# How on earth does anybody make a purchasing decision!



## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Hi guys,
I hit the big 50 last Friday and my wife was at a loss as to what to get me.
Usually anything toolified would be great but I just couldn't think of anything I wanted or needed as I now spend most of my time in the workshop on the scrollsaw and have what I need to go with it.
A lady at work who was buying a nameplate then asked me if I did any woodturning and it clicked that perhaps I should get a lathe as it is the one thing I hadn't tried but had always loved at craft fairs etc.
I started off looking small with the Scheppach DMT450 at Screwfix and then things escalated!
I thought that if I was going to buy that perhaps I should spring for the extra £100 for the Jet version with a better motor (I also love the Jet tools I have already bought).
If I was going to spend £300 on that perhaps I should pay the extra for the Jet 1220 or the Record CL3?
Then perhaps I should go for the variable speed models and before I knew it I was considering the new Jet 1221 VS, The Record CL4 and the Record Nova 1624 (The belt change version!).
I have now read so many reviews and leaflets, and watched so many you tube videos that my head is spinning.
The only decision I did make was not to get an Axy lathe, as the difference between my Axy scrollsaw and my Hegner showed me why it was much cheaper.
I have a Record bandsaw too, and whilst not perfect it is much better than some, gives you a lot of bang for your buck and Record have great customer service.
I walked away from it for a couple of days and am going to try and make a decision today - hopefully but it is just so easy to get carried away.
I can't ever see myself turning massive diameter platters and bowls, as I am more interested in smaller bowls, boxes, ornaments and candle holders etc.
I am also not that interested in spindle turning although I know that may change as woodturning is addictive.
So I am down to the following:
Jet 1221VS which really does look like a beautiful little machine but I would have preferred a rotating headstock (would this really be an issue?)
Record Power CL3 to get started with and then upgrade it to CL4 further down the line with the variable motor unit
Record Power CL4 which looks like it would give me everything I could possibly need now and in the future (I think I am leaning toward this!)
Record Power 24148-PK/WIN 1624 Eight Speed Lathe (Cant find a great deal about this but know that there have been QC issues with the variable version) 
Advice would be gratefully received from anybody who has faced the same dilemma on what they eventually purchased and if they are happy with it!
Particularly from any owners of the 1221VS and their experiences as I really love Jet Tools and would like to be 'persuaded'.
Many thanks to all, I will let you know how I get on!


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## deema (8 Feb 2014)

If you have room, have you thought of a secondhand Union Graduate lathe. Cast iron throughout and weights a lot to keep it in place and stop it walking when turning things that are not concentric. A nice one should fit the budget without variable speed. This is an easy upgrade later when you get hooked. There is a nice sanding plate available that if you can get hold off turns the machine into a nice disc sander (it's easy to make one but a cast one is lovely).

They are a bit short if you are over 5'10" approx, and need a couple of blocks making to go under the head and tail to bring it up the right height. 

I love mine and I'm 6'3"!


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## wizard (8 Feb 2014)

Its simple, do you want Chinese junk or a union graduate


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## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Thanks guys, I hadn't thought about one so I have googled the Union Graduate.
Good Lord! These things are tanks without the caterpillar tracks!
The first thing that popped into my head was how on earth I would ever get it into the workshop - Muddy track down to it and a 4 inch concrete lip to get over.
I remember the fun we had trying to get my table saw in there and that came in pieces!
I do like the look of the Union bowl turning lathe, great if I don't want to do spindle work.


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## finneyb (8 Feb 2014)

What you going to use it for? A difficult question I know but of its pens and small stuff like that then get a small lathe.

Don't forget the add-ons eg chuck, jaws, tools and grinder - probably £250 - £350 
With pens and smaller stuff you can get by without a chuck & jaws - bigger stuff is better with a chuck.

Brian


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## NikNak (8 Feb 2014)

Hi Phil(?)

I've got the Jet 1220vs (older version of the 1221...)

I started about 5 years ago with an Axy AWVSL1000 turning the ubiquitous bowls, but very soon found i loved turning little box's, pens, 'spindly' things etc.

If you fancy turning a bowl you can still manage a decent enough 12" approx on the little Jet...









here's one i made earlier from Zebrano  



or box's, pens whatever takes your fancy....














Plus you can slow the Jet down to approx 180 rpm i think it is, slow enough to do a bit of thread chasing if you want....











Rotating headstock..? had one on my first lathe, the Axy, and never used the facility...


