# Windsor Chair Purchase – unhappy - advice sought.



## Woodwould (22 Oct 2008)

I've been in the antiques trade for over thirty years and owned an antiques and restoration business in Somerset prior to moving to Australia in 1992.

I have had the great pleasure of handling and selling some very fine British antique Windsor chairs over the years. My hobby is making furniture and I have made many Windsor chairs following various provincial styles, but I never actually kept one for myself. My timing is appalling, I know, but after I retired, an irresistible urge developed to make myself a stylish Windsor, but I don't have the facilities I once had to produce all the components of the chair. 

I wanted a big bold chair that would make a powerful statement yet compliment other furniture and antiques in our home. I had a look through the renowned bible of English vernacular seating by Bernard D. Cotton, The English Regional Chair. However, I didn't see exactly what I wanted. 

I recently purchased an excellent new book simply titled Windsor Chairs by Michael Harding-Hill, an established English dealer specialising in Windsors. Therein I found the precise style of chair I was yearning for; a double bow elbow chair with four cabriole legs, made in the Thames Valley region in the last quarter of the eighteenth century. 

There is a Windsor chairmaker in the next village to the one I lived in before I emigrated, so I contacted Carl at Holland Chairs in Martock (in Yandles yard?) and asked him if he would make a chair of the style I had decided on. He quoted me ₤980 for the chair plus shipping and a couple of weeks later I received a few photos of my new chair, dry-assembled, and ready for shipment to Australia. 












Carl was obviously very pleased with the chair as he placed the three photos on his web site: 






To save on the cost of shipping (and also because I relished assembling the chair myself), I asked Carl to send the chair flat-packed. Carl assured me the chair had been fine sanded and all I then needed to do was to glue, assemble and polish the chair.

My Windsor chair finally arrived here on Thursday 16th of October. I opened the crate with huge anticipation. I was utterly appalled by what I saw. Every component – with the possible exception of the back bow - is simply unacceptable.

You can judge for yourself if the chair is acceptable. 



























































































I emailed him the instant I finished unwrapping the contents of the packing case (Thursday 16th of October) asking that he contact me ASAP to discuss the matter, but he didn't respond in his normally prompt manner. I sent the same message by airmail on Saturday and I've still heard nothing back from him.

It could be Carl's away, but being a business, I would have expected to receive an 'out of office' notification by return if he was absent from work. I tried phoning him, but with no luck. I shall try again shortly (we're ten hours ahead of GMT at present). 

Does anyone here know of Holland Chairs? Are they still trading?

Any help or advice at this point would be much appreciated!


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## HandyTim (22 Oct 2008)

This is disgusting :evil: 

I think you should contact Trading Standards.

http://www.somerset.gov.uk/somerset/ete ... ection/ts/

They should tell you if the Sale of Goods Act is applicable to a foreign customer.

I hope you get it sorted.

Good luck

Tim


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## Philly (22 Oct 2008)

Ouch - it certainly doesn't seem to be fine sanded. And that's a pretty coarse chair for the money.
Philly


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## Karl (22 Oct 2008)

Blimey - that is appalling. The more the pictures went on, the worse it got.

Hope you get things sorted. How did you pay for the item?

Cheers

Karl


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## PowerTool (22 Oct 2008)

Don't know of them,and would like to see their response but..


> I would be embarrassed to have this chair in my home


..
sums it all up for me - you certainly haven't got what you paid for  

Hope you can get to a satisfactory conclusion.

Andrew


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## Woodwould (22 Oct 2008)

HandyTim":m3h0gc5b said:


> This is disgusting :evil:
> 
> I think you should contact Trading Standards.
> 
> ...



Thanks.


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## wizer (22 Oct 2008)

At least it will keep you warm in the winter.... :twisted: 

Seriously, file a complain with PayPal for item seriously not as described. Last time I did it (a long time ago) I got my money back with little bother.


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## OPJ (22 Oct 2008)

Well, I sincerely hope you can get your money back or, at least some form of compensation.

If you're looking to try another maker then you could try contacting James Mursell, who is well known from many articles in woodworking magazines over here.


