# Painted kitchen, BUT how?????



## Mark.R (6 Oct 2007)

I am in a slight dillema. We are going to be replacing the existing kitchen in the new year, and its been a long time ambition to make it myself. I have wanted the kitchen in Oak, with it stained dark to match the theme of dark wood throughout the house. 

Now my wife would prefer to have the kitchen in a light colour not only for a change, but to keep the kitchen light as well.

I have the experience, workshop and resources to make the project to quite an advanced standard as I have been making furniture and lots of other things in wood for over twenty years. However, the problem I have is that my finishing techniques have nearly always been in various spirit & water stains completed with a wax finish.

To have a coloured kitchen which does seem to be the trend at the moment, leaves me in total uncertainty regarding wether oak is suitable for painting/spraying. If not which wood do wooden kitchen manufacturers use, and what paint do they use and how do they apply it?

I guess it is by spraying, but I would greatly appreciate your advice on this as it would greatly expand the options we can draw upon to have the exact kitchen we want.

I must say, given the choice, I would prefer a painted kitchen rather than natural wood this time, and realise that brush painting is not an option for a good professional finish.

So answers please on a postcard!

Regards.

Mark.r


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## inventor (6 Oct 2007)

Personally, I would definitely not use oak for a painted finish. It's relatively expensive, relatively hard to machine cleanly, and, once painted, looks just like plywood.

I'd use either spruce ply with some sort of edge trimming, or laminated solid pine like http://www.lamisell.com/the-product.htm. It'll be hard enough work, don't make it any harder than you need!

I have a lovely expensive kitchen made in solid ash, beautifully finished (not by me). I have a lovely utility room made in solid plywood, specifically designed for a painted finish. Just put the furniture together in the simplest way that will look great and last.

As for how to finish it, I leave it to those that actually know something!


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## CNC Paul (6 Oct 2007)

Hi Mark,

Most top of the range kitchen companies such as Mark Wilkinson, Smallbone, Chalon and Woodstock all use tulip wood for painted kitchens...It is a hardish wood, clear grained and takes paint well.
The alternative is to make 5 piece doors in MR MDF again there are some top companies making doors that way.

The general finish is handpainted with a spray primer (cellulose) and then painted in eggshell, some of the above have gone over to waterbased products.

You can spray finish in coloured AC lacquer, but unless you have a lot of experience in spraying and the right facilities I would keep away from it...It also looks plasticky !

How about a painted kitchen with some feature pieces in Oak.



CNC Paul


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## jasonB (7 Oct 2007)

As Paul says tulipwood (american poplar) with MR MDF panels or all MDF construction for the doors, MFC either plain, coloured or woodgrain for the carcases.

I make a lot of wardrobes, kitchens etc this way and use a combination of brush and 4" foam roller to apply the paint, oil based eggshell usually.

A mix of finishes looks good a paul says, have a look at this painted & oak kitchen. The "sue" & "oast" kitchens here are commercially made doors with tulipwood/maple frames and maple panels with a sprayed finish.

Jason


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## Mark.R (7 Oct 2007)

Inventor, CNC Paul & Jason B, thanks for your replies.

Thanks for outlining a more suitable timber than oak. Although I have been woodworking for a while, my portfolio for the various timbers I have worked with is very limited.

Two of you mention " Tulipwood". Is this easily available and is it costly compared with American Oak??

Jason, you mention that you have made a number of kitchens etc in this type of timber and you seem to be well pleased with the painting side of such projects by using simple painting techniques. By a combination of brush and roller I assume gives a good professional finish?

So I take it that there is good bonding of such a paint to the timber with the paint/finsih that you use?

We would be looking for a cream to beige sort of colour to keep the kitchen bright, so please if you can give us a further update on the above questions, as without having to spray paint but giving a really good finish by brush/roller would be great news.

Many thanks

Mark


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## jasonB (7 Oct 2007)

I finish the MR MDF as follows, same for [tulipwood]

Coat of Dulux trade quick drying primer/undercoat applied to detail with brush and to flat areas with a 4" foam roller which is then laid off with a brush (laying off is basically taking a brush with little paint on it and just stroking it over the surface to get rid of the slight texture the roller leaves)

When dry flat down with 180g silicon carbide paper on a block, paying attention to all cut edges as the fibres are raised more by the paint.

