# Workbench design



## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Following on from my Tenon's discussion, I thought I would share the latest design I have based on some of the feedback on an image I shared.

So these were some of the issues.

1. No space for feet
2. Nothing to hold the work
3. Space to work

I probably missed a bunch, but I didn't want to go too far from my design as it's multi-purpose, so will have an integrated Table Saw, and maybe a Router table.

Couple of things I've not added to the worktop is some dog holes, those are going to be added once I have figured out my cut outs for my integrated tools. I also added a tortion box as my worktop, based on Matt Estlea's design.

EDIT - Forgot to say that this design is more filled out under the worktop, draws and other kinds of storage, I thought I had mentioned it but must have forgotten. So yeah it looks flimsy, but I've turned off some of the components in my design while I worked on the frame some more. My mistake.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

Hello again
I would call that an 'MFT' what you are proposing, rather than a workbench.
I'd say a lot of us are still unclear if you plan on having a real workbench in the workshop...
Have you the space for one?
One heavily built as not to rack, and with a solid top for too many reasons to mention for working by hand.
Or... if you plan on doing everything with electrons, like say that hooked on wood channel?

Tom


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

You may like to consider a 2' wide Roubo type bench and looking at your design, it's not far off.

If you do consider going down that path, then this book may be worth looking at.







Workbenches, Revised Edition: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use: Amazon.co.uk: Schwarz, Christopher: 9781440343124: Books


Buy Workbenches, Revised Edition: From Design & Theory to Construction & Use Revised edition by Schwarz, Christopher (ISBN: 9781440343124) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



www.amazon.co.uk





But watch out, as you may end up going over to the dark side.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ok yeah definitely as an MFT. I find myself cutting a lot of wood and I don't have the surface. I definitely have the room for those dimensions though. I also need the storage space, so lots of drawers beneath. 

I also do a lot of sanding and finishing, and have recently got into refurbishing some of old guitars, so this kind of surface would be ideal for me to work on without getting cramped as it was before.

Currently I have a small foldable bench which I hate, you know those black and decker workmates? Well its not that its bad, its served me well, but its old and clunky. I also have a basic worktop with a small vice on, and it's just not big enough. So both of them will be making room.

Out of interest, what is the dark side?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Ok yeah definitely as an MFT. I find myself cutting a lot of wood and I don't have the surface. I definitely have the room for those dimensions though. I also need the storage space, so lots of drawers beneath.
> 
> I also do a lot of sanding and finishing, and have recently got into refurbishing some of old guitars, so this kind of surface would be ideal for me to work on without getting cramped as it was before.
> 
> ...



You may be tempted to bung your powertools away by Schwartz, but you must resist.

May the grain be with you.


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## Jameshow (27 Apr 2021)

I'd consider building something quick and cheap to start with say a 18mm ply 6'x34" top with a shelf 4x4 post legs and 4x2 rails and a 30" shelf below. Then you can find out what suits you without spending a fortune. 

I then put a layer of 1 1/2 timber on top as I do more hand work. 

Cheers James


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Why?


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Adam W. said:


> You may be tempted to bung your powertools away by Schwartz, but you must resist.
> 
> May the grain be with you.



Never! My tools look good, and they need to be seen.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Jameshow said:


> I'd consider building something quick and cheap to start with say a 18mm ply 6'x34" top with a shelf 4x4 post legs and 4x2 rails and a 30" shelf below. Then you can find out what suits you without spending a fortune.
> 
> I then put a layer of 1 1/2 timber on top as I do more hand work.
> 
> Cheers James



I know what I want it to do, I've done plenty of research. I also built a potting bench for my girlfriend and it was customised to what she wanted, so I've got experience. If this fails then it fails - I try again.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

I have to say, I grew up with my parents who had lots of plans for stuff they wanted to do, and they hardly did anything - and then they lost the house and although they are happy now, they don't have anything to show for their ambitions.

I am a self-taught musician, software engineer and hopefully pretty handy with the tools I have.

