# Which combination plane?



## Vormulac (13 Dec 2006)

Hi folks,

I know opinion tends to be divided on the utility of combination planes, but I have to admit I really rather like them (must be the engineer in me or something!). I only have the one, a Stanley 50S which I bought more because it looked interesting than anything else, but it has made me more curious about the other ones out there; a glance at ebay will reveal a raft of different types and models and they all look fabulously intricate and fiddly, with lots of bits sticking out at odd angles - great!  

My question to those of you out there who know about such things, is which ones are actually considered to be any good? I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a 'good' one, but I don't really know the difference!

I'd like to know what you think.

Cheers!

Vormulac.


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## DaveL (13 Dec 2006)

Alf, Alf, Alf, Vormulac is already at the top of *The Slope TM*, you just need to gently shove.


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## Vormulac (13 Dec 2006)

Generally speaking, I need *very* little encouragement when it comes to the acquisition of shiny kit  (I'm not sure which winds SWMBO up the most, the shiny kit I buy or the amount of research I do before I get it :lol: )

V.


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## Colin C (13 Dec 2006)

Vormulac":35yuwicj said:


> Generally speaking, I need *very* little encouragement when it comes to the acquisition of shiny kit  (I'm not sure which winds SWMBO up the most, the shiny kit I buy or the amount of research I do before I get it :lol: )
> 
> V.



And there was me thinking it was just that did that


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## Alf (13 Dec 2006)

This needs to be handled delicately to attain maximum velocity down The Slope - I will return after lunch when I have the proper time available to devote to it... :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Colin C (13 Dec 2006)

Alf":25r5znb6 said:


> This needs to be handled delicately to attain maximum velocity down The Slope - I will return after lunch when I have the proper time available to devote to it... :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Oh no she is at it again
(I think I will turn the computer off for a week or so 8-[ :wink: )


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## Alf (13 Dec 2006)

_Et voilà_. I go, I come back.

First up you will (naturally) have taken advantage of the copious amounts of info available online, readily accessible via the Shrine to the Boat Anchor? A passing familiarity with the manuals of the most popular models can often make the decision for you. That's if you really mean it about only getting one...

Secondly, which are "good" is a horribly personal thing. It not only depends on what the individual user prefers in terms of weight, fiddliness etc, but also the state of the individual examples of models they may have tried. Viz: exposure to an unusable 050 with warped skates, wonky fence rods and so forth is liable to make Woodworker A vehemently dislike the 050, despite all Woodworker B's ringing endorsements. 

My own personal nadir of awfulness in combination planes is an example of the intensely gizmotic Stanley #55. By sheer bad luck it turned out to have a full house of manufacturing cock-ups from which to choose and is still awaiting some work before I can make it useable. Had it been my first or second exposure to combination planes, I'd have likely given them up as a bad job and gone and bought another router instead, thus ending up on a quite different Slope. Certainly #55s as a whole would have been ranked as planes no sane galoot should wot of. And yet there are knowledgable, and indeed money-earning, woodworkers out there who wouldn't like to be without one.

Anyway, the 50S has introduced you to the wunnerful world of grooves, dadoes etc I believe, so the next logical step is upwards towards a full 50 or beyond and the joys of beads and so forth, rather than "down" to a 044 or 043. Right, putting aside the modern versions 'cos I can never remember the numbers, that leaves us with the most obvious and available Stanleys 50, 45 and 55, Record 050(A), 405 and the Lewin. I personally have a soft spot for the Lewin, but it's not to everyone's taste and it can be tricky to get one with all the parts and not too hammered, especially since some silly person put together a webpage on it. #-o

I hope it doesn't offend our 'Murrican membership, but generally speaking the Record examples are just that bit better in small but significant places, so I'd be inclined towards them. If you like the 50S, you may want to stick with that same sort of size and go with the Record 050. Personally (again) I prefer a little more weight and would go for the 405 - that'll give you sash, beads, ovolos, reeds (the latter ones if you can get hold of/make some) and is generally a pretty good all rounder IMO.

However, if you want to go off the gizmocity scale and tackle many and varied mouldings, the #55 (or Sargent #1085 if you happen to find one) is really your only viable option, but it's quite a lot to get your head round and they ain't cheap. There's also, as I've found, a lot that can go wrong with one, so I hesitate to actually _recommend_ it.

Having said all that, you could stay on the same lines as the 50S but go skewed and consider a #46. Excellent for cross grain work and many people love them - but oddly enough I've yet to be fully smitten by it.

