# Making a drum sander



## inandout (11 Oct 2006)

Is there any reason why I shouldn't adapt my 12 inch planer/thicknesser into a drum sander by removing the knives and attaching sandpaper to the cutter block Has anyone tried this? On the same theme could you attach sandpaper to a spindle moulder cutter block?


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## Scrit (11 Oct 2006)

I'll give you several:

1. Your p/t will probably have a cutterblock diameter of 2 to 3in which will mean that you aren't going to be able to wrap a lot abrasive round it. That means the abrasive will "load-up" extremely quickly, clog and then scorch the work. Most drum sander plans seem to talk about 12in or greater diameter drums to overcome this. The trade used drum sanders from WWI onwards, but changed over to wide belt sanders (like a portable belt sander, but with an 8ft long belt). In order to avoid loading up the abrasives trade drum sanders sometimes had as many as six or even eight drums

2. Your cutterblock is spinning way too fast - probably somewhere between 5,000 and 10,000 rpm (even my industrial planer does 5,000 rpm with a 4in cutterblock) - so that will scorch the work as well

3. Your cutterblock will need to have inserts to get you a smooth surface to the drum

4. The feeder mechanism in a planer is at the wrong side of the work - sanders have a belt feed on the underside of the work for smooth feeding, and you do need a constant feed speed for consistent results

5. The infeed roller will mark the face of the work if it is a conventional thicknesser smooth outfeed roller with a serrated infeed roller - they are designed for use with a 0.5mm or deeper cut (which takes the infeed marks out)

If you are still keen I have a few links for home-built drum sanders:

http://www.mimf.com/archives/thickness_sander2.htm

http://www.rockslide.org/drum sander.html

http://www.moritzdesigns.com/sander/sander.html

http://www.nicks.ca/Toolkits.html#sander1

http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/readarticle.pl?dir=powertools&file=articles_528.shtml

Enjoy!

Scrit


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## inandout (11 Oct 2006)

Scrit

Thanks, that was very useful, I am glad I posted before trying it, thanks for the links also.


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## Ed451 (11 Oct 2006)

If you want to build your own drum sander, check this out:

http://www.stockroomsupply.com/V_Drum_Sander.php


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## Shultzy (11 Oct 2006)

As well as Scrit's comments (very informative, as usual) how are you going to get the sandpaper off when you have finished. The resetting of planer blades is also not easy or quick. With sharp blades you should'nt need much sanding. Anyway why would you need a drum sander?


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## luthier49 (12 Oct 2006)

Here`s a mini thickness sander I made using my Carbatec Mini lathe. I made this to thickness musical instrument sides, ( guitars, mandolins etc. ), and to make overlay veneers for the machine heads of stringed instruments. I have a variable speed control for this machine, and you can see some 1mm veneer I`ve made with it on top of the machine. The abrasive is wrapped around the drum and held in place each end with tape.


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## mrbingley (12 Oct 2006)

I really like the idea of the v-drum sander.
Seems so simple with no complicated settings to manage.
I've got a couple of unused motors sitting doing nothing.
A visit to the scrapyard is on my list  

Chris.


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## Anonymous (12 Oct 2006)

Thanks for the links Scrit - I am tempted to make a steel version of the second one and implement a power feed.....


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## Scrit (12 Oct 2006)

Hi Tony

I didn't put the full set on last night, but there a couple more which might be worth a peek:

http://www.ukuleles.com/BuildingHowTo/sandthck.html

http://community.webshots.com/album/223700029vUZYCp

The only other link I have, for the V-drum, has already been discussed. Prior to the introduction of the wide belt sander from the USA in the 1950s many machinery manufacturers made wide drum sanders such as this:






_*Above: White BDA triple drum sander, c.1950*_

The drums were covered in hard felt to allow some "give" when sanding. To reduce clogging of the papers these machines frequently employed mechanisms to oscillate the drums from side to side in much the same way as you'd see on something like a Volpato edge sander. Ultimately they were displaced by the wide belt sander (again with oscillation). For reference here's a cross sectional drawing of a Sherrill-pattern wide belt sander of the 1950s:






The basic design principles are all there and I've seen industrial drum sanders built along the same lines. I think that is the clearest diagram I have seen on the principles of wide belt/drum sanding and explains the requirements well.

Of course another alternative is to go to the long-stroke sander design like this:






The downside to these machines is that they are fairly big and that the belt on a 6ft machine is about 5 metres long and so costs £20 plus (they are frequently cloth-backed abrasive and you need to buy them in fives or tens of each grit you use). Up until the 1960s it was still possible to buy wheel kits to build these yourself.

