# upgrading chipbreaker on my Stanley and Record bailey planes



## Dovetaildave (11 Dec 2012)

*Does anyone on here have experience with chipbreaker upgrades Stanley and Record bailey planes*


I have a combination of Blades; Clifton, QS and possibly gonna be given some "surprises" this xmas.

I want to buy chipbreakers for this mix of blades.

Options are; Hock, Lie Neilsen (Stanley version), QS,

I've been told ; "Hock's chip breaker will lie closer to the iron and has a bevel on the edge that may not close down the throat of the plane as much."
Does anyone second this comment?

Thanks,
Dave


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## Paul Chapman (11 Dec 2012)

If you want the best get the Clifton two-piece cap iron - I have them on all my bench planes.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## DTR (11 Dec 2012)

I've put Record Stay Set cap irons (similar to the Clifton two piece) on my bench planes. I can't say I've noticed a difference in performance, but it does make sharpening a tad faster.


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## Argus (11 Dec 2012)

.


At the risk of not spending money at christmas.........        

2 - piece cap irons are only an advantage if you sharpen by hand - without a honing guide - as they won't fit in commercially made guides with the back part in place. Having to remove the back part to hone up in a guide defeats the objective.

The purpose of a two-piece is to enable rapid and repetetive sharpening by removing the need to unscrew the cap iron when sharpening. 

Personally speaking, I cannot say that I have had problems with even bog-standard Stanley / Record chip-breakers (which are very poorly finished straight from the box) if they are fettled up a bit before use:

1 - Make sure that the edge is straight and square - a bit of filing will bring it into line.
2 - Make sure that the under side that is in contact with the back of the blade is dead flat and has a clean edge that sits in good contact along the edge of the blade back without any gaps - more filing.
3 - Finally, it helps to reduce the friction on the rounded nose with a bit of a polish up.

I think that is all a chip breaker needs to work well.

The final parts of the equation to ensure a good cut is the position of the chip-breaker in relation to the cutting edge relative to the type of wood you are cutting and the width of the mouth....... Oh, yes .... and a sharp blade.

As an added thought, plenty of wooden planes work very well indeed without any backing irons or chip breakers; just a thick, sharp chunk of good steel and a wedge.


All best 


.


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## Dangermouse (11 Dec 2012)

I have fitted QS irons and chip breakers to some of my planes, and it does make for a better plane. They cut through hardwood and curly grain like butter.
Just fitting thicker chip breakers might help by stiffening the thinner Stanley blade. this would help stop chatter. But I would say fit both a thicker iron and chip breaker together for the best results.


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## Fromey (11 Dec 2012)

+1



Dangermouse":216523nd said:


> I have fitted QS irons and chip breakers to some of my planes, and it does make for a better plane. They cut through hardwood and curly grain like butter.
> Just fitting thicker chip breakers might help by stiffening the thinner Stanley blade. this would help stop chatter. But I would say fit both a thicker iron and chip breaker together for the best results.


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## GazPal (11 Dec 2012)

Both Record Stay-Set and Clifton two-piece cap irons fit in commercially made honing guides, BUT typically ones made in the style of Eclipse #36 guide.


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## Gerard Scanlan (11 Dec 2012)

Clifton two-piece cap irons are terrific. I know that some people don't agree but I was about to buy replacement irons for my stanley planes from Workshop Heaven and Matthew suggested I buy a Clifton 2 piece cap iron instead for a lot less money and see if that didn't make a difference. Well I have never considered replacing the irons since but all my planes have a clifton 2 piece cap iron. The plane cuts better and stays sharper for a lot longer. You can hone the blade with a Richard Kell guide without having to remove the top part of the cap iron.


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## Vann (11 Dec 2012)

Argus":2ip95f21 said:


> 2 - piece cap irons are only an advantage if you sharpen by hand - without a honing guide - as they won't fit in commercially made guides with the back part in place. Having to remove the back part to hone up in a guide defeats the objective.
> 
> The purpose of a two-piece is to enable rapid and repetetive sharpening by removing the need to unscrew the cap iron when sharpening.


There's more than one purpose to the Record/Clifton two-piece cap-iron. Firstly, it allows easier honing by hand, as you only have to lift the "deflector" off to hone. Though I don't agree that they're "Stay-Set" as lateral adjustment is affected, and depth adjustment still needs a final re-tune.

