# Cutting a Donkey's Ear



## Smudger (27 Oct 2009)

I tried making a box this week - it generally worked OK but the mitred corners are slightly open. I cut them using a mitre box (Stanley one:






The cuts were OK, but wandered slightly. I tried to clean them up, but my shooting board doesn't have either a Donkey's ear or a bird house, so I had to do it freehand, which doesn't really work. So I need to make one. I am using DC's plans from the Lee Nielsen website.

Question - how do I cut the DE or BH? I have access to a decent sliding mitre saw, can I do that, or do I need to do it by hand for extra accuracy? In which case I am back with the same problem...

Or do I just borrow someone else's to make mine?

Edited to eradicate Chimp typing...


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## wizer (27 Oct 2009)

This is the main reason I ran mine through the bandsaw a few times. It's chicken egg. You need an accurate shooting board to make an accurate shooting board. I wish someone in the Uk would make these for sale!


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## Smudger (27 Oct 2009)

Emir used to make them, but I've never seen one for sale.

My shooting board was made by the LCC woodworking department.


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## Paul Chapman (27 Oct 2009)

The donkey's ear attachments that Woodbloke and Newt made were the best, in my view - maybe they'll post their pictures again.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (27 Oct 2009)

Paul Chapman":126oll8h said:


> The donkey's ear attachments that Woodbloke and Newt made were the best, in my view - maybe they'll post their pictures again.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul


 
Here's a pic of Pete's (Newt) original board: 






complete with the Donkey's Ear shoot that sits on top of the main 'shoot. This design is so good (every part is adjustable) that I copied it and made one for myself and also for Waka. The hold down toggle clamp secures it to the board and there's pin (not shown) underneath on the other side - Rob


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## Smudger (27 Oct 2009)

So, instead of trying to cut a perfect 45º in a solid block of timber, it is made up of 5 pieces, the angles being much easier to cut. Brilliant! 

What is the adjustment on the 45º fence for?

That seems a lot more doable, but I'll have to wait a couple of weeks - I'm on a plank raid to France next week (€7.48 for 10m of floorboards - very variable quality but fine for French rustic stuff), then Fireworks, D&M show and Remembrance Sunday...


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## Paul Chapman (28 Oct 2009)

Smudger":3nha1r4y said:


> What is the adjustment on the 45º fence for?



That fence needs to be at 90 degrees to the base, so if you make the top hole over size, you can slacken off the wing nut and adjust it to get it exact.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (28 Oct 2009)

wizer":865ssu5p said:


> This is the main reason I ran mine through the bandsaw a few times. It's chicken egg. You need an accurate shooting board to make an accurate shooting board.



Not true.

As long as you can take adjustment shavings, you simply cut a (scrap) test piece, measure it, and tweak.

BugBear


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## Smudger (28 Oct 2009)

I was thinking of using a solid block - which I think would be tricky to get right. The idea of using cut timber which I can mark out seems much easier.

Another point - my shooting board is clamped in the front vice, so I work along the bench, whereas DC's is like a bench hook so he works across the bench. Which looks like it might be more comfortable. Any opinions?


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## Paul Chapman (28 Oct 2009)

Smudger":26bgv4td said:


> Another point - my shooting board is clamped in the front vice, so I work along the bench, whereas DC's is like a bench hook so he works across the bench. Which looks like it might be more comfortable. Any opinions?



It's always easier if you can stand behind the shooting board rather than at the side of it. Depends how wide your bench is and whether it's against a wall - you might not have enough room to plane across the bench without the plane hitting the wall. Another option, which I use, is to clamp it between the end vice and a bench dog so that I can stand at the end of the bench.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul

PS I made a couple of really simple 45 degree shooting boards recently to do some picture frames - I'll post some pics later.


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## Alf (28 Oct 2009)

If you're not confident you can make it _accurate_, make it _adjustable_. :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Boz62 (28 Oct 2009)

I've recently made my first shooting board and made it bench hook style. So I stand behind it push the No 4 away from me. Don't even need to clamp it. Works well. Another of those accessories that I bodged away without for years, but it has now taken me another large step forward .

Boz


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## wizer (28 Oct 2009)

Remember what Steve Maskery did? He skewed the hook so that you shoot diagonally across the bench. That give you more length if your workbench is up against a wall.


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## newt (28 Oct 2009)

More pics, note the pivot pin on the two attachments, and the hole in the top left hand corner of the basic board which recieves the pivot pin.


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## Smudger (28 Oct 2009)

Alf":3o28cp09 said:


> If you're not confident you can make it _accurate_, make it _adjustable_. :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



The voice of experience/genius!