Thus it is, as I say, rather a personal thing as to which are good. One of each is probably the safest way... :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Mirboo (13 Dec 2006)

Alf":kl4yi9v3 said:


> One of each is probably the safest way... :wink:



Only one??? :lol:


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## Alf (13 Dec 2006)

Mirboo":3c5ti6eu said:


> Alf":3c5ti6eu said:
> 
> 
> > One of each is probably the safest way... :wink:
> ...


I told you - delicate handling. It's no good striking before the fish has the hook firmly in its mouth.  :lol: 

Cheers, Alf

Who only has one of each. Except for a couple of incomplete spares that simply don't count, okay? :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (13 Dec 2006)

I have the Record #405, Stanley #45 and Stanley #50 (only one of each  ). I much prefer using the #405 and #45 to the #50 - they are heavier and I think that makes them work better, although some people seem to prefer the lightness of the #50. It pays to look around. They can be expensive but I managed to pick up my #45 for £45 and the #405 for £20. They were both complete except for a couple of cutters.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (13 Dec 2006)

Paul Chapman":82wusdrv said:


> pick up ... #405 for £20.



=D> Gloat =D> 

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (13 Dec 2006)

bugbear":33qun5gw said:


> Paul Chapman":33qun5gw said:
> 
> 
> > pick up ... #405 for £20.
> ...



Wondered whether you'd notice :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Colin C (13 Dec 2006)

Now Paul

You are just showing off :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (13 Dec 2006)

Colin C":8s7q7hsl said:


> Now Paul
> 
> You are just showing off :wink:



I don't have many gloatworthy tools, so just making the most of the ones I do have 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Alf (13 Dec 2006)

bugbear":3efipnq5 said:


> Paul Chapman":3efipnq5 said:
> 
> 
> > pick up ... #405 for £20.
> ...


Oh per-leeese. Don't _encourage_ him ](*,) #-o :roll:

Cheers, Alf

Who'd have trouble getting a twenty pound note for £20 :roll:


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## JesseM (13 Dec 2006)

I like the combo planes myself. I started with a Sergant 1080 which is kinda like a 45, but it has problems. Then I grabbed a 45, then a 46, a Rapier 043 clone and finally the 55. Only one of each so far. My favorite is the 46. The skew makes everything easier, but it was also the most expensive. I just got the 55 with an almost complete set of cutters, and am looking forward to trying it out. It even came with a manual which I feel I am going to need. :shock: 

One of the good things about the 043 and clones is that they will accept most any of the other combo blades (mostly plow though). But it seems like a really neat plane to experiment with. I've seen these go for pretty cheap over on your guy's side of the pond. I got my Rapier in the UK for 5 or 6 pounds.


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## Paul Chapman (13 Dec 2006)

JesseM":qo8e5sk7 said:


> a Sergant 1080 a 45, then a 46, a Rapier 043 clone and finally the 55.



Now that's a gloat :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (13 Dec 2006)

I have a Record 45 and am pleased as punch with it. Well worth buying one in my opinion


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## JesseM (13 Dec 2006)

Paul Chapman":2ph7allm said:


> JesseM":2ph7allm said:
> 
> 
> > a Sergant 1080 a 45, then a 46, a Rapier 043 clone and finally the 55.
> ...



Perhaps I have been getting a tad bit carried away. You can blame Jake for inspiring me. BTW I made one of Jake's dovetail blades that was sent off to the heat treater, and it should be back this week. I can't wait to try it out.


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## Vormulac (13 Dec 2006)

Thanks all, especially Alf. I was under the impression that the 50s was the same as the 50 but not supplied with the beading cutters? Sounds like I'm probably wrong there 
I, too, prefer a slightly heavier tool, so the Record 405 sounds like it might be worth keeping my eyes peeled for.
I'm going to hit the web and see what I can find 

I'll keep you infoooooorrrrrmmmmmeeeeddddd..................

(who put that ruddy slope there?)


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## Alf (13 Dec 2006)

Paul Chapman":1b78ur7b said:


> JesseM":1b78ur7b said:
> 
> 
> > a Sergant 1080 a 45, then a 46, a Rapier 043 clone and finally the 55.
> ...


Nah, that's not a gloat. That's the beginnings of a problem... :wink: Incidentally, "finally" the 55? Who are you trying to kid? :lol: 

V, not 100% sure on the 50S, but I imagine it'll be short of the beading stop too. But if you can get hold of the other bits then in theory you could get a 50 that way - but ironically it's probably cheaper just to buy another plane. (bite little fishy, bite...)

Cheers, Alf


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## Lord Nibbo (13 Dec 2006)

OK I know it's not quite a #50 but what is a record 44 worth these days?


