# looking for guidance on re-sawing with a tablesaw



## SlowSteve (12 Jan 2015)

Hello.

Sorry for a second post immediately next to my first, but this is a seperate topic.

I am currently short on space, and until I build a workshop extension in the summer, I can't fit a bandsaw into the workshop. The biggest thing I am missing is being able to re-saw thick lumber into thinner lumber. I have found a very lovely wood yard which is highly hobbiest friendly ( http://www.johnboddytimber.co.uk/ - John Boddy in Yorkshire - very lovely place and a distressing large number of tools if you have TAD) 

I have a TS-200 saw, which I am setting up following the guidance of Mathias Wandel ( who is a very smart cookie indeed ) and so will be accurate when it's done.

I figure I will have around 2.5" of cut height, so could in theory saw 5" planks, but it seems that if I just use the regular fence, it's a recipe for kickback and/or burning boards. 

Is it a fool errard to try resawing like this? If not, can anyone provide tips and advice on what works and doesn't? Without a bandsaw, is there any other practical way? I don't think I have enough skill to hand cut it a ripsaw.

Thanks

Steve


----------



## blackrodd (12 Jan 2015)

I hope you don't mind me saying,NO.
If you were experienced enough to do it you wouldn't have asked.
The riving knife is not an issue as it can be set just under the saw blade height.
The sawdust will only have one way out and will get the blade very hot and hot and it might well burn out the smaller sized motor.

Regards Rodders


----------



## woodbrains (12 Jan 2015)

Hello,

Ditto, DON'T!

And what's lumber? Please, we are British. 

Seriously, though, you need to look at American woodworking information under advisement. They may do silly things like re sawing on the table saw, but then their record of woodworking related amputations is scary. Wait till you get a bandsaw installed in your workshop extension.

Mike.


----------



## SlowSteve (12 Jan 2015)

OK, many thanks for the feedback - this is exactly why I asked, you guys are smarter and more experienced than I am.

This still leaves me with the challenge of only being able to buy inch thick materials, which is too thick for most projects, and too thick to be practical to hand plane down if I want to work with 1/2 inch or 3/8's to make the likes of drawers out of.

Thanks

Steve


----------



## 8squared (12 Jan 2015)

For smaller re-sawing maybe something this may be useful.

http://youtu.be/Lef3Yel-Yc4


----------



## blackrodd (12 Jan 2015)

TBH, 2 1/2" cut is a fairly respectable timber size, and I would have thought using the TS 200 would enable you to machine and construct a wide amount of projects.
The thing is, how often would you use a bigger saw and actually need 3"x 3" or 4"x 4" etc cut.
Perhaps you should get a bench top bandsaw, my old 3 wheeler will still cut 4" although I have to go slow and steady in cutting.
Although a pain to fettle sometimes, once sorted, they seem to be first choice for many and so very versatile! 
Wouldn't be without mine!
Regards Rodders


----------



## Bodgers (19 Jan 2015)

I have the Axminster 250 bandsaw that gives 120mm cut depth and although it comes mounted on a stand, it can be bench mounted. You could put it back on the stand when you do your extension.

I have seen Matthias' video on modding the table saw to increase the cut depth with the end stop mod. I haven't seen anything specific on his site about resawing on the tablesaw. Not sure if the mod would work with with the TS200...you are starting with a relatively shallow depth of cut anyway. You would probably have to ditch the riving knife, which isn't a good idea safety wise. Fence would have to be very well aligned with the blade to avoid kickback trouble - which with the standard TS200 isn't a given.


----------



## DennisCA (28 Jan 2015)

Resawing like that can work, I've done it a few times because I had no other options, though not with a TS200 but a much stronger and higher quality saw that I know is properly set up and square. Even then I didn't really like it. That jig Blackrodd links looks nice though, probably how I would do it now if I didn't have a bandsaw.


----------



## Steve Maskery (30 Jan 2015)

The TS200 is not the right machine to do this job, it really isn't. On many levels. You would be asking for trouble.
It is modest in both capacity and power, and resawing is a power-hungry task. I'd be very surprised indeed if you really could get 2 1/2" out of it. You would also have to mod the RK and how are you going to guard it? It's all very well following US practices, but that involves taking US risks and as you are at the beginning of your learning curve, taking risks is something I guess you don't really want to do.

The sad fact is that in order to do what you want you need some more expenditure and some more space.

Even a small bandsaw will resaw 5" if it is set up properly with the right blade, almost certainly not the one that comes with it. For years I had an Elu 2-wheeler, later DeWalt, and even that would resaw 6". Slowly, yes, but it would do it.

Sorry to contribute to the bad news, but the good news is that are far more likely to keep your fingers.


