# Workshop/Shed build



## Joe Shmoe (24 Apr 2011)

Yo, So continuing on from this thread in the General section, now that work has started I am posting here instead.   

workshop-roof-t46774.html


To date: I had a load of wood that I got half-price, so had to work around what I had, which has thrown a few problems. I also changed a few design details as I went along, which is probably why I am having the grief I am now having.... haha, oh well I have learnt that you should start with a complete plan of action before cutting anything..... Anyway I am at the following stage : Four walls built, but now having problems with the roof. :evil: 







I was planning on having a flat roof (as discussed on previous thread) but as OLD pointed out previously, I would need to buy some 6x2s to safely span - so instead I am chaning to an Apex design in the hope that I can get this built without having to buy any additional timber. I have 20 lengths of 3.6m 4x2 remaining, and a quarter have some bad warps, so its gonna be tight.  

Here is a sketch-up of my latest roof plan. The trusses will be spaced approx 450mm and have 12mm Plywood gussets (which I have not drawn in Sketch-up). I was unsure if they need an upright in the middle (what is that called, a king-post or something?)

Anyway - two questions.

One: Will this design be robust enough to span the walls , which are 2.8m apart ?
Two: If it IS strong enough, could I push the new design one step further and raise the chord (second pic) or would that weaken it ?


Bottom chord sits on wall plates:





Raised bottom chord:


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## kingcod (24 Apr 2011)

Looking at your sketchup design I'd suggest the rafters need to sit on your top plate with a birds mouth cut out, and your chord/ joist then fix onto the sides of the rafter rather than the rafter sitting on top.

Alternatively, as you say, you could raise the chord/joist up and turn it into a rafter tie or collar tie. I think it should be no more than two thirds the way up the height of the roof space . I read this here : http://www.nachi.org/forum/f23/high-do- ... eed-24120/ 

I doubt you would need a king post or queen posts for a roof of this size.


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## bosshogg (24 Apr 2011)

There are no problems raising your collars up 1/3 of the rafter height, you can either cut them full width and cut the angles after nailing them to the sides of the rafters, or cut them to fit under the rafters, and fit gussets to these, this will add strength to the roof structure, the gusset should cut from 3/8" ext ply and glued and screwed. At 2.8 span 2x4"s will be OK for rafters and collars, you should alternate the warp on any sticks up and down as collars, you can then spike a couple of purlins on top of these (all collars) this will take most of the warp out, also the bent up batons will drop with time, especially if you store anything with weight up there...bosshogg


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## Joe Shmoe (2 May 2011)

hi all, here is the latest progress on my shed, and I am stuck so need some help if anyone could be so kind ?






The OSB3 sheets currently overhang the end of the trusses by around 60mm (as per photo) and I still need to install a fascia, which I was thinking of using 19x100mm treated softwood. I want to use Onduline sheets for the roof covering, so by the time I have let that overhang the OSB by a small distance (say 50mm), the edge of the Onduline will be so far from the fascia, that it will overhang the gutter.

Do I need to trim down the OSB so that it ends flush with the fascia, and then install the Onduline with a 50mm overlap so it will hang nicely into a gutter? Or should I use a 2x4 to packout along the length of the shed, and then install a thin facsia to that ? I am concerned that I will get splashback from the gutter and it will hit the OSB so what should I do about that? Will it be okay or do I need to install some kind of plastic Drip-edge ?

Also, I am unsure about condensation forming under the Onduline, so do I need to cover the OSB with a roofing felt first ? I suppose if I covered the whole roof with Wickes Shed-felt (for example) I could run the felt down the fascia and then any splashes from the Gutter area would not hit the OSB? However, felt has a shorter life that the OSB so how would that work ?

Sorry for rambling, but I am confused so any tips would be awesome!
Thanks guys!


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## bosshogg (2 May 2011)

Your build is looking very good, one thing the corner baton to your shiplap/T & G should project beyond the line of their end grain, this is designed too provide full protection.

You don't actually need to to fit a rainwater system, the catchment of your roof is quite small, and you look to have given reasonable overhangs too the roof...bosshogg


> Even a stupid man gets it right sometimes


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## Joe Shmoe (3 May 2011)

cheers Boss, I didn't know that, so I will replace the corners with slightly larger timber.

Do I still need to cover the roof with felt before the Onduline? 

Cheers.


