# A nice tease by Rob Lee . . . .



## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

You can go here http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbth...er=1857135&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&vc=1 
to view the entire thread. 
:lol:


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## mudman (14 Sep 2005)

There's a word for people like him. :wink:


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## Chris Knight (14 Sep 2005)

Router plane with a fence?


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## Frank D. (14 Sep 2005)

waterhead37":1m71x695 said:


> Router plane with a fence?


In the shower?


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Frank D.":2eg2wdlj said:


> waterhead37":2eg2wdlj said:
> 
> 
> > Router plane with a fence?
> ...


Shouldn't that be Colonel Mustard in the Library with the Lead Piping...? :-k

Router planes are not unknown to have fences, just not fences like that.
And having seen a slightly clearer picture, I can say...



... absolutely nothing. ](*,) 

So thanks for prodding him awake, Dave. :roll: :lol:

Cheers, Alf

Edit: I see elsewhere someone's tracked down the clear picture, so I imagine it's only a matter of moments before Dave shares it with you.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Sep 2005)




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## Rob Lee (14 Sep 2005)

Man - this is like watching a virus spread....

I didn't even get the chance to "leak" it myself....  

Cheers - 

Rob


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## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

Alf":2923xf5q said:


> So thanks for prodding him awake, Dave. :roll: :lol:
> 
> Edit: I see elsewhere someone's tracked down the clear picture, so I imagine it's only a matter of moments before Dave shares it with you.



You're welcome Alf -- I knew it was only a matter of time til Rob would respond to the chanting masses. 

I had an inside line on the "clear picture" but was sworn to secrecy. I had faith that someone else would stumble upon it.


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":116ubskk said:


> I didn't even get the chance to "leak" it myself....


There, there, Rob. You just need to work on your file name choices a bit, that's all. :roll: And you still get the fun of seeing what, if anything, the assembled multitude deduce - and then not telling them if they're right or not. :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

ydb1md":3v49vvhv said:


> I had inside the "clear picture" but was sworn to secrecy. I had faith that someone else would stumble upon it.


Ahh, that accounts for it. :lol:


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Sep 2005)

> I had inside the "clear picture" but was sworn to secrecy. I had faith that someone else would stumble upon it.



Stumble on it? _Stumble_ ... you'd have to be blind as a bat to miss it on WoodNet! I just posted the link.

Rob, that is a very sweet looking plane. Mmm.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Stumble on it? _Stumble_ ... you'd have to be blind as a bat to miss it on WoodNet! I just posted the link.


Yeah, but the guy on WoodNet had to stumble on it _first_. :wink:


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## Waka (14 Sep 2005)

> Rob, that is a very sweet looking plane. Mmm.



I agree, more details please Rob


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## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

Alf":2zjrpebb said:


> Derek Cohen (Perth said:
> 
> 
> > Stumble on it? _Stumble_ ... you'd have to be blind as a bat to miss it on WoodNet! I just posted the link.
> ...



My point exactly. When there are rp1's, rpa's, rpb's etc floating around and rp.jpg is the real thing, stumble is all you need to do to find it.


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## Rob Lee (14 Sep 2005)

Waka":32elk9bw said:


> > Rob, that is a very sweet looking plane. Mmm.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, more details please Rob



Hi - 

Ok - should be on the shelves first week of October...

US price will be $125 (includes all 3 blades, plus sharpening doo-dah (the two 1/2" blades are two-piece, and a holder makes 'em easier to sharpen)).... $135 with the fence. (fence seperately will be $16).

And (not that anyone needs it) - a handle adapter kit is $6.50, so Alf can write another smashing piece on making one's own handles.... (very similar to the spokeshave kit)....

Ta - 

Rob

(oh - and it's patent pending.... but you'll have to wait for that explanation...)


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":2re9slyk said:


> And (not that anyone needs it) - a handle adapter kit is $6.50, so Alf can write another smashing piece on making one's own handles.... (very similar to the spokeshave kit)....


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Although actually that could be quite interesting... :-k Damn you, Mr lee. Now look what you've done. #-o

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

:idea:
Will an introductory offer include the fence? 
[-o<


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## Rob Lee (14 Sep 2005)

ydb1md":3t3fhjbk said:


> :idea:
> Will an introductory offer include the fence?
> [-o<



No intro offer on this one....we think you'll be too distracted with the Bessey sale....

