# Tambour cabinet



## gasman

'Morning all
Its been a long long time since I did a work in progress on UKW but I have wanted for a long time to make a tambour cabinet / sideboard for our home...
I wrote to Richard Jones of this parish who made the Torpedore cabinet which I admired for a very long time and kept returning to. He very kindly replied with encouraging words and advice but I then found Poritz Studios over in New York State who make amazing tambour-based furniture with the tambour slats on the outside of the piece rather than the inside. This is the piece which I saw and had the 'wow' factor I wanted...





I made a writing slope recently which had a tambour section concealing where the pens are kept which helped get the concept of small tambour slats and how to make them slide easily




So I have designed a sideboard with design elements of both Richard Jones' and Poritz's cabinets in it.
Here is my rough design sketch showing where I have got so far




The tambour slats will be made from 9mm marine ply with Spanish walnut veneer on the outside and ABW walnut veneer on the inside making them about 10.5mm thick. Each slat will be 15 or so mm wide and about 450mm long on a canvas backing. They will run top and bottom on a 3mm wide brass strip which will run in a 3mm wide groove cut into the top of the slats. The brass strip will be glued into a 3mm slot cut into the top and bottom of the cabinet. The whole of the top and bottom will be ABW with the interior - drawers and cupboard sections - in maple.
Although the membership of this site has changed considerably since the days 10 or so years ago when I did regular WIPs, I still find this site immensely valuable for the insight and advice which the members give. I feel this project is going to generate some tricky problems to solve so I am looking forward to your wise counsel. Thanks guys. Mark


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## powertools

Looking forward to following this.


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## Droogs

me 2


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## John15

Hi Gasman,
All the best with this very elegant project. Good furniture making subjects are fairly uncommon here now, particularly in the past year where the Joke and General Off Topic sections are taking up a huge amount of space - previously they were only occasionly seen.

John


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## --Tom--

Really interested to see a WIP for this, always been interested in tambours and how they are done.


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## EddyCurrent

I would urge you to use birch plywood rather than marine. Any marine plywood I've used has been very rough and ready compared to birch ply.

Large tambour gaps at the corners detract somewhat but would be difficult (impossible ?) to eliminate using the canvas backing method.


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## gasman

EddyCurrent said:


> I would urge you to use birch plywood rather than marine. Any marine plywood I've used has been very rough and ready compared to birch ply.
> 
> Large tambour gaps at the corners detract somewhat but would be difficult (impossible ?) to eliminate using the canvas backing method.


Thanks Eddy for your advice. The problem with the birch ply would be how pale it was - As the tambours go round the corners, you see the gaps opening up slightly and I want it to look dark, not light, in the inside. I was going to go to Powells in Oxford on Monday to have a looksee at all their plywood


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## Inspector

I like tambours too so look forward to your WIP. 

I would do the tambour ends a touch differently myself by cutting the slat tips to run in the grooves without the brass. If you made a tongue offset to be flush on the inside the groove would be back from the edge a little more and be simpler to make. I used Bruynzeel plywood on a friends boat a long time ago and it was the nicest plywood I have ever played with. Bruynzeel Marine Plywood is the Perfect for Boat Builders plywood It would be my choice too. Are you going to veneer the plywood first and then saw them into strips or cut the slats first and lay them on the veneer and cut through the veneer with a knife between the slats? I haven't tried it but the second method, if successful, would loose virtually none of the pattern.

Pete


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## Sgian Dubh

I think I'd use solid walnut for the staves, or some other darkish wood cheaper than walnut, somewhere between 16 to 20 mm wide by ~12 mm thick, and maybe 30 - 50 mm longer than you need. When they're made I'd set up a base board with a square framework on its face to hold the staves square, but with a thin spacer of about 0.5 - 1 mm thick between each stave: plastic U shaped cabinet levelling spacers might work, or strips of balancing high pressure laminate. Then apply your veneer. With the spacer between each stave that would give you enough room to knife the veneer between to separate them out again. Clean up the edges with, e.g., a plane, scraper and abrasive paper. 

Next, cut the staves to the required length. The next bit is just one method of working a tongue through rejigging the base board to trap the staves (without the spacers used earlier) again and set up a router to work a tongue: as mentioned, you could find other ways to make the tongue. Make the tongue 6 mm thick to fit in a matching slightly wider groove in the cabinet top and bottom. Make the tongue at the bottom end of the staves about 1 mm longer than the depth of the groove in the cabinet bottom. The idea is that the end of the tongues carries the weight of the tambour on the bottom of the groove, not the shoulder of stave tongues rubbing on the visible top face of the cabinet bottom. 

Apart from removing the plywood from the construction, this methodology eliminates the thin brass, which being thin will tend to want to wear a deeper groove than a wider wooden tongue, i.e., the same weight on a smaller bearing surface equals more pounds per square inch. The canvas on the back face of the tambour should act as a balancing veneer. Slainte.


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## EddyCurrent

gasman said:


> Thanks Eddy for your advice. The problem with the birch ply would be how pale it was - As the tambours go round the corners, you see the gaps opening up slightly and I want it to look dark, not light, in the inside. I was going to go to Powells in Oxford on Monday to have a looksee at all their plywood



Yes I realised that, I was assuming there would be a matching stain applied to it, or black would look nice.
As Sgian Dubh said, I would maybe tend towards using solid wood slats, possibly laminating two pieces together.


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## gasman

Thanks all for your helpful comments. I am going to make up a 'trial tambour' and see how it all looks. I have a thin, very sharp CMT blade for my tablesaw with a kerf of only 1.6mm and I had thought I would vacuum veneer the whole sheet on both sides and then cut 16mm strips of it when it was completely dry on the table saw - rather than veneering individual slats - but I might try both methods. I am worried the highly figured veneer on the front would be tricky to avoid 'chips' when cutting the slats apart if I veneered them individually as suggested but I will have a look at both methods. Lots to think about. Thanks again. Mark


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## recipio

The main feature of the Poritz piece is the figured grain running horizontally. I'm pretty sure they used a paper backed veneer which is available in the US in 8x4 sheets. Using conventional veneer the grain would want to be vertical for ease of cutting and that is going to be a challenge. Not too sure what the advantage of brass is - I had a lot of trouble with the one and only tambour I made, getting the flat tenon ends to run around the radiused groove and vowed to use dowels next time.


