# Spindle moulder cutter question



## RogerS (13 May 2007)

Starting to make some casement windows. I'm using the No.65 traditional window cutter from Axminster and this moulds the profile and rebate at the same time. It also has a scribing cutter (No.66) and you can see it mounted here







apologies for the breakout  

So far so good. But I think that the scribing cutter actually needs a bit more added to it as when you offer the rail up to the stile like so






you can see a shoulder left behind (arrowed). I can't see an easy way to remove it.

I can bandsaw down the side of the tenon but can't work out how to cut the bottom of the groove square. Note that it also has to be a groove to accomodate the slight shoulder.

A grooving cutter for my spindle moulder perhaps? 

If the cutter had a bit extra on top then there wouldn't be a problem. Seems to me a lot of faffing about is needed.

Jason has given me an alternative approach using mitres and forgetting about scribing with the spindle moulder but I'd like to know if there is any obvious solution to my problem.

Many thanks


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## tim (13 May 2007)

Roger

I'm no expert on window making but I think that the area highlighted by your arrow should be tenoned into the rail as well and not removed. Unless I've got it totally wrong this is called 'franking'

Cheers

Tim


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

As far as i can recall the top of the scribing cutters that you are using should be cutting your tenon cheek, ie no step. In this situation you will end up with a deeper rebate which is no bad thing considering the current need for at least 20mm glazing units or 24 if not argon filled. These scribe and profile sets have quite a narow margin for adjustment and you have to make your joinery to suit them rather than the other way around Regards Andy.


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## RogerS (13 May 2007)

I take your point, Andy, but these are all-in-one cutters and do the rebate and moulding at the same time...so the bit arrowed is left after passing through the cutter.

TIm...as ever, an elegant solution that works!


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

Tell me how to include a photo in a post and i will show you an example. Regards Andy


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## RogerS (13 May 2007)

Try here,Andy


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

Hopefully this will explain it, different moulding but similar principle. Regards Andy (always keep a sample for next time).


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

The flat that you are having trouble with would ordinarily represent where your tenon should go, which is why they are 3/8 or 1/2" wide. This is OK but it leaves you with quite a narrow rebate for your glazing unit + bead.


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

The scribing set that you have also has a profile mould ground into the other end and if you rebate the timber to suit you can mould a profile to suit. I usually use 45mm timber and cut a 30wide x 15mmdeep rebate this leaves 15 mm for the moulding. Look again at my photo and subsitute the flat profile for your curved one and you'll get the idea. Sorry but it's difficult trying to explain something you haven't done for a while, clearly over the internet


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## Scrit (13 May 2007)

Roger

Part of the problem comes from working on the spindle moulder rather that a tenoner. On a tenoner there are two scribing heads, unconnected, which scribe the joints, thus:






So the adjustment is made very easily. My feeling is that the ovolo scribing cutter should have the land on the cutter so that you can reproduce this on a spindle moulder. It seems ridiculous to have to adjust the cut by making an extra pass with a rebate cutter or groover.

Scrit


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

Scrit, in this case it is only an issue because the tenon should correspond with the flat on the moulding which would make the flat irrelevant to the joint. This is another example joint and the way it should be. This has a 1/2" flat to correspond with the tenon.


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## Dan (13 May 2007)

Andy Pullen's photo's show how it should be done correctly.

It is better to machine the tenon in one pass by mounting a rebating block above the moulding cutterblock with a suitable spacer between them. This ensures that there will be no variation in the tenons.

The spelching is usually eliminated by making suitable backing pieces, but machining the tenons before running the moulding and rebate is easier and will give a better finish


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## Scrit (13 May 2007)

Dan":3o92aeta said:


> It is better to machine the tenon in one pass by mounting a rebating block above the moulding cutterblock with a suitable spacer between them. This ensures that there will be no variation in the tenons.


Agreed, but with a smaller, non-commercial spindle moulder this is rarely achievable because the spindle length is often inadequate and the spindle may not have sufficient power to spin-up two blocks without cutting out before reaching operating speed (a problem dealt with by Felderman in a thread earlier this year). Rebate block + 15mm spacer ( to allow for the cutter overghang above the top edge of the profile block) + Euro block is 50 + 10 + 40mm = 105mm spindle height.

