# Domino or not domino



## Graeme (17 Nov 2009)

I am reading with interest various snippets about the domino system and want (if I am honest) to justify the purchase of this tool. I do lots of face frame, some more chunky frames, doors (large and small), carcassing and even few actual real wood commissions. 8) 

So (in my head) my questions is simple why would I spend £600 on a domino machine + stuff.

The sub questions, is not so simple, what benefits would I get on what projects? Or in other words I suppose, what do you use yours for, that you have found better, quicker cheaper with a domino?

I know I am a tortured sole! But help me out please.


----------



## wizer (17 Nov 2009)

Not this again 

BUY IT!!!!


----------



## Oryxdesign (17 Nov 2009)

If you want to try before you buy you could come up and see me. I've been using one for some time so I'm sure I can answer any questions you have.
Si


----------



## Graeme (17 Nov 2009)

Hi Wizzer. 

Thanks for your considered opinion. :lol: I take it that its come up more than once.

Sounds like your a fan anyway.

I did a bit of searching before asking. May be its the search engine, but I got 250 threads. Many dating back a few years and only passing by the subject.

If you know of a good thread on the subject I would be grateful.


----------



## Oryxdesign (17 Nov 2009)

He's been to the try before you buy!


----------



## MikeG. (17 Nov 2009)

Graeme":18r87ru0 said:


> May be its the search engine, but I got 250 threads. Many dating back a few years and only passing by the subject.



It's the worst search engine in the whole wide world. Save yourself the headache.........look through every thread that has ever been written, in order.............it's so much simpler than relying on the search engine.

Mike


----------



## wizer (17 Nov 2009)

Here you go, some bed time reading.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=35662


----------



## BradNaylor (18 Nov 2009)

I have never known anyone* regret the purchase of a Domino system. The cost is forgotton within weeks when you realise how much easier and quicker it can make your working life.

I keep finding new uses for mine. I used it the other day for making slotted screw holes for allowing movement in a solid wood cabinet top.

I find it very useful for making big wardrobe face frames without glue. I can then finish them in the work shop and glue them up on site if access is tight.




*Doctor is a bit lukewarm. But he's just being contrary!

Cheers
Brad


----------



## Waka (18 Nov 2009)

Don't quibble or do a Woodbloke, just go and buy it, if nothing else its nice to hold :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery (18 Nov 2009)

It all depends on what sort of work you do. The Domino is just a way of cutting loose tenons very, very efficiently and accurately, and as Brad says, you will find new uses for it. I use it for buttons, instead of routing a groove, for example.

When you say "doors, large and small" just how large is large? It has a limited range, so if by "large" you mean architectural doors, then you are likely to be disappointed. But if your work falls into the domino-sized category, and it sounds as if a lot of it does, then you will wonder why you have left it so long.

S


----------



## woodbloke (18 Nov 2009)

Please...noooooooooo [-o< 8-[  :lol: - Rob


----------



## Aled Dafis (18 Nov 2009)

Graeme

I'm just a hobby woodworker and my shop time is pretty limited with a nagging wife and two kids. I generally only get a couple of hours a week in the shop, so the Domino has been a real godsend to me.

I'm currently coming to the end of a sideboard build that has been assembled entirely by using the Domino. Due to my limited shop time, this project has taken me a couple of months, but I reckon that if I had worked solidly on it, it would have only taken me about two and a half days to get it to this point, including pre-finishing all the sub assemblies before the final glue up. Cutting the joints literally took no more than a couple of hours tops.







Sorry about the picture quality, but my workshop is too small to set up properly for taking photos.

For the kind of work you do, I'd imagine that the Domino would pay for itself within a matter of weeks. Don't hesitate further, get it ordered.

Cheers

Aled


----------



## wizer (18 Nov 2009)

It's lovely Aled, if I wasn't already sold, I'd er now be sold on the domino.

Can we just have a big banner across the top of the forum that says "BUY THE DOMINO, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR (LOVE) LIFE"


----------



## Aled Dafis (18 Nov 2009)

Thanks Tom.

I've just updated my WIP in the projects thread. If you check that thread out, I've posted pics of the construction of the doors etc. 

Dead simple, and did I mention how quick it was? :wink:

Cheers

Aled


----------



## cerdeira (18 Nov 2009)

hi

can someone pinpoint as objectively as possible the pros & cons of the domino over a regular biscuit jointer?

i cannot see much difference (i mean functionally), but then I've never used any of them.

thanks


----------



## Boz62 (18 Nov 2009)

I picked a Domino up and waggled its' bits around today for the first time in Axminster's (High Wycombe) today. Yep Waka, it does feel nice . It seems to operate "just so", as it ought to do. I like mechanics that feel like that. Crikey, you pay for it though. And no, I was in for a pillar drill - much lower budget!

Boz


----------



## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

The price is obviously the same wherever you go for the actual unit - but what else should one get with a domino? The systainer of dominoes? What fences\attachments\cutters? Of these "other" bits what are likely to get thrown in for free if you were to "haggle."

Harrogate is days away and I can see the urge to buy something. Especially if it speeds up the process of making stuff for the shop, i.e. windows.


----------



## gidon (18 Nov 2009)

All this discussion on the Domino has made me realise just how useful (and good value) my biscuit joiner is!
The trouble is, when you _really_ need mortise and tenon joints (larger tables, internal / external doors etc) the Domino is not up to it as far as I can tell, and when you don't need that level of joint the biscuit joiner will do? The only exception seems to be narrow components where the shape of the biscuit is wrong.
The strange thing is, the biscuit joiner has always been scoffed at by woodworkers for real furniture yet the Domino is heralded as being the best thing since sliced bread. Why is this? Is it because the strength of the Domino is so much greater than the biscuit - I've not seen evidence to support that. Or is it just good marketing on Festool's part?
Cheers
Gidon


----------



## SNight (18 Nov 2009)

I would tend to agree with gidon. Good marketing on Festools part. I think they are over priced. Yes, very good quality, but then you get stung with all the extras, consumables, cost of domino's etc. And once you buy a Festool product you are buying into the rest of the range because they all compliment each other. I think sometimes there are alternatives which may work just as well, but once you have a Festool product you end up wanting more!!!!


----------



## frugal (18 Nov 2009)

I am sure that all of the major manufacturers are trying to figure out a way past the Festool patents in order to come up with a product that is equivalent. Or they are trying to find a patent of theirs that Festool violates so that they can force a cross licensing deal. After all did it really take 25 years after the first biscuit cutter came out that the next one hit the market.


----------



## wizer (18 Nov 2009)

A biscuit joiner can't make a structural joint. The Domino can. It certainly is up to making tables, beds, benches, chairs, etc.


----------



## Karl (18 Nov 2009)

wizer":sw83m61e said:


> It certainly is up to making tables, beds, benches, chairs, etc.



Not sure about that Tom - with a max domino depth of only 1" into each member, do you think it'd give enough glue area for a structurally sound joint suitable, for example, for beds. :-k I believe this is its main weakness - the size of project it can be used on is limited.

My mind's made up either way - I got a Systainer full of domino's and 4 cutters from e-bay. Now i've just got to buy the tool :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


----------



## Mr Ed (18 Nov 2009)

wizer":355r70tm said:


> A biscuit joiner can't make a structural joint. The Domino can. It certainly is up to making tables, beds, benches, chairs, etc.