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## Droogs

For cutting the slats after you have veneered the board, i would suggest using a scrollsaw with a #2 blade with a guide-fence set at the required width and just take it slow. That way you minimise the kerf loss and also if you run veneer tape along where each cut is going to be, the chance of cracking or splintering. It is how i intend to make the final slats for my tambour for this project. Then a very light plane or sand of the edges if needed


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## gregmcateer

Droogs said:


> me 2


Me 3


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## gasman

Ive had a bit of a ply over the weekend and mocked up a corner to see how it looks:
I took a piece of 9mm birch ply and veneered it both sides using some leftover burr walnut. I routed a 3mm slot in either end then sliced it up on the table saw into 20mm slats and cleaned up the edges. It came out quite well I think - and I think the pattern is not adversely affected by the removal of 1.6mm. I think these slats are too wide - so I will try 16mm next time.
This has really highlighted to me how I either need dark wood for the slats or need to stain the gaps
The mocked up section of cabinet is just made from 18mm mdf. I routed a 3mm slot in the end pieces and then used old sheets of veneer to build up 5 thicknesses and make a 3.25mm thick rail for the tambour to run on













Sorry about the quality of the first image - it actually looks fine.
I completely agree with Richard's point about the rail needing to be wider than the depth of the slot in the slats so that the rail runs on the top of the rail. I am having second thought on the brass - I thought I had seen a Poritz tambour done with brass but I can't find that now. So next stage is to mock up a routed groove rather than a rail and reassemble the model like that
Thanks as always for helpful comments and criticism
Mark


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## Droogs

For the tambour groove I recommend using this stuff. I first create an oversized groove in the side piece and then inlay UHMWPE and then route the path for the tambour in the plastic. It gives a very smooth and non sticky maintenance free action and is very hard wearing

edit typos


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## gasman

Thanks but wouldn’t that mean that you could see plastic when the tambour was opened?? That wouldn’t work I think


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## Nelly111s

I guy I follow on Instagram, Phillip Morley (English, now in US) has just made a tambour cabinet with the tambour on the outside. I think there's some WIP shots on his feed. I contacted him once and he replied, so he may be able to help you.
Here's a link to his stuff Phillip Morley


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## Droogs

gasman said:


> Thanks but wouldn’t that mean that you could see plastic when the tambour was opened?? That wouldn’t work I think


Depends on where you position the track and if your design does not have a lip or frame at the front.


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## recipio

Tricky things tambours. ! Narrow slats open less in a radiused groove than wide slats so the V shaped gap is also less. I would think at the very minimum you should make the slats out of a dark wood like walnut. Another trick is to machine the edges with radiused and concave profiles so they both interlock and have no gaps. Lastly look at the Armana tambour making set of router bits - pricey but you only have to cry once


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## Droogs

Is that the interlocking hip joint bit set kind of thing? The problem with them is that they do not allow for a smooth flat surface when the tambour is closed. They leave both a gap and a radiused edge to both edges of the slat.


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## gasman

Nelly111s said:


> I guy I follow on Instagram, Phillip Morley (English, now in US) has just made a tambour cabinet with the tambour on the outside. I think there's some WIP shots on his feed. I contacted him once and he replied, so he may be able to help you.
> Here's a link to his stuff Phillip Morley


Thanks Neil very much for that link to Philip Morley - he makes some nice stuff
That tambour wall cabinet is interesting but the tambours run inside the cabinet not outside. It looks like he cut all those slats in solid hardwood, then shaped the ends of all of them, then glued veneer on to the front of each, before splitting off very carefully each one with a sharp blade. It looks like he might have had a total of 40 slats for both sides - and I got the impression from the feed that it was a hassle. The problem I have is that I will have 5 times that number of slats. There are 2 tambours, each needing to be 1600mm long - so with >100 slats in each.Im not sure I am patient enough to do everyone individually like he did. I have got a piece of marine plywood to play with now so will see how that looks
Thanks recipio for the cutter suggestion. I have seen those before but I don't think they will work with a veneered slat like I want - you would presumably have to cut away yet more of the veneer on the convex surface


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## Inspector

When in my early 20s I was working in my fathers repair and refinishing business and an unusual roll top desk came in. It had a layered construction for the tambours. The slats were made of a plain wood glued to the back of the canvas and beveled to travel in the curved slots. The show veneer was glued to the front of the canvas, dark I think. So a slat, canvas, veneer sandwich. I can't remember if the veneer was solid or a thin plywood but it was only at most 2 mm thick. It gave a relatively smooth surface on both inside and outside curves and showed off the Rosewood nicely without gaps. This was the 4th type of tabour I saw come through there. The others being slat on canvas, fine cable through holes in the slats and the interlocking ball and socket type already mentioned.

Pete


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## gasman

Thanks Pete
I would be concerned about this flimsy Spanish walnut veneer that I have already bought being attached directly to canvas - I think it needs to be on solid wood or plywood
My maths not so good - the two tambours will be 1000mm long not 1600 - so about 130 slats in total but still alot!


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## Cabinetman

I don’t want to be thought of as P..... in the soup, but have you considered how much force you’re going to need to push 1000 mm of wood around a groove like that? I’m glad it’s not 1600 or I think you would’ve really had a problem. Ian


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## Inspector

A friend of mine made a stereo cabinet about 6 feet long, almost 2 metres, that was two record albums high. The tambours met in the middle and don't take much effort to slide open and close. Paraffin wax the ends of the tambours and groove and they slide fine. I made the mistake with my first tamboured cabinet for wine with the tambours horizontal. Lift it a little past half way and gravity took over and flipped it open with a scary bang.  My next one was horizontal. ☺ I can post a couple pictures of the first but don't have any of the second if wanted.

Pete


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## recipio

Droogs said:


> Is that the interlocking hip joint bit set kind of thing? The problem with them is that they do not allow for a smooth flat surface when the tambour is closed. They leave both a gap and a radiused edge to both edges of the slat.


The Armana bits ? I agree they are OK for a Rolltop desk but not for the Porritz type cabinet. They also seem to fit totally into a groove with no tenons so will ride on the base of the groove. Not that I've got a set.


