# Ash Wall Mounted Display Cabinet - WIP



## Orcamesh (20 Mar 2011)

OK, here goes, I will try to update from time to time. The Sketchup plan (basic outline) is below...

Then I have some planks of rough sawn Ash (this is just some of it taking refuge in the spare room!) and a small pile of "first phase" planed Ash produced by my trusty old Scheppach P/T and kept in stick over the winter with some old text books (I knew those books would be useful for something one day!!  ).

The planed Ash is still around 28mm thick and will be planed closer to the final 20mm thickness soon.

The shelves will be glass as this is for displaying models. I may install a light inside (tbd?).

I plan to thru dovetail the corner joints of the carcase, install a frame & panel back (as discussed in Eoin's thread), everything will be solid ash except for shelves and door panels (glass). All in all just trying to keep things as simple as possible.

Tune in later on when some more interesting progress is made...

I am currently resharpening my planer blades, then I'll be able to make the final boards. Family & work life is very busy so workshop hours are sometimes limited, so please bare with me!

Thanks for looking
Steve


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## eoinsgaff (21 Mar 2011)

Steve, 

so we're going to have 'a build off' so. Ha ha, only kiddin'. I'm looking forward to your build.

Eoin


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## Orcamesh (21 Mar 2011)

eoinsgaff":35f8gc9h said:


> Steve,
> 
> so we're going to have 'a build off' so. Ha ha, only kiddin'. I'm looking forward to your build.
> 
> Eoin



Yep! :lol: 

But 

(a) you are way ahead of me :evil: 
(b) you have mastered the art of hand planes :evil: 
(c) looks like you have much more experience than I !!!


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## woodbloke (21 Mar 2011)

For future ref, when timber is 'in stick' it's important that the stickers are directly over the top of one another, 'specially if they're gong to be left for a long time. As you've shown it in the pic, it doesn't lool like they're going to be there for long. Also, don't forget to put sticks under the very lowest plank...the one on the floor! Remember, always do the same thing to each side of the board so if one side is against the carpet... - Rob


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## Orcamesh (21 Mar 2011)

woodbloke":2laksrei said:


> For future ref, when timber is 'in stick' it's important that the stickers are directly over the top of one another, 'specially if they're gong to be left for a long time. As you've shown it in the pic, it doesn't lool like they're going to be there for long. Also, don't forget to put sticks under the very lowest plank...the one on the floor! Remember, always do the same thing to each side of the board so if one side is against the carpet... - Rob



OK thanks Rob. Although the stickers are not all directly over one another where possible I tried to align them as close to one another as possible and if not directly over they were not too far away, although I agree this setup was less than perfect. The bottom board is a rough sawn piece and is not one of the boards for the job and was used to lift the planed boards off the carpet. Anyway, I will make sure future sticks are as you suggest...  

thanks
Steve


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## Orcamesh (30 Mar 2011)

UPDATE :

Well no project update available at the mo as my PT is in middle of a major maintenance job! It seems the in & out feed tables were knocked after moving house and for whatever reason I hadn't noticed that they had moved as all my planed timber was coming out ok. Maybe I just pushed them through a section of the blade which was well set relative to the outfeed table. I will never know now. Anyhow, now I have the annoying job of resetting the tables, then reinstalling my newly sharpened blades.

Hopefully, will get back on task soon...

Steve


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## Orcamesh (8 Apr 2011)

OK, now the P/T is now behaving reasonably well (although maybe needs some minor blade setting to rid a smallish snipe which seems to be determined to stay), I have processed some more Ash plus the original 4 boards which are intended for the top, bottom and sides of the cabinet. these newly planed boards are for the back which will be a frame and panel (x2) construction with central muntin and rebated into the rear face of the cabinet, and for the door parts (rails & stiles) which will be frames for holding the glass fronts. 

The boards are still not quite final thickness, although they are now very close, as I am allowing them to acclimatise a bit further in the house now.

Some photos of some of the stages...

Hopefully I will be able to get on with some jointing soon...

Have a good weekend & thanks for looking!
Steve


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## Orcamesh (11 Apr 2011)

OK, further update with an issue which I might need someone's input on...

I started to plane by hand the machined boards with difficult grain (first). I managed to improve the first board, see below. But my mouth adjustment knob seems to have come apart from its brass ferrule. I believe these 2 parts should be permanently glued together? Anyway at the moment they are apart as you can see in below photos.

Can anyone shine any light on this?

thanks
Steve

PS. I have (as you may have noticed) changed my username to match my domain name. The ancient "Hawk Moth" name has gone mainly because I thought it best to keep things simple from here on in!! :wink:


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## Orcamesh (11 Apr 2011)

Sorry, forgot to mention it is a Lie Nielsen Low Angle Smoothing plane, just in case you hadn't recognised it!


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## Benchwayze (19 Apr 2011)

Well now!
I was going to buy one of those LA Smoothers. Looks like it needs Epoxy or two holes on the metal, c/sunk and suitable steel screws put in place! 
I am sure LN would like to know about this mind.

John


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## Orcamesh (19 Apr 2011)

Benchwayze":2h8o6pui said:


> Well now!
> I was going to buy one of those LA Smoothers. Looks like it needs Epoxy or two holes on the metal, c/sunk and suitable steel screws put in place!
> I am sure LN would like to know about this mind.
> 
> John



Hi John

What are you waiting for??!!! :lol: 

This small problem aside, this is without doubt my best hand plane (so far) and performance wise when setup it is amazing, espsecially when dealing with this type of crazy grain.

