# Scroll saw - frustrations



## Lee J (6 Nov 2013)

I've had this scroll saw a year now, I reckon I've done about 5 or 6 projects on it, nothing too difficult. 







To be honest, I really don't see the point! It's more frustration than it's worth. 

A typical scroll saw session goes like this... 

6mm MDF, start the scroll saw and begin the cut. chugga chugga chugga chugga going ok this, start to turn a corner chugga chugga chatter chatter chugga chugga BANG! 
that's the blade snapped. New blade fitted, off we go again... chugga chugga chugga chatter chatter snatch and BANG!

I've had enough. It's going.


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## martinka (6 Nov 2013)

Lee J":3u8cm002 said:


> I've had enough. It's going.



No point us asking any questions or trying to get you on the right track, then?


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## Chippygeoff (6 Nov 2013)

Hi Lee. Scroll sawing can be a bit frustrating, as you have found out. There are many things to take on board when people start to scroll saw. Firstly your saw is not the best in the world. Its made in the far east and record have just put their label on it, all there machines come like this now and many other firms are doing the same although your saw is one of the better ones. 

With 6mm MDF there should never be a problem, even on your saw. What you could do to help over come the problem is to firstly polish the table with something like Liberon lubricating wax. If what you are making with the MDF has internal cuts sand off the botton after you have drilled the entry holes. It is surprising what effect the break out has if you don't sand the holes. The MDF needs to be as flat as possible. Blades often break when turning in tight turns. To make the operation smoother you could cover the MDF with clear packing tape, this will help stop heat building up in the blade and it will also cut faster. I suspect the main problem though is cheap blades. If you were to use Flying Dutchman blades you would see a big difference. I hope this helps and that you have a few more goes at it before you decide to pack it all in.


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## mac1012 (6 Nov 2013)

somethings not right either with you machine or blade but sounds like blade to me , you should be able to put a piece of mdf on there and just cut it without having to do anything to it 

I guess this is why we advise people against cheaper end machines , and I have been there (hammer) 

having said that you should be able to do some basic cutting , when you say it chatter when turning is it the whole machine or just the blade ? have you got machine bolted down ? 

what size blade are you using ? if its a really thick blade pinned and a tight turn it will not like it , I never had a blade break on a turn in fact I hardly ever broke a blade in three years 
also where the blade breaks will give you a good idea whats going on it maybe to little or too much tension 
I think it must be something straight forward that you can fix


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## mac1012 (6 Nov 2013)

maybe a daft question but have you got the blade in the correct way ? if not it will snatch like crazy


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## mac1012 (6 Nov 2013)

also if it a really coarse blade and 6mm mdf you should have at least 2 or 3 teeth in the work piece if not it will snatch and vibrate a lot more


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## scrimper (6 Nov 2013)

As Chippy says, although that saw has the name Record on it the saw is no better than the dirt cheap ones from places such as screwfix/Wickes etc that can be had for around the £40-50 price level.

I have a Wickes version on my workbench at the moment* and I can tell you that if I had to do fretsawing on the thing I would have given up after a few mins! 

Not only will a decent quality saw cut through the wood quickly and efficiently it will be a real pleasure to use; in fact though I own several bandsaws inc a smaller one I much prefer using my fretsaw/scrollsaw.

Looking at the picture it looks like it is using pin type blades more like a coping saw blade rather than the normal fretsaw blade which does not help to start with.

A quality fretsaw with a decent blade is a joy to use.

IMHO Record Power should hang their heads in shame at the badged junk they sell today compared to the quality stuff they used to produce in Sheffield!


(*I didn't buy it!)


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## Lee J (6 Nov 2013)

the blades I use are a Silverline Scroll Saw Blades, 24tpi, 10 pack for £3.25
they always break about half an inch from the top anchor point. 

The blade is in the correct way too, so it cuts on the down stroke. 

As for tension, I twist the tension knob until the blade pings, maybe too much?


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## Lee J (6 Nov 2013)

scrimper":12i0b48h said:


> IMHO Record Power should hang their heads in shame at the badged junk they sell today compared to the quality stuff they used to produce in Sheffield!



that could explain while I was looking for a scroll saw an old friend said I MUST go with record. Record are the best, you'll never have any problem with Record machines. 

hmmm guess he was referring to the 'good old days'.