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## gasman

So more experimentation - I glued up a piece of 9mm marine ply and cut that up - and to be honest it is so obvious in the gaps because of the inherent 'stripiness' of plywood. It also was rough and not possible to plane very smoothly. Then I tried a piece of 10mm teak and glued veneer to that - but I did it by glueing the individual pieces to the veneer - using a thin payer of plastic between adjacent pieces. It worked so well - the plastic came out easy when the glue was dry and then with a new scalpel blade it was very easy to cut the veneer between adjacent pieces and separate the slats




I put a coat of osmo on it including the wood in the gaps and it looked so much better - so this is how I am doing the slats - just need to perfect how to mount the tambour now


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## Inspector

Pre-cut the tabs on the end of each slat and line everything in a glueing frame, holding the slats together and down along the edges with a board and screws, then glue the canvas on, holding back from the tabs a touch. Once the canvas is glued and dry you can take a sharp knife and score through the canvas and peel off the waste. If the slats are tight together and you don't go crazy with glue they won't stick together.

Pete

I'm not wild about seeing the plywood layers in the open slats and would consider solid wood for the slats in that area.


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> Then I tried a piece of 10mm teak and glued veneer to that - but I did it by glueing the individual pieces to the veneer - using a thin payer of plastic between adjacent pieces. It worked so well - the plastic came out easy when the glue was dry and then with a new scalpel blade it was very easy to cut the veneer between adjacent pieces and separate the slats


Hmm? It looks like you're moving to a methodology very similar to that which I suggested in my first post, i.e., set out staves held square on a base board and veneer the whole surface as if it's one panel. The reason I suggested it was because I'd employed it myself, not for making tambour staves, but for making stacked doors for various tall units, e.g., wardrobes or closets in which two or three veneered doors one above the other sat alongside full length doors where the veneer's long grain of all the door ran vertically. I've also used the same technique where drawer fronts stacked one above the other, again with the veneer's grain running vertically. In these instances cutting the veneer between the panels after glue-up meant knifing across the grain (easily done with care), which I suspect is what you'll do because as I read it you plan to have you're long veneer grain running horizontally.

I still think your staves need to be 12 mm or greater thick, especially if your plan is to cut a slot at each end of the staves to accommodate a brass bar set into a matching groove, curved at two corners, in the top and base of the cabinet. And again, I do somewhat question the wisdom of using 3 mm thick brass for this because of the greater wear factor compared to thicker material, e.g., 6 mm thick brass. But if you used 6 mm brass you'd also need to increase the thickness of the staves so that the slots at the stave ends didn't leave too fragile a tongue on both the inside and outside faces: thicker staves equals more weight which is undesirable. Of course you could, as I suggested, work a 6 mm tongue on the end of each stave to run in a top and bottom groove. Both methods for carrying the tambour around corners will work, so it's just a case of getting the balance between aesthetics and practicality right. Slainte.


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## Sgian Dubh

Inspector said:


> I made the mistake with my first tamboured cabinet for wine with the tambours horizontal. Lift it a little past half way and gravity took over and flipped it open with a scary bang.


That configuration is similar to the drinks cabinet below. I anticipated the gravity problem you described and built in a hidden pair of sprung loaded pistons or rods at either end hidden at the back to engage with the last stave of the tambour as it opened. It cushioned the opening of the tambour as it approached fully open, and provided just enough upward lift at closure that little or no effort was required in the first 200 mm or so of travel. Actually, it still works effectively. I know because I made the piece for my parents early in my career out material that came off their property, and then it came back to me after they'd both died. Don't be fooled by the date on the photographs - I simply had the opportunity to photograph the piece again nearly thirty years after I built it, ha, ha. Slainte.


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## Inspector

Nicely done. I should have used a counterweight or spring of some sort but it was a first for me and I didn't have much room behind to fit it anyway. The next was nicer and solved the problem with the tambour sliding side to side.

In the third picture you can see the tabs on the slats are offset to the back of the tambour slats to bring it more to the front. To make the slats I had several white oak boards, planed to size. I then jointed both edges and ripped off the two slats on the table saw and repeated until I had enough plus a few spares. Both machines were left running while I switched back and forth. It was the easiest way to get clean faces and edges while handling larger stock. I could have done the sanding and edge breaking before cutting for the same reasons. The sawn faces got the canvas glued to them. This one was made about 40 years ago and my buddy has it. He sent me the pictures three years ago.

Pete


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## Sgian Dubh

Inspector said:


> Nicely done. I should have used a counterweight or spring of some sort but it was a first for me and I didn't have much room behind to fit it anyway. The next was nicer and solved the problem with the tambour sliding side to side.


That's an attractive cabinet. I can see how that tambour could possibly take off and crash to its fully open position, and then be heavy at the early stage of closing. Apart from counterweights or springs to alleviate the problem I'm aware of pulley systems using springs and wire that spans and crosses the width of the cabinet to help with vertically moving tambours. Unfortunately I can't recall exactly how that sort of system is configured, but it, along with the potential solutions you mentioned might have been appropriate if you'd had enough space at the back to work one of those solutions into the construction. 

We all live and learn; I've never got to the point where I can anticipate and avoid all errors of judgement or mistakes. I screw up far less often than I used to though, ha, ha. Slainte.


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## gasman

Thanks both of you for your various replies - had a busy week so not much done in the workshop this week. However, I glued up 8 slats with veneer on solid wood and rebated the veneer sides of both ends to create a tongue on the end of each slat to run in a groove on the cabinet as suggested by you both. 
I did some basic geometry to work out how wide the groove needed to be based on the variables of the radius of curvature of the corner of the cabinet and the width of each tongue. Eventually after some trial and error, I worked out with a radius of curvature of the corners of 60mm, and by shortening the woods of each tongue to 12mm, the groove would only need to be 0.5mm wider than the thickness of the tongue.



Anyway it all worked out OK and I then had a trial cabinet which slid reasonably even without any finish or wax on the tambour or groove.



So having decided on 60mm radius of curvature of the corners, and with a final cabinet size of 400 deep x 1200mm wide, that means that the width of the veneered MDF sections of the top and bottom is 400 - 2 x 60 = 280mm, and the length is 1200 - 2x60 = 1080mm.
I cut 2 pieces of 18mm MDF 1080 x 280 and then made up a quarter-matched veneer of burr walnut veneers that size. I'm sure the purists will be horrified that this is actually made up from 8 leaves of veneer as none of my veneers were long enough to do it in only 4 sections. However, I think the joins will be hard to see and it will look bookmatched. I will see how it looks when it comes out of the vacuum bag later. Cheers


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## Droogs

hope all goes well


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## gasman

It's been slow going. Work, family stuff etc etc
However finally some progress this week...
I finished veneering the 2 MDF boards making up the centre part of the top and bottom of the cabinet. Only the top has the quarter matched burr walnut - the other side of the top and the two faces of the bottom are plain straight-grained walnut veneer








Then started thinking about the base and I made several versions of the base in scrap pine to try and get the right proportions for the 4 corner pieces and rails. I finally settled on this - there is a 60mm radius curve on the outside of the corner to match the curve of the tambour going round the corners - and 50mm rails with curves to soften the corners. It is similar to the Poritz piece I showed the photo of earlier.




