# Recommendation for Scroll Saw



## LordSamuel (12 Feb 2020)

Hi,

forgive my English (google translate). I came to this forum through research to purchase a Scroll Saw and I read very competent people here. I have read various posts on the subject, your advice and opinions.

I have a DSH proxxon to which I made a change to attach the blades quickly. I've had it for ten years and it's more for the jobs that I do well or better it was good because it doesn't start anymore. I tried to disassemble the switch and connect the wires directly to try to leave but it doesn't go. I think then it's the engine.

I had thought of buying another Scroll Saw and I was in doubt about Hegner Multicut 1but then I read of you that you also recommend the Scroll Saw Axminster. So I'm undecided.

Unfortunately I don't have a place indoors to work I do everything in a terraced and sheltered balcony but Scroll Saw is out in the cold.

I paid little for the proxxon at the time and the fact that I'm out in the cold didn't really matter but a Hegner tunnel that costs more than 700 euros or an Axminster I'm afraid to leave it out.

Maybe I thought of making him a box with insulating wool to keep it repaired and not ruin it, do you think it will be enough?

What do you recommend?

Thanks and sorry again for the English.


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## Droogs (12 Feb 2020)

I would be concerned about leaving an expensive saw outside as well. I would suggest that if the size of saw you have meets your needs then you could replace the motor. If that is too expensive compared to the cost of a new saw from Hegner or Axminster then, try buying a cheap saw from Lidl Italia (approximately 60 euro) and swap the motors. 
Whatever you do please make a box cover with insulation like celotex to cover the machine to give it a long life.

Sarei preoccupato di lasciare anche una costosa sega fuori. Suggerirei che se le dimensioni della sega che hai soddisfano le tue esigenze, potresti sostituire il motore. Se è troppo costoso rispetto al costo di una nuova sega di Hegner o Axminster, prova ad acquistare una sega economica da Lidl Italia (circa 60 euro) e scambia i motori.
Qualunque cosa tu faccia, ti preghiamo di realizzare un coperchio di scatola con isolamento come celotex per coprire la macchina per dargli una lunga durata.


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## AES (12 Feb 2020)

Welcome to the Forum Lord Samuel. Please don't apologise for your English - it's a lot better than my Italian (with or without Google Translator)!

I agree 100% with the post from Droogs above - in fact I wouldn't be happy about leaving any machine for indoor workshop use to be outside in the cold & wet.

1 idea I have in addition to Droogs: I see your present Proxxon machine is 10 years old, correct? I don't know that machine myself but Proxxon generally has a very good reputation so before thinking of buying any new motor I would see if a local Proxxon dealer can fix it first. First, it may not be the motor itself at fault, and second, if you do end up having to buy a new motor, at least you know it will fit directly (IF a motor for your machine is still available at a reasonable price).

Sorry, I couldn't make Google Translator work for me :?


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## LordSamuel (12 Feb 2020)

ok, i can make box / lid to repair. Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately here in Rome the proxxon assistance is absent as a service and they charge dearly.

Is there any thought of changing your advice between Hegner 1 or Axminster what is it? I also saw Pegas. Which is worth it?


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## Inspector (12 Feb 2020)

I don't see a reason to make an insulated box unless there is a small source of heat in it. Otherwise any moisture inside will eventually condense on the tool as the temperature inside and out equalize. If something like this is available or even a small light bulb from an oven or refrigerator would be enough. You could make the box big enough to put a few other tools in there too. 

Pete


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## LordSamuel (12 Feb 2020)

I will also do this. Thank you. I think I can find a place in the cellar and it will be very sheltered.

But I need your advice on what to consider when buying.


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## AES (12 Feb 2020)

OK Lord Samuel, here goes, as short as I can (sorry, my translator's still not working).

The 2 "top of the European Market" scroll saws are (in my opinion) Hegner and Excalibur (there is also Delta, an American brand, but they don't seem to be easily available in Europe).

