# Respirator advice



## shad3925 (29 Oct 2013)

I currently use a decent face mask but after a while it become quite uncomfortable and hot so I am looking for advice on what I should lean towards. 
I only need protection from sanding items on the lathe and not against the likes of MDF dust.
Should I go for the likes of the Trend Airshield Pro or JSP Powercap or a floor standing respirator similar to the Numatic NVD750.
Advice and recommendations please

Reg


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## MMUK (29 Oct 2013)

I use a Honeywell half mask respirator with changeable filter pods. I buy my filters from Seton, there's different ones for different tasks.


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## chipmunk (29 Oct 2013)

Reg,
Positive pressure respirators like the Trend and JSP are more comfortable than other types but I'd suggest you consider all methods of keeping the dust out of your lungs. 

A vacuum extractor, a respirator and a background dust filter such as a microclean.
HTH
Jon


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## bogmonster (29 Oct 2013)

Personsal choice really. I originally went for a Trend Airshield powered respirator. Works very well but is very heavy and uncomfortable for me to wear for long periods so don't use it. Expensive mistake! I think a JSP powered unit would have been better for me.

Now I use a Trend AirAce. I like this unit a lot. However it only works if it fits properly so you need to check - good fit is the most important thing. I also need to remember to shave off beard. Very few respirators work properly with beards (except powered ones). I like the AirAce because I also like wearing a full polycrbonate face shield (false sense of security I think) and the AirAce fits underneath and vents to the bottom without misting. It is light, easy to change filters and does not obscure vision. There is a clip on visor for the AirAce but not tried that - looks lik it will just collect shavings and chips - probably more of an issue if you rough iregular lumps of wood or use an arbortech.

I think the round cartridge filters probably work better at filtering though and you can get filters for welding fumes and the like for many of these.

Other ADDITIONAL things to consider - air cleaner - I have the Microclene style but I think the bigger Jet / Record style units are quieter. Collection at source - a high volme low pressure extractor with either a fine cartridge or venting somewhere safe.

3M do some nice powered units but at a price.

BM

I'm not as careful as I should be and making a big effort to improve.


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## Doofusme (29 Oct 2013)

I had a Trend Airshield Pro, but sold it on as it was like being in a goldfish bowl and the noise (although not loud) was annoying i tried the half mask respirator too but found it very sweaty and uncomfortable, I am now using a sanding wax(prevention being better than cure) , a disposable P2 face filter and have improved my extraction unit as well, hope this all helps.

Phil


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## Vic Perrin (29 Oct 2013)

I use the Trend Airshield Pro and like others have commented I agree that it is a little on the heavy side and noisy but these are only small inconveniences compared to the job it is doing in keeping the dust out of your lungs.

Regards

Vic


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## chipmunk (29 Oct 2013)

BM is right about the Jet filters being quieter than some - I have an AFS500 and it's been reliable and trouble-free. 
I have mine on a remote controlled socket so it can be switched on and off easily.

The alternative to the HVLP systems is to use something like a Camvac HPLV twin motor extractor which will filter down to the required spec and both keep you warm and allow you to stay warm in the winter. They are noisy but can be made quieter by fitting a labyrinth silencer to the exhaust ports.

HTH
Jon


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## bogmonster (29 Oct 2013)

As you can see, there is quite a differnce of opinnion on the powered respirator. They offer great potection so do look at them but if possible try one for a period of time. For me, I got such terrible neck pain and locked vertabrae I had to stop turning until I found another solution. The more expensive respirators with a belt battery and filter unit would be perfect for me but they are expensive. I think the Trend Airshield pro has the weight quite high up and with turning your head is often angled down.

However, other people get on fine with the weight. 

BM


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## shad3925 (29 Oct 2013)

Many thanks for all the informative replies.
It would appear from your comments and also online that the Trend Airshield Pro can be uncomfortable due to the weight and the noise could be a problem, JSP may be the way to go.


Jon
A large disposable income, I wish. It will have to be at this stage either vacuum extractor or the JSP or similar.
You also mention a Camvac HPLV twin motor extractor, any guidance on model?

Does anyone own the JSP and what are your impressions?
Reg


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## chipmunk (29 Oct 2013)

Hi Reg,
Point taken but it's easy to think it's not necessary and then before you know it you're lungs are shot.

I have a JSP powercap - the cheap disposable battery version with rechargeable NiCad batteries fitted and a polycarb face shield replacing the original. It's ok and does the job.