Cheers - 

Rob


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## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":3iasztim said:


> ....we think you'll be too distracted with the Bessey sale....



Pa! Don't sell ol' Bessey! She's been a good horse!


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":12q0izej said:


> No intro offer on this one....we think you'll be too distracted with the Bessey sale....


So it's coming out next month? :-s

Cheers, Alf


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## Rob Lee (14 Sep 2005)

Alf":3451yjsy said:


> Rob Lee":3451yjsy said:
> 
> 
> > No intro offer on this one....we think you'll be too distracted with the Bessey sale....
> ...



Yes to both....! (plane, and clamp sale)

Cheers - 

Rob


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## MikeW (14 Sep 2005)

So it is a wonderful looker, Rob. How's it compare to a vintage one like my MF?

Ok, I *know* there isn't a comparison worthy. It looks very robust and easier to adjust than the vintage ones. Guess I'll have to sell my MF on UK Epay to get the most out of it before the LV goes on sale... :roll:


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## Rob Lee (14 Sep 2005)

MikeW":2ecq0v7v said:


> So it is a wonderful looker, Rob. How's it compare to a vintage one like my MF?
> 
> Ok, I *know* there isn't a comparison worthy. It looks very robust and easier to adjust than the vintage ones. Guess I'll have to sell my MF on UK Epay to get the most out of it before the LV goes on sale... :roll:



Mike - 

I don't know that I'd go as far as selling a MF plane (unless you want to, of course 8) )...

Cheers - 

Rob


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## MikeW (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":1xbid9cy said:


> MikeW":1xbid9cy said:
> 
> 
> > So it is a wonderful looker, Rob. How's it compare to a vintage one like my MF?
> ...


I use the MF router plane quite a bit...but how many router planes does one need? :lol: 

If I commit to plunking down the cash for the new RP, it'll be after the other LAs anyway, which seem to be getting further away from reality.

Course, if I do sell the Sargent combo and the 39s and the MF router plane...


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

MikeW":33ngmcme said:


> but how many router planes does one need? :lol:


Is this some kind of trick question? :-s


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## Frank D. (14 Sep 2005)

So I guess now we can expect a bear market for old 71s (like mine, which is a pain to adjust...). I wonder if the new RP will affect gas prices too?


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## MikeW (14 Sep 2005)

Alf":35s659n3 said:


> MikeW":35s659n3 said:
> 
> 
> > but how many router planes does one need? :lol:
> ...


If you squint your eyes real hard and look at my question just right the answer appears... :wink:


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## ydb1md (14 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":1826ij55 said:


> And (not that anyone needs it) - a handle adapter kit is $6.50, so Alf can write another smashing piece on making one's own handles.... (very similar to the spokeshave kit)....



Since we're talking about handle making kits -- I assume that the hardware for the RP (router plane) handles is the same size and pitch as the hardware for the knobs on the "bevel up family of planes?" If so, could we use said kit to make custom knobs for our planes or would it be worth your time to make a plane knob kit available?

I know that Philly and I have the low knobs from the LA jack installed on our low angle smoothers. I much prefer the low knob and I bet that others do as well.


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## llangatwgnedd (14 Sep 2005)

Very nice indeed. 8) 

Are the cutters compatible with a Stanley or Record router?

Will they be on sale here for the Axminster show ?

Alf when are we going to have a review?


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## Philly (15 Sep 2005)

Good question Dave!
How about it, Rob?
Philly


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## bugbear (15 Sep 2005)

Can the blade "reverse" on the pillar (i.e. be mounted outside the body) for bullnose/stopped work?

It looks very likely, but I'm curious to know for sure.

Great looking design though - it appears to have every feature for existing routers, in a more compact and handy package.

#71's (and similar) are just too big 90% of the time. And since the LV has the obligatory screw hole, larger bases can easily be fitted if you need them.

BugBear


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## Alf (15 Sep 2005)

bugbear":dm2r4jvz said:


> Can the blade "reverse" on the pillar (i.e. be mounted outside the body) for bullnose/stopped work?


The same thought wandered into my head late last night, also that L-V have gone for the simplicity of the #71.5/early #71 style, rather than all the bells and whistles of depth stops and such. 

