# Drilling forged mild steel balls for vice handles



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

Hi all,

I’m restoring a Record 112 vice, and while it is in great condition there is a kink in the handle which is slightly annoying. The cost for some replacement EN16T 3/8 rod being £6 delivered makes it an easy choice for just replacing the handles rather than heating and straightening the old one given that I don’t have a method for heating the bar. 

So now I just need a way to stop it falling through the boss. I have purchased some forged mild steel balls that are 35 mm in diameter, and so all I need to do is: drill the rod for an m8 threaded hole; drill the balls for a 5/8 recess and the further drill for an m8 threaded hole; tap the holes; connect with some threaded bar & loctite and all done.

The only step in this process that concerns me is getting the hole in the balls perpendicular to the surface. I don’t have a metal lathe, but do have a 2hp Jet 3520, and the Axminster 114 chuck with engineering jaws, and have drilled out 1” holes in copper and aluminium before so I’m not worried about the power, just the accuracy. 

I think I need a small ‘flat’ on the surface of the ball, but how to achieve that without a toolpost tool?

My gut instinct would be to try to flatten the surface of the ball while rotating slowly in the jaws, but both an angle grinder or file seem less than ideal. I have some carbide wood turning tools, but a not keen on trying those as I doubt the angles would be right. I might try scraping the surface with some HSS tools to see if I can remove enough to make a flat spot. 

Any pointers or advice welcome. 

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

Vice for reference.


----------



## sunnybob (21 Sep 2020)

belt sander will give you a starting flat. Why are bothering with threading it? drill an interference hole and then whack the end of the bar over with a club hammer.


----------



## Nigel Burden (21 Sep 2020)

If you have no intention of using the existing bar, why not cut the ends off that and use them. They already have a flat.

Nigel.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

sunnybob said:


> belt sander will give you a starting flat. Why are bothering with threading it? drill an interference hole and then whack the end of the bar over with a club hammer.


Good point on the sander, I don’t have a belt sander, but I could try a sanding pad in a drill that I use for sanding bowls. 

Threading: mostly because I have seen others do it this way (blame YouTube), and it seems simple. I would love to be able to make an interference-fit hole and shaft pair, but I don’t want to get into serious metalworking at this point.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

Nigel Burden said:


> If you have no intention of using the existing bar, why not cut the ends off that and use them. They already have a flat.
> 
> Nigel.


They were originally made in the factory by ‘upsetting’ the 5/8 rod, so are completely part of the shaft. Therefore when I cut them off, the ‘flat’ will be whatever shape the end is from my cutting with an angle grinder or hacksaw, so back to the same problem of levelling what remains.


----------



## sploo (21 Sep 2020)

A small centre drill (e.g. Centre Drill Bit 1/8" x 3/64") in a chuck in the toolpost should get you a hole that's sufficient to then drill the ball without the drill bit wandering.


----------



## porker (21 Sep 2020)

One technique that you may be able to use when trying to drill perpendicular to a curved surface that is used in machining, is to use something like a small engineers rule or something similar and put this between the drill and the surface of the ball you want to drill. When the rule which is pinched between the two is perpendicular to the drill centreline you know the drill is perpendicular to the surface. Using a drill like sploo references will mean it should drill without having to make a flat as they are much stiffer than ordinary twist drills.


----------



## sploo (21 Sep 2020)

porker said:


> One technique that you may be able to use when trying to drill perpendicular to a curved surface that is used in machining, is to use something like a small engineers rule or something similar and put this between the drill and the surface of the ball you want to drill. When the rule which is pinched between the two is perpendicular to the drill centreline you know the drill is perpendicular to the surface. Using a drill like sploo references will mean it should drill without having to make a flat as they are much stiffer than ordinary twist drills.


In theory, if the OP has a lathe, and a chuck that can adequately grip the ball, and the headstock and tailstock are properly aligned, then it should drill perfectly in to the centre of the ball, and perpendicular to the surface.

In theory


----------



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

porker said:


> One technique that you may be able to use when trying to drill perpendicular to a curved surface that is used in machining, is to use something like a small engineers rule or something similar and put this between the drill and the surface of the ball you want to drill. When the rule which is pinched between the two is perpendicular to the drill centreline you know the drill is perpendicular to the surface. Using a drill like sploo references will mean it should drill without having to make a flat as they are much stiffer than ordinary twist drills.


