# A Krenov-inspired cocktail cabinet



## gasman (22 Feb 2012)

With my apologies to everyone who has 'been there, done that' with james Krenov - I have not yet and have just read his 4 books which I found truly inspirational.
FWW has quite a few Krenov-style cabinets so I started out with my trusty 'thinking book' and sketched a couple of ideas





Then decided I definitely wanted a curved front - so played around with some ideas for that




I wanted the front of the base and the doors to be curved - so I made a gentle laminated former from a bit of 4x2 and got thicknessing!
For timber - I decided the top would be more of the beautiful ripple sycamore which I used for my backgammon / chess table




Whilst for the base I have just got some beautiful cherry from a mate who cut a tree down a couple of years ago which we had thicknessed and has been in his garage stacked




I started with the cherry and cut thicknessed and laminated 6 pieces of 4 mm cherry before glueing up to make the curved front. The legs were made from 45mm square cherry using a plywood template and a flush trim bit followed by planing / card scraping




Here is the base clamped up (but not glued up yet as I may want to reduce the width depending on how the doors go.




I am interested in what people think about the use of dominos.... Krenov liked dowels and also I am sure I have seen a couple of articles alluding to the use of a domino in later years. Any thoughts?
Here are the curved legs




Onto the doors
I found some lovely ripple sycamore and cut the rails. The 2 inner rails stop short of the stiles a la Krenov so that the stiles which are paired, extend across the 2 doors. The stiles are also laminated and curved to match the curved front of the base
I used bridle joints which were straightforward for the rails but which for the stiles I cut freehand on the bandsaw and then tided up with a thin very sharp chisel









I also wanted a muntin for each door - which are 12.5 mm wide and 15 mm deep with a 3mm slot on each side for the glass.




I am absolutely loving this - first proper job of the year, days getting longer etc etc
Thanks for looking. Comments welcome
Mark


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## Modernist (22 Feb 2012)

Excellent, I was inspired by the same books 40 years ago and they still do.

Nice piece but I am not sure about the top and bottom door rails not continuing to the edge of the door on the outside.


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## gasman (22 Feb 2012)

Thanks for the input Modernistn - I agree some of his cabinet door stiles do extend all the way, yet others do not and just have the 'inner' rails stopping short whilst the outer ones are full height. I will look closer again at the weekend
Mark


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## Paul Chapman (22 Feb 2012)

Looking good, Mark.



gasman":2l1a9r2k said:


> I am interested in what people think about the use of dominos.... Krenov liked dowels and also I am sure I have seen a couple of articles alluding to the use of a domino in later years. Any thoughts?



I don't think the Domino was around when he was making furniture. If you have a choice between Dominos or dowels, then I would choose Dominos every time.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Gerard Scanlan (22 Feb 2012)

Very nice cabinet indeed.
I think that the way you have constructed the two frames for the door will look different when the doors are actually mounted in the cabinet as the lines will run through then. It is quite daring to make the doors like that especially after reading Krenov but I think they will look good when the whole thing is assembled.
I have a stack of rippled sycamore and some nice cherry too  so you never know...

I recently finished reading 3 of Krenov's books and I was very impressed with his approach to woodworking (haven't read 'with wakened hands' as it is astronomically expensive at the moment). I think my absolute favourite piece has to be his cutlery cabinet with the removable drawers. Of course other people have been there and done that but that does not matter.

I stumbled over work by one of Krenov's ex-students recently in which you can see his influences but also her own signature http://www.fingerprintfurniture.nl/ thought it might be of interest.

Good luck with the rest.

Gerard


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## woodbloke (22 Feb 2012)

gasman":14l56cpr said:


> Here is the base clamped up (but not glued up yet as I may want to reduce the width depending on how the doors go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As Modernist commented, the asymmetrical arrangement of the door style and rails is going to look odd (in my view at least). One of the things that JK was fanatical about was selecting timber for it's grain pattern and orientating it within the piece. If you look at the front rail of the stand, already you've got a sloping diagonal from left to right which (again my view) isn't going to sit well with the finished piece...it should have chosen so that it was at least straight or with a symmetrical curve, usually downwards.
The design of the legs is after the styling of JK's later pieces, which I don't personally like...I much prefer the earlier style with his classic inverse tapered shape.
Doms...I think had they been around when JK was building stuff, there's no doubt he would have used them as many of his cabinets were dowelled anyway.
One final thought...be very, *very* careful with English Cherry. On the face of it, it looks like lovely stuff, but as you use it, you'll see it's limitations, one of which is a distinctly mucky appearance (as though dirt has been rubbed into the grain...see second pic of the leg) and it'll tear out viciously if it's planed the wrong way - Rob


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## gasman (22 Feb 2012)

Thanks guys - all comments duly noted
I don't have a problem with the domino - it is also saves a lot of precious wood in my view
I will see how the door evolves. It would be very easy to remake the similes so no hardship there
Rob thanks for pointing out the grain business - I had wondered about that but thought I would see how it all evolves. I can easily put a new 'face' on that front rail - but actually I have not yet decided whether that is going to be square like it is, or curved, or divided in 2 - or 'notched' like some of JKs things were. I wanted to get a feel of how it will look (I know many of you clever chaps do that with sketch up which I can't do)
Thanks again
Mark


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## Mr Ed (22 Feb 2012)

Great work. I have no doubt that JK would have been using a Domino had it been around in his time.

Ed


Rob - get over yourself and try and find something positive in the work of others. Don't give me the 'if you don't like it, you should stay away' line, that's a cop out. Of course we all have differing opinions, but it offers nothing to the development of someone's furniture making when all you do is find fault.


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## Modernist (22 Feb 2012)

Modernist":1yzbl04d said:


> Excellent, I was inspired by the same books 40 years ago and they still do.
> 
> Nice piece but I am not sure about the top and bottom door rails not continuing to the edge of the door on the outside.



EDIT that should be 30 years ago - I'm not that old, nor are the books  

I think the ripple sycamore is a gem


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## woodbloke (22 Feb 2012)

Mr Ed":2o22b2wv said:


> Rob - get over yourself and try and find something positive in the work of others. Don't give me the 'if you don't like it, you should stay away' line, that's a cop out. Of course we all have differing opinions, but it offers nothing to the development of someone's furniture making when all you do is find fault.


Go and find a life somewhere Ed please, but preferably not here. I offer a critique, good, bad or indifferent where I see it would be most useful to the maker and as I've said repeatedly, anyone can do the same on any project of mine. No piece is ever 100%... and I don't care who made it. We can all learn by others actually saying on a public forum what it is about a piece of work that they like or dislike.

For the record, one of intensely irritating things about this sort of thing are the mind numbing platitudes that are offered (and I'm sometimes guilty as well) about work shown on the forum. I'd far rather folk actually said what they think, provided it's not offensive, causes hurt and they can offer positive justifications for their comments, which I attempt to do, although it has to be said sometimes my comments can be a bit blunt. At least I hope that makers get something positive from my (and others) comments - Rob

Edit - fwiw, the OP's project has the potential to be a really good piece of work and I was indicating features at this early stage that Gman could take on board for further consideration as it progressed.


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## TheTiddles (22 Feb 2012)

I agree, people should only say everything is brilliant, especially my work

yours sincerely

Rob Cosman


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## TheTiddles (22 Feb 2012)

oh, and relating to the piece, looking nice so far, are you still planning to have the two drawers under the twin doors or just seeing how it goes?

