# How NOT to make field panels - Do Not Do this!



## deema (18 Oct 2022)

So, trying to get myself a little more enthusiastic about routers, I decided to experiment making fielded panels with a router instead of my trusty spindle moulder. As the title say, do not do this, it’s extremely dangerous, and rather silly!

First off I need a cutter, I have a nice big panel cutter I use on my spindle moulder, it’s only 190mm in diameter, and made of aluminium so fairly light. It’s only rated at 6000RPM, and my trusty router doesn’t have speed control, so that could be interesting.







I now needed an adaptor, the cutter is designed for a 30mm shaft, but my hand router only takes 1/4”. An adaptor is required, luckily, I have a stubby spindle for my spindle moulder. It has a threaded hole on the underside that allowed me to quickly make an interface on the metal working lathe so that it would fit into the router collet. I snuggled the collet up good and tight!






The idea is to run the router on top of the work, and use shims to both space off the router (ok they will be rotating so care is needed) and to set the distance down for the cut from the top surface.






The little Elu router looked a bit small compared to the cutter block. But what the heck, in for a penny in for a pound. If you go to my thread on gate renovation you can see the results in oak. Not bad!


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## Daniel2 (18 Oct 2022)

Well, I hardly know what to say.  
Do you still have all your fingers, toes and intestines ?


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## Spectric (18 Oct 2022)

What made you take such risk, large objects revolving beyond design speed tend to go into orbit taking out anything in there path.


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## Daniel2 (18 Oct 2022)

Or are you writing to us whilst waiting in A&E to be attended to (urgently) ?


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## Peter Sefton (18 Oct 2022)

Looks scary as hell.


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## gcusick (18 Oct 2022)

That is truly worthy of some of the American YouTube videos.


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## rogxwhit (18 Oct 2022)

No way I'd have done this. The cut (and size of block) is out of proportion to a 1/4" shaft. The degree of exposure is crazy too.

And it's brutal to that poor little bottom bearing in the lightweight router.

Failing a spindle, you can cut fields on a sawbench (given that the taper will extend right to the edge) - one cut for the taper, and one cut to define the field if wanted. 

Then there's hand tools ...

!!!!!


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## Inspector (18 Oct 2022)

You got more b**** than I do. 

I would put it in a table saw though if it would stick out of the table enough and run the panel vertically against a tall fence. 

Don't need to as I can put knives in the W&H planer moulder and run them with that. 

Pete


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## deema (18 Oct 2022)

I used Kojestia material for the interface shaft, no chance if that letting go. I don’t have much of that stuff left in my stash, but it always makes me chuckle when I’m using it.


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## rogxwhit (18 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> I used Kojestia material for the interface shaft, no chance if that letting go.


To my mind it still constitutes router abuse! And I remain concerned about safety ... ;-(


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## Sideways (18 Oct 2022)

Next workshop project: a full suit of plate armour !

Since we own four MOF96's between us, how about knocking up a belt drive mechanism and driving it properly ?

Keep this up and you'll convert me to spindle moulders


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## ChrisWiduWood (18 Oct 2022)

Is it April already!?


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## ChrisWiduWood (18 Oct 2022)

Is this an attempt to see if people believe everything they see on the internet!?


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## deema (18 Oct 2022)

The MOF96 only has a 600W motor, it was able to take a full cut in one pass in oak, I was very surprised, I thought it would struggle. A large bearing would have made it safer to act as a guide,


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Oct 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> Well, I hardly know what to say.
> Do you still have all your fingers, toes and intestines ?


you forgot mind.


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## Hornbeam (18 Oct 2022)

John. We have met and I thought you were a sensible guy. This post may change my opinion


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## Doug71 (18 Oct 2022)

I hope you rigged up some dust extraction or I consider it dangerous


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## heimlaga (18 Oct 2022)

You did run it hand held didn't you? Router tables are for sissies


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## deema (18 Oct 2022)

heimlaga said:


> You did run it hand held didn't you? Router tables are for sissies



It does generate a lot of gyroscopic force when running, helps to keep it steady physics, none of the namby pamby router table stuff. I’ve got some very large steel spindle moulders blocks, they weigh a few KG, (not just the an 0 gram I posted earlier) I’m eager to try next


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## Bingy man (18 Oct 2022)

Watched a video recently of a guy who made a chainsaw mill using a ladder and a homemade jig to cut a log into planks - looked scary but he did a decent job - your set up although ingenious is far more worrying 🫣🫣 such a large cutter in a handheld router is well - I couldn’t of watched that operation without a paramedic standing by . Seriously though I’m glad your in one peice -


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## Jameshow (18 Oct 2022)

I'm a little concerned that the router might be running faster than the euro block is designed to run?!


