# Pen mandrel problem



## Peggy (23 Jan 2013)

I have a mini lathe and use a universal pen mandrel, my problem is the mandrel keeps getting stuck in the lathe, I don't think it's my fault, I oil the mandrel so it shouldn't get stuck but after making a couple of pens I absolutely can't get the mandrel off the lathe. My husband had to wrench it out the last time and now the mandrel is bent.

I have to get a new mandrel but don't want to get the same type again. Im wondering if the delux pen mandrel from Axminster would be a good bet? I wonder is it universal and would it fit in a mini lathe. And I wish I knew why the mandrel keeps getting stuck! Does this happen to anyone else?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Peggy


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## Ian down london way (23 Jan 2013)

Presumably there is no means of inserting a metal rod to tap it out from 'behind'? My full size lath has that, which is the only way I can get it out. A long rod and a heavy whack with a hammer.

Given the mandrells are supported at other end, maybe you can put a thin strip of paper around the metal cone, that may avoid the adhesion. However, I've never tried it.


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## Peggy (23 Jan 2013)

I tried inserting a metal rod and whacking it with a hammer but all that happened was the rod got jammed in the mandrel! The mandrel has a hole in it so you can adjust the length of the rod mandrel. So then I had two stuck rods either side of the lathe! It took ages to get them out again.

I wonder if the paper would work, I might try that thank you.


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## nev (23 Jan 2013)

hi peggy
you need a spindle thread protector. Basically a big nut that fits on the threaded bit of the spindle _before_ you put the mandrel in. then when you want to remove the mandrel (or any other MT fitting) you unscrew the protector that then pushes the mandrel out of the taper.

here is a random pic of one , something like you need but not identical...







Obviously it needs to be the *correct thread and size for your lathe*. Which lathe do you have? they are usually listed under lathe accessories, so see the manufactures web. 

for example heres an axminster one http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod23520/


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## Spindle (23 Jan 2013)

Hi Peggy

You need a centre ejector - it's like a collar that you fit to the spindle thread before you insert the centre, when you want to remove the centre you unscrew the ejector and it pushes out the centre. They are often described as thread protectors but check that it's actually an ejector before you buy.

This is a Record Power Centre Ejector:






This is it installed with a mandrel:






Regards Mick


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## stevenw1963 (23 Jan 2013)

Thats what I was just going to suggest , u beat me to it Nev


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## CHJ (23 Jan 2013)

Peggy: you say you have a min lathe and mandrel.

Although the recommendations to get an ejector collar for the mandrel are probably the way to go can we establish exactly what you have.

Lathe Model.
Mandrel Model.

Is the assumption that the mandrel and lathe have a Morse taper fitting , No.1 or No.2 ? correct. (some mini lathes have proprietary spindle fittings)

Pictures will help if you don't have model nos.


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## loz (23 Jan 2013)

thread protector gets in the way of my mandrel, rotor in a cl3. 

Peggy - often there is a flat on the mandrel head/taper part that you can attach a spanner to, and a spanner in the head stock on the shaft, and move both in opposite directions,

is the lathe new ? - is the taper hole clean ? unworn ? you should have no problems, 

Make sure you don't bring up the tail so tight when you turn, its only support, not a thrust bearing.


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## Spindle (23 Jan 2013)

Hi Loz

My photo shows the Record Power ejector fitted to a CL3

Regards Mick


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## loz (23 Jan 2013)

Spindle":3of1sbza said:


> Hi Loz
> 
> My photo shows the Record Power ejector fitted to a CL3
> 
> Regards Mick



yep - a case were the combination works - ......

I said "thread protector gets in the way of *my mandrel, rotor in a cl3.* "

Thus use the thread protector is not the fit all answer.


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## stevenw1963 (23 Jan 2013)

> thread protector gets in the way of my mandrel, rotor in a cl3.



Mine is the same CL3 & rotor & I don't have any problem with it.


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## Peggy (23 Jan 2013)

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

The lathe is a Draper Mini Wood Lathe. I'll post the pen mandrel details later as life is getting in the way as usual. There isn't anything to attach a spanner to. Its clean and the attachment is tapered. The center ejector looks good, if I can find one to suit my lathe. There's no woodturning shops nearby so i'd have to order online.

Peggy


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## loz (23 Jan 2013)

stevenw1963":ybnl6zfj said:


> > thread protector gets in the way of my mandrel, rotor in a cl3.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine is the same CL3 & rotor & I don't have any problem with it.



perhaps differing models rotor ?, and quite an old CL3,

i find i don't get seated correctly with the thread protector, and have some play.


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## Spindle (23 Jan 2013)

Hi Peggy

Your lathe has a 3/4" x 16 TPI spindle thread - this is the same as a Record CL3 so I would suggest you buy the Record Ejector

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/search/q/ejector

Regards Mick


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## woodyturner (23 Jan 2013)

Hi Peggy if this is your lathe you have a 3/4" x 16 tpi thread and a No1 Mt so if Rob can get hold of a 3/4" x 16 tpi nut you will be sorted Good luck and happy turning and I must say I am impressed with the photos of you pens you will soon be putting us all to shame LOL


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## stevenw1963 (23 Jan 2013)

Could be, my CL3 is only a yr & half old.