I disagree. I've made a few tables using double biscuits to join the legs to the rails and never had one break. I am of course talking small coffee tables, occasional tables and the like, not a dining table. Biscuits work fine in these instances.

Ed


----------



## Mattty (18 Nov 2009)

Comparing biscuit Jointers and Dominos is Chalk and Cheese. Biscuit jointers are great for light joints such as picture frames and alignment work such as edge jointing boards. The Domino does all of that but also structural joints for doors, drawers, cabinetry etc. I know many people use a biscuit jointer for larger frames but they really are't designed or strong enough for this use. 

I agree they are over priced and i for one am certainly not buying into the whole Festool thing. However they are the only ones who make the tool and at the moment can charge as they wish.

For a cabinet maker, it is a must have. For a hobbyist- only you can decide. 

Just for one example- Lets say your making a cabinet door 1000mm high 500mm wide. Once the 4 components are cut the domino would have the joints formed in 2 mins flat. The same 4 pieces with traditional mortice and tenon could take an hour or 2. Multiply this by the number of other joints in can replace in a piece of furniture and the time savings are staggering.


----------



## wizer (18 Nov 2009)

I think it depends entirely on the design of the piece. I've seen the domino used for beds and large tables. Of course, we're not likely to know how long the joints last until someone owns up to it


----------



## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

Chaps - at the risk of sounding selfish, I think the _Domino\Festool\Over priced\can make the same with an aubergine_ has been done a fair bit, what I want to know is what are the essential bits one should get?

I'm also into cars and the strange thing is I've yet to get into (or hear of) such a Yes\No type conversation about spanners\ratchets, Facom vs Snap-on. 

Getting my hat & coat...................


----------



## Mattty (18 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":qek9fzcz said:


> Chaps - at the risk of sounding selfish, I think the _Domino\Festool\Over priced\can make the same with an aubergine_ has been done a fair bit, what I want to know is what are the essential bits one should get?
> 
> I'm also into cars and the strange thing is I've yet to get into (or hear of) such a Yes\No type conversation about spanners\ratchets, Facom vs Snap-on.
> 
> Getting my hat & coat...................



I'd get the systainer with the set of 4 cutter 5,6,8 & 10mm. It comes with plenty of the different sized dominos to get you started. 
I have the trim stop and cross stop attachments, they are not initally necessary and depend on the work/projct your doing. The festool website has videos that are good.


----------



## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

Mattty":1sau8zr3 said:


> I'd get the systainer with the set of 4 cutter 5,6,8 & 10mm. It comes with plenty of the different sized dominos to get you started.
> I have the trim stop and cross stop attachments, they are not initally necessary and depend on the work/projct your doing. The festool website has videos that are good.



Cheers Mattty - what are the trim stop & cross stop used for? I assume it woudl be cheaper to get them with the Domino than later separately? Do you think it would be worth a punt at asking the dealer to throw 1 or both in? Especially if one is buying the dominoes?


----------



## Karl (18 Nov 2009)

Dibs - you can buy the 2 attachments separately, and the overall cost doesn't work out more than the "kit" price of the machine with the attachments.

I'm planning on doing as you suggest - trying to get the attachments thrown in for nowt.

Cheers

Karl


----------



## studders (18 Nov 2009)

Aled Dafis":3itk6f6q said:


> Graeme
> 
> I'm just a hobby woodworker and my shop time is pretty limited with a nagging wife and two kids.
> 
> Aled



Kick 'em out of the workshop if all they're gonna do is nag, oh and lock the door and turn the music up loud.

"Sorry dear, didn't hear you calling me, locked door? , nah, just a bit stiff is all".

:lol:


----------



## Oryxdesign (18 Nov 2009)

It's nice to have the whole kit but you probably don't need it. I bought those cross stop things and I now never use them and I think they are a waste of time. The trim stops work well, I would have thought these are a must if you do lots of face frames. Most of my work is 19mm veneered mdf so I hardly ever use anything but the 5mm cutter, if you but the doms in large packets they aren't that dear.

Simon (who likes Snap On spanners and sockets)


----------



## Mr Ed (18 Nov 2009)

I am actually considering buying one, with my recently received annual bonus (no I am not a banker). Just deciding if its the thing that gives the most bang for the buck.

I think its misleading that they always get compared to biscuit joiners because whilst there is some crossover they seem to me to be different tools.

Ed (who likes Facom screwdrivers)


----------



## Aled Dafis (18 Nov 2009)

Simon

Don't you think that 5mm Dominoes are a bit weedy in 19mm stock? The sideboard that I made is all 20mm oak, and I used 8mm Dominoes. I ummed and ahhd afor a while before going for 8mm, but it just looked right to my eyes.

I'm not picking fault with what you do, hey you produce FAR more stuff in a month than what I do in a year, it's just that I feel 5mm to be a little thin.

Cheers

Aled


----------



## Oryxdesign (18 Nov 2009)

Maybe in oak but not in mdf, the mdf is far weaker than the domino.


----------



## frugal (18 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":2dey968v said:


> Cheers Mattty - what are the trim stop & cross stop used for? I assume it woudl be cheaper to get them with the Domino than later separately? Do you think it would be worth a punt at asking the dealer to throw 1 or both in? Especially if one is buying the dominoes?



There seem to be two 'packs' you can get, Domino-QPlus which is just the machine and Domino QSet which includes the trim stop and cross stop. The price is a little bit cheaper but not a lot.


----------



## Mr Ed (18 Nov 2009)

EdSutton":6fa5likh said:


> I think its misleading that they always get compared to biscuit joiners because whilst there is some crossover they seem to me to be different tools.



Well, just been reading the Festool website and they refer to it as a biscuit joiner, so shows how wrong I am!

Ed


----------



## gidon (18 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":s1b0p7wl said:


> Chaps - at the risk of sounding selfish, I think the _Domino\Festool\Over priced\can make the same with an aubergine_ has been done a fair bit, what I want to know is what are the essential bits one should get?
> 
> I'm also into cars and the strange thing is I've yet to get into (or hear of) such a Yes\No type conversation about spanners\ratchets, Facom vs Snap-on.
> 
> Getting my hat & coat...................



But Graeme who started the post asked about opinions on whether to get a Domino or not! I find the discussion quite helpful - even if it has been discussed before. 


Cheers

Gidon


----------



## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2009)

I use a biscuit jointer. But I do see the benefits of the Domino's thicker, longer 'tenons', over the fragile looking BJ. 

On the other hand, I made the bench for my Coronet lathe, (A heavy beast) using multiple BJs. I've rolled that around on soft castors for a good few years with no racking and only recently have the castors started to show signs of distress. 

*Yet, I would like a Domino!*

Regards
John


----------



## frugal (18 Nov 2009)

EdSutton":1mbo1bjs said:


> EdSutton":1mbo1bjs said:
> 
> 
> > I think its misleading that they always get compared to biscuit joiners because whilst there is some crossover they seem to me to be different tools.
> ...



I guess that the domino is more of a custard cream than a digestive


----------



## Henning (19 Nov 2009)

I spent an hour and a half yesterday fiddling with beadlocks for a small project. 
I could've done the same thing in 10 minutes with a Domino. I want one. Very badly. But, considering it would be approx. 1100 £ here, i think i better get up to speed with the beadlock stuff... :-(
I'm in the YES buy it- group, i have only seen it once, but i think it would be a great system for a lot of different jobs.


