# Stripping oak sideboard - or not



## Tom61 (31 Oct 2015)

Hello to all.
Absolute beginner here.
Just got this from a second hand shop.
Guy said it came from a Poirot set and was about 90 years old.
Wife's watched every episode of Poirot at least 10 times so it was a no brainer for her.
She wants me to strip it back to new?
Can it be done?
I'm not bad at carpentry, and I can strip it down into its component parts to make things easier.
Guy said he wouldn't do that, he said to clean/feed it with equal parts of meths/turps/Danish oil mixed.
Said the patina would be lost otherwise.
Trouble is, the wife's only heard of fish and tatey patties, and wants it to look like new.
Any advice would be most gratefully accepted.
Thank you.


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## blackrodd (31 Oct 2015)

Hello and welcome, I would guess at 1930's or 1940's manufacture. See what others say, 
This look like the original finish, what sort of re finish are you looking for? 
I think it's thin veneer and the amount of work involved to scrape and get through the finish varnish and stain to bare wood will be long and arduous.
A pic of you're desired finish would probably be very helpful
Regards Rodders


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## blackrodd (31 Oct 2015)

Hello and welcome, I would guess at 1930's or 1940's manufacture. See what others say, 
This look like the original finish, what sort of re finish are you looking for? 
I think it's thin veneer and the amount of work involved to scrape and get through the finish varnish and stain to bare wood will be long and arduous.
A pic of you're desired finish would probably be very helpful
Regards Rodders


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## Droogs (1 Nov 2015)

hHave you explained to your missus, that if you do strip this back to bare and apply a modern stain/dye that it will have a very very reddish tinge to it that a lot of people nowadays don't like. i would suggest that you make up some reviver (recipes and links can be found in various threads here) on the back of the splashback as it will have the same finish as the rest of the piece but wont be seen if you gauva it up. by using the reviver you will take a lot of the crud off and be able to see the true colour of the piece. If you like it go ahead and strip the rest and then once cleaned off just shellac it up with lots and lots and lots of thin coats to bring it back to its original glory. for a piece thhis size averaging a couple of hours per night should take you about 3 weeks to finish the restoration. check out some French polishing techniques on youtube and then by the supplies needed. Best to go for "Blonde" shellac using a 2lb cut. HTH
droogs


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## Tom61 (1 Nov 2015)

Thanks for the reply, Rodders.
The guy said there's no varnish in the finish?
I was told to use a Scotchbrite pad and meths, which would just soak everything out leaving the original wood?
From what you're saying it's not as simple as that.
Originally, the wife wanted it painting black, to match our other furniture.
I thought it would be a shame, as the wood would come up lovely and new after a bit of effort.
She's now decided to go for that and dump all our black furniture, and wants to replace it with the modern, light oak stuff available.
I'm guessing that's not feasible now, is it?
If not, what would you suggest for bringing it back to life?
I could maybe persuade her to go for darker oaks with the new furniture then, once she sees how nice it looks.
Many thanks.
Regards Tom


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## Tom61 (1 Nov 2015)

Hi Droogs.
Seems you posted as I was writing.
I think you've answered the questions I posed.
I'll start researching now I've been pointed in the right directions.
Sweatbands at the ready!
Once it's done I'll post a photo.
Many thanks to both of you.
Kind regards,
Tom


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## AndyT (1 Nov 2015)

Fashions in furniture are as strange as any other fashions.

As said already, removing the current finish to get to bare wood will be a long difficult job with the risks of going through the veneer and of getting very uneven colours. 

If you and your wife want something light coloured then your best bet might be to clean off any grease and dirt with a little white spirit on a rag and then paint it. You'd still have the curved shape and the shadow effect of the applied blocks.


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## MusicMan (1 Nov 2015)

Yes 1930s Art Deco. Quite nice, sacrilege to repaint or strip it! I have a 1930s set from my parents. Agreed you do have to be very careful with the thin veneer, and you probably have no chance of getting it back to a light oak finish without hitting the plywood underneath. As Andy says, clean - if you must - with white spirit or a commercial wax remover, but then best to use clear wax rubbed on with wire wool, buff when dry.I would just wax it to keep the patina.

Tell your wife that painted any colour would be horribly anachronistic for Poirot, and would ruin the value.


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## Tom61 (2 Nov 2015)

Where to start!
Thanks for all the replies.

