# external shutters, re build



## dedee (23 Nov 2010)

External Shutters

This is probably of more interest to the european residents as I do not think external shutters are very common in the UK.

It seems to me that the basic design of the shutters as seen throughout most of france is fundamentally flawed, if made from bog standard pine. The problem is that water collects behind the lower horizontal part of the Z and rot inevitably follows. This would not be so bad if one could replace the last 6" of each affected board, but this is not possible as 1) a joint at this point would lead to more problems and 2) the tongue and grooved boards are nailed, presumably with a nailgun as the heads are at least 1/4" below the surface of the board hence removing one or two boards without damaging the rest is nigh on impossible - for me anyway.







So I decided to practise my french and head off to the sawmill. Ordinarily I would go to one of the large sheds/timber merchants but the standard width of prepared shutter boards is 9cm and all mine are 10cm - sensible really as the windows are 120cm wide that is 6 boards per shutter. 9cm boards would mean some odd shaped boards.

The hardwood Zs (some kind of exotic mahogany type timber i think) all seem to be in good condition and do not need replacing.

I though it would be a good idea to keep the Z intact (joints are just skew nailed) and I wanted to put the hinges back in exactly the same place so I thought it would be a good idea to replace the boards one at a time. 

The first 3 boards were removed





The first 2 new boards were attached to the Z, the hinge was then screwed back onto the old boards providing the exact location for the holes in the new boards. This way would ensure that 1) the hingers would be the correct spacing apart and 2) no additional holes need be drilled in the hardwood.





Stainless steel screws were used throughout so if a board does need to be replaced it should be a doddle.
The first complete shutter





I forgot to alternate the growth rings on this one, I hope it will be OK.

1 coat Cuprinol shed and fence preserver was applied before construction and another coat added when complete. There seems to be nothing like cuprinol over here. The finish of the choice is a "lassure" which like paint forms a skin and allows moisture to be trapped underneath. I much prefer cuprinol as it allows the wood to breath and is a doddle to reapply.
metalwork treated to a couple coats of Hammerite 
I down 8 more to do.










I tried to reduce the gap all round by as much as possible as the smaller the gap the smaller the heat loss

For anyone interested in the thermal benefits of external shutters Taffy Tuner kindly did some calculation for me 3 years ago
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/heat ... 32-15.html

Cheers

Andy


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## cerdeira (23 Nov 2010)

dedee":2ljdbxcf said:


> I forgot to alternate the growth rings on this one, I hope it will be OK.



On external joinery I tend to use the boards so that the heartwood is facing the most harsh weather conditions ie sun, rain, etc. that's because
since it has more pitch content is more durable.

On a side note I can see on your pictures, that over there, like in Portugal, timber merchants also sell the pith boards instead of ditching them out.



> For anyone interested in the thermal benefits of external shutters Taffy Tuner kindly did some calculation for me 3 years ago
> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/heat ... 32-15.html.



that seems to be a dead link...


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## dedee (23 Nov 2010)

Thanks

yep there are probably more knots than I would have preferred but no worse than what was there originally.

I've repaired the link.

This might also be of interest although refers to internal shutters
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-e ... e-11759023


Cheers

Andy


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## Pvt_Ryan (23 Nov 2010)

Nice job.


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## kirkpoore1 (23 Nov 2010)

Hi, Andy:

Those look great. This is a timely post for me, since a guy I know in my local woodworking club has been making shutters for his house. The house is a reproduction French Colonial style place, which was common in this area since the French held it up to 1763. Here's an example built in 1800:





His shutters look just like yours, except instead of the Z-frame back his has two battens made of tapered sliding dovetails. I don't have a picture of his, but here's a similar one (from Fort Ross, California):




Very interesting construction, and no hardware required. His hinges are shorter than yours, but otherwise identical.

Kirk


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## OPJ (23 Nov 2010)

Nice repair job.

Do you think bevelling the top edges of both horizontal rails would help with the problem of rot, by allowing the water to run off and down on to the cill?


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## dedee (24 Nov 2010)

Kirk, I like those shutters, a lot. They look very heavy and thick and the construction method is probably beyond my capabilities but a nice design.

