# New Veritas Combination Plane



## Andy Kev. (20 Aug 2017)

I can imagine this finding its way onto a few Christmas present lists:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyTH78e7ZXA

It'll be interesting to read the first reviews when they appear.


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## knockknock (20 Aug 2017)

Some reading, the Veritas combination plane guide:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/html/Combin ... 7USpdf.pdf


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## AndyT (20 Aug 2017)

17 brass knobs!


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## G S Haydon (20 Aug 2017)

Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:


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## Glynne (20 Aug 2017)

Not sure I like to be called "brassy" Graham


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## AndyT (20 Aug 2017)

G S Haydon":24eqjv4k said:


> Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:



I was just getting in early before Jacob!

Seriously though, it's interesting that they see a demand for such a tool again. The surge in hand tool woodworking/ tool appreciation must be quite commercially visible in the US.

I guess it will have a hard time selling over here at that price, once it's converted into pounds, especially when the supply of good old combination planes seems so healthy. 

I'm sure it will be a very well made tool and the people who buy it will be pleased with it.


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## cowfoot (20 Aug 2017)

Wonder if the blades fit the small plough?


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## custard (20 Aug 2017)

Credit to Veritas for offering metric options. 

The way I make my drawers a precisely sized 4mm grooving cutter is often a lot faster than setting up the router table, making a test cut, adjusting the fence, making another test cut, etc, etc.


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## Andy Kev. (21 Aug 2017)

AndyT":15es6obh said:


> G S Haydon":15es6obh said:
> 
> 
> > Are you describing the target market, Andy? :lol:
> ...


I've just read that Classic Hand Tools is listing it at 4p shy of 370 quid. I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price? I have to admit that I can feel my Christmas bonus wobbling a bit. I don't think I could justify it at all out of normal funds.


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## Jacob (21 Aug 2017)

Andy Kev.":1edwycan said:


> .....the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, ....


I wouldn't count on it. They are quite likely to have built in some new minor faults and niggles of their own. Stanley and Record had massive production runs and tried many variations on themes to optimise quality.


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Andy Kev.":eg957zov said:


> I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price?



Think of it in the wider context of someone's _total_ tool budget. I suggested recently that a realistic budget for a furniture making hand tool kit might be around £2,000. Start including stuff like this and that total budget (for hand tools only) could easily rise to well over £5,000.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, people are entitled to spend their money any way they choose, but I'm pointing out that woodworking isn't a particularly cheap hobby. But if you aspire to these type of premium tools then there's no dodging the fact that it's a pretty pricey hobby! 

On a similar theme I heard last week that, based on their latest buying prices with a falling pound, a timber yard that I use regularly will be increasing the ex vat price of American Black Walnut to £110 a cubic foot, that's a 30% increase over the past year.

:shock:


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## bugbear (21 Aug 2017)

AndyT":2vwbfy7g said:


> I guess it will have a hard time selling over here at that price, once it's converted into pounds, especially when the supply of good old combination planes seems so healthy.


Yes - a #405, in box, is rather reasonably priced, even in very good nick.

BugBear


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## deema (21 Aug 2017)

The best news is that the cutters are compatible with both the 45 and 55 planes.


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## Vann (21 Aug 2017)

AndyT":175aicfc said:


> ...Seriously though, it's interesting that they see a demand for such a tool again. The surge in hand tool woodworking/ tool appreciation must be quite commercially visible in the US...


Interesting too that it's come out about a year after the Clifton multi-plane (a 45/405 clone) went out of stock.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Eric The Viking (21 Aug 2017)

The worst news is that you'll be paying well north of $700 to own the complete kit.

I thought, "That's nice. At last a combination plane for us lefties!" 

And there's no doubt of the Veritas commitment to quality - it will be a lovely thing to use, I expect. And what a pleasant alternative to using a powered router!

But I can't imagine any circumstances in which I could afford even the simplest version of it. I'm sure Lee Valley know their market, and I'm sure they'll sell truckloads in North America. But not to me, over here.

I _might_, however buy one of the reeding cutters, on its own, as it would solve a rather annoying problem, when used in a simple wooden body. 

Daft world, innit?


