# Danish oil on worktops - it's wearing off after a week or so



## FrenchIan (7 Aug 2008)

I bought two worktops laminated from strips of oak. Nicely made - 38mm thick, very smooth finish. Sanded them first, finishiing with 180 grit, then treated top and bottom with two coats of danish oil. (Blackfriar, from SF). Rubbed it in well with a cloth, left for 20 mins, then wiped off the excess - there wasn't much.

Next stage was two more coats of danish oil on the top surface. Applied the same way, but lightly ruubed down after each coat with very fine webrax (1500 grit?). It looked lovely.

However, it's not wearing well. After only two weeks, the grain has raised in places where eg a wet cloth was left, and the original sheen is wearing off. I also suspect there might be water marks appearing.

What did I do wrong? And, more to the point, what can I do to retrieve the situation? Or, at least, stop it getting any worse? (I have assured SWMBO that an oil finish like this is the equal of varnish - if I'm proved to be wrong, I'll never hear the end of it....)

Thanks


----------



## tim (7 Aug 2008)

Oddly, I've had this happen to me on my kitchen beech worktop recently. I realised that part of the problem was not letting each coat go off enough ie I was applying coats when it was dry but clearly hadn't cured enough. I assume that when I applied the next coat it was chemically becoming part of the same first coat and not adding another layer. I could well be wrong but after I did let the coats cure overnight the problem was resolved.

How old was the danish oil? It can sometimes degrade in the tin over time esp if it has been opened and while it still flows and acts as expected, its durability is affected.

Hope that helps

Tim


----------



## jasonB (7 Aug 2008)

I find applying with a cloth does not put enough oil on, I tend to use a bit of foam rubber but you can also us ethe foam brushes - does the same thing.

You also need more coats, the saying goes once an hour for a day, once a day for a week, once a week for a month, then top up as required.

I've not tried the Blackfriers one, always use Rustins, and as has been said don't use old oil as the solids sink to the bottom and form a gell so all you are applying is the solvent :!: 

Jason


----------



## Sgian Dubh (7 Aug 2008)

FrenchIan":3suiyn3u said:


> ... it's not wearing well. After only two weeks, the grain has raised in places where eg a wet cloth was left, and the original sheen is wearing off. I also suspect there might be water marks appearing.
> 
> ... more to the point, what can I do to retrieve the situation? Thanks



Danish oil in most manufacturers formulations is essentially a weak varnish. It's heavy on white spirits; there's some oil -- usually either boiled linseed oil or tung oil; the rest is a resin of some sort, eg, a soya or alkyd resin. There may be other things too such as heavy metal driers to aid drying and curing.

You need many coats to effect a good water resistant barrier, perhaps ten being a minimum. After all, you flood it on, let the first coat penetrate to get that 'in the wood' look, and then wipe it off. After a couple of coats you've effectively sealed the wood -- the resin takes care of that. Subsequent coats lie over the earlier coats. But each application is by rag and you wipe off most of the liquid anyway. Typically one application by brush of a regular varnish at full strength is equivalent to about five wiped on coats of the same varnish thinned out with white spirits or similar to make wiping manageable.

To rescue the situation you need a tough water and chemical resistant film forming finish. Luckily, all you need to do is abrade the surface to provide a key and apply a short oil based varnish. You may need to repair any existing damage. Short oil varnishes main constituents are white spirits, an oil, eg, linseed oil and a resin, usually polyurethane in Europe.

Brush on two or three coats of an oil based interior varnish labelled as suitable for cabinetry or for internal use -- all these types of varnish are tough, relatively hard (or brittle if you like) short oil varnishes. Don't use yacht or spar varnish as these are soft long oil varnishes designed for flexibility in exterior locations where wood experiences extremes of heat, cold and exposure to large ranges of relative humidity. Slainte.


----------



## FrenchIan (7 Aug 2008)

Guys, thanks for the advice.

You've confirmed what I feared, that I've erred. I thought that four coats of oil would do (10+? Wow!) and that rubbing it in well with a rag was helping it! I guess the only thing I did right was to use new, well-shaken oil, and leave it overnight.

