# Dodgy axminster/ bessey k body clamps



## Woody Alan (15 Feb 2007)

Hi All

Just ordered some 600mm & 1000mm k body style, but axminster brand, parallel cramps. The finish on the shorter ones is variable but they are OK I suppose. The 4 long ones though are dreadful, not only is the bar on them not straight, but not neccessarily bent in the same direction, they are also twisted. Obviously the bar stock they are using is rubbish. I have two choices stick the bar in a vice and heave and tweak them straight or send them back and start again.
If I were to swap them for Bessey's genuine (extra £5 a piece)can anyone assure me that 1000mm besseys are usually true i.e. not bent and twisted.
[rant mode]
This whole buying stuff is really starting to jar me off, it seems to be everything I want to buy these days, it's almost getting to the stage of paranoia where I daren't buy something because I know it'll be wrong and just give me grief. I avoided cheapo ally clamps and paid good money for these.
I said to a mate at work once, that if I were to buy a camera I would ask the assistant to put the first one he gives me back on the shelf and get me another one just so as to save me bringing it back later, when it goes wrong.
[rant over]

Alan


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## David C (15 Feb 2007)

I have no experience of the clamps.

However there are a lot of very disapointing tools around, one of the main reasons I put a basic list of tools that work, in my third book.

David Charlesworth

who recently bought a pink grinding wheel from APTC that was useless and generated huge amounts of heat. It was sent back.


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## Chris Knight (15 Feb 2007)

Alan,
I have never bought a bad (genuine) K body - they have all been excellent. 

I suggest you send the clamps back to Axminster - they are normally very good about returns. (Call first and get a return authorisation etc.)


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## Mdotflorida (15 Feb 2007)

Hi Woody

Bad luck. 

I wouldn't even try to make them right. You were sold goods not fit for purpose. Send them straight back. Who knows, it may help in the long run towards better quality control.

I can only speak for the Besseys I own (24 of them) to say they are all perfectly straight and true.

Jeff


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## Freetochat (15 Feb 2007)

Mdotflorida":2u7d6er5 said:


> I can only speak for the Besseys I own (24 of them) to say they are all perfectly straight and true.
> 
> Jeff



Me too. I have about 20, all good quality. I also have some uniklamps, which are ok, but if I was to buy again, I would stick with the k body.


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## manso (15 Feb 2007)

I got burned with Axminster's clone of Pony clamps. Axminster replaced, (with genuine Pony's), without a murmur. Result - when I want K-bodies I buy Bessey's. The buy, complain, replace cycle is, however, a bore.


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## Woody Alan (15 Feb 2007)

Hi

Thanks chaps, one and all, I have calmed down a bit now. I appreciate the support for the quality of the genuine Besseys, I will be on the phone tommorrow to Axminster and get it sorted. I just wish they would put in the write up for these clamps "If you think you are going to get a bargain clone of a Bessy forget it and pay the extra you cheapskate" I could live with that  Will I never learn? SWMBO said "I thought you were going to order the expensive ones, I wouldn't have known" I was kind of speechless. But then she followed it up with "Don't think that's an excuse to order what you like." I am confused, is it me? or is she just playing with my mind? I seem to have lost the ability to tell anymore.

Alan


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## Colin C (15 Feb 2007)

Woody Alan":29pqwj5n said:


> Hi
> 
> I am confused, is it me? or is she just playing with my mind? I seem to have lost the ability to tell anymore.
> 
> Alan



That is just how they want it :twisted: :roll:


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## Waka (15 Feb 2007)

Alan

I swear by Bessey, the longest I have is the 1.5m K body and have no problem with them at all, I also have a varietynof all the other clamps they do and would rcommend them to anyone.

Yes they are expensive, but you only buy once. My advice would be to send the Axminster ones back and either have a refund or add the extra for the bessy K bodies.


