# Hand Saw Sharpening



## deema (7 May 2014)

Before anyone moans, I'm not asking how to sharpen a saw, or the best method, jig or technique. Far more mundane. Can anyone recommend anywhere to get hand saws sharpened? I hate doing it, my eye sight could be better, and life is too short. But I do like a really sharp saw, and I'm struggling to find anywhere that can do it.


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## caroleb (7 May 2014)

FWIW I did try to get some of mine done some time ago. We have a place down the road called Bedford Saw (google them) and they certainly used to do them, but whether or not they still do I have no idea. I think I gave up and learnt (?) how to do them myself. I would far rather someone really capable do them, but I can improve most with a little effort. I know you didn't ask but I use an Eclipse file with jig attached which does make it easier, and my eyes aren't good. Or freehand if I feel brave.

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Perhaps Pedder could help but it would have to be a nice saw to make it worth it.

Caz


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## Ali (8 May 2014)

There's a real (hand) tools revival going on, I'm surprised no entrepreneurial soul has taken thought about starting this service. It's definitely something I would have used because I am not set up to sharpen.


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## Peter Sefton (8 May 2014)

Ali":etlu0118 said:


> There's a real (hand) tools revival going on, I'm surprised no entrepreneurial soul has taken thought about starting this service. It's definitely something I would have used because I am not set up to sharpen.



You are right it is very hard to find someone who knows what the are doing, my local saw doctors are a fair size established company but they have lost the skill to resharpen small saws. 
I am not saying you won't find people who say they can do the job but it depends on what level of refinement you are looking for. 

Cheers Peter


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## MIGNAL (8 May 2014)

The volume isn't there for setting up to serve a local market, which means mail order. Factor in postage charges both ways and getting your saw sharpened can be more than many people want to pay. Clearly worth it for the expensive saws or if you have a good saw that you want to keep for sentimental reasons. As a P/T income you might do OK.
Around 10 years ago, before I learnt to sharpen my own saws, I sent a couple off to Thomas Flinn. I figured that if anyone could sharpen a saw it was a saw maker. They advised that if the teeth were too uneven they would simply swap the blade out because it wasn't worth recutting all the teeth. My saws were perfect but just had dull edges. There's a big difference between restoring a saw with just dull edges and one that has been previously filed badly. My saws came back but two of the teeth on one of the saws were. . . uneven! It was sharp but someone had clearly lost their way filing the teeth. I wasn't too upset. The saw was 20 TPI, hardly the easiest to do by hand filing. So clearly for Thomas Flinn it wasn't worth spending time on a saw with wibbly wobbly teeth - at least that was their thoughts around 10 years ago.


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## bugbear (8 May 2014)

MIGNAL":3huezko6 said:


> The volume isn't there for setting up to serve a local market, which means mail order. Factor in postage charges both ways and getting your saw sharpened can be more than many people want to pay. Clearly worth it for the expensive saws or if you have a good saw that you want to keep for sentimental reasons.



Fully agreed, sadly.

BugBear


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## AndyT (8 May 2014)

And just in case anyone was thinking of setting up a mail order saw sharpening business... since most of the world swapped to power saws or disposable hard tooth saws, the demand for proper saw files has plummetted. At the same time, file manufacture has largely moved to low wage countries, making down to a target price, leaving out vital details such as properly sharpened and hardened edges. Consequently, it has become very hard to buy saw sharpening files that work reliably. 

This puts us in a similar position to the hardy few photographers who want to use film, when the factories and processing labs to support it have almost all gone. 

For an individual user, it's still possible to buy enough old stock as a lifetime supply, but if you wanted to base a business on filing saws, you would need a secure source of good files. Hence the international call for action as seen here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/petition-for-quality-saw-files-t71552.html and in most other woodworking forums.


