# whole wall bookshelf



## Col (7 Dec 2016)

Hi, 

Just started planning a floor to ceiling whole wall bookshelf (3.57m wide 2.27m high and approx 30cm deep).

Needs to be oak finish and will be stained medium oak.

Looking through previous shelf discussions on the forum, favoured solution would be 18/19mm oak veneered ply for the shelves. So, to keep span reasonable, would propose making four identical bookcase units each less than 900mm wide. The whole bookcase would be face framed in solid oak (hiding all the edges and scribed to walls and ceiling), all sitting on a (level) plinth taking the bottom shelf above the skirting (140mm).

For the sides of each unit, can I reduce the costs and use 18/19mm veneered mdf (or even 25mm mdf which is less than half the price of the ply)?

I have not used veneered mdf or ply before - are there any problems routing dados for the shelves - is there a risk of splintering the veneer along the sides of the cut?

The units would be backed with 4mm or 6mm oak veneered mdf to complete the 'solid' oak look.

Comments, suggestions, hints welcomed please?

Thanks, Colin


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## profchris (7 Dec 2016)

I'm looking at some of the 3,000+ (could be twice that) books which infest my house. 

I think books look lost in 30 cm shelves. To me around 20 cm (book depth plus an inch at the front) is more pleasing. 

90 cm might be a fraction wide, leading to sag. My shelves are around 75 cm. 

I'd use a single upright between sets of shelves rather than making separate units which will give you double thickness of upright between each bay. 

But these are all aesthetic decisions (except the sag), build what you'd like to live with. 

Veneer tends to splinter on me, but scribing through it with a scalpel before cutting fixes that.


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## custard (7 Dec 2016)

18mm ply is touch bendy for serious bookshelves because half the thickness is actually cross grain (okay it still serves as a torsion box separator, but it's not as rigid as solid). Use the "Sagulator" to figure out deflections, 

http://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/

3mm of sag per metre is the absolute max in my book (ho, ho, ho), and I'd prefer half that or even a bit less. I used 25mm MDF shelves for this build, but with really wide hardwood lippings front _and_ back to withstand the loads, I based the calculations on the sagulator and it worked out exactly as planned,







Good luck!


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## Col (8 Dec 2016)

profchris":1xsbahf7 said:


> I'm looking at some of the 3,000+ (could be twice that) books which infest my house.
> 
> I think books look lost in 30 cm shelves. To me around 20 cm (book depth plus an inch at the front) is more pleasing.
> 
> ...



Profchris - thanks for the comments. Agree on shelf depth. Looking at an exisiting freestanding bookcase I will go for 23cm shelf depth, with slightly larger on the bottom by making the plinth deeper than the face frame (for the bigger books). Will also revisit shelf thickness - more on that later.

To avoid splintering veneer, would you trust using plain mdf for the verticals and glueing on 6mm veneered mdf between the shelves (i.e forming the dado between two pieces of glued mdf)?

Colin


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## AJB Temple (8 Dec 2016)

Be careful with shelf depth. Whilst I agree with prof Chris, I too am a book obsessive and a lot of art, cookery etc books are big enough to require a 30cm shelf depth. I built a whole wall bookcase a bit larger than yours and the central section has 30cm deep shelves. All of the shelves are made of 18mm oak veneered ply - but mainly because that is what I had to hand. My maximum span is the central section and is 90cm. If I were building it again (which i will be as we are remodelling current house) I would go 25mm as Custard suggests but I would prefer not to use MDF. Books are heavy!


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## AJB Temple (8 Dec 2016)

PS, you will not have a problem with break out when you route dados as long as you use a good quality sharp cutter and as suggested above, scribe first to be on the safe side.


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## Adam9453 (8 Dec 2016)

With a nice sharp cutter I didn't have any issues with splintering with oak veneered MDF.
I would do as custard suggests and put a decent size solid oak edging on the front and back.
Alternatively you could route a groove in the underside of the shelfs and glue in metal angle which will give your shelfs significantly better strength to resist the sagging.
I think I would be inclined to put a thick solid back in so you can put a dado across the back panels to provide support across the full width at the back (you could omit the solid oak edging on the back then).
I would strongly recommend weighing the amount of books you plan to put on a shelf and using the sagulator to calculate whats required.
If you're in any doubt then just make up a test shelf, load it up and measure the deflection (sag), then you can apply measures to strengthen it until it the deflection is reduced to an acceptable level.
Be interesting to see the pictures once you're finished.


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## RobinBHM (8 Dec 2016)

I personally think shelving units divided up into narrower sections are more attractive and are easier to use since part filled shelves dont end up with books tipping over.

Breakfronted designs work well for different depths books options.


