# Marking Knife



## Woodmatt (23 Dec 2015)

Hi All,

Can anyone recommend a good marking knife and should it be single or double bevel blade.

Thanks

Matthew


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## Gerard Scanlan (23 Dec 2015)

Pauls Sellers recommends a couple of marking knives. A Stanley one and more recently a Swann Morton one that looks very nice. Luckily you can order both in the UK. The Swaan Morton reseller won't ship outside the UK.  
But anyway if Paul Sellers likes them they must be both good. He talks at length about them on his blog.


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## Mike.S (23 Dec 2015)

I did have an Ashley Isles marking knife but it was only single bevel and therefore difficult to use both handed i.e. left and right handed. I treated myslef to a Pfeil marking knife, which has a double bevel and a nice point to get into tight areas and am very pleased with it.

If I was buying again, I'd either buy the Pfeil or the Swann Morton type scalpels with replaceable blades.


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## AndyT (23 Dec 2015)

I think it comes down to personal preference. It's like asking people to recommend a pen, or a pair of socks. We each put a different value on price, durability, sharpness, edge retention, appearance, fit to the hand, and indeed, style of edge. There are lots of choices out there, all someone's favourite.

That said, I still like the Japanese knife with a single long point which I bought from Axminster a few years ago.

I also like one I made from a broken needle file.


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## Peter Sefton (23 Dec 2015)

My favourite are Swann Morton No 3 handle with 10A blades for veneer cutting and general marking out and No 4 handle with 26 blades for scribing dovetails. 

We also use AI left and right handed knives the Veritas spear point striking knife but I find the both a little more time consuming to keep really sharp. 

This is a short article I wrote a few years ago about my experience of knives in the workshop.

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... sefton.pdf


Cheers Peter


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## Jacob (23 Dec 2015)

Gerard Scanlan":2pkoybxa said:


> Pauls Sellers recommends a couple of marking knives. A Stanley one and more recently a Swann Morton one that looks very nice. Luckily you can order both in the UK. The Swaan Morton reseller won't ship outside the UK.
> But anyway if Paul Sellers likes them they must be both good. He talks at length about them on his blog.


"Marking" knife is a bit of a misnomer. 
Sellers says: "Knives for woodworkers are often called striking knives or layout knives because we strike and lay out the cut lines of shoulders, cut around hinges and other hardware and trim and fit veneers and thin or small sections of wood to size."
In other words they are not for _marking_ as such but are for marks which need _cutting_. 
Most marks are better done with pencil or scribe point. Trying to do everything with a "marking" knife can make things really difficult!


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## GLFaria (23 Dec 2015)

I bought one of these from Dieter Schmid.
At first I wondered wether it might be uncomfortable to use, but at least for me it is fine. True, I don't se it a lot.

G.


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## Droogs (23 Dec 2015)

I use my wilkinson sword made sgian dubh with a single bevel very good it is too


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## undergroundhunter (23 Dec 2015)

I use the Stanley model that Paul Sellers uses, I love it, the blade sharpen up real good and last forever (I'm still on my 1st blade 2 years down the line). It just fits me, I did try a Swann Morton with 10A blades but found it too flimsy for me, I also tried a single bevel job but just plain didn't like that. Horses for courses.

Jacob is correct, I only use my knife across the grain or on end grain (dovetail layout) everything else is either pencil or marking gauge. The exception to this rule is when fitting hinges/hardware then I mark all the way around with a knife.

Matt


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## Mark-numbers (23 Dec 2015)

very easy to make one out of a hacksaw blade and grinding wheel or belt sander. you can make both left and right hand very quickly - Masking tape makes a good handle.


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## John15 (23 Dec 2015)

Swann Morton No.4 scalpel.

John


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## Benchwayze (23 Dec 2015)

Mark-numbers":25z3oqe4 said:


> very easy to make one out of a hacksaw blade and grinding wheel or belt sander. you can make both left and right hand very quickly - Masking tape makes a good handle.



+1 
I lost mine, so I use a Stanley knife. Maybe I should get to making another from a machine hacksaw blade! :mrgreen:


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## Peter Sefton (23 Dec 2015)

Machine hack saw blades are excellent, my mates in the trade who are veneer cutters all use them, bound with masking tape or leather if they are posh.

Cheers Peter


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## Jelly (23 Dec 2015)

I'm a fan of the Swann Morton scalples too... But, I did have a non-replacable blade scapel I liked that I kept in my lab, unfortunately someone spilled acid all over it, and it rapidly ceased to be a scalpel.

If I could find another it would make a perfect scrbing knife, taking a very fine edge, but rather stiffer than the replaceable blade ones.

I'm interested in the Swann-Morton PM40 & PM60 scalpels for much the same reason, being pathologists dissection instruments they're built to be much more robust than the main range, but still have replaceable blades.


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## Cheshirechappie (23 Dec 2015)

I've tried several over the years. My first, and still the favourite, is a Joseph Marples like this one from Toolnut - http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/measu ... Knife.html - that I bought from Alan Holtam's Old Stores Turnery near Nantwich a long time ago. It's robust, so it'll do delicate and it'll do lean on it when you want a deep trench for a chisel start. The steel is tough enough that the point never breaks off, but hard enough to take a lasting edge, and it sharpens easily. It does about 90% of my marking knife work. For the odd occasions when it won't get into somewhere tight, a scalpel has always done me.

