# Thumping sound from new lathe... errr... help?



## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

I've just taken delivery of a new Axminster 1416VS. On starting it I noticed it makes a "whup whup whup" sound between 400-800 rpm. By 800 rpm it's so strong it's like someone's tapping the bench it's on with a rubber mallet. You can certainly feel the "thumps" if you put your hand on the bottom of the motor.

I moved the belt to the middle and high speed ranges on the pulleys and it's fine at all speeds (even down in the 400-800 rpm region).

Putting the belt back to the low range, the thump is back.

At ~823 rpm I counted the thumps at around 272 beats per minute, so a pretty accurate 3:1 ratio. But, with the lathe on the lowest range the motor would be going faster than the spindle, so I'm getting one "thump" for every three revolutions of the spindle (and more revolutions of the motor - which doesn't really make sense to me for a pulley related problem).

I've tried a range of tensions on the belt, and I can't immediate spot any belt or pulley damage. Obviously Axminster tech support has now finished for the weekend, so... anyone got any ideas?


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

I've confirmed that with the belt on the largest pulley at the headstock (slowest ratio), 3 turns of the handwheel equals one complete revolution of the belt. That ties with my findings above and indicates it's belt related.

The lathe however is now knocking at all ratios (but still worse on the lowest).

I can just about eliminate it if I apply very little tension to the belt (so little I can deflect the belt with my finger by at least 1.5cm), but that requires lifting the motor slightly when tensioning. Even tensioning with the weight of the motor is too much. That does seem pretty loose to me, or is that correct?

I've checked the grub screws on the pulleys, and they're fine. A visual inspection seems to indicate little if any wobble on the pulleys. I notice the headstock isn't bolted to the bed completely square, but it lines up well with the headstock, and I assume a few degrees shouldn't cause a problem with the belt anyway.

Another visual check of the belt doesn't show any obvious problems. So... just leave the belt loose?


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## Paul Hannaby (2 Jul 2016)

If you leave the belt loose it will slip under higher loads so you need to get the problem sorted out.


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

Paul Hannaby":1rq4dvwi said:


> If you leave the belt loose it will slip under higher loads so you need to get the problem sorted out.


Thanks Paul. I'm trying to work out what constitutes "loose" though. I'm a brand new turner, so I can't just chuck something on the lathe and get an experience based feel for whether it slips in what should be normal cutting conditions.

From memory, old farm type machinery tends to have belts that flap about quite a bit. I also found a lathe related discussion where a guy was saying that 3/8" to 1/2" of deflection with light finger pressure was about right. It might be around that, though it does seem loose to me.

I had assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that the tension applied by the weight of the motor would be "about right", but maybe that's too much?


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## CHJ (2 Jul 2016)

Take the belt off the pulleys, has it taken a 'set' resulting in a 'flat' or 'kink' in its profile instead of being a smooth circle or ellipse?

If it has, it might work itself out if run under reasonable tension for a few minutes. 

But before you try prolonged runs do a 'Screwdriver' sounding of headstock bearing area to make sure the knocking is not a bearing cage are similar cyclic catching on debris.


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

CHJ":33z8rlxj said:


> Take the belt off the pulleys, has it taken a 'set' resulting in a 'flat' or 'kink' in its profile instead of being a smooth circle or ellipse?
> 
> If it has, it might work itself out if run under reasonable tension for a few minutes.
> 
> But before you try prolonged runs do a 'Screwdriver' sounding of headstock bearing area to make sure the knocking is not a bearing cage are similar cyclic catching on debris.


I'll check - I don't recall seeing any flats or kinks when I first looked.

By 'Screwdriver' sounding do you just mean tapping parts?

I dived in and roughed a 2" square length of stock (actually the first time I've ever done that), but it was still knocking at the end (several minutes later). I was running the belt pretty loose though.


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## Robbo3 (2 Jul 2016)

sploo":6gloed0t said:


> By 'Screwdriver' sounding do you just mean tapping parts?


Nope. Stick the blade end somewhere near but not on a revolving part then your ear on the handle. Any knocking will be magnified & you'll hear a rumble/drone if the bearings aren't running right.
By moving the tip to other places you can pin down where the noise is being generated.
It should go without saying that care should be taken when using this method.


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## Sheptonphil (2 Jul 2016)

Hmm. My 1416 was as smooth as a sewing machine when I tensioned the belt with the weight of the motor.

I guess the knocking is without a chuck on as you rounded 2 x 2 stock?

Phil


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## Lons (2 Jul 2016)

My 1416vs is good as well. I'd get Axminster involved as it's a new lathe.


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

Robbo3":12gqil4n said:


> sploo":12gqil4n said:
> 
> 
> > By 'Screwdriver' sounding do you just mean tapping parts?
> ...


Got it - thanks.

