# The shame of a tidy workshop



## Sporky McGuffin (4 Jan 2022)

I've noticed a fair few comments (including from the grumpy sod who is my step-father-in-law) that anyone with a clean and tidy workshop can't be making anything.

I find this an odd attitude; I'm just a hobbyist, not doing it for a living, so I don't have a lot of time to spend making stuff. I still (or perhaps because of that) sweep up after every messy operation, and I do my best to put tools back where they belong - on pegboards for the stuff I use most, in cabinet drawers for stuff I use less often, in their boxes for the bigger power tools. Consequently when I'm not actually doing something my workshop looks pretty tidy and organised - to me this is the easy way to do things, because if I've not been in there for a week or more I can actually find the stuff I need to get on with making the things I want to.

Today a load of organiser cases arrived because I was getting annoyed with all the little packets and boxes of screws and bolts and so on strewn across the racking units - they'll actually take up less space this way as well as being easier to find.

Am I the weird one? Surely a messy and disorganised workshop is less safe and productive than a clean and tidy workshop?


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## Cabinetman (4 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I've noticed a fair few comments (including from the grumpy sod who is my step-father-in-law) that anyone with a clean and tidy workshop can't be making anything.
> 
> I find this an odd attitude; I'm just a hobbyist, not doing it for a living, so I don't have a lot of time to spend making stuff. I still (or perhaps because of that) sweep up after every messy operation, and I do my best to put tools back where they belong - on pegboards for the stuff I use most, in cabinet drawers for stuff I use less often, in their boxes for the bigger power tools. Consequently when I'm not actually doing something my workshop looks pretty tidy and organised - to me this is the easy way to do things, because if I've not been in there for a week or more I can actually find the stuff I need to get on with making the things I want to.
> 
> ...


Well, has the G O sod got a workshop of his own? It’s probably jealousy and he might be extremely well balanced in that he’s got chips on both shoulders. Your workshop your rules, sounds just fine to me. Ian


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## Adam W. (4 Jan 2022)

No you're not the only one, my studio at the C&G is spotless, as it should be. There's mess, but it's on or under the bench, but I have had comments that it looks as though I'm not doing anything.


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## southendwoodworker (4 Jan 2022)

When mine is tidy I feel shame because it seems like I haven't used it enough.

So I then use it, make a mess, then feel shame about it being messy.


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## PerryGunn (4 Jan 2022)

You're not the only one - I've got a relatively small workshop and you have to be tidy in a small space. 

I try to keep the workbench as clear as possible and all of my hand tools are put back in their cases when no longer needed for the job in hand (or when I stop for the day) and the cases are kept on shelves under the workbench. This may mean that jobs take a bit longer but my time is my own...


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## artie (4 Jan 2022)

I am a very untidy person by nature, but it seems less so as I grow older.

I make my living in "the shap" so I have to keep a certain order.

Others have told me it's very tidy.
I think it's a mess


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## Sporky McGuffin (4 Jan 2022)

Well, that's reassuring - thanks!

I don't have a wall full of planes if that helps.


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## clogs (4 Jan 2022)

in my last workshop there was prof metal and wood machines....all big stuff....every once in a while...certainly once a year everything was taken outside and the place thoroughly cleaned....
I made it so all machine could be moved with a pallet truck...
always cheared me up doing it.....never feltit was awaste of time....


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## Peter Sefton (4 Jan 2022)

I like to keep my workshop clean, I was always taught tidy workshop tidy work. It has be organised when you have students coming through or you spend half the day looking for stuff.

Cheers

Peter


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## D_W (4 Jan 2022)

I am on the opposite side of this - my shop is messy. It will always be messy. I am a messy person and there's definitely a brain type issue here - my brain doesn't notice (at least not much) messy until it gets in the way of working. 

But if someone wants to have a perfectly tidy workshop and they work in rhythm in it (actually, what they do in it, I don't really care, but there are people who work organized in rhythm because it's natural for them), then I can't see why it should bother me with a messy workshop. 

What's more common for me is to run into people who do have a neat workshop and who don't do much in it and who faff about trying to avoid making anything marked, dirty, etc, constantly fetching sheets of things to put over work surfaces. These folks are either extremely careful about everything to a fault or they just put the making behind the shop preservation. They're conservationists of their own space, and not surprisingly - appalled by mine. 

I'll bet I have 100 planes, and I don't have a wall of them, either (before anyone freaks out, think keeping a few planes to copy - infills - couple of each of bench planes in wood and metal and then a whole lot of moulding planes). 

If you love your shop neat, that's for you. If you fling that onto other people who aren't interested (which I don't gather you do), I find it prissy. That's the word I use with people who bring it up here. Especially if they start going on about "nobody can work in a shop that's not organized, so you are wasting time in yours". 
(there's usually something in the back of their mind about working in a shop with other people - which I suddenly find to be a necessity so that you can find tools that other people have put away).


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## D_W (4 Jan 2022)

(if I did have a wall of planes, they would be black with a film of metal dust - another thing you supposedly can't do in a workshop, but that's not terribly consequential as far as I can tell other than benefiting from blowing the dust out of the shop from time to time and not walking in bare feet).


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## eribaMotters (4 Jan 2022)

I always leave my workshop tidy. I finish one task, or if machining timber etc get to a natural breakpoint and then set up for what ever is next. I even go as far as doing a job sheet so I know what is next when I walk through the door. I got into these habits partly because I'm a bit OCD but also because when time is limited you want to make maximum use of it.

Colin


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## Sideways (4 Jan 2022)

It's a constant battle. I have a v small space so I've made lots of organisation just to fit in it, but it's time consuming to get tools out of boxes and put away. I tend to create clutter during a job and try to put away at the end.
The problem is I want to work on three jobs at once while I wait for materials etc and have nowhere to pack away the work in progress ! Chaos that's only tolerable as a retired amateur. I'd never allow it if it was a business.
One of my mates is far more dilligent than me and if you put a spanner down, by the time I reach for it again, he'll have tidied it away )) His way is better in his shed.


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## Sporky McGuffin (4 Jan 2022)

Sideways said:


> One of my mates is far more dilligent than me and if you put a spanner down, by the time I reach for it again, he'll have tidied it away )) His way is better in his shed.



