# Byrons Official Workshop Build Thread



## ByronBlack

I thought i'd start this at the beginning and document everything as I go so that it will add to the already good amount of information currently on the forum for workshop builds.

After some initial from help you guy's and Espeically thanks to Dave for doing such a great job on Sketchup, i'm ready to start building. I'm taking a modular approach to the build, trying to do a section each day, hopefully i'll get the bulk of the work done during my two weeks break from work. 

I'll also be adding a full materials lists, suppliers, and costs. And solutions to any problems along the way. Please all feel free to contribute to this thread in means of questions, info, etc. I'll try my best to answer any questions along the way 

Day 1.

I've mostly been preparing the ground for the concrete plinths which the floor joists (6x2) will be placed on. This involved digging away the dirt next to the fence, and also breaking and removing the ye olde concrete path, i'll probably use some of the hardcore from this path to bulk out the plinths.

Photo's to follow in an edit.


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## wizer

well done Byron and good luck..... not jelous at all, not one bit :mrgreen:


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## dedee

BB,
there are always thing to learn from others workshop builds. I will (and have been) following yours and Wizer's builds with interest.

Andy


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## SketchUp Guru

I'm going to be following this thread for sure. 

BTW, I made a couple of modifications to the SKP. I found some odd ball things on the south wall that I shouldn't have missed earlier. I'll send the file along.

Just a note, too. My thinking about the attic area is that you would put in whatever planking before putting on the roof sheathing. This will give you a place to stand while working on the sheathing. I did that on my shed and found it to be very helpful.


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## ByronBlack

Dave - great tip! Thanks i'll bear that in mind.

Glad you're all interested, i'll try not to waffle too much!


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## garywayne

Byron, I'm in desperate need of a workshop and will be watching with great interest.

Looking forward to the next installment.


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## SketchUp Guru

You had to mention waffles. Now I'm hungry. :roll: :lol: 

Gary, why don't you buy a copy of the plans from Byron and build the same shed design? It could be a race. The rest of us could make smart remarks to both of you and egg you on.


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## PowerTool

Dave R":1xg5q1rh said:


> It could be a race. The rest of us could make smart remarks to both of you and egg you on.



And take bets on the winner :wink: 

Andrew


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## ByronBlack

lol - does the winner get a prize? Maybe a forum sponsored spending spree at Lie Nielsen or Festool perhaps? :lol: :lol: 

*Extra Info for Day 1*

I've had to make a couple of changes to the design and dimensions of the workshop. SWMBO has forbidden me from making it 13ft high as it will the highest thing in the garden in our entire street - and to be honest it really is perhaps a touch too high (I was hoping to get around by not mentioning it until it was done)

So, I'm making the height a max of 10', this is achieved by reducing the wall from 8ft to 7ft, and taking a couple of foot of the roof height which will reduce the 'attic' space slightly, but it's a good compromise so i'm quite happy.

I have loads and loads of hardcore going spare, if anyone on the forum fancies coming to collect any of it free of charge, your more than welcome, i'm going to be storing it in two large hippo bags, and if no-one needs it, then its going to be collected at the end of the week, just give me a PM if anyone needs any of it.

End of Day 1 Summary

I'm bloody cream crackered!

Piccies!

Getting to grips with the hired Hilti Breaker Drill:







After an hour or so and some back breaking effort, most of the concrete path is broken and moved out of the way - you can also see the results of the digging out of the soil on the left hand side: (harder than the concrete!)






and me:


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## SketchUp Guru

Couldn't you put up a 20' flag pole? That'd make the shed not the tallest thing in the garden. 

Ideas? I'm full of it.


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## JFC

May i suggest putting a flat roof on and keeping the walls over 8' . 10' and a flat roof will let you swing an 8'x 4' sheet around .
Just my 2p worth .


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## Alf

Yeah, I'd try and keep as much wall height as possible myself, even at the expense of that handy roof space storage. Anyway, looks like fun - well fun for us seeing you do all the work anyway... :wink: Looking forward to see it progressing.

Cheers, Alf


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## ByronBlack

A flat roof is an idea I suppose, but my only concern with that is that it's a bit ugly compared to a pitched roof - but on the other hand would also be cheaper.. but then I have to worry about the rain and snow run-off and because SWMBO is having a greenhouse directly behind the workshop I couldn't have the run-off running backwards to the greenhouse..


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## WellsWood

JFC":enndlqyc said:


> May i suggest putting a flat roof on and keeping the walls over 8' . 10' and a flat roof will let you swing an 8'x 4' sheet around .
> Just my 2p worth .



Gets my vote too. In my experience, low headroom is the first thing you'll wish you hadn't done. My workshop has 2.3m (7'6" in old money) from floor to the underside of 8x2 roof joists, with a flat roof on top. I've lost track of how many times I've stood in the garden staring at the workshop desperately trying to think of a practical way of raising the roof even another foot.

Watching with interest as your build progresses.

Mark.


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## WellsWood

ByronBlack":lo7eke0v said:


> I couldn't have the run-off running backwards to the greenhouse..



...I'd have thought a runoff into a water butt for the plants would be ideal then, especially given our seemingly endless water shortage.


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## Nick W

Don't forget that 'flat' doesn't have to be dead-flat (which is probaly best avoided). Go for a shallow pitch - you won't get standing water problems, and can still keep decent height over the entire workshop.


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## SketchUp Guru

Byron, you could knock about nine inches off the height by modifying the trusses to remove the peak. I could re-draw the trusses for that if you want.

I think you should try to keep the wall height at 8' too. I'm over 6' tall so I would miss that extra foot of clearance.

Do you think there's any talking your bride into letting your shed (and the back of her greehouse) be the tallest thing in the neighborhood? 

ps Got your e-mail and I'll respond when I get to work.

Dave


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## wizer

yep another vote for the height here. I have done everything I can to gain extra height. I'm 6ft 4in so more the better.


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## SketchUp Guru

Here are a couple of ideas to help you maintain some headroom while lowering the overall height.





Dave

ps. I found another error in my original drawing. I've fixed it and will forward.


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## ByronBlack

Hi guy's

Cheers for all the ideas/comments regarding the roof, i'll have to sleep on it and put some more thought to it over my kellogs in the morning.

Thanks for the revised models Dave - i'll check them out tomorrow.

And now, the next thrilling installment:

*Day 2 Update*

So, yesterday was mostly breaking up the old concrete path, and digging away some of the soil to widen the area where the base of the shed will be put.

Today we (including SWMBO) spent most of the day out and about gathering together materials and supplies, and then shovelling all the old soil and broken concrete path into a mega-hippobag. The shovel we had was too small and it felt like I was trying to dig up the sahara with a spoon. It took all afternoon and into the evening. 

No piccies today as it's almost exactly like the very first picture before we did anything, the only difference is that the path is gone, the soil is gone, my will to shovel has died and the area is now completely clean and ready for the concrete plinths.

Things I wish I did:

Hired a couple of polish or bulgarian labourers and a mini-digger to shift all the stuff.

*Day 2 Summary*

I'm even more cream crackered, but now excited as the construction will start tomorrow proper.

Also, throughout the day i've been putting more thought to a number of issued, namely the roof, the placement of the plints, the placement of the threaded rods so that they don't get placed where any up-rights are and keeping the neighbours sweet with gifts of plants and shrubs from the garden that are no longer in the missus planting plans.

Looking forward to day 3 to see some real progress. I intend to have all the plinths concreted and threaded rods placed, and if the concrete is dry enough by the end of the day, the joists will be placed. Thursday will see me take delivery of the 1million meters of 2x4 for the frames, so by the weekend I should have all the walls up, roof joists fitted and floor laid.

Also, whilest i'm contructing the workshop, i'm also in the middle of renovating the house, and landscaping the garden, it's sheer utter madness, but bloody good fun, the house feels like a builders yard!! No 'geezer' called 'smiffy' though to help out - maybe I can hire one of them from somewhere, and pay in tea and bacon butties..

I'm rambling now so i'm closing this captains log, have fun kids, and remember, it's dangerous to run with scissors!


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## ByronBlack

* Day 3 Summary *

Yesterday I was a bit annoyed and frustrated with the hardwork of clearing, and not seeing much in the way of physical progress, so today I was looking forward to starting work as the base was now clear to put down the timbers.

I've made a small change to the original plan. Instead of making concrete plinths and laying the 6x2 timbers across them. I creosoted 2x4's and bolted 2 together to make a 4x4 plinth - these were then concreted to the original base. This was decided because it was quicker, easier and seeing as the original concrete was almost perfectly level the timbers just had to be held in place.

So, that was the main job today. the 6x2's were cut to length and will be placed into position tomorrow.

No more work can take place until Friday now as the woodyard didn't have enough timber, so no delivery tomorrow (thursday).

The other changes to the original plan are:

1. I'll be using a flat roof afterall. The left-hand side wall will be 8'8 and the right-hand side wall will be 8'4, this will give me the run-off to the right, where there will be guttering to take any water to the water butt that belongs to the missus

2. I'm extending the length of the shed to 18' from 16' and doing away with the front veranda - this is so I don't have to cut away another 2' of hard soil - i'm fed up with shoveling! However the roof will still overhang a few foot, and i'll put down some flagstones infront of the shed to achieve a similar effect.

Pics:

SWMBO:






Me:





Rain stopped play, so the base is under tarpaulin, until the rest of the wood arrrives on friday, where the floor will be put down, and the frames will be made - or atleast started.


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## johnb

You'll regret it! 

Those timbers need to be higher off the ground (on lintels or bricks!!), with the possibility of water running past them in all directions as well being protected from ground water by a damp-proof layer of some sort. 

Given the higher ground around, water will run down, get trapped, and water-log them. They'll probably rot in a few years despite the creosote. (They don't look as though they've been soaked/submerged in creosote for any length of time)

I though creosote was banned for the DIY market a few years ago? - look-alike products often only have mould-protection properties and not necessarily rot-protection properties.


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## PowerTool

johnb":203vaz7j said:


> I though creosote was banned for the DIY market a few years ago? - look-alike products often only have mould-protection properties and not necessarily rot-protection properties.



Yes,you're right - it is no longer for sale for general use.
And although hindsight is a marvellous thing,I would have placed the timbers running with the slope rather than across it,so any water could run off/out.
But thanks for all the piccies - it's still an enjoyable thread  

Andrew


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## ByronBlack

Based on a number of factors that I havn't detailed here, i'm confident the timbers will be fine, I however appreciate your ideas. Andrew, there is no slope, thats a trick of the camera, the slope is actually left to right on the edges of the base, hence why I have placed the timbers that way.


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## beech1948

ByronBlack,

Not to get to much like being pushy here but I would like to know what factors you have that mean your timber on concrete on the ground won't rot in a couple years. It seems to me that it will rot and is possibly an area where you might want to rethink.

Help us to learn please.
regards
alan


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## ByronBlack

Firstly, the soil area to the right is due to be completely cleared and sloped with drainage, so any water will drain away from the base, secondly the dropoff at the edge of the grass area, is going to be filled with concrete as will be the gap to the left of the base.

Edging backed with DPC will also be run around the base, so basically no water will actually be able to get under the workshop, or very little.


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## mailee

I agree with Beech, I would get those timbers up off the concrete and on blocks or bricks. Use a DPM between the timber and blocks too. The last thing you want is to be replacing the flooring joists in a couple of years!


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## WellsWood

Sorry Byron, but I'm with everyone else on this. You should at the very least be using pressure treated tanalised timber. Bearing in mind that _everything_ else is built on top of these timbers it doesn't make sense to me to take any chances. If they do give up the ghost it will not be like fixing a leaky roof or a draughty door. Even a single course of bricks laid on the concrete with the 4 x 4s on top and DPM in between would have made the world of difference to its life expectancy IMO. Incidentally 4 x 4 fence posts would have done admirably for the piers.

I'm not sure I understand the bit about running "edging backed with DPM" around the base. Do you mean that you are planning on closing in the gaps by boarding over the ends of the plinths? If so you might want to rethink this also to ensure that adequate ventilation of the joists is maintained. I'm sure you know this already and it's just me misunderstanding, worth mentioning though just in case.

Finally, whats going on with the gap in the second plinth over the dirt patch in the middle? I'm concerned you may have a "bouncy" patch in your floor as a result.

Sorry to be such a harbinger of doom, you must be wishing you'd never started this thread, all we seem to do is berate you at every turn. 

Good luck as always with the build.
Mark


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## wizer

should the DPM be on the underside of the base or ontop of the base (under the walls)..... or both?


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## ByronBlack

Day 4 Notes

All the work from day 3 has been un-done. The timbers have come up, the concrete broken and cleared, and the base is back to how it was on day 2.

I'm on my way to wickes to get the bricks, and today i'll mostly be laying the bricks down and getting the joists cut to size. Tomorrow will see the delivery of all the flooring, and the 2x4 for the frames.

No Summary Today.


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## Sawdust

ByronBlack":1uoanbco said:


> Firstly, the soil area to the right is due to be completely cleared and sloped with drainage, so any water will drain away from the base, secondly the dropoff at the edge of the grass area, is going to be filled with concrete as will be the gap to the left of the base.
> 
> Edging backed with DPC will also be run around the base, so basically no water will actually be able to get under the workshop, or very little.



Byron,

Sorry to sound like a know-all but water WILL get under the joists whatever you do, unless you seal it so tight that there is no ventilation either. In either case they will rot surprisingly quickly and will be an abslolute B!"£$$r to replace.

I really would think about a few rows of bricks running cross-ways to those joists, put a piece of DPC between each brick and the joist and allow for plenty of air circulation underneath.

Cheers
Mike


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## Mcluma

Byron

Before you progress do what everybody says and change those joist

go for tanalist and for much larger 2*5 and gross braces

you will get a lot of flex on those small timbers and moisture will creep up

Listen i have done it before and so have others on this site,

plus put plastic vapor barrier on top of the joists


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## ByronBlack

Day 4

- Bricks have been laid
- Old joists removed
- DPC fitted
- 6x2 Joists cut to length

Pics to follow.

Tomorrow will see the flooring material arrive and the 2x4 for the framiing. A poly sheet will be laid over the 6x2 before the sheeting for the floor goes down. Noggins will also be placed between the floor joists to make it more rigid and sturdy.

Cheers for the info regarding the floor, im more confident about this brick setup, even though it was more hardwork.


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## PowerTool

ByronBlack":90l8x1e5 said:


> Cheers for the info regarding the floor, im more confident about this brick setup, even though it was more hardwork.



Sitting here _not_ doing any of the work,I'm glad you've changed it - it will definitely be worth the extra effort (although you probably felt like you were going backwards..)

Looking forward to the next installment/pictures  

Andrew


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## JFC

Now you have changed everything and lost alot of time i have to ask ..... Why are you putting in a timber floor ? Why not use a concrete base as the floor ?


