# Chainsaw mill??



## neilyweely (21 Sep 2008)

I have recently obtained some rather large oak pieces, 800 x 600 or thereabouts, and approx 60mm thick. What I would like to do is cut these pieces down so they were 25mm, or 30mm thick, and use them in the kitchen I am building. I have some oak planks, which will be used, but would love to be know that I had turned a lump of tree into the worktop!!
And this is a LUMP of tree.
I have been to a few of my 'contacts' but no-one has the ability to cut this wood down for me. I guess I could take it to the mill down the road, but I had a brainwave.
I have a chainsaw. I thought about making a frame out of some metal to hold the chainsaw so the blade was horizontal over a table of sheet metal, and use a fence to feed the wood through into the blade accurately. Sort of a homemade mill. It would be used at home so health and safety would not be such an issue. 
Does anyone have any comments on this, maybe constructive ideas rather than just shooting my idea down in flames. I know it's a little nuts, but I am banging my head against a brick wall here. I also am aware the chainsaw is set to crosscut, but in reality it is able to rip with some success, so it could work in theory.

Come on OPJ, Digit, Woodwayze, Mike G, Devonwoody and all my mentors. I need your assistance. And anyone else with an opinion would be MOST welcome to pass comment here. I have to do something, or will end up paying the earth. I could get my hands on a LOT of timber if something like this could work. So it could end up saving me thousands. Just need to make sure it doesn't cost thousands in healthcare bills!!!

Help folks. Please.

Neil


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## TheTiddles (21 Sep 2008)

You can get rip chains for chainsaws, they are considerably more dangerous than the usual blades, whilst your method sounds fun it is also a little dicey, maybe a local saw mill would do the job for you for a price? Then you'll have to transport it there and back

Aidan


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## Jake (21 Sep 2008)

Why not use it at 60mm thick, there are many top-end kitchens with at least that thickness (and standard worktop height is ergonomically wrong except for quite short people by today's standards, i.e. 5'6" or less, so the extra 2cmor so will help there, too).


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## JonnyD (22 Sep 2008)

Have a look on this site it may give you some ideas how to construct something

http://www.logosol.co.uk/

Jon


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## Argee (22 Sep 2008)

Right, sit down, Neil, take a deep breath and *re-think this*, please. Chainsaws, even in the hands of 20-year experienced professionals, are *extremely *dangerous and are *not *meant to be held in an home-made jig - where's any form of safety?

Feeding a large lump of wood into a static chainsaw is, for me at least, something I would *never *consider. How's your health generally - insurances topped up? What's the distance to your nearest Casualty Dept? 

Sorry to sound a bit flippant, but I'd really reconsider this whole idea. I'd sooner leave the wood in a lump than risk taking lumps out of your extremities. :shock: 

Ray.


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## OPJ (22 Sep 2008)

Doing it with a chainsaw will produce a lot of wastage. I don't think you'd be able to get two 25mm boards from the one at 60mm, this way.

How dry is the tree? Was it felled recently?

It's very likely any worktop you cut from this tree will warp, bow, split and do everything to p*** you off if it's used in its 'green' state.

It could even curl up as soon as you begin cutting - however dry it may be on the outside, there'll be a great amount of moisture on the inside, which'll unbalance the piece and almost certainly cause it to cup or bow.

I think you'd be better off ripping it down into narrower widths first, and then getting these deep-ripped on a band resaw somewhere, like your local mill. That's if the timber is dry enough, of course. :wink:


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## Mcluma (22 Sep 2008)

PM Tokyo Stu.

He is your man for this. He has done lots and lots of ripping with a chainsaw


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## neilyweely (22 Sep 2008)

hello foks

TBH I am aware its a little mad, but I have had such a problem getting this oak and now I want to maximise the lumps I have. So....

Mcluma - Thanks mate, will do.
OPJ - the lump I am thinking of in particular must have been felled 10 years ago. It is obviously very dry now, and I think it may be dry the whole way thru. However, I do not know, and do not have a lot of experience with oak of this age.
Argee - I AM a twenty year pro, well 15 anyway, and you are right, my old gaffer would clip me round the ear and take my saw off me!! But I am getting desperate here. I know desperation and a chainsaw are a dangerous mix, just wondered if anyone had ever constructed anything like this. And the hospital is almost next door now (just moved!!)
Jonny and Jake - thanks folks
And Tiddles - Fun? Yeah, you're right. God help us!! I hope you don't own a chainsaw!!! You're as bad as me. Trouble is, chainsaws ARE fun, aren't they??

