# It's going up next week.



## skipdiver (31 May 2008)

After a lot of umming and aahing,gnashing of teeth and deliberation,decided to build my workshop out of blockwork mainly because my bricky mate had a slot for next week and was coming to start my utility extension on a building notice.Building control have scuppered that idea because of the proximity of my drains to the external walls,so i need to get permission from water authority which is a drawn out expensive business.I digress.

Instead of wasting the opportunity of my mate having some free time(he is very busy but had a job fall through) i thought why not get him to build my shop?Will cost me more in the long run but will be up and running much quicker.So i thought i would pick a few brains as to size and layout.

Last one i had was 6mtsx5mts but i thought this was a little too square.Was thinking more along the lines of 4ish by 7ish.Any thoughts on that anyone?Would also appreciate any thought on door/window sizes/placement,internal layout.

The last one didnt seem to work right,always seemed to be moving stuff.Any thoughts or ideas on anything shop related would be welcome.

Just realised a lot of folks have gone to the woodwork show but not starting til wednesday anyway.Off to price up skips and mini diggers now.

Will post pictures if i can figure out how.

Thanks.


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## 9fingers (31 May 2008)

For a 30 sq m workshop 3 x 10 is too narrow (that is what I have but no option) You found 6 x5 too square so yes 4 x 7.5 sound about right.
You might just as well go for the 30 sq m internal limit without planning permission (in most cases)

I opted for no windows on grounds of security and flexibility to put cupboards anywhere once I had the place built. Not everyones choice but I'm happy with it. Minimal noise escapes and thermal performance is good. No risk of flying lumps of wood breaking DG units either.

Doors: at least a door and a half wide. double doors practical but potentially weak on security. I have a full width door hinged off a half width door .

Locate the door in one corner. Corners can be sources of wasted space so committing one to a door helps.

Posting Pictures?
I thought there was a sticky somewhere but I can find it.

Up load your picture to an online repository such as photobucket and paste in IMG links into your message text.

To see what it should look like, pick an existing thread with pictures in the last post in the thread. Hit reply and then you will see what the raw message looks like.
Then cancel the reply.
Try it for yourself and use preview to check it is working ok.

HTH

Bob


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## Woody Alan (31 May 2008)

My workshop is 3.5 m x 11m and I dream of a squarer workshop. with stuff down each side it's not that easy to move about. If I had a square shop I would consider putting the workbench in the middle. 4m would be my minimum but would look at 4.5m unless you don't intend to put anything much down one of the walls.
all that said I must confess to having too much stuff in my shop at the moment (read junk) 

Alan


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## Mr Ed (31 May 2008)

My workshop is 5m X 7.5M, which is pretty much the size and shape you are thinking of. I find the size and shape perfect for the work I do, but I can imagine it would get tight if you did a lot of large pieces.

A couple of pictures to give you an idea of the layout possible with this size/shape;






















I lose a little space on one side due to the staircase (this is a first floor workshop) but the elevated position seems slightly better for security to me. I have 4 windows on 3 sides and would say that whilst you must consider security, get all the natural light you can.

As others have said, and as you can see on the pics, a squarer shape allows you to put the saw and bench in the middle which makes a very effective working area I find.

Hope that helps, Ed.

(and hope the pictures come out; not done it before!)


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## skipdiver (1 Jun 2008)

Thanks for the replies so far,it's helping me decide on what i want to achieve.As i said before,last shop was 6x5 and with saw bench in the centre it seemed to me that i could do with it a little longer.Because of the 30 sq mt rule,extra length comes at the expense of lessening the width.Got to decide size soon as it is going up on wednesday.Got a couple of days longer to decide on doors and windows while the footings and oversite go in.


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## Michael7 (1 Jun 2008)

My workshop is 5M x 5.5M and the square shape can be a bit of a pain. I find that when I bring in an 8 x 4 sheet I'm always trying to squeeze past it. I don't think I would have the room to cut up a full sheet with a table saw so I use a circular saw and guide which I'm happy enough with. I do have though, a 4 foot wide door thats in a corner of the shop which proves practical


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## 9fingers (1 Jun 2008)

One further thought Steve, ceiling height: make sure that you can swing an 8 x4 sheet corner to corner vertically without hitting the ceiling (or the lights!)

