# Forum attitudes lately



## devonwoody (6 Mar 2010)

I would like to bring to the attention of the moderators and others a situation that is arising imho on the forum lately. 

This morning I received a personal email saying that its writer was not posting or visiting the forum in the near future. This was intimated because other forum members are posting very abrupt replies and provocative responses to others postings.

I sympathised with his mail and asked that he remain and post in his normal way because without the membership remaining stable it would come perhaps to a situation where only the bolshie responding members were left if all followed his example.

The forum would then be a less friendly and informative place to visit.

Please treat this posting in a friendly manner and not give me too much stick.


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## xy mosian (6 Mar 2010)

I fully agree with what I think is your underlying point.

Personally I was brought up with " If you can't think of anything nice/good to say, say nowt ". This seems to work .. for me at least. 

xy


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## laird (6 Mar 2010)

No stick from me. I've also noticed a lot of uneccessary (IMVHO) snipes and snarls recently.


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## Ironballs (6 Mar 2010)

I agree DW and you may have seen I posted a suggestion in the improvements area. Some positive response and some degenerating into drivel.

I can only assume it's a bit of cabin fever after everyone has been cooped up during a long hard winter. There's a good episode of Northern Exposure from the 1st series where they all kept picking fights with each other at the end of the winter. They cured it by having a nude run down the street at the beginning of spring, not sure that would work here!


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## studders (6 Mar 2010)

I agree DW. I think some of the attitudes the Forum has adopted recently leave a lot to be desired.
Someone should take the Forum to one side and give it a Jolly Good Talking to.
It really is unacceptable.


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## newt (6 Mar 2010)

I agree some replies have been quite worrying, I can only assume that the recession and the cold winter is having its effect on folk.


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## TrimTheKing (6 Mar 2010)

There has been a real noticeable decline in the content and context of a lot of posts recently and it's a real shame. 

I joined this forum in 2007 and from the off was massively impressed with the overall friendliness of the place compared to other 'younger' forums I frequented. Just recently, I would say over the past 6 months, I have really noticed the kind of behaviours that made me leave other forums starting to creep in. 

I'm not some kind of super sensitive tree hugger, this is more about actually having an interest in what people are getting up to, how they do it and broadening my woodworking horizons and having a finite amount of free time. I don't therefore want to have to spend that time trawling through pages of sniping, sarcasm and 'my way is right, anything else and you're a d!ck' kind of bullsh!t. 

It's a real shame as we have seen a good number of extremely knowledgable posters disappear in the time since I joined, and from what I can tell most of these have been because of puerile comments escalating. It's a real shame. 

Just my 2p's worth.


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## matt (6 Mar 2010)

It's just human interaction as far I can tell, albeit forums are like driving where everyone is in their own little bubble being "right" and faultless. The cold weather and absence of much else going on leads to posts that are started to express an opinion and/or gripes rather than problems that need solving.

I can't say I'm overly worried about it though, even if some members are taking some time out - the latter is probably quite a healthy thing to do and really not the end of the world. This is just a forum.


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## Dibs-h (6 Mar 2010)

I think on the whole the forum went and does go quite well. Except we now seem to have trigger happy Mods, who just can't help themselves!


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## mr grimsdale (6 Mar 2010)

TBH threads like this one can put people off - all that low level wittering and griping. 
Talk about woodwork instead!

PS the thing that will most put (grown-up) people off on this forum is the arbitrary deletion and locking of threads. Like being back in junior school!


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## wizer (6 Mar 2010)

As I said in another thread recently, even I have decided to distance myself from the forum a little. These things come and go. As proved today, we have an underlying body of strong relationships which hold this forum together. I just hope this current spell doesn't cause more valuable members to leave. I'm not going to blame the moderators for what's happening, but I do think the man at the top needs to get involved. Only he can call order IMHO.


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## Walter Hall (6 Mar 2010)

I joined this forum when another forum was going through a similar patch with one or two individuals causing unnecessary unpleasantness. Those issues are now resolved and although I have in the main returned to frequent that other forum I still post here occasionally and am saddened to see this kind of behaviour here.


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## wizer (6 Mar 2010)

Brittleheart":1c0bdmmj said:


> I joined this forum when another forum was going through a similar patch with one or two individuals causing unnecessary unpleasantness. Those issues are now resolved and although I have in the main returned to frequent that other forum I still post here occasionally and am saddened to see this kind of behaviour here.



I've been here for five years and at a guess I'd say this has happened three times. The first 18-24months were fine, a really friendly place. It's what endeared me to it. But 'we' got into the habit of occasionally being curt with one and other and it just escalates until, I'm sure, some people are posting just for a certain response or using subtleties to cause heat.

