# Laser eye-surgery instead of glasses. Any good?



## MixedHerbs (23 Aug 2007)

Hello,

Both my pairs of glasses are up for replacement so I am considering having my eyes zapped with a laser. Has anyone out there had experience of this procedure good or bad?

Regards, Peter.


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## motownmartin (23 Aug 2007)

I haven't but I know a man that has, he says it's worth it, but after about 8 years he says they need to be done again.

I have considered it myself but keep spending the money on woodworking tools :lol: 

Martin


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## Steve Maskery (23 Aug 2007)

Peter,
It probably depends on how old you are.

I've had extensive eye surgery (although not laser - yet!) and I never cease to marvel at the magic of being able to see. If I'd lived 100 years ago I'd be at best blind and probably dead by now, I certainly wouldn't be leading the sort of life I do lead.

As we get older, our eye muscles get weaker. They squeeze the lens to focus. The closer the object the more we have to squeeze to bend the light to focus on the retina. As this getsw more and more difficult, we have to hold the paper further away to get it in focus, or use thicker glasses to help us on our way.

Laser modification of the cornea has no effect whatsoever on this process, so, with or without Lasek, your muscles will weaken in middle age and your eyesight will deteriorate. OK it's not bound to happen, but that's the normal pattern. So if you have the surgery now, and they are pretty good at getting it right, it doesn't mean it will be right in a few years time.

I wear CLs and have good visoin. Without them I have modest vision with one eye and just colour and movement with the other. I'm thinking of having that one zapped to try to get it on a par with the other. I don't really need perfect, I would just like to reduce the mbalance between the two.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Cheers
Steve


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## MixedHerbs (23 Aug 2007)

I am nearly 50, long sighted, and spend about 8 hours a day in front of a PC. By the looks of things, even if my eyes are zapped, I will still need reading glasses for my VDU work. The sums are starting to not add-up.

Regards, Peter.


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## Paul Chapman (23 Aug 2007)

There was an interesting piece about this on the Jeremy Vine show on Radio 2 two or three weeks ago. Various people 'phoned in to talk about their experiences.

It seems that sometimes it's very successful but there are risks and, like all surgical procedures, it can result in you being left worse off. The view of Sarah Jarvis, the resident medical expert on the show, was that unless there are compelling reasons to have laser treatment, it was better to stick with spectacles or contact lenses. That was the same conclusion I came to.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MixedHerbs (23 Aug 2007)

Thanks for the feedback.

I think I'll get two sets of specs and an Axminster Planer.

Regards, Peter.


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## davy_owen_88 (23 Aug 2007)

MixedHerbs":19a4zsnd said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> 
> I think I'll get two sets of specs and an Axminster Planer.
> 
> Regards, Peter.



Good choice :lol: 

I had to make a similar decision when I left college - I didn't really suit glasses but the risks and the initial cost pushed me towards contact lenses - which I consider the best of both worlds.


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## matt (23 Aug 2007)

Get some Lindberg frames - they really make it worthwhile wearing glasses!

I would not have eye surgery - I much prefer the tried and tested "accessory" to tampering with my body unnecessarily.


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## RogerS (23 Aug 2007)

Your eyes continue to change as you age. I can get contacts or glasses to compensate for this. 

Sometimes the eyes can go 'back the other way' if you see what I mean or at least need a different sort of correction. 

Can lasers put stuff back?


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## ByronBlack (23 Aug 2007)

laser surgery has a lot a lower success rating than is generally advertised. Optical Express are the biggest suppliers in europe since they bought out the boots division, and as a company that aren't all that IMO (I've worked for them).

Personally, I would say stick with glasses unless you are + or - 10.

Invest the money in a decent quality high-index lens (1.67 or 1.74) and a nice modern small frame, and your vision will be better than wearing either contacts or laser surgery.

Lindburg frames are massively over-priced. Your paying for the 'name'. The materials are no more advanced than some of the 'titanium' frames that you can buy of the shelf as ready-readers. However, the style is nice and they do look smart.

(I qualify all my statements, by saying i've been in the optical manufacturing industry for 10+ years). I've worked extensively with lindburg frames and even went on their brainswashing - erm sorry I mean 'training' courses - nice style but in my opinion, certainly not fantastic quality for what you pay for.