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## DuncanA (8 May 2014)

I can't speak for how reliable either of these companies are but I came across them whilst looking for a saw sharpening service some time ago. In the end I never had the courage to send away my valuable (sentimentally more than monetarily) saws to a company I could find no reviews for. 

http://www.javelinsawdoctor.com/services.html

http://www.sesaws.co.uk/category/HANDSAWS,b.html

I've also bookmarked this one, although I now can't see any mention of sharpening hand saws
http://www.scsaws.co.uk/index.php?webpa ... =Sc%20Saws


If you have any old saws that you are prepared to risk sending away they might be worth a punt. And if you do make sure to post a review here - I've still got a few saws that I feel would benefit from a professional sharpen as my current, amateur saw sharpening results are a bit hit and miss.


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## Cheshirechappie (8 May 2014)

deema":38kl40rp said:


> Before anyone moans, I'm not asking how to sharpen a saw, or the best method, jig or technique. Far more mundane. Can anyone recommend anywhere to get hand saws sharpened? I hate doing it, my eye sight could be better, and life is too short. But I do like a really sharp saw, and I'm struggling to find anywhere that can do it.



Advert spotted in a local freebie magazine;

Priestner Saws - Specialists in Circular Saws, Planer Blades, Router Cutters, Bandsaws, Profile Cutters and Handsaws. Front Workshop, Grosvenor Farms Ltd, Aldford Hall Farm, Aldford, Chester. CH3 6HJ. Tel. 07740 737257 or 07773 338485.


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## Jacob (8 May 2014)

Saw doctors are all over the place. There'll be one near you, in one guise or another. Ask at a tool or woodwork shop.


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## whiskywill (8 May 2014)

Or this one. http://www.prosharp.co.uk/services.asp?c=s


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## bugbear (8 May 2014)

deema":d1ditz62 said:


> Before anyone moans, I'm not asking how to sharpen a saw, or the best method, jig or technique. Far more mundane. Can anyone recommend anywhere to get hand saws sharpened? I hate doing it, my eye sight could be better, and life is too short. But I do like a really sharp saw, and I'm struggling to find anywhere that can do it.



Quite a lot of companies claim to do handsaws,
but the majority of reports don't speak highly of their actual work.

Most saw doctors today are using highly sophisticated grinding
jigs to work on circular and band saw blades.

Handsaws are a back water to a modern saw shop.

Send a "beater" saw to check before you send a saw
of any historical, monetary or sentimental value.

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (8 May 2014)

£10 seems pretty low for a handsaw, sharpened and set. Especially when they are charging £6 to sharpen a Plane blade!
BTW. I bought some NOS saw files off of Ebay a few months ago. Prior to these I used The Bahco and the Grobet. No doubt about it, the old stock I bought from Ebay are certainly much better files. Cost per file was about the same as a modern one.


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## gregmcateer (8 May 2014)

This guy is great - Tom Arnull. Runs his own workshop and does a really nice job on all sorts of sharpenable items;

http://www.prosharp.co.uk/services.asp?c=s

HTH

Greg


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## Ali (8 May 2014)

Some interesting posts and I appreciate the sentiments about the problem. This is a problem that will creep up more and more because there are plenty of premium saws being made and sold every day to new users who will want their saws sharpened if they lack the ability to do this themselves. I am one of those people - I recently bought a Lie Nielsen Dovetail Saw, some Veritas Carcass Saws and a Bad Axe Sash Saw as I lacked the means to buy an old saw and resharpen them. Users in America/Canada are lucky to be able to resend such saws to the manufacturer but maybe something they and their distributors should consider before they sell globally. I will certainly have to think about the life cycle of the next hand tool I buy.

Maybe the same problems that affected hand tool users in the past will affect current users in this revival.