I do believe it will die off, as long as the majority of us can realise it's happening and back off a bit til it blows over. If there's no fuel, there's no fire.


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## studders (6 Mar 2010)

I find the constant whingeing, with a fair smattering of hypocrisy, from a tiny minority, as off putting as the inferred problems.



> I can't say I'm overly worried about it though, even if some members are taking some time out - the latter is probably quite a healthy thing to do and really not the end of the world. This is just a forum.



Prezactly Right. It's just a Forum, albeit a good one, where views and counter views should be able to be freely expressed. Not one where a minority demands that things be done their way or not at all.


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2010)

studders":3q25lqv6 said:


> I find the constant whingeing, with a fair smattering of hypocrisy, from a tiny minority, as off putting as the inferred problems.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Spot on, but I think that if members are demanding for threads to be locked it is going to cause even more bad feeling. All it takes is one or two people who have taken a dislike to another member/s to wind things up on his/their thread/s and the thread is locked.
In the first place wouldn't it be better for the moderators to have a quite word with the trouble maker via pm, before drastic action is taken?

Cheers

Mike


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## monkeybiter (9 Mar 2010)

i'm a member of another forum on an unrelated subject which is populated in the majority by north Americans and moderated chiefly by an Englishman. There is a wealth of technical knowledge and experience but a severe dearth of good manners and general friendliness. Insults, racism and bigotry are quite common, even from the mod. It's lively and useful but not nice to visit.
I am a newbie to this forum but have been astounded by the welcome I was given, and the consistently friendly and good natured posts between all the regular contributors. Even though I'm short of time to make, I seem to find time to visit the forum every day.


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## big soft moose (9 Mar 2010)

and if you say anything contentious preface it with IMO (in my opinion) so you arent stating it as a fact - in my view the biggest reason for fallings out is people seeming to state that only their way/ view/opinion/ whatever is valid wheras in fact there are many different ways to approach nearly any task or argument.


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## cornucopia (10 Mar 2010)

I'm also backing off from this forum- i cant belive how much its changed since i joined


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## woodbloke (10 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":ngxpddyx said:


> and if you say anything contentious preface it with IMO (in my opinion) so you arent stating it as a fact - in my view the biggest reason for fallings out is people seeming to state that only their way/ view/opinion/ whatever is valid wheras in fact there are many different ways to approach nearly any task or argument.


As has been said many times, t'interweb is a strange place regarding just _how_ the meaning of dialogue in conveyed. As BSM correctly says there are plenty of ways to 'skin a cat' and not just the one definitive method, so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.
This was one of the irritating things about a certain cricketer who's just left the forum. The individual concerned was a goldmine of sound information but his forthright opinions on some handtools _occasionally_ (not always) made me 'hackle' Notwithstanding that though, the forum is poorer for his loss...IMHO :wink: - Rob


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## Karl (10 Mar 2010)

woodbloke":ac56ixph said:


> so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.



But surely the fact that the poster has typed it shows that it is just his/her opinion. :duno: 

If I say "The best way to sharpen plane blades is using an eclipse type jig, a trend double sided diamond stone and some honing compound rubbed onto a scrap of MDF", then that is clearly My Opinion. I don't see why we need to earmark it as such. 

Perhaps we should end all posts with "other methods are available" :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


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## woodbloke (10 Mar 2010)

Karl":2809ai7q said:


> woodbloke":2809ai7q said:
> 
> 
> > so the inclusion of 'IMO' should always be used to indicate that it's a personal viewpoint.
> ...


Karl...this is what makes it so difficult and why we need to be so careful. In context look at your statement again as a *third party* reading it.

_"The best way to sharpen plane blades is using an eclipse type jig, a trend double sided diamond stone and some honing compound rubbed onto a scrap of MDF"_

This now becomes a statement of fact, n'est pas?

I could equally write..."_Excalibur saws are rubbish because...etc etc"_ (hackles rising? :lol: )

It is my opinion sure, but it's been expressed as a statement of fact and therein lies a lot of the problem. (Ex saws are good btw :wink: ) I know that it's a chore to word responses using 'in my view' or 'IMO' but I think if it were used more, many of the nuances that we try to explain would be a lot clearer - Rob


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## Harbo (10 Mar 2010)

IMHO I take all posts as such - unless the poster is making it clear it is from another source.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinions but they should express it such that it does not offend other people reading them.

Many posts which are supposed to be witty or jokes do not always come across as such - the use of emoticons can help there?

My policy is to try to ignore the threads which are "going down hill" and certainly ones where certain people are involved - IMHO they seem to enjoy making trouble?  

And never ever loose your temper - you only come across the worse?

