# Milling Machine for Steam Engines



## Rhyolith

I have a medium term ambition (several years at least) to build a working steam engine, teaching myself various skills in the process (which will in turn be useful for my other projects!). I have a Myford ML4 lathe already which I am just beginning to learn to use competently. However I think I need a milling machine as well to be able to for fill my goal.

My primary purpose for the machine is to make this engine, however as this whole project is about long term gains I would be willing to pay more for something versatile enough to do much more. Talking of price, how much should I be saving for a decent machine? My thinking is around £600, but obviously less would be nice. 

I will probably go secondhand if possible, as I like old machines and they generally seems to be better value for money. Any good makes/models? Is there a particularly class of machine I should look for? Any good sources? eBay been fairly fruitless so far. 

Any further advice appreciated.


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## bugbear

I read 1930's model engineering magazines. Any number of steam locomotives were made using only a lathe. You don't _need_ a milling machine (although a vertical slide for your lathe would be helpful).

If you _want_ a milling machine, that's a whole different story!

BugBear


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## Farmer Giles

A Tom Senior light vertical is well regarded in the model engineering world, small enough for a home workshop but a proper industrial machine with a quill head. I was dead jammy and dropped on one for 300 quid a couple of years ago as it was not put on ebay properly. Tom Senior was spelled wrong, it was listed as imperial when it was metric, and it was listed as 3 phase when it was single. Usually they go for 800 plus.

If you have plenty of room you can get more milling machine for less money, something like an Elliot, you will then get power feed tables too. A Tom Senior M1 is also good, cheaper than a light vertical, but it has both horizontal and vertical ability and power feed. I also have an M1 but I like Tom Senior, good Yorkshire tools!


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## LancsRick

You don't mention what gauge engine you're thinking of! Are you talking 5"/7.5" or something larger?


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## DTR

A few thoughts from my point of view.....

As above, an idea of scale is needed. How much space have you got? (I assume it's going in that cavernous barn of yours?)

Like Bugbear says, up until the 1970s, at least, it was the norm for a model engineer to have just a lathe (and maybe a small pillar drill or hand shaper). Small (bench-top) milling machines were rare and mostly used by industry. For this reason it is a lot harder to find a small vintage mill than a lathe. So much so that the great Edgar Westbury designed his own bench-top mill that could be built at home from castings. When I was on the hunt for a small mill I nearly settled for a modern machine. It was only by luck that I found my BCA. 

On a larger scale, the Tom Senior suggested by Farmer Giles has a fine reputation. They are also rather sought after, and I think your budget of £600 may be a little limiting. Having said that, in my experience smaller machines are perversely more expensive than larger ones. I paid more for my tiny BCA than I could have got a big Harrison for. If only I had the room, and the transport, and a means of shifting the thing..........!


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## DTR

One more observation.... a lot of vintage milling machines are horizontals. Horizontal tooling seems harder to find these days, as vertical mills are today's preference. I like horizontals though; as an apprentice I mostly used an Adcock & Shipley horizontal. I preferred it over the verticals that we also used.


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## Rorschach

On lathes as well as milling machines there is a bell curve on pricing, the most desirable and hence most expensive machines are those that can be transported in a car and moved and assembled by a couple of reasonably strong men. The larger machines that require cranes and specialist transport go for a lot less than you might imagine. 

That being said, a lathe and a milling slide can accomplish an awful lot of work, so ask yourself if you really do need a milling machine. I for one would love one and could get good use out of it, however I have absolutely no room for one at the moment.


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## Rhyolith

To answer the the scale question:

I don’t intend to jump straight into trying to build a loco, I think that would be difficult considering I am still learning the basics of how to operate a metal lathe. So when I said “Steam Engine” I meant something something simple to teach me the basics, like one of those stuart kits (or something similar out of scrap bits). After that maybe a model steam launch (boat) as I already know how to build a wooden hull, it would be a nice merging of skills. A loco would be my long term objective after all that... if I get that far!

In the very long term I’d like to go up to full size stuff. So if its viable to get something huge, I would! 

