# Making a window with basic tools (lots of pics)



## JFC (25 Jul 2007)

Well seing as i dropped myself in it i thought id better get on with it :lol: 
The aim is to show how to build a window with very basic or cheap tools (the way i started making things as i built up my workshop and work load ) I will be using my bigger machinery to speed up my progress but i will try and show the tools that i used to use .

To start i measured my old window , i had to remove the arcitrave to get the outside measurements of the frame . My window is 540 mm wide X 1220 mm high and the cill over hangs on the outside by 70 mm each side , there is also a top opener and a bottom opener .
I'm going to make the new window to comply with the regs so it will be rebated to take a 4mm , 16mm gap , 4mm k glass double glazed unit .


First the frame ,

I took some old stock from my timber rack and cut two side rails at 1240mm , a top and mid rail at 560mm and the cill section at 680mm .
(please note the detailed drawing at the bottom of the picture)







I then marked out one side rail and one cross member and transferred the marks over to the other members .






For the side rail i allowed 10mm waste 45mm for the cill then up to mark out the mid rail 45mm and then up to the top rail at 1230mm (adding the 10mm waste allowed at the bottom) and then measure back 45mm for the top rail . The cross members where 10mm waste 45mm , 550mm and back 45mm . 
The 45 mm is to allow for the joints . I hope that made sense :shock: 

I then had to mark out the mortice and tenons , i hold the tape across the timber to read 120mm or what ever is easiest to divide into 3 . 120mm lets me mark off at 40mm , 80mm and i can set my mortice gauge to those points .







Time to start cutting , i mark an M for mortice and a t for tenon on all my parts as the bigger the window or windows the more parts you have and could chop off the wrong bit . The mortices on the top and cill can be ripped down with a saw as the will be an open ended mortice and tenon anyway .







The cross grain on the mortice holes can be drilled out with a 3d bit and cleaned up with a chisel . I still do this for my frames as it's quicker than setting up the mortice machine for one offs .











For the mid rail you will need to cut out on the back of the mortice for the wedges






Cut the cheeks off your tenons , you could set the depth stop on your chopsaw if you have one but again for one offs i just cut them by hand as it's quicker .












don't forget to keep your tenon cheeks as they are one third the size of your timber so ideal to make the wedges .

I find it a good idea to make sure my joints are a good fit as i cut them and number them if i'm doing a big window as by the end you could have loads of parts that look the same .

Thats it for this instalment . 1/2 the frame made but it was getting a bit late to be banging out the rest of the mortice holes .


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## DomValente (25 Jul 2007)

Good job Jason, by the time you've had your nap, we'll be ready for the next episode.  

Dom


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## Paul Chapman (25 Jul 2007)

Great stuff, Jason =D> Very helpful. Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## John McM (25 Jul 2007)

Terrific stuff, thanks for taking the time.


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## JFC (25 Jul 2007)

I hope its ok , i'm afraid i'm no expert when it comes to explaining things and showing pics that explain things but i did my best  I'll try and do a bit more tomorrow .


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## Niki (25 Jul 2007)

Thank you so much Jason

I never made doors or windows and it is very interesting for me.

Looks like next time I'll visit Japan, I'll have to buy a few good Japanese saws and chisels since on my garage door it's written "No entry to hand tools"...well, I shall have to "jump to the cold water" one day...

Thanks
niki


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## engineer one (25 Jul 2007)

nice one jason, thanks.

worryingly looks like you have tidyied up since my last visit???
sure you can find things???

your words are perfect when put in with the pictures

paul :wink:


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## JFC (25 Jul 2007)

I did have a tidy up after the fire and promised myself to keep it that way as it was a pleasure to work that way ........but i'm so busy it's mayhem again


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## Newbie_Neil (26 Jul 2007)

Hi Jason

Thank you for taking the time. It is much appreciated.

Cheers
Neil


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## Vormulac (26 Jul 2007)

Nice one JFC! Looking forward to the next gripping installment!  

V.


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## Thallow (26 Jul 2007)

More Please  

I find myself keep logging on to check any further updates :shock: 

I really do need to get out more i know  

Still where i live (#-o ) I think am going to light the woodburner and get the coffee on  

Thanks for your time and effort =D>


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## Mike Saville (26 Jul 2007)

Thanks JFC. Looking forward to the next installment. 

