# HELP! Pine unit stain gone wrong!



## Alice21 (18 Mar 2017)

Hi there  

I had a lovely new built-in pine alcove unit recently put in and asked my decorator to stain it for me in a medium oak colour I bought. He said it was a cheap make and bought a varnish in a brand he likes. I was not home when he applied the varnish and it wasn't the colour I wanted...it was red! He then tried to sand it back and applied my original stain which was a better colour however the finish and edges were terrible. 

My husband has used a palm sander (120 grit and then 240) to try and get rid of the varnish/stain so we can try again however the outcome is blotchy and different shades where the stain has taken (see photo if it attaches)  

Now this is where I get confused about what we need to do as we're total novices at this! Do I apply a stain/varnish/wax? I want something easy to apply that goes on evenly over the patches and is durable. We also think we'll go darker, maybe a dark oak/walnut.

Any advice you can provide will be much appreciated as I've exhausted Google!! :?


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## Alice21 (18 Mar 2017)

Here is the alcove sanded down but still discoloured...what do i do!?


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## Chip shop (20 Mar 2017)

I'm a not really an expert in finishes but the only way I would be able to sort that out would be by painting it, then making a new top in hardwood (probably in oak or elm) to drop over the existing to hide it. I made something similar a couple of weeks ago. It's not finished in the picture and the photo is atrocious, but you get the idea:




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If you look around the forum you'll find nicer examples, but it's the only photo I have to hand.

Where about in Wales are you based?

Cheers,

Ed.


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## transatlantic (20 Mar 2017)

I don't think there is much you can do here. To get into the edges you're either going to have to take the whole thing apart (unlikely as it's probably glued) or spend a LOT of time using a scraper or similar to get into the tight bits.

I'd guess somone could replace it in near enough the same time? or as suggested - paint it.


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## Alice21 (20 Mar 2017)

Thanks both. Painting has crossed my mind but it wouldn't really go with the rest of the furniture..unless I painted it brown. Really wanted to keep it wood looking.
I'm so annoyed with it, it looked lovely before the stain. I'm so very tempted to rip it out, get the carpenter back and tell him to build me another..but I think I'm being slightly irrational (I'm due my first baby Monday..I'm blaming hormones)!!

If I was to attempt to try and make it look more finished than sanded and patchy, would a stain or varnish be better? And would a wood conditioner be needed since I'm no longer on new wood? Or should I try a lacquer thinner on it first to try remove some of the patchiness?

Totally clueless..I've even emailed a local furniture restorer asking for help :-( 

PS - I live in South Wales


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## transatlantic (20 Mar 2017)

Alice21":3i3s5qew said:


> Thanks both. Painting has crossed my mind but it wouldn't really go with the rest of the furniture..unless I painted it brown. Really wanted to keep it wood looking.
> I'm so annoyed with it, it looked lovely before the stain. I'm so very tempted to rip it out, get the carpenter back and tell him to build me another..but I think I'm being slightly irrational (I'm due my first baby Monday..I'm blaming hormones)!!
> 
> If I was to attempt to try and make it look more finished than sanded and patchy, would a stain or varnish be better? And would a wood conditioner be needed since I'm no longer on new wood? Or should I try a lacquer thinner on it first to try remove some of the patchiness?
> ...



First off, congrats on the Baby! .. secondly .. I don't think you're being irrational as it's a bit of a mess right now  Thirdly. It's only a bloody cupboard! no one died or got hurt! 

I'd guess that anything you put on it other than paint (or something as opaque) is only going to emphasize the patchyness. So you really do have to remove it _ALL_ or paint over. No half steps. Even if you try putting on a darker stain, it's going to hilight the patches. Another thing to try would be some low grit steel wool. It will get you a little tighter into the corners and curvy bits.

If you have the option to paint or refit, you may as well take the oppotunity first to apply a darker stain and see just how bad it looks. You may get away with it looking ... rustic? and don't forget you'll be filling it no doubt with all that rubbish you women fill stuff with (candles we're not allowed to light?  ), so it'll likely not be as noticable as you might think.


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## Alice21 (20 Mar 2017)

That actually made me chuckle...yes I do have candles and other 'woman stuff' to put on it to help hopefully distract the eye :-D

And you're right..no one has died. Im just so disappointed in it and it's keeping me awake at night worrying about it. I'm not normally this irrational or teary..honest!