There is, however, a major problem in using a profile block above a rebate block - that is because of the presence of the arbor and spacer rings all you are developing is a stub tenon which may not be long enough to make a secure joint, although in the case of window beading I don't see that as a problem. You're anls going to be restricted in the depth of rebates you can achieve as it will not be possible to adjust the rebarte depth with a fixed rebate block. Single end tenoners will develop the full length of tenon because the two heads have a gap between them. Similarly, within constraints, a pair of tenoning discs will do the same on a spindle moulder, the limitation there generally being the size and weight of the discs. If those options aren't open to you then using a scribing cutter in the way Roger has done, turning the work over then working with a rebate block from the other side seems to be the only viable solution, I'd say

Scrit


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## JFC (13 May 2007)

My first thoughts looking at that picture is to take a chisel to the flat on the stile allowing the tenon to drop down into the mortice . I assume the ridge is the same depth as the rebate ?
In other words rather than try and remove it from the tenon remove it from the morticed peice .


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## Andy Pullen (13 May 2007)

JFC":2vrfv0ym said:


> My first thoughts looking at that picture is to take a chisel to the flat on the stile allowing the tenon to drop down into the mortice . I assume the ridge is the same depth as the rebate ?
> In other words rather than try and remove it from the tenon remove it from the morticed peice .




That would create a haunched shoulder and would work but what if you had a hundred to do. I think a rethink on setting up needs to be done so it is done correctly the first time and so needs no finishing work. The tenon has to pass thru the raised flat for it to work. Regards Andy


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## JFC (13 May 2007)

If the ridge is out of line with the rebate then yes but it wouldn't take alot to cut it off so its level with the rebate . I don't have a sliding carriage for my spindle so i scribe hundreds of joints , it doesn't take that long .But i do know what your saying .


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## ProShop (13 May 2007)

Hi Roger,
Funnily enough I too have been making windows this weekend using the spindle moulder  .


I also have a set of the Axminster Traditional Cutters, although the term "Traditional" is a bit misleading imho, (but that's another issue  ).

Andy & Scrit have highlighted the problem your having. 
Using the Axminster cutters you mention unfortunately your forced to put the mortice as per Andy's pic, or the only other alternative as you suggest is to remove the offending shoulder with a slotting cutter although this is a bit time consuming. But at least you get to place the mortice where you want it.

The problem with most of these types of cutter is your limited to where you can place your mortice.

I noticed the tearout in your photo (Sorry  ). I can give you a top tip about this if you don't mind. When using scribe & mould cutters make the Scribe first & then do the mould, that way you have a square edge tight up to your backer/breakout board.

As to a much easier solution is to have your cutters made to your own profiles. I've found the cost isn't that much more than off the shelf ones.


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## RogerS (14 May 2007)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

In my defence, this was the first time using my spindle moulder!

My tenon position was chosen to allow a wider rebate that could accomodate dg units but I can now see that that boxed me into a bit of a corner. In the absence of groovers etc, removing the wood from the stile (containing the mortice) proved to be quite easy on the 'Rat and the corners easily removed and squared up with a chisel.

I can now also see the benefit of making your own cutters since the Axminster ones didn't create as wide a rebate as I needed and so the stock required a second pass on the router table.

The point is wellmade regarding sequencing of tasks and next time I'll mould later on in the process.

Couple of more questions...

any recommendations as to tenoning cutters for the spindle moulder (Kity 1629 with sliding table)?

maintaining consistency of scribing is proving a bit difficult but I think that this is probably more due to workholding difficulties in trying to scribe post-moulding rather than doing it before moulding.


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## Scrit (14 May 2007)

Roger

I don't think I'd have tried a tenoning job as my first spindle job.......



Roger Sinden":3rrd7kib said:


> ......any recommendations as to tenoning cutters for the spindle moulder (Kity 1629 with sliding table)?


The questions have got to be how big is the table opening and what power is the motor? With a smaller machine it is probably better to go for a rebating block which can be set-up like your Euro scribing block as this will allow a deeper cut than you'd normally get. That means making two passes, though. 

Unless you have 5HP to play with (possibly 3HP on three phase) I doubt that you have the power to start up two tenoning discs which would allow you to do the cuts in one pass. If you want to have a look for tenoning discs then get hold of the Whitehill catalogue (Note: the online catalogue is well out of date - you need to request the printed version). 200mm diameter x 30mm high discs for example will give you a tenon depth of approximately 60 to 85mm (allowing a generous 70mm for the spindle boss and spacers), but they are steel and take a hefty motor to spin up. Don't know if anyone does ally ones. The other issue is that your standard fence will not accommodate them and a tenoning hood will need to be bought _or built_.