Anyway.... there you go.... +1 for getting a Jet


Nick


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## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Thanks guys,
Nick, Thats exactly the kind of small stuff I want to turn. I just love your thread chased pen so thanks for the comments and pictures.
Because of the interest for my scrollsaw stuff at work I have a shelf up by the door and put things on there for sale.
I did very well over xmas and it paid for the wood, blades and wax anyway.
I thought it would be nice to sell smaller woodturned objects too, and I would like to do little turned bird house ornaments
as I currently compound cut these on my scrollsaw and they take an age in hardwood.
I would also love to do little trinket boxes and such.
I live right next to an orchard so there is always plenty of wood available and I love the idea of making wooden apples and pears from real apple and pear wood.
I also have a nice collection of sycamore, cherry and holly logs in the garage which I could not bring myself to throw on the woodburner.
I have found loads of reviews today on the US sites for the JET and Good Woodworking gave it a five star review too in January so I guess my mind is pretty much made up.
I also thought that I should measure up my workshop to see what space I had left and the size of the JET would definitely suit me better.
I have emailed my two preferred woodturning dealers to see if there are any 'packages' available with chucks and or chisels and the lady in charge of the purse strings has
given me permission to order what I want.
Once I get their replies I will be ready to click that 'Buy Now' Button!


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## wizard (8 Feb 2014)

The union graduate comes apart into three pieces, very easy to move


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## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Thanks Wizard, wasn't aware of that.
I had visions the local farmer putting the forks on his tractor and getting stuck in the mud helping me with it!
I will have another look around ebay at the graduate.
I did see some photos of reconditioned models and they look stunning. Obviously a lot of love has gone into some of them.


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## woodfarmer (8 Feb 2014)

I think it is probably better, especially for a first lathe to get something versatile. You never really know which way you will grow. I chose an axi 1628 because I envisioned making lots of huge bowls. But just 2-3 months has taught me that once you get past 12-15" they become too big for everyday use. As it happens to turn very large bowls on my lathe you need the bed extension and That I bought with the lathe. For the last few days I have been using this to outboard turn of all things a baby's teether because it is mounted in a bit of a home made jig. I could never have imagined throwing so much machine at such a little project.







The point is with a lesser lathe I would have to find another way ( perhaps there is even a better way) but this is how I am making it.


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## dickm (8 Feb 2014)

With regard to swivelling head, I would strongly recommend going for one unless you have a really big workshop. Trying to turn bowls over the main bed always feels horribly restricted to me, whereas with a swivelling head, it's easy (not saying the results are good, but you know what I mean). Of course, if you've got the room to stand to the left of a fixed head like the Graduate, then you've got no problems.


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## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Well I looked all over the web at Union Graduates and prices etc. They certainly are well made machines but I get the feeling that I may end up spending more time refurbing and working on the lathe than making things with it and at the moment I want something ready to go and probably not that big.
I have decided to go for the Jet 1221VS and emailed Ockenden Timber and Turners Cabin to see if they can offer a package.
John at Ockenden has emailed back with a nice package and Ian at Turners Cabin has also responded and is getting back to me with a couple of options.
Then I just need to pick the best package and order it.
Thanks for your help guys, I reckon I will still keep my eye open in the future for a nice Union Graduate that I could spend some time on as a project.
Hopefully I will soon be posting pictures of turned work!
All the best,
Phil


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## Sheptonphil (8 Feb 2014)

woodfarmer":7gtvu68v said:


> For the last few days I have been using this to outboard turn of all things a baby's teether because it is mounted in a bit of a home made jig. .



Knowing the size of the headstock pictured there, the teether must be 12" long, is it for a gorilla baby?


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## Sheptonphil (8 Feb 2014)

Hi Nick

Which pen kit is used to make the gorgeous chrome, gold and burr wood one, and where do you buy your kits from?

Phil


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## woodfarmer (8 Feb 2014)

Sheptonphil":2taeotgb said:


> woodfarmer":2taeotgb said:
> 
> 
> > For the last few days I have been using this to outboard turn of all things a baby's teether because it is mounted in a bit of a home made jig. .
> ...




LOL. I am frequently criticised for "over engineering" things I make. This one started off as a foot long 4"x4" square post. It will be smaller than this when finished. I was concerned at the weight, but the bit that is left from so much wood is extremely light.
the idea is to have lots of different tactile surface types to learn to deal with the baby will have the centre stem to handle, a ball and of course the ring.
I feel there may well be an easier way, but this is what popped into my head first.