The nicest piece of walnut was this piece which measured 120 x 40 x 1000mm and I realised if I was careful I could get all four legs out of it - but it was a bit of a struggle and made things harder I think. SO here it is cut in half - then each of these was just long enough to get two legs out of.




The 60mm radius curves I had to shape by hand plane and then sand to final shape. 



The inside curved surfaces of the legs were done on the bandsaw then planed / sanded / scraped to size. The legs taper very slightly down to the bottom where the curved surface is 50mm wide. It all worked out reasonably and I ended up with 4 legs roughly cut to size



Finally last night I tidied up one of the legs using a drum sander and hand plane




I apologise for taking so long but I think this will take weeks and weeks to do as Im having to make it up as I go along.
Cheers Mark


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## Fitzroy

I saw this thread at the start but only just dropped back into it. What a great read, really interesting and well documented to see your thought process and the evolution of the piece. Brilliant work, looking great and keep going can’t wait to see the progress.
Fitz.


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## gasman

I made more progress over the weekend.
finished the four legs




Then started on the rails...
These are 32x50 section walnut but the ends need to be 60mm deep to match the the curved section of the corner piece. So for the shorter end pieces I did these by making them 60x32 and cutting them on the bandsaw. Then I domino’d the joint and clamped it up




Then I started cleaning up the curves with rasp, scraper, gouges and sandpaper




It says I’ve run out of space for images so I’ll continue in the next
Cheers Mark


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## gasman

After finishing the ends I started work on the sides and cheated a bit because I cut and glued small pieces of grain matched walnut to complete the corner curves so that I could cut the long rails at 32x50 rather than 32x60. Glued and clamped it all up then spent a good whole cleaning up those corner curves











so that was my back done in for now
More later cheers Mark


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## gasman

Next instalment... I added corner braces to the frame to strengthen it as the 2 x 10mm domino in each corner joint would be under considerable stress



Then started work on the mitred edge pieces for the top and bottom part of the cabinet. I cut them roughly on the table saw then tidied up on the shooting board




The side pieces were attached with 5mm dominoes. 




I always find glue ups a bit frantic but this wasn't too bad




Same for the top of the cabinet - here's the trial clamping to check all the mitre joints are tight enough




So I went ahead and glued the top up as well




I decided the top needed a crisp black line around the burr walnut centre piece. This was 2.7mm ebony inlaid into a 2.7mm router-cut slot




Last job of the day was to trim the corners roughly to a 60mm radius to fit with the corners of the base unit. They will be trimmed in due course with a flush-trim router bit when it arrives!




So... I feel like I have 2 major parts left to do - first the tambours and the grooves in the top and bottom for them - and second the central cabinet. Both have tricky aspects in my opinion. The tambours are going to be fiddly to make obviously - but I have to decide whether to rebate the edges of the top and bottom parts of the cabinet (which are a fraction over 19mm thick at the moment) so that only 10mm of top or bottom are visible from the side - this is my preferred option as I think 19mm will look too chunky but it makes the groove for the tambours harder to cut as it must be much deeper and I don't have a CNC machine so it will have to be done sequentially, a little deeper each pass with a router using a 2-point fence to go round the corners. That creates lots of opportunities for me to c**k it up
The central cabinet also has its problems - in particular whether to make it standalone - ie with top, bottom, sides and back - and then attach the veneered top and bottom I have already made to it - or whether to just make the sides and back of the drawer cabinet and use the top and bottom I have already made as the top and bottom if that makes sense? This has advantages - it will make the whole thing lighter, create more space inside and save me wood - but it will obviously be harder to locate accurately and to attach the sides and back to the veneered top and bottom respectively
Thanks for looking and always happy to receive comments or criticism
Cheers 
Mark


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## recipio

Nice work. For the one and only tambour I ever made I used 'Leatherette' to glue the tambours on with the faux leather exposed. I simply couldn't find canvas at the time and I must say after 20 years it is faultless. No splits or cracks. I used PVA glue but I see our American cousins advocate hide glue. How is the project going ?


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## gasman

Thanks for asking
I am still trying to solve my two problems I talked about in my last post. Yesterday I made a trial mitred corner out of 18 x 60mm walnut and tried using my brand new 6mm spiral router cutter to cut round the corner as it were - using a 2-point fence - and unfortunately it is too hard to control going round the corner to ensure I won't take a divot out and cock the whole thing up. The problem is that the two points need to be close together - only 20mm or less apart - or the thickness of the surface 'outside' the rebate increases significantly as you go round the corner. Having the points close together makes it less stable and harder to control. I also think I would need more than one pass as I want the groove to be 5mm deep and I don't think they are 100% reproducible like that. So I think for that problem I am going to do the straights and the rounded corners of the top and bottom separately. The straights I will do with a router fence. For the corners I think I will use an old ellipse jig I have to mount the router, put a reference pivot point in and then cut the corners as a quadrant referenced from a 60mm radius. Not sure if that makes sense but it does in my head. It would all be so much easier with a CNC router but I like problem-solving and it doesn't matter how long this takes
Also need to decide whether to do the internal cabinet in solid maple, or I am increasingly thinking, in maple-faced 12mm ply/mdf as it will make lots of bits of it easier - but I also am struggling to find some decent maple near me.
Ho hum. Thanks for enquiring


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## Inspector

When I did mine I used a guide bushing in the router, one with a reasonable diameter. I made a template with a piece of plywood to go from the entry point in the back and the final stopping point at the front. The template fitting the inside area of the groove. Tack it down with some brads or screws where you have the inner structure and will be covered. Make the cuts keeping the bushing tight to the template. Once done flip the template over and cut the opposite piece. You only have one contact point for the router bushing so the orientation of the router doesn't matter. You just need to concentrate on holding the guide bushing tight. I had no pucker moments that I recall. It would never occur to me to try to follow the outside lines of the piece with a couple pins in the baseplate

Pete


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## gasman

OK thanks Pete yes I quite like that idea


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> OK thanks Pete yes I quite like that idea


Pete's technical suggestion essentially matches a method I've used many times for a range of similar shaping tasks. Crucially, in the absence of using the impressive capabilities of CNC kit for working the groove in this case, it works very well as long as you take care and don't let the router drift. I prefer to make the template out of 12 mm MDF than plywood; it's easier to tweak and shape the edge of MDF with hand tools if that's what's needed. There's also the benefit of being able, after making the groove, to just nudge the template across a bit to widen it at the turns with a second pass. Check the corner widening is satisfactory with three of four sample staves or slats taped together to run around the groove. Slainte.


