# A Scottish question



## caretaker (5 Mar 2008)

This may seem odd to ask this question but do not know who to ask.
It's like this, my daughter is marrying a Scotsman this year.
List of details are, they live in south of England marrying in Glasgow, his family live in Glasgow, many guest from Glasgow, and me and wife from England.
The husband to-be and the best man (English) will be wearing kilts.
The question is can I?
I have no kin in Scotland but think it would look nice if I dressed in a kilt (hired for the occasion).
My daughter dose not mined but I have not talked to the boy friend yet.
Reg


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## woodbloke (6 Mar 2008)

I'm not sure on this one but my view would be that_ any_ Englishman shouldn't wear the kilt as it's the national dress of another country. Question of etiquette I think...I'd go for a smart lounge suite - Rob


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## PowerTool (6 Mar 2008)

If the best man is English,and wearing a kilt,I see no reason why you shouldn't (when I was at college,we hired kilts for the end-of-term dinner :shock: )
The important bit is to choose the right tartan - I'm sure there are non-clan-specific tartans that you could wear without offending anyone (unless you have _really _knobbly knees... :wink: )

Andrew


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## Saintsman (6 Mar 2008)

Reg,

Far from offending anyone, I would think that the wedding party and other guests would be pleased that you had made the effort.

As far as tartans are concerned, anyone is entitled to wear a non clan specific tartan, the best known of which is Royal Stewart (the famous, predominantly red one) but there are a few others.

HTH

Paul


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## tim (6 Mar 2008)

There isn't much point asking us really - we aren't going to be there. Your best bet is to talk to your future son in law - or better still get your daughter to sound him out because he may feel obliged to the father of the bride but would be able to speak his mind to her.

Congratulations btw

Cheers

Tim


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## Steve Maskery (6 Mar 2008)

Caretaker

Yes it is really a matter of etiquette. The main rule is that if you are English, you have to wear long-johns underneath, and the sporran hangs round the back.

Have a nice day.
S


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## Harbo (6 Mar 2008)

I have just come back from a Scottish wedding in Fife (English Nephew/Scottish bride) where males were requested to wear kilts if possible. And of the 300 guests only a handful did not - so all in all a very spectacular looking event!

My great Grandfather was Scottish but had an English surname (Vasey), but my English Grandmother was called Scott so tried to hire one in the Scott tartan (there's about 20 different Scott versions!!). No luck - it really is down to what the hire companies have in stock for your size. I finished up wearing Black Watch and my Grandson Modern Douglas. There are hundreds of different tartans but most hire companies use about 12 different ones which come in various shades and colours. I don't really think a Scotsman would be offended if you were wearing his clan?

If you can, hire one locally and arrange to have it delivered and collected to your hotel. The ones we hired were half the price of a Moss Bros set. They outfits are also very heavy (kilt, sporran, jacket, waistcoat, socks, shoes etc etc) so saves a lot of lugging around.
One tip we were given is not to unwrap the kilt but to loosen the buckles and pull it up like a skirt - I think this was one function where it took the gents nearly as long to get ready as the ladies?
:lol: 

Rod


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## Mike.C (6 Mar 2008)

Reg I am a Englishman living in the North of Scotland and I can tell you that 99% of Scots (around here anyway) would be impressed that you took the trouble to wear one.
One thing I would check is if there is a strong clan alliance in the family because again they will be impressed that you took the time to find out.

As for hiring one I would go along with Rod.

One tip whatever the rest of the guests do, wear something underneath the kilt, because it can get bloody cold up here, and the only ICEing should be on the cake :lol:

Have a great day

Cheers

Mike.


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## lurker (6 Mar 2008)

Further Steve Maskery's comments; you will also find they may like to discuss the English oil reserves lying just off Aberdeen.

I note the wedding is in Glasga. An opinion of the relative merits of Ranger & Celtic may bring forth an interesting interlectual discussion. 

Either will take their mind off what you are wearing.


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## SketchUp Guru (6 Mar 2008)

Steve Maskery":2kslzaeo said:


> Caretaker
> 
> Yes it is really a matter of etiquette. The main rule is that if you are English, you have to wear long-johns underneath, and the sporran hangs round the back.
> 
> ...



Would it be at all acceptable to wear a red woollen union suit with a drop seat beneath a kilt?


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## mr (6 Mar 2008)

woodbloke":2qh1j7h8 said:


> I'm not sure on this one but my view would be that_ any_ Englishman shouldn't wear the kilt as it's the national dress of another country. Question of etiquette I think...I'd go for a smart lounge suite - Rob



Strange seeing as Kilts as we think of them - ie as a means of clan identification etc - only came into use in 1822 as a result of the George IVs visit to Scotland, and were used partially as a means of shoring up Georges sovereignty over the Scottish people. He was pursuaded to wear "the garb of old gaul" a an indication that he was not only a Stuart Prince but also a Jacobite highlander (prior to 1822 only highlanders had really worn kilts as a practical item of clothing and not as a means of identifying familial affiliations). George IV had the Royal Stuart tartan created especially for the visit, and people have been creating their own tartans ever since. You could for example wear the generic New Caledonia tartan if you wanted to - but then as Rob says personally I would go with the lounge suit. It's one of those things that raises the question how long does it take to establish a tradition, is 200 years sufficient as in this case? 