Aidan


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## Mr Ed (22 Feb 2012)

I'm not arguing for a mindless statement of 'that looks good' on everything. I just feel that since we are all here for fun it is more virtuous (and more motivating) where projects are concerned to give generally positive feedback with observations on improvements, rather than to try and prove how much we know about James Krenov (or any other subject) under the guise of criticism.


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## gasman (23 Feb 2012)

Thanks again for comments - interesting how much angst JKs work seems to generate!! Certainly no piece of mine has ever generated as many comments as quickly, negative or positive. I certainly do not take offence at constructive criticism - many of the comments posted on this website by members have been extremely helpful and some have changed the way I have done things. It is the main reason I post here as I find the constructive comments always helpful. I still think drawers - maybe just one - or even a pair side by side - will make decision once doors are finished and I see how balanced it all looks
Cheers
Mark


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## woodbloke (23 Feb 2012)

Mr Ed":2a90zcbt said:


> I'm not arguing for a mindless statement of 'that looks good' on everything. I just feel that since we are all here for fun it is more virtuous (and more motivating) where projects are concerned to give generally positive feedback with observations on improvements, rather than to try and prove how much we know about James Krenov (or any other subject) under the guise of criticism.



Feedback can be positive OR negative and it's only by looking at BOTH aspects do we learn stuff that we can hopefully build into the next piece and with any luck, the mistakes or errors made won't be repeated in the next.
As for expounding and trying to prove a point as far as JK is concerned...what utter tosh! I've read the books and still dip into them occasionally like thousands of others, so yes, I like his stuff but wouldn't ever consider myself an 'expert' on the life and works of JK (sounds like a good Mastermind subject :mrgreen: )
What I know about cabinetmaking and woodwork has been gathered through 40 years of doing the stuff, but nobody knows everything, certainly not me, or either JK for that matter and I'm happy to be proved wrong as and when it happens...it's only at that point will I learn something! - Rob


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## MickCheese (23 Feb 2012)

I don't want to enter into a lion den but can I add that I found Rob's observations very interesting. As a relative novice who seeks to improve I looked at the piece and was very impressed, then I read Rob's and Modernist's comments and re-visited the pictures. Whilst I was no less impressed I could now see it in greater detail.

This is something I will try to take into consideration when making my own projects.

I also found the OP's response very enlightening when he discussed how he would deal with the comments and what his options were.

Just my opinion, I actually think the piece is looking really good with good proportions and I can tell the OP is very skilled.

Keep up the WIP, really enjoying this.

Mick


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## mtr1 (23 Feb 2012)

I like it, and I think the way you have arranged the door stiles and rails will look good. I find with cherry that it will tone down a bit after its been cut, but it can be a bit of a pipper to stain(not that you are staining it?). Can I also ask why you have made the doors before making the cabinet? I've never done it like that before, I like to have the cabinet in front of me to make sure the doors are the right size  Even when I do a rod I sometimes find little errors in how big or small the cabinet will end up, I'm only talking about the odd millimetre, but find this can throw out the doors sometimes. Looking forward to seeing this progress, I have a couple of Malmsten inspired cabinets to make for my own house.....one day.


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## markturner (23 Feb 2012)

Hi Mark, nice piece, and looking forward to seeing it progress. Can you elaborate on how you made the legs? The elliptical tapered legs on my recent piece were the most difficult part and I would be interested to see how you tackled yours. Thanks!

Re Robs comments, I didn't think he was being overly negative, they were valid and useful points. Its easy to miss something that others see as obvious when doing something like this and another viewpoint always helps. 

Rgds, Mark


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## gasman (23 Feb 2012)

Thanks Mark
These legs were quite easy - cut a template in 6mm MDF (I think - might have been plywood), then drew round it on one side of the 45mm square leg 'blank' - before cutting roughly round with a bandsaw. Then stuck the template to the side with double-sided tape - before using a brilliant skew angle CMT flush trim router bit mounted in the router table. I have done this several times for various chairs and tables I have made over the years - and it works well as long as you start really carefully - as if the top end 'bites, it shreds the whole of one end of the leg DAMHIKT!!
I completely agree about Rob's comments - I took them as very constructive criticism and may well change small things as a result of such comments
Thanks again for the kind words and comments
Mark


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## gasman (23 Feb 2012)

And sorry to Mark mtr1 - missed your question completely. I made the doors first as that is what JK seems to do - it is an interesting concept and I agree not what I have ever done before - but he apparently says that any slight 'twists' in the doors can be taken out in the frame. Not sure really but it seemed a bit logical
Mark


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## gasman (23 Feb 2012)

Got back from work tonight a bit earlier than usual and very keen to carry on
So I cut a rebate in the rails of the doors to leave 4 mm which will be the thickness of the lip holding the glass (JK says apparently that the glass should be at the front of the doors to make them 'lighter' in appearance)
Then wondered how to rebate the curved stiles and hit upon this - a rebate cutting router bit from Axi which I bought years ago - and by playing around with the bearing - I cut it back to leave 6mm. 





So here are the four stiles before trimming the corners with a chisel




Halfway along each of these stiles will be the muntin - then the rebate will need to be straight so that the glass sits on them flush eventually but I think this will work and it got me quite excited!
The door roughly assembled and not glued yet, with the corners sorted out




Then I suddenly remembered England vs Pakistan in the T20 - so went in to watch England lose by 8 miserable runs when they were coasting with Bopara and Bairstow at the crease. Always hard being an England cricket fan!
More at the weekend
Mark


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## Benchwayze (23 Feb 2012)

Well Gasman, 
I like Krenov's work (or most of it.)
I like your cabinet, thus far, and I admire your skills, because when it comes to Krenov inspired pieces, the talent isn't in my fingers I fear! 

So 9.5 out of 10 because nothing is perfect! 8)


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## mtr1 (24 Feb 2012)

Good progress on the doors, did you consider off setting the shoulders for the tenons? This would get rid of the awkward corners, and would of enabled you to run the rebates through. If I've done it like that in the past, I have cut the corners after the door is glued up, as little errors creep in on glue up and sometimes the finished corner needs re-cutting slightly.
This thread has made me pick up the Krenov books I have, and made me look through my timber stock for suitable timbers for my builds, nice job.


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## Modernist (24 Feb 2012)

gasman":bd7sdvag said:


> And sorry to Mark mtr1 - missed your question completely. I made the doors first as that is what JK seems to do - it is an interesting concept and I agree not what I have ever done before - but he apparently says that any slight 'twists' in the doors can be taken out in the frame. Not sure really but it seemed a bit logical
> Mark



I think the idea behind making the doors first is that if you have a prized, selected piece of timber then you are going to show it in the doors. You can make the doors to make best use of that piece then size and adjust the cabinet to suit from less exotic timber. So really it is designing to the timber, not the plan.


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## Benchwayze (24 Feb 2012)

Modernist":1gtj41qb said:


> gasman":1gtj41qb said:
> 
> 
> > And sorry to Mark mtr1 - missed your question completely. I made the doors first as that is what JK seems to do - it is an interesting concept and I agree not what I have ever done before - but he apparently says that any slight 'twists' in the doors can be taken out in the frame. Not sure really but it seemed a bit logical
> ...