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## deema (18 Oct 2022)

@Jameshow ahh, just a tad faster, the router runs at something like 17,000 RPM, that’s just a smidge under 300% rated max speed of the block. But, the cutters are pinned and wedged


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## Spectric (18 Oct 2022)

Hopefully Deema is not looking at the darwin awards as a badge of recognition!


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## TRITON (19 Oct 2022)

Pic 1. Thought, yup no probs there
Pic 2. hmmm, not sure what that is, maybe an extension of some sort.

Pic 3. WTF  

I''ve watched a joiner cutting a panel raising with an 85mm router bit freehand, working very slowly, and the guy had massive forearms, so I think thats kind of ok. But pic 3 


I think the problem with this place is the vast majority of you haven't see the results of a spindle moulder accident involving the loss of fingers. You quickly come to the conclusion that this woodworking thing can be kind of scary unless you follow those hse instructions to the letter.

My ex boss took off the tops off 3 fingers, right down to the base of the nails on index,middle and ring using a panel raising bit on the moulder, just shaved them off and there was no bits left over to try to stitch back on. 
Kind of like Pzzzzzft and they were gone. Silly barsteward thought using guards was for girls.


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## owen (19 Oct 2022)

How can anyone think this is a serious post


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## Bristol_Rob (19 Oct 2022)

Thankfully you posted this in a room full of people who know how wrong this is but are too polite to call you batdung crazy 

The real scary thing would be if you posted this on YouTube - Some proper nutter may actually try to copy it


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## pe2dave (19 Oct 2022)

Some ideas you look at, maybe look again, then turn away.
I think this falls into that class of Nah, daft.


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## steve66 (19 Oct 2022)

There should be a disclaimer on this thread “don’t try this at home”
What is wrong with your spindle moulder ?
You can get panel fielded cutters for the router. 
Reminds me of the crazy Canadian, cutting dovetails with a bench mounted chainsaw


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## HOJ (19 Oct 2022)

Nice one @deema , interesting reading the replies


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## Lons (19 Oct 2022)

Unless you post a video of you actually using that set up I for one don't believe a word of it.
Although there are people stupid enough to do it I seriously doubt you are one of them - at least I hope not!

You're having a laugh, however what would concern me is that there might well be people browsing the forum who think, "there's an idea, I'll try that" PLEASE DON'T, it's downright dangerous and I'd suggest a bit irresponsible posting the thread in the first place.


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## Deadeye (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> So, trying to get myself a little more enthusiastic about routers, I decided to experiment making fielded panels with a router instead of my trusty spindle moulder. As the title say, do not do this, it’s extremely dangerous, and rather silly!
> 
> First off I need a cutter, I have a nice big panel cutter I use on my spindle moulder, it’s only 190mm in diameter, and made of aluminium so fairly light. It’s only rated at 6000RPM, and my trusty router doesn’t have speed control, so that could be interesting.
> 
> ...


Hehehe. Funny.


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## deema (19 Oct 2022)

So first off, in the interests of Health and safety I tested it out on the bench. I sat the router in my vice, and gripped it inverted. The nice thing about the Elu is that it has a proper switch, not one I have to press all of the time. I was able to operate the on off of the router from the plug. So, stood a long way away initially to check it out how it would react. It sat there purring and make a nice high pitched wine.


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## Jameshow (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> So first off, in the interests of Health and safety I tested it out in the bench. I sat the router in my vice, and gripped it inverted. The nice thing about the Elu is that it has a proper switch, nit ine I have to press all of the time. I was able to operate the on iff of the router from the plug. So, stood a long way away initially to check it out I texted how it would react. It sat there purring and make a nice high pitched wine.


Remind me of model aeroplane engines tested on the bench. One false move and you lost a finger!!


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## Daniel2 (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> I used Kojestia material for the interface shaft, no chance if that letting go. I don’t have much of that stuff left in my stash, but it always makes me chuckle when I’m using it.



