# Huntley Oak Saw



## woodbloke (31 Jul 2011)

I spent a very pleasant afternoon yesterday at Mike Huntley's place making a few shavings with some Japanese planes (kana): 







Mike is shown planing an initial surface with a Clifi as the kana are set up as smoothers and not jointing planes. 






I was there at Mike's annual BBQ but it was also an opportunity to have a look at the new 'shop and discuss all things tool orientated, particularly Japanese planes and saws. 

We were trying out a collection of planes belonging to this chap (didn't get his name  ) 














... 

...with some of my efforts shown below: 
















I didn't realize that all parts of a blacksmith forged Japanese plane blade are deliberately curved except the bevel and 10mm of the back which means that setting them up is a true work of art. Also, minute variations in the way it's set up make a huge difference to the performance, especially at competition level. Apparently, different planes are usually set up for different woods which makes life interesting. We were planing some WRC, pine and tulip wood yesterday with the tulip wood being by far the most pleasant to plane. 

I digress. Mike has a limited quantity of his 'Huntley Oak Saws' for sale: 






which is cross cut saw where the teeth have been set correctly by 'Z' saws (the makers) to cut joints in hardwood. Details of the saw are as follows: 

pitch - 14 tpi 
blade length - 265 mm 
blade thickness - 0.6 mm 
kerf - 0.78 mm 

I tried one of these saws on some English Oak at length yesterday and although it's designated as a cross cut, it'll track effortlessly along the grain as well. One of these is now residing in my 'shop :-" :mrgreen: ...butter, hot and knife don't even come close. If you like Japanese saws...highly recommended and if you want one, contact Mike directly at [email protected] for the price. 

Mike would also like to apologise to all those who've signed up for the email letter on Japanese tools. He's been snowed under with domestic family issues lately but hopes to get something out very shortly - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (31 Jul 2011)

woodbloke":195quld5 said:


> Mike is shown planing an initial surface with a Clifi



Good to see that Mike has at least one decent plane........ :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (31 Jul 2011)

I'm not biting Paul :lol: ...we had to use one Western style plane to get a working surface. Using the kana is a completely different experience and you wouldn't believe the complexities of the things, simple though they appear, for example, just note the grip when in use...index or second finger hooked behind the iron. This is to 'lift' the plane at that end, whilst pressing down with the other, not easy to get the knack of - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (31 Jul 2011)

woodbloke":1mrzyo5p said:


> Using the kana is a completely different experience and you wouldn't believe the complexities of the things, simple though they appear, for example, just note the grip when in use...index or second finger hooked behind the iron. This is to 'lift' the plane at that end, whilst pressing down with the other, not easy to get the knack of



That's what I don't get about the Japanese way of woodworking. Everything seems counter-intuitive. They almost seem to revel in making things difficult. Still, many people are fans of Japanese tools and the way they work so I suppose there must be something in it :duno: 

Incidentally, I was chatting to Mike Hudson of Clifton about the Japanese way of woodworking. He had some Japanese people over and was demonstrating his planes but they just couldn't get the hang of using them, so I suppose it works both ways. 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Fat ferret (31 Jul 2011)

Those straight handled saws look uncomfortable to me. How do you "steer" as it were, when the handle is round?


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## woodbloke (1 Aug 2011)

Fat ferret":xp499ahf said:


> Those straight handled saws look uncomfortable to me. How do you "steer" as it were, when the handle is round?


Like everything else it's a bit of learning curve. I hold the handle so it rests inside my forearm, in other words my palm is vertical, in much the same way as a Western saw is held. If it's held with the palm horizontal (ie on top of the handle) then it can get very uncomfortable. These saws cut so effortlessly though that if they're held just between index finger and thumb (a two finger grip) they'll still cut - Rob


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## Benchwayze (1 Aug 2011)

Agree with Rob, mostly; that is to say I couldn't master them. They are also very brittle. Drop one anywhere near metal and it looks like a bad case of pyorrhea... 

John


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## woodbloke (1 Aug 2011)

Benchwayze":py9vsn9b said:


> They are also very brittle. Drop one anywhere near metal and it looks like a bad case of pyorrhea...
> 
> John


We talked about this feature at length as well John. Neither I or Mike have ever broken a tooth on a Japanese saw when in use and we came to the conclulsion that users may tend to apply too much downward pressure to force the blade through, which isn't necessary. However, drop one on a floor, or aquire a 'ding' with the edge of the vice and it's a different kettle of worms...but then would you do that with a LN?..I suspect not - Rob


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## Benchwayze (1 Aug 2011)

woodbloke":1wq6uhu6 said:


> Benchwayze":1wq6uhu6 said:
> 
> 
> > They are also very brittle. Drop one anywhere near metal and it looks like a bad case of pyorrhea...
> ...