With the belt completely off the motor pulley I used a screwdriver on the motor body - nice and smooth.

I checked the belt all round, both sides. No kinks, debris, flaws, or obvious bumps as far as I can see.

Putting the belt back on (lowest ratio) and tensioned with just the weight of the motor I used a screwdriver on the headstock. At low speeds there's a "distant helicopter" rattle. Slowly bringing the speed up you start to hear the "heartbeat" thump begin, and by the time the motor's running at full speed the thump is deafening through the screwdriver.

My benchtop is definitely magnifying the sound (acting as a diaphram) but you can feel the machine the knocking so it's definitely got an issue.




Sheptonphil":12gqil4n said:


> I guess the knocking is without a chuck on as you rounded 2 x 2 stock?


Originally with just the supplied faceplate screwed onto the headstock. I later removed it and fitted the 4 prong drive centre, but the sound is there all the time (and still was with some stock between centres).



Lons":12gqil4n said:


> My 1416vs is good as well. I'd get Axminster involved as it's a new lathe.


That looks like where it's headed. I'm sure hoping it can be fixed without a) time I don't have, and b) sending the darn thing back.

I've not had too much luck so far - a Sorby ProEdge turned up from Yandles with some paint missing* (and a damaged belt), and the belt tracking was so far out when I first turned it on that the belt removed more paint from the inside of the removable side cover before I could switch it off.

The 10" bowl gouge (from Axminster) was packed in a way to maximise shipping damage risk. If I put a straightedge underneath the shaft (touching the underside of the tip, and underside by the handle) there's a ~2mm upwards bow in the middle along the length. I don't know if that's normal or whether it did get bent in transit.

So far it's all a bit disappointing considering the money spent. I guess it'll be sorted in time.

* The missing paint on the ProEdge looks to be a factory issue, rather than transit damage


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## Sheptonphil (2 Jul 2016)

Feel for you. There's nothing like taking the shine off excitement of the shiny new kit than having these niggles. 

I agree this lathe is almost certainly going to be a return and replace. I can't see a gouge being bent in transit, but all mine are true straight. 

Only way is up from here. 

Phil


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

Sheptonphil":18mwlsgx said:


> Feel for you. There's nothing like taking the shine off excitement of the shiny new kit than having these niggles.
> 
> I agree this lathe is almost certainly going to be a return and replace. I can't see a gouge being bent in transit, but all mine are true straight.
> 
> ...


I suppose the bearings and headstock shaft will be user replaceable? Maybe that could be done in the field. It'd be quite a lump to have to send back!

As for the gouge - I did check the other (spindle) gouge. It's shorter, but it's also not perfectly straight. I guess if a bowl gouge has a gentle vertical curve along the length (~2mm tall curve over 250mm) it's not really going to affect it in use?


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## NazNomad (2 Jul 2016)

I wouldn't argue with your postman if he's managed to bend a bowl gouge. :-D

Re: the lathe. It's obviously not something an in-depth inspection has cured, and I wouldn't expect you to need to delve any deeper trying to solve it. The machine isn't right, get Axi to sort it out.


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## sploo (2 Jul 2016)

NazNomad":9j4j7lhj said:


> I wouldn't argue with your postman if he's managed to bend a bowl gouge. :-D
> 
> Re: the lathe. It's obviously not something an in-depth inspection has cured, and I wouldn't expect you to need to delve any deeper trying to solve it. The machine isn't right, get Axi to sort it out.




The TNT guy actually carried the box with the lathe (50kg) all the way up the drive on his own. It's been a few years since I've been able to do that.

Unfortunately Axminster had opened the box and put the bowl gouge on the top, as the second box (with shorter tools and some other bits) was too short for the bowl gouge. Problem is: there isn't space in the lathe box, so it was squashed between the polystyrene and cardboard top - with only a sheet of cardboard protecting it from damage in transit. Not very clever - and the poly and cardboard have a clear gouge shaped depression.

I'm sure Axy will sort the lathe - I've always been impressed with their customer service. The problem is the hassle of getting it sorted as I obviously need to be in for something to be picked up and replaced. I had to pay for a Saturday delivery this time as I couldn't be around during the week.

I'll just have to wait until Monday before I can talk to them - that's the frustrating bit


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## sunnybob (3 Jul 2016)

I dont know this machine, but the noise you describe sounds like the motor mounting bolts are loose.
You say the motor weight tensions the belt? That doesnt sound right to an old fashioned guy like me. The belt should be tensioned and then the motor securing bolts tightened.


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## sploo (3 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":z4si3sz4 said:


> I dont know this machine, but the noise you describe sounds like the motor mounting bolts are loose.
> You say the motor weight tensions the belt? That doesnt sound right to an old fashioned guy like me. The belt should be tensioned and then the motor securing bolts tightened.


