# Help identifying vintage screwdriver



## jimi43 (31 May 2010)

Hi All...

Today's only find at a small bank holiday bootfair was this fine screwdriver:







It is so beautifully made and feels perfectly balanced...






It was strangely used in the motor trade by the looks of it as it was totally black when I got it and ingrained....not just covered in old engine oil!

Took a while to get all the gunk off but it was worth it and it appears to have preserved it...






It's going to take a few more tries on the wood to get all the old black oil out but I think it will be beautiful wood...I am not sure what the wood is...because of the blackening...

Help to identify the age of this type of chisel....I suspect Victorian...

Perhaps Gary would know (OldTools) if you are around mate?

Jim


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## Jamesc (31 May 2010)

Hi I don't know much about these but I have seen them called 'Perfect Handle' A quick Google brings up a load of American sites so I assume that it is of American origin or at least design.

Hope this helps

James


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## jimi43 (31 May 2010)

Jamesc":3meiq469 said:


> Hi I don't know much about these but I have seen them called 'Perfect Handle' A quick Google brings up a load of American sites so I assume that it is of American origin or at least design.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> James



Yes...I have been Googling since I got it and that description seems to be correct (and spot on description too as it fits perfectly!)

I understand from one site that it used to be part of a 1920s Cadillac toolkit...

Those were the days!

Any more info gratefully received...it's going up on my shelf for my plane adjustment...it suits that job...um...Perfectly!!

 

Jim


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## AndyT (31 May 2010)

A good source for this sort of info is old catalogues. Good sources of old catalogues are the Toolemera site and Rose Antique Tools at 

http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id220.html

They have a 1935 Buck and Hickman catalogue here http://www.roseantiquetools.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/buckhickman.pdf (12Mb pdf). 

Look at page 83 of the pdf (650 of the print catalogue) and I think you'll find your screwdriver - somewhere between 1s 1d and 2s 7d according to size.


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## matthewwh (31 May 2010)

I did a bit of digging on these a while back as I was hoping to get someone to make them again. Apparently they are called undertaker's screwdrivers, designed to fit into an undertaker's jacket pocket and used for screwing down the lid on coffins. As far as I'm concerned they are an extremely robust design and worth bringing back into production, but as yet no joy with the makers.


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## awkwood (31 May 2010)

There was a good toolshop in lancaster that sold clay tools
They sold the usual high quaility clay squares and gauges, but im sure they made screwdrivers similar to these
They were clay perfect pattern screwdrivers and were available in approx 4" and 6" long and were very expensive at the time


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (31 May 2010)

They are actually quite common, made by a few companies. 

I have a bunch of them ...






They are nice looking and tough, but not so great to use. Just not as grippy as the cabinet screwdrivers to the left. So they are more often used for opening cans!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## AndyT (31 May 2010)

They could be quite old - also on the Rose Tools site is a wonderful catalogue from London dealer Richard Melhuish. It's not dated, but looks about early 1900s to me - the Stanley 55 has nice floral decoration!

Anyway, the perfect handled screwdrivers are there, on page 51/53 at prices between 1s 1d and 3s 1d with the wonderful description:

_The "Perfect" Screwdriver. 
A special highly finished Solid Pattern.
Can be used as a hammer._


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## Benchwayze (31 May 2010)

I have one from Atkinson & Sons, Sheffield. It is 21 cm overall length. 
Blade is 12 cm to the hilt. 

I had it given me with a bunch of old tools by a cabinetmaker who retired in 1966. I've never used it, but someone has; even clouted it with a hammer it seems. As the handle is steel cased, maybe that was intentional when it was designed. I suppose it would be useful for shifting stubborn slot-head screws and bolts. 

I'll photograph this after tea this evening. 

John.


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## Shrubby (31 May 2010)

HI Jim
The 1972 Buck & hickman still lists them as "perfect handle pattern screwdrivers" - cast steel blades run the whole length of the handle securely riveted - TOGA branded
I'd hollow ground the tip to better grip the screw (like VSM pattern)
Matt


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## jimi43 (1 Jun 2010)

Guys! You are a WEALTH of information and sorry for the late response..I have been working since I posted it...

Amazing info there maties....and I am so pleased that I have learned something new today...I always try to follow that maxim.

I actually find this really tactile now that I have naptha'd the grease out of the wood. It looks like an oak grain but it may be a lighter rosewood...here is a close-up of the handle:






It will be part of my plane collection...the tip is exactly the size I need for screws, bolts and even the old cap iron bolt which I hate using the cap to release! The steel is super hard...which leads me to believe that making copies would be a bit of a trial Matt....you would need to source a manufacturer that understood that. I can also see the handles (or scales to give them their correct name) would be very labour intensive...they appear to be hand finished in situ.

Those who said it was through steel and "used as a hammer" are correct!

It is one piece of conical steel hammered at the end to produce the tip and scalloped either side to produce the recesses for the scales which are then through riveted with steel rivets.

