# Oil and wax for hand tools?



## sploo (3 Dec 2015)

I've seen a few references to using "oil and wax" on the wooden parts of hand tools - notably someone talking about removing the shiny varnish from the handles on a Veritas router plane as he preferred the feel of the oil and wax combination.

What I don't know is - what type of oil and wax? I have a variety of oils and waxes, but I suspect that 3-in-1 followed by Liberon lubricating wax isn't what he meant :wink: 

The reason for asking is that I scored an old Stanley No 4 1/2 from FleaBay and I'd like to do something with the handles to make them look nice, but also practical for use.


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## NazNomad (3 Dec 2015)

Assuming (probably incorrectly) a mineral oil & beeswax formula, akin to this http://www.woodworkersguide.com/2010/01 ... for-cheap/


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## marcros (3 Dec 2015)

i would suggest something simple like boiled linseed oil, and then a coat of microcrystalline wax.


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## D_W (3 Dec 2015)

Linseed oil (or tung oil) and paste wax. You can either mix the two or make some concoction with oil, wax and a solvent or you can just oil (let dry) then wax. 

I've always oiled planes several times and then waxed them before the oil is dry (it takes less effort and discipline than waiting for the oil to dry). I oil until the wood has no more dry spots, wax, then oil and wax again. After a few days, the oil and wax are dry and it's no big deal if you use the plane before they are.

The only compromise is that you will not have everclean handles if you use wax and oil. Maybe not much of an issue if you're using rosewood handles, but the handles in my made planes have become pretty gross looking.

If you like a more sticky less dry feel, use beeswax instead of paste wax.


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## sploo (3 Dec 2015)

Interesting & thanks for the replies.



NazNomad":2jrlatk6 said:


> Assuming (probably incorrectly) a mineral oil & beeswax formula, akin to this http://www.woodworkersguide.com/2010/01 ... for-cheap/


I have mineral oil (used for chopping boards) and beeswax, and indeed a mix of warmed mineral oil and beeswax just as above that I made as a safe coating for children's toys. They don't dry that well though.

I have a tin of furniture wax that I've used in the past on top of shellac (for furniture and jewellery boxes). As that seems to dry well (and feels nice to the touch) could I use that wax on top of mineral oil? I don't currently own any linseed or tung oil (and have never used either).


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## AndyT (3 Dec 2015)

One of the advantages of boiled linseed oil is that it's cheap - currently £3.50 for 500ml in my local hardware shop. It lasts indefinitely and is economical in use. Hardly a big investment in the average tool kit.


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## John15 (4 Dec 2015)

After sanding I've done the handles on a couple of my planes with two coats of Liberon Finishing Oil. It buffs up well and looks good. I haven't used any wax.

John


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## ED65 (4 Dec 2015)

I've used blended oil and wax finishes for various tool handles and the occasional project. I'm a big fan of it for certain handles that need a lot of grip like files and awls, but it needs to be applied to bare wood to work right. 

Wax on top of other finishes is obviously very common and many woodworkers who wax their tools to keep rust at bay will also apply it over the handles prior to buffing to a shine. 

I don't think there's any good reason to apply mineral oil to a tool handle any more than there is to apply 3-in-One, which is also mineral oil.



sploo":2jpv3zlp said:


> I have mineral oil (used for chopping boards) and beeswax, and indeed a mix of warmed mineral oil and beeswax just as above that I made as a safe coating for children's toys. They don't dry that well though.


Hardly surprising as mineral oil doesn't dry and wax is softish to begin with. Oil and wax blends are famously soft and that's even where a drying oil is used (one that goes hard on its own).



sploo":2jpv3zlp said:


> I don't currently own any linseed or tung oil (and have never used either).


Highly recommend picking up some BLO. Very er 'handy' to have around!


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## bugbear (4 Dec 2015)

sploo":e6t9cjgn said:


> The reason for asking is that I scored an old Stanley No 4 1/2 from FleaBay and I'd like to do something with the handles to make them look nice, but also practical for use.



I would recommend some kind of oil-varnish mix, to bring out the grain, but also to provide a level of protection greater than wax.

Danish Oil (3-5 wiped on thin coats) is the obvious one, but I've had really good results with Liberon Finishing Oil.

I've used this on Ash, Hickory, Rosewood and Mahogany handles with good results.

I suppose a dozen or more wiped on coats of BLO would also work, or even raw linseed, if you've the patience of a saint!

BugBear


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## AndyT (4 Dec 2015)

Oh and let's not forget Tru-Oil. It's derived from linseed oil but dries quicker and goes harder. Nice and tough for handles - it's sold for use on gunstocks. Search the hand tools section for lots of enthusiastic mentions and pictures of shiny handles from Jimi who drew it to everyone's attention on here a few years ago.


