# Looking to buy a Metal Lathe



## SChop

Hi all looking to buy a metal lathe for making bike parts like grips, foot pegs spacers axles, threading etc 

I dont have any experience with Lathes and dont want to spend more that 150-200£ for the first one till i find out what i really need from it

I have looked at Myford ML4 which seem to go within my budget 

would this be capable of the tasks i have in mind and what should i look for when buying one and does it have any limitations?

Anyone recommend any other models that would be suitable and within the budget?

Looking to buy on the 25th so have a couple weeks to research it 

Thanks


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## Rorschach

I am biased but I think it's hard to beat a Myford Super7 for a home shop user, very well made machines. Hard to find close to your budget though.


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## t8hants

sometimes available at slightly less than the super 7, would be a Boxford.
I doubt if you could find an A, or B, but a C in tired condition might be available, although they do not have screw cutting.
big and old fashioned can sometimes get you what was a high spec machine, but it will weighty.


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## SChop

Thanks the super 7 looks perfect but alas out of my range

Will have a look at the Boxford

Have been looking on ebay but so many different types out there takes a lifetime reading up on them

I don't mind it being really old in fact I prefer the look of the old ones just want it to be able to perform all the tasks

Thanks


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## RobCee

To do threading of anything above M10, you really want something that can do 'screwcutting', which is the term for a lathe that can cut threads of different pitches. 
Another consideration is that most older lathes will be setup for Imperial thread pitches, which can sometimes be easily converted over to Metric, sometimes not - this often involves a screwcutting gearbox or lots of 'change wheels'. It makes life fun to be able to do both, but the hassle factor of converting from Imperial to Metric does depend on the work you are looking to do.


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## RogerP

Read right through this thread...

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/ ... ?th=121158


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## adidat

U doubt you're budget will get you very far. Apart from getting lucky on ebay. I think you could get something useable for about 400, as your only looking at doing small items. Try looking for old lathe on ebay as sometimes reallies of the deceased wint have a clue what they are trying to sell.

Adidat


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## MusicMan

An old continental machine will be metric. I have two prewar German Boley lathes of different sizes, which are excellent machines. Harder to find in this country, especially for the screw cutting versions but not impossible.

English makes to look at besides Myford (which tend to be costly) are Boxford, Smart & Brown, Colchester, Harrison.

www.lathes.co.uk is a fantastic resource for looking up specs of old machines.


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## graduate_owner

An issue that has not been mentioned yet is space and access / handling. I have a Myford M series and I can just about manage to lift it on my own as long as the stand is separate. The lathe and stand fit easily in my Focus estate. I was offered a Colchester Master just atter buying the Myford and couldn't resist it, but it is a different beast, weighing in at nearly a ton and needing a trailer with hydraulic crane to deliver. You might need to consider these aspects before deciding, if your workshop has restricted access. Also the Colchester is 3 phase - another possible issue, although I have seen plenty of adverts for Colchesters and Boxfords which are single phase. Be careful with Boxford - some models do not have screwcutting facilities, so check first. It is not feasible to retro-fit a screw cutting mechanism to them. The website lathes.co gives details of hundreds of lathes but the sheer number of makes and models is just staggering. You would also need to consider spindle thread size /tpi in case you end up with something that you can't easily get a chuck or faceplate for. Myford and Boxford are pretty standard threads.

If you are interested I am thinking of selling the Myford now. Pm me for details if so.

K


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## SChop

Hi graduate_owner yes I might be interested in buying your lathe and I don't think you are too far from me either!, I've not been a member long enough to send PM messages on here and the forum wont let me post my email address so maybe if you could send me a PM first it might let me reply? 

Thanks also everyone for the info and considerations so far!


Thanks


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## Harbo

You could always go for a new small Chinese one from the likes of Warco, ARCEurotrade etc.

Rod


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## SChop

Harbo":2vndmcd9 said:


> You could always go for a new small Chinese one from the likes of Warco, ARCEurotrade etc.
> 
> Rod



Yeah i have looked at that option but the reviews in majority are shockingly bad the ones that seem to be half decent like the Warco you have mentioned are high in demand and still very highly priced on the used market.

