# Bench grinder tool rest, anyone got a good homemade design



## The Bear (31 Jan 2012)

Hi

I have bought a bench grinder but it's got no tool rests. Anyone got any good designs for home made rests. I'm thinking this sort of thing, but home made

http://www.axminster.co.uk/veritas-veri ... prod22615/

I seem to remember seeing one on here years ago but can't find it now. Please post yours so I have a few ideas


Thanks

Mark


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## RogerP (31 Jan 2012)

Some years ago I more-or-less copied the Veritas one. Used odds and bobs of metal drilled and tapped etc. It works fine - that's why it's so "used" looking now


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## The Bear (31 Jan 2012)

Thanks Roger

Does the top part tilt and lock?

Mark


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## RogerP (31 Jan 2012)

Yes - this view doesn't show but it swivels and locks with an allen screw, same for the bottom of the uprights which also swivel and lock. The bit with the two wing-nuts clamps the plane iron or chisel and moves back and forth in the channel.


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## The Bear (1 Feb 2012)

Thanks for sharing roger

I'm probably going to need to make this mainly from wood

Anyone else got a design they can share?

Mark


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## Steve Maskery (1 Feb 2012)

I think most tool rest are poorly designed. They may do one kind of sharpening well, e.g. chisels, but I've yet to see a good Universal tool rest.

Problems arise especially when grinding skew chisels or wider blades like plan irons.

The system I have (sorry, no pics) is a wooden ledge mounted at spindle height along the front of the grinder, and a set of wedges for different preset angles. These ride along the ledge, presenting the blade at the appropriate angle. The wedges have to be made properly, of course, but they are quite adaptable for different blades.

I can take no credit for it, it was an article in The Woodworker in about 1473.

S


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## jimi43 (1 Feb 2012)

I built a very simple prototype for my grinder which was made out of MDF and a bit of rod...a cheap Axminster multi-tool rest and an old honing guide...






The angle of bevel is set by moving the tool in and out of the honing guide and the bar allows level passes to be made to create an even bevel.






You can transfer to a proper honing guide....






...or just create a secondary bevel by hand.

For larger chisels and plane irons I bought a multi-angle jig from Axminster and then splashed out on a Veritas clamp..they work like this...






In my opinion...both are worth the money invested...they create great results.....






Cheers

Jim


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## RogerP (1 Feb 2012)

My contraption does the primary angle on chisels and plane irons just fine.The sliding clamp is good for up to 3½". Not sure about skews as I've never tried.


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## The Bear (1 Feb 2012)

Steve

Your idea sounds interesting, is there anywhere on line I con see the article that you are aware of as I'm struggling a bit to visualise it

Jimi

Also like your idea. Is there an advantage of doing narrow chisels on version1? Why not do them all on version2?


I should probably make it clear I need to be able to do chisels of variety of widths and plane irons up to no7 size. If this requires 2 solutions then so be it. I don't own any skew chisels at the moment

Mark


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## Steve Maskery (1 Feb 2012)

Sorry, no. And as all my workshop is packed away at the mo, I can't get at it to take pics either. But it works well as the angles are repeatable. One of the bugbears of grinding is that if you get the angles a tad wrong and have to regrind, you end up wasting a lot of steel as well as time.
If you want to talk it over, my phone number is on my website.
Cheers
Steve


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## jimi43 (1 Feb 2012)

The Bear":2hq6whjp said:


> Steve
> 
> Your idea sounds interesting, is there anywhere on line I con see the article that you are aware of as I'm struggling a bit to visualise it
> 
> ...



Version II was more of a progression and a typical "just window shopping" visit to Axminster which always results in my spending £80 for some reason!

To be honest they both work equally as well. I need to extend the bar/support mechanism of Version I such that both coarse and fine wheels are accessible in one pass. But that's for this summer....

Jim


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## DTR (1 Feb 2012)

I didn't realise tool rests could be so extensive. Mine's just an old heavy duty angle bracket. I set the rest to the correct angle using a ply offcut with a 25° angle cut on the end. The bearing surface is a little small, I need to get hold of something to extend the rest with.


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## The Bear (2 Feb 2012)

Dave, are you able to take a photo and post? Simple can be best sometimes.

Anyone else built one like Steve M's? Can you post a pic of the finished rest or indeed the plans? Steve has kindly offered to talk it through on the phone but a pic paints a thousand words...


Mark


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## DTR (2 Feb 2012)

The Bear":dpdxzooj said:


> Dave, are you able to take a photo and post? Simple can be best sometimes.



I can't get to the shed right now, but it looks very much like the rest in the photo here. I'm not sure where the idea for the 25° angle guide came from but that was probably Schwarz.


