# Which scrollsaw?



## Arnold9801 (2 Jan 2019)

I would like to upgrade from a basic hobby scrollsaw. What are the forums views on the most recommended scrollsaw?

The Record and Scheppach seem quite popular on adverts. What are they like or should they be avoided? If so, for which one?

Your view some would be appreciated.

Regards


----------



## AES (2 Jan 2019)

An awful lot depends on how much you want/are prepared to spend. I have no personal experience of either the Sheppach or Record machines, but according to many posts on here, just about all these machines, including those 2, come from the same (probably Chinese) factory. Nothing wrong with that per se, BUT they just about all seem to be made down to suit a (low) price.

As such they will all definitely cut (!!!) but you will have problems with things like blade changing, pinless blades, perhaps (luck of the draw) not cutting precisely square in the sideways plane, excess vibration, not very good dust clearance (from the cut), etc, etc. In other words, "workable" machines (and at least in some areas improvable) but likely to become somewhat frustrating and irritating in regular use.

That leaves you 2 possibilities - buy SH as and when they come up. IMO you'd be looking at Hegner (still very much THE standard I think, but expensive for what they are now), Delta (I have no experience and quite rare this side of the pond, but have a very good reputation), and Excalibur.

If buying new then the above makes of course, plus Axminster Tools do their own label clones of both the Hegner and Excalibur machines. Again I have no experience of either but again, these Axi machines have a good reputation from posts on here, AND from my own experience, Axi's customer service is 1st class.

Personally I own an Excalibur 21 and am VERY pleased with it. Within the next few days you'll see a post from me about some updates I've made to my machine, but in short, I'm delighted with mine, as several others posting here seem to be also.

If you search back about 4 years for my post "Biting the Bullet" you'll find a detailed "report" from me as to why I chose the Exc 21 (I tried it alongside a Hegner).

Please note that at the time I bought my Exc 21, the Axi version (cheaper but virtually identical it seems, but with the addition of an NVR, not fitted to the Exc machine) was not available, otherwise I would, most probably, have bought Axi.

HTH


----------



## Droogs (2 Jan 2019)

If you are at the point of looking to upgrade to a "decent" scrollsaw, then as AES said "bite the bullet" and go for the best you can afford. This basically gives two choices Hegner or Excalliber (now sold as Axminster EX range). I have tried both makes and chose to go for the Axminster EX30, both brands are excellent bits of kit but the large plate and the fact that the saw arm swivels rather than the table are what swung (no pun intended) me to the EX30. There are plenty of threads on here about both ranges and it comes down to personal working habits as to which you go for. All the others are really just clones of each other built to slightly differnt budget with a few extras added. An interesting note is that the most popular blade supplier Pegas, who are just down the road from AES, sell an Excaliber clone saw under their own brand along with a niffty scroll bandsaw


----------



## AES (2 Jan 2019)

Hi Droogs, re your, QUOTE: ...... popular blade supplier Pegas, who are just down the road from AES, sell an Excaliber clone saw under their own brand along with a niffty scroll bandsaw . UNQUOTE:

Part of the above is not quite correct. I've been doing some background research and will be posting the results under "Upgrades to my Exc 21" currently in draft and will be posted on the Forum soon.


----------



## George.. (2 Jan 2019)

Hi, I’ve only used a Hegner 2s so cant compare with the competition. I find it a decent piece of gear, solid and free of vibration. To solve the table being at an angle when doing Bowl rings with the head tipped ,I’ve bolted the saw to a board which is hinged along its length to my bench. With the head tipped the saw is pivoted so the table is flat a suitable wedge is clamped between bench & board. Looks easier than it sounds and works a treat. 
George (hammer)


----------



## Arnold9801 (2 Jan 2019)

Thanks for your replies and advice. Will have Tom save a bit longer so it seems and go second hand!