I really like the look at the Myfords, they are common enough to be affordable and there is a century of user knowledge and spares for them too.

I think I have managed to PM 'graduate_owner' now so will see what he has


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## marcros

i was recommended this book to get me started. https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/the- ... 0852422885 

I bought a copy and it looks very comprehensive. Slowly reading through it whilst i build a bench and get my lathe set up.


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## SChop

marcros":1ywc0fue said:


> i was recommended this book to get me started. https://www.whsmith.co.uk/products/the- ... 0852422885
> 
> I bought a copy and it looks very comprehensive. Slowly reading through it whilst i build a bench and get my lathe set up.



Great thanks for the link, will pick a copy up.

I've been watching clips on youtube in the mean time there's a lot on there for beginners

What Lathe have you got and what do you plan to use it for?


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## marcros

i have just bought an old boley one . I plan to turn some pen barrels and parts on it when set up. 

http://www.lathes.co.uk/boleylate4l/


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## SChop

marcros":1gy0glqu said:


> i have just bought an old boley one . I plan to turn some pen barrels and parts on it when set up.
> 
> http://www.lathes.co.uk/boleylate4l/



That looks the business


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## marcros

hopefully it will be. Like you, I didnt want to spend a fortune, and this one looked complete when I bought it. There will certainly be a steep learning curve, but I hope to use the winter to learn the basics.


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## graduate_owner

Hi SChop,
My Myford is probably as old, or slightly older than me, and I am 66. I bought it about 2 years ago and literally have made nothing on it because I have the Colchester. I have kept it because the spindle thread is the same as my ML8 wood lathe, and I was thinking perhaps to use the screw cutting facility to cut threads in hardwood, using my ML8 wood holding kit. Possibly some basic ornamental turning too, but realistically it is not going to happen, so I may as well pass it on to someone who will use it. I will probably sell on my ML8 too. Five lathes is just too many. (Colchester, Union Graduate bowl lathe, Viceroy wood lathe, ML8 and M series metal lathe).

K


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## SChop

graduate_owner":3vwvzrn0 said:


> Hi SChop,
> My Myford is probably as old, or slightly older than me, and I am 66. I bought it about 2 years ago and literally have made nothing on it because I have the Colchester. I have kept it because the spindle thread is the same as my ML8 wood lathe, and I was thinking perhaps to use the screw cutting facility to cut threads in hardwood, using my ML8 wood holding kit. Possibly some basic ornamental turning too, but realistically it is not going to happen, so I may as well pass it on to someone who will use it. I will probably sell on my ML8 too. Five lathes is just too many. (Colchester, Union Graduate bowl lathe, Viceroy wood lathe, ML8 and M series metal lathe).
> 
> K



That's quite a collection! 

Did you get my PM? I think it sent though not 100% sure


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## graduate_owner

Yes, I have sent you some details.

K


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## SChop

So it looks like I have found one and should be picking it up at the end of this month (thanks to this forum) 

Any suggestions where I can get cheap scrap metals to play around with? Looking at eBay brass bar isn't cheap not the sort of prices you would want to be cutting spinning tops out of anyway 

My other question I'll probably find the answer to on a forum search but in the men time.....

If I wanted.to get a mill would a horizontal mill plate on the lathe be passable for basic stuff or is there a danger it might bend the chuck with all the side force?

Cheers


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## MusicMan

I suggest you start with aluminium, which is cheaper and cuts fairly easily, but needs sharp tools for a good finish. Lubricate with WD40.

A mill attachment on the lathe is fine for light work.


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## porker

Sometimes engineering works have bar ends they will sell reasonably cheaply. I agree aluminium is good to start with. Try to get some free cutting mild steel as if you get any old scrap steel it may not machine well and make your learning much more difficult. 