----------



## JanneKi (19 Nov 2009)

Henning":xkucachk said:


> ... a Domino. I want one. Very badly. But, considering it would be approx. 1100 £ here, i think i better get up to speed with the beadlock stuff... :-(


So Norway is probably the only place that's more expensive than Finland. Have you considered ordering it from f.ex Germany? Or is it the tax + customs that then raise price to that level?


----------



## woodbloke (19 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":31f8e9gk said:


> *Yet, I would like a Domino!*



The observant amongst you will note that I've said nothing thus far  - Rob


----------



## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

EdSutton":b7yguiz2 said:


> I am actually considering buying one, with my recently received annual bonus (no I am not a banker). Just deciding if its the thing that gives the most bang for the buck.
> 
> I think its misleading that they always get compared to biscuit joiners because whilst there is some crossover they seem to me to be different tools.
> 
> Ed (who likes Facom screwdrivers)



I'm in the same boat - so am umm'ing and ah'ing about getting a domino (especially this weekend at Harrogate).

Also does it make sense buying the systainer full of dominoes - or buying the sizes you actually need?

Dibs (who has Halfrauds professional - 'cos they have a lifetime warranty, are open on a Sunday & are 10 mins down the road!)


----------



## BradNaylor (19 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":wefc9d9t said:


> Also does it make sense buying the systainer full of dominoes - or buying the sizes you actually need?



Like Simon, 90% of my work is with 19mm board and I use 5mm doms.

I also have a 10mm cutter and 50mm long doms which I use for tables. We recently made an oak dining table with them and it was every bit as strong as if we had used M&Ts.

I wouldn't bother with the systainer of doms - just stick to a couple of sizes appropriate to the work you are doing. Keep some spare cutters, though. They do wear out, particularly if you hit a nail!

DAMHIKT!  

As for attachments, I use the 90 degree bolt on thingy a lot for when I'm assembling carcasses, and also the jobby for centring the slot on the end of a face-frame rail.

I'm not big on technical terminology!

Cheers
Brad


----------



## Steve Maskery (19 Nov 2009)

If you are concerned about the cost of the dominoes themselves, it's an easy matter to run off a few metres of stock from the scrap box and cut off what you need, when you need it. A pro wouldn't use his time to do this, but any hobbyist who counts the pennies rather than his time would probably consider doing this.

S


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":36wcavf5 said:


> EdSutton":36wcavf5 said:
> 
> 
> > I am actually considering buying one, with my recently received annual bonus (no I am not a banker). Just deciding if its the thing that gives the most bang for the buck.
> ...



Dibs- Your more than welcome to pop over and try mine. Though it will only confirm what you already know..


----------



## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

Mattty":afe1ax4j said:


> Dibs- Your more than welcome to pop over and try mine. Though it will only confirm what you already know..



Cheers for the offer Mattty.

Out of curiosity can they be used to make "big" stuff. Say window frames? (not huge ones - say 4'x3' ones).


----------



## BradNaylor (19 Nov 2009)

Steve Maskery":2exa4sey said:


> If you are concerned about the cost of the dominoes themselves, it's an easy matter to run off a few metres of stock from the scrap box and cut off what you need, when you need it. A pro wouldn't use his time to do this, but any hobbyist who counts the pennies rather than his time would probably consider doing this.
> 
> S



Funnily enough, I was thinking of having a cutter made for my spindle moulder with a series of half-round profiles - one for each size dom.

Then I could set the block in the machine at the appropriate height for the dom size I need. One pass on each edge of a correctly sized strip of wood and job's a gudden!

I probably won't bother, though. All our scrap wood now goes in the workshop stove!

Cheers
Brad


----------



## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

Just run up my local dealer - 

Domino + Cross stop + 2x1400 Guide Rails & free case (for my TS55) + 2 connectors = £736 (in vat)

with domino packets at £8.33 (in vat)

Has offered to throw something in - so would either get a cutter (or 2) or some packs of dominoes, I suspect. Probably whichever costs the dealer the least.

Hmmmm..

(damn shame no longer VAT registered).


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":1t417qda said:


> Mattty":1t417qda said:
> 
> 
> > Dibs- Your more than welcome to pop over and try mine. Though it will only confirm what you already know..
> ...



They do sell the external use dominos so yes probably. I certainly wouldn't make an external door using dom's though.


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":139pe507 said:


> Just run up my local dealer -
> 
> Domino + Cross stop + 2x1400 Guide Rails & free case (for my TS55) + 2 connectors = £736 (in vat)
> 
> ...


----------



## wizer (19 Nov 2009)

Doesn't the Domino give you the option to have a greater amount of the domino in on side of the joint? If so, then I guess you could mill a deep hole on both sides of the joint and use your own dominoes in cases where you need a more substantial joint, such as beds, dining tables. No? I realise the pro's might not bother doing this. But it's make good use of the miles of timber I can't bare to chuck away.


----------



## Oryxdesign (19 Nov 2009)

The plunge depth of the machine is still the same though Tom. Of course you can stack sets of dominos for greater strength, you aren't limited to one per joint.


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

wizer":3co0y60k said:


> Doesn't the Domino give you the option to have a greater amount of the domino in on side of the joint? If so, then I guess you could mill a deep hole on both sides of the joint and use your own dominoes in cases where you need a more substantial joint, such as beds, dining tables. No? I realise the pro's might not bother doing this. But it's make good use of the miles of timber I can't bare to chuck away.



Yes it does.


----------



## BigMac (19 Nov 2009)

Max plunge is only 28mm I think so still not terribly deep in say 50mm stock.

It does have the "waggle" adjustment though so if you're making your own dominos you could make wider 10mm dominos, but you're stuck with 56mm length dominos unless you wanted to start enlarging your domino holes with a different device (which kind of defeats the ease of use bit).


----------



## woodbloke (19 Nov 2009)

BigMac":3cjmhoai said:


> Max plunge is only 28mm I think so still not terribly deep in say 50mm stock.
> 
> It does have the "waggle" adjustment though so if you're making your own dominos you could make wider 10mm dominos, but you're stuck with 56mm length dominos unless you wanted to start enlarging your domino holes with a different device (which kind of defeats the ease of use bit).


If you think about the 'rule of thirds' though, 28mm ain't far off 33mm approx. How effective would the Dom be though, in a leg that's 60mm thick?..ie in a 60mm leg you'd normally set the mortise to a depth of 40mm which clearly the Dom don't do - Rob


----------



## JoinerySolutions (19 Nov 2009)

In many workshops that I have worked in door and window frames have been morticed and tenoned then two 100mm screws were put in each joint.
Therefore the m & t is being used to line up the joint, as an apprentice frames were put together with paint rather than glue.
So domino joints and good quality modern glue and a few threaded metal dowels and your window or door frames are sorted. ( In fact Festools video shows a door frame being just glued and domino'd) no long sash cramps required. :wink: 
The other added bonus, thinking slightly tangentally, is that there will be no end grain poking out of the cill bottom to soak up water when the mastic or cement pointing/DPC etc fails. Ever had to repair any rotting jambs where the cills are still okay?

