# Britain's Best Woodworker



## brocher

So it has started! Watching?


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## baldkev

Nope


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## Jameshow

Yeap ...

Looks promising no Matt Lucas or Noel so that's a bonus!! 

Interesting venue.... 

Plenty of interesting design.... 


Cheers James


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## Jacob

Gone off it already.


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## paul-c

me too Jacob


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## Doug71

It's not looking too bad


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## paulrbarnard

Hanging in there. Somewhat simplistic but my wife is enjoying it.

frustrating to hear a planet called a sander, not once but twice.


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## JefL

“I don’t have enough time for proper joints so I’m using decking screws”……

That just about says it all.


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## Gareth62

Radha annoys my with his voice and always smiling but he doing some good work


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## Gareth62

JefL said:


> “I don’t have enough time for proper joints so I’m using decking screws”……
> 
> That just about says it all.


Yes Tim’s work is rough


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## scooby

Lump hammer assembly made me cringe..could have at least used a scrap block to protect the work piece.

Fairly certain, I've seen Joe on YouTube


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## JefL

scooby said:


> Lump hammer assembly made me cringe..could have at least used a scrap block to protect the work piece.



My thoughts exactly.


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## Awac

scooby said:


> Lump hammer assembly made me cringe..could have at least used a scrap block to protect the work piece.
> 
> Fairly certain, I've seen Joe on YouTube


Lol, made me wince as well.

wonder if I ask channel 4 for the off cuts….


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## Gareth62

Lump hammer assembly made me cringe..could have at least used a scrap block to protect the work piece.




Awac said:


> Lol, made me wince as well.
> 
> wonder if I ask channel 4 for the off cuts….


Was thinking the same


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## scooby

Oh, lathe action..next week..that'll be interesting


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## baldkev

I havent watched it but it sounds like britains best woodworker needs to go back to day release


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## Awac

scooby said:


> Oh, lathe action..next week..that'll be interesting


I was thinking exactly that looking at the long flowing headscarf in the workshop…..


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## Awac

baldkev said:


> I havent watched it but it sounds like britains best woodworker needs to go back to day release


You really didn’t miss much…..will give it one more go..


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## Allen Quay

scooby said:


> Fairly certain, I've seen Joe on YouTube



His YouTube channel is called Average Joe's Joinery.


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## Barlow

Another pathetic attempt at making a woodworking programme.
Waste of my time.
Waste of good wood.


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## DBT85

Any Nazis on it this time?


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## Jacob

I suppose it was fairly harmless nonsense.
Same format as Bake Off and Sewing Bee.
Come to think I found "The Great British Sewing Bee" quite watchable. Maybe I should have taken up dress making instead of woodwork. Too late now!


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## Awac

DBT85 said:


> Any Nazis on it this time?


I didn’t see anyone with tattoos……on show, lol


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## Phil Pascoe

scooby said:


> Oh, lathe action..next week..that'll be interesting


or bloody scary.


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## woodieallen

Jacob said:


> I suppose it was fairly harmless nonsense.
> Same format as Bake Off and Sewing Bee.
> Come to think I found "The Great British Sewing Bee" quite watchable. Maybe I should have taken up dress making instead of woodwork. Too late now!


You're never too late to stitch something up, Jacob.


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## Awac

Jacob said:


> I suppose it was fairly harmless nonsense.
> Same format as Bake Off and Sewing Bee.
> Come to think I found "The Great British Sewing Bee" quite watchable. Maybe I should have taken up dress making instead of woodwork. Too late now!


I found the judges of BBW without any charm or passion. They might have it, but it didn’t come across on the tv.

I agree sewing bee was alright. Pottery throw down as well. Er, I was made to watch them…..lol


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## Awac

Phil Pascoe said:


> or bloody scary.


Or just bloody….


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## Phil Pascoe

Well, at least they got the appalling Mel Giedroyc instead of the even more appalling Katherine Ryan.


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## scooby

Barlow said:


> Another pathetic attempt at making a woodworking programme.
> Waste of my time.
> Waste of good wood.



Totally agree..there was a fair amount (money wise) of timber being used.

I love how the judge bloke described the ply bed as a good use of ecomomical material. Birch ply has never been economical (imo). it'd be interesting to know when this was filmed in regards to current timber prices.


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## Phil Pascoe

I thought the contrast interesting - I thought the jewellery series was probably far more interesting if you had knowledge and experience of what they were doing (I have), this was possibly more interesting if you you knew nothing.


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## scooby

Phil Pascoe said:


> or bloody scary.


Probably a bit mean..but I'm secretly hoping to see some spectacular catches


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## doctor Bob

Jacob said:


> Come to think I found "The Great British Sewing Bee" quite watchable. Maybe I should have taken up dress making instead of woodwork. Too late now!



Just keep buying them off the shelf Jacob, making is a pain and homemade lace panties are quite uncomfortable and chaffy.


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## Phil Pascoe

doctor Bob said:


> Just keep buying them off the shelf Jacob, making is a pain and homemade lace panties are quite uncomfortable and chaffy.


They would be the way Jacob knits them - from raw hemp, the way they used to.


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## Phil Pascoe

It rather reminded me of taking an Ideal Homes Exhibition brochure to my woodwork master in 1971 - he looked through it and said brilliant! just about everything you should never do is there.


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## Jacob

doctor Bob said:


> Just keep buying them off the shelf Jacob, making is a pain and homemade lace panties are quite uncomfortable and chaffy.


You have to make sure you've taken all the pins out. That's one thing I do know.


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## JefL

doctor Bob said:


> Just keep buying them off the shelf Jacob, making is a pain and homemade lace panties are quite uncomfortable and chaffy.



You need to finish the seams with an overlocker.

(I had help with this reply)

Jef


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## DBT85

Awac said:


> I didn’t see anyone with tattoos……on show, lol


Ah, progress at least.


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## Orraloon

OK no idea who you lot are talking about. Is it worth my time searching it out on line?


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## MikeK

Orraloon said:


> OK no idea who you lot are talking about. Is it worth my time searching it out on line?



This should get you started. 



https://www.channel4.com/programmes/handmade-britains-best-woodworker


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## Orraloon

thanks


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## robgul

Disappointing - the highlight, if there was one, was the plywood bed.

Of the judges, the bloke with the green outfit was arrogant to the point of indifference - and the woman was a Monica Galetti (from Masterchef) clone with a selection from the Standard Book of Cliches.


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## petermillard

scooby said:


> …it'd be interesting to know when this was filmed in regards to current timber prices.


It was shot September last year, and was originally called Good With Wood; the show was shelved after ‘The Chop’ tattoo debacle, and re-branded as Britains Best Woodworker for release this year.

Joe Whittaker is Average Joes Joinery on YouTube, nice chap, very capable.

HTH P


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## okeydokey

Any idea what wood they were using to make the printing blocks?


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## Phil Pascoe

Considering many had never carved before, probably lime.


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## hlvd

scooby said:


> Lump hammer assembly made me cringe..could have at least used a scrap block to protect the work piece.
> 
> Fairly certain, I've seen Joe on YouTube



He was my only hope till I saw that


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## hlvd

What a disappointment, beautiful workshop, top of the range tools, expensive timber but contestants who all but one were amateurs who were rough as hell and didn’t have a clue. Radha seems to be the only person with an idea although using a lump hammer to assemble that frame was definitely a no no.


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## Cooper

Rather disappointed. As usual for DIY shows they spent more time highlighting the contestants personality defects than on their making techniques. I suspect that if someone watched who had no practical experience they would be none the wiser.
They had lots of nice bits of timber that only a few of them made good use of. Though I don’t think I’d be able to make a decent bed with an exotic theme in two days. Though it looks as though there were lots of good machines, 5 competent technicians and all the timber was prepared to size which would save a lot of time.
I think I’ll watch next week as I’m curious what novice turners will manage at their first attempt. 

Cheers
Martin


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## akirk

thought it was okay, the show has to appeal to the public and my wife and I enjoyed watching it - job done


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## robgul

Phil Pascoe said:


> Considering many had never carved before, probably lime.



When printing presses used engraved wooden type and carved blocks for illustrations (think of old-style theatre posters) the wood was usually boxwood as it's very stable and can be smoothed to the point of there being no raised grain, and the grain wouldn't be raised by printing ink or cleaning solvents (usually white spirit) The smooth surface would accept an even coat of ink to transfer solid colour to the paper, under pressure in the machine. 

The "prints" in the show were pretty patchy, but given hand inking and not much paper pressure they did show the results.


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## Phil Pascoe

robgul said:


> the wood was usually boxwood ...



Yes, I know. But these were unskilled people doing a quick job for a TV programme.


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## kinverkid

I think it's worth at least another watch. It's made to entertain which I think it will do for the larger audience. In my opinion it was judged fairly. The block print I thought was the best one and the best bed was for me between Rhada and Joe's. Even with all those tools, cut timber and technician's help I thought most did well to get the task done after a fashion in two days.


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## robgul

Phil Pascoe said:


> Yes, I know. But these were unskilled people doing a quick job for a TV programme.




.... my post was for "trivia and information" - not a reflection on your comment! Boxwood would have been almost impossible for them to work with - for what they were doing pretty much any softwood would work.


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## accipiter

okeydokey said:


> Any idea what wood they were using to make the printing blocks?



Seeing as I forgot the reminder to watch this programme and will have to go to catch up for it... and I've been out of "wood working proper" () for a number of years, I'll put forward a cheap (30+ years ago anyway) wood called Jelutong - don't know if it's still available? 

Other woods, as already put forward, Lime and Box wood - as lime was mentioned I'm assuming the wood was pale in colour (remember I've yet to catch up) hence my mention of Jelutong. When I worked for the timber/craft company 30 years ago Box wood wasn't available in any big'ish sizes so I'd not think it was that.

Rambling on something yet to see - not a good thing do do


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## MorrisWoodman12

doctor Bob said:


> Just keep buying them off the shelf Jacob, making is a pain and homemade lace panties are quite uncomfortable and chaffy.


One has to wonder how you know


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## Jacob

JefL said:


> You need to finish the seams with an overlocker.
> 
> (I had help with this reply)
> 
> Jef


Fur lining is good too. One cat is just enough for one pair - I saw that on the TV somewhere. It was a series "Make More of your Pets"


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## Austin Branson

I watched it. I thought some of the designs were interesting, though working out HOW to make it, wasn’t. The young lady sent home deserved it. It was both ill conceived and incredibly poorly made. I have to wonder what the criteria were to be a contestant. Warm and breathing? I apologize in advance for that last quip.


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## dickm

Yes, have to agree with the frequent comment of disappointing. But that was probably inevitable, as they were trying to interest folk who knew something about woodworking and a general public who (it is assumed) want more of the "human interest" stuff. So probably didn't really please either.


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## Owd Jockey

When similar sort of shows such as bake off, sewing bee, blown away etc first introduce their competitors, most have a good degree of competance, some more than others depending on the type of work. I'm afraid I doubt I would employ any of these individulas in my shop, well maybe 2 of them. I mean, all but one, I think used any recognisable joint in the bed challenge. Some of the "contestants" simply screwing two pieces of wood together. I have seen more skill assembling Ikea flat pack furniture than what was on show last night! I'll watch one more episode, because I want to see what mayhem they get up trying to turn wood. The ultimate goal of declaring "Britains Best Woodworker" certainly sounds very hollow at this point in time. Britain has many thousands of brilliant crafts people, especially woodworkers, a millions times better than me. I just hope, that should this show get a second series those individuals present themselves.


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## Stigmorgan

Set the box to series link record so I can watch when I'm able, watched it this morning and have to say the designs were appealing to me on the most part, the execution of most was disappointing, as usual not enough (by which I mean virtually none) of the actual work is shown, I am by no means experienced or skilled at woodworking but the guy with the boat bed should have been ashamed of himself with the work he presented, his rocking design would be great for a baby/toddler bed but not for an adults bed, the packing pieces of ply used could at least have been glued together and shaped to look like a single piece that actually belonged rather than a panic driven after thought.  
The Oak sleeper "pond" bed had so much potential but was very poorly thought out and what was offered up as a finished item should have only taken half of the first day to produce.
Personally my favoured design was the cherry tree post, it would have looked better without the thinner branches and woodchuck leaves, I really liked the contrast between processed lumber and natural tree shapes.
They learned early on not to let the presenter touch their work.


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## recipio

Not one of them used K/D fittings. How did they expect to move the bed ! Really I thought all the designs were amateurish especially the railway sleeper bed - designed to rap your shins every time. !


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## scooby

JefL said:


> You need to finish the seams with an overlocker.
> 
> (I had help with this reply)
> 
> Jef


Being a former computer nerd, I keep reading that as overclocker


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## Hand Plane

Where's Barry Bucknell when you need him?


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## Jacob

Hand Plane said:


> Where's Barry Bucknell when you need him?


Dead and gorn 
Did he make his own coffin - tack and tape - stitch and glue construction like his Mirror Dinghy?


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## HamsterJam

What about the presenter snapping the branch of the cherry tree bedstead?? Surprised how well the contestant took it or maybe the swearing was edited out. 

I wonder what they did with the items afterwards. Will we see the wood recycled in subsequent projects or did they donate to or auction them for good causes?


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## yorkshirepudding

I didn’t watch it but am familiar with the genre. Making people look small or stupid seems to be the main objective. They never show how things are done properly and would rather show cock ups.


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## Phil Pascoe

Jacob said:


> Dead and gorn
> Did he make his own coffin - tack and tape - stitch and glue construction like his Mirror Dinghy?


No, with Victorian four panel doors.


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## starlingwood

Did this get pulled last year because of someone with an offensive tattoo?


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## delboy47

Not that good was it. A lot of talk.


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## Woody2Shoes

Jacob said:


> I suppose it was fairly harmless nonsense.
> Same format as Bake Off and Sewing Bee.
> Come to think I found "The Great British Sewing Bee" quite watchable. Maybe I should have taken up dress making instead of woodwork. Too late now!


Yes, we're great bake-off watchers chez W2S this new prog has been christened "chop-off" for brevity....


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## Woody2Shoes

okeydokey said:


> Any idea what wood they were using to make the printing blocks?


Judging by the bark, silver birch...


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## ajcr27

If these are Britains best Woodworkers it doesn't bode well for the future of woodworking in this country


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## TheUnicorn

starlingwood said:


> Did this get pulled last year because of someone with an offensive tattoo?


no that was "the chop" (I think) on sky, one contestant had '88' prominently tattooed, which is a fairly well established white power thing. I would have thought they could have edited him out and at least shown the show in some form, albeit much shorter, but perhaps he won?


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## MARK.B.

Not impressed so faron a plus side they could all carve to varying degrees and there were enough tools on display to bankrupt a small country and satisfy both hand and power fans .There were couple that will be worth keeping an eye on in future episodes.
The one that lost should have,no imagination at all and even less ability to carry it outthough to be fair it would have made a lovely raised bed down the allotment .Even my old eyes can tell the difference between sander and planer(that poor planer suffered some serious abuse )both judges seem to have missed that one.


