# 'Moxon' add-on vices



## condeesteso (20 May 2012)

I have been following the Stateside interest in these for quite some time, and decided to make a couple (the reason for 2 will follow).
Basically the idea of raising the workpiece sometimes is useful I think, and a bench height is a compromise: lower to get over the work, higher to work into the piece.
Anyway, without a whole bench to build at the moment, the fingers were getting a bit itchy.
An Axminster 1 1/2" screw cutter, some bits of beech and a scrap of oak:






The Axi screw -cutter is really good for £40. I needed a couple of practice shots first, but it works very well. I would say the linseed soak is really worthwhile. And I did a silly thing. I thought back the cutter off and take 2 bites, but obviously the reduced thread depth won't clear the threaded exit guide in the die, so wrong. Go to depth in one hit.
The pitch is slow compared to the big custom-made wooden vice screws, it is 6tpi, but it is OK for a small-scale vice.
The twin-screw is a really interesting vice anyway with talents all of its own - in particular clamping close to one screw and use the second to apply final clamping (leverage effect), or clamp outside of one screw and back the further one to tighten more. I like twin-screws.
V2 will have a few small mods, so I'll report back. V1 is 'going out for test' later this week. That means part repaying the Jim debt :lol:


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## marcros (20 May 2012)

Douglas,

I like this a lot. For V2, would it be worth having 2 additional holes tapped, so that should the need arise to dovetail a wider board, the vice will be able to do so between screws? Your may be able to- it is difficult to judge the scale, other than using the vice below.

Good work

Mark


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## jimi43 (20 May 2012)

Having monitored the thoughts and progress of this project I am delighted at the outcome.

I look forward to playing with it this week and will of course post my observations.

I simply love the medullary rays on the oak bosses...lovely! 

Jim


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## condeesteso (20 May 2012)

Hi Mark, understand I think. The clearance between screws was set at 9" (imperial, that) and there is a compromise as the 2 legs need to fit within a typical bench-vice face. It's easy to make it longer / wider... and my main twin screw will take 22" between screws, but the main use of this for me is smaller components. But you are right that it can be made easily to suit what you want to use it for, and the main bench it needs to fit onto.
Two mods to go in by the way - the left cheek is wider than the right (beyond the screws) - a fairly deep vee in both faces, vertical to fix small round shapes (tool handles etc), and a leather face to one side. That improves grip immensely. I meant to put the vee in before assembling the handles (which replace the need for garters)... it'll be a right sod now #-o

and p.s. Jim - it's a functional tool, get over the rays. I'll say they appeared by accident :lol:


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## condeesteso (22 May 2012)

Update time. Had a couple of 'issues' with v1. Due to hand it over tomorrow for test, but was not happy.
I've put the vertical vees facing each other to the left side (beyond the left screw) - router for that, noting the screws are fixed in now as the boss/handle is also effectively the garter.
Then decided the handles were no good - bad engineering, the walls are too thin relative to the big 28mm hole for the shaft, so they came off (rays n all).
Have turned a 3rd smaller dia down for the handles, so they step-reduce at the front face thickness. New ash handles. May be OK now but the bond for the handle takes all the shear when you tighten the vice, so possibly not, we will see.
A possible mod coming up is to pin through the handle and shaft, making the pin a lever to close the vice also. I'll do some pics maybe.
Good news is it is freeing up as the oil dries a bit.


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## marcros (22 May 2012)

I think that red leather vice faces would set it off a treat. ALthough keeping it British, perhaps BRG would be more apt?


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## condeesteso (22 May 2012)

Yes, I was planning leather to one face (don't really need both, another Mr Maguire tip) and have some tan coming. English and all that but red?..., BRG?. I rather think not (hammer)
Honestly. You northerners.


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## bugbear (23 May 2012)

condeesteso":3etaw3zg said:


> The twin-screw is a really interesting vice anyway with talents all of its own - in particular clamping close to one screw and use the second to apply final clamping (leverage effect), or clamp outside of one screw and back the further one to tighten more. I like twin-screws.



The old catalogues list small, cheap, twin screw wooden vises, and these are often shown as the vise of choice on workbench plans and designs aimed at the home handyman prior to roughly 1920. Cheap and versatile.

Ron Hickman used a twin screw vise as the basis of the workmate...

BugBear


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## AndyT (23 May 2012)

Nice work as ever Douglas - your idea of 'bits of beech' is a few grades above mine!
I've also been following this development on several US blogs and had vaguely thought about making one, wondering if my 3/4" threading kit would be big enough. 

