# What rivets do I need



## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

I am a complete novice with metal working but have a project that I want made. Cant even get anyone to give me a quote so going the home built rout. Most of it is 2mm plate steel and I can get the steel cut to size and folded locally. Rivets seem like the best option for attaching the sections to each other but the only concern is the steel box will get very hot (est 200C +). Quick glance at some rivets and I saw some part of it was aluminium and I know the melting point of aly is pretty low so can I get all steel rivets and can these be put in with one of those hand held rivet guns? If yes where is a good place to buy them for a 100 or so?

Thanks


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## sunnybob (17 Mar 2017)

Aluminium melts at 660c.

As long as you are not building something that needs to be structurally strong, no problem.
If there is heavy weight on it, you should have an angle iron frame for support.


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

Ah good wont get up to 600c
Just remember leaving an old aly saucepan on a fire and coming back to molten blob

Hoping not to use angle iron and just get the edge 30mm folded over to 90 degrees to attach the other side too. Need to keep the weight down as much as possible


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## sunnybob (17 Mar 2017)

2 mm plate is quite strong, with a fold in it its a lot stronger.
c'mon, what are you making?
maybe an outdoor oven at that temp?


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

sunnybob":3gkzt8r4 said:


> 2 mm plate is quite strong, with a fold in it its a lot stronger.
> c'mon, what are you making?
> maybe an outdoor oven at that temp?



Pretty close Bob  


It's a retort for making charcoal


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

A neater smaller version of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceJap39Qwro&t=34s


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## pcb1962 (17 Mar 2017)

Something to bear in mind is that unlike proper rivets, pop rivets have a habit of stretching and the whole assembly may become a bit loose and rattly after a few heating and cooling cycles. Have you asked the place that's going to cut and fold the steel how much more they will charge to weld it for you?


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

pcb1962":36shkmuw said:


> Something to bear in mind is that unlike proper rivets, pop rivets have a habit of stretching and the whole assembly may become a bit loose and rattly after a few heating and cooling cycles. Have you asked the place that's going to cut and fold the steel how much more they will charge to weld it for you?



They don't do welding. I like the idea of being made of panels so as when they burn through they can be replaced without chucking the whole thing

Thanks for the warning on movement


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## sunnybob (17 Mar 2017)

Interesting. I take it you have an endless supply of brushwood?
keep us informed as I am always curious as to the cost savings on this type of thing. How much does a bag of charcoal cost as opposed to how much will all this cost.


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## Rorschach (17 Mar 2017)

Beau":1i8ww7to said:


> pcb1962":1i8ww7to said:
> 
> 
> > Something to bear in mind is that unlike proper rivets, pop rivets have a habit of stretching and the whole assembly may become a bit loose and rattly after a few heating and cooling cycles. Have you asked the place that's going to cut and fold the steel how much more they will charge to weld it for you?
> ...




Pick yourself up a cheap stick welder and learn to do it yourself. If you juat run short tacks on the panels then it will be easy to grind them off and replace in the future, no more difficult than drilling/cutting rivets.


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

sunnybob":1kp5j728 said:


> Interesting. I take it you have an endless supply of brushwood?
> keep us informed as I am always curious as to the cost savings on this type of thing. How much does a bag of charcoal cost as opposed to how much will all this cost.



Yes it's a small farm with 3km of hedgerow!

You don't make charcoal for the savings  

Imported is insanely cheap but god know what goes into it to make it as heavy as it is and who knows what endangered wood is used to make it.