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## Mcluma

JFC":1q2y4i95 said:


> Now you have changed everything and lost alot of time i have to ask ..... Why are you putting in a timber floor ? Why not use a concrete base as the floor ?



its true

you have easy access and it would have made things a whole lot easier and quicker

but having said that a wooden floor feels a whole lot better underneath your feet :wink:


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## ByronBlack

It's funny how during the majority of my previous thread and this thread, the timber floor was always the way to go and in the plan, and now that I have done that, posters are saying 'you should have done concrete instead' - it's a bit late for that piece of advice now! However, i'm happy with the timber floor, as I hate concrete floors, I had one in my old workshop. Not to mention that this 'shop will not be having heavy machinery in it, therefore a wood floor will be warmer, easier to stand on, and easier for me to work with.

*Day 5*

Wood arrived at 8.30am this morning, I was still asleep and dreaming of cracking some age old conspiratorial mystery, but soon had to realise I had literaly a shed-load of timber to unload off the truck - bah, not a good morning. I'm a grumpy bar-steward as it is in the morning!

So, today will see the floor joists made rigid with noggins and the OSB floor laid on top with a poly sheet underneath for protection, then work on the frames can start.

Luckily the rain held out last night, so no troughs of water in the tarpaulin to deal with today which is a nice bonus.


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## Alf

Byron, I think wood's much nicer too. Yeah, more work _now_ but nicer in the long run. Wish I had a wooden floor.  

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous

Have I missed something, shouldn`t the electric supply be sorted before anything else ? You are going to bury the supply fom the house arn`t you.
What do others think as I am about to do the same, build a workshop in the garden that is.

Koolwabbit :?


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## llangatwgnedd

> therefore a wood floor will be warmer, easier to stand on, and easier for me to work with.



and kinder to fallen tools  

I have converted from a solid floor to wooden, easier on feet and for moving machines about.


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## Johnboy

Any insulation in the floor Byron? I put 4" of fibreglass under my floor, nice and warm for my tootsies!!

John


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## JFC

:lol: Bryon i was just winding you up mate :lol: I also wish i had a timber floor .


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## engineer one

but jason think of the fires you could have had with a wooden floor :lol: :twisted: :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## mailee

My floor is all wooden T&G and I am very happy with it Byron. I have a lot of machines in there now and the wooden floor supports them all with no sign of distortion. Much nicer in my mind. :wink:


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## mel

ohhh !!!! good work byron 
cant wait for an update 
can we have photos as well ????
havnt got much room left for new sheds myself {well maybe one more} 
but have enjoyed making and maintaining the ones i have 
the largest having a footprint of 5m x 6m not my shed thou , my wifes 
it houses a spa tub now , which was not part of the original plan when i built it . so please , byron , dont scrimp on the floor 
you never know what it will be used for in the future 
regards 
mel


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## ByronBlack

* Day 5 Summary/Update*

State of play from end of day 4






Okay, so, i've just finished for another evening! 12 hour shift today! SWMBO has been helping me all day today aswell which was nice, and we had to make yet another trip out - B&Q this time.

A couple of tips, if your buying heavy poly sheet to put under your floor material, get it from either B&Q or Wickes, and not from Homebase, as Homebase charge almsot twice as much for it £10 instead of £5

Also, if you have one of B&Q's Performance Pro drills and want another batter - don't bother, buy another drill. The battery is £29 and a more powerful 14.4v drill is only £19! So I now have a couple of this drills - they aren't powerul and don't last too long, BUT for the price, they are excellent for small projects, and for various screw-driving tasks.

Anyway, onto the update.

I setup the SCMS today and cut the joist beams to length, the Trend extractor really helped here, captured about 70% of the dust. I also used it to cut my 14" noggins.






After a bit of measuring up, I started from the right hand side and put in 6 rows of noggins, not only did this take a lot of the bow and twist out of the joists, but really pulled the whole thing together and made it super rigid. 

As you can see from the photo below, noggins going in: (the far left joist has only 8" noggins - I made a mistake with my centres)





A shot with all noggins in place, wedges and packers under any beams that don't see completely flat on the brickes (due to the bow in some of the joists):





A DPC will be run all down the left-hand side, and in-front of the drop-off, also the polysheet will be overlapped to again provide protection against damp or wetness from the soil, this shot shows the poly sheet attached - Note, I used two poly sheets for this, and overlapped to ensure a good seal:






Rocks are used to keep it from blowing up, until I get chance to staple it down all to the joists. The whole thing is now under tarpaulin, and tomorrow will see the start of the framing, luckily my dad is coming over to give me a hand, so SWMBO bless her socks gets a chance to chill out.

*Day 5 Final Notes*

Buy your supplies from Wickes if you get a chance, it's cheaper than most places and in my branch particualrly has excellent staff, unlike B&Q who seem to employ single-cell organisms and charge you twice the cost of the drill for a battery, muppets!

When laying your timber-frame, not all your joists will be flat, therefore make-sure the bow is in the middle, so that the end pieces rest on the furthest brickes/supports. You can then pack the middle to support it, however, i've found that once the noggins went in, the majority of teh bow disapeared and only a small amount of wedging was needed.

Final point about the base:

IT'S BLOODY HARDWORK!!!!! I did not like this stage at all, espeically as I was STUPID and had to start again with regards the timbers/bricks.

Can't wait for the real work to start tomorrow!!


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## JFC

Erm , you forgot to span the bricks with a timber / wall plate #-o 
You dont need to add wedges as the weight of the floor will level out the timbers , in time .
Maybe i should stop posting on this thread as all i seem to be doing is telling you whats wrong  Sorry mate !


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## Noel

Are the joists not tanalised?
It's great to see the birth of a workshop.


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## mailee

It was this stage in my build that I really enjoyed it Byron as I bought myself a rather large framing nailer for the purpose. I felt like Rambo wielding the thing about.  I agree about not bothering packing the joists up as the weight of the floor and shed will straighten them anyway. Just make sure the joists are level and the floor is level in both directions. It is looking good Byron and I am enjoying the thread, brings back good memories for me. :wink: Oh and keep up the photo diary for us all too, thanks.


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## PowerTool

Thanks for the excellent photos - it's starting to look _good_  

(Now all you have to do is finish yours before Adam finishes his :wink: )


Andrew


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## ByronBlack

Mailee, I wish I had a framing nailer for that part of the project, intead, all I had was a el-cheapo cordless drill and the help of the missus, took us about 6 hours to get all the noggins in - real painful work, my back and hamstrings are killing me this morning!

BUt atleast I've got the help of my dad for the next few days now for the frame!

JFC - no wall plate on the floor - don't even know what one is. I thought the wallplate went on top of the frame to allow the roof joists to be held in place, didn't realise there needed to be one on the bottom as well :?


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## JFC

Byron , the wall plate goes on a bed of cement on top of the bricks to give an easier level for your joists and also something to fix the joists too . It would have helped you get the bow out of some of the joists also .
Still , im talking about house construction not shed construction .
Good luck with the rest of the build , its looking good


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## ByronBlack

JFC - thanks for explaining that, my knowledge of construction is not great, the shed is only really going to be for light use, so hopefully I won't need the wall plate.

Just got some bad news, the cladding might not arrive until next thursday, so looks like things are going to be delayed somewhat - pipper!


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## JFC

> Just got some bad news, the cladding might not arrive until next thursday, so looks like things are going to be delayed somewhat - pipper!


You cant fool us ! We all know you can get the walls up and the roof on without the cladding :wink: :lol:


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## engineer one

come on byron, what about global warming, you will soon regret having 
walls :lol: :lol: :lol: 

looking good but it is harder than you imagine it is going to be 
isn't it??
:twisted: 
paul :wink:


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## ByronBlack

I can't get the frames and roof up though, as the left-hand side frame needs to be clad before it's put up, as the gap between that and the fence means I can't get in to put the cladding on, so it'll have to go on first.

Paul, it's much harder!! Espeically the initial ground-work. Now I know why so many people hire mini-diggers, doing it by hand with a shovel is not fun! Also, in hindsight I would have thought more about the practicalities and ensured I had the most time-efficient tools, like a nail gun, some surveying gear to help me get things level and square, and of course a digger.

I think i'll definitly be hiring a nail-gun when it comes to the cladding though, don't fancy banging in a thousand and one nails!

Now the base is done, and the flooring is going down, I think i'll enjoy the next part more as it's more joinery than hard labour! and I don't have spend half the day bent-over trying to scew noggins in and keep them square!


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## engineer one

maybe you should have a "shed raising" and get others to help,
might be almost as good as philly's gathering :twisted: :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## johnb

Is that timber treated? It doesn't look as though it is tanalised nor does it look as though you've given in any "creosote". 

I'd get as much rot-proofing treatment soaked into it as you can if you've got a few days waiting for the cladding - despite the other precautions.


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## ByronBlack

* Day 6 Summary*

The original wood I was going to use for the floor has now been upgraded to use for the roof, after laying a couple of sheet, I realised it was nowhere near strong enough - again, a mistake I put down to inexperience and the desire to keep costs down. It was 12mm OSB, and has been upgraded to some nice and strong 18mm Shuttering Ply.

Here's a pic of the last panel going in, as you can see I had help from the local friendly Darlek:






The joists were treated with a wood preserver before for the floor went down (had to take up the polysheet, but was quite a quick job). I will be adding 'rim joists' or end-caps as I like to call them at a later date. But importantly, the joists are above ground, with ventilation on two sides, and plenty of support from laid bricks, and noggins to keep it rigid and provide ample support for the ply floor.

Here's a pic fo the finished floor, with a little of the framing work being started:






*Day 6 Summary*

Had the help of my dad which was good, we got the floor down in just over a couple of hours with plenty of rest during the job, yet another hot and sticky day to day.

The Festool was great to use, no mess and nice clean joints of the floor-sheets. I'm very impressed.

The floor is really sturdy, level and feels great under foot. I had to finish early, because being the muppet that I am didn't buy enough screws and I ran out half-way through the first frame. So I have to wait until monday for a new screwfix order, which is fine by me, as sunday I can concentrate cutting all the frame pieces to size and arranging on the floor ready to be joined.

This was a good day, and a lot more relaxed that the previous 5, i'm really starting to enjoy the experiance now


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## mailee

You can erect the wall close to the fence side without any cladding and then lean through to fit on the cladding. I assume there is enough space for a nail gun to fit? Of course it does mean that you will have to treat the cladding before it goes up but that is no problem. :wink:


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## ByronBlack

Thanks for the idea Mailee - i'll have to put some thought to it overnight!


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## allan w

sheds going well mate.
have you given any thought to security?


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## engineer one

cor give him some time to enjoy the hard work, before the worry starts :lol: :lol: 

but you are right what with those open fields and obviously an old
roadway at the back to entrance the previous garage/pit

motion sensors, a bloody great light, and numerous locks are important.
especially the light.
paul :wink:


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## Freetochat

This my favourite security system. Works even when there's a power cut. :lol:


----------



## engineer one

what even when his can opener doesn 't work??? :lol: :lol: :twisted: 

paul :wink:


----------



## Paul Chapman

Freetochat":1ntakm0b said:


> This my favourite security system. Works even when there's a power cut. :lol:



Don't be so sure. There was a brilliant series on BBC T/V called "Beat the Burglar" with Dominic some-one-or-other and an ex-burglar called Mike Fraser in which, with the owners agreement, Mike Fraser would burgle their house to show how easy it was. On a few occasions the owners would say they were not worried because they had a dog - some of them potentially quite vicious. In most cases he stole the dog as well :shock: :shock: 

If you ever get a chance, and it's repeated, do watch the series - it's a real eye-opener :wink: 

Paul


----------



## JFC

A cheap alarm will do the trick IMHO it will scare off any small time burglar . A pro burglar wont care what you have and will get around it so whats the point in spending loads of money .


----------



## mailee

Well Byron, wheres our daily update today? I am following this with baited breath mate. Keep up the good work, it is all worth it in the end. :wink:


----------



## ByronBlack

Sunday is a day of rest mate, good enough for god, good enough for me ;-)

Tomorrow will see me cutting all the frame peices to length, tuesday will see me take delivery of the screws that I forgot to order earlier and the frames going together, after that it's a case of waiting for the cladding to arrive.


----------



## woodbloke

JFC wrote:


> A cheap alarm will do the trick



Agreed - I paid about £28 for an alarm from Homebase. I also fitted a Chubb mortice lock on the door and as an additional measure I could have also fitted some wire panels on the inside of the double glazed units - saves the cost of wired DG units :shock: :shock: :shock: - Rob


----------



## ByronBlack

Sounds like a good idea Rob, i'll bare that in mind.

*Day 7*

Ok, so work today is going to start by cutting all my frame pieces to length, should take most of the day.

I got a call back from the woodyard about the cladding, bad news, the longest length they can do is 5.1m but I need a minimum of 5.5m - any ideas on how to get round this, i don't really want a join or am I just going to have to accept it?


----------



## Barry Burgess

After advice from Jason a few months back I bought a £15 alarm from Homebase work well - make a noise but I went a little further. Put a llock in each side of the tilting door channel so the door does not move and replaced the door lock with a better one and finally 







This is for the power tools - I figured they would not want to carry the heavy tools 
Barry


----------



## ByronBlack

Barry, like the idea - I was thinking of something on the same lines. I have a very large filing cabinet that I might use for the power tools, and I was thnking of installing it inside a strong wooden cabinet, and anchoring it the floor, the hand-tools will be probably be also locked away in some form of lockable cabinet.. plenty to think about!!

Ok, so after speaking to the woodman, i'm going to go for some joins on the shiplap, but in such a way that it's staggerd, so looks like part of the design, this has helped me reduce the wastage considerably, and the cladding has come out £110 cheaper than my first calculations, and there's a high chance it might get delivered on tuesday, so all hands to the pumps!!


----------



## ByronBlack

* Day 7 Summary *

Didn't get a great deal done today, but managed to get one of the frames almost complete before I ran out of screws. Here's a pic of the frame standing up to give an idea of the head room:






And from the side:






Screwfix delivery just this minute arrived, which was annoying as we have just put the taupalin over the work and packed up for the night. However, I'm now equiped to get all the frames built tomorrow - purchased 700 screws so should be no worries about running out.

Cladding is due tomorrow aswell which is a nice bonus. And to help me put the cladding on, I purchased a Rexon compressor and air nailer/stapler kit, which has worked out about the same price as hiring a machine, and the benefit is I get to use the compressor for other uses - like spraying guitars etc...

Tomorrow so should see some fairly rapid development!


