# Newbie, it's not as easy as it looks!



## zodiac (19 Dec 2012)

Hi,

I recently picked up a Ferm 400 scrollsaw which I know is a cheapie but I thought would be ok to have a go with initially.

Upon firing it up, I soon realised that it's not something you can get the hang of in 5 minutes!! In particular though, there seems to be two main issues:

1) The machine does vibrate more than I'd like, which I have read it does since I bought it. I haven't bolted it down it is just sitting on a bench at the moment. Is there a way to reduce the machine's natural vibration? As well as moving the wood I have to exert downward pressure which is probably making it harder than it needs to be.

2) The blade is at a perfect 90 degrees from horizontal ... until it touches any wood  ... the blade kind of twists and I end up turning the piece of work to an angle to compensate. The blade seems perfect and I have reseated the pinned ends in case there was debris in there. Help!

I'm sure there will be other problems, but there are a couple for now!

Hi all by the way 

z.


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## Mike M (20 Dec 2012)

The 3 basics are; good tension. it looks you do not have enough. The blade should not move side ways more than 1/8" and that is almost too much. Second, you need good speed, with good speed you have much better control over the blade. Third, push very slow into the blade or the blade will grab the wood and you will loose control over the blade. Let the blade do the cutting they say.

I forgot to tell that most blade will cut to the right, to stay on the line you have to move the wood some degree to the right to stay on the line.
FD Mike


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## Waka (20 Dec 2012)

I'm a newbie as well and have experienced some of what you are saying. I have my saw bolted down, I found this makes a real difference. Blade tension is also important, my book says tighten until it twangs like a piano wire.
If the wood is lifting a lot as you saw, make sure you have the blade in the right way. My first time is wasn't and it kept lifting. 
One of my books says that you mustn't put too much pressure in holding the wood down as this tends to move the blade sideways.

You are right though, its not as easy as it looks, I've only been doing it for just over a month, and try and get an hour a day practice, very slowly I'm getting there, but like anything it will be along time before I can come close to matching anything on here.

There is one consolation though, I haven't broken any blades yet, so I must be doing something right.

There are a lot of really experienced scrollers on here who I'm surer will be along offering advice.


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## zodiac (20 Dec 2012)

Someone told me blade tension so I tightened it up all the way, still the blade twists 

I'm doing something wrong surely!


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## Chippygeoff (20 Dec 2012)

You are right, its not as easy as it looks, it takes weeks sometimes just to get the basics sorted out. As Mike said, you need good blade tension. Cut thin material to start with. Draw lines on a piece of plywood or something else and try to follow the line, you will get there eventually. Having a good machine helps as well as getting good blades. Mikes workshop is the place for blades and advice. Have a look at my facebook page, wooden crafts from Wales and see the sort of things you can make using a scroll saw. I wish you all the best.


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## zodiac (23 Dec 2012)

Mine seems to go left not right! There is more than 1/8" of movement in the blade too, even with the tension screwed up all the way, this may be most of the problem. As it is a cheap machine, I doubt it has any kind of adjustment but I'll pull it apart and see what I can do about it.

How much should I have spent to get a machine worth owning?


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## Mike M (23 Dec 2012)

zodiac, did you see what I edited in my post?
Most blades have burr on the right side what makes them cut to the right.
FD Mike


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## Shootinfishin (24 Dec 2012)

Even my old cheap and cheerful Clarke machine isn't that bad!


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## Gill (24 Dec 2012)

zodiac":hzdeloqc said:


> As well as moving the wood I have to exert downward pressure which is probably making it harder than it needs to be.


At the risk of sounding as if I'm wisecracking, have you checked that the blade is the right way up? It wouldn't be the first time a newbie has inserted a blade with the teeth up instead of down.



zodiac":hzdeloqc said:


> The blade is at a perfect 90 degrees from horizontal ... until it touches any wood  ... the blade kind of twists and I end up turning the piece of work to an angle to compensate.


That sounds very odd. If it's a new machine, I would contact the retailer (Screwfix, I presume).



zodiac":hzdeloqc said:


> How much should I have spent to get a machine worth owning?


You'd probably have to spend a darned sight more than the cost of a Ferm! If you can get to Tredegar Park or a branch of Axminster across the Severn you should be able to see demonstrations of some decent saws. Other than that, good secondhand saws such as Diamonds, Deltas and Hegners often go for reasonable prices on auction websites.


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## zodiac (4 Jan 2013)

Chippygeoff":21m1689m said:


> You are right, its not as easy as it looks, it takes weeks sometimes just to get the basics sorted out. As Mike said, you need good blade tension. Cut thin material to start with. Draw lines on a piece of plywood or something else and try to follow the line, you will get there eventually. Having a good machine helps as well as getting good blades. Mikes workshop is the place for blades and advice. Have a look at my facebook page, wooden crafts from Wales and see the sort of things you can make using a scroll saw. I wish you all the best.



Added your fb page, nice work on there


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## zodiac (4 Jan 2013)

Gill, I bought the saw second hand. It did actually have the teeth pointing up when I bought it too, quickly sorted that out!


