# Tormek 2000 problem



## OldWood (30 Nov 2013)

I hadn't used the grinder for 3 to 4 months and it was definitely struggling to turn when I switched it on the other day. 

Quick analysis was that there was some sort of stiffness in the shaft bearings and they got a squirt of silicon lubricant, which gave an immediate freedom. However when I came to sharpen a tool it was clear that the drive from the motor wasn't connecting through with any torque - the moment I applied any sharpening pressure to the gouge, the wheel immediately slowed down.

Taking the buffing wheel off, I see that the drive is straight off the motor shaft onto a sleeved drive wheel. Does the friction sleeve deteriorate ? If the main shaft bearings have been tight for a while, then the motor shaft will have been polishing this sleeve for some time, and being an older machine then the sleeve material may have lost its elasticity.

Any comments please - thanks

Rob


----------



## Lons (30 Nov 2013)

Hi Rob 
Has the shaft rusted onto the bearings? Before I bought my T7, I think I read somewhere they were upgrading to a stainless steel shaft presumably for the reason.

Bob


----------



## Spindle (30 Nov 2013)

Hi

I've had the same problem.

I think you'll find the shaft has corroded in the nylon bearings due to water wicking through the wheel.

It is easy enough to dis-assemble the wheels from the shaft and clean off the corrosion - I re-assembled it using silicon grease and the problem hasn't re-occurred. You can get an upgraded stainless shaft but at £50 odd I'll keep greasing mine.

Regards Mick

Edited to say - rather than upset the alignment of the grinding wheel, I dis-assembled the honing wheel end of the shaft and removed the shaft / wheel as an assembly.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (30 Nov 2013)

Hi Rob...I have a T7. The friction wheel does occasionally deteriorate if not used. All you need to do is take some 240 grit paper and give it a careful all over abrade that will kick up its friction capability so the drive doesn't slip. Your bearings problem is really rare. Ive been a member of the Tormek forum for a long time now and Ive never seen that problem come up.

One of the really nice things about a Tormek is that its simple. The motor is a real professional stalwart. If anything does prove to be perished you can order every single part that sits outside the motor to get it going again. Its basically indestructible with a bit of tlc.

HTH

Bob


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (30 Nov 2013)

The older non stainless shafts can rust but only if you leave the water trough in place after a session. You need to take it off the machine after each use or as spindle says the wheel will soak up (a surprisingly large volume) of water which will drip drip drip onto the shaft.

New ones have a stainless shaft to stop this but if you just detach the water trough after use you should avoid this


----------



## OldWood (1 Dec 2013)

Thanks guys

I've always tried to remember to remove the water bath, not because of the potential problem that has been highlighted here, but because the first time I forgot, the water went rusty and stained the stone. Fortunately that did no more than alarm me, and soon enough the stain disappeared, but add that to the potential shaft problem and I will make greater effort to be diligent on the bath removal. 

Thanks for the guidance on the sandpaper, Random Bob; that's probably all that is required.

Again thanks

Rob


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (1 Dec 2013)

no worries


----------



## joethedrummer (1 Dec 2013)

OldWood":3trrlzqn said:


> Thanks guys
> 
> I've always tried to remember to remove the water bath, not because of the potential problem that has been highlighted here, but because the first time I forgot, the water went rusty and stained the stone. Fortunately that did no more than alarm me, and soon enough the stain disappeared, but add that to the potential shaft problem and I will make greater effort to be diligent on the bath removal.
> 
> ...


Just chucking in my two penn"orth, (not sure how the trough works on a Tormek ),,be careful allowing a wheel to remain in the water too long because the coolant "wicks" into the bottom of the wheel and can cause an imbalance on restarting.
Had a wheel explode due to this (OK ,it was a wheel 24in dia; by 6in wide.)


----------



## Finial (1 Dec 2013)

The Tormek turns very slowly so the wheel is never going to explode. If you find the water a nuisance you can run it dry with little difference to the result. Tools keep cool because of the slow speed. The water does carry away the grinding dust though. 

The friction drive is poor design in my opinion. It's necessary to sand the wheel from time to time to keep it going and it's a bit awkward to do because of the small gap you have to reach into.