As DTR suggested I have a lot of space, however the floor of my workshop is ply and I only have a caddy van for transport so machines weighing tons probably aren’t an option, but something quite large might be. Honstly it seems the way to go from what you all saying. I don’t have three phase. 

Possibly the biggest limitation is lifting. My workshop has only a fairly large normal door with a step for access, so anything that can’t be moved with manpower will be hard. Suppose a temporary ramp would help? 

——-

I watched that tublcain video about making a stuart kit. I struggle to see how it could do a lot of the operations he did without a mill... maybe skilled file work? There seems to be a necessity to get alot of faces flat and parellel, etc. At the least it seems like its easier with a mill.


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## Sparks73

I've a pallas model C...the earlier type...1920's

It's to run off a lineshaft...



I won't sell it...i just thought I'd let you know...


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## Sparks73

Rhyolith":y5vzmk6m said:


> To answer the the scale question:
> 
> I don’t intend to jump straight into trying to build a loco, I think that would be difficult considering I am still learning the basics of how to operate a metal lathe. So when I said “Steam Engine” I meant something something simple to teach me the basics, like one of those stuart kits (or something similar out of scrap bits). After that maybe a model steam launch (boat) as I already know how to build a wooden hull, it would be a nice merging of skills. A loco would be my long term objective after all that... if I get that far!
> 
> In the very long term I’d like to go up to full size stuff. So if its viable to get something huge, I would!
> 
> As DTR suggested I have a lot of space, however the floor of my workshop is ply and I only have a caddy van for transport so machines weighing tons probably aren’t an option, but something quite large might be. Honstly it seems the way to go from what you all saying. I don’t have three phase.
> 
> Possibly the biggest limitation is lifting. My workshop has only a fairly large normal door with a step for access, so anything that can’t be moved with manpower will be hard. Suppose a temporary ramp would help?
> 
> ——-
> 
> I watched that tublcain video about making a stuart kit. I struggle to see how it could do a lot of the operations he did without a mill... maybe skilled file work? There seems to be a necessity to get alot of faces flat and parellel, etc. At the least it seems like its easier with a mill.




You can use a lathe to both mill & linebore...

You can cut gears using the "free hobbing" process as well...


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## chaoticbob

Rhyolith":2mcs2jh5 said:


> Possibly the biggest limitation is lifting. My workshop has only a fairly large normal door with a step for access, so anything that can’t be moved with manpower will be hard. Suppose a temporary ramp would help?
> 
> ——-
> 
> I watched that tublcain video about making a stuart kit. I struggle to see how it could do a lot of the operations he did without a mill... maybe skilled file work? There seems to be a necessity to get alot of faces flat and parellel, etc. At the least it seems like its easier with a mill.



Although, as has been pointed out, many wonderful things have been done with a lathe and a vertical slide, I suspect that was more out of necessity than choice. Having a dedicated mill makes life so much easier! Go for it I'd say.

I wouldn't be _too_ worried about getting a heavy machine into your workshop. Where there's a will there's a way! Personally, depending on the slope, I'd be wary of using a ramp as floor-standing mills are very top-heavy. If you can beg, borrow, rent or buy an engine crane it might be possible to make a temporary stage level with the shop floor outside your workshop, use the crane to lift it onto the stage and roll in. There are other methods of lifting heavy things - if neolithic man can make Stonehenge without popping round to Machine Mart for a crane, surely you can get a mill over your step. The plywood floor might be more of a problem though!

Places to look for good used machinery include Pennyfarthing, Quillstar and Tony Griffith's site. The stuff on those sites at the mo is well over your budget, but tbh I think you'll have to strike very lucky to get a good 2nd hand floor-standing mill for £600.

REgards, Rob


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## Farmer Giles

There's an Elliott on ebay now. £600 on a buy it now. item no. 172954405897, complete with DRO

Looks like it is working but needs a bit of TLC, depends if you don't mind that kind of stuff, I love doing machines up


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## DTR

Harold Hall did a write-up on making a Stuart engine using just a lathe. It's well worth a read (as is just about everything else on his website):

http://www.homews.co.uk/page42.html

While I agree that a mill is definitely nice to have, for about three years I did all my milling on an ML4.....


