# Craft fair fayre.



## johnny.t. (16 Jun 2009)

On the 27th of this month I have been roped into doing a 'rustic' fair by some friends who are helping to organise it. Although I've sold several pieces in the past(and given away many more) I've never put myself in the public eye before, so I am filled with trepidation.
Trouble is having only started turning last October, when I look at the things I made several months ago, that looked really good at the time,well they just don't now :shock: (the critical eye of improving at work).
So I've gone into production with my spare time as I need to fill a table........

I managed this lot yesterday, even with swelled up itchy hayfever eyes....









clcokwise from left to right, a rectangular sepele bowl, two cherry mushrooms,a small heavy mahogany bowl(along the lines of the one I posted last week), a footless/natural bottom bowl made from strawberry tree(given to me by a customer) and two oak spinning tops(one dyed with steel wool and vinegar).

JT


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## Paul.J (16 Jun 2009)

Looking good JT.
How about some egg cups,bangles,tea lighters,candle sticks,door stops,light pulls.


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## Bodrighy (16 Jun 2009)

Things that sell eaily at craft fairs:

Light pulls, mushrooms, keyrings, mice, hedgehogs, pens, small bowls, pencil pots. 
Things that draw admiring glances and 'I wish' from punters,

Larger bowls & platters, ornamental work, anything over about £20, goblets

If you can knock up a bowlfull each of the smaller things and have some of the nicer things to draw attention you may sell the more expensive ones but the smaller things are what will get the money. 

HTH

Pete


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## johnny.t. (16 Jun 2009)

Thanks chaps
Time for some dull turning then :roll: Mushrooms here I come...



Bodrighy":aijm9ycf said:


> If you can knock up a bowlfull each of the smaller things and have some of the nicer things to draw attention you may sell the more expensive ones but the smaller things are what will get the money. Pete



Thats what I figured Pete, still should be a giggle on the day and as long as we get the price of the table (only £5 I think) then I've wasted nothing but a Saturday :lol: 

JT


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## petercharlesfagg (16 Jun 2009)

That quality of turning in only a few months! The turning world had better keep its eyes peeled for more excellent works!

I have attended hundreds of shows in the last 14 years and I have found that small bowls, dishes etc, not more than £5, are usually good selling points. They often lead to sales or orders for bigger things which cannot be bad.

I wish you all the best, above all keep smiling, welcome everyone (even when you are tired), always be ready to answer questions but above all, relax.

Regards, Peter.


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## Bodrighy (16 Jun 2009)

Also remember that you will _never_be haoppy in retrospect with the work that you dio. I am on tenterhooks with each oiece tha I seel as I can see the faults. Perfection is like greener grass, it's always just over the hill. People who buy from the sort of sale you are talking about are looking at things that they don't do themselves so proably won't see those small imperfections that are glaringly obvious to you. Always aim to make things to the highest quality but don't despair of the smaler imperfections. 

Layout is important too. Big and fancy things attract attention but people like to rummage though those baskets and the smaller things s keep big to the back and small to the front.. A sign saying 'Please touch' is often a good idea as well as it is contrary to what most people expect. 

Pete


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## johnny.t. (16 Jun 2009)

Thankyou Peter and Pete, I've just ordered some leather thongs for necklaces, so I'm going to use up some little offcut bits and bobs for pendants(should be quick and easy).

JT


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## Jenx (16 Jun 2009)

Magic JT ! .... good luck with the Fair ( fayre ) ! Should be good ! 8) 8)


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## stevebuk (16 Jun 2009)

its all great stuff JT and hope it all sells for you.

A question, correct me if i'm wrong but how do you turn mushrooms with a natural edge if you dont turn it to round between centres before mounting it in the jaws? :?: surely this removes the bark doesn't it, it did with the yew i tried.


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## richburrow (16 Jun 2009)

That is a cracking days work, nice one. Must be a great feeling to have produced all those in one go  
I hope you sell the whole lot!!!


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## johnny.t. (17 Jun 2009)

stevebuk":2gw07hvt said:


> A question, correct me if i'm wrong but how do you turn mushrooms with a natural edge if you dont turn it to round between centres before mounting it in the jaws? :?:



Steve, I use small branches for mushrooms I just cut a length,put it in the jaws of the chuck, bring up the tail stock, form the cap leaving a bit near the live centre, then the stem and top of the base, then cut into the bark straitght with the skew to keep a nice clean edge,take away the tailstock tidy up the top , finally part off the base and just throw away the tiny piece that was in the jaws of the chuck. 
HTH JT


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## stevebuk (17 Jun 2009)

thanks JT sounds easy enough, will try it next week.


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## Bodrighy (17 Jun 2009)

Have a look in your local cemetery Steve, seriously. They often prune the yews and leave the smaller branches just lying around and they are ideal for mushrooms. Also hazel, blackthorn and hawthorn are good. Just use the little log as mentioned. No need to be too careful centring up. Takes about 7 or 8 minute for a mushroom and the great thing is as the real thing come in all sorts of shapes and sizes you can't really turn a bad shaped one.

pete


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## johnny.t. (18 Jun 2009)

Got some leather thonging and tried making some 'trendy' pendants for the craft fair.






