# Veritas® Apron Plane advise please



## LyNx (28 Oct 2005)

I'm not jumping on the "got to have" bandwagon but as i mentioned before, i looking for a new block plane. I have decided to get the Veritas® Apron Plane as a christmas present from my little boy (i'm paying but he's wrapping it). The only thing not sure about is the blade. It is worth going the extra bit and getting the A2 steel blade or is the HCS blade enough. 

Does anyone know a good supplier for veritas hand tools as i may have a go at the spoke shave kit to in the new year 

Thanks 

Andy


----------



## martyn2 (28 Oct 2005)

hi andy try this link 

http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=products&pc=C_106

no doubt martin brown will be able help you a lot more on this  

:? come to think of it " :? Planes :!: "ok lots will be able to help you out :? 

Martyn


----------



## Alf (28 Oct 2005)

LyNx":3ts8qrkc said:


> It is worth going the extra bit and getting the A2 steel blade or is the HCS blade enough.


Depends. A2's edge lasts longer, but takes longer to hone in the first place. HCS is quicker to sharpen, but unless you sharpen often anyway (like I tend to) you'll be doing it more often. I'd go for HCS unless I expected to be trimming a lot of manmade boards and such, I think. But it's a personal thing - toss a coin.  



LyNx":3ts8qrkc said:


> Does anyone know a good supplier for veritas hand tools as i may have a go at the spoke shave kit to in the new year


Not sure who, if any, are stocking the spokeshave kit; I went direct to BriMarc.

Cheers, Alf


----------



## ydb1md (28 Oct 2005)

The HCS blade is fine -- my wife ordered my apron plane with the HCS blade and I had no complaints. I eventually ordered the A2 blade because I use my apron plane for a variety of tasks. 

When I'm cleaning up glue lines, I'll use the HCS blade. I save the A2 blade for when I'm doing fine work. I also have some brass shim stock that I use under the blade to tighten up the mouth.

The HCS with the factory bevel will crumple on a hard wood's endgrain unless you're really careful. So, you'll have to use a steeper microbevel or use the A2 blade in that instance.


----------



## Martin Brown (30 Oct 2005)

If you don't like the A2 blade we can happily refund replace. Just PM me directly. Avoid Axy show time tho....

The A2 far out sells the HCS fyi

Martin


----------



## Frank D. (31 Oct 2005)

I much prefer A2 blades. I'd say just get the A2 blade and forget about it, instead of 2 blades that do the same thing. If you want an all-purpose little block plane then an A2 blade sharpened at 30° will do everything including end grain. 
2¢


----------



## engineer one (31 Oct 2005)

gee frank, you are so cheap, only 2c.

but you are right i have found the A2 blade much more sensible and sensitive, but then as said before, i'm only an amateur.

paul :lol:


----------



## Alf (31 Oct 2005)

engineer one":1hz1hkjv said:


> A2 blade much more sensible and sensitive


So you'd let it go to the shops by itself but it has a tendency to cry if you criticise it? 

I honestly don't know what that means. :? 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## ydb1md (31 Oct 2005)

Alf":2hmm6f7s said:


> engineer one":2hmm6f7s said:
> 
> 
> > A2 blade much more sensible and sensitive
> ...



It's the kind of plane blade you can bring home to Ma. :wink:


----------



## engineer one (31 Oct 2005)

so you think i am showing the wrong macho side alf??
actually what i meant is that the A2 could be taken home to mum,
but seriously, you can fettle it and then leave for a lot of work
before it need re fettling. seems good to me.
paul :lol:


----------



## Rob Lee (31 Oct 2005)

Hi Andy - 

Good as A2 is - I personally prefer the HCS version of the apron plane... it's fast to sharpen, and the apron plane just doesn't plane as many feet as other planes.... so edge retention isn't usually an issue.

To each his (or her) own... 

Cheers - 

Rob


----------



## LyNx (3 Nov 2005)

Thanks for the input people. I have just ordered the A2 apron, which will have the be wrapped up until christmas.

One more question. Not because it's called an APRON plane but where can i purchase a workshop apron from. I had one many years ago that served well and i would like to get another.

