# 3x4 sheds



## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

hi all, new to the forum so first off hello to all nice place you have here!!!

right i'm currently planning on a 3x4m shed which i want to build myself, been doing odds and sods with wood since i was little but never took it any further than just helping dad. but i do love making things so thought i would build the shed and start learning.

just a few questions regarding the shed if thats ok with you guys

as said it's a 3x4m shed with a double door at the front (front will be a 3m length) and a long window down the left side.

what would you say it would cost approx to build a shed this size? it will be 3x2 sawn timber, 12mm sheet ply for base floor and roof, would this be ok?

i have the plans nearly finished so have a good idea what i am doing now.

any info or guidance would be most welcome.

Thanks guys 

Danny


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

unless your 3x4 is fixed for size of site position, I would alter it slightly to fit round sheet sizes. Save a bit of money or gain a bit of space for no extra cost

. I.E 3.6 x 4.8 or 2.4x3.6 etc etc


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

I'd suggest 18mm ply for the floor and 11mm osb for the roof to compensate for the extra cost of the floor.
Put plenty of tannalised timber support under the floor and allow good under floor ventilation.
Consider using regularised sawn timber or CLS. Much nicer to work with.
For maximum economy, adjust you dimensions to use standard sheet sizes and timber lengths with no waste.
Make it as high as possible inside to allow for swinging project materials around.

Good Luck and Welcome to the forum BTW

Bob


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

thanks guys couple questions on your replies

i choose 3x4 as thats the biggest i could fit really don't wanna go smaller so willing to waste a little ply on the floor can use the leftovers for something else, bench shelf for example.

right question don't know my materials at all so tannalised timber support??

the floor is currently planned at 3m lengths running the 4m length with 500mm gaps, then 16 500mm (approx) bits between bet that made no sence lol

regularised sawn timber or CLS wht's the diffrence between these and normal 3x2 sawn pieces?

as for height was going to have the walls 7ft 6 with a flat roof


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

Tannelised - treated with a preservative to stop/slow down rot

CLS - nice and smooth with rounded edges. no splinters, quite an even dimention. nothing wrong with sawn - but sometimes CLS can be just as cheap - sometimes cheaper !


floor - 500mm gaps .... consider 400mm gaps to suit the sheet material

ie 1.2m wide ply is 3x400mm ! then the joins are in the right place for the next sheet .... remember 400 is on center line so wherer your sheets join the each have half a piece of wood to rest on


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

Tusses":2k36zi1n said:


> Tannelised - treated with a preservative to stop/slow down rot
> 
> CLS - nice and smooth with rounded edges. no splinters, quite an even dimention. nothing wrong with sawn - but sometimes CLS can be just as cheap - sometimes cheaper !
> 
> ...



it's the simple things you don't think off, that saved a silly mistake thanks tusses

i'll email my supplier and see what the prices are for CLS & Tannelised, thanks for filling me in on that. Do you get Tannelised CLS or is it one or the other.

Thanks again


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

My supplier uses the term CLS for untreated regularised timber. Strictly for dry interior use

I order tannelised (or pressure treated) regularised timber for exterior use (and to be honest I use it for most structural work too just incase)

I appreciate you might be trying to minimise cost but how long do you need it to last?

If you must have a flat roof them make it have at least 1 in 40 fall ( standard is 1 in 80 but if it ever sags, 1 in 40 will stop 'ponding' and premature felt failure.
I'd go for a pitched roof ( think of all that useful storage space in the roof!!) possibly with felt shingles.
I used fibre cement slates on mine but it is built like a brick dung house and 30 sq metres in area. Plus the fact I don't intend to move house. I decided that I will be being taken out of the workshop in a box, probably one I made myself!

Bob


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

from memory pressure treated isn't a great deal more than sawn so will look into that, i can treat it myself. the base will need treating right? with what?


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

you can 'treat' it, but you cant 'pressure' treat it !

I would buy tantalized/pressure treated for the floor as its the hardest bit to fix if you should get problems on 10 years or so.

I would also go and choose/pick the wood out myself as I've had some right banana's come when I've had it delivered !

I agree about cls - no good for the floor.

as for the definition - I have always found CLS to the planed and rounded and only in set sizes (and usually kiln dried). PAR is planed all round with square edges and is any sawn size , put through the planing process. but I guess regional differences will come in to play ?

as for the roof - I will never go back to anything else since I used wriggly tin for my last two workshop roofs - 1ft fall over 20 ft. I roofed my whole workshop - 20x30ft including fitting joists to having the tin (galvanized steel!) in place and screwed down in a couple of hours ! never have to worry about having a leak or re-felting etc


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

I presume you mean the underside of the ply?

Firstly used exterior grade ply and soak it with your favourite preservative.
I'd possibly use synthaprufe bitumen emulsion which when dry turns into a layer of bitumen (tar) that should keep the water out for ever and deter any bugs from drilling through too.

Cut the ply first otherwise the bitumen will get all over your tools. Apply with a cheap brush keep under water until the job is done, then chuck it because you will never get it clean again. White spirit will get it off your hands.

For the exterior you can still buy real mans creosote if you search around on the web instead of this wimps stuff sold retail. Obviously to have to apply it carefully and dispose of any waste sensibly.

HTH

Bob


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

yes - sorry - you can treat the ply yourself.

