# Cutting steel rod (16 mm) so it has a square end



## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Hi all, 

I’m wanting to make some ‘dogs’ and clamp-bases for a welding bench with 16 mm holes. My plan is to cut 16 mm round bar to lengths of about 20 mm, and then weld on a piece of 50x50 mm 8 mm thick flat bar. I need it to all sit square, and not have a weld bead around the base, so I’m thinking of drilling a 12 mm hole in the flat bar and filling with weld from the top. 

That all sounds easy so far, but getting a square end on the cut rod would make it much easier (I think). A ‘metal lathe’ would be the ideal tool, but that’s not an option for me. I have an angle grinder, hacksaw and files. 

I’m looking to make at least 10 of these, probably more as I add other jigs & fixtures. I can also see the need to make other metal bits ‘square’ in the future, so what I’m asking is: is it worth just cracking on with a hacksaw and files to square steel rod, or is it worth investing in a machine to do this? I’m space (and time, therefore skill) constrained, so I’m wondering if there is a better ‘ mechanical’ option that I have missed:
Something like a floor-sitting bandsaw would be nice, but not an option
An abrasive cut-off chop saw is an ok option, but not great; sparks, noise, smell etc. I would prefer to ‘cut’ than grind.
A cold-cut saw would be nice, but expensive
A ‘portaband’ would be nice, but expensive
An angle grinder in a sliding frame is an option, but I’m not sure how much better the cut quality would be versus a standard angle grinder. 

So are there any good options for getting a nice, square cut on metal that I have missed?

Any thoughts appreciated.


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## marcros (22 Oct 2020)

My first choice would be to buy the 16mm cut to length. eBay sellers are usually willing to do this, even if they charge a few extra pence. 

Alternatively, I would use my proedge belt sander because I don't have anything else suitable.


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## novocaine (22 Oct 2020)

how flat and how square. tolerances matter.
if it's flat enough and square enough then use a mitre box to cut with a hack saw and a square to check it.
if it's really flat and really square, use a lathe.

you could knock up a jig for filing to square if it helps. 

you be better drilling and taping a hole then using countersunk fixing that spot welding them, no chance of warping the top plate.

edit to add: step away for the angle grinder. this is not the tool you are looking for.


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## Ttrees (22 Oct 2020)

Drill an accurate hole in some hardwood off cut/prepared timber for your round stock as a filing guide, if you cannot get a bit of it to stand straight on a precision surface, like even the stock of an engineers square.
Turning it around will show any errors.

Worth a thought on welding vs tapping, for customisation of those blocks in future.
You might want to make jigs for filing those blocks also.

I still think I am unsure of the question,
Since a metal lathe was mentioned I've gotta think precision,
Best maybe to answer some more things in order to tackle some possible accuracy issues.
Does the blocks need to be precise in all dimensions, is it from ground stock or rolled steel you are starting with?
Have you a drill which will give you the accuracy to drill for tapping later?
or would you be best filing all afterwards in a jig.

I am confused about the comment about a bead around the base?
I can't see the issue with this, as you would be surely grinding a big chamfer 
around the rod so would have plenty of meat there for a bead, and have a structurally sound bench dog type thing.
I would be thinking that cutting and filing the square blocks to dimension will pose more of a challenge than cleaning up a bead on some round stock.

Were you thinking of ganging them up when made and filing to finish?
Tom


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Oct 2020)

I have the Lidl angle grinder holder/jig call it what you will. They're a bit of a trial to set up, but I can cut 30mm bar square and clean so I've a cheapo angle grinder set up permanently. This type of thing -








100-115mm Cast Iron base Angle Grinder Stand Fixing Clamp Holder Bracket Tool | eBay


115mm Angle Grinder Stand(Grinder is not included). 105422 115mm Angle Grinder Stand Holder Tool. Note the angle grinder is NOT included, photo for illustration purpose. Type：Angle Grinder Stand. 1 Angle Grinder Stand Holder Tool.



www.ebay.co.uk


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## Spectric (22 Oct 2020)

Hi there 

Why does it need to be cut square? Drill a hole in the base plate, insert the 16mm pin into the hole, make it a tight fit and do not make it flush on the rear but leave enough space to fill with weld and if the weld does protrude just grind/sand flush. You now have a pin in the plate square and with no weld bead at the base.


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## Boatfixer (22 Oct 2020)

If you already have the bar and are in the gateshead area any time during the week you are welcome to use my cold cut saw. If you need to buy the bar Metal Supermarkets on Team Valley supply cut to size at a reasonable small quantity price.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

marcros said:


> My first choice would be to buy the 16mm cut to length. eBay sellers are usually willing to do this, even if they charge a few extra pence.
> 
> Alternatively, I would use my proedge belt sander because I don't have anything else suitable.



