# Brace & Ledged Door - or Panelled Door.



## Dibs-h (13 Nov 2009)

For my 'shop - it's a bit chicken and egg scenario with regards to the door & windows. So I'm boarding up the wiondows with ply for the moment as access isn't required - but the door is something else, can't really board it as I need to go in & out and start moving some stuff into it.

Now the "final" door - that will be done sometime later, but I still need a door. So whilst not quite in the bodge it & leg it league - it has to be cheap, functional and secure.

Here's the plan - 1300 x 2100 wide opeing,

Door frame from 2x1 (softwood)- or bought in if someone does it that size & cheap enough.

Door - had an idea about using Ply on both sides with a 2"x1" or 1"x1" core - but I think that's doo much hassle. So settled (unless someone has a better idea) on a braced and ledged door out of 8"x2" (or 6"x2") softwood. Any suggestions\advice on what not to do, or what to do for that matter.

It will be out of softwood - I'm not wanting to spend a fortune on it, only to rip it out next summer.


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## Mattty (13 Nov 2009)

4 pieces of cheap studding 1 top and bottom, 2 stiles. Screw though top and bottom into stiles. Fix in oaces with a few screws and plugs.

For the door i would personally just hinge a sheet of ply, and fit a hasp and staple for a padlock if required- all pretty standard building site stuff, and quite cheap.


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## Benchwayze (13 Nov 2009)

Dibs, 

Consider hanging the door so it opens inwards. 
From experience, 95% of shed and garage breakings I attended, were accessed through an outward opening door. So easy to jemmy, whatever locks you use. 

Inward opening doors with double mortice locks and dead bolts, means 'bodily-pressure' would have to be a sledge-hammer at least. 

Far too noisy for serious felons to risk! I know it takes room in the shop, but far better than a claim on insurance. 
:wink: 

And a properly made ledged and braced door is ideal, especially with a thin sheet of galvanized steel over the inside. HTH


Regards
John


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## Dibs-h (16 Nov 2009)

Cheers chaps for the advice. I don't want to err too much on the side of a building site look - that would almost invite attention. Also don't like hasps and padlocks - almost every break in a member of this forum has had seems to have involved hasps and padlocks.

Now the sort of garage doors (for the new attached garage) I had in mind are like the below,







So fancied a matching single door (opening inwards) for the shop - how hard would it be to make one? Mortice and tennon stuff? Wedged tennons?

Plan B - Braced and Ledged door would be easier (I think). But I'd rather have the final product if possible.

Also for the door (and windows) part of me is re-thinking the hardwood bit - I'd have to PSE it - whereas odds are softwood is probably already available commercially in the sorts of size I'd need and some proper paint in a nice Edwardian colour. It's not about cost ultimately - but getting in and using the place as opposed to being half in. Besides it's all ground floor stuff - so not as if maintenance would be dangling 30' up a ladder. :wink:


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## Mattty (16 Nov 2009)

I thought this was a temporary door!


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## Dibs-h (16 Nov 2009)

Sorry - scope creep what can I say?


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## Benchwayze (16 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":rt8jtn9a said:


> Sorry - scope creep what can I say?



I thought that was a condition that only affected me Dibs! 

Wanted to reorganise my shop by moving things around. Suddenly I am into making a brand new bench for my lathe... You know how it goes! :lol:

Regards

John


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## OPJ (16 Nov 2009)

Making a door like that shouldn't prove to be too challenging. The only thing that may leave you scratching your head is at the top of the door with the glazing bars. But, there are tricks to simplify that...! :wink:

Softwood would be fine as long as it is looked after and maintained regularly. It will require more regular care than most hardwoods.

Are you sure you want an _inward_ opening door? Not only would is consume some space indoors but, you know, it would probably be 'easier' to force open than a locked door which can only open outwards.


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## Benchwayze (16 Nov 2009)

Hi Olly,

Just begging to differ here.

I explained why in my earlier post. Believe me, I know of what I speak. Provided you make the door properly, fit good bolts/locks, and for a shed, maybe reinforce the jam with angle iron, an inward opening door is far more difficult to open than an outward opening door. All they need for that is a good jemmy.

It's only in the movies that a shoulder-charge will open a strong door! That's why the boys-in-blue adopted the 'Enforcer', and sometimes it takes them a couple or more blows. A break-in merchant wouldn't want to make the noise or take the time. Okay, if a well aimed kick will open a door, I agree with you. However, you'll find only weak locks and bolts give way to that. It's a mistake a lot of shedbuilders rued, as they filled in their claims forms.  

I suppose there will be a house somewhere with outward opening main doors, but to date I have never seen one.

Regards
John


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## OPJ (16 Nov 2009)

Good points, John! I never thought to compare with your average house! 

Still, in a workshop (although this partly depends on size), I'd rather have outward-opening doors to save space inside...


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## Benchwayze (16 Nov 2009)

Olly, 

You pays yer money... you takes yer choice. :lol: 

I have to suffer an 'up-and-over' garage door. SWIMBO's decision. Well at least the south-facing metal door acts as a solar'heat panel, and I don't know what high-humidity is! I know it means rust, which I don't have!  ccasion5:


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## Dibs-h (17 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":1xfpm8x1 said:


> Hi Olly,
> 
> Just begging to differ here.
> 
> ...



You so read my mind - I am erring down the road of re-inforcing the jamb with angle. And good locks. Just 'cos it's a shed doesn't mean one should skimp on the locks\doors - if anything it'll be more secure than the house - purely because it's unoccupied far more than the house.

Just trying to get my head around the construction aspects of the door. I'm struggling to get any kind of plans so might have to spend some time with some dividers and scale up\down from the picture to get the proportions (at least for a start).

Wood - suppose I might try and get the sizes worked out and try and price up the bits in various timbers. - Roughly the door needs to be 4' x 7'. Would I be better with a single door or with a normal size door and a "bit" that normally stays bolted down?

Construction wise - M&T would be the way to go? Also would the T's be wedged?

Also - the front door (house) is softwood painted green, the kitchen door is softwood painted red and the patio door (normal door) is a sapele one. It's quite an eclectic mix but I've always felt that whilst they maybe of slightly different designs - a standard look would be good. Is that going too far?

*edit:* The timber for external doors are there any recommendations interms of softwood and hardwoods? [Probably could do with changing the Post title as it isn't really about a "temp" door anymore.]


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## Mattty (17 Nov 2009)

Dibs,

That is a very big door. 
I was going to suggest an external fire door as another cheap alternative but i don't think you'd get one that big. They are very cheap though if you do go that route, and can be easily made to look half decent with applied mouldings etc.


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## Benchwayze (17 Nov 2009)

I was going to suggest looking for one of Charles H Hayward's books on Carpentry. I loaned my copy out, and never got it back. 
But if you go to 

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... =Carpentry

you will find copies of his books. I think you will find full details for making a framed, ledged and braced door. 
Most Forum members will confirm Hayward is 'the man' for explaining in print, and his drawings are second to none. 

