# New Mill



## cjharley (27 Jan 2021)

Hi I have purchased a new mill, what tooling should i buy to start using. I am a complete novice at machining sorry. I am gearing up for retirement "15 years away" I am also purchasing a Lathe so any advice on tooling for a "dummy" LOL


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## Jelly (27 Jan 2021)

Honestly, it really depends what you want to do; and you will never, ever be done with buying tooling and accessories, _never_; it will just get weirder shaped and more niche as you challenge yourself more!

I would suggest getting a couple of the "Workshop Practice" books on basic turning and milling, to help guide you through some simple projects, which will help you figure out what you need to buy when...

My experience has been that buying/making tooling as I've identified the need for it has generally resulted in much better purchases as I have a really clear idea of what I'm buying and what I need it to do.

At a minimum I would think by the time you reach a point of being confidently able to take on just about any basic machining project, you'll have ended up accumulating something like:

Measuring equipment:
Accurate Digital/Dial/Vernier calipers which will read to 0.001"
Outside micrometers in at least 0-1" and 1-2" sizes
Inside micrometer in 0.125-1"
Spring-loaded bore gauges in 0.5"-6"
Some kind of micrometer/vernier height/depth gauge
A very flat surface (ideally a surface plate, but any kind of very flat thing is a step in the right direction.)
Vernier Protractor or Digital Angle gauge

Generic workshop equipment:
Little files in all kinds of shapes and relatively fine toothing
Soft-jaws for your vice
A decent plumbers blowtorch or welding torch, and some fire-bricks and welding blankets to use for warming things up, brazing, and crude heat-treatment/annealing.
A bunch of big clamps and/or a small hydraulic press

Workholding stuff for the mill:
Milling Vice
V-Blocks for holding round stock
Clamping Kit with an assortment of t-nuts and hold-downs

Workholding for the lathe:
A 4-Jaw chuck if it didn't come with one
and/or a Collet chuck if you have the money to play with, and intend to make a lot of smaller diameter parts.

Tooling for the lathe:
A bunch of square high-speed steel blanks of an appropriate size for your lathe's toolpost
A parting tool holder and some parting tool blades
Some steel bar, grub screws and round high speed steel blanks to make boring bars as needed.
A bench grinder for sharpening lathe tools

Tooling for the Mill:
A Decent Collet Holder (Go ER32 or ER40)
A Fly-Cutter
A Drill-Chuck
A Face-Mill or Shell-Mill and associated Arbour
A Slitting Saw and arbour.
A Boring Head
Tools:
A variety of sizes of HSS Endmills and Slot-Drills
A variety of drills in common and tapping sizes
Some larger Morse-Taper drills
Reamers for certain sizes of holes and/or taper pins but unlikely a full set
Taps, Dies and some kind of spring-loaded follower to allow you to use the mill to get them lined up dead-straight with the hole you just drilled.
Boring bars to fit the boring head
Edgefinder(s)


It's also likely that you'll have duplicates of lot of the HSS tooling in Carbide, because there are times where only one or the other will really do.

At which point you can choose to continue and begin the full descent into madness, moving on to increasingly exotic attachments and cutting tools for things like milling curved surfaces and/or strange angles, turning very shallow tapers (or tapered threads), gear-cutting, spiral milling, rotary broaching, and so on...


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## MusicMan (27 Jan 2021)

Strongly support Jelly's post. That's about the same stuff as I've accumulated, But heed the advice to just buy the stuff you will need for the next project, and some of it can give you useful practice by making them. Strongly agree with the Workshop Practice books by Harold Hall (available at Amazon).


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

Thanks for the advice, I recon you all should call be "Alice" looks like I'm going down the rabbit hole LOL. my goal with all this is to modify my harley and GSX then build bikes. I have bought a load of sheet metal forming equipment, tube benders etc. My shed is the size of a postage stamp. I have a 2x1m welding bench, I am cutting it apart and installing it on a flat car scissor lift in a Pit in the floor to raise it out of the ground to give me the space for the Mill and Lathe. I'm in the process of designing a TAB & Slot top to replace the 12 Steel Plate. I've been putting all this off for years, the way the world is going .... i've decided to take the bull by the horns....again thanks, just with you all live in Northern Ireland. LOL Stay save and take care.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

Jelly said:


> Honestly, it really depends what you want to do; and you will never, ever be done with buying tooling and accessories, _never_; it will just get weirder shaped and more niche as you challenge yourself more!
> 
> I would suggest getting a couple of the "Workshop Practice" books on basic turning and milling, to help guide you through some simple projects, which will help you figure out what you need to buy when...
> 
> ...


