# The Axminster "take" on Dado Head Cutters



## Newbie_Neil (8 Feb 2004)

Hi all

This comes courtesy of The Axminster Review, a customer magazine of Axminster Power Tools - February 2004.

Q. An Axminster customer with a BTS10P tablesaw, who watches a lot of Norm Abram, wants to know why Axminster don't sell dado head cutters.

A. To comply with CE regulations our saw tables have a motor-brake to stop run-on of the blade when you push the stop button. The weight of a dado head cutter is such that the inertia that it creates would overcome the motor brake and allow the blade to run-on, exceeding the stopping time laid down in the regulations.

You will also find that most saw spindles are now too short to accomodate the width of the full dado blade and cutter assembler. So even if you bought one from the USA you would not be able to fit it to your saw.

However, for the most part, you will find that a router will be more efficient and give you a better finish on those jobs that might otherwise employ a dado head cutter."

End of Axminster reply.

Now, for those who can't live without a dado head here is where you can buy your dado head cutter for the DW720K
http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/store/newsearch.php3?search=dado&max=25&start=0&submit.x=14&submit.y=8

Cheers
Neil


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## Alf (8 Feb 2004)

Good grief! 200 quid?! :shock: 

Cheers, Alf


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## johnelliott (8 Feb 2004)

Baffles me why anyone would want to use a dado head. I realise that yankee personages don't know any better, but they still use feet and inches and that's the era that dado heads belong in
John


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## Anonymous (8 Feb 2004)

> I realise that yankee personages don't know any better, but they still use feet and inches and that's the era that dado heads belong in



Hmm, those ole fashioned ' feet and inches' peeps have technology on Mars @ the mo, something us metric wallers seem to have a problem with. :lol: 

Its not what you measure with, but how you measure up :wink:


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## johnelliott (8 Feb 2004)

So Bilzee, do you approve of dado heads? and feet and inches?

John


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## Aragorn (8 Feb 2004)

johnelliott":2i8r9fj4 said:


> Baffles me why anyone would want to use a dado head.



Just wondering what you use for grooving and dado-ing?
When you only need to do a few obviously there are various options, but what about making scores of dados for larger projects?


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## Newbie_Neil (8 Feb 2004)

Hi Aragorn

WIth a router and a simple jig you can make dadoes that will ensure you can duplicate the dado quickly and easily. :wink: 

Much safer than any tablesaw.

Cheers
Neil


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## sawdustalley (8 Feb 2004)

_Yet another dado head discussion :roll: _

Also noticed in the review, axminster are selling a new super dooper looking saw guard, the type which hovers - and does not need a riving knife to hold it. (Thus more safely allowing "un-guarded" work to be performed guarded.


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## Aragorn (8 Feb 2004)

Newbie_Neil":1xajr40q said:


> With a router and a simple jig you can make dadoes that will ensure you can duplicate the dado quickly and easily



I often use a router and straight edge for this, but also like the ability to adjust my dado head to a fraction of a millimetre for a good fit. Hard to do that with a router unless you make two passes per dado with an adjustment to the straight edge in between (unless I'm missing a trick  )

_Not another dado head discussion???_ Hey, some of us are new here! Suppose it shows! :shock:


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## johnelliott (8 Feb 2004)

Aragorn but what about making scores of dados for larger projects?[/quote said:


> You'll need to give me an example before I can answer that. It also presumes that dados are actually necessary, where as most times I've seen them used, they are not. About the only time I make grooves is for the ply back panel in cabinets
> 
> John


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## Newbie_Neil (8 Feb 2004)

Hi Aragorn



Aragorn":2871rhnh said:


> I often use a router and straight edge for this, but also like the ability to adjust my dado head to a fraction of a millimetre for a good fit. Hard to do that with a router unless you make two passes per dado with an adjustment to the straight edge in between (unless I'm missing a trick  )



If you have a jig that has two sides then you do not have to move anything in between cuts. :wink: 



Aragorn":2871rhnh said:


> _Not another dado head discussion???_ Hey, some of us are new here! Suppose it shows! :shock:



Don't worry, whenever new people join there is invariably a discussion about dado head cutters. :wink: 

Sorry, but I forgot to say welcome.  

Cheers
Neil


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## Bean (8 Feb 2004)

Well you could always use a Multiplane instead of the Router, as that will allow for small adjustments.   

And pray tell whats the matter with Feet & Inches :shock: :? 

Bean


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## Aragorn (8 Feb 2004)

johnelliott":1x18nnki said:


> You'll need to give me an example before I can answer that. It also presumes that dados are actually necessary, where as most times I've seen them used, they are not.



