# Water (and other things) Divining



## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

I have brought this over from another thread in case anyone is interested in the arcane mysteries of Divining.
Nobody really knows but it’s suspected in our long distant past we could use this sense to detect all sorts of things in our daily life much as we do with sight and smell, probably for finding underground foodstuffs and safe drinking water, and that since then it has fallen into disuse. I believe in it from personal experience, but as soon as you try to prove it works your brain shuts off the ability- very strange indeed and frustrating.
I went on a one day course once to learn how to do it and it was "literally stunning", the two guys were, as I’ve since found out, the leading experts in the UK and I bought their fascinating book, since lent and lost! It seems that virtually everybody has the ability to Divine but some have it more than others.
The equipment needed is very simple, some use a Y shaped hazel twig but I use two Bic pen tubes each with an L shaped bit of metal wire, the short ends drop into the tubes and the longer bits (about 15” ) you have sticking out in front of you. Think about what you are trying to find, say your water supply, as you walk across it’s path the rods that were parallel swing towards each other and may cross, the pipe will be under your feet not the rods.
You have to concentrate on what it is you’re trying to find, this can be helped by having a sample in the palm of one hand as you detect, we were told that a lot of what we find isn’t still in the ground in a physical form but the chemical elements are still there to be detected.
About eight of us novices were sent out on our own with our rods and little flags to see what we could find in a field in Sussex and fairly soon a perfect circle of flags showed the post holes from a round house, wood ash in the centre, two lines of fragments of bronze from the wheel rims of carts, with reindeer droppings in a straight line between them – no I hadn’t realised that they used reindeer instead of horses in the bronze age either, on both sides of the bronze tracks we detected the run off from thatch on buildings and elsewhere an underground stream, the banked lane leading past the site was we were later told, from the period.
Once whatever you’re looking for has been detected it’s possible to then try again with the thought in your mind of how deep is it? and as you walk away from the source, the distance moved before the rods cross is how deep the item is.
It isn’t an exact science and confusing misinformation can send you off in the wrong direction sometimes. 
It’s also possible to find objects by detecting the direction that the object is in and then doing it again from a different direction and where the lines cross is where the object is, though I haven’t done this.
I’m told it’s possible to divine over huge distances by using a map of the area where are you are trying to find something but I’ve never tried it, - stories of finding missing people.
I still have my rods and used them not so long ago to find the exact line taken by the water supply to my house.
Btw it isn’t the rods picking up whatever it is, it’s you, the rods are only there for your brain to move your hands slightly which makes the rods move.
Ian


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## Trainee neophyte (1 Nov 2021)

When I was about ten it was common to go dowsing with two bits of bent wire in emptied out biro stems. We all got reactions from various things, but being ten no one had the enthusiasm to dig up whatever it might be to find out what it was that caused the reaction. Making your own entertainment can only be taken _so_ far.

My local dowsers use a piece of stiff wire or welding rod - about 3 feet long - which is held out horizontally in front of the dowser, and it bounces up and down if water is detected the bigger the bounce, the more water is available. Water being a) a scarce resource and b) not very easy to find in an semi - arid climate, dowsers are much respected and always believed. Boreholes here tend to be anything from 70 to 120 metres deep, therefore expensive, so a dowser is always consulted. (My personal opinion is that we are 3km from the sea and 70 metres gets you below sea level - finding water there is hardly a surprise).

There are scientific studies which suggest that dowsing is no less successful than just randomly drilling in places that look right topologically, so who knows? What I can say is that I really, really need/want to be able to dowse accurately for water, but I seem not to have the skill. Oh well. Perhaps I should try again with the pen and coat hanger method.

As an aside, one of our dowsers once told me that some people who can't dowse, can do it if a real dowser puts a hand on their shoulder. It didn't work for me


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

Mi


Trainee neophyte said:


> When I was about ten it was common to go dowsing with two bits of bent wire in emptied out biro stems. We all got reactions from various things, but being ten no one had the enthusiasm to dig up whatever it might be to find out what it was that caused the reaction. Making your own entertainment can only be taken _so_ far.
> 
> My local dowsers use a piece of stiff wire or welding rod - about 3 feet long - which is held out horizontally in front of the dowser, and it bounces up and down if water is detected the bigger the bounce, the more water is available. Water being a) a scarce resource and b) not very easy to find in an semi - arid climate, dowsers are much respected and always believed. Boreholes here tend to be anything from 70 to 120 metres deep, therefore expensive, so a dowser is always consulted. (My personal opinion is that we are 3km from the sea and 70 metres gets you below sea level - finding water there is hardly a surprise).
> 
> ...


Might be that you don’t believe in your ability to do it, somebody on the other thread mentioned that you might do a lot better after a few drinks! Any excuse lol. Start with something that you know is there like an electric cable.


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## Ollie78 (1 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Might be that you don’t believe in your ability to do it, somebody on the other thread mentioned that you might do a lot better after a few drinks! Any excuse lol. Start with something that you know is there like an electric cable.



