# Shed/workshop compromises, please help!!



## yeungster79

Hi Guys, brand new to this awesome website I have waded through a lot of great posts on this forum and would like to attempt build a shed/workshop within a strict budget of about a grand (don't laugh!!) and with limited amount of time, I am hoping that you guys can help me with my decisions so that it doesn't go terribly wrong  It would be great to attempt a Mike style workshop but I think that's not going to happen!!

What I plan on building is a 14' x 8' pent shed for holding my workbench and general storage, out the back of the garden. It's mainly to replace our pre-cast 1970's bomb proof concrete shed that stands close to the back of the house. We are extending the house and this shed must go. Time and budget is limited - so I need to make compromises. I wont be spending many hours in there every day so I can comprise on some aspects. 

*The floor:*
I won't have the time to dig out the garden and pour a concrete slab. My initial thought is to go with 4'' posts dug down say 1.5 feet and set in postcrete with rubble under the posts for drainage. The posts rising 12'' above ground level, I think I would need to dig at least 12 holes to support the 14'x8' frame, screwed in with heavy duty bolts to the 4'' risers. The floor frame would be suspended above ground level by at least 6'' with a polyethylene vapour barrier on the ground, therefore allowing good ventilation under the shed.

The floor joists would be spaced 24'' apart hung with metal joist hangers and noggins into the floor frame. Would 2'' x 5'' pressure treated joists suffice?

I would use some form of insulation between the floor joists, preferably not polystyrene would attic style insulation suffice?

The floor will be moisture resistant chipboard tongue and groove (2'x8') 18mm thick.

*Please blow holes in my floor method or suggest an alternative as it's fairly critical to say the least!!*

*The upright framing.*
Pressure treated 2''x3'' for the bottom plates. All the rest standard CLS 2''x3'' timber. 

What's the best way to fix walls to floor, large heavy duty screws? 

*The roof.*
2''x5'' roof rafters cut with birdsmouths directly above the vertical studs, what I can't figure out is how I attach these to wall frames, is there special brackets that would be better than banging nails in all over the shop?

11mm OSB sheathing on rafters, now I would love to have the money for an EPDM roof, but I don't think I will with a grand budget, hence thinking Ondulain sheets, the roof pitch will be around 10 degrees if this makes any barring on what's best?

I would put insulation in the roof, maybe standard attic style to keep cost down.

*The cladding inside to out.*
9mm OSB as a cheap vapour barrier inside screwed/nailed to walls.

Insulation in the walls, more cheap wool stuffed in there?

Some basic membrane on the outside, any ideas?

Horizontal 1'' battens with 6'' vertical weatherboards with 1'' spacing and covered with say 2'' weatherboard strips, I like this style it looks pretty contemporary, or would I be better with bog standard feather-edged cladding. This I think will be the most expensive part of the build. 

*Windows and doors:*
3 windows nothing fancy maybe some clear Perspex. Or some second hand glazed windows, if the budget stretch's!

Double doors of some kind on the short side of the shed.

As it progresses I will post pictures and I am working on a sketch up drawing, any advice is much welcome at this stage. 

Thanks 
Alan


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## RobinBHM

Foundation, 12 pads seem fine, concrete blocks is an alternative option. If your top soil is quite solid maybe cover the area with paving slabs, you could get them almkst free if they arr used ones on ebay. This will give you a base that is floating so could settle. If you dig down below the top soil a d create pads you may have a more solid basd but there will be greater pressure on each pad.


Just screw the rafters down with long screws.

Cromar 3 membrane?

Vertical T&G should be counterbattened, vertical first, then horizontal. Conventional cladding is therefore less work and cheaper!

Windows, what about some used upvc windows? Double glazed, cheap and often available. Even if the dg unit is misted up you could replace at a later date. Double glazed units are cheap if you can find a local manufacturer.