Quick question - what's the timber you're using & what would you recommend for windows? TIA.


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## JFC (26 Jul 2007)

I'm using Meranti but Sapele would be better . A good quality softwood would also do , like Douglas fir . Most of the windows i do are either Meranti or a Joinery grade redwood .


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## JFC (26 Jul 2007)

I've finished the rest of the mortices so now the frame is ready for glue up .






Once the joints are glued and put together check for square and add your clamps . I clamp up and use 3" screws to hold my open M&T 's together .









Once the open joints are done it's time for the wedges 







I now remove the clamps so i can check for square and wind , i like to make sure every thing is in order before the glue dries and to be honest with the screws and wedges in place the joints are going nowhere .
To check for square i use a pinch rod , a nail in a bit of wood . Put the nail into one corner and mark of the diagonal corner , now do the same to the other diagonal , if the mark is in the same place your square , if it's not (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) it till it is . 








Now check that the window frame is in wind , if you look along the top of one rail and it meets the bottom of the other rail when you move it up and down with your line of vision then its in wind 







If it's not (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) it till it is :lol: 
you will need to pull it into wind the same as squaring it so by holding one diagonal against something and pulling the other diagonal round you should be able to pull it into wind . This is why i take the clamps off right away , so i can do all this if needed while the glue is still wet .


Now we are square and in wind you can replace the clamps if you like , i don't bother and get on with cleaning up . So cut off all the 10mm overhangs and 10mm tenons sticking out of the mortices . If moving the frame around alot then it's a good idea to leave the top and bottom horns on to protect the corners until it's ready to be fitted .







A final clean up of the glue and a quick sand up and our frame is ready to measure for the openers and stop beads .






If your window frames are bigger than this one i.e. have a middle upright or two then the process is the same at marking out as the side rails but when you are cutting them instead of cutting a mortice for the mid rail cut the timber in the middle of that joint and do two stop tenons on them and put the mortice holes in the mid rail .


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## Alex (26 Jul 2007)

Something not right here. 
Is it just me isn't there a fundamental problem in your frame. Frames usaully have rebates which the opening window or door closes against. The rebate is the secondary weather defence and where building reg require you to have a weather seal, I fit the Aquamac 21 to frames I've done. 
The bottom cill is completely wrong in my mind. Even if you put slap on strips for rebates your going to have problems.
Just my take on it though.

Please correct me if I've missed something here. :? 

Alex


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## JFC (26 Jul 2007)

Your quite right if you want to build things the "new way" i prefer the "old way" tried and tested for a few hundred years and allowing for the new glass regs . I'm glad for your input though , this is just the way i do it .


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## mel (27 Jul 2007)

hi jason 
welcome to the forum :lol: :lol: 
have you ever considered doing an article for the magazines ???
im sure youd turn "fine woodworking" into a best seller 
keep up the good work mate 
are you sure you dont do this for a living ???


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## Alex (27 Jul 2007)

Hi JFC, I look forward to the learning curve. :lol: 

I find the more I learn the less I know. Well ignorances is bliss! :lol: 

Alex


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## JFC (27 Jul 2007)

Adding seals seems to be the trend for some reason . I cant see why you would want to cut a rebate into a brand new frame to add a seal that will last a couple of years before it splits , stops the door or window from closing and is a PITA to paint around aswell as trapping water. These seals also mean you have to hang the door / window away from the stop so when it does get ripped out your left with a gap and have to go through the whole process again .

These frames are about 120 years old and have plant on stops . The frames are fine and i'm making new openers for them .







I agree with you on the cill section , the idea of this thread was to show how to make a window with basic tools , this means i bought in the timber sections rather than making them . The cill section i have has a 4" flat and a 2" bevel . It would be better to have a 2" flat and a 4" bevel but it doesn't . Adding a weather bar to the window should stop any water sitting on the flat .


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## Scrit (27 Jul 2007)

Jason

Do you add a cold stop groove around your frames? Also what about a drip groove?

