# Saved from the fire



## frugal (11 Mar 2010)

After my last bowl seemed like such a success I decided to try a more interesting (read difficult) shape. This piece is once again a nice looking piece of ash that was saved from the firewood pile at a reenactment event (I am such a cheapskate).

I wanted to try to make more of an ogee shape in order to try and improve my gouge control. what I ended up with was this:







/





There was supposed to be a foot on this. It started off well, but the wood for the foot was very soft and must have been sap wood. It disintegrated when I tried to shape it, so it all came off unfortunately.

The outside of the bowl certainly taught me that the way I present the gouge determines the angle of the cut, it was a bit strange getting used to moving the handle hand in order to change the direction of the cut.


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## wizer (11 Mar 2010)

I will say it again, you're a natural. Good shape, good finish. I think it looks better for not having a foot. If you were feeling a little braver you could have made the bottom slightly more rounded so it 'wobbled', which is an 'arty' thing to do. I think it would have suited this well, but is obviously less practical.


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## frugal (11 Mar 2010)

wizer":kpwdcu8q said:


> I will say it again, you're a natural. Good shape, good finish. I think it looks better for not having a foot. If you were feeling a little braver you could have made the bottom slightly more rounded so it 'wobbled', which is an 'arty' thing to do. I think it would have suited this well, but is obviously less practical.



The foot came off quite abruptly shall we say. :? The bowl was being held between a cylinder of wood and the live centre in the tailstock. I have not got good enough to make jam chuck that will keep the bowl attached without needing the tailstock. So I was going to turn the foot and then pare the tenon down until there is a small enough amount that I can clean it up with a chisel.

Unfortunately it gave way too soon, so I had to clean up the bottom with a nice sharp bevel edged chisel off of the lathe.


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## Jonzjob (11 Mar 2010)

That is a lovely bowl and I am afraid that I don't subcrribe to "á la mode" and the instability it is talking of today. For me, it's a bit like tatoos, easy to put on, but what do you do when it goes out of fashon. I can imagine the foot on it and I don't think that it has suffered much without it. Did you cut the outside or inside first? With a bowl like that I always eithr=er mount it on a screw chuck or hot glue onto a wood faced face plate and do the outside first. I find it easier then to follow on the inside.

But, I do the opposite with goblets.

Ash is not the easiest wood to get a good finish on, but you have got it right for me! I like the lip. When I saw the first photo, I thought it was going to be heavy and it was a lovely surprise!

As a matter of interest, the next time I am up on Froster Hill, Selsley Common or Cam Long Down flying a radio controlled glider is not going to be my first time and perhapse not my last either? Next time you are up there and see model fliers, go and say helo, they are a great bunch of blokes and tell them that John the Soar Bits in France says hello too!


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## stevebuk (11 Mar 2010)

Deja Vu here, have done exactly the same shaped bowl today but i am considering doing some pyrography on it as an experimental piece.
Lovely wood frugal and nicely turned too, i dont recall seeing the dimensions of it though.


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## Ad de Crom (12 Mar 2010)

Frugal, if I may say a nice experience with making this shaped bowl, a bit unusual shape for a bowl, but like you said good for gouge control.
I have no problems with the shape of the bowl, it's refreshing to see an other bowl shape. Well executed, good save (from the fireplace).
Really don't understand why people put such nice wood into the pile for firewood.
Very well done.
Ad


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## frugal (12 Mar 2010)

stevebuk":1ptkalyi said:


> Deja Vu here, have done exactly the same shaped bowl today but i am considering doing some pyrography on it as an experimental piece.
> Lovely wood frugal and nicely turned too, i dont recall seeing the dimensions of it though.



It is 7.5" in diameter at the widest point and 2.5" high.

Although the lathe can cope with 9" diameter bowls[1], the wood needed the faces cleaned up or it would have been too out of balance for my little lathe to cope with, and the maximum depth of cut on my bandsaw is only 8"

Although the wall on this one is a little thinner than the first one I am still nervous about taking out the side of the bowl. As the rim was thicker than the side walls I could not use the standard calipers I have. I will have to invest in, or make a set of those double ended calipers you can read from the outside.

[1] If the bonus was not going to pay off the overdraft I would already have bitten Mark Sanger's hand off for his Hegner, for the extra capacity alone.


