# New Bench WIP - update 4 November - Finished



## Vinny (25 Sep 2010)

I’ve a project that has to be completed by Christmas for an extremely discerning customer……….my 15 year old daughter. I’ve got to “redo” her bedroom, which was given a generous coat of “ikea” when we bought the house a couple of years ago. The Swedish menace furniture is too large for her room, and if theres one thing a 15yr old needs it’s space. So a cabin style bed, with integrated drawers and a pull out desk, a double wardrobe and a dressing table all have to be done before the big man comes in December.

First sticking point – the workshop. Until a fortnight ago there was plenty of work surface and storage but it wasn’t practical. Major problem was lack of assembly space. So out with the screwdriver and away to the shed with about half the benchwork and cupboards, the shed is now tidy !

So first project is to build a more suitable work bench, available budget is pretty much big enough to buy a sheet of 18mm MDF with which to finish the top off with. 
I’ve some lengths of decking timber and some large “planks”, donated by a mate when he moved, for the frame work. Within the frame there will be power tool storage and an odds and sods cupboard. I would sketchup my idea but I fear the end result would be vastly different to the initial design. This is going to be a design in progress as well as a work in progress.


A selection of the materials:








A few hours on the TS and P/T and I’m left with this: I’ve over estimated what I need to cater for design changes.






I’m keen to try out some stuff I havn’t done before (something that doesn’t include pocket holes and biscuits) so the plan is to mortice and tenon all the frame joints. Hopefully the only screws on the whole build will be used to hold the mdf on top – we’ll see !
So on to the first tenons, fettled the cheap Axi SCMS so it was cutting straight and square then set the depth of cut, I’ll add here that I thought about cutting by hand, then didn’t think about it again.
Once the shoulders were cut I realised that there had been a fair bit of “flex” in the SCMS carriage, so although the shoulders were nice and square they were a tad deep, resulting in a skinny tenon. Not overly worried though as the frame will be well braced when complete so these first tenons won’t be overworked.
For the faces (is that the correct term ?)I put together a heath robinson jig and got the router out.






First “skinny” tenons:






Mortices were then marked out using a temperamental draper gauge (shiny marples one will arrive on Monday to replace it), drilled out on pedestal drill then finished with a chisel. I’m pretty chuffed with the result seeing as though it’s my first attempt. 

First mortice.






Snug fit:






Only a couple of dozen more to go. New bandsaw arriving from Yandles some time next week, so cutting the tenons should be quicker than it is faffing around with the SCMS.

Vinny


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## wobblycogs (26 Sep 2010)

Nice fit on the m&t shame the scms cut too deep. I've tried cutting tenons with the scms too and had the same problem. The depth control on most of them doesn't seem to be very good. The best tenons I make are done by hand, a suitably jigged router comes a close second though.


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## Vinny (2 Oct 2010)

Managed a few more hours in the workshop and got all the M + T's done for one side, dry fit seemed OK. I'm going to have to do some "practice" assembly in preperation for the glue up.







Ratchet straps for the dry fit - lots of clamps planned for the glue up.






Vinny


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## OPJ (3 Oct 2010)

Looking good, Vinny. Even though, those tenons are _very_ skinny! :shock:

What is the depth stop like on your SCMS? If it's a bolt or length of threaded rod, you could try putting a couple of nuts on there to lock it off securely. Only problem then is that it makes fine adjustment more awkward.

You said you were buying a new bandsaw... _Where are the photos???_


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## Vinny (3 Oct 2010)

Olly

The SCMS has an allen bolt that does have a locking nut which serves as the depth stop. The problem with it is that there is a degree of "flex" in the carriage which results in a bit more downward motion when the depth stop is reached. The saw is a cheapish axi one that I got a couple of years ago for cutting 3 x 2 studwork on a utility room build in my house. It only has a single slide which I think is why it flexes. I see that Axminster don't do it any more - maybe thats why. My only option really is to get a Kapex ........Dear Santa, I've been a very good boy................ :roll: :wink: 

Bandsaw arrived on Tuesday - BS350, (pic on the next update) like it a lot, it's my first BS so setting it up has been a bit trial and error - the manual is good, but not that good so I think Mr Maskery will be getting 50 of my hard earned sheckles in the very near future in order for me to literally get on the straight and narrow. It came with a 1/2 inch blade which I think is a bit skinny so am probably going to get a 3/4 inch one, but thats only after looking at Steves DVD's. Main problem I'm having is deciding whether I've tensioned the balde enough but I think thats for another time and perhaps another thread.