Thanks for the photo of your collection Derek...is there nothing that you don't have? :wink: 

Cheers guys! Excellent sleuthing!

Jim


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## Benchwayze (1 Jun 2010)

Here's mine Jim...

A bit battered and probably an English derivative. Stamped Atkinson & Sons, Sheffield.







Hope this is of interest. 
The guy who gave it to me was in his 80's around 1963-4

John


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## jimi43 (1 Jun 2010)

Thanks for that John...I had never seen one until the other day and I really love the design....it is a pity these things die as Matt was saying earlier.

I think it is hard to determine the exact age of an individual piece...they seem to have been invented in the late 1800 and then we have evidence of continuous sales up to about 1972 so far. Obviously they serve a purpose...

Mine has probably snapped at the very tip..(probably from opening too many paint tins......Derek!!!) and has been reground flat and quite wide.

This is ideal for me as I need a wide tip to cope with the wide cap screw and it is a perfect fit for the frog screws, the frog adjuster and the handle bolts.

Yup...this is a keeper!

Jim


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (1 Jun 2010)

> Mine has probably snapped at the very tip..(probably from opening too many paint tins......Derek!!!) and has been reground flat and quite wide.



The problem with this screwdrivers is that the blades tend to be triangulated (a common problem with most screwdrivers). The ends look like this ...






As a result, they wedge into the screw slot, and eventually they will cam out (slip out) the slot when pressure is exerted. This also damages the edges of the slot.

The solution is quite simple, and only takes a few minutes to remedy - Hollow grind the blade until the end is parallel. Use a bench grinder. I did this without any special set up, simply freehanding the blade on the tool rest. Do not alter the thickness of the end of the blade. Only remove the taper. Finally, clean/square up the end on a disk sander.

Here is the result …











Go to it!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## jimi43 (1 Jun 2010)

See....I can't do that freehand Derek...I simply don't have the dimensional perspective with the one eye....

I think I have it level and because I can't see down on it I get a spatial error. It is really annoying!

I need a jig to get that sort of result...

Nil desperandum...I am working on the jig now.

Jim


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## bugbear (2 Jun 2010)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> The solution is quite simple, and only takes a few minutes to remedy - Hollow grind the blade until the end is parallel. Use a bench grinder. I did this without any special set up, simply freehanding the blade on the tool rest. Do not alter the thickness of the end of the blade. Only remove the taper. Finally, clean/square up the end on a disk sander.
> 
> Here is the result …
> 
> ...



Whilst I agree that hollow grinding a screwdriver tip gives a parallel tip (at least for the depth of the slot), I would recommend using the smallest diameter wheel you can find. Derek's example is far too long and thin, resulting in excess weakness and potential snapping.

BugBear


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (2 Jun 2010)

> Whilst I agree that hollow grinding a screwdriver tip gives a parallel tip (at least for the depth of the slot), I would recommend using the smallest diameter wheel you can find. Derek's example is far too long and thin, resulting in excess weakness and potential snapping.



BB

And you can tell this by looking at part of a picture? :roll: 

The aim is to reduce the tip to the same thickness as the average slot it will be used in, and the make sure that that the blade is parallel in two dimensions (thickness and width). 

I do not see how a smaller wheel would make this modification easier. In fact it would make the task of grinding away waste more difficult since it is apt to gouge more deeply. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Racers (2 Jun 2010)

Hi,

I read on a watchmaking forum that the screwdriver shouldn't bottom out in the screw, otherwise it can damage the slot.


Pete


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (2 Jun 2010)

From Wikipedia...

Among slotted screwdrivers, there are a couple of major variations at the blade or bit end involving the profile of the blade as viewed face-on. The more common type is sometimes referred to as keystone, where the blade profile is slightly flared before tapering off at the end. To maximize access in space-restricted applications, the same edges for the cabinet variety, in contrast, are straight and parallel, meeting the end of the blade at a right angle; this is frequently used in jeweler's screwdrivers, among other applications. Many text books and vocational schools will instruct mechanics to grind the tip of the blade, which will increase the thickness of the tapered tip for a more precise engagement with the slot in the screw. This approach will create a set of graduated slotted screwdrivers that can be select fitted to a particular screw for a tighter engagement and to reduce the deformation of the screw head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screwdriver

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Shadowfax (2 Jun 2010)

I've got a couple of those somewhere in my little-used tool boxes.

I will have to go and find them now, won't I?

I reckon they will be covered in oily, dusty sort of stuff, though.

Time for a clean up, then!

SF


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## mahking51 (3 Jun 2010)

Hi All,
These are known as Perfect Pattern screwdrivers and are very nice indeed if in good nick.

The prized ones are by SHELLEY and have a number in a circle at the tip.

Dereks description of how to do the tips is spot on IMHO

I have a lot of these and often redo the scales in exotic woods with brass rivets and they sell very well indeed.
Cheers,
Martin


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