle it a few times and have a go at it again.

Worse comes to worse I'll destroy the bearings and pull the bits off individually, but that is an annoying amount of work for something that should be straightforward!


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## KT_NorCal (18 Feb 2022)

So, that was a pain. The bearings did not want to come off this stupid AGS arbor. As I said before I tried it on my friend's massive arbor press and it didn't want to budge. Plan B was a big hydraulic H press.... that didn't work either. The arbor was starting to flex so I quit that while I was still ahead... Plan C was to cut the rear bearing off and try pull everything off piece by piece which is what finally worked.

The bearings were on this thing insanely tight.... I measured the areas under the bearings at 17.02mm in back and 17.03mm in front. Bearing races were 17mm even. Also the arbor is bizarrely recessed between the bearing seats (part with blue tape in the pic)... it measured 16.92mm. Have zero concept of why they would do that. Anyone know?

Cutting the outer race. Managed to not score up the bits around it too badly.





Race broken off.... notice there is ZERO evidence of any grease in the bearing. Why you should always make the effort on these old saws.





The shrapnel.








Getting the final bearing off. What I don't show is that it also took a 5k degree carburizing flame to get the inner race hot enough to get just a few mm of movement. Then I was able to get thicker steel under it and get it the rest of the way off.











The arbor cleaned up ok, but I'm not sure why they designed it to have them so insanely tight. This must expand the inner race so I'll have to make sure that is in spec for the replacements.

The rear bearing was clearly destroyed, but the front one was:
94P - FRANCE - SNR6203 E1

I'm going to assume they are both the same, but is this the same bearing that others have swapped out?

Thanks!


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## deema (18 Feb 2022)

I use 6203 2RS with a couple of shim washers to replicate the original bearings.
Getting the spindle apart can be challenging on occasions. Well done fir getting there.


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## KT_NorCal (18 Feb 2022)

Also did some more prep work on the arbor housing. I turned it flat as it looked like someone attacked it with a file at the factory. I'm drawing up the bits I'm going to have to make to make a working parallelogram style riving knife so I wanted to have a surface that was referenceable. While I was at it I cleaned up the bolt hole a bit as it was clearly just filed and the bolt only had one small point to seat against.








Also measured the face of the flange with a very accurate gauge. The inner seat ring was only out 0.0005 at one point, but the outer seat ring was a mess. Out at both points where the outer flange pin holes are deformed by 5 thou... bad enough that you can rock the removable outer flange across them... and not much better anywhere else. I'll clean them up on the lathe next week.

I lapped the face of the outer flange... it was a mess too. I'll grind that completely flat next week as there is no real easy way to chuck it up in a lathe.

The Dado arbor nut face is a mess as well... also out 5 thou at both pin holes.... so I'll lap that as well.


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## KT_NorCal (18 Feb 2022)

deema said:


> I use 6203 2RS with a couple of shim washers to replicate the original bearings.
> Getting the spindle apart can be challenging on occasions. Well done fir getting there.



Thanks for all the info/help along the way! 

Why would you need the shims?


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## deema (18 Feb 2022)

The shims just push the bearings back a smidge from the flange and position the spindle correctly to allow the right amount of adjustment to be available for alignment of the spindle to the riving knife.


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## KT_NorCal (18 Feb 2022)

deema said:


> The shims just push the bearings back a smidge from the flange and position the spindle correctly to allow the right amount of adjustment to be available for alignment of the spindle to the riving knife.



Ah, are they thinner than the ones on there or is that just a mod to get you some additional space? 

I am thinking of upgrading the bearings a bit as there is a little leeway given the measurements involved.


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## deema (18 Feb 2022)

The original bearings would have been 88503, however, I have always found them very very difficult to source, they are basically the 6203 with an extended inner race. So, to arrive back at the original dimensions, I add 2.2mm shim washers (2mm and a 0.2mm) to the front and rear bearing, you don’t need any between the two bearings as the spacer rests against the outer races.


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## Lefley (19 Feb 2022)

I love reading the way people take things apart and fix, I’ve had a metal lathe on my list of things to buy. Almost bought one many times but it was always the China model and I always chickened out knowing a metal lathe should have tight tolerances and China would not be in that sentence. So I keep looking for a used American or other type non Chinese lathe.