I think too, that's why Krenov called himself 'The Impractical Cabinetmaker'. Maybe?


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## RickCarpenter (26 Feb 2012)

Back to the stiles... I don't know how fixed you are on your project as is, but making the inner stiles and the muntins out of some darker wood might really set off your piece nicely.


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## gasman (27 Feb 2012)

Didn't get much done this weekend due to 'more important jobs' as they were described to me
However, I carried on with the doors of my cabinet and decided on 6mm dowels joints between stiles and muntins




I used a short 6mm Festool bit which was excellent to drill the dowel holes - plus finally got to use my father's old 6mm copper centre point which was extremely sharp and accurate




Then glued up the doors




Before tidying up the edges and inside corners




I think I am happy with these doors - by the time they are sitting in a nice cabinet with contrasting ebony handles, a burr-fronted drawer below and on my cherry base I think they will be suitable - however what would I know I hear you say. Good point! Also I have to cut 4 pieces of glass 530x95mm which will be a huge challenge for me. I never understand why I am so poor at glass cutting - anyone got some good tips?
Now I need to have a longer think about the carcass - matching some grain and thinking about the overall dimensions of the piece
Thanks for looking - ALL comments good or bad gratefully received
Cheers Mark


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## Newbie_Neil (27 Feb 2012)

Hi Mark,

I am really enjoying following your build and thought processes.

This is a glazing tip for you.

Thanks,
Neil (who is getting his coat)


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## mtr1 (27 Feb 2012)

Looks great, with regard to cutting glass...

Dip cutter in oil first, score once, then a little tap on the underside to break the joint, followed by lifting centrally where the join is .


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## TheTiddles (28 Feb 2012)

Here's a tip... Go to glass cutter for cut glass!

I have the same issue, I always end up making a mess too. 

Aidan


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## Benchwayze (28 Feb 2012)

I have been told, shown, and had the directions for cutting glass written down; many times. But I still can't cut glass. Not even with a diamond tip cutter. I think it's like lifting one eyebrow at a time. You can either do it, or you can't.


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## gasman (28 Feb 2012)

So it serves me right for not planning anything at all about this project.... I have reached my first major cock-up. Somehow the width of both doors together is 590mm whereas the width of the base (not glued up yet) is 570mm. So, even if the doors are sitting in front of the carcass (rather than inside) they are still too wide. Actually I quite like the idea of the doors being the whole front of the cabinet rather than sitting inside a frame - I think it will look cleaner and there are certainly JK cabinets made like this.
So I just need - either to reduce the width of the doors by about 1/2 an inch each - or remake the curved portion of the base - which would give me a chance to rectify Woodbloke's totally correctly pointed out (but at the time controversial!) observation about the grain direction. Also, the 2 inner rails of the doors are grain matched so I cannot make them narrower. Having said that, 600mm would be quite i big cabinet
More to ponder before my next trip down the garden
Thanks to everyone for the glass-cutting advice. I have made a radical discovery that _practice_ does wonders - and now - using oil, a single stroke of the glass cutter, a single tap and gradual pressure has resulted in a few successful cuts on scrap pieces. 
Mark


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## Modernist (28 Feb 2012)

Doors in front - much better


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## Gerard Scanlan (29 Feb 2012)

I reckon this cabinet is all about the doors and what you can see is sitting inside the cabinet so I would be happier if you did not alter the size of doors. I think that wood blokes accurate (and of course at the time, very annoying remark, yes I was annoyed on your behalf too) was bang on so remaking the curved stretcher is a better idea for two reasons. If you don't it will eat away at you everytime you look at the cabinet. Are you going to use glass shelves too? You won't have to cut them yourself as they need to be toughened glass which can only be cut before it is heat treatment toughened.


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## gasman (29 Feb 2012)

Thanks Gerard - I agree that is what I have decided to do
I have sketched the cabinet and have some lovely sycamore which will book-match for the sides - but I think I need some more for the back - not certain yet
I have not quite decided about the drawer(s) below. The 600mm width makes one drawer too big so I am thinking instead of 2 side-by-side drawers 100mm or 125mm high cut with a book matched piece of burr. WIll think some more
The shelves will be sycamore too as then it gives the contrast to the vertical mullion (I think they are mullions not muntins)
I agree about the curved cherry front - but actually I was not at all pineappled off at Rob;s comments -it was others who took offence!
Thanks again
Mark


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## woodbloke (29 Feb 2012)

gasman":2o1phdoi said:


> I agree about the curved cherry front - but actually I was not at all pineappled off at Rob;s comments -it was others who took offence!
> Thanks again
> Mark


Mark, apologies for being a bit blunt about my comment, but it's the first thing that hit me like a _'bolt from the blue_', so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Fwiw, I would leave the doors as they are and remake the stand. As you say, it will give you the opportunity to select a decent bit of stuff for that front apron so that the grain orientation is spot on. When you look at the final finished piece I'm convinced it's going to be very tasty but if that front rail isn't correct you'll always look at it and say..._"if only"_... but by then course, it's far too late. Better to do it now and get it right - Rob


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## gasman (29 Feb 2012)

No problem Rob thanks - really - I valued the advice
I have another query - sorry. I have never made drawer fronts using a burr before - I was thinking of cutting and glueing a 3 or 4 mm thick 'veneer' of burr onto a similarly-coloured substrate wood for the curved fronts of the drawers - that way I can book-match the 2 pieces of burr with no problem. Then I was going to cut half-blind dovetails with the end of the dovetail _exactly_ in line with the join-line between the burr and substrate of the front inboard - does that make sense?
UNfortunately I do not think I have a big enough burr to be able to utilise one piece all the way across both drawers
DOes that sound OK?
Thanks
Mark


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## woodbloke (29 Feb 2012)

gasman":1tefocfp said:


> No problem Rob thanks - really - I valued the advice
> I have another query - sorry. I have never made drawer fronts using a burr before - I was thinking of cutting and glueing a 3 or 4 mm thick 'veneer' of burr onto a similarly-coloured substrate wood for the curved fronts of the drawers - that way I can book-match the 2 pieces of burr with no problem. Then I was going to cut half-blind dovetails with the end of the dovetail _exactly_ in line with the join-line between the burr and substrate of the front inboard - does that make sense?
> UNfortunately I do not think I have a big enough burr to be able to utilise one piece all the way across both drawers
> DOes that sound OK?
> ...


That sounds like a reasonable plan to me Mark and with the ends of the dovetails meeting the join 'twixt burr and substrate, I think that would work. However, when you chop the sockets for the tails, you'll be working right at the junction of the burr and substrate, so if you're not *really* careful, you may find that the 3 or 4mm of burr will crumble and break, which would be a disaster and very difficult to fix and even more so if it crumbles at gluing time. :-k Food for ponderance... - Rob


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## gasman (29 Feb 2012)

Good point - but if that happened I could just put a ?cock bead I think it is called around the whole drawer? Think I will cut the burr and see how robust it looks
THanks again


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## Jacob (29 Feb 2012)

mtr1":14uk5rcz said:


> Looks great, with regard to cutting glass...
> 
> Dip cutter in oil first, score once, then a little tap on the underside to break the joint, followed by lifting centrally where the join is .