I can't help but wonder if I need professional help when I go to sleep dreaming of router planes... :-k

Cheers, Alf


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Sep 2005)

> I can't help but wonder if I need professional help when I go to sleep dreaming of router planes...



Alf

Don't all Neanders go to sleep counting planes? :shock: :lol: 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Alf (15 Sep 2005)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Don't all Neanders go to sleep counting planes? :shock: :lol:


Recently I haven't no. I've been counting Kevin Pietersen's sixes... :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## Rob Lee (15 Sep 2005)

bugbear":32tbuaue said:


> Can the blade "reverse" on the pillar (i.e. be mounted outside the body) for bullnose/stopped work?
> 
> (snip)



Hi -

Yes - the collar can rotate 180 degrees, allowing the blade to be clamped on the opposite side of the post. The 1/2" blades can also be rotated by 90 degrees, to "face" either handle...

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Rob Lee (15 Sep 2005)

Hi All - 

Other answers to questions in this thread...

1) Cutters are longer than Stanley/Record, and should fit if the adjusting screw is inverted (flange on top, instead of bottom as installed).

2) Handle adapters - we intend to increase our offering of handle adapter kits/plans/instructions to cover as many knobs/handles as we can...

3) APTC - I'll make sure that one's there for people to try...but I'm not sure we can get stock there in time...will do our best!

4) Alf's review - A good time to restate that we don't send actually send planes to Alf for review....we solicit her opinions on our designs well before production - so we can make changes if we feel they're warranted. Alf doesn't have one of these, as we were quite comfortable going ahead with the design we had. We are willing to send out a plane for review - but it will be the first time we've ever done so with Alf... 

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Sep 2005)

My apologies for interrupting Rob, but Alf wrote:


> Recently I haven't no. I've been counting Kevin Pietersen's sixes...


 in response to


> Don't all Neanders go to sleep counting planes?



and you have to realize that this is a Low Blow... a Very Low Blow, coming after the recent loss of The Ashes by Australia to England! 

Since when is Kevin Pietersen even English (he is South African), and he doesn't even know what a #6 is - he couldn't tell it from a chiselplane. Especially a LV chisel plane! ... there back on topic. :lol: 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Alf (15 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":3e8ukpuy said:


> 4) Alf's review - A good time to restate that we don't send actually send planes to Alf for review....we solicit her opinions on our designs well before production - so we can make changes if we feel they're warranted. Alf doesn't have one of these, as we were quite comfortable going ahead with the design we had.


Translation: It'd have probably only resulted in another whinge about handles, so we didn't ask. :wink:



Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> My apologies for interrupting Rob, but Alf wrote:
> 
> 
> > Recently I haven't no. I've been counting Kevin Pietersen's sixes...
> ...


The recent loss of The Ashes by Both the Men's _and_ Women's teams, I might add.  And on a woodworking note <gasp>, does anyone know who made the Women's Ashes Trophy? It's a wooden cricket ball, and while I can tell you all about the bat that was burnt to become the ashes inside and even the wok it was burnt in, I can't find a thing about the trophy itself. Rumour has it the ball is elm, but other than that...



Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Since when is Kevin Pietersen even English (he is South African)


Funny, I don't remember anyone mentioning that when he was dropping catches left, right and centre... :wink: Heck, England won _despite_ that, and "Jones the Drop" behind the stumps. And where did Geraint Jones learn his cricket? Australia... :roll: :lol:

Wooden connection? Erm... the bats, stumps, bails, Ricky Ponting's expression...

Cheers, Alf

Who could gloat about this for at least 18 months, and probably will. :wink: Sorry, Derek.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Sep 2005)

> Who could gloat about this for at least 18 months, and probably will. Sorry, Derek.



Nah, I was just teasing you.  England were clearly the better team throughout the series (although having two South Africans in the team plus biased umpires didn't hurt - OK, I'm kidding again :lol: )

Sorry again Rob - back to the real thing..

Regards from an Ashless Perth

Derek


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## Mittlefehldt (16 Sep 2005)

I asked this question elsewhere and Rob wouldn't bite, but I was wondering since I bought my made in England router plane from my local Lee Valley Store, if they had a trade in plan. :roll: 

Actually I have never actively sought out a plough plane as I have when needed, mainly for cutting the slots for drawer bottoms, used the router plane instead. 