Rod


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## Philly (10 Mar 2010)

It's a toughy - all I can say is before you post take a deep breath and read what you've typed. If you have any doubts about posting it - don't. Come back to it later and see how you feel - the instant you take offence and retaliate we end up with some of the threads you have seen on the forum lately.
It all comes down to this - if you don't add fuel to the fire it will fizzle out. 

It's not always easy being the bigger man (or woman) but its the only way to keep the forum on the straight and narrow - additional rules will only confuse things and banning "idiots" doesn't help because they love winding good folk up.

Only my thoughts...
Philly


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## Karl (10 Mar 2010)

Rob - if I ended my "quote" with "and anybody using any other method is a to$$er", then i'd agree. 

Like you say, it is the remoteness of an internet forum which is the prime problem. 

Xcaliburs fine, BTW. How's the Kity? :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


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## woodbloke (10 Mar 2010)

Karl":1auta2xc said:


> Xcaliburs fine, BTW. How's the Kity? :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Karl


Sold...being collected Sat by MickCheese. Reading about your new 'toy' with interest...looks a beast :shock: - Rob


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## Karl (10 Mar 2010)

Scares the living daylights out of me every time I fire it up!


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## woodbloke (10 Mar 2010)

Karl":56u0e759 said:


> Scares the living daylights out of me every time I fire it up!



:lol: :lol: 

The scariest saw I ever used was when I did my elfn'saftey training course on wood machines (mandatory as a D&T teacher) using a 20" Wadkin rip...scared nine shades of rubbish out of me just to look at it! - Rob


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## kasandrich (10 Mar 2010)

I have not been around this forum for long, but I have been around others for a very long time and even ran one for a couple of years. What I have learned from my experience is, I think (IMO  ) we would all do well to realise, that we should "never attribute to malice anything which can be attributed to ignorance", thats something my Dad taught me and it serves me well in life in general.

What that means is that if someone has upset you, it is more likely to be accidental than on purpose, give them the benifit of doubt, this is good for harmony.

Also in my experience, if you have a real trouble maker, and that is often identifiable by turning to abuse/threats in PMs rather than on the open forum, then that person is best dealt with quickly and firmly by moderators, otherwise it just turns into bickering.

All of the above is just my opinion, of my experiences, does not constitute the opinion of anyone else and is not the only opinion available. :lol: :lol:


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## studders (10 Mar 2010)

kasandrich":2rfs50e6 said:


> What that means is that if someone has upset you, it is more likely to be accidental than on purpose, give them the benifit of doubt, this is good for harmony.



In the vast majority of cases, and esp on here, that is true. But.. there are, and have been the exceptions. 
Some people delight in subtly, or not so subtly, winding up others, even going as far as targeting them, deliberately choosing to misinterpret what they say and doing their best to provoke a reaction. 
Others have a beef with someone and snipe wherever possible, again to provoke a reaction.
In such situations it becomes almost impossible not to say something; at which point the provoker will act all aggrieved and claim to be the one whose been wronged, usually 'backed up' by a minority, with their own blunt axes, 'supporting' them. 
It's easy to say ignore them, not so easy to do.
And yes, I am well aware that for some, maybe many, I fall into their category of 'troublemaker' because I can't ignore the 'snipers' and 'point scorers'; and why should I? Forum Harmony? How about some of those people claiming to want harmony seeing some posters for what they are rather than blindly backing them up?

Here (maybe) endeth the rant.


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## big soft moose (10 Mar 2010)

Karl":wi7vb0lk said:


> Rob - if I ended my "quote" with "and anybody using any other method is a to$$er", then i'd agree.



thing is a few posters - and i'm not saying that you are one of them, manage to imply that via their attitude and unwillingness to consider any other view point


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## softtop (10 Mar 2010)

I've only been on the forum for a short while but I have to say I love all the information that is on here, and have spent hours and hours researching various things and completely changed my views on certain tools I do/don't need.

I'm shortly (a massive list of other jobs permitting!) about to start on my first project and have been really inspired by the beautiful workmanship I've seen here. I will post some WIP if I dare...

I have not been around long enough to understand the issues being raised here, but I think you are all a great bunch of people and encourage you all to continue posting and do your best to ignore anything you find upsetting for the greater good.

Best wishes to everyone!


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## Dibs-h (10 Mar 2010)

softtop":3dbia309 said:


> I've only been on the forum for a short while but I have to say I love all the information that is on here, and have spent hours and hours researching various things and completely changed my views on certain tools I do/don't need.
> 
> I'm shortly (a massive list of other jobs permitting!) about to start on my first project and have been really inspired by the beautiful workmanship I've seen here. I will post some WIP if I dare...
> 
> ...