Thanks, Pete. It's all becoming a bit clearer. I really like the adjustability as that will (per Alf) solve a lot of problems. I think I'll use solid wood, though. Has anyone thought of a corrugated running board? Just an idea.


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## woodbloke (28 Oct 2009)

Smudger":23jx9gom said:


> Has anyone thought of a corrugated running board? Just an idea.


The one in all the pics _has_ a corrugated running board..a Tesco's chopping board that's slightly dimpled...all bases have been covered :wink: - Rob


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## Smudger (28 Oct 2009)




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## Paul Chapman (28 Oct 2009)

Smudger":269g9056 said:


> Has anyone thought of a corrugated running board? Just an idea.



Now you're making it complicated :lol: If you look at Pete's, he's stuck (double-sided tape I think) a piece of flexible cutting matt (the type they sell at Tesco's and other supermarkets) on the running board. I've tried his and it makes a significant difference in reducing the friction on the plane. Well worth doing.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Smudger (28 Oct 2009)

I was going to run a beading cutter alon the board - no? Overelaboration?

Perhaps* you're right. Think of all the extra chances for messing it up!





*As in quite certainly, but I ain't admitting it yet!


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## Paul Chapman (28 Oct 2009)

Smudger":1ttyuglz said:


> I was going to run a beading cutter alon the board - no? Overelaboration?



I wouldn't :wink: 

Keep in mind that you sometimes need a left-hand and right-hand shooting board. An example would be when you are using conventional picture frame moulding, which is shaped, so you can't simply turn it over to plane the other end.

You can make one board serve both purposes but I decided to make a matched pair. All very simple. A piece of lipped MDF for the base board; another piece of MDF for the top piece, glued on with a couple of biscuits; and a hardwood fence fitted with countersunk head machine screws , washers and nuts. Drill one or both holes in the fence slightly over size to allow movement to adjust it to *exactly* 45 degrees.






Very quick and easy to make and uncomplicated.

Gloaty plane included just for scale :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Alf (28 Oct 2009)

That old plane? Surprised you have the gall to show such a wreck in public... :wink:

I must admit to some reservations when I see beautifully made bench appliances like shooting boards. To my mind they should be viewed as a disposable item, discarded without a pang when they're past their best. Of course it may be that other people are better at chucking out their hard work than I am.  

Cheers, Alf


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## wizer (28 Oct 2009)

I watched Charlesworth's DVD on this the other day where he states that only thin material should be shot. Something like 10mm maximum. If that's the case, how are you supposed to shoot picture frames or furniture parts?


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## mickthetree (28 Oct 2009)

in case theres anyone else reading this that is not edumacated to such things (like I was until very recently) I recently used bees wax on the side of my plane on my shooting board for the first time.

I'd seen people do it before here and there, but never appreciated just how much easier it becomes when its all waxed up.

Not too much mind, just a bit every time you use it.

I've started using it every time I use my planes now.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Oct 2009)

wizer":2z6l7iwe said:


> I watched Charlesworth's DVD on this the other day where he states that only thin material should be shot. Something like 10mm maximum. If that's the case, how are you supposed to shoot picture frames or furniture parts?



You can certainly shoot stuff thicker than 10mm, Tom. Those pieces of wood I used for the Domino demonstration at Waka's bash were 20mm thick and I'd planed the ends of those on the shooting board the evening before.

As with everything, it depends on the wood, how sharp your plane is, etc., etc. I think it's best to try it out for yourself and see what works.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## graween (29 Oct 2009)

Hi.
Wizer I agree with Paul, you can shoot things bigger than 10 mm.
But it's harder.

My guess about the 10 mm that DC recommends is that when you shoot something bigger , only a slight problem in the setting of the blade, or if the piece if not square or whatever can lead to some problems.

For example, with the hypothesis that evrything is perfectly square (you shooting board, the piece you shoot, the fence, the ramp for the plane, the plane square itslef, ....)
If your blade in the plane is moved only 0.5° from the vertical, here are the distance that might result on your piece if you check with a square on the end (for a given thickness):
10 mm -> 0.087 mm
20 mm -> 0.17 mm
30 mm -> 0.26 mm
40 mm -> 0.35 mm

As you can see if you try to make a picture frame with a shooting board using 40 mm of thickness only a 0.5° of misalignment of the blade leads to a 0.35 gap. Wich is visible by human eye. As if 10 mm was used only 0.08, which with glue and a good finish could be acceptable.

This is the reason why (to my view) that often people do adjust their their shooting board as in the excellent model shown by Paul.
Also you can use some thin shavings or pieces of paper to correct all this. This also is something often raised in the forum, or in other places.

Finally, before shooting the real piece, you also often set up the plane, shooting board, on a test piece. Only once this is done you can go aheahd on the piece you' ll be using in your furniture.