----------



## aramco (11 Jan 2019)

Hi Arnold9801 do not know if you have purchased another saw yet, I have a record power 16 inch scroll saw, I was really pleased for 18 months with it, after I got the vibration problems sorted out - turned out it was my fault - what got to me was the length of time it took to make an internal hole change, could take up to two minutes, I bit the bullet and bought and Axminster ex 30 , to date I have not used t to its capacity, but the blade changes are down to 10 to 12 seconds, and that makes a difference with 200 internal blade changes , which ever saw you settle for new or used make sure it has a quick blade change .

take care
John


----------



## Chlad (22 Jan 2019)

I can't see an Axminster EX range on their website? Have they changed the name?


----------



## AES (22 Jan 2019)

They're called Axminster Trade now, and have a different ref number. Here's a link to the relevant page (look right down the bottom of the page):

https://www.axminster.co.uk/machinery/saws/scroll-saws


----------



## Chlad (22 Jan 2019)

I'm in the marketfor a scrollsaw as well. Would the OP mind if I ask questions in this thread rather than opening yet another one like this?


----------



## Droogs (22 Jan 2019)

Chlad, the protocol is to usually just apologise and then hijack with your question and see how it goes :shock:


----------



## AES (22 Jan 2019)

Yup, +1 for Droogs? comment. I for one am often "guilty" of this (and I'm by no means the only "offender")!


----------



## Chlad (22 Jan 2019)

Ah well, in that case, when in Rome...  

So apolgies for hijacking the thread Arnold... :mrgreen: 

I just wanted to ask, I am new to using scrollsaws and as such I am a bit reluctant to splash out on a £500+ scrollsaw. Especially considering that I will be doing amateur light work. Would the Ax Craft AC456SS be a good one for me to start with? Or should I look at something else?

I would happily buy a second hand Trade but they dont often come up.


----------



## aramco (23 Jan 2019)

hi and welcome , there has been a few axminster and hegner recently on ebay , dont know the condition ,there is a for sale section on this forum and axminsters sometimes come up on that .

take care 
John


----------



## AES (23 Jan 2019)

Chlad,

Can I please direct you back to the first couple of lines in my post of 2nd Jan (above). Make no mistake, all these cheapo scroll saws WILL cut wood, and with care they do quite a good job (my first two were cheapo/very simple machines).

I can well understand anyone who does not know enough about scrolling to want to avoid splashing out 500 quid (or more!) on a machine if they're not yet sure that scrolling is what they want to do. But 2 points there - 
1. if you DO get fed up with the machine you'll stand a better chance of getting more (NOT all, but most) of what you spent if you're selling on the SH market a machine that has a good reputation; and;
2. don't forget that even a "simple" machine is capable of doing quite a lot of stuff in the "normal" workshop as well as "conventional" scrolling. In fact I remember see a Youtube video some time back (can't remember by whom and when, sorry) from a bloke who was saying that a scroll saw SHOULD be found in just about every woodies shop! (And I do a fair bit on sheet metal cutting on mine too).

Where cheapo/simple machines fall down is when you get to the point of having done enough work to know that you like scrolling and want to do more, only to become more and more frustrated because: 
blade changing, squaring up, making angled cuts, getting and keeping the right blade tension, and being able to use both pinned and pinless blades, etc, etc, 
all become aright PITA because the cheapo/simple machines are poor in all those respects, being both poorly designed and cheaply made.

So I'd really only suggest that anyone buy an Excalibur, Hegner, Delta, etc WHEN they're sure that scrolling really is for them.