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## JSW

I thought this was seriously impressive, anyone who can knock out a laminated curved roof on a rock solid double bed in two days gets my vote. The guys 20 years old and a self-taught 'Builder'? Hell's teeth yes. In fact, I'll put a 20 spot on him to win the series. 

Ok, by his own admission his carving was "terrible" But the kid shows promise!


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## Stigmorgan

JSW said:


> I thought this was seriously impressive, anyone who can knock out a laminated curved roof on a rock solid double bed in two days gets my vote. The guys 20 years old and a self-taught 'Builder'? Hell's teeth yes. In fact, I'll put a 20 spot on him to win the series.
> 
> Ok, by his own admission his carving was "terrible" But the kid shows promise!
> 
> View attachment 120151


Totally agree, he and Radha are definately my favourites at the moment.


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## baldkev

is that a green jumpsuit?


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## MikeK

baldkev said:


> is that a green jumpsuit?



No...it was a snazzy two-piece with matching trainers.


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## Jameshow

Who is he? And what are his wood working credentials? 

Not exactly Paul sellars, Chris tribe or Peter sefton... Let alone the many many bespoke craftsmen up and down the country.... 

Cheers James


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## JSW

Jameshow said:


> Who is he? And what are his wood working credentials?



Just found this on C4's press release



C4 said:


> 21 October 2021
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Billy*
> Occupation: Builder & novice carpenter
> Location: Lancashire
> Billy completed a campervan conversion when he was 15, won a carpentry award at 16 and rebuilt a narrow boat by himself at 17. He has completed a two-year carpentry course as well as learning skills from YouTube, trial and error and Hayne’s manuals. He is currently working on a barn conversion and says he’s a quick worker and isn’t afraid to take risks.



ETA: I know I'm going a little 'all-in' on this lad, but is there ANYone here who could have made that bed in two days, at 20 years old? 

I somehow doubt it. I certainly couldn't have.


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## ian33a

Surprisingly better programme than I was expecting. My wife and I quite enjoyed it. 

For most watchers, were it just about wood working joints and mallets, it would be a single watch and that would be it. Add in a human element and a few numpties and the show has promise. Same format as so many others and it makes a change for the format to be directed toward me rather than something than my wife naturally enjoys.

Tim really dodged a bullet on that first show. I can't see him lasting long, unless he becomes Britain's most improved woodworker.

Plenty of tool porn to go around. I think my wife got fed up with my "I have one of those" statements


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## Jameshow

ian33a said:


> Surprisingly better programme than I was expecting. My wife and I quite enjoyed it.
> 
> For most watchers, were it just about wood working joints and mallets, it would be a single watch and that would be it. Add in a human element and a few numpties and the show has promise. Same format as so many others and it makes a change for the format to be directed toward me rather than something than my wife naturally enjoys.
> 
> Tim really dodged a bullet on that first show. I can't see him lasting long, unless he becomes Britain's most improved woodworker.
> 
> Plenty of tool porn to go around. I think my wife got fed up with my "I have one of those" statements


I must admit I did see a bit of myself in Tim lol.

Cheers James


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## Chunkytfg

ian33a said:


> Surprisingly better programme than I was expecting. My wife and I quite enjoyed it.
> 
> For most watchers, were it just about wood working joints and mallets, it would be a single watch and that would be it. Add in a human element and a few numpties and the show has promise. Same format as so many others and it makes a change for the format to be directed toward me rather than something than my wife naturally enjoys.
> 
> Tim really dodged a bullet on that first show. I can't see him lasting long, unless he becomes Britain's most improved woodworker.
> 
> Plenty of tool porn to go around. I think my wife got fed up with my "I have one of those" statements



I've just finished watching it on catch up and got to agree with all of it.

The boat concept could have been good but it was like Tim had never heard of cutting at an angle so mating faces fit flat! 

An odd mix of tools used. Festool router and Mitre saws but Makita everything else seems a bit random.

I'm at a loss why the sleepers were not just stuck though a bench top thickneser and the woman who got booted would have had 1.5 days to then actually do something other than stack them badly together!

The mix of contestants was typical C4 exactly as expected. A couple of actually good people and then a mix of characters who add to the watchability of those viewers who dont have an interest in woodworking.


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## Kinz

For me, the slavish adherence to the GBBO format is too much! 2 days is too short to do anything of quality, which leaves the purpose to be crises, stress & failure (tv jeopardy). My concern is when you add power tools/machinery to the mix. 
I’ll watch another one, as woodwork on mainstream tv is a rarity but expect to be frustrated, annoyed, insulted etc


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## MichaelAD

My OH and I watch all of these type shows...it passes as 'light entertainment' for us. Normally we get a 'Series link' to programmes we enjoy and watch them at our leisure. So, if it's baking, ceramics, woodwork, sewing, metalwork etc etc we dip in and out at a time that suits us.

One thing that does cause us concern is that neither our children nor grandchildren have any interest at all in any of these programmes. We wonder where the future 'hands on' artisans are going to come from? 

I'm an ex aircraft engineer who has a DIY interest in woodwork and woodturning (my garage workshop and my shed are probably equipped a little better than a weekend DIYer though). My OH is an ex teacher who is an artist in all of the paint mediums, she bakes, cooks, sews, knits, woodturns and loves her garden.
I guess we are throwback dinosaurs who were brought up in an age of 'make do and mend' when utilising anything and everything to the max was the norm.

Times, people and generations change. We like to think that we too have changed with the times by keeping up with technology as best we can, but while technology is advancing at an exponential rate all of the 'basic' hands on skills seem to be getting bypassed.

My hope is that TV will continue to to produce programmes that show woodworkers, turners, metalworkers etc etc so that maybe, just maybe, it may inspire others to 'have a go' at something that will give them a skill that they can develop and enjoy for the rest of their lives.
In the meanwhile we have fun watching, laughing and wincing (and sometimes admiring) what we see.


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## ian33a

MichaelAD said:


> My OH and I watch all of these type shows...it passes as 'light entertainment' for us. Normally we get a 'Series link' to programmes we enjoy and watch them at our leisure. So, if it's baking, ceramics, woodwork, sewing, metalwork etc etc we dip in and out at a time that suits us.
> 
> One thing that does cause us concern is that neither our children nor grandchildren have any interest at all in any of these programmes. We wonder where the future 'hands on' artisans are going to come from?
> 
> I'm an ex aircraft engineer who has a DIY interest in woodwork and woodturning (my garage workshop and my shed are probably equipped a little better than a weekend DIYer though). My OH is an ex teacher who is an artist in all of the paint mediums, she bakes, cooks, sews, knits, woodturns and loves her garden.
> I guess we are throwback dinosaurs who were brought up in an age of 'make do and mend' when utilising anything and everything to the max was the norm.
> 
> Times, people and generations change. We like to think that we too have changed with the times by keeping up with technology as best we can, but while technology is advancing at an exponential rate all of the 'basic' hands on skills seem to be getting bypassed.
> 
> My hope is that TV will continue to to produce programmes that show woodworkers, turners, metalworkers etc etc so that maybe, just maybe, it may inspire others to 'have a go' at something that will give them a skill that they can develop and enjoy for the rest of their lives.
> In the meanwhile we have fun watching, laughing and wincing (and sometimes admiring) what we see.



As an ex electronics engineer who is willing to have a go at most practical things, so many youngsters these days don't have jobs with any manual/practical element attached. Apprenticeships were made demeaning by governments who wanted to shovel youngsters into university education (and so keep them off the unemployment statistics) and many engineers use computers to build and model stuff rather than physically experimenting with real hardware (as I did when I was younger).

Add in the throw away society which we have where people would rather buy something on Amazon and have it tomorrow (or today) than actually make it and feel the sense of satisfaction of having done so.

I hope that the reawakening of the benefits of apprenticeships, perhaps a hike in prices generally and shows such as this will encourage people toward craft skills again. Trouble is, with the everything costing more, buying decent tools and raw materials isn't as easy or as cheap as it once was.


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## Phil Pascoe

Trouble is, with the everything costing more, buying decent tools and raw materials isn't as easy or as cheap as it once was ...

I thought that the other day looking at my twenty+ different pairs of pliers.

Another shame, to my mind, is that evening classes are now so expensive - one I did 15 years ago was 10 weeks for £30 (it was worthwhile for the use of the facilities alone) it's now £160. It discourages people from finding new interests and skills.


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## Orraloon

Well that was almost an hour of my life I will never get back. 
Regards
John


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## Droogs

britain's best woodworker? my hairy pimpled chocolate sphincter. 1 of them didn't even grow up or live in the UK unless the Queen has taken up old Henry's claim to France.


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## woodieallen

Kinz said:


> ..... My concern is when you add power tools/machinery to the mix.
> ...


Absolutely. Really looking forward to when they fire up the spindle moulder on the Hammer.


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## Spectric

If nothing else it shows that you may not be as bad as you first thought, or you may pick up some new techniques like kicking the joint together rather than clamps or a mallet. What about that bed using large sleeper sized timber, never mind getting it upstairs with modern housing you need to reinforce the floor otherwise it could end up in the living room and what a waste of timber.


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## Phil Pascoe

Droogs said:


> britain's best woodworker? my hairy pimpled chocolate sphincter. 1 of them didn't even grow up or live in the UK unless the Queen has taken up old Henry's claim to France.


They didn't actually say "Best British Woodworker".


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## Droogs

Phil Pascoe said:


> They didn't actually say "Best British Woodworker".


She lives in Paris FFS so not even based here.

My dog has chewed out better joints than most of this lot


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## Gareth62

MARK.B. said:


> Not impressed so faron a plus side they could all carve to varying degrees and there were enough tools on display to bankrupt a small country and satisfy both hand and power fans .There were couple that will be worth keeping an eye on in future episodes.
> The one that lost should have,no imagination at all and even less ability to carry it outthough to be fair it would have made a lovely raised bed down the allotment .Even my old eyes can tell the difference between sander and planer(that poor planer suffered some serious abuse )both judges seem to have missed that one.



With regards to the sleeper bed.

What I don’t understand is:

A: all the wood was cut and prepped for them with finished sizes

B: with all that kit there, where was the thicknesser and why not use it.


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## Robbo3

At least the filming was all in focus.
Now all we have to do is get the camera to show what is being done rather than the speaker's face.


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## Orraloon

I guess following the reality tv format of getting people on screen for the express purpose of making them look like complete pratts then the show is an outstanding success. They all talked the talk at the design stage but at the building they utterly failed to walk the walk. Most did not even know what they could never achieve. May be entertainment to some but its not woodwork.
Regards
John


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## Peter Sefton

It was meant to be called "good with wood" and was set up for aspiring woodworkers, some TV exec changed the name after filming, I think their name should be changed to "clueless twit" Hopefully it will get people into woodworking and at least let the general public see what goes into what we do.

Cheers

Peter


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## WoodchipWilbur

I think that my sadness was the general lack of connection between:

Design ("I'm going to design something stunning")
Practicality ("I'm going to make something that could actually be used")
Construction ("I'm going to design something that I'm going to be able to make")

Before ever the cameras start to roll, they have the time and opportunity to consider the facilities available to them. A number of these projects failed at that stage.


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## Phil Pascoe

At school we weren't allowed to make anything we couldn't first draw proper, adequate plans for. That always seemed to me to be sensible.


----------



## Lonsdale73

On first watch, for me it was too much like GBBO with too many GBBO-type contestants. I have a deep-rooted scepticism of overly exuberant or exciteable people, or glaikit eejits as they're known where I'm from, so that immediately turned me off with regards to over half the contestants and most of them had me muttering a variant of Droogs' "FFS"! The only likeable one among them is Joe.

On second watch, I was maybe a bit harsh first time round or maybe just in a better mood this morning. Chantall deserved to go, there wasn't even a hint of joinery in the sleepers laid out for her by the technicians and frankly Tim should have joined her. Best part was the carving of printing plates although I disagreed with the judges' choice for the immunity award, hinted of "Must keep the transgender at any cost!" Again, similar to GBBO where there are weeks when the wrong person is ejected. Think often as not it comes down to whether or not the judge likes an individual or not. So Jade's time is probably limited as neither judge seemed to care much for her (incidentally, at the start of the program, it does say that entrants were drawn "from across the UK" and later that she was "born in France" which is not the same as being French, raised in France or still living there now. And she speaks far better English than most certified English, possibly the best outside of Edinburgh!)

I suspect I'll continue watching until it looks like a sinal contested by Tim and 'Misti' (FFS)


----------



## recipio

Firstly, that workshop was to die for. I can hardly swing a cat in mine. Secondly I kept thinking ' fail to prepare, prepare to fail'. It seems like £1000's of wood were bought without any finished plans. The contestants were always going to be struggling given their inexperience but the designs really let them down. It was more Art College than Woodworking School ?


----------



## Dynamite

I’m recording and going to give it a go with an open mind but the reviews don’t sound good!

Kind Regards..........Rob


----------



## Orraloon

Thought I was being kind with my review.


----------



## Droogs

I watched this again while in the workshop yesterday and caught something I missed the first time that nearly had me falling about laughing. I know for almost definite that none of them are members here as 1 of them is heard to say "I'm glad they are all sharp as I don't know how to sharpen them" and noone else said anything. So they have never read a thread here as they all descend eventually to Jacob arguing with everyone else about sharpening methods


----------



## Stigmorgan

Orraloon said:


> Well that was almost an hour of my life I will never get back.
> Regards
> John


To be fair, every hour is an hour you will never get back


----------



## thetyreman

I was ranting thinking why aren't they using a tusk tenon, the guy on there who made the boat bed should have been eliminated, it was painful to see premium B/BB birch plywood wasted like that knowing what it costs, I think 2 days to build a bed is nowhere near enough time.


----------



## BearTricks

I watched it. I felt like the level of the woodworkers was such that it would inspire the average Joe to get stuck in, rather than getting the big name YouTubers and Instagram names on so I didn't really have an issue with that. 

They most likely also needed people with a decent grasp of skills across the board instead of a world class woodturner who has no idea how to use a bench plane. I imagine there'll be a lot of traditional joinery, a few MDF/composites challenges, and maybe one turning/scroll saw/carving challenge.

My main issue is that the format seems to be one big multi-day challenge punctuated by one that takes an hour or so. Fine, but if most of them stink at the big challenge or if its not that interesting then the entire episode is a write off. At least on bake off if you don't like croissants then they'll be on to making a pie in 10 minutes.


----------



## Lonsdale73

BearTricks said:


> inspire the average Joe to get stuck in



And he did!


----------



## Gareth62

Next weeks looks like the big project is all in miniature, with it being dolls house


----------



## Spectric

WoodchipWilbur said:


> Design ("I'm going to design something stunning")
> Practicality ("I'm going to make something that could actually be used")
> Construction ("I'm going to design something that I'm going to be able to make")


This philosophy is fundamental in all aspects of engineering and even more important when you have a time constraint in which to deliver so going on what they have attempted so far many seem to have good visualisation apart from the sleeper bed but are not thinking about how or if they can deliver. That guy who came up with the "boat" concept was definately an outright winner if the remit was joints that people would laugh about, I think if that is what you are willing to deliver on national Tv then give up.


