# My first plane restoration



## alan2001 (20 Jul 2011)

Hi folks,

New member here.  

Over the past few months I've been reading with interest everyone's posts about bargain old tools found at car boot sales etc. 

I've been looking for a No. 5 plane for quite some time, and last weekend I discovered this lovely old Record No. 5 at a car rally. Thanks to http://www.recordhandplanes.com/dating.html I've managed to date it as 1957 vintage, which surprised me considering its _relatively _nice condition! 8)












I spent most of yesterday cleaning up the surface rust and fettling the blade, and by that point I just HAD to reassemble it to try and make some shavings:






First time, whisper-thin, beautiful, effortless, delighted! :mrgreen: 

So now I'm hooked. No doubt I'll spend many more days on it, getting it "perfect", hah. :roll: 

Not sure what to do about the handle though. It would be easy to sand the knob & handle down to the bare beech, but then I'd lose the old Record sticker. Advice, please? 

By the way, I got it for £5. :lol:


Thanks for any replies, and thanks for all the advice I've benefitted from during my 6 month lurking period. I like this place a lot.


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## Tony Spear (20 Jul 2011)

Unless you intend to become a collector and it works as well as it appears to, don't mess with it any further!
5 quid? =D>


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## Blister (20 Jul 2011)

Re the sticker

have a look at this thread 

record-handle-transfers-t48777.html?hilit=Record%20sticker


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## jimi43 (20 Jul 2011)

You made a beautiful purchase there Alan...all the right things shine through with your purchase.

Good vintage...nice iron...sole flat where it needs to be (toe heel mouth in alignment)...great chrome condition (these are usually pitted)....Japanning near 100% and most importantly...bargain price! =D> 

This is a G+ plane and needs little fettling to get it looking perfect.....if that's what makes you happy. (it makes me happy but some just use them as they are).

You are a prime example of the right way to go about getting quality tools. Your research has paid off in spades.

Should you wish to move on to premium brands or infills ( :mrgreen: ) later...you will recoup your investment many times over...but by your remarks...I think this may be a keeper?

Bravo my friend! 

Jim


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## AndyT (20 Jul 2011)

Nice one!

Maybe stating the obvious, but although wispy thin shavings are reassuring evidence that everything is set up well and the iron is sharp, a workhorse plane like this will prove its worth when taking off much thicker shavings, so you can get to the desired dimensions quickly. So don't just leave it set fine - use the adjuster! Many people would say that the real genius of the Bailey adjuster is that it is so easy to change the thickness setting - even in mid-stroke.


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## bugbear (20 Jul 2011)

It looks to me as if a previous owner has already put a "top coat" of varnish on the tote, which is now peeling down to bare wood.

I would strip the tote, die the beech (as Record did) as use a slightly "bodying" oil finish, like Danish oil, or Liberon Finishing Oil.

I don't (personally) like the feel of a true gloss finish (varnish, shellac) on a handle.

Here's my beloved, and much used Record #5.






Oh - five quid for that? you robbed him!

BugBear


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## jimi43 (20 Jul 2011)

What BB says is they way I would go too...I hate varnish on handles.

One thing to try is Tru-Oil after staining...it is a glorious finish and so tactile. If it gets a bit worn you just wipe some more on. Purdey use it on their gunstocks so it must be reasonably ok! :mrgreen: 

You can get a small pot on FleaBay....put on with a cotton pad from Boots (makeup removers)...dab the first layer to seal the stain without wiping it out....let dry...rub over with 00 steel wool and then repeat as many times as you wish.

Jim


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## AndyT (20 Jul 2011)

Good advice from Jimi and BB there.
If you want to keep the Record transfer, it would be easy enough to re-finish just the sides and leave the top of the handle as it is. If your hand is making contact with that bit, there is something very odd about your grip!


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## alan2001 (20 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the comments and advice, folks. 


jimi43":9sbxuswt said:


> by your remarks...I think this may be a keeper?


Oh it's definitely a keeper! It's already in working condition, but I'm going to lavish a bit more care and attention on it, I think it deserves to look good. I really enjoy this kind of thing! 


BugBear":9sbxuswt said:


> Oh - five quid for that? you robbed him!