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## sploo (4 Dec 2015)

AndyT":bekk02hf said:


> One of the advantages of boiled linseed oil is that it's cheap - currently £3.50 for 500ml in my local hardware shop. It lasts indefinitely and is economical in use. Hardly a big investment in the average tool kit.





John15":bekk02hf said:


> After sanding I've done the handles on a couple of my planes with two coats of Liberon Finishing Oil. It buffs up well and looks good. I haven't used any wax.





bugbear":bekk02hf said:


> I would recommend some kind of oil-varnish mix, to bring out the grain, but also to provide a level of protection greater than wax.
> 
> Danish Oil (3-5 wiped on thin coats) is the obvious one, but I've had really good results with Liberon Finishing Oil.
> 
> ...





AndyT":bekk02hf said:


> Oh and let's not forget Tru-Oil. It's derived from linseed oil but dries quicker and goes harder. Nice and tough for handles - it's sold for use on gunstocks. Search the hand tools section for lots of enthusiastic mentions and pictures of shiny handles from Jimi who drew it to everyone's attention on here a few years ago.



It sounds like I have a large variety of options - though most of which I don't currently own :wink: 

I've heard of linseed oil being used but never looked into why/on what you'd use it.

I've had good experiences with Liberon products so I'll look into the finishing oil too.

Danish oil I've obviously heard of, but again never used. Is the difference between it and linseed that the Danish would dry quicker (possibly due to the varnish component)?

I've heard of Tru-oil, but again never used. Lots to learn I think!


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## Racers (4 Dec 2015)

I use raw linseed oil on gardening tools axe handles etc.
I made an AWO cill for my patio doors and coated in raw linseed oil and its standing up very well to the weather (wife leaves the door open in the rain) and wear.

Pete


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## sploo (4 Dec 2015)

Racers":pd92o360 said:


> I use raw linseed oil on gardening tools axe handles etc.
> I made an AWO cill for my patio doors and coated in raw linseed oil and its standing up very well to the weather (wife leaves the door open in the rain) and wear.
> 
> Pete


Funny you mention that positive, as I've been reading up a bit more on the various options, and linseed is the one that tends to get a lot of "it's OK, but..." type comments. Generally I see recommendations for mixing it with something else (e.g. a bit of varnish), but I guess that's kinda then Danish oil.

I see I can get Tru-Oil on amazon, and its primary application (gun stock finish) is arguably not dissimilar to plane handles (i.e. will be handled, will get sweat and acid etc from skin).

I was trying to work out the difference between Liberon's Finishing oil and their Danish oil. On calling them I got a not entirely convincing set of answers (mostly someone just reading off their spec sheet, as opposed to something with usage experience). After talking with someone else they came back and recommended Teak oil as the best for my application. So now I'm just confused!

The problem I have is that I don't have relevant bits of whatever timber will be used for the plane handle, so I can't experiment. I don't mind buying several products to learn, but obviously don't want to apply something then regret it.


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## Racers (4 Dec 2015)

I thought they where all much of a muchness, Teak oil BLO Danish etc.

The minimum for plane handles is paste wax, Renaissance wax is very good but any wax will do, the Wood Silk spray has loads of wax in a quick spray and buff works wonders.
Before Wood Silk.



30th August by Racers, on Flickr

After.



Marking gauges by Racers, on Flickr

Pete


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## AndyT (4 Dec 2015)

I see that you have identified the most frustrating problem about finishes in general - the names that manufacturers give their products are inconsistent and sometimes downright misleading! Afaik Danish oil is generally a mix of boiled linseed oil and varnish, but the proportions and type of varnish can vary maker by maker, so my experience of it may be quite different from yours. 

I don't think there is any 'standard' definition of teak oil except 'something sold as suitable to put on teak furniture'.

A browse through the Finishing section will bear this out.

For many hobby woodworkers, it's easier to choose one finish for everything, rather than try to understand what all the products offered to us consist of and would be good for.


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## sploo (4 Dec 2015)

Racers":21gymsce said:


> I thought they where all much of a muchness, Teak oil BLO Danish etc.
> 
> The minimum for plane handles is paste wax, Renaissance wax is very good but any wax will do, the Wood Silk spray has loads of wax in a quick spray and buff works wonders.





AndyT":21gymsce said:


> I see that you have identified the most frustrating problem about finishes in general - the names that manufacturers give their products are inconsistent and sometimes downright misleading! Afaik Danish oil is generally a mix of boiled linseed oil and varnish, but the proportions and type of varnish can vary maker by maker, so my experience of it may be quite different from yours.


Indeed - it's difficult to identify "what" is "what"!

BTW Why a wax for plane handles (not just oil) and why oil before wax? I understand shellac before wax is about sealing the wood. Is the use of oil for similar reasons?