HTH

John


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## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":3jd37r4h said:


> I was going to suggest looking for one of Charles H Hayward's books on Carpentry. I loaned my copy out, and never got it back.
> But if you go to
> 
> http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/Searc ... =Carpentry
> ...




Cheers John - there appear to be a quite a few of his books on there - any suggestions as to which one?


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2009)

Hi Dibs, 

The one I had was called 'Carpentry & Joinery for Beginners' if I recall. 
A lot of his books are 'for beginners', but I assure you, if you knew everything he covers, you'd be some smoky beginner! 

If you don't have any luck, I'll do some more poking about and see if I can find something to assist.

Regards
John


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## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

Mattty":z2wlddn9 said:


> Dibs,
> 
> That is a very big door.
> I was going to suggest an external fire door as another cheap alternative but i don't think you'd get one that big. They are very cheap though if you do go that route, and can be easily made to look half decent with applied mouldings etc.



At 1st I thought it was cool having a large door entrance - now I'm not so sure. :shock: 

After a bit of pondering yesterday - I'm erring down the road of an oak door. If I make the new garage opening 8' wide that would be 2 of these as well. Just a shame that the garage side door isn't going to be 4' wide. Mind you, I do want a new front and side door on the house - so that could be 3 x4' ones and 3x3' ones.

Bloody hell - that's me busy till God knows when. Either that or the 1st ones puffins up and the rest are staying put. :wink:


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2009)

Dibs, 

I located a drawing, and some text on framed, ledged and braced doors. 
I will scan it this evening, so PM me your email address and I'll send it on. 

It's from Ellis's 'Modern Practical Joinery'; a valuable reference for the way things used to be done. We might not have such good timber today, but there's no reason we can't make a 'proper job' from the best we can get.

I think there's a copy of that book at abebooks, but it might be expensive. Good investment though!  

regards
John


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## Dibs-h (18 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":3ns4mrzd said:


> Dibs,
> 
> I located a drawing, and some text on framed, ledged and braced doors.
> I will scan it this evening, so PM me your email address and I'll send it on.
> ...



Cheers John - will do. I've also just bought the following,

- Cabinet Making for Beginners
- Complete Book of Woodwork
- Carpentry (Teach Yourself)

by Hayward from a seller on AbeBooks - rang them up direct and bought them, a little bit less oddly enough. Should have them tomorrow.

Thanks

Dibs


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## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

Cheers John - got your email this morning. Also got Hayward's books today so will go thru them this evening. A quick flick thru doesn't show much info on large doors only cabinet doors, but at £14 delievered for all 3 - be useful nonetheless.

I found some info on chestofbooks about frame\panelled doors - which is what the one in the picture (that I posted) looks to me. So will be having a bit of a think of how that would be constructed.


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## Benchwayze (19 Nov 2009)

You're welcome Dibs... 

I'm sure the drawings and text will help, and together with the books you bought you shouldn't go far wrong. 

Best of luck and enjoy the reading!  

Regards
John


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## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

One question I do have is that I've seen frame\panelled doors in the past with wedged tennons visible in the stiles, but I've seen references (old ones admitedly) where it stated the 1st class work only has the tennons go 2/3's of the depth into the stiles. Is it down to personal preference? Or should one not have wedged tennons in an external door?

Also for an external door - If the door was 50mm thick (i.e. the rails & stiles were 50mm thick) how much thinner should the panels be? Assuming the design was like the one in the picture. Also I've seen mentions that the bottom rail should be twice the depth of the top rail?

Assuming the panel was thinner than the rail\stile (i.e. inset in a bit) - I've seen doors where there is no beading at this junction - is that a bad idea? From a point of water ingress.


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## Benchwayze (19 Nov 2009)

Hi Dibs, 

Through-tenons or blind. 

Blind tenons suffer less from water ingress, and with modern exterior grades of glue you shouldn't have a problem. 

The through mortice is less prone to racking, and again, waterproof glues are a good bet. Along with proper wedging they should hold out well, but you will need to treat the exposed eges routinely. (Paint or varnish etc.) 

I'd use blind tenons, going as deep as practically possible.

I like Cascamite for outside use, although I believe they now call it by another name. I still have plenty, so not having had to buy any, the new name escapes me! BTW, before the days of good waterproof woodwork glues they used paint as an adhesive for outside applications.

If you know the direction of the prevailing winds, it helps of course. Fit a drip-rail above and right across the doorway.

Regards
John


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## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":2chio38u said:


> Fit a drip-rail above and right across the doorway.
> 
> Regards
> John



Sorry I'm having a senior moment! Do you mean a "weather" bar at the base of the door? Above - non comprende senior!


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## Benchwayze (19 Nov 2009)

My Senior Moments are always Intellectual Intermissions.  

I'm referring to a piece of 4 x 1 above the door. The back edge angled slightly so the board slopes downwards. With a groove worked in the underside at the front, as per a window-ledge. It shoots the rain away from the door. The name of it seems to have escaped me. 

Dont often see them these days due to plastic doorframes and so on. 

Regards John


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## Dibs-h (19 Nov 2009)

Benchwayze":qy5kne8b said:


> My Senior Moments are always Intellectual Intermissions.
> 
> I'm referring to a piece of 4 x 1 above the door. The back edge angled slightly so the board slopes downwards. With a groove worked in the underside at the front, as per a window-ledge. It shoots the rain away from the door. The name of it seems to have escaped me.
> 
> ...



I know what you mean - you tend to see them on old houses that have possibly an original door (early 20c). IIRC they are part of the door casing\frame and not part of the door?


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## Mattty (19 Nov 2009)

Have you decided what your doing yet or are you gonna keep changing your mind :lol: 
I would personally use wedged through tenons on external doors. Probably because that is how i was taught. I don't think i've ever seen a door rot from an exposed tenon end, it's always been in the internal corner of the joint that i've seen any failure.
Your welcome to pop over and use my morticer if it helps dibs. I would certainly advise it if i was making 3 oak doors.


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## Benchwayze (19 Nov 2009)

Dibs, 

Whilst I have to make do with a single garage as a shop, I do have room for a decent sized building in the garden. ( If SWIMBO would agree of course!) I have the space, so I would build a small 'storm-porch' around the door. Like you see occasionally when folk tart up the front of their houses. I'd clad it with shingles, like the roof. I'd be happy then. 
 

Mind you, the advantage of using the integral garage is that I can pull the car right up to the up-and-over door. So that's a built-in alarm system!
8) 

John


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## Dibs-h (20 Nov 2009)

Mattty":3fc2x7ts said:


> Have you decided what your doing yet or are you gonna keep changing your mind :lol:
> I would personally use wedged through tenons on external doors. Probably because that is how i was taught. I don't think i've ever seen a door rot from an exposed tenon end, it's always been in the internal corner of the joint that i've seen any failure.
> Your welcome to pop over and use my morticer if it helps dibs. I would certainly advise it if i was making 3 oak doors.



We are going with something very similar to the door I posted in the piccy. The only slight "tweak" is that as it's my 1st door - I'm not going to risk several 100 £ of oak - it's going to be softwood. 