I'm sorry but I have to ask (Google didn't return anything), what is Kojestia ?


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## deema (19 Oct 2022)

@Daniel2 it’s a blend of three things I believe, I have a mate who has a high temperature kiln that he uses for casting iron, so seriously hot! and can therefore create his own blends of materials to make alloys. We can test ductility and hardness so we are sure of it’s physical limits. It’s not just chucking 3 things in the pot, mixing them up and hoping that everyone works it out.


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## deema (19 Oct 2022)

Flushed with my success from yesterday. I’m going to have a go at mounting my spindle moulder rebate block, with a top bearing to create a serious flush cutter. The advantage of the spindle block is that it has carbide disposable cutters and ‘nickers’, so none of the issues of a router cutter that creates tear out at the edges. I think the extra mass will mean it can take a good bite in one go. I intend to vary the top bearing (which I have a few) to allow me to cut door or window frame rebates. These are typically 16mm deep and around 50mm deep.

I would welcome any suggestions, help with how to do this setup as safely as possible. The cutters on this rig will be on the side, ie exposed to my midriff where as the field block had them on the top, out of the way so to speak. They are limited projection, so the sane amount of cutter exposed as any router bit.
I intend to do it hand held again.


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## Deadeye (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> Flushed with my success from yesterday. I’m going to have a go at mounting my spindle moulder rebate block, with a top bearing to create a serious flush cutter. The advantage of the spindle block is that it has carbide disposable cutters and ‘nickers’, so none of the issues of a router cutter that creates tear out at the edges. I think the extra mass will mean it can take a good bite in one go. I intend to vary the top bearing (which I have a few) to allow me to cut door or window frame rebates. These are typically 16mm deep and around 50mm deep.
> 
> I would welcome any suggestions, help with how to do this setup as safely as possible. The cutters on this rig will be on the side, ie exposed to my midriff where as the field block had them on the top, out of the way so to speak. They are limited projection, so the sane amount of cutter exposed as any router bit.
> I intend to do it hand held again.


Presumably this is to help anyone that hadn't worked out the joke yesterday?


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## Doug71 (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> They are limited projection, so the sane amount of cutter exposed as any router bit.



It's good to know you are taking the health and safety side of things seriously


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## Against_The_Grain (19 Oct 2022)

That’s a nice stub shaft you’ve made, for making much deeper cuts that can be allowed with a full-length shaft obstructing the depth of cut.


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## DBT85 (19 Oct 2022)

Inspector said:


> You got more b**** than I do


Yes but after running that cutter as shown said testicles are currently scattered over a 10m radius.


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## Fergie 307 (19 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> Flushed with my success from yesterday. I’m going to have a go at mounting my spindle moulder rebate block, with a top bearing to create a serious flush cutter. The advantage of the spindle block is that it has carbide disposable cutters and ‘nickers’, so none of the issues of a router cutter that creates tear out at the edges. I think the extra mass will mean it can take a good bite in one go. I intend to vary the top bearing (which I have a few) to allow me to cut door or window frame rebates. These are typically 16mm deep and around 50mm deep.
> 
> I would welcome any suggestions, help with how to do this setup as safely as possible. The cutters on this rig will be on the side, ie exposed to my midriff where as the field block had them on the top, out of the way so to speak. They are limited projection, so the sane amount of cutter exposed as any router bit.
> I intend to do it hand held again.


I shall miss your posts when you are gone. Most of us would probably prefer to be reduced to ashes in the conventional way before being scattered


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## ChrisWiduWood (19 Oct 2022)

i'm still not convinced this is real, the photo shows the spindle block is not centre to the router? how did you hold the course with no bearing or guide? and most of all why would you substitute the spindle for a router? details... i need details...


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## SammyQ (19 Oct 2022)

EVERYBODY!! The title specifically says: "DO NOT DO THIS"...O.P. has a warped sense of humour ("Let's see how many people skim read?" perhaps).


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## deema (19 Oct 2022)

@ChrisWiduWood any offset that appears in the photo is probably down to the angle it was taken at, I also have to say, that the router has had the base machined. When I bought it for £10 is was sold as being wonky. I think it had been dropped. @Sideways and I set it up on my mill and machined the base to be perpendicular to the spindle. I can add a photo of how the thickness of the base varies. This probably adds to the look of it being offset. 