IMO the best made frames are the 'flexon' range from Marchon. The build quality is exceptional. Marchon are the company that make all the designer labels such as CK, Calvin, Nike etc.. although because of the name you pay a lot more for it.

Anyways, Laser is ok, it isn't fool-proof and can require multiple visits to get right. It will NOT correct your near vision as you get older as the muscles in your eye harden and no amount of surgery can fix this, and you'll still require reading glasses, so apart from vanity or extreme vision problems there is no real benefit.


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## JFC (23 Aug 2007)

Blimey and there was me drinking 8 pints to pull an ugly bird ! Give it 5 years and i can give my liver a rest :lol:


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## mailee (23 Aug 2007)

I was thinking of it a couple of years ago until I watched a documentary about it and it put me right off. They slice the lens open and then flap it back afterwards! :shock: I didn't like the idea of a sharp object disecting my eye, a Laser burning it yes but a knife...no way. :shock: Mind you as has been mentioned it would be no use for me at my age now anyway.


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## Steve Maskery (23 Aug 2007)

mailee":3tfs11gy said:


> I didn't like the idea of a sharp object disecting my eye, a Laser burning it yes but a knife...no way. (




Yes, it's scary, but if the alternative is losing your sight, you'd treat it as a godsend.

Cheers
Steve
L 6/6 (6/12)
R 6/*5*  ( 6/300)


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## mailee (24 Aug 2007)

Oh yes I agree Steve, but just for the sake of not wearing glasses I would definitely think twice. I do wear glasses one pair for normal vision and another for reading/close up work. Sign of my age.


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## MixedHerbs (24 Aug 2007)

My favorite specs so far are very lightweight titanium that do not have hinges . I think the make is Silhouette The trouble is, I had a nap one day on the sofa and put my specs on the coffee table. I vaguely remember hearing a crunching noise and thought nothing of it - we had recently taken delivery of an English springer spaniel puppy and thought he was chewing a dog toy...

It's quite a challenge to drive wearing wonky specs. After a while, my eyes compensated for the tooth marks on the lenses.

Regards, Peter.


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## nickson71 (24 Aug 2007)

My sister has had both eyes done using the laser treatment and she thinks it was the best thing she's had done ..................


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## Terry Smart (24 Aug 2007)

Hi All

Mandy had this done about 18 months ago; she'd been wearing contact lenses for years but found them inconvenient when she wanted to go swimming and also for other activities such as horse riding etc, so she decided to take the plunge and have them done.

To be honest although there was a marked improvement after the first procedure it wasn't as good as we all thought it should be, the clinic agreed and had another go (that sounds dreadful!) and this time they got it spot on and Mandy is delighted with the results.

One interesting thing they did do was give her what they called 'mono-vision'. Mandy's problem was in seeing things at a distance whereas her eyesight for nearby objects was superb; as they only corrected one eye the second time round she has the best of both worlds. When looking at things at a distance one eye takes over and for closeup work the other eye dominates; the brain works it all out so there's no conscious work involved, she was dubious about it but is really pleased with it.

Nothing in life is without risk, but it has certainly worked out for Mandy.

Having said all that, as was stated very early on, it is still likely that she will need glasses for reading when she gets older which is, I believe, practically inevitable for most people, me included in the last year or so!


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## Vormulac (24 Aug 2007)

My sister had worn glasses for about 15 years up until she had laser surgery a couple of years ago, the result after a considerable amount of discomfort was perfect vision in both eyes. She's 36 and a professional photographer. I'm short sighted in one eye, but I'm squeamish about letting anyone near my eyeball with a blade, so I'm happy to let my good eye correct for the other as it has done for the last 15 years or so (I do have glasses, but they give me the most shocking headaches, so I don't wear them).


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## ByronBlack (24 Aug 2007)

Vormulac - if you're getting headaches with the glasses then the prescription is wrong. I would get down to your opticians and have a new sight test done. Even if your prescription is small, chances are you'll have an astigmatism and a correct prescription should give you good vision without headaches.