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## yeungster79

RobinBHM":6927tqxj said:


> Foundation, 12 pads seem fine, concrete blocks is an alternative option. If your top soil is quite solid maybe cover the area with paving slabs, you could get them almkst free if they arr used ones on ebay. This will give you a base that is floating so could settle. If you dig down below the top soil a d create pads you may have a more solid basd but there will be greater pressure on each pad.
> 
> 
> Just screw the rafters down with long screws.
> 
> Cromar 3 membrane?
> 
> Vertical T&G should be counterbattened, vertical first, then horizontal. Conventional cladding is therefore less work and cheaper!
> 
> Windows, what about some used upvc windows? Double glazed, cheap and often available. Even if the dg unit is misted up you could replace at a later date. Double glazed units are cheap if you can find a local manufacturer.





RobinBHM":6927tqxj said:


> Foundation, 12 pads seem fine, concrete blocks is an alternative option. If your top soil is quite solid maybe cover the area with paving slabs, you could get them almkst free if they arr used ones on ebay. This will give you a base that is floating so could settle. If you dig down below the top soil a d create pads you may have a more solid basd but there will be greater pressure on each pad.
> 
> 
> Just screw the rafters down with long screws.
> 
> Cromar 3 membrane?
> 
> Vertical T&G should be counterbattened, vertical first, then horizontal. Conventional cladding is therefore less work and cheaper!
> 
> Windows, what about some used upvc windows? Double glazed, cheap and often available. Even if the dg unit is misted up you could replace at a later date. Double glazed units are cheap if you can find a local manufacturer.



Thanks Robin, the back of shed line to the front of shed is sloped by at least 6'' so Im worried about the amount of digging and getting the dirt out of the back. Plus I can imagine that levelling 12 paving slabs over 14x8 would be a bit of nightmare. 

Regarding the pressure on the 12 posts, with 4'' posts into the ground set in postcrete would this have enough load bearing strength? I dont plan on putting really heavy equipment in.


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## Fitzroy

Alan,

My experience of building my shed:
- Low cost and low effort are not comfy bed fellows. Where I have saved money it has invariably been at the cost of my own time.
- Unless you have a flat level and already paved area to put the building on the groundwork takes time and effort. My pal and I did (started) a shed at the time time, for his we did a concrete pad, for mine I did pier foundations (a bunch of levelled concrete blocks). Both were back breaking tasks that took multiple weekends.
- Vertical cladding is lots more effort than horizontal, more battening, and more complex detailing around windows, doors etc.
- EPDM, vs Torch on felt, vs onduline sheets, the costs were not massively different, for the roof on my 20'x10' shed the total cost of any option were within £50-75 of each other.
- Insulating is expensive, for my 20x10 pent shed the insulation materials (glass wool in floor and walls, and celotex in the roof) i'm looking at £300+. I'm insulating so that if I ever want too I could use the building as a garden office, ie for long time periods. My old shed is not insulated but working in there of an evening with the fan heater on and heavy jumper it's ok. You could change your wall design to. Cladding, battens, membrane, OSB, then joists. Leaving the inside open so you could insulate at a later date if you find it uncomfortable to work in it.

On some of your specific questions:
- For the beam sizes look at joist span tables. A 2x5 joist at 600m spacing the tables shows a max span of 2.1m . For your floor this may be ok as you have intermediate supports. For your roof this is undersized, you'd want 400mm spacing or 2x6 joists.
- I put nets between them floor joists with glass wool (attic) insulation. Concerned I may have created a perfect mouse home, but time will tell. Could have used polystyrene etc but was more expensive....
- I used 150mm M10 coach screws through the wall floor plate and into the floor frame.
- I fixed the roof joists by cutting bird's mouths and using 'truss clips'. Was probably overkill (the theme of my build), and I could have just nailed.
- 11mm OSB boards on a 600mm joist spacing and you will not be able to walk on your roof (well I wouldn't but I'm a larger chap), i'd be worried about snow load also (but I live in aberdeen).
- The lower the roof pitch the more risk of water penetration. You'll need to take a close look if onduline sheets are ok at this angle, if they are then the overlaps between sheets will be larger and you'll need more sheets. If you can't get a continuous sheet the length of your roof, with a 10° pitch i'd be worried about wind driven rain getting past the overlap.
- If you insulate the roof, with insulation between the joists, you should allow for a ventilated gap above the insulation. With 125mm joists and a 50mm gap, this is only 75mm of insulation, that's not much thickness for glass wool.
- Membrane, I used permavent eco (from ebay), seems fine.
- Use secondhand windows off of gumtree, search regulary and you can normally get them free/v.cheap. You need to do this upfront and start collecting them, you can then design your shed around them. If you design a shed and require a specific window size then you'll be paying through the nose.