Group hug, Group Hug!!!

Get away! Come near me any of yous, I'll stab you with me pencil (tucked behind my ear). :lol: :lol:


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## big soft moose (10 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":zft95uc0 said:


> softtop":zft95uc0 said:
> 
> 
> > I've only been on the forum for a short while but I have to say I love all the information that is on here, and have spent hours and hours researching various things and completely changed my views on certain tools I do/don't need.
> ...


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## nanscombe (10 Mar 2010)

IMHO (see I remembered. :lol: ) even the best families have their squabbles occasionally.

We're all only human and friction is a part of life. As long as we can rub along together, without holding too many grudges, we should be Ok.


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## BradNaylor (10 Mar 2010)

I think the main problem is that internet forums are still a relatively new phenominum, and appropriate etiquete is still evolving.

When I first joined this forum three or four years ago I approached it in the same way as I would if I was with my mates in the pub - joking, water taking, and winding people up.

It was inappropriate, I upset a few people, and I was banned.

I have learned that forums are different to saloon bars or construction sites, and require a code of conduct that is very nuanced; a post that will amuse some members will offend others - and it is very easy for one's jocular intentions to be completely lost when expressed in type.

One thing that puzzles me however, is the over-sensitivity of some people. How does a bloke make it to middle age without aquiring the skin of a rhino along the way? Surely if one reads a post which one finds offensive the correct courses of action are either to challenge it robustly or to ignore it.

To throw ones toys out of the pram and announce dramatically one's exit strikes me as bit pathetic.


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## Dibs-h (10 Mar 2010)

BradNaylor":35svofva said:


> One thing that puzzles me however, is the over-sensitivity of some people. How does a bloke make it to middle age without aquiring the skin of a rhino along the way?



Billynomates or stillsingle?

[Disclaimer: the above is a poor attempt at humour and represents an opinion and has no bearing on any person living or deceased.]


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## kasandrich (10 Mar 2010)

The other thing that amazes me on forums is the way people are offended on someone elses behalf :shock: 

I have had the situation where I have known someone very, very well, so well I knew I could take the p!55 a bit, and not cause offence, and someone else took offence at the way I posted and really layed into me, I had to explain that we were old friends and I was just having a laugh and no way would it have offended the person it was aimed at.


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## Ironballs (10 Mar 2010)

Where's the two fingers to the lot of you emoticon?



Only joking


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## big soft moose (10 Mar 2010)

Ironballs":1u47dtvm said:


> Where's the two fingers to the lot of you emoticon?


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## big soft moose (10 Mar 2010)

kasandrich":14u6485h said:


> The other thing that amazes me on forums is the way people are offended on someone elses behalf :shock:
> 
> I have had the situation where I have known someone very, very well, so well I knew I could take the p!55 a bit, and not cause offence, and someone else took offence at the way I posted and really layed into me, I had to explain that we were old friends and I was just having a laugh and no way would it have offended the person it was aimed at.



know what you mean - i remember on another music forum i used to go on i once told the joke about the redneck who wasnt a racist - the punch line being that "some of his best freinds were N........" There were loads of black guys on that site and none of them took offence as it is clear from the joke that it isnt validating the use of the N word to describe them, but poking fun at redneck attitudes

however we had one girl who was both white and middle class who decided to take offence on their behalf and the ammount of ensuing fuss made our irish joke thread here look like a storm in teacup - eventually she threw her teddies out of her cot and quit - and was not missed by many


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## mr grimsdale (10 Mar 2010)

Ironballs":w2okb4kk said:


> Where's the two fingers to the lot of you emoticon?



*✌ ✌ ✌*


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## RogerS (10 Mar 2010)

kasandrich":2sqwb0tv said:


> The other thing that amazes me on forums is the way people are offended on someone elses behalf :shock:
> 
> ......



Hear Hear. Well said. IMO they need to re-arrange the following into a well-known phrase or saying....A Life Get.

The problem is that they are the ones that are causing all the grief.


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## Digit (10 Mar 2010)

Yep!

Roy.


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## Tom K (10 Mar 2010)

Careful chaps you are in grave danger of being Antidummyspitterist.


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## Digit (10 Mar 2010)

Can that be managed with your own teeth?

Roy.


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## matt (10 Mar 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0DUsGSMwZY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSahEDRjvw&NR=1


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## studders (10 Mar 2010)

RogerS":31smsepv said:


> re-arrange the following into a well-known phrase or saying....A Life Get.
> 
> .



Alfie Teg ?
Tilfe Age?
Gelfe Tia?
Eagle Fit
Legate If
Age Filet
Gate File
Gate Lief
Gate Life
Fag Elite
Fiat Glee

Makes no sense at all Roger. :?


