# My TS-200 fettling and saw/RT bench build thread...



## RobertMP (22 Mar 2010)

Changed thread title to make a bit more sense 
changed it again now to include making a stand for it.

................

I've taken the saw apart and cleaned out the accumulated sawdust.

Then I removed the internal blade guard







blade has seen better days





The black strip that moves (rotates it about the blade axis) the riving knife bracket was a little bent but is straight now.





I didn't fancy destroying the original blade guard so i made a flat plate version from sheet aluminium. I had some threaded bushes so i used a couple of those as spacers and superglued them against vibration. then a bit of black spray so it looks the part 






Now this is where it gets interesting.... When the blade is in the fully lowered position the riving knife bracket stops the travel before the adjusting thread on the handwheel bottoms out. That means the little black strip is in compression when you hit resistance on the handwheel. Continue winding to try and get the blade flush or just below flush and the black strip bends. You can see the hole near centre of the picture has travelled past the end of the banana slot below it when the handwheel reaches the end of its thread.





here's the same hole from the other side





Closer look





What I'm thinking is if I can extend the movement slot a little, the blade will lower under flush easily and the black strip that rotates the riving knife bracket cannot get bent again.

Not an easy spot to work in though. Worth the effort?

Edit... Oh and I found the 'problem' as described in the ebay listing - the belt was loose and slipping so i tightened it  I could turn the blade mount whilst holding the motor stopped before but can't now.


----------



## RogerS (22 Mar 2010)

Make sure that the belt isn't too tight otherwise you'll knacker your bearings. Might be worth fitting a new belt as if it was loose then it will have probably been slipping which results in polishing of the belt which then makes it slip which polishes it......

Well, I think that's what Bob (9fingers) taught me


----------



## RobertMP (22 Mar 2010)

It's not super tight now. Just enough to grip. There was fine sawdust in the belt grooves which couldn't be helping either.


----------



## OPJ (22 Mar 2010)

I think you generally want 10-12mm deflection on drive belts like this? Someone else will know for certain.


----------



## jimi43 (22 Mar 2010)

Woooo!

Wizer-Vu! :lol: 

I hope Axminster is watching...what with Tom's excellent re-engineering and now some seriously nice metalwork customisation from you Robert...well...someone in China is gonna grab your ideas!

Ultimately this should result in a machine that works right out of the factory the way it should...

Now...about that dust hopper! :wink: 

Jim


----------



## big soft moose (22 Mar 2010)

tom (and us but i didnt document it) had the same problem with that black rod getting bent out of shape.

I cant remember how (or if) tom resolved his but we did what you are thinking about and extended the slot - we used a grinder in a flexible shaft on a dremel to allow access to the otherwise awkward spot (It only needs extending by a few mm to allow flush.

dust hopper wise there are two routes - the elegant one which i think tom took and which ed did to his 419 (which is now mine) is to use compound mitres to make a four sided hopper with a 4" tube fitting on the bottom.

the quick and dirty route, which we took, is to mount the saw in a plywood stand with a box below it , then cut a hole in the side of the box to fit a hose mounting.

The former looks nicer but comparing DE performance between my 419 and the work ts200 i dont think it matters which you do from the point of view of effectiveness (which ever you do its a good idea to seal joins with silicon sealant.


----------



## RobertMP (22 Mar 2010)

OPJ":1m0o1lq9 said:


> I think you generally want 10-12mm deflection on drive belts like this? Someone else will know for certain.



The pulleys are only about 5 or 6 inches centres so I doubt it should be that much. It was about 8 - 10mm pushing on one side but it then had little grip. now it is about 3 - 4mm and it does grip.

Plan is to get the raising and lowering working right then look at making a hopper and closing some of the openings. better order a new blade too.

Thin kerf and make a new riving knife? like the idea of a thin cut and less waste per cut.


----------



## RobertMP (22 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":1hp52o78 said:


> (It only needs extending by a few mm to allow flush.



problem is the direction it needs extending in is towards the fold in the bracket - which means relieving some of the upstand to give the nyloc nut somewhere to go....


----------



## big soft moose (22 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":2sevhdxu said:


> big soft moose":2sevhdxu said:
> 
> 
> > (It only needs extending by a few mm to allow flush.
> ...



we didnt take thart much off - if you took away say half the distance between the existing slot and the fold that ought to be sufficient to allow it to go flush without you needing to relive the upstand.

that said quality control on these saws is variable to say the least and they arent all identical so you might need to remove more metal than we did to get the same result.


----------



## RobertMP (23 Mar 2010)

So I was thinking about making the banana slot in the main bracket longer because the black link plate was too long and decided it would be easier to make a shorter link plate. So I found a bit of stainless that was about the right width (couldn't find any steel the right size) and cut it to length and drilled 2 6mm holes on centres that were 2mm closer than the original.





Fitted it and the height adjustment now travels to the end of its thread with a nice positive stop 





Fitted my flat plate belt guard and noticed that the top edge is parallel with the table surface - which it wasn't before!





So I started looking at the riving knife. It has been butchered to let it drop lower by having the slot extended.
This is the original position





And here it is lowered. Now I don't like the look of this. There is enough wiggle in the slot to clear the blade but only just. The other problem is the top edge - which now has only the leading radius at higher level and the rest of the top edge is no longer parallel to the table surface.... at least I think it's a problem! I've found some 2mm steel plate and am thinking of making a new knife.





Whilst the blade was back on I thought I'd check if it was set parallel to the table slots. I marked one tooth and measured the distance with my digital caliper... set the display to zero and rotated the blade so the tooth was back down to table level the other 'end'.... The difference was 1.15mm!! Double checked as it was so far out and got the same result. So another job for the list.


----------



## jimi43 (23 Mar 2010)

I love the way you are approaching this project Robert.

You are changing the cheap but vital parts so that they work within the design constraints of the entire saw....very impressive and cheap!

Brilliant!

Jim


----------



## wizer (23 Mar 2010)

God I wish you'd done your one first. The difference between my thread and this is that you seem to have an inching of what you're doing. :lol: You should go into business supplying upgrade kits for these saws. I'd buy one!!


