# West Dean pics



## Chris Knight (31 May 2008)

Great day at West Dean and super to catch up with Forum members including old friends and new faces.

A certain well known plane maker and a well known c**l*c*or












It's OK, Waka had his stash piling up somewhere - he didn't let us down in his quest to own more tools than God.






Garret Hack planing some curly birch.






He uses some extremely simple tools to do his inlay work but they have clever wrinkles and I was happy to spend an hour listening to him.






Brian Boggs using one of his spoke-shaves on a chair leg







Woodbloke's "Wood from Hell"






but this guy (Deneb) tamed it using a low angle jack with 60 degree bevel. Here he is working on another piece






Mind you, he had a few tools to choose from!






These shows are very tiring so one needs to take the occasional rest






Bugbear was there to explain the benefits of his mini square. Adam and his little girl are listening intently..






Although for neat little tools I actually preferred Garret Hack's little scratchstock tool.







Many thanks to Mike Hancock for arranging a great day. I spent enough money personally to justify his efforts..


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## Paul Chapman (31 May 2008)

Had a great day at the West Dean hand tool event organised by Mike Hancock of Classic Hand Tools.

Phil Edwards was there with his range of hand-made Phillyplanes. Here he is pictured with Chris (Waterhead) on the right






And here are some of his planes






I had a very interesting chat with John Lloyd. John is a furniture restorer who also writes regularly in Furniture & Cabinet Making and runs cabinet making courses






Garrett Hack an author/teacher from the USA was demonstrating some lovely inlay work using mainly shop-made tools











And Brian Boggs, also from the USA, was demonstrating his considerable skill with a spokeshave and draw knife











It was very interesting to chat to James Mursell of The Windsor Workshop






It was nice to meet up with some forum members (this side and the other side). Adam was there with his delightful little daughter






Thanks for the bees wax, Adam :wink: 

BugBear (Paul Womack) who I had not met before






Rod (Harbo)






Rob Stoakley was there , seen here chatting to Mike Huntley, the new Editor of Furniture & Cabinet Making






Rob Brought along his pice of "wood from hell" and here's Deneb Puchalske from Lie Nielsen Toolworks trying to tame it






It was nice to meet Nick Gibbs of British Woodworking Magazine






And to chat to Mike Hudson of Clifton Tools who was there with his complete range of my favourite planes











Finally a picture of Waka talking to Mike Hancock about Konrad Sauer's planes (can't think why :-k )






All in all, a fabulous day. It's on tomorrow so if you get the chance, do go.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (31 May 2008)

Another missed event.

Thanks for sharing guys.

Next time.


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## Paul Chapman (31 May 2008)

WiZeR":3ti9vzlu said:


> Another missed event.
> 
> Thanks for sharing guys.
> 
> Next time.



I sincerely hope that Mike will be able to organise similar events in the future. It was quite different from the usual woodworking events in that there was a lot of emphasis on using tools to make things rather than just buying stuff - and Mike was able to get some top class makers there.

An excellent format - well done, Mike =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodyone (31 May 2008)

Great day out i really enjoyed it.

Woody.


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## Mr Ed (31 May 2008)

Nice to see the pictures, its really whet my appetite for my journey down to West Dean tommorrow.


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## Harbo (31 May 2008)

Went with a couple of friends who were not really woodies (they wanted something in Chichester) - however they enjoyed it so much the other shopping trip did not happen.
Bought a raps from Michael Aurio himself and had it signed - probably dare not use it now?
Had a chat with a tall person carrying a doorstop of a plane who I see from the photos was Bugbear!
Everything being sold with a discount.
Great venue, lovely weather, excellent organic burgers and coffee, very nice people.
All in all a great day out.

If you can make it go tomorrow!

Rod


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## woodbloke (31 May 2008)

My pics from the day, a really fabulous day out. Here's Philly at the bench...note the brand new leather apron (why hasn't it been branded with L.... :lol: )






and her's the Wood from Hell being tamed...I was suitably impressed  A LN low angle jack was used with an EF of 62deg and a very tight mouth, maybe .25mm:






...and one of Pete, Paul and Waka...who's probably chortling over a small prospective package he's about to receive shortly from Canada :wink: :lol: 






and finally one of Paul showing another woodnut the delights of the Veritas No 80 scraper:






A great day out and one not to be missed...get along if you can make it - Rob


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## Anonymous (31 May 2008)

Looks like I missed another great show. Always good to see forum members at work (buying I hope).