I raised the problem in the Hand Tool section so have already got lots of advice, but thanks anyway. It certainly looks like it was glued at one point but I think that the reason why the mouth is locked is unrelated to this. The surface of the actual plane (the casting) which lies underneath the brass lever part has lots of bobbles from the casting process. It is these which seem to be digging into the brass lever part and preventing it from moving which in turn prevents the mouth from moving. I have sorted this now and it is fine.

I might get back to the project soon if I can bat off all the family activities, but looks like Easter is going to get in the way too this weekend! Ho, hum!

cheers
Steve


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## Benchwayze (19 Apr 2011)

Orcamesh":31ltts1j said:


> Benchwayze":31ltts1j said:
> 
> 
> > Well now!
> ...



Waiting for the money, and for SWIMBO radar to fail!

:lol: :lol: :lol: 
Regards 
John


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## Orcamesh (21 Apr 2011)

Hi folks

Not much progress last week or so due to "other jobs" needing doing round the house! This weekend I have to go and help my Dad build his deck, so this will delay me on this project a bit more.

Anyhow, here are a couple of items of hardware which I bought from Isaac Lord a while back, I am still mulling over whether to use the magnetic catches on the doors, but I think the brass hinges seem very nice.

Hope you all have a great Easter Weekend!
Steve


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## woodbloke (21 Apr 2011)

The hinges look decent quality, but I've never liked those magnetic door catches...to me they look 'planted' (which they are) and far too bulky. I always use the Krenovian style sprung loaded catches now that are recessed into the wood...easy enough to make with some hard, dense grained wood (ebony or similar is good) - Rob


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## Orcamesh (21 Apr 2011)

Yes they are Rob, they have "WP" inscribed on them, not sure who makes them. As far as I am aware they are solid brass.

As for the catches, I agree, which is why I said I am still mulling over whether to use them or not. My initial thoughts are not to use them, as you rightly say they do look 'planted' and I think they also just look too bulky and not elegant at all.

As for your Krenovian style sprung loaded catches, I am not familiar with these. I am familiar with James Krenov but have yet to buy his book. Do you have any examples of these and how to make them?

thanks
Steve


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## goldeneyedmonkey (22 Apr 2011)

Orcamesh":1n4mtvs5 said:


> Yes they are Rob, they have "WP" inscribed on them, not sure who makes them. As far as I am aware they are solid brass.
> 
> As for the catches, I agree, which is why I said I am still mulling over whether to use them or not. My initial thoughts are not to use them, as you rightly say they do look 'planted' and I think they also just look too bulky and not elegant at all.
> 
> ...



I'm also interested in these catches you describe. Any more info on these would be much appreciated. 

Cheers _Dan.


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## Orcamesh (27 Apr 2011)

goldeneyedmonkey":11vhxa67 said:


> Orcamesh":11vhxa67 said:
> 
> 
> > Yes they are Rob, they have "WP" inscribed on them, not sure who makes them. As far as I am aware they are solid brass.
> ...



Hi Rob

Your Inghamish box looks lovely, I doubt I am able to produce something of this quality. Beautiful, with or without the brass feet.

As for your mentioning of Krenovian style catches, both Dan and I would love to see what you mean by this. 

Are you able to share anything with us so we can see what you mean?

thanks
Steve


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## Orcamesh (9 May 2011)

Well there has not been as much progress as I would like but this is where I am at now.

I have got the 4 cabinet boards (sides, top & bottom) to final dimension, and the other boards are about to be ripped to provide the rails and stiles for the doors and the back parts (frame & panels).

I have been learning David Charlesworth's hand plane blade sharpening technique and setting it up in the workshop. See photo below. Here you can see the holding device I made which has a tapered locking face. This wedges the Japanese waterstone in place against a piece of ply held in the bench vice. This tapered face is screwed into the bench top into some M8 captive inserts. The "old dust extractor bag" used to keep the water off the bench & vice. It seems to work well.

You can also see in another photo a board which has been hand planed and a mass of shavings from planing the other boards. It seemed to go on for ever! :shock: 

I don't think my hand planing techniques are quite mastered, I think this will take me years to gain on a part-time basis. But I keep learning every time I tackle something.

The final photo shows the four cabinet board just lined up to assess the size of the thing, hopefully there will be more progress in coming weeks...

cheers
Steve


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## woodbloke (9 May 2011)

Orcamesh":37zaiwdc said:


> As for your mentioning of Krenovian style catches, both Dan and I would love to see what you mean by this.
> 
> Are you able to share anything with us so we can see what you mean?
> 
> ...


I'm unabable to load pics at the moment, but I'll see if I can sort something out tonight. Briefly, it's a small oblong of hard timber (I use ebony) around 40x12x6mm which is set in flush with the surface. At one end is a small brass c/s screw that holds the thing in place. At the other (and on the underside) is a spring from a biro which forces the topside of the insert against the door...the screw regulates the amount of pressure exerted by the insert. They're easy enough to make and look much better than a planted magnetic catch.
Pics tonite if I can dig them out of Pbucket and then you'll see what they look like - Rob


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## Orcamesh (9 May 2011)

woodbloke":1wtnw7ju said:


> Orcamesh":1wtnw7ju said:
> 
> 
> > As for your mentioning of Krenovian style catches, both Dan and I would love to see what you mean by this.
> ...



OK, thanks Rob. A picture always says a thousand words (even though your description above is pretty good)!! :wink: 

Now to source some ebony....