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## Racers (4 Dec 2015)

Wax and oil are both finishes, the oil lasts longer them wax but the wax is a thinner coating so you are closer to the wood.

Pete


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## D_W (4 Dec 2015)

this is something that can easily be overanalyzed. 

Strip the handle on a tool, put some oil and wax on it and let it dry (if it's a drying type) or not (if it's not) and see if you like it. 

Aside from non drying or drying, it doesn't really matter too much. 

My only side suggestion is if you absolutely have to have clean handles, put a light coat of shellac on after the oil dries and before the wax. It won't look as nice, but the handles won't get dirty.


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## ED65 (4 Dec 2015)

sploo":264sgepn said:


> Danish oil I've obviously heard of, but again never used. Is the difference between it and linseed that the Danish would dry quicker (possibly due to the varnish component)?


Yes that type of product will tend to dry faster and more reliably than BLO because of the varnish, but also because of the heavy dilution. It'll also build shine more quickly, again due to the varnish. Some people specifically don't want this which is why they'd be more in favour of just oil, as used on most early woodies.

If I need anything like this I like to make my own, partly so that I don't have to pay an exorbitant amount for what I know is a simple mixture but also I can make it less dilute than the commercial versions. 



sploo":264sgepn said:


> I don't mind buying several products to learn, but obviously don't want to apply something then regret it.


I doubt you'd have any cause for regret, worst comes to worst you can always go back to bare wood if you had to, I doubt you'd want to though. I'm not sure if anyone has said this in the thread. but linseed oil makes most woods look _amazing _and it's one of the reasons it's still around despite pure oil finishes being largely superseded by commercial varnishes. Many of my earliest projects got a few coats of BLO and then an application of paste wax later on, and I'd have no hesitation about recommending this as a finish for any sound hardwood.

If you went with linseed (raw or BLO) first and then decide you don't like how it looks there's no bar to applying varnish on top, or any oil and varnish blend, or wax.


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## Vann (4 Dec 2015)

IIRC there's a problem applying BLO to rosewood - in that it turns the rosewood so dark you loose the grain.

I apply a number of coats of BLO to most handles (except rosewood), then when the handle won't absorb much more BLO I give it a couple of days before applying "Black Bison" wax. For rosewood I go directly to the wax.

There are better finishes, but this works for me, 'though I'm not a heavy user of my tools.

Cheers, Vann.


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## D_W (4 Dec 2015)

Vann":1873t3ec said:


> IIRC there's a problem applying BLO to rosewood - in that it turns the rosewood so dark you loose the grain.
> 
> I apply a number of coats of BLO to most handles (except rosewood), then when the handle won't absorb much more BLO I give it a couple of days before applying "Black Bison" wax. For rosewood I go directly to the wax.
> 
> ...



I like the handles to look dark (more stock looking) and use BLO on rosewood due to that, but certainly someone wanting a more natural look won't like it. 

Same thing on beech, where you could apply something thin without BLO - I like that the BLO darkens the wood tone and makes it look a little more warm, as brand new bright beech can look a little too "IKEA".


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## Racers (4 Dec 2015)

My knives in my avatar are much darker now the Cocobolo is now nearly a uniform brown colour they have a couple of coats of Danish oil.

Pete


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## D_W (4 Dec 2015)

Racers":36afpub7 said:


> My knives in my avatar are much darker now the Cocobolo is now nearly a uniform brown colour they have a couple of coats of Danish oil.
> 
> Pete



Presume it's inevitable. The only thing that I ever finished that got dark over time and that I didn't like was an infill made of bois de rose. It was a beautiful deep reddish brown, and it took very little time to for it to become a uniform brown. I wish I would've saved the piece of wood, but I thought it was cocobolo and I didn't have enough sense to know otherwise.


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## Cheshirechappie (4 Dec 2015)

Danish oil for me. Three thin coats, wiped on, about 6 hours between each, then a vigorous burnish with a soft cloth after about 24 hours. I did try brushing it on once; this gave a thicker coat which took about a week to cure. One advantage of Danish for me is that it starts to develop a patina quite quickly in service, though some may not like this. It also leaves the tool having a definite 'wood' feeling, and it can easily be rubbed down and re-coated at any time. Because the coats are thin, a tin lasts a long time - I'm still using one I bought about a decade ago (and it would have lasted even longer if I hadn't knocked the tin over and spilled a goodly dollop of it last year!).

There are so many individual preferences for tool finishes (wax, oils, varnishes, shellac, lacquers, and mixtures thereof) that it's impossible to say that any are 'right' or 'wrong'. Some people like the hard, durable surface of lacquer or varnish, other the softer feel and appearance of oils. Personally, I dislike varnishes, finding them too slick and 'plasticy', and find they tend to kill the 'wood' feeling, but others do like them, and who am I to say they're wrong?