Hegner are very well made indeed (in Germany) and very long lasting BUT are very expensive for what they are, ESPECIALLY their spare parts. There are various Hegner models, both single speed and variable speed, and the most expensive versions have the benefit of variable stroke. But in all models, to make angled cuts you have to tilt the table. That's true of just about all scroll saws actually, but see "GI" below.

Axminster Tools in UK have a Hegner model which they have "cloned" with their own badge on it. Sorry, I'm having problems right now with their website so I can't link to current prices but based on their 2018/19 paper catalogue (thanks Droogs!) the price of the Axminster Model AT60SS Scroll Saw was 500 UK£. At least one member of this Forum has one and speaks very highly of it.

The other "good European" Scroll Saw goes under various names but I'll call it "General International" ("GI" for short here). This scroll saw has all the features you could possibly want and based on my own machine (it's 5 years old now) both the build and material quality is absolutely 1st Class. It has fully variable speed and unlike any other scroll saws, to make angled cuts you don't tilt the table, you tilt the whole sawing arm together with the motor instead. This works very well indeed and IMO, even if you don't make a lot of angled cuts, this feature is FAR superior to tilting the table and well worth having.

That machine is made by GI, a Canadian company, and is called Excalibur. There are 3 separate models, the 16, 21, & 30. Those numbers refer to the back to front depth of the throat in inches. Although GI has all these machines made in Taiwan, have no fear at all, they really are of EXCELLENT quality and engineering. Machine prices are high (but a bit less than for Hegner) and spares prices are very reasonable. (By the way, GI also make other metal and wood work machines, which all seem to have a very good reputation).

That "same" GI machine is also available under the name Seyco, but I think only in the USA, so no more info necessary here.

There is a company in Switzerland called Scies SA, and amongst other things they make very good scroll saw blades under the brand name Pegas. They are the European importer for GI Excalibur Scroll Saws, but they have recently started selling these machines with their own brand label "Pegas". As far as I can see, these machines are exactly the same as the GI Excalibur range but have a Pegas label on them. No other difference at all. Scies/Pegas will only sell through dealers, NOT direct, and for example the 21 inch model costs just under 1,000 Swiss Francs here. But the same machine bought through the Pegas German dealer Dictum Tools in Munich currently costs €860.

BUT, Axminster Tools also have a version of the GI Excalibur machines, and again, just like the Hegner clone, also with Axminster's own "Trade" labels on them. Again I'm not fully up to date with prices, but the Axminster Model AT 535SS (the 21 inch model) costs 700 UK£ (in their 2018/19 catalogue).

Several members here have that Scroll Saw from Axminster, and they've been discussed a lot here, and they APPEAR to be exactly the same as my own GI/Excalibur machine. BUT just recently, at least 2 different members here have had mechanical/electrical problems with their AT machines. I was very surprised because, as said, my own GI machine is now 5 years old and has not given me one moment of trouble. But on the other hand, Axminster does have a very good reputation for service.

Anyway, if you want to look at Axminster Tools in UK, look here:

https://www.axminster.co.uk/

And if you want to look at Hegner in UK (not sure if you can find them in Italy), look here:

http://www.hegner.co.uk

Not sure if you have a Pegas/GI-Excalibur dealer in Italy, but for me anyway, Dictum Tools in Munich are the cheapest, so look here:

http://www.dictum.com/

And if you want to look at Scies/Pegas in Switzerland, look here:

http://www.scies.ch/

ALL of the above machines are above your price range, I know. But if you want a good machine, these are the ones to go for - in my opinion anyway. If you can't afford to buy any of them new, how about second hand? How is the S/H market in Italy?

Alternatively, I don't have any personal experience of Proxxon Scroll saws, but they do have a good overall reputation, so if repairing your current machine would be too expensive, how about buying another Proxxon, either new or second hand?

The other problem is that ALL of the above machines are pretty big and heavy - much bigger than your current Proxxon. I certainly would NOT want to be carrying my GI/Excalibur 21 up and down stairs every day!