To be honest - so are the casement windows. Now that's where a domino comes in handy. :wink: 

It's only an outhouse - so a lick of good paint in an Edwardian colour and sorted. The front\side house doors and the ones on the front of the garage - they'll be the same design (derivative) and as thye'll be visible, will be in hardwood (oak).

Leaving for work this am - I was looking at my morticer - it's a Record RPM 75 (never used it but bought it ages ago as it was cheap) - will have to look to see what the depth of cut on that is. I suspect the styles will be no more than 6" wide. Just woken up and realised if the depth isn't enough I can always turn the timber over and come in from the other side.  

Mattty - many thanks for the offer, all else fails I'll be nipping over with a car full of timber.

p.s. I did seriously think of making the door with dominoes! Also as the door will need proper trimming, etc - that justifies the TS55 I bought and the rails I'm about to buy. :wink:


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## Benchwayze (20 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":10g9euzv said:


> Just woken up and realised if the depth isn't enough I can always turn the timber over and come in from the other side.



Like you could cut 1/2" wide mortices by making double cuts with a 1/4" hollow chisel! That was one of my 'Ah-Hahh' moments 

So, I know the feeling Dibs. 

EDIT:

Matty, 
You are right about through M&T's. Come to think, they are usually the way to go. 

I made my rear garden gate as a framed, panelled door, from Cedar. I used 'slip-tenons' for the frame itself, and cut blind mortices, with the router and a 1/2" upcut bit. Apart from the fact it needs some more linseed this year, it's as good as ever! But of course, it's cedar-wood! 

(Need to do that little job with the linseed, so I must get the door on the trestles.)
 

Best of luck... 
John


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## Dibs-h (20 Nov 2009)

Right - been pondering on this door. The opening in the blockwork is 1300 wide and around 2100 tall - so it'a large door.

Now assuming it's very similar to the one in the picture below

Like - but only 1 of them!







The sorts of dimensions I'm thinking of is 6" wide stiles, 6" top rail (could be 5"), with a 12" bottom rail (could be 10"). 3 fielded panels with 2 muntins (each approx 5" wide) - does that sound reasonable or make for a weedy looking door?

Now the panels - not glued in I take it? Also is 1/2" a reasonable depth for the slot in the rails\muntins\stiles for the panel? M&T - that's not really an issue, I think I've already done enough for a lifetime, what with the trusses. :shock: 

Now the mid rail looks a sort of in between the top rail and the base rail - so assuming 6" top and 10" bottom, then say 8" mid rail?

Now the panels have that "raised" look - I'm seen numerous router bits that give that look. Good idea or bad idea? Also assuming the "frame" was 44mm thick what is the recomendation for the thickness of the panels - assuming they were not "raised" or whatever the terminolgy is?

Door frame - I've seen hardwood sections 55x70 with a 15x"door thickness" rebate. Right sort of ballpark?

Many Thanks.

Dibs.


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## OPJ (20 Nov 2009)

Structurally, I don't think your stiles would need to be 6in. wide. I used to make framed garden gates where the stiles were only 4in. and we never had any trouble unless you went beyond 2.4m in length.

Well, saying that, our gates were of a different construction - stiles were rebated and rails machined to half-thickness so that the gate could be clad with T&G boarding. And, they were cut from 3in. thick pine. No need to go more than 2.in (45mm finish) on a workshop door, though.

Then, you could have an 8in. bottom rail, maybe 6in. in the middle with 5in. on top... Something like that.

No, don't glue the panels in! If they're solid wood, allow plenty of room for expansion either side - as it's pine which is prone to movement, you may want as much as 6mm. I don't think the thickness needs to be more than one-third your rail thickness, provided it's cut centrally. It would also line up nicely with your mortises. :wink:


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## Mattty (20 Nov 2009)

That's all in the right pall park, but i think the door section are bigger than i would use-
5" stiles and top rail
10" mid and bottom rail. 
1" or 1 1/2" thick panel's. 
The rebate for panels is normall 1/2 "
The muntins i would make 4" max

Make sure you twin tenon the mid and bottom rail.

The door frame rebate again half inch. If you do go much bigger you will have to get deeper locks 3" not 2 1/2" otherwise the door handle is likely to strike the rebate.

Cheers,
Matt


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## Dibs-h (21 Nov 2009)

Mattty":2kvdcev6 said:


> That's all in the right pall park, but i think the door section are bigger than i would use-
> 5" stiles and top rail
> 10" mid and bottom rail.
> 1" or 1 1/2" thick panel's.
> ...



Cheers Chaps - the info is much apprciated.

Matt - I "supersized" the widths slightly as the door is 4' wide - so kinda wanted it to be in proportion, if that makes any sense. I didn't want it to look like a door that had just been made wider - but look right.

Mid and Bottom rails - yes double tennon, with the mid rail having tennons at top and bottom & gap in the middle. The bottom rail having the haunch towards the bottom of the door if that makes sense.

The diagram below probably shows it better,


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## Mattty (21 Nov 2009)

Joints wise you got it sorted. Sorry mate, i'm teaching you to suck eggs.

I realise it's a bigger door and i know what you mean about the proportions. I still think the sizes i quoted would be fine. It's gonna be one heavy door whatever sections you decide, that is a certainty.


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## Dibs-h (21 Nov 2009)

Mattty":2jyipc5m said:


> Joints wise you got it sorted. Sorry mate, i'm teaching you to suck eggs.
> 
> I realise it's a bigger door and i know what you mean about the proportions. I still think the sizes i quoted would be fine. It's gonna be one heavy door whatever sections you decide, that is a certainty.



Don't be sorry - better safe than sorry. If anything it's validation that I'm not p*ssing in the wind. :wink:

Actually had a stonking idea - some of the walls upstairs are to be painted (sometime). Gonna spend 5mins and draw them out full size and see which one I fancy. :lol: 

You're right - it's going to be heavy whatever I do. Having seen JonnyD's thread about double doors - realised that those french doors he made were the same width. But somehow french doors wouldn't like right on the 'shop.

Any recommendations on hinges - initial thoughts would be for ones with ball\needle bearings, not to mention super strong and preferably s\s.

If you look at the picture a few posts up - any idea if that sort of hardware is available in the UK.


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## Mattty (21 Nov 2009)

I was thinking about your door, but as i'd already made so many suggestion i didn't want to suggest french doors. 

If it was mine i think i would do either a pair of the same width or possibly a big and a little. I wouldn't be making them either, i'd be using external fire door blanks (£20ish from Howdens) and tart it up if i wanted something prettier- Ie apply thin boards to make it look pannelled etc.
So much quicker, it will give you a very good solid door for security purposes and be cheaper than buying the timber.