Domino is on my wish list and if I get the job for twenty radiator boxes, based on a Chippendale design, it will be ordered before the ink is dry :lol:


----------



## wizer (19 Nov 2009)

Could they gain more depth simply by adding a longer cutter? Or would the machine itself have to be modified? I guess if it was a simple as a longer cutter then domino would have cashed in on that by now. i.e longer cutters + longer dominoes = more folding stuff in their corporate back pockets. Maybe they deemed longer cutters to be fragile with the waggle action. I do like a bit of waggle action... 8) 

I'd love to see some destruction testing on larger joints using dominoes against trad m&t's.


----------



## JoinerySolutions (19 Nov 2009)

Wizer, the cutters are a set length dependant on the dia' of the cutter.
They are designed specifically for the tool.
Rob.

Edit: P.S. I know a girl who thinks 'waggle action' is sexy :lol:


----------



## petermillard (19 Nov 2009)

Mattty":32sdh6x7 said:


> I certainly wouldn't make an external door using dom's though...



Well, different strokes for different folks of course, but I have. First job I used the Domino on was for a couple of pairs of (admittedly) small-ish French doors, one internal and one external.

Purely by chance I was at the customers house yesterday, and they were holding up just fine ~3 years on (the doors, not the customers, lol) so it's entirely do-able as long as you're prepared to put your faith in modern adhesives.

HTH, Pete


----------



## wizer (19 Nov 2009)

Yes I realise they are specialist cutters, I just meant that it might be possible for them to make longer ones.


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

It wasn't a criticism Pete, just not something i'd do. I'm sure dom's are strong enough especially with modern adhesives. I just don't think there long enough to stop the twisting and cupping of wider timbers used in doors and also, i'd rather wait another year or 2 too see if there is any reports of failure on others work before i risk my own!


----------



## Yetty (19 Nov 2009)

Pete, what type of glue did you use on the external door with the Domino? and would you use this again or some other?


----------



## petermillard (19 Nov 2009)

Mattty":1hesflkb said:


> It wasn't a criticism Pete, just not something i'd do.



None taken - just wanted folks to be aware that it can be done . I understand your reservations completely, but these were relatively small doors and, if I'm honest, were part of a 'tart and depart' project by the owners; didn't quite work out as they planned though!

Re. the glue, it was just regular weatherproof PVA - Evostick Resin W probably - whatever my timber yard stocks. I'm using Polyten for interior stuff these days, but I'm not that fussed about it really; haven't had a glue joint fail since I was at school 

Cheers, Pete


----------



## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

petermillard":1m3oziqa said:


> Mattty":1m3oziqa said:
> 
> 
> > It wasn't a criticism Pete, just not something i'd do.
> ...



I'm using that and claiming it as my own.


----------



## Jake (19 Nov 2009)

wizer":uwgzxfbv said:


> Yes I realise they are specialist cutters, I just meant that it might be possible for them to make longer ones.



You'd need a longer plunge action, and then things would get wibblier (or heavier).


----------



## wizer (19 Nov 2009)

yes, of course, a longer bit would mean you would not be able to register the machine on the front of the work.


----------



## houtslager (19 Nov 2009)

well this week I'm literally knocking up a middle sizes drop leaf dining table all in oak with 

























* DOMINOES*
:twisted: , plus glue of course, a new one to me 
-FRENKE transparent polyurethene I believe , 15 minutes open time and 45mins in the clamps. Was looking ok when I left it tonight.

Must remember to taek the camera to take pics tomorrow  

hs


----------



## petermillard (20 Nov 2009)

Mattty":hkfd2nm7 said:


> I'm using that and claiming it as my own.


 That's what I do :wink:


----------



## Dibs-h (20 Nov 2009)

Mattty":fr2hx661 said:


>



I was pondering this last night and thought - yes an oak door on the 'shop would be nice as would hardwood windows - but sod it - I can't imagine the Edwardians would have bothered for what is in essence an outhouse. SO the instant 100's of savings - hmm. Perhaps a few more phone calls to dealers to see what I can get. Besides will see who's at Harrogate doing Festool - after all they've a stall to pay for and some profit is better than none!


----------



## Doug B (20 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":1l2vzc9g said:


> Besides will see who's at Harrogate doing Festool




No one, not a sniff of a Festool today :shock:  ](*,) :evil:


----------



## Mr Ed (20 Nov 2009)

Doug B":va1nr5ku said:


> Dibs-h":va1nr5ku said:
> 
> 
> > Besides will see who's at Harrogate doing Festool
> ...



Thats a shame, I was planning on weighing up a purchase on Sunday. The exhibitors list has someone down as selling Festool - presumably not there?

Ed


----------



## Doug B (20 Nov 2009)

EdSutton":6gl7ye0v said:


> Doug B":6gl7ye0v said:
> 
> 
> > Dibs-h":6gl7ye0v said:
> ...




I was told by the midlands rep that there would be a Festool stand with their northern rep being present, but i couldn`t find them, & i did look.

Perhaps they are only doing Sat/Sun???


----------



## jhwbigley (20 Nov 2009)

Doug B":17y9jy1t said:


> Dibs-h":17y9jy1t said:
> 
> 
> > Besides will see who's at Harrogate doing Festool
> ...



I was looking forward to some Festool demos. 

buy anything Doug?


JHB


----------



## Doug B (20 Nov 2009)

Just read through the free show guide i got as i went in & not a mention of Festool, so don`t get your hopes up!!


----------



## Doug B (20 Nov 2009)

jhwbigley":2lxwqamt said:


> buy anything Doug?
> 
> 
> JHB




Just turning stuff, buffing system & a few bits & bobs> I was hoping to get a better look at the Kapex & side handle router, for work, but it will have to wait :roll: 

Had an excellent day, meeting up with lots of new & old faces, just wish i could find where the kids have hidden my UKWorkshop badge :x


----------



## jhwbigley (20 Nov 2009)

Doug B":1xlrkdjp said:


> jhwbigley":1xlrkdjp said:
> 
> 
> > buy anything Doug?
> ...




I was there only for a few hours, but still bought a square, scraper plane and another ashley Iles chisel..

Had a quick chat with Tony Iles, should go down to there factory being so close to home. 

JHB


----------



## Doug B (20 Nov 2009)

jhwbigley":28tj76o1 said:


> Had a quick chat with Tony Iles, should go down to there factory being so close to home.
> 
> JHB



Definitely worth a visit a real eye opener.


I`d also like to say how impressed i was with the work on display from the Leeds collage of art & design, really excellent pieces.


----------



## jhwbigley (21 Nov 2009)

Doug B":2pfedfpq said:


> Definitely worth a visit a real eye opener.
> 
> 
> I`d also like to say how impressed i was with the work on display from the Leeds collage of art & design, really excellent pieces.




yes, i've only just seen some of it myself for the first time when it was appearing in college ready to go to the show, some real nice stuff. 

next year, if i'm lucky, there might be something of mine for you to look at.

JHB


----------



## wizer (21 Nov 2009)

No pics of the Leeds display?


----------



## jhwbigley (21 Nov 2009)

sorry, my camera decided to have a fit :x


----------



## Dibs-h (21 Nov 2009)

wizer":2kk5ohc0 said:


> No pics of the Leeds display?



I walked past it several times - nice stuff - I really liked the Ottoman and Side Table (no insult intended if it's supposed to be something else). Didn't dare try & take a picture. Been to a few shows in the past and taken a piccy or 2 only to have someone get all heavy about ACID (Anti Copying in Design) and ended up deleting them just to have 'em shut up.