Speaking of which is there a plough plane in the future as well, interested people want to know. As to cricket I just don't get it, but I like baseball.


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## Rob Lee (16 Sep 2005)

Hi - 



Mittlefehldt":2stcn137 said:


> (snip) ...but I was wondering since I bought my made in England router plane from my local Lee Valley Store, if they had a trade in plan. :roll:



Yup - we'll trade cash for planes.... :lol: :lol: !



Mittlefehldt":2stcn137 said:


> (snip)Speaking of which is there a plough plane in the future as well, interested people want to know....



Hard to say exactly which one is next - there are a few choices. A plough plane is on the list...

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Alf (16 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":a8y5hfd0 said:


> Hard to say exactly which one is next - there are a few choices. A plough plane is on the list...


Now there's a list I'd like to see...

Cheers, Alf


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## Rob Lee (16 Sep 2005)

Alf":16ztu15r said:


> Rob Lee":16ztu15r said:
> 
> 
> > Hard to say exactly which one is next - there are a few choices. A plough plane is on the list...
> ...



Think of a bunch of fridge magnets, where everyone who walks by the fridge changes the order..... :lol: :lol: 

R&D meeting in 93 minutes... so the order will likely change again...

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Neil (16 Sep 2005)

I hope a compass plane is on it!

Cheers,
Neil


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## Alf (16 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":2jp5joqs said:


> Alf":2jp5joqs said:
> 
> 
> > Rob Lee":2jp5joqs said:
> ...


Okay, so it's a _fridge_ I'd like to see then... and possibly rearrange... :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## Rob Lee (16 Sep 2005)

Neil":zi1jqt79 said:


> I hope a compass plane is on it!
> 
> Cheers,
> Neil



That's the list I see when I have nightmares..... :lol:


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## Neil (16 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":1j75bupj said:


> That's the list I see when I have nightmares..... :lol:


Damn! I'll just have to buy the Veritas shaves instead :wink: 

Cheers,
Neil


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## ydb1md (16 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":e8qoksqq said:


> That's the list I see when I have nightmares..... :lol:



I'm sure there were nightmares at first. Trying to gauge the market's need and ability to support two manufacturers with extensive lines of quality hand tools might have been a gamble at first. 

But I'd bet money that as the selection of Veritas woodworking tools has grown, the base of loyal, repeat buyers has grown markedly.

Once you buy a tool that you like from a manufacturer, it's nice to be able to buy from them again when you have a need for another tool. Who doesn't want to assemble a "family" of planes from their favorite manufacturer?

The only hard choice for the woodworker now is choosing which company's family of planes you want to "adopt." Most of us don't have the funds to have both.


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## bugbear (16 Sep 2005)

How often do people suggest #51/#52 a-likes?!

Oh, by the way, I know what you mean about priorities.

At one office I worked in we had the following priority levels:

* urgent
* vital
* first
* A
* 1
* top

That could be used as appropriate... 

BugBear


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## Alf (20 Sep 2005)

Rob let drop a fragment of the list elsewhere, fwiw.



Rob 'Call me Mr Tease' Lee on Wood Central":2v8szb8h said:


> Our rabbet solutions will have skewed blades, as well as the requisite nickers and fences....
> 
> An' that's all you're getting out of me on that topic, 'till we're a bit closer...


Possibly not a particularly surprising piece of information, but don't say you didn't know.

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (20 Sep 2005)

Alf":3jndvpo2 said:


> Rob 'Call me Mr Tease' Lee on Wood Central":3jndvpo2 said:
> 
> 
> > Our rabbet *solutions* will have skewed blades, as well as the requisite nickers and fences....
> > An' that's all you're getting out of me on that topic, 'till we're a bit closer...



Solutions meaning left & right, big & little??? :-k


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## Alf (20 Sep 2005)

ydb1md":1iguthov said:


> Solutions meaning left & right, big & little??? :-k


Ah, now that _is_ the question. 

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (20 Sep 2005)

Alf":15rt2ct4 said:


> ydb1md":15rt2ct4 said:
> 
> 
> > Solutions meaning left & right, big & little??? :-k
> ...



Do you think that Rob would take a picture of his refrigerator magnets for us?


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## Rob Lee (20 Sep 2005)

ydb1md":3qygnfjw said:


> Do you think that Rob would take a picture of his refrigerator magnets for us?



Here you go....

