# Pocket Hole Jigs?



## diytoolbox (4 Dec 2021)

Are pocket hole jigs any good? I was looking at it, but thought well why not use dowels?
But it seems popular in some wood workers and hobbyists furniture makers, and there must be reasons for it?
Do you use it? What is the advantage of using pocket hole jigs? Or is it just a gimmick gadget?


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## recipio (4 Dec 2021)

Ha Ha...I think you will get lots of replies on here. They are an extremely useful tool as long as they are used properly. They are fine for faceframes, basic boxes and shelving etc. However they don't look very nice and are hopeless in any joint that is stressed.
On balance, if you get one you will use it !


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## Sporky McGuffin (4 Dec 2021)

I like mine (the Axi one). It's a quick and easy way to knock up joints in boards. I don't make furniture much, and what I do is utilitarian (mostly for the workshop) so fast beats pretty for me. 

I've not used a dowel jig so am not speaking from experience, but they look slower and fiddler, but with better looking results?


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## AES (4 Dec 2021)

Agreed. I'm definitely NOT a furniture maker, but used in the right place (IMO that = utilitarian), in the right way (placing of the joints, as per "the book"), and using the right screws (that'll start some howls I think!) then I find my Kreg K5 brilliant.


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## robgul (4 Dec 2021)

As suggested - in the right sort of job they're brilliant - I've been using them for quite a while with a Trend jig that clamps the wood and also a Kreg Jig Heavy Duty Pocket Hole Set Kit KJHD which has settings for different thicknesses of timber.


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## Droogs (4 Dec 2021)

I have used both dowels and pockethole screws to assemble the various cabinets and trolleys I use in my workshop. Currently I am remaking all my storage in a much more customized way for the tools I have to maximize the space in my little spot. All the cabinets are being put together using poketholes to save time and i know I will probably want to take it all apart again in the future and reuse the MDF. Where I know the cabinet or trolley will hold a lot of weight or have large stressess, I am reinforcing the joint with dowels, so a side to top/bottom butt joint will have at least 3 pocket screws with dowels fitted inbetween. so far so good and i have made my saw till, large corner cabinet for all my routers and my tracksaw and biscuit joiner stuff and have just finished my new plane till for all my planes, scrapers and spokeshaves (~150kg all in). they are sitting on French cleats and doing fine.

I bought the pockethole jig that Dennis of Hooked on Wood has when they first came out and copied his holding jig. Once done it is a quick and efficient way to get boards stuck together.


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## Droogs (4 Dec 2021)

Here is the jig I made, It has a centre out T-track ruler fitted to allow me to fit stops for repeated accurately spaced pockets. Push board in from left and use righthand ruler and then once passed the centre use the same numbers on the left edge to get matching holes.








20210821_191724.jpg


JPG Image



1drv.ms


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## diytoolbox (4 Dec 2021)

Sure, interesting stuff. I had a suspicion that pocket hole jigs are very popular.

One of my upcoming projects is making bookshelves and storage boxes with MDF or plywood. I will get a pocket hole jig for the project, and see how I get on. Initially I was intending to use dowels, but pocket hole jig could speed up the work, and sounds suitable for the practical uses.

Another point caught my attention was the price of pocket hole screws - not cheap £15 for 500 pack in smallest size? I just bought a pack of 1400x normal screws in mixed size for £12.

But then I guess that pocket hole screws are meant to be used for joining boards for some type of furniture type objects (number of the screws being used is usually limited compared to, or ), rather than building shed or covering floors or walls with sheets and the standard PH or PZ screws.


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## Just4Fun (4 Dec 2021)

I don't have a pocket hole jig but I have used the basic idea, just drilling angled holes freehand. Only on rough & ready DIY projects but in that context it works well enough. I think one advantage over dowels is that tightening the screws can pull the joint together but with dowels you may need a clamp or a persuader.


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## Droogs (4 Dec 2021)

With pocket holes there is a tendency for the board with the hole to shift slightly as it finally tightens up to the opposite board. Using a clamp or a dowel helps prevent any misalignment that can occur.


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## D_W (4 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> Another point I was a bit cautious about was the price of pocket hole screws - not cheap £15 for 500 pack in smallest size? I just bought a pack of 1400x normal screws in mixed size for £12.



There's some element of printer and ink model here. As in, if you use dowels, you probably have to buy dowels. But if you use screws, you're more likely to buy them from the company that makes the jig. 