I have on occasion wondered if all my tools should be on elastic so if I put them down in the wrong place they snap back to the right place... I get mildly distressed by spaces on the pegboard.


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## Cabinetman (4 Jan 2022)

Sideways said:


> One of my mates is far more dilligent than me and if you put a spanner down, by the time I reach for it again, he'll have tidied it away


That would drive me completely nuts! I’m definitely of the sort that tidy up at the end of the job, fortunate to have long benches (way more than I need) which do sort of build up tut and tat at the ends


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## D_W (4 Jan 2022)

Probably a plain lesson from this is that you get to do what you like in your shop, and if commentary from someone else doesn't improve you doing what you like, you get to disregard it.


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## dzj (4 Jan 2022)

I do this for a living, but I also like to keep my shop tidy. Some silly people make the connection between cleanliness and 
lack of work here also, but I don't care. 
Sometimes though, the workload overwhelms me and I can't achieve the level of neatness I'd like.
The end of 2021 was such a time and for the past few days I've been sorting out the King Augeas' stables
my shop's turned into.


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## D_W (4 Jan 2022)

Sideways said:


> One of my mates is far more dilligent than me and if you put a spanner down, by the time I reach for it again, he'll have tidied it away )) His way is better in his shed.



this is my wife in any household project "you stop and stand there, I have to clean things up" - this could be literally mid cut or mid-fitting something and she will boast afterwards about all of the help that she provided. When I put my kitchen in, I suggested she visit her parents and had my dad out for four days. I had forgotten what it was like to work with something where you spend all of your time on "go" and clean up only when you have to take a break from the work.


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## Jacob (4 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I've noticed a fair few comments (including from the grumpy sod who is my step-father-in-law) that anyone with a clean and tidy workshop can't be making anything.
> ......


No, but "unused" can be a sign! 
I have the opposite problem, I can't make anything because of the mess.


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## doctor Bob (4 Jan 2022)

I find it impossible to have a clean workshop, 7 of us in there, usually flat out. However at xmas we have a massive tidy up and return in the New Year to a squeaky clean workshop (tomorrow) and love it.


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## paulrbarnard (4 Jan 2022)

Mine gets untidy as I work but I always tidy between projects.


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## MARK.B. (4 Jan 2022)

I like to think that my workshop could be described as" organized chaos " to a casual observer , the floor is kept as clean and clear of trip hazards as possible and hazardous stuff is put away or out of reach. Every now and then I blitz the place and clean the window's, but I could and probably should be a bit tidier .


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## Spectric (4 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I've noticed a fair few comments (including from the grumpy sod who is my step-father-in-law) that anyone with a clean and tidy workshop can't be making anything.


Is there not a similar quote about the wife who keeps a spotless house. 



Sporky McGuffin said:


> Today a load of organiser cases arrived because I was getting annoyed with all the little packets and boxes of screws and bolts and so on strewn across the racking units - they'll actually take up less space this way as well as being easier to find.


I can fully see where you are coming from and can readily relate to this situation, but you will always be chasing the dream. I have done something similar and have a tidy racking unit with pots and tubs on it but now spend more time searching for what I am convinced I have somewhere. So next stage I produced a nice spreadsheet with everything listed and it's location but now I have to maintain the sodddding spreadsheet. 

We all have a good excuse, wood is just messy and produces far more dust than metalworking ever could and so you need to strike a balance, reasonably clean most of the time and then a really good clean less frequently.


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## Jameshow (4 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> Is there not a similar quote about the wife who keeps a spotless house.
> 
> 
> I can fully see where you are coming from and can readily relate to this situation, but you will always be chasing the dream. I have done something similar and have a tidy racking unit with pots and tubs on it but now spend more time searching for what I am convinced I have somewhere. So next stage I produced a nice spreadsheet with everything listed and it's location but now I have to maintain the sodddding spreadsheet.
> ...


Yeap my wife keeps a spotless house..... 

To cope with it, I go and plane wood..... 

Needs a clean and a decent dust extraction system setting up!


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## Sporky McGuffin (4 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> We all have a good excuse, wood is just messy and produces far more dust than metalworking ever could and so you need to strike a balance, reasonably clean most of the time and then a really good clean less frequently.



Yup - I'm not claiming mine is spotless, but I have good dust control and a broom!


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## TheTiddles (4 Jan 2022)

Just done the first proper clean in 10-years, some things were where I left them from that time.

I aspire to tidy, hopefully might be closer to that from now on.

Wood doesn’t make a lot of dust if you have decent extraction, I remember someone once saying they don’t understand why people bother with it, same person who finds sawblades blunt fast too… I wonder if there’s a connection in there somewhere?


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## ArtieFufkin (4 Jan 2022)

As a weekend Woodworker I always tidy on a Sunday afternoon, all tools away and vac out to pick up the dust. 
Nice to come back into a clear and tidy space. 
Wouldn't want it any other way.


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## Ozi (4 Jan 2022)

Wish I could say mine was always tidy but I do keep the dust and shavings down, partly because of the fire risk my shop is under my house SOMBO would have an opinion if I burn us out - see how highly trained I am to know these things.


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## baldkev (4 Jan 2022)

Mine is usually a mess but i am working to sort that... wall storage, a couple more base units and shelves and sell some stuff i dont need in there!
This year i need to do my extraction system properly to reduce clean up time.

I love it when its all clear, but im always busy when im there and rarely tidy up before i shoot off


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## Dynamite (4 Jan 2022)

I could write paragraphs on this but it boils down to one thing. Whatever makes YOU happy. That’s what it’s all about - happiness and having good mental health. What makes one person happy is different to the next so I encourage you not to listen to the doubters, just do what make you happy, thats the number one most important thing. Take constructive criticism and advice of course but what anyone else thinks is totally and utterly irrelevant.

Your workshop, your rules…. END OF.

Rob.


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## TRITON (4 Jan 2022)

My workshop turns into a horrendous mess for each job, and seemingly every tool,power or otherwise needs to come into play, then requires a surface to sit on for the remainder of the work. 

It gets a rough brush out between projects, and an annual brush down the walls, empty shelves and pull stuff out from walls type of clean.


