# kitchen lights and extraction



## roman (21 Apr 2010)

While not exactly woodwork I wonder whether anyone can recommend extraction and downlights for a kitchen? 

My research so far has turned up megaman 11 watt lights in fire rated holders. However some suggest they are under-powered whereas the 14 watt versions are not dimmable.

The criteria are: reliable bulbs/holders, fire rated, dimmable, bright

Secondly I need to source extraction. Something along the lines of an elica pro anglo: (sorry, can't seem to make link) but without the high price. The idea is powerful extraction with an externally mounted motor for efficiency and quiet running. If this all proves to be out of reach, then a recommendation for a good quality cooker hood with built in motor would be useful. Most seem to be weedy and noisy and its quite hard to discover whether what is inside is quality or not. 

Many thanks

roman


----------



## cambournepete (22 Apr 2010)

Lights:
I'd seriously look at LED lights rather than compact fluorescent - they're very expensive to buy but should last longer and have better colour.

Hood:
Have a look at fornair or falcon to name but 2.
Rather cheaper then the Elica if not quite so nicely styled.
We had a Britannia, but it died too quickly.
I also like the idea of an external motor, but that route ain't cheap.
Obviously look for big extraction numbers and large diameter pipe requirements - 5" minimum, 6" preferably...
Probably worth asking at local kitchen specialists, if only to get some more ideas.


----------



## stoatyboy (22 Apr 2010)

I had the megaman 11 watters put all over my place when an extension got done and I regret it every day - they last for no time at all and are unfeasibly expensive to replace bulbs - especially at the rate they die

My house is getting darker and darker as they are all going and i'm too tight to replace them - I'm looking at about 80 quids worth - I resent paying for rubbish - especially to replace it with more rubbish

I keep looking for a different bulb to put in instead but due to the fire thingy holders only the megaman bulbs seem to fit there's some flange thing that stops other makes going in - I'm actually considering buying a dremmel to grind out the flange so I can fit other bulbs - but then they won't be fire safe I assume

I'm not a fan! (of course I could have just got a bad batch)


----------



## jeffinfrance (22 Apr 2010)

another vote here for led. not as bright as halogen yet, but this can be overcome with more of them. also dimmable 

best thing.....zero fire risk....no heat at all and lamps last forever (almost)

re extarctor, two things to consider:

air volume extraction.......as much as you can afford
decibel level........as low as you can afford

jeff


----------



## Jake (22 Apr 2010)

cambournepete":3sxukosd said:


> Lights:
> I'd seriously look at LED lights rather than compact fluorescent - they're very expensive to buy but should last longer and have better colour.



Agree about longevity (and great efficiency), but colour? LEDs are either a nasty harsh bluish light or a really foul glutinous yellow IME.


----------



## matt (22 Apr 2010)

Jake":21zcxg0d said:


> cambournepete":21zcxg0d said:
> 
> 
> > Lights:
> ...



I agree. I've yet to find LED lights with good colour and also I seem to recall some debate about the focus of the light - as in the brightness is a very narrow cone shape meaning not much spread, even over relatively short distances. I'm considering the options for under cabinet lighting too, having got cheesed off with the halogen ones I have now which keep blowing and run so hot they destroy the fitting too. I'm almost settled on flourescent.


----------



## jeffinfrance (22 Apr 2010)

led's have come along way in a few years.

started with 17 diodes per lamp, up to 100 now set on a convex for better spread too.

check out an architectural lighting specialist.


----------



## Jake (22 Apr 2010)

The colour is still the same (save for the introduction of the gloopy yellow ones to try and get around the blue issue).

Great for accent lighting, horrible as a main light source.


----------



## roman (22 Apr 2010)

I've yet to hear a successful tale of down lights. I've looked into it a little bit and so far have heard that 240v halogen should be avoided as they blow more easily (thinner filaments), 12 v better (thicker filaments), but then looking at places I've worked as well as friends houses, the experience is always one of all but one or two bulbs burned out. 

Some suggest its to do with poor quality fittings that distort/oxidise with use. It seems the more I look the less I know! (I have found info that contradicts the above)

I can see that LED is almost certainly the way forward, but from what I have seen I don't think its right yet (colour/appearance)

as for extraction can you suggest a minimum extraction rate that would be considered serious? Will look into falcon. had been considering brittannia for range cooker (quite expensive tho) so its interesting to hear their cooker hood not being up to much.

thanks for suggestions so far, any other thoughts welcome, including if I may add a further request, for dual fuel range cookers.

cheers

roman


----------



## petermillard (22 Apr 2010)

Will you be using downlights as your main source of light in the room? They can be quite a harsh light - bright, but perhaps a little 'wearing' after a while?

I have 12v Halogen downlighters throughout my house; they're only really used in rooms when we _really_ need a bright light - most of the time the rooms are lit with lamps and uplighters, and only in bathrooms, halls and landings are downlights the only light source.

The quality of the bulbs and transformers make a big difference to how well they last - when we first had out loft conversion done, I was changing bulbs every couple of months; now they've all been replaced with decent brand-name bulbs, it's very rare for one to blow - even in heavily-used areas like bathrooms.

Like others in this thread, I had a look at LEDs and didn't like the quality of light they gave - though without doubt they are the way forward for when the day comes that 12v Halogens are outlawed for crimes against the environment 

Cheers, Pete.


----------



## matt (22 Apr 2010)

Apparently 12v halogens give a more white light than their 240v equivalents. I've used 240v halogens in a few rooms around the house and like the warmth (and absence of transformers).


----------



## roman (22 Apr 2010)

At present there are two pendant lights which are slightly gloomy. Dimmable downlights added to these would cover all bases. When you mention high quality bulbs what brands do you have in mind? I know osram and philips are supposed to be ok. 

What about the bulb holder? I've read somewhere that the best ones have porcelain instead of plastic inside and to avoid pressed steel. Makes sense I guess.

I think 12 v use a little bit less energy than 240v, even though some is wasted by the transformer.


----------



## RogerM (23 Apr 2010)

jeffinfrance":1e64vb5c said:


> led's have come along way in a few years.
> 
> started with 17 diodes per lamp, up to 100 now set on a convex for better spread too.
> 
> check out an architectural lighting specialist.



Our kitchen is quite dark and uses 8 x 50w halogen spots, a 100w down light over the breakfast bar plus 3 x under unit fluorescent tubes. Trouble is that this burns 545 watts at a cost of over £250 per year.

So replaced with these LEDs. They burn 4.5w each and although a bit pricey, they will pay for themselves in about 18 months. Light is nearer intensity of 35 watt halogens than the 50 watt halogens they replace, but light quality not at all bad. We tend to use the under unit fluorescents a bit more now and are very happy with the result. Overall power consumption now just 85 watts.


----------



## MickCheese (26 Apr 2010)

I find the under unit tubes heat up the cupboard contents.

Mick


----------



## petermillard (26 Apr 2010)

roman":2cfk8g0n said:


> When you mention high quality bulbs what brands do you have in mind? I know osram and philips are supposed to be ok.



If you stick to brand-name lamps you should be OK - add Sylvania to your list as well - just avoid the real cheapo own-brand lamps from B&Q or Homebase.

Haven't found the lampholders to make any real difference personally, but the more expensive light fittings always seem to have porcelain lampholders, so maybe there's something in it <shrug>

Cheers, Pete


----------



## roman (26 Apr 2010)

many thanks,

The cost of running the halogen lights is a bit of an eye opener!

Will have to think how to proceed. Whatever happens I will buy quality porcelain holders.

roman


----------