Roger Sinden":3rrd7kib said:


> ......maintaining consistency of scribing is proving a bit difficult but I think that this is probably more due to workholding difficulties in trying to scribe post-moulding rather than doing it before moulding.


Assuming that your sliding table has a hold down are you using it? And are you using either Shaw pressure guards or a power feeder when making your moulding cuts? Also when making the moulding cuts are you running against a temporary false fence (like a zero clearance insert) to provide the workpiece with support? Small section stuff can and does flex if not adequately supported






Scrit


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## RogerS (14 May 2007)

Scrit":j59feiyh said:


> Roger
> 
> I don't think I'd have tried a tenoning job as my first spindle job.......
> 
> ...



The motor is rated at 1.5kW (16 amp supply needed). 
max tool height - 90mm
stroke - 110mm
max tool in guard - 200mm
arbor speed - 4800/6400/8700 (my block is rated at 8500)
max forward tilt - 30 deg
max rear tilt - 5 deg



> Unless you have 5HP to play with (possibly 3HP on three phase) I doubt that you have the power to start up two tenoning discs which would allow you to do the cuts in one pass. If you want to have a look for tenoning discs then get hold of the Whitehill catalogue (Note: the online catalogue is well out of date - you need to request the printed version). 200mm diameter x 30mm high discs for example will give you a tenon depth of approximately 60 to 85mm (allowing a generous 70mm for the spindle boss and spacers), but they are steel and take a hefty motor to spin up. Don't know if anyone does ally ones. The other issue is that your standard fence will not accommodate them and a tenoning hood will need to be bought _or built_.



If it is 200mm dia then the standard fence will fit.



Roger Sinden":j59feiyh said:


> ......maintaining consistency of scribing is proving a bit difficult but I think that this is probably more due to workholding difficulties in trying to scribe post-moulding rather than doing it before moulding.





> Assuming that your sliding table has a hold down are you using it?



Yes sometimes although it's not that brilliant in terms of range of adjustment vertically and also as you tighten it, it throws out of alignment the fence on the sliding table. So I use clamps.


> And are you using either Shaw pressure guards or a power feeder when making your moulding cuts?


Yes - most definitely - I use the Shaw guard. I do have a power feed but the wheels need replacing as they don't grip the wood properly and it slips.


> Also when making the moulding cuts are you running against a temporary false fence (like a zero clearance insert) to provide the workpiece with support? Small section stuff can and does flex if not adequately supported



Most definitely as I took on-board what you said in another thread! Cutting through the sacrificial fence for the first time was somewhat scary

:wink:


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## RogerS (14 May 2007)

Scrit":arapem6m said:


> ..............If you want to have a look for tenoning discs then get hold of the Whitehill catalogue (Note: the online catalogue is well out of date ..............
> Scrit



I agree, I guess 2001 is a tad out-of-date !


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## ProShop (14 May 2007)

Roger Sinden":25ha5k14 said:


> Scrit":25ha5k14 said:
> 
> 
> > ..............If you want to have a look for tenoning discs then get hold of the Whitehill catalogue (Note: the online catalogue is well out of date ..............
> ...



The new one is just a rehash of the old 2001 version, there is very little new items in it  

Oh, sorry it is a lot different......... the prices have gone up :roll:  .

p.s. don't forget to check the scribe cutter thicknesses as they vary for different blocks & applications


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## ProShop (14 May 2007)

Hi Scrit,

Whitehill now do some alloy tenon discs, as do Axminster (their Whitehills really).

Whitehill sizes from 125mm all the way to 300mm.


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## Scrit (14 May 2007)

FelderMan":3r814pl4 said:


> Whitehill now do some alloy tenon discs, as do Axminster (their Whitehills really).


Finally! I had suggest to Roger that he ring and ask - I've found thgat if Whitehill do it in a steel block they're generally happy to make the same in ally, too, which makes two 30mm high tenoning discs and spacers potentially useable on a smaller spindle.

