# Cheaper Steb Centres Now?



## chipmunk (17 Apr 2015)

Hi All,
Well, the UK patent on the Steb drive centre expired on 1st February this year...
https://www.ipo.gov.uk/p-ipsum/Case/PublicationNumber/GB2286138

So we are now free to make our own versions and to legally import cheap knock-offs from the US and Europe.

If you're looking for a neat way of making your own, I'd recommend a blank-end arbor such as the ones here...
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Blank-End-Arbors
Quite possible to drill and file on the woodlathe.

HTH
Jon


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## Rhossydd (17 Apr 2015)

chipmunk":1eveco12 said:


> So we are now free to make our own versions


You always have been. It's the sale of them that patents control.


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## Random Orbital Bob (17 Apr 2015)

so pleased I just spent £85 on the sorby ones for head and tailstock then!


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## marcros (17 Apr 2015)

ouch

have you got one that fits in the chuck bob?


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## chipmunk (17 Apr 2015)

Hi Rhossydd,
According to the Patents Act 1977 (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-patents-act-1977)...

"Meaning of infringement
60.-(1) Subject to the provisions of this section, a person infringes a patent for an invention if, but only if, while the patent is in force, he does any of the following things in the United Kingdom in relation to the invention without the consent of the proprietor of the patent, that is to say -

(a) where the invention is a product, he makes, disposes of, offers to dispose of, uses or imports the product or keeps it whether for disposal or otherwise; "

In theory you can be sued for damages by the patent owner even if you make your own for your own use.

...but I admit it's a bit of a grey area because it also says...

"(5) An act which, apart from this subsection, would constitute an infringement of a patent for an invention shall not do so if -
(a) it is done privately and for purposes which are not commercial;"

So, I think it probably is if you didn't describe it on a forum such as this and kept it in your workshop without showing anyone ;-)

Jon


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## Random Orbital Bob (17 Apr 2015)

marcros":taub9tht said:


> ouch
> 
> have you got one that fits in the chuck bob?


Yup...called the stebchuck or an abbreviated version of that. I got the 7/8" version as that seemed neither too large get in the way of smaller stock nor too small to fail to hold larger pieces. I then got the matching MT2 tailstock live centre so I can do off centre work if necessary. I cant believe how much better than a regular spur drive they are. For a start, no more malleting in the drive centre in very hard end grain which is a good enough reason alone to own one


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## Robbo3 (18 Apr 2015)

Les Thorne grips a morse taper steb centre in the jaws of a woodturning chuck.

At his last demo, I couldn't quite see whether he gripped the top of the shank or the steb body. I suppose either would do as all the pressure is towards the headstock.

http://www.noturningback.co.uk/ntbk/


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## Random Orbital Bob (19 Apr 2015)

I asked John Davis Woodturning about that and he says the Sorby's aren't designed to do that. However, if it works.....


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## marcros (19 Apr 2015)

There is a dedicated chuck version available for £15 which I am going to get at some point. I have a penn state industries version of the drive centre and it has been very good.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Apr 2015)

Robbo3":1gm0gqxu said:


> Les Thorne grips a morse taper steb centre in the jaws of a woodturning chuck.
> 
> At his last demo, I couldn't quite see whether he gripped the top of the shank or the steb body. I suppose either would do as all the pressure is towards the headstock.
> 
> http://www.noturningback.co.uk/ntbk/


At our club all morse taper drive centres are invariably used in chucks, although I'd rather take the chuck off.


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## Robbo3 (20 Apr 2015)

Managed to get a couple of minutes to try it out.

The morse taper shank can be gripped in the centre hole formed with Axminster 'C' jaws as can the main body of the steb centre. I presume this would apply to most jaws.

I prefer the second method so as not to risk damaging the taper.


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## chipmunk (20 Apr 2015)

Of course you can grip it in the 1" hole of the C-jaws but I can thoroughly recommend the Axminster morse taper carriers. You can then use the carrier for drive centres and drill chucks which you really want to run concentrically. 

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-morse-taper-carriers

I actually have one carrier for when the C-jaws are in the chuck and one turned to have a dovetail to fit in my O'Donnell jaws. I actually used a big turnip file to do this before I bought my metal lathe but if you do this it's better if you turn it with a Morse Taper as a mandrel so you're sure everything will end up true to the inside taper.

The only problem with these carriers is how to remove the MT's after use. To get around it I have a block of wood with a ~4" deep blind 1.5" diameter hole down the middle. Stick the drive centre down the hole and hit the tang with a mallet - hey presto!

HTH
Jon


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2015)

"You can then use the carrier for drive centres and drill chucks which you really want to run concentrically." 
If I were that worried about concentricity, I'd put the drive centre straight in the spindle and not use the chuck.


