# New member needing advice on 1st scroll saw purchase!



## McCol (29 Jul 2013)

Hi all.

First post and looking for advice on buying a scroll saw for my partner. She currently buys pre made shapes of boats, beach huts and various other things. She then decorates them and sells them on at fairs or to friends and family. Over the last few weeks she has looked at buying a scroll saw to make her own shapes. After some research I am asking here as I am a bit muddled by it all!!

She was given advice on buying a variable speed saw with a slow speed option of around 400, and the ability to easily change blades. We have a budget of around £200-300 and would rather buy new. The shapes she has been buying have a thickness of around 15-25mm and dont seem overly intricate. I've looked at a couple on amazon such as the Draper 22791 which retails for £130 and a Proxxon on Axminster that is 2 speed and is around £190.

Can someone point me in the right direction.


----------



## mac1012 (29 Jul 2013)

if you can go another 100 hegner single speed will be the best for you money around 400 , why do you need a speed as low as 400 ? just curious as the woods you are cutting you wont need variable speed 

mark


----------



## McCol (29 Jul 2013)

mac1012":2pa2plb1 said:


> if you can go another 100 hegner single speed will be the best for you money around 400 , why do you need a speed as low as 400 ? just curious as the woods you are cutting you wont need variable speed
> 
> mark



Thanks for the reply.

Not sure really, was advice given to my partner at a craft fair where she had a stall. The chap who gave the advice is a wood turner, he adviced the variable speed with a slow setting of 400. He sells bigger pieces of driftwood carved/shaped into objects. 
My partner didnt want to take just his advice as he is using his tools for different kinds of work but it is all new to her(and me!). Looked at the Hegner but may be just out of our budget.


----------



## scrimper (29 Jul 2013)

Why not look out on ebay for a second-hand Hegner? Far better than buying a new cheaper machine.

Some of the really cheap saws are more likely to put one off using a fretsaw/scrollsaw for good whereas a machine like the Hegner are an absolute joy to use, in fact when I first bought my Hegner I could not walk past it without having a 'go' on it, many years later I still really enjoy using it.

IMHO Variable speed is very useful especially when doing very intricate cuts on thinner woods I find it gives me more control. It is also good for people not used to using a scroll saw.


----------



## Chippygeoff (30 Jul 2013)

There is some very sound advice here. Whatever you do, please do not buy the draper scroll saw or one like it. They are terrible to work with and it is so frustrating, some will not take pinless blades and the noise they make is awful. A second hand Hegner will beat all those other saws with flying colours and they are a joy to work with. Variable speed is a nice addition to a saw but not the end of the world if you end up with a single speed.


----------



## Bryan Bennett (30 Jul 2013)

Hi Mcol welcome to the site that will give you very good advice on scroll saws.I am in full agreement with Geoff,if you can get a second hand Hegner it will be worth waiting for,I am the proud owner of the Multicut 1,it only has a single speed and you would be surprised the projects that can be achieved.

Bryan


----------



## ChrisR (30 Jul 2013)

Hi McCol.

As others have said above, try to stretch your budget, if you can to a Hegner, you will never regret buying it, and if you no longer had a use for it, reselling would not be a problem. Unlike the cheaper saws, which you would find difficult to even give away. (hammer) 

Take care, welcome to the site, and have fun scrolling.

Chris R.


----------



## M P Hales (31 Jul 2013)

Hi and welcome

When I first started scrolling I started with a Scheppach decoflex scrollsaw which was an absolute pain to do internal cuts with and shook my bench like you wouldn't believe.
Within 4-5 weeks I upgraded to a Hegner and the difference is unbelievable
As has been said above if you can be patient and either save up for a new Hegner or get a second hand one it's worth the wait as the cheaper scrollsaws are a pain to use and are more likely to put you off than give any enjoyment or good results :!: 

As I made the mistake of not heeding advise from the forum members and bought the cheaper machine then regretted it PLEASE don't make the same mistake.

BUY CHEAP BUY TWICE :!: :!: 

M


----------



## McCol (31 Jul 2013)

Thanks for all the replies folks.

Going to keep an on fleabay for a Hegner or possibly buy a new one. I assume the multicut 1 model would be suffice for my partners needs?


----------



## McCol (1 Aug 2013)

My partner has been reading about Excalibur saws, any disadvantages to this compared to the hegner?


----------



## ChrisR (1 Aug 2013)

I think the Excalibur is a fairly substantial saw, I have not used one, but a friend of mine purchased one, after practising scrolling on my Hegner, he is pleased in general with it, but was disappointed with the blade clamps, as the clamping screw threads had failed. He is a busy GP, so have not seen him to see if the problem has been resolved. 