No you make charcoal for the pleasure of it and the quality of the end product. UK charcoal in my experience is a far superior but expensive. It lights faster, gives off no smoke and lasts longer. We sell a few bags each year but certainly don't do it for the money


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## novocaine (17 Mar 2017)

I think you'd be better off using hot rivets and a peening hammer.  in essence short bits of steel rod and loads of banging. 
pop rivets are aluminium you are right, you say only 200C, but as your effectively chucking it in a fire you have no control over that and yes you could end up with a puddle of rivets. the retort you show in the video is hot riveted. 

stick welder, a cheap ass little buzz box from the likes of machine mart, a helmet a pair of gloves and a couple of sticks, much better idea, for under a 100 notes you've got a tool for life. I'm amazed that as a farm you haven't already got one to be honest, how do you fix your tractor? lol. 

https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/010110942/


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

novocaine":ijdaha5a said:


> I think you'd be better off using hot rivets and a peening hammer.  in essence short bits of steel rod and loads of banging.
> pop rivets are aluminium you are right, you say only 200C, but as your effectively chucking it in a fire you have no control over that and yes you could end up with a puddle of rivets. the retort you show in the video is hot riveted.
> 
> stick welder, a cheap ass little buzz box from the likes of machine mart, a helmet a pair of gloves and a couple of sticks, much better idea, for under a 100 notes you've got a tool for life. I'm amazed that as a farm you haven't already got one to be honest, how do you fix your tractor? lol.
> ...



Thing is the rivets wont be in the direct firing line. The inside will have a liner to protect the outer steel from the heat. Had thought of learning to weld but I hear so much conflicting advice on types of welder and how difficult it is have put off getting one. Poor power supply here out in the sticks so that probably limits our options. Never broken a tractor by the way


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## novocaine (17 Mar 2017)

not trying hard enough then.  
joy of stick, they can take pretty ropey power and still work, pipeliners still use them and they weld in all sorts of unusual locations (desert, forest, underwater) so there must be something in it. you only really need to know the basics for what you're building, a 10 minute video and an hour with a pile of 6010 welding electrodes and a chunk of steel will get you up to speed. 

if you're set on rivets, get steel rivets, cost more but will last far better. 

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rivets/5124123/

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rivets/3513335/

how strong are your hands? they'll be strong after popping a few hundred rivets. if you can, get yourself a scissor riveter, more umph for your effort and won't end up unable to hold a pen (I shall refine from the crude comments here).


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## Beau (17 Mar 2017)

novocaine":3cx2esp3 said:


> not trying hard enough then.
> joy of stick, they can take pretty ropey power and still work, pipeliners still use them and they weld in all sorts of unusual locations (desert, forest, underwater) so there must be something in it. you only really need to know the basics for what you're building, a 10 minute video and an hour with a pile of 6010 welding electrodes and a chunk of steel will get you up to speed.
> 
> if you're set on rivets, get steel rivets, cost more but will last far better.
> ...




Thanks

Sounds like I should take a serious look at welders.


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## novocaine (17 Mar 2017)

shame your the other end of the country, I'd have lent you my buzzbox and shown you how to do the basics with it.


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## pcb1962 (17 Mar 2017)

Beau":2h4bq58x said:


> novocaine":2h4bq58x said:
> 
> 
> > not trying hard enough then.
> ...


If you're looking at stick (aka MMA) welders think about going a little bit upmarket to an inverter welder, you'll find it much easier to strike and maintain an arc than with a basic transformer welder and you'll find the learning process a hell of a lot less frustrating.


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## novocaine (17 Mar 2017)

and with that comes issues over power supply, a basic buzzbox will work on anything (including a generator with massive fluctuations in output), an inverter is far more picky. yes they are easier to work with, but for the level of work required here I'd say a transformer is more than adequate and it's considerably cheaper (100 notes). 

it's nice to have the best stuff, but at times the old stuff is more than adequate.


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## Hitch (17 Apr 2017)

I'm probably a bit late to the party, but sounds like Tek screws could well be they way forward....


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## Beau (17 Apr 2017)

Hitch":yxz3rshw said:


> I'm probably a bit late to the party, but sounds like Tek screws could well be they way forward....



Thanks Hitch

I went down the rivet rout and have got steel/steel rivets. They are working well for my needs


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