# Newbie - my first EVER bowl



## phil bowles (10 Jul 2006)

I have been working up to this for a LONG time - I'm on a budget and strapped for time...I guess this is nothing to all of you experienced turners...but I'm over the moon about it! Its the first ever complete and (almost) useful thing I have ever made on a lathe!

Its from a lump of ash, an offcut from a friend's PROPER workshop - It has a lot of flaws, but I don't care as I'm still learning and making mistakes is all part of the process.


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## CHJ (10 Jul 2006)

Welcome to the forum *Phil*,

Nothing wrong with that for a first effort.

It does not have flaws! you must remember they are features :wink:
Before long you will be looking for timber with maximum 'features' then nobody will be any the wiser, especially if you don't tell them.

Next time aim to get the rim looking thinner, even if you can't get the rest of it thin, the visual effect of a thinner rim will give it a 'lighter' look


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## phil bowles (10 Jul 2006)

Thanks for the encouragement...I LIKE the "features" in the wood....the flaws I meant were the man-made ones: a couple of gouges one the underside and a "ding" or two where I got a nasty "catch"...If I had turned them out, instead of sanding over them, I'd have been showing my first ever EGG-CUP!!!

Never mind, my mum will love it anyway - she knows even less about these things than me!


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## CHJ (10 Jul 2006)

phil bowles":2ka31htz said:


> Thanks for the encouragement...I LIKE the "features" in the wood....the flaws I meant were the man-made ones: a couple of gouges one the underside and a "ding" or two where I got a nasty "catch"...If I had turned them out, instead of sanding over them, I'd have been showing my first ever EGG-CUP!!!
> 
> Never mind, my mum will love it anyway - she knows even less about these things than me!



If the odd 'feature' is in an area that has other natural markings try filling with sanding dust and CA glue or cellulose sanding sealer before sanding, a darker (contrasting) wood dust often looks more natural than a poor match. Often a job to tell the filling from a natural knot flaw.


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## Newbie_Neil (10 Jul 2006)

Hi Phil

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil


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## PowerTool (10 Jul 2006)

Hi Phil - firstly,welcome to the forum  

And secondly,very nice bowl - love the shape! I'm glad you are happy with it,as I certainly would be.What finish did you use ?

Andrew


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## dedee (10 Jul 2006)

Phil,
I see no flaws - looks very good to me.

And welcome.

Andy


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## Taffy Turner (10 Jul 2006)

Phil,

Welcome to the forum. Are you sure that's your FIRST bowl - looks good to me mate!

Keep going - the learning curve on bowl turing is pretty steep - each one you turn will be noticeably better than the last one.

Regards

Gary


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## Good Surname or what ? (10 Jul 2006)

Excellent. As a lathe newbie myself I'm fully of admiration.

Spindles are my limit at the moment. I'm struggling with sharpening :roll: (Having got the whole chisel and plane iron sharpening thing licked, it's a bit disheartening to find it so hard to sharpen turning tools - never did like bench grinders :evil: )


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## PowerTool (10 Jul 2006)

Good Surname or what ?":2gscpdfp said:


> Excellent. As a lathe newbie myself I'm fully of admiration.
> 
> Spindles are my limit at the moment. I'm struggling with sharpening :roll: (Having got the whole chisel and plane iron sharpening thing licked, it's a bit disheartening to find it so hard to sharpen turning tools - never did like bench grinders :evil: )



Phil - this months Woodturning magazine (July) has an excellent section on sharpening woodturning chisels - well worth a read.Tried some of the tips at the weekend,and it definitely helped.

Andrew


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## phil bowles (11 Jul 2006)

Thanks for the resounding welcome chaps! and YES, it IS my first ever "thing" off the lathe...I had a few practise runs spindle-wise making things that MIGHT become handles for something one day...I was getting used to the feel, the sounds...the amount of shavings!!!! etc...then I took the plunge with the bowl. (PS all the flaws are on the other side!)

The finish was simple wax rubbed in with steel wool

NOW I have a question re sharpening.....

Just bought the perform / axminster wet grinder.....WHERE do you rest the tool when using the wet wheel? As i see it the top of the wheel should be coming towards you...which means that you have to get in BEHIND the damn thing...and then there is no room for a jig or rest to get the right angle....help! Those "knife" notches seems like a motorbike roofrack...