Noted, I often buy cut-to-length, but also like having spare stock on hand in case I need something. 

I also have a pro edge, I hadn’t considered using it to square off this material.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

novocaine said:


> how flat and how square. tolerances matter.
> if it's flat enough and square enough then use a mitre box to cut with a hack saw and a square to check it.
> if it's really flat and really square, use a lathe.
> 
> ...



Agreed that an angle grinder is not great here. I think that welding will be ok; I’m TIG welding rather than Stick or MIG. 

I’m thinking a filing jig makes sense.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Ttrees said:


> Drill an accurate hole in some hardwood off cut/prepared timber for your round stock as a filing guide, if you cannot get a bit of it to stand straight on a precision surface, like even the stock of an engineers square.
> Turning it around will show any errors.
> 
> Worth a thought on welding vs tapping, for customisation of those blocks in future.
> ...



I have welded round stock to plate, but always fill with a fillet, even if chamfered. These will be going into a welding table that is essential an MFT style but with 16 mm holes, so I can’t have any weld protruding from the join. I’m thinking that cleaning any excess off would be more effort than just welding from the top. 
These will be used as stops/dogs, but also to then weld clamps on to for positioning. 

For the level of accuracy I need, I think the filing guid you describe is what I need. I can drill a 16 mm hole in the end of a wood block, then drop the hack-sawed rod in, and mark where an even height would be, or file in situ if I can clamp the rod there.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I have the Lidl angle grinder holder/jig call it what you will. They're a bit of a trial to set up, but I can cut 30mm bar square and clean so I've a cheapo angle grinder set up permanently. This type of thing -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Phil, I was considering this sort of jig, but they look a little flimsy. I’ll take your word that they work ok. As for buying a solution, I have now found that Evolution Rage4 is only £99 at screwfix, which is remarkably cheap for a cold cut saw, so I’m now considering one of those.


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## Torx (22 Oct 2020)

I’d just cut them roughly to length and try a few local machine shops to face them off (the scruffier looking the premises, the more likely they will be to help). A tenner or a 6 pack of Stella would do it.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Spectric said:


> Hi there
> 
> Why does it need to be cut square? Drill a hole in the base plate, insert the 16mm pin into the hole, make it a tight fit and do not make it flush on the rear but leave enough space to fill with weld and if the weld does protrude just grind/sand flush. You now have a pin in the plate square and with no weld bead at the base.



I need the plate to sit flat on the table when the pin is in the hole. I think from what you are describing would either need good clamping, or to use the holes in the bench itself as an alignment tool. 

Given that I will be drilling ~30x 16 mm holes anyway, 8 or so more is probably reasonable. That could work well. I might end up doing this in a few different ways and compare the results.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Boatfixer said:


> If you already have the bar and are in the gateshead area any time during the week you are welcome to use my cold cut saw. If you need to buy the bar Metal Supermarkets on Team Valley supply cut to size at a reasonable small quantity price.



Thank you for the kind offer. I’m currently going to TIG welding evening classes at the Gateshead College automotive centre on Team Valley, although next week is cancelled for half term. I’m now thinking that I can just get this done this weekend If it takes me longer to hacksaw and level than is reasonable then I will take up your offer, thank you. Otherwise I will post some pics this weekend.


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## Alpha-Dave (22 Oct 2020)

Torx said:


> I’d just cut them roughly to length and try a few local machine shops to face them off (the scruffier looking the premises, the more likely they will be to help). A tenner or a 6 pack of Stella would do it.



Good point. I had considered getting someone with a mill or lathe to clean up the saw cuts for me, and there are a few people at my woodturning club (Wear Valley) who have metal lathes who I’m certain would do it for a small in kind donation. However I like the idea of being able to do something myself even if it is a bit slow.


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## Torx (23 Oct 2020)

If you can mark it square (do you have a vee block? and a sheet of glass or something ‘close enough’ to flat?) you can file it square. Machinists would have to do similar tasks as apprentices before they were allowed anywhere near the lathe.