Clean the glass first, use sharp cutter (new if in doubt), score quite lightly in one pass, snap off over the edge of the table, don't try to cut off thin bits if you can avoid it. 
Re getting measurements wrong - use a rod (for the 1000th time! :roll: ) 
Looks good (though Krenov not for me I have to say).


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## Jacob (29 Feb 2012)

woodbloke":2phd6qh4 said:


> As Modernist commented, the asymmetrical arrangement of the door style and rails is going to look odd (in my view at least).


JK's stuff _is_ odd - that's part of the style


> One of the things that JK was fanatical about was selecting timber for it's grain pattern and orientating it within the piece.


 As have many/most cabinet makers been doing for hundreds of years. It's always talked about as JK's thing, which it isn't, it's normal.


> ......which (again my view) i.....


We know it's in your view Rob, unless someone has his hand up your back and is working your lips! Or typing fingers etc


> Doms...I think had they been around when JK was building stuff, there's no doubt he would have used them as many of his cabinets were dowelled anyway.


He would have. He was a bit of a bodger - not into "proper" joinery and cabinet making techniques e.g. the bridle jointed corners.


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## woodbloke (29 Feb 2012)

gasman":2b6yz26v said:


> Good point - but if that happened I could just put a ?cock bead I think it is called around the whole drawer? Think I will cut the burr and see how robust it looks
> THanks again


You could do Mark, and that thought occurred to me, but...you'd be straying from the path of righteousness :lol: :lol: as a cock bead (to the best of my knowledge but happy to be proved wrong) was never used by JK on any of his cabinets. No reason why it shouldn't be done of course but if there's a way round _not_ using a cock bead, then I think that's preferable...difficult call, n'est pas?
For some odd reason, there's two posts by Jacob that I can't see...I can guess the content though, probably worth disregarding anyway :-" - Rob


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## mtr1 (29 Feb 2012)

With regarding the drawer fronts, why not cut through dovetails then glue on the burr?


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## mtr1 (29 Feb 2012)

Jacob":33wno9kz said:


> Re getting measurements wrong - use a rod (for the 1000th time! :roll: )



+1
This is good workshop practice, and should be one of the first things taught.

Its something I do for every job, within reason.


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## woodbloke (1 Mar 2012)

mtr1":4q044je2 said:


> With regarding the drawer fronts, why not cut through dovetails then glue on the burr?


The problem then is that the drawers are curved with what I assume will be fairly thin sides. Gluing a three or four mm burr to a delicate, curved drawer is going to pose all sorts of cramping problems and would almost certainly stress the construction far too much...not something I would contemplate - Rob


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## gasman (1 Mar 2012)

Yes Rob I agree that would be more difficult
Can I ask you about coopering? - as I think the 2 side panels of the cabinet are going to be concave outwards coopered panels about 11 inches wide and 750 long. I have seen thread of yours where you talked about coopering but I could not find details of how you did the hollowing - did you use a radius plane - or pull shave, or sanding etc etc? Thanks a lot
Mark


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## mtr1 (1 Mar 2012)

woodbloke":v10a9679 said:


> mtr1":v10a9679 said:
> 
> 
> > With regarding the drawer fronts, why not cut through dovetails then glue on the burr?
> ...



So glue the burr on square then cut the curve, then cut dovetails?


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## Jacob (2 Mar 2012)

gasman":27vvldjh said:


> Yes Rob I agree that would be more difficult
> Can I ask you about coopering? - as I think the 2 side panels of the cabinet are going to be concave outwards coopered panels about 11 inches wide and 750 long. I have seen thread of yours where you talked about coopering but I could not find details of how you did the hollowing - did you use a radius plane - or pull shave, or sanding etc etc? Thanks a lot
> Mark


I wouldn't call it "coopering" really, more just a variety of raised fielded panel. 
I'd do each panel from one piece. The outside is easy - you can shape it with any plane, a no5 would suit best perhaps.
The inside might as well stay flat. The only problem would be reducing the top and bottom edges to fit the slots - spokeshave perhaps. If you wanted to hollow the inside you'd need a hollowing plane of one sort or another, with a round sole. If you haven't got one it'd still be possible to bodge it with other tools.


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## woodbloke (3 Mar 2012)

gasman":1a0pl199 said:


> Yes Rob I agree that would be more difficult
> Can I ask you about coopering? - as I think the 2 side panels of the cabinet are going to be concave outwards coopered panels about 11 inches wide and 750 long. I have seen thread of yours where you talked about coopering but I could not find details of how you did the hollowing - did you use a radius plane - or pull shave, or sanding etc etc? Thanks a lot
> Mark


If you're going to hollow the panel, some sort of plane would be needed...I used a woodie jack with a rounded sole, then card scrapers to finish. The jack with the round sole was a favourite of the late Alan Peters, who had several of different curvatures - Rob


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## gasman (8 Mar 2012)

My apologies for the delays in this project - I had a busy weekend on call and seem to have been late every night at work
Anyway have got a few hours done this week so far.
So I have definitely decided that the front of the rails of the base will be flush with the fronts and sides of the legs of the base - plus the side rails of the base will be concave so that the front corners still appear to be a right angle - like this (note this is still the old curved front piece in this photo)





I have already remade the front - a little wider to match the doors width with straight grained cherry and it looks much better - I will post a photo when it comes out of clamps tonight probably
The concave sides to the base will be matched by the concave coopered curved side panels 
The coopered panel business has gone quite well in the end - although only after making one panel and then abandoning it as it was not wide enough - so I had to go back to the sawmill and dig around until I found a 12 inch sycamore board and my choice was limited to 2 boards neither of which was as beautiful as some of the other narrower boards - which sucks.
Here was my first attempt. I thicknessed a 720mm long piece to 20 mm, then cut it into 45mm section widths - then planed one edge of each square and using the micro-adjust feature on the fence of my Record C26 combination machine measured a 88 degree angle with the horizontal and then used the surface planer to get the 2 degree angle bevel on the other side. Here are the resulting 6 pieces lined up before glueing




Then I glued these up in pairs to start with




Before gradually glueing those pairs together. I used polyurethane glue to minimise any glue line - don't like TB3 in this respect for light woods




Anyway it was then I realised that this panel was only going to be 240 mm wide - so if you added the thickness of the door onto it made the thickness of the whole cabinet only 260 mm which is not enough to contain all the gin bottles my wife will require - but also as the width is now nearly 600 mm because of the doors which would make it look very wide and yet shallow. I did try to grain match another piece to add on without any success hence I found another 12 inch wide, 2 inch thick sycamore board, cut 720mm in length off it, and was able to make 2 complete curved panels 18mm thick out of this which measure 280mm on the concave (external surface which will make the cabinet overall 300 mm deep which is what I want
Here are the panels roughly glued up
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/6963527937_d15d98ddc6.jpg[/img
Then in the absence of any hollowing planes, I used a rotex sander with 80 grit paper to get the dried glue excess off and sand them very roughly
[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7181/6963531393_949eb695c3.jpg
Before finishing with card scrapers - hard work but was very controllable and has given a great finish




They have come out quite well, although there are no medullary rays on this panel which is a shame




I will start work on the rest of the cabinet tonight - top and bottom and the rear panel which will have to be frame and panel construction
Thanks for looking
Mark


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## billybuntus (9 Mar 2012)

Looking good.