Fogot the Camvac question. I bought a wall mounted unit, a Camvac CGV286-4-Wall and it's pretty good connected to the 2.5" Axminster plumbing with blast gates for bandsaw, lathe, chop saw and floor sweeping - Does everything I need although the filters do clog after a while. Remove the lift shake the filter sack from the inside and off you go again.

Jon


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## shad3925 (29 Oct 2013)

Hi Jon
Many thanks.
I went to Axminster"s Warrington branch last Saturday ( Three local clubs were giving turning demo's), whilst there Matthew the assistant manager (very helpful) was very enthusiatic about the Numatic NVD750, are there huge differences between this model and the CGV286.
When using these extractors with your lathe when sanding is a special adapter needed or is it just placing the hose in a convenient place near to the sanding.
Reg


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## Duncan A (29 Oct 2013)

Reg,

Don't discount the positive pressure respirators such as the 3M Versaflo, Scott Tornado, JSP Jetstream, Sundstrom SR 500. They are expensive but can sometimes be picked up on eBay quite cheaply. They are very effective and surprisingly convenient to use. I bought my Sundstrom on eBay for £135 then spent abt £150 on a new helmet because I didn't like the hood (although it gives very good head and shoulders dust protection when sanding) - less than £300 in all for something which I find so comfortable that I sometimes forget to take it off.

The JSP Jetstream is one of the cheapest but the helmet may not be to everyone's liking. 
Arco are the only suppliers of Sundstrom, but most of the others are also sold by Arco so they can be tried on at your nearest Arco outlet, in addition to all the usual workgear suppliers.

Duncan


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## bogmonster (29 Oct 2013)

Ha, thought I would take a look on evil bay. Just bought a Sundstrom 500/580. There is another going as we'll as an auction. I got a buy it now for 160. Money we'll spent if it is as described. 

BM


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## shad3925 (29 Oct 2013)

Duncan A":3ne5ex6p said:


> Reg,
> 
> Don't discount the positive pressure respirators such as the 3M Versaflo, Scott Tornado, JSP Jetstream, Sundstrom SR 500. They are expensive but can sometimes be picked up on eBay quite cheaply. They are very effective and surprisingly convenient to use. I bought my Sundstrom on eBay for £135 then spent abt £150 on a new helmet because I didn't like the hood (although it gives very good head and shoulders dust protection when sanding) - less than £300 in all for something which I find so comfortable that I sometimes forget to take it off.
> 
> ...



Hi Duncan

Many thanks, I will have a look at them

Reg


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## bogmonster (29 Oct 2013)

Well, I guess I now have a trend air shield pro for sale, great units, not too heavy at all......sad to see it go...... :---)


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## boysie39 (30 Oct 2013)

bogmonster":lijd18w2 said:


> Well, I guess I now have a trend air shield pro for sale, great units, not too heavy at all......sad to see it go...... :---)



:twisted: So are you selling it without the pain in the neck :twisted: :lol: :lol: 

I over time had all the dust proctors that have been mentioned , :roll: The last one I had I bought secondhand from Glenn Lucas ,he had been testing the latest edition and was keeping it . I cannot remember the make ,it was a full mask with the battery on a belt with a hose from the battery to mask .It was the best I had ever used . If I were to buy a new one I would go for the same make .{ when I sold my lathe it went also } .

I think a member on here had the same unit and had bought spares for it . I think it may have been Gregmcateer If I am wrong I apologies Greg .


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## bogmonster (30 Oct 2013)

Reg,

Back to the original post. If you can only go for one, get the respirator. However, I think a cheap effective respirator and an extractor would be an equally good option and could be had for similar money. My extractor is a Record Power cx2600 with the fine cartridge and paid 170 quid for the whole thing new. I have been happy with that and an airace which together is less than the jsp powercap. In my very small turning room the HVLP actually appears to do a reasonable job of filtering the surrounding air as well.

I think I am right in saying that you want a P2 filter or better. Although you don't use MDF, hardwood dust can be mighty small and it is those very small particles that often do the most damage.

An extractor alone is not sufficient in the slightest.

Unless you have a means to clean the air, dust will stay floating around for days so it is not just a case of wearing a respirator whilst turning.

Also try evil bay. I recently picked up a used microlean (axminster branded) 1200 for 36 quid. Record we're selling recon air filters for £100 about a month ago on ebay.

Worried I now sound a bit like a nagging mother......