----------



## Spectric

Lets take a fairer look, ok so the beds should not have been an issue as it is general woodworking but carving, working in minature and turning which will pop up are all more niche which unless it is your thing who knows what will be produced.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Yes. It's a very big umbrella. I've met brilliant turners who haven't a clue about joinery.


----------



## MARK.B.

Gareth62 said:


> Next weeks looks like big project is all in miniature with it being dolls house


Will be interesting to see how much wood will be consumed in the making if these miniature pieces


----------



## paulrbarnard

MARK.B. said:


> Will be interesting to see how much wood will be consumed in the making if these miniature pieces


Probably enough left overs from the beds…


----------



## xraymtb

Looking forward to seeing Tim and his decking screws take on a dolls house!

I watched it tonight - didn’t find it terrible but I do question where they found the participants. One openly admitted to having never made anything before - surely some level of ability would be considered a minimum requirement?That said their finished bed was one of the better ones!


----------



## Phil Pascoe

xraymtb said:


> I watched it tonight - didn’t find it terrible but I do question where they found the participants. One openly admitted to having never made anything before - surely some level of ability would be considered a minimum requirement?



Maybe they had advice from the people who choose government ministers?


----------



## Adam W.

Maybe they didn't want a huge series long drama with an ongoing [email protected]*€ning debate.


----------



## Keith 66

I caught 5 minutes of it then turned it off. It was an insult to anyone who aspires to be a craftsman. The level was about that of a year 9 D&T class. The great race to the bottom continues!


----------



## Phil Pascoe

It's another branch of reality TV - you're supposed to watch the people, not what they're doing.


----------



## CornishWoodworker

Well, I watched this episode.
Surly expert judges.
A couple of contestants showing promise.
But amount of screws, all on show, which some used to fix components was unbelievable. 
The amount of packing pieces on the boat bed !
And as for the 12 sleeper bed, well, the idea was novel.
Next week , I'll start to record it and then clean my workshop. I'll then fast forward to view it and stop at anything that look entertaining.

Not adverse to these type shows but think their choice of amatuer contestants could have been better sourced.


----------



## Lonsdale73

xraymtb said:


> Looking forward to seeing Tim and his decking screws take on a dolls house!
> 
> I watched it tonight - didn’t find it terrible but I do question where they found the participants. One openly admitted to having never made anything before - surely some level of ability would be considered a minimum requirement?That said their finished bed was one of the better ones!



Same person who won the technical challenge and produced the gothic bed with upholstered headboard. Maybe 'Misti' hadn't made anything but perhaps the person 'Misti' morphed from had.


----------



## Garden Shed Projects

I can’t help but think it would have been better if they chose something more realistic like a chair, cupboard or table to give the contestants an opportunity to shine. Work through timber selection design build then finish it properly.
A “dream bed” is too big and complicated for a first episode and sounds more like a final.
Who’s making stuff that size in their workshops at home?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I turned up at school one Saturday (yes, we went to school on Saturday mornings) to be given a small pile of wood (sawn, not planed) and be told that the master wanted a coffee table ............. by lunchtime. I was about sixteen. He very generously said it didn't need to be lacquered. I did it. I found out years later that he had promised one for a church bazaar on the Sunday and had forgotten all about it.


----------



## Orraloon

A bed is not that hard to make. Well a practical kind of bed that you sleep in that is. It's just a platform to keep the mattress off the floor. Over the years I have done bunk beds, a double and a queen size bed. When it comes to "dream beds" or something that sails into the sunset then fantasy tends to blend with reality and well we saw the results.
I remember doing a version of that bed made of large sleepers. Planted up with veg it was a really great addition to the back garden.
Regards
John


----------



## thetyreman

and also I was baffled as to why they didn't use those bed bolts that you can get everywhere? seeing as they only had 2 days it would have made it 10x easier.


----------



## Orraloon

For anything larger than a single, bed bolts or other knockdown hardware is a must. They have to come apart to be moved.
Regards
John


----------



## TheTiddles

It’s so typical of TV programmes now, I watched one on rockets and they didn’t even use a single thermodynamic equation to explain the design…

…or maybe the programme was not orientated to that sort of viewer.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

You don't really need a thermodynamic equation to explain a firework.


----------



## Orraloon

Never mind equations one of them couldn't even drive a nail.
Regards
John


----------



## hlvd

ian33a said:


> As an ex electronics engineer who is willing to have a go at most practical things, so many youngsters these days don't have jobs with any manual/practical element attached. Apprenticeships were made demeaning by governments who wanted to shovel youngsters into university education (and so keep them off the unemployment statistics) and many engineers use computers to build and model stuff rather than physically experimenting with real hardware (as I did when I was younger).
> 
> Add in the throw away society which we have where people would rather buy something on Amazon and have it tomorrow (or today) than actually make it and feel the sense of satisfaction of having done so.
> 
> I hope that the reawakening of the benefits of apprenticeships, perhaps a hike in prices generally and shows such as this will encourage people toward craft skills again. Trouble is, with the everything costing more, buying decent tools and raw materials isn't as easy or as cheap as it once was.


High end tools


Gareth62 said:


> With regards to the sleeper bed.
> 
> What I don’t understand is:
> 
> A: all the wood was cut and prepped for them with finished sizes
> 
> B: with all that kit there, where was the thicknesser and why not use it.


From what I saw I doubt any of the contestants would know how to use one.


----------



## Chris152

It's clear the programme's title is silly. Rename it and you have people with a variety of skills trying to make things from wood and getting a crit. I can't see the point in mocking those people's efforts.


----------



## Saint Simon

I know that these programmes are generally more about the contestants than the techniques but on Bake Off, Sewing Bee etc they start with people with some knowledge. Watching the jewellery one I felt I was in with a chance of learning something.
But the skill level here seems, with a couple of possible exceptions, below beginner. I'm sure they could have come up with interesting people with some skills. Feels like a sadly missed opportunity.


----------



## Owd Jockey

The thing I liked particularly about "The Great Pottery Down" is when head Judge Keith, turns up in overalls and sits down at the wheel and then demonstrates how to turn a piece which the contestants must emulate. Sometimes they would bring in an outside expert to demonstrate how a piece is crafted, then for the contestants follow. For me, I can then respect that person as a judge, because I can see he/she knows what they are talking about. Hopefully, in future episodes they will have such a thing as demonstrating wood joints, with the contestants emulating, although I will probably not be there to watch it, as my patience will have long since run out on this competition to decide on this "Best in Class 2021", certainly not in Britain.


----------



## Essex Barn Workshop

In much the same way as my daughter watches bake off to hopefully learn some techniques, whereas I watch it for the entertainment value, I tuned in hoping to see some real craftspeople at work, and hopefully to learn from them.
That isn't, in the majority of the contestants, the case or likely (not over emphasising MY skill level, I have much to learn). I will continue to watch the show for its entertainment value.


----------



## Jameshow

Saint Simon said:


> I know that these programmes are generally more about the contestants than the techniques but on Bake Off, Sewing Bee etc they start with people with some knowledge. Watching the jewellery one I felt I was in with a chance of learning something.
> But the skill level here seems, with a couple of possible exceptions, below beginner. I'm sure they could have come up with interesting people with some skills. Feels like a sadly missed opportunity.


Difference is most of us have a mediocre of woodworking skills so we see all the mistakes, light as day.... Just like my Mrs and daughter do on bake off...... How hard is filo pastry?!! 

Cheers James


----------



## TheTiddles

Phil Pascoe said:


> You don't really need a thermodynamic equation to explain a firework.


Why are rocket nozzles the shape they are? Explain please


----------



## Woody2Shoes

TheTiddles said:


> Why are rocket nozzles the shape they are? Explain please











Rocket engine nozzle - Wikipedia







en.m.wikipedia.org




HTH


----------



## Spectric

Phil Pascoe said:


> It's another branch of reality TV - you're supposed to watch the people, not what they're doing.


Will it ever progress or should I say sink to gutter level like these dating programs and become more than just making the bed but dare I say even using it!


----------



## Garden Shed Projects

Spectric said:


> Will it ever progress or should I say sink to gutter level like these dating programs and become more than just making the bed but dare I say even using it!


the show’s original title of Good with Wood would be quite fitting.


----------



## paulrbarnard

I caught a promo interview on Radio 2 today. One of the skill challenges is going to be an impossible dovetail.


----------



## HOJ

TV like this creates a false expectation as to how long it actually takes to make something, let alone properly. 
I'm waiting for the day when someone comes in my shop and asks for a bed, or even anything, "seen a program on the telly, it only took 2 days to make"

Past experience, quite a few years ago, I was asked to make a large Oak glazed frame for a barn conversion, new client, "6 bits of wood and some nails, that shouldn't take long!"

20+ years on, I still do work for him... he's been educated now.


----------



## TheTiddles

Woody2Shoes said:


> Rocket engine nozzle - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HTH


Nailed the first part, but still used a thermodynamic equation, it’s almost like sometimes details are needed and sometimes they aren’t.


----------



## TheTiddles

HOJ said:


> TV like this creates a false expectation as to how long it actually takes to make something, let alone properly.
> I'm waiting for the day when someone comes in my shop and asks for a bed, or even anything, "seen a program on the telly, it only took 2 days to make"
> 
> Past experience, quite a few years ago, I was asked to make a large Oak glazed frame for a barn conversion, new client, "6 bits of wood and some nails, that shouldn't take long!"
> 
> 20+ years on, I still do work for him... he's been educated now.


But how exciting would the programme be if they cut down a tree and then filmed it drying for a year whilst they waited to see what character boards survived to influence the design.

There’s always going to be people who don’t understand things, sadly some actually aren’t even capable of understanding, some use the internet, that’s scary.


----------



## Bristol_Rob

Chris152 said:


> It's clear the programme's title is silly. Rename it and you have people with a variety of skills trying to make things from wood and getting a crit. I can't see the point in mocking those people's efforts.



I caught up on this programme last night.

I totally agree, if they changed the name I think they'd have a great show.

Listening to all these negative comments is a little sad imo .
How about some support and hope for better in the coming series.

Remember, top gear was dung in the first few series.

Hell, post your first few projects and let's all have a laugh (I'll go first)

Woodworking is a learned skill. I like that these contestants bring something other than pure woodworking skills to the shed.
When was the last time you put fabric into your last project 

I have hope and optimism for the show.


----------



## Gary_S

I saw the first episode. I liked it. There was a fair bit of good design there. Some interesting ideas that were too elaborate for practical builds over 2 days but interesting concepts nonetheless. The skills challenge was ok but maybe they should all have to flatten and dimension a small board by hand. That would be interesting viewing.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

If you looked into the CVs of the contestants on the jewellery series, most of them were very experienced. If any of the Woodworker contestants were very experienced they certainly hid it well.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Bristol_Rob said:


> I have hope and optimism for the show.




More than I have.


----------



## Argus

Well, it's on again tonight.

If they introduce an element of sharpening we'll all be in heaven as far as this thread is concerned.

Happy watching!


----------



## Stigmorgan

TheTiddles said:


> Why are rocket nozzles the shape they are? Explain please


How else would we know which way to point it?


----------



## Chunkytfg

Garden Shed Projects said:


> I can’t help but think it would have been better if they chose something more realistic like a chair, cupboard or table to give the contestants an opportunity to shine. Work through timber selection design build then finish it properly.
> A “dream bed” is too big and complicated for a first episode and sounds more like a final.
> *Who’s making stuff that size in their workshops at home?*




Thats would be me! First ever time playing with Hardwoods and thought i'd start small!!

Took way longer than 2 days though!!


----------



## paulrbarnard

Chunkytfg said:


> Thats would be me! First ever time playing with Hardwoods and thought i'd start small!!
> 
> Took way longer than 2 days though!!


Would have worked better if you put on the floor not a wall. But hey it was your first project ;-)


----------



## hlvd

These people are pretty clueless, those joints are horrendous.
Mr Bradshaw my college lecturer would be pulling his hair out seeing them banging away with no sacrificial piece of wood as they assemble their projects.


----------



## okeydokey

Quite like some of the aprons some are wearing


----------



## scooby

This reminds of Game of Thrones season 4...I keep watching but I don't know why.


----------



## Spectric

Bristol_Rob said:


> How about some support and hope for better in the coming series.


Having seen those dovetails I think hope is rather lacking, ok they were told what to do and they may not be the "traditional" type but perhaps may have done better with power tools, where is the Woodrat when you need one!


----------



## scooby

The last time I made an impossible dovetail, I'm pretty sure (iirc) I cut the tails at 45. As opposed to cutting square and planing the faces at 45, the end result is probably the same. Some of those made mine look damn good
The daft thing on this challenge was there are numerous large, heavy benches in the workshop..but lets not use them, instead we'll go outside and use these small, lighter benches.


----------



## scooby

Chunkytfg said:


> Thats would be me! First ever time playing with Hardwoods and thought i'd start small!!
> 
> Took way longer than 2 days though!!



Nice!


----------



## robgul

. . . at least they sent right person home this week. For my money they ought to send the judges home too, and get a couple of new ones . . . and while they're at it change the presenter with the pathetic, unfunny attempts at humour.


----------



## yetloh

Watched the first and decided that was enough. I hate these against the clock things where insufficient time is available to do a proper job even if for those who do have the skills. I would much rather watch someone design and make something good in a sensible time frame but I guess that wouldn't make "good tv".

Jim


----------



## Phil Pascoe

okeydokey said:


> Quite like some of the aprons some are wearing


You'd like Jay Blades', then? He has a real workman's apron.


----------



## Mike.R

And Alex Webster, the furniture restorer on the telly, wears a magnificent leather apron with neck shackles.

Chiropractors be rubbing their hands together.


----------



## Cooper

Second show much better than the first. The scale and imagination of the designs much better than the beds. I would have liked to have seen the contestants own drawings. Also what a shame that they didn't show how skillful marking out and cutting the compound angles was, they only said how difficult it would be. And a better appreciation of the details of the finished designs, rather than so much time given to silly comments from the presenter. 
It would have been good to see the judges demonstrate the dovetails, and I wonder how good the instructions they had to follow were.
Do you think the producers read our comments?


----------



## paulrbarnard

I think Joe was exceptionally luck to dodge the bullet this week. He really is a bit of a bodger and basher. And I don’t use bodger in the traditional sense. His attitude seems to be to make a bad job of it then hit it with a mallet. 
Isn’t he supposed to be one of the experienced YouTube woodworkers?


----------



## hlvd

scooby said:


> This reminds of Game of Thrones season 4...I keep watching but I don't know why.





paulrbarnard said:


> I think Joe was exceptionally luck to dodge the bullet this week. He really is a bit of a bodger and basher. And I don’t use bodger in the traditional sense. His attitude seems to be to make a bad job of it then hit it with a mallet.
> Isn’t he supposed to be one of the experienced YouTube woodworkers?