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## engineer one (15 Feb 2007)

whilst i can't guarantee bessey will ALWAYS be perfect, so far i have never known one which is not straight and true.

i have had mine for about 4 years now, and although abused, they stay straight and working well. :twisted: 
although they are not abused everyday, each day they stand around doing little, they make my heart lurch at all the expense not being used properly.
:roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Losos (15 Feb 2007)

Alan - You said:-

"is she just playing with my mind?"

OMG how well I know what you mean. :lol: :lol: better not say anymore :roll: 

Returning swiftly to the 'faulty, complain, return, replace' saga. Yes, it is a bore, but it's more than that, it's also time consuming, and as everyone knows 'time is money'


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## Alf (16 Feb 2007)

Woody Alan":25ka3sp6 said:


> SWMBO said "I thought you were going to order the expensive ones, I wouldn't have known" I was kind of speechless. But then she followed it up with "Don't think that's an excuse to order what you like." I am confused, is it me? or is she just playing with my mind?


It's perfectly logical - I'll translate: Ignorance is no defence, even if it's not _your_ ignorance but rather _her_ ignorance of the differences between cheap clamps and Besseys. While she admits she wouldn't have known if you'd bought the cheap ones or the expensive, equally you shouldn't see this as open season on buying whatever you damn well like _because in some way or other she *will* find out and you *will* suffer in consequence_... :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## Jasper Homminga (16 Feb 2007)

David C":31f1q4fz said:


> who recently bought a pink grinding wheel from APTC that was useless and generated huge amounts of heat


 I was thinking about buying one of those, but I'll leave them well alone now. Thanks. 

Jasper


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## Anonymous (16 Feb 2007)

Hi Alan

Are you sure you are not being too hard on the clamps?

Does the bar stop the clamp working? Does a variable finish stop them clamping? Is it really that bad?

Surely, the only important consideration is if they clamp correctly- I have never even considered whether the bars on my clamps are straight or not as I cannot see that it make the slightest bit of difference to their clamping ability unless they are proverbial bananas


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## Paul Chapman (16 Feb 2007)

Alf":3lg6j17a said:


> because in some way or other she *will* find out



One of life's mysteries, at least for us blokes.... :? :? :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Woody Alan (16 Feb 2007)

Tony



> Are you sure you are not being too hard on the clamps?


Fair point Tony, which is why I asked the collective if they considered any of their Besseys to be duff, if the reply was yes then I would be happy I had the same quality for less money.



> Does the bar stop the clamp working?


I guess if the bar is bent they cannot be described as parallel therefore it is not possible to get even pressure across the face of the jaws. 



> Does a variable finish stop them clamping?


No on it's own it would be bearable but it's like the final slap in the face on top of the general quality. 



> Surely, the only important consideration is if they clamp correctly


 Well indeed that is so and if I could bend the bars straight again and remove the twist, I am sure they would perform that function, but that isn't what the others seem to have to do with the Besseys, so back they go.

Alan


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## MarcW (16 Feb 2007)

I have the slight impression, here not only tools come out of the last centuries... :-s 

Marc, confused


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## Anonymous (16 Feb 2007)

Alan

I tend to use 'F' Clamps that cost less than a tenner each and they have always worked fine. If you consider Bessey's too expensive, then these are the clamps I find to be very effective and good value for money. I have loads of both types and have no complaints at all about their performance

Sash - bend these if you can!!!
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...amp-set/path/clamps-cramps-vices/brand/clarke

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/p...amp-set/path/clamps-cramps-vices/brand/clarke

F clamps

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/r...crew-workshop-clamps/path/clamps-cramps-vices


Every time I buy half a dozen of these F clmaps for the price of a Bessey, I smile contentedly :wink: They really are very good clamps


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## Woody Alan (16 Feb 2007)

Thanks for the links Tony I can certainly see where you're coming from.

Here's a couple of pics to try and show part of the problem. these hopefully show the twist but to show the bow is harder unless I line up with a straight edge.