Have fun with your build, looking forwards to the pictures.

F.


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## skipdiver

When i did my 9' x 8' storage shed, i dug holes about a foot deep, filled with concrete, then put 7 newton blocks on top bedded with mortar to level. I built a framework from 6"x2" tanalised and dropped it on the top, putting dpc underneath on top of theblocks first. 6"x2" will easily span 8ft and in theory you could get away with 6 pads, though i'd be inclined to do a few more to take out the bounce. I covered that in flooring chipboard, then built the walls straight off that. I used 2"x2" tanalised for the walls, with 2" insulation and boarded the outside with feather edge and the inside with MDF. Roof was 4"x2" sloping with 18mm OSB (11mm too thin IMO) and felted it. It wasn't meant to be used for working in, so i just built it fast and cheap for storing stuff. You could beef yours up a bit and 3"x2" CLS can be had for £2 for a 2.4mt length from Wickes if you buy ten or more. 

It's not the most robust structure but it's way better than a shop bought shed and didn't cost that much to do. Could certainly be done in your budget. The other option is to buy a decent shed and beef it up yourself with boarding and insulation.


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## SteveF

I made a huge mistake when I extended my shed
original part I built with 4 x 2 trusses on edge (peak roof)
the extension in a fit of total brain fade I laid my 4 x 2 flat across the headers
what a screw up, I really to this day don't know why, as it wasn't part of my scribbles
extended part is flat roof and had already been sheeted before I realised my madness
ended up putting 4 x 2 below roof in the correct orientation to make an upside down T and used truss clips to strengthen
I now have a really low roof inside on half my shed, which now will give me a headache with ducting

my whole point of this is:
make a drawing and stick to the important bits
don't scrimp on roof timbers, the weight on top is quite substantial and even more so when loaded with snow


Steve


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## yeungster79

That's great info fellas, it's great to hear others stories where it went good/wrong etc.. 

I will incorporate all above into my plans. Good to hear I should go 2x6 on the floors and roof joists, be a right disaster if it snows like crazy and the whole thing collapses!


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## yeungster79

Changes required so far ..

Foundation
- Consider concrete piers with blocks - is the idea of burying 4'' posts in postcrete horrifying folk?? 

Floor
- 2x6 joists

Roof
- 2x6 joist on 600mm centres
- 18 mm OSB at least - although lugging 18mm sheets up would defo be a two man job!
- revise pitch to >10 degrees dependant on roof material for example Ondualin at shallow angles could be an issue

Insulation
- Going to be expensive, consider insulating inside walls in stages. Therefore prioritise the floor for example.


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## Fitzroy

yeungster79":1hy4d0w9 said:


> Changes required so far ..
> Foundation
> - Consider concrete piers with blocks - is the idea of burying 4'' posts in postcrete horrifying folk??


