# New Mistery Veritas Stuff: Custom Bevel Down Planes



## J_SAMa (12 Sep 2014)

I seem to be the last one to know about this...
http://www.leevalley.com/us/home/page.aspx?p=72236&c=
Not much time left for guessing this but what do you think it is?

I hope it's moulding planes or carving tools.

Actually a pair of panel saws would complete their whole line of saws.

Or shall we have the MkIII honing jig? (hammer)

Edit: "starts with us and finishes with you", sounds like a kit of some sort don't you think?
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Well it sort of is a "kit" in that you can customize it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyPK1IppxqU#t=123
Looks like Veritas is trying to compete with Lie Nielsen's high-angle frog offerings, except they took it one step further


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## Jacob (12 Sep 2014)

J_SAMa":188wyloj said:


> ....
> Not much time left for guessing this but what do you think it is?....


Something very expensive which nobody needs?


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## J_SAMa (12 Sep 2014)

To be fair most of their things are reasonably priced... In North America.
Their saws are still bargains even here in Europe.


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## Vann (12 Sep 2014)

J_SAMa":nt3a8e0m said:


> To be fair most of their things are reasonably priced... In North America.


What problems do you have in Nederland, buying direct from Lee Valley? In UK they seem to get taxed on everything, so that it's seldom worthwhile. Over here in New Zealand, so long as the value is not much more than $500 NZD, we don't even have to pay GST - which means decent savings can be had.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Vann (13 Sep 2014)

http://www.leevalley.com/us/home/page.aspx?p=72236&c= Hmm... A power tool or a storage system maybe?



lee valley":490dxpqy said:


> On Sept. 13, 2014 at 12:00pm...


12:00*pm*, whens that? I thought it was 12 noon or 12 midnight! 11:59am, 12:00 noon, 12:01pm or 11:59pm, 12:00 midnight, 12:01am... (hammer) 

Cheers, Vann.


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## J_SAMa (13 Sep 2014)

Vann":b1lf9hn4 said:


> http://www.leevalley.com/us/home/page.aspx?p=72236&c= Hmm... A power tool or a storage system maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



12 noon. Which is something like 5 pm here?


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

All I can see is lawnmowers! :shock: 

A bevel up lawnmower? :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## J_SAMa (13 Sep 2014)

Vann":3j7lx32x said:


> J_SAMa":3j7lx32x said:
> 
> 
> > To be fair most of their things are reasonably priced... In North America.
> ...



Import duties applicable for 150 eur or more, and shipping of about 20 eur so not worth it....


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## JimB (13 Sep 2014)

jimi43":19xuiy2j said:


> All I can see is lawnmowers! :shock:
> 
> A bevel up lawnmower? :mrgreen:
> 
> Jimi


Or grass seed designed for bevel up.


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## lanemaux (13 Sep 2014)

All lawn mowers should be bevel up as grass grows vertically , hence you are working the "end grain ". I'm hoping for a new and improved box tool , maybe in stainless steel to go with the garden multi tool. Stylin in the yard dudes.


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## Vann (13 Sep 2014)

J_SAMa":1kjs5pp9 said:


> 12 noon.


Ahh, but how do you know? Surely there are two times each day with equal claim to being 12pm. The first being one minute before 12.01pm; and the 2nd being one minute after 11.59pm :-? :-s 

Cheers Vann.


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## iNewbie (13 Sep 2014)

Jacob":2b976fio said:


> J_SAMa":2b976fio said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



Much like some of your posts. :mrgreen:


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## J_SAMa (13 Sep 2014)

Vann":1prse1o3 said:


> J_SAMa":1prse1o3 said:
> 
> 
> > 12 noon.
> ...


Hi,
Well, seeing as it's still not announced... It's probably noon.
Or could it be 14/09 00:00?


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## marcros (13 Sep 2014)

it will be at 5pm uk time.


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## MIGNAL (13 Sep 2014)

Exciting stuff indeed. :roll:


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## carlb40 (13 Sep 2014)

J_SAMa":316j90bo said:


> Vann":316j90bo said:
> 
> 
> > J_SAMa":316j90bo said:
> ...




Thats not bad. Here in the uk its anything over £15 then we get charged VAT and import duty.