The Excalibur is not inexpensive, I think there price is very close to the Hegner, and without being biased I don’t think they are in the same league, sorry to Excalibur owners, no offence intended . #-o 

One big advantage, the Excalibur is distributed by Axminster Tools, whose customer service is second to none. =D> 

Take care.

Chris R.


----------



## ChrisR (2 Aug 2013)

McCol.

If you were thinking of getting an Excalibur Scroll Saw, definitely have a look on Axminsters site.

As a regular customer of Axminster, I get Emails on their special offers, (along with many others, not just me), they are now offering three years warranty on a lot of equipment, including Excalibur scroll saw, I don’t know if it relates to all of the Excalibur models, but I would think it is well worth checking out.

I dare not go to their site, or I will end up purchasing something, very little will power, when it comes to tools/equipment. #-o 

Take care.

Chris R.


----------



## bugbear (2 Aug 2013)

McCol":ub7az5e9 said:


> ...buying a scroll saw for my partner. She currently buys pre made shapes of boats, beach huts and various other things. She then decorates them and sells them on at fairs or to friends and family. Over the last few weeks she has looked at buying a scroll saw to make her own shapes. ... The shapes she has been buying have a thickness of around 15-25mm and dont seem overly intricate.



The more detail you can provide the better the answers here will be - can you link to the kind of shapes she's currently buying, or upload some photos?

BugBear


----------



## mac1012 (3 Aug 2013)

I wouldn't worry to much about what shapes its more about the thickness and what wood I have hegner multicut 1 had for three years and I make stuff to sell at craft fairs 

I have cut between 4 and 40mm on the saw but I feel for the multicut one it is most comfortable with around 25mm = 30 mm thickness max I have cut thin ply with single speed and some fairly detailed scrolling I guess variable might come in handy if you where doing thin wood and very intricate patterns but you can cover most things with single speed as its all about correct blade and control.

if I had the money , well I have the money but I saving for other power tools I need I would have multicut 2 and maybe one day I will upgrade

have a look at this link which may answer some of your questions about variable speed 

http://www.hegner.co.uk/Heg_Variable_Speed


I have heard good and bad about Excalibur you do seem to get a lot of bang for your buck but I think some of components are poor quality that let it down also to me it seems to have a lot of features but with more design there more chance for things to go wrong

the hegner is simple but engineered well and reliable 

mark


----------



## Chippygeoff (3 Aug 2013)

I would not buy an excalibur. I had one and it lasted 3 months. The blade clamps are the worst design I have ever seen, you take pot luck where the blade is when you put it in the clamp, it dissapears in a dark void and you guess its in the right place. The tension lever will keep popping over as you saw. The wiring ischeap rubbish and the table coating last 2 minutes and then looks ugly. It is vastly over priced and uses the cheapest materials and on top of all that its made in China. The Hegner is the bees knees.


----------



## McCol (5 Aug 2013)

Here is a pic of the kind of things my partner has been buying pre made.




image by McCol1, on Flickr

As well as the Hegner also been looking at an Axminster machine that retails around £390, any thoughts on that model?

Thanks for the replies so far, have been very helpful.


----------



## mac1012 (6 Aug 2013)

did you get my message about the scroll saw on here for sale ?

mark


----------



## McCol (16 Aug 2013)

mac1012":1t8yz8a3 said:


> did you get my message about the scroll saw on here for sale ?
> 
> mark


 
Yes I did Mark, thanks for the info but decided on a Hegner.


----------



## McCol (16 Aug 2013)

Well after all the great advice I have bought a Hegner Multicut 1 from ebay. Bit unsure if I've done the right thing though! It cost me £250 and postage on top but comes with a few extras but there is no blades with it, hoping it is straight forward to get going. My partner and me are totally new to this.

Here is the one I bought - http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11050.m4 ... AGB%3A1123


----------



## mac1012 (16 Aug 2013)

looks nice have you received it yet ?? it is the newer model not sure whats happening with the dust blower flexi pipe but they are cheap to get , good buy if it works ok as you got some good extras foot pedal , hold down clamp etc only thing that puzzles me is that the seller has relisted another one but it is exactly the same pic and description as yours ?

mark


----------



## mac1012 (16 Aug 2013)

the message above the ended listing says he has relisted this item ? 

hope you get it ok mate


----------



## McCol (16 Aug 2013)

mac1012":13b0kqrj said:


> the message above the ended listing says he has relisted this item ?
> 
> hope you get it ok mate



I asked him before making payment and he said he had 2 models with same extras etc. If it goes pear shaped I paid using a credit card through paypal so should be covered.