There was one idea I read somewhere (can't find it now) saying to put the holes offset from the centre line of the long jaws, so you can use it on the bench as a general purpose clamp with a wide side and a narrow side.

That's an interesting point about the Workmate - it would be funny if all this effort sent us back round in a loop to where some of us started. I'm kicking myself at not picking up a scrap Workmate I saw a while back, just to get the screw mechanism. I think Ron Hickman did a good job choosing the right thread form for a good compromise between rapid action and tightness.


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## jimi43 (23 May 2012)

AndyT":yyi4z88l said:


> I'm kicking myself at not picking up a scrap Workmate I saw a while back, just to get the screw mechanism. I think Ron Hickman did a good job choosing the right thread form for a good compromise between rapid action and tightness.



As the proud owner of three of these things....I would like to donate one to the University ( :mrgreen: ) Professor.

I believe we may be passing the same way sometime soon?

Jim


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## bugbear (23 May 2012)

AndyT":3fwjd6h0 said:


> I think Ron Hickman did a good job choosing the right thread form for a good compromise between rapid action and tightness.



IIRC, the thread was one of the things B&D _changed_ from the workmate Mk1 when they bought the rights.

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (23 May 2012)

Nice job Douglas. I have a 'Moxon' planned for my new bench too, but I am going to make it easy on myself, and use two 'York' vice screws I got from Axminster. 

I do have an old Workmate that is in need of replacement, and it struck me that I could use the screws from that to make a 'benchtop' add on bench. So many ideas, so little time left! 

Nice work again. Smart Moxon.


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## Paul Chapman (23 May 2012)

bugbear":2medbg7z said:


> AndyT":2medbg7z said:
> 
> 
> > I think Ron Hickman did a good job choosing the right thread form for a good compromise between rapid action and tightness.
> ...



And over the years B&D changed just about everything in their relentless quest to dumb down the Workmate. A great shame because the original Workmate, manufactured by Mate Tools, was brilliant. Mine has been working hard for over 40 years and still works as well as it did the day I bought it.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## condeesteso (23 May 2012)

Yes, good point re the Workmate - had overlooked that but we have all used a workmate, and it's the 2-screw tricks of that which I find handy and interesting.
re the offset Andy, I did that, left side a good bit wider than right, as clamping outside of the screws is very impressive and can give better access.
Anyway, over to Jim to give it a workout-mate.
(were those original Workmates the cast frame unpainted ones? - made proper-like)


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## bugbear (23 May 2012)

condeesteso":2ylr9gls said:


> (were those original Workmates the cast frame unpainted ones? - made proper-like)



http://www.stylingandsalvage.com/2012/0 ... k-and.html

BugBear


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## AndyT (23 May 2012)

That's a great link BB - someone with 20 Workmates finds a reason to buy another! We only have two here - my wife's one and my one - both newer than that lovely one, and lacking the Roubo-esque hefty top.


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## jimi43 (23 May 2012)

I just received V1 to test...so that and another thread up soon once I process the pictures.

It is stunningly well made...the blinkin' wedges in the bosses even point up together when it is parallel.... :shock: 

I have a funny feeling this may live in my other vise a lot of the time!

Jim


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## condeesteso (23 May 2012)

I have asked Jim to work this v1 quite hard, as it is better to find its limits at this stage. I do have a v2 part-built anyway.
John - the Yorks will be very powerful, and I cannot remember the pitch but may move quicker than my wood ones (6tpi). The handles will need shortening I expect and it is important they don't hit each other in the middle. It'll work very well I'm sure but probably quite heavy. Are there smaller York-type screws around? Of course it depends on the scale vice you need - I just wanted a compact one for fairly small work. For most uses, I could actually make this smaller but the 9" (between screws) is ample I think.


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## custard (23 May 2012)

Wasn't there a David Charlesworth review of the Axminster thread cutters recently, maybe in F&C? 

Anyway I seem to recall that he thought (at least some of the Axminster sizes) weren't fit for purpose. I guess the 1 1/2" that you're using is working a treat. Anyone else remember that review?


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## jimi43 (23 May 2012)

The screws on V1 are perfect. Ok the pitch is a little fine but sometimes you need this. 

I am so busy playing with it at the moment that the review and photos will have to wait a while but I love the fact that I can position the work at the optimum height very quickly...I think this will certainly get some use!

Cheers Douglas!

