# Traditional Stopped Chamfer Plane.



## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

Attached are shows photo's of a stopped chamfer plane I am part way through completing. 

Some basic measurements. The main body of the plane is 150mmL X 60mmH X 52mmW. The V formed on the sole is 32mmW at its base and is 16mmD. 

The iron is 32mm wide and is bedded at 55 degree's. 

The wood selected is Merbau.

I will post regular updates on the progress. 

Refer to the following post to familiarize yourself with this type of traditional plane. the-woodie-slope-steepens-t60950-15.html

Stewie;


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## Corneel (2 Sep 2014)

Nice start Stewie  

Some comments: Shouldn't there be a wedge somewhere? Mine doesn't have a wedge, the blade is attached with two screws, like you can see in that old thread.

Mine has a steel sole on the box. That's a good idea in fact because it is a fast wearing area.

How would this be helpfull for stopped chamfers? Wouldn't the box be in the way of finishing the stopped chamfer? I've got trouble a little trouble to wrap my head around the concept.

Mine is also bedded at an angle close to 55 degrees. That's very helpfull in fact to prevent tearout on the chamfer, which looks awfull of course.


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

Corneel":357b1zm9 said:


> Nice start Stewie
> 
> Some comments: Shouldn't there be a wedge somewhere? Mine doesn't have a wedge, the blade is attached with two screws, like you can see in that old thread.
> 
> ...



Hi Corneel. The cavity for the wedge will be cut away on the bed side of the wooden stop. Its a slightly different approach to what you would normally see but it should work fine. 

I am going to fit a brass sole to the bottom of the wooden stop. Its not as hard as the steel but it should suffice quite nicely. 

I am also considering including a raised curved seat behind the back of the iron to make the plane more comfortable to grip. Will see how things pans out. 

The descriptive "stopped chamfer plane" has little bearing on term "stopped chamfer". Its more referencing the adjustable wooden stop that's is used to control the depth of chamfer.

I had a good look at the chamfer plane you have. I like the idea of the slotted blade to blade to lock the blade in place; but I am not so sure on the non inclusion of the wedge. I would be a little concerned that the blade chattering under load. 

Thanks for the feedback Corneel. The 1st build is going to be a little slow as I am having to fine tune and record the measurements for use again. I would have liked to own a milling machine to machine the slot on the side plate adjuster. Not to worry. I will have to use a slower alternate method.


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## Corneel (2 Sep 2014)

Yes I was surprised about my plane too, but it works allright, even in pretty hard wood like oak. Chamfers are quite narrow of course, which reduces the force on the blade.


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

Corneel":8nh0mjil said:


> Yes I was surprised about my plane too, but it works allright, even in pretty hard wood like oak. Chamfers are quite narrow of course, which reduces the force on the blade.



I can understand the reasoning behind not including the wedge. The wedge in front would stop immediate access to the tightening screws for the plane iron.


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

Corneel":145zts3f said:


> Yes I was surprised about my plane too, but it works allright, even in pretty hard wood like oak. Chamfers are quite narrow of course, which reduces the force on the blade.



The slide mortise fit I did for the wooden stop turned out rather good. :mrgreen:


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## jimi43 (2 Sep 2014)

Nice one Stewie and it is refreshing that the old chamfer plane from that ancient thread should be reborn with your natural flare and create a new generation of that type of tool.

If it's anything like the quality and performance of the gorgeous toothing plane from the Swagman stable, then we're onto a winner here for sure! 8) 

One suggestion about the stop sole. I thought brass at first and then it came to me that another option would be some lignum vitae inserts. The self lubricating nature of this fine wood would probably solve the problem and be rather classy.

What do you think?

Jimi


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## Corneel (2 Sep 2014)

I am not so sure about brass. i hear that it isn't very wear resistant. Steel would be better, maybe even wood is better, especially something like LV.


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

jimi43":2mz7ywpa said:


> Nice one Stewie and it is refreshing that the old chamfer plane from that ancient thread should be reborn with your natural flare and create a new generation of that type of tool.
> 
> If it's anything like the quality and performance of the gorgeous toothing plane from the Swagman stable, then we're onto a winner here for sure! 8)
> 
> ...



Hi Jimi. Not a bad idea but Lignum Vitae (Guaiacum officinale) is fairly hard top come by down here. Merbau is actually quite high on the yanka hardness scale at 1925. I could probably get away with leaving the bottom of the stop unchanged, but the brass plate would add a bit of extra visual appeal. 

Not a bad idea though Jimi. 

Stewie; 


http://tinytimbers.com/janka.htm


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

Corneel":2oyb7jlh said:


> I am not so sure about brass. i hear that it isn't very wear resistant. Steel would be better, maybe even wood is better, especially something like LV.



I have no idea what scale could be used to compare the hardness of brass surface with that of a wood yanka data base. 

I would have naturally thought that the brass would have a surface hardness greater than most timbers needing chamfering. 

Where's bugbear when you need him. (hammer) 

Stewie;


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## Corneel (2 Sep 2014)

Maybe there is more to it then just hardness. But I'm starting to step way beyond my comfort zone here.

Anyway, steel is the real deal.


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## jimi43 (2 Sep 2014)

Corneel":p2khbijj said:


> Maybe there is more to it then just hardness. But I'm starting to step way beyond my comfort zone here.
> 
> Anyway, steel is the real deal.



Oh yes..I think that aesthetics are just as important as functionality here...particularly since we are dealing with bespoke tools which are primarily for working but an art form as a very close second.

I sincerely believe there is a link between emotion and skill when woodworking at this level.

If you are a professional in the true sense of the word then perhaps for day-to-day use then functionality and ease of use are of paramount importance.

But the work created by such wonderful tools are at the fine end of the spectrum and it is my firm belief that fine tools make fine work..all other elements (skill/experience etc.) being equal.

Stewie...if you wanted to go the LV route...and I sincerely think you should...then if you were to send me the rough dimensions of stock you will be needing I'll sort you out a bit and send it to you.

Obviously a bowling ball would cost more in postage than the benefit...but a I'm sure I can manage a few small bit.