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## Cheshirechappie (21 Aug 2017)

Clifton ceased production of their multi-plane, presumably because of low sales volume. The price, once you add up the Veritas bits to make the standard kit Clifton supplied, was not far off comparable.

My bet is that most combination planes, new or vintage, will spend 95% of their time in use ploughing grooves. How many fluting or reeding cutters actually get used I have no idea, but I'll bet it's not many!

No doubt the fan boys will make it worth Lee Valley's while to make the thing, but I can't help feeling that buying a decent plough plane will be all most people actually need, perhaps supplemented at some point by a beading plane or two.

I suppose it's nice that it's available, but it's a complicated and expensive way of doing things that simpler, cheaper tools can do better, for me.

(Edit - Ha! I see Vann and Eric beat me to it!)


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## Cheshirechappie (21 Aug 2017)

Eric The Viking":31gaznmc said:


> I _might_, however buy one of the reeding cutters, on its own, as it would solve a rather annoying problem, when used in a simple wooden body.



Thomas Flinn are selling off surplus Clifton multi-plane cutters, so you may find what you need there;

http://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/aca ... ml#SID=454


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Cheshirechappie":2fjeu9f4 said:


> I can't help feeling that buying a decent plough plane will be all most people actually need



If you stand back and look at real life furniture making you'll see the task you'll be doing most is cutting rebates. Across a range of typical projects that might account for more than half of actual use for this tool.

But here's the catch. A fair percentage of those rebates will be _stopped_ rather than _through_ rebates. And planes of any description just aren't that great for stopped work. I'm not saying they can't be cut with a plane, but I am saying they're a right old faff. That's why old school makers would go to extraordinary lengths to try and minimise the incidence of stopped rebates (and stopped housing) at the design stage, because they recognised stopped anything slows you down to a crawl.

Enter the powered plunge router. The plunge router is _excellent_ at stopped work. Yes, I know they're noisy and spew dust around, but once you've cut a few stopped rebates and housings by hand you'll quickly get bored of the bucolic fantasy, eespecially after you mess up and your stopped rebate bursts out to inadvertently become a through rebate!

The next category of cutter that you may well use most often is a bead. If you're a joiner you need some big ones, and if you're a furniture maker you need some small ones, just one or two in either case is all you'll ever use. And when it comes to beads there's an awfully good argument to be made for a scratch stock.

Just sayin'


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## Jacob (21 Aug 2017)

custard":113mqa8f said:


> ...
> But here's the catch. A fair percentage of those rebates will be _stopped_ rather than _through_ rebates. ...


Really? Where, why? 
In the normal way of things a stopped rebate is a design mistake requiring an afterthought, or, rarely, an alteration to something existing.
I'd say old school makers (and new ones) would/should go to _sensible_ lengths to optimise their efforts.
Cutting rebates by hand is best done with the woody skew rebate plane - which are still available in vast numbers very cheap.
Or an old Stanley 78 - a very effective, cheap and under-rated tool. The secret is to use the fence and the scribe just to start a cut, and take them off once it's going.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 Aug 2017)

I have been using the new Combo for nearly a year now. As many here are aware, I have test driven a number of Lee Valley/Veritas tools pre-production for over a decade. 

My personal philosophy in regard to planes is that I prefer planes dedicated to a specific task, however there is much to be said for a plough that can do grooves for drawers, cross grain housings (dados), and also beads. These are simple cuts, however they demand specific and different requirements. 

The groove is the simplest to make. Grab a Record #044, Record/Rapier #043, Stanley #50, or Veritas Small Plow. All but the last one are available on the second hand market, and all will do the job. The Small Plow is the nicest to use in my opinion (I have owned all those mentioned), but new planes seem to be more expensive in the UK than even Australia, and so it is likely to be a luxury item for many. 

None of these planes are suited to plane cross grain as they do not have a nicker to prevent spelching. So enter combo planes such as the Stanley #45, and now the Veritas Combo (when it was first on the drawing board, three years ago, it was going to be called the Large Plow). 

Ignoring all the combination stuff on the Combo plane, it has the ability to plane with- and across the grain. It has nickers on the twin skates (as per the #45), and it has wonderful depth stops with fine adjusters on each as well. I like its ergonomics - the handle is a good size and the whole plane is well balanced. 