Scrit


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## Scrit (14 Oct 2006)

As a postscript and to add to the body of knowledge on this type of machine here are some photos of a 300mm wide joinery sander with a short belt and overhead feed. These machines are opensided so it is possible to feed 600mm through them in 2 passes although that will leave witness marks which need to be hand sanded out:
















I believe that the basic design could be reproduced with a drum in place of the belt (simpler)

Scrit


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## Anonymous (14 Oct 2006)

I think accurate alignment of the upper and lower sections will be the issue - particularly when adjusting to thickness


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## mel (14 Oct 2006)

got a few questions myself 
1 what speed is best for the sander head ???? 
2 where do you buy the velcro covered sander "head" in the uk ??
3 is the abrasive "velcro backed" available in the uk ???
4 are the bearings available to order , the type which bolt down . and are they called the same here in the uk ?? 

thats all that comes to mind for the moment 
all replys appreciated 
mel


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## Scrit (14 Oct 2006)

Tony":1ry321nq said:


> I think accurate alignment of the upper and lower sections will be the issue - particularly when adjusting to thickness


That's the beauty of the sanding drum under table approach - it should be much easier to align IMHO. The feeder doesn't need to be positioned that accurately so long as the feed wheels are sufficiently compliant (soft enough). You can't thickness sand with a Ghermandi-style sander, but it will get you to 120 or 150 grit very quickly



mel and john":1ry321nq said:


> 1 what speed is best for the sander head ????


Work feed or rotation speed? I'll try to look up some appropriate values from some of the sanders I have info on and post that.



mel and john":1ry321nq said:


> 2 where do you buy the velcro covered sander "head" in the uk ??


I believe 3M (UK HQ Bracknell?) make the hook material used for hook and loop abrasives



mel and john":1ry321nq said:


> 3 is the abrasive "velcro backed" available in the uk ???


3M (Scotch), Mirka and Klingspor all do rolls of loop-backed material - although it isn't cheap. Actually the drum sanders like the American Performax range use standard paper-backed abrasive and clip it onto the drum - that is going to be a lot cheaper



mel and john":1ry321nq said:


> 4 are the bearings available to order , the type which bolt down . and are they called the same here in the uk ??


Maybe one of the engineers would like to answer this, but I believe that the bearings are called plummer blocks (?). Picador in Sheffield used to make them and Simbles in Watford were a well known retail outlet. Hepco Motion certainly used to sell them as well but I don't know if they're still in the market.

Scrit


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## Anonymous (14 Oct 2006)

This is what I use, its the most expensive piece of kit in my workshop, but I can honestly say its worth every penny and I would really struggle without it now.





950mm wide, can sand 40-50 small cabinet doors, ie a good size kitchen in 10-15 minutes.

All come out bueatifully flat, god bless machines, for me the most tedious job used to be sanding everything by hand or small belt sanders.


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## Scrit (14 Oct 2006)

The only problem with them, Senior, is the price...... I used to find it cheaper to buy time on someone else's machine (triple belt CNC jobbie with a cross sanding belt - brilliant machine, but at around £80k I should hope so)

That's not to say I wouldn't like one to replace my Wadkin stroke sander......

Scrit


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## Anonymous (14 Oct 2006)

Yes its difficult to justify the price but believe me it its worth every penny.
As for using someone elses machine, I have people coming in to use mine.

Once you've got one, you use it none stop, all my frame work goes through it, panels, doors, drawer fronts, skirting, work tops, veneer boards etc it really is endless.


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## SketchUp Guru (14 Oct 2006)

Just for ideas if you want to build one, take a look at this.


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## Scrit (15 Oct 2006)

senior":9hcyi6za said:


> As for using someone elses machine, I have people coming in to use mine.


I used to trade CNC time for it, so it was effectively a no-brainer. But for small shop or home shops a device like that (or for that matter a CNC P2P) is out of the question

Scrit


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## DaveL (15 Oct 2006)

Scrit":3llrmhgy said:


> mel and john":3llrmhgy said:
> 
> 
> > 4 are the bearings available to order , the type which bolt down . and are they called the same here in the uk ??
> ...


 
Looks like Picadorstill make them  

I still have a grinder I made in the 70's from an old washing machine motor, some angle iron and a Picador shaft.