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## woodbloke (9 May 2011)

There's an entry on my Blog here about making JK door catches, with a pic - Rob


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## Orcamesh (9 May 2011)

woodbloke":2cg19w1x said:


> There's an entry on my Blog here about making JK door catches, with a pic - Rob



Thanks again Rob. You are a star!

I also found these links :
http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/print.asp?p=650

http://paulsebastianstudio.com/2010/12/krenov-cabinet-progress-5/?show=gallery

I think I get it now but need to scratch my head a little bit more...! :-k 

I've ordered 3 Krenov books, one has arrived, the rest hopefully will turn up soon. So I hope there are some more clues in his books. 

cheers
Steve


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## mickthetree (9 May 2011)

Hey Steve

WP stands for Worcester Parsons.

I work at Isaac Lord so if you ever need any help let me know.

Cheers

Paul


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## Orcamesh (10 May 2011)

mickthetree":yq39r6j4 said:


> Hey Steve
> 
> WP stands for Worcester Parsons.
> 
> ...



OK good to know Paul, thanks.

So can you tell me a bit more about Worcester Parsons and their brass hinges?

cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (16 May 2011)

Bit more progress...

After a fair amount of hand planing the 4 main boards which make up the cabinet sides, top & bottom, I have now setup the Woodrat to do the dovetails. I have decided to do through DTs simply because I like to see them!

The Rat is now setup to cut the pins, but it got too late last night to make a noise with the router so will continue when I get the right moment. The technique to cut the DTs is pretty easy on the Rat (if you follow Mike Humphrey's course notes). I will next make a cut on a test board to make a single pin and test the fit to the pre-cut DTs (as seen below), once happy with the fit I will cut pins on the top & bottom boards...


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## Orcamesh (18 May 2011)

The Rat was setup for the cutting the pins and some test pins made. I maybe could have spent much more time faffing about with the settings to get it absolutely spot on but I was happy enough with what I achieved. There are a few very very small gaps which seem to be due to a slightly different angle cut wrt the tails. This can only be altered by messing about with the pivot point on the Rat (Centre Plate -> Button Settings) so that the angle of the pins are cut differently. Anyway, I have what I have now!

I think I also messed up which way round the boards should have been put in the Rat, i.e. the relative board orientation has ended up being different but I am not a pro so am not going to get too upset on this occasion! It still looks good to me.

For those who don't know, the board with the tails already cut is placed in the marker position (left hand clamp) on the left hand side of the Rat. When I first cut the dovetail cutter through a thin piece of ply, I then moved it from the cutter position (right hand clamp) to the marker position where I marked the profile of the DT cutter onto the front face of the Woodrat. This is then used to line up each further cut. When cutting the dovetails, a marking jig is placed in the marker position (this is just a vertical piece of wood clamped in the marker position with another piece of wood attached to this with a hot melt glue gun or similar, 90 degrees relative to the vertical piece. The top surface of which is aligned with the top surface of the Woodrat when clamped in position.). This is used for making pencil marks on which are relative to the left hand side of the marker position clamp (fixed fence). At this point in time the Rat is not moved east/west, so that the position of the cutter is maintained relative to the marker position. We can now mark pencil lines relative to the cutter position on the marking jig, then when the cutter position is moved east/west, we can align the cutter relative to the original starting cutter position of the dovetail bit. Hope this makes sense!?!! 

Cutting the remaining dovetails along the width of the board is then worked out in your head based on the diameter of the dovetail bit and the spacing you wish to achieve between DTs. The half DTs at each end of the board I worked out to be 11mm from the edge of the board (at the base of the DT cutter), so this is just over half the diameter of the DT bit (15mm diameter) plus a bit more. Then I calculated 15mm for the next piece of wood to remain and then I moved another 7.5mm because of the dovetail bit giving 33.5mm from the side of the marking jig or left hand fixed fence (this was marked on the top surface of the marking jig). Then the first cut could be made. The board is then flipped around in the cutting position 3 more times to cut at both ends of the board and two sides (one cut from each side edge). This saves time and saves losing accuracy. The next cut position is then calculated and the board moved along east/west and the flip and cut process repeated.

Once the two side panel boards are cut the pins can be setup which is where the centre plate comes in and the aluminium north-south guide rails are removed because we want to pull the router through at an angle relative to the front face of the Rat. The centre plate forms the pivot point from which the router is pulled through at an angle. One of the side boards with the DTs cut can be placed in the left hand marker position clamp and aligned with the previously marked dovetail profile (which is marked in pencil on the front face of the Rat). To calculate the button position in the centre plate you use the given formula which is [ (DT Bit diameter + Straight Bit diameter)/2 x Slope = Button Setting ], for me I was using a 6.35 mm straight bit (upward spiral) so this gave (15+6.35)/2 x 6 = 64, where a 1:6 dovetail bit was used.

The spirals (left & right) were then setup using a sliding bevel set to the angle of the 1:6 DT bit. I used a Veritas 1:6 dovetail marking template to setup the sliding bevel. This is then laid on the woodrat base plate against the side edge of the router plate (which is positioned roughly angled) and the other face of the sliding bevel against the front edge of the base plate. Then the position of the router plate is kept still whilst the spiral is tightened up. Then do the same for the other spiral.

Now you are ready for a test cut (of a pin). It may take a few goes to get it spot on but once you have made soem further small tweaks to the button setting and/or the spiral settings you can cut pins until your heart is content!

I hope this helps someone out there, you never know...?