From left to right, cherry with two cherry bracelets,two oak,two walnut,three spalted sycamore and two ash. The mushrooms are cherry and laburnum.

Sorry for the super lame photo, its getting dark out there!! :lol: 

JT


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## Bodrighy (18 Jun 2009)

I'll see if I can knock up a couple of hedgehogs and mice tomorrow to show you. They take about 5 minutes each to do and sell well, especially if there are kids around.

Jewellery looks good so far. 

Pete


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## johnny.t. (18 Jun 2009)

Bodrighy":1vm2uhf4 said:


> I'll see if I can knock up a couple of hedgehogs and mice tomorrow to show you. They take about 5 minutes each to do and sell well, especially if there are kids around.



Cheers Pete that would be really helpful 8) 



Bodrighty":1vm2uhf4 said:


> Jewellery looks good so far.



Thanks, its made mostly from bits and bobs off the floor found in the sawdust :lol: I'm hoping it will do ok at the craft fair, SWMBO has already nicked a necklace and bracelet and my sister popped in for a cuppa and also made off with a bracelet :roll: got to be a good sign though  

JT


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## Lightweeder (20 Jun 2009)

Johnny, I've got my first one on 1 July and I'm a nervous wreck. I'd be really interested to hear how you get on.

LW


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## Scrums (20 Jun 2009)

ahhh......Craft fairs......don't get too over excited about them, the smaller ones rarely do anyone any favours.

'Village Hall' type fairs at £10/15 a table can sometimes bring in up to £100 or so, but more often than not £35-40 and sometimes not even that.

Ok, so you've got to start somewhere - and they're probably a good place to test the waters.

Don't sit behind a big pile of all your largest bowls and platters that you're so proud of, they won't sell......not at realistic prices anyway. Light pulls and Garden dibbers and Mushrooms and all the boring production stuff is what will pay the table fee, your petrol and maybe even a pint down the pub afterwards, look on the 'posh' stuff as a bonus.

Get your table set up nicely, if you're serious about selling your own stuff produce some promotional business giveaways, leaflets,business cards etc and you may pick up some leads/comissions.

I speak with experience here, we did 80+ shows last year, many of them the smaller type. This year only 30 or so booked - mostly Agricultural shows and the like and it's going better.

When you get to the show - 'Network' - horrible, I know - talk to other crafters, find out about other shows, which are good, which to avoid...it'll pay in the longrun.

Chris.


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## Paul.J (20 Jun 2009)

Nice looking jewellery pieces JT


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## johnny.t. (21 Jun 2009)

LW I'm nervous too :lol: , I will of course post what happens.

Chris,thanks for the advice, I'm really hoping that I can at least cover the cost of the table(£5 :lol: ) if we can do that I've only wasted time! In seriousness it's a bit more than a villiage hall craft fair, its a rustic fair and there will be many other things going on,including, falconry,traction engines and even a display by the local school gymnastics team! We figure this will at least mean a few extra people to look at my stuff than what you could expect at an out and out craft fair. TBH I would be well pleased if we took enough money for a decent chinese takeaway and a pint  

Thanks Paul, I have to make more as I've already sold/given away a couple of them #-o 

JT


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## RATWOOD (21 Jun 2009)

Bodrighy":ruufs8jd said:


> I'll see if I can knock up a couple of hedgehogs and mice tomorrow to show you. They take about 5 minutes each to do and sell well, especially if there are kids around.



where are the hedgehogs and mice pete I looking forward to them


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## Bodrighy (21 Jun 2009)

RATWOOD":3hbifge9 said:


> Bodrighy":3hbifge9 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll see if I can knock up a couple of hedgehogs and mice tomorrow to show you. They take about 5 minutes each to do and sell well, especially if there are kids around.
> ...


I'm sorry, I got caught up finishing off the wedding goblets. Hadn't expected them to want both pairs. (not that I'm complaining)

I'll go out the shed now  

Pete


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## RATWOOD (21 Jun 2009)

Cheers Pete


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## johnny.t. (21 Jun 2009)

RATWOOD":2kbn0306 said:


> Bodrighy":2kbn0306 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll see if I can knock up a couple of hedgehogs and mice tomorrow to show you. They take about 5 minutes each to do and sell well, especially if there are kids around.
> ...



I didn't like to hassle him :lol:


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## Lightweeder (21 Jun 2009)

A promise is a promise 8)


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## johnny.t. (21 Jun 2009)

Pete said 5 mins each, by now he must of made 10.... :lol: :lol:


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## Bodrighy (21 Jun 2009)

OK. 

First the excuses.

My grandson (one of them) has dissapeared with my pyrography pen so I have had to do this wih ink to give the general idea.

Hedgehog



 



Usually the snout, eyes and the prickles are done with pyrography as the ink spreads. At least this should give you an idea of the shape. It does literally take 5 minutes to make. This is just a couple of inches long but there is no reasom why you shouldn't make them any size you like. Turn the basic shape then flatten on a sanding disc. That' all there is to it apart from the markings. 