BM


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## david123 (30 Oct 2013)

+1 for the Trend Airshield Pro.Never normaly have it on for long periods of time so weight is not a problem. Think they are great. IMHO


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## shad3925 (30 Oct 2013)

bogmonster":23sdlb2p said:


> Reg,
> 
> Back to the original post. If you can only go for one, get the respirator. However, I think a cheap effective respirator and an extractor would be an equally good option and could be had for similar money. My extractor is a Record Power cx2600 with the fine cartridge and paid 170 quid for the whole thing new. I have been happy with that and an airace which together is less than the jsp powercap. In my very small turning room the HVLP actually appears to do a reasonable job of filtering the surrounding air as well.
> 
> ...


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## HeliGav (30 Oct 2013)

I use a Numatic NVD750 Workshop Vacuum Extractor from axeminister, says on the box that it goes down to 0.5 micron filtration, but the bonus is that the exit port where to below 0.5 micron stuff is blown out has a pipe to aim outside so that makes it a 0.0 micron filter in my book! Also wear a disposable p3 filter mask as a can get hold of these free from a friend.


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## HeliGav (30 Oct 2013)

Lung disease is horrible and you die a horrible death! 

Sorry if thats a bit extreme but ive spent the better half of my life working in health industry!


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## n0legs (30 Oct 2013)

:?:


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## shad3925 (30 Oct 2013)

HeliGav":2gjcktg6 said:


> I use a Numatic NVD750 Workshop Vacuum Extractor from axeminister, says on the box that it goes down to 0.5 micron filtration, but the bonus is that the exit port where to below 0.5 micron stuff is blown out has a pipe to aim outside so that makes it a 0.0 micron filter in my book! Also wear a disposable p3 filter mask as a can get hold of these free from a friend.



How do you find the NVD750, I take it this is the twin motor version.
Reg


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## bogmonster (30 Oct 2013)

Not sure what kind of building you work in but another cheap idea is to simply vent outside. Sure, you will get cold in the winter but a fan is cheap and may be simple to install in a shed. Obviously you need to let new air in and there is a risk of sucking dusty air back in so a little thought is needed and possibly a bit of extra ducting. Also you might upset neighbours on washing day......


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## nicguthrie (31 Oct 2013)

shad3925":2csf0xnv said:


> Hi Jon
> Many thanks.
> I went to Axminster"s Warrington branch last Saturday ( Three local clubs were giving turning demo's), whilst there Matthew the assistant manager (very helpful) was very enthusiatic about the Numatic NVD750, are there huge differences between this model and the CGV286.
> When using these extractors with your lathe when sanding is a special adapter needed or is it just placing the hose in a convenient place near to the sanding.
> Reg



I have the NVD750 and yes, it's the twin motor one. It's excellent, the suction on the 4inch pipe may be a little on the low side, but then I've never used any other machines for my own ends, it's not a chip extractor, and a four inch pipe is a heckuvva wide pipe to be sucking through, so it may just be my inexperience talking there.

In order to use it at the lathe, I have a very MacGyver trick, I duct taped two very strong half inch Neodymium magnets to the nozzle of the hose. I attach this on the underside of my toolrest,nearly touching the workpiece, wherever is in the best position to grab the majority of shavings as I work. It doesn't catch everything, especially the larger chips, but seems to grab a great majority of the finer stuff. I have one of the thicker and flatter toolrest designs, so I'm not sure it'd work for you if you use a round bar one.

For turning I'm not sure of a better way to use it. I've seen folks use the 4 inch hose just mounted behind the workpiece, and others using a perspex hood. I don't think either would prove superior, but they might be less fiddly to use. 

The magnets under the cushioning of ducttape makes for great grip and slide resistance, I've even used it attached straight under the bandsaw table, sucking the waste straight through the table insert under the blade, while cutting stuff I *really* didn't want blowing all over the workshop.

Can't help you much on the actual respirator tho. I'm yet to find one I'm happy with myself. The trend airshield was too heavy for me too and I also found that the angle the air came in (just above your eyes) made for irritated eyeballs after a while. Do the JSP caps avoid this? I've been using good quality P2 paper masks under a full plastic face shield until I find a better option that is affordable.

All the best in your hunting.

Nic.


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## chipmunk (1 Nov 2013)

Hi Reg,
I think that the Camvac's have equivalent performance to the Numatics (0.5 micron) but are better value for money.

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Health___Safety/Dust_Extraction/dust_extraction.html

When I was buying my unit I took advice from Peter Hemsley and he suggested that for dust extraction at the lathe then 63mm rather than 100mm was the way to go because of the more turbulent and faster air flow than with 100mm plumbing. I have to admit that occasionally I get blockages when using it for floor vaccuuming but mostly this is in the flexible accessory hose when I suck up too many green wood shavings at once.

I use this kit...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/63mm-dust-extraction-kit

and one of these posable hoses which I have mounted behind the lathe and can be steered to catch as much dust as possible at source...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-bendi-hoze

You can see it here pushed out of the way...