Let me know

Cheers

Jimi


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## swagman (2 Sep 2014)

jimi43":9q50vxvp said:


> Corneel":9q50vxvp said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe there is more to it then just hardness. But I'm starting to step way beyond my comfort zone here.
> ...



Thanks Jimi. That's very kind of you to make the offer. I will keep it in mind. I have plenty of brass sheet in my workshop. I think from memory its 1.2mm gauge. I will trial that 1st and see how I go. 

From a historical perspective their are a number of casing examples on early woodworking tools where a brass inlay has been used to protect the bare wood from wear abrasion. As an example, top of the line mortise and marking gauges from well respected makers were fitted with brass on the inside block face. Years after use they still look as though they have not suffered any wear. 

lets see how things pan out. 

regards; Stewie.


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## bugbear (2 Sep 2014)

I "suspect" Australia has some "quite hard" native woods too.

BugBear


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## swagman (3 Sep 2014)

bugbear":2arqn7l1 said:


> I "suspect" Australia has some "quite hard" native woods too.
> 
> BugBear



Quite right bugbear. Down under we don't bother using axe heads. We just pick up a branch from the nearest Ironbark tree which is roughly 3- 4 foot in length; 2-3 inches in dia; and sharpen a cutting edge using an angle grinder. :mrgreen:


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## jimi43 (3 Sep 2014)

swagman":11d5otu0 said:


> bugbear":11d5otu0 said:
> 
> 
> > I "suspect" Australia has some "quite hard" native woods too.
> ...



Ah!

But is it self lubricating!?

Jimi


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## AndyT (3 Sep 2014)

Great link Jim!
Truly an extraordinary material.


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

Made some reasonable progress the last 2 days. 





















Next up is to dress the sides of the plane body and then make and install the brass slide inlay for the height adjuster. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (6 Sep 2014)

Brings back some "head scratching" memories mate!

Just pulled out my old user made oak chamfer plane and there are wear marks on the end grain of the stop...







...but they are just that...marks. They are not grooves. 

So clearly the supposed damage from use is not likely to be great...if at all.

Judging by the wear on the V part of the sole...this plane has had considerable use so any end grain will be ok....

And just to remind you how well these things work...






Have you thought about using an Australian coin as your washer...






I really liked that idea.

Having first hand experience of your fine work Stewie...I reckon this one is going to be a gem....

I took your toothing plane over to Douglas when we did the infill test...and he was pretty impressed. It's a lovely tool my friend...lovely!

Jimi


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

Thanks Jimi. A fair bit of deep thought went into the shaping of the wedge abutments on the wooden stop to prevent the bottom tangs from being seen from the underside sole of the plane. 

From that I was then then able to create a stepped rebate that serves to guide the shavings into the mouth and throat of the plane. But still maintain tight contact between with the inside face of the stop to that of the bottom cutting edge of the iron. 

I hear what your saying with the lack of wear pattern at the base of the stop. 

Appreciate knowing that Douglas liked the Toothing Plane. 

My current plan is to make 6 only of the stopped chamfer planes. ( boxed chamfer plane seems a better description to me.)
After that I will then switch to making some more toothing planes or do a couple of backsaws. Not sure in which order at this stage. 

Being able to switch to either keeps me fresh, and pick up new ideas along the way. 

I have just purchased some literature on marquetry and inlay work. 

Might be a neat idea to add a very small amount of wooden inlay into the final presentation of my traditional planes. 

Plenty of time available to broaden my knowledge base with a few more skills.

regards; Stewie.


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## jimi43 (6 Sep 2014)

Hi Stewie

Yes...a nice finishing touch to any tool I think.

You could include a rectangular inlay and stamp that with your brand stamp.

On that subject...perhaps a fine CHALCO stamp may be due now...you could stamp a load of rectangles from your favourite wood and inlay them into each plane you make whenever and wherever you like.

I particularly like Ian's work on the traditional tool stamps.

Jimi


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

jimi43":bbdigdvv said:


> Hi Stewie
> 
> Yes...a nice finishing touch to any tool I think.
> 
> ...



Hi Jim. I have been looking at getting a CHALCO STAMP for a while now. A swagman with T.T.CO would seem rather appropriate.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=swag ... B455%3B700

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (6 Sep 2014)

Indeed it would Stewie but keep the script and design sharp...remember you are stamping wood.

Were I to redo mine I would go for a mirror of what I did.







It takes a HUGE amount of pressure in a custom press to use this design where the background is impressed leaving the letters proud.

It does come out rather nice though! As you are making inlay stamps then I would use a softish endgrain and you'd be ok even with this design.

Don't go too big though...the bigger it is the harder it is to get right and even.

Jimi


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

jimi43":fsd7c5gn said:


> Indeed it would Stewie but keep the script and design sharp...remember you are stamping wood.
> 
> Were I to redo mine I would go for a mirror of what I did.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the advise Jimi. I know little on the subject myself. As I tend to always use hard timbers with my work I have been a little wary with proceeding with a Chalco Stamp. I really don't want to be too fussed with applying the mark with a press set up. The simpler it can be done the better. I may have to look at just TT.CO. in a classic font type. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (6 Sep 2014)

I am completely lost as to the terms but what you need is where the letters and design impress themselves into the wood..then you can just hammer the stamp but I strongly suggest you use a press...mine is an old 52 vise used vertically which presses down on the stamp with the item set up on the other jaw.

I will take a pic

Jimi


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

jimi43":14f4g8f7 said:


> I am completely lost as to the terms but what you need is where the letters and design impress themselves into the wood..then you can just hammer the stamp but I strongly suggest you use a press...mine is an old 52 vise used vertically which presses down on the stamp with the item set up on the other jaw.
> 
> I will take a pic
> 
> Jimi



Thanks Jimi. Appreciate it. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (6 Sep 2014)

One other tip which I picked up from Bill Carter is to stamp through thin paper.

This stops the stamp from skipping.

Tracing paper is best as it allows you to see where you are stamping.

It works!