Apologies to those of you who prefer hand cut dovetails, I do do these occasionally but I didn't want to ruin my son's cabinet on this occasion as I am no expert at hand cut DTs (yet)!

cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (25 May 2011)

Just thought I would add some further photos I took of the dovetailing procedure on the Woodrat. I realise there maybe some other previous posts on this but, there was a query about doing this in the General Woodworking board yesterday so here we go...

Hopefully it will help someone out there. If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to chip in?


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## Orcamesh (28 May 2011)

No progress since doing the dovetails, but next steps will be to drill the holes for shelf supports in the carcass sides. The shelves will be glass and I have a couple of questions if anyone can help...

For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).

For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?

I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!

This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn! 

Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...

cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (28 May 2011)

No progress since doing the dovetails, but next steps will be to drill the holes for shelf supports in the carcass sides. The shelves will be glass and I have a couple of questions if anyone can help...

For the glass shelves I have decided to use 6mm toughened glass with polished edges, they will be approximately 760x140mm, is this thickness of glass too much or not enough? I think it is ok because the display cabinet is only for displaying small objects (plastic models).

For the glass doors (with wooden frames), I intend to use 4mm toughened glass, but I see that some others have used 2mm glass for display cabinets, so I am not sure whether 4mm is overkill? Can anyone comment on this?

I've never used glass before so any help will be greatly appreciated!

This morning I have bought some macassar and gabon ebony so will be experimenting on the lathe now to make some door pulls and some shelf support pegs. I hope to use the macassar because it has a bit more character (brown streaks). But let's see how my tool edges hold up and see if I can remember how to turn! 

Once the shelf support holes are drilled in the carcass sides I can then glue it up and clean up the edges. After that I can rout the rebate for the back. I will probably finish the carcass before glue up, & I need to decide on what finish I am going to use this time, ummmm, decisions decisions...

cheers
Steve


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## No skills (28 May 2011)

For the shelves the thickness is plenty, how big are the panes for the doors? (sorry not paid that much attension, just looked at the pics  ) tbh I'd prolly go with the 4mm for piece of mind even if it was not strictly needed.


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## Orcamesh (28 May 2011)

No skills":1bpt675p said:


> For the shelves the thickness is plenty, how big are the panes for the doors? (sorry not paid that much attension, just looked at the pics  ) tbh I'd prolly go with the 4mm for piece of mind even if it was not strictly needed.



Thanks No Skills.

The panes will be about 350x450mm, sitting in a rebate.

Don't know if that changes anything, but you are probably right to be on the safe side.

cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (29 May 2011)

Weekend progress, so far...

I cut up the macassar ebony (intended for the glass shelf support pegs) on the bandsaw into 3 strips, the two smaller strips were 15 mm square by 460mm long.

What I wanted make was some shelf support pegs as in the photo of my sketch. The challenge was how to make 12 of them (4 per shelf/3shelves). Firstly there would have to be a combination of turning and routing. This is where my trusty Woodrat comes in again! I first put the strips thru the P/T, this took them down to about 13mm square. I then marked up the centres at each end, made a hole and mounted a strip on the lathe. Then I proceeded to use a roughing gouge to turn the strip down to the wanted 10mm diameter. Each end was left square so that I could still mount the strip on the Woodrat for milling the flat (see hand sketch).

Machine surface planing the strips square was not so easy as this ebony is as tough as old boots! :shock: So some hand planing was in order to create the face edge and side before final thicknessing in the P/T. See photo. After the initial turning I mounted the strip on the horizontal table on the Woodrat by holding it in between two moveable clamping supports and then hot melt glue applied at each end to stop any north/south movement during routing. then the strip is moved to the central position under the router plate, the straight spiral bit is brought down to the surface of the ebony (turned section) and bit is zeroed. Then I proceeded to rout down about 1.5mm. This created the "flat" in the side of the ebony.

The ebony strip was then remounted in the lathe, but I soon ran into problems trying to cut the remaining 4mm diameter shafts (these are for inserting into holes drilled/routed in the Ash carcass side walls). The ebony was flexing as I thought it might, and even with holding behind the strip during turning one handed it was too tough and I thought it was going to snap so I aborted! :twisted: 

So then I thought well, if I just cut each individual peg out one by one and work on it in my dovetail jaws, then I could finish off the remaining pegs. So this is what I did and it seems to have worked!


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## Orcamesh (29 May 2011)

Just a few more photos just showing the other stages of producing the first 6 pegs...

Still got 6 more to make and then some fine tuning with hand tools, and I hope they will turn out ok!

Thanks for looking
cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (1 Jun 2011)

Not so much of an update, well I finished the other 6 shelf support pegs last night so they are all now ready for final finishing and I can now get on with the carcass, back and doors soon now. It has been very fiddly work making these small shelf supports but I still think they will be nicer than anything shop bought. It remains to be seen if they are also fit for function, but I think they should be ok. If they are too slippery then maybe a small piece of baize could be glued on to the flats to stop the glass shelf from sliding around? We'll see...

As for this thread, I just wondered if what I have been writing/showing here is of any use to anyone? I hope it is of interest to some people, but if not then I would equally be happy to hear feedback about what you would like to see or not see? I have tried to include as much detail as possible to show how i have been working but of course I don't take photos of absolutely everything. I am still a learner (& I guess you can easily tell) so really I am sharing my pain too when and where this comes up! Anyway, feel free to let me know what you think (dangerous, I know)!  

cheers 
Steve


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## Orcamesh (30 Mar 2012)

Finally an update!

