# Finish for childrens puzzles & toys



## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Hi all 

I am wondering what is the best finish to apply to the likes of simple puzzles and toys for children 

I am doing a show soon and want to make sure I am not using a finish that isn't child friendly


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## sunnybob (15 Oct 2017)

https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/q ... -by-a-youn


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Oct 2017)

Osmo PolyX is food safe, quick and easy to use.


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## marcros (15 Oct 2017)

it depends a bit on what you are producing. do you want a natural wood finish or a paint?


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Thanks for that (I think ;-) 

I confess I found that as clear as mud :-( 

I was particularly intrigued as to why a parent would let their child chew a nativity ;-) 

Then I realised they were talking about a cot  





sunnybob":1su5jv20 said:


> https://woodworking.stackexchange.com/questions/132/what-are-some-safe-finishes-for-indoor-projects-likely-to-be-chewed-on-by-a-youn


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Thanks for that, I did look at this a little while back for something else

Its just so expensive 



phil.p":2nbtxgks said:


> Osmo PolyX is food safe, quick and easy to use.


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Natural wood in the main 

What if I just left them as plain wood ?

Are there are drawbacks to that 




marcros":173vydqe said:


> it depends a bit on what you are producing. do you want a natural wood finish or a paint?


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## marcros (15 Oct 2017)

the chestnut finishes webpage lists the following Chestnut products as toy safe

Q. Are the Chestnut Products’ Spirit Stains safe for use on toys?

A. We have not had the Spirit Stains toy-tested as we have been advised that provided they are completely enclosed within a toy-tested finish it is not necessary for them to comply with these regulations. The following products from our range have been independently tested and passed the relevant part of the EN-71 Regulations:

Acrylic Lacquer
Acrylic Sanding Sealer (both types)
Cellulose Sanding Sealer (both types)
Melamine Lacquer (both types)
Finishing Oil
WoodWax 22 Clear
Microcrystalline Wax
Shellac Sanding Sealer
Hard Wax Oil
Acrylic Gloss Lacquer
Acrylic Satin Lacquer

you could leave them unfinished but they would look shabby quite quickly with grubby sticky hands touching them.


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Many thanks for that, looks like lacquer might be the easiest 

Fogive my ignorance but what do they mean by "finishing oil" ?





marcros":1hpeznih said:


> the chestnut finishes webpage lists the following Chestnut products as toy safe
> 
> Q. Are the Chestnut Products’ Spirit Stains safe for use on toys?
> 
> ...


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Oct 2017)

The product is called "Finishing Oil". It's a bit like a lighter grade of Danish Oil.


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## CHJ (15 Oct 2017)

whatknot":kp8y7wx1 said:


> .....Fogive my ignorance but what do they mean by "finishing oil" ?



It is my understanding that the Chestnut Finishing Oil is a blend akin to the oft referred to 'Danish oil', I believe when first marketed by Chestnuts the nomenclature 'Danish Oil' was not used in deference to the original developer of such a blend.

Danish oil blends can vary considerably between suppliers, I suspect not all necessarily having passed the appropriate clearance test for Child Safe.


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Thank you 

Thats odd I have never come across a tin named just finishing oil 

I just thought it was a generic name for several different ones 

I should have googled it and found just as you say, such as Liberon Finishing Oil 

Many thanks 



phil.p":2q9xm1bp said:


> The product is called "Finishing Oil". It's a bit like a lighter grade of Danish Oil.


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## whatknot (15 Oct 2017)

Many thanks 

These minor subjects do seem to be a minefield once you start exploring them don't they 




CHJ":2pd6d6i6 said:


> whatknot":2pd6d6i6 said:
> 
> 
> > .....Fogive my ignorance but what do they mean by "finishing oil" ?
> ...


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## CHJ (15 Oct 2017)

Yes always check the specification of similar named products and check that they have been certified as child safe.

There is a description of the various characteristics of the Chestnut Oils on their web site.

I believe that another quirk of testing and certification is that Food Safe and Child Safe are different categories, one ascertaining that they won't contaminated food when cured but not necessarily safe if consumed by a small child.


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Oct 2017)

Bestwood Danish Oil is child and food safe.


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## redmoorphil (16 Oct 2017)

Sorry to be the voice of doom! but:
*Please be aware that making kids toys for a show is an absolute minefield.* They must be safety tested and carry the CE mark to show that they have been. You can do it yourself but it just isn't worth the fuss and getting it done elsewhere costs an absolute fortune. Without doing this you are opening yourself up to legislative trouble (e.g. what if a child chokes on one of your puzzles or a piece that comes off a toy?) and trading standards can get involved if the items are not correctly labelled. You can't just say they are safe, you have to produce the paperwork showing what tests were performed and the results.
This is really unfortunate, as I am sure that most hand made toys are 1000% safer than some of the tat in the shops but the government have made it just too risky to produce them. I now only make puzzles/toys for adults and make sure that people are aware that this is the case by notices on my table and cards put in the bag with the items. It's a real shame but the only people that get my kids toys are my friends and family at xmas.