Jimi


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

jimi43":24zyx92w said:


> One other tip which I picked up from Bill Carter is to stamp through thin paper.
> 
> This stops the stamp from skipping.
> 
> ...




Thanks Jimi. Bill must be getting on in age now. 

Stewie;


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## Corneel (6 Sep 2014)

A picture in your stamp could be fun, but it isn't easy to get a crisp stamp. Here is a picture of the stamp on my tongue and groove planes from Ary den Hengst, Rotterdam, The Netherlands, 18th century. The picture is a saint or an angel, but it is very hard to see.


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## swagman (6 Sep 2014)

Thanks Corneel. I can see it would not be easy to achieve a clear imagine of what I was looking at doing. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (7 Sep 2014)

The sides of the plane body have all been dressed clean.

The brass slide has been shaped and installed.

Next up is to complete all the edge chamfering and then round off the back end of the plane to make it more comfortable to hold.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (7 Sep 2014)

Hi Stewie....

Nice one mate...are you going to recess the brass strip?

Jimi


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## swagman (7 Sep 2014)

jimi43":3igkmmce said:


> Hi Stewie....
> 
> Nice one mate...are you going to recess the brass strip?
> 
> Jimi



Not sure at this stage Jimi. I don't mind the current look. I could just round over the sharp edges and leave it as is or inlay it semi or flush. I am open to forum feedback. What's your personal preference.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (7 Sep 2014)

swagman":pr6ap7by said:


> jimi43":pr6ap7by said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Stewie....
> ...



My choice would be to recess flush.

Jim


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## AndyT (7 Sep 2014)

I'd recess the brass too. And although I can see you want the adjustment to not need a screwdriver, I'm wondering if that nicely made brass knob might be just where your thumb wants to go when you are using it, bearing in mind that you will want to use it one-handed. My old one of this pattern, and others I have seen, all just have a little slotted screw.


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## jimi43 (7 Sep 2014)

AndyT":11ms4wtd said:


> I'd recess the brass too. And although I can see you want the adjustment to not need a screwdriver, I'm wondering if that nicely made brass knob might be just where your thumb wants to go when you are using it, bearing in mind that you will want to use it one-handed. My old one of this pattern, and others I have seen, all just have a little slotted screw.



My one's got a knob too...but it doesn't get in the way one handed.

But then....I'm a leftie! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Yet another advantage for the mutants!! :wink: 

Jimi


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## swagman (7 Sep 2014)

Thank you for your thoughts gentleman. I will recess the brass plate flush.

regards Stewie;


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## Corneel (7 Sep 2014)

Yes recessed!

And I am also not quite convinced about these thumbscrews. A normal slotted roundheaded one looks nicer in my opinion, and a screwdriver is always around on the bench anyway.

Funny, when making furniture I like modern lines, but in tools I am very old fashioned and traditional.


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## swagman (7 Sep 2014)

I am quite happy to recess the brass plate, but the knurled adjuster is staying put. (hammer) 

Stewie;


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## AndyT (7 Sep 2014)

swagman":1fcfzfqy said:


> I am quite happy to recess the brass plate, but the knurled adjuster is staying put. (hammer)
> 
> Stewie;



Fair enough! I reckon that this sort of discussion is something that a forum can do really well. It's better to know what the alternatives are, and be happy with your own design choice, than to look at the finished article and belatedly realise that you missed an option you would have preferred.

And there's plenty of room for all approaches. If I was making a tool, I would copy an existing design, where I can see that you like to experiment and innovate, as you have shown us with your saws.

But the last thing we need is design by committee!


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## swagman (7 Sep 2014)

AndyT":2neav01e said:


> swagman":2neav01e said:
> 
> 
> > I am quite happy to recess the brass plate, but the knurled adjuster is staying put. (hammer)
> ...



Hi Andy. I greatly appreciate the personal feedback from the forum. Sometimes its difficult alone to come up with a design that's going to be ascetically pleasing to the majority of viewers. 

I understand what your suggesting with copying an existing design. They indeed performed their intended task admirably. But to be fair, a majority of the earlier made boxed chamfer planes looked pretty ordinary from the underside, with the tines of the wedge poking through and gaps exceeding their own requirements.

I personally think what I have put together with this design is a visual improvement to what was considered acceptable in much earlier times. No disrespect intended. 

regards Stewie;


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## Corneel (7 Sep 2014)

swagman":7kbkyaj5 said:


> but the knurled adjuster is staying put. (hammer)
> 
> Stewie;



:lol:


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## swagman (8 Sep 2014)

The current screws for the brass plate are only brass plated. that's all I had available in the workshop in this size. I plan on applying an antique finish to all the brass fittings on the plane. I will go ahead and purchase a box of solid brass slotted screws and replace those that are there at the moment. 

I have finished shaping all the chamfering on the plane body, and started applying coats of shellac. 

I will sharpen up my new inlay knife tomorrow and then flush mount the brass plate. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (8 Sep 2014)

swagman":16tyyywy said:


> The current screws for the brass plate are only brass plated. that's all I had available in the workshop in this size. I plan on applying an antique finish to all the brass fittings on the plane. I will go ahead and purchase a box of solid brass slotted screws and replace those that are there at the moment.
> 
> I have finished shaping all the chamfering on the plane body, and started applying coats of shellac.
> 
> ...



Since everyone had a go at me about my crosshead screws...are you going to use slotted head?

I think it would save you from comments later on! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## swagman (8 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. Peer pressure was not the determinant for my change of mind. Feedback that makes good sense has swayed me. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (8 Sep 2014)

swagman":2ws1lh3s said:


> Hi Jimi. Peer pressure was not the determinant for my change of mind. Feedback that makes good sense has swayed me.
> 
> Stewie;



Oh yes...agreed...the point was they were right too! 8) 

Jimi


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## swagman (10 Sep 2014)

Not much work left to go to complete this 1st boxed chamfer plane.

All the chamfers has been done on the plane body and the back has also been rounded over to increase the comfort.

The side plate has been inlay ed flush to the side of the plane body.

When the solid brass screws arrive in the mail for the side plate I will also fit those.

