# Gratuitous Plane Porn......warning, explicit images.....



## markturner (18 Apr 2011)

Hope this makes you all happy on a Monday....









Cheers, Mark


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## Dangermouse (18 Apr 2011)

DISGUSTING FILTH! SHOULD BE BANNED AT ONCE. This is the sort of thing that is undermining British values, the Christian way of life and Hetrosexual marrage :shock: :twisted: (hammer)


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## Muina (18 Apr 2011)

Ok... I need a sit down...


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## studders (19 Apr 2011)

Thats not gratuitous Plane Porn..... No sign of a Woodie anywhere.


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## Vann (19 Apr 2011)

Hmm...

So as well as your USA Stanley 5½ (with 2¼" irons), you have:
a Veritas DX60;
a Veritas large shoulder plane;
a Veritas bullnose plane;
a Lie-Nielsen skew block plane; and
a Lie-Nielsen No.4½.

Someone's been spending some money :!: 

Very nice, but where's the Clifton? (hammer)  

Cheers, Vann.


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## dickm (19 Apr 2011)

.... and not a single Spiers, Norris or Preston  !


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## Racers (19 Apr 2011)

Hi,

New and shiny is all o/k but numbers count.






:wink: :shock: :wink: 

Pete


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## Richard T (19 Apr 2011)

Blimey Pete, that looks more like a tool shop.

Is that a little Bill Carter toward the back right or is that just wishful thinking?


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## Alf (19 Apr 2011)

Very nice, Pete. Unfortunately I can't get all my planes into one picture...


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## Racers (19 Apr 2011)

Hi, Richard

I wish I had a Bill Carter.

There are a few Racers's who ever he is  

I have sold some since that photo, and made and bought some more so probbaly the same number, 120 ish.

Alf, :shock: 

Pete


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## Harbo (19 Apr 2011)

Here's my Bill Carter:








But it's only about 25mm long!  


Rod


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## Racers (19 Apr 2011)

'tis not the size :wink: 

Pete


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## toolsntat (19 Apr 2011)

dickm":ixmd820r said:


> .... and not a single Spiers, Norris or Preston  !




In for a penny etc.,
Andy


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## woodbloke (19 Apr 2011)

Harbo":2svld2k1 said:


> Here's my Bill Carter:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...and not a single Holtey...c'mon then Rod, piccy please :lol: - Rob


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## Karl (19 Apr 2011)

Here was a shot of my collection a few years ago






Alas I have sold quite a few of them over the last couple of years, thus proving that there is a way of climbing one's way back up "The Slope". Sadly, this cash has founds itself swallowed up in a new slope - Cast Iron.  

Cheers

Karl


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## Racers (19 Apr 2011)

Hi, Chaps

Just had a thought, if Karl Holtey posts a pic in this thread we are all done for  


Pete


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## jimi43 (19 Apr 2011)

So Mark....explain your original post and the sudden rushed upgrade...did you get a great bulk deal or is the bootfair logic paying off at last!!!!! 8)


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## markturner (20 Apr 2011)

Actually, it's not the full family, here they all are, we have:
Type 15 No 7 bailey, Type 9 No 6 bailey, Type 11 No 5.5 bailey, Veritas low angle smoothing plane, late model Norris A5, Lie Nielsen 4, Stanley 78 rabbet plane, Veritas DX90 block plane, Lie Nielsen 140 skew block, Clifton dado plane, Veritas flush plane, vintage Stanley 66, Veritas large shoulder plane and Veritas Bullnose plane. 






its a bit like a bad crack habit..........     8) :lol: Still, the wife prefers it to motorbike racing which was my last passion...

Nice collection Pete!! Is there such a thing as plane envy??

Jimi43 - Have always had 3 or 4, ( the veritas low angle, block plane and bullnose, just for my general carpentry work,) but just got into collecting in the last 3 months, I am buying old ones on Ebay and restoring them now for fun, have a 4.5 on the way and a 6 on the go at the moment. I am really loving doing it and am also learning some useful stuff as I go. I see you are a boot fair man, I have never been to one, can recommend any near me? ( central London) 

Toolsnat: I can see there is a long way to go down this road yet......  very nice collection!

Now I just need to get my skills up the level where I can fully use all the ones I have. I am teaching myself cabinetry, having been a finish carpenter and kitchen fitter all my life. 