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## SeanG (16 Feb 2007)

David C":18hdlkbp said:


> who recently bought a pink grinding wheel from APTC that was useless and generated huge amounts of heat. It was sent back.



ARRRRGGGGGG - is that why the pink wheel I bought from them keeps bluing my blades, I thought I was being heavy handed (probably also the case)


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## ByronBlack (16 Feb 2007)

Woody

Personaly, I don't think the twist is that bad, and shouldn't take too long to rectify it. I would weigh up the time involved to fix the twist to the hassle of packing them up, sending them back, and getting replacements/refund.

I would view them as the same as a cheaper plane - you'll have to do a little bit of tuning to get it up to standard, if you want the real quality, then you spend a little more and don't have to do the tuning nessacary, I don't think it's a real mission to get them back straight again. 

I've used a lot of axminsters cheap sach cramps, even the ally ones, and they have always been good enough to get a good glue up despite the cheap finish and lack of perfect straightness.


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## Woody Alan (16 Feb 2007)

> I don't think the twist is that bad, and shouldn't take too long to rectify it


I though that until I had a go at doing one of them, quite a lot of force is required to twist that bar round past the point where it will bend and then spring back to what would be a reasonable line. Then to try and bend the bow out of it (as I have said hard to photo)bearing in mind the whole point of these clamps is to resist bowing in the first place. I think if you had a go and then had another 7 lined up you may consider like I did it was quicker to stick them back in the box ring axmister and order some more. I'd be surprised if many people have a vice on a bench that would cope with the amount of force required.

Alan


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## Mdotflorida (16 Feb 2007)

I can't believe anyones advocating "tuning" them or just using them as is and accepting them as ok because they were cheap

What happened to quality control and getting what you paid for. How do you send a message back to these companies that they are producing sub standard goods !!!

Where do you draw the line about what's acceptable and what isn't

Send them right back.

Jeff


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## Jake (16 Feb 2007)

I would reject that, even it had cost a fiver.


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## Colin C (16 Feb 2007)

Jake":23bbp6p2 said:


> I would reject that, even it had cost a fiver.



Now seeing how bad they are I would do the same and would not try to straighten them.

I will have to think now as I was thinking of trying some of them :roll:


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## ByronBlack (16 Feb 2007)

Woody - in all fairness, I didn't realise you had 7 of them and they were all the same, and of course, not trying to rectify them myself, I don't know how difficult they are, so in your case your right to send them back.

However, I need to defend my comment about tuning cheap tools. There is a saying that is true to almost all fields of purchasing "You get what you pay for"

For example. I bought a festool TS55 - it's amazing, its great quality and I love it. I also bought a Ferm Pillar Drill which was absolutely shocking (it was sent back, but I could have 'tuned' it myself).

SO, buying cheap means your almost always going to make a sacrifice in the build quality somewhere along the line, i'm not saying this is preciseily the case in Woody's situation as i've explained in my first paragraph.

The best way to show these companies that you won't tolerate cheap badly made tools is to not buy them in the first place, why should we keep going through the cycle of buying cheap stuff, sending it back, hoping for a better one or a refund and finally buying the decent quality tool afterall.

The reason why we all buy cheaper tools, is because most of us can't afford to always have top of the range goods, therefore we should buy these cheap tools with the knowledge that we may have to tweak them or tune them to our satisfaction, afterall it's the consumers ever growing need and want for cheap tools that has seen most of the tool manufacturers setup far eastern factories where they tools themselves are banged out as quick and as cheap as possible..


