# HDMI connections



## Argee (11 May 2006)

Anyone know anything about HDMI connections between a DVD player and TV? My friend has recently bought an LG HD-ready flat panel and an LG HD DVD player. He has wired it up using composite connections and separate audio and all was well. He then bought a pro-quality HDMI lead and connected the DVD to the TV using just that lead. The picture is superb, but the sound is a real crock! It doesn't seem to matter what settings we use on the DVD player, the sound is crackling (like it's peaking), both on 48 and 96KHz, on Bitstream and PCM.

I guess it can only be one of three things - the DVD player HDMI socket is duff, or the lead, or the TV, but is there anything else we haven't thought of? The TV doesn't seem to have a PCM setting, but the DVD player is supposed to be matched to it. Changing the video resolution has no effect on the sound quality (no surprise there), other than to appear to change the range of crackle. It's very disappointing for him that, having bought the latest technology, it gives a brilliant picture but such poor sound.

He's now managing by running the picture via HDMI and the sound through an amp, but the whole idea was to cut down the number of connections and peripherals needed. We'll take the DVD player back tomorrow (as it's the easiest option - the lead was special order due to the length), but any further suggestions/tests/thoughts most welcome.

TIA

Ray.


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## mr (11 May 2006)

It does sound rather that you may have a dry joint on one of the connections somewhere, hopeflly in the lead because that would be easiest to replace. The thing to do if you can is swap out parts of the equation until you remove the problem hence identifying where the problem lies. 
It may also be I guess that the sound output level is peaking as you say it sounds like. Are there any input / output level settings you can adjust? 
Mike
reading your post again it does appear that the problem may lie in the tv end of things. Just a thought how close is the power connector to the audio input? Ive found that unshielded leads in close proximity can cause a crackling sound.


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## Neomorph (11 May 2006)

HDMI is basically both video and audio in pure digital form. I've no doubt that the majority of audio/visual buffs will tell you that using the HDMI for picture and putting the digital audio through an amp is the best way as the tv's audio is always going to be worse than a dedicated amp. Oh and contrary to belief the coaxial digital audio lead will give a warmer signal than the optical lead. I didn't believe it until I tried it myself.

One question... is any audio actually coming though at all or is it just crackling garbage. If it's just crackle it sounds like (no pun intended) that you are trying to listen to a digital signal through an analoge input. I've not tried the audio part of my plasma tv as I'm also one that uses a seperate amp for the audio soI've not come across your problem (in fact I have no speakers attached to the plasma at all).

Oh... just thought of another question... what are the make and model numbers of the dvd and tv.


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

mr":2d9px1oo said:


> Are there any input / output level settings you can adjust?
> Mike


We've been through the whole card on both the DVD output settings and the TV sound/input settings with no effect. The lead clicks home nicely in the back of the TV (rather like a USB connector), but hasn't got the same "feel" when connecting to the DVD socket. That's one of the reasons we're going to try and swap the DVD player first - the other reason is the routing of the lead, which is going to be a pain to replace. If we can swap the player and the fault persists, the lead is next - followed by the TV, I suppose  What a caper!

Ray.


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## Neomorph (11 May 2006)

How much did the guy pay for the HD-DVD player? I'm personally waiting until this whole BluRay/HD-DVD battle has settled down before buying one as it's not exactly clear as to what the supply of DVDs in HD is going to be yet. It's good old Betamax/VHS all over again. :roll:


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

Neomorph":3dywes0q said:


> One question... is any audio actually coming though at all or is it just crackling garbage.


Audio either comes through intermittently, or all the time with a crackly hiss, or just a crackle. On applause, it sounds like rain mixed in. Difficult to describe, but it sounds like digital audio does when it peaks.


Neomorph":3dywes0q said:


> Oh... just thought of another question... what are the make and model numbers of the dvd and tv.


The TV is a plasma *LG RZ 50PY10* and the DVD player is *LG DNX190MH*

Ray.


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

Neomorph":3dspfj91 said:


> How much did the guy pay for the HD-DVD player?


About £90, I think.

Ray.