But if you know its there won`t your mind "make " it work. To test surely you have to not know its there ?
I am going to try it to find my missing drain, if I can`t do it i will get my kids to try maybe their brains should be less jaded and cynical than mine.


Ollie


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

True but I thought to start him off with something easy, 
Believe me, jaded and cynical isn’t a problem! Hope it works


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## Ttrees (1 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> the two guys were, as I’ve since found out, the leading experts in the UK and I bought their fascinating book, since lent and lost!



I had a good laugh at that one, I think we all know a few folks like that.
At least that person has _lesser_ chance of borrowing your *tools* now.


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## doctor Bob (1 Nov 2021)

Seen it done twice, both failed. Even though they reckoned it never failed.


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## Ozi (1 Nov 2021)

My Father in law dowses, which was just one more piece of evidence that it all fell out of the back end of a male bovine. Until when working on my drive way I wanted to know where an electric cable ran. He tried to dowse for it (we knew where it left the house and ended at the gate posts) but got confused just at the point we wanted to know about. He persuaded me to try, I don't believe (still don't) got the same result headed around in a big circle about half way along, went around 3 times then off to the gate posts. Gave up and dug along the cable very carefully to the point we got confused and unearthed 3 large coils in the cable about 3m diameter. talking to the builder they connected the lights before they laid the drive and wanted to keep it out of the way so made it long. I still don't want to believe, know the "power" disappears in scientific studies but still walked 3 circles while saying "see it's all rubbish". It's very strange and I don't like it!


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## Sporky McGuffin (1 Nov 2021)

If anyone can do it, it'd qualify for the James Randi Foundation million dollar challenge. 

As far as I know the prize remains unclaimed.


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

I


doctor Bob said:


> Seen it done twice, both failed. Even though they reckoned it never failed.


Oh no! it shocks me every time when it does work, but I wouldn’t say it was every time by all means, depends what’s going on in your head at the time I think. Ian


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

Ozi said:


> My Father in law dowses, which was just one more piece of evidence that it all fell out of the back end of a male bovine. Until when working on my drive way I wanted to know where an electric cable ran. He tried to dowse for it (we knew where it left the house and ended at the gate posts) but got confused just at the point we wanted to know about. He persuaded me to try, I don't believe (still don't) got the same result headed around in a big circle about half way along, went around 3 times then off to the gate posts. Gave up and dug along the cable very carefully to the point we got confused and unearthed 3 large coils in the cable about 3m diameter. talking to the builder they connected the lights before they laid the drive and wanted to keep it out of the way so made it long. I still don't want to believe, know the "power" disappears in scientific studies but still walked 3 circles while saying "see it's all rubbish". It's very strange and I don't like it!


Obviously a natural! I think you ought to get your own set and "not like it" a bit more.
That was a strange one.


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## doctor Bob (1 Nov 2021)

Ozi said:


> My Father in law dowses, which was just one more piece of evidence that it all fell out of the back end of a male bovine. Until when working on my drive way I wanted to know where an electric cable ran. He tried to dowse for it (we knew where it left the house and ended at the gate posts) but got confused just at the point we wanted to know about. He persuaded me to try, I don't believe (still don't) got the same result headed around in a big circle about half way along, went around 3 times then off to the gate posts. Gave up and dug along the cable very carefully to the point we got confused and unearthed 3 large coils in the cable about 3m diameter. talking to the builder they connected the lights before they laid the drive and wanted to keep it out of the way so made it long. I still don't want to believe, know the "power" disappears in scientific studies but still walked 3 circles while saying "see it's all rubbish". It's very strange and I don't like it!



So not only can he pick up electrical flow but he can separate 3 coils on top of each other. Seriously someone with this ability should be a stage show or a high salary employee of an electric company or water company. Why doesn't he claim the Randi paranormal prize, seriously it's a million dollars, would be easy for him.


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## Ozi (1 Nov 2021)

To be honest it really creeped me out. Many people have tried to claim the Randi prize and it's still not claimed, like I said I don't believe it's anything paranormal just one of those weird things beyond my ken


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

Ozi said:


> To be honest it really creeped me out. Many people have tried to claim the Randi prize and it's still not claimed, like I said I don't believe it's anything paranormal just one of those weird things beyond my ken


 I know how you felt, after that days course of revelations I had a long drive home and it just kept going round and round in my mind, yes I think it is just one of those weird things that we can’t explain yet, and to compound the problem as soon as you try and test it, it doesn’t work as many people have found.


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## Sandyn (1 Nov 2021)

All very interesting. I'm going to try it tomorrow, but with a less skeptical mind, if possible The Randi challenge stopped in 2015. Randi retired and his foundation now hands out grants to people wanting to find drains in their drive.


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## doctor Bob (1 Nov 2021)

In my youth I was often abducted by aliens, usually happened on a Friday or Saturday night, I'd be down the pub having a great time, next thing I'd be waking up in ................. (fill in the blank) on Sunday morning, goodness knows why they had to dung down my throat, extract every drop of moisture from my body and shrink my brain till it rattled.