When I moved into this house 2 years ago, its a new build, so we had lots of plans on what we wanted to do. My girlfriend wanted a potting bench, so we built one. I wanted a full width floating desk with fancy lights underneath it for my computers, so I built one.

I don't do limitations, I know it's kind of a British way of thinking, didn't used to be. So if there is something I want to do, and I believe that I can do it. As long as I have researched exactly what I want to do. Planned it out thoroughly, then I see absolutely no reason why it can't be done.

I also have a pretty decent job that pays decent. I don't do pubs and clubs, 3k holidays, I'm happy to spend money on something I enjoy - because we can't take it with us.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

If you're questioning why one would want solid timber for a bench top, 
and at the same time wishing for a planer thicknesser like Matt's, then I've gotta ask, how you proposing to do any of the wood prep.
Maybe you have a cheaper one and the power supply to match, or you are planning that soon.
But if that's down the road yet, then how will you get by prepping your timber until then?
In many folks minds, this would be one of, if not '_the_' most important fundamental skill to be able to achieve, before doing anything else.
.
If this is going to be the only bench in the workshop, then that is what I would be tailoring everything else around, compared to the opposite
way you are wanting to design things.

Might make sense if you have great machinery, but you will be hard pressed to find anyone working proficiently with a hollow or lightweight bench.
Have you ever seen anyone really use a hand plane on a bench like that?

I presume there's some folk who are making it seem that way, as this idea seems to be cropping up lately.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Why do you think it's going to be hollow and lightweight?


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

I don't see any laminations nor suggestions of it,
and strange/weak looking design of the legs,
It all looks a bit skimpy to me, and I reckon it would wobble about.

Have you got any reason to design the base like that?
If all you need is storage, then might be worth looking into some traditional designs with M&T's which will dictate dimensions for a bit more heft.
Bar the Roubo for one, most of the traditional designs use sturdy basis without needing a top to be attached to make rigid.
That might not be a bad idea if you're set on having the clutter, sorry, I mean tools, integrated into the design.

A floating top will make things easier to swap if you decide you need a proper hefty thing to work on instead...
The trouble with designing a traditional base is if you decide to go that route afterwards, the bench would be much higher.

Am I making sense yet, in suggesting that you could really do with a workbench for hand tools in there as more of a priority than an MFT.

Tom


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Well I'm not really after anything for hand tools in probably what most would consider the norm. I'm not going to be doing much chiselling. I'm mainly going to be using this for power tools.

The design will be much more sturdy, as I've said it's going to have storage, so cupboards and draws are going to strengthen the structure. I could also easily add a few more legs, to which the storage can join with. 

Don't take this the wrong way, but I'm assuming from the comment about integrated power tools in the design, I am actually on the wrong forum. Which is fine. People get precious over what they do for a living, and newbies who rock up are sometimes scoffed at. Way of the internet I'm afraid. If that wasn't the intention, then that's also fine.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

I don't think there's any snobbery here.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Well I didn't think so. But recently I've definitely felt some. If it's me being overly sensitive, then I apologise.

I see why the legs look a bit odd. But I think that's because I've added feet to raise it up so I can get my feed under if need be.

Would it be unthinkable to have the sides of the base dovetail into the legs?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

No, you can do that with a lap dovetail.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

This is I think kind of where I'm leaning towards.



https://i1.wp.com/mattestlea.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Power-Tool-Workbench.png?fit=1608%2C1608&ssl=1



But I want to integrate a table saw and router, like this:



https://i2.wp.com/makezine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/14-k8vbp3y.jpg?fit=2448%2C1836&ssl=1


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Like this?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Like that.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

You are probably on the best forum in regards to all things woodworking, 
as there is quite a varied expertise on all subjects.

Just wish to emphasize the importance for planing as the core of all things of all woodworking, unless you wish to work exclusively with sheet goods.
You might indeed be thinking of a router sled for surfacing.
Whichever way you do it, wood prep needs to be done.

That would absolutely be my first priority, 
You haven't addressed how you are doing that,
(I'm guessing is me, that might be coming across as unhelpful or whatever the word might be)
Sorry about that.

