# Saws - don't go this low!



## AndyT (6 Nov 2013)

I realise that in my public-spirited research into cheap chisels, I may have given the impression that I was recommending cheap tools (by which I mean tools made now to sell at a low price, not bargains where the seller let something go for a fraction of its value.)

Time for a corrective!

I invested another whole English pound of my own money and bought this:







I felt a bit dirty buying it, but nobody was looking and I was doing it for your benefit.

I hesitate to call it a saw. It says 'saw' on the packaging and looks like one from a distance, but I look like Tom Cruise if the distance is great enough...

What do you get? A strip of unidentified metal to which a magnet will stick, covered in varnish, with a lumpy bit on one end. And one edge of the metal is a bit rough:






I've not seen teeth like that before. The rake angle is 10° which is a bit steep for a rip and too shallow for a crosscut. The real stroke of originality though is that the included angle between the teeth does not slavishly follow hundreds of years of sawmaking but strikes out in a new direction of its own - it's 45°.

The teeth have been stamped out from the blank, but the clever designers have saved the trouble and expense of sharpening them at all:






though they have followed tradition and bent some of them out to one side:






They have also included a handy angle marker on the handle:






but UK readers should note that this is marked in Chinese degrees, and the conversion rule is that 90° Chinese = 95° rest of the world. (Don't get misled by that!)

But frankly, the whole concept of right angles becomes boringly irrelevant once you start to use this "tool". 

Now I should point out that I can use a saw. New readers may get the impression that I just buy cheap rubbish and sharpen it, but that's not true. So this is what happened when I put a bit of ordinary softwood in the vice and tried to take a vertical rip cut, 'letting the saw do the work' as my old school woodwork teacher used to say:






And this is what happened on a cross-cut:






(Note too how the saw won't start to cut until it has jumped about enough to chew a little valley for it to rest in.)

So I hope my message is clear. This saw is not a saw. It really is beyond hope. I am not going to waste a file trying to improve it, even though its teeth have not been hardened, so could be sharpened. I have already spent five minutes taking the photos and a bit longer typing this up.

So, be warned, anyone hoping to fill a toolbox cheaply - do not buy this. Spend a few quid more and get one of the remarkably good hardpoint saws that are widely available, with teeth that are properly shaped and set. 

Is that clear? ;-)


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## Racers (6 Nov 2013)

That's a lot of scrapers for a pound!

Pete


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## nev (6 Nov 2013)

=D> 
great review.


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## MMUK (6 Nov 2013)

Nice one :lol:


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## Graham Orm (6 Nov 2013)

Good review, the blade guard shown in picture 1 has to be worth 50p!

Sadly.....somewhere there will be someone using one of these cutting for ever in circles blaming himself and never trying it again.

If nothing else a great demonstration of badly set teeth.


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## Jacob (6 Nov 2013)

Sharpen and set and you probably have a usable saw, but good old ones are dirt cheap anyway.
It used to be normal to have to sharpen and set a new saw. Ready from the box is for beginners!


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

I dropped into a cycling forum for a while recently as I was looking to buy a bike. They kept mentioning BSO...I had no idea what they were talking about, but it was certainly not complimentary. I dug around a little longer and discovered that BSO stands for Bike Shaped Object...something that looks very like a bike without actually being able to perform the functions of a bike.

I suggest what we have here is a SSO.


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## Corneel (6 Nov 2013)

This is a fascinating bit of research you are doing Andy. As a real handsaw snob, I could have told you so beforehand. :mrgreen:


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2013)

Corneel":370pyw6w said:


> This is a fascinating bit of research you are doing Andy. As a real handsaw snob, I could have told you so beforehand. :mrgreen:



Ok - but I'm stopping now - perhaps you'd like to try the hacksaw from the same shop - I think I already know whether it would cut anything harder than mud!


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

More!


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

My father in law loves pound shops...he gave me a set of masonry drill bits once. About six months later I was putting a shelf up and I needed a drill bit...couldn't find my normal ones, so I gave those pound land ones a go. It looked lovely...even had a bit of red paint on the end and everything. Anyway, I started drilling...the bit immediately bent at right angles...whizzed around in a threatening manner, then flew off across the room.

I threw the rest in the bin. Still not sure if it was an assassination plot...


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## MMUK (6 Nov 2013)

Hmmmmm. Wonder if the Poundshop does circular saw blades :twisted: :wink:


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## Richard T (6 Nov 2013)

If you measure those cuts you made in Chinese degrees Andy they might be square.


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

MMUK":1wufez3k said:


> Hmmmmm. Wonder if the Poundshop does circular saw blades :twisted: :wink:



They do, but mysteriously, nobody ever returns to complain about them!