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## gasman

Some more progress over the weekend. Thanks Pete and Richard for your helpful suggestion about using a guide bush. I feel a little stoopid as I did know about using a router with one but I hadn't done it for ages and kind of forgot. Senior moment!
Anyhow, I made a template in 9mm MDF




Then set the router up with an 11mm guide bush and the 1/4" spiral cutter. I used the guide rail attachment as it made the router much more stable



It came out really quite well on both top and bottom




I have ordered a sheet of 12mm maple faced MDF to do most of the internal cabinet which will take a week to arrive. The trial tambour I made earlier - slid so easily in my grooves which has given me some confidence this will pan out OK


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## gasman

A month has gone by.... so much other stuff etc going on so apologies for the delays. Progress slow but I think all remaining major problems are (almost) solvable.
Last time I wrote I had finished the top and bottom of the cabinet and routed a 6mm slot which the tambour will run in
I had to do a tiny repair on the groove in the base when my router slipped very slightly but all turned out OK with a small piece glued in and then cleaned up




I used some dark fairly straight grained unidentifiable hardwood which I had in the workshop to make 130 staves 525 x 16 x 12mm. When this is stained and has the Spanish walnut veneer glued on top it will look fine I think...




For the internal cabinet, I bought a sheet of 12.7mm maple-faced MDF which took forever to arrive but was exactly what I wanted. The grain matches the maple I have to make the corner pieces very closely
The corner pieces of the cabinet were a bit fiddly to make. They are curved internally and externally to match the curves of the corners of the base so it will look like there is a continuous 12.7mm wide 'wall' going round the rear corners
I bought a beast of a router cutter - a 2-Inch Diameter 2-Flute Carbide Cove Core Box Router Bit - to do the internal corners




For the rear corners, I started with 2 pieces of maple 22 x 44 x 520mm and took corners off two adjacent sides with a 45 degree chamfer bit. By this means I could run the piece along the router table at 45 degrees as below. Taking it very slowly - 1 mm at a time it was fine with the coving bit. 








Once this process was complete for both pieces, I removed waste on the outside of both pieces on the planer table with a 45 degree chamfer bit... 








.... and then used the new reference face to put 5mm dominoes in the edges to create joints between the curved corner pieces and the maple faced MDF.




Once this was all complete, I finished the outside curves with planes and card scrapers




I dry-assembled the sides and the corners of the cabinet for the first time...




It will sit so there is a 4mm gap between the outside of the cabinet and the groove in the cabinet top and bottom
I've run out of space for photos for this instalment
Cheers Mark


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## gasman

I also started on the front corners of the cabinet which were the same as the rear but only half as wide so they will be in line with the diagonal line on each corner
Again it was a little fiddly but easier than the rear corners - I glued up those front corners onto the side pieces again using dominoes and with TB1 glue. Clamping was a small issue but came out OK with some improvisation...




At the end of the day I was able to dry fit the whole thing together - here the central pieces have not yet been joined to the rear - they are just sitting supported by the top and bottom



I will try not to let another month go by before the next instalment!
Cheers Mark


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## Inspector

One thing I don't see is a way to get the tambour into the grooves. Are you going to cut in a lead in slot later or somehow assemble the cabinet around the tambour? I used a lead in slot in the back so I could glue the cabinet together and finish it, then slip the finished tambour in last. Should you ever need to fix the tambour or want to touch up/refinish it, removal is easy.

Being thrifty, okay cheap, I would have coved the insides of the corners on the table saw. Only disadvantage is there is it's little more work to sand smooth.

Pete


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## Fitzroy

Loving the explanation on the rear corner construction, very educational. Interesting comment on how to get the tambour into the grooves, it’s the sort of thing I’d realise after gluing the whole thing together!


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## Sgian Dubh

Inspector said:


> One thing I don't see is a way to get the tambour into the grooves. Are you going to cut in a lead in slot later or somehow assemble the cabinet around the tambour? I used a lead in slot in the back so I could glue the cabinet together and finish it, then slip the finished tambour in last. Should you ever need to fix the tambour or want to touch up/refinish it, removal is easy. Pete


I must admit I was wondering about that issue of getting the tambour in place. The image below illustrates what you're talking about. In this about half of the base to a tamboured cabinet shows where, at the very bottom right corner, the groove for the tambour staves or slats has a lead in and out into a rebate. The image, by the way, was taken whilst the panel was still sat on CNC machine but had just completed cutting the dovetails, tambour groove and rebate.

The rebate is there, of course, for the later installation of a back panel to protect the tambour and hide all the other gubbins at the back of the cabinet. I'm also wondering what gasman has in mind for a similar back panel for his cabinet because I don't see a rebate or groove to carry such a panel. Slainte.


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## gasman

Thanks guys but I had always planned to remove a small part of the “lip” on the back edge of the top and bottom to allow the tambours to be inserted or removed. Then I will make a small replacement piece which will have screws to hold it in place so I will always be able to remove it


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> Thanks guys but I had always planned to remove a small part of the “lip” on the back edge of the top and bottom to allow the tambours to be inserted or removed. Then I will make a small replacement piece which will have screws to hold it in place so I will always be able to remove it.


That makes sense and solves that little mystery. 

Are you incorporating a back panel as well to cover the rear ends of the tambours, or will that be left open? I realise the back won't normally be seen if the cabinet is up against a wall, but if this was my piece I'd incorporate a panel all the same to prevent stuff getting trapped at the back, and for neatness or tidiness when moving the cabinet around after construction and its installation somewhere, and maybe more than one move and installation exercise depending on how often you rearrange the house, or actually move house, etc. Slainte.