Hope this helps
Jon


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## shad3925 (1 Nov 2013)

Nic
Many thanks, it just happens that I have some Neodymium magnets.


Jon
Thanks again for your advice, a few questions
1. Which model of the Camvac range are you using
2. What are the noise levels like
3. How efficient are they in keeping the dust level down on general workshop surfaces.
4. Do you vent the Camvac's outlet hose outside 

Reg


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## chipmunk (1 Nov 2013)

Hi Reg,
Mine is a Camvac CGV286-4-Wall, 150ltr. Twin Motor - Wall Mounted Dust Extractor, 2.5 in. inlet.

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Hea...tion/CamVac_Extractors/camvac_extractors.html

With a plywood labyrinth added to the exhaust ports the noise level isn't too bad. 

Here is an old picture of the prototype for one labyrinth with the two exhausts into one connector. 





The idea is to bend the outgoing air around a few bends without any constrictions so that there is no direct path for the noise but the air can flow freely. I now have two labyrinth; one on each exhaust port.

I have it vented inside my workshop) which is good at keeping the heat in although it is 2.5kWatts with both motors which also warms up the workshop. This is fine in winter but can make things hotter in summer.

It's very hard to answer the question about dust on surfaces in the workshop. I have no way of knowing because I haven't tried it without running the extractor and I also have a Jet AFS500 filter that I also run. Perhaps I can say that I do still get dust though, but it doesn't form very quickly.

HTH
Jon


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## HeliGav (1 Nov 2013)

This is my setup, i have yet to perfect it as it was a bit slap dash. The router table as a pipe going into the back of the cabinet that connects to the router dust extractor port. I have connected a Y junction on the ceiling over the table saw to plug both pipes to. I usually just cpnnect each machine up as I use it which is easy and takes a few seconds, can be a pain but didnt want to spend out on expensive tubing and gates so u get what u pay for. Im happy with it!


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## bogmonster (1 Nov 2013)

I have my Sundstrom unit now so will put up a review once I have had a proper play. It does look like a quality piece of kit though. My fat head only just fits the sr580 headtop though and it is still heavy. However, far better balanced than the Trend. I may swap the headtop out but will see how I get on with it. The fan unit looks superb. 

BM


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## HeliGav (1 Nov 2013)

When I'm next off work I'm going try to rig something up to put between myself and the lathe as this is where most of the stuff flies off to, anyone got any pics or ideas????


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## nicguthrie (1 Nov 2013)

Heligav, for tucking between you and your lathe, I'd stand by my magnet and duct tape trick I mentioned earlier. It's definitely the smallest and most discrete method I've seen.

I run the hose for the dust collector up the banjo to the tool rest, and then secure it under the tool rest using the strong neodymium magnets that I've duct taped to the nozzle of the hose, one on the short side of the slanted tip, the other at the long end, so that I can turn it around to follow the shape of whatever I'm turning to keep it close to the cut.

I can pm you a photo, it's nothing really to write home about but it works well for me.

I wish I had manufacturing abilities, as I'd love to make, patent and sell an invention for this, to take it a step further but I'm sitting on it until I've knocked together a prototype 

Nic.


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## shad3925 (1 Nov 2013)

chipmunk":fv98or8o said:


> Hi Reg,
> I think that the Camvac's have equivalent performance to the Numatics (0.5 micron) but are better value for money.
> 
> http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Health___Safety/Dust_Extraction/dust_extraction.html
> ...



Hi Jon

Many thanks for all the info
I have taken the plunge and ordered the same model as yours, it was probably the last one available in the UK.
Camvac has had a major problem where the maker of the extractor drums has let them down, consequently all dealers have run out and it will now be about 8 weeks for deliveries.
Does the Axminster posable hose fit the Camvac hose or do you have to adapt it?
I was also hoping to obtain a second hand Trend Airshield Pro but not sure if still available so will probably opt for the Trend Airace.
Reg


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## chipmunk (2 Nov 2013)

Hi Reg,
Unfortunately hardly any of the hoses fit one another without some sort of adaption, but luckily we're all woodturners here. So adaptors are not a problem for us to make out of wood or mdf or bits of old plastic pipe or whatever you have around.

The Axminster poseable hose in particular is a real odd-ball size. At 75mm rather than 63mm or 100mm I don't think it fits anything straight off :roll:

HTH
Jon


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## shad3925 (2 Nov 2013)

Hi Jon
Many thanks, I think I will opt for the Camvac poseable hose which is only marginally more expensive than the Axminster.
Reg


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