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## martinka (6 Nov 2013)

Lee, I'd put money on the blades being at fault. I have some similar blades and the same saw badged as a Jet from Axminster. I can manage to use the blades if I reduce the tension quite a lot, but if you go too far they snap anyway, you have to strike a happy medium. Good blades such as the Flying Dutchman/Niqua will allow much more tension without snapping and make your "cheap " saw much more usable. You can buy Niqua blades from the Hegner website to try them. If you get on with them, you could then order the Flying Dutchman blades from Mike in the USA. Even Olson blades, if you can get any local, will make a big difference.

I've done a fair amount of decent work on my Jet saw, so don't give up on it yet.

Martin.


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## Jaypee (6 Nov 2013)

Hi all, just a my 2 pennysworth re Record scroll saws. The one pictured above is one of the many clones from the east which are all basically the same just in different colours and makers markings. I have a Record Power Scroll 20 which, while being in the same livery, was made in the US by RB Industries. RB were the originators of the machines that now bear the Hawk brand and red livery. The label on my machine says 'Made by RB industries, Harrisonville MA for Record Sheffield' Try googling Hawk BM20/26 to compare....they are identical. My Hegner using friend laughed when I told him what I had bought ( 2nd hand) but soon changed his mind when he reluctantly agreed to give it a try. He was almost as green as the saw! 2 models were available, Scroll 20 and Scroll 26 ( throat sizes inches) and have variable speed, quick release tension and quick change blade clamps top and bottom. There have been a few for sale recently on the 'auction site' for reasonable money......I guess folks just see the green livery and assume 'Chiwanese'. I certainly wouldn't swap mine, does all I ask of it, and more.....if I had the skill!


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## scrimper (6 Nov 2013)

Lee J":2h9t2c6b said:


> the blades I use are a Silverline Scroll Saw Blades, 24tpi, 10 pack for £3.25
> they always break about half an inch from the top anchor point.



The name Silverline explains a lot TBH. Sadly I found the quality of any Silverline product that I have bought to be very poor indeed and I now avoid anything with that brand name on them, I bought some Silverline power-sanding belts and each and every one I tried snapped in two a few mins after starting, I bought a Silverline water pump which went down with an earth fault after a few hours work!


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## Bryan Bennett (6 Nov 2013)

Its a shame that RECORD is not what it used to be,it stood for quality and long life of its products.It is criminal that someone can used a BRITISH name and produce ----it is a crime.

Bryan


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## cowboy682 (6 Nov 2013)

just my bit
this is my record saw 
l have never had a problem




see some of the thing l make f/b link below


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## powertools (6 Nov 2013)

Speaking as the now happy owner of a cheap old Sealy saw I have been through the same frustrations as the op.
I also had a period of time when trying to cut sharp corners the work piece would start flapping about like a tarpaulin in a gale. 
The main problem was that the blade was not running square to the table at it's sides I spent a long time modifying the position of the blade clamps to overcome that problem.
I purchased some Niqua blades from Hobbies that I have found to be very good but it takes trial and error to find what size blade is best for the material you are using and the type of cutting you are doing.
Lastly scroll sawing takes practice and the op says that he has used his saw 5 or 6 times in a year and that is not enough to gain the experience needed to overcome the problems.
I almost gave up with it but reading a lot on this forum and putting it into practice I now enjoy it all be it at a level below some of the work some of the forum members can achieve.
My advice is if you want to be able to get enjoyment from you saw is to accept that you will need to experiment and practice on simple things and move on as you get better at it as you will.


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## Jaypee (6 Nov 2013)

Hi cowboy682 your is the same as mine, quality machines, would recommend to anyone.


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## cowboy682 (6 Nov 2013)

Hi jaypee
l would recommend this saw to any-one l don't know how much you paid for yours l paid £150-00 for pure bliss l started off with a deco flex think l paid £120-00 no brainer,


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## scrimper (6 Nov 2013)

The Record saw that cowboy has is not to be compared to any that Record 'market' today, I realise that Record did not actually make the saw in their own factories however it was a quality made machine and Record would not have put their name on it if it was not one of the best, however today's Record have no qualms about putting their name on anything that makes them large profits no matter how poor is the quality.

It makes me very sad that the once great Record company has come to this, the downward slide started when the American tool company bought them out; closed the brand new £2million forge that Record had built and moved production to Taiwan.