So that is 2.75m minimum which puts the design into pitched roof not flat territory.

Bob


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## skipdiver (1 Jun 2008)

More food for thought thanks.Will be a pitched roof but was going to go 2.4 plus wallplate making ceiling height 2450.Had that height at my last shop and it was a bit of a pain with 8x4 sheets so 2750 sounds bette.Put the braces on top of the wallplate last time but will raise them up on this one.


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## skipdiver (3 Jun 2008)

Got a skip ordered(£152.00 :shock: ) and a mini digger.Just had a phone call off bricky mate Mark and it's full steam ahead tomorrow.'Twas august 2006 that i sold my house and with it the workshop.Two years is a long time without one.Photo's will follow when i can find a three year old to show me how to do it.


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## skipdiver (4 Jun 2008)

Got the footings dug and the oversite levelled today.Took lots of pictures.Will try and download/upload? them later.


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## Digit (4 Jun 2008)

Try Tinypics Skip, it works for me and I'm a computer moron!
You need the 640 X 480 size. If you try it and get stuck, shout!

Roy.


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## skipdiver (4 Jun 2008)

It'll have to wait til tomorrow now Roy.Shifted a mountain of stuff today and then SWMBO made me do some work on the camper van for upcoming weekend away.Off to bed now,got 2.5 cube of concrete coming at 8am


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## skipdiver (5 Jun 2008)

Footings concreted by 9.30.Got a lorry load of blocks to barrow in now.


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## 9fingers (23 Jun 2008)

Hey! Skipdiver

How is you workshop coming on? Still waiting for WIP pics

We need something to pick holes in :lol: :lol: 

Sorry I meant make constructive comments on!

Bob


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## Digit (23 Jun 2008)

Stick with the first Bob, it's more fun! :lol: :lol: 

Roy.


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## skipdiver (23 Jun 2008)

Bricky had to go off on another job.He came back today to put in some strengthening pillars.Will try and put some piccies up tomorrow.Never done it before but will figure it out.At the moment it looks like a breeze block bunker.I'm very busy with work at the mo but am hoping to start on the roof this weekend.


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## 9fingers (23 Jun 2008)

I know just what you mean.
It really is not on when the day job gets in the way of important stuff like building workshops.!

I look forward to your pics.

Bob


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## skipdiver (23 Jun 2008)

There's supposed to be a recession but i am busier than ever.Been without my shop for nearly 2 yrs and it's so close now, i can smell the woodshavings.


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## Digit (23 Jun 2008)

This week I noticed a local builder advertising in Tesco's, first time that has happened in years.

Roy.


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## Gary (24 Jun 2008)

skipdiver":3m8iymv8 said:


> There's supposed to be a recession but i am busier than ever.Been without my shop for nearly 2 yrs and it's so close now, i can smell the woodshavings.



Too busy for the pictures then? :wink:


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## skipdiver (24 Jun 2008)

shall i put it here?


[/img]






or here?





went for this plot,you should be able to see the setting out lines
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bobcat ready to go on day 1





mark trimming footing corners by hand
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mark filling apprentice keirans barrow with soil for the skip





end of day 1,footings dug out
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and overspill as skip was full.digger was shut down remotely by hire company by phone,nifty security device





9.30 day two,footing concreted
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blocks and bricks loaded out,early finish as footings still wet





1.5 days later,underground bricks and blocks laid and walls half way up.
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view of door opening.decided to have two 27" FLB doors





where we are at today.up to wallplate.after much deliberation decided to go for lots of natural light in the shape of two 6'x4' windows.sod the burglars.
[/img]


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## 9fingers (25 Jun 2008)

Steve, 

Is that a recognised way of doing the pier? it does not seem to be bonded in the the rest of the blockwork.
When I've done piers in the past I've always had problems working out the bond and yours seems a neat way out. Also putting it on the outside saves it getting in the way when fitting out the inside.