----------



## McCol (20 Aug 2013)

Well the Hegner turned up and all seems ok.
Need to a blade/s to test it properly.

The air dust hose was missing though and I've emailed the seller to see if he has it to send on to me. If he doesnt and I need to buy does anybody know where I can source one and for how much. I cant seem to find one on the Hegner site and cant find any on Google.


----------



## mac1012 (20 Aug 2013)

you need to be more specific as to which part as there is lots of pieces to the whole extraction set up , if you mean the blue flexi hose give them a ring at hegner I sure they can sort you out 

as in my earlier post I did notice straight away it didn't look right ! but if everything else you have got is ok you still done well

any pics you can post ?

mark


----------



## martinka (20 Aug 2013)

Just in case he hasn't got the blower hose, you can buy a segmented hose very cheap off ebay. You will also need some straight hose to connect the bellows to the segmented piece, then you can possibly connect it to the long ally hold down arm. I made a bracket and bolted it to the 8mm thread that's already in the arm, but tiewraps would do the job too.


----------



## McCol (20 Aug 2013)

mac1012":hkb85w55 said:


> you need to be more specific as to which part as there is lots of pieces to the whole extraction set up , if you mean the blue flexi hose give them a ring at hegner I sure they can sort you out
> 
> as in my earlier post I did notice straight away it didn't look right ! but if everything else you have got is ok you still done well
> 
> ...



Here are 3 pics of the Hegner(excuse the clutter around it!)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... x/?saved=1

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... /lightbox/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... /lightbox/

Posted these on ipad and can't seem show pics, only the links.


----------



## mac1012 (20 Aug 2013)

ok on the first pic on the top arm near the back on the left side (when facing the saw) there is a fixing that should have a spring assembly (circular) don't confuse this with the large spring right at the back which is the tensioning spring for blade , on the fixing there is a small threaded hole that is to fix the bracket for the dust blower assembly 

as far as I can see you are missing the bracket and allen screw then the clear pipe that runs from the bellows to the bracket and then the blue flexi pipe from the bracket to the blade also there will be some connectors on the bracket that the clear hose and the blue flexi pipe connect to I think 

as I said your best bet if you don't want to bodge it is contact hegner I am sure they will sell you the whole assembley which prob will be in the 20-40 pound range for a guess

mark


----------



## mac1012 (20 Aug 2013)

unless martin can come up with a solution for you with his engineering magic (hammer)


----------



## martinka (20 Aug 2013)

Good guess Mark, a retrofit kit is 32 quid. Doing it my way would probably cost a fiver. The flexy segmented pipes are available on Ebay for 1.99 although you have to wait for them to come from China
I don't know about the retrofit one but the original as far as I can see will blow the dust towards the operator. My setup blows it to the side or back.


----------



## martinka (20 Aug 2013)

I just noticed the tension rod retaining brackets appear to be missing. There should be one top and bottom at the back end of each arm. Parts 11, 34 & 39

edit: Looks like the vac connector is missing too.


----------



## mac1012 (20 Aug 2013)

the retro ones do you mean the replacement kit on hegner ? they only sell the old style set up which was available until 2010 after that it is the blue flexi pipe on hegners I think including mine not sure some models may have old system but as you say the blue pipe blows away to side , although I havemy blue flexi pipe fixed to dust extractor so sucks up through the blue pipe and under table , you re-connect pipe from the bellows to the plastic connector at front of machine , having used this I couldn't go back to just blowing the dust away 

another good thing now is the base model has quick release tension lever although it is at back of machine the older base models didn't have that 

mark


----------



## mac1012 (20 Aug 2013)

I don't know martin to me it looks like those two brackets you mention are in place ? also there is a metal panel missing on left hand side and as you say the dust collection assembley at the front


----------



## martinka (20 Aug 2013)

mac1012":26dhym5x said:


> I don't know martin to me it looks like those two brackets you mention are in place ? also there is a metal panel missing on left hand side and as you say the dust collection assembley at the front


With a bit more squinting, I'd say the bottom one is there, but not the top one. Looking through all the parts diagrams, some don't show a top bracket, so maybe that was standard on earlier machines.

The retrofit kit appears to be a flexi pipe setup that fits where the original fitted. I can't find it now, but I think it's just the same as what's supplied with the post 2010 Multicut 1.