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## promhandicam (24 Aug 2007)

Hi. just asked the opinion of my colleague who is a British born ophthalmologist who himself has had laser surgery and his advice is that for someone like yourself with presbyopia (long vision) laser surgery isn't recommended. What he would recommend is to have cataract surgery - what would be known as a clear lens extraction. This has a number of advantages - you wouldn't need cataract surgery in the future - you'd get good vision and wouldn't need to wear glasses at all (with laser surgery you'd still need glasses for reading). You would need to ensure that your surgeon has access to an IOL Master which is a non-contact optical device that measures the distance from the corneal vertex to the retinal pigment epithelium by partial coherence interferometry. It is able to measure consistently to within ±0.02 mm or better. 8)

If measurement using an IOL Master this isn't possible then it isn't worth considering. Once measured up you would have Phaco surgery where a small 3mm incision is made and an IOL (intra ocular lens) is implanted. This is done as day surgery. Neil, my colleague thinks that in 5 - 10 years this will be the preferred method for correcting myopia in western countries - especially for younger people at around 20 - 25.

I hope this helps - if not you then someone else.

Steve

Note - I don't work for Carl Zeiss Meditec - makers of the IOL Master but I do work for an NGO involved in prevention of blindness and disability http://www.cbm.org


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## ByronBlack (24 Aug 2007)

Steve, the cataract surgery will NOT cure the need for wearing reading glasses when older, this is a muscle issue and not a lens issue. I apologise if i've read your post wrong, but I just wanted to make that clear in case anyone was confused.


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## Losos (24 Aug 2007)

MixedHerbs":yt2dzsp4 said:


> I am nearly 50, long sighted, and spend about 8 hours a day in front of a PC. By the looks of things, even if my eyes are zapped, I will still need reading glasses for my VDU work. The sums are starting to not add-up.
> 
> Regards, Peter.



Peter, when I was your age I briefly considered laser treatment but decided against it. My reasoning was simple, mistakes happen, it may be 90% safe (Some may claim more) but for me my eyes are so precious that I wasn't prepared to take the risk.

That was about ten years ago, the technology may have improved, but even now _i still wouldn't have it done_. It's not about the cost (Which is probably quite reasonable) it's about the one in a hundred _chances of something going wrong_, some people are more blase about risks but not me


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## Losos (24 Aug 2007)

Terry Smart":24z5u7t1 said:


> Nothing in life is without risk, but it has certainly worked out for Mandy.



Very pleased to read that, as you say some activities are a pain if you can't wear your glasses (I used to swim a lot)

But as in my post above, even when I was younger _I still opted to put up with blurred vision in the pool rather take the risk. _ It all depends on _your approach to life I guess_. A billion pounds compensation if something went wrong _will not give you your sight back_. 

Swimming, horse riding, and bungee jumping are not on my agenda now :roll: so the 'laser vision' thing is pretty much irrelevant.


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## BrianD (24 Aug 2007)

ByronBlack,

I am planning to replace my Nike Flexon glasses - they have been really fantastic - I have had them for a while and plan a change with one of these:

720/28 Marchon Airlock No hinge OR

760/10 Marchon Airlock Hinge

My personal preference is the 720 version. What is your opinion on these? Do they break easily/brittle or are they sufficiently robust?

Also the lenses, I am having scratchresist coating again but with Transitions this time (for outdoor etc. use). Can this be done?

The use is active as well as daily use.

Appreciated.

Any ideas?


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## ByronBlack (24 Aug 2007)

Brian. I would go for the 760 with hinge - much easier to fit, and also replace if they break. The non hinged frames also require a larger case for storing and can prove difficult to adjust. The the 760 range is the second generation of Airlock and is a very strong but light system. 

As you may already know the Airlock is a rimless system that uses plastic plugs. If you want a transition lens and are going to be active, I would recommend the following:

1.6 Transitions IV + HMC (Hard Multi Coat) this will give a harder surface and an anti-reflection coating which is good for driving and general activities.

OR

Polycarbonate Transitions IV + HMC - Polycarbonate is more suitable to a rimless frame such as Airlock, the plastic plugs are less likely to work lose over a period of time as the Polycarb is a harder material, and more shatter proof than regular 1.5 plastic or the slightly harder 1.6 material (which incidently is a higher index lens which will be thinner and lighter than standard lenses).