Jim


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## condeesteso (23 May 2012)

I haven't seen the review but it may be worth noting the thread depth. The smallest 1/2" has a nut bored before tapping of 3/8ths. the biggest 1 1/2" is bored 1 3/8ths, so relative thread depth reduces as you go up in size. I find this odd, but on the v1 the 'nut' depth is effectively about 60mm. Whatever breaks I cannot see it being the threads.
The main reason I bought this one was for the taps really. I feel 'not fit for purpose' would have been extremely harsh, at £40. But as I say not seen the review.

(and Andy. Your wife has a Workmate? =D> . Mine has a KitchenAid.  )


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## condeesteso (24 May 2012)

update 2

v2 well under way. Bigger bosses, with the reduced dia that they fit over










The bosses were turned from some scrap - an old table leg or two. Does anyone know what this is - quite light, reasonably close grain, no significant knots... old hemlock maybe??





Happy with the thread form though it is not deep. Really soaking the stock first seems to result in a really clean cut





I think I will be pegging the 2 handle / bosses this time, but maybe clean the peg flush as the boss itself is likely to offer enough torque. And a leather face on one vice face.
Pic of finished v2 later (not tonight, later later).


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## marcros (24 May 2012)

i would have guessed at hemlock maybe. Looking good.


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## jimi43 (24 May 2012)

I know you know what I'm going to say but I'm going to say it anyway....that pattern in the thread is amazing! :shock: 

I have been using the V1 tonight....pretty impressive Douglas...the grip with virtually no turning is astounding...the flexibility of the leverage using one side is really handy and super quick...this will definitely be of benefit when working on round and odd shaped stock.

One thing that I noticed straight away...quite by accident..if you put a very uneven faced piece in which I did without thinking...bias can be added so that grip is maintained at both ends and in between which you won't get with a fixed vise.

Very versatile!

More review with pictures when I get a chance...(read..finished playing!)

Jim


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## condeesteso (24 May 2012)

Aha - the grain on the thread, yes. Clean threads though for a budget cutter set I reckoned. The linseed soak - amazing how much goes in (50/50 with turpentine, though I may well go to white spirit, there's a recession on). One way is 50mm plumbing pipe and a closure end, welded with the solvent weld - stick the blank and about a cupful of 50/50 in there and watch it disappear overnight... 
Yes the controlled racking is one feature of the twin-screw and Workmates of course. It's a trade-off - too much and the whole vice is too sloppy, but just enough is useful.


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## jimi43 (25 May 2012)

I've been playing with V1 today and finally dragged myself away from it for long enough to review it somewhat.

First of all I would like to review the build. I know that Douglas has built this as a prototype which is under continuous review and refinement in V2 and beyond....but honestly...the build quality of V1 would satisfy all but the most critical of users.

The handmade screws...given the method of manufacture are remarkably clean...






Screw pitch is a trade off between speed of adjustment and finness. The pitch is perhaps a little fine if you want to continuously go from closed to fully open...but honestly..why would you?

The tap produces a thread of the same quality....






I would love to see what this could do with boxwood!

Douglas has voiced his concern about the bosses....






...potentially pulling out...but I would seriously doubt this. V2 has however been changed to take account of improvements in this area though...

The quality of finish...considering this is from "scrap"...(yes really!)...is fine...and the attention to detail typical of what we have come to expect from this craftsman! 8) It is perhaps a little over the top that the boss wedges both point upwards when the jaws are precisely parallel. Douglas thought I might notice if he didn't do this...nah! Would I? :mrgreen: :wink: 

The jaws have a huge capacity at full stretch....






...and we can also see the bias on the jaws...which is really useful...as is the precisely placed and cut "V" groove....






...particularly useful for me...as it allows the secure but delicate clamping of round and irregular stock...like handles.

The Tru-Oil finish adds a beautiful touch (yes I'm biased!)....to the finish...protecting the wood with a super hard-wearing but tactile layer.

The vise fits beautifully in my No.52 1/2 and is rock solid...at even full height! 






I started out with a very thin piece of irregular English oak offcut....with the intention of precision planing it to a perfect square profile...and using my prototype plane...I was able to hold it at the right height and use my knuckles as guides along the top of the vise jaws...maintaining a perfectly flat...regular finish!

The deliberate racking of the individual screws allowed me to firmly lock the piece of stock...even though it started out with quite a taper. You don't realise how handy this is until you try to do it in the standard screw vise and the thin end slips down...however hard you tighten it. With the Moxon clone...it's firm at both ends...and all points in between.

I even went as far as planing down a 12 degree wedge...side on with no movement whatever! Try doing that in a stock vise!

I was going to make a wall mount to hold this vise when not in use...but I have a feeling that could remain quite empty for most of the time! This is going to stay right where it is for now!