I will do the mouse later. The shape is simple but you need to stick ears and a tail on and I have just been told by SWMBO that it's my turn to make dinner.

Pete


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## johnny.t. (21 Jun 2009)

Thanks Pete.

Well I've borrowed a sturdy tressel table and so I thought I'd try it out in a practice/trial run/will it look OK kind of way. I need to get/make something to hang the necklaces on and I'm not sure what or how, but so far........







What do you think?

JT


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## Bodrighy (21 Jun 2009)

Looks like a good selection of both cheaper goods and more expensive things as well. Idf you can get some kind of shelf at the back for height it helps the display. Boxes with the material over them would work. Just to lift the more expensive things up. Also if you have any keyrings, light pulls etc a bowl of them is good.

Do you have any carsds you can hand out as one of the things about these shows is the possible contacts when people see what you can do. 

Peter Platter or Scrums may come back as they do loads and loads of sales so will proibably have some good hints and tips.

Pete


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## Paul.J (21 Jun 2009)

Looks very good JT


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## Jenx (22 Jun 2009)

Looks marvellous JT .... great assortment !
Most Impressive ! 8) 8) 8)


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## Lightweeder (22 Jun 2009)

JT - your lot looks better than mine - you should be fine IMO. I agree on the box at the back to elevate your better pieces. I'm going to dye an old sheet green, as I think that might set things off also.

Best of luck :wink:


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## johnny.t. (22 Jun 2009)

Thanks all  

I'm a bit unsure of putting things up on shelves as the event is outside and I would hate for a gust of wind to bring it or the things on it crashing down...

Pete, what sort of keyrings do you refer to, are we talking simple discs of wood?

I need to make more spinning tops as there is lots of interest in them from the local school(who are part hosting the event) ,after I gave a couple to the kids of the friends who are helping organise the fair. So more dull turning for me  at least after next weekend I'll be back to making more creative things \/ .I am just about mushroomed out :lol: ,although I really have enjoyed making the jewelery.

JT


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## Bodrighy (22 Jun 2009)

I just use scraps of wood and turn to all sorts of shapes. I then use small ring and eyes screwed into them to make them up. 

Pete


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## treeturner123 (22 Jun 2009)

Just one thought Johnny T. Have you thought of having a book case or some form of shelving at the back? I use this to give height to the stand and I drape it with material, dark blue which I feel shows off the timber. If necessary, you can also hide behind it as well!


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## John. B (22 Jun 2009)

For your necklaces you might make one these,  
You may even get an order for one.







John. B


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## johnny.t. (26 Jun 2009)

Well its D-Day as far as the craft fair goes tomorrow, had one more try at setting it up, thi time with the stand for pendants and some swanky stars with price info on made by SMBO.






Its all packed up in the car now with a couple of garden loungers and a big brolly :lol: (the event is outdoor).


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## Bodrighy (26 Jun 2009)

I bet the mushrooms sell olut first and the crotch bowls get picked uo and oohed over most but don't sell so well (unless you asking a silly price for them.

Priobably too late now or you may have thought of it all ready but it's worth having a few cards to give people with phone number etc. You may well get a few people asking if you can make 6 door knobs or a couple of stair spindles Best of luck and remember that 90% of the people there can't turn and those that can are friends :lol: 
I like the 'Please feel free to touch' sign

Pete


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## wizer (26 Jun 2009)

Looks good. If I was being critical I might say that it looks a little cluttered. Perhaps pick a selection of your favs and then when they sell like hot cakes, replace them on the table.


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## johnny.t. (26 Jun 2009)

Fair point Wizer, I'll see about leaving a few pieces off to make it look better,we're going about an hour and a half before it starts so should have plenty of fiddling time.

Pete the sign says ' feel free to ' 'touch' 'browse' and 'ask quesions'.

The pricing was difficult, I've not gone too high( I don't think) for example those crotch bowl are at £15 each, pendants at £3,goblets £8,platters £10 the big walnut bowl I made yesterday(right corner) is the highest priced at £20.

Sound about right? I thought being not too greedy on this occasion might clear up some of my older pieces and increase the chances of a sale.


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## stevebuk (26 Jun 2009)

great selection of items JT, should be a complete sellout at those prices, very fair if you ask me.


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## Paul.J (26 Jun 2009)

Will we see the same piccy tomorrow but with an empty table JT :?: 
Best of luck.


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## Bodrighy (26 Jun 2009)

Sounds very cheap to me but prices need to be right for the venue and for what value you put on them. Personally I'd put double that price on the crotch bowls but then as you said they may not sell . 

Pete


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## cornucopia (27 Jun 2009)

good luck JT- 
far too cheap


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## duncanh (27 Jun 2009)

johnny.t.":3uw2kxpx said:


> The pricing was difficult, I've not gone too high( I don't think) for example those crotch bowl are at £15 each, pendants at £3,goblets £8,platters £10 the big walnut bowl I made yesterday(right corner) is the highest priced at £20.
> 
> Sound about right?



Your prices are way too low! When you factor in the price of the wood (which you may not have bought but you should price as if you have), finish, abrasives, tools etc it would appear as though you aren't taking into account the time spent.

