# Quangsheng Shoulder Plane Passaround



## matthewwh (28 Jun 2014)

This is a passaround for the new Quangsheng Luban No.92 Shoulder Plane.

We send out a brand new plane to the first person, when they have finished trying it out, they pop it in the post to the next person and they have a go with it for a few days, two or three ideally to keep things rolling along. 

Post your thoughts, photos, reviews etc on this thread, and when you are finished, you post it on to the next person. 

Recorded delivery please. 
In fairness to the other participants, please keep it to UK areas served by Royal Mail first and second class post.
The passaround is open to all current forum members as of 28/6/14.

If you'd like to take part, just copy and paste the list into your reply and add your username at the bottom, then send a private message with your real name and address to the person before you.

Here's the start of the list:

*Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...*


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## tobytools (28 Jun 2014)

Just like to say thank you Mathew, 
Details sent to Marcros.

TT


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## marcros (28 Jun 2014)

Received Toby. I will PM my details to Matthew shortly.


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## G S Haydon (28 Jun 2014)

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon


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## CStanford (28 Jun 2014)

I don't suppose this would apply to customers in the United States....

Edit, I see that it does not.


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## Glynne (29 Jun 2014)

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon
Glynne


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## Tony Zaffuto (29 Jun 2014)

Nice to see a vendor do this and as already mentioned, it would be nice to see some dealers doing this in the states. I certainly would like to try some of the brands constantly bashed over here, such as Woodriver, the new Stanley or the Kunz Premium line.


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## Mike.S (29 Jun 2014)

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon
Glynne
Mike S


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## fluffflinger (29 Jun 2014)

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon
Glynne
Mike S
Fluffflinger

Matthew if this is too many let me know.


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## DiscoStu (30 Jun 2014)

What a great idea! Trusting of a supplier, but also a great way to get people interested in a product as well as getting it promoted. Best of all, it shows that the supplier has faith in their product to start with.


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## Noggsy (30 Jun 2014)

If this is still open then;

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon
Glynne
Mike S
Flufflinger
Noggsy


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## marcros (5 Jul 2014)

I have just received the plane. I will have a go with it and get it in the post to Toby on Tuesday. 

Mark


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## DannyJH (6 Jul 2014)

Matthewwh, have you any information on the possibility of a smaller model by Quangsheng ?


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## matthewwh (6 Jul 2014)

Hi Danny, 

I can ask them, what size did you have in mind?


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## Ed Bray (6 Jul 2014)

I did something similar on a photography forum with a large number of original DVDs of photographic interest, they did the rounds for over 5 years with most people keeping them for about 2 weeks each, they only returned home a little the worst for wear a couple of weeks ago.

Whilst I would like to have taken part, I am not really conversant enough with hand tools to make a valued judgment, but I will certainly watch the replies in this thread with interest.


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## marcros (6 Jul 2014)

Ed,

Nor am I so don't worry. I think that I may be in the market for a shoulder plane and am using this to see whether it will do the job that I have in mind for it. I don't have any other shoulder planes (nor have used one) so my criteria are:

1. If I had paid for this plane would I be happy with what I received and 
2. Will it do what I need it to or would a different plane suit better. 

Don't be put off if you fancy having a go with it- all you need to do is cut a tenon, rebate etc for it to be tried in anger.


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## DannyJH (6 Jul 2014)

Matthewwh , A plane in comparable size to the Clifton No 410 would be ideal.


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## marcros (6 Jul 2014)

marcros":20bg9qe2 said:


> Ed,
> 
> Nor am I so don't worry. I think that I may be in the market for a shoulder plane and am using this to see whether it will do the job that I have in mind for it. I don't have any other shoulder planes (nor have used one) so my criteria are:
> 
> ...



Well, I have had a good play with this plane, and am ready to send it on to Toby. I am not going to I a full review because I have nothing to compare it to. 

This is my first quangsheng plane. I have seven old stanley/records and a little LN block plane. As received the plane was new and the quality was very good. I didn't particularly like the black areas on it but that was more aesthetics than anything else. If I had spent my hard earned cash on this I would be quite happy with what I received and if I was looking for a new plane I would certainly look at the quangsheng range. 

The reason that I wanted to borrow this plane was to try using it for cleaning up rebates on some boxes that I have planned. I have started one over the last couple of days to try this out. For this task, the plane was too large and a bit heavy for one handed use. This I suspect was my own fault and it was never designed for such- but such is life. I also tried it on a larger rebate where it was certainly impressive in its performance. 

I think that I am going to have a look at the clifton 400 as an alternative, or the veritas miniature shoulder plane. For the jobs that I typically make these smaller scale planes will be more appropriate (I think) and will still be able to tackle the odd bigger job that I need it for. 

Thank you for the pass around Matthew. 

Mark


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## marcros (8 Jul 2014)

Toby

The plane is on its way to you by recorded delivery- I have put it in its original packaging and all into a mailing bag. I have chucked a couple of spare bags in, in case you need one to forward it on- not everybody has packaging to hand! It has been sent second class recorded so will need a signature.

mark


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## morfa (8 Jul 2014)

If I could be added to the list that would be wonderful. I was in the last Paring Chisel pass-around and that was very useful.