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## Col (8 Dec 2016)

custard":3hogx9m8 said:


> 18mm ply is touch bendy for serious bookshelves because half the thickness is actually cross grain (okay it still serves as a torsion box separator, but it's not as rigid as solid). Use the "Sagulator" to figure out deflections,



thanks Custard - 
Great looking bookcase - like the idea of a central feature - maybe just slightly deeper shelving (don't want cupboards - need all the book space possible!). I think I would like a single central unit (as oppose to double) so I would make the the units wider so I only had three and then had a shelf span close to 1.2m. A little bit concerned that 1.2m might look too wide?
Played with the sagulator and 26mm MDF and costs of lipping front and back. 
For a little extra cost (in the scheme of things) I could use solid staved oak work top (27mm thick) for the shelving - sagulator doesn't have a category for this but i assume it wouldn't be much worse than solid? 

I would actually prefer to work with solid (albeit laminated) oak and I would be much more likely to make use of any offcuts in future projects.

Colin


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## Col (8 Dec 2016)

AJB Temple":2zi54krn said:


> Be careful with shelf depth. Whilst I agree with prof Chris, I too am a book obsessive and a lot of art, cookery etc books are big enough to require a 30cm shelf depth. I built a whole wall bookcase a bit larger than yours and the central section has 30cm deep shelves. All of the shelves are made of 18mm oak veneered ply - but mainly because that is what I had to hand. My maximum span is the central section and is 90cm. If I were building it again (which i will be as we are remodelling current house) I would go 25mm as Custard suggests but I would prefer not to use MDF. Books are heavy!



thanks - I now have an updated design - see reply to Custard. Basically, 3 units, central unit a feature and deeper than the side units. Using 27mm solid oak(staved) worktop for the shelves over a 1.2m span. 
Do you think that would work? ... Colin


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## Col (8 Dec 2016)

RobinBHM":2axl5glh said:


> I personally think shelving units divided up into narrower sections are more attractive and are easier to use since part filled shelves dont end up with books tipping over.
> 
> Breakfronted designs work well for different depths books options.



Robin - I sort of agree - hence the concern with my updated design having only 3 sections across the span. What would be your ideal suggested width for each section? 

Colin


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## Adam9453 (8 Dec 2016)

I'd say break it up into 600mm spans and that will relieve a lot of stress in the design, plus look more balanced in my opinion.


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## mooed (8 Dec 2016)

RobinBHM":sa4ryw9k said:


> I personally think shelving units divided up into narrower sections are more attractive and are easier to use since part filled shelves dont end up with books tipping over.



But with part filled shelves you then get to make some book ends, or have some spare space to keep tools


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## Col (15 Dec 2016)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback - have now decided on the overall design and materials

It's going to be a 5 bay bookcase, each bay having 7 shelves, with 2 bays on each side having 23cm deep shelves and the central bay with 30 cm deep shelves. Each bay is about 70cm wide keeping spans reasonably small.

Given the bookcase is to have an oak finish and solid oak trim, I looked at veneer for the carcass but decided I would prefer to work in solid wood. I would also say i'm less than careful at times and any knocks etc would be hard to disguise in a thin veneer - solid wood is so much more forgiving (especially since I will be matching older oak furniture in the room and a few knocks are just extra character!

So having chosen solid oak, started looking at the cost and decided there's got to be a cheaper way. 

Went to the local reclamation yard and rummaged through their pile of solid oak, laminated oak, ... flooring and picked out a couple of pieces to experiment with. Denailed, trimmed, planed and jointed to give the required width they came up really well (followed the post from Ross to finish the oak: which-stain-to-use-on-oak-t21466.html ). The final thickness of the board ended up at 20mm which is plenty for the 700mm span.

This shows the an offcut from the sanded board ready for finishing next to the almost finished board (but close enough to what I'm trying to achieve): 





Just been back to the yard and spent over an hour sorting through the oak flooring woodpile (disturbing the odd rat) and have found enough boards to make everything bar the verticals for the bookshelves for less than the cost of two sheets of 18mm oak veneered birch ply! Just need to source the verticals (which I may have to get new since I want them to be 25-27mm thick).


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## profchris (15 Dec 2016)

Like your thinking, both on the design and the materials. Those are the kind of shelves I'd want. 

Is 27 mm for the uprights structurally necessary, or for the look of the thing? If the latter, could you use the 20mm stuff for uprights and run a wider moulding down the front of each upright? Or would that be too fussy? I make ukuleles, not furniture, so haven't any feel for what works and doesn't.


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## Col (15 Dec 2016)

profchris":3jdts3eh said:


> Like your thinking, both on the design and the materials. Those are the kind of shelves I'd want.
> 
> Is 27 mm for the uprights structurally necessary, or for the look of the thing? If the latter, could you use the 20mm stuff for uprights and run a wider moulding down the front of each upright? Or would that be too fussy? I make ukuleles, not furniture, so haven't any feel for what works and doesn't.