Maybe it would be better to start at double the prices and then put up sale sign in the afternoon if the morning doesn't go well. Or maybe up the prices and put up a sign saying that you're willing to haggle 

It's too easy for me to sit here and comment on pricing, and I know that it's hard to get right, but whenever I've sold things I've been told that I've under priced, and that's after I've put prices up to something which I thought was too high.

Good luck

Duncan

Duncan


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## Soulfly (27 Jun 2009)

Without wishing to sound harsh Johnnyt dispaly has a look of a car boot stall. There is a hotch potch of different objects crammed on to a tresle table, nothing paticularly interesting and eyecatching, no sign to say what or who the the stall is, no provision for taking card paymenst and I could go on. I would say go and do a bit of market reseach. Look around the premier league shows and see how the pros do it, look at the succesful shops and try and create a bit of atmosphere and a buzz on your stall. As for pricing, price on the high side because you can always bring your prices down. 
Also plan and prepare as far ahead as you can. Most turners will fail to make on the business side because they invariable make stuf that people don't want, is too time consuming and has little merit in terms of design. 
Sorry to sound brutal but if you get it right the rewards can be very good without having to resort to the tuition circuit. Best of luck to all of you dipping your toes into the commercial side.


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## wizer (27 Jun 2009)

For once I don;t actually disagree with you Soulfly. Except the barmy bit about taking card payments. :roll: 

However, I think you should put up or shut up. Are you just a back seat driver or are you Dave Regester in disguise ??? Come on, be a MAN


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## Paul.J (27 Jun 2009)

Yes c'mon Souly.Lets see what your made of :?: 
*Jt* as only been turning for a very short while and as achieved loads in that short space of time. :shock: 
So if he does well today and gets *positive comments* off the public than no doubt this will give him the *confidence* to put his prices up for the next one.This is his first.


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## Bodrighy (27 Jun 2009)

IME if you have a table with a load of stuff on it people tend to stop and rummage. They find they can't afford the £40 bowl so buy a couple of keyrings instead. If you make the table look too exclusive people tend to have a look as they pass by. If it was a major craft sale perhaps a few choice things but for this sort of sale the only thing I would change would be the prices. 

For most traders at craft sales card sales cost more than they are worth. Over the net using PayPal it's fine but not for these sort of sales IME

Pete


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## loz (27 Jun 2009)

Best of luck today JT.

Whatever happens, i hope you had fun, and get the praise you deserve from the crowds !!

I wish i had the skill to turn items i thought were saleable.

I hope you have signed them all !!!!!

Loz


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## johnny.t. (27 Jun 2009)

Soulfly":1tzzmey7 said:


> ......nothing paticularly interesting and eyecatching



Thanks Soulfly, nothing intersesting or eyecatching eh? Thats nice isn't it. 

Nice to see your comments are returning back to form. We have a word for people like you round here....

If you have nothing better to do than put people and their work down, then its a damn shame they didn't ban you before.


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## johnny.t. (27 Jun 2009)

Well it wasn't too brilliant for anyone there, it turned out that the event had practically no advertising and so was frequented mostly by people with kids at the school the event was in aid of. Added to that we were beside a table selling locally made pork pies donated to the event and run by the organisers, who thought it was a good idea to loudly call people entering the marquee we were in over to them, bypassing us and the lady artist next to us. 
However we had a few sales and have made a few quid, seen what sells well and got encouraging comments from both the public and other 'crafters' and will definately have another go. In number we matched the sales of the lady next to us, who is a seasoned craft fair seller, who told us "this has been a bad one". A small bonus though one lady came up and offered me the top of a large old heavy mahogany table, which I have to go and pick up.

JT

If only I'd took me credit card machine :roll:


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## cornucopia (27 Jun 2009)

sorry to hear that JT
did the seasoned craft fair lady tell you of any "good one's" to attend?


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## Lightweeder (27 Jun 2009)

JT - firstly, please ignore Soulfly. He, she or it was very rude about my stuff when I don't believe it was deserved. Even if work is poor, it's encouragement we want. Your work, on the other hand, is good enough for anyone - better than mine :wink: 

My first show is going to be just to judge the feeling of what people want to look at, and what they don't. I want to use it as a learning curve so I get the next one right, and I think you should do the same. If I come away having sold nothing, I will even then think of that as something gained, or learned. Keep at it. Your stuff's great and, one way or another, you've gained so much today, even if it's just what a thoroughly ignorant person Soulfly is.


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## mrs. sliver (27 Jun 2009)

I think you did a cracking job there JT!! I did my second stall last week and was a little disappointed with sales, but after speaking to other stall holders, the story was the same. people came and had a good day out, but didn't buy much. BUT, it paid for the stall costs and a couple of drinks to be had in the sunshine, so why worry??
It sort of depends what you are aiming for really I suppose. 

I turn purely for pleasure, craft shows just give a chance to clear the things I have made and raise cash for a bit more wood (with luck) Plus it can be a good day out if you treat it as such. If you are looking to turn it into a business and profit is uppermost .... it will take all the joy out of it IMHO. I have done this twice already where a hobby become an income .. killed both off stone dead as fun!!