Scrit


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

Roger , while i remember i also have a nightmare with chipout like you have shown on the top of the rebate here 





The only way i have found to limit this is to run a marking gauge down the timber before i make my cut and hogging most of the timber away on the table saw first . The latter doesn't help if doing a profile cut .
Anyone else got any tips to stop this ?


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

I think someone else mentioned it - do the scribed cuts first then mould the edges

Scrit


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

Sorry i should have moved the arrow , i mean the chipping along the rebate .


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

The only solution I know is to use a rebate block with a scriber. Even then some poor quality stick can still chip out

Scrit


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

O dear then , i have £800 worth of Iroko to rebate this week . Lets hope it does'nt turn into £1000 worth with lots of waste !


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

I've just had a look at my Omas door making set and i have two rebate cutters with scribe cutters , can anyone see a problem with me using these on thier own or do they have to be used as part of the interlocking set ?


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

The only reason for using them interlocked is the usual one of legality/safety (you knew I'd say that, though) - split they no longer form a limiter block, however, I see no reason why they won't work and the practice was once more widespread.

Scrit


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## ProShop (15 May 2007)

JFC":32truvwy said:


> Sorry i should have moved the arrow , i mean the chipping along the rebate .



Do you have a rebate block with shear cut, as that helps a lot with the tearout you mention, the only other thing I can suggest is make sure the cutters are as new sharp.

Hope this helps.


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

...or a zero clearance fence :wink:


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## ProShop (15 May 2007)

Roger,

How are the windows coming along ?.


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

Just glued up the first one....10/10 for squareness 6/10 for scribed fit of glazing bars...could do better...

The one trick I have yet to learn is how to measure/adjust the amount of scribe that you cut out of the end of the glazing bars. It's been a question of scribe a bit, offer it up, put back in the spindle moulder, reline it up, take a smidgeon more off, offer it up.....must be a quicker/smarter way.


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

Doesn't your carraige have flip stops? Once you've set-up one glazing bar, all the others in a given plane will be the same length

Scrit


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

Yeah , doesn't your carraige have flip stops :-s


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

Scrit":3oowargi said:


> Doesn't your carraige have flip stops? Once you've set-up one glazing bar, all the others in a given plane will be the same length
> 
> Scrit



Only on the extension piece as far as I can see...and so unless the glazing bars are about 4ft long ....... :?


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

JFC":31ndgfbl said:


> Yeah , doesn't your carraige have flip stops :-s


 :lol:

See, Jase, another good reason to buy a carraige.......


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

:idea: :idea: 

I went and had another look. Doh! :sign3: The flip-stop comes off the extension bit and fits onto the main guide rail....


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

I've been trying to call you to ask you if you can do that :lol:


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

Ah, so what we used to write up as an "RTFM Failure", then? :lol: 

Scrit


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

Scrit":zrn941kc said:


> Ah, so what we used to write up as an "RTFM Failure", then? :lol:
> 
> Scrit



Wot manual?


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

Roger , ive just tried the omas blocks and they have cut a perfect rebate 20mm x 15mm in Iroko ( known for it's chipping ) One thing that does bother me is they don't stop spinning when the brake kicks in . Other than that it seems to got rid of the problem .
Right i'm off to change me pants and have a stiff drink :shock:


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

JFC":m3cl6tbw said:


> One thing that does bother me is they don't stop spinning when the brake kicks in.


When T&G or tenoning disc sets are made up for spindle moulders it is common to use discs with oversize bores (40mm on 30mm and 1-1/4in arbor machines) and mount them on a high top hat adaptor, spaced out, then locked down with a C-ring at the top. That is to ensure that there's enough clamping force that the cutters won't move. If they're still spinning either they're not locked down tightly enough or your brake hasn't been adjusted to accommodate the weight of the tooling

The cutters you were using have scribers on them which would account for the cleaner cuttiing as the fibres are sheared before being hogged away.

Scrit


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## ProShop (15 May 2007)

JFC":3qn45an1 said:


> Roger One thing that does bother me is they don't stop spinning when the brake kicks in . Other than that it seems to got rid of the problem .
> Right i'm off to change me pants and have a stiff drink :shock:



JFC,

Are you saying the spindle has stopped and the disc is still spinning ?.
Be careful if it is as the spindle shaft and the cutter bore will heat up very quickly and make it extremely difficult to remove, I've seen them literally welded together in the past :shock: . As Scrit says make sure there clamped up well.