Hinges- Yes SS ball bearing jobs, hinge bolts, 2no 5 lever locks and 240v wired to the door handle :lol:


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## Dibs-h (21 Nov 2009)

Mattty":3ojlkple said:


> I was thinking about your door, but as i'd already made so many suggestion i didn't want to suggest french doors.
> 
> If it was mine i think i would do either a pair of the same width or possibly a big and a little. I wouldn't be making them either, i'd be using external fire door blanks (£20ish from Howdens) and tart it up if i wanted something prettier- Ie apply thin boards to make it look pannelled etc.
> So much quicker, it will give you a very good solid door for security purposes and be cheaper than buying the timber.
> ...



Suggestions are all good - be a bummer to make a door and then hear your suggestions and go "I wish I'd made that instead!"

Hmm... plenty to have a think about this evening over a sheesha and the latest edition of FWW that dropped thru the door this am.


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## Mattty (21 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":vrnsao71 said:


> Mattty":vrnsao71 said:
> 
> 
> > I was thinking about your door, but as i'd already made so many suggestion i didn't want to suggest french doors.
> ...


http://www.grailtrail.ndo.co.uk/Grails/sheesha.html ?


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## Dibs-h (22 Nov 2009)

Mattty":3eb7qwrs said:


> http://www.grailtrail.ndo.co.uk/Grails/sheesha.html ?


 :-$


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## Dibs-h (6 Jan 2010)

Benchwayze":1h2ixz88 said:


> I explained why in my earlier post. Believe me, I know of what I speak. Provided you make the door properly, fit good bolts/locks, and for a shed, maybe reinforce the jam with angle iron....
> 
> Regards
> John




Now that my windows are progressing nicely and should be complete within a week or so - (sledging is cancelled this eve - ok maybe for go for an hr or so) it won't be too long before the door starts.

Lock wise - was thinking of 2 x 5 lever sashlocks at 1/3rd's with a noddy handle\knob and non-lock watchyamacallit thingy. Now having seen a few doors kicked in (after the fact & thankfully someone elses), what strikes me is that the jamb always comes apart, i.e. the keep (I think that's what it's called) getting ripped out along with a section of the jamb.

So interested in re-inforcing it. Was thinking angle iron but wouldn't it need to be bolted to the wall and then the jamb screwed thru (i.e. the appropriate holes drilled in the angle to let the jamb fixings go thru)? A rebate would also be required on the jamb to sit over the angle?

Seeing as how the jamb always splinters - part of me was thinking that instead of having the rebate in the jamb (for the door) being 1/2" deep, making it an extra 5-6mm, then expoxy'ing\screwing in a strip of 5-6mm thick steel, the full width & height of the rebate\jamb. And having the rectangle cut into the strip to engage the lock strikers. That way, the load (in the event of an attempt on the door) required to shear the entire jamb would be a great deal more. Good idea or bad?

Also hinge pins on the other side.


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## Petiegolfer (20 Jan 2010)

Check out this guys door build

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-pr ... ide-lites/

and some of his other stuff...

http://www.talkfestool.com/vb/members/eijifuller.html

the man has skills!

Piers


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## Benchwayze (20 Jan 2010)

Hmmm, 
I ahve to be a Festool Owner to access the second link. 

Oh well, when the Domino gets to be a better tool for less money! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

John


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## Dibs-h (8 Feb 2010)

Started at last!

I've had the timber since before crimbo - sat up in the trusses. I am so chuffed I have trusses, so damn useful for storing stuff. Anyway I bought a whole load of 6"x2", 8"x2" for the main sections and chopped them up yesterday to approx lengths.







Now I've gone with 5" for everything, except an 8" bottom and 6" mid (although I have enough 8" to change this). The muntins have currently been cut to 5" wide (but can change this too).

Thankfully the timbers are relatively straight and required very little in the way of planing\thicknessing. The thickness has ended up at approx 45 - which I think is ok. Hardwood would have been nice - but for a 1st door - I'm happy to do it in softwood. I'm going to make it about 10mm bigger in H & W to allow for final trimming, etc.

Then proceeded to do a mockup - 






Damn that's a big door! Even coming and going thru the opening - the penny never dropped. Seeing the mock - certainly did. I cut the muntins over length (glad I did that) so playing about with the height of mid rail and therefore the size of the glazed area.

I placed 6 sheets of A4 paper to simulate the glazed panels (either 6 separate units or 1 and fake bars).

Wedged Tennons - I have some questions. I release the mortice will be (can't find the word ) - the height (outside) will be slightly greater than the height on the inside, to cater for the tennons. By how much?

Also can anyone point me in the direction of any details for the tennon\wedges - i.e. are the tennons cut as per normal and wedged in on the outer edges, or are they cut and wedges driven in to "separate" the parts?


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## Jake (8 Feb 2010)

Dibs-h":29w9y1vq said:


> Seeing as how the jamb always splinters - part of me was thinking that instead of having the rebate in the jamb (for the door) being 1/2" deep, making it an extra 5-6mm, then expoxy'ing\screwing in a strip of 5-6mm thick steel, the full width & height of the rebate\jamb. And having the rectangle cut into the strip to engage the lock strikers. That way, the load (in the event of an attempt on the door) required to shear the entire jamb would be a great deal more.



Unless I've misunderstood you, that sounds much like a Birmingham or London bar?


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## Dibs-h (8 Feb 2010)

Jake":1mqxb5n6 said:


> Dibs-h":1mqxb5n6 said:
> 
> 
> > Seeing as how the jamb always splinters - part of me was thinking that instead of having the rebate in the jamb (for the door) being 1/2" deep, making it an extra 5-6mm, then expoxy'ing\screwing in a strip of 5-6mm thick steel, the full width & height of the rebate\jamb. And having the rectangle cut into the strip to engage the lock strikers. That way, the load (in the event of an attempt on the door) required to shear the entire jamb would be a great deal more.
> ...



After a quick Google - yes it's is very much like a Birmingham bar - only the full width of the rebate as opposed to 16mm or so.


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## Dibs-h (15 Feb 2010)

Update: Started on the door. After tinkering with the height of the mid rail until I felt it looked\felt about right - marked the tennons and removed the waste from the cheeks in one go.






Then marked out the haunches, etc.






Now all the reading material I have come across suggest that the depth of the haunch is about 1/3 and 2/3 tenon. But nothing stated how long it should be. So went with about 1/3 - but this can be adjusted. 

*Any thoughts on how long the haunch should be? Was originally going to go with about 1" on a tenon\s that was about 5" long. At the mo - they're about 40mm long.*

Here's the bottom tenons






Then just clamped it up and man-handled it roughly into the opening to get a feel for how big this door is.






Then on with the mortices - just did the ones for the tenons - left the bits for the haunches - until the length of the haunches have been decided.

Sorry no wip ones just a crappy one at the end,






Thought I'd do the main frame first, then do the muntins last.

At home on Wed\Thurs (half term) so should get some more done.


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## Dibs-h (16 Feb 2010)

Update - after some reading yesterday, came across one mention of how long the haunch should be on a tenon - no more than 1/4 the length of the tenon. *Can anyone comment on this?*


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## Dibs-h (19 Feb 2010)

I went with the length of the haunch at 1/4 the length of the tenon in the end. 

