# New workshop authorised by Mrs H - help with costings.



## Rob_H (27 Dec 2006)

Mrs H has finally agreed that the double garage I am using can be decommissioned and I can have a new workshop since I have started producing useful things like oak furniture. I am looking at a structure about 25ft long and 15ft wide (flexible as there is space). I am trying to decide whether a brick/block structure or a solid timber workshop would be better. Any idea of costings (very roughly) for a project like that. Any recommendations for GOOD timber workshop companies if I go down that route. I had a wooden one at my last cottage but it wasn't very solid and I want something that will solid, well built and well insulated and built to last.


----------



## houtslager (27 Dec 2006)

try a Straw bale construction - much cheaper and a double benefit
heat insulated AND SOUND.


----------



## Rob_H (27 Dec 2006)

Hmm, even more of a fire hazard than wood I would have thought..... luckily we have no neighbours so sound is not an issue.


----------



## PowerTool (27 Dec 2006)

I went for brick construction - primarily to match the existing shed that I extended.Concrete base,single-skin brickwork (same as existing) but ply/felt roof,rather than copying the existing 6" thick concrete..
It was two years ago,and cost about £160/m2 for all materials (including electrics) - did it all myself,so no labour costs.
If I was doing one from scratch,I would go for timber studwork construction - easy to insulate,easy to hide the wiring,and sheet material inside makes it easy to fasten anything to the walls.

Do yuo have any planning restrictions to contend with ?

Andrew


----------



## Rob_H (27 Dec 2006)

Not sure about planning at the moment. I need to research that. I hope I don't need it but I need to read the regs.


----------



## PowerTool (27 Dec 2006)

Here's a useful link I found when doing some research for my build - gives some useful general info.
Check with your own BCO (Building Control Officer) at your local council to be sure,though - they are actually generally helpful and friendly people.

Andrew


----------



## Rob_H (27 Dec 2006)

Thanks. Doesn't look as though I would require it for a wooden structure - brick built might be different so i'll give them a call. I've been looking at the WIP photos for workshop projects and I'm very jealous - I wish it was done and built and I could get on using it rather than still being in the planning stage.


----------



## houtslager (28 Dec 2006)

> Hmm, even more of a fire hazard than wood I would have thought.....



nah - coat of lime plaster or clay and you even beat Commercial fire regs


----------



## Inspector (28 Dec 2006)

houtslager 

While I agree with your comments about the pluses of straw bale construction (they are warm, quiet, comfortable, and very fire resistant), it should be noted that there are a few minuses to go with them too. 

They are more labour intensive than a wood framed structure and they don't lend themselves to protracted construction especially in wet climates. Most people are not familiar with the construction and unless someone is keen on doing a lot of research, planning, and has the room to store the materials before and during construction, their dream shop may become a frustration. 

The biggest downfall, especially for a small building like the one Rob_H wants is the loss of usable floor area lost due to the thickness of the walls. With a building of 25ft x 15ft the footprint is 375 sq ft. Walls of 2x4 and sheet goods will use about 36 sq ft of that area resulting in about 339 sq ft of usable inside space. With the walls of straw having a finished thickness of about 18 inches each, the loss is 111 sq ft leaving 264 sq ft of usable floor space. That isn't acceptable to most. 

I think Straw Bale is a great way to build but I don't think it is for someone that has never done any building before in spite of what many authors and enthusiasts believe. I have been involved in building a small (28 ft x 28ft) straw bale house and as a framing helper (1st job out of high school) about 6 or 8 houses. With a buddy to help I could put up a 2x4 walled workshop like Rob_H wants in two weeks from forming the foundation to locking the doors. Might even have the siding finished too. I'm not sure I could accomplish as much if I were to attempt the same with straw bales. 

Rob_H 

If you can afford to and have the space, I think you should make your shop larger. If you can't now, at least lay it out to easily add to in the future. 

Best of luck.


----------



## houtslager (28 Dec 2006)

> They are more labour intensive than a wood framed structure and they don't lend themselves to protracted construction especially in wet climates. Most people are not familiar with the construction and unless someone is keen on doing a lot of research, planning, and has the room to store the materials before and during construction, their dream shop may become a frustration.



hmm ok lets look at this
More LI then timber - nah imho less but it takes a little bit of lateral thinking, as my folks say in Eiré "dese feet are for dancin' and dit is for tinkin' "  
amount of timber needed is less if one goes for Load bearing construction. and for the small size of building this is ideal way of building.