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## JesseM (13 Dec 2006)

Alf":2ynocw2w said:


> Paul Chapman":2ynocw2w said:
> 
> 
> > JesseM":2ynocw2w said:
> ...


Whats sick though is how many different ebay search terms I have memorized for all the different names people come up with when describing one.


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## Anonymous (13 Dec 2006)

Be careful when comtemplating buying a 50 though. I've noticed with a few of the stanley ones( no wooden handled ones) and carters have problems with the secondary skate. The stanleys with wooden handles generally seem alright.

Just check that the second skate when its all bound up doesn't cup. I have one old stanley thats so bad that when you bind up the blade it cups the second skate a good 1/4" ! ...try and adjust with that side screw, but no help. 

With that sort of problem the planes pretty much doomed for plough work. It'll work at making side bead cuts but thats about it. 

Also, I'd make a habit of pressuring the blade down with a finger at the tip of the blade whilst binding up.....some of the 50's don't hold the blade down flat on the bed.........chatter business again. 

Record 50 seems more solidly made......I'd get yourself a record 43 or a rapier equivelent. 

Goodluck. There'll be troubles to iron out, no matter what you buy.


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## bugbear (14 Dec 2006)

Jake Darvall":hgwx86q6 said:


> Be careful when comtemplating buying a 50 though. I've noticed with a few of the stanley ones( no wooden handled ones) and carters have problems with the secondary skate. The stanleys with wooden handles generally seem alright.



In the case of my sample-of-one, not so:

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 58#message

BugBear


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## Alf (14 Dec 2006)

If I'm understanding the problem correctly I think you might have an oddity there, BB. Possibly someone swapped in another washer to replace the original at some stage?







Cheers, Alf


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## Pekka Huhta (14 Dec 2006)

By the way, has anyone built different soles for, say a # 45? With the same idea as the nosing tools, but with more decorative profiles. Moulding planes withtout that plane part involved  I'm planning to try a few, as it really sounds quite tempting to make only the soles and irons and rely on the 45 as a "tool holder" only. 

I've got our house full of odd decorative profiles, but over the years many of them have been stripped off the house and replaced with modern ones. I've been making replacement sash profiles with a router and about a gazillion passes with different router bits when I've restored the windows. That's OK with very simple profiles only and I really hate that screaming machine anyway. The mouldings on the ceiling or around windows and doors would probably require several passes with several different moulding planes, as the profiles are very wide. 

Does anyone have an idea how this could be done or do I just start experimenting? If anyone has built moulding planes, what's the best method of making the sole? I have used only a scratch stock with the few soles I've done, but does someone have more creative ideas about it?

Pekka


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## Anonymous (14 Dec 2006)

bugbear":g8cifrzr said:


> Jake Darvall":g8cifrzr said:
> 
> 
> > Be careful when comtemplating buying a 50 though. I've noticed with a few of the stanley ones( no wooden handled ones) and carters have problems with the secondary skate. The stanleys with wooden handles generally seem alright.
> ...



:? I don't think we're talking about the same thing 

I don't know why your talking about T&G's and 44's ? Whats that got to do with the stanley 50 and the skate problem ? 

*Pekka*. One way you can make moulding planes is with a 55. After you've made your blank, mouth etc, you just plane the sole with the 55 that has a blade sharpened to cut the negitive of the profile you want....or you can modify an existing woodie. 

I've done that recently with an old rebate plane.


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## Alf (14 Dec 2006)

Jake Darvall":xh5lr0sm said:


> :? I don't think we're talking about the same thing
> 
> I don't know why your talking about T&G's and 44's ? Whats that got to do with the stanley 50 and the skate problem ?


You _are_ talking about the same thing; it just happens BB was doing the grooving bit with a 044 but the tonguing was with a 50.

Pekka, funnily enough when I first got my 45 I thought just the same - nothing came of it through a combination of laziness and trying to achieve it without altering the plane. These days I'd have probably tapped the skates for some screws by now... :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Pekka Huhta (14 Dec 2006)

We seem to follow the same lines, allofus  

A #55 would be neat for making the soles *if* I had one. And if I had, I could try to make the moldings with that. It looks like a wonderful gizmo and am tempted, but on the other hand... I have plenty of planes already. And good shoes which don't slip on the slope



(like any of you would believe)

My example of the #45 isn't that "collectable", although it is quite complete. It's one of the last that they made, so it's not such a crime to drill a few holes to it. And my endless supply of old block plane irons will make good stock for the molding planes. 

Hm. Maybe I'll give it a try during Christmas. 