Nice one Douglas...a great take on an old concept...right up my street! =D> 

Jim


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## condeesteso (28 May 2012)

Thanks for an excellent review Jim. V2 is almost finished now, with slightly bigger diameter bosses, a very slight taper on the front face so it closes at the top edge first (just, 1/2mm maybe) and leather to the face side which does improve grip considerably whilst needing less pressure. It's all too tight at the moment so needs some fettling, but it should free up with use anyway.
Will be making one more soon most likely in ash, maybe a bit of oak thrown in. I'll be interested to see how Jim's behaves after a few months use though.


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## jimi43 (9 Aug 2012)

Just a quick update on V1....which by the way is used by me every day!

Douglas and I both found ourselves turning the boss AND the thread to get grip to tighten perfectly.

To overcome the need for this and to add extra strength to the boss/threaded rod joint...I turned up some little pegs today.






Ok....yup...lignum vitae...strong as hell...I have more offcuts than boxwood which would have been my first choice






These may be small but they fit the thumb perfectly and the extra grip allows this superb vise to work more effectively.

And...LV is pretty!






Oh...and Douglas...I lined up the pegs with the wedges! I know you will be impressed with that detail! :wink: 

Jim


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## James C (9 Aug 2012)

I want to make one of these now. I've seen that benchcrafted make hardware for moxon vices, has anyone used one?


The only benefit that I can see is that they have a smoother action and open and close quickly.

What is the action like on the wooden screws do they take long to fully open/close?


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## jimi43 (9 Aug 2012)

James C":gpr4sdyb said:


> I want to make one of these now. I've seen that benchcrafted make hardware for moxon vices, has anyone used one?
> 
> 
> The only benefit that I can see is that they have a smoother action and open and close quickly.
> ...



The biggest benefit is that the vise has a wide height adjustment...which means that you can bring the stock up to the level you need for each particular job. Dovetails for instance are far easier and a higher working position.

Another benefit of the one that Douglas has made is that the V can be used to grip round objects such as handles.

I made two handles today for a draw knife I've had for a while awaiting a pair. I started the tang hole on the lathe but wanted to finish the depth manually so I simply put the handles in the V slot and then opened the other side to give super grip. It really is fast and convenient. This thing is worth having in the shop! I made some space under the bench for it...but frankly it hasn't been out of the Record 52 1/2 since I put it there.... :mrgreen: 

The vise is also great for end cuts...the grip is astounding and the vise can be raised up so that the saw is not fouled by the bench top.

The speed of opening/closing to full extent is slow but I hardly ever need to whiz where that is concerned. A coarser thread will speed things up.

I'm sure Douglas will be happy to advise you on construction tips.

Jim


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## bugbear (10 Aug 2012)

I hadn't realised until now that this vise is a 90-degree-turned-variant of my vise-on-a-stick

http://web.archive.org/web/200901140249 ... vise_stick

BugBear


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## condeesteso (10 Aug 2012)

Hi James - just had a look again at the Benchcrafted Moxon - they make very nice hardware indeed and I once almost got their wagon / tail vice but chose Richard Maguire's which is brilliant and rather less expensive.
I was surprised to note the Benchcrafted is 8tpi, though the wheels will spin fast and smooth no doubt. It looks like the kit would be about £150 landed and cleared UK, and whilst I like these vices, I don't like them that much :wink: 
The Axi thread cutter I use is 6tpi and it works very well provided you take care. Soak the screw stock in thinned linseed until it is thoroughly penetrated, and similarly get the female well oiled before tapping (and you thought this was a woodworking forum).
If I could cut the threads say 4tpi I certainly would but there is no option around to do that, and lathe turning the female must be quite tricky (not impossible if you have a thread-cutting lathe).
An alternative could be a pair of York style screws - Axi have various sizes from about £20 to £35, but you need a pair of course. And a metal-screw version will be fairly heavy.

I am about to make v4 for someone and from my own experience I may scale this one down a little.
The first 3 have been around 10" between centres (so clear about 8 1/2") with faces almost 20". I offset the screws so one end of faces extends further from the screw. Clamping outside of the screw (either end) is very handy and also powerful by backing the further screw, quite like the way we use Workmates as BB pointed out.
The key point for me has been scale - mine opens to about 8" (ridiculous) but it is used in the range near closed to max about 1 1/2". These things are great with smaller workpieces. So I may make the screws a bit shorter to give say 3" cap. This makes the thing easier to store I think.
Apart from that the pics explain everything I think.
If you did go for the Benchcrafted I'd be keen to hear more - very fine engineering indeed, just too pricey in the UK I feel... but they were close to appointing a UK distributor some time ago. Mike H at CHT may know something about that.
Keep us posted anyway.

p.s. ah yes Jim - excellent mod and beautifully executed. I expect no less :wink:


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## James C (11 Aug 2012)

condeesteso":344lxiq3 said:


> get the female well oiled before tapping (and you thought this was a woodworking forum).