Haha, I know! And the funny thing was, as we were walking past the next stall, the guy there stopped me to ask about the plane. He was also amazed at the price and offered me £30 for it. :mrgreen: No chance! And the wife heard every word, so I didn't even need to justify the purchase of 'yet another tool'. :wink: 

The varnish has to go though, it's flaking away quite badly on the handle especially, but I'll attempt to work around the label and keep it. More photos later, for anyone that's interested. Now, I'm away back out to the workshop to continue buffing the brass wheel with the aid of an electric drill in a vice. 8) *counts fingers*


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## Scouse (20 Jul 2011)

alan2001":770ypx4p said:


> Oh it's definitely a keeper! It's already in working condition, but I'm going to lavish a bit more care and attention on it, I think it deserves to look good. I really enjoy this kind of thing!
> The varnish has to go though, it's flaking away quite badly on the handle especially, but I'll attempt to work around the label and keep it. More photos later, for anyone that's interested. Now, I'm away back out to the workshop to continue buffing the brass wheel with the aid of an electric drill in a vice. 8) *counts fingers*



Lovely plane, and it's nice to see another poor soul at the top of the slippery slope! The more the merrier, and it is really satisfying to see an old wreck back in working condition.

I've had a similar transfer experience with both a Record and a Stanley.

On the Record, I tried to remove the varnish and keep the label intact, but the finish was so thick that the label was very proud of the surface, and sadly had to be sacrificed; I think it would have fallen off by itself anyway.

With the Stanley I'm working on at the moment, I'm simply going to remove the entire handle and keep it in a safe place, and make a new handle to use. A bit long winded, but far more fun than trying to remove old lacquer and leave a small bit intact!

El.


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## Fat ferret (20 Jul 2011)

bugbear":1c3bsc8j said:


> It looks to me as if a previous owner has already put a "top coat" of varnish on the tote, which is now peeling down to bare wood.
> 
> I would strip the tote, die the beech (as Record did) as use a slightly "bodying" oil finish, like Danish oil, or Liberon Finishing Oil.
> 
> ...



Did record leave the wood bare then? Mine is thickly varnished on my no 5 but my no 4 is bare wood. 

Excellent purchase, records are great  .


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## bugbear (20 Jul 2011)

Fat ferret":1g21ao4g said:


> bugbear":1g21ao4g said:
> 
> 
> > It looks to me as if a previous owner has already put a "top coat" of varnish on the tote, which is now peeling down to bare wood.
> ...



Sorry - I wasn't clear; to the best of my recollection, Record dyed the wood, then put a varnish of some kind on.

I like to do the "dye" part, but not the varnish part.

BugBear


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## jimi43 (20 Jul 2011)

On those dyed beech handles..I think they dipped them in polysomethingorother....horrible!

The older rosewood ones tended to be just oiled from what I can see...but if it is varnish it's very thin varnish. 

I would make a new one...just for the fun of it...cocobolo or something equally exotic.

Jim


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## Racers (20 Jul 2011)

Hi, Jim

My record 4 1/2 stayset has rosewood handles that where varnished, they where doing the normal cracking up trick, so I scraped tham back and waxed them.

It cost me £10, knocked them down from £12  



Pete


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## Dangermouse (20 Jul 2011)

if you need a couple of decals see here

new-record-waterslide-decals-t49861.html


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## alan2001 (21 Jul 2011)

Scouse":255lfr2y said:


> With the Stanley I'm working on at the moment, I'm simply going to remove the entire handle and keep it in a safe place, and make a new handle to use. A bit long winded, but far more fun than trying to remove old lacquer and leave a small bit intact!


Ummm... I think that's a step too far, for me. :mrgreen: 

I've still to deal with the knob & handle, but I'm pretty much finished it to my satisfaction. 














Here's the label in question, before I make a mess of it. :wink:


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## gounthar (21 Jul 2011)

Nice job! How did you remove the pin of the adjustment thumbwheel?


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## jimi43 (21 Jul 2011)

Wow! Alan! That is in much nicer nick than I first thought! That's bordering on pristine...you really got a great deal there mate!

Re the handle...it all comes down to useability. As I have said...I don't like the varnished handles...label or no label and would take the varnish off a new one if they made them that good.

Collectors would love this plane as it is with the label and you could get a few bob for that if photographed correctly and stuck up on FleaBay.

Since you are keeping it...I suggest you get another handle from Fleabay (two a penny) and put that one aside for the day you might want to sell it and do what you will with the new handle. Rosewood pairs are quite cheap too...I'd take both off and replace them to what rocks your boat.

That plane is definitely worth the effort. And a fantastic job on cleaning it up.

Well done mate! =D> 

Jim


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## jimi43 (21 Jul 2011)

Just to tease you...imagine what a nice pair of cocobolo handles would look like on her!






:mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Racers (21 Jul 2011)

Hi, Alan

Very nice work. Are you sure that knob is stained beech? I have a Record No5 that must be about the same age that has a rosewood knob. Yours looks very dark to me.

Pete


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## alan2001 (22 Jul 2011)

gounthar":27j75hgl said:


> Nice job! How did you remove the pin of the adjustment thumbwheel?


