# Form, function or price



## shed9 (8 Mar 2015)

Okay, here goes. The usual question of what tool brand fits best I'm afraid.

I'm about to push the button on finally getting some decent planes. I'm looking to the following;

4.5 Smoothing plane
5.5 Jack plane
7 Jointer plane
Block plane
Trimming plane (often dubbed chisel)
Flat and curved spoke shaves

Now originally my conundrum was whether to get classic kit in the form of original Lie Nielsen or clones and I never really thought to entertain new designs. However I'm now in that classic position of "Veritas or Lie Nielsen". I've discounted the clones as I know I'll always question this purchase.

Veritas is a more modern design but Lie Nielsen is clearly the top of their game, i.e. I can't help feel that the Veritas kit looks more like it's function over form and the Lie Nielsen is firmly rooted in tradition. Don't get me wrong, I get the whole aspect of if it ain't broke, don't fix it but I'm now firmly on the fence here.

I would rather buy once and buy right so cost is not the over riding factor (although I'm not looking to spend for the sake of spending either).

Any users of either and / or both brands that can offer some advice. I appreciate that both are quality products but are there any gotchas in the comparison that people have come across.

All advice appreciated.


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## Racers (8 Mar 2015)

How about Clifton? Quangsheng, second hand Record/Stanley with replacement blades?

I have mostly Records some with thicker blades and a LN 60 1/2, home made spokeshave with a Hock blade or Preston Spokeshaves.

Lots of other options to consider. 

Pete


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## shed9 (8 Mar 2015)

Racers":tsj7udcg said:


> How about Clifton? Quangsheng, second hand Record/Stanley with replacement blades?
> 
> I have mostly Records some with thicker blades and a LN 60 1/2, home made spokeshave with a Hock blade or Preston Spokeshaves.
> 
> ...



Hi Pete, thanks for jumping in. I did look at Quangsheng / Qiangsheng, Clifton, Stanley and Record (new and old). I really have boiled it down to LN or LV at the higher end. I appreciate Clifton is in that bracket but I can't help feel that LN has the edge between the two and they share similar design - that and I've seen some issues with the Cliftons over the years with Q&A.


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## Scouse (8 Mar 2015)

Everyone will give you a different answer to this, and most likely will be evangelical in their conviction in telling you what to buy; just look at the twenty page thread on knockoff tools!

Eight or nine years ago, I replaced my entire professional workshop with LN and never regretted it. That said, I have sold a few LN's on since, either because I didn't use them or I found a few vintage tools that felt a bit better in use, just a personal thing.

But with all that said, I also have a Veritas Low Angle jointer which is very good so I suspect that you'll do well with either brand. I have no experience of Clifton, for the same reason you mentioned, and QS just don't do it for me, although I did put a QS blade in a WS 5 1/2 which was very good.


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## CStanford (8 Mar 2015)

The cutters supplied with L-N are A2. You might love it, then again maybe not. To Lee Valley's credit I believe all the tools you mentioned can be ordered in O1 if you happen to prefer it.


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## Jacob (8 Mar 2015)

LN LV Clifton Chinese it won't make much difference to your woodwork which ones you get. Might as well have one of each. Or buy just one for starters and see if you like it.
5 1/2 does almost everything.
Don't forget to buy some wood!


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## MIGNAL (8 Mar 2015)

Prefer a No.4 smoother to the 4.5 but that's me. 
I suggest: 
A LN No.4
A Clifton 5.5
A Quangsheng 7 (if they do one).
A Veritas Apron Plane. 

That should keep everyone happy! Oh and don't forget to include a wooden Plane. They have their advantages. The ECE horn handled Planes are good (the cheaper one with the wedge, not the expensive Primus rubbish).


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## shed9 (8 Mar 2015)

Just to clarify, I'm not a newbie. I have mostly dealt with power tools / larger machinery and 'got by' with some hand tools. I'm now however moving into more hand built kit, hence the drive to LN or LV. 

I don't have an issue with Chinese kit but it's really not on my radar at the moment. I very much believe in buying once and buying right and feel the Quangshengs will always make me question my purchase.


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## MIGNAL (8 Mar 2015)

Why? I have one of their block Planes. It's jolly good, on a par with my Veritas apron Plane, which is also jolly good. It's as though you think that buying LN will give you superior performance. It won't. It just might make you feel more secure, which is more of a psychological thing.
BTW. I no longer use my Quangsheng Block Plane. Not because it's a bad Plane but because it's heavy. Prefer my lighter crappy Stanley 80's affair - which works well enough.


