# Home Made Drum Sander - WIP



## kinsella (24 May 2015)

Hi Chaps
Can't see any other examples on the forum (might be my rubbish searching) but thought i'd share my Work In Progress (WIP) photos. I see others have the same questions regarding motors that i do. Currently working on the body and shaft. See photos.

I also have another topic for the motor which is here
motor-wiring-t89436.html


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## kinsella (24 May 2015)

Latest work. Trying to work out the V belt size at present


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## kinsella (24 May 2015)

This may be a stupid question, but does anyone know which side i should put the pivot for the motor fixing. I want to use the motor as the tension for the belt. On the attached images the motor makes the shaft turn towards you. ie you are looking at the feed side of the table. I'm going to fix the pivot of the motor on the side you can see. Does that sound right?


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## blackrodd (24 May 2015)

Thanks for posting this WIP I'll find this very interesting.
My suggestion, if I understand correctly, regarding the motor mounting is,
check which way the motor rotates first (if you haven't got it) and save a wiring job.
Regards Rodders


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## frugal (25 May 2015)

Out of interest, how do you plan on making all those plywood discs perfectly round and true?


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## MickCheese (25 May 2015)

frugal":2tczzjij said:


> Out of interest, how do you plan on making all those plywood discs perfectly round and true?



If I were doing it, I would get them to be as round and true as possible then use the bed to sand them perfect. So attach abrasive to the bed and spin them with the motor.

Mick


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## kinsella (25 May 2015)

I'm going to mount them on the shaft and then turn them roughly round, once the bed is made I will then run a board with sandpaper on it under them, this way the disks will be parallel to the bed.


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## dc_ni (25 May 2015)

Check this out, John Heisz made a 2 x 72 belt grinder and on this video he is truing the wheels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2dDK6dq3qA&index=2&list=PLkBNR47uEZ7TFAjLyZwCIe6kJjB3lED1-


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## kinsella (25 May 2015)

Thanks Dave.
That was more or less how I'm going to do it.

WIP
Put the disks on the shaft to make sure they were loose enough to move. Fitted the motor. Motor worked out brill, its a water pump so has a very long shaft which was perfect, amazingly the existing mechanism when i reorganised it had two flanges when put back to back had an 18.3mm gap, which fitted my ply section perfectly. How trying to work out the V belt size and order one so i can turn the pulley wheels. 

Now glueing up the disks on the shaft. Will take me all week i suspect.


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## Trigs (25 May 2015)

Very brave, good job


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## kinsella (25 May 2015)

Trigs, its more stupidity at the moment. When i attach the Vee belt and press the on-switch, that will determine the bravery level. 

I've just printed stencils so that i can add the reminders on the machine. ie feed side and caution labels. There are no anti-kick back so its a machine to stand the to side on and make sure no one else is in the workshop. 

Having said that, i reckon it will have cost me £50-80 to build.


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## Adam9453 (28 May 2015)

I may be throwing a spanner in the mix but could you add a lower geared roller to the bed to power feed the sander, this should help avoid the dreaded kickback but I appreciate will take some head scratching regarding gear ratio to achieve the desired feed in speed.
Could even have different gears for different feed in speeds if you really want to fry your noodle.
Looks great by the way and i'll be interested to see how it turns out.


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## kinsella (29 May 2015)

Adam,
I could do, but it seems a lot of work to be honest. i see a few of them on youtube, but that may be a future modification. Now got the Vee belt will be working on the drive cams tomorrow.


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## kinsella (30 May 2015)

work in progress.
Managed to work out how to turn the pulleys. Glued up the disks on the shaft and tomorrow to work out how to true the shaft.


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## kinsella (31 May 2015)

Bit of a disaster today, Motor wasn't up it, so had to change to my metal lathe motor. Will now use the older one for a 12" home made disk sander. 

But finally mounted the new motor and got the disks more or less round. Next week will be working on the adjustable bed.


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## MMUK (31 May 2015)

http://www.calculatoredge.com/mech/vbelt%20length.htm


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## kinsella (6 Jun 2015)

Not much done today, just made the bed and put hardwood edging on the plywood frame.


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## kinsella (14 Jun 2015)

Rise and fall mechanism done, feed bed fitted with knobs to lock into position. All that's left to do now is sand it flat and build some guards to cover the drum and the belt.


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## mickthetree (15 Jun 2015)

excellent thread kinsella, keep them coming.

What did you use for the central bar? I've seen some people saying certain bars flex too much, but yours looks quite thick. be interested to hear where you got it from as well.