I'm not sure what you mean - the brass one? It just unscrews, there's no pins involved. 

Pete - I'm not very good at identifying types of wood, so maybe you can tell me?







The handle has come up beatifully just by scraping the varnish off with my thumbnails. So I keep changing my mind about whether to replace them or not. I'll probably keep an eye out on ebay as suggested though - a set of those cocobolo ones would be rather nice. :wink:


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## AndyT (22 Jul 2011)

I'd say that was stained beech. Perfectly good choice. I'd just put bolied linseed oil on it, as many times as I could be bothered. It's the feel of it in your hands that matters more than the appearance.


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## gounthar (22 Jul 2011)

alan2001":3gk3ziyh said:


> gounthar":3gk3ziyh said:
> 
> 
> > Nice job! How did you remove the pin of the adjustment thumbwheel?
> ...


My bad... On mine, I can't unscrew it all the way, the lever it is connected to has to be de-pinned to remove the wheel.  
Anyway, nice job! =D>


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## Racers (22 Jul 2011)

Hi, Alan

The wood looks lighter where the chip is so I think its beech.

I leave mine un-varnished now couple of coats of Danish oil then wax, feels nice.

Pete


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## jimi43 (22 Jul 2011)

I think it is stained beech too...

For finish...I recommend (people are getting fed up with this!) Tru-Oil

It's used on Purdey gunstocks and has a silky feel to it that makes you want to "fondle" the handle it's that tactile.

You can get a small bottle on FleaBay...it goes a LONG way! It's wipe on so nothing complicated there and you can put coat after coat after coat and it doesn't chip or do nothing other than protect the wood and look and feel superb!

Jimi


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## alan2001 (24 Jul 2011)

That Tru Oil sounds nice... one wee bottle ordered. :wink: Thanks for the tip Jim. 






I haven't done much more to the handle, it didn't seem to need much and I think I'll just give it a fine sanding before oiling it. But I would like some advice on the knob, please. As you can see, I've removed all the varnish and given it a pretty thorough sanding with various grades of sandpaper - all done with the knob bolted to a power drill in a vice, which worked really well. However, it's still covered with rough bits. I don't even know how to describe this except perhaps as open bits of end grain??? Anyway, should I persevere trying to sand them smooth or should I just give it up and leave it as is? 






I know it's probably down to personal taste, I'm just wondering if attempting to remove these bits is futile. 

Also, can anyone explain the difference in the darkness of each item? 

Progess so far on "THE LABEL":






Thanks for any advice, as always. 8)


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2011)

Try this experiment: hold the knob in your hand. Can you feel the little tiny flecks? If not, apply oil and get the plane back in use.
If you can, check underneath your six mattresses for a pea!!

Seriously though, they are a natural feature of the wood. The oil will fill them up.


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## alan2001 (24 Jul 2011)

AndyT":wnafcuj7 said:


> check underneath your six mattresses for a pea!!


Ahah! :mrgreen: Yes, I know I'm being a bit of a perfectionist now. It feels completely smooth, and it was all in completely acceptable working order a week ago, I'm just curious why those holes are there, what they're called, and whether they can be removed? No big deal. (Honestly!) (hammer) 


[BTW: "hold the knob in your hand. Can you feel the little tiny flecks?" - Had to check I was in the right forum there. :wink:]


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## Setch (24 Jul 2011)

If you want to fill the pores, wet sand with the rtu-oil, it'll create a slurry which fills them right up.


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## alan2001 (24 Jul 2011)

After looking at some other photos, such as this beautiful rosewood from jimi:






... I don't think there's any need to fill them up. I don't know if I mentioned that I'm new to this woodworking game, if it isn't bleeding obvious to everyone yet :mrgreen: , so I'd just like to understand why they're there etc. Thanks folks. 

It would also be good to have some theories on why both items are such a different colour?


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## Setch (24 Jul 2011)

wood is a vascular structure, and when you cut through it, you reveal the ends of the long fibres, and the gaps between them. Sanding never makes them go away, as when you sand away the surface you are constantly revealing more gaps. The frequency, size and shape of the pores varies from species to species and piece to piece.


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## alan2001 (24 Jul 2011)

Ahhhh... the word "pore" is what I was looking for. Thanks very much, I now have some reading to do. Such as:

http://www.antiquerestorers.com/Articles/SAL/filpore.htm

My lack of basic knowledge continues to amaze me. 

BTW I have no intention of filling the pores, now I understand things a bit better. However, I continue to be confused as to why the knob and handle are so different; the knob is full of pores but the handle has almost none...?