----------



## Paul Chapman

Looking good :wink: 

Paul


----------



## woodbloke

I engraved my post code onto all my power tool and then photo'd them onto the PC. I also took a photo of all my hand tools (planes etc) for security purposes, though I think that power tools would probably be what any casual tea leaf might be after - Rob


----------



## ByronBlack

* Day 8 *

Early start today, got the first frame from yesterday finished off, then the second side frame finished, and the rear frame is nearly done, just needs a couple rows of noggins and then onto the left-hand side frames.

Progress is much better today, the weather is cool with a light breeze, and it's dry. Cladding hasn't arrived yet, so i;m thinking it won't turn up till thursday, which is actually quite good as it gives me time to get all the frames finished and raised (bar the left-frame). It also gives me time to test out the new rexon compressor and nailgun kit.

Summary and photos to follow.


----------



## ByronBlack

*Day 8 Summary*

All but one frame has be completed. No photos today as frames are flat on the base, not much of a photo.

Cladding arrived late this afternoon - very chuffed about that.

Tomorrow will see the completion of the last frame, cladding and painting of the left-hand frame, and hopefully cladding of the other frames.

Thursday will see the raising of the frames and the roof going on, any cladding and paiting that needs doing will also be done.

Friday will see the completion of the structure, lose ends tidied up, windows and doors temporary closed with sheeting until next pay day.


----------



## lugo35

great thread byron cant wait to see end result. built my shed from timber frame and plastic coated contoured steel sheets. will be moving house at some point and will be looking to build another. can i be cheeky and ask what the cost of your shed is likely to be. my last shed was 6x3 metres and cost around £900 ,that was 4 yrs ago am i going to build similar for that money . and which is cheapest steel clad or timber clad?????


----------



## ByronBlack

HI Lugo

Glad you enjoying the thread, it's certainly a good experience sharing the build with the forum.

As far as costs go, I would probably say that it's cost more than £900 and will probably go a little higher than that, and thats without costing in the vapour barrier, insulation and boarding out of the inside, or the costs of the doors, windows, electricity and security - all of which I'll have to do in the next couple of months as I need to wait a few more pay cheques!

Once i've finished this stage of the build (structure) I'll post a complete run down of costs, materials used and what I chose for what part of the job and why.

In terms of cladding, I used wood, and that was at £1.20 a meter and I've ordered over 280M of it, so thats where the biggest cost has gone, but thats for some nice tongue and groove shiplap.


----------



## mailee

Just out of interest Byron my build cost me a total of just over £2000 that was including the Roof felt, insulation, electrics, double glazing, and alarm. I have not yet finished the inside cladding but this will be around another £200 I estimate.


----------



## ByronBlack

HI mailee, thanks for sharing costs, I estimated that mine would be somehting similar to your 2k mark onced insulated and boarded, sheet material seems so expensive these days compared to what it was a few years ago.

What did you use for the interior sheeting? I was thinking of using 12mm OSB as it's only £11 a sheet, compared to £18 a sheet for 3/4 shuttering ply


----------



## lugo35

thanks byron,i used osb not pretty but works fine. will use again on new shed. will have to price some sheeting and compare .


----------



## Freetochat

Byron - I went thin on the lining sheets and have regretted doing so. The few extra pounds is worth going for 18mm, just for convenience when wall fixing etc. Totally my lack of planning for future use.


----------



## ByronBlack

Hi Freetochat, I see your point, but I don't intend to have a lot of things attached to the walls, most of cabinetry will be free-standing. And the difference between £11 per sheet and £18 adds up to quite a lot when boarding out the whole workshop!

*Day 9 Summary*

What a day - currently i'm sitting here typing this trying to ignore the flaming pain in my lower back and hips - more about that later.

Staight to the pictures:

A couple of the frames complete:






With all the frames complete, and the cladding arriving, the garden is looking more and more like a wood yard:





Last frame being built in place ready for cladding:





After cladding is finished (Using the new rexon nail gun and compressor - excellent bit of kit, and was only £120 from screwfx) we thought we would just 'see how heavy it was ready for raising tomorrow' well, we got the frame half-way up and men being men decided to put some real effort in and get it all the way just for the fun of it - this is where I put my back out and pulled a muscle down my side by my hip, won't be doing that again in a hurry, we'll have more people for the raising tomorrow






And here I am standing proudly next to my first wall - the head room is going to be fantastic!





So, all in all it was a good day despite my injury. Tomorrow will see the left-hand frame being painted and raised along with the rest of the frames, I think i'll add the roof tomorrow aswell, and friday will mostly be cladding.

Uisng the nailgun today really speeded things up, the cladding was a joy to do, and it took only about 40mins to do the whole left hand frame, and this included cutting the extra pieces as the longest planks weren't long enough for the entire width.

So, my el-cheapo axminster SCMS and el-cheapo rexon compressor and nailgun, along with my el-cheapo performance pro cordless drill have more than stood up to the task of building the workshop - a good testament to cheap tools, albeit when absolute accuracy is not needed.

I'm knackered and a hot steamy bath is waiting to sooth my aching muscles.


----------



## wizer

what a nightmare Byron, I have been putting my build off because I quite severely put my back out. I'm now dreading starting it!!

Alls said, your making brilliant progress. It is looking really good.

Just watch that back tomorrow!


----------



## mailee

Hi Byron, Nice work mate. My internal cladding is just that, internal cladding. It was cheap stuff from 'No Frills' but is good enough. I do have to make sure i only hang things on the studs though and have marked them so I can find them in the future. I do suffer with my back too so had to be careful erecting the sides although I must say they are not as tall as yours. (Is that a Cathederal your building!?) I did also find the nail gun pretty handy and I cheated a little as I also used a framing nailer to put the framework together. Certainly made it a speedy job with that tool. your build is looking good and I am enjoying the read mate keep up the good work. :wink:


----------



## JFC

Byron , i know its obvious but dont forget to overhang your cladding to meet the side walls and allow for a 2x1 fillet to hide any expansion /contraction of the cladding .
Just thought id say it before you made another wall  
Looking good mate !


----------



## ByronBlack

Hi JFC

I've taken that into consideration (regarding the over-hang), once the front and back frame are up, the cladding should extend from left to right completely, overlapping the side frames - however, I initially didn't think of this until my dad kindly reminded me earlier today


----------



## SketchUp Guru

It's looking good, sir. Take it easy on your back though. You've still got a way to go. 

Since you are using wood for the cladding, you might want to give some consideration to the corners and the exposed end grain. This could be a problem area and might allow rot to start. this would be especially bad on the wall near the fence since you can't easily get to it to repair it. Here's one option--I don't know what your cladding looks like so I just took a guess.






Keep up the good work.

Dave


----------



## devonwoody

Byron,
Thankfully you are on the east coast and not the western side of UK today  :roll:  
But I would still be prepared for some wind.


----------



## Inspector

On the day 9 summery, 4th picture down, with the caption,


> And here I am standing proudly next to my first wall - the head room is going to be fantastic!


 
After High School (back in the olden days when there was no such thing as OSB, only plywood) I worked on a small framing crew for about 6-8 months building houses and I don't ever remember seeing a wall done like yours. I noticed your wall has the studs with the second bay from each end spaced closer to each other than most of the other bays. Can I ask why? 

Thanks.


----------



## Jake

I would have put a membrane - preferably breathable - behind the cladding. It isn't going to be 100% waterproof because of all the little gaps.


----------



## WellsWood

Looking good, Byron



Jake":3pp5vmjt said:


> I would have put a membrane - preferably breathable - behind the cladding. It isn't going to be 100% waterproof because of all the little gaps.



I'd echo this sentiment though. At my daughters school we have a large shed for the PTA that is clad with shiplap, and we have a serious problem with weather ingress because of the gaps caused by shrinkage now it is a few years old. You may be able to ignore the wall thats built (and just put it on the others) depending on which way it's facing - SW facing will bear the biggest brunt of the weather.

Make sure you get LOADS of preservative on the lower part (at least) of that wall by the fence - it's going to be difficult to get to once erected. Also it looks to be the shady side so will dry out more slowly, good conditions for rot to set in.

Keep at it, you're doing relly well. Can't wait to see the finished project, _MAN_ I envy that headroom!
Mark


----------



## NickWelford

MarkW":c55dkf1e said:


> Make sure you get LOADS of preservative on the lower part (at least) of that wall by the fence - it's going to be difficult to get to once erected. Also it looks to be the shady side so will dry out more slowly, good conditions for rot to set in.
> 
> Mark



and you could get a spray can for that nice new compressor and have it done in a jiffy!


----------



## ByronBlack

Devonwoody - I can see what you mean, we have got quite some blustery winds at the moment, hopefully it'll die down by the time I come to raise the frames!

Inspector - the reason why there are a couple of extra uprights in the frame closer to each other at each end, is because that is where the small section of shiplap reaches - the longest piece I could buy wouldn't reach the entire length of the frame and I needed an extra couple of studs to allow me to join the two pieces of shiplap.

Jake - wish you could have told me that before I put the cladding on, not much I can do about it now i'm afraid other than add it to the others 

MarkW - Thanks for the words of encouragement, trust me, we are putting a lot of preserver on the wood at the base!

NickWelford - not a bad idea with the spraygun, not sure I can source one locally in time (for friday), although screwfix do a quick delivery service... i'll have to think about that.


----------



## ByronBlack

Can anyone link me to a suitable membrane to put on the frames before cladding? I've had a look around, but I don't really know what i'm looking for!

Would something like this work: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101254&ts=36070&id=67489


----------



## Anonymous

Argos do a kit for compressor

koolwabbit


----------



## Jake

ByronBlack":39sli0w1 said:


> Jake - wish you could have told me that before I put the cladding on, not much I can do about it now i'm afraid other than add it to the others



Sorry, bad timing... I was away for most this thread, that's my excuse.

This is the best sort to use: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 0&ts=36533. It's more pricey but it will avoid condensation forming on the inside of the membrane and running down to potentially rot the framing timbers.

On the one you've already clad, you could run it over the top of the insides of the joists, stapling it so it runs like this:

|
[
|
[
|

If that makes sense. It isn't quite so good in that it won't be protecting the studding, but at least it will keep the insulation/wall linings dry. The framing will be ventilated through the cladding so should be OK - give it some preservative on that wall maybe. And stick that wall on the sheltered side as Mark suggested.


----------



## Adam

I've bought Tyvek Housewrap for mine 100m cost £127 from Travis Perkins

See here http://www.ebuild.com/building/EB/tyvek-housewrap.asp

Adam


----------



## Jake

Tyvek is the biggest brand for this stuff and should be quality stuff. 

(I wasn't advocating that particular product, or supplier, over any other, Byron, just using it as an example of a breathable membrane).


----------



## ByronBlack

Jake":4lgqske8 said:


> ByronBlack":4lgqske8 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jake - wish you could have told me that before I put the cladding on, not much I can do about it now i'm afraid other than add it to the others
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, bad timing... I was away for most this thread, that's my excuse.
> 
> This is the best sort to use: http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 0&ts=36533. It's more pricey but it will avoid condensation forming on the inside of the membrane and running down to potentially rot the framing timbers.
> 
> On the one you've already clad, you could run it over the top of the insides of the joists, stapling it so it runs like this:
> 
> |
> [
> |
> [
> |
> 
> If that makes sense. It isn't quite so good in that it won't be protecting the studding, but at least it will keep the insulation/wall linings dry. The framing will be ventilated through the cladding so should be OK - give it some preservative on that wall maybe. And stick that wall on the sheltered side as Mark suggested.
Click to expand...


Jake - thanks for the link, not sure i'm following your diagram though, do you mean to put the membrane inside the frame (opposite side to the cladding) and staple aginst the sides of the studding?

Also, preservative is being painted on the cladding as we speak, and this will be the wall that will be protected by the fence and next-doors trees. Should I also paint the inside of the frame with preservative before putting the membrane on?

I'll add the membrane as normal to the other three frames before the cladding goes on.

Another question, what stage does the vapour barrier go on, or do I not need one when using that membrane?


----------



## Jake

ByronBlack":2g2938yn said:


> Jake - thanks for the link, not sure i'm following your diagram though, do you mean to put the membrane inside the frame (opposite side to the cladding) and staple aginst the sides of the studding?



Yes, exactly. I'm puzzling now whether that would be better or worse than nothing. 



> Also, preservative is being painted on the cladding as we speak, and this will be the wall that will be protected by the fence and next-doors trees. Should I also paint the inside of the frame with preservative before putting the membrane on?



Only on that one frame



> Another question, what stage does the vapour barrier go on, or do I not need one when using that membrane?



Dpm goes on the inside behind under the wall lining, they are dead cheap so worth doing if you are insulating and heating the shed.


----------



## ByronBlack

Cheers for the clarification Jake, much appreciated. I'm going to go ahead and order that stuff from screwfix as i'm starting the cladding tomorrow

They do a slightly smaller roll for £67 which should just be enough so it's not too much of a stress aginst my wallet.


----------



## llangatwgnedd

Byron I done mine with that cheap blue plastic tarpaulin from b&q at the end of day its moisture barrier your after.


----------



## ByronBlack

*Day 10 Summary*

What a day! Little talk, just loads of photo's, and a small summary at the end:

1. Left-hand frame painted ready for raising:






2. Frame raised and rear frame attached to leftside:





3. All frames now raised and bolts going in:









4. Feeling proud - and relieved, it's been hardwork getting to this stage:





5. SWMBO - Helped throughout:





6. A view from the back bedroom/office:





7. A semi-arty shot:





8. The trench I dug that will hold a gravel line to help drainage:





9. The finished walls and base, ready for the roof on friday (if it doesn't run):





So, the frames are raised, the main trench for gravel is dug. My dad was a huge help today and really helped me get all the frames in place and square. We attached a couple of temporary beams overnight to help get the structure secure in case of high winds.

Cladding and Roofing will probably be completed on saturday as we are due for a day of rain in friday - and I need a rest!!

I have ordered some breathable membrane as advised by Jake - this will go on before the cladding, and a couple of coats of preservative will be given all round - we have chosed 'mint green' for the front, facia boards and other details, and a regular honey colour for the side.

Jobs left to do before I deem it usable:

1. Cladding
2. Install Roof
3. Add some diagonal cross bracing on frames to avoid raking
4. Make and install polycarb windows
5. Hang doors
6. Lay flag-stone or decking in front of the shed
7. Lay gravel drainage
8. Make room for the radio and the kettle!

It feels like i've hit a real landmark today and have some physical evidence of all the backbreaking work we've done for the best part of two weeks. However, ironicaly, it feels like i'm now at the beginning of the project, with all the above to complete, plus internal insulation and cladding, making cabinets, workbenches, and installing electricity equally large landmarks.

I go back to work next tuesday and will have to summon the energy over the next couple of months to continue work on the workshop and have it complete in as quick time as my wallet will allow!

I'm going to sleep for 24 hours!


----------



## Les Mahon

Byron,

your playing a blinder! fair play to you. I know just how hard this work is having built a simmilar desing workshop 18 months ago. I hope for your sake you don't do what I did and move houe 14 months later!

