# Window 10



## devonwoody (30 Jul 2015)

I have W7pro with XP mode available.

Why do I want or need to put in W10?, I am quite content with my present set up.

Would it benefit me in anyway?


(I recall the old saying nothing is ever free)


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## Alexam (30 Jul 2015)

It would be far better to wait until the new OS has sorted out all the bugs. That may take months yet, so don't change yet unless youi are prepared for a lot of hastle. It is free to W7 pro, so no rush.


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Jul 2015)

The only point where you're better advised to consider the risks is when MS switch off support (bug fixes) for 7. I've got 10 free in my system tray ready to install but im waiting until all the nerds have Guinea pigged it past its first bug fix


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## novocaine (30 Jul 2015)

windows 10 has been on insider testing (like beta testing but much much bigger) for the last 8 months, what is being rolled out now is probably the most finished version of windows ever at initial release (which isn't saying much I know, but it is very finished)
the roll out is very clever too, they are not just chucking it out there, when you signed up for it they took your system driver details, as drivers become available for your hardware they release windows 10 to you. 

anyway, why would you want it. 
how long does you machine take to boot? windows ten should half that. 
does your machine occasionally drive to a standstill because you've got to much open or something is happening in the background (updates virus scan etc.). windows 10 is designed not to do that
is it free, yes it is. 
is it going to be supported with new updates, security patches etc. that'll be windows 10 then. 
does it come with all sorts of clever little applications that you'll find uses for, no dowt but that's not really a reason.


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## ChrisR (30 Jul 2015)

I disliked Windows XP, I hated Windows 8.1 that came with my new laptop, now Windows 10 has downloaded automatically ??.

Did I want it, not really.

I know why Windows 10, because it’s ten times worse than all the previous versions of Windows, In my opinion.

Print that small it’s difficult to read.

No Email connection, just informs me that my account is out of date.

If you have an option, steer well clear.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, :evil: 

Take care.

Chris R.


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## RogerS (30 Jul 2015)

Chris R. Save your pain. 

Here is a good link you might like to consider!


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## devonwoody (30 Jul 2015)

RogerS":2aidgy5a said:


> Chris R. Save your pain.
> 
> Here is a good link you might like to consider!


++there is a problem with that link!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## woodpig (30 Jul 2015)

I'm a Mac user that has used most versions of Windows over the years until I retired a while back.

Windows 1 and 2 were so bad one was withdrawn from sale and the other saw customers given their money back.
Windows 3 was a joke (text based system made to look like a GUI) but actually worked so DOS users flocked to it eventually.
As a Mac user I actually liked Windows 95 even though it still relied on DOS. Windows 98 was ok as well. Not keen on Vista when it came out but I did some good work on XP. Hated Windows 7 and found it very unintuitive to use. Not even seen Windows 8 or 10. I wish them well but have to ask, how difficult is it to copy other respected OS's like Unix (Mac & Linux) and googles offerings? It looks like someone at MS has got a grip, I hope I'm right because we all gain when they feed off each other. :lol:


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## finneyb (30 Jul 2015)

novocaine":bggenqgc said:


> anyway, why would you want it.
> how long does you machine take to boot? windows ten should half that.
> does your machine occasionally drive to a standstill because you've got to much open or something is happening in the background (updates virus scan etc.). windows 10 is designed not to do that
> is it free, yes it is.
> ...



Downloaded W10 last night. Download went well. Migration of Favourites didn't happen, working on that now. 

Do I care if m/c boots faster? I haven't noticed it does and anyway it has zero importance to me. 

Looks to me as a pure marketing ploy by Microsoft to further become indispensable - probably why it had to given away free - it's just change for the sake of it under the guise of alleged progress. They need to keep pushing new stuff out whether its needed or not, cannot stand still else you stagnant.

I'm not finding the transfer easy, but that's me and it has to be done sometimes and the earlier the better IMO.
Microsoft have been suitably verbally abused today mainly on the basis of being '....... timewasters' 

Brian


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## DiscoStu (30 Jul 2015)

Ok I'm going to defend Microsoft. Cortana is a big news. Don't get it confused with Siri it is seriously powerful and is adaptive learning. It already monitors Microsoft's azure environment and can automatically provision additional capability based on when it knows the system is going to busy. So imagine Dominos Pizza, at 9am they are pretty quiet, at 7pm pretty busy and on a Tuesday its swapped because of their two for two on Tuesday so imagine that the system automatically gives Dominos 1 server at 9am, 10 at 7pm but on a Tuesday Dominos get 50 servers for 3 hours. And that is all done in advance and automatically by the system. 

That just one feature of the system. 

I personally wouldn't suggest anyone who's not techy should upgrade just yet. Let the pros get their hands on it and understand it and then there will be knowledge about to help. Also this is the last major MS release for the foreseeable future as it will just get gradual upgrades. Oh and Edge is the new browser which looks interesting. 

Eventually we'll all be on 10 like it or not!


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## damo8604 (30 Jul 2015)

I'm installing it as we speak..... Fingers crossed!


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## finneyb (30 Jul 2015)

I'm up and running now. Can't say I'm seeing better performance or anything that I may find useful. Oh, I can write and make notes on on webpages, well I can if I have a digital pen - I'm sure Paint would do this.

Would be a lot better if the nerds would use descriptions - Microsoft Edge wtf is that? As I see it is a basically an updated Internet Explorer, how they get Edge I just don't know.