Lets hope Westonbirt has such good weather.

Dave


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## Good Surname or what ? (31 May 2008)

Will anyone be there tomorrow? Have you left anything for us to buy?


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## Escudo (31 May 2008)

Feeling a bit glum that I missed this do.  , but pleased everyone enjoyed themselves.

Hope Mike can organise another next year, glad to see forum members splashing the cash. Helping the economy and all that....

Cheers, Tony.


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## Slim (31 May 2008)

Escudo":2z0bzwci said:


> Helping the economy and all that....



Any excuse :roll:


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## Waka (1 Jun 2008)

Not really much I can add, it was great to meet up with forum members and swap tips/advice etc.

Mike Hancock put on a really good show and one that I hope will be repeated in the future. I guess the highlights for me were watching the experts at work, they make things look so easy.

Great day out Mike, now looking forward to Westonburt.


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## woodyone (1 Jun 2008)

I enjoyed talking to the lie nelson guy has he gave me alot of tips to do with sharpening. 

Woody.


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## PaulO (1 Jun 2008)

Great show with some great experts there. Came away with a pair of LN skew chisels in cocobolo. I think I prefer the Westonbirt arrangement, which includes scheduled teaching.

My only suggestion would be that Mike Hancock gives Bugbear his own work bench next year, hopefully a good distance away. So that he can tell everyone how his contrivances are superior to their's. That way I could listen to the experts, instead of Bugbear telling them how it should be done. (Rant over :wink: )


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## dunbarhamlin (1 Jun 2008)

Hahaha experimentation and innovation is ALWAYS good - and you can't reasonably expect a parent to keep quiet about how wonderful his kids are :lol: 

'Twas indeed a good day (though not sure we left many toys for the folks on Sunday, least if they wanted Cullen, Jeske, LV... oops, mustn't forget Auriou or um, may be as well I'm already single again)

Was pleased to see Chris Vesper's goodies over here too.

(and next time I'm going to wear a T with UKW/otherplace/WoodNet ID on't - could be a good idea - hey, could just use cafepress etc to get one knocked up)

Cheers
Steve Hamlin


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## Nick Gibbs (1 Jun 2008)

I'd like to add my congrats to Mike and his crew for putting on a great event at West Dean. They all work really hard spreading the woodworking word, and do so with a smile on their faces. I had a fantastic time meeting the demonstrators and lots of new and familiar readers. Thanks to everyone who came up to say hello. Long may shows like this last. See you all at Westonbirt.

Nick


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## wizer (1 Jun 2008)

Well what a lovely day. After my last comment, MarkW invited me along for the drive this morning. Thoroughly enjoyed myself. Better than any power tool show I have attended. Great to meet Philly and get a play with his planes. Lots of other faces to names. The highlight for me was Mr Brian Boggs. I only wished I'd seen his demos from the previous days on spokeshaves. Tho, we did have the privilege of seeing him finish the chair he was making.






Interesting to see a master craftsman working bare footed 






We watched him weave the seat out of Hickory Bark. This stuff is really interesting. It's just like lengths of leather. Very pliable, workable stuff. The aroma is lovely too.






I just couldn't get a good enough picture to do the finished article justice. I'm totaly in awe of his work. Interesting to hear that he is holding a course this coming week with a star studded list of attendees. Including Sir Charlesworth, Michel Auriou, James Mursell and our very own Phil Carpenter (Good Surname or What)

Definitely going to look out for his next UK course.

Here is a close up of the Hickory Bark. 






Many thanks to Mike Hancock for putting on such a fantastic event. Here's to next year.


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## MooreToolsPlease (1 Jun 2008)

Looks like a great show.
If it is on next year I will make sure to drop by.
Some fantastic names were there!


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## jonbikebod (2 Jun 2008)

It was an excellent show. Very condensed in a way, just the god bits without all the hippy beads etc. I wish I had known I was in such celebrated company but I only recognised Bugbear from the forum. Perhaps we should all have forum hats or something.
Jon.