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## woodbloke (22 Oct 2008)

I can't see the pics at the moment but from your description of the way this so called 'chair' has been put together, it sounds pretty appalling...do you celebrate the Gunpwder Plot on Nov 5 in Oz? - Rob


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## Lord Nibbo (22 Oct 2008)

Glad I didn't make it :shock: I would be ashamed if I had to say I did make it.  First words that come to mind to describe it *"Shoddy, tatty"*


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## maltrout512 (22 Oct 2008)

Woodwould, so sorry to see your major problem. It may be me but have a look at your elm seat and note the markings ie knots etc. Then have a look at the pictures that they had taken. I don't think it's the same chair, almost but not. It may be me and if it is sorry for pointing out. I hope that your problem is solved with little stress. As I am in the wood trade happenings like this make me cross, that someone has no thought to the customer what so ever. Got that off my chest. All the best.


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## OPJ (22 Oct 2008)

You know what, Malcolm, I think you're right - we're looking at two different seats! :shock:


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## CWatters (22 Oct 2008)

You probably should write to him recorded delivery to formally reject the chair. Otherwise you are probably deemed to have accepted it. Keep copies of the letter and any response for the credit card company. Normally you also have to give someone the time and oportunity to rectify so I would put a line in the letter asking him to respond by <date> (10 days) with details of the measures he proposes. If you don't get a response by that date then the credit card co should sort you out.


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## CWatters (22 Oct 2008)

OPJ":3dt1j56d said:


> You know what, Malcolm, I think you're right - we're looking at two different seats! :shock:



Certainly looks like it - the knotting is different. Unless the photos are mirrored left to right?


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## maltrout512 (22 Oct 2008)

OPJ I've had another look and what I think might be the case is that the block of elm that they used was say 50 / 60mm thick or so. It's been sawn to make two seats. Now the one that woodwould has, has been turned over, ie the two parts are opened like a book. The reason is that the knot marks are similar etc but are on opposite sides. I know this is not solving the problem, and this is only my opinion that there may have been a misrepresentation along the line. The photos could be mirrored, but although the quality of web photos aren't too good to zoom I can't see any filling on the ears of the top of the legs.


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## Woodwould (22 Oct 2008)

I think the image of the chair that I was sent was flipped. If you look at it closely, you can see the same markings reversed.


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## filsgreen (22 Oct 2008)

No offence and I don't know the law WW, but I would consider the content of what you post on a public forum.

Phil


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## beech1948 (22 Oct 2008)

Well I found him on the net. Phone number is attached.

here is URL.

http://www.freeindex.co.uk/profile(j-m- ... air-makers)_78244.ht

I would give him one call and then I would ask Paypal for my money back due to not as expected or even not delivered and I would contact Trading Standards to complain.

best of luck with getting this sorted.

regards
Alan


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## Chris Knight (22 Oct 2008)

How very disappointing for you. Indeed your pictures show that it is a very poor piece of work. I'd pursue recompense vigorously if I were you.


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## Pete Howlett (22 Oct 2008)

No need to think you have been conned - you have! £980 for that pile of firewood... sheeesh :shock:


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## TheTiddles (22 Oct 2008)

I think we have at least one more criminal to send over to you by the looks of it! 

Get in touch with PayPal and get your money back, then send the thing back, if it's possible, do that without paying the postage, but I doubt that's feasible. Contact trading standards, you are definitely protected under the sales of goods act, though that protection is very limited.

Whoever made that should think about a career change, perhaps to be a brain donor...

Aidan


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## TonyW (22 Oct 2008)

filsgreen":jffr7rqn said:


> No offence and I don't know the law WW, but I would consider the content of what you post on a public forum.
> 
> Phil


I think this is a point well made - just be careful what you post it may not help you with any future actions. Not sure of the law though!!

FWIW IMO It looks dreadful for a paid for piece and certainly not worth the price paid.

I hope you reach a satisfactory conclusion.

Cheers  
Tony


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## tnimble (22 Oct 2008)

What a lovely chair[/b]fire wood! I hope the person that made it had a bad day whilst making this :shock:


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## Ironballs (22 Oct 2008)

I've never carved a thing in my life but I reckon I could do a better job of those arms than the jokers that did this. With regard to posting content on a forum I would only worry if this is going to harm any negotiations you have with them (and by the sounds of it, it won't) and if you're posting untruths.