I was expecting a lot more considering he's got a YouTube channel, that was school woodwork class ability on that joint, if not worse.


----------



## Jameshow

hlvd said:


> I was expecting a lot more considering he's got a YouTube channel, that was school woodwork class ability on that joint, if not worse.


He is average Joe.... 

Was it him who said I've never done a dovetail joint before? My 7 year old daughter laughed at that one! She made a box last summer! 

Cheers James


----------



## AJB Temple

The lighthouse lady showed good skills with the compound angles. Jade's arches were an innovative design and she clearly has more to give. 

The hidden dovetail joint set them up for failure. And used the wrong benches. 

The male contestants are being outshone by the women. Mel as a presenter is superfluous and neither of the judges is at all credible. However, it was overall a great deal better this week.


----------



## Ian down london way

Spectric said:


> ….."traditional" type but perhaps may have done better with power tools, where is the Woodrat when you need one!


Note to self. Must sell my wood rat (or give it away) - it’s been unused on the wall for 20 years


----------



## cisamcgu

robgul said:


> . . . at least they sent right person home this week. For my money they ought to send the judges home too, and get a couple of new ones . . . and while they're at it change the presenter with the pathetic, unfunny attempts at humour.



Not sure it is Mel's fault. The judges are such humourless souls that any attempt at humour is sucked into their morass of depression.


----------



## harry the b

Bring back the original handmade..no talking just pure craft all the way.


----------



## Lonsdale73

Isn't that the thing about Average Joe, though? That he doesn't claim to be an expert, just an enthusiast who enjoys pottering about with wood. I guess there's a world of difference between doing a little bit as and when in your own workshop compared to working flat out over two days, competing not just against the clock but the others in there. Certainly more pressure than he'll be used to.

Thought Charlie was a deserving winner, especially for her quip in response to Mel's offer to help: "Not after last week, _mate_!"

Another fitting quote came from Tim: "I have no idea."


----------



## MuddyFunster

I watched my first episode last night, being as my wife "encourages" me to watch bake off, I thought it would be nice for her to watch this alternative


----------



## Phil Pascoe

AJB Temple said:


> Mel as a presenter is superfluous ...


Could have been worse - it could have been Katherine Ryan.


----------



## recipio

I don't think I saw one of them use a square to mark up. BTW is it me or are there no windows in that workshop ?


----------



## MichaelAD

[email protected]@dy amateurs...all of us pros know that you never force a joint...you just use a bigger hammer


----------



## Richard_C

Just watched the first episode on catch up, no mention of the cost of a seemingly unlimited amount of hardwood. Easy to do adventurous designs (well, clearly not easy for some of them) if you don't have to think about the £££. I missed a bit at the beginning, did they have free choice of what they could use or were they given a list each? 

Title all wrong - I doubt anyone is even close to "Britain's Best" - maybe "Least hopeless of a random bunch" would be more accurate. Some are good, some are worse than me and I'm a fixer rather than a fine craftsman. But even I flinch at randomly installed decking screws to build a bed.

Much like the bake off Kitchen Aid mixers, Festool have some prominent product placement.

I wonder - bake off does good because it encourages people at home to have a go. Baking badly does little harm, maybe the odd burn. But what if people get inspired and go out to buy power tools and sharp things thinking it all looks easy ..... it's going to be a tough enough winter for A&E as it is, without TV inspired beginner woodworkers bringing in bits of their anatomy in sandwich bags.


----------



## akirk

I wouldn't worry about it inspiring hoardes of people to take up playing with sharp blades - Bake Off inspires because people already cook and it inspires them to think that someone normal can do well - but unless you already play with wood, I suspect that most viewers will continue to buy their beds from DreamWorld (where they may well be worse quality than the ones we see on the show!). My wife (hand surgeon) hasn't seen a sudden rise in accidents coming her way as a result of the show - and due to my interest in woodworking she does question her patients as to exactly how they injure themselves, and then tells me that it is clearly dangerous to use a sharpened pencil in the workshop  - if you were to summarise the accidents she sees I wouldn't say that being an amateur / inexperienced is a common thread - instead it is taking short-cuts / losing attention / being an utter silly person! - and all those things seem to be more common amongst the experienced than those new to it


----------



## Wildman

Ian down london way said:


> Note to self. Must sell my wood rat (or give it away) - it’s been unused on the wall for 20 years


you could give it to me I'd love one, ha ha but way beyond my price range.


----------



## Sandyn

I watched the first episode, but won't be watching any more. Same old formula. Just another entertainment program which happens to be woodwork based this time. There's been baking, sewing, painting, gardening and pottery programs. What next music? bricklaying? Has there been a metalwork one? If everyone was an expert, there would be no drama, they need some to be less talented than others. I think I enjoy the programs about subjects where I have little ability so I am less critical of the techniques used and just enjoy it as entertainment.


----------



## scooby

Richard_C said:


> Much like the bake off Kitchen Aid mixers, Festool have some prominent product placement.



I noticed on the Axminster site, they're rather proud of the fact they supplied most of the tools/machines.


----------



## Tuna808

Ok to produce a program for entertainment but don’t call it Britains best……it’s an insult to a multitude of craftsmen and craft woman who could showcase the craft at its best……90 minutes to make a dovetail joint and they were all rubbish!


----------



## Stigmorgan

Sandyn said:


> I watched the first episode, but won't be watching any more. Same old formula. Just another entertainment program which happens to be woodwork based this time. There's been baking, sewing, painting, gardening and pottery programs. What next music? bricklaying? Has there been a metalwork one? If everyone was an expert, there would be no drama, they need some to be less talented than others. I think I enjoy the programs about subjects where I have little ability so I am less critical of the techniques used and just enjoy it as entertainment.


Forged in Fire


----------



## thetyreman

must admit it's made me want to try the impossible dovetail as a challenge to myself, I'm going to do it for a laugh and see if I can do it better with the same time limitations.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I did it years ago. Better. The joint marked across the square, not the piece planed square afterwards.


----------



## Wildman

I liked the idea of the program but as is evident the name if wrong, should be britains inept woodworkers, it is a shame the skill level is so basic I have seen better in a school woodwork class. There are certainly some with good design skills but attention to detail is lacking. From the title and build up one expected experienced woodworkers and it is evident that is not the case. Enthusiastic yes, good designers maybe, but skilled woodworkers; not in evidence so far. Though some do try hard. I am surprised smash and bash you tuber is still there and suspect he will lose a lot of subscribers if they watch the show. I will watch the rest of the series for entertainments sake rather than education.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

You have a curious idea of entertainment.


----------



## Jameshow

Wildman said:


> I liked the idea of the program but as is evident the name if wrong, should be britains inept woodworkers, it is a shame the skill level is so basic I have seen better in a school woodwork class. There are certainly some with good design skills but attention to detail is lacking. From the title and build up one expected experienced woodworkers and it is evident that is not the case. Enthusiastic yes, good designers maybe, but skilled woodworkers; not in evidence so far. Though some do try hard. I am surprised smash and bash you tuber is still there and suspect he will lose a lot of subscribers if they watch the show. I will watch the rest of the series for entertainments sake rather than education.


I'm guessing woodworking a much more neglected skill compared to bake off? 

I think there are probably alot of average Joe's and then a good number of expert / pro level woodworkers, but not much in the middle. 

Experts aren't going to put thier reputation or time on the line for s TV show. 

Nor are there the commercial benefits post show like on bakeoff. New woodworking bestseller? Hardly? 

Shane but that's the way it is. 

Cheers James


----------



## MARK.B.

The Dolls house was meant to be a collectors piece, there were some good ideas and a couple that given a bit more time could have been good, but collectors pieces they were not.Again apart from a couple the majority was a waste of wood that thankfully was not on the scale of the first episode.
The attempt by rocket man was nothing short of pathetic and he deserved to get booted.
There is talent and skill among the players and i would hope there is better to come,I would however put good money on a bet that there will not be second series of this program in its existing format.


----------



## Adam W.

Is the "King of Wood" still presenting it ?


----------



## Sandyn

Stigmorgan said:


> Forged in Fire


Of course!! I had forgotten. I have watched a few episodes. Was good.


----------



## Gareth62

This weeks show was far better than last weeks just the poor quality of the impossible dove tail joint
I’ve never seen it done the way they did it.

But the dolls house was a better size.

still it give me something to make the wife sit though as she makes me watch bake off


----------



## Stigmorgan

Sandyn said:


> Of course!! I had forgotten. I have watched a few episodes. Was good.


Yeah I really like the show, you get to actually see the construction process and the test process is usually pretty impressive.


----------



## Nelly111s

One of the things I wasn’t happy about was the guy making the Indian themed house was using a roughing gouge on a bowl blank. Not the right tool and dangerous. I would have thought someone would have screened the final edit for stuff like this.


----------



## Jameshow

Nelly111s said:


> One of the things I wasn’t happy about was the guy making the Indian themed house was using a roughing gouge on a bowl blank. Not the right tool and dangerous. I would have thought someone would have screened the final edit for stuff like this.


Why is it dangerous? newbie turner here! 

Cheers James


----------



## Sideways

Roughing gouge is for spindle work where the grain is always the same direction. On a bowl blank where the grain is constanty changing between end grain cut and with the grain, a bowl gouge is the right choice. They are a stronger tool. A roughing gouge isn't intended for cross grain cuts.


----------



## Sachakins

Jameshow said:


> Why is it dangerous? newbie turner here!
> 
> Cheers James


Most roughing gouges have a tang to fit in handle and this is where the break when used on anything with grain changes.


----------



## SVB

Jameshow said:


> Why is it dangerous? newbie turner here!
> 
> Cheers James


Despite looking ‘meaty’, to give them their proper name, a *spindle* roughing gouge, are actually quite weak compared to a bowl gouge. You can see this where the tang enters the handle - it is much thinner in the case of a spindle roughing gouge compared to a bowl gouge especially in relation to the cutting edge available. 

This is particularly important on a bowl where you encounter end grain when turning the bowl side grain and can have much larger overhangs from the to rest as opposed to spindle work where you are only cutting side green and typically a very short overhang to cut side grain with a spindle roughing gouge.

dors this make sense -happy to explain more?
Simon


----------



## Nelly111s

Jameshow said:


> Why is it dangerous? newbie turner here!
> 
> Cheers James



As others have said - it’s not strong enough. The roughing gouge is made from a folded bit of steel, with a tang. A bowl gouge should be used on the edge of a face grain/bowl blank because the roughing gouge can dig in to the end grain and snap the tool (in extremis). The roughing gouge looks a strong tool, but isn’t.


----------



## Sachakins

Jameshow said:


> Why is it dangerous? newbie turner here!
> 
> Cheers James


Also have a look here


----------



## Adam W.

I like the way he nearly took his finger off without swearing.


----------



## Bristol_Rob

Sachakins said:


> Also have a look here




I was 100% certain he was about to say 'Now you need to do an autopsy of your trousers'

Laths scare me!


----------



## recipio

I decided to make a doll's house for Xmas a long time ago. Of course it was running late and I was out in the shed until 4 am on Xmas eve ! 
They are the most fiddly and time consuming things to make and I swore never again without a comprehensive set of plans.


----------



## Stigmorgan

Bristol_Rob said:


> I was 100% certain he was about to say 'Now you need to do an autopsy of your trousers'
> 
> Laths scare me!


There is an argument to say that the lathe is one of the safest powered tools there is. Al Furtado makes the argument quite well in one of his earlier YouTube videos.


----------



## Jameshow

Sideways said:


> Roughing gouge is for spindle work where the grain is always the same direction. On a bowl blank where the grain is constanty changing between end grain cut and with the grain, a bowl gouge is the right choice. They are a stronger tool. A roughing gouge isn't intended for cross grain cuts.


Thanks


----------



## Jameshow

Sachakins said:


> Most roughing gouges have a tang to fit in handle and this is where the break when used on anything with grain changes.


Anyone recommend a good single bowl gouge? 

Cheers James


----------



## Agowood

I can recommend Ashley Iles bowl gouges that you can buy direct with or without handles. I have three that have done over fifteen years each and they hold their edges very well.


----------



## Chris JH

I've watched the first 2 episodes. The first one was disappointing, the second saw a small step forwards so I'll probably keep going...I think it should really pick-up when the last few have to seriously compete.
I also think it promotes woodworking to generations that have not had experience of making tangible objects out of wood, never smelt the fragrance from sawing a piece of seasoned pine or felt the satisfaction of using a sharp hand plane. For that alone it's worth trying this programme format.


----------



## Hsmith192

I quite liked the 2nd episode. Wish there was a little more in terms of techniques explained- but at least there’s something woodworking on national tv!


----------



## xraymtb

2nd was a marked improvement from the 1st episode. I'm holding out hope that we get to see more skills and better details as they get rid of the weak links. The judges still come across as soul-less creatures devoid of the joys of life - although I might be the same if I had to listen to Mel's 'jokes' every 2 minutes.


----------



## AFFF

Watched both of the episodes on catch-up. I was looking forward to the similar skill levels that are shown on bake off. As in competitors who possess the basic skills in cookery who are then challenged to take it one step further. Sadly this has not happened with this program. As mentioned here before, two days to make a large double bed is not realistic. But anything longer would not make for good TV. In bake off the judges are professional cooks/bakers. One of them on this program is an architect! Nothing to do with practical woodwork. Almost none of the contestants possess any basic skills. The dovetail test said it all. Terrible program. Won't be watching anymore episodes


----------



## Phil Pascoe

... two days to make a large double bed is not realistic. But anything longer would not make for good TV. 

No, but they don't need to film every minute.


----------



## Awac

Stigmorgan said:


> Forged in Fire


“Your chisel……will cut!” Oh bring on FIF judges, that would liven it up!


----------



## Mike.R

Bringing the judges in from Strictly Come Dancing would improve things no end..... Darling.


----------



## loftyhermes

Phil Pascoe said:


> ... two days to make a large double bed is not realistic. But anything longer would not make for good TV.
> 
> No, but they don't need to film every minute.


To be fair that Mel did say at the beginning, "that to make a hand crafted bed would take several weeks, our contestants have two days."


----------



## MikeK

I watched the first episode, but won't bother with the rest. I wish the producers had kept the original title rather than "Britain's Best". I also think the show would have been better if it followed the format of "Forged in Fire", where contestants make small projects in the studio shop and then go to their home shop for a week to make a complex project. This could definitely separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of contestant skills and capabilities and might make a more enjoyable show, at least for me.


----------



## Woodywright

As others have said above I was quite excited at the title and expected to see Britain's best woodworkers. I wouldn't rate any of these competitors as being good, let alone highly skilled. The standard is pretty poor. The projects and challenges are unreasonable I think for the time the competitors have to make the item. Even a highly skilled craftsman would struggle to get a top quality item in that time frame. Shame really, the idea is good - it be great if the competitors were competent.


