# Workbench in progress



## craigmarshall (23 Oct 2006)

Hi,

I'm a new member, I've been reading these forums for about a week though. Very interesting!

I'm making my first workbench, and here is my design. It's also my first sketchup image, and although I'd already started work on the bench, I can already see how sketchup is going to be very useful for measurements etc. 







The H ends (what's the correct name?) are 3"x3" , the stretchers are 6"x2", the top is 5' x 1'10" x 3" laminated from 6 4"x3" pieces laid flat. I have the top glued up and roughly planed. I have almost finished planing half the 3x3. 

I have the workbench book by Scott Landis from the library, but I wondered what people here thought.

I'm plan to use through mortice and tenon joints for the end H shapes, possibly pinned, or wedged. I'm going to use M&T joints and bed-bolts to connect the stretchers, so I can take it to bits if I move house. 

I will make 3/4" long tenons on the top of each post, and slightly oversize mortices in the underside of the bench, gravity will hold it there, and the oversize holes are to allow for wood movement. How oversize should the mortices be? Or should I move the top cross-beam for each end up, so it's flush with the underside of the top and have a single, central tenon/dowel at each end to remove the expansion problem?

I know softwood isn't ideal, but the wood was under 50 quid, whereas the wood I'd wanted for a beech bench was 250+ I think, I just remember it was way too much. I will probably want to make a new bench anyway when I'm more skilled. 

I'm unsure whether to leave the vice right on the end so I can crosscut timber more easily, or move it inside the leg, widen the legs, and have a possibly more stable base?

Any questions, improvements, or anything I haven't thought about? 

What is the benefit of sled-type feet? (Where the H piece is turned through 90 degrees, so the long parts are at the top and bottom). I suppose it won't dig into my living room carpet as much, because of greater surface area. (Yes, I live in a 1-bed 2nd floor flat, and am turning our living room into a workshop for quiet hand tools  )

Will it be weighty enough to hand plane rough timber, or will I need to store some bricks on the shelf? 

Craig


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## Wanlock Dod (24 Oct 2006)

Craig,

I too am about to embark on a bench making adventure, and plan to make just the front of the top from hardwood. I expect that this bit will see the most abuse. I plan to include a tail vice and dog holes, which would be in the hardwood. I think that a tail vice of some kind might be a valuable addition.

If you need extra weight you could make the bottom shelf a bit like a torsion box (i.e. a sheet of ply at the top and bottom to enclose a void) and fill it with bags of sand. Dont forget to screw the top on though incase you need to take the sand out to shift it at a later date. I did this on my lathe bench and it seems to have worked a treat.

Cheers,

Dod


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## Steve Maskery (24 Oct 2006)

Craig
It looks nice and robust.

If I were you I'd raise the top rail of your end frames flush with the top and bolt the top down with coachscrews. Just make sure they don't foul the movement of your vice.


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## woodbloke (24 Oct 2006)

I made my bench in a very similar way to this one, mortice and tenons on all joints reinforced with draw bolts, which in my view are essential to prevent 'racking' of the frame when it is used for heavy planing. In a warm workshop the long rails can work loose and the bolts serve to tighten the whole thing up and keep it rigid. 
In addition I would add a third long rail at the rear and at the top just under the surface of the bench. Normally this is not included in bench designs as the top is usually seen to be enough to prevent racking in use as it is coach screwed directly to the frame below. This third rail, which is again draw bolted makes the _whole_ underframe _really_ strong and takes the strain away from the top - Rob


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## Anonymous (24 Oct 2006)

craigmarshall":3lm9q7z9 said:


> (Yes, I live in a 1-bed 2nd floor flat, and am turning our living room into a workshop for quiet hand tools  )



I did that once over, trying to do joinery in a first floor flat :roll: . Remember (this is the voice of bitter experience!!)