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## KT_NorCal (20 Feb 2022)

deema said:


> The original bearings would have been 88503, however, I have always found them very very difficult to source, they are basically the 6203 with an extended inner race. So, to arrive back at the original dimensions, I add 2.2mm shim washers (2mm and a 0.2mm) to the front and rear bearing, you don’t need any between the two bearings as the spacer rests against the outer races.



I'm 100% sure these are original for this saw, so they likely used 6203s in these later saws. The big issue is that with shaft measurements of 0.670" under the bearings these are way out of spec with such a heavy interference fit unless you go all the way to the far end of the scale. What I'm guessing is that they were looking to get a much more accurate running bearing without actually using expensive bearings.... so, these by nature would have run quite hot in a production setting.

For instance, assuming a few things you get a variance for a 17mm shaft of between +0.001mm and +0.009 for an interference fit that keeps the bearings in spec.... and this shaft measures in at 17.18mm.... ???

No wonder they were a pain to take off.

This also means that if you do use one of these saws in a production setting (cabinet shop or some such), you should really plan on changing bearings every few years at a minimum...


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## deema (20 Feb 2022)

My error, your absolutely correct, I was giving the wrong generation. They spindle on yours was designed for 6203 bearings. When we find ‘Friday’ manufacturing problems, we just machine / correct the errors, it’s all part of the fun of restoring old iron to ‘better’ than they were originally made. It looks like the shaft doesn’t have a waist to allow the inner bearing to slip freely to its journal when it’s over the outer journal. If it hadn’t, I would add one, makes life far easier. I would also machine the journals to the correct fit tolerances.


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## KT_NorCal (20 Feb 2022)

deema said:


> My error, your absolutely correct, I was giving the wrong generation. They spindle on yours was designed for 6203 bearings. When we find ‘Friday’ manufacturing problems, we just machine / correct the errors, it’s all part of the fun of restoring old iron to ‘better’ than they were originally made. It looks like the shaft doesn’t have a waist to allow the inner bearing to slip freely to its journal when it’s over the outer journal. If it hadn’t, I would add one, makes life far easier. I would also machine the journals to the correct fit tolerances.



If anyone has one of these arbors out of their machine I would definitely be interested to see what measurements you have....

Deema, not 100% sure what you are referring to as far as the waist goes, but this is for sure out of spec for really any 6203 bearing (even C4 clearance bearings... assuming I did my sums right) where the bearings are supposed to seat. There is a clearance between the two bearing seat areas so if you look at the measurements from the back (where the belt sheave would be seated it runs (in imperial) 0.6295" then to the bearing seat at 0.670" then it is recessed some at 0.666" then back to 0.670" at the front bearing seat.

These are also tolerances that are not very easy to machine to. Especially given that the arbor isn't truly perfect in that there is some run out at various points.

I would be looking to machine something that needed to be taken from 17.18mm to 17.01... at the most (or least, as it were)... and not a smidge over. I have access to a Myford cylindrical grinder, but have never used it, so very likely it would be easier for me to machine a whole new arbor/spindle.... although even that would be an interesting challenge for me (given my middling at best skill level).

Oy.


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## deema (20 Feb 2022)

It will have been machined between centres, you may be able to pick these up again by a bit of careful cleaning around the edges of the centre drilled holes and then just touch up the journals. Yep the waist is the dip between the journals, it looked not to have one. If you’ve access to a cylindrical grinder you’ve got the perfect machine for resolving the problem.


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## OCtoolguy (22 Feb 2022)

KT_NorCal said:


> Hi All,
> I'm from over in the States and this is my first post here although I've been reading through some old threads plus using the search function for several weeks trying to gather as much background info as possible on an AGS10 I recently purchased as well as a WB BER2 I picked up several months ago.
> 
> The AGS I just picked up is a 79 that was purchased new out here in California. I'm the second owner which I think is cool. The previous owner was a private business that made lighting fixtures from California Redwood and this was just one of several Wadkin Bursgreen saws they had bought. One of the other ones is a crazy scary looking gang-rip saw (or "multi-rip" BSW I think it was called) with seven or eight very large blades on it... and a 40HP electric motor... this AGS was at the other end of the scale!
> ...


I know this doesn't have anything to do with your questions or your saw but I just thought I'd let you know that you have a "neighbor" down here in Southern California, Huntington Beach, to be exact. Nice to meet a fellow American here on the U.K. thread. I enjoy reading everything here especially the joke thread. I have to copy and paste many of them on my Facebook page. We watch almost nothing but Brit tv. Best ever. Good luck with your project saw. I wish I was a bit closer to you so I could come over and help/watch your progress.


