# How Not to Make a Japanese Tool Box!



## RossJarvis (26 Sep 2013)

Well then, I thought you might be interested in my further attempts at backyard chipentry. Even if you’re not I’m still going to start posting about it anyway. Having got a couple of Japanese saws I thought I’d look up my Japanese tool book again. In there, the author mentions the traditional Japanese Carpenter’s tool-box, which seems very basic and simple and functional. “Hey hey” says I, “even I could make that, shouldn’t be too difficult!”. How wrong could I possibly be? Scouting around t’internet there’s a good few how to do these and probably a few on UKWorkshop too. However this is different, this is a “how not to build a Japanese(ish) tool box!”.

So then, I found a passing friend going to B&Q, cadged a lift and got some 12” by 1750mm boards;





…got round to finishing some low Japanese saw stools I’d started;





and ventured once more into the “workshop”;





I had bought 3 boards, having “ahem” carefully worked out how many I might need to do the job from my immaculate plans;





First thing was to work out how long to make it, my initial idea was to make it as wide and as high as a board and long enough for the longest tool to fit in. As this is going to be my longest saw, I stuck a saw on the board at the end at an angle;






The front? of the saw is where the end of the inside of the box will be and there’ll be a bit of board across the top end about 3 inches wide, so I added 3” onto the end of the handle and rounded it up to a nice round number, this’ll be 30” long. Next I marked square across the board; 





…notice my nice new Japanese marking knife? My old Footprint is not pointy and only works one way round, so instead of grinding it pointy I spent some money instead. ……and then cut three boards all at once;





…at this point I’m quite chuffed by following the line very closely and cutting right next to it and it’s cut square;





Next thing I realise is the board is rounded down one edge, “It’s shelving you plonker, course it’s got a rounded edge!”, plus one of the boards is a few mm narrower than the other two;





Hmm, this quick and easy five minute job’s starting to look like a bit like a two or three day-er now. So time to sit down and have two cups of tea to sort out what to do. The boards’ll need to be the same width, or two will at least, plus I think I’ll need to have flat tops or bottoms to glue to the other bits. Wot I needs to do is plane the edges flat, together. I could try clamping them together and standing them up, but I’m sure there’s a better way. Aha, why not make a shooting board says I!;

So I get two of the other board ends, one sticking out to run the plane on, and one recessed to give clearance for the iron to plane edge and out with my trusty 5 ½ ;





Shhh shhh shhh and some nice long shavings;





However, after a little while the old lumbago started playing up and I realised why the Japanese sit on the floor with pull-planes, so I thought I needed some elevation;





…nope, that aint working;





…yep, that’s better, a couple of clamps and some wedged strips and oooh look at those nice fine shavings;





(it almost looks like I know wot I’m doing for a second!). shh shhh shh for a bit and;





there’s some nice level boards and….;





yep, that’s square;





and straight.

To be continued…….


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## No skills (26 Sep 2013)

Japanese saws, fancy sketch up drawings. The budgets blown already.


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

No skills":2cm2ajkv said:


> Japanese saws, fancy sketch up drawings. The budgets blown already.



You do not know how correct you are, I'm currently working out how to make sandpaper with what I've got lying around, Weetabix box, spray carpet glue and a bag of sand is the current plan!!

The next bit is to make the ends. These are recessed for some handles. Now the width is, erm, let me think, the width of the board minus two thicknesses, that’s about……I know, measure the thickness of two boards, lay one across the bit I’m going to cut, take off the two thicknesses and hit it with the saw;





B****r, I knew I was being overly chuffed, this means a lot of shaving with the block plane, to get to the line;





and…….b****r, test fitting showed I was too wide and the sides were about 5mm wider than the base with the ends in place;





……so I took 5mm off the ends with the saw (actually followed the line this time) and then the whole lot was about 3mm too narrow?????????????;





After a cup of thinking tea, I realised that one of the boards was a couple of mm thinner than the other two and I swapped them around too often!! Should have marked each side and the bottom with big letters or summat. Anyway, I thought it was either time to go in or carry on and glue and pin it up. Typically, I made the wrong decision and carried on when it was obvious my thinking brain had decided to go inside without me. I next put some temporary blocks inside the sides to stick the ends up to when putting it together (the end pieces will go up to the inner side of these, as there’s a recess for handles at each end);





It put some effort and more thinking tea to come up with how to do this, with no work table and only two 12” handy clamps. Bearing in mind my thinking brain was in-doors watching the telly, this proved to not be the best decision I’ve ever made, but that’s for tomorrow……..


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

So, onto the blunders of the day. As mentioned. The thinking brain was indoors watching Top Gear on Dave (for the 15 millionth time), whilst the body was outside. Looking at the box, I thought it was looking a bit tall for it’s width and was also thinking about having a tray that fitted inside for bits n bobs n stuff. “I know”, says I “build it, cut the top off, fiddle a bit to make the top smaller and you’ve got four sides of a tray to fit inside.” So I bunged my tallest tool inside;





…and worked out that I’d need six inches clearance for the bottom. I could then work out how big the top was, divide it in two, do a little fiddling for clearance etc and know how much to cut off. Pure genius!

However, I then started sticking it together, somehow I now convinced myself that I was going to cut the top off six inches from the base!!!! So sellotaped the sides of the end bits 6” up so they wouldn’t stick to the side bits?!?;





squirted some glue on the end wotsits, cack handedly assembled these on the base-board and clamped the ends together and pinned the top and bottoms of the end wotsits from the outside;





This lot seemed square and level in the up and downward dimension as it was all flush and tightish to the board, so I flipped it over and pinned the bottom on, ensuring that the ends of the side-boards(!?!) were flush at one end of the base and one side at least, was flush with the edge of the base.