Scrit


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## Paul Chapman (27 Jul 2007)

Scrit":2mjjytor said:


> Do you add a cold stop groove around your frames? Also what about a drip groove?



Scrit, I know what a drip groove is, but what's a cold stop groove?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## JFC (27 Jul 2007)

The drip groove is already in the cill section that i buy off the shelf . The cold groove i thought was for getting a key in the mortar or for the expanding foam . I seem to remember on some of the UPVC windows and doors there is a frame tie that twists into this groove rather than screwing the frame tie to the plastic .
As most of my windows and doors are going into existing properties i don't put this groove in because i fix the frames in with screws .


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## Scrit (27 Jul 2007)

A cold stop groove is often found on modern factory produced windows. It is a groove which runs around the outside of the frame. Having talked to Jason we've sort of come to the conclusion that it is a method of keying in the frame to the masonry when expanding foam is used to seal in the frame. Perhaps Mr G would be able to shed some more light on the subject

Scrit


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## Benchwayze (27 Jul 2007)

Joinery Grade Redwood! Where?
 

Scene:
My local timber merchant. It went something like this. 

Me. "Do you have any joinery grade softwood?' I said softwood, 'cos I guessed the assistant might think redwood was well... really, really, red! 
He waved his arm towards the timber that was piled on end. "We only stock the best mate. Take your pick."

I saw plenty of shakes, bowed planks, twisted planks, knots, and all of it sticky with resin. But no nice, dry JGS!

Me. "Okay then. Have you got any builders' planks?"
"Most of the lads just use what's there."

I thought. "Yeah I bet they do!"
I left, and went to Henry Venables for some hardwood instead! 

Can't get the staff y'know.
 
John


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## Benchwayze (27 Jul 2007)

JFC":2ob4ce5f said:


> I did have a tidy up after the fire and promised myself to keep it that way as it was a pleasure to work that way ........but i'm so busy it's mayhem again



Do you work alone J?

Just wondered if you might be teaching a youngster some of these skills you have. Said youngster could start by learning how to keep the shop tidy! :shock:    :shock:


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## engineer one (27 Jul 2007)

john, that wouldn't work, jason would lose the apprentice in the shop or crossing the koi pond bringing the tea in :lol: :lol: 

anyway jas would never find his tools if it was tidy, says someone who having filled some of the drawer i have made finds himself with even more tools he did not know he had :? and few of those are gloat worthy :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## JFC (27 Jul 2007)

I had an apprentice a while ago but now most of my work is workshop based it would be too much hassle changing all the machines and keeping an eye on him / her ...... Her , hmmmmmmm , maybe i'll have a rethink :lol:


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## engineer one (27 Jul 2007)

clump clump here comes the ealf and safety gnome????

all those guards, and would you need to get 110 volts??

anyway today's youngsters don't want to make tea :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## Anonymous (27 Jul 2007)

Benchwayze":3gvnv5l6 said:


> Joinery Grade Redwood! Where?
> 
> 
> Scene:
> ...


Joinery grade redwood is available you just have to find the right timber merchant. There will be one near you.
What you ask for is "unsorted" swedish redwood. Unsorted Russian also good. Next grade down is swedish 5ths or russian 4ths which also can be excellent . Avoid a yard where they will let you choose your boards - this may mean that others have been there before you and already taken the best stuff, or worse - the yard itself will have sorted out the best stuff for their own uses.
The only thing that's hard to get nowadays is the larger sizes say over 10". Thats because that would have to be cut from old virgin forest whereas most of what's available is farmed - and eco friendly etc.
Softwood gets rubbished a lot on this group which is a big mistake. 

cheers
Jacob


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## Anonymous (27 Jul 2007)

Scrit":3vsoxsn2 said:


> A cold stop groove is often found on modern factory produced windows. It is a groove which runs around the outside of the frame. Having talked to Jason we've sort of come to the conclusion that it is a method of keying in the frame to the masonry when expanding foam is used to seal in the frame. Perhaps Mr G would be able to shed some more light on the subject
> 
> Scrit