Regarding glass cutting (I make leaded lights so have cut a few miles of glass in my time  )

Hold the cutter like a pen (not that important). 
Measure your cut (mark it on the glass with a sharpie marker). 
Get a decent wooden straight edge (doesn't slip so much on the glass)

Hold the sraight edge just off your line, check the cutter is in the right place, hold down your straight edge and run your cutter along it. Always push the cutter away from you. If you here a grinding noise your pushing too hard! All your after is a decent score along the glass.

Now after you've scored it take the piece of glass to your bench edge. Move the cut so its just over the edge and gently push down to break the glass cleanly.

Hope it helps... It really isn't that difficult its just about knowing how you material reacts to pressure etc


Just remembered... If you haven't got an oil fed cutter do as the other chaps say and dip it in oil before cutting. Just use sunflower/ olive oil or something similar. You don't want oil everywhere just literally a tiny amount on the blade to lubricate.
Dip and wipe :wink:


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## Jacob (9 Mar 2012)

billybuntus":1rqf8f3g said:


> Looking good.
> 
> Regarding glass cutting (I make leaded lights so have cut a few miles of glass in my time  )
> 
> ...


I agree about all that except I pull the cutter towards me. I'll try it the other way next time.
Yes the noise should be a hiss, not a scrunch!
I'd add - lay the glass on a cloth while you cut it as it stops it slipping about and also avoids scratches.


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## gasman (9 Mar 2012)

Thanks guys for the advice - it is all stored away for future use and this Sunday is going to be the big glass-cutting day - eek!
Till then I need to sort out the cabinet and I was going nowhere fast with that bl**dy coopering business - not happy with them and they all be redone with better grained wood again - so the obvious solution was to finish the base which I did last night and today
Here is the base glued up which went fine - 8x50mm dominos used 2 in each joint




and here showing the curves in the front and sides




ONce this is dry I can use it as a template for the cabinet - seems much more sensible to me
Cheers
Mark


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## Modernist (9 Mar 2012)

Looking good. I can't see anything wrong with the sides?


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## billybuntus (9 Mar 2012)

Jacob":3jvmozgs said:


> billybuntus":3jvmozgs said:
> 
> 
> > Looking good.
> ...



You'll find you cut much smoother if your pushing the cutter away.

My local glazier breaks larger sheets on a flat table with carpet on top. The give in the carpet allows you to push down on either side of the pane and it breaks clean along the score.

I prefer breaking on the table edge as I obviously handle much smaller pieces.


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## Jacob (11 Mar 2012)

gasman":165oa16o said:


> ..... I was going nowhere fast with that bl**dy coopering business - not happy with them and they all be redone with better grained wood again - ......
> Mark


I suggest forget coopering - it's not a barrel! Just make the curved panels from one solid piece. The grain would look better too.


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## gasman (13 Mar 2012)

Thanks for the advice Jacob - the curves on these side pieces are very shallow so they could be 'hollowed out' as you suggest. However, I do not have any beautiful-enough 12 inch wide sycamore for them - plus I really want to learn a new skill (i.e. coopering). Therefore I have remade the panels for a third time and am now, finally happy - they are both 280 mm wide which will make the cabinet 300 mm deep at the edges and about 330 deep in the centre which should be fine. Although they both look in the photo as if there is a very obvious join - it is not nearly as obvious 'in the flesh' and I am happy with it. The last set I made were big enough and the grain matched OK but the sycamore was so boring - I was even suspicious whether it might be a lime board which had sneaked its way in to the stuff I bought.... not sure how to tell that
Here are the 2 final versions of the coopered panels 




I have also tidied up the base a little - used a 9mm radius bearing-guided coving router bit to make the coving around the top




Finally I have started on the rest of the cabinet - here is what will become the base of the upper cabinet sitting loosely on the base




Now I finally have a plan as to how to do the cabinet I should make much faster progress. This has been onerous for which I apologise - but to be fair work has been very busy too
Thanks for comments as ever


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## gasman (14 Mar 2012)

I seem to have got myself into a bit of a hole and would welcome some advice / assistance from some of the more experienced here
The doors which are all but finished, are 600 mm high and curved convex outward. They will sit in front of the curved sides. The concave curved sides are however 725 high as I wanted to put a 125mm burr-fronted drawer(s) below. Contrary to my first diagram I want the drawer front to be flush with the doors. So, my quandary is this: Either I have the burr-fronted drawer(s) full width (600mm - though it could be 2 or 3 drawers), in which case the problem is that the drawer front will have to sit in front of the sides like a kitchen cabinet drawer and also you will see the laminated side of the drawer front from the side. Or I have a more conventional dovetailed drawer sitting in a solid frame of ? sycamore which might look a bit weird. or I make the drawer front out of laminated sycamore which I think will detract from the impact of the piece - I really wanted a third contrasting wood to go with the ripple sycamore and the cherry
Thanks for any advice - gratefully received
Mark


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## woodbloke (14 Mar 2012)

Mark, this is difficult to get me head round  ...if you could post some pics (or even clear drawings) of an example of what you're trying to achieve and what you have at the moment, I suspect we could offer help, but without knowing exactly what you have in mind the wrong advice is likely to be given, which would confuse the issue more than necessary - Rob


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## gasman (18 Mar 2012)

This has been a most frustrating stop-start project largely because of work getting in the way. However I have a few days off and have made some progress friday and yesterday
The best decision I made was to abandon plans to put a drawer in the curved upper section which has simplified things considerably and got over all the problems I was bleating about earlier! There might still be a drawer but I will address that once I see the balance of the rest of the piece
So for the main carcass I cut & thicknessed the top and bottom to 20mm




Then cut domino slots in the coopered sides and the 2 bases








Then dry-fitted the sides cabinet together 




Today I'll do the back panel and think about the shelf, door catches etc
Thanks for looking
Mark


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## Jacob (18 Mar 2012)

It looks very nice but I must say you have made work for yourself by designing it on the hoof! Though I suppose this is a useful experience in itself.
But basically it's easier in the long run to design everything on paper first. It's much easier to change a pencil line rather than a piece of wood.


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## woodbloke (18 Mar 2012)

I have to agree with Jacob here  but in the true Krenovian fashion, these things were usually sketched out (if that) on the back of a fag packet, but it's not something I would do without a decent full size drawing (or rod) plus quite a few detailed drawings - Rob


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## Mr Ed (18 Mar 2012)

Looks very Krenovian to me, the Sycamore looks nice. I think some design development is fine, for eg the knob height discussions on my cabinet on the other side, but I agree with the others that the fundamental principles need establishing and fixing at the beginning.

Ed


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## Modernist (18 Mar 2012)

The draughtsmen are of course correct however I am guilty of designing on the hoof myself and sometimes you are lucky, as you have been with the drawer. The drawer would be better inside the cabinet in JK style, although you will need to be careful with the view through the doors if they are glass and it leaves the outside looking much cleaner.

I think it is progressing very well indeed despite giving yourself a lot of work with the coopered sides.

Keep up the good work. Original cabinet making is the holy grail of what we do.


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## woodbloke (18 Mar 2012)

Modernist":3b7pbza9 said:


> The draughtsmen are of course correct however I am guilty of designing on the hoof myself and sometimes you are lucky, as you have been with the drawer. The drawer would be better inside the cabinet in JK style, although you will need to be careful with the view through the doors if they are glass and it leaves the outside looking much cleaner.
> 
> I think it is progressing very well indeed despite giving yourself a lot of work with the coopered sides.
> 
> Keep up the good work. Original cabinet making is the holy grail of what we do.


