# Tormek SVD-185 - HELP!! - Now sorted



## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

Hi, I've just recieved a Tormek SVD-185 gouge jig and am having problems using it. I think it's just me being stupid, but I just can't work out a solution.

Just for information, I'm using a Tormek 1200 (the smaller one), with a home made toolrest bracket, but this shouldn't contribute to my problem - or does it????

When I hone a gouge this way, there's no problem







BUT, when I try and hone the other wing, the gouge just runs off the stone.






As far as I can work out, the jig hits against the "leg" of the toolrest and will not move far enough to the left for the gouge to stay on the stone.

Any help would be most appreciated, as it's quite an expensive jig, to just sharpen _one_ wing of my bowl gouges.

Cheers

Aled[/b]


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## wizer (27 Oct 2009)

how far is the tool projecting out of the jig?


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

wizer":12k4v81a said:


> how far is the tool projecting out of the jig?



The tool's projection is set to 75mm as per the "Ellsworth" setting, on the Turning tool setter (TTS-100)

Cheers

Aled


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## wizer (27 Oct 2009)

I have the sorby jig which is similar-ish. I always use 2 inch projection but if the book is saying that then it's not the problem. In which case I'm out. A Tormek owner will be along soon.


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## Walter Hall (27 Oct 2009)

The home made mounting is in the wrong position. The toolrest mounting should be further over to the left as in this photo from AndyG's review.

Suggest you replace it with the proper part or make new one in the right position.


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## Paul.J (27 Oct 2009)

I sharpen my bowl gouges as in the clipHere
As i remember the Ellesworth grind you have to have different settings that aren't on the jig,No6 i think,which you have to put on the jig yourself,and have the bar further away from the stone,i think :?


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## SVB (27 Oct 2009)

Aled,

If you undo the base and insert the angled head from the other end you will find the sleeve will move towards the support with the 'short' length near the support not the long end and therefore give you enough room.

BRgds

Simon


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

Brittleheart":euw9gq4c said:


> The home made mounting is in the wrong position. The toolrest mounting should be further over to the left as in this photo from AndyG's review.
> 
> Suggest you replace it with the proper part or make new one in the right position.



Thanks for that Brittleheart, but unfortunately, your suggestion will only gain me 15-16mm back towards the stone, whereas I really need to move the tool at least 20mm, and in fact about 25mm for the gouge to be comfortably on the stone.

I'll move my toolrest mounting piece though, as it is obviously in the wrong position. I just assumed that it should line up with the existing mounting holes in the Tormek. Yes, assumption really is the mother of all cock ups!!

Cheers

Aled


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

SVB":1sd8zh5v said:


> Aled,
> 
> If you undo the base and insert the angled head from the other end you will find the sleeve will move towards the support with the 'short' length near the support not the long end and therefore give you enough room.
> 
> ...



Simon

I'm not entirely clear about what you're suggesting. I've tried re-configuring the jig so that the shorter end of the jig points towards the tormek, but as the jig is far from being symmetrical, it would give me a *totally* different grind.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

Cheers

Aled


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## CHJ (27 Oct 2009)

Aled, I'm not sure you are ever going to get the left displacement you require on the smaller machine with standard Tormek support bar dimensions. I think you will have to make yourself a different clamp base with an alternate third offset hole and support bar to suit.

Even on the bigger machines you get a similar restriction when trying to use the honing wheels because the standard bar prevents the gouge fitting from moving over sufficiently, in fact to a far greater extent than you are experiencing.


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

Ok. I've moved the mounting bracket as far to the left as possible and just about managed to grind an ellsworth grind, but the left hand wing was being ground right on the edge of the stone, which I didn't find that acceptable.

It seems that the jig/system is not designed for such a pronounced grind. In fact the instructions tell you to set the pivot angle to position 6, whereas the markings on the jig only go to *5*. In the end I compromised a little, set the pivot to 5, and re-ground my gouge to that setting, which still gave me a nicely swept back grind. 

It's a pity that the instructions don't warn users of the smaller Tormek that the Ellsworth grind is just outside it's capabilities, it would have saved me quite a lot of hasle this evening.

Chas, I tried the leather honing wheel, and it's a complete non starter!!! I may however look into the possibility of re-drilling my mounting bracket, and fabricating a new support arm as you suggest. That'll be my lunchtime project for next week when I'm back in school. 

Although I've had a few teething problems, I'm quite sure that once these are sorted, the Tormek will be a nice solution to sharpening my turning tools,it gives so much control compared to using a dry grinder. Also, my skew chisels have never been so sharp :shock: :shock: I can't wait to use them in anger.

I'll keep you posted.

Cheers

Aled


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## YewTube (27 Oct 2009)

Aled

I have the same Tormek and I have compared your setup to mine. Your home made fixing bracket is the problem. On mine the left hand bar that goes in the bracket is about 6mm from the honing wheel. On yours it looks like 25mm. You can see the relative position of the bar holes and fixing screws on the Tormek one at Axminster p/n 910095.