I think you've posted a very honest appraisal and I'm ashamed that an apparent English craftsmen has ripped off a customer from abroad with a piece of furniture that would struggle to be sold in a second hand flea market

Good luck


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## Digit (22 Oct 2008)

That is truly dreadful.

Roy.


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## RobertMP (22 Oct 2008)

On the photography forum where I moderate we would not allow a thread like this where the individual or company is not present to defend themselves.

I don't know enough about the law to say what can legally bring trouble for the forum but I'd be inclined to play safe if it were my call.


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## thejhw (22 Oct 2008)

I have seldom seen a more valid cause for complaint!
In many walks of life customers complain because they just don't like the end result, but this is truly awful.
Please, accept nothing less than a full and complete refund, including shipping and taxes.
These people are in Yandles yard, but I can't believe that Yandles could have any idea that they might be associated with this kind of tat.

Jim


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## Digit (22 Oct 2008)

Dickens commented that 'the law is a ass', and if posting those images causes the poster problems then Dickens was correct.
If a tradesman's work can't stand scrutiny he should give the job up altogether IMO.

Roy.


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## neilyweely (22 Oct 2008)

mmmhhhh. bad scene. I do have a background in law and would also advise you to be careful what you say. The photo's speak for themselves, so you really don't need the captions anyway. 
I wonder if the wrong chair was sent? I myself would have sent the money back before sending a piece of work that was likely to damage my reputation (such as it is) irretrieveably. 
However, it will be interesting to find out what the maker says about this. 

In the interim I would document all calls, keep copies (dated) of ALL correspondence relevant to the chair, and send a letter (recorded delivery) as a notice of intent to the 'defendant' offering him a chance to remedy the situation. I believe the standard time frame for a response is 14 days, after which I would begin the recovery process, first with Paypal or credit card company, and if no joy there then with the small claims court. Should be a clear cut case.

Hope this helps, and good luck. 

Neil ( chippy - ex High Court Officer!!)


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## Woodwould (22 Oct 2008)

RobertMP":2l3c6qrn said:


> On the photography forum where I moderate we would not allow a thread like this where the individual or company is not present to defend themselves.
> 
> I don't know enough about the law to say what can legally bring trouble for the forum but I'd be inclined to play safe if it were my call.



Carl Holland is aware of this thread.


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## Woodwould (22 Oct 2008)

Digit":10bz089y said:


> Dickens commented that 'the law is a ass', and if posting those images causes the poster problems then Dickens was correct.
> If a tradesman's work can't stand scrutiny he should give the job up altogether IMO.
> 
> Roy.



Indeed. Hollands are fully aware of this thread and my complaint. I have said nothing libelous, just asked for peer opinion of the photos to gauge my course of action.


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## Karl (22 Oct 2008)

RobertMP":36a8mcmu said:


> On the photography forum where I moderate we would not allow a thread like this where the individual or company is not present to defend themselves.



Can I ask why? WW feels (in my view rightly) aggrieved at the quality of the product he has received. He has tried to contact the manufacturer, but to no avail. If the manufacturer chooses not to respond on this forum, that is his choice.

Cheers

Karl


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## Jake (22 Oct 2008)

If something is true, it can't be libellous. Unless the photographs are false, there isn't much risk here for the OP or Charley as publisher (although whether he is willing to take any risk when he hasn't much to gain from his forum being used like this is up to him).

I wouldn't send it back - reject it, but it's theirs to collect at their expense - no reason for you to incur any more cost.


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## BradNaylor (23 Oct 2008)

Jake":3g7x6pme said:


> If something is true, it can't be libellous. Unless the photographs are false, there isn't much risk here for the OP or Charley as publisher


 
I am sure that Jake is quite correct; I am also sure that the OP has been treated shabbily by the chair maker. 

However, I worry from a forum member's point of view about the precedent being set regarding a new member pursuing a personal grievance in this way through these columns. 

Woodwould claims that has 'just asked for peer opinion of the photos to gauge my course of action.' 

This is a little disingenuous. If the matter had been raised in that way there would be no problem. However, Woodwould actually voiced his own opinion strongly from the outset that he has been the victim of fraud and misrepresentation. 

If we are not careful we could arrive at the situation whereby these forums are being used to settle scores and conduct petty vendettas behind a safe cloak of anonymity. 