Whatever, I'll do as you suggest, Sgian Dubh, and replace it with varnish. We have different products here in France, so if I look for a good quality internal PU varnish, I should be OK? Some of the Liberon range is available - are there any of their products you'd recommend?

Thanks


----------



## Sgian Dubh (7 Aug 2008)

FrenchIan":3jt63tdd said:


> We have different products here in France, so if I look for a good quality internal PU varnish, I should be OK? Some of the Liberon range is available - are there any of their products you'd recommend? Thanks



I'm not really familiar with the Liberon range, but if you find a good quality internal Polyuerthane varnish you'll be fine. Just make sure when you buy that the clean requires white spirits, not water. That way you'll know for sure you're buying oil based varnish, not water based. Slainte.


----------



## Paul Chapman (7 Aug 2008)

Ian,

I've used Liberon Hardwood Varnish (also called Antique Varnish) on various things I've made for use in the workshop and which are subject to getting oil on them, and it's stood up very well. It's very nice stuff to use - quite runny like the old Furniglas PU15 varnish which used to be my favourite but sadly no longer available. Based on my experience, I would recommend the Liberon stuff.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## DaveL (8 Aug 2008)

Paul Chapman":wfyhtskn said:


> quite runny like the old Furniglas PU15 varnish which used to be my favourite but sadly no longer available.


Now that brings back memories, I made wooden panniers for the first motor bike that I solely owned, an old Honda CD175. Lots of 3/8" WBP ply, 3/4" softwood batten and loads of 3/4" brassed screws, all finished with PU15.
They outlasted the bike, I think my old air tools are in the top box at the back of the shop, but the bike went to the bike breakers a long time ago.

It used to look like a Galleon from the back.


----------



## FrenchIan (8 Aug 2008)

Paul Chapman":2cj7wpkj said:


> Ian,
> 
> I've used Liberon Hardwood Varnish (also called Antique Varnish) on various things I've made for use in the workshop and which are subject to getting oil on them, and it's stood up very well. It's very nice stuff to use - quite runny like the old Furniglas PU15 varnish which used to be my favourite but sadly no longer available. Based on my experience, I would recommend the Liberon stuff.
> 
> ...



Paul, thanks for the recommendation.

I'm off to buy some varnish tomorrow. If it's to be Liberon, it'll be a toss up between "Vernis Antiquaire" (which sounds like it's your Antique Varnish) and "Vernis Bistrot" which protects against water and scratches for heavily used furniture - recommended for kitchens, etc.

Or the local brand, V33, if Liberon isn't available.

Thanks, everybody, for the guidance


----------



## FrenchIan (29 Aug 2008)

FrenchIan":rushm22h said:


> Paul Chapman":rushm22h said:
> 
> 
> > Ian,
> ...



Well, after all your advice, I ended up using water-based varnish, from V33. The reason was, it's specifically for kitchen worktops, and can withstand high temperature (90 degrees, they say).

Dry enough to recoat after three hours, I gave it four coats, with light sanding between. It hasn't built up as well as I would expect a spirit-based one to do, but it's given a nice finish. So far (only a week, I admit), it seems to be OK. Time will tell, but I guess it'll be easy enough to sand and re-coat if needs be.

Thanks again for the advice and encouragement.


----------



## Derek Willis. (3 Sep 2008)

The finest finish to use on table tops and kitchen worktops in Rustins Plastic Coating. 
Rustins state that three coats make the surface impregnable, I have been using it for a while now an find this to be so, it leaves a soft sheen is easy to apply, especially if you dilute it a little, dries in a very short time if used at a fairly high temperature. 
Try it!!! 
Derek, (new member)


----------



## FrenchIan (3 Sep 2008)

Derek Willis.":3norvfsn said:


> The finest finish to use on table tops and kitchen worktops in Rustins Plastic Coating.
> Rustins state that three coats make the surface impregnable, I have been using it for a while now an find this to be so, it leaves a soft sheen is easy to apply, especially if you dilute it a little, dries in a very short time if used at a fairly high temperature.
> Try it!!!
> Derek, (new member)



Thanks, Derek.