Now, as I’ve mentioned more than once, the thinking brain was inside, now having a snooze on the sofa. I had a couple of options on joining the whole lot together, screws or nails. The old traditional Japanese way is with nails and to my mind it’s a bit easier than screwing (fnaar fnaar). So I bashed a couple of nails in free-hand;





T**s, B****r and other expletives, so I got out Mr Makita “He very tough, He very Strong” and drilled some pilot holes in for the rest. Bash, Bash, Bish, Ouch, the base was on the sides and ends, all I had to do was bash the sides onto the end wotsits. So I flipped it on its side, Bash, Bish, Bosh and job done. However, had I checked that the end wotsits were supported when Bashing? Course not, so they’d slipped down a bit and then got bashed into position in the wrong position;





…still I suppose it’ll help for drainage or air circulation or Summat. I marked the centre(ish)lines of the boards for nailing, but left final positioning up to my own aesthetic principles;





I believe the non-even spacing is based on the Golden Section and therefore much more philosophically correct than using a rule.!!

I also realised that the edges of the end wotsits weren’t square to the faces, leaving more room for expansion (and too much for adhesion);





Anyway, it surely can’t get any worse can it? So onward and upward for a new day.

TTFN


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## mseries (27 Sep 2013)

isn't one of the traits of a Japanese toolbox the through tenons holding the ends to the sides ? With those done nicely you'll probably not need nails nor screws, just joinery and glue. I hate to criticise as I am enjoying this thread and your narrative.


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## No skills (27 Sep 2013)

Hmmm, lack of sandpaper could be a problem on a job like this. Do you have any family from 'up north' ? I have been led to believe they have plenty of 'grit' there, perhaps they can send you some. 

Failing that I'll send some in the post.


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

Hmmmm! Have you ever had one of those days when you’ve thought “I don’t think I should have done that!” or “I really don’t think I should have gone out to the workshop today, cos my thinking brain is still asleep” or “WHY OH WHY OH WHY DID I GET OUT OF BED!!!”

Today has been one of those days. I should have learnt the last time I tried to cut the lid off a box, or I should have got the table saw out, or I should have decided the box looked fine as it was. Currently I don’t think I should have thought “I know, I’ll cut the top off that box, with a Japanese saw that I’ve not got used to yet”.

It almost started well. I marked a line 6” up from the base on each side, then remembered that that’s the height of my plane. So I measured from there to the top, divided that in two, thought a bit then guessed that 2 ½” down from the top would be okay, rubbed the first line out and marked the new line. Next I started ripping along the lines at each corner, till I started cutting into the recessed ends and marked a line across from the kerfs. So far so good. I was noticing that there was a lot of juddering going on, which I hadn’t had when testing the rip side of the blades out. I then tried ripping across the ends;





At this point, I was finding it a bit tricky as the saw was juddering quite a bit and it was difficult getting the angle right, plus I wasn’t following the line as well as usual. I was thinking it might be because I wasn’t standing above the work. Anyway, I cut across both ends;





..not brilliant but not too far out. Next to rip down the sides. For this the work was lower and I could put a foot on it, however;





Hmmmm, not quite on the line here, and I don’t think the blade should be over at that angle. I carried on from the other end and joined the two cuts up. Then I started on the other side and “OH WHAT THE B****Y H***S GOING ON HERE!!!” I was getting frustrated with the saw juddering, then it was leaning more and more to the right and then I lost the line and will to live;




Here’s the top bit wot I cut off;





…and here’s the bottom bit wot I’ve got left;









and here’s where the b****y saw bit me;





All I can say is ****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve now got a box with a top edge all on the p**s (at an angle) in every b****y angle known to man and probably some unknown ones, plus some bits for a tray which is completely on the p**s in the opposite manner.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the b****y h**l am I gonna sort this out? The options seem to be; a, lots of planing, once I’ve marked a new line to go to, by hand; b, Getting out the planer and making a racket and shavings everywhere; c, unboxing the table saw and using that.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!

Todays main lesson learnt appears to be that using Japanese saws requires some practice and finding the correct technique and way of holding them.

B****r, I’m going out for a walk, I may be some time!


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## Racers (27 Sep 2013)

A bit of smoothing an it will be fine.

It's not how good you are, it's how good you are at hiding your mistakes.

Pete


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

mseries":17nq8ype said:


> isn't one of the traits of a Japanese toolbox the through tenons holding the ends to the sides ? With those done nicely you'll probably not need nails nor screws, just joinery and glue. I hate to criticise as I am enjoying this thread and your narrative.



There's a few different styles, but the most common I've seen, of the old school is a very plain nailed type. There seemed to be some inverse snobbery where the carpenter went for a very plain, if not crude, box. I had enough of tenons on the last job and was looking for an easy project . Looking at a lot of Japanese joinery, there's a strange reliance on very crude nailing for much work, wheras the Western tradition is more on tenoning and dovetails etc.


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## Paul Chapman (27 Sep 2013)

I bet the apprentice was glad he wasn't around........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

No skills":1gwoylve said:


> Hmmm, lack of sandpaper could be a problem on a job like this. Do you have any family from 'up north' ? I have been led to believe they have plenty of 'grit' there, perhaps they can send you some.
> 
> Failing that I'll send some in the post.



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

I used to live in Sheffield and have friends there (although some dispute if it's really North) They've got so much grit round there I think they used to export it!!


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

Paul Chapman":351u2svc said:


> I bet the apprentice was glad he wasn't around........
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



"Yeah, it's quite a close fit innit..."



"...ere, wot you doin' with that spade?...."