I hope that Woodwould gets his problem resolved but feel that a note of caution needs to be raised about the precedent set by the manner in which he has brought it to our attention. 

Cheers 
Dan


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## Woodwould (23 Oct 2008)

Dan Tovey":o2qyzzor said:


> Jake":o2qyzzor said:
> 
> 
> > If something is true, it can't be libellous. Unless the photographs are false, there isn't much risk here for the OP or Charley as publisher
> ...


I admit I have only joined this forum recently, but I have also contributed to other threads. Would the moderators please let me know if they'd like me to modify or remove this thread. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here.


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## gardenshed (23 Oct 2008)

I admit I have only joined this forum recently, but I have also contributed to other threads. Would the moderators please let me know if they'd like me to modify or remove this thread. I don't want to ruffle any feathers here.[/quote]



Keep posting, no feathers ruffled here  


.


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## Digit (23 Oct 2008)

Nor here!

Roy.


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## Oryxdesign (23 Oct 2008)

Looking forward to seeing the right outcome, hopefully for you


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## maltrout512 (23 Oct 2008)

I don't see a problem in venting, as long as all parties have had an opportunity to try and resolve the problem first. If a customer has tried without or with success then they should be able to post their outcome. Good or Bad.
This is only my thoughts which may be right, may be wrong.

_A satisfied customer may only tell one other person, but an unhappy customer will tell ten people and more. _ ANNO


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## NickWelford (23 Oct 2008)

Totally unacceptable - I echo OPJ - James Murcell is ace.

With regard to the legitimacy of the post - he is just seeking advice from us experts.


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## PaulO (23 Oct 2008)

It doesn't look very well made to my untrained Windsor eye. 

However, buyer beware. I don't think you should be surprised at the chair you received. You selected the manufacturer purely on the basis of his proximity to the village you used to live in. You sent money half way around the world for a chair you hadn't seen but for some blurry photos. The chair he delivered is in the style you requested, as shown by the fact that you paid for it based on a photo.

When you don't like the result you complain on here, or perhaps "ask for opinions"

What warranties did the maker make to you that he would do a job that would meet your expectations? 

I'm afraid you ordered a chair in the style of one you saw in a book from a man on the other side of the world, without checking references. He fulfilled his side of the deal by delivering that chair.

Your posts on this forum would have been better spent if you had asked for recommendations before the purchase. But hindsight is wonderful.

I would also echo what others have said, you should not post this here. Your complaint is with the maker, and you should give him adequate time to respond and make good. Making rude comments on here before he has had a chance to reply is going to harm any future claim you may choose to make. 

I hope that the situation gets resolved to your satisfaction.


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## Digit (23 Oct 2008)

According to the original post the vendor was informed by E-Mail on the 16 of this month and the thread opened on the 22nd, it is now the 23rd, so OK the vendor may have been run over in the intervening period so may have a valid reason for not responding.
If not it might be interesting to hear what he has to say.
I fail to see why ordering a certain style via an image has anything to do with the quality of work though.

Roy.


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## Rich (23 Oct 2008)

WHERE has the poster been rude? he has merely reported the facts as they are and has given Hollands the opportunity to reply and state their case, it's not as if they are unaware of the situation as the poster has proof they have received his correspondence, anyway the law states that if you are unhappy with your purchase, you can return it and demand a full refund, why the poster has not done this immediately , I don't know.
but he has at least been patient enough to allow Hollands to state their case.

Regards,

Rich.


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## 13eightyfour (23 Oct 2008)

If the maker knows this thread exists and hasnt contacted the admin regarding its removal i cant see a problem with it, On a computer forum im a member of topics like this come up all the time with suppliers messing people about giving wrong products etc.. In some cases the suppliers have even signed up to resolve the problem. I know if it was me who made the chair and i was made aware of this thread i'd have jumped in by now to try and explain what went wrong.


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## PaulO (23 Oct 2008)

Rich":3i1zwef9 said:


> WHERE has the poster been rude?



Ah, I see the the OP has edited his post, very wise.

My order of action in this situation would be:
1) Complain to vendor.
2) If no satisfaction from vendor, threaten legal action.
3) If no satisfaction from vendor, take legal action.
4) If legal action successful then warn others on forum.

I would expect to allow at least 3 - 4 weeks between each of the first three actions. 

Performing action 4 early *will* prejudice the outcome of action 3.