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

that's a shame Jon, what day was you there?


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## Nick Gibbs (2 Jun 2008)

jonbikebod":ai4orrlv said:


> Perhaps we should all have forum hats or something.
> Jon.



That's a great idea. Or badges. I think the Forum does a great job, and the anonymity is the only part of it I find a bit awkward. I'd love to be able to thank some of our supporters at shows, but don't who's who! 

Nick


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

If more members would let Chas have a photo for the Rogues gallery, it would make recognition easier.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## gidon (2 Jun 2008)

I'm gutted I wasn't able to make this - it looks great fun.
Thanks for the pics.
Cheers
Gidon


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## OPJ (2 Jun 2008)

Looks like a great day out and quite different to the Yandles show many of us went to in April. I'd like to think I might be able to get there next year.  

I'm looking forward to the one at the Westonbirt Arboretum, having not been before. Nick, I'll come and say hello to you this time, I promise! :wink:


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## jonbikebod (2 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":1hvzafmg said:


> that's a shame Jon, what day was you there?



I was there on Saturday morning when the first set of photos were taken. I had the feeling many of the attendees were likely to be members but it was only Bugbears face I remembered from the gallery. I have submitted my mug for the gallery but it hasn't appeared yet.
Jon.


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## Mike Hancock (2 Jun 2008)

Just a quick thank you from a knackered Classic Hand Tools team to everyone who were able to support this event. Lots of friendly constructive and welcome ideas on how to tweak and improve any future events so that the visitor's enjoyment is further enhanced. 
I'd love the forum folk to have some ID as it is always nice to put a face to a name (actually thinking about that statement for a moment that's not always true) maybe Waka wigs, no that wouldn't work..how about Philly wigs.
We'll try and put on a good show for you at Westonbirt. Sadly having "booked" the Great Oak Hall in 2006, and re-confirmed the booking at last years event I have been advised that we cannot now use this at all this year which has scuppered my plans to put the masterclasses in there. Things happen despite of other peoples efforts rather than because of them sometimes! Enough said!
But to sign off with a few snippets..Rob Cosman will be running 4 hour teaching seminars at this years show, genius planemaker Bill Carter will be there (Sunday only) with young Mr Sauer returning to improve his soccer skills, Philly will be showing them both how it should be done properly plus a certain Mr Charlesworth, a guitar maker, an Italian woodturning school, The Austrian woodcarving school, shingle making, oak beam dressing, the making of "The Westonbirt Windsor" and hopefully some boatbuilding to add to the usual fun with our "regulars" - Mark Hancock, John Lloyd, Nick Gibbs, Chris Pye, Mick Hudson & James Mursell...The masterclasses will run as last year (any of you guys fancy doing a turn?) and we hope you'll help make this the best event of its kind in Europe (I believe it can be).
Back to West Dean, many thanks to Rosemary Marley and Allison Baxter from the college who helped me set it up. Yes CHT would like to do another event at West Dean next year with a slightly expanded format - but lets let the dust settle on this first. We do want to do one "up north" possibly Edinburgh so any possible suggestions for a venue would be welcome (250 square metre floor space, food, toilets, good parking, something for the other half to do, affordable, good local beer and an interpreter for Deneb Pulchalski etc. required).
Michel AURIOU is the correct spelling. Auriou Toolworks hope to start production this autumn.
Who ever bought the Chris Vesper made Red Gum Oak bevel - can he/she give me a call please - we goofed up big time on this and I need you to dig me out of the pooh if you can.
THANKS, Mike & the knackered crew


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Thanks Mike, I would be interested to hear more info on Westonbirt. The event last for a week, is that right? Which days are the activities you mentioned above happening? I'm thinking about coming but not sure which day to aim for. 

Perhaps there should be a new Westonbirt Thread?