----------



## Mark A (30 Jan 2015)

I don't have a bandsaw so instead I use a handheld circular saw to 'deep rip' (I believe that's what it's called).

A bandsaw's obviously better, but if you're short of space then the alternative isn't bad.


----------



## Scottdimelow (30 Jan 2015)

I have the TS200, I used it to re-saw some 120mm oak. Not a nice thing to do, the motor is under powered. It creates a lot of heat so the wood bowed too. I'm in the same boat, need more space for a bandsaw.


----------



## Steve Maskery (30 Jan 2015)

Mark A":3tikc95j said:


> I don't have a bandsaw so instead I use a handheld circular saw to 'deep rip' (I believe that's what it's called).
> 
> A bandsaw's obviously better, but if you're short of space then* the alternative isn't bad.*



YES IT IS!!!!

Mark, mate, that is a really dangerous way to tackle this job. You have very little support for the baseplate of the saw and I don't see how you can have any control over the cut, especially the second cut.

I'm not saying it cannot be done, but is has huge risks associated with it. It is not the right tool for the job.


----------



## geordie (30 Jan 2015)

I couldn,t agree more with Steve I use hand held circ saws alot and they dont like to cut the full depth of the blade for a small cut let alone a long rip
and please belive me a kick back with a saw you have in your hands is not a pleasant thing.Be safe and wait for your workshop extension and bandsaw

Geordie


----------



## ayuce (30 Jan 2015)

I read people, cut the tip of finger on mitresaw (usually considered safer than circular and table saw) while crosscutting 2x4 s because of kickback. Resaw on table saw, circular saw nooo.

Perhaps its better to discuss how to store bandsaw and which size, power is best for your needs.


----------



## Glynne (30 Jan 2015)

SlowSteve, 
Just checking you're in the land of the living and have all your bits intact as it's a couple of weeks since your last post?
To echo what everyone is saying, don't do it.


----------



## Mark A (30 Jan 2015)

Oh dear... I should explain before there's a warrant out for my arrest!

I sandwich the timber to be ripped with 2x4's so that it's more stable, and the saw's baseplate has a wider surface to rest on. I proceed to take several shallow cuts with the saw from one side. I then turn over the timber, wedge some 3mm plastic packers into the kerf, clamp back on the 2x4's and cut the other side with the saw.

Crucially I set the depth of cut so by the end there is some material left in the centre, which is removed with a reciprocating saw or jigsaw. 

For ripping I use the two on the right, my "wormdrive" circular saws - they have loads of torque (can power through the cut without slowing) and the balance is just about perfect.











I understand why some of you are concerned, but I feel the risks involved are negated by doing it my way.

Vindicated? [-o<


----------



## Steve Maskery (30 Jan 2015)

Almost...
S


----------



## Mark A (30 Jan 2015)




----------



## Scottdimelow (31 Jan 2015)

Nothing wrong with that, 20 years ago nobody would of said anything was wrong with. I'll go out on a limb here, I use my TS without a riving knife..I'll get my coat.


----------



## DennisCA (31 Jan 2015)

I did resaw a board today on my table saw, but I got a 3½hp 3-phase saw and a short fence. Basically I was too lazy to setup the bandsaw that had a 6tpi 1/4" blade on it with my 1/2" 3tpi blade, and I still have to plane and thickness boards made on it. The table saw cut is almost as good as a planed surface, almost. So it does have it uses despite having a bandsaw I guess.


----------



## Eric The Viking (1 Feb 2015)

How big a board are we talking here?

Dare I mention that people (including me!) used to use hand saws for this task?

Of course a bandsaw is loads better - I have one, now - but a handsaw is safe and, if sharp, not all that hard work. You just grit your teeth and get on with it. By the time you've rigged up something and checked your life insurance policy, etc. you'd have had it done and dusted. How often are you going to want/need to do it? And can't John Boddy's rip it for you? They almost certainly have a small bandsaw (by sawmil measures).

By the way, here's why you should always use a short fence for ripping (around 20" in). https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=sZPOarBVxSk
He's got a riving knife, and you can watch it almost happening. It's a bit like that old b+w footage of the car on the resonating suspension bridge where you just know something nasty's gonna happen. His jig looks interesting, but I haven't watched the whole thing through yet.


----------



## n0legs (1 Feb 2015)

Dimmaz88":1zwjc526 said:


> Nothing wrong with that, 20 years ago nobody would of said anything was wrong with.



That's very true.

I suppose the problem we have today is we get in equal numbers a lot of info ( YouTube, forums etc ) on how to do things and then the exact opposite ie, what can and does go wrong.