Not having made anything like this before, my thoughts were along the lines that if I was making the units as 5 separate carcasses then 20mm (or even 18mm) would be fine for the uprights - but they would then be doubled up where each unit abutted. I plan to have the shelves at the same levels with (blind) dados across all the units and was concerned that cutting into the vertical from both sides for the shelves would need more 'meat' than just 20mm. So it is a structural concern but I don't have the knowledge to say whether it's necessary. 
I am planning for face framing around the edges - but still an open design question whether all the verticals will have a face moulding (they would have done if I had been using veneered mdf/ply for the carcassing).


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## Col (18 Dec 2016)

Another design change. Having measured up my job lot of old flooring to see what useable lengths, widths I can recover from them gave me a small problem.
There are random lengths (700-2400mm) with widths ranging from 115mm to 185mm. I want to use full length staves for each of the bookshelves, and if every unit was 700mm wide then i end up with lots of offcuts up to 700mm in length (so much so that I possibly wouldn't have enough timber and I don't want to take that risk!).

So I needed an alternative that would better use the random lengths.

Easiest solution I could find is instead of having five units 700mm wide, was to have units of different widths. So, in order, plan to have 500, 900, 700, 800, 600mm . This would keep the 700mm wide deeper unit in the centre. 

This gives me significantly better usage of the random lengths - leaving a bit of contingency.

Might look a bit strange with the different widths , or being positive , it would look much more interesting!


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## MattRoberts (18 Dec 2016)

It might look strange indeed. What about going for a symmetrical 500, 800, 700, 800, 500?

Or 5, 6, 7, 8, 900?


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## Adam9453 (18 Dec 2016)

What about 500,700,900,700,500.
I agree with Matt, it should be symmetrical


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## Col (18 Dec 2016)

Adam9453":rp6qc9cy said:


> What about 500,700,900,700,500.
> I agree with Matt, it should be symmetrical



Matt, Adam,
I will look at symmetrical again. I want the deeper unit in the centre, and did try all widths 600-1000mm in the centre with various (symmetrical) combinations either side and the 'best' use of the lengths I have was with all the shelf units different widths! I'll just have to put up with a bit of wastage.

Thanks

OK - played around again with the combinations and I can settle on 600,800,700,800,600 with a little more wastage and still a bit of contingency for me to work with.


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## Col (1 Mar 2017)

Been quiet on this for a while so thought I'd provide an update.

Couldn't find a cheap source of oak for the verticals so ended up going to a local mill and paid the going rate for some narrow 25mm (finished thickness) boards which I have now jointed in threes to give the depths that I wanted.

Have now also prepared, jointed and roughly cut all the old flooring (for the shelves and trims). Based on the sizes I have managed to recover from the old oak boards I am now able to draw up the plans for the bookcase in detail.

The oak is now stacked indoors acclimatising. It was originally all kiln dried - how long should I leave it before cutting to final sizes please?







Order of assembly is going to be interesting. The shelves are set behind the front edge of the verticals by a couple of cms and so I was planning to use blind dados. The shelves are also vertically aligned so can only get a hidden fixing in from one side. Needs to be assembled in situ and even one section will need assistance to move carefully into place.
Current thoughts are to build a two jigs that will each support a complete set of shelves. Starting at one end, using one of the jigs, assemble a vertical and a set of shelves(screwed and glued) and fit into place on the base. Using the second jig assemble the next vertical and set of shelves(screwed and glued), bring the two sections together, glue and temporarily clamp (but can only clamp at front edge). Repeat for remaining sections, ideally try to complete whole assembly in one shot so I can take advantage of the bookcase being between two masonry walls and wedge the frame at each shelf level to hold the glue joints tight along their full length. I'll need a glue with a very long open time!

Other suggestions welcome ...


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Mar 2017)

Make sure your shelves are high enough - it is irritating in the extreme to find you've dozens of books 10mm too high for a shelf. I found on mine that on the higher shelves with smaller books on them it worked well and looked much tidier to run off cuts of 18mm ply or MDF 55mm or 75mm wide along the back of the shelf, so the books are pushed in a line towards the front.


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## Col (1 Mar 2017)

Phil - that's one of the reasons for making this. Fed up with having odd size books lying around - I've measured all our oversize books - especially old photo albums and the bottom shelf is going to be more than adequate. I have also varied the height and depths of shelves as they get nearer the top, planning for the smaller books at the top as you suggest. Thanks ... Colin



phil.p":1qaev2jo said:


> Make sure your shelves are high enough - it is irritating in the extreme to find you've dozens of books 10mm too high for a shelf. I found on mine that on the higher shelves with smaller books on them it worked well and looked much tidier to run off cuts of 18mm ply or MDF 55mm or 75mm wide along the back of the shelf, so the books are pushed in a line towards the front.


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## AndyT (1 Mar 2017)

Interesting project. I like your use of reclaimed proper oak and your planning.