Hope that helps, any more questions feel free to ask.


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## BrianD (24 Aug 2007)

Nice to get some impartial expert advice these days! - a real benefit of this forum! And on a variety of topics too!

Cheers.


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## promhandicam (24 Aug 2007)

ByronBlack":3b5mhjfn said:


> Steve, the cataract surgery will NOT cure the need for wearing reading glasses when older, this is a muscle issue and not a lens issue. I apologise if i've read your post wrong, but I just wanted to make that clear in case anyone was confused.



Hi Byron. On the surgical side there have been big advances recently in IOL manufacture. Although traditional PMMA IOL's wouldn't correct presbyopia the newer ones like Alcon's ReSTOR are very much better. I have no idea what is available in the UK but certainly in the USA this is the way that things are going. 

The following gives some information about the ReSTOR IOL's:


Alcon":3b5mhjfn said:


> The AcrySof(R) ReSTOR(R) IOL features a unique, proprietary apodized diffractive optic design that provides the ability to focus images from various distances correctly on the retina without mechanical movement of the lens. This optic design results in an increased range of quality vision that delivers a high level of spectacle freedom. Apodization improves image quality by optimizing light energy delivered to the retina by distributing the appropriate amounts of light to near and distant focal points, regardless of lighting situation. *This new IOL is particularly well-suited for patients who wish to reduce their dependency on reading glasses and bifocals once their cataractous lens is removed.*



All the best,

Steve


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## ByronBlack (24 Aug 2007)

Cheers for the extra info Steve, i'll have to have a chat with the optoms here at work about that as i've not come across that before.


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## promhandicam (24 Aug 2007)

Hi again! My understanding is that around 70 - 80% of people can manage without any spectacles after implanting one of the new generation of IOL's, although I imagine that some years after surgery it may be necessary for some people to start wearing reading glasses again.

Cheers,

Steve


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## santiniuk (24 Aug 2007)

Just thought I'd chip in with my experience.

A few years ago quite a lot of my work colleagues had the laser treatment. Every one was coming back to work saying it was a miracle !

I guess I got caught up with this as I was as blind as a bat... I was wearing contacts but I'm convinced my eyes had had enough of them as I'd been using them for approx 15 years. They always seemed to iritate me in the later years, walking into a smokey pub made it worse 

Well I couldn't really make out the face of a person who sat across the desk from me without glasses. It was awful.

I went for it and got my eyes zapped. The wife drove me up to get the op. (A painless 2 minute procedure). On the way back my eyes felt 'gritty' but I could read the car registrations of cars in front of us. !!!

The gritty eyes lasted all night and wasnt good. They gave me some protective goggles to sleep on for a few nights.

The next day when I looked out of my bedroom window it was almost emotional. The leaves on the trees were crystal clear and my vision was perfect. I swear it couldnt be better.

At last no more hassle when swimming, playing squash or football.

I have had mine done about 3 years now. And for me it was the best £2000 ever spent.

I almost feel like it was worth it for the 3 years so far. 

Just my experience.....

Cheers


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## Steve Maskery (24 Aug 2007)

Great story!

It reminds me of my first expoerience with contact lenses. I ran to the door and looked down the street. I could see everybody! Fantastic. I'd never seem so well in my life, I was 22.

Although I'm grateful I live i a developed country in the era I do, I'm slightly disappointed with my right eye. I've had a new cornea and I still see only 6/300 with it. It means I can't see what I'm typing now. But The same op 9 years later with my R eye gives me 6/12. Both perform perfectly with CLs. In fact I read 6/5 with my R eye with a CL. That means I can see at 6m what Mr Average can see at 5m, for the non-optically engaged.

I'm just glad I was born in an era when this sort of solution is available.

Cheers
Steve


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## matt (24 Aug 2007)

ByronBlack":lvj8q1h9 said:


> Lindburg frames are massively over-priced. Your paying for the 'name'. The materials are no more advanced than some of the 'titanium' frames that you can buy of the shelf as ready-readers. However, the style is nice and they do look smart.
> 
> (I qualify all my statements, by saying i've been in the optical manufacturing industry for 10+ years). I've worked extensively with lindburg frames and even went on their brainswashing - erm sorry I mean 'training' courses - nice style but in my opinion, certainly not fantastic quality for what you pay for.