Must have a wee think about some nice examples of bases with in built 
storage, Derek Cohen's about the first one comes to mind.
Should be easy to find, as it's recent.

A great tool you have for design, I'd be virtually hacking apart traditional designs if I were you.

Tom


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## Cabinetman (27 Apr 2021)

We all have different ideas and different ways of working, you obviously have the commitment and get go to get things done so good on you, personally I wouldn’t know what on earth to do with all those holes but that’s part of life‘s rich tapestry. Ian


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> You are probably on the best forum in regards to all things woodworking,
> as there is quite a varied expertise on all subjects.
> 
> Just wish to emphasize the importance for planing as the core of all things of all woodworking, unless you wish to work exclusively with sheet goods.
> ...



Probably a bit of me. Stuff getting to me a little.

Ok, well lets start again. How do you mean wood prep? Obviously I don't have the money for a thickener, well, not that missus would be happy about me spending money on. Unless there is decently priced one that is portable.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

I was going to add a PS to my post, but computer says no.

Your Paulk core design may lend a hand if you were to decide to swap it/
integrate a proper top into some of it.
I'd personally design the base around that, as in getting it the right height
or making it so you could trim a bit off/adding a shim without something like the legs or strechers being in the way.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> We all have different ideas and different ways of working, you obviously have the commitment and get go to get things done so good on you, personally I wouldn’t know what on earth to do with all those holes but that’s part of life‘s rich tapestry. Ian



Well initially I was going to use them as cubby holes, not even sure if the term exists, but they are known as 'Cubbies' in my design application - well that's what I labelled them. So I was going to use them to hold various things such as pencils, or craft knife, I don't know - just thought they would be useful. But then I got inspired by Matt Estlea's design, and I'm still kind of thinking about them. Aesthetically I like them.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> I was going to add a PS to my post, but computer says no.
> 
> Your Paulk core design may lend a hand if you were to decide to swap it/
> integrate a proper top into some of it.
> ...



Ok, well I was going to pinch the base in, so the top was wider and longer, and I may still do that. It would feel more sturdy, especially if I end up putting castors on the bottom.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

I don't know if there's decent surface planers that are any good.
I got one from a mate, and it was unusable for me, as in 
sounded like a rocket with its screaming universal motor, and the top bit of tin plate was damaged, so junk.
Tried to give it back to him, was happy to be rid of it and said I saved him a trip to the dump.
Some say the lunchbox thicknessers are alright, but again universal motor, not a quiet induction motor.

I don't have the funds for a proper surface planer or a thicknesser,
The surface planer is to get a flat face or edge, the thicknesser would make a perfectly thicknessed profiled banana if the timber was bowed going in.

Basically saying its faffery to have one without the other without having a plane or two.
One can make do without all that, with a good bench.
Some folks like Cosman, Klausz, Charlesworth, etc keeping the bench from getting damaged so they can use the top as a reference for planing.
Those folk who do or demonstrate this, generally have a thick slab usually laminated and will resist deforming and can be flattened again if it moves.
Often a precision instrument for those who don't have a planer and don't want to sand, as Cosman jokes I've never coughed out a shaving.

All the best
Tom


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

So just that I understand you, are you talking about me prepping the wood that I am going to use for the bench, or prepping wood that I will use for other projects on my bench?

Because I am very familiar with banana shaped pine from our local merchant, and having the option to sort that before assembly would be useful. 

My floating desk (about 2 and half metres) is made from oak and it was fine when it arrived and still good now - price was reflected in that.

Matt Estlea used this Valchromat stuff, which I'm interested in, shouldn't have any issues with that being all kind of shapes, but again price will reflect it.


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## Cabinetman (27 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Well initially I was going to use them as cubby holes, not even sure if the term exists, but they are known as 'Cubbies' in my design application - well that's what I labelled them. So I was going to use them to hold various things such as pencils, or craft knife, I don't know - just thought they would be useful. But then I got inspired by Matt Estlea's design, and I'm still kind of thinking about them. Aesthetically I like them.