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## jimi43 (24 Jul 2011)

If you want to get really into the finishing of the handles...start with cellulose sanding sealer (Axminster sell it) and wipe that on. Let it go hard and then sand that off using progressively finer grits.

I use Abranet 120 to 400 then move to 3M Micromesh 1500 mesh to 12000 mesh to get the required finish and then hit it with the Tru-Oil...let it set overnight and then repeat the 3M stage only.

But really....for these handles all you have to do is use the Tru-Oil and the above abrasive regime.

I quite like to see the grain...it's part of the character of the wood....but to give you some idea of how bonkers you can go with Tru-Oil...this was a refinish of a Les Paul copy...(bit of a waste IMHO...but there you go...) which took so many layers and rub downs and layers and .....






...if you want gloss that is!

Alternatively, Tru-Oil does "silky" as well...with some fine wire wool finishing....






Either way it doesn't feel "plastic" like polyurethanes do.

Jim


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## alan2001 (31 Jul 2011)

I received my Micromesh as recommended by Jim, and here's the progress so far on the knob. Pictures definitely don't do it justice, it's gleaming! And you can literally see my reflection in it!

BEFORE:






AFTER:






I reckon it's good enough for now... dunno if Tru-Oil will improve it, what do you think?

The handle is going to be rather more time-consuming. Better get on with it. :wink:


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## jimi43 (31 Jul 2011)

That is definitely rosewood...through and through and if you get it to that 12000 mesh level you only really need to put beeswax on it.

Tru Oil will protect it though...I would do a couple of coats...1 hour between each...let dry 24 hours...then micromesh gently again...and wax it.

Nice job mate

Jim


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## alan2001 (13 Aug 2011)

"Final" pictures! And when I say "final", I really mean "good enough for now until I do something else to it". 














Thanks for all the advice, folks, it's been a great help. The Tru-Oil is indeed lovely stuff, Jim!

Can anyone advise if the handle is beech or... what? 

By the way, there's another car show at Eglinton Country Park tomorrow, which is where I got this plane from a car-booter (£5, you may remember. :mrgreen: ) I wonder if the same guy's back again, with a rusty number 4 and a block plane? If so, I'll definitely be having a _proper _look through his box. :mrgreen:


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## jimi43 (13 Aug 2011)

Forget for a moment that this is your first restoration...you have done a superb job by any standard and for the first attempt...well...outstanding!

The rear handle is stained (was) beech...so it is either a replacement or the front one is. I would just get a new handle from FleaBay...make sure you get the right size to fit this plane though...they are all different.

Yes...Tru-Oil is my first choice by far for almost every finish...particularly anything that his touched.

I am just restoring another No.5 1/2 Record...I got some Hammerite Dark Blue in a spray can and it is far easier that way. Will post some pictures when I finish it.

Bravo mate! You should be really proud! =D> 

Cheers

Jim


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## Scouse (13 Aug 2011)

That really is a thing of beauty Alan, well done!


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## alan2001 (14 Aug 2011)

Awww, thanks guys. I'm really pleased with it myself; it's been a labour of love and one of the most satisfying things I've ever done (in my shed )

According to http://www.recordhandplanes.com/dating.html, it's almost definitely a 1957 model, so it would have been born with a beech knob and handle:



> Rosewood was used for the handle and knob until WW2. Post-war production used dark stained beech until 1998 when resistant resin (plastic) replaced wood handle and knob afterwards. Prior to the early 1950's all bench, block and side rebate plane and the cutter iron wedge on the 1366 were listed as selected rosewood. Thereafter they were listed as selected hardwood which was beech stained and lacquered dark brown. However, it is likely that beech was used from the beginning of WW2 as rosewood became difficult to obtain due to war-time restrictions.



So it looks like a previous owner has had a problem with his knob and replaced it at some point in time. It's completely impossible to type those words without some of the more immature members of the audience sniggering. Let's have some decorum please, especially you lot at the back. (hammer) :mrgreen: 

I'm just going to keep it as is - this plane has had a life, and the replacement is part of that story. It works well and looks nice, so why fix it if it ain't broke? I can't believe I'm getting soppy about a plane... time for bed soon, haha.  
[By the way, tomorrow's car show has been cancelled. Dammit!]


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## rocksteadyeddy (14 Aug 2011)

Good job, very tidy! =D> =D> 

Edd


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2011)

alan2001":1tu33lq3 said:


>



Is there no name stamped in to the blade? Normally the proud word "Record" (at least) would be there. :?: 

BugBear


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## alan2001 (15 Aug 2011)

Ummm... I was keeping that side of the blade reversed for safekeeping. (hammer) 






Thankfully I hadn't tried to use it since its last reassembly. D'OH!!!