Pekka

P.S: Have you noticed that it's relatively easy to saw plane irons with a hacksaw blade intended for cutting tiles? Those round carbide grit wire saws for starters and a form-turned MDF grinding wheel for the rest. 

Apropos the MDF grinding wheels, could someone find the links for me at the forum?. I don't seem to find the right search word and there has been a vulgar amount of discussion about MDF... :roll:


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## bugbear (14 Dec 2006)

Pekka Huhta":13lr6bop said:


> P.S: Have you noticed that it's relatively easy to saw plane irons with a hacksaw blade intended for cutting tiles? Those round carbide grit wire saws for starters and a form-turned MDF grinding wheel for the rest.



Heh. Now try cutting an engineers (M2, I think) power hacksaw blade, which can be done (just...) with the same carbide-coated-wire blades.

I do this when making cutting gauge knives, and it's rather tedious, slow work.

The resulting knives keep an edge for ages though (don't they Alf?)

BugBear


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## Anonymous (14 Dec 2006)

Alf":20yvub1m said:


> You _are_ talking about the same thing; it just happens BB was doing the grooving bit with a 044 but the tonguing was with a 50.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



I'm sorry Alf....don't think we are, just quietly. 

The problem I'm talking about wouldn't exist with the matching cutter in the 50.....and the 44 has just the single skate doesn't it ? 

I'm talking about how the second skate of some 50's bind themselves into a cup. Takes the skate line outside the blade corner line, such that its impossible for the plane to drop into the cut. 

I'll get a picture of a dodgy 50 tonight to clearify. Whether there be any interest in it is another question.


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## Alf (14 Dec 2006)

Ah, I see. Well I read it as BB had run less with the binding-skate-ball and more with the assertion that "the stanleys with wooden handles generally seem alright." 'cos his wasn't.

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (15 Dec 2006)

Thats fine. I still find these internet discusions a bit confusing.  Everyones going off in all different directions all the time.. 

Anyway to clarify what I was saying with one of my duds....

Had this problem happen with all the 50's and there lookalikes excepting the wooden handled stanleys and the record 50. (maybe just got unlucky with mine ????) 

Hate to see someone buy themselves a dud thats all. 





That plane(above) won't plough or centre bead.....The first couple of passes maybe ok....but then it'll bind up. 

...it be still ok atl making side beads because the second skate is tucked way behind the fence for those cuts..

..and it will still cut a tongue with the matching cutter I suppose (maybe thats what bugbear was getting at?) because the skates are well centred within the blades cut. 

But it wont plough....which is something one might do with the plane the most. 

You can make it plough, but that requires surgury.....have to either file at the side of the bed , or, regrind the plough blades so its wider at the blade edge than it is further up.....ie. to bring the blades corner out past the skate line. ...either way, its pretty fiddly,,,,doubt few would do it since its easy to stuff up. 

Remember, this is all just an opinion. I don't want to step on anyones toes !


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## Paul Chapman (15 Dec 2006)

Very helpful, Jake :wink: That's one of the advantages of the Stanley #45/Record #405. With those the skate assembly isn't used to clamp the blade in the plane (as it is with the #50/050), so the moveable skate can be slid under the cutter - a much better design, in my view 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Clinton1 (15 Dec 2006)

Pekka:

A video (my first video, so don't expect quality) on MDF wheel sharpening.
You have to register on the site to download the torrent video file, but its all free.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101

Other threads are here:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthrea ... =mdf+wheel

http://www.woodworkforums.com/showthrea ... =mdf+wheel

For all the video's: http://www.woodworkforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=101

Sorry for the off-site links, but I know the ubeaut site a lot better.


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## Alf (15 Dec 2006)

Hmm, that's an interesting one, Jake. Might have to go and have a dekko at mine now. Haven't used it much (certainly not recently) and iirc when I did I didn't enjoy it; this may help explain why. Must admit, like Paul, I don't much like the skates-as-cutter-holder design either. Should be an improvment, but I just find it creates extra fiddling - even when it works at it's supposed to.

Cheers, Alf


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## bugbear (15 Dec 2006)

Alf":3pyi8on7 said:


> Ah, I see. Well I read it as BB had run less with the binding-skate-ball and more with the assertion that "the stanleys with wooden handles generally seem alright." 'cos his wasn't.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Absolutely; I have a dim memory that on one of my combo planes, the depth stop was very close to the blade; when the screw was loose (for adjusting the depth) all was well, but when the screw was tighthened, the depth stop juuust pushed the blade a little (tiny amount).

As anyone who's tried to cut a rebate where the blade doesn't at least line up with the body (preferably protruding a gnat's) knows, such a tool will drift out of the cut, a tiny amount per stroke.