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## gasman

The internal maple cabinet has a wide rear surface which is about 1080 x 510 and if all goes to plan there should only be a gap of 4 or 5mm with the tambour outside that. So I don't think anything else is needed. The tambour is completely on the outside of the piece - so if the doors are slid shut, then the back will be visible. When the doors are open, the tambour will cover the back


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> The internal maple cabinet has a wide rear surface which is about 1080 x 510 and if all goes to plan there should only be a gap of 4 or 5mm with the tambour outside that. So I don't think anything else is needed. The tambour is completely on the outside of the piece - so if the doors are slid shut, then the back will be visible. When the doors are open, the tambour will cover the back.


Okay. Fair enough. I'll be interested to see how it looks when finished. Slainte.


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## MARK.B.

What a great post,clearly explaining the good and bad bits with pictures to help those of us that struggle to picture things clearly in our heads. Will look forward to the next installment .
That super slidey stuff that Droogs mentioned also comes in black if that helps any


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## recipio

Correct me if I'm wrong but have you decided to go with the 'single skinned' design - simply attaching the maple to the base and top with no 'inner skin' for the drawers. ? Are you joining this with Dominoes as it will have to be absolutely free from racking ? The Poritz design has an inner carcass which would be more rigid but heavier and bulky of course.
Is that MDF that you have mitred with the solid walnut ? Doing it with solid wood would be a no no due to expansion and contraction. I thought I might have a go myself and have ordered the 'beast of a bit ' !


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## gasman

Thanks. The top and bottom are veneered 18mm MDF with a 60mm wide mitred walnut frame
The maple internal cabinet is 12mm maple faced MDF
Yes I am planning to do this without a top or bottom to the internal maple cabinet and to use dominoes to join it - and agree about the racking issue you highlighted. I am confident to get this within 1mm which I think will be enough but I do still have the option to add the top and bottom to the internal cabinet if required. It will as you say make it alot heavier. I am just trying to get a wedding gift desk finished before I carry on with this. Thanks for your comments
Regards Mark


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## gasman

I finally finished making another desk for a nephew's wedding present so the workshop is much clearer and I can get on with the tambour cabinet - now officially designated as a whisky cabinet
First thing I did when I had space was to look in much closer detail at the accuracy, dimensions and symmetry of the maple internal cabinet - as this will be absolutely crucial to the tambour running smoothly.
The accuracy was reasonable - within 0.5mm but I went over and above to try to get the heights of all the components of the cabinet exactly the same - 510mm, and then worked on the corner components to get them much closer to a perfect curve
I spent a couple of hours doing this and feel I am now ready to cut dominos to join the internal maple cabinet to the walnut top and bottom. I will start with the back and then work out how to do the sides in order to get left and right sides exactly the same - it will need some trial and error I imagine. I think that's another advantage of using dominos here - because, if I am 1mm out in one of the domino slots, I can easily fill this with half a domino and then recut it in the right position
I am planning to glue dominos in to the internal cabinet components but then will leave the other half of the joints dry for now until I have cut all the tambour slats in order to enable me to make slight alterations if needed
Back soon
Mark


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## gasman

I finished the internal cabinet over the weekend and started making the slats for the tambour.
The internal cabinet was close to being finished but I needed to work on the four corners to make sure the curves were exactly right so as to allow a 4mm gap between the outside edge of the cabinet and the slot for the tambour slats. This was time-consuming but fine if one proceeded slowly. I actually did this on the surface planer and then used cabinet scrapers to smooth out the curves.
Then I started on attaching the cabinet to the top and bottom. I had been stressing about this a little as there was so little room for error. I started with the back as this was less critical than the sides in terms of the fore and aft movement because there isn't a front as it were.
I did it with 5mm dominoes at regular intervals and put elongated slots into the top and bottom to allow for some lateral movement...




So this was the cabinet dry-assembled before I had dominoed the sides




Once I was happy with the rear of the cabinet, I started on the sides. The slots for the sides of the top and bottom had to be exact - within 0.2mm I estimated - as those of you with dominoes will know, you can only alter the position of the joint side to side as it were - and the sides therefore will be relatively fixed because I now had dominoes going perpendicularly to each other. The domino slots in the top and bottom are offset by 16.5mm from those of the cabinet (12.5mm for the tambour and 4mm for the gap between tambour and cabinet. 
After endless measuring and re-measuring I bit the bullet and it actually turned out fine




I assembled the cabinet for the first time and a shave or two off the rear corner pieces made it fit well. I left it dry for the moment as I want to fit the tambour before the final glue up




Once that was done I glued up the corner pieces onto the sides




The I could start thinking about my huge pile of tambour slats again...


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## gasman

First up I had to cut up my two amazing sheets of Spanish walnut. These measured 1350x700 and had to be cut down to 1000x520






I actually cut them both together and ended up with 2 pieces that were so beautiful. Half of this Spanish walnut had an amazing ripple effect so I cut it appropriately to maximise the ripple in these pieces








I had a sheet of 0.5mm thick plastic sheeting which I cut into 10mm strips which were going to go between adjacent strips during the glue up




My original intention was to do the veneering in the vacuum bag - which was stressing me a little as time is short when getting stuff ready to go in the bag and there is always the possibility for slight movement as one puts the items in the bag before the vacuum takes effect. There obviously cannot be any mistakes here as the veneer pattern on strips has to be completely continuous.
I decided to glue up the first slat on each sheet by hand to give me a solid reference face




These two will be the rearmost slats - ie the pieces which will meet together at the rear of the cabinet when the tambour is opened
Actually once I had done here two I decided it would be easier to glue up the slats 15 at a time under direct pressure on the benchtop. The metal container is full of cut-up lead sheet and weighs about 50kg so I used that to put pressure on the rear of the slats and then clamped the front to the bench








So after 4 glue ups I had done one side - 64 slats in total - marked in order in readiness for them being separated - and with the final slat (ie the ones which will meet at the front) not done yet as I need to think about the handles. I might make these front two slats solid walnut with a shaped handle rather like the ones that Richard Jones / Sgian Dubh has on his Torpedore cabinet but need to give some thought to that.
More after the weekend - any questions comments welcome
Regards Mark


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## gasman

I have made good progress this week but it is painfully slow going with multiple 'batch operations' required on each of the 130 staves.
Once glueing up was finished on all the staves, first I had to divide them. This had been made easier by the thin plastic trips between each pair of staves. This came out fairly easily then I could use a scalpel to cut between them with the panel face down on a cutting board. Here I have flipped it over just to show the cuts



Meanwhile I cut up a piece of walnut to form the two central staves which I shaped carefully with rasps and sandpaper




First batch job was to clean up the sides and backs of the staves on 180grit sandpaper to remove all the residual glue etc. Once this was completeI could lay them all out on the bench with the two central ones added so I could start thinking about machining the ends.