Cortana - DiscoStu explains that above, I'll bow to superior knowledge I thought it was a digital assistant, and it may be. Allegedly, you can voice activate Cortana - you can even change her? name - now that could be really interesting; I wonder if they have a built in censor 

Brian


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2015)

I thought a Cortana was a Macchiato? :-"


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## Kalimna (31 Jul 2015)

Actually, Cortana was an A.I. given female form in the Halo games - Google form 'cortana halo 4'. There is quite a thing for Cortana in the world of cosplay. This is a woodwork forum, so feel free to google that too...

I haven't downloaded it yet, but I have no reason not to. I like MS, and their new approach with free distribution seems to bring them more in line with GoogleEmpire (c). I suspect, too, a very shrewd move combined with essentially identical cross-platform use. My current laptop is over three years old, so I wonder if it will pack enough techie clout to run Win10. 

Adam S


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## DiscoStu (31 Jul 2015)

Cortina is a digital assistant from an end user perspective but unlike Siri that is pretty dumb (although does a reasonable job) Cortana has the AI (Artificial intelligence) to grow and I believe will be come very powerful. Not sure if you want some AI learning all about your preferences and habits though! Especially if your misses uses your PC and Cortana assumes it's you and asks if you'd like her to open all of your commonly used websites! 

I think AI is powerful but there is real risks associated with it. Recently Stephen Hawking raised concerns along the lines of: if you play AI out then it could become dangerous as it could end up proposing that the best way to solve say a food shortage would be to reduce the number of consumers. I don't see Cortana trying to electrocute you just yet though!


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jul 2015)

RogerS":3bobjfu6 said:


> I thought a Cortana was a Macchiato? :-"


  I have to confess - I have absolutely no idea what either Cortana or a macchiato is.


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## DrPhill (31 Jul 2015)

Cortana? Think 'digital creepy doll.' who reports directly back to her bosses on everything that you ask her......


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## llangatwgnedd (31 Jul 2015)

Its far better than windows 8.1 that I had.

Just couldn't handle that 8.1.


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2015)

DiscoStu":1i3sf93b said:


> .....Not sure if you want some AI learning all about your preferences and habits though! Especially if your misses uses your PC and Cortana assumes it's you and asks if you'd like her to open all of your commonly used websites!
> ....!



You are so right. I can't believe the cretins that don't think through the broader implications of things like this. 

eBay and Amazon are equally as bad. "Based on your recent purchase/search we think you might be interested in ...."

My despair is deeper than that as it seems to me that there are too many projects/systems/financial systems etc where the designers blithely assume that everything will be hunky-dory and never stop to consider 'What if?'. Virgin Galactic is the latest ill-thought through system that never considered the 'What if'.

As dickm knows only too well (as he was involved in the development of it), there is a bloody good way of looking at things as epitomised by the excellent and enlightened OU course 'Systems Behaviour' and many of todays wunderkind would do well to go on the course.


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## Sporky McGuffin (31 Jul 2015)

DiscoStu":2xiolsjo said:


> if you play AI out then it could become dangerous as it could end up proposing that the best way to solve say a food shortage would be to reduce the number of consumers.



To be fair that is the only long-term solution. It's how it's addressed that matters though.



DrPhill":2xiolsjo said:


> Cortana? Think 'digital creepy doll.' who reports directly back to her bosses on everything that you ask her......



I think that's getting a bit tin-foil-hat. The processing is done in the cloud, but I doubt Microsoft have the storage or desire to record every individual request; instead they'll be interested in broad trends which are actually more useful when anonymous. Think along the lines of predicting the behaviour of a crowd (fairly easy) as opposed to an individual in that crowd (very hard).



RogerS":2xiolsjo said:


> Virgin Galactic is the latest ill-thought through system that never considered the 'What if'.



I find it very hard to believe that Virgin Galactic hasn't considered pretty much every possibility - given the hundreds, if not thousands of professional engineers involved in that sort of project.

Back to Windows 10; I've changed over on my laptop which was on 8.1 and it seems fine. I'll leave the desktop on Windows 7 for a while though as that has some less common applications and hardware on it and I'd like to be sure they'll work well with 10.


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2015)

Sporky McGuffin":3usyts79 said:


> ....
> 
> 
> RogerS":3usyts79 said:
> ...



Clearly not very good ones because they failed to ask the question 'What would happen if the pilot deploys the feathering system before the spacecraft has got up to the required speed?' and designed a system to prevent it. That's what I mean by asking 'What if?'.

So the pilot did deploy the feathering system before it got up to speed and Virgin Galactic crashed killing one of the flight crew and injuring the other.


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## CHJ (31 Jul 2015)

DiscoStu":1p8ipm0u said:


> ...... Not sure if you want some AI learning all about your preferences and habits though! Especially if your misses uses your PC and Cortana assumes it's you and asks if you'd like her to open all of your commonly used websites!
> ..



But surly the easy answer to that on any computer is to have multiple accounts and differing log on PINS.

Keeps both personal preferences, personal communications and sensitive account details separate at the common access level at least.

Doing otherwise may not be as bad as leaving your keys in the car ignition, but can lead to a very cluttered desktop at the very least and potentially erratic file records.


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## Sporky McGuffin (31 Jul 2015)

RogerS":1i817syo said:


> Clearly not very good ones because they failed to ask the question 'What would happen if the pilot deploys the feathering system before the spacecraft has got up to the required speed?' and designed a system to prevent it. That's what I mean by asking 'What if?'.
> 
> So the pilot did deploy the feathering system before it got up to speed and Virgin Galactic crashed killing one of the flight crew and injuring the other.



Hindsight always offers a clearer view. How many "what ifs" did they consider and mitigate against? How many disasters were solved before they ever happened?

There comes a point where you can't protect absolutely against human error. If they'd locked out the pilot's ability to do whatever it was he did, might that have prevented him solving a different problem?