So this is plane no.1 of the veritas collection :lol: 

Andy


----------



## llangatwgnedd (3 Nov 2005)

> So this is plane no.1 of the veritas collection



Ho Ho, It want stop there my third purchase of a LV plane in a year will be a week today  

The sole of a *bus* go swish swish
all day long


----------



## Philly (3 Nov 2005)

Lynx
B+Q do a cotton apron, about a tenner. I,m on my third....... :roll: 

SP
They are definitely addictive! :lol: 
Cheers
Philly  
Now wheres that BUT


----------



## Alf (3 Nov 2005)

Andy,

I have one of Axminster's "new style" aprons, which they helpfully don't explain on the website. ](*,) It has straps that cross your back and then tie at the waist, so there's no weight on the back of your neck, which I find really helpful. Trouble is I don't much like having "Axminster Power Tool Centre" across my front; shouldn't they be paying advertising rates? :lol: Good strong material too; lasts for ages, unlike some of the cheaper aprons available now. For really mucky jobs I use my grandfather's cheap cotton apron which must be all of 40 years old, and it's just fine! They don't make 'em like they used to... 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Adam (3 Nov 2005)

I took the plunge and ordered a leather apron - partly 'cos I have an oxy-acetelyne welding setup so like the heat protection. Its much more durable - and provides a small amount of protection if you have a kick-back / slip with a sharp chisel etc.

Not cheap at £40, but if Philly pays £10 a pop for disposal versions I reckon its a bargain!







Adam


----------



## Anonymous (5 Nov 2005)

A2. no question

Who actually enjoys sharpening blades then???


----------



## Chris Knight (5 Nov 2005)

Tony":6jxklma6 said:


> A2. no question
> 
> Who actually enjoys sharpening blades then???



Not me , which is why I prefer HCS!

Seriously, I find it a lot easier to sharpen and generally I can get sharper edges which last long enough. A2 lasts longer but not long enough to be worth the hassle to me.


----------



## Alf (5 Nov 2005)

Wot he said. Pesky A2 has given more grief than I can bear to contemplate; who's silly idea was it anyway?* ](*,) 

Cheers, Alf

*I believe LV claims it for North America, but I have a feeling I'd read Karl Holtey started the rot. Well KH can be forgiven; it's not like his blades were ever going to be troubling me by their presence... :lol:


----------



## Philly (5 Nov 2005)

Sharpening is no big deal in my workshop-I keep my set-up ready to go so if I need a quick sharpen it only takes a minute.
Those waterstones sort out A2 quickly and easily-what are you lot using?? :? 
Philly


----------



## MikeW (5 Nov 2005)

Philly":1plpb9vx said:


> Sharpening is no big deal in my workshop-I keep my set-up ready to go so if I need a quick sharpen it only takes a minute.
> Those waterstones sort out A2 quickly and easily-what are you lot using?? :? Philly


I prefer HC blades like some of the others. They do hone more quickly while working than A2, where I have to take more strokes.

That said, I use Shaptons in the main, a 2000 grit while working. Sometimes it's a 4000 grit King waterstone I have setting on the bench instead (if the Shaptons are in the house).

If I need to correct or change a bevel angle drastically, I use the Tormek followed by the stones. 

Usually do honing freehand--which is why I regrind occasionally  Sometimes I simply use the MK.II to change bevel angles or correct an edge tool's geometry. I almost always use the MK.II to camber. Of course, the MK.II roller I cambered helps that task. :wink: 

Take care. Mike


----------



## llangatwgnedd (5 Nov 2005)

Adam":2gi7astw said:


> I took the plunge and ordered a leather apron - partly 'cos I have an oxy-acetelyne welding setup so like the heat protection. Its much more durable - and provides a small amount of protection if you have a kick-back / slip with a sharp chisel etc.
> 
> Not cheap at £40, but if Philly pays £10 a pop for disposal versions I reckon its a bargain!
> 
> ...



Where did you purchase the apron from Adam ?