After some trial runs, I decided to use a spiral cutter in the router table and machined both ends of each stave on the router table until they all looked like this




There were quite a few in which there were tiny chips in the veneer or where the veneer had lifted slightly and all these had to be glued down, or replaced with tiny cutoffs etc. The 'lugs' which will run in the tambour grooves were 6mm thick by 11mm wide but were still too big to run smoothly round the corners of the cabinet
Again after some trial and error I decided not to increase the width of the corner grooves but instead to curve the outside face of each lug so that it goes round the corner easily. After trying rasps, sandpaper or various grits I decided that a small metal file was perfect as it created a very smooth polished finish on each lug. I don't have a close up but here is the first quarter or so done. It is taking me about 3 minutes per stave to do this - but I am nearly there now - just 25 or so left to do




So, all that is left is to stain and finish the staves and then mount them on linen and try it out. I feel the end of the tunnel is approaching.
Cheers Mark


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## danst96

Beautiful work, i cant wait to see the final product. I want to tackle a tambour sideboard at some point so this is great inspiration


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## Fitzroy

Somehow missed a couple of your updates, this is looking absolutely amazing! The pattern on the veneers and how they matchup at the handles looks fantastic. Brilliant project, totally inspirational!


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> ... I need to think about the handles. I might make these front two slats solid walnut with a shaped handle rather like the ones that Richard Jones / Sgian Dubh has on his Torpedore cabinet but need to give some thought to that.


You seem to be making good progress. I do think you've made extra work for yourself by shaping each of the tongues at the end of each veneered stave to allow the tambour to negotiate the corner. It would have been quicker to have widened the groove in the carcase at each corner which would have been easily accomplished with a small repositioning of the groove cutting jig plus an additional short corner run with the router - eight small repositions in all, plus a bit of sanding and chiselling to remove any steps. Still you have found a way to get over the technical challenge of sliding the tambour around the corners, so that's the main thing.

I think I can approve of your handle/pull choice, ha, ha. Slainte.


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## gasman

Thanks all. I agree it is a lot of work Richard but I am more confident now with this method that my 65 staves on each side going round two corners will slide smoothly whereas I was not that confident on being able to cut the widened grooves at each corner perfectly. I do not have access to a CNC system and I think you cut yours on CNC if I remember correctly? I also think that finishing the ends with a file has turned out to be an amazing solution as the 'lugs' almost look polished now and therefore have less friction that if they had been cut or sanded. The staves are made of a dark hardwood like sapele or another of the many 'mahogany' species and are quite corse grained and tend to splinter. So the fine metalworking needle file has made the ends much smoother I think. 
I always said I was going to copy your handles Richard - I think they are inspired!


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> ... I was not that confident on being able to cut the widened grooves at each corner perfectly. I do not have access to a CNC system and I think you cut yours on CNC if I remember correctly?
> 
> I always said I was going to copy your handles Richard - I think they are inspired!


I'm not criticising your reasoning for making the choice you've made. It looks like it's going to work for you, and that's the key, really. Yes, the tambour's groove in Torpedore was cut on a CNC machine from a CAD drawing, so I just took advantage of technology available to me at the time. In earlier cabinets with tambours that I've made, that technology wasn't available, so I did what I suggested in my earlier post to open up the groove at turns. An example of that methodology was used in the piece below. The snap is a repeat of the image I posted on the second page of this thread, shown here again to save you scrolling back to that page for it.

I appreciate the inspired compliment, by the way. In my mind when I came up with that idea it just seemed to be a way of providing access to the cabinet interior without being clunky, avoided using visible metallic hardware, and had curves that picked up and complemented curves elsewhere in the cabinet, specifically the curve or sweep of the legs. I recall when I devised that solution I was inspired in part by an image of sand dunes in a desert when the sun is low in the sky - upward sweeps and black sharply delineated shadows, something like that, anyway. I hope that isn't coming across as all precious and poncey because it didn't feel like that when I came up with the idea - it just seemed like it would work, and suited the overall look. Slainte.


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## gasman

...my weekly update... and good progress but every time I think I have solved a problem something else comes along to cloud the pathway. A little frustrating but that's what happens when you make it up as you go along I guess.
I finished filing the ends of all the staves - here is a close up




Then stained and hardwaxoiled the fronts of all the staves




I carefully removed the central bit of the rear of the top and bottom of the cabinet and made a replacement fitted with wooden plugs so I will be able to insert or remove the tambours








I oiled the cabinet top and bottom




I bought a metre of black linen to attach the tambours to and constructed to pairs of parallel batons to contain the staves whilst the tambour was glued up




I used TB3 to glue the staves on to the linen - in retrospect this might have been a mistake we will see...
...but anyway I put it into the vacuum bag for an hour




When they were both done, I could see how they looked for the first time sitting in the groove of the bottom of the cabinet




Finally whilst the glue was hardening and oil was drying I started thinking about the drawer
I found some nice sycamore for the drawer front and mocked up a recessed handle








So, although progress has been made, I have new / different problems as follows:
1. The linen is quite un-stretchy and I think it may even have shrunk slightly as the glue dried so that the tambour will not lie perfectly flat but only at the end which will be the rear of each tambour. Don't understand how this has happened but I may even need to take a tiny bit of the sides of one or two of the staves which will be tricky but not too awful. I do have to take away one or two of these staves as otherwise the doors will not open far enough
2. There is glue on some of the tongues of the staves which mean they don't slide very well at the moment. Don't think this is too panicky yet just needs scraping / filing / sanding off. Then they need waxing
3. I cannot quite decide whether to attach the legs directly to the bottom of the cabinet or whether to put a spacer of some sort in so that it looks like the cabinet is floating. Think the top needs to be finished to make this decision
4. I want glass shelves above the drawer which gasses will sit on and want to put LED lights inside to illuminate the shelves so I need to make these unobtrusive - I wonder if I should have thought of this a long time before now!
Hey ho. Cheers Mark


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## Sgian Dubh

Normally attachment of the cloth to the staves is accomplished simply by passing a warm iron over the (PVA) glued cloth, see below. I wonder if the vac bag was the cause of the cupping? Hopefully that cupping won't be a source of sticky or overly stiff tambour movement. Good progress though, by the look of it. Slainte.