Dunno can't account for modern practices. It would be a benefit in forming an air gap I guess, but it's not something I've ever found in old joinery. Also it'd break the continuity from front to back and so prevent water being blown across.
BTW trad joinery NEVER EVER has the backs underside or tops of frames painted with primer or anything, and an air gap is always maintained by packing or whatever. Draughts are sealed off though, with mastic, but as little as necessary. NEVER packed with mortar in the modern way as this is a really bad water retaining detail, esp at the foot.

cheers
Jacob


cheers
Jacob


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## bugbear (27 Jul 2007)

JFC":127zsaju said:


>



That's definitely not a "polished and dust-sheeted every night" sort of bench, is it 

BugBear


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## engineer one (27 Jul 2007)

as usual jacob useful and valuable information. 

only comment is that surely one of the reasons for much of the old traditional gaps was to do with the houses having coal fires, and thus needing more air movement?? 
also of course none of the modern "wonder " materials were available :lol: :twisted: 

interesting comments about softwood, i think the important thing is it is no longer sold as a particular species so it is a generic wood, and until you know what you are looking for it is difficult to understand what wood can be used for what purpose.

maybe that is something we can look at promoting here, wood understanding and explanations. i mean many of us older ones have heard of poplar and london plane, but what are the modern replacements, and what can we use them for??

paul :wink:


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## Anonymous (27 Jul 2007)

engineer one":3nob4krq said:


> snip
> interesting comments about softwood, i think the important thing is it is no longer sold as a particular species so it is a generic wood, and until you know what you are looking for it is difficult to understand what wood can be used for what purpose.
> snip


"Redwood" is a softwood and the most common joinery timber. It's the UK name for timber from just one species; Scots Pine. Nothing to do with the redwood tree. Can also be called red deal, yellow deal, red pine and other names often related to where it came from such as "Archangel pine".
"Whitewood" can be various species with spruce most common, also called white deal, white pine and various other names.
Its all really confusing!

cheers
Jacob


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## JFC (27 Jul 2007)

Just to let you know Jacob , those frames where primed by the customer before i picked them up :wink: 



Ok , ready to make the casements now . So i have got my sizes at 720mm x 448mm for the bottom opener and 362mm x 448mm for the top opener . I am using 94mm x45mm for the bottom rail of the bottom opener and 64mm x 45mm for all the other rails . I've beefed up the sizes of the 64mm rails from 45 mm x 45mm because i want to put a 15mm rebate in them to hide the metal bar in the double glazed unit . If i used 45mm x 45mm i wouldn't be able to fit any iron mongery on the windows to keep them shut . (don't ask how i found this out please  )

I marked them out the same way as the frame , adding the 10mm waste then 49mm ( 64 - 15 ) up to 720mm and back 79mm ( 94 - 15) for the bottom rail . Then transfer the marks over to the other stile . The same on the top rail 10mm , 49mm , 362mm and back 49mm . All the top and bottom rails where 10 mm , 49 mm 448mm and back 49mm .






Because we are using 45mm thick timber everything is a bit tight to get the 24mm dg unit in . I now get my stock milled up for me at 65mm x 50mm and 95mm x 50mm to give me more room for a thicker glazing bead . On this window i will be going for a 6mm glazing bead and bead the window from the inside . I want a chamfer on the out side to give the impression that the window is puttied in rather than beaded .


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## OPJ (28 Jul 2007)

Thanks also for this thread. I'd like to replace the horrible little window I have in my garage with a traditional timber effort but my memory's a little rusty since college as I don't actually make these in my current job.

I've also found it quite common locally for people to add hardwood (usually sapele) cils to an otherwise softwood construction. Pressure treated softwood seems to be used in roofing and similar applications these days, but why not window frames?

Can I also ask what you'd use to finish it? I've heard some paints can actually increase the chances of timber rotting outdoors.

Keep it coming, please!


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## JFC (28 Jul 2007)

Pressure treated timber isn't used because its not joinery grade timber . If you plane a peice up you will see what i mean . I'm afraid i'm not a expert on finishes , i hate that part :lol: although after seeing the spray work today at Matts (more tools please ) place i think i may be spraying it .

On to the window ......