----------



## Frank D. (5 Nov 2005)

I've managed to speed up sharpening a lot (most of my blades are A2) by adopting Charlesworth's method of three bevels. I do the first bevel on my grinder, then the second and third on my stones. This also helps because I'm going through an oil stone phase right now, they obviously don't cut as fast as water stones.


----------



## MikeW (5 Nov 2005)

Frank D.":35wzknb1 said:


> I've managed to speed up sharpening a lot (most of my blades are A2) by adopting Charlesworth's method of three bevels. I do the first bevel on my grinder, then the second and third on my stones.


This is a good tip and does speed things up incredibly. Whereas I don't use something like a ruler, I do raise the back up a skosh on BD plane blades and hone it.


Frank D.":35wzknb1 said:


> This also helps because I'm going through an oil stone phase right now, they obviously don't cut as fast as water stones.


Really? I didn't know that. :twisted: 

Mike "Running for cover" Wenzloff


----------



## LyNx (5 Nov 2005)

"Charlesworth's method of three bevels" - what is this method

Andy


----------



## MikeW (5 Nov 2005)

LyNx":2j40v49h said:


> "Charlesworth's method of three bevels" - what is this method
> Andy


Hi Andy,

Say you have a plane blade from a bevel down Stanley to sharpen. First, the primary bevel would be ground on a power grinder or by hand (using a guide would ensure accuracy) of 25 degrees. Next, a secondary bevel would be honed on the same side of the blade at 30 degrees.

Lastly, a ruler (which is what Charlesworth uses) is laid on one long edge of the stone (down the length of the stone), and the blade back placed upon the ruler so the blade's sharp edge is on the other side of the stone. This raises the back of the blade a couple degrees or so. The blade is moved back and forth across the ruler so the edge of the blade is given what is called a back bevel.

Doing this is one method of foregoing flatten the back of a plane blade. Not much metal is taken off the back, maybe .5 to 1 mm at most over time.

Take care, Mike


----------



## Frank D. (5 Nov 2005)

That's not quite what I was referring to Mike, what you describe would be on my blades the quadruple bevel technique. 
What I do is grind a primary bevel of 25° (if I remember correctly DC grinds it at 23°). Then I grind a very small bevel at 30°. Finally, I hone a micro bevel at 33°. This way, when the edge is dull I just have to make the second bevel--which is already very small--a little bigger, then rehone the microbevel. I can get 5 or six sharpenings (at least) before the second bevel gets to about 1/3-1/2 the total width of the bevel, at which point I regrind the primary bevel and start over again. There's so little metal to take off when I sharpen, it really does only take a few minutes per blade. And I don't have to use the grinder each time I sharpen.
David posted his technique somewhere on this forum, maybe Alf remembers where it is... (sorry Alf, I feel like a typical male who always asks his wife where the X is...).
You really should give those oil stones a try Mike.


----------



## engineer one (6 Nov 2005)

dc's method was published earlier this year in the american mag
popular woodworking. sorry cant remember what issue, but should be 
available on their web site. sorry don't know where that is in my pile of old magazines.
:twisted: 
paul


----------



## Frank D. (6 Nov 2005)

Paul,
Did Charlesworth talk about the three bevels on one side of the blade? As far as I recall he just gave his truler trick and a different way to get a camber with tape. I could be wrong, I guess I'm thinking out loud. I remember reading DC's post here not too long ago. I laughed at first as most ignorant people do to good ideas, then its usefulness sunk in and now I have adopted it. I really don't remember seeing it anywhere else before here.
FWIW (not much),


----------



## Alf (6 Nov 2005)

Frank D.":197q7c6u said:


> David posted his technique somewhere on this forum, maybe Alf remembers where it is... (sorry Alf, I feel like a typical male who always asks his wife where the X is...).


:lol: 

Sorry, Frank; no dice. I've been through all DC's posts and can't find it here. But I did find it a couple of times on Wood Central, so that's presumably where you picked it up. 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## ydb1md (6 Nov 2005)

Frank D.":2jdsauxb said:


> Paul,
> Did Charlesworth talk about the three bevels on one side of the blade? As far as I recall he just gave his truler trick and a different way to get a camber with tape. FWIW (not much),



Frank, are you looking for the ruler trick post or the tape / camber trick?