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## Anonymous (16 Feb 2007)

Alan

With the twist you show in the photo, I'd send them back. That is intolerable


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## engineer one (16 Feb 2007)

no one can seriously expect to be able to straighten such a thing, and it should not have escaped the factory, let alone been sent by axminster.

however as i have said before, ikea no longer seem to inspect anything, all they do is throw the returns away since there is no money in rectification. :roll: 

steel or ally when bent to this extent will never be strong enough when fettled, and may well fail more quickly than is acceptable because of the 
fettling.  

maybe another way to go is buy a few expensive clamps for the basic set up work, and then use some cheapos for holding it afterwards, when you know it can't move.

after seeing so many tips about jigs to hold your sash or other clamps flat and square to the workbench in magazines, i found that the real advantage to the bessey is its ability to stand and clamp upright on the work surface without jigs to hold it in place. in addition, i find them easy to use one handed even at 1500 long.
\/ 
paul :wink:


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## engineer one (16 Feb 2007)

quick other thought, i have some of the lidl f clamps longest is about 300,
but they are strong and cheap.

i find that although lidl stuff is cheap, they seem to have some quality and quality control.

paul :wink:


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## Colin C (16 Feb 2007)

On engineer one's point

I have also got the packet that Aldi have done before and they hace not let me down plus I think it was about £6 for five.


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## engineer one (16 Feb 2007)

gee colin such extravagance 6 quid. 

hope that is reflected in your prices :lol: :twisted: :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Colin C (16 Feb 2007)

engineer one":2jtg8034 said:


> gee colin such extravagance 6 quid.
> 
> hope that is reflected in your prices :lol: :twisted: :roll:
> 
> paul :wink:



[-( [-X :roll:


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## engineer one (16 Feb 2007)

well you can't blame me for trying

paul :wink:


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## Corset (16 Feb 2007)

Just received axminster green clamp today. Mine too is bent exactly the same as the photo. Makes you wonder why the axminster come in a white box and the besseys in clear plastic. Back to axminster ho hum.
Owen


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## ivan (17 Feb 2007)

I have had 4 of the Axminster 600 mm jobs for some months, these are OK, and appear pretty identical to the Bessey. I'd definitely send the bent ones back, it will be at their expense, too.

OK they are a little less than the Bessey, but not what I'd call _cheap_ clamps.


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## Woody Alan (19 Feb 2007)

Hi all

Update on the cramps/clamps:- I returned the axminster ones, had to say they were faulty or they wanted to charge £10 for return postage, tried saying that I thought they weren't good enough quality but apparently that didn't matter, so it seems they aren't interested in them being poor quality.
Anyway at the time of organising the return I placed another order for the besseys 4x600 & 4x1000 and they were delivered at the same time as the others collected this morning. They are in a different league, each of them is straight and true in all planes the bar is a stronger different piece of stock, so my feedback would be if you only want very short parallel clamps then you might want to risk the axminsters but for the price difference go for the besseys. I intend these to be my primary use cramps but will probably supplement with the sets of cramps heads I already have and if required one or two of the sash type that Tony picked out from Machinemart, unless I have a lottery win  

Alan


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## engineer one (19 Feb 2007)

alan,
send them back freight forward, or use their return address.

if the goods are not fit for the purpose, then they have to pay the returns.

paul :wink:


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## Woody Alan (19 Feb 2007)

Paul

Sorry I didn't make that very clear did I? They did pay for the return it's just according to the girl on the phone it would seem the correct code words are neccessary e.g. "these are not satisfactory quality" didn't cut any ice. She encouraged me to say they were faulty which I don't think they were, I think they were made to a shoddy standard in the first place. It's all a moot point I guess, who cares as long as they paid.

As a bonus my missus is going around smugly saying I should have bought the Besseys in the first place, and being ever so humble I have to agree and promise that I have learned my lesson and only buyy the best from now on. Now, I know there's going to be a catch at some point, and being a mere male I haven't spotted it yet, but I like to think for however short a time, I have somehow gained the edge here, feeling all warm and cosy. 