I agree with Brian, this is going to be a really good piece of work when it's finished. I think designing on the 'hoof' is something we've all done from time to time and sometimes you can get away with it and at other times the whole thing goes completely TU...and then it's time for the bandsaw  - Rob


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## gasman (19 Mar 2012)

Cabinet is taking shape and going better. More decisions have 'happened' as I have seen how it is. First there will definitely not be a drawer inside the cabinet as there would not be enough room for all the bottles and glasses (!).
So, that being so I have glued up the cabinet with the back which is a book matched 240mm wide sycamore piece within a frame
Then I made some shelf supports from a scrap piece of aformosia - using an ingenious idea from one of the FWW Krenov articles 





Basically you cut a i/2 x 4 x 6 inch piece - then on the router cut a cove on each end and then either side and either end a groove....
Then you cut 10mm wide slivers off this




and then cut each end off and then hand carve the cut-off ends to form a shelf support - worked well and was quite straightforward
The shelf I had shaped roughly then used a neat little Japanese compass plane from Rutlands and the lovely little LN spoke shave to finely shape the curved ends of the shelf - I am not certain yet about the leading edge of the shelf - I think I may add a lip or something to it








So here it is at present with one door stacked inside but the cabinet bit otherwise close to being done




I would still like a drawer - which means either adding another section between cabinet and base with the drawer in - or replacing the front curved edge of the base with a drawer. It is 1350 high overall at the moment and my wife does not want it any higher - so that means a drawer in the base or nothing - I think probably nothing but will get the doors on tomorrow and see how it is
Thanks
Mark


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## Modernist (19 Mar 2012)

You should be regretting those coopered sides by now but you seem to be going from strength to strength!

I'd forgotten the shelf supports - nice touch.


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## MickCheese (19 Mar 2012)

Looking really nice.

It has been an interesting read, keep it up, on the homeward stretch now.

Mick


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## woodbloke (22 Mar 2012)

MickCheese":dqesnxkd said:


> Looking really nice.
> 
> It has been an interesting read, keep it up, on the homeward stretch now.
> 
> Mick


...agreed, but the doors have still got to be hung. I wonder if Gman has thought about the closure of the doors in the middle and made allowances for the overlap? JK expounds at length on the various ways of going about it...not something that can be planned ala hoof though as the centre stiles could end up different widths  :x - Rob


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## gasman (22 Mar 2012)

It took almost a whole day but the doors are finished - and look good. 
I used some knife hinges (my first time - loved them) - which were OK to install except that, had I been JK I would have cut the mortices for the hinges before glueing up - as a result I then had to cut all the mortices on the cabinet by hand - but it went fine and I did not make any mistakes














The doors fitted well in the centre after removal of bout a mm or so and it all looks fine - except Rob you have correctly illuminated one difference from JK in this design - namely that the doors meet in the centre but do not fit into each other as JK would have done - I just was not sure I wanted them too as I want to be able to open either door. Anyway there is a bit more fettling to do with the hinges - and all the other screws to put in - plus I have to get the shelf right - will have to wait till next week now
Finally, I think I am going to remake the base - but this time with a drawer in the base as I really want a drawer. I will leave it until MOnday pm and then have another look
Regards and thanks for the interest - it has really kept me going
Mark


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## woodbloke (22 Mar 2012)

Good to see that the doors went well...always a nerve wracking part of the job, because if you get the position of those mortises wrong, there's not really a 'fix' you can do to get out of it. Just for info, JK recommends that the carcase is cramped together dry in its final position and then the hinges are marked. It's then dis-assembled and the hinge mortises cut (usually by hand iIrc) The last pic is a little blurred so it's difficult to see in detail how the door fit
Edit - you need to also consider the door catches. JK used a spring loaded catch for each door which does work very well, but this needs to be used with a 'button' at the top (the same thickness as the 'shadow gap) so that as the door closes, the catch gently pushes it upwards against the 'button' so that there's just the slightest pressure as it locates...the pic below:






...shows the sort of catch that he used, this one though incorporates a small upstand so that the door can't get pushed in further than the 'stop' - Rob


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## gasman (23 Mar 2012)

THanks Rob - yes I am planning to do those catches etc - There is a FWW article which goes into detail of all the 'Krnovian' details like the shelf supports, the door catches and the door pulls.
I will take a better phot to show the door fit next time
BW
Mark


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## MickCheese (23 Mar 2012)

It's difficult to see how the top and stand 'fit', but be careful remaking the stand and adding a drawer, it may make the bottom look blocky (is that a word?) and unbalance the whole cabinet which at present looks in harmony. may be you will need to make the stand taller to incorporate the drawer?

Just my thoughts.

Mick


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## TheTiddles (23 Mar 2012)

This getting to look a rather fine piece. I completely understand the "not happy with it" idea, but from the pictures so far I'm not seeing the problem with the stand

Aidan


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## woodbloke (24 Mar 2012)

gasman":5692ru1c said:


> and then cut each end off and then hand carve the cut-off ends to form a shelf support - worked well and was quite straightforward



Now that's clever and a neat way of making some fiddly bits, but what I intend on the next piece I do is to make that shallow housing two or three times as wide, to leave a long, almost rectangular section. After cutting into suitable width strips, each end could then be parted off and an individual shelf support could be mounted in a four jaw chuck on the lathe and a round 5mm (say) spigot turned, then finally parted off to length. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work? - Rob


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## gasman (29 Mar 2012)

Progress is steady but I keep getting interrupted - work, phone, important jobs etc
Anyway the cabinet itself is virtually finished - I did all the little fitting jobs including:
Remaking the shelf which was too thin and not a perfect fit - this one is better with some more interesting grain




Doing the catches at the top of the doors - in ebony




Putting the little buttons into the base for the bottom of the doors to 'catch' on




Fitting the doors better




Getting the hinges fitting better too




Making the door handles - a 2 inch length of this piece of cherry will be used for each door - the grain of the piece follows the curve




So at the moment this is (minus door handles and a finish) the cabinet finished - oh and I have also successfully cut 4 pieces of glass and cut the wooden pieces to hold it in place




Now I can work some more on the base today - deciding if it needs a drawer and getting it to balance the top better
Thanks for looking


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## Gerard Scanlan (29 Mar 2012)

Despite the phone ringing and other distractions....coming along very nicely


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## woodbloke (29 Mar 2012)

Gerard Scanlan":i137ycb6 said:


> Despite the phone ringing and other distractions....coming along very nicely


I'll second that - Rob


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## Jacob (29 Mar 2012)

What, your phone going too? I'd answer it if I was you, you never know.


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## Gerard Scanlan (29 Mar 2012)

Have you got a date set yet for the cocktail party?


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## gasman (1 Apr 2012)

Some more bits and pieces done over the weekend. I actually can't do long days any more as I have developed worsening back pain over the last year and have discovered I have quite a big scoliosis - curved spine to the side. Apparently I may need surgery in a year or more??
Anyway, I can certainly do a few hours at a time - especially with a new orthotic support which is great
So, on with progress:
I added the handles and carefully pegged and glued them in place from behind. 