Good to See the pics
Bob


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## skipdiver (25 Jun 2008)

It is bonded with profiles bolted to the wall.Because it was all a bit of a rush,i never had it completely worked out in my head what i wanted.Had two single ones internally last time and they got in the way.I told my mate to build it and i would decide later.Would have been cheaper if i knew where i was putting them at the start as we could have just used brick ties as it went up.Cost me an extra £50.00 for the profiles as there are two single pillars on the back wall but at least i know it's safe.I have a mate who is a roofing contractor and when tiling a garage roof that had been built without pillars,the whole building twisted and racked and collapsed with two of his men on the roof.HSE said it was because there were no pillars in it.

On another note,just popped home for something and a bite to eat.Good job i did as there was two people in my drive with clipboards.Turns out they were planning officers.Someone has complained and they wanted to know what i was building,it's intended use and more crucially,the measurements.It passed with flying colours to the millimetre.Going to put a sign on the roof saying sorry but it's staying put.Got a good idea who reported me so they are off my christmas card list.


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## Gary (25 Jun 2008)

skipdiver":1hean55f said:


> Got a good idea who reported me so they are off my christmas card list.



I hope it wasn't the neighbour who left you with the attractive view of the unfinished block work on their extension/workshop when they a view a brick wall. :lol: 

The wonders of permitted development and the envy of neighbours. Well this is one battle you've won. Workshop is looking good, can't wait to see further installments.


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## Shultzy (25 Jun 2008)

How come there is blockwork under the bricks in the far right corner? What type of floor are you putting in and I think the DPC is supposed to be 6" above ground level.


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## skipdiver (25 Jun 2008)

Gary,the neighbour who left me with the unattractive view is the guy i bought my house from.He owned both semi's and rented them out.He put both on the market and took next doors off when i bought this.I could have bought next doors with a ready built workshop but it has been very badly built and was a bit too small.The landlord built that shop next door when he lived there to renovate a Triumph Stag apparently and got it in and out through my garden and into a door which has now been (badly) blocked up.

Shultzy,the blocks under the bricks are 7 newton breeze blocks suitable for underground work.The dpc is on top of the engineering bricks.I am having a concrete sub floor laid on visqueen and sand blinding,followed by a chipboard floating floor.The concrete floor will finish level with the dpc which as you point out is not the correct way of doing things but as there are no regs on these things and i wanted t keep it as low as poss,we decided between us that this was the way to go.My mate Mark knows his onions and assures me everything will be fine.

I could dig out more and get the finished floor the required 150mm down but i don't think it is necessary for my needs.


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## Shultzy (25 Jun 2008)

I'm surprise at your construction, and I'm sure there are regs.

The normal way of construction for suspended floors is :-

lay 9" thick engineering bricks up to ground level (supports floor joists)
lay concrete sub-floor level with bricks (easier to tamp)
lay two 9" thick courses of bricks and put DPC on top
lay blocks to outside edge 
lay floor joists on DPC slightly short of the blocks to stop moisture transfer.

You need to make sure no damp gets to the floor.


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## skipdiver (25 Jun 2008)

No,there are no regs as it doesn't come under them.You can do anything you want on this kind of building due to the size and distance from the house.I'm quite happy with it.

I wont be putting any floor joists in.Concrete floor overlaid with jablite and v313 board.There will be a dpc under the concrete and a second one under the jablite.My mate knows all the regs by heart and has built everything from a barbie to the local Tesco superstore.At the end of the day it is a workshop and not a dwelling.


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## OPJ (25 Jun 2008)

Looks like it's coming along well. Your neighbour will soon change his tune once he realises he needs a "favour" from your new workshop! :wink:


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## Anonymous (26 Jun 2008)

> My mate knows all the regs by heart and has built everything from a barbie to the local Tesco superstore


Well it looks like he built the barbie alright. The local Tesco looks like it will be a little small though! :wink:


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## punkrockdad (26 Jun 2008)

Did the planning chaps measure the inside or outside of the building?