The motor is slung underneath the bed, and is on a hinged plate. When you loosen a Bristol lever at the front of the machine the motor can swing down (with the belt preventing it from dropping too far).

The hinged plate has a lever, and you use this to lift the motor (or push down on it to increase belt tension beyond just the motor weight), then you lock the Bristol lever to hold everything in place.

I did just check to see if the bolt around which the motor swings was loose, but it seems reasonably smooth (i.e. with no belt and the Bristol lever released the motor just swings, but doesn't otherwise rattle).

Here's another problem I've spotted though - unless you really apply significant downward pressure on the motor lever, the bolt/washer arrangement that holds the banjo to the bed will catch the ventilation cover at the back of the motor (it's a slightly larger diameter than the motor body).

This prevents you from bringing the Banjo near the headstock. You could twist it and just about get the toolrest where you need it to be, but I'm assuming that shouldn't be necessary. Obviously the top/rear of the motor is now scratched to b*ggery


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## sunnybob (3 Jul 2016)

sounds like a warranty call then. We tried.


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## sploo (3 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":2gvwgel1 said:


> sounds like a warranty call then. We tried.


Indeed. Thanks Bob.

I can't believe it should be possible to catch the back of the motor with the banjo. To prevent it you need to push down on the motor lever way beyond what I'd consider sensible for belt tension, so that doesn't seem right.


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## sunnybob (3 Jul 2016)

Its possible its the wrong belt. My 2 month old axminster bandsaw drive belt failed, completely snapped. When I checked its length it was so long that the jockey wheel had the belt bent right back on itself. I got a smaller one locally rather than fit another from then in case it was the same over length.

Axminster service is first rate, but I have found the original factory quality control to be sadly lacking on the last two machines I've bought.


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## selectortone (3 Jul 2016)

Are the pulleys in proper alignment with each other?


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## sploo (3 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":2u96pwzy said:


> Its possible its the wrong belt. My 2 month old axminster bandsaw drive belt failed, completely snapped. When I checked its length it was so long that the jockey wheel had the belt bent right back on itself. I got a smaller one locally rather than fit another from then in case it was the same over length.
> 
> Axminster service is first rate, but I have found the original factory quality control to be sadly lacking on the last two machines I've bought.


I think the belt is the right sort of length. There's enough travel in the motor that I can have it very loose (looser than I think it should be, but still working) all the way to pretty taught (tighter than I think would be right for such a belt).

That said, if the motor tends to be too high, maybe the belt is tad too short.

Overall quality otherwise looks OK. Certainly it seems the inverter is an afterthought though - there's easily enough room to mount it under the bed of the lathe (I noticed the electronics for the Jet were slung under the bed). Instead the inverter sticks out of the back in a rather ugly fashion, and you end up with exposed cables to the rpm display. It doesn't cause and functional issue, but looks ungainly.




selectortone":2u96pwzy said:


> Are the pulleys in proper alignment with each other?


I believe so. Certainly I couldn't visually see any twisting or misalignment of the belt. The headstock casting means it'd be difficult to get a straightedge in place to do a better check though.


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## Lons (3 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":z6fnurk7 said:


> I dont know this machine, but the noise you describe sounds like the motor mounting bolts are loose.
> You say the motor weight tensions the belt? That doesnt sound right to an old fashioned guy like me. The belt should be tensioned and then the motor securing bolts tightened.



The motor hangs underneath Bob and is lifted to change pulleys easily then lowered and tightened by a single handle clamp, works very well.
though I give mine just a little tension it does run smoothly enough just with the weight of the motor.mine
*
EDIT: #-o Just seen Sploo reply so ignor the above. *


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## sunnybob (4 Jul 2016)

Got to admit I dont like the fact that the motor weight alone tensions the belt. It must bounce like a good un on start up, and any load applied to the chuck would again make the belt stretch and slacken before settling down again. Any drive belt is just like a car fan belt. It needs constant tension to perform correctly.


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## sunnybob (4 Jul 2016)

Just looked at the lathe manual. 
That motor shift handle should also be the tension adjuster. If it were mine, I would push down on that lever and lock it off exactly as i would adjust a car drive belt.
Of course, the original noise might not be caused by a loose motor, but I think it should be tensioned and locked off.


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## Lons (4 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":3he0z87o said:


> Just looked at the lathe manual.
> That motor shift handle should also be the tension adjuster. If it were mine, I would push down on that lever and lock it off exactly as i would adjust a car drive belt.
> Of course, the original noise might not be caused by a loose motor, but I think it should be tensioned and locked off.