The #45 and the Combo both do beads. Now I am fan of scratch stocks - beading planes tend to tear out horribly in the West Australian interlocked timbers. I posted a while back my experience in using back bevels on the beading cutters (when these blades were introduced for the Small Plow), and this method does make these planes viable users. Still, a simple scratch stock is hard to beat in terms of cost and ease of use.

The argument is that a #45 can do everything that the Combo can do, and there are many available far more cheaply than a new Combo. Absolutely true. Still there is a market for both - some will prefer the lower cost or the vintage aura of the #45, while some want new and ready-to-use, and are willing to pay for this. 

Bottom line: the Veritas Combo is a very nice plane - taut and balanced in the hand, and everything works just as one would expect for the price of admission. 

Some pics:

Combo vs Small Plow ...







Ploughing flutes into the grain ...






Grooving ...











Cross grain ...











Regards from Perth

Derek


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Useful post Derek, the cross grain work looks incredibly clean.


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Jacob":1xigwl21 said:


> custard":1xigwl21 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Stopped groove. A panel let into a leg.

Stopped housing. A drawer chest with solid sides.

Stopped rebate. A dovetailed cabinet carcase.


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## knockknock (21 Aug 2017)

custard":1c8x6lah said:


> Jacob":1c8x6lah said:
> 
> 
> > custard":1c8x6lah said:
> ...


Off the top of my head:

1) Stopped groove. A panel let into a leg.

Taper the leg below the bottom rail and optionally fill (the exit of the groove won't be very visible from normal viewing angles). Top of leg and top of top rail flush.

2) Stopped housing. A drawer chest with solid sides.

Dovetail in a face piece drawer divider where the dado exits.

3) Stopped rebate. A dovetailed cabinet carcase.

Half lap the pin/tail where the rabbet is (the pin/tail should be wide to cover the rabbet).


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## Random Orbital Bob (21 Aug 2017)

I might be missing the point here but my understanding of Custard's point was to underscore that using stopped cuts were a faff and time consuming when performed with a plane. So in the production of furniture, professionally, where time consumption is money, why would you go to the time penalty lengths of all those alternatives you've just suggested when a plunge router can provide the efficiency needed and avoid unnecessary tapers, dovetails etc all of which are inefficient in terms of time?


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Wot Bob said!

Knocknock, you're just confirming my original point about, "makers would go to extraordinary lengths to try and minimise the incidence of stopped rebates".

Back in the real world of trying to earn a living from furniture making, I'm going to reach for a Festool OF1400 every single time, it's probably cheaper than this plough!


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## knockknock (21 Aug 2017)

Okay, I missed the point. In my world, I don't use power tools (except my cordless drill).


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## Vann (21 Aug 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> ...None of these planes are suited to plane cross grain as *they do not have a nicker to prevent spelching*. So enter combo planes such as the Stanley #45, and now the Veritas Combo...


As do the Stanley #50/Record #050 combination planes. But I do like the look of the knicker on this new plane - it looks _much_ easier to use.

Cheers, Vann.


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## AndyT (21 Aug 2017)

Looking at the user guide, I see that Veritas show a Stanley 45 as the design inspiration. That makes sense - it's something their main market is likely to have heard of and maybe be familiar with. But looking at the pictures, I think it shows more of a family resemblance to the 1980s Record 050C family. 

Borrowing one of Derek's pictures for a moment,







and one of my own,






there are several similarities. I'm not saying this to talk down the Veritas offering - I rather like the look of it - but just to agree with recent posts on here where people have appreciated the later Record models. 

However, I am pleased that Veritas had the sense not to copy the Record forward-leaning plastic handle!


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## custard (21 Aug 2017)

Vann":hbnkvx6z said:


> I do like the look of the knicker on this new plane - it looks _much_ easier to use.



I think you're right. I've generally found that to be the Achilles Heal of older multi-planes, along with the locking screws.






This is the Stanley 55 that lives in my workshop. As a means of entertainment while waiting for a glue-up to set, it absolutely has no equal. But as a route to hitting a deadline or delivering quality work? Not so much.