Brilliant, thank you. The forged balls are not-quite round, so I can use this to keep rotating the ball in the jaws until I find a part of the surface that is perpendicular to the incoming drill bit.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (21 Sep 2020)

sploo said:


> A small centre drill (e.g. Centre Drill Bit 1/8" x 3/64") in a chuck in the toolpost should get you a hole that's sufficient to then drill the ball without the drill bit wandering.


Thank you, I intended to start small and drill out anyway, so I might as well try one. I have ordered one from ebay.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (22 Sep 2020)

My order of forged balls arrived today. Credit to www.dciron.co.uk/ for fast and low cost. They are close to the cost in pence-per-mm, e.g. the 30mm balls are 30p, while 50mm are 80p and 25mm are 20p each. 

I ordered a range because I wasn’t sure what would look/function best. 

50/40/35/30/25/20 mm


----------



## Alpha-Dave (22 Sep 2020)

The 50 is definitely too big, 40 is a bit big, but could be an aesthetic choice.





35 and 30 look good.






25 is ok (and the same as the original ‘upset’ ends)



20 is too small.



Any opinions?


----------



## Droogs (22 Sep 2020)

to my dodgy eyes the 35 looks good


----------



## sploo (22 Sep 2020)

30 or 25 for me. Just enough to stop it dropping out is fine. Can't immediately think of a good reason to go bigger (more likely to get in the way, or just more mass when the handle slides vertically through the boss hole).


----------



## Alpha-Dave (22 Sep 2020)

sploo said:


> 30 or 25 for me. Just enough to stop it dropping out is fine. Can't immediately think of a good reason to go bigger (more likely to get in the way, or just more mass when the handle slides vertically through the boss hole).



I was wondering how much weight they would add. Doing some quick calcs:
The bar is 475g
The original 1” cylindrical ends added 74g (15%)

20mm balls add 18g (4%)
25mm balls add 41g (9%)
30mm balls add 181g (17%)
35mm balls add 142g (30%)
40mm balls add 234g (50%)
50mm balls add 500g (105%)

So the 50 and 40 are out. 30 mm are the same as the original, and 35 are just about acceptable (I will be adding a gasket/o-ring anyway).


----------



## AES (22 Sep 2020)

Blimey! IMO, you're going a bit too "far". No disrespect intended, but this is "only" a bench vice and doesn't really need to look "pretty", just be "tidy" and work well.

Like sunnybob I can't see the point of drilling and tapping the balls, but why are you worried about using a file to put a SMALL flat on the ball? Just about any file will do that job easy-peasy if the ball is held firmly in a vice.

And to drill the hole, after filing a SMALL flat, start off with a "Slocombe" (aka centre drill - VERY short and fat) using lathe, drill press, or even hand drill - whatever. Drill the hole SLIGHTLY undersize (if you've got a mix of Imperial and Metric drills, this is an ideal "bodge" method), then just hammer the ball onto the lever- If the fit is a nice interference fit it'll work like a charm, AND you don't even need to drill all the way through the ball and peen the end of the bar over like sunnybob suggested. You can even use a drop of Loctite (bearing adhesive) or ONE drop of superglue if you want to be doubly sure. But if so make sure the hole and the bar are CLEAN first (e.g. acetone). 

For an even "bodgier bodge", why not just thread the end of the bar, then use a nut (the flats of which you can round over a bit to make it look a little less "bodgy" if needs be).


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Of course you have all been on tenter hooks waiting for an update to this. I took a few photos to show progress, so here we go:
The EN16T was cut by a bandsaw, and reasonably square, so no cleaning up of the end needed:



I chucked it close to the end, and used a centre drill as a pilot as per sploo’s recommendation:



Then drilled 20 mm deep with a 4mm and 7.2 mm drills, and the tapped with taper, middle and plug:


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Then for the balls themselves. I went with 35 mm because they ‘looked right’ (tastes may vary).
Centre drilling again, but using Porker’s suggestion to put a metal ruler between the bit and the ball enabled me to find a perpendicular spot on the not-quite-round ball. 
Set up:



Not aligned:



Well aligned:


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Drilling 20 mm deep again with 4mm and 7.2 mm:



Then 5 mm deep with a 5/8 bit to create a recess:



Tapping again:



With a cut-off bolt inserted. :


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Test fit looks good:




Repeat for 2nd ball:



Both ends done:


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Then reassembly:





Putting the old handle in did flatten out some of the kink, but not being bolted down didn’t help:



I’m very pleased by how this turned out. Gratuitous shot of vice-in-a-vice (Woden 00 in the Record 112):


----------



## Inspector (25 Sep 2020)

Looks good. Did you consider putting one ball on the handle while in the lathe and sanding your balls to shine them up? Did you put some locktite on the threads to keep everything tight?