I have also fitted the brass sole on the boxed depth stop.

2 more coats of garnet shellac to go.

Stewie;


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## swagman (10 Sep 2014)

For the user to quickly set the bottom of the stop to the same level as the top point of the V sole, I am thinking about the benefits of adding a reference line to the adjustment side of the stop. In practice if you want a fine or starting chamfer, you would slide the stop down and then lock it in place when the reference line was at same height as the top the plane body. The cutting edge of the iron would then be set just below this point. Then the wedge would be tapped down to lock the iron in position. 

Any thoughts;

Stewie:


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## jimi43 (10 Sep 2014)

The progress of the plane is stunning as usual Stewie and the difference between the recessed plate and the proud one is like night and day...much better now it's recessed.

The brass plate also suits very well and will be a great boon to wear and aesthetics too.

A datum line is a fine idea. You are doing some inlay work I believe...how about a contrasting wood inlay or even a tiny brass strip to match the other brass accents?

Looking good matie!

Cheers

Jimi


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## swagman (10 Sep 2014)

Thanks Jimi. I achieved a very close fit with the side plate inlay. Rather pleased with my efforts. The brass sole on the stop should work out real well. I used a 2 part epoxy to bond it. Both inside surfaces were ruffed up with a scrap piece of toothed saw plate to maximise the the grip of the epoxy. After the epoxy was set I then filed the brass to its final shape. 

The inlay for the datum height sound a good idea Jimi. I think it only needs to come in from 1 corner about 10mm to serve its purpose well, rather than straight across the full width of stop. I will have a look tomorrow and sort out if its to be done with brass or wood. 

The new bench stone arrived today. Haven't had time to use it yet but will do so when I sharpen up the cutting edge of the iron for this plane. Any pointers from your experience with this type of stone. I notice the gold side feels rather coarse at the moment. I understand this should fine up after some uses. Have you had time to test the fine ceramic side so far. I understand the fine side is 25 micron, but there are no details available to identify the micron on the coarser side. 

Stewie;

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Sharp ... 21C60.aspx


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## jimi43 (10 Sep 2014)

There will come a time when you wished that coarseness back mate!

The diamonds soon settle down but use light pressure and let the stones cut without damage. This is the same for all diamond stones I find..not too much stress.

The other black side leads to a near polished surface and both are super flat.

Clean off with dry paper towel most of the time until it gets really clogged then use a green plastic scrubber...some soapy water and let dry naturally.

Looking forward to seeing the datum line

Jim


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## Racers (10 Sep 2014)

I have found one old way of attaching brass is by using brass nails, tapered in shape, then look like they when snipped off the same brass sheet hammered in and peened over, they are very hard to see.

Pete


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## swagman (10 Sep 2014)

Racers":1rbzpn5n said:


> I have found one old way of attaching brass is by using brass nails, tapered in shape, then look like they when snipped off the same brass sheet hammered in and peened over, they are very hard to see.
> 
> Pete



Hi Pete. I have used the similar principal in the past on brass soled planes using brass escutcheon nails. A drop of CA adhesive in each of the brass plate holes prior to each nail been driven down. I then file the heads down flush followed by flat sanding over glass. The 2 part epoxy method is certainly a more straight forward approach.

Stewie;


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## Corneel (10 Sep 2014)

Shavings?


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## swagman (10 Sep 2014)

Corneel":h3456004 said:


> Shavings?




That could work Corneel. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (11 Sep 2014)

Sharpened the iron today using my new Fallkniven diamond & ceramic bench stone. I have taken photo's during each stage of the sharpening process and will post them as a review of my results later on. 

Having the iron sharpened also gave me an opportunity to test out the boxed chamfer plane and understand much clearer the way its designed to function. 

Here are some personal observations: 

The depth stop is not an accurate description of its function.. Its real purpose is to provide a platform base for the top surface of the timber to slide on. Not dissimilar to that role served by the bottom sole of a hand plane.

The actual depth of cut is represented by the distance the cutting edge of the iron is set below the bottom of the stop. This depth of cut will remain at a constant up until it starts to reduce which is very close the maximum set point of the chamfer width. 


The final width of chamfer is measured between the V at the same height as the bottom cutting edge. This also represents the height at which the cutting edge stops making further contact with the timber surface. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (11 Sep 2014)

Good description of the functions of this type of plane Stewie!

Look forward to the sharpening review and the shavings!

Cheers

Jimi


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## swagman (11 Sep 2014)

jimi43":24e48ftg said:


> Good description of the functions of this type of plane Stewie!
> 
> Look forward to the sharpening review and the shavings!
> 
> ...



Hi Jimi. I tried the chamfer plane today on some softwoods and hardwoods. On the softwoods If too much set is applied below the bottom of the stop its difficult to avoid dig in early into the chamfer. The hardwoods were okay. The problem as I see it is that the corner edge of the timber lacks the same surface resistance that you would encounter with a flatter timber surface,. As a result a heavier cut is experienced. I am thinking that on the next chamfer plane build I might be better to lower the bed angle from 55 to 50 (York pitch). That should allow the plane to be more user friendly on softwoods but still work fine with the hardwoods. 

Any thoughts on this idea. 

Stewie;

I think I got that right. A lower pitch rather than higher pitch to handle chamfering the softer woods. 

Correct me if I am wrong forum members.


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## jimi43 (11 Sep 2014)

The set only needs to be adequate...the "stop" and iron in concert being set down in the "V" sole to the depth at which the chamfer is needed to stop to create the required amount of bevel.

I never bothered to look before on my old oak one so I decided to see what the pitch was....







...it's 62 degrees....in either digital or analogue..take your pick!

I tried it on oak but haven't had the need to try it on softwood so I will go and do a test and let you know.

Jimi


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## AndyT (11 Sep 2014)

I've just been and measured mine - approx 52 degrees on the one like this with the sliding box. About 42 and 30 degrees on the others. Picture evidence available if wanted - but they are a bit old and scruffy!