I'd just like to say that assembly is a non-trivial part of a project like this.

You may be thinking that you don't need a system of adjustable supports - after all, nobody adjusts their shelves once they are full and you have planned around real sizes of books.

But a system where each module is an empty box where loose shelves can be inserted makes assembly much less stressful. Getting half a dozen shelves glued into housings all at the same time is hard, even with an assistant.

Choices for supports include

Tonks strip, surface or flush mounted;
Metal pegs in holes, visible or hidden in recesses under the shelves;
Bespoke wooden pegs in holes;
Concealed "magic wires;"
Sawtooth strips with matching battens.

Some of these options can be very unobtrusive, especially if you only drill the uprights in your chosen positions.


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## Col (1 Mar 2017)

Hi Andy,

Thinking about construction and trying to fix 8 shelves I'm beginning to realise that some loose shelves might be a lot easier, especially since a vertical plus its shelves, plus a jig exceed my comfortable lifting ability! Actually only 7 are shelves but it was easier to design the verticals to overrun into the void above the bookcase and use shorter lengths of reclaimed boards for the top (I was picking from scraps) - with the additional benefit that the overrun of the verticals provides extra fixing support for any trim/moulding that I use at the top.

The verticals will sit on the base (doweled in some way to prevent any lateral movement, and covering some butt joints in a couple of places). In addition to the fixed top, I still think I would need a couple of fixed shelves (one closest to the bottom and one in the middle to stabilise each module. So i'm going to need a jig anyway - hmm. On the aesthetics , I certainly prefer all the shelves to be aligned(but as you say I can achieve this with initial positioning). 

The oak will be finished to have a vintage look, matching other pieces of furniture. I currently hadn't planned to have a wider face strip on the front edge of the verticals, and that would definitely be needed to hide sawtooth strips , and actually is also used to reduce the visibility of the front row of metal/wood pegs and holes (which I wouldn't want to see). I would be concerned about the strength of the shelving with magic wires (although they cannot be seen and work with the design). So I'm probably not yet convinced about floating shelves - purely based on appearance rather common sense.

I have a few days to make a final decision whilst the oak decides to change shape slightly and make it even more fun.

Thanks, Colin



AndyT":1fy2uzgu said:


> But a system where each module is an empty box where loose shelves can be inserted makes assembly much less stressful. Getting half a dozen shelves glued into housings all at the same time is hard, even with an assistant.
> 
> Choices for supports include
> 
> ...


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## custard (1 Mar 2017)

Andy makes a good point, assembly and glue up really are serious undertakings with a project of this size. Think about Cascamite rather than PVA as that'll give you twenty minutes of open time, and adjusting the cramps to get everything square takes time. You absolutely need a dry glue up first, and use that to double check that the cramps are set up correctly and won't interfere when you come to measure diagonals for square and check for wind. 

Personal view, but avoid tonk strip. If it came in decent finishes it might be okay, but tonk strip always seems to be either Austin Allegro brown or Hillman Avenger bronze.

Your Oak won't take long to settle, you'll see after a day or two if it's going to behave itself or not.


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## Col (1 Mar 2017)

Custard - I hadn't really thought about squareness when dry assembling. What I can do is dry assemble in situ and precut wedges (for between the frame and the masonry wall at each shelf level) so that they that hold the whole structure square (and take out any wind). Reassembling with the wedges back in the right place should then guarantee the end result since the walls won't move! Cascamite seems like a good bet for giving me a longer assembly time. 

I had already ruled out tonk strips since they wouldn't fit with the look I'm trying to achieve (even in a decent finish) - they remind me of 70's student shelving.

Thanks, Colin


custard":e7j3hmlg said:


> Andy makes a good point, assembly and glue up really are serious undertakings with a project of this size. Think about Cascamite rather than PVA as that'll give you twenty minutes of open time, and adjusting the cramps to get everything square takes time. You absolutely need a dry glue up first, and use that to double check that the cramps are set up correctly and won't interfere when you come to measure diagonals for square and check for wind.
> 
> Personal view, but avoid tonk strip. If it came in decent finishes it might be okay, but tonk strip always seems to be either Austin Allegro brown or Hillman Avenger bronze.
> 
> Your Oak won't take long to settle, you'll see after a day or two if it's going to behave itself or not.


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## Eric The Viking (2 Mar 2017)

I too have mixed feelings about Tonk strip. 

We have a beatiful pair of alcove bookcases, built by an old friend: It wasn't ideal to have just two per alcove, but the room didn't leave us much choice. The shelves are 800mm wide and roughly 275 deep. That's too weak for the veneered chipboard shelves, and crucially it's too wide for the Tonk strip. 

I had one of the support plates fail, at the point where it was bent to lock into the Tonk strip, depositing half a set of Brittanicas onto the ground from about five feet up. This did them no favours, but thankfully they (and the shelf!) missed the china on top of the cupboard below!