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## trousers (10 Mar 2010)

I think Brad has hit the nail on the head.
Those of us who spend our days "on site" can't get by with just having a sly dig and slinking off to hide in the ether. It usually gets sorted out there and then, one way or another. The water taking and banter are all part of the day. If you don't develop a thick skin you'll sink.
Trouble with a forum is it's (largely) anonymous. You can't punch somebody's lights out to sort out issues, but you can keep slyly digging away at a distance with words, and to me that's just a bit cowardly.
I hope it's not a symptom or a sign of things to come where people live their lives in the ether, and loose touch with the real world. Don't get out and interact with people/forget how to communicate properly.
The trouble with people throwing their toys out of the pram like our cricketer friend, is that several of those who supposedly were so out of order as to prompt his exit, now do not post either. Perhaps they feel that their opinions are not wanted, and as far as I read in that thread, they were just opinions, and everybody should be entitled to express them.
If the forum doesn't want so much controversy like that thread produced, then don't have an off topic section. Stick to woodwork and lock anything that isn't.
You'll maybe still get controversy over a woodworking topic, but if people have got such strong views over a woody topic that they may be tempted to leave (or even more pathetic they get banned), then perhaps all sense of reality will have dissapeared.

Just my 2p worth and IMHO, having spent a pleasant evening down the club interacting with people face to face.


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## Ironballs (11 Mar 2010)

Nice try Grim but it needs to be the other way round :wink: 

BSM - don't even get me started on yours, the single finger is for Americans only...and more vulgar too. I could (and have) flick the V's at our director in the office and get a chuckle back, give him the finger and I'll be in his c*** book before you can say "ill advised office joke"


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## studders (11 Mar 2010)

I think the demise of the Off Topic section is what some actively seek. They want The Woodwork, The Whole Woodwork and Nothing But The Woodwork.
In which case, why even look in here? 
NB I think that question has already been answered.

If the Off Topic were to be done away with you'd probably just get more arguments in the other forums so, for those not interested in off topic stuff, it would only serve to worsen the problem.
All IMVHO of course, though the 'I think' probably covered that. :?


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## Digit (11 Mar 2010)

I read nearly every post on the various sections concerning woodwork, as regards the off topic section I enjoy it very much, though I tend to drop out if things get heated.
Trousers commented about an evening down the club, lucky man mate, I don't have the option due to where I live. The off topic thread helps make up for that.

Roy.


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## studders (11 Mar 2010)

Digit":ukio71sh said:


> Trousers commented about an evening down the club, lucky man mate, I don't have the option due to where I live. The off topic thread helps make up for that.
> 
> Roy.


I do have the option, in so far as there is _something_ some people refer to as *The Pub*, quite close to me. Having been, cajoled by friends, a couple of times I found I couldn't hear a bloody thing, couldn't hear what people four foot away were saying, couldn't hear maself think so no, I much prefer to sit here, in comfort and warmth, whilst Whingeing and DummySpittin'.


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## mr grimsdale (11 Mar 2010)

RogerS":20bjj02i said:


> ..
> 
> Hear Hear. Well said. IMO they need to re-arrange the following into a well-known phrase or saying....A Life Get...


No but we like having a good moan, dribble and whinge. We can't be grown up all the time and it makes us feel better.
Nurse! Nurse! my nappy needs changing!


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## big soft moose (11 Mar 2010)

studders":1h52wnfy said:


> I think the demise of the Off Topic section is what some actively seek. They want The Woodwork, The Whole Woodwork and Nothing But The Woodwork.
> In which case, why even look in here?
> NB I think that question has already been answered.
> 
> ...



there are nearly as many arguments on the handtools board - perhaps we should campaign for that to be dropped   as well


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## devonwoody (11 Mar 2010)

Nice to see the forum is working smoothly, I had not received any email notifications re this thread for the past 24 hours until a few minutes ago, strange?

BTW, never seen a slanging match on the forum by a member with a moderator :wink: , so people do know what they are posting and would be threatened with..


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## studders (11 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":uy84q3s2 said:


> there are nearly as many arguments on the handtools board - perhaps we should campaign for that to be dropped   as well



Well, maybe just cap it? No talking about tools costing more than a Pound? :lol:


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## big soft moose (11 Mar 2010)

devonwoody":201ocgyv said:


> BTW, never seen a slanging match on the forum by a member with a moderator :wink: , so people do know what they are posting and would be threatened with..



apart of course for the "irish jokes" thread on which noel came in for a lot of flak for not closing it sooner,and then for closing it at all


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## Noel (11 Mar 2010)

Still quite traumatised about that...


