# Ashley Iles chisels - steel chipping



## gidon (21 Feb 2006)

I got a set of these Christmas time and have to say I haven't been too pleased with them. Whatever angle I sharpened them too I found the edge chipped on hardwoods at least - even paring. Never had that with my old Footprint chisels or other chisels I've owned.
Anyhow meant to chase this up sooner but spoke to Barry Iles at the AP show and was told he had done some experimenting recently with the grinding process and this process had resulted in the steel becoming brittle. I now have to send them all (6) back for regrinding. I'll let you know how it goes but I'm not too chuffed - I've spent quite some time flattening and sharpening all these chisels - and now will be without them for some time I guess plus will have to re-sharpen them all too . 
Cheers
Gidon


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## dedee (21 Feb 2006)

Gidon,
I used the AI chisles to chop out some DTs in oak last week. I did not notice any chipping. I honed them before I started on each end to ensure there were still sharp rather than because I noticed they were not.

Please let us know how you get on when they are returned.

Andy


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## gidon (21 Feb 2006)

Andy 
I'm sure yours are fine - you'd really notice if you had this problem. I'm sure it only applies to a small batch - at least I'd hope so!
Cheers
Gidon


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## Newbie_Neil (21 Feb 2006)

Hi Gidon

Sorry to hear about the chipping.

I must admit that after reading the various threads I had come to the conclusion that they were the ones to have.

Please keep us up to date.

All the best,
Neil


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## gidon (21 Feb 2006)

Thanks Neil - will do.
Cheers
Gidon


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## gidon (7 Mar 2006)

OK - an update:

The chisels went back to Barry Iles with a letter expressing my disappointment. I got a brand new set back a week later. Plus Mr BI said I could choose _anything*_ from the AI cataolgue for compensation. You don't get much better customer service than this in my opinion. He said the problem was due to canneling before hardening - I have no idea what this means.

Anyhow my only concern is that he's lowered the hardness by 2 degrees (not sure from what, to) to reduce the chance of edge chipping. I didn't ask him to do this and am a little concerned that one of the reasons I purchased these chisels was due to the steel and its edge holding capability. I haven't managed to speak with him yet - he's in Germany but I will. But what are people's thoughts on this? 

Cheers

Gidon

_* The £350 set of carving tools look rather nice _


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## Colin C (7 Mar 2006)

To hard is more than likely the reason they wre chipping, so it sound good to me ( if I am wrong we will soon find out ) 8-[


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## ike (7 Mar 2006)

Gidon wrote:



> Plus Mr BI said I could choose anything* from the AI cataolgue for compensation. You don't get much better customer service than this in my opinion.



Hmm... in theory. He made me the same offer over another issue with my chisels (over-hard ferrules kept splitting). I'm assuming that my (modest) request has merely slipped his mind, him being a very busy chap by the sounds of it. It has been a couple months nearly though :? .

Please let us know if and when you receive your item.

cheers,

Ike


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## mr (7 Mar 2006)

ike":31ko5hq7 said:


> It has been a couple months nearly though :? .
> 
> Ike


Likewise still waiting many months later.


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## gidon (7 Mar 2006)

That doesn't sound too promising! It's the chisels I want to get sorted though first ..
Cheers
Gidon


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## Mike.C (8 Mar 2006)

If as ike states below that there is no beef, then i withdraw my comments.

Cheers

Mike


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## Anonymous (8 Mar 2006)

ike":dmhdycx2 said:


> . It has been a couple months nearly though :? .
> 
> 
> Ike



Ike, did you contact them again to remind him? Seems to me that a quick call ro letter would get compensation winging to you

Things like this easily slip the mind of busy managers


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## ike (8 Mar 2006)

Tony,

Compensation wasn't really an issue. The problem got sorted and Barry's offer was pleasantly unexpected. I did (do) think they offer good, old-fashioned service like it used to be years ago, and I don't want anyone to think I have a beef about it - if it turns up then it's a bonus.
 
cheers,

Ike


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## gidon (29 Mar 2006)