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## Fitzroy (4 Jan 2022)

Since mid October I’ve been trying to change, if there is a brain type perhaps my efforts are doomed. 

Previously I’d do project after project with offcuts and tools building up around the shop on every surface, until it was almost unworkable, then it’d take me half a day to reset the place. Rinse and repeat. 

It worked ok until I had an emergency, or quick little job, to do. Then I’d be looking for that one tool for as long and the job should have taken. 

No I tidy tools always at the end of each day and sweep up shavings/dust as required. I’m much more enjoying the space to be honest. Perhaps and old dog can learn new tricks.


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## TheTiddles (4 Jan 2022)

Fitzroy said:


> Since mid October I’ve been trying to change, if there is a brain type perhaps my efforts are doomed.
> 
> Previously I’d do project after project with offcuts and tools building up around the shop on every surface, until it was almost unworkable, then it’d take me half a day to reset the place. Rinse and repeat.
> 
> ...


Same here, despite knowing full well what would happen, the mess increased, interestingly I’d never let that happen at work


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## Trainee neophyte (4 Jan 2022)

Untidy equates to inefficient or insufficient storage space. I suffer from both, and work in chaos. I hate it, and plan on making a bigger, dedicated workshop as opposed to working outside and in a lean-to, leftover space between two sheds. 

The dream would be every tool stored within reach, so take it, use it, and put it back. Even if you get a buildup of detritus, cleaning up takes moments. The reality is ten minutes of hunting for the tool, another twenty setting up a bench and electricity etc, then half an hour looking for bits, blades or other annoyances that have been put "somewhere safe". Then you put down the tool for a moment, and spend another hour wondering how it could have vanished without your stepping away from the bench. My workbench is under a shady olive tree, which sounds romantic until you drop drop a vital screw into the bare earth. Magnet on a stick has saved my bacon more times than I care to mention. My Mk3 version is a broom with a Lidl magnetic tool strip attached. Very posh.

Time to build a real workshop with a concrete floor. 200 square metres sounds about right. Lots of bench space, and even more storage. Just as soon as I win the lottery


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## danst96 (4 Jan 2022)

70% of the time my workshop is a bombsite but I spend the whole time disliking the mess but do nothing about it because "I'm too busy" on whatever I'm working on. Then eventually it gets to the point of "sort it out" and there's nothing more satisfying. This is my old workshop at it's worst, could barely move. A day later, sortedish. Could still barely move lol


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## D_W (4 Jan 2022)

The comment above about actual time spent organizing rings with my mrs. I can guarantee that even though the kids are in school, she spends 1-2 hours a day cleaning and organizing. The house is exceptionally organized upstairs and there's definitely friction over my hobbies. What's ideal for the basement and then garage would be constantly redoing of everything and reorganizing for no reason other than to make things look more neat and hide things that we have. 

When I was a kid, we'd get the sears catalog. They would display a shop that had all of their shop organization goods in it and no tools showed while they were all employed (it would've been 50 grand in current dollars, but it looked great in the catalog). I didn't think anyone bought that stuff until I met some well-to-do airline pilots who set up shops as a matter of escapism and they looked like those (but probably with stuff more expensive than sears). I don't remember them doing anything in the shop, but the odd occasion where they had an old car or a private airplane that needed a few turns of a wrench, everything was there and ready for use. 

My grandfather's shop (he was a farmer) on the other hand had a 1 inch thick steel welding table and then another. They were bigger than anyone could physically move - perhaps 5x10 feet each, and then vertical organizers aplenty with stuff in trays unlabeled. Not bench top stuff, but one fridge size thing after another. 

What sticks out in my mind is next to his welder, he had a table with wrenches and hammers and such on it where they were at least a foot thick in the center. He was in his workshop several hours a day and I never recall seeing him searching for something or pondering. There were two considerations - in the area with concrete floor (where all of his tools and supplies were), there literally wasn't enough space to store everything neatly, and 2, he was in there all the time working all the time, so he knew spatially where everything was. I guess things on the bottom of the welding table pile were seldom used and everything used often was on top. As messy as I am, it even boggled my mind. I'm thinking the table and the tools on it were at least several tons.


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## Droogs (4 Jan 2022)

I spend the last hour of my time in the wksp to clean up, put stuff away and sharpen anything that's been used. I can't help it, having everything in good to go condition as soon as you walk in the door was drummed into me by too many old soak sgts and cpls.


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## Fitzroy (4 Jan 2022)

Trainee neophyte said:


> "somewhere safe"



The best place for anything! I must have a dozen or more things there, all safe and well, but where!


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## Jameshow (4 Jan 2022)

Ok I've shared mine let's see your messy shed!!


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## deema (4 Jan 2022)

I love a tidy well organised workshop. I hate mess and clutter. I hate spending money on stuff to make it more organised so I have a dilemma. When it gets too bad I force myself to buy more / better storage. I have a good friend who has a keen eye for making things organised and spends money on superb systems to protect and store his tools….but he’s not as good at being tidy, he often complains when he puts a tool down in my workshop and reaches to get it again only to find and I’ve put it back where it belongs.


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## Orraloon (5 Jan 2022)

I would fall into the untidy group. I do clean up between jobs and start with a clean shed and sharp tools. When the place gets too messy to continue then I stop and clear up enough to keep going. That often means a clean up after stock prep and you do have to have to clear up and get organised before a big glue up. One thing I do try and maintain is keeping the bench top clear for the work and the most used tools close by. I think its a loosing battle if you let the bench become a storage surface. A few years ago I made a small tool box so I could keep the tools for a particular job close to hand and reduce bench clutter. I also made a saw till and mounted that close to the bench so I can just about keep most of what I need within easy reach.







Dont think I am any tidier over the years but getting better organised. I put french cleats on the outside of the box that takes racks with magnets so I can do a quick roundup of the tools on the bench at any time. Regards
John


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## thetyreman (5 Jan 2022)

I usually tidy everything up after a major job, I'll keep it tidy enough but not too clean because I often just want to get on with it, main thing is keeping the tools organised and often in the same place helps a lot, you will work a lot faster that way, having my bandsaw on wheels has made a big difference.... before it was right pain having to move it around.