What a lot of people forget is a lot of what is out there is taken as gospel and to be honest it isn't.
What works for some may not work for others. Some people due to vast experience and education are happy to carry out operations that make others cringe. 
A good way to go would be to ask anyone who gives advice what their credentials are and then we could better decide if we want to follow that persons advice. But let's remember advice is not education.

With regards to the question of re-sawing with a table saw, I have been shown a method that is used by a local joinery shop by someone I have known a long long time who has all the formal education we lack, he is someone I trust and respect.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it works. It is safe, the blade is guarded and the riving knife is fitted and when I watched and when I've had a go kick back does not seem to be an issue either. Some common sense guidance is employed and the cut is made successfully.


----------



## Scottdimelow (1 Feb 2015)

I think we all need to assess the situation, make sure we feel comfortable and crack on.

Some people just love telling people what to do I think, and then the safety officer was invented


----------



## blackrodd (1 Feb 2015)

Dimmaz88":2zehbrr5 said:


> I think we all need to assess the situation, make sure we feel comfortable and crack on.
> 
> Some people just love telling people what to do I think, and then the safety officer was invented



Some one, somewhere said that people need protecting from themselves.
I think you will find all was well under the safety officer.
This was where square blocks were banned and guarding and many other safety issues were enforced under various factory acts all before the 70's
The newer health and safety office where the operator is not taught to assess work related safety issues, and is not made to be responsible for his own actions.
Looking at the well known safety film in which the "alleged victim" complains that " I was given the wrong ladder"
says it all.
With that attitude, I would say he was a certain danger to himself and all those around him in the workplace.
Regards Rodders


----------



## Eric The Viking (1 Feb 2015)

blackrodd":yhgh3sw8 said:


> Dimmaz88":yhgh3sw8 said:
> 
> 
> > I think we all need to assess the situation, make sure we feel comfortable and crack on.
> ...



Absolutely. Just been reading some American Time Life woodworking books with some quite scarily dodgy tablesaw techniques in them. The daft thing is that most of the processes could have been easily done with hand tools and wouldn't have been at all dangerous that way. And even if you did do what they suggested (involving lots of finger boards etc.), by the time you'd set up the saw table the manual-equivalent job would have been long finished. 
. . .
Early 1960s, I was quite small, about five or six. We were staying at my grandparents (mum's dad). Grandpa came up from the mill after work, but things weren't normal. The adults were talking in hushed tones and with serious faces. I asked mum about it. Before thinking, she answered me, then immediately realised she probably shouldn't have. 

One of the mill staff had lost a hand in one of the planers.

I can't imagine how it happened, and I don't know if it was literally that bad, but that's what she said. I have never forgotten the incident, fifty years ago now. Nor has she. 

They were big Wadkins, incidentally, over & under, a pair of them side by side (16" at a guess). they made a hellish noise, and whilst I used to love watching Grandpa drive the big bandsaw cutting boards from treetrunks, I'd run right out of the mill yard whenever the planers started up (they were near the doors). Same with the Wadkin radial, but the planers were worst.

How anyone would be stupid enough I can't imagine, but even if one planer was working on its own you'd have to lip-read. It's possible someone misunderstood someone else and pushed a button - I have no idea at this distance in time.

But there's no doubt It needn't have happened.


----------



## Tim_H (3 Feb 2015)

On a similar note B&Q no longer cut small length timber for customers after one of their staff lost a hand on their big panel saws last year. Depending on the person you get they will get out a hand saw!


----------



## JanetsBears (9 Feb 2015)

I'm not sure of the level of skill of some of the staff at B&Q, and I'm not sure if the particular member of staff who was at the panel saw when my brother-in-law got there was just taking the micky, but this actually happened...

Sister sent brother-in-law to B&Q for a piece of plywood to blank off a small window in their garage. She told him to get them to cut it to size, 40cm x 60cm. Brother-in-law asked panel saw operator to cut it to that size, at which point the operator said "I need to have the measurements in millimetres". As if that wasn't bad enough, my brother-in-law went home without the wood, intending to return when he'd got the measurement in millimetres! Needless to say, my sister wasn't impressed!

Back to the original question, the first issue is that the TS200's riving knife can't be adjusted so it's below the height of the blade without re-shaping it if it's anything like its bigger brother, the TS250. I have a TS250-2 and have reshaped my riving knife and discarded the guard as most of the stuff I do is fairly small and done in sleds or jigs with suitable guards, and I specifically want to be able to perform non-through cuts.