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## Cheshirechappie (8 Mar 2015)

Might be worth a think about how you intend to use the planes. From your list, I suspect that the 4 1/2 will be dedicated to smoothing duties, and the 7 to try and jointer work, but if the 5 1/2 is intended for true jack or fore plane work - heavy stock removal with a wide-open mouth, well-cambered blade and fairly deep cut - then a 'premium' plane may be a bit OTT. If that's the case, vintage or lower-priced new will serve perfectly adequately, allowing a bit more on the budget for the planes where extra quality counts - accuracy in the try plane, and a really good blade an cap-iron combination together with solidity in the smoother. Whatever you do, your try plane will probably be the most expensive plane you'll ever buy (with the possible exception of a plough), but since the accuracy of a lot of work depends on it, it's worth committing a sizeable chunk of the budget to it. 

With block planes, I've had a Lie-Nielsen low-angle jobby for years, and as you'd expect, it's a lovely plane. However, it has one flaw from my point of view, in that it's a bit too heavy for comfortable single-handed use. A lighter plane, such as a vintage Stanley or Record with a good blade, would not only be a lot cheaper, but would be more versatile and nimble, I think; of the new planes, if the LV block planes are a bit lighter, they may be the better overall option.

On spokeshaves, don't get too hung up on the expensive ones. The beauty of wooden shaves and vintage Stanley/Record is that they're quick to tune up, and buying cheap ones allows you to have a range of bevel-up and bevel-down types which is most useful at times; different woods in different shapes respond to different shaves. Going vintage isn't compulsory, but it's the cheapest way to have a range of three or four different ones to hand.


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## shed9 (8 Mar 2015)

I have a bunch of cheap 'n cheerful planes and based on my experience I prefer the 4.5, 5.5 and 7 sizes. This has what has dictated my choices. Again, I'm not a newbie and know what I'm doing (to an extent). I have an opportunity to treat myself to some decent kit and decided to get some LN or LV planes is all.

I know the Quangsheng planes are decent kit, I'm not a tool snob but they aren't what I'm after. I'm not spending money for the sake of it, just making sure (as much as I can) that I buy the right thing in the first place. I also note the heavy aspect of some block planes, which is one of the reasons I'm looking at LV as well as they supply bolt on handles for them. I don't want any more old / vintage planes as I would rather be using them than fettling them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm listening to the advice and comments here, they are valued but my query is; given a choice between LN and LV, are there any reasons to sway in one particular direction?


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## Paul Chapman (8 Mar 2015)

All of the top-end planes (LN, LV, Clifton) perform equally well and are all well made, so it really comes down to personal preference and which ones feel better in use. I think you should visit a show where you could try out the planes and see which ones you prefer.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## custard (8 Mar 2015)

I used to get all agitated about hand tools. But then I spent a year at a really great workshop; and seeing some of the finest craftsmen and women on the planet making sublime furniture that sells for tens of thousands of pounds, and doing it all with the simplest of tool kits, well that kind of knocked those concerns out of me.

Veritas or LN (or an old Record with a bit of work thrown in), whatever takes your fancy, if you've got the right stuff going on in your head then you can make astonishing pieces with any of them.

By the way, if you've got some basic machinery for the grunt work then 4.5, 5.5, and 7 is at least one bench plane too many! Keeping your workspace clear of superfluous tools is half the battle. So, working on the principle that you'll come to the same conclusion and sell at least one of the three planes, then get LN as they're easier to sell and depreciate less.


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## Mr_P (8 Mar 2015)

Going to a show is a good idea or why not try and join in one of the pass arounds going on at the minute.

Or plan C just buy one of your choice and see how you go before buying 3 or 5 of the same make.

Lots of experts out there to ask but personally I take all with a pinch of salt, since we are all so very different.

I'm 6'2" and love my heavy rider block plane and hated the LN 102 & 03 due to the small size.


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## G S Haydon (8 Mar 2015)

Nice! If I was going to go for this I think I would try and find a show, retailer or UKWS member who is nearest you. Try them yourself. You can read pages of pros and cons, much of what someone prefers will be just that, personal preference. I think Axminster stock both? Anyway enjoy 'em.


