# veneering walnut sheets to birch ply... advice needed



## tobytools (20 Jan 2015)

evening gents.
i have some sheets of veneer im going to attach to some ply for a cabinet im making. 
ill be veneering both sides of the door panel, the back and front drawer.

i don't have a press/ vaccume.

this is how im going to do it, cut to ruff size leaving 5mm waste on all sides, glue using titebond 3 or something like that, place the veneered piece in-between two sheets of marine ply and chuck a load of brick on to for weight.... come back next day, remove bricks trim flush.. 

with the panel should i veneer the inside first saving the most viewed side till last.
what im interested to know is will my way work?

i only have enough veneer for this one attempt so, any tip or must that i should know about let me know thanks.

ill be doing it tomorrow afternoon after college.....

thanks
TT


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## rdesign (20 Jan 2015)

don't use to much glue as it will come through the veneer. just use a this rolled on layer.
yes it will work maybe dampen the ply first by wiping with a damp cloth, to give u a little bit extra open time on the titebond. 

regards richard


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## Mr T (21 Jan 2015)

Might be a bit late now but you will need a lot of bricks! If the panel is not too big I would use G or F clamps to apply the pressure. If the panel is larger I would use curved bearers and clamps. You need a few pound per square inch, I'm not sure you can get that with bricks.

Chris


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## tobytools (21 Jan 2015)

Thanks for the advice rdesign and mr T, 
The panel is small.
I have a few clamps. 
Will I need to squeeze the glue out before I clamp? And then I'd sandwich the veneer in play and clamp...

Over 100 views and only 2 comments.... If I would have asked about what rusty plane to buy I'd be swamped!

TT


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## AndyT (21 Jan 2015)

Toby, I think not many of us have experience of veneering. I don't, but if I was needing to do this, I'd be worried that it doesn't match either of the textbook ways of working. Those are either PVA used with a press or cauls and a lot of clamps, or hot glue used with local pressure.

I'd be wondering what I would do if I took my panels out from under the pile of bricks and found that there were bubbles in them where the pressure was insufficient and the veneer had not stuck down. How would I get a second chance?

Maybe it would be safer to use liquid hide glue. You would not need a double glue pot as it goes on cold, but if it did fail to stick, you could persuade it locally with a domestic iron.

Just thinking out loud here. I suspect the real answer is the proper established technique.


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## marcros (21 Jan 2015)

I have used both the pva and cauls, and liquid hide glue and cauls. I find that the latter is slightly easier because if you get a bit of glue where it shouldnt be, it doesnt cause issues.

Cauls are quick and easy to make from scrap, so no reason not to use them really.


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## Paul Chapman (21 Jan 2015)

In addition to the good advice above, I would suggest that you veneer both sides of the panel at the same time. Plywood depends for its stability on having an uneven number of plies. If you veneer one side of the panel and allow it to dry before veneering the other side, there is a good chance that you will destabilise the panel and cause it to warp. If you then veneer the other side, there is no guarantee that it will pull the panel back into shape.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Chrispy (21 Jan 2015)

Unless you have a fork lift truck I think by the time you have enough bricks in place the veneer will have sucked the water from the glue and expanded causing it to wrinkle once this happens you have lost the fight really. and yes you would have to do both sides at the same time so if one fails they both will! Hasn't the college got a press you can use?


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## Sheffield Tony (21 Jan 2015)

I once veneered a chessboard on the top of a coffee table with traditional hot hide glue. That was 30 years ago and I have not felt the urge to repeat it since. On hitting the warm, wet glue the veneer would immediately start trying to roll itself up into a scroll, and crack if flattened out. Sticking the bubbled bits back down with a hot iron proved a lot more difficult than it sounded, and I concluded that I was standing at the foot of a very steep learning curve which quite frankly I didn't have the energy to climb ! Respect to those who have mastered it.


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## Mr T (21 Jan 2015)

Hi 

You don't need to squeeze out the glue if you are using Titebond. Spread it with a roller, you need a coating like a very thick layer of emulsion paint. Veneer both side at the same time. You need to make sure any sqeeze through will not make the veneer stick to the cauls, Parcel tape on the cauls is good.

Leave it in the cauls about four hours. If you are using say 18mm mdf cauls you need a clamp every 250-300mm. If, when it comes out of the cauls, there is the odd bubble (you can find these by tapping with a pencil, the bounce and sound is different) it can be gently ironed down if you do it within about 24 hours (longer with pva). 

This article gives a lot more detail http://www.christribefurniturecourses.com/index.php/veneering-basics/

I find modern glues a lot easier for veneering than animal glue.

Chris


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## MIGNAL (21 Jan 2015)

The 'trick' to hammer veneering with Hide glue is to make sure that the veneer is flexible _before_ applying the glue. A quick spritz with water on both sides and allow it to soak in.


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## Paul Chapman (21 Jan 2015)

Mr T":2zvpn5pd said:


> This article gives a lot more detail http://www.christribefurniturecourses.com/index.php/veneering-basics/



Excellent article, Chris.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## marcros (21 Jan 2015)

Sheffield Tony":j406iu0n said:


> I once veneered a chessboard on the top of a coffee table with traditional hot hide glue. That was 30 years ago and I have not felt the urge to repeat it since. On hitting the warm, wet glue the veneer would immediately start trying to roll itself up into a scroll, and crack if flattened out. Sticking the bubbled bits back down with a hot iron proved a lot more difficult than it sounded, and I concluded that I was standing at the foot of a very steep learning curve which quite frankly I didn't have the energy to climb ! Respect to those who have mastered it.



My experience with hammer veneering were more positive. Plenty of glue everywhere, and it seemed to work well, although the hot iron and a spritz of water was needed though.


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## Mr T (21 Jan 2015)

Not sure anyone has mentioned that if you are using a birch ply substrate the grain on the veneer should be a right angle to that on the ply.

Chris


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## bugbear (22 Jan 2015)

The standard text on veneering is W A Lincoln's "Complete Manual of Wood Veneering". Covers everything
you need to know, and probably more besides.

It's readily available, but your college ought to have a copy.

BugBear


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## Mr T (22 Jan 2015)

I find Lincoln is a bit outdated it could do with a revised edition.

Chris


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## bugbear (22 Jan 2015)

Mr T":2qvgo0wb said:


> I find Lincoln is a bit outdated it could do with a revised edition.
> 
> Chris



Any recommendation for a more up to date book?

BugBear


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## Mr T (22 Jan 2015)

> Mr T wrote:
> 
> I find Lincoln is a bit outdated it could do with a revised edition.
> 
> ...



Not really, I don't know of any. Most of my learning has been from my mistakes!

Chris


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## tobytools (23 Jan 2015)

thanks for all you advice. i tested out my means to veneers first on a scrap piece... it worked, i used about 14 G clamps to clamp the two ply boards together, 

i have a lot to learn when it come to veneering thats for sure but i have to crawl before i walk.. 
I've now glued and clamped up the real deal so to speak..... fingers crossed.
im away this weekend so ill check when im back sunday evening. i ill post the odd pic of my attempts too.

something i didn't take into account was the added thickness of the two veneers to the 1/4" ply.... i have a feeling its going to either be a very very tight fit or not fit at all... 
i may have to chamfer the edges to fit. we shall see.

i appreciate the help and opinions.

TT


after some talks and analysing, I've come to this conclusion....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesthetic_learning

this is the type of learner i am, tho i do gain from book and YT


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