----------



## Lons (1 Dec 2013)

> The friction drive is poor design in my opinion. It's necessary to sand the wheel from time to time to keep it going and it's a bit awkward to do because of the small gap you have to reach into.



I haven't encountered this yet on my T7 but just a thought, would it be possible to enhance the grip by using locktite or similar? Or maybe there's another product which will provide a temporary bond whilst still being easy to break if it was necessary to dismantle the shaft.

Bob


----------



## Finial (1 Dec 2013)

I was talking about the friction drive between the motor spindle and the rubber surface under the honing wheel. The spindle just rests on the wheel. It starts to slip and the wheel will then slow down with any pressure from the tool being sharpened. Roughing up the rubber surface with sandpaper fixes it but only for a while. I did think of trying belt grip spray but thought it might be hard to get off if it didn't work.

Terry


----------



## Lons (1 Dec 2013)

Finial":31ptd4ud said:


> I was talking about the friction drive between the motor spindle and the rubber surface under the honing wheel. The spindle just rests on the wheel. It starts to slip and the wheel will then slow down with any pressure from the tool being sharpened. Roughing up the rubber surface with sandpaper fixes it but only for a while. I did think of trying belt grip spray but thought it might be hard to get off if it didn't work.
> 
> Terry



That'll teach me to look at the machine before opening my mouth #-o


----------



## OldWood (2 Dec 2013)

Hi Terry - having done the sand-paper treatment, the machine has been given a new lease of life, and doesn't slow at all. I suspect that this touch of TLC was need from the beginning when I got the machine 2nd hand.

Now I am puzzled as to why you are complaining about the 'small gap to reach into' - the honing wheel comes off ever so easily and gives immediate access to the whole surface of the drive wheel, including being able to tighten up it's clamping nut which was loose on my machine. It also allows a clean-up of the motor drive shaft.

I don't know what the time span in between the sand paper treatment is, but from an engineering point of view the system is elegant in its simplicity of creating a huge step-down ratio without an expensive, and potentially troublesome gearbox. 

Rob


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (2 Dec 2013)

I suspect there is a little confusion going on here. What you've experienced Rob is what 99% of Tormek owners come across namely part of the Tormek's indestructibility is its simplicity. Its childs play to dismantle and maintain any part of it. As I mentioned at the start of this thread Ive been a member of the Tormek forum for a long time and have seen hundreds of posts from 2000 and T7 users on these and many other issues. That sanding technique will last absolutely ages. If you get any other problems, you can easily get access to the shaft and clean that too.

But the golden rule is you always detach the trough after use to avoid the wheel wicking up the water and then bathing the important parts.

On another note...the consensus of the Tormek R&D team is you should never run the wheel dry. Reason is the swarf from the grind and the ceramic embeds in the wheel and causes it to glaze quickly, stopping it cutting and causing you to have to dress it more often, shortening its life.

Hope that helps. Im glad you're breathing new life into your Tormek, I find it a really useful tool. I have a separate dry grinder for fast metal removal and the Tormek for sharpening. I've installed the Tormek separate jig bar on my dry grinder so I can re-use my investment in the existing Tormek jigs, which for bowl gouges.....fantastic.


----------



## paulm (2 Dec 2013)

I got bored with messing about with water and the slow speed of my tormek 2000, as well as the grooves my woodturning gouges made in the wheel, so got a Sorby Pro-Edge to try and discovered I didn't have any need after that for the tormek and sold it on, as I hadn't used it at all for six months after I got the Pro-Edge.

With a local source for replacement belts much cheaper than the Sorby ones, it's a fast, effective and very versatile machine. A few seconds to change a belt and you can go from 40 grit ceramic belt for hogging off lots of metal very quickly to 400 grit zirconium belts or 2000 grit equivalent trizac belts or anything inbetween. 

The stable and accurate grinding table with lots of pre-set angles, and the tormek style round bar rest that takes the same gouge jigs as the tormek, as well as the range of belts available, means I can do everything I need to for general grinder work, woodturning tools, planes and chisels etc (hand honing the final bevels on plane irons and chisels).

