# Alternative to Waterlox



## billw (9 Nov 2009)

Hi

I'm getting close to having to think about applying a finish to a piece which is predominantly walnut, but has some panels of sycamore and chestnut in them.

The piece I am "borrowing the design from" used Waterlox finish. I don't believe it's available in the UK and am looking at suitable alternatives. 

Given I don't want the sycamore to darken too much, what would be a good alternative?

Here are a couple of pics......


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## MikeG. (9 Nov 2009)

I don't know Waterlox, but the two products I would suggest which will keep the sycamore reasonably light are Rustins Plastic Coating (a 2 part lacquer) or Osmo Poly x, a wax-oil.

Mike


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## yetloh (9 Nov 2009)

This is a real dilemma. A water based finish will give you the best answer for colour but I have yet to find one that does not take some of the "life" of the wood away. I wouldn't use Osmo poleax for the same reason. It will add some colour and its lack of clarity does affect lustre. 

If you want to maintain the lustre and minimise colour change give it a coat of ambry solar clear protect 30 sunscreen before applying a clear melamine lacquer - I use morelles. Don't use the sunscreen under a water based finish as I have found it seems to affect adhesion. This doesn't seem to be a problem with lacquer. 

Lacquer is best sprayed (outdoors) but can be brushed on if you work fast. I use a Polar artists brush (they come in various widths) which has fine white nylon bristles. Lacquer is a high build finish which dries very quickly. You don't need to worry too much about flatness of finish because it can be quickly and easily cut back with a cabinet scraper. 

Jim


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## matt (9 Nov 2009)

PM me your address and I'll send you a small sample of Walnut with thison it if you're interested.

I'm really pleased with it on Walnut.

EDIT - I don't have sycamore but I could half finish another light wood so you can see the colour change.


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## Ironballs (9 Nov 2009)

Bill - the polyvine that Matt has suggested is the one I used on my table and I think you've seen a sample of it. It is pretty good but you'll need to cut back the second coat with 0000 and wax it.

I'll bring a near empty can of Behlen satin lacquer to class and you can have a play, this is what I finished my TV stand with


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## matt (9 Nov 2009)

Ironballs":ifvdspb1 said:


> ...but you'll need to cut back the second coat with 0000 and wax it.



Why? I cut back the first coat before applying a second.


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## Ironballs (9 Nov 2009)

The final finish whilst reasonably smooth was still slightly rough, therefore it needed a very gentle cut back to give it the smoothness and extra sheen.

Does a good job though, one year on and my maple is still nice and pale


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## matt (10 Nov 2009)

Ironballs":2cdb58vd said:


> The final finish whilst reasonably smooth was still slightly rough, therefore it needed a very gentle cut back to give it the smoothness and extra sheen.
> 
> Does a good job though, one year on and my maple is still nice and pale



Oh, I see. Yes, my first coat was rough.


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## Mikey R (12 Nov 2009)

Ironballs":c7xn7aqq said:


> The final finish whilst reasonably smooth was still slightly rough, therefore it needed a very gentle cut back to give it the smoothness and extra sheen.
> 
> Does a good job though, one year on and my maple is still nice and pale



Hi IB, Would you say the finish is slick enough for something like a guitar neck? I saw the Polyvine on the Axminster site and thought it might be worth a try.


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## Ironballs (12 Nov 2009)

I'd say probably not as it's a brushed finish and water based - so raises the grain a little. To get a neck smooth finish you have to cut back a little with 0000 and wax. And you don't want wax on a guitar neck.

I took some of the Behlen spray lacquer in for Bill and we sprayed up a piece of walnut, seemed quite happy with the finish. Perhaps less happy with the amount of lacquer he'll need :shock:


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## Sgian Dubh (12 Nov 2009)

Ironballs":27v5adpt said:


> I took some of the Behlen spray lacquer in for Bill and we sprayed up a piece of walnut, seemed quite happy with the finish. Perhaps less happy with the amount of lacquer he'll need



I don't understand why you two guys are diddling around with cans of spray lacquer for that relatively large item. If it's a lacquer finish Bill wants why doesn't he just get the thing into the spray booth in the college there and spray it? I'll even let him use some of the lacquer I buy for my course at no charge. Slainte.


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## Ironballs (13 Nov 2009)

I did suggest that to him and he was going to speak to one of the tutors about getting some spray tuition.

What would you recommend, spray before or after assembly?


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## Sgian Dubh (13 Nov 2009)

Ironballs":2uaql6ar said:


> What would you recommend, spray before or after assembly?



I'm not sure what stage it's at regards assembly, but normally I'd spray polish the panels with one or possibly two coats prior to assembly. Then I'd polish the inside edges of the framework. After that the piece would be glued up. Next you mask off the panels and do the first one or two coats of the framework. Finally you remove the masking and spray the lot to finish off.

The only additional warning I offer is that American black walnut tends to look cold and uninviting with just clear lacquer sprayed over it. I personally prefer to do something to it to warm it up before lacquering: options include, for example, a coat of boiled linseed oil; secondly a concoction of dye majoring on a brown base with touches of red and yellow to adjust colour and tone; third you can apply a coat of shellac, eg, clear, amber or button and then lacquer over that.

If I've not had overly stressful day, and therefore less likely to be a bit snappy, and I'm working late one night, you might find it useful to catch me for some suggestions on potential solutions. Slainte.


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## Ironballs (14 Nov 2009)

Thanks Richard, I'll make sure Bill has a read through your advice. Think we're both doing a stint on the stand at Harrogate next week so we might be able to have a chat there

Cheers

Damian


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## billw (24 Nov 2009)

Richard - thanks for the chat the other night, I'll probably get the piece ready for a full dry fit sometime after Xmas and can then start making sure I do the finishing in the right order! Luckily I had procrastinated for at least 4 weeks about gluing the doors up.


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