# Not an Infill



## Richard T (13 Nov 2013)

I've been a bit quiet on the plane making posts lately as I was determined to have one finished before I showed it to anyone ..... well it's nearly finished. 

I thought I would have a go at Dave D's idea of putting the shell together with pins rather that dovetails. This means a very thick sole - thick enough to take the size of pin you decide on. I chose a 6mm pin which seems to suit a 10mm sole. Beefy darn thing.
I'll skip the hours of shaping, marking, clamping and drilling. Here it is being held together by SS bolts while I put the mild steel pins in.





Putting in the next pin - thread cut on the end of a long piece of 6mm wire and held in the vice, screwing the plane on to it. 





And cutting off the pin with enough steel to rivet.





I had put a centre punch mark in the counter sink rim to lock the head of the rivet. 

Ready to rivet.





I finally received my 1/2", 14 tpi, square tap and die. It was very expensive and I have waited a long time for it.





But they do a fantastic job. 





Bit of a jump to the plane as it is now. Still some work to do on the front knob and the iron to harden..... and lapping and putting the last bolt into the handle .....snecking .... I'm sure I will think of more to do...


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## Racers (13 Nov 2013)

Very nice!

Do the pins go all the way through?

I was pondering making one using a similar method but taping the sole.

Pete


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## Richard T (13 Nov 2013)

No Pete, the pins go in about 8mm. Sorry I don't have any WIP pics of that bit. 

The countersinking is perhaps a bit of overkill and would do just as well if reamed but it is what I have become used to.


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## AndyT (13 Nov 2013)

Wow, that's a lot of work between one picture and the next - Bravo!

It would be nice to see some photos of it held in your hands, to get a better idea of how big it is and how it might work. In the pictures, the front knob looks rather tall - but I expect that is by design, so it clears the tallish sides enough to be gripped - is that right?


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## Richard T (13 Nov 2013)

The knob is still very much experimental Andy - the first one was even taller ... I've only just worked out how to best use the Myford s7 for turning wood - very interesting tool rest. So I will keep going 'til I have something I am happy with. It's very hard for me to judge for some reason. the one I made for the prototype was carved and I got just what I wanted. Probably something to do with not looking at it sideways. 





Prototype and Mk1 side by side.

I had hoped I had ironed out all the mistakes with the first one - like brass does not rivet, so have to turn the screws from grip - size bar etc. 

I will try to get some photos showing size ... I _think_it is 8" long. 'Smoother' length anyhow. Iron is 2" wide,1/4" thick and 7 - 1/2" long.


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## rileytoolworks (13 Nov 2013)

Wow. Excellent.
I can't wait to see more.

Adam.


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## RossJarvis (13 Nov 2013)

Lovely bit of work. It's great seeing the quality of tools people are making, that looks a top job


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## Jinx (13 Nov 2013)

Very skilful


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## Sheffield Tony (13 Nov 2013)

Nice. How thick is that iron ? It looks rather solid !


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## Richard T (14 Nov 2013)

Thanks for the kind words folks.

It is a 1/4" thick iron Tony. Not hardened yet - I need to find some peanut oil.

I had a go at yet another knob yesterday and am more happy with this one: Knob the third:









It needs a bit more shaping and sanding but this is a very good starting point. Feels good.


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## xy mosian (14 Nov 2013)

Crikey that looks like good work! How would you compare the ease of making a dovetailed joint against a 'pinned' joint, or t'other way around. My guess would be in favour of the pinned version, Would you agree?
xy


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## rxh (14 Nov 2013)

Excellent - a new way of making planes (at least it's the first time I've seen it). Very nicely done!
I think a No.7 size plane done this way would be rather heavy...  
Obviously the frog is very firmly fixed but I suppose the blade could be moved forward using metal shims if needed.
How is the rear handle attached?
I'm glad to see that the square thread tap and die work OK. I read somewhere that they are tricky to use but maybe that applies to use on steel rather than brass


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## ac445ab (15 Nov 2013)

I like very very much, Richard. This plane has a special look!
I look forward too know the blade hardening process.