Alan


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## engineer one (19 Feb 2007)

you are right, but the actual wording should be "not fit for purpose"

paul :wink: 

and beware the warm feeling it will bite you in the bum :roll:


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## Shadowfax (20 Feb 2007)

Just arranged for Axminster to pick up a couple of 600mm clamps I bought in their Sittingbourne shop in January. I only used one of them once and it would not pull a joint square. When I looked at the bar it was not quite straight. The other one was much the same. I have others of this type and they are fine.
I rang Axminster who were fine about it. They suspect a bad batch. Going by the other ones I have I suspect they might be right but it does not say too much for the QC, does it?
By the way, I replaced these two with proper K Bodies. I'm not taking any chances!
Cheers.

SF


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## Nick W (20 Feb 2007)

Have any of you guys considered that the unfit-for-purpose ones are just a lure to get you to part with your money in two stages, so it doesn't hurt quite so much? :wink:


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## Shadowfax (20 Feb 2007)

Nick
Yes, I thought just that. But then I reckoned "sod it" and went ahead. 
As I already have Besseys and know they have always been perfect, and I have the Axminster ones and have found, this time, that they have a problem I reckoned it would be safer to stick with what I know best. 
The K Bodies are on offer at the moment so the difference in price didn't really hurt too much and the others are paid for already.
Two stage payments might catch on - you never know! What a waste of time and effort, though.
If the quality control was good this sort of thing would not happen. I guess that is why there is such a price difference.
I still like the short Axminster parallel jaw clamps, though. Less chance for them to bend!

Cheers.

SF


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## PlaneMike (27 Jul 2007)

Hi All, First post ever - wish it was a bit more positive but ...... I bought a couple of the axminster green-handled (Bessey lookalikes) last week and, since they looked pretty good, I bought another pair this week.

Unfortunately, while clamping up a project this afternoon, the head casting snapped ! Only light pressure and I know my Bessey's would easily have coped. 

'Fraid they're just not fit for purpose and I've lost some confidence. I think I'll return all four and pay the difference for Bessey's.


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## PlaneMike (8 Aug 2007)

Just an update to my previous post - swapped all four for Bessey K-Bodies. 
Axminster were very helpful arranging a pick up and replacements delivery at the same time. As usual the Bessey's work great, which for me means they don't get a second thought and I can concentrate on the glue-up.


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## Philly (9 Aug 2007)

Good result, Mike. Sometimes you gotta spend the money...... :roll: 
Cheers
Philly


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## Joints (26 Apr 2015)

Woody Alan":1o7yvtbh said:


> Paul
> 
> Sorry I didn't make that very clear did I? They did pay for the return it's just according to the girl on the phone it would seem the correct code words are neccessary e.g. "these are not satisfactory quality" didn't cut any ice. She encouraged me to say they were faulty which I don't think they were, I think they were made to a shoddy standard in the first place. It's all a moot point I guess, who cares as long as they paid.
> 
> ...



Get that in writing or audio recorded.

After reading through this and wondering if I should just take the plunge again with some more tried and tested Bessey kbodys or try some cheaper variety I know what my decision is cheers guys.


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Apr 2015)

"As a bonus my missus is going around smugly saying I should have bought the Besseys in the first place, and being ever so humble I have to agree and promise that I have learned my lesson and only buy the best from now on."

Jesus wept!!! :lol: :lol:


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## iNewbie (27 Apr 2015)

This thread is from 2007 - is this Bessey to the Future or summat?!


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## Argus (28 Apr 2015)

iNewbie":bwimc619 said:


> This thread is from 2007 - is this Bessey to the Future or summat?!



.......... it's even got Alf posting in it!


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## CStanford (30 Apr 2015)

Seems about every woodworking outlet, including those who profess to hate 'copyists,' have their own version of the Bessey K-Body clamp which, of course, Bessey is still very much in the business of making.

Maybe if Bessey's president decided to make them on a 'boutique basis' in a New England idyll, wear a cute, rakish vest, and read poetry to the crew at lunch-break everybody would give them a little more love.


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