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## Paul Chapman (27 Sep 2013)

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## No skills (27 Sep 2013)

From Sheffield, surely you should be forging your own tools?

What's the thoughts on fixing todays experiment?


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

No skills":1f0vzpo7 said:


> From Sheffield, surely you should be forging your own tools?
> 
> What's the thoughts on fixing todays experiment?



I was told by the judge to stop forging....after the last lot of £9 notes!!!

Looking at the first attempt I can see the corners were okay and pretty square, it was when I was ripping along that it went all to cock. So far my brain was saying that planing by hand would be a pain, as the bits where the corners meet would be hard to do. I then had an idea and now I'm thinking to mark a line all round, to the lowest of the rubbish bit, then re-cut the corners and cut the corner waste out, which just leaves the raised middles of the top of the boards to plane flat. See diagram below;





..am just hoping the thinking brain has re-engaged! The thin bits for the tray shouldn't be too difficult...should they?


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## No skills (27 Sep 2013)

Bet the judge kept a few notes.

Sounds like a fair plan to level the box, will it still be tall enough after levelling? 

My solution was to glue the top bit back on and re cut it with something that has a much wider kerf, funnly enough those handy Festival folks have started selling a saw that could be used - but again you would need to be in the white slavery business to afford it.

Being thick I don't understand where the thin bits are or what you are doing with them, given enough tea and bourbons all will be well.


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## paul saunders (27 Sep 2013)

Just mark a new line all the way around at the lowest point, plane the corners flush to the line with your block plane and then plane the rest with a no4 or no5. 

Sent from my AN10BG3 using Tapatalk 2


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

Thanks for the input guys, both good ideas.

The thin bits are the "top bits" of the box that I cut off. These are going to be the sides of the tray that fits into the top of the box. And yes, there may not be enough box left for what I want. I suppose I could cut the top of the plane off! I saw a blog by a Swedish chap who made one of these boxes, but it was a bit too small for his Japanese square, so he chopped the end off the square! I thought it was a brilliant solution, if not a little unorthodox.

I must admit a bit of drooling over the Festitool range, but somehow I don't think I'll be buying much. If I saved up for a year or two I might be able to buy one of their nice boxes. Not being a white slaver is why I'm cacking up making my own box out of tree.

Thanks for the idea about the block plane on the corners Paul. I'm just wondering how long that would take with about 1/3" to cut down to. I had a lot of trouble planing the corners of a box before and I'm not quite getting my head round how to do it. maybe I'd need to plane a slope down to the corners?


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## dm65 (27 Sep 2013)

Is someone making a box ??

10 out of 10 for the commentary, wetting myself reading it

Keep up the good work - at least the dog looks happy - oh, sorry, he doesn't


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## RossJarvis (27 Sep 2013)

dm65":26lmhcm1 said:


> Is someone making a box ??
> 
> 10 out of 10 for the commentary, wetting myself reading it
> 
> Keep up the good work - at least the dog looks happy - oh, sorry, he doesn't



Dog? dog? what dog? Oh, you mean "the apprentice". I found him down the job-centre, they said he was Cumbrian, you know, very hairy, very short, with enormous feet. Designed for working outside all day long but prefer to lounge around the house all day thinking about cheese! He is a bit hairy I admit, but I think you need that to keep out the cold and the wet up in the Lakes.


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## No skills (27 Sep 2013)

Should you be a white slaver but too embarrassed to admit it consider one of these - the kerf should be wide enough to sort the problem.

Skip to about 1.50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W1wzrUbHgM

I'll go away now.


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

No skills":1lfllslc said:


> Should you be a white slaver but too embarrassed to admit it consider one of these - the kerf should be wide enough to sort the problem.
> 
> Skip to about 1.50
> 
> ...



No, no, no, you'll get me going back to ogling the Mafell web-site next. Don't you just love those german builders/framers waist-coats! We should have something like that over here, like bowler hats or Morris-Dancer-wear for traditional craftsmen.


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## Graham Orm (28 Sep 2013)

Thanks for the commentary very entertaining and honest. 

Tip: When ripping down a long side like you were, instead of sawing up and down, Once the cut is started at a corner, rather than cut down through the wood cut across it. Lie the saw along the line more so that it cuts along it and creates a kerf for the main cut to follow. This will make it easy to be accurate and also cure the juddering problem. Hold the saw almost loosely in your hand and let the teeth do the work rather than gripping tightly and trying to force it. 

Ten out of ten for effort, don't even think of giving up, you're doing great.


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

Grayorm":2x1gpmx8 said:


> Thanks for the commentary very entertaining and honest.
> 
> Tip: When ripping down a long side like you were, instead of sawing up and down, Once the cut is started at a corner, rather than cut down through the wood cut across it. Lie the saw along the line more so that it cuts along it and creates a kerf for the main cut to follow. This will make it easy to be accurate and also cure the juddering problem. Hold the saw almost loosely in your hand and let the teeth do the work rather than gripping tightly and trying to force it.
> 
> Ten out of ten for effort, don't even think of giving up, you're doing great.



Thanks for the advice Grayorm  

Never really done much ripping before by hand, plus still trying to get the hang of the pull saw. I think the board being quite thin isn't helping either. I need much more practice at this.

I'm thinking the action of ripping here is a bit like using a western saw by cutting into a plank from the end nearest you, with the handle held below it, pushing(pulling) into the grain, not cutting along it away from you (out the end). In a way putting the fibres into compression, not tension. (I know, it sounds like the worker's blaming his tools, but I think there may be something in this. I've seen that some westerners use the Japanese rip saw with the handle below the wood, replicating the western way of cutting along the fibres. The traditional Japanese manner, I think, actually utilises a different angle of attack.)