Complimenti!
Ciao
Giuliano


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## Richard T (15 Nov 2013)

xy - good point. I would have thought that drilling would be quicker than sawing, chiseling, and filing dovetails but I don't think it is. For a start, there would be eight dovetails per side on a plane this length compared to eleven holes per side in one of these. The sides are drilled with pilot holes first then they have to be marked with just as much precision, the sole and frog pieces clamped just so for marking with the pilot drill before being drilled to the right size. Then all the holes in the three inner pieces are tapped blind. 
With the same amount of cutting out and shaping in the first place, I think it takes just as long.

There are a few advantages though. When you 'do up' the dovetails on a dovetailed plane there is a point to stop hammering that is when all the gaps are closed up and before the moved metal starts pushing the sides inwards. As you can't see exactly when the gaps are filled until you file away the metal you are using to fill them, it is inevitable that you will er on the 'safe' side and start to tilt the sides inwards.
With this plane it will stay square no matter how far you go with peining. The worst that could happen would be to rip the thread of the pins ... I haven't managed that yet. 
Also the sole is thick enough to drill and tap from the top to fix in handle and knob fixings so it does not have to be infilled and is exempt from all the problems associated with that. Just a free - standing handle and knob. 

Of course the thickness of the sole means that this plane is far from versatile. It has only one use - that of a dedicated smoother. You can't put a camber on it and whiz it about.  

rxh - Ron Brese makes one that is 13 - 1/2" long ... a panel I guess but I don't think I will. I think I will stick to infills for longer planes. 

The handle is morticed underneath that has a 45 degree angle at the back. A steel tenon is screwed to the sole, also angled at the back. The mortice is long enough for the handle to be pushed on from above the slid forward until the angles engage. When they do, the front of the handle is flush with the back of the frog plate and two 6mm bolts are through the frog plate into it. You _would_ ask wouldn't you ?  I'll try to get some pictures of that.

The tap and die are a joy to use (on brass anyway) but were a pig to make. I ordered them in June and these are the second attempt. I have been informed that he will not make me any more square threads and if I ever need any more I can have acme. Lends an extra uniqueness to them I 'spose.

Thanks Giuliano - I am looking everywhere for enough peanut oil for quenching. I heard that was good for 01 steel.


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## Sheffield Tony (15 Nov 2013)

Richard T":39zniguy said:


> Thanks Giuliano - I am looking everywhere for enough peanut oil for quenching. I heard that was good for 01 steel.



I was interested by the mention of peanut oil, tell me more ! I know that some favour cooking oil; but why specifically peanut intrigues me. You presumably need quite a big pot of it, as you want to lower the iron in vertically. I guess a lower viscosity oil speeds convection cooling, and it is nice if it doesn't make noxious fumes. But having said that I hardened a couple of O1 plane cutters in castrol GTX the other day, and it seemed to do the job !


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## Racers (15 Nov 2013)

Hi Richard

I use old engine oil, its mostly fully synthetic from my motor bike, it seems to work o/k.

Pete


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## Richard T (15 Nov 2013)

Tony - it's mainly to do with not fumigating the neighbours so much but I did read recently (can't remember where) that it was good for quenching. 

I have quenched smaller blades in motor oil in the past and found the smoke and stink to be awful. I suppose I'd just rather make a smell like a restaurant accident than a car crash. 

I have bought ten blanks of 01 so the first will be an experiment. If I find I can't soak the relevant area properly with the forge I might look at getting them hardened by a firm that the chaps who made the tap and die use.


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## xy mosian (15 Nov 2013)

Richard, thank you for that very detailed description of both procedures. I have done a little 'blind hole' tapping and can appreciate any careful nervousness. Keep up the extremely good work please!
As for peanut oil, if a different nut would do walnut oil seems to be available.
xy


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## Sheffield Tony (15 Nov 2013)

Groundnut oil is the same stuff, and is one of the cheaper cooking oils in the supermarkets. £4 per litre at T***o. Even their produce is probably ok for this use !


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## Richard T (18 Nov 2013)

Thanks Tony - but they've not got it in our Tenko's apparently. Rang them today. I will try Rapeseed I expect.

The knob has cleaned up alright: 





Here is a picture of it being modeled Andy: 





Sorry about the doublet and hose. 

Something I forgot to mention before is that the grain of the wood in the handle runs straight along the horn and then changes direction to run down the handle. 