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## Corneel (11 Sep 2014)

Mine is 52 degrees. 62 is steep!
I've had loads of trouble with tearout with a user modified (me), single iron, 45 degree woodie with some V-shaped fences nailed to the bottom. Not even a backbevel helped much. I still don't understand that one. My "new" Moseley is much better. Here is a video from me using the plane, maybe that helps a little bit?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChCv9lj8X2M


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## swagman (12 Sep 2014)

Nice work Corneel. 

The technique I found best for me was to start the chamfer an past the starting edge and plane the chamfer until the blade stops cutting, then turn the plane around and finish off the last but of chamfer against the grain. 

I also found that it the board is being held vertical in a vise it was easier to hold the plane so that most of the pressure was side on against the main face rather than over the top against the edge. If the board is laying face up over the bench then the weight would be more downward across the main face rather than side on. 

As part of getting used the chamfer plane I think part of the problem I was having with the softer woods was due to having too much initial set on the iron. If I had less set as it looks like you have done within the video the 55 degree bed would be fine.

Is there a chance you could try your chamfer plane on a soft wood and let me know if you found the results satisfactory. That feedback would help as a lot to better understand my current set up. 

regards; Stewie. 

ps. I am a little envious to the fact that you, Andy, and Jimi already have your Simon Barley book to read while I am still waiting for mine to arrive in the mail.


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## Corneel (12 Sep 2014)

swagman":zhzhhxo7 said:


> ps. I am a little envious to the fact that you, Andy, and Jimi already have your Simon Barley book to read while I am still waiting for mine to arrive in the mail.



Ha, maybe you should move to more reachable parts of the globe :mrgreen: 

I'll give it a try this weekend. I have plenty of spruce construction wood around at the moment.


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## jimi43 (12 Sep 2014)

I did a test on rubbish white wood from B&Q this morning and it worked fine...







No tearout even when I took quite a coarse shaving. (what looks like rubbish this end is my fault!)

This at 62 degrees so to conclude...it works fine on softwood (firewood) and hardwood (English oak)

Jimi


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## swagman (12 Sep 2014)

Thanks for that Jimi. I assume you had a fairly fine set on the iron. 

Its dawning on me that the problems I experienced with chamfering the soft wood was primarily due to me putting too much set on the iron. Touch over 2mm. 

regards; Stewie.


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## jimi43 (12 Sep 2014)

swagman":37kmdcsp said:


> Thanks for that Jimi. I assume you had a fairly fine set on the iron.
> 
> Its dawning on me that the problems I experienced with chamfering the soft wood was primarily due to me putting too much set on the iron. Touch over 2mm.
> 
> regards; Stewie.



Well I wouldn't exactly call it a fine shaving Stewie but it sure as hell ain't 2mm. That would be a scrub chamfer wouldn't it mate! :mrgreen: 

One of the actual shavings I took can be seen in the above picture.

Cheers

Jimi


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## swagman (12 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. The generous set on the chamfer plane was all part of learning how these type of planes work. Much the wiser now. 

Cheers Stewie;


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

swagman":27mix9uy said:


> Hi Jimi. The generous set on the chamfer plane was all part of learning how these type of planes work. Much the wiser now.
> 
> Cheers Stewie;



That's a relief!

It's looking very promising mate.

Jimi


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. I am currently doing the final fettling of the plane and what's obvious due to the stringy nature of the shavings, a generous clearance from the mouth and throat is a requirement. 

All good fun. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

An opportunity for further discussion and feedback. 

To create a good chamfered edge of equal proportion along the full length a basic requirement is that the full length of the hand planes sole needs to remain in good contact with the edge being worked. By doing so your able to keep the cutting edge of the iron at a constant depth of cut. 

Now lets look at the basic set up of the boxed chamfer plane. 





You will note that the length of the stop at its base only represents about 1/3rd of the soles total length.

When the base of the stop is set at or above the top point of the planes V sole the edge of the board is able to make contact along the full length of the sole. 

As this base is then moved down to a level below the top point of the V sole the boards edge now only rests on the stops base. 1/3rd the total length of the sole. 

This creates an unhealthy condition where the plane is now able to rock forward or back as its moved along cutting the chamfered edge. 

The most prominent areas of this rocking motion being the very start of the chamfer or the very end of the chamfer. Noticeable by resulting overcut. 

Those that have used a boxed chamfer plane in the past will be aware of what I am talking about. 

Its relevant to note that the further the base is set below the top point of the V sole the greater the level of rocking achievable. 


Now. A possible solution. 

Instead of moving the stop to change the width of chamfer why not keep the stop set at the same height as the top point of the V sole and just adjust the cutting edge incrementally lower to control the width of chamfer.

By my calculations if a 12mm chamfer was the maximum requirement needed then that would see the cutting edge at around 5mm below the top point of the V. 

At that depth of set the back of the iron is still well seated within its bed, allowing such issues as chattering to still be avoided.

As an added benefit the sides of the boards edge being chamfered are also making full contact with the sides of the V sole which will add even great value to the stability of the plane during chamfering. 

What I am suggesting may sound a slightly unconventional approach to those that are traditionalists at heart but if can have a some bearing on the consistent quality of the final chamfers outcome and make it much easier for the user to control the plane's movement then I think its a worthy consideration to take on board. 

Now its over to you guys for your thoughts and feedback.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

I'm probably reading this wrong but what you're suggesting seems to be to disable the stop and then increase the depth of cut to enable different chamfer sizes.

If this is the case then this is not how the device works. The idea is that the box stop prevents the cut from being too coarse by lowering the amount of effective depth of cut whilst allowing the shavings to be smoothly removed. As the chamfer deepens the cut remains the same but the shavings get wider. 

This carries on until the sides of the V actually make contact with the side and face of the stock at which point the chamfer is done.

I find (as with a lot of woodies), that starting the cut at the end of the stock and working progressively backwards initially starts the cut and as you progress through the depth of cut then you can take progressively longer cuts...as is the case with a rebate plane.

I tend to let the blade exposure measure about 1/2 mm and if you look at the bottom shot I took of mine...






...the mouth is irrelevant as it is huge.

This way the cut is not too aggressive and the resultant chamfer is smooth...






