# old wood planes



## wallace (4 Apr 2012)

Hi all, I got these planes about a year ago from a car boot. For the princely sum of £12 I put them under a bench and forgot about them untill recently. There are loads of differant profiles. Just wandered what people thought of them.






Mark


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

They don't do a lot for me I'm afeard  but there are other members who'll be falling out of their seats at the sight of that lot :lol: - Rob


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## Dodge (4 Apr 2012)

same here I'm afraid - not a real friend of the Woodies - too many memories of using them as an apprentice!


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## AndyT (4 Apr 2012)

Well, I think you should get them out from under the bench, put them into working order and use them!
They are under-appreciated by many people, so regarded as almost disposable. They won't make you rich, but they can make you happier.

It's hard to be certain from the picture, but it looks like you have the standard trio of bench planes - jack, try and smoother. You also have a plough, and possibly a sash fillister (at the back) - but it might be another plough.

In the box you have at least one rebate plane (at the back with the nice snail shell escapement) and some moulding planes. They are most likely to include hollows and rounds (the commonest and most useful moulding planes) and possibly some sash moulders and some beads.

You will need to get the rust off the irons and sharpen them, and make a new wedge or two, but it's surprising what can be rescued with some turps, linseed oil and tlc.

There are lots of restoration threads on here - for example, this was a basket case I put back into use, probably similar to yours: https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/rescuing-old-wooden-planes-t51614.html

Edit: that's not a rebate plane, it's a moulding plane where someone has modified the escapement by carving a chunk out of it.


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## jimi43 (4 Apr 2012)

I wasn't sold on them either until this little skew rebate came my way....






...and the plough planes are lovely too...






One clear obsession of these wooden marvels is without doubt mark research. It's really amazing how much history can be gleaned from the Internet...rather like tool genealogy!

Wipe with boiled linseed oil to restore.

Have fun my friend...

From a convert!

Jim


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## Cheshirechappie (4 Apr 2012)

Blimey - this forum is nothing short of amazing!

I'm in the process of refitting the tool-chest at the moment (among several other jobs), which has meant temporarily evicting the contents. Among them are several moulding planes, some inherited from a long-passed away grandfather, some 'aquired' over about twenty years. Looking at them, I thought I really ought to have them in working order if they are to earn their place in the chest, and some of them need a really good clean. Hmmm, thinks I, must post a question on the forum asking how best to clean wooden planes.

Blow me down if AndyT doesn't answer the question before I've even asked it! Andy - are you psychic? Anyhow - thanks very much - just what I needed to know!


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## AndyT (4 Apr 2012)

Happy to help! Do put pictures of them up if you need any extra hints, or identifications. And bear in mind that I use boiled linseed oil on planes which I regard as being for use, and not especially precious, on the grounds that its use was a standard part of maintenance when wooden planes were the norm. In museum circles, its use is frowned on as it does darken over the years. If you have any real museum pieces, I believe that the current consensus is to use microcrystalline wax (eg "Renaissance wax").


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## wallace (4 Apr 2012)

Hi I had some fun today cleaning and sharpening a couple of the planes. I quite like them, I think I might be getting drawn to the dark side.


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

jimi43":xsiavljf said:


> Wipe with boiled linseed oil to restore.
> 
> Jim


Blimey Jim, I've just shared a bottle of decent red vino with SWIMBO and in my blearly state just before the wooden hill, I read that as '_wipe with blood to restore'_
Bed! :lol: - Rob


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## Alf (5 Apr 2012)

Well blood sacrifice _is_ often demanded, in my experience. :lol:

S'what I do to clean them up, for what it's worth. Caution though; it's another one of those Slippery Slopes. (Gratuitous shot to follow, 'cos we all like da pretty pictures, right?)


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## wallace (5 Apr 2012)

I spent some time cleaning some of the planes today, they seem to be reasonably local. Newcastle, york and Glasgow. Are there any makers of merit that I should look for. I found a couple with worm flight holes so they got a good squirt with killer.


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## jimi43 (5 Apr 2012)

I really don't want to ask this but can you post some pictures of the marks?

I refuse point blank to admit that I am on any form of slope whatever...no...not me...not that slope! Honest guv!  

Jim


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## wallace (5 Apr 2012)

Hi Jim, yes I'll take some tomorrow. :wink:


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## Alf (6 Apr 2012)

Just a tip for all really, but with moulding planes etc, it's actually a lot more useful for identification purposes to have a picture of the _end_, rather than the side. If it's the end with the maker's mark, so much the better - maker and type identification can usually all be achieved in one happy little package.