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## Ed Bray (8 Jul 2014)

marcros":32axnaqk said:


> Ed,
> 
> Nor am I so don't worry. I think that I may be in the market for a shoulder plane and am using this to see whether it will do the job that I have in mind for it. I don't have any other shoulder planes (nor have used one) so my criteria are:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestion Mark,

I have a little Anant Bull Nose plane that I bought from Rutlands, it seems okay but have never used it in anger. All my rebates are cut mechanically and going forward (if I can persuade my wife) my tenons will be cut using a Festool Domino Jointer. I do a test piece first so any irregularities are checked out first and then I run the work piece. I have very little (if any) cleaning up to do afterwards.

I'm not sure how mush benefit I would get from trying out the plane, I am not used to sharpening plane irons, I have had a no 4 plane for years that I could never get to work properly (I only found out this week that the plane iron was in upside down), funnily enough it cuts very nicely now :lol:


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## tobytools (8 Jul 2014)

marcros":2f7hf744 said:


> Toby
> 
> The plane is on its way to you by recorded delivery- I have put it in its original packaging and all into a mailing bag. I have chucked a couple of spare bags in, in case you need one to forward it on- not everybody has packaging to hand! It has been sent second class recorded so will need a signature.
> 
> mark



Thanks mate, I appreciate the packaging  very kind of you.
Look forwards to having an go with this plane. My next post will be my short review. I only have 2 shoulder planes to compare it to and some basic experience with other models.
I'll give my honest opinion.

Thanks again Mathew, a gentlemen as allways

Plane recieved today. I'll have a play tonight, but tomorrow is when I will really use it.

TT


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## tobytools (12 Jul 2014)

hi gents ive had a good play with this plane cleaning up some rebates, 
to start i have used various shoulder from low to high end, today i also used my verities medium and infill shoulder and a wooden one so i could get a feel for the differences.

first impressions when i got this shinny bit of kid out is i liked it a lot, on closer examination i found it a bit disappointing. the chamfering seemed a tad inconsistent. where the black finish is on the main body there is a sharp lip to the body of the plane, not bad but was unpleasant to know it was there, that said the adjusting mechanising is really very good and as most will know almost every feature on this plane is copied from others. 
FUNCTIONALLY THIS PLANE IS EXCELLENT, worked a treat, good weight.. sadly i won't be purchasing this as i feel a original record shoulder can be had in near mint con for half the price of that in question as is a better tool suited to my likes and dislikes, maby im just a cheap ass. tho i dout it.

the fact that this is a foreign plane has no part to play in my dislike for it, i own the QS block that Matthew stocks.
i will recommend this shoulder plane to any who wants a great tool that preforms just as goos as the £££ and vintage ones. and when im at collage i will be mentioning this product to those who a seeking a good shoulder.

plane 7/10
if my opinion on this product has upset anyone i can only apologise. 
thank you mathew for the chance to have a play with this,

ill post to the next in line monday morning, recorded delivery.

many thanks
TT


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## andys wood shed (12 Jul 2014)

I had a look at the new WoodRiver shoulder plane today and was very impressed with the quality well worth a look in my opinion


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## tobytools (14 Jul 2014)

I haven't had a chance to post today but I will tomorrow 100% sorry to slow things down. Having a few problem at my end..

TT


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## G S Haydon (16 Jul 2014)

Just had confirmation that the plane will be with me tomorrow, all things being equal.


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## bugbear (16 Jul 2014)

G S Haydon":1xo2igjr said:


> Just had confirmation that the plane will be with me tomorrow, all things being equal.



Await your views with interest.

BugBear


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## G S Haydon (16 Jul 2014)

Cheers, I must admit BB, I have fears of my "views" being torn asunder, never mind, I'll give it a go!


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## morfa (17 Jul 2014)

To put my name on the list:

Workshop Heaven
Marcros
Tobytools...
G S Haydon
Glynne
Mike S
Flufflinger
Noggsy
Morfa

As I'm the last person on the list (and if it stays that way) then I'll drop the plane off in Banbury when I'm passing, as I have family nearby.


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## G S Haydon (18 Jul 2014)

It's arrived this very moment and will be posted on again on Monday


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## tobytools (18 Jul 2014)

G S Haydon":75ojmqye said:


> It's arrived this very moment and will be posted on again on Monday


Glad it arrived safely mate, I was starting to get worried that I got lost  

Look forwards to your review 
TT


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## G S Haydon (20 Jul 2014)

Had a couple of evenings at the bench with the plane, photos, write up and video to follow. In the post to tomorrow.


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## Eric The Viking (21 Jul 2014)

Whilst at Peter Sefton's do, I spent a bit of time comparing QS and Wood River planes. Peter was kind enough (patient enough!) to point out some of the differences between similar planes from the two brands.

The shoulder ones are very similar, the differences being (as far as I can tell) only the shape of the blackened recesses in the body casting. I think there was a slightly nicer finish to the Wood River version, but it's marginal.