Pete


----------



## TFrench (25 Sep 2020)

Very nice. The 11-series record vices are the strongest they made and still make good (sometimes silly!) money on ebay.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

Hi Pete,

Yes, I considered it, but the rod is pretty much polished, and the forged balls have a significant texture to them, so to get it all to match would have been 30-60 min, which was too much effort because the forged texture has grown on me as it is quite tactile. 

I will loctite them one once I have cut a gasket from some neoprene to stop the clanking.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

TFrench said:


> Very nice. The 11-series record vices are the strongest they made and still make good (sometimes silly!) money on ebay.



I had heard that these were good, and this one has not disappointed me. I already have a couple of 5 and 6” vices, but this is the one I will be keeping.


----------



## sploo (25 Sep 2020)

Alpha-Dave said:


> Both ends done:
> View attachment 93028



How quick an rpm did you get the lathe to with that set up?


----------



## MusicMan (25 Sep 2020)

Very successful. 

But one important safety tip on a metalworking lathe. One of your pics shows the chuck key still in the chuck without your hand on it. Please get into the habit of never, ever, not once, doing this. Because if you forget it is there and turn the lathe on (easily done), it will eject at high speed and stands a fair chance of hitting your head, eye or some other vulnerable part of your anatomy. For a 750W motor that's like a horse kick. Darwin award territory.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

sploo said:


> How quick an rpm did you get the lathe to with that set up?


0 rpm, although I did wonder what sort of noise it would make; possibly like a propeller for a few seconds, followed by a loud bang and some crying.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (25 Sep 2020)

MusicMan said:


> Very successful.
> 
> But one important safety tip on a metalworking lathe. One of your pics shows the chuck key still in the chuck without your hand on it. Please get into the habit of never, ever, not once, doing this. Because if you forget it is there and turn the lathe on (easily done), it will eject at high speed and stands a fair chance of hitting your head, eye or some other vulnerable part of your anatomy. For a 750W motor that's like a horse kick. Darwin award territory.



Noted, thank you. I probably have a poor habit ingrained now. Making a ‘spring shroud’ for the end of the key so that it cannot be left in is probably a sensible project for an afternoon.


----------



## sploo (26 Sep 2020)

Alpha-Dave said:


> 0 rpm, although I did wonder what sort of noise it would make; possibly like a propeller for a few seconds, followed by a loud bang and some crying.


Having had a morse taper with a Jacobs chuck come loose on a lathe once I can confirm it makes quite a noise, and there was a lot of crying.


----------



## Bm101 (26 Sep 2020)

Alpha-Dave said:


> I will loctite them one once I have cut a gasket from some neoprene to stop the clanking.


Rubber o rings if you have any spare or rubber bands.


----------



## Bm101 (26 Sep 2020)

Bm101 said:


> Rubber o rings if you have any spare or rubber bands.


Nice job btw.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (26 Sep 2020)

MusicMan said:


> Very successful.
> 
> But one important safety tip on a metalworking lathe. One of your pics shows the chuck key still in the chuck without your hand on it. Please get into the habit of never, ever, not once, doing this. Because if you forget it is there and turn the lathe on (easily done), it will eject at high speed and stands a fair chance of hitting your head, eye or some other vulnerable part of your anatomy. For a 750W motor that's like a horse kick. Darwin award territory.




So to try to stop my poor habit, I have added a spring to the chuck key.
Take 1x clothes peg spring:



Un-bend one ring at a time:



Until straight-ish:



Then drill through the chuck for a m5 threaded hole all the way through, and a half-depth 3mm hole.


----------



## Alpha-Dave (26 Sep 2020)

Insert the ‘spring’ into the 3mm hole and use 2x grub screws (cut to length) to clamp it in place.

Then twist into a ‘sprung guard’ for the end of the key:

Extended:



Compressed:



I’m quite pleased for a 1-hour bodge with what was on hand, but it certainly functional not pretty.


----------



## MusicMan (26 Sep 2020)

Bravo. Glad to see that you took this seriously, and we look forward to seeing you contribute for longer!


----------



## clogs (26 Sep 2020)

never bother with a flat spot when drilling anything round.....
wastes to much time, a sharp center punch and a good eye is all you need..plus of course a decent dill vice.....
I just have to do it all day long or seems so.....hahaha...
dont make things to complicated.....
ps, I must have at least 12 centerpunches of differing sizes and styles...and 20 small'ish hammers.....
but it's what I do....


----------