 No sorry, I meant the Matt Eastlea design with all the holes in the top I’ve seen several people on here refer to them but I can’t imagine what they’re all for. 
Cubbies, yes I know what they are, the Americans have been keen on them for a long time.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> No sorry, I meant the Matt Eastlea design with all the holes in the top I’ve seen several people on here refer to them but I can’t imagine what they’re all for.
> Cubbies, yes I know what they are, the Americans have been keen on them for a long time.



He uses it for his track saw. I think in one of videos he explains it all. I'll see if I can find it.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

Yes for projects after the bench, as you will have a job
making a bench without a bench.

Yes you can pay through the nose for timber to be planed.
That doesn't guarantee anything when you wish to cut timber with the saw, as internal stresses will be relieved after being cut.
Even acclimatizing perfect timber in your workshop is good enough to make things all wonky.
Surfacing can't really be avoided, unless you wish to do site work or make carpentry stuff for outside.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

It's in here somewhere.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Yes for projects after the bench, as you will have a job
> making a bench without a bench.
> 
> Yes you can pay through the nose for timber to be planed.
> ...



So any advice? Get a decent thickener and sound proof my workshop?


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

The Darkside awaits


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> The Darkside awaits



What is this darkside???


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> The Darkside awaits



Indeed, come on over.....









Stuff for my BA submission in August. AKA Welcome to The Dark Side.


Currently working on my submission for a BA in carving and I've been working on a carved chest made from one of these, converted by riving..... The front is joined and carved and the lid, back and sides are plain wainscott. With these panels as infill on the front... I made this...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Hmm, looks like the website you are referring to is no longer active.


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## Cabinetman (27 Apr 2021)

Hi thanks yes got it now it’s one of those tracksawthings, by the time you bought all that kit and faffed about I suspect you could’ve bought some decent equipment. I think once you’re on that treadmill/slippery slope it’s just a never-ending way of getting you to buy more and more bits of kit (expensive as well) And a lot of it is green.
Oh yes the darkside! Where tracksaws and parfs are refused entry.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

That might include everyone who chooses not/can't afford to have a planer or thicknesser, or who has one now but the emphasis is still on hand work.

Some go so far as not the have any electricity at all, maybe light bulbs but that's about it!
Many are somewhere in the middle.

The one thing in common with all is the workbench, regardless of design
they are all big slabs of timber for good reason.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Hmm, looks like the website you are referring to is no longer active.


Try it again.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Oh I get it. So there are two kinds here. Those who recognise its 2021 and those who don't. Am I right?


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Before I critique, who is responsible?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Careful!

You might even learn something about wood from a sandal wearer.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

If you knew what I did for a living you wouldn't expose me to whatever that is.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

But let me tell you about economics.

You will pay upwards of £200 per cubic foot of good oak.

I pay less than £200 for two cubic meters of premium oak delivered into my garden.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

That's why I can afford to swan about all day in my garden and you have to go to work.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Adam W. said:


> But let me tell you about economics.
> 
> You will pay upwards of £200 per cubic foot of good oak.
> 
> I pay less than £200 for two cubic meters of premium oak delivered into my garden.



ooh, Metric vs Imperial. Starts wars you know.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

But try and order 1/27th of a cubic meter of oak and see what reaction you get from the man covered in sawdust.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

My girlfriends old man is all over the imperials. If it's not in millimetres I switch off.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

This may be wrong, but I hope actually making the things is easier than designing it in 3D. Now that was a faff.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Putting our differences aside for a moment.....and that a pencil and paper may be very last century, but it is easier.

The dovetail can be the full width of the stretcher if it's off the ground.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Adam W. said:


> Putting our differences aside for a moment.....and that a pencil and paper may be very last century, but it is easier.
> 
> The dovetail can be the full width of the stretcher if it's off the ground.



I do both. But I can't do these kind of renders on a piece of paper. Plus in my youth I was very much into this kind of stuff.

The stretcher isn't off the ground, its on the same level.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Why, you'll stub your toes ?