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## Peri (23 Oct 2020)

Im not sure you understood Spectrics reply. (Or maybe we dont understand the problem ! )

I'd do it like he suggested to


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## Phil Russell (23 Oct 2020)

A trick I use that has not been mentioned is to put a broad jubilee clip around the rod to act as a saw guide if using a hacksaw. Or, mount in a vice and use the ends of the jaws as a guide ... checking the rod is square with a spirit level.
Cheers, Phil


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## nick d (23 Oct 2020)

Hi
I have an evolution rage saw and that will cut steel accurately like its butter. Might be worth a look, there are many size /price options
Cheers
nick


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## Keefy. (23 Oct 2020)

Spectric & Peri have it!
Use a cut off disc in your angle grinder, you'll get it true enough with a little care.
I can't see you dribbling weld into a 2mm gap from the top (ie if you go for the 12mm hole and 8mm rod idea) and you have the added complication of trying to keep it true.
Edit. Phil russels trick works too.
Just my six pennerth!


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## AES (23 Oct 2020)

@Alpha-Dave: There's a lot of good ideas above, all of which will work I think - EXCEPT the hand-held angle grinder (fine in a decent "cut-off holder" though).

BUT without sounding like "Daddy" ('onest, it's NOT my intention to poke fun OR to lecture you), with a hacksaw and files you already have all the tools you need for the job. The "only" thing you need is the hand/eye coordination to cut of square then finish off (which should probably only need a file to clean off burrs in most cases). That "skill of hand" does take time to learn, but a bit like riding a bike, it's something which, once learned is never forgotten.

So you MAY consider it worthwhile to spend some time (and probably producing a rod or two which are too short while learning!). And PERHAPS to start off with, knocking up a little hardwood (or ply) jig to assist the early efforts. As said, once learnt you'll be able to repeat ad-infinitum with a high degree of accuracy without a jig.

So really you "only" have to ask yourself "Do I want to spend that time learning that skill?", or not - remembering that such skill of hand can be readily transferred to a million other jobs.

The choice can only be yours of course and I must say that if the need is "only" for hobby use, and IF you have many other things to do/make in limited time, then I can understand you using any of the suggestions above, all of which will I think work.

Perhaps I'm "lucky" 'cos I was "made" to learn that skill during my apprenticeship, but as said, if you don't have to, I wouldn't sneer at you for "not bothering" in a hobby environment.


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## rafezetter (23 Oct 2020)

Being honest, I am wondering why all the complications? 16mm rod is easily cut almost square by eye with an angle grinder (ensure all proper protections taken ofc) then file flat using some sacrifical wood jaws in your vice to run against. If you do several you can gang them and draw file or for a better finish wet sand.

If you don't have an angle grinder, then sure a hacksaw if you are a masochist! 

Even for a novice it's pretty hard to get it badly wrong, just take it slow and keep a firm grip of the angle grinder and buy yourself some 1mm thick cutting blades off ebay or Aldi (which work great) and will make the work easier and cut cleaner than the thicker ones.

and "just in case" - clamp the rod so that the cut is very close to the jaws, an inch at most - leaving too much overhang will make the metal rod vibrate when cutting, regardless of tool, giving a coarse finish needing more cleanup time.


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## AES (23 Oct 2020)

rafezetter said:


> Being honest, I am wondering why all the complications? 16mm rod is easily cut almost square by eye with an angle grinder (ensure all proper protections taken ofc) then file flat using some sacrifical wood jaws in your vice to run against. If you do several you can gang them and draw file or for a better finish wet sand.
> 
> If you don't have an angle grinder, then sure a hacksaw if you are a masochist!
> 
> ...



Although your points are basically true rafzetter, I do take issue with your use of the word "masochist" when it comes to using a hacksaw. "Only" 16 mm dia MS rod, and with the CORRECT blade - (18 TPI or less if you can find 14 TPI) - anyone who knows how to use a hacksaw properly can go through those, what was it, 8 off? pieces before someone else has unwrapped the cable on the angle grinder and mounted it in the cut off stand!!


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## NickWelford (23 Oct 2020)

Lidl have a metal cutting bandsaw next week 29th. Under £100. Wish I had a need for one.......


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## TFrench (23 Oct 2020)

I'd go with peri's method - by far the easiest, and theres no need to have them dead square if you do it that way.


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## steve1001 (24 Oct 2020)

Become a surface grinder.
Firmly fix the angle grinder on the bench, with the wheel at a set height above the bench.
Press the workpiece down against the worktop and slide it under the angle grinder wheel.
Takes very small grinds.
Adjust angle grinder for successive cuts.
You are emulating a surface grinder here.
Bench must be smooth and flat. 

Easiest thing would be to get someone to mill or turn it off for you.


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## Alpha-Dave (24 Oct 2020)

Thank you all. 

For this work, I’m going to try cutting with a hacksaw by hand, using a guide, and then if over 2mm drift across the cut, then I will file level using a guide made up from wood. 