Vinny


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## Blister (3 Oct 2010)

I am NO expert at this but have to agree the tenons are VERY thin :shock: 

I always thought you did 50/50 , 50% mortise hole .50% tenon 

I am probably wrong :?


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## Vinny (3 Oct 2010)

Blister

totally agree, but as I said before, the scms depth stop isn't the most accurate and the shoulders were all cut too deep. I didn't have enough spare stock to start again and I couldn't afford to lose the length if I cut the skinny ones off and started again. I don't forsee any problems at all with strength though as the frame is braced with other members (lots of them)

cheers for looking

vinny


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## woodbloke (3 Oct 2010)

Vinny":21we65ag said:


> Blister
> 
> totally agree, but as I said before, the scms depth stop isn't the most accurate and the shoulders were all cut too deep. I didn't have enough spare stock to start again and I couldn't afford to lose the length if I cut the skinny ones off and started again. I don't forsee any problems at all with strength though as the frame is braced with other members (lots of them)
> 
> ...



Vinny, the other thing you could do is to reinforce each 90deg internal corner with some chunkable corner blocks, glued and screwed (same sort of thing as you see on the underside of dining chairs) - Rob


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## xy mosian (3 Oct 2010)

If the 'skinny' tenons worry you. Could you use a big loose tenon, in a style familiar to domino users?

xy


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## Vinny (3 Oct 2010)

The bench will have multiple "other" braces along it s length and across its width. theres also a single piece mid shelf which will be 12mm ply and the top which will be 2 sheets of 18mm mdf. I'm also going to dowel the "skinny" tenons. So with all that, the fact that they are 2-3mm on the slim side will not be a problem.

Vinny


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## xy mosian (3 Oct 2010)

Sounds as if you have it well sorted Vinny, I'm sure it's going to be just great.

xy


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## DeanN (3 Oct 2010)

Blister":1pr202oz said:


> I am NO expert at this but have to agree the tenons are VERY thin :shock:
> 
> I always thought you did 50/50 , 50% mortise hole .50% tenon
> 
> I am probably wrong :?



I was always taught 1/3 of the timber on either side of the mortice/tenon, making the mortice/tenon a 1/3 of the available width.

With the extra bracing mentioned though, it shouldn't be an issue.

Can't wait to see some more pics though....


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## barkwindjammer (3 Oct 2010)

If I was you Vinny I'd stop right there before any glue-up, those 'skinny' tenons are going to fail, its a pain in the seating area, butt, you might think about cutting the 'skinny' tenons flush, then cutting wider mortices into your rails and posts and using a loose tenon-this I think will save you the heartache later :wink:


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## Vinny (15 Oct 2010)

More time in the workshop and 52 handcut M and T's later (the new bandsaw desperately needs some "adjustment) and we're at dry fit stage. Just got to rout some recesses in the central rails for a shelf then its titebond time.






Have got a plan for the glue up, going to do it in stages but still going to have a couple of practice runs.
i'm going to use titebond 3, i'm sure I read somewhere that it has an open time of 20 mins, can anyone confirm this.

Cheers

Vinny


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## woodbloke (15 Oct 2010)

Vinny":b6rkwlf7 said:


> I'm going to use titebond 3, i'm sure I read somewhere that it has an open time of 20 mins, can anyone confirm this.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Vinny


V, that would be a max time I reckon...I'd work on around 10 minutes, but in this cooler weather, you ought to be OK. Just don't leave it significantly longer than 10 :wink: - Rob


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## AndyT (15 Oct 2010)

Nice use of recycled wood! 