Cheers, Mark


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## Alf (20 Apr 2011)

Oh, you have so had it. Motorbike racing has nothing on the speed you can pick up on The Slope.



markturner":1qlw2vm5 said:


> Is there such a thing as plane envy??


Oh yes.


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## paulm (21 Apr 2011)

I managed to resist for a while but then had to give in :mrgreen: 
















And yes, they have all been used Paul (Chapman), but cleaned off scrupulously afterwards of course :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## jimi43 (21 Apr 2011)

They're GORGEOUS Paul!

I think in this instance, with Cliftons, they are so iconically British that the addition of the anniversary stamp with all the associated additional cost etc...is justified.

I would do exactly what you are doing. Use them and then polish them and keep them indoors!

Mark...is it just me or does that squared off HOCK look totally wrong on the Stanley? I'm thinking of making a 4mm one myself for my No5 1/2 and see what it does to improve the beast. Just as an exercise don'tcha know! 

Jim


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## Waka (21 Apr 2011)

Am I allowed to post mine?


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## Harbo (21 Apr 2011)

Yes Tony you have a really drooling set!


Rod


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## Waka (22 Apr 2011)

Nice little family of S & S's

I'll post the Norris's tomorrow.


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## jimi43 (22 Apr 2011)

A classic example of an experienced skier, who, with enough funds, takes the black run to Utopia!

Beautiful WAKA.....simply beautiful.

Jim


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## woodbloke (22 Apr 2011)

paulm":1atrk5dj said:


> I managed to resist for a while but then had to give in :mrgreen:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice try Paul, but no cigar...it's not a complete set (hammer) :lol: - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (22 Apr 2011)

woodbloke":15hpl4hm said:


> Nice try Paul, but no cigar...it's not a complete set (hammer) :lol: - Rob



And it can't be because I have one of the #21s






And that one has my name on it 8) 






Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (22 Apr 2011)

Paul Chapman":558rcmxa said:


> And that one has my name on it 8)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'll take the personal name plane name thingie and up you one Paul :lol: This one doesn't have 'Woodbloke' on the side, but if you scrutinize the front of it:






you'll see in small, felt tip writing the initials 'JK' and yes, it's an original :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 8) 8) with the shavings that came with it, produced by no less than Krenov himself - Rob


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## paulm (22 Apr 2011)

Paul Chapman":3hxjr5x0 said:


> And it can't be because I have one of the #21s
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Vandal :shock: :lol:


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## markturner (22 Apr 2011)

Oh lordy...... what have I started!! Guys, I now have some serious plane envy... I really like the Cliftons, might have to get myself one just for the hell of it, they have a beautiful look and feel to them. keep them coming guys, lets see what collections everyone has!

Cheers, mark


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## jimi43 (22 Apr 2011)

I see Cliftons as the "Morgans" (old factory) of the plane fraternity whereas S&S such as those owned by WAKA are the top of the range Rolls Royces (before they too sold their soul to the Devil)....







I mean....that has to be the Mona Lisa of the tool world....

I think if I had the money to afford just a small one...I would be scared to use it...really scared...and that is pointless to me. They are meant to be used and then cherished for many generations...passed down from father to son. And even that cannot be assumed these days.

Oh well...we can dream!

Jim


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## Waka (22 Apr 2011)

jimi43":5jnmx9tq said:


> I see Cliftons as the "Morgans" (old factory) of the plane fraternity whereas S&S such as those owned by WAKA are the top of the range Rolls Royces (before they too sold their soul to the Devil)....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Jim

You're right about using them, when I first got them I put them away and didn't use them for months. To make myself use them I sold most of my other planes, this ment that they had to taste wood.

They are still a pleasure to use and will be handed down in my family.


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## woodbloke (22 Apr 2011)

One of us though :-" :-" got to use them for the *first* time - Rob


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## markturner (23 Apr 2011)

Out of interest, how much are the Sauer planes? There are no prices on the classic tools website.....which usually means one thing - if you have to ask, you cant afford it !!!!


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## woodbloke (23 Apr 2011)

markturner":1h9quu5k said:


> Out of interest, how much are the Sauer planes? There are no prices on the classic tools website.....which usually means one thing - if you have to ask, you cant afford it !!!!