Excellent!

Ok I will continue to have a think about it. My ambitious project list contains a few things and I think priorities need to be made.

It is however difficult as I want to build a decent tool box with dovetailed carcass sides and skirts first, BUT a Moxon vice would sure make that easier as would the bench that I haven't built/can afford to build yet.


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## AndyT (14 Aug 2012)

Those reading closely will have noticed Douglas's references to Mk1, Mk2 and Mk4. 
I am really chuffed to be able to say that I have Mk3 and it's wonderful!

It's a big solid thing:






so when clamped in the vice, it is rock solid at any height - which is great news for my back, which protests if I lean over too much at the wrong height or angle.

The build quality is gorgeous:






but it's also beautifully functional. Douglas and Jim have refined the design, as documented earlier in the thread, despite interruptions from some old codger wittering on about Workmates. The brown oak pegs in the handles give just enough to get hold of without getting in the way:






Here's a posed shot of how it might look if I was doing some dovetailing:






and here are some lap dovetails already completed!






One benefit of the precision with which it has been built is that I can use the top of a jaw to register the chisel against:











It is, as designed, excellent for holding round things:






All in all, it's a triumph of design and making. and will be really useful. 
I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get some photos up here - but stand by to see it cropping up in some proper action shots from now on. 

So big thanks again to Douglas for being so very generous with his time and expertise. 

=D> =D> =D> 

Every home should have one!


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## condeesteso (15 Aug 2012)

Delighted you are happy with it Andy... I trust the r/h thread will ease a little with use? It's hard and a bit hit-and-miss getting the 2 threads equal clearance, and I tend to prefer a tads tight at first, as it will ease up I expect.
The brown oak buttons should align when the face is parallel to the back...?
I notice in the lapped dovetail shot there is a point I may explore on v4. The top of the main vice prevents the workpiece from being lowered into the Moxon any lower than main bench top.
On the next one I may make the legs flush with back face to create some clearance in the main vice... if you see what I mean. Obviously the Record's screw and guides will come in the way but it would give a further say 4" of drop for the workpiece, or way more if it is mounted to the right of r/h screw.
I'm meandering now, sorry.
Very pleased you like it, it was a pleasure making it for one of the most respected (and pleasant) forum members.


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## James C (15 Aug 2012)

I guess that's why I have seen some moxon vices with no legs, designed to be clamped on the edge of a bench in between dogs or held down with F-cramps or holdfasts. I think I might move that way as it means no hardware gets in the way of a long carcass piece for example.






I don't like the handles on this but you can see the holdfasts in action and the space you get beneath.


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## condeesteso (15 Aug 2012)

yes James, that solves that one. Worth mentioning I think that with the above you have a single fixed jaw height, and one thing I like a lot about the vice mount is to set the height just where you want it. Also generally the workpieces are smallish... a drawer side say. I used mine a lot recently making a box and cutting dovetails in 5mm maple - i think they are great for work like that.
BUT - have both. The whole face / screw assembly and 2 backs, a vice-mount and a bench-top!
(I wonder where those screws came from?)


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## AndyT (15 Aug 2012)

Well, Douglas, you have immediately spotted what could be a design limitation if you want to work on the ends of long pieces. But thanks to James' comment, I have the solution!

It's perfectly practical to turn this vice round the other way and clamp it to the edge of the bench. This rapidly-posed photo shows how this can work:






I've used a Richard T Mk2 Holdfast (Thanks again Richard! =D> ) at one end and an F-cramp at the other where I don't have a suitable hole.
The legs don't get in the way. The knobs with their little pegs don't foul the bench top. You can reach round and turn them, or frankly just turn the threaded parts. And the only limit on the length is the height above the floor, as demonstrated by this old salvaged drawer back. (Where else would you go for straight, seasoned, 3/8" thick oak?)






And Richard, I tackled the slightly stiff r/h thread by carefully following along the thread with a coarse triangular needle file. I was left with a little pile of dust - the difference between stiff and easy is tiny - but they are now a perfectly matched pair, with pegs that line up when closed tight, with everything just so.