Price Tool Sales - as you walk in on the left, were supposed to be taking up some Festool stuff, but only what's left of their stock, i.e. they aren't a delaer anymore and were dumping the stock. But apparently the HO person was saying it was just the dregs of the barrel, as almost all their Festool stock had been sold off.

So absolutely no Festool!

1 or so extra "tat" type stall this time.

Will be paying my local dealer a visit this week for my fix!


----------



## wizer (21 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":33mlph7q said:


> ACID (Anti Copying in Design)



What a ridiculous concept. That really gets on my wick. If you don't want someone to copy your work, then why display it? If someone really want to copy someone else work, then they will. Photos or not.


----------



## woodbloke (21 Nov 2009)

wizer":izuuzzdc said:


> No pics of the Leeds display?


Did it happen?..where's all the pics? - Rob


----------



## jedmc571 (21 Nov 2009)

Their is huge interest in the Domino, I'm invited to a "Domino Evening" which is being hosted at Grahams Machinery in Chester ( date not confirmed ) I was invited by Gordon Farrer, the North West rep, the idea is to select specific people ( previous Festool purchasers ) and showcase the Domino, and it's use, he suggested a little competition making something like a box, to give people hands on.

With this in mind I wondered how many would be interested in a " Bulk Buy " perhaps a number of members willing to purchase one, would get a beter deal :?: 
Obviously ther's no guarantees here, but it wouldn't do any harm to ask :wink: 

Incidentally, Grahams are at Harrogate tomorrow, if anyone wanted to speak to them?

I'm linked to them mainly as a very satisfied customer, and they supply my company Quinn Glass, with all the tools and consumables ( which is a tidy sum, believe me )

If you ask for Steve Brown ( he loks like a smaller version of Geoff Capes ) he'll do you a good deal, whilst you're there I'm sure :wink: I think they're showcasing Fein, and Bessey, and Bostich nailers

I'll be in Grahams on Tuesday, and will sound him out on the Dom multi buy idea...........but as I said, no guarantee they'll go for it 8)

Cheers

Jed


----------



## Dibs-h (22 Nov 2009)

jedmc571":ory7mvig said:


> Their is huge interest in the Domino, I'm invited to a "Domino Evening" which is being hosted at Grahams Machinery in Chester ( date not confirmed ) I was invited by Gordon Farrer, the North West rep, the idea is to select specific people ( previous Festool purchasers ) and showcase the Domino, and it's use, he suggested a little competition making something like a box, to give people hands on.
> 
> With this in mind I wondered how many would be interested in a " Bulk Buy " perhaps a number of members willing to purchase one, would get a beter deal :?:
> Obviously ther's no guarantees here, but it wouldn't do any harm to ask :wink:
> ...



Cheers Jed

I bought some stuff off Graham's M\c yesterday and Festool did come up in the conversation and the chap gave me his card. Will ring him On Tues\Wed to see what they can do. A bulk buy would get 0% off the tool, but may well get a good discount off accessories. I suppose it's all swings and roundabouts - but as long as there's savings , doesn't really matter how they do it.


----------



## Mr Ed (22 Nov 2009)

I'd be very intersted to know what deal you manage to get - I could be interested.

Ed


----------



## Anonymous (22 Nov 2009)

As one not even remotely interested in the domino, it still seems to me that sagacity lies in waiting a while.

Not long ago, the Festool TS55 was unique, now 5 other well known manufacturers of good quality tools make their own version and one can buy the performance for much less money.


----------



## Ross K (22 Nov 2009)

Tony":l1oat2mu said:


> Not long ago, the Festool TS55 was unique, now 5 other well known manufacturers of good quality tools make their own version and one can buy the performance for much less money.



Pray tell more...

I assume that each will have long since been sued by Festool for copyright infringement?


----------



## wizer (22 Nov 2009)

Ross, Tony is talking about the tracksaws that DeWalt, Makita, etc have now brought out. The difference is, of course, that the 'waggle' technology that Festool used with the Domino is relatively unique and i'd guess they've patented it. I know nothing of patents, but I assume the time period before it expires will be much longer than 5yrs. That's not to say one of the other companies won't bring out something similar but different enough not to get sued. Time will tell. But Tony is bonkers if he thinks people should sit around and wait, just in case another company might possibly bring out a similar tool.


----------



## Ross K (22 Nov 2009)

But what he said was that other companies have made equivalents to the Domino. I'd not get far trying to make a piece of bespoke furniture with a tracksaw! :lol:


----------



## Jake (22 Nov 2009)

He started on Domino and then used the TS55 as an analogy.

A better analogy might be the original Festool tracksaw, rather than the TS55, which was a tweak on a theme.


----------



## ondablade (23 Nov 2009)

Coming in late here, but i bought a Domino in the past few weeks complete with all the accessories. 

No user experience yet, but i could certainly have bought a very nice floor mounted chisel morticer for the same money. (and nearly did buy a Jet)

Seems to me it's a pays your money takes your pick sort of deal - how much use can you see for it right now, and is it worth the price to you. No doubt cheaper alternatives may come along, but that's not now. 

The feedback i've seen has been universally positive, and in the meantime it seemed to me that it offered a level of convenience and flexibility that a conventional morticer does not. Plus (and i'm not a fan of Festool prices, but...) i figured i could trust the quality.

The only real negatives i can see are that the largest domino is a little small, and the depth of cut a little limited. So it's not a complete replacement for a decent mortiser. But then neither is a vertical mortiser. Wondering if it is possible to overlap slots using a DIY tenon for larger joints.

Rightly or wrongly i figured i'd get by on the bigger stuff with the Woodrat and/or a router based set up for the moment, and there's lots of ligjointsrger hter work where it'll pay for itself....


----------



## frugal (23 Nov 2009)

I was having a look at freepatentsonline.com to see if I could find any patents for the side to side drill thingy that the Domino uses, however after finding that "side to side drill thingy" is a rubbish search, I tried searching by assignee name. If you search for Festool related patentsthere are a number of interesting one, unfortunately they are mostly in German.

- A Cam locking removable domino - no doubt to be seen in systainer near you.

- the domino machine itself (in German)

- The domino mechanism itself (lots of details in German and English).

Interestingly Fig. 6 of the last link seems to show that the cutter head rotates from side to side to provide the lateral movement, but I can not see how that works as the sides must be kept parallel in order to keep a tight fit.


----------



## wizer (23 Nov 2009)

I guess they've taken that cam lock idea from Lamello's biscuit version. Seems like a good idea to me. Depends how much take up it gets.


----------



## Steve Maskery (23 Nov 2009)

Frugal
That sideways move is very fast, so effectively the sides are parallel, as the waggle is much faster than the plunge.

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Boz62 (23 Nov 2009)

frugal":3065ekrb said:


> Interestingly Fig. 6 of the last link seems to show that the cutter head rotates from side to side to provide the lateral movement, but I can not see how that works as the sides must be kept parallel in order to keep a tight fit.


Thanks for finding the patents. Interesting. Don't forget that the cutter is fed into the hole at the same time as it is rotated from side to side. The tip is bullet shaped as well. This means that the path of the tip at the extremety of each sweep gives the parallel sides and the correct curvature in plan view

Boz

Edit: OK Steve, we crossed, you're more succinct than me


----------



## frugal (23 Nov 2009)

Good points. I should have remembered from watching it being demoed at Waka's. 

