# Mike's Workshop



## Mike Saville (9 Feb 2008)

Hi All,

I posted a couple of notes at the end of last year whilst I was thinking about my new workshop  . I have room for a large shop but have decided to stick with what is allowable - we are putting a large extension on the new house as well and don't want to upset the boat there by asking for additional permissions for a workshop . . . . 

Anyway I though now was a good time to start the workshop thread proper as we've now done some ground clearance/preparation. I'm going to share my plans in advance and hope to share progress/problems/price etc over the coming few months . . . 

Enough for now, on to some pictures. . . 

The old shed/summer house that occupied the site at the end of the garden.






A view from further down the garden - there's a concrete slab under those cuttings but unfortunately as the garden is on a slope there are a couple of large steps in this - which has meant we have had to breakout this slab  





The only way to deal with the old shed!!





View back down towards the house - anyone for some ash?





WIP digging out and levelling the site.





More on plans to follow. . . . .


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## PowerTool (9 Feb 2008)

Nice pictures - hope the rest of the build goes well.
Yes,I could happily use the ash  ...but you couldn't really be much further away..  

Looking forward to seeing the rest of the build.

Andrew


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## Effigy (10 Feb 2008)

Good photos.

I'm hoping to start my workshop build in the summer (if we have one :roll: ), so I will be following your progress with some interest.

Looks to be quite a slope up to the site!

Good luck.


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## Gordon T (10 Feb 2008)

Lovely,

another workshop build, keep the piccies coming and good luck with the build.

GT


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## Digit (10 Feb 2008)

> if we have one Rolling Eyes



Of course we are going to have one! I placed my order early this year!

Roy.


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## 9fingers (10 Feb 2008)

In most circumstances, you can go up to 30 sq metres internal dimensions without Planning permission and free of detailed building control provided a few criteria are met - such as fire resistance.

Search for info on permitted development rights.

Bob


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## Mike Saville (11 Feb 2008)

Budget so far . . . I'll try to keep this updated as I go. 

Digger Hire £170.
Diesel for digger £19.60

*Total £189.60.*


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## Mike Saville (11 Feb 2008)

9fingers":76apsxmi said:


> In most circumstances, you can go up to 30 sq metres internal dimensions without Planning permission and free of detailed building control provided a few criteria are met - such as fire resistance.



Thanks Bob, yep that's my understanding as well. So the final size will be 6.5x4.6m (or 29.9 sqm).



Effigy":76apsxmi said:


> Looks to be quite a slope up to the site!



Certainly is!! Garden is approx 40m long - over that distance there is a rise of 6m!!! I'm not looking forward to carting all the materials to the site :shock:


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## Mike Saville (11 Feb 2008)

Hi again, I'd like some thoughts/opinions on my floor structure. 

The floor will be made out of 8x2 pressure treated. I'm going to use the concrete pad system for foundations. I'm going to place batons in the voids on which to suspend insulation (type TBC). I'm then going to cover the floor in 18mm marine ply before any wall construction. When finished I hope to have the usual array of power tools in the workshop (table saw, planer/thicknesser, bandsaw etc). I'd hope this floor construction will cope with that sort of load.

Questions I have now are:
1. How deep should I make the foundations for the concrete pads? I was thinking 500mm down with 200mm hardcore below the concrete?
2. Does anyone see any issue with the floor spans between the concrete pads? 

Drawing below so you can see what I'm considering - I'm a few weeks away from construction yet so hope to iron out any issues before then.


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## Digit (11 Feb 2008)

Hi Mike. I'm about to 'try' and post some pics of my efforts, and some of my experieces may be of help. 
Unfortunately, despite a large garden, I was not able to build as large as your effort, but I have used the same method. 
Concrete was not an option as ready mix could not get near enough and using a mixer was out as the concrete would have had to be wheel barrowed a damn long way, so spots it was. 
Like me you seem to be close to trees, so your spots will need to go down below root action, spacing seems OK. 
You will not be able to get all that number of spots at exactly the same height, so don't bother. 
I used concrete below ground level (saved shuttering) then concrete building blocks above, then I simply used packing to achieve level with a DPM under the wooden beams. Much easier. 
But you about to make the same mistake as I did with the floor. With the beams down I used 18mm OSB followed by the walls. MISTAKE. 
I now find that additional supports are needed in a couple of places and the floor of course is now trapped under walls! 
When I can I shall be cutting the floor into 'hatches' and inserting more cross supports. 
YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! 

Roy.


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## OLD (11 Feb 2008)

This is the info on spans look at page 40 onwards it looks like you are well over speced on timber size for your spans
http://www.stapeley1.plus.com/build regs & calcs.pdf
marine ply could also be over as it wont be getting wet .


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## Mike Saville (12 Feb 2008)

OLD":7rfg6urs said:


> This is the info on spans look at page 40 onwards it looks like you are well over speced on timber size for your spans
> http://www.stapeley1.plus.com/build regs & calcs.pdf
> marine ply could also be over as it wont be getting wet .



Thanks Old, I'd rather be over - and given the weight of some machines I'm more comfortable with 8x2 than with something smaller.


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## Mike Saville (12 Feb 2008)

Digit":2u1f6jh2 said:


> Hi Mike. I'm about to 'try' and post some pics of my efforts, and some of my experieces may be of help.