Wed - trimmed the haunches down and then carried on with the mortices in the stiles. Having already done the main bit - did the bit for the haunches.

Here's the 1st top rail - 






The mid rail






Must have forgotten to take one of the bottom rail!

Thurs - started on the muntins. Decided to lay them out such that the 3 panels between are all the same size and to have the tenon in each end go no deeper that the start of the middle haunch of the mid rail and the bottom rail.

Having pondered for a bit - I decided to use double tenons in each end of the muntins.

Here's both muntins test fitted into the bottom rail






and here's the mid rail test fitted on as well,






I can tell you one thing for sure - wrestling them back out, and it is wrestling - isn't fun!

I've decided - as the door will be painted - to use some ply for the panels. I have some 18mm hardwood ply - so perhaps 2 pieces glued (or not) together and then glued into a 1/2" groove in the stiles\rails\muntins. As ply shouldn't expand\contract as solid timber would - I don't see why the ply can't be glued in.

Now the glazing bit requires a bit of pondering - I do like the look of the glazing bars as on the doors which are the inspiration for these,






But obviously mine has 3 (w) x 2 (h) lights as opposed to 2x2 as in the above above picture, more like (ignoring the rest of the door,






Which might make it easier that curving the middle bar and 2 verticals. It also shows the inside is flat. I get the impression the glass is externally beaded and the curved bits on the outside are quite possibly just applied after the glass is fitted as opposed to part of the frame.

On the 2x2 door the beading looks substantial - but on the 3x2 door it doesn't - so will be having a think on how to make it - yet for it not to be a weak point.

I suppose one could either fit just one big glass unit\pane and then apply the beading internally\externally to give the visual appearance - or go for 6 individual panes. Choices, choices. :-k Also whether to have the door panels raised (is in the picture above with 2x2 lights) or not? Suppose that can be a bit of a last minute thing and personal preference.


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## billybuntus (19 Feb 2010)

I would go for 6 individual panes if nothing else than for security. I could probably kick out one large section but may struggle a little gaining access through smaller panes.


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## Dibs-h (19 Feb 2010)

I'm inclined to go with 6 lights - for a production run I can see having 1 unit with applied beading being something to think about, but for me - not too bothered with saving time.

What do you think about the raised (or fielded or whatever they are called) panels as in the picture of the door with 4 lights? As opposed to just flat. 

Might just have to peruse the gallery on the site (US) that makes them and see what has been done & what looks good (to me anyways).

Thanks.


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## studders (19 Feb 2010)

I hope you're on a 'High Spinach, Popeye style' diet? You'll need to be to open and close that door, tis a whopper. :shock:


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## Dibs-h (19 Feb 2010)

studders":2tzqshii said:


> I hope you're on a 'High Spinach, Popeye style' diet? You'll need to be to open and close that door, tis a whopper. :shock:



It's not a cat flap hinged at the top or somefink. It'll have 4 hinges - should close with a gentle push assuming it's fitted well. :wink:

I have had the odd (well loads actually) thought - of man that's a flipping huge door and maybe I should have made the opening smaller. Must make mental note to make openings small - then make them larger afterwards, if I want to - bit hard now making it smaller!

Having said that - I suspect the one time when I don't have to take the door off (as would have been the case with a normal door) when getting something large in or out - it'll more than make up for it!


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## studders (19 Feb 2010)

Dibs-h":b0inme25 said:


> studders":b0inme25 said:
> 
> 
> > I hope you're on a 'High Spinach, Popeye style' diet? You'll need to be to open and close that door, tis a whopper. :shock:
> ...



Well natch but, have you factored in Wind? (not your own wind, I know you'd never do such a disgusting thing :lol: )


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## Dibs-h (19 Feb 2010)

studders":26ofjs0p said:


> Dibs-h":26ofjs0p said:
> 
> 
> > studders":26ofjs0p said:
> ...



Thankfully the spot is rather sheltered - I mean the building! 

I've been working in there for the past month or 2 and with no windows or door - there haven't really been any gusts of wind - excluding self generated that is. :lol:


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## AndyT (20 Feb 2010)

I reckon the easiest way to do those glazing bars would be to cut vertical and horizontal bars to length, and then cut halving joints where they cross. Then cut tenons on the end to fit inside mortices on the top opening. After that, mark and cut the curves. Then assemble, and rout round inside to make rebates for the glass, squaring off the corners by hand. Fix glass with nailed-in beading, mitred at the corners.


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## Dibs-h (20 Feb 2010)

AndyT":3dkptlzc said:


> I reckon the easiest way to do those glazing bars would be to cut vertical and horizontal bars to length, and then cut halving joints where they cross. Then cut tenons on the end to fit inside mortices on the top opening. After that, mark and cut the curves. Then assemble, and rout round inside to make rebates for the glass, squaring off the corners by hand. Fix glass with nailed-in beading, mitred at the corners.



I was pondering how to attach stuff together - in the end due to recent events (which have forced matters), the uprights have already been cut and roughly shaped. Going to use the Domino to join the horizontal pieces to the curved uprights and also to fix the lot to the top\mid rails and the stiles.


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## Henning (20 Feb 2010)

Let me start by saying i follow all your threads quite closely, as you seem to be doing a lot of things i've wanted to for ages, and hopefully will soon. 
I am truly impressed! 

So for the extreme newbie question: What does the haunch do? 
I've looked at it and looked at it again and still doesn't manage to figure it out. Sorry


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## Dibs-h (20 Feb 2010)

Henning":2a835jlu said:


> Let me start by saying i follow all your threads quite closely, as you seem to be doing a lot of things i've wanted to for ages, and hopefully will soon.
> I am truly impressed!
> 
> So for the extreme newbie question: What does the haunch do?
> I've looked at it and looked at it again and still doesn't manage to figure it out. Sorry



No probs - 

http://www.geoffswoodwork.co.uk/mortise01.htm

will probably explain it better than I will.


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## Henning (21 Feb 2010)

Thank you very much! That cleared it up nicely. 

That was a nice site which i have made a favourite. Now all i need is to read it...


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## Dibs-h (22 Feb 2010)

Update - despite the uninvited visit, progress must be made.

Having laid out the components on the table, I laid some strips of timber 2" wide (off cuts from the windows) over the window area to get an idea of what it would look like. 2" because the sections would be like that (or need to be), prior to rebating, beading, etc.







Then marked out the curve on some 4"x2",






Proceeded to cut to to shape on the bandsaw, and use the 1st one as a template for the 2nd one. Here's both approx in place,






The rectangular bits at the end were to be trimmed down to form tenons, but as I'll be using a Domino - they'll just be cut off.

Cut some sections of 18mm hardwood ply - catering for almost 1" to be set into grooves in the door stiles\rails,






The plan is to laminate the panels up in pairs, cut a 15mm groove in the stiles\rails and cut a tongue (if that's the right term) all round the panel, glueing them in.