Olly, I should think a chamfer/bevel would help and I will do so although water will always run down the groves between the boards.

Cheers


Andy


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## jeffinfrance (24 Nov 2010)

hi andy,

nice job. 

you can find 100mm standard widths, as you appear to have found already.

granted, quality of timber isn't that good, but is it anywhere from the sheds. all the stuff i get for shutters is made by wisa. pretty much world wide, so can't see difference in quality from one country to another......maybe if its manufactured in different countries.

the basic design is not so much fundamentally flawed as modern construction methods have bastardised it and made it not work as well.

ledges should be bevelled (top) and negative bevelled (dont know the correct term) on the bottom. all old shutters here are flush without chamfers on each piece.

braces should also be notched in to the ledges, but using two screws per board per brace negates the need.

there are hardwood options for readymade shutter boards, chestnut is a very good, not stupidly expensive alternative.

all the best

jeff


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## dedee (24 Nov 2010)

Jeff,

100mm certainly not standard in the sheds. I looked at châtaignier but the price was more than double sapin du nord and I figured that if they last another 18 years it would be fine. Mine are also only 20mm thick and again the standard around here appears to be 27mm which would have caused all sorts of problems with the concreted in hold backs and stops.

Hope I am not being dim - very wet here so brain is a wee bit soaked.

I'm struggling with your terminology by braces I assume the "Z". What are the ledges to which you refer?

cheers

Andy


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## kirkpoore1 (24 Nov 2010)

dedee":16mzt8m2 said:


> Kirk, I like those shutters, a lot. They look very heavy and thick and the construction method is probably beyond my capabilities but a nice design.
> ...
> Cheers
> 
> ...



Andy:

My friend used much thinner boards, probably 3/4". He then set up a jig where he put the shutter pieces in, set a pattern on top, then used a dovetail bit on a router to cut out the socket for the dovetailed batten. He probably used a straight bit first to clean most of the waste (down to 3/8"), then just did the edges with the dovetail bit. The battens themselves were cut on a table saw. 

I think he has to do something like 40 of these shutters. The hinges alone were going to cost over $1000, so it wasn't a small deal by any means.

Kirk


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## jeffinfrance (24 Nov 2010)

hi andy,

not dim at all, just too many names for different things to remember 'em all, i find anyway. there's still loads i havn't learnt yet.

ledges are the horizintals, wider normally than the braces, which are the diagonals. ergo the classic....braced and ledged door, which is effectively what shutters are over here, just little ones.

the bracing is called "barre decharpe" over here.

for me the extra for the chataigner is worth it in lack of maintanance costs.

jeff


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## dedee (24 Nov 2010)

jeffinfrance":3n4mk0gr said:


> "barre decharpe"



Nah, I prefer the Zs  

Thanks for the info. Next time perhaps it will be chestnut.

Funny innit, braced and ledge door I have no problems with just did not make the association with shutters

Cheers

Andy


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## Benchwayze (25 Nov 2010)

If you like shutters (and I believe they are common in France), they look fine. How do you lock them? Are they secured from inside, thus requiring inward opening casements? Or am I missing something.


Also, is there any regulation out there with regard to outside shutters being dangerous in case of fire? I.e, how do you get out in an emergency, if you can't reach your door? 

Just curious.. 

John


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## JMcK (25 Nov 2010)

Windows in France normally open inwards. The shutters are secured from the inside.

Some insurance companies will insist that there are shutters. The alternative requirement can be, if shutters are fitted, that they are closed if the house is left unoccupied.

In relation to fires I believe,someone with more direct knowledge will correct me,that closed shutters will help to slow the spread of fire. Less draught. Like shutting internal doors if a fire starts.


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## dedee (25 Nov 2010)

John, here's a pic of one that I have not repaired yet 






They are not generally "locked" just held with a catch on the inside. As John pointed out the windows open inwards. The shutters also sit inside the wall so it is not possible to lift them off when they are closed.