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## frugal (12 Mar 2010)

Jonzjob":1y9fnk2w said:


> Did you cut the outside or inside first? With a bowl like that I always eithr=er mount it on a screw chuck or hot glue onto a wood faced face plate and do the outside first. I find it easier then to follow on the inside.



I screwed it onto a faceplate and started by truing it up with the tailstock supprting it, and then putting a tenon on the end. Then I shapped the outside. Once I had shaped and finished the outside I took it off the faceplace and attached it to the scroll chuck by the tenon I had previously made. At this point the rim was about 3/8" thick as I was sure I was going to get a huge catch when doing the inside.

Then I hollowed out the inside which nicely gets ride of the screw holes that the face plate used. the sides just go straight down and then curve in at the bottom in a U shape rather than following the outside profile. I then finished the inside and took it off of the scroll chuck.

To try and shape the bottom I put a cylinder of wood in the scroll chuck with a slightly domed end and then placesd the bowl over it and brought the tailstock up to support it. The aim was to clen up the tenon and make a nice foot for the bowl, but the wood was too soft.




Jonzjob":1y9fnk2w said:


> But, I do the opposite with goblets.



Grrr... don't talk to me about hollowing goblets. After my two sucesses with bowls I tried a goblet in Apple last night. Total disaster despite doing everything that Richard Raffan says to do 



Jonzjob":1y9fnk2w said:


> Ash is not the easiest wood to get a good finish on, but you have got it right for me! I like the lip. When I saw the first photo, I thought it was going to be heavy and it was a lovely surprise!



The lip was serendipity  As I said, I left the lip square and 3/8" thick on the expectation that when I hollowed out the middle I was bound to get a catch that meant I needed to clean up the rim, so I left plenty spare. In the end I did not get any catches, so I thinned it at the outside and left full thickness in the middle and just rounded over the inner edge of the lip to soften it.



Jonzjob":1y9fnk2w said:


> As a matter of interest, the next time I am up on Froster Hill, Selsley Common or Cam Long Down flying a radio controlled glider is not going to be my first time and perhapse not my last either? Next time you are up there and see model fliers, go and say helo, they are a great bunch of blokes and tell them that John the Soar Bits in France says hello too!



I look out over Cam Peak and the Long Down from the other side of the valley whenever I do the washing up. Next time you are in the area PM me and pop over for a cuppa


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## frugal (12 Mar 2010)

I decided to have a single thread to keep track of my turning attempts rather than create a new thread for each one.

I went out to the workshop again today to have another crack at hollowing the end of a goblet. 

After a number of different approaches at hollowing out. I think I was happiest with the Mike Darlow method the best of the various different methods in the books I have (serves me right for trying to learn everything from books rather than finding another human being to talk to). after a while I got something that resembled the inside of a goblet (admittedly the goblet was about 2 inches shorted than when I started  )

I decided to make the walls a bit thinner than I am normally comfortable with (the bowls have been 5-8mm thick), this is about 1 - 2mm thick. the stem was interesting as once I shaped the stem I realised that there was so much whipping that I could not finish the outside of the bowl properly. This is why you can see a bit of patterning at the top of the bowl, the spindle gouge bounced a bit as the walls got thinner.

The only things I am disappointed about are the patterning at the top of the bowl and the fact that the base is about 1/8 wider than the bowl and 1/4 too high.

I am please that I managed to get the hollowing fairly smooth and that I can just about see my fingers through that walls of the goblet. I am also amazed that the stem held up in one piece.

The final piece is 5.5" high and 2.5" in diameter from a piece of apple that was saved from the firewood pile.


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## wizer (12 Mar 2010)

right I've got the 'ump now, how do I ignore this thread???

:lol: Very nice work mate


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## Paul.J (12 Mar 2010)

That looks really elegant,from the stem up  
Really nice shape to the stem and bowl.
Not sure which method you used but you have to work and finish from the top down in stages.Leaving the bulk in the bottom.
Really good for a first attempt i think


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## Bodrighy (12 Mar 2010)

That is really elegant. Getting a good goblet shape isn't easy at all. One tip. The base should be roughly 2/3rds the diameter of the bowl to be in proportion. I was told that and cynic that I am measured the wine glasses in the cupboard and they were all those dimensions. Otherwise that is one pretty goblet.