One point on your list of still to do. 



> 3. Add some diagonal cross bracing on frames to avoid raking



I would not bother because when you screw 8x4 sheets to the inside of the frames there will be no racking. At least that was my experience.

Best of luck with getting it finished.

Les


----------



## Colin C

Well done Byron
You are bringing back the memorys of doing mine with was done mostly on my own :shock:  
One tip, Before you move every thing in :roll: , try to plan where things might work best but you might find that some things will need moving when you are all in :wink:


----------



## dedee

BB,
I'm following this and the other shop build threads with interest.

Would you care to share your thoughts on item 4 - the windows.

My existing shed - er workshop has no opening windows, just a single door. In the summer it gets hot and there is no way to even get a breeze through the shop. In my head I have plans to ensure my next workshop will have openings (either door or window) on at least two walls.

Will your polycarb windows be opening? What are your thoughts on the security aspect of polycarb vs toughened or even strengthened glass?

Andy


----------



## Colin C

I am not sure on polycarb windows ( problem with plastic is it sratchs ).
From what Ihave been told, dont go for toughened as when it breaks it goes in to small pieces but laminate glass stays together if it breaks.
The choice is yours  
I was lucky as my nexy door nabour gave me double glazed windows with wooded frames and I have 5 in the work shop


----------



## nickson71

I got a double glazed unit from ebay ......... very cheap and the altered the hole to fit it ........ mind you I hadn't built my workshop frame at the point I got the window


----------



## mailee

I made my own windows using double glazed units for all of them apart from the rear which overlooks a golf course. In this one I put two layers of Lexan just to be on the safe side. I also built the doors with double glazed units and all of them are opening for the summer as it does get extrememly hot in there when the machines are running. I useed the screw down fasteners to secure the windows in the closed position too so they are secure. Hope this may be of help to you. Oh and by the way it only cost around £80 for all of the double glazed units to be made to my sizes. :wink:


----------



## Freetochat

Very good progress. I originally fitted out my workshop with fixed bench etc., but changed to movable. It has helped when needing to gain space for a project.


----------



## twister

Byron, have followed the post with interest. You're doing a fantastic job, and it's great that you're sharing the process with everyone. Not that I'm jealous but I feel like knocking down my workshop and starting again  . 
I noticed you've put Kettle & radio on your list, don't forget the electrics :!: 
Are you going to surface mount the cable & sockets, or are you going to run the cable in the wall cavity and fit flush mounted sockets? 
How are you going to get the SWA cable into the workshop? through the wall or up through the floor?
I sure you're looking foward to having a nice long rest when you go back to work next week :!: :!:


----------



## j

Thanks for this thread, 
I have absolutely no intention of building a workshop, but I still find it fascinating 

With regards to the heat issue, An idea might be to put in some kind of roof vent, to allow hot air to escape out the top of the workshop.
Maybe this could be combined with the exhaust of a woodburner to allow both heating and cooling from the same hole.

Or even put in a skylight  but then you'd have to worry about making it water tight.

Just a thought.


----------



## engineer one

hi byron, this is growing like topsy.
since you are allegedly resting to day, you might consider
nipping down to smiths, wh that is, and checking out
the latest issue of woodworker, it is a plans issue, and 
contains a long article about shed building.
you never know you might find something you might
have missed.

all the best
paul :wink:


----------



## ByronBlack

Guy's!

Thanks for all the messages and words of encouragment - means a lot!

I can't reply to everyones individual points, but rest assured all your suggestions, advice and insights are being taken into conisderation.

With regards the windows - I intend to make them all opening, 8 in total, four down the right hand side, two at the back, and two at the front either side of the door which will also be glazed. I'm going to use Polycarb to being with, and replace with better glass later down the line when the money situation is a little more healthier.

Electrics - havn't got my thoughts/plans that far as yet, tracey's (swmbo) dad is a good electrician, so i'm going to wait a couple of weeks for him to come over and see what he thinks, he has a mate who is a Part P registered electrician and will do the job for me on the cheap, in all probability, i'll run the cable underground, and come up through the floor at the front into a consumer unit, and then have the cable running aroudn the workshop behind the sheathing - sockets will be all round, probably a couple of doubles on each side.

Today is abit of a disaster, after putting up the tarps late last night to protect it from, I came down this morning to find loads of water had got in and drenched the timbers/floor - after about an hour of fighting against the terential down pour, we got the floor and the timbers covered with a poly sheet and managed most of the drips/ingress - the forecast seems to be favourable for the rest of the day and tomorrow - i'll have to get a real wiggle on to get the roof done.


----------



## Johnboy

Byron, put more than a couple of double sockets down each side. My workshop is 20" x 12" and I have 12 double sockets and still find I have to unplug something to put something else in at times. It is cheap and easy to put them in now, much harder to add them later.

Great job so far, pity about the rain today although it is brightening up now.

John


----------



## engineer one

just an update having read it, the woodworker thingie, is 
a reprint of the whole alan holtham series of articles
about shed building. probably worth the fiver there.
also it includes a list of all of their plans, plus an offer on 
some discounts, and included are 3 tear out plans.

paul :wink:


----------



## wizer

wow Byron, this thread is a wealth of info. It's got me thinking about things I hadn't even considered.

Deffo put more sockets in mate. I'm having 4 doubles on 2 walls plus some ceiling and floor mounted sockets.


----------



## GCR

Ventilation has been mentioned. My shed has no opening windows so it can get very hot/dusty at times. I purchased a wall mounted kitchen extractor fan from Wicks and this works very well. The coating of fine dust on the housing and blades leads me to believe it is worth using just to get the fine dust out of the building! I have mounted the fan as high as possible on the end wall and have fitted a vent at floor level at the other end of the "workshop". Well worth fitting, it soon clears the atmosphere.

Bob


----------



## NeilO

i`m with johnboy on the sockets......my 10x8 has 10 double sockets and again as stated you invariably have to unplug something to use something else...(radio, kettle and phone, youve already lost 3 :shock: )
so my piece of advice is, put them in now and save yourself the hassle later (either constantly unplugging stuff, or trying to rewire more sockets later)
and can i say im pretty envious of your hangar, erm worshop :wink: 
excellent watching it come to fruition.....keep us all posted..


----------



## ByronBlack

Point taken about the sockets - i'll probably go for four doubles on each side, three doubles at the back and two at the front - that should cater for eveything I think, bearing in mind it's mostly a hand tool workshop.

I'm sitting here at 1.42am not being able to sleep, worried about putting the roof on. I'm more nervous about this part than any other part of the build so far. So nervous in fact, i'm still drawing up plans and going over my measurements again and again. I even had to have a quick peek out into the garden to check a few things - people must think i'm mad.

I intended to get up for an 8.00am start, but looks like i'll be staying up through the morning waiting to start, I have an ever growing to-do list. I really hope I can get the roof done today as we are due more rain over night and sunday.

Anyone else here listen to the overnight presenters on Talksport? I quite like James Whale and Ian Collins, but i'm listening to Mike Mendoza at the moment - bit of a bafoon but good entertainment, although i'm getting a little sick of the muslim issue.

Also, my fridge sounds like it's inhabited by Darth Vader..

I'm rambling like a mad man, i'm going to have a watch of the woodworking channel.


----------



## Paul Chapman

Stop worrying, Byron, it will be just fine :wink: Really enjoying reading about the progress of your workshop - your enthusiasm is quite inspiring. Hope the weather is good to you :wink: 

Paul


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## Johnboy

Morning Byron, Hope you got some sleep. Just a quick point about the roof. I think you said you are using 12mm OSB and I am not sure about that taking your weight (no insult intended  ) between the rafters. I think it will probably be OK but to be on the safe side keep your weight over the rafters.

Good luck today.

John


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## paulm

Might be worth doubling up the 2x4's round the door opening, both over the top and down the sides ?

I have a similar sized, commercially built shed that was here when we moved in and that was done to give extra strength and rigidity for hanging the doors and to stop the lintel sagging with the weight of the roof.

Looking great BB.

Cheers, Paul.


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## filsgreen

ByronBlack":58t06b12 said:


> With regards the windows - I intend to make them all opening, 8 in total, four down the right hand side, two at the back, and two at the front either side of the door which will also be glazed. I'm going to use Polycarb to being with, and replace with better glass later down the line when the money situation is a little more healthier.



BB is it wise to put two windows at the back? I would be concerned about security, with your house backing onto the field. It's looking great by the way :wink:

Phil


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## ByronBlack

*Day 11 - I think*

I managed to get a couple of hours sleep, and managed to get the tarps off and the insides dry in short order. After a bit of clearing up and organising, I was ready to go.

Luckily, before I started to cut any wood in anger, I had a visitor, a friendly northerner (Mel from the forum) who was kind to give me a little insight in how to do it properly. After a short masterclass and some ham rolls, Mel departed and left me to it.

I'm half-way done with the roof joists, should have the rest done in about another hour or so and then onto fitting the OSB and if time the felt.. it's going much better than I anticipated: Cheers Mel!!

Summary and photo's to follow.


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## wizer

i echo your worries about the roof Byron, I'm considering having a pro roofer finish mine.


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## mel

hi byron B 
hope all your worries about the roof dissappeared when we got talking . you did look a bit anxious thou :shock: and hope you wernt suffering from INFORMATION OVERLOAD by the time i left 
cant wait to see some photos 
hope your not to late posting them {now that youve got some stringer lights} you may feel like working all night :lol:


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## ByronBlack

Wizer - You can do it!!! 

If I can manage it after a bit of professional consultation, i'm sure you can, i'm a complete newbie when it comes to anything like this, and once explained it all fell into place.

Mel - I wasn't anxious - thats my normal expression while I take in and assimilate all the information  It certainly wasn't overload, you have given me many new things to practice, and some good working methods!

On to the pics and the worded summary at the end!

1. Joists going in:






2. Different angle:





3. All the joists in and some OSB on - about 8pm





4. A shot from the inside.





*Summary*

So, how did I do it? Well, not in the way I thought I was going to - and even then I wasn't 100% sure what that was. But, with some help and guidance from Mel an elegant solution was presented.

A 6x2 wall place was fixed to the left wall. The small section of frame for right hand side wall was then put in to complete that wall. (ignore that if it doesn't make sense, it was a small job that needed finshing before the roof).

A 3 inch birsmouth was cut out of the joists and 3/4 degree angle was cut at both ends of the joist, this ensured that the back-end of the joists butted against the wall plate, whilest the other end of the joist dropped the three inches on the right wall - producing an elegent method with a 3inch slope.

The joists over-hang the front and right hands side by 6inches. On which will be fixed barge and facia boards. Soffits will also be fitted. This is to neaten it up and allow me to fix in some guttering to feed Tracey's water butt.

I managed to get all 11 joists in, and also 4 OSB boards up and fixed into position. Tomorrow will see me complete the sheeting and then the felting. After that it's just adding the trim and making it all neat.

Today was much better than anticipated and I got to meet a thoroughly decent forum member.

Again, my thanks to Mel !


----------



## mailee

Hey Byron, I second that as Mel has helped me in the past. Great guy to know I think you will agree.


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## mel

oh !!!!! good work 
could`nt have done it better myself 
throughout this thread you've shown an enthusiasm beyond comparison and inspired others to get their tools out , which cant be a bad thing 
you keep thanking me   all i can say is "dont " but keep the tea with 2 sugars coming :lol: 
if anybody says you should have done it this way or that . please dont forget that it was saturday dinner time and byrons local merchants will have been closed . 
also its his shed and hes doing it his way. i can feel a frank sinatra song coming on .  
it was a pleasure to meet you and swmbo {still think thats a funny name for a woman } :lol: private joke 
and thank you for the hospitality you both showed me , the kettle was never cold . good luck with the rest of the build 
regards 
mel


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## ByronBlack

Cheers for the kind words mel.

Today is a day of rest, my back is really hurting today after lifting the OSB boards onto the roof (and the joists) so with the workshop safely tucked up in the tarps, i'm taking as an oppurtunity to take stock, get organised and relax for a bit.

I'm reading a very interesting book called 'The Historian' by Elizabeth Kostova - its a very engrossing read!


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## engineer one

gawd byron i am 3/4 through it engrossing is not my take it is 
about as easy to read as corelli's mandolin :lol: :lol: 

hope i get the point at the end.

be careful with your back, they are a pipper when you want to 
do proper woodwork, and it has gone.

best wishes paul :wink:


----------



## ByronBlack

Thanks paul!

I'm quite interested in history in general so i'm finding it quite fascinating with all the different locations, and I quite like the way the narrative is split into the three different time zones and the story is being told out in letters and dialogue between the father and daughter.

The only bit i've skipped so far were (apologies if this is a spoiler) the letters from one of the monks on the pilgramage to bulgaria - and there was some other historical accounts from that section of the book that I couldn't really get into, other than that I think it's great. Love the way the bloodline is developing.. anyway's, i'll leave that out of this thread for now, as I don't want to bore anyone with my fondness of books


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## Inspector

> A 3 inch birsmouth was cut out of the joists and 3/4 degree angle was cut at both ends of the joist, this ensured that the back-end of the joists butted against the wall plate, whilest the other end of the joist dropped the three inches on the right wall - producing an elegent method with a 3inch slope.


 
Hi Byron 

I have to ask about the bird's mouth notch to wall joints on the right side of the shop. Is that construction detail complete or will there be more done to it later? 

The reason I ask is because if it's intended to stay "as is", the 6 x 2, with the removal of the 3", is in effect a 2 x 2.5 along that side of the shop. A once in a hundred year winter with heavy wet snow, or a troupe of lady opera singers entertaining your wife's guests in the garden, at the end of the last note, will bring it down. The load will cause the 6 x 2 to split at the inside corner of the notch, running toward the center of the shed until breaking. 

To stop such an occurrence you need to nail a 4 x 2 or 6 x 2 along the wall (tight to the joists) to help transfer the loads to the wall. While you're at it, to make the installation of the plastic vapor barrier complete later. Put a length of the plastic in the corner, extending about a foot on either side of the corner and then nail the ledge up. You can seal the sheets on the wall/ceiling at that stage, with acoustical sealant or whatever "snot in a caulking tube" your building suppliers sell for the purpose. 

If in the future if anyone asks about the 2 x _ in the corner, just tell them "It's crown moulding." 

If a 2 x _ ledge or some kind of joist hanger was planned for and has yet to be installed on the wall to support the inside corner of the joists, then excuse my concern. My remarks are not intended to be critical of your efforts, because I admire you for tackling a large project on your own without a bunch of local help. It would bug me to find out in a few years that the roof of your shed was failing, and I had a chance to prevent it, and didn't.


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## ByronBlack

HI Inspector, I appreciate your concerns. But we have extremely small amounts of snow here that i'm very confident it will be fine.