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

I made it about 30 minutes in the “workshop” before “rain stopped play”. So I’ve come in to chat to you lot and tried a bit of applied thinking, in the hope that the thinking brain has come back.

I measured how much of the top of the box had been Mullered, 3/8” and marked a line around to cut/plane to, I also thought I'd better move a nail!;





I’d been thinking over suggestions on how to do this and decided as it was quite a lot of wood that I’d need to remove at the corners, so I thunked that I’d cut them with the saw, as I wasn’t quite so rubbish at that. Then I put some battens on to act as a guide;





Then I started cutting, the first corner I angled the saw down and cut, reasonably smoothly;





….and the next corner I cut up, trying to vary the angle, but generally using a low angle (30-45ish degrees); this went juddery or smoothly depending, I think I started realising why (we’ll come to that later);





I noticed afterward, that even with the guide, I still wasn’t getting a straight/square cut;









There’s a lot more to using these saws than I’d thought!!

One side was fine;





but the corresponding end was still a bit on the p**s. Luckily, the guide battens meant the cut went into the bit I didn’t want this time. This was when rain occurred, so I came in to drink my tea on the sofa instead of the garden chair (need to get some Hob-nobs). I then tried some thinking, which has started to induce a head-ache.

I was thinking about the difference between a Japanese saw and a Western saw, following yesterdays revelation. It’s not just that the blade is thinner, and being tensioned/pulled, instead of compressed/pushed. The way of hitting the grain is different too, this is regarding Rip Sawing anyway, the brain is not capable of thinking about cross-cut yet;





..not sure how clear the diagram is, but hopefully you get the drift. The angle of attack on the fibres is different, which is why I think they need to be used with a very high angle, approaching 90 degrees. The instructions I’ve read from older Japanese types is to have the board low, effectively you stand on it, and you rip upwards, with the blade slightly angled toward you. You need to cut the fibres at nearly 90 degrees to the direction they go in. With Western saws, the fibres are stretched, so you can use a lower angle.

I also noticed that as I ripped, the saw could judder or be fairly smooth, I think this was to do with the angle at which I started each cut and this may have been affected by holding the saw at a lower angle (trying to get the cut as straight as I could). Once I started cutting, depending on the angle of the saw, I was starting each cut either on the lower side or the higher side of the board;





Not sure how clear the diagram is, but it’s trying to show what I think was happening. If correct, I need to “lift” the saw a little at the start of each cut stroke to ensure the teeth start on the lower fibres/face and then lower the angle a tad each stroke. Hopefully an elderly Japanese Shokunin will chip in to advise.


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## Graham Orm (28 Sep 2013)

You're over thinking it. Just lie the saw down flat along the wood instead of trying to cut straight down. Create a kerf along your cut line and the saw will follow it.


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## Graham Orm (28 Sep 2013)

Make the saw angle 30 degrees instead of 80


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## flying haggis (28 Sep 2013)

No skills":1fic6ov1 said:


> Should you be a white slaver but too embarrassed to admit it consider one of these - the kerf should be wide enough to sort the problem.
> 
> Skip to about 1.50
> 
> ...



The "elf n safety" brigade would have a field day with that saw in this country. 

Where can I buy one!?


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## Paul Chapman (28 Sep 2013)

I think using Japanese tools requires a totally different technique compared with western tools. The Japanese tend to sit on the floor when doing much of their woodwork so it stands to reason that the way you hold the tools and the angles at which you use them will be different. The Japanese way of working has never appealed to me so I stick with western-style tools.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

Grayorm":1y2ulqg1 said:


> You're over thinking it. Just lie the saw down flat along the wood instead of trying to cut straight down. Create a kerf along your cut line and the saw will follow it.



Grayorm, you are 100% right, I got the saw as low as it could go and there was a grand improvement. The main problem is the angle I am working at. Due to the paucity of work surfaces in the "workshop" I'm doing this on the saw stools, 6" off the floor or so, so am kneeling down etc. Back-ache, hand-ache and brain-ache in spades!


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## Graham Orm (28 Sep 2013)

RossJarvis":1crtcvz2 said:


> Grayorm":1crtcvz2 said:
> 
> 
> > You're over thinking it. Just lie the saw down flat along the wood instead of trying to cut straight down. Create a kerf along your cut line and the saw will follow it.
> ...



Welcome to my world, I fit kitchens and bathrooms :wink:


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

Hennyway, the rain, rain went away (to Spain?) and I wandered back outside and put everything back out and trimmed the waste from the corners;









….jammed the end against a carefully positioned nail;





…and planed the wobbly bits off;





….surprisingly enough the results were pretty square and straight;









…apart from one little bit where I’d still managed to undercut;





Next job was to start ripping the top end-cappy wotsits, following Grayorms sage advice, I laid the saw down;





…to the angle above and lower, this resolved a lot of vibration issues. Hey Ho Nonny, a fairly straight cut;





I then discovered that the box was perfect to lay a plane upside-down in to trim the bits of wood straight and square;





…and made an excellent receptacle for the shavings;





…and before long one end wotsit bashed home;





…then another;





..and then a check to see if the saw fits;





…woopsie, another cock-up on the measuring front. I’d forgotten to allow for the end recess when miscalculating the size. However with a bit of bendification;





VOILA!

Nextly I ripped the edge off another bit of board, cut it to length and worked out how to hold it upright to plane the edge to size;





…and howzat, it fits;





A bit more ripping (note the nail wedged in to stop the wood binding on the blade which it was doing verily much);





and a couple of batten doo-dahs to hold the lid up;





..and hey ho, most of the major structure done;









…..a little bit of tartification on the corners to relieve the arris’s





….and that’s the end of a good days work. Tomorrow off and Monday may see the arrival of handles, plus a chisel tray and other odds and sods.


