# Push Stick



## Dodge (16 Jul 2011)

In my other thread regarding my workshop a few people pm'd me about the push stick they spotted on my table saw so here it is!

Basically two offcuts of birch faced ply with a spacer between them the marginally wider than the side fence meaning that it slides freely - the handle enables it to be pushed easily whilst the angled cut at the leading edge of the birch faced ply also ats as a hold down for the material being passed through the saw. 

My main reason for making it was that I hate using push sticks when cutting thin strips as your hand is effectively pushing directly towards the blade with a conventional push stick - with mine your hand is to the side over the fence.















Rog


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2011)

Hi Rog
Yes, good idea in many respects.

Hand position is good and I like that bevel at the front to give a bit of downward pressure.

I do have a few Buts, though 

It should be longer; as it is, to push the wood past the blade you need to have you hand in line with the blade. HSE rec 450mm long.
It looks like you are using a full-length fence for ripping. Push-stick or no, that's not a good idea. The fence should have an auxiliary short fence which finishes after the top cutting tooth but before TDC of the blade.

Cheers
Steve


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## tinytim1458 (18 Jul 2011)

Steve Maskery":19j6qov6 said:


> Hi Rog
> Yes, good idea in many respects.
> 
> Hand position is good and I like that bevel at the front to give a bit of downward pressure.
> ...



Hi i like the push stick if you have to do a few mod's then you never know some woodwork or table saw company might take the design up. 
Thanks tim


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## Jensmith (18 Jul 2011)

Steve Maskery":3ptsgqn5 said:


> The fence should have an auxiliary short fence which finishes after the top cutting tooth but before TDC of the blade.
> 
> Cheers
> Steve



I hope this isn't a silly question but what is 'TDC'? 

Thanks,
Jennifer,


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## Doug B (18 Jul 2011)

Jensmith":2d667a7d said:


> I hope this isn't a silly question but what is 'TDC'?
> 
> Thanks,
> Jennifer,



I know TDC as top dead center


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2011)

Yes, sorry, Top Dead Centre, i.e. the point on the blade where its height is maximum. Before that the teeth are all travelling downwards and after that the teeth are all rising, being a potential source of kickback.
S


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## marcros (18 Jul 2011)

Steve, what do you mean by the top cutting tooth? is it possible to mark up a blade so that we can see where the short rip fence should be between?


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jul 2011)

I'd draw a pic but I don't have time tight now. Sorry.
Height of blade = thickness of timber plus height of one tooth. Put workpiece next to blade and see which tooth is just about to cut into it, Fence much be as far as there but no further than TDC.

Cheers
Steve


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## marcros (18 Jul 2011)

excellent, thanks


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## Dibs-h (18 Jul 2011)

Doug B":234muud3 said:


> Jensmith":234muud3 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope this isn't a silly question but what is 'TDC'?
> ...



Yeah - usually on Cylinder #1. :mrgreen: 

(sorry couldn't resist - getting coat and hat)


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## myturn (18 Jul 2011)

Dibs-h":3bug6tox said:


> Doug B":3bug6tox said:
> 
> 
> > Jensmith":3bug6tox said:
> ...


TDC applies to any cylinder, the reference to TDC on No.1 is usually the position where the ignition timing marks are aligned. :mrgreen:


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## Racers (18 Jul 2011)

Hi, Mick

Not ignition thats usually before TDC.

Pete


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## Chems (20 Jul 2011)

Steve Maskery":27t7narc said:


> The fence should have an auxiliary short fence which finishes after the top cutting tooth but before TDC of the blade.



I don't buy into this, I've had saws with both and its much better (accuracy and ease) with the full length fence. I've never had any kick back with my full length fence but I put this down to always having my fence parallel and always having a riving knife on.


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## Dodge (20 Jul 2011)

Chems":21r7alxq said:


> Steve Maskery":21r7alxq said:
> 
> 
> > The fence should have an auxiliary short fence which finishes after the top cutting tooth but before TDC of the blade.
> ...



Hear Hear,

I have kept quiet on this but have got to say that i fully agree - A full length fence give far better support and if set up correctly with riving knife in place can only result in greater accuracy. On the contrary I have seen some quite gastly accidents on tablesaws in the past where kickback has occurred due to lack of support from a short fence. 

Anyway - A full length fence is what came with my saw as standard - I will not be modifying it!