Rebates , i did mine on the spindle moulder in one pass 8) but there are plenty of ways as you may well know . I used to hog out the main material on the table saw and use the off cut to make the beading to hold the glass in place ( beading recovery ) . If you don't have a router table the a bearing guided rebate cutter will do although the most you be able to get is 12mm on the rebate , i'm after 15mm . (you maybe able to get a deeper rebate but i don't know of a rebate bearing guided cutter that will go bigger than 12mm )






If you do have a router table then a straight cutter will give you the rebate you need . 







Both cutters will take quite a few passes if you don't hog out the material first .

Now the chamfer 
You want this to be the same depth as the rebate as it makes it easier to cut the tenon shoulders rather than having stepped shoulders . 








The plan is to cut away the chamfer on the morticed stile where the M&T shoulders meet .

Again loads of ways to do this with router cutters ets but i though id use a normal smoothing plane just for fun . Normally i would leave the timber at longer lengths (2-3M ) but as i am using off cuts and i am trying to show how i make windows i cut them to length first .






I leave a flat of about 2mm where the chamfer meets the rebate as taking it to a point will :
1; get damaged very quickly
2; be the first place to rot and
3; i need something square as a datum for when i cut away the moulding on the morticed rail .

Marking out the mortice and tenons .

1/3 of the timber like the frame or 1/2" if you have a mortice machine .








I cut the tenons full size even though it's a haunched M&T that will be used . For the mortice you need to mark full size on the front but half way on the back and include the marks for wedges .






One mortice is bigger for the bottom rail on the bottom opener .


now cut the tenon cheeks with a very expensive specialized saw :lol:


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## JFC (30 Jul 2007)

Now the mortices , a 3D bit is again a good way to hog out the main material .






Because it's a haunched joint you need to cut half a full mortice and the last part is half way down like a stop mortice . 








don't forget to cut out for the wedges .







Once you have cut the haunch on the tenon you can slide the joint together and mark where the beading needs to be cut away on the side stile (morticed part )














Both beads need a 45* cut on them , if you cut just shy of the line you can scribe the joint in as you put it together .







slide the saw down the mitre until the shoulders meet .








One haunched mortice and tenon , do this for all the joints and it's time for clamp up .








Sorry about the gap , i was holding one part in my hand and the other between my legs while trying to take a pic :lol:


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## engineer one (30 Jul 2007)

some people will do anything for sympathy :lol: :twisted: 

thought that was how you held all things :? 

nice pictures and very good work mate, well done, nice explanation too.

paul :wink:


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## JFC (30 Jul 2007)

Ta mate , it's harder work posting this than it is to make the window . :lol:


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## engineer one (30 Jul 2007)

well its only taken me about 3 years to learn how to post pictures properly.

now i have to learn about making things in wood :twisted: :lol: 

actually today finally got round to cutting up some more of that oak mdf, to make some more bookshelves and a printer support. boy the dust.
i had the vacuum fitted to the dx port on the 708, and there is still mdf dust in places i didn't know i had :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## DomValente (31 Jul 2007)

JFC":16394ldc said:


> Ta mate , it's harder work posting this than it is to make the window . :lol:



How true  

Dom


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## Loz_S (31 Jul 2007)

OPJ":33pipm0t said:


> ...snip... I've heard some paints can actually increase the chances of timber rotting outdoors.



That's a bit of an urban myth actually. Modern paint technology is far better than it was, so much better that the integrity of the finish is vital to the health of the timber. Any damage to the paint layer will accelerate water absorption at that point as moisture cannot escape anywhere else. 

However, most rotting of window frames that is blamed on modern paint systems is due to very poor or insufficient finishing of the INTERNAL frame surfaces. Modern homes are so well insulated that moisture from breathing and cooking cannot escape. If the internal paint finish is not as well sealed as the external, then the moisture concentrates in the frames until rotting occurs, from the inside out. Normally due to the warm moisture condensing against the cold external paint layer. When the sun eventually warms up the outer paint layer, the moisture evaporates causing bubbles under the paint which eventually crack.

Of course the timber needs to be sufficiently dry before painting which is why in the past most frames (over here at least) were undercoated at the factory in an open paint system that allowed moisture out but wouldn't let any more water in. Nowadays though a completley closed paint system is used, but only applied to wood under 18% MC.