OK we overloaded our shelves (Britannicas were printed on India paper, so very dense and big), but even so, the Tonk strip system is rather fragile. To add insult, etc., if you think about the way it's fixed in, you are creating vertical strips of weakness where it's fitted, and transferring a lot of force sideways onto screws that cannot be very deeply fixed. 

In retrospect, I think one of the various peg systems would have been a far better choice. In our last place, we had a kitchen bookshelf, made by another woodworker friend, which had simple "banjo" supports (with brass ferrules fitted into the carcase, IIRC), and they were excellent -- cookery books tend to be big, and heavy in groups.

If I ever get time, I'll revisit our bookcase shelves too, and remake them with thick lippings, front and back, as Custard suggests. They sag, and it does spoil the look.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Mar 2017)

If I have a long glue up (especially in the summer) whether using cascamite or PVA I mist all the parts with water in a garden sprayer. This stops the moisture being pulled out of the glue quite so quickly and gives you an extra few minutes. It's a good thing to do when using PU as well, as PU reacts with water.


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## AndyT (2 Mar 2017)

Here two examples. This is Billy, Ikea's best selling bookcase range. The edge veneering isn't great, but that won't be a problem with solid oak. 






The nice feature is the way that the supporting pin is hidden in the thickness of the shelf, which also locks it in place so it can't be pulled forward.






And this is a bookcase I built - hand-tooled-bookcase-in-ash-t51016.html 




[/url]

When you use pegs with flat tabs, and don't have lines of empty holes, the fittings almost disappear. (I've seen some designed to be let into the bottom of the shelf, which came with metal sockets, and would be good for Eric's encyclopedias.)

As for Tonks strip, I'm pretty sure that's what the fine Edwardian shelves have in Bristol Central Library. They must be a heavier duty grade - they have lasted very well.


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## Eric The Viking (2 Mar 2017)

I know the bookcases of which you speak: I love the reference library - I used to escape there to study as a student (no small children there!). I think they are heavier grade - googling Tonk shows several variants. The weakest part, by far, is the clips themselves though, followed by the strip's fixings. 

Pegs are far better, I am convinced.


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## Col (2 Mar 2017)

Hidden pegs would be my preferred option, but the underside of some shelves would still be visible. It's a room that we will mainly be sitting in so actually quite a few undersides will be seen. So, searching for something that looked good (unfortunately this one's too expensive) I assume that something like the last support on this page : http://optimumbrasses.co.uk/product-cat ... -supports/, recessed into the end/underside of the shelves would still take a good weight? I assume I'd have to also find some matching metal sockets.

A compromise would be to fix the bottom two shelves (where the heaviest books would be). Together with the fixed top that would then give me a cubicle 1360mm high (between 25mm thick verticals). Would that be rigid enough for the rest of the shelves to be floating with that sort of support (shelf thickness 20mm, (shelf depths vary from 23cm to 33cm and spans from 575mm to 770mm)

Thanks, Colin



AndyT":236s8vqb said:


> ...
> When you use pegs with flat tabs, and don't have lines of empty holes, the fittings almost disappear. (I've seen some designed to be let into the bottom of the shelf, which came with metal sockets, and would be good for Eric's encyclopedias.)
> 
> ...


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## John Brown (2 Mar 2017)

Have you considered getting a Kindle?


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## Jacob (2 Mar 2017)

8 and a few at 10" deep, and about 850mm wide is roughly what I've got on some bookshelves in use for 100 years or so (belonged to grandparents).
They are all pine - ordinary redwood at a guess, and 15mm thick. 
The 10" ones show slight sag but you'd hardly notice and they are heavily loaded - encyclopaedias etc. 
The 8" show no obvious sag but they are reversible - they sit on 1/2" dowels loose in holes (2 at each end). Turn them over every 25 years or so? 
The holes are drilled at intervals so shelf height is adjustable too - no need to buy expensive fittings.
Highly effective, cheap reliable materials, I wouldn't do them any other way!


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## Col (2 Mar 2017)

Andy, Eric - I stand corrected on Tonks strips. I found Library Case construction in George Ellis's Modern Practical Joinery (1900s) and "Tonk's fittings" is the first described method of fixing the shelves. As you say they don't make them like they used to!



Eric The Viking":1k7471e4 said:


> I know the bookcases of which you speak: I love the reference library - I used to escape there to study as a student (no small children there!). I think they are heavier grade - googling Tonk shows several variants. The weakest part, by far, is the clips themselves though, followed by the strip's fixings.
> 
> Pegs are far better, I am convinced.





AndyT":1k7471e4 said:


> ...
> 
> As for Tonks strip, I'm pretty sure that's what the fine Edwardian shelves have in Bristol Central Library. They must be a heavier duty grade - they have lasted very well.


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## Col (2 Mar 2017)

John Brown":4jujtt1a said:


> Have you considered getting a Kindle?



