# Straight edges / gauges and measuring in general



## EdK (1 Feb 2008)

Evening all
I am getting more into this wood malarky and had some questions concerning measurements etc.

I have been using a plastering level for a straight edge but know that it is probably not 100% a good idea!

I was looking at the Starrett ones mentioned in David C's book (think they are 386 ? L http://www.jwdonchin.com/Starrett/Catal ... s/386.html) but they are about £100 for a 24" one.

Then I saw the Kinex ones in the Tilgear catalogue but they mention at the bottom that they are not suitable for fine tolerance engineering or something like that... not exactly inspiring when looking for a fine tolerance tool!

I remember a Veritas one mentioned on this site (CHT maybe?) but someone said they weren't great ?

Anyway...
What is a good length to buy ?
Any recommendations ?

Also I was looking at gauges for marking and for mortise marking.
Again I am tempted by the cheap square head ones recommended in the David C book from Tilgear (couple of quid each).
But then I saw the round wheel ones and was wondering if this was a better option?

I saw a few posted here that people have made - not sure I have the time as everything takes me ages to make as I am a newbie !
Having said that I do have a nice length of beech fished out of a skip (old door tread).

Was looking at the £6.50 mortise ones fromTilgear (Marples I think).. Any good?

So are the wheel gauges better ?
Is it better to buy a gauge with a blade or a pin ?
What is a good number of gauges to buy ?
What about number of mortise gauges to buy ?

One more thing:
Marking knives... 
I made one from a piece of industrial hacksaw blade (about 30mm by 120mm) and this seems to work well. But I was wondering if the japanese ones were better ? Saw one in Tilgear for about £5...

Thanks
Ed


----------



## Karl (1 Feb 2008)

Ed

I have the Veritas straight edge from Rutlands - 24" accurate to within 1 thou. I've been very happy with it, and it is much more accurate than my last "straight edge", which was from Tilgear.

Knives - I have a Japanese knife from APTC - cost about £7 from memory.

Cheers

Karl


----------



## Woody Alan (1 Feb 2008)

> I remember a Veritas one mentioned on this site (CHT maybe?) but someone said they weren't great ?



I rember the reference it was to them saying that they got someone in a shop to check a spyderco ceramic stone with a veritas straight edge and they.. the shop) said it was OK so the (possibly? justified) sarky reply was, "then I wouldn't want one of those straight edges" (meaning the stone was warped when he got it). 
Please forgive the paraphrasing I think I got the gist. the straightedge as with all things I've experienced from Lee Valley is as it says, and I do have one.
Remember sraight edges of this quality are for reference, you do not want to be running a knife down them to mark etc or you will soon wear the edge, get a cheap engineers square for that. Agree the cheap japanese knife from Ax for marking. 

Alan


----------



## Digit (1 Feb 2008)

1 thou? Mmm. Wish I plane that accurate! :wink: 

Roy.


----------



## Paul Chapman (1 Feb 2008)

EdK":lxi5ehwh said:


> So are the wheel gauges better ?
> Is it better to buy a gauge with a blade or a pin ?
> What is a good number of gauges to buy ?



Having made a marking gauge from a design I pinched from Woodbloke, I would say have a go at making your own. I have both the wheel type and the more traditional Marples brass and rosewood type, but the one I made myself works better (and costs nothing because you can make it from scraps of wood lying around in the workshop).

Here's a picture







These are the components






Why it works so well is that the little saddle spreads the pressure from the wedge in two directions. It locks really solidly with just finger pressure, yet it's easy to release the wedge by just tapping it on the bench

The pin is a masonry nail, shaped on a grinder then honed.

Here's a picture during construction 






Make the wedge first using a slope of around 3 to 5 degrees then make the main body from four pieces laminated together around the wedge, with the wedge waxed well so that you can remove it. That's far easier than trying to chop a mortice for the wedge. Then cut and chisel a slot for the stem and saddle and glue the base of the body on. The saddle needs to project about 1/16" or 1/8" so that the wedge presses against it.

Make them and you can have as many gauges as you like at no cost  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## newt (2 Feb 2008)

The current rutlands web site does not show Veritas straight edges only those from Dakota, don't know if they are any good. I am in the market for one as I made the fatal mistake of lending mine which subsequently got ruined.


