# Making hand planes by machine



## AndyT (25 Mar 2015)

Nearly three years ago, there was a discussion on here about how the continental style of wooden planes are made, and I said I remembered seeing a video of some east European factory with automatic router heads coming into blocks of wood, but couldn't find it. Mignal thought he'd seen it too.

However, I was recently catching up with Graham Haydon's YouTube videos and noticed a comment on his excellent recent video about tuning up a wooden smoother. In the comment, someone called "Woodworking Fangirl" mentioned a budget range of planes by _Pinie_. That name was the missing link. Here is the half-remembered video, showing how they make their range of mallets, mitre boxes and wooden planes. I reckon they could well be the un-named maker of the cheap-but-good plane that some folk bought from Aldi a while back, and maybe also some of the range Rutlands used to have under their own brand name. 

Perhaps this is what Jimi has planned for his CNC mill?! :wink: 

https://youtu.be/nd8obk5-L0g

Enjoy!

(Some questions take longer to answer than others - and this video still does not show how the cunning wavy join is done on the ECE and similar planes where two types of wood are sandwiched together  )


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## Racers (25 Mar 2015)

I have a plane with a curvy join, the waves are just a shallow angle cross sections of the Vs.
They are cut at a slight angle to the sides so the Vs come out of the side and look like waves.

Pete


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## Andy Kev. (25 Mar 2015)

I reckon that that's probably the source of the two or three models of wooden hand plane which are to be found in the local DIY supermarket where I live in Germany. (They also stock a plane which must be a contender for the worst metal plane ever made. The body seems to consist of a sheet of metal bent into a U shape and the sole is painted! Could be a contender for a pass around, just to make people shudder.)


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## G S Haydon (25 Mar 2015)

Andy, I was interested by Pinie once I had that comment http://pinie.cz/en/wooden-planes and I found a place on amazon where you could buy them http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00J ... ge_o00_s00. I have the one in the link on order. What drew me in the most was how Pinie had gone for a mass produced wooden plane when we see mainly mass produced metal. Time will tell if it's any good. 
Thanks for the kind words on the video!

Andy Kev, they could be poor but it seems like Pinie is a trade tool, I'm "hopeful" they'll be good. Their website is skewed to suit them but it seems they have a following http://pinie.cz/en/about-company. I did email them about getting a Try plane to test but got no response. I felt the amazon plane was low risk at about £30.00 delivered. Will keep you posted.


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## Andy Kev. (25 Mar 2015)

Graham,

the ones I've seen look "competent", if I can put it like that. If I remember aright the DIY place has a smoother and a shoulder plane. If you're interested, I'll confirm that.

The metal one, on the other hand, looks so outrageously naff that you could probably get an Arts Council grant for it.


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## G S Haydon (25 Mar 2015)

:lol: competent :lol: . Photo would be cool, sounds like I might be buying firewood


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## RogerP (25 Mar 2015)

The guy spraying had no mask on or a proper booth?


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## undergroundhunter (25 Mar 2015)

RogerP":122zg9zn said:


> The guy spraying had no mask on or a proper booth?



It was powder coating not spraying, its just a dry powder that is electrically charged, would still have thought a mask would be needed though.

Matt


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## MIGNAL (25 Mar 2015)

Wooden Planes are pretty simple affairs. If it doesn't work very well out of the box there is a fair chance that it can be made to work. I like to set up Western Planes by treating the sole as if it was a Japanese Plane. I think it also lessens the problems associated with humidity swings.


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## Andy Kev. (26 Mar 2015)

G S Haydon":3udbgi2i said:


> :lol: competent :lol: . Photo would be cool, sounds like I might be buying firewood


I had to smile when I read that. I meant "competent" in a positive sense. Perhaps "workmanlike" would have been nearer the mark.

I should be able to get up that way tomorrow afternoon and if I can find my digital camera, I'll take a photograph.


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## Andy Kev. (29 Mar 2015)

I've got a couple of phots of the planes I mentioned earlier.