Probably best to PM Waka. I know roughly how much the tiny rebate plane was (similar to the one that Aled makes). Interestingly, if you take F&C there's a piece in it this month by Karl Holtey explaining the disadvantages of infils and why he's moved away from them - Rob


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## Benchwayze (23 Apr 2011)

My latest 'slope' is a yen (NPI) for some Japanese chisels. 

Then I shall need a good shooting board; 
then I shall have to try the dividers method of setting out;
then I shall have to replace my lost copy of the Alan Peters book, just to feel good; 
then I shall have to get a new dovetailing mallet;
then I shall have to buy some exotic timbers to give some point to cutting nice dovetails,
then I shall decide I need Japanese chisels for morticing too. and then.....

Well you know how it goes folks! :mrgreen: 

(hammer) 

John


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## woodbloke (23 Apr 2011)

Benchwayze":22kjs116 said:


> My latest 'slope' is a yen (NPI) for some Japanese chisels.
> 
> John


If I recollect John, you bought some Narex's personally from Matthew at last year's Bash...fancy a change, or have they not worked out? - Rob


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## Benchwayze (23 Apr 2011)

It's just me Rob... I am addicted to chisels! 

Seriously,the Narex are fine tools. 
I am trying to resist the urge to find out about the hollow back single-bevel variety. Also, if I don't spend it Rob, the taxman will take most of it from my offspring! :evil: 

John


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## woodbloke (23 Apr 2011)

Benchwayze":f6wjurst said:


> It's just me Rob... I am addicted to chisels!
> 
> Seriously,the Narex are fine tools.
> I am trying to resist the urge to find out about the hollow back single-bevel variety. Also, if I don't spend it Rob, the taxman will take most of it from my offspring! :evil:
> ...


John, I'd give Matt a PM and ask if he'd let you have one (say around 15mm) on appro...but beware, the 'Slope' is steepish! (hammer) :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :lol: - Rob


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## Benchwayze (23 Apr 2011)

I never thought of that Rob and it's a good idea. But I'll let Matt enjoy his Easter break first. 

Regards
John 

Dunno why the forum is showing me as offline. I never ticked no box!!! :mrgreen:


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## Waka (24 Apr 2011)

markturner":18t6cnc0 said:


> Out of interest, how much are the Sauer planes? There are no prices on the classic tools website.....which usually means one thing - if you have to ask, you cant afford it !!!!




You need to go on the S & S website.


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## Harbo (27 Apr 2011)

Here's my small collection:-









Rod







I wish? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## jimi43 (27 Apr 2011)

Hi Rod

I see Veritas as workhorses....I would have no problems using those every day of the week.

But the S&S and Holteys...to name just two are more art forms than working planes.

I think I would use them but I am not sure I would enjoy using them...for fear of damaging them. And it's nothing to do with resale value...

For the same reason...I would hate to have enough money to own a DB9. I wouldn't feel safe parking it anywhere other than my garage with a giant padlock on the door! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Paul Chapman (27 Apr 2011)

jimi43":1ggo5ubg said:


> But the S&S and Holteys...to name just two are more art forms than working planes.
> 
> I think I would use them but I am not sure I would enjoy using them...for fear of damaging them.



Why do you think using them would damage them, Jim :? I've never damaged a plane by using it and I've been using some of mine for 40 years. I've never understood the reluctance some woodworkers have to use good tools for the purpose they were designed.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (27 Apr 2011)

Paul Chapman":3uqnqnxh said:


> jimi43":3uqnqnxh said:
> 
> 
> > But the S&S and Holteys...to name just two are more art forms than working planes.
> ...


I agree with Paul, planes are just tools in the same way that a DB9 is just a motor. If had a DB9 part of the ownership would be the sheer hell of being a hooligan in it and the 'wow' factor from other moterists. Aston Martin's and planes like Holtey's and S&S's are there to be used (but I hasten to add...not abused) - Rob


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## Harbo (27 Apr 2011)

I have a small Holtey smoother which I use and I have damaged it slightly sadly - slipped off the bench and missed the rubber mats.
Murphy's law - but I did not buy it to keep in a display cabinet - accidents happen?

Rod


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## jimi43 (27 Apr 2011)

Perhaps I ought to explain. I don't like imperfections on anything and if I paid huge sums for something I would be frightend of scratching/denting/dropping it.