----------



## Jameshow

Anyone think the work quality increased a little? Esp average Joe chair? And the steam bent one... 

Some of the others weren't so bad but the two who went home deserved it! Rada sailed close to the wind too....

Thoughts?!


----------



## Adam W.

None.


----------



## thetyreman

Jameshow said:


> Anyone think the work quality increased a little? Esp average Joe chair? And the steam bent one...
> 
> Some of the others weren't so bad but the two who went home deserved it! Rada sailed close to the wind too....
> 
> Thoughts?!



agree, I did like average joe's chair, it looked like a chair and was comfortable, I wasn't a fan of the steamed bent one too much though or any of the others really, I could not believe how poor they were at spoon carving, surprised there was no spokeshave or gauge for it either, that would have been much much safer than a whittling knife.


----------



## Sideways

Very arbitrary of the judges to criticise the contestant who made a chair to fit herself for making that choice.
It may not have looked conventional or well proportioned, but one of the great advantages of hand made furniture is that you can finally get something that fits you. Tall and petite people alike have to suffer middling sized stuff made for the majority.

And taking a hot air gun to a gallon of resin had me chortling. Resin instructions will clearly warn about exothermic heating of bulk resin and the need to mix in a flat metal bowl to disperse heat and extend the open time for gluing up. He had a gallon for heaven's sake !


----------



## Chunkytfg

What was Rahda thinking putting heat under the Resin!!! 

He might have never used it before but even 10 mins of googling how to do it tells you heat is the enemy!!


----------



## billgiles

Whatever, I am a fan of this entertainment show, which is not a woodworking tutorial. Misti’s chair was spectacular, if a little unsteady.


----------



## Chunkytfg

billgiles said:


> Whatever, I am a fan of this entertainment show, which is not a woodworking tutorial. Misti’s chair was spectacular, if a little unsteady.




Agreed. Got to appreciate his design ability and surprising skill at turning it into reality with aparently any previous experience.

Joe's chair was lovely too. I do love a bit of bent lamination and his design without trying to over complicate it was spot on.


----------



## robgul

Another vote for Joe's chair - very clever, especially in the time. The one thing I would have done which I think would have improved appearance and usability would have been to create a radius corner cut out in the front leg area to give the appearance of separate, wide, "legs" and space for the user's heels/feet when getting out of the chair. 

Misti's chair was clever and well made, but not to my taste.

. . . and Mel's part in the programme is going from dire to even more dire - adds nothing at all. Judges seemed slightly more human this week.


----------



## Bristol_Rob

Agree, this episode was better.
Joe was a deserving winner  

I find the lady judge irritating as she is critical without adding any value.

As for someone wearing red trousers 

Next week they crack open the chain saws


----------



## Doug71

I enjoyed it.

I would have sent Rahda home rather than the older lady.

They seemed to struggle whittling a spoon so the chainsaw carving could be interesting!


----------



## Cooper

I can't believe that the chap who made the bent wood chair didn't have a plan in mind. How else could the technicians have known to build him the drum former, which in itself I found the most interesting thing in the show. How did he fix the bends together?

I didn't like the idea that the chair design had to meet all the requirements of an ergonomically designed chair yet be unusual/quirky. I think a traditionally designed and elegant chair would have really displayed their design and making skills far better. The laminated chair with the seat reaching the ground at the front would have been really difficult to get in and out of. You need your heels under you the lower and lift yourself in and out. But I think it amazing he achieved the laminate so well. Again I think the technicians must have played a big part in making the former, the pieces were on his bench at the beginning of the show.

The oak chair with all the slats was obviously the design of someone who had spent their career as a designer but the flimsy construction seemed typical of someone who was used to sending a sketch to a professional workshop to have things made but had no real understanding of the engineering required to construct it. It looked nice though.

I would have liked to see more of the chair with the square section laminate. I couldn't see how it could be strong enough to take someones weight for more than a few moments.

The rocking chair with the back joined to the seat with Dovetails was mad. Its completely the wrong thing to do at a joint with so much leverage applied to it. Yet they commended his excellent "joinery" skills.

However, I think the contestants are doing really well to cope with the tight time constraints, silly commentary and superficial judgements. I will be watching next week.


----------



## swisstony

Well aside from the fact that finally something for me to watch than the guff my OH makes me watch. I can't be critical at all about the level of expertise or craftsmanship because all of the contestants could beat me hands down on skill ( well maybe not tim  ) so I won't judge them on that. I think there are some interesting levels of woodworking , design on the show. Sure the presenting is pretty dire and less said about the judges the better ( wonder what kind of PJ's he wears unless he is ready for bed after the show ) however I spend my time just laughing at the 'eclectic ' mix we have. and WTF is happening with the technician who has a tache but wears his hair like Heidi !!


----------



## Mike.R

I caught the quick shot of the mustachioed technician with the Rapunzel like barnet. 

Sooner or later that's going to get twisted round something that's spinning quite quickly.


----------



## swisstony

Mike.R said:


> I caught the quick shot of the mustachioed technician with the Rapunzel like barnet.
> 
> Sooner or later that's going to get twisted round something that's spinning quite quickly.


 
My daughter sat through it last night ( I made her though as a yoooth she was multi-tasking between the show and tiktok/snapchat/whatever ) and she now thinks that all woodworkers are freaks and couldn't get her head round the concept of someone called Misti who looks like a wrestler with a deep voice yet is a 'she"  and she was on the floor in tears when the technician came into view.

Observation : When Rhada was doing the resin pour, I spent some considerable time explaining what a form was , and why he was using melamine faced wood . She was looking puzzled until my wife piped up.. ' oh stop being complicated , its like a big jelly mould ! " I give up...


----------



## recipio

Joe did well to get the laminated ply down. Those Bessey clamps are really for light clamping - a set of Record sash clamps would have been better. As for Rhada attempting a resin pour with no experience -what could possibly go wrong Duh ! Does anyone know anything about that workshop ? Its pretty well equipped for a workshop with apparently no windows.


----------



## Lonsdale73

recipio said:


> Those Bessey clamps....



If Axminster were hoping for some quality advertising and sales from their involvement then I guess they're going to be sorely disappointed.

When they announced the double elimination, I did wonder if the producers decided after the first two shows to speed things up a bit and save too much precious/expensive timber going to waste? And before a tool was touched, I predicted which two would exit. I thought they were a bit harsh on Michelle and the chair custom sized to suit her form and once again Radha got an easy ride. I was pleased for Joe, the one genuinely likeable contestant. I've never watched a single episode of Game of Thrones so Misti's creation meant nothing to me and wasn't to my liking; really not buying their "I've never done this before" b/s. Odds on eventual winner.

I find Bill almost as irritating as Tim was but with more ability. That said, he had an impressive show last night.

Given their involvement with the program, Axminstr's Craig and Colwin would have made far more credible and likeable judges albeit nowhere near as flamboyant/extrovert/loud!


----------



## Jameshow

recipio said:


> Joe did well to get the laminated ply down. Those Bessey clamps are really for light clamping - a set of Record sash clamps would have been better. As for Rhada attempting a resin pour with no experience -what could possibly go wrong Duh ! Does anyone know anything about that workshop ? Its pretty well equipped for a workshop with apparently no windows.


Timber framed roof with pvc sides? 

Where was it? 

Devon? Derbyshire? 

Cheers James


----------



## swisstony

Jameshow said:


> Timber framed roof with pvc sides?
> 
> Where was it?
> 
> Devon? Derbyshire?
> 
> Cheers James



its in wales isn't it ? sure I saw a bloody big dragon on a flag at some point


----------



## Chunkytfg

swisstony said:


> its in wales isn't it ? sure I saw a bloody big dragon on a flag at some point


Google agrees with you . Wales


----------



## Alpha-Dave

I’m looking forward to the next one, it’s interesting to see how the challenges vary, but the overarching theme for me is that:
1) This is mostly about the design.
2) The overall finish&execution (the actual wood work) is then secondary.
3) There is little or no consideration about skills, productivity, safety, efficient use of materials or choice of production methods; all of that is covered by the ‘technicians’.

Therefore taking this as a competition to ‘design a thing (70% marks), and see if you can bodge it in 2 days (30% marks), then it is alright.

I would like to see a ‘second channel’ (maybe on YouTube) that covered the technicians building the jigs and doing most of the work.


----------



## HamsterJam

I thought the whittling was dangerous. Many occasions the contestants were cutting towards their hands and not a glove in sight. I would have thought the programme makers would at least have safety covered off.


----------



## Alpha-Dave

HamsterJam said:


> I thought the whittling was dangerous. Many occasions the contestants were cutting towards their hands and not a glove in sight. I would have thought the programme makers would at least have safety covered off.



While I agree in that I cringed a couple of times as there were shots of people pushing hard into the wood, where if there was a slip they would cut themselves, there must have been hundreds of knife-strokes where it didn’t go wrong, unless Joe’s injury was the only one shown.

I very much hope that no one is actually thinking that this could be instructive for someone wanting to learn to whittle (or make a bed!) any more than having watched Bake Off makes me able to make a wedding cake.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

HamsterJam said:


> I thought the whittling was dangerous. Many occasions the contestants were cutting towards their hands and not a glove in sight. I would have thought the programme makers would at least have safety covered off.


people watch Formula One hoping to see an accident - maybe the producers work on this theory.


----------



## HamsterJam

Phil Pascoe said:


> people watch Formula One hoping to see an accident - maybe the producers work on this theory.



I really hope this doesn’t apply to the chainsaw episode next week.


----------



## MARK.B.

Chainsaw carving  what could possibly go wrong


----------



## HamsterJam

Alpha-Dave said:


> I very much hope that no one is actually thinking that this could be instructive for someone wanting to learn to whittle (or make a bed!) any more than having watched Bake Off makes me able to make a wedding cake.



Although the public emulating what is shown on TV is a valid point, I was thinking more of the contestants injuring themselves and wondering how well the programme company’s safety regime would stand up to an investigation.


----------



## JSW

6 blocks of wood with the shallowest of scoops taken out of one end constitutes the winning spoon/s? eh?

I seriously hope the remaining contestants get some qualified training in chainsaw use before next weeks show.


----------



## MikeK

JSW said:


> 6 blocks of wood with the shallowest of scoops taken out of one end constitutes the winning spoon/s? eh?
> 
> I seriously hope the remaining contestants get some qualified training in chainsaw use before next weeks show.



I think the problem was with the instructions. As I recall, the requirements were to make as many identical spoons in the time allowed. Apparently, the only test for being spoon worthy was the ability to scoop a powdery substance from a container. I used to have some measuring spoons that were similar to the wooden masterpieces. They were flat plastic rectangles with appropriately sized depressions for each of the measurements from 1/8 teaspoon to 1 tablespoon. I never liked them and they didn't make the trip to Germany.

My wife saw the notice for the show and thought I would enjoy watching it. I told her I had already seen the first episode and was not impressed, but she insisted. She is not a woodworker, but agrees we won't be watching the next episode.


----------



## dzj

I skimmed through the second episode on YT. Dolls' houses. 
They're a creative bunch. Interesting ideas. Perhaps a bit lacking when it came to the execution of the projects.
There are worse things to watch on TV.


----------



## akirk

my wife and I have watched no. 3 and enjoyed it again…
the castle and lighthouse on last weeks and then Misty’s armchair this week have all inspired me to do something similar…


----------



## rixarena

akirk said:


> my wife and I have watched no. 3 and enjoyed it again…
> the castle and lighthouse on last weeks and then Misty’s armchair this week have all inspired me to do something similar…



I don't mind the program and it is made for entertainment, if it manages to inspire anyone to do anything then that's got to be a good thing. Better than watching made in Chelsea or love Island that have no betterment of society.


----------



## Mark Hancock

recipio said:


> Joe did well to get the laminated ply down. Those Bessey clamps are really for light clamping - a set of Record sash clamps would have been better. As for Rhada attempting a resin pour with no experience -what could possibly go wrong Duh ! Does anyone know anything about that workshop ? Its pretty well equipped for a workshop with apparently no windows.


It's on the Glanusk Estate, Crickhowell. .....I had a workshop there when based in Wales.


----------



## Woodernhift

I get the impression that the program is more about an “unusual design” that can be knocked together rather than making something useful and usable in wood. The judges ask for ridiculous things like, and heirloom dolls house or in the recent one a unique chair design. Unique chair wow do they realise just how stupid they sound, someone who could design and build something in the time allowed that had not already been done would not been seen dead a program like this.


----------



## djellworth

I've watched all three episodes now with my (non wood-working) partner and share many of the views expressed here. It does seem to be improving a little and some of the designs are excellent. The two main gripes remain however: 1) Those two judges really take the joy from the programme. 2) Compared to Bake Off and Pottery Throwdown, the time limits really don't suit the whole "philosophy of woodwork" which, I think, is meant to be slow, careful and thoughtful. All in all though I am now quite looking forward to watch episode 4!!


----------



## djellworth

One thing I forgot to put in previous comment. Whilst there is certainly an overt display of "tick the boxes" in terms of diversity, this is maybe not a bad thing as I believe things have really changed. 

There is no doubt that historically woodwork has been much more male dominated - certainly when I was at school, boys did woodwork and girls were not given the option. The classes in our workshop were for many years dominated by 50-70 year old males often re-kindling a passion for woodwork which started at school back in the day.

Since I started keeping track of numbers who attend our courses, around 40% of students have been female. We ask them why they are coming along for a course. "I just love wood" is by far the most common answer, often accompanied by "but I've never had the chance to work with it and I don't know how". 

We are also seeing bigger age range including younger folk - they sometimes do some woodwork at school as part of their Resistant Materials lessons but rarely have the chance to develop their skills further.

Lastly, we are seeing a significant minority who are openly gay - obviously we don't ask people - but many refer to their same sex partners or indeed come along as a couple.

So - whilst there is undoubtedly some tokenism on some programmes, woodwork is definitely no longer the preserve of middle/old aged white males. Like me.


----------



## Stigmorgan

I'm looking forward to the final, I want to see a proper "big build" with a generous amount of time to complete it (I know, it won't happen) 

Joe and Misti were definately the best of the bunch, my only issue was that Mistis chair looked more like something that was meant be looked at rather than sat in, the edges and corners of all those timbers would have really dug into your back after a few minutes.
Radha had a nice concept, it's a shame he destroyed the resin pour, I think it would have looked really nice even though fairly impractical, there definately seems to be a Japanese theme to his builds so far (dolls house excluded)


----------



## Gareth62

hlvd said:


> These people are pretty clueless, those joints are horrendous.
> Mr Bradshaw my college lecturer would be pulling his hair out seeing them banging away with no sacrificial piece of wood as they assemble their projects.


I read that as Mr Bandsaw



JSW said:


> 6 blocks of wood with the shallowest of scoops taken out of one end constitutes the winning spoon/s? eh?
> 
> I seriously hope the remaining contestants get some qualified training in chainsaw use before next weeks show.