There are several cheap books out there that will get you started and youtube has some good channels. John Mills does a session every Sunday night that I like to watch (doubleboost) with bits and pieces of machining. I think one thing I learnt early on was that you need a fair few bits and pieces of tooling to get going. Cutting tools (start with HSS and grind your own), dial indicator(s), drill bits, chucks, taps, dies etc. but you can build these up as you go along. 

I started milling on the lathe before I got my mill. One thing to remember here is that its not a good idea to try to hold a milling cutter in a three jaw chuck (DAMHIKT)!


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## SChop

Thanks chaps
I drove past a metal works place near me the other day that had a skip full so will stop in and see how friendly they are 

What's the best option for the milling chuck do you think poker?

The lathe I'm set on comes with either a 4 or 5 inch chuck for turning


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## porker

To hold a milling cutter in a lathe I would use a collet. Something like ER25. Can't remember their name but there is an outfit based in Hong Kong that ship very good value machine tools to UK. Will post a link later. Problem with a standard 3 jaw chuck is it can't grip the hardened shafts tight enough and the cutter gets pulled into the work with unpleasant consequences.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## porker

CTC Tools

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## graduate_owner

Hi Ctchop,
I think you have been trying to pm ms but somehow not getting through. Can you email me please?

Thanks.

K


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## SChop

graduate_owner":qp2lzggz said:


> Hi Ctchop,
> I think you have been trying to pm ms but somehow not getting through. Can you email me please?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> K



I've sent you an email G-O but not sure they are going through let me know if you get it 

Thanks


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## graduate_owner

Hi Ctchop,
No, I have not had an email from you since 10th Oct, and PMs don't seem to getting to me either, although I do get a forum email notification saying there is a new PM from you. So helpful. 
I have emailed you - have you had any emails from me?
Are you still considering my Myford or did you find something else? No problem either way, it's not going anywhere for the moment so take your time to make sure you get the lathe you want.

K

Edit - I will try contacting you again NOW on your gmail address

Edit 2. - email just sent.


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## SChop

graduate_owner":3tmhsefm said:


> Hi Ctchop,
> No, I have not had an email from you since 10th Oct, and PMs don't seem to getting to me either, although I do get a forum email notification saying there is a new PM from you. So helpful.
> I have emailed you - have you had any emails from me?
> Are you still considering my Myford or did you find something else? No problem either way, it's not going anywhere for the moment so take your time to make sure you get the lathe you want.
> 
> K
> 
> Edit - I will try contacting you again NOW on your gmail address
> 
> Edit 2. - email just sent.



Hi mate yes I am still on for your Myford, not received anything from you yet will have a look in my spam folder 

Last email I received from you was the batch of photos and I have sent so replys

Edit 1- not received anything checked all spam folders etc have sent you a fresh new email to see if that goes through

Cheers


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## graduate_owner

Well I really do not know what is going on, I am not getting your emails and you are not getting mine. I will try sending you a pm with my email address again. In fact I have 2 so I will send you both and we'll see if anything gets through? If not I will just post one of my email addresses here. We will sort out something - eventually.

PM coming up.

K

Edit

PM sent

K


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## SChop

graduate_owner":1mhxxeg9 said:


> Well I really do not know what is going on, I am not getting your emails and you are not getting mine. I will try sending you a pm with my email address again. In fact I have 2 so I will send you both and we'll see if anything gets through? If not I will just post one of my email addresses here. We will sort out something - eventually.
> 
> PM coming up.
> 
> K
> 
> Edit
> 
> PM sent
> 
> K



This is very strange, I have received your PM and mailed both addresses 
If you don't get them I'll try from my work email tomorrow morning 

Thanks


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## graduate_owner

Hi again,
We seem to be back to the problem of emails not arriving again. Are you sure you are typing in mine correctly? I seem to be getting PMs from you but no direct emails. Use the btinternet.com address rather than the yahoo one - that seemed to work last time.
AND - keep trying. We will get there with patience and perseverence.