Droogs - Looked for a reviver recipe and found loads ... and loads of arguments about how to make it.
One thread suggested The English Polisher on YouTube.
Watched a few of his videos and he made it look easy. Sorry, I KNOW there's more to it, and some of you have spent a lifetime learning techniques, which I fully respect.
I'm 61 and just starting. Bit old to spend years learning the fine arts of a new trade.
He made a writing desk look amazing to my untrained eye in a matter of hours.
I'd be more than satisfied if mine looks half as good.

AndyT - Just spent a few happy hours dismantling it!
The only veneer is on the front of the doors, everything else is solid.
Having said that, I won't be sanding it back to bare wood.
Having Googled I prefer the look suggested on here.
The wife finally agrees.

MusicMan - As I've said, the wife now agrees!
I have a problem with the wire wool bit.
Which is a BIG problem given everyone says to use it.
I can't touch the stuff.
Just typing the words brings me out in goose bumps.
Bit unfortunate for someone who wants to restore furniture.
I'm going to use Scotchbrite and the sponges you get for washing up with the harder side for scrubbing pans.
I know I'm a wimp.
My dad used to make furniture. When I was small he used to get me to help him. When it came to the wire wool bit I failed.
Been the same ever since.

Thanks again to all for the replies. 
Your time is much appreciated.

Kind regards,
Tom

PS. Wife not happy about the pile of oak in pieces on the lounge floor. 
Women.


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## AndyT (2 Nov 2015)

It's often said that it's best to avoid wire wool on oak as the iron can react with tannins and make black marks. (I'm sceptical about whether it really matters after 80+ years but there's no need to take risks.)

So your Scotchbrite pads are just right.


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## Tom61 (3 Nov 2015)

That's a relief, thanks.

I have another question.
The unit smells really musty.
I don't know if it's age or where its been stored.
Will the smell go once I've cleaned it all, or is there something else I'd need to do.
Thanks.
Tom.


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## Adam9453 (3 Nov 2015)

There are various things you can put in it to mask the smell but I would expect once you have finished restoring it, the musty smell will be replaced by the smell of whatever finish you end up applying.


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## Tom61 (3 Nov 2015)

Thanks for that Adam, I was hoping that would be the answer.

I think this will be the novice's final question -

I took the unit to pieces, as I said, to make it easier to clean. (Did I mention I'm a novice.)
As the top is solid, and the upright/splashback, as well, we decided I'd take that back to as new as possible.
I'm quite pleased with the result. Photo attached.
It's not quite finished yet.
As you can see, there are dark stains. I think they may be wax but I'm not sure.
It had quite a bit of candle wax on top, which I cleaned off.
Is there any way to get these out?
If not, so be it.
And... would the recommendation be to finish it with stain or the Blonde shellac, as suggested by Droogs, or just to wax it.
Or, are shellac and wax the same thing.
I'd love the grain to really stand out.
Thanks again.
Tom


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## Droogs (4 Nov 2015)

Shellac is a resin excreted by the Lac beetle larvae as they pupate. It is used as a sealer to close off the pores of the wood and then if wanted subsequent layers can be built up to a very high gloss shine (french polishing). It can be put on as just a couple of layers and then basically any finishing agent you want can then be put on top. It is a little more durable and heat resistant than wax alone. I suggested using blonde shellac as it would be the type to least likely cause a colour change in the piece, meaning it would blend in/compliment the more modern oak furniture you said you would be thining of using it with. Personally if you are thinking of a change in colour/shade etc then for me i would consider using a dye rather than a stain as this would enable you to get a closer colour match on any subsequent furniture pieces you may get as well.
As for the dark stains, if it's on a solid wood part rather than a veneered part, with your current skill level ( not cheek intended) to save risking damage may i suggest you use a card scraper to gently remove it, remembering not to concentrate just on the stains but to cover a wide border around it to avoid creating divits.
HTH

edit:
If you want a really great shine withoug the hours of practice at FP, then try using Halfords 2 pack laquer (guess where the name comes from) This is the clear coat that is put on top of car paint to make it shiny. Spray it on in thin coats, 5/6 thin is better than 1/2 thick. The added advantage is that it is very tough and heat resitant and waterproof


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## Droogs (4 Nov 2015)

ooh, quick ques Tom. Do you have central heating? if you do then I would advise you to give the inside faces at least one coat as well to help stabilize the unit and avoid any warpage/splitting probs as it acclimatises to your gaff


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## Tom61 (4 Nov 2015)

Thanks Droogs, very informative and helpful.
Just watched a video of how to use a card scraper.
I'll get one today, if for no other reason than the finish is like glass!
Very impressed.
I like the idea of the dye. Said to the wife last night, I think I'm getting the bug for doing old furniture.
Can't wait to find other pieces to do.
Who knows, in 40 years I may know enough to stop pestering you guys!

