# The (almost) no plans bench build



## Doingupthehouse (9 Apr 2018)

As promised in another thread, I'm starting a WIP bench build. This one's a little unusual, as against all the advice of people far more experienced and competent than me, I'm building it without the aid of any formal plans.

I'm also trying to build it for under £70 if possible, and definitely under £100. There's a strong possibility it may end up on the woodburner after all! 

This is just a bit of a fun project really - if it doesn't work out, I'm not really that worried. Progress may be very slow, as I've got lots of other projects on the go and regularly get very busy at work.

This definitely won't be a hand-tool only build, far from it in fact. There are a couple of very admirable hand tool bench builds going on here anyway.

My criteria for the bench - other than being cheap - are:
Mass, want it as heavy as the softwood I'm using will allow.
No wider than 600mm as its going against a wall and I need to reach tool cupboard etc above it.
No tail vice, don't think I'll need one - could always add later or use Wonder dogs etc
Possibly split-top, not decided.
Aprons for rigidity. Aprons also flush with legs.
Must have adjustable feet - my floor is very uneven. Thought this would be a stability issue, the multi-purpose bench I built has them and doesn't move an inch, even when heavy planing.
Want a shelf underneath for added mass and much-needed storage space.
Not riddled with dog holes - some well placed holdfast holes.
Definitely no tool well.

I'm weighing the components as I go along, trying to ascertain the final weight, I'll also keep a running total of the cost.

Anyway on with the build...

Started off with a (very rough) sketch of the sort of thing I have in mind. This is not in proportion, but it doesn't matter. Then I scribbled on the overall dimensions. Other dimensions are being added as I go along. You could argue that this is a plan, but most of these dimensions were added after I started cutting timber and I just scribble things on or rub them out as they come into my head.






After I'd worked out the size of overhang I thought looked right I could start on the base as I then knew how long to cut the stretchers.





Started by milling up some rough timber. The Ash and Iroko in the picture have nothing to do with the bench.
The timber for the base came from a distribution warehouse that was selling it off very cheaply. I got eight 2.4m 3 x 3s and four 1m 6x6s for £20. It's rough! Strangely enough, the 3x3s, in particular, work very nicely. The legs were a bit of a handful over the planer, but manageable.

I cut the legs to length on My chop saw, had to cut from both sides. It struck me how well the DeWalt XPS coped with this. I bought it over three years ago, set it up, and haven't adjusted it since. The cuts were perfectly square in both directions, with almost no perceptible step where it was turned over - even with an 80 tooth blade that I thought might struggle.






I then jointed edges on some of the 3x3s with a hand plane to remove machine marks before laminating together to form the rails for the leg frames. I used a few dominoes just to aid alignment.






Then it was onto the mortices, pondered what size to cut the leg mortices and went for roughly a third of the finished leg width of 140mm - 45mm wide mortices were not the easy option! The time to decide how to cut them -Timber is too big for my little morticer. I was going to cut the the usual drill and chop route when I remembered the pocket cutter I bought from Weadlen when I fitted a load of new doors. I wanted to cut the mortices about 80mm deep and sure enough, with the cutter inserted into the collet up to the minimum insertion mark, just about enough depth.






Only problem with this, I cant use the dust extraction collar for the last couple of centimetres of plunge because the collet contacts it. Using the router cutter meant I could set a Heath Robinson jig and not need to mark all the mortice positions.






Soon realised the jig interfered with the dust collection attachment!






Soon sorted with a saw and chisel.

I then routed the first pass to full depth on all of the legs, then hogged out most of the waste before doing the final pass on all the legs with the router on the same setting - this should guarantee they all line up and are the same size.

This was very hard work! The leg timber is Resin City - the workshop now smells like a turpentine factory! Had to clean the bit in acetone every few minutes. I was glad of the ratchet locking and unlocking on the router. Also, being able to remove the dust collector without removing the bit was a godsend, as I had to plunge the last couple of centimetres without it fitted - lots of stopping and vacuuming out the mortice.

Then just a matter of squaring them off with a chisel. Again had to clean the chisel with acetone frequently - I discovered a sticky-back chisel doesn't work very well! Had to sharpen a few of times as well due to the knots. Took me a couple of hours to cut 4 mortices and still 8 to go - still no rush, but I reckon a skilled hand worker could probably do it faster.






Anyway this is where I'm up to now... onwards and upwards





Need to decide if I'm going to paint the base. The legs have a lot of heartwood shakes, which I really like the look of - but not sure they'd look right painted over. Then again I have got a can of horrible chalk paint to finish up... hmmm

Also, I need to decide whether to drawbore or not. Not sure it's worth it in pine - but I've never done them before so interested to give it a go.

Total time so far: about 12hrs
Total cost so far: about £14
Total weight so far: 34.2 kilos (but have only weighed the legs)

I'll stop now, hopefully future posts will be much shorter!

Cheers
Simon


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## MikeG. (9 Apr 2018)

You say "no plans" and then went and produced plans! Frankly, what else does anyone need other than a sketch like yours?


