# New toy...this could become an expensive hobby!



## jimi43 (5 Jan 2013)

Astronomy!

Always wanted to get into it...and fully intend to do so with a very careful and hopefully not wasteful approach.

So...yesterday I joined an astronomy forum and today I picked this little baby up secondhand:







Lots of knobs...buttons...electronics and whizzy bits....






Ok...ok...those of you in the know will probably say..."but Jim! It ain't got no scope on it!"....and they'd be correct.

This is what I mean by "carefully"....since this lump of electronic gizmos set me back nearly £400....I can now see why they call it astronomy!! :mrgreen: 

It's the astronomic price of the hobby!

So...once I get the tube...and the camera mount...and the battery thingy...and the dome (no I don't intend to stand in a bleedin' field in the winter!)....I think this little hobby might just prove slightly more expensive than the woodie one!

We shall see!!

Any other stargazers out there in woody land?

Jim

PS...there is one benefit from this hobby. Now that I've got this gadget...at least I know which way is north!!! :mrgreen:


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## devonwoody (5 Jan 2013)

Let us know if you find any woodworkers up there!


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## Sawyer (5 Jan 2013)

Welcome to the best light show in existence, Jim! I have a TAL 6" reflector and the luxury of very dark skies above me.

RIP Sir Patrick Moore.


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## nev (5 Jan 2013)

so is all that gubbins 'just' to help you point it in the right direction?


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## woodshavings (5 Jan 2013)

jimi43":2xaqn4n8 said:


> ...and the dome (no I don't intend to stand in a bleedin' field in the winter!).



I look forward to the WIP pictures of your dome construction ....  
John


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## No skills (5 Jan 2013)

How do you find the space to keep all this stuff?


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## UTMonkey (5 Jan 2013)

I have a 12" Dobsonian flextube. Its the auto one, just point it at something and it will track it.

It was when the electrics broke that got me started in woodworking, one of my goals is to make my own scope from wood.

Clear skies

Mark


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## Dangermouse (5 Jan 2013)

MY GOD Jim, think of all the planes you could have bought for that amount of money !!!!!! (hammer) :shock: :shock:


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## Dangermouse (5 Jan 2013)

Oh and couldnt resist,

When you find it, remember, " its life Jim, but not as we know it " :wink: :lol:


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## jimi43 (6 Jan 2013)

I'm so glad I posted this! I have had a good laugh after getting home from work just now! (practising for late nights!)

DW...the greatest Woodworker of all is up there...you know this don't you! :mrgreen: 

Sawyer...I live in a fairly dark part of Kent so I think I might get at least some good images...will keep you posted! :wink: 

Nev...yes...my sense of direction is dreadful so having something which says "NORTH" on it is a great help....otherwise it's back to trees and moss! :mrgreen: 

John....you know me too well! I started looking at the tops of Sky Pods at work tonight as I'm damned if I'm going to fork out two grand on a plastic bubble! Then I drifted into geodetic domes....out of wood...and Lancaster bombers...and...you know how tangential life can be!  

No Skills...I have a VERY understanding wife! The tripod is still in the lounge at the moment awaiting the optical bit! 8) 



> I have a 12" Dobsonian flextube.



Now you're just boasting Mark!!! :mrgreen: Seriously though...I did think about getting a Dob (notice how he drifts smoothly into the lingo! 8) )......but in the end I chickened out and bought a refractor...less time to fiddle about, more to watch the skies eh!?

DW...you don't know how much I thought that too! It's criminal it really is! And even more worrying is the distraction! Mind you if I DO make the dome out of wood...I think this will mean more time in the shop...and I still have to make the heated chair for ALFIE!! (Now to be called ALFIE CENTURI...when in astrodog mode!) :mrgreen: 

I have the scope thingy coming this weeks...something called a Skywatcher Evostar 100ED DS-Pro or some such gobbledegook....

Apparently I can see moons and deep space objects without actually Hubbling about in space...we shall see!

More on that later when it arrives!

Cheers

Jim


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## RogerS (6 Jan 2013)

Rather ironic tale. We live on the West side of the Malverns. Very dark countryside, the night sky is remarkably free from light pollution and because the airflow is lamina, the air is good for looking through. Which is why an astronomer bought the house across the valley from us. Lots of seriously BIG telescopes..seen some of his photos of far galaxies...pretty amazing. He also consults on light pollution.

Only...only...he refurb'd his house and ending up sticking very bright but incredibly energy-efficient LEDs bulbs in all his rooms. So he tends to leave them on. All the time. Like looking at bloody Blackpool illuminations now when previously we looked out on dark.

And 'im being a light pollution consultant an' all. Not something to go round and see him about...but just hoping to bump into him when I'll mention it in a jokey sort of way.


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## bugbear (6 Jan 2013)

jimi43":2lxx2w3w said:


> Seriously though...I did think about getting a Dob (notice how he drifts smoothly into the lingo! 8) )......but in the end I chickened out and bought a refractor...less time to fiddle about, more to watch the skies eh!?



In general, dobs are the serious sky watcher's tool of choice (more light per buck, but you have to do your own navigating), but EQ mounts are better for astrophotography (which I suspect you'll want to try)

BugBear


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## Webby (6 Jan 2013)

Nice piece of kit  

When you do get the glass on top of it ...do me a favour  

look at the Moon and tell me if you see any flags and debris up there :lol: you know where to look :wink: 

that will settle it at last :wink:


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## devonwoody (6 Jan 2013)

Webby":9pmpev2h said:


> Nice piece of kit
> 
> When you do get the glass on top of it ...do me a favour
> 
> ...




I expect the Russians or Chinese have taken them away :wink:


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## Dangermouse (6 Jan 2013)

One word of warning, if you see little green men ( or women) waving back at you from up there, you've been out in the cold toooooo long....... or you've been out in the cold toooooo long and had to much of something to keep you warm. :roll:


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## Jensmith (6 Jan 2013)

I had a 4" Tal which is still living at my parents house. Not used it for quite a few years now but used to love seeing the planets. I was surprised how small they all were but seeing Saturn and it's rings for the first time is something else, especially if you get them when they're at a nice angle so you can see them all.
It's also great seeing the moons of Jupiter and Saturn. You do have to continually track them though as they move very fast across the eyepiece. One thing I could never find was the Andromeda Galaxy. WOuld have liked to see that. Not very dark around where we live. Too much light pollution.


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## Sawyer (7 Jan 2013)

Once you know where to look, the Andromeda Galaxy is visible to naked eye - far easier to find than with a telescope: but once you know exactly where to point your 'scope, a treat awaits you! Light pollution is a problem, but I've been able to pick it up from Northampton. It's quite an experience to see it for the first time and ponder on the enormity of the universe. Hope this helps:
http://www.wikihow.com/Find-the-Andromeda-Galaxy


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## Jensmith (7 Jan 2013)

Thanks Sawyer


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## Harbo (7 Jan 2013)

I have an iPhone App "Pocket Universe" which you can use to locate items.
Don't know how highly these are rated in Astronomical circles though?

Rod


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## bugbear (7 Jan 2013)

Sawyer":3h2m7x42 said:


> Once you know where to look, the Andromeda Galaxy is visible to naked eye - far easier to find than with a telescope: but once you know exactly where to point your 'scope, a treat awaits you! Light pollution is a problem, but I've been able to pick it up from Northampton. It's quite an experience to see it for the first time and ponder on the enormity of the universe. Hope this helps:
> http://www.wikihow.com/Find-the-Andromeda-Galaxy



There's a famous and excellent book called "Turn left At Orion" about finding objects in the sky by "star hopping" as opposed to using coordindates.

It's applicable to small (4" or less) telescopes and binoculars.

BugBear


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## Paul.J (7 Jan 2013)

Hi Jim.
I am also new to this hobby and am finding the weather the worse part,gets very frustrating when you wanna get out but are been stopped by all this cloud we are having.
But here is a 30 sec single frame shot i took in my back garden here in Brum,of M31, the Andromeda Galaxy.
This was alss my second time of using the set up,as the weathers been so poor.
Also managed to get some nice shots of Orion Saturday night as it cleared for an hour or two,but they were just the camera on a tripod.


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## Eric The Viking (7 Jan 2013)

We went to Galloway a couple of years ago on holiday. Youngest daughter took a school friend with her - both into boy bands, odd clothing etc., so being out of even mobile 'phone coverage didn't go down too well. They consoled each other, spent hours doing make-up in their rooms and regarded our own increasing relaxation as slight derangement.

For most of the time it was overcast and rainy, but near the end of the fortnight the skies finally cleared. Around 11pm the wife and I persuaded them to put on wellies and venture out into the cottage's garden. Much grumbling and fuss, especially when we just stood around for a few minutes apparently doing nothing. Then their eyes got used to the light levels, and they began to see the Milky Way. 

I realised that neither had *ever* seen it before (we live in a city). They were enthralled. 

I'm not much good, but I picked out a few things to look at (the Pleiades and some of the lesser constellations that I could remember). I also had my 300 f4 on a tripod, so they could see some things more easily. 

Now, I think it's the thing my daughter most remembers from that holiday. Brilliant, literally.

E.

PS: I watched what I think was Patrick Moore's last Sky At Night yesterday evening. I know he did less of recent years, but it really is the end of an era. I do hope the BBC keeps it going, not least in Patrick's memory. It's been a monthly TV 'fixture' for many years here, and it would be like losing (another) old friend if the series itself goes too. Personally, I think he was a far greater presenter than Attenborough has ever been, and probably inspired far more youngsters to do science, too -- a true polymath. Television will be a much duller thing without him. 

RIP, Patrick. You are already missed.


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## nev (7 Jan 2013)

some other galaxies to keep an eye out for...

The Bubble galaxy - can be seen on winter evenings just to the left of 'The Wife'.