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## chaoticbob

Farmer Giles":1x8nlq4j said:


> There's an Elliott on ebay now. £600 on a buy it now. item no. 172954405897, complete with DRO
> 
> Looks like it is working but needs a bit of TLC, depends if you don't mind that kind of stuff, I love doing machines up



Almost worth it for the Mitutoyo DRO's - but it looks like quite a project! Perhaps not what the OP's after if wanting to acquire basic machining techniques. It's said that at a Fleadh the All Ireland flute championship was won by a guy who, on discovering his instrument was broken, hollowed out a carrot and made music to charm the Angels from Heaven. I'm sure that's true. 
Serious point is that an experienced machinist can turn out precision work on a worn machine, but it's not a great starting place for a learner. I doubt the flautist started his career with a carrot!
Rob


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## Farmer Giles

It does look like it needs more than a little maintenance but if you keep looking the ones that are sound but need not much more than a light derust and grease do turn up.


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## chaoticbob

Farmer Giles":4pre1fzn said:


> It does look like it needs more than a little maintenance but if you keep looking the ones that are sound but need not much more than a light derust and grease do turn up.



Encouraging - I'm in the market for a bigger mill myself, so quite interested to see how this goes. I did get an as new Nilfisk M-class industrial extractor off eBay for £100 once because the guy had listed it under domestic vacs, so there are bargains out there to be had if you're lucky!

Cheers, Rob


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## -Matt-

DTR":2tkk7b2o said:


> as an apprentice I mostly used an Adcock & Shipley horizontal. I preferred it over the verticals that we also used.




Place I used to work used to have an A&S 2E with a vertical head, had all the gubbins to slide the top bit back across and use as a horizontal too, although we never did as it was only ever used for simple work. I once spent 3 days just making glazing bars on it, all replicating a Victorian cast iron conservatory we were restoring.


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## MusicMan

Arboga and Harrison are two other names to look for. I have an Arboga and it would do all the operations necessary in model making and then more.

You will get better value and performance out of a three phase machine but of course have to buy a converter. These are much cheaper if the motor says something like 240/415V on it rather than just 415V. (Which the Arboga is).


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## Keith 66

Best places to look, www.homeworkshop.org, also ,http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/ ,


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## TFrench

I recently picked up a centec 2A for not a lot of money. Its a horizontal but they did have a vertical head as an option, they sometimes come up on ebay.


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## Rhyolith

Is there any particular benefit to verticals? or is it just personal preference?


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## DTR

Rhyolith":636l38cw said:


> Is there any particular benefit to verticals? or is it just personal preference?



They are generally easier to set the work up on, especially for drilling / boring holes or milling enclosed slots. If you're comfortable using a typical pillar drill then you'll probably find a vertical mill is quite intuitive.

Horizontals can fit huge cutting tools, and take a huge bite to match. That's great in an industrial setting where time is money, but not as useful for the home engineer. That's why verticals are overwhelmingly more common in small machines.


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## Rhyolith

Found a couple on eBay that seem quite small:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-Mach ... 1438.l2649

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Centec-2-hor ... 1438.l2649

Either of these the sort of thing I should be looking for?


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## TFrench

The first one looks good - horizontal and vertical heads. The centec is the mk1 I think with the motor out to the side. Mine is on the original base that houses the motor as well. Its a much neater and more compact system. I saw a vertical head for one the other day on ebay, can't remember what it went for though.


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## Farmer Giles

A good looking centec 2b just went for £150 on the MIG welding forum. It is provisionally sold so worth keeping an eye on.


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## chaoticbob

Rhyolith":260dzavc said:


> Found a couple on eBay that seem quite small:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Milling-Mach ... 1438.l2649
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Centec-2-hor ... 1438.l2649
> 
> Either of these the sort of thing I should be looking for?