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## ChrisR (6 Nov 2013)

Its all been said, you have be given valuable advice in all of the above posts. Scroll sawing is practice, practice and more practice.

I have been power scroll sawing for many years, but before that I started with a hand saw, then called a fret saw, (scroll is the American name) when given one for a birthday or Christmas present when I was about eight or nine, I am now seventy and can still get frustrated. In fact only this morning I gave up and did something else, because I could not cut on a line to save my life, but hopefully I will go out tomorrow and be back on form again. (hammer) 

Take care.

Chris R.


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## Jaypee (6 Nov 2013)

Hi cowboy, Huddersfield, we're neighbours! Paid a measly £57 for mine off the 'auction site' plus fuel for 100 mile round trip, was like new when I picked it up and could barely keep the grin off my face. I'm not an out and out scroller but use mine for mainly cutting birch ply gear wheels and other intricate parts for the wooden clocks I make. I started with a second hand 18" Axminster single speed which was ok but not a patch on this. 

ChrisR I agree, some days I can cut to the line with one eye shut and a used blade...the next day couldn't follow a conga! Deep breaths, a cuppa and a change of task usually helps. Leave it and come back later is good advice.


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## mac1012 (7 Nov 2013)

I have had 2 opportunities to buy the larger record scroll saw but I was concerned that there was no real way to connect to dust extraction have you guys that own one rigged something up ? or do you just blow instead of suck :lol: 

mark


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Hi Mark, I just use the blower (works wells) then clean up when I've finished. There is quite a large flat platform under the table that forms the motor housing/stand where the dust collects so there is room to custom fit a collection box I suppose. Perhaps the only 2 negatives of this saw are the lack of a dust extraction point and that it is free standing, if you only have bench space. Never regretted buying mine though.

John


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## ChrisR (7 Nov 2013)

Mark.

I use an Axmister dust extraction unit with an induction motor connected to a home made manifold **(4” soil pipe from builders merchant), this services extraction for scroll saw, router, sander and band saw. If scroll sawing I block off the other ports, and so on.

I also have a JET general filtration unit suspended from ceiling.

**Soil pipe and a roll of duct tape, is a far less expensive than dedicated dust extraction ducting. :wink: 

Take care.

Chris R.


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## mac1012 (7 Nov 2013)

jaypee your right it is a quality machine and I almost got it I am a bit fussy over the dust these days especially as I am kicking 50 in a few weeks time :lol: 

when I was thinking of getting it I was thinking of ways I could attach the hegner dust extraction plastic port on to the front as there does look room then I would have connected the white air pipe and dust vac to it 

it a lot better set up with its intergrated stand though I like it


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## Lee J (7 Nov 2013)

Thanks folks, I think a change of blade is the first step, then the tensioning. Maybe I'm tightening up too much. 

I'll report back


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## mac1012 (7 Nov 2013)

jaypee whats your experience of using it then ? blade changing vibration etc ? the variable speed looks as if on side can you reach ok when at machine ? also could you put a pc up of underneath of machine table near blade clamp I want to see what room the is to fit hegner dust port 

thanks mark


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## mac1012 (7 Nov 2013)

if the blade keeps braking just under clamp then yes you maybe tightening the blade clamp to much as too much squeeze fatigues the blade if you got a nice ping when you flick blade the tension will be ok I think you are tightening clamp too hard but it the chatter and grabbing that's a bit puzzling when turning to say its only 6mm mdf 

mark


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Hi Mark, sorry just had chance to sit down......work, supermarket, cooking all get in the way! Switch/control on side is not a problem for me but I am tall... left handed, vertically challanged peeps might find awkward. Under the table is approx 320mm across the stand,170mm from the table angle adjuster to the cam/arm connector with 56mm under the lower arm at its lowest point. Hope the pics show more than I can describe. VIbration is negligible even at high speed and blades have quick release top and bottom and slot in to a groove with a stop, nip up the knob, flip the front tensioner and away you go. The table also tilts both left and right to 45deg, hope this helps. Photos and this reply are from my phone because pc is tied up by you know who so apologies for quality/typos!


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Sorry Mark its telling me the file is too big? Will work it out and get them on here somehow, bear with me.


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Hi Mark, here goes again hope this works! 
John


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Aaaaarghh I give up.....upside down!!!! Sorry beer and chill time now, hope you can make something of them.