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Shouldn't do, its going to be pinched in from the worktop.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Then you've got a bit of a short grain issue under the pin.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

How so?


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

So it’s not strong enough to support? Couldn’t I add multiple pins?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Hmm. It's a load of work and you risk shearing off the short grain piece when you cut it.

Rebate the leg to the thickness of the stretcher and use 3 pre-drilled and countersunk long screws to screw it on flush.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Yeah that’s an option, as long as I can hide the screws somehow.


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## Spectric (27 Apr 2021)

Is the workbench not just a means to an end, in other words what is important is what comes off it at the end and not on what it's made or whether the guys using state of the art tools or wearing sandles and waving a small axe that is unless your business is making workbenches.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

I don’t agree. I think it can be however you want it to be.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Going to have to rebate the leg on both axis. Wouldn't it be easier just to use Tenons?


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

You could, but you'd have to either peg it together or screw through the tenon.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Hmm, suppose I could screw it from beneath.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Spectric said:


> Is the workbench not just a means to an end, in other words what is important is what comes off it at the end and not on what it's made or whether the guys using state of the art tools or wearing sandles and waving a small axe that is unless your business is making workbenches.


Nice put down, thanks.

Maybe Bloc75 wants to learn something, meet some people and enjoy himself while he's making the bench.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Hmm, suppose I could screw it from beneath.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

I'm just wondering why you want the stretchers on the ground, as it might make it tricky to level the bench ?


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Well I could raise them, but how will that improve the joints or balance the bench.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

It makes the joints easy, as you can use the lap dovetail on all sides and eliminate the short grain which will make it stronger, and you'll be able to level the bench easier as you have less surface area in contact with the floor.

Once it's made and in position, level it up and just run a pencil or dividers along the floor and mark around the legs and cut where required.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Oh I get it. So there are two kinds here. Those who recognise its 2021 and those who don't. Am I right?


The fact is that unless you have a decent planer and thicknesser
then you will either need to use a big jig setup for the router for surfacing which looks faff and space consuming to me...
Or get/make yourself a bench with the hand planes which has been _and still is _the best method for surfacing timber without a industrial setup.

Why is it the best, you may ask...
Try getting/finding a video of someone producing an invisible edge joint with any other tool that's not a machine.
(A very common thing to do, to make up wider or thicker stock)

One could try sanding but why would anyone try and abrade a surface rather than cut it, either slower or an imprecise tool will be used
and then you've got the noise and more importantly the dust to deal with.

I reluctantly agree that you could learn quite a lot from the man in the sandals, 
Even though I don't agree with most of his methods, we share the same ethos of having a bench as the fundamental tool, and having a capable bandsaw as the no.1 machine of choice.
Many would agree as everything else can be done with other methods.

It's not a case of a nod to the past or something, planes are still efficient tools.
As you may have noticed if you've heard the names, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas,
Clifton, and Quangsheng to name but a few.
Why would these brands be in existence when you can easily pick up a perfectly good Stanley or Record plane for less than a quarter of the price on eBay.

Tom


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## Jameshow (27 Apr 2021)

Why not let the guy build HIS workbench the way HE wants too. 

Why do we all have to be cookie cutter woodworkers when it comes to tools, methods styles and levels. 

I'm a lousy woodworker but I enjoy it, have been roasted a few times, but I'm not as bad as I was. 

Woodworking is as much for me a means of enjoyment and keeping my head together in trying times as it is about perfection and quality of work! 

Cheers James


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> The fact is that unless you have a decent planer and thicknesser
> then you will either need to use a big jig setup for the router for surfacing which looks faff and space consuming to me...
> Or get/make yourself a bench with the hand planes which has been _and still is _the best method for surfacing timber without a industrial setup.
> 
> ...



If you're referring to me, I don't have a bandsaw.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Adam W. said:


> It makes the joints easy, as you can use the lap dovetail on all sides and eliminate the short grain which will make it stronger, and you'll be able to level the bench easier as you have less surface area in contact with the floor.
> 
> Once it's made and in position, level it up and just run a pencil or dividers along the floor and mark around the legs and cut where required.