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## bugbear (4 Dec 2015)

Cheshirechappie":2ylgnmcc said:


> Danish oil for me. Three thin coats, wiped on, about 6 hours between each, then a vigorous burnish with a soft cloth after about 24 hours. I did try brushing it on once; this gave a thicker coat which took about a week to cure. One advantage of Danish for me is that it starts to develop a patina quite quickly in service, though some may not like this. It also leaves the tool having a definite 'wood' feeling, and it can easily be rubbed down and re-coated at any time. Because the coats are thin, a tin lasts a long time - I'm still using one I bought about a decade ago (and it would have lasted even longer if I hadn't knocked the tin over and spilled a goodly dollop of it last year!).
> 
> There are so many individual preferences for tool finishes (wax, oils, varnishes, shellac, lacquers, and mixtures thereof) that it's impossible to say that any are 'right' or 'wrong'. Some people like the hard, durable surface of lacquer or varnish, other the softer feel and appearance of oils. Personally, I dislike varnishes, finding them too slick and 'plasticy', and find they tend to kill the 'wood' feeling, but others do like them, and who am I to say they're wrong?



I agree with pretty much the gist of everything you say, but Danish "Oil" has a proportion of varnish in it!

BugBear


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## Cheshirechappie (5 Dec 2015)

bugbear":1r32jf92 said:


> Cheshirechappie":1r32jf92 said:
> 
> 
> > Danish oil for me. Three thin coats, wiped on, about 6 hours between each, then a vigorous burnish with a soft cloth after about 24 hours. I did try brushing it on once; this gave a thicker coat which took about a week to cure. One advantage of Danish for me is that it starts to develop a patina quite quickly in service, though some may not like this. It also leaves the tool having a definite 'wood' feeling, and it can easily be rubbed down and re-coated at any time. Because the coats are thin, a tin lasts a long time - I'm still using one I bought about a decade ago (and it would have lasted even longer if I hadn't knocked the tin over and spilled a goodly dollop of it last year!).
> ...



Indeed so! I've no idea what the proportion is in my particular tin, but the finish it gives is nearer to 'oil only' than 'varnish only', so I assume it's a greater proportion of oil than varnish. Nice finish for a tool handle, whatever it is.


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## sploo (5 Dec 2015)

OK. You guys have convinced me - Danish oil it is then 

Question is: do I apply wax over the top or leave it with just the oil?


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## AndyT (6 Dec 2015)

sploo":3hd8nw5v said:


> OK. You guys have convinced me - Danish oil it is then
> 
> Question is: do I apply wax over the top or leave it with just the oil?



Either. It really doesn't matter. Add wax and buff it if you like shiny things.


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## Cheshirechappie (6 Dec 2015)

AndyT":3t6krufm said:


> sploo":3t6krufm said:
> 
> 
> > OK. You guys have convinced me - Danish oil it is then
> ...



Agreed! Whichever you prefer.

It's often a good idea to try out finishes on a few pieces of scrap (especially for any job of consequence in a timber you're not familiar with). In this case, a couple of wooden file handles, or a piece of dowelling would do. Try both unwaxed and waxed, and see which is better to your hand.

(Must admit that I prefer unwaxed for tool handles, but for something a bit more decorative and ornamental, waxed can look superb and the aroma is lovely.)


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## sploo (6 Dec 2015)

AndyT":2qcy05v9 said:


> Either. It really doesn't matter. Add wax and buff it if you like shiny things.


I'm originally from the Birmingham area; if it's shiny, we'll nick it. I like shiny :wink: 




Cheshirechappie":2qcy05v9 said:


> It's often a good idea to try out finishes on a few pieces of scrap (especially for any job of consequence in a timber you're not familiar with). In this case, a couple of wooden file handles, or a piece of dowelling would do. Try both unwaxed and waxed, and see which is better to your hand.
> 
> (Must admit that I prefer unwaxed for tool handles, but for something a bit more decorative and ornamental, waxed can look superb and the aroma is lovely.)


The problem is that I don't think I'll have a suitable example wood on which to test out the finish. TBH I don't even know exactly what wood the original handles were made from


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## woodbrains (7 Dec 2015)

Hello,

Just a bit of info that might be useful. Technically paste wax and the like IS an oil finish, so is compatible with Danish oil et al, before after or between applications. Linseed oil darkens with the absence of light. Use BLO or Danish oil with a high proportion of linseed and keep that plane in a cupboard, the handle will get very dark indeed. Rosewood handles become almost totally black. Exposing to bright sunlight-light reverses the darkening to some extent, but not completely. I would avoid linseed oil if the wood colour is important.

Mike.