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## Sawyer (6 Nov 2013)

This fails the most basic test of UK consumer legislation: Sale of Goods Act, s.14 because it is not 'fit for purpose'. I should return it to the retailer and ask for your £1 back. If enough people did this, they'd have to take notice and stop defrauding people out of pound coins.

Even £1 is not cheap for an article which is utterly useless.


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## rspsteve (6 Nov 2013)

I cant saw in a straight line so does this mean I now can if I use this "saw" ?

Steve


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## MMUK (6 Nov 2013)

rspsteve":274l5l99 said:


> I cant saw in a straight line so does this mean I now can if I use this "saw" ?
> 
> Steve




That depends on whether you veer off to the left or right :lol:


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## MickCheese (6 Nov 2013)

Sawyer":ygffrade said:


> This fails the most basic test of UK consumer legislation: Sale of Goods Act, s.14 because it is not 'fit for purpose'. I should return it to the retailer and ask for your £1 back. If enough people did this, they'd have to take notice and stop defrauding people out of pound coins.
> 
> Even £1 is not cheap for an article which is utterly useless.



I would pay a pound for the laugh I have had reading the review. 

Well done. We need more.  

Mick


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## mind_the_goat (6 Nov 2013)

Thanks for you sacrifice in conducting this dangerous research on our behalf. I trust you were wearing appropriate safety equipment and had suitable guards in place while performing these tests, and I hope afore mentioned equipment was not purchased from the same supplier as the SSO.

If you need funds to continue your research I suggest you try a crowd funding campaign, I would willingly double you investment by donating a pound towards the project.


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

Plenty more to choose from...

http://www.poundland.co.uk/leisure-and-entertainment/diy/tools


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## Corneel (6 Nov 2013)

Some of my tests of cheap stuff:

Aldi one hand clamps. Each one of the set broke almost immediately.

Silverline titanium coated forstner bits. They were so dull, they didn't even drill in pine. After sharpening they work pretty well, allthough the centrepoint isn't very well centered. So not usefull for very accurate holes.


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## MIGNAL (6 Nov 2013)

Give me an hour with that saw and I'll turn it into a LN killer.


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## mseries (6 Nov 2013)

I sometimes make bicycle wheels, the guide I use recommended making ones own nipple driver (really) from a cheap screw driver. The device is a screw driver with a nick in the middle of the blade so that the driver stops turing the nipple when it's on the spoke by a certain amount (the depth of the nick). A cheap screw driver is recommended so the nick can be cut/filed easily. I got a set of five for a pound or two from Poundland and the ones that I haven't modified are OK for occasional household screwing duties.


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

Corneel":2885qf44 said:


> Some of my tests of cheap stuff:
> 
> Aldi one hand clamps. Each one of the set broke almost immediately.
> 
> Silverline titanium coated forstner bits. They were so dull, they didn't even drill in pine. After sharpening they work pretty well, allthough the centrepoint isn't very well centered. So not usefull for very accurate holes.



What is the sound of one hand clamping? 

Mine sounds like this....


$%^$^%<$%^$< thing...stuck a...<^#<...gain!

I have those Aldi ratchet clamps


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## mseries (6 Nov 2013)

I had a couple of cheap one handed ratchet clamps that I bought when I was starting out. They used to spring loose when trying to clamp them up tight and really hurt my hand. I haven't used them for while, not sure if I have binned them or not (probably not, I rarely bin stuff)


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2013)

MIGNAL":3hgzntyx said:


> Give me an hour with that saw and I'll turn it into a LN killer.



Go on then!

It's not worth the postage for me to send you this one (which may well get turned into some scrapers) but I'm sure they have poundshops down your way too. I suggest a full wip, with a clock visible in the photos!

(But if you'd rather do this ](*,) I quite understand.)


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## rspsteve (6 Nov 2013)

MIGNAL":11vr71yk said:


> Give me an hour with that saw and I'll turn it into a LN killer.



Test him , test him...then do another review.


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

It would be like Scrapheap Challenge...I used to love that programme.


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## MIGNAL (6 Nov 2013)

Crikey! It was a joke!
. . . . but I'm game enough to give it a go, providing it can be resharpened and reset. Won't be for a few weeks though.


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## G S Haydon (6 Nov 2013)

Mignal, go for it, it would be really cool to see that WIP


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## thick_mike (6 Nov 2013)

Hooray!


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2013)

Just checking Mignal - when you say 'LN Killer' you do mean that you will make it cut wood properly, better than a saw from those nice people in Maine, don't you - I'd hate to see the man himself meet a grizzly end by being stabbed with an offensive weapon - and I do mean offensive!