I have my motor ready and hope to start mine soon.


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## Exile (16 Jun 2015)

great project and its looks well built. I've been meaning to build a small one for some time now but never seem to have the time.

great job


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## kinsella (17 Jun 2015)

Sorry chaps, 
Mixed up my posts. I accidentally replied on my box making jig.
Yes the bar is 20mm thick. Got it off Ebay. Mild steel. Then 36 ply disks all clamped together. 

Mike. I'm a tad worried about that myself. I have a few ideas to fix it. Even the knobs when tightened will make the table move slightly. It will be a little trial and error. I have a digital metre that i can use to test if the table is parallel to the rollers. So will be giving that a go at the weekend. If i get inconsistent results, i was planning to add a horizontal bar beneath the table to then span 2/3rds of the width to give more support. I need to work on the knobs also to stop them climbing and falling on each side when tightened.


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## happymadison1978 (17 Jun 2015)

This is a great project. Fantastic ingenuity, really enjoying watching it unfold.


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## monkeybiter (17 Jun 2015)

mickthetree":1dcqln03 said:


> What did you use for the central bar? I've seen some people saying certain bars flex too much, but yours looks quite thick.



Judging by appearances any flexibility of the bar should be irrelevant, the necessary stiffness will be provided by the laminated ply stack, however the drawing [and the photo] show a 20mm bar. Or are you referring to a different bar?

Kinsella, I think I'd be a little worried about the table not always rising or staying parallel to the drum. I'll maybe go for a torsion box or thicker board when I copy yours :wink:


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## kinsella (17 Jun 2015)

Sorry chaps, 
Mixed up my posts. I accidentally replied on my box making jig.
Yes the bar is 20mm thick. Got it off Ebay. Mild steel. Then 36 ply disks all clamped together. 

Mike. I'm a tad worried about that myself. I have a few ideas to fix it. Even the knobs when tightened will make the table move slightly. It will be a little trial and error. I have a digital metre that i can use to test if the table is parallel to the rollers. So will be giving that a go at the weekend. If i get inconsistent results, i was planning to add a horizontal bar beneath the table to then span 2/3rds of the width to give more support. I need to work on the knobs also to stop them climbing and falling on each side when tightened.


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## mickthetree (18 Jun 2015)

Ah yes, I hadnt seen the measurement for the bar on the drawing.

Are the bearings SF20?


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## Ian down london way (18 Jun 2015)

I was looking at that and considering the problem of kick back and driving the material past the sander. It struck me that if one had tyred wheels whose bottom edge were aligned to the bottom of the sanding drum (could be fixed to the side) then they could help to hold the work down and if they were ratcheted internally, so that they turn only one way, they would help control / stop kick back, ensuring the wood was pushed through - by hand. I'm not sure where you can get one-way turning wheels from, and you may need an escape mechanism, to lift the wheels, just in case you do need to pull the wood back out the 'wrong way' - but maybe its worth considering.

Good luck !


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## kinsella (18 Jun 2015)

Mick
The bearings i used was "UCF 4 Bolt Flange Self Lube Bearing" from eBay, if you put that in the search bar on eBay you will find them. Regarding kickback. I'm expecting it, so when using it, the golden rule will be stand to the side and nobody else in my workshop when in use. I'm very meticulous when it comes to things like that so safety wise, I'm happy enough.

Ian, Regarding the tyre wheel that's a dame good idea and sounds like i could retro fit easy enough. When i get it up and running, i'll add my lessons learnt so that if i had my time over again i'll highlight what i would do again.


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## gasman (19 Jun 2015)

Apologies if you have covered this already but I also went down this route a couple of years ago and although I do not use it very often mine is invaluable. I made it whilst doing a campaign chest and a photo is in this old post https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/secretaire-campaign-chest-t76578-45.html?hilit=sander
I used 25mm bar and made the drum in the same way as you did from 3/4" MDF circles which I turned roughly but then finished with 80 grit sandpaper laid flat on the sander bed - that way I was ensured that the cylinder and sander bed were 'parallel' as it were. Does that make sense?
Mine works well - I used adhesive velcro paper and then 120 grit sandpaper - but that takes ages and actually, 80 grit is much quicker and seems not to leave much in the way of scratches - don't really understand why?
Looking really good though
Regards mark


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## kinsella (20 Jun 2015)

Chaps
I just measured the rod and i did indeed use a 25mm bar with matching flange bearings. 
Mark, snap! everything i'm doing is exactly as you say. I just today glued the 80g paper to a section of ply so as to level it tomorrow. The next trick is to see how the table works when i tighten the knobs. it looks like they move it out of parallel. But with the electronic metre i have i know exactly when its not true and i give it a thump. I could engineer something else but i'm going to leave it for the moment to see how it works. 