Thanks for pointing that out...


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## alan2001 (15 Aug 2011)

evening folks. 

words cannot express just how much I am face-palming right now. :roll: 

as it turns out, i've had the blade in this plane as well as my Stanley No.3 smoother in *upside down* all this time. i can't believe it! (hammer) 

not that I have much of a defence, but the Record was like that when I bought it, honestly guvnors! :mrgreen:

for what it's worth, both planes are now working brilliantly, better than I ever thought possible. lots of pennies are now dropping slowly into place, haha.


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## jimi43 (16 Aug 2011)

Alan my friend.....

-10 points for the iron fitting incidents....

+1000 points for the honesty and owning up in public...it takes a true man to do that! =D> 

I think you will find there are a few here  :? who *may* have done that too...in the distant past!

Jim


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## Racers (16 Aug 2011)

Hi,

I have a Record No5 of the same era that has a Rosewood knob, it looked orignal and undisturbed, the whole plane was very rusty all the chrome on the leaver cap was very badly pitted and had to be sanded off, the adjuster was rusted solid.
May be they where using up their stock of knobs.

Pete


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## alan2001 (16 Aug 2011)

jimi43":2fbxr5tw said:


> Alan my friend.....
> 
> -10 points for the iron fitting incidents....
> 
> ...


Haha, I'd much rather give you guys a snigger at my expense than attempt to make flimsy excuses to try and cover my mistakes.  

I'm just over the moon at how easy planing is now - I'm making full length shavings for the first time in my life, which is a wonderful feeling. 

Looking forward to replacing my crappy (but serviceable) Stanley SB-3 with a Record No. 3, as soon as possible. 






It's now smoothing very nicely (especially with it's brand new blade; 50p from B&Q, correct way up!), but the adjustment mechanisms are a bit of a joke. I'm also hoping to acquire a nice block plane of some sort, but I'm resisting spending £35 on an Irwin/Record from B&Q. I'll add to this thread when I make any other plane purchases.


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## jimi43 (16 Aug 2011)

AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

My eyes...my eyes.....

I will never be the same again!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

A classic example of why accountants should never make planes!

Jim


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## Vann (17 Aug 2011)

Racers":1gjmkpz1 said:


> I have a Record No5 of the same era that has a Rosewood knob, it looked orignal and undisturbed, the whole plane was very rusty all the chrome on the leaver cap was very badly pitted and had to be sanded off, the adjuster was rusted solid.
> May be they where using up their stock of knobs.


Yes, I've picked up a couple of post-war Records with rosewood handles too. I can't imagine they're not original (like, who would take off reasonable rosewood handles and replace them with beech?). I just figured they had a big deep box of handles at the Record factory, with new batches of handles going in the top. Every now and then stocks would get low and the old stock rosewood handles at the bottom would be exposed. Well that's my theory...

Cheers, Vann.


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## alan2001 (18 Aug 2011)

^ That's the theory I'm going with too. I've seen several other planes with dark knobs and lighter handles.



jimi43":3surg8p3 said:


> AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!
> 
> My eyes...my eyes.....
> 
> ...


well, if you think that's bad, just imagine me using it with the blade upside down... blunt... making shavings from a nail-infested piece of cocobolo. 

p.s. - naked. :mrgreen:


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## GazPal (18 Aug 2011)

Not a pleasant thought lol

Very nice job restoring your Record. :wink: 

I've found the least invasive and speediest means of cleaning rear handles and front knobs is to use paint/varnish stripper (Also works extremely well when cleaning up castings) such as Nitromors. Then simply scrape off, rinse and finish the surface using 0000 wire wool before possibly staining and re-finishing using your preferred medium.


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## bugbear (18 Aug 2011)

GazPal":36lvq7yz said:


> I've found the least invasive and speediest means of cleaning rear handles and front knobs is to use paint/varnish stripper such as Nitromors.



On old Record/Stanley plane handles, the usual varnish tends to become extremely brittle and crazed (which is presumably why refinishing is desired...).

In this particular case, a cabinet scraper (even a blunt one!) will remove the brittle varnish in moments. Much quicker and less mess than stripper.

BugBear


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## Mike Wingate (18 Aug 2011)

I just make a new set from Bubinga.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 000671.jpg


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## Mike Wingate (18 Aug 2011)

Work in progress and a couple on the 4 and 4 1/2, both with Smoothcut Japanese laminated blades and QS chipbreakers.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010827.jpg

Some file handles in the process of being polished. Walnut with copper piping ferrules.
Two Iwasaki rasps .
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010828.jpg


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## GazPal (18 Aug 2011)

bugbear":3k6j4zt4 said:


> GazPal":3k6j4zt4 said:
> 
> 
> > I've found the least invasive and speediest means of cleaning rear handles and front knobs is to use paint/varnish stripper such as Nitromors.
> ...