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## woodbloke (2 Jun 2008)

Apart from all the regulars (almost said 'old lags' :lol: ) who I know, I'm coming to the rapid conclusion that _some_ sort of ID is needed for these sort of events as I'm sure that there were folk there on Saturday who are UKW members that I missed...what about a Pythonesque 'silly walk' or maybe a secret sign (square and compasses...oops, could get meself into trouble here 8-[ ) Seriously, just a sticky label on a shirt with your forum name would do - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

woodbloke":znrdrusd said:


> Seriously, just a sticky label on a shirt with your forum name would do



Excellent idea - and that's something we could each do ourselves and would require no organisation.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## paulm (2 Jun 2008)

Or there are places like this that make up badges 

http://www.badges4you.co.uk/badgemaker.shtml

Not as cheap as I thought they might be though so could be prohibitive to get a run of say 50 done, might be best with stick on handwritten labels after all !

Do like the wooden ones though further down on that site.

Cheers, Paul.


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

Yes, a roll of sticky labels and a felt tip pen by the entrance would be cheaper :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## NeilO (2 Jun 2008)

I`ve tried several times to get to one of these great shows, but God seems to think otherwise....

last Easter tried Yandles ( first time visit very excited) but didnt make it the jallopy broke down , tried again for the Autumn venue to find I was working that weekend, tried for Yandles again this Easter , but alas scuppered by family commitments and west Dean show was kicked into touch because Ive been advised not to drive ( temporarily , I hope)due to medical reasons.....


But if it wasnt for bad luck, I wouldnt have any...... :lol:

if the Westonbirt show is within the next couple of weeks on bended knee, If anyone in the locale, or willing to make a detour ( petrol split without question) is going to the Westonbirt show.......Please, please, please.....


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## Waka (2 Jun 2008)

Could have something like this, very low profile.


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## woodbloke (2 Jun 2008)

NeilO wrote:


> if the Westonbirt show is within the next couple of weeks


Neil - Westonbirt is in the third week in August if memory serves...plenty of time to do little bit of _'forward planning' _:wink: - Rob


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## paulm (2 Jun 2008)

How about here

http://www.badgeplanet.co.uk/designyourown.asp?

Bit more reasonable only £15 for 50, if we could get the forum logo done .....

Apologies if OT, should maybe move elsewhere onto a new thread ?

Cheers, Paul.


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## NeilO (2 Jun 2008)

thanks Rob, 
hopefully the quack will have let me start driving again by then....


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

Waka":9igx3cd2 said:


> Could have something like this, very low profile.



Typically Waka - always understated :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul

PS Like the new avatar 8)


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## woodbloke (2 Jun 2008)

Paul Chapman":bxfai29x said:


> Waka":bxfai29x said:
> 
> 
> > Could have something like this, very low profile.
> ...


Paul - I thought there'd at _least_ be an embossed pic of a Kon**% S plane on the front, Waka must be slipping :lol: - Rob


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## Chris Knight (2 Jun 2008)

Rob,

I think there are five photos on the back!


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

I'm sure it's only a matter of time :wink:


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## Shultzy (2 Jun 2008)

Here's a thought re ID
- go to home page 
- right click on "UK Workshop" in top right hand corner 
- select "copy image" 
- paste into "Word" or similar
- print out on photo paper (or plain)
- double sided tape on back
- stick on shirt, etc.


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## newt (2 Jun 2008)

You could if you are keen have your forum name tattooed on your forehead and therefore you would always be recognized. labels are a good idea also.


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## Philly (2 Jun 2008)

Gents
I'd be happy to bring along a load of pre-printed sticky labels with the UK Workshop logo on for Westonbirt if desired. Just pop on by my bench and pick one up.
Hope this helps
Philly


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## Escudo (2 Jun 2008)

Waka, I hope you throw the iron on that shirt before wearing it.


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## Waka (2 Jun 2008)

Escudo":37z4zb6t said:


> Waka, I hope you throw the iron on that shirt before wearing it.



Actually there are two shirts like this, Philly forgot to mention he has one as well, we wore them when we went to a bash at Steve's up North, oh sorry in the Midlands.


