# fitting your own double glazing



## StevieB (2 Apr 2008)

Anyone out there fitted their own double glazing - UPVC frames and glass? Supplier wants just over a grand more for supply and fit over supply only on 7 windows, two of which are tiny. All can be reached easily from the outside, 4 on the ground floor. I am therefore very tempted to have a go myself. Any pitfalls or scare stories to be aware of from other members personal experience gratefully received! Fitting myself does not invalidate the FENSA registration against manufacturing defects, although obviously problems due to installation will be up to me to sort out.

Saving the grand allows us to go for vertical sliders (UPVC sash effectively) rather than casements, which SWMBO really wants. Since the walls are 18inch solid brick the inside of the window will need to be lined out in timber anyway which shouldnt be a problem, and I cannot see the point in getting a company to do that for me!

Steve.


----------



## momo (2 Apr 2008)

If I had the money I would pay them. IF you damage the building your going to end up paying, then theres damage to the frames caused buy you if you mess them up. A grand looks a lot but not when it covers all that and gives you peace of mind and a lazy day.


----------



## TEP (2 Apr 2008)

Mornin' *Steve*. A few years ago I fitted all my windows and doors, apart from the 2 front bays, and the porch door. The bays where just too heavy for me to handle, and the porch had double doors, and a half circle top, decided discretion was the better part of valour on this one. :lol: 

My house is solid brick walls circa 1932, did all the work myself and had no problems other than wearing out masonry drills as the house is built of Ruabon Red brick. It is hard.

It would be so much easier with another pair of hands, so if you have anyone who can help it would be a great bonus. The only other thing I would suggest is measure, measure, and measure again. Or get the supplier to measure up for you.

Wait till the weather gets a bit better, and good luck!


----------



## Russell (2 Apr 2008)

Have done a couple of windows myself no great problem my only advice would be to invest in a couple of suction glass lifters to make putting the sealed units in easier and a white rubber mallet to avoid marking the frames if they are white.


----------



## woodbloke (2 Apr 2008)

I did this 20 odd years ago in my bungalow (it helps if there is only on level to the building :wink: ) without any undue problems and I even fitted a very large bay window. IIrc DIYing the DG saved about half the cost of having it done by an installer - Rob


----------



## StevieB (2 Apr 2008)

Many thanks for the responses, looks like I am going to be fitting my own!

Momo - not sure how I am going to damage an 18" brick wall with a UPVC frame, but as you correctly surmise cost is the issue, if I had an unlimited budget I would get someone in, sadly the budget is limited and the need is pressing - everytime it rains in fact :roll: 

TEP - good advice, I have already enquired if they offer a survey and supply service - they do indeed. £10 per window to come and measure, well worth it I think. Not because I cannot use a tape, but because if I get it wrong its going to cost alot more than the £70 surveyor fee to replace the incorrectly measured window. I look at it as an insurance policy against me having a senior moment :lol: 

Russel, thanks, hadn't considered suction cups but will certainly look into it now, good idea.

Many thanks all,

Steve.


----------



## Shadowfax (2 Apr 2008)

Steve
You won't have FENSA registration of the installation if the company does not do the installing. You will just have a warranty on the glass and frames.
You should contact Building Control and do this on a building notice.
The FENSA registered company cannot give a certificate to BC if they have not done the installation so you might have a problem when you want to sell the house.
Best factor in the building notice fee before you take the plunge and do it yourself.
Cheers.

SF


----------



## kafkaian (2 Apr 2008)

Ten years agon I used to do much work myself - including windows. I found the job very easy and rewarding and asked some mates to help our lifting heavy ones. Then Building Regulations changed and is getting tighter by the year. People are fitting windows by me without realising, but no-one is shopping them to the Council and unless they contact you within 12 months of finishing the job can't do anything anyway.

The bottom line seems to be; pay the professionals or apply to building control. Whatever your choice, pay an arm and a leg because even the latter is going up in price thanks to the small time developers and the demand on trained/quailified council officers now forcing contractors in on the game.

For those on a tight budget you have to save very hard to get your house done up these days.

I'm all for building control because it makes our lives safer, but the costs are rocketing and the delays can be really awkward.


----------



## Shadowfax (2 Apr 2008)

Not sure where that 12 month thing comes from.

The fact is if you fit windows without going through FENSA or applying for Building Regulation approval yourself it is unauthorised work and if Building Control are made aware of it, after the event, the only course will be to apply for a regularisation certificate. 
This is likely to cost about one and a half times as much as the building notice would have cost in the first place.
The building notice route for windows is not likely to be hugely expensive anyway. It is all to do with insulation values etc.
Have a look at the charges on the local Building Control pages on your Council's web site. That way you can find out the actual cost without giving the game away.

SF


----------



## Philly (2 Apr 2008)

Stevie
Well worth asking your local fitters to do it in their "spare time" - most charge about £50 a window. Often it will be the same guy who comes to fit your windows anyway - but you'll be paying his Boss for the privilege.
Hope this helps
Philly


----------



## Rich (2 Apr 2008)

Hi Stevie, It might be worth getting the glazing company to install the frames only, then you fit the windows yourself (which is a cinch) as they can all be fitted from the inside and I would think your guarantee would then be intact, this would probably save you half the original cost.
regards,
Rich.


