# Pinnacle Honing Guide



## Hokie (4 Feb 2007)

Hi all!

Really enjoy and appreciate all of your information and advice. I have wanted to join for some time, but was really prompted to join to comment on David C's reaction to the guy on you-tube planing a board on his knee.

"Damn, I have clearly been doing it wrong all these years!" I've never laughed so hard in my life. 

Anyway, has anyone tried the Pinnacle Honing Guide (it's at Woodcraft)? You guys may not because I suspect it is manufactured by Woodpeckers out of Ohio, USA. Seems easy to setup.


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## MikeW (4 Feb 2007)

I'll just drop a picture in here for the sake of discussion--and welcome, Hokie!







Edited to add a link.

Take care, Mike


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## Paul Kierstead (4 Feb 2007)

I think it could use a knob or two ...

Interesting looking device, but seems to have run amok a little. Mind you, for all I know it could be dead easy and fast to use. But it sure looks like massive overkill.


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## Newbie_Neil (4 Feb 2007)

Hi Hokie

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil


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## superunknown (4 Feb 2007)

That looks interesting. Can they be bought from the UK?

I started working for a cabinet makers about 11 years ago, I got out a honing guide for my planes etc. There was a chap who worked there and he took the P**s because I had one. He had been working as a cabinet maker all his life for this company (about 25 years). I was quite stunned at that. But looking at the state of his chisels I think he really could have used one. 

I had various comments and put-downs for the rest of my time there  

Sorry to share that, but it got it off my chest. I had not thought of that in ages and you triggered it off.

:lol:


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## woodbloke (4 Feb 2007)

Hokie - welcome to the forum - Rob


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## David C (4 Feb 2007)

Hokie,
So glad you enjoyed, mind you it takes some skill to plane like that.

What a wonderful creation that jig is, but I think I will be sticking to my $10 Eclipse type.

Nola,

That attitude is fairly widespread. I bet yours were sharper than most.

David


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## Anonymous (4 Feb 2007)

Hi Hokie

Looks a bit over the top to me.

I used to use an eclipse until veritas bought out their mk II. Now, there is only one guide form me and it is superb - Veritas MK II


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## ByronBlack (4 Feb 2007)

David C.

Can I ask where I can buy a similar honing guide to the one you use? I intend to purchase a couple of your DVD's soon and would like to be able to follow along with a similar guide.


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## David C (4 Feb 2007)

Byron,

Easy, APTC far eastern Ecclipse type, side clamping honing guide, just over £5.

This is slightly preferable to the more expensive S&J model, as it will take extra wide blades such as 112.

David


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## ByronBlack (4 Feb 2007)

Cheers David, luckily I already have some bits and pieces on my APTC shopping list so I can add it to that!!

Apart from some waterstones, are there any other pieces of equipment that you could recommend for someone wishing to follow along with your sharpening dvd?


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## David C (4 Feb 2007)

Some means of keeping the waterstones flat, at regular intervals!

I use a piece of float glass plus lots of 180 or 240 wet and dry

The dvd shows a granite plate, about £27 I think.

A cheap 6 X 1/2" ruler for the ruler trick, £1-60 aptc

A nagura for the fine polishing stone if not included with yours.

Camellia oil to wipe on tools afterwards.

David


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## woodbloke (4 Feb 2007)

David C":3plbn1kd said:


> Some means of keeping the waterstones flat, at regular intervals!
> 
> I use a piece of float glass plus lots of 180 or 240 wet and dry
> 
> ...



.....a sink with running water is quite useful as well....its messy :lol: - Rob


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## Nick W (4 Feb 2007)

David C":3fziq26m said:


> A cheap 6 X 1/2" ruler for the ruler trick, £1-60 aptc


 :shock: 

Sixty quid for a ruler - how's that cheap. :wink:


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## Hokie (5 Feb 2007)

Thanks guys for your input. I enjoy my Veritas MKII for planes and use David's card paper trick for the camber. I'm not even going to pretend that I can sharpen an iron by hand like you masters can, but I enjoy chisels and using planes so much more when they are extra sharp. This jig looks very quick to setup up, and if Woodpeckers made it (Quick-lift Router Lift) I know it will be superb quality. I'm curious if the system for holding the iron straight needs some fiddling?