Cheers Mike


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## Scott (6 Mar 2008)

Good advice from Tim there! It's usually the families organising the wedding who ask for kilts and if they do so normally ask for as many as possible. It's supposed to be a bit of fun so it would probably be taken as a compliment that an englishman wanted to wear one (as long as you wear it correctly!). As previously said it makes for a better spectacle on the day. And there will be more of you on the hotel steps for the obligatory "kilts over the head and bums in the air photo"!  

(a wee hint here - it's bums only, keep your knees together or you really will give the ladies a laugh when they're trying to guess who was who!) :lol: :lol: 

I've been to lots of weddings (including my own!) with Englishmen and other nationalities wearing kilts. I know at least two Frenchmen and an Iraqi who own their own kilt outfit and a Swiss who got married in one himself (Jockanese wife mindyou). Unless the family or invited guests are rabid Scottish Nationalists I doubt you'd be offending anyone. Quite the opposite in fact! 

Personally I'm more offended by the tat they peddle these days as "modern" kilts! "Skirts for jessies" my old man used to call them! Samuel L Jackson & Co have a lot to answer for! Stick with the traditional!

Definitely steer well clear of Celtic or Rangers tartan, especially in Glasgow! Everyone has an opinion!

You'll find most hire shops have a limited range of tartans available. Some might only have 4 or 5. Best to check with others in the bridal party in case there are any hideous colour clashes for the photos!

And you'll find they're not at all cold to wear! A wee bit of dancing and the sweat will be running down yer leg! :lol: :lol:

Awra best


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## lurker (6 Mar 2008)

I've lived & worked in the far north and so far as I can see the BIG attraction of a kilt is you buy one when you have stopped growing (in height) and it continues to fit no matter how much you grow (in width). Should be able to buy one at around 20 and still get into it at 90.

So........ its the canny Scots ensuring they only have to buy "best clothes" the once :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## caretaker (6 Mar 2008)

I was a bit worried for a short time as I did not get any reply's but what a response I got from you all.
I am overwhelmed.
I have been looking at the hire shops on the Internet but will have a look at my local hire shop this week.
You lot have sold me on the idea.
Will phone my daughter and if she agrees, will ask her to sound out the new son in law to see what he says.
I can't wait now, roll on June Gretna Green here I come.
When or if I get the kilt I will post photos, as you lot are responsible, only joking.
How about the black watch tartan?
Thanks again
McReg


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## TrimTheKing (6 Mar 2008)

Hi Reg

How about a non tartan kilt if you are concerned?

I got married in Edinburgh a couple of years back and chose a plain grey kilt rather than the family tartan (Sutherland, I don't particularly like it). Partly also because I am a bit of a fashion victim, but the whole wedding party and some of my mates wore the same and it looked great.

This is where I had mine made, but they hire also 21st Century Kilts, and if you are at all interested, I will post a pic later. I am at work at the moment and can't do it.

Cheers

Mark


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## Digit (6 Mar 2008)

I faced the same problem some years ago and was advised by a shop owner in Fort William that the Royal Stewart tartan was the Queen's personal tartan and that any subject of her maj should wear the same.
I also decided to buy and try a Haggis.
What's the plural of Haggis I wanted to know when the wife decided she wanted to take one home to mum.
I went into the butchers and asked for a Haggis and as he was about to wrap my order I added, 'make it two while you're at it will you?'
And I still don't know what the plural is, anyone enlighten me?


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## TrimTheKing (7 Mar 2008)

Digit":3itdumgp said:


> I still don't know what the plural is, anyone enlighten me?



Haggii :wink: 

Mark


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## Scott (7 Mar 2008)

caretaker":mkvfdupu said:


> How about the black watch tartan?



Good choice! Quite subdued and not "in yer face" like some of them.


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## Losos (9 Mar 2008)

Make sure you check the weather forecast on the day :lol:


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## Slim (9 Mar 2008)

Reg, My tartan is Grant (Born in Aberdeenshire). When I was having my kilt made, I went for the Ancient Hunting Grant, which is also the ancient Blackwatch. It is a beautiful understated tartan. It is entirely dependant on what the hire shop stocks of course, and the stock is usually suitable for the region. ie: plenty of blackwatch/Grant in Aberdeenshire.

Also, Blackwatch kilts are readily available from army surplus shops. Although, they are lightweight tartan with fewer yards of fabric.

http://www.lochcarron.com/tartanstrome/black_watch.html

I don't believe in strict clan associations. You should wear whichever takes your fancy. Having been to numerous Scottish weddings, I have found that an Englishman wearing a kilt goes down very well. In fact, it is the ones that don't wear a kilt that get jeered.

Best of luck. AND DON'T WEAR UNDERPANTS!!!