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Nov 2013)

AndyT":1mo6xlr5 said:


> Corneel":1mo6xlr5 said:
> 
> 
> > This is a fascinating bit of research you are doing Andy. As a real handsaw snob, I could have told you so beforehand. :mrgreen:
> ...



A couple of weeks ago I bought a pack of junior hacksaw blades from a very reputable manufacturer (I***n) and they'd just as well have been made of coca cola cans.


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## Cheshirechappie (6 Nov 2013)

phil.p":23bg41ho said:


> AndyT":23bg41ho said:
> 
> 
> > Corneel":23bg41ho said:
> ...



I bought a packet of Eclipse junior hacksaw blades about 20 years ago. There were 10 in the packet. Still got eight left. Just can't wear 'em out.


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2013)

Cheshirechappie":1t97eve1 said:


> I bought a packet of Eclipse junior hacksaw blades about 20 years ago. There were 10 in the packet. Still got eight left. Just can't wear 'em out.



Same here!

Irwin is a brand now owned by Newell Rubbermaid, which is an American conglomerate turning over $120 billion p.a., making a bewildering range of products around the world, from pens to cleaning products to hospital equipment. You'd think one of their 19,000 staff would be responsible for checking the hacksaw blades. ;-)


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## Vann (6 Nov 2013)

thick_mike":1r4hjcak said:


> Plenty more to choose from...
> 
> http://www.poundland.co.uk/leisure-and-[b][color=#BF4040]entertainment[/color][/b]/diy/tools


Fit for purpose I'd say. I was entertained... :mrgreen: 

Thanks for the review Andy.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Nov 2013)

Ironically, I've got Eclipse junior blades in a tool box - but I'm in a rented house between properties, and the tool box is in a container under or behind about two tons of other stuff. There isn't a day goes by without my buying something I've already got. Roll on spring.


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## MARK.B. (7 Nov 2013)

Andy that was probably the best use of £1.00 that i have ever seen, in spending your hard earned pennies you have given entertainment to 569 people (maybe more when you read this) . Now if you can tell me where 569 people can be entertained for such a small amount these days then i will break open my Nat West porcelain piggy and send you a pound coin so you can review the Hacksaw =D> =D> =D>


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## Fergal (1 May 2014)

Hi All

New member, been lurking for a while but had to post a reply on this thread.

Although most of the stuff in pound shops is useless tat, there are a few things worth buying. For example I bought an "exercise mat" which is just a roll of foam rubber about 3mm thick and the size of a sleeping bag. This is useful to put on the bench to stop work sliding around or to cut up and stick on push/sanding blocks. 

A few other things:
Bag of assorted washers
Scrapers
Disposable brushes for glue etc
Large black rubber gloves (I can't bring myself to wear the wife's pink ones, and they're too small)
Wire wool
Disposable utility knives
Glue (spray & super)
Glass cleaner (as recommended by Paul Sellers for sharpening)

Next time you're in a pound shop, go and give a pair of pliers a squeeze. See how far you can bend 'em...

Fergal


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## Phil Pascoe (1 May 2014)

phil.p":3vbr0iod said:


> Ironically, I've got Eclipse junior blades in a tool box - but I'm in a rented house between properties, and the tool box is in a container under or behind about two tons of other stuff. There isn't a day goes by without my buying something I've already got. Roll on spring.



I've just come across this. What a difference six months makes - I'd love the chance to buy another right leg.


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## rafezetter (1 May 2014)

Racers":2x5sfm1u said:


> That's a lot of scrapers for a pound!
> 
> Pete



That's exactly what I was thinking, or marking tool blades or something - might be worth trying to see if scrapers or other usable things can be made from the steel.

@ Andy - great review - chinese 90 gave me a chuckle.


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## Racers (1 May 2014)

I made a load from a pound shop saw, they work very well.

Found the photo.





Pete


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## Woodchips2 (2 May 2014)

I think this review could be misleading, it's obviously a butter saw for those who like a decent amount on their toast and not designed for cutting wood :lol: 

Regards Keith


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## Dovetaildave (2 May 2014)

AndyT":83e4lokp said:


> Just checking Mignal - when you say 'LN Killer' you do mean that you will make it cut wood properly, better than a saw from those nice people in Maine, don't you - I'd hate to see the man himself meet a grizzly end by being stabbed with an offensive weapon - and I do mean offensive!



The guys from Main may send round a _killer_ should you beat their offerings by _undercutting_ their prices.

The Chinese also measure in "_Ping_"....the same sound it would make as it hits the edge of the dustbin.

Trading places saw Dan Acroyds life changed forever for a $1..............Excellent work Andy. :lol:


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