Just tried mine Bob.

lathe runs fine with motor hanging on the belt but I would expect it to slip under load if not locked down. I've never used it like that and always lock the lever for obvious reasons and give it just a tiny bit of extra tension. Surely that's normal as a belt shouldn't be too tight or it will put undue pressure on the other components.

cheers
Bob


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## sunnybob (4 Jul 2016)

Ordinarily a drive belt should be tightened enough that deflection between the longest contact points would be about as much as your thumbs width, by just using your thumb pressure. As theres no actual measurement in the book, I would expect that to be good enough.
Have you looked at the inside surface of the belt? an imperfection there on the joint would give you the whump whump sound
This is the belt off my bandsaw. less than a dozen hours running time.


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## sploo (4 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":3luc2y84 said:


> Just looked at the lathe manual.
> That motor shift handle should also be the tension adjuster. If it were mine, I would push down on that lever and lock it off exactly as i would adjust a car drive belt.
> Of course, the original noise might not be caused by a loose motor, but I think it should be tensioned and locked off.


Bob - that's exactly what I've been doing: loosen the Bristol lever, push the tension lever down, lock the Bristol lever.

I did check the belt - both inside and outside - and I couldn't spot any damage, debris, flat spots, damage to the ribs etc. I spoke with Axminster this morning, who scratched their heads a bit and are going to send me a new belt as a first attempt.

Maybe the belt is a bit short (the issue of the motor being scratched by the banjo, unless the belt is tensioned way too much). I can't immediately think why that would cause a knocking sound as it's not like the motor is at the top or bottom of its travel in use (i.e. not bumping against the casting).

The frequency of the knocking matches one cycle of the belt, so it must surely be belt related... I think.


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## sunnybob (4 Jul 2016)

you'll most likely get the belt tomorrow, but i went to a car spares place and bought a new one. The material of that belt looked liked it was made down to the lowest possible price.
i bought a belt a couple mm shorter so the jockey wheel didnt turn it in to an alpine road course outline, and its been fine ever since.
You might well need a belt a couple mm longer.


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## sploo (4 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":wco4g908 said:


> you'll most likely get the belt tomorrow, but i went to a car spares place and bought a new one. The material of that belt looked liked it was made down to the lowest possible price.
> i bought a belt a couple mm shorter so the jockey wheel didnt turn it in to an alpine road course outline, and its been fine ever since.
> You might well need a belt a couple mm longer.


The belt is marked 280J, and I measured the outside length as 713mm. There seems to be a standard size available that's 280J4, 28" Length (711mm), 4 rib (3/8" Wide).

That though would point to the existing belt being pretty spot on in terms of size. Given that I can't see any flaws I'm struggling to see how a new belt will fix the issue, but here's hoping.


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## Lons (4 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":3tln0a0s said:


> Ordinarily a drive belt should be tightened enough that deflection between the longest contact points would be about as much as your thumbs width, by just using your thumb pressure. As theres no actual measurement in the book, I would expect that to be good enough.
> Have you looked at the inside surface of the belt? an imperfection there on the joint would give you the whump whump sound
> This is the belt off my bandsaw. less than a dozen hours running time.



Hi Bob

I'm not saying it's not the belt, probably is but the one fitted to the 1416vs is a *poly V *belt which in my experience is much more forgiving when it comes to tension. The belt is very easy to examine without removing from the lathe, just loosen the tension and turn over as I've done to take this pic and any fault or damage is obvious.


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## sploo (4 Jul 2016)

Lons":3rphr7ha said:


> Hi Bob
> 
> I'm not saying it's not the belt, probably is but the one fitted to the 1416vs is a *poly V *belt which in my experience is much more forgiving when it comes to tension. The belt is very easy to examine without removing from the lathe, just loosen the tension and turn over as I've done to take this pic and any fault or damage is obvious.


That looks familiar


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## sunnybob (5 Jul 2016)

Yes, its rare for that type of belt to faulty. It will interesting to see what happens.


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## Robbo3 (5 Jul 2016)

I hope they (Axminster) are exchanging the gouge as well as sorting out the lathe.


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## sploo (5 Jul 2016)

Robbo3":2s94mhpq said:


> I hope they (Axminster) are exchanging the gouge as well as sorting out the lathe.


I spoke to a guy at Crown Tools who told me they should be straight, but the cooling process and variable thickness of the metal (due to the flute) means they will usually move a bit.

A ~2mm tall curve across the 10" length was beyond what they'd normally want to see, and he said he'd be more than happy to exchange it directly. However, it shouldn't make any difference in use, and certainly wouldn't be noticeable. TBH I'll probably just keep it, as the cost/hassle of replacing something that should be fine isn't really worth it.


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## sploo (6 Jul 2016)

Well, I got the spindle out. Rather more "persuading" required than I was happy with. The spindle pulley is pretty tight on the keyway, even with the pulley's grub screws removed.

I see there's a 6004 and 6005 bearing as expected - rubber sealed.