Mine sits quite snug with no play at all (Maybe Record got something right for a change lol)


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## Peggy (23 Jan 2013)

Yes Woody, that's my lathe. Thanks so much everyone, I will get that spindle thread, it will be such a relief not to have the pen mandrel getting stuck all the time. 

Thank you Woody, I will post a few pen pictures here eventually! lol


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## chipmunk (24 Jan 2013)

Hi Peggy,
If you can't find a nut then you could make your own thread saver/ejector from either steel, aluminium, boxwood or nylon using a UNF tap....

http://www.tracytools.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=1_9&product_id=285

These are carbon steel and so come pretty cheap (a second tap will suffice if you keep it straight). Tracy Tools are good to deal with. 
The tapping drill will be 11/16" (i.e. 3/4" - 1/16") - may be a good idea to buy one of these too unless you have one.

HTH
Jon


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## Peggy (24 Jan 2013)

Thank you Jon, I need a cheaper option. 

I was going to buy the nut on the link provided by Spindle, but then I noticed that postage for Ireland is £24.99!!! For one nut?!! How much does this nut weigh I wonder, it couldn't be much...not £25 worth surely!! I might get it posted to a relative in UK who can then forward it, I'm sure it wouldn't cost them £25.

Making one looks like a good idea too.

Peggy


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## loz (24 Jan 2013)

HI Peggy,

just buy a 3/4" x 16 tpi nut as woodyturner said, from b and q or woodies or homebase, and get a washer welded to the front face large enough for your taper to pass into, ......

cheap as chips


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## Peggy (24 Jan 2013)

Oh, thank you Loz, then thats what I'll do. I thought it had to be a special nut for lathes.

I'm still wondering how they can justify charging £25 postage for one nut!


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## loz (24 Jan 2013)

If you know a mechanic, then old ford oil filters also have the correct thread for your lathe, ( have the filter bit cut off ) 

- they make great cheap small faceplates, im sure one could adapt the thread part for a thread protector.


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## chipmunk (24 Jan 2013)

Nice theory Loz but I can assure you that you'll not find anything other than metric coarse nuts and bolts up to about M12 in the DIY chains here - Definately nothing as big as 19mm (3/4") diameter and no 3/4" UNF nuts.

It might be possible to track down a nut of the right size but I don't think it'll be easy.

A cheapish solution would be to buy a 2" T01 faceplate from Axminster for £10.50

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-faceplate-50mm-prod22085/
Jon


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## Spindle (24 Jan 2013)

Hi Peggy

I think you'll need to go to a more specialised supplier than B&Q etc. - nowadays they only sell metric threads, (at least in my area).

Try here:

http://www.namrick.co.uk/acatalog/U.N.F._Nuts.html

You need a 3/4 UNF nut, three up from the bottom

Regards Mick


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## loz (24 Jan 2013)

Peggy,

call these guys

http://www.hassetts.ie/


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## loz (24 Jan 2013)

Or these 

http://www.perenco.ie/

or these

http://www.tucksfasteners.ie/


All in Ireland Peggy


Also might be worth calling Stanley here http://indigo.ie/~whraitt/ - he just might have the odd thread protector lying around, as he sells lathes, tell him Laurence sent you


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## Peggy (24 Jan 2013)

Thanks so much everyone, Loz I will try those links, thank you. I really miss making pens, I can't wait to get it sorted out!

Peggy


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## Ian down london way (24 Jan 2013)

If you get no joy, I have a friend here (at work) who has pretty much any nut (he seems to collect and maintainer electronic test equipment as a hobby - humm), and I'm sure he will part with one and I can pop it in the post.

Send a message direct to me if you want to go down that path.

Mind you, I still like hitting things with hammers. 
Its fun !


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## Robbo3 (24 Jan 2013)

Something that no-one seems to have picked up on, is that morse taper fittings shouldn't be oiled as they work by friction.
I agree that a thread protector is probably the best way to go but it does depend on the fittings. I have one that won't seat because it hits the thread protector before it's fully home. Welding a thick washer on the front of a nut could put you in the same situation.
My thread protector needs approx 3mm removing from the back end to allow it to screw on further.

Another solution, possibly cheaper, could be a piece of pipe, small enough to go through the headstock but large enough to hit on the back end of the mandrel. The bore of the pipe would then clear the mandrel rod which is projecting out of the back.

Any engineer would probably make you one from solid round bar if you gave them the sizes.