I find that if I use the blower as a sucker, it's too near to the job and gets in my way when cuts are close to each other when cutting portraits and I need my fingers close to the blade.

Martin.


----------



## McCol (20 Aug 2013)

Thanks for all the help guys, really is useful as a complete novice at this.

I can take better quality pictures on my camera tomorrow, I used the ipad earlier to take the photos and they are not the best quality.

From what you can see from the current pictures, should I be looking at a refund? I have asked the seller for a partial refund to cover the cost of the dust blow pipe as it was advertised in the listing.


----------



## mac1012 (21 Aug 2013)

well the refund descision is up to you mate , but I wouldn't cut your nose of to spite your face  

first thing is it working ? put a blade in and cut a line check for any knocking sounds , put the machine on a solid hard floor and push down on the table while it is running, this will stop any natural vibration, this will stop you doing it on a kitchen work surface and it jumping about and then messaging us to say why is it vibrating  (only kidding) but there will be a bit of vibration unless it bolted down , now if all seems ok I urge you to ring hegner get a price on the parts you need the dust blower assembley for the NEW type of machine and the metal cover and dust vacuum assembley , if you not sure google hegner and click images and you will see whats missing but remember your blower pipes is for newer model have a look at hegner for parts and spares diagram too 

then argue for a refund based on that with ebay , on the face of it you could have a 400 pound machine plus the extras which are well over 100 pound so you got a value of over 500 if all brought new IF IF the machine works ok 

if you send back I think you will have to stand for the postage I think ? though not sure plus all the hassle of doing it , it could be as simple as few parts , refund for parts, = a working hegner 

mark


----------



## martinka (21 Aug 2013)

McCol":1dcmlmkk said:


> Thanks for all the help guys, really is useful as a complete novice at this.
> 
> I can take better quality pictures on my camera tomorrow, I used the ipad earlier to take the photos and they are not the best quality.
> 
> From what you can see from the current pictures, should I be looking at a refund? I have asked the seller for a partial refund to cover the cost of the dust blow pipe as it was advertised in the listing.



Better photos all round would help.
Is there a manufacture date on any of the stickers on the saw?
If all the blower and suction parts are missing, which they seem to be, parts from Hegner would be over £50, but you can do it much cheaper. What appears to be a blower pipe is shown in the photo on ebay, but you obviously didn't get it. Maybe it went with the other saw which he used the identical photo for.
As it is, you appear to have a working saw, though you need to run it to confirm that, and I see Mark has just posted about that

Martin.


----------



## mac1012 (21 Aug 2013)

http://www.hegner.co.uk/common/support/ ... inder.aspx


the link above takes you to the spares diagram for your machine 

the parts you are missing (I think ) are 

dust blower : 514,600,601,602,603

dust vac assembly 163, 510, 516,517

I think that is all the parts , hope this helps , I guess it all depends how much for the parts but you wont know that unless you email or ring HEGNER !!!! (hammer) sorry just a subtle hint  

update, you are not missing the front cover but you need the bolt assembley that part 163 fixes too and I cant identify that correctly 

mark


----------



## McCol (21 Aug 2013)

Don't really want the hassle of chasing up a refund. I priced the extras that came with the Hegner and they seem to be worth a couple of hundred so I don't mind spending a little to get it up to scratch.

Will be testing when some blades arrive which will hopefully be today or tomorrow. 

Will also be ringing Hegner either this afternoon or tomorrow, bit difficult this week as I'm on nights for 2 weeks and sleep till late afternoon but will be ringing them.

I'll post better photos this evening before going to work.


----------



## ChrisR (21 Aug 2013)

The flexible jointed blue air pipe with orange ends, as shown in the photo of Martins saw, may be available from a medical equipment supplier, as I understand this type of flexible, jointed tubing was originally developed for the medical profession, I dread to think what the medical use/application is. :shock: 

Just a thought, and I doubt the medical tubing is blue, probably colourless. 

Take care.

Chris R.


----------



## martinka (21 Aug 2013)

ChrisR":1awn4h3q said:


> The flexible jointed blue air pipe with orange ends, as shown in the photo of Martins saw, may be available from a medical equipment supplier, as I understand this type of flexible, jointed tubing was originally developed for the medical profession, I dread to think what the medical use/application is. :shock:
> 
> Just a thought, and I doubt the medical tubing is blue, probably colourless.
> 
> ...



Chris,

They are mostly sold as coolant hoses these days, for lathes and mills, etc. These are the ones I bought
This is the cheapest I found.

Martin.