I think I understand, as before when it was lower to the ground (the leg with the tail), there is less wood at the end, hence weaker. Makes sense.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Ttrees said:


> The fact is that unless you have a decent planer and thicknesser
> then you will either need to use a big jig setup for the router for surfacing which looks faff and space consuming to me...
> Or get/make yourself a bench with the hand planes which has been _and still is _the best method for surfacing timber without a industrial setup.
> 
> ...



Yeah I was kidding mainly. I watched a guy do a mortise and tenon on youtube the other day, and it was 20 minutes of serene perfection.


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Why not let the guy build HIS workbench the way HE wants too.
> 
> Why do we all have to be cookie cutter woodworkers when it comes to tools, methods styles and levels.
> 
> ...



Yeah, pretty much where I am.


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Yes, that's it.

Short grain is carpenter speak to confuse others who are not in the club. Joiners use words like dado and fillister because they are posh and stay indoors all the time.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

No Adam, don't know what footwear you wear, as you are truly on the dark side, I wouldn't think I'd be far wrong by saying that you may have thought of making your own footwear at some point?

I along whom I think is the sandal wearer are firmly in both camps.
I may treat my bench with a bit more respect, since I'm not planning on making another bench to replace it for a bunch of videos.

Tom


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## Bloc75 (27 Apr 2021)

I’m inside and outside. But either way, it’s been educational last few days on here.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Yeah I was kidding mainly. I watched a guy do a mortise and tenon on youtube the other day, and it was 20 minutes of serene perfection.


Then why not make a traditional bench and use your computer design skills to work around that?
Just saying if you learn to use a hand plane well, then your skills will ZOOM up the ladder in a lot of areas.
I fear that you will get stuck or into trouble with the saw if you aren't able to prepare timber.

Surely you have seen a shooting board for basic tasks
(An attempt to lure you into the dark side, or indeed that gray area where many dwell)

All the best
Tom


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## Adam W. (27 Apr 2021)

Beware The Dark Side, there be inches.


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## Spectric (27 Apr 2021)

Adam W. said:


> Nice put down, thanks.


Not a put down but an observation, all to easy to get stuck on the starting grid.


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## Ttrees (27 Apr 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Why not let the guy build HIS workbench the way HE wants too.


That wouldn't be an issue if the OP has the machinery to accompany a bench solely for what I believe is considered a "hybrid" woodworking bench, 
(basically something a bit fancy for holding your work whilst you use a domino/tracksaw)
Easily done with some f clamps on a trad bench.

Maybe I'm wrong on my hybrid comment, as some might refer to Rob Cosman as that?
I just consider that a modern furniture making setup on the larger scale of things.

Tom


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## Pineapple (28 Apr 2021)

Bloc75 said:


> Never! My tools look good, and they need to be seen.


Is that so that any foolish visitor can gossip about your "very fine collection" of powertools in the pub; for alcoholic evesdroppers to think of them as a possible funding source for their habit ? - In wartime careless talk costs lives...In peacetime, it frequently costs livelihoods....!


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## HamsterJam (28 Apr 2021)

I’ve nearly finished building a workbench of sorts. 
Its not my primary workbench and replacing some cheap kitchen units under 3m solid worktop.
I used 3x2 CLS and simply lapped the joints. 
shelf under will be left over 18mm flooring chipboard. 
It’s pretty solid already but I plan to put back and sides on to stop it racking.


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## Cabinetman (28 Apr 2021)

Pineapple said:


> Is that so that any foolish visitor can gossip about your "very fine collection" of powertools in the pub; for alcoholic evesdroppers to think of them as a possible funding source for their habit ? - In wartime careless talk costs lives...In peacetime, it frequently costs livelihoods....!


 That’s the way I’ve always worked as well, my workshop looks nothing like a workshop from the outside, even the name board on the front of the building doesn’t give anything away, security is really good but I rely on nobody knowing it’s there as well.