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## JFC

Byron , don't dismiss the inspectors comments , i also noticed the notch and thought it was going to be sorted out later . A joist hanger around each joist would sort out any future problem and reinstate the 6X2 structure . It wouldn't cost alot and wont be seen , worth doing IMHO .


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## Jake

I had the same thought when I first saw the pictures, but was reluctant to trangress orders and comment.


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## ByronBlack

I'm not dismissing the comment, I feel its plenty strong enough considering the very low amount of snow and rain in this area, the roof boards are also light so it's not supporting a great deal of weight, so it's staying as it is.


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## Johnboy

Have to agree with the comments about the rafters Byron. If it is strong enough why didn't you just use 3 x 2's for the rafters in the first place? For the minimal cost and time to fit either joist hangers or a supporting beam along the wall isn't it worth it for the peace of mind?

Great job so far and mind your back.

John


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## JFC

Yeah im sure your right Byron , These calculations that are set by governing bodies are overkill anyway . I mean how much mass weight can build up over such a small area eh . I suppose it doesn't get to windy where you are either so you wont have to worry about wind shear .
I always work to the rule that a birdsmouth under 32 degrees is a notch and is then weakening the timbers structure but now i know that national external forces don't apply to certain areas i can stop using firring pieces . :wink: :lol:


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## OLD

Byron you now Inspector is correct you have the materials it will not take long your just tired 'get it done' but as part of the internal fitting out work when its all waterproof and your pains have subsided its just good engineering .


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## mel

hi all , 
we have already disscused the issue and approached the problem , on saturday . 
we came up with 
1 drill a hole through and fit a suitable bolt {M10} to prevent any split 
2 you could also use a nail plate , as used in rafter construction 
3 it could be supported from underneath as you all suggest 
4 joist hangers could be used

at the time of my visit i didnt want to interfere with what byron was doing , however lack of confidence was preventing his progress , so we got chatting about how he could get the roof on with the materiels that he had. there wasnt enough timber to cut firring lats. 
i was only at his house for 2 1/2 hrs , but at least he had the confidence to carry on . keep smiling mate  it will all come together 

incidently, my neighbours shed roof is made of 2x2 for the rafters and when i get my health back {following operation on my back} we are going to sort it out . it certainly wouldnt stand a heavy snow load 

still not wanting to interefere , but i did wish that i had my tools with me  as i do love the hands on approach 

mel


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## Inspector

Byron 
It was never my intention add to your stress level or inhibit your progress and if I did, I apologize. And as mel has clarified the circumstances around the roof I almost wish I hadn't said anything, but I did so with the best of intentions and so that others could learn too. Not being in your shoes makes it hard to know what you have already looked at and considered with each decision made.Therefore our comments come as a result of only what you have been generously posted. Keep going as the end result will be worth all the hard work and never ending decisions.
Inspector.


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## WellsWood

Sorry to be another malcontent BB, but I've got to add my shout to that of Inspectors': a 6x2 with a 3" notch is effectively a 3x2 rafter. It's not the weight of any snow that concerns me, rather the fact that you (and probably a helper) are going to have to stand on it to lay the felt. 
To make it safe to do this the rafters need to be supported under the full depth of the timber where it meets _both_ walls, and a plate nailed the wall adjacent to the notches would be a simple and effective solution.

It's your WS, and your shout at the end of the day, but it'd be a shame to delay the completion after doing so well because you were layed up with a broken leg (or god forbid worse).

Incidentally, when comes time to felt the roof you may find this helpful.

Mark


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## ByronBlack

Thanks for all the comments,

JFC - really no need for sarcastic responses, espeically as you don't know all the facts regarding the situation.

Inspector - No worries mate, appreciate the input.

MarkW - thanks for the link to the felt laying, that will be handy when I get to that stage.

Mel - Thanks for the support. Hopefully rain will stop today and I can get on and get some more work done, back to work fulltime from tomorrow, so progress will be slow.


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## ByronBlack

*Day 12*

Raining today and really p***ed off as it's my last day before I return to work and I need to get the felt up.

Anyway, despite morale and confidence being quite low this morning, I decided to just jump right in and see where it takes me.

I've managed to get all the OSB cut to size and up on the roof with a few preliminary nails to hold them in place.

I've ripped to size and installed a rear purlin - this has taken away some of the 'sway' in the frame and also provides a neat finish to the back of the workshop - also supporting the end of the roof panels.

I've installed a 3" batten on the front which will be one of a few bearers that the barge-board at the front will be attached to.

At this very stage i'm just trying to pluck up the courage of getting on the roof and shimmying across to get the rest of the nails in before I lay the felt - I don't like heights at all, so this is going to be a bit of a challenge

Photo's and summary to follow.


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## Scrit

I've just read through all 10 pages in a sitting...... Well done, Byron! It's really very educational to see a real life project done this way, not being a framer myself. Hope you can get it weathertight before the bad weather starts

Scrit


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## ByronBlack

Thanks Scrit! 10 pages must have taken you a while!

I think the bad weather has already started, we have rain and drizzel with a bit of wind all day today so far, just hope it clears on the weekend so I can get the cladding done


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## ByronBlack

*Day 11 Summary*

Rain stopped most of the work today, but still managed to make some good progress.

I got all the sheeting on the roof today (the photo below was taken earlier in the day). Got the rear pulin cut and installed aswell as some bracing on the front to receive the barge-board.

When tracey got back from work she gave me a hand on the roof, nailing all the sheet's down and getting them flat.

I've also started to add some extra bracing on the frame, and will probably double up around the doorframe and add some more diagonal pieces in the frame as i'm still gettting a bit of raking. However the rear purlin and the roof sheets now that they are attached as stiffened the structure to quite a degree.

A photo of work during the day:






Didn't have tracey to help me today, but had the next best thing as foreman (next doors cat):





*Summar and final day's notes*

The rain and mud combined with my low morale this morning took it's toll, and with tracey back at work the whole thing seemed quite daunting. But as usual, once work started and I got into the groove, it all seemed to fit nicely into place.

My back is gradually getting a litte worse each day, but thats due all the lifting the last few days, i've got no structural work to do until next satuday now so should have time to relax.

JFC - didn't mean to be angry towards you in the earlier thread, I apologise and appreciate your input, I was just generally in a bad mood and shouldn't have reacted the way I did.

I will be putting up a 2x4 (not sure what you call it) bracing plate? To help strengthen the joists at the shallow end.

This thread might not be updated with much structural work until next saturday, but i'll still contribute to the thread with idea's, plans etc..


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## JFC

No problem mate , i have the nack for winding people up :lol: Group hug ?
If your cladding the inside with boards then that will stop any racking so no need for additional bracing . You could screw a few on the outside temporarily if you have the kicking around , one on each corner should do while you work on the roof , but don't forget to add a few inside before you take them off to clad the outside .


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## Johnboy

Hi Byron, I am halfway through re roofing my carport and rain stopped play yesterday for me too.

Agree with JFC about the bracing. When I built my workshop it seemed a bit unstable and I was wary about climbing on the roof but once the outside and inside were clad it was rock solid.

John


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## les chicken

Byron

Been watching with interest you are doing very well. I would suggest a little tip for the roof. As the osb has been wetted before you put on the felt I would suggest giving it a good coat of anti rot treatment. The clear stuff from wicks at about £18 for 5litres is OK. 

This will help as the roof sweats under the felt and will prolong the life of your new recreation/earning area. :wink: :wink: 

Les


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## ByronBlack

Les - nice idea, i'll do that as I was a bit worried about the damp already in the OSB. Assuming weather is ok, I should get the rood sorted and felted on satuday.


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## ByronBlack

*Day 12*

The workshop has been playing on my mind all week since i've been back at work. Not being be able to do anything to it during this time has been frustrating. So, today was a quite today and I made my excuses and left work at mid-day. The weather was good so I decided to get stuck in and see what I could get done.

Some Pics:

1. 2x4 Support Plate being screwed into place to support the low-end of the joists as suggested:






2. A couple of supports going in to support the roof sheets and provide some extra area to screw the barge-board onto:






3. Breathable/Waterproof membrane being stapled into place before the cladding:






4. A rather dark picture, the membrane is now completed:





*Summary*

It was a good day today, got a lot of the more fiddly things done. I'm happier now that I don't have the tarpaulins flapping about in the wind now that the membrane is up. Although I still have a couple of tarps ont the roof protecting the OSB until I get chance to felt it.

The support plate is also now in place, and this will give extra strength to the joists where the notch has been cut, as advised by various forum members, this will help spread the weight and avoid any cracks developing.

I installed a couple of support pieces on the front joists - these give more support to the roof sheets, and also gives me an extra two locations to screw the barge board to, this was also put up although you can't see it in the picture due to the green tarp covering it.

Stapling the membrane was quite easy using the same rexon compressor and staple/nail gun as I used for the cladding. I used a craft-knife to cut it as its made of a weave which makes it difficult to cut with scissors. I purchased a 25m roll from screwfix, and probably still have about half left which i'll use on the roof to provide a water-proof barrier between the felt and the OSB.

Also, i've generally got my self more organised today, clearing away all the off-cuts, putting timbers into order and generally tidied/cleared up so that it's virtually empty inside which gives me a nice area to work in.

If I can get away with another sicky tomorrow, i'll try and get the cladding done, otherwise i'll have to tackle it over the weekend when I hope to get the roof felted - not really looking forward to that. I might see if SWMBO fancies an hour or so on the roof


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## wizer

looking good Byron, coming together nicely.

I noticed in the last picture you have one those multi-positional ladders. How do you find it? I was looking at one in B&Q, I like the idea of having it in platform mode.


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## garywayne

Hi WiZeR.

I have one of those ladders. It comes in really handy around the house. Especially painting the stair well.

I think your doing a really good job Byron, well done, and thanks for your advice.


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## ByronBlack

wizer - the ladder is my dad's, he got it from Costco for £39 - they do do a very similar one in B&Q for about £50 I think - really worth it I would say, i've used it so many times already, it's like having a portable scaffold platform, and it's also very useful in step-ladder mode too.


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## ByronBlack

*Day 14 - There is no day 13, as it's bad luck, might have burnt the place down.*

Light drizzle all damned day!! However, seeing as I took the day off today, I didn't want to waste it, so I thought i'd do something a little more intresting today other than structural work.

I decided to make some nice trim around the doorframe, this will provide a neat edge for the shiplap to butt up against, and also give the doors a nice frame.

The 2x4 I have as a rounded edge to it, kind of like a mini-bullnose moulding. So, using the festool i've ripped three pieces into 20mm x 25mm dimensions, and hand-cut to size and mitred the ends. This was really enjoyable as I got to use some hand-tools and do some more delicate work, which makes a change from screwing everything together or constant to use of the SCMS.

I'm almost finished with that, and will hopefully have enough dry weather to start cladding the front, just wish the damned drizzle would blow over. Bah!

Summary and photo's to follow.


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## ByronBlack

*Day 14 (-1) Summary and Photos*

Had a really good day today, done some nice delicate trim-work and some cladding, and also some painting. Things seem to be moving along nicely now despite the weather. I have a bit of a mental block regarding the roof though, really itching to get it done but I don't seem to have the weather on my side at the moment.

Pics:

1. Trim being attached, and a close up for the mitre - not too shabby, the cross-beam wasn't flush hence the small gap.












2. Cladding going on:







3. Almost completed Cladding:







4. Cladding complete and given a couple of coats:






I will be adding some corner-trim to protect the end-grain of the cladding, this will be painted cream as will the doors and facia boards to give a nice contract against the green. The paint if anyone is interested is; Ronseal Mint Green exterior wood preserver. About £8 per litre, and from B&Q.

So, a good day really, tomorrow should see the roof felted and the cladding complete assuming the weather holds - come on everyone, do me and Wizer a little sun-dance!!


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## JFC

Looking good byron ! Its a great feeling when the cladding starts to go in isn't it . 
I see you have worked out the cladding so a full board will fit over the doorway (good man ) With the gap you have at the bottom why not put a drip mould rather than cutting a bit of cladding , you can buy it off the shelf or make it your first project in the workshop . A bit of 3x2 chamfered with a capillary grove on the underside will take the water away from your base and into your soak away . 
Just a thought and something i've never done .
Anyway its all looking very good mate !


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## wizer

JFC":3vb8cjzk said:


> I see you have worked out the cladding so a full board will fit over the doorway (good man



lol I dont think I would have thought of that!


Well done Byron, you had a better day than me. Looks snug inside there too.


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## PowerTool

Looking good  

_Nearly_ finished,hang on in there :wink: 

Andrew


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## ByronBlack

I have to have a sneaky laugh to myself regarding the cladding across the doorway.

Basically, I took the cladding up as far as it finished around the doorframe, and the long-piece directly above it actually not flush with the lap, instead I had to cut a wide rebate into and slide it further down to get it to fit - I didn't plan for it at all, instead adjusted as I went 

So, I can't really take credit for it


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## ByronBlack

*Day 14*

The weather sort of held out today, not great, but kept dry long enough for me to get the roof done - AT LAST, GOD BE PRAISED!!!!

Here's the pics:

1. Black roofing membrane going on first:






2. Felting:






3. Guess what? It started raining whilest putting on the last piece!! Wet felt is nasty:






4. Finished! 





*Summary*

I'm so relieved to finally have the roof covered. I didn't treat the OSB as I still had a lot of the black breathable membrane left, so I lined the sheets with that first, and then laid the felt.

The felt was over-lapped by about 6inches on each join to provide a nice water-tight seal. Another layer of felt is going to be laid, this will hide the joins at the far end and add an extra protective layer.

I was nervous about getting up there, but after a while confidence grows and it doesn't become an issue, I placed all my staples and clout nails along the beams, so I always know where to stand.

So, all that is left to do for the roof is to cut away any excess, and tuck the overhang underneath the sheeting and fasten. Facia boards will be installed allround to provide a nice finish, and a place for me to fix the guttering. 

I'm finishing early today, as I want to chill out, and also for another very important reason:

*New project!!!*

SWMBO needs a greenhouse. We did have one at our previous place, but due to the size of the workshop we can't fit it in behind it as previously planned, short buy a couple of inches. The original greenhouse was 6'x6'. So, we are going to build a nice lean-to greenhouse on the back of the workshop, this will give Tracey more head-room and a longer greenhouse which will provide more room for her staging and beds.

So, if anyone has got any links to greenhouse building, I would be much obliged, it will be made from a wooden frame and polycarb glazing.


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## JFC

Looks better every day  
Funny you mention a green house i was just going to post on a simular subject .


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## mel

byron b 
your not kidding about your fear of heights 
your stuck to the roof like a rare earth magnet :lol: :lol: 
looking good mate , its a good feeling to get it water tight 
pm to follow 
mel


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## ByronBlack

JFC - Are you intending on building a greenhouse too, or have you already built one - would be interested to pick your brains on any plans you have made already.