Another update FYI - the second set of chisels have gone back for a refund. They didn't chip like the first but their edge retention was diabolical. I'm fed up wasting time with them to be honest. Even some really really cheap chisels in my DIY toolkit keep their edge far better. I did a test sharpening 3 half inch chisels down to 0.5 micron - the backs were all flat and polished to the same grit. I sliced some end grain pine - an inch or so across - after 1 or 2 passes the AI felt and looked (through a 10x loupe) blunter and left scratch marks that weren't there on the first pass and weren't there after many passes with the other chisels. 
Not sure what I'm going to replace them with - maybe I'll stick with my Footprint ones! Except they don't go below 1/4" ...
I'm sure I've been unlucky (I know there are happy users here) but I don't want to risk another set. 
Never did claim my free tool either .
Cheers
Gidon


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## ike (29 Mar 2006)

I'm very sorry to hear you didn't get any joy with them. AI have a very good name. All their tools seemingly (reading their catalogue) hand forged and finished to me implied superior quality, but obviously not consistent enough quality. 

I was I admit, slightly irritated with the problem I had with the ferrules. Which reminds me I should go and check them to see if they are still OK (haven't stepped foot int workshop for months - due to another particularly special project now nearing completion after nearly 4 years :wink: ).

I never got my freebie either, even after a gentle reminder to them  ., so I shan't be buying AI again, unless there is no alternative.

Ike


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## Alf (29 Mar 2006)

Gidon, nothing to say but _merde_.  What a bummer. Did you try a higher angle? Even a L-N will give you that result if you don't have the bevel at the angle that suits it. It'd be a terrible shame if AI were letting things go to pot... :? I do hope it's a glitch in the system somewhere.

Cheers, Alf


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## mr (29 Mar 2006)

Hmmmm 
Still waiting myself. 
THough admittedly its a long and boring story but its been several months now. Phone call tomorrow I think.


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## Chris Knight (29 Mar 2006)

Gidon,
That is very bad luck. Seems to me you gave them every chance and that it is now time to move on.

You said you got them at Christmas but I'm not sure if they were a present or what?

If you want a matched set, then of course LN are obvious candidates but expensive I would also encourage you to look at older chisels, either in a set or a mixed bag. Personally I wouldn't bother with a set of say Two Cherries over your Footprints, the difference is probably not enough to warrant it.


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## Colin C (29 Mar 2006)

There are some old Marples going on Ebay at the moment and I have some old ones myself , they are good  .
I will post a link if you want :?:


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## Scott (29 Mar 2006)

Nae luck Gidon! That's a real bummer right enough!

Have you considered Bristol Design? They're not cheap either but in my [so far, limited] experience seem to be good steel. I bought some recently and although I haven't flattened and sharpened them all yet I have done a few and used a couple to chop out some dovetails in oak. They held their edge better than the Marples I was comparing them to.

The BD chappie says the steel is "very similar to the old cast steel". That's in the cabinetmaker's chisels (they also do a range of hooped carpenter's chisels that he says are more like the steel used in other modern chisels - ie lesser quality). The sizes are metric starting at 2mm, 5mm then 5mm increments up to 40mm.

The backs seem to range from almost flat to fairly pronounced hollow and you can get a very sharp edge on them. I have no LNs to compare them with though. They all seem to have a very shallow and strangely convex bevel on them too :? 

Handles are round boxwood, leather washer, brass (or possibly "brassed") ferrule.

And if it's old-fashioned service you want they don't come much more archaic than this lot! They don't do credit cards. You have to write them a letter to order and enclose a cheque!! Sheesh! My British cheque book had gone yellow with age ... when I eventually found it!







Ignore the fact that they're extremely shiny. Nobody has done a "thanks for listening" polishing job on them. They arrived dipped in varnish. Had to get the Nitromors out to get it off.

Anyway, possibly some food for thought!

Cheers


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## Anonymous (29 Mar 2006)

Such a shame Gidon

For anyone thinking of these, mine keep an edge for ever - far longer than my 2 cherries and near to my japanese.