If the V33 proves less durable than I'd like, then Rustins will be the next choice. Or something similar, it it's available here in France.


----------



## Derek Willis. (3 Sep 2008)

All Rustins products are available to purchase via their website. 
Derek.


----------



## MikeG. (3 Sep 2008)

Derek is right, Rustins Plastic Coating will produce a very good and hardy finish, and would be my first choice for a new worktop. However, if you have already used Danish Oil you may have a problem, as Rustins say that their product shouldn't be used over anyone else's product. 

At the very least you would have to thoroughly sand/ scrape the entire top, then probably seal it with Rustins MDF Sealer, before using the RPC. I would consult Rustins......

Mike


----------



## miles_hot (14 Sep 2008)

we had a similar thing with a no name hardwax oil on new beach surfaces - they were getting ruined only a few months after applying 4 coats. We had to do some pretty thorough sanding and scrapping to get rid of the damage. We then applied some "treatex" natural stuff with a roller (sanding with 400 wet and dry used wet) and after 3 coats and 6 -9 months of rough life (kitchen surfaces, standing water, wine etc) they are still lovely to the touch and beading like they're new.

Hope this helps

Miles


----------



## Londoner100 (16 Sep 2008)

I am building a kids table and chairs for a friend and coated it in danish oil, after leaving it for a couple of weeks I over coated it with Rustins plastic coating. Apart from the initial smell it has gone on a treat and I have not has a problem. It might be worth trying an offcut (as I did first) and see if you get any reaction with your brand of oil.

Ian


----------



## Derek Willis. (21 Sep 2008)

I don't know how long that finish will last, because Rustin's state quite catagorically that their finish must go on bare wood and not over any other finish, see thier site.
Derek.


----------



## Londoner100 (21 Sep 2008)

Derek I was a little worried at first but it has been a month now and all is fine. I went by Rustins data sheet which said: _The coating may be used over Rustin’s Woodstopping, Wood Dye or Floor Dye and wood
may be bleached before coating, with Rustin’s Wood Bleach.
Important. *If any other products are used, such as timber treatments or other brands of dye,*
stain or paints, these must be tested first for compatibility._ Hopefully all will be ok as I have a good colour and a lovely sheen as well. 

all the best Ian


----------



## Derek Willis. (21 Sep 2008)

I hope it does stand up to time, it will be encouraging for myself and others to know this, keep us posted.
derek.


----------



## Triggaaar (11 Dec 2009)

I'm just bumping this old thread as I'm about to oil a new worktop. I've just been on the Rustins website to check out this plastic coating, which is currently described as a burnishing cream. The site doesn't mention using it for worktops, but does have a separate Worktop Oil product. Is the current plastic coating still the same one and better than the worktop oil they sell?

Thanks[/url]


----------



## gidon (12 Dec 2009)

Don't know about Worktop oil - but here is the Plastic Coating referred to in this thread:
http://www.rustins.eu/Details.asp?ProductID=857
Cheers
Gidon


----------



## FrenchIan (22 Apr 2010)

Just a quick update.

After almost two years use, the V33 water-based varnish is holding up well. There is damage where SWMBO put a hot pan down, but it's not getting worse and the surface is still sealed. Also a couple of small areas where the finish is wearing slightly (but slowly) - I suspect these were caused the same way.....

Once I'm happy that SWMBO has lost the hot pan habit, I'll sand down and give it another couple of coats - that then should last for several years.

Cheers


----------



## Boatfixer (22 Apr 2010)

I got fed up with the oil treatment on our worktops 7 years ago so sanded them back and used Ronseal hard floor varnish which is water based. So far they have stood up well to the abuse they get and I haven't had to re-treat them at all.


----------



## ChrisS (28 Nov 2010)

Guys, new to this blogging technology, but I'm fed up with oiling a new Ask kitchen drainer already - and it's only been installed 6 months! However carefully I sand down and apply many coats of oil, it still gets marked very easily.

The advice appears to be forget oils (Danish, Rustin's Worktop, or whatever) and go for varnish, so long as it is good quality and put on carefully. Is that a good summation?


----------