Can anyone tell me what I've got to do to upload them?

Ta.


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## RogerP (29 Mar 2015)

picture-posting-guide-t63716.html


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## Andy Kev. (29 Mar 2015)

Thanks Roger. Unfortunately, I'm having problems getting the filed size down (so far I've reduced from 2.1 mb down to 4.5 kb but still have a bit to do). I'll get back to it later.


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## iNewbie (29 Mar 2015)

Have you tried Shrink Pictures website?


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## Andy Kev. (3 Apr 2015)

OK, after much fiddling about in Photoshop, here's a pic of the smoother.


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## Andy Kev. (3 Apr 2015)

And here's the shoulder plane.


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## Andy Kev. (3 Apr 2015)

Finally, the weird metal-bodied plane.

I appreciate the phots are not up to much but I couldn't take the wooden planes out of the plastic wrapping.

What do you reckon to the metal thing, though? Ever seen anything like it?


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## G S Haydon (3 Apr 2015)

Thanks for taking the time Andy. I think the first wooden plane is a scrub. Pinie do a single iron and it's a scrubber. All the other bench planes they do have cap irons. The meal plane is a version of a diy plane https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHwFN61jvTk


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## Andy Kev. (4 Apr 2015)

Graham,

I had a look at that link. What struck me was that it involved a bloke who clearly knows a bit about hand tools and he was capable of getting a degree of use out of planes which were not made to high standards. With regards to the two wooden and one metal plane: they are probably the modern equivalent. However, the wooden ones _look_ alright but only use would confirm if that is the case.

To go slighly off topic: the metal one seems to me to be unfortunate. I say this after wondering who it is targetted at and I came to the conclusion that potential purchasers are either professionals in a desperate hurry who find themselves caught out without a suitable plane or people who've never had a plane in their hands before. The pro will be able to get what he wants out of it and then will probably bin it. But what about the chap or young kid who wants to take up woodwork, has never heard of Clifton, Veritas etc. (and who would probably baulk in horror at the prices) and who wouldn't know where to start on the second hand market (if he knows there is one). So he buys the metal thing - which as far as I can see has a body made by bending sheet metal into a U cross-section. Being a modern consumer it would never enter his head that it won't work straight off the shelf and that maybe the cutter needs sharpening before use. He takes it home, puts it to a piece of wood, gets more tear out than you could shake a stick at, gives up in disgust and legs it to IKEA instead.

While I accept that anybody can offer anything they want for sale as long as it meets regulatory standards, offering the metal thing does seem to me to be a bit unethical.


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## G S Haydon (4 Apr 2015)

Hi Andy,

The reason I popped the link on there is that different things work for different folks. Although the metal plane in your photos would not help most of us for the occasional user at home or someone like Mathias they seem fine. If the only option in town was pro grade planes many people would be spending more than they needed. As long as the spectre of marketing is not misguiding people I don't see an issue with the cheap red plane. Thanks again for the photos!


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## Andy Kev. (4 Apr 2015)

Lord knows what came over me but in a fit of ... what precisely? ... I bought the damn thing while out shopping this morning - a snip at €19.99. Review with pics to follow. However, given my IT skills, this may take some little time.


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## MIGNAL (4 Apr 2015)

Not sure I'd pay 20 Euros for one but only because there are probably better alternatives. 
Most of these very cheap Planes can be made to cut wood. That's hardly surprising. Give a rank beginner a Clifton, Veritas et al and within a few hours they will be performing just as bad as those very cheap Planes. That's because the vast majority of a Planes performance relies on a sharp blade. 
Get the blade sharp on those very cheap Planes and there's a decent chance they will cut wood to a fairly decent standard, as Mr. Wandel attests. There are a couple of other things that may upset the performance but they are usually relatively easy to rectify. 
Things change a little when you are dealing with 'difficult' wood or woods that are very high on the Janka hardness scale. A planes performance can become a bit more noticeable on those types of wood. A lot of woodworkers don't deal with those types of wood though. I do but even then they only represent 30% or so of what I use. The other 70% are woods that are fairly easy to deal with, well behaved medium density European hardwoods. These are the type of hardwoods where a wooden Plane excels. I expect those cheap Planes may not have much difficulty either. Even if they don't leave the surface of these hardwoods quite as free of tearout as the more expensive Planes it is something that usually can be easily rectified with a card scraper or a bit of 180G.