Andy


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## Loz_S (25 Nov 2010)

Dedee,

If you run out of Cuprinol and want a French alternative have a look for Xylamon.

http://www.coronabatiment.net/index.php?p_a=__fiche&p_id=51

I had family living in Soturac and had to treat all of their rafters with this stuff. It's probably exactly the same as Cuprinol as it's made by AkzoNobel who now own ICI (makers of Cuprinol).

.


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## dedee (25 Nov 2010)

Loz

I have seen this product before and it appears to be similar to Xylophene which both appear to be treatments for insect and bugs and do not appear to contain water repellants as found in Cuprinol and Blackfriars.

I stand to be corrected on this though so let me know if I have got this wrong.

thanks

Andy


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## Benchwayze (26 Nov 2010)

Thanks Andy,


It seems my casements are French Style then! I don't have any double casements, but they all open inwards. So no shutters for my 6' wide windows! 



Regards

John


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## JMcK (26 Nov 2010)

John

You can always have them hinged in the middle. That's what's done here for wider windows.


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## Loz_S (26 Nov 2010)

dedee":21std3io said:


> Loz
> 
> I have seen this product before and it appears to be similar to Xylophene which both appear to be treatments for insect and bugs and do not appear to contain water repellants as found in Cuprinol and Blackfriars.
> 
> ...



Yep, you are right, Xylamon is more like Cuprinol 5 Star - an anti-rot and anti-insect wood preservative. Think of it as a primer which you then need to finish off with a top coat of "lasure" - waterproof wood stain.

I just thought that if you were having trouble keeping rot out of your shutters, then using "Xylamon Charpentes" before you use varnish or wood stain is almost as good as buying pressure treated, preserved wood.

According to the small can of Xylamon that I have left, the active ingredients are Propiconazol and Permethrin, but that doesn't mean much to me!

Cheers,
Lawrence


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## dedee (26 Nov 2010)

Lawrence,
thanks for confirming that. The problem, in my opinion, is that eventually water gets behind all of the skin forming wood stain (lassures), varnishes, paints etc and that rot then ensues undetected under the finish. Reapplication also requires that the old finish be rubbed down, with cuprinol just brush off any dirt and slop it all over.
I doubt I will be in the house long enough to see if the my cuprinol treated shutters last any longer than the lassure treated originals.

Andy


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## JMcK (26 Nov 2010)

Andy

Agree about the lassure type applications. Also care is needed when applying the Xylophane type treatments. Suggestions that some of the ingredients are carcinogenic. Don't know how true that is but you do need good protective gear.

Agree also about using Cuprinol. We have been using their "Heritage" range with pleasing results. Good coverage and seems to be standing up well to the weather here.


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## richard.selwyn (8 Feb 2012)

dedee":u70xrzsx said:


> Jeff,
> 
> 100mm certainly not standard in the sheds. I looked at châtaignier but the price was more than double sapin du nord and I figured that if they last another 18 years it would be fine. Mine are also only 20mm thick and again the standard around here appears to be 27mm which would have caused all sorts of problems with the concreted in hold backs and stops.
> 
> ...



I apologise for dragging up an old thread, but I have to build some "châtaignier" shutters for a client and I see you founds some stock available somewhere. Before I go and buy the rough sawn planks I wanted to check if I could buy ready machined stock - lazy, but....
Thanks in advance,
Richard.


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## dedee (9 Feb 2012)

Richard, I have also replied to your PM.

Hi Richard, no trouble at all although your geography is a bit out . I am in Normandie too just NE of Caen. Whereabouts in Normandy are you?

I think the correct term is "lame de volet". I did not actually find any ready made in chestnut I am sure I found prices on a website although I did not bookmark it and a google this morning has not found it either. They are available though eg http://www.ets-mazieres.fr > bois exterieur habitat > lame a volet. 

The reason for the deterioration of my shutters has more to do with the design and finish used than the type of wood. The only rot was where the wood could not dry out under the thick coats of "lassure" on the lower horizontal brace. Although I cannot stop water getting between the brace and the boards I expect that the cuprinol (imported from the UK, haven't found a french equivalent yet) I used will enable it to dry out.

I'd be interested to know how you get on if you do manage to source ready made or machine your own.

cheers


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## condeesteso (9 Feb 2012)

Those sliding dovetail ones look really great... I'll remember that for later


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