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## Benchwayze (31 Jul 2015)

There's talk of Microsoft going over to a subscription model, if you want to continue accessing the internet via Windows. I am looking for a nice Mac!


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## Fergal (31 Jul 2015)

I'm a long term Windows user (since v3.1) and have used and supported every version in a professional capacity since then. 

Some of the versions have been good (Windows 95, XP, 7), others have been dreadful (ME, Vista, 8 ). IMHO, Windows 7 is the best version ever in terms of usability and reliability. The "improvements" made to Windows 8 may benefit touch screen devices, but actually make using a keyboard/mouse system more awkward unless some fiddling is undertaken.

As for Windows 10, I've been using it for a while now and it is even worse than Windows 8! It has issues with accessing files on network shares and we've had problems with some older applications (from Microsoft!) which won't install properly. As far as usability goes, it's slightly better than 8, but equally frustrating to use in a different way!

My advise would be to hang onto Windows 7 for as long as you possibly can.


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## finneyb (31 Jul 2015)

Benchwayze":30m4nxp4 said:


> There's talk of Microsoft going over to a subscription model, if you want to continue accessing the internet via Windows. I am looking for a nice Mac!



I feel sure you are right. It's a better way of getting an income stream ie every month, rather than a one off purchase, every few years.
And at the end of the day they are there to make money - your role in life is to provide the money

Brian


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2015)

Sporky McGuffin":1sqd1jhy said:


> RogerS":1sqd1jhy said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly not very good ones because they failed to ask the question 'What would happen if the pilot deploys the feathering system before the spacecraft has got up to the required speed?' and designed a system to prevent it. That's what I mean by asking 'What if?'.
> ...



Sorry, we'll have to disagree on this one. Something as fundamental as the feathering system was ignored.


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## ChrisR (31 Jul 2015)

Cortana, I asked how I could get my favourites list onto Windows 10, answer, (subject not found), so another useless feature. =D> 

It will of course track your every movement on the internet, no doubt to the benefit of Microsoft. :evil: 

So Cortana has been switched off, on my computer, I think, as I am really not sure with this rubbish Windows 10, what is on or off. :? 

The most consistent message from Windows 10, is (Hmm we can’t reach this page) :evil: 

How can I get Windows 98, that version, I sort of understood to some extent.

Chris R.


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## RogerP (31 Jul 2015)

Benchwayze":2ba5n1ji said:


> There's talk of Microsoft going over to a subscription model, if you want to continue accessing the internet via Windows. I am looking for a nice Mac!



I been using Linux for years and I cringe when I read these MS horror stories.

Just load Ubuntu and forget all the pain....


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## mseries (31 Jul 2015)

ChrisR":3k6kie1f said:


> /
> 
> How can I get Windows 98, that version, I sort of understood to some extent.
> 
> Chris R.


PM me if you are serious about win98, I have a disk you can have and we can come to some arrangement over the licence key. NB windows2000 was far better than 98, got that too if you want it


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## woodfarmer (31 Jul 2015)

I will stick with Linux


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## mseries (1 Aug 2015)

woodfarmer":3lv7fx30 said:


> I will stick with Linux




Me too


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## ChrisR (1 Aug 2015)

[


mseries":2wevsnf8 said:


> ChrisR":2wevsnf8 said:
> 
> 
> > /
> ...



Many thanks for the offer, but I don’t have any computer knowledge to go changing or adjusting things, that’s why it’s so frustrating when Microsoft just dumps a new operating system on my computer.

I do have the 98 system on disks, as I did have a laptop running that, but on the turn of the century the laptop crashed, and would never boot again, so it was a bin job for it, shame because it was a nice computer.

This HP laptop I am running is only just over twelve months old, but I am now considering changing to a (Mac) machine, just two things I have to do, convince myself that I could get my head around a completely new system, (I am not of the computer generation), the other thing is much more difficult, convince the long haired boss that I need to buy another computer, she just doesn’t see the point in computers and is not one bit interested in them. Maybe she has the answer, forget computers and leave all the unnecessary stress they cause, behind. :roll: 

Chris R.


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## RogerP (1 Aug 2015)

You'll find a Mac vastly different to any Windows OS.

... and what's all this about the computer generation? It's those of us now with free bus pass who first had a Home PC - not today's young whipper-snappers - they weren't even a twinkle in their father's eye


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## mseries (1 Aug 2015)

@ChrisR, I understand what you are saying about not being of the computer generation, but you may not need a new computer, you may be able to use Linux on the one you already have. Just need to get someone to help you decide and try it for you


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## finneyb (1 Aug 2015)

ChrisR":1i2zln15 said:


> Cortana, I asked how I could get my favourites list onto Windows 10, answer, (subject not found), so another useless feature. =D>
> 
> Chris R.



Chris

To import favourites

Open Edge
Top right hand corner there is an icon, a series of horizontal lines, click it.
On the righthand side in blue you will see ' import favourites' click it

I had the same problem.

What's needed is a migration package, I couldn't find the snipping tool or my camera videos - found them both now.

HTH

Brian


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## DrPhill (1 Aug 2015)

Sporky McGuffin":2lh1szih said:


> DrPhill":2lh1szih said:
> 
> 
> > Cortana? Think 'digital creepy doll.' who reports directly back to her bosses on everything that you ask her......
> ...



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...crosofts-intrusive-terms-of-use-10432300.html


> Turn off Cortana
> 
> Again, this could be a problem, as the Cortana search function, which is similar to Apple's Siri, has been highly praised as one of the best functions of Windows 10.
> 
> ...


