# Phenolic Sheet



## aldel (2 May 2006)

Has anyone stumbled across a supplier of 8mm glass filled phenolic sheet material as used on the WoodRat?
I have searched the web but cannot find a UK supplier. I know that it is used in Europe as a building material and of course its cheap in the USA.
I have found a source of bar and strip here at enormous cost as usual for the UK.

Sheet material at the right price would be very useful indeed.

Aldel


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## johnelliott (2 May 2006)

'Tufnol' is what you need, widely available

John


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## engineer one (2 May 2006)

tufnol is available through trend etc, but seems quite expensive.
do you want clear or opaque plastic, reason i ask is that your local sign maker may well be able to supply something suitable too. sure if you 
gave him a spec, he could source it cheaper than you can, due to his
usage rate.

paul
ps they also do magnetic plastic sheets which make useful places
to put rare earth magnets if you use them for assembly etc.

:wink:


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## Paul Chapman (2 May 2006)

Someone posted a link to these people recently http://www.collegeengineering.co.uk/Mat ... astics.htm

Hope this helps

Paul


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## desmoengine (2 May 2006)

aldel
i always thaught tufnol was trade name for SRBF (synthetic resin bonded fabric) as apossed to SRBP (paper)
it apeares there is a family including glass filled see this site

www.gcip.co.uk/EP/materials/tufnolglassfabric.htm

ive no idea on pricing
dave w


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## LyNx (2 May 2006)

what size piece do you need and does it need to be 8mm thick

Andy


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## Scrit (2 May 2006)

desmoengine":2l9rv2lp said:


> I always thought tufnol was trade name for SRBF (synthetic resin bonded fabric) as apossed to SRBP (paper) it appears there is a family including glass filled see this site


Tufnol is a "generic" name and is actually the name of a _company_ in Birmingham who manufacture various high-grade phenolic resins, in paper, cloth and fibre-glass reinforced, etc. Contact them for suppliers. Distributors for this stuff will sell you offcuts by the kilogram, so a useful way to get small bits. My local supplier seems to have up to 30mm thick in stock (with offcuts available). For cheaper (lower grade) Italian re-inforced phenolics contact Amari Plastics or Cox Plastics, although both will only sell in 1/2 sheet lots. In terms of brand I have machined Tufnol and it is a brand specified by name and grade because of its superior wear characteristics. 

Maching is, however, hard on cutters (especially the GF reinforced grades) and best undertaken with router tools specifically designed to cut it - if your feed rate is too low you will be making fine dust instead of chips as you cut it and that may result in burning in the cut. Needs dust extraction at all times due ti the irritating nature of the dust. Be extremely careful when sawing on the table saw as Tufnol has a tendency to climb on the blade in cut. Use only a sharp blade.

Scrit


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## CHJ (3 May 2006)

Also search on the word Paxolin, a generic name used for SRBP.

The above link for instance gives several stockists who also list Tufnol products.


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## aldel (3 May 2006)

Many thanks for all your suggestions.

I am aware of tufnol and its uses/ varieties etc. and I do have a part sheet that I am gradually using up but it is only 1/4 inch thick.
I 'look after' a number of signwriters PCs and CNC machines but they are unable to source what I am after.

Although Tufnol is perfect, it is just too expensive for experimenting. It is specifically the type of grey faced plastic as used on the WoodRat router plates. I want to make up some of my own designed plates. It is fairly slippy stuff and quite stiff but machinable. I am sure that Martin Godfrey cannot be paying the hugely expensive costs of Tufnol.
I have tried various types of acrylic sheet but it can be a bit brittle.
It does not have to be 8mm but at least close to that thickness.
I have also tested some of the nylon type and cheap chopping boards but they tend to be a bit too thick for my purposes.
The largest size would be approx 14"x16" and smallest about 8"x6".

Thanks


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## ike (3 May 2006)

Grey?. I think what you are looking at is probably humble PVC. It's cheap. 8mm is plenty stiff and flat enough for what you need. Iused 8mm (grey) PVC(u) for making some featherboards for my router table. It's tough, surprisingly stiff and plenty slippery enough to run a router across. I got offcuts from a local plastics engineering company. 