I would just repack your things ready for the next one. maybe have a think about your displaying, I need to do something with mine too, but just having little shelves and cheap spotlights would make a difference.

Better luck with the next one. but well done at getting ready for this one at such short notice! =D>


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## johnny.t. (28 Jun 2009)

cornucopia":1llly3zx said:


> sorry to hear that JT
> did the seasoned craft fair lady tell you of any "good one's" to attend?



She basically said to just keep plugging away at them and that as people who attend these things get to know your face you start doing better, that is to say there are many people who attend most of these sort of events locally and continue buying. She did say we had done well for a first try and she admired our stuff, so that was nice.


Next time,I'll put a bit more into the layout. I think a shelf or two, to raise things up, much bigger signs, a notice to say who we are and that I made it all myself(as lots of people asked "do you make this youself" and so I can only take it people think you've bought it in to sell) and pobably most importantly....put the prices on top of the items as I had put them underneath and thought people would just naturally pick things up and look(they don't).


I think I might get a website to put my nicer things on, I've got a mate who's dead good at that sort of thing, who owes me a favour or two....

JT


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## johnny.t. (28 Jun 2009)

This is how we looked just after setting up(thats Mrs.JT not me!)






This just about sums up the event, which listed 'Traction Engines' as a main attraction, this being it...........




The guy was obviously a mechanical genius,but still a bit disapointing :roll: 

JT


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## Tony Spear (28 Jun 2009)

Soulfly":hei14c5v said:


> Look around the premier league shows and see how the pros do it,
> 
> look at the succesful shops
> 
> the commercial side.



Would that be you then?


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## loz (29 Jun 2009)

Not a loss JT. Think of all you learnt from this one. Im sure the next will be much more sucessful.

Large pat on the back for having the balls to put your skill on public display like that - some "people" on this forum wont even post photos of thier own work - if indeed they have any to show.

Hats off to you

Loz


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## johnny.t. (29 Jun 2009)

Thanks Loz 8)


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## stevebuk (29 Jun 2009)

hi jt
i think the stall looks absolutely amazing, and to say there is nothing there to attract attention is wrong, there is loads there.
So you didn't get rich today, so what , did you enjoy it? of course you did
put it down to experience and now you already have idea's for the next one, good on you. =D> =D> =D> 

dont take to heart things that soulfly said, we wont always get good remarks, but hey at least it grabbed his attention long enough to say something eh!.

come on soulfly, with al the years you have been doing it (alledgedly) you must have something to show us..


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## Richard Findley (29 Jun 2009)

Hi JT,

Well done for getting out there. I must say that I've never had much success at craft fairs  I think the best I did was about £75. What I did however was have a good day out with my mates as they were all with my woodturning club so it really depends on your view point as to how successful it was.

The important things are: Did you enjoy it? and Did you learn anything? If you come away with 2 yes's then it was worth going. 

Keep up the good work

Richard


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## Bodrighy (29 Jun 2009)

I find that it is also good for the ego as most of the punters don't turn so don't notice all the little faults that are glaringly obvious to you and think you are really marvellous even thoug you may not think so. :lol: 

Pete


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## Scrums (30 Jun 2009)

Definitely a bit of a Car boot effect, no reflection on the quality of the ware for sale - purely the first impression, for me and for the punters and those awful dayglo star thingies - lose them!

Here's a couple _(or three, or four)_ piccy's of some I've done recently....







Country Fest, Kendal - Marquee






Myerscough Agricultural College - outside, we've got the nasty extra table cover sorted now....






Slaidburn Steam Rally -Village Hall, made money, but a total waste of time !






Wray Scarecrow Festival - peed down all the way through - covered the rent + 30 quid _(...note psycho border collie in van)_

Looking more closely at those, we're still a bit of a jumble sale - but getting better, thing is, keep on looking at your stall, keep on improving it and keep on learning.....


Chris.


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

Thanks to all of you and your positive words, we did just kind of throw it all together.

Chris, thanks for those pics of yours, the first one looks particulaly good. I definitely need some shelving. Your light pull stand looks great, it kind of makes you want to look along the rows at them. Looking back at mine I think we were a bit bowly looking(too many bowls and bowl type things). The sign is a nice touch too, makes you look 'proper'.
Can I ask you how you get on selling the clocks? I've just bought some parts to make some funnily enough, with a view to it being something to catch peoples eye, something thats not a bowl...

Cheers JT


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## Scrums (30 Jun 2009)

Clocks don't do an awful lot, but they're so cheap and quick to make, They attract quite a lot of attention and I'll usually sell one or two at bigger shows - priced between £18 - £23. I find the waney/natural edge ones go best.

Chris.


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

Thanks Chris 8)


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## wizer (30 Jun 2009)

There you go, that's the way to do it. Now you just need to find out where Chris goes and undercut him :lol:


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## jpt (30 Jun 2009)

HI

Craft fairs can be hard work, frustrating and cost money, but usually I find them hard work, fun, a good day out and you can make money at them.