Same with drill bits. 

Naturally, they're going to be marked up beyond market cost for screws and drill bits.


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## Peter Sefton (4 Dec 2021)

Not something I have used myself but Armor Tool have taken the old design and improved it, it's been a popular product with our customers.









Armor Tool Auto-Jig Pocket Hole System


The Armor Tool Auto-Jig Pocket Hole System is changing pocket hole joinery and the way you make pocket holes in your workshop.




woodworkersworkshop.co.uk


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## recipio (4 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> Another point I was a bit cautious about was the price of pocket hole screws - not cheap £15 for 500 pack in smallest size? I just bought a pack of 1400x normal screws in mixed size for £12.



I was an early adapter of the Kreg system having seen one at a show in the 1980's Having dismantled some of the early stuff I made I noted that the screws had rusted badly, especially in MDF. Kreg have moved on from steel screws and all their range are now coated in some form of zinc or tin coating. Well worth the money IMO if it prevents rusting.


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## AES (4 Dec 2021)

But the main point about using the special screws - and YES, they are expensive - is the fact that the head on every screw is a special, with a built-in "washer" as an integral part of the head. That may make them more expensive to manufacture - I'm sure it does actually - but as D-W has suggested above, the idea of the manufacturer is also, of course, to tie you to his screws.

However, there have been arguments on here in the past, about using ordinary round head screws - or even countersunk head screws (!!!) - with a normal washer under the head to spread the load where the bottom of the head sits against the top of the large diameter hole. Some say this works just as well as using the proper special screw, but without being able to really prove it, I say "nonsense". So I stick to the special screws. Just my opinion.


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## D_W (4 Dec 2021)

It's hard to believe that kreg/etc, wouldn't develop the jig and its use along with the screw design. Suggesting trying to come up with substitutes could fare better in some situations, but more likely fare worse. 

Designing the jig and its use so that it wouldn't work well with any standard setup would be smart engineering, though, too. Designing a jig that would work well with a standard industrial offering is a good way to go broke because the jig would sell immediately in great numbers and then the bottom would fall out when the market was saturated.


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## TRITON (4 Dec 2021)

D_W said:


> It's hard to believe that kreg/etc, wouldn't develop the jig and its use along with the screw design. Suggesting trying to come up with substitutes could fare better in some situations, but more likely fare worse.
> 
> Designing the jig and its use so that it wouldn't work well with any standard setup would be smart engineering, though, too. Designing a jig that would work well with a standard industrial offering is a good way to go broke because the jig would sell immediately in great numbers and then the bottom would fall out when the market was saturated.


Sorry, but do you mean to be used with countersunk screws rather than what they use(flat/washered type)


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## Insanity (4 Dec 2021)

Pocket holes are excellent, quick and simple. They're quite popular for drawer construction, as it's easy to hide the joinery. However, they're not so good with MDF as it's too soft and the joints are weak. You can glue the joints prior to screwing together to give it some extra strength.
You do need to use some of clamping as Droogs said, they will walk. Kreg sell a special clamp for pocket holes to stop this, but it's not really necessary. 
I have a trend plug cutter which I use to plug the holes if I need to, using offcuts of the same wood. You can use filler as well, but only if you're painting it. Finally I wouldn't get a cheap pocket hole jig, they're awful next to a kreg, etc. Well worth spending the extra money if you're going to use it frequently. 

Dowels can go wrong unless you have an accurate dowelling jig, but even then, you can be a millimetre out and it ruins the job. There's some really fancy dowelling jig being sold, they look decent, but I haven't tried them.


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## D_W (4 Dec 2021)

I'm not that familiar with what Kreg does, but what I mean is that if you use anything mechanically different than their screws and bits, it may not work as well in some situations. 

My point was that if I were designing and testing a jig (this is hypothetical, because I personally wouldn't operate like this, but if I had 100 employees and needed to pay for health care and salary, I would), I would make the hardware something proprietary and then even intentionally make the jig so that it would work better with the hardware than anything else that didn't get intellectual protections.


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## Daniel2 (4 Dec 2021)

I use mine a lot.
Usually I team them up with biscuits and glue, though.
Fabulous for carcass work or drawers.