Books ordered thanks for the help buddy


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## Jelly (28 Jan 2021)

No worries, there are two other books I'd recommend:

The roebuck "Zeus" databook - it's a little plastic coated workshop reference for all kinds of useful info you might need a reminder of day to day, like tap-drill sizes, bearing fits etc. costs about a fiver, and well worth it.

A copy of Machinery's Handbook - this is the exact opposite of the Zeus book, a huge amount of info on everything you could ever need to know for machining; bought new it's really quite pricey, so as a hobbyist I'd keep a look-out on eBay and pick up an older copy at a decent price when one comes up.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

way ahead of you, I bought roebuck "Zeus" a couple of months back, I need a magnifying to read it LOL


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## AES (28 Jan 2021)

Must agree with Music Man and support Jelly's 2 posts 100% - his 1st doesn't seem to miss anything out, and his 2nd about "Machinery Handbook" and "Zeus" also spot on. If you can't find/afford "Machinery Handbook" a reasonable & cheaper alternative buy would be "Model Engineer's Handbook" which also has a fair amount of info (but not as much as "Machinery Handbook") but also contains stuff on steam which as a motor-bikee I guess you won't need! 

Don't worry about needing a magnifying glass to read Zeus - I need one to do just about anything on my lathe with any "precision" these days, including reading my non-digi callipers!

Most impressed with your "subterranean" welding bench idea, but what a job!!! Must be a good reason for it but wouldn't just extending your shed have been quicker/cheaper.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

My Dream of extending the shed would be great, BUT I live in a 3 bed pensioner's bungalow I maybe have 6x5m in total... hence the lowering welding bench, I have a hydraulic washing line to get it up out of the way LOL yes hydraulic..... The bench will probably cost £2000 - £2500 and this will include a hydraulic fold out side so the full fabrication area will be 1.9x1.6m surface area. I have no room at all...... and the Boss "Wife" will not move, she has lived in the house for 40 years.... since she was a child. + I loved the James Bond films where things cam out of the ground... LOL


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## J-G (28 Jan 2021)

Jelly said:


> A copy of Machinery's Handbook


I'd second that but - get the .PDF of version 26 it's free to download. The fact that it is a previous version is no great issue, the majority of the information is 'standard' and hasn't changed for eons. 

My grandfather gave me his 1924 Sixth edition when I started my apprenticeship in 1956 and I estimate that 80% + is exactly the same.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

your copy might be work something now LOL, but priceless to you ;-)


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## J-G (28 Jan 2021)

cjharley said:


> your copy might be work something now LOL, but priceless to you ;-)


I presume that you meant 'Worth' (b****y keyboards!) but regrettably not. As a teenager, I didn't appreciate it's worth but did use it very frequently and it is now in a sorry state due to my abuse but as you surmise, priceless to me holding very special memories.


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## pidgeonpost (29 Jan 2021)

Plenty of good advice there. Certainly the cost of tooling wasn't something I'd bargained on when I ventured into machining 10-15 years ago. It seemed that every project, however minor, demanded buying yet more tools and materials.
And then there's technique. I have found YouTube invaluable here, as there'll be a video to match virtually any task you want to tackle. I've found 'mrpete222' (aka Tubal Cain) excellent. He's produced loads of videos, and they're available in dvd format too. Take a look also at 'Doubleboost' and his methods.
If I'm honest I've found that achieving the accuracy required in machining small parts difficult after the relatively easy tolerances encountered in woodworking. 'Half-a-thou' may not matter much on your average M&T joint, but it sure does on many machining jobs.
Another thing that I hadn't considered was that many of the model engineering plans use the Imperial system. If you have Metric lathe/mill (as I do) then you'll have plenty of conversion work to do.


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## Rorschach (29 Jan 2021)

Get the biggest lathe and mill that you can comfortably fit in your workspace. You will never ever say "oh I wish I had a smaller machine" but you will always wish you had a bigger one.


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## cjharley (29 Jan 2021)

I'm awaiting quotes for this CORMAK 310x900 12" x 35" Lathe, & I have already bought this a Cormak Machine ZX7055 DRO. The lathe will fit into the side wall of the now "Machine shop" LOL when I get it air tight "30mm" to spare either side LOL. I bought a hobbiest lathe a 6 years ago, I have to rebuild it every time I want to use it, the last time I used super glue to stop it from moving about, now its in the skip.


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## cjharley (29 Jan 2021)

pidgeonpost said:


> Plenty of good advice there. Certainly the cost of tooling wasn't something I'd bargained on when I ventured into machining 10-15 years ago. It seemed that every project, however minor, demanded buying yet more tools and materials.
> And then there's technique. I have found YouTube invaluable here, as there'll be a video to match virtually any task you want to tackle. I've found 'mrpete222' (aka Tubal Cain) excellent. He's produced loads of videos, and they're available in dvd format too. Take a look also at 'Doubleboost' and his methods.
> If I'm honest I've found that achieving the accuracy required in machining small parts difficult after the relatively easy tolerances encountered in woodworking. 'Half-a-thou' may not matter much on your average M&T joint, but it sure does on many machining jobs.
> Another thing that I hadn't considered was that many of the model engineering plans use the Imperial system. If you have Metric lathe/mill (as I do) then you'll have plenty of conversion work to do.