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2006)

phil bowles":1dkhc49m said:


> ...snip..NOW I have a question re sharpening.....
> 
> Just bought the perform / axminster wet grinder.....WHERE do you rest the tool when using the wet wheel? As i see it the top of the wheel should be coming towards you...which means that you have to get in BEHIND the damn thing...and then there is no room for a jig or rest to get the right angle....help! Those "knife" notches seems like a motorbike roofrack...



Phil, are you trying to sharpen your turning tools on that wet wheel?

If so, would have thought it just about impossible.

This is the simple setup I use for lathe tools.


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## Horst Hohoff (11 Jul 2006)

Hi Phil,
Not bad for a first ever ( much better than mine ), especially when you look at it from the top. But there is something that spoils it a bit for me and that's the foot. It's much too big for a bowl of this size. Furthermore it's sides are more or less vertical. For me this gives the impression, that the foot isn't really a part of the bowl, rather an alien element, that's been attached afterwards. If you do the side of the bowl S - shaped you can make the foot an integral part of the bowl. And you don't need a recess as big as yours to safely chuck the blank. If you don't have any, it would be worth investing into a smaller set of jaws for the chuck. But I wouldn't alter this bowl, but rather get a new piece of wood and try again.


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## phil bowles (11 Jul 2006)

Horst Hohoff":14okpuz3 said:


> Hi Phil,
> Not bad for a first ever ( much better than mine ), especially when you look at it from the top. But there is something that spoils it a bit for me and that's the foot. It's much too big for a bowl of this size. Furthermore it's sides are more or less vertical. For me this gives the impression, that the foot isn't really a part of the bowl, rather an alien element, that's been attached afterwards. If you do the side of the bowl S - shaped you can make the foot an integral part of the bowl. And you don't need a recess as big as yours to safely chuck the blank. If you don't have any, it would be worth investing into a smaller set of jaws for the chuck. But I wouldn't alter this bowl, but rather get a new piece of wood and try again.



Horst,

thanks for the constructive comments - the foot is that large as I used an expanding chuck...and being a newbie...getting the hole the right siez took some time. Of course that amount of time also made it twice as wide as it needed to be!

Having said that, I kinda like it that way, but I will definitely try to get ir smaller and more integral with the design next time


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## phil bowles (11 Jul 2006)

Phil, are you trying to sharpen your turning tools on that wet wheel?

If so, would have thought it just about impossible.

This is the simple setup I use for lathe tools.[/quote]

CHJ - I guess in my reading I thought wet ones were better as they kept the steel cool and stopped it losing its edge due to over-heating...I havent used it yet....but I WAS planning to....should i do the major work on the white wheel as normal, then just hone on the wet one?

Does the white wheel run cooler than the nasty grey ones on my cheap grinder, or will I have to keep dipping the tool to cool it while I grind on the white? So many questions!


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2006)

phil bowles":29fo3ydy said:


> CHJ - I guess in my reading I thought wet ones were better as they kept the steel cool and stopped it losing its edge due to over-heating...I havent used it yet....but I WAS planning to....should i do the major work on the white wheel as normal, then just hone on the wet one?
> 
> Does the white wheel run cooler than the nasty grey ones on my cheap grinder, or will I have to keep dipping the tool to cool it while I grind on the white? So many questions!



The white wheel should be fine, as long as you keep it dressed to keep it 'sharp', having said that I have only dressed my white wheel once in the last twelve months.

If your turning tools are HSS then there is no requirement to cool them when sharpening due to their higher heat treatment temperatures, carbon steel needs more care and water cooling is best.

If your wheel is cutting cleanly then only the lightest touch is required and very little heat should be generated, reshaping the tool is a different matter, but again minimal pressure should be applied. 90% of the heat generated should be dissipating in the sparks.

In my opinion there is no benefit in honing the cutting edge, the edge will be under far greater loads during turning than in hand tool use and a feather edge will disappear in the first few revolutions.

It is more important to lightly redress the edge on the grinding wheel every few minutes especially with the harder or more abrasive woods.

Some basic facts about grinding wheels HERE, just remember to take the vested trade interest of this site into account before you rush out to purchase more exotic stones.