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## Yojevol (5 Jan 2022)

I reckon an untidy workshop is the downside of a fertile mind. Always wanting to get on is more attractive than dealing with the past. However, like others here, I do try and have clean/tidy-up at the end of a project. My problem is that this can never be 100% because there is always the next project underway. 
I'm sometimes forced into a bench clearance when I've lost something and the only way to find it is to put things away until it appears. It then takes a huge amount of willpower to complete the tidy-up. If I can't find the still hidden object there's always the option of buying a replacement. That usually flushes it out. The other reason to tidy the bench is when I'm down to the last 6sq.ins of clear space. 
I've spent the last couple of days trying to resolve a problem with my CNC machine. It's now up and running again but I REALLY MUST deal with all the tools and bits and pieces left out before I actually use it.
Brian


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## B3nder (5 Jan 2022)

Small work space dictates that I need to be tidy and organised.

As it's a hobby I'd rather be able to just get started on the job than spend an age tidying.

A tool chest has helped me organise things and keep everthing neat and tidy.

Very much a clean desk clean mind type of person.

Having worked for a Japanese company and also aerospace may have something to do with it. Japanese job only have the tools required for the job is great. Aerospace foreign object debris is a no no so those two things may have something to do with it.


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## bourbon (5 Jan 2022)

5s or 5c?


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## Ollie78 (5 Jan 2022)

I struggle with keeping it as tidy as I would like it to be, ideally I would keep it like an F1 garage with every tool in its own perfectly made foam pocket thingy. 
Years ago I made a toolbox for my main hand tools with a space for everything so I can see what's missing, it is brilliant. Unfortunately I have yet to get around to doing this for any other stuff, I did put a new cupboard in for spindle tooling the other day. 

I get a bunch of work done, look around and it's a disaster zone so I get mad and tidy up, the cycle repeats.
I am always jealous of a really organised van or workshop. I would just need a month off and £20,000 and I think I could achieve it.

Ollie


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## Sporky McGuffin (5 Jan 2022)

Ollie78 said:


> I struggle with keeping it as tidy as I would like it to be, ideally I would keep it like an F1 garage with every tool in its own perfectly made foam pocket thingy.



I do like the look of those, but I don't have enough drawer space to do it - it's a lot neater, but a lot less efficient in terms of space needed for a given set of tools.

Similarly I really like those (to me) old-fashioned wooden boards where the owner has drawn the outline of each tool where it goes. It's both a good solution and has the appeal of a put-the-block-in-the-hole toy.


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## johnny (5 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> Today a load of organiser cases arrived because I was getting annoyed with all the little packets and boxes of screws and bolts and so on strewn across the racking units - they'll actually take up less space this way as well as being easier to find.
> 
> Am I the weird one? Surely a messy and disorganised workshop is less safe and productive than a clean and tidy workshop?



absolutely....just don't stack and rack all your organiser boxes with the labels facing out or the next thing is people will start saying that you're O.C.D 
I am exactly the same in this respect and I have two schools of thought on this .
1. a tidy organised workshop/shed/garage/desk makes it much easier to find the things you need without an extensive search and its easier to work in a clean tidy area that isn't full of clutter.
2. I do this because of onset Dementia and am increasingly unable to keep track of things and remember where in the hell I put/abandoned things 

When you start buying filing cabinets and foam and filing your tools you know you're in trouble


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## Andy (5 Jan 2022)

Mine is an absolute dung tip and as a result I spend more time looking for tools than I do making stuff. I would love it to be perfectly organised with lots of bespoke storage units such as you see on youtube vids. Maybe one day ....


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## JBaz (5 Jan 2022)

I have a fairly big workshop and these days it gets well used. 

I have extraction for the static machines and for sanding I use a shop vac, but inevitably the shop becomes untidy and messy during projects. I do put my tools away at the end of most sessions, just so I can find them the next time I want them.

I have developed the habit of starting each new project by cleaning the workshop, including vacuuming the fitted carpets I use to "soften" the concrete floor (I hasten to add that the carpets were fitted to the rooms they came from, not the workshop!) but my big problem is the dust that doesn't get extracted. It gets everywhere and I had to make a polythene cover for my metal lathe to stop the dust choking the ways, but it still gets a coating under the cover. 

It doesn't help that I HVLP spray paint/lacquer in the shop as well, albeit within a tarpaulin suspended from the ceiling to minimise the spread (and give me an area that I can remove the wood dust from).

I think it is fair to say that woodworking and finishing creates a mess and any home workshop will be messy whilst in use. It's just up to the user how often it gets cleaned.


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## clogs (5 Jan 2022)

made a couple of these for extra mobile storage trolly's...and its the only space with a conc floor.....plus I know where everything is pretty much.....



my nuts n bolts rack....Zinc one side and ST/ST the other...still a bit untidy.....




I norm have a big workshop...the new one will be around 160m2.....
but for now I work under a temp tin lean-too.....not as romantic as T-N's olive tree....
only on a gravel floor....also drives me nuts....thats the reason for the bolt rack.....
I do have a very large stock of diff stuff for when bits get lost but thats only the metric.....
the Unified and Whit/Bsf does need a seperate rack as well....but no time....hahaha...
like u still have to move the junk tho before work begins....
ps. the forklift holds the roof down when it's windy....


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## Lons (5 Jan 2022)

Why do people have a need to pigeonhole others into specific groups, it's rubbish and who cares anyway? I don't give a monkeys personally if other people think I'm OCD or the exact opposite and being retired now so a hobby activity I'm under no pressure to produce and make what I want, when I want and take however much time it takes to produce a satisfactory result.

For the record however as the question has been asked, when I had my business there was always a quick tidy up at the end of every day, the lads knew that and appreciated my reasons and it was always easier to get a clean start first thing rather than a tedious clean before starting. Not many people enjoy cleaning up and for some reason it was always done much quicker before going home than the following morning, I wonder why.  

My workshop is crammed but well organised, it has to be or I'd never find anything and my practices are similar, it gets messy when I'm working, if too messy then a quick sweep of shavings into a pile and put away tools I don't need any more is safer and frees up space then a quick sweep at the end of the day followed by a more thorough one when the project is finished though I sometimes have several on the go.
If I let it pile up especially using the planer or lathe I'd be swamped in no time and I'm lucky enough to have a hell of a lot more space than many others as I have another single garage and a couple of sheds to store other stuff so I really feel for those in cramped 8x6 sheds or a single garage that doubles up for freezers, bikes et al.