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## Dovetaildave (13 Sep 2014)

JimB":1167dmne said:


> jimi43":1167dmne said:
> 
> 
> > All I can see is lawnmowers! :shock:
> ...






lanemaux":1167dmne said:


> All lawn mowers should be bevel up as grass grows vertically , hence you are working the "end grain ". I'm hoping for a new and improved box tool , maybe in stainless steel to go with the garden multi tool. Stylin in the yard dudes.



I like to *sharpen my grass* with a hover, "lot-less-bover-wiv-a-hover" they say.
Maybe the mystery item under the blanket is...........(drum roll).................... a jig for the hover, :shock: 
I could do with a nice jig to get it just right =D>


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## iNewbie (13 Sep 2014)

MIGNAL":q9vzngda said:


> Exciting stuff indeed. :roll:



:wink: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnntjjJVUh8


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## MIGNAL (13 Sep 2014)

Or. . . . . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-L3xZ4ew0Q


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## iNewbie (13 Sep 2014)

Santa doesn't exist though. 

Remove Gordon and insert Veritas.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFnmT82yGpk


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## Paul Chapman (13 Sep 2014)

Custom bench planes http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/customplane.aspx?c=

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## marcros (13 Sep 2014)

Is the shooting board track new too?

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.a ... 82&p=72048


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## Peter Sefton (13 Sep 2014)

You just beat me to it Paul.
http://www.theunpluggedwoodshop.com/inn ... tools.html
They do look good!


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## Paul Chapman (13 Sep 2014)

Peter Sefton":152l9jke said:


> They do look good!



Almost as good as my Cliftons - but not quite :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Peter Sefton (13 Sep 2014)

Paul Chapman":pa5tuesm said:


> Peter Sefton":pa5tuesm said:
> 
> 
> > They do look good!
> ...



Well these North Americans are still learning their trade  unlike Sheffield who made it their trade


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## Vann (13 Sep 2014)

Paul Chapman":1zfqzt21 said:


> Almost as good as my Cliftons...


 ccasion5:

Cheers, Vann.


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## JohnPW (13 Sep 2014)

It seems the only real "custom" bit is the frog angle, and even then you have to pay extra for angles other than the 3 angles offered. 

It's hardly "custom" is it?


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## Mr_P (13 Sep 2014)

Look very light to this tall knob.


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## iNewbie (13 Sep 2014)

JohnPW":gn8e1bma said:


> *It seems the only real "custom" bit is the frog angle*, and even then you have to pay extra for angles other than the 3 angles offered.
> 
> It's hardly "custom" is it?



Then it is, custom. 

Its options. Who else offers the same options as Veritas - it may be marketing or a selling point but its options for people who want them. I'd rather have them than not.


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## Fromey (13 Sep 2014)

I've got a custom plane being made for me by Philly Planes. I don't see what all the fuss is about.


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

Fromey":qxz7vldo said:


> I've got a custom plane being made for me by Philly Planes. I don't see what all the fuss is about.



Now THAT'S worth a thread all on it's own...! 8) 

Do show and tell....

That's where I'd put me hard earned shekels if I needed another one...or the Antipodes...I hear they have some great custom makers in that neck of the woods too! :wink:


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## MIGNAL (13 Sep 2014)

Thought so. Lot of fuss about nothing. They look hideous.


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## Paul Chapman (13 Sep 2014)

Just read the instructions for the new custom planes and I'm a bit baffled :? Under 'cap iron setting', they say:

"The cap iron is used when planing either reversing grain or wood that is prone to tear out (eg when smoothing hardwoods). For other operations, such as flattening and jointing, the plane is used without the cap iron."

Can this be right? Does it mean what it appears to mean, ie that you have to remove or attach the cap iron depending on what you are planing? 

Veritas instructions are usually excellent but this seems very confusing.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## J_SAMa (13 Sep 2014)

The design looks a lot like the new Stanley Sweetheart to me, with its short irons and adjustable mouths. Seems unusual that Veritas is "copying" them


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## bugbear (13 Sep 2014)

J_SAMa":2649sxrb said:


> The design looks a lot like the new Stanley Sweetheart to me, with its short irons and adjustable mouths. Seems unusual that Veritas is "copying" them



Veritas had adjustable mouths way before the modern Stanley Sweetheart design. Comparisons wree drawn with the Marples #X04.

BugBear


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## Vann (13 Sep 2014)

Beautiful - I want the whole set.