Not for amusement anyhow Rob! :mrgreen: More than happy with the LN I have, the one with which you are familiar of course!

regards
John


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

I simply love my little double-sided Ryoba....and could really do with a saw with unlimited depth but I have a feeling that my "cheap" one at £58 would be really cheap compared with this one...am I right Rob?

I'm frightened to even ask!  

The whole journey of the kana is a major specialist field...if what I read in the excellent Fine Woodworking article is to be believed. The creation of the optimum plane is bordering on genetic engineering in its complexity...a slope I fear, I haven't the patience for.

Really interesting stuff though!

Jimi


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## woodbloke (1 Aug 2011)

jimi43":2jw3qmxo said:


> I simply love my little double-sided Ryoba....and could really do with a saw with unlimited depth but I have a feeling that my "cheap" one at £58 would be really cheap compared with this one...am I right Rob?
> 
> I'm frightened to even ask!
> 
> Jimi


Jimi, you'd be very, *very* wrong!...enquire for details, you'll be pleasantly surprised :wink: 

Please note, I got Mike's email address wrong   ...now changed. 

Mike also had this to say on the subject of 'steering' the saw..."_Japanese saws cut to the line, there is no "steering". Bad preparation of the saw, ie irregular set, or missing teeth may throw the cut off. Also irregularities in the timber may also throw the cut off, but those issues should be addressed by choosing a different saw. Not by steering._ - Rob


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

woodbloke":3epb183d said:


> jimi43":3epb183d said:
> 
> 
> > I simply love my little double-sided Ryoba....and could really do with a saw with unlimited depth but I have a feeling that my "cheap" one at £58 would be really cheap compared with this one...am I right Rob?
> ...



Lord! It doesn't take much to convince me on these things...I love 'em.

Even though it is mid-summer....not my birthday....not the dog's birthday and there isn't even an "R" in the month...I'll bite!

Email sent! :mrgreen: 

Cheers for the info mate

Jimi


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## woodbloke (1 Aug 2011)

Jim...PM sent - Rob


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## toolsntat (1 Aug 2011)

Rob the guy with the planes.....
Andy Ryalls ??

Andy


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

Rob...now you know what happens if you have one already and you get another one...

If it gets out...people will think I'm a collector!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## woodbloke (1 Aug 2011)

toolsntat":2goj6sg1 said:


> Rob the guy with the planes.....
> Andy Ryalls ??
> 
> Andy


Correct - Rob


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## jimi43 (3 Aug 2011)

Ok Rob...you sold it to me...

Actually....being the cheapskate git that I am....and since I am fairly familiar with making handles...I decided just to get the blade...which worked out just over £19 delivered...which it was within 24 hours.

Super website...fantastic communications and great tips for projects make this one of my favourite places now...

Ok...so knock on the door...small signed for package containing:






This is just the size I wanted...superb piece of very well made steel and tip hardened razor sharp teeth!






It comes in a rust protective sheet...inside that envelope which has all the details of sizes and kerf width etc.

So...all there was left to do was to make a temporary handle so that I could work out the engineering...I had a piece of yew left over from the bowsaw project...so that was perfect for the job...






The hook at the rear of the blade slotted up into a sawcut in the handle...two bolts (temporary) give a lever lock and when tightened, held the blade firmly in place...






I tested it quickly on a piece of scrap American walnut and it went through like a hot knife (etc...) as you said and left very little clean-up , it also followed the line with very little effort and was overall...a pleasure to use!






I will do various tests over the next few weeks...I think I may have quite a few jobs in line for this little baby...but for now...for less than a score...it's a major bargain and super quality tool!

Oh....and they even sent a free pencil....which I used when making the handle! 

Bravo Woodwork Project...nice job! 8) 

Thanks Rob.... =D> =D> =D> 

Jim


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## jimi43 (3 Aug 2011)

Quick update...

I cut to just inside a scored line on a piece of English oak....






That'll do me!

Jim


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## woodbloke (4 Aug 2011)

Told ya :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: (hammer) ...good init! :lol: :lol: - Rob


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## jimi43 (4 Aug 2011)

woodbloke":1833z79b said:


> Told ya :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: (hammer) ...good init! :lol: :lol: - Rob



Generally speaking...these saws are up there in the £40-50 mark and it is refreshing to see someone selling them at a reasonable price...one has to wonder what all the other dealers are making since these probably all come from the same supplier in Japan...or one of a few!

If anything this one cuts better than the Axminster one I bought...like I said...for nigh on £60.

Don't get me wrong...it's a nice saw but this one is better!

Will let you know more when I test it further...

Jim


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