Personally, I really liked the weight of the bigger WR shoulder plane - a good compromise between 'heft' and being too big. It's now on my Christmas list.

The differences between the two low-angle smoothers is striking. It is evident that the Wood River one has had more thought applied. It's obviously based on the QS original, but crucial bits like the casting, the method of iron depth adjustment, etc. are obviously Wood River specials, and show thought and care on their part.

In summary, both seem good, but I lean slightly in favour of the Wood River ones for quality. If someone gave me a QS, however (for example at Christmas ;-) ), I'd still be delighted!

E.


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## G S Haydon (21 Jul 2014)

Here is the video, photos and write up to follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvD78bc ... N6dlbXU0mw

Can anyone help me with embedding videos? I don't like to direct traffic away from the forum.


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## tobytools (21 Jul 2014)

G S Haydon":s8aiyeew said:


> Here is the video, photos and write up to follow.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvD78bc ... N6dlbXU0mw
> 
> Can anyone help me with embedding videos? I don't like to direct traffic away from the forum.



Great review mate, like all you videos a pleasure to watch.
I'm glad someone else thought the edges where to sharp.
For nearly a Oner I think better can be had.

Thanks 
TT


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## G S Haydon (21 Jul 2014)

Thanks Toby!


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## Paul Chapman (21 Jul 2014)

Good video, Graham. Thanks for taking the trouble to post it.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## G S Haydon (21 Jul 2014)

No trouble Paul, thanks for watching it.


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## bugbear (22 Jul 2014)

tobytools":2n6dbfwk said:


> For nearly a Oner I think better can be had.



Not new, I don't think, unless you can point it out to me.

BugBear


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## woodbrains (22 Jul 2014)

Hello,

The first two things I would have looked at in a shoulder plane, no reviewer so far has mentioned. Does the rear sole remain co-planar with the front, when the lever is tensioned to hold the blade? Often the fine wedge of the sole deflects under tension and needs correcting. Indeed, does the sole remain co-planar, when the mouth adjustment is moved back and forth? And the second, Is the blade the correct width for the body? They are often left a bit wide and need sizing, or else they have to be shifted side to side, to suit the side of the plane being used. For best, the blades should be a couple of thou wider each side, no more.

Graham, I think your presentation on the video was fabulous, you seem to have a natural affinity towards the camera!

Mike.


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## G S Haydon (22 Jul 2014)

Thank you Mike, it's a shame I have a face for radio :lol:. That's a fair point on the sole flatness. It looked flat enough and it planed straight and true. I will confess I'm not a feeler gauge kind of person with my woodworking and anything I have to measure flatness would not be a good enough bench mark. Bottom line is both planes made an sharp accurate shoulder with no gaps. Also the blade was just slightly proud as you would expect and enabled me to get the results I needed.


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## Glynne (22 Jul 2014)

No pressure on me then!
Not sure about my wife's ability with a video and with my scouse accent everyone might need sub-titles - so I think I might just stick to a post with maybe a couple of pictures.
I have both a surface plate and proper straight edge so I'll try and check for co-planar with and without tension.
Having had more expert reviews I think I'll probably go for the agricultural view, which may not be that helpful but will at least be different.


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## G S Haydon (22 Jul 2014)

It went out first class signed for yesterday afternoon Glynne. Nice to hear you have some way of testing things I could not.


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## tobytools (22 Jul 2014)

bugbear":129ilfju said:


> tobytools":129ilfju said:
> 
> 
> > For nearly a Oner I think better can be had.
> ...



True about the new comment. 

A mini veritas can be had for less than a Oner 
So can new old stock woodies. 
So can foreign shoulder. 
Faithful do a combo one for less.
There is a few about.

I could make you a NEW wooden shoulder for £99 if you like. I accept payments by PayPal 

Lol
TT


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## Glynne (22 Jul 2014)

Graham, 
The plane arrived late this morning thank you.
A bit surreal in terms of talking about checking flatness with surface plates etc as I was swinging a pick axe at the time it arrived, but I will hopefully get down to the workshop tomorrow.
My wife was very impressed with your video and is now keen for me to do one - more to have a laugh at my expense rather than any great contribution to woodworking!


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## Mr_P (22 Jul 2014)

Not sure if this is the same spec as the one Mr Haydon uses in his excellent video.

£50* for a Stanley Tools No.92 Sweetheart Premium Shoulder Plane.

http://www.tradetoolshop.com/stanley-to ... plane.html

* Special offer only 2 left

Never used this firm or tool so don't blame me if it's rubbish.


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## G S Haydon (22 Jul 2014)

Good to know it got there glynee. Why not give a video a shot, it's quite easy these days. I did my early that are no longer listed on a smart phone. Nice to know I satisfy a wide demographic too 

Mr_P yes that is the Stanley, comfort in use is it's strong point, quality of finish perhaps not. Reasonably good value at that price too.


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## G S Haydon (22 Jul 2014)

First of all thank you Matthew for offering this tool around. It's a very refreshing way for potential customers to get to grips with a new offering. 

On the perhaps pointless level of vanity I think the thing looks good.