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

RogerP":1uhthjzy said:


> Benchwayze":1uhthjzy said:
> 
> 
> > There's talk of Microsoft going over to a subscription model, if you want to continue accessing the internet via Windows. I am looking for a nice Mac!
> ...



Not an Ubuntu fan (or rather Gnome3/Unity) but I do agree that Linux is a very worthwhile alternative. I've used it for years and whilst I accept it probably won't make it into the mainstream corporate environment (as a desktop OS), for a home user it's almost a no brainer particularly if you want a no cost option.

It's possible that you'll find there are applications you can't get or take some aggravation to get running but all the usual stuff is there ready to go. If you have any technical desire most of the problem stuff is possible to get going anyway.


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

I tried running Linux, but what I ended up with was ubuntu. The interface looked a little primitive; rather like those childrens' ready laptops you buy for the grandchildren at Christmas.


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":2uwm9luk said:


> I tried running Linux, but what I ended up with was ubuntu. The interface looked a little primitive; rather like those childrens' ready laptops you buy for the grandchildren at Christmas.



That's the beauty of Linux, you're free to do what you like so it doesn't have to look primitive if that's what appeals to you. Either install a different distribution that looks (more like) the way you want or if you're that way inclined tinker away to your heart's content....


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":23gs4xka said:


> I tried running Linux, but what I ended up with was ubuntu. The interface looked a little primitive; rather like those childrens' ready laptops you buy for the grandchildren at Christmas.



That's the beauty of Linux, you're free to do what you like so it doesn't have to look primitive if that's what appeals to you. Either install a different distribution that looks (more like) the way you want or if you're that way inclined tinker away to your heart's content....

here you go:

http://distrowatch.com/


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

Sorry, but now I am confuzzled. What is Linux, and why do I get Ubuntu when I download and install?

I think I will go and sit in my newly cleared up garden, and listen to some Mendelssohn... :lol:


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":3fcdzwvm said:


> I tried running Linux, but what I ended up with was ubuntu. The interface looked a little primitive; rather like those childrens' ready laptops you buy for the grandchildren at Christmas.



Linux is the kernel, then there are many distributions that build around this, Ubuntu is one, Linux Mint is another and this is my preferred one - it was forked from Ubuntu, meaning that the Mint developers started with the Ubuntu code. The distribution you tried may not have had the correct video drivers for your computer and perhaps ran using some generic works everywhere driver. Try other distributions, there are many and all are Linux but will look different to one another.


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":1criofrl said:


> Sorry, but now I am confuzzled. What is Linux, and why do I get Ubuntu when I download and install?


You get Ubuntu because you downloaded and installed Ubuntu. Linux on it's own isn't much use to regular uses, it's the kernel in the heart of the operating system. Around the kernel are all sort of layers of software providing different services. All these are wrapped up into a distribution or distro. Ubuntu is one, Linux Mint is another, Redhat is one as is Debian, Crunchbang, Puppylinux, there are loads all offering different things and aimed at different uses. Some work well on old, low power machines some don't. Some have better support for different types of hardware out of the box.

I am using the latest Mint on a new laptop


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":argouag5 said:


> Sorry, but now I am confuzzled. What is Linux, and why do I get Ubuntu when I download and install?
> 
> I think I will go and sit in my newly cleared up garden, and listen to some Mendelssohn... :lol:



As said, Linux is the kernel but I think for the sake of what we're talking about here we can safely call the whole shooting match Linux - ie the operating system, desktop environment and suite of applications etc

Ubuntu is just one of a many versions of Linux each with their own set of applications, desktop environment and so on. It's this desktop environment that gives you the look and feel of what you're using. I don't care for Ubuntu's (Unity) but there are many others out there, some fairly basic in terms of look but still very powerful (Openbox for example) and some very feature rich (KDE for example). If you don't want to install and configure these yourself then just pick a different version that has the desktop environment that appeals to you already configured.


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

Okay... Got that, but I went to the link that Scotty provided, and there was a plethora of names, but no download button. 
When I was using the Ubuntu, I noticed that booting up my PC I was given a choice of Ubuntu or Windows. I suspected that my machine was still being run by Windows, but I was accessing it via ubuntu. That didn't seem to make any sense, plus the problem of slow starting was still there. (Five minutes before I can actually do anything.) I've stripped out as much as I can in the way of greedy programs, but owning to the fact that Windows is on a partitioned drive, it's still running out of space. Hopeless. I don't know how to repartition. (Although I am told I can) I am leary of trying it, because I don't want to torpedo my only means of accessing the internet! So I am going to buy a Mac!


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

mseries":28eu248g said:


> Crunchbang



Now you're talking and has been my choice for quite a while but development has ceased. BunsenLabs is trying to take up where it left off....


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":1dctmhm8 said:


> Okay... Got that, but I went to the link that Scotty provided, and there was a plethora of names, but no download button.
> When I was using the Ubuntu, I noticed that booting up my PC I was given a choice of Ubuntu or Windows. I suspected that my machine was still being run by Windows, but I was accessing it via ubuntu. That didn't seem to make any sense, plus the problem of slow starting was still there. (Five minutes before I can actually do anything.) I've stripped out as much as I can in the way of greedy programs, but owning to the fact that Windows is on a partitioned drive, it's still running out of space. Hopeless. I don't know how to repartition. (Although I am told I can) I am leary of trying it, because I don't want to torpedo my only means of accessing the internet! So I am going to buy a Mac!



If you click on any of the distributions it will take you to another page where you can choose the version you want to download. It sounds like you installed Ubuntu after Windows onto a free partition and you're now dual booting with the GRUB bootloader. All of that is perfectly fine and is what many folk do. Going the other way and installing Windows afterwards is not always plain sailing though.