Just IMHO.


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## neilyweely (23 Oct 2008)

truth is not necessarily a defence with libel; there are certain circumstances when the fact that what you have said is correct matters not. If there are any details that have been written which are disputable then this may cause trouble and compromise your chances of successful recovery. 

Interestingly enough, if a case was ever bought about in an issue such as this, then due restriction may come into it, as there are continents involved I am not sure what would happen. I do not know a great deal about this, and would be interested to find out how it was dealt with.
I think I would wait until I had won the case before saying too much though!!! There is also the possibility of 'showing your cards' too early!!

Neil


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## Jake (23 Oct 2008)

neilyweely":1vyxx47k said:


> truth is not necessarily a defence with libel



Erm, yes it is. 



> ; there are certain circumstances when the fact that what you have said is correct matters not.



Without wishing to derail the thread, I'd be interested to know what you think those are.



> If there are any details that which have been written which are disputable then this may cause trouble.



That's because if they might not be true, then it might be a libel.


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## neilyweely (23 Oct 2008)

criminal libel is different to civil libel, or at least was, as far as this is concerned.


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## Woodwould (23 Oct 2008)

PaulO":2ggc15pr said:


> You selected the manufacturer purely on the basis of his proximity to the village you used to live in.


No I didn't. I sought recommendations from several sources including former woodworking friends in the UK. I settled on Holland as a result of the recommendations (despite them being, in some cases, 100% more expensive than others I considered), but also because I believe in shopping locally – my family still live a few miles from Martock.



PaulO":2ggc15pr said:


> What warranties did the maker make to you that he would do a job that would meet your expectations?


Plenty. I don't want to go into any specific details for obvious reasons.



PaulO":2ggc15pr said:


> I'm afraid you ordered a chair in the style of one you saw in a book from a man on the other side of the world, without checking references. He fulfilled his side of the deal by delivering that chair.


Incorrect/Far from it.



PaulO":2ggc15pr said:


> Your complaint is with the maker, and you should give him adequate time to respond and make good. Making rude comments on here before he has had a chance to reply is going to harm any future claim you may choose to make.


In all our early dealings, emails were answered by return, but that's not the case since I complained. I have not posted anything rude on this forum, though I did delete some text as it was superfluous, but not libellous or rude. I have spoken to Holland on the phone and I was left in no doubt as to his position on the matter and he has had every opportunity to respond here.[/quote]


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## PaulO (24 Oct 2008)

I responded based on what I had read here, including your original unedited post. From your replies it is obvious that there is more going on than you have posted.

As I said in my original post, I wish you luck, and I hope that this is resolved to your satisfaction.

Sorry if I offended you.


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## big soft moose (24 Oct 2008)

Jake":3h84g5ay said:


> neilyweely":3h84g5ay said:
> 
> 
> > truth is not necessarily a defence with libel
> ...



The only one that comes to mind is when the true fact is used in a defamatory way

for example suppose that you were grossly overweight, and also that you had a relatively low IQ, and i had evidence that this was true

If I wrote "_Jake is grossly overweight and has a relatively low IQ_" then you could not accuse me of libel as i would demonstrate in court that i had stated the facts correctly.

If however I wrote "_jake is a big fat silly person_" on the end of a post and by doing so implied that whatever view you had stated was invalid, you would have a case for defamation because although i could demonstrate that you were both overweight and unintelligent I would have stated those facts in a defamatory way designed to bring your other expertise into doubt.


*For the record I would like to be clear that as far as i am aware jake is neither grossly overweight or unintelligent and i am not suggesting overwise - this was an example only*


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## TrimTheKing (24 Oct 2008)

LOL

Moose, this is just not acceptable, now please go away and stop being a chubby fool! :wink: 

Mark


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## Anonymous (24 Oct 2008)

big soft moose":38xtw77w said:


> Jake is grossly overweight and has a relatively low IQ



Ah, don't you love the way quotes can be (ab)used! :wink: 

Dave


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## track821ok (24 Oct 2008)

Good on you woodwould - that looks shockingly sub-standard from what you have posted and described - I wish you all the best in getting this resolved to your satisfaction.

Ps - to all the legal eagles on here too concerned about the libel laws (points taken though), there's an interesting case currently ongoing - link; 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dback.html

Got to say the case linked to and below seems to be on a hiding to nothing - we shall see...