Using Tufnol or other fibre reinforced engineering plastic for this type of application, is unnecessarily expensive and overengineered IMHO, but if that's what you prefer.. 

cheers,

Ike


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## Rural Platypus (3 May 2006)

I noticed a while ago that RS Supplies now sell Tufnol, go to http://rswww.com/ & search for 'Tufnol'. They do 10mm & 12mm but no 8mm.

Not cheap though.  

No affiliations etc, just find them useful for lots of bits'n'bobs.

Cheers

RP


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## Sonic (3 May 2006)

It is possible that the material that you have mentioned is similar to Delrin, which is also known as Acetal. This is an engineering plastic that we use for some assemblies at work, and it is similar to Nylon in that it is quite rigid and has good sliding properties - we sometimes use it for simple bearings. Don't know where you get it cheap though  Maybe a local engineering company might give you an offcut from their scrap bin ?

Colin S


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## ike (3 May 2006)

I thought Delrin is normally white. I haven't come across grey acetal, (not that I've ever had the need to look for it though).

Ike


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## Scrit (3 May 2006)

aldel":31iiypx7 said:


> It is specifically the type of grey faced plastic as used on the WoodRat router plates. I want to make up some of my own designed plates. It is fairly slippy stuff and quite stiff but machinable. I am sure that Martin Godfrey cannot be paying the hugely expensive costs of Tufnol.


Should have read the earlier posts rather than "skimming".  You say that material has grey/white faces, so does it have a brownish Tufnol-like core? If so (and I think it is from memory of the Woodrat) then the material is actually solid high-pressure laminate used in the washroom/toilet cubicle trade and comes in something like 2.5 to 3 metres x 2 metre sheets (at around £200 + VAT ir I remember rightly). This material seems expensive because it is made in such large sheets, but on a per square metre basis isn't so bad. As to where you'd find it, I know a couple of firms up here who use it for cubicles, but I've never asked for offcuts, only bought-in full sheets from a laminate supply company. Made by people like Formica, Wilsonart, Pfleiderer, etc. The core is indeed Tufnol-like as it is a similar resin that's used, but there's no re-inforcing in there at all, just resin. Sign engravers use a similar material (with differently coloured faces/cores) to make legend signing for industrial installations and the like, although that stuff is normally only 3 to 6mm thick. I think that offcuts of Tufnol would be easier to source.

Scrit


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## ivan (3 May 2006)

I thought the woodrat type phenolic was made for engraving signs?

You could also have a look here http://www.westwardplastics.co.uk, they do tufnol in 2 grades (VERY different prices) pvc, acetal, ptfe, etc in their industrial plastic section. They do mail order, cut pieces 300x300, 600x1200 etc, as well as rod for turning.


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## Jake (3 May 2006)

Scrit":3n27uuhq said:


> The core is indeed Tufnol-like as it is a similar resin that's used, but there's no re-inforcing in there at all, just resin.



Is that so? I always assumed that it was paper and resin, like HPL itself.


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## Scrit (3 May 2006)

I've just taken a look at their prices - they seem "slightly heavy" on the Tufnol :shock:


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## DOUG (15 Oct 2006)

Phenolic Paper and Cotton sheets (Tufnol equivalents) are available from www.plastim.co.uk as are Epoxy Glass sheets (Not Phenolic Glass).  

Regards
Doug


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## Anonymous (15 Oct 2006)

I've seen several folk selling tuffnol and similar product offcuts on ebey, like the stuff they use to make scarborough fishing reels.


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## Lee Brubaker (17 Oct 2006)

Aldel:

Why not use polycarbonate....you know....the stuff you find in saw guards, safety glasses, etc. ? Usually carried by most plastic companies & at least affordable. I use it for router table inserts, bit inserts, router bit guards, etc. Very tough, not brittle, and machinable with standard wood cutting saws, & bits. With proper solvent it is also weldable, & when heated can be bent using a wood form. The downers are that it is scratchable & used as a table insert will over time ...sag so the table insert should be as small in area as possible if using a big 3hp plus router.
Care must be used when working it not to overheat the material or it can weld itself to your drill bits although I have never had a problem sawing it or when routing it.

Lee


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