Re Lindberg - they're not that expensive... Certainly the best I've ever had in all my glasses wearing years (from a comfort and durability point of view).

Are you familiar with Raicu range of frames?

Guess you've also come across Keeler equipment too in your trade?


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## ByronBlack (24 Aug 2007)

Hi Matt,

When I say they are expensive, I mean in terms of the markup, but over the years they seem to have built a reputation as these 'uber' quality - usually sold by boutique independent opticians, but don't get me wrong, I do like them, but compared to the quality of others I think they are a little on the pricey side, but i'm pleased you like your's. I had a pair a few years back, could never really get on with them - too light, I like to feel that i'm wearing something; not sure if that makes sense 

Raicu is a new on me I have to say. The last few years i've mostly worked only with frames from Marchon, Luxotica and Selcott so if its a particularly new range then it may have past me by - do you have any links to their designs?

Keeler - again not really anything I've dealt with. I'm mostly in the Lab side of things and deal with companies such as: Nidek, Takubomatic, Carl Zeiss, Briot etc.. As for Keeler, I think they are mostly optomotrist equipment i'm not really sure, as I say I don't have a great deal of knowledge of the side of things in regards to their suppliers/machinery.

Do you work for Keeler?


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## matt (25 Aug 2007)

I know what you mean about being light. They need some tweaking in the initial stages to get the right feel.

Raicu - I may have got the name/spelling wrong. Someone mentioned the name to me when they noticed my Lindberg's but I've not been able to find anything about them.

Keeler - I have a family connection.


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## cumbrian (25 Aug 2007)

FWIW - about 5 or 6 years ago I got chatting at a social gathering to a guy who was a consultant eye surgeon at one of the major eye hospitals. I was interested in laser correction, being shortsighted and having worn specs or contacts for many years, so I asked his opinion. He thought about it, then replied that he knew a number of eye surgeons who wore specs, but none who had had laser correction....... That told me all I needed to know!

There will of course be those for whom it is a worthwhile, or even their only choice. For the rest of us...... hmmm. Oh, and if I had had it done I imagine I'd now be faffing about with trying to find my reading glasses instead of simply wearing varifocals all day!


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## Charley (25 Aug 2007)

My mum & my sister both had laser treatment and were really pleased with the results. Seeing how well it went for them I started saving so I could have it done when I turned 20... Unfortunately it didn't go so well for me. The machine broke down half-way through the first eye. 

They had to get the engineers from Japan to fly over and fix the laser. The guy said he's been working there 10 years and it's the first time he's seen it happen. The only similar case they had was when the building had a power cut once.

At the moment I've only got half an eye done and wear a contact lens in the other eye. They say they can put it right but TBH they were pretty useless at the follow-up appointments so haven't bothered yet. At the moment we're going to see if they'll pay for me to go somewhere else in which case I'll probably go for it.


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## Paul Chapman (25 Aug 2007)

That's really bad luck, Charley  Hope things work out better if you decide to go for it again.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Losos (26 Aug 2007)

Charley":9can8zl6 said:


> My mum & my sister both had laser treatment and were really pleased with the results. Seeing how well it went for them I started saving so I could have it done when I turned 20... Unfortunately it didn't go so well for me. The machine broke down half-way through the first eye.
> 
> They had to get the engineers from Japan to fly over and fix the laser. The guy said he's been working there 10 years and it's the first time he's seen it happen. The only similar case they had was when the building had a power cut once.
> 
> At the moment I've only got half an eye done and wear a contact lens in the other eye. They say they can put it right but TBH they were pretty useless at the follow-up appointments so haven't bothered yet. At the moment we're going to see if they'll pay for me to go somewhere else in which case I'll probably go for it.



This is exactly the sort of hassle I was refering too in my previous post. I really do hope you get all sorted and that you benefit (In the end) from not needing contacts or spectacles - as someone said there's risk in everything we do in life. I just feel that for me, this is one risk I don't want to take.


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