# Baby rattle -what finish ?



## OldWood (11 Oct 2010)

There's been a rush locally in baby production in my daughter's generation, including our first grandchild, so rattle making is the order of the day - quite good to find something to make a number of to hone up on the tool technique.

I've seen that 'vegetable oil' is the recommended finish - is this any vegetable oil or is there a preferred one?

Thanks
Rob


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## CHJ (11 Oct 2010)

I'd recommend plain Liquid Paraffin ---ether the light (thinner) version in Chestnuts Food Safe Oil or the thicker BP version from chemists---if you want to give them some measure of moisture resistance, just in case there is a reaction component blended into whatever cooking oil you might choose.


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## Kalimna (11 Oct 2010)

I would also second the notion of plain paraffin oil - Chestnuts Food Safe being the one I know, as it is essentially inert.

On a second note, (and due to the arrival 15weeks ago of my son), could you give me an idea how to make a rattle, as I would love to make one. My turning skills are rather limited to a few bowls, but am up for a challenge (maybe!).

Cheers,
Adam


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## Jonzjob (11 Oct 2010)

This could help?

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/turn ... %20rattles

I usually use sunfloweroil on mine.


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## Richard Findley (11 Oct 2010)

There are a wide range of finishes that are "Child Safe" but, just to be on the safe side, I will be using Chestnut Food Safe Finish for the ones I plan to make for my iminant arrival....

Cheers

Richard


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## OldWood (11 Oct 2010)

Hi guys 

Adam - try this for guidance if this is the type of rattle you're after

http://www.torbaywoodturners.co.uk/rattle.htm

biggest problem I've found is turning the walls too thin. My third attempt (done following these instructions, though I preferred to use a gouge rather than the Forstner bits) looks good and rattles fine but will be given a nice finish and condemned to be 'look-see' only as I suspect it will break up if abused. Small bits of gravel make a better sound than beans I've found.

Out of interest - as a survey !! - do babies prefer the rattle or the handle with rings on it ?

Thanks for your guidance everyone.

Rob


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## CHJ (11 Oct 2010)

One thing to watch if you are doing rings, either make them a good fit on the stem so little fingers can't get under them or large enough to give clearance on small fingers.
I've had the pleasure of trying to calm a young mum down whilst trying to split a ring to get a set of pretty little pink fingers out of a jamb. (not one of my creations thank goodness -- rattle or baby, before you ask :lol: )


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## Kalimna (12 Oct 2010)

Rob / John,

Thanks for the info - I think perhaps the captive rings are a little beyond my abilities as of right now.... 
However, I may just give the other sort a shot.

You mention thin-ness of walls being a problem - what wood do you think might be best for transmitting the sound? I imagine something hard would work better than soft?

Cheers,
Adam


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## duncanh (12 Oct 2010)

I use a home-made mix of beeswax and carnauba wax.
Whatever finish is applied the rattle will be stuck in the mouth and the finish will likely deteriorate. 
Does this happen to the same extent with Chestnut Finishing Oil/liquid paraffin?


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## frugal (12 Oct 2010)

Would anything classed as Toy Safe be sufficient (I am thinking Chestnut Hard Wax Oil) or would it have to be food safe?


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## Jonzjob (12 Oct 2010)

When I was dealing with the Gloucester trading standards they told me that child safe was superior to food safe. Not sure how they worked that one out, but to be child safe every batch has to be tested..

I would assume that toy = child in this case?


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## jpt (12 Oct 2010)

frugal":568p014d said:


> Would anything classed as Toy Safe be sufficient (I am thinking Chestnut Hard Wax Oil) or would it have to be food safe?



Chestnut Hard Wax Oil is safe to use on toys to quote there bumf "Complies with EN-71 making it safe for use on toys"

I belive all Chestnut finishes are to this spec but if not sure there website gives the details.

john


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## Terry Smart (13 Oct 2010)

So many babies being born! Congratulations to all concerned!

To be regarded as toy/child safe (the phrases are pretty much interchangeable) a coating has to comply with part 3 of the EN-71 regulation. You can read more about the test here.

We have had many of our products independently tested to this regulation and they have passed, which means they can be safely used on toys and nursery furniture and other items which a child could suck, chew, lick etc and they will suffer no ill effects.

We haven't tested all of our products - for example Lemon Oil and Friction Polish and although we are confident they would pass, to label them as toy safe would imply that we also think they are suitable (ie hardwearing enough) for toys, which we don't feel to be the case.

Curiously, we haven't tested the Food Safe Finish for this very reason; whilst it would almost certainly pass, we can't recommend it for use on toys! The other products have been tested and would, in our opinion, make a better job of protecting the item.