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## ali27 (8 Mar 2015)

If money is not an issue, go with Lie Nielsen. They work great and look fantastic. I find
the LV planes lacking beauty to put it nicely. 

I would not chose WR/QS planes unless you have small hands. The handle of the QS planes 
is too small, designed for a 3 fingergrip. I find it ridiculous. Otherwise the planes seem to quite
well made.

The Clifton are very beautiful and well made. Maybe choose the 4.5 Clifton and 5 1/2 LN and 7 LN.

Ali


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Mar 2015)

"The handle of the QS planes 
is too small, designed for a 3 fingergrip."
I thought they all were?


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## Graham Orm (8 Mar 2015)

I have a QS #6 that I simply cannot fault. I also have a few Stanley #5's which I prefer for general use, two 1930's and a 1960's. The best of the three is a mid-60's plastic handled version. It works perfectly.

If you want a good one out of the box spend big bucks. If you want an old one that works as well as an expensive one, buy several, be prepared to do a lot of tuning work, then you can sell on the ones that you don't like.


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## Fat ferret (8 Mar 2015)

I would just go with which ever one you fancy the look of. If you don't fancy the Chinese one that begins with Q you are right not to get it. If you have the money and want to own nice new tools then buy some.

But here's the thing, I don't think you need them. I have never tried any of these expensive planes cause I have my old record no 5 1/2 no 4 and non adjustable block and they work a treat for me. The four was 15 quid the block was a pound and the 5 1/2 was free cause it was broken in the post and I got a refund and then welded and flattened the sole. Just used it to plane some wedge shaped bits of larch for a boardwalk I was making, it's good enough for me. 

Sccaaaaach, that's the noise a sharp plane makes.


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## shed9 (8 Mar 2015)

Thanks for all the advice here, it is appreciated. I'm a bit out in the sticks and no real convenient place for me to try before buy.

I do take on board the sentiment that I don't need a top end plane to achieve a particular end result. This is more about want than need if I'm honest. I want something I'm going to enjoy using and owning.

I'm pretty much decided on a Veritas block and trim plane and their spoke shaves, with the bench and jointers either being Lie Nielsen or the Veritas customisable planes.


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## Peter Sefton (8 Mar 2015)

If your in the Malvern area you are more than welcome to come in and have a play for yourself.
We have Veritas, Clifton and Woodriver in the workshop sorry no LN in the worksop at the moment. If you have your heart set on LN I am fairly sure you won't be disappointed but if you are looking for low angle I feel Veritas can't be beaten. 

Would you be free for the Newark Show you could see them all in one day and then make your mind up.

http://www.nelton.co.uk/midlands-woodwo ... -show.html

Cheers Peter


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## Vann (8 Mar 2015)

Just my tuppence worth...

I suggest you get the LV BUS (err... Bevel Up Smoother) for it's ability to easily change EP. This might be useful for removing rouge tearout during final smoothing. It has a very good reputation.

Make the other two bevel-down because they're just more user friendly.



shed9":2dex1r6m said:


> ...I've seen some issues with the Cliftons over the years with Q&A.


I wouldn't let that put you off Cliftons, they appear to have overcome those issues, and if there is a problem - they're local and have very good after sales service (as do LV & L-N of course).

Cheers, Vann.


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## Mr T (9 Mar 2015)

Ali27 said:


> I would not chose WR/QS planes unless you have small hands. The handle of the QS planes
> is too small, designed for a 3 fingergrip. I find it ridiculous. Otherwise the planes seem to quite
> well made.



I think the reverse is true. I have large hands and always keep my index finger on the frog whichever plane I'm using and find the LN a squeeze for the remaining fingers compared to the LN.


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## Vann (9 Mar 2015)

Mr T":3hppc19n said:


> I have large hands and always keep my index finger on the frog whichever plane I'm using and find the *LN* a squeeze for the remaining fingers compared to the *LN*.


Hmmm. You may need to clarify - I think there's a typo there.

Cheers, Vann.


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## ali27 (9 Mar 2015)

I have a no4 and no6 QS plane. I hate the handle. It's too small. For me
personally it should be an inch taller. It feels like my hand is being pressed
together if I grab the handle with my whole hand. 