She was about the only one THAT followed the brief
“Make as MANY identical spoons as you can”

I just wish folk wouldn’t stop with the negative comments it’s the shows fault not the people taking part.

I find it weird they are all doing different things on most shows like this they are shown what to make and they all have to make the same thing.


----------



## Lonsdale73

How on earth did Billy survive? How on earth was Misti Woodworker of the Week? Or do they mean weak? And were they a bit hard on Radha because the architect felt threatened by another strutting peacock?


----------



## robgul

I wasn't going to bother watching but succumbed - it was all a bit of nonsense to me in terms of "woodworking" 

. . . the finely sculpted stuff (Misti & Radha) was vaguely relevant but the remainder with chainsaws/grinders etc were more akin to the "chainsaw challenge" events you see with tartan-shirted, bearded, muscular lumberjacks performing at US-style outdoor farm show extravaganzas.

BUT the real question is what colour outfit will the judge bloke be wearing next week? 

I can't see this making it to a second series.


----------



## Lons

Lonsdale73 said:


> were they a bit hard on Radha because the architect felt threatened by another strutting peacock?


 I've watched them all, well sort of whilst doing other stuff and muttering choice words under my breath, it is getting slightly better but it's definitely a people watching not a woodworking program and should be named the incompetent wood butchers as none of them will ever be Britain's best woodworker.
I've heard that all the tools and equipment was loaned of gifted but the good quality timber and ply being wasted is criminal and the statement that they are replacing that by planting trees is a weak justification.


----------



## Sheptonphil

To my mind you sculpt a sculpture, therefore I didn’t feel Radah or MustI even met the brief Despite Radah’s sculpted pigeon.

Billy’s lion was so over optimistic for a two day challenge, but I thought he made a fantastic effort for the time given, it was in brief and deserved to keep him in. Joe’s boxer dog was a very decent likeness of a boxer, even if not his, and I’d have been fine with that effort again in two days and was at least as good as the snail. Misti using a roughing gouge turning the base deserved a yellow card (or red) from the ‘safety technicians’, and a two dimensional glue up just didn’t cut it for me in this challenge. She should have gone just because Radah had immunity.

None will ever be Britain’s best, a mis-titled programme, but it’s still good to have some sort of wood working exposure on mainstream tv.


----------



## akirk

Sheptonphil said:


> To my mind you sculpt a sculpture, therefore I didn’t feel Radah or MustI even met the brief Despite Radah’s sculpted pigeon.



Really?  ignoring this program and look at world renowned sculptures - some might be sculpted out of wood or stone - but many are made in other ways - welding / glued / etc. - a dictionary definition is* the art of carving, modeling, welding, or otherwise producing figurative or abstract works of art in three dimensions, as in relief, intaglio, or in the round.* - so on that basis, all of them are valid...

Radah's was I thought very good, admittedly the tail was not as good as the body, but simply a time factor - but it was figurative and realistic - Misti's - my favourite of them all, something I would happily own... The two of them are clearly a step above the others...

I am surprised that anyone takes the title too seriously - clearly it is not Britain's BEST woodworker, but the programme is fun to watch - it would appear that it can appeal to those who enjoy wood and their spouses which is no bad thing, and I certainly find it inspiring - there may be others who look at it and think - I wonder if... and that could be enough to start a lifetime enjoyment of working with wood...

Anyone who takes the title seriously will be no doubt disappointed - but instead let's celebrate mainstream TV programmes on wood... ultimately it is TV which means it is about personalities - which will be why they selected those they chose... but we can still enjoy the content - those who are grumpy old men can sit in the corner and pontficate about how they would do it better, and everyone else can just enjoy it


----------



## Lons

The Zebra whilst being pleasing visually should have been disqualified rather than awarded best of the week IMO. I was supposed to be a carving excercise and the cartoon boxer was far closer to that remit. The Zebra was not a carving in any sense of the word, cut out with a jigsaw, scorched and joined with metal rods then turning a base on a lathe. Sculpture well could be carving - never.
The judges like the contestants were a very poor choice, the architect hasn't any clothes sense never mind woodworking nouse.


----------



## NickM

Lons said:


> The Zebra whilst being pleasing visually should have been disqualified rather than awarded best of the week IMO. I was supposed to be a carving excercise and the cartoon boxer was far closer to that remit. The Zebra was not a carving in any sense of the word, cut out with a jigsaw, scorched and joined with metal rods then turning a base on a lathe. Sculpture well could be carving - never.
> The judges like the contestants were a very poor choice, the architect hasn't any clothes sense never mind woodworking nouse.



I think the remit was "sculpture" rather than carving. I'm surprised so many of them went with large carved pieces. Incredibly hard to do. I thought Joe was a bit hard done by. I actually didn't think much of the snail as it looked unrecognisable as a snail to my eye.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I watched the first episode ...


----------



## Alpha-Dave

I’m still enjoying it, and I have now got to the point where I understand the judge’s decisions, even if I don’t agree with them.

1) This is mostly about the design. *70%* of the marks
2) The overall finish&execution (the actual wood work) is then secondary. *30%* of the marks
3) There is little or no consideration about skills, productivity, safety, efficient use of materials or choice of production methods; all of that is covered by the ‘technicians’. *0%* of the marks


----------



## TRITON

I've followed this thread a bit after missing the first 2 programs and off the strength of feeling hadn't bothered following the prog after that.
But thanks to YT i have watched the first program and totally loved it, both from a design and make aspect.
Furthermore I think many of the critical comments on this thread are completely unwarranted and dare I say it, a tad on the sour grape side.

What is clear is the entrants all love the aspect of creativity, their enthusiasm, and the judges are completely fair in their assessments, and without any mollycoddling.

Having spent 4 years at college learning furniture design, the critical nature is ,compared to this prog pretty tame, and during my class time all of us students were faced with a greater deal of in depth criticism, covering every single aspect of our design and craftsmanship, not only from the lecturers, but from fellow students.

I look forward to watching the rest of the series.


----------



## Cooper

I bet Misty is a much better designer than the architect, who I think is probably a bit envious of her design skills. I wonder what the architects woodworking skills are like?

I couldn't see anything about the snail that warranted staying in the competition, though in previous shows she has demonstrated good design and making skills. 

Why has Radah's really irritating laugh got to feature so much? He has good woodworking skills but I would like to hear less of him.


----------



## TRITON

Cooper said:


> I wonder what the architects woodworking skills are like?


Charles Rennie Mackintosh was a designer,Frank Lloyd Wright was a designer, Charles Eames was a designer. They didnt craft that they designed, that was done by someone else.


----------



## hlvd

I'm sure if Misti were to team up with a competent woodworker we'd see some spectacular stuff.


----------



## Gareth62

Misty, I think failed to impress just a jigsaw cut out from a template all the others put their heart and soul into their work

I feel joe should not have been the one to go this week

It should have been Charlie? (was it) with the snail or Misty or maybe Billy to go

Why the hell did Billy go so big as it was to heavy for the workshop floor

Still think the show is wrong, the judges should show them or tell them what they want them to make and they should all have to make the same thing, like on bake off or pottery throw down how can you compare joes lion to mistys zebra, the only time this happens is in the elimination round


----------



## LBCarpentry

The show is a bit lame in terms of woodwork for woodworkers. I mean, only one of them is actually qualifies with any real world experience. Radha is clearly going to win the series by a 100 yard mile.

Billy should go. Can no one see that billy is an absolute chancer?? The kid has natural talent but never does any plans to work to, and then produces sub standard work and gets frustrated. Christ if he build houses like he carves lions then you better be scared for future projects.


----------



## baldkev

I still havent watch it, but judging by the thread ( and the 14 pages so far  ) theyve got people talking..... even bad publicity is publicity...... and if anyone, like me, hasn't watched an episode, but has read 14 pages of comments, they could have spent that valuable time making something, drinking cider ir sleeping


----------



## Adam W.

Maybe they like to get outraged before bedtime, so they can fume over Muffy and the others when they can't sleep at 3:30am


----------



## Cooper

LBCarpentry said:


> Billy should go. Can no one see that billy is an absolute chancer?? The kid has natural talent but never does any plans to work to


I find the idea of working without plans difficult but I came across exam entries, when I was a GCSE moderator (a long time ago), where there were the sketchiest drawings in the folio but the final outcome obviously showed real style and flair. I remember teacher's really distressed that their star designer and maker hadn't hit all the boxes in the mark scheme. Where I could see that they could sketch and had powerful imaginations l always credited them with good marks, as the research and development were implicit in the final outcome. I never wanted to thwart the prospects of a talented student because they were too impatient to slog through the exam's tedious methodology. Perhaps Billy is one of those? He isn't a sculptor though.


----------



## Lons

NickM said:


> I think the remit was "sculpture" rather than carving. I'm surprised so many of them went with large carved pieces. Incredibly hard to do. I thought Joe was a bit hard done by. I actually didn't think much of the snail as it looked unrecognisable as a snail to my eye.


That's a very fair point Nick, for some reason I thought they had been asked to carve an animal, shows just how little attention I was paying to the program, . I had to undelete it and watch the beginning to check.


----------



## Adam W.

I can't see what the hangup about a lack paper plans is.


----------



## Alpha-Dave

Adam W. said:


> I can't see what the hangup about a lack paper plans is.


I think it’s because other similar programs do this because it makes the competition easier to judge (maybe fairer). For example in:

Sewing Bee they have starting templates for one round that they need to adapt, and only in the final round do they do something completely unconstrained.

Bake Off is the same; round 1 ‘what is your twist on this standard thing’, round 2 ‘make this standard thing as well as possible’, round 3 ‘do something impressive’.

I think that woodworking being slower has made them reduce to 2 rounds, which means screw-ups are more significant, so less ‘fair’ by the audience’s perspective.


----------



## Adam W.

I'll have to try and sit through an episode then. I gave it 5 mins the first time and switched it off.


----------



## Alpha-Dave

Adam W. said:


> I'll have to try and sit through an episode then. I gave it 5 mins the first time and switched it off.



Honestly it’s not bad, the issue most people seem to be having is that it’s not about the actual woodwork. If it was titled ‘Britain’s best amateur furniture designer who can make it in less than 2 days’ then I think it would all be fine.

Edit, maybe ‘*Britain’s best amateur-designer of furniture that can be completed in a weekend*’.


----------



## hlvd

Alpha-Dave said:


> Honestly it’s not bad, the issue most people seem to be having is that it’s not about the actual woodwork. If it was titled ‘Britain’s best amateur furniture designer who can make it in less than 2 days’ then I think it would all be fine.
> 
> Edit, maybe ‘*Britain’s best amateur-designer of furniture that can be completed in a weekend*’.


Sorry, it's terrible, it's school woodwork class skill level at best.
They have two days to actuallymake their projects, but are already designed by themselves and all wood prepared by the technicians in advanced.


----------



## LBCarpentry

Adam W. said:


> I can't see what the hangup about a lack paper plans is.


I’m not saying that’s why he should go. I’m saying that’s what is currently letting him down. I don’t believe he does have ENOUGH natural ability to do it.

I agree with comments of Britain’s best school project though


----------



## Adam W.

Alpha-Dave said:


> Honestly it’s not bad, the issue most people seem to be having is that it’s not about the actual woodwork. If it was titled ‘Britain’s best amateur furniture designer who can make it in less than 2 days’ then I think it would all be fine.
> 
> Edit, maybe ‘*Britain’s best amateur-designer of furniture that can be completed in a weekend*’.




I did get to the bit where she was starting to make the green oak bed frame and went .....Oooh, it's heavy! That's where it ended for me.


----------



## Lonsdale73

Alpha-Dave said:


> Honestly it’s not bad, the issue most people seem to be having is that it’s not about the actual woodwork. If it was titled ‘Britain’s best amateur furniture designer who can make it in less than 2 days’ then I think it would all be fine.
> 
> Edit, maybe ‘*Britain’s best amateur-designer of furniture that can be completed in a weekend*’.



It's better than nothing but it could be a whole lot better. It has very little to do with the quality of the finished item or the route to get there, it's all about the individuals. That said, when you see Misti's zebra 'sculpture' in the opening credits, it looks a helluva lot better than it did at the judging stage, far more 'polished', shall we say? Joe was robbed.


----------



## cisamcgu

Was the Zebra even the minimum 1 metre tall that was a parameters ?


----------



## akirk

cisamcgu said:


> Was the Zebra even the minimum 1 metre tall that was a parameters ?


I expect so - just the stand was quite large - I would guess 1 - 1.5m ?


----------



## Nelly111s

I wish I had half of Billy's imagination.


----------



## mr rusty

I watched a bit of the last episode. What really concerned me was angle grinder carving. Those carver and saw blades in angle grinders are absolutely lethal, and showing them to Joe Public who might think they'll have a go IMHO is just dangerous. Son of a friend opened his arm up with one.


----------



## Bristol_Rob

I thought Joe was robed and Snail lady should have gone


----------



## Corset

i have been a woodworker a few years (20) and i think its easy to be cynical and mock these programs and the people on them. i must admit i found the pyjama guy a bit much. When it first started i was a bit cynical too. However my kids ,who despite my best efforts have never really gone woody, love it. My son was asking about joints and wood types. He actually makes me sit down and watch it with him.
Interesting they were really annoyed the zebra won last week as they loved the dog. So for me, if it encourages kids into woodworking its a win. Highbrow cabinetmaking is all very well but maybe showing people making mistakes is a bit more accessable, we all have to start somewhere. I personally dont think i could rustle much up in two days as i am quite slow. i was wastching a sam maloof thing on youtube, kids couldnt have been less interested.


----------



## HamsterJam

mr rusty said:


> I watched a bit of the last episode. What really concerned me was angle grinder carving. Those carver and saw blades in angle grinders are absolutely lethal, and showing them to Joe Public who might think they'll have a go IMHO is just dangerous. Son of a friend opened his arm up with one.



I didn’t go back to confirm but I think one brief clip showed Misti turning cross grain on the zebra base using a spindle rouging gouge.


----------



## treeturner123

Corset said:


> i have been a woodworker a few years (20) and i think its easy to be cynical and mock these programs and the people on them. i must admit i found the pyjama guy a bit much. When it first started i was a bit cynical too. However my kids ,who despite my best efforts have never really gone woody, love it. My son was asking about joints and wood types. He actually makes me sit down and watch it with him.
> Interesting they were really annoyed the zebra won last week as they loved the dog. So for me, if it encourages kids into woodworking its a win. Highbrow cabinetmaking is all very well but maybe showing people making mistakes is a bit more accessable, we all have to start somewhere. I personally dont think i could rustle much up in two days as i am quite slow. i was wastching a sam maloof thing on youtube, kids couldnt have been less interested.



I think you have the whole point here Corset. This is a program to make people interested enough to take the first tentative steps NOT a program for the experienced woodworker.

BTW HamsterJam, have you not seen YouTube videos of equally hair raising turning practices; I certainly have!