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2012)

Chris is right that you don't need fancy grinders or water-cooled this and that but if you want one (and I do) then so what!

His hand cranked grinder has a wheel that probably cost twice what I paid for my Creusen...and this is why it works so well as I said before. Upgrading a hand grinder with a nice wheel is a great option. Turns them into a superb machine.

In fact..the same applies to machine grinders. It's the wheel that makes the difference....how it whizzes around is, to some extent, irrelevant.

You can also use the L shaped rest using your finger as a fence but I prefer a jig. It's a matter of choice...there is no right or wrong way of doing it as long as you are comfortable with it.

Jim


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## The Bear (2 Feb 2012)

The second hand grinder arrived earlier. Turning the wheels by hand there is noticeable wobble looking from the front. When at full speed this disappears. Clearly I need to take the guards off and make sure the spindle is true. Assuming it is, is there a problem? Would the wheels need dressing or is this normal? 

Clearly I have never owned one, doing everything the very slow way previously

Mark


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## DTR (2 Feb 2012)

If it's not a wonky spindle, it could be an eccentric bush between the wheel and spindle. A dial test indicator would be a good way of checking either.

Jim, can you recommend a good wheel please? I have a crummy cheap one on my hand grinder. If you're only using the grinder on a primary bevel does a good wheel really make a difference? Thanks


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2012)

I'm with Chris Schwarz on the Norton wheels. The supercool range Norton 3X from Classic Hand Tool is the one I've seen and would like to get but I have a fine one from a bootfair...I think it is just aluminium oxide but it is far better than the one that was on the grinder when I bought it!






That is not the normal position of the rest by the way...I was just using a dressing block on it.






It's very hard and fine...but it does take metal off quite fast and cool!

Cheers

Jimi


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## DTR (2 Feb 2012)

Thanks Jim. Is that a Metabo? It looks identical to mine 

Crikey, those Norton wheels aren't cheap :shock:


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## The Bear (2 Feb 2012)

Eccentric bush, whats that?

Mark


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2012)

DTR":2cuw059h said:


> Thanks Jim. Is that a Metabo? It looks identical to mine
> 
> Crikey, those Norton wheels aren't cheap :shock:



No....they're not! :mrgreen: I love the way Mr Schwarz in his article fails to mention this...after all...it is key to the use of the grinder to the level of quality bevel that would result.

I am not sure what make that one is...I'll have to have a look at it. It was yet another bootfair find....a few quid if I remember correctly. But it was in a right state when I bought it. I managed to clean it up a bit and lube it etc....but I never got around to restoring it. I doubt if I will now...it only gets covered in crud after all!

The gearing is incredible...with the largest wheel that would fit (rather than the stump it came with)....once it gets going...the momentum keeps it running. It takes a bit of getting used to with the crazy handle release thingy-me-bob and you have to remember to turn it the right way each time or it hits you like a Norton kickstarter, the wheel stops dead and then the securing nut unscrews and rolls across the room.....but it fair licks along if you turn it the right way!  

Show us a picture of your version mate....would love to see it.



The Bear":2cuw059h said:


> Eccentric bush, whats that?
> 
> Mark



:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## The Bear (3 Feb 2012)

Jimi

That was meant as a serious question, though I can see why it would make you smile  

So whats the answer. I've not owned a grinder before



mark


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## Richard T (3 Feb 2012)

Eccentric Bush - (in this case) what the axle passes through at the centre of the wheel - usually plastic these days and capable of being misaligned with the rest of the wheel. And NOT an elderly Hydrangea with a penchant for lemon tea and Marxism.


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## The Bear (3 Feb 2012)

If the bush is out, can the wheel be dressed or is it buy a replacement?

Mark


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## The Bear (3 Feb 2012)

I have just had one wheel off. A bit Heath Robinson to hold it but as far as I can measure the spindle runs out by 0.01mm or so. I would have thought that was ok.

Put back together still same amount of wobble as before so all seated properly.

So is the problem the hole in the middle of the wheel? Can the wheel be dressed easily to eliminate the wobble?


Mark


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## jimi43 (3 Feb 2012)

The Bear":6i8fc3jt said:


> If the bush is out, can the wheel be dressed or is it buy a replacement?
> 
> Mark



Hi Mark

You can get various inserts on FleaBay CLICKITY CLICK

Or you could just get a new wheel. What is the shaft diameter of your grinder?

Jim


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## The Bear (3 Feb 2012)

Jimi

Actually, the wheel has no sort of insert. There is just a hole in the middle that fits over the shaft. No sort of lining, stone straight onto the spindle. It is a good fit and should not induce the wobble I see.