SB are faily light in fact lighter and easier to move then bloody great lengths of timbers.

I am building 2 SB buildings the first is 6 x 7m Externally = 4.9 x 6m internally, the 2nd will be 18m x 7m

The cost as a SB ( small one +/- 0.9 x.0.40 x 0.45m ) weigh in at 15Kg around 75pence each plus delivery. so M2 costing against either brick or timber frame + cladding is far far cheaper.

You order the bales a week ahead and a few LARGE tarpalins to cover for storage, then you should not have any insurmountable problems, the biggest problem is findingg people to do the LIME plastering or CLAY plastering.

Anyway I wish you all the best in your dream workshop, you'll get tons of advice and tips from everyonmne herer, BUT YOU have to decide.

HS


----------



## Rob_H (28 Dec 2006)

I've decided against straw but thanks for the advice anyway.


Inspector":2x1njnlm said:


> Rob_H
> 
> If you can afford to and have the space, I think you should make your shop larger. If you can't now, at least lay it out to easily add to in the future.
> 
> Best of luck.



Inspector, I'm going out this morning to measure up - I'm lucky in that I have the space to make it a lot bigger - it depends on Mrs H and how much she'll let me get away with.


----------



## Freetochat (28 Dec 2006)

No matter what you do, it will never be big enough. Well that is my experience. So go for the biggest workshop you can accomodate to ease the burden.


----------



## Rob_H (28 Dec 2006)

I've amended my plans - now going for 43 feet x 17 feet although I would like it wider if I can get away with it but I'm trying to keep it in line with an exisiting guest annexe in the garden. I'm thinking about a solid timber structure now, like a log cabin. Just researching websites now.


----------



## tiler99 (28 Dec 2006)

Sounds nice


----------



## Losos (28 Dec 2006)

Definately go for the largest you can, or (AS Inspector said) plan NOW for expansion. Whatever size you have now I guarantee you'll need more in a year or two so might as well plan for it now, even if SWMBO puts a ceiling on the budget today


----------



## carlsberg (28 Dec 2006)

HI,

Here is a link to a useful website in calculating the volume of a structure.

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/cm/images/1022691737741.swf

In my area, any temporary structure over 70 cubic metres requires planning permission.

Carlsberg


----------



## Rob_H (28 Dec 2006)

Thanks, carlsberg. I make mine just over 196 cubic metres so I think I'll be in the planning area if it's the same here.


----------



## MilkyBarKid (28 Dec 2006)

Hi Houtslager,
I'm thinking of building a straw bale building this summer. I'd be very interested to hear about your larger build - that's a similar size to the one I'm planning. Any idea of costs - any pictures would be very welcome.
MBK



houtslager":3gbzp72q said:


> > They are more labour intensive than a wood framed structure and they don't lend themselves to protracted construction especially in wet climates. Most people are not familiar with the construction and unless someone is keen on doing a lot of research, planning, and has the room to store the materials before and during construction, their dream shop may become a frustration.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Shultzy (29 Dec 2006)

I think you should take your time in planning. I've been planning mine for 9 months and going over the plans and jottings regularly bring up items like

1, how am I going to do that
2, can I do it on my own.
3, do I need any special tools / machinery to carry out this task
4, where am I going to store the materials.
5, what special materials do I need - dpc, dpm, vb, insulation, electrics etc.

Also, is it better to have one large workshop and partition it, or separate attached "sheds" for storing wood / dust collectors / compressor / spraying / finishing.


----------



## Rob_H (24 Sep 2007)

Slight delay in this thread - got blown off course for a while but the build is now back on. I have just had a letter back from Planning at Hunts Council saying I don't appear to require planning permission but may need Consent under Building Regulations. Can anyone explain the difference?


----------



## Shadowfax (24 Sep 2007)

Two entirely different pieces of legislation but, in a nutshell:
Planning permission concerns what is allowed under laws that deal with how a building will look (size, materials. colours, height etc).
Building Regulations cover how the structure is actually built; safety, sound insulation, thermal insulation, electrical installation (domestic) etc.
There is more but that should do for now.

Cheers.

SF


----------



## Rob_H (24 Sep 2007)

Thanks - anyone got any idea whether building regs consent/approval is normally needed for something like this - a domestic workshop?


----------



## davy_owen_88 (24 Sep 2007)

Simply put, everything should comply with the building regulations. Whether you need to pay their fees to have it inspected is another matter and I can't advise on most things.