Hi Buddy, this is where i have lucked out, I only know metric ;-) Imperial OMG LOL


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## cjharley (29 Jan 2021)

J-G said:


> I presume that you meant 'Worth' (b****y keyboards!) but regrettably not. As a teenager, I didn't appreciate it's worth but did use it very frequently and it is now in a sorry state due to my abuse but as you surmise, priceless to me holding very special memories.


I would love to blame the keyboard but not reading it properly is the real reason buddy. Simple things bring happier times. With lock down "Red wine is nice" LOL


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## kenledger (29 Jan 2021)

I to agree with Jelly's post, but it normally takes years to accumulate everything suggested. You will need a fat wallet indeed to buy all that.
Work out what you want to make, say something like a Mamod steam engine. Basically steel and brass but you will have a working engine to pass on to the grand children. To make something that 'works' is very satisfying.
You can then move onto something else
What you want is in all our dreams, well they are in my case lol.


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## MusicMan (30 Jan 2021)

I went the route of buying old German or Swedish machines (Boley and Arboga). All metric of course so no issue there.

Funnily enough one of the old Boleys was made for the UK in the 1930s and has an Imperial leadscrew. But fortunately it has a 127 tooth change gear so anything metric can be done.

Indeed the tooling list will cost a bunch. I think Jelly and I were saying that this will be your total budget (well, one never finishes). That is why we both say, buy what you need for the next project.


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## kenledger (5 Feb 2021)

pidgeonpost said:


> Plenty of good advice there. Certainly the cost of tooling wasn't something I'd bargained on when I ventured into machining 10-15 years ago. It seemed that every project, however minor, demanded buying yet more tools and materials.
> And then there's technique. I have found YouTube invaluable here, as there'll be a video to match virtually any task you want to tackle. I've found 'mrpete222' (aka Tubal Cain) excellent. He's produced loads of videos, and they're available in dvd format too. Take a look also at 'Doubleboost' and his methods.
> If I'm honest I've found that achieving the accuracy required in machining small parts difficult after the relatively easy tolerances encountered in woodworking. 'Half-a-thou' may not matter much on your average M&T joint, but it sure does on many machining jobs.
> Another thing that I hadn't considered was that many of the model engineering plans use the Imperial system. If you have Metric lathe/mill (as I do) then you'll have plenty of conversion work to do.




I remember in the mid to late sixties doing my apprenticeship and my City & Guilds. We found that if we sharpened our HSS tool bits (tipped tools were for the Gentry then) with a small radius at the cutting point, run the lathe slow with plenty of coolant we would get a really good finish and good precision to. Remember these machines would have been quite old but in good condition. After all they had been abused by years of cruelty by oiks just like me lol. I could tell you a couple i stories about things i saw that would make your hair curl.


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## pidgeonpost (5 Feb 2021)

kenledger said:


> I remember in the mid to late sixties doing my apprenticeship and my City & Guilds. We found that if we sharpened our HSS tool bits (tipped tools were for the Gentry then) with a small radius at the cutting point, run the lathe slow with plenty of coolant we would get a really good finish and good precision to. Remember these machines would have been quite old but in good condition. After all they had been abused by years of cruelty by oiks just like me lol. I could tell you a couple i stories about things i saw that would make your hair curl.


Ha ha! I don't have much hair, but you're welcome to try.
I've actually put the model engineering to one side for now. I was just getting frustrated and in a bad mood which is not very handy really. I've made 2 small engines one of which won't run, and partially completed a 'Grasshopper' which I fear is unlikely to hop anywhere.
Actually the turning and boring has gone reasonably well, but milling has definitely had its moments.


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## kenledger (14 Feb 2021)

When i got into the second year there was a guy in our group none of us knew. Turned out he had been in the second year for four years if i remember correctly.
I was working on a big surface plate, cant remember doing what now but this guy was working on the cylindrical grinder about ten foot away. The wheel was around 15 to 18in diameter and 2in wide. 
Suddenly there was a grumbling sound behind me followed a massive bang. His work piece fell between the wheel and the machine, luckily there was no room for his work piece to wedge between.
Turns out he had tightened the drive dog then put it between the centres. 
Another time we were told to go to the end of the work shop while he was drilling a hole through a round section that in turn had a hole through the centre of his work, held in one vee block, then a second vee block, in a vice not bolted down.
That was at Croydon College.