I thought that this might only be possible with wood from a crotch section but I found a magical plank a MacTimbers 
the time before last. I hope to get 5 or 6 out of it.

Also, the way the sides and sole merge. I decide to merge both so that the edge of the sole gets angled out and the ends of the sides get angled in.





If only I could focus the @&$*** camera on it ....


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## tobytools (18 Nov 2013)

It looks a bit like a plane by Bayfield 

Just under half way down
https://www.thebestthings.com/infill.htm

Amazing richard 
10/10 

How much would one of those cost a man who can't make planes ?

TT


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## Richard T (19 Nov 2013)

Thanks Toby,

I had not heard of Bayfield before,... for some reason the big picture won't work for me. 

When it is finished it will cost a man who can't make planes just as much as a man who can.


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## Richard T (25 Nov 2013)

I hardened the iron.

Apologies in advance for the awful photography but I had a lot on my mind.  

Kindling the forge and getting the iron used to the idea of what is about to happen to it.





Much pumping later and a good working heat. The colour in this blurred photo is also way off. I do not have a pink forge.





We had gone out and bought 3ltr of Rapeseed oil and I had washed out, cut down and rolled the edges of a 5ltr motor oil can.





I heated a bit of steel up to a dull red (again, picture miles out) and I let it cool to black before stirring the oil with it.





I made the fire the right shape and size and put the iron on top flat side down and heated slowly until the right temperature was evident by colour. 





This .... was just coming up to a bright red and not what the camera seems to think was an accident in the fires of Mordor....





I quenched it very successfully (no time for a photo) and after cleaning the oil off it put it in the oven at gas mark 6 for an hour. 
The trouble with heating on top of the coke is that when it gets to temperature it relaxes into the surface...





... and picks up a cokey imprint. Lovely pattern - hell to get flat. It took me the whole of Saturday evening - including Dr. Who - and I hadn't finished it. It's very close now though.





Something else that slipped my mind was the scale. Before I hardened it, the iron would not pass through the mouth. After hardening and the loss of thickness through scale, it is just about perfect and I won't need to file the mouth. 





No matter how much procrastinating and worrying I do, there is always something to be forgotten or not thought about in the first place. Now to lap it, sneck it and grind the bevel ....


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## marcros (25 Nov 2013)

Richard,

Is the amount of scale predictable (to a professional)? Out of interest- I am never likely to have a go at this!

Mark


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## Richard T (25 Nov 2013)

Not really Mark - not accurately anyway. All you can be sure of is that when steel is heated to red hot or past it, there will be scale. 
The only way to be sure in this case would be to finish all the irons first before assembling the plane. In this case though, it has turned out just right.


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## vitto (25 Nov 2013)

“Sorry about the doublet and hose”
Richard as the God of fire Vulcan  

great job Richard, even the handle is very nice =D> 

Ciao Vittorio


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## pedder (25 Nov 2013)

Hi Richard,

thank you very much for the documentation! Lot to learn. I wonder how exactly the holes need to be drilled. (Really german grammar, isn't it?). 

I love the metal part of this plane (the flueing front is great!) and think you could refine the shapes of the wooden parts a bit. Just for the eyes not for the hands.

Cheers
Pedder


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## Richard T (25 Nov 2013)

Thanks Vittorio 

I am only half Vulcan.  

Thanks Pedder - which holes do you mean? 

The next one will have a slightly thinner back handle and a less aggressive cut away under the front knob. The shape of the handle cannot change too much because of the way it is attached; ( bolts into the front of it and a mortise underneath).


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## ac445ab (25 Nov 2013)

Thank you for pics, Richard! Great job


Richard T":ay5po8u0 said:


> I
> 
> I quenched it very successfully (no time for a photo) and after cleaning the oil off it put it in the oven at gas mark 6 for an hour.
> The trouble with heating on top of the coke is that when it gets to temperature it relaxes into the surface...



Gas mark 6 for an hour :?: Are time and temperature critical at this step?


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## Sheffield Tony (26 Nov 2013)

Timing is critical in this, especially if you hardened it in engine oil and didn't clean it all off property - It must be done when your wife is out !


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## Corneel (26 Nov 2013)

Marvelous job Richard. But the real question of course, did it work? Did the iron become nice and hard?