Ok, dumb question. I have been fortunate that my Record 7 had a Hock blade and my old #4 Stanley had been honed before. With a system like this, could I put off grinding, indefinetly? I hone away whenever the micro-bevel goes to macro bevel; I just want to avoid the grinding machines (cost).

-Gary


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## woodbloke (5 Feb 2007)

Hokie wrote:


> Ok, dumb question. I have been fortunate that my Record 7 had a Hock blade and my old #4 Stanley had been honed before. With a system like this, could I put off grinding, indefinetly? I hone away whenever the micro-bevel goes to macro bevel; I just want to avoid the grinding machines (cost).


Unfortunately, constant honing of the cutting edge soon increases its width to the point where it becomes too wide to hone _effectively_...it is doable, but gets to be harder work and the edge obtained doesn't appear to be quite so sharp...so yes, at some time you will need to have a munch on a bullet, dig deep into the back pocket and purchase a grinder of some sort, a Tormek is what I use and is recommended - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (5 Feb 2007)

Another dodge you can use if you don't have a grinder, is to hone the primary bevel on a coarse or extra coarse stone every half-a-dozen honings or so. It's quick if you do it regularly. That way the secondary bevel never gets too long. It's what I do because I can't afford a Tormek (  ) and don't want to risk burning my blades on a high-speed grinder.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## PaulO (5 Feb 2007)

ByronBlack":rp5l84tn said:


> Apart from some waterstones, are there any other pieces of equipment that you could recommend for someone wishing to follow along with your sharpening dvd?



Some chisels and plane irons might be useful. :roll:


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## bugbear (5 Feb 2007)

nola":1ge853s5 said:


> There was a chap who worked there and he took the P**s because I had one. [Sharpening Jig] He had been working as a cabinet maker all his life for this company (about 25 years). I was quite stunned at that. But looking at the state of his chisels I think he really could have used one.



Yep, I've had that experience too. (a Joiner, not a cabinet maker - probably an even more macho trade). 

He was installing some window frames in my house, and I lent him a chisel. It scared the bejaysus out of him :wink: 

"Proper people sharpen by hand" is the catch-phrase, although one is temped to add "and in same cases - badly"

BugBear


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## Hokie (5 Feb 2007)

Paul (Chapman) that's what I do now and have had success for years. Of course, in restrospect, 4 hours of hand lapping a new bevel every few weeks is a bit tiresome. Maybe the thing to do is purchase a slow speed grinder and buy a nice wheel. I'm most likely still going to get the Pinnacle for my birthday... I'll try a mini-review or something unless someone else already has one?

-Gary


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## Anonymous (5 Feb 2007)

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## Jake (5 Feb 2007)

Hokie":2out8stk said:


> ., in restrospect, 4 hours of hand lapping a new bevel every few weeks is a bit tiresome....



What on earth are you using? 

It takes five minutes max with an extra-coarse diamond stone.


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## Paul Kierstead (5 Feb 2007)

I can't take it anymore. 

It looks a little hokey to me.

okok, there, I got that out of the way, my apologies.


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## Anonymous (5 Feb 2007)

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## AHoman (5 Feb 2007)

Paul Kierstead":2k4k619c said:


> I can't take it anymore.
> 
> It looks a little hokey to me.
> 
> okok, there, I got that out of the way, my apologies.