> But when the phone arrived a few days later, he was disappointed to find it was the wrong model and appeared to be damaged.
> After returning his purchase and receiving a refund from the seller, Joel Jones, he used the online auction website's feedback section - which can be read by other people - to give his honest opinion of the transaction.
> 'Item was scratched, chipped and not the model advertised on Mr Jones's eBay account,' he wrote, assuming it was the end of the matter...
> Chris Read is facing a court battle after leaving negative feedback on eBay for a mobile phone he bought on the auction site
> ...


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## Digit (24 Oct 2008)

I saw the report as well, rather surprising as E-Bay invites the feed back, and vendors must know that.

Roy.


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## CWatters (24 Oct 2008)

Check out..
http://feedback.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI ... terval=180


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## neilyweely (24 Oct 2008)

I am no legal eagle, just a humble kitchen fitter, and am well out of my depth here when it comes to woodwork skills. And I know it. But I have an 'advisor' (Dad) who is a legal eagle. When he tells me a legal point I tend to take it as gospel. 

Regarding the chair as I said in my first post the pic's speak for themselves and showing them could not invite any trouble. I would personally feel distraught if my name had been splashed about like this; the power of the press etc is massive, and can ruin lives. But the chair IS bad. 

I'll get my coat.....Sorry if I have ruffled any feathers.


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## Jake (24 Oct 2008)

big soft moose":tad6c4ha said:


> If however I wrote "_jake is a big fat silly person_" on the end of a post and by doing so implied that whatever view you had stated was invalid, you would have a case for defamation because although i could demonstrate that you were both overweight and unintelligent I would have stated those facts in a defamatory way designed to bring your other expertise into doubt.



If you can prove the truth of the proposition that I am a "big fat silly person", you can say it where and how you like, in whaytever context, and it won't be defamatory - it can't be. Fortunately for me, you wouldn't be able to prove one of them, whereas I can say with every justification that you are definitely a big soft moose.


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## Digit (24 Oct 2008)

:lol: :lol: Like that! Chalk one up to Jake!.
No offence Moose.

Roy.


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## Pete Howlett (24 Oct 2008)

Over on the ukulele forums where I am active I get adverse psotings and it is really irritating - and my work is never bad. if I make a cock-up it goes on the bonfire - no-one gets a second...

However this was a clear rip-off and if wouldwoods's only recourse to an evaluation on this site then I think he did the right thing. Holland's should have fessed up and replaced the chair immediately.


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## Digit (24 Oct 2008)

Every business gets a few unhappy customers Pete. Some may have a genuine complaint, some may well feel that they have, others couldn't be satisfied under any circumstances.
One I had was eventually blacklisted by every local electrical retailer and service engineer.
Perhaps we should start a thread about some of the weird customer experiences, I could add a few.
:lol: 

Roy.


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## CWatters (25 Oct 2008)

The ebay community forum had a thread on strange feed back. l recall one seller, who sold DVDs, got negative feedback from people who didn't like the movie.


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## Benchwayze (25 Oct 2008)

I can't make Windsor Chairs. Looks like I'm not alone then.

Shocking work. Pure tat. You had a right to expect much better. 
My commiserations. 

John


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## Digit (25 Oct 2008)

> negative feedback from people who didn't like the movie.


 :lol: :lol: 
The world's full of 'em Colin.

Roy.


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## Woodwould (26 Oct 2008)

Can anyone recommend any other Windsor chairmakers in the UK? Please specify whether by reputation or personal experience and whether of their products or their character.

Thanks muchly.


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## filsgreen (26 Oct 2008)

Are there no Windsor chair makers in Australia woodwould? After your experience, I would be reluctant to use anybody where I couldn't personally see their work.


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## Woodwould (26 Oct 2008)

There are a few chairmakers here, but they seem to only make American style chairs (which is hardly surprising considering most books on the subject are American). I really don't like the American style chairs and I don't think I could trust someone who had no appreciation or concept of traditional English chairs to make me one. The other thing is that they use Australian timbers.

If I can find a good chairmaker in the UK, I would ask a member of my family in the UK (who have a good understanding of antique furniture) to view the chair prior to shipping it out here. If only I had thought of doing this in the first instance!