Regarding your 'cheap and nasty grey wheels' most of the heat generated may be because they are glazed (polished) and need "dressing" in order to present new sharp particles. If you have to apply any pressure at all to remove metal then the wheel needs dressing.


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## phil bowles (11 Jul 2006)

Wow I LOVE this place already! Decades of wisdom and experience that you just can't read in any number of books - and all for free! I am REALLY grateful for your time and effort chaps - thanks.

The grey wheel is pretty new...I dont think its a dressing problem, tho I will get one of those nifty diamond sticks or something similar...I think the problem os the nut that hold the tool - ie ME being gorilla-fisted due to inexperience.

I shall return to my shed (sorry "workshop") with a lighter touch - AND since you all seem so interested (you fools!) I will take some pics of my very "compact and bijou" workshop...half of which I built myself and I'm more proud of than my bowl.

When the friendly bombs come and fall on Harlow (oh please hurry) It will be the only thing left standing.

PS how about a "men and their sheds" section ? like WW magazine has...Im sure other geeks like me would appreciate / envy other's workshops!


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## PowerTool (11 Jul 2006)

phil bowles":2sadnkwk said:


> I shall return to my shed (sorry "workshop") with a lighter touch - AND since you all seem so interested (you fools!) I will take some pics of my very "compact and bijou" workshop...half of which I built myself and I'm more proud of than my bowl.



That would be good - I always enjoy workshop tours ("virtual" ones included) as there is almost always a good idea you can pick up from them.  

Andrew


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## DaveL (11 Jul 2006)

phil bowles":224fx5cb said:


> PS how about a "men and their sheds" section ? like WW magazine has...Im sure other geeks like me would appreciate / envy other's workshops!


Well how about posting the details/tour of your shop in the:
*Projects, workshop tours and past mistakes*
Forum for our edification and pleasure? There are a few in there if you look, but don't limit it to men, there are some very skilled members of the womanly persuasion.   :shock:


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## Tony Spear (11 Jul 2006)

Just bought the perform / axminster wet grinder.....WHERE do you rest the tool when using the wet wheel? As i see it the top of the wheel should be coming towards you...which means that you have to get in BEHIND the damn thing...and then there is no room for a jig or rest to get the right angle....help! Those "knife" notches seems like a motorbike roofrack...[/quote]

Phil,

it's supposed to revolve away from you - it's for honing not grinding! I've cut the silly trough down on mine to permit me to fit the Axminster tool grinding rest. It's amazing what 30 seconds on that will do!


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## Horst Hohoff (12 Jul 2006)

Hello,
It has already been mentioned, that overheating is not such a big issue with HSS, it is stable up to about 570°C. But nevertheless I always plead for grinders with half the normal speed and 40 mm wide wheels. The Creusen TS 7500 is such a machine ( available from Axminster ). I was happy to get one of the last Hegner grinders with electronic control and I recently sharpened a bunch of *toolsteel* tools for a friend. There was no sign of overheating at all, which is mainly due to the slow speed. Wet grinders like the Tormek do a good job, but the others are faster. And if a low speed one is used there is no danger of overheating anything.


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## CHJ (12 Jul 2006)

Not disputing your experience/findings re slower grinding speeds at all *Horst*, but when I was struggling to achieve what I considered acceptable hand finishing of my turning tools *Chris* posted This Quote which I must say fits well with all my engineering experience.

Unfortunately the last 20yrs or so of my 'grinding' experience had been with exotic machines and materiels and hand skills had taken a back seat causing me some frustration at the time trying to do something that I felt should have been well within my capabilities.

Note to *Phil*: If you read the rest of that thread you will see that I am only 18 months or so ahead of you.


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## La Truciolara (17 Jul 2006)

*Welcome to the forum Phil*
Your bowl is very well turned, and it must have been a great satisfaction. as shape is concerned, it all depends on individual taste. 
For sharpening your tools, the wet grinding is not a must, neither is honing by the way. These techniques were necessary years ago prior to have HSS gouges. In addition the perfect and glittering finish you get is sure a satisfaction, but your sharpeining does not last any longer that the one you could do directly on your white wheel.
Keep up the good turning and show us your "second ever Bowles" :lol:


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