That was a Public Service Announcement on behalf of the Dammit You're Showing Us Wooden Planes But Without Enough Information For Us To Get Properly Jealous Aaargh Society.


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## jimi43 (6 Apr 2012)

I could really dislike you lot....especially the head instigator of all things woody and whizzy! :mrgreen: 

I went to a bootfair this morning...only a blinkin' small one...three rows...

I'll show all later! :roll: 

Damn slopes! 8) 

Jim


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## Thomas Hayman (6 Apr 2012)

Don't suppose there are any from Bradford..?


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## wallace (6 Apr 2012)

Heres a list of names either the craftsman or plane makers.
J UNTHANK Sunderland
T NODDINGS KENDALL YORK
S SPALDIN A MATHIESON & SON EDINBURGH
J MILLER I LIDDLE 37 CLAYTON ST
J N RUSHTON
RB
T BURTON A W BURTON
H ROBINSON H WILSON 73 CLAYTON ST NEWCASTLE
W SMITH A MATHIESON & SON GLASGOW
E L SMITH COWELL & CHAPMAN NEWCASTLE
R BELL


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## AndyT (6 Apr 2012)

Well, I seem to be sitting in the chair next to Goodman's "British Planemakers from 1700" so shall I have a look and see what it says about these? [I only have the 2nd edition; the 3rd is better but unobtainable at present; the 4th is promised but some time away yet.]

As a general rule, a maker's name will be in the 'best' position, on the toe. It will only appear once. Anything repeated will be an owner's name, often obliterating the previous owner's name.

I can't see a maker on the plough.

The little grooving plane is by Mathieson of Glasgow, as is the bigger one and some others.

In their time they were the biggest toolmaker in the world - I guess all those Clyde-built ships had a lot of woodwork in them. They survived until 1966, but only until 1900 in Edinburgh, so yours must be between 1863 and 1900.

J Miller was at Clayton St Newcastle from 1859-75.
Cowell and Chapman were at 5 Pilgrim St Newcastle from 1869-80.

The big round that was made in York is hard to read in the picture - could it be "Varvill & Son York"?

If so, it would be somewhere between 1818 and 1840. There were several generations of Varvills making planes in York; the later ones marked Varvill & Sons are quite common, as their output was huge.

The oldest one is the one by Kendall of York - which dates back to 1818-30 ish. The profile looks quite unusual too.

Are you starting to like them a bit more now?


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

Andy, is it the supposed 'difficulty' in setting them that wooden planes are sneered at do you think, or is it that they 

simply seem, 'old fashioned?'

Roy.


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## wallace (6 Apr 2012)

Andy thanks alot for that, I tried doing a bit googling but only really found the Mathieson stuff. I've always liked them just never got round to trying them. Ive had the little coffin one since I was 18. I sharpened it properly today. Do the blades have better quality steel at the front and cheaper stuff forged on?
Mark


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## AndyT (6 Apr 2012)

Digit":2woxqwax said:


> Andy, is it the supposed 'difficulty' in setting them that wooden planes are sneered at do you think, or is it that they
> 
> simply seem, 'old fashioned?'
> 
> Roy.



I think it is just ignorance.

To the non-specialist, all wooden planes look much the same - as people's unfortunate attempts to describe them on eBay prove.
The ordinary working carpenter or joiner doesn't use them, which is hardly surprising - for many jobs using a power router will give a more accurate result for less skill. If it's a repetitive or extensive job, it may do it quicker. It will certainly sound as if it is getting a lot of work done.

But for anyone woodworking to enjoy the process, who prefers to do it slowly and quietly, they are brilliant. They also have the benefit of often being dirt cheap!


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## AndyT (6 Apr 2012)

wallace":lxdok0nk said:


> Andy thanks alot for that, I tried doing a bit googling but only really found the Mathieson stuff. I've always liked them just never got round to trying them. Ive had the little coffin one since I was 18. I sharpened it properly today. Do the blades have better quality steel at the front and cheaper stuff forged on?
> Mark



Yes, the blades are almost always soft iron for most of the length, welded to a bit of relatively precious cast steel at the working edge. You can often see a clear difference in colour and resistance to corrosion.