Although I admire the engineering and design perfection of S&S and Holtey....I could not justify buying them to plane wood. I could just about justify Veritas or LN to be honest.

Since I don't buy things for investment only....I don't think I would be buying any of the above anytime soon....I think I will just stick to restoring old ones...this is where my pleasure lies.

And I love using the old restored infills....the pleasure is twofold...first a quality tool and secondly one rescued from a premature death. But I am not a professional woodworker...if I were and the quality of my cabinetmaking were to be improved by using an S&S then I would buy and use one...that would be justification alone.

Jim


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## woodbloke (28 Apr 2011)

jimi43":316q1rq2 said:


> But I am not a professional woodworker...if I were and the quality of my cabinetmaking were to be improved by using an S&S then I would buy and use one...that would be justification alone.
> 
> Jim


Jim, in my experience, professional cabinet makers take a *very* pragmatic approach to tools. They are what they are...just tools and they use them to earn a living. If a pro could get the same results with an old fettled Stanley No4, a card scraper and some 240g paper then that's what will be used and the money that might _might_ have been spent on esoteric hardware will be spent instead on new tooling for the spindle or a couple of decent, fine tooth c/saw blades (say)

Don't be fooled into thinking that a S&S or Holtey will work any better than a well set up Veritas or LN (or even a Cliffi, for the benefit of Paul C :lol: )...they won't, as I've proved to myself and others on numerous occaisions. Infills are lovely things to have and own as part of a collection and are to be cherished, but they're made mainly for the serious collector who has the available wedge to part with to own such toys - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (28 Apr 2011)

woodbloke":2f33j1en said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking that a S&S or Holtey will work any better than a well set up Veritas or LN (or even a Cliffi, for the benefit of Paul C :lol: )...they won't



That's been my experience as well. I've tried out various in-fill planes and while I can appreciate the skill that has gone into making them, from a user perspective they work no better than the top-end planes from LN, Veritas and Clifton. And in-fills tend to be less versatile because of their fixed mouths.

But as with all things, you pay your money and make your choice.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Harbo (28 Apr 2011)

Yes I have to agree.

I got my Holtey 11-SA at a very bargain price - I was after a kit!

http://www.holteyplanes.com/infill-planes-11SA.html

It does get used for tricky bits of wood but not that often, like my Japanese, Norris, Spiers and Mujithingy? smoothers - it's nice to try out and use other types of planes.
Most of the time I use my BU Veritas ones.

Rod


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## jimi43 (28 Apr 2011)

Thanks for the input guys...I am sure this one will run and run with various views.

In all the things that I have approached, photography, art materials, guitars....and many more...the general rule is to buy the very best you can afford and the results will be reflected in this purchase.

Since I could afford it, I have always bought and always will buy Nikons, I would have LOVED a Hasselblad and go into medium format but my dosh, even then, could not stretch to that Rolls Royce of optics.

In art materials...I always bought the "artist" quality...anything less was a disappointment. And so on...

But with planes....I see a strange sub-culture...

I think this stems from the followers of various designs following change from woodies.

We now have Bedrock enthusiasts, innovative Veritas designs, old and modern infill designs and even woodie resurrection...with wonderful work being done by modern examples (Philly) of the old workhorses.

For the average professional cabinet maker...the Veritas, LN and Clifton...should provide all that is necessary but if you are a great infill fan...then I can see S&S and Holtey being wonderful modern useable examples of the Norris/Slater/Spiers stables. Lest we forget...a Norris of the day would have cost a year's wage for the carpenter...so an S&S is relatively cheap by comparison!

So...my final comment on the subject...IF I had all the money necessary not to value pick...I would have a collection of S&S and Holteys...some Veritas, Clifton and LN planes as workhorses and I would still have a few old Records...simply because the very best examples of the old ones of these are wonderful, innovative, historical gems!