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## Argee (11 Mar 2010)

I wasn't going to add any comment to this thread, which could be in danger of either rumbling on forever (and keeping bad feeling going), or getting shut down, but I thought that I'd jump in while it's still fairly benign.

It's *always *been the case that the written word lacks the intonation (and - therefore - the intent) of the spoken word and this is especially true on forums. Opinions are like noses - everybody's got one, but they're all different shapes and sizes.

It appears to me that, when someone posts in a thread, they're doing so completely voluntarily and devoid of any coercion, so the inclusion of the phrase _"in my opinion,"_ or its abbreviation, adds nothing. Equally, it shouldn't _excuse _anything either and dressing up an arrogant and unevidenced statement with_ "IMHO" _doesn't make the statement any less arrogant, or unevidenced.

Carrying on an argument within a thread, or disagreeing with a post, carries it own dangers and - therefore - its own responsibilities. Face-to-face, it's very easy to swiftly modify a statement, clarify an expression, make a compromise, etc., but when none of the inflection is available and no facial expressions are visible, the text can take on a different (and possibly unintended) meaning.

Challenged immediately for a "slip of the tongue," or an inaccuracy when in a face-to-face conversation, most will accept the adjustment, but once some people commit themselves to writing, they seem to lose the ability to retract even an obvious mistake, so the further they become entrenched, the worse it gets.

Longevity of membership, age and experience also have effects. Unless you broadcast it, no-one knows your age, occupation or experience, other than what they might have gleaned during their own forum membership. That said, the number of posts does not - in itself - mean anything, whereas there are those who might feel that this count adds, in some way, to their status.

My involvement over the last 5+ years has, I hope, been helpful in the most part. I like accuracy and fairness and appreciate it in others. I do *not *appreciate sweeping generalisations and insults (against myself or any other member), but it seems to me that this trend is definitely on the increase of late.

I *have *a life (even better now on two replacement hips), I'm still a regular reader and I'll no doubt contribute from time to time, but I don't expect anyone to care - one way or the other - if I do or I don't. My skin is extremely thick, but that doesn't mean I don't look for good manners and politeness as reasonable expectations. 

Ray


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## Noel (11 Mar 2010)

A lot of common sense there Ray.
I assume the op last week went well then?


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## Argee (11 Mar 2010)

Noel":22pfuoxr said:


> I assume the op last week went well?


Yes, brilliant, thanks! I was opened up at 16.30 on Wednesday 3rd., awoke at 19.00 and had no need for any pain killers overnight at all. They gave me two paracetamol and one anti-inflammatory at 08.00 and that's what I remained on three times per day until I left at 11.10 on Saturday - less than three days later.

I'm walking un-aided and I'm pain-free at last! 

Ray


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## Noel (11 Mar 2010)

Excellent news.


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## devonwoody (11 Mar 2010)

I will assume it was NHS. and its nice to hear these days compliments to the service, my wife has had two cataract ops. since December and she is also delighted.
In the old days everyone seemed to have nothing but complaints about their ops. and hospital visits.


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## wizer (11 Mar 2010)

so glad to hear that Ray. At least someone is benefiting from the NHS.


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## paulm (11 Mar 2010)

Argee":17uk28z4 said:


> Opinions are like noses - everybody's got one, but they're all different shapes and sizes.



:lol: I like that, says it all really.

Glad to hear your hips are all sorted Ray, had my problem one done in 2002 and haven't looked back since, pain free and can walk as far as I like with the dog, and do as much as I like in the garden, all subject to the general state of disrepair of the rest of my body of course  :lol: 

All best, Paul


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## Paul Chapman (11 Mar 2010)

That's great news, Ray.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Chris Knight (11 Mar 2010)

On that note, I reckon everyone should now go and do some woodwork!


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## matt (11 Mar 2010)

Argee":31s658lz said:


> Opinions are like noses - everybody's got one, but they're all different shapes and sizes.


Not dissimilar to egos - the other component of the rotton thread syndrome.


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## Karl (11 Mar 2010)

Chris Knight":2m6b45sx said:


> On that note, I reckon everyone should now go and do some woodwork!



Who's this Chris Knight guy???? Claiming to be a Moderator??????? And look at the size of his Avatar!!!!!!!!!


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## Digit (11 Mar 2010)

> And look at the size of his Avatar!!!!!!!!!



Don't be disgusting! This a family forum!

Roy.


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## Chris Knight (11 Mar 2010)

He was waterhead37 who wanted a change! I am working on the principle that I enjoy face to face contact with forum members more than some of the stuff we have been seeing lately with very strange folk posting stuff behind anon avatars.