Tomorrows activity is to level the drum.


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## n0legs (20 Jun 2015)

Would a pair of those gas filled cabinet door stays help in keeping the table parallel?
The come in different weights/pressures 50Nm 80Nm etc.


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## kinsella (20 Jun 2015)

Not sure how they work but if they are not connected to each other, i can't understand why they would stay parallel. 
I think the solution was made by Mike earlier in the post. I think its just thicken up the top to another layers of 18mm ply. ie 36mm top to get extra stiffness.


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## n0legs (20 Jun 2015)

kinsella":2wczeq16 said:


> Not sure how they work but if they are not connected to each other, i can't understand why they would stay parallel.
> I think the solution was made by Mike earlier in the post. I think its just thicken up the top to another layers of 18mm ply. ie 36mm top to get extra stiffness.




I was wondering if they would help by applying some upwards pressure on each side/outer edge of the table, not sure.

Probably a thicker table is the answer. What would work really nice though is the geared rise and fall mechanism from a knackered 'lunch box' thicknesser.


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## kinsella (20 Jun 2015)

What is a "lunch box" thicknesser, tried a search on google and nothing obvious popping up? The other option would be two threaded rods to the sides connected by a chain to rise and fall at the same time.


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## n0legs (20 Jun 2015)

kinsella":16kt94f8 said:


> What is a "lunch box" thicknesser, tried a search on google and nothing obvious popping up? The other option would be two threaded rods to the sides connected by a chain to rise and fall at the same time.




One of these style thicknessers
https://www.machinemart.co.uk/images/li ... 610250.jpg


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## kinsella (20 Jun 2015)

I see, probably easier to try thickening the top first. The other option is a car jack type mechanism which means i could weld a support to the top. Lets see how thickening goes.


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## monkeybiter (20 Jun 2015)

I think I'd be tempted to try making a pair of identical cams [mdf probably better than ply] fixed at either ends of a shaft under the rising edge of the table, as the shaft rotates both cams act on the underside of the table and raise it by an identical amount. Guaranteed parallel.


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## kinsella (21 Jun 2015)

Mike
I see what you mean. An interesting idea and actually simple. The test would be to get both shaft and cam rod exactly parallel.

I gave the bed a few tests today and using my digital angle gauge (http://www.axminster.co.uk/gemred-digital-bevel-box) i'm normaly within 0.1deg of parallel to the shaft. For what i'm doing that will be good enough.


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## kinsella (21 Jun 2015)

MickCheese":2rwl0d02 said:


> frugal":2rwl0d02 said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest, how do you plan on making all those plywood discs perfectly round and true?
> ...



I find myself today remember Mike's advice. I didnt make them as round as possible and thought i'd just leave it when i'm sanding the bed. True it will still work but its taking ages.


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## mickthetree (22 Jun 2015)

would love to see a video demo once it is running!!


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## mickthetree (22 Jun 2015)

I really like the simplicity of your design. There are lots of variations of this out there, but they get so over complicated. This should be a simple machine.


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## kinsella (28 Jun 2015)

Finally got the drum round and level. Its now varnished and next week to fix the Velcro and then give it a try.

Still a few glitches to sort. The pulley wheel isn't exactly round and thus it creates some vibration. So need to redo that at some point.
check out the video. 

https://youtu.be/8iIVsevv5GA


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## n0legs (28 Jun 2015)

I know you were only sanding the drum round but how did the motor do, no sign of it bogging down?
Seems like, from the video, you've got a fair bit of vibration, is that easily sorted?
Looking good so far =D>


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## mickthetree (29 Jun 2015)

Looks great!
Is the belt tension supplied by the weight of the motor? I read on a few drum sander threads that this can cause the motor to bounce and add vibration. Your motor looks quite jumpy. Maybe once you have the required tension you could lock it in place?

I still really like the simplistic approach you have here and I'm sure you'll iron out that vibration.


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## kinsella (29 Jun 2015)

The pulley attached to the drive shaft is not correct. Its off centre, which means that when the motor is on, it has the effect of lifting the motor up and down by 1/2". Speed that up by the RMP and you get the vibration. I need to turn a new one to remove the majority of vibration. 
The motor hangs from a hinge and that is what gives the tension. I also noticed that the drive pulley isn't exactly parallel to the shaft pulley. So again some minor tweaking to sort.