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## RossJarvis (28 Sep 2013)

Grayorm":2h4hhy5g said:


> Welcome to my world, I fit kitchens and bathrooms :wink:



Having recently fitted new taps in the kitchen and bathroom and nearly completely knackered myself in the process  , I don't envy you.


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## Graham Orm (28 Sep 2013)

Nice job in the end. Considering your working circumstances you've done well :wink:


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## No skills (29 Sep 2013)

No rain here, bit windy tho.

Good progress. I must get a new ryoba (sp?), this thread reminds me how useful they are.

Hows the box to be finished?


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## RossJarvis (29 Sep 2013)

No skills":35sdk56n said:


> No rain here, bit windy tho.
> 
> Good progress. I must get a new ryoba (sp?), this thread reminds me how useful they are.
> 
> Hows the box to be finished?



Cheers No skills  

Generally speaking, it's going to be a deliberate rough and ready state and left as is. I've got to put some wooden "handles" on the end, I'm thinking of rope handles as well and put some kind of dividers and chisel tray in it. I've found a set of brass corners which I've had for ages, but they just don't look rough'n'ready enough. I'm thinking of pinning some brass sheet strip on the corners for protection. However, in the spirit of the thing, any unnecessary adornment or non practical tartification is out. Plus the cheaper looking it is the less nickable I think it might be.

Having Googled a bit more into these, there appear to be two approaches to these things, the done in 10 minutes, bashed together from scraps and then those with through tenons, finger joints etc, showing some of the carpenter/joiners art. Mine is a 10 minute job (though taking considerably longer time and effort). I'm mainly using it for hand-skills practice, particularly on Japanese saws, which I currently appear to be fairly poor at. I have an inkling that the 7 year Japanese apprenticeship may be how long it takes to learn how to use the b****y things! :shock:


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## Flynnwood (29 Sep 2013)

Hi Ross

You might enjoy this guy to shave some time off that ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa5wIpfhGcY


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## RossJarvis (30 Sep 2013)

Well, a new week and I managed to do no-where near what I intended today, but one step forward is always further along than none. I had thought that I probably wasn’t properly equipped for using the Japanese saws so;





Ta Da! Japanese Ninja Carpenter Boots. If these don’t get me sawing like a pro, nothing will.

Today I was going to make the end wotsits that are used as handles for carrying the box. All I needed was to make some bits of wood to fit in the recesses at the end of the box, with some spacers and job done. Can’t be difficult can it? I was going to cut an off-cut of board in half for this and thought that instead of ripping it, I could use the Japanese technique for cutting thin boards. If dividing the board along the grain, they use something very like a marking gauge with a knife in it. They slit down one side then slit the other and snap it. So I tried slicing/knifing both sides of the board;





…and then leant on it to simply snap along the line. Lean, LEAN, LEEEAAAANN, nope, no breaking. So I had to b****y well rip it. Not noticing any great improvement from the boots yet. Plane the edges neat and square;





Trim the edges to make the hand holds nice and smooth;





put some spacers in the end of the box;





and all I need to do is pop the handles in, simples;





B******s, another miscockulation. I’m thinking I measured the gap at the end with two bits of thin board and am trying to fill the gap with two bits of thick board. So, bang a couple of nails in the “workbench”, jam the boards up to them, shhhh, shhh, shhh, with the No 5 ½ bam, bam, bam and Hey Presto;





Two nice flush end wotsits. That was it for today so now one finished outer box (sans rope handles and internals);


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## Paul Chapman (30 Sep 2013)

It's looking great, Ross 8) Not sure about the boots, though....... :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Richard T (1 Oct 2013)

Looking good Ross. Glad to see you use the same version of SketchUp as I do.


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## RossJarvis (1 Oct 2013)

Cheers Paul and Richard 

I'm not convinced by the boots myself, they don't appear to have improved the sawing yet 
Yes I use Hand Sketchup V1.0.


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## RossJarvis (3 Oct 2013)

Very little to report still, as garden tidying and rain has generally stopped play this week. All I’ve done so far is plane the edges of the bits which will make the sides of the tray;





Here you may notice my planing arrangement on my “high-tech workbench”; a few nails to stop movement and hoping that it is upright. Then I checked to see if the tray will fit in above the plane and leave 15mm clearance for the lid;





As I’ve done so little, I thought I’d show you my nuts!;





The apprentice says he could do with a couple, what with that little operation he had and all! That’s 2 ½ kilos of wild hazelnuts (Cobnuts to those of you from Kent), picked up over three days going for a walk with the apprentice. Should save me a couple of quid come Christmas.


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## Graham Orm (3 Oct 2013)

I have to say I love my nuts. I usually keep them in the bag between me and the chair arm (stops the dog getting at them). If we have guests, my wife makes me put them in a bowl. :mrgreen:


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## RossJarvis (4 Oct 2013)

Grayorm":q8vb12ko said:


> I have to say I love my nuts. I usually keep them in the bag between me and the chair arm (stops the dog getting at them). If we have guests, my wife makes me put them in a bowl. :mrgreen:



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D>


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## RossJarvis (4 Oct 2013)

Another slow day today. The Weather forecast said it would be fine, so I spent a long time hiding under hazel-bushes (looking for my nuts) from a veritable monsoon. Eventually I managed to make it home and spent a bit of time on the toolbox. First off I nailed a couple of bits of batton on the bottom for “feet”;