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## Cabinetman (1 Nov 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> extract every drop of moisture from my body and shrink my brain till it rattled.


Hmmm, well that explains a lot lol


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## pe2dave (2 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I have brought this over from another thread in case anyone is interested in the arcane mysteries of Divining.
> Nobody really knows but it’s suspected in our long distant past we could use this sense to detect all sorts of things in our daily life much as we do with sight and smell, probably for finding underground foodstuffs and safe drinking water, and that since then it has fallen into disuse. I believe in it from personal experience, but as soon as you try to prove it works your brain shuts off the ability- very strange indeed and frustrating.
> I went on a one day course once to learn how to do it and it was "literally stunning", the two guys were, as I’ve since found out, the leading experts in the UK and I bought their fascinating book, since lent and lost! ou, the rods are only there for your brain to move your hands slightly which makes the rods move.
> Ian


Can you remember the title / author of the book please?


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## DavidConnelly (2 Nov 2021)

My brother and his neighbours live in a remote area. Their water supply dried up. As a last resort and rather than paying the local authority a substantial fee, they tried a water diviner. They paid a small fee but also transportation costs.
The person who arrived was also a geologist and fairly (excuse the pun) down to earth.
He immediately identified where the old underground broken pipes were and two new spots. One of which now hosts a new well. Personally I think his knowledge of geology must have come into play, but if it works, it works.


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## Dee J (2 Nov 2021)

In a world of Newtonian physics it's clearly impossible. In a world of quantum physics everything is possible, but with vary degrees of possibility. But my mind rails against the idea of finding things that aren't clearly physical phenomena (so water flows and electricity seem most plausible) and dowsing a map, to me, approches the infinitely improbable (a worderful concept Douglas Adams).


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## Adam W. (2 Nov 2021)

I can find pipes and cables ok, but I am a little sceptical about some of the other claims.


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## Cabinetman (2 Nov 2021)

Adam W. said:


> I can find pipes and cables ok, but I am a little sceptical about some of the other claims.


 That’s understandable and I would probably have agreed with you if I hadn’t been there and done it myself, we all were getting the same readings, and as I said earlier I drove home in a daze thinking of the possibilities and what it all meant. Ian


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## Daniel2 (2 Nov 2021)

It doesn't work for hidden treasure hoards. I've tried it.


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## Cabinetman (2 Nov 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Can you remember the title / author of the book please?








The Secret Of The Stones: The Gate to a Lost World: Amazon.co.uk: Crockford, Geoffrey, Hughes, Nigel: 9780956292100: Books


Buy The Secret Of The Stones: The Gate to a Lost World by Crockford, Geoffrey, Hughes, Nigel (ISBN: 9780956292100) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.



www.amazon.co.uk




Sorry took a while to find it


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## Trainee neophyte (2 Nov 2021)

This may be of interest: Finding Water With A Forked Stick May Not Be A Hoax

_Researchers analyzed the successes and failures of dowsers in attempting to locate water at more than 2000 sites in arid regions of Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia and Yemen over a 10-year period. To do this, researchers teamed geological experts with experienced dowsers and then set up a scientific study group to evaluate the results. Drill crews guided by dowsers didn't hit water every time, but their success rate was impressive. In Sri Lanka, for example, they drilled 691 holes and had an overall success rate of 96 percent.

"In hundreds of cases the dowsers were able to predict the depth of the water source and the yield of the well to within 10 percent or 20 percent," says Hans-Dieter Betz, a physicist at the University of Munich, who headed the research group._

It isn't that I don't believe it works - I just can't do it reliably. Watching someone wander about with a stick and suddenly say "drill here - twenty metres down you will find a stream with 1,000 litres per minute" is mind - bending. However, if I get a drilling rig in, they will drill 80 metres, because they get paid by the metre, not by the amount of water. Which means I will have to drill 20 metres myself, by hand. Doable, but hard work. Easier is to run run a pipe to my neighbour who gives me unlimited water free of charge, as long as we dont fall out, that is.


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## Cabinetman (2 Nov 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> This may be of interest: Finding Water With A Forked Stick May Not Be A Hoax
> 
> _Researchers analyzed the successes and failures of dowsers in attempting to locate water at more than 2000 sites in arid regions of Sri Lanka, Zaire, Kenya, Namibia and Yemen over a 10-year period. To do this, researchers teamed geological experts with experienced dowsers and then set up a scientific study group to evaluate the results. Drill crews guided by dowsers didn't hit water every time, but their success rate was impressive. In Sri Lanka, for example, they drilled 691 holes and had an overall success rate of 96 percent.
> 
> ...


That was interesting thank you, that’s quite something when they have a success rate that high.


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## Sandyn (2 Nov 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Easier is to run run a pipe to my neighbour who gives me unlimited water free of charge, as long as we dont fall out, that is.


If you think that's easy.......the stuff just falls out of the sky in Scotland....regularly.


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## PeteHB (2 Nov 2021)

I was introduced to the art by an old excavator driver when we were working in a quarry with adjacent factory. He picked up water, gas and electricity supplies then gave me his rods and I walked with my eye closed over new ground and found an old victorian culvert. The sensation when the rods move and cross is magical . To this day I have a set of rods and use them occasionally.