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## Doingupthehouse (9 Apr 2018)

MikeG.":3o3fl33u said:


> You say "no plans" and then went and produced plans! Frankly, what else does anyone need other than a sketch like yours?



Maybe, but it did only have the overall width, height and depth before I started cutting timber... I'm filling in the blanks as I go.


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## Dandan (9 Apr 2018)

This looks very promising, I might have to let you make all the development mistakes and then copy the finished article...


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## custard (9 Apr 2018)

Plans or no plans it looks a cracking project, so the best of British!

Personally I'd say a definite yes to a slot down the middle, mainly because it'll give you the work holding option detailed in this thread,

topic111709.html

just make sure the slot is wide enough to accommodate the foot width on super size F Cramps.

What are "Conveyor Feet"?


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## dzj (9 Apr 2018)

Plans or no plans , that's coming along nicely, I'm sure it'll be a fine bench!
Just wondering, has anyone made a bench of this kind without any joinery,
just glue and bolts?


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## MikeG. (9 Apr 2018)

dzj":29yx55qm said:


> Plans or no plans ..........just wondering, has anyone made a bench of this kind without any joinery,
> just glue and bolts?



That won't work. Without shoulders, there'll always (or at least, eventually) be rotation, and thus racking. Even a few quarter-laps with bolts (and glue) would work, though. Shoulders are everything when it comes to racking resistance.


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## Doingupthehouse (9 Apr 2018)

custard":1bd92xhs said:


> Plans or no plans it looks a cracking project, so the best of British!
> 
> Personally I'd say a definite yes to a slot down the middle, mainly because it'll give you the work holding option detailed in this thread,
> 
> ...



Thanks Custard,

Just another name for machinery feet like this
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/X4-M12-HEAVY-D ... Fsy4ckeHwA


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## Lons (9 Apr 2018)

Love it Simon, a great read, thanks for sharing, keep the pics coming.

Many of my plans unless dimensions or design are critical are exactly like yours and evolve as I go along.

cheers
Bob


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## Doingupthehouse (9 Apr 2018)

Cheers Bob,

I’ve changed the heading for this thread slightly... 

I think once you’ve got a few components assembled you start taking measurements directly from them anyway and rarely use a measuring implement. I think I’d want a more detailed plan if I were purchasing expensive timber for the job - just so I didn’t under or over order. I find this particularly important with sheet materials where cut optimisation can make a huge difference. 

Cheers
Simon


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## Geoff_S (9 Apr 2018)

I trust you will be framing that "sketch" when you've done?


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## thetyreman (10 Apr 2018)

it looks like the classic english workbench, this should be great, look forward to seeing it complete


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## Doingupthehouse (10 Apr 2018)

Managed to get an hour or so in the workshop tonight. Got another jig made for the top leg mortices and got the first pass on each one cut. Subsequent passes go much faster as I can make multiple passes before moving the jig to the next leg. 










Had a bit of a wobble on the first one as I forgot to fix the jig to the top of the leg #-o Not to worry I just need to pare the mortice a millimetre or two wider when I clean them up. Think I’ll need to give the router cutter a touch up with the diamond card as it’s getting a little dull.

Hogging out the bulk of the waste is much easier after the first pass as there’s more space for the chips to escape. 

The mortices for the front stretchers will be a lot smaller, they’re also going to be closer to the edge of the leg. I’m thinking I might just be able to cut them on my morticer with a little creative clamping - if I can find the riser block for it... I hope so as this heavy duty routing gets a little tedious. 

Don’t know if there will be much more this week as it’s Masterchef finals  

Vice weighed in at 16 kilos so:
Total weight now 50kg
Total time - 13.5hrs

Cheers
Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (14 Apr 2018)

This should do it!

Managed to source the timber for the top and aprons on Gumtree for not very much money. An added bonus was 9 lengths gratis. He was giving away some that had been stored outside, so a little wet. I could have had some more but couldn’t fit it in the car. 






I originally planed to get my timber elsewhere, but I couldn’t self-select - it was delivery only - and judging by the photos of it sorting though it was pretty essential! This timber is a little smaller in section, so my top will be just under 60mm thick rather than 80mm as planned. Will mean my bearers will have to go on top of the leg frames as Paul Sellars does - to keep the height the same. Not what I originally had in mind, but makes no real difference.

Have also decided to lengthen the bench by about 6 inches

I was expecting to have to go though the seller’s pile and pull out the straight ones, but they were all straight! Some of the nicest CLS I’ve had. 

Made the mistake of leaving it on the drive for a couple of hours while I did something else - mistake. Came back to find them covered in bird [email protected], bright green bird [email protected], bright green bird [email protected] that stains when you try and wipe it off :roll: 

Have it all stacked in the workshop now. 






I’m not going to get the bench in under £70 now, as I blew the budget on some heavy duty adjustable feet - they cost me £20. I have all the materials now and am confident I can make it for £90-£100. Will increment the total cost as I use the timber, as I bought more than I need and will use on other projects as well. 