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## chipmunk (20 Apr 2015)

phil.p":1g6uvu1t said:


> "You can then use the carrier for drive centres and drill chucks which you really want to run concentrically."
> If I were that worried about concentricity, I'd put the drive centre straight in the spindle and not use the chuck.



Maybe, but I suppose my point would be why waste time removing the chuck if you know it'll all be concentric without?

My Axminster chuck with an MT carrier in the jaws is within a "gnat's" of the headstock taper. So I hardly ever remove it from the headstock thread.












Jon


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## chipmunk (21 Nov 2015)

As a postscript to this thread...

I'm not sure if anyone has seen these for sale at Chronos but they are a bargain!
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/SCT-Woodworking-Chucks---Centres---Faceplates-etc.html














I bought a 1" drive centre at £9.83 and a 1" live centre at £14.94. 
Brilliant value and they both seem to run without any noticeable run out at all. 
I suppose the bearings in the live centre may not turn out to be the best but that's by far the cheapest live centre I've ever bought.

If I have any criticisms I'd say that the spring seems quite weak and they are not the same size and so swapping end-for end is not going to be as easy as it could be.

...But these appear to be Steb clones with the ring of points projecting straight out which I think I'm more comfortable with. The other drive centre seems to have angled points in the driving direction.

I haven't used them in anger yet but will let you know if they turn out to be duds.
Jon


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## marcros (21 Nov 2015)

good find Jon


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## duncanh (21 Nov 2015)

That's excellent news. It just goes to show how ridiculously over priced the official Steb Centres are - starting at £34 + VAT from Toolpost compared to from less than £10 +VAT from Chronos.

Just a shame that they're not listed as being at the Harrogate show or I would have picked up several tomorrow


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## duncanh (21 Nov 2015)

Also, did you notice the chucks and jaws on the same page? Does anyone know if their chuck is by any chance compatible with the Nova/Record ones? Their jaws are really cheap - Powergrip ones £14 + VAT compared to ~£50 for the Nova ones.


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Nov 2015)

:idea: ... yes ... it would be good to with which others they are compatible.


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## chipmunk (23 Nov 2015)

duncanh":31hfbcok said:


> It just goes to show how ridiculously over priced the official Steb Centres are - starting at £34 + VAT from Toolpost compared to from less than £10 +VAT from Chronos.



The thing is that many of us bought them at that price because they were such an innovative and useful product and by implication must have thought they were worth that much. 

To be fair to Sorby they do spend quite a lot of money on innovation and marketing and I guess that's what we were paying for, and are continuing to pay for, when buying Sorby stuff. Robert Sorby still have the most complete set of Steb centres as well, including the chuck mounted variants, perhaps because they know the woodturning market better than any of the late-comers.

Jon


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## HappyPixie (23 Nov 2015)

Although I love a bargain, the Chronos range is far from complete. I want a 1" 1MT and they only do half inch at present. I may drop into their shop and look at the sets. It looks like there are drive and live centre stalks which you attach a head to and there are three sizes of four-prong and steb/crown heads in the set.

Most intriguing.

Steve


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## condeesteso (2 Dec 2015)

Today I can't get that Chronos link to work (error 404) and my site searches (live centres etc) don't bring them up. I did look the other day and they were there, but could they possibly have disappeared?


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## chipmunk (2 Dec 2015)

Hi Douglas,
I checked and did a few more extensive searches but you're right - they've disappeared completely.

I also tried searching for the individual item codes as well and they do not come up. 
They may have sold out or been closed down from selling them?
Jon


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## condeesteso (2 Dec 2015)

Damn - i should have bought the other day. I will call Chronos - i wanted a live so I can make a cone vcentre for another job (slip over the steb) and this gave me a useful alternative live, cheap.


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## marcros (2 Dec 2015)

please post back if the news is positive- i was planning on ordering a set too!


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## parvum (2 Dec 2015)

Had me bricking it after my post may 21 2014, expected a raid from the Sorby death commandos. Chronos are alive and well! see their Ebay shop page http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crown-Drive-C ... he-Turning.

regards Paul


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## duncanh (2 Dec 2015)

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/chronosenginee ... &_nkw=wood


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## condeesteso (2 Dec 2015)

Yep, all fine now - odd they have them on eBay but not visible in their own store anywhere. But they can be had, so all good - thanks for re-finding!


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## MARK.B. (2 Dec 2015)

More expensive on ebay £22.00 for 1" 2mt revolving tailstock centre ,£14.94 including vat and free postage from chronos website, ordered mine on 28 nov and got confirmation its in the post today .