I guess that it means that the bottom of the hole is an arc, a shallow arc, but an arc none the less. Probably does not cause any issues unless you are making domino holes almost the full depth of the timber.


----------



## wizer (23 Nov 2009)

Probably and advantage WRT glue squeeze out (or in).


----------



## Steve Maskery (23 Nov 2009)

The cutters are square-ground, not bullet-shaped. At least, mine are.

Yes the bottoms of the mortices are slightly scooped, so you mustn't get too close.

S


----------



## Mr Ed (23 Nov 2009)

Heres a slightly shocking fact; I was idly thumbing through my folder of the pictures of all the things I have ever made this evening and realised that of the items from the last couple of years, not many would have utilised a Domino. I daresay that if you had one it would begin to determine the way things were done so it could be used, but I'm not sure if thats right for me...

oh my god, I've become the next Woodbloke - another Domino ditherer!

Ed


----------



## wizer (23 Nov 2009)

Well I've always said it depends on the kind of work that you are doing and how much enjoyment you get out of cutting proper joinery. The domino is for joinery tasks where you need strength and speed. If you are making fine pieces of furniture from hardwood then perhaps you don't want to use a man made loose tenon. If you are doing a mixture of furniture, fitted installations or work that involves lots of repetition, then the Domino excels. I don't think any of us believe that the domino is the end of the traditional M&T joint, far from it. It's a tool for speeding up repetitive, non critical joinery.


----------



## Boz62 (24 Nov 2009)

Steve Maskery":3dzumzq0 said:


> The cutters are square-ground, not bullet-shaped. At least, mine are.


My bad. Wasn't concentrating...
Boz


----------



## Ross K (24 Nov 2009)

Jake":3fuo754a said:


> He started on Domino and then used the TS55 as an analogy.
> 
> A better analogy might be the original Festool tracksaw, rather than the TS55, which was a tweak on a theme.



Aaah, thanks Jake, all clear now, I assumed a TS55 WAS a Domino (and I have one!) 

I must have got distracted by the red mist after I read his comment "sagacity lies in waiting a while". I never have been impressed by pretentious language on a down to earth forum.


----------



## Ross K (24 Nov 2009)

wizer":38mkhivc said:


> It's a tool for speeding up repetitive, non critical joinery.



I agree, it's invaluable for that.

It's also, critically, a tool for making a floating tenon joint where the "real thing" would be extremely time consuming, for example, in non-90 degree work.


----------



## Dibs-h (25 Nov 2009)

jedmc571":1u6ula60 said:


> I'll be in Grahams on Tuesday, and will sound him out on the Dom multi buy idea...........but as I said, no guarantee they'll go for it 8)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jed



Jed

Any news\progress? I did ring them yesterday and they got back to me today. Offered me 15% off list prices for the accesories. Dealers must all have different Lists :roll: Another dealer (local) was offering me 25% off list for accessories off the bat. Been busy at the mo, so haven't been able to see the local dealer.

Cheers

Dibs


----------



## jedmc571 (4 Dec 2009)

Dibs,

PM SENT


----------



## Dibs-h (5 Dec 2009)

Absolute shambles - went to the local dealer for a fix and no bloody Domino in stock!

Found another local'ish.


Done It!


Bought the following

- Domino (full set)
- 2x 1400 rails
- 2 connectors for rails
- padded bag for rails (FOC)
- Domino assortment (new one including 4mm ones) [paid less than list price even with VAT added]


----------



## woodbloke (5 Dec 2009)

Dibs-h":1ugu8gza said:


> Done It!



Ed just needs to make his mind up now :lol: - Rob


----------



## Paul Chapman (5 Dec 2009)

woodbloke":3s8e5w23 said:


> Ed just needs to make his mind up now :lol:



Ed's probably saying the same about you :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Mr Ed (5 Dec 2009)

Paul Chapman":3djgo4oj said:


> woodbloke":3djgo4oj said:
> 
> 
> > Ed just needs to make his mind up now :lol:
> ...



I think I might have said a few times and then promptly dived into the same hole myself. What is it about the Domino that does this - I've never experienced such indecision on another tool....

..anyway I'm thinking of buying a new saw now!

Ed


----------



## wizer (5 Dec 2009)

I, on the other hand am certain I'm going to have the tool. Just waiting for the funds fairy to pay me a visit.

Anyone want a limb?


----------



## Chems (5 Dec 2009)

I'm going to weight in on this. I want to get myself a Christmas present an I'd really like a Big Jet PT buts its a lot or a SIP table saw which is a lot as well. But I do have a lead on a Domino for £470 with just the 5mm cutter and the basics.

I'm weightin it up, obviously a big saving for a start plus when I think about it making mortices in the traditional way with a machine requires a good morticers (expensive) and a good table saw with jig to cut the tenons. This does both. Obviously it won't replace the MT and I wouldn't want it to but it looks like it might soon join my small arsenel of woodworking tools.


I have one question for the Dominion (people what uses dominos) I made a stool a little while back and use long but thin tenons and then pegged them and its ever so sturdy. Would the domino work for that as well?


----------



## OPJ (5 Dec 2009)

Chems, I don't see why you couldn't peg your dominoes, provided the ones you use are long enough. There is an old traditional joint (I forget what it's called) where something very similar to this is achieved and _both_ ends of a 'loose tongue' are pegged in place. You probably wouldn't even need glue. :wink:

I seriously think that anyone considering one of these tools for hobby use should give it a lot of serious consideration. It sounds like (Ed and Chems at least) you may be better off spending that spare cash on a larger table saw, if your current machines are holding you back... That's one area where a Domino won't improve things! :wink: You'd only have to spend another year saving up for a new saw/putting up with the old one in the mean time. 

...If you did go for a Domino though, it might be worth taking a leaf from one of Steve Maskery's old articles - as you won't be using this day in, day out, you could machine your own dominoes from scrap stock on the router table (that's another alternative means for cutting tenons, by the way!). :wink:


----------



## Chems (5 Dec 2009)

A table saw is defiantly coming very soon, the 10" sip, but one doesn't exclude the other an I actually get on really well with my little saw having done raised panels and many tenons on it so far. Also the £470 price tag is to good to miss!


----------



## Mr Ed (5 Dec 2009)

Chems":fsrl1eph said:


> A table saw is defiantly coming very soon, the 10" sip, but one doesn't exclude the other an I actually get on really well with my little saw having done raised panels and many tenons on it so far. Also the £470 price tag is to good to miss!



Where is it being sold for £470?


----------



## Dibs-h (5 Dec 2009)

Dibs-h":3qlre3l1 said:


> Absolute shambles - went to the local dealer for a fix and no bloody Domino in stock!
> 
> Found another local'ish.
> 
> ...



Down right F**cking idiots! If it wasn't bad enough turning up and grounding the car in what looked like a car park, i.e. dropped curb in front of the building, other cars there, no signs of car park being elsewhere - came to put together a bench (for assembly with a 6mm sacrificial mdf top - was going to get mdf & ply tomorrow) and was halfway thru changing the 5mm cutter for a 10mm cutter and guess what?

I paid £632 (in Vat) for the Domino - even upon opening it, the penny didn't drop, only halfway thru changing the cutter did it drop.

Bloody cretin supplied the basic tool instead of the full set. I just don't have the strength to type the expletives. :evil: 

Will see if they are open tomorrow - some places are (you never know), failing that will be ringing them on Monday morning and giving the f%cks a piece of my mind. Worst case, stomp back and till them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine and get a refund or chargeback if need be.