So if you're forced to go back to the idea of storing your machine on a balcony, you do need to make a watertight cover, and it MUST let some air circulate inside the box. And just as Inspector has already said above, ideally you also need a low-wattage light bulb inside. This and air circulation will guard against rust and corrosion on the machine, which WILL come from condensation.

The only other suggestion I can make is that if you're OK with mechanical and electrical things, as Droogs suggests, you could buy a very cheap Scroll Saw (e.g. Aldi or Lidl) and "rob" the motor from it to fit to your existing Proxxon - IF you could make it fit?

Finally, whereabouts are you based in Italy? 

I live up in the NW of Switzerland (about as far away from Italy as you can get)! But as you know, Switzerland is a small country, so as it's Autostrada all the way, I can comfortably drive to the border with Italy in about 2.5 hours from home (through the Gotthard and just S of Lugano to the border). 

As you know I'm sure, getting around Milano on the Autostrada is always a problem (!!!), so if you live S of Rome I don't think it's possible, but if you're nearer than here than, say, Rome, you're welcome to come and try my Scroll Saw here any time you like - for example I used to visit Ravenna regularly each year and even if Milano was difficult, I could usually drive there within about 6 hours of leaving home (WITH a stop for Espresso)!

Best of luck


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## LordSamuel (13 Feb 2020)

Hi AES,

thank you so much for your explanation! For me it is very precious! I understand that these great brands of Scroll Saw are all excellent. I put Axminster aside because in case of problems from here Italy it would be impossible to solve them at low cost.

The Proxxon DSH is a good machine but it is designed for the hobby, too much hobby. The blowing system is a pump that is compressed when the upper arm swings. After a month it has already broken. The adjustment system is to be done every time. If you are working with internal cuts it is torture. The quick blade locking system does not exist. I found a blade lock from another tunnel and put it but only on top. It's okay to start but I gladly change it. ;or)

My choice at this point is on hegner or pegas. For pegas I can buy 21 "here in Italy at a price of € 1,052.40 including shipping. Hegner Multicut-SE I can buy from dictum at a price € 1240.7 including shipping. Apart from the difference in price why should I choose Pegas instead of Hegner?

I am in Rome and it is not easy to move between children, wife and work time is always short but sometimes I come up to Turin! I thank you for your availability to try your Scroll Saw if I was nearby I would have come immediately!


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## AES (13 Feb 2020)

OK Lord Samuel. I didn't realise that you're in Rome. Yes, that is more or less the absolute limit for a 1 day journey there and back (and a VERY long 1 day it would be too)! Of course there is always airlines (like Easy Jet, etc). My nearest airport is Basel (20 minutes drive) and I would happily pick you up from there. But with a wife and family too (and no doubt a job, I'm retired) again, probably too much.

Would your local Pegas dealer in Italy let you try before you buy (see below)?

Difference between Hegner and Pegas?

Well back 5 years ago I had a chance to try out myself both a Hegner Multispeed II and the GI/Excalibur/Pegas 21 side by side (that was at Dictum Tools in Munich BTW).

So my practical test? 
1st the price of the Hegner was about 15% higher. And Hegner spares prices are MUCH higher than GI/Excalibur/Pegas.
2nd, although the Hegner "felt" even better in "quality" than the GI/Excalibut/Pegas 21, the 21 is still EXCELLENT quality.
3rd, as already said, with all Hegner models you have to tilt the table to get an angled cut. This is "OK" in my opinion (just about all scroll saws do that), but even for someone doing only a little angled cutting, the GI/Excalibur/Pegas tilting head system is MUCH better and easier to use than the Hegner for angled cuts.

I can't really say any more, I've said it all before (in the previous post, above).

I hope that helps you, and good luck.


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## AES (14 Feb 2020)

Lord Samuel: I forgot, sorry. You should also look at the thread directly above this by member "scrimper". The thread is called Choosing a scroll-saw. Why pay more? He says much the same as I do about the differences between "cheap" and "expensive" machines.


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