Not at all, I like the idea, just don't be fooled into thinking it will be easy ;D Your approach was what I wanted to do, however the presence of mature trees and the potential for root damage meant I was not allowed to (under my planning permission, required as my house is in a conservation area).



yeungster79":1hy4d0w9 said:


> Changes required so far ..
> Roof
> - 18 mm OSB at least - although lugging 18mm sheets up would defo be a two man job!
> - revise pitch to >10 degrees dependant on roof material for example Ondualin at shallow angles could be an issue


I managed the 18mm on my own, my roof pitch is similar, I found I could stand the board on end leaning it on a roof rafter, then lift/slide it up on the roof, as the pitch was shallow it would not slide off, so I could then climb up and slide it into place prior to fixing it. 


yeungster79":1hy4d0w9 said:


> Changes required so far ..
> Insulation
> - Going to be expensive, consider insulating inside walls in stages. Therefore prioritise the floor for example.


That's the approach I have adopted.

With all these decisions, closer timber spacing, thicker OSB, etc you are adding to your cost though. My budget started at will not exceed £2k, i'm now approaching £3k having added electrics, nicer widows, larch cladding. The OSB floor is ugly so i'm toying with trying to source a secondhand real wood floor from Gumtree. To hold to your budget you'll need to be ruthless with your decisions.

F.


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## RobinBHM

4" stub posts is one way of doing it and will work fine, its a bit like doing a deck. I would suggest using a posthole spade and digging bar You need to go down far enough to get to hard ground and finish with a square bottomed hole.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Landsca ... ger/p55706

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p48155

If you are nearer than 2 metres to the boundary dont forget you will have a maximum height of 2.5M from ground level.

18mm osb3 can be lifted onto a roof single handed, its not that difficult actually, if its a problem screw a batten across the rafter ends to slide the sheet up against. 11mm isnt suitable really for a flat roof or shallow pitch.

sometimes EPDM is available on ebay as offcuts or creased rolls, although Ive found they arent a lot cheaper unless you can obtain very close to the required size.

EPDM isnt that expensive, its £7.50+vat per sq metre for the rubber so your roof would be about £150 incl vat and delivery. that doesnt include glue of course and if you use the proper trims they are expensive so just use timber trims

https://www.rubber4roofs.co.uk/classicbond


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## Fitzroy

RobinBHM":167w89s7 said:


> sometimes EPDM is available on ebay as offcuts or creased rolls, although Ive found they arent a lot cheaper unless you can obtain very close to the required size.
> 
> EPDM isnt that expensive, its £7.50+vat per sq metre for the rubber so your roof would be about £150 incl vat and delivery. that doesnt include glue of course and if you use the proper trims they are expensive so just use timber trims
> 
> https://www.rubber4roofs.co.uk/classicbond



+1

got mine from www.rubberroofingdirect.co.uk, used the 1.2mm stuff


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## yeungster79

Fitzroy":1cmpssq9 said:


> To hold to your budget you'll need to be ruthless with your decisions.F.



That's it Fitz, I'd love to have beautiful larch go on the outside but I will have to reconsider this when I firm my plans and get the spread sheet on the go with actual timber prices, goanna be tough decisions then lol. I see your in Aberdeen, any recommendations on timber merchants in Scotland, it seems they all deliver within reason.


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## Fitzroy

Got all mine from cordiners, cheaper than anything I found on the internet. They were v helpful and good service.


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## skipdiver

You can get 18mm OSB in tongued and grooved 2' x 8' sheets, which is what i used. Much easier to handle. 

Nothing wrong with 4"x 4" posts into concrete but i used blocks on piers because i had stuff left over from my workshop build.


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## yeungster79

Regarding general stud work - would 3x2 CLS be the cheapest suitable timber for the walls? 

3x2 would give just enough room for insulation im thinking. 

As this project goes on I have the urge already to make it bigger and more detailed!