The Ford galaxy - most visible from the Dagenham area





and not forgetting the most common ...
Samsung galaxy - whilst looking towards the north star from any major city centre the Samsung Galaxy can be seen by looking down and watching the local pickpocket hightailing it down the road.








:mrgreen:


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## Benchwayze (7 Jan 2013)

jimi43":272099rn said:


> Astronomy!
> 
> Always wanted to get into it...and fully intend to do so with a very careful and hopefully not wasteful approach.
> 
> ...



Jimi!

Yes... Me sir. 

I see at last! Astronomy is 'looking up'. 

You will soon learn of the delights of light pollution, which is why I am an armchair (PC) astronomer these days. :wink:

I have a 6" almost finished, Newtonian mirror, polished to about f10. It needs parabolisong. 
If you know what that means anyone, then you should be capable of finishing it. And it's here complete with it's pitch-lap and grinding tool.


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## Benchwayze (7 Jan 2013)

Paul.J":2ppfeaac said:


> Hi Jim.
> I am also new to this hobby and am finding the weather the worse part,gets very frustrating when you wanna get out but are been stopped by all this cloud we are having.
> But here is a 30 sec single frame shot i took in my back garden here in Brum,of M31, the Andromeda Galaxy.
> This was alss my second time of using the set up,as the weathers been so poor.
> Also managed to get some nice shots of Orion Saturday night as it cleared for an hour or two,but they were just the camera on a tripod.



Get yourself up on the Barr Beacon Paul. 360 degree vision, and a lot less light pollution. 
You have to walk to the top mind, as they close the gates to traffic after dark.


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## Paul.J (8 Jan 2013)

Benchwayze":85qsdi0z said:


> Paul.J":85qsdi0z said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Jim.
> ...


Cheers John.
I have heared that you can have problems with kids up the Beacon unless there is one of the groups events on,but we have two good safe darkish sites that we can just park the car up and gaze right by the car,which is ideal with the amount of kit we have??


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## Wood Monkey (8 Jan 2013)

Some years ago I took part in a transatlantic yacht race. By day I couldn't believe the range of sea life that came to visit, but things got really amazing at night. The dark, dark skies in the middle of the Atlantic ocean opened up a previously unseen world. You could track satellites with the naked eye, but my favourite past time was lying on the deck (when off watch of course) and looking up at the sky with a 10x50 pair of bins. Doesn't sound like much compared to some of the kit mentioned in this thread, but you had to see it to believe it.

I now have a decent pair of binoculars with image stabilisation and ever in the local polluted skies I never cease to be amazed at what you can see.

You are in for a real treat Jim. Enjoy.


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## jimi43 (8 Jan 2013)

Hey Nev...funny you should post that picture of the Galaxy SIII....I just downloaded the App...Skeye....really good.

It uses the motion detectors...magnetsomethings and GPS to show you where everything is. You run it and hold it up to a clear sky and it puts a picture of that exact region of sky on the phone and names the visible stars!! Pretty neat stuff.

I must remember to turn left at Orion though eh BB!?

Ok...the glass arrived today...in fact two sets of glass...and a power pack so nearly ready to go...






ASTRODOG and me put it together while Annie was at work...this was necessary owing to the complete use of the floor which I'm sure she will appreciate when she returns home later!






I don't think we'll get away with it because all the boxes which are HUGE are in the kitchen...at the moment of course!  

This is the refractor..






The reflector is on the floor...a modified Mak...(apparently!)






All I have to do now is line it all up but the power pack takes a minimum of 14 hours to charge first time....






So I guess I will have to wait another night...always assuming it eventually stops raining!

More later!

Jim


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## bugbear (8 Jan 2013)

Wood Monkey":13e9ly0a said:


> Some years ago I took part in a transatlantic yacht race. By day I couldn't believe the range of sea life that came to visit, but things got really amazing at night. The dark, dark skies in the middle of the Atlantic ocean opened up a previously unseen world. You could track satellites with the naked eye, but my favourite past time was lying on the deck (when off watch of course) and looking up at the sky with a 10x50 pair of bins. Doesn't sound like much compared to some of the kit mentioned in this thread, but you had to see it to believe it.
> 
> I now have a decent pair of binoculars with image stabilisation and ever in the local polluted skies I never cease to be amazed at what you can see.
> 
> You are in for a real treat Jim. Enjoy.



The skies above Uluru are dark and pretty too. Part of the tour I was on involved a talk, out in the desert, by an astronomer.

BugBear


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## kirkpoore1 (8 Jan 2013)

nev":3l221dpt said:


> some other galaxies to keep an eye out for...
> 
> The Ford galaxy - most visible from the Dagenham area



Bah. That's not a Ford Galaxy. _This_ is a Ford Galaxy:






If you can get far enough away from towns, the Milky Way is really spectacular. And if you can get far enough north to see the Northern Lights, now there's a whole other animal. And you don't need a telescope for either.

Kirk


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## Russell (9 Jan 2013)

Used to be a member of the British Astronomical society, got to go to some lectures organised by local astronomy club at Torquay grammar school when Chris Lintott was a pupil there and not a presenter on sky at night. Met Patrick Moore a couple of times once at a lecture in Torquay and once when I was a student at the uni of London and we went to lecture at Imperial College given by Patrick been hooked ever since. I certainly recommend joining your local society Im lucky I have one only a couple of miles away


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## Benchwayze (9 Jan 2013)

Paul.J":2fkazwwi said:


> Benchwayze":2fkazwwi said:
> 
> 
> > Paul.J":2fkazwwi said:
> ...



Re the kids' nuisance...

I think that's because I am now retired and no longer able to go up there to kick a few butts! 
Lucky viewer if you have good seeing and privacy.Enjoy. One day I might borrow my daughter's 3" Refractor, and find you!


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## jimi43 (12 Jan 2013)

Ok....this astrophotography is a tad more complicated than it seems and a darn sight colder!

BUT...given that this is my first shot from this new hobby...I am pretty chuffed!






Now I need to get some filters...a higher magnification lens...use the refractor rather than the reflector once I work out how to use it...and oh...switch to high definition rather than medium...I left it on that from yesterday! (homer) 

As they say...the only way is up!

Apologies to Sir Patrick if he's watching! #-o 

Jim


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2013)

jimi43":35lmsuq5 said:


> Ok....this astrophotography is a tad more complicated than it seems and a darn sight colder!
> 
> BUT...given that this is my first shot from this new hobby...I am pretty chuffed!



What camera are you using?

BugBear


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## jimi43 (12 Jan 2013)

Just the old faithful Nikon....BB....cropped and zoomed to oblivion in Picasa! 

I am pondering the dedicated CCD...webcam....modified DSLR route at the moment but therein lies another mortgage.

Frankly, I didn't expect to see anything last night as the weather was supposed to be cloudy until sometime in September :mrgreen: ....so I was so excited to actually point the darn thing at anything other than "Mr Mole".....I was a bit made up.

As I am not about to go ripping my land cameras apart taking filters out and all that crazy stuff...I am looking at getting one of the older Canons (350D?) for the job...or as I say...go down the cheaper modified webcam route for now (something like the Philips SPC900 type stuff).

At this point you start to get into a whole new science by the look of it so I shall "observe" for a while.... :mrgreen: 

JIm


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2013)

jimi43":2ic6qlo7 said:


> Just the old faithful Nikon....BB....cropped and zoomed to oblivion in Picasa!
> 
> I am pondering the dedicated CCD...webcam....modified DSLR route at the moment but therein lies another mortgage.



Start cheap and master the techniques:

http://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/featu ... am-imaging

This (as your title suggest) could be a REAL money pit of a hobby, and ultimately (IMHO) it's no fun "just" buying good results by buying better kit - you're never going to match Hubble or Voyager, so the process itself MUST be the source of enjoyment, not the results.

BugBear


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## UTMonkey (12 Jan 2013)

I agree with bugbear, for me its the challenge of finding stuff nevermind taking a picture of it.


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## jimi43 (12 Jan 2013)

Having seen the results that can be achieved with today's technology by mere amateurs, I think that concept is a few years old.

I want to do the imaging correctly simply because I like photography too.....but I fully intend to observe first...gee louise..there is enough up there to do just that for centuries after all.

So far I have taken advice on kit which will allow me to expand should I get really into it (which I think might be the case) and at worst..if I get bored with it...I can sell the kit on for at least what I paid for it.

I know I'm not about to rip my DSLR apart...Nikons are not that adaptable anyway as I understand....and I am all up for finding cheaper solutions which will give pretty good results...so I am looking into those ideas. I am also looking at programmes like RegiStar but like everything else...there are hundreds of ways to skin a cat these days...so I will hold off with any decision until I understand it all.

Thanks for your advice guys...and particularly to you BB for answering some questions in your PM....looking forward to your project...very interesting what you can achieve with it.

One investment I am going to make for sure is in a decent pair of warm boots....it's bleedin' freezing out there! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Jensmith (12 Jan 2013)

From someone who has seen the reality of the shot you have taken, I hope it was more impressive through the telescope than the photo shows. Seeing the 'colours' of Jupiter for the first time is pretty incredible. Looking forward to seeing future photos.

The cold is certainly the worst part, unless you like staying up late in summer evenings. I once went out at 11.45pm on a warm summer evening to see Jupiter and the 4 moons for the first time and saw an image pretty similar to your photo Jim. It was certainly worth it and I got the rest of the family out to see it too!


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## Benchwayze (12 Jan 2013)

jimi43":16kwfv2s said:


> Having seen the results that can be achieved with today's technology by mere amateurs, I think that concept is a few years old.
> 
> I want to do the imaging correctly simply because I like photography too.....but I fully intend to observe first...gee louise..there is enough up there to do just that for centuries after all.
> 
> ...



Hook it up to your PC Jimi. View what is in the eyepiece on your PC screen. :lol: 
You love it really.