I just measured my hand and its 105mm(4 1/4 inch?) at it widest. Not sure if that's
medium or larger, but the QS handle is really uncomfortable to me unless I grab the handle
without using my index finger.

Ali


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## Jacob (9 Mar 2015)

If the OP doesn't know which planes to buy I'd suggest just buying one: a 5 1/2, ideally an old Record. 
Then in a year or so after putting in a lot of hours actually using it, think of buying another - but only if the need is really obvious. The next would most likely be a block plane.
If you have too many too soon, it can stunt your development - repeatedly swapping between planes or buying new ones, rather than developing a good technique with just one.
I did the same many years ago: 5 1/2, 7, 4 1/2. Never used the 4 1/2 sold it years later. Hardly used the 7 - there's not much it can do which can't be done with a 5 1/2. Had to buy a block plane and a shoulder plane (because I _needed_ them!)
Have since acquired a rather pointless collection of odds and ends which hardly get used. One thing which is definitely a complete waste of money is having one of each number - there is so little difference between adjacent ones.

Save yer dosh - buy some wood.


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## bertikus_maximus (9 Mar 2015)

Interesting that you haven't thought about getting a router plane? These are incredibly useful tools - I recently managed to get hold of a vintage Stanley version and have found it fantastic. Whilst a powered router might be less effort (relatively speaking), I find that no matter how I use it, I sometimes end up with less than satisfactory results. It just seems like a faff having to get everything set up and then all the dust and noise is a bit annoying too. 

With regards the wider discussion, I've only ever owned second hand planes (a Record 4, a Record war finish 5, a 1910 Stanley 7) so can't comment on how good a brand spanking new LN or Vertias plane is but I do own a Veritas dovetail saw and you can tell a lot of love and attention went into designing this tool. If Veritas carry that over to their other tools, then I'd imagine their planes are very good. That said, I personally prefer the traditional appearance and don't like the way the handles on Vertias planes have been designed. They look like they'd be a bit flimsy. 

A final comment: it was mentioned that you shouldn't discount wooden planes. I think metal planes are the way to go except for the trusty rebate plane. I owned a metal rebate plane once. I hated it. For cross grain work it was hopeless. If you can find one, get hold of a wooden fillister plane. You won't be disappointed! (You can also have a lot of fun with wooden beading planes).


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## yetloh (9 Mar 2015)

If it's a choice between LN and Veritas I would go with the latter simply on the basis that I would prefer to buy from a company that innovates rather than just copies. The new customising options lokk likely to solve one of my few criticisms of Veritas - that the handles don't suit everyone. The clincher for me is that they now offer the PMVII steel for all their planes- it is streets ahead of 02 - easy to sharpen, really fine very long lasting edge, and doesn't crumble like some A2.

I don't know the Veritas spokeshaves but I have the Woodjoy ones and they are superb. Very easy to sharpen because the blades have no obstructive projections.

Jim


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## MIGNAL (9 Mar 2015)

bertikus_maximus":1kzewtos said:


> A final comment: it was mentioned that you shouldn't discount wooden planes. I think metal planes are the way to go except for the trusty rebate plane. I owned a metal rebate plane once. I hated it. For cross grain work it was hopeless. If you can find one, get hold of a wooden fillister plane. You won't be disappointed! (You can also have a lot of fun with wooden beading planes).



You've missed the one advantage of the wooden Jack/ Smoother etc. 
Weight or rather the lack of it. On medium density hardwoods I can do a lot more planing than I can with any metal Plane, it's quicker and less tiring. Not much of a factor if you only plane for 5 minutes but becomes very apparent if you have a fair amount to do. 
I use a wooden Jack even on Ebony, quite simply because it's faster and less tiring to lop off 2 or 3 mm's with the wooden Plane than it is with my metal No. 5. 1/2. 
That's the problem with searching for the 'best plane'. There isn't one. It's all dependent on use. I'm not stating that a wooden Plane will result in the best finished surface but that last 5% can be saved for the dedicated smoother.