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## Inspector

The cabinet is going to look good.

There are many ways to glue the tambours to the canvas. I recall clamping all the tambours together in a frame. Quickly spreading a thin layer of white glue on the slats. Laying the canvas on, stroking it flat with my hand and placing a sheet of plywood on top, holding it down with a few bricks or some such weight. I remember watching my father repairing an old roll top and he spread the canvas out, took each slat and spread some glue on it, placed it on the canvas one at a time. Can't remember if he put any weight on it. It seams to work best if you don't stretch the canvas real tight.

Pete


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## recipio

Why linen and not canvas ? Is it an established technique ? Rounding the tenons is a good idea, do they run freely in the radiused groove .? I have seen some American designs use a dowel in the ends of the slats.


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## gasman

They did run freely before I glued it up. I need a couple of hours to work out the cause of the friction. I think it will be fine. However I am going on holiday tomorrow for 10 days so not going to get anything done about it until I get back


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## MARK.B.

That veneer is something special hurry back from your holiday,your local church would like their lead back as soon as you have finished with it


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## gasman

After two weeks break I returned with renewed gusto to get this thing finished.
First I had to decide whether to install lights which I originally wanted inside - the central part of the cabinet will have glass shelves and I wanted lighting somehow in that which would come on automatically when you opened the tambour doors.... I eventually found these on Amazon which seemed to do exactly what I wanted Motion Sensor LED Strip Lights, 5V LED Light Strip Battery Operated, LED Lights with Automatic Shut Off Timer, 5050 Music Sync Color Changing, USB RGB Bias Lights for Bed, Stairs, Cabinet : Amazon.co.uk
You can just cut them to size - so after a bit of thinking I realised that I could have the motion sensor on the underside off the top inside the central compartment, then mount the battery pack and rout a channel down the back to contain the cable.
Here are the lights cut down to size. You can choose from 100s of colours




I carefully routed a channel in the top of the cabinet as shown below to take the cables such that the motion sensor was at the right place own the underside of the top








Then routed a channel for the cable to go down the back







Then I had to cut a channel in the base for the USB connector too go through




Finally I made a mechanism of holding the battery pack on the underside of the base




I cut a thin piece of maple to cover the routed channel in the back




It ended up working very well - will share a video at the end showing how the lights come on fine when you open the tambour
This was quite a commitment step as there was not much going back once I started on this part - and the lights will eventually be sealed into the top when it is glued on so it had to be right
I had ummed and arred about whether to mount the cabinet straight onto the base or whether to raise it by 10mm so that it looked like it was floating
After some trial and error thought it looked better floating so I cut some 10mm dowels in walnut using my dowel plate and then drilled holes in the base and used centre points to mark the corresponding hole in the underside of the cabinet
Here is a photo with the whole thing dry-assembled showing the gap




More later
Cheers Mark


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## gasman

All was not so rosy however...
The tambours did not slide well enough... which was somewhat dispiriting
The problem was racking when you tried to close the right hand one - which was the one which had the asymmetric handle right at the top - so I thought the simplest solution would be to remake that with the handle lower so that when you pulled on it, the force was from the middle of the tambour rather than the top. Nice idea but it didn't solve the problem so I wondered whether it was because I had used linen rather than canvas.
In the end I don't think it was that but I think I had made a mistake in glueing each slat to the linen individually rather than just rolling all the slats together with glue so that glue went on the whole back surface. The way I had done it there was some of the back surface of the slats not glued to the linen which caused the racking.
This was frustrating but I quickly realised my only option was to redo the tambours - -t was easier than I feared. The linen pulled off and the glue residue came off easily with a scraper - then re-did it using canvas and spending the glue over all the tambours together and then it worked fine
I don't have any photos of this bit - these were dark days!
But here it is with the new fangled tambours and looking much better
So I was on the finishing straight
I glued the top to the cabinet - proper commitment move as that seals in the lights forever




The only things left to do are to order and mount the glass shelves and then fit it with whisky


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## Hornbeam

A stunning piece of furniture and one of the best / most thorough and enjoyable write ups I have read.
Fantastic!


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## recipio

Great piece of work, well done. Now I know where my next TV is going...........


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## Sgian Dubh

The end result is very impressive. Well done. Slainte.


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## Cabinetman

Yes, very good, and it’s the reworking it till it’s right that is impressive as well.
Love the top.


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## MARK.B.

That is very very nice indeed Now about that lead


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## Fitzroy

Brilliant outcome and a great WIP. Love the shadow gap. I can feel the pain you must have been in when at the very end it all went a bit pear shaped, been there. Great that you could find the problem and rectify it successfully.

Fitz.


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## gasman

Haha I paid good money for that lead to fix a leaking gulley at home. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it!
Thanks everyone for your kind comments
Glass ordered - decided in the end to get opaque glass as I think the lighting will light that up better. I will post final photos and a video of the opening next week sometime
Cheers
Mark


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## gasman

Last chapter
All I had left to do was install the glass. I had decided to use 4mm misted safety glass which took a while to deliver
Meanwhile I made some supports for the shelves by making 6mm dowels and then cutting half of half of that away. I made two sets to decide which looked best - and the walnut won easily we thought





So here it was just waiting for the glass




Once the glass arrived it sat very nicely and then it was time to fill the cabi







And here is a video of the opening




Your browser is not able to display this video.




















I hope the video works OK - but generally the tambour works very well - and the light comes on reliably when the doors are opened
Thanks for looking and all your helpful comments during the construction
No judging how much whisky is in the cabinet!
Mark


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## Tealeaf

I just read this thread from start to finish and I have to say I am blown away by the quality of the outcome - absolutely brilliant, well done! I particularly liked the booked matched veneer on the slats, I think that's a wonderful touch and gives the piece some real character. Kudos sir, for an amazing job!


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## Adam W.

Yes, it looks lovely.


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## Sgian Dubh

gasman said:


> No judging how much whisky is in the cabinet! Mark


On the whole I'd say the whisky supply is a bit on the light side but I'll let it pass, for now. 

But it's very nice to see the cabinet finally in use for its intended purpose. Excellent. Slainte.


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## gasman

Thanks for your kind words everyone
Regards
Mark


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