The finish is generally very high, they only issue I had was the sharp edges on the black areas. Not sure I've captured it well but hopefully you can see the light bouncing on the edges. I'm not sure how that can be sorted at the factory. Matthew mentioned his Clifton was the same so spending more might not get rid of the issue. The Stanley I own has a poor surface finish that almost sets my teeth on edge with it's texture. However it does not have edges that cause me any discomfort.











The cutting iron is the lovely simple high carbon steel that gets sharp, really nice and sharp. Having tools with simple steels that get wicked sharp is something I prefer. My previous experience with QS steel was great. I did not have the tool long enough to learn everything about it but I have no reason to expect it to be poor in the long term.
The only issue I had was the cutting iron did not present square in the mouth. I just needed to hone it slightly off which seemed to cure it just fine. I should of checked and found out where the root cause was but my fix worked which was good enough for me.






Mike made a valid point on checking the sole. Just to stress again I don't own anything accurate enough to measure this. However I tend to be more of a use it and if it' aint broke don't fix it camp. Pleasingly the plane was not in the "broke" camp. Also the cutting iron projects enough each side to enable me to use a shoulder plane as I like to.

It has an adjustable mouth which I think is just fine, not something I look for but I guess to match up with the typical features of modern shoulder planes it is reasonable to add it. The adjustment is easy to use so no worries here. The removal of the blade is nice and easy too requiring just the rotation of the nut, no screwdrivers needed, unlike the Stanley which seems fussy.











A side note, the luban mouth screw does not look great, I'm happy to pay for a new one. Perhaps Matthew could confirm if that was my work.

I'm not sure if it's me being used to the Stanley but perhaps in the most critical area use the Stanley feels more comfortable to use. No sharp edges and feels more balanced to me. Sadly that is the most critical thing for me, even beyond steels and surface finish. My stuff is for usin' and abusin' not for looking flash although if I can bag both I gladly will! Would I buy one, maybe although I'm not 100% sure I would. I have a secondhand one on the way that will give me some idea of what I can find. I hope it is good as no matter how nice the Stanley is to use I don't like having to strip the devil down to get the blade out.

But, please take this all with a pinch of salt. "Reviews" no matter how you cut them always have a bias you must look beyond. The best way is to try for yourself. I'm sure if you add your details to the list you can have a play and make up your own mind.

Thanks for the kind words on the vids too, not sure if it's narcissism but when watching other folk I though "I could do that too".

Cheers 

G


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## matthewwh (22 Jul 2014)

Don't worry Graham, I'm sure I'll have a replacement screw around here somewhere.

I think there may be a correlation between the finely ground finish and the crispness of the edges around the relieved areas. From memory my Clifton 410 felt similar when new, but the edges soon ease with use and handling.

Thank you for taking the trouble to do a video, I wasn't expecting that!

You mentioned different techniques, I often hold a shoulder plane the other way around; with the heel of the hand in the swoop at the front, index finger along the lever arm. You can use the heel of the hand and the index finger to transfer pressure between toe and heel, and you can take the tension off the lever to make adjustments without changing grip. The Luban is a bit heavier than the 410 though, so perhaps it would suit a two handed grip better.


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## G S Haydon (22 Jul 2014)

You've gone Japanese on us Matthew . Thanks again for the chance to try this plane out.


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## CStanford (23 Jul 2014)

Very nice Graham. I must say that I like the "pass it around and try it" model rather than the "you can have one, now tell me what you think of it" model. 

Makes much, much more sense and for what I hope are obvious reasons.


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## bugbear (23 Jul 2014)

matthewwh":3ut1z0rj said:


> I think there may be a correlation between the finely ground finish and the crispness of the edges around the relieved areas. From memory my Clifton 410 felt similar when new, but the edges soon ease with use and handling.



Yeah - it's the same effect you can get on the sides of a chisel after you've flattened it. You sometimes get it on the spine and heel of a new (nicely ground...) knife. But I've never found blunting an edge to be in the slightest bit difficult...

BugBear


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## Eric The Viking (25 Jul 2014)

In case anyone's interested, I did a review of the Stanley Sweetheart #92 a few years ago. I remain unimpressed.

I'm interested that Stanley have put a screwdriver slot in the main nut - I had to hacksaw mine myself. 

It's also interesting that, in the case of both old and new-style #92s, tighening down on the blade makes no difference to the co-planarity of the two bits of the sole, because of the design. I'd guess if you tighten down enough on the QS so as to put them out of line, you're over-tightening a huge amount anyway. 

If it's a problem. you could fettle it as one does with a Bailey pattern - flatten the sole with the Iron done up tight but retracted slightly. I say that theoretically. I've done two bailey pattern planes completely, and just flattened with nothing fitted to the sole casting at all. It doesn't seem to have caused issues.

I didn't check the mouth adjustment at Peter Sefton's, but it looked like the slideway was properly parallel to the sole anyway.


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## jimi43 (25 Jul 2014)

Just got around to watching the most excellent video Graham...bravo mate...very informative indeed!