Spear point knives are very fashionable these days, I think on the grounds that you can transfer dovetail marks from tail to pin board on both sides of each tail. Fair comment, but that's only a small proportion of marking knife work, generally (unless you make nothing but dovetailed boxes), and that's only for through dovetails anyway. Falling victim to fashion, I bought a Faithfull spear point knife last year (I'm far too tight to pay the thick end of £50 for a Blue Spruce one) - it costs a few pennies more than the Marples. It seems OK, though it's a bit too thick to get between really close dovetails. It's nice and light, comfortable in the hand, and does everything else well enough.

I have a couple of Japanese knives from Axminster. As you'd expect, they hold their edge very well, though I find them too thin to hold comfortably (much prefer the wooden handles of the Marples and Faithfull), even with a draughting tape 'handle', and since I've already got knives that work, I haven't invested the time to make wooden handles for them.

Almost anything can be made to serve - pocket knife, chisel end, whatever. I think Paul Sellers has demonstrated making one from a redundant small kitchen knife. Should do the job perfectly well.


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## Andy Kev. (23 Dec 2015)

I use this Pfeil marking knife:

https://www.classichandtools.com/acatal ... ives-.html

It's design means that you naturally hold it like a pen. It just needs sharpening up once in a blue moon on and I can't fault it.


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## MusicMan (23 Dec 2015)

I have used the Pfeil for years and love it. I find scalpel blades too flexible for this (though I have them also), and as Jacob says it is in effect also a small chisel. Yes, of course you can make them also but I do recommend the double bevel.

Keith


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## bugbear (23 Dec 2015)

(originally posted to Woodcentral)







It's just a piece of machine hacksaw blade, with ground out recesses to allow access for honing. Sharpening is only on one side, and both ends are sharpened on the same side.

Thus, being double ended, one end does the left hand tail, the other the right.

You can make the middle part (that you hold) more comfortable with anything from a few turns of tape (easy) to cocobolo scale held nby brass rivets (fancy)

BugBear


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## MusicMan (23 Dec 2015)

Good design! I am not going to cut up my cocobolo basset horn for the handle though!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Dec 2015)

I originally posted this article on making marking knives about 10 years ago, and updated it in 2009.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... tails.html

I recommend HSS jigsaw blades for making knives since they will not lose their temper when grinding, and they hold an edge so well.

This is what you can make ..






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Benchwayze (24 Dec 2015)

Peter Sefton":39x11k7w said:


> Machine hack saw blades are excellent, my mates in the trade who are veneer cutters all use them, bound with masking tape or leather if they are posh.
> 
> Cheers Peter



I am posh! I used some chagrin for mine. Partly why I am upset over losing it. Maybe it will turn up one day when I move my bench for a sweep-out! :lol:


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## Peter Sefton (24 Dec 2015)

Benchwayze":2pca8hhn said:


> Peter Sefton":2pca8hhn said:
> 
> 
> > Machine hack saw blades are excellent, my mates in the trade who are veneer cutters all use them, bound with masking tape or leather if they are posh.
> ...



Chagrin :!: You are very posh John even talking in french, we call it Shagreen in Worcestershire

Happy Christmas John

Cheers Peter


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## ED65 (24 Dec 2015)

Mark-numbers":2htrvrj6 said:


> very easy to make one out of a hacksaw blade and grinding wheel or belt sander. you can make both left and right hand very quickly - Masking tape makes a good handle.


Very low-tech, I love it! I'd at least throw together a quick handle but simply wrapping the steel can work well.


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## AndyT (24 Dec 2015)

bugbear":173mz5vj said:


> (originally posted to Woodcentral)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks for that. I made one of these so I could mark skinny London pattern dovetails, for which it works well, but had no idea where I saw the design. It started as a blade in a folding diy knife.


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## Benchwayze (24 Dec 2015)

Peter Sefton":3hk03re5 said:


> Benchwayze":3hk03re5 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter Sefton":3hk03re5 said:
> ...



What was I thinking of?  I'll say sharkskin next time! :lol: 
Cheers Peter. Merry Chrimbo! And all that.. Hic! :ho2


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## Woodmatt (24 Dec 2015)

Thanks for all the replies everyone.I have now ordered the Stanley as recommended by Paul Sellers but will be giving the Hacksaw and Jigsaw blade designs a go in the very near future,like tomorrow.I very suitable way of spending xmas day.


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## YorkshireMartin (24 Dec 2015)

A scalpel works very well I've found. 

I have a crown marking single bevel knife too but when I tried to sharpen it, the burr produced was so extensive, it took me ages to get it off. Metal is like stilton and the burr just kept flipping from one side to another. Once I'd managed to deburr and hone, I marked my first line, knife slipped and the tip embedded itself in my finger, right below my nail. That sucked. To top it all off, I didn't find it all that accurate as you can't see what you're doing on fine lines.

For rough work I'll just use a fresh stanley blade but scalpel for precision.