Yes, a cabinet scraper quickly removes loose and brittle elements of finish, but not all of the finish is loose and this is where an element of risking potential damage enters the equation. Where stripper may be considered messy, much depends on how it's applied/removed (Mess and residue is actually minimal), but the risk of potential damage to the timber is minimised (Virtually non-existant) and you don't have shards of shrapnel (Hard flakes of finish) flying past your eyes and ears as you work. Using a scraper also involves the unnecessary need for elbow grease and the additional step of having to re-sharpen the blade afterwards, unless using a disposable Stanley/craft knife blade. 

Blunt scrapers tend to ride across old finish instead of serving their intended purpose. :| 

I much prefer using Nitromors and find - in comparison to the scraper technique - I'm less likely to alter an original handle/knob's profile. I've re-finished in excess of 250 handle sets and no animals were harmed during my plane restoration activities.


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## GazPal (18 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":2xt8dyt5 said:


> Work in progress and a couple on the 4 and 4 1/2, both with Smoothcut Japanese laminated blades and QS chipbreakers.
> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010827.jpg
> 
> Some file handles in the process of being polished. Walnut with copper piping ferrules.
> ...




Lovely work Mike


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## Mike Wingate (18 Aug 2011)

250 sets, that is something!!


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## Mike Wingate (18 Aug 2011)

250 sets, that is something!!


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## jimi43 (18 Aug 2011)

Hey Mike! 

Beautiful Holtzapffel handle shapes there my friend....and walnut is such a difficult wood to really turn nicely...the handles on the plane ain't too shabby either!! Bravo! =D> 

On the subject of Nitromors...I find the waterbased B&Q stuff is damn brilliant! Much less messy than Nitromors and would burn the skin off a rhino I bet!

Finally...I found something in B&Q worth buying! And it does what it says on the tin...well...the plastic bottle...but you get the idea! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Mike Wingate (18 Aug 2011)

Thanks Jim. Guitars and woodturning are the only areas of "artistry" that I do. The handles are turned between centres. 3/4" roughing HSS gouge and 1" oval skew Hss chisel, Brown Nylon abrasive pad and burnished with it's own shavings. Craftlac sanding sealer, 2 coats of Craftlac Melamine brushed on and Briwax to finish. Very quick to turn, long time to polish. Those Iwashita rasps are really something. Great for guitar bodies and necks. Loads of control, removes what you want but such a smooth finish. Rutlands sell them.


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## jimi43 (18 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":iggd8h7u said:


> Thanks Jim. Guitars and woodturning are the only areas of "artistry" that I do. The handles are turned between centres. 3/4" roughing HSS gouge and 1" oval skew Hss chisel, Brown Nylon abrasive pad and burnished with it's own shavings. Craftlac sanding sealer, 2 coats of Craftlac Melamine brushed on and Briwax to finish. Very quick to turn, long time to polish. Those Iwashita rasps are really something. Great for guitar bodies and necks. Loads of control, removes what you want but such a smooth finish. Rutlands sell them.



Hi Mike

The wood for my Martin clone is sitting "seasoning" in a back bedroom until I retire and then I can concentrate on my last guitar ever...this one is just for me. In the meantime I am trying out different toolmaking projects and learning to turn more complex things...

I use 3M Micromesh packs from FleaBay (about £8 a pack of 6"x4") with mesh from 1500M to 12000M and I find this better than pro abrasive pads. I did use ordinary papers for pre-cut but since I discovered the benefits of Abranet...I use this now 120 to 400G before using the Micromesh. If I want extra shine I use:






...which came from my electric guitar making days...ideal for nitro finishes and burnishes really well on wood. You can see where I haven't turned the knob over to do the final little bit! The resultant finish needs no other coating at all...but for protection I use Tru-Oil...which I have mentioned many times before...which can be matt...silk or high gloss.

I found out today how to do elipse handles ala Holtzapffel....Douglas showed me! Offset centres! Must try that next.

Jim


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## Mike Wingate (19 Aug 2011)

Replacement handles for a coping saw. Trouble is I fancy one of those Titanium ones from Knew.
http://www.knewconcepts.com/
What does a Holtzapffel offset handle look like. I like your 2 rings on the ferrule, I have seen them on your screwdriver handle. I saw the nice handles on Matthew's WH site and thought if he is getting someone to copy... Mine are not for sale, although I have turned hundres of oak and Am Black Walnut handles for a kitchen manufacturer and oak cup feet for a dealer.