Itching to get back to it, but have to lay some artificial grass first  

Total cost: £34
Total time: 15hrs including traveling time.

Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (22 Apr 2018)

Finally got some time on the bench at last. 

Finished all the big mortices in the legs and set about cutting the smaller ones for the front and back stretchers fit into. Managed to mark them all up on the wrong side of the legs! Fortunately I only cut one before I noticed. #-o 

Had to cut a patch to fit in. Luckily my error will be completely hidden under the shelf, so no need to be too neat or match grain. 






After cutting these four mortices, I moved on to the big angled leg to apron lap joints ( what’s the proper name for this joint?) first I marked out the joint with a sliding bevel - no idea what angle I used, as it was just eyeballed. Then I used my exact width housing jig, lining it up with the marked angle. I routed a slot and removed enough material to provide space for my bandsaw blade to clear without cutting into the leg.










Then it was simply a matter of bandsawing off the waste.






I could have used a router to clean up after the bandsaw, but it was faster and a lot more enjoyable to level up the joints with hand planes. 

Soon had all four joints cut - well the leg sides anyway. 






Not much else to report. I chamfered the bottom of the legs. And the adjustable feet turned up. These will simply screw into M14 tee nuts. 






The feet are 100mm wide and rated for 750kg per foot, so should be man enough for the job!

Really enjoying this project so far, I even managed to laugh when I made my c*ck up. I’ve also realised how well my existing workbench works, it’s handled everything I’ve thrown at it. Built it a couple of years ago. I put my straight edge on yesterday and I still can’t get a piece of paper under it - torsion boxes really work well. Will be nice to have it as a dedicated outfeed/assembly/MFT table though...






Hopefully I can start on the tenons soon, then I can begin some assembly. 

Total time: 21hrs
Total cost: £54
Total weight: a little bit less than the last weigh-in as I’ve removed a fair bit of material for the joinery. Will weigh again soon.


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## Doingupthehouse (27 Apr 2018)

Have had the odd hour or two here and there to work on the bench. Have started cutting the tenons for the leg joints.

After I cutting the rails to length, I marked out the tenons with a knife and marking gauges. I then cut the shoulders shy of the lines with a hand saw, followed by the cheeks on the band saw.










I made a jig for the router table to cut the shoulders square. The base of the jig was cut using the router cutter, so helps to guarantee accuracy. Heres a pic, but it's subsequently been fitted with a taller, stouter sub fence to aid clamping.






Simply a matter of aligning the knife lines with the edge of the jig, clamping in place, and cutting. I used a stop block on the fence so I could cut every face the same. I can thoroughly recommend the large 4-wing tenon cutter from Wealdens, had it a couple of years and the cut quality always impresses me.






I cut routed them slightly fat and used hand tools to tweak the fit to each mortice. I also needed a tiny bit of fettling with a shoulder plane to get a nice tight joint line.






Very happy withe the joints so far, good and tight and dead square. Have done a dry fit of one leg frame. Feel like I'm making progress now.










Onwards to the glue-up and the tenons for the second leg frame...

Time: 27hrs
Weight: 65kg
Cost: £54


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## Doingupthehouse (1 May 2018)

Started the glue up of the bench. Used Titebond hide glue for this, and found it excellent. Warmed the glue in some warm water as the workshop was a little on the cool side. I found it far easier than PVA when bringing the tight joints together. 






The bearers for the top were dominoed into the legs and rails. This glue-up was pretty uneventful. 






Then cut the tenons on the long stretchers. Decided to cut these by hand, well almost, I cut the cheeks on the bandsaw. 






Glueing the frames and stretchers together was slightly more eventful...

I cracked my head open on one of the sash clamps. Hit it so hard the clamp actually fell off! Then I had to rush around to complete the glue up with blood running down my face, trying to avoid getting it on the wood! Got there in the end and went inside for a clean up and a cup of tea. 

I used some home made squaring aids. I use these on most glue ups and find they really help keeping things true. I was going to drawbore the joints, but decided it wasn’t necessary - would have saved a gashed head though :lol: I may pin the smaller stretcher tenons. 






While the bench was upside down, I took the opportunity to fit the adjustable feet. Sinply drilled a 15mm hole in the end grain of each leg and hammered in a 15mm tee nut into each one. I shortened the very long screw thread on each foot and simply screwed them in. 










I also screwed some temporary stretchers to the top of the bench to prevent and racking and aid movement before the aprons and top are fitted. 






Bench now on its feet, and absolutely rock solid. Really chuffed with it so far. 






Next job the aprons...

Total time: 40hrs
Total weight: 68kgs
Total cost £60


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## Phil Pascoe (1 May 2018)

I'd have though the gain from the mass of the frame was lost by the adjustable feet. :?


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## Doingupthehouse (1 May 2018)

phil.p":18i7kop9 said:


> I'd have though the gain from the mass of the frame was lost by the adjustable feet. :?