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## hunter27 (4 Dec 2021)

The Wolfcraft kit I bought came with countersunk screws which I wasn't to keen on.


https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61o+nbKS2ML._AC_SL1000_.jpg


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## AES (4 Dec 2021)

I zoomed up the pic as big as it would go, and it does look as though those screws are all CS. In which case, IMO anyway, that's bloody daft! Especially since from what I could see of the drill bit in the linked pic, the large diameter is indeed designed to produce a flat bottomed hole. Wolf stuff is generally quite good IME (e.g. I have several of their 1-handed clamps) but this time they seem to have gone completely "off thread"!

Still at least the screws aren't those bloody daft Robertson square drive head jobbies (IMO again - stirring up another hornet's nest no doubt). All been discussed here before, several times.


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## niemeyjt (4 Dec 2021)

Not sure how easy it is to obtain this in the UK, but it looks interesting compared to the Foreman:


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## robgul (4 Dec 2021)

niemeyjt said:


> Not sure how easy it is to obtain this in the UK, but it looks interesting compared to the Foreman:



Stumpy Nubs on YT has shown the Castle machine recently - pretty good . . . and Brad at Fix This Build That on YT has a pretty cool Kreg automatic machine


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## TRITON (4 Dec 2021)

hunter27 said:


> The Wolfcraft kit I bought came with countersunk screws which I wasn't to keen on.
> 
> 
> https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61o+nbKS2ML._AC_SL1000_.jpg


Thats a bit nuts because if you put a countersunk screw into a flat bottomed hole it acts like a wedge and can split the timber givent he top of the hole is usually close to the surface. I know this because i tried to use them when out of proper pocket screws.


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## gcusick (4 Dec 2021)

I’ve got the Trend jig, moved over to pocket screws for utilitarian boxes, cabinets etc. after a long while using dowels. The pocket screws are *much* faster than dowels, and, provided you design the joints appropriately, ie using the screws to locate the joint and hold it together rather than as the primary strength element, they work well. As Droogs said, you do need to clamp the joints while inserting the screws otherwise there’s a tendency for the joint to shift, but that’s straightforward enough.


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## Jones (4 Dec 2021)

I have the trend jig and use it quite a lot with ply with mdf the holding can be less secure. You can get unbranded wafer head screws cheaper, though not as cheap as mass produced counter sunk ones.


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## sometimewoodworker (5 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> Are pocket hole jigs any good? I was looking at it, but thought well why not use dowels?
> But it seems popular in some wood workers and hobbyists furniture makers, and there must be reasons for it?
> Do you use it? What is the advantage of using pocket hole jigs? Or is it just a gimmick gadget?


Though I have a good doweling jig it has not been out of its box in 20 years. I use Dominoes for location and pocket screws for holding and clamping. Before I got the Domino I clamped the joints but they moved once too often so I switched to locating with the domino. 

You can certainly use a couple of dowels for the same job but they ave to be exact for that to work while you can always add a little extra wiggle with the domino if neede.

for those who complain at the cost for Kreg screws compared to a cheap wood screw, you really should be comparing them to high quality screws as they are engineered and made to a far better standard with both fine and course thread versions all with self cutting slots and are case hardened zinc coated. They don’t split the wood unless put in far too close to the end. Not only all that but how much do the screws in your project actually cost as a percentage? 0.5% or less?


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## Craig22 (5 Dec 2021)

No one has mentioned biscuits. Now I have the Kreg pocket hole jig, and a filled pocket is just fine under veneer. But biscuits are another joint alternative to dowels or pocket hole.

The late and very great James Krenov used dowels in most of his stunning and very characteristic cabinets. But he said that if biscuits had been available when he was making, he would have used them in a heartbeat.


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## robgul (5 Dec 2021)

Craig22 said:


> No one has mentioned biscuits. Now I have the Kreg pocket hole jig, and a filled pocket is just fine under veneer. But biscuits are another joint alternative to dowels or pocket hole.
> 
> The late and very great James Krenov used dowels in most of his stunning and very characteristic cabinets. But he said that if biscuits had been available when he was making, he would have used them in a heartbeat.


Another biscuit user here - they're quick, easy and cheap . . . joining pallet strips works well to make wider boards for some of the rustic products I make and sell


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## Oakay (5 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> Are pocket hole jigs any good? I was looking at it, but thought well why not use dowels?
> But it seems popular in some wood workers and hobbyists furniture makers, and there must be reasons for it?
> Do you use it? What is the advantage of using pocket hole jigs? Or is it just a gimmick gadget?