Pics were taken following a quick clean and tidy after finishing a cabinet project so in it's usual state of dust everywhere but work surfaces clear, most tools ready to hand to start the next projects.


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## Keith 66 (5 Jan 2022)

I have a workshop that is basically an extended double garage, I have a lot of machines & tools in it & am always trying to keep it tidy, I generally fail, so need to have a muck out at least once a month or sooner if im working in there a lot.
If i didnt try i wouldnt be able to move!


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## TheTiddles (5 Jan 2022)

The dust is a really interesting phenomenon, I have fairly decent extraction, but nothing special (fixed unit with fine filter for machines, mobile vacuum for power tools). I cleared some shelves that haven’t been touched in years last week, there are probably more dusty shelves inside our house. The floor, machines etc all get regularly vacuumed off but that’s it.


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## artie (5 Jan 2022)

Just in from tidying up the workshop, ready for starting production tomorrow.
There hasn't been any paying work done in it since 23rd Dec, but I did some quick odd jobs over the holidays.

Dog proofed two gates, fitted a new gate, fitted a latch, freed up a couple of latches, made a couple of dog leads, adjusted a dog collar, made a large wooden frame, cut some wire mesh, all the while leaving tools and scrap at my derriere.
Took me twenty minutes to clear away all the tools and left overs.

Is it just me, but it seems no matter how simple the job, I have 10 electric and cordless tools in action before it's done.


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## Lefley (5 Jan 2022)

artie said:


> Just in from tidying up the workshop, ready for starting production tomorrow.
> There hasn't been any paying work done in it since 23rd Dec, but I did some quick odd jobs over the holidays.
> 
> Dog proofed two gates, fitted a new gate, fitted a latch, freed up a couple of latches, made a couple of dog leads, adjusted a dog collar, made a large wooden frame, cut some wire mesh, all the while leaving tools and scrap at my derriere.
> ...


And you probably put a tool on your wish list you don’t have also!


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## Jester129 (5 Jan 2022)

Come on gents, don't you remember your mother telling you ALL the time......"Put things back where you find them, it's where they belong!"?    LOL


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## B3nder (5 Jan 2022)

bourbon said:


> 5s or 5c?


5s,Kaizen Hoke Poke and all that good stuff.


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## Doug71 (5 Jan 2022)

I try to keep mine as tidy as possible but when you are busy it is hard. 

Everything has to have it's place, it drives me mad if I have to look for something when it isn't where it should be as it can only be my own fault for not putting it back.

When I see other peoples workshops I'm always amazed how much stuff some have, I keep it quite lean. Why do people need 10 pairs of pliers when they only ever actually use their "favourite" pair? 

One thing that drives me mad is when you see people who keep about 50 rusty drill bits in a tin and spend 10 minutes sifting through them looking for one that is the right size (and sharp), life is too short, just get organised


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## artie (5 Jan 2022)

Doug71 said:


> One thing that drives me mad is when you see people who keep about 50 rusty drill bits in a tin and spend 10 minutes sifting through them looking for one that is the right size (and sharp)


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## Just4Fun (5 Jan 2022)

Jester129 said:


> Come on gents, don't you remember your mother telling you ALL the time......"Put things back where you find them, it's where they belong!"?    LOL


I have a different approach. After use I put things in the place I first looked for them, on the assumption that next time I am likely to start my search in the same place.

Actually that is not true. I would _like_ to put things in the first place I looked for them. I reality I just leave most things lying around somewhere near where I last used them.


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## Sideways (5 Jan 2022)

Doug71 said:


> One thing that drives me mad is when you see people who keep about 50 rusty drill bits in a tin and spend 10 minutes sifting through them looking for one that is the right size (and sharp), life is too short, just get organised


Modern day Bisley filing drawers are paper thin. Value engineered down to nearly nothing and often delivered damaged because they are such thin metal. But as long as you don't expect them to last, those slim drawers are a good size for drills, reamers, taps and files.


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## Doris (5 Jan 2022)

I'm super messy. I only clear the floor between jobs. My dust extractor only gets emptied once a year (more out of forgetfulness rather than laziness). Machines don't get cleaned very often.

I tend to leave things on horizontal surfaces so my bench is always cluttered it only gets cleared when I need to work on it which clutters it up again. 

My house is the same too


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## baldkev (6 Jan 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Ok I've shared mine let's see your messy shed!! View attachment 125913


Looks like that motorboat is coming on nicely.... hull looks shiney, should glide thru the water with a good prop


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## JSW (6 Jan 2022)

Yojevol said:


> I'm sometimes forced into a bench clearance when I've lost something and the only way to find it is to put things away until it appears. It then takes a huge amount of willpower to complete the tidy-up. If I can't find the still hidden object there's always the option of buying a replacement. That usually flushes it out. The other reason to tidy the bench is when I'm down to the last 6sq.ins of clear space.



For me, this sums it up perfectly!


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## sometimewoodworker (6 Jan 2022)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Untidy equates to inefficient or insufficient storage space.


Not in my opinion. 

I do need to make more storage and that is part of the untidy parts of my workshop.

But there is a very significant difference between untidy because tools and items are in use in the current project and so are on convenient horizontal surfaces not in their usual homes, this is unquestionably untidy but not inefficient, in fact always moving tools back to their home storage during a project would be much more inefficient in my workshop, walking 8 metres (the average distance to my power tool storage is 4 metres) many times during a project build would be incredibly inefficient.

I do need to plan the exact kinds of storage to build, where to put it along with finishing fitting a couple of doors to free up some space


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## sometimewoodworker (6 Jan 2022)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Time to build a real workshop with a concrete floor. 200 square metres sounds about right. Lots of bench space, and even more storage.


You would need the lottery money to buy all the storage you would need  I have about 90 square metres but not enough storage space as I need, this thread has given me the impetus to start on building some more storage


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## Lefley (6 Jan 2022)

Doug71 said:


> I try to keep mine as tidy as possible but when you are busy it is hard.
> 
> Everything has to have it's place, it drives me mad if I have to look for something when it isn't where it should be as it can only be my own fault for not putting it back.
> 
> ...



would it be clean if you labelled the can “ 50 rusty drill bits and had a spot for it? “.


