# Woodworm



## Esox Lucius (5 Dec 2010)

Hi

Whilst i dont think this is in the correct forum section i need to ask so apologies in advance if its wrongly placed.

I have been clearing one of my out buildings and noticed i have/had wood worm quite bad in some areas.

so two questions.

1/ Will they die off during the winter as its real cold out there?

2/ If they wont be killed off how do i treat it so they do die?

Thanks

Mark


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## The_Stig (5 Dec 2010)

To be honest the frost might kill them but at work we find the best thing to do is kit up and spray them as that's the only sure way of getting rid of the little critters.

I'm not sure what the chemical is that we use but when I get to the office tomorrow I'll have a look on the side of the bottles and let you know.


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## Jonzjob (5 Dec 2010)

It would take at least a couple of weeks in a freezer to kill them so a bit of sub zero wouldn't do the job me-thinks. Where is the infestation? In your wood stock or in the building?

Over here if/when I get woodworm I use the stuff the French use and douse it well. It's called Xylophene and is very effective!! Not sure what it would be called in the U.K. or indeed if it's allowed to be sold there?


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## The_Stig (5 Dec 2010)

> It's called Xylophene and is very effective!! Not sure what it would be called in the U.K. or indeed if it's allowed to be sold there?



Good old British health and safety probably won't allow it, I think new government guidelines state that we must ask them to leave nicely, notice must be given in writing and then a 30 day consultation period must prevail before eviction, lol. :mrgreen:


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## Esox Lucius (5 Dec 2010)

Well...i have a series of brick buildings in the order from left to right....stable...chicken shed...piggery...large brick shed...garge/workshop in development. These are all connected together like a set of terrace buildings.

It was while i was moving stuff into the far end of the buildings i notice alot of damage to a couple of saw horses i put in there yonks ago...15+ years and forgot about...i cannot see any rafter damage but along all parts of the building, worst in the stable to my workshop there is some signs of lava damage..i have an old desk in my workshop section and i noticed it in the legs of that and a few holes in my old workbench on 2 of the legs.

The saw horses i mentioned has it that bad it s legs are just dust....trouble is i only ever go into the chicken shed..piggery...shed and workshop and used the stable as a dumping area...how i feel i am now regretting it.

Good ole H&S and COSHH strikes back and limits our pest control.

Thanks

Mark


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## dickm (5 Dec 2010)

> It would take at least a couple of weeks in a freezer to kill them so a bit of sub zero wouldn't do the job me-thinks. Where is the infestation? In your wood stock or in the building?


Anyone know the precise time-temp relationship for killing these beasties by freezing? Presumably, it's much the same as that for heat killing of pathogens in food? 
I've got a worm-eaten restoration job for a friend at the moment, and it's been sitting in the shed going down to -10C and below at nights. We've got more frost forecast, so this might at least slow the little b***ers down.


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## The_Stig (5 Dec 2010)

> COSHH



How could I forget about COSHH!

I know at work we only spray during the summer months but as for how long the critters could last outside in the cold I'm not sure. I doubt if I look in the 'Timber Beetles and Pest' book in the office I'll state the personal survival skills of woodworm.

Another favourite method is to put the boards in the vacuum kiln, that soon sorts them out!


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## Jonzjob (5 Dec 2010)

Some info here http://www.ourproperty.co.uk/guides/woo ... ol-p1.html and this http://www.whatprice.co.uk/building/woodworm.html

If you google 'killing woodworm by freezing' there is more..


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## houtslager (5 Dec 2010)

An old restorers trick is to dose the effected wood with pure turpentine.

hth,

k


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## Sgian Dubh (5 Dec 2010)

dickm":pgc3pck5 said:


> Anyone know the precise time-temp relationship for killing these beasties by freezing?


Freeze treatments to destroy insect pests, including eggs, grubs and larvae work best when the temperature drops rapidly. The target temperature should be reached within twenty four hours throughout the object to be most effective, not just the surrounding air temperature or the outer portions of the piece. Insects can adapt to slow changes in temperature much better than they can cope with relatively quick changes. The freezer must be capable of taking temperatures down to at least -18ºC (-0.4ºF) and then once the object has reached this temperature it has to be maintained for at least two weeks. If the freezer can maintain temperatures as low as –30ºC (-22ºF) the treatment period, once the necessary temperature is reached, can be as short as three days.