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## jimi43 (15 Aug 2012)

Sometimes the smartest solutions are the simplest Andy!! =D> 

I see a bright future over the next month with mine...I have to make something to store all these old woodies!!  

Jim


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## James C (15 Aug 2012)

Nice work there, maybe one can have it all!


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## No skills (15 Aug 2012)

So any newer versions of this vice will have bosses and little turn handles on both ends of the threads? :wink: 

Nice vice btw.


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## condeesteso (27 Aug 2012)

v4 now done, ready for a new home. Just made the screws a bit shorter as I saw no point having lots of capacity. This one will open to almost 4" which I think is more than enough and it becomes a little easier to store. I think I'll stop now.


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## condeesteso (29 Aug 2012)

Getting common, these things. v5... has to be the last surely?
I tend to raid the 'offcuts' pile for these, and fell upon a short board of lime. It dawned on me lime is much favoured by carvers partly because it behaves so well across the grain, and the screws are all cross-grain. I must say the threads into the lime are blinding. Usual pre-soak with boiled linseed 50/50 with white spirit (turps if you feel posh). Given the thread bearing surface is quite considerable, I am very confident the lime will work really well for many years.
The pegs for the bosses are African blackwood this time... inspired by the bridge pins of violins, cellos and the like ('twas a tuneful day).
See those curls of lime from the thread cutter... a good sign


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## Richard T (30 Aug 2012)

Wow Douglas - the V4 looks fantastic. 
The shorter screws make sense, considering its obvious primary use will be for the sawing of dovetails and dovetailing railway sleepers is not my bag - plenty long enough. 

I can't work out from the picture though, how the connection to the legs differs from Andy's V3; there seems to be only one sliding dovetail each side of Andy's and two each side on the V4 ...? or is it just too early in the morning?


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## xy mosian (30 Aug 2012)

condeesteso":z17pkvgy said:


> I haven't seen the review but it may be worth noting the thread depth. The smallest 1/2" has a nut bored before tapping of 3/8ths. the biggest 1 1/2" is bored 1 3/8ths, so relative thread depth reduces as you go up in size. I find this odd, but on the v1 the 'nut' depth is effectively about 60mm. Whatever breaks I cannot see it being the threads.
> The main reason I bought this one was for the taps really. I feel 'not fit for purpose' would have been extremely harsh, at £40. But as I say not seen the review.



Hi Douglas, sorry to go back to an earlier post of yours, but I am interested in the thread form. The Axminster images seem to show a thread angle of about 60 degrees. Your dimensions for the 'tapping hole' would appear to give a thread depth of 1/16". I can't quite get my head around the maths. Is the thread in the female really that shallow?

Well done on the whole development by the way. A fascinating job on your part and a good collaboration with Jim.
xy


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## condeesteso (30 Aug 2012)

Yes Richard, no two are quite the same. v4 has dovetail at front (an engineering aberration but still easily strong enough). v5 has a fatter dovetail at back again.
Re thread depth xy, the hole for internal is bored 1 3/8, the round for thread external is turned 1 1/2, so thread depth can only be a mere 1/16th". It's odd as it looks much deeper than that but the start dimensions are right. I'll take a closer look at actual thread and angles anyway. Generally the axial depth of thread is about 60mm anyway, and I could not imagine ever stripping a thread.


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## xy mosian (30 Aug 2012)

Thanks Douglas. As you say it works. Brings into perspective the need for accurate turning of the un-threaded male screw.
xy


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## keithkarl2007 (3 Apr 2013)

Sorry for dragging this post up again, but I just came across it for the first time. These look awesome.


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## jimi43 (3 Apr 2013)

keithkarl2007":3sfflq4n said:


> Sorry for dragging this post up again, but I just came across it for the first time. Theses look awesome.



Don't apologise mate! This thread deserves a new lease of life...Douglas made a brilliant bit of kit there...use mine a lot!

Jimi


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## keithkarl2007 (3 Apr 2013)

I'd love to make one but my woodworking skills wouldn't include great threading and tapping like that.


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## condeesteso (27 Apr 2013)

sorry slow back on this. It's a big cheat KK, just a thread cutting set from Axi, about £40 I recall. I got the biggest they do 1 1/2 inch. If you were closer I'd happily lend it out. Cover post and borrow it if you fancy. The only other stuff you need is some offcut hardwoods, and a bit of plumbing 1 1/2 pipe (pvc), blocked one end, drop the screw blanks in and soak in thinned linseed for a day prior to cutting the threads. The set includes the tap for female also, so it's easy really.