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## ED65 (7 Dec 2015)

woodbrains":2al3sup4 said:


> Technically paste wax and the like IS an oil finish


How's that exactly? I can't speak to every version but most are just waxes and solvent to soften.

The points about linseed oil darkening in your post is great info but I wanted to clarify this given all the existing confusion surrounding a few other products as already discussed in the thread.

I also wouldn't recommend wax under or between coats of any spirit-borne oil finish as it'll reduce durability. The effect may not be excessive, but it's worth knowing about for a high-wear item like a tool handle.


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## Jacob (7 Dec 2015)

Raw linseed oil for tools. Thinned with real turps (smells nice) or white spirit. Just splash it on all over, wood and metal. On wood it polishes up very nicely with use. On metal it leaves a thin rust protective layer which rubs off on soles etc.


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## arnoldmason8 (7 Dec 2015)

Hi All --- My preferred method of refinishing tool handles is to remove existing finish as required, wipe on a couple of coats of french polish with a cloth and let it harden and then rub on some Black Bisson wax with synthetic steel wool, let the wax harden and then polish off with a cloth. This is fine for saw handles and plane handles but can be a bit slippery for chisel handles until the finish wears a bit.

Regards --------- Arnold


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## Jelly (7 Dec 2015)

ED65":2w9snrd2 said:


> woodbrains":2w9snrd2 said:
> 
> 
> > Technically paste wax and the like IS an oil finish
> ...



I can see where he's coming from in that waxes, oils, resins and solvents are all organic compounds (some natural some hydrocarbon derived)and thus are mutually soluble... By mixing them in various proportions you can achieve vastly differing results, (see more or less the entire coatings industry).

Drying oils are bit awkward in that fully hydrocarbon materials are soluble in the oil, but once it starts to polymerise they'll form inclusions if they're not volatile enough to evaporate off. Organic chemicals which are closer to those found in the natural world (Specifically alcohols, fatty acids, some ketones, some aromatic compounds, and numerous others) will react with the oil to produce a different polymer to the pure oil, and depending on the properties of the materials added softer or harder.


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## D_W (7 Dec 2015)

Jacob":2o26wll8 said:


> Raw linseed oil for tools. Thinned with real turps (smells nice) or white spirit. Just splash it on all over, wood and metal. On wood it polishes up very nicely with use. On metal it leaves a thin rust protective layer which rubs off on soles etc.



Raw or boiled, big fan either way. I think the way linseed oil polishes if you give it the time to dry is really under-appreciated, and it doesn't end up making a finish that cracks or flakes off later. 

Especially if the start is bare or sanded to bare wood (most of my older planes are more in need of the oil than my newly-made planes - all are beech).


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## Jelly (7 Dec 2015)

D_W":2sxuuiu5 said:


> Jacob":2sxuuiu5 said:
> 
> 
> > Raw linseed oil for tools. Thinned with real turps (smells nice) or white spirit. Just splash it on all over, wood and metal. On wood it polishes up very nicely with use. On metal it leaves a thin rust protective layer which rubs off on soles etc.
> ...



I'm a fan of Double Boiled (I.e. Stand Oil, not oil with chemical drying agents in it) Linseed, though I suspect it would be form an overly thick and gummy covering on steel parts of tools to use it for Jacob's "coat everything" approach even if thinned.

That coat everything approach is a good one actually, I was sceptical until I tried it...


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## D_W (7 Dec 2015)

Jelly":3dtzdy42 said:


> D_W":3dtzdy42 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":3dtzdy42 said:
> ...



I'll offer some information that is unsolicited. I wouldn't coat the iron, either, though on parts that are in contact with nothing, no big deal. I can imagine that everyone has seen planes that have had varnish or shellac applied to the iron because a user probably got tired of seeing rust, or because a "restorer" did everything. 

On a plane iron when I make a new plane (something I take fairly seriously with the woodies), I clean the back of the iron so that it has nothing on it, same with cap iron and non-bevel side of the iron, and then I wax the top of the cap iron and the wedge so that the bed always has the strongest grip. That ensures that the wedge has the weakest grip and the bed the strongest. Any other way, and sometimes the cap iron moves its setting when adjusting for depth, which is undesirable. (if a cap iron has any burrs or hammer damage on it, then that has to be filed off smoothly). 

So, no finish on the irons other than wax on top of the cap - linseed oil has pretty significant grip - and perhaps light oil anywhere else (which doesn't affect much on wood like wax does). I might change my tune if I was carrying a plane around to job sites where there was less control of moisture and temperature.