Maybe I'll try a darker stain, see how that turns out. If that fails then I'll have to paint. 

With painting will i have to sand down the unit again or just put a primer on first then buy wood paint? Does wood paint chip or is it pretty durable? As you can imagine I'm now trying childproof my house!


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## transatlantic (20 Mar 2017)

If applying the darker stain to test, and you do opt for painting after, I'd give it a quick sand down before priming, so you'll want to try this test on an inconspicuous or easy to sand spot. Trouble is, it's hard to get an idea of what it will look like without staining a resonably sized area.

With the primer, be sure to match it up with what kind of stain/varnish was used (oil or water based). The paint shouldn't chip off easily as long as you match the products so they adhere correctly.


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## Chip shop (20 Mar 2017)

I'll add my best wishes for the new baby too.

If you decide to paint, why not get your decorator to do it as it sounds like they're, at least in part, responsible for the mess? Surely they can't cock a paint job up?

One thing that's really bugging me in your picture is the cupboard door...where the top rail meets the left hand stile it looks like there's a big gap. Is this the case or is it just a trick of the camera?


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## Alice21 (20 Mar 2017)

Feeling very nervous about staining it again..but not sure it could look any worse than it currently does. Think I'll have to start researching and watching videos on painting over stain. Grrr!

The decorator painted my two living rooms whilst here and done a fab job on the walls, ceilings and skirting etc. I'm so disappointed with the unit though. Not sure I'll get him back to paint it, may try it myself if it's straight forward.

Not sure where on the photo you're looking, i dont think there's any gaps. The door is obviously currently off the hinges and I do have strip lights under each shelf (which have since broke) :-(


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## [email protected] (20 Mar 2017)

the dec shouldnt have sanded it he should have stripped it. That said, modern strippers are terrible and old type strippers especially for this job in situ are strictly controlled so rock and hard place comes to mind though I would still have tried some safe paint stripper on it before sanding. You could probably get a better sanded result by using one of those electric sanders with a point that allows sanding into corners. Also using a plentiful supply of abrasive paper instead of letting it clog and become ineffective. What you have in the pic is more of a distressed look in that wood is sanded on the highlights. Staining this will add colour but it still look distressed. If you dont like "distressed" then it all needs sanding perfectly and to do that you'll need to take approx 1mm off the wood surface with a sander - very possible but very very time consuming and you need the right sander and grade of paper etc or you'll be there for ever. Is it fitted or can it be removed in one piece?


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## Chip shop (20 Mar 2017)

Sorry, didn't want to add to your woes. I guess what I saw was just a remaining dark line of stain.

What staining products have been used on the unit? It kinda sounds/looks to me like there's been either oil based used over acrylic or vice-versa. Maybe there are strippers(behave! :lol: ) that could take the edge off the contrast in the blotches.

If it were me & I wanted a solid timber look; I'd have the lot out and replaced with lipped oak veneered panels, face frames and perhaps solid doors. I reckon it could be done, fitted and finished for ~£1600 +VAT.

PS. MODS: This isn't me touting for business.

Edit: cross posted with Matt above.


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## Alice21 (20 Mar 2017)

I've invested in a palm sander with a pointed extension to use in the corners. I've used 100 grit to 240 grit to try get the stain off and obtain a nice finish but it's not working. I can't get the light pine back or a uniform colour :-(

The unit is built in so furniture restorers won't help either as it can't go to a workshop.

As for products (they're now in shed so I'm taking a guess) a Medium Oak Varnish was put on first which was horrendous and looked red. Not sure of the type of varnish. That was sanded off and a water based Medium Oak Stain was put on. It looked like a rushed messy uneven job so I have tried to sand that off with my new sander and the results are that shown in my OP.

I have looked into strippers but I'm totally lost by what I need. Earlier I bought a sample tin of a darker 'stain and varnish in one' which looks thicker so maybe that will take the edge off and the patchiness won't look so obvious.