I'm inclined to have have the panels raised & fielded (perhaps sunk) as well - a lot of the doors on the site used as inspiration, have them that way. So will have to go thru the bits I bought from Harrogate - I think there are at least 2 bits amongst them that should work. Cobblers - just realised they won't - as both have bearings on the end - I'll need one without a bearing as the raised\fielded bit will need to be in at least 1" to cater for the 1" tongue.

Will be ordering from Wealdon again.

The ply panels will be doubled up - I was going to laminate them together, some PVA probably - although do have some spray contact adhesive. *Any advice on laminating the ply panels? Or not*


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## Dibs-h (26 Feb 2010)

Update:

The raised panel bit turned up Thurs am and with only working Thursday 1/2 day - spent all day with the router table running the plywood panels thru.

Here's a piccy of the first panel with 1 side run thru,






The cut line isn't wavvy even though the glue lines give that impression. I've had a mixed amount of tear out - so with a little 2 part bondo, it should be ok.

In the end - right or wrongly - decided to laminate the panels using some West epoxy and put some 10mm s\s bar in there too. It shouldn't add much weight, but would make life a lot more difficult kicking it in. I went with s\s as it's a damn sight harder than mild.

Laminated 1 set up last night - see how that goes before doing the rest,






You can see the s\s bars at 1.3's. Panel is amazingly stiff compared to even 18mm ply. It's got me wondering - As I'll have a little left over - *Whether one should use Epoxy to assemble the door - or not?*

I've got to assemble the "lattice work" for the glazed bit this evening and route the back of it - so I can get the steelwork reinforcement for it, welded in the morning and with some luck - hopefully get the door assembled this weekend.


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## Dibs-h (1 Mar 2010)

Update: Sat - 

Had to get the s\s reinforcement welded up for the lattice work. Found a local firm that did it while you wait. Luckily I took a piece of mdf, in which I'd routed semi-circular channels to serve as a jig, so that the welders didn't have to faff about lining things up and we'd be able to gauge how much distortion was creeping in.

Realised that the sections that I'd cut out for the glazing wouldn't quite work - as soon as I rebated them to hold the glass, they slightly short - i.e. they needed to have been cut longer rather than to length.

Did them again.  Here's the newly done lattice work, all rebated , etc.






I haven't yet curved the verticals.

I didn't join them with anything - but "cored" them out from behind - quite quick on the t\s. Here's a cross section,






Here's one of the steel have been dropped into place and the epoxy having set,






Amazingly rigid and not much extra in the way of weight - quite a quick clean up with a small angle grinder with one of those zirconium pad thingies.

Then spent a while in the afternoon routing the grooves in the stiles, muntins, bottom and top rails for the panels,






A million test fits and holes for the reinforcement bars in the panels.

Then decided to assemble it in sections, checking measurements a million times. As the air temp wasn't great - went with PU, had to move damn fast, especially as the assembly started to get bigger. Sorry no WIP on this one, so here's one of the main section,






The PU has foamed everywhere - sharp chisel should sort that out. You should be able to make out the bars poking out of the side of the 2 outer panels - ready to go into the stiles.


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## Dibs-h (2 Mar 2010)

Forgot to add a piccy yesterday - knowing what folk are like about piccies. Here's one where the scale of things are a bit more obvious.


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## Dibs-h (3 Mar 2010)

Update: At last - bloody glued up. I did a dry fit yesterday evening - checked the diagonals and made a note of them. When PU starts going off, time is rather short.

Drilled holes in the stiles, mid rail and top rail to take the 10mm bars poking out of the "lattice work". Filled the holes with epoxy and then smeared PU liberally all over the mating surfaces on the rest of the door. Lines up the tenons with the mortices and 4 large sash cramps later and a lot of cussing - ended up with the diagonals within 2mm of each other - so a result. Didn't end up with too much PU on my hands.

Here's a piccy - sorry for the crappy quality - at 22:30 last night wasn't the best time to take one.






The "mullion" bits haven't been curved yet - Hopefully do that after the rest of the door has been tidied\cleaned up.

Will be ordering the glass in the morning - laminated/6mm spacer/4mm toughened - hopefully have it for Sat am. Got 4 Grade 11 S\S hinges so shouldn't have an issue with the weight (hopefully). Be interesting to see what it weighs - might have to "borrow" the bathroom scales and hope they don't go bang!

Will be drilling a hole or 2 in the lock stile - to receive the magnets for the door contacts.

Can see light at the end of the tunnel - thankfully! Now just select the locks and paint colour.


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## Henning (3 Mar 2010)

That is one substantial thieving little pineapple- deterrent you've got togheter there :shock: 

It will be very interesting to hear how much it weighs!


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## studders (3 Mar 2010)

Like the idea of the reinforced window thingies. 
Might well allow me to have some high windows to let in some light, without introducing a security problem.


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## Dibs-h (4 Mar 2010)

Bit of a clean up last night having removed the sash cramps. Those cheapo Aldi chisels came in handy!

Then went and got the bathroom scales - having set them to KG, and hoping that the didn't go bang (they're those glass ones - SWIMBO would not have been impressed) manoeuvred the door down the side of the bench and having worked out were it balanced in the middle - tapped the scales (so they switch on) and then pushed them under and gingerly placed the door on the scales. Balanced well.

Bare door weight - 42kg approx.

I suspect by the time the glass is in and the additional steel is fitted (there's a little more to go on - :wink it'll probably be closer to 60KG. No idea whether that's good, bad or what - but I wouldn't want to be moving it about often.

Here's a piccy - whilst it was off the bench.






For those interested - the door is 1150x2010x45

Now just a bit of bondo on the raised bits - the raising on the plywood ranges from really good to rubbish - i.e. no splintering to loads.

Ordered the glass - so should have that on Sat am. Gone with 6.4(laminated), 6mm spacer and 4mm toughened.

*Any suggestions of a good Edwardian colour - Blue, Green??*


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## Dibs-h (5 Mar 2010)

Update: a bit of bondo and the lines started looking all nice & sharp again.






Hopefully get them sanded this evening and get the other side started. Glass should be ready to collect in the morning - so with a bit of luck might get it primed tomorrow as well.


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## Henning (7 Mar 2010)

42 kg's... That's not bad, i was guessing closer to 60.
But the glass will of course add a little. 

Nice work!


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

Henning":3bssop2i said:


> 42 kg's... That's not bad, i was guessing closer to 60.
> But the glass will of course add a little.
> 
> Nice work!



I suspect the glass will add perhaps another 5kg - 6.4laminated\6mm spacer\4mm toughened double glazed units.

Cut of the excess tenons and trimmed the stiles to length and buzzed the whole thing with a 40grit disc with a ROS. Went over a few areas with a Nbr 5 first. It's come out a treat. Also curved the verticals in the glazed area. Going to order the locks\handles this week and once the locks have been fitted (temp) then I can work out the dimensions for the s\s protection plates.

Got some more piccies - but they're on the camera phone & the leads at work! Will post them up tomorrow.

Will hopefully have it in primer in a day or so - suspect it's going to have to come into the house - outside temp is hanging around 2-3 celicius.

Also getting on with the frame. Someone showed a nice aluminium threshold strip\plate - any suggestions as suppliers? Needs to be around 1200 wide.