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## Eric The Viking (28 Apr 2013)

There's a "Woodwright's Shop" episode on these vices (Chris Schwartz + Roy), I think in the most recent series.

It's a really interesting discussion IIRC.

E. (rapidly turning into a devotee of St. Roy!)


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## condeesteso (2 May 2013)

Eric, I would like to see that (those two never fail to impress) - how might I find it? Particularly I want to see what they do to cut the threads. The Axi set is rather fine pitch for a vice - the big specialist wood screws for vices (often 2"+ stock dia) are far coarser pitch and therefore way faster to use. In theory maybe I can cut really coarse threads on my Myford, but will I ever get around to investigating that??


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## bugbear (2 May 2013)

condeesteso":1g7cd56z said:


> Eric, I would like to see that (those two never fail to impress) - how might I find it? Particularly I want to see what they do to cut the threads. The Axi set is rather fine pitch for a vice - the big specialist wood screws for vices (often 2"+ stock dia) are far coarser pitch and therefore way faster to use. In theory maybe I can cut really coarse threads on my Myford, but will I ever get around to investigating that??



Here's some inspiration:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f152/wood ... se-131710/

Here's a big, coarse screw:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... oden-screw

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... iant-screw

BugBear


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## Eric The Viking (2 May 2013)

Found it: http://video.unctv.org/video/2265291141.
It's also on the main PBS site. They use slightly different players, so you might find t'other works better.

Ee'll get trapped. Oi's warnin' ee! 



E.


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## condeesteso (3 May 2013)

Thanks all - I had a look BB - the coarse thread will be excellent indeed, I just cannot face the time and effort of making the tap, and would need to investigate if the Myford can cut such coarse pitches. If I was serious about these things ('Moxon' vices) I'd maybe get a toolroom to make the tap for me... but it's too far down the 'to do' list.
I would say if anyone with the lathe and mill fancied making these, they would be worth quite a lot as custom-made wood screws for vices are pricey - Richard Maguire's are really excellent but £160 each (£295 a pair) - 2 1/2", 2 tpi. But even when you have the right tap, you still need a big lathe I guess to cut the male thread.
I'd been wondering if a good add-on vice could use steel screws (York-style).
I will definitely watch the video of Chris S and RH... 2 of my favourites.


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## bugbear (3 May 2013)

condeesteso":3556xkk6 said:


> Thanks all - I had a look BB - the coarse thread will be excellent indeed, I just cannot face the time and effort of making the tap, and would need to investigate if the Myford can cut such coarse pitches.



AFAIK any screwcutting lathe can do what you need - you just need the changewheels.

Roy Underhill shows a method of using the large male screw itself to cut the nut, no tap required.

Wow.

This guy "did it all". I can't find a way to get a simple narrative on his blog, but it's all there

http://dblaney.wordpress.com/category/wooden-screws/

Finally found a "full on" trad write up:

http://lumberjocks.com/mochoa/blog/28554

(summary: make lead screw with "slot" thread, make false nut with bent metal thread segment, use cutter on lead screw to cut nut, couple lead screw to bolt blank to cut bolt)

BugBear


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## AndyT (3 May 2013)

All excellent links BB - straight into the Bookmarks! (some of them were there already but it's really useful to have them consolidated like this).


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## condeesteso (4 May 2013)

Agreed, excellent research BB. In shall look further into Mr Underhill's work on this too, although I am wary of the hours doing this could take. If only someone made a smaller wood screw and nut (say 1 1/2") with a steep pitch (3 tpi??) they would have a nice business I suspect.


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## Eric The Viking (4 May 2013)

The commercial screw boxes are all very well, but they make the assumption that you can cut the thread in one pass.

They have to work that way, because the cut thread then has to enter the wooden thread, to pull the work through. 

It has to be said, though, that Roy Underhill screw box has a better design of blade than other people, using something that looks a bit like a carving "V" gouge. The picture quality wasn't very good on the episode about screw boxes (heavily over-compressed IMHO), but I think he ended-up with a much cleaner thread than most of the ones I've seen - less breaking of the tip of the thread.

On that subject, in metal the Acme thread form is supposed to be one of the strongest and suitable for leadscrews and vice screws. The wooden ones I've seen all tend to be basically triangular. Has anyone found any research as to the best thread for the purpose, or is the general idea just to make them as big, in diameter and pitch, as possible and hope for the best?

It's just tweaked my curiosity at the moment*

E.

*too easily done - must focus more!


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## jimi43 (4 May 2013)

Anyone interested in wooden threads should watch this superb video by Stephen Fry about the Gutenberg Press...