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/magnets.jpg

:lol: :lol: 

Hot off the lathe...


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## ydb1md (20 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":3097dg0m said:


> ydb1md":3097dg0m said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think that Rob would take a picture of his refrigerator magnets for us?
> ...



That Rob, he's a very funny guy! :lol: 

](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

I wonder if Terry would lemme look over his shoulder? :roll: :-k


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## Alf (20 Sep 2005)

Rob Lee":c7b7kj02 said:


> ydb1md":c7b7kj02 said:
> 
> 
> > Do you think that Rob would take a picture of his refrigerator magnets for us?
> ...


The only thing that picture says to me is jigsaw!

Cheers, Alf


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## Rural Platypus (22 Sep 2005)

Oh no. You want this http://www.holteyplanes.com/adam1.htm as a jigsaw puzzle.

Unless anyone has a better idea of course...

RP


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## Alf (23 Sep 2005)

To hear is to obey*.  (3.27 was my time btw)

Cheers, Alf

*Obviously if Mr Holtey is a reader and objects to it being made into a jigsaw I'll remove it at once.


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## MikeW (23 Sep 2005)

Alf":1rjhd9i4 said:


> To hear is to obey*.  (3.27 was my time btw)
> Cheers, Alf
> *Obviously if Mr Holtey is a reader and objects to it being made into a jigsaw I'll remove it at once.



Oh, I would think he would appreciate his planes being sawn to bits and reassembled...

btw, it takes the site 3.25 to solve it itself...my time was a bit slower.


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## Taffy Turner (23 Sep 2005)

Thanks for the link to the site Alf. It has now been added to my favourites. Good for an idle ten minutes when I am drinking my coffee!

Regards

Gary


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## cambournepete (23 Sep 2005)

Alf":2bwel3wq said:


> (3.27 was my time btw)


7:30 - are you sure you took it apart first Alf - I hadn't completed the edges by then...  :wink: 

Pete
(edited due to inept typing :roll


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## Alf (30 Sep 2005)

All the gory details about the router plane are now on L-V's site, fwiw.

Cheers, Alf


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## mudman (30 Sep 2005)

I must be strong. =P~ 
I must be strong.=P~ 
I must be strong.=P~ 

After all I've already got three.   

Oh hang on, and a littl'un makes four. :roll: 

No, I don't have a problem, don't listen to the missus, she just doesn't understand. :?


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## Mittlefehldt (30 Sep 2005)

$155. dollars Canadian for the damn thing, with a fence, well I already have a Stanley 71, so I will resist, that is until I go to the store next and see it in person which may cause some issues.

I am saving up right now to buy a medium shoulder plane so will probably buy it next anyway, I mean who needs two router planes, right, no one does do they, well do they? :roll:


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## ydb1md (30 Sep 2005)

Alf":3bbccklg said:


> All the gory details about the router plane are now on L-V's site, fwiw.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



You didn't even *mention* the Bessey sale. That's the one that's gonna have me digging in my pockets. I *love* those clamps but they're just so darned expensive. Now I'm trying to figure out how many I *need *versus how many I *want*. ](*,) :-k


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## Chris Knight (30 Sep 2005)

ydb1md":145bysrk said:


> Now I'm trying to figure out how many I *need *versus how many I *want*. ](*,) :-k



Clamps are the exception that proves the rule - you usually want fewer than you need :?


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## ydb1md (30 Sep 2005)

waterhead37":h6nqzdlt said:


> ydb1md":h6nqzdlt said:
> 
> 
> > Now I'm trying to figure out how many I *need *versus how many I *want*. ](*,) :-k
> ...



I think I'll be buying at least one of each set -- though I could easily rationalize two of each.


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## Alf (7 Oct 2005)

Another fragment of what's decorating that 'fridge door in Canada cropped up in WoodNet, fwiw:



> Hi Rob -
> Do you have any plans for a Veritas version of the #98 and #99 side rabbet planes? Or the #79? If so could you give us a hint about timing?
> 
> Hi -
> ...


Notice he doesn't mention which year... :lol:

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":1zdmv48x said:


> Notice he doesn't mention which year... :lol:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Rob's a busy boy. He didn't even touch my question about a chamfer shave.  :roll: 

I am curious about which planes will be coming out next (and when).