I don't put much pressure on the plane throughout the entire process...keep it in one hand and keep it level yourself...the actual rocking is evident but is not an issue as the final cut is the one that matters as then the sole is in total contact with the wood and the chamfer becomes regular...all previous deviations being rectified with this last pass.

The iron has to be very sharp to get the fine cut though...how did it go with the Fallkniven stone?

Jim


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. The Fallsniven stone did a great job resulting in the iron being razor sharp. 

I am aware of how the stop is meant to function. The issue I am raising is that as soon as you adjust the stop below the top V of the sole the edge of the timber is only being supported by the stop meaning 2/3rds of the sole are making no contact with the edge of the timber until you reach the full set depth of chamfer. This small area of contact across the bottom of the stop does make it more difficult to stop the plane from tipping forwards or backwards especially at the start and finish of the full chamfer. 

What I am suggesting is: if you were to leave the stop locked at the top V height you could effectively just rely on just tapping the cutting iron a little further down after each time the cutter makes no further contact with the timber edge. Its not overly difficult to do. Just give the top of the iron a light tap down followed by another tap on the top of the wedge and your ready for your next run. Each change in depth has a doubling effect on the width of the chamfer. 

This would generate a much more stable base for the plane to move across the timber edge, and greatly prevent the likelihood of the plane tipping forward or back at each end of the chamfer. 

If you look at the previous photo you when you chamfering the soft pine. The wider chamfer on the nearest end is of the timber edge is where the chamfer has been overcut. Likely caused by the front of the plane tipping forward. 

I am suggesting an optional approach and that's open for general discussion. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. Let me explain it slightly differently. If you were to retract the iron and stop so its their above the top of the V. You then place the V sole onto the 90* edge of the timber. The sides of the V would easily remain in full contact with the timbers edge as you moved along the full length of the timbers edge. Now add a small amount of cutting edge to the equation. There should still be no loss of contact with the sides of the V sole as the start of the chamfer is being cut. Add slightly more cutting depth. You should still have good contact while and gaining a slightly wider chamfer. All done without the risking of overcut. 

Good value topic. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

That end damage was already a chip which broke off when I got to the end...rubbish wood basically.

I am off to work now so will do another clean chopped piece when I get a chance (probably tomorrow).

I personally don't see it as an issue and if I read you right it kind of negates the purpose of the stop...so it would be redundant.

I might be misunderstanding completely so do tell me if I am.

Jimi


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. I went back and looked at Corneel in action with his box chamfer plane. I just noticed how he keeps one side of the V sole hard against the widest side of the board being chamfered. That may make a big difference to controlling the plane. I am going to try that technique tomorrow. 

Stewie;


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## JohnPW (13 Sep 2014)

I don't have a chamfer plane, so I have to visualise how a chamfer plane works. I suppose one way is to keep one side of the V against the workpiece, which acts as the fence. You then take shavings, their thickness depends on how far the blade is advanced, the part of the plane the blade is set in is in fact the sole of the plane. As you take the final shaving, the other V side (acts as the stop) will meet the workpiece.

Or you could just keep the plane centred on the corner of the workpiece and take shavings without the sides of the V touching the workpiece. I guess it would help if there was a sole behind the blade as well as in front of it, but maybe it just works well enough just with a sole in front, as shown in the photos upthread.


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## swagman (13 Sep 2014)

Hi John. Thanks for that. Good value in the sketches you did. I have been trying to keep the plane centred on the corner of the work piece clear of the both sides of the V and it just unreliable that way, resulting in overcut on each end of the chamfered edge. 

The way you have shown it within your sketch would be much more reliable way of using the chamfer plane and a much more efficient way to control the plane.

I noticed when I went back and watched Corneel using the chamfer plane within the short video he was doing it the way you have drawn it. 

There is little historical information on the correct use of a boxed chamfer plane so there's been a lot of guess work on my behalf. 

Thanks to the input from yourself, Corneel, and Jimi, I am now much the wiser.

Thank you all for your assistance. 

regards Stewie;


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## jimi43 (13 Sep 2014)

I may be wrong Stewie but you version looked like it had a narrower "V" than mine...the one I have goes virtually to the wall.

A narrower v sole will certainly not aid stability.

Can you confirm.

Jim


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. The V is 30mm at it widest point. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (14 Sep 2014)

swagman":10xm7qeo said:


> Hi Jimi. The V is 30mm at it widest point.
> 
> Stewie;



Hi Stewie

I just got in from work and my one is out in the workshop so I will look tomorrow but the width on mine goes out almost to the sides so I am guessing it's a lot wider.

I will let you know tomorrow...have to hit the sack as working tomorrow too.

Cheers my friend

Jimi


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. When you wake up you will have some interesting photo's to look at.

The following is the completed boxed chamfer plane. Its had it last coat of shellac and received its final sanding. I will need to wait a couple of days to allow the shellac to harden before I can add some shine to it. 

When chamfering the edge the shavings tend to be quite stringy in form. As such the boxed chamfer plane does requires a fairly generous mouth opening to allow these shavings to pass through unabated to the throat area. 

I have also added a brass piece between the upper tines of the wooden box to prevent later inward creep. An issue I noticed on some of the earlier made chamfer planes of this type. 
I added a bevel the lower edge of the brass brace to deflect the shaving.. 

And lastly a brass impact area on the back end of the plane to save damaging the wood surface. 

















Now for testing the chamfer plane out on some Australian Blackwood and some Cumquats grained Cypress. The stop was set for a 12mm wide chamfered and the cutting irons cutting edge set at around 0.5mm . 


















The 2 chamfers looked very good on consistent width and clean cut finish. 

regards Stewie;


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

What's in the wooden box your asking. 

A set of small knives blades I purchased a few years ago from a knife making supplier. The handles and storage box I made myself. Handles are Tas.Myrtle and the box is made from Tas.Blackwood. The top of the box has been grain scored with a toothing plane. The knife guards are made from hardened cow hide. 









This knife is the one I prefer to use for inlay work. 