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

John...it's JFC who's spinning :wink:


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## JFC (15 May 2007)

No the spindle is spinning also . I've just been on the phone to Scrit and we think it's the brake but i will reset the whole thing in the morning and check .
Other than that i am amazed with the cut it has given , it has left a face edge of 20mm one side with no chips and a face of 0.72mm after the rebate with no chips :shock: (hammer)


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## Scrit (15 May 2007)

JFC":1h45t7y7 said:


> No the spindle is spinning also . I've just been on the phone to Scrit and we think it's the brake but i will reset the whole thing in the morning and check .


This is a general problem with many DC injection brakes. They are set-up to stop a given weight in less than the mandatory maximum time, but spindle moulders can carry widely varying cutter weights. A 78mm diam. x 40mm high ally Euro profile block weighs 400 to 500 gm, a 100mm diam. x 40mm high steel Euro profile block weighs in at 1100 to 1200 gm (sans cutters), my 170mm diam. x 40mm high vari-angle chamfer block (in ally) is a svelte 1300 gm but the 190mm diameter panel raising block I sometimes use is a hefty 2.8kg without knives. Set the machine up to brake the small ally block and it mat allow the panel raiser to spin on (less of a problem with a spindle moulder as gravity will keep the cutters on the spindle, but still a potential contact injury hazard) - go the other way and set the brake up to cope specifically with the panel raiser and it may stop so abruptly when rumnning the small block that damage might occur.......... Great system, although having said that it's not normally too much of a problem :roll: 

Scrit


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## ProShop (15 May 2007)

Roger Sinden":d87wlqlf said:


> John...it's JFC who's spinning :wink:


Sorry Roger


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## ProShop (15 May 2007)

JFC":36cxy0rr said:


> No the spindle is spinning also . I've just been on the phone to Scrit and we think it's the brake but i will reset the whole thing in the morning and check .
> Other than that i am amazed with the cut it has given , it has left a face edge of 20mm one side with no chips and a face of 0.72mm after the rebate with no chips :shock: (hammer)



Phew, thats a relief


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## Scrit (18 May 2007)

Jason

As I said I would here are the images of one of my tenoning sets. A bit cruddy, but that's what you get for workiung nasty 'orrible pine! As you can see this set is built-up on a top hat with all the spacers between the discs and locked with a C-nut (i.e. a nut which is locked using a C-spanner):







Close ups of the two scribing knife sets:











The tenon is formed between two horizontal axis cutter blocks then the scribed faces are undercut by the discs. On a spindle the whole action is performed in a single action so the cutters will blunt much quicker. Here is the underside of the set showing a spacer on top of the top hat:






But locking all the cutters onto an auxillary top hat there are less surfaces to potentially slip and cause the spinning you experienced. As your tooling is 30mm bore and the sahft of your spindle is 1in (25.4mm) you could easily adopt a similar approach. This set-up weighs about 5 to 6kg and requires around 4HP (3-phase) to spin it.

And before anyone says it this is non-limiter tooling (but they don't have to be because the machine they are used on has pneumatic clamping and automatic feed operation making it exempt from the limiter requirement). With such large discs (these are circa 300mm diameter) it is necessary to have limiter tooling and clamp down work firmly into the sliding carraige/tenoning plate if running on a spindle moulder or manual feed tenoner. Not to do so is inviting the maching to pick up the work and eject it, _tout suite_

As far as rebates go, this is about the best block I've ever used:






Four cutters all angled for a shear cut (thin disposable solid carbide), two nickers top and bottom. Runs rings round the cheaper blocks - ultra smooth cut, fast feed, no break-out at all - brilliant! About the only thing wrong with it is that it isn't recesses to run through tenons, but that would be a £30 to £35 job for the local engineers.

Scrit


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## Anonymous (28 Jun 2007)

just bought "The Woodworkers Bible" by Alf Martensson. It contains the best and most interesting stuff on spindle moulding I've seen, including making your own cutters. 
Much of it dated in terms of the regs, but how you get Martensson's versatility and also reg compliance is another question, well worth asking.
Essential reading for all spindlers.

cheers
Jacob
PS Does anyone happen to know the whereabouts of Alf M? Mrs Grimsdale also wants to know cos she used to work for him many years ago.