----------



## RobertMP (23 Mar 2010)

^ lol. The metalworking and mechanism is easy enough but I don't have any experience of tablesaws.

Anyway back to the riving knife. I drew it up in sketchup using a downloaded blade outline. changed the mounting hole to a slot so the bolt does not need removing - just slackening. Seem like a good idea?





Printed it full size on paper and cut it out with scissors. The top edge of the knife is 4mm below the blade crown in its lowest position.





Now if I want the knife higher I could either do this or put the original one back on in its supplied position.





Would the increased clearance between knife and blade be a problem in the 'high' position?
planning on grinding a feather (taper) on the leading edge of the knife.


----------



## wizer (23 Mar 2010)

Robert, looks good to me. Make two while you're at it... :lol:


----------



## Chems (23 Mar 2010)

Seems like a good idea, the reality is that you'll rarely be cutting material to the max of your blade. I know its a smaller blade but with my 10" I have very rarely ever needed that full 70mm cut height so your solution seems sound enough.


----------



## RobertMP (23 Mar 2010)

Well I've made one (but I have enough steel for another if it works out well in use).

Needs a new shim to go under it about .7 thick so that is a job for tomorrow. got plenty of thinner sheet steel.
Not enough movement in the slot to let it touch the blade even if you don't look when mounting the knife so pleased with that.





Slipped the crown guard on. Just needs the nut tightened a bit to keep it there. easy on and off.





So get the knife aligned and bolted on tomorrow then try and get the blade in line with the table...


----------



## big soft moose (23 Mar 2010)

looks good, i think the original owner of yours must have modified (read bodged and buggered) that riving knife because ours doesnt drop as close to the blade.

so far we are pretty much on par except that i havent bothered to put a guard back on the belt - it doesnt seem likely that anything will drop through and foul it especialy once the ZCI is inplace.

talking of which are you making a ZCI for yours - if you are i'd be interested in seeing your aproach - we are thinking mdf and just rise the saw through it under power


----------



## RobertMP (23 Mar 2010)

A zero clearance insert is probably on the list of 'to do's ' but a fair way down 

I have some 3mm polycarbonate which might be an alternative to MDF.

I was thinking my flat plate would help deflect the sawdust downwards as much as actually guard the belt?

Got a couple of ideas for other improvements while I'm at it... and when I get to it. long way to go yet.

I've emailed the seller asking about the mitre gauge but had no reply.... just like when I bought it! Anyone know if there is an aftermarket mitre gauge that would fit and how much it would cost? I'll phone the seller and try to get the original sent if a new one is silly money.


----------



## big soft moose (23 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":11od3y9c said:


> I've emailed the seller asking about the mitre gauge but had no reply.... just like when I bought it! Anyone know if there is an aftermarket mitre gauge that would fit and how much it would cost? I'll phone the seller and try to get the original sent if a new one is silly money.



be aware that the slots in the top of the ts200 are not standard sized so most aftermarket guages wont fit (unless you modify ither the slot or more probably the rod)

axminster do this but again i wouldnt guarantee that it fits a ts200.

It might be worth contacting axminster both to ask them about the above and also to see if they can supply a replacement standard ts200 mitre guage - its not offered on their website but their customer service is pretty good so its worth a try


----------



## wizer (23 Mar 2010)

I've done the ZCI on mine. Shame I've got ten ton of rubbish all over the top of the saw or I could show you.

I did it out of hardwood. Thicknessed to about 3mm then I routed a rebate on the router table to allow for the fixing plate to mate to it.

rubbish description, I'm aware. I'll be in the workshop tomorrow (taking delivery of my lovely new toy, er tool. So I'll try to get some pics. I must admit, I winged it and got lucky. It works perfect.


----------



## wizer (23 Mar 2010)

I thought about either getting some bar made up which is the exact fit of the slot or making it out of wood and metal sheet. i.e The wider part could be sheet metal (alu) and then hard wood runners glued\screwed to it. This would be good for home made jiggery, but I also thought about taking the bar off an incra gauge and replacing it with a DIY version. I think someone here said it'd be possible.


----------



## jimi43 (24 Mar 2010)

Robert...just one point I may have missed but driven by your comment about not knowing about tablesaws....and just to check...

The riving knife must made so that its thickness is half way between the thickness of the kerf and the land (main bit) of the blade.

If too thin it will not work at all and if too thick the stock slot cut by the kerf will crash into it.

I guess you figured this out but just in case you didn't.....

Also if you bevel the leading edge the stock will easily slide either side of it....

Jim


----------



## RobertMP (24 Mar 2010)

Don't assume I know this stuff so please do comment  The original knife was 2mm thick so I've made mine from 2mm too. I have 'sharpened' the leading edge and rounded/ polished all the edges to help it do its splitting thing.

Got a trip to the airport to do today so don't know how much I'll get done today but I'm sure I'll make some progress.


----------



## jimi43 (24 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":16vuf52n said:


> Don't assume I know this stuff so please do comment  The original knife was 2mm thick so I've made mine from 2mm too. I have 'sharpened' the leading edge and rounded/ polished all the edges to help it do its splitting thing.
> 
> Got a trip to the airport to do today so don't know how much I'll get done today but I'm sure I'll make some progress.



It's quite obvious when you have it described. Basically when you cut the stock...in ripping...the teeth are obviously creating the cut or kerf which is 2-4mm wide for most TS blades.

Once the cutting starts, certain strains within the wood may be released or obstacles may be met such as long fence maladjustments, which will cause the slot cut to close up while the remaining stock is still being cut.

This closure without the riving knife, or with a too thin knife will eventually close down on the blade body or land and, since this is rotating TOWARDS you....well....you can imagine now what kickback is!!!

The riving knife being correctly installed will be obviously thinner than the kerf slot so that the two pieces of stock are allowed to pass either side, aided by the bevels...and IF the stock closes its progress is halted by the knife BEFORE it is allowed to clamp on the blade. SIMPLES...