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## Neomorph (11 May 2006)

Ray tell your mate to forget the TV audio... it's pretty basic at best....



> Audio
> Output: 15 W x 2
> AVL
> Mono/Stereo/Dual
> ...



Doesnt do any dolby at all by the sounds of it. Better to put it through an AV amp as it will do a lot more. What amp has your friend got by the way?


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

Neomorph":3pkxgzzl said:


> What amp has your friend got by the way?


Can't remember the make, I think it's either Sony or JVC, but it's a very large, dedicated AV amp and it really cranks it out. 

I guess that - in the end - we'll dispense with the composite in favour of the HDMI for picture and run the sound through the amp, as you suggest. 

Bloody annoying, though, especially as he was sold the DVD player on the basis of perfect DVD reproduction via the HDMI connector.  :evil: 

Ray.


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## RogerS (11 May 2006)

Ray

You could also try posting on AVforums. Those guys are pretty good.

Roger


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## JimNoble (11 May 2006)

My first accusatory point of the finger would be at the HDMI cable. 

Any chance of borrowing another one (preferably a different make) to try? 

Definitely worth trying avforums and a google search in case there is a known incompatibility between the two bits of equipment...

Jim


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## mr (11 May 2006)

Would suggest possibly posting the question on 
http://www.blue-room.org.uk/
You will almost certainly get an answer there its a professional AV forum. You have to join to post iirc but its worth the effort.


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

Thanks for the suggestions - I've joined Blue Room forums and posted there. Can't borrow another cable, special order due to length. Could always try a shorter one to see if any diff, I suppose.

Thanks again!

Ray.


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## mr (11 May 2006)

So I see
be warned though they can be a cantankarous bunch, in fact one or two of them are the most miserable sods Ive ever had the misfortune to meet. Having said that they are in the minority and there is a wealth of expertise there and some generally friendly and helpful souls.


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## Argee (11 May 2006)

mr":2kduolxn said:


> ... one or two of them are the most miserable sods Ive ever had the misfortune to meet.


I should feel right at home!

Ray.


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## mr (11 May 2006)




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## Neomorph (11 May 2006)

Argee":2tyiqzmi said:


> Neomorph":2tyiqzmi said:
> 
> 
> > What amp has your friend got by the way?
> ...



Ray he's not losing out if he is using a proper AV amp... Hell, using the TV crappy sound is like buying a Jag and then putting a Mini engine in it... it would work but totally suck. I think you will find that the only people who don't use seperate amps are people who don't have them. I have a Denon amp and it's bloody amazing 7 channel surround compared with my top of the range plasma that can only do stereo.

The main reason for the HDMI cable is the digital video signal. As DVD is digital anyway a composite signal goes from digital at the player, converted to analogue through the composite lead and then converted back to digital at the plasma. Each conversion loses some video quality.

Now your HDMI lead never gets converted as it goes digital all the way. This means you get the picture shown on the plasma as it's meant to be.

BTW, how big is this guys room if he has a 50"? There is a good seating calculator that gives you your best seating distances. It surprised me how close you need to get to show true HDTV performance.


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## Argee (12 May 2006)

Neomorph":1y92iqib said:


> Now your HDMI lead never gets converted as it goes digital all the way. This means you get the picture shown on the plasma as it's meant to be.


This was *exactly *the reason for getting the HDMI capability. The reason he's so miffed is not that the sound is inferior to the amp, but that it's _totally _rubbish. I know where he's coming from - if something should work, then it should and if it doesn't, let's do something about it.

I get the point about the TV set not being able to knock out sound comparable with the amp, nor did he expect it. What he did expect was that the sound would be as good as the TV on its own, but it simply isn't. His wife won't get involved in turning on three appliances and twiddling with three remotes just to watch a DVD, so it was also an attempt to simplify matters there and - for that reason also, doubly disappointing.



Neomorph":1y92iqib said:


> BTW, how big is this guys room if he has a 50"? There is a good seating calculator that gives you your best seating distances. It surprised me how close you need to get to show true HDTV performance.


