# Bowl gouge recommendation?



## mikec (31 Mar 2013)

Hi All,

I am investigating the purchase of a good quality bowl gouge/s.
I will be using it for bowls in the 6 - 15" range so am leaning towards a 1/2" gouge. 
I have deep V(Record 1/2") and U(Sorby 3/8") gouges and prefer the U shape.
I like to have a fingernail grind and a standard grind.
How cost effective are the double ended gouges? Any benefit other than space saving over two single ended gouges?
What happens to a TiN coated gouge once it is resharpened and the initial coating on the bevel is ground away? Does the coating in the flute have any real effect?
How effective are the cryo steels?

I realise this is to a great extent a personal preference situation but would appreciate comments from members who have experience of any of the above.
Cost is of secondary importance to good quality. I don't mind paying for special steels or coatings if they are of real benefit other than marketing puffery.
Handles are of secondary importance at this point.

Regards,

mikec


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## henton49er (31 Mar 2013)

I have Crown, Sorby and Henry Taylor gouges. 

One of my Crown gouges is the cryo version and it definitely lasts longer between sharpenings than the standard HSS gouges (but not the three or four times as long as they try to claim). The shape of the flute is the same as their non-cryo version, so there is no difference in use apart from the less frequent sharpening

I use a 1/2" fingernail grind bowl gouge for the bulk removal of material. I then finish off with a traditional grind gouge inside a bowl or shear scrape with the fingernail grind gouge on the outside of the bowl, in each case with freshly sharpened tools. 

I find my 1/4" bowl gouge gets a lot of use for finishing, even in the larger bowls, as it can take such delicate cuts.

I have no experience of double ended gouges as I have never invested in the handles.


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## CHJ (31 Mar 2013)

In my opinion the personal skill at handling the tool and the appreciation of design criteria are far more relevant in turning than the difference in the upper end tool steels.

I suspect that difference in performance of the 'exotics' over 'standard' HSS is an order of magnitude less than that encountered between differing woods, even differing specimens of the same species, I've never had the opportunity to use any long term enough to prove otherwise to myself.

Personally I think it would take a very experienced and very prolific turner to be able to determine any real benefits or differences between them. Even then the experiences of a similarly experience and skilled turner may be totally different if they used a different sharpening regime.

I'm only an amateur occasional turner but in 8 years I've yet to wear out a tool with sharpening, I can detect a difference in cutting edge longevity between different brands of supposedly the same steel, down no doubt to the heat treatment control or lack of it, but I would not expect any of the exotics to give any greater difference.

Personally I take the jump to using TCT tools and change of technique to be far more relevant to my type of turning than the marginal improvements I can detect in coated or improved formula tools when tried at demonstrations.

There again my Stanley and Record planes with a reasonably sharp edge do all the planing I need and I can't justify the purchase of Cliftons let alone the Lie-Nielsons etc. 

Edit: Sorry just realised that all the above is of no real use or relevance to your original request.


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## Spindle (31 Mar 2013)

Hi

With regard to what happens to the TiN coating when sharpened:

The TiN coating on my Sorby tools is characterised by a golden yellow coating which runs the whole length of the tool so sharpening just exposes a new TiN to base metal, (ground area), interface. I'm afraid that in all honesty I don't notice any difference in the performance of my Sorby TiN coated bowl gouge compared to a 'basic' one.

Regards Mick


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## KimG (31 Mar 2013)

I have a Henry Taylor superflute 1/2 bowl gouge that is now about 30 years old, it is pretty short in the flute but still has some time to go before retirement, I recently bought a Crown Cryo 1/2 bowl gouge (last September) I can say pretty much with certainty that you would not be able to tell the difference as far as edge holding goes, they are both very good and Chas' comment about the type of timber having more of an effect is spot on.

Much more important is to buy a quality name, Crown, Sorby, Henry Taylor, Axminster, are all excellent quality HS steel tools and will serve you well, after that it's mostly a case of hunting for the best price.


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## mikec (31 Mar 2013)

Thanks guys for all your replies.
No Chas I don't think your comments are irrelevant as I am leaning to the idea that most of the"New" stuff is more to catch woodturners, much like the fancy new flyfishing gear.
I suspect that I will end up with a 1/2" gouge with a fingernail grind and my smaller 3/8" gouge returned to a straight across grind for finishing cuts.
I was really wondering if buying a double ended gouge was cheaper than buying 2 single ended gouges. Further research shows that it can be either case depending on the maker.
I fully agree about buying from reliable manufacturer, all the tools I have bought new have been Sorby, Crown, Ashley Iles etc. I did get a number of Record tools when I bought my lathe second hand.
Certainly the type of wood has far more effect on my turning than any of my tools. I really like yew but have recently turned some treen for my son using brown oak and sweet chestnut for the first time. Getting a clean finish on the chestnut was a learning curve.

Regards,

mikec


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## cambournepete (2 Apr 2013)

My personal favourite is my Crown Ellsworth gouge.
I find it excellent for most of a bowl, and other things as well.
The only thing I don't find it to be good at is the bottom of the inside of a bowl, where a steeper angle of cut is easier to use.


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## Aled Dafis (2 Apr 2013)

I almost exclusively use my Crown Ellsworth gouge with a 40(ish) degree grind for bowl work, just using a 60degree traditional ground gouge for the bottom of the inside.

However, I've just watched Glenn Lucas' DVD (what an amazing bowl turner!!) and he only uses gouges with a parabolic flute in his workshop - probably the Superflute variety but I'm not sure. If you hang on a few weeks, he's due to launch his own series of signature tools, ground especially for bowl turning - and boy is he efficient!


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## chipmunk (2 Apr 2013)

If money is tight then why not buy unhandled gouges and turn your own handles?

Jon


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## tekno.mage (5 Apr 2013)

In my own experience, Ashley Iles tools seem to last the longest between sharpenings, followed by Crown, Sorby and all the rest as much of a muchness. I've not got any of the specially coated ones so can't comment on these.


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## mikec (5 Apr 2013)

Hi All,

Thanks for all your replies.

I went to Yandles today and looked at most of the gouges on offer. After discussion with turners at the show it was the general opinion that I would not really benefit from buying any of the expensive steels for the amount of turning I do (1 - 2 days a week). I don't mind having to touch up an edge more frequently than a professional turner so I have bought Crown Standard HSS gouges that were the most cost effective solution, especially given the 15% discount during the show.

The Ashley Iles double ended gouges worked out more expensive as I would need a handle to cater for them. The fact that they were only half the flute length of a single ended gouge was not a deciding factor as they would last a long time at my level of usage. The other major brands were all slightly more expensive for the equivalent gouges to the Crown.

I now have a set of gouges that will last me the rest of my turning career and with a profile that I like.

Regards and best wishes to all those who took the time to reply,

mikec


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