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## Bm101 (30 Apr 2016)

Just got some a small takeaway food type container of microcrystaline wax from ebay, when I contacted the seller (a blacksmith) he recommended mixing 100g wax to 500ml white spirit to 100ml raw linseed oil. Heat to 100c then hand held blender on it. I like my necessaries staying where I was born with them so I won't be using the Mrs's blender on the mix. Can anyone advise on the mix ratios though. Sound sensible? I've got various pots ands bottles of BLO, turps, DO etc. Be interested to see if anyone has different mixes etc. I've never used it before. Can it just be warmed up and used on its own? It's for plane handles that I've stripped the varnish from and they've been stained 50/50 with mahogany and dark oak. A mix I stole from one of Alf's posts.
Cheers!
Chris


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## Jacob (30 Apr 2016)

Jelly":1gp76ryy said:


> [.......
> I'm a fan of Double Boiled (I.e. Stand Oil, not oil with chemical drying agents in it) Linseed, though I suspect it would be form an overly thick and gummy covering on steel parts of tools to use it for Jacob's "coat everything" approach even if thinned.......


It would. 
Raw linseed oil (half n half with turps) would not, though you wouldn't want it to settle in pools.
I'm somewhat mystified at the elaborate recipes proposed when there is such a simple and effective solution. I think it's an extension of simple commercialisation where makers claim "new improved" for their products with dubious quasi-magic secret recipes.

Looking at Bm101 formula above, why not chuck in Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing, just to be on the safe side?


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Apr 2016)

I don't know that I would go to the expense of microcrystalline if using a mix like that, I can't really see the benefit. Every year or so when I know I'm not going to need anything I throw all my plane handles and mallets in a bucket of linseed (I don't even look to see which, rlo or blo, I've both), weight them down and leave them for a few days. There's much debate as to what best to do with them but I've always thought any more than that unnecessary.


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## sploo (30 Apr 2016)

Bm101":2r96uy7q said:


> Just got some a small takeaway food type container of microcrystaline wax from ebay, when I contacted the seller (a blacksmith) he recommended mixing 100g wax to 500ml white spirit to 100ml raw linseed oil. Heat to 100c then hand held blender on it. I like my necessaries staying where I was born with them so I won't be using the Mrs's blender on the mix. Can anyone advise on the mix ratios though. Sound sensible? I've got various pots ands bottles of BLO, turps, DO etc. Be interested to see if anyone has different mixes etc. I've never used it before. Can it just be warmed up and used on its own? It's for plane handles that I've stripped the varnish from and they've been stained 50/50 with mahogany and dark oak. A mix I stole from one of Alf's posts.
> Cheers!
> Chris


Can't comment on the mix, as the closest thing I've done (to that sort of mix) is blend mineral oil with beeswax. I may be teaching you to suck eggs - but be rather careful how you heat that mix to 100C; the word "flammability" comes to mind.

Personally I'd shellac and wax if they've already been stained. A couple of coats of thin shellac followed by the microcrystaline and they'll come up looking really nice.


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## Jacob (30 Apr 2016)

Don't forget eye of newt, and do it under a waning moon.


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## Bm101 (30 Apr 2016)

Expense wise, I didnt think it was too bad tbh, fiver for a big lump. Was thinking I would only need a little chunk, maybe 50 pence worth. Might be a quid in total. It's the first time Ive used wax so I was after seeing the results really.
And yeh, the word 'flammable' came to my mind too. Being a blacksmith I'm guessing he's a pyro anyway. Think i'll melt a bit to see. 
I don't doubt there's easier options. I've got some in the shed. Sometimes it's just nice to try something out.
Jacob if you buy a new TV do you ask if its got a black and white option. Colour is an unnecessary luxury. You can see the pictures in black and white after all and that's what we always did before fancypants types started watching colour tv. Show offs the lot of em.


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## Vann (30 Apr 2016)

Jacob":19v0ipsz said:


> ...why not chuck in Eye of newt, and toe of frog, Wool of bat, and tongue of dog, Adder's fork, and blind-worm's sting, Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing...


You been messing in Snape's store cupboard again Jacob? :wink: 

Cheers, Vann.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Apr 2016)

The blacksmiths I know use beeswax - in blocks. I would have thought microcrystalline far too soft to come in a block - at least, Chestnut is.


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## Bm101 (30 Apr 2016)

phil.p":1y1qdndd said:


> The blacksmiths I know use beeswax - in blocks. I would have thought microcrystalline far too soft to come in a block - at least, Chestnut is.



Hmmm
Maybe I've been sold a ringer. :shock: 
This stuff is hard, it snaps and is quite brittle. Too hard to scratch with a fingernail. 






It's probably melted down icreamboxes.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Apr 2016)

Maybe not. Maybe that's its sort of natural state (I have absolutely no idea how microcrystalline wax is made, or what it's made from) before it's softened with a solvent of some description. Beeswax in its natural state is quite soft. Texture wise that's more like carnauba, but carnauba's brownish. I think I'd try melting some with some pure turps and see how it turned out.