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## Mr_P (9 Mar 2015)

MIGNAL":1yngslrv said:


> I use a wooden Jack even on Ebony, quite simply because it's faster and less tiring



:shock: :shock: :shock: 

Think I'd use my best Chariot, if I had any ebony


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## ali27 (9 Mar 2015)

yetloh":188mhyou said:


> If it's a choice between LN and Veritas I would go with the latter simply on the basis that I would prefer to buy from a company that innovates rather than just copies. The new customising options lokk likely to solve one of my few criticisms of Veritas - that the handles don't suit everyone. The clincher for me is that they now offer the PMVII steel for all their planes- it is streets ahead of 02 - easy to sharpen, really fine very long lasting edge, and doesn't crumble like some A2.
> 
> I don't know the Veritas spokeshaves but I have the Woodjoy ones and they are superb. Very easy to sharpen because the blades have no obstructive projections.
> 
> Jim



I think you made a good point about the innovation argument. I still would not buy the Veritas for the simple
fact that their planes just don't look nice. They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. Just


Ali


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## bugbear (9 Mar 2015)

MIGNAL":287jj978 said:


> That's the problem with searching for the 'best plane'. There isn't one. It's all dependent on use.



That's why you need "more than one"  

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (9 Mar 2015)

. . . And a Wooden one at that. Let's face it, given that they can be had for a few quid it's a no brainer, especially considering the total bill that the OP is looking at - some £1,500 ?


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## shed9 (9 Mar 2015)

Thanks again for the input people.

Peter, appreciate the offer to Malvern. I keep meaning to come in and will one day - just need to find the time.

Just to confirm, my issue is not what planes to buy, but which vendor. I have planes, some old, some new and even some wooden and my preferences are the ones listed in the original post. Just to reiterate, I'm not a newbie asking what tools do I need. I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box. I'm looking for a luxury plane that I will enjoy using and owning, hence the toss up between LN and LV.

I agree with the comments regarding the innovation of Veritas which is why I am considering them as well. I know the Lie Nielsen are superb classic planes but they are just copies (albeit good ones).

I'm not looking to save cash by buying cheap and doing up (I have that already), I want some top end kit. And yes I know you can get away with using cheaper but where's the fun in that?

Oh and Jacob, I have wood and experience using it.


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## Jacob (9 Mar 2015)

ali27":uupgtj11 said:


> ..........They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. ....
> 
> 
> Ali


 If it matters to you could work on the aesthetics yourself. Why leave it to them?
You could paint them all different colours _of your choice_, patterns and go-faster stripes, knit them fair isle pattern socks etc


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## Jacob (9 Mar 2015)

shed9":25byrjtw said:


> ....... And yes I know you can get away with using cheaper but where's the fun in that?.....


Well personally I find it very pleasing and satisfying to get good results from some very ordinary kit. There's no mystery to it, its down to sharpening - get that right and the rest of the plane hardly matters (within reason). I've got a Clifton which looks nice and is mechanically perfect, much more so than various old Records etc, but doesn't give much in terms of value for money. Every time I look at it I think about ebay!
I don't use woodies much but you will find that others make them work well and find them a source of satisfaction too.


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## Graham Orm (9 Mar 2015)

shed9":3skl5lqf said:


> I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box.



David Charlesworth reckons that the LN are the nearest you will get to working straight from the box. All others are just kit's ready for you to complete....that's if you want it to work straight from the box.


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## Cheshirechappie (9 Mar 2015)

Graham Orm":uxb795hz said:


> shed9":uxb795hz said:
> 
> 
> > I want to buy something that will not require fettling or cleaning up and will pretty much work out of the box.
> ...



Have a read of this thread for something that works straight out of the box - this one did, even without honing the iron.

my-new-clifton-5-1-2-t87676.html


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## Cheshirechappie (9 Mar 2015)

Jacob":1c8xx2yb said:


> ali27":1c8xx2yb said:
> 
> 
> > ..........They really have to work on the aesthetics of their planes IMHO. ....
> ...



Jacob, those are not plane socks. They're not even plain socks! I know you like to sock it to us all, but that really is taking it too far.....


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## shed9 (9 Mar 2015)

Cheshirechappie":o0hi7dad said:


> Graham Orm":o0hi7dad said:
> 
> 
> > shed9":o0hi7dad said:
> ...



I have to say that looks like a stunning plane. I'll have a good look at the graphite range now.


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## Peter Sefton (9 Mar 2015)

Buy British if you can, you are more than welcome to come and play. 

We wouldn't leave you disappointed thats what customer service is all about 

Sorry we can't offer you LN, we did used to sell some but LN like to the dealership very tight. 

