# My Shed build



## Joe Shmoe (8 Mar 2008)

Hi folks.

Im a keen DIYer and this is my first big project....building a shed!

Its 2.4m x 5m, built from a 2x3 frame and covered with 19mm shiplap. I'm intending to cover the pitched roof with Cedar shingles - expensive, but I really like the look they give.

Here's a sketchup file of my intended build - if anyone has any comments on where I might have made a basic design error, I'd love to know.

http://echopic.com/fo6

I have 3 questions if anyone could advise?

1) The timber is being delivered next week, and one thing I am unsure of is if I need to let it acclimatise or anything so that the wood doesn't shink or warp etc? I'd hate to build all the framework and lay on the shiplap only for gaps or anything to appear? Can anyone advise on that ?

2) The frame work is gonna be constructed by 50x75 timber, so what size nails should I be using to knock this together?

3) I've looked at some of the fantastic shed-build on this site, and notice some of you have moved the chord of the roof-trusses higher up the rafters instead of being level with the wall-plates. I would certainly like to do this to create more head-room. Is there anything I should bear in mind or should I stick with the design above ? The pitch is 7:12 and will be coverd by 18mm OSB and then Cedar Shingles.



Regards
Joe.


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## 9fingers (8 Mar 2008)

Here is your picture released from the spam trap

http://echopic.com/fo6

Worth considering raising the trusses so you can swing an 8 x 4 sheet corner to corner when the floor and ceiling are installed.

Bob


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## Shultzy (8 Mar 2008)

Hi Joe, welcome to the forum. Your sketchup file or any pictures won't be seen until you post about 5 times as the spamulator catches them. My shiplap was out in the open but under cover for 3 months and some of it has still shrunk, mainly those boards in direct sunlight, so I wouldn't worry just keep it dry.

For nails I think 2 1/2 times the thickness of wood you are nailing through is a good "rule of thumb". So for 50mm (2") wood use a 125mm (5") nail. I used 4" screws at the top and bottom of the frames, which I counterbored, as it was more convenient to construct.


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## exigetastic (9 Mar 2008)

Nice sketchup must have taken ages!

Seems like me you also like to "over engineer" things!

I would consider a few tweaks. One remove the uprights from the roof trusses. My shed roof has the same span as yours at 2.4m, but instead of a centre upright I used ply wood gussets at the intersections to aid the strength. (It is suprising how strong triangles are! When putting the felt on, myself and two friends where up there and TBH you couldn't really feel any deflection.) This would free up the "attic" and make it easier to use for storage (Say you had some 8ft long bits and bobs and want to move it from one side to the other, you'd need to take it down, then pass it back up avoiding the upright)

I'd also consider simplifying the wall verticals. E.g. mine are equally spaced, to line up with the trusses at 600mm (or was it 400mm) centers. This means :
a) the load from the roof is transferred straight down in compression of the uprights
b) When lining the inside boards will go in without cutting.


Here is a quick pick of how I went about it...







And the nearest I have to complete. (Which reminds me I must take some snaps of the final outcome to finish off the thread  )






Hope this helps in your thought process....

Si


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## PowerTool (9 Mar 2008)

Hello,and welcome to the forum  

Like the idea of the cedar shingles,will look forward to seeing pictures.

Andrew


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## Joe Shmoe (10 Mar 2008)

Hi Si, thanks for your reply.

Your right, I'm going to move the trusses to co-incide with the wall verticals and I will remove the uprights from the trusses - I think I was just worried about the additional weight from the Cedar Shingles. 

I've got a couple of questions.

1) What thickness of Ply should I use for the gussets and do I have to bolt them together or will several screws suffice ?

2) I was intending to build the roof from 2x3s. Will that be thick enough timber to cut a heal into it, and how deep should the heal be?

3) The Timber is being delivered this week and more than likely its gonna be wet with rain!!! The Shiplap and 2x3s are _supposed _to be tanalised. Does this mean they are sufficiently treated and I don't have to worry about getting them wet or should I cover them and not proceed with work until there is no chance of rain ?


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## exigetastic (10 Mar 2008)

I used 12mm ply "no more nails" and screws. (Both sides)

I'm not a structural engineer, so you will have to satisfy yourself they will be strong enough. (my rigurous testing involved making one up and jumping up and down on it  ) If you aren't satisfied you can simply insert an upright!

I also made a jig (basically a ply board, layed on the floor with some battons screwed on to act as stops) for my trusses. This made getting them all identical a snap.

My timber was also tanalised, and it got left out in the rain. I've not noticed any shrinkage problems, other than I painted the T+G after installation, so you can see the odd unpainted lines appear after a dry spell. I'm just going to wait till summer and give it another coat.


Si


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## OPJ (10 Mar 2008)

A little rain water over a few days certainly won't affect the treated timber in anyway. Even untreated timber would have no problems. If it is gonna be left in the rain though, you may still want to consider covering it over with a tarpaulin or some plastic sheeting, weighted down on top.