Even the ones you make a loss at are good for experience, even if it is only that you wont do that one again.

Belwo are pictures of what my stand has evolved into over the years, it works for me anyway. The one thing that made the biggest change was adding lights, I now wont do one unless power is available, even at some of the silly prices they charge for it at times.

john


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## Soulfly (30 Jun 2009)

I would say the Works -in -Wood has the right idea and has put some thought and effort into his display. Nicely laid out, good sign, attractive products. I'm not mad on the idea of awnings and tents to sell from. It is always worth investing in a proper stall. As for craft fairs, they always struggle to get punters through the gates, you always get the cowboys selling bought in goods even in the well vetted ones and mostly they only want people in marquees where the is very little space. Don't forget there are lots of different shows, We have sold at music festivals, county shows, street craft markets, garden shows and as long as the weather is ok and there are enough people we have done pretty well. The Showmans directory is very good and lists most shows of all types in the uk and also the craftsman magazine lists all the craft shows . It is a learning process and as long as you keep learning on every one you can succeed. Of course more and more business is done online these days and that is a whole new ball game and I'm sure we will discuss this at a later date.


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## Paul.J (30 Jun 2009)

Did you all start out the same as JT though :?: 
I#m sure as he goes on he will get better at displaying his goods,as you all have.


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## Bodrighy (30 Jun 2009)

Looking at Chris's and John's displays the one thing that strikes me is the wide variety of things on view. Chris I noticed has flat work as well while John has the smaller pieces but larger presumanly more expensive things as well. Judging from the Royal Cornwall I did recently with the club, the bigger fancier things arfe crowd pullers and if your lucky you might sell one or tweo but the bread and butter was with things like light pulls, pens and smaller items. It also shows the variety of skills available and several of us got commissions from the sale. 
Pete


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

John, I notice a digital frame on your stand, care to elaborate?

JT


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## wizer (30 Jun 2009)

Is it me, or are you both called John Taylor ?


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

No I'm called Johnny :lol:, well Jonathan but only my mum ever calls me that :lol: :lol:


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## big soft moose (30 Jun 2009)

wizer":ix46frni said:


> For once I don;t actually disagree with you Soulfly. Except the barmy bit about taking card payments. :roll:
> 
> However, I think you should put up or shut up. Are you just a back seat driver or are you Dave Regester in disguise ??? Come on, be a MAN



Taking card payments is a total non starter (have you any idea how much one of those hand held chip and pin terminals costs soulfly - not to mention the service to run it . gone are the days when you could just do a manual imprest (though actually even that wasnt econoimc for part time traders)

and talking rubbish like that shows me that in fact you havent done a craftfair in a long time (if ever) , so as we said before put up or shut up - and if you cant say anything nice dont say anything.

Leaving the rubbish talked by our resident troll aside JT in my view the quality of your turning is not in question so if you can get people to come over to your stand your ought to be in buisness , put that said the layout and presentation could be a bit better.

a) lose the hand written signs and especially those nasty stars - signs should be done on a computer in at least 24pt and then laminated (copy shops will do that for you for a small fee)

b) think about a two level display to give your stand presence - this doesnt need to be fancy - you coud just knock up a couple of low shelves out of MDF or even just stick some cardboard boxes under the table cloth.

c) If you have a brand / name of buisness think about either getting a banner done (thats not expensive now) or at least making up a sign to say who you are (again on the computer)

and lastly

d) i'm not a big fan of the mud brown table cloth - dark blue or dark green might show your wares off to better effect - and table cloths are dead cheap these days.


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## Bodrighy (30 Jun 2009)

big soft moose":3lhcwz49 said:


> [
> 
> d) i'm not a big fan of the mud brown table cloth - dark blue or dark green might show your wares off to better effect - and table cloths are dead cheap these days.



I haven't done many fairs / sales as I sell mostly via the net but when I have done them I use an old pair of blue velvet curtans that SWMBO tarted up for me. No pics I'm afraid but it sets the pieces off well and was free. 

Pete


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

:lol: The joys of digital cameras eh? The table cloth is black!!! I wouldn't buy one thats s**t brown :lol: :lol:


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## big soft moose (30 Jun 2009)

johnny.t.":3l2u81wz said:


> :lol: The joys of digital cameras eh? The table cloth is black!!! I wouldn't buy one thats s**t brown :lol: :lol:



fair enuf - one other point on the cloth is that it could do with being a bit longer - mine is virtually floor length on the front which enables you to stash boxes, bags, etc on the floor underneath without them being unsightly.

3 other points that come to mind are

1) try to get/make some stands for your platters - you've got them displayed lying down which doesnt show them off to best effect - having them standing up also gives your stand more impact at a distance

2) if you've got swimbo with you (at the risk of being genralising wildly in a sexist manner) you could also invest in some cheap but nice ribbon and wrapping paper and offer a free wrapping service ( I did that in the run up to xmas 2 years back (tho actually i had my mummy in tow not swimbo) and it significantly upped my sales , particularly those to blokes buying gifts for their swimbos

3) Without giving credence to any of trollflys flipping nonsense you could do with one or two "signature pieces" to attract interest from a distance - your work is very nice but it doesnt have a lot of impact except up close - a couple of big platters , or wallhangings, or hollow forms or whatever have the potential to catch the punters eye accros the room and draw them to your stand (tho they are very unlikely to purchase the big bits once there you may sell them something smaller)


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## jpt (30 Jun 2009)

As Paul said things evolve and you learn as you go along. The first show I did was with the club and it looked like this. At the time we thought it looked good.