Despite plenty of fiddling I've never been able to get the nickers to work consistently or line up _exactly_ with the main cutter, which means the cross grain results are pretty rubbish. However, Derek's housings look as clean as a whistle. The other failing with the 55 is I need to nip everything up with a pair of pliers for it to stay put...and I'm not feeble fingered! Whereas, a pound to a penny, I bet that Veritas tool will lock down tight with just a modest tweak.

Still way too expensive for me, but I wouldn't necessarily try and substitute with an older equivalent either. But hey ho, each to their own, and as I said, for pure entertainment value a super-duper plough knocks Angry Birds into a cocked hat!


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## Jacob (21 Aug 2017)

custard":37bqahpp said:


> Wot Bob said!
> 
> Knocknock, you're just confirming my original point about, "makers would go to extraordinary lengths to try and minimise the incidence of stopped rebates".
> 
> Back in the real world of trying to earn a living from furniture making, I'm going to reach for a Festool OF1400 every single time, it's probably cheaper than this plough!


My point is - you don't need to go to extraordinary lengths to avoid a stopped rebates, it's easy to design out at the beginning. If you find you need a stopped rebate you have made a design mistake - unless you are a stone mason!
Stopped housings are common (hinge pockets etc), slots less so. 
I don't think I've ever encountered a stopped rebate or slot in traditional stuff - I don't think much effort was required to minimise the incidence.

PS re nickers - they are no good as cutters but very useful as markers - the whole tool acts as a marking gauge. Once the rebate is started you don't need nicker or fence, in fact they get in the way - the rebate itself, and the gauge marks, are now the guide.

PPS -without the nicker the cut tends to drift away from the side but this is no prob - the last pass (or two) is from the other direction so you end up with both sides of the rebate planed. I worked this out from looking at window frame rebates which were clearly done with simple woody skew rebate planes with no nickers (or is it knickers? :shock: ). There are loads of them about (often worn right down) as knickerless rebating was a major operation.


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## G S Haydon (21 Aug 2017)

Congrats, Andy. You did get there first . As a purchase of pure enjoyment, I'm sure the Veritas will be excellent. The individual will be able to choose if it's going to be a good choice. To anyone who's a bit green and starting out, my tip would be don't be in a hurry to purchase one. As others have pointed out, it's unlikely to be needed.

Good spot on the Record - Veritas genes, It seems likely the Record was the foundation.


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## Cheshirechappie (21 Aug 2017)

I'm not convinced that a combination plane would be good for rebating - it's got no sole.

I've used one for ploughing (which it did well) but never for anything else. Anybody tried rebating with one?


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## CStanford (21 Aug 2017)

Cheshirechappie":1qy7k9v5 said:


> I'm not convinced that a combination plane would be good for rebating - it's got no sole.
> 
> I've used one for ploughing (which it did well) but never for anything else. Anybody tried rebating with one?



I have and it's clumsy at best.


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## Andy Kev. (22 Aug 2017)

custard":3dfbcz9e said:


> Vann":3dfbcz9e said:
> 
> 
> > I do like the look of the knicker on this new plane - it looks _much_ easier to use.
> ...


That was what I meant when I posed my question above: as a pro you've made a pretty good case for the (probable) advantages of the Veritas but you're nonetheless not convinced that it's worth laying down your hard earned cash for it. This is perhaps a bit ironic because it looks like it's designed to meet professional requirements but it is perhaps likely to be predominantly bought by amateurs who can afford to indulge in their hobby.


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## PAC1 (22 Aug 2017)

I am pleased to see them try to upgrade the combination plane. I would have thought that to be successful it needs to do what was originally intended - moulding. A few reading and fluting cutters do not justify the expense. They need more choices.
The combination plane has never been the best rebate plane and most people buying this will already have a rebate plane.
I do like the cross grain housings that Derek demonstrated.
I like the fact that cutters will be interchangeable.
Do they have a plan for a set of Rounds and Hollows along with a skate attachment for the purpose?