HTH


----------



## aramco (23 Jan 2019)

hi again started off with a cheap lumberjock, only took pinned blades so it went back, next a record power 16 inch , after I got the vibration problems sorted out , I used it for 18 months before I got really into plaques etc , and found out the major draw back with this saw was the blade changing to interior cuts, could take up to 2 minutes , so I bit the bullet and bought an axminster trade ex 30 as I want to eventually do large plaques and intarsia, the major plus is the blade change times are now down to 10 to 12 seconds , and when one does plaques with 500 plus internal cuts that time really counts,it all comes down to now what you want a scroll saw for, but I will say this buy the best one you can afford, but make sure it has a pegas blade changing system , then the scroll saw world is your oyster.

take care
John


----------



## Chlad (23 Jan 2019)

Thank you guys. The advice is much appreciated. I've decided to stay away from Hegner because I read on anohter thread that their prices are hugely inflated (especially spare parts). Would an Axminster AWFS18 be considered a decent scrallsaw? I've seen them for sale second hand now and again.


----------



## AES (23 Jan 2019)

There's a bloke called Brian Wardell (Forum name Claymore) who used to post a lot on here, but has been absent for a while due to family bereavement. When posting (up to late last year) his stuff was all absolutely 1st Class (I'm sure others will agree). As well as the 30 inch Excalibur/Axi Trade machine he also had/has an Axi AWFS18 which he always said was very good. I think (repeat only think) that he also said that that machine is actually a clone of one of the Hegner models.

Suggest you do a search for posts by Claymore, and/or a search for AWFS 18 to see what everyone else thinks - I think there are other owners of that machine here.


----------



## toolsntat (23 Jan 2019)

If the Diamond was available (New) today, would it be a worthy contender for this topic?
Better than the top two, equal or a lesser option?
Cheers Andy


----------



## AES (23 Jan 2019)

Never having seen one (only pix), personally I can't say.

In the matter of comparisons I have a feeling that comparing scroll saw brands (and lots of other things) is a bit like comparing, say, cars. Some swear by, say, Fords, while others wouldn't give a Ford houseroom.

I think that ANY scroll saw which allows you to, for example:

change blades quickly; takes, pinned and pinless blades; has multi speeds (though some say that's not necessary); stays square to the cut/table; allows easy and accurate cutting of angles; etc, etc (whatever else a person needs);

is then basically a "good" machine. Yeah, some ARE better than others, but so are the prices, AND I feel a lot depends on each users preferences too.


----------



## aramco (23 Jan 2019)

I totally agree with AES on all points including cars mine is a BMW to heck with fords and my saw is an axi trade 30 bought because Brian - claymore - suggested it for the work I want to aspire to one day, axis do come for sale on here from time to time wish you luck with which ever one you buy and hope to see some of your work on here soon.

take care
John


----------



## Chlad (24 Jan 2019)

AES":hzw15qyt said:


> I think (repeat only think) that he also said that that machine is actually a clone of one of the Hegner models.



Ah yes, I remember reading a post on here which did say that the AWFS18 is a clone of the cheaper Hegner machine. Will have to keep an eye for a second hand one because I am unable to afford to spend more than £300 for a scrollsaw. Very strangely there seems to be a gap in the market for machines in that price range as well. They are all either £200 and below or £500 and above. 

I've also seen some Jet saws for sale but not got a clue about their reputation.


----------



## AES (24 Jan 2019)

I think you're quite right Chlad. From what I've seen (remember please, I'm not UK-based) there is a gap in the market. Just as you say it jumps some prices of around the 250-300 quid mark straight to the 500 & more mark.

I well understand your concern, but bear in mind the comments about cheapo machines DO work, but if you want better than that, with your budget I think SH is the answer. There have been some apparently good machines for sale here from time and there is of course the bay, etc, etc. So a question of waiting I think.


----------



## whatknot (24 Jan 2019)

I have an AWFS18 and its an excellent saw, like the Hegner it does require the addition of the top quick clamp if it doesn't already have one 

Other than that its a great machine




Chlad":3bu4879u said:


> Thank you guys. The advice is much appreciated. I've decided to stay away from Hegner because I read on anohter thread that their prices are hugely inflated (especially spare parts). Would an Axminster AWFS18 be considered a decent scrallsaw? I've seen them for sale second hand now and again.


----------