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## jimi43 (13 Jan 2013)

It was Jen...much better and I had no intention of taking any photos yesterday at all but after having all the family out to see it (yup me too!)...I simply had to take a quick grab shot in the hope I captured something. I was amazed anything came out at all frankly...so I will be getting this very shot with much higher clarity in the not too distant future....that's a given! :wink: 

Yes John...I am fiddling about with that idea and it's the "hook it up" bit that I am pondering about at the moment.

As we all know...the clouds are far more common than clear skies at the moment so I will carry on observing while I continue to ponder further. Any tips...greatly appreciated. 

Of course...the bootfairs start in the spring....wonder what I will find there mate!?

Jim


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## bugbear (13 Jan 2013)

jimi43":2xiktjrs said:


> It was Jen...much better and I had no intention of taking any photos yesterday at all but after having all the family out to see it (yup me too!)...I simply had to take a quick grab shot in the hope I captured something. I was amazed anything came out at all frankly...so I will be getting this very shot with much higher clarity in the not too distant future....that's a given! :wink:
> 
> Yes John...I am fiddling about with that idea and it's the "hook it up" bit that I am pondering about at the moment.



I remember reading advice for astronomers that said (from memory) "buy a lathe and learn how to use it. You will eventually, so you might as well do it now" (!!).

A key part of amateur astronomy is the DIY aspect.

(and GOTO mounts are definitely unsporting)

BugBear


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## jimi43 (13 Jan 2013)

Too right BB! I am already whittling some aluminium as we speak.

Actually...it's not the GOTO bit that I want this mount for...it's the auto guide input...later of course!

Anyway....I think I will soon have my DIY work cut out building the dome!!

:mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Benchwayze (13 Jan 2013)

Better get onto Amazon Jimi, and get yourself a copy of 'Amateur Telescope Making' Edited by G. Ingalls, whose fortuitous 'thumb-fumbling' was responsible for the first edition of the book. 

Quote from the book BB, ISTR "You will eventually, so you might as well do it now." :lol: I suppose that applies here too Jimi. Unless you already have your copies.  

As you surmised, it can be an expensive hobby; just like woodworking. 8)


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## Sawyer (13 Jan 2013)

UTMonkey":2phj7wbi said:


> I agree with bugbear, for me its the challenge of finding stuff nevermind taking a picture of it.



Definitely. As one who has no pretensions to scientific research, I enjoy just looking and keeping an observation diary. I have no electronic gizmos and search the old-fashioned way. It gives great satisfaction to succeed in locating a difficult object by a combination of Declination, Right Ascension and star-hopping.


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## jimi43 (13 Jan 2013)

I suppose there are parallels here to woodworking....

I guess I am more in the hand tool camp but I also have electronic gizmos like the milling machine which can do what I can't do anywhere near as well by hand...nor ever could.

There are those who think that hand tool purists are Neanderthals....and that's their view, though not one I share either.

With astronomy...for me...anything which gets me out and learning will be a tool I shall use and then ultimately I guess I will settle with what rocks my boat.

Until that day my ears and eyes are wide open...literally! :wink: 

Of course there will always be those who think that the only bevel is a convex one....those tend to get ignored! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Sawyer (14 Jan 2013)

And what about those concave mirrors (with the silvering on the _front_ of the glass!) ??


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## jimi43 (14 Jan 2013)

Sawyer":hs149rz4 said:


> And what about those concave mirrors (with the silvering on the _front_ of the glass!) ??



:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## bugbear (14 Jan 2013)

Sawyer":maht5y3a said:


> UTMonkey":maht5y3a said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with bugbear, for me its the challenge of finding stuff nevermind taking a picture of it.
> ...



Yeah - since the big instruments are beyond any induividuals's pocket (*), the only goal (IMHO) is to make the max of the equipment you have.

If you "just" want the end result - go here:

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/

I'm currently trying to get the best possible result in astrophotography WITHOUT a driven mount, which is an absurd limitation...

BugBear

(*) Bill Gates excepted


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## jimi43 (14 Jan 2013)

There's a subtle but important difference here guys.

There is "making the most of what you have", which is in itself one whole road in a vast hobby...and using the minimum equipment to observe and/or record that which would not be considered possible with such equipment..... is the admirable goal.

Then there's the group who wish to acquire the best they can afford and then get the maximum out of that equipment.

I think these two categories...though not dissimilar...have different end goals in the same way, and to the extreme...Hubble is not "enough" for the Americans...there has to be Hubble 2 and there will be 3....and they are seeking the ultimate goal..that of new discovery using technology...without which the discoveries simply won't happen.

One thing I have observed whilst reading astronomy forums...is that there are far more polarized, elitist groups within this subject than there ever could be in wood-whittling. And the divisions and animosity that exist are astounding!

Unfortunately the "you can't do this without a bigger knob" brigade leave me cold and the "I can see for lightyears with a 2" one" set....similarly so.

The groups that get my vote are the societies where people with actual experience have been there...done that and travelled down a long road to get to where they are but are not averse to looking back in time to help others who are just starting out on the very same road.

Their aim is to keep these new members from strolling off into the undergrowth that hold many wild animals...almost all of which seem to be financial!

So I won't be shunning autoguides if I need them as I was advised to do so by one of these kind people with such experience and I won't feel ashamed to do so. :wink: 

Jim


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2013)

jimi43":tvl3xs13 said:


> I won't be shunning autoguides if I need them as I was advised to do so by one of these kind people with such experience and I won't feel ashamed to do so. :wink:
> 
> Jim


Hi Jim, 

I wonder if that person was of the mind-set, we should learn our way around the sky without aids and 'GOTO' equipment. There's a lot of them in the hobby. For my money, it makes little difference how you find your way about the sky. As long as you do, (to make the hobby more rewarding, as well as being able to answer a novice's questions on identifying stuff. ) The process is going to be much quicker if you use GOTO techs, as long as you make a note of what the GOTO presents you with; which I am sure you will. 

So GOTO it my friend, and ignore the 'old-fashioned' critics. Just remember what's in your signature! Seems to me, that might be as pertinent on the Astro Forum as it is here. :wink:


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## Paul.J (14 Jan 2013)

It's GOTO for me now.
Started off with an 8" Dob but due to poor eyes,had trouble star hopping and was wasting far too much time trying,especially with the limited amount of time you get out under some clear skies.


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2013)

Another reason to use aids Paul. 

I think the modern Astro equipment is seen in the same light as some woodworkers view modern woodworking aids. A fast route to success. There can be a bit of envy, because these days beginners find it easier to meet the same or similar standards. But you have to work with what you have. Nowadays we have it, so beginners can use it; and they are bound to have a less-demanding 'rite-of-passage'... (Although that isn't necessarily the case.) That's how I see it anyhow!


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## jimi43 (14 Jan 2013)

As a complete innocent in this sport...I do seek information..as with any subject. I want to do this mostly because I want to explore what's out there for my own fun and that's the key word here.

I have no doubt whatever that I shall be looking back at the basics...the progress through the ages and enjoy that just as much. But...I have no intention of freezing my nuts off in the back garden with a copy of a paper star map trying to read it in the pitch dark with Alfie leaping all over me! :mrgreen: 

After all......Galileo didn't try learning everything with his naked eye...instead he ripped the bottom off his Coke bottle and stuck it on a piece of drainpipe! :mrgreen: 

From what I understand the importance of this GOTO head is not so much the ease of going straight to a subject...rather it is useful because of the guide input to stay on that subject while the pixels get their stimulation enough to make a composite image later on. And if I can leave the kit to freeze and have a coffee while it's doing that...perfect!

Mind you...Annie did catch me speculating on how long it would take the kitchen roll to run out the other day so you never know mate! 8) 

Oh...and I ordered "Turn Left at Orion" today...the paper thing not the Kindle! There are some things I won't bow down to technology for! :wink: 

Jim


----------



## No skills (14 Jan 2013)

As such should be all hobbies and past times, use what practices and tools that suit pocket and heart.


----------



## Paul.J (14 Jan 2013)

I still try to learn the night sky as its a good thing to learn,makes life a little easier when i am just using the bins and camera to do widefield shots,but i am new to this and have only been out about five times with the GOTO set up and have only got it working correctly twice out those five times,which does get very frustrating when it doesn't work.
I have a friend who igo out with gazing who only started a few months before me and can find virtually all he target just using his scope manually.I couldn't even see the Big Dipper a few weeks back but my friend was pointing it out to me as he could see it clearly,so the GOTO will be useful for me for both visual and imaging.
The alignment has to be spot on Jim for doing long exposures but i believe there are ways of getting round it more easily but once again requires spending more money.
Another book to consider for imaging is Every Photon Counts,and have you down loaded Stellarium yet,that is very useful?


----------



## jimi43 (14 Jan 2013)

Paul.J":23n6m6vq said:


> I still try to learn the night sky as its a good thing to learn,makes life a little easier when i am just using the bins and camera to do widefield shots,but i am new to this and have only been out about five times with the GOTO set up and have only got it working correctly twice out those five times,which does get very frustrating when it doesn't work.
> I have a friend who igo out with gazing who only started a few months before me and can find virtually all he target just using his scope manually.I couldn't even see the Big Dipper a few weeks back but my friend was pointing it out to me as he could see it clearly,so the GOTO will be useful for me for both visual and imaging.
> The alignment has to be spot on Jim for doing long exposures but i believe there are ways of getting round it more easily but once again requires spending more money.
> Another book to consider for imaging is Every Photon Counts,and have you down loaded Stellarium yet,that is very useful?



Hi Paul

I have downloaded Skeye for Android and it's superb...just hold the phone up to the sector of sky you are looking at and the same area appears on the phone screen.

If you are searching for anything in the sky, you just enter it in the directions field and it shows the current sky with a big green arrow pointing to which way to go to get it lined up. The closer you get the shorter the arrow until the circle lines up with the object and flashes and you are there.

Attach the phone to the telescope and it's an instant guide.