I was hoping to get the replacement belt today... only it turns out it hasn't even been shipped yet as Axy didn't have any in stock ](*,)

I can see there's visible thread at some points on the sides of the belt (or conversely, rubber) but nothing that really looks like damage or unevenness. As such I'm less than confident a new belt will be the answer, but I'll have to wait regardless.


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## Lons (6 Jul 2016)

Hi Sploo

I'm completely confused over this. :? 

The lathe is brand new is it not and clearly is not fit for purpose.
Axminster is a reputable company with good customer service record.

IMHO, you really shouldn't be removing the spindle and pulleys, changing belts etc as that can be construed as unauthorised repair and affect the warranty.

I would have spoken to Axminster and insisted they deliver a new replacement machine and collect the old one which I'm certain they would do. Just doesn't make sense to me as the lathe even if sorted will always be a "repaired" model. It's not a cheap item and should be perfect out of the box or rejected - full stop!

Even if waiting for a courier is inconvenient, there's always a way, maybe a neighbour, relative or work address.

Bob


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## woodpig (6 Jul 2016)

On my 1416 the inside of the belt cover rubs on the belt on the slowest pulley setting. Not an issue for me so far as I don't usually use the lowest speed range. I should clean up the inside of the cover with a dremel or something though.


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## Sheptonphil (6 Jul 2016)

Have to agree with Lons 100% here.

A premium priced piece of equipment should be perfectly usable out he box, not going through repair procedure by you.

To then not even have the part is just taking the p***

You could have had a replacement lathe quicker. I think Axi are having a laugh at your expense. 

Phil


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## sploo (6 Jul 2016)

Well, yea, it's not exactly been a great journey so far (with the lathe or any of the other bits TBH).

When I first spoke with Axminster they asked if I could take it to a local store, which I didn't want to do for the same reason a replacement would be a hassle - it's pretty heavy for me these days, and simply man-handling it back into the box will be a pain.

The option to try a new belt was therefore just about acceptable, but the fact it wasn't in stock has really annoyed me as I've been waiting two days for it. To be fair, the lady I spoke to today was very apologetic and said they'd try to get one out overnight (though I haven't seen an email that indicates it's happened).

I've ordered a pair of SKF bearings as I might as well take the opportunity to change the original cheapo ones.

If the new belt works, then we're OK I guess. If it doesn't then I will be pushing for a same day collection and replacement - I can't really afford to take multiple days off, and I'd struggle to get the box in/out of the car and into the garage if they delivered to my workplace.

BTW I can't see how changing a belt is an unauthorised repair (especially as they've asked me to do it) - at some point you'd have to do it on a lathe anyway.


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## sunnybob (7 Jul 2016)

I think its ultimatum time. No belt within 24 hours or take it away.

And yes, I have also had to change bearings on my axminster bandsaw wheel. Something that should not need to be done after a 1000 hours working, let alone 10.
I'm starting to realise that axminster is so good at customer service because they get an awful lot of practice.


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## NazNomad (7 Jul 2016)

If something now goes wrong that you can't repair, Axi won't touch you with a barge-pole.

Why are you changing parts on a new machine? 

At this stage in the 'disappointment', I would be asking to speak to one of the Company Directors, not some shop-floor noddy.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/comp ... 9/officers


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## sunnybob (7 Jul 2016)

I agree with Naz, youre only 1 day away from the factory.
With me its completely different. i got the machines delivered here and accepted there would be no service calls. I had no problem with that because I have the skills and tools to do whatever I need to do.
I bought new bearings and belt because post from the UK is 3 weeks to me.


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## sploo (7 Jul 2016)

There seems to be a lot of people getting rather annoyed with Axy on my behalf :?

My only/main annoyance at the moment is that the delay in the belt means I won't be able to see if a new belt works until it's too late for a potential whole machine exchange this Friday (pretty much the only day I can be in for such a swap). I'm then away for a few days so there's nothing I could do anyway.

As for bargepoles - Axy asked if I'd have a go at replacing the belt on a machine we know has some issue. I suspect it'd be rather difficult for them to then refuse a return on those grounds (unless I'd taken an angle grinder to it in frustration, which I'm not planning on doing).




sunnybob":38ydgfaj said:


> And yes, I have also had to change bearings on my axminster bandsaw wheel. Something that should not need to be done after a 1000 hours working, let alone 10.
> I'm starting to realise that axminster is so good at customer service because they get an awful lot of practice.


Unfortunately that's the price we pay for Chinese* quality control. No QC = lower sale price = percentage chance you get a stinker.

* Actually I think this one may be Taiwanese.


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## Lons (7 Jul 2016)

sploo":1zxiregs said:


> BTW I can't see how changing a belt is an unauthorised repair (especially as they've asked me to do it) - at some point you'd have to do it on a lathe anyway.