Pete


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## stevebuk (13 Mar 2010)

lovely goblet frugal, must agree with pete about the foot though, but a great effort.. :lol:


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## CHJ (13 Mar 2010)

OK, late on the scene again with comments but the bowl and stem certainly show good clean lines, well done, like the others though the base looks a little too wide and heavy for me, well finished though for all that.


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## Jonzjob (13 Mar 2010)

I agree with the comments made in that the base is a bit heavy. If you actually did the stem and then did the outside of the bowl then you were really living dangerously! If you do it that way then you could always bring the tail stock up, put a wad of papre towel over a live centre and support the bowl that way. Just don't put any more pressure on the tail stock thatn is needed to hold it steady though..

Nice shape and very elegant and using the tail stock you could possibly trim the base?


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## frugal (13 Mar 2010)

I fully agree that the base is too wide and too thick, but I only realised that after I had parted it off  

I cut and finished the inside of the bowl, then cut the outside of the bowl and the stem. Only then did I realise that I could not effectively sand and polish the outside of the bowl at there was too little support.


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## Bodrighy (13 Mar 2010)

With goblets it's easy to support by stuffing the bowl with tissue and bringing the tailstock up. Bring it in until it just starts turning and you will find that it will support well. Don't go too tight mind as it will bend the stem. 





These were all done that way, the two at the front have 4mm stems and were fine as long as you are gentle with the skew

pete


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## Shay Vings (13 Mar 2010)

I made one rather like this but with a more pronounced downturned rim. I thought it was quite clever until a family member picked it up and said "its just like the sick bowls they give you in hospital".

Although I should have given her a slap, the trouble is she's dead right and I can't stand the sight of the bl**** thing now so it stays in the practice pieces box.


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## frugal (21 Mar 2010)

Another attempt, this time a piece of spalted beech that a friend gave me. He had roughed it to a cylinder a couple of years ago and then lost interest in turning and said that he was never going to finish it.

This time I decided that I was going to have a plan and see if I could follow it. I needed to take a fair bit of the wood off when I looked at it as some of the wood had gone from spalted to rotten (I figure any part that I can push my thumb into is not much use for turning). So when I got rid of the rotten bits it went from a 6" diameter blank to a 4.5" diameter. I looked at what I had left and came up with this: 





What I had left said Vase to me, so I thought I would have a go. I am not brave enough to try any kind of hollow form, so it was going to be a quite wide necked vase. The final dimensions were to be 4.75" high and 4.25" in diameter at the widest point. Of course no plan survive first contact with the enemy. 

The first thing I had to do was take it off of the drive centre and put it on the face plate (every time I try to do end grain hollowing on the chuck it just rips the wood out of the chuck, so now I go straight to the face plate and 1.5" screws). Of course once I put it on the face plate it was slightly out of true, so I had to rough it down to a cylinder again, which of course meant that the diameter was now only 4". Which of course meant that my nicely cut out templates were scrap paper as they were bigger than the available wood...

Oh well, I started to crack on with the hollowing and I was going to use the pattern as a guide only. The wood was horrible to cut. I am not sure if it was because it was spalted and very dry, but it just came out in chips and lumps and I found it really hard to get any kind of smooth finish. It did not help that with the size of the piece I could not get the rest angled into the area I was hollowing out, the underside of the rest would interfere with the rim of the vase if I tried. This meant that the tools were pretty much as far extended as I could get them, which meant that they chattered and bounced all over the place. So the inside is a bit of a dogs dinner I am afraid.





The outside was not too bad, although I am not that keen on the transition at the widest point, it is too sharp.









The base is about 1/2" narrower than I was planning as when I was undercutting the base to ensure that it was stable when it stood I got a catch which meant that I had to re-cut and refinish the lower inch of the vase. In doing so I could not get the two finished areas to blend very well.

Final dimensions 4.75" high and 3.5" in diameter. Finished with Shellac sanding sealer and clear Briwax.

All in all I think I will stay away from hollowing any deeper than a goblet until I have some more experience and some more appropriate tools.


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## wizer (21 Mar 2010)

I really like the shape Frugal. 8) I have done something similar myself when I first got the Roly tool. But I went through the side :evil: 

It still Irks me you're so bloody good. I'm not reading this thread any more :lol:


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## frugal (21 Mar 2010)

wizer":9ylx0clv said:


> It still Irks me you're so bloody good. I'm not reading this thread any more :lol:



The photos make it look a lot better than it really is.