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## jcassidy (28 Apr 2021)

@Block75, looks good to me. As you're looking for more an MFT (multi-functional-table?) and currently doing a lot of sanding of small bits, there are some cool ideas for downward sucking dust extraction which hold your work firm and extract dust. An air hockey table which sucks rather than blows. Hur hur.
You build it into the MFT.

As regards the discourse here, everyone has an opinion. Do what you want and live with the consequences, say I. Experience is the sum of all our mistakes...


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## thikone (28 Apr 2021)

This workbench design looks somewhat similar to what I have built, albeit it is from solid wood and heavy, to do hand planes dimensioning. So, the dark side bench I have:







I then added middle top part, so it actually looks like this:






It is build from countertops, basically, form 27 mm beech panels. Top is lamination of two layers, legs are 3 layers. The good thing is that I didn't have to cut any lap joints, I would simply cut some panels shorter before gluing them up. Also mortice and tenon joint becomes easy where there are three layers. What I can say for sure is that Veritas Twin Screw vice is just unbeatable, you should use it for your bench, regardless of dark side or not.

Otherwise, it is a pleasure to read this thread. Ttrees, you are the best!



Ttrees said:


> Why is it the best, you may ask...
> Try getting/finding a video of someone producing an invisible edge joint with any other tool that's not a machine.
> (A very common thing to do, to make up wider or thicker stock)



Over last 4 years I got so good with dimensioning wood with hand planes that sometimes I surprise myself, so well it and not so slow either. A good look, a touch to the grain, check for rocking on flat workbench and it doesn't take long to remove high spots and make it air stick to workbench. Even when planning 2 meters long, I can make parts so well that there is no gap to be seen. But it does take two weeks to dimension all parts sometimes, if not more.



Ttrees said:


> One could try sanding but why would anyone try and abrade a surface rather than cut it, either slower or an imprecise tool will be used
> and then you've got the noise and more importantly the dust to deal with.



College of mine is actually using a hand held band sander with a guide frame, which limits how deep it can sand into material:




Bosch PBS 75 A

It he doesn't like that process at all. Hand planes I can use with my kids around and result is much better and faster.



Ttrees said:


> Even though I don't agree with most of his methods, we share the same ethos of having a bench as the fundamental tool, and having a capable bandsaw as the no.1 machine of choice.
> Many would agree as everything else can be done with other methods.



I second that! Bandsaw was the only machine that I had for several years. I have a small one, Record Power BS250. I'm often buying 100x100 mm construction lumber and then cut it to smaller dimensions that I need, much cheaper and sometimes better wood. Also I resaw hardwoods after hand planning two sides of rough sawn timber. Now I have also a mortice and a drill press. All quiet enough for apartment use.



Ttrees said:


> Just saying if you learn to use a hand plane well, then your skills will ZOOM up the ladder in a lot of areas.



I agree a lot! Now, I can sharpen expensive kitchen knifes, thanks to experience and tools for sharpening hand plane blades and such. Finish after hand planes is so much better than after sandpaper. No sanding anymore, unless some curvy parts sometimes. Ability to tune parts to fit nicely. 



Ttrees said:


> Surely you have seen a shooting board for basic tasks



This is just so nice, that I sold my miter power saw as I didn't use it anymore for some years and then never wanted to. With some addons making boxes and frames is quite fun and easy task.



HamsterJam said:


> I used 3x2 CLS and simply lapped the joints.



Yep, lap joint is indeed so easy and about strong as mortice and tenon joint. Used that a lot in the beginning, for all my stands and workbench too.

Lately, since I rented another room in the basement, I'm slowly moving towards machines, acquired a track saw, huge bandsaw and prima jointer/thicknesser machine. Have to finish sound proofing the room first, and then I will have to learn how to do the same with machines... a bit scary too. And building something MFT-like for the basement machine room is in my plans. So, very interesting thread for me either way! Good luck with your design and build!


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## Ttrees (28 Apr 2021)

That's a very nice bench you've built, I think you're referring to either of the two David's rather than myself though.
All I have contributed to this forum is by dropping some names.
Good luck with the new workshop and machinery.

Tom


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