# I think I need joinery



## sunnybob (22 May 2018)

I made an understairs cupboard a while ago. As you can see it was made entirely of white melamine chipboard.
It served its purpose but I think i can do better now, but need advice on wood choices.

the left side is merely a hinged door. The right side pull out is about 4 foot deep by 30" wide. the drawer is on four castors and can be pulled all the way out.
To match the rest of the furniture the fronts will need to be either white melamine again or beech.

But what to make all the internals from? Softwood, hardwood, some kind of board?
remember, I'm not good with fancy joints, keep it simple for me please.


----------



## MattRoberts (22 May 2018)

If you're potentially keeping the fronts as white melamine, what's your reason for wanting to change what you have? They seem to be perfectly good, but it's there something else you don't like about them?


----------



## sunnybob (22 May 2018)

I made them quickly (which translates to badly).
I used second hand castors from an old bed, just screwed bits of melamine here there and everywhere for bracing.
Where I ironed on the edges there are many small chips.
The picture doesnt show the true horrors of a close up inspection.
I am no longer proud of it and think I can now do better and want to.

I would like to remake the tray in real wood if feasible, fit proper castors, and maybe even make the front panels in wood if that can be done without turning it into a 10 ton monster that needs a motor to drive it.
But I have no idea how to achieve that.


----------



## custard (22 May 2018)

sunnybob":3on3mqkp said:


> I'm not good with fancy joints, keep it simple for me please.



I'm surprised you say that. Your box projects demonstrate that you're a careful craftsman, capable of precise work. Maybe you've just got a mental block when it comes to joinery, and you've convinced yourself that joints are beyond you? As I say, looking at what you've already achieved, the evidence is you could definitely handle something like this.

I get the sense that you're more confident about using a router, so maybe frame and panel construction for the fronts based around router cut joints is the way to go? Beech frames with Birch Ply panels or white melamine panels are popular.

In terms of attaching the drawer sides to the front panels, and indeed building the drawer boxes themselves, maybe think about dowel based construction. Before biscuits and dominos arrived dowels were the go-to joinery method for the home craftsmen. They've fallen from favour recently, which is a shame as they're a relatively low cost route into reliable jointing. The critical thing is the dowels themselves, if you can source accurately made dowels where you are then it's worth considering.

The old Record doweling jig was a decent bit of kit,

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Boxed-Record ... SwX3Fa9HFk

It'd take a while, but if you could track down a good used version (complete with extension bars, some additional bush arms, and a full set of different sized drill bushes) then there isn't much you couldn't tackle.


----------



## sunnybob (22 May 2018)

My weakness when it comes to carpentry is making joints that fit. Too loose or too tight is my normal work output. Add the fact I dont know enough about wood movement to be sure that a large (and expensive) front panel wont warp to uselessness the day after i finish it explains my trepidation with large projects.
The pergola extension used very large beams and no recognisable joints, just basic laying on top of each other. The boxes are a different thing. I dont measure at all, I make everything to fit everything by constant sanding, and if it all goes runny on me, thats only a tenners worth of firewood for me to give away.

I was thinking of a crib type tray with vertical runners along the sides to hold stuff in without it being too heavy.
I could do that mostly on the router table. I like working with beech.
Any pointers as to how to make that panel front? 'er indoors wouldnt be best pleased with ply panels, thats for sure, it would need to be all beech.
I have a set of WOLF dowel jigs, and also 6 mm and 8 mm beech dowels.


----------



## MattRoberts (22 May 2018)

I think custard's idea of dowel joinery is a great call - they are often underrated because they've been used so badly by flat pack furniture makers.

I would suggest you look to use full extension soft close drawer slides instead of casters - good ones can be a little pricey, but they give a lovely smooth action and can support a huge amount of weight.

It's then a case of making one or more drawers using whatever material you like, then attaching front panels to them. I'd probably steer clear of using solid wood for the front panels and use a beech faced or melamine faced ply or mdf - that way you don't need to worry about wood movement meeting up your nicely shaped fronts. You can edge the panels in real wood though, to frame it nicely.

I would also recommend that you support any large front panels by extending the side of the drawer/s so that it won't flex as much if pulled from the top.


----------



## MattRoberts (22 May 2018)

Here's mine for reference (though I need to re-do it, as I've learned so much more since I did it!)


----------



## sunnybob (22 May 2018)

Draw slides would add to the work, because the partition between the two is only a sheet of contiboard and would not take the weight, so I'll pass on that.

I've just toured my local woodyards and I dont think that i would be allowed to get away with wood faced contiboard as the rest of the wood in the room is now 10 years old, and has discoloured enough that a modern panel looks like a totally different wood. No way am I replacing 20 or so cupboard doors and drawer fronts.

So it will HAVE to be on castors (no big deal for us, I'll get new smooth running ones) and HAVE to stay white if Its too risky making solid wood doors a metre high. The tallest side is 1.4 metres.

But I can get inventive with the tray itself. So that will let me practice "real" carpentry and still be able to hide it if things go badly. I will need to trim all the conti edges and re iron though, that will be a pain.


----------