----------



## Adam (6 Nov 2005)

Sawdust Producer":1ml9scvv said:


> Adam":1ml9scvv said:
> 
> 
> > I took the plunge and ordered a leather apron - partly 'cos I have an oxy-acetelyne welding setup so like the heat protection. Its much more durable - and provides a small amount of protection if you have a kick-back / slip with a sharp chisel etc.
> ...



Rutlands I think.

Adam


----------



## Philly (6 Nov 2005)

Adam":3ffbmeva said:


> Rutlands I think.





You think?? :lol: 
Philly :wink:


----------



## Waka (6 Nov 2005)

Philly":1ygb7x9e said:


> Adam":1ygb7x9e said:
> 
> 
> > Rutlands I think.
> ...



Axminster, and I don't think, well not very often. :wink: :wink:


----------



## Alf (6 Nov 2005)

I've given up thinking but I do recall reading somewhere that leather aprons can cause staining or discolouration to your clothes beneath. Any evidence of that Adam? Or don't you wear pristine white shirts in the workshop? 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Adam (6 Nov 2005)

Alf":198g8s2w said:


> I've given up thinking but I do recall reading somewhere that leather aprons can cause staining or discolouration to your clothes beneath. Any evidence of that Adam? Or don't you wear pristine white shirts in the workshop?
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Unfortunately, my standard "workshop" clothes are black jeans, and navy blue jumper so its pretty unlikely I'd notice. :roll: In fact even if I was wearing pristine whites I very much doubt I'd notice.  

Adam


----------



## Frank D. (6 Nov 2005)

ydb1md":2goptohn said:


> Frank, are you looking for the ruler trick post or the tape / camber trick?


Thanks Dave, I have it. I usually make a point of getting whatever Charlesworth writes. He's had more influence on me than any other single writer.


----------



## Philly (11 Nov 2005)

Adam
You pushed me to it!
Yes, Apron envy! :twisted: 
Check this out..........




Yes, it the new Tormek Apron. Pockets for pencils, calipers, phone, you name it! It has a real nice strap/height adjust thing going on too. And do you know the best?? (bet the leather one hasn't got this :lol: )














Yes, it has a velcro attachement so you don't have to take it off when you need, you know, to go. :lol: 
Many thanks to Martin at Brimarc-you sense of humour is as good as your service! :lol: 
Cheers
Philly  

P.s. He put me up to it, Adam. Honest!


----------



## ydb1md (11 Nov 2005)

Philly":ewlkdzel said:


> Check this out..........Yes, it the new Tormek Apron. Philly



A Tormek apron?! Does it cost twice as much as anything that's comparable? :lol: 

I do like the velcro jobbie though -- very thoughtful. I'm thinking of installing a urinal in the shop just so I won't have to walk 30 feet to the loo. So inconvenient . . . :roll:


----------



## ydb1md (11 Nov 2005)

Philly, I see that your plane cabinet is full *AND *you have two planes sitting on your bench. What're you going to do? :wink:


----------



## Philly (11 Nov 2005)

Dave
Don't even go there with the plane thing :roll: :lol: 
Philly :wink:


----------



## LyNx (11 Nov 2005)

nice 1 philly, i did browse over your site this afternoon and did wonder whats those two photos were on about :lol: :lol: 

That looks the job i'm after, do they have it in medium

Andy


----------



## Anonymous (11 Nov 2005)

ydb1md":e91bgeau said:


> I do like the velcro jobbie though -- very thoughtful. I'm thinking of installing a urinal in the shop just so I won't have to walk 30 feet to the loo. So inconvenient . . . :roll:



You do have a bucket of files to sharpen, don't you? :lol:


----------



## Frank D. (12 Nov 2005)

LyNx":2vv8ei7v said:


> That looks the job i'm after, do they have it in medium


That's the one with the velcro in the middle. :lol:


----------



## Alf (12 Nov 2005)

Philly":38vlyp2m said:


> Tormek Apron.


Oh, good grief... ](*,)

Cheers, Alf


----------