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## Richard T (26 Nov 2013)

Hi Guiliano - yes, it's the tempering process. When the iron is hardened it is as hard and as brittle as glass and needs to be re heated to a light brown 'straw' colour to make it less brittle. With 01 steel this happens at 400f which can be (quite) accurately done on the top shelf of the oven at gas mark 6. I could have done it in the fire but there is such a large, hard area that 'soaking' for a long time at that temperature is much safer. 

Vegetable oil is much more conducive to marital harmony Tony - you can pretend you're cooking. :shock: 

Yes Corneel, it's hard. The file skates beautifully and all subsequent work is very hard work. I have snecked it and nearly got the edges to meet using my diamond plate. I'll post some pictures later.


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## Richard T (26 Nov 2013)

I had made a sneck earlier, waiting for the iron to be hardened.





The camera's batteries gave up at the riveting stage but were revived when back in the house.





Diamond plate work on the face





and on the bevel.





They will meet soon. I hope.


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## AndyT (26 Nov 2013)

Looking good!

(Not so sure about the carpet...;-))


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## Cheshirechappie (26 Nov 2013)

AndyT":12kpzcxd said:


> Looking good!
> 
> (Not so sure about the carpet...;-))




Agree - that's well on it's way to being a quite superb smoother.

(The carpet was a deep pile one until he passed the plane over it!)


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## pedder (26 Nov 2013)

Richard T":2cwbuo1d said:


> Thanks Pedder - which holes do you mean?



Hi Peter, the holes for attaching the sole to the sides. I've seen thre men sweating a lot at a Infillworkshop in Summer while peening the dovetails. Much Power was needed. I could imagine drilling gives less stress to the body tahn peening. And I wonder if it dan be done on my cheapo drillstand.

Cheers
Pedder


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## Richard T (27 Nov 2013)

Hi Pedder,

I first drill all the holes through both of the sides clamped together as small pilot holes - about 1.5mm. Then I clamp each sole piece to one of the sides and spot through with the same 1.5mm drill. When it is all spotted, I drill out the holes in the sole and frog at 5mm for tapping about 10mm deep. The holes in the sides are opened up to 6mm for the 6mm rod to pass through. 

The most important thing about the pillar drill used is its accuracy. The table needs to be square to the drill bit and the drill vice needs to hold each piece square too. 

I countersank the outer sides of the holes to pein the rivet heads into at 60 degrees. I'm sure these could be just flared with a taper reamer though and would be less piening and just as strong.

Thanks Andy. Thanks CC. The deal is: when I sell a plane .... I buy a carpet. 8)


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## Corneel (28 Nov 2013)

Another point to watch for with your pillar drill is the table deflecting under the pressure. I have a quite solid looking one, but it's just Chinese rubbish, so it bends a bit out of square when I'm drilling. Of course you shouldn't lean hard on the drill, but you know how these things happen... So when it needs to be ultra precise I put an old car jack under the table for extra support.


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## jimi43 (28 Nov 2013)

Superb work Richard!!

It's like a plane on steroids! I love super thick steel especially on the iron which is a work of art and has a sneck which is one of my most favourite designs of the old plane irons...normally only found on the mitres and little chariots.

On the tempering, I assume you raised the oven to gas mark 6 and then turned off and allowed to cool for that part? Did I miss something in the scan of your text?

I have a queue of soft irons waiting for the kiln...it's so much faffing about that I want to do it all in one sitting. I have a proper probe/thermometer now so I can get it accurately at 780-820 degs but I just quench in chip oil. Mr Cain says it's dangerous to quench in old motor oil because of petroleum impurities which could ignite and I have to say it's frightening enough in chip oil in a large vat!

I look forward to seeing how that mighty iron cuts...with the inertia of that much steel it should wipe the floor with even the most stubborn grain.

Keep up the superb work and I promise I will finish the grand Richard T panel soon....once the comets are gone! I have to say it's getting harder to get out in the cold these days!

Cheers mate

Jimi


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## Richard T (29 Nov 2013)

Blimey Jim - I thought you must have locked yourself in the observatory and that I'd have to make nothing less than a jointer to lure you out.  
The sole is very slightly thicker than Ron Brese's but Karl's still look thicker to me. 