Luck of the draw by the look of it :roll:


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## engineer one (30 Mar 2006)

not sure i understand the cannelling reference, but from my past steel brewing, you cast or forge the metal, then work it, and stress releive, or anneal and then shape, and then harden for the edges. 

changing the hardening by 2-3 degrees should not make a difference to the ability to take and hold an edge. i would wonder whether there is a major problem with the angles that are being used.

not sure where to suggest, but if you see any nooigedagt, buy them 
in my experience their swedish steel was real good, and takes a good long lasting edge.

paul :wink:


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## gidon (30 Mar 2006)

Ike - hope you are now sorted - remember reading about your problem. I'm kind of put off AI now to be honest - which is a real shame.
Alf - well I tried most angles from 25 - 33 degs. Interesting on the LN's - that surprises me. I reckon it is a glitch somewhere - it does sound likes he's been experimenting recently ...
Mr - let us know how you get on.
Chris - yes was a birthday present actually. I can't really afford the LN's - even though they look lovely! I read an old FWW review of chisels and the only chisels at that time that came out a lot better than the rest were the Japanese chisels. But I guess that all depends on the test ... I would love to get hold of some of those Stanley 750's I think the LN's are based on but haven't looked into that.
Colin - yes please - had a quick look and only saw new ones.
Scott - never heard of them thanks. I like the look of them and it looks like the sides have a sharp bevel. Will look into them ...
Tony - I'm sure I was unlucky . Don't let your ones out of your sight .
Paul - thanks not heard of them. Not sure what you mean by major problem with angle.
Thanks all,
Gidon


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## Colin C (30 Mar 2006)

Here for a start  
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/4-no-F-Woodcocks- ... dZViewItem
Look in this part for old chisels


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## Colin C (30 Mar 2006)

And here for one more 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NICE-SET-OF-BOXWO ... dZViewItem


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## gidon (4 Apr 2006)

Thanks Colin - sorry missed your posts . Going to see a chap about some chisels today ...
Cheers
Gidon


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## Colin C (4 Apr 2006)

Hi gidon
If you dont get any [-o< that you do  ,
Let me know as I know someone that might be able to or have some ( his a tool dealer ( I have not seen him in a while and forgot :roll: ).
I do hope you get some, good luck :wink:


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## ike (4 Apr 2006)

Gidon wrote:


> Ike - hope you are now sorted - remember reading about your problem.



Yes thanks for asking. None of the ferrules have split again since AI replaced them with fully annealed ones. I'm well pleased with the chisels now. I'm still waiting for Mr Barry Isles to honour his invitation and send me the cotton apron I modestly requested. Shan't hold my breath though. 'fraid I don't have much time for folks that don't stick to their word

cheers,

Ike


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## gidon (10 Apr 2006)

The chap I saw about the chisels forgot I was coming and had nothing decent :roll:. Thanks for the offer Colin - I have a few other options at the minute but will let you know. Ike I would give him a ring - I'm sure he'll sort you out.
I got a full refund on the chisels - but never claimed my freebie in the end .
Cheers
Gidon


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## mr (21 Apr 2006)

Came home today to find a jiffy bag on the step, containing 4 chisels. Two of which are replacements for two that were sent back some time ago due to the steel chipping issue. Also in the bag as I say were two other chisels which Ive never seen the like of before. It may be that these are the original two I sent back ground back to "good" metal and rehandled or they may be of a type Ive just never come accross - dwarf chisels. Either way they look quite handy - has anyone ever come accross anything like these before, or am I right in thinking that they might be the original two rebirthed? 








Edit 
Just occurred to me to have a look at the classic hand tools site for AI chisels and it appears that these are "butt chisels". Enlighten me someone


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## Colin C (21 Apr 2006)

I have sen some like it but from Stanley ( USA ) and Crown I think , I think Stanley stopped making them but I could be wrong.
They do look nice ( I must not but any more chisels on sunday 8-[ , Repet 10 times #-o , its still not working )


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## Alf (21 Apr 2006)

Butt chisels. Styled "American pattern bevel edged chisels" for the benefit of North America. :roll: 

Cheers, Alf


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## mr (21 Apr 2006)

Yup Alf (reliable as ever) thems the ones. 
Mike


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