I was a bit disappointed that you didn't cover the whole story though as I should have liked to have seen you unboxing it on the floor!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Noggsy (25 Jul 2014)

When it arrives with me, I think that I might just cover the unboxing, as I'm unlikely to have anything to add to Graham's excellent video


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## G S Haydon (25 Jul 2014)

Cheers Jimi. You'll have to post a clip of the beautiful plane you are making in use!

Noggsy, I actually hope there is more contrasting feedback to mine. ETV's link is a great example. As Charles mentioned this is a very healty way to learn about new stuff and I hope we all get the chance to do it again.


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## Glynne (25 Jul 2014)

Firstly thanks to Matthew for giving people an opportunity to review one of his products. 
Secondly, thanks to Graham for a great video and a further post with pictures. 
Unfortunately I didn't read the later post properly and I got a bit of a scare as I'll explain later.

Package arrived as announced on the forum and sorry Noggsy but unpacking probably won't be long enough to make a video unless you want to PM me with a challenge to make it difficult?

First impressions, a really nice piece of kit. Solid and heavy but the edges are rough. I don't think it was just other posts that made me look out for them but they aren't the most comfortable. They don't cut you (as I've had bevel edge chisels do) but if the plane was mine, I would do something about them. Other than that, really nicely machined and all adjusters are very smooth.
I took the plane apart and that caused me a little concern when I looked at the blade.




From what I've gleamed about Graham, the edge certainly wasn't what I was expecting so a hasty retreat to check the video and Forum and all was revealed. As Graham posted (with a better picture), the blade had been honed at a slight angle so as it sat properly in the mouth.
On the video, Graham showed some movement between the tang of the blade and the body and hence the need for some adjustment. It is at this point that I need to ask a question. My understanding is that a shoulder plane blade needs to be able to be adjusted laterally to allow for aligning with both sides and so, there has to be some deliberate play. If I have got that wrong then please accept my apologies and correct me.
So if there was a need for honing on one side, why? A check with a small square showed the cutting edge wasn't at right angles to the sides - and it was quite a bit out. So at the huge risk of mentioning "sharpening", I did!
Squared the edge using an old Eclipse jig on a 400 and the 1000 diamond stone and then "Scary" sharped with paper actually bought from Matthew.
I have to be honest that I did rush this a bit but not too displeased with the result. If you look closely, you can see the reflection of the feeler guage which is more a tribute to the carbon steel than my sharpening prowess.




Or a reflection of the iPad camera




Having re-set up the plane, it works beautifully. I tried on some soft pine, straight grained ash and some figured oak - an absolute joy.
I won't post any pictures as Graham has more than covered this off.
-------------------------------
Mike (Woodbrains) asked the question of whether the plane was co-planar under tension and so to test this, I took the calm, rational decision (bottled out) and consulted an expert. At huge personal expense, I consulted the Managing Director of: -
http://precisionparts.co.uk/index.html
also known as Liam - my Lad.
The usual father / son rivalry kicks in here as Liam is to woodworking what the Boston Strangler was to door to door salesmen. But in his expert field of precision engineering (and he does some amazing work), he offered to have a look at the plane for me, so as he could then explain to me all the things I don't know about engineering - hence the personal cost!
Mike, the plane is essentially flat both tensioned and untensioned.
He measured flatness as the deviation across the surfaces being: -
Untensioned Sole 0.003mm Toe 0.019mm Side (high points) 0.012mm
Tensioned Sole 0.014mm Toe 0.020mm Side 0.046mm
To put that in perspective, the minimum width of a human hair is meant to be around 0.17mm.
-------------------------------
Ed mentioned that he has an Anant bullnose plane. So in the interests of confessions, yes I bought one when they were on offer from Rutlands - and Sod's Law, they are now £20 and still daylight robbery.
More for interest rather than comparison: -
















And one of the hollow ground blade: -




If I use it at all it as a chisel plane. The flatness even varies depending on whether you insert the pacers into the bullnose.
-------------------------------
Conclusion
An impressive piece of kit.
Liam (engineer son) was quite impressed with the construction and accuracy of machining. He did suggest that if his company were to make them, he would insert an extra process of putting the machined blanks into a "Tumbler" which would remove the sharp edges. For the small extra cost, he believes they would be more marketable as "feel" still plays a major part for components that are handled.

For me, the plane worked beautifully but like Macros, it is a bit big for the boxes and small pieces I make but yes I am now interested in a smaller shoulder plane and so any recommendations Matthew?
I'll have another play over the weekend and post the plane off to Mike S on Monday.

I'm not a professional woodworker so if I have inadvertently offended anybody then I apologise in advance and will be more than happy to learn of my shortcomings.

Thanks again Matthew, I think many suppliers could learn a lot from you.

Glynne

PS Liam did raise the question as to why woodworking tools were made to such fine tolerances when wood moves so much with humidity? I have to admit that I haven't tried to quantify the extent of movement but in the interests of father / son relationships, I blinded him with so many "woody" terms that he either acepted the need for the precision (or went away bored).


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## Eric The Viking (25 Jul 2014)

Nice one, Glynne. 

It confirms what I felt about it (well the Wood River version) when I had a look. And I agree with your son''s comments about a tumbler - the corners do feel slightly 'sharp'.