That should keep it away from the crud and wet on the “workshop” floor. Then I had a look at the last bit of board, that’s going to be the bottom of the chisel tray;





Hmmm, I believe that’s called “cupping”, just remember that if you’re thinking of buying pine shelving from B&Q! This means I’ll have to nail it to the bottom of the side and ends of the tray. This poses a problem, as the tray bits are just about the right size to fit under the lid and I had intended the base to be nailed “inside” them. So for no particular reason (apart from not wanting to cut or plane the side/end bits any more) I thought I’d plane a rebate for the base to fit into. So I nailed a bit of batten along the edge of the “side bits”;





and had a go with the handy No 311;





However I did notice that the rebate was not particularly square across the bottom and wondered if it was due to the blade(iron) not coming out of the slot square;





I re-sharpened the iron twice, but it was still on the p**s (Positional Instability Sloping Situation) and I think it’s because the bed for the iron is actually machined with the Positional Instability problem. I also noticed that I was not holding the plane particularly square either, so who knows, so I gave up and came in.


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## MickCheese (4 Oct 2013)

Fantastic write-up. Really enjoyed reading this. Actually had me laughing out loud in parts

Your toolbox looks wonderful.

Well done and you must keep up the WIPs.

Mick


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## powertools (4 Oct 2013)

That has been the best WIP thread that I have ever followed. I have looked forward to updates and thank you for the time spent in posting it.


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## RossJarvis (4 Oct 2013)

Thankyou Mick and Powertools, it's great to get such nice support


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## RossJarvis (5 Oct 2013)

Hmmm, Hrrmmmph. I can truly say it’s been one of those days of ups and downs, I think the downs won though.

I was going to finish the rebates for the sides of the chisel tray. Remembering there was a “Positional” issue with the shoulder plane iron, I thought I’d see if I could re-sharpen it and be third time lucky. First of all I checked if my water-stones were flat. Nope, so I used the high-tech flattening system. One; draw pencil lines across the stone;





…two; prepare flattening station, here I’m pouring water on the concrete flag-stone in the “workshop”;





….three; rub it up and down and round and round, till you remove the pencil marks;





…check with a straight edge in all directions, if flat, sharpen plane iron;





General improvement and it’s now slightly cock-eyed to the other side. Anyway, it worked, however it takes a long time and many cups of tea to make this many rebates;





..it was actually sharp enough to go through a knot with no real problems;





Nextly I noticed the lid to the tool-box had wedged itself shut, The wood’ s been moving a fair bit and I think it’s sucked up a fair bit of humidity (rain?) from the air. Having gently removed the lid with a block of wood and a framing hammer, I bevelled the edges which seemed to resolve the problem;





You might see that not only has the wood got fatter, it also cupped despite the batten across it. Following this, I ripped and trimmed some board to make the base of the tray,cut the sides to length, glued and pinned them on and checked the ends for fit. These needed side “rebates” so out with Mr 311 again;





shhhmm, shhhmm, shhhm, Pare with a chisel;





bash bang ‘ouch’ and;





Woopsie, that’s a pin which went 90 degrees round a corner and out again;






…and there we go, nearly there. I was feeling tired, the light was about to fade so I thought I’d pack away, then;





…that’s what happens when you try to stick your water-stones away, on top of the fridge-freezer, without turning the light on in the larder. B****r, B******s, ****!!!. That’s a brand new stone, ordered from Japan, that I only got three weeks ago. T**s, B*****y and B******s. I think I’m going to have to use that for sharpening the nail scissors from now on, S**t.

TTFN.


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## dm65 (6 Oct 2013)

Disaster - gutted for you


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## RossJarvis (6 Oct 2013)

dm65":1d3zfzi9 said:


> Disaster - gutted for you



Thanks for the sympathy Den  

(love your signature by the way :lol: )


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## Graham Orm (6 Oct 2013)

Try gluing it then flatten it. You'll have to research for a glue, maybe araldite? I remember working on a job where I installed a bath with a marble rim around the top. When the marble arrived (from Spain) packaged between 2 sheets of 1" ply it was broken in 2 places, I employed a monumental mason to repair it. He glued it and after an hour it was as strong as the marble and looked like a vein in the marble. Don't know what he used.

This was for an Arab guy who at the time was a director at Man United. The job was in Cheshire, about 20 years ago. He was very low profile and unbelievably wealthy. Believe it or not he got into trouble with an American casino and was taken to court in the UK. This forced his resignation from Old Trafford.

Needless to say the glue up of the marble had to be good, and last. I live quite close to the house where I did the work, since he moved it's been gutted, and no doubt the bath has gone too.


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## RossJarvis (6 Oct 2013)

Grayorm":3j6o0m6o said:


> Try gluing it then flatten it. You'll have to research for a glue, maybe araldite? I remember working on a job where I installed a bath with a marble rim around the top. When the marble arrived (from Spain) packaged between 2 sheets of 1" ply it was broken in 2 places, I employed a monumental mason to repair it. He glued it and after an hour it was as strong as the marble and looked like a vein in the marble. Don't know what he used.



Thanks Grayorm  

I was thinking along these lines myself, possibly "aralditing" it together and to a tile to keep flat (maybe you can recommend a good brand!). Nice looking job, when you said kitchen fitter I hadn't quite realised.....

I always wondered what a monumental mason looks like, I have visions of a 7 foot 30 stone chap in a leather apron, with one trouser leg rolled up and funny handshakes.


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## Graham Orm (6 Oct 2013)

Yes that was him, you are spot on :lol: Any tile will do as you are going to flatten the surface you will use to sharpen on. You'll need a glue thin enough so as not to create too big a gap where the joint is. As I said do some digging on google. I'd put a piece of paper between the stone and the tile so you don't glue the stone to the tile as well. I wouldn't stick it to the tile as well......although maybe.