Other things to think about...obviously the short fence is advised...which will virtually eliminate one of the causes of kickback or use a subfence...which is clamped to the main fence and is a short fence.

Hope that helps.

Jim


----------



## Racers (24 Mar 2010)

Hi,

I have used the clear plastic from 3 liter coke bottles for shims, can't remember off hand how thick it is but you can allways double up.

Pete


----------



## RobertMP (24 Mar 2010)

Well I haven't had the call to 'pick me up from the airport' yet so I have done some more...

Made a 0.7 thick steel shim and fitted my riving knife. It lines up perfectly with the blade.






Lowered position





So moving on to blade alignment...

Now I thought this was going to be a bit of a pain but it turned out to be quite straightforward.

Putting a straight edge to the blade I could see it was out. Compare how much screw is showing at 80mm and 480mm on the rule -





There are zinc plated steel hinge blocks that mount the saw carriage and 4 bolts in the corners of the white casing that hold the casing to the cast top.





You can see by this hinge block compared to the other end in the above picture things are well out.





just comparing the casing to the cast top it looks wrong too.





So using a combination of allen key in the screw head and spanner on the nuts I slackened off all the cast top fixings - except for the one hinge block that already looked nice and centrally mounted. I also left the saw bevel locking screw done up (the bristol lever thing above the depth adjuster handwheel) so the mechanism remained tied to the outer case.
Then it was just a matter of levering the movable end with a screwdriver until the blade was parallel with the table edge. I did check and the table edge is 100% true to the table slots.





Stuck a bit of tape near one tooth and measured the same tooth when front and back of the saw. After a few shoves on the screwdriver it is pretty near perfect. Tightened all the screws up again and re checked and still OK.





Case isn't 100% parallel to the table edge but is very close now... not that it matters really.


----------



## jlawrence (24 Mar 2010)

hang on.
Blade alignment needs to be with the mitre slot (and/or fence) - I wouldn't trust that the screws are actually accurately positioned.
Tom's thread had a very good description of how to check (and adjust) the blade alignment. Admittedly I still need to get around to doing it on mine.


----------



## RobertMP (24 Mar 2010)

jlawrence":2w4f0hj5 said:


> hang on.
> Blade alignment needs to be with the mitre slot (and/or fence) .





read it again..... it is. I did measure the slot and hole positions relative to the edge and they are precision machined so referencing off anything on the cast table is going to give an accurate result.


----------



## MickCheese (24 Mar 2010)

All looking good and very clearly explained.

That blade looks horrible, I hope one of your ToDos is to change it?

Interesting thread.

Mick


----------



## RobertMP (24 Mar 2010)

New blade is on the list 

............

One other that was on the list was to replace the mains lead with a longer one. It had about 4 maybe 5 foot of wire on it. So I now have a new cable fitted and about 4m long.

I had noticed the rear cover on the switch was not covering very well. It has just a single screw fixing above the switch. Once I had fitted the new cable it all went back fitting nicely or at least it did after I made a new earth bolt position so the earth wire had a straight route.

Then I tried moving the motor to the 45deg cut position..... and the cover lifted away again.





Now the cable to the motor is not too short but it is quite stiff and pulls the cover away allowing sawdust to get into the back of the switch.

So strip of aluminium. pair of long nose pliers and a couple of M3 nuts and bolts and another problem solved


----------



## Henning (24 Mar 2010)

Think you should opt for a slightly more covering thread title: 

"From Axi to Felder"
"How to make the most of your ebay bargain"
"Not longer run of the mill"

Or any other to that effect... :lol: 

Impressive efforts, and i am sure you will have an absolutely fantastic tablesaw in the end!


----------



## RobertMP (24 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":3qvp6qsb said:


> talking of which are you making a ZCI for yours - if you are i'd be interested in seeing your aproach - we are thinking mdf and just rise the saw through it under power



Coming back to this for a moment.. What happens about the riving knife? Take it off to make the cut then hand modify the insert to cut more away for the knife?

not thinking of doing it just yet but the thought crossed my mind 

.............

edit.. Thread title could be better I guess. think the 1st suggestion above may be optimistic lol


----------



## jimi43 (24 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":2wldqyug said:


> big soft moose":2wldqyug said:
> 
> 
> > talking of which are you making a ZCI for yours - if you are i'd be interested in seeing your aproach - we are thinking mdf and just rise the saw through it under power
> ...



Yup! Spot on.

The more I watch these Axi mods...the more I am astounded by the poor design...and it isn't just Axi...the Scheppach is just as bad...

I wonder if any of the manufacturers or distributors will take heed?

Jim


----------



## big soft moose (24 Mar 2010)

i doubt the manufactueres themselves will - principally because they are in china - the TS200 is basically a clone of the original design for the kity 419 but built down to a price , hence the iffy design compromises and just branded axminster

what i would like to see tho is axminster themselves perform some of these mods, particularly the improved dusty extraction, after import and then sell the modded saws as an option at a slightly increased prices as the TS200X or similiar.

maybe Ian (or is it richard from axmister, i get confused) will see this thread and share their thinking


----------



## RobertMP (25 Mar 2010)

Not a lot to report today.

The blade cowl that I removed must have helped deflect some of the sawdust and looking at the bare blade some of that sawdust will now be directed at the bevel adjustment thread and the big banana slot for locking the angle.

So I heated up a bit of clear polycarbonate held in the vice with a paint stripper hairdryer thing and bent it to 90 deg. Then a few cuts on the bandsaw and some holes and poprivets later I had a deflector bracket.

It is going to work very well for full depth 45 deg cuts....






No more effective than the cowl that came off though for shallow 90 deg cuts. I laid the old cowl on for comparison but it needs to be lower ....





Clearer view. Shame I overheated the polycarb a bit and melted some of the protective polythene onto the surface 





The only other thing I did today was to fit rivet nuts into the bottom of the chassis so the side panels can be removed without having to have a hand inside the saw holding onto a loose nut. Makes getting access inside much easier. They welded nuts inside for the top fixings so why not the bottom ones??

Think that is about it for internal mods.