Stewie;


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## jimi43 (14 Sep 2014)

I love the final touches and the overall plane sticks quite closely to the traditional with the flare of the modern once again.

It's a bit late in the day but I have confirmed that the "V" is almost totally the width of the sole...







Of 50mm....the "V" maximum width is 40mm so a lot wider.

As I say..this will give a larger area for stability.

I know you make a few of these planes once the prototype is completed so this may be a thought for MkII.

Just for completeness...these are the other dimensions in both planes (ha!)....











That adds context.

Love the plane mate...up to your usual meticulous standards.

The knives are pretty cool too...not sure about the width of the handles but beautifully made.

Jim


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## Corneel (14 Sep 2014)

Mine is 44 mm wide at the deepest point. it works on spruce too, but when I have a knot in the edge I do get teraout on one side or the other.

When you make a plane like this, don't make it with the blade hold on with two screws like mine! When I set it to a thick shaving, the blade is being pulled down, resulting in a mess. I can only take fairly light shavings. A wedge seems like a lot better arangement to me.

Mine also chatters on a thick shaving.


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## jimi43 (14 Sep 2014)

Corneel":2knk0w6q said:


> Mine is 44 mm wide at the deepest point. it works on spruce too, but when I have a knot in the edge I do get teraout on one side or the other.
> 
> When you make a plane like this, don't make it with the blade hold on with two screws like mine! When I set it to a thick shaving, the blade is being pulled down, resulting in a mess. I can only take fairly light shavings. A wedge seems like a lot better arangement to me.
> 
> Mine also chatters on a thick shaving.



When I originally bought the plane, I couldn't get my head around the wedge/iron/stop combination in setting it and now it's second nature but I have to say...there is a lot more to the geometry of these things than meets the eye.

I don't envy you taking this on Stewie...but this is a very common addition to the finishing of a lot of furniture and tools and so I think the need to the "perfect" tool to do the job is ever present.

This should sell very well...and it's great the way you have stepped through the traditional design and questioned each step.

It makes us all look at the tools we take for granted more closely and wonder at the skills of those old craftsmen.

=D> =D> 

Jimi


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

Thanks Jimi. I found the best way for me to control the chamfer plane was to keep the bottom bevel of the V pressed lightly against the vertical face of the board with the fingers holding the extended across top side of the plane to allow the fingertips to rest across the top edge of the board. As you slide the plane along the fingertips resting across the top edge of the board as well as the bottom bevel of the plane pressed lightly against the vertical face of the board act to keep the plane tracking nicely across the chamfer being formed. 

If a further light single shave is required along the chamfer the easiest way was to give the top of the iron a light tap and the result should give you a very fine curly wisp of shave. 

The best of the early craftsmen were certainly very gifted individuals. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (14 Sep 2014)

Corneel":2t8tgw90 said:


> Mine is 44 mm wide at the deepest point. it works on spruce too, but when I have a knot in the edge I do get teraout on one side or the other.
> 
> When you make a plane like this, don't make it with the blade hold on with two screws like mine! When I set it to a thick shaving, the blade is being pulled down, resulting in a mess. I can only take fairly light shavings. A wedge seems like a lot better arangement to me.
> 
> Mine also chatters on a thick shaving.



That's a shame Corneel. The idea of being able to independently lock the blade in position as yours does has some real merit. But it would certainly be a much better design if a wedge was then followed up to insure the full length of the blade was pressed hard up against the bed. Might be a nice little project for you. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (21 Sep 2014)

Finally got around to sizing the wooden parts required to make another 4 box chamfer planes. Once these are completed I wont be making any more.

The body and stops are Merbau while the wooden wedges will be in Jarrah.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (21 Sep 2014)

Oooooh! Jarrah! 

I loooove Jarrah!!

And a nice piece of scrap brass there for the soles! Wonderful! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## jimi43 (21 Sep 2014)

Seriously though for a moment (as if!)....I would definitely make the next one with a wider "V" almost to the sides to see if this makes for even better stability....I think it will.

Jimi


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## swagman (21 Sep 2014)

Hi Jimi. That's already part of the plan with these chamfer planes. I am aiming for about 1/8" of flat each side of the V. The body of the plane is 46mm wide. 

Most of the labour time involved is focused on mortising out the body to receive the boxed stop. The tolerances are pretty tight in order to achieve a nice slide fit. It does require the use of chalk to highlight the tight areas. Its a good idea to turn on the radio on and listen to some music to help pass the time involved. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (21 Sep 2014)

swagman":comk3p8e said:


> Hi Jimi. That's already part of the plan with these chamfer planes. I am aiming for about 1/8" of flat each side of the V. The body of the plane is 46mm wide.
> 
> Most of the labour time involved is focused on mortising out the body to receive the boxed stop. The tolerances are pretty tight in order to achieve a nice slide fit. It does require the use of chalk to highlight the tight areas. Its a good idea to turn on the radio on and listen to some music to help pass the time involved.
> 
> Stewie;



Thought you might...nice one!

I got SPOTIFY...best thing I ever did...now I can find obscure albums I'd quite forgotten about as a teenager!

Cheers

Jimi


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## swagman (21 Sep 2014)

jimi43":2wepqouk said:


> swagman":2wepqouk said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Jimi. That's already part of the plan with these chamfer planes. I am aiming for about 1/8" of flat each side of the V. The body of the plane is 46mm wide.
> ...



You might enjoy this one Jimi 

http://thenostalgiamachine.com/index.html


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## jimi43 (21 Sep 2014)

Sadly it doesn't go back far enough Stewie! 

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## swagman (21 Sep 2014)

jimi43":1jhwsyfs said:


> Sadly it doesn't go back far enough Stewie!
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
> 
> Jimi



Is this more in aligment with you D.O.B. :norm: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNB8VbFm ... HcunREYzNY


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## swagman (3 Oct 2014)

Completing the mortise clean out on the 4th boxed chamfer body.





The previous 3 plane bodies after the mortise has been totally cleaned out and sealed with a coat of shellac. 