 I wondered about this as well when I built my other bench, which, out of necessity, was built with adjustable feet. I can honestly say it’s never so much as moved an inch in use. I’ve also got the option of bolting these feet to the floor, but I’m pretty positive it won’t need it. 

Cheers
Simon


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## Phil Pascoe (2 May 2018)

I wasn't thinking so much of it moving about as being dead when walloped.


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## Doingupthehouse (2 May 2018)

Interesting question... on my other bench, I can’t say I’ve noticed, but then again, I don’t tend to pound out mortices by hand. There’s definitely a big difference between the ‘holey’ area and the solid area of the top - where the webs of the torsion box are filled in.

I'd be interested to know the physics of this. Does the mass absorb the shock or does it help transmit it to the floor? Or a combination of the two perhaps? Does the hardness of the material make a difference - would an thinner section oak bench be less ‘dead’ than a beefier softwood one of the same weight?

If it wasn’t so heavy, I’d remove the feet when the bench is complete and try and see if there was any noticeable difference.


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## MattRoberts (2 May 2018)

Looking really nice - that's some tight grained pine. Certainly looks beefy! Thanks for the progress updates


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## Lons (2 May 2018)

Love it Simon, keep them coming.


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## mindthatwhatouch (3 May 2018)

Surely the mass absorbs the shock?
Lay something heavy, say a club hammer on a nail and then try and bang the nail in by striking the opposite face with a hammer.
Be interesting to see how it performs with and without the feet.

Nice bench build, any details on the mft bench.


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## Doingupthehouse (3 May 2018)

mindthatwhatouch":13ewil7c said:


> ...any details on the mft bench.



I didn’t document it fully, but there’s a few pics etc in this thread

post1220843.html#p1220843

Quite simple really, L shaped legs; area by the vice is filled in solid; flap supports have adjusters to level; MFT top £40 (if I recall) on eBay and very good, as are the aluminium dogs. 

Anything specific you want to know just ask...

Cheers
Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (4 May 2018)

Managed to get another few hours work done. Started by sorting the wood for the top and aprons - best bits for the top, second best for front apron, reserving the worst of it for the inner apron lamination.

I'm laminating the aprons to be thicker, adds a bit more mass and I think I can be more certain of holdfasts gripping in a deeper hole. Have a couple of other reasons too, but I'll get to that in a later post.

Began by cutting the timber down slightly over length. Found an interesting use for a practice dovetail piece - my mitre saw fence wasn't quite long enough, so improvised a stop...







Then planed and thicknessed the timber for the apron, didn't bother to joint these by hand afterwards as an immaculate glue line's not really an issue here. Won't be sorry when all the timber's machined as it's so tedious to do. The knotty pine's really hammering the blades as well. I really regret not buying more of the 3x3 timber that I used for the base. The CLS is ok but a lot of work to lose the rounded corners - but hey-ho, hindsight and all that...

Have also decided, at some point soon, the Record Power DX5000 dust extractor's got to go! Too loud, generates too much heat and blocks too often with resinous timbers. You might see it in the for sale section soon...

I used a few dominoes to help keep the laminations aligned, making sure I didn't place any where the corners are to be cut away. Then on to the glue up.






When I make the front apron, I'm going to have to mark out carefully so I don't put dominoes where the dog holes go - or maybe just leave the dominoes out altogether.

Having got a better sense of scale since the base has been built, I've lengthened the bench by 100mm, it's now going to be about seven feet long - better proportions and no real impact on workshop space.

Need to think about how I'm going to mount the vice, before I get too carried away with the aprons.

Time: 43hrs
Weight: 74kg
Cost: £66

SImon


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## transatlantic (4 May 2018)

Well if I had all those tools then maybe I could build one too....






:twisted:


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## nabs (4 May 2018)

transatlantic":2o2fnf5m said:


> Well if I had all those tools then maybe I could build one too....


 :roll: 

it is looking good doingupthehouse . I don't think you'll regret making it a bit longer, my shed is quite small I had to make mine just under 6' to fit and it feels a bit cramped in some circumstances.

I am glad you are tracking time taken - it shows that making a bench is a pretty large undertaking (regardless of what tools you have!)


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## Doingupthehouse (4 May 2018)

nabs":2hb3gvow said:


> it is looking good doingupthehouse . I don't think you'll regret making it a bit longer, my shed is quite small I had to make mine just under 6' to fit and it feels a bit cramped in some circumstances.
> 
> I am glad you are tracking time taken - it shows that making a bench is a pretty large undertaking (regardless of what tools you have!)



Thanks Nabs. It's certainly time consuming and I don't get as much time on it as I'd like. Really enjoying this project though, as I've not attempted any joinery on this scale before. It does rather take the pressure off using cheap materials.

Already thinking of some of the accessories I might build when it's done... So many ideas, so little time!

Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (6 May 2018)

Managed to get a couple more hours in today and started on the rear apron to leg joints. I started by making a template out of some scrap ply. Cut it on the bandsaw and cleaned up with a chisel. 