Things are going to slow down a bit now as I need to design the housing the saw and router are going to inhabit. Think that will influence dust collection too so not looking at hopper construction just yet.


----------



## big soft moose (25 Mar 2010)

nice - one point tho (excuse me pointing out the potentially obvious) - you are going to have to seal the banana slot up to maintain suction anyway (most of us use duct tape as it is easily applied and removed) so the deflector isnt really necessary.

also if i were you i'd look at sealing the big hole on the back of the saw (where the DE used to exit) with either a piece of perspex or steel plate and silicon sealant or similar - you will get a lot more suck thatway than if you rely on the housing to seal it up.


----------



## RobertMP (25 Mar 2010)

Yes I realise the major hole in the back needs a panel over it. that's a bit of tin and a few rivets from the outside job.

Not convinced about the banana slot. There is quite a gap between the top of the chassis and the underside of the cast table. I'm thinking it is more a collecting up what falls under gravity thing (and stopping dust floating out of openings) more than sucking out airborne dust situation?

minor edit added


----------



## big soft moose (25 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":306eu8q4 said:


> Yes I realise the major hole in the back needs a panel over it. that's a bit of tin and a few rivets from the outside job.
> 
> Not convinced about the banana slot. There is quite a gap between the top of the chassis and the underside of the cast table. I'm thinking it is more a collecting up what falls under gravity thing (and stopping dust floating out of openings) more than sucking out airborne dust situation?
> 
> minor edit added



Ideally speaking you want as much suck as possible - not least to pick up dust from the cut itself andstop it winding up in the air in your 'shop (if you were going for just what falls by gravity you might as well not bother with a DE but just stick a bin under the saw)

therefore for it to work properly you need to seal up all the holes and gaps (except obviously the saw slot) - on our ts200 we have tape over the banana slot (and the others in the side and back), the big hole sealed up (with sealant as well as rivets for an air tight seal), and multiple layers of duct table all the way round the underside of the table sealing it to the body - and over the seams of the body and anywhere else that might not be air tight.


----------



## RobertMP (25 Mar 2010)

Guess that will come down to testing. Not doubting what you say - just thought the negative pressure of having extraction at the bottom somewhere would be enough to stop airborne dust drifting out of the holes.

Decided to use some more polycarbonate to block up the rear hole so I now have a viewing window in the back 

maybe I should set it up on the original stand and try a few cuts to see what happens. Could use polythene and duct tape for the hose connection to the bottom for now.


----------



## big soft moose (25 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":26mtzv7w said:


> Guess that will come down to testing. Not doubting what you say - just thought the negative pressure of having extraction at the bottom somewhere would be enough to stop airborne dust drifting out of the holes.
> 
> Decided to use some more polycarbonate to block up the rear hole so I now have a viewing window in the back
> 
> maybe I should set it up on the original stand and try a few cuts to see what happens. Could use polythene and duct tape for the hose connection to the bottom for now.



You are right about the negative pressure but we arent connecting - what I am saying is that if you leave the banana slot (etc) uncovered then the DE will suck air in through them (so there is no issue with dust floating out) - however the suction through these gaps is essentially wasted and will reduce the ammount of suck you get through the saw slot - which in turn will mean less pick up of dust at the point that matters most.

The importance of this also depends on your DE set up - If you were planning on having a dedicated HPHV extractor just for the saw then you probably have suck to spare - but if you are planning on plumbing it into a ducted system or using a LPHV extractor then you need to conserve your suck at every opotunity (chances are you are somewhere between these extremes)


----------



## RobertMP (25 Mar 2010)

Truth is I haven't given extraction a lot of thought 

Up to now I've been using a 110v BVC industrial vac that I kept when the business closed. It has a 63mm inlet and just about keeps up with my planer thicknesser but it is definitely a vac rather than a chip collector.

I had (obviously wrongly) assumed that the dust would mainly be projected downwards and not necessarily be flung upwards and out of the slot again.

Got plenty of polycarbonate left so cutting some profiles and adding some silicone shouldn't be too big a job to seal the table to the chassis.

Thanks for the words of wisdom (though I still might try a test to see what happens  )


----------



## jimi43 (25 Mar 2010)

I find the greatest use of these forums - apart from the obvious friendship this one excels in...is that it enables you to bypass the "I would have thought that would work" stage and get to the good result stage by listening to those who have "been there done that" before.

I have saved a huge amount of money not farting about with possible solutions and jumping right to the best answer...simply by taking the advice of the expert guys and gals here....

Just a thought.... :wink: 8) 

Jim


----------



## dickm (25 Mar 2010)

Would it be possible/worthwhile to fit some sort of brush strip round the banana slot to reduce airflow through there? Or even a piece of leather or similar with a curved slot to allow movement?
My ancient Lurem spews dust in every direction, and it's taxing my ingenuity to work out a way of fixing some sort of extraction, so this is a very useful thread.


----------



## big soft moose (25 Mar 2010)

dickm":3pjf1k10 said:


> Would it be possible/worthwhile to fit some sort of brush strip round the banana slot to reduce airflow through there? Or even a piece of leather or similar with a curved slot to allow movement?
> My ancient Lurem spews dust in every direction, and it's taxing my ingenuity to work out a way of fixing some sort of extraction, so this is a very useful thread.



I looked at that - but eventually decided that it would be more airtight to just stick a bit of duct tape over the slot - i dont tilt the blade very often ( tend to use the scms for mitre cuts) so it makes more sense to just tape it up , and on the rare ocassion i want to tilt, just rip it off , move the handle and retape - at £1.20 for a 100yd roll duct tape is still a cost effective solution.


----------



## big soft moose (25 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":324r7ak4 said:


> I had (obviously wrongly) assumed that the dust would mainly be projected downwards and not necessarily be flung upwards and out of the slot again.



chances are that quite a lot of it does go downwards but it very much depends what you are cutting - I ripped some mdf sheets the other day on my 419 without the dust extractor turned on ( My DE at home is in a state of flux as i'm in the middle of swapping extractors) and dust went ever which way - I was very grateful i was wearing my powercap which is usually reseve for turning.