The black marks I Googled, and found they lift out easily with Oxalic acid.
Trouble is, I can only find it online.
I want it now!
Does anyone know where it can be bought on the High Street, or some cleaning product that contains it?

BTW Droogs, I was giving the unit a coat everywhere, but not for the reasons you mentioned.
It's to try and get rid of the smell.
But, nice to know it'll help avoid the problems you mentioned.
2 birds, and all that.

Many thanks,
Tom


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## Droogs (4 Nov 2015)

you can get it at b&q if need be just look for decking cleaner


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## MusicMan (6 Nov 2015)

A dye will help change the colour effectively. But a stain will bring out the wood grain much better, especially in oak. I think this is because it is preferentially absorbed by the softer bits of the grain. Try on the underside of the top or the back of the riser before committing?

Keith


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## Tom61 (6 Nov 2015)

Ordered Oxalic acid from Ebay.
My scrapers don't come until next week anyway so may as well wait.

MusicMan - You know how to make my brain hurt!
Droogs said to use a blonde shellac, then wax it.
Is shellac the same as a stain or dye?
I don't know the difference between a stain and a dye, but like the sound of stain bringing out the grain.
But is that what putting blonde shellac on would achieve?
Are you suggesting staining and then waxing?
Thank you.
Regards, Tom


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## MusicMan (6 Nov 2015)

Hi Tom, sorry about that. First shellac is neither a stain nor a dye, but (as Droogs said) a resin excreted by the female lac bug, which when dissolved in alcohol (meths in UK usually) forms a sealant and is also called French polish. Blonde shellac has been bleached before dissolution whereas natural shellac is a light brown shade.

I'm not surprised at you confusing stains and dyes as there is widespread confusion in the internet literature, and I learned it differently when young to what seems to be the common internet (American) usage now. So I suspect Droogs and I mean exactly the same, and I will now change my usage to what Wikipedia currently says. So we both suggest a dye.

The difference is in the size of the colour particles. In a dye they are extremely fine and suspended in a solvent which penetrates the wood. Hence the colour is distributed through the depth and as Droogs says the colour can be controlled and matched well. The grain is brought out nicely. In a stain, the colour particles are larger and sit on the top of the surface, like a paint. Examples of the dye are Colron wood dyes (which is what I suggest you use), and examples of the stain are polyurethane varnishes called 'Jacobean Oak' etc.

After dyeing the wood you need a protective finish, which could be shellac (French polish) and/or wax polish. French polish is the classic fabulous finish but does take a while to learn to do properly. In your original sideboard it would probably have been sprayed on). It resists dents very well if properly applied but not alcohol nor heat. I am a great fan of Fiddes Hard Wax Oil for furniture, as it combines a proper-looking wax finish with incredible resistance to heat, coffee, alcohol etc. I find four coats about right, rubbed down with fine sandpaper between each coat, and making the coats progressively thinner.

Wax gives some protection and if you think you can stop your guests putting wine glasses on the sideboard, this is fine. It is very hard to mess it up, and a few coats of a clear brushing or rubbing wax, buffed in between each coat, will make it look good.

I learned French polishing as a lad from my father, who learned it from a wonderful old-time cabinet maker who shared digs with him in the war, when they worked at ordnance factories. Funnily enough, in sorting out my workshop yesterday I found the recipe that the cabinet maker wrote out for my father around 75 years ago (and he probably learned it twenty years before that). I'll write it out if anyone is interested. Neither my father nor I have been professional woodworkers but we were professionally trained in this one regard!

Keith


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## Droogs (8 Nov 2015)

I meant exactly as you just said MM and please put up the recipe, it's allways good to find new ones and try them


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## Tom61 (16 Nov 2015)

First of all, my apologies for not replying sooner.
I've been away since 2 days after my last post and away again tomorrow for a couple of days.

Thanks very much MM for one more of the many, helpful, detailed responses I've had. Greatly appreciated.
The dye it is then.

While I've been away, the wife's gone a bit mad with this oak lark.
Got back to find a lovely drop leaf bureau and nest of tables waiting.
I think she forgets I'm a novice.
But, I'm getting more confident armed with the advice given freely on here.

I used the oxalic acid. Got some the day before I went away.
It worked like magic.
Two small grey areas left to do again, but every other mark disappeared.
Really pleased.