Work has started now the season is underway again. The status is that the dovetail joints are now glued up (but the pins not yet planed flush with the side of the carcass) and a rebate routed for the back panel. The shelf peg holes are now drilled and erroneous alignment corrected! Luckily I got away with that faux pas. The back panel frame parts are now cut to size to fit the rebate and are now slotted (4mm) to receive the ash panels (x2). I am just in the middle of finishing the tenons on the ends of the frame parts. Then I need to cut the panels to size and glue adjacent panels together. After this I can fit the back panel and then move onto the doors.

Some pics below...

cheers
Steve

PS. My website has now been significantly updated with this project and my blog on bits & pieces I did in the shop last year. Might be worth a look? All comments/feedback welcome!


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## Orcamesh (12 Apr 2012)

I've now completed the back after a wee while sorting the panels out and fettling the frames. I made a few errors (again) but nothing which will be seen at the end of the day! Phew! Sorry no book matched panels here, I am more concerned about learning how to make the cabinet rather than spend extra energy on things which will make this even more complex than it already seems to be to me. There's a couple of photos below...

Anyway, in one of the other below photos you will see my drill press with a magnifying lamp next to it and an Axminster catalogue left open on the drill press jig. I walked in one day to find that the catalogue had a nasty black burn mark in it (you might just see the burn mark on the right hand page next to the top right hand corner of a pink section showing a set of chisels). Luckily for me only the top 5 or so pages had been scorched by the sun through the magnifying lamp. The sunshine had obviously been magnified via the shop window and the lamp and onto the page of the catalogue. This has been a real wake up call.  It could have been disastrous.

My magnifying lamp is now tucked away, out of range of any sunlight which might come through the window. 

Next, I will be making the doors for this cabinet and then hope to be in a position to order the glass shelves and glass panels for the doors.

More on that in the next few weeks...


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## marcros (12 Apr 2012)

what finish do you use on ash?


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## Orcamesh (12 Apr 2012)

marcros":3iq5fi2d said:


> what finish do you use on ash?



At the moment there is no finish applied, but the plan is to use an oil of some sort (Danish or other similar oil). It's a display cabinet so it shouldn't get bashed too much. If it were a table top then maybe something else should be applied, e.g. lacquer or varnish etc. I will probably oil the panels before glueing the panel frames together as it will be easier to make a neat job of this whilst the panels are not in situ. I don't have any spray facilities so whatever I do it will be hand applied.

If anyone has any suggestions, feel free to donate...?


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## marcros (12 Apr 2012)

i have read somewhere about oil on ash going "pee" yellow. That is why I asked, to see whether there was any truth in it, any solutions or any alternatives.


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## Orcamesh (12 Apr 2012)

ok thanks Marcros, good to know. I will try some on some offcuts first then, always a good plan with finishes anyway. I'll let you know how I get on...


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## Orcamesh (12 Apr 2012)

I was just reading through my old finishing notes which I put up on my website, see http://www.orcamesh.com/Orcamesh/David_Savage.html, and yep you're right Marcros, I had forgotten that blond woods will yellow with oil finishes. So it looks like I need to practice shellac again after all these years, that will be a test! Maybe a simple wax finish will be easier! :lol:


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## woodbloke (13 Apr 2012)

Looks like it's coming on well, but I winced a bit when I saw the pic of the back panel...all nicely matched apart from the bit with what appears to be a big knot, or swirl in it? If it's not too late, I'd definitely hoik that bit out and replace it with something that matches the other bits.
Finishing ash. Oils will make it go pee coloured :-& over time but it might be worth trying a test piece with Osmo-PolyX. I've just finished a little box in ash and so far it's kept it pretty neutral
Edit - if you do a little Googlisationing there is a site where you can obtain a small 'tester' pot of Osmo, just to see if you like the stuff...I do and don't use anything else now - Rob


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## Orcamesh (13 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":muz1rpdd said:


> Looks like it's coming on well, but I winced a bit when I saw the pic of the back panel...all nicely matched apart from the bit with what appears to be a big knot, or swirl in it? If it's not too late, I'd definitely hoik that bit out and replace it with something that matches the other bits.
> Finishing ash. Oils will make it goo pee coloured :-& over time but it might be worth trying a test piece with Osmo-PolyX. I've just finished a little box in ash and so far it's kept it pretty neutral
> Edit - if you do a little Googlisationing there is a site where you can obtain a small 'tester' pot of Osmo, just to see if you like the stuff...I do and don't use anything else now - Rob



Thanks for your comments Rob. I thought the knot/swirl added a bit of interest to the otherwise plain grained Ash, but I take all feedback on board. I'm sure I have some more Ash from which I could make a new right hand panel. The frame is not glued together yet.

I've heard before on here about this Osmo-PolyX, I took a look online a while ago and it seemed quite dear. But if a test pot changes my mind then it might be a good option, cost dependent. Thanks for the tip.

cheers
Steve


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## Chems (13 Apr 2012)

Looks really nice Steve. 

Regarding finish, I did an Ash piece a few years ago and got the same advice re yellowing. In the end I was advised to use Acrylic Lacquer just straight onto the wood. It left the most beautiful finish, I sprayed it on and rubbed it down between coats with a soft 400g paper and still to date its the best finish I've ever had. I think I've got a load of it still in good condition in the workshop if you'd like me to send you some to test with. It adds no colour to the wood only depth and sheen. I'd show you a picture but its not something you can get a feel for in a picture.