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## Gower (2 Jun 2008)

Is this the Westonbirt event mentioned by everyone? It would be great to meet up with forum members and put faces to names. Copied the item below from Westonbirts web site. Hope it's useful.
Cheers,
Gower

Signature Events at Westonbirt Arboretum 2008


Festival of The Tree 2008
Monday 18 to Monday 25 August 10am - 4pm

to fullsize version of image
A week of exciting events and activities that celebrates the wonderful world of trees and their uses. Giant Tree Sculpture event ‘Sculptree’ throughout the week. From Friday 22nd to Monday 25th a craft event ‘Exhibitree’ (over 150 exhibitors) with demonstrations and lots of hand crafted artisan products to buy including jewellery, bonsai trees, furniture and food. Lots of exciting things for children too including wand making, traditional rides and the William Woodworm trail.

Sculptree - Mon 18 to Mon 25 August. Family Tree - Mon 18 to Mon 25 August. Exhibitree - Fri 22 to Mon 25 August

Admission: Adult £8, Concession £7, Child £3.


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

That's the one Gower


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## Mr Ed (2 Jun 2008)

Well I spent 7 hours in the car yesterday and drove 400 miles to make my visit to West Dean and it was well worth it. Thanks to Mike, Alex and everyone else for organising an excellent event.

Slightly repeating what others have said, but I thought Garrett Hacks scratch stock was a nice simple idea (which I will be cribbing shortly)






Brian Boggs was a pleasure to watch, it says a lot about his level of craftsmanship to work so fluidly with a crowd of people watching his every move.





Oh, and it would appear that some Blue Spruce paring chisels and a beautiful little Chris Vesper double square followed me home...





Thats all the ingredients I need for a good day out!

Cheers, Ed.


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## Mike Hancock (2 Jun 2008)

An alternative promo might read...Visit Europe's leading celebration of all things wood with dozens of fascinating stands including The International Hand Tool Marquee, The British Woodcarvers Association, Bonsai, The Toymakers Guild, Woodturning, Chairmaking, Boatbuilding & Guitar Making plus Westonbirt timber for sale. Free Masterclasses by Internationally renowned demonstrators, Information and advice on trees, woodland management & woodworking courses . Thousands of quality products and hand tools for sale. 

More flesh will be added to the bones in due course including details of Rob Cosmans dovetailing seminars, the masterclasses etc..

Thanks, Mike


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Ed you must have been standing next to me mate.

Mike, consider my hand in the air for info on anything Cosman (or Boggs if he can be coaxed back).


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## Philly (2 Jun 2008)

Righto - brain has finally come back on-line. And my voice has returned :wink: 

The event was fantastic - so nice to see so many forum members in one place! And thanks to everyone who came by for a chat and to make some shavings  
Some great demonstrators at work and a huge amount of tool porn available to play with - the glass display cabinets will need a lot of cleaning to remove all that drool :wink: 
I took a few photo's - to save Charley some bandwidth I've put them here!
Many thanks again to Mike and the Team for arranging and running such a smooth show - and for letting me loose in the corner.
Apologies to everyone who's photo I missed - next time! See you all at Westonbirt,
Philly


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

EdSutton":scj2fjkr said:


> I thought Garrett Hacks scratch stock was a nice simple idea (which I will be cribbing shortly)



Thanks, Ed, for posting that close-up of Garrett Hack's scratch stock - it was a great design and so simple. I was trying to remember what it was like and now have a picture  Will probably pinch the idea as well.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (3 Jun 2008)

Ditto on the scratch stock - thought it was a great idea. Same principle as machinery working better once I've taken out the spare nuts and bolts I suppose (oops, maybe not quite the same - this is simplicity by design, not by de fault of da fixer )

And expect you'll enjoy the square, Ed - I've got blinkers when I need a small square now - that's the only one I look for.
(I'm sure Chris Vesper (good fellow) would appreciate feedback on it too)

Cheers
Steve


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## Benchwayze (3 Jun 2008)

Feeling a bit low myself having had to miss the show and it's great to see you all had a good time. Thanks for the input guys and I will hopefully see you at Westonbirt or Stoneleigh. 

Regards

John 

.


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## bjm (3 Jun 2008)

Hi Neil, I've sent you a PM

Brian


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## Vormulac (3 Jun 2008)

Sounds like a terrific bash, gutted to have missed it. I wonder if I can convince the boss that our holiday this year should be Westonbirt?