Just one suggestion - it might be worth including some extra feet below your intermediate uprights, so the wood goes all the way down to the floor. That way, you get two extra-firm spots within the length of the bench, where you can happily bash away at the next lot of hand-cut mortices.


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## wobblycogs (15 Oct 2010)

If you are worried about how long it will take you to get everything together consider using slow setting epoxy. You can easily have an open time to an hour. The other benefit is that if some of your joints are a little lose the epoxy is much more forgiving about filling the gap.


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## Noel (15 Oct 2010)

Vinny, looking good _but_ before the glue gets squeezed I'd personally sacrifice the length of the anorexic tenons and redo them. Got to make sense in the long term.


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## Einari Rystykaemmen (18 Oct 2010)

wobblycogs":2qvhwtvx said:


> If you are worried about how long it will take you to get everything together consider using slow setting epoxy. You can easily have an open time to an hour. The other benefit is that if some of your joints are a little lose the epoxy is much more forgiving about filling the gap.



I agree. Because you have so many joints, there is no way to get all together with appropriate clamping within 10-20 mins open time...

Cheers!

ER


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## Lardman (18 Oct 2010)

Noel":30as1s82 said:


> Vinny, looking good _but_ before the glue gets squeezed I'd personally sacrifice the length of the anorexic tenons and redo them. Got to make sense in the long term.



I was wondering if there would be any benefit in reinforcing them with hardwood or even metal dowels ? Saving the need to drop a few inches.

I assume the concern is about lateral force rather than vertical snapping the tenon ?


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## Vinny (18 Oct 2010)

After several stages the glue up is complete. I think it was 6 in all. First time using titebond III and am very impressed, I managed to get each set of glue ups completed in under 8 minutes (thanks for the advice Rob)so can't really comment on the max open time, but even at 8 mins it was starting to go slightly tacky.

The all important final fit went well with all the tenons lining up exactly as well as the shelf sliding nicely into the rebate.







Under the shelf there will be 3 large drawers to put power tools in so next job was to start on the drawers fronts. I have some boards that were the base of our old bed and thought they were pine but now not so sure.






They finished very nicely in the P/T and smelt vanilla (ish) when sawn. 






Its also very pliable.






So is anyone able to offer an opinion as to what it may be or is it indeed pine.

Don't know if I've used enough clamps for the drawer front glue up.






Cheers

Vinny


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## TrimTheKing (18 Oct 2010)

Looking good Vinny

I need to build some similar kind of stuff when I have finished my recent projects so watching this with interest.

Cheers
Mark


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## Vinny (22 Oct 2010)

There is light at the end of the tunnel.......

Bench top now complete -2 layers of 18mm construction ply topped off with 9mm mdf, vise installed (what a pita that was) wrapped the whole lot with some of the mystery 'bed board'. Installed a 'bumper' strip at the back and routed some holes and slots for pencils and a couple of rulers.

Have given the surface a liberal dose of Liberon neutral liquid wax, will repeat tomorrow and then that should be that job jobbed.

All that remains is the drawers, plan to make a start on the carcasses tomorrow and put the bread board ends on the drawer fronts before theyre cut to size, then its Sunday...........................:

Korean Grand Prix
Unwilling drag round Sainsburys
Unwilling drag round Chippenham
Unwilling visit to people I know (friends would be taking it a bit too far)
Willing 4 pack of Ruddles County
Long snore
Argument
Silent tea
More snores
etc etc

Then its Monday and 4 days in t'shop - gotta love this shift work mullarkey :wink: 







Vinny


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## Vinny (23 Oct 2010)

First drawer front glued and ready for the next stage - making it look better than this (this is another front but the original was in similar shape):







It's too wide for the P/T so I was forced to try something that I've been putting off for a while - flattening by hand :shock: 

Initially I knocked of the glue residue with the belt sander, then it was out with the BU smoother, 5 mins on the scary sharp and I was ready, oh joy of joys, it actually worked, nice whispy shavings all over the shop, all over the dog, ergo all over the house - oops.