Going out to buy a Mac is probably a little drastic but I would admit that (by the sounds of it and no disrespect intended) you could quite easily lose the lot if you're not careful but if you managed to get Ubuntu on there then there's no reason not to use that same partition for something else.


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":3mmjfpgv said:


> Okay... Got that, but I went to the link that Scotty provided, and there was a plethora of names, but no download button.
> When I was using the Ubuntu, I noticed that booting up my PC I was given a choice of Ubuntu or Windows. I suspected that my machine was still being run by Windows, but I was accessing it via ubuntu. That didn't seem to make any sense, plus the problem of slow starting was still there. (Five minutes before I can actually do anything.) I've stripped out as much as I can in the way of greedy programs, but owning to the fact that Windows is on a partitioned drive, it's still running out of space. Hopeless. I don't know how to repartition. (Although I am told I can) I am leary of trying it, because I don't want to torpedo my only means of accessing the internet! So I am going to buy a Mac!



I don't know how you installed, it looks like it might be 'dual boot'. So when you started up you were offered Ubuntu or Windows. Both OS are installed and you get to choose which one you use. I can't comment on why it's taking so long, you'll need to give us more information for that. Loading the boot menu, the place where you get to choose, shouldn't take long because at this point all it's done is search for any OSs and list them. None have been started. Whichever OS is used it will only work within the partitions it knows about so if you have only 20GB for windows it'll never be able to use any other part of the disk.

If you want to read up on this I suggest take a look at the Linux Mint website and their forums and installation instructions


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

scotty38":bs5m3pwp said:


> mseries":bs5m3pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Crunchbang
> ...



I went through a spell of playing with obscure distros, #!, Puppylinux, Mijnpup and some other distro with a TLA that I can't remember (CJD or something)


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

mseries":uhuzjw54 said:


> scotty38":uhuzjw54 said:
> 
> 
> > mseries":uhuzjw54 said:
> ...



Same here really although my first real favourite was Fedora and I used that for a long time until Gnome3 came along and I just didn't like it so started hopping around and must have tried most of the obvious ones at one time or another. I had Arch for a while but its rolling release eventually did for me and I couldn't recover it so went elsewhere, Gentoo, Slack, OpenSuse, Mint, Sabayon you name it but all of them had something I either didn't like or couldn't be bothered to work around. That's when I found #! and it's minimal look and speedy operation just suited me.

I now have Debian on a couple of machines but still run #! with updates coming from Debian repositories instead.


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## DrPhill (3 Aug 2015)

I have tried Ubuntu - but I did not like the desktop either except the way the taskbar/launcher worked, and menus at the top. Those were nice. But orange and purple? No thanks. Whatever were they thinking?

I use Mint/Mate and find it fits the bill just right. Easy for windows users to adjust, seems a bit faster (less sophisticated graphics routines?) and a bit less customisable than Ubuntu. I let my SO have my old laptop. I said that I would 'support' Linux or let her look after Windows, her choice. Twenty minutes later she said 'can I try the Linux now?'. I said 'You are'. 'Oh, I guess I will stick with this then'. She is not a fan of technology or change, so that is huge recommendation for anyone looking to move from MS. Four(?) years on and only a couple of gripes with compatibility (Linux that is (hammer) ).


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## RogerP (3 Aug 2015)

Well I like the default Ubuntu colours but, of course, with Linux everything can be changed, you can even have pea green if you'd rather.  

It does seem easy for MS users to swap to as the many I've converted over the years have had no problems.

Mine seems fast - everything is pretty well instant. Boot is 35 seconds (timed) and close down is 5 seconds.
Gimp loads in 5 seconds. Libre Office Writer about 2 seconds. The slowest is Firefox which can take about 15 seconds on first boot of the day.


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

I can't open the file I downloaded. Windows doesn't recognise it. 
Do I have to make a CD copy? :-s


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":35lz8tkn said:


> I can't open the file I downloaded. Windows doesn't recognise it.
> Do I have to make a CD copy? :-s




What file ? The Ubuntu/Other Linux download ?, does it have a .iso file extension ? If so then you need to burn to a DVD _as an image_.


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## RogerS (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":n5jjz801 said:


> .... So I am going to buy a Mac!



You won't regret it, John. Any help needed, just ask. There are loads of sites that help PC users migrate/explain the differences etc.

How are you going to move your data over or aren't you going to bother?


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

mseries.

I burned it to a disc, but I can't open anything on it. There is no set-up file. I have to choose s program. As I am lost and haven't a clue what these files are, I can't even begin to choose a program! 

I think maybe a Mac will be the best. 
And I thought I was PC savvy too! :mrgreen:


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## Benchwayze (3 Aug 2015)

RogerS":aji073gy said:


> Benchwayze":aji073gy said:
> 
> 
> > .... So I am going to buy a Mac!
> ...



If I do go to Mac, I would have to save a load of Ms Word files. It's five years of work I daren't lose. All the rest that matter are personal photographs, so that would be all I want to move TBH. I hear that Mac aren't too good for gaming, but as I have just two games I use, I can live without it! 

I'll have to think it over Roger. 

Cheers 

John


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":ckdo966n said:


> mseries.
> 
> I burned it to a disc, but I can't open anything on it. There is no set-up file. I have to choose s program. As I am lost and haven't a clue what these files are, I can't even begin to choose a program!
> 
> ...


you probably didn't save it as an image, you need to use a DVD writer program not drag and drop in Explorer. The disk then gets hundreds of files written to it - none of which are windows files though some may open in windows. This is the Linux distribution and nothing to do with windows. You put it in your drive and reboot and it will load Linux, not install it, this is a live disk and lets you use Linux without making any changes to your hard drive.