So let me see: five sizes, each with 3 (standard) frogs, that makes 15 planes;
each with two different totes, that makes 30 planes;
each with 3 different knobs, that makes 90 planes;
each with 2 different irons - only 180 planes to collect.

HONEY ! We're selling the house.... :mrgreen: 

But seriously. I think I like them better that Veritas's existing BD planes, and I think it's a great idea, but I don't feel the need to rush out to buy any, anytime soon (let alone all 180 variations #-o ). For someone starting out, and with the finance to afford one or two, they're probably offer a degree of versatility not found outside of the high end makers ranges. Good on Veritas for developing the concept =D> 

Cheers, Vann.


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## Harbo (13 Sep 2014)

Paul have you bought one already? 

Rod


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## Harbo (13 Sep 2014)

+1 Vann

I have 3 of the LABU range which I love, so likewise will not be rushing out to buy.

Rod


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## Paul Chapman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi Rod,

No - the wife tells me I have enough tools :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbrains (14 Sep 2014)

Hello,

For experimenters in planing performance, these will be brilliant! Exact comparisons of cutter performance has always come down to a lot of conjecture, due to lack of parity from plane to plane. These could give us some real evidence as to how cutters perform under different circumstances, since for the first time we have a universal body that can plane with or without a cap iron, with fine or open mouths, achieved with a SIMPLE adjustment, and many variations on pitch from interchangeable frogs. Anyone wanting to test and document the results would have a useful resource of data, which could be much more relevant than some of the recent _scientific_ studies we have been offered.

Since I have too many tools already, I cannot justify owning one of these. I am seriously considering offloading some of my tools to make space for one, though. I think the idea is great. I was never totally happy with the line of BU planes, since making a low bedded plane to achieve a high EP by sharpening the blade with a high bevel, always seemed a bit contradictory to me. These new planes are a much better solution, and if I was tooling up for the first time, I would be buying these.

Mike.


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## Rhossydd (14 Sep 2014)

From what I've read so far these are custom built, but the parts don't appear to be sold individually, so comparisons will still have to be done by buying whole extra planes.

Yes, the idea of buying a base then three different frogs appeals, but that doesn't seem to be on offer initially.


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## woodbrains (14 Sep 2014)

Rhossydd":3442hl5z said:


> From what I've read so far these are custom built, but the parts don't appear to be sold individually, so comparisons will still have to be done by buying whole extra planes.
> 
> Yes, the idea of buying a base then three different frogs appeals, but that doesn't seem to be on offer initially.




Hello,

Yes it does!

Mike.


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## Rhossydd (14 Sep 2014)

Oh yes, found the page now, sorry my mistake.
Curious they don't offer the slow Norris adjuster as part of the configuration options.


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## woodbrains (14 Sep 2014)

Rhossydd":1nwsikl0 said:


> Oh yes, found the page now, sorry my mistake.
> Curious they don't offer the slow Norris adjuster as part of the configuration options.



Hello,

The slow Norris adjuster might be useful on the super high angle frogs, where small depth adjustment might be harder to achieve, as up and down movement becomes more significant as the blade is held closer to the vertical. Probably not essential, though and unnecessary on lower angle frogs.

Or perhaps it is just some form of workshop pet.

Mike.


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

Meccano set planes. What next ....... laser guided hammers. The old craftsmen must be turning in their graves.


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## MIGNAL (14 Sep 2014)

Slippers, yes! You will go to the Ball. Like I said, hideous looking Planes.


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## jimi43 (14 Sep 2014)

My old man used to say if you can't say anything nice about something....don't say anything at all.

So...I've decided not to say anything.

Jim


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## jimi43 (14 Sep 2014)

MIGNAL":1rl42a6g said:


> Slippers, yes! You will go to the Ball. Like I said, hideous looking Planes.



Sorry mate...I felt guilty after I posted my old man's slippers comment so I deleted it...but not quick enough obviously!  

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## CStanford (14 Sep 2014)

The most interesting aspect of all of this is that L-V have determined there's a market for these things, that people will keep buying essentially redundant tools as long as they keep releasing new ones.


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## Cheshirechappie (14 Sep 2014)

Hmmm. It seems one can now have interchangeable different-sized knobs, and a box of frogs in the workshop.

I'm not entirely sure what to make of that....


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## iNewbie (14 Sep 2014)

CStanford":1iw32418 said:


> The most interesting aspect of all of this is that L-V have determined there's a market for these things, that people will keep buying essentially redundant tools as long as they keep releasing new ones.