This sounds complicated, but is quite easy, and fast when you do it.

Hope it helps (and also that I remembered my maths corerctly ... hard on the mornings  )

Regards,
Graween.


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## David C (29 Oct 2009)

Shooting gets easier the thinner the stuff.

I am practically certain that I did *not* say 10mm was the limit.

I would be interested to hear what the thickest dimension that people have shot is?

20mm works.

David Charlesworth


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## woodbloke (29 Oct 2009)

David C":2zi2vdlt said:


> Shooting gets easier the thinner the stuff.
> 
> I am practically certain that I did *not* say 10mm was the limit.
> 
> ...


David - I agree, that 20mm would be _easily_ shot in...I might hesitate though if it were something overly hard, in which case 10mm would be much easier - Rob


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## David C (29 Oct 2009)

Rob,

Thanks. Good point about hardness of timber.

Another thought is that once the stuff is over 18mm or even 12 mm thick, it should be perfectly simple to plane it freehand in a vice.

best wishes,
David


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## Smudger (29 Oct 2009)

David - you just don't know what sort of chimpanzee you are dealing with!

I tried that, using a 60½ to get the rough angle and then a 62 to try to refine it. It wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't good enough, leaving a gap of about 0.5mm on the corners when cramped up. That was in softwood.


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## Paul Chapman (29 Oct 2009)

David C":37ir6hri said:


> Another thought is that once the stuff is over 18mm or even 12 mm thick, it should be perfectly simple to plane it freehand in a vice.



Hi David,

I think the length of the piece is also an issue. A piece 18mm thick and, say, 150mm long, would be straight forward to plane in the vice. However, if the piece was only, say, 50mm long there would be little surface for the plane to take a bearing, in which case the shooting board would, I feel, be a better option.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## graween (29 Oct 2009)

Hi guys.

Well I never shot something thicker than around 18-20 mm, because never had a project for that.

So how do you shoot thicker things when the length is short ? I feel it hard to plane even in a vise.

Also here in France I've seen often some massive mitre sliding shooting things like this http://www.gaignard-millon.com/photos/2506gm.jpg , don't really know the name of it in english (sorry for the link, no commercial interest here  )

They were used for a long time.
I'm interested to know how you do.

Thanks.


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## Smudger (29 Oct 2009)

Where can I get one of them babies?


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## David C (29 Oct 2009)

Paul,

Yes absolutely, the shooting board excells for very small and very thin pieces.

David


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## woodbloke (29 Oct 2009)

David C":ndors0b1 said:


> Paul,
> 
> Yes absolutely, the shooting board excells for very small and very thin pieces.
> 
> David


...such as the sides of drawer, which is where it comes into it's own - Rob


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## bugbear (30 Oct 2009)

Smudger":3fb67pc8 said:


> Where can I get one of them babies?



The photograph looks like an Ulmia or similar.

DIY, scanned and hosted by the Sainted Alf

http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwmitrejack.html

DIY from an earlier time,

This was scanned by me, and hosted by Toolemera:

http://toolemera.com/Books%20%26%20Book ... plans.html

(search down for jack)

BugBear


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## wizer (30 Oct 2009)

and also re-created by our very own woodworking superstar

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=33591


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## woodbloke (30 Oct 2009)

Had a 'fone call from Martin who asked me to make him one of these Pete style 'shoots (same as I made for Waka and as shown in the pics) 
Anybody else want one?..it's as easy to make two or three as one. 
PM me if interested - Rob


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## wizer (30 Oct 2009)

nahh not me. :shock:


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## Benchwayze (31 Oct 2009)

Smudger, 

Try the following link for a PDF file.

http://uk.search.yahoo.com/search?rd=r1 ... =yfp-t-702

Choose the second item down. 




Regards
John


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## DaveL (31 Oct 2009)

wizer":233l45bt said:


> nahh not me. :shock:


Do you need to lay down in a darkened room for a couple of hours Tom? :-k


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## wizer (31 Oct 2009)

I think I'd probably benefit from that yeh


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## woodbloke (31 Oct 2009)

Two shoots being made...one for Martin, the other for Tom - Rob


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## wizer (31 Oct 2009)

Looks like the lay down did me good :lol:


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## jlawrence (4 Nov 2009)

Rob, I missed this thread whilst in Paris, any chance you could fit making one more shoot in ?


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## woodbloke (5 Nov 2009)

PM sent - Rob


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## newt (5 Nov 2009)

Rob was at my place the other day and we shot 30mm thick Ash end grain with the LA jack with no problem, with full width shavings.


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## woodbloke (5 Nov 2009)

_Three_ now being made...Martin, Tom and Jon.
Anymore for anymore?...your *very* last chance :lol: :lol: - Rob


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