The hinged design of the two-piece cap-iron helps keep the irons flat against the frog face, whereas the standard Stanley type cap-iron tensions the cutting iron which puts a slight curve into the irons, which encourages chattering.

The great mass of the thicker two-piece also helps to dampen chatter, though that is also true of the thicker one-piece after-market cap-irons (L-N etc). A good cap-iron can upgrade a plane just as much as a new thicker cutting iron - without the faffing around with extending the yoke and filing the mouth.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.


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## paulm (11 Dec 2012)

GazPal":1m0syvt0 said:


> Both Record Stay-Set and Clifton two-piece cap irons fit in commercially made honing guides, BUT typically ones made in the style of Eclipse #36 guide.



Yep, sharpen mine in the eclipse, just removing the bottom piece of the cap iron first. 

I keep the veritas guide for chisels as I find being able to easily add more pressure to the corners of the plane iron in the eclipse helpful in putting a very slight camber on the plane blades.

Cheers, Paul


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## Dovetaildave (12 Dec 2012)

*Thanks for all your input folks.*

I have taken the plunge and have bought a combination of Hock 2-5/8 and QS. (12% off at matthew's  ) I don't know how they will suit Baileys but will know soon.

*Dangermouse*, thanks for the words of experience, you didn't say if they were Baileys, I presumed they were/are. Ill be using combination of thick and thin blades.

*"Two piece boys"*- I can and used to hone freehand for 20 years, but now its become a bit of a science since I went and bought the Veritas 2, so I have to get some use from it.

I bought a cheap eclipse recently for cambering, I don't have a grinder so like the sandpaper suggestion on the flat plate, sounds good for major cambering.

*Once again .....Thanks * =D>


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## woodbrains (12 Dec 2012)

Hello,

I use the 2 piece cap irons and think they are the best things to do the job. I always remove the whole thing when honing, either freehand or with a jig. It takes no longer to do than removing a regular cap iron, so no need to avoid these just because you want to use a honing jig. That would be a pity, since the extra rigidity provided by thes irons is well worth having. Incidentally, I think the 'stay set' function of these irons is an artifact. The iron's need to be 2 pieces and hinged due to their extreme thickness, to allow the lever cap to exert clamping pressure. IMO this was the design brief and the other thing serendipitous rather than intentional. Those who find the 2 pieces finicky should tape the 2 together and use them as a regular one piece iron. The benefit of the extra mass and flat, chatter free cutter bedding is well worth the trouble.

Mike.


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## James C (13 Dec 2012)

I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade. 

I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.


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## woodbrains (13 Dec 2012)

James C":caceheeb said:


> I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.
> 
> I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.



Hello,

I don't doubt you might have had a dud Clifton. It may have been a good idea to have sent the thing back for exchange. However, because of all the variations in makes and ages of planes, the Clifton does have a lot of meat at the business end for modifying to suit. Once done, I'm sure it will not disappoint in performance. Most new one piece cap irons are designed not to arc the blade under tension as much as the original equipment would do; a recognsied flaw. The Clifton eliminates any chance of bowing the blade, by not needing any spring in it to exert pressure along the leading edge. The trick with the new one piece cap irons is not to over tighten the cap iron screw, and the iron assy will remain flat. The QS cap irons are very good value.

Mike.


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## GazPal (14 Dec 2012)

James C":220reo88 said:


> I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.
> 
> I too bought a QS cap iron recently and am looking to see how that pans out.



The nosing piece on two piece cap irons doesn't place any pressure on the iron until the lever cap is in place and locked down.


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## James C (14 Dec 2012)

GazPal":2h0kmwxu said:


> James C":2h0kmwxu said:
> 
> 
> > I have a Clifton 2 piece Cap Iron for my Stanley No7 and found that I had to do quite a bit of fettling before it was putting any pressure across the whole blade.
> ...



Yes this I know. I kept getting shavings working their way between the cap iron and the blade and clogging it up. Once I spent around 15 minutes on fettling and then polishing the chipbreaker I set it up in the exact same way and no more clogging.


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## GazPal (14 Dec 2012)

James C":21tktj1j said:


> Yes this I know. I kept getting shavings working their way between the cap iron and the blade and clogging it up. Once I spent around 15 minutes on fettling and then polishing the chipbreaker I set it up in the exact same way and no more clogging.