The room is purpose built as an entertainment room and previously housed a 50" back-projection set. It's fully surround-sound and properly lit too. DVDs play large part of the viewing and Sky HD arrives early June.

Thanks for the link to the calculator - I was surprised too!  

Ray.


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## Argee (12 May 2006)

Exchanged the DVD player for another new unit - same problem exists, so another cable is next. Should've been first, I know, but the son got it and insisted that it would be OK - professional standard supplier, etc., etc. We'll see what a new lead does, then if it persists, the TV goes back!

Ray.


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## Neomorph (12 May 2006)

I'm guessing that what's causing it is a too high a signal level is coming out of the dvd player which will not change by replacing model for model. If this is the case replacing the tv and/or cable won't fix it. I had the same problem with my Pace cable tv box but at least you can reduce the volume on that.

Still it seems bad when you realise this isn't even conflicting makes as both are made by Lucky Goldstar (yes that's what the LG stands for and the reason they changed to LG :wink: ).


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## mr (12 May 2006)

Apologies about the blue room - you appear to have been right royally ignored there which I find odd unless the place has died since I last looked in (which was some time ago).


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## RogerS (12 May 2006)

Ray...have you asked the place that you bought them from? They are the first line of support (and legally obliged to boot). Also as both are LG devices you might get (slim chance I know) some help from LG?


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## Argee (12 May 2006)

mr":1g9qdo68 said:


> Apologies about the blue room - you appear to have been right royally ignored there which I find odd unless the place has died since I last looked in (which was some time ago).


No worries, *mr* - perhaps the question was just too low-tech for them? Anyway, I've been ignored at better places than that! 

Ray.


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## Argee (12 May 2006)

Roger Sinden":px9g2qjh said:


> Ray...have you asked the place that you bought them from? They are the first line of support (and legally obliged to boot). Also as both are LG devices you might get (slim chance I know) some help from LG?


That might have been an option, Roger, had he bought them elsewhere than a large Currys shed. We had absolutely no problem changing the DVD player this afternoon and put them on notice that if another cable didn't solve it, then the (£2.5K) TV was next!  I strongly suspect that it'll be the cable, but we'll see.

Thanks for the various responses, everyone. I'll report final outcome, although that might be after a couple of weeks away in the sun. 

Ray.


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## Neomorph (12 May 2006)

Argee":2atmsddv said:


> That might have been an option, Roger, had he bought them elsewhere than a large Currys shed.



Make sure it's sorted within 30 days of purchase as Currys insist on repairing after that time. When I had a video recorder go duff and had repair after repair done (often involving over 4 weeks at a time) I asked for a replacement and they refused stating that after 30 days they only had to repair it (which they never did in the end). 

After several attempts at fixing it they tried to fob me off saying that stereo meant the sound came out of both speakers. When I told them it was mono they denied it. In the end I threatened them with Watchdog and Trading Standards and they gave me my money back reluctantly. 

I've not bought anything from their chain of stores since (Dixons, Currys, The Link).


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## RogerS (12 May 2006)

have you thought of doing a factory reset of both if such an option is possible?

This text taken from the LG blurb on your plasma screen suggests that it should be automatic...

Integrated remote provides simple control of your system: HDMI has built-in intelligence that can automatically configure your system on demand. When utilizing this feature- with the click of a single button- your remote control tells your HDMI-linked system which components to turn on or off to view a DVD, listen to a CD, or watch cable TV.

But then again reading the manual for your DVD player seems to suggest that not all HDMI devices are compatible.....so I reckon still that your best bet is to speak to LG and ask if the two devices are compatible.

They both need to be either on Bitstream or PCM. Does your TV support Bitstream? 

On a slightly different tack, you will get a better picture if you avoid composite feeds. The DVD has both component and RGB (SCART)...much better


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## Neomorph (12 May 2006)

Oooer Roger... I never knew HDMI did that. You learn something new every day! Oh and they arent using composite as the digital video is going through the HDMI lead. This is *loads* better than scart or composite.