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## D_W (30 Apr 2016)

Looks a lot like paraffin or canning wax.


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## ED65 (3 May 2016)

Bm101":2hq0490y said:


> 100g wax to 500ml white spirit to 100ml raw linseed oil. Heat to 100c then hand held blender on it. ... Can anyone advise on the mix ratios though. Sound sensible?


That sounds fine but TBH it doesn't matter much. The ones I've made were equal amounts (equal volumes) of wax, white spirit and oil but there's so little on the wood once you've wiped down and buffed that quite big differences in proportions have little to no obvious effect on the finish.

The amount of spirits/turps is a big factor for the product in the container however. It is the amount of spirits, and oil, that control how soft the polish is in bulk form. But if you fix the proportions of wax to oil at the start then the amount of spirits is the only factor in how soft the finished blend is, you can add as much or as little as you prefer. 



Bm101":2hq0490y said:


> I like my necessaries staying where I was born with them so I won't be using the Mrs's blender on the mix.


Not needed anyway! You only need to stir it. You only need to blend if you're making an emulsion, and if you've got a strong arm you can do it with a whisk, same way they did it in Victorian times.

As far as heating it goes, use a double boiler or bain marie. Sounds fancy but that just means a big jar in a large saucepan of water  

Since you've got turps you can use that to make the product smell nicer. You might read in older guides, or from older guys, that using turps makes a better product but it makes zero difference at the end of the day.


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## ED65 (3 May 2016)

Bm101":1lx8dzp1 said:


> Maybe I've been sold a ringer. :shock:
> This stuff is hard, it snaps and is quite brittle. Too hard to scratch with a fingernail.


That sounds like the stuff all right. Hardness is pretty much _the _way to tell it from lookalike waxes: paraffin, soya or bleached beeswax.

This is the reason it's used now so commonly in commercial wax finishes to add hardness, it being nearly as hard but much cheaper than carnauba or candelilla. 



phil.p":1lx8dzp1 said:


> Maybe that's its sort of natural state ... before it's softened with a solvent of some description.


Yes that'll be it. The Chestnut product, like almost all commercial paste waxes, is made into an easy-to-apply consistency with the addition of spirits.


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## swagman (3 May 2016)

If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine. 





http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish


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## Phil Pascoe (3 May 2016)

Stewie - don't forget the smell. It's worth doing for the smell alone.  I'm going to have a crack at that m/c wax.


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## Bm101 (3 May 2016)

Thank you both for the replies. I'd hit on the idea of the bain marie while giving it a little ponder the other day. I wondered about putting a bit through the cheesegrater first lol. Save on the mixing. Lazy Begger. 
Thanks again,
Chris


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## ED65 (3 May 2016)

Bm101":5nk6rp31 said:


> TI wondered about putting a bit through the cheesegrater first lol. Save on the mixing. Lazy Begger.


Good call Chris, takes flippin' ages to dissolve otherwise! And the less time spent around warmed solvent the better. 

If the wax is too hard to grate easily you can chip off pieces from the edge with a mallet and chisel, I've heard that's quite commonly done by those who get carnauba in a big chunk instead of pearls.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 May 2016)

Why bother with a mallet and chisel - just smash it with a hammer.


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## ED65 (3 May 2016)

swagman":3qmx4570 said:


> If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine.
> 
> ...[/url]
> 
> http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish


I have to say it, anything that quotes the old saw of a polish "feeding" the wood should be read with a healthy dose of scepticism. And that quote from Kramer, _"Mineral spirit is a petroleum derivative and is of no benefit to, nor is it compatible with wood."_ really gets on my tit every time I read it. All the various versions of white spirit don't seem to have done major harm to wood as part of the zillions of cans of varnish, Danish oil, teak oil, salad-bowl finish and enamel paints used in the last century!

Also, the evaporation rate of turps (oil of turpentine, gum spirits of turpentine, distilled turpentine, pure turpentine, all the same thing) can actually be higher than that of white spirits, not lower.

As far as the practical side of things goes, I doubt the (fairly minor) difference in evaporation rate makes any difference to penetration at all. But if that was felt to be a key factor then actually the best thing to use would be low-odour or 'odourless' spirits since it has by far the slowest evaporation rate in this class of solvents.


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## Bm101 (3 May 2016)

Me and the lad had a little go earlier. A trial run. He was making a potion apparently. Obviously mine was _Scientific Research_. Cut a few bits into one of the Mrs's metal bowls from the back of the cupboard. Chucked it in a saucepan of water ( 'It FLOATS Daddy!' , "Yes Son, that's Science" I said as pushed my glasses further down my nose to and peered over them for a more Scientific effect), and put on the gas. My Research and calculations were 'field standard' in this case and despite the desperate cuts in funding of recent years and my lack of proper laboratory facilities we persevered in such meagre conditions to broaden the sphere of Human Knowledge. So we added 'a bit'.