Any ideas if there is a right or wrong way to mount the velcro or the sanding paper onto the drum. ie clockwise/anti or left to right, alternative the two a different way or am i over thinking it??


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## kinsella (4 Jul 2015)

Finally starting to test it. Miscalculated the amount of velcro, back to eBay again.
This is how it works. It definitely needs s dust cover. As you can see in the video I start hacking at the end.

http://youtu.be/5jxuA1q5nNQ


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## monkeybiter (4 Jul 2015)

Can't see the vid, marked as private. I was looking forward to that.


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## kinsella (5 Jul 2015)

Oops, will amend


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## kinsella (5 Jul 2015)

Video now working I hope


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## monkeybiter (5 Jul 2015)

That looks great! Have you tried a wider board yet?


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## kinsella (5 Jul 2015)

No, but i think i need to. Today's task is to dismantle and apply varnish to all but the table top. Start making the dust cover and belt guards. Then lastly stick another layer to the table top for rigidity.


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## Woodmonkey (5 Jul 2015)

Great job, looks like it works well. Defo need some extraction on that puppy though!


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## n0legs (5 Jul 2015)

Well done, jobs a good 'un.
Does it cause any snipe at the ends like a thicknesser ?


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## dzj (5 Jul 2015)

So far so good. Well done!
I'm also interested how it will fare with a wider board.


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## kinsella (5 Jul 2015)

Progress today on a wet and miserable day in London. 

All varnished. Top doubled up for stiffness.


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## kinsella (5 Jul 2015)

Nolegs (either that's an unfortunate name or its a literal reference 

No, I don't see snipe, mind you if I did I'd shoot them if in season. 

I think you could use as a thicknesseser but if you are to remove large amounts of material, it might take a while. 
I saw on other posts that they recommend 60 or 80G. I have 120G on the video and it takes off a lot quickly. So 60g would be pretty quick. I might order some 80g during the week. 
It seems to have a natural way of working, I mean i don't think I can push it too quick. The finish it fairly even. I only did what you see in the video so when I get the extra Velcro I'll do a proper video.


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## andersonec (6 Jul 2015)

Nice job and thanks for the WIP. I think everyone is a little too concerned with 'kick back' and the potential of the motor 'bogging down', we must remember these machines are designed for finishing and not heavy duty wood removal, they only take off fractions of a millimetre with each pass and therefore there will be no chance of a grab, the work is pushed through at a steady rate with minimal effort.

Andy


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## kinsella (6 Jul 2015)

Andy
Good point, what you see in the video, i only use minimal effect to push through. If i left it go it would have probably stayed in place (not that I'm going to try it). But as you say, i raise the bed until it touches the piece slightly. But even then you can see the amount of material that comes off quickly.


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## mickthetree (6 Jul 2015)

Did you true the drive wheel yet? There still seems to be some vibration. Some bracing across the top may help with that. Well done on this so far. Looks like a great machine. Really inspiring me to get on with mine!


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## kinsella (7 Jul 2015)

Mike 
No, not yet. The mini lathe I have isn't centred. This may be a stupid question but do the jaws on a chuck go in a specific way. 
I must check they were put in right, I assume the numbers on the jaw are referenced on the chuck.
Other option is to use the faceplate on my wood lathe to true the wheel up. 

Taking collection of a startrite this weekend so may get distracted.


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## monkeybiter (8 Jul 2015)

Yes the jaws in a scroll chuck do go back on by the numbers, wind them all the way to the centre to make sure they line up and you haven't skipped a 'thread' with one of them.

If you pop a piece of scrap in the chuck and turn a mandrel with a slow taper you can tap the pulley on that and then skim the outside knowing that it will be true.


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## MusicMan (8 Jul 2015)

re Ian down london way's question, you can get one-way roller bearings quite cheaply. Do a Google search for just that. Also use for anti-kickback replacement for feather boards on routers; there's a commercial product using them. The bearing and axle need tight fits of course, pressing into wood would probably not do.


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## kinsella (8 Jul 2015)

monkeybiter":358u7llc said:


> Yes the jaws in a scroll chuck do go back on by the numbers, wind them all the way to the centre to make sure they line up and you haven't skipped a 'thread' with one of them.
> 
> If you pop a piece of scrap in the chuck and turn a mandrel with a slow taper you can tap the pulley on that and then skim the outside knowing that it will be true.