Thanks, I do bathrooms and kitchens, this was by far the most exotic I've done. The bath was in the bedroom suite!!


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## Racers (7 Oct 2013)

Hi Ross

I have a 6000 grit waterstone glued back together with superglue, it works fine.

If it fits together well give it a go, you have nothing to lose, make sure its dry before you glue it.

Pete


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## RossJarvis (8 Oct 2013)

Very little to report so far. Motivation levels are at a low ebb, not helped by having 35quids worth of stone commit Hari-Kiri. The edges of the cracks have crumbled too much for a glue-back-together exercise so it’s now relegated to the kitchen knife and axe department.

The other end cap for the tray was suffering from a little too enthusiastic paring so was suffering from a Positional Instability Slope Situation :roll: ;





so I inserted a bit of angled wood shim;





…threw some glue at it and bashed some pins in (hammer) ;





Even though all the side and end bits were supposed to be uniform in width etc, there’s a fair amount of not-quite-the –right-size-when-put-together-ness but nothing that a pass or two with a plane or flame-thrower won’t solve. I shall return if motivation picks up, really shouldn’t take too long to finish this, should it :| ?


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## dm65 (8 Oct 2013)

if you're stone's new edge's are too rough to glue up, grind them on your workshop floor until the edge's meet - stone won't be as long as it was but it'll be longer than it is now 

on the subject of motivation, I think you're approaching this wrong - you should be a writer (thinking Terry Pratchettesq) with woodwork as your subject

your style reminds me of him in his earlier, funnier days and where Rincewind had the luggage as a companion, you have the apprentice !

exactly how many legs does the apprentice have by the way ?


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## dm65 (8 Oct 2013)

oh, and the only thing I see wrong with your toolbox is that you didn't wipe the glue off


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## RossJarvis (9 Oct 2013)

Thanks Den

Grinding the stone seems like a good idea, must give it a try.

I have to admit, I've probably read more Pratchett than was good for me, so he probably is an influence :lol: 

Thanks for the encouragement, you've now got me thinking of writing a book called "Zen and the art of how not to make Japanese stuff with Japanese Tools", which alludes to making things from wood and generally covers as many Double, Triple and Quadruple Entendres as I can come up with :twisted:. (Currently the motivational issues are due to "employment issues" not the toolbox, which is serving to keep me sane(ish))

The apprentice seems to have more than two legs, but is useless at carrying anything :roll: .


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## RossJarvis (11 Oct 2013)

Once again not a lot of progress. The Hampshire Monsoon started at lunch time, but at least Hurricanes Hardly Ever Happen Round here (or so they say). However, I did finish the main body of the tray;









that’s the detail of the b********d corner (Den, hopefully you’ll notice that the glue was wiped off at some stage!). I put a couple of strips of quadrant in, wot I found hiding in the outhouse, this’ll support the tray;





…and luckily the tray fits in;





….I’m sure I don’t need to show you the spacer I had to fit in to stop the tray falling through due to miscockulation on the width of it! We’ll take it as read that that was “planned”.

…one hand braided handle later;





……. and I think we’re on the final straight. Must admit, it’s getting a bit heavy now, not sure if I’ll be able to pick it up with tools in it, but we can’t have everything can we?


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## Paul Chapman (11 Oct 2013)

RossJarvis":37eci4xx said:


> Must admit, it’s getting a bit heavy now, not sure if I’ll be able to pick it up with tools in it, but we can’t have everything can we?



You could always put wheels on it :-k :lol: 

Looking good.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## RossJarvis (11 Oct 2013)

Paul Chapman":2zca3ha0 said:


> You could always put wheels on it :-k :lol:
> 
> Looking good.
> 
> ...



Don't think I haven't thought of that, the other option is four wagon wheels and a harness for the "apprentice"


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## dm65 (11 Oct 2013)

RossJarvis":2p95hqs9 said:


> Paul Chapman":2p95hqs9 said:
> 
> 
> > You could always put wheels on it :-k :lol:
> ...


My 'pprentices eat wagon wheels

How about lots of little legs ? :wink:


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## RossJarvis (11 Oct 2013)

dm65":2nuhkas0 said:


> RossJarvis":2nuhkas0 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul Chapman":2nuhkas0 said:
> ...



   

I've emailed Rincewind and I'm rather hoping that lots of little legs will appear quite soon, hopefully the box will be able to store all my tools, clothing for a long trip abroad and eat anyone who displeases me (I can think of several at my place of employment now! :twisted: :twisted: ). Next thing I need to do is work out how to attach it to the motorbike :shock:


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

Hennyway, a few days ago this appeared in the hallway;





I believe it is some form of sisal twine. Somehow SWMBO had been prescient and realised I’d need some form of handles for the toolbox and provided the aforementioned. I had been thinking of various clever ways of making a handle for the chisel tray, toying with articulated ebony swivels, self-locking iron handles, specially routed lengths of pine etc. etc. etc. But the obvious and most simple solution was;





….braided twine. Simple, minimalist, natural, ecologically friendly, vegan and carbon neutral(ish). So braid, braid, braid and;





two tray handles, to match;





…two box handles. 

Strangely enough the beloved came home this evening, obviously having had a brain-storm and forgetting her original revelation to say “Have you seen the string I got for work? What’s that, what are you doing with my string!!!”


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## Graham Orm (12 Oct 2013)

Is that bowl catching a drip from the radiator or is it the dog's? ....or both? :lol: The box is looking good now, let's see some tools in it!