I think quite a bit is also thrown forwards and also some stays on the blade for its full revolution before being projected upwards.

Course the other option for dealing with the above table dust is above table DE - but the extraction via the crown guard on the ts200/k419 is pityfull - imo the pipe is too small, our intention is to replace the crown guard with a suva style guard with a 63mm uptake which will plumb into the ducting via a blast gate seperately to the below table extraction.

(Ducting wise we are going to be running a twin motor DX5000 as the principal extractor (if this proves insufficient we will get a second DX5000 or camvac and split the ducting to machines between them - but we are a different fish of kettle to you are we usually have several people in the shop and multiple machines on at the same time) with a free standing RSDE2 for small more aplications like the ROS


----------



## PeterBassett (26 Mar 2010)

A slightly more complicated solution to the banana slot problem.

Some pivoted perspex cover pieces that follow the handwheel when tilting.

The yellow piece is directly next to the outside sheetmetal of the machine. The green piece sits on top of that.


----------



## RobertMP (26 Mar 2010)

I'm just trying something similar now 

Problem with your idea is the locking handle for the tilt gets in the way as it is kind of above the height adjuster wheel. Hoping my idea gets round that.....


----------



## big soft moose (26 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":2p8wopsi said:


> I'm just trying something similar now
> 
> Problem with your idea is the locking handle for the tilt gets in the way as it is kind of above the height adjuster wheel. Hoping my idea gets round that.....



True - but i think i might give petes idea a spin on my K419 - as the 419 has one handle for height and tilt and thus doesnt have the same issue with obstruction.


----------



## PeterBassett (26 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":1a838q4o said:


> Problem with your idea is the locking handle for the tilt gets in the way as it is kind of above the height adjuster wheel. Hoping my idea gets round that.....



Ah, not having a tablesaw to look at, I thought something might end up interfering with the movements.



big soft moose":1a838q4o said:


> True - but i think i might give petes idea a spin on my K419 - as the 419 has one handle for height and tilt and thus doesnt have the same issue with obstruction.



Will be interested in seeing how well it works. BSM, you will have to pay quite close attention to the relative sizes of the sections and where you drill the hole for the handwheel shaft as these dimensions determine the overall coverage and clearance needed top and bottom. My drawing is very much not to scale. :lol:


----------



## RobertMP (26 Mar 2010)

Makrolon to the rescue....


So there is a gap between the webbed underside of the table and the top of the chassis





So I found a use for the scroll saw I was given recently and made a pair of infil strips





Which I then siliconed n place.





Then on to my idea for baffling the banana slots. Took longer to draw up the paper template in sketchup than it did to make it 





Closes all the opening in the 90deg position.





And enough in the 45 degree as it will not get used there much. Had to hack away a bit of my sealing strip to clear it but i can get round that.





Plan is that a simple spring between the polycarb plate and the back of the handwheel will keep it in place. being cut to fit round the washer on the locking lever stops it rotating out of positon so no pivot needed.

Other end to do next


----------



## big soft moose (26 Mar 2010)

nice - we fixed a bit of ply to the underside of the table so that it is flat rather than webbed anmd then sealed the gap between the ply and the side of the saw with duct tape - yours is nicer to look at though


----------



## RobertMP (26 Mar 2010)

Not much more to add..

the other end is sealed now -






The two side panels are back on now and I've fitted and squared up the 2 aluminium bars that takes the fence and extension panel. Now to take a bunch of measurements so I can draw it up and work on the 'BSM' style unit to take it.


----------



## big soft moose (26 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":2p0xeayx said:


> and work on the 'BSM' style unit to take it.



nice tho i take no credit for that design - I think it was tom who had the idea originally, tho he hasnt actually done it yet.

(also the unit ours is in used to be a norm style router table which i bought off paul J together with a T11 router - we just butchered it to take the ts , then cut the top to fit in the ext table)

btw a standard piece of kitchen worktop is exactly 18mm too thin to be at table level when fitted in the ext table supports - fortunately Mdf comes in 18mm and we had a bundle of offcuts kicking about, so it was dead easy to make it fit exactly.


----------



## RobertMP (28 Mar 2010)

Well I've been drawing this cabinet up for a while now and thought it might be an idea to see if there are any pifalls i've not seen before I get too much further 

I've ordered 100mm castors and a table insert plate but not bought any sheet yet.

So here are some screenshots from sketchup. the router and castors are downloads and not exact representations.

The extrusions on the saw have some useful looking grooves in them so I was thinking of using them to fix a fence to using long T headed bolts - maybe studding welded to plates or something.

fence design can of course be developed more.






Need to fabricate some kind of dust collection hopper to go under the saw position.





idea is the saw sits on a flange plate base that allows it to be removed from the cabinet for maintenance - along with the router table top and under frame.





Comments welcomed


----------



## wizer (28 Mar 2010)

You're really showing me up Robert!!  I love these mods that you're doing. Makes my efforts look puny.

One suggestion. The tilt locking lever, you might want to change that for a knob of some sort. In use, I find that lever incredibly annoying. In fact I find them annoying in general. Much prefer a knob unless absolutely necessary. You could make them like SteveM does with ply or hardwood or just buy one. 

Any chance I could borrow a copy of the banana slot cover SU template, please? I could have sent you my SU file for the saw, tho it looks like you've done a good job. 

This is how far I got with designing my TS200 cabinet 






I like your idea for the RT Fence, but you need to think about whether you're going to get on with the TS200's 'fence'. Personally I thought it was diabolical. The upgrade fence I put on is much nicer in use. But horses and courses. At the moment I just clamp my old RT fence to the TS fence. Works perfectly and I will continue to use it when I re-make the RT fence.

Also I replaced both side panels with ply, which will give me a bit more room inside the cabinet. All I had to go was chop a bit off the bottom of the motor assembly. 

Keep the pics coming, enjoying watching your take on this.


----------



## RobertMP (28 Mar 2010)

The existing fence does look a bit crude. adding the fence that you did shouldn't make any difference to the cabinet I'd have thought.