Cheers Peter


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## Graham Orm (9 Mar 2015)

Peter Sefton":np55w1jb said:


> Buy British if you can, you are more than welcome to come and play.
> 
> We wouldn't leave you disappointed thats what customer service is all about
> 
> ...



You surprise me Peter, I thought you sold them.


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## Peter Sefton (9 Mar 2015)

Graham Orm":36t1f02i said:


> Peter Sefton":36t1f02i said:
> 
> 
> > Buy British if you can, you are more than welcome to come and play.
> ...




Fair comment, or if you want to buy LN try Classic Hand Tools they also sell other brands as many of us do. I did suggest earlier in the post about going to the Midlands show where all the planes can be seen along side each other and judgements can be made for oneself.


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## shed9 (9 Mar 2015)

I did note the suggestion to get to the show Peter and am still checking this out. I think a hands on approach would help me.

I also appreciate your customer service comment, this is a big part of tool purchase and often missed.


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## Vann (9 Mar 2015)

shed9":eyakmfk1 said:


> I did note the suggestion to get to the show Peter and am still checking this out. I think a hands on approach would help me.


I hope you make it to the show - and I'd love to hear your impressions of the various plane brands if you do.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Rhossydd (10 Mar 2015)

shed9":37ao08g0 said:


> I think a hands on approach would help me.


The only dealer I've visited that stocks both brands is Axminster at High Wycombe. I think you're welcome to walk in with a lump of timber and try them out on their work benches.
I'd suggest a call first to check the particular planes you're interested in are in stock, but I'm sure you'll find them helpful without being pushy and that store's environment is probably a far nicer place to evaluate such a big purchase than the bustle of a show.

Other Axminster branches may also have similar facilities eg Nuneaton and may be closer to you, but HW is only a couple of hours from Cardiff, so just an afternoon's trip really.


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## bertikus_maximus (10 Mar 2015)

MIGNAL":s8g5y3zn said:


> That's the problem with searching for the 'best plane'. There isn't one. It's all dependent on use.



Absolutely agree. One man's luxury is another man's discomfort. And it isn't just 'best plane' its true for, its the same for any 'best X', even wider than just woodworking tools.


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## Kalimna (10 Mar 2015)

And, given that you are looking for something that not only functions well (as many do), but gives you pleasure in its use, are you in a position to save up a little more and head for the dizzy heights of a Konrad Sauer or Holtey plane? Surely these are the current pinnacle of the plane-makers aesthetic?

For what it's worth, I have a 5 1/2 cocobolo handled Lie Nielsen and find it no more or less capable than a 6 Clifton, but prefer both to the Veritas LAJ. And at that stage, for me, it isn't a performance issue, merely ergonomics.

Cheers,
Adam


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## shed9 (12 Mar 2015)

Okay, quick update, just ordered No 4.5, 5.5 and 7 Lie Nielsen planes .

I looked at Clifton and came close to buying but to be honest I got a fantastic deal on the Lie Nielsen's, it was too good to pass up. I suspect I will end up with Veritas spoke shaves and a block plane. Many thanks for the input people, will report back on delivery.


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## Peter Sefton (12 Mar 2015)

I am sure the LN will serve you very well indeed.

Cheers Peter


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## Vann (13 Mar 2015)

shed9":i3xdd6jt said:


> Okay, quick update, just ordered No 4.5, 5.5 and 7 Lie Nielsen planes .


From the point of view of supporting your local industry, it's a shame you didn't opt for the Cliftons.

But from a quality perspective, you'll never regret the Lie-Nielsens. Loverly planes (unless you find the A2 irons to be a PITA :mrgreen: ).

Cheers, Vann.


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## shed9 (13 Mar 2015)

Vann":l1gi9gdc said:


> shed9":l1gi9gdc said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, quick update, just ordered No 4.5, 5.5 and 7 Lie Nielsen planes .
> ...



I do support my local industry (I suspect more than most) at most every opportunity, but it doesn't constrain me or pang me to spend more in the process. 

I seriously looked at the Clifton's and if I went this route I would have got them from Peter (without doubt) but I have to be honest, I feel the LN's have the edge. This may change over time and I hope it does, but this week I went with another brand.


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## David C (13 Mar 2015)

Graham,

I think that quote applies to a time before Clifton planes existed. Veritas may also not have been available here. It was the lowest point of Stanley quality, i.e. awful!