Fixing this involved filing down the depth stop sole-plate a little.

Further...

I've now measured the washer in my wooden handled Stanley #50. The "full" diameter is 1.29 cm, and I had to file it down to 1.03 cm.

For comparison, the bolt head is 0.70 cm

I have no reason to believe it was swapped - the plane came complete in a box, and only the 1/4" cutter had been sharpened. (*)

BugBear

(*) I'd call that a gloat, but in the context of a garage sale #51/#52 combo, and Rob Lee's "plane table", perhaps it doesn't qualify these days


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## Vormulac (15 Dec 2006)

Hi Alf,

I've bought a Lewin (not received it yet), is there anything I should particularly look for or bear in mind when I finally get my grubby little paws on it?

Thanks as always!

V.


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## Alf (15 Dec 2006)

Vormulac":lvr71nba said:


> Hi Alf,
> 
> I've bought a Lewin


Oh lawks, what have I done...  

Things to look for - the presence of all the parts. The beautifully innovative cams that fix the fence can drop out and be lost, f'rinstance (DAMHIKT). If it's in its box, take care not to spike yourself on the cutters (another DAMH...). Basically all the usual rules of setting up combis apply, plus you have the advantage of the manual being online now :wink:

Jake, I've looked at my (apparently) pre-1910 #50 and I have miniscule cupping but in an acceptable way - out at the cutter but in (by about 0.5mm as the very maximum) fore and aft. Older plane with heavier casting? Better made? Made while they still remembered why they did it a certain way? I don't know.

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (15 Dec 2006)

Alf":tacvyteg said:


> Must admit, like Paul, I don't much like the skates-as-cutter-holder design either.



In my view there are two really good features of the Stanley #45/Record #405 blade-holding bolt system. It not only allows you to slide the moveable skate under the blade, but it also allows more precise positioning of the blade on the right-hand skate, thereby enabling you to position the blade so that it is exactly in line with the skate or slightly outside it :wink: 

Cheers,

Paul


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## Vormulac (15 Dec 2006)

Alf":2qv3blw6 said:


> Vormulac":2qv3blw6 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Alf,
> ...



Don't worry about it Alf, if I don't get on with it, big deal! It's a learning curve and it's fun - nothing ventured ... and all that 

Looking forward to having a fiddle with it - intact or not!

V.


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## Anonymous (15 Dec 2006)

Alf":2zty469i said:


> Jake, I've looked at my (apparently) pre-1910 #50 and I have miniscule cupping but in an acceptable way - out at the cutter but in (by about 0.5mm as the very maximum) fore and aft. Older plane with heavier casting? Better made? Made while they still remembered why they did it a certain way? I don't know.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



You'd know the dates better than me. Quality etc. I'm not even shore what years mine are. Agree though its probably something to do with the casting. Feel the record 50 designers nailed it though. The one I have doesn't cup or even hint of it.....just looks tougher than the stanleys. Which I like. But then the blade doesn't naturally sit flat on the bed :roll: (got to hold it down with a finger at bind up, to get the daylight out)

As for if its acceptable or not. Does it plough freely when all skates and fence parallel (using callipers eh) ? .... thats what really comes down to I suppose.

When you bind a blade up and lay a ruler along, like I did in that picture above, does the blade corner touch the ruler as well ? If it doesn't, even if its real small, like .1mm, the plane just won't work, or will be sluggish to push. And thats just no good. Planing should be free and easy going. 

I agree completely with Paul on the #45. The clampups better. You can wiggle the blade around a bit so its just right etc. That #50 design seems a little too ambitious eh. 

Of all the clampups I think the #55's the best though. (if I can describe it). On the #45's second skate theres a catchment edge that binds the blade.....means you cant protrude the blade outside as you like. 

The #55's sliding skate doesn't have this catchement edge(if thats what you call it :lol: )....its handy to be able to slide the skate where ever you like I feel. 

Night. Must go to bed. What am I doing ? 3 in the morning and on the computer. :roll:


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## Paul Chapman (15 Dec 2006)

Jake Darvall":1i34eo51 said:


> Of all the clampups I think the #55's the best though.



Damn, I wish you hadn't told us that, Jake. I'll want a #55 now :roll: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Alf (15 Dec 2006)

Jake Darvall repeatedly":1sjjvmg7 said:


> eh


Jake, I thought you were a true blue Aussie, not a Canadian, eh? :lol: 

Anyway, yeah deciding whether it ploughs well is, erm, problematic. I was forcibly reminded why I didn't use the darn thing - the cutter slips backwards all the time. :roll: It's something I will solve (maybe even soon) but not at the moment. The blade does touch the rule though - it works in that respect. 