Just got in from trying the scrapers.
One flat and one curved.
It made the top feel really smooth, but no shavings/dust came off like the bloke in the video managed?
Not too worried because it's smooth, just a little worried it's not 'ripping' more wood off?

Another question if you don't mind -
The curved edges on the top - how do I prepare them without going against the grain on the two ends?
The flat scraper would be a nightmare to use there - or is that just me.
The curved one would obviously be used across the grain.
Bearing in mind I can't stand the feel of wirewool - wimp - do I just use very fine sandpaper brushing in a curve with the grain?
Thanks.
Tom


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## Droogs (16 Nov 2015)

Hi Tom,
glad things are going well, have a look at how to sharpen a scraper using a burnisher. You don't need to go buy one just use a good hard metal rod, a round CRV screwdriver shaft will do if it's all you can find. When using the scraper once sharpened be aware that it will get hot and hurt. An excellent vid is this one with William Ng:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz6EpQu2HRo

His tips apply to the curved one as well with regard to the edges. Once you've done it and practiced a bit try it on the furniture piece. If you don't have the fancy stones use emery paper on a thick piece of glass as your surface with water or windolene (not the thick goop) as a lubricant. start with 1000g and work up to the highest you can get.
HTH

Edit for typos


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## Tom61 (19 Nov 2015)

Thanks Droogs.
Now I know why my scraper didn't work straight out of the box!
Watched that video and 2 others.
Fully armed now with knowledge.
Tomorrow I'll have a go at getting the burr, and practice on spare wood.
Who said this restoration stuff was easy.
Oh, it was the wife.
Thanks again.
Tom


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## Tom61 (25 Nov 2015)

After 2 days of trial, error and dust, I have curly shavings!
This must be how man felt when he discovered fire.
On the downside, the wife was so impressed she wanted me to strip the whole sideboard.
Tomorrow, I will have a bare oak sideboard.
After lots of sanding and scraping it's nearly back to new.
In lots of pieces.

As she wanted modern, I'm thinking of doing the 2 balls at the front legs Georgian medium oak, along with the surround around the doors and the upstand on the top.
Any thoughts on how you feel it would look?

I'm using Georgian as my local builder's merchant only has English light oak, Georgian medium oak and Jacobean dark oak, which is too dark. 
They only stock Colron. Is that a decent dye?
I'll be using a 'mouse' to put the dye on, if that's ok?

Then there's the wax.
They have a baffling array of waxes.
I have no idea.
Can anyone recommend a wax?
The English bloke's videos show him using one that he just paints on with a large artist style brush.
I'm thinking that would be ideal for all the insides, which I haven't stripped.

Is there somewhere I can go tomorrow and buy some wax and dye off the shelves, unless Colron is ok.

Many thanks once again.

Tom


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## Tom61 (26 Nov 2015)

Just read back through all the replies.
Musicman's last post answered my question about Colron and wax, thank you.
I'll Google Fiddes stockists.
So much help given on here I seem to miss the details.
Thanks to all again.
Tom


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## Tom61 (27 Nov 2015)

Musicman - Picking up the Fiddes today.
You say 4 coats is enough?
The Fiddes site says only use 2 coats?
One coat if it's a hard wood.
I realise you speak from experience, I just wanted to confirm you are saying 4 coats of Fiddes, and not some other finish I've got confused with.
Thanks.
Tom


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## Droogs (27 Nov 2015)

Hi Tom,
The number of coats you put on is up to you, depending on how the surface is after each one dries and how shinny and deep you want it. just remember to lightly cut back before putting on each new coat by rubbing with 0000 wire wool or a fine grit sandpaper. the more coats you put on the more of a french pokished look you will get. It's not uncommon for some french polished pieces to have over 20 coats of shellac etc on to give it that deep shine?
Glad you are enjoying the experience


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## Tom61 (28 Nov 2015)

Thanks Droogs.
I think I'll stick to 4 coats.
20 may be a bit ambitious.
Should I buff each coat to harden it off before sanding.
Tom


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Nov 2015)

You are best off not using wire wool on oak, as you'll likely end up with blue black spots all over it where the minute iron particles stuck in the open grain and the tannin reacts.


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## Droogs (28 Nov 2015)

oops, my bad forgot it was oak

:-"


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## Tom61 (29 Nov 2015)

No problem.
For one thing it was the first advice I got about wirewool and oak.
For another, as I said at the start, I can't look at wirewool let alone use it.