The second issue in my mind is the thickness of the wood that you're trying to re-saw. I don't think anyone would have a problem with somebody ripping a piece of 3"x3" length of wood into 2 pieces just less than 1.5"x3". There will be some people who wouldn't like the thought of ripping a piece of 4"x4" length by cutting part way through then flipping it over and cutting from the other side, but plenty of people who would find that acceptable because the (almost) 2" either side of the blade will allow the pieces to remain upright and stable with very little effort. How many would like to rip a 0.25"x4" length to create two 1/16th thick pieces though? Not many I suspect, because without something to hold it securely, there's a big risk of it being thrown back at the operator.

I ripped some 1"x5" oak last night to create two thinner 5" boards, but I rechecked my saw and fence's alignment thoroughly before starting and only cut about 0.5" per pass, increasing the blade height each time, and using a wide push stick. It was very stable and produced no burning.

In summary, think carefully before you start about what might go wrong, then guard against it. Don't try to push your equipment to its limits and don't push yourself beyond your own limits and stay safe!

Chris


----------



## woodfarmer (9 Feb 2015)

geordie":3ustg2f6 said:


> I couldn,t agree more with Steve I use hand held circ saws alot and they dont like to cut the full depth of the blade for a small cut let alone a long rip
> and please belive me a kick back with a saw you have in your hands is not a pleasant thing.Be safe and wait for your workshop extension and bandsaw
> 
> Geordie



Especially when you are lying upside down between the centre keel and side keel of a boat and it is just an inch or two from your face


----------



## RobinBHM (9 Feb 2015)

Eric The Viking":33mtrhhh said:


> blackrodd":33mtrhhh said:
> 
> 
> > Dimmaz88":33mtrhhh said:
> ...



The terrible injury and noise tells me it was almost certainly a planer with square blocks. Modern circular blocks cause very little air movement and are hence so much quieter.


----------



## Job and Knock (25 Feb 2015)

Dimmaz88":2ctagpc0 said:


> Nothing wrong with that, 20 years ago nobody would of said anything was wrong with.


Try 40 years ago, more like, and even then not everybody would have agreed. The design of rip fences changed back in the mid-1970s and we were being taught about using short rip fences and having the crown guards in place well before that at college. Full blown rip saws, of course, had short fences as far back as WWI. The short rip fence, high-low fence plates and crown guard always on became more or less standard on industrial kit after the 1974 Woodworking Regs came into force. Please check your facts before making throw-away comments.



Dimmaz88":2ctagpc0 said:


> I think we all need to assess the situation, make sure we feel comfortable and crack on.
> Some people just love telling people what to do I think, and then the safety officer was invented


The first time you have to deal with an amputation or a near amputation you might well change your tune. As a First Aider I've actually had three in twenty or so years. Oddly they were all the same story - site rip saw, no guard, no riving knife and a supposedly experienced carpenter. The practice of "deeping" (i.e. ripping half depth one side, fliipping the timber and completing the cut from the other face) is still widely practiced on sites, although very much frowned upon because it has a bad accident history. Some site managers won't permit rip saws for this reason. Others hire-in a 9-1/2in portable rip saw to circumvent the need.

If anyone does feel the urge to do their own "deeping" then please consider the need for a riving knife, run-off support, push sticks and an overhead guard of some form. There's quite a good design for a home made one on Badger Pond (an American site, no less), although the removal of the riving knife is typically American and in my eyes a bit dumb. But then I tend to watch American videos with my toes curled up. So many people trying for a Darwin Award


----------



## Job and Knock (26 Feb 2015)

RobinBHM":2ndjzc7n said:


> The terrible injury and noise tells me it was almost certainly a planer with square blocks. Modern circular blocks cause very little air movement and are hence so much quieter.


I think I'd have to agree, although square blocks on planers were banned on new kit as long ago as the 1930s and fortunately disappeared on new panel planers (thicknessers) by the late 1960s. They had the advantage of being able to carry pairs or even multiple pairs of profile knives which allowed you to produce one-sided (planed finish face only) skirtings and the like very fast. These older thicknessers used to have holes drilled at either end of the tables to take register bars to keep your rough sawn timber in line with the cutters. And they were very noisy - not a high pitched sound, either, more like the drone of a Lancaster bomber


----------



## stuartpaul (28 Feb 2015)

Dimmaz88":3q4rjos3 said:


> I think we all need to assess the situation, make sure we feel comfortable and crack on.
> 
> Some people just love telling people what to do I think, and then the safety officer was invented



Only works if you actually know the risks involved in what your assessing! So many people on this site alone ask questions on practices that could be considered 'iffy' qnd thankfully they tend to be steered towards safer methods.

A+E departments get regular visits from people who thought they knew what they were doing!

Your second comment is almost insulting to a wide range of people who go out of their way to try and keep others out of harms way. And I don't give a stuff about the 'I've always done it this way and never had a problem' brigade. They're usually first in line for the no win no fee brigade!!!


----------