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Aug 2017)

Andy Kev.":6u9t84yc said:


> That was what I meant when I posed my question above: as a pro you've made a pretty good case for the (probable) advantages of the Veritas but you're nonetheless not convinced that it's worth laying down your hard earned cash for it. This is perhaps a bit ironic because it looks like it's designed to meet professional requirements but it is perhaps likely to be predominantly bought by amateurs who can afford to indulge in their hobby.



I wonder if that is primarily the market they aim for? There are a large number of people on UKW who own Qangsheng, LV, Veritas etc. that are not professional users. (Me not being one of them  ), although of course the pros have the advantage of putting their tools against their expenses, which takes the edge off the price.


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2017)

Andy Kev.":38x7w1j4 said:


> ...... it looks like it's designed to meet professional requirements but it is perhaps likely to be predominantly bought by amateurs who can afford to indulge in their hobby.


Absolutely. It's for wealthy amateurs. A pro would use a spindle - cheapest, fastest and most accurate way to do very many things. 
There are eccentric 'pros' of course, who think there is some special virtue in using hand tools, which is true if the power goes, or for the occasional odd job when a hand tool is the most practical way of doing something.
I've had a Stanley combi for about 30 years - nothing wrong with it but it's hardly been out of the box! Most of the fancier hand tools are aimed at the wealthy amateur market - including all those fancy woodies which turn up often for sale, mainly because they were never used - they wouldn't have survived under production conditions!


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## AndyT (22 Aug 2017)

Cheshirechappie":211nie67 said:


> I'm not convinced that a combination plane would be good for rebating - it's got no sole.
> 
> I've used one for ploughing (which it did well) but never for anything else. Anybody tried rebating with one?



I've spent a little while doing some experiments to try to answer this question. 
So as not to take this thread too far off the specific topic of the Veritas plane, I've started a new thread rebating-with-a-combination-plane-t107307.html


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (22 Aug 2017)

Custard, the secret to clean housings across the grain - whether a dado or rebate - is the alignment of the nicker with the blade. Plus, of course, both must be sharp.

The Veritas Combo makes it easier to adjust these - and to ensure that the settings are repeatable. That is down to the use of set screws for both (which is kind of a Veritas thing).

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> ... the secret to clean housings across the grain - whether a dado or rebate - is the alignment of the nicker with the blade. .....


Or simpler - use any rebate plane, without any accessories attached, and make the cut both ways, to gauge or knifed lines.
i.e. you plane the rebate to the edge line and as close to the face line as you can, then turn it to finish the 'wall' with one or two passes.
Saves a lot of time fiddling about and no need for another expensive plane!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (22 Aug 2017)

Of course, Jacob. Knife the lines. Plane close. Knife a bit more to deepen the line. Plane again. Then turn the plane to the horizontal and plane to the lines to clean up. Now plane some more in the vertical. Don't forget to knife the lines to make it easier to plane down. Then repeat planing to the wall in the horizontal. Do it over again ...

Or, you could do it on one go with a nickered plane. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2017)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Of course, Jacob. Knife the lines. Plane close. Knife a bit more to deepen the line. Plane again. Then turn the plane to the horizontal and plane to the lines to clean up. Now plane some more in the vertical. Don't forget to knife the lines to make it easier to plane down. Then repeat planing to the wall in the horizontal. Do it over again ...
> 
> Or, you could do it on one go with a nickered plane.
> 
> ...


No you haven't quite got it Derek:
You knife the lines with the nicker (or a gauge, knife, anything). 
Then start the rebate.
After one pass you have an edge and you can remove the nicker, fence etc - or start to use any rebate plane without them.
Subsequent passes tend to be away from the wall but you carry on until you hit the line of the floor.
Then you turn the plane for the last pass (or two) to clean up the wall.
It's very simple and effective, though I admit; not obvious.
If you only have a rebate plane with no attachments you work to gauge/knife lines, but start the cut slightly away from the top line (using thumb as a fence), which you don't finish until you get to the last passes, as above.
Just because a tool has attachments, bells, whistles, brass knobs, it doesn't mean you _must_ use them and you may even find it's easier if you just bin them once and for all!


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## Mangokid (22 Aug 2017)

There seems to be quite a bit of enthusiasm for this new veritas plane on the US forums, decidedly less so here, judging by this topics replies. I find that interesting, from the point of view of someone who doesn't yet own a plough/combination plane but would like one soon.