1/ You'll be forever cleaning shavings and dust off the carpet, they work in and stick like velcro. I got into a row with the landlord and I said well the carpet only cost 99p a yard anuyway :shock: :roll: If your landlord _is_ fussy you could have problems.
2/ Even "quiet" handtools can make a fair amount of noise on a upper wooden floor, chopping mortices, sawing, etc I hope you have understanding people below or you could have more troubles
3/ Bear in mind dust (fine dust) will settle _everywhere_ and may ruin furnishings etc as well as asthma, fire explosion hazard etc. Is your wife as keen as you? if she is especially house proud you could have even more troubles :lol: 
4/ Not to mention carrying wood up stair cases, where will you glue up, apply finishes, store timber and work in progress etc??
5/ and if you have kids its not ideal for them to be playing about while your working timber in the same room.

I'm not trying to disuade your attempt to get working but just wondered if you'd considered what you could be letting yourself in for :lol: :lol: 
Cheers Jonathan


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## craigmarshall (25 Oct 2006)

Dod: 

Yes - A hardwood insert or edging is a good idea.. It's a shame that I've glued up the top for mine already. Would there be a problem with the different woods expanding at a different rate in the humidity? 

A tail vice is something I can't imagine using really. My college course bench(es) don't have them and my dad never had them, but all the proper benches seem to have... Perhaps it's one of those things I'll wish for the first time I use a real bench? 

I think my wife would think that sandbags may be going a big too far for the living room... They would definitely sort out the weight issue, maybe I can make some subtle "sandbag boxes". I think I'll try the design without any weight-enhancers and if it's a problem, I'll deal with it. 

Steve: 

Yes - I might have to consider lag-bolting the bench top on. I am just not too keen on anything metal being inside my benchtop if I can help it though (Apart from the vice which is a definite requirement). There's a bench in the workbench book where the top is held on with gravity and dry tenons. Maybe I'll just learn the hard way! I also want fixings that won't deteriorate with re-assembly, which is what lag-bolts might do if I move a couple or three times? The bed-bolts won't do that, because of proper threaded nuts. If I were to use nuts and bolts for the top, I'd need to counterbore the holes, which I don't think I'd like. 

Hum.. I suppose the method I'm using now doesn't preclude bolting at a later date if I think it needs it, so I think I'll go with the simplest route at the mo. You can say I told you so though, if I decide to bolt things down :wink:

Woodbloke: 

I plan to have m&t joints that are either through joints with wedges. I'm not sure this will work well with softwood though. Should the wedges be softwood or hardwood? Or I'll use normal m&t joints with drawbore pins. Again, is this recommended with softwood? I suppose the pins should be made from hardwood because they're taking a lot of strain, but I'm guessing. 

The long rails will be m&t joints with bed bolts, although I might just plump for making my own from M12 threaded stainless rod with bolts, and I'd get enough for making an actual bed too. 

I have just enough wood (with up to an inch or two spare on each length!) to make the bench as planned above. If I decide I need a third long stretcher after it's built, I won't have any trouble adding that, because of the knock-down joints. I'll definitely bear it in mind, it'd be a quick(ish) way of tightening the whole thing up if it turns out a bit wobbly. These will be my first mortice and tenon joints, ya see!

Mr spanton: 

I thought of the shavings/carpet problem  and I have a several metre by several metre tarpaulin covering three quarters of the room floor and resting up 3 walls a couple of inches. I'm working at ground level at the moment (my benchtop on a couple of 7" x 7" chunks of hardwood), and the shavings are currently easily manageable, and I've made bags of them so far, so I'm happy with that part. It's difficult planing 5ft lengths whilst kneeling though..

I hope I can keep my chiselling (well, malleting) to daytime, somehow, maybe saturdays or something, or days off. Sawing shouldn't be too much trouble, I hope... :?

We've moved most of the things we care about into the bedroom, like a bedsit, so dust won't affect many things. The stereo, which is quite old, is still in here, and it does look dusty, but I think that was from before I started work in here... Actually, I've only been planing so far which is reasonably "clean" anyway. When I'm sawing, I'll probably have my cleaning-work cut out for me. I'm not strong/fit enough to plane continually for long periods of time, so I'm alternating work, clean, work, clean. This results in a very tidy and non-explosive work area, so I'm happy with that too.