I don't see the difference between this level of technology as my education and a paper map...but there ya go!

Will have a look at Stellarium....

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Benchwayze (21 Jan 2013)

I recall Sir Patrick Moore saying that a three inch (75mm) refractor, would keep the average amateur busy for a lifetime. That was in the days prior to GOTO etc, (And when he was plain Patrick too!) so I decided to take it on board. I cadged the loan of my daughter's 3", which we bought her, and which she hasn't used for some time. Since I asked about the loan, I've been more or less snowed in, and come to think of it, I haven't had clear skies for about five days! So that's going to be on ice as it were...


----------



## jimi43 (21 Jan 2013)

Benchwayze":2g36d48u said:


> I recall Sir Patrick Moore saying that a three inch (75mm) refractor, would keep the average amateur busy for a lifetime. That was in the days prior to GOTO etc, (And when he was plain Patrick too!) so I decided to take it on board. I cadged the loan of my daughter's 3", which we bought her, and which she hasn't used for some time. Since I asked about the loan, I've been more or less snowed in, and come to think of it, I haven't had clear skies for about five days! So that's going to be on ice as it were...



It's going to be clear skies in Kent tonight so it's out in the snow for me!

If you can get out...there are some beautiful things on view this time of the year...Jupiter obviously but also Orion can be seen later and I am working on the nebula at the moment. 

Just to emphasise, on the "GOTO" mount...the benefit is far less the go to bit...rather the tracking bit. Once you set up the equatorial mount and if you concentrate on one object, it is much less of a pain in the rear to only have to adjust the azimuth in order to follow it and especially so if you put the motor on track.

Time is then spent observing rather than fiddling with controls. 

Once I set up the mount last week I could track the moon for several hours without it once leaving the centre of the eyepiece. This is far more important for the weaker objects in the sky and of course...for imaging.

Have fun with your scope mate...and stay warm! I bought a cheap pair of moon boots (excuse the pun!) and that transformed my viewing.

Jim


----------



## devonwoody (21 Jan 2013)

I looked out of the bedroom window this morning at 2 am (to shut the window) and there were plenty of stars up there without going out into the garden. :wink: 
However I do admire your dedication.


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## jimi43 (21 Jan 2013)

devonwoody":2lrinbjo said:


> I looked out of the bedroom window this morning at 2 am (to shut the window) and there were plenty of stars up there without going out into the garden. :wink:
> However I do admire your dedication.



Thought of that mate...but the heat from the room causes quite a bit of distortion and I'm trying to get used to getting the gear to outside temperature to prevent this. I did buy an observatory on FleaBay this week so that should keep me a bit more snug and I think I will need a heated seat for ALFIE...he hates the cold! I just have to stop him jumping up on the tripod just after I have aligned it though! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## Benchwayze (21 Jan 2013)

jimi43":1b2b6vb1 said:


> Benchwayze":1b2b6vb1 said:
> 
> 
> > I recall Sir Patrick Moore saying that a three inch (75mm) refractor, would keep the average amateur busy for a lifetime. That was in the days prior to GOTO etc, (And when he was plain Patrick too!) so I decided to take it on board. I cadged the loan of my daughter's 3", which we bought her, and which she hasn't used for some time. Since I asked about the loan, I've been more or less snowed in, and come to think of it, I haven't had clear skies for about five days! So that's going to be on ice as it were...
> ...



For sure Jim, when the skies clear, I'll be clearing a patch of yard, to set-up! I think I'll get some Moon-Boots too. They will also do for 'mooning' about the house, while I wait for SWIMBO to finish in the bathroom! My fleecy slippers are just about done for! Do I need a size bigger than normal footwear Jim?


----------



## UTMonkey (21 Jan 2013)

As well as footwear, standing on old carpet stops the cold creeping up your leg.


----------



## jimi43 (21 Jan 2013)

THESE ones on Fleabay are cheap as chips and they go up to size 11.

I thought they would be rubbish and I think they are probably not good enough for walking far for long but they are ok out in the snow and lovely and warm!

Problem is...Annie wants a pair now! She keeps nicking mine! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## bugbear (21 Jan 2013)

jimi43":1u6utbnc said:


> I did buy an observatory on FleaBay ...



It's looking like you're right on the "expensive hobby" front.

BugBear


----------



## jimi43 (21 Jan 2013)

bugbear":3vui4bz2 said:


> jimi43":3vui4bz2 said:
> 
> 
> > I did buy an observatory on FleaBay ...
> ...



Just a tad BB....just a tad!

Jim


----------



## Benchwayze (21 Jan 2013)

UTMonkey":1jlcwrhk said:


> As well as footwear, standing on old carpet stops the cold creeping up your leg.



Cheers Monkey,

Carpet also works well on a concrete floor workshop. Years ago, I made a duck-board, with some carpet glued on. 
It's gone the way though, and I am using rubber matting these days. 



I think what I need is a pair of 'Moon-slipper' boots. My walking boots are fine out in the snow, and they certainly help me stay upright! Which at my age, is doubly important. (Missus wants me to wait until I my other knee replacement is done and dusted, maybe she has a point. 8)


----------



## UTMonkey (21 Jan 2013)

I am on the lookout for those, I tend to wear rigger boots when I am gazing as they are easy to slip off when I need to nip back in the house.


----------



## jimi43 (21 Jan 2013)

UTMonkey":1vue5awo said:


> I am on the lookout for those, I tend to wear rigger boots when I am gazing as they are easy to slip off when I need to nip back in the house.



The ones I linked above guys are surprisingly well made...though I don't think in Britain ( :wink: ) and for less than a tenner it's worth a punt. They are just like waterproof slippers with sides!

Jim


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## devonwoody (4 Feb 2013)

Jimi. Have you seen this one.?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk34tMYA_6A


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## jimi43 (4 Feb 2013)

devonwoody":1qke7x7y said:


> Jimi. Have you seen this one.?
> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk34tMYA_6A



Wow...that brings back memories! Just think...the Hubble is almost a quarter of a century old! Frightening stuff that!

What's even more frightening...with today's technology...fellow amateur imagers get results like those now...all be it with a tad less resolution (and more atmosphere to shoot through!).

But...you will be glad that I've taken BBs advice to the letter and kept it simple....







And I checked out one of the special Galileoscopes and they are over £200....but I have a feeling they might not be the basic ones...








> size: 1m long tube, extendable pedestal mount gives a height range of 37-57cm.
> materials: beech tube, spray painted steel casting, optical glass and abs plastic.
> optical: objective lens 60mm dia; focal length 1000mm; magnification 67x, 80x and 100x. Focusing is by manually turning the lens assembly.



:mrgreen: 

I think I will stick to my one for now...






Especially since ALFIE is just getting to grips with finding CANIS MINOR! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Oh...and BB...I picked up "Turn Left At Orion...."






As you can see...I think it works! 8) 

Jim


----------



## bugbear (6 Feb 2013)

jimi43":jo88begq said:


> And I checked out one of the special Galileoscopes and they are over £200....but I have a feeling they might not be the basic ones...





sales blurb":jo88begq said:


> Odoardo Fioravanti, a Milan based designer was commissioned by Palomar, the Florence based optical instrument maker, to re-design Galileo’s telescope for the 400th anniversary of its invention.



Doesn't sound likely to be a bargain :lol: 

Mine is plastic, and mass produced by Merit Models (!!)

http://galileoscope.org/specifications/

Very careful design though.

BugBear


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## jimi43 (6 Feb 2013)

I looked back much further into history the other night when I started imaging the Orion nebula....astounding stuff...really brings it all home.

Jim


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## StarGazer (6 Feb 2013)

Hi Jimi,

Just noticed this thread. As you might guess from my username.....telescopes are a core part of my job, mostly in the 4m-8m class though!

I have a 25cm dobsonian at home for fun, handmade f/6 mirror which was aluminised at work alongside a 2.5m mirror.
Making the structure was one of the things that got me back into woodworking.

SG


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## AndyT (6 Feb 2013)

Good grief Jim - I think I see why you've been a bit quiet on the woodwork tools front!

Do keep a lookout for this when gazing into the heavens:


----------



## bugbear (6 Feb 2013)

StarGazer":6i131yr5 said:


> Hi Jimi,
> 
> Just noticed this thread. As you might guess from my username.....telescopes are a core part of my job, mostly in the 4m-8m class though!



Is that in your front garden, or did you hide it in your back garden? :lol: :lol: 

BugBear


----------



## Benchwayze (6 Feb 2013)

StarGazer":1btov57z said:


> Hi Jimi,
> 
> Just noticed this thread. As you might guess from my username.....telescopes are a core part of my job, mostly in the 4m-8m class though!
> 
> ...



SG, 

I have a 6" f10, that needs figuring. I doubt I will ever get around to it now. If you know anyone who would benefit from it, it's here, with the corresponding glass 'tool' and the lap I used last. (Not that the lap would be much use now). I also have a diagonal to go with it. Going cheep, cheep, for the price of some postal/carrier tokens! 

(hammer)


----------



## jimi43 (7 Feb 2013)

StarGazer":sigi3r21 said:


> Hi Jimi,
> 
> Just noticed this thread. As you might guess from my username.....telescopes are a core part of my job, mostly in the 4m-8m class though!
> 
> ...



Hi SG

A very interesting post...what sector or area of astronomy do you work in?

The Dobsonians are on my list of "will get to when I grow up" list! I think they are brilliant bits of kit...well worth exploring. I am just a bit stuck with sorting out the dome at the moment and really enjoying the benefit of a) zero setup time...and b) being at least 5 degrees warmer than the outside world just by the lack of wind chill!