John


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## cowboy682 (7 Nov 2013)

Mark
you should have got it when you had the chance dust collection is from a Henry vac suction pipe fits into a hole underneath the blade on the frame with a little pan shape of plastic on top of that sucks all dust away then there is just a little dust on table top that gets blown away, no problems a truly great saw.


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## Jaypee (7 Nov 2013)

Hi Mark...this is worth a look, if it won't open as a link, copy and paste onto your browser. 

► 19:45► 19:45
www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRZ-0N7TIyU
20 Feb 2013 - Uploaded by Scott Smith
The Hawk 220/226 VS ULTRA, and 216VS Scroll Saw Instructional Video The Hawk 220 and ...
Cheers 
John


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## Lee J (13 Nov 2013)

OK so I got me a job that requires a simple shape cutting out of 12mm MDF using the scroll saw. I fitted a new blade and tensioned it up after watching a few youtube clips on how to do this properly. Started off and got around the first turn and onto a straight run and ... BANG ! First blade gone. 

Problem with this is when the blade goes bang it frightens the life out of me, it really unnerves me.

I fit a new blade and carried on... after a few more turns and twists another blade bit the dust. 
By now my nerves are pretty shot and if it hadn't of been for the fact someone had ordered this item I would've stopped. 

Now on my 3rd blade I nervously finished the item. I was so relieved to get it done. 

Scrollsaw is now going on Ebay this morning, my scrollsaw days are over as this machine has put me off for good. I'll order my shapes from a fella I know that has a CNC cutter. 

(hammer)


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## Bryan Bennett (13 Nov 2013)

What shame that with buying a RECORD scrollsaw which at one time would have been something to be proud of owning.Now being produced NOT OF THE QUALITY one would EXPECT of RECORD.Has put you off this GREAT hobby of ours.This has made me feel very sad and angry :evil:  

Bryan


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## Lee J (13 Nov 2013)

I know Bryan, don't get me wrong though I'm not anywhere near an experienced scroll saw user and I admit my lack of knowledge probably contributed to the saws downfall, combined with the fact it japan/china junk. 

I bought it to fulfill a job I'd got and thought it would be handy to keep in the workshop for cutting more intricate pieces but to be fair I hardly used it. 

It'll make room (and a few quid) for my bobbin sander.


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## john70 (15 Nov 2013)

If you haven,t changed the blade from the uploaded photo, it is in upside down. The teeth face down not up. john70.


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## martinka (15 Nov 2013)

Lee, I missed your post about breaking blades. I know it's no consolation, but I broke hardly any blades in my Jet (same as the record) saw, yet I've broken loads while using my Hegner, and yeah, I'm a bag of nerves too when it happens. 
I needed to use the Jet saw day before yesterday and it worked a treat with Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse #5 blades. The only thing that bothered me was the dust as I didn't have it connected to the vac.


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## OldWood (16 Nov 2013)

I do have to say that Lee's story is a sorry one, and as I am a complete novice user of the scroll saw I'm not able to offer advise. 

Rather I'm in danger of rubbing salt into his wounds in that I bought the same machine about a year ago (same = same source, not the same badge), used it a couple of times to do some simple cut-outs, and then started using it seriously 4 weeks ago. I did buy a packet of 72 blades from a Swiss manufacturer from Axminster for this. I'm building a Noah's Ark for my grandchildren's Christmas - the boat (500mm long by 250 wide) is built predominantly of 19mm timber, in my case beech, and the 40 animals of 12 and 6mm. The boat is built and I'm part way through the animals. So far I've broken just one blade and that was just after I'd taken it out out see if it looked blunt so was probably due to re-applying stress to it. 

Is it possible that hardwood is actually easier and more reliable to cut than MDF; I really can't believe that using the same machine and coming in at the same novice level that I can be so more successful than another wood worker ?

Rob


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## cowboy682 (16 Nov 2013)

1 simple rule is let the blade do the cutting do not force the blade too hard l think this may be the problem, don't give up try and try again as with all cutting it is just getting used to your blades and feeling the resistance try cutting thinner wood get used to your saw, don't rush we all break blades at some point in starting out keep trying you will get there.
hope that helps you out


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## dan1808 (17 Nov 2013)

i had the same problem on my scroll saw not a record i back the wieght off the motor spindle a bit where the link bearing is and it much quieter now


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