Even though I'm not in the best of health, if I could get my hands on the right timbers, I would consider giving it a go myself. I've made between 15 and 20 Windsors in the past, so I have a reasonable amount of experience to draw on. However, shipping sufficient sawn timber here would be as expensive as getting someone to make and ship a complete chair, so you can understand my dilema.


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## filsgreen (26 Oct 2008)

Hope you find someone, can't help you any further than that. Here in Jersey they don't even keep Cherry in stock, you have to order it from the main land. Mind you it is only an island 9 x 5 miles with a population of about 90000 :?


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## OPJ (26 Oct 2008)

Woodwould":23rtxsh9 said:


> Can anyone recommend any other Windsor chairmakers in the UK? Please specify whether by reputation or personal experience and whether of their products or their character.



As I mentioned earlier in the thread, one guy I know of is James Mursell. No personal experience and I've never met the guy but, I've been reading his articles in the UK magazines for the last couple of years and he clearly knows what he's doing! :wink:


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## Woodwould (26 Oct 2008)

Thanks, I did contact James and he's too busy, so recommended me to another chairmaker. I've already contacted him, but I'd like to examine as many options as possible.


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## Steve Maskery (26 Oct 2008)

Does anyone remember the name of the bloke demonstrating at the National Wood Fair, Beacon Hill? Excellent work, but, as I recall, a full order book.

I can't remember his name, though I'll know it when I hear it.
S


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## Sgian Dubh (26 Oct 2008)

Woodwould":2xnvi255 said:


> Can anyone recommend any other Windsor chairmakers in the UK?



Well known and respected. Slainte. http://www.tomthackraywindsorchairs.co.uk/index.htm


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## Rich (26 Oct 2008)

Norm demonstrates how to make them, it is spread over 2 programmes, 

Rich.


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## Neil Dyball (26 Oct 2008)

Hi Woodwould,

I've read the 'gist' of this thread and can only offer my sympathies for the awful treatment you've received and hope you'll get a full refund - maybe less the value of the firewood!

There's a firm of specialist chairmakers about 4 miles away from where I live, they're called Finewood (see www.mendleshamchairs.co.uk) and specialise in the Mendlesham variation of the Windsor chair, although they certainly supply other variations. 

I don't have any personal connections with the company although I do know both Albert Lain (the head honcho) and his son Jeremy through the local woodturning clubs. I've actually been to the 'factory' and seen the guys there in action recently when I was off work following a heart attack. Factory is totally overstating the set-up, it's actually just 4 or 5 guys working in a small but perfectly tidy space producing quality handmade items. They were actually turning some 8ft long wooden columns for a local house when I had a tour.

To give you an idea of the quality, their chairs have been presented as a gift to the Queen (who I believe also ordered one as a gift for a President of the USA - not sure which one) and are exhibited in the Victoria & Albert museum in London.

I think the price range is around the £1,000 mark, which I seem to remember isn't dis-similar to your purchase this time? If I had a spare thousand pounds I'd be buying one myself, if I had more I'd buy several! 

Reading your thread it's obvious you're capable of assembling a pre-made chair yourself and Jeremy did tell me that they provide a 'kit' of parts option so that you can finish a chair yourself. I'm not sure exactly what this comprises or entails but it might be worth asking as it would bring the cost down and make it more personal.

Hope some of this helps, any questions please pm me. 

Best regards and hope you get a satisfactory outcome!

Neil.


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## Woodwould (26 Oct 2008)

Sgian Dubh":oar0m1up said:


> Woodwould":oar0m1up said:
> 
> 
> > Can anyone recommend any other Windsor chairmakers in the UK?
> ...


Many thanks! I just emailed Tom.


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## Woodwould (26 Oct 2008)

Neil Dyball":1ey2hjhm said:


> Hi Woodwould,
> 
> I've read the 'gist' of this thread and can only offer my sympathies for the awful treatment you've received and hope you'll get a full refund - maybe less the value of the firewood!
> 
> ...



Thank you very much indeed. I have emailed Albert now too.


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## hpl (27 Oct 2008)

Just to mention that Albert Lain is someone who I am familiar with, mostly as a turner, but he has been in the woodworking trade more years than I have. I have not seen his chairs personally but he is know locally as a quality craftsman.

Johnny B


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