The grinder and wheels are both creusen, so I thought I was getting decent quality.

Mark


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## jimi43 (3 Feb 2012)

The Bear":1sr67u64 said:


> Jimi
> 
> Actually, the wheel has no sort of insert. There is just a hole in the middle that fits over the shaft. No sort of lining, stone straight onto the spindle. It is a good fit and should not induce the wobble I see.
> 
> ...



Indeed you were...or rather should have been getting decent quality...so I think it could be a mounting issue.

My Creusen was really ropey when I bought it so I dismantled and refurbished it....the parts are all like this...







Each side has two plates which hold the wheels tight on the shaft. I will have to go and have a look but the white wheel certainly may have only had a hole in it with no insert. It was a Creusen wheel too....

Try loosening the nut and see if the wheel moves about on the shaft...there might be play and you may need to adjust the wheel on the shaft tightening each time to test if the wobble still remains. 

Is the wobble side to side or in and out? You may need to dress the wheel.

How old is the grinder? Do you have any pictures?

Jim


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## The Bear (3 Feb 2012)

Jim

Yes the wheels wobble side to side as well as in and out. Having run it there is no vibration. The manual suggests some wobble in both planes is acceptable but I think it is a bit more than they allow. I will try readjusting the wheel on the shaft over the weekend.

The grinder is an Axminster customer return, so practically new but definitely been used. I do not know the reason for the return, probably this. Bought on eBay the listing suggested it was fit for purpose, and I think it is with a bit of fettling. I paid £73 for a £230 grinder but that will only be a bargain once I'm happy with it. Model is 7200T I think.

Mark


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## DTR (3 Feb 2012)

jimi43":2na3ato6 said:


> It takes a bit of getting used to with the crazy handle release thingy-me-bob and you have to remember to turn it the right way each time or it hits you like a Norton kickstarter, the wheel stops dead and then the securing nut unscrews and rolls across the room.....but it fair licks along if you turn it the right way!
> 
> Show us a picture of your version mate....would love to see it.
> 
> Jim



I thought the crazy handle release thingy-me-bob was rather clever in principle but a pain in the khyber in use. I wanted to add a spring to it to see if it improved things but I didn't have one handy. Instead I packed the shaft out with washers. It works great until there's an unplanned handle / body part interface.

Here's mine:











I wonder if the "foreign" has anything to do with the M8 threads?


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## jimi43 (3 Feb 2012)

Hi Mark

If there is inward/outward play then the wheel is either not dressed properly or more likely needs lining up better.

The wobble from side to side also indicates the latter. I would pack it out with a cardboard shim around the shaft to centre the wheel...clamp it up and then try it.

Yes....DTR...looks just like mine but in much better nick! I would go for a new wheel myself. That one looks very coarse...though some prefer that. But the fine one I have works much better that the original which looks a bit like yours.

Jim


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## The Bear (4 Feb 2012)

I've checked the wheel with the dial. Front to back it runs out 0.22 mm, which is within the limits in the manual. Side to side it runs out 0.6mm, the limit is 0.5mm so is only just out. I'm therefore wondering whether to leave this side alone?

The other side I need to measure further but front to back the wheel runs out 0.8mm. The limit is 0.3mm so that side is well out.

There isn't really enough room between spindle and bore to put card shims in, the fit actually by eye looks quite good. Is there some very thin tape I could wind round the spindle to try Jims idea of packing it out?


Mark


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## jimi43 (4 Feb 2012)

The Bear":38cfuaiw said:


> I've checked the wheel with the dial. Front to back it runs out 0.22 mm, which is within the limits in the manual. Side to side it runs out 0.6mm, the limit is 0.5mm so is only just out. I'm therefore wondering whether to leave this side alone?
> 
> The other side I need to measure further but front to back the wheel runs out 0.8mm. The limit is 0.3mm so that side is well out.
> 
> ...



If the wheels are tight on the arbours then they don't really need shimming. You would only do that if you wanted to centre them and tighten. If you have play...use paper shims or greaseproof paper will be more robust. The idea is to centre the wheel on the arbour the best you can with a tight fit...tighten up the nut/washer and then check.

Any play on the surface can then be removed by dressing the stone. You can use the cheap dressing/grading blocks (course abrasive)....but it is best to invest in a proper diamond dressing block from FleaBay LIKE THIS ONE. Go gently, and introduce the dressing block to the wheel slowly until you hear the wheel touch the surface of the dresser.

You slowly introduce the dresser until the wheel rubs all the way around. This is now concentric with the arbour.

Don't worry too much about the side play. A small amount is ok and you should NEVER use the side of the wheel anyway...it may shatter!

Jim


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