Mel - nice comment! It does look like i'm stuck down like an octopus, but to be fair, I was only like that for a short-while I was doing the very edges, as there is only 1 joist towards the very edge, and wanted spread my considerble weight rather than load up one joist ;-)


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## lugo35

looking great byron. some hanging baskets on the side in the summer be great. will be looking to do similar to your build, when i build next workshop. 
11k hits on one thread thats gotta be a record???????


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## Fecn

Before you get too much further with that felt, I thought I should mention...

On larger flat rooves, it's normal to raise the verges with 45degree angled bit sof wood on three sides of the roof to stop the rain water sitting on the roof being blown over the edges without guttering.






Cheers,

Fecn


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## WellsWood

ByronBlack":33mto1ls said:


> , I placed all my staples and clout nails along the beams, so I always know where to stand.



Please tell me that doesn't mean you nailed through the top layer [-o< which needs to be _stuck_ down onto the intermediate layer.
Like Fecn says, a folded drip verge should be formed on the 3 "high" sides, see here for details.

Looking forward to the "internal" part of the thread, I trust you _are_ going to show us what you do in there. :wink: 

Cheers
Mark


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## mrbingley

I thought verges were used on flat roofs ?


Chris.


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## ByronBlack

MarkW so far there i only 1 layer of felt, subsequent layers will be stuck down. I'll be having gutting all round the roof, so not sure verges are totally nessacary?

I will be adding photo's and WIP with regards the inside and future projects, which there are plenty on my tuit list.


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## wizer

so let me get this straight (sorry to thread hog). You lay the underfelt with clouts, then you stick the top layer to it? What do you stick it with?


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## nickson71

You can buy felt adhesive for B&Q and the likes


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## ByronBlack

Wizer - your not thread hogging at all, it's nice to have cross builders asking questions, at the end of the day it will make the thread more useful to others in the future.

The link MarkW posted is an excellent tutorial on laying a felt roof:
http://www.diydata.com/projects/flatroof/flatroof.htm

I'm in two minds whether to continue with another two layers of felt, or to go for a corrugated steel roof, at the moment I really don't like the felt and thinking of going the steel route.


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## engineer one

but you'll hate the noise. :twisted: :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## ByronBlack

How so paul? Do you mean noise from the wind and rain, or noise reflected from machinery - the interior ceiling will be insulated and boared, so not sure what you mean..


----------



## Scrit

Byron

My unit has a plastic-coated "corrugated" roof and even with 4in of insulation I can hear the rain above the machinery on some days. 

Scrit


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## ByronBlack

*Day 15*

*Summary*

Rain! - Rain! and more rain 

BUT, I did get something done today, me and SWMBO managed to clad the back of the shed and get a couple coats of paint on before rain stopped play. So, there is just one more side to clad now, and the beast should be water-proof.

I also had to do some repairs to the roof. When I put the felt on last time, again rain stopped play just as I was finishing up. However there was some excess flappage over the back-edge and the wind had managed to get up and under the flappage and has torn some of the felt, and pulled some of it up and over the clout nails resulting in some holy felt.

So, an hour or so of re-nailing the stuff down and then nailing it up and under to makesure the wind couldn't get into has managed to fix it.

I've ordered the rest of the wood for all the trim, which includes; 3x1 to make into an 'L' shape and run up the corners to cover the end-gran of the shiplap, 6x1 facia boards will run down the length of the right-hand side back and front(barge-board). And hopefully some more cladding to finish of a few area's that need a thin slither to finish off.

Some bad news today. I went to order the doors from wickes - the ones that I had specifically made the door-opening for had sold out!! DOh!! The doors were 686mm wide, and I made the doorframe big enough for two, however all the other doors they have are 750mm+ which means i've eitehr got to forget about glazed doors and go for the right size door, OR make my own.

I'm leaning towards making my own as ive never done it before, and it will be a usueful excercise in a frame and panel and tenoning.. I can also glaze with polycarb instead of glass which I prefer. I'll have to think about it in more detail.

*One last thing*

IT'S MY BIRTHDAY! And I intend to get very very drunk! So day 16 maybe a little bit of a mess!


----------



## engineer one

rain of course, mate. tins shacks have a bad hammer effect.
and what ever anyone says it rains in britain. :lol: 

i think that whatever anyone says, insulation inside does not drown
out the sound of the rain fall.


paul :wink:


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## Scrit

engineer one":26vxmtkq said:


> I think that whatever anyone says, insulation inside does not drown out the sound of the rain fall.


Oh, I _soooooo_ agree (horrid Americanism, but none the less appropriate)

BTW, happy birthday Byron!

Scrit


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## A_n_g_e_l_a

> The link MarkW posted is an excellent tutorial on laying a felt roof:
> http://www.diydata.com/projects/flatroof/flatroof.htm



Mmm, these things never tell you how to do the real tricky bits. What happens at the corners?


Angela


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## Paul Chapman

ccasion4: Happy birthday, Byron ccasion5: 

Paul


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## A_n_g_e_l_a

Byron lack wrote:


> I also had to do some repairs to the roof. When I put the felt on last time, again rain stopped play just as I was finishing up. However there was some excess flappage over the back-edge and the wind had managed to get up and under the flappage and has torn some of the felt, and pulled some of it up and over the clout nails resulting in some holy felt.



Holy felt? Are you going to be praying in there as well then? :lol: 

Angela


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## engineer one

only to the temple of LN and LV i would guess????????? :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## wizer

A_n_g_e_l_a":3v2hgupc said:


> The link MarkW posted is an excellent tutorial on laying a felt roof:
> http://www.diydata.com/projects/flatroof/flatroof.htm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm, these things never tell you how to do the real tricky bits. What happens at the corners?
Click to expand...


Very good point.

Happy Birthday Byron. I'm going to be making my doors. Nothing fancy, just 2x4 framework, clad.


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## JFC

> What happens at the corners?



You cut them 3/4 of the way up and lap them over themselves , because its on the vertical part of the aris rail anyway your not effecting the roof .
The hot tar should fill any gaps but if it does leak your already on the outside of the roof . It is a weak point so needs to be done well .
Happy birthday Byron ccasion4: ccasion5:


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## Colin C

ccasion4: Byron ccasion4:  \/


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## SketchUp Guru

It's probably too late. You're probably lying under a table somewhere. Happy Birthday anyway!


----------



## mel

happy birthday byron 
well spotted scrit 
just a note on the steel roofing sheets 
my neighbour has just bought 5x 3.0m sheets , each covers 1m and he got the proper fixing for them . the best bit is the cost 
only £95.00 delivered to his door 
got to be better than a built up felt roof 
i swear by the steel sheets , any day of the week, over felt . 

mel


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## ByronBlack

Mel - whats your view on the noise of the sheets? I'm not sure I would be that bothered about the rain, after spending many months and weeks camping, i'm kind of used to it


----------



## mel

its like being on holiday, in a caravan, on the east coast . :lol: :lol: sitting in waiting for the rain to stop. 
you either love it or hate it , 
dont think it would be so bad if the sheets were direct to the existing roof 
the beauty with these steel sheets is they last forever 
mel


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## filsgreen

Have you thought about using shingles Byron? I used them on mine and I think they look great. I layed mine on top of the roof felt and have had no problems.

Phil


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## wizer

i'm considering shingles too. They sell them in Wickes


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## MIGNAL

> i'm considering shingles too



Hmmm. . . it's infectious.


----------



## staffie

Excellent work, Congratulations and thanks for sharing with us.


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## cutting42

filsgreen":5ihnym63 said:


> Have you thought about using shingles Byron? I used them on mine and I think they look great. I layed mine on top of the roof felt and have had no problems.



I agree, used them on my kids playhouse:


----------



## ByronBlack

Nice playhouse! Do you have a miniature workbench and table-saw in there as well?

The roofing tiles do look nice, i'll have to cost it up How is it fixed? Adhesive or clout nails?


----------



## les chicken

The last time I priced up shingles compared to heavy duty mineral felt, the shingles came out at about 4 times the cost. :roll: :roll: 

If I remember correctly from the blurb you need a minimum pitch of 22deg.

Les


----------



## ByronBlack

ouch! thats very expensive! I just costed up corrugated bitumen panels from wickes, and they come to just £100 - so I think I know which method to go for.


----------



## mel

hi byron
just noticed that you ask how to fix shingles 
what you do is start at the bottom , fix the first row , nailing them direct to your substrate , in your case osb and one layer of felt 
the second row goes on over lapping the first and covering the nails at the same time 
{IIRC} these shingles are not really suited to roofs below a certain pitch 
this puts you out of it as far as shingles are concerned 

im no expert roofer . but have had some dealings with this kind of roof
in the past . so feel free to critisise and correct any points that i may have missed . :roll: 

a "built up felt roof" done properly will cost a small fortune 
you will need to hire a bitumen boiler and buy the cakes of bitumen 
the woodwork has to be at least 3/4" thick and tight jointed 
on the front , back , and highest edge a strip of wood , say 2x2 cut diagonally has to form a perimeter around the three edges . 

with me so far . good then ill continue 

cut your strips of felt to go on so that the roof is covered high point to low point 
cut another lot or felt so that it it is covered front to back 
both these layers are now ready to be bitumened into place 

note : dont go any further than the perimeter fillet youve installed on the three edges 

now you are ready to start sticking down 
when the first two layers of felt are stuck down 
you are ready for the capsheet . or "traditional felt" 
stick the capsheet to the first two layers of felt in the same manner with the bitumen, 

at this point the roof is pretty watertight , but you will need to finish off all
around the edges .
this is difficult to explain , 
long pause 


right . here we go .

the underside {what you see from the ground} has to be folded under . nail the face of the capsheet direct to the barge board 
so , lets say your barge board and perimeter fillet are 8" deep 
mark a line 4" up . nail all your felt to the barge board making sure the falt is dangling earthwards . then fold the felt back up onto the roof 
from the top now, stick it to the barge board , fillet strip and a generous overlap onto the capsheet .
do that all the way round folding the felt up and sticking it to itself 
you will then have a roof that should last in excess of twenty years 
ohh, you can then add a thin layer of stone to help absorb the heat from the sun . 
like i said , im no expert , but im blessed with a wealth of first hand experience knowledge . { at work we use subbies, cos they have all the gear} :x :x 

alternativley you could use roofing sheets :lol: :lol: 
here ends the tutorial on "built up felt roofing" 
hope ive not done your head in #-o 
mel


----------



## cutting42

ByronBlack":33vn3u4i said:


> Nice playhouse! Do you have a miniature workbench and table-saw in there as well?
> 
> The roofing tiles do look nice, i'll have to cost it up How is it fixed? Adhesive or clout nails?



The kids are loving the table saw but there were tears when I said no to the stacked dado set   , they are after a mortiser now - or is that me!!! 

Try this link for fitting shingles:

http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/roof ... halt_1.htm


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## filsgreen

To be honest i never looked into what the right pitch should be, all I know is that the roof pitch runs from seven foot six to six foot six. Also the tiles were self adhesive but I still put clout nails in underneath the tile.

Phil


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## dedee

bB,
I am in favour of the corrugated bitumen panels and have used them on a shed roof refurb a few years back. One advantage ( a bit late for you perhaps, sorry) is that they do not need to be laid on a boarded roof just attached to purlins which are a lot cheaper and easier on the back to install. 
If you go for the Onduline range you can also get roof lights (windows) that fit the profile - lots of info here:- http://home.btconnect.com/slecladding/ondul.htm

Andy


----------



## ByronBlack

I think i'm definitly going to go for the bitumen sheeting root. I went out to the workshop today and found a fair bit of water - not sure how it got in as I have a waterpoof membrane over the OSB, and then a layer of felt over that, a bit annoying really.

Andy, ive worked out how many sheets I need = 14. Do you know how much they are for each sheet?

The bitumen ones at wickes works out at about £100 all in.


----------



## ByronBlack

Update:

No more work done to the workshop as of yet due to my crappy job insisting I need to work both saturday and sunday - the scumbags!

Anyway. I've placed an order with Wickes for 14 Bitumen Roofing Sheets (Green) and 200 fixings. They should be here tuesday which is lucky as I have the tuesday and wednesday off.

When I get back from work today, i'll get the final side of cladding done. And then work on getting the facia/barge boards and trim pieces cut to length and planned - I can test out my lovely old/new stanley 4 1/2. 

I also might put in some cross-noggings between the roof joists to give the roof some extra rigidity in high winds, and also provide more places to fix the sheeting.

Thats it so far, summary and photo's added when I finally get some spare time.


----------



## dedee

Sorry, BB just picked up your question. I can no longer find the receipt for the panels that I bought but I do recall it was cheaper than replacing the boarded roof (it was made from chipboard) and re-felting.

Andy


----------



## ByronBlack

Andy, thanks for coming back to me - i've since ordered the sheets from wickes, which i'm hoping will turn up on tuesday. So in the next coming days, I should get the roof and the trim done - just the doors to do and the beast will be sealed!


----------



## ByronBlack

*Day 16*

Wickes arrived first thing this morning, grumpy driver in tow. The bitumen roofing sheets are quite nice and relatively light. I'll mostly be fitting them today and if I get time, get my new smoother sharpened and my rough-sawn 6x1 and 3x1 timber smooth and cut for the trim and facia boards - although this will probably be tomorrows job - along with finishing the last few boards of cladding.

*1.03pm*

Just finished putting on the last roof sheet. I just need to go back up on the roof and put a few more fixings in as a couple didn't grip properly. I also need to superglue down some of the plastic caps as there are some which aren't staying closed.

The roofing sheet is in fact Onduline! They are £8.49 a sheet, and I needed 14 , so it worked out a little more expensive than I realised. And to top it off, the fixings which cost me £26 are too short! They go through the ridge of the sheet, but bearly have enough meat on them to drive into the OSB - so i've had to use some of my 60mm wood-screws. So i've paid £26 for 200 plastic caps - bah! And I've not even opened one of hte other packs yet.

Roof cost so far (proper figures will be given at the end of the project)

Felt = £40
Clout Nails = £5
Black Roofing Membrane = £67 (also used for walls) and some left over.
Onduline Roofing Sheets = £118
Fixings (screws and plastic caps) = £23
Delivery for sheets = £16
OSB sheeting = £88

*Total for roof = £357*

With a little more fore thought, I could have done this so much cheaper! However, with 4 layers (OSB, Membrane, Felt & Sheeting) there ain't nottin' getting in this bad boy!