A difficulty that has to be overcome using freeze treatments is maintaining the moisture content of the object being treated. Water migrates out of wood as atmospheric relative humidity drops, and cold air has very low relative humidity so water moves out of wood and it may become too dry-- freeze drying is one method of seasoning timber. Small objects must be wrapped and sealed in plastic bags to help maintain moisture content levels, and if air can be evacuated out of the bag prior to freezing this helps to maintain the object’s moisture content. After treatment the wrapping needs to stay in place until the object properly reaches normal temperatures to prevent condensation onto it as this may cause damage to finishes and so on.

Even rather large furniture items such as tables and chairs can be treated successfully if they are bagged and frozen in a walk-in freezer. Relative humidity needs maintaining at a suitable level, typically approximately 50%, in order to maintain wood moisture content at roughly 10%. If the piece has a lot of decorative veneer or inlay there is a high risk of irretrievable damage to these parts so freeze treatment is very likely to be inappropriate. There may also be a risk of damage to the applied finish that could negate the possibility of using this form of treatment.

Freezing might also succeed if there is an infestation in unworked but seasoned wood at about 10% MC or below where the boards can be close or dead stacked, similarly plastic wrapped as a pack, and frozen. However, wood is a good insulator and a large stack of wood might take considerable time to reach the target temperature. In this case individual wrapping and stickering as for seasoning would significantly reduce the time required to freeze the wood. Slainte.


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## mtr1 (5 Dec 2010)

Or how about using some of this. The freezing method seems a bit longwinded.


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## Pvt_Ryan (5 Dec 2010)

Esox Lucius":1bgii6wv said:


> ... worst in the stable to my workshop there is some signs of *lava *damage



Tbh I think the woodworm are the least of your worries.


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## misterfish (6 Dec 2010)

Insects can be tough little devils.

My first job after university was in the herbarium at Kew Gardens where one of the potential problems was infestations of herbarium beetles (somewhat like woodworm). As specimens were arriving on a daily basis it was vital to kill any beetles or larvae and at first we used a gas chamber flooded with phosgene - we had to wear gas masks and use a flame based gas tester to show any leaks. This was a rota based task and not one that I enjoyed. After a while they changed to using commercial freezers where the specimens were left for a couple of weeks.

I'm sure there are 'eco' solutions to killing woodworm based on boron.

Misterfish


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## Sgian Dubh (6 Dec 2010)

misterfish":2dbjtj0c said:


> I'm sure there are 'eco' solutions to killing woodworm based on boron. Misterfish


I'm not sure about how plants might react to this but heat of 50ºC (122ºF) and higher, maintained for extended periods, kills most insects at all stages of their life cycle. As with freezing, holding the moisture content of the treated object at an appropriate level is vital. In the early 1990s the German Thermo Lignum company was a pioneer in developing insect pest control using a purpose built chamber system with temperature and humidity controls to prevent damage to treated objects. This system controls atmospheric relative humidity at a set point decided by the customer [usually 50%] and raises temperatures to 52ºC (126ºF) in the chamber and treatment cycles last, on average, twenty four hours. House longhorn beetle is more tolerant and needs a temperature of 55˚C. Treatment times are therefore quicker than freezing and large furniture items can be treated effectively without the need for bagging. Slainte.


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## Pvt_Ryan (6 Dec 2010)

Is this stuff any good?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RENTOKIL-Woodworm ... 35aca454dc

Need to treat a saw handle.


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## shipbadger (6 Dec 2010)

I live in an area (the Forest of Dean) where woodworm is endemic. You soon learn that any unprotected timber is sooner or later going to be infected. The beetles can be choosy in their targets for infestation and some timber will resist the attacks better than others. If you have a woodburner and buy in logs don't leave unused ones around indoors in late spring as it's highly likely that they'll contain grubs which will hatch out and fly (May time). Soft wood and the inner cores of plywood are favourites, especially the cheaper plywoods with fewer and thicker layers. As a matter of course I chemically treat all timber I consider vulnerable. I wish I didn't have to but I know that just killing off an existing infection will only be a short term solution.