It shouldn't be Sploo but I wasn't talking about the belt, it was removing the spindle and changing bearings that bothered me, you said _"* Well, I got the spindle out. Rather more "persuading" required than I was happy with. The spindle pulley is pretty tight on the keyway, even with the pulley's grub screws removed*"_,
Any marks or damage to the spindle or even fitting non original bearings would normally be "unauthorised" in any product warranty. repairs carried out within guarantee period normally MUST be done by authorised repairers in any case or the customer is breaching the conditions of the warranty.

Not my place to say but though I can fully understand your problems lifting and the inconvenience of deliveries, if it were me I'd be looking for replacement rather than the agravation of trying a DIY fix job. Surely someone local can put the lathe into a box and lift it in to your car! 

The MD of Axminster is *Ian Styles* I believe, why don't you email him personally and see what happens. [email protected] ...... Take it from me, bypassing the little guys who don't have the will or authority sometimes to sort things quickly works every time, I've needed to do so on several occasions (not with Axminster I hasten to add) and attitudes change very quickly when the directions descend from the top downwards.

Here's a full list of AXI directors if you are interested. http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=direct ... l%20Centre

Bob


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## woodpig (7 Jul 2016)

I don't believe there will be any problems getting a replacement machine if it's required as they've asked the customer if he would be happy replacing the belt. 

It's a shame really as its a good lathe. I'd really be interested to see what the fault is but we may never know if it eventually goes back to Axminster.


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## sploo (7 Jul 2016)

Lons":1o7kckhq said:


> It shouldn't be Sploo but I wasn't talking about the belt, it was removing the spindle and changing bearings that bothered me, you said _"* Well, I got the spindle out. Rather more "persuading" required than I was happy with. The spindle pulley is pretty tight on the keyway, even with the pulley's grub screws removed*"_,


I should probably rephrase that: I'm not a machinist, so I'm unused to doing that sort of work. I've removed bandsaw wheels in the past, and taken tools apart, but it's not something I really enjoy doing.

Getting the spindle out required tapping it with a plastic faced hammer (though I also used a block of softwood to prevent damage to the handwheel end).

I've always got machines back together and working before; I just find it a bit stressful as I always worry I'm going to screw something up!




Lons":1o7kckhq said:


> Any marks or damage to the spindle or even fitting non original bearings would normally be "unauthorised" in any product warranty. repairs carried out within guarantee period normally MUST be done by authorised repairers in any case or the customer is breaching the conditions of the warranty.


The bearings are a standard 6004 and 6005, rubber sealed, but look to be a budget brand. They pop out when you remove the spindle anyway. It's worth trying some premium bearings in case it is a bearing problem.




Lons":1o7kckhq said:


> Not my place to say but though I can fully understand your problems lifting and the inconvenience of deliveries, if it were me I'd be looking for replacement rather than the agravation of trying a DIY fix job.


Had I known the faff that was going to ensue, I would have gone down that route, but given where I am now I might as well try the new belt... when it turns up. If I don't see it on Friday then I'll be asking for them to come and change the machine.




Lons":1o7kckhq said:


> The MD of Axminster is *Ian Styles* I believe, why don't you email him personally and see what happens. [email protected] ...... Take it from me, bypassing the little guys who don't have the will or authority sometimes to sort things quickly works every time, I've needed to do so on several occasions (not with Axminster I hasten to add) and attitudes change very quickly when the directions descend from the top downwards.


Understood - but I tend to only go for the nuclear option once all other routes have been exhausted. Sure, things are not how I'd like them, but none of the Axy support guys have been difficult or obstructive, so I'll go to level 2 if and when level 1 doesn't work.




woodpig":1o7kckhq said:


> I don't believe there will be any problems getting a replacement machine if it's required as they've asked the customer if he would be happy replacing the belt.
> 
> It's a shame really as its a good lathe. I'd really be interested to see what the fault is but we may never know if it eventually goes back to Axminster.


Me too. If it does go back I'd love to know. That said, it may well be something they'd just ship back to the factory (probably more expensive for them to spend man hours trying to diagnose it) - that's just the way of the world these days.


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## Sheptonphil (7 Jul 2016)

sploo":24p0jict said:


> There seems to be a lot of people getting rather annoyed with Axy on my behalf :?.



I'm not sure I am as much annoyed with Axi as marvelling at your understanding of the whole episode. I think I want to nominate you for 'most patient and understanding customer in the face of adversity' award. 

I run a retail shop and get the odd ars* who really moans if a 30p DVD doesn't write properly first time, and it is usually their fault. 

I think I want some of whatever you take to keep you so calm :lol: 

Phil


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## sploo (8 Jul 2016)

Sheptonphil":3qpxizi4 said:


> I'm not sure I am as much annoyed with Axi as marvelling at your understanding of the whole episode. I think I want to nominate you for 'most patient and understanding customer in the face of adversity' award.
> 
> I run a retail shop and get the odd ars* who really moans if a 30p DVD doesn't write properly first time, and it is usually their fault.
> 
> ...