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## wizer (21 Mar 2010)

Just kidding mate. I see those transitions. The difference between me and you is that you have the balls to finish it. Whereas I will keep mucking about with it trying to blend one line into another and then the next line into that one and all of a sudden, I've made a bangle :roll: :wink:


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## Jonzjob (21 Mar 2010)

In the arms race the world needs bangles!

Otherwise we wouldn't have a leg to stand on


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## CHJ (21 Mar 2010)

Jonzjob":e0ehx3hs said:


> In the arms race the world needs bangles!
> 
> Otherwise we wouldn't have a leg to stand on


Been at the Vintage stuff again *John* :lol: :lol:


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## Bodrighy (21 Mar 2010)

Are you using a spindle or bowl gouge to do the outside? If you use a bowl gouge with a traditional grind you will be able to shave the wood more easily and get that curve. It isn't easy though and like Tom I have ended up with a fair few 'bangles' in the attempts. Overall it's a good looking piece though and I think you'll find that most people who don't turn themselves would be quite happy with it.

pete


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## CHJ (21 Mar 2010)

Agree with Pete on the point of most non turners acceptance of the piece. A good many new to turning would be quite happy to have achieved as good.


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## Jonzjob (22 Mar 2010)

I like it and I don't think that the transition at the wide point is too sharp. It is a shame about the breakout on the inside but with some dry flowers in it that won't be seen.

I do like spalting! Great stuff rugal.


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## frugal (22 Mar 2010)

Bodrighy":173bute4 said:


> Are you using a spindle or bowl gouge to do the outside? If you use a bowl gouge with a traditional grind you will be able to shave the wood more easily and get that curve.



I used a spindle gouge with a 35 degree grind on it, so the bevel is quite long. I will have a go with the bowl gouge on the outside next time.

I am going to go along to Yandles in three weeks time, so I might have to have a chat to people there about better ways of hollowing out the end grain.


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## Jonzjob (22 Mar 2010)

My usual method of starting the hollowing is to put a 1 1/4" flat bit down to the depth I want to take out, but don't forget the length of the pointy bit! After that I don't have too much of a problem.

I usually mount the blank on my screw chuck and hold it secure with a live point on the tailstock until it's roughed down and more ballanced. Then turn a mortice fin the base and clean it up. From then on it comes off the screw and goes on my Axminster expanding chuck for the hollowing.

If it's a bowl the outside gets turned and finished on the screw, but a goblet or tall piece is as above.


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## frugal (5 Apr 2010)

A year or so ago I picked up a woodworking magazine that came with a how-to guide. One of the projects was a set of garden tools. As I have been making some raised beds in the garden I figured it would be a good idea to have a go at them. First up is a pair of string holders for marking out rows for planting: 





It was an interesting exercise as I actually planned it out first  I sketched out the shape and transferred the key transitions to a piece of wood. Once I had roughed out the branch to a 1.25" cylinder I marked the key points. The aim was to get both identical. They are not too bad, although for some reason the one at the back is about 1/4" longer then the one in front. Also I still can not get on with beads and coves, despite being the most basic exercise I always find them really difficult. Which is why the beads are different sizes on each stick.

Next up will have to be a dibber with the same dimensions to round off the set...


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## Bodrighy (5 Apr 2010)

It's surprising how many turners have problems with spindle work for some reason. A lot never do any, just stick to face work. These string holders look good to me. Now do the same again but put 1/2 marks up them with burnt rings and you have yourself a dibber as well.

pete


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## Jonzjob (5 Apr 2010)

By the time they are in the ground several feet apart with string round them you ain't going to see any difference mate  

They look good and as pete multi use too!


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## CHJ (5 Apr 2010)

More than close enough for purpose Frugal. I doubt the veg patch will note the difference.


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## wizer (5 Apr 2010)

Don't worry about not getting beads and coves right yet. I'm useless at them. Just ask Richard and Blister  :lol: 

This is a nice idea which I think will be very useful. They would have been very handy on my allotment when I had it.


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## frugal (24 Apr 2010)

A few more pieces. The first is a small burr elm vase about 3" tall. The centre is not hollowed, it is just drilled out and the top opened. Finished with Chestnut Friction Polish. 