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## MIGNAL (8 May 2014)

Yes but I doubt that Lie Nielsen, Veritas etc. can employ one guy (in the UK) to sharpen their saws. The problem (if there is one) isn't of their making. Despite what many people think sharpening saws isn't rocket science and there's no real magic to it. Don't be fooled into thinking that there are just a few guys in the world who can sharpen saws like nobody else. All one really needs is someone who knows about handsaws, rip & x-cut, fleam, pitch and setting. Of course experience and someone who takes pride in their work goes a long way too. I fully understand that you don't want to send expensive saws to a general sharpening service. I've had mixed results with these general saw services too but we shouldn't tar them all with the same brush. That's why Bugbears advice on sending out a low value saw is a good idea.


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## deema (8 May 2014)

Thanks for the positive replies, I will have a look at at each suggestion. The saddest part of this string is that I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that it may be worth buying (for example) Veritas dove tail and tennon saws and when they start to become a little bit dull selling them on eBay and buy another one. What's probably stopping me is that I don't want to have some aspiring woody becoming disillusioned because they have saved up and bought a nice but dull saw. 

I spoke to Lie Nielson when they were at the Axminsiter site in Warrington, and they suggested I could send any LN saws back to the USA. (It would be cheaper to throw them away and buy a new one).


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## Peter Sefton (8 May 2014)

Deema I agree with your conclusions I recently had a student who liked the Veritas saw but said he may just treat it as disposable when it gets blunt which is a shame but reality.
We do sell Veritas saws which are very good but I can't advise anyone wholeheartedly who they should get to sharpen them . I do know of local saw doctors who say then can but will just do them by machine they will not hand file.
I know that Thomas Flinn will resharpen the saws they supply us either by machine or hand file. We stock two ranges of hand filed saws made by them - the Dorchester and the Pax 1776. Although they are both hand filed you would expect them to cut the same, but they don't. They are both better than the machine cut Lynx that they make for us which is a fair saw for the money. The Dorchester is hand filed, but for the Pax 1776 a new file is used every time and this does give it the edge over the Dorchester. I can try to cut my own hair you but would I want to, or do I think it is a job for a professional? The same goes for using the Thomas Flinn's saw doctor to file my saw - yes I am able to do it but he can do a far better job than me ... For me this is reason enough to supply and support our one remaining Sheffield saw maker.
I did sharpen saws with my grandfather who would do his saws every week but they were large hands saws which are OK to do but I feel a 20TPI saw is a different thing altogether.
If anyone can recommend Wholeheartedly a good saw doctor for the Veritas saws please let us know.
Cheers Peter


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## MIGNAL (8 May 2014)

I have the Veritas 14 TPI Carcass saw and it's probably a bit too good to treat it as a disposable saw. I believe they are machine sharpened from Veritas and it's the sharpest Western type saw that I've come across 'out of the box', most of the Japanese saws come with a similar level of sharpness. 
I guess that if you are going to treat it as a disposable saw you may as well have a go at sharpening it. What's the worst that can happen? you bin it - just as you intended in the first instance. I had the exact same thought when I was about to throw away a trusty old 26 TPI Zona saw. 26 TPI is seriously fine but then I thought I had nothing to lose but a tiny amount of wear on a needle file and a bit of time. I simply filed straight across each tooth, one stroke. No point in turning it around and no point in sharpening it cross cut. 
I was amazed at how sharp the thing turned out. At least as good as when I purchased it. I 'll get one or two more 'sharpenings' out of it before the teeth really do become a bit too uneven. Then it goes in the bin. Time took? About 5 minutes all in but when you don't have to top, set and worry too much about tooth geometry things can go mighty fast.
My guess is that you'll probably lose around £25 (or slightly more) by putting a dull Veritas saw on Ebay. If the teeth are in fine shape it shouldn't cost more than that with a saw sharpener, including the post. Which is also roughly the price people pay for a replacement blade on a £40 Japanese saw.


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## Peter Sefton (8 May 2014)

Fair play as you say nothing to lose
Peter


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## Richard T (8 May 2014)

Reading some of the prices quoted for sharpening hand saws leaves me very suspicious. Most of the second hand saws that I see need partial or full re-cuts, not to mention many jointings and touch - ups. 