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## slavedata (3 Nov 2021)

Back in the days of Yuri Geller spoon bending I tried this and was suprised to see that it works and I could do it with no effort. ( 2 right angled sticks or metal rods loosely held in fists on verticals horizontals pointing forward) Sticks swing round with no effort from myself as you walk over a watercourse. Since then have used it successfully several times.


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Actually had experience of an acclaimed water diviner, looking for a well in Wales. 
I had ideas on where would be best and his choices, with a bit of fiddling about with sticks, seemed to coincide closely with mine and with a sceptical water engineer pro who was also on the case.
Big margin of error anyway, dug several holes, so I think there's simply a near "subliminal" bit of common sense judgement going on, based sometimes on barely apparent indicators


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

Jacob said:


> Actually had experience of an acclaimed water diviner, looking for a well in Wales.
> I had ideas on where would be best and his choices, with a bit of fiddling about with sticks, seemed to coincide closely with mine and with a sceptical water engineer pro who was also on the case.
> Big margin of error anyway, dug several holes, so I think there's simply a near "subliminal" bit of common sense judgement going on, based sometimes on barely apparent indicators


 It’s a bit more than that Jacob, when it happens it’s a very strange sensation, and as I said we didn’t know what we were going to find in that field in Sussex, it wasn’t one person that found all the postholes from the roundhouse we all were doing it and marking what we found, and before we knew where we were there was a perfect circle marked out.
I suspect the presence of a sceptical doubting Thomas puts the kibosh on it. Ian


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I have brought this over from another thread in case anyone is interested in the arcane mysteries of Divining.
> Nobody really knows but it’s suspected in our long distant past we could use this sense to detect all sorts of things in our daily life much as we do with sight and smell, probably for finding underground foodstuffs and safe drinking water, and that since then it has fallen into disuse. I believe in it from personal experience, but as soon as you try to prove it works your brain shuts off the ability- very strange indeed and frustrating.
> I went on a one day course once to learn how to do it and it was "literally stunning", the two guys were, as I’ve since found out, the leading experts in the UK and I bought their fascinating book, since lent and lost! It seems that virtually everybody has the ability to Divine but some have it more than others.
> The equipment needed is very simple, some use a Y shaped hazel twig but I use two Bic pen tubes each with an L shaped bit of metal wire, the short ends drop into the tubes and the longer bits (about 15” ) you have sticking out in front of you. Think about what you are trying to find, say your water supply, as you walk across it’s path the rods that were parallel swing towards each other and may cross, the pipe will be under your feet not the rods.
> ...


Are you saying that this site was previously unrecorded and then excavated with all these items and details scientifically identified by archaeologists?
It sounds an astonishing achievement and presumably the work is on display somewhere now? Where is it?


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

Here we go, I knew I shouldn’t have poked you.


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Here we go, I knew I shouldn’t have poked you.


So that's a "No" then?


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

This could be a first, me and Jacob seem to have common ground.  I'm quite happy to state that I'm a total non believer.
Maybe my non believing spirit aura means it doesn't work around me.
I'm not convinced magicians saw those women in half either.


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## Sandyn (3 Nov 2021)

I tried dowsing today. Didn't work. I just couldn't make myself believe it would work and too focused on whether it would work or not. Wrong state of mind.


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

Oh well, for those of us who can do it we’re just glad that it does work, and as we will never convince you there’s no point trying, just leave you to your 5 senses whilst we enjoy our 6th. Ian


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Oh well, for those of us who can do it we’re just glad that it does work, and as we will never convince you there’s no point trying, just leave you to your 5 senses whilst we enjoy our 6th. Ian


Easily convinced - just need evidence!
Did your spectacular find get written up anywhere it sounds very newsworthy and must have taken up some weeks of painstaking excavations and analysis. Would have made a good TV prog by the sounds of it.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Nov 2021)

I had an acquaintance years ago who bored wells for a living - he used a diviner for every one. He was certain on one occasion that they wouldn't find water at all and after quite a while the diviner said he'd found some. This was a Friday afternoon, and on the Monday the property owner rang him up. Oh, don't tell me it's already run dry? he said. No, the chap said, I've got water down through the garden and hundreds of yards down the road. He'd hit an artesian well. The diviner's name was Donovan Wilkins, he was well known in the area.


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I had an acquaintance years ago who bored wells for a living - he used a diviner for every one. He was certain on one occasion that they wouldn't find water at all and after quite a while the diviner said he'd found some. This was a Friday afternoon, and on the Monday the property owner rang him up. Oh, don't tell me it's already run dry? he said. No, the chap said, I've got water down through the garden and hundreds of yards down the road. He'd hit an artesian well. The diviner's name was Donovan Wilkins, he was well known in the area.