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## Woodmagnet (9 Mar 2008)

Slim":k8ejnucf said:


> Best of luck. AND DON'T WEAR UNDERPANTS!!!



But beware of the ladies with a mirror like finish on their shoes :wink: 
p.s. As above but include some men(you'll know which one's, they are in pink kilts.) :lol:


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## Slim (9 Mar 2008)

kevin":7gi8lquc said:


> But beware of the ladies with a mirror like finish on their shoes :wink:
> p.s. As above but include some men(you'll know which one's, they are in pink kilts.) :lol:



Funny you should mention that Kevin. When I was quite young, I went to my Uncle's wedding. I remember my Great Aunt turned up with a mirror mounted on a pole! Cheeky minx!


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## Scott (10 Mar 2008)

Slim":3ue8yg2h said:


> ancient Blackwatch. It is a beautiful understated tartan.



Same as my own kilt Simon.


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## lurker (10 Mar 2008)

Two Haggis are a brace

As in "I shot a fine brace of haggis".


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## Digit (10 Mar 2008)

Thank you Lurker, I'm sure we will all find that useful next time north of the border! :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Roy.


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## Vormulac (11 Mar 2008)

lurker":qinz1t18 said:


> Two Haggis are a brace
> 
> As in "I shot a fine brace of haggis".



I think you'll find it's actually a 'Gaggle of Haggeese', and you're meant to trap them, isn't shooting them considered unsporting? 
And an Englishman should only wear 'Black Watch' when in it's formal mode of a full length, off the shoulder ball-kilt (with train - obviously).


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol: I am glad I asked! Another piece of knowledge to store away!


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## Slim (11 Mar 2008)

Roy, I presume you know what a Haggis looks like, should you ever come across one in the wild. :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (11 Mar 2008)

And of course, that particular example is a clockwise haggis, as you can clearly see that its left paw is longer than its right, caused by generations of haggiii grazing clockwise around the mountains.
S


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

:lol: :lol: Open the cage!!

Roy.


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## Slim (11 Mar 2008)

Steve,

It is the male that has longer left legs, and can only go clockwise round the mountains. The female has longer right legs goes anticlockwise.

This is the reason they are so rare in the wild. In order to mate, the male must face the same way as the female. Ofcourse, he loses his balance and rolls down the side of the mountain. :lol:


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

:lol: :lol: Some of you chaps are in the wrong jobs.

Roy.


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## caretaker (11 Mar 2008)

This is just an update to the kilt wedding.
I have asked my daughter if this would be alright and her answer was great idea.
I have asked her to ask my new son in law what he thinks of the idea.
Keeping my fingers crossed.
Oh and my legs.
I must be crazy but I think it would look just bootifull.
Don't know when to tell the wife...


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

> Don't know when to tell the wife...



That's one Hell of a brave man!

Roy.


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## Steve Maskery (11 Mar 2008)

Slim

You do realize that there is one important question we have not addressed here? Is that a West Coast haggis or an East Coast haggis? It's a bit difficult to tell at this time of the year, but I reckon it's an East Coaster. I think the WCs have more of a bouffant hairstyle due to the prevailing wind, whereas the ECs have more of the Neil-from-the-Young-Ones look about them, being more sheltered in the lee of the country.

S


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

Oh my Gawd!

Roy.


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## Rich (11 Mar 2008)

This beats the telly anyday, thanks for a cheap nights entertainment chaps, the back of my head hurts from laughing, and hids as well, :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Rich.


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## Digit (11 Mar 2008)

I'll be heading for Scotland later this year, anyone know when the breeding is, and if I catch a young one can they be house trained?

Roy.


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## Slim (11 Mar 2008)

Steve, 

the easiest way to tell if they are east coat or west coast is the accent. When you greet a west coast Haggis, he may say something like "You gonny move paal", whereas an east coaster would perhaps say "Fit like mun?... Ah me mun, ney bad mun, foos yursel?". :lol:


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## caretaker (13 Mar 2008)

I am so disappointed, I have been told that I can NOT ware a kilt.
What is my daughter letting her self in for.
I am really upset about it but I will not let anyone in the family know how I feel, just going to say I have changed my mind.
disgruntled Reg


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## Steve Maskery (13 Mar 2008)

Reg, that's really rotten.
Now me, I don't like people telling me I MAY not do something (provided it's legal of course!), so I'd be inclined to make a point some other way. How about a big comedy tartan hat?

S


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## Vormulac (13 Mar 2008)

I'm sorry to hear that Reg 
Some people, eh?


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## Slim (13 Mar 2008)

Why? Were you given a reason? I am shocked!


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## Lons (21 Mar 2018)

Digit":3l7k3p4j said:


> What's the plural of Haggis



HORRIBLEIS


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## Steve Maskery (22 Mar 2018)

Ten years...


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## sunnybob (22 Mar 2018)

knowing several Glaswegians, and taking into account the alcohol that will be supped at the reception,

The second item on your shopping list should be a laptop loaded with google translate.
:roll: :shock: :lol:


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