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

Grayorm":1bi8wql1 said:


> Is that bowl catching a drip from the radiator or is it the dog's? ....or both? :lol: The box is looking good now, let's see some tools in it!



Cheers Grayorm  

Interesting you should spot that! The bowl does belong to the "apprentice's" aunty. She noses it around searching drips here and searching them there. I bashed that valve with the vacuum a few Christmas eves ago #-o  and had to replace it and reconnect it with a combination of four soldered elbows. Had to drain and refill the entire system 3 times before I stopped the flipping leak! Anything to not have to pay a plumber Christmas rates!

The tools will be moving in hopefully very soon, but I want to put in a few dividers and so on, to tidy it all up and stop stuff rolling around.


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## Random Orbital Bob (12 Oct 2013)

Shouldn't it have one large over riding handle (wooden) that follows its length, central and curved, so you can pick it up single handed?


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

Random Orbital Bob":39nx6hnv said:


> Shouldn't it have one large over riding handle (wooden) that follows its length, central and curved, so you can pick it up single handed?



That had been somewhere in the original plan, however I changed my mind, thinking that additional string linking the two end handles would do the same job, be lighter and was easier to do during heavy rain. Additionally there's no clearance between the sides of the box and the lid, giving less than 2 inches to get your hand in. I had thought of a swivelling handle, but gave up due to the ease of working and flexibility of string!


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## Graham Orm (12 Oct 2013)

RossJarvis":7z7bn2m0 said:


> Random Orbital Bob":7z7bn2m0 said:
> 
> 
> > Shouldn't it have one large over riding handle (wooden) that follows its length, central and curved, so you can pick it up single handed?
> ...



If you're going to go down the long string right across route thread some 22mm pipe (pref plastic) on for a grip or the string will hurt if you carry any weight......There see how I think of you.


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

Grayorm":9kj3yn2z said:


> If you're going to go down the long string right across route thread some 22mm pipe (pref plastic) on for a grip or the string will hurt if you carry any weight......There see how I think of you.



 Thanks Grayorm, it's nice to know someone cares.

Now that is a good idea =D> It had crossed my mind that the string handle may hurt and I'd unsuccessfully wracked the old noggin for some sort of protector. I think from now on I shall let you do the thinking for me :idea: It'd save a fortune in tea and Hob-nobs!


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## Woodturner1972 (12 Oct 2013)

What a fantastic read :lol: had me laughing out loud. Can't wait until your next project!! =D>


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

Well then, crumbs. Somehow, without really thinking about it, I seem to have finished. Not sure how that happened but I’ll not complain. First of all I bashed some pins into some odd bits and quadrant to make a divider for the saws and little wotsits to hold the planes in place;





Then I realised I could start putting things in it;





..a couple of planes;





…6 saws and;





..before I knew it I was bunging all sorts of stuff in. Then I bashed a bit of quadrant and a bit of scrap in the tray to keep the chisels in one place and;





…lookee here, a double decker “more room up top, move along the bus please!”. Finally here’s a shot with all the tools used;





The battery drill and anything to the right are luxuries which weren’t really essential, plus I could have got away with using only one plane, so you don’t really need all that many tools.

Thanks for watching and all the support. I’m thinking of getting the two bits of rough cut oak out for the next project. Might chat again.


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## dm65 (12 Oct 2013)

Proper job that - holds tools and everything

As a final touch, I think you should paint, burn, scratch or crayon the following on your box - 荷物

Translates to 'the luggage' according to google (but you might not want to get it tattooed


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## RossJarvis (12 Oct 2013)

dm65":1f846nob said:


> Proper job that - holds tools and everything
> 
> As a final touch, I think you should paint, burn, scratch or crayon the following on your box - 荷物
> 
> Translates to 'the luggage' according to google (but you might not want to get it tattooed



Thanks for the hint Den, now that, I am seriously considering to do


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## Paul Chapman (12 Oct 2013)

Great job, Ross - turned out really well =D> 

Looking forward to the further adventures of you and your apprentice.......  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## mseries (12 Oct 2013)

That's great.


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## RossJarvis (13 Oct 2013)

If anyone's interested in Japanese toolbox creation and other stuff, I've just come across the following site, lots of pictures.

http://www.daikudojo.org/Classes/toolboxes/


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## Woodchips2 (14 Oct 2013)

Well done Ross and thanks for an entertaining read. Also shows what can be achieved with the minimum of hand tools and innovative al-fresco workshop.

You might wish to consider syphoning off some of the Hob-nobs money into a 'Truss Fund' because the weight of the box with all those tools could give you a hernia :roll: 

Regards Keith


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## RossJarvis (14 Oct 2013)

The Eriba Turner":367z6sl8 said:


> Well done Ross and thanks for an entertaining read. Also shows what can be achieved with the minimum of hand tools and innovative al-fresco workshop.
> 
> You might wish to consider syphoning off some of the Hob-nobs money into a 'Truss Fund' because the weight of the box with all those tools could give you a hernia :roll:
> 
> Regards Keith



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Thanks for the comments Keith. Running in and out with the tool-box today, between showers, has got me thinking of making a quarter scale model of the Hindenburg and filling it with Helium and attaching it to the handles.


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## No skills (14 Oct 2013)

Wood work and macramé in one thread, informative or what!

Perhaps some sort of Japanese sack barrow is the next project, would aid in moving the tool box.

Well done on another great thread.


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## Random Orbital Bob (15 Oct 2013)

You are a natural comedic writer Ross. Well done on another well improvised project


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## RossJarvis (15 Oct 2013)

Thanks for the kind comments Bob and No Skills  

Hmmm, sack barrow, now that's an idea.


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