So if you are going to paint a new frame it is actually more important to paint the INSIDE first!


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## Dave S (31 Jul 2007)

engineer one":1bxi3edy said:


> nice pictures and very good work mate, well done, nice explanation too.


I agree. I think I would be tempted to have a go now, whereas before it was all a bit of a mystery.
Dave


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## JFC (31 Jul 2007)

Dave , that is great to hear ! Ill try and do some more as soon as i can .


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## Niki (31 Jul 2007)

Thank you so much JFC

I'm "swallowing" your "how to" and watching it every day....and you really use very simple tools...

As one that made a few long pictorial posts, I agree with you that sometimes, to take the pictures, takes more time than the work itself.

I very much appreciate your effort

Thanks
niki


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## JFC (7 Aug 2007)

Sorry i've not had an update i've been snowed under with work . I will try and get some more done soon ...... it's nearly finished i promise :lol:


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## engineer one (7 Aug 2007)

you mean you have been working :twisted: :roll: rather than teaching us?????

jason where are your priorities. :lol: 

actually you are lucky to be able to do both 8) 

paul :wink:


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## JFC (15 Aug 2007)

At last i managed to do a little bit more this afternoon .
All the haunched M&T cut 








And the most basic of mistakes was made , for some reason i didn't mark out the side stiles for the bottom window back to back . The result is to stiles the same way round .






Annoying but it's sort of good it happened on this one as it shows what not to do .
It's very simple to get around a mistake like this , what you need to do is see what one is the best and set it aside . The other one gets thrown across the workshop while screaming blue murder .....after mumbling to yourself for a while you make another one the right way round .

Clamping up , much the same as the frame . Check for square with your pinch rod and make sure the opener is in wind by lining up the edges with your eye .






Again i put the wedges in after the glue has gone off so i don't knock the opener out of square when knocking them in .


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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)

*Jason wrote:*


> And the most basic of mistakes was made , for some reason i didn't mark out the side stiles for the bottom window back to back . The result is to stiles the same way round .



   :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## engineer one (15 Aug 2007)

gee dom, just when we thought you were subtle :twisted: :lol: :lol: :twisted: :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)

Can't write, still laughin'


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## JFC (15 Aug 2007)

Shurrup you ! I was making 50 other windows at the time and my mind wasn't on this one . :lol: At least it's the right colour  :lol:


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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)




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## Anonymous (15 Aug 2007)

Spare the ROD, spoil the job 8) 
Ditto the face and edge marks of course :lol: 
cheers
Jacob


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## JFC (15 Aug 2007)

Yeah i know i could have just made another one and kept my mouth shut but it's better to show a mistake so people can see what a PITA it is and them not do it eh . Anyway i have made a new record launch for that bit of timber . I beat the last effort by 1.2m :lol:


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Thank you JFC

Maybe I'm missing something but, assuming that all the tenons and mortises are at the same level, if you'll turn the right stile (on the picture), 180° will it not fit to the tenons? I mean, is there any difference between the left and the right stiles.

niki


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## JFC (15 Aug 2007)

Niki , the bottom rail is larger than the top rail by around 30mm . If it was on the top opener it wouldn't matter but the bottom opener has a larger bottom rail .


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Wakarimashita (Japanese - I understood)

Well, in that case, also my neighborhood kids would learn some new vocabulary 

Thanks
niki


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## JFC (21 Aug 2007)

Once out of the clamps i glue the wedges in . I was actually taught to do this on glue up as the way you put the wedges in tightens the joint to the shoulder but as i said before i do it after as i need to speed things up to earn a living and squaring clamping and then wedging saves alot of messing about i think .






I still use the same practice of knocking in the outside wedges first .







Once you have fitted the wedges and cut them flush and have cut of the horns like on the frame check it fits :lol: 

I use a belt sander to clean up but a hand plane or sanding by hand can be used , it just isn't as quick .







I run the belt sander all over the window not just the edges .
Once that is done you can cut your beading to hold the glass in and pin it in so you don't loose it . 1 pin left proud does the trick











One window ready to hang . The other may take a while as i messed up the stile and i'm still very busy but the practice is the same so i wont be taking pics of that one .