K


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## Wildman

the Myford "M" is actually a Drummond, ~The war ministry passed production on to Myford. They are a very capable machine with one big drawback. The carriage feed is opposite to every other lathe so turning the wheel towards the tails stock actually runs the cutter towards the chuck. Many people have modified it by adding another gear in the train to reverse it and make it safe. 
The best small lathe handbook by far was written by Lawrence Sparey a brilliant Engineer. The book is called " The Amateurs Lathe", old it may be but often reprinted because it has never been bettered.


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## SChop

Wildman":tpa7vcd4 said:


> the Myford "M" is actually a Drummond, ~The war ministry passed production on to Myford. They are a very capable machine with one big drawback. The carriage feed is opposite to every other lathe so turning the wheel towards the tails stock actually runs the cutter towards the chuck. Many people have modified it by adding another gear in the train to reverse it and make it safe.
> The best small lathe handbook by far was written by Lawrence Sparey a brilliant Engineer. The book is called " The Amateurs Lathe", old it may be but often reprinted because it has never been bettered.



Hi wildcat, thanks for the info what is the hazard this causes?


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## TFrench

It's the opposite way to what you expect it to work, and different to every other lathe so it would be quite easy to wind the tool into the chuck unless you were used to it!


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## SChop

TFrench":1z7p09ib said:


> It's the opposite way to what you expect it to work, and different to every other lathe so it would be quite easy to wind the tool into the chuck unless you were used to it!



Ah OK no worries I'm sure I can work round that,


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## dickm

TFrench":ds2nt4hn said:


> It's the opposite way to what you expect it to work, and different to every other lathe so it would be quite easy to wind the tool into the chuck unless you were used to it!


.......which shouldn't be a problem if the OP has not used another lathe! Until he tries to do this and finds he's hardwired the wrong direction of rotation into his muscles.
Used to be fun when we had two Volvo 120s; SWMBO's was automatic, with the indicator switch on the right of the steering column and the gearchange on the left. The otherwise identical steering wheel on my manual estate had the indicators on the left.... Used to do some strange things unless mind was in gear.


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## DTR

My ML4 and ML7 had opposite turning handwheels; you soon get used to it. Although I once had a vice that closed up when you turned anticlockwise, I never got used to that one......

I second the recommendation for _The Amateur's Lathe_, it's a very good book.


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## SChop

Thanks guys for the heads up on the book will add it to my Xmas list

What are people doing for metal to learn on?


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## porker

To learn I would buy some aluminium and something like EN1a free cutting steel. You will pay a bit for it in small quantities from online sources unless you can get some bar ends locally from a machine shop. The reason I recommend this is because as a newbie there can often be a load of reasons for poor cutting or finish and one of these is a nasty bit of metal that won't cut well so I would eliminate this straight away and start with a known quantity.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk


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## graduate_owner

I bought a Mazda Demio about 18 years ago and that had indicators and wipers the opposite way round. It was a bit of a pain because our other car had the usual layout. I can well remember the time an oncoming car made a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre and nearly hit us - boy, I didn't half wash my windscreen at him.

K


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## Keith 66

You have made a good choice, i have a Boley & the build quality is light years in front of a Myford or far eastern lathe.


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## sunnybob

you will have trouble finding a lathe that will do what you want for less than double your stated price range.
Theres another very important point I doubt you realise.
Just about every thread on a japanese motorcycle is in metric fine (1.25tpmm).
Standard metric thread, also known as metric coarse (1.5tpmm),is what all normal threading machines are set up for, and will NOT screw into a motorcycle part.
Yes you can make spacers on the lathe, but the only way to put threads on any thing would be to buy a metric fine bolt and weld it on.


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## Wildman

you can thread any sort of thread with a coventry die box assuming you can get the right dies for it, all of the old /cheap machines will be imperial not metric so watch out for that as well.


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## graduate_owner

You can get gear wheels that will allow imperial lathes to cut approximations to metric threads. According to the conradhoffman website you can use 127 and 100 tooth wheels, or 47 and 37 tooth wheels for a slightly less accurate approximation. 80 and 63 is another combination. These apply to 8 tpi imperial lead screws. I have seen new 80 and 63 gears for sale on the Myford.co web site for about £50 inc VAT. I don't know how easy the others are to get hold of though. So if you need to cut metric threads all is not lost with an imperial lathe. I suppose these are the sort of bits that you accumulate as time goes on and the need arises.