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## woodbloke (13 Apr 2012)

Acrylic lacquer or varnish, as Chems has said is also excellent on ash. I use the matt stuff which is quite hard to find but the only place where it's available locally is Homebase. I've looked round Wickes, B&Poo etc but they only seem to do the satin finish which I'm not all that keen on. The other advantage of acrylic is that you can bang on a couple of brush coats in an hour (de-nib 'twixt coats with a bit of worn 320g if dry) and then wash out the brush in water - Rob


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## Orcamesh (13 Apr 2012)

Thanks gents.
I guess you haven't mooched at my website, cos I went on a course with David Savage way back when specifically on finishing techniques & this is on my site. We learned how to do shellac, lacquer, wax, etc. But it was a long time ago, 10 years! I have not made a tremendous amount of stuff in the past 10 years due to bringing up kids, work, moving house (& shop) blah blah blah. But I did make a solid walnut and maple (veneered panel) desk once upon a time, well it's almost complete (I still need to make a couple of drawers -> a round tuit  )! The maple veneered panels of the desk were hand lacquered based on the learnings from David's fantastic course. The results were excellent as you suggest. 

I didn't want to lacquer this cabinet because lacquer's downside is that to the touch, as it is basically a plastic layer, it is not that great. For a panel in a desk I wanted a hard wearing surface and that is what it gives you. Although when I tried to hand apply the lacquer to the desk top this was a tall order due to it's large surface area. This should have been sprayed on, but I had/have no spray den, so I did not lacquer the desk top in the end. 

But maybe as you rightly suggest lacquer is one fairly certain way of giving this a long lasting and quality finish. As oil seems to be a no-no, lacquer is a good option for retaining colour. The lacquer I have used before is the Chestnut Acrylic Lacquer (from Axminster), and this seems very good. I use a proper squirrel hair brush as recommended by David, this provides a better finish and is less likely to shed hairs.


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## marcros (13 Apr 2012)

I had a look at your site, well the finishing link that you sent. Very interesting, will certainly refer back to it.


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## shim20 (14 Apr 2012)

looking vey nice and neat, also nice to see another clifton no7 on here, ive got one get on well with it, the extra weight helps i think,
keep up the good work


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## Orcamesh (17 Apr 2012)

Cheers Marcros, good to know the site may be of use to someone, and cheers Shim20, yep, the Clifton No. 7 is very nice to use. The weight definitely helps but then when you have a plane this big it is going to be heavy! With my weight on top of it, it works really really well! ;~)


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## Orcamesh (21 Jun 2012)

Finally, an update... :roll: 

Well it's still not finished, mainly due to other jobs getting in the way and me making numerous mistakes, but anyway progress has been made. Finally today I received the glass shelves and door panes. Unfortunately the door panes were 2mm too wide and long so didn't fit in the door rebates! The glazier is now trimming them for me.

The photos might not quite be in the right order but you can see some of the work below...

The doors were made with mortice & tenon joints on the Woodrat and hand fettled. The rebate in the back of the carcase for the back was re-rebated as it wasn't quite deep enough for the back. I made a big error on the Rat when cutting the rebates for the glass in the doors and ran too far along the stiles. So I ended up with small cutouts in the corner where the stile meets the rail. :evil: Then I spent hours making tiny pieces of ash to fit and tried to match the grain as closely as I could. I didn't quite manage it but it will have to do. I also decided against re-doing the back panel to remove the knot (sorry Rob, I know you are right, but I just haven't got the time!).

As you can see the hinges were hand chiselled into the doors, with the knuckle being completely recessed in the door so as to move the pivot point out from the carcase (doors are "planted on" to the front edges of the carcase). This meant paring out an angled recess. I finally found that blue masking tape was best with the pale coloured ash, so I could judge when my tenon saw was about to cut into the face of the door. Following the saw cuts I pared out with the chisel. 

I can only put 10 photos in here so I will add a few more on the next reply...


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## Orcamesh (21 Jun 2012)

I also used a self-centering bit to pilot the holes for the hinge screws and the first one I put in (after pre-screwing in a steel screw to create a threaded hole) snapped off as the brass was so soft and I wasn't fully concentrating! So now I have the brass screw stuck in the first hole. I will just have to epoxy the broken screw head into the hole now!

The mortises were done on my trusty mortiser as you can see. The results were pretty good, not much work needed after that phase.

So far so good, but the next tricky stage is getting the doors perfectly lined up on the carcase, fitting the glazing to the doors and then some handles and concealed magnetic door catches. Oh and I need to lacquer everything...

I'll be back!!!


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## No skills (21 Jun 2012)

Progress! How are you going to finish the cabinet? have heard that certain finishes (oils?) on ash can go a nasty yellow - not sure if thats correct.


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## Orcamesh (22 Jun 2012)

Hi No Skills

If you read the last paragraph in my last post it will give you a clue as to what finish I am using! :wink:


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## No skills (22 Jun 2012)

Fair enough


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## Orcamesh (22 Aug 2012)

It has been a while since I posted but that's cos I've been a busy bee in the workshop (and on hols of course)...

But right now I'm trying to finish off this project and have come to the point where I need to fix the glass panels into the two doors. 

I have cut some quarter round beading and mitred the pieces to surround the glass which sits in a rebate in the door frame. 

I intend to drill small ~1.3mm holes (for some brass pins) through the beading and into the frame.

I'm not planning on using any putty, just the small brass pins.