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## Dave Brookes (3 Dec 2015)

Like Mark B, I placed an order with them on 26th Nov, have received it today.
Only drawback was that the brain dead postperson forced it through the letter box and wrecked the draft excluder AGAIN!

Dave


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## marcros (4 Dec 2015)

they appear to be back online http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/SCT- ... hucks.html


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## Rhossydd (4 Dec 2015)

A big thanks to Chipmunk for drawing attention to these ones from Chronos.

I bought one, at just over a tenner delivered there's not much to loose, but wow, these really do the business.
I can't see myself ever going back to using conventional drive centres.


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## Sheptonphil (5 Dec 2015)

Rhossydd":1fbi3ugy said:


> I can't see myself ever going back to using conventional drive centres.



Nor I, I bought th Sorby Steb 18 months ago and haven't used a prong drive since. 

I also have the 1 1/4 live and dead Sorby, but have just ordered the 1/2" live from chronic. Shame they don't do an mt2 1/2" so had to get the mt1 and a mt2 sleeve. 

Phil


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## duncanh (5 Dec 2015)

Sheptonphil":qvedlmg7 said:


> Rhossydd":qvedlmg7 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't see myself ever going back to using conventional drive centres.
> ...



Traditional 4 and 2 prong drives are still useful and I use mine regularly despite having a large steb and chuck mounted steb. In wet or soft wood I find that steb centres will often loose grip and let the wood spin. Once this has happened a few times the teeth can create a deep ring groove and once it's reached the depth of the teeth the steb is useless. In such timbers I often just go straight for the 4 prong.


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## CHJ (5 Dec 2015)

Just splashed out on this package:-




Does not fit my machine spindle but have several ways of getting round that so thought they were worth a punt for the flexibility available.


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## Dalboy (5 Dec 2015)

CHJ":1yjtw3lj said:


> Just splashed out on this package:-
> Does not fit my machine spindle but have several ways of getting round that so thought they were worth a punt for the flexibility available.



Is there not anywhere to buy an adaptor to reduce the thread size


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## CHJ (5 Dec 2015)

Dalboy":fhp6b8o1 said:


> Is there not anywhere to buy an adaptor to reduce the thread size



There should be several somewhere for use with smaller spindles, seem to remember one make of chuck uses its 33mm thread for its supplied reducers.

My Machine is old school and has 1-1/2" X 6 thread.
Can make my own work around if necessary but easy option will probably be to just grip the supplied nose chuck in engineering jaws I have for 4 jaw scroll chuck. (plenty of bed length on my machine for spindle work)


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## chipmunk (7 Dec 2015)

You can bet that the short stub threads on the back of the drives will be a pretty standard size?

I might be tempted to throw the M33 x 3.5 nose part away if it didn't fit my lathe and make up a chuckable "lump" for my favourite jaw set that is threaded to take the drive centres. 

I'd have thought that was the work of a moment for a man of your talents, Chas.
Jon


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## CHJ (7 Dec 2015)

chipmunk":zwcaycvv said:


> .. make up a chuckable "lump" for my favourite jaw set that is threaded to take the drive centres.
> 
> I'd have thought that was the work of a moment ...
> Jon



We eagerly await the delivery, still not dispatched !!


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## henton49er (7 Dec 2015)

I have just bought the MT2 drive centre with the 1" head and a live centre for the tailstock with a 3/8" head. These two together were cheaper at £27 than the genuine tailstock stebcentre that I bought a couple of years ago at over £40. I hope the quality is OK!!!


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## chipmunk (8 Dec 2015)

henton49er":ni144694 said:


> I hope the quality is OK!!!



Well you pays your money and takes your chance like the rest of us ;-) 
...but to be fair the quality of mine are pretty good and certainly represent good value to me. They're cheaper than conventional 4-prong drives and 60-degree live centres.

I noticed yesterday that Axminster also do their own Steb clones now - I'm not sure whether you've seen them...
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-evolution-series-pro-drive-ax958631






Theirs are stainless but quite a bit more expensive than Chronos but I guess priced to undercut Sorby.
Jon


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## CHJ (9 Dec 2015)

chipmunk":2hqp9oau said:


> You can bet that the short stub threads on the back of the drives will be a pretty standard size?
> ..


They are M14 X 1.5mm.

Edit:-
No work necessary, runs perfectly in the engineering jaws in my SP Chuck so have just put them straight in the tool draw.

They are SHARP !! (DAMHKT) all spurs are fitted with spring loaded centres, only comment re-those, spring retainer/tensioning socket screws are not a tight fit or locked in, need watching or locking if used regularly.


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