But, should I buff the Fiddes oil wax between coats to harden it off before sanding between coats.
Thanks.
Tom


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## Droogs (29 Nov 2015)

No need for that Tom. Just give each coat a light going over between coats and leave the energetic stuff 'till the last coat. Just make sure you give each coat a sufficient amount of time to settle down before going at it. Depending on how warm yur working environment is will determine how much time it will take, warmer = quicker


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## Tom61 (29 Nov 2015)

Thanks Droogs.

Just found my first? beginners mistake.
Bought Colron light oak and Georgian oak.
Tried it on an area out of the way.
For comparison, an hour or so ago I tried a little Fiddes in the same area.
That one coat has made everything stand out better than either of the dyes managed.
That's about £11.50 down the drain.
Live and learn.
Tom


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## Tom61 (7 Dec 2015)

Ok, after 4 weeks of dismantling, sanding, scraping, washing, wiping and oiling, yesterday I got to the best bit...
Putting it back together!
I'm very pleased so far, although it's just the frame and ends I've done.
One niggle I'd like advice about -
On the left and right of the frame containing the doors, there's 2 upright narrow filler panels.
Due to the sanding etc, it's taken away some of the thickness.
This will result in the frame leaving a slight gap between them when I screw it on.
It's not much, but I can see it now, and know it'll annoy me to death.
What can I use to fill these slight gaps?
Thanks.
Tom


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## AndyT (7 Dec 2015)

I think a photo would help - you are a lot more familiar with this piece than your readers are!


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## Tom61 (7 Dec 2015)

Hi Andy.
There's a photo of the area I'm talking about with my first post.
Thanks.
Tom


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## Tom61 (7 Dec 2015)

OOps!  

Just realised I had the frame upside down.
Put the first bit I'd marked left in the right-hand side.
All ok when I put them in their correct sides.
Told you I'm not bad at carpentry. :roll: 
Sorry.
Tom


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## Tom61 (8 Dec 2015)

All built up and looking great - to me and the wife at least.
Now comes the buffing/polishing bit.
And my next question...

Read about it and watched videos.
Use wet and dry up to 2000 etc.
But, some say if the piece has had more than 3 layers of finish, it should be left up to a month to harden off before buffing?
And, a wax should be used when buffing to bring out the grain etc?
Is this correct?

I gave it 4 coats of Fiddes hard wax oil, leaving about 24 hours between coats, and used scotchbrite pads between coats.
I know someone on here will have the answer after years of experience.
Thanks.
Tom


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## Tom61 (14 Dec 2015)

Well, there it stands in all its... glory?
I know lots of you will say I've ruined it by taking it back to bare wood.
But, considering the guy we bought it from was giving it a shabby chic finish if we hadn't have bought it, or that the wife wanted me to paint it all black, I reckon I've saved it and given it a new lease of life.
Who knows, it may have another 80 or 90 years in it now.
And, most importantly, the wife loves it!
I'm quite pleased myself, given that it's my first ever attempt.
Wouldn't have known where to start if not for the masses of advice given on here.
Some of you may feel I've just ignored your advice, but really I haven't.
I gave the wife all your recommendations and let her choose.
So, a big thank-you to all!

Blackrodd - Just looking at one of your early posts... you were right, it was long and arduous!

Errrr... any advice yet from anyone on my last post about buffing?
Bought a machine and raring to go!
(After I've filled that front left, top corner, and redecorated to do away with the red - I know :wink: )
Kind regards,
Tom


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## Phil Pascoe (14 Dec 2015)

Well done that man!! You've more patience than me. =D> =D>


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## AndyT (14 Dec 2015)

Well, you clearly did the right thing in ignoring my advice!
I'm glad you've now got a piece of furniture that you both like.


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## Droogs (15 Dec 2015)

Hi tom,
Well done, you've done a great job and I hope you enjoyed it. Personally i would just use a decent wax polish and buff up with a soft cloth or a bonnet (dont let it heat up) and say done


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## BearTricks (15 Dec 2015)

Wow. Safe to say I did not expect it to come out looking so good. 

Well done. Fantastic job. 



Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk


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## Tom61 (15 Dec 2015)

Didn't expect comments like that!
Thank you very much, kind sirs.
Praise indeed from seasoned finishers.
A good wax and buff it is then, Droogs.

I may have made a mistake doing this one, she's getting soooooo carried away now.
Just a bureau, nest of tables and another sideboard to do and I should be done for next Christmas.

Thanks to all again.
Kind regards and a merry Christmas.
Tom


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