Unfortunately with only 6 days to go until baby arrives I'm very short on time and really want to get this unit sorted in some way as I know I'll have no time in the upcoming weeks. Plus I don't want visitors coming over and seeing my living room in such a state! I guess having a new one built is currently out of the question so it's either darker stain or a paint job! :-/


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## AJB Temple (20 Mar 2017)

Stain soaks in. Water based stain soaks in unevenly. You are wasting your time sanding this in situ with hand tools. Your options are: remove it and rebuild, or paint it to match the decor. I would also not be inhaling sanding dust 6 days before having a baby. Good luck 

Don't pay the decorator full whack either!


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## [email protected] (20 Mar 2017)

do you know 100% that all the components apart from the back are solid pine? I'm assuming the backboard is veneered? when sanding with 120 grit how long did you sand for until you changed the abrasive paper on the sander?


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## Alice21 (20 Mar 2017)

I dont know if it's all 100% pine, I'd imagine not. I believe the back and side linings are possibly veneered.
I sanded until the sandpaper looked like it wasn't really doing anything. I've already gone through 3 packs of sanding pads.
I'll be worrying about this bloody unit again tonight and I'll have to try tackle it again tomorrow >:-(


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## [email protected] (20 Mar 2017)

hate to say it but I think you're stuffed with this. If the boards are not solid you wont be able to sand them enough to get them back to a natural colour. If you use a darker stain it will most likely look hideous moreso because you'll be able to see the sanding marks which will be highlighted by the new stain. Previous posters are right - its beyond saving in terms of getting a wood finish so needs painting or start again. Staining highlights whats underneath to enhance it. If underneath is unsightly then the stain will highlight that. DIY stains are the worst type of stains to use - rubbish formula and horrible colours. You could try a safe stripper but thats a nasty messy job and it 90% wont work anyway. You need to reconcile with a painted finish!! lovely farrow and ball colour and eggshell paint. painting is IN, wood is OUT these days :wink:


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## Nelsun (21 Mar 2017)

I doubt painting is the way to go. If you really want to try staining then I'd try a wood dye rather than a stain. Staining will just highlight contrasts whereas a dye will even things out slightly better. I'd paint it though


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## Chip shop (22 Mar 2017)

My advice would be; knock it back with 240g(dry) then 1000g wet & dry ...wet. Give it two coats of primer/undercoat (denibbing between coats with 2000g wet) and finish with some Farrow & Ball(other paint manufacturers are available ) paint that seems fashionable. 

Fitted units look great if they lend a tone to the room, by that I mean the flat boring bits match the arcs and skirting and the details match the furniture (tops & handles)


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## Alice21 (22 Mar 2017)

I bought some white undercoat/primer and I bought a wood paint in the same colour as my walls. As the room is cream with darker wood furniture I didn't want the unit to be white etc so I think I'll just put it the same colour as the room to blend it in and then have a wooden top. 
I bought a darker varnish for the top and put that on yesterday to see if it would cover the patchiness from the stain and it didn't do too bad a job. So today I've to get the courage to apply the primer to the rest of the wood..it's very nerve wracking for me as I've never painted wood furniture and this is a large piece!

Can I ask what the importance is with the wet sanding? I've never done that before either. Do I need to sand between all coads of primer and paint?


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## ED65 (22 Mar 2017)

I have to say, for something like this I can't think of a single situation where there'd be a benefit in wet-sanding the primer with 1000 grit! 

Alice, when you paint you can get away with much coarser sanding scratches than when using a clear finish where you see through to the wood's surface. Even the sanding for varnish only needs to go up to somewhere around 180 or 220 in most cases, and when painting you can get away with final sanding to 120 or 150 without any problem.

And no, you don't need to sand between coats of primer and paint, or between coats of paint. You can sand if you need to remove any drips or runs, if there's a slight roughness for whatever reason (sometimes the grain stands up after the primer is applied, if dust has settled in the drying paint) but other than those things as long as you don't wait to long between coats you shouldn't need to sand again after finishing starts on something like this.


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## [email protected] (22 Mar 2017)

was thinking the same also 1000g gives minimal key for a subsequent finish. That said I dont do painted finishes so am happy to learn different....


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## Alice21 (22 Mar 2017)

Thank you for the clarity. So no need to sand between priming coats and no need to sand between coats of paint unless necessessary.

I'm in the process of putting the first coat of primer on..it's a bit patchy/streaky no matter how careful I am with the brush. Is that OK? I've done a bit of Googling and it says it's OK as it's just a base before the colour. It doesn't look the best which worried me at first. I think I'll put two coats of primer on, the tin says it's one coat but I think I'll feel better with two coats to ensure I get an even finish as my paint is quite a light cream.