They both look nice, and (at the mo) well priced too. I'd agree that a vertical mill is more versatile - in theory you can do the same things, slower or faster, on either. It comes down to what you do most. It's difficult to know what machinery you need unless you have a a cut and dried plan for what you want to make though . My own journey in metal mangling started with a pretty vague idea that I wanted a lathe to - well make stuff! As I went on and became more ambitious I realised that I was grinding to a halt because I was putting off manually hacksawing a lump off a 3" steel bar - I'll do that tomorrow. And tomorrow. So I bought a metal cutting bandsaw which has now become an essential tool. I didn't see that coming!
Might it be best for you to start something you want to make on your lathe, then when you come up to a brick wall decide what machine you need make progress? It's frustrating at first because you have to wait, but over time you'll build a set of machines/accessories/tooling which meets your particular need.
Rob


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## Rhyolith

Found another one, this time really near me! Would be grateful for some thoughts again as to me this looks like exactly what I want.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Single-Phase ... Ciid%253A1

My principle concern is moving it. Apparently it weighs 1/5 a ton! How do I move something like that?


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## Rhyolith

I am going to view the one linke above tomorrow morning.


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## TFrench

That looks like an excellent piece of kit to me! An engine crane would easily lift that - I imagine you can hire one from somewhere, failing that they aren't earth shatteringly expensive. Kept vertical the weight is high up but it keeps the oil from running out of gearboxes etc. Make sure its well strapped down!


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## Rhyolith

Well I went and bought it, 907kg of milling machine for £750 :shock: 



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Its 1940s - 50s and apparently a high grade machine http://www.lathes.co.uk/milnesmiller/ (thanks DTR for finding that) 

Spent most of today getting into my workshop with the help of the local farmer and the seller, never moved something this heavy before! Think I have slightly shocked myself by purchasing something so ridiculously large and heavy. 

Its really quite dirty so I have started cleaning it up with paraffin... turns out its battleship grey under the dirt not black as I thought it was :lol: 

The Dirt:


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Will post pictures of the clean machine when I finish... think it will look quite the part! 

Something that crossed my mind already is lubcrication. It was and inbuilt oiling system for the bed (possible other bits too, but thats the bit thats been taking apart so far), a resource on top (not sure if this is for the oiling system. I assume it is), an oil feeder (like on the bigger Myfords) also on top and several large oil holes with screw caps. What sort of oil should I put in these? Is the engine oil I use for the Myford ok? Its also covered in grease nipples, will probably need to snatch the next grease gun I see at the car boot. What sort of grease should I use? 

I found the original suppliers badge hidden under the dirt, anyone know them? Have not looked the name up yet.



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

It runs nicely, though I have not fathomed how the gears work yet. 

A nice bonus feature is the powered bed, think it can go both ways horizontal and up under power. I didn't need this, but it might save some effort :mrgreen: 

My next thought is what do I need to get it functional. I came with several huge cutters (forgot to photograph those) all will massive morse tapers which screw in at the top of the machine, I am thinking some kind of collet attachment for smaller (and cheaper) bits might be a good idea? Also any good places to get bits from and any good ones for a beginner?


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## Farmer Giles

What a lovely machine! I love big old lumps like this - very jealous!

In terms of oil, most engine oils will be fine, especially the older variety 20w50 etc. The iso 32 hydraulic oil you can get from most farming shops is a good cheap alternative especially if it sups a bit.

Don't use some of the newer gear oils EP GL5 for example in old machines that are likely to contain brass/bronze components. They have a surfacing additive that works fine in all steel gearboxes but grabs brass etc, and can cause premature wear. It sticks to the surface, and is supposed to improve wear, but with soft metals it gets scuffed off and drags a bit of metal with it.

If you want to go vintage there are loads of oil suppliers, Withams, Millers, etc. If there are any old labels indicating what oil to use on the machine, you can usually find a very close modern equivalent, for example Shell Tellus 22 is easy, it is a ISO 22 gear oil and you can buy that. There is a place on the Wirral that will blend oil to any viscosity etc. I forget the name of the place now, there are probably others but they tend to want you to buy in quantity, 25l minimum.

But I would go for ISO 32 or 20w50 to begin with.

Cheers
Andy


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## Rhyolith

Thanks for that, I will check what the engine oil I already have is. It be good just to have one big vat for the Myford and the Milnes. 

What about grease? It has a lot of grease nipples all over the place.


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## Cheshirechappie

Nice machine, that.