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## SteveF

not a great fan of cls
but if cost is issue then so be it
I would aim for 4 x 2 if possible
I built my shed from western red cedar from saw mill in the hope it will outlive me (it was still wet when I got it, but surprisingly does not seem to have moved)
can get a bit more insulation with that extra 1"
also the header plates would be 4" instead of 3", just more to think about

Steve


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## RobinBHM

CLS is really mean in net size, Id go for 3 x 2 studwork if you can or 4 x 2 if you want to go properly strong, thats what I used for mine and am certainly pleased with the extra rigidity. Of course off the shelf budget sheds are only 32mm sq or 38mm square frame so a 3 x 2 cls or stud will be pretty strong. You will certainly end up with a shed equivalent to a top end off the peg jobbie.

Its worth working out your meterage and getting prices to compare. its also worth ringing around and finding out what stock lengths are available, as you dont want to spend ages working your cutting list out for 4.8 lengths, then finding your supplier has only 3.6's or 6.0 metres!

If you draw out a plan of the studwork frame, it should be possible to cut virtually 100% of your lengths straight from a cutting list. To do that you need to know the exact finished section size, 47 x 95 or 45 x 97 etc etc. Each supplier will be slightly different.

I did 4 x 2 framework with 18mm osb to the outside then covered with tyvek housewrap, when I got to that stage the shed was really well sealed, no draughts and the rain just runs straight off, and thats before the cladding goes on, so I think the breathable membrane is a great plus, much better than cladding straight onto studs.


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## MARK.B.

Not saying it cant be done but i think you will struggle to do the build for just a grand, all the little bits n pieces can soon add up , does your budget allow for electrics / sockets / lighting.


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## yeungster79

Hi Mark, your right it's going to be hard to do the lot for a grand, the electrics and wall and roof insulation will be phase 2 of my build, im not overly concerned about what I consider the workshop requirements just yet, my immediate requirement is storage space.

Measured out yesterday for expanding it to 14x10 and rough costing materials without cladding was around £750 thats just flooring, walls and OSB and 2x6 roof rafters with no EPDM or felt. 

With time and money issues its going to be a phased build, in all reality it needs to be ready by April. So ill crack on with the floundations and floor once I have solid plans/sketch figured out, then order wood for walls and roof.


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## Fitzroy

I was just working out my costs to-date, see my thread for details. Your timber costs are similar to mine (prorated for size) £1050 for 20x10 build. My costs are for 4x2 and 6x2 timber, so if yours are for 3x2cls they may be a little high.

F.


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## yeungster79

Fitzroy":236ovurc said:


> I was just working out my costs to-date, see my thread for details. Your timber costs are similar to mine (prorated for size) £1050 for 20x10 build. My costs are for 4x2 and 6x2 timber, so if yours are for 3x2cls they may be a little high.
> 
> F.



This is it having quick look around Edinburgh the mercants are taking the water on the timber prices! 

Saying that i need to get proper quotes direct from them.


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## Freddyjersey2016

Can I ask some questions
-	If you are extending the house – are you doing it yourself or using builders?
-	Are you digging foundations / laying concrete slabs for the extension - - by hand or using a minidigger?
-	Does this new shed have to be complete before the extension starts? Could you shove some stuff into Storage for a few weeks


If other concrete slabs / foundations are being laid – laying a concrete slab for the shed would be quicker and much simpler than trying to accurately install 12 posts – in the right place and dead upright (I would not attempt to do this). The shed roofline is likely to end up higher to allow the thickness of floor joists/ airgap under… the floor – so then you need steps / ramp. Cast in a piece of 50mm plumbing pipe to get cable inside the shed. 

If you go for a suspended wooden floor use 22mm chipboard flooring, much less likely to bend under load, and very little more expensive on this job. On a 2.4m span, I think you would need a mid-noggin to tie joists together to stop the floor bouncing (v. difficult to retrofit!)