Then a few days ago I decided I absolutely was going to have a drawer after all in the base - so first I had to remake the base with 100mm wide rails rather than the 80 mm it was. I bit fiddly - and sorry phone was down whilst I did that so no photos - but it was fine to cut off the old ones, redo the domino-ing and reglue up. Then I cut out a 62 x 300 square out of the front, added shelf supports to get to this:




Then started on the drawer - and decided that some lovely oak burr would look great as discussed right back at the start - so I laminated 4 x 3mm cheery together with the 6mm thick oak burr I had carefully selected and cut
After glueing up it looked like this




Here's the back with the dovetailing about to start




And here's the drawer dry fitted waiting for the base to dry and to have grooves cut




Definitely homebound slope now - should get it finished this week
Cheers
Mark


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## woodbloke (2 Apr 2012)

I'm going to reserve judgement (if that's the right word, apologies if it's not) about the drawer until it's fitted and complete in the stand. Visually, IMO you _may_ have made a goof with the burr oak front. We shall await the outcome with some anticipation - Rob


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## gasman (2 Apr 2012)

Rob I take your point and I too am concerned about it... However, I definitely wanted it to have a drawer as did the boss i.e. my wife. I think the burr will look fine. Worst case scenario I can replace the burr front with a cherry one. We will see
Thanks again
Mark


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## gasman (4 Apr 2012)

I am almost frightened to post the pictures with the burr fronted drawer in case you lot don't like it!
However, now that I have tidied up the front, put on a handle to match the cabinet doors I am delighted with it - it is definitely going to stay like this. The only thing I might change is I might think about putting some kind of spacer between the base and the cabinet - might try that at the weekend
Anyway, here's the photos















Thanks for looking. Sorry if the purists don't like it!


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## Mr Ed (4 Apr 2012)

I love the cabinet, and I loved the stand as it was. In my view it was more elegant with the slimmer apron rail before the drawer was introduced.

I'm struggling with the drawer in a contrasting material - the grain of the timber in the rest of the rail has strong horizontal lines and I think it would have flowed beautifully into a closely fitted drawer, whereas the burr draws attention to itself which for me is not a good thing.

I think the handle works really well on the cabinet, but on the drawer it looks too heavy and the contrast to the burr draws attention again, where a more subtle visual composition would be a benefit.

I applaud this work as a piece of 'real' cabinetmaking, which is relatively rare on the forums, so all power to you.

Ed


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

Mr Ed":2bsiq528 said:


> I love the cabinet, and I loved the stand as it was. In my view it was more elegant with the slimmer apron rail before the drawer was introduced.
> 
> I'm struggling with the drawer in a contrasting material - the grain of the timber in the rest of the rail has strong horizontal lines and I think it would have flowed beautifully into a closely fitted drawer, whereas the burr draws attention to itself which for me is not a good thing.
> 
> ...



I'll second everything that Ed has said about this one as he's summed it up exactly. Overall, I think it's to be heartily applauded...as Ed has alluded to, there are distinct issues which I think I would have done differently and which you may, in the fullness of time and having studied the outcome for a while come to regret somewhat. I usually adopt the view that once it's done, it's done for good or bad and that's an end to it...however, the drawer and it's handle is the main concern and that's relatively easy to remake, n'est pas? - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (4 Apr 2012)

I really like the cabinet and the stand and I enjoy reading your posts because you are always pushing the boundaries. The only thing that doesn't work for me is the variation in the colours of the cabinet, stand and handles and the burr on the drawer simply because they are all competing for attention. But as a piece of cabinetmaking, it's great.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## SBJ (4 Apr 2012)

For what it's worth, here's my opinion. First of all, big pat on the back to you for getting this far I think it looks great.

I think that the piece is large enough to carry the drawer aesthetically speaking - however, it's the mix of materials that detracts, I think, from the finished look. I think that I would try a small dark knob on the drawer front, something inconspicuous, then possibly add some sycamore banding to the edge of the drawer to frame it. I think that this would also go some way to tying in the top part of the cabinet to the base/stand, also it will counter the effect of the strong linear grain of the rail contrasting with the burr. I'm no scholar of Krenovs work, so I'm not sure it that fits in with the general theme but that's what I would try.


Good luck!


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

gasman":3cf8l7zz said:


>


I've come back to this after a few hours (and a shared bottle of vino with SWIMBO  ) and it's unquestionably the drawer. This is actually crying out for a 'secret' drawer and easily done if the front is laminated. Say your were to make up the front (again :lol: ) out of five laminations...the _second_ one in you keep *out* of the bundle and so you laminate the front from Nos. 1,3,4 and 5. You then cut the rectangular orifice in the rail front (laminate No1 is at the front) and you then use the spare No2 laminate as the front of the drawer...see where I'm going? The grain will_ almost_ be an exact match (i.e. 'twixt No1 and No 2 leaves) so that if you're careful, the matching between the two slightly different grains ought [-o< to be almost indistinguishable.
The handle as shown on the current drawer is too big. In my view, handles, although small, are just about the most important feature on a project as it's where the individual first makes contact with the piece and it's where the eye is immediately drawn to. if you look at the handles on many JK pieces (though not all it has to be said) they're generally on the small, unobtrusive side and don't draw attention to themselves, but rather 'blend in' as part of the whole piece.
Mark, please accept these comments in the spirit in which they're given...this is a really good piece, but I think if you sit back and look objectively at it over the course of the next few days you'll see (I hope) that the drawer just doesn't sit well with the overall finished concept - Rob


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## Chems (4 Apr 2012)

gasman":1cpepue6 said:


> I am almost frightened to post the pictures with the burr fronted drawer in case you lot don't like it!



Do it for yourself, if you like it that's all that really matters. I just like looking at the pictures of it being made and seeing the techniques used. The actual look of the piece doesn't bother me in my enjoyment of the thread.


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## gasman (5 Apr 2012)

Thanks so much gentlemen for the criticism / comments
I really have no problem with people making negative comments - that as I have said before is the only reason I post my work here - it is certainly not to get smoke blown up my a**e or otherwise! I make half a dozen pieces a year - almost all for us and friends - so I value your expert knowledge. When I can afford to retire from my job I might do it a bit more semi-professionally we will see
I am still struggling a bit with knowing what is 'right' here - and if anything it is the handle which stands out the most (only fixed through one 2mm hole thus far in the centre so easily changed. Up close and personal the burr front looks better than it does in the photos otherwise it would have gone already by now. I have no problem changing something if I don't like it.
I think I might try a 2/3 size handle for the drawer first - and if I still have concerns then as Rob says my fail safe option is to put matching drawer front in. Actually though Rob, rather than what you suggest, I think I can remove the outermost laminate carefully - then cut an oversized piece of 3mm thick cherry, cut it longitudinally in 2 places so I get 3 long pieces one the height of the drawer and one each the height of the pieces above and below the drawer. Then I cut accurately the middle piece to get the front of the drawer and 2 pieces for either side then carefully stick top and bottom lengths back onto the 2 pieces either side of the drawer - that way it will only be the longitudinal grain where there is a join. Not sure if that is clear the way I have said it but you may end up seeing it!!
Thanks again and best wishes
Mark


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## Modernist (5 Apr 2012)

Firstly congratulations on a cracking job and having the bottle to do a live design thread in public. Your ability to change things on the fly and get away with it is amazing. 