SWMBO (who commissioned the bookcase) already has a Kindle so it hasn't helped :-(


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## Jacob (2 Mar 2017)

As well as simple dowels in holes there various other DIY all wood shelf adjustment fittings - e.g. the "saw tooth" planted-on laths. 

This sort of thing though this example is a bit crude, they can be more delicate e.g thinner lath say 6mm hardwood with more but smaller teeth.


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## AndyT (2 Mar 2017)

Col, I followed your link to Optimum Brasses. They seem to cost £4.16 EACH!

There are some more down to earth options here

shelf-pins-t70779.html


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## Col (3 Mar 2017)

Jacob - I would probably have seriously considered this if I had faces/pilasters on the verticals (already have a small freestanding bookcase with these supports) but with six verticals, i feel it would look too busy/heavy to have faces/pilasters on all. Thanks, Colin



Jacob":2xjdop42 said:


> As well as simple dowels in holes there various other DIY all wood shelf adjustment fittings - e.g. the "saw tooth" planted-on laths.
> 
> This sort of thing though this example is a bit crude, they can be more delicate e.g thinner lath say 6mm hardwood with more but smaller teeth.


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2017)

AndyT":387iyg3r said:


> Col, I followed your link to Optimum Brasses. They seem to cost £4.16 EACH!
> 
> There are some more down to earth options here
> 
> shelf-pins-t70779.html


If you are going to drill for the pins you might as well drill a bot wider for a dowel and then you don't need to buy the pins.
A pair of plain dowels in a hole are all you need - though this can be refined in various ways


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## Col (3 Mar 2017)

Andy - I did say they were too expensive - given I would need up to 100 (depending on fixed versus floating) I would be looking for packs of 50 at that price! The old thread on pins was useful - thanks ... Colin



AndyT":1bq5dfic said:


> Col, I followed your link to Optimum Brasses. They seem to cost £4.16 EACH!
> 
> ...


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## Col (3 Mar 2017)

Thanks to everyone for your responses - it's been really helpful challenging my original design for all fixed shelving.

I'm now convinced to float as many shelves as possible. I would still have follow the assembly process I outlined in an earlier post since the top is constructed just like a shelf and I cannot hidden screw and glue from both ends.

This now raises the question of module size. The verticals sit on the base and will be held in place with two dowels. If I then just fixed the top, I would have modules 2100mm high. Will it be rigid enough - the verticals are 25mm oak? I can brace the side verticals against the masonry wall, and when all the shelves are in all the modules it should be fine. However, if I completely unloaded one of the modules and removed all the shelves, I would want to be confident that there wouldn't be any movement that would cause any of the other fully loaded shelves to collapse. Would I need to also fix a shelf in the middle to get the required rigidity?

P.S. should have said there will not be any backs to the modules. With the assembly process, the modules cannot be finally squared until they are in position and by then it's not feasible to properly fix a back.

Colin


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## AndyT (3 Mar 2017)

You said in your original post that you would be fitting backs. Even a thin back makes a huge difference to the rigidity of a big box frame, so I think you will be fine. However, a central fixed shelf is good, if your design can accommodate it. It's a design compromise used on reasonable commercial modular shelving such as Ikea's Billy. It has the extra benefit that it stops the possibility of the uprights bowing outwards so the shelves fall off their supports. (That's an effect found on thin chipboard shelves though - oak will be better. )

I would go for fixed central shelves, but that's partly because I know I'd probably end up with a double layer of books if the shelves were deep enough!


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## Col (3 Mar 2017)

Andy - because of the method of assembly I cannot see an easy way to include backs. However, I had thought of adding some backing in from the front at a later date if we wanted but wouldn't trust it to be structural. ... Colin



AndyT":3vrwa9gx said:


> You said in your original post that you would be fitting backs. Even a thin back makes a huge difference to the rigidity of a big box frame, so I think you will be fine. However, a central fixed shelf is good, if your design can accommodate it. It's a design compromise used on reasonable commercial modular shelving such as Ikea's Billy. It has the extra benefit that it stops the possibility of the uprights bowing outwards so the shelves fall off their supports. (That's an effect found on thin chipboard shelves though - oak will be better. )
> 
> I would go for fixed central shelves, but that's partly because I know I'd probably end up with a double layer of books if the shelves were deep enough!


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## Col (4 Mar 2017)

Backing for the shelves has now been added back into the design.

My concerns about rigidity and Andy's comment that even a thin back will help, together with laying out the base and discovering how 'unflat' the back wall is - up to 1cm gap off the best straight line. It would look very messy if the shelves didn't have a back and I don't want to start scribing everything to fit the back wall so have thought about alternative assembly methods that will allow me to have a 6mm backboard to the shelves.