Consider borrow / hire a compressed aiir or gas powered framing nailer – quicker than screwing / hand nailing. I would not bother getting timber cut at the merchants, get them to deliver in long lengths and gang cut to length on site when you know what you want


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## yeungster79

Freddyjersey2016":14bz1yqx said:


> Can I ask some questions
> -	If you are extending the house – are you doing it yourself or using builders?
> -	Are you digging foundations / laying concrete slabs for the extension - - by hand or using a minidigger?
> -	Does this new shed have to be complete before the extension starts? Could you shove some stuff into Storage for a few weeks
> 
> 
> If other concrete slabs / foundations are being laid – laying a concrete slab for the shed would be quicker and much simpler than trying to accurately install 12 posts – in the right place and dead upright (I would not attempt to do this). The shed roofline is likely to end up higher to allow the thickness of floor joists/ airgap under… the floor – so then you need steps / ramp. Cast in a piece of 50mm plumbing pipe to get cable inside the shed.
> 
> If you go for a suspended wooden floor use 22mm chipboard flooring, much less likely to bend under load, and very little more expensive on this job. On a 2.4m span, I think you would need a mid-noggin to tie joists together to stop the floor bouncing (v. difficult to retrofit!)
> 
> Consider borrow / hire a compressed aiir or gas powered framing nailer – quicker than screwing / hand nailing. I would not bother getting timber cut at the merchants, get them to deliver in long lengths and gang cut to length on site when you know what you want



No im not doing the extension myself have a builder doing it, we have a fair bit to store so im not so kean to store anything else where. I have about 4 months to build this, however it will consist of hours here and there. Once the extension build kicks off I don't really want to be trying to build my shed at same time, will be messy.

Ill defo go 22mm t5 chipboard for floor on 600mm joists. Im going to increase the width of it to 10 foot now, run a joist from end to end down the middle then the joists at 600mm will span less than 5 foot. 

Nail gun would be needed, ill probably hire that.


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## Halo Jones

Just as a note. Height restrictions aren't as severe as they are in England. I posted the Scottish Guidance on a previous post https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post1085687.html#p1085687.

Hope its useful.

H.


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## yeungster79

Progress made! Main floor frame almost built. Few hours digging out the 9 holes for 4'' posts. Half day to get the frame level and bolted to the posts and postcreted. Next job is the floor joists and then the T and G boards on top. 

Some questions guys - 

Should I lay polyethylene under the shed to stop any moisture coming from ground? 

Also thinking about putting insulation between joists, thinking the stuff that goes in the attic will be cheap and do the job, any suggestions?


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## pollys13

Might be a bit late in the day, not read all the posts on your topic. Just a thought, I see where you are located, if you Goggle Edinburgh wood recycling.
You get quite a few links to 2nd hand timber might be other materials available too.


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## yeungster79

Cheers Polly, will have a look


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## Fitzroy

I did netting between joists and glass wool insulation in the nets, seems ok. Friend of mine keeps winding me up I've built a rat hotel though! So long as there is room/openness for a draft under the shed I doubt a polythene sheet would aid much. 

F.


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## yeungster79

Contemplating doing similar Fitz regarding netting then laying insulation on top. Also contemplated using the plastic sheet instead of netting underneath stapled somehow to the floor joists to try keep out insects and rodents.. not sure if good idea??

Seen in your builld you mentioned you made an error bringing floor all the way to edge of floor frame effectively under the walls, is this just to allow easy removal of floor in future? 

You finished your build now?


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## Fitzroy

From my reading unless you put metal rodent proof mesh then they will get in if they want too! Problem with poly sheet is it will not allow moisture to escape, if any gets in it will pool 'forever' if you see what I mean. 

Regards the walls, another build on here did not take the Osb floor under the walls hence my statement of an error. I did some more reading but couldn't work out why it's a problem, except of course you can't lift the floor. 

Im due an update to my build but been a busy end of year. All cladding is on, boy what a job, just sorting the door. Short days in Aberdeen don't allow much work at the mo. 

F.


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## Paul200

Fitzroy":1bncsnbh said:


> Regards the walls, another build on here did not take the Osb floor under the walls hence my statement of an error. I did some more reading but couldn't work out why it's a problem, except of course you can't lift the floor.