I know - keeps me awake at night so-it-does.


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## CStanford (14 Sep 2014)

Cheshirechappie":3i6z6c0q said:


> Hmmm. It seems one can now have interchangeable different-sized knobs, and a box of frogs in the workshop.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what to make of that....



Don't worry CC, the 'reviewers' will tell you exactly what you should make of it. Rest assured that all the usual names will pronounce it boffo.


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## Vann (14 Sep 2014)

swagman":21ykmh4l said:


> The old craftsmen must be turning in their graves.


Only if they took their lathes with them...

I'll get my hat... :mrgreen: 

Cheers, Vann.


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## bugbear (14 Sep 2014)

swagman":1gt2lvmr said:


> Meccano set planes. What next .......



You've seen the Stanley #55, right?  

BugBear


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## woodbrains (14 Sep 2014)

Hello,

The whole thing is, in the main,we are already tooled up to the hilt, so these are redundant. But,if we had no planes and were buying for the first time, money aside, would we still buy a bog standard Bailey pattern when something like this is available. Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so can't blame anyone for disliking that aspect, but to be honest I don't think Bailey pattern planes are beautiful, we are jut used to how they look. An infill or nice coffin woodie would be nicer, I even prefer the simplicity of Japanese Dia. But based on performance I think these look like they cannot be bettered by what we already have on offer. I like to think that if new Handtools are produced then things cannot be too depressing, in terms of people wanting to use them, and that can only be a good thing!

I actually quite like the aesthetics, though and I'm sure the quality is second to none. Cannot understand the moaning, really.

Mike.


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## Tony Zaffuto (14 Sep 2014)

I think Mike (Woodbrains) may hit the nail on the head. Also, having the ability to change parts of the plane after using it a bit, may be attractive to some. I read the instructions posted on the LV site, and I'm confused as to the use of the chipbreaker (used sometimes and not at other times). Would I buy one? Probably no, however, I will spec one out and leave on the list my wife has me make for presents - probably something with a high angle frog in a 4-1/2 size.

Style-wise, they remind me of the old Stanley Gage metal planes.


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## JimB (15 Sep 2014)

Reminds me a little of Stanley's last great innovation which never seems to have made it across here.
My first thought was that if I can lose pencils on a clean bench what chance do I have with one of these. They seem designed for the inveterate fiddler - but perhaps that is a profitable market.


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## bugbear (15 Sep 2014)

As various people have pointed out, excellent work was done in the 17th century. So "what's the point" of any later plane?

I'm always (in many fields) grateful to the experimentors, inventors and early adopters. They drive improvement, to the general good.

BugBear


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## Corneel (15 Sep 2014)

I agree with Mike. I won't be a customer, too much attached to my romantic old ones. But look at the vast market potential among power tool users. A flashy new line of not too expensive, easy to use planes might persuade a few to part with their money.


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## Fromey (15 Sep 2014)

Significant improvements on ancient tools are still possible (as evidenced by the lever axe; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4I3i36IJrY ), but some "improvements" are marginal. To me, these new planes look like definite improvements, but marginal ones. How important that margin is and how much you're willing to pay for it will always be a personal calculation and choice. Good for Veritas, let's hope they thrive and continue to foster hand tool use in all its forms and fashions.


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## bobbybirds (15 Sep 2014)

I am always surprised when people complain about having too many choices in quality products...

Yes many of us already have an arsenal of tools and do not require anything new, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is in that same position. If I was starting to acquire new tools today, these would probably be on my list to research, and having more quality choices is great!


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## jimi43 (15 Sep 2014)

bobbybirds":38x29mlm said:


> I am always surprised when people complain about having too many choices in quality products...
> 
> Yes many of us already have an arsenal of tools and do not require anything new, but that doesn't mean EVERYONE is in that same position. If I was starting to acquire new tools today, these would probably be on my list to research, and having more quality choices is great!



(insert "with all due respect" smiley)

I think you are confusing "complaining" with "having an opinion about".

They are two different things entirely and although I thoroughly support any enterprise which encourages the use of hand tools and the perpetuation of the craft.....I think these are both lacking in style and not something a person starting out would need.

It would be difficult enough getting experience at planing let alone learning the finer arts of pitch adjustment.

I hope they sell well...time will tell. Well done Veritas for innovation....yet again. They make a great tool rest! :wink: 

(that's Veritas not the new planes....I hope! Where is Freud when you need him!)