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## skipdiver (26 Jun 2008)

They never measured anything.The BCO was a girl named Kerry who i know from several jobs i've worked on.She started to measure the building and i said it's exactly 30 sq mts internal and she just stopped measuring.She also said theres no point measuring distance from the house as i can see it's more than 5mts.They asked me what type of roof i was having and i said pitched roof and it will be less than 4mts.They also wanted to know it's intended use,to which i replied workshop and storage.They took some photo's,wrote some stuff on a form and started to leave.I asked them if they were going to arrest me and they just laughed.

I think because she knew i was in the building trade,she obviously concluded that i knew the regs and left it at that.I don't expect to hear any more from them.

When i do the roof,was thinking of putting a sign on it saying STAGE ONE or SORRY FOLKS BUT IT'S STAYING UP.I know it was the couple directly behind me as they were the only ones who asked mate Mark what he was building.They have an absolutely pristine garden and my new shop throws a shadow across it for most of the day now.Oh well,not my problem.


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## dennis (26 Jun 2008)

Steve

I thought that a building had to be under 30cubic metres not 30square metres not to need building regs hope I am wrong.

Dennis


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## Tusses (26 Jun 2008)

neighbors hey ! you think yourself lucky - I have 6 sets of next door neighbors :shock: some of them are right busy bodies too !


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## Tusses (26 Jun 2008)

dennis":38tn5h2a said:


> Steve
> 
> I thought that a building had to be under 30cubic metres not 30square metres not to need building regs hope I am wrong.
> 
> Dennis



no - its 30 sq m . and officially its the footprint afaik


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## 9fingers (26 Jun 2008)

Tusses":1uoipjgg said:


> dennis":1uoipjgg said:
> 
> 
> > Steve
> ...



Actually 30m2 internal floor area

Bob


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## Anonymous (26 Jun 2008)

skipdiver":inzz9r6d said:


> .I know it was the couple directly behind me as they were the only ones who asked mate Mark what he was building..



Mark should've said "Three storey gymnasium" that'd have put the wind up em.

:lol:


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## Tusses (26 Jun 2008)

9fingers":36c8mgya said:


> Tusses":36c8mgya said:
> 
> 
> > dennis":36c8mgya said:
> ...



maybe I was reading an out dated copy that the council sent me then !

good to know !

I always thought you could have loads of bay windows that dont mee the ground (dont know what the propper name is) then gain some shelf/storage space


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## skipdiver (26 Jun 2008)

It is 30 sq mt internal floor area,nore more than 4mts high from the highest part of the surrounding land and more than 5mts from the house.It has to be substantially of a non combustible material(if not then it has to be at least a mt from the boundary) and cannot be used as a habitable building or for running a business.

Meet all those criteria and you can pretty much do as you wish.


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## Gary (26 Jun 2008)

skipdiver":425okty2 said:


> cannot be used as a habitable building or for running a business.



Out of interest what do you do for a living? :wink:


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## Jake (26 Jun 2008)

Cubic meters are used in the planning permission legislation, Tusses - that's possibly what you are thinking of.


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## Tusses (26 Jun 2008)

Jake":uo5xa3ha said:


> Cubic meters are used in the planning permission legislation, Tusses - that's possibly what you are thinking of.



no - I think cubic m is more for permitted house extensions.

I had a leaflet for the council - and it stated 30 m2 so I phoned up and asked if that was the foot print ? could the roof over hang. They replied - that is the foot print , and the roof can over hang !

maybe it was the way I asked the question !


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## Jake (26 Jun 2008)

Tusses":1j74v2cs said:


> Jake":1j74v2cs said:
> 
> 
> > Cubic meters are used in the planning permission legislation, Tusses - that's possibly what you are thinking of.
> ...



Oh sorry, I got you post mixed up with Dennis's.

The provision is:

_CLASS VI

Small detached buildings

1. A detached single storey building, having a floor area which does not exceed 30m2, which contains no sleeping accommodation and is a building - 

(a) no point of which is less than one metre from the boundary of its curtilage; or

(b) which is constructed substantially of non-combustible material.

(OR)

2. A detached building designed and intended to shelter people from the effects of nuclear, chemical or conventional weapons, and not used for any other purpose ...

(OR)

3. A detached building, having a floor area which does not exceed 15m2, which contains no sleeping accommodation._


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