At the moment I am just getting my head around image stacking and mucking about with Peltier cooling using the guts from a secondhand dehumidifier which cost FAR less than the darn things sold especially for sensor cooling. I have no idea if I will eventually build the DSLR cool box as I am trying to sort out air drying at the same time but that's a thread for another time and dimension! :mrgreen: 

Andy...that is classic mate! :mrgreen: 

I did however see the Plough! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: #-o 

Jim


----------



## jimi43 (21 Mar 2013)

Just thought I would give a little update on how the astro imaging is coming along......

Firstly......my first deep space object.....the beautiful Orion nebula....






.....and this week....the Apollo 15 landing site at Hadley crater on the moon....






More to come

Jim


----------



## Harbo (21 Mar 2013)

Nice pics.

Rod


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## UTMonkey (21 Mar 2013)

Great, keep them coming.


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## nev (21 Mar 2013)

and if you zoom right in to the dark bit, you can just see ...







:mrgreen:


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## Paul.J (21 Mar 2013)

Those are great images Jim


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## Jensmith (25 Mar 2013)

Wow, love the Orion Nebula shot.. Have seen it through my telescope but it didn't look like that!


----------



## jimi43 (25 Mar 2013)

Jensmith":3lpl3uhr said:


> Wow, love the Orion Nebula shot.. Have seen it through my telescope but it didn't look like that!



Hi Jen

Thank you my friend....it's just a beginner shot..I need to capture more data but that leads me on to explain why you can only see a faint grey cloud with the naked eye.

The emissions of photons from a nebula are very weak...Orion is particularly bright for a nebula as is Andromeda to the West.

But the eye is not capable of retaining the photons sent out for long...nor is it particularly tuned to the wavelength of the light...we have developed eyes that work on Earth and throw the image away quickly so we can detect motion.

A digital camera sensor either CCD or CMOS is capable of storing those photons and in those wavelength...as long as you remove the filter built into the camera for land use. This allows energy from the nebula to be recorded better as it is in the red...Hydrogen Alpha and Hydrogen Beta wavelengths around 600-700 nm.

I take many shots of a shorter duration however as not only do the photons from the nebula build up in long single shots but so do those from our nasty light pollution.

So we take many shots capturing a bit of the data each time of exactly the same spot...the telescope electronics follows this spot with great accuracy.

Then we "stack" all these individual pictures...one on top of the other and line them up...the light from the nebula then grows...the more shots you take...the more data you have to process.

The computer then brings these all out as one series of colours and one image with a total length of many minutes or even hours.

This shot of the "Whirlpool" Galaxy which has such a large black hole in the centre it's pulling a near galaxy into it...






...I took using the same number of exposures with the same duration as Orion...but as you can see...the detail and the colour is very poor...I have to take this again with FAR more data to get anywhere near a good picture. It's not a matter of magnification...it's a case of sky clarity and duration of imaging.

That's about as simple as I can explain it without getting overly technical...there are other processes involved but the light you see is the light that's there...it's just that our eyes can't see it all in one go.

Cheers

Jim


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## mickthetree (26 Mar 2013)

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain that Jimi!! I've always wondered why that is so. I have a small beginners scope that I get out when I can. Brilliant shots too. I love to look at the moon.


----------



## StarGazer (26 Mar 2013)

Jimi,

Sorry, didn't see your reply straight away.

I build parts of scientific instruments for large (4m-8m) telescopes located in remote observatories (e.g. la Palma, Hawaii, Australia, Chile) so not the telescopes themselves although the telescope design impacts on the individual instruments as each one is unique. Just starting work on a new major upgrade for a telescope in La Palma which will replace an instrument I commissioned there nearly 20 years ago.

Mainly spectroscopy rather than imaging although I have had the opportunity to look through an eyepiece on the 3.9m AAT and the 4.2m WHT.

SG


----------



## bugbear (26 Mar 2013)

StarGazer":3s80h2uh said:


> ... look through an eyepiece on the 3.9m AAT and the 4.2m WHT.



That must be extraordinary. Would I be correct in guessing that telescopes like that don't (normally) even have an eyepiece, but are almost always rigged with "sensors" of various kinds?

BugBear


----------



## StarGazer (26 Mar 2013)

Hi Bugbear,

Correct, usually a very expensive cryogenic camera or spectrograph. In the early days of each telescope an eyepiece might be used to verify primary mirror alignment and the telescope pointing model, although these days small webcams are so plentiful that the requirement for a temporary eyepiece has all but gone.

SG


----------



## Jensmith (26 Mar 2013)

Thank you Jimi for the explanation. Fascinating and informative. That explains why it looked like a bright grey cloud. 

It must be so exciting putting the images together and seeing what you end up with!


----------



## Paul.J (26 Mar 2013)

Another great image Jim,thats one of my favourites teh Whirlpool,so will ook forward to your next image of it =D> 
Can i ask what set up you have Jim?


----------



## bugbear (26 Mar 2013)

Paul.J":2ab07h36 said:


> Another great image Jim,thats one of my favourites teh Whirlpool,so will ook forward to your next image of it =D>
> Can i ask what set up you have Jim?


Err. Guess what this thread is about!

BugBear


----------



## Paul.J (26 Mar 2013)

bugbear":6eqqhbfq said:


> Paul.J":6eqqhbfq said:
> 
> 
> > Another great image Jim,thats one of my favourites teh Whirlpool,so will ook forward to your next image of it =D>
> ...


Err,astrology is it??


----------



## bugbear (26 Mar 2013)

Paul.J":342j3qts said:


> bugbear":342j3qts said:
> 
> 
> > Paul.J":342j3qts said:
> ...



Actually, I've just re-read the thread, and looked (again) at Jim's nice images. 

I rather suspect he's bought quite a few toys that haven't been mentioned here.

BugBear


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## Paul.J (26 Mar 2013)

I thought i had read all the posts on this thread so far,but seem to have missed the one where Jim says he bought the *Skywatcher Evostar 100ED DS-Pro * :roll:


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## jimi43 (26 Mar 2013)

Ok Paul...that Andromeda shot...it kind of demonstrates what Jen was seeing...a single shot I would expect from the cigar shaped stars on the periphery.

It's a JPG image so I can't do much with it as most of the hidden data is dumped when you compress it but I did a bit of data extraction on it and revealed a bit more of the spiral...






If you can take RAW images with your camera...do about 15x 30s shots on "bulb" at 800ASA and save them in a folder called "subs". Take exactly the same number of shots with exactly the same settings at the same temperature (time)...but with the lens cap on and save them in a folder called "darks". Then take 15x shots at the fastest speed your camera can do again at 800ASA and Manual and save them in a folder called "flats". Finally... next day...point the lens up to the sky with a white T shirt over the lens and take a few shots on AV or auto at 100ASA and save them in a folder called "bias".

When you have done that let me know and I will help you make an image out of them.

Just an update on the equipment front...






I changed the mount because it wasn't quite man enough...then I added a guide scope (the black one)...and a guide camera which I have yet to use in anger (bleedin' clouds!)...the Nikon is there for wide field shots...so not many changes.

For observing...(don't show this shot to Annie!!!)....






...a little reflector...now upgraded with a better focuser...






...and this one for you John...






...just a tiny ( :wink: ) mirror and cell from way back when...soon to be recoated with hi spec mirroring...and used to form the basis of my own Newtonian...out of wood?

Oh...and I do it all from my lounge watching TV....

CLICK FOR YOUTUBE VIDEOS

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

Hey John....

I thought you might be interested to see the underside of the mirror which I took out of its cell to clean tonight...






I'm quite willing to explain the significance of the name of the maker...the great Mr. Henry Wildey, but thought you might like that honour!

I am made up at finding this...astounded might be the word! I wonder if the grinding is accurate enough to be 1/10 PV?

Needless to say this lump of "Pyrex" will be heading off to Orion Optics for analysis and then recoating if it proves to be one of Henry's usual paraboloids!

(we need a "jumping up and down and running around the lounge" smiley!!!)

Jim


----------



## bugbear (27 Mar 2013)

Holy "shoot". This thread title is coming true...

Hope your pension holds out!

BugBear


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

bugbear":1ybmhagu said:


> Holy "shoot". This thread title is coming true...
> 
> Hope your pension holds out!
> 
> BugBear



Hey BB...with these two hobbies I'm actually spending far less than I did on crack cocaine and gambling which were my real passions a few years back! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: 

Jim


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## mickthetree (27 Mar 2013)

haha, so is that mirror out of the black scope you showed? Or another?.....


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

mickthetree":1ds6reo7 said:


> haha, so is that mirror out of the black scope you showed? Or another?.....



As a person whose two favourite shops are bootfairs and FleaBay....and since the weather precludes the former...I picked it up on FleaBay for a score.

My intention was to build my own version of the "black" (dark blue) Newtonian which is from Orion Optics originally (secondhand from a guy in Essex)....but is of exactly the same diameter.

I wanted to understand optics a bit better...build things of my own...although I stopped short of grinding my own glass...I wanted to get out there and looking a the stars.

The cloudy nights since 1813 certainly have aided my tinkering and research but I'm getting rather fed up with looking upwards at dusk and seeing the never-ending clouds rolling in from Dover.  

Now I have the F-number of the mirror....I know where the prime focus of this mirror should be hence where I need to put the secondary mirror and draw tube for the eyepiece...

I'm actually pondering the possibility of building a "Dobsonian" which is a more portable ingenious design of mounting a mirror....

CLICK

That beautiful design is by a guy called Sean Graham...made of hardwood...an ideal merging of my two loves!

Cheers

Jim


----------



## mickthetree (27 Mar 2013)

WOW! What a piece of kit!! What is the diameter of the mirror you showed? Looking at clouds is almost as frustrating as looking at the inside of the box it came in. Mid moving house and its all packed away.

I love that video. Alfie clearly just wants to "help".


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

mickthetree":1i2ogxos said:


> WOW! What a piece of kit!! What is the diameter of the mirror you showed? Looking at clouds is almost as frustrating as looking at the inside of the box it came in. Mid moving house and its all packed away.
> 
> I love that video. Alfie clearly just wants to "help".