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## Chems (21 Jul 2011)

Yes a short fence can be just as bad allowing the wood to pivot around the blade getting that kickback you see in some American safety videos. 

I have the same saw as you Dodge but the 10" and its by far an away my best purchase to date. Will be implementing your little jig as soon as I finish my current project.


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## studders (21 Jul 2011)

I don't like short fences either, far too easy to push the wood so it twists onto the back of the saw when there is nothing to keep it going straight. If the wood starts to move under release of tension I can stop the cut, stop the saw, pull the wood back and recut. I've not had any major mishaps yet using the long fence but, I've had too many close calls using a short one. Personal choice but I go for a long fence.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jul 2011)

You'll probably be surprised to hear me say that I agree with you point about support - a long fence does give better support. BUT, and it's a big but, from the point of view of kickback safety a long fence is a much higher risk.
The fact that you have never had a kickback accident and therefore it must be OK is equivalent to saying you don't need to wear a seatbelt because you've never been in an RTA!
Ripping is not a push and forget operation, it requires technique and part of that technique is learning to push forwards.
I'm only advocating a short fence for ripping, not panel-cutting. The further the fence is from the blade the less support it offers, so there does come a point where the reduced support is more of a liability than the risk of kickback, but for ripping a short fence is a kickback-risk reducer.
S


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## studders (21 Jul 2011)

That makes sense Mr M, from a ripping point of view. Trouble with me is, much as I just can't handsaw squarely or level off with a paint brush in remotely straight lines, I can't seem to get 'pushing through straight' quite right; The close calls from not being able to do so out weighs the safety of using a short fence for me.


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## Karl (21 Jul 2011)

I think the problems of using a long rip fence come when the timber wants to move, as seen in this pic






This was one piece of beech ripped into 3 lengths - you can see how much the wood moved in the cut. You can also see the fence has been modified for use when ripping - unlock the two black knobs, slide the fence cover back and re-tighten the knobs.

Cheers

Karl


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jul 2011)

That's an excellent illustration, Karl.
Steve


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## MickCheese (21 Jul 2011)

adamwilliams":140oazki said:


> Does TDC really mean Top Dead Center & is it related to Blades only??



Yes, that is what it means but I think most people will know the term from engines when the piston is at the top of it's stroke.

Mick


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## Tenon (21 Jul 2011)

adamwilliams":2xboyfl2 said:


> Does TDC really mean Top Dead Center & is it related to Blades only??



Yes, it is an engineering term usually applied to reciprocating engines but in Steve's explanation he wanted to point out where the saw fence should end in relation to the circumference of the saw blade to reduce/avoid kickback.

Simon


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## Peter Sefton (21 Jul 2011)

I believe Steve Maskery is on the right line, when ripping the fence should be drawn back, traditionally the rip fence would be curved to mimic the shape of the saw blade and the fence would be set to just behind the down cutting gullet of the saw blade. The HSE recommend “When a fence is used it should be positioned with no more than an 18mm overlap of the blade to reduce the risk of ejection”. The reason for this is as Karl pointed out, once timber has been ripped it should be able to fall away from the saw and not get trapped between the fence and the up cutting teeth, you may get away with it in small section of stable timber but when cutting sawn plank stock which is often twisted and being rip cut for the first time the amount of tension released by cutting can cause major movement and twisting of the stock if this happens on a powerful rip saw you will not want it trapped between the saw and fence. 

A traditional dimension saw would usually have the fence set to the centre of the saw blade and a panel saw may have the fence further forward for cutting large panels or for when using a power feed.

You may find this link to the HSE useful to clarify what Steve and I are talking about, the video covers the main points.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/ripsaw.htm

I hold regular wood machining courses to show safe, productive and accurate use of all classic woodworking machines.

http://www.peterseftonfurnitureschool.c ... t_courses/

Cheers Peter


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## kirkpoore1 (21 Jul 2011)

Getting back to the original topic, I make push sticks like this:





(1)

I'm not saying you can't put your hand into the blade if something goes wrong, but it's certainly a whole lot harder. They work great. I make mine out of scrap OSB, with routed edges to keep it from chewing up my hands.

Kirk
(1) Photo shamelessly stolen from Bob Vaughan on the OWWM.org list, since I stole the design from him too...


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## mack9110000 (22 Jul 2011)

kirkpoore1":3kch1na0 said:


> Getting back to the original topic, I make push sticks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 
mack


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