I haven't decided yet whether I will have just one fixed shelf (the bottom one) or none. If I find any twist in the verticals when I come to assembly then I will add a fixed shelf since the way I'm planning to sit the bottom of the verticals on dowels in the base may not be strong enough to correct it. The top is fixed to the verticals which extend into the void above the bookcase so confident of the fixing at this end.

New final assembly process (assumes the bottom shelf isn't fixed but easy to add in if necessary):

Start with the central module and fully assemble glue and screw the top from both sides, square and fit backboard. With assistance, lift and sit the verticals onto dowels in the base. Fix to wall in the void above top (not visible).

For the next module, dry screw the top into the next vertical. Fix the backing just along the new vertical edge (leave the top floating). Bring the side and top into position (again sitting the vertical on dowels in the base), clamp the top into position and adjust for square. Mark the exact position of the top on the backboard. Unclamp and remove from base, glue and screw the top edge, align the marks and fix top edge of back board. Lift the vertical into place on the base dowels, glue and clamp the other end of the top to the already assembled structure, and also glue the remaining vertical edge of the back board to the back of the previously assembled vertical (I see this as a tricky bit , not getting glue everywhere, might have to put some wedges in place first if the wall isn't flat along the glue line, ... unfortunately I cannot think of a better way of fixing this edge of the backboard to an already in-place and assembled module.). 

The remaining modules just repeat this process. 

Another major benefit is that there's no need to get the whole bookcase assembled in one big glue-up.


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## Col (6 Mar 2017)

construction has finally started!

The base is now assembled. The plinth underneath is just B&Q CLS (took a while to pick the straight ones - must have been less than 1 in 10 of them). The plinth needed to be constructed to give me a good straight edge along the front since the oak base is three separate pieces and needed something to hold the front edge aligned. 
Dominos hold the front edge in place on the plinth and the butt joints will be hidden by the verticals. Holes have been drilled for dominos to align the verticals. Quite a lot of set-up time to ensure that all the verticals will sit parallel with each other and perpendicular to the front edge.

I was planning (after a complete dry assembly) to dismantle and glue the base dominos. However, i'm now not sure there's any need. Won't the weight of the bookcase just hold it all together? 







Colin


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## AndyT (6 Mar 2017)

I think it would be sensible not to glue where gravity is all you need. It might not be you, but one day, somebody is going to want to dismantle and remove your work. I know that sounds harsh when you are putting all this graft in, but it's sadly true! ;-)


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## Col (6 Mar 2017)

Andy - I've already been acclimatised to that view. SWMBO wanted me to build it on top of the carpet and underlay just in case ... fortunately I was able to justify why that was not practical 



AndyT":247d7if9 said:


> I think it would be sensible not to glue where gravity is all you need. It might not be you, but one day, somebody is going to want to dismantle and remove your work. I know that sounds harsh when you are putting all this graft in, but it's sadly true! ;-)


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## Col (9 Mar 2017)

Central module now dry assembled (not doing the backing yet - trying to make life easier!).






Only two mistakes so far:

Since I had the void above the bookcase, I decided not to use a blind dado for the top (it's not load beariing), but instead to fix a block to the uprights (in the void) to give the exact position of the top, and fix a block to the upper side of the top to be able to screw and glue the module square (which I can repeat on all modules).

This showed up a silly mistake. After jointing I had done a first pass sanding the uprights - particularly along the joints. To be expected, I didn't leave a dead flat surface so now have best part of a mm gap at the butt joint of the top to the sides. Fortunately I need to lose a mm at the top so should be able to scribe to fit and square up at the same time. A flat surface and a straight cut would have been preferred  Good news is that I had noticed the uneveness fairly early on during the jointing and switched to hand planing for this first pass.

The other mistake is due to designing on the fly without drawings and is just a correction to hidden structure. I made the blocks fixed to the central deeper module uprights the full depth of the upright on both sides. It actually needs to match the shallower shelf depth on the outer sides of the module. An easy correction when I dismantle.

Apart from these , also having great fun with the non-flat, non-vertical plastered walls (which hadn't concerned me for the last 20+ years) but now are a pain in the ....

Colin


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## Col (12 Mar 2017)

The bookcase frame is now coming together, still dry assembling, and the smaller back panels are loose (having been just been slid into place from the widest module).

I have a slight (2mm) bow on two of the uprights which I'm hoping to be able to correct when the back panels are fixed (otherwise its a row of fixed shelves in the middle).


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## Col (24 Mar 2017)

Started final assembly with the central module. Fairly straightforward construction in the garage including backing - but a heavy lift into position :-( 

The next modules would all be inverted 'L' shapes with the backing tacked on top and one side and then slid into position behind an existing vertical. This showed up the next problem. Since the walls were uneven, the free side of the backing was not held neatly in position so I had to glue thin pieces of scrap to the back of the backing of the central module to provide a guide and 'groove' into which to insert the free side of the backing from the next module:






This worked (with a few problems making sure wedges that held the glued strips in place didn't also make the groove narrower than the backing that needed to be slid in).
All modules assembled:





Next stage staining.