It's 8 1/2 inches Mick.

Apparently...the great man himself suggested that this was about the ideal size...for a Newtonian. A combination of speed and portability...just on the limit really.

With the Dobsonian design...the portability issue becomes less of a problem as the whole thing folds up and can be rolled away for later.

The idea is that the whole optical tube assembly is rather like an astronomical "Weeble"....the centre of gravity and weight are very low down and the pivot point is the base...running on a set of bearings for azimuth and on Teflon semi-circles for elevation. Once you get used to using one...you can fair whiz around the skies...or so I'm told!

I would have preferred a larger mirror for this design but it's a healthy size....and with such provenance...a gem!

Jim


----------



## verney (27 Mar 2013)

jimi43":1odf2m37 said:


> I'm actually pondering the possibility of building a "Dobsonian" which is a more portable ingenious design of mounting a mirror....
> 
> CLICK


That is one beautiful dobsonian. I have one scope on order from here:
http://www.sumerianoptics.com/en/


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

verney":3qwvijg5 said:


> jimi43":3qwvijg5 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm actually pondering the possibility of building a "Dobsonian" which is a more portable ingenious design of mounting a mirror....
> ...



Yes...those Sumerian telescopes are very innovative...I will certainly be using some of the design ideas from companies like this when building my scope.

Tentative plans will include exotic woods at some point in the design...sprinkled with some carbon fibre parts...and anodized aluminium...I can see quite a harmony there as with infill planes...beautiful woods and steel working in concert.

Thanks for the comments.

Jim


----------



## Paul.J (27 Mar 2013)

Blimey Jim you certainly got a lot more data out of that M31 image :shock: 
It was only a single 30 sec shot,shot originaly in RAW.
What programme do you use for your photo editing?
That looks like a big upgrade Jim,is that an NEQ6 mount?
Great find on the mirror.


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

Paul.J":3so9mavg said:


> Blimey Jim you certainly got a lot more data out of that M31 image :shock:
> It was only a single 30 sec shot,shot originaly in RAW.
> What programme do you use for your photo editing?
> That looks like a big upgrade Jim,is that an NEQ6 mount?
> Great find on the mirror.



Hi Paul

I put it through CS3...just levels and curves. If you pm me the RAW if you still have it I can probably get some colour out of it. You need longer and more subs and probably guiding....but let's see what we can do.

Yes...it's the NEQ6 Pro..got it secondhand.

Cheers

Jim


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## bugbear (27 Mar 2013)

jimi43":2j7sz227 said:


> You need longer and more subs and probably guiding....



People were taking 1-2 hour exposures on film long before guiding!

BugBear


----------



## jimi43 (27 Mar 2013)

bugbear":120jugee said:


> jimi43":120jugee said:
> 
> 
> > You need longer and more subs and probably guiding....
> ...



People walked in the woods before scouting too..BB...but it just made it more fun and less likely to go astray! :mrgreen: 

J


----------



## bugbear (28 Mar 2013)

jimi43":1skito2k said:


> bugbear":1skito2k said:
> 
> 
> > jimi43":1skito2k said:
> ...



What I mean is, a well adjusted "clock drive" can works well, especially (in the modern era) if you're using stacking, so that each exposure is "only" 30 seconds.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2lazy7/4282723098/

Guiding requires a fully motorised mount AND a second telescope AND a second camera (I'll take the laptop for granted).

BugBear


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## jimi43 (28 Mar 2013)

bugbear":34mq5own said:


> jimi43":34mq5own said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":34mq5own said:
> ...



Hi my friend.

Yes...I knew what you had in mind...but the temptation of an available pun was hard to resist...after all...the COAT has been used far too often for the real weather lately! 

Apologies if I sounded sarcastic!  

I thought...though I may be wrong...that taking lots of shorter images and appropriate darks led to a higher signal to noise ratio because of the way stacking programmes were able to cope with the data. The inclusion of flats to reduce dust mites and bias corrections are not strictly necessary either but help in the final image quality.

I actually meant to say "tracking" rather than guiding though...my fault. And I think that was what you meant too..by your reference to clocks. Autoguiding prevents cigar stars and longer trails for super long exposures where tracking errors start to take effect.

I'm getting "Making Every Photon Count" by Steve Richards....recommended by a friend. I'll come back to this when I've read it...I'm still very very low down on this steep learning curve.

With careful selection of the equipment you either don't have to have all the gear or you can use it for other things as well.

A cheap webcam on the finderscope will suffice and work in PHD...I know...I tried it with a ten quid Xbox camera from Amazon...







...which I promptly took apart...flashed the LEDs to stop them interfering...took out the IR filter and stuck a bit of tubing from an old vacuum cleaner on the front to act as a nose...it worked fine on my fake "LED torch cluster" in the dark kitchen....






...until passing COMET ALFIE and my son returning from a short elliptical orbit to the Poo Galaxy caused a total eclipse of the cluster!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I also thought I had discovered a PULSAR...but it was only ALFIE jumping up and down for his treat! :mrgreen: 

This bit of kit worked fine but a cheap guidescope came up on the astro market and I thought "what the hell!". The guide camera is also a planetary camera....and a really nice one too....so for Saturn in opposition this month...that is going to be very well used in its other role.

So it all can be done on a shoestring budget...but I'm getting too old for tying laces...I prefer slip-on boots these days!! :wink: 

AND...the bootfairs ain't even started yet! What fun!!! :mrgreen: 

Jimi







Jim


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## bugbear (28 Mar 2013)

jimi43":24x0ujsm said:


> I actually meant to say "tracking" rather than guiding though...my fault. And I think that was what you meant too..by your reference to clocks. Autoguiding prevents cigar stars and longer trails for super long exposures where tracking errors start to take effect.



"clock drive" is a standard term (or was...  )

What can now be done by guiding (computer mediated feedback from sensors) used to be done by absolute movement in the mount (engineering + constant speed motor).

BugBear


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## Paul.J (28 Mar 2013)

How about a BARN DOOR set up??


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## jimi43 (28 Mar 2013)

bugbear":1nlkrila said:


> jimi43":1nlkrila said:
> 
> 
> > I actually meant to say "tracking" rather than guiding though...my fault. And I think that was what you meant too..by your reference to clocks. Autoguiding prevents cigar stars and longer trails for super long exposures where tracking errors start to take effect.
> ...



Indeed it was/is...even the RA scale is in hours/mins/seconds but the autoguider on the mount I have takes the pulses from the faint star (the fainter the better)...viewed by the guide camera and corrects both RA and DEC...errors whereas a clock drive will just drive the RA with the earth's rotation by the correct amount...and sidereal and lunar rotation are a bit different too so that is taken into account in the tracking of the mount.

Basically...my aim is to make sure that the object I'm photographing doesn't move. Frankly, the easier it is for me the better and I want it to work so I can leave that bit without worrying at all....it becomes accepted. This frees up time to concentrate on the imaging itself...which is what it's all about.

I'd love to see the top of Everest for a few minutes...but I'm quite happy to go by helicopter! I am way past the "because it's there" philosophy mate! :mrgreen: 

Now if we're talking woodworking..that's a different matter! :mrgreen: 

Whilst I admire those who can get photos from a box Brownie..through a two inch refractor strapped to the back of a grandfather clock....I thing the new doors that are opening for amateur astronomers because of the huge leaps in technology in recent years should be embraced not snubbed by old curmudgeons who would rather be polishing their Fullerscopes! :wink: 

Paul...barn doorsl...yes...that's the general principle...and all that has happened in recent years are the refinements to the original basics. Some ingenious variations have surfaced with electronics but they are really just automating that model...

I am teetering on the brink of getting a cooled dedicated CCD camera...but I want to cut my teeth on the DSLR first and learn the processing properly so I will be sticking with that for a while. I've only had three nights out with it since I bought it but this atrocious weather can't surely go on forever?! That is one thing we cannot influence no matter what gear you have... :x 

Jimi


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## bugbear (28 Mar 2013)

jimi43":2345c6t3 said:


> Basically...my aim is to make sure that the object I'm photographing doesn't move. Frankly, the easier it is for me the better and I want it to work so I can leave that bit without worrying at all....it becomes accepted. This frees up time to concentrate on the imaging itself...which is what it's all about.
> 
> I'd love to see the top of Everest for a few minutes...but I'm quite happy to go by helicopter!



It all depends what interests you.

If the goal is as good an image, as easily as possible, the method is clearly to download from the hubble web site.  

I'm trying to get a half decent image from VERY cheap kit, just to see if I can - it's all about problem solving, and messing around.

Your interests (and many others) lie somewhere between those two extremes.

If you hang round astro forums (I'm guessing you have...) you'll know that some people just admire the skies, either through binoculars (wide field) or dobs (very swingable, large aperture light gatherers). They regard astro photography letting a camera have scope-time that a human could have enjoyed.

None of these people are "wrong" in any sense of the word.

BugBear


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## jimi43 (28 Mar 2013)

110% agree with you BB.....and the key part is that we all have our interests and we are none of us wrong.

The parallels to woodworking are very striking....the beautiful hand tool fanatics and the "devils with tails" brigade!

What irks me is that some from either camp...particularly the extremists....think that it is their life's mission to convert the rest of the world to their thinking and to totally poo poo the "opposition"! :mrgreen: 

I like a foot in both camps...as you can clearly see from ancient mirror to CCD....and I listen to all...everyone has their valid points...every single one.

Since I have no intention of wanting a huge glowing gravestone/memorial...I fully intend to exploit these extremes within my budget of time and money...

Jim


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## jimi43 (28 Mar 2013)

Hi Paul

Well..with one 30s shot in colour with the IR filter still in place I take it....there wasn't much more I could pull out of it so this is about all I could get out...






Very noisy but I managed to get a bit out of it.