So, it's a shame, cos I don't wanna have to use the oak as 60mm, it involves getting more of the same, and will no doubt introduce other problems. Should never have told the Mrs an oak kitchen would cost thousands from a shop; now look where I am.

I am gonna have to do some thinking on this one. 

Thanks all

Neil (2 arms, 2 legs, 1 head and everything else in check..........so far)

Jonny - wow, thats the sort of thing I am on about. Didn't think for a minute you could buy one!! Maybe I'm not so mad, or at least so is somebody else, and they got there first!!! Think I might buy the 'timberjig' and pay a visit to the woods!!! They say it'll work with my saw I have, so..... 

The whole idea of this is to keep the costs down, that is why I am trying to mill my own wood. I don't suppose anyone knows where I can get some cheap oak near Bedford, do they? I have the facilities to sort it out if it is not too bad. Thanks folks, and sorry to be such a cheapskate!!!


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## herdsman (22 Sep 2008)

Hi

Take a look at these sites;

www.sawuk.com
www.chainsawmill.co.uk

I believe that the chain saw needs to be at least 50mm longer than the cut (ie 600 mm cut=650mm bar and chain).

I have looked at this but the wastage is too much and the safety aspect is a major concern, the cut is made with the chainsaw at 90 degrees to normal use and I think this would allow less control in the event of kick back. As a colleague tells me 'you do not have accidents with chainsaws, only death'...!

If I could get a regular supply of timber instead of the occaisional bits I would invest in the horizontal band saw.


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## Shultzy (22 Sep 2008)

Neil, as Ray says think again. Trying to re-saw 60mm with a home made jig I think is foolish. Better to cut the boards into 75mm strips then turn 90degs and cut in half. This way most of the stresses will be released and you can re-glue them alternately to produce a more stable board. You could get 4 12mmm thick strips out of each 60mm and glue them to a MDF substrate for the worktop. It would make the oak go a lot further  .


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## jasonB (22 Sep 2008)

I do have a specific rip blade for my Husky but its not really worth you trying to rig something up allowing for a bit of blade wander, some cupping and cleaning up the sawn surface you will be lucky to end up with 20mm boards.

Either split it into three 200mm widths and then resaw with a bandsaw or take it to a sawmill, my local one will happily whizz through it with his big woodmizer in a few seconds and the kerf is only about 2mm 

Jason


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## big soft moose (22 Sep 2008)

I definitely wouldnt try and feed wood into a static saw - for a start how are you going to keep the chainsaw revs up when you arent holding the handle - and please dont say duct tape - the last guy i heard of who tried that severed his wrist and damn nearly bled to death !

mill with a saw by all means but use a chainsaw mill (about 200 notes) and move the chainsaw not the wood. (you need a big saw for this - at least something like a 361 with an 18" bar

also be aware that these are meant for planking up trees - they are not ideal for ripping a 60mm plank in half as you will have significant wastage and be lucky to get two x 20mm

short of taking them to a mill , your best bet would be to find someone who has a woodmizer (looks like a really big bandaw lying on its side) - it would be uneconomic to hire one but if you can find someone who is hiring one in they might be prepared to rip your boards for a small fee.


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## Inspector (23 Sep 2008)

neilyweely

Have you given any thought to substituting a hand powered rip saw instead of the chainsaw? 

What I was thinking of is a frame saw guided parallel to the face you want to cut. Something like the Swedish miter boxes but with the blade turned ninety degrees to the frame. Stand the board and frame up so that gravity does the work of feeding the saw. You could probably get by with a coarse bandsaw blade if you don't want to make one. 

If you hooked it up to a rowing machine you might be able to get a team of rowers to come over to exercise on it. :lol:


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## neilyweely (24 Sep 2008)

tell you the truth folks, what got me started was the 60mm board, but tbh I then moved on a bit in my head and was considering the options open to me with a home -made mill thingy.

I have spoken to a few people who have BIG bandsaws; the local timber-yard has a huge BS, and they have all expressed a concern at sawing a thick lump of oak like this. Even though the saw will 'technically' take it the chances are it will pipper up the blade some. So I am stuck.