Does anyone see any problems with doing it like this? This is my first glass door I have made and I don't want to mess it up at this late stage of the project!! :roll: I have made enough mistakes so far!

If anyone has any experience of making glass doors for cabinets I'd be glad to hear your advice...

Thanks
Steve


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## AndyT (22 Aug 2012)

Glad to see an update - and comforted that I'm not the only one who likes to let a project take its time!
On the question of the glass and the beading - one thought is that you might prefer the look of making the inside edges black - try it out on some scrap first though. It's definitely better for mirrors, but I think it looks better for clear glass too. 

You might want to set the glass on something to stop any possibility of movement, unless it's a really close fit - maybe a few discreet dabs of clear silicone behind the edges.

And for the brass pins - one option is to drill your holes parallel to the surface of the glass, then when you need to hammer the pins in, rest the hammer head on a piece of card against the glass and just slide it along the surface of the glass to hit the pins. That way there is no risk of over-swinging and hitting the glass. (There is even a design of special glazier's hammer with a prism shaped head, designed to be used like this.)


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## Orcamesh (22 Aug 2012)

AndyT":3fm6xnbt said:


> Glad to see an update - and comforted that I'm not the only one who likes to let a project take its time!
> On the question of the glass and the beading - one thought is that you might prefer the look of making the inside edges black - try it out on some scrap first though. It's definitely better for mirrors, but I think it looks better for clear glass too.
> 
> You might want to set the glass on something to stop any possibility of movement, unless it's a really close fit - maybe a few discreet dabs of clear silicone behind the edges.
> ...



OK thanks Andy. 
I don't like to let a project take its time it's just everything else getting in the way! 
I'm not sure the black edges will work with this design so I might give that a miss on this occasion, but thanks for idea.
I like the idea of the clear silicone so will try that for sure.
The brass pins I've mustered are from those picture hanging hooks! They have slightly protruding pin head which concerns me from the viewpoint that it will be difficult to bury in the beading and so these may not be best for this application. Question is, where do you get such brass pins with thin heads such that they disappear into the beading? So I might have to source some others...
Good idea about the glaziers hammer, now got one on order, and it looks like it will be much easier and safer to use.
Anyway thanks for your help, this is invaluable to a part time hobbyist!
cheers
Steve


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## Orcamesh (25 Aug 2012)

OK that's it, I've had enough!!!  

It's finished (pretty much!). I still have to decide on door pulls, I might make some out of ebony on the lathe but it will depend on what the customer (my son) wants! I have some bought in metal pulls but I think they look naff. Anyway, should only be a small job compared to making the rest of this beast. Blimey it's heavy with all that glass in. I just hope that it stays on the wall when it finally gets mounted.

For those interested, the finish I used was a first coat of Chestnut acrylic sanding sealer, then two coats of acrylic lacquer, finally a layer of bison wax. I would say it has a matt gloss finish, but it depends on lighting conditions of course. Anyhow I'm happy with it and so is my lad.

The door catches are rare earth magnets, one glued into each of the ebony veneered holes you can see on the carcase (x4) and two in each door. Luckily I remembered to put the magnets in the right way round so that they attract! :roll: About 1mm of ebony is veneered over the top and because they are quite strong magnets when the door is closed there is enough force to shut it tight. This was unknown territory but I jigged up some trial magnets and veneer before committing them to the actual cabinet. 

The purpose of this project for me was to learn as much as possible, there were many mistakes made. I'm not going to list them but let's just say that I hope I don't repeat them. One of the biggest cock ups was to go too far with the Woodrat when I was routing the rebates for the glass doors. I ended up trying to grain match some very small new pieces of ash into the framework (where I had removed too much wood). Maybe I should have started again but I decided to continue and as the mistake is on the inside of the cabinet for the most parts people will not see it! Overall I'm quite pleased considering I have never made anything like this before and I am a self taught part time hobbyist!

Anyway, here's a few shots of it in our flaky kitchen (another project which needs doing next...)...


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## AndyT (25 Aug 2012)

Nice one! 

Now let's see it with all the tools in. :lol:


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## Orcamesh (26 Aug 2012)

AndyT":3lofc3cs said:


> Nice one!
> 
> Now let's see it with all the tools in. :lol:



Thanks Andy!

But, ermmm, it's not for tools! :roll: It's for displaying toy soldiers!

Anyway, the glaziers hammer was ok, I am in two minds as to whether this helped over a normal hammer. The rotating triangular end can rotate in swing and accidentally catch your beading making small dents. So especially when you get the nail head near the end you need to turn it around and use the other normal end. The handle on this chinese made hammer was also as rough as a badgers wotsit, so I'll have to improve this one day...

Thanks for your tip about the silicone too, I applied this in the corners of the rebates in the doors and laid the glass down, then squeezed a bit more into the gaps in the corners before placing the beading in. It's now rock solid! 

Anyhow, thanks to you and all the others who have contributed to the project/replied to my questions along the way, much appreciated!
Steve


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## Orcamesh (31 Aug 2012)

Ooops, forgot to upload a pic of the glaziers hammer for anyone who hasn't seen one of these before. It was new to me that's for sure. 