Wet timber can be a pipper to work with, even when trying to cut it with a handsaw!

Screwing the gusset plates from both sides, as Si has suggested, should be fine.

When you talking about cutting a "heal", I take it you mean what's commonly known as a "bird's mouth", which is a 90º plumb and seat cut which allows the common rafters to sit on the wall plates?

Like most carpentry work (ie. tenons), these are worked out in thirds. I can't advise whether you'd be better off with 4"x2" timber but, if you're working with 3"x2", the bird's mouths should therefore be 1" in from the inside edge of the rafter (in your situation, anyway).

Looking forward to seeing how this develops - best of luck to you!


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## Joe Shmoe (1 Apr 2008)

Hi folks.

Well, the weather has been poor so I still haven't started the shed build, but I have taken delivery of the timber and covered to protect it until I do start. Thanks for advice OPJ, I also decided to get 4x2 for the roof trusses.

I have a question......


I have been offered (for a small price) a couple of White PVC windows for the side of the shed - each being 1200mm x 600mm. I was intending to have the two windows plus one wooden door, along one length of the shed. As much as I would love to have them, I'm concerned that white PVC windows aren't going to look right.

The walls will be tanalised shiplap which I am unsure how to treat/colour and I was intending to get Ceder Shingles for the roof.

I'm not sure that White PVC frames will work with the Shingle roof. Anyone got any views or perhaps any ideas how I could colour or disguise the window frames ?


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## ratkinsonuk (1 Apr 2008)

Joe, if you want an idea of what white PVC might look like, check out my build at http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/ratkinsonuk/. I managed to get 4 windows for the back, now covered in stick-back frosting for securty, and a large window for the front for less than £200.

The build is similar to yours - except I used 4x2 for the walls and 5x2/6x2 for the roof, as my shed is significantly larger.

I also toyed with cedar shingles, but decided to buy much cheaper felt shingles, also available in green, and save my money for better insulation.

As far as fixings, these nails from Screwfix are superb (also available in other sizes) :-

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/98636/Nai ... ails-100mm

They have grooves down the sides which make them damn difficult to pull out, so are perfect for framing.

Rob.


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## Joe Shmoe (21 Apr 2008)

Hi all, I think I might have made a school-boy error on my shed build and am unsure how to proceed.

For the roof, I have 18mm OSB covered with a membrain, over which I have nailed Cedar Shinles.

Now I need to think about the soffits and facias but am unsure what to do. I'm undecided whether to use Cedar or PVC for the facias, but either way, where happens to the membrain overhang? Does it overhang over the top of the facia by an inch or so and rest into the guttering, or do I tuck it under the facia when I come to fix it to the ends of the trusses?

Should I have used some kind of "L" shape PVC strip that sits on top of the OSB ?


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## Digit (21 Apr 2008)

Into the guttering.

Roy.


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## ratkinsonuk (21 Apr 2008)

See you've made the same mistake I did - forgot to create the structure for the eve's when you built the frame.

In the end, I had to screw short stubs of rafter to the underside of the roofing ply, and then fix the soffits to that :-






Rob.


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2008)

I know it's probably a bit of extra work, but have you considered match- board shutters for security, to cover the windows inside?

You could either make a shutter that can be hinged upwards, and hooked out of the way when working:

or 

Make ordinary hinged shutters, using 'lift-off' hinges, so they can be stowed away when you are using the shed. Naturally the shutters are bolted to the frame work of the shed around the windows. Just an anti-theft idea I had. 

I shall be modifying a new shed soon and this is one idea i will be using, together with iron angle around the door-frame with a recycled 'Kentucky style house-door' which opens inwards. Not so easy to Jemmy open. 

Best of luck. 
Looking good.
John


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## Joe Shmoe (23 Apr 2008)

thanks for advice. I've learnt from my mistakes and will remember to build the overhangs BEFORE i put the roof on next time  


I have two questions regarding my next phase of the build....

I wanted to build "L" shaped strips of wood that would run vertically on the 4 corners of the shed.... in order to hide/protect where the shiplap on on side meets the shiplap on the adjacent side.

Q1 : I was intending to use 18mm x 70mm planned softwood to build the L-shaped corner strips. The wood isn't tanalised or anything - so will it be okay to use outside once its protected with creosote or should I look to use something else ?

Q2 : How to I join each of the 2m lengths to each other at a right angle in order to make the L peice ? 


thanks guys,
Joe


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## ratkinsonuk (23 Apr 2008)

> intending to use 18mm x 70mm planned softwood



70mm should be fine - the wider the better. I would also suggest putting a bead of sealent behind the corner bead, as water will find it's way in if you don't, even on a flat surface.



> will it be okay to use outside



Yes, but as you say, make sure you protect it well with preservative.