I marked out the positions of the joints on the apron and cut away most of the waste with a jigsaw..






I aligned the jig with my knife lines and stuck it down with carpet tape. Then used a top bearing template trim bit to follow the template and cut the joint. 











Then just a matter of squaring up the corners with a sharp chisel. 

Right hand joint pretty well perfect, no fettling needed. The left hand side required just a little paring to achieve a good fit. 






Pretty happy with how these joints turned out. Only slight issue, I snapped the template after the second joint. The tape’s very strong! Won’t take long to make another, but it’s a shame as the fit was spot on. My own fault for not leaving enough material on one side. 






Have left the aprons a fraction thick and will plane down flush with the legs. 

I need to think about how to proceed. I want to minimise how often I turn the bench around, as it’s bleedin’ heavy already, and I don’t have enough space in my workshop to turn it without upending it.

Time: 45½ hours

Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (14 May 2018)

That moment when you realise you've cut the wrong corner off of something! :lol:  =D>






Lord knows what I was thinking? It's so obviously the wrong corner #-o - I'd just cut the first apron correctly too. I'm making a new one, but at least I can salvage this to make one of the inner aprons/bearer supports.

Have done a bit more work on the bench, but will do an update later, just thought I'd leave this here :lol: 

Simon


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## MattRoberts (14 May 2018)

I see you're going with the through domino look?


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## Doingupthehouse (14 May 2018)

MattRoberts":q6z9p87l said:


> I see you're going with the through domino look?



As soon as I saw it my heart sank, knew the cut was in the wrong place as the dominoes were strategically place not to get cut into! #-o 

Have now re-made the apron, but didn’t use dominoes this time. It took ages to work out the positioning, what with the dog holes, vice location, corner cuts etc. Wasn’t worth it just for an easier glue-up. Leaves me free to change my mind about hole locations - which I’m sure I will. 

On the plus side, I’m getting faster at cutting the leg to apron joint - getting plenty of practice :lol: 

Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (21 May 2018)

Finally got some time to do a bit more work on the bench.

Managed to re-purpose the apron that I c*cked up as on of the inner aprons. I also machined up the timber for the second inner apron and glued that up. I've now produced my 4th bag of shavings and really must change those planer blades.






I cut the joinery for the centre bearer. Not sure what you'd call this joint - part housing, part halving kind of thing. I cut the stopped housing first using a router and my exact width housing jig - have plans for a MKII version of this jig with adjustable stops. The jig is set from the actual component and is very accurate.






After the housing was cut, I sawed out the waste to accept the halving portion of the joint.






To leave this...






and the finished joint... The domino mortices are to attach some wings to screw the top to.






I've cut the ends of the inner aprons at an angle and cut some wedges from scrap sapele. I don't really think the bench needs wedging as it's incredibly solid, but it's not a lot of extra work - so belt and braces it is. I also pegged the leg to stretcher joints with some oak dowel, again not really necessary.






I'm simply screwing and (probably) glueing the aprons on so I used a plug cutter to make the plugs for the screw holes. The holes are a bit of a mess, as both of my 12mm drill bits are awful - but hey, its a bench!






Here's the bench with the inner aprons dry fitted. I still need to cut the parts for the areas on the outside of the legs.






I've been having a lot of thoughts about fitting the vice. I was originally going to fit it flush, but I'm now starting to favour offset fitting. My other bench has an offset vice and I can't say I've every wished it was flush - on the rare occasion I need to secure something long, I just use a packer. I'm not sure the flush fitting is worth the hassle. I need to make up my mind before I attach the inner aprons permanently.

So I'm almost at the stage where I can start making the top.






Time so far: 55hrs
Weight: 80kg
Cost: £75

Simon


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## MusicMan (21 May 2018)

After using a flush vice for 40 odd years, I changed to offset fitting, trying it out with a temporary spacer first then making it permanent. I now much prefer it. Easier to introduce work for clamping, and possible to clamp a component with sticky-out bits near the end. As always, depends on the work you do. I do a fair amount of restoration, where components (e.g. of chairs) often have sticky-out bits. A pattern-makers vice would be cool but ....


Keith


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## Doingupthehouse (21 May 2018)

MusicMan":322t5r43 said:


> After using a flush vice for 40 odd years, I changed to offset fitting, trying it out with a temporary spacer first then making it permanent. I now much prefer it. Easier to introduce work for clamping, and possible to clamp a component with sticky-out bits near the end. As always, depends on the work you do. I do a fair amount of restoration, where components (e.g. of chairs) often have sticky-out bits. A pattern-makers vice would be cool but ....
> 
> 
> Keith


 Thanks for that Keith. I'm certainly coming round to the idea. I've also realised that I prefer to plane on the bench against a stop where possible, rather than in the vice. It's much less faff to just pick up the pieces, turn them, check for square etc.

Simon


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## custard (21 May 2018)

As Music Man said, it all depends of what you make. 