If anyone else has got any comments/feedback on this project, I'd be pleased to hear them...

cheers
Steve


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## woodbloke (1 Sep 2012)

Orcamesh":3ma3mqxr said:


> If anyone else has got any comments/feedback on this project, I'd be pleased to hear them...
> 
> cheers
> Steve


Nice, straight forward job Steve. My main comments would be with regard to the grain orientation of the doors. If you look at the final pic:






...here, you can see exactly what I'm blathering on about. The bottom rhs door rail ought to have been placed in the top lhs door, but the other way up, so that the effect of and 'arch' is formed and vice versa...the top lhs rail should be on the bottom of the rhs door and the other way round. Similarly, if you look at the two upright stiles on the outside of the doors, the grain curves inwards so the cabinet looks (but obviously it's not) a bit '_knock kneed_' From my own perspective, choosing the way the grain flows (and door handles) is critical to how the finished job will look and it's something that I spend a long time agonising over before I even start to cut a piece of wood - Rob


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## Modernist (1 Sep 2012)

I agree with WB about the grain in the door sections but I was more struck by the back panels which I think would look better with the grain running the other way up. I normally position them to look like a flame. Nice job overall and interesting finish details


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## Orcamesh (2 Sep 2012)

woodbloke":11l9cie3 said:


> Orcamesh":11l9cie3 said:
> 
> 
> > If anyone else has got any comments/feedback on this project, I'd be pleased to hear them...
> ...





Modernist":11l9cie3 said:


> I agree with WB about the grain in the door sections but I was more struck by the back panels which I think would look better with the grain running the other way up. I normally position them to look like a flame. Nice job overall and interesting finish details



Thanks for your comments chaps.

I fully appreciate that it is a straight forward job for many, but with my lack of experience this was a challenge for me. The grain orientation I did actually think about for quite some time and made a decision, alas probably not the right decision! The four stiles from left to right come from the same board, if you glued them all back together again as they are, then you would see that the grain matches up (minus the saw kerf cuts). The same applies to the rails, but in this case the bottom left rail would adjoin the top right rail in the original board. However, each pair of rails (left & right) are book matched too (at least they were split along the saw kerf line). You should be able to see that the grain matches?

I agree about the back panels too, I had real trouble with this part of the project in general. I have learned quite a bit doing this and won't make the same mistakes again. 

Anyhow obviously I have made some wrong decisions and something to learn from amongst the others. 

Thanks for your invaluable inputs.

Steve


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## woodbloke (2 Sep 2012)

Orcamesh":3l4qhy7g said:


> I fully appreciate that it is a straight forward job for many, but with my lack of experience this was a challenge for me. The grain orientation I did actually think about for quite some time and made a decision, alas probably not the right decision! The four stiles from left to right come from the same board, if you glued them all back together again as they are, then you would see that the grain matches up (minus the saw kerf cuts). The same applies to the rails, but in this case the bottom left rail would adjoin the top right rail in the original board. However, each pair of rails (left & right) are book matched too (at least they were split along the saw kerf line). You should be able to see that the grain matches?
> 
> I agree about the back panels too, I had real trouble with this part of the project in general. I have learned quite a bit doing this and won't make the same mistakes again.
> 
> ...


I think that board for the front rails and stiles was 'crown' cut, hence the typical ash figuring. Quarter sawn ash, with more of a straight grain would have been preferable to get a better orientation for the door material. None-the-less, a nice piece and as long as you remember the experiences from this job there's a better than even chance that you won't repeat them. 
That's the theory...sometimes though (as in some of the stuff I do) practice is different  - Rob


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## Orcamesh (3 Sep 2012)

woodbloke":fk8mbuar said:


> I think that board for the front rails and stiles was 'crown' cut, hence the typical ash figuring. Quarter sawn ash, with more of a straight grain would have been preferable to get a better orientation for the door material. None-the-less, a nice piece and as long as you remember the experiences from this job there's a better than even chance that you won't repeat them.
> That's the theory...sometimes though (as in some of the stuff I do) practice is different  - Rob



You're absolutely right Rob, all my boards were crown cut. For whatever reason, even if I ask for quarter sawn my supplier doesn't seem to have any or be able to get any. Is this normal? It seems to me to be true, over the years I have bought a fair amount of timber.

Here are some final photos of the cabinet on the wall and details of the ebony door pulls I turned on the lathe on Friday night...

thanks again
Steve


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## woodbloke (3 Sep 2012)

Excellent job done on the door pulls Steve =D> Another one of my fetish's I'm afeard as I think that although it's one of the smallest parts of a job, it's also one of the most important as it's the place the viewer's eye is immediately drawn to and it's usually the first place on a cabinet that the user will touch...so they have to be 'right' - Rob


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## Orcamesh (4 Sep 2012)

woodbloke":31evwm8q said:


> Excellent job done on the door pulls Steve =D> Another one of my fetish's I'm afeard as I think that although it's one of the smallest parts of a job, it's also one of the most important as it's the place the viewer's eye is immediately drawn to and it's usually the first place on a cabinet that the user will touch...so they have to be 'right' - Rob



Thanks Rob.  

There was no plan I just did what I could on the lathe. But turning ebony is good fun as it is so dense and stable, so small components like this can easily be made.


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## woodbloke (4 Sep 2012)

Orcamesh":2dv7lmgp said:


> There was no plan I just did what I could on the lathe. But turning ebony is good fun as it is so dense and stable, so small components like this can easily be made.


Ebony is one of my favourites for handles and knobs as it goes well with most timbers. If you can source it, African Blackwood is even better...on the Little Cabinet recently posted there's a spacer at the top of the door roughly equal to the 'shadow' gap which was turned and sanded in AB to a thickness of 0.7mm (not seen in the pics) and the Krenovian sprung loaded door catch that can just about be seen in the bottom rhs is also in AB - Rob


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