> How to I join each of the 2m lengths to each other



A decent waterproof PVA, or better still, Gorilla Glue. Either pin it or screw it whilst the glue dries, then paint with preservative. The grain will be going the same way, so it's unlikely to split. I would also screw it to the corners, as any bowing could pull nails out.

Rob.


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## Joe Shmoe (1 May 2008)

Hi again folks.

I'm almost complete with the shed, but I dont know how to proceed with the double doors (each approx 600mm wide)

I was intending to make a simple framework from 2x3 and then cover the front with Shiplap - so basically exactly how my walls are constructed. But i have 2 questions, if someone wiser than me could answer ?

1) What kind of hinges should I use and how should they be mounted, flush across the shiplap, or recessed between the wall frame and the door frame?

2) How do I stop the wind and rain from getting into the shed, as there will be say 3mm all round where the edge of the doors meet the actual shed frame?


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## Benchwayze (1 May 2008)

Hi Joe, 

I am going to hear a lot of 'Oh Noooo'''s here, but if I were you, I would choose INWARD opening doors. You are clearly going to use proper exterior thickness doors and if you put in glass, use Georgian-wired glass, doubled with polycarbonate. 

There isn't really an issue with the space needed for inward opening doors, because it's only a problem when you open the door. Once inside, you' close it again, so you can still put items to the side of the entrance. You could arrange for lift off hinges, so you can work with the doors open in the Summer. Either way, you aren't going to put anything in front of a doorway whichever way the doors open. 

If you fit a good solid mortice lock, (don't scrimp here) and hardened bolts on one of the doors, you should be fine for security. You can also fix a piece of iron down the edge of the door that is going to receive the catch. You should ideally, rebate the meeting edges, with a bead for outside appearance sake. 

Whichever way you hang the doors though, don't use 'T' hinges that are fixed outside. Even straps and hangers are vulnerable, if the 'rascals' have time to work a way around them! 

Finally, ask your local Crime Prevention Officer to give you a visit. You'd be surprised how much they can help, and how many insurance companies and security locks etc, they know of! 

Hope this helps.

John 

.

Best of luck

John


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## ratkinsonuk (1 May 2008)

Joe, I managed to get a bargain from a friend who had bought some hardwood doors, but didn't like the style.

I assume your doors open outwards, so here's my two-penny worth.....

I started by creating a 10mm wide half-lap joint, so that the doors butted into each other. This will keep out the rain/wind between the doors, and also help stop anyone getting at your lock inside (if you fit one).

I then morticed boths doors and frame to take external-use hinges, 3 x 70mm per door. It's worth spending extra money to get something that isn't going to rust, and even 'security hinges' that can't be prised apart.

Because you rebate the hinge flush, there should be practically no gap between the door and frame, but make sure you use a preservative around the inside of the frame before you fit the door.

To ensure any gaps are completely insulated, close the doors and fit a bead all the way round on the inside, butted up against the face of the doors. The only place you can't do this is at the bottom, unless you engineer the doorway to but up against the inside of the floor, as opposed to sitting on top of it. If this is the case, you can simply screw a draught excluder bar onto the bottom of the door instead.

For that 110% protection, stick rubber draught seals between the door and the bead, so that the door compresses against it. If your fit inside the frame is tight enough, you shouldn't need to do this, though.

Rob.


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## Shultzy (1 May 2008)

Hi Joe, have a look at page 4 on my shed build for some ideas on the doors.


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## Joe Shmoe (7 May 2008)

Hi all.

Shed is almost complete, but now I wanted to put insulation in the wall (I used 2x3 so have 75mm cavity) and then line the inside with something.

Can any help with these questions?

1) I installed a membrane between the studwork and the exterior shiplap, but do I need some kind of second membrane in between the insulation and the inside lining of the shed ? 

2) what kind of insulation material should I use?

3) What should I line the walls with ? Should I get some cheap interior cladding (but will I need to treat it?) or should I get some OSB or something?


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## Paul B (7 May 2008)

Hi joe

after much research and various opinion i have the same questions as to what to construct the walls from ie insulation etc

i have decided on 3x2 frame, cladded on the outside with a 6mm sheathing ply then breather membrane stapled to that - battons for air flow then ship lap - 

on the inside 40mm kingspan / visqueen membrane to stop any moisture coming back then 12mm wpb ply for the interior walls - 

some say this is over the top - anyone have any ideas?

i need it to be bone dry no moisture at all.


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## plug (7 May 2008)

Digit":1jo1q558 said:


> Into the guttering.
> 
> Roy.



DO NOT LET THE BREATHABLE FELT HANG INTO THE GUTTER. 

It soaks up the water like a sponge, you normally use a 12 inch wide strip of slaters felt on the roof to hang into the gutter, then breathable felt under the roof covering so it can't be seen. If it is to late for that then cut of the felt under the tiles flush with the facia.


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## Digit (7 May 2008)

Granted keep it above the water level, I've always found that ordinay felts even rot if right into the gutter. They also trap leave as well.

Roy.


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