----------



## ChrisR (21 Aug 2013)

Martin.
I have a length of this tubing in my workshop, that came from the mechanical engineers workshop at the last place I worked, it was probably used there for the lathe or metal saw cooling fluid, I intended using it on my lathe, but have never got around to it. 

Many years ago I carried out electrical engineering work, at the company that developed the (peristaltic pump) as used in kidney dialysis machines, that is were I may have seen this jointed tubing used, but not sure on that one. The memory is getting old and dull. :roll: 

Had a look at the tubing from your link, and for anyone wanting some, I would think that is a very keen price. 
The only problem it’s Ebay.


Take care.

Chris R.


----------



## richard56 (21 Aug 2013)

I have ordered a pack of 6. I want to replace the one in my saw. This means I will have 5 over anyone wanting one give me a shout.


----------



## martinka (21 Aug 2013)

Be prepared for a wait, Richard, it took just short of two weeks for mine to arrive.
Martin.


----------



## McCol (21 Aug 2013)

I phoned Hegner this morning with the part numbers provided by mac1012(Cheers) and total cost was around the £35 mark. 
Emailed the seller on ebay to suggest a partial refund to cover this and he has since emailed to say that he is posting the part out to me so hopefully all will be well. 
Hoping blades arrive tomorrow so we can test the scroll saw. Will post some more pics up in a wee bit which hopefully show the machine in more detail.


----------



## richard56 (22 Aug 2013)

martinka":b16ob2si said:


> Be prepared for a wait, Richard, it took just short of two weeks for mine to arrive.
> Martin.



I think they estimated 2 Weeks.
I'm not in a hurry.


----------



## McCol (22 Aug 2013)

Ok here are some more pics of the Hegner, 

1
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9564568229/

2
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9564407903/

3
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/9567192190/


Still not the best of shots but didnt have time to take and transfer from my camera, these were taken from my phone.

Seems like it is a 2008 model.

Just want to thank everybody again, some forums can be quite daunting for newbie's like myself. I often answer questions on gadget type forums and sometimes people can be quite rude and unhelpful but have been impressed with the help and guidance i've been given here.


----------



## martinka (22 Aug 2013)

Can't see underneath so hopefully the bottom clamp is there, along with its retainer. Assuming they are there, you have a working saw, and your body has a built in blower.  I notice the hole for the blower pipe in the bellows base is pointing to the back. If it's difficult to get the blower pipe in, you can lift the bellows from the base and inside is an Allen screw which you can loosen and allow you to turn the base.

Martin.


----------



## McCol (25 Aug 2013)

Just a wee update.

The dust blower arrived yesterday as did the blades I ordered.

Although I will need to buy a couple of parts the machine works perfectly, not as noisy as we thought it would be and fitting the blade was fairly straight forward. My other half really likes the foot pedal as it feels like an easy transition from sewing machine to scroll saw for her!

Now just need to buy a table, any advice? Don't really want to spend over £100 on the table Hegner sell so looking for good alternatives.


----------



## martinka (25 Aug 2013)

If you haven't already got something you can use, build a strong and solid table, you don't need the Hegner table. The Hegner will run smoothly bolted to practically anything, but the beefier the better to soak up the vibration. Bolt it to the table using either the three 10mm (maybe 8mm, I forgot) threaded holes or the two straight through holes in the base.


----------



## Reggie (25 Aug 2013)

I found out today why the scrollsaw needs properly fixing to a bench, I was using a magnifier, I was staring so intently at the blade and wondering why I was having to increase the angle to keep on line, it turns out that the front of the saw was slowly creeping across the bench moving, so had to compensate for the wood moving in an arc, well, until I spotted that the front was moving 

I wonder if shelf liner will be enough to stop it moving or if I really need to bolt it to something?


----------



## martinka (25 Aug 2013)

Reggie":2livnt82 said:


> I found out today why the scrollsaw needs properly fixing to a bench, I was using a magnifier, I was staring so intently at the blade and wondering why I was having to increase the angle to keep on line, it turns out that the front of the saw was slowly creeping across the bench moving, so had to compensate for the wood moving in an arc, well, until I spotted that the front was moving
> 
> I wonder if shelf liner will be enough to stop it moving or if I really need to bolt it to something?



If it's moving there is far too much vibration, you will notice a big difference if you bolt it down. If you need it to be movable, bolt it to a hefty piece of timber that you can then clamp to the bench and then remove as needed.
Before I bought the Hegner, I drilled and tapped the 1/4" steel benchtop so that I could bolt the Jet straight to the bench.


----------