I still have a couple of gallons of REAL creasote and swear buy it. I am VERY interested to find you can still buy it  

Thanks Bob


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

Trusses,

I got mine here http://www.birdbrand.co.uk/acatalog/Tra ... osote.html

They provide all the warnings etc but did not impose checks.
I ordered online, paid with an obviously personal credit card and got it sent to my work address just in case. 50 litres turned up within a day or so very well packed.

40 litres used to saturate the exterior cladding of my workshop and two years on it is still as black as your hat.

Bob


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

cool - thanks for the link !
its gone up a bit tho :shock:


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

Tusses":aitli185 said:


> cool - thanks for the link !
> its gone up a bit tho :shock:



Yup it is not like the old days when you could take a jerry can round to the local gas works and they would fill it for you for the price of a drink!
That stuff would take the hairs off your chest!

Mix it with old engine oil to make it go further (and be even more toxic!)

I assume as a wiggly tin and creosote man that you still change your own engine oil?

Bob


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

9fingers":2hl4ewnh said:


> I assume as a wiggly tin and creosote man that you still change your own engine oil?
> 
> Bob



:lol: 
indeed I do - and with an over abundance of cars, I have plenty !


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

i appreciate your help guys, drawing up new plans resized the shed to 3.6mx2.8 this will allow better area coverage for the sheet ply should get away with 4 sheets which i am happy with, will make the base 18mm also.
putting the 400mm gaps for the long pieces and 600mm for the small bits. think thats right lol


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

I do hope you dont curse us later when you want more space tho :lol: 

it is worth drawing it out on graph paper along with some scaled cut out tools/machines, cupboards, shelves, workbench and even a scaled sheet of wood - to try and imagine being in there working ! 

Good luck

Rich


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

if you think it might be tight - consider machine placement in conjunction with window/door placement. A well placed door/window will allow you to work with longer peices occasionaly by having them half in/half out of your work area.


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

thanks guys but have made it smaller still 2.4x3.6 just uses 3 sheets then will be marking the area out in the garden tomorrow so will have a real feel for space, if i feel it is to small i'll make it a tad bigger but so far im happy.

as for window placement already thought of that and the bench will run along the wall with the door at the end so can run long pieces out the door.


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

doing my plans on graph paper and am about to start doing the front wall, it has the door in so what size should the door be?

was thinking along the lines of 2.3m high walls with a 2.1m high door? how wide should i go, do i really need double doors or would a lrger single do, making the doors myself


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## 9fingers (25 May 2008)

How about a trap door in the wall opposite the door to run long pieces through the saw or thicknesser in the future?

Bob


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

the roof ... are you having it sloping ? . remember 2.4 at and angle(slope) wont span a 2.4 width !

as for the doors - I went for two standard,half glazed external doors in the casualty bay at my local diy store (Wickes) worked out cheaper than making my own !


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

haven't decided on the roof yet, was going to do it slopping as it seemed easier but does it mean i cant have a slopping roof if the walls are 2.3m? i can i believe only go upto 3m with sloping


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

yep 3 sloped 4 ridged. 

wriggly tin can be ordered any length you want


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

corrugated you mean? was thinking of using that as a temp while i get the main part of the shed sorted, then learn more about roofing, then make a proper roof, have to admit love the sound of rain on a corrugated roof lol

is corrugated pricey? and how much of a pitch will i need?


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## Tusses (25 May 2008)

this is the 'kind' of stuff I used

http://www.cladco.co.uk/roof-cladding-sheets.htm

its pretty self supporting needing supporting every meter. so you dont need much slope - it soesnt sag , so wont pool.

price wise - dunno ? steel has gone up a bit lately !
but you dont need p[ly/osb under it and you dont need anything (felt etc) on top of it.

I think I paid around £1 per linear foot - 1m wide, so approx £40 for your roof  cheap as chips when you think about the end result.

you can get opaque sheets if you want some sky light in

If you are worried about apperance - you can get it plastic coated in a range of colours, and you can also get fake roof tile 'sheets' - prices are a bit higher tho !!

a lot of places sell on ebay now, so its worth a look.


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## RSDanny (25 May 2008)

i work in the steel industry so will have a chat to my boss see if he can get any, he'll get it vat free for me too hehe


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## RSDanny (26 May 2008)

well just finished squaring up the 3.6x2.4 area and it's to small so gone back to 3x4m costs more but would rather put off the build for a month and save for the extra and have a better area to play i mean work in  

with regards to the walls is 3x2 the minimum i should use?


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## 9fingers (26 May 2008)

I would not go any smaller section than 3 x 2 .
Remember to double up around the openings and use 2 noggins between each pair of verticals to stiffen it up.

Bob


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## RSDanny (26 May 2008)

double up around the door? do i need to do that for the window also?

was going to use 3x3 post in each corner to allow the 3x2 to fix properly

what is normal size for a window? was think of around 2m in length and 500mm high?


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## 9fingers (26 May 2008)

That is quite big for a window. typically 10% of the floor area will give you plenty of light.
Don't forget about security. Window bars are a good idea given that your tools will be on view. Possibly internal shutters to drop down when you are not in there.
My workshop is concrete blocks and no windows for security reasons

You will need much more than 3x2 lintel over the window say 6 x2 with some ply to pack it out to 3" wide

Double up 3x2 on the window sides and round the door frame.

Bob


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