Grease nipples - actually, they're probably not grease nipples, but oil nipples. Exactly the same principle, but use an oil gun with something like a medium viscosity straight lubricating oil (don't use engine oil, it has a high proportion of detergents and other additives that work very well in a high-temperature high-speed environment, but not so well in a low-temperature low-speed one).

You can get special way oils for machine tools, designed for use in high-pressure very low-speed places like the traverses of milling machines. Especially worth it on the vertical traverse (knee to column) because it'll stay put and not run off into the chip tray.

Keep your eyes peeled for a good milling vice. Won't be cheap, but don't be tempted by anything small and weedy. Half the secret of good results with a milling machine is a really rigid job-holding (and tool-holding) set-up.


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## heimlaga

Last winter I stumbled on a magnificent Värnamo horizontal and vertical combination mill for 500 euros. With digital measurements and all.
It weighed areong 3000 kilos and I had nowhere to put it and no money for repairs so I told an aquintance and he bought it. I rekon he ended paying at least 2000 more in parts and new spindles plus a vice and some tooling before he could make anything with it and I didn't have that amount of money either.

Instead I bought his old 14" metal shaper. He sold it for a very friendly price and held it for a year waiting until I had accumulated the little money he wanted. Just over scrap value. At 800 kilos or so it is light enough for my tractor to lift and it uses much cheaper tooling. 
I rekon it will do 80% of the milling jobs I need. It is slow of cause but that doesn't matter much when it is a hobby.
The remaining 20% I can afford to pay a professional for.


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## Rhyolith

Cheshirechappie":3m9nmij5 said:


> Grease nipples - actually, they're probably not grease nipples, but oil nipples. Exactly the same principle, but use an oil gun with something like a medium viscosity straight lubricating oil (don't use engine oil, it has a high proportion of detergents and other additives that work very well in a high-temperature high-speed environment, but not so well in a low-temperature low-speed one).
> 
> You can get special way oils for machine tools, designed for use in high-pressure very low-speed places like the traverses of milling machines. Especially worth it on the vertical traverse (knee to column) because it'll stay put and not run off into the chip tray.


There are two types of nipples I have found on the machine so far:

These domed ones (these are at the front just under table)


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

and these flat headed ones (this one is just under the table on the right hand side):


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Looking at the kind of connectors on my grease guns they seem like they would fit the domed variety of nipple quite well. Is this a coincidence or are they great nipples? There seem to be rather more of this sort of nipple than the flat kind. 

If they are all oil nipples, how do I inject oil into them? I only the following that are designed (i think) to inject oil rather than just dump it, and I think only the latter is deigned for oil (can i use a grease gun for oil?):


Grease Guns by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Enots High Pressure Oil Can by Rhyolith, on Flickr

I terms of oil I could do with a recommendation of where to source it from and specifically which oil to get... I am assuming such oil would be better for my Myford ML4 too? 



Cheshirechappie":3m9nmij5 said:


> Keep your eyes peeled for a good milling vice. Won't be cheap, but don't be tempted by anything small and weedy. Half the secret of good results with a milling machine is a really rigid job-holding (and tool-holding) set-up


Have had a quick look on eBay, your right the machine vices are expensive! Looks like £100 budget is required to get anything decent. The table on the Milnes is 30x8" (bit over 8", see pic), I am assuming the spacing of the slots is standard, it came with plenty of bolts for the slots. 



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

Is this the kind of thing I should be looking for: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pratt-Burnet ... 1438.l2649


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## DTR

On the Myford, NUTO 32 oil is recommended for every oiling point (regardless of whether its fitted with a grease nipple). If I remember tonight I'll take a photo of the stuff I use. In theory you should use way oil on the slides as it sticks rather than running off. However it is generally considered too sticky to use on small machines like a Myford. I don't know if your Milnes qualifies as a small machine!

As for vices, Harold Hall's write-up might be worth a read:

http://www.homews.co.uk/page288.html

More often than not, I follow his example and not use a vice at all (that's not to say you don't need one.....)