I haven't got anything connected via HDMI yet as I haven't upgraded my cable tv to Telewest's TVDrive as it's apparently pretty tempramental at present. I'm waiting until midsummer when I'm hoping the early adopters will have nagged the engineers to fix most of the problems. Until then everything goes through component from my AV amp.


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## RogerS (12 May 2006)

Neomorph":z9jvinv7 said:


> I haven't got anything connected via HDMI yet as I haven't upgraded my cable tv to Telewest's TVDrive as it's apparently pretty tempramental at present.



Temperemental? You call that temperemental?? You should have a Hummy 9200....now that's what I call temperamental...lockups nearly everyday. It strikes me that the closer TV and AV get to digits ...which is where they are heading then featuritis sets in with the boxes...and because the various specs are either badly written/vague/have holes in (delete where appropriate) then things like MHEG will continue to cause no end of problems that the equipment vendors will struggle to fix. BRING BACK ANALOGUE.

And could well be at the bottom of Argees problem.

EDIT....Ray, a quick peek in AVforums seems to point the finger at either too long a cable or poor quality. www.bettercables.com seem to be their 'Dure-edge'...so maybe your gut feel was right all along :lol:


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## Neomorph (12 May 2006)

Roger how about this for a list of probs...

Loses recording and hides them on the hard drive requiring a reformat.
Hangs when pressing remote button.
Reboots itself multiple times.
Loads of duff boxes requiring one customer to have three boxes in two days.
TVDrive is painfully slow changing channels, both when it is recording and when it isn't.
The series link seems to be hit and miss, one series will record fine, and another will record every second episode.
Some manual recordings just don't record.
Recordings have squeaks and blips in the audio.
Menus leave large black blocks on the screen after closing them.

I could go on but that would be pointless. Would you believe even the installation engineers think this system has been deployed too early and that customers shouldn't be charged for a system that falls over so frequently. 

I think that all of the new technology that is coming out now is pretty buggy and fails to work right. I have a DVD recorder with a computer network socket and I thought "WOOP, I'll be able to watch stuff over my network and remotely program the recordings like they do in Japan" but what happens??? They cripple it for export and all it allows you to do is remotely change the names of the recordings. :evil: 

Mind you I do love my setup as I am currently sitting on my sofa and composing this on my plasma TV while downloading TV episodes from the states well in advance of them arriving here... oh yeah and in better quality than what I get over my cable box at present as they have more HD programming over there.


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## RogerS (13 May 2006)

Neomorph":31o7ig5y said:


> I think that all of the new technology that is coming out now is pretty buggy and fails to work right.



Totally agree with you. However I see an even bigger problem and that is because this is consumer electronics they are market driven to bring out new products on, roughly, a six month cycle. So all effort goes towards developing the new products and zero towards fixing bugs in the existing products. At least in the PC world there was a broadly generic underlying product and so things gradually converged towards making a stable platform (although over a period of many years)

Better let Ray have his thread back :wink:


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## Neomorph (13 May 2006)

Roger I thoroughly agree. I've had a Pinnacle Showcenter for a while now and the software updates add new stuff but routinely forget to fix existing bug in even the original deployment abilities. I keep installing the new software and then get annoyed at the bugs and then go back to software I installed over a year ago as it is much more responsive and table.

... and yeah... oops and sorry for the hijack.


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## Argee (15 May 2006)

A correction - the TV is LG 50PX4D - but no matter, what is important is that it does NOT have a decoder to handle PCM! I've written to LG to get this confirmed, but shan't hold my breath. It is, therefore, no flippin' wonder that the sound was awful via HDMI. 

Hardly seems worth the trouble changing the cable now, does it? I haven't passed this news along yet, but I know that he'll be using his AV amp for the audio anyway, so I guess it's a case of enjoy the better picture and forget about a single-lead setup. 

Thanks again for all your thoughts and suggestions. I've learned quite a bit along the way. 

Ray.


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## Neomorph (15 May 2006)

LOL... don't worry about it as stuff these days are so damned complicated they take time to figure out. Hell I still haven't totally sussed out my Denon AVR-3805 amp and I've had it over a year now. Like for instance the channel for my Showcenter will only appear if I switch to DVD and then to vdp (the channel I chose for the Showcenter). They are two completely seperate inputs but one doesn't work without the other heh.