By the way, SWMBO isn't any more houseproud than me . 

Finishing might be a hassle. I wanted to ask the people here which methods are the least intrusive for a confined area. I bought some normal linseed oil (not boiled), and I have some finishing wax, not sure if these are suitable. 

I don't plan to store much timber, but there is a dry storage cupboard downstairs at the bottom of the flat, I've never been in there, but for big stuff I think it would have to do. I plan to get what I need for each project, so I'll only be storing offcuts at most. Same with works in progress, I will have to do one thing at a time... 

No kids !!! :evil: Anyway, I need to grow up myself first.

Thanks for your advice. I'll definitely need to concentrate at least on the dust when I begin producing it and the poisonous fumes from finishing. 

Thanks to the others too for your thoughts and ideas.

Cheers, 
Craig


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## Paul Chapman (25 Oct 2006)

craigmarshall":1gkalu3b said:


> A tail vice is something I can't imagine using really. My college course bench(es) don't have them and my dad never had them, but all the proper benches seem to have... Perhaps it's one of those things I'll wish for the first time I use a real bench?



Hi Craig

I would say a tail vice is essential for a woodworking bench. Any long length of wood being planed will need to be supported. If you held a, say, three ft length of wood in the front vice for planing, the weight of the plane and you pressing down on it, would cause the wood to flex - you would end up planing it into a curve.

Some workers plane against a stop fitted into the bench top but most have a tail vice with a dog fitted and one or more rows of bench dogs along the top of the bench. Even if you don't fit a tail vice now, allow space for it for the future :wink: 

Cheers

Paul


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## Anonymous (25 Oct 2006)

Hello craig  
If you use draw bore pins YES they should be hard wood, ash or oak, split from clean clear logs and formed with a gradual taper so they act like a wedge in your off set holes. I used exactly these type to peg up my bench frame which was assembled from odd beams of 6x4, 6x2 and 4x3 softwood.
I dont think your going to get much poisonous fumes from linseed oli and wax, its stuff with nasty solvents as causes bother. But you should have bought boiled linseed as raw never dries out, I once did a cork bathroom floor some years back and wondered why after a WEEK it was still wet.....:roll:
I expect you already know but its always worht remembering to never leave oilsoaked rags bundled up when you've finished as they can ignite from spontaneous combuston and burn your shop (flat :shock: :shock: ) down if your not wary!! I always open them out and leave them on the patio :lol: :lol: (well not permanmently anyway!) 
Cheers Jonathan


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## craigmarshall (25 Oct 2006)

Paul C:

For planing planks and similar, I'll have to have some kind of bench stop, the simplest method, I think, would be a batten cramped to the bench. Anything thin enough to flex will be planeable like this, and anything tall enough to fall over with this method could be done in my vice? I might upgrade the design to include a built-in bench slave (like bench dogs running down the front right leg face, with dowelling "shelves" or similar.)

Maybe once I've got a bench to work on :!:, I'll be ready to build a more substantial bench, but I'll see whether this one works for me first.

There could be space for a tail vice, I have 9 inches of 3 inch thick overhang on the right, so even if it's small, one should fit there, if I change me mind! Should I leave more room than this?

Mr spanton:

Great - I have some oak, and it'll look nice dark reddish pins on the light frame. the bottle of raw linseed I have is 500ml and from "Hiltons", and it says 24 hour drying time, and to remove excess after flooding the surface or something. Perhaps it is boiled, but in disguise? It's a honey colour.

Does leaving the rags out open or flat stop them combusting? Do you have any more info. about that, like the reason that happens? Should I wash the oil out of the rags with turpentine or washing up liquid if I don't have a patio to lay them out on? Do they dry or something on the patio or is that just a safe place to catch fire, if they do..?