Stewie;


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## swagman (3 Oct 2014)

To accurately describe how much fun it is to mortise these plane bodies out; "imagine watching a 3 legged tortoise compete in a 20k marathon, from the very start to when it crosses the finish line. ](*,) 

Stewie;


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## swagman (11 Oct 2014)

The mortise fit for the sliding depth stop as well as the V shaped sole have been completed on all 4 chamfer planes.

Stewie;


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## swagman (20 Oct 2014)

Further progress ongoing.

Stewie;


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## tobytools (23 Oct 2014)

not sure how i missed this thread. 
beautiful work, I've had the pleasure to use the toothing plane, many thanks jimi. and if thats anything to go by then i would bet my last £ that this too will be a superb tool.
keep it up.

TT


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## swagman (25 Oct 2014)

Thanks Toby. I am looking forward to completing this project. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (7 Nov 2014)

Hi all. As you will note from the attached photo's I am still making reasonable progress on the batch of box chamfer plane builds. 











Still to complete. (in sequential order).


Cut the tines out on the wooden wedges;
Fit the outer brass keeper plates to the height adjuster;
Fit the brass sole plates on the bottom of the box;
Final shaping to the top of the plane bodies as well as complete the chamfering;
Fit strike buttons on the back end of the plane bodies;
Sharpen the irons up;
Test each plane and fine tune if required;
Apply 2 more coats of garnet shellac finish;

and the lastly- stamp the front end of the plane bodies with a makers mark;


Stewie; #-o


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## Ed Bray (7 Nov 2014)

First time I've looked in this thread and very impressed with your work. Absolutely brilliant. =D> 

I suspect these tools will last for many years. =D>


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## swagman (7 Nov 2014)

Thanks Ed. I am hopeful these planes will outlast me. 

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (7 Nov 2014)

Anyone thinking of treating themselves or loved ones for Christmas could do far worse than to invest in one of Stewie's masterpieces!

I got one of his toothing plane and without exception...everyone who has used it give very glowing reports!

You don't have to ask how much work goes into each plane and the attention to detail since the entire process is published here...warts an' all...and there aren't many of them I can see!!

So if you're looking for a traditional tool of heirloom quality....you're sorted!

Nice one mate!! =D> 

Jim

p.s....now what IS the collective noun for a group of chamfer planes...A CORNER of chamfers...there ya go!!! :mrgreen:


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## jimi43 (7 Nov 2014)

jimi43":2ddsgtgy said:


> Anyone thinking of treating themselves or loved ones for Christmas could do far worse than to invest in one of Stewie's masterpieces!
> 
> I got one of his toothing plane and without exception...everyone who has used it gave very glowing reports!
> 
> ...


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## swagman (13 Nov 2014)

The wooden wedges are now complete. I decided to skip installing the brass inlays for now and focus on shaping the top of the plane bodies.

Here is a disassembled view, with a start made on reshaping the top.





Here you can see a completed top. Quite a nice transformation.









Stewie;


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## jimi43 (13 Nov 2014)

Very elegant and classy bit of craftsmanship there mate!

I am particularly pleased by the discussion this thread has generated along with others being encouraged to make their own planes. Your openness has encouraged this and should be applauded.

Nice one! =D> 

Jim


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## swagman (13 Nov 2014)

Thanks Jimi.


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## tobytools (14 Nov 2014)

i agree with jim. 
thanks for sharing and giving the push in the right direction.. 
i not far offf making a plane 

TT


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## swagman (14 Nov 2014)

That's great news Toby. =D>


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## swagman (8 Dec 2014)

Brass keeper plates for the box depth adjusters have been installed.
Brass sole plates fitted.
Final coat of garnet shellac applied. 









Still to complete:

Sharpen irons up.
Test each plane for performance.
Stamp makers mark.
Replace current fiber washers with a smaller size. (order completed)
Complete a final buff to the shellac finish after 7 days of hardening.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (8 Dec 2014)

They are looking the bee's knees Stewie!!

I think the difference between the many old ones and your version is that you have taken the time to study the action of this plane in detail and discussed it here where each iterative step has been taken onboard and refinements made.

In my comparative study of the toothing plane I got from you and an old Victorian one...







...these refinements proved that although they both did the same job but your one did is much better in a number of ways.

I have written a review on a new thread as I think it's important to understand why the care you take will result in measurable improvements to the original designs and your tools are not just cosmetically beautiful.

CLICKITY CLICK

Thanks again for continuing the tradition...and for spending the time to share and discuss your designs. =D> =D> 

Jimi


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## swagman (8 Dec 2014)

Thanks Jimi. The review is greatly appreciated. Lets all hope that these types of traditional skills continue to remain relevant into the foreseeable future.

regards; Stewie.


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## swagman (18 Dec 2014)

Hi all. Finally finished working on the 4 box chamfer planes. All tested for performance and passed with flying colors.

Stewie;


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## jimi43 (18 Dec 2014)

CLASS! Pure CLASS!

Resist...only a week till Christmas...must resist!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi

BTW Stewie..that bit of wood's got a crack in it...did you notice? LOL!


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## swagman (19 Dec 2014)

Thanks Jimi. I did notice the crack. 

Stewie;


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## swagman (19 Dec 2014)

Hi Jimi. What pleases me the most is that I have been able to put together some small design improvements and not overly impact this type of planes historical appearance. 

Stewie


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## jimi43 (19 Dec 2014)

swagman":1ckfid13 said:


> Hi Jimi. What pleases me the most is that I have been able to put together some small design improvements and not overly impact this type of planes historical appearance.
> 
> Stewie



As I found in the toothing plane.

It is the subtle but important differences and the way you logically thought through them which adds innovation to an age-old art.

I don't care a hoot what people say about these planes having reached their zenith long ago...

What actually happened is the metal-bodied planes came in and innovation was focussed on them and the wooden plane went slowly into decline though thankfully, not to extinction.

Improvements would have carried on, and thanks to craftsmen like you, now are.

I love the fact that hand tools, and in particular old designs are coming back into fashion in a big way now. There is something serene about them...like infills they have mojo!

Thanks for the journey..it was fun!

Jimi


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