Jimi


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## Andy Kev. (15 Sep 2014)

Has anybody seen anything to the effect of whether the angled totes can be bought separately for retro-fitting to existing Veritas planes? (Assuming that they have the same bolt arrangement.)


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## Jacob (15 Sep 2014)

Pure steam punk.
They could have a stand here perhaps http://www.theguardian.com/fashion/gall ... es-lincoln as "essential accessories" or something along those lines.


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## Cheshirechappie (15 Sep 2014)

Now there's an idea - a steam-powered hand plane.

It could use the rotary cutter block from an electric hand-plane, powered by a small, onboard steam engine. If the boiler for it was cleverly designed, it could even be arranged to burn it's own shavings.

Await Lee Valley's next April offering.....


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## Jacob (15 Sep 2014)

Couldn't find a steam plane but I'm sure there will be one out there somewhere.
I'd quite like this chap's kit - laser powered for marking out and measuring. You can see where Veritas get their ideas!


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## Cheshirechappie (15 Sep 2014)

Jacob":16ass2ab said:


>



Well, that's one way of dealing with woodworm....


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## Rhossydd (15 Sep 2014)

It will be interesting to see how these are sold internationally.
It seems at the moment to be a case of ordering a specific configuration. Will these have to be ordered from Canada and then shipped internationally ? or will local distributors hold stocks of parts to assemble in each territory ?


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## Rick in Oakville Canada (20 Sep 2014)

Rhossydd asked the following questions 



Rhossydd":3cam7wuo said:


> It will be interesting to see how these are sold internationally.
> It seems at the moment to be a case of ordering a specific configuration. Will these have to be ordered from Canada and then shipped internationally ? or will local distributors hold stocks of parts to assemble in each territory ?



I have read on other forums that in North America the planes are ordered online. If the plane includes a custom frog angle it is machined in Ottawa to order and available to be shipped within a day or two. I don't know how they could use distributors for the custom angle frogs. If there is a way to get these planes to customers in Great Britain and Europe, I'm sure Rob Lee will find it. A minor gloat for me is that I have a Lee Valley store a half an hour away from me and can go kick the tires on these planes any time I want (as long as it isn't a Sunday). Lee Valley stores have never been open on Sundays.


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## Rhossydd (20 Sep 2014)

Rick in Oakville Canada":1kdsz73l said:


> If the plane includes a custom frog angle it is machined in Ottawa to order and available to be shipped within a day or two.


Certainly if an plane has a 'machined to order' part, I'd assume it will have to be ordered direct from Canada.
I'm more curious about the other configurations that are assembled from off the shelf parts. Will there be a store(s) that have the set of option parts in store to assemble the different planes that don't need custom machined frogs ?


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## Doug B (20 Sep 2014)

Rhossydd":12pt0kbr said:


> I'm more curious about the other configurations that are assembled from off the shelf parts. Will there be a store(s) that have the set of option parts in store to assemble the different planes that don't need custom machined frogs ?



Phone Axminster they are the distributors, but no doubt like the Veritas PMV11 chisels they won't supply other tool stores so they will only be available through their stores at the price they want to set.


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## woodbrains (20 Sep 2014)

jimi43":2h32t0st said:


> I think you are confusing "complaining" with "having an opinion about".
> 
> 
> Jimi




Hello,

When does having an opinion become complaining, though? Having an 'opinion' on something in the negative, when no first hand experience of that thing could possibly have been had, though in concept that thing has all the characteristics found to be good in the things we do know about, IS definitely a complete definition of complaining! We could try optimism and enthusiasm, instead.  

Mike.


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## Rhossydd (20 Sep 2014)

Doug B":3scm199l said:


> Phone Axminster they are the distributors, but no doubt like the Veritas PMV11 chisels they won't supply other tool stores so they will only be available through their stores at the price they want to set.


Veritas is also available from http://www.canadiantools.co.uk/ at lower prices than Axminster too.


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## Doug B (20 Sep 2014)

Rhossydd":2i13aulm said:


> Doug B":2i13aulm said:
> 
> 
> > Phone Axminster they are the distributors, but no doubt like the Veritas PMV11 chisels they won't supply other tool stores so they will only be available through their stores at the price they want to set.
> ...



Doesn't look like they stock the PMV 11 chisels either :?:


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