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":2don7fb0 said:


> mseries.
> 
> I burned it to a disc, but I can't open anything on it. There is no set-up file. I have to choose s program. As I am lost and haven't a clue what these files are, I can't even begin to choose a program!
> 
> ...



You need to boot your pc from the disk, although if you're struggling at this stage a Mac may be an easier (albeit more expensive) option :mrgreen:


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## mseries (3 Aug 2015)

scotty38":7dns3djx said:


> Benchwayze":7dns3djx said:
> 
> 
> > mseries.
> ...



He'd struggle just the same to install OSX but buying something pre-installed is obviously going to be easier. If benchwayze was more local I'd go round armed with some distros and try to get him up and running


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

Exactly, the option he's considering is going out and buying a Mac, (expensive) job done.


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## scotty38 (3 Aug 2015)

mseries":butouiar said:


> scotty38":butouiar said:
> 
> 
> > Benchwayze":butouiar said:
> ...



Good point, if by some miracle you're passing near Lincoln any time soon pop in and I'll give you a hand too.....


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## RogerS (3 Aug 2015)

mseries":6f1zb3r1 said:


> scotty38":6f1zb3r1 said:
> 
> 
> > Benchwayze":6f1zb3r1 said:
> ...



No, that's simply not true. Installing OSX is very very very easy. It just does it all.


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## RogerS (3 Aug 2015)

John, if you do go down the Mac route and want a new one then check out the Apple refurb site for discounted models.


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## devonwoody (4 Aug 2015)

I downloaded it once some years ago, ubantu and Linux . But could not make sense of it.

Perhaps if someone ran a web seminar on it, or some basic instruction to follow I could get started .


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## mseries (4 Aug 2015)

devonwoody":3tx4i2jy said:


> I downloaded it once some years ago, ubantu and Linux . But could not make sense of it.
> 
> Perhaps if someone ran a web seminar on it, or some basic instruction to follow I could get started .



Loads out there on the web, maybe too much and therefore overwhelming. What stage did you get too ? Is this too basic for you ? (that's for an older version but it's no different to the latest)
http://www.wikihow.com/Install-Linux-Mint

EDIT: here's a link to the PDF user guide for the latest version of Linux Mint http://www.linuxmint.com/documentation/ ... h_17.2.pdf


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## devonwoody (4 Aug 2015)

Nseries, if I installed again, I would not know how to get to your link because I was no longer in windows.
It's questions like will my apps work with Linux.

My present mood is to stay with w7 and don't bother with anything new.


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## RogerS (4 Aug 2015)

devonwoody":35kgy89m said:


> ....
> My present mood is to stay with w7 and don't bother with anything new.



"You know it makes sense, Rodney"


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## mseries (4 Aug 2015)

devonwoody":1x1t4w62 said:


> Nseries, if I installed again, I would not know how to get to your link because I was no longer in windows.
> It's questions like will my apps work with Linux.
> 
> My present mood is to stay with w7 and don't bother with anything new.



You will need to get Linux versions of the apps you need - the distribution may already have them included or you can probably download them from the central repository via the system itself - all with no charge. Windows versions won't work on Linux (without something such as Wine - which is adding more complications). There are equivalent for most things such as email clients, word processting, photo imaging, browsers, CD ripping, CD/DVD playback. Things such as drivers for your devices may prove to be harder to get round, it depends on what you plug into your computer, I am thinking of things such as displays, scanners/printers, cameras, etc. - it depends on what you have, my wife's HP printer works fine for me. Very new and very old hardware may have less support than devices made in the last few years. Computers made for Windows 8 might have issues with UEFI.

Re-clicking on links, you just click it as you would on Windows. Opera, Firefox and Chrome all have Linux versions. Or do you mean while you are trying the live CD ? - this is why I linked to the PDF so you can print the parts you need to read while they computer is booting. NB the point of the live CD is to try Linux without damaging your existing system. You put the disk in, reboot (might need to ensure it will boot from the DVD) and away you go.


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## Benchwayze (4 Aug 2015)

Well,

I burned the disc. but my PC just doesn't seem to know it is there, and there is no 'auto-play'. There is no set-up file on the disc either, so maybe the burn wasn't correct, or it just isn't any use on my PC; because there might be some glitch in the Windows set-up. 

I am scrapping this PC. More trouble than it's worth. I think I will have a look at the Mac alternative.


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## mseries (4 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":3knx3bhb said:


> Well,
> 
> I burned the disc. but my PC just doesn't seem to know it is there, and there is no 'auto-play'. There is no set-up file on the disc either, so maybe the burn wasn't correct, or it just isn't any use on my PC; because there might be some glitch in the Windows set-up.
> 
> I am scrapping this PC. More trouble than it's worth. I think I will have a look at the Mac alternative.



If you get to Windows you've gone too far. These disks are not Windows applications, they contain the new Operating System. Maybe my nomenclature is confusing, Windows is an Operating System (OS) so Linux needs to boot in favour of Windows. Your disk could be used on a machine that has no OS installed at all.

You will need to make sure your PC attempts to boot from the DVD before the HDD. (Imagine your computer is brand new, without even windows installed, the hardware (actually the software on the chips aka the BIOS) looks for an operating system to load up. It can look in many places in order but it usually finds an OS on the Hard Disk, now we want it to find it on the DVD drive to boot from our DVD so we must make it look at the DVD drive before it looks at the HDD. [Do you remember the olden days when sometimes we had to put a floppy in and reboot to install some drivers, it was doing the same thing. In that case it loaded the drivers then quit.]