The electrical side of things will definitely need building regs approval if you intend doing the work yourself though. If you will not be doing the electric side of things then you must get a suitably qualified electrician who is a member of a self-certification scheme in to do the work.


----------



## Rob_H (25 Sep 2007)

I have just spoken to Hunts District Coucil re building regs and I do have to apply for buildg regs consent. They want to know every detail of how it is going to be constructed and I have to pay £237 + vat just to apply. What a bargain.


----------



## Adam (25 Sep 2007)

Rob_H":6jo5oj88 said:


> I have just spoken to Hunts District Coucil re building regs and I do have to apply for buildg regs consent. They want to know every detail of how it is going to be constructed and I have to pay £237 + vat just to apply. What a bargain.



Hmm, sounds expensive. I paid less than that for some alterations (removing a wall) for my house. Are you sure they haven't determined a "value" for your building which seriously exceeds the actual cost and bumped the fee up as a result?

Adam


----------



## Adam (25 Sep 2007)

Rob_H":2qw5x7hw said:


> They want to know every detail of how it is going to be constructed



I vaguely remember that it becomes important to building control over a certain floor size due to factors such as if it snows, and has several feet on top of it, can the roof support it etc.

Adam


----------



## Rob_H (25 Sep 2007)

Yes, the load bearing element was one thing - the amount of snow the roof could hold etc. Trouble is they don't seem very good at telling you what would meet building regs. They want structural drawings, an examination of the concrete base before the concrete is poured etc. I want a decent concrete base but no one seems to know exactly what hardcore, thickness etc would meeting building regs. There seems no definititve answer but tehy will tell you when you are doing it wrong. The trouble is I need to know how to do it right first time so I can get accurate quotes. Sorry, I'm ranting now. It started off as such a simple project.


----------



## Adam (25 Sep 2007)

Rob_H":j6iykjbu said:


> Yes, the load bearing element was one thing - the amount of snow the roof could hold etc. Trouble is they don't seem very good at telling you what would meet building regs. They want structural drawings, an examination of the concrete base before the concrete is poured etc. I want a decent concrete base but no one seems to know exactly what hardcore, thickness etc would meeting building regs. There seems no definititve answer but tehy will tell you when you are doing it wrong. The trouble is I need to know how to do it right first time so I can get accurate quotes. Sorry, I'm ranting now. It started off as such a simple project.



Could you ask them at what size the threshold is that it becomes "under their juristiction?" The reason I ask is that you can see a variety of examples of workshops on here, and at the point you have to show a design that is really in depth, you'd be better off forming two workshops, with a corridor to join them, or indeed "join" them later if you know what I mean :wink: . Do they fully understand that this is a shed? Don't mention the word workshop - its a garden "shed". A non habitable, non commercial, temporary wooden structure. Also, there is are two ways to notify building control. If you submit plans, they will review them. Alternatively, you can just supply a building control notice. They cost about the same but one is a serious amount less work. If you split the sheds into two, to get the area "under" the size they bother about then you can do much easier back of the fag packet calculations e.g. 4 inch concrete etc. Its essential to get over its only a shed I think.

Adam


----------



## andys wood shed (25 Sep 2007)

Rob
I was in the same situation when I wanted to self build an extension on the house (size fell within the permitted development allowance)
However after paying the fee I requested a visit from the assigned inspector. When she arrived I explained I had very little knowledge (an O level in building construction) about the type of questions you are facing.
She explained that this was not a problem and enjoyed working with amateurs and would offer all the advice she could. She made regular visits and held my hand through out the project. There was a couple of thing I wanted to do but was told those would require calculations from a structural engineer but we found compromises that she was happy to pass. 
I found working with the building inspector extremely enjoyable.
My advice would be if you have to get building control, pay the fee request a kick off visit and ask your questions.
Also I found that the project goes much smoother if you work with the inspector and gain his/her trust :wink:

Andy


----------



## Rob_H (25 Sep 2007)

Have made the mistake of calling it a workshop already albeit I have explained it is a hobby one for domestic use only. I did consider the two buildings idea. Building regs have now said I can submit a BUILDING CONTROL NOTICE but that they will probably want to see ENGINEER'S plans of both the building and the base. This seems a little excessive as have just had a rough ballpark figure of £1,000 + VAT for this. This will kill off the project if this happens as it is started to get silly now.