Then I will use the 16 mm hole, as suggested by Spectric rather than my original 12 mm plug-weld method. 

This should get me through the first 10 or so of these. For future work, I’m thinking that either the Rage4 cold cut saw or the Lidl mini bandsaw, each for £99 is a reasonable investment. Both have pros and cons, but I currently have the Rage4 on order from Screwfix.


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## AES (24 Oct 2020)

Alpha-Dave said:


> Thank you all.
> 
> For this work, I’m going to try cutting with a hacksaw by hand, using a guide, and then if over 2mm drift across the cut, then I will file level using a guide made up from wood.
> 
> ...




OK, Alpha-Dave, and again, without being condescending, hats off to you for trying the (what rafzetter refers to as ) "the masochist" method!  

As my post above, make sure you've got a SHARP 18 TPI blade (or 14 TPI IF you can find one), and just a bit of practice plus standing correctly will soon see you right.

NOT blowing my own trumpet, but at the top of this Section there's a sticky about hacksawing and a quick scan through that will put you on the right path if you're at all unsure about matters like correct stance, stroke, speed, etc.

When it arrives I'd also be interested to hear/see about your experience with the Rage 3.

Cheers


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## rafezetter (24 Oct 2020)

AES said:


> Although your points are basically true rafzetter, I do take issue with your use of the word "masochist" when it comes to using a hacksaw. "Only" 16 mm dia MS rod, and with the CORRECT blade - (18 TPI or less if you can find 14 TPI) - anyone who knows how to use a hacksaw properly can go through those, what was it, 8 off? pieces before someone else has unwrapped the cable on the angle grinder and mounted it in the cut off stand!!



Sounds a bit like a challenge to me  but I would do it freehand for something that thin. Most of my rod cutting is with threaded rod but personally that's a bit of a pita when cutting with a hacksaw as the blade wants to follow the thread grooves.

(and you seem to be missing a couple of "e's" in your posts, so I've included spares.)

e e


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## HamsterJam (24 Oct 2020)

I have cut much bigger tube pretty square by using a straight piece of paper to provide an accurate line. Marking that line onto the tube with a scribe then cutting with a few hacksaw strokes, rotating the tube slightly then a few more saw strokes, etc, etc. 
You might be able to get acceptably square using a similar technique rather than cutting straight down through the material in one go.


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## AES (24 Oct 2020)

@rafzetter: Thanks for the spare "ee"s mate. I can't see any missing, but being the most commonly-used letter in English a couple of spares will always come in useful I'm sure  

While my comment about masochists wasn't really intended as a challenge I can quite see how it may look that way . But NOT intended, 'onest.

If you have trouble with hacksawing threaded rod may I suggest you try the tip in "that" sticky about hacksaws - use a small triangular file to slightly widen the thread where you're starting cut will be and you'll find "Robert's yer fathers brother" mate. Easy-peasy.


HamsterJam said:


> I have cut much bigger tube pretty square by using a straight piece of paper to provide an accurate line. Marking that line onto the tube with a scribe then cutting with a few hacksaw strokes, rotating the tube slightly then a few more saw strokes, etc, etc.
> You might be able to get acceptably square using a similar technique rather than cutting straight down through the material in one go.



Yup, that works too Hamster Jam. The only "caution" I'd offer is to be sure that minimum 3 teeth are always in contact with the job. Especially so if it's thin wall tube. Doesn't apply with solid stuff though.


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## HamsterJam (25 Oct 2020)

AES said:


> Yup, that works too Hamster Jam. The only "caution" I'd offer is to be sure that minimum 3 teeth are always in contact with the job. Especially so if it's thin wall tube. Doesn't apply with solid stuff though.



yep - used a fine toothed blade to cut thin walled tube between 1 1/2 inch and 6 inch diameter. Quick run round with a deburring tool, clean up with fine abrasive pad then pull through with rag/solvent to clear any dust/swarf and the job‘s a good-un.


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## A.R (25 Oct 2020)

AES said:


> OK, Alpha-Dave, and again, without being condescending, hats off to you for trying the (what rafzetter refers to as ) "the masochist" method!
> 
> As my post above, make sure you've got a SHARP 18 TPI blade (or 14 TPI IF you can find one), and just a bit of practice plus standing correctly will soon see you right.
> 
> ...


Why don't you mention a drop of oil as a lubricant too?


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## AES (25 Oct 2020)

A.R said:


> Why don't you mention a drop of oil as a lubricant too?


 
'cos I've never (OK; almost never!) found it necessary. Certainly not with MS anyway - but "your mileage may vary".


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