Yes they are excellent in many situations. Especially as side grain of mdf holds the thread of a screw much better than end grain mdf which tends to split. Coarse thread screws are worth paying the extra for as metal is stronger than wood so it leaves more wood between the threads to resist the screw. Torx heads are far better than square drive. Hope that helps. Screw joints are immediate. Dowel joints require adhesive.


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## Oakay (5 Dec 2021)

Insanity said:


> Pocket holes are excellent, quick and simple. They're quite popular for drawer construction, as it's easy to hide the joinery. However, they're not so good with MDF as it's too soft and the joints are weak. You can glue the joints prior to screwing together to give it some extra strength.
> You do need to use some of clamping as Droogs said, they will walk. Kreg sell a special clamp for pocket holes to stop this, but it's not really necessary.
> I have a trend plug cutter which I use to plug the holes if I need to, using offcuts of the same wood. You can use filler as well, but only if you're painting it. Finally I wouldn't get a cheap pocket hole jig, they're awful next to a kreg, etc. Well worth spending the extra money if you're going to use it frequently.
> 
> Dowels can go wrong unless you have an accurate dowelling jig, but even then, you can be a millimetre out and it ruins the job. There's some really fancy dowelling jig being sold, they look decent, but I haven't tried them.


Kreg is not the only option for a good small jig. We have 2 types of good small alternative jigs UKJ and Trend and a Kreg Foreman which is faster and the light weight construction makes it easy to store and move around.


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## Daniel2 (5 Dec 2021)

Craig22 said:


> No one has mentioned biscuits. Now I have the Kreg pocket hole jig, and a filled pocket is just fine under veneer. But biscuits are another joint alternative to dowels or pocket hole.
> 
> The late and very great James Krenov used dowels in most of his stunning and very characteristic cabinets. But he said that if biscuits had been available when he was making, he would have used them in a heartbeat.



See post 19.


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## Oakay (5 Dec 2021)

robgul said:


> Another biscuit user here - they're quick, easy and cheap . . . joining pallet strips works well to make wider boards for some of the rustic products I make and sell


All these joints have their advantages in different situations and there are also other situations where it is down to personal preference.


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## robgul (5 Dec 2021)

Oakay said:


> Yes they are excellent in many situations. Especially as side grain of mdf holds the thread of a screw much better than end grain mdf which tends to split. Coarse thread screws are worth paying the extra for as metal is stronger than wood so it leaves more wood between the threads to resist the screw. Torx heads are far better than square drive. Hope that helps. Screw joints are immediate. Dowel joints require adhesive.



That's the first time I've seen MDF referred to as having "grain"  . . . I know what you mean though.


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## hlvd (5 Dec 2021)

They're great for applications that won't be seen, a surprisingly strong joint as well.


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## AES (5 Dec 2021)

sometimewoodworker said:


> for those who complain at the cost for Kreg screws compared to a cheap wood screw, you really should be comparing them to high quality screws as they are engineered and made to a far better standard with both fine and course thread versions all with self cutting slots and are case hardened zinc coated. They don’t split the wood unless put in far too close to the end. Not only all that but how much do the screws in your project actually cost as a percentage? 0.5% or less?



Agree 100%. Haven't used the Kreg PH screws for long enough to be sure - and so far haven't taken any PH joints apart either (I usually glue mine as well) - but looking carefully at those screws, I'd say longevity will be another bonus from using "the right screw" for the job.


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## Stevekane (5 Dec 2021)

Are the newer Trend Jigs adjustable for different thicknesses of material? I have two of the Trends, very nicely made in quality wooden boxes but the “towers” do not adjust in height which you need if your going to use longer screws on thicker material, where as the Kregs adjust, I dont understand why Trend didnt follow suit?
Just as a matter if interest I “pocket holed” some 75mm outdoor table legs located in housing joints, I marked out the distance to place the screw exit central on the material using the same screw angle as Kreg, a small forstner bit gave me a flat bottom to my predrilled holes and I whacked in some 150mm x 10mm washer headed decking screws that had a 10mm bolt head, very snug with two of those in each joint.
Steve.