 



 

The second piece is a yew bowl that turned out to have an inclusion that crumbled out, so I decided to include it. The bowl is 5.5" wide, 2.5" high with a wall width of 1/4" finished with Chestnut friction polish again. The top lip is undercut so that the inside follows the outside. I had real trouble with finishing this one. Every time the tool or sandpaper went over the hole it bounced slightly and made it impossible to get the inside of the rim smooth. Does anyone have any tips on dealing with holes? You can see on the first picture an area that is not very smooth, and looking at the photos I can see a couple of tool marks that I swear I had not seen on the outside  



 



 



 

Finally here is one especially for Wizer to show that I am not some kind of turning wunderkind  I have a reenactment drinking vessel that is 10" tall and 3" wide, but the walls are so thick that you can only get a can of coke's worth of liquid in it, and the walls are so rough that you end up with masses of foam if you try to pour beer into it. So I thought that I would clean up the nasty oil finish and hollow out the inside some more. It was all going so well until I tried to touch up the rim. Then BANG! and when I stopped that lathe I found this: 



 

The rim has shattered and there is a big crack all down one side. Oh well, I at least have a second one for the start of the season until I find a suitable bit of firewood


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## CHJ (24 Apr 2010)

Good efforts on those two, on the hole front try keeping the speed up so that the tool has less time to react to the lack of support, be careful not to push too hard just hold firmly in position you don't want to advance the tool into the hole as it passes the tip. 

Watch out for friction heating on the Yew, it will develope micro cracks readily if over heated, make sure your abrasive is not worn and is cutting freely.
The tool marks look like torn or pulled grain that once formed do take some removal, they go deeper than you expect. Sharp tools and use a rotary sanding head to avoid sanding in the same direction.
Try applying some sealer or oil if you are using that to finish before the final shear cuts to help lubricate and support the fibres.

Bad luck with the vessel, but most practiced turners would have baulked at touching it for just the reasons you have experienced, the wood moves and use will have altered the temper of the wood providing unknown tool response etc. when trying to work it.


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## wizer (24 Apr 2010)

Nice efforts. The first one is almost there, but I think the curve needed further refining to have more continuous flow in it. The form of the 2nd one does nothing for me. Again, the outer curve appears to have a flat in the middle. I rarely like Yew OR Inclusions\Bark ect either, but that's just personal. Other than ramping the speed up, you could have just sanded with the lathe off. It's laborious, but we do it in the flat world.

Hard lines with the vessel. I've had a few rims go on me like that. It will give you a chance to make another. Every cloud


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## frugal (25 Apr 2010)

Chas, thanks for the tip about sealing it just before the final cuts, I will try that on the next piece.

I had kept the speed right down rather than increasing it as I was worried that with too high a speed I would cause more problems 

Tom, I see what you mean about the flat on the side of the bowl now that you mention it. I am getting better at the curves, but there is still a long way to go.


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## Thomas Hayman (25 Apr 2010)

Lovely work, very tidy. 

What period do you re-enact out of interest?


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## Bodrighy (25 Apr 2010)

Looking good. 

When turning the outside of the bowl roll your body to get the curve not use your arms. Also with yew you should be able to get a finish that hardly needs any sanding which helps avoid the problem that Chas mentions. 

Pete


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## frugal (26 Apr 2010)

Thomas Hayman":37qb2zko said:


> Lovely work, very tidy.
> 
> What period do you re-enact out of interest?



Late 14th , early 15th Century.

One of the things I am going to try and have a go at is faking pole turned bowls on an electric lathe.


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## Richard T (26 Apr 2010)

Why not russle up a pole lathe ? 
Mine was free - appart from the string; that's quite a good deal I recon.


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## Thomas Hayman (26 Apr 2010)

Ah, i'm WoTR so wouldn't be too surprised if i've met you before :-D

A pole lathe is easy enough to knock up, ask over on the Bodgers forum there are loads of pole lathers there.


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## frugal (21 May 2010)

I have been working on boxes recently so not much turning going on. However I thought I would have a go at a simple shaped bowl in order to try and get the form as clean as possible. This one has not started as firewood, instead it is a blank of bocote I got from Yandles in the spring. Obviously I was in a rush to get through the woodshed before we had to go and pick up the kids because I had not realised how expensive it was  So I thought that I shall do a nice simple rice bowl shape and spend as much time as it needed to get the finish to the point where I am happy with it.

The finished piece is 6" in diameter and 2.5" high. Finished with Chestnut friction polish. The white line on the top right of the first picture seems to be an artifact of the grain rather than a sanding failure as it is completely smooth and has been present through the whole process.