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## Scrit (28 Jun 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":1ilub8cg said:


> PS Does anyone happen to know the whereabouts of Alf M? Mrs Grimsdale also wants to know cos she used to work for him many years ago.


He used to run Woodstock in London, didn't he? But that was a good 20 to 25 years ago

Scrit


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## Duncan (28 Jun 2007)

Jacob,

Get a copy of the Spindle Molder Handbook by Eric Stephenson (Stobart Davis) just about the best book on Spindle Molding. even got bits in about a French Head - Good old days.

Shows you how to develop out cutters ect and how to grind them freehand just like we did when I was kid in the shop.


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## Anonymous (28 Jun 2007)

Duncan":3lyft1hb said:


> Jacob,
> 
> Get a copy of the Spindle Molder Handbook by Eric Stephenson (Stobart Davis) just about the best book on Spindle Molding. even got bits in about a French Head - Good old days.
> 
> Shows you how to develop out cutters ect and how to grind them freehand just like we did when I was kid in the shop.


Yes got it. Good book too - but he can make things seem harder than they really are. The Martensson book somehow gives a more encouraging picture and has more photos. Best to have both books.

cheers
Jacob


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## Duncan (29 Jun 2007)

Jacob,

I will have to get a copy of the The Martensson book then.

duncan


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## Scrit (3 Jul 2007)

Just out of interest I dug out my old and well-thumbed copy of Martensson's book (got the spelling right this time  ) and took a look at the section on spindle moulding. It's 14 pages long, shows lots of tooling which is unsafe and/or illegal in today's context and which can no longer be purchased (e.g. slotted collars, old-style Whitehill blocks, French cutters, square blocks, non-limiter brazed tooling, etc) and some of which (French cutters and square blocks) would even have been questionable in 1979 when the book was first published. Still, an interesting trip down memory lane......

I'd get hold of the book for other reasons, though, as it is a mine of information, especially on options for starting a workshop with just power tools, and some of the examples of workmanship by people like Martin Grierson, Hans Wegner, John Makepiece, Alan Peters and others are truly inspiriational (even if the reproduction of the photos isn't the best  ). It's just that the bits on spindle moulding and to a lesser extent other machinery is now very out of date and need to be viewed with a somewhat wary eye.

Scrit


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## Anonymous (3 Jul 2007)

Yebbut as I said


> Much of it dated in terms of the regs, but how you get Martensson's versatility and also reg compliance is another question, well worth asking.


So how can we have the amazing versatility which was available not so long ago, and stay safe?

cheers
Jacob


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## Scrit (3 Jul 2007)

Jacob

Actually, having not read the book for years I was surprised just how out of date it had become. When I started French cutters were just starting to be phased out - now whilst I like the versatility and the low cost of French cutters I was never enamoured of the poor safety record or short life of the French cutter. Some of the stuff which has gone, like the square block and slotted collars I'll shed no tears over. They were just downright dangerous in their day, and people knew they were for many years before the axe fell. 

A lot of what has happened in the last 30 years, such as improved fence designs, cutterblocks which can't throw cutters, the widespread acceptance of the power feeder, etc have been positive changes, I feel. The versatility you talk about is still there - it is possible to have a cutterblock which meets current limiter legislation whilst not requiring the making of a limiter cutter set (it's a British invention called the Armadillo block). Unfortunately this all comes at the cost of having to invest in a profile grinder (£3,000 and upwards new) and the Armadillo ring system (another £300 at least), although I can't understand why it is that nobody has managed to produce a really low-cost profile grinder for smaller workshops yet. Maybe it will happen one day.

Scrit


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## Duncan (5 Jul 2007)

Jacob

I had a look at the book, in a liabary of all places and I agree with Scrit. I grind by hand special cutters and limiters with two grinders and white grinding wheels. This takes some time and would not be economic for a working shop. 

Scrit it would be nice to get a small profile grinder - I understand vieal (not sure if i have the name correct) from canada make one but not sure of the costs.

Duncan


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## Scrit (5 Jul 2007)

The cheap grinder is called a Viel Profile Grinder and they cost about $700 (I think that's US). There are problems with them, though. They aren't especially heavy and they don't have any form of cooling, although they will do a reasonable job for one-offs I find they aren't accurate enough for serious heavy duty work. Also they won't do limiters (althouigh if you're not trade that's less of an issue). I'll post a couple of pics tomorrow if you're interested

Scrit


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