Cheers, Alf


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## CONGER (16 Dec 2006)

Is there anybody making plough (alias 'plow') planes now. LV, LN, ....?? Surely it is time some of the current innovative manufacturers turned their attention to this.

-ger-


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## Alf (16 Dec 2006)

Steve Knight springs to mind. Been mutterings at LN about something for a while, but you never know when a rumour will become a reality - or just never materialise at all. I don't doubt that LV have seen the same gap in the hand tool arsenal too. Time, as they say, will tell. Only trouble I can see is price, so maybe if we start saving _now_... 

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (16 Dec 2006)

There's this http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/A45 or this http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/A52 or this http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Plane.html

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Colin C (16 Dec 2006)

It seem like a stupid question but what is the difference between the #55 and the #45 as I have not had the chance to try them  
Yet :roll:


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## Paul Chapman (16 Dec 2006)

Colin C":uqy266d7 said:


> It seem like a stupid question but what is the difference between the #55 and the #45 as I have not had the chance to try them
> Yet :roll:



See http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan6.htm#num45 and http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan8.htm#num55

But remember, Patrick Leach doesn't like them :shock: 

Cheers,

Paul


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## Colin C (16 Dec 2006)

Thanks Paul

I guess I have some reading to do


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## Paul Chapman (16 Dec 2006)

Colin C":481w7oat said:


> I guess I have some reading to do



You could also read up some of Jake Darvall's stuff on the Aussie forum - he can tell you how to get them to work really well  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Colin C (16 Dec 2006)

Paul

I have seen some of Jake's s and I will look again.
He is very good with them


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## Alf (16 Dec 2006)

Paul Chapman":bxvrsjcz said:


> There's this http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/A45 or this http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/A52 or this http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... Plane.html


Oh gawd, I'm going senile now - completely forgot all those #-o Serves me right for the boneshaker joke.  :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (16 Dec 2006)

Alf":2ibemh37 said:


> Serves me right for the boneshaker joke.  :lol:



That'll teach you :lol: (Actually, I had to laugh when I saw your joke - if you'd seen some of my times when I was racing you'd realise why  :lol: )

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (17 Dec 2006)

Alf":1gc4ieec said:


> Jake Darvall repeatedly":1gc4ieec said:
> 
> 
> > eh
> ...


 :? eh ? well, actually I am Canadian. 



Alf":1gc4ieec said:


> Anyway, yeah deciding whether it ploughs well is, erm, problematic. I was forcibly reminded why I didn't use the darn thing - the cutter slips backwards all the time. :roll: It's something I will solve (maybe even soon) but not at the moment. The blade does touch the rule though - it works in that respect.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Oh good. But wonder why it slips....I've yet to come accross that problem. The only thing I can think of is, that the wing nuts not tightened up properly. Maybe the unthreaded shank of the bolt that the wing nuts riding on is protruding out, such that it feels tightened but isn't really. But thats a guess. Have to see for myself to really have a chance at solving that one. 

The 50's seem definelty more troublesome though , than other planes EH ! :lol: :wink:


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## Alf (17 Dec 2006)

Jake Darvall":ddlbi2pv said:


> Alf":ddlbi2pv said:
> 
> 
> > Jake Darvall repeatedly":ddlbi2pv said:
> ...


#-o Gads, I'm doing well in this thread, aren't I? I'm in a rush, so I'll come back to the 50 anon...

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (17 Dec 2006)

Alf":23ybwcxt said:


> Jake Darvall":23ybwcxt said:
> 
> 
> > Alf":23ybwcxt said:
> ...



  I was just joking again, sorry, pulling ya leg..... I'm true blue....ozzie, ozzie , ozzie...oi, oi, oi etc :roll: ...um, put a shimp on the barbie.....um,um gday mate.... Give us a home among the gum trees, with lots of plum trees,,,,,a sheep or two and a kangaroo,,,,,clothes line out the back !.....veranda out the front, and an ollllllllld rockiiiiiiing chaiiiiiiir. :? yum, yum, pigs bum....bloody ozzies. no wonder you poms think we're so uncooth. :lol: :wink: (dont take any notice of me Alice) eh.


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## Alf (17 Dec 2006)

Half way to the car boot I though "Hmm, I wonder if he was joking...?"