Someone on another board asked about LV producing a dovetail or tenon backsaw but I don't see them approaching something like that where the market is already saturated with alternatives.


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## Rob Lee (7 Oct 2005)

ydb1md":q3m3bnj1 said:


> Alf":q3m3bnj1 said:
> 
> 
> > Notice he doesn't mention which year... :lol:
> ...



Hi - 

When you're buying a high end saw - all you're pretty much buying is sharpening and set .... we'll end up doing something there - but it may not be necessarily Veritas. I certainly agree the market for $100+ saws is saturated....

We do work on other things besides planes too.... and we also have gardening and hardware lines to flesh out...

Cheers - 

Rob


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## ydb1md (7 Oct 2005)

Rob Lee":1hnmty74 said:


> Hi -
> 
> We do work on other things besides planes too.... and we also have gardening and hardware lines to flesh out...
> 
> Rob



Hey Rob!

Gardening tools? Hardware? :roll: 

Hardware is cool. 

And I guess I can see where the gardeners might feel slighted if they didn't get some new toys too.  

Thanks for all the new toys! We woodworkers have it good now. 8)


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## Alf (7 Oct 2005)

Rob Lee":2i3morai said:


> When you're buying a high end saw - all you're pretty much buying is sharpening and set


Couldn't agree more.

So about saw sets... 

Cheers, Alf


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## Rob Lee (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":wdd4k3li said:


> Rob Lee":wdd4k3li said:
> 
> 
> > When you're buying a high end saw - all you're pretty much buying is sharpening and set
> ...



Set of 3? Set of 4? :lol: :lol:


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## Alf (7 Oct 2005)

Sigh. Saw _wrests_ then. :roll: Although I suppose there isn't sufficient demand; at least not until you try to find a Stanley 42x for sale...  

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":3v9pkiel said:


> Rob Lee":3v9pkiel said:
> 
> 
> > When you're buying a high end saw - all you're pretty much buying is sharpening and set
> ...


While I don't totally agree with either of y'all--don't decent handles and reasonable quality steel account for anything--there are decent saw sets available.

4 to 12 point

13 to 27 point

All saw steel isn't the same. Take a look at the steel in many lesser cost saws. They go dull quickly, teeth even bend or round on their leading edge. Good steel isn't very costly, but it still isn't used in cheap saws. Move up to a moderate cost saw, and the steel is better, but still doesn't hold a candle up to a pre-1950s saw.

And handles. I figure much of a saw's cost is in the handle. Even with CNC routers, there is handwork to do in order to ship a decent handle.

The rest is set and sharpening.

Ok, I'm gonna breathe and get off the soapbox...

Mike


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## ydb1md (7 Oct 2005)

MikeW":38i47nk4 said:


> All saw steel isn't the same. Take a look at the steel in many lesser cost saws. They go dull quickly, teeth even bend or round on their leading edge. Good steel isn't very costly, but it still isn't used in cheap saws. Move up to a moderate cost saw, and the steel is better, but still doesn't hold a candle up to a pre-1950s saw.
> 
> And handles. I figure much of a saw's cost is in the handle. Even with CNC routers, there is handwork to do in order to ship a decent handle.
> 
> ...



Hi Mike,

I agree with you that saws are plentiful but _good_ saws are harder to find. But, from a manufacturers perspective, debating whether or not to get in the game, it's hard to justify introducing a new saw to the market when you already have Adria, LN and a bunch of smaller, quality saw makers. Pax is trying to get back in the game and I imagine that other makers will try to improve their quality to get back in the game. (I wish that Crown would improve their quality across the board. Their tools are approaching dismal.)

It _would_ be cool if someone would offer a handle kit so you could take the old cruddy handle off your favorite old saw and slap on a new quality handle. Leave the handle undrilled so the purchaser could drill holes to match his blade.


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## Alf (7 Oct 2005)

MikeW":2b0kle7t said:


> ...there are decent saw sets available.
> 
> 4 to 12 point
> 
> 13 to 27 point


I regret to say wrist killers, the pair of them. 

If people _aren't_ spending all that dosh on the sharpening and set, why aren't they buying secondhand saws with beautifully curvaceous handles for a fiver and sharpening them themselves? :-s

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":1eiqbg2b said:


> If people _aren't_ spending all that dosh on the sharpening and set, why aren't they buying secondhand saws with beautifully curvaceous handles for a fiver and sharpening them themselves? :-s
> 
> Cheers, Alf



I'm about to take the dive and pick up an old saw and sharpen it myself. The thought of sharpening myself (and botching it) is a little intimidating, but I'll get over it.