The router fence could be turned round and used as a full width fence for larger panels as long as I take the time to square it up maybe? In any case the idea was to just slide the plate nuts out of the extrusion ends along with the fence when not in use for routing.

Print the template full size, cut it out then check it to the saw - it wasn't quite right and I pencilled the changes on the paper template before cutting the plastic. file is here. Think it was around the locking lever it was out.

Looking at your sketchup the rear extension support is something i'll have to give some thought to as well.

Solving design problems is what I've done all my working life..... just in sheet metal instead of wood


----------



## LarryS. (28 Mar 2010)

one possible issue with the fence, i built almost exactly the same unit as you are planning for my ts-200. The fence however I put in runners and this gave me one benefit which I hadn't foreseen : 

i can lock off one side of the fence, and then make very fine micro adjustments by moving the other side only

however, I can see the benefits of your design, if you do come up with a solution I may be copying it


----------



## wizer (28 Mar 2010)

Thanks for the file Robert.

The idea with my flip up out feed is that it pivots up into place without needing hinges. But I've not got as far as firming up the technicalities yet. Whether or not I'll ever manage to get it built, remains to be seen


----------



## LarryS. (28 Mar 2010)

wizer, i like your outfeed idea, its a problem i've had with the unit since the start and you've given me a possible solution.

i'll try and get some time in the shop this week and see if it will work for me


----------



## big soft moose (28 Mar 2010)

i'll get some pics of our outfeed next time i'm at the work 'shop, its very similar to what top is proposing except that its on simple hinges and has a gate leg on a castoring wheel for support 

i like what robert is proposing for the fence too - i may do that on my 419.

by the way robert did you ever get a mitre guage ? - if not i may have a spare as i seem to have two with the 419 -( tho I'll need to take it to work to check to see if it'll fit on a ts200)

by the way if either tom or robert could send me their skippy for the ts200 - ( bigsoftmoose at googlemail .com) then that would be great.


----------



## RobertMP (28 Mar 2010)

Should have a mitre gauge with luck. Seller seems diabolical with emails but i phoned and agreed to send them some postage money by paypal so they could send the mitre gauge on to me. So if they ever check their emails for paypal it should turn up next week some time.

Still playing with the design....

It occurred to me that the bench will be along a wall most of the time and would need pulling out to use it - which is fine for sawing but seems more effort than need be when doing a small routing job.

On my current B+Q el cheapo router table I threw the plastic fence away and just clamp a batten across as a fence..... so I've changed the table top edges to have overhangs suitable for clamping to - which would mean i could clamp a fence 90deg to the one in the drawing and run the workpiece along the bench instead of across it if that makes sense 

I've 'hidden' the nearest aluminium extrusion saw fence mounting rail to make it clearer..


----------



## wizer (28 Mar 2010)

Interesting design Robert. It's hard to work out the best configuration isn't it? I think mine will very much be a '1st Revision'. The only way to see if things will work is to suck it and see.


----------



## RobertMP (30 Mar 2010)

Needed the wheels for my cabinet to check the height so took a look at the sliding table while I was waiting. It slides a bit like it has slightly square wheels!

Taking the rollers off they are not square but they do have a lot of digs in the plastic





there was also some lumps of compressed sawdust in the runner





the wheels turned up from Toolstation just as I had cleaned off the rust and cup rings from the table itself.





With the bearing free to run in the vise I lightly held the ROS to it with a 320 grit disc on. The wheel spun as it lightly sanded - just enough to take off the high spots.




it feels better just running a single bearing in the groove now. Re assembly can wait until I've made the cabinet.

Decided to go with the last design in my previous post. Set the saw up on an old chair frame and no dust extraction of course.... and rapidly produced a set of blanks from the sheet of 18mm construction grade ply I bought this morning.





Also discovered you can cut the wrong size really easily by looking at the wrong scale on the fence. What a daft idea making a reversible fence handed so you need to look at a different scale according to which way round it is!

While I think of it.... why is there a shallow height side anyway? I'm using the shallow side as that is the way it was left. Also seemed to me that the fence not being full width of the table wasn't helping when cutting panels.

Just cutting those few pieces I could see how the sliding table could be useful so I'll have to come up with a quick fix and remove connector so I can fit it easily when I need it and leave it off the rest of the time.

Edit. The blade is blunt but didn't do too bad. 30T freud blade is on order. hoped it might turn uo today but seems not.

Now to start making some shoulder cuts to some of the panels with a router...


----------



## big soft moose (30 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":3gsbdfg5 said:


> Also seemed to me that the fence not being full width of the table wasn't helping when cutting panels.
> 
> Just cutting those few pieces I could see how the sliding table could be useful so I'll have to come up with a quick fix and remove connector so I can fit it easily when I need it and leave it off the rest of the time.



the short fence is a protection against trapped kickback when ripping wood (you can buy a full length fence from axminster - but with your design it will soon be irrelevant anyway)

regarding the sliding table with my kity 419 ed (who owned it previously) has just replaced the nuts on the bolts that mount it with plastic handles , so it is easy to quickly release them and slide the table on and off.


----------



## LarryS. (30 Mar 2010)

RobertMP":2xr0p9iq said:


> Now to start making some shoulder cuts to some of the panels with a router...



Robert, not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but if you mean cutting slots at the edge of the plywood (rather than away from the edge) then I avoided this, i always cut the slots within the plywood so the connecting piece is pinched on both sides. Also needed to do it because there was no top to the unit (plywood at least) and at the base the base was 3 inches above the bottom with a 3 inch support beam underneath the strengthen the whole unit (without which there is a fair chance of the unit sagging I think)


----------



## RobertMP (30 Mar 2010)

Bit late now as the deed is done 

All held together with screws for now. plan is to glue it and use the screws instead of clamping it up... seeing as I don't have enough suitable size clamps. Wheel is just clamped on to look at 

holes for dust exit to be cut yet too.






Close up of a bottom corner.





Being 18mm construction ply it seems reasonably strong. guess I could add a batten to the front underneath between the wheels.