PART ONE HERE

You get links to all three parts on the first DM page.

Cheers

Jim


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## Chop (4 May 2013)

When we bought our pair of narrowboats there was already the top of an old workmate mounted on one of the benches in the butty's workshop







The workmate can be seen on the left, these pics were taken before I installed my Hobbies treadle lathe by building it into the right-hand bench






Edited to fix images


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## rileytoolworks (4 May 2013)

Douglas, these vice are all excellent my friend.
Consider a few of the details stolen :wink: 

All the best.
Adam.


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## AndyT (6 May 2013)

Is it too late to suggest doing it like this?











These are actually of an eighteenth century wine press in southern France - I could claim them as an example of what can be done at one end of the scale - even chunkier than the printing press screw - but really I've just been waiting for an excuse to share them! ;-) I'd guess at about 4" per thread.


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## condeesteso (7 May 2013)

That's an amazing screw Andy - I imagine it was hand-cut too. I was thinking of something a bit smaller.
Adam - I wonder if Riley Toolworks may be persuaded to go into production on either the tools to make 1 1/2" 3 maybe 4 tpi screws and nuts, or just go all the way and produce the screws and nuts finished, sold as pairs maybe. Someone needs to do this


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## The Wood Butcher (12 May 2013)

I just finished making mine today using the Benchcrafted hardware and some hard maple, I'll put up pics if anyone is interested.


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## James C (12 May 2013)

The Wood Butcher":1ek5vddj said:


> I just finished making mine today using the Benchcrafted hardware and some hard maple, I'll put up pics if anyone is interested.



I'd definitely would like to see the results of Benchcrafted hardware.

How was it getting the hardware imported to the UK?


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## condeesteso (18 May 2013)

me too re the Benchcrafted - the maple should be very good too. Pics etc please.


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## The Wood Butcher (18 May 2013)

Here you go. Importing the hardware was no problem, just had to give the Revenue an excessive cut...

Suffice to say it will be used on a normal bench rather than on the MFT, although it works okay on it, it's just not stable enough.


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## condeesteso (25 May 2013)

The BenchCrafted components look really good here - rock solid I suspect, and nicely dull and engineering-like (I have seen some BenchCrafted looking a bit shiny for my tastes). And your maple faces etc Butcher also very nice - I did mine in ash (just lying around) but I am inclined to regard these things as 'users' - I mean they will get damaged etc over time.... so take care (sure you will!).
One thing I found through use was making them smaller. My first were about (I think) 14" between centres, and later I dropped that to about 10" - as I use it for small components this worked better for me. Really excellent things though, I'm still using mine a lot (currently making another box... they are great at that scale I find).

p.s. and Jim's link to the S Fry vids is really well worth a look, well found Sputnik


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## Fromey (15 Jun 2013)

A little birdy told me there might be a UK source of this type of hardware some time soon. I, for one, have my fingers crossed.


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## AndyT (16 Jun 2013)

Just to add an example to this long and interesting thread... I recently made a fairly quick and rough box out of some reclaimed parana pine I had been given. It was a good excuse to do some dovetailing:






so I was able to use my Moxon vice to pare in between the pins:






not a very well-posed shot but it should show that the broad level surfaces make a jig for the blade. This shows it a bit better:






Parana, like other softwoods, is both tough and soft, so you need very sharp tools and a light cut. In this shot you can see some rough areas - that's just me; but even so they were a lot tidier than in my earlier attempt, where I had tried chopping down onto the bench in the conventional way.






What matters just as much is that the working position is much more comfortable - at my age I have to be careful not to bend over in one position for too long.

Another nice aspect of this particular job was that I found a nice quick way to saw off the waste between the pins and tails - using my foot-powered fret saw:
















I could go really quite close to the line and complete a cut quickly. To angle the saw for the end of the cut I just slipped a bit of scrap under the board to tilt it a bit - not something I'd do casually with a motorised saw, but with this you can feel exactly how it is going.


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## condeesteso (19 Jun 2013)

Very impressive Andy. You now have me interested in the foot-powered fret saw. I generally use a jewellers fret saw to remove most of the waste, but your device looks very good. I am wondering about floor space however, as I seem to be running out of it.
I do agree by the way, the 'Moxon' vices are handy as a top reference face... I also made a really simple Tee-shaped long thing to clamp in that vice, and use as a chopping base. Clamp it in the vice, and chop down at a nicer height (make the top sacrificial, ply, etc). I do find I use mine more than I thought I would (though the current box has something to do with that).


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