E.


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## G S Haydon (25 Jul 2014)

Excellent Glynne! 

You were much more probing than me, I just got over a minor issue without explaining it as well as you did . In a very rough and ready way I eyed the sole and the got over the out of square with some freehand honing  .
Very good to have the thoughts of someone of a metal mindset too. I guess the extra step of refining would add more to the cost I guess. Those "tolerances" are a useful narrative and an essentilal manufacturing benchmark but also a good marketing tool, even if the extra level of accuracy is not perhaps essential in can give, on paper at least, the impression of greater superiority.


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## Glynne (26 Jul 2014)

Thanks for the comments guys.
Graham, I think the only difference was time. You tested the plane, made a really good video, posted lots of detailed pictures and were no doubt conscious that you had to pass the plane on quickly so completely understandable that you just got it working. As you'd virtually covered all of the bases, there was no point in me doing the same so I had the time to play around - I'm just surprised that no one has criticised my sharpening practice but it is early days!
In terms of the accuracy of the planes, I should have mentioned that for the Anant which was about 0.04+ mm out, you can feel the plane rock on the surface plate. I think often just quoting numbers doesn't mean a lot but if you have an idea what it means in practice I think it helps.
Like you I don't tend to fiddle about with feeler gauges and if it works and I'm happy with it then I just use and probably abuse it.


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## G S Haydon (26 Jul 2014)

Yeah, your sharpening! How dare you use a that method, it was so clearly inferior to method X lol!


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## lurker (28 Jul 2014)

PS Liam did raise the question as to why woodworking tools were made to such fine tolerances when wood moves so much with humidity? I have to admit that I haven't tried to quantify the extent of movement but in the interests of father / son relationships, I blinded him with so many "woody" terms that he either acepted the need for the precision (or went away bored).

Does Jacob still post here?
I bet he is nodding at this with a smug look on his face if he does


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## Glynne (30 Jul 2014)

Catch 22 - unnecessary precision (?) vs use of a sharpening jig, difficult one for Jacob.

Anyway Mike S has confirmed he has the plane and so the pass around continues.


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## Mike.S (4 Aug 2014)

I'm a hobbyist woodworker and have never used a shoulder plane. I have plans to make some replacement doors and windows, using M&T joints, so asked to be included on this passaround to assess whether I should add a shoulder plane to my armoury and, if so, would the Luban 92 fit the bill? 

Unwrapped the package (come on, which of you previous users popped most of the bubble wrap  - an addiction of mine) and was struck by the plane's aesthetics - I like the black/steel contrast and it looked and felt well engineered. I shall say no more on that front as Glynne covered it comprehensively. 

I believe softwood is generally harder to plane than hardwood so for a test I decided to cut a tenon, rabbet and dado in a well seasoned (i.e. dry) 4"x2". Usually, I'd cut the tenon with.....a tenon saw and then clean up the shoulders and cheeks with a chisel (and, on a bad day, with a turnip file). The rabbet and dado would normally see me break out the Record 405 but I do find it a bit of a faff to set-up. My criteria was to judge if the plane would be an improvement - in ease of use and/or accuracy. 

In brief, the plane performed as I hoped and expected. Shaving the end grain on the tenon shoulders was straightforward. I was particularly impressed with the ease of loosening the blade (quarter turn on the knurled knob) so that I could skew it ever so slightly to one side in order to get right into the corners. Similarly, the blade could be advanced and retracted easily - I usually loosened the lever cap but found this wasn't essential. 

The edges of the rabbet and dado were established by saw and the plane quickly and easily removed material. I fiddled around with depth of cut and found ease of use at both shallow and medium depth. This was all cross grain work. 

On ergonomics I did struggle a bit, finding it difficult at first to establish a comfortable and effective handhold. This was not due to the already documented sharp edges (not really a problem for the amount of use I'd envisage) but more the absence of an obvious place to grip it. This probably reflects my inexperience, rather than a plane deficiency.. I eventually settled on the traditional grip (as Geoff demonstrated in his video) and also tried the 'japanese style' described by Matthew. I actually preferred the latter - it enabled me to keep the weight more evenly over the blade. 

In summary, I'm convinced that a shoulder plane would aid my planned woodworking. Though the advantage over my chisel/file method for tenons was not great the versatility it would offer is a marked advantage. Would I buy this one? Well, whilst waiting for this to arrive I had bid on a Clifton 410 and 420 but both went for c.£125, compared to the c.£95 cost of this plane (Cliffies are c.£180 new). So, on value/performance grounds yes - with just a slight reservation as to whether a smaller version would better suit me. I need to try another before I can decide! 

My thanks to Matthew for the opportunity to try this Luban 92 plane out. 

Mike

P.S. fluffflinger/Richard - plane will be posted (recorded) to you tomorrow (Tuesday).


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## fluffflinger (9 Aug 2014)

Plane rec'd and will be forwarded to Noggsy on Monday.

Full review to come but it is of the same high quality that I've come to expect from all Matthew's stable.

Have some time tomorrow to give it a full examination.

Thanks Matthew.