----------



## MIGNAL (2 Feb 2008)

Maun do steel straightedges that are supposedly accurate to within .01% of the length. Probably good enough for checking plane soles.
Rutlands state that the Dakota straightedge is accurate to within .08mm over it's entire length of 38 " - again not bad for a general purpose straightedge.


----------



## woodbloke (2 Feb 2008)

I have a couple of the Maun straight edges and have found them pretty good for general 'shop work - Rob


----------



## Chris Knight (2 Feb 2008)

Don't get the Tilgear Kinex thing it's hopelessly inaccurate.


----------



## Karl (2 Feb 2008)

waterhead37":2vb9qoin said:


> Don't get the Tilgear Kinex thing it's hopelessly inaccurate.



That's the one I was thinking of in my earlier post - useless.

Cheers

Karl


----------



## Harbo (2 Feb 2008)

I have a Dick 300mm (DIN Standard) and an Axminster 750mm (£18.52).
Both are bevel edged, substantially thick and accurate! They also do a 1m one and a 450mm.

The Axminster 3 piece Precision Square set is a good buy at £21.74

Rod


----------



## ivan (3 Feb 2008)

I use a Maun for general purpose and cutting, I guess the 48" accurate to 0.01% has 4.8 thou error, perhps not quite enough for testing.

Have a look at the link below, the "Vitual Catalogue" (they call it) page 116 there's DIN874/2 straight edges from 500 -2000mm from £33 to £173 which should do the trick. The 500mm has a tolerance of 21 microM which is pretty hard to detect with a feeler gauge....

http://www.lineartools.co.uk/script/site/default.asp


----------



## MrJay (3 Feb 2008)

Woody Alan":2tfhqv0d said:


> > I remember a Veritas one mentioned on this site (CHT maybe?) but someone said they weren't great ?
> 
> 
> 
> I rember the reference it was to them saying that they got someone in a shop to check a spyderco ceramic stone with a veritas straight edge and they.. the shop) said it was OK so the (possibly? justified) sarky reply was, "then I wouldn't want one of those straight edges" (meaning the stone was warped when he got it).Alan



Sarky? That would be me then. It might just as likely been human error as the straight edge being out of true - the odds of it being out of true and matching the the same out of true on the offending stone must be smallish.

[edit]
I'd also add that I reckon C.H.T to be a very excellent shop in a world full of rather poor shops; and had I not thrown the offending stone with some force upon the ground in disgust at Norton's (It was a Norton Flattening Stone, not a ceramic stone) concept of flatness and broken it a little bit (thus possibly voiding the warranty) I don't doubt that C.H.T would see me right with a refund / replacement with no fuss at all whatsoever.
[/edit]

While on the subject of straight edges - I use an off-cut of Walnut which I made into a nice shape and plane true every now and then.


----------



## Digit (3 Feb 2008)

The trouble with using straight edges of this accuracy is that you will soon be worried about the surface of your router table, table saw, planer etc etc etc!

Roy.


----------



## Anonymous (3 Feb 2008)

Ed

Avoid Axminster's 'straight edge', I sent mine back and they apologised and said it was really only for cutting card etc., and not an engineers straight edge


----------



## bugbear (4 Feb 2008)

EdK":14f0mldh said:


> I have been using a plastering level for a straight edge but know that it is probably not 100% a good idea!
> 
> I was looking at the Starrett ones mentioned in David C's book (think they are 386 ? L http://www.jwdonchin.com/Starrett/Catal ... s/386.html) but they are about £100 for a 24" one.
> 
> ...



This thread should be helpful:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... p?p=212041

BugBear


----------



## bugbear (4 Feb 2008)

EdK":xovv2xg6 said:


> Was looking at the £6.50 mortise ones fromTilgear (Marples I think).. Any good?
> 
> So are the wheel gauges better ?
> Is it better to buy a gauge with a blade or a pin ?
> ...



1 gauge should suffice; either wheel or knife; the only pin gauges that are versatile enough to work (nicely) cross grain have large pins ground like knives...

The "baby" from Lee Valley is excellent:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,42936

And their "normal" wheel gauge is a fine buy:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... at=1,42936

The graduated and micro-adjust versions are nice pieces of engineering, and their increased cost is more than justified by the build cost, but I'm not sure their utility increases in the same proportion.

I use a cheap (car boot) marking gauge which I converted, but this does involve some metal working.






BugBear


----------