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## Cheshirechappie

Certainly true that there are many ways to hold work on a milling machine, and having (or accumulating) a good range of clamps, tee-bolts and spacers and packing is well-nigh essential, but a good vice does hold an awful lot. The one you linked too would be just the job; other high quality makes to look out for are Abwood and Jones & Shipman, but there are plenty of others. You can buy fancy versions that swivel and tilt, but a plain one does about 95% of jobs perfectly adequately, and they tend to be more rigid. Try to find one that still has its handle - saves messing about with adjustable spanners.

Of the grease/oil guns you illustrate, the sort without handles could be cleaned out and used with oil - look up 'Wanner Oil Guns' for top quality current versions (at top prices, too!). Fill with oil, place nozzle over cleaned oil nipple, and push. The oil pressure generated pushes down the little steel ball in the oil nipple, opening the way for oil to enter what it's supposed to lubricate. When you stop pushing, the spring in the oil nipple reseats the ball, sealing the nipple against ingress of dirt. (In theory - stripping some older machines can reveal quite a lot of dirt in oilways.) Also worth bearing in mind is that even good quality oilguns tend to leak, so it's worth finding a jam-jar or similar to stand it in.

As you clean up the machine, you may find a plate on it somewhere that gives the recommended grades of oil for the various gearboxes and slides; that's not uncommon. Failing that, the NUTO 32 that DTR mentioned - or equivalent - would be a pretty good all-round bet.


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## Farmer Giles

Nuto 32 is just Mobil's brand of a decent ISO 32 hydraulic oil.

£10 a litre from the bay if you want nuto 32, or if you look up smith and allan iso 32 slideway oil then you can get 5 litres for 15 quid. I doubt if there is any noticeable difference. Just ISO 32 hydraulic oil from your local farm suppliers will do it.

I feel oil may become a bit like sharpening 

BTW if you go on the Model Engineering forum, there are many members who use the older motor oils on their myfords, one has used GTX for 20+ years with no appreciable wear  I don't suggest you necessarily do this but you won't do much/any damage if you do on an old thumper and is better than nowt until you get the correct oil.

In my Colchester Triumph 2000, I use ISO 32 in the headstock and screw cutting gearbox. I haven't done this randomly, Colchester recommended Shell Tellus 27 which is the same as Shell Tellus 32, the former is pre-ISO ratings. Shell Tellus 32 is ISO 32 hydraulic oil, and generic ISO 32 oil it is not expensive, which is good because the big lathe takes gallons. As produced, the headstock oil is pumped, I have added a filter to the system, basically a car filter, I did this after seeing the debris in the oil when I changed it, having said that, the previous owner had broken gear speed selectors so it was to be expected.







In the apron I use ISO 68 slideway oil as it is the modern equivalent of Tonna 33 as recommended by Colchester. It has a push button oiling system, so squirts oil in several locations if you press a plunger on the apron. However a friend suggested I use suds in the apron, why I said? It will find its way in there and fill up the apron anyway he says, it happens to all Colchesters, he's not wrong  

So to cut a long story short, if your not brand conscious, then ISO 32 hydraulic oil will do most of what you want gearbox wise. ISO 68 is a bit gloopy and sticky but is good on slideways, especially vertical slideways. I would probably use ISO 32 on horizontal slideways but the 68 stays put if you have a damp atmosphere like I do. You can buy both from Smith and Allan and other similar suppliers.

EDIT - I forgot I have some really sticky ISO 220 for the vertical slides. ISO 68 is thickish but the 220 is like treacle, I go around with a take-away tray full of it around this time of year and lather up the vertical slide ways on the mills with a brush otherwise I get terrible condensation corrosion.

Cheers
Andy


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## bugbear

Rhyolith":1qb974q7 said:


> Its 1940s - 50s and apparently a high grade machine http://www.lathes.co.uk/milnesmiller/ (thanks DTR for finding that)


Having watched quite a few machine repair/renovation videos on youtube, a common theme is that the lubrication systems don't work, or don't work completely.

The systems are often some kind of pump, with logs of little tubes (made from ductile copper or brass) leading to places-that-need-oil.

These little tubes have a nasty habit of breaking, kinking, or getting pulled out from their attachments.