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## zodiac (1 May 2013)

Back at the scrollsaw now it's not freezing in the shed anymore, still the blade skews 

From mikes workshop:

"The feed rate is VERY important. DO NOT push the wood through too fast. Work slowly with a gentle pressure. If your blade is bowing under the pressure, you're moving too fast! "

Maybe this is half the problem? I'll have to try this and see if it makes much difference.


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## Bryan Bennett (1 May 2013)

Hi Zodiac welcome to a great website,you are lucky to have found this site .I am 75 and I was fortunate to have found in January,I am still learning,I have a cheap saw and a Hegner,I am going to get the blade clamps from Axminster when they get them in stock to convert it to pinless blades.Maybe that would stop the blades from twisting.
One thing that I am sure of is that between the lads and lassies that are on site you problem will be solved.

Bryan


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## stevebuk (2 May 2013)

when i am sitting at my scrollsaw i sit slightly to the right of it as i find this is the best place for me to get straight lines, once it starts going straight i keep the fingers of my left hand pressed against the table and feed with my right hand and it never moves from straight until its finished..


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## zodiac (2 May 2013)

Cheers Steve, I'll try that too. The saw might just be a heap of rubbish, but I'd like to find out it's not rather than give up on it!

Out of interest, what make blades does everyone use? So far I've tried Silverline which behave the same as the couple of blades that I got with the saw when I bought it second hand. They were the cheapest, maybe they are just junk?


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## Chippygeoff (3 May 2013)

Blades from silverline are c**p. The best blades are Flyin Dutchman from Mikes workshop, especially the ultra reverse. If you were to use one of these blades you would not believe the difference to a silverline blade. It will transform your scroll sawing experience.


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## martinka (3 May 2013)

Chippygeoff":3i4ug0rh said:


> Blades from silverline are c**p. The best blades are Flyin Dutchman from Mikes workshop, especially the ultra reverse. If you were to use one of these blades you would not believe the difference to a silverline blade. It will transform your scroll sawing experience.



Aren't FD blades actually Niqua blades? Seems strange to me to send to America for blades made in Germany. Not that I know how easy/difficult it is to buy them here, or how the price compares. It'd be interesting to find out.

Martin.


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## powertools (3 May 2013)

I know nothing about F D blades but I needed some blades as I only had a few that came with the saw and I ordered the yellow ones from Hobbies and they are Niqua blades and they have transformed my work.

http://www.alwayshobbies.com/brands/niqua


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## bugbear (3 May 2013)

A lot of the well informed people here are talking about the "right" tension, proper feed rates and all.

This strikes me as the sort of information best conveyed via video rather than words; can any of the experienced people point to a (probably youtube) video of basic good practise?

BugBear


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## loftyhermes (3 May 2013)

martinka":2toc2lqr said:


> Chippygeoff":2toc2lqr said:
> 
> 
> > Blades from silverline are c**p. The best blades are Flyin Dutchman from Mikes workshop, especially the ultra reverse. If you were to use one of these blades you would not believe the difference to a silverline blade. It will transform your scroll sawing experience.
> ...


Martin, I've found that in the USA they have a larger choice of blades and sometimes it can be cheaper postage from America than in the UK. Hobbies is only £1.95 a gross postage for Niqua blades but they don't have a big selection of blade types, then there's Original Marquetry who want £8.95 a gross postage for Niqua blades, Woodworks craft supplies want £6.95 a gross postage for Olson blades, Axminster want £4.94 postage for Pegas blades. Flyingdutchman blades can be ordered easily and posted from the USA for $3 (£1.95 approx.) a gross, though at that price it can take up to 2 weeks to arrive. So you pays your money and takes your choice.
happy scrolling
Steve


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## mac1012 (3 May 2013)

niqua for me I order from hegner cheap postage and here next day good selection well all I ever need olsen blades are good too 

Bugbear any chance of you posting a video ? 

mark


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## bugbear (3 May 2013)

mac1012":2usesql0 said:


> niqua for me I order from hegner cheap postage and here next day good selection well all I ever need olsen blades are good too
> 
> Bugbear any chance of you posting a video ?
> 
> mark



Given my comparative ignorance, I would struggle to tell good advice from bad.

Trouble is, it seems reasonable that the people who DO know a lot don't normally watch beginner videos to form an opinion :-(

BugBear


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## mac1012 (3 May 2013)

Also I find it is as easy as it looks :lol: 

The first piece I ever cut I sold a few days later 

I got a hegner looked at vids on internet then had a go like I said its not rocket science most of the work posted on here is within easy reach of most people.

good machine good blades machine bolted down = a good start, a poor machine poor blades and not bolted down = making it harder than it needs to be.

its just practice cut just clear of line and there is nothing that cannot be feckled with a sander needle file or a piece of sandpaper.

if you have a good machine and good blade clamping system and quick release then blade tensioning is easy and straight forward not something that causes you a load of hassle.