Phil


----------



## MorrisWoodman12

Bristol_Rob said:


> I thought Joe was robed and Snail lady should have gone


Ah! Yes! But then it would have left just three(?) blokes and a ?????? and that would have been inferred as sexist. 
My prediction for the final, assuming three people in it, Misty, Charlie (snail lady?) and Radha unlessone of these totallyscrews up so cannot be selected/saved. Why? Unfortunately the programme will want a trans, a female and a token male/person of colour.


----------



## HamsterJam

treeturner123 said:


> .
> 
> BTW HamsterJam, have you not seen YouTube videos of equally hair raising turning practices; I certainly have!
> 
> Phil



Sadly, I have. 

Unfortunately I don’t think there is much that can be done regarding the quality of YT content. I expected better from a national TV channel though.


----------



## xraymtb

Just caught up with the latest episode - for me Billy should have gone. It wasn't finished, it didn't really look that good and as usual he has taken on something far too large with no plan and failed to deliver.

The show in general has grown on me each week - it is at least as much about the design as the execution but isn't that arguably true for a lot of woodwork and crafts? You can make a chair with the most exquisitely refined turned legs and steam-bent arms attached to a hand carved Elm seat, but if the legs splay inwards, the arms are only 100mm above the seat and the whole thing tilts at a 30deg angle it's not going to be a good piece of furniture.

In my opinion, one of the shows biggest challenges is in defining 'woodwork'. I would love to see them challenged to cut half-blind dovetails by hand but I'll bet there are plenty on this forum who couldn't do a good job of that either - but ask them to do the same with a bandsaw/router and they would turn out beautifully. My version of 'woodwork' isn't the same as yours, Misty's or Norm Abrams' but that doesn't mean I can't appreciate it.

Still think having an architect as a judge is a nonsense though...


----------



## Garden Shed Projects

I wasn’t too impressed with the chainsaw use either. No chainsaw boots and starting it in the air at arms length, something that happens but shouldn’t be shown as the way to start one. 

I think the smiley lad was lucky to get immunity at his peacock was rubbish and he was pretty lucky last week.


----------



## FifeMike

I'm watching it, enjoying the variety of approaches and personalities. If anything it will motivate me to get on with some projects that only exist in my head (and wood store) so far. As many have commented the format is removed from actual woodwork production but that's TV - Jewellery making friends had the same complaints with the "All that Glitters" show. 
Anyone know what happened to the Rustic woodwork program fronted by Lee Mack? Saw trailers but no show.


----------



## Tris

Was that the one that got canned because one contestant had neo-nazi tattoos on his face?


----------



## Jameshow

Lee Mack would have been a much better presenter!


----------



## Hornbeam

I have watched all the series so far but am not sure why. I would not expect a first series to get it all right but despite being able to look at other similar series they have managed virtually every mistake in the book
Too broad a subject
Awful presented (who was no better on the bake off)
Lackluster judges with no clear judging criteria
Overambitious projects way beyond the skills of the participants or time constraints. (this is weekend woodwork)
The skill level of the participants is clearly limited. Again looking at other similar programmes I think there is a far greater skill level (particularly the jewellery one) but perhaps I am more critical of my own area of knowledge. I cannot believe that given the number of people who leave colleges such as Rycotewood etc or private courses that they couldnt have found some better more skilled applicants
There are no skill demonstrations and although I of the judges clearly has some skill she hides it well
I have yet to see anything where I thought "that looks really good" and was a saleable item
Hopefully the presenters will learn from their mistakes and get things right next time but I am not too sure


----------



## thetyreman

Tris said:


> Was that the one that got canned because one contestant had neo-nazi tattoos on his face?



yes


----------



## FifeMike

Tris said:


> Was that the one that got canned because one contestant had neo-nazi tattoos on his face?


I think it was, I remember some talk of that foul up.


----------



## Mickjay

MorrisWoodman12 said:


> Ah! Yes! But then it would have left just three(?) blokes and a ?????? and that would have been inferred as sexist.
> My prediction for the final, assuming three people in it, Misty, Charlie (snail lady?) and Radha unlessone of these totallyscrews up so cannot be selected/saved. Why? Unfortunately the programme will want a trans, a female and a token male/person of colour.


I must admit, that thought had crossed my mind too. Can't be getting rid of any members of the minority groups or else could be perceived as racist, sexist or transphobic, which leaves a token white male in the mix. I had this particular thought the previous week when it was obvious that Radha should have been one of the departures based on the judging criteria. My money is on Misti to win as the most minority group of all


----------



## JSW

Mickjay said:


> I must admit, that thought had crossed my mind too. Can't be getting rid of any members of the minority groups or else could be perceived as racist, sexist or transphobic, which leaves a token white male in the mix. I had this particular thought the previous week when it was obvious that Radha should have been one of the departures based on the judging criteria. My money is on Misti to win as the most minority group of all


Yep, Billy out this week, then Misti to win overall, which is a bit of a shame because



Spoiler



If you've seen the challenge they have lined up for the final, I think Billy would have walked it


----------



## billgiles

I thought that the peacock carving was very good and realistic. The tail was a bit basic but the idea was good given more time it could have been stunning.


----------



## Owd Jockey

What a terrible terrible waste of wood! Even if the Oak tree conveniently fell down.


----------



## seanf

The judges seemed to take a dislike of Joe's boxer right from the start simply because he tried to inject some humour into the piece. I thought it was good and unfair for him to leave

Sean


----------



## Woodernhift

Chainsaw carving !!!! not the right protective clothing!!!! the producers should be shot. The head of Joe‘s boxer had real character well done as Joe said he was new to carving. Joe should not have been let go, the snail and the lion were both worse.

Token contestants, mmm starting to think this is the case.

Its a shame this program could have been so much better, maybe as someone already suggested, best apprentice would have been so much more interesting, maybe with proper judges and possibly a renowned designer/maker involved.


----------



## thetyreman

Woodernhift said:


> Chainsaw carving !!!! not the right protective clothing!!!! the producers should be shot. The head of Joe‘s boxer had real character well done as Joe said he was new to carving. Joe should not have been let go, the snail and the lion were both worse.
> 
> Token contestants, mmm starting to think this is the case.
> 
> Its a shame this program could have been so much better, maybe as someone already suggested, best apprentice would have been so much more interesting, maybe with proper judges and possibly a renowned designer/maker involved.



agree, I thought the lion was actually the worse one, the face on it was appauling, it just didn't work at all.


----------



## Alpha-Dave

I would defend the snail because:
1) It was a reasonable use of starting wood; a good ‘outdoor sculpture’.
2) It brought joy to the judges, clearly there was something fun about it that maybe you had to be there to experience.

The lion versus boxer on the other hand, the lion was a bad idea and poorly finished; if it had been sitting rather than standing he may have had a chance of completing it. The boxer had character, so I thought was much better than the lion.


----------



## Stigmorgan

I think the judges had decided against the boxer from the conception of design purely because of the boxing gloves, the lion was by far the worst of them all, on a side note, the zebra head was not an original idea, I've seen them advertised online for sale before.


----------



## Bristol_Rob

Billy was robbed


----------



## TRITON

So Billy is out, and thats not a surprise.
The drinks cabinet was a nice idea,, but too big and he could have been more technical in it, and here im pointing at the straight slats going around without at least putting angles on them so they fitted better together, and the inner spinny bit, while a good idea, i thought the holes to place the bottles in were just gigantic and again out of proportion.

I can identify with Billy in that i hardly ever draw anything beyond a couple of childlike sketches, and what happens is you lose out and forget bits. Playing it by ear always leaves me with problems, and all my worst constructions done this way always appear bodged together, whereas when i originally did proper drawings for college, it worked out really well and I could construct all the pieces with ease, knowing before hand what sizes I was working to


----------



## Southdownswolf

How did that plywood junk beat the beautiful Georgian inspired cabinet?


----------



## TRITON

Southdownswolf said:


> How did that plywood junk beat the beautiful Georgian inspired cabinet?


That maker was already through so although it was shown, it wasnt really included in the running.

A great touch with the guilding. But I honestly felt it was a bit chunky.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

FifeMike said:


> As many have commented the format is removed from actual woodwork production but that's TV - Jewellery making friends had the same complaints with the "All that Glitters" show.



They all need to be dumbed down to an extent for Joe Public but I thought the jewellery series was probably more interesting if you had some knowledge of jewellery making and silversmithing. I don't really know why anyone with any knowledge of woodworking bothers to watch this one.


----------



## TRITON

Phil Pascoe said:


> I don't really know why anyone with any knowledge of woodworking bothers to watch this one.


Because its interesting to see other peoples designs. It gives you ideas and directions to work in.


----------



## robgul

Have to say I thought today's semi-final was a bit more realistic in terms of the task/product - something functional and that most people could relate to. The steam bending bit was pretty irrelevant in my view.

I can see why Billy went - the idea and basic execution was great - but as mentioned above the design wasn't really fit for purpose size-wise and as the judges said the finishing was poor.


----------



## starlingwood

Why was Radha not announced woodworker of the week? Does winning the challenge also make you immune from that title? Misti's thing was OK but compared to Radhas not really a scratch.


----------



## Stigmorgan

None of them deserved to win the immunity challenge, having said that, Radha definately had the best build followed by Misti, in my opinion it could just as easily have been Charly to leave, she and Billy just didn't have the level of finish they should have had. 

Anyone stupid enough to be signing up to take part website they showed at the end?


----------



## recipio

Never heard of a Memphis school of woodworking but Misti's piece looked like something Freddie Baier would produce. I thought Rhada's piece was the most coherent design - the others lacked finesse and those barrel hinges were not up to the job.


----------



## Lonsdale73

starlingwood said:


> Why was Radha not announced woodworker of the week? Does winning the challenge also make you immune from that title? Misti's thing was OK but compared to Radhas not really a scratch.



Whether he had immunity or not, his piece was clearly the best in the show and he should have been WotW too. Misti's monstrosity was hideous and tge decision to award it WotW was definitely an ofo moment. No qualms with Billy going. Money still on Misti to win overall.


----------



## TRITON

recipio said:


> Memphis school


Memphis is the name of a group of designers from the early 80's
Post modern and contemporary, based in the late 70's, early 80's at studio Alchimia.

Misti's drinks cabinet was based upon the Carlton Bookcase by Ettore Sottsass who was the lead designer.



Stigmorgan said:


> Anyone stupid enough to be signing up to take part website they showed at the end?


If only I had the confidence, but im outside of studios these days so kind of feel like I've lost my mojo. And you really need to be fully absorbed into it.
I wish I'd stayed in the studio and become self employed, instead of working in some dusty old cabinetshop making American arts and crafts. But hey ho, money is nice to have, especially when handed bundles of £20's


----------



## robgul

recipio said:


> Never heard of a Memphis school of woodworking but Misti's piece looked like something Freddie Baier would produce. I thought Rhada's piece was the most coherent design - the others lacked finesse and those barrel hinges were not up to the job.



I thought the Charlie's barrel idea was quite good but would have worked better if it had one wider panel as the base (i.e. a barrel with a flat side) which could then have had a one-piece door hinged downwards to make a serving shelf and also created a wider flat surface to store the bottles and glasses in the cupboard part.


----------



## hlvd

I thought last night's programme was a lot better.
Billy has a lot of talent considering he's self taught, but is a very long way from accepted standards. I feel if he were to go to college or serve an apprenticeship he'd be exceptional, but until then he'll always be in the winging it bracket.
Misti has exceptional designs but let down by her inexperience in woodworking, given more time I'm sure she'd come on a lot.
Last night's project was perfect for Radha's skillset, thoroughly deservef to go through.
I don't rate Charlie at all and was lucky to stay in, I'd have much preferred to see Billie stay.


----------



## Gary_S

Stigmorgan said:


> I think the judges had decided against the boxer from the conception of design purely because of the boxing gloves, the lion was by far the worst of them all, on a side note, the zebra head was not an original idea, I've seen them advertised online for sale before.


The drinks cabinet is inspired by someone else's design too. That said we are all inspired by things we see and like and when you look at the three remaining contestants, on their good days, they could win. Billy I don't see winning.


----------



## Gary_S

hlvd said:


> I thought last night's programme was a lot better.
> Billy has a lot of talent considering he's self taught, but is a very long way from accepted standards. I feel if he were to go to college or serve an apprenticeship he'd be exceptional, but until then he'll always be in the winging it bracket.
> Misti has exceptional designs but let down by her inexperience in woodworking, given more time I'm sure she'd come on a lot.
> Last night's project was perfect for Radha's skillset, thoroughly deservef to go through.
> I don't rate Charlie at all and was lucky to stay in, I'd have much preferred to see Billie stay.



I still think the skills challenge should be something like preparing a board by hand. 

Finally, my bugbear is that they all have their wood dimensioned. While Radha's was easily the best cabinet, those doors don't come easy when you start with non dimensioned wood.


----------



## hlvd

Gary_S said:


> I still think the skills challenge should be something like preparing a board by hand.
> 
> Finally, my bugbear is that they all have their wood dimensioned. While Radha's was easily the best cabinet, those doors don't come easy when you start with non dimensioned wood.


The thing is, being able to machine all that wood up is a skill in itself, and having it ready made is just diluting the required skills.

I doubt any of those except maybe Radha could dimension a board by hand, I doubt some of the earlier contestants could even operate a plane.


----------



## recipio

I don't think I saw anybody use a table saw .  How did Misti cut all those non 45 degree mitre joints !


----------



## Stigmorgan

recipio said:


> I don't think I saw anybody use a table saw .  How did Misti cut all those non 45 degree mitre joints !


There was a short clip of her trying to use a track saw, ive never used one but in the clip it seemed to me like the saw was grabbing the track rather than sliding smoothly which caused her cut to come out very wavy.


----------



## robgul

Stigmorgan said:


> There was a short clip of her trying to use a track saw, ive never used one but in the clip it seemed to me like the saw was grabbing the track rather than sliding smoothly which caused her cut to come out very wavy.



Yep - it seemed that the length of the rail and the narrower width of the plywood, therefore overhang, made it tricky (you need to pad the rail ends with some same thickness material)


----------



## TRITON

recipio said:


> I don't think I saw anybody use a table saw .  How did Misti cut all those non 45 degree mitre joints !


That was a bit weird actually, the way the track saw was all jerky and it was like it couldnt slide down the track.

Personally I'd have thought that would be a job for a sawbench sliding table. Or panel saw as they had board material to work with.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

hlvd said:


> I doubt any of those except maybe Radha could dimension a board by hand, I doubt some of the earlier contestants could even operate a plane.



That would be fascinating viewing, wouldn't it, watching someone plane a board flat?


----------



## Gary_S

Phil Pascoe said:


> That would be fascinating viewing, wouldn't it, watching someone plane a board flat?


Plenty of people enjoy watching it on You Tube


----------



## Woodernhift

Charlie forgo to take account of the saw kerf, she should have cut the door in 2 first than current the circle. Misty appears to be relying on knowledge of designed items that use really simple methods of making. Radha is the only real woodworker there.