Regards

Richard


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## Glynne (15 Aug 2014)

Guys - apologies for a slight diversion in this thread but I thought 1 or 2 people might be interested in another of Matthew's products.
As several people mentioned, myself included, the Quangsheng whilst a nice bit of kit it was too large for the type of projects they undertook. Macros mentioned both the Veritas and Clifton detail planes and after having used the Quansheng, I decided to splash out and buy the Clifton 400 from Matthew as this was on offer. So for anyone else thinking of a detail or small shoulder plane, here are some brief views on the Clifton.
As you can see the plane comes sealed in a box (there is a point to this as you'll see later). 




The plane is a lot smaller than the QS 


but does fit really nicely in the hand 


The finish is excellent as is the balance and I really couldn't wait to use it. However on taking the blade out 


You can clearly see the mess the back was in! I was really disappointed with this as I tend to associate Clifton with quality and whilst I didn't expect to be able to use the plane out of the box, I didn't expect to have to clean up the back to this extent. The front bevel also seemed to be at an angle and a few laps on a diamond stone showed the extent this was out. 


As the plane came sealed in the box, there is no criticism of Matthew or Workshop Heaven whatsoever as I wouldn't expect them to have to check products from a supplier such as Clfton.
I did think of returning the blade for a replacement but as I was wanting to use the plane, I bit the bullet and flattened / polished the back which I had to start on a 400 grit diamond stone, then a 1000 before hitting the scary sharp. I did rush this a bit so the finish isn't what I would normally aim for but the blade does polish up well. 






So finally I had a usable plane and it is a delight to use. I tried it on a variety of hard and softwoods and the size does enable you to get in to quite small areas. I found the plane quite easy to set up and adjust and just one picture of a shaving 




In conclusion, I am now very pleased with the plane and I would be happy to recommend to anyone looking for a small detail plane. In retrospect, I probably should have asked for a replacement blade as it did take a lot of work to become usable so if you are thinking of getting one, don't wait until you need it just in case you have the same issue with the blade and need to send it back.

Glynne


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## marcros (15 Aug 2014)

hmmm. one of those Cliftons at 1/2" or one of these in 3/8" https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/ver ... bbet-plane.

I think it will probably be the veritas because it is quite a bit cheaper, but I do like the look of that Clifton.

Strangely there are not a huge number of reviews on either on the web, and of the few most seem favourable.


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2014)

Possible word of advice here; be very cautious before "correcting" a blade that has been sharpened "out of square" in a low bedding angle plane. Milling the bed for these becomes more and more critical (and hence difficult) as the bedding angle lowers. Since it is crucial for planing that the blade's edge is parallel with the sole it may be necessary to correct any bed-plane errors by ... sharpening the blade at a slight skew.

I learnt this when renovating a (cheap) #90J bullnose rebate. I carefully squared up the blade, and then had to carefully re-skew it!

BugBear


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## Noggsy (15 Aug 2014)

I have received the plane and spent some time last night playing with it. I have to say, I love it and if I wasn't skinter than skint at the moment, I would now own one of these planes. It will almost certainly be my next purchase and I want to really thank Matthew for this passaround and letting me get my hands on it.

I have a Stanley 92, which is much older and (I think) smaller than the one used by GHaydon in his excellent video. I also have a wooden shoulder plane, but I've always struggled with adjusting it correctly, so my experience of shoulder planes is limited to the Stanley really.

Firstly, the packaging was good and as soon as I took the plane out, I was struck by how weighty it is. I find that this really makes a difference when planing end grain compared to my other plane. I'm not saying that you couldn't do it just as effectively with a lighter plane, but for me, this is a huge advantage. I also really like how it feels in the hand and the look of the thing. Whilst I understand the concerns about the sharp edges, they didn't bother me in the half hour or so I used the plane and the inset pattern and the general finish were excellent. There seemed to be something of a burr left on some edges and I found that only a few passes with my hand seemed to smooth this away, so a few minutes with a diamond file or sandpaper and this would be sorted, if anyone did feel this was an issue. I can understand why this would frustrate some people, but at this price point, I don't see it as a huge problem.

Another feature which I also really like is the length of the mouth, which is also adjustable. This allows you to seat the plane firmly before the blade engages in the wood. Again, this may not assist more experienced woodworkers, but for those (like me) without that experience, this is helpful and adds to my perception of this plane as being more forgiving. The adjuster on the mouth meant that I could close it up and get very fine shavings and in this regards, as with the heft of the plane, there is just no comparison between this and the Stanley.

Finally, the finish left by the plane was excellent. I used it on long- and end-grain pine and on all three orientations of oak and the finish left on every surface was very good indeed. I was particularly impressed with the cross-grain oak finish...with a knifed line, the finish was crisp and smooth and surprisingly easy to control.

I do not make masses of tenons, but it is something I will be working to develop over the next 12 months and I hope to have this plane to help me to adjust the (inevitable) mistakes I make. For rebating and general cleaning up work, this plane is superb and for me, just 'feels right' in my hand. Like with musical instruments, I think that this is one of the most important tests.