When you do it yourself it's just part of the job and you can take your time but what would you charge to do it for someone else? By the hour/day? 

Anyone who charges £10 to sharpen, set (and what about straightening?) a saw unseen, with a file, ... will starve.


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## custard (8 May 2014)

Peter Sefton":69db1kpb said:


> Deema I agree with your conclusions I recently had a student who liked the Veritas saw but said he may just treat it as disposable when it gets blunt which is a shame but reality.
> We do sell Veritas saws which are very good but I can't advise anyone wholeheartedly who they should get to sharpen them . I do know of local saw doctors who say then can but will just do them by machine they will not hand file.
> I know that Thomas Flinn will resharpen the saws they supply us either by machine or hand file. We stock two ranges of hand filed saws made by them - the Dorchester and the Pax 1776. Although they are both hand filed you would expect them to cut the same, but they don't. They are both better than the machine cut Lynx that they make for us which is a fair saw for the money. The Dorchester is hand filed, but for the Pax 1776 a new file is used every time and this does give it the edge over the Dorchester. I can try to cut my own hair you but would I want to, or do I think it is a job for a professional? The same goes for using the Thomas Flinn's saw doctor to file my saw - yes I am able to do it but he can do a far better job than me ... For me this is reason enough to supply and support our one remaining Sheffield saw maker.
> I did sharpen saws with my grandfather who would do his saws every week but they were large hands saws which are OK to do but I feel a 20TPI saw is a different thing altogether.
> ...



Excellent post, lot to think about there. Thanks for that.


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## Corneel (8 May 2014)

The sawdoctor overhere only punches new teeth in the plate. So you loose a lot of plate on each sharpening and the teeth are very precise but not very sharp.


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## bugbear (8 May 2014)

Richard T":3vzdmwj6 said:


> Reading some of the prices quoted for sharpening hand saws leaves me very suspicious. Most of the second hand saws that I see need partial or full re-cuts, not to mention many jointings and touch - ups.
> 
> When you do it yourself it's just part of the job and you can take your time but what would you charge to do it for someone else? By the hour/day?
> 
> Anyone who charges £10 to sharpen, set (and what about straightening?) a saw unseen, with a file, ... will starve.



I hope (for their sake) a "normal" sharpen is a tenner, but fixing a basket case is extra.

I have seem some quite remarkably bad saws offered s/h. I assume the culprit/owner doesn't notice,
since they get bad very gradually, one botched filing at a time.

BugBear


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## Cheshirechappie (8 May 2014)

Richard T":elj96bzo said:


> Reading some of the prices quoted for sharpening hand saws leaves me very suspicious. Most of the second hand saws that I see need partial or full re-cuts, not to mention many jointings and touch - ups.
> 
> When you do it yourself it's just part of the job and you can take your time but what would you charge to do it for someone else? By the hour/day?
> 
> Anyone who charges £10 to sharpen, set (and what about straightening?) a saw unseen, with a file, ... will starve.



Good point.

To just touch up a slightly dull saw, £10 is probably about fair (15 to 30 minutes). To joint, re-shape, set and finally sharpen a saw (which is what you have to do if it's blunt, but the toothline is still straight) is about an hour's work, allowing for re-packaging and paperwork. To recondition an Ebay saw with a hollowed toothline and all the other horrors that turn up is about half a day's work if you're lucky - assuming the blade is straight.

Anybody running a business hand-sharpening handsaws would have to charge an average of about £25 a saw plus postage, to cover all business expenses and leave a wage of (frankly) not a fortune. Most people, I suspect, would regard £35 - £40 a sharpening, including postage both ways, as excessive.

That's probably why there are so few commercial handsaw sharpeners using files.

Seriously folks, sharpening saws is no more difficult than cutting dovetails - there's plenty of 'how-to' information out there. It's worth overcoming the initial apprehension and having a go yourself - sharp saws are a pleasure to use.