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## gcusick (5 Dec 2021)

Stevekane said:


> Are the newer Trend Jigs adjustable for different thicknesses of material? I have two of the Trends, very nicely made in quality wooden boxes but the “towers” do not adjust in height which you need if your going to use longer screws on thicker material, where as the Kregs adjust, I dont understand why Trend didnt follow suit?
> Just as a matter if interest I “pocket holed” some 75mm outdoor table legs located in housing joints, I marked out the distance to place the screw exit central on the material using the same screw angle as Kreg, a small forstner bit gave me a flat bottom to my predrilled holes and I whacked in some 150mm x 10mm washer headed decking screws that had a 10mm bolt head, very snug with two of those in each joint.
> Steve.


The Trend Pro jig is adjustable for material thickness, if I remember correctly, from 13-38mm. Comes with a simple setting gauge for adjusting the drill depth, and a pair of extension arms that help support wide workpieces.


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## Oakay (5 Dec 2021)

robgul said:


> That's the first time I've seen MDF referred to as having "grain"  . . . I know what you mean though.


Strictly speaking, layers, due to the pressing during manufacture.


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## accipiter (5 Dec 2021)

I'm intrigued by this type of fixing - although admit to some confusion in regards to the one I recently purchased from Yandle's in their Black Friday sales:
*Titman Edge SUPER KIT Pocket Hole Jig With 1150 Mixed Pocket Hole Screws.*


It has a boat load of screws, the drive bit and drill bit along with the jig but I was having trouble working out "how" to use the jig until doing a Google search and finding a video on it on YouTube. Not "the best" tutorial but think I've got the idea. Put along side some of the other jigs I've seen videos of it seems quite a basic one - and not "super" at all 

Oh! I did buy a bigger and better one over at Bang Good a while ago which is quite heavy - yet to use it as I've not had a job to use it on. Think I got the Titman because of all those screws with it


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## AES (5 Dec 2021)

@accipiter:

Well I did watch that YouTube clip, basically because I'd not heard of the Titman version.

I agree, as a "tutorial" the vid is little better than a chocolate teapot, but as you say, "the ideas/principles" ares there in the clip.

If you want a better tutorial I'd recommend looking for the Kreg K5 on YouTube. Yeah, you've got the Titman not the Kreg now, but if you look at the Kreg you'll see many similarities to the Titman (and areas where, in terms of ease of set up and use, the Kreg is better - IMO anyway, and without having used the Titman of course).

I don't know how much the Titman cost, but with "a boatload of screws" included, it looks alright, apart from my personal dislike of square drive heads.

But it looks like the Titman will do the job (though are the holes a little too shallow, as seen in the vid?) and unless you're turning out loads and loads of such joints, I wouldn't think you'd need more than 1 PH jig anyway.


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## D_W (5 Dec 2021)

Do they make a version for leg men?

If that joke has been made already, my apologies - I didn't read back though, but i can't believe I'd be the first to say it.


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## Daniel2 (5 Dec 2021)

D_W said:


> Do they make a version for leg men?
> 
> If that joke has been made already, my apologies - I didn't read back though, but i can't believe I'd be the first to say it.



Oh yes. You're the first.


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## accipiter (5 Dec 2021)

@AES 

Thanks - appreciate your comment. 

These are photos of the kit with screws - the longest being 2"... 50mm and the shortest 1" or 25mm... Didn't come in the kit box as shown in the video but this Stanley storage box.

The other one from Bang Good only came with about 20 screws - two little bags - but you can adjust the width for the pocket holes and clamp the wood in and most likely fix it to a board... I haven't delved deeper in to its use yet. I do think I can make use of both 'though I agree I probablyonly need one


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## D_W (5 Dec 2021)

Daniel2 said:


> Oh yes. You're the first.



Can't help it, never grew up.

There's an insurance agent just down the street from my house "Titsworth Insurance Agency"

My wife gets mad when I say "don't you think there's an apostrophe missing in the name of that Agency?"

We are truly an enlightened society when you can buy something from titman on Banggood and it's a truthful statement and nothing profane is purchased or used.


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## accipiter (5 Dec 2021)

D_W said:


> Can't help it, never grew up.
> 
> There's an insurance agent just down the street from my house "Titsworth Insurance Agency"







> We are truly an enlightened society when you can buy something from titman on Banggood and it's a truthful statement and nothing profane is purchased or used.



Sorry @D_W my earlier post said the Titman (go on...) was from Yandle's (with apostrophe ) while the silver coloured one is from Bang Good... 

(But I know what you mean... )


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## jcassidy (5 Dec 2021)

D_W said:


> Can't help it, never grew up.