Yes there's lots of stories like that Divining an Inspiration – Ann Foweraker
I don't believe any of them!
Next time you see your water board man outside in the street ask them if they use diviners. What they _do_ sometimes use is sounding rods with an ear piece so you can hear running water leaking under the road.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Nov 2021)

The guy made his living sinking wells - I don't suppose for one moment he paid the diviner for fun.

Why would the water board need someone to tell them where the water mains are? They put them there.


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> The guy made his living sinking wells - I don't suppose for one moment he paid the diviner for fun.
> 
> Why would the water board need someone to tell them where the water mains are? They put them there.


Actually they often don't know especially with old ones, and drains too. I've had this prob several times - stuff unrecorded or even non existent with drains going into soak-aways etc.
Ditto old gas pipes. We had an old meter here still connected to a pipe but out of use. Had to get gas board man in to check it out in case it was still connected to the mains. They had no record of it. Turned out to have been cut off years ago and the meter was so old it ended up in the The National Gas Museum in Leicester! Permanent loan - still mine if I find a sudden use for it!





The National Gas Museum


Home to the largest, most representative and most significant holding of material related to the gas industry ... anywhere in the world



www.nationalgasmuseum.org.uk


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## Trainee neophyte (3 Nov 2021)

Jacob said:


> Next time you see your water board man outside in the street ask them if they use diviners.





BBC NEWS | UK | England | Divining rods 'help beat drought'



"*Water company engineers are using divining rods to help tackle leaks and beat the drought in the South East.*
Southern Water said divining is used by some of its crews, although modern electrical equipment was mostly used. "


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## John Brown (3 Nov 2021)

Yes, I have read that water companies use dowsers.
Not a believer myself, but not going to argue.


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## Jacob (3 Nov 2021)

John Brown said:


> Yes, I have read that water companies use dowsers.
> Not a believer myself, but not going to argue.


I've read that millions of people take homeopathic remedies but I don't believe in them either.


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## John Brown (3 Nov 2021)

Jacob said:


> I've read that millions of people take homeopathic remedies but I don't believe in them either.


I might argue about that, so let's not go there...


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## Cozzer (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> ... I bought their fascinating book, since lent and _lost_!
> Ian



Can't you dowse for the book?


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## heimlaga (3 Nov 2021)

I have experimented a bit with dowser's twigs just from a mechanical point of wiew and found that the stresses in the twig when held in dowsing position makes it highly unstable so that it reacts to miniscule movements in your hands. Whenever you loose concentration ever so slightlyor step on an uneveness in the ground it will strike. Whenever you expect it to strike it will strike as well because you tend to do slight unconcious movements when you eagerly await a strike.
That is the simple science behind it. Walk across an even field where a slight depression where a pipe has been buried and the twig will strike when you step into the depression.


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## Sandyn (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> for those of us who can do it we’re just glad that it does work, and as we will never convince you there’s no point trying, just leave you to your 5 senses whilst we enjoy our 6th


It's not a case of having to be convinced. I am genuinely interested in it. I believe that there is something in it, but I like to try to find explanations in science. Our body has sensors to pick up electromagnetic radiation at very low levels, so there might be some other sensors which are long dormant, but still there.
I have had a few 'paranormal' experiences. Most of them, I have had an explanation for, but a couple of them they still baffle me.


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Oh well, for those of us who can do it we’re just glad that it does work, and as we will never convince you there’s no point trying, just leave you to your 5 senses whilst we enjoy our 6th. Ian



I have to say I'm incredibly impressed that you can dowse for ancient reindeer droppings, occasionally I can sniff Bull.

Don't worry too much about me, I'm very very sceptial and have a no nonsense approach to life. I don't believe in any of it.


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## Daniel2 (3 Nov 2021)

Skepticism is a very lazy approach to the wonders and mystery of life.


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

Daniel2 said:


> Skeptism is a very lazy approach to the wonders and mystery of life.



No it really isn't. I'd love you to convince me, just seems np one can do it when there is an audience or a control in place.
I've had plenty of wonders and mysteries and they really are over rated.


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

Sandyn said:


> It's not a case of having to be convinced. I am genuinely interested in it. I believe that there is something in it, but I like to try to find explanations in science. Our body has sensors to pick up electromagnetic radiation at very low levels, so there might be some other sensors which are long dormant, but still there.
> I have had a few 'paranormal' experiences. Most of them, I have had an explanation for, but a couple of them they still baffle me.


I also like scientific explanations but in this case it seems the scientists are a bit slow off the mark.
I think you’re right about long dormant senses, I feel that originally we would have been able to pinpoint without the use of aids, twigs rods, pendulums do nothing in themselves, they’re used to display the movements in our hands which is driven by our brains.


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## Ttrees (3 Nov 2021)

Is there not some animals that can do this, elephants can remember where the water is,
livestock and other animals can feel thunder, and whatnot,
I guess there is some animal which actually burrows to find water too?

Would love to try, but the place is full of springs so it would definitely work.

Glad I didn't hit one when doing the house drainage, phew!


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> No it really isn't. I'd love you to convince me, just seems np one can do it when there is an audience or a control in place.