I think the penny has dropped, thats why its off centre. i took the jaw out and didn't put them back the right way.


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## kinsella (8 Jul 2015)

MusicMan":1zbkojdm said:


> re Ian down london way's question, you can get one-way roller bearings quite cheaply. Do a Google search for just that. Also use for anti-kickback replacement for feather boards on routers; there's a commercial product using them. The bearing and axle need tight fits of course, pressing into wood would probably not do.



interesting idea. I suppose you could mount the bearing into a metal housing and then fix that to the sides. Then wrap the shaft in flexible rubber which would then push it down. The problem with my design is that the bed moves in an arc as you rise and fall so unless the shaft was spring loaded it would not be parallel with the bottom of the drum. 

Still a cheap solution to anti-kick back. Now to put my thinking cap on to see how to overcome the above, but noting i have minimal engineering tools. Mind you i do collect a Clarke milling machine tomorrow


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## kinsella (11 Jul 2015)

I managed to true the pulley wheel today. Thanks to Monkeybiter for reminding me about chuck jaws. The vibration is now almost gone. See the video link. https://youtu.be/VwhpMX-pmNQ. Its almost gone and i don't think you can even see it on the video. Only a few minor bits left to do. 

Mind you, today reminded me of Kenny Everetts Reg Prescott. https://youtu.be/lo7l1QAe_es. As i doubled up the bed thickness, see the photos. The rigidity makes the bed pretty unbendable. I put the gauge on the shaft and played about with the height adjustment. The bed more or less stays level. Its when i turn the knobs it goes out of true, as you tighten, one rises and the other falls. I also waxed the top. It turns out the machine i made has multi functions! 
1. Saw Dust Generator. If anyone is in the market for creating fog like conditions with wood. Then this machine is for you!
2. Wooden Projectile Machine. If you want to launch boards at varying angles at high speed. Then this machine is definitely also for you!

Lessons today.
1. Build a flipping dust hood before I die of dust inhalation.
2. Solve the anti kick back problem. A very unforgiving machine!!!!! My rule of feeding from the side is sound. But I'm bored of picking up shrapnel.


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## kinsella (12 Jul 2015)

Final stages. Dust hood now finished and make a massive difference. Its gone from making a dust cloud to nearly no visible dust. The dust hood needs painting as its MDF and then to consider the kickback problem. Leave it or fix it? that is the question.

Drum sander in use.
https://youtu.be/Du8yP6l2dus


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## mickthetree (13 Jul 2015)

Wow! That looks and sounds like a really robust machine. Well done.

Do you get any unevenness on the surface if you pull the board through unevenly? People suggest that if you leave it sanding in one spot this will occur. I think it must come down to how much you are trying to remove in a pass though.

Would you do anything differently now you have made one?

Cant wait to get working on mine!


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## n0legs (13 Jul 2015)

Just watched the video, that's working really well. Excellent =D> 
It seems to leave a really good surface, well done.


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## kinsella (13 Jul 2015)

mickthetree":1fhgnrnb said:


> Wow! That looks and sounds like a really robust machine. Well done.
> 
> Do you get any unevenness on the surface if you pull the board through unevenly? People suggest that if you leave it sanding in one spot this will occur. I think it must come down to how much you are trying to remove in a pass though.
> 
> ...



Yes, it does come down to technique, if you stop you will get a snipe type effect, but its not as big as a planner, so a finish sand should get rid of it. Its odd the larger the removal and when i say larger i mean you can't put it through the gap. This dictates the speed you can push it through and give you a better finish that a light pass. The consistency of finish is good and i must admit i was a tad worried that i might have to put a power feed on it. But its good enough i think. Some of the boards showed no snipe and i could have gone straight to finish. 

i ran through around 30 oak boards at circa 5.75mm thick using the 240g sand paper and its as smooth a a babies whatit. Perfect.!

What would i do different? I think i'd add a power feed and anti kick back but both of those are rather large engineering problems. As i'm going to use occasionally, that may be a solution too far. Time in use will tell. If you have the engineering knowhow. Then go for it. Otherwise as you can see this took me a few weekends to turn from drawing board to working model. I think i'd still be on the drawing board if i wanted to do power feed and anti kick back. 

PS. Mind you i get a load salvaged kit tomorrow. Motors, milling machine, Startrite saw, drill press. Etc so this may not be over just yet :lol:


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## No skills (13 Jul 2015)

Wow that's quite the project, very well done.


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