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## Morag Jones (6 Jan 2022)

Guilty on the tray of drill bits 
Guilty of having duplicate tools
Guilty of always wanting more and better tools
Guilty of keeping ANY scrap of timber that is remotely pretty
Also guilty of resolving to keep tidier in 2022

In the process of fitting dust extraction, will that shiny pipe work make all the difference?


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## clogs (6 Jan 2022)

sometimewoodworker.....
I work metal and wood.....like u tools all over...thats until I made dedicated wheeled trolley's....like those in a prev post except these just had plain shelves.....
tools from the bench are now put on the shelves.....
I even have one for car work.....what ever the job all the tools so far are on the trolley....
mine are about 1mHx1.5Lx 60cm deep....
then pushed outta the way when needed....but come tomorrow it's all in one place and ready to go......u do need a bit more room generally tho....


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## GregW (6 Jan 2022)

Well, it’s about “what do you need”.
Storage space issues, misuse lack of it…
Mess can be cleared, but pile of tools not make it clear anyway, right?


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## Rustic Mike (6 Jan 2022)

artie said:


> Just in from tidying up the workshop, ready for starting production tomorrow.
> There hasn't been any paying work done in it since 23rd Dec, but I did some quick odd jobs over the holidays.
> 
> Dog proofed two gates, fitted a new gate, fitted a latch, freed up a couple of latches, made a couple of dog leads, adjusted a dog collar, made a large wooden frame, cut some wire mesh, all the while leaving tools and scrap at my derriere.
> ...


No I’m just the same lol


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## voyager (6 Jan 2022)

my shop always seems to be a mess, i spend a day cleaning up every month but within a week its all over the place again, after a day of making man glitter i tend to have all good intentions of cleaning up but look at my watch and go omg just enough time for a cuppa oveltine and bed, then the next day im always shocked by how untidy it is.


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## Louie10 (6 Jan 2022)

It is a discipline keeping your shop tidy but it is great for the mind thus better workmanship, I dont often have my shop this tidy so I figured I would take a few snaps, plenty of improvement needed for sure.


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## D_W (6 Jan 2022)

Jester129 said:


> Come on gents, don't you remember your mother telling you ALL the time......"Put things back where you find them, it's where they belong!"?    LOL



I'd like to challenge someone to that in my shop. First, the challenge to find them (though I'd be able to in most cases), but then to have the fine random memory to actually be able to return them to where they found them.


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## bourbon (6 Jan 2022)

Doug71 said:


> I try to keep mine as tidy as possible but when you are busy it is hard.
> 
> Everything has to have it's place, it drives me mad if I have to look for something when it isn't where it should be as it can only be my own fault for not putting it back.
> 
> ...


Someone asked me why I had 15 pairs of pliers. Each one is designed to hold a different shape, That's why.


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## D_W (6 Jan 2022)

bourbon said:


> Someone asked me why I had 15 pairs of pliers. Each one is designed to hold a different shape, That's why.



I kid you not, I would've answered that I keep half in my basement so I don't have to go to the workshop to get them, and half in the workshop so that I don't have to cross into the basement, and then beyond that I need to have about half of the total amount so that I can have doubles of a couple for the inevitable loss of a pair to the mrs. or kids, or in the longer term, a good pair on hand when someone tries to cut hardened steel in some wacky artificial flowers with a set that's made to cut copper wire.


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## Lons (7 Jan 2022)

I have no intention of counting them but I'd be surprised if I don't have at least 30 pairs of various pliers way more screwdrivers and please don't mention hammers or chisels.


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## Jacob (7 Jan 2022)

Lons said:


> I have no intention of counting them but I'd be surprised if I don't have at least 30 pairs of various pliers way more screwdrivers and please don't mention hammers or chisels.


I think I've kept every screwdriver, spanner, pair of pliers, etc, which has come my way since ar worra lad.
Just survival instinct perhaps. There were hardly any tools in our recently post WW2 house and had to borrow even to take off a bike wheel. We had a few ex grandparents - I recall one massive adjustable spanner, a steel oil can and a ball pein hammer


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## Doug71 (7 Jan 2022)

I only own 2 pairs of normal pliers (not counting long nose), one pair kept in the workshop and one pair kept in the tool bag.

I bought the pliers that are in my tool bag when I started my apprenticeship 34 years ago, they are the only pair I have ever had in my tool bag and they get used most days, I remember thinking they were a bit expensive when I bought them (Elliot Lucas) but think I've had my moneys worth out of them


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## Lons (7 Jan 2022)

The benefit of having loads of duplicates is that I don't think twice about modifying a tool for a specific purpose even if a one off. I've just been gifted a load more which I didn't include in my lot and will keep a few specialist pliers and unusual screwdrivers. The kids are going to have a huge boot sale when I pop me clogs.


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Jan 2022)

There is a Douglas Adams quote that I have used whenever questioned about this sort of thing:
​“I’m training it to like being wherever it’s put.” Arthur prided himselfon saying this. It was, he thought, exactly the sort of thing that wouldentertain and stimulate young minds.​


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## Sideways (7 Jan 2022)

Lons said:


> The benefit of having loads of duplicates is that I don't think twice about modifying a tool for a specific purpose even if a one off. I've just been gifted a load more which I didn't include in my lot and will keep a few specialist pliers and unusual screwdrivers. The kids are going to have a huge boot sale when I pop me clogs.


The two things I have most duplicates of are allen key sets and wire cutters. Somehow on travels for work I kept finding things that needed fixing when I hadn't brought tools. Cue 5 full sets of imp and metric hex keys.
Wire cutters, well you need trad knipex and lobster for ease of use, VDE for safety, heavy duty, compound joint for piano wire, cable shears for the 20mm+ stuff, wire scissors for fun, electronics side cutters, ergonomic types to decide if they really are ...


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## Rustic Mike (8 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> It is a discipline keeping your shop tidy but it is great for the mind thus better workmanship, I dont often have my shop this tidy so I figured I would take a few snaps, plenty of improvement needed for sure.