That does seem to be the case, inconvenient or what! Why that should be I haven’t the faintest, but obviously it does open us believers up to criticism, at the very least.


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> That does seem to be the case, inconvenient or what! Why that should be I haven’t the faintest, but obviously it does open us believers up to criticism, at the very least.



I just want to clarify, I don't disbelieve you Ian, I'm sure what happened, happened. However, take mediums for example, can seem plausible but all are fakes. 
Your example, would seem perfect to film, a group of amateurs taught how to do it, finding old posts, droppings, iron wheels, amazing. Why not just film it.


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Is there not some animals that can do this, elephants can remember where the water is,
> livestock and other animals can feel thunder, and whatnot,
> I guess there is some animal which actually burrows to find water too?
> 
> ...


That’s an interesting tunnel, looks like you dug it through ironstone.
Lots of underground water? Try for electric cables, you can divine for all sorts of things. 
Soon as it stops raining I’m going to see what’s under my garden.


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Is there not some animals that can do this, elephants can remember where the water is,
> livestock and other animals can feel thunder, and whatnot,
> I guess there is some animal which actually burrows to find water too?



I can remember where water is as well. some animals can smell dampness.


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## Sandyn (3 Nov 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Is there not some animals that can do this, elephants can remember where the water is,


Birds use the earths magnetic field to navigate


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## Cabinetman (3 Nov 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I just want to clarify, I don't disbelieve you Ian, I'm sure what happened, happened. However, take mediums for example, can seem plausible but all are fakes.
> Your example, would seem perfect to film, a group of amateurs taught how to do it, finding old posts, droppings, iron wheels, amazing. Why not just film it.


I might just do that! I’ve found Roman pottery under my garden in the past, I’ll try holding a bit in my hand and quarter the area see what turns up.


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## doctor Bob (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I might just do that! I’ve found Roman pottery under my garden in the past, I’ll try holding a bit in my hand and quarter the area see what turns up.


how big's your garden, how accurate are we talking 100mm sq, 500mm sq, msq etc. If you know it's there maybe there are lots of bit's to find. This is what I mean about a controlled test.

I think I could dowse my garden for bricks and find one, seeing as how a demolished house is buried in it.


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## Ttrees (3 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> That’s an interesting tunnel, looks like you dug it through ironstone.
> Lots of underground water? Try for electric cables, you can divine for all sorts of things.
> Soon as it stops raining I’m going to see what’s under my garden.


Not much stone in that ground, mostly dab clay, the water was sitting there so was thankfully just a mucky job.
Partially inspired by El Chapo as it was around that time, and also the fact there is a run off from the sewer which could have been hit the other way.


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## RockFather (4 Nov 2021)

Haha what’s up with you “non believers” ?

I’ve used this technique many times with great success. It’s got nothing to do with magic or mumbo jumbo. It’s just a natural phenomenon that really does exist and can be exploited for benefit just like the wind or the Earth’s magnetic field. 
You don’t have to “believe” for it to work any more than you have to “believe” to be able to sail across the ocean or navigate with a compass


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## Rustic Mike (4 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Here we go, I knew I shouldn’t have poked you.


My doctor asked me do I have trouble passing water, I said no as I usually wear my wellies and a raincoat.


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## Jacob (4 Nov 2021)

Daniel2 said:


> Skepticism is a very lazy approach to the wonders and mystery of life.


Science is based on scepticism.


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## Jacob (4 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I might just do that! I’ve found Roman pottery under my garden in the past, I’ll try holding a bit in my hand and quarter the area see what turns up.


I've found all sorts of ancient bits of broken things in my gardens and i didn't even have to dowse for them! In one I found a Record No6 vice. A bit rusty but was usable. A much rarer find than roman pottery


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## Daniel2 (4 Nov 2021)

Jacob said:


> Science is based on scepticism.



Yes, that's a very fair point.
And I'm glad to see that you managed to spell scepticism correctly. 
I didn't.


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## TRITON (4 Nov 2021)

RockFather said:


> Haha what’s up with you “non believers” ?
> 
> I’ve used this technique many times with great success. It’s got nothing to do with magic or mumbo jumbo. It’s just a natural phenomenon that really does exist and can be exploited for benefit just like the wind or the Earth’s magnetic field.
> You don’t have to “believe” for it to work any more than you have to “believe” to be able to sail across the ocean or navigate with a compass


I find the whole subject fascinating. I've always has an interest in this and lay lines and magnetic areas and the like. So much we just cannot explain.

I remember a story years ago of some bloke who picked a lay line to top himself on, possibly thinking there would be some connection with a spirit world or such.
I've been on the Astral Plane, and once you've made that trip, nothing seems unbelievable any more.


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## Cabinetman (4 Nov 2021)

TRITON said:


> I've been on the Astral Plane, and once you've made that trip, nothing seems unbelievable any more.


Oooh er! Well that’s something else altogether. Open to new things, so please do tell.


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## TRITON (4 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Oooh er! Well that’s something else altogether. Open to new things, so please do tell.