My assistant proceeded to make more astute observations while I gently reminded him not to try and blow out the flame on the gas hob. I gently chastised him for forgetting to add the Turps before we started heating the wax. He reminded me that as Head Scientist that was really my prerogative. We restarted testing after I got him to smell the turps the cheeky bugg*r. While he went to throw up for a bit and after some more field std. calculations, we chucked in 'about a capful'. 

First test results seem positive if a bit haphazard. By this point I was working alone, my assistant had wandered off for spaghetti and meatballs. The Unions will close this country down. 
End result, need to work on the mix but it remained fairly soft but was drying quick. Some kind pritt stick stuff might help added my assistant who was back from dinner and Andys Dinosaur Adventures. Rubbed some on a bit of off cut. Went on a little lumpy, buffed up pretty good. Amazingly well tbh considering the slapdash nature of my assistants general approach. Bit sticky but thats in the mix too. 
'Look!' I said. 'Shiny!'
'Yeh...' said my assistant. 'It is a _bit_ shiny.'
I nodded.
'Have you tried eating some? I bet it tastes like Strawberry Ice-cream.'

One tragic side effect was my Mrs's metal bowl. (Tucked neatly away at the bottom of the other bowls at the back of the cupboard), I'll stare in genuine wonder and bewilderment the next time she pulls it out. 'God love. No idea. That's very odd isn't it love? What could have caused that? Looks like some silly person's been trying Alchemy in that.'

Never show any fear.

Cheers!
Chris


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## swagman (4 May 2016)

ED65":m5tcjx37 said:


> swagman":m5tcjx37 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to make your own traditional furniture polish using beeswax; don't mix it with ordinary white spirits; use pure gum turpentine; it doesn't evaporate as quickly; allowing greater time for the mix to remain soluble, resulting in a deeper penetration within the wood surface. Refer to msds recommendations when using pure gum turpentine.
> ...





> Gum Turpentine is distilled pine sap.





> White Spirit, also known as Mineral Spirit, or Mineral Turpentine. It is a petroleum-based cheap replacement for Turpentine.





> "Mineral turpentine is chemically very different from Turpentine... and it has inferior solvent properties". It is essentially a lighter grade of paraffin (kerosene). One of the key differences in terms of its use, is that White Spirit evaporates much more rapidly than Turpentine.





> “Probably the most obvious practical difference is the evaporation time. White spirit evaporates considerably more quickly than Turpentine, and this can cause wood to dry out. As Malcom Pipes, a bespoke furniture maker we supply, says, “Pure Turps polish soaks the wood and feeds it, its a natural finish.””



http://cambridgetraditionalproducts.co. ... ure-polish



> Too often these days when I mention Turpentine, someone of the younger generation will answer, "Yes, I use that, I use Mineral Spirits". These are two are totally different materials – Mineral Spirits is a petroleum derivative and is of no benefit to, nor is it compatible with wood.





> Turpentine comes from trees – it is natural to wood – its benefits are many and long lasting. You will see the wood get better and better over time.



John Kramer. http://www.wkfinetools.com/trestore/fin ... improv.asp



I should point out that I am not just reliant on an internet search; the large block of bees wax I posted a photo of was uniform in thickness when I purchased it around 7yrs ago. That I do have some practical experience in making my own paste wax (bees wax + gum turpentine) as well as filler wax (bees wax + Pure Brazilian Carnauba Wax + gum turpentine + oxide powder tint) .


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## ED65 (5 May 2016)

swagman":p3u692ga said:


> That I do have some practical experience in making my own paste wax (bees wax + gum turpentine)


Me too. I've used different waxes and I didn't use turpentine (not that I'm against it, love the smell) and _the wood doesn't care. _Wood neither notices nor cares that my wax polishes weren't made using turps, any more than they care it's not in Renaissance Wax or Mansion Wax or Briwax 8) 

I don't know what the purpose of all the regurgitated quotes was but if they were as refutation the whole reason I posted was to point out that the page should be read with a wary eye. To put it plainly I'm saying it's wrong on many key facts. For anyone interested, number one is about how different white spirit and turps actually are in a product like this. This is something that anyone can confirm for themselves with about an hour of free time, a few spoonfuls of each solvent, some wax and a couple of small jars so no major commitment.

A lot of old-timers such as Kramer have what amount to romantic ideas about the differing natures of turpentine and white spirit (natural good  synthetic _bad_ :evil: ) but that's far too simplistic a notion and there's an overwhelming amount of real-world experience showing that white spirit _is _'compatible' with wood despite what he believes.


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