Bill


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

YewTube":2l477s4t said:


> Aled
> 
> I have the same Tormek and I have compared your setup to mine. Your home made fixing bracket is the problem. On mine the left hand bar that goes in the bracket is about 6mm from the honing wheel. On yours it looks like 25mm. You can see the relative position of the bar holes and fixing screws on this link
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Torm ... -23515.htm
> ...



Bill, firstly welcome to the forum! Your links wil start working once you have 4 or 5 posts under your belt.

Thanks for going to the trouble of checking your Tormek setup. I've now re-positioned my mounting bracket so that the bar is 4mm from the leather honing wheel, and as I mentioned above, that has sorted most of my problems. 

I'm still going to have a crack at sorting the honing issue, though. I may never actually need/want to hone my turning gouges, but the premier sysytem on the market *should* be able to do so!! It's such a pity that the Tormek falls just shy of doing what it should do, at this price point I'd expect it to do everything *and* make me a cup of tea.

Cheers

Aled


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## CHJ (27 Oct 2009)

Aled Dafis":37tmt624 said:


> Chas, I tried the leather honing wheel, and it's a complete non starter!!! I may however look into the possibility of re-drilling my mounting bracket, and fabricating a new support arm as you suggest. That'll be my lunchtime project for next week when I'm back in school.



Aled, I should not get too fixated on using the leather honing, although it will polish the ground surface for you, unless you are very careful the resilience of the wide leather wheel tends to flow around the cutting edge of gouges rounding it. The edge is still extremely sharp but because of the rounding the finite cutting edge is raised above the surface when the bulk of the bevel is rubbing. It's OK for skews but next to useless in my experience for scrapers as it rounds the edge and does the opposite to raising a burr as desired.. The narrow leather discs are ideal for polishing the flutes, but do this before sharpening the bevel to avoid any edge rounding.

Personally if I desire to hone my tools I do it on an MDF wheel which does not flex and with the appropriate abrasive (I use Ashley Isles Green.) which for me is much quicker than the leather. 













The above are just my personal judgements on the system and there are many others with differing views, I suggest you trial and see what works for you but don't get fixated to the point that you do not believe your own findings or experience.


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2009)

Chas

Honing really made a difference with the skews, but surely that benefit would only last seconds with a bowl gouge.

I'll have a go and see where it takes me.

I like the idea of profiled MDF wheels though. Do you have a spare lathe that you mount them in, or do you have to remove your workpiece to use them?

Cheers

Aled


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## wizer (27 Oct 2009)

If you have a hollow headstock then I guess you could mount the honing wheels on the other side, somehow. Having them spinning the other way would probably be a benefit.


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## CHJ (27 Oct 2009)

Aled Dafis":3qjo0hgx said:


> I like the idea of profiled MDF wheels though. Do you have a spare lathe that you mount them in, or do you have to remove your workpiece to use them?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Aled



Yes I do have a metal Lathe that I can use if needed whilst turning, however I find that if I give my tools a birthday now and then or just before embarking on a specific task then the honed areas hold up well.
My skews once ground and honed get touched up on a cheap diamond coated steel plate, much as you would a Plane iron.

I also use a diamond 'credit card' to touch up the odd gouge as I go on final cuts, care is needed not to round the edge but a little practice soon develops a feel for what is needed.


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## paulm (28 Oct 2009)

SVB":p6vm1i0y said:


> Aled,
> 
> If you undo the base and insert the angled head from the other end you will find the sleeve will move towards the support with the 'short' length near the support not the long end and therefore give you enough room.
> 
> ...



Wot' Simon said !

The jig has a sleeve that runs on the toolrest bar. That sleeve protrudes much more on one side of the jig than the other. In the photo's the long part of the sleeve gets in the way of the toolrest support bar on the left, preventing the jig from sliding further to the left.

If you slide the jig off the toolrest, rotate the sleeve so that the longer sleeve side is on the right of the jig, and then remount the jig on the toolrest, it should allow the jig to move another half to an inch further to the left.

Think that should solve the problem.

Cheers, Paul


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## CHJ (28 Oct 2009)

*Paul*, I agree it does allow a greater range of swing possibilities but the fact remains that having done that the bevel configuration becomes a "personal special" and is outside the Tormek "Touch and Turn" setting tool range and enforces the making of personal spacing pieces, something that Tormek refer to themselves if you want to move away from their 3-4 recommended profiles.

Not all that convenient if you are using a set of gouges on a particular project that need the extensive resetting of the jigs.

As with all grinding jigs-systems it's a case of whether you want to comply with the designers view of what is correct or desirable or do you want to work to you own preferences.

George (Cornucopia) gets on fine with his Tormek but he works a great deal freehand or with a common jig setting for the bulk of his gouges.

Most of us cannot afford to buy extra Tormek jigs and have them setup and locked with PK screws for individual tools as referred to in the Tormek Video etc. for "Touch and Turn" but probably more than worth the expense if you are a production turner.


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## Martin Brown (28 Oct 2009)

Hi I am one of the team at BriMarc responsible for Tormek.