As an aside, a few years ago , this mini 'crow-bar' came free with something (can't remember what) but I wondered at the time what was it's use. Now I know. It was perfect for removing, undamaged, the backing that I had tacked incorrectly on one of the modules


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## Westwood (3 Apr 2017)

Following this with great interest as my next three projects at home are shelves along one long side of a living room; shelves across one wall of a study and clothes storing shelves to line two sides of a dressing room.
And I'm very much a newbie here so please be gentle. Was thinking of using 20mm mdf - sorry - but with solid ash lippings of a good size say 25mm or is it possible and practical to buy natural ash in 300mm widths for uprights ?


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## Col (5 Apr 2017)

Progress has been slow. It's been a repeated case of a few steps forward and then one back!

Latest problem is due to using old oak floorboards from the reclamation yard. One long board, which was used in the lamination of several shelves (lots of character!) has started to crack. I have managed to get some glue into it before staining and hope it holds - otherwise I'll be making more shelves. Unfortunately someone cleared out the local yard of the boards I was using so will need to find another source.






Several more stages to go on finishing - I'm following this recommendation here from Ross for an arts & crafts type finish ... which-stain-to-use-on-oak-t21466.html

Colin


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## AndyT (5 Apr 2017)

That's looking good! I like the break-front. A feature not available in Ikea, AFAIK.


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## DTR (5 Apr 2017)

Watching with interest! I do like a bookshelf; the bigger the better......


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## Col (5 Apr 2017)

AndyT":2ln8sncu said:


> That's looking good! I like the break-front. A feature not available in Ikea, AFAIK.



I'm not sure that being likened to upgraded Ikea furniture was a design goal :-(


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## Col (5 Apr 2017)

DTR":3dyn1die said:


> Watching with interest! I do like a bookshelf; the bigger the better......



The real question is going to be whether it is big enough!


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## Col (5 Apr 2017)

Westwood":3bnl6520 said:


> Following this with great interest as my next three projects at home are shelves along one long side of a living room; shelves across one wall of a study and clothes storing shelves to line two sides of a dressing room.
> And I'm very much a newbie here so please be gentle. Was thinking of using 20mm mdf - sorry - but with solid ash lippings of a good size say 25mm or is it possible and practical to buy natural ash in 300mm widths for uprights ?



Having investigated various widths of oak for this bookcase, solid wood gets very expensive as the width increases. I ended up laminating three narrower boards to give me the width I needed. The main reasons I went for solid wood was to match other furniture in the room and, especially when going for the more rustic look, solid wood is much more forgiving (of mistakes, knocks, etc).


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## AndyT (5 Apr 2017)

Col":1z8ibpv6 said:


> AndyT":1z8ibpv6 said:
> 
> 
> > That's looking good! I like the break-front. A feature not available in Ikea, AFAIK.
> ...



Just to clarify - I meant that one of the advantages of making your own shelving is that you can include design features not available in a mass-produced product. I wasn't comparing or disparaging the quality of your work.


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## cowfoot (9 Apr 2017)

A bloke I worked with fitting a kitchen a while back staggered some Ikea Billy bookcases, wrapped a bit of crown moulding round the top and charged a fair bit of money for his "breakfront" design...back in the day I'd have stippled a decorative effect all over it and made a few extra quid too (damn you Farrow & Ball and your tasteful flat colours!).
Anyway, nice WIP, keep it up and good luck!


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## Col (9 Apr 2017)

Nearly there. A bit more finishing to go ...







Very pleased with the way the finish goes with our other furniture in the room. 
There's a very large area to finish, and one problem I did have early on was trying to do too much in one go, rather than finishing a layer on a smaller section at a time.


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## Col (11 Apr 2017)

Now complete and loaded with room for expansion (though a couple of metres of books did go to the charity shop as well!)






Next project a single bed base ...


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## AndyT (11 Apr 2017)

Very nice! And quite quick too. But I can't see any woodworking books...


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## Col (11 Apr 2017)

AndyT":17iu6tm4 said:


> Very nice! And quite quick too. But I can't see any woodworking books...



Thank-you and well spotted - they're actually in another bookcase that is right beside my computer desk (in the same room) that I can reach without getting up.


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## Col (11 Apr 2017)

...one final question for thoughts on flatness versus smoothness.

This project is just a load of 'flat looking' surfaces but actually there are several places where I sanded out tears from my poor planing etc. The final surface is smooth but not flat - I can feel it but not see it. It's probably possible to set up the lighting so that it shows but on this project it doesn't really seem to impact the end result.

But there must be other types of projects where flatness becomes more important?


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## Setch (11 Apr 2017)

That looks absolutely smashing, well done!


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## DTR (12 Apr 2017)

Brilliant =D>


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