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## alan2001 (19 Aug 2011)

Back on planes for a second, look at the advert that just appeared in my browser:







"Intellilevel"...? WHAT??? :mrgreen:


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## Mike Wingate (19 Aug 2011)

Why would I buy one of those when I have a Stanley Fibre board Plane?


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## jimi43 (19 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":24th014l said:


> Replacement handles for a coping saw. Trouble is I fancy one of those Titanium ones from Knew.
> http://www.knewconcepts.com/
> What does a Holtzapffel offset handle look like. I like your 2 rings on the ferrule, I have seen them on your screwdriver handle. I saw the nice handles on Matthew's WH site and thought if he is getting someone to copy... Mine are not for sale, although I have turned hundres of oak and Am Black Walnut handles for a kitchen manufacturer and oak cup feet for a dealer.



My favourite eliptical Holtzapffel handle is on my giant screwdriver.....
















Gorgeous isn't it!

I won't tell you what it cost me...you'd cry! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## alan2001 (19 Aug 2011)

^ Nice paint tin opener-slash-crowbar!!!  



Mike Wingate":n3mqolpv said:


> Why would I buy one of those when I have a Stanley Fibre board Plane?


Ummm... perhaps it'll make more sense if you read the previous page.

The point is... you _wouldn't_.


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## Mike Wingate (19 Aug 2011)

I love my Parao Plane Master. So versatile, plane, rebate plane (sash fillister0 and all the other jobs it will do. A bit light for paperweight, even with pack of blades and the fence. Box and instructions. A piece of history.


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## goldeneyedmonkey (22 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":1dqjpv0d said:


> Work in progress and a couple on the 4 and 4 1/2, both with Smoothcut Japanese laminated blades and QS chipbreakers.
> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010827.jpg
> 
> Some file handles in the process of being polished. Walnut with copper piping ferrules.
> ...



Top work there Mike... Am I right in thinking that Bubinga is the same timber that is used on the Veritas Dovetail Saw? As I've been wanting to make replacement handles for my Stanley no.4?

Cheers _Dan.


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## Mike Wingate (22 Aug 2011)

Yes, it is Bubinga for the Veritas Dovetail saws. In the U.K. it is sometimes called Bubinga (African Rosewood). Nice idea. I have made a few bass guitar bodies with it. My latest plank has wild twisted grain. I have 2 plane handles marked out, drilled and ready for sawing and shaping. The wild grain may add to the shape.


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## Mike Wingate (26 Aug 2011)

Next batch of Bubinga rear handles/totes on their way. The jig holding the handle was made to hold the handles on the router table whilst rounding over the edges. It doubles for rasping and sanding the handles at the bench.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010835.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010836.jpg


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## jimi43 (26 Aug 2011)

Great photos of the production progression there Mike! =D> 

It certainly is a beautiful wood!

What do you do for jigging the bore hole....that is the difficult bit in my experience....your technique advice would be gratefully received

Jim


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## Paul Chapman (26 Aug 2011)

jimi43":2vi24zfm said:


> It certainly is a beautiful wood!



If you can get hold of figured Bubinga, Jim, it's even nicer than the plain stuff. Mike Wenzloff used it when he made me this dovetail and matching cross cut saw - the wood is quite stunning and I'm not sure that the photos do it justice






Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mike Wingate (26 Aug 2011)

Prep all timber. Mark the holes by pushing a dowel through the hole in the tote. Take all other measurements and data from that line. Drill 2 sizes of holes on the profile of the tote. Bandsaw to shape. Rasp to shape (Iwasaki rasps) Det blank into machine vice on pillar drill. Drill 7/16" hole for brass scre in the top handle with a forstner bit. Replace drill with a 6mm lip and spur, drill halfway. Reverse handle in machine vice (table square and perp and horiz all 3 axis) Drill either a large hole to suit stud and or 6mm to meet other 6mm hole. Line original centre line with a try square on the vice. Enlarge 6mm hole to 7mm with a longer drill from both ends. Drill the forward screw/stud hole. To the router.
A question for you Jimi. How do you do the brass ring on your front handles? I have seen similiar on Philip Marcou planes.


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## jimi43 (26 Aug 2011)

Hi Mike

As I mentioned...those were not made by me...but our dear friend and genius...Tom Lie Nielsen!

Looking at the construction, I would say that a brass bar in a metal lathe...form a lip internally setting a recess but cross shaving and then drill centre hole and part the disc and repeat for the next one. I suspect they may mould theirs but I may be wrong.

A more simple way of doing it would be to part brass discs from rod and then glue to the base of the knob.

I take it you are talking about the cocobolo ones?

