# mirror back



## Gary M (1 Sep 2007)

Hi all, me again  
i have been making mirror frames for a while now, butt joined or mitered with biscuits, the odd M&t thats the easy part for me believe it or not ! 
I use 4mm glass rebated into the frame sometimes bedded on a thin bead of silicone and a backing or 3mm mdf or hardboard taped all around, with no problems as yet. 

problem is, i now have a shop (quite fancy) willing to sell these mirrors and take bespoke orders for them, but they are not happy with the backing design. 
I have told them i can beef it up to no ends but it wont be very professional looking. 
So,
i have tried turn buttons, fine but they sit out from the back and could scratch the wall, 
I have enquired about picture framing tabs, but the gun only does up to 75mm thick frames and i don't know whether they would go into solid hardwoods.
any suggestions ??
just a note that might be of interest
the shop expect a mark up of wait for it
250% of everything they sell, so either i will be making them for nothing or they will be very expensive mirrors (but then again they are bespoke) !!


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## SketchUp Guru (1 Sep 2007)

How about glazier's points to hold the mirror in (with bits of heavy paper between points and mirror to avoid scraping the mirroring off) and paint or even a clear finish on the hardboard.

If the frame can handle it, make a stepped rebate so the backer is a bit larger than the mirror. Then use some short flat head screws (brass?) to hold the backer in place. Make sure you drill and countersink the backer and sand around the holes before painting.

Get really fancy and use your table saw to put shallow scores vertically in the backer to make it look like multiple piece of wood.


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## jasonB (1 Sep 2007)

I've used double rebates one for the glass then a wider (10-12mm) one for the backing, small countersunk screws will hold the back in place. This method also has the advantage of making the whole frame more solid and reduced the risk of long frame sections bowing, Ive dome mirrors upto 7ft long this way.

Not sure what sort of framing fixings you looked at (possibly getting underpinners and back pinners mixed up?) but a back pinner either manual or air powered will fire neat little metal plates into the rebate to retain the backing, something like this

Jason


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## SketchUp Guru (1 Sep 2007)

Jason, that link points to what I was thinking of. Thanks for finding it.


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## Gary M (1 Sep 2007)

Thats the one i was advised wouldn't do the job (only made by charnwood,) 
there was another type like this apparently can produce more pressure but can only cope up to 75mm. 
i've never seen an air operated version sounds interesting though. 

the double rebate is probably the way to go, i was really wanting something quick and easy that was adequate for the job as time will be money at the end of the day !!


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## gidon (4 Sep 2007)

Hi Gary
Maybe a little late, but I've used the Pushmaster tool with backing nailsnails (it comes with a few of them) - this is pretty effective for the mirrors I've built. Although I love Jason's idea for larger mirrors! 
Before I had that tool I used nail gun brads or finishing nails and tapped them in with a patented () block of wood!
Cheers
Gidon


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## Gary M (4 Sep 2007)

Thanks Gidon,
never to late when it comes to advise  
I didnt realise that these pushmaster tools could be used for backing.
did you use it on hardwoods, ie oak or walnut ?
Cheers.


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## jasonB (4 Sep 2007)

Few air ones to choose from here

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/index.php?sess ... eliveryid=

Jason


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## Gary M (4 Sep 2007)

Cheers Jason,
very interesting, although i dont see any prices :shock:


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## gidon (4 Sep 2007)

Yes I've used the Pushmaster only with hardwoods. You need to use a dead blow hammer with it - it's just a neat way of holding the nail (or flexi-pin for picture frames).
Charnwood used to do an air tab gun too I think but can't find it now.
Cheers
Gidon


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## Gary M (13 Sep 2007)

Well i have made a couple of samples for the shop, made with biscuited butt joints and a double rebate on the back , one 7mm deep x 10mm wide for the mirror and one 3mm deep x 10mm wider again (if you get what i mean) for the 3mm mdf backing, drilled and screwed into the frame.
looks quite proffessional if i do say so myself, heres a few pics
















nothing i like more than a nice tight joint !!










thought the backs turned out well !!

many thanks for all your helpfull suggestions guys, i really appreciate them,
i will let you know how i get on with the shop tomorrow :shock: 
Cheers.


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## ike (14 Sep 2007)

> just a note that might be of interest
> the shop expect a mark up of wait for it
> 250% of everything they sell,



My sis sells her glasswork through the 'Made In Stroud' shop, which is a sort of co-operative outlet for local arts and craftspeople. They work on around a 100% margin to make the venture financially successful.

All I will say is that in your case, it's either pure, unadulturated greed, or the shop owners are way up their own a**e (or both)!

ike


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## Gary M (14 Sep 2007)

ike":2qpm7fdq said:


> All I will say is that in your case, it's either pure, unadulturated greed, or the shop owners are way up their own a**e (or both)!
> 
> ike


Have to agree with you Ike, 
you could have knocked me over with a feather when i was told about the mark up :shock: 
i took the two samples down this morning and she was impressed, but said she would need to do some figures ------------- :roll:

I dont know weather it will be worth my while making these as cheaply as i can for a shop to almost treble the price just by sticking them in the window, as the frames will sell themselves.
The mirrors pictured are 520mm x 500mm (frame of 100mm x 16mm oak)
i have worked out that i need a minimum of £35.00 for one which i think is reasonable  
but for the shopkeeper to ask the general public for £87.50 or probably £90 i dont think i will have many orders :shock: hopefull i am wrong !!
i like the idea of a co-op for local crafts, must do some research on that
:wink:


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