Just curious if anyone is actually planning to buy one when it is released? 

Would be nice to see a review not linked to a magazine etc, or by someone linked to veritas.


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## AndyT (22 Aug 2017)

Could I just suggest that all generalisations are false? :wink: 

Although a dedicated rebate plane such as the Stanley 78 is good for rebates, it won't cut these housings


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## PAC1 (22 Aug 2017)

Mangokid":olri9dxx said:


> There seems to be quite a bit of enthusiasm for this new veritas plane on the US forums, decidedly less so here, judging by this topics replies. I find that interesting, from the point of view of someone who doesn't yet own a plough/combination plane but would like one soon.
> 
> Just curious if anyone is actually planning to buy one when it is released?
> 
> Would be nice to see a review not linked to a magazine etc, or by someone linked to veritas.


I think if you are in the market for a combination plane then, sure give this serious consideration. As is typical with Veritas they do improve rather than copy, so I have no doubt it is much better than my old 45. The (k)nickers and screw adjustments look far better and as has been said no doubt it locks down properly rather than sliding over as you work away (as the 45 does). I looked at all the options when I bought their Router plane which is a vast improvement on Stanley, Record and even LN! But bear in mind a combination plane is a compromise tool that does not cut rebates as well as a dedicated rebate plane and as long as time is not money setting up a combination plane is interesting (it is easy to see why an electric router is so popular). Hopefully they will increase the range of cutters.
The cost is about 2 to 3 times the price of a 45 with most of its fences and cutters from an internet market, but the Veritas only comes with one cutter! It is about the same price as my largest electric router.
I thought Derek's review was good.


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## Mangokid (22 Aug 2017)

> I think if you are in the market for a combination plane then, sure give this serious consideration. As is typical with Veritas they do improve rather than copy, so I have no doubt it is much better than my old 45. The (k)nickers and screw adjustments look far better and as has been said no doubt it locks down properly rather than sliding over as you work away (as the 45 does). I looked at all the options when I bought their Router plane which is a vast improvement on Stanley, Record and even LN! But bear in mind a combination plane is a compromise tool that does not cut rebates as well as a dedicated rebate plane and as long as time is not money setting up a combination plane is interesting (it is easy to see why an electric router is so popular). Hopefully they will increase the range of cutters.
> The cost is about 2 to 3 times the price of a 45 with most of its fences and cutters from an internet market, but the Veritas only comes with one cutter! It is about the same price as my largest electric router.
> I thought Derek's review was good.



Thanks, certainly not ruling out a 45 or similar and not at all knocking derek'sreview, I thought it was great and very interesting to read. Just nice to get others views also if anyone is planning to buy it.


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## bertikus_maximus (24 Aug 2017)

From the pdf factsheet "_And, although the Stanley #45 remains a beautiful example of ornate Victorian metalwork, it is nevertheless not the easiest plane to set up or use_".

Now, I can't comment for certain - having only just seen the video of this plane - but something tells me having 17 brass knobs might meant that woodworkers will share a similar sentiment about this new Veritas version!


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## swagman (24 Aug 2017)

Middle Pitch would have been a smart move.


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## Andy Kev. (25 Aug 2017)

custard":2uilakma said:


> Andy Kev.":2uilakma said:
> 
> 
> > I suppose the key question is that if Veritas has indeed ironed out the minor faults or niggles which are sometimes attributed to the Stanleys and Records, will people feel that the resultant reliability and accuracy are worth the price?
> ...


Prompted by your pic of that rather lovely moving fillister from Philly Planes on the other thread, I had a look and it's a fiver more than the Veritas!!!

Obviously a pro has totally different criteria to the amateur but if you had neither and were considering one, would you get the PP which is meant to do one job and does it well or the V which does more things presumably equally well?


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## Andy Kev. (21 Sep 2017)

For those who may be interested, here's a video explaining the plane in detail.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-5vbSCnCLg


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## D_W (21 Sep 2017)

I'd kind of like an accounting in a decade of how many of these planes actually got used to "make a short run of moulding". 

That sounds like a great idea until you try to do it, and then do it again with real moulding planes and find out how easy the real moulding planes are to use. 