Reminds me why the terminals in Unix / Linux systems are referred to as TTYs.


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## Spectric (5 Dec 2021)

I have the Kreg jig and it is really useful but only in the right situation, the other Kreg jig that has not been mentioned is the HD version that is also very good, again in the right situation. Kreg Jig Heavy Duty Pocket Hole Set Kit KJHD 

I have used these for noggins on stud work where they are all in line rather than toe nailing, on a 4 by 2 I have used two pocket holes on each end of the noggin but keeping them all opposite each other and they are strong enough to stand on.


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## Stevekane (5 Dec 2021)

accipiter said:


> @AES
> 
> Thanks - appreciate your comment.
> 
> ...


Hi, the Bang Good one looks great and is similar to the Trend ones I have except I only have one pair of guides, Im assuming that they have approached the problem of centering the screw exit hole on thicker material by giving you a steeper angle?


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## Droogs (5 Dec 2021)

The jig has a sliding scale that allows you to set the depth according to the material thickness. The hooked on wood china tools 21 (I think ) video is an indepth review



Edit

Here is the video


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## accipiter (5 Dec 2021)

Stevekane said:


> Hi, the Bang Good one looks great and is similar to the Trend ones I have except I only have one pair of guides, Im assuming that they have approached the problem of centering the screw exit hole on thicker material by giving you a steeper angle?



I've yet to use it so couldn't say... Sorry. Hopefully at some point next year I'll have a better idea. I've seen they can be useful and I need to redo my small workshop with units.


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## sometimewoodworker (6 Dec 2021)

accipiter said:


> I'm intrigued by this type of fixing - although admit to some confusion in regards to the one I recently purchased from Yandle's in their Black Friday sales:
> *Titman Edge SUPER KIT Pocket Hole Jig With 1150 Mixed Pocket Hole Screws.*
> 
> It has a boat load of screws, the drive bit and drill bit along with the jig but I was having trouble working out "how" to use the jig until doing a Google search and finding a video on it on YouTube. Not "the best" tutorial but think I've got the idea. Put along side some of the other jigs I've seen videos of it seems quite a basic one - and not "super" at all



I would say that it’s very much more than basic. If you want to take the jig to the work rather than taking the work to the jig.

it has a few additions that are extremely convenient.

As to how to use it, once you’ve used any pocket hole jig (and probably made a mistake or two) you know how to use any other pocket hole jig. It probably took all of a couple of minuets to get the principal then over time a couple of mistakes to remember to set the 3 important points of any jig.

1) set the jig so a hole drilled directly through the center of the jig will emerge in the centre of the workpiece (note this is a theoretical hole not a real one)

2) set the pocket hole drill depth so it just doesn’t exit the workpiece (probably the first mistake a new user makes is to drill too deep DAMHIKT)

3) don’t put pocket holes too close to the ends of a board, (if you do they will probably split 1 or both workpieces

number 4 is not the jig but the screws; use the correct length, correct thread, correct head (they are washer head) and don’t overdrive them.


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## accipiter (6 Dec 2021)

@sometimewoodworker  thanks, I agree with your assessment although when saying "basic" I was meaning as far as the small size and limitations with the two fixed holes whereas the 2nd one I posted pics of is adjustable for width between holes. I do see the advantages of both.

You've hit 4 holes in one with your list for using any pocket hole jig. As I've yet to use either I've yet to work through that list - especially I'm thinking the screws in respect of coarse or fine thread and the length to use. Unfortunately neither of the jigs I've got came with any instructions or guidelines. When the time comes and I start "experimenting" I'll come here and ask for assistance for sure - although I'll be watching a few YT videos which brought this system to my attention.

Thanks again


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## Stevekane (6 Dec 2021)

Droogs said:


> The jig has a sliding scale that allows you to set the depth according to the material thickness. The hooked on wood china tools 21 (I think ) video is an indepth review
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hello Droogs, I think your video and our friends Bang Good models are different,,I cannot see any means of raiseing the towers on the BG and the one in your video doesnt have the extra pair of holes!