Second coat of the QD primer/undercoat

Flat back with worn 180g

First coat of Dulux Trade oil based eggshell applied in the same way as the primer ( I prefer oil for the top coats as it is a little slower drying and will levelout better)

light rum with 320g silicon carbide on a soft block making sure not to rub through the arrises

Second coat of eggshell (eggshell is self undercoating, if using gloss it would be 1u/c 1gloss

Thats it, some of my clients are quite heavy handed in the kitchen and I've never had to touch up paintwork, went back to one I did about 8 years ago and it still looks good.

Tulipwood is not as expensive as oak, is easy to machine and work being a slightly lighter hardwood. There are very few knots though you can get the odd bark inclusion and colour can yary quite a bit fron light straw to a green/brown.

Jason


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## CNC Paul (7 Oct 2007)

Mark,

I would agree with the finish process Jason has given except for the primer. My preference is to use Dulux trade oil based primer thinned with 10% white spirit.... my reason is that it flows better than water based primer it soaks in well and does not raise the grain.

In a previous life I was production manager for a kitchen company producing 6-8 handpainted kitchens a week our preferred method of finish was 1 oil based primer then 2 coats of oil based eggshell, we only used Dulux ... keep away from Farrow and Ball in the kitchen.



CNC Paul


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## Mark.R (7 Oct 2007)

:wink: Jason & Paul,

Many thanks for your replies. This has really opened the door as far as kitchen design is concerned. You have made it possible for me to avoid going for a natural (stained) wood finish on the kitchen, simply because thats all I am familiar with.

I will purchase some of the paints you have mentioned and will experiment to try and get a good finish.

The wife will be pleased as well!!!!!!!

Anymore tips you can think of, please send them to me. Am always glad of advice.

Thanks

Mark.r


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## CNC Paul (7 Oct 2007)

Mark,

Are you planning on a face frame kitchen ar one with lay-on doors ?




CNC Paul


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## tim (7 Oct 2007)

Mark

How about beech instead of tulipwood. British Hardwoods do pre-planed beech at reasonable prices that are ideal for doors etc eg 70x19mm or 70 x 25mm. I use this now instead of tulip which i find to be too soft and also the amount of time and effort involved in prepping the timber is more expensive thajn buying it already done.

HTH

Cheers

Tim


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## Mark.R (8 Oct 2007)

CNC Paul;

My intention is to do face frames. I feel this gives the look of such a kitchen more profile and style. This is what I really enjoy about making my own furniture, although I am not and have never been in the trade. It allows me to contain in my designs those aspects of other designs that I like, into one. (and at a fraction of the price!)


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## Mark.R (8 Oct 2007)

Tim;

Thanks for the advice re beech. I take it beech takes paint/finsih very well??


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## tim (8 Oct 2007)

Yes - it does. Its close grained and while its harder to sand than tulip, its also much more robust so doesn't get dinged so readily.

Cheers

Tim


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## markymark12 (8 Oct 2007)

Hi

I thought some people may like to share in a tip that was given to me by a painter in a boat yard i was working in.

Owatrol paint conditioner, it was used by all the yards painters to achieve a mirror like finish to the yachts hull. Not as a glossing agent as such, but by allowing the paint to stay open for longer reducing any pulling and allowing it to flow out better. It can be added to any oil based paint and improves its qualities unlike adding thinners.

Since starting to use it a few years ago i will not use paint without it in. Any brushmarks just disappear.

Hope it helps Mark


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## tim (8 Oct 2007)

Mark

Have you any more details please?

Cheers

Tim


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## markymark12 (8 Oct 2007)

Hello Tim

Owatrol is a penetrating oil, which can be used on its own for all sorts of things including treating rust, 

When added to paint it promotes adhesion and gives increased wet edge time without affecting drying time.

I spent a couple of years at camper and nicholsons boatyard, where the painters sworn by it, the yachts where in the 1million plus bracket.

I have used it for a few years now and have never had any problems associated with its use.

The company are a norwegian firm, they specialize in paints and other items for the boat trade.

Google will soon find you a british online supplier, it is expensive but once you have used it you will be hooked.