You may need to adjust the bios settings to make it do this. Do you get a message flash up saying something like "Press F12 to adjust BIOS" ? NB it might not be F12 on your system.


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## Benchwayze (4 Aug 2015)

Yes. I do remember having to load files off a floppy, when doing a Windows XP set-up. That's why I can't go back to XP of course. I can't access the floppies I have. I could put the files onto a CD of course, via a USB floppy-drive I have, but the CD wouldn't be 'found' by the Windows set-up, so I'd be no better off. 

I have to go into set up I assume, to cause the boot to go to the CD drive first. No problem 
I'll try it this evening, but this is the last attempt to get this PC working!


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## scotty38 (4 Aug 2015)

and just to add you probably won't need to change the BIOS, there should be an option (via F12 or whatever) to just change the boot device that one time ie you just select from a menu


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## scotty38 (4 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":rxh9lxg6 said:


> I'll try it this evening, but this is the last attempt to get this PC working!



Tell you what, if this is the end of the road for you, stick it in a box, post it to me and, if it can be done, I'll install a Linux distribution of your choice and send it back...


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## Benchwayze (4 Aug 2015)

scotty38":37sp6081 said:


> Benchwayze":37sp6081 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll try it this evening, but this is the last attempt to get this PC working!
> ...



Hi Scotty, 

That's extremely civil of you. 

I could do with a change of scenery and my car could do with a run to blow the tubes a little. (1000 miles a year doesn't really cut it!)

As soon as I can arrange someone to sit with my wife, I'll bring the PC (or drive?) over; with your permit of course! 
I have to go to Leicestershire too I think, to meet another forumite, so I can do a round trip maybe. 

regards

John


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## scotty38 (4 Aug 2015)

No problem at all and we'll need the whole pc....


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## mseries (4 Aug 2015)

That's a very kind offer scotty38, well done sir


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## devonwoody (4 Aug 2015)

I,m down devonway, perhaps when next time in Newport pagnell 

I could extend my trip and put it om an old laptop?

Thanks all for suggestions and help.


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## Benchwayze (4 Aug 2015)

scotty38":1ety5lb6 said:


> No problem at all and we'll need the whole pc....



Okay Scotty, 


Thanks again for your kind offer. 
As you need the whole thing, I had better get a new case then! The top is attached only by some leads!
Useful case as there are very accessible USB sockets on top, plus a hard drive dock, for tranferring files. I find that very useful! 

John


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## mseries (4 Aug 2015)

Grrr I just scrapped a couple of large PC cases that someone could have had.


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## DrPhill (4 Aug 2015)

devonwoody":35c2hyf4 said:


> I,m down devonway, perhaps when next time in Newport pagnell
> 
> I could extend my trip and put it om an old laptop?



I am in Minehead. A little closer, and if you dropped by I could try installing Linux Mint for you. Alternately, can you boot from CD? USB stick? 

Play with your laptop at boot time look for options like 'boot options' while the screen is still black with white writing. Often holding down F11 or F12 while starting will give you an extra set of menu options. Have a look at these and see if you can see stuff about booting from CD or USB. If so, I will send you a USB or CD to try.

Phill


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## worn thumbs (4 Aug 2015)

I am really glad to see so many people willing to help others access the world of Linux.I have been using various forms since 2006 and can't see any reason to go back to Windows.I have read elsewhere that Microsoft will make the new version a subscription service in the next few years and since they are very,very keen to package Office 365 with computers,what happens to your data on their servers should you decide not to renew a subscription?

If you are interested in Linux,take a look at distrowatch.com and try downloading an .iso of one of the popular distros.Burn it to a DVD as an .iso image and try rebooting your system from the DVD.Run it live before permanently installing to see if you can get along with the slight differences.Curiously,Microsoft have been reluctant to distribute disks of their operating systems for a few years.I have a dozen or so Linux disks and the originators are quite happy for me to give them away.Other than very specialised applications,almost any task can be done with Linux;Gimp will do pretty much anything that Photoshop will accomplish,Libre Office copes with almost anything that the Seattle company throws at it,CAD included and if you are a real techy you won't need me to tell you what CAELinux can be used for.Did I mention no viruses?


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## DrPhill (4 Aug 2015)

worn thumbs":38njai4f said:


> I am really glad to see so many people willing to help others access the world of Linux.



It was folk on here that encouraged me to try linux some five years ago. It did not take me long to become a convert.

Example: Yesterday my 'software manager' started playing up. [[ For non linux folk, this is like 'app store for linux mint' but better, because stuff only makes it onto the store if the builders of the linux you are using like it. So likely it will work well and not send all your data back to some evil empire]]. So, my 'software manager' stopped working. I want to use it. I went to the linux mint forums and asked for help. Slackers took almost 45 minutes to suggest a solution. Bet M$ could do that. NOT. Note that this is FREE software and FREE support from people that love this stuff. Much like free advice about woodworking given by enthusiastic woodworkers on a woodworking forum.

Four? five? years almost problem free running two+ laptops. 

The code is open source, which makes it very, very hard for anyone (especially government agencies) to put in security breaches.

I could go on. I probably do.


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## Benchwayze (4 Aug 2015)

Yes you do go on, Dr Phil, but it's all useful stuff and anyway, we like you! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

John


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## devonwoody (5 Aug 2015)

This fellah says Windows 10 is poison.

http://skipallenpaints.com/2015/08/04/w ... nadequate/


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## scotty38 (5 Aug 2015)

Not saying he's wrong and I have no axe to grind one way or another but I'm pretty sure you could pick any subject and go off on the internet and find a glowing and also an equally damning report.