I will play with this some more today and then get it posted on to the next on the list over the weekend.

Thanks again Matthew.


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## David C (15 Aug 2014)

BB,

That's what Karl H and I call azimuth error. I got the term from him.

David


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## morfa (22 Aug 2014)

Ok, I've got the plane from Noggsy. I have to say it looks like it's hardly been used. I've got some doors and face frames to make, so I think I'll spend some of the weekend doing that. Try and give the plane a good workout. Thankfully I'm the last person to have it so no one else has to put up with my 'sharpening'.


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## AndyT (22 Aug 2014)

Just picking up on Glynne's little digression... the Clifton 400 does look very nice... I recently succumbed to the appeal of its predecessor, the Preston 1366. Only 3" long and 3/8" wide:











and seen here posing beside its big brother






And yes, I did have to hone the blade!


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## morfa (3 Sep 2014)

Had a bit more of a play with the plane of the last few days. It's very well made and it seems like you lot have hardly used it. I'm hoping to spend some time making doors over the next few days, so as long as people don't mind me keeping it for another week or so I'll have a proper bash at it.


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## morfa (21 Sep 2014)

Errr, yes I still have this and yes I sorta forgot I had it. Just got a new job and been on holiday so been very busy. Will get it back to Matt ASAP.


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## jimi43 (21 Sep 2014)

Congrats on the new job morfa!

=D> 

Jimi


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## morfa (3 Oct 2014)

Ok, hmmm, I still have the plane. I've been working away on my kitchen the last few weeks. I've been doing quite a few tenons and I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to buy it. I suspect I'm over stepping the line somewhere here. However it's an excellent plane and I'm really loving using it. It's also becoming a key part of my work process. Mark the tenon, get out the sash saw to crosscut the shoulders, then grab the dozuki me to rip the cheeks off, over to the QS to tidy the shoulders up quickly, then test fit. Finally block plane if the shoulder is a bit long or big. The QS really does an excellent job of squaring up the shoulders. 

I've not had to sharpen it, but I have noticed that the blade isn't perfectly square so it doesn't cut so well on one side. You have to use it on one side and not the other. That's not an issue for me, but don't know how it's got like that. It still looks like new.

As the other reviewers have done such a detailed job I'm stuck to say anything new really. Apart from to say it's an excellent plane and well worth the money. Especially when second hand shoulder planes aren't that common or cheap.


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## bugbear (3 Oct 2014)

morfa":2asw1ion said:


> Ok, hmmm, I still have the plane. I've been working away on my kitchen the last few weeks. I've been doing quite a few tenons and I'm beginning to think I'm going to have to buy it. I suspect I'm over stepping the line somewhere here. However it's an excellent plane and I'm really loving using it. *It's also becoming a key part of my work process.* Mark the tenon, get out the sash saw to crosscut the shoulders, then grab the dozuki me to rip the cheeks off, over to the QS to tidy the shoulders up quickly, then test fit. Finally block plane if the shoulder is a bit long or big. The QS really does an excellent job of squaring up the shoulders.
> 
> I've not had to sharpen it, but I have noticed that the blade isn't perfectly square so it doesn't cut so well on one side. You have to use it on one side and not the other. That's not an issue for me, but don't know how it's got like that. It still looks like new.
> 
> As the other reviewers have done such a detailed job I'm stuck to say anything new really.



Oh, I think you found something very important and useful to say. I highlighted it.

BugBear


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## morfa (29 Oct 2014)

Ok, the plane is back on it's way to Workshop Heaven. Many thanks to Matt for letting me have it for so long, but as much as I like it I can't quite afford to buy it at the moment.


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## Ed Bray (2 Dec 2014)

Just in case anyone is interested in one of theses, Matt has some 'slight seconds' of them on ebay for £60 including shipping.


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## Ed Bray (4 Dec 2014)

Mine arrived today, I think it is great and whilst I am not the most experienced with hand tools which may have a bearing on the fact I cannot discern what the fault actually is, it seems smooth enough to me in use and I haven't specifically noticed any 'sticky' bit.

Best £60 I spent on Tuesday =D>


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## matthewwh (7 Dec 2014)

Glad you like it Ed!

Some are more noticable than others, but at worst it's just a bit stiffer on one half of the rotation. Once the plane is set up I can't imagine there's much more than a full turn between a light cut and a heavy one anyway.


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## Max Power (8 Dec 2014)

"Ok, the plane is back on it's way to Workshop Heaven. Many thanks to Matt for letting me have it for so long, but as much as I like it I can't quite afford to buy it at the moment."
:shock: Blimey thats well over two months on trial

Hmm I've got a conservatory build coming up soon :-k


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## morfa (8 Dec 2014)

Max Power":17qk1mbt said:


> "Ok, the plane is back on it's way to Workshop Heaven. Many thanks to Matt for letting me have it for so long, but as much as I like it I can't quite afford to buy it at the moment."
> :shock: Blimey thats well over two months on trial
> 
> Hmm I've got a conservatory build coming up soon :-k



You're the first person to comment. I'm sort of surprised no one else did really. There we go. I've just ordered one of the seconds planes off the website.


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