The thing about Andromeda...is that it is so very huge. You have the core in this shot and it extends out about three times the amount each side...and possibly more we can't image.

Take a look at this shot of Andromeda....taken by my friend James Stannard and featuring in this month's (April) Sky at Night magazine:






(Click here for hi resolution image)

You can see where the part you have is only a part of the amazing beauty and enormous size of the galaxy.

Sorry I couldn't get more out of it...I will try again later as I need to play with the various settings and this is a real challenge!

Cheers

Jim


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## Paul.J (28 Mar 2013)

Thanks Jim.  
Considering that my image was only a 30 second single shot its caught some detail,and you have brought some of the colours out shown in your friend fantastic image :shock: 
It just amazes me that we can get such fantastic images of galaxies etc that are so far away.
Have you managed to see Panstarrs yet.We've had nothing but cloud since its been visible for us.


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## jimi43 (29 Mar 2013)

Paul.J":1o4rm21v said:


> Thanks Jim.
> Considering that my image was only a 30 second single shot its caught some detail,and you have brought some of the colours out shown in your friend fantastic image :shock:
> It just amazes me that we can get such fantastic images of galaxies etc that are so far away.
> Have you managed to see Panstarrs yet.We've had nothing but cloud since its been visible for us.



Hi Paul

Indeed! That is a lot of data for only 30s....so if you choose to continue get some more and wider so you start to see the outer edges of that wonderful sight. Unfortunately for me...for most of the time...Andromeda is not visible for my setup as my house blocks most of that area of sky at the moment!

I did not see anything of even the moon...let alone the comet! Bloody sky is constantly depressingly cloudy!

Unlike the night I took this shot of Halley....






Unlike this week...in 1986 and in the Southern Hemisphere...this one was clearly visible for ages and I managed to catch this shot using a Nikon F2A...Ilford XP1 film (only newly introduced chromogenic film), on a road next to a minefield just outside Stanley in East Falklands.

I think I will not have that opportunity again as sadly the next time we see this iconic comet will be in 2061!

Jim


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## Jensmith (29 Mar 2013)

Love your friends image of the Andromeda galaxy. beautiful shot.


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## jimi43 (9 Jun 2013)

Finally got the camera I wanted and the images coming off it are just what I wanted....

This is M27 THE DUMBBELL NEBULA:

CLICK LINK

Clicking will give you a huge image but you can see the clarity of the stars now...and the colours!!!

Chuffed to bits!

Jimi


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## Paul.J (11 Jun 2013)

Cracking image Jimi  
Looks like the new set up is working fine*


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2013)

Cheers Paul!

Been out ALL night again last night...25 sub images on what is called M52 (an open cluster top left) and the gorgeous "Bubble Nebula" at bottom right....

CLICK

Great fun...but needs proper processing when I'm less tired!

Cheers 

Jimi


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## Mr_P (17 Jun 2013)

Think you missed your calling in life def should have been a photographer.

Doesn't seem to matter what you point your camera at canine, plane or Astronomical phenomena a stunning result every time.

Any chance of an undoctored pic of the "Red" planet next time you do a late shift ?


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## jimi43 (17 Jun 2013)

Mr_P":2eehmn39 said:


> Think you missed your calling in life def should have been a photographer.
> 
> Doesn't seem to matter what you point your camera at canine, plane or Astronomical phenomena a stunning result every time.
> 
> Any chance of an undoctored pic of the "Red" planet next time you do a late shift ?



That's most kind of you to say so Mr P.

I have been known to wander the streets of NY in my youth with an old (new then) F2A around my neck trying to break into the business in my spare time.

The only success I had in that field was a project I developed after a crazy rum-filled conversation with a National Geographic photographer back in the 80s....

We wanted to build a camera to capture close-ups of surf canoeing...a hobby that another friend was a master at. The resultant image won a few prizes...







Unfortunately, he was tragically killed in a freak accident soon after that image was taken and it didn't seem right to continue. 

Far easier now of course...but I do miss real film....particularly B&W...






Cheers mate

Jimi


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## jimi43 (5 Jul 2013)

I'm getting to grips with the new CCD camera now...






This is the Witch's Broom nebula also known as the Veil nebula in the constellation of Cygnus the Swan.

I have also started the foundations for the warm room to house the computer and control equipment for the dome as part of the whole observatory.....that should keep me and ALFIE snug in the winter. Pictures of that to follow soon.....

Jim


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## Anonymous (15 Jul 2013)

It is so cool.


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## jimi43 (15 Jul 2013)

The Eastern Veil in Cygnus is even more spectacular...






This was taken on a relatively warm light with haze...but I took some more the night before last so I need to process these for a better image.

At the moment...hot nights are not good for astrophotography...the "seeing" is fairly bad most nights. It was 24 degrees in the observatory last night...really muggy.

The winter and the cold, crisp and clear nights are best.

Jimi


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## Benchwayze (15 Jul 2013)

jimi43":2ltjtgz0 said:


> The Eastern Veil in Cygnus is even more spectacular...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Like 'The Veil' Jimi. My fave nebula. 
Nice one.


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## Reggie (16 Jul 2013)

those are some nice crisp shots Jimi, I didn't realise there were so many astronomers knocking around this place  I've got 3 scopes, 2 mounts (2 refractors and an SCT, an alt/az motorised mount and a HEQ5 synscan), 2 cameras and a guidecam. not been out for a while but I do intend to try and get out this autumn/winter.

The colours on the veil itself look nice but not so sure on the star colours, I've noticed that there is a marked difference between all of the images (dumbell, witches broom, veil) but you're definitely on the right tracks. You've definitely cracked the main issues, which are being able to track well enough to take long exposures, getting colour right is an artform in itself.

The summer is a bit of a grotty time for astronomy, it never gets properly dark, best used for practising your aim and getting your setup/teardown times quicker and staring at the moon.

Cygnus is fantastic at this time of year, so high and just chock full of nebula, my favourite is ngc7000 (north america nebula) and the pelican nebula, http://s246.photobucket.com/user/SkyAnd ... 2.jpg.html that's my attempt at it, it just fills the FOV in my 66mm william optics and there are just soooo many stars it makes the mind boggle


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## jimi43 (16 Jul 2013)

Reggie":28txl1gz said:


> those are some nice crisp shots Jimi, I didn't realise there were so many astronomers knocking around this place  I've got 3 scopes, 2 mounts (2 refractors and an SCT, an alt/az motorised mount and a HEQ5 synscan), 2 cameras and a guidecam. not been out for a while but I do intend to try and get out this autumn/winter.
> 
> The colours on the veil itself look nice but not so sure on the star colours, I've noticed that there is a marked difference between all of the images (dumbell, witches broom, veil) but you're definitely on the right tracks. You've definitely cracked the main issues, which are being able to track well enough to take long exposures, getting colour right is an artform in itself.
> 
> ...



Hi Reggie

Nice to have another star nut around...and by nut I mean anyone crazy enough to invest in the sort of patience and funds to get anything out of DSO work! 

I've only been playing with the post processing aspect for a few months...definitely on the nursery slopes compared with the subtle quality of your example image there! Since you are only in East Sussex, perhaps we should meet up and I can get some tips...I definitely lack some basic methods but I'm enjoying trying to get to grips with Photoshop, Maxim and PHD to name but a few tools!

I have managed to tread a fairly careful path of trying and rejecting...trying and keeping as far as equipment is concerned.

The dome is the best purchase without doubt....and the warm room is nearing the final stages to keep me snug during those winter nights you mention. The NEQ6 is a good stepping stone mount.....I won't tell you where I'm aiming but it will probably be a much larger step next time. I have tweaked the NEQ6 so that I'm happy with it now....

I have enjoyed a Orion Optic reflector...now sold...and an ED100...again sold...both for what I paid for them secondhand...and they were enough to tell me I wanted to stick with refractors for now. I was lucky enough to get the APM/TMB 105mm for a song so that will stay around for a while...but plans are afoot to play with Hyperstar stuff and maybe the odd Italian RC! :deer 

The rig is as I like it now....






...I just need to get to grips with the "art" of data processing!

The raw data is...as you point out....not going to be that good this time of the year....getting a clear night is somewhat of a miracle. But I was keen to try out the ATIK...and get used to capturing data so that, come the day the skies cool a bit...I can get some quality data to process.

Thanks for your comments my friend...most helpful!

Jimi


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## Reggie (16 Jul 2013)

My word, you've really gone to town since you picked up that original celestron mount, so that's a skywatcher mount (looks like a HEQ6 syntrek), a william optics 71mm? no idea what the biggun is  I take it you're running EQMod on the mount?

I haven't had the scopes out in anger for a couple of years now but once I've gotten back into the swing of things a bit it'd be great to meet up, although I don't have transport so I wouldn't want to impose.

btw. have you tried www.stargazerslounge.com it's a very good uk astro site, some incredibly talented and helpful amateur astronomers and astrophotographers


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## jimi43 (16 Jul 2013)

Reggie":3m37wiz9 said:


> My word, you've really gone to town since you picked up that original celestron mount, so that's a skywatcher mount (looks like a HEQ6 syntrek), a william optics 71mm? no idea what the biggun is  I take it you're running EQMod on the mount?
> 
> I haven't had the scopes out in anger for a couple of years now but once I've gotten back into the swing of things a bit it'd be great to meet up, although I don't have transport so I wouldn't want to impose.
> 
> btw. have you tried http://www.stargazerslounge.com it's a very good uk astro site, some incredibly talented and helpful amateur astronomers and astrophotographers



Hi Reggie

Yes...though I got my money back on the CG5...just. It wasn't man enough...and ever so slightly quirky...

I also felt that it was a bit flimsy around the motor cover area....don't know what they were doing there. Yes...the replacement is the NEQ6 PRO with SyncScan....and I don't bother running it through EQMOD...though I have done in the past. It was just too much faffing about when most of the time I was concentrating on one DSO so there wasn't much change in GOTO. Because it's on the pier...which is rock solid....I only polar aligned it once and it is spot on now. I might network it up later when the warm room's in though.