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## bosshogg (3 May 2011)

You don't need full under-felt, I think Onduline do a flashing which goes round the bottom of your roof pitch this would droop into the gutter, if your still fitting one? The lengths of the Onduline fixing screw/nails, might mean you will need to fit counter batons, Onduline don't recommend the fixing screw/nails protrude through the roof covering, if memory serves. First off though cut and fix your fascias to the rafter ends (you'll require a rake up cut to fit snug against the underside of your OSB's) then trim your OSB 
to finish in-line, your barge board ends might need boxing to finish the appearance of the roof, something like this





...bosshogg


> who said you can't put your bin out on a bank holiday Monday


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## billybuntus (3 May 2011)

Looking excellent, whats your finish height to ridge?

I hope to build something pretty much identical to this soon


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## Deejay (3 May 2011)

Afternoon Joe

There is a downloadable fixing guide PDF and a video on the Onduline website 

http://www.onduline.net/.

Go to Product range / Onduline

Cheers

Dave


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## Joe Shmoe (9 May 2011)

Guys, Im in the process of fitting the Onduline so pics to come soon. I now need to turn my attention to the door.

As I am using Featheredge, I cant put this on the door as the hinges wont lay flush. I quite liked the look of this door. Are there any bad points about making a door in this way, and what would you guys recommend as far as doors go?


http://fineartamerica.com/images-medium ... k-ryan.jpg


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## bosshogg (9 May 2011)

Hi Joe,

Can you make your doors open inwards, that way you can fully frame the door, side rails and all, and fit the hinges to this _ internal instead of external...bosshogg


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## Joe Shmoe (9 May 2011)

Hi Boss, that is an option, but as I would like to have the doors open for light as much as possible, that would seriously limit the amount of space inside.

Do I have any other options ?


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## bosshogg (9 May 2011)

In the door you posted the URL to view, either you are looking at the inside of the door (the weather boards are on the back side of the frame as you look at it) also the hinges are a pair and a half of butts fitted open style to each door leaf. The frame is a traditional ledge and brace with full frame stiles and top and bottom rails, you can affix your shiplap boards to this frame in the normal manner, and if you want to fit but hinges, as in the pic, fit them correctly as opposed to open as in the pic. 
An alternative would be to fit strap leaf hinges 


, which are traditionally seen on sheds and outhouse doors, 



The beauty of these is that even if the are fitted at a rake to the vertical alignment in general, a judicious tap with a hammer in the right place will settle them nicely for operation, that is assuming you don't go for cast/period style...bosshogg


> You can't help a man who doesn't tell you what he wants


 (homer)


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## Deejay (9 May 2011)

Evening Joe

If you use external hinges, you might think about these ...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/hinge-bolts/17201

to stop people knocking the hinge pins out and opening the door 'the wrong way'

Cheers

Dave


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## billybuntus (26 Aug 2011)

Any updates?


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## Benchwayze (28 Aug 2011)

When you see Police Officers on the telly, using the enforcer to open a door, it's always on an inward opening door.
Outward opening doors can be jemmied easily, whatever you use to hinge or secure them with. 

If I was building this type of shop, I would seriously consider a well made UPVC house door, (inward opening) with angle iron in the surrounding frame, and maybe a thin metal sheet on the inside of the door too. 

Expensive? Probably, but cheaper than having to buy new tools, with a small Insurance settlement.

HTH
John


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## No skills (29 Aug 2011)

IME inward opening are harder to break into. In the site offices (and other things) we make at work we use steel security doors made by kirncroft, these are ok for the money (all steel, multipoint lock) but rely on euro cylinders for the lock (as do most upvc/security doors now). Once that cylinders been broken out then its game over no matter what the door is made from.

Best advice is learn to weld and make your own door and frame up (sorry thats not much help, but I'll be making my own doors from steel) and just make sure everything is insured.

By the way, kirncroft doors used to be sub £300 last time I looked and there is also a steel door maker selling on ebay 'Latham' security doors or something like that, similar prices.

HTH


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## Benchwayze (29 Aug 2011)

No skills":1ts9jtv6 said:


> IME inward opening are harder to break into.
> 
> HTH




Hi Noskills, 

I thought that was exactly what I said, or at least implied?  

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you agreeing with me or have you misread my post?

Regards
John  . 
Or


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## No skills (29 Aug 2011)

John, I was agreeing with what you had said  
As long as the door stop is secure then inward opening doors are harder to get in, if you can get the stop off easy then its a moot point. Same goes for naff locks


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## Benchwayze (29 Aug 2011)

Cheers No Skills(?) 

(No skills? I doubt it BTW!)

I have seen quite a few burglaries in my time. The miscreants all have the most trouble with inward opening doors. Which I why I also chose inward opening casements when I had the double-glazing installed! 

No naff locks either. Just eight steel bolts around every one.

regards
John


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