I remember seeing this too and, like you, don't see why it's a problem. Certainly saves on doubling up the external base timbers. The only problem I had with it was that the floor has to go down before the walls and roof can make it watertight. Some moisture made it through the tarp I put over and the edges of the OSB3 swelled slightly. I guess the moral of the story is to make sure you can get the walls and roof up pretty damn quick! (hammer) (hammer) 

Paul


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## yeungster79

Thanks Paul/Fitz. 

As I need to do this in phases, I think probably best to add extra base timber to the floor frame, run the T+G floor up to the wall but not under. Then I'd have a solid base to frame the walls on, while not having the pressure to get the walls and roof up pronto, speaking of the roof, how flat can I go with EPDM? 

If I went 1'' per foot over 10 feet, I'd be roughly at 6 degrees slope, is that OK fellas?


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## Paul200

Just had a quick Google and can't see that information anywhere quickly!? Give one of the manufacturers a ring. If it helps we've just had a zinc roof installed on our new kitchen extension and the minimum recommended slope for that was 3 degrees - so I would think that 6 degrees will be fine.

Paul


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## yeungster79

Found a great tool online http://www.blocklayer.com for rafters and birdsmouths etc, attached is the proposed rafter.

What's not clear in my head is the size required for roof rafters, the span is 10 feet, 1 foot overhang and 6'' at the low side. 

Is it safe to span 10 feet with 4x2? I had a quick look and I see that C16 4x2 allows 8.85 feet, while C24 allows 9.51 feet, my roof will either be 11mm OSB or 18MM OSB with EPDM.


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## yeungster79

Right, reading more threads etc the walls will be 4x2 and the roof rafters 6x2 I think the extra expense is worth it long term.

One potential issue I have measured diagonal to diagonal and im off by 3/4'' from left to back right been longer. How significant is this?? Could I frame the walls slightly over the left post to ensure Im sqaure when walls go up??


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## Phil Pascoe

What a bloody amazing site! I'm going to poach it and post it in its own right.


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## yeungster79

phil.p":galqx1di said:


> What a bloody amazing site! I'm going to poach it and post it in its own right.



Blocklayer? Yea its supeb isn't it


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## RobinBHM

yeungster79":1p4pqw07 said:


> Thanks Paul/Fitz.
> 
> As I need to do this in phases, I think probably best to add extra base timber to the floor frame, run the T+G floor up to the wall but not under. Then I'd have a solid base to frame the walls on, while not having the pressure to get the walls and roof up pronto, speaking of the roof, how flat can I go with EPDM?
> 
> If I went 1'' per foot over 10 feet, I'd be roughly at 6 degrees slope, is that OK fellas?



Epdm is a flat roofing system. Generally felt flat roofs are set at minimum fall of 1 in 40 (1 in 80 is considered theoretical minimum for water run off, however 1 in 40 allows for felt joints etc).

On a 3.0m roof minium fall would be 75mm.


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## AES

Thanks to the OP for this link. As phil.p has said in today's post "something for everyone" here.

Most useful, (Imperial and Metric too!), bookmarked, thanks.

AES


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## yeungster79

RobinBHM":bhsj5vj8 said:


> yeungster79":bhsj5vj8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Paul/Fitz.
> 
> As I need to do this in phases, I think probably best to add extra base timber to the floor frame, run the T+G floor up to the wall but not under. Then I'd have a solid base to frame the walls on, while not having the pressure to get the walls and roof up pronto, speaking of the roof, how flat can I go with EPDM?
> 
> If I went 1'' per foot over 10 feet, I'd be roughly at 6 degrees slope, is that OK fellas?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Epdm is a flat roofing system. Generally felt flat roofs are set at minimum fall of 1 in 40 (1 in 80 is considered theoretical minimum for water run off, however 1 in 40 allows for felt joints etc).
> 
> On a 3.0m roof minium fall would be 75mm.
Click to expand...