So, the following photo shows the block and the stubby spindle and how it was built up. I added spacers in between the cutter and the spindle, these could rotate, however not as well as a bearing. They acted as a guide for the cutter. Although the block is aluminium, rotating at some where near 17,000 RPM it generates a lot of gyroscopic stability, it was surprising ease to hold and guide. I was clutching the router in a death grip with my heart in my mouth.


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## Stevekane (20 Oct 2022)

How about mounting your cutter on the end of a motor shaft instead of the little router, give it a bit more grunt and get the perimeter speed down too, you would then be more than half way to a diy spindle,,
Steve.


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## Against_The_Grain (20 Oct 2022)

In the spirit of showing the capabilities of the router, I'll show another good example. I'm sure any of you that have tried to replicate historic mouldings with a router have had a hard time doing it as either you have to use standard off the shelf cutters, or you have to spend a large fortune having custom made bits to suit your profiles. Usually you can get a profile _close _with these, but never exact.

I have this great little bit which in reality it is simply a miniature Whitehill cutter block but better suited to much smaller cutters, you can cut and grind old planer knives to any profile you like and clamp them solidly in it. The beauty is that you don't need to be too particular about how you set it up, here in this example just to show how well it works I've got the profile knife I want to use and a balance cutter which is actually a slightly thicker steel set deeper into the block. The cutter projection is a bit large for the router base but that's fine as I can set it close and plane the timber down after to suit.






After running the router with a fence on a southern yellow pine scrap and planing it down in thickness to get rid of the lip left behind, I'm left with the intended historic moulding (in this case, part of an architrave profile from Beadida Manor) on the edge of the timber, exactly as I want it.






The surface finish is excellent, as the cutter spins at 24,000rpm even with only one cutter actually cutting it cuts 400 times per second, meaning you can be quite brisk with the feed rate and still end up with an exceptional surface.






So if you want to replicate historic or make your own completely original mouldings on a budget, one of these bits is a must-have for the routing enthusiast. Spend pennies reusing old knives, rather than hundreds of pounds buying custom bits.


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## Stevekane (21 Oct 2022)

How about mounting your cutter on the end of a motor shaft instead of the little router, give it a bit more grunt and get the perimeter speed down too, you would then be more than half way to a diy spindle,,


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## Against_The_Grain (21 Oct 2022)

Stevekane said:


> How about mounting your cutter on the end of a motor shaft instead of the little router, give it a bit more grunt and get the perimeter speed down too, you would then be more than half way to a diy spindle,,


 Bad idea, the rim speed would be way too low then, The panel block wants to be turning at an absolute minimum of 4800RPM and the average 2-pole motor runs at 2800RPM, the risk of kickback would be *very* high in that case.


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## Lefley (26 Dec 2022)

deema said:


> So, trying to get myself a little more enthusiastic about routers, I decided to experiment making fielded panels with a router instead of my trusty spindle moulder. As the title say, do not do this, it’s extremely dangerous, and rather silly!
> 
> First off I need a cutter, I have a nice big panel cutter I use on my spindle moulder, it’s only 190mm in diameter, and made of aluminium so fairly light. It’s only rated at 6000RPM, and my trusty router doesn’t have speed control, so that could be interesting.
> 
> ...


I'd really love to see a tube video of you taking a cut with that. You're wife is probably out right now, upping your life insurance with a huge smile on her face,


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## Jameshow (26 Dec 2022)

Lefley said:


> I'd really love to see a tube video of you taking a cut with that. You're wife is probably out right now, upping your life insurance with a huge smile on her face,


Dodging the Ambulance strikes I see Deema!!


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## Terry - Somerset (26 Dec 2022)

At 10,000 rpm a router bit with a diameter of (say) 100mm will rotate at its edge in excess of 100mph. 

To put into context - an Olympian javelin thrower may get 70-75mph on release. Would not want to stand in front of that!

There is a joy in finding solutions to woodworking problems. Occasionally enthusiasm takes over rational judgement - running a cutter at 2-3 times its rated speed using a tool designed for cutters one third of the size and weight is a good example.


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## ChrisWiduWood (26 Dec 2022)

Got to say ... still not a believer. Im not saying OP is. a liar , i just cant see it is central to the shaft , that and it's a huge block on a 1/4 shank... 

Any how.. Im not here to be negative, Merry Christmas one and all!


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