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## redmoorphil (8 Feb 2014)

Wood farmer, I hate to say it because it is obviously too late but that handle would have been great with a couple of captive rings turned onto it. Are yoiu in the mood for a MK II? ;o)


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## NikNak (9 Feb 2014)

Hi Sheptonphil....


That particular pen was made using an Axminster Empress pen kit...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/empress-pens
They were on offer a few years ago and i bought half a doz or so.

That was my entry for a little comp on here run by Mr Dodge. He supplied a couple of pieces of burr oak and said who ever _he_ decided made the best pen would win a prize.... and mine won  what did i win.? a load of pen blanks :mrgreen:



Here's my latest pen (using the last of these kits)...













Turned from a piece of Lignum Vitae (part of a lawn green bowling ball actually..)


I'll present it in one of these cases...

http://www.turners-retreat.co.uk/pen-ma ... -s-pen-box

which i've modified slightly....





as the pen 'clonked' in the box i decided to flock line it.... doesn't 'clonk' anymore 

It's a gift for a chap at work who's celebrating a 60th birthday, and he loves doing crossword puzzels ccasion4: 



Mainly i buy my pen kits from Turners Retreat as i find the quality is outstanding. But will admit to buying from funeturnz on ebay when i first started pen making. The kits are err more reasonably priced lets say, but as with everything in life you get what you pay for. So if you are just starting out then i would suggest trying some of their pen kits as it 'affords' you a mistake or two at little cost. Then, once you're happily proficient, buy a couple of the TR Gent's kits and make a set of theirs....









Nick


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## Grahamshed (9 Feb 2014)

I know the post was not intended for me but those are some beautiful pens, specially the last set.


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## woodfarmer (9 Feb 2014)

redmoorphil":1kzb10gd said:


> Wood farmer, I hate to say it because it is obviously too late but that handle would have been great with a couple of captive rings turned onto it. Are yoiu in the mood for a MK II? ;o)



for the moment, captive rings are beyond my capabilities


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## Sheptonphil (9 Feb 2014)

Nick

Thanks for the pics, I've bought kits from Funeturnz, the Gents were ok, the Jnr Gents I've had two threads break in the lids and all but given up with the Sierras. I have used the slim twist and Princess from Axi, both were good quality. The Pink Princess really did produce a nice gift pen. I will buy the dearer kits in future, the work is wasted on the lower quality kits, just didn't know where good kits are in the UK, as many here seem to buy from Oz. 

Phil


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## chipmunk (10 Feb 2014)

Sorry to drag you back to the OP's question and the proposal of a Graduate  

The other problem with Graduates, apart from being built for the short of stature and without EVS, is the availability of chucks. 

The Grad has a rather antiquated 1 1/2" x 6TPI Left and Right hand Whitworth thread on outboard & inboard ends respectively. This can reduce your chucking options quite considerably.

HTH
Jon


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## redmoorphil (10 Feb 2014)

Hi guys, finally sorted.
I had the chance of a nice Wivamac so I am going to pick it up on Saturday.
Really excited now and looking forward to getting started in turning.
Just need to rearrange the workshop so I can get it in.
Thanks for all your comments.
Phil


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## woodfarmer (10 Feb 2014)

chipmunk":b1o87hih said:


> Sorry to drag you back to the OP's question and the proposal of a Graduate
> 
> The other problem with Graduates, apart from being built for the short of stature and without EVS, is the availability of chucks.
> 
> ...



The answer to this is to get an adapter that has the 1 1/2" WW female thread and a modern (say 33x3.5mm) male end. This might not be so easy as it is very common to have both inch and metric threading available on the same lathe. My lathe only does inch threads so the graduate side wouldn't be a problem but I cant do metric. This is a nuisance for me as I would like to be able to move stuff from one lathe to the other. Perhaps I should have gone for a graduate


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## Random Orbital Bob (10 Feb 2014)

redmoorphil":6lgt7wu1 said:


> Hi guys, finally sorted.
> I had the chance of a nice Wivamac so I am going to pick it up on Saturday.
> Really excited now and looking forward to getting started in turning.
> Just need to rearrange the workshop so I can get it in.
> ...



Excellent. Best of luck Phil. Don't be shy with those pics.


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## Grahamshed (10 Feb 2014)

Good choice.


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