Good luck with it - I've learnt a lot from the other workshop threads on this forum - I'm sure yours will be no different.



Digit":2u1f6jh2 said:


> Concrete was not an option as ready mix could not get near enough and using a mixer was out as the concrete would have had to be wheel barrowed a damn long way, so spots it was.


I think I can use a mixer for my situation but readymix is definately out!



Digit":2u1f6jh2 said:


> Like me you seem to be close to trees, so your spots will need to go down below root action, spacing seems OK.


Judging from the dig out the roots go down around 500mm in this area so to go below these I'm looking at 750mm.



Digit":2u1f6jh2 said:


> You will not be able to get all that number of spots at exactly the same height, so don't bother.
> I used concrete below ground level (saved shuttering) then concrete building blocks above, then I simply used packing to achieve level with a DPM under the wooden beams. Much easier.


Agreed on the levels - I'm also going to use concrete blocks on top of the pads - I'd hope however the get these pretty close to level. And yes DPM on top of those.



Digit":2u1f6jh2 said:


> But you about to make the same mistake as I did with the floor. With the beams down I used 18mm OSB followed by the walls. MISTAKE.
> I now find that additional supports are needed in a couple of places and the floor of course is now trapped under walls!


Not sure I understand your point here?? What my picture above doesn't show is the noggins that will be between all the floor joists. If extra support is needed I'd rather insert it now. However I take the point about not putting the floor under the walls in case access underneath is needed in future for any reason.

Thanks for the comments and taking the time to post.


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## OLD (12 Feb 2008)

It may be worth leaving a tree stump to use as a fixing for a winch to help you get your heavy machines into the new shop up that very steep garden of yours.


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## garywayne (12 Feb 2008)

Hi Mike. 

I am in the process of building my w/shop, but at the beginning i thought that I could build a 3 x 10M building, until my local council wrote back to me stating that my building was more than 70 or 72quM. So I needed planning permission.

Mike, I suggest you talk with your local council. Just in case.

Sorry if this is bad news.

Bob mentioned about fire restrictions. The only thing I was told about fire when I spoke with the council was that because I was building only 2ft from my boundary fence I had to have a fire resistance of 30mins.

Sorry if this all sounds glum.

All the best with your build.


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## Mike Saville (12 Feb 2008)

I spoke with the local building control people at the end of last year - as I have room for something which is 9x7m  . However they did tell me that the restriction is 30sqm internal floor area and 1m from the boundary. Any change to this would probably be ok but I would need planning permission and worse still building regs telling me how I can/can't build it!!! Hence my final decision on something more modest which will meet their stipulations.


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## Jake (12 Feb 2008)

I'd go for 450mm centres on the joists with 18mm ply.


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## Anonymous (12 Feb 2008)

Hi Mike,

watch your height when doing the foundations. My solid concrete block comes just above ground height. Then I've got bricks on that to level. Then I've got 6x2 on that. Then there is plywood on top. The result is that I'm well above ground when stood in the workshop. This then had a knock on effect on the height I could do the walls and roof.

Just pointing out the down side to using bigger floor joists.

Have you thought about doing strips of concrete rather than pillars. It would give you a lot better support for the joists.

Don't be scared by mixing large amounts of concrete by hand. Get help from at least one other bloke and make sure you've got more than enough materials at hand (my only mistake). Things get moving pretty quickly.

Dave


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## Shultzy (12 Feb 2008)

Of course you could dispense with the concrete altogether and lay slabs on sand and hardcore. This means you can reduce the size of the joists by half.


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## Petiegolfer (19 Feb 2008)

I constructed a large deck at our old house. All joists were 6x2's. 500 centres and a span of 5m supported in the centre with a 6x2 on paving slabs and concrete blocks.

I came home to find Kate had gone out and brought one of those large self supporting paddling pools and it was filled up and on the deck....SHHHHH1T was the first thing I thought when I saw it...there must have been a couple of tons of water in it! After a bit of looking at things I realised that the load was actually not doing much to the deck at all.

Biggest machine you get wont be over a couple of hundred kilos and the weight will be supported over a floor tied in with 18mm ply and noggins...no need for 8's.

I would be inclined to run strip foundations as well...dig out 700, compact the base soil with a wacker, 300mm type 1 compacted and then 400mm concrete with some reinforcing. One course of concrete blocks on their flats to get everything out of the ground then 6x2's on flat on membrane fixed with window frame screws. These then give you something to spike into with all of the joists.

Build floor in timber lengths 2.4m 3m 3.6m 4.2m 4.8 5.4's...saves a ton of cutting and wasteage....

Long length 3m and 3.6 sections x 4.8s two sections will make it easier to fine tune heights with plastic wedges on top of more damp proof membrane. Come to think of it I would go 5.4s wide and have a veranda / deck you could sit on whilst you have a brew?? :wink: Take advantage of the height up there!

Piers


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## Petiegolfer (19 Feb 2008)

Having read things again spots might be easiest. But I would still span them with a 6x2 on flat to spike into with 4" nails. It also means that all of the joists have some support under them. It never ceases to amaze me how things stiffen up when you start wacking bits of 6x2 together.

I will try to get some pics of our old garden to give you some ideas re joists etc.

Piers


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