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## Graham Orm (24 Dec 2015)

This is mine. An old hacksaw blade with a nice bit of maple scrap for a handle. Works well, had it for a couple of years now, superb.


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## CHJ (24 Dec 2015)

This one made (in 2009 I think) is still going strong although it does not get a great deal of use these days.



<<Clicky pic.


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## DuncanA (24 Dec 2015)

GLFaria":2v4w5cnh said:


> I bought one of these from Dieter Schmid.
> At first I wondered wether it might be uncomfortable to use, but at least for me it is fine. True, I don't se it a lot.
> 
> G.




This looks uncannily similar to the blade that fits in my marking knife! May need to bear that one in mind in case I ever need a replacement blade (and am too lazy to improvise some other piece of metal to fit).

I don't know if that's what this tool was originally designed for - an adjustable knife blade seems a bit un-necessary - but my Grandpa had two of these acorn brand tools sharpened to a spear tip. After using a traditional single bevel/one-direct type until now, I've got to say I'm a convert for these. The thumb screw also makes a nice finger rest!


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## rafezetter (24 Dec 2015)

Well seeing as we are doing a show and tell, here's one that I made with the how to link below for any lurker who may be interested.






http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/newly-made-marking-knife-t86770.html?hilit= marking knife

Since then though it's been double beveled for left and right.


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## AndyT (26 Dec 2015)

DuncanA":3p4zwe5b said:


> I don't know if that's what this tool was originally designed for - an adjustable knife blade seems a bit un-necessary - but my Grandpa had two of these acorn brand tools sharpened to a spear tip. After using a traditional single bevel/one-direct type until now, I've got to say I'm a convert for these. The thumb screw also makes a nice finger rest!



Duncan, according to old catalogues, your knives were sold for mount cutting, ie cutting the bits of card to surround a picture before it goes into a frame. I have a similar one which I also sometimes use as a marking knife, though it doesn't have a fancy badge like yours.

See this thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/retractable-marking-knife-t85594.html

I use mine the other way round, with the thumbscrew at the top. That means I can trip the sharp point inside the sheath while clamping well away from the sharpened tip, nice and safe when not in use.


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## Gerard Scanlan (12 Nov 2016)

I recently ordered a Narex marking knife, it holds a good edge and only has a bevel on one side so it is perfect for cutting veneers too. For left and right handed use. Workshopheaven sell them in the UK.


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## Jacob (12 Nov 2016)

"Marking' knife is a a misnomer. They are no good for marking as such unless you want an indelible mark. I think this was done by the foreman on some jobs - taking marks from the rod to just one side of the component - the marking round done with a pencil by the bench hand. This is my only explanation for often finding old stuff knife marked on just one side.
Other than that they are for cutting the very few marks which actually need a cut edge - DT shoulders being the obvious one. But pencil is the main tool.


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## Racers (12 Nov 2016)

I have a Japanese one single bevel that I reground the tip so I can use it for right and left.

I find knife lines more accurate on small stuff, where you need less than a pencil width of error to make a noticeable gap.
Big stuff is much more forgiving to a millimetre or two of error. 

Pete


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## Jacob (12 Nov 2016)

Racers":3gbfwybr said:


> I have a Japanese one single bevel that I reground the tip so I can use it for right and left.
> 
> I find knife lines more accurate on small stuff, where you need less than a pencil width of error to make a noticeable gap.
> Big stuff is much more forgiving to a millimetre or two of error.
> ...


You might do better with a scribe point - they do a very precise line (deep or shallow to suit) but don't skate off like a knife.

Where the trad stubby 45º ish marking knives are good is for shoulder joints and similar (where needed) you cut the line with the knife point then cut the v groove for the saw, with the whole edge, like a chisel. Two quick slashes against the square.


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## RossJarvis (12 Nov 2016)

I've got a single bevel (v point) Japanese knife. The flat side makes it excellent to help mark cross members when fitting to frames. I wouldn't buy one which doesn't have the flat. Wooden handles and round handles just get in the way.


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## Racers (13 Nov 2016)

Jacob":1w9m2f88 said:


> Racers":1w9m2f88 said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Japanese one single bevel that I reground the tip so I can use it for right and left.
> ...



Points follow the grain much more than a knife that cuts across the fibers. 
A single bevel knife gives you vertical cut that is the absolute measurement and a bevel in the waste, a point will leave a V half in the waste and half in the workepiece. 

Pete


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## Jacob (13 Nov 2016)

Racers":3dilw7uz said:


> .
> Points follow the grain much more than a knife that cuts across the fibers.


No they don't if you use them properly - you have to trail them over the surface as you do with a marking gauge


> A single bevel knife gives you vertical cut that is the absolute measurement and a bevel in the waste, a point will leave a V half in the waste and half in the workepiece.
> 
> Pete


The v is so tiny as to be irrelevant. A knife tends to skate off in a direction of it's own and is difficult against a straightedge, which is why they are best used only when necessary - e.g. DT and some other visible shoulders.


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## Racers (13 Nov 2016)

Jacob, in my experience pins follow the grain knives cut through it.

I guess I must work on smaller stuff than you do. 


Pete


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