# Fitting a staircase



## brianhabby (23 Apr 2009)

What's involved in fitting a staircase?

I have a friend who has asked me to fit some stairs into her attic space but I'm not quite sure about this kind of project.

regards

Brian


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## JonnyD (23 Apr 2009)

Are you just fitting or making them as well?

If fitting the top step hooks over and is fastened to the top trimmer joist and the stairs are fastened to the wall through the stringer. If there are half landings or winders you may have to make up some support framework.

Jon


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## joiner_sim (23 Apr 2009)

I have helped fit a straight staircase and a straight with a 90 degree landing/ bend. As already said, top step is fixed to the top trimmer joist and the stairs fastened to the wall through the stringer if there is a wall. You might want to fix it to the floor through the bottom step too. Newel posts fitted and fixe will provide additional strength.


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## OPJ (23 Apr 2009)

Most important thing is to check that it'll fit through the front door after assembly!! :shock: Otherwise, you'll end up removing the door frame and chiselling away lumps of stone! DAMHIKT!!!


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## brianhabby (23 Apr 2009)

Thanks for the quick replies fellas.

At this stage I think I'll be fitting a ready made staircase - if I do it.

The thing that is bothering me about this is cutting the hole in the ceiling/upstairs floor. I'll have to cut away quite a bit of joist to make this hole.

What do I need to be aware of when doing this?

regards

Brian


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## Shultzy (23 Apr 2009)

brianhabby":20s7wnpa said:


> What do I need to be aware of when doing this?



Don't stand in the joist you are cutting :lol: :lol: 

Make sure you fit trimming joists to support any joists you cut, before you cut, as this make everything rigid.


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## joiner_sim (23 Apr 2009)

Structural joists, make sure they are still supported after cutting, and make sure they will be supported in the long term. Pipes, wires the usual.

I'm not an expert on this, just giving a bit of my advice. You may actually get some better help with this sort of topic over n screwfix, as they are mean't to be 1st and 2nd fix, well most of them.


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## JonnyD (23 Apr 2009)

brianhabby":2troc0ja said:


> What do I need to be aware of when doing this?
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian



The ceiling falling on your head :shock: 

You will have to cut away the joists and install a double trimmer all around and hang the cut away joists of these. You may need to prop up the joists as you do this with some acro props it depends on which way the joists run.

Jon


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## head clansman (24 Apr 2009)

Hi Jon 

first are you fitting new stairs or replacing existing ones ? if new, then first who has ordered these stairs did that person know how to measure for the rise and going so the stairs will fit into the space where this person requires them so that they meet safety regulation IE the correct rise to each step and the correct going to each tread plus allowing the correct head height under the bulk head as you go up the stairs so you dont knock your self out .

Do you have to cut away the old ceiling? do you have to put in the new stair well trimmers these need to be supported or tied into an existing wall to support weight of stairs are the joist in the ceiling up to standard or are they the old 4* 2 * which need upgrading ? are they already boarded and are they the same thickness as the top tread etc etc . plus theres lots more . some pics might help hc


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## brianhabby (24 Apr 2009)

As expected there's an awful lot to think about with this job.

There has never been a staircase to this attic so everything about the job is new - new stairs into a new hole. So I will have to cut away the existing ceiling and floor.

As far as I know the stairs have not yet been ordered, so I expect to be starting from scratch.

To give you a little background:

I was originally asked about this some months ago as my friend wants to use the attic space. I said that I could do any work such as studding out walls and fitting door frames etc. but I didn't feel confident fitting the stairs. I therefore suggested she find someone to do this part of the job first.

This she did and he gave her a price of around £600 supply & fit. Unfortunately he got involved in a fight on a night out and finished up killing someone - so he is not available now for about 15 years.

So it has come back to me and I am trying to decide whether or not to do it.

I'll be visiting in a few weeks when I go to fit some garden gates that I am making for her so will have another look then and maybe take some photos.

If the old joists are 4" x 2" what do they need upgrading to to meet spec? New joists would add considerably to her costs I would think. Also if fitting new joists how are they fitted, are they fastened to the old joists & how?

*hc*,

You mention working out for the rise and going - how is this worked out?

Loads of questions I know but I need to get as much info as possible if I decide to go ahead with this.

regards

Brian


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## JonnyD (24 Apr 2009)

Hi Brian

You can download the regs for staircases here(PDF document link)
http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/englan ... 00536.html

It should give you an idea of how to work out the rise and going. The rise will usually be between about 180 and 200mm and the going about 230 - 250mm. 