Summary and pictures to follow


----------



## Shultzy

Hi Byron -I've just registered with this site as I only found it out on Sunday as I was looking for reviews on universal machines. I retired in March as an IT Network Technical Advisor, and as I've been designing my workshop over the last 6 months your thread was the first to catch my eye. I spent all day Sunday reading with great interest the 14 (now 15) pages on your workshop build. I have loads of questions but I'm going to leave them till you have finished the construction as you could be spending more time on the forum than on building the shed. With nearly 15,000 hits, this thread has proved very popular and it just shows how much interest there is in building a humble shed. I'm a little bogged down with my build as I have to take out a 40ft Sycamore tree before I can lay the foundations, and those roots are a bit deep. 


Glad to know that when you have finished you will provide the numbers for this build as these are useful to know as.

one question I will ask is: which size nails did you used for the cladding. Most I've seen seem a bit thin compared to traditional nails. How many did you use to nail to each stud, 2 or 3.


----------



## ByronBlack

HI Schultzy - welcome to the forum!! And thanks for reading the thread, I hope it provides you with some useful information and inspiration - that was my aim by doing the thread.

To answer your first couple of questions. For the cladding, i've been using 18gauage 32mm brads, putting 3 in each stud, I have quite a lot of studding, so the cladding is very solid. However, I know that most on here would recommened using a heavier guage nail/brad, but from my experience so far is once the cladding board is on, it's very very difficult for me to get off.

I had to remove 2 claddding boards yesterday as I had gone a bit off-level, It took about 10 mins with the claw hammer, so I would say it's strong enough for me!

Hope that helps, and feel free to go ahead and ask questions. I'm more than happy to answer them as best I can - and i'm sure the other contributers to this thread will do so alike.


----------



## mel

hi Bb
didnt realize that you were "fixing" the cladding with 18g brads 
these seem a bit thin to me to fix 
thought that you were lineing up with brads . and then using a heavier fixing to complete and secure the cladding to the studs 
with the nylon vapour barrier between the studs and cladding , i would imagine that the whole structure would rack very easily 
however when you get your interior walls lined with 8x4 sheets this wont be a problem 
brads are generally used for interior second fix, but ive used them myself outside with resin based wood glue " moisture cured" foaming sort . 
sorry to unload this on you at this stage of the game  
mel


----------



## Shultzy

Hi Mel and John - I was thinking that 15g brads would be ok, but the nailer for firing these nails are expensive (£200+). If I have to hire a nailer it might be better to find one that puts in "real" flat top nails.


----------



## Shultzy

Hi Byron - My shed will be 16ft x 8ft based on 8x8 frames. I wondered why so many noggins in the base? I was only going to put one in between each joist along the centreline, surely once the floor is down the joists are going nowhere.
I was surprised you screwed the noggings, nails would have been quicker and cheaper. I'm also surprised you used nails in the wall frames. Most bought sheds are nailed, and with the cladding on and the inside covering nothing will move.
I was going to use 3x2 @ 2ft centres in the walls. How did you arrive at using 4x2 .

Electrics - Make sure you lay a supply that can take 16amps, as if you ever want to put in a universal machine it will need this much current, the difference in cost of cable is minimal.

Security - I'm going to make cladded frames hinged under the windows, when folded up put a couple of coach bolts through to the inside with wing nuts on. Its resonably cheap and you can leave the plastic windows in. 
Wireless Alarms systems are pretty cheap now which you could extend to the house at a later date.


----------



## ByronBlack

Schultzy

Screws were used because thats what I felt was right, didn't want to use nails, also screws allow for parts to be removed, nails don't.

I used that amount of noggins on the floor, because if you have heavy machinery, you don't want the weight all on just the ply floor!

4x2 is the standard for stud walls and gives the proper recess for a lot of the off the shelf insulation. With 3x2 your losing more room for the insulation.


----------



## ByronBlack

*Day 16 Summary and Photos*

Roof is finally complete! I thought that after putting on the felt, but after noticing some ingress of water, I decided the bitumen panels would be better than a built-up felt roof - and I really couldn't be pineappled with the felt anymore!

Today then was quite productive, the roof is complete, the cladding is complete. Tomorrow should see all the facia and soffit boards going up, aswell as the rest of the trim. The cladding on the right hand side will also be painted.

The last job of this stage of the build will be to fit the doors. Luckily, Wickes have a new stock of doors, and they have the ones that I designed the frame for. So as soon as I get paid, i'll be ordering the doors and fitting them. Then it's just onto the interior.

Photos:

Finished Roof:







Finished Cladding:





Had a small problem with the last cladding board, so had to dig out my new dinky kirschen butt chisels - worked nicely out of the box (review will be coming soon):







*Summary*

Just need to fill some holes where a few knots have fallen out and get the rest of the cladding done.

Overall, i'm well chuffed so far!


----------



## mel

looking good mate


----------



## Inspector

I've never seen that type of corrugated panel on this side of the world, (plastic, fiberglass, and metal we have). Can you walk on it without damaging it?


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## ByronBlack

Inspector - yes, surprisingly despite it being quite rubbery and light its extremely strong. I'm quite heavy, and could walk over it without it flattening out. It really is great stuff.

I believe its made in Belgium, and called Onduline. The only thing about it though as it that it stinks!


----------



## ByronBlack

*Day 17*

Not sure I could call this a proper day really as i've been rained out of action almost from the time I crawled out of bed.

We've had downpours, thunder and lightning and heavy winds, all on a day I expected to be mostly dry - damn met office!

Anyways, it was a bit of a milestone today though. It was the first day I actually got to work IN the workshop rather than ON it. Not that I did much though. Just sorted all my offcuts and left over timbers. Tidied the place up, removed the polysheet and tarps from the floor as I don't need them now that the roof is complete.

I wasn't sure what to do with all the smaller offcuts (less than 2 ft). I had a large box left over from the trend extractor, so I thought it would make sense to start chopping it all up into smaller blocks for fire wood ready for when I get my woodstove! I now have loads of the stuff, easily for a good couple of weeks I would imagine, and I still have 20m + of timber left.

I have loads of 6x2 left over, so I think i'm going to use these along with the bit of OSB and Ply I have to make a solid assembly/festool table.

I have quite a lot of building material left over if anyone is interested:

- Half roll of roofing membrane (can be used on walls too)
- 22 Threaded Rods and corresponding nuts (100 or so)
- 100 Plastic caped screws for corrugated roofing 
- Full roll of DPC
- 4 Tarpaulins (with a few staple holes, but otherwise good)
- 1 Large Hippo Bag
- 2 Bags of 13mm Clout Nails

£30 quid the lot if you collect, I might even through in some timber.


----------



## SketchUp Guru

If it's not too late, don't cut up the longer short pieces of timber yet. You might find them handy for your benches.

A few years ago, after building my shed, I had a lot of leftover 2x lumber. I jointed and planed the stuff down to consistent sizes and to square it up. I cut out the really bad parts and then sorted what was left by length. In SketchUp I designed a frame and panel shop cabinet to utilize all that wood. I ended up with a base unit that is 24" deep, 6' long and about 42" high. The upper unit make the overall cabinet 7' tall. The only thing I had to buy was a couple of inexpensive sheets of 1/4" ply for the panels. I still have to make the doors for it but it has turned out to be very useful. Somewhere I still have the SU drawings.


----------



## ByronBlack

Hi Dave

Your cabinet sounds good - would be interesting to see the model if you get chance. The only off-cuts i'm cutting into fuel are the lengths that are signifigantly smaller than 2' there was quite a lot, but I do still have a lot of the 6x2 and the 4x2 left in longer lengths. So I should have more enough for a couple of cabinets and the assembly table 

*Update*

Rain stopped earlier, and is not due until late this evening, so I managed to get out in time and get the rest of the cladding finished. I'm now currently sharpening my new plane ready to get the wood for the facia's, soffits and trim pieces planed and installed.

It really hammered down earlier, and there hasn't been a spot of moisture in the workshop, so all the work to the roof has defintly been worth it. Also, because the corrugated sheets are kind of rubbery, the noise wasn't that much different to felt


----------



## wizer

good work Byron. I am seriously tempted by those corrugated panels. Allthough i'd go for clear to let some light in.


----------



## Con Owen

Hi Byron--shed looks great! I've really enjoyed and learnt a lot from reading this thread. 
Hope you don't mind if I pick up on something Shultzy commented he is going to possible use in his shed.

Cheers Con

Hi Shultzy--For what its worth. I see you may be considering using a universal in your shed. I guess that this will be very heavy. Be very wary of using plywood flooring, I would recommend concrete. My shed has 18mm plywood floor (possibly of low quality) supported by 3x2 bearers at 400mm centres. When moving my tablesaw on its mobile stand (174kgs) the wheels on 2 or 3 occasions sunk slightly (1/4'') into the board due no doubt to the fact there were voids in the plywood. Overcame this (worked so far--keeping fingers crossed) by completely covering the plywood with MR 18mm chipboard (from Wicks) recommended to me on this forum by JFC.

Cheers Con


----------



## Freetochat

Con Owen":331yuggo said:


> For what its worth. I see you may be considering using a universal in your shed. I guess that this will be very heavy. Be very wary of using plywood flooring, I would recommend concrete.



If the floor has 'give' and you are using a machine, you could have difficulty setting up. I had a little give in my floor and it had an affect on setting up the tables of a P/T


----------



## llangatwgnedd

If you are using those corrugated sheets remember you still need a vapour barrier or you'll have drip drip on a frosty morn as for a vibration free floor why not cut a hole in the floor as big as your biggest footprint of what ever machine, line it with polythene and pour concrete in simple and cheap. 8)


----------



## wizer

Sawdust Producer":3uxsh024 said:


> If you are using those corrugated sheets remember you still need a vapour barrier or you'll have drip drip on a frosty morn



Byron shouldn't need this as he's fitted over a felted roof? But might cause a problem for me as I intend to use the clear stuff to let in light. hmmm


----------



## llangatwgnedd

Wizer they are even worse for condensation Bloke few doors down is still cursing the clear ones.
I have had the bitumen ones for over six years and no sign of wear, but the caps on the nails have all popped up like what Byron is experiencing


----------



## JFC

Wizer , don't do it !!!!! I used the clear stuff in my build area and even in the summer it was like it was raining in there all day ! I ended up having to ply the roof and felt it and then put the clear stuff back on ( as id already bought it) .


----------



## wizer

point taken and solved a conundrum. I've allready boarded the roof and it was a flip up between swapping the boards for corrugated or to install windows. Bit more expensive to put the windows in, but I can see will be better in terms of insulation and leaks


----------



## aldel

Wizer,

You will rue the day if you use clear corrugated plastic. I did once. It was a huge (and costly) mistake. Terrible condensation and it rattled when windy. The plastic caps over the stainless screws kept popping after a while.
Had the roof replaced with proper ply and industrial strength burn-on felt.
Roofers fitted a secure double skin domed roof-light and even that will give condensation on cold days.

Aldel


----------



## ByronBlack

I do have a breathable membrane on the roofing OSB, followed by the felt and then the sheeting, so hopefully that should give me enough air-flow to avoid condensation, but also to provide a nice warm roof. It will be insulated from the inside too.

Wizer, I still have quite a lot of the breathable membrane left if you want it for your workshop, should be enough for your roof and your walls.

I would really recommend the Onduline Sheeting for your roof - really fast to install, easy, light and not to costly.

Although, if I were you, I would get a good plastic adhesive to stick the screw caps down, as with others and myself, they do pop up, or sometimes don't even clip down properly, although most are ok. Again, I have a fair few left over if you wish to use them - I have no other use for them now.


----------



## Barry Burgess

Byron your thread is riveting but you have some way to go !! 
Redefining the Aussie Workbench has 17604 views and 323 replies and Birth of a Shop on Sawmill has 82817 views and 1200 replies.
Hope you beat them.
Barry


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## johnjin

Hi Byron
Don't worry I will help to keep the numbers up. 
This has been a fascinating read for a few weeks now. I have thorughly enjoyed reading about your ups and downs and indecisions. Thank you for starting this thread and reporting it all so honestly. I am sure it has been a big help to a lot of people as well as entertaining. Best of luck with the rest of the project and I will be looking for updates every day.

All the best

John


----------



## Shultzy

Con Owen - Thanks for your comments. I will be using 3/4" t&g flooring on 6x2 @ 16" centres in my workshop. I never considered plywood as I thought it would have too much give for a universal. I'm also going to use 5/8" t&g on the roof and use heavy duty roof felt. I've designed it as a 1 in 6 pent roof so I should'nt have the problems of a flat roof. I have had a 6x4 shed for nearly 20 years and I've had to recover it 3 times due to high winds ripping the felt. The felt I'm using now is much thicker so I don't think I'll have the same issues.


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## mrbingley

Wizer, if you go the sheeting way, remember to strike a chalk line where the fastenings go.
That way you'll end up with a straight line of fixings without missing any joist fixing points.


Chris.


----------



## dedee

BB/Wizer,
I've had the corrugated bitumen sheets for abour 5 or 6 years fitted to rafters and purlins with nothing underneath & have never noticed condensation. Admittedly they are on an unheated garden shed. I have used the corrugated foam fillers at the eaves with gaps for ventilation.

I got worried about those caps popping and initially stuck them down with black roofing mastik filler. I don't bother anymore and there are no signs of leaks.


Andy


----------



## GCR

Byron 

Thank you for starting this fascinating topic. I admire your frankness and the responses from the group. This has been one of the most informative subjects I have followed on UKWorkshop. 

Bob


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## wizer

Cheers BB that breathable membrane could be useful, allthough i'm not sure when i'd be able to get over to pick it up. Will let you know.


----------



## ByronBlack

Hanging Doors!

I've ordered my doors from Wickes, and will be here in the next couple of weeks. I've never hung or installed a door in my life, and have no idea of hw to go about this, how the frame needs to be installed, how to fit locks and handles etc..

What i'm looking for then is a good online resource with tutorials, pictures, articles etc.. that sort of thing. I've not found much at the moment, and with finances tight, I cant buy a book from amazon either.

Help and Info greatly received. 

I will also need to do more windows soon, so if there any links/sites that any of you know of for making them would be very useful too!


----------



## RogerS

There's this one
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/Hangingdoor.htm

and this one
http://www.diyfixit.co.uk/nflash/Buildi ... imming.htm

and if you can stomach it, this one
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/knowhow ... 44,00.html

How's that for starters?


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## OLD

If you are still looking for info on green houses .
http://www.woodworkersworkshop.com/resources/index.php?cat=445


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## ByronBlack

Roger & OLD - Thanks for links guys, much appreciated!

*Day 18*

Only had a few hours today, but decided to get going with the facia boards and soffits. I really wished I spent the extra money and had the boards planed, trying to run a 4m length through a small benchtop jointer is a real pain in the proverbial. 

I took my handplane to the stuff in the end, didn't get a great finish, as the pine is more wooly than my favourite jumper 

So, the boards were somewhat planed and cut to length, not having help made positioning the boards very difficult, but I managed it in the end. I'm sure swearing makes woodworking that little bit easier.