Then disaster - rip out !!! quite deep as well so reversed the panel and attacked from the other direction, this worked to a fashion but theres still some evidence of it, should I keep going until its all gone or is there something else I should do (sand paper, filler, cabinet scrapers ?).



Next step (I think) will be on to cabinet scrapers, but before that I've got to watch Matthews video on how to use the carbide burnishing thingamy.

This is where we are at present:






Cheers

Vinny


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## Vinny (4 Nov 2010)

Tis done.

Drawer fronts given a wipe over with danish oil, power tools in drawers. I've had a bounce on the top and there no creaks or groans so looks like the tenons are OK. Will probably fit intermediate legs front and back as was suggested earlier in the thread but we'll see how it goes.






Cheers

vinny


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## AndyT (4 Nov 2010)

Looks very nice!

Have you decided what to do about clamping end to end on the surface?

I expect you know the Veritas bench dogs/pups - and will have seen Roger Chapman's mdf-topped bench with suitable holes. It's been in many similar threads - eg this one:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/lighter-wight-worktop-only-help-t24379.html

Btw, I think your bed slats might be spruce. I have some matching ones, and although they are not 'joinery grade' they have been very useful.


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## Vinny (4 Nov 2010)

Andy

Dogs are on the agenda - soon.

To save some pennies I plan to make them myself. The initial design was to partly sheath some 15mm hard wood dowel with blue mains water pipe (something I have a pretty good supply of - old fella is a retired plumber with a yard full of the stuff). The wall of the pipe is about 3mm which would have made a nice "step" to contact with the bench top, however...... I can't find a 15mm drill bit (flat) in my drill drawer nor can i find one in any of the sheds, the sizes go 12,13,14, 16,17 etc. i do have a 15mm forstner bit but am quite aware of the fact that under the top sheet of mdf to lies 2 sheets of construction ply which were randomly screwed and glued together - I did mean to remove the screws after the glue had dried....but didn't. i don't really fancy wrecking an expensive forstner bit so its back to the drawing board.

Vinny


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## xy mosian (4 Nov 2010)

Nice bench. If all else fails grind equal amounts from each side of a 16m flat bit to make the required 15mm. Paint it RED so that you know it is not the stated size. Or use it and chuck it, wish I had done!  
xy


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## Hudson Carpentry (4 Nov 2010)

If you don't fancy grinding down a flat bit, which is a good idea, how about using a pipe detector, the kind you use on walls to find pipes and wires. Make sure you have one that detects metal and not a magnetic field. This will tell you where the screws are!


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## Paul Chapman (4 Nov 2010)

I'd recommend flat bits for drilling dog holes - I used them in my MDF workbench and they drilled very clean holes. For best results use the drill in a drill press with the head swung round.

The best flat bits for getting clean holes have spurs ground on the edges like the one on the right in this picture






You will also find that many have threaded points. These are OK in a cordless drill which stops when you release the trigger but if you are using them in a mains-powered drill I'd recommend filing off the thread (I did this in the one on the right in the picture above). If you don't you'll find that the drill doesn't stop immediately the trigger is released and the bit carries on getting drawn into the wood until the drill stops - can be a bit lethal if you're not careful :shock: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## AndyT (4 Nov 2010)

Paul - sorry for calling you Roger!

I must take more cair!


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## Vinny (4 Nov 2010)

Paul

Do you know the manufacturer is of the flat bit with the spur ? I've had a quick flirt round the usual suspects but can't find anyone who makes them, or did you grind the spur yourself ?

Many thanks

Vinny


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## Paul Chapman (4 Nov 2010)

Vinny":3ml6fx37 said:


> Paul
> 
> Do you know the manufacturer is of the flat bit with the spur ?



Bosch make them and B&Q currently stock them. CK also do them and there are no doubt other makes as well. 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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