If it was a small amount of money - then you'd understand. But I'd rung up beforehand, told him what I wanted and then turned up, paid & collected. I spent almost £1k and am just royally cheesed off.

The mood I'm in - I might just suggest they come to me and swap out their mistake 'cos if I have to drive to Skipton and back, I might as well give them their kit back and they can refund the card.


----------



## Mr Ed (5 Dec 2009)

Shoulda spent the money on a table saw!

only kidding, I'm sure you'll get it sorted and in a day or two it'll be forgotten, although I'm irritated by that type of thing too.

Ed


----------



## Dibs-h (5 Dec 2009)

EdSutton":2u8iqnlx said:


> Shoulda spent the money on a table saw!
> 
> only kidding, I'm sure you'll get it sorted and in a day or two it'll be forgotten, although I'm irritated by that type of thing too.
> 
> Ed



Problem is that it puts one in a completely black mood and you have to try extremely hard it stop it affecting something else.

Last time I went for a Sheesha after a simialr day, someone tried repeatedly to press the switch I was trying so hard to keep contained - he managed to press it on the 4th or 5th go and he wasn't quite prepared for what happened next. Due to his ego also getting dented - pride probably stopped the rozzers getting called. 

Man I probably need some anger management stuff. :x


----------



## Dibs-h (5 Dec 2009)

Just looked up the part nbr and I'd paid for a

- DF500 Q-set 240v (574281)

but was given a

- DF500 Q-plus 240v (574256)

so at least shouldn't get any jip on Monday (or tomorrow if they are open).


----------



## Chems (5 Dec 2009)

EdSutton":37ebpopq said:


> Chems":37ebpopq said:
> 
> 
> > A table saw is defiantly coming very soon, the 10" sip, but one doesn't exclude the other an I actually get on really well with my little saw having done raised panels and many tenons on it so far. Also the £470 price tag is to good to miss!
> ...



I'll let you know if I manage to get it at that price. Thats the basic package.


----------



## Ironballs (5 Dec 2009)

Okay lads, perspective. Dibs it's only a tool, no one has offended your character or family!; Chems never yet used a table saw for cutting a tenon, I've used bandsaw and hand saw and will shortly be using the router table - though I may be using a tablesaw if I buy myself Steve's DVD for xmas.

I like the challenge and fit of a good M&T and as I have a couple of Arts & Crafts projects lined up with no set deadline I'll take the time and pleasure to create the joints and make them well


----------



## Chems (5 Dec 2009)

Even with a top notch table saw the domino is still going to be quicker. To do really good ones you need a dado set or a proper cast iron jig which is about £100.


----------



## Ironballs (5 Dec 2009)

True, it will be quicker, depends on your volume and what you get from your hobby as to whether you buy it. Assuming it is a hobby of course. For me I don't make enough pieces that would benefit from loose tenons to make it worthwhile

But obviously my 200 quid LN scraper plane is worth every penny :roll: 

I know, I know................................. :lol:


----------



## Chems (6 Dec 2009)

For me I like to make things quickly, but I also like the traditional, I can do traditional when I want but when I want a quick job I'd like a domino.


----------



## Dibs-h (6 Dec 2009)

Ironballs":erruxt68 said:


> Okay lads, perspective. Dibs it's only a tool, no one has offended your character or family!; Chems never yet used a table saw for cutting a tenon, I've used bandsaw and hand saw and will shortly be using the router table - though I may be using a tablesaw if I buy myself Steve's DVD for xmas.
> 
> I like the challenge and fit of a good M&T and as I have a couple of Arts & Crafts projects lined up with no set deadline I'll take the time and pleasure to create the joints and make them well



Yeah I know what you mean - it's just the annoyance factor of another round trip of 60-90mins and maybe a "Oh! Sorry we don't have that one!"

I had some work planned for it this Sat evening and a bit on Sunday and it's just thrown that out of the window. If I was paying peanuts, I would have been happy with a monkey - but these things aren't peanuts. It isn't anything to do with the tool - just the sheer inconvenience it has caused.

I suppose been a bit spoiled what with awesome service from you know who!

I suppose some sleep and tomorrow on the roof - assuming it doesn't rain (completely) should deal with the "annoyance".


----------



## Dibs-h (6 Dec 2009)

Chems":273xicij said:


> A table saw is defiantly coming very soon, the 10" sip, but one doesn't exclude the other an I actually get on really well with my little saw having done raised panels and many tenons on it so far. Also the £470 price tag is to good to miss!



That has to be £470 plus vat - i.e. £540 (£29 less normal)?


----------



## Mr Ed (6 Dec 2009)

Chems":r1f706wl said:


> Even with a top notch table saw the domino is still going to be quicker. To do really good ones you need a dado set or a proper cast iron jig which is about £100.



Not sure about that Chems. I reckon the best tool is a carefully set bandsaw, having cut the shoulders on the tablesaw. I would see a dado as a fairly crude way of forming a tenon personally. 

Ed


----------



## chippy1970 (6 Dec 2009)

Dibs-h that must be a pretty rubbish Festool dealer you have, I have about 4 or 5 near me and most of them are good but a few do tend to do Festool as a sideline so only one guy in the shop knows about them and the others are a bit clueless.


----------



## Steve Maskery (6 Dec 2009)

Chems":101sjjhl said:


> Even with a top notch table saw the domino is still going to be quicker. To do really good ones you need a dado set or a proper cast iron jig which is about £100.



I can't let you get away with that Chems! 

You definitely don't need a dado set, although, yes, it's handy, especially for angles tenons on the tablesaw.

A "proper", as you call it, cast iron jig is not at all a good solution. It's expensive, SLOOOOWWW and unguarded, and generally only does one job. A well-designed homemade jig like mine is every bit as accurate, much FASTER (because you only have to clamp each workpiece once instead of twice) and versatile. I cut twin tenons and spline joints on mine. Mine is also much easier to set up, as the fit of the tenon is guaranteed RFTET and the position of it within the workpiece is finely adjustable with just one test cut required. Adjusting this doesn't affect the fit.

I see you are in Northampton. Why don't you pop up the M1 and come and have a look? You'd be most welcome. I'm off now for a couple of days, but I am around most of the time.

If you put mine and a Delta next to each other, you'd be nuts to choose the latter! 

I also agree that the bandsaw is a good way, especially for very large tenons such as on the ends of a bed rail. 

Cheers
Steve


----------



## Chems (6 Dec 2009)

EdSutton":c6hahg4o said:


> Chems":c6hahg4o said:
> 
> 
> > Even with a top notch table saw the domino is still going to be quicker. To do really good ones you need a dado set or a proper cast iron jig which is about £100.
> ...



I couldn't comment on either as I've only ever seen Norm an the like do the tenons with the dado an it looked great. Haven't got a bandsaw so can't comment on that either. 


Thats £470 all done.


----------



## miles_hot (6 Dec 2009)

Steve Maskery":3bi2gqhk said:


> Chems":3bi2gqhk said:
> 
> 
> > Even with a top notch table saw the domino is still going to be quicker. To do really good ones you need a dado set or a proper cast iron jig which is about £100.
> ...


Any pics/ further explanation??