I look after a team of software engineers (read: cat herding). I deal with numerous other teams from various parts of the world. I have a young family.

A bit of hassle with a lathe is like a squeaky cup holder in the burning fireball of a car of my life :wink:


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## [email protected] (8 Jul 2016)

Hi Sploo

Feel free to email me your details and i will look in to the problem for you. [email protected]


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## sploo (8 Jul 2016)

I was going to call Axy this morning (and request a machine replacement) as I hadn't yet seen notice of a replacement belt being shipped. Obviously instead I called Richard, who's arranging for an exchange of the machine.

He did note that a machine exchange should have been the first port of call - so just to be clear to readers here; I did agree to try a belt change when I first spoke with Axminster - it wasn't them trying to refuse a machine replacement.

The only hassle is that I'm away for a few days, so we had to book a later date for replacement, but cross fingers the new one will be OK.


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## Grahamshed (8 Jul 2016)

Heres hoping so. I am thinking of getting one as well.


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## woodpig (8 Jul 2016)

One of the many nice things about the 1416 is that it has a larger than usual centre height for a small lathe. Let's hope someone runs up the replacement lathe to ensure it works ok before it gets shipped.


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## sploo (8 Jul 2016)

woodpig":3dkdnz3q said:


> One of the many nice things about the 1416 is that it has a larger than usual centre height for a small lathe. Let's hope someone runs up the replacement lathe to ensure it works ok before it gets shipped.


That was one of the reasons I chose it over the Jet (as I want to do bowls). They did say they'd check the new one first.

Unfortunately I can't be around to accept it until next Friday, so it'll be a week before I can get it sorted.


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## woodpig (8 Jul 2016)

sploo":23s8iiqs said:


> That was one of the reasons I chose it over the Jet (as I want to do bowls).



Same here. :wink:


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## selectortone (8 Jul 2016)

Grahamshed":2cf21r5r said:


> Heres hoping so. I am thinking of getting one as well.



Well, keep your eye on ebay then - there'll be a refurbished customer return coming up from Axminster soon :wink:


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## sploo (15 Jul 2016)

Lathe #2 has been delivered this morning. Casting quality is a bit rougher, but if it works it's acceptable. Unfortunately it doesn't #-o

It's got essentially the same thump/vibration. Straight out the box, in the lowest ratio as delivered, up to 800rpm *thud* *thud* *thud* *thud* *thud* *thud* 

It's not quite as pronounced as the first, and the main kick on this one oddly seems to be about every 3 belt revolutions - but there's other noise/movement too.

The noise is definitely being amplified by my wooden bench top, but you only have to put your hand under the bottom of the motor to feel it kicking.

I've phoned Axy again (the original is due to be collected this afternoon) and the best we can do is to get that one back and see if they can work out what's wrong with it.

Not the best introduction to turning


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## sunnybob (15 Jul 2016)

Not the best introduction to axminster you mean.

The next phone call should be the one that offers you a free upgrade and an engineer on site to accept delivery and check it over.


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## sploo (15 Jul 2016)

sunnybob":3dhtoaqs said:


> Not the best introduction to axminster you mean.
> 
> The next phone call should be the one that offers you a free upgrade and an engineer on site to accept delivery and check it over.


Well, I have used them a fair bit over the years, without any real problems (and customer service has always been very good).

Unfortunately I've spotted more problems with this new machine. One is the same as the previous unit - which is that when the belt is on the middle of the pulleys (middle ratio) the bottom of the banjo will hit the top of the rear of the motor if you try to slide it (the banjo) along the bed. It's a good 2mm overlap, so the only way to avoid it is to put significant downward pressure on the motor when tensioning the belt - more than I believe is sensible for that type/size of belt.

I could be wrong on the tension issue, and maybe it is "right", but you really do have to lean on the lever that's attached to the motor.

Additionally, I've spotted that the headstock and tailstock don't even line up. I've loosened and adjusted the headstock, but there's not enough movement to get closer than about ~1mm out of alignment. Interestingly, the thumping sound is slightly reduced as a result of that change, but is still present.

I've written an email rather than phoning (detailing the current and historic issues) as I think it needs putting on record at this stage.

As for an upgrade; I think the next model up is the AT1628VS, which I suspect would be unlikely to come for free (seeing as it's nearly twice the price). TBH I'd consider a heavily discounted upgrade as I'm losing faith in the 1416VS, but in reality I don't actually have the space for one (even though it'd be nice). No guarantee that the quality control on that one is better of course though as they could be made in the same factory.