Tony Comber


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## Halo Jones (6 Dec 2010)

Hi Tony,

Can you let us know what you use. I need to treat my workshop as there are signs of some mild woodworm attack and would like to treat the whole place before it gets any worse. I have found this stuff called Boron 12 Ultra but it is rather expensive (25 L would cost ~£90 to treat the whole place). Is there anything cheaper out there?

Cheers,

Halo


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## shipbadger (6 Dec 2010)

Halo,

I normally use Cuprinol 5 Star, I've just checked the price at Screwfix and it's currently £30 for five litres. None of the treatments are particularly cheap, but don't just price it against your wood costs, consider the labour involved in producing or repairing items. If you want a whole shed done it may be an idea to get a quote from a contractor as the labour involved in doing a whole shed is not inconsiderable. Contractors will spray and be much faster. Check around the house, floorboards and attic before phoning the contractor, you never know! I phoned a contractor in the summer as I think I may heve fungal attack in my attic (300+ year old timbers and 25 years since last treated) and he was offering what was described as an environmentally friendly treatment for infestation; no idea what though as he never got back to me. Some tradespeople really know how to lose business.

Tony

Just looked up Boron 12 Ultra on google, this may have been what the contractor was offering to apply back in the summer. Seems a reasonable price too.


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## Esox Lucius (6 Dec 2010)

I had seen the boron ultra 12 myself and think i will give it a go..one thing i do need to know is this.....do i need to get every single inch of wood whilst i am treating or does it matter if i miss the parts that are tight against the walls and imovable?

Thanks

Mark


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## dickm (6 Dec 2010)

mtr1":2843qj6z said:


> Or how about using some of this. The freezing method seems a bit longwinded.



Two reasons for not using that - being mean, I was hoping this d**n freezing weather might do the trick, and secondly, the item is a cradle, which just might get used for its intended purpose (the owner seems a bit unclear about what causes babies  ). If there was any chance of that, it's probably better not to use anything too toxic.


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## Shrubby (9 Dec 2010)

I use a water based treatment called Constrain. I've worked with museums who insist on this or the Thermolignum process Richard has already mentioned
It's sold by Historyonics
The website has a lot of information on dealing with insect pests
Matt


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## Sgian Dubh (9 Dec 2010)

Matt, Constrain is a permethrin formulation. It falls into the following category of insect pest control. Slainte.

Pyrethrins and synthetic pyrethroids: eg, natural pyrethrins, phenothrin, permethrin and cyphenothrin. Natural pyrethrins such as pyrethrum, derived from a number of species of the genus Chrysanthemum, eg _C. coccineum _have been used as insecticides for centuries. Gardeners in the know quite frequently intersperse their vegetables with chrysanthemum ‘companion plants’ to reduce insect damage to their prized crops. Natural pyrethrins are now supplemented by man-made pyrethroids, some of which degrade quickly in UV light, and others are very persistent and linger for a long time in the environment; this persistent characteristic makes these pyrethroids significantly more toxic to both man and insect pests than natural pyrethrins. It also means that only low doses of the most toxic formulations are required, but there are significant health risks to mammals and man if used indiscriminately or carelessly. The action of this group of chemicals is neurotoxic leading to death and their application is as dusts, powders, foams, sprays, and as liquids injected into infected objects such as furniture. Pyrethroids are effective killers of a wide range of wood boring beetles and other insects.


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## Stanislav (6 Aug 2017)

I recommend using a microwave emitter to fight the beetle. Recently, such instruments have appeared. The emitter simply fries the larva in the tree and does it quickly. The Beetles have destroyed the house of my ancestors. And recently started to eat my barn. For two days I managed to get rid of this pest.


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## dickm (6 Aug 2017)

Stanislav":2hhbzhh8 said:


> I recommend using a microwave emitter to fight the beetle. Recently, such instruments have appeared. The emitter simply fries the larva in the tree and does it quickly. The Beetles have destroyed the house of my ancestors. And recently started to eat my barn. For two days I managed to get rid of this pest.



So it's true. Putin does have access to a death-ray!


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