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

You wouldn't want to trap a finger in that door when it's closing :shock:


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## Dibs-h (7 Mar 2010)

matt":3oa93u2v said:


> You wouldn't want to trap a finger in that door when it's closing :shock:



Shoot - there's an idea!

Have the door permanently ajar, say 5-6 inches, with signs up everywhere - saying something - and the moment johnny asbo sticks his arm thru - hydraulics - bamm! No need to shear it off - just keep it\him there until the householder comes back from work, etc. :wink:

On a serious note - the hinge'ing will need to be fairly spot on, can't be doing with a difficult to close door. Mind you I'll probably need to put some sort of restrictor in place (i've seen them in the floor usually)- really wouldn't want to be stood within say 4' of the door and it's open, with a bit of wind catching that sail - you'd wake up sometime the following week!


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## matt (7 Mar 2010)

Perhaps you could get one of those motoring bottle jacks (or maybe two...) to work as soft closers? :lol:


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## Henning (8 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":3666cff9 said:


> Shoot - there's an idea!
> 
> Have the door permanently ajar, say 5-6 inches, with signs up everywhere - saying something - and the moment johnny asbo sticks his arm thru - hydraulics - bamm! No need to shear it off - just keep it\him there until the householder comes back from work, etc. :wink:
> 
> On a serious note - the hinge'ing will need to be fairly spot on, can't be doing with a difficult to close door. Mind you I'll probably need to put some sort of restrictor in place (i've seen them in the floor usually)- really wouldn't want to be stood within say 4' of the door and it's open, with a bit of wind catching that sail - you'd wake up sometime the following week!



You could use one of these and then one of these to sort out any problems from the door being large and heavy though, i would think?


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## Dibs-h (8 Mar 2010)

Henning":kddy5iey said:


> Dibs-h":kddy5iey said:
> 
> 
> > Shoot - there's an idea!
> ...



I recall seeing something floor mounted (ages ago) where it restricted the door opening (i.e. behaved like a regular floor mounted door stop) - but you pressed your foot over it and the restrictor would go down - allowing the door to fully open.

Anyone seen one or know where to get one?


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## Dibs-h (8 Mar 2010)

Update: Piccies as promised,

Here's one with the front of the lattice work shaped,






I had loads of very thin offcuts lying about - just the right width of the lattice work - so thought might as well stick them onto the back of the lattice work - covering over the epoxy. Might make life a bit easier with painting.






Then had to get the door off the table to clean the glue off it that had dripped from previous efforts, so thought let's put it in the opening and see how it looks.






Another showing the glazed area,






And finally one from the inside






Also need to apply the stops\rebates to the glazed area - there aren't any on the Stiles\top & mid rails, then probably into the house for painting. The lattice work has them and need to make the beading.

Also will crack on with the frame this afternoon.


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## Dibs-h (9 Mar 2010)

Update: I had some 4"x2" that I was hoping to use for the frame - dominoes for the joints - with planted on stops. That was the plan, but...

Trimming the opening ended up around 10mm wider than expected - which meant the 47mm thick 4"x2" left a gap too big around the door - didn't want to faff about laminating that as well - so nipped down to the local lumber yard. So convenient having a yard 1 mile away! Got some 4"x3" - cut the the top piece to length and then did the sides. Dohh!!

At that point I'd decided to create the rebate using the TS, and that required the side pieces to be cut to length afterwards - assuming they were slightly long to start with! But I'd already cut them! 

So me and Son get back in the car - already rang up for another 2 lengths of 4"x3" @ 2.1m. Got back 10 mins later and started again!

Decided to create the rebates 1st - here's some I did the 2nd time






The stop is around 30mm wide and 20 deep (5mm for the reinforcement). The rebate is around 60 wide - I felt I would prefer excess jamb on the inside (and therefore more reinforcement) than on the stop side.

Then a bit of procrastination and a quick look on the 'puter at John Henry's garage door frame - and a bit of faffing about we have,






Joint Nbr 1 - will finish joint nbr 2 this evening.


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## MickCheese (9 Mar 2010)

Looking good.

What a difference a door makes!  (I'm sure there is a song in there somewhere)

Like the door a lot.

Mick


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## Dibs-h (10 Mar 2010)

Did the other corner last night, quick thump with a lump hammer on the non visible sides and came together quite well.

Propped it up in the doorway and thankfully the sides need trimming - so no need to go and get a 3rd lot, because they're too short. 






Sorry for the crappyness of the picture - was getting on a bit when I finished. Quick going over with some 80 grit Abranet and a Nbr 5 on the reverse sides (where the mill must have run it thru the bandsaw, cutting it down from bigger stock), followed by taking it inside.

Bit of bondo to fill the odd knot and resin pocket (that I'd scraped out roughly) and then 2 coats of Sikkens WB (had a bit left over from the windows) - one last night and 1 this morning. So might get some top coat on it this evening.

It isn't assembled yet - would have been a lot harder to get into the house - assembled.

Going to get some sleeve anchors to bolt it to the wall - then screw (and epoxy) the steel jamb reinforcement.

Hopefully finish off the beading, etc. for the door.


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## Dibs-h (14 Mar 2010)

Been a very long day - just come back in and I went out around 11:00, blimey where does time go.

Got the door frame fitted, foamed it, leaving it for an hour or so. Then screwed it in using some of those concrete screws that were recommended - RapierStars or something.

Since I had a 100, I did kind of overdo it - but what the hell.

Door is in paint - I can't describe just how forward I've been looking to that! Well grey primer - but still. I'm been thinking about what final colour to use - been a choice between Edwardian Green, Blue and Grey has been a bit of late entrant. I didn't really fancy green - so it was more or less Blue. Now that it's in Grey primer - mind's made up, it's Grey.

I did cut almost to final length - but stopped short. The aluminium cill I've bought - requires the door to be 20mm less than the opening height. Thought it best to cut it to fit the opening - treble check, sleep on it and then come back and cut it to final length, given the shenanigans I had with the frame. :lol:

Took some piccies - but phone is flat, so will post them up tomorrow.


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## billybuntus (15 Mar 2010)

Good work, lookin forward to the pickies


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## Dibs-h (15 Mar 2010)

Piccies: Sat - the glazing stops all done,







Then odds and sods - nothing spectacular to write about, except bondo on the odd bit that I wasn't happy with and loads of sanding.

Sun: Fitted the frame,






Yes - it's probably overkill on the fixings - my excuse is that I had that many, I had to do something with them. :lol:

Here's the door man-handled into position - I think it needs weighing again, it must be putting weight on!






Here's one from the other side,






And finally this morning after the 1st coat of primer seems to have dried,


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## mtt.tr (15 Mar 2010)

looks really good


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## Henning (15 Mar 2010)

Great work Dibs! 

Looks absolutely excellent.


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## Chems (15 Mar 2010)

Looking very good! You must be well chuffed.