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## KT_NorCal (5 Mar 2022)

Did some clean up on the blade flange. It was pretty much a mess as noted before, so it should be way more accurate at this point. Before, you could actually rock the removable flange across the inner flange where the two pin spanner holes are. Ended up taking the outer ring down -0.008 in (only the last 0.002 were consistent across the flange) and the inner ring -0.002 in. Now you can hardly tell where the two join which makes me happy (I cleaned up the outside diameter of everything as well... also the dado arbor nut). Bummer was the tool picked up a burr or some swarf that I didn't notice until I took everything out and cleaned the oil and gunk off, so will have to do a final, final finish pass next week. This saw was relatively unabused, so this process does seem like a worthy process to go through on these older saws to get the best accuracy out of them.

Still doing some research about how to set up the arbor bearings so they run a bit of pre-load as the slightly oddball arbor set up on this saw potentially will allow for that to be done...


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## KT_NorCal (5 Mar 2022)

OCtoolguy said:


> Good luck with your project saw. I wish I was a bit closer to you so I could come over and help/watch your progress.



Thanks for the good thoughts! I would have to say that watching this process might not be that fun as it mostly seems to consist of me standing around staring at parts trying to figure out something and then using inventive curse words.


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## KT_NorCal (4 Jun 2022)

Figured I should update this.... Finished the "updates" to the WB AGS arbor/flanges/etc. Things take a surprising amount of time when you can't really chance messing something up.  Also, I'm in the middle of stripping all the cabinets of the nasty green paint and that seems to take forever as well. My theory is this is the one time this is ever going to happen for this saw so I might as well do it right. Using a mix of the lame chemical paint stripper we have available these days and a media blast cabinet. I've also fabricated a "floor" for the saw as it was open before. I'm eventually going to fab a blade flask for dust management, but that is a semi-complex thing given the way the internal bits are arranged, so I fabricated an external dust port and I'm going to try and close the cabinet up as much as possible for now.

I've also started painting the internal/trunnion bits and some various small pieces which I was able to get fully stripped so far. Interior is going to be white (really liked the idea of being able to actually see what is going on inside). Outside is going to be a mix of the earlier Wadkin gloss dark grey with all the various attached bits satin black.

For the arbor ended up doing the following in the effort to make the saw as accurate as possible.
1. Cleaned up the inner blade flange which was a mess.
2. Cleaned up the Dado nut, which was a mess as well from being monkeyed with a pin spanner that didn't fit
3. Fabbed custom pin "spanners" for the inner flange and dado nut. they are custom sizes since the holes on both were so destroyed
4. fabbed an inner spacer for the bearings that is .002 smaller than the outside spacer in an effort to provide some "preload" to the bearings.
5. Fabricated a pair of custom 12" blade flange/adaptors. This saw can run 12 inch blades and wanted a way to swap them in with zero fuss/effort.
6. Made a custom fit bearing putter-onner. The bearings are a strong interference fit on this arbor and wanted to get them on without screwing them up.
7. Outside original flange was a mess as well, so lapped that on a surface plate.

On to other bits now. In theory all I really have to do is finish stripping the cabinet and painting then reassembly, but I'm going to fabricate a riving knife assembly and do some work on upgrading the fence a bit, so while it will be back together it won't necessarily be done. 

(Also, I put a "wanted" ad up in the classified section of the site. Looking for a couple bits. Main one currently is an older AGS style trunnion capture ghib plate and the casting that retains it. If you happen to have these bits spare I would be interested in chatting!)


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## clogs (4 Jun 2022)

Huntington beach.....the memories.....
My home was just outside Seal beach....
bought some hand made leather sandles there...after 40 odd years just had to let em go....
(u could watch the guy make em for u).....guess he's not there anymore.....
happy days for me.....


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## KT_NorCal (11 Jun 2022)

Just an interesting aside. Recently saw some pictures from a big 16" Invicta (An actually quite well made Brazilian machine... not sure if they were imported into the UK or not. Many were rebadged as Delta here in the US like this one) saw. The trunnion set up in the saw is almost a dead-ringer for the Wadkin Bursgreen AGS trunnion design. 

While admittedly a massive saw, note the extensive gib plate that captures the end of the trunnion... that is the way it should be done!


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