Frankly there is a lot of questions here and I would like to respond to them all in the next 24 hours. In particular some questions on the Ellsworth I would like answer fully, and I need to have a try with the T3/1200.

I am sure we can learn something too. Watch this space.

Martin from BriMarc


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## Aled Dafis (28 Oct 2009)

Martin

Thanks for taking the time to address this issue. 

It always impresses me how a few people from the big name companies find the time to reply to forum posts and try to adress customers issues, this really is customer care of the highest order. Thanks.

Frankly my biggest issue was that *I'd* positioned the mounting bracket in the wrong position, so that is nothing to do with the tormek sysytem. The setup I have at the moment allows me to grind a nicely swept back profile accurately and repeatably, which is just about what anybody would want from a grinding jig. Honing the edge would just be the icing on the cake.

I think that Chas' suggestion of adding a third hole in the mounting bracket and using a different support bar will address all the issues. What I plan to do is to drill another hole centrally between the existing holes, and make a mounting bar that will fit both ways using the three holes and hopefully giving the required clearances for both grinding and honing. I'll give this modification a go next week and report back.

Cheers

Aled


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## Martin Brown (29 Oct 2009)

Sorry to be a little tardy, sadly the key Tormek people are away. Torgny is ill with a fever, and is keen to reply once he has tried to recreate the issue. Other colleagues are at a launch in the US. 

I am happy to reply to some comments however it would be better to have the very best reply.

Martin


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## Martin Brown (31 Oct 2009)

Hi below is the reply from Torgny at Tormek. I will add the TTS-100 chart as an image in due course.

Martin

He says....

The customer is right that when using the smaller model T-3 (previous named 1200) there are some limitations when using the SVD-185 Gouge Jig with the high jig setting JS6. The left wing will reach outside the stone.

There are cures to this problem.

One is to operate with the Universal Support in the vertical position. The Jig SVD-185 and the Turning Tool Setter TS-100 Setter works as well in this position, but the sharpening work is not as convenient as working in the vertical position.

Another alternative: If you prefer to work in the horizontal position you could consider to change the profile of the gouge a bit to the shape, which is obtained with the Jig Setting JS4 and protrusion 65 mm. With this setting you get almost an "Ellsworth grind".

The TTS-100 selection chart from our Hand Book, shows the different shapes as a result of various Jig settings (JS) and protrusions (P). Here you can compare the shapes and edge angles obtained with the five "recipes", which are on the TTS-100 Setter.

Here is a link to the chart: http://img177.imageshack.us/i/instructiontnt300p12.pdf/[/url]


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## Aled Dafis (6 Nov 2009)

Martin

Thanks for taking the time to try and sort this issue. 

As I mentioned earlier, I was quite happy with the grind I achieved by just changing the jig setting to "5", but it would have been nice to have been warned that there was an issue with using the "Ellsworth" setting on this particular machine.

As it happens I've managed to modify my home made jig so that all settings can be ground *and honed* on my smaller Tormek. 

The modification is shown below. I drilled an extra hole in between the two existing holes (90mm centres), and welded up a new toolrest with the new, reduced hole centres (45mm centres). For grinding, the toolrest is used in the left pair of holes.







This setup now allows the jig to move 45mm further to the left, and therefore the left hand wing can be ground comfortably on the stone as opposed to being at the extreme corner.






I made the toolrest a little longer than the standard one to ensure that the jig didn't fall off the end when grinding the right hand wing of the tool. As it turned out, I needn't have bothered as it would have been long enough as per the standard toolrest.






Here's a pic of the grind I achieved using the "Ellsworth" settings as per the TTS-100 chart supplied with the jig (JS 6, Protrusion 75mm, Hole A).






The real bonus of this new, improved system is that I can now also use the leather honing wheel to hone my turning tools - a problem that even the users of the larger Tormek come across. 

The toolrest now needs to be re-positioned to the right pair of holes, and hey presto. 

Note - If you try and replicate this jig at home, please ensure that your hole centres are drilled accurately, else the toolrest will not fit in both sets of holes, thankfully mine fitted perfectly first time, phew!!











Cheers

Aled

P.S.

Martin, genius doesn't come cheap, I expect my royalty cheque/complimentary Tormek T7 in the post first thing Monday :wink: :wink: :roll:


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## Paul.J (6 Nov 2009)

That looks really good Aled.
Problem solved looking at it now


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## Blister (6 Nov 2009)

Just seen this thread 

Is it a silly thing to say 

But 

It 

Looks like you had the sliding bar bracket on the wrong way round :? 

If you had it with the tube to the right of the bar it would ? have gone over further ?


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## Aled Dafis (6 Nov 2009)

Blister":2evlhyuz said:


> Just seen this thread
> 
> Is it a silly thing to say
> 
> ...



I tried that, and turning the bracket around *dramatically* changes the grinding geometry. I agree however that it looks like there's a simple answer, but unfortunately there isn't, even Torgny (Tormek's inventor) admits that there's an issue with using the SVB-185, so it can't just be me being stupid.

Cheers

Aled


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