One thing that's confusing me... He bought this HD-DVD player for a reason I'm guessing... but where is he getting the disks to play in it? Or does the DVD player have a scaler in it to improve the standard DVDs?


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## RogerS (15 May 2006)

Glad you've got to the bottom of it..even though not the ideal solution you were looking for.

I also have a funny with my Sony plasma.. when I installed it I used AV socket 5 for the DVD player..component feed (or RGB..same difference) and labelled AV5 as the DVD. All worked well for many months until recently when I now have to select AV4 to see the DVD! Now I've not plugged the cables over...I've not done anything to the TV. I've scanned through the available set-up options on the TV and can't see any settings that will cause this...and yet I have to select AV4 to watch the DVD. 

At first glance the picture seems just as good and so I'll live with it but it's damned annoying not knowing WHY :twisted:


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## Argee (15 May 2006)

Neomorph":330yycrq said:


> One thing that's confusing me... He bought this HD-DVD player for a reason I'm guessing... but where is he getting the disks to play in it? Or does the DVD player have a scaler in it to improve the standard DVDs?


Yes, it's supposed to have a scaler (and it's definitely a better picture), but after all this caper, it may well just have a thicker rubber band for all I know! 

Ray.


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## Argee (15 May 2006)

Just when I thought I'd got to the bottom of this flippin' saga, I get a very swift reply from LG:

_"Could we please identify where the problem is here. Does the TV experience problems when the DVD is not connected? Does the DVD work properly when connected to another TV?
The TV has an integrated digital detuner and HDMI connections should give perfect quality sound, in theory there should be no problems handling the sound input.

Yours Sincerely,
LG Electronics UK Helpdesk
0870 607 5544"_

So, according to the "horse's mouth" there *is* a decoder built in. Well, the new cable is awaited with interest, but the airport beckons, so it'll have to wait. BFN! 

Ray.


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## Neomorph (15 May 2006)

Well I can see one mistake in the LG message... What the heck is a digital detuner!!! :roll: I'm guessing he means a digital decoder.


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## RogerS (15 May 2006)

or upscaler?


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## Neomorph (15 May 2006)

or upscaler?

Nah, hes saying the TV should be able to decode the digitil audio coming inbut used detune instead of decode.


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## Argee (4 Jun 2006)

On return from our holiday, a new cable had arrived, so we plugged that in and all was well - for about 5 minutes! Turns out it's the TV that's at fault - probably a dry board - so that'll get replaced on Monday (hopefully), so all should finally be well. 

My friend's just had Sky HD installed and the difference in picture quality is spectacular. Now he needs a splitter box to feed both the Sky box and the HD DVD into the TV, which has only got *one *HDMI socket - a lesson for when I get round to upgrading.

Ray.


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## RickT (6 Jun 2006)

Have a look at www.keene.co.uk they have all sortd of goodies, some cheap, some :shock: !!!

It might be an option for your mate to use RGB from the DVD player and HDMI from the Sky box. If and when I get Sky HD, that's the way I'm going.

BTW. has your mate seen some of the media players out there, like http://www.snazio.com/Links/Net%20DVD%20Cinema(new).htm (I've got one) the output is stunning, but the DVD player is pants. There is a lot of HD material available on the Net. 

Just a thought..

Rick...


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## ecdrum (22 Jan 2007)

I have exactly the same problem with LG 42PX5D TV and the same model DVD (190MH) as you describe. I have changed the DVD player and the cable with no effect. The problem is therefore either an incompatability (seems unlikely as they are both current LG models) or a fault in the HDMI circuitry in the TV. As you describe the analogue audio is perfect when taken direct from the DVD to a Bose Lifestyle audio amp. I have asked LG technical dept for a diagnosis but as yet no response from them.


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## Argee (22 Jan 2007)

Replacement TV cured the problem. Dealer was reluctant, though.

Ray.


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## Newbie_Neil (22 Jan 2007)

Hi ecdrum

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil


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