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## jhwbigley (15 Mar 2010)

Dibs-h":3l41k6ho said:


> Then a bit of procrastination and a quick look on the 'puter at John Henry's garage door frame - and a bit of faffing about we have,
> 
> .



I wouldn't go copying me, i don't know what i'm doing :lol: 

nice work 8) 

JHB


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## Dibs-h (16 Mar 2010)

Update: managed to get another coat of primer on, after having gone over the existing one with a Scotchbrite pad.






The slightly shiny bits are where the primer went on a bit thick and hasn't fully cured. Bloody resin is starting to creep out in one or 2 places - will just have to keep an eye on it. Any advice? All the Sikkens literature I could find was to leave it to harden and crystallise and then remove it - repairing the topcoat if need be.

Had a complete faff about trying to get the Sikkens topcoat (Rubbol Satura - satin one) in the same grey as the primer. In the end - after a 2nd call to Sikkens Tech line, their chap came back with the 4041 (no idea what it means) colour code and my usual suppliers is delivering 2x1L on Thursday.

Hopefully try and go for a test hinge this evening and perhaps fit the steel jamb reinforcement. Or finish the beading if nothing else.

*John Henry* - I had a moment where I felt that the door jambs should go to the top of the opening and the header fit in between. As opposed to the header going all the way across and the jambs into it. I thought it would visually look right - i.e. bit like the top rail and stiles. :lol:

Which is why I had another look at yours and realised that with my Plan 1 version - it would be a weaker intersection, i.e. outer 3rds of the header would effectively be unsupported. So went with Plan 2 - i.e. same as yours! :wink:


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## MickCheese (16 Mar 2010)

Looking really good.

Are you planning on fitting a weather bar to throw the water off the bottom of the door?

Mick


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## Dibs-h (16 Mar 2010)

MickCheese":23mas5me said:


> Looking really good.
> 
> Are you planning on fitting a weather bar to throw the water off the bottom of the door?
> 
> Mick



Yep - the aluminium sill that I got on the weekend, comes with one and neoprene seals, as below,






Not exactly retro - but if it bothers me, could cut off the upstand, leaving just the bit under the door screwed on (with the seals) and cover it at the front with a wooden weatherbar - looking all consistent. Have to see how it goes.

Not in gold obviously - looks garish. Went with milled aluminium finish.


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## Dibs-h (17 Mar 2010)

Update: chopped up the 5mmx70mm mild steel bar to length for the jamb reinforcement,






Here a piccy of it temporarily in place. Dropped it off this morning to have the corners welded up. Decided not to epoxy it in place, just a ton of screws. 

If for whatever reason the locks change to a diff design\make and different cut outs are required in the steel - this way the steel can come out and the cut outs altered. If it is expoxy'd in place - I'd have to destroy the frame. Even if the frame required repairs or whatever - just wouldn't be possible.

The original rebate was made 5mm deeper - so with the steel it's now around 1/2" and if I leave a gap of around 3mm between the edge of it and the stop - I get the gap for the gasket.

Just now need to decide on the spacing for the hinges, as the cut outs in the plate will have to be made prior to fitting.


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## Dibs-h (19 Mar 2010)

Update: Managed to go over the 2 coats of primer with some Abranet and wasn't terribly happy with the finish in places. Wacked on some knotting solution and then hung the door.







Well hung it in the air that is, :lol: Those King Post roof trusses are just so handy!

I wasn't too happy with the brushed on primer - always the case. Having a HVLP, just ruins expectations. :shock: A brushed finish would no doubt have been perfectly acceptable in the past - but now?

Thinned the Sikkens Onol primer with about 25% white spirit - donned the the PPE and started spraying - thankfully it was in my extremely well ventilated workshop - so not really bothered about extraction.

Went and checked on it this morning (which is when the piccy is from) - very happy with the finish. A little more flatting this evening and perhaps another coat.


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## Henning (19 Mar 2010)

Great work again! I am taking notes and look forward to the actual hanging of the door now! Nice work again!


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## Dibs-h (21 Mar 2010)

Update: been another long day. Can't believe how many times I've had the door off & on again, adjusting here, trimming there! Bloody hard work moving that beast of a door around on your own!

Anyway - it fits like a glove now! 2mm gap all the way round, which I think is good enough. Pulled it back off, hoping to flat it down again and give it the 1st coat of topcoat! 

Things take forever - especially when you get rather anal about finishing and have a HVLP. 

Fitted the sill, having fitted the jamb (obviously) and notched it for the hinges.

I'm shattered and I dare say my back is going to make itself known tomorrow! :shock:

I'll post up some piccies in the morning, when I get back to work (for a rest)!


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## Dibs-h (22 Mar 2010)

Here's some piccies from the weekend,

Here's all the beading (door and windows) all laid out,






The beading on either side of the bowed uprights in the glazed panel - I only cut one roughly to shape, electing to get the others into primer and then cutting to final shape. Here's in primer,






The white ones - for the windows - are in WB whilst the grey ones are in oil based. In the end took them into the house as the oil base was taking ages to dry.

With the door "hanging" took the opportunity to play about with the hinge positions - here's 4 hinges,






Now due to the position of the mi-rail - I couldn't achieve 4 evenly spaced. This is what I went with in the end, not really liking the one with a pair at each end.






Once I'd worked out the spacing and was happy with it - used on offcut as a rod, transferred the spacing to that and then to steel doorjamb, to which I'd applied masking tape, otherwise bit hard to see pencil marks. :lol:






Because of the knuckle, the jamb has to be recessed or a cutout - not having a milling m\c to hand, I went with the cut out,






You can also see the Aquamac door seal. I sprayed the rebate with some contact adhesive (lightly) and the back of the seal, fitted it in place and then when teh 5mm steel went up against it - it held nicely in place.

Here's the 1st hinge - they are recessed in about double what they would normally be,






Here's both hinges on - I elected to fit the top and bottom hinges, to allow the door to get gapped up before doing hinges 2 & 3. Might not be the best method - seemed logical at the time.






The million bits of masking tape were so I could mark the screw locations and see them with ease. Quick whack with a hammer and punch and drilled out with ease with a HSS drill bit.

Once hung - I had to take it off a few times to trim it here and there. Probably could have done it in 1 go - but I took it super slow, not wanting to ruin the door, by trying to rush.






Removed the door and then fitted the sill






I wasn't happy with the finish of the door, so flatted it all back - thank goodness for Abranet!






Now it's super smooth, so hopefully another coat of primer and we should be good for the top coat.

Here's a couple of shots with the door fitted, before I took it off - I'm very pleased how it's turned out.











Now - I'm having 2nd thoughts about the supplied aluminium weather bar - so will probably cut off the actual weather bar but use the bit underneath that contains the seals. Then fit a traditional wooden weather bar. Will have to check to see if anyone local does on 1200 long.


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## Chems (23 Mar 2010)

Looks brilliant Dibs, you should be proper proud of that!


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## Dibs-h (6 Apr 2010)

I'm not updating this thread anymore as the door has now been fitted - 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/work ... 5-225.html

and everything is now back in the main thread.

Here's a gratuitous shot anyway.


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