Just wheel me in a corner and leave me to my own devices someone, before I say anything else stoopid. #-o

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (17 Dec 2006)

Alf":2h36r420 said:


> Half way to the car boot I though "Hmm, I wonder if he was joking...?"
> 
> Just wheel me in a corner and leave me to my own devices someone, before I say anything else stoopid. #-o
> 
> Cheers, Alf



You didn't say anything stupid I think. I certainly did though :lol: got a bit tipsy last night. please excuse. 

So, tell me about that 'car boot'....... do you mean like the flea markets ? ..... we have car boot market here too.


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## Alf (17 Dec 2006)

Yeah, same deal as a flea market I believe. Everything from clothes, ancient and modern, to toys, to plants to tools. Dealers with whole vans of boxes laid out to the bloke clearing out his garage and piling it all on a shaky wallpapering table. Lot of the latter today. We came to the conclusion that either a) a lot of people getting out their Christmas decs had found boxes of junk in the way and decided to get rid of them. Or b) SWMBO said "clear the garage! I've got to put all the stuff from the spare room in there if your sister's going to stay over Christmas" :lol: In consequence a fairly eclectic selection to choose from, but got a few gems including a rather lovely boxwood spokeshave I'm rather pleased with and a fascinating take on the multi-tip screwdriver.

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (18 Dec 2006)

Interesting thread. I finally had a chance to read through it.

I hate to say it, but I've never owned a plow plane which didn't work as it ought. Stanley 45/55, Woodies, Sargent 45-a-like, and now lastly an 043 and an 050. I still have a wood plow, but it had a single iron when I bought it, but it works well.

Looking at the link to the Anant 45-a-like, the casting actually looks nicer than the higher priced Clifton. I have used a Clifton a friend owned. A bit coarse all round and just left the impression that for what they charge they could do nicer.

One of these days, I'll probably make a run of wooden skewed dado planes. Fashioned like the ones I have owned which were over 150 years old. But for grooving and beads, I've found the Record 050 to be a better size for me than my 55 was.

Take care, Mike


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## bugbear (18 Dec 2006)

Alf":32myo19w said:


> Been mutterings at LN about something for a while, but you never know when a rumour will become a reality - or just never materialise at all. I don't doubt that LV have seen the same gap in the hand tool arsenal too. Time, as they say, will tell. Only trouble I can see is price, so maybe if we start saving _now_...
> 
> Cheers, Alf



I think LV is confirmed by this



Rob Lee on Woodnet":32myo19w said:


> Hi Chris -
> 
> All in the works... Blade holder thing - still searching for a MFG source....we put our time/budget into lapping and laser marking instead. Look like our flatness tolerance will be +- .0002" over the working back surface, with a surface finish of 5 microns...
> 
> ...



As Alf has guessed (hah!) price might be an issue unless someone can work miracles in production engineering:

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 25#message

BugBear


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## JesseM (18 Dec 2006)

bugbear":2j43h27v said:


> As Alf has guessed (hah!) price might be an issue unless someone can work miracles in production engineering:
> http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... 25#message
> BugBear


My gut tells me thats a bit high. I would guess around $250-$300 cause I don't think it sell well for that much. But my prediction is much less precise :wink:


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## MikeW (18 Dec 2006)

My feeling is that a LV one will be better positioned price wise than a LN one.

But...think of what the Clifton combo costs. I would think that seeing how they keep making them, they at least turn a small profit.

It will be interesting to see where these planes get positioned as regards pricing.

Take care, Mike


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## bugbear (18 Dec 2006)

MikeW":25ngp5m9 said:


> But...think of what the Clifton combo costs. I would think that seeing how they keep making them, they at least turn a small profit.



It always strikes me as nothing short of astonishing that those (presumably, as you say) sell, given the wide availability of (very) good condition originals by Record and Stanley for much less money.

The Clifton blades appear good (and a little thicker than Record/Stanley), but the fit 'n' finish on the other parts is not as excellent as one might hope at the price.

BugBear


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## pidgeonpost (18 Dec 2006)

I have a model 50 which I bought from a market stall. It was virtually unused, and after a few abortive attempts it went back in the box until I could find some clues on how to use it. 
It seems that the cutter height adjustment is very critical. For example, you start off by removing no stock at all, lower the cutter by 0.000005" and digs in like a good un! 
Never really figured out why it should be quite so finicky - probably just me. I have used it occasionally for the odd moulding, and when it works it's quite satisfying. Am I right in thinking that when you create the cut you should start at the remote end of the timber? Seem to remember reading that somewhere...

Speak, Oh Alf...