It was in my yoof, experimenting with mind altering substances. In this case psilocybin. Apparently the usual dosage is a handful of the mushrooms, I took Shaman level of about half a kg.
Full visual hallucinations body and mind in complete separation.
I've no idea how or why this sort of imagery is locked up in our brains
Try reading here








Psychedelics and the Out-of-Body Experience


Are they related?




www.psychologytoday.com












Out-Of-Body Experiences: Mine Is Finally Explained


Part 15: Returning to my own OBE




www.psychologytoday.com




Much of what is being described by the subjects is the same experience i had. I think it best you read it rather than rely upon my rather fantastical tale. Plus they've more eloquence than me in their description.
“an experience in which you seem to perceive the world from a location outside the physical body”

Very very strange and tbh a bit frightening. For me i felt my consciousness leave my physical self* and travel upwards, through the solid walls of the house ever upwards. The space bit was the weird bit as you seem to view the planets off to the side of you(in my case to the left of me) and as we know the astronomical distances between the planets, the perception is that you are moving at tremendous speeds.

The visuals of geometry and fractals were bizarre, and it didnt matter if i had my eyes open or closed(Closed was actually more intense) This was about 30 years back and most of the experience is lost, but some of it is still clear and still so out of this world' its left me feeling theres ore going on in humans,nature and the universe than we'll ever understand only to say we are connected to it.

*Cant state this enough. There only appeared to be my mind in the experience, my body and the sensations of it were completely gone. It started off as a vibration in my legs, and traveled throughout into my torso, arms, head even my lips,ears and nose seemed to be connected with this sensation, but gradually the sensation though still strong throughout me seemed less important and my mind seemed to come to the fore.


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## ey_tony (4 Nov 2021)

Around 1975 I bought a very old house in need of full restoration and two things I needed to find were the incoming water supply route and the sewage drain. Both were unclear as I wanted to replace the lead piping for the water supply and re-route and relay the sewage pipe for the extension I was planning on building. I was chatting to a very elderly gentleman two houses away from the one I bought and mentioned my problem and he came around and used dowsing to find both for me and he was accurate. 
Like many people I too was sceptical about dowsing but I couldn't dismiss it merely as luck as he was spot on and he even showed me how to do it for myself.

Since then on more than a couple of occasions I've also used dowsing to find drains and water supplies on other properties or land with remarkable accuracy too.
I have a degree in Geophysics so my penchant is for science to explain things and not superstition, therefore I don't subscribe to most of the mumbo jumbo I come across in day to day living but I have tried dowsing for myself with success. I don't pretend that I can explain how it works, I only know that it does.

Whether everyone has the innate ability to dowse is another issue entirely.


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## PeteHB (4 Nov 2021)

heimlaga said:


> I have experimented a bit with dowser's twigs just from a mechanical point of wiew and found that the stresses in the twig when held in dowsing position makes it highly unstable so that it reacts to miniscule movements in your hands. Whenever you loose concentration ever so slightlyor step on an uneveness in the ground it will strike. Whenever you expect it to strike it will strike as well because you tend to do slight unconcious movements when you eagerly await a strike.
> That is the simple science behind it. Walk across an even field where a slight depression where a pipe has been buried and the twig will strike when you step into the depression.



I suggest that you get a couple of metal coat hangers, the type dry cleaners use and snip a length out of each of them to make a pair of rods and if you are worried about human interaction sleeve the bit you hold in your hand in a piece of metal tube. It actually seems to make the rods very sensitive.


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## Jacob (4 Nov 2021)

PeteHB said:


> I suggest that you get a couple of metal coat hangers, the type dry cleaners use and snip a length out of each of them to make a pair of rods and if you are worried about human interaction sleeve the bit you hold in your hand in a piece of metal tube. It actually seems to make the rods very sensitive.


You also have to dig and see if you have actually found _something you were expecting _- not just any old bit of medieval pottery or a ring pull!
Also ask how is it that metal detectorists are so successful, considering that dowsing has been going on (supposedly) from the year dot.
I'd put my money on these two any day. Dowsers wouldn't get a look in!


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## Jacob (4 Nov 2021)

If it works at all I expect it's because we mentally put together various clues, some of them unconsciously - barely noticeable little hints like crop marks etc. The main thing seems to be finding things which were expected in the first place, so there is a high probability.
Years ago I was into stone circles - having found a previously unrecorded example and getting it on the record. Y Capel stone circle – when will this madness stop?
We were told by locals that it was there up the valley somewhere but it took days of wandering about to locate it - because we didn't know exactly where to look.
I know now, obvious really - they are always near the top of a hill or even a shallow rise, but never actually at the very top, and they are always in spectacular landscape settings, the sort of place you'd stop for a picnic at least. Even in flattish landscapes they chose a strategic spots with the ground falling away to some extent. Have looked at dozens of circles in UK and Ireland too. Fitted it in with cycle touring
As a result my view of landscape has changed and find myself on the look out, especially when you get to the right sort of spot, and in fact that's where you find things - not necessarily unrecorded though! 
"Tuning in" but not in any mysterious way.
I might have found one other but haven't been back - a shallow rise in a peaty moorland landscape and the sense that this was the sort of place for a circle. Lo and behold - one isolated stone sticking up just above the peat, just near the top of the rise, in an otherwise stone free area. If I went back I'd poke around with a rod to find any others under the peat.


