# Badly painted kitchen and F&B paint?



## Doug71 (6 Oct 2020)

A good customer of mine has just had their utility room fitted out by a high end kitchen firm, they have made a great job of the joinery but the paint finish really lets it down. A chap from the firm came and painted it after it was fitted, I don't know if he is their normal painter but there are loads of brush marks and build up on the edges etc. The customer wanted the hand painted look but this certainly doesn't look a professional job, especially considering what they have paid.

My question is they say he used Farrow & Ball paint but some decorators I know don't like F&B as they say you can't get a good finish with it. I always got the impression F&B is aimed more at the general public to use and thought a firm like this might use something different and get it colour matched.

The firm have said they will come back and paint it again but is it the paint or the painter or a combination of both?

Sorry just realised in the title I said kitchen, it is a utility room but did cost considerably more than your average kitchen.

Thanks, Doug


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## doctor Bob (6 Oct 2020)

It's the painter.


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## bjm (6 Oct 2020)

Hand painting to a very high quality is, from what I've seen over the years, a very skilled job. Not all painters are equal!

(I was typing this as doctor Bob was responding) I was also going to say you need to seek doctor Bob's opinion!!!


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## --Tom-- (6 Oct 2020)

There are painters and painters.


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## AJB Temple (6 Oct 2020)

I agree it's the painter. Many professional decorators though don't like F&B as they say it requires more coats. Brewers can match F&B and Little Green colours with their own paints, which are good quality and generally only need two coats over a well prepared, primed and undercoated surface. 

PS - Many high end high street brand kitchen firms sub out the painting. Or they do where I live anyway.


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## Jonathan S (6 Oct 2020)

Yes it's the painter.....also most high end paints cannot be colour matched as they use natural pigments.


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## That would work (6 Oct 2020)

The old saying... "if you can p!$$ you can paint" is completely untrue.
I used F&B on my kitchen really because of the good colour range.
It's a nice rich colour but I found that it didn't flow as I would have liked.


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## AJB Temple (6 Oct 2020)

I find the new formulations of F&B OK, but I prefer Little Green. The point really is that unless you compare two paints side by side most people will never notice. F&B in some formulations has that chalky look, which some love and some think marks too easily. I think in kitchens and utility rooms durability is key. Edge build up is poor technique. Possibly poor brushes. For a good article on brushes : Battle for the best paint brush | Traditional Painter


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## RobinBHM (6 Oct 2020)

Ive seen hand painted kitchens finished so well you can't see any brush marks.

Yes, you have a hand painted kitchen so good it looks like it was sprayed.

When I did kitchens, I cheated (clients choice, of course).....we factory sprayed them, them gave the external faces a rub down and hand brush after install. I've painted one or two myself.


I've been on site where Mark Wilkinson kitchens are being painted and they use some form of solvent based product - smells like a pre cat or acid cat.


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## Doug71 (6 Oct 2020)

Thank you for all the replies, they did say the painter spent half the time on his phone, guess he won't be working for the firm again if he is just a subbie.

Johnstones paints are good for matching F&B, they have all the codes for the different colours and as said unless side by side you would never know.



That would work said:


> The old saying... "if you can p!$$ you can paint" is completely untrue.



I know a really good painter, proper old school and grumpy as anything as good old tradesmen always are, I'm always winding him up telling him "if you can p!$$ you can paint!", you can see he wants to laugh but he just grumbles instead


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## petermillard (6 Oct 2020)

I think most painters’ gripe with F&B is with the cost, and the fact that it doesn’t fit in with their personal painting workflow. IME you need to use F&B primer/undercoat to get it to dry in a timely manner, and the F&B exterior paints are generally much easier to use than the interior - but they cost more. For me, if a client specified F&B I’d use F&B - not something colour-matched equivalent.


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## Artiglio (6 Oct 2020)

As the decorator at the first firm i worked for always said

” if you can p1££ you can paint, but can you p1££ to a standard people will pay for”.


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## Trevanion (6 Oct 2020)

But can you pish all day?


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## Ollie78 (6 Oct 2020)

I would say mostly the painters fault, personally I think Farrow and Ball is not nice paint and certainly not worth the fashion tax.
However I have found the single most important thing is the brush itself, it is almost impossible to get a great finish with a rubbish brush.
I only buy Purdy, once a painter suggested another brand saying they were as good as Purdy so I bought one, it was not. so now I use it as a dust brush.

Ollie


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## johnnyb (7 Oct 2020)

I've used f an b. what was the paint. there is matt and satin. both are far from durable in comparison with 2 k.
but finish wise they are similar to every hybrid type paint(water borne alkyd) 
oil based eggshell can be much better ie just a hint of brush but durable. unfortuneatly f and b don't do it. this is my 15 year old bookcase


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## johnnyb (7 Oct 2020)

I know a guy who had the English wardrobe co to do his hand painted wardrobe. the finish was inconsistent and matt. the painters usually get £1000 a week( back then) 
my old mate used to say I don't give shot how its applied.. spit it through a straw as long as the finish is good!


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## Doug71 (7 Oct 2020)

petermillard said:


> IME you need to use F&B primer/undercoat to get it to dry in a timely manner,



I used some F&B eggshell on a cabinet over some Zinsser 123 primer (which is normally good for everything), the eggshell dried but took a couple of days to cure/harden during which time it couldn't be sanded so yeah stick with the F&B primer.


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## pe2dave (7 Oct 2020)

New kitchen last year. A weekend, with an empty kitchen, it was a dream to paint with *nothing* to paint round. Super quick and my 'edges' (when they fitted the units) were immaculate


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## AJB Temple (7 Oct 2020)

Ollie78 said:


> I would say mostly the painters fault, personally I think Farrow and Ball is not nice paint and certainly not worth the fashion tax.
> However I have found the single most important thing is the brush itself, it is almost impossible to get a great finish with a rubbish brush.
> I only buy Purdy, once a painter suggested another brand saying they were as good as Purdy so I bought one, it was not. so now I use it as a dust brush.
> 
> Ollie



Read this article. Purdy are good but it is well worth trying the (much better) recommended brushes. Brush technology moved on a while ago as the articles are quite old. https://traditionalpainter.com/battle-for-the-best-paint-brush#/


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## Max Power (11 Oct 2020)

pe2dave said:


> New kitchen last year. A weekend, with an empty kitchen, it was a dream to paint with *nothing* to paint round. Super quick and my 'edges' (when they fitted the units) were immaculate


what paint did you use and any photos of the end result ?


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## clogs (11 Oct 2020)

in the early days I worked for a fire brigade as an engineer......
we actually built specialised vehicles from a standard body.....
anyway the painter who was the oldest guy there was given a brand new spray booth and then top of the range Devilbis spray guns...
wouldnt use em......everything was painted by brush.....
and woe betide anyone went near his brushes.....still remember him and his blacksmith mate...they tought me a lot......
good to remember the people that influence ur life.....


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## pe2dave (11 Oct 2020)

Nothing special? Dulux undercoat and emulsion?
Looks like pre units, post tiles! I was (lazy) guessing how h



igh the tiles would go.Luckily, units came down to top of tiles!


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## Doug71 (11 Oct 2020)

Glad this popped up again as I meant to update it with F&Bs opinion on what had gone wrong.

The customer emailed some photos over to F&B, their technical department said the paint had been put on too thick and overbrushed. The painter had tried to cover it with 2 thick coats but F&B recommended at least 3 thinner coats.


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