The raised portion along the back of the stand in the previous pictures is made up of 4 boxes which when packed fit inside each other for easy storage. They also give you somewhere to put things like the cash box, spare stock etc.

I used to take a lathe along and demo at a lot of shows which attracted a lot of attention. But the arthritis etc has caught up with me and I no longer do that. Instead I have the photo frame with WIP pictures showing which also attracts attention.

As Pete said I do a wide range of things from small £1 light pulls right up to large bowls etc. I keep a record of everything I sell and the smaller stuff pays for the stall etc.

I have been at shows with other turners who have mainly one type of thing such as bowls or large hollow forms and have come away from the show not even covering stand costs whereas I made a good profit having sold one or two of lots of different items.

I would much rather just make what I want to but I need to earn money from doing it so the market drives what I make, luckily I enjoy turning, even a batch of a 100 light pulls.

john


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## johnny.t. (30 Jun 2009)

Cheers BSM all good points. There were nicer things on there but displayed flat I can see how it all got lost. Plate stands are a great idea.


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## richburrow (30 Jun 2009)

When you are in trouble


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## big soft moose (30 Jun 2009)

big soft moose":wuo11jtf said:


> Taking card payments is a total non starter (have you any idea how much one of those hand held chip and pin terminals costs .



just been doing a bit of research on this and the basic costs are

Setup Cost: ranges between £50 and £250, £120 is the average. 
Annual Cost: normally around £150. 
Monthly: The most standard charge especially from acquiring banks, around £10-25. 
PSP: Can be a commission of as little as 1% but often about £10 per month or 3-4%. 
Transaction Charge: 2.79% for an established business but up to 4-5% otherwise. 
Bond: (that is insurance against fraud) open to negotiation but averages arround 25/month

Plus you either need to buy the terminal outright (anywhere from £500 to £2k) or rent it from your service provider at arround £25/m

so you are looking at a ballpark cost of well over a grand in the first year and a little under in the following years - that might be viable for an established pro , but in no way is it for an amateur (particularly remembering that you have to pay the monthly charges whether you have sold anything or not.)

add to that the fact that these terminals either require a phone line (which you wont have at a craftfair) or a mobile, mobile internet, or wifi signal (depending on the type) which may also be a sometime thing.

It is perfectly possible to take credit card payments via a website - but in the flesh its completely impractical in 99% of craft fair situations


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## jpt (30 Jun 2009)

HI BSM

I have been looking at taking cards myself as less and less people carry cash or cheque books these days.

All of the companys I have approached say that unless you take an average of £1000 a month via card payments it isnt worth doing. So much for helping the small buisnesses.

The only other way is via paypal, they do a virtual terminal but it is long winded as you have to fill in a form with name and address etc, not really possible at most shows as it takes on average 5 min to fill in the form. The up side is it only costs £240 a year plus 2.9% of each sale. The other downside is you have to have some sort of portable computer with a dial up dongle.

john


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## big soft moose (30 Jun 2009)

jpt":13u28w7m said:


> HI BSM
> 
> I have been looking at taking cards myself as less and less people carry cash or cheque books these days.
> 
> ...



I supose technically you could set up seperate website pages for everything you had with you at the fair and ask people to transact over the web (summing you could get wifi or mob broadband) - but back in the real world who has the time and which punter is going to do that

I did do one craftfair/exhinition the year before last (with photos not turning) where credit card payments were handled by the organisers for all exhibitors , which was great (all credit card payments were made to the organiser who then reimbursed the exhibitors by cheque), but pitch fees were higher to allow for the service, 50 notes IIRC and administration was a nightmare.


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## Bodrighy (30 Jun 2009)

How many craft fairs are held outside striking distance of a holeinthewall? Maybe if someone wants something that costs enouigh to need to use a card then they'd go and get the money. Am I the only person left in rthe UK who hates using a card for less than about £20? :shock: 

pete


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## big soft moose (30 Jun 2009)

Bodrighy":33rqoxmx said:


> How many craft fairs are held outside striking distance of a holeinthewall? Maybe if someone wants something that costs enouigh to need to use a card then they'd go and get the money. Am I the only person left in rthe UK who hates using a card for less than about £20? :shock:
> 
> pete



the whole things a non starter pete - card use at all but the biggest craft fairs doesnt exist outside of trollflys fevered imagination.

but you are right very few venues are outside of the range of an ATM or somewhere that does cash back - I have had customers ask me to put aside a piece for them while they go and get some cash ( normally ask for a holding deposit as a sign of good faith - as no one goes to a craft fair without any money ) but thats with photography - with wood turning its pretty rare for craft fair sales to be that expensive anyway - and at the lower end (schole fayres etc) people know card services arent going to be possible and so bring plenty of wonga with them