I used to be an arboriculturist, or tree surgeon. So I do have some experience with saws, and have seen some accidents too. I know how dangerous they can be.

So, all of you who have expressed concerns - You are, of course, quite right. And I thank you.

I like the idea of the swedish saw thing. Will i find anything if I google it?
The fact remains I would be able to save a LOT of money, over years and years, if I had the means to mill my own wood. 
Could one of the 'clarke', for instance, horizontal BS's be bastardized into being productive in this manner? What sort of cutting capabilities do they have? (Actually I need to ask another question, so will start another thread re; BS motor upgrade)

Folks, you have all been great, as usual. Many thanks for your help so far.

Cheers all,

Neil


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## neilyweely (24 Sep 2008)

So, with re-sawing my oak in mind, I need to know if I can do this - 

I own a startrite Bandit 5. Max depth 8", or thereabouts. I feel it is a little underpowered, tbh, and this is echoed by one of the technicians at startrite, who contacted me recently.

I do have a rather large induction motor, off a lathe, brand new and running nicely. It is a performance power pro lathe, which is made by the Ryobi group (or tti), and is quite good really. It is a lot more powerful, and newer, than the motor fitted, and is already rigged up to run a belt.
I am thinking to fit this motor to the BS, with a little help from my rocket scientist mate. What do you all think?? Should be ok, eh? Anything I shoould be aware of, or is it all fairly straightforward?

I would like to do this, upgrade the fence and feet, and then I feel I would have a really nice bandsaw. Which would surely be much more powerful than the current set-up.

I am being quite demanding, I know, but am in the process of setting up the workshop/business, so I need all the help I can get. When I am done I would be more than grateful, and willing to share my experiences.

Thanks all, again.

Neil


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## Inspector (24 Sep 2008)

neilyweely":dglty57f said:


> I like the idea of the swedish saw thing. Will i find anything if I google it?
> 
> Could one of the 'clarke', for instance, horizontal BS's be bastardized into being productive in this manner? What sort of cutting capabilities do they have?
> 
> Neil



The idea for the Swedish saw thing was just something I dreamed up based on a vague recollection of an illustration of a veneer saw from a book. I was referring to the Noblex(sp?) hand miter saws as an example.

As for adapting or making a saw, here are some links that may give you a few ideas.

http://www.procutportablesawmills.com/

http://www.pennswoods.net/~zigbug/

http://www.linnlumber.com/app/app/www/d ... e/138.html

http://housebun.org/milling/

http://www.norwoodindustries.com/default.aspx

http://www.ripsaw.com/ripsaw.html

http://vieltools.com/prodcat.php?c=MjY=


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## George_N (24 Sep 2008)

For hand resawing you need a frame saw. Your boards are very wide, so the frame saw would need to be huge and it would be tremendously hard work.


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## MikeG. (24 Sep 2008)

Neil,

sorry, I haven't read all of the replies to this, so please ignore any repeats.

Firstly, just don't do the chainsaw thing. Just don't. Don't even think about it. You might regret it for a very long time......

Have you got a band saw or a hand-held circular saw? If so, one approach you might take is to rip 28 or 30mm strips off this piece, giving you strips of wood 30x60x800 if I am reading your sizes right. Prepare the faces and you will be left with lots of strips (maybe 18 or so) around 25x55x800. You can then glue all the thinner edges together to form a laminated worksurface (alternating the cups in the grain if there are any). Or you could use the pieces as frames for panelled doors.

Given that you are cutting small pieces from a really chunky piece, it might be worth taking extra care over acclimatising the timber before you make something from it. Stack it carefully in its final location for quite a few weeks.

Hope this isn't a boring repeat of something someone else has said..!!

Mike


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## neilyweely (25 Sep 2008)

Mike

Not at all mate. Seems you may be spot on, again. I think this may be the way forward, for the moment at least. 

I am a bumpkin, thru and thru. I have access to a lot of timber, in it's most basic form, and would love a way to sort it into useable pieces. My bandsaw (startrite bandit) is underpowered for this kind of wood, and although I do have a selection of circular saws, they all have approx 200mm blades. So, this leaves me with a problem. I could certainly cope with the piece of oak I have, but any more I 'acquire' will have to be milled for me. 

This morning I recieved a dvd from a company called Logosol. They sell a range of timber-jigs for chainsaws, and small mills, which are within my price range. Perhaps this could be a way forