# Cabinet scrapers



## No skills (14 Jul 2012)

Greetings all, might get a couple of cabinet scrapers (and a burnisher :wink: ). Are there any brands to avoid or any that are recomended? or are they all much the same?


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## adidat (14 Jul 2012)

cabinet scrapers are just a bit of flat metal, cut up an old saw, that will do the trick. But if you want to buy new you cant go wrong with the clifton set.

sharpening them is a different matter, the clifton burnisher is the sexiest, and works quite well.

once you figure out getting them sharp, they are a very useful tool in you inventory.

adidat


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## DTR (14 Jul 2012)

adidat":2nha11uc said:


> cabinet scrapers are just a bit of flat metal, cut up an old saw, that will do the trick.



What is the best way to cut up an old saw into a scraper shaped object?


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## adidat (14 Jul 2012)

im talking about a hand saw, angle grinder or a hack saw, then if you want a profile drill out a radius and finish off with a hacksaw and a file or bench grinder.

its quite important you don't overheat the piece so dip it in water to cool it down

adidat


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## jimi43 (14 Jul 2012)

I bought a whole set including a French curves one from Matthew at WSH CLICK HERE and it didn't break the bank. Use them all the time on burrs and other nasties and they are beautiful.

Highly recommended indeed. This gives you various thicknesses which are valuable in different circumstances, I would also get a pair of leather thumb guards though...they get darn hot sometimes!

Jim


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## dunbarhamlin (15 Jul 2012)

Some burnishers are sold unpolished (one German make springs to mind.) To produce a more durable bur, these should be brought to a fine polish before ticketing a scraper.


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## Racers (15 Jul 2012)

Hi,

Pop down to your local Pound shop and but a hand saw, cut it up with a hack saw and you can make loads of scrapers.







Pete


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## jimi43 (15 Jul 2012)

Much though I agree with your sentiment of economy Pete and Chris....I do think that £1 is a little over the top! :mrgreen: 

If I found one of those springy thingies at a bootfair I could find a hundred...Perhaps a cheaper source? 8) 

That being said...you could use a screwdriver shaft for a burnisher as well but the Clifton one is a lovely thing...kind of makes you at least think you can do a better burr with it! :wink: 

I think most of us would be hard pressed to make a decent facsimile of one of the curvy ones from a saw though:






...and as I said before...the different thicknesses of the selection above are useful in different applications...saws tend to be all a bit on the thick side for me.

Jim


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## Paul Chapman (15 Jul 2012)

jimi43":f7as2d56 said:


> That being said...you could use a screwdriver shaft for a burnisher as well but the Clifton one is a lovely thing...kind of makes you at least think you can do a better burr with it! :wink:



+1 for the Clifton burnisher - a lovely tool.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## katellwood (15 Jul 2012)

For a burnisher I use an old knife steel, try and find a polished one there are plenty around


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2012)

Paul Chapman":3799vcz4 said:


> jimi43":3799vcz4 said:
> 
> 
> > That being said...you could use a screwdriver shaft for a burnisher as well but the Clifton one is a lovely thing...kind of makes you at least think you can do a better burr with it! :wink:
> ...


The Carbide sharpener for scrapers (not the one on the website at the moment) that Matt used to sell at WH was better than any steel burnisher. Unfortunately, they're not sold there any more...but I have one :mrgreen: - Rob


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Jul 2012)

If I ever had to deal with broken windows or float glass of any description, I always looked through it quickly and took out any cleanly broken,gently curved pieces - they don't last long as scrapers, but they're extremely sharp for small jobs.


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## pesida02 (15 Jul 2012)

i've tried cutting up old saws , and whilst they work, the best results i have had is using old wrappers from e bay or retired cabinet makers.


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## adidat (15 Jul 2012)

hi

not sure what you mean by wrappers, 

on another note felder disposable planer blades make fantastic scrapers, as long as they haven't got too many large nicks.

adidat


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## Teckel (15 Jul 2012)

Old saws work well for scrapers but as was said already they are a bit on the thick side. The thinner the better I find.


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## matthewwh (15 Jul 2012)

woodbloke":1fh2211t said:
 

> The Carbide sharpener for scrapers (not the one on the website at the moment) that Matt used to sell at WH was better than any steel burnisher. Unfortunately, they're not sold there any more...but I have one :mrgreen: - Rob



You mean this one Rob?





Still available


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2012)

matthewwh":2utxptni said:


> woodbloke":2utxptni said:
> 
> 
> > The Carbide sharpener for scrapers (not the one on the website at the moment) that Matt used to sell at WH was better than any steel burnisher. Unfortunately, they're not sold there any more...but I have one :mrgreen: - Rob
> ...


Unless I'm missing somat Matt (which wouldn't be the first time :roll: ) the one on the site at present is the sharpener (with the hexagonal grinding thingie on the cylindrical bit)...one of which I also have as opposed to the cabinet scraper sharpener which has a smooth cylinder :? Confusion here Matt, so some clarification needed. I had a look on the site this morning and could only see one of the carbide tools, whereas at one time there used to be two side by side - Rob


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## No skills (15 Jul 2012)

Well then, thank you folks for all the information :idea: 

I didnt know that a burnisher should have a polished finish for best results, the old saws I have laying round at the moment are quite pitted so I dont think they would make good scrapers. Having said that one is an old disston that isnt that bad IIRC but has a double kink in it which I dont think will straighten well - possible scraper fodder :twisted: , and maybe even scratch stock fodder as well as this is something else I'm also interested in.

I'll have a look at the Arno ones and maybe get a birthday request in :-"


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## matthewwh (15 Jul 2012)

Ahaa!

The sharpener is in woodworking / tools / sharpening / carbide sharpening along with the pocket sized carbee sharp.
The burnisher is here in woodworking / tools / planes / cabinet scrapers with all the other scraping goodies

Maybe if we duplicate the listing for the burnisher in the sharpening section too it would be clearer?


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## woodbloke (15 Jul 2012)

matthewwh":3lv3oau9 said:


> Ahaa!
> 
> The sharpener is in woodworking / tools / sharpening / carbide sharpening along with the pocket sized carbee sharp.
> The burnisher is here in woodworking / tools / planes / cabinet scrapers with all the other scraping goodies
> ...


With you now Matt. At one time, if memory serves, both the sharpener and burnisher were listed side by side...a duplicate listing as you suggest might make it clearer - Rob


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## DTR (16 Jul 2012)

adidat":z0i9jvut said:


> im talking about a hand saw, angle grinder or a hack saw



I'm surprised that a hacksaw would do it, I thought cutting a saw blade with another saw would just strip the teeth. I never thought of using an angle grinder though (not that I have one). Thanks for the tips


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## Racers (16 Jul 2012)

Hi, Dave

A 32tpi hacksaw blade will cut saw plated very well, they are harder than steel used in saws.

Pete


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## bugbear (16 Jul 2012)

Teckel":2rgzmwim said:


> Old saws work well for scrapers but as was said already they are a bit on the thick side. The thinner the better I find.



That depends on the saw - age, quality and size thereof. Further, different thickness scrapers are good for different purposes.

I would recommend *buying* the burnisher new . Old ones are amazingly rare (i've only ever found one example). I've made a burnisher (from an old butcher's steel) and it took ages. Even the more expensive burnishers are comparitively low priced.

However, you can't just use an old screwdriver or chisels. Burnishers need to be super hard and polished.

BugBear


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## CHJ (16 Jul 2012)

If you can locate someone who works with solid carbide drills or endmill cutters they are good for scraper burnisher stock.
Being rather prone to shattering the cutting edge if dropped or mis-used there are usually a few shank stubs floating around.

I know we had a waiting list, mostly of marquetry hobbyists looking for them for scraper burnishing.

It's what I use for old hard point saw blade stock and HSS turning tools.


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## whiskywill (16 Jul 2012)

bugbear":15yvknc2 said:


> However, you can't just use an old screwdriver or chisels. Burnishers need to be super hard and polished.



A burnisher can be made using the stem from a car, or other, engine valve.


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## Teckel (16 Jul 2012)

bugbear":1badle7o said:


> Teckel":1badle7o said:
> 
> 
> > Old saws work well for scrapers but as was said already they are a bit on the thick side. The thinner the better I find.
> ...



I did a good bit of restoration and would of used scrapers on a daily basis. I had shop bought ones and home made ones but always found myself going for a scraper that was thinner than the others. It was made from an old tenon saw.
They are an excellent tool.


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## matthewwh (16 Jul 2012)

woodbloke":2kzn2obr said:


> matthewwh":2kzn2obr said:
> 
> 
> > Ahaa!
> ...



Done!


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## thick_mike (16 Jul 2012)

whiskywill":1rv2jee6 said:


> bugbear":1rv2jee6 said:
> 
> 
> > However, you can't just use an old screwdriver or chisels. Burnishers need to be super hard and polished.
> ...



That looks interesting. How do you use it? Is the angle of the stem to curl the burr over?


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## bugbear (16 Jul 2012)

thick_mike":3kf8x5au said:


> whiskywill":3kf8x5au said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":3kf8x5au said:
> ...



post451745.html?hilit=Mendanales#p451745

BugBear


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## thick_mike (16 Jul 2012)

Thanks!


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## No skills (16 Jul 2012)

Useful info on the burnishers, will have a look and see if our lorry fitter has some suitable bits laying round.


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## Cheshirechappie (17 Jul 2012)

The trick with getting a good edge on a scraper is to see that both the edge and sides are well polished on a fine sharpening stone before activating the burnisher. Get a really sharp, clean 90 degree edge, and then not much work needs to be done to turn a hook with said burnisher. (Indeed, a sharp scraper will cut straight from the stone. It cuts a bit better with the hook burnished, though.)


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## woodbloke (17 Jul 2012)

Cheshirechappie":1yvc2lkd said:


> The trick with getting a good edge on a scraper is to see that both the edge and sides are well polished on a fine sharpening stone before activating the burnisher. Get a really sharp, clean 90 degree edge, and then not much work needs to be done to turn a hook with said burnisher. (Indeed, a sharp scraper will cut straight from the stone. It cuts a bit better with the hook burnished, though.)


Yep, that's one of the tricks. I do it by using a fine 150mm file on the edge, then I polish it by holding it against a square block on my 3M films and finally swipe each face a couple of times on the films...a light touch is then needed with the burnisher to turn over the hook - Rob


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## MIGNAL (17 Jul 2012)

The real problem is that the scraper usually wears much faster in the centre. I've found that draw filing, then going to a finer wet and dry mounted on a 'file length' piece of wood is much quicker than taking it to stones and trying to true the entire length of the scraper. Better would be a diamond type abrasive 'stone' used in a similar manner. Saves changing the abrasive paper.


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## Eric The Viking (17 Jul 2012)

I've got one of these Crown Tools burnishers:




It's definitely very hard steel indeed, and it turns a burr better than any of my previous attempts with large screwdrivers. I'm sure the hardness makes a difference.

Oddly, I find my cabinet scraper edge lasts for quite a decent length of time. I don't know what it's made from. It's quite thick and came originally from Bristol Tools, as did the burnisher (the picture is from an earlier thread here on the subject, and isn't my own scraper).

Neither were very expensive - IIRC the cabinet scraper was a couple of quid, and the burnisher not much more.

HTH,

E.

PS: Bristol Tools definitely sell the Crown burnishers, and I think Axminster do too.


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## bobbybirds (17 Jul 2012)

Now this is a burnisher! Really though, I think any carbide burnisher that is new will be totally serviceable, and many homemade ones as well. I just love Blue Spruce tools and figure I could spend my money on a whole lot worse things! lol


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## bugbear (18 Jul 2012)

Crown Burnisher £7.17

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Woodwor ... apers.html

Veritas Tri-Burnisher £35.50

http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... shers.html

Clifton £19.36

http://www.axminster.co.uk/clifton-clif ... prod19524/

Kirschen 7.90

http://www.axminster.co.uk/kirschen-kir ... prod22110/

Pfeil £20

Hock £13

http://www.classichandtools.co.uk/acata ... shers.html

"Classic" burnishers (polished, hard bits of steel) seem too cheap to be worth makign your own. Carbide and/or sapphire
might be worth DIY'ing.

BugBear (and google  )


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## MIGNAL (18 Jul 2012)

I have the Kirschen. It marks in use on a cabinet scraper! However the back of my Henry Taylor gouge does not.


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## bugbear (18 Jul 2012)

MIGNAL":3iph5wd1 said:


> I have the Kirschen. It marks in use on a cabinet scraper! However the back of my Henry Taylor gouge does not.



Both of those are surprising!

BugBear


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## CHJ (18 Jul 2012)

bugbear":23y3dj7g said:


> MIGNAL":23y3dj7g said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Kirschen. It marks in use on a cabinet scraper! However the back of my Henry Taylor gouge does not.
> ...