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## Benchwayze (3 Jun 2008)

Waka":2mwem2p2 said:


> Escudo":2mwem2p2 said:
> 
> 
> > Waka, I hope you throw the iron on that shirt before wearing it.
> ...



Yes, I suppose the Midlands is 'Oop North to Dorsetonians (Is that the right term Waka?) 

To the Geordies and the Yorkies and so on, the Midlands is down South. 

We just can't win 'ere!  

I spent my 'funnymoon' in Weymouth btw. What else could I afford in 196*! At least the Black Dog sold some good medicine. 

Cheers

John 
ccasion5:


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## bugbear (3 Jun 2008)

Mike Hancock":3lto5vy8 said:


> Just a quick thank you from a knackered Classic Hand Tools team to everyone who were able to support this event. Lots of friendly constructive and welcome ideas on how to tweak and improve any future events so that the visitor's enjoyment is further enhanced.



Looks like everyone else got their photos up before me!

The event was GREAT. I was initially surprised by the small scale, but then you realise that of the people you actually want to see at a bigger event, they were all there! All wheat, and no chaff.

I swapped some ideas with Philly - more anon, over on the handtools forum.

The Venue was beautiful; here's a shot from the bridge leading to the car park...






Here are the (often ignored) Clifton tools; apparently Clifton are having to fight a rumour/myth that their planes aren't flat; to this end they had a grade A Moore and Wright straight edge and a grade AA(!!) granite surface plate, so you could check your purchase.

It's sad that such a (false, AFAIK) rumour has started.

Clifton were also showing a first-run #077 bull nose shoulder plane (bottom of shot)






On a more positive note, here's Deneb demonstrating (or at least attempt to demonstrate) to DC and Philly that sharpening a Lie-Nielsen plane float is doable:






And here's Garrett Hack setting a record for smallest workpiece ever (going into the prepared groove).






BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (3 Jun 2008)

bugbear":u4afdp5e said:


> Here are the (often ignored) Clifton tools; apparently Clifton are having to fight a rumour/myth that their planes aren't flat; to this end they had a grade A Moore and Wright straight edge and a grade AA(!!) granite surface plate, so you could check your purchase.
> 
> It's sad that such a (false, AFAIK) rumour has started.
> 
> Clifton were also showing a first-run #077 bull nose shoulder plane (bottom of shot)



Probably just as false as the idea some people have that Clifton plane bodies are more likely to break than those of their competitors. I have a copy of the DVD showing the drop test Clifton did. They took #5 and #7 plane bodies and dropped them 20 feet onto a concrete floor and they came to no harm at all. Very impressive 8) 

They remain my bench planes of choice.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (3 Jun 2008)

Paul Chapman":x4e18fw6 said:


> Probably just as false as the idea some people have that Clifton plane bodies are more likely to break than those of their competitors. I have a copy of the DVD showing the drop test Clifton did. They took #5 and #7 plane bodies and dropped them 20 feet onto a concrete floor and they came to no harm at all. Very impressive 8)
> 
> They remain my bench planes of choice.
> 
> ...


Hear, hear!
Suspect that bench shot reminds you of home too 

(Now that's a vid I'd like to see)

Cheers
Steve


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## Paul Chapman (3 Jun 2008)

dunbarhamlin":p71yhb7w said:


> Suspect that bench shot reminds you of home too



:-$ :-$ :-$ :lol:


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## Chris Knight (3 Jun 2008)

For those of you planning to go to Westonbirt, don't forget to also visit Betty Norbury's show in Cheltenham, http://www.celebrationofcraftsmanship.com/

This is usually a great show and makes a super two day visit. My better half always enjoys this trip too so no spousal excuses needed!


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## Aled Dafis (3 Jun 2008)

Hi all, I wasn't sure if i'd post this here, or start a new thread on the hand tools page, please advise if you think its in the wrong place.

Is it just me, or are more and more people on here turning to Clifton planes?

I recently purchased my second Clifton bench plane (#5 1/2, my first being a #3) and find them to be excellent, both in form and function.

I have a number of planes by Veritas (Low angle Jack and Smoother) and Lie-Nielsen (#60 1/2 adjustable mouth block plane and the #103 block plane in bronze) as well as the pair of Cliftons, and although they all perform very well indeed, I find that it's the Cliftons that I almost always pick up first.