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## Scrit (15 Oct 2006)

Blimey, Mel, Grimsby! Looks like you're in luck

Scrit


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## Inspector (15 Oct 2006)

> Of course another alternative is to go to the long-stroke sander design like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Scrit 
There is a small company in Quebec by the name of Viel Tools that make a stroke sander kit. (I know that it may not be cost effective to buy and ship to Europe, but for those on this continent.) The company doesn't (unfortunately) have a web site. The kit consists of the plans, 8" drums, shafts and bearings, elevating screws and chains, wheel covers and all other hardware for about $500 Canadian. The only things not supplied are the motor, electrics, and wood. It takes a belt that's 6" x156" long over a table that is 24" x 50" and is designed to tilt the entire belt assembly 90 degrees to use as a horizontal edge sander. I haven't bought one yet but its near the top of my want list.


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## mel (15 Oct 2006)

cant get the picador website up at the moment 
is their a distributor for picador in my area scrit ???


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## Scrit (15 Oct 2006)

Mel

According to Dave's link Picador are now at:

103 Louth Road
Holton le Clay
Grimsby
DN36 5AD
ENGLAND
Tel: (01472) 824520 
Fax: (01472) 824520
Email: [email protected]

I'd always thought they were a Sheffield company  

Inspector

I've come across Viel before, mainly because they make a very low cost profile grinder - and they used to make one of the Lee Valley grinders, didn't they? Didn't know what else they did, though. Thanks for the heads-up!

Scrit


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## Scrit (15 Oct 2006)

I just followed that reference by Dave R through - and found this beauty

Scrit


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## mel (15 Oct 2006)

scrit , thats more along the lines of what i was thinking :^o


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## mel (17 Oct 2006)

for anyone still interested in this topic 
ive sent an email to stock room supply . asking for their shipping cost to uk 
express airmail $105 
by boat $55 
link here 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... L:RTQ:UK:1
add that to the cost of the kit and it kills it . shame 

just an after thought on this 
would it be possible to use an industrial conveyer belt roller with an outside diameter of approx 4" ??? it may work out cheaper . i think that these are made of a hard rubber compound material ??? 
the pillow block bearings seem readily available at a cost of £14 plus vat per pair {sourced locally}


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## mel (27 Oct 2006)

just me left in the 
"build your own drum sander" thread then ??? 
someone else must be building one of these 

it would be nice to compare notes if anyone is self building


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## ivan (27 Oct 2006)

For local supplies of plummer blocks, pulleys, shafting, chain transmission etc look in yellow pages, probably under bearing supplies, or electric motors. If you go in to the trade counter with some sketches and they're not busy you'll get a lot of help on what's available/best for your job (if not, try the next one, most towns have several) Most can do small machining jobs on the items they sell.


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## John p (27 Oct 2006)

Hi mel + john , i've built one using a mix of the best of the free plans already linked and some plans bought. It worked ok for me . Plummers block bearings look like a heavier duty pillow block to me ( i ain't no engineer) , i used pillow blocks to take a one inch shaft ( £45 from the steel merchant would only sell me a full 2 meter length ) then drilled this three or four times ( can't remeber ) for a 8mm pin about 100mm long to stop the mdf discs slipping . My drum is 6 inch diameter and 24 inches wide , using ordinary cloth backed sandpaper at £3.00 meter. Pm me if you want the plans i had to buy. The plans was worth it for the method of drum construction alone


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## mel (27 Oct 2006)

thanks john 
private mail sent 
looking forword to your reply 
regards 
mel


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## Gill (3 Jun 2007)

Has anyone else made a sander along the lines of Bob Deacon's lathe attachment? I can see me making one of those but I'm a little concerned about how much strain would be put on a lathe motor. The smallest drum sander that APTC sells has a 1200w motor whereas most lathes have much less powerful motors, with mini lathes often being less than 400w. I would use the sanding attachment very frequently and I'm worried about burning out the motor.

Gill


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## madere (29 Jul 2009)

Scrit":fqdn76ba said:


> As a postscript and to add to the body of knowledge on this type of machine here are some photos of a 300mm wide joinery sander with a short belt and overhead feed. These machines are opensided so it is possible to feed 600mm through them in 2 passes although that will leave witness marks which need to be hand sanded out:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



buenas tardes
tengo una maquina igual a la que muestra en la fotografia, la compre de segunda mano y pienso que ha sido modificada ya que no esta alimentando bien la madera, no arrastra, seria posible conseguir con usted fotos o planos de como es el sitema de alimentacion para ver si puedo corregir mi maquina

gracias


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## Limpet (2 Aug 2009)

A couple of pics of my home made drum sander.


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