I think the "mistake" he made was diving in too soon rather than letting other people find the issues. I'm well aware someone has to be first but that's the risk you take....


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## Sporky McGuffin (5 Aug 2015)

I've now rolled back my laptop (a Lenovo Yoga Pro) to Win8.1 - most of Windows 10 looked like improvements as far as the user interface was concerned, but there were too many issues for me to continue with it for now. Trackpad gestures didn't work any more, it didn't reliably switch between tablet and laptop modes and it seemed to run slower and hotter than before.

That said it still wasn't as bad as my Linux experience some years back.


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## williams1185 (5 Aug 2015)

dont know if its any use but you can go back to previous os by going into settings on windows 10 it gives you a month to do so just done it and my pc is back on windows 7 again and seems to be ok cheers , ian


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## Sporky McGuffin (5 Aug 2015)

Aye - sorry, should have mentioned that. The rollback was pretty quick and painless on mine too.


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## williams1185 (5 Aug 2015)

as an add on to my previous post pc is much faster and cleaner like a new install without having the hassle of reinstalling everything ,ian


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## woodfarmer (5 Aug 2015)

Sporky McGuffin":34rhib8t said:


> Aye - sorry, should have mentioned that. The rollback was pretty quick and painless on mine too.



I can't find the roll back command for Dos 6.2 ?

never mind I still have the source code for CPm 2.2 and the BIOS I wrote for it.


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## finneyb (6 Aug 2015)

I'm finding that W10 is working well. No problems once I found how to migrate favourites and found the snipping tool and my videos.
It appears more efficient than W7 - by that I mean the laptop doesn't get as warm when a play certain internet-based games. 

Brian


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## Bigdanny (16 Aug 2015)

My PC died a couple of weeks ago, tried to fix and use a different PC of similar spec but no joy. So last week bit the bullet and ordered new twin processor thing. Ask the shop to install Win 10 and Suse Linux Dual booting system.
1st impressions are Win 10 is like a glorified smartphone now. All programs seem to open in a browser. Will continue trying with it as some things are easier on it. But I think for stability I will continue using and learning Linux as I have tried a few times in the past and its never quite been there.
Danny


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## mseries (16 Aug 2015)

Bigdanny":3ggwj4x1 said:


> ...But I think for stability I will continue using and learning Linux as I have tried a few times in the past and its never quite been there.
> Danny



Depends on what you use it for of course and I haven't uses Suse on a single user machine, but certainly Linux Mint IS there.


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## monkeybiter (16 Aug 2015)

I tried Suse a good few years ago and decided I couldn't be bothered with the Linux learning curve, a couple of months ago I installed Mint to duel boot on my W8.1 laptop [UEFI iwas such a pain] and I haven't booted W8.1 since. Painless.
I've now installed Mint as the only OS on a desktop machine after checking that all the software I need for that machine is available for Linux.

From what little I've read about W10, there's no more to learn when swapping to Mint [and probably some other distro's] than there would be 'upgrading' windows.


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## MMUK (16 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":2a9u2tp6 said:


> I am scrapping this PC. More trouble than it's worth. I think I will have a look at the Mac alternative.



I'll take it back off your hands then. I built it as a gaming rig and it was bloody good :mrgreen:


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## Benchwayze (16 Aug 2015)

MMUK":2mfwootc said:


> Benchwayze":2mfwootc said:
> 
> 
> > I am scrapping this PC. More trouble than it's worth. I think I will have a look at the Mac alternative.
> ...



PM sent. 

John


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## toast (18 Aug 2015)

i bet gchq are loving all the new data lol
glad i switched to linux a long time back


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## scotty38 (20 Aug 2015)

Benchwayze":2u2kuwp0 said:


> MMUK":2u2kuwp0 said:
> 
> 
> > Benchwayze":2u2kuwp0 said:
> ...



I take it you're not heading up here for a Linux build then?


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## Mark-numbers (22 Aug 2015)

for everyday use Mac is the best OS I've used (never used linux).

Unfortunately some software I have to use for work isn't available on Mac and if it is just doesn't run well at all. I looked at running parallels but my not technically minded self couldn't install windows as required onto it.

So I bit the bullet and bought a Lenovo Laptop which runs I7 and all the ram needed, solid state drive etc etc - This runs on Windows10 and in comparison to the Macbook Pro I have, its so slow and the battery life is terrible!! Cost almost as much as My Mac too!!!! 

But I persevere as needs must!


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## devonwoody (27 Sep 2015)

I read at another forum windows 10 is going into your windows update automatically without control. Is this correct?

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new ... st-in-case


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## RogerS (27 Sep 2015)

woodfarmer":l6k62a9t said:


> Sporky McGuffin":l6k62a9t said:
> 
> 
> > Aye - sorry, should have mentioned that. The rollback was pretty quick and painless on mine too.
> ...



 That takes me back. Remember the time when I was sent off to San Francisco (well, someone had to do it :wink: ) on a Systems Admin course for an imaging and workflow product. As a dedicated Mac-ophile, the world of C: was a closed book, so used was I to just dragging and dropping. The first day, the course tutor said 'slight slip up on our part but we need you to copy the following files to your C drive'. The look on her face when I asked her how to do it. :lol:


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## RobinBHM (27 Sep 2015)

I have 2 pcs at work which I bought with windows 8, which I hated from day one and wished I had chosen the windows 7 option instead. I can remember spending ages trying to find how to turn the computer off the first time!

Ive just installed windows 10 on them and then classic shell. It brings back the start button and with the 2 columns, so all programs, control panel and file explorer are can all be found easily again. So far all seems good.


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