I think I'd have returned it for a replacement.


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## James C (14 Dec 2012)

I probably could have done, I have sent a Narex chisel back to WSH before because the face of the chisel was way off but this time it was a simple fix that I could easily correct and it performs excellently now.


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## GazPal (14 Dec 2012)

James C":aw0suhnp said:


> I probably could have done, I have sent a Narex chisel back to WSH before because the face of the chisel was way off but this time it was a simple fix that I could easily correct and it performs excellently now.



All's well then.


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## Dovetaildave (18 Dec 2012)

*Forget the Clifton references*.....The eBay seller never posted it, only replied to one email saying it would be a few days, not refunded. 
Shame I have a friend bringing me a chip breaker/cap iron back from the USA to go with it. 

I looked on her feedback and she's done the same to another two buyers since I bought the Clifton Blade from her. 

I don't know if I can name and shame her here, maybe some of you have also (not) received what you've paid for, or also not received feedback even after paying seconds after bidding ended. 

I asked someone if we should start a *blacklist* but they didn't think it would be worth it, what do you think?


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## AndyT (21 Dec 2012)

I sympathise, but I suspect that if you try to sort out an ebay dispute any way other than reporting it to their 'buyer protection' it could rebound against you. If your account gets suspended because they say you have broken a rule, you could be left unable to buy anything, which would hurt you more than it hurts the scamming seller.


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## Dangermouse (21 Dec 2012)

Ebay has gone from what once was a great online group of people selling and buying, to an oversized, money grabbing conglomerate, that has only one concern and that is profit. Full of stupid rules, designed for businesses selling thousands of items a day. The little man , they don’t give a damn about.


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## Fromey (21 Dec 2012)

The ebay Resolution Centrer works very well (at least in my experience).

I was sent a broken Stanley No71 plane recently. It was a direct result of the seller's incompetent packaging. I immediately sent them a message explaining the situation and asking for their address so I could send the item back and telling them I expected a full refund. They did not reply. I gave them a week. I then raised the issue with the ebay |Resolution Centre. They got back to me immediately telling me to contact the seller to resolve the issue. I replied that I had already done that. They then immediately asked me to wait two days while they consulted. They then told me they had ruled in my favour and sent me a Parcelforce label to print out and put on the parcel (covering all postage costs) with up to 9 days to send the item back. I did so and received a full refund, including the postage I had initially paid. All up, it took a few days after raising the issue and they were very prompt and communicative. Thus, if you have any issues, I'd give the seller one try at resolving it. If the don't go straight to the Resolution Centre. If it's genuinely not your fault and you can clearly describe the issue, I think they will most likely rule in your favour and then give the seller a bollocking.


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## Dangermouse (21 Dec 2012)

Fromey":1dnb106i said:


> The ebay Resolution Centrer works very well (at least in my experience).
> 
> I was sent a broken Stanley No71 plane recently. It was a direct result of the seller's incompetent packaging. I immediately sent them a message explaining the situation and asking for their address so I could send the item back and telling them I expected a full refund. They did not reply. I gave them a week. I then raised the issue with the ebay |Resolution Centre. They got back to me immediately telling me to contact the seller to resolve the issue. I replied that I had already done that. They then immediately asked me to wait two days while they consulted. They then told me they had ruled in my favour and sent me a Parcelforce label to print out and put on the parcel (covering all postage costs) with up to 9 days to send the item back. I did so and received a full refund, including the postage I had initially paid. All up, it took a few days after raising the issue and they were very prompt and communicative. Thus, if you have any issues, I'd give the seller one try at resolving it. If the don't go straight to the Resolution Centre. If it's genuinely not your fault and you can clearly describe the issue, I think they will most likely rule in your favour and then give the seller a bollocking.



They must have upped their game a lot then since I last had a run in with their "Resolution Centre" and a good thing too. ! :ho2


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## Fromey (21 Dec 2012)

I did qualify what I said as, "at least in my experience" YMMV.


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## Mike Wingate (23 Dec 2012)

If my planes don't have Rob Cosman chipbrealkers, they have Quangsheng ones, from no 3's through to 7's. What a difference they make. I have QS blades along with Samurai laminated and RCosmans fitted, a bit of fettling was needed on most.


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## Dovetaildave (24 Dec 2012)

Hi Mike,

She looks real gooood !

PM'ed you


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