My god I would be renting it out as a operating theatre, so much room unused on the walls, well done.


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## Mark Karacsonyi (8 Jan 2022)

I was on the verge of teaching woodworking with hand tools prior to the pandemic, as a part time income in the evenings. Sadly my keen students cancelled. It was a great exercise in replanning the workshop. Since then it has never looked so clean and tidy my wife thinks I’m having an affair


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## Sporky McGuffin (8 Jan 2022)

I filled five of the six storage boxes, and it's all neat and findable. Ace. No, really, this is neater. Honest.


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## clogs (8 Jan 2022)

Luie 10
I rather like those metal drawers.....expensive....?


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## Louie10 (8 Jan 2022)

Rustic Mike said:


> My god I would be renting it out as a operating theatre, so much room unused on the walls, well done.


Lots of improvements to be made Mike, I was out today only for an hour or two trying to


Rustic Mike said:


> My god I would be renting it out as a operating theatre, so much room unused on the walls, well done.


Thanks pal, lots of improvements to be made Mike, but blessed to have the space.


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## heimlaga (8 Jan 2022)

I have found that once the oganisation in a workshop drops below a certain level productivity will suffer too. Organisation is the mother of efficiency.
Therefore my workshop is well organized.......... but there are plenty of woodchips and sawdust and shavings on the floor all the time. I cannot afford the time to keep it throughly clean.


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## Chisteve (8 Jan 2022)

I’ve only got a play workshop but I have a thing that I have have a sweep and hoover at the end of the day or couple of hours, if I don’t I always regret it - hate starting the next time in an untidy workspace


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## paulrbarnard (9 Jan 2022)

heimlaga said:


> I have found that once the oganisation in a workshop drops below a certain level productivity will suffer too. Organisation is the mother of efficiency.
> Therefore my workshop is well organized.......... but there are plenty of woodchips and sawdust and shavings on the floor all the time. I cannot afford the time to keep it throughly clean.


When looking at some of the ‘organised’ shops on YouTube you have to wonder at the ratio of organising vs working. There often seems to be massive effort spent on building organisation aids or new versions of benches etc. even some of the well respected YouTubers have posted multiple variations of the same MFT build for example.


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## Hand Plane (9 Jan 2022)

Many years ago, my brother (without prior notice or permission!) tidied up our father's workshop.

Thirty years later he was still complaining he couldn't find anything!


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## Sporky McGuffin (9 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> When looking at some of the ‘organised’ shops on YouTube you have to wonder at the ratio of organising vs working. There often seems to be massive effort spent on building organisation aids or new versions of benches etc. even some of the well respected YouTubers have posted multiple variations of the same MFT build for example.



I think there are people in and around every hobby who enjoy the "edge" bits more than the hobby itself. As a guitarist I actually preferred building pedals and guitars to playing...


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## Lons (9 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> When looking at some of the ‘organised’ shops on YouTube you have to wonder at the ratio of organising vs working. There often seems to be massive effort spent on building organisation aids or new versions of benches etc. even some of the well respected YouTubers have posted multiple variations of the same MFT build for example.


Agreed but some of them can earn a fair bit from the videos so in effect are perhaps doing it for a different reason.


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## heimlaga (9 Jan 2022)

I think the youtubers are pulling the general public's perception askew.

Many of those youtubers pour enormous resurces into gadgets and jigs and organisation aids and workshop furniture and everything is matching and perfect. In a way that no hobbyist can afford. Nothing reused nothing repurposed everything just perfect.
All while the main machines on which productivity and accuracy depends are bog standard hobbyist grade that is neither accurate nor productive.

From the productivity wiewpoint of a part timer a significant part of the time/money spent on gadgets and workshop furniture and such had better been spent on a good planer/thicknesser and a good spindle moulder and a good mortiser and a good bandsaw and a good sliding table saw. The machines that do the brunt of the work and make money.

From a hobbyists point of wiew less time/money should have been spent on gadgets and workshop furniture and on jigs becaure realistically speaking no hobbyist can afford to spend that much.

It becomes some sort of I do not know what.


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## Spindrift (9 Jan 2022)

There is a solution to the untidy workshop. Just send a Whatsapp message to a Tory peer of your choice stating that your space is a "still a bit of a tip", then sit back and wait for the money (and top-notch designer) to roll in. Works for the prime minister, after all.


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## Westwood (9 Jan 2022)

Nice workshop Lons. Looks like a SIP 1332 ten inch in the foreground ? Kitchen drawers or did you make those along the two sides >


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## mikej460 (11 Jan 2022)




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## Lons (12 Jan 2022)

Westwood said:


> Nice workshop Lons. Looks like a SIP 1332 ten inch in the foreground ? Kitchen drawers or did you make those along the two sides >


Yeah it is a Sip which I bought new quite a few years ago and works well for me, I attached a fold down router table to save space.
All the wall cupboards and some floor cupboards are made or adapted but the majority are reclaimed when they were thrown out in the rain by a college, I managed to get only around a third of what was available before they were scrapped which is a crying shame as they are blockboard carcases and solid oak fronted drawers / veneered doors. I sanded some of them but never got the rest done and it is after all just a workshop so not a priority. They were ex laboratory and some of the drawers still had glass bottles, pipettes and Bunsen burners etc. What a waste those responsible should be shot IMO.


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## mikej460 (12 Jan 2022)

I am notoriously untidy, mostly due to a lack of shelf and cupboard space combined with my penchant for not tidying up on a regular basis, so every square inch of machine, bench tops even my thicknesser is covered in tools and various other detritus and I spend far too much of my time searching for stuff. It frustrates the hell out of me. 

I have a 45m2 garage that is soon to be sold ready for my new workshop build this year. The workshop will be reduced to 30m2 so I will have to be better organised. I am currently building, or planning ways to improve the organisation of the new shop; so far I have built a wheeled organiser rack for screws, nuts and bolts, electrical bits etc. and a sanding station for all things sanding. I will be building a french cleat system, wood store, etc etc and I will be dedicating the whole of 2022 to the workshop build and fitting out. I am really looking forward to it.