Jim


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## Mike Wingate (27 Aug 2011)

Sympathetically improved Stanley No.3. Quangsheng blade and chipbreaker combo from Workshop Heaven. My own handle and tote in Bubinga. The plane was from ebay.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010840.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010839.jpg


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## jimi43 (27 Aug 2011)

Mike...that is absolutely stunning!!

It would be interesting to know what the aggregate cost was...the reason I ask is that I am willing to bet that your souped up "Stanley" would give the top boys a run for their money!

Really really impressed mate...bravo indeed! =D> =D> =D> 

Jim


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## alan2001 (27 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":x4tzyfig said:


> Next batch of Bubinga rear handles/totes on their way. The jig holding the handle was made to hold the handles on the router table whilst rounding over the edges. It doubles for rasping and sanding the handles at the bench.
> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010835.jpg
> http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p244 ... 010836.jpg


Absolutely gorgeous job!

I was just wondering... are you making these for other people? 

Just in case my subtle hint is too subtle... DO YOU HAVE ANY LEFT THAT I CAN BUY, PLEASE? )


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## Mike Wingate (29 Aug 2011)

Cost of tool. £25 on ebay ic p&p
New blade and chipbreaker, £24. If I was doing it again I would get another Rom Cosman combo, although the Quangsheng is really good/great/brilliant/super value.
Bits of wood for handle and tote, probably £2.50 the pair.
polish and wax. £1.
Paint. £4.
Abrasives and autosol. £1.
Labour, experience, tools and equipment... priceless
Quangsheng No.3 £80.
Against £58 plus time. I have had the satisfaction of bringing back a plane into useful life. I hope that I will get 20 years out of it.
My advice, buy a Quangsheng, The Workshop Heaven ones are really nice, others are not so sophisticated, eg the adjustment handle is a twisted bit of steel. Or if you have the money a Clifton or L-N. I used a Clifton this weekend, so heavy and accurate (did not like the rear tote) The L-N's are terrific also, but both are such a price. I could not justify the cost of buying one. The Stanley Records are good value. 
I saw and handled a No.1 Quangsheng at Westonbirt Treefest this weekend. Lovely but a bit light for a paperweight. I am improving my old stock of planes to cheap 21Century tools, it keeps me happy and I can compare and contrast tem to ones of my colleages and mates, as well as use them.


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## alan2001 (29 Aug 2011)

[[ EDIT: I JUST REALISED THAT MIKE WAS REPLYING TO JIMI, NOT ME  ]]

Sorry Mike, perhaps I wasn't too clear. So I'll stop beating about the bush:

I wasn't referring to the planes themselves. Do you or would you make some of these beautiful knobs and handles for the good people of UKW? Or do you just make them for your own restoration projects? It's just that you looked like you had a few 'spare'. :?: 

Please don't think for a second that I'm trying to blag a freebie, or get something for cheaper than it's actually worth. I just think some people who appreciate these things might like to pay a fair price for what is obviously a beautiful piece of workmanship. It may be decades before I could make something like them myself, but I'd sure as hell like to _use _them!!  =D> 



> Labour, experience, tools and equipment... priceless



INDEED!


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## Mike Wingate (30 Aug 2011)

I did send you an email Alan.
It read something like this.
If you are in no hurry, what do you want, what timbers, can you send
templates, how much are you prepared to pay knowing what rosewood ones from
India/China cost at Axminster, polished/unpolished, holes drilled. You name
it.
I have made things for others in the past. Humdreds of handles for a custom kitchen manufacturer, feet for a dealer, electric guitars and basses. If the price is right and you are not in a hurry. I go back to school on monday, so i shall be busier. Must go to Clarks and get some new school shoes.


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## alan2001 (30 Aug 2011)

Mike Wingate":1dczcu59 said:


> I did send you an email Alan.
> It read something like this.
> If you are in no hurry, what do you want, what timbers, can you send
> templates, how much are you prepared to pay knowing what rosewood ones from
> ...


Sorry Mike, I didn't see the email until just now. Thanks.

I perhaps (definitely) naively thought you had a few "spare" ones kicking about. That was a rather daft thing to think, and might remind me not to make silly posts when I'm drunk. _Maybe_. 

Your handles are beautiful and obviously take a massive amount of time and skill and experience to make. You should charge a good price for your talent and I don't think I could afford or justify buying any of them at this time.  

I'll just stick to buying scabby old planes for cheap prices and refurbishing them in my own special way. Apologies for wasting your time and thanks for the offer! 

Maybe if I come across an otherwise perfect smoothing plane with a cocobolo handle and no knob, I'll speak to you about a matching knob in the future. 

[DID I SUCK UP ENOUGH THERE?  ]


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