If you measure the rise first (distance from finished floor to finished floor) if for example it is 2600mm you will have 13 200mm risers. You can then work out the going from that to meet regs and achieve a stair pitch of less than 42 degrees.

As for the joists its hard to advise without seeing some pictures or details

Jon


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

brianhabby":3p372jhi said:


> If the old joists are 4" x 2" what do they need upgrading to to meet spec? New joists would add considerably to her costs I would think. Also if fitting new joists how are they fitted, are they fastened to the old joists & how?
> 
> Brian



:shock: whats the attic going to be used for? sounds like a full scale attic conversion= mega £££££ , building control? 8-[ 

John.


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## head clansman (24 Apr 2009)

hi jon 

well done jon ,that save me a lot of typing .hc


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

I built and fitted these stairs.






not to hard to make, well theres only 3 steps :lol: 

John.


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## JonnyD (24 Apr 2009)

Heres one I have just finished. Solid Maple with Glass Banisters and Maple panelling. Will Post some proper pics once the carpet has been fitted.






Jon


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## Woodcrafts (24 Apr 2009)

You mention studding out walls and fitting door frames etc. which suggests that the loft space is going to be used for more than just storage. The joists will almost certainly need upgrading as the existing ones were probably only designed to carry the ceiling. Don't know what current spec would be - 8 x 2 perhaps? - depends on use and loading requirements. Compliance with building regs may be required for the staircase and any alterations to the loft. 
You may also get help on the Screwfix Builders or Carpenters Forums http://www.screwfix.com/ talk/forum


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## Digit (24 Apr 2009)

I built one years ago, never again!

Roy.


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## joiner_sim (24 Apr 2009)

jhwbigley - not sure if its a reg, but maybe just more sensible....
The door at the top of the stairs should open into the other room not onto the stairs? As you could open the door and fall down them or someone opens the door while you were on the stairs and push you down them? I am aware its a bathroom and only 3 steps though, so guess the chances of injury are minimal.


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

joiner_sim":nd2cpc0x said:


> jhwbigley - not sure if its a reg, but maybe just more sensible....
> The door at the top of the stairs should open into the other room not onto the stairs? As you could open the door and fall down them or someone opens the door while you were on the stairs and push you down them? I am aware its a bathroom and only 3 steps though, so guess the chances of injury are minimal.



I see what mean, but they where adamant that it opened into the bathroom, that door used to be where the radiator is, I chopped out the new door way, well after putting a lintel in, and blocked up the other. there is also another room in that house where the door opens into a lower room, well its a old house, it hasn't even got any foundations :shock: 

John


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## Shadowfax (24 Apr 2009)

jhwbigley":jbo5gfqq said:


> joiner_sim":jbo5gfqq said:
> 
> 
> > jhwbigley - not sure if its a reg, but maybe just more sensible....
> ...


Sorry John ,but that is a good example of why we have Building Regulations. The door and stair configuration does not conform at all and would be considered unlawful (wrong word - I have forgotten the correct one) work. There must be a level landing before the top step even if the door does open into the room. 
I doubt if a regularisation certificate would ever be issued without things being corrected. The most likely time for that to be needed is when or if the house goes on sale unless someone tells Building Control in the meantime!

Lack of space often makes for some interesting alterations!

SF


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

Shadowfax":4vamd1ae said:


> jhwbigley":4vamd1ae said:
> 
> 
> > joiner_sim":4vamd1ae said:
> ...



no need to be sorry SF, your completely right with respects to having a level landing, even shows it in my building contruction handbook. i stayed in a holiday let that had a door right at the top of a narrow, steep staircase, that was fun. but i'm sure theres enought for building control to find before they even get to those steps 
:shock: 

John.


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

Brian, sorry if this has high jacked your thread.

John


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## Shadowfax (24 Apr 2009)

I'm sorry too, Brian.
It was going so well, wasn't it?

SF


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## jhwbigley (24 Apr 2009)

:lol:


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## brianhabby (24 Apr 2009)

No problem hijacking the thread, it's all interesting stuff. Until Simon pointed it out I hadn't even noticed that the door opened the wrong way.

It's also good to see staircases that others have built.

regards

Brian


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