I need to address the facia board on the front - because of the slope of hte roof, the left-hand side doesnt overhang that side of the wall like the right hand side. I'm thinking of purchasing a piece of 8x1 and attaching that to the current 6x1 - should give a neater finish.

Photo's:

Front pieces attached and painted:






Facia board and soffit attached to the right hand side:





*Summary*

Tomorrow should see the end-caps going on for the back of the shed (where the two edges of the cladding meets). I'm also going to add some kick-boards (not sure what the real term is) to the bottom. 

I'm also not happy with the right-hand side facia board. There is a small gap between the board and the top of the roofing sheets. So, I think what i'll do is make a small fillet with a moulded edge, and attach this ontop of the facia board to take up the gap, and provide a round-over to make rain easier to run into the guttering.

To do:
- Fix the final piece of cladding at the top of the left-hand wall.
- Make and attach a moulded fillet to take up the gap on the facia board.
- Install kick-boards
- Figure out a solution for the front facia board
- Fit facia board to the rear of the workshop.

Hopefully I can get most of that done tomorrow.


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## Shultzy

Haven't seen "kicker boards" before, I just made sure that the cladding projected about 1/2" below the floor joists so that the rain ran off.


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## mel

byron 
sorry to point out the obvious 
you need to keep the bottom edge of the board level and cut the top edge 
to suit the pitch of the roof 
have you left enough overhang on the roof sheets for the guttering to pick up the rainwater ?? {the photos not so clear }
mel


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## ByronBlack

HI Mel

Despite it being the obvious thing to do with regards cutting the front facia board to match the pitch, I seemed to have easily overlooked that - doh!

There is a small overhang from the roofing sheets, but after sleeping on it, and looking at this morning, I don't think it's adequate. This is due to fitting the soffit board first and then attaching the facia to the soffit, rather than attaching the facia directly to the ends of the joists - basically, this was bourne out of laziness on my part.

*Day 19*

S**t, b******s, b*****r! Today has not been good. Got up nice and early to get started only to find a cat or a gang of cats have decided to use the workshop as a toilet - that was not fun clearing up.

Then I dropped a brand new box of nails, all over the floor and into the sawdust and shavings that I didn't clean up last night. And to top it all off, I realised all the work I did yesterday was utter rubbish and had to come down.

The front facia was clearly wrong - the facia and the soffit on the righthand side just looked shoody, and wasn't up to scratch interms of finish, or fitting, so that came down.

The next annoying thing to happen was the long piece of 3x1 I had for one of the corner pieces slipped out of my hand and cracked down the middle through a knot - it was my last piece.

I'm really peed off with this part of the build. I thought it was going to be enjoyable, but not being able to plane and install these long boards is starting to get me down a bit. Thats why I have decided to take it all down (facia's etc..) and start again.

My usual enthusiasm during this project is to get it finsihed. After the annoyances of today I think my enthusiasm has now changed into an enthusiasm to get it right.

I'll be begging, borrowing or stealing a handheld power planer to get the boards smooth, admitting defeat and asking my dad for some help, and ordering some more wood for the front facia (8x1) so that I can cut the pitch into it and get it looking right.

For now, i'm mostly digging our the rest of the drain-away in front of the workshop as i'm fed up of having a wobbly surface for the ladder.

*Summary*

GRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

P.S Anyone who has a similar feeling about one of their projects, please read my signature below by Mr Churchill - keeps me going everytime.


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## wizer

Chin Up Byron, i have had more than a few of those days on my build. At least your nearly done and water tight. 

When are you doing the doors and electric?


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## ByronBlack

Hi Wizer

Doors will should be done in the next fortnight - just waiting till I get a weekend off from work to fit them, the electrics, not entire sure. My girlfriends dad is going to come over in a few weeks time to assess things, and he'll be doing my wiring and isntallation for me, a pal of his will then do the part p certificate as a favour to him - so atleast there is no headache for that one!

I think the most frustrating thing is not knowing exactly how to do something and realising that a day has been wasted, and that all the work that you thought you did has amounted to nothing, BUT atleast it was a day away from my mundane job and I can chalk it up to experience!


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## JFC

I have a new found respect for you Byron , you have entered into the land of that'll do wont do ! Even when it costs more money .
Nice one :wink:


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## ByronBlack

*Day 20 Update*

I've now finished the facia-boards and finished off some more trim-work by adding a piece of cladding to very bottom of the workshop to stop any ingress of moisture - hard to explain, but it was a small job that needed doing.

All I need to do now is fit the soffits, and the doors - probably won't do that until next month now, I've got some poly stapled to the door opening to prevent the cats, badgers, foxes and small lost children from getting in.

No pictures at the moment as my SD card is broken - grr!

A question: I need some kind of filler/putty to fill in the knots, a few cracks and some gaps - it needs to go on easy and be paintable - can anyone recommend something? It's for the outside.


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## engineer one

nice to see you back byron.

i would suggest that since you are going to have a painted finish,
use P38 or a similar car filler since it is designed to be used outside, and generally does not shrink.

paul :wink:


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## Barry Burgess

Byron welcome back and thanks for taking the time to update us. 
Barry 
A Byron & WiZeR fan


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## PowerTool

Barry Burgess":9pp12gt6 said:


> Byron welcome back and thanks for taking the time to update us.
> Barry
> A Byron & WiZeR fan



Same here - have missed the daily updates  

Andrew


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## ByronBlack

HI guy's glad to know that you're still interested in the thread. Progress is quite slow at the moment due to the rain and my current finance situation, but that should change from next month where i'll be concentrating on getting the doors done and I might start making the windows.

In the meantime i'll be using the workshop for my first project - making a series of desks for the office that we are currently decorating. I'll probably make a table for the festool for this job as i've loads of timber left over, i'm thinking of making it 4'x6' with a couple of hinged wings to extend it to the full 8' so that I can rip and cross cut a full 8'x4' sheet.


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## ByronBlack

*Day 21*

I decided to come out of hibernation for a short while and get some more work done on the workshop. I've been having issues with the Facia and Soffits, and in my last main update I decided to take down my first attempt and start again.

After Mel phoned me and gave me some excellent advise, I had another crack at it, this time doing it correctly. The results are much more satisfiying.

I've also fitted the doors - a major milestone for me as I was dreading this. My dad kindly fitted the first door and showed me how to do it. I was then able to go ahead and fit the second door. 

Here are some pics:

The first door on, and the facia's:





Both doors on, and new hasp fitted - very late now:





*Summary*

It doesn't seem like i've done a lot from the photo's, but here is a list of what was done during this day:

- Fitted front and rear Facia boards - using 8x1 and scribing to roof line
- Fitted bottom piece of cladding to side and rear - requires painting
- Made a corner-cap for the rear (hides end-grain of cladding)
- Painted the first door (left one - looks messy around windows, but has a protective film to come off)
- Fitted the second door, it required a small fillet to fill a gap.
- Fitted the hasp
- Organised all my timber and generally tidied up.
- Rigged up some site-lights in the workshop (kindly donated to me by Mel)

This was all on top of having to deal with plumbers after the carpet fitter decided to put a nail in my radiator pipe in the office - oh and the office is now fully equiped. My desk project got cancelled, and desks were bought from (apologies for the swear word) Ikea - SWMBO's idea!!

All that is left for this stage of the build is a bit of painting, filling of a few holes/cracks and the fitting of soffits and guttering.

Next stage will be electrics and interior.

*Name that workshop*

I've decided to make a nice plaque (not sure if that is the right spelling) to go on the front to commemorate the building of this, and i'm open for idea's for the naming of this workshop. Fire away, any suggestios considered!


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## PowerTool

Oooh,now that looks a _lot_ better  (Paint makes it look great - nice colour!)

Are you going to do an "outfitting the workshop" thread as well ? [-o< 

Andrew


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## OLD

Name 'No Loss Of Enthusiasm'


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## Lord Nibbo

It's looking fabulous Byron, you must be well pleased. 

Dunno about a name, but you could put a sign above those doors which read "Carp-entry" :lol: Well if you do a Philly and host an open day (I expect an invite) I suppose "Carp-Entry for Old Gits" would be a proper job. :lol: 

PS.... what about "SWMBO's Per Mission" :lol:


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## CHJ

Sorry my only observation so far is negative *Byron*, but door security will need to be far higher than the hasp and padlock before you instal any equipment.
I'm afraid that can be removed in just a few seconds by the recycling section of the community.

Full marks for enthusiasm and tackling the learning slope, the next time round will be that much easier :lol:


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## Les Mahon

Byron,

Full marks for persevernce. It's looking great.

Like Chas I would have some concerns on the secuirty front. What I did in my last workshop was to fit These into the bottom of the doors. Not by any means fort knox, but would require more noise with a crowbar to remove.

I don't want to be negative, as I am keenly aware of the effort you put in, I did it myself 18 months ago, then sold the house  ! I'm only concerned that your precious tools will be safe

All the best
Les


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## ByronBlack

Thanks for the suggestions on the names - i'll make a note, keep them coming!

The hasp is only temporary! I will be fitting two mortice locks and a dead-bolt, there will also be iron-bars behind the door glazing. I've not started the security stage yet, but it will be very comprehensive, the hasp is just so that I can atleast keep the doors closed at night.

Les, my worry with those bolts that you linked to would be that any serious burgler would probably have a couple of those hex-keys with him, espeically as you can just buy them of the shelf.

Andrew - an outfitting thread would be a good idea, but in all honesty that would take quite a few years as I have virtually no money for tools so it would be getting updated barely once every two months. I will however contine to update this thread with pictures of the interior as and when I can get to do anything.


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## mel

ohhh yes, looking good mate 
did you keep a tally of how much it all cost ??? 
this may be of use to other forum members {or a deterent}   
what a learning curve youve been on , you deserve a pat on the back 
hope youve got enough tools to start you off in the workshop , the machines can come later when you recognise what you really need
how about one of them combination machines ???? 
all youve got to do now is find enough time to "ENJOY" 
good luck with the new workshop , and do enjoy it 
regards 
mel 

suggestion for name 
HOME FROM HOME


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## jasonB

Looking good so far, what about calling it the "New Essex Workshop" :wink: 

Jason


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## SketchUp Guru

Very nice. Good work there. Keep it up and thanks for sharing.


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## promhandicam

Congratulations Byron on all your hard work. Not perhaps a name for your workshop but maybe a motto:

'Prolonged endurance tames the bold.' - Lord Byron

Steve


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## ByronBlack

Mel - As far as total cost, I havn't got an exact figure but it stands at over £2000 currently, but this includes a lot of the tool purchases I made during the build.

I would estimate it will cost atleast another £500-600 to complete the interior, windows and security. I have made some costly mistakes along the way and there are things I did that could have been done a lot cheaper. But aslong as it comes out to under £3k i'll be happy.

Jason: 'New Essex Workshop' have you not seen my avatar! :lol: :lol: 

Steve - nice quote, i'll keep that in mind!

*Day 22*

Today most of my work was on the interior, I was hoping to get the second door and the last pieces of cladding painted today but it was far too cold and drizzly to get it sorted.

So, with that in mind, I wanted to get the door jamb completed, get the donated site-lights attached to the roof to give me good lighting until the electrics get done, and generally have a good clean/tidy.

So, on to the very first pics of the interior:

Going clock wise, this is starting from the front-left hand corner:






Left wall and rear wall:





Rear wall and right wall:





Front-right hand side:





View from the back looking to the front doors:





*Summary*

So, another couple of jobs done today, hanging the lights has made the workshop much more useful, and i'll be able to get out there more in the evening. I'll be moving my el-cheapo workbench in over the weekend along with some storage. I'll have to think up some projects to use up the very large amount of timber I have left over, including some nice planned 8x1


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## mrbingley

Is there a reason why there is no vapour barrier on the left side of the workshop ?

Chris.


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## RogerS

Super workshop, Byron.

In view of your signature line, maybe you could call it "Never in the field of human conflict....." :wink:


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## ByronBlack

Mr Bingley - the reason there is no vapor barrier on the left hand side is because that wall went up with the cladding already on it due to no access on that side, and by then it was already up and then the vapor barrier was mentioned. So I bought it after that wall was complete, hence why it is on all the others.

I intend to fit vapor-barrier on the inside of that wall to protect the insulation when that goes in in the new year


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## ByronBlack

A small update on the workshop.

All the wiring is complete. The lights are also fitted. A security light has been wired and installed above the doors. 

Next weekend I intend to finish off all the small jobs to the external (such as: fill knot-holes, a bit more painting, fixing cladding with larger nails).

I'll also be ordering the insulation and 9mm ply for the internal cladding, still need to decide on what insulation i'm going to use, i'll probably just go for whatever is the cheapest, the celiling will be plasterboarded. 

I've moved the workbench in, and have drawn up plans for the layout, this includes some preliminary designs for a wall-mounted panel saw using the festool saw and guide rail!

In the meantime, here's a pic of the workshop with our recent snow:


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## Adam

I obtained a price list after emailing these people, http://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ who were discussed on the forum recently.

Adam


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## OllyK

ByronBlack":25smhs0h said:


> A small update on the workshop.
> 
> All the wiring is complete. The lights are also fitted. A security light has been wired and installed above the doors.
> 
> Next weekend I intend to finish off all the small jobs to the external (such as: fill knot-holes, a bit more painting, fixing cladding with larger nails).
> 
> I'll also be ordering the insulation and 9mm ply for the internal cladding, still need to decide on what insulation i'm going to use, i'll probably just go for whatever is the cheapest, the celiling will be plasterboarded.
> 
> I've moved the workbench in, and have drawn up plans for the layout, this includes some preliminary designs for a wall-mounted panel saw using the festool saw and guide rail!
> 
> In the meantime, here's a pic of the workshop with our recent snow:



Looking good! Plasterboard is certainyl cheaper - I used some on the walls of mine at the sort of height I won't be putting hooks and the like. 8'x4' 9mm ply £12 a sheet about a fiver for the same size of plasterboard. I'd also be tempted go with slightly thicker than 9mm if I was doing it again, just make sure it attaches to the frame on all 4 sides otherwise it can flex quite a lot still.


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## Cookie

Whats your thoughts on wooden floor v concrete in a workshop? I would be grateful of all pitfalls 

Cookie


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## Shultzy

Cookie - If you search the forum you will find most people prefer a wooden floor, wood is a better insulator and kinder to your feet and tools.


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## ByronBlack

Cookie. I had a concrete base already laid in the garden but chose to lay a wooden floor because for me its much nicer to stand on, its better for your tools (if you drop them) and it's warmer. Also, the cost of a wooden floor can be cheaper than laying a new concrete base if you have a suitable area in which to construct it.


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## Cookie

thanks Shultzy and Byron for your comments. Cookie


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