As usual the images are links to Flickr if you want to see a larger version.


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## Bodrighy (22 May 2010)

Looks good. These simple shapes aren't that simple to get right but you seem to have done OK with this one. 

If you want wood, keep your eyes open in the hedgerows. Amazing how often there are lumps of wood left lying around. I have just bought some wood for a commission, first couple of pieces for about 2 years.

Pete


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## frugal (21 Jun 2010)

It has been a while, but I wanted to play with the new lathe: 













American Black Walnut from Yandles, 5.5" high and 2.5" at the widest point. This time I followed the suggestion and made the base 2/3 of the bowl which looks a lot better, but I am now wondering if it is too small  

The finish is Chestnut Hard Wax Oil topped off with a coat of wax.

It was going to be about 8" tall, but I broke one of the cardinal rules, the one that says that the inside of the bowl needs to be smaller than the outside  I now have a smaller goblet and a raggedy napkin ring :lol:


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## monkeybiter (21 Jun 2010)

That's a beautiful rich brown colour, makes me hungry :?


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## The Shark (21 Jun 2010)

Hi Frugal,
IMHO the base does look better for being smaller, but I see what you mean about it possibly being too small now. Proportion is a real pain to get right, and I am sure more knowledgeable turners will give you their help soon.

How are you getting on with the new lathe?

Malc


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## Bodrighy (21 Jun 2010)

Are you sure that the base is 2/3rds of the max dia of the bowl? Looks smaller than that in the picture. Again the overall shape etc looks really good. Beautiful wood too. 
If you want to make these goblets for use you can either give it really thick coat of beeswax(not furniture polish, pure beeswax) or melamine. Traditional way (seeing as 'ow you're into re-enactment_ was to melt beeswax int the cup and swill it around so that it soaked into the grain.

Pete


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## frugal (15 Sep 2010)

A couple of recent turning attempts: The first is a spalted beech bowl. I got the wood at auction at the start of last year. I was a bit nervous as after I had bid on it I was speaking to someone and they were decrying the state of some of the lots; he pointed to the beech I had bought and cited it as an example of wood that had gone from spalted to rotten. However when I cleaned off the black surface mold the wood underneath is gorgeous:




IMG_8163 by frugal10191, on Flickr




IMG_8168 by frugal10191, on Flickr

9.5" in diameter. 2.5" high and the wall is a consistent 1/2" thick all the way down. Finished with Chestnut Hard Wax Oil.


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## frugal (15 Sep 2010)

The next piece is a scrap of ash that I experimented with to make a mazer. Robin Wood was describing medieval mazers on his blog a while ago, and as I do medieval reenactment I thought that it would be a good idea to try one. My first attempt is about 4" across and 2" high with nice thin walls of about 1/16". The finish is olive oil as I intended to drink out of it.

As I found out afterwards I should have raised the grain and then sanded it down a bit more as once I had drunk a couple of pints from it the walls became a little rough. It holds about half a pint of beer (other liquids yet to be tested  )




IMG_8158 by frugal10191, on Flickr


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## frugal (15 Sep 2010)

Finally for today; my first attempt at pen turning. I finally cracked and bought a pen turning mandrel, barrel trimmer and some cheap kits from Axminster. We had a random pack of pen blanks from when we first bought the lathe last spring, so I have no idea what the wood is. The whole process was fairly painless (I would hope so given the amount of pen turning videos and tutorials I had gone through before I started). saying that I did spend a long time trying to get my sanding sorted out as I kept getting marks that I needed to sand along the barrel a lot.




IMG_8298 by frugal10191, on Flickr


Finish is Chestnut friction polish. I finally found out how to apply the polish without putting lots of streaks into my piece. It turns out that I needed to use a much finer weave cloth. What I was using was too coarse and that was causing the streaking.


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## Bodrighy (15 Sep 2010)

Nice looking work Frugal and a good variety too. Has your mazer got a knob on the inside? Why did they have those anyway? Always wondered

Pete


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## frugal (15 Sep 2010)

Bodrighy":qskaida8 said:


> Nice looking work Frugal and a good variety too. Has your mazer got a knob on the inside? Why did they have those anyway? Always wondered
> 
> Pete



No, it has not got a knob on the inside. Nor has it got any of that posh beaten silver around the top. Pure peasant fare here I am afraid


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