What I really like about the Clifton planes is that I find the traditional O1 irons far easier to hone than the A2 steel in my other "high end" planes. The O1 irons can be quickly licked into shape whilst in the middle of a job, using only my Norton 8000 grit waterstone, whereas the A1 irons always need to be taken back to a wire edge on the diamond stone before honing on the Norton - a process that takes quite a bit longer and can upset your rhythm. This ease of sharpening also means that I sharpen more often, and therefore my edges are better for it. 

I have also heard the rumours that the sheffield planes have flatness issues, but I've found them just as accurate as my Veritas bench planes - the LN block planes are a bit short to compare. Maybe Tony could pop one on his CMM for us to compare - although I feel that this may be a bit of an overkill for a tool used to plane such an unstable material as wood.

Go on try a Clifton, you'll not be dissapointed.

I'll be writing a short write up on my #5 1/2 soon so keep an eye out.

Regards

Aled

P.S. I have no ties with Clifton or Clico Tooling other than being a happy customer (as some of you might have guessed by now)


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2008)

Aled Dafis":3pfk01og said:


> I have also heard the rumours that the sheffield planes have flatness issues



Does anyone know where the hell this (false) rumour started?

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2008)

bugbear":2tepfadd said:


> Aled Dafis":2tepfadd said:
> 
> 
> > I have also heard the rumours that the sheffield planes have flatness issues
> ...



Dunno, I have four Cliftons and they are all flat.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (4 Jun 2008)

______


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2008)

MDF_HAKA":jdqc9uaw said:


> bugbear":jdqc9uaw said:
> 
> 
> > Aled Dafis":jdqc9uaw said:
> ...



Not everything in that piece by Chris Schwarz is correct. He says "_The Cliftons are made using the same grey iron used in Bailey-style planes, and the tools can crack from a nasty fall from bench height_". How Clifton produce their plane bodies is quite different from the way Stanley and Record used to do it. I have a copy of the DVD showing the drop test Clifton did on #5 and #7 bodies, where they dropped them 20ft onto a concrete floor and they didn't break.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (4 Jun 2008)

_______


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## PaulO (4 Jun 2008)

bugbear":18uevc66 said:


> Does anyone know where the hell this (false) rumour started?
> 
> BugBear



You could check your back catalogue of F&C for Clifton reviews. (circa 2002/3 ish if memory serves, which it often doesn't)

I won't mention any names and I am working from memory. The reviewer found the test sample wasn't flat and had a several thou bump behind the mouth. The reviewer discussed this with someone at Clifton, who said that it didn't matter. The reviewer said that it did matter, and I agree. 

Don't know if the person at Clifton who said that is still there, but from recent comments it would seem that current production doesn't suffer from such problems.

More recently in issue 137 (feb 08 ) of F&C there was a visit to the Clico factory. In that article it is said that the flatness is tested with a 1.5 thou feeler gauge on a surface plate, any sole that allows the feeler gauge to pass is rejected. If there is a 1.5 thou bump behind the mouth, you will not be able to take a shaving finer than 1.5 thou, which is thicker than the fine shavings I take. Note that I am not suggesting that the current manufacture does produce planes with a 1.5 thou bump.

I have mostly L-N planes and all of them have benefited from some sole flattening, blade flattening and work around the mouth/ chip breaker. At this price point (LV, L-N, Clifton) I think it is unreasonable to expect anything else. Even a Holtey plane won't take a nice fine shaving if your sharpening skills aren't up to scratch.

It also depends on your expectations, I went to my first L-N jack from an unmodified modern Stanley. It was a revelation (as I'm sure a Clifton would be). I then went on DCs course on tool tuning. I was worried that my L-N jack wouldn't benefit. I needn't have worried, there was plenty to do, and the improvement was astonishing. Although some of that improvement was no doubt due to my improved sharpening skills.