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## woodpig (15 Jul 2016)

You've been very unlucky. Mine runs like a sewing machine and there are lots of others out there that run fine. I'm really intrigued now to know where the noise is coming from. I'm also wondering about the "drum" effect of your bench?! :wink:


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## NazNomad (15 Jul 2016)

Still, it was nice of them to make sure the second one was perfect before sending it. :roll: 

Customer service at its very British. 8)


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## sploo (15 Jul 2016)

woodpig":3k3gvf0t said:


> You've been very unlucky. Mine runs like a sewing machine and there are lots of others out there that run fine. I'm really intrigued now to know where the noise is coming from. I'm also wondering about the "drum" effect of your bench?! :wink:


Yea, it is a shame. The two units have similar serial numbers (approx difference of 90).

The drumming sound is simply because the machine is vibrating. If I cup the motor with my hand I can feel it "kicking", and that's obviously causing the bench top to vibrate. If I bolted it down to a slab of concrete I'm sure it'd help, but I'm reasonably confident the standard legs (which I haven't got) would also suffer - i.e. the problem isn't because it's on a bench.

I was also looking at the Jet 1221VS, but went for the Axy due to the motor. Perhaps the Jet's cheaper motor has allowed a bit more quality on the rest of the construction. Certainly I'm beginning to wonder if I made the right choice. I'm not sure I want to risk another 1416VS at this point, but do I go for the Jet or sink cash into the 1628VS...




NazNomad":3k3gvf0t said:


> Still, it was nice of them to make sure the second one was perfect before sending it. :roll:


Well, they did actually say they would check the new one first, but obviously I can't be certain if it'd been opened and tested (though I can take a guess).


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## woodpig (16 Jul 2016)

selectortone":1og8f4ft said:


> Grahamshed":1og8f4ft said:
> 
> 
> > Heres hoping so. I am thinking of getting one as well.
> ...



Yes, once repaired they'll be a couple of heavily discounted ones coming up on eBay by the looks of it.
If memory serves they still come with some sort of guarantee.


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## sploo (3 Aug 2016)

Finally some progress - I was reluctant to go for another 1416VS, and negotiated a discounted upgrade to a 1628VS. I appreciate the discount - but don't worry, I haven't got the deal of the century (in hours terms it wouldn't get near to covering the time I've spent sorting out the earlier issues).

Anyway, a 1628VS arrived on a pallet yesterday. First observation is that it's much easier to lift onto a bench (despite being twice the weight of the 1416VS). Although the headstock has cables to the bed (the inverter is mounted under the bed) the cables are long enough to allow the headstock to slide to the end of the ~115cm long bed - so they're also long enough to allow you to move the bed and headstock from a pallet to a bench as two separate (and reasonably easy) one-man lifts.

As yet, I've not had time to do anything other than plug it in, and run it up to speed on both belt settings. Even ignoring the thumping problem I had on the 1416VS (which was otherwise pretty quiet), this thing is quiet. Incredibly quiet in fact. And no thumping :wink:

The lowest claimed speed (150rpm) on the high ratio is difficult to set (right on the point the motor cuts out) but despite it sounding as though it should be quite weak at that rpm, there was no way I could stop it by grabbing the spindle's hand wheel - so there appears to be bags of torque available. I guess it'll probably stay on the high ratio until I one day graduate to really large bowls.

It shares the same odd mix of metric and imperial parts as the 1416VS, and it's clearly too big for my bench ( :mrgreen: ) but the initial impressions are definitely positive.

EDIT: Axminster did say they'd let me know what was wrong with the two 1416VS units, but so far I've heard nothing back.


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## Sheptonphil (4 Aug 2016)

Glad you are now sorted Sploo.

The two lathes in question really are two brilliant but different beasts. I've had both and say there should never be a reason for most to ever upgrade from the 1628. Much as I thought of the 1416, and I did do a lot of turning on it, I got ambitious with off balance and eccentric turning, and found I didn't have enough mass with it. Now I've got the 3520b, I do sometimes wish I'd kept the 1416 for smaller work like pens and boxes. I did though grin every time I turned the 1628 on. 

Enjoy it. 

Phil


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## sploo (5 Aug 2016)

Sheptonphil":3nby83xa said:


> Glad you are now sorted Sploo.
> 
> The two lathes in question really are two brilliant but different beasts. I've had both and say there should never be a reason for most to ever upgrade from the 1628. Much as I thought of the 1416, and I did do a lot of turning on it, I got ambitious with off balance and eccentric turning, and found I didn't have enough mass with it. Now I've got the 3520b, I do sometimes wish I'd kept the 1416 for smaller work like pens and boxes. I did though grin every time I turned the 1628 on.
> 
> ...


I must admit I'm liking the bulk of the 1628. The 1416 is likely more than enough for me, but the 1628 just feels that bit more assured.

Obviously there's now the problem that at spindle turning I suck. Badly. I guess it's just going to have to come from that dirty word "practice". I'd like to get at least a little bit of competence before I move on to bowls - even though that (bowl turning) is my primary intention.


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