I was at the excellent Kent Bash recently and so a few folk at least will recognise my ugly mug!


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## wizer (11 Mar 2010)

never heard of him? :duno:


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## Chris Knight (11 Mar 2010)

Your loss Tom!


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## Harbo (11 Mar 2010)

I recognise that face!  

Rod


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## matt (11 Mar 2010)

A mod breaking a rule - not a very good example to set...  

Personally I think an element of anonymity is quite good on the internet, especially when you consider how desirable some of the kit, surrounding security, and eBay ID's that can be derived - add to that a distinctive name and location, photographs of home, a period in hospital, on holiday, etc. It wouldn't take long for someone of the light-fingered variety to identify a healthy target...


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## wizer (11 Mar 2010)

Chris Knight":3dzflque said:


> Your loss Tom!



That's very true actually :-s :wink:


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## Dibs-h (11 Mar 2010)

matt":2l5mebge said:


> A mod breaking a rule - not a very good example to set...
> 
> Personally I think an element of anonymity is quite good on the internet, especially when you consider how desirable some of the kit, surrounding security, and eBay ID's that can be derived - add to that a distinctive name and location, photographs of home, a period in hospital, on holiday, etc. It wouldn't take long for someone of the light-fingered variety to identify a healthy target...



So so true! Especially considering just how well this forum is indexed by Google.


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## big soft moose (11 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":3l5jhudx said:


> matt":3l5jhudx said:
> 
> 
> > A mod breaking a rule - not a very good example to set...
> ...



not to mention the possibility for things to go really pearshaped from forum contact - a couple of years back an argument on a forum (not this one) led to me getting a storm of abusive emails, then the A'hole concerned worked out my work address and started sending me abusive hate mail , and eventually vieled death threats. ( For example I am apparently a " _fake, a charlatan, and a fraud who knows nothing about anything and need to watch your back because one dark knight (sic) you'll get whats coming to you_" - The fact that i can still quote them verbatim a couple of years later shows that they did have some effect on me

Fortunately however i'm a big lad and some of my mates make me look like mother theresa so i didnt get too concerned - I just figured out who they were in return and sent them a email to their real email address (as opposed to the junk ones they were using for the hate mail) saying " _I know who you are , and i can find out where you live - stop this **** now or face the consequences_ " and that unsuprisingly that was that

and for myself even after that i'm not too worried about the protection of anominimity , in the unlikely event of someone here getting all psycho weirdo on me , i'll just handle them - but for other people who are may be more easily intimidated i can appreciate why they might want to "hide" behind an anonymous user name and avatar


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## nanscombe (12 Mar 2010)

Dark knight! :shock: 

You were threatened by Batman? 

Maybe I should change my avatar in case someone recognises me?


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## mr grimsdale (12 Mar 2010)

Now you see it, now you don't. How many posts were deleted in the last hour or so?


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## TrimTheKing (12 Mar 2010)

mr grimsdale":7wdc0u21 said:


> Now you see it, now you don't. How many posts were deleted in the last hour or so?


In his thread or generally? I've not been on since Wednesday so what am I missing now?


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## mr grimsdale (12 Mar 2010)

TrimTheKing":3hpvxtr4 said:


> mr grimsdale":3hpvxtr4 said:
> 
> 
> > Now you see it, now you don't. How many posts were deleted in the last hour or so?
> ...


You haven't missed a lot to be honest! That's what makes it even stranger, that posts are scrubbed. Several thread BTW.
Watch this one!


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## TrimTheKing (12 Mar 2010)

mr grimsdale":1vfmptis said:


> TrimTheKing":1vfmptis said:
> 
> 
> > mr grimsdale":1vfmptis said:
> ...


Are they your posts that have gone?


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## laird (12 Mar 2010)

Mr.Jekyll probably hasn't told Mr.Hyde that he's deleted them. (IMVHO of course).


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## mr grimsdale (12 Mar 2010)

TrimTheKing":1io9nntw said:


> mr grimsdale":1io9nntw said:
> 
> 
> > TrimTheKing":1io9nntw said:
> ...


Not mine alone. Jason, studders and probably others. How would we know - once they have gone you can't necessarily remember who or what it was about, unless you keep a copy. Gives you a creepy feeling. "Was there a post or am I imagining things?"


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## TrimTheKing (12 Mar 2010)

Bit odd. Were any of them particularly contentious then?


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## Jake (12 Mar 2010)

As I understand it, some of them are Mr Grim saying that Rayburns are rubbish old fashioned inefficient lumps of iron. Perhaps more or less politely than that. But that seems entirely uncontentious, except that it is on a thread where someone is trying to offload one.