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## Droogs (6 Dec 2021)

This is the one I have. If you look at the picture of the insert block you will see the scale on the side, 2nd last picture 









XK-2 Aluminum Alloy Pocket Hole Jig System Woodworking Drill Guide with Toggle Clamp 9.5mm Step Drill Bits


Only US$83.99, buy best XK-2 Aluminum Alloy Pocket Hole Jig System Woodworking Drill Guide with Toggle Clamp 9.5mm Step Drill Bits sale online store at wholesale price.




uk.banggood.com


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## sometimewoodworker (6 Dec 2021)

accipiter said:


> @sometimewoodworker  thanks, I agree with your assessment although when saying "basic" I was meaning as far as the small size and limitations with the two fixed holes whereas the 2nd one I posted pics of is adjustable for width between holes. I do see the advantages of both.
> 
> You've hit 4 holes in one with your list for using any pocket hole jig. As I've yet to use either I've yet to work through that list - especially I'm thinking the screws in respect of coarse or fine thread and the length to use. Unfortunately neither of the jigs I've got came with any instructions or guidelines. When the time comes and I start "experimenting" I'll come here and ask for assistance for sure - although I'll be watching a few YT videos which brought this system to my attention.
> 
> Thanks again



thread selection is simple, fine is for hard wood for almost everything including plywood, composit boards, chipboard, softwood use the course thread.




and here is the instructions 


https://www.kregtool.com/on/demandware.static/-/Library-Sites-RefArchSharedLibrary/default/dw9c8fc95d/manuals/K4_NA.pdf


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## accipiter (6 Dec 2021)

Thank you @sometimewoodworker very useful


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## Oakay (6 Dec 2021)

sometimewoodworker said:


> thread selection is simple, fine is for hard wood for almost everything including plywood, composit boards, chipboard, softwood use the course thread.
> View attachment 123524
> 
> and here is the instructions
> ...


In my experience the coarse thread is better with all types of wood and essential with softer materials.


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## sometimewoodworker (6 Dec 2021)

Oakay said:


> In my experience the coarse thread is better with all types of wood and essential with softer materials.


Mostly I agree, though for the really hard wood I get here the fine is better .


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## diytoolbox (7 Dec 2021)

I hear some youtubers saying that pocket hole screw joins are weaker than the other methods of joining. Is this true? Should glue be used with the pocket hole joining all the time?


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## Droogs (7 Dec 2021)

Unless you plan to take the cabinet etc apart at some time then yes you should glue up the joint when you assemble it.


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## sometimewoodworker (7 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> I hear some youtubers saying that pocket hole screw joins are weaker than the other methods of joining. Is this true? Should glue be used with the pocket hole joining all the time?


They are absolutely correct a pure pocket hole joint is weaker than some other joints for example the finger joints in this construction 

some joints are weaker than pocket hole joints an example is many mitre joints.

however the real point is not are there stronger joints but is the joint strong enough for the job. Also is the construction method the best one or at least good enough.

I usually add glue to my pocket hole joints I have not had one failure.


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## Spectric (7 Dec 2021)

diytoolbox said:


> I hear some youtubers saying that pocket hole screw joins are weaker than the other methods of joining. Is this true?


Most jointing methods can be weaker than other methods if used in the wrong application, just need the right joint for the task in hand. Pocket holes and glue are a good method of making face frames and cabinets but for cabinets there are other options.


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## sometimewoodworker (7 Dec 2021)

Spectric said:


> Most jointing methods can be weaker than other methods if used in the wrong application, just need the right joint for the task in hand. Pocket holes and glue are a good method of making face frames and cabinets but for cabinets there are other options.


Absolutely.

this makes use of pocket holes




glued and Dominoes for location 




a stronger joint would be to run stopped dados and slot the shelves into them. It would also have doubled or tripled the time requirements with no benefit in this case.

as @spetric said you choose the joint for the job you are doing and time you wish to spend, most correctly designed pieces can use a wide range of joints any of which will do the job


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## diytoolbox (8 Dec 2021)

Sure. I used my pocket hole jig and screws to fix seat of a broken old chair. It worked OK. I used wood glue before putting the screws in, and the chair seems now very solid. It was not simple process. But it definitely has its uses on some applications as has been said many times in this thread. The pocket hole screws were under the chair seat, so they are not visible. 

The old chair's seat had been made with 6 separate pieces of boards glued together. When the chair was stored in the shed, it had damp and cold, and the glue just disintegrated giving up the seat structure. Had to clamp the boards into the seat form, and pocket hole screws joined them.


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## diytoolbox (9 Dec 2021)

This youtuber says you don't need the special pocket hole screws or drill bits. Normal screws and drill bits work well.


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