# First Bed Design and build advice



## tibi (1 Jun 2022)

Hello, 

My old MDF bed is going to be unusable soon as the screws no longer hold and it squeaks terribly. I have decided to build myself a new double bed from kiln-dried oak. I have looked for some plans online to get some details and I have designed this bed. As I am a rather tall person, the size will be 220x180 cm - I do not know an english equivalent name, but it could be Tall King Size. 







Footboard and headboard will use mortice and tenon. Long side rails will be 120x28 mm and the posts will be 60x60 mm, glued from 2x30 mm boards. Long rails will use two unglued dowels and one hidden dowel bolt + half moon washer, so that they can be disassembled for transport. Ilustration picture below. 





Frame slats support will be 60x40 mm softwood boards. The end ones will be glued and screwed to the oak side rails and the two center ones will be connected with center bed rail fastener. Something like this





I will not have any center leg under the bed, so two support center rails must hold the weight without any vertical support. 

How much allowence should I keep for mattresses as I will not have them before I build the bed. Many times you buy a new mattress into an old bed, so you do not have exact dimensions beforehand and there must be a rule of thumb.

Can you please provide me some feedback as this is my first bed and I have convinced my wife to build this bed instead of buying from store, so it must be *well built* and *must not squeak*. 


(bed design is mine, other images are from google, no infringement intended)

Thank you.


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## Fitzroy (1 Jun 2022)

Looks very similar to a bed we bought a number of years ago from The Natural Bed company. My two thoughts are:
1. Can you get a 220cm matress for a reasonable price!
2. The bed slats will be very firm at that size making the bed firm also. Many beds have sprung slats with a centre support.

The Natural Bed company has some great assembly instructions (Assembly Instructions - Natural Bed Company) that you can understand their design from, and also a page on sprung slats. 

F.


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## tibi (1 Jun 2022)

Fitzroy said:


> Looks very similar to a bed we bought a number of years ago from The Natural Bed company. My two thoughts are:
> 1. Can you get a 220cm matress for a reasonable price!
> 2. The bed slats will be very firm at that size making the bed firm also. Many beds have sprung slats with a centre support.
> 
> ...


The half-moon washer system I took exactly from their assembly instructions and also got inspiration from their beds, so I am aware of them. 

I will use firm slats as I can build them myself. If it will affect sleeping negatively, I will purchase sprung slats later, as now I have to invest in mattresses now. I can get them 250-300 Eur/piece, and I need to buy two.


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## tibi (1 Jun 2022)

Another question is what bolt size is adequate for long rail connector? M8 or M6 is enough?


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## Jameshow (1 Jun 2022)

I'd half the thickness of your slats 20mm deep will be plenty.


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## tibi (1 Jun 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I'd half the thickness of your slats 20mm deep will be plenty.


Thanks, I have already realized that they are too thick, when I looked at commercially available slats. (20 - 25 mm) will be enough.


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## Fitzroy (1 Jun 2022)

The ones that came with my bed were M6. The first bed i received had a split in the long rail around where the bed bolt hole was drilled, the hole for the bed bolt is large and the remaining wood in this area is quite thin. Something to consider in your design.


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## tibi (1 Jun 2022)

Fitzroy said:


> The ones that came with my bed were M6. The first bed i received had a split in the long rail around where the bed bolt hole was drilled, the hole for the bed bolt is large and the remaining wood in this area is quite thin. Something to consider in your design.


Thanks Fitzroy,

I would like to buy longer headless screws so that I can move the whole further from the edge. 

I do not have a drill press, so what would be to the best way to drill this big hole? I have a hand electric drill or a brace. I have read that you can even use Forstner bit in a brace if you drill a pilot hole first.


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## Fitzroy (1 Jun 2022)

I do have a drill press so that's what I would use, However, there is no need for these to be at precisely 90° so a hand held drill should be fine. I use a forstner bit in my cordless Makita drill on the high torque low speed setting and it works fine, stumpy nubbs has a good video on what to think about to be safe. 

Alternatively you could router out or hand chisel a square recess. On commercial products it's a circle as this is easy to machine, but in my opinion there is no necessity for it to be such.


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## tibi (3 Jun 2022)

If I need to glue bed legs from two parts, as I cannot buy here thicker wood at the moment, should I glue them like this





or this 





Personally, I like the second option better visually, but I do not know if there is a reason behind to do it one way or another? 

Is it a better thing to cut out mortices first and then taper the leg or vice versa? 
Thanks.


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## tibi (3 Jun 2022)

But the headboard leg can only be done this way, as the opposite way would not make sense and I would need to glue like 4 boards together to yield the size. So maybe the answer to my own question would be that I should use the first option to keep all 4 legs the same.


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## Jameshow (3 Jun 2022)

I agree second one looks better. 

Usually tend to mortice first taper second. 

I do the harder process first followed by the easier one.