My current sayings are "no manufacturers chipbreakers are ready to go. Front edges need work."

"Expecting a plane to work without sharpening the blade is like expecting a car to go without petrol."

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth


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## Graham Orm (13 Mar 2015)

David C":1hfy8dju said:


> Graham,
> 
> I think that quote applies to a time before Clifton planes existed. Veritas may also not have been available here. It was the lowest point of Stanley quality, i.e. awful!
> 
> ...



Thanks David, I'll update my quote list :wink:


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## mouppe (13 Mar 2015)

Great choice. I have the #5 1/2 and the #7 too. As you probably know, the frogs are interchangeable between the three planes, so you can order one with the 45 degree angle, one with the 50 and one with the 55. I usually keep the 45 in my #7 and the 50 in my 5 1/2.


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## shed9 (13 Mar 2015)

David C":3vy941ng said:


> "Expecting a plane to work without sharpening the blade is like expecting a car to go without petrol."



No expectations on my part that the blade will not need sharpening, that's a given. My requirement of 'out of the box' is more to do with my reluctance to flattening soles and the usual fettling associated with low end tools. I've done that and been there already.


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## David C (13 Mar 2015)

Yes, it is a fair bit of work, but terribly satisfying if one gets something to work really well.

David


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## shed9 (20 Mar 2015)

They arrived this week, just got chance to get them out;







They are just superb...


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## mouppe (20 Mar 2015)

Gorgeous. Now stop staring and start working![SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]


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## bugbear (20 Mar 2015)

shed9":r9zei82f said:


> They arrived this week, just got chance to get them out;
> 
> 
> They are just superb...



Now you've done it - you can't blame poor work on your tools anymore!

Do I gather a weekend of making shavings lies ahead?

BugBear


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## shed9 (20 Mar 2015)

Yup, I've dedicated some playtime


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## Graham Orm (20 Mar 2015)

Pure porn! We are expecting great things from you now!


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## Woody2Shoes (20 Mar 2015)

Droool, grunt, gasp! You're going to have to produce some very fine work to match these fabudicious tools, green with tool envy, W2S


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## shed9 (2 Apr 2015)

T'other planes arrived this week, a #62 and a 60 1/2 (plus a chip breaker driver).





Have to say, using these tools is pure joy and no regrets on the cost at all.


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## MIGNAL (2 Apr 2015)

They do a dedicated driver for the chipbreaker screw? :shock: I feel lost! I've been using 1 pence.


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## shed9 (2 Apr 2015)

MIGNAL":25ws5vko said:


> They do a dedicated driver for the chipbreaker screw? :shock: I feel lost! I've been using 1 pence.



:lol: Extravagant I know, but all my large blade drivers are really long and make it a pain to change blades, besides it was actually not that much despite having a LN name to it. And no, I never ever thought to use a coin, doh!!!!


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## Racers (2 Apr 2015)

I use the cap iron, and I have not damaged one yet.

Pete


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Apr 2015)

I've read that it shouldn't be done, but I was taught to do it at school.


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## Kalimna (2 Apr 2015)

I have an Axminster cap-iron screwdriver which is more like a flattened front plane-knob. The blade part has a collar around it, which prevents slippage. Perhaps unnecessary, but it prevents the screwdriver slipping off and entering my hand. I am that cack-handed!

Adam


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2015)

Racers":dz6ofx2q said:


> I use the cap iron, and I have not damaged one yet.
> 
> Pete



+1


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## Paul Chapman (2 Apr 2015)

Racers":2coma6l1 said:


> I use the cap iron, and I have not damaged one yet.
> 
> Pete



I presume you mean the lever cap? I've seen plenty of them damaged by using them to tighten and loosen the cap iron screw. I have my Dad's Stanley #5 which has a damaged lever cap because he used it as a screw driver.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Jacob (2 Apr 2015)

I just use a large screwdriver. Small drivers aren't as convenient. They only make a special one because they know people will buy them, but they are completely pointless.


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2015)

I should add I don't do it on my fancy QS.


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## Racers (2 Apr 2015)

Paul Chapman":3vcw64rj said:


> Racers":3vcw64rj said:
> 
> 
> > I use the cap iron, and I have not damaged one yet.
> ...




Sorry, yes cap iron.

Pete


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## yetloh (3 Apr 2015)

I got the Axi tool as a present and it works a treat.

Jim


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