If you're a furniture maker then you're edge jointing for almost every project, and these are amongst the most critical and demanding joints that you'll cut. An advantage of a flush vice is you can quickly secure workpieces at both ends like this,






and the bench itself is helping keep the workpiece rigid and flex free along it's length.

To Music Man's point, a pattern maker's vice is brilliant for chair making,






But it's absolutely rubbish for dovetailing, so much so that I have to drag out a big lump of a Moxon vice each time I dovetail, which then commandeers half the bench throughout the drawer making process. A Record QR is just a better all-rounder.


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## Doingupthehouse (21 May 2018)

Thanks Custard, food for thought...

Jointing edges is certainly something I’m doing more and more of. My thinking was to have some wide packers backed with 3/4” spigots. These could be slotted into the dog holes in the apron to allow solid clamping on the same plane as the vice. Perhaps not a solid or convenient as clamping directly to the bench though.

What you say about the Moxon taking up valuable space is interesting. I was considering building a small supplementary bench to sit on top of the main bench for more comfortable joint cutting. 

Cheers
Simon


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## Phil Pascoe (21 May 2018)

My thinking on this is that if you have a flush vice you can space anything as far out as you wish, but if your vice isn't flush you can't bring the work any closer to the bench than the rear face of the vice.


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## memzey (21 May 2018)

phil.p":15xq3api said:


> My thinking on this is that if you have a flush vice you can space anything as far out as you wish, but if your vice isn't flush you can't bring the work any closer to the bench than the rear face of the vice.


Yep that was my thought as well when I fitted my vice. Whatever works for the user though as I can see pros and cons either way. Since I finished my bench I haven’t once wished the vice was proud but that's down to how I work. Paul Sellers always has a proud vice and he has probably forgotten more about woodwork than I will ever know!


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## Doingupthehouse (22 May 2018)

memzey":27tpmpkc said:


> phil.p":27tpmpkc said:
> 
> 
> > My thinking on this is that if you have a flush vice you can space anything as far out as you wish, but if your vice isn't flush you can't bring the work any closer to the bench than the rear face of the vice.
> ...



Ok, ok, I'm coming back round to the idea of a flush rear jaw! It's not the easiest thing to achieve though, bearing in mind my aprons are roughly 60mm thick. So I either mont behind the apron, like this...







In which case I lose 60mm of vice capacity - no big deal, the 52 1/2 has a large enough opening. Or alternatively, I cut a recess in the front of the apron and sink the rear jaw into that and lose two of the vice mounting points (as Paul Sellars does). I think I would prefer the rear jaw to have a sacrificial liner rather than use the actual apron, so quite a bit of extra work there whichever way I mount it.

Time for some head scratching...


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## MikeG. (22 May 2018)

You don't need to lose 60mm. You can rout out of the back of your skirt.


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## Doingupthehouse (22 May 2018)

MikeG.":2k7morz0 said:


> You don't need to lose 60mm. You can rout out of the back of your skirt.


If I routed out the back of the apron, would the apron need to remain removable - the back jaw of the vice would be sandwiched between apron and top? Just thinking about any future need to remove it.

This would be a possibility, although I had intended to glue the apron to the top.

Simon


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## memzey (22 May 2018)

I routed out a housing for the fixed jaw of my vice in the front of the bench and then covered the jaw with leather. It has worked extremely well in the past year and a half, with no damage to the stuff it has held, while remaining easy to remove in case maintenance is required. I’ve got some pics of the process - let me see if I can share them again here.


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## Doingupthehouse (22 May 2018)

memzey":387bud4r said:


> I routed out a housing for the fixed jaw of my vice in the front of the bench and then covered the jaw with leather. It has worked extremely well in the past year and a half, with no damage to the stuff it has held, while remaining easy to remove in case maintenance is required. I’ve got some pics of the process - let me see if I can share them again here.



I could do this, but two of the mounting vice points would be within the thickness of the apron, therefore unusable. This would then require the rear jaw to be screwed into the apron (as Paul Sellars does). I don't think two coach screw heads poking through the leather would be good... I could recess it more and add a wooden facing though.


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## nabs (22 May 2018)

if you don't want to expose the rear jaw the best option is to install it on the inside of the apron. As suggested above, routing out some of the apron to avoid losing the full 60mm and you can use all 4 anchor points. 

Assuming you do not have a very early 52 1/2 the housing for the half-nut is removable from underneath so you can entirely dismantle all the moving parts without having to ever remove the rear jaw once it has been installed.


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## custard (22 May 2018)

Quality answer Nabs. =D>


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## Doingupthehouse (22 May 2018)

nabs":3qss43ha said:


> if you don't want to expose the rear jaw the best option is to install it on the inside of the apron. As suggested above, routing out some of the apron to avoid losing the full 60mm and you can use all 4 anchor points.
> 
> Assuming you do not have a very early 52 1/2 the housing for the half-nut is removable from underneath so you can entirely dismantle all the moving parts without having to ever remove the rear jaw once it has been installed.