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## mr grimsdale (12 Mar 2010)

But if someone came on trying to sell the worst router* in the world wouldn't you expect a bit of comment along the lines of 'don't touch it with a barge pole'?
Personally I'd be grateful for being warned off from buying a load of rubbish.


*(I wouldn't know which one that is but I bet there is a leading candidate)


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## RogerS (12 Mar 2010)

mr grimsdale":q5qo61f5 said:


> But if someone came on trying to sell the worst router* in the world wouldn't you expect a bit of comment along the lines of 'don't touch it with a barge pole'?
> Personally I'd be grateful for being warned off from buying a load of rubbish.
> 
> 
> *(I wouldn't know which one that is but I bet there is a leading candidate)



I hear Netgear can be iffy.


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## big soft moose (12 Mar 2010)

mr grimsdale":24ssrkxh said:


> But if someone came on trying to sell the worst router* in the world wouldn't you expect a bit of comment along the lines of 'don't touch it with a barge pole'?
> Personally I'd be grateful for being warned off from buying a load of rubbish.
> 
> 
> *(I wouldn't know which one that is but I bet there is a leading candidate)



on the other hand if you were selling something you considered to be a good router and I trashed your thread by posting that it was a load of rubbish you probably wouldnt be best ammused


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## studders (12 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":3b1kv17r said:


> on the other hand if you were selling something you considered to be a good router and I trashed your thread by posting that it was a load of rubbish you probably wouldnt be best ammused



Probably not No. But if someone bought said item and it didn't meet their expectations, perhaps based on other input saying it's great, wouldn't they feel a tad peeved if someone piped up afterwards that they could of told you that it wasn't so good.
'Tis a fine line but something the seller must be prepared to accept, praise seldom gets criticism, criticism seldom praised.


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## Doctor (12 Mar 2010)

My goodness, I think you are self destructing when Grim tries to play the holier than thou card, and I believe he is right :shock: :shock:


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## Soulfly (12 Mar 2010)

I'd like to know why so many people have joined this forum and not made a single posting?


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## Tom K (12 Mar 2010)

Soulfly":2h50zk64 said:


> I'd like to know why so many people have joined this forum and not made a single posting?



They are the silent majority :lol:


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## mr grimsdale (12 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":3ic68hw2 said:


> mr grimsdale":3ic68hw2 said:
> 
> 
> > But if someone came on trying to sell the worst router* in the world wouldn't you expect a bit of comment along the lines of 'don't touch it with a barge pole'?
> ...


Yebbut we aren't going to judge anything by one recommendation. We'll listen to different voices and make up our own minds. The more the opinions the better we can judge. If someone feels strongly or angry abt something we want to hear what he/she says.


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## big soft moose (12 Mar 2010)

mr grimsdale":2ismfcl9 said:


> big soft moose":2ismfcl9 said:
> 
> 
> > mr grimsdale":2ismfcl9 said:
> ...



but perhaps not on a sales thread (IMO) - we've had this discussion several times before and i really cant be pineappled to have it again - do you really feel strongly or angryily abourt rayburns ? btw - I would have thought life was too short to get that het up about an oil burner


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## Karl (12 Mar 2010)

BSM - I really think that it's about time we had some forum rules about "For Sale" posts, which should include what posts can be made on a For Sale thread.

Cheers

Karl


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## dicktimber (13 Mar 2010)

Studders/BSM

Just picked up on this subject.
All I can say is a couple of weeks ago Roy and myself had a point of view on broken britain, and you both took an opposite view.
I thought the lines of discussion were factual and both parties put there points over...
I thought we were having a decent sort of debate?
I am also old enough to know, that you can't change other peoples views.
But under no circumstances were we becoming nasty to one another, it was a discussion which we decided to disagree upon in the end.

IMO, things posted in the OFF Topic section will become heated just by it's title, and as I have commented in the past some times the moderators could step in.


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## big soft moose (13 Mar 2010)

dicktimber":30088873 said:


> Studders/BSM
> 
> Just picked up on this subject.
> All I can say is a couple of weeks ago Roy and myself had a point of view on broken britain, and you both took an opposite view.
> ...



Actually i think that was me and jake (rather than studders) , but you are right we had a decent debate without falling out because we four at least are all grown ups who know the difference between a debate and an argument.


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## Dibs-h (14 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":34yljdfe said:


> ...we four at least are all grown ups .....




OOhhh!!! 







:lol: :lol:


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## big soft moose (14 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":3hc9ym0d said:


> big soft moose":3hc9ym0d said:
> 
> 
> > ...we four at least are all grown ups .....
> ...



it did say at least - as in there may be more besides ...


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