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## MikeW (7 Oct 2005)

Dave,

Plenty of good saws are available at a cost. It's inexpensive good saws that one cannot find. Unless one will bother geting used saws.

I am probably making more on reconditioning used saws, resharpening and new handles than furniture at the moment. Well, that and simply sharpening.

As for the handle thing, my wife and I were just talking last night about making repro handles, including the dreaded closed tops. We were thinking about having them cut to rough shape, edges eased and the blade slots cut and leave final shaping to the customer. For Disstons they can even be predrilled. 

I have a bunch of Beech and Apple for just this purpose.

I'm also making a series of saws. I started out mentioning to someone I was making one for myself and now have 8 orders for them.

We'll see.

Mike

edited...


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## MikeW (7 Oct 2005)

Alf":d2ham0nr said:


> MikeW":d2ham0nr said:
> 
> 
> > ...there are decent saw sets available.
> ...


Oh they're not bad to use. Not as nice as the 42X, which I also have, but very functional.

Why more people don't buy used saws is probably why many don't buy used tools in the main: perception and effort I suppose.

And as for sharpening, I think it is something that intimidates people. In general, a handsaw is easy, but even at that there are subtle things one can do to make a handsaw cut easier and faster that simply running a file across it won't accomplish.

When you get to the smaller saws with more teeth, it does require a tad bit of patience to do a good job. Especially with setting. One can stone the set out of an over set saw, but it does begin to weaken the teeth. Much better to go easy on the set to begin with.

Mike


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## engineer one (8 Oct 2005)

alf i think one of the reasons people don't sharpen saws any more is because it is difficult to get the kit these days.
i have a couple of eclipse saw sets bought from discount stores (or are they called overstock outlets now?) but finding the old files is much more difficult.although it was not the best for the last gnats sharpening, the old eclipse item which had a sliding rail at least was a good initial guide., but no one seems to stock them any more are they still made???

paul :-s


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## MikeW (8 Oct 2005)

engineer one":1xdmj47t said:


> ...but finding the old files is much more difficult.although it was not the best for the last gnats sharpening, the old eclipse item which had a sliding rail at least was a good initial guide., but no one seems to stock them any more are they still made???
> paul :-s


Hi Paul,

Nicholson still makes the files and they are available from LV and other sources--like the corner hardware store down the street from me <g>.

Also at the link to the saw sets (the 4-12 ppi is also available from LV) above they have a guided handsaw sharpener. Double rail. Seems like it was $38ish US.

A sharp handsaw is a wonderful thing  

Mike


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## Frank D. (8 Oct 2005)

Joel at toolsforworkingwood.com has finer saw sets. I'm sure they can be found from a UK source.


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

Paul, Axminster has them.

Don't misunderstand me, gents; I have functional saw sets. But then I have functional hand planes too, but this doesn't stop me wanting improved versions. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## engineer one (8 Oct 2005)

why is it alf you want all things a working plane and saw as well as time to work on the from.
as usual the yanks have more availability than us.
also if you are new do you necessarily know about axminster.?
paul


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

engineer one":2wsj1pq4 said:


> why is it alf you want all things


Sorry, it's a female thing.  :lol:



engineer one":2wsj1pq4 said:


> also if you are new do you necessarily know about axminster.?


I think, if you don't have your head in a bucket, then yes, you do. Ending up with an Axminster catalogue is kinda as inevitable for a UK-based newbie as asking about dado heads and "what's the best way to sharpen?" :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (8 Oct 2005)

Alf":ipboejf7 said:


> engineer one":ipboejf7 said:
> 
> 
> > why is it alf you want all things
> ...


No it's not...The female part is that you actually get 'em :wink: 

Mike


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## Alf (8 Oct 2005)

I wish :roll:


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## mahking51 (8 Oct 2005)

Hi Guys
Just jumping in here, don't know if this is of any use but at the Boot sale I go to there are ALWAYS several saw sets, usually Eclipse Model 77 in bronze or steel. They go for between 50p and £2. If anyone wants one I'm happy to get it for them and send it on.
Regards
martin


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