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## tibi (3 Jun 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I agree second one looks better.
> 
> Usually tend to mortice first taper second.
> 
> I do the harder process first followed by the easier one.


Would it be a big no, if I made the front legs the second way and back (headboard) legs the first way?


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## Jameshow (3 Jun 2022)

tibi said:


> Would it be a big no, if I made the front legs the second way and back (headboard) legs the first way?


I don't think so, 

I think the main driver is which aspect do you see first when you come into the room - front or side? that to me would suggest join orientation??


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## tibi (3 Jun 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I don't think so,
> 
> I think the main driver is which aspect do you see first when you come into the room - front or side? that to me would suggest join orientation??


This is how I see the bed when I enter the room. So I would leave the glue lines as in the picture below.


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## pe2dave (4 Jun 2022)

"I will not have any center leg under the bed, so two support center rails must hold the weight without any vertical support." I am suspicious of this statement? Mine is similar design (commercial) and needs that support? How strong are your supports? If that strong, will you (do you expect) any springing from them?
Key point - ensure you can assemble it in the bedroom, not just in the workshop!


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## Stevekane (4 Jun 2022)

Would there be any advantage in laying the side rail on the headboard leg before glueing on the extra thickness parts,,,(hope this makes sense!) so creating a lap joint?


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## pe2dave (4 Jun 2022)

Ease of doing the job perhaps?


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## tibi (4 Jun 2022)

pe2dave said:


> "I will not have any center leg under the bed, so two support center rails must hold the weight without any vertical support." I am suspicious of this statement? Mine is similar design (commercial) and needs that support? How strong are your supports? If that strong, will you (do you expect) any springing from them?
> Key point - ensure you can assemble it in the bedroom, not just in the workshop!


Thanks, My supports will be 60x40, where 60 mm will be vertical. I will use two of them instead of just center support. Two long rails will be assembled in the bedroom. So the frame construction will be a footboard (two legs, one board - mortice and tenon joint), Headboard(two legs, 4 boards, mortice, and tenon joint), and two long rails that will be assembled with screws and unglued dowels. Slat supports will be glued and screwed to the side rails and center rails will be mounted on the footboard and headboard with center support hardware, that is commercially available.


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## pe2dave (4 Jun 2022)

tibi said:


> Thanks, My supports will be 60x40, where 60 mm will be vertical. I will use two of them instead of just center support. Two long rails will be assembled in the bedroom. So the frame construction will be a footboard (two legs, one board - mortice and tenon joint), Headboard(two legs, 4 boards, mortice, and tenon joint), and two long rails that will be assembled with screws and unglued dowels. Slat supports will be glued and screwed to the side rails and center rails will be mounted on the footboard and headboard with center support hardware, that is commercially available.


So good to assemble (same as John Lewis) in the bedroom.
My concern was lateral support of the slats, but a 'head to foot' centre rail is what I have, which makes it solid. (JL have a 'central' foot from that rail to the floor)
50 years ago I made my first bed, 6x1 'slats' which didn't need head to foot support  (A readers digest project... if anyone is old enough to remember)


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## Ttrees (4 Jun 2022)

tibi said:


> This is how I see the bed when I enter the room. So I would leave the glue lines as in the picture below.
> View attachment 136925


If you can select your material so that the face grain is vertical,you can likely hide the joint line.
Custard mentioned selecting riftsawn material for legs before,
as it leaves a vertical grain line in two dimensions.
An interesting post which you can likely find easily enough.

Not ever looked into much design of beds, but from the ones I have dismantled,
they have had angle iron frames attaching to hefty cast iron brackets,
and assembled with coachscrews into hefty headboard legs and footboard legs.

I presume you may need some angle bits to stop those legs racking at the least, as the drawing appears quite slimline to me.


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## tibi (4 Jun 2022)

Ttrees said:


> If you can select your material so that the face grain is vertical,you can likely hide the joint line.
> Custard mentioned selecting riftsawn material for legs before,
> as it leaves a vertical grain line in two dimensions.
> An interesting post which you can likely find easily enough.
> ...


Thanks Tom for the reply, 

I will only get flat sawn boards from the supplier, but for the leg, I can cut out the portion with vertical grain, as the legs are narrow. 

I will try to use this connection with threaded insert, headless screw and half moon washer 





(image is courtesy of natural bed company)
as you can see, there are no angle brackets and coachscrews, only metric screws and dowels. Hopefully my bed will not rack, if their beds do not. 

But it is my first bed to be built, so I forsee some issues.


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## Ttrees (4 Jun 2022)

Couldn't find the specific thread I was looking for, but Custard's posts will be quite helpful
if you can find them.








Cut table legs from thick plank?


Looking for maple suitable for fairly short/ slim legs for a coffee table, the only wood I could find was in large planks, about 50mm x 200 - 250mm and 5 metres long. I want the finished legs to be about 30mm square and 500mm long - is it reasonable to rip a plank of that thickness so once it's...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk


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