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## Soulfly (1 Jul 2009)

I process card payment using the GPRS my mobile phone. You need software downloaded onto your applications and it is cheap and ideal for stallholders. If you don't have a full ecomerce site you can take payments over the phone. You can do very nice pyrographed signs that are in character with what we do rather than those laminated computer produced ones. . I think the problem with the cheap shows is a lack of space and poor quality and bought in traders. . It is a good idea to have one or two large stunning bits that that catch the punters eye. We do most of our trade on line these days and send stuff all over alltough its nice to get out and meet real people occasionally.. You get all sorts of funny enquiries and people wanting quotes for large numbers of things and odd commisions.
Very livley and interesting debate.


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## jpt (1 Jul 2009)

The problem is it doesnt matter how you take payments via card the costs are still the same apart from the rental of equipment and unless you use chip & pin the payment isnt garunteed.

So using your system you will process the card and get an authorisation code then a day or so later you can be told the money has been removed from your account because it was a fraudulant transation.

john


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## miles_hot (1 Jul 2009)

Soulfly":1j5ew0tz said:


> I process card payment using the GPRS my mobile phone. You need software downloaded onto your applications and it is cheap and ideal for stallholders. If you don't have a full ecomerce site you can take payments over the phone. You can do very nice pyrographed signs that are in character with what we do rather than those laminated computer produced ones. . I think the problem with the cheap shows is a lack of space and poor quality and bought in traders. . It is a good idea to have one or two large stunning bits that that catch the punters eye. We do most of our trade on line these days and send stuff all over alltough its nice to get out and meet real people occasionally.. You get all sorts of funny enquiries and people wanting quotes for large numbers of things and odd commisions.
> Very livley and interesting debate.



Can you give any details about this application SF (and any costs and required supporting stuff)? Granted there is the issue about guarantees as jpt says but I wonder how much traders have the UV things to look at bank notes etc?

Many thanks

Miles


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## Richard Findley (1 Jul 2009)

Going slightly off subject (sorry JT  ) but I use a PayPal credit card system for my on-line orders. The great thing about it is that there are no monthly/annual fees just a charge per transaction, so if I only use it one a year or twice a week it makes no difference. Unfortunatly it would be no use for craft fares (which is where I've gone off subject!! - sorry again!!)

I seem to be getting on ok with it but some feedback would be interesting. I know that several members have kindly bought goods from me and have used the system (Bodrighy, Cornucopia and Rich Burrow) how did you find it?

Cheers,

Richard


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## johnny.t. (1 Jul 2009)

Richard Findley":16vifhyj said:


> ......I use a PayPal credit card system for my on-line orders........
> 
> ...... I know that several members have kindly bought goods from me and have used the system (Bodrighy, Cornucopia and Rich Burrow)......



I didn't know you sold supplies Richard, even though I've looked at your site before  I just bought a load from Turners Retreat, oh well next time


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## Bodrighy (1 Jul 2009)

I use PayPal like a 2nd bank account and tend to do as much as possible through it. When selling I know the money is there before I send goods out. Also useful for simply keeping some online for those emegencies

pete


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## richburrow (1 Jul 2009)

Smooth process Rich, recommend to anyone


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## Tony Spear (2 Jul 2009)

Soulfly":10wkmc25 said:


> I would say the Works -in -Wood has the right idea and has put some thought and effort into his display. Nicely laid out, good sign, attractive products. I'm not mad on the idea of awnings and tents to sell from. It is always worth investing in a proper stall. As for craft fairs, they always struggle to get punters through the gates, you always get the cowboys selling bought in goods even in the well vetted ones and mostly they only want people in marquees where the is very little space. Don't forget there are lots of different shows, We have sold at music festivals, county shows, street craft markets, garden shows and as long as the weather is ok and there are enough people we have done pretty well. The Showmans directory is very good and lists most shows of all types in the uk and also the craftsman magazine lists all the craft shows . It is a learning process and as long as you keep learning on every one you can succeed. Of course more and more business is done online these days and that is a whole new ball game and I'm sure we will discuss this at a later date.



So where's your evidence? 

Put up or shut up.


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## big soft moose (2 Jul 2009)

Soulfly":2hp5412c said:


> I process card payment using the GPRS my mobile phone. You need software downloaded onto your applications and it is cheap and ideal for stallholders. .



this is the kind of thing hes talking about http://www.merchantexpress.com/wireless ... rminal.htm - thats an american site, but you get the idea.

the cost of the terminal alone is more than the average amateur is going to make in a year so to describe it as " cheap and ideal for stall holders" is somewhat wide of the mark.

then there are the processing charges etc

also it depends on your being able to get reception which isnt a given.

as i said possibly viable for pros , but complely unviable for those not trading full time



Soulfly":2hp5412c said:


> We do most of our trade on line these days and send stuff all over



funny how you dont mention your web address anywhere on here not even on your profile. Personally i find it very hard to give anything you say any credibility when you make assertions like this but fail to back up your claims with any proof whatsoever.


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