Here's the organiser cabinet currently stored in our junk room, it replaces dozens of glass jars. I hunted around for deals on the organisers and it now has a full compliment; I just have to label them now .






and this is the sanding station built from an idea on YouTube. It holds my 2 sanders, hand sanders, sanding belts, bench sander discs, ROS sanding discs, drill bobbin sanders and sandpaper sheets.; oh and a very useful and simple ROS sanding disk loader. I'm very pleased with it except two of the ROS sanding disk drawer fronts have the grain going 90 degrees the wrong way so need replacing (I know, I know borderline ocd..) 

It will ultimately go on a french cleat wall but for now it will be joining the organiser cabinet in the junk room as it's getting mould whilst sat in the garage. I'm currently preparing a much drier 10m2 outbuilding as a temporary workshop so it will go in there in a few weeks. My apologies if this doesn't gel with some of you, but I need to move away from my current, dis-organised way of working (and I do enjoy building such stuff ).


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## D_W (12 Jan 2022)

heimlaga said:


> I think the youtubers are pulling the general public's perception askew.
> 
> Many of those youtubers pour enormous resurces into gadgets and jigs and organisation aids and workshop furniture and everything is matching and perfect. In a way that no hobbyist can afford. Nothing reused nothing repurposed everything just perfect.
> All while the main machines on which productivity and accuracy depends are bog standard hobbyist grade that is neither accurate nor productive.
> ...



Most of those folks with gobs of tools either have a relationship with a toolmaker or they're intentionally selling the tools. What we don't know is what they do - what promoted gadgets generate the most revenue. Little safety devices and jigs are a beginner's trap for beginners who are nest building, and I'd imagine they're wildly good for things like amazon pass through links because they're below a "cold buy" price level - something a video viewer won't pause about if they're in a buying mood.

When you look back at older magazines, you get the flavor that they were doing the same thing (an article using something new, and then information on where to buy), but it was more subtle in some ways, and less in others. Credibility from writers was a bigger issue for the magazine because they didn't want a passing-through viewer to look at one article, make a quick buy, etc, they needed subscribers and advertisers and a way to keep the subscribership number high as publishing the magazine itself was actually worth something. 

Not sure what part timers do and with what, but even a good mortiser, moulder, slider, etc, is a stretch for someone starting a business. There are tons of sliders and shapers here (in the US) from small ships who overextended themselves and went out of business. Hobbyists tend to see what a business like that will do and assume that it's needed to be a serious hobbyist (vs. the real root of most of the successful makers that I've come across - either outright need and starting from a low budget, or a burning desire - for the fine workers - to really make something fine).


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## Jameshow (12 Jan 2022)

mikej460 said:


> I am notoriously untidy, mostly due to a lack of shelf and cupboard space combined with my penchant for not tidying up on a regular basis, so every square inch of machine, bench tops even my thicknesser is covered in tools and various other detritus and I spend far too much of my time searching for stuff. It frustrates the hell out of me.
> 
> I have a 45m2 garage that is soon to be sold ready for my new workshop build this year. The workshop will be reduced to 30m2 so I will have to be better organised. I am currently building, or planning ways to improve the organisation of the new shop; so far I have built a wheeled organiser rack for screws, nuts and bolts, electrical bits etc. and a sanding station for all things sanding. I will be building a french cleat system, wood store, etc etc and I will be dedicating the whole of 2022 to the workshop build and fitting out. I am really looking forward to it.
> 
> ...


You cannot tell me your disorganized!!


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## mikej460 (12 Jan 2022)

Jameshow said:


> You cannot tell me your disorganized!!


In transition...


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## mikej460 (12 Jan 2022)

Jameshow said:


> You cannot tell me your disorganized!!


The reality...


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## Roland (13 Jan 2022)

My workshop depends on what the current project is. Currently I’m turning a couple of green logs. There are shavings everywhere. The floor will get hoovered up before the next job, which is re-sawing another set of logs for seasoning. After that I’ll be making a guitar, and the whole place will need a deep clean before, and constant cleaning and tidying during.


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## Doris (15 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> When looking at some of the ‘organised’ shops on YouTube you have to wonder at the ratio of organising vs working. There often seems to be massive effort spent on building organisation aids or new versions of benches etc. even some of the well respected YouTubers have posted multiple variations of the same MFT build for example.



I have noticed a high proportion of these organised workshops seem to be Americans, with double garage size for a workshop. You never see a cramped American workshop on YouTube and a sponsorship soon follows....


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## Jameshow (15 Jan 2022)

Doris said:


> I have noticed a high proportion of these organised workshops seem to be Americans, with double garage size for a workshop. You never see a cramped American workshop on YouTube and a sponsorship soon follows....


I agree I don't think they would sponsor my hovel!!


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## Adam W. (15 Jan 2022)

I don't know about that, have you seen Cindy Drozdas' shop?


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## D_W (15 Jan 2022)

Roland said:


> My workshop depends on what the current project is. Currently I’m turning a couple of green logs. There are shavings everywhere. The floor will get hoovered up before the next job, which is re-sawing another set of logs for seasoning. After that I’ll be making a guitar, and the whole place will need a deep clean before, and constant cleaning and tidying during.





http://www.cybozone.com/fg/images/wilson12.gif





http://www.cybozone.com/fg/images/wilson8.gif




http://www.cybozone.com/fg/images/wilson10.gif



For the folks talking about small spaces - I realize you could be in smaller spaces, but this is the shop space of someone is probably as good of a maker as anyone alive. 

The second two pictures are of a lute that he had to make on the job, totally by hand. None of it is painting or surface effects, it's inlay and the white stuff is ivory (the inlay on the back is wood). 

I know the size of george's workshop it's two floors and large (his wife for a while was a professional jeweler with employees on a second level. I said something to him about wanting to work in a smaller area so that I didn't have to move around a lot and having open space behind me (making tools has kind of eliminated that as my space is big enough for woodworking or toolmaking with open space, but not both plus open space). 

He chose to do most of his work in a relatively small area. 

The biggest and most well appointed spaces I've seen around here are hobbyist shops where the hobbyist is a surgeon or a business owner or something and a shop pops up wide open looking like an electronics factory full of martin equipment. 

But it's also true that I don't know many one man shops that really have much professional work going on in them - most of the guys who tried that are doing site work (trim, contracting, installing kitchens, etc).


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