Not a surprise to me at all, the Kirschen is listed as HSS, I use Solid Carbide to burr HSS lathe tool scrapers, not often as I try to avoid needing such delicate finishing, but the two I have both from 'Names' in the turning world are like chalk and cheese regarding ease of turning a burr and edge retention in general, my conclusion with this and several of my other gouges is that regardless of marketing hype, quality of HSS alloy or its heat treatment can be very variable.


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## MIGNAL (18 Jul 2012)

Surprised me too. Here are a couple of people who have had a similar experience:

two-cherries-burnisher-t31667.html

If you look at the review of the Kirschen (on the Axminster site) there is a chap stating exactly the same: it marks, even with light pressure.


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## Cheshirechappie (18 Jul 2012)

A straight carbon tool steel hardened right out and given a minimal temper would be harder than most grades of HSS, but brittle - wouldn't do to drop it on a concrete floor. The advantage of HSS over carbon steel is it's ability to hold a cutting edge at higher temperatures, such as those attained when metal-cutting. That's not really a relevant property for a burnisher.

Good burnishers would be polished carbide (very hard but brittle), or hardened carbon tool steel with minimum tempering (not quite as hard, still brittle). HSS would be a 'second choice' for hardness, but wouldn't be quite as brittle. Such things as gouges may work quite well, screwdrivers are not hard enough by quite a lot. An old good quality round file with the teeth ground off and then polished would make an excellent burnisher for anyone prepared to expend that much effort.


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## MIGNAL (18 Jul 2012)

A file may not be that much hard work. Look at the Glen Drake File/Burnisher on Bugbears Classic handtools link. It appears to be a very fine file (70 tpi) with just the edge that is highly polished, a 2 in 1 tool.


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## Eric The Viking (18 Jul 2012)

I have to pipe up for the Crown Tools one. I don't know what it's made from but it is very hard and most definitely doesn't mark. 

It's also inexpensive, comfy (matters to me!), and British!

E.


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## No skills (18 Jul 2012)

I was looking at the crown burnisher, mostly because I liked the look of the handle


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## custard (20 Jul 2012)

For the past few years Lie Nielsen, Veritas and others have been offering scrapers that are much, much harder than the traditional ones, which approximated to the moderate hardness you'd find in a typical western traditional handsaw. 

I've tried both, and after an initial burst of enthusiasm for the new ultra-hard scrapers I find myself drifting back to the traditional ones. The new style need more effort to prepare, ideally with a carbide rod as a burnisher and a course diamond stone to remove the old hook rather than a file. Yes, they do last longer, but I'm not convinced that they cut quite as finely (although this could be a by product of the more difficult preparation). 

There's also now a much greater variation in available scraper thickness, which presents woodworkers with yet another set of decisions!

It's not a hard and fast rule, but I find myself tending to use thicker, harder scrapers for heavier work and when the scraper is secured in a holder (such as the basic Veritas holder), and thinner, softer scrapers hand-held for delicate tasks (such as flattening stringing and inlay).

I learned how to use a scraper from Bruce Luckhurst, who emphasised a great range of scraper preparation depending on the task in hand. One technique of his that I regularly use is to prepare a traditional scraper with the lightest imaginable single stroke of the burnisher. It seems impossible that this single delicate stroke could possibly turn a hook, but that's exactly what it does, and furthermore it's the perfect hook for levelling inlay (which unfortunately is sometimes "spongy" and difficult to flatten without tear-out).


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## Eric The Viking (20 Jul 2012)

custard":3584e74z said:


> For the past few years Lie Nielsen, Veritas and others have been offering scrapers that are much, much harder than the traditional ones, which approximated to the moderate hardness you'd find in a typical western traditional handsaw.
> 
> I've tried both, and after an initial burst of enthusiasm for the new ultra-hard scrapers I find myself drifting back to the traditional ones. The new style need more effort to prepare, ideally with a carbide rod as a burnisher and a course diamond stone to remove the old hook rather than a file. Yes, they do last longer, but I'm not convinced that they cut quite as finely (although this could be a by product of the more difficult preparation).
> 
> ...



Wow! 

That's a really useful post, thank you. 

I use a cabinet scraper, but not often enough to have a good consistent system going. I was wondering about my varying degrees of success ("when it's good, it's really good... etc."), and you've given me heart.

Many thanks,

E.


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## woodbrains (20 Jul 2012)

Hello,

I've tried the Veritas hard scrapers too and though they are OK I still prefer ones made by Bacho (used to be Branded Sandvik). They are a good size, do not take ages to prep (sides polished) and are relatively easy to file with a mill file, stone and burnish.

Mike.


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