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## heimlaga (4 Nov 2021)

PeteHB said:


> I suggest that you get a couple of metal coat hangers, the type dry cleaners use and snip a length out of each of them to make a pair of rods and if you are worried about human interaction sleeve the bit you hold in your hand in a piece of metal tube. It actually seems to make the rods very sensitive.


Once upon a time I was working on the foundation for a new sauna for a well known dowzer hereafter called D. While we were at it D used those rods around the worksite and found a line of some sort that passed where the sauna stove and the chimney were to be and that caused lots of worries as D knew that would have an ill effect. The trech was already backfilled and we were about to start work on the shuttering for the concrete footing. D went inside to take care of some other business and while D was out of sight for a few hours I moved the marks that D had made to show us the position of the line so that the line coresponded with the shuttering we were assembling for a load bearing. D came out again to check the position of the line using the rods and of cause found it to correspond with the marks as I had positioned them.


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## Stuart Moffat (4 Nov 2021)

A few years ago, I needed to find a buried water pipe in a 150 yard run across my small holding. I had already expended a lot of energy digging down 4 feet for a length of about 20 feet, with a spade in the most obvious place it was likely to find it. No luck, so a friend came round to show me how to do dowsing. We tried for ages. No luck. So I bought a backhoe to go on my tractor. Found it (breaking the pipe in the process, but worth it,
!)


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## Jonm (4 Nov 2021)

Back in the 70’s a group of us bought a building site, split it up in to individual plots and each built our own house on our own plot, living in caravans on site. Initially bringing in water in containers which was no problem to me at the time. One guy had children and a flash mobile home (compared to my old 22 ft caravan) and was keen to get mains water quickly.

There had been an old house on the site but no visible signs on the surface. In the verge was a stop tap so we thought there was a pipe somewhere in a mass of old fences and undergrowth. Looking at digging a series of trial holes but would have to wait for a machine on site. Someone suggested dowsing so I got a couple of welding rods bent them at 90 degrees and wandered about the undergrowth, not a clue what I was doing, there seemed to be location where they crossed over. I marked the spot and left the guy with the mobile home to it, not expecting him to find anything. He dug down and very shallow, about a foot down he found the pipe. We ran a pipe in to all the caravans and also used it for building water.


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## Cabinetman (4 Nov 2021)

TRITON said:


> It was in my yoof, experimenting with mind altering substances. In this case psilocybin. Apparently the usual dosage is a handful of the mushrooms, I took Shaman level of about half a kg.
> Full visual hallucinations body and mind in complete separation.
> I've no idea how or why this sort of imagery is locked up in our brains
> Try reading here
> ...


Thanks for the description but not really my thing, I’ll stick to my own version of wierd- dowsing.


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## Sandyn (4 Nov 2021)

TRITON said:


> For me i felt my consciousness leave my physical self* and travel upwards, through the solid walls of the house ever upwards. The space bit was the weird bit as you seem to view the planets off to the side of you(in my case to the left of me) and as we know the astronomical distances between the planets, the perception is that you are moving at tremendous speeds.


That sounds like one hell of an experience! Just shows what the mind is capable of with a bit of chemical enhancement.


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## TRITON (4 Nov 2021)

Sandyn said:


> That sounds like one hell of an experience! Just shows what the mind is capable of with a bit of chemical enhancement.


Much of this type of experience have been recorded across the world and have references in religious mysticism, including Christianity and are in the bible, as well as American Indian culture.
I think during Mans search for foodstuffs someone way back ate something that contained the alkaloids and were blown away by it.

Although I think due to peoples negative view of today's drugs they form a misconception.


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## Adam W. (4 Nov 2021)

TRITON said:


> It was in my yoof, experimenting with mind altering substances. In this case psilocybin. Apparently the usual dosage is a handful of the mushrooms, I took Shaman level of about half a kg.
> Full visual hallucinations body and mind in complete separation.
> I've no idea how or why this sort of imagery is locked up in our brains
> Try reading here
> ...



Lordy, geometry and fractals, fancy that. We were having a chat about mushrooms and stuff today whilst looking at some drawings of 15th. century things.


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## PeteHB (8 Nov 2021)

Jacob said:


> You also have to dig and see if you have actually found _something you were expecting _- not just any old bit of medieval pottery or a ring pull!
> Also ask how is it that metal detectorists are so successful, considering that dowsing has been going on (supposedly) from the year dot.
> I'd put my money on these two any day. Dowsers wouldn't get a look in!
> 
> ...


Don't think they would do much good with non metallic stuff though but I am happy that I can find what I am looking for if others want to do it differently they are welcome.


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## Cabinetman (8 Nov 2021)

I can see why you might think that Pete, but not a lot of metal in underground water, and that’s what Dowsers usually look for. Ian


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