Jim


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## woodbloke (28 Apr 2011)

jimi43":3kuzoicx said:


> For the average professional cabinet maker...the Veritas, LN and Clifton...should provide all that is necessary but if you are a great infill fan...then I can see S&S and Holtey being wonderful modern useable examples of the Norris/Slater/Spiers stables. Lest we forget...a Norris of the day would have cost a year's wage for the carpenter...so an S&S is relatively cheap by comparison!
> 
> Jim


I used my Norris A1 panel plane in a couple of 'shops and it was regarded by all who saw it as an item of curiosity, a thing from a bygone era...true it was admired, but having seen it, they then went happily back to their Records and Stanleys. In most pro 'shops these days, you'd be very hard pushed to find an expensive infill. They probably do exist in some shops where the boss may be a bit of a 'toolie, but my guess is, sadly...not many - Rob


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## markturner (28 Apr 2011)

I feel the same Jimi - many people, even professional furniture makers I know dont see the point of spending more than you have to on tools. Myself, I have always brought the most expensive, as by and large, in life, you get what you pay for. I love the feel and look and pleasure of owning something that has been really nicely designed, made and finished. If it does the job better, then thats a bonus, but if not, i would still prefer to have the nicer version. 

The older type planes are like the old aircraft such as spitfires etc - just lovely and evocative and iconic, sure the modern versions are better in trems of materials, efficiency etc, but nothing beats that feeling as you see one fly low overhead...

Cheer, Mark


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## Kalimna (30 Apr 2011)

Perhaps it is easier to justify the (profound) expense of a Holtey or Sauer&Steiner when, as a user, you are *only* a hobbyist. What I mean by that is that, if you are free from the constraints of profit, and also are lucky enough to have the disposable income to afford such a thing, then the sheer pleasure of using the finest crafted tool available is justification enough.
It doesn't necessarily matter that the tool works no better than a well-fettled Record/Clifton/LN/LV/etc, but the satisfaction to be gained from the use of such a tool is, perhaps, beyond the end result.
On a similar note, I truly enjoy drinking fine wine. I realise that the taste/smell is little different whatever the vessel I am drinking it from. However, I get much more enjoyment drinking from one of my Stuart crystal glasses than I would do from a plastic tumbler.
To be able to own a tool that is the pinnacle of the tool-makers art, and not just let it sit in a cabinet to be admired, but to use it in the process of producing a piece of furniture or musical instrument, is a good thing. And for those lucky enough to own such a tool - well done and I hope it brings you pleasure.

Adam


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## Anonymous (28 May 2011)

http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad13 ... ane013.jpg

well used everyday


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## jimi43 (28 May 2011)

There's just *WAY* to much space left on that bench Mike....imagine how many planes you could fit on there if you pushed them all up a bit! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Anonymous (28 May 2011)

already added a no 6 veritas and the veritas aprin plane :roll:


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## woodbloke (28 May 2011)

jimi43":asp36qro said:


> There's just *WAY* to much space left on that bench Mike....imagine how many planes you could fit on there if you pushed them all up a bit! :mrgreen:
> 
> Jim


You mean a bit like this: 






Jim? Somewhere in amongst that little lot is my Norris A1 (of which you have first dibs), a 25the anniversary LN No4.5 and a genuine Krenov smoother, not forgetting a Philybrush :lol: - Rob


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## yetloh (29 May 2011)

Perhaps I can contribute another perspective on the subject of ownership of the most expensive planes. 

I am sure what has been said about professional makers is generally truei, but there ceretainly are professionals who own and use these planes -David Charlesworth and Garrett Hack, to name just two.

As to the use of these planes, I am sure that while their makers are happy to sell to pure collectors (they need to make a living), they would, without exception, prefer that they be used rather than being locked away in display cases. I cannot speak for others, but as someone who is fortunate enough to be able to own some top quality planes, I use them routinely just as owners of Purdy shotguns use their guns and owners of Rolls Royces drive their cars. This means they acquire the patina of use but, to me, they are none the worse for that. If it also means that the ultimate value of my planes is less than it would otherwise be, it matters not a jot to me because I have no intention of selling them and, much more importantly, I bought them for ALL the pleasures of ownership. Yes, they are a joy to behold but they are even more of a joy to use. It is certainly true that Cliftons, LVs and LNs can be made to work just as well, but the aesthetics and craftsmanship embodied in the making of these top quality tools adds another dimension.

I know that many amateurs and professionals take a purely utilitarian view of hand tools (aand I would not for a moment criticise them for that) just as I do with power tools; I bought a big Festool router because it is handy to have two and it is functionally superior to my big Dewalt, but I gain no more pleasure from using the Festool - indeed, I gain no pleause from using any router, they are just a means to getting a job done. But, for me, hand tools have a special magic, particularly if they are the very best.

Jim


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