The half-nut is definitely removable on mine so I’ll look at this option. I'm going to dismantle the vice to clean it up anyway. Will have a play once it’s apart. 

Next decision, coach screws or coach bolts right through the top? I think through-bolting would be safer in soft pine...

Thanks for all the input
Simon


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## nabs (22 May 2018)

per the manufactures of the vice (c.f Planecraft), "unless the bench top is very thin coach screws are quite satisfactory" 

I used them and my bench top is around 2'' thick - there is no way the rear carriage can move because the face is up against the inside of the apron.
Here is what C J Hampton have to say about fitting the vice:


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## Doingupthehouse (22 May 2018)

Thanks Nabs, very helpful. 

I’ve stripped and cleaned the vice, horrible job, absolutely coated with grease and crud. Everything’s in good working order though. Don’t think I’ll bother to repaint it, I quite like the well-used look! 






Not looking forward to re-tensioning the QR spring - had to replace a broken one on my 52 and as I recall it was a pig of a job.

Cheers
Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (29 May 2018)

Had a chance to do a little more. Having decided to go back to my original idea and have a flush fitted vice, I set about preparing the inner apron to fit it. 

I must admit, I found this the most challenging part of the build so far. Would have been much easier on a single thickness apron. 

As the inner aprons weren’t glued to main outer aprons yet, I decided to cut out to the full depth for the rear jaw. I figured there would just about be enough room to get a socket in to tighten the coach screws if I did this. 

I cut this with a jigsaw and refined the shape a little with a rasp and chisels. 






I then marked the positions for the vice bars, screw and quick-release bar and drilled the holes for these. - Note to self, invest in a decent set of Forstner bits!

I decided that the softwood used for the apron was simply too soft to be practical as the rear jaw, so set about installing a hardwood insert. 

First I routed out a 14mm deep recess. 






Made a very simple little jig to do this.






I cut a piece of ash to fit - such a pleasure to cut and plane a little bit of hardwood after all this pine! Rather than screw this straight into the apron, I decided to fit some threaded M6 inserts that I had left over from my MFT build. I can then screw the jaw on using machine screws. This makes it easier to change the jaw if necessary, and opens up the possibility of accessory jaws. I made a little plywood drilling template to aid drilling mounting holes for any future jaws I might make. 
















I glued and screwed the inner aprons in position and set about drilling apron dog holes. My only 19mm drill bits were either a rather tired Forstner or a very aggressive Wood Beaver. So I chucked up the Forstner in the drill press and drilled a hole in a piece of scrap. I then clamped this to the apron and used as a guide for the Wood Beaver to aid drilling reasonably straight. 






A little bit annoyed with myself here, as I drilled columns of four dog holes, three would have been much better - had I drawn scale plans I would have noticed before any wood was drilled. I marked up for the usual diagonal array of holes, but decided not to drill them - I don’t think I’ll need them. If I do I can add them later. I also routed a small chamfer on each hole. 

I then glued in the centre bearer and dominoed some wings to this to take screws for the top. This has made a huge difference to the stiffness of the bench. 






I’m really enjoying working without any definite plans, but it certainly doesn’t save any time. Lots of my time in the workshop I’d describe as thinking time rather than building time. 

So onwards to the top...

Time: 63hrs

Apologies for the long post

Simon


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## thetyreman (29 May 2018)

I'm not seeing the images here on your last post :|


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## Doingupthehouse (29 May 2018)

thetyreman":u6n713ky said:


> I'm not seeing the images here on your last post :|


Anybody else not seeing the images. They’re showing for me - even on mobile.


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## DTR (30 May 2018)

Working fine for me, on the mobile at least


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## Doingupthehouse (5 Jun 2018)

Had a couple of days at home to work on the bench.

Started by planing and glueing up the staves for the split-top. I decided to do this in smallish sections to make machining easier.






I drilled the dog holes on the drill press before assembling. The hole spacing is a bit 'interesting', as the legs are so wide and I didn't wat to position holes above the vice. I think they'll provide enough clamping options though.

I used a few dominoes to aid alignment, but only where I could be sure there was no chance of wanting to drill a dog or holdfast hole. After squaring the two slabs, they were glued up into one big slab. there was a slight twist in this when it came out of the clamps. I did think of running it over the planer, but thought better of it - even with the aid of roller stands...






15 minutes with a hand plane saw it flattened, I then gave it a pass through the thicknesser to make sure it was parallel. The Jet handled this without breaking a sweat - unlike my extractor unit which blocked half way through. Fortunately the slab was fine...

I had to make a cutout to take the rear vice jaw - i did this with the router.






I then reassembled the vice with the rear jaw behind the apron and measured up for the packer between vice and top. The 52 1/2 is running lovely and smooth, but I'l wait until I've oiled the bench before lubricating with PTFE.






I cut the two-inch thick packer on the bandsaw from an offcut of the leg timber. 






I then screwed and glued the packer to the top, then it was time to fit the front half of the split top at last. I used 60mm M10 coach screws for this set in over sized holes. The top is also glued to the apron. This should force any expansion into the void in the middle, as long as I leave a little wiggle room round the removable centre section.