HTH


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## woodyturner (24 Jan 2013)

why would you weld the washer on just let it lay in-between the nut and the flange on the mandrel it will never come of till you remove the mandrel any ol penny washer and open up the hole so it is a tight fit over the fat end of the M/T of the mandrel sand the edges to remove any sharp edges on the washer simple job done


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## Robbo3 (24 Jan 2013)

woodyturner":3mccrng2 said:


> why would you weld the washer on just let it lay in-between the nut and the flange on the mandrel it will never come of till you remove the mandrel any old penny washer and open up the hole so it is a tight fit over the fat end of the M/T of the mandrel sand the edges to remove any sharp edges on the washer simple job done


Doh! Should have thought of that myself.


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## Jonzjob (25 Jan 2013)

I have no idea as to what Record charge for postage, but their thread protector would be the way I'd go.

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/34 ... -protector

I have a CL1, which also has the 3/4 16 thread and with my Axminster delux mandril I have no problems at all. Everything fits well. Mine CL1 is about 16 years old, so the other end of the age scale. Record call it a thread protector and that's good enough for me :mrgreen: 

I agree whith the oil not being used. If anything it will make it a hell of a lot harder to shift any morse taper tool you put in there. Dry and clean is all you should have.


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## Peggy (25 Jan 2013)

Thanks so much everyone, 

Hmmm, I'll have to consider my options. So the oil made it worse...mind you it was jamming before I used the oil. I'm going to try and get a nut locally first. 

Peggy


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## Jonzjob (25 Jan 2013)

Loads of em on here Peggy :roll: :roll:


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2013)

Peggy, is there enough of a gap between spindle nose and mandrel collar big enough to let you get an Oak or harwood splitter similar to this to break it free until such times as you can get a suitable nut.


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## Peggy (25 Jan 2013)

I don't think I could do that. The mandrel's stuck fast in my lathe at the moment. As well as that the spindle is bent so Ive got to buy another mandrel, well just the spindle really and tackle the task of removing the mandrel...and get the nut, before I can resume pen making!

Peggy


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2013)

Can you file two flats on the mandrel collar and get a spanner on it to twist to help beak the sticktion.


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## Jonzjob (25 Jan 2013)

Another possibility would be to get a spanner big enough to fit over the shaft but smaller than the mandrel, hold the spanner with a thick cloth ot glove and belt it, close to the shaft as you can. Even to pad the space between the spanner and the headstock with some hardwood or metal and knock the spanner handle towards the headstock to try to drive the mandrel out?

When, not if, you get this basket (or a word similar to that) out the first job is to clean ALL of the oil out. Thinners of some kind, but get it as clean as the proverbial babys bum. That way you won't get so bad problems. The oil is doing the job of a very good gripper at the moment it would seem..

Good luck lass!


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## Paul Hannaby (25 Jan 2013)

The universal mandrel has a hole all the way through the morse taper adapter to allow the shaft to be adjusted for length. All you need to do to prevent the knock out bar from getting stuck in the hole is to loosen the lock screw, retract the mandrel shaft as far as you can and tighten again. Then use the knock out bar to remove the whole thing. Now the mandrel shaft will be stopping the knock out bar from entering the hole in the mandrel adaptor.
I used to do exactly this to get my pen mandrel out from the morse taper.


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## Jonzjob (25 Jan 2013)

Doing it that way means that every time you do another type of job you have to reset the mandril? Each to his own :mrgreen:


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## Peggy (25 Jan 2013)

John, I just read out your post to my husband, Rob who has volunteered to take on the task of removing the mandrel and he says he tried that the last time and it did work. But the next time I put the mandrel in was when I used to oil so I'd guess its going to be an even tougher job to remove it. Yes I'd better give it a good clean, I wish I'd known that oil would make the situation worse!

CHJ, Rob says he's going to try your idea next!

Thank you Paul, I'll try anything to stop this happening again. 

Thank you all, your help is much appreciated.

Peggy


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## shaver01 (26 Jan 2013)

Has always been the problem with 1mt fittings that are bored through. Although it can also happen to 2mt, but not as easily as they have larger shoulders to butt the knock-out bar against.

My answer was to get a piece of mild steel bar that just fits into the back of the lathe spindle, but not into the MT fitting. I held the bar in my chuck, then used a scraper to turn down about 5mm of one end until it just fitted into the bored centre of the 1mt fitting. Taper the end slightly, then in future when knocking out put the bar in and the shoulder will pop the fitting out.


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## Peggy (26 Jan 2013)

That sounds like a good idea too. Thank you. 

We are going to remove the mandrel this afternoon....hopefully!


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## loz (4 Feb 2013)

Peggy,

At the weekend i found a spare thread protector in my box of lathe spares, it from my old DML and will thus fit your lathe, I can post it to you - if you havn't bought one already

Regs
Loz


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## Peggy (8 Feb 2013)

Oh, yes please Loz, that would be brilliant. I haven't bought one yet. I will pm you my address. Thank you!


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## loz (8 Feb 2013)

I'll pop it in the post Peggy !


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## Peggy (8 Feb 2013)

Brilliant. Thank you!


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