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## JFC (21 Aug 2007)

P.S The good thing about cleaning up with a belt sander is you can fill all the gaps with glue and the sander pushes the sawdust into them :lol: 
I use worn out 80 grit for my cleaning up .


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## OPJ (21 Aug 2007)

JFC":cftaqjok said:


> Pressure treated timber isn't used because its not joinery grade timber . If you plane a peice up you will see what i mean .



Sorry, I wasn't clear on what I meant.

I didn't mean to refer to the 'fencing-grade' pressure-treated timber you can buy off the shelf. I actually meant to suggest cutting the cills, jambs, etc. out joinery timber and having that pressure-treated after all the machining is done.


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## JFC (21 Aug 2007)

Then you will be making something square and in wind and filling it full of moisture ........ boing ...... all your hard work at the clamping stage gone up the spout . I suppose you could treat it with some kind of timber preserve but thats what paint is isn't it ? As i said before i'm not the best to ask about finishes , maybe someone else has some input ?


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## Niki (21 Aug 2007)

JFC":25ifwht7 said:


> I use a belt sander to clean up but a hand plane or sanding by hand can be used , it just isn't as quick .



Thank you JFC

A tool that is not connected to a battery or a cord???....I know only one...clamps 

niki


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## engineer one (21 Aug 2007)

nice one jason, see the workshop is still a little how can i say it, "comfortable" :lol: 

thanks for a helpful set of instructions.

paul :wink:


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## dexteria (22 Aug 2007)

Hi Jason,

Nice work. Where did you get the beading snips from. Are they any good?

Cheers

Mark


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## Newbie_Neil (22 Aug 2007)

Hi Jason

Thank you for taking the time to photograph and post this thread. I have found it to be excellent.

Cheers,
Neil


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## JFC (22 Aug 2007)

I got the beading shears from the D and M trade show but i have just called them and they said they don't sell them . Thats not to say they don't it just means the person i spoke to doesn't know what i'm talking about :lol: I think they are great and very quick to use , you can get some slipping on thicker beading but its still a fast way to do beading .
Glad you all like the thread


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## andy king (22 Aug 2007)

Hi Mark,

The guys on the Bessey stand used to have them on sale, though I'm not sure if they still do them in their range. (They aren't a Bessey product)Here's the details.

Cheers,
Andy

LJ Hydleman and Co Ltd
Marton Street
Skipton
BD23 1TF
Tel: 01756 798625
www.hydleman.co.uk


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## Keith Smith (22 Aug 2007)

I went to a show last month and Bessey had the shears on their stand. Looked good value for money, I think they were only about £20.


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## dexteria (22 Aug 2007)

Thanks, I'll give them a call.

Mark


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## andy king (23 Aug 2007)

Not sure if Jason got the same ones as I reviewed, but they had a set of interhangeable heads, one does a swivel mitre for different angles, the other for shearing plastic pipes that plumbers use. Certainly an upgrade of the simple 45/45 degree ones I bought and used for gaskets on glazing for many a year, so a bargain at twenty quid!

Andy


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## JFC (23 Aug 2007)

Yup thats the ones . Bargin untill i bought some clamps aswell :lol:


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## Newbie_Neil (23 Aug 2007)

JFC":118qvyll said:


> Bargin untill i bought some clamps aswell :lol:



ROTFL.

Cheers,
Neil


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## JFC (1 Sep 2007)

Hanging the top opener .

I normally leave 75mm from the edge for the hinge but because this is a small window 65mm looked better . So draw around the hinge and chop out the out line and then cut the depth as on the left . 







Once cut in line up your opener so the gaps at the sides are even and mark off the sides of the hinges on your frame .






Line up a spare hinge with your marks and your ready to cut out the frame side .








I use a hole center finder to predrill the screw holes .They are quite cheap and actually work :shock: 







Now your ready to hang the opener , you close it for the first time and it doesn't shut . 








Don't worry and don't go chopping more out of the hinges just yet [-X 
The leading edge will probably need taking off . Look at the big gap at the top and the bottom is hitting but i know that the gaps where ok from shooting in the window as shown above . Plus the gap from the outside of the window look fine .


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