Thx Robin, Ive tweaked the roof to around 12'' over 10 feet (1:12). Around 4.8 degrees of fall.


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## yeungster79

AES":37r6iewu said:


> Thanks to the OP for this link. As phil.p has said in today's post "something for everyone" here.
> 
> Most useful, (Imperial and Metric too!), bookmarked, thanks.
> 
> AES



Yea found it really usefull for planing my birdsmouths, looked on youtube and every video describing how to do it was so convuluted, that bricklayer.com made it really easy.


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## skipdiver

Used the blocklayer site for years when i was a jobbing joiner. Had it on my tablet and it was a simple task to work out a cut roof with it. Not used it for a while now and just had a look to see many new features on there. Very useful site.


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## Cabinetman

Hi, I have completed three workshops, 18mm 0SB is fine for floors on a 16 inch joist spacing, go for the 2' x 8' with 
T and g edges then you won't need noggins under the joints, someone commented that it didn't look very nice I disagree, if you can get a couple of coats of polyurethane floor varnish on it before you walk all over it too much it will look great. 
Loft insolation is good in the walls don't recommend it under the floor as it's useless when wet you need something like King span. Would recommend beef up wall timbers to 4 inch that extra insulation in the walls and at least 12 inches in the roof means that you can keep it to a nice 12 /14 degrees in the winter with an oil filled radiator and it will cost next to nothing to heat. 
Somebody mentioned using UPVC window frames, this is a good idea and if you want to save money go and see a window firm and snaffle some of the secondhand stuff they take out, you might even be able to get a door and a frame.
Think about where your bench is going,( I always prefer mine fastened to the walls it doesn't move then ) and put in a horizontal batten at the right height to fasten to later, coach screws are useful for this sort of job.
When you are making the walls build them up flat on the ground it's much easier and then move them into position and coach screw to the floor joists . This sort of project is fun, hope you enjoy it . Ian


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## yeungster79

Finally got the floor down. Been very slow progress with the wet weather and getting few hours here and there.

I have insulated under the floor with 100mm of general purpose attic insulation, had to save money here and there so this will do for now.

The floor is 18mm tongue and groove p5 moisture resistant, screwed to the joists. It's fairly solid under foot and no bowing etc.. pretty happy with it. Left bit of an expansion gap and will fill with silicone in due course.


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## yeungster79

With the size of shed and it been within a meter of the boundary I had to move the left wall in to be within regulations regarding the roof height, also while doing this I decided I wanted a deck at the front, so I moved the front wall back. So the plan now is to build a sitting deck to the side and front, the side deck will be storage and the front will be a nice place to relax in summer with a cold beer!


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## Fitzroy

Go go go, roll on cold beer on the deck in summer!


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## AES

GREAT idea (but it would be wine for me - personally, I can't stand beer - each to 'is own though.

RAIN?????? Here (NW Switzerland) we've had very little since last October, and all the farmers are moaning about "it's too dry" (mind you, they're always moaning about something here)! Had some rain yesterday (about 6 drops - twice) then it rained properly for about an hour. This morning? Dry as a bone!

I think the best idea is for you to dismantle what you've already done, bring it over here to finish it off - I've got a good place for it in the garden, and you can stay overnight while you finish it! I could do with the extra space to add to the cellar   And they say Swiss beer is pretty good too (dunno myself). 

Seriously, looking good.

AES


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## yeungster79

Sorry not been putting up progress pics, the extension on house has begun so I have the shed almost done bar the roof cladding, windows


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## yeungster79

Walls going up


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## yeungster79

Roof on, still needs EPDM but it's watertight with that tarp.


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## yeungster79

I am pleased with it so far, progress has been very slow due to the horrid summer here in Edinburgh that and getting little time to work on it. It's watertight and have put in my workbench, some nice shelving. The pvc Windows coming out of the house I plan to reuse use in the shed as the main extension progresses. Think I can get the roof epdm on for less than £200 from trialling the internet.


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