I love the cabinet but I have to go with those above whofeel that the burr drawer is a step too far and confuses the design with too many contrasts. I think the lighter rail looked better and, if it were me, which it is not, I would have put a concave curve on the bottom edge.

All strength to your arm and I hope it encourages others to get into design and making rather than yet more plane flattening et al.


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## woodbloke (5 Apr 2012)

gasman":1c8ngr80 said:


> ... is to put matching drawer front in. Actually though Rob, rather than what you suggest, I think I can remove the outermost laminate carefully - then cut an oversized piece of 3mm thick cherry, cut it longitudinally in 2 places so I get 3 long pieces one the height of the drawer and one each the height of the pieces above and below the drawer. Then I cut accurately the middle piece to get the front of the drawer and 2 pieces for either side then carefully stick top and bottom lengths back onto the 2 pieces either side of the drawer - that way it will only be the longitudinal grain where there is a join.
> Mark


I can see what you're saying Mark and that would work as well, but there might also be a slight mis-match in joining the laminates back together again on the front rail. My method entails more work as the whole of the front rail would have to be re-made, but at the end of the jour, it's your piece and you the one that needs to ponder on how (if indeed you do) you're going to do any alterations to the drawer. Making a much smaller handle is a good start though, but whatever you do, be like an Ent...don't do anything in haste :lol: and if necessary make up a trial of the front using other veneers to see what the matching effects would be like - Rob


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## TheTiddles (5 Apr 2012)

That's a really nice piece, the drawer and stand could be remade, maybe thay'd be better, maybe not. There's something about it which isn't quite right but overall it's excellent. There's no finish on yet right?

Aidan


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## mtr1 (5 Apr 2012)

Well done, first decent bit of cabinet making I've seen on here for a while. I actually like the burr oak drawer front, and wouldn't change it myself. I like the fact that it jars people, Krenov was more playful anyways, and used to mix up his drawer fronts with all manner of different timbers. Malmston his senior who Krenov copied/was inspired by, was more anal(arts & crafts) about things. The clunky handle looks a bit poo tbh, could you not return the ends a bit?


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## gasman (9 Apr 2012)

I think I am finished finally - it has taken longer than virtually anything I have ever done - mostly because of the indecision, remaking, undoing, vacillation, heart-searching etc etc
All that needs to be done is to put the glass in which I will do once it is totally dry and waxed
Off and on this week I have tried a couple of different things... I removed the handle from the drawer, made another about 2/3 size which looked much better also tried one in sycamore which looked awful so reverted to a 2/3 cherry version) - but then I also tried getting a spare piece of laminated 3mm cherry and sticking it with double-sided tape to the front of the drawer just to see how that would look.
Although it looked good (and obviously the grain did not match perfectly although it was close) I actually far prefer the burr-front to the drawer. I did not want the invisible drawer that Rob talked about - I have done that on other pieces of furniture and I wanted this one to stand out. So that was the decision definitely made - with the smaller handle
OK - next problem was how to 'join' the cabinet to the base. Somehow I have lost almost all the photos of this episode from my iPhone sorry about that. I tried ebony discs 1/4 inch thick and 20mm diameter on the corners but it looked just wrong - same for cherry. So then I had a brainwave although the anti-burr sceptics amongst you may disagree! I cut quite a few pieces of burr 10mm x 6.25mm and long enough to go along the front, sides and back of the cabinet. I used the old sycamore shelf which was too thin to get some 1/4 inch thick sycamore and shaped it exactly to the front, sides and back and then stuck the burr onto the sycamore pieces so that they were aligned with the inside of the cove cutter. Then I stuck these pieces onto the base as follows




Meanwhile I had also used the same bearing-guided cove cutter on the bottom of the base of the cabinet - so then, once these were all dry, I used these to put 6 screws from below up into the base of the cabinet with slotted holes for the screws. I know JK would probably not have used screws but this cabinet needs to be able to come apart and be transported so that was my excuse.
Once the cabinet was assembled I used a Clifton curved cabinet scraper which just fitted the semi-circular 'recess' around the whole thing. I sharpened it repeatedly and was patient and it took a long long time but went fine
So far it has had sanding sealer followed by 2 coats of Liberon finishing oil. I will finish the oiling tomorrow, wax, and then put the glass in. 



















I think this thin 'sandwich of burr does 2 jobs - it joins together the cabinet and base and complements the drawer front making it look less out of place. However each to their own!
It has been a fascinating journey - and although several of you doubtless don't approve opt the final version, I think it has made me look at wood and its grain far more when making a piece - so that's got to be good hasn't it?
Thanks for your comments
Mark


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## Mr Ed (9 Apr 2012)

I think that's a superb detail for the junction between cabinet and base - very nicely done

Ed


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## Paul Chapman (9 Apr 2012)

I really like the way you've done that join between the cabinet and the base, Mark.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (10 Apr 2012)

gasman":35yinpvw said:


> I think this thin 'sandwich of burr does 2 jobs - it joins together the cabinet and base and complements the drawer front making it look less out of place. However each to their own!
> It has been a fascinating journey - and although several of you doubtless don't approve opt the final version, I think it has made me look at wood and its grain far more when making a piece - so that's got to be good hasn't it?
> Thanks for your comments
> Mark


I agree about the burr joining piece Mark and it does compliment the drawer front. The handles though, to my eyes at least, still need altering. Looking at the timber and the way the grain patterns run is I think, one of the crucial things ('specially in a show piece like this) that you have to take into consideration. I've got a cabinet coming up later on this year where I've done exactly that...the material is in-stick at the moment just conditioning a little further, but it took quite a long time to ponder on how the stuff was going to be cut from the board(s) to get the right figuring, 'specially in the doors. I've just got the frame to sort out now, but as that's in teak and I've had it in the 'shop for the last 20 years I'm not too fussed - Rob


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## gasman (11 Apr 2012)

Thanks guys
Glass now fitted and awaiting the final wax polishing then some restocking of spirits etc might be called for!




Cheers
Mark


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## marcros (11 Apr 2012)

Mark,

I have enjoyed your WIP. The final photograph really doesn't do the piece justice. I know nothing about the designs of Krenov, so it has been doubly interesting to see it develop.

Thanks for doing it

Mark


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## paulm (11 Apr 2012)

Likewise as Mark, Mark :lol: 

Would be good to see a better picture now the finish is on, looks like it has maybe helped harmonise the different elements and made quite a difference to the finished piece.

Well done =D> 

Cheers, Paul


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## gasman (12 Apr 2012)

Yes sorry that photo was awful
Here are a few more from different angles...
Thanks again
Mark


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## woodbloke (12 Apr 2012)

gasman":4nb434ci said:


>


Mark, what's happening here? :? Are the doors fully closed as they don't appear to line up with the top?..but they seem to line up with the stand at the bottom - Rob


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## gasman (12 Apr 2012)

No a trick of the photo - the doors are slightly open in this photo - but when fully closed they are flush top and bottom
Final shots...


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## woodbloke (12 Apr 2012)

That's better!...had I worried for a 'mo :mrgreen: - Rob


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## MickCheese (12 Apr 2012)

Now you have finished I can see the quality of your work really showing through.

You should be very proud of your achievement.

Mick


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