Thanks,
Craig


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## craigmarshall (25 Oct 2006)

Sorry to reply twice, here is some information I just found about linseed oil spontaneously combusting, if anyone is interested:

http://www.sintef-group.com/content/page1____7975.aspx?epslanguage=EN

Thanks,
Craig


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## Anonymous (25 Oct 2006)

Someone with more chemist/physics knowhow will be able to give you a technical explanation _why_ combuston happens, I dont know other than its a very real risk! I use small rags, as I say I leave them outside on the concrete slab overnight to dry then bin them. If you dont have a patio just dunk them in water and then hang them up to dry or whatever. Gotta be careful grinding as well, all those sparks, dust/shavings.... :roll: :wink: I use bench grinder as little as possible hate the bloody noise!!


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## Scrit (25 Oct 2006)

craigmarshall":1a8jdfvl said:


> Does leaving the rags out open or flat stop them combusting? Do you have any more info. about that, like the reason that happens? Should I wash the oil out of the rags with turpentine or washing up liquid if I don't have a patio to lay them out on? Do they dry or something on the patio or is that just a safe place to catch fire, if they do..?


It's boiled linseed oil which is the real problem because of the dryers in it. Raw doesn't seem to suffer as much from exothermic reaction. Main thing is don't screw the rag up and drop it in an enclosed, partly-filled waste bin. No floor? Surely you have a drying rope or the like. The heat only builds-up if the rag is tightly scrunched up.

Scrit


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## craigmarshall (25 Oct 2006)

I won't be doing a lot of grinding, I don't have a grindstone! 

However, I've had good luck with a coarse oilstone, and coarse sandpaper (60) spray-glued to a thick piece of glass. Probably takes longer, but I can do it without ear protection and in my living room!!

Thanks,
Craig


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## Paul Chapman (26 Oct 2006)

craigmarshall":23z65pe8 said:


> There could be space for a tail vice, I have 9 inches of 3 inch thick overhang on the right, so even if it's small, one should fit there, if I change me mind! Should I leave more room than this?



Craig,

That would probably be OK. On something fairly substantial like a Record 52D vice, the screw and two guide rods run under the bench top about 9" and are about 2" below the bottom surface of the bench top, so that would fit.

If you don't want to go to the bother of fitting a tail vice just yet, the Veritas wonder dogs and wonder pups provide a similar sort of clamping arrangement and are very useful in any case http://www.brimarc.com/home.php3?page=p ... c=C_106_14


Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## craigmarshall (26 Oct 2006)

Scrit:

Ah, I should be okay with raw linseed oil then. We have clothes airers, I could commandeer one rung of that, perhaps, If I want to be double safe.

Is there a safer traditional alternative to linseed oil?

Thanks,
Craig


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## Anonymous (26 Oct 2006)

morning Scrit
What is exothermic reaction then ?


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## Scrit (26 Oct 2006)

craigmarshall":ruxy481m said:


> I could commandeer one rung of that, perhaps, If I want to be double safe.
> 
> Is there a safer traditional alternative to linseed oil?


Linseed oil is a very traditional finish. Alternatives might include Tung oil or Danish oil, although once again the advice is that cloths used to apply any oil finish with driers or to apply solvents should be spread out or hung to dry before disposal. The idea is to protect the piece, almost any oil finish or even varnish would do, although I'd avoid yacht spar varnish as it's designed so that it _doesn't_ actually set (and horrible, nasty sticky stuff it is, too!). One further traditional finish to consider is beeswax as there's no reaction or heavy solvents there at all. Personally I'd go all modern and use a water-based lacquer (floor lacquer) - protects well and doesn't stink the place ouit (depends if you like the smell of linseed or not I suppose)

Actually spontaneous combustion doesn't happen very often, but when it does the fire has an immediate source of combustable materials. Hence caution is advised.

Mr Spanton - 

Exothermic reaction - a chemical reaction, such as oxidation, which generates heat without the need to put any heat in to start with. As BLO cures it generates heat.

Scrit


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## dedee (26 Oct 2006)

If racking is likely to be a problem and if, as I suspect, most of us have benches up against walls, why not screw a sheet of ply across the rear frame? 

Andy


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