K


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## chaoticbob

In principle you can cut any metric thread on a lathe with an imperial leadscrew (and vice versa) if you have a 127 tooth changewheel, as graduate_owner says. Reason being that an inch is (by definition) 25.4mm and 127 and 2 are the only prime factors of 254. Whether you can source the wheels and fit them the space available in is another matter of course....

Given what the OP is intending to do, I wonder if screwcutting capability is really that crucial - anything up to M12 (coarse or fine) I'd be reaching for taps/dies.
Rob.


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## woodfarmer

chaoticbob":2aqah3rr said:


> In principle you can cut any metric thread on a lathe with an imperial leadscrew (and vice versa) if you have a 127 tooth changewheel, as graduate_owner says. Reason being that an inch is (by definition) 25.4mm and 127 and 2 are the only prime factors of 254. Whether you can source the wheels and fit them the space available in is another matter of course....
> 
> Given what the OP is intending to do, I wonder if screwcutting capability is really that crucial - anything up to M12 (coarse or fine) I'd be reaching for taps/dies.
> Rob.



It is not always as easy as that. My Holbrook has a 42 tooth wheel on the input spindle which drives the reversing mechanism and eventually exits onto a 42 pitch wheel on the leadscrew input shaft. This goes through a gearbox which gives me about 24 different pitch threads. A 127 wheel on the leadscrew shaft would not give me any metric gears at all. I wanted 3.5mm and to get this a 43 /12 tooth wheel is needed with 7tpi selected  Alternatively I could use an 87 tooth wheel and select 3 1/2 tpi which would be close enough. However that is the only metric pitch that an 87 tooth wheel would give me. (leadscrew is 1/4" pitch). Would need different wheels for different pitches and then only approximate. Metric threads are the work of the devil. Not sure then if the multi start would work although both rh and lh threads would be fine.


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## SChop

sunnybob":1bq5na1a said:


> you will have trouble finding a lathe that will do what you want for less than double your stated price range.
> Theres another very important point I doubt you realise.
> Just about every thread on a japanese motorcycle is in metric fine (1.25tpmm).
> Standard metric thread, also known as metric coarse (1.5tpmm),is what all normal threading machines are set up for, and will NOT screw into a motorcycle part.
> Yes you can make spacers on the lathe, but the only way to put threads on any thing would be to buy a metric fine bolt and weld it on.



I only really touch old English or American stuff and would retap where nessary 
Where there is a will there's a way


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## DTR

I've cut metric threads on my Myford with just the standard set of gears (20, 25, 30 etc up to 70), albeit using two 20T gears. Yes there will be some slight inaccuracy but that only comes into effect over long lengths of engagement. For typical fastener lengths the error is negligible. 

Having said that I agree with chaoticbob; taps and dies are the easiest way unless it's some kind of special job. In my case it was cutting an M14 x 1mm thread into some kind of kryptonite alloy. The die wouldn't touch it :?


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## SChop

sunnybob":1r6u7exo said:


> you will have trouble finding a lathe that will do what you want for less than double your stated price range..



I do believe I have found the exact one I want and not too far off my budget from a very kind chap on here might need a little attention to a couple of the gears but looks to be perfect for the job

Thanks also everyone for your advice and interest much appreciated


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## Wildman

MusicMan":38dw1mcu said:


> I suggest you start with aluminium, which is cheaper and cuts fairly easily, but needs sharp tools for a good finish. Lubricate with WD40.
> 
> A mill attachment on the lathe is fine for light work.


I have a potts milling spindle I would sell no idea of price though but it is same sort of vintage as the Drummond (M) and almost certainly featured in Lawrence Sparey's book " the amateurs lathe" a brilliant book by the way that has never been bettered.


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