----------



## kevinr (30 Mar 2010)

big soft moose":2ug8hc33 said:


> _________________
> a pretty face is fine, but what a woodturner really needs is a woman who can fit a tree under each arm.


Noticed your Signature recently, and found this picture today. I take it this is who you had in mind!


----------



## big soft moose (30 Mar 2010)

kevinr":3qxja2mq said:


> big soft moose":3qxja2mq said:
> 
> 
> > _________________
> ...



umm , i did say a pretty face was fine ....


----------



## woodsworth (30 Mar 2010)

When you are cutting very think pieces on the table saw you will be thankful for the shallow sided fence. You could make a push stick that runs along it as well to push the wood clear of the blade. Try that with the fence upright and see how far you get :wink:


----------



## RobertMP (31 Mar 2010)

Some useful items arrived today. Chose the Trend plate as it was the only one I could get via Amazon and I had a voucher I hadn't used.





Having checked the position by putting the saw on the new table i marked then fitted and sealed the flange plate foot to the underside of the saw.





Dust chute... I did draw one in sketchup but it didn't seem worth all the head scratching with angles so I screwed temporary end plates onto 2 bits of mfc offcut, marked the shape then just used a hand saw to keep the cuts in one plane.




^ I do have a wood vise* - it's what the metal vise is clamped into. too lazy to take it out 

Having watched the sawdust being propelled out from under the saw when i used it with no extraction it was obvious most dust is directed straight down. So I made a compound angle to the chute so that the stream of dust is bounced towards the extraction point... in theory.





Just been out and got a drainpipe connector so I can make the hole for that now. Then it's take it all apart and put it back together with glue this time.

* vise or vice ? lol


----------



## RobertMP (1 Apr 2010)

All glued and screwed together now and dust chute too. With the idea that i can see if dust builds up in the chute I sprayed a bit of white aerosol in the inside. The saw is ready to be rolled over into position. 





I knew about this miscalculation earlier. I seem to have ended up a thickness out with the support to the router table end. Easily fixed by cutting down some offcuts to fill the gap.





Router table top to make next. I did look at the fireback laminates in Homebase and they looked ideal. Shame there were no damaged ones going cheap as I'm not paying £25 or £35 for one! So lump of kitchen worktop it is for now. Should be relatively easy to change the table top if I see something better at a later date.


----------



## RobertMP (2 Apr 2010)

Pressing on...

I've fitted the Trend plate to the Triton router. Of course the screws were too short and of course the thread on the router is not metric! Well they weren't but they are now. Ran a M6 tap in a battery drill in and out of the tapped holes. Cut a deep enough thread to hold onto the screw OK but wouldn't want to try tightening it too much. meant I could use some M6 x 20 countersunk screws that I already have. Plenty strong enough.





trends plate smells horrible when you drill it! And why are the insert rings so tight?? Levering them out with a screwdriver dents the near edge. I've removed part of the snap in lip and marked that point with a marker pen so I know where to lever to get them out without quite as much force.... still tight though.

Then there is the edge of the plate.... I made a precision fit cut out using clamped on bits of 12mm mdf template. Put the plate in place and it seemed tight dropping in the last 2 mm but it went. go to take it out again and it breaks away the laminate in 2 corners! there is a moulding flash line running around the edge of the plate and that is what ruined my nice cut out. Sanded it off now.




I couldn't be bothered messing about with the little plastic toggles they give you so I glued some small beech blocks into the corners and drilled for screws. Prepared and glued + screwed on some more beech to edge the panel. Takes a lot of time for not much to show.

...........

I put some masking tape over the table slot where the blade rises and turned on my shop vac. The hose contracted showing it could not draw enough air so I'm quite pleased with my dust sealing and chute arrangement. I reckon if i do make a ZCI it should contain most of the dust pretty well. Question then is - is there enough flow to carry it out of the saw and into the vac...


----------



## MickCheese (2 Apr 2010)

Looking good.

I am finding this thread very interesting.

Mick


----------



## RobertMP (2 Apr 2010)

Nice to know someone is looking. Been talking to myself for a while now :lol:

Fitted the router table top and called it a day










This is the simple fence I used to use on the old B + Q benchtop table. As you can see with the gap between the table top and the saw and the space under the ends I can clamp a simple fence crossways on this table.





Proper fence as per my sketchup still to do and some drawers to make. Need to get a NVR switch from somewhere too as the one with the B+Q table fell apart.

Once it is all done I need to attack my 8ft x 2ft bench you can see in the background above. Plan is to chop about half of it off and then I'll have a home for the new saw/router bench.


----------



## OPJ (2 Apr 2010)

Was that gap between the two tables intentional??? 

It's a great idea, though, and appears to work very well for you.


----------



## RobertMP (2 Apr 2010)

OPJ":23hwbnyl said:


> Was that gap between the two tables intentional???
> 
> It's a great idea, though, and appears to work very well for you.



Yes 

See the sketchup view at the top of the page (p5).

The idea behind it was that the bench will normally be against the wall and the 'normal' fence would be 90 deg to the wall so it would need pulling out to use it. being able to take a simple clamp on fence like above means I can do the odd small job without pulling the unit out.


----------



## RobertMP (6 Apr 2010)

Another update...

I chopped a table saw sized lump off of my 8ft x 2ft layout table bench thing... which means I can turn the saw sideways to use it and still get past it 





Decided the sliding table could be useful while making the drawer boxes so thought I'd sort that out first.

There were no end stops of any kind fitted to the sliding table track. So not knowing what they should look like I just made my own.
There is a cast web central on the underside of the iron table which is milled back to miss the track by about 5mm. I drilled and tapped the web and fitted a M4 cap screw. I then drilled through the aluminium track and fitted M4 cap screws and nuts near the end - positioned so the screw heads clash when maximum travel is reached. Works well and gives as much travel as possible.