----------



## Woodernhift

I was very disappointed in the judges they appeard not to recognise or value the work Radha had done, I am with many here that feel the judges are just not up to the job.


----------



## Jameshow

Radha tambour door should it not have had wood both sides of the fabric?


----------



## Bristol_Rob

Jameshow said:


> Radha tambour door should it not have had wood both sides of the fabric?



Nope.


----------



## Jameshow

Bristol_Rob said:


> Nope.


Thanks you learn something new every day!


----------



## akirk

Jameshow said:


> Radha tambour door should it not have had wood both sides of the fabric?


if it did, the inside wood would have to compress into a smaller space on the inside of any curve / corner… the outside copes with expansion by separating on the backing


----------



## TRITON

Woodernhift said:


> Charlie forgo to take account of the saw kerf, she should have cut the door in 2 first than current the circle. Misty appears to be relying on knowledge of designed items that use really simple methods of making. Radha is the only real woodworker there.


We have many joiners out there. Designers is something different, and not everyone who can design has the skill or interest in making what they design. As explained in my previous post.


----------



## Snettymakes

The truth is that the shows name does not tally with what they're actually judging. It should be "Britains Best Wood Maker". They focus a LOT on design rather than quality of workmanship.

Of course, they're trying to cater to as wide an audience as Bake Off does, and I applaud them for that. I would love to be watching a hardcore woodworking version, but the audience would be tiny and I'd rather see more people getting interested in the subject.


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## Hsmith192

Overall- a good series, enough woodworking was shown. The big builds and skill builder tasks were varied and interesting. The design work was really nice and some of the joinery was good.
Still think Rhada should’ve won! Overall good show.


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## Woodchips2

I think Radha lost it spending all that time laminating those chunky frames and not having enough time to finish the project whereas the other two did complete theirs. Made we want to design and build something unique for the garden!
Regards Keith


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## Chris JH

It was a good pilot and I hope it makes it to a second series. If it does I think the participants will be better prepared and the there will be a step change in the technical quality of the projects. It is always going to be a mix of design and execution skills and those that excel in both will progress. I hope we will meet some really exciting makers that can inspire new generations of skilled woodworkers.


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## Lonsdale73

Radha was robbed again


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## robgul

Lonsdale73 said:


> Radha was robbed again



Yebbut, why didn't he specify thicker timber and not have to waste all the time laminating stuff?


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## robgul

The series got slightly better as it progressed - the winner was worthy BUT it was really on design and creativity rather than woodworking skills (the judges were both design-led throughout the series) - the joinery skills shown by the two losers last night were pretty good, way better than Misti with pretty much just a saw, drill and screws.

IF it makes it to another series (anyone responded to the "take part" mention at the end????) then : 
a) ditch the judges and find two that have a more balanced woodwork skills/design approach 
b) think up more appropriate and realistic projects, perhaps with a tighter brief so that the contestants make similar items that can be judged by skill comparison rather than design, 
c) ditch the "skills challenge" - that added nothing (especially the final one) 
d) ditch the annoying Mel woman and find someone who still has the warmth and empathy to "look after" the consultants but doesn't spout all the stupid so-called jokes and humour.


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## TRITON

So who won. I missed the last prog.


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## Lonsdale73

TRITON said:


> So who won. I missed the last prog.


Who do you think?


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## Chris152

I'd say Misti's was by _far_ the most interesting piece of woodwork in the final.


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## akirk

none of these programs are aimed only at the enthusiasts - they have to be of interest to the general public or they won't be made...
therefore, a focus on types of dovetails, etc. would switch people off if the actual item produced is not as good - so design has to be a big part of it and that is where Misti's skills lie... It is therefore more of an issue with the name of the programme than the content... If you looked at those three items they made and asked which would receive a commission to build one for someone's garden - it would probably be Misti's - finished / cohesive / funky / etc. rather than a wooden cube with a roof sitting on top of it - unfinished, or a wood wigwam...


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## Lonsdale73

robgul said:


> Yebbut, why didn't he specify thicker timber and not have to waste all the time laminating stuff?


True, maybe he just got off on the idea of having 120 clamps at his disposal. Still robbed as even 'unfinished' his final build had far more to do with woodworking than something using half a ton of screws to stiffen it up.


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## paulrbarnard

Lonsdale73 said:


> True, maybe he just got off on the idea of having 120 clamps at his disposal. Still robbed as even 'unfinished' his final build had far more to do with woodworking than something using half a ton of screws to stiffen it up.


If he had finished the roof I think he would have won. Misti did have the most eye catching design though it would last no more than a few months actually outdoors.


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## Lonsdale73

paulrbarnard said:


> If he had finished the roof I think he would have won. Misti did have the most eye catching design though it would last no more than a few months actually outdoors.



I did think it was going to look as hideous as his drinks cabinets and I'm never going to see daisy Dukes in the same way ever again however I concede it did look better than expected. But was it - what was her phrase? - "actual, proper jointing"? I'm not so sure it was. I don't think it was best on the night and Misti wasn't best throughout the series. In summing up at the end, I had to laugh at the bit about "winning despite being different" when I'd argue being different meant they were a shoe-in from the first program.


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## Chris152

Woodworking is not just joints - they're nothing more than a means to an end. It's like reducing writing to spelling and punctuation. Obviously, if they're bad things fall apart, but to reduce woodworking to that is very narrow and of little interest in the broader picture of woodworking. It's many things.
I also think the attention in some posts above to gender is silly.


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## Lonsdale73

Chris152 said:


> Woodworking is not just joints



That's as maybe and to some extent was covered by some entrants and the skill challenges which included turning, carving and marquetry. However, to liken it to other series, e.g. Bake Off, for a final I would be expecting bit more of a showstopper, one that demonstrated 'actual proper' skills rather than driving in screws everywhere. To put it in some kind of perspective, when I got into woodworking, I watched a lot of videos by the likes of Steve Ramsey and April Wilkerson. A lot of April's stuff is clever, practical and it looks good - her output, that is. However, and I have to admot I've not watched any of her videos for a while now, everything was pocket-holed together. Pocket-holes are another means to an end, some like them, some don't and I found them a great help when I was getting started. But is it woodwork? 

A lot of it comes down to perspective; if end product is all that matters then the process is incidental. For me, it served as that means to an end, it gave confidence to tackle more demanding projects and develope my woodworking skills. I no longer use pocket-holes. And ignoring the glaring misnomer, when I tune into a program labelled Britain's Best Woodworker then that's what I want to see. Gender/race/orientation entirely irrelevant.


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## Spectric

akirk said:


> none of these programs are aimed only at the enthusiasts - they have to be of interest to the general public or they won't be made...


That is the problem, they need a dose of reality tv added to attract the general public who may have no interest in actual woodworking. I would think the application process filters out anyone who is too normal, potentially boring or lacks some weird traits so the likes of Mr Milliard and Mr Sefton need not apply. 



Chris152 said:


> Woodworking is not just joints - they're nothing more than a means to an end.


True and false, no point in having a load of perfect joints if nothing is actually made but how do you judge someones ability or skills, what are you accessing them on. If it is just a final product then you need to aim for simple joints so as to complete the task in the short period of time allocated, but if the emphasis is on skill then joints become important but you are not really given enough time so at the end of the day your main task is to entertain the audience. Perhaps during the application process you need to produce something you have made to show you have the skills given enough time.


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## recipio

The brief was a bit misleading. What is a 'Garden Shed' anyway ? I think Misti won because the judges liked the seating although it was not specified in the brief. She also kept the joinery under control by screwing things together. I think Radha came a cropper by trying to use proper joinery in a fairly large structure. ?


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## Chris152

Spectric said:


> True and false, no point in having a load of perfect joints if nothing is actually made but how do you judge someones ability or skills, what are you accessing them on.


I guess that's the key question - what are the criteria for judgment? I'd have thought there could be many, quite different, for assessing how good a woodworker is. It's not just the making, but also the thinking. They really don't spell out the criteria properly in the programme, and they're inconsistent, so viewers (us) start applying our own. Which is kind of interesting, we all have our own criteria/ emphasis and it gets us animated about what we're seeing.
ps That said, there is such a thing as fitness-for-purpose, and if you're building a stool that's going to collapse when you sit on it, you've got a problem...


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## TRITON

Lonsdale73 said:


> Who do you think?


I think Misti.

This has been an interesting thread, all full of replies that fail to understand design and make are two separate entities. And mainly coming from people who take 2 years to make a one drawer cabinet* 

* I have to say i fall into this category too


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## Stigmorgan

I agree with the majority in that Radha probably should have won, had he ordered timbers to the size he wanted rather than laminating and having to wait for the glue to dry then he would have had time to do all the jointing he wanted to and get the roof finished and secured down, with a completed structure he may well have won, having said that though I actually really liked Misti's build and based solely on the final was a deserved win but I agree with a previous comment in that it won't last long in the garden, those plywood connectors for a start would be lucky to survive a single year in our wet climate


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## MARK.B.

Methinks there will be a considerable amount of slightly used clamps on sale very soon


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## AJB Temple

Can't see this series being recommissioned in this form.


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## scooby

It definitely needs an overhaul. Either less people (or get rid of more than one at a time) and allow more time for each project.


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## Lonsdale73

MARK.B. said:


> Methinks there will be a considerable amount of slightly used clamps on sale very soon



They've already been donated to some charity so not all bad.


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## Droogs

MARK.B. said:


> Methinks there will be a considerable amount of slightly used clamps on sale very soon


Too late, the sale of all the equipment was conducted by Felder/Hammer a couple of months ago, in fact one of the members here got one of the combination machines, I think


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## MARK.B.

Could be clue that there will not be a second series


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## Jameshow

Just catching up on it!! 

These three woodworkers are the best in Britain.... Sorry guys someone has to tell you ...


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## Woodernhift

Misty good designer, but a woodworker? Her final piece looked good but single screws into end grain! I’d give it a couple of weeks of use at most before it fell apart.


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## Padster

Once I stopped thinking of it as a woodworking show, I did enjoy it, and watched with my wife and daughter - as many have said it got treated a bit like bake off, but less coherent. Rahda did have the best joinery skills, but that wasn't really the brief in the end. Design concepts in wood is perhaps a better definition of what it was and Misty had a lot of the best designs, and was able to turn those designs into concepts or prototypes that if then given to a more skilled carpenter/joiner/woodworker could have been turned into viable products.

It was watchable and I'd watch a second season but would prefer ... a slightly different title, different presenter and different judges, but if they didn't change I'd still watch, it was ok entertainment.

Padster


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## grumpy brit

Snettymakes said:


> The truth is that the shows name does not tally with what they're actually judging. It should be "Britains Best Wood Maker". They focus a LOT on design rather than quality of workmanship.
> 
> Of course, they're trying to cater to as wide an audience as Bake Off does, and I applaud them for that. I would love to be watching a hardcore woodworking version, but the audience would be tiny and I'd rather see more people getting interested in the subject.


There is You tube for the more hardcore "woodworker". As you say, this series is for a wide audience, many of whom wouldn't know fine workmanship if it stood up and bit them on the bum. I hasten to add that Im not sure that I could have done any better than any of them, I did see the fatal flaw in Mistys project, but having said that, cutting all those angles, hats of to her.


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## Stigmorgan

grumpy brit said:


> There is You tube for the more hardcore "woodworker". As you say, this series is for a wide audience, many of whom wouldn't know fine workmanship if it stood up and bit them on the bum. I hasten to add that Im not sure that I could have done any better than any of them, I did see the fatal flaw in Mistys project, but having said that, cutting all those angles, hats of to her.


I think there were a couple on the show early on that everyone here would have been better than.


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## Slinx

Jameshow said:


> Who is he? And what are his wood working credentials?
> 
> Not exactly Paul sellars, Chris tribe or Peter sefton... Let alone the many many bespoke craftsmen up and down the country....
> 
> Cheers James


That’s a great idea. Real woodworkers setting achievable tasks, who can actually comment on techniques used- not just the design


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## Nelly111s

For all those in this thread who think the title of the programme is wrong, spend 3 minutes watching this video …Mission statement

or even if you’re ok with the title, if you’ve ever had a corporate job.


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## MorrisWoodman12

Several people have said it needs different judges. Well how about our own @Peter Sefton for one?


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## Droogs

As long as it's not Jeremy Broun


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## Peter Sefton

MorrisWoodman12 said:


> Several people have said it needs different judges. Well how about our own @Peter Sefton for one?



Ha Ha, It's so subjective, not sure I would want all the public scrutiny  

Thanks for thinking of me though

Cheers

Peter


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## Cooper

Chris JH said:


> It was a good pilot and I hope it makes it to a second series. If it does I think the participants will be better prepared and the there will be a step change in the technical quality of the projects. It is always going to be a mix of design and execution skills and those that excel in both will progress. I hope we will meet some really exciting makers that can inspire new generations of skilled woodworkers.


I agree but less of that dreadful presenter please and more shots of their hands doing stuff and not their faces. They have bits of equipment I'd never seen before, for example the electric chisel when they whittled and the digital angle marker version of a sliding bevel, they could have highlighted. It would also have been interesting to see how Misty marked out the plywood fixings/joints on her pavilion. I suspect that a lot more of actual work and detailing is done or suggested by the technicians.
I was pleased that Radha didn't win, though without a doubt he is the better crafts person. He made a real mess of some of his M&Ts. He should have made much better use of the materials and his chunky dowels should have been his construction of choice, given the time constraints and could have been a real feature of his design. (Were they suggested by the technicians?)
Why didn't she (I forget her name) use a stapler on the wigwam? After she split the first slat she must have known nailing it would be a disaster and the first thing you would see. Or she could have piloted the holes.

I could never go on a show like that though, as I'm exhausted after a couple of hours in my shed and need a nap and I would spend far too much time working out the details of my design.


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## Spectric

All I can say is that the winner was ok with ideas and designs but he was not so good at putting them into reality, so really a good woodworker should have both and design for manufacture. Also that other younger guy who did the lion, I think he was more skilled but just managed time badly so in another show, different judges he could easily have won.


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## SteveH2

At the end of the day we are never going to properly see what the contestants can do or see a polished result because these programs (whether this, or Bake Off or Sewing Bee......) never give someone a realistic amount of time to do the job ?


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## biskit

I would have liked them to have used only hand tools not Powertools. As I did for the first half of my carpenter and joinery life.


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## Dynamite

Rhada should have won IMO. The enemy of the series and the builds was time!!!

Kind Regards..........Rob


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## Smike

Most of what I had to say has already been said. I think Rhada should have won as he produced the best woodwork. 

In the workshops I’ve worked Misty wouldn’t be allowed in, with those loose clothes and scarves etc

It made a change from endless cooking programs though. 

Be good to have a proper woodworking show ...


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## thetyreman

hopefully there's no second series, it was awful


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## cisamcgu

I rather enjoyed it. Mel tried her best but the judges just sucked the life out of it.


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