Fair enough! Different styles of furniture making at work here that's all. Often dado are unnecessary, such as when the joint structure is hidden by making stopped dados as Norm is so fond of.
But if you want the joint to show at the front of the cabinet (or finish the front with a sliding dovetail joint or mitred dado joint) then dados are a must!
I suppose it's not about necessity but aesthetics, otherwise why bother with joinery at all when these new polyurethane glues makes it virtually obsolete :wink:


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## Dewy (8 Feb 2004)

Aragorn, You could use an offset trenching base such as the one Trend make(£19.95+vat). It screws to the base of the router & has 6 sides, each give 1mm more cut than the 1st cut so you can go up to 5mm wider than the router cutter. You could make one yourself with different offsets.


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## Anonymous (8 Feb 2004)

> So Bilzee, do you approve of dado heads? and feet and inches?




Never used a dado head. Neither approve or disapprove.

Nothing wrong with feet and inches. They've served me well enough  

....as have miles, pints, pounds and ounces and farhrenheit etc etc.


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## Dewy (8 Feb 2004)

At least feet & inches & all the Imperial measurements were applicable to things around you. The metric system was made by French mathematicians, 200 years ago,who calculated it from the diameter of the Earth. Trouble was they got their sums wrong. The nautical mile is a true measurement based on the Earths circumference 1000 knots = 1°


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## Signal (9 Feb 2004)

Aragorn,

My BIL makes dolls house parapahelia. Fancy stands to put the dolls houses on, room boxes and stuff like that. He sells at shows and generally makes things in batches. Say 96 room boxes at a time and 4 or 5 stands.

With the room boxes for example there are 500 hundred joints to cut in a batch. With the router its to time consuming, ie loss of profit. He uses the freud SDH on an old Tyzac Zyto (spelling) table saw and can bash them out in a fraction of the time that he could with a router.

He uses a shaw type guard to provide gaurding and he whizes through them safely and effiiciently.

Obviously most of us wanabe chipendales aint going to be putting through that sort of quantity, if you are where do you get the time , so its a lot safer and quicker to use the router. And I dare say most of us dont have an older saw which is not subject to braking and with a long enough arbour 

Ive used the SDH my self on the odd occasion but to be honest, the time it takes me to setup its no quicker than the router and a damns site scarier :shock: .

BIL on the other hand knows exactly where the setup guide is and has it done quicker than I can make a brew.

Sorry if this is a bit garbled and meaningless, its late on sunday night and I must admit to having drunk a bit to much :roll: 

Hic


Signal


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

Has anyone tried the MAC mitre board made in Canada?
It can take either a circular saw or a router to cut trenches up to 24" when set at 90°. It effectively turns any circular saw into a radial arm.
I had seen it on QVC so before I bought one I made a board with a back & front fence & 2 rebated rails to suit my router. Its possible to make the back fence longer to accept a sliding stop system for repeat trenches. Stopped housings (dados) can be made simply by fitting a batten across the top to stop the router.


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## Signal (9 Feb 2004)

Dewy, 

sounds interesting I shall seek out said oujiwangy on the net
and have a gander. 

Cheers

Signal


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

Its £40 for a few pieces of plastic when QVC have them in stock. 
The good thing about that board is that you have a mitre fence in the middle that can be accurately set to whatever angle you want although you do lose the full 24" cross cut ability. 
One rail is fixed at 90° & the other can be adjusted to the saw or router base you have.
I just looked for them & they are out of stock at QVC right now.
This is the home page in Canada so you can see what it looks like & what you can do with it. http://www.macboard.qc.ca/


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

*OOPS.* My error. It has a cross cut of 18". 
I must have been thinking of the plywood one I made with greater capacity.


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## Signal (9 Feb 2004)

Dewy,

Im sure they were selling something similar to this year before last at the ally paly. Whilst I was looking I also found this which looks quite funky.

http://www.solango.com/universal/PID000 ... Saw_System

Signal


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

That looks OK Signal.
Once you see what it's like it's farly simple to make something similar.
That's what I did with the mitre board. I originally used some spare contiboard with softwood front & back fence & a couple of rebated pieces for my router to slide across.
Later QVC made a bodge up of an order for a compressor & nail gun & sent an excersise bed by mistake. It took a month before they sent the correct order. That bed was double the price of the compressor but was no good to me with my disabilities. lol. 
They gave me a discount of £15 on my next order so I got the MAC mitre board for £25 and haven't used QVC since.


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## Alf (9 Feb 2004)

This discussion rang a bell (the mitre board, not dado heads :roll: ) and a quick trawl through the archive produced this which may be of interest.