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## mouldy plane (6 Apr 2012)

Hi from a self confessed wooden plane enthusiast. The plane marked R B, has the look of an 18th century plane. is it any longer than the rest?
As to using wooden planes, I often do in my every day work. Just made enough 1/8 inch cock beading to go around 8 paneled doors this afternoon Wouldn't have dreamed of using machinery as it would have took far longer. I also use wooden planes in my leasure time, and do demo's at MAC timbers to try and encourage other woodworkers to try them if you want more info on wooden planes, check out my website at
http://oldwoodplanes.co.uk/


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

Undoubtedly I am the odd one out Richard as I exclusively use wooden planes, but mostly new ones.
Places like E-Bay and car boot sales may be prolific suppliers, but most are in a terrible condition with mouths far to wide for fine work and with irons that that have suffered serious GBH!
I do find that the old irons seem to be superior to the Record/Stanley types irons supplied as standard though.
The one thing missing from old planes IMO is an adjustable mouth, and once again a wooden plane with an adjustable mouth is much quicker to 
adjust than a Record/Stanley type.

Roy.


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## dickm (6 Apr 2012)

Will start another thread to give more detail, but seeing all these wooden beauties reminded me that about 10 years ago, I bought a Mathieson skew rebate plane from an about-to-be-demolished premises in Peterhead. It's been languishing around since then, but it's now out for restoration. It has Mathieson on the front, and a very curly 17 on the back of the body; it is presumably this one:-
http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/imagesGallery/Mathieson17.jpg

Some general questions.
1. should I try and clean up the brasswork? I've had to replace the brass inserts on the fence "rods", so they are bright and shiny, but the rest of the brasswork is very dull.
2. Anyone know what shape irons should go in the two slots that look as though they ought to have nickers for cross grain work?
3. Should the fence be glued to the arms? There doesn't seem to be any sign of glue on the join, so it relies for location on the bolts through both which would allow some movement out of parallel.

More questions probably when I've got the relevant photos loaded.


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

Taking your questions one at a time Dick....

1. Polishing is, I think something you must decide for yourself.
2. The nickers on mine are about 1 cm wide by 3mm thick and sharpened to produce a 'spike' that produces the 'nick.'
3. On mine they are simply screwed into place, no glue.

Roy.


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## AndyT (6 Apr 2012)

dickm":2isb3mw7 said:


> Will start another thread to give more detail, but seeing all these wooden beauties reminded me that about 10 years ago, I bought a Mathieson skew rebate plane from an about-to-be-demolished premises in Peterhead. It's been languishing around since then, but it's now out for restoration. It has Mathieson on the front, and a very curly 17 on the back of the body; it is presumably this one:-
> http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/imagesGallery/Mathieson17.jpg
> 
> Some general questions.
> ...



I believe that one is a rather rare "combination fillister" - described but not illustrated in Salaman's dictionary - it has a depth stop on each side, so it can be used as a moving fillister or a sash fillister. In other words, it can cut a rebate on the near side or the far side of the work, while referencing from the face side. So I would treat it with care (and a little envy!).

1 - Brasswork - my own preference would be to not clean it. I would not expect even the most careful original owner to have wasted time and effort getting the Brasso out. There are plenty of sad old cases on eBay which have been horribly polished if you want to see what it looks like.
2 - the nicker irons for this will be separate (I think) and probably a mirror pair. Useful picture on eBay of an ordinary single nicker:







(item ref 360431423499)

3 - Don't glue the fence - a bit of movement in the joints is necessary for the adjustment to work. With the ordinary wedged arm style, you only have to get the fence properly parallel when you get it to the final position. The movement in the joints lets you have the fence slightly crooked while you are making the adjustments.


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## AndyT (6 Apr 2012)

Digit":3p2oduhk said:


> Undoubtedly I am the odd one out Richard as I exclusively use wooden planes, but mostly new ones.
> Places like E-Bay and car boot sales may be prolific suppliers, but most are in a terrible condition with mouths far to wide for fine work and with irons that that have suffered serious GBH!
> I do find that the old irons seem to be superior to the Record/Stanley types irons supplied as standard though.
> The one thing missing from old planes IMO is an adjustable mouth, and once again a wooden plane with an adjustable mouth is much quicker to
> ...



Interesting and unusual!

Would I be right in thinking that you like the 'reform' planes by ECE, which give you a wooden body, a fingertip blade adjustment and an adjustable mouth? Still available new for a couple of hundred quid - but Jimi will probably find one at a boot fair for loose change!

This sort of thing:






I'd be interested to know if they are as good as the makers claim, never having handled one.


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## dickm (6 Apr 2012)

AndyT":2ym7me6u said:


> I believe that one is a rather rare "combination fillister" - described but not illustrated in Salaman's dictionary - it has a depth stop on each side, so it can be used as a moving fillister or a sash fillister. In other words, it can cut a rebate on the near side or the far side of the work, while referencing from the face side. So I would treat it with care (and a little envy!).
> 
> 1 - Brasswork - my own preference would be to not clean it. I would not expect even the most careful original owner to have wasted time and effort getting the Brasso out. There are plenty of sad old cases on eBay which have been horribly polished if you want to see what it looks like.
> 2 - the nicker irons for this will be separate (I think) and probably a mirror pair. Useful picture on eBay of an ordinary single nicker:
> ...