As far as I am aware, the test for food safety is different to that for toy safety; the former checks for more elements and I believe the limits are lower too.

I hope that helps.


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## OldWood (13 Oct 2010)

Terry - many thanks for that. I'd forgotten you contribute to these pages and have used your company website Contact facility to ask this question, so no doubt the answer will be the same.

However ..... your post is helpful in that it says what is NOT suitable (though Safe or Probably Safe !) due to lack of tolerance to slavering lips, so would your Hard Wax Oil finish but more capable in this application - or perhaps something else. 

Perhaps we could do some trails to see which is the best   . I've got at least four to make and there does seem to be some others here with the same project in mind. 

Rob


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## Terry Smart (13 Oct 2010)

Hi Rob

I'm glad you found my answer helpful, I've been giving this some thought since my earlier post...

I think I'd opt for one of our 'softer' finishes for a rattle, such as Shellac Sanding Sealer and WoodWax 22 or Hard Wax Oil or Finishing Oil.
My reasoning is that these finishes are flexible enough to 'give' slightly if bitten (or gummed!) on. It's not that I'm worried about the other coatings chipping off (that really shouldn't happen under these circumstances) but a flexible coating should be longer lasting and shouldn't harm tender gums.
Hard Wax Oil would be a good option.


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## CHJ (13 Oct 2010)

Buff with Canauba wax should be pretty good at resisting the gumming and it's regularly used to coat fruit and veg to reduce moisture loss.

But if time was available for surface to dry I'd tend to give items a safe oil soak first to add a bit of depth to the wet resistance. Do you see any bonding problems with wax over oil Terry, I've never encountered any once the oil has surface dried/cured.


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## frugal (13 Oct 2010)

Terry Smart":3i48lb26 said:


> Hard Wax Oil would be a good option.



We have just had a friend give birth and I have a yen to give them a gift, and I have a can of hard wax oil. It almost seems like it was meant to be  All I need to do now is get it done before he gets old enough to turn his own toys 

Jammy little sod was born on sunday evening at ten past eleven. Or 10:10GMT on 10/10/10. No one ever has an excuse to forget his birthday.


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## OldWood (13 Oct 2010)

Terry
Many thanks for your second answer - I see there's a request for yet another contribution from you. It looks as if this gives me an excuse for a tin of your Hard Wax Oil.

I must admit that when I started this thread I had no idea it would show up even more people facing father / grandfatherhood. Someone did say recently that there was a spike in the birthrate this year, and certainly my daughter has a large collection of people she knows who are on the baby production route.

Rob


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## Kalimna (13 Oct 2010)

Rather slightly off-topic, but if you plot birth-rates over the course of a year, there is always a peak around september/october. Something to do with Christmas fun being about 9months beforehand, give or take a week or two... 

Cheers,
Adam


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## Terry Smart (14 Oct 2010)

CHJ":30lwr1m7 said:


> Do you see any bonding problems with wax over oil Terry, I've never encountered any once the oil has surface dried/cured.



That's in interesting one Chas; technically it shouldn't work, but it does. I've done it for years and others have done it for even longer with no problems at all.


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## OldWood (14 Oct 2010)

Chas - having introduced the idea of 'a soak in safe oil first', what in this context is a 'safe oil' and some guidance on the soak period would be appreciated ? 

I guess that any soak period would be subject to the wood type but if you have experience of this, some thoughts would be useful.

Rob


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## CHJ (14 Oct 2010)

OldWood":3d38u8tc said:


> ...'a soak in safe oil first', what in this context is a 'safe oil' and some guidance on the soak period would be appreciated ?
> ..



See food safe finish here for one product, basically a light grade of liquid parafin BP which penitrates well.
As far as soaking, a couple or so coats by brush, allowing the wood to absorb as and where it likes will end up with a situation where there is still oil left on most of the surface after a few minutes, at this point wipe off surplus and put aside to dry off. You will find different absorbtion rates dependant on grain orientation. 
These are just my methods and not necessarily those used by others or even recomended by oil suppliers.


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## OldWood (14 Oct 2010)

Many thanks Chas - I've got all the info I need now and can go ahead with production ! 

I've discovered these are one of those wood turning exercises that needs to be done in the right sequence; my efforts so far have all ended up cutting the walls too thin - the last one did at least remain together but wouldn't last any use. 

Many thanks all who've contributed to this thread; I did think when I posted originally, I would get a YES/NO answer and didn't expect the discussion to go on for the best part of a week. I hope others have got something out of it too.

Rob


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