Paul,
You totally cracked me up. I was trying to resist saying something about it, as well. It looks like something that would be involved in the next robotic Mars mission. Apologies to all, as well. Sorry. Really, I am. 
-Andy :twisted:


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## MooreToolsPlease (5 Feb 2007)

Does anyone know how long it takes to sharpen a chisel?
It does look like a fantastic gadget though


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## David C (6 Feb 2007)

Preparation of the flat polished back, (near the edge, not over the whole back) is a variable feast according to how well the manufacturer has done the job.

It has taken me anything between 15 minutes and two hours. Large bellied or twisted chisels say 1 1/2" wide can take an age. Some particularly awful specimens might just be impossible. This job is only done once, though it might need repeating in many years time as the chisel gets shorter.

Once this has been done, the bevel side work takes me about 4 minutes, which includes getting stones out and put away and hands washed.

About every seven or eight resharpenings I need to regrind which takes maybe 10 mins max, though to be honest I have not timed this.

The secret of fast resharpening is to keep the honing bevel narrow, the wider it gets the more strokes it takes to create the small wire edge, which is the signal that we have removed enough metal to get past the bluntness and damage that use has inflicted.

These times and observations apply to the method I choose to use, there are many other methods............

David Charlesworth


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## bugbear (6 Feb 2007)

David C":1mhiwffq said:


> Preparation of the flat polished back, (near the edge, not over the whole back) is a variable feast according to how well the manufacturer has done the job.
> 
> It has taken me anything between 15 minutes and two hours. Large bellied or twisted chisels say 1 1/2" wide can take an age. Some particularly awful specimens might just be impossible.



I had a bellied (in length) 2 1/2" wide plane blade by I Sorby, in otherwise perfect condition, from a wonderful condition Griffiths (coffin bodied) smoother.

I eventually air mailed it to Steve Knight, to use in one of his planes.

Steve has various power (and diamond) methods for flattening.

Nothing I could do was significantly effecting that blade; it was DAMNED hard!

BugBear


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## Hokie (6 Feb 2007)

Ok, maybe I was exagerrating with the 4 hours bit or maybe it was the Hokey stone I was using  

Ho-kay?

-Gary


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## Anonymous (6 Feb 2007)

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## bugbear (7 Feb 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":2hbu5lab said:


> Personally I'd do this with a double sided oil-stone



When honing, do you always use both sides (medium and fine on most double siders) ?

Does your final edge come from the fine side, or do you strop?

BugBear


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## Anonymous (7 Feb 2007)

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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2007)

Just bought some new chisels! :shock: I needed a 38mm and spotted Axminster special offer of 6 chisels for £16. Cheapo and not very nice looking. All ground to a bevel about 25 deg.
So how did they fare on the sharpening front? One would expect several hours of work by all accounts.
Here's how it went;
Flattening faces (back or whatever you call it) took exactly 0 secs, they were all flat (enough) i.e. you could vaguely detect a glimmer of light under the straight edge on 4 of them (0.1mm along the length?) - all _just_ concave i.e. dead flat in woodworking terms. Given several sharpenings in use and they will be even flatter.
Honing edge on smallest (6mm) took exactly 15 seconds on a fine stone.
Largest (38mm) took about 50 seconds.
Others in between.
They were already neatly ground so it only took seconds to bring up a wire edge, turn and take it off, and same again. Strop on hand.
In use eventually I will need to take off the whole bevel (by the "lazy joiner" system as above) so these times might increase to perhaps 2 minutes on the biggest sizes - if very blunt.

cheers
Jacob


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## ydb1md (13 Feb 2007)

Hiya Hokie,

glad to see there's another VT graduate on the UK board !

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Hokie (13 Feb 2007)

ydb1md":2mrbxwi5 said:


> Hiya Hokie,
> 
> glad to see there's another VT graduate on the UK board !
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:



We're taking over the world one forum at a time...

The Pinnacle guide is indeed made by Woodpeckers of Ohio. Woodcraft (in the US) has the exclusive rights to market this jig, so it will be in limited supply. It's made mostly of aluminum.

-Gary


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