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## bugbear (18 Dec 2006)

pidgeonpost":pn75jzlt said:


> I have a model 50 which I bought from a market stall. It was virtually unused, and after a few abortive attempts it went back in the box until I could find some clues on how to use it.
> It seems that the cutter height adjustment is very critical. For example, you start off by removing no stock at all, lower the cutter by 0.000005" and digs in like a good un!
> Never really figured out why it should be quite so finicky - probably just me.



That sounds like either a concave sole (skate), or a blade that's not clamped down on it's bedding firmly.

In either case, as soon as the blade juuust touches, there's a flex, and the blade bites deeply.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (18 Dec 2006)

pidgeonpost":3owpq9yd said:


> Am I right in thinking that when you create the cut you should start at the remote end of the timber? Seem to remember reading that somewhere...



The perceived wisdom is that, as you say, you start the cut at the end furthest away from you and work backwards. However, you can do it the other way if you work carefully. 

When adjusting the cutters, always ensure that the sides of the skates are level with the outside edges of the cutter or just inside - NEVER outside as this will stop it cutting.

There are various manuals on Alf's site here which will help you http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/combinationplanes.html

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (20 Dec 2006)

Alf":2hp5f9nz said:


> Yeah, same deal as a flea market I believe. Everything from clothes, ancient and modern, to toys, to plants to tools. Dealers with whole vans of boxes laid out to the bloke clearing out his garage and piling it all on a shaky wallpapering table. Lot of the latter today. We came to the conclusion that either a) a lot of people getting out their Christmas decs had found boxes of junk in the way and decided to get rid of them. Or b) SWMBO said "clear the garage! I've got to put all the stuff from the spare room in there if your sister's going to stay over Christmas" :lol: In consequence a fairly eclectic selection to choose from, but got a few gems including a rather lovely boxwood spokeshave I'm rather pleased with and a fascinating take on the multi-tip screwdriver.
> 
> Cheers, Alf


  Sounds like fun Alf. 

The local markets I go to can be like that. Strange, how you can turn up for months and find nothing but overpriced junk.....then all of a sudden something rare turns up priced cheap . Thats when you often don't have enough to buy it. :roll: 

But I've found it important to be an early bird though..... Our car load of kids doesn't really get there until later in the day unfortunetly. Usually with one kid on my back in one of those carry backback things....another in my right arm covered in icecream, leaving my left hand fumbling with all the old tools. (I dropped one once  ....still feel quilty about it...didn't break, but the guy didn't notice  but still....)

But its getting harder to find affordable old tools I've noticed. As though everybodies getting into it....the sellers seem to be upping their prices every week.


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## Vormulac (21 Dec 2006)

I got my new (ok, pretty old actually) Lewin in the post yesterday - yaay! It's purrrdy  Ok, needs a bit of tlc as the steel bits are showing their age as are the cutters. 
I guess a liberal application of WD40 to loosen everything up followed by the gentle application of some fine wire wool to remove the sort of pre-rust patina that's appearing on the steel bits?

Thanks for your suggestion Alf, even if I don't get on with it as a tool, it's an interesting piece of kit 

V.


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## bugbear (21 Dec 2006)

Vormulac":nxzifzha said:


> I guess a liberal application of WD40 to loosen everything up followed by the gentle application of some fine wire wool to remove the sort of pre-rust patina that's appearing on the steel bits?



Yep, that should be fine; I'd recommend only 0000 wire wool, and if that doesn't work, add some solvol autosol chrome polish.

Despite being called polish, it provides SUBSTANTIAL extra bite, it's really more of a gentle abrasive.

After this you're into (800 or finer) SiC, but avoid if possible.

BugBear


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## Vormulac (21 Dec 2006)

Thanks BugBear, I'll certainly go easy on it. I need to get some new wire wool actually, can you recommend somewhere that has the 0000 stuff?

Cheers!

V.


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## bugbear (21 Dec 2006)

Vormulac":3k03fevr said:


> Thanks BugBear, I'll certainly go easy on it. I need to get some new wire wool actually, can you recommend somewhere that has the 0000 stuff?



Err. Certainly. Thorns in Norwich, but I'm not sure that'll help you ... ?!!

BugBear


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## Vormulac (21 Dec 2006)

LOL  I was thinking more of any chains you were aware of such as Halfords or Homebase or something - but thanks anyway :lol: 

V.


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## George_N (21 Dec 2006)

Vormulac":2qyv140x said:


> Thanks BugBear, I'll certainly go easy on it. I need to get some new wire wool actually, can you recommend somewhere that has the 0000 stuff?
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> V.



I got 0000 steel wool in my local Homebase. It's funny, they are almost completely useless for tools (in fact almost everything) but they stock better finishes and associated sundries than most DIY sheds around here.


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