----------



## StevieB (2 Apr 2008)

Hmm, not as simple as I thought then. I had already spoken to the council since they want the front only to be timber sashs due to being in a conservation area. They said I can do what I like with the rest (side and back of house) and neither they nor the window company have said anything about buildings control at any point! I am going to speak to the window supplier on Saturday so will speak to them and then the council about bc regulations. Will also check about the FENSA registration since I have been told verbally by one of the companies I am getting quotes from that this was not an issue.

Just out of interest, why do bc need to be told if I am fitting them, but if the comapny is fitting them they are not interested? Its 6 holes drilled in a brick wall, 6 frame fixings, can of expanding foam and upvc trim to cover it all over. I personally cannot see it matters who drills the holes! Then again council regs have never made sense... :roll: 

Steve.


----------



## Shadowfax (2 Apr 2008)

The government decided that we would sign up to European rules that would control the amount of insulation and heat loss from buildings. This applies to new builds and to alterations to existing buildings and all the requirements are written into the Building Regulations.
All new glazing is supposed to be installed using K glass etc. to keep heat in.
Because it is such a faff for BCs to do this kind of inspection the glazing companies reckoned they could do it and oversee the work themselves. FENSA is the organisation that was set up to oversee all window installations on domestic premises but, in effect, the member glazing companies provide certificates to state that the installations conform to Building Regulations and they send copies of some sort to the relevant BC so that there is a record in Building Control for when the inevitable questions come in (in the form of searches from solicitors) when the premises come up for sale.
It is equally possible to apply to BC for Building Regulation approval as an individual, usually on a building notice or perhaps on a full plans application but the result will be the same. FENSA might be cheaper or easier but the result is the same - authorised work and no hassle in the future.

SF


----------



## momo (2 Apr 2008)

Not that that scheme seems to carry much weight, I lived in bramley hants for a while and met my wife there, the local housing association had all the old windows changed to DG, however her neighbours kid used to climb onto the window ledge and hang out the top window so to speak, one day the window moved, my wife saw it and told the kids mom, next day the housing association structural engineer took a look, he pulled it rather hard and it gave way, the window that was professionaly fitted had only been held in place with ............ Mastic and one screw.


----------



## kafkaian (2 Apr 2008)

Shadowfax":1e60rt0k said:


> Not sure where that 12 month thing comes from.


 It comes from the government's directgov website thus:



[url=http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/Planning/BuildingRegulations/DG_4001372:1e60rt0k said:


> Direct.gov.uk[/url]":1e60rt0k]You can't be served with a section 36 enforcement notice more than 12 months after the date of completion


 although it does go on to say that an injunction can be served, and from what I understand, this is only used in extreme cases where people are in direct danger.

After the 12 month period, the lack of certification becomes Caveat Emptor (or "Buyer beware") when trying to sell your house for work which was completed after a certain year (1985 I think it starts but I'd need to check). A former neighbour did exactly that and had trouble selling his home because of issues over windows, an extra bathroom and the reclamation of outbuilding into normal dwelling space, as well as changing the structure of a chimney stack - all done without building regs approval, but which were not then enforcible by law because of the period of expiry.

What is certainly enforcible is retrospective approval for building regulations within 12 months of doing the work. So really depends on how vigilant near neighbours are reporting matters to the local authority.

I understand a bill is underway in parliament to extend the period of capture to 24 months.


----------



## StevieB (3 Apr 2008)

I see, thanks for the information SF - it makes for interesting reading and is something I will need to check into further. What does seem strange is that 3 years ago I build an entire conservatory on my old house with more glass in it than all the windows in the house itself and nobody batted an eyelid about this. I guess as an 'external structure' it falls outside the insulation regulations you mention? Had no problems or queries when selling either.

DG supplier I am proposing to buy from is also reputable with a long presence in the local area and say they do extensive supply only to homeowners so will also be checking with them what they feel the rules and regs are how the deal with the issue.

Steve.


----------



## Shadowfax (3 Apr 2008)

Steve
Have a look at this page. 
It might answer all your questions and then some.
Best wishes.

SF
http://www.eastbourne.gov.uk/environment/building-control/approval


----------



## StevieB (3 Apr 2008)

OK, I have been in touch with the council, and all I need to do is submit a buildings notice application. This will cost £96 and is a government set charge. So long as this is submitted 48 hours before I start taking out the old windows they will then come and inspect at their discretion either before and after, or after installation and issue a certificate to say everything is fine. This is in place of the FENSA certificate issued by the DG company, and either is acceptale to solicitors in the event of house sale in the future. If I didn't do this in advance and needed a retrospective notice, the charge goes up to £96 plus 20% - not sure if this is a fee set by my council or again a country wide fee. Either way its not extortionate, and still much cheaper than getting the company to fit them for me.

Many thanks for all your help, 

Steve.


----------



## kafkaian (3 Apr 2008)

StevieB":2q8j5yaj said:


> Many thanks for all your help


No problem It can be a minefield out there


----------



## Rich (3 Apr 2008)

I DO like happy endings, well researched steve,
regards,
Rich.


----------



## Shadowfax (3 Apr 2008)

Sounds like a reasonable result.
Let's hope it stays dry when you start the work!
Cheers.

SF


----------