I can't have anything sticking out the side of the saw when the sliding table is not fitted so the original brackets that mount the sliding assembly to the saw table top were out of the question.
So I set to with some heavy gauge steel sheet, a couple of bits of 40mm angle iron, a metal cutting blade in the jigsaw and metal cutting blade in the scroll saw. Only the angled slotted holes were cut on the scroll saw. Very slow process but the tiny blade cuts like a laser.... albeit a wobbly one 





I drilled the saw chassis and fitted threaded bushes for the M4 x 20 screws.





I fine tuned the joint between the angle iron and the plate to get the level right and the table running parallel to the saw blade (set it to the table tee slots as the blade is already true to those. Then I tightened the screws holding my plates to the saw chassis and double checked alignment. So now I can just loosen the 6 screws on the saw chassis and lift the sliding table away. When I put it back again it is perfectly aligned.




You can see the head of the screw that acts as a travel stop in the above picture too.

I imagine the sliding table will be used mostly for square cuts on panels so I have arranged the track position such that I get maximum travel which ends when the squaring arm is just past the blade axis. I can see this causing problems with travel if I want to cut angles but I guess finding the ideal position will come with experience.

Anyway just need some drawers and a router fence now and it's job done.


----------



## MickCheese (8 Apr 2010)

Be careful with the ends of the sliding track, they are as sharp as hell. On the advice of Rob (Woodbloke) I made a wooden plate that fits into the track end with rounded corners so when I walk into the end of the track I don't rip a hole in my leg.  

Although the far end of yours looks like it has a plate riveted over it?

Mick


----------



## big soft moose (8 Apr 2010)

MickCheese":2zepzuu9 said:


> Be careful with the ends of the sliding track, they are as sharp as hell. On the advice of Rob (Woodbloke) I made a wooden plate that fits into the track end with rounded corners so when I walk into the end of the track I don't rip a hole in my leg.
> 
> Although the far end of yours looks like it has a plate riveted over it?
> 
> Mick



too right , mine has got a rounded wooden dish on it that ed made, handy for keeping allen keys etc to hand as well


----------



## RobertMP (8 Apr 2010)

There are screwed on painted steel plates on both ends that look original so nothing particularly sharp.

Quite pleased with my hook on hook off mounting brackets as it is very easy to take the track assembly off and put it back accurately positioned 

Made the drawers up today and fitted them. Was nice being able to use the sliding table then just hang it up out of the way afterwards.

Should get round to the router table fence tomorrow. More (and probably last) pictures then.


----------



## Mr Ed (8 Apr 2010)

big soft moose":1q2kxxh8 said:


> MickCheese":1q2kxxh8 said:
> 
> 
> > Be careful with the ends of the sliding track, they are as sharp as hell. On the advice of Rob (Woodbloke) I made a wooden plate that fits into the track end with rounded corners so when I walk into the end of the track I don't rip a hole in my leg.
> ...



That was a product of standing up underneath it after picking something up of the floor a couple of times - not something to repeat too often!

Ed


----------



## TheTiddles (8 Apr 2010)

Mine too, it's lethal

Aidan


----------



## Mr Ed (8 Apr 2010)

You can see my solution in the corner of this picture;








Ed


----------



## big soft moose (8 Apr 2010)

it works well - tho i dont leave the sliding table mounted all the time anyway because ive only got about half the space ed has.

on the one at work we've jetisoned the slider for space reasons and just use the mortice gauge instead


----------



## RobertMP (8 Apr 2010)

While we are on the subject of sliding tables...

That bent arm thing with the hold down clamp on the end - I had to replace the grub screw holding it with a bolt so I could get it really tightly mounted. Allowing it to swivel at all caused the clamping action to move the workpiece away from the squaring arm as you did it up.

Then there was the ali blocks that attach the arm to the sliding table - they caused the arm to roll back and lift the leading edge (hard to explain) because they were drilled at the wrong height for the T slot in the arm. drilled oversize holes to fix that.

I'll try and remember to take a picture tomorrow.


----------



## RobertMP (9 Apr 2010)

Was going to make a router fence but decided to do something more interesting instead - making a NVR switch 

Having used the saw a bit the one thing that was bothering me was not being able to get to the off button when cutting sheet material. One of the metalworking machines we used to have in the business had a kick bar kill switch so you could stop it without having to go looking for the switch. I always thought that was a good idea so set about recreating it.

The other thing putting me off just buying a NVR switch was their habit of going wrong and the fact that they are a bit cheap and nasty internally.

So I went to Maplin and bought some bits. A 3 pole 240v relay (L,N and stop circuit), mounting base, press to make green push button and an enclosure.

here is the receipt for part numbers and prices and my circuit diagram -





I already had some cable grip bushes and an old metalclad 13A socket. The white lead is the stop circuit. Shorted with a wire just for testing - it works 





So now i needed some stop switches. strips of ply with hinges and NC contacts used on microswitches which again I already had. Clear Polcarbonate covers to protect the terminals.





Was a bit awkward but installed under the saw bench and wiring clipped up out of harms way. Cables are gripped near the switches and insulated boots used on the spade terminals.





Heres a view with the router table hinged up to let some light in. drawers are removed.





And with the drawers back in place. Drawers are a bit heavy duty but I didn't want to buy more material just for them.





So I can plug the router in and just press the green button to start it then kick the 'foot switch' to stop it Or I can plug the saw in and use my NVR as an interrupt to stop the saw easily. Press the green button on my NVR, press the start button on the saw and it runs. Kick the stop bar to stop the saw and I'm back to 2 button presses to start the saw. If access to the saws stop button is easy then I can just use that as normal and my NVR stays on.


----------



## Webby (19 Oct 2012)

Having found this by doing a search for TS200 and it started in 2010....have any of these mods (improvements) been incoporated in the TS200 .....2012 version 
or do we not know 
Dave


----------



## MikeJhn (10 Mar 2016)

Or even incorporated in the 2016 version? LOL

Mike


----------



## DiscoStu (10 Mar 2016)

The TS200 went end of life last year it's now the TS20 -2. Main difference was a new fence and it's not backwards compatible which is a shame!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MikeJhn (19 Dec 2016)

Thread on the TS-250-2 which is a similar model, just a bit bigger here: axminster-ts250-2-modifications-t102284.html

Mike


----------