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## RogerP (4 Apr 2015)

For cheap planes I've found the wooden Taiwanese ones are incredibly good - and they don't have to be pulled. In fact I now use a range of them exclusively.


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## MIGNAL (4 Apr 2015)

That's what I mean by better alternatives! I have a couple of them. I actually use the little Taiwanese 'block Plane' frequently. In fact my Veritas Apron Plane just sits on the shelf gathering dust! 
I just wish they would offer another type of blade to HSS. In fact I'm pretty sure my little Plane is something like O1. . . and a very good blade it is too.


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## Carl P (4 Apr 2015)

What's the make/supplier for these Taiwanese planes? Not that I need more planes of course!

Cheerio,

Carl


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## RogerP (4 Apr 2015)

Workshop Heaven, Rutlands, eBay and others.


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## MIGNAL (4 Apr 2015)

Mujingfang. Workshop heaven do them, although not my small 'block' type Plane. It was extremely cheap direct from Hong kong but I did have to make a new wedge and work a bit on the chute. 
I recently bought a Mujingfang 'Jack' plane from WH and it's very well made. It has an expensive feel to it but then again it's made from Ebony. I really just had to sharpen the blade and work a touch on the sole. That's normal for any wooden Plane. Mostly I've used it on the pull stroke, which is fine with medium density hardwoods. Harder wood like Bubinga and Ebony I push it, but that could be down to me not being accustomed to pulling planes. The HSS blades are hard to sharpen, so you have to spend much more time with the fine stuff. Of course the edge lasts much longer, so you both lose and gain. I can't get them _quite_ as sharp as carbon blades but for the vast majority of purposes it matters not. Like many Japanese Planes they don't have chipbreakers, so you can't control tear out in the same manner as you can with Western style planes. That doesn't bother me. I don't use them as the ultimate smoother. If I'm getting some tearout I just use a metal bodied plane right at the end. 
I use wooden planes the vast majority of the time. The only one I don't really get on with is the traditional coffin smoother. For some reason I find it awkward to hold and use. All the other English style Planes are perfectly fine, as are the horn handled continental. Yes, I have far too many Planes. I could quite easily sell all my metal bodied planes and just keep one as a dedicated fine smoother. Maybe one day I will do that. . . 





I hope you like my rather brightly coloured Plane setting hammer. It's a 12 Oz deadblow and works very well as a setting hammer. Soft and a brass face. i think you can get them in more serene Black.


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## Carl P (4 Apr 2015)

Thanks for the info & picture - I have a hair comb the most hideous shade of green, I can always see it!

I also like wooden planes, not tried one of these yet but I will certainly look out for them now,

Cheerio,

Carl


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## Woodchips2 (4 Apr 2015)

That was an interesting video Andy. Thanks for sharing.

Even on industrial routers they were still taking several passes cutting the rebates.

Regards Keith


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## AndyT (4 Apr 2015)

Andy Kev.":1remchvf said:


> Finally, the weird metal-bodied plane.
> 
> I appreciate the phots are not up to much but I couldn't take the wooden planes out of the plastic wrapping.
> 
> What do you reckon to the metal thing, though? Ever seen anything like it?



Andy, and anyone wanting to see more of how bad this plane is without needing to buy one, there was a discussion about one of its siblings over on Lumberjocks a couple of years ago: http://lumberjocks.com/topics/46228 which has some more photos.

I think I can remember reading a similar discussion somewhere where a patient woodworker actually tried out one of these, but this was the nearest I could actually find.