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2008)

Sounds like the spec of Clifton is fine, and the QC "variable"

BugBear


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## PaulO (4 Jun 2008)

bugbear":1i971axw said:


> Sounds like the spec of Clifton is fine, and the QC "variable"



I think all you can deduce from my post is that at the time of the first F&C review the QC *was* variable. Anecdotal evidence on here suggests that any problems have now been ironed out.


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## Aled Dafis (4 Jun 2008)

Gents

It took me a fair bit of head scratching, but I finally remembered reading this on David Charlesworth's web page where he talks about his tool tuning short course.

"Modern Stanley & Record planes are poorly made and though we can improve them radically, older ones are preferable. Lie-Nielsen planes require little work, Clifton a good deal more."

I believe that this was written a while ago, as he talks about using Japanese chisels, where I believe that he now uses LN chisels extensively if not exclusively.

Maybe David could comment, as he pops in to this forum from time to time.

Regards

Aled


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## Philly (4 Jun 2008)

Aled
David is away on Brian Boggs chairmaking course this week.
Philly


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## Aled Dafis (4 Jun 2008)

Lucky pipper!!!


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## Jake (4 Jun 2008)

I don't think DC could claim to be entirely impartial when it comes to LN (which isn't to say he isn't entirely right)


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## Aled Dafis (4 Jun 2008)

Mmm...

Yes I also considered that, but forgot to include it as a caveat in my post.

Aled


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## bugbear (5 Jun 2008)

Philly":2o7ttzds said:


> Aled
> David is away on Brian Boggs chairmaking course this week.
> Philly



That's interesting; DC's approach normally involves as much measurement and jigging as possible, and Brian Boggs... doesn't

BugBear


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## bugbear (5 Jun 2008)

It's taken a while to get this done, but here's an unusual picture from West Dean... click to make bigger.





BugBear


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## wizer (5 Jun 2008)

That's very well done BB. Nice stitching. What day was it taken? Are the people at Philly's stand forum members?


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## bugbear (5 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":7asg4tnc said:


> That's very well done BB. Nice stitching.



Hmm. Familiar with the term "stitching" are we? Suspicious. Anyway, that was Hugin + Enblend for a total software expenditure of zero. All taken with a 36 mm lens, 25 shots in all - lots of overlap to allow for people moving.



> What day was it taken?



Exif on the first shot says 2008:06:01 11:27:03



> Are the people at Philly's stand forum members?



I don't know; perhaps reference to the rogues gallery would tell.

BugBear


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## Philly (5 Jun 2008)

Wizer
I think that's Gary Wayne and his Missus, with Nick Gibbs setting up a tripod.
Great Pic, BB!
Philly


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## wizer (5 Jun 2008)

Cheers Philly. I thought I recognised the face


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## Mr Ed (5 Jun 2008)

Nice Picture.

You got me (or the back of me anyway) talking to Michael Huntley at the left hand side of the shot.

Ed


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## Harbo (5 Jun 2008)

That's strange I was there from about 10:30 - I thought DC did not arrive until the afternoon?
Is your camera set for GMT?

Rod


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## Paul Chapman (5 Jun 2008)

Great picture, BB =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## WellsWood (5 Jun 2008)

bugbear":3ez7fd12 said:


> Hmm. Familiar with the term "stitching" are we?



Yeah, just a bit :twisted:


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## PaulO (5 Jun 2008)

If Mike Hancock is still looking for the person that bought the Chris Vesper made Red Gum Oak bevel, I think it is the chap in the red shirt by the payment booth. I paid form my items just before him. 

Hancock Jr. made a quip about the guy needing to check the price with his wife, to which he replied that she was going to write the cheque.


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## bugbear (6 Jun 2008)

Harbo":1j8nxiex said:


> That's strange I was there from about 10:30 - I thought DC did not arrive until the afternoon?
> Is your camera set for GMT?
> 
> Rod



The date is the Sunday (day 2)

BugBear


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## Harbo (6 Jun 2008)

Sorry Bugbear - did not check the date especially as I saw you on Saturday.

Did not realise you spent 2 days there!!

Rod


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## Good Surname or what ? (13 Jun 2008)

Great day as everyone has said before. I stayed on for the Brian Boggs course and will post pictures to this new thread.

PS: Nice to meet WiZer and MarkW. Hope the finger recovers soon WiZer.


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