Once the glue had dried, I planed the front apron flush with the top. This was fun! heavy seven-foot long continuous shavings. This thing is solid, not a hint of movement anywhere which was a relief. Ended up planing left handed to go with the grain - this was easier than turning the bench around and, once I got used to it, not too difficult.










So onwards to the back half. I'm hoping another couple of days should see the construction done. I don't need to buy any more materials - unless I c*ck something up, so it will come in at under £100 - just.

Total time: 77hrs
Weight: 104kg
Cost: £95

Thanks for looking.
Simon


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## MattRoberts (5 Jun 2018)

Looking fantastic! I'm already starting to see some new features creeping into my workbench v2 build!


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## custard (5 Jun 2018)

Looks great, an asset to any workshop!

Only thing I'd be concerned about is that front lower stretcher, given it's a flush design will you be constantly barking your shins on it? If so no matter, it's actually adding very little to the strength or rigidity of the bench, so if it gets in the way you could saw it off and you'd never miss it.


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## Doingupthehouse (5 Jun 2018)

custard":8s6ikso2 said:


> Looks great, an asset to any workshop!
> 
> Only thing I'd be concerned about is that front lower stretcher, given it's a flush design will you be constantly barking your shins on it? If so no matter, it's actually adding very little to the strength or rigidity of the bench, so if it gets in the way you could saw it off and you'd never miss it.



Thanks Custard

The main reason for the stretcher was support for a shelf - space being at a bit of a premium, but as you say, it can always come out if it's a problem.

Simon


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## Doingupthehouse (18 Jun 2018)

Phew, finally finished the bench!

After fixing the back half of the top, I set about levelling it. A couple of hours with a hand plane had the top nice and flat.






I then made the centre removable section. I've left it a couple of mm narrow to allow space for the top to move. I needed to cut recesses to fit over the bearers. I couldn't be bothered to set up a router for this, so just chopped the waste out with a saw and chisel and cleaned up with a block and shoulder plane.






This was a good excuse to try my new Simon James holdfasts from Workshop Heaven. Had to wait quite a while for them to come back in stock, but they're absolutely brilliant. The free Star-M auger supplied with the holdfasts is also excellent, and more will certainly be purchased at some point in the future.






I filled some of the knot holes with epoxy filler, as I kept catching myself on the sharp edges. I drilled a few holes in the rear to section to use with the holdfasts and then sanded the bench using 60 grit paper. I left it at this as I want to keep it grippy. Then it was a couple of coats of Danish oil - it was either this or BLO, as they're what I had on the shelf. Don't mind what colour it ends up, it's just a workbench!

I then set about cutting the panels for the under-bench shelf. We bought some kitchen and bathroom units a few years ago with foiled doors. unfortunately, a lot of the doors started to delaminate. Luckily the company honoured its warranty and replaced all 30 doors and drawer fronts. So I stripped off the delaminating covering on some of them and used to make the shelf. Just need to find a use for the other 26!






So that just about wraps it up... The finished bench.






And with the centre section reversed as a planing stop...






I made a 'doe's foot' from some scrap hardwood - what a revelation! Amazed just how solidly it holds the work. I did buy a Veritas Wonder Dog and a pair of bench dogs, but can't see me using the wonder Dog very much. I also bought the Simon James planing stop, which seems to work very well. The metal collar is a bit crude, it's just a brass plumber's olive, but it works well enough and seats nicely in the chamfer of the dog holes.






I slightly lost track of the total build time at the end, but it's approximately 90hrs
Total weight: 125kg
and the total cost was £95 - plus a similar amount for the bench hardware.

I've really enjoyed this build, and certainly learnt a lot. I'd like to thank those who persuaded me to stick with my original plan for a flush vice - it's fantastic for holding long work for jointing etc. It was a pain to fit, but more than worth it.

As for the bench, it's a keeper! From the little time I've spent with at it so far, it's a joy to work with. I'll do an update in six months or so with any observations after using it.

Thanks to all those that followed and offered advice and encouragement. Hope I didn't bore you too much!

Now I can get on with the restoration and refitting of this... Should keep me busy for a couple of years!


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Jun 2018)

The reversible middle strip. What I did with mine was to graduate the height, one end is very low for planing thin parts and the other is higher to prevent larger pieces jumping over it - I can turn it end to end. The middle 200mm is flush so I can use that part of the bench without turning the strip over.


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## Doingupthehouse (18 Jun 2018)

phil.p":rhh48wud said:


> The reversible middle strip. What I did with mine was to graduate the height, one end is very low for planing thin parts and the other is higher to prevent larger pieces jumping over it - I can turn it end to end. The middle 200mm is flush so I can use that part of the bench without turning the strip over.



I did think of doing some sort of stepped arrangement - still could in future, but I'll see how I get on with this first. Having a flush section in the middle sounds like a good idea.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Jun 2018)

Certainly - it's easily and cheaply altered.


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