Now can I make a tiny little plea for the survival of British terms in British woodworking? It may be a dado head, but it cuts a _housing_ or _trench_ across the grain. A _groove_ is with the grain. I know it's incredibly anal of me, but I wince every time  Interesting that Trend call their base an offset trenching base; good for them (but save yourself the money and make your own :wink: )

Cheers, Alf


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## Guest (9 Feb 2004)

Although I am of the generation taught in feet and inches I wish I was more conversant with the metric system.Working to a base of twelve(inches)1/8ths,1/64ths etc. when we have ten fingers is ridiculous to me.Working things out in tens is so easy I wish my head wasn't stuck in the Imperial age.


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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2004)

Hi Jaymar



jaymar":2pc00rp6 said:


> I wish my head wasn't stuck in the Imperial age.



About twenty five years ago I was walking around a loch in Scotland when a German couple asked how far it was to the car park. Instead of saying it's just around the corner, I though I would be a good European and use the metric equivalent of 500yds.

You should hav seen their faces when I told then it was only 500 Kilometres.  

Cheers
Neil


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

300 miles is quite a walk to pick up the car. 
I remember when the South African goverment mad it illegal to use imperial measurements. 1/2" whitworth (BSW) bolts had to be sold as 12.7mm BSW. My father was drawing the plans for an extension & didnt use the 3 standard measures of millimetre, metre & kilometre. He did, as so many are taught in school, & used centimetres. This resulted in mm,cm & m used in the same measurements. He inserted decimal points in 2 places to seperate the 3 measures he used i.e. 6.526.229. I had to go over everything to change it all to metres & millimetres.


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## Dewy (9 Feb 2004)

*Alf*, many complain about 'rabbets' for rebates & 'faucets' for taps. These were the original words used in English & it was us who changed them. Both words are Middle English derived from French words. The Americans still use the original English. A look in the Oxford dictionary shows that.


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## johnelliott (9 Feb 2004)

I also learned imperial at school, even did some engineering later and got used to thou's as well. In the last ten years or so when I've been using tools calibrated in metric only, and working on kitchens where metric is the norm, I've become used to metric and shudder at the thought of going back to the old stuff.
John


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## Alf (9 Feb 2004)

Dewy":2pgpikgb said:


> *Alf*, many complain about 'rabbets' for rebates & 'faucets' for taps. These were the original words used in English & it was us who changed them. Both words are Middle English derived from French words. The Americans still use the original English. A look in the Oxford dictionary shows that.



Dewy,

That's beside the point; we've moved on. Just 'cos the 'Murricans can't get out of the 17th century, doesn't mean to say we have to get back in there with them. :wink: English is an evolving language, not a regressive one, which is why it's been so sucessful. (Thank goodness, I'm hopeless at languages...)

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2004)

Frued Stacked Dado head cutters are available from MachineMart for £82.19 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/ranges.asp?g=116&r=2134


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## Newbie_Neil (9 Feb 2004)

Hi Tony



Tony":wakjfgb7 said:


> Freud Stacked Dado head cutters are available from MachineMart for £82.19



They cannot be fitted to the DW720 without making adjustments to the saw. The link I posted was for the DW cutters.

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2004)

Ah  . 
I completely lost track of that with 3 pages of posts. Still, it must be useful for some member's saws.
Norm and hios wobble dado head cutter was one of my early inspirations 8)


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## Aragorn (9 Feb 2004)

Does anyone with the DW720 _and _a table saw find they use the 720 for many of its various uses. What about radial arm saw users in general - could you live without it? What's your *main* use for this tool??


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## woodshavings (9 Feb 2004)

Hi Aragorn

I have a DW720 RAS and a table saw (a Maxi 26 Universal actually).
The 720 normally gets used for cross cuts only - I have NEVER used it in ripping mode - much to dodgy :evil: However I do have a Freud dado set that I occasionally use with the 720. This is mainly when I need multiple trench cuts (The dado set uses a keyed adapter boss to ensure it does not unwind when the motor is switched off) It takes about 10 minutes to set up and remove the dado set. For one or two trenches, I would normally use my router table. 8) 

Because of space, the Maxi is normally set up for rip cutting with rip fence, and do not leave the sliding table needed for cross cutting fitted.

Thus I can easily switch from cross cutting to rip cutting between the two machines: the set up works very well for me.

Now I have got a 720, I would not want to do without it although in retrospect, I would now prefer a good mitre saw with trenching such as the EB KGS303 - nearly the same saw capacity and less space.

HTH

John


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## Anonymous (17 Feb 2004)

As a DW720 owner without a table saw, I HAVE used the RAS in ripping mode, with no problems at all...but I'm VERY careful with it - don't stand in the path of potential kickback, all the guards in place and so on. Not used the mitre capability, since I prefer to use a fence to set the mitre angle rather than move the arm of the RAS.

The RAS was the first serious bit of woodworking machinery I ever bought (in fact, it's about the only big bit of tailed beast I own). In retrospect, and if I knew then what I do now, I'd probably opt for a decent bandsaw (one of the mid-range Startrites maybe) instead.


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