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## sdjp (6 Apr 2015)

Andy Kev.":2lzz4hta said:


> Finally, the weird metal-bodied plane.



If anyone really wants to plumb the depths, you can get one with the 'Dekton' brand in the uk: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dekton-DT40210- ... B00EBRSHO4

I'm pretty sure that they all come out of the same factory; whichever yum-cha brand is on them…

Scarily enough, that's _not_ the cheapest 'new' plane I've seen - I've actually one that cost less (a wooden apron plane) en-route … I'm pretty sure it'll take some fettling to get operational, but I'm curious to see just how bad it might be… I'm pretty sure that it's made in a similar factory environment, except I suspect at the price this is one that escaped via the 'reject' chute.


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## Andy Kev. (19 Apr 2015)

Apologies for taking so long to getting around to writing this but try as I might, I couldn't find the cable for connecting the camera to the laptop until five mins ago.

First of all, the construction of the plane. The main part from which the sole and the body are formed look to be made from a single piece of sheet metal (2 mm thick) which has been bent to give the plane a “U” cross section. The sides are at 91° to the sole i.e. they lean in a bit towards the long axis of the tool. The frog appears to be welded in place. The whole plane weighs 608 gm (just a bit over 1 lb). It's 
9 1/2" long and 2" wide.

There are two main problems with the sole. First, it looks as though someone started to mill it flat but got bored and left off half way through the job (see photo). This is baffling. Why start such a job and not finish it? The only solution I can come up with is that somebody has costed milling time and each plane gets x seconds, whether it needs it or not.






Second the mouth for the iron appears to have been stamped out of the metal sheet by stamping down towards the sole. I have come to this conclusion because holding a straight edge to the sole shows a gap between either the rear or the front of the plane and the mouth. In other words you can form two triangles: rear, mouth, straight edge, or front, mouth, straight edge. This of course means that you can plane with the nose of the plane and the iron touching the wood or the rear and the iron touching the wood. The stamping out is most prominent at the sides of the mouth and this probably explains the chewed up surface of the wood (pine).






The iron is essentially like an oversized spokeshave cutter. I sharpened it up without too much difficulty but all I got on a piece of pine was the roughest shavings and lots of tearout and I think this can be attributed to the stamping out of the mouth. Adjustment of the iron is via two screws (again as per a spokeshave) but I could not adjust it to get any kind of decent results. You can see from the pic that the iron is on a par with the sole in terms of manufacture.






The cap is made of thin pressed metal with a plastic-headed screw tightener. In my hands it had two settings: too loose or rock hard. 

Conclusion: As it stands this tool is in my opinion useless in that it does not function as a plane. It might be that somebody with the necessary expertise could fettle it so that it could produce some kind of worthwhile results although I would be surprised if that could be done. The best use I can see for it would be to remove the iron and re-employ it in a homemade spokeshave.

So all in all a waste of €20 to anybody who is on the lookout for a plane although for purely investigative purposes like this, that could be regarded as money well spent if one wishes to know just how low manufacturers can sink. My initial reaction was to laugh it off but after a moment’s though I became a bit angry. Just imagine if a young kid gets the idea to take an interest in woodwork and asks his parents for a toolkit for his birthday. Suppose they know nothing about tools and see this plane (at what they think is an affordable price) in the DIY supermarket and they buy it for him in all innocence. The kid would end up bitterly disappointed and possibly put off woodworking for life.

I am no tool expert but the above is written in the light of my experience gained from using high quality planes. What I think would be interesting would be if anybody on here who does have the necessary expertise would be prepared to work on the thing to get the best possible performance out of it and then report the results. Any takers?


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## AndyT (19 Apr 2015)

Andy, thanks for taking the time and trouble to prove what many of us will have suspected.
I think this plane will be the perfect companion piece to the "saw shaped object" I reviewed here:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/saws-don-t-go-this-low-t74628.html


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