The William Optic is a Megrez 72...so you were only 1mm out! :mrgreen: Don't like it much. The focuser is really ropey but I have locked it down tight for now....I'm not sure if I am going to put a Feathertouch on it or a Moonlite or just ditch the whole thing and go for a TAK for widefield stuff. At the moment I have a homemade stepper motor focuser which I knocked up in the workshop...






That makes it a lot easier to get into accurate focus and stay there...though I have yet to try it out in anger! I'm still finishing it off.

The biggun is my APM/TMC LZOS 105mm LW which has Russian optics from the LZOS factory in St Petersberg. It's a little darling. I am using a TS Flattener on it too...which is a must really.

I am a member on SG...but frequent Astro Shed more...and PAIG....although I am not up to posting on the latter yet...need more practice!

PM me your number....we can have a chat.

Cheers

Jimi


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## devonwoody (16 Jul 2013)

Not into this sort of thing but is there not away to get galaxy pictures in daylight with technology?


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## bugbear (16 Jul 2013)

devonwoody":pn9ve4b5 said:


> Not into this sort of thing but is there not away to get galaxy pictures in daylight with technology?



Score just in:

Sol :1 
Technology : 0

 

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (16 Jul 2013)

Some time ago, I mentioned that I had a partially completed 6" glass mirror (around f10) and the corresponding tool. It's never going to be completed now, but that won't stop someone who knows how from doing so. Someone did express an interest I recall, so if anyone does feel they could have a go, it's here for bargaining. (Beer tokens?) 
At the moment my wife is in hospital; having had a knee replaced, and she is not making good progress on physical recovery, to loss of upper body strength. As soon as she is discharged from the physio facility, and back on her pins, I will attend more to this matter. So anyone interested just let me know.


BB. Generally you are correct. But I am sure we have all seen the Moon in daylight, at certain times of the day. And Venus is quite often visible before darkness is complete, as is Mercury at dawn. 

Sol - 1
Nature - 1?


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## Reggie (16 Jul 2013)

Jimi, astro shed have the nice live chat feature which can be pretty useful. not sure what paig is, never been on it  As for taking pics of the galaxy while the sun is around, it's just not going to happen, the moon and a couple of planets might be visible during daylight but that's entirely because of the sun  trying to take long exposures of galaxies will just result in a white-out.


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## bugbear (16 Jul 2013)

Benchwayze":2cmnekpm said:


> BB. Generally you are correct. But I am sure we have all seen the Moon in daylight, at certain times of the day. And Venus is quite often visible before darkness is complete, as is Mercury at dawn.
> 
> Sol - 1
> Nature - 1?



The question did rather explicitly mention galaxies 

BugBear


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## devonwoody (16 Jul 2013)

OH well perhaps our friend can upgrade to a radio telescope or something, I will have a word with my granddaughter in law at the weekend, she is an astro physistist, I think that is what she does. .


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## Paul.J (16 Jul 2013)

Great image Jim =D> 
I bet the obsys like an oven this weather,how does the scope get on with cooling down in this weather,is it able to cool down enough??


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## jimi43 (16 Jul 2013)

Paul.J":20319sil said:


> Great image Jim =D>
> I bet the obsys like an oven this weather,how does the scope get on with cooling down in this weather,is it able to cool down enough??




Hi Paul

I have to open it up every day at the moment...the max/min thermometer shows 47 deg max and 8.4 min over the last week or so....but since I started opening it up...putting a fan inside and generally airing it out the highest it has got is 34 degrees...with outside shade temperature of 31 degrees.

I painted the top white now...and will be doing the bottom along with all of the warm room once it's completed. This has dramatically reduced the heating effect.

The warm room is going in here...







...and with the white dome...






I average night temperatures of 15-18 degrees so I can get down to -10 degrees with the 25 degree cooling capability of the ATIK.

Jimi


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## Billy (16 Jul 2013)

Amazing. If you were my neighbour I'd totally ask myself what the hell was going on in there or if I was being spied on


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## Benchwayze (16 Jul 2013)

bugbear":fcw0loub said:


> Benchwayze":fcw0loub said:
> 
> 
> > BB. Generally you are correct. But I am sure we have all seen the Moon in daylight, at certain times of the day. And Venus is quite often visible before darkness is complete, as is Mercury at dawn.
> ...



I quite like the occasional bar of that too. In a ' general' way. Especially since Cadburys went over the pond. :wink:


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## Reggie (16 Jul 2013)

Billy":194783f7 said:


> Amazing. If you were my neighbour I'd totally ask myself what the hell was going on in there or if I was being spied on


 And you'd be like every other non-astronomer when they see someone with a telescope, seriously, don't flatter yourself, we're all far more interested in staring into the darkness than anything you'll be doing ;-) You could be running around your garden starkers and the most likely response you'd get is 'Can you turn the light off please?'


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## jimi43 (16 Jul 2013)

Reggie":1a0rkhff said:


> Jimi, astro shed have the nice live chat feature which can be pretty useful. not sure what paig is, never been on it  As for taking pics of the galaxy while the sun is around, it's just not going to happen, the moon and a couple of planets might be visible during daylight but that's entirely because of the sun  trying to take long exposures of galaxies will just result in a white-out.



Yes...the live chat feature is a good "saloon bar" to meet up just as it's getting dark to see what people are imaging that night and other chit-chat...good for getting to know people more too.

PAIG is the Progressive Astro Imaging Group. A bunch of very keen imagers indeed....and wealth of information too! Most members know what they're doing that's for sure!

I have enough problems imaging galaxies with moonlight let alone sunlight...and astronomical twilight is around 3am at the moment. If I start imaging at 11pm and run through to 3pm the first and last sub images are obviously lighter compared to the remainder.

Mixing these in with the stack would increase the noise levels unacceptably.

Jimi


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## Reggie (16 Jul 2013)

Back to eqmod quickly, if you've got an obsy, then you're pretty much set for getting it drift aligned properly so the extra resolution and alignment that eqmod gives become pretty unnecessary, I get the feeling that along side the guide camera, you've probably got pec running too?

If you haven't got an obs then eqmod is ideal, especially when combined with starry night etc. it just gives a lot of options for getting to know the sky quickly.

I wouldn't mix the first/last subs with the herd either, in fact, you have to become incredibly ruthless and cull everything that isn't spot on, however, as you've got an obsy with a pier and a temp controlled camera, you have repeatability, so you can afford to wait it out for those good shots and of course, on the cruddy seeing nights, you can sit there and take all of the extra processing frames (darks, lights etc.).

Have you had a go at ngc7000 yet Jimi? It'd look very tidy on that megrez 72mm, it's huge in the FOV of my 66mm w/FFII and 450d 

I've actually been thinking recently about having another go at the 'wobbly wooden wedge' that I made for the celestron nexstar mount but getting an oag this time round instead of trying to mount the WO 66 to the 6" SCT.


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## jimi43 (16 Jul 2013)

Reggie":1ep8zuuz said:


> Back to eqmod quickly, if you've got an obsy, then you're pretty much set for getting it drift aligned properly so the extra resolution and alignment that eqmod gives become pretty unnecessary, I get the feeling that along side the guide camera, you've probably got pec running too?
> 
> If you haven't got an obs then eqmod is ideal, especially when combined with starry night etc. it just gives a lot of options for getting to know the sky quickly.
> 
> ...



Hi Reggie.

When I set the pier up...apart from the obvious levelling, I made sure that the polar alignment was spot on first of all and then used Alignmaster to set it up more accurately. It's basically drift alignment in an all-in-one programme...worth checking out if you haven't already.

I have an EL panel which I made myself from a base sheet from Romania on FleaBay...a lot cheaper. I stuck it to a Corian sheet which makes it very flat and stable and I get even illumination at the end of a session. I believe there is an Auto Dark extraction mode for the ATIK somewhere in the Maxim functions but that's something for when I get to grips with stacking with it! :shock: 

I haven't done the North American nebula...actually I've only had about three clear nights worth since I bought the ATIK as a move on from the 450D....but I'm glad I bought the OSC now...I can't imagine how patient you have to be with a mono and filters!

An off-axis guider is something I have been thinking seriously about...currently I use a QHY5V mono on the 9x50 finder which is apparently a good combination commonly used. I find it doesn't work if there are any seeing problems...but snaps in when the sky is of such a clarity to make it worth imaging! It's a poor man's seeing gauge!! :mrgreen: 

I've been up to 25 minute subs with that setup...and it's rock solid....round stars...no hunting or anything. So I guess I have the settings spot on for what I am doing.

My biggest problem is getting clean enough data for relatively easy processing. I run the gauntlet of my neighbour's porch light (now sorted)...the moon...which has an amazing ability to know when to come out to play...and timing....which we've all suffered from with the Spring weather being so poor. Now it's too hazy! Roll on winter!! :mrgreen: 

Hence the urgency to get the warm room sorted.

Jim


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## Reggie (17 Jul 2013)

I wouldn't bother with an oag with the rig that you've got, unless you're trying to image on both of the larger scopes? Personally, I pick a scope for the target, then whichever ones are left, I'll use one of them for the guide scope 

You could use an OAG if you're trying to squeeze images out of both scopes but generally, you'd use them on something that had a weak mount that couldn't cope with an extra scope, which is entirely why I want one for the SCT, the celestron mount is pretty nasty for imaging and just can't cope with the extra weight demands of a guide scope hanging off it, it's really an observing mount rather than an imaging one (although it's fine doing planetary imaging as the techniques are generally different), if you put it into EQ mode it really doesn't cope well with tracking under it's own steam, it will make the object wander back and forth in the FOV so it needs auto-guiding to make it usable.

25 minute subs is very good indeed, especially if light pollution isn't blowing out the image


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