I could never pick up say life like woodcarving of a bird as easy as I have scroll sawing or accurate dovetail joints on a hand made box , scrolling is one of the easiest mediums with wood to work with and you can make good work out of cheap wood 

lets not make it into a dark mysterious art because in my opinion it isn't

mark


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## zodiac (3 May 2013)

Chippygeoff":md0vgnxf said:


> Blades from silverline are c**p. The best blades are Flyin Dutchman from Mikes workshop, especially the ultra reverse. If you were to use one of these blades you would not believe the difference to a silverline blade. It will transform your scroll sawing experience.



I thought they might be a bit pants maybe. FD only make pinless blades though if I remember rightly from Mike's workshop website, I need pins. I have a friend who uses draper blades and he says they don't bend or twist for him, he lives hundreds of miles away though so I can't try his blades on my saw or vice versa


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## mac1012 (3 May 2013)

also there is loads of stuff on net for patterns the reindeer on scroll saw workshop is a good beginners project I did the adult one and tweaked it by putting a smile and red nose on it sold loads at Christmas

loads of stuff on here 

(hammer) 
http://fssp-arpop.blogspot.co.uk/
http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.co.uk/


print of the pattern get some prit stick extra strong (don't waste your money on mount spray which is messy expensive and has strong fumes) stick the pattern on and away you go


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## mac1012 (3 May 2013)

Bugbear I not sure I understand your point but there is loads on the net that are far better than anything I could post 

scroll saw workshop is excellent resource on youtube or on his site 


mark


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## Gill (4 May 2013)

Scrolling is not a science, it's a craft. No matter how much advice an experienced scroller tries to pass on to a novice, improvements in technique will only come when new blades, different stroke speeds, different types and thicknesses of wood are attempted. I always think it's a bit like trying to use a potter's wheel - you need to stick your hands in the clay and get to know both your materials and tools by actually making something.

For what it's worth, as a general rule I like to tension my blades so there is about 1 - 2 mm of lateral movement if you gently press your finger against the side of the blade. But who is to say that my idea of what is 'gentle pressure' is the same as everyone else's? Moreover, I might prefer a tighter tension and a slow stroke speed if I know I shall be making tight turns in thin wood with even grain whereas I might like to have a looser tension if I'm cutting sweeping curves in a 'woolly' piece of thick wood. You get a better feel for these aspects of scrolling the more wood you cut and the more blades you break  .


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## Chippygeoff (4 May 2013)

There is a world of difference between Niqua and FD blades. I have both. I have been using FD ultra reverse for about 3 years now and in my opinion are the best for the sort of things I make, they stay sharp for longer and I find it is easier to stay on the line than other blades I use. Some people just get used to a certain make or type of blade and stick with it. I have tried most makes, the worst blades I ever used were Olsens.


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## martinka (4 May 2013)

Chippygeoff":2qpj3z8l said:


> There is a world of difference between Niqua and FD blades. I have both. I have been using FD ultra reverse for about 3 years now and in my opinion are the best for the sort of things I make, they stay sharp for longer and I find it is easier to stay on the line than other blades I use. Some people just get used to a certain make or type of blade and stick with it. I have tried most makes, the worst blades I ever used were Olsens.



I wonder why there is a difference, when apparently the FD blades are simply the Niqua blades being sold under a different name? I think it unlikely that Niqua would make a completely different set of blades just for mikesworkshop to sell. Of course, I can't deny that what I think, and reality, are often very different. :mrgreen: 

Out of interest, Geoff, have you ever tried the Olson PGT blades? There's a big difference between those and the standard Olson blades.

The blade differences aside, I couldn't agree more that you should use whichever blade suits you, for the work you are doing, and I have no doubt some use more than one particular make of blade.

Martin.


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## Bryan Bennett (4 May 2013)

Hi Martin I have used F/D blades and have praised the excellence of the blades,I am currently using a P'egas blade Ref No 90.428 which is a Rev Skip No 3 13 tpi priced at £2 71 a doz.
In my opinion is probably as equal to F/D blades and may just have the edge.They follow the line very well and can do tight turns.I was in the Axminster Shop in Warrington the other day and noticed that they sold P'egas blades.

Bryan


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## Chippygeoff (5 May 2013)

Hi Martin. When I first started I never knew about FD blades and bought a selection pack of Olsen blades. I ended up throwing them away. I then tried the Niqua blades from Hobbies and these were great. I then bought some FD ultra reverse blades from Mikes workshop and these were even better. 95% of my work is cutting 18mm thick hardwoods and the FD blades are just brilliant for this. I was making regular calls to Hegner about my saw some months ago and we spoke about blades a few times and they sent me some samples of a new blade they were importing that is very comparable to FD blades. What I like about the FD-UR blades is that they have an indentatiuon neart the top so its easy to tell what way up they go, its just so convenient.


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## martinka (5 May 2013)

Hi Geoff,

I'll certainly be giving the FD blades a go as soon as the piggy bank fills up again. I'd really like to be able to cut these old stool tops and only the Olson PGT blades will touch them so far. I just noticed you always type 'Olsen' with an 'e' and was beginning to wonder if they were different to Olson.  I bought some packs of old new stock Eclipse blades from ebay before I knew any better. I was going to throw those away but they seem to work very well in the Jet saw for thinner stuff, so maybe I'll hang onto them. Using them in the Hegner is like using wet string. 

Martin.


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