A plow plane and a small set of moulding planes would be about the same price as a combination plane with a whole bunch of blades.


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## Andy Kev. (21 Sep 2017)

I wonder where the notion comes from that combination planes can replace moulding planes. By that I mean mouldings which are more complex than simple beading etc. Has anybody ever produced a combination plane which can do what a set of hollows and rounds can do? Is it indeed actually possible to use a combination plane in that way?


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## swagman (22 Sep 2017)

Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.


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## Andy Kev. (22 Sep 2017)

swagman":3omsl34w said:


> Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.


I had to grin at that because I'm not technically competent enough to make those kind of considerations. And I've never even set eyes on a piece of basswood, let alone handled one!

Could you perhaps spell it out for me (and any others who may be clueless)?

What I was actually driving at was the notion that I've sometimes read that combination planes replaced moulding planes when they were introduced, but I've never heard of a combination plane with complex blades and I understand that attempts to produce hollows and rounds shapes have been limited. Has anybody ever attempted to produce e.g. a metal hollows and rounds and/or moulding plane with a lot of interchangeable soles in the manner of the Bridge City Tools small combination plane?


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## swagman (22 Sep 2017)

Andy Kev.":2qzqqglh said:


> swagman":2qzqqglh said:
> 
> 
> > Have a look at the higher bed angles traditionally used on wooden rebate and moulding planes and ask yourself why Veritas chose to repeat Stanley's mistake of bedding their combo plane at 45 degrees. There's valid reasons why Basswood is the chosen wood species to demonstrate this planes versatility at tool shows in the USA and Canada.
> ...



http://www.wood-database.com/basswood/

_The No. 55 came with hollow and round cutters. The No. 45 had a set of four hollow and round soles, and a nosing attachment ( see illustration above ) that could be ordered for the plane_. http://www.jonzimmersantiquetools.com/f ... combo.html


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## Andy Kev. (22 Sep 2017)

Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.

I can imagine a metal plane with interchangeable soles for different profile blades (including of course all the H and Rs) but it would probably be too expensive to produce or there would be too little demand and of course the electric router is dominant in this area.


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## Jacob (24 Sep 2017)

Andy Kev.":1yo2km9c said:


> Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.
> 
> I can imagine a metal plane with interchangeable soles for different profile blades (including of course all the H and Rs) but it would probably be too expensive to produce or there would be too little demand and of course the electric router is dominant in this area.


Even more dominant is the spindle moulder - if you've got into making your own cutters. They work out much cheaper than router cutters, perfect replicas can be made, can be adapted how you like, and the machine is vastly more productive and easier to use than a router. 

Planing/chiselling/sharpening demos cheating with 'basswood' or similar - there are several well known "experts" who do this on youtube and in the mags. Low level fraud - especially if they are trying to sell something!


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## swagman (24 Sep 2017)

> Planing/chiselling/sharpening demos cheating with 'basswood' or similar - there are several well known "experts" who do this on youtube and in the mags. Low level fraud - especially if they are trying to sell something!



Amen to that Jacob. Some well known white collar workers is my usual reference.


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## D_W (24 Sep 2017)

bertikus_maximus":2td7kek4 said:


> From the pdf factsheet "_And, although the Stanley #45 remains a beautiful example of ornate Victorian metalwork, it is nevertheless not the easiest plane to set up or use_".
> 
> Now, I can't comment for certain - having only just seen the video of this plane - but something tells me having 17 brass knobs might meant that woodworkers will share a similar sentiment about this new Veritas version!



I've had 45s, 46s and a 55. 

I never thought much about difficulty in setting up with the 45 - it was kind of easy to use, but clattery and no sole other than a skate. That was it's biggest problem. 

The 55 was the one that was trouble to set up.


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## Andy Kev. (25 Sep 2017)

Jacob":2xchy797 said:


> Andy Kev.":2xchy797 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Swagman. So basswood is lime! That explains a few things.
> ...


I'm not too interested in machines - although I do intend to get a bandsaw someday - and I would like to experiment with hollows and rounds. I think it's fascinating that so many different shapes can be produced from just two shapes of cutter.


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