Just saying  

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (2 Dec 2013)

I know Paul. It's me that buys all your cast-offs


----------



## Finial (2 Dec 2013)

_Now I am puzzled as to why you are complaining about the 'small gap to reach into' - the honing wheel comes off ever so easily and gives immediate access to the whole surface of the drive wheel, including being able to tighten up it's clamping nut which was loose on my machine. It also allows a clean-up of the motor drive shaft.

I don't know what the time span in between the sand paper treatment is, but from an engineering point of view the system is elegant in its simplicity of creating a huge step-down ratio without an expensive, and potentially troublesome gearbox._

Ha! I never thought of taking the honing wheel off, that would probably make it easier! Thanks!

I find sanding is not needed all that often, and perhaps if I take the wheel off I can do the job more thoroughly next time. And yes, it is a simple system, pity it slips. The amount you pay for the machine, you would think a more positive drive could be used!

I think the machine is flawed, but I have to say it does put a very nice edge on a spindle gouge.


----------



## OldWood (2 Dec 2013)

Finial

I take it that was one of those 'doh!!' moments - blonde or age ? Such things are obvious to one person and get completely missed by another, and the first is faced with "How do I word it so that I don't sound smug !"

In my case it was just as well I took the buffing wheel off as the nut for the drive wheel was not far short of coming with it.

Anyway it has been a successful post - my machine is running better than ever - you're a bit wiser - and the sanding seems to be a known servicing requirement.

Cheers
Rob


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (2 Dec 2013)

And that's the nice thing about this forum....no matter what the experience...everybody gets benefit


----------



## Finial (3 Dec 2013)

_I take it that was one of those 'doh!!' moments - blonde or age ? _

Too right! If I had just one more brain cell I might be ok.


----------



## eggplant (7 Jan 2016)

I'm a newbie to the forum, but wanted to ask for some assistance. 
My old Tormek slows down when I add any real pressure, to a near standstill. I came on to see if there was any advice about new motors, but it sounds like it's plausible that's not the issue.
Some posters suggested the drive shaft- I've never done this before- is there a guide to how to do it, or someone to whom I could take it in London who knows what they're doing? I don't want to mess it up completely.
Thanks for your help in advance,


----------



## OldWood (8 Jan 2016)

eggplant":1b9w8px2 said:


> I'm a newbie to the forum, but wanted to ask for some assistance.
> My old Tormek slows down when I add any real pressure, to a near standstill. I came on to see if there was any advice about new motors, but it sounds like it's plausible that's not the issue.
> Some posters suggested the drive shaft- I've never done this before- is there a guide to how to do it, or someone to whom I could take it in London who knows what they're doing? I don't want to mess it up completely.
> Thanks for your help in advance,



Hi Eggplant - just happened to be on when your query came through.

There are two contributory factors to slow running - one is the motor drive shaft slipping , and the second, which causes it, is that the main shaft bearing deteriorates with the water from the stone. 

There will no doubt be others who disagree with me on this but I always disconnect the water bath after sharpening - it may be that others think that the stone should always be kept wet, but my experience is that that dampness gets into the bearing and causes corrosion, or certainly makes it go stiff.

Every so often if the shaft is not running all that well I run a light oil into the bearing area and leave the machine running for a while to loosen it off. 

I haven't re-read the whole thread through but seem to remember that if the motor drive spindle had got a bit polished than some sand-paper on it was all that was necessary - but take the honing wheel off first. This actually is a very simple machine and you really can't go wrong. I would be a little careful with the oil as it could be that oil and stone don't mix !!

Rob


----------



## MusicMan (8 Jan 2016)

Hmmm, had a Tormek 2000 for over ten years, never taken the trough off after use (though the water evaporates quite quickly) and never had a seizing problem, despite it sometimes going unused for weeks. But maybe after reading this thread I'll stir my stumps and give it a clean and grease!

Thanks for the advice.

Keith


----------



## OldWood (8 Jan 2016)

Musicman - the other reason for removing the waterbath is that the stone gets wet only on one side when stationary and typically then collects rust on part of the working surface.

Rob


----------



## MusicMan (8 Jan 2016)

Oldwood, where does the rust come from, as the stone won't rust? And as mentioned, it's been fine for more than 10 years.

Keith


----------



## eggplant (8 Jan 2016)

hi Rob,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. I still don't know how exactly do I do that? I haven't taken it apart before.


----------