That being said, if you go ahead:
What about the beeswax paste recipe from toymakingplans.com ? If i remember correctly its 1 pint of mineral oil and 1/2 a cup (american measurements) of grated beeswax. It has a lovely feel and a piece of cake to make. You just have to make sure that the pieces still fit after finishing puzzles. This is where Danish Oil comes into its own - no raised grain. Toolstation do a great danish oil for about £25 for 5 litres which is fine for sealing natural wood but I have found that if you stain the wood first it tends to dissolve the stain somewhat. Cheap and cheerful Bird Brand works better on sealing woodstain - or even food colouring. Just dont use TESCO own food colouring - rubbish, get supercook if you want to go down that path - at least food colouring is safe for kids too. A lot of Danish Oils are not safe for kids until they are cured - about 30 days.


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## CHJ (16 Oct 2017)

http://www.childsafetyeurope.org/public ... -guide.pdf


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## whatknot (16 Oct 2017)

I hear what you say but every show abounds with puzzles and items clearly made for children

As found in recent photos in these very forums 

I will have a look at that recipe just in case it might be useful

I notice there are oodles of toy plans on that site but of course the USA has no such need it seems for CE etc ;-) 

I suppose it also depends on how you describe an item too 




redmoorphil":3cfwj6pr said:


> Sorry to be the voice of doom! but:
> *Please be aware that making kids toys for a show is an absolute minefield.* They must be safety tested and carry the CE mark to show that they have been. You can do it yourself but it just isn't worth the fuss and getting it done elsewhere costs an absolute fortune. Without doing this you are opening yourself up to legislative trouble (e.g. what if a child chokes on one of your puzzles or a piece that comes off a toy?) and trading standards can get involved if the items are not correctly labelled. You can't just say they are safe, you have to produce the paperwork showing what tests were performed and the results.
> This is really unfortunate, as I am sure that most hand made toys are 1000% safer than some of the tat in the shops but the government have made it just too risky to produce them. I now only make puzzles/toys for adults and make sure that people are aware that this is the case by notices on my table and cards put in the bag with the items. It's a real shame but the only people that get my kids toys are my friends and family at xmas.
> 
> ...


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## whatknot (16 Oct 2017)

You lose the will after wading through that lot :-( 

I know we need regulation but .............






CHJ":3lzyxo5v said:


> http://www.childsafetyeurope.org/publications/info/product-safety-guide.pdf


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## graduate_owner (17 Oct 2017)

I wonder if you could sell toys in kit form with instructions for adults to assemble them. Would that bypass the stringent regulations, or at least some of them, by shifting the responsibility on to the adult who does the assembly?

K


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## whatknot (18 Oct 2017)

I think I am erring on the side of not doing childrens toys at all

I guess it depends on what a puzzle is described as or perceived as being, is a puzzle an ornament or something else ?

I am also thinking of leaving any simple puzzles in bare wood and leave the finish out of it completely 





graduate_owner":1t3uxw3w said:


> I wonder if you could sell toys in kit form with instructions for adults to assemble them. Would that bypass the stringent regulations, or at least some of them, by shifting the responsibility on to the adult who does the assembly?
> 
> K


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## graduate_owner (18 Oct 2017)

I think that veering away from childrens' toys is a safe way to proceed. Sad, isn't it? I understand the need for safety in toys, especially when you read horror stories about sharp pieces coming loose from toys for toddlers etc ( usually far east imports or fake copies), but sad all the same.
K


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## redmoorphil (18 Oct 2017)

When i first started cutting i intended to do toys, but quickly got dragged down by the legislation. It is unfair when places like poundland sell the cheapest most dangerous tat on the planet for kids. It does seem like just a red tape exercise rather than actually ensuring safety. I seem to remember that the usa proposed similar checks but were lobbied against it by craftsmen. Perhaps when we finally leave the EU there would be a chance for a change but i cant see it.


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## CHJ (18 Oct 2017)

The main thing to cover is the risk of choking hazard rather than the finish used as long as it's one certified as child safe by the manufacturer/distributor.

From this previous thread on the subject.




> In the United States, the Child Safety Protection Act requires warning labels on packaging for toys containing small parts. A tool called the small parts test fixture is used to measure toy parts. It is a cylinder tube that is 1.25 inches in diameter and between 1 and 2.25 inches deep. It is designed to mimic a child's mouth and pharynx. Any object that fits in the tube is considered a small part and must have a label on its packaging indicating it is a choking hazard for small children.









Frustrating lack of UK information.

BSI Education uses same dimensions but the following link previously referred to is no longer valid.
http://www.bsieducation.org/Education/1 ... linder.pdf


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