Have a good look around before running the machine, since running the machine without lubrication is an oft-mentioned caused of damage.

Turning by hand is recommended for testing - I've seen some hilarious results of testing pumped lube systems with the covers off.  

BugBear


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## Rhyolith

Having had a closer look I don't think it actually has a lubrication system. I thought these tubes in the table were that, but I think they just come from nipples, though which nipples is still a mystery!



Under the Bed by Rhyolith, on Flickr]

Probably need to start trying them. Would it be a good idea to squirt paraffin down them to clean them out? and work out what goes where... I have only used WD40 so far to keep the moisture out and allow for some testing until I get some appropriate oil. 

Also found a another problem to solve. I think one of the gear selectors is bent as it physically cannot go into any but one of the positions shown on the gear guide. See pictures.



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr


Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

I also found out that this thing has a powered down-feed for the headstock (obvious if you actually read the dials :roll: ), however I cannot get this to work. So tried to figure out how the power got to the down-feed wheel... which baffled me.



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

I realised last night that it was flipping obvious, its inside that silver telescopic thing.... Oh my god #-o ! It turns out that there is no drive getting that far, so I think it know now where those random rusty gears that came with it are from! The gearbox on top of the headstock.


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## Rhyolith

That was a while ago, have since finished most of the external cleaning an put the bed back together. 



Henry Milnes Milling Machine by Rhyolith, on Flickr

This brought up another problem. The bed feels stiff (equally along its whole run), so need to figure out why that is. In all likelyhood its the wheels on each end, the dialled one especially felt stiff when assembling it... so will give those a dismantle, clean and re-lube defiantly. The other thing is that I have not set that tensioner thing right (the thing the allows adjustment for wear), it moved during dismantling and i kinda guess where to set it (by sliding the bed back and forth till it felt right). Is there a method for setting these?

The last known issue at the moment is the suds tank, which is part of the casting so cannot be opened up. Its full of whats basically mud with metal shavings in it (though, no rust amazing). I have opened the plug draining it and shovelled as much of the dung out I can out as i can get at with a trowel through those two holes in the base (either side of pillar that supports the table). However I have no idea how to get at the rest, theres still a lot in there...


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## Farmer Giles

I used an airline to clear out the oil journals on my tom senior mill, they were full of old solidified grease as a previous owner had incorrectly assumed they were grease nipples not oilers. It was very satisfying, a bit like squeezing a huge blackhead  I didn't have those tubes though, mine were drilled into the casting. If they are delicate then I would be careful with the air, paraffin shouldn't hurt it.


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## DTR

I wonder if the little pipes are wick oilers, maybe? They use a wick (like a candle) to draw the oil by capillary action. If so the wicks might need replacing. 

I think the power downfeed works like the change gears on a lathe, where the appropriate gears have to be arranged manually rather than by lever. Hopefully there's some indication of where the gears have to go! Presumably there must be some kind of engagement clutch or half-nut though?

If the table is stiff, you could try backing off the gib strip(s) to rule that out. Without the screw installed you should be able to slide the table up and down by hand.


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## Rhyolith

I only have a manual compressor kismet-trolly-restoration-round-2-t106281.html The threads on the oilers look like 1/8" BSP so might be able to hook it up to them using a hosetail. 

How do I properly set up the "gib" strip? Is it just a case of guessing?

I have started taking the table apart again. One of the drive cranks its defiantly stiff so going to start with that. However it needs some special type of spanner I think.



Table Drive Nuts by Rhyolith, on Flickr


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## Rhyolith

Have found out that the nipples are 1/8 BSP threads, which is the same as the hosetails etc on my pumps. So I have been able to apply a fair bit of pressure using the Kismet trolley to flush out the oil pipes (it is satifying  ). Doing this I have been able to work out where they come from, the three copper pipes under the bed all come from one nipple on the front for example (cannot see any evidence of any wicks). 

I am waiting on some parts to patch up some leaks in my Kismet compressor and the will continue to clean them out.

One little mystery is the two nipples on the left side under the table, they both lead to the exact same place, air came out under the depth slider and the table slider for both. Is this just a subtle of saying these need twice as much oil?


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