Thanks for those answers, Andy. Sounds like the plane was worth the tenner that I think was what I paid for it, but it will be a user, not a seller, at least until I shuffle off this etc.. (it should be nice using a rebate plane without those awful cold metal handles on the 078)
Not sure about the brasswork - the existing stuff is really bad (greeny brown!) and the new brasswork I'm having to make shows it up something 'orrible. On the other hand, too much Brasso would look pretty bad too.
Good point about the fence - I'd been thinking there must be some exotic use with non-parallel fence, but now you say, it's obvious  . Bad enough shifting the fences on a metal plough or even a router.
The dual depth stops were a bit of a puzzle too; still having difficulty imagining how the one on the "wrong" side is used. 
Will have to look out the 3mm gauge plate for a pair of those nickers.


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

I had one at one time Andy, but no, I'm strictly trad now a days. Let's face it Andy the basic layout of both bench and specialist planes remained basically un altered for many years. The users had pretty much perfected the tool, apart from resistance to wear on the sole the iron plane was not, IMO, exactly a step forward.
It does not hold the iron as securely as the wooden wedge, backlash in the adjuster can be a nuisance, larger models are damned heavy and I find that the ability to hold the fore part of a bench plane is easier than the knob of the Record/Stanley types.
Before the Clifton et al users take me to task I confess here and now that I have never had to opportunity to use such tools.

Roy.


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## tomatwark (7 Apr 2012)

As part of my workshop sort out I am going to sell off the wooden planes I have got here and there over the years, for a rainy day project.

I have come to realise that this is never going to happen and they are sitting in drawers gathering dust.

Some just need sharpening, others a bit more TLC and one or two are probably just good for the cutters.

A few have flight holes in them but have all been treated.

My question is this.

When I list them on here what would be the best way for you guys who might be interested.

1 List the few that I thing are the nicest and then bulk the rest up.

2 List them in batches of 10 and let you have fun to see what's in the box.

3 List all 50 odd in one go if someone wants even more fun finding out what's in the box.

Tom


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## AndyT (7 Apr 2012)

tomatwark":k34bny5c said:


> As part of my workshop sort out I am going to sell off the wooden planes I have got here and there over the years, for a rainy day project.
> 
> I have come to realise that this is never going to happen and they are sitting in drawers gathering dust.
> 
> ...



Nice question!

Speaking as one who already has quite a selection but has been known to make room for a few more, I would prefer option 1.
A few years ago I would have preferred option 2, and that would still be a good choice, especially for anyone else wanting to try out using old planes.
The killer in these is the cost of transport - accepting that the market price for a common but useful C19th hollow / round / bead sash mould is around £3-6, posting a single plane doubles that - which may be why so many fail to sell on eBay, but go for much less at boot sales where they can be carried away.
So, if you could use one of the budget carriers and get the box delivered for under £20, option 3 might be the way to go - unless someone nearer to you wants to pick them up.

And btw, Alf is (as usual) dead right with her plea for photos which show the profile and the maker as well as the condition!


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## tomatwark (7 Apr 2012)

Thanks Andy

I know option 3 is really collect only.

I will post pics and makers when I list them.

I am just trying to find the best way of doing this, as although I have a sellers account for Ebay I would rather sell them on here and maybe get a bit less but without all the hassle of sellers fees etc and also more importantly it will give someone a bit of fun seeing what they can make of them and hopefully post pics so I can see what became of them.

Tom


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## AndyT (7 Apr 2012)

Wallace - looking at this plane in your collection:






it can be difficult to visualise exactly what shape it will produce. I just happened to spot a listing on US eBay for a similar shape plane where the seller has drawn in the resultant moulding - in this case a common pattern of architrave, still in widespread use:






I just thought this might help show what work it can do. I don't expect all sellers of old planes to follow suit!


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## Digit (7 Apr 2012)

It's not only a case of 'collect only,' such a quantity is well beyond what many of us could afford to pay.

Roy.


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## tomatwark (7 Apr 2012)

Roy

That is another reason I was asking the question, I know I will get more by selling them in smaller groups or separately but it is also the time it takes against getting rid of them in one go and with my work load at the moment time is a big factor and I need to get the workshop sorted for a large job which is happening from the middle of next month.

At the moment I am moving stuff around all the time to get to things.

It is a tricky one.

Tom


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## Digit (7 Apr 2012)

Fair comment my friend, let us hope somebody has a use for them.

Roy.


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