Glad to help Mark


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## George_N (9 Oct 2007)

As a DIYer, rather than a pro I have made my kitchen cabinet doors from MDF. Frame and panel doors...18 mm thick frames 90 mm wide with a 6 mm panel. I used loose tenon construction for the doors (dead easy with a router table) and a simple round over profile around the edges. I sealed the cut edges with PVA diluted 5 parts PVS to 1 part water. I sanded the edges to 320 g and painted with water based paint system (MDF primer, undercoat and topcoat) all topped off with satin finish Ronseal Diamond Hard floor varnish (also water-based). I applied all the finishes with my B&Q HVLP sprayer and got a pretty good result...it pleases the boss anyway; she also wanted a painted finish to lighten the look of the kitchen and it certainly does that. I like MDF in this situation because it is cheap, stable and once painted it looks great and is (so far) durable.


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## Mark.R (9 Oct 2007)

Marky mark & George.n;

Thanks for your tips. This will be a large kitchen project when I get round to it ( probably next year) so am grateful for all the advice I can get.

Mark.r
:wink:


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## the_g_ster (11 Oct 2007)

Mark R, there are some good responses on here clearly. Which I am sure has helped many of us.

I am looking at a kitchen project soon too, I will be building from scratch and really looking forward to it.

Somebody mentioned Farrow and Ball are best to stay away from? Why's that? I have some exterior doors painted in this that have taken a bit of a pounding but still look good (eggshell). What's the difference between their paint and Dulux for interiors?

We all look forward to posts of you making this.


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## CNC Paul (11 Oct 2007)

The problem with F & B paint is that it is quit a chalky finish as such grease, steam and general cleaning liquids found in the kitchen mark it .



CNC Paul


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## BradNaylor (17 Oct 2007)

Having just completed a painted kitchen (photos in projects forum) I would advise the use of MR MDF thoughout. Poplar or tulipwood is very soft - as soft as pine - and in my experience dents easily in use. MR MDF on the other hand is very hard and takes a painted finish beautifully.

MR MDF is the green stuff available through specialist stockists, not to be confused with ordinary MDF from B&Q!


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## Mark.R (18 Oct 2007)

Dan Tovey;

Thanks for your update and advice to use the MDF option. I have thought about using it many times for ease of taking the paint, but was put off after realising the material is totally artificial and really is a hardened cardboard! Well on a bad day, thats my opinion on what MDF actually is, though I do use it here and there and respect its uses.

Its for this reason that when I am trying to achieve a quality kitchen, I find it difficult to get my head around that its not a quality timber. 

I guess this is nothing but short sightedness on my part as no doubt most quality kitchen manufacturers use this material for painted kitchens, and are able to get a quality product at the end of it.

Perhaps I will make the actual door/drawer frames from timber, but use mdf for the infill?

Mark.r


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## Steve Maskery (22 Oct 2007)

Dan Tovey":2j041rfk said:


> MR MDF is the green stuff available through specialist stockists, not to be confused with ordinary MDF from B&Q!



I was in my local timberyard the other day and they had a big sign up saying "It's not green but it's still MR" so it looks as if at least one manufacturer is trying to be green, as it were, by reducing its use of dyes.
S


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## seaco (23 Oct 2007)

I think the best thing to use if your going to paint the units is moisture resistant MDF, I used it for mine then spray painted it all come out really well and has lasted now from memory about 3 years without any problems at all...


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## Mark.R (24 Oct 2007)

Seaco;

Thanks for the photo of your kitchen. Looks great. I have been extremely grateful for the replies other woodworkers have made to me regarding their painting advice. Would you be able to do likewise and outline what kind of paint/finish you used on the kitchen in your photo?

Thanks

Mark.r
:wink:


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## BradNaylor (28 Oct 2007)

This is a kitchen I was involved in making and installing earlier this year before I went on my own.

Again, is was made entirely from MR MDF. This was then sprayed with AC lacquer but I had the facilities to hand then.

The other benefit of MDF for the door frames is that there is no shrinkage across the grain of the stiles. With solid wood you can often get slight cracks appearing at the joints where the wood has shrunk by an microscopic amount. Not a problem on a natural wood finish but it looks awful on a painted one.

In my view it is _better _for this job than solid wood!

Dan.


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