(Id upload photos of my progress but it's such a potch due to the size of the photos)


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## [email protected] (22 Mar 2017)

re. painting I do know that 1) use the best brush possible (some paints recommend synthetic bristles I think) 2) primer nearly always looks awful when first brushed on!

I would personally whats called de nib between any coat ie a relatively cursory sand with something like 120g paper just to remove prickly bits and ensure surface is smooth to the touch then dust off all surfaces.

If Can says one coat of primer thats what I'd do and use additonial coats of undercoat or top coat.

good luck!


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## Alice21 (22 Mar 2017)

I'm using a synthetic bristle brush (a new one). I'm also using all water based products.
I've noticed such a difference in priming the bare pine inside the doors compared to the previously varnish/stained/sanded wood. The primer goes on much more uniform on bare wood...shame the rest doesn't look like that :-/
I'm going to persevere today though and get the whole unit primed even if it unsightly!


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## Alice21 (22 Mar 2017)

Quick question...once unit has been painted should I use a clear top coat to seal and protect? Reading up on it I think it's something I'd need however all sites keep referring to Minwax Ploycrylic which I cannot find here in UK. I think a Polycrylic is what I need rather than a Polyurethane..can anyone suggest a clear satin water based top coat?

I actually have a tin of clear "Trade Interior Varnish" from Screwfix in shed, reading the Q&A on their website it seems to be suitable but I'd like to check first that there isn't a good top coat out there...thank you!


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## Harbo (22 Mar 2017)

On the primed wood use the same make (to be safe) of suitable undercoat and topcoat (gloss or eggshell) whatever you prefer. No need to varnish over it.
Read the instructions on the tins.

Rod


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## [email protected] (22 Mar 2017)

like Harbo says you need to follow the instructions on the tin and stick to a tried and tested method. Googling, mixing and matching different products and assuming somethings going to work has great potential to end in tears! .....dont fall at the final hurdle


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## Alice21 (23 Mar 2017)

I've followed all the instructions hence why I'm using all water based products. My primer and paint are both water based.
As the unit will be not just ornamental and hold books, DVD's etc I was wondering if I need a clear top coat to stop the painted areas getting chipped and the stained top from getting scratched. When I've researched if a top sealer coat over paint is necessary all help sites seem to say yes. I just don't know what top coat to use. I used Ronseal Primer..should I just check my local store to see if Ronseal do a water based Sealer/Top Coat?


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## oakmitre (23 Mar 2017)

No - just keep it simple.

Just to make you feel better, the whole process of staining this cupboard was never going to work the way you though it was.

Even if the wood was completely bare before you stained, softwood like pine tends to stain in an uneven way and may have disappointed

The coloured varnish used by the carpenter hides this fact to some extent, because it stains the wood but also leaves a transparent coating in the same colour making contrast less noticeable.
Once you sanded this off, you were left with three problems. 1. the original softwood staining unevenness. 2. Some residue from the varnish soaked into wood 3. Uneven sanding, which happens when sanding a difficult object with internal corners etc.

The point of painting is to abandon the staining plan and cover everything up --- because staining it simply wont work unless you are very skilled.

You just need to prime it, (I would vacuum out the alchove to remove dust beforehand, then wipe with a damp rag) check for obvious unevenness in the primer once dry, and lightly sand / touch up.

Then just paint it - white / off white is a good neutral colour. 

Once painted, remember that paint touch dries first - then it slowly hardens. In the case of water based Acrylic Poly paint ( there are name variants etc ) this takes around a week from experience.

If you put a book on this surface after 2-3 days, the surface will still be pressure sensitive and the book may slightly fuse to it leaving a mark.

The clear coat is pointless for this application - it will prevent you from touching up and knocks, stains, scratches and if water based is not that different in hardness from the paint underneath.
It may also cause an unpleasant and very obvious sheen if you have a small lamp nearby in the evening.


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## Alice21 (23 Mar 2017)

Thank you for your reply

I primed it all yesterday, this morning I've just lightly sanded any rough areas with very fine sandpaper. I've also wiped it down to remove any dust etc. I'm now going to try the first coat of wood paint (colour is cream to match walls). Hope it goes on ok!


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