----------



## mailee (25 Sep 2007)

Hi Rob, Mine is 24' x 13' and I built it myself in timber. (See my avatar) It looks the part and houses all of my equipment. It is insulated and has full electrics along with double glazing. Cost was around £2000 but may be a little more now of course as this was about a year ago. :wink:


----------



## motownmartin (25 Sep 2007)

mailee":k0ffai1k said:


> Hi Rob, Mine is 24' x 13' and I built it myself in timber. (See my avatar) It looks the part and houses all of my equipment. It is insulated and has full electrics along with double glazing. Cost was around £2000 but may be a little more now of course as this was about a year ago. :wink:


How on earth do you build something like this, I want to build one but don't have the know how or the confidence :? 
I even got hold of some plans but they were neither use nor ornament, I just don't have a clue


----------



## Adam (25 Sep 2007)

Rob_H":1aj1u5wc said:


> Have made the mistake of calling it a workshop already albeit I have explained it is a hobby one for domestic use only. I did consider the two buildings idea. Building regs have now said I can submit a BUILDING CONTROL NOTICE but that they will probably want to see ENGINEER'S plans of both the building and the base. This seems a little excessive as have just had a rough ballpark figure of £1,000 + VAT for this. This will kill off the project if this happens as it is started to get silly now.



You are going to have to get out of that. You need to make clear you want to know the maximum limits for a garden shed without it becoming subject to building control. There is absolutely now reason they should not provide you with a number. Its simply inconceivable that its that expensive. I paid only couple of hundred for a structural engineer to attend my property take all the measurements and make the load calculations for removing the wall.

Regardless, you need to restart the conversation. Tell them you want to know exactly the internal floor space beyond which if becomes subject to building control and as I said, its going to be a non commercial, not habitable shed. Go and talk to them again and see what they say!

Adam


----------



## Shultzy (25 Sep 2007)

motownmartin, look through the workshop threads and copy and paste the bits that you need to build your workshop to a file. Then read and re-read adding or taking away until you have all the items for the build. If you want any questions answered, post, and then add this to your workshop file. there's plenty of people here to help you.


----------



## motownmartin (25 Sep 2007)

Shultzy":azc6p1hw said:


> motownmartin, look through the workshop threads and copy and paste the bits that you need to build your workshop to a file. Then read and re-read adding or taking away until you have all the items for the build. If you want any questions answered, post, and then add this to your workshop file. there's plenty of people here to help you.



Yes, there are plenty of peeps to help and plenty of threads to follow, it's the know how that I don't have, are there any useful easy to follow books I can get :?: 

I'm still too scared to attempt it, I reckon that I would have the most wonkey worshop in Britain :lol:


----------



## Shultzy (25 Sep 2007)

motownmartin, you've just finished a very good looking router table, building your workshop will be a piece of cake in comparison.


----------



## motownmartin (25 Sep 2007)

Shultzy":1n88g8ib said:


> motownmartin, you've just finished a very good looking router table, building your workshop will be a piece of cake in comparison.



Thanks Shultzy, getting more confident


----------



## ByronBlack (25 Sep 2007)

motownmartin":kqq6yssw said:


> I'm still too scared to attempt it, I reckon that I would have the most wonkey worshop in Britain :lol:



You'll have to go some to compete with me on that front!!

At the end of the day, it really doesnt matter, as long as your roof is good and the thing is water tight you're onto a winner.

Just go for it. I had never as much as built an airfix model before doing my workshop, but plenty of questions asking and reading of past threads got me through, and of course a kind visit from Mel who helped a great deal with my roof problem.

Just think of it as a giant mechano project.


----------



## Rob_H (26 Sep 2007)

Adam":30u9mnoa said:


> You are going to have to get out of that. You need to make clear you want to know the maximum limits for a garden shed without it becoming subject to building control. There is absolutely now reason they should not provide you with a number. Its simply inconceivable that its that expensive. I paid only couple of hundred for a structural engineer to attend my property take all the measurements and make the load calculations for removing the wall.
> 
> Regardless, you need to restart the conversation. Tell them you want to know exactly the internal floor space beyond which if becomes subject to building control and as I said, its going to be a non commercial, not habitable shed. Go and talk to them again and see what they say!
> 
> Adam



I submitted building notice today referring to it everywhere as a large shed!!!


----------



## Shadowfax (27 Sep 2007)

Rob
It won't make any difference what you call it. If your building is substantially built of non combustible materials and it is not to be used for sleeping accommodation it will be exempt if it has a floor area of no more than 30 square metres. Any larger and it needs a Building Regulation application.
If you need it bigger than that you will have to go through the application procedure. If you reduce the size you will be constructing an exempt structure and you can withraw your application.
Hope that helps a bit.

SF


----------