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## Sideways (14 Feb 2021)

The Engineer's Black book is a handy pocket book too.
Different to the Zeus tables and not trying to compete with the machinery handbook.
Australian by origin, easy to get here, and very legible.


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## Jelly (14 Feb 2021)

Sideways said:


> The Engineer's Black book is a handy pocket book too.
> Different to the Zeus tables and not trying to compete with the machinery handbook.
> Australian by origin, easy to get here, and very legible.


Not seen that before but it looks very handy as proper working reference... like a bridge between the bare bones of a Zeus book and the overwhelming mass of info in MH.


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## kenledger (15 Feb 2021)

I seem to remember an engineering book in my apprenticeship days, it looked like a bible, it was a right tomb but i would have liked to be able to afford it.


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## J-G (15 Feb 2021)

That would likely be "Machinery's Handbook" - you may not want to afford the cost of a printed version but the 26th Edition is available as a free download in .PDF format.


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## MusicMan (15 Feb 2021)

kenledger said:


> I remember in the mid to late sixties doing my apprenticeship and my City & Guilds. We found that if we sharpened our HSS tool bits (tipped tools were for the Gentry then) with a small radius at the cutting point, run the lathe slow with plenty of coolant we would get a really good finish and good precision to. Remember these machines would have been quite old but in good condition. After all they had been abused by years of cruelty by oiks just like me lol. I could tell you a couple i stories about things i saw that would make your hair curl.




HSS tools are absolutely fine for home workshops. Tipped tools are really for big high production machines, like taking 5 mm cuts in hard steel. HSS actually gives better finish and precision on smaller-scale machining. Most home lathes won't handle those kinds of cuts anyway.


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## Jelly (15 Feb 2021)

MusicMan said:


> HSS tools are absolutely fine for home workshops. Tipped tools are really for big high production machines, like taking 5 mm cuts in hard steel. HSS actually gives better finish and precision on smaller-scale machining. Most home lathes won't handle those kinds of cuts anyway.



Depends what you want to machine, if you're working with part hardened steel, stainless, tool steel, titanium etc, then the additional wear and heat resistance of carbide is essential, regardless of the size of machine. 

The finish is largely down to how good an edge you can get on the tool, this is easier for mere mortals to achieve with HSS, but using diamond laps or wheels, you can sharpen a carbide tool to give an equivalent surface finish to HSS.


However, you're right to point out that a small machine won't like being given the standard insertable tooling that you'd use on a production machine.

Where the power of the machine is an issue, it is better to use Brazed Carbide which has been sharpened like a HSS tool bit, or choose small inserts with positive/neutral rake and small nose radius to minimise the cutting forces.

On a mill, you have to be mindful of the rigidity which will limit the feed rate, and avoid using overly large carbide endmills or insertable tools which need a higher feed rate and pressure than the machine can accommodate.



I've hard-turned steel at HRc56 successful on a myford super 7 with a small CBN insert, and turned a lot of D2 and S13 steel on the same lathe using insertable carbide tools.

I also hard milled a form cutter from HSS using carbide tooling on a Bridgeport mill, which is one of those tasks which ostensibly can't be done, but was in fact fine (well there were a lot of orange hot chips, but it produced the desired result, and didn't cause catastrophic damage to the tool or mill)



I think OP's machines are probably sufficient to use smaller sizes of insert tooling without too much trouble. Something big like a CCMT2520 would definitely be out, but anything upto 1204 would probably be quite comfortable, and 1608 might be doable in softer materials.


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## Droogs (15 Feb 2021)

J-G said:


> That would likely be "Machinery's Handbook" - you may not want to afford the cost of a printed version but the 26th Edition is available as a free download in .PDF format.


Link?


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## paulrbarnard (15 Feb 2021)

Jelly said:


> No worries, there are two other books I'd recommend:
> 
> The roebuck "Zeus" databook - it's a little plastic coated workshop reference for all kinds of useful info you might need a reminder of day to day, like tap-drill sizes, bearing fits etc. costs about a fiver, and well worth it.
> 
> A copy of Machinery's Handbook - this is the exact opposite of the Zeus book, a huge amount of info on everything you could ever need to know for machining; bought new it's really quite pricey, so as a hobbyist I'd keep a look-out on eBay and pick up an older copy at a decent price when one comes up.


I still use my Zeus pretty much every time I'm working metal. I bought mine when I started my apprenticeship in 1976. It's the first metric addition released in 1974.


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## paulrbarnard (15 Feb 2021)

Droogs said:


> Link?





https://www.vtc1.org/cms/lib/PA03000913/Centricity/Domain/21/Machinerys%20Handbook%2029th%20Edition.pdf


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## Droogs (15 Feb 2021)

got it


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