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## Brit (Andy) (9 May 2014)

This is a very interesting discussion, which I must confess makes me a little sad. When I taught myself to sharpen saws, I gave some serious thought to starting a sideline business offering a saw sharpening service to other UK woodworkers. If I was retired I think I would definitely have done it, but I'm not yet and probably won't be for at least another 12 years.

I would genuinely like to help other woodworkers out and return their saws to sharp, but I just couldn't see a way to make it work. Let's say I was to charge £10 + postage to sharpen a saw. I would have to make it very clear what condition I would expect your saw to be in for me to just have to 'sharpen' it. To me, sharpening a saw would involve giving the teeth a light jointing (a couple of passes with a mill file), reset the teeth if needed and sharpen the teeth with a couple of stokes of the appropriate saw file, returning the saw to its owner tested and razor sharp. The trouble is that people would want to send me their latest ebay purchase to sharpen which invariably would require a lot more than that. I have purchased and restored quite few saws and almost without exception the plates had a wave, the backs were often not completely straight, the teeth needed heavy re-shaping or re-cutting prior to sharpening, the handles were ill-fitting, and the plates had varying degrees of pitting. Now whilst all of these problems can be rectified (except the pitting unless you install a new plate), it would take me a hell of a lot longer than it would to just 'sharpen' a saw. Whilst I know that some of you understand exactly what I'm talking about, there would be many people wanting to send me there saws who wouldn't understand and it isn't the easiest thing to explain to someone over the phone. Until I got to see each saw, I wouldn't be able to tell what needed doing to it. Then when I told the sender, they wouldn't want to pay the extra and would ask me to send it back. :lol: 

Add to that the fact that I work away all week and at the weekends have a house and garden to maintain and wife who expects me to talk to her. As it is, I'm lucky if I get a couple of hours a week on average to do some woodworking. I wish it was feasible for me to sharpen some saws for some fellow UK woodworkers, but it just ain't.

That's one of the main reasons I produced my 2 1/4 hour saw sharpening video and posted it on YouTube (http://youtu.be/u-_MF2Mnxwc). I think if you are physically able to sharpen your own saws, you should really have a go. You can't do any damage that can't be put right and you might amaze yourself. We have to keep the art alive guys don't we?

Take care,

Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (9 May 2014)

Andy, if you need a little more free time in your day you could always stop talking to your wife. :lol:


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## Brit (Andy) (9 May 2014)

Yeah but then she'd leave me and I'd have to clean the house as well, so I'd have even less time to do some woodworking.  (I hope she never reads this or I'll be for it)

I wish there was a way to help out, I really do. I'd have to give 40% of that £10 to the tax man straight away and I would need to buy a new saw file every three saws I sharpened. It doesn't leave much does it?


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## AndyNC (9 May 2014)

Axminster tools in Basingstoke offer a hand saw sharpening service for about £10. As far as I knwow they it was a new service but I don't know if they work was done locally or whether they shipped it off to central local.

I was thinking of getting and old S&J I had most of my married life done as a tester. I think they charge a little more if the teeth need re-cutting.

Hope this helps

Andy


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## KevM (9 May 2014)

Another option, unless I missed a mention of them - I've never used them, these guys are advertising on Ebay - but they do seem to exist in the real world too..

Most of the feedback seems to be for lawnmower blades, so maybe take the earlier advice of sending a saw you're not too attached to as a tester.

Set & sharpen £10 
Recut, set & sharpen £16

Seems to be charging an additional £4.95, presumably for return shipping.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tenon-Saw-Han ... 7675.l2557

Gardner Grinding Services
Newcastle Business Village
33 Bellingham drive
North Tyne Ind Est
Newcastle Upon Tyne
Tyne & Wear
NE12 9SZ
www.gardnergrindingservices.co.uk
[email protected] 
07906 560 586


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