Many thanks

Miles


----------



## Steve Maskery (6 Dec 2009)

Hi Miles
I have to be careful about how much I say, as this is one of my commercial activities. That's why the reference to my site is in my signature rather than in the body of my posts. However, as a direct response to your specific question, you might like to watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XXftwASnK8
I've recently made a modification to it which makes it even slicker than the video shows.

Money-back guarantee and all that stuff!  No-one has yet taken me up on it.

No I really am off for a couple of days. See you all Tuesday.
S


----------



## Dibs-h (6 Dec 2009)

chippy1970":2nljdmo7 said:


> Dibs-h that must be a pretty rubbish Festool dealer you have, I have about 4 or 5 near me and most of them are good but a few do tend to do Festool as a sideline so only one guy in the shop knows about them and the others are a bit clueless.



It's in a neighbouring town and having worked in that town for some years - (the outsiders") we used to call it xxxxxxdale, bloomin weird at times and that goes for the folk there as well. :wink: Bit like the weird folk and town in the Prisoner (well not quite as bad - but hopefully you get my point).

Just put it down to that. The weird thing is my local dealer - the guy who used to do Festool is no longer there and someone else does it. None in stock. Now there isn't a promotion on them - so I don't see any reason why one should not be able to walk into a Festool dealer, pay and walk out with a Domino. If they don't have any stock WTF is that about?

To be honest I think it's more widespread than I may have expected - i.e. rubbish service and monkeys (i.e. getting paid peanuts) on service counters.

Just rung them - closed, so will have to swing by in the morning. Just hope it gets sorted.

£470 all in - wow. Can't see it myself as that is almost the ex vat price. But if it comes off - =D>


----------



## Chems (6 Dec 2009)

Thats a very kind offer steve. I may have to take you up on it one day. I notice that you have both a good way of cutting tenons and a domino so your a man after my own heart. I'd love a domino for those qucik jobs but when doing things I consider "fine furniture" I'd still like to do a proper M+T. When I get my table saw upgrade I will have to do some investigation into how I will cut my tenons. Currently I use a cross cut sled and nibble away bit by bit which works ok normally but is slow and can often leave a rough finish that requires a lot of work to smooth out.


----------



## sometimewoodworker (6 Dec 2009)

Dibs-h":28uzefi2 said:


> Just rung them - closed, so will have to swing by in the morning. Just hope it gets sorted.


 
I hope things get sorted for you. 

I have a comment on the rails. I have 2 sets of connectors and the Guide rail FS 1080/2-LR32 one FS 1400 and 2 FS 800s. In retrospect I should have got 1x800 1x1080-LR32 and a 2424-LR32 or a 3000or 2700. 

The consensus on the FOG is that for most people getting more than one rail the same size is not such a good idea. 

I make these comments now as you may want to reconsider the choice of 2 1400s


----------



## petermillard (7 Dec 2009)

sometimewoodworker":9qyhl126 said:


> The consensus on the FOG is that for most people getting more than one rail the same size is not such a good idea.
> I make these comments now as you may want to reconsider the choice of 2 1400s



I understand where you're coming from, but two 1400s work pretty well for ripping a full 8x4 sheet (a 1400 and a 1080 joined wouldn't quite do the job, and a 1400 and 1900 would be way too long) especially as most of us end up with one 1400 rail as part of the 'bundle'.

Having a 2.7 or 3.0m rail is a nice idea, but it's a long piece of metal that you have to store flat or vertically somewhere; fine if you have the space, but not everyone does.

Cheers, Pete.


----------



## Dibs-h (7 Dec 2009)

petermillard":1hftq3tq said:


> sometimewoodworker":1hftq3tq said:
> 
> 
> > The consensus on the FOG is that for most people getting more than one rail the same size is not such a good idea.
> ...



Just been - got the "Oh! Don't know how that could have happened!" I decided to say as little as possible - i.e. successfully fought the urge to say "You picked up the wrong box perhaps?".

They didn't have a QF-Set, so just supplied a trim stop and cross stop. 

THe best I got was "Sorry 'bout that." I felt I had to say something - So just replied with a "Yes, I'll bear that in mind when looking to make further purchases. Thanks for the experience!" Walked out the door. Not before having the chap confirm expilicitly that the machine purchased is under the 1+2 warrantly.

Jerome - the 2x1400 rails where bought specificly to cut down 8'x4' sheet stock. a 3m is just too much headache and a 1400 and 1080 wouldn't do a 8'x4' sheet.

I also wanted to use ideally as few connectors as possible.


----------



## houtslager (7 Dec 2009)

Just a quick comment on the rails, if you think you are gooing to cut a LOT of sheet materials up, then I really do approve of the following combos -
1 x 3m ; 1 x 1.4m + 600mm ; 1.4m on its own and finally 1 x 600mm

Ok you don't need this ALL at ONE GO, and can be gotten over a period of time to suit [like moi  ]

hth,

hs


----------



## Chems (9 Dec 2009)

Just to rub it in a little. I'm set to get my Domino for Christmas for £456 for the basic domino. Will probably get the Trim thing and the cutters at a later date. They are also now doing an 11mm cutter now. I'll probably buy cutters as an when to spread the cost.


----------



## Dibs-h (9 Dec 2009)

Chems":8ccbcxg8 said:


> Just to rub it in a little. I'm set to get my Domino for Christmas for £456 for the basic domino. Will probably get the Trim thing and the cutters at a later date. They are also now doing an 11mm cutter now. I'll probably buy cutters as an when to spread the cost.



Best of luck - I'm still struggling to grasp that's the VAT inc price - in which case you're getting approx 22% discount on a machine. A machine which if a dealer is found to be discounting - runs the risk of having their dealership revoked.

£456 + vat - may well sound right. Seeing as you've already said it's the VAT inc price, I'll just put it down to one of those things that I don't grasp. :shock:

Good luck anyways.


----------



## petermillard (9 Dec 2009)

Chems":2to60fvh said:


> They are also now doing an 11mm cutter now...



11mm sounds like an odd size - would have thought if they were doing anything bigger it'd be a 12mm; you sure you're not mistaking the 4mm cutter (it's 11mm long) for the 4 x 20mm doms??

Cheers, Pete

p.s. - good price! I only paid a bit less than that for mine a few years ago, ex-demo.


----------



## Chems (9 Dec 2009)

I think your right. It just says: Festool Domino 4 x 11mm Cutter but has the normal 4mm cutter listed further up so I thought it was a new one.


----------



## Dibs-h (9 Dec 2009)

Chems":w7zctj1d said:


> I think your right. It just says: Festool Domino 4 x 11mm Cutter but has the normal 4mm cutter listed further up so I thought it was a new one.



Good job you didn't go in and ask for 11mm doms - and getting insistent about it. :lol:


----------



## Chems (9 Dec 2009)

Heheh should go to your place an do it to give them a bit of payback on your behalf. :lol:


----------



## Dibs-h (9 Dec 2009)

Chems":14p3101b said:


> Heheh should go to your place an do it to give them a bit of payback on your behalf. :lol:



Now that would be funny! Hysterical. :lol:


----------



## joesoap (9 Dec 2009)

Mike Garnham":254o8u08 said:


> Graeme":254o8u08 said:
> 
> 
> > May be its the search engine, but I got 250 threads. Many dating back a few years and only passing by the subject.
> ...


Aye yer right Mike , Tonto and the Lone Ranger could beat it ! Cheers !


----------