I am _still_ trying to meet the face and bevel on the iron. I must get a decent grinding wheel of a good diameter.

I preheated to gas mark 6, baked for an hour and took it out of the oven. This is a non - critical heat change; at school I was taught to quench here, as seen in Tony's axe making thread. 

It was quite a relief that the only flame I got with the chip oil was coming off the gas from the bubbles and not the whole mass of it. It had only been pre warmed and was not hot. Maybe worth thinking about not doing too many in quick succession or it might well get too hot ... ? 

I'm quite surprised that no one has mentioned that planes like this 'don't have snecks' or maybe they do? I've never seen one but I don't know why. I have seen lots of gorgeous, non adjuster planes that one would not dream of tapping with a mallet ... how to retract? Dunno. Still, it's the first iron and an experiment. 

Back to grinding - and early onset Arthur Rightus...


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## Sheffield Tony (29 Nov 2013)

jimi43":lyiczple said:


> Mr Cain says it's dangerous to quench in old motor oil because of petroleum impurities which could ignite and I have to say it's frightening enough in chip oil in a large vat.


I hasten to add that when I said I used castrol GTX I meant new, clean engine oil. Never used ! Used motor oil is full of corrosive, carcinogenic rubbish and is fit for nothing but proper disposal / recycling. I'm sure vegetable oil is nicer to use.


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## jimi43 (29 Nov 2013)

Richard T":1qqtlui3 said:


> Blimey Jim - I thought you must have locked yourself in the observatory and that I'd have to make nothing less than a jointer to lure you out.
> The sole is very slightly thicker than Ron Brese's but Karl's still look thicker to me.
> 
> I am _still_ trying to meet the face and bevel on the iron. I must get a decent grinding wheel of a good diameter.
> ...



HA! Actually Richard...in between the building of the observatory proper (click to see so as not to hijack thread)....I have actually made a super thick iron for it..(no sneck!). Real men know how to gently release lever pressure and wiggle!!! :mrgreen: 

I have also distracted Douglas by dragging him to Morgan Timber and purchasing the most amazing slab of Tulipwood and get him to make the doors (click to see doors)

So I am still working in wood inside the "warm room"...just not the delicate stuff you need for plane making!

I have to make an adjustable spokeshave blade...the one with the thin slicer with the pillars of threaded iron at each end. That'll be a laugh too!

I guess I do the iron hardening a different way..ala Tubal Cain. O1 steel heated to 780 degrees for 1 hr/inch thickness and then swift slide into room temperature chip oil...then into 250 deg oven in the "off" mode and allow to cool to room temp at the speed of the oven. Seems to work pretty good. I only really do one iron at the time and the oil is in a huge vat which should be more than adequate. I doubt the temp of the oil rises much at all during the run.

Anyway...love your new projects...must chat about one I have with a guy in Sheffield on iron lamination...might make an interesting discussion.

Cheers

Jimi


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## Richard T (7 Dec 2013)

I have been lapping the sole. 5 strips of double sided tape each time to hold down paper off a wide, 5m roll. A real waste of tape. After 6 goes I am maybe only half way there.

After many minutes of frustrating Googling, my searches for 'self adhesive abrasive/emery etc' have come to nought but disks.

What I really want is a nice, wide roll of sticky backed stuff like Frank Klaus uses for lapping and water stone flattening. Is it just an Americorn ferrnominum? 

Does anyone know off hand where such a thing may be bought from - in the UK if poss.?


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## Racers (8 Dec 2013)

Hi Richard 

This is my set up for lapping, no tape needed its just pulled tight and flat by the clamps.








Pete


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## Richard T (8 Dec 2013)

Thanks Pete 

Don't you find it rucks up a bit? When I have tried this in the past it has always moved and rounded the job a little until I started to stick it down. Or does your ingenious use of stretch - clampage stop this from happening? 

I could have easily rigged up a clamped operation on the marble table top I have been using but I notice this morning that my Mother has thoughtfully covered it in Geraniums. I will employ the table I took off the band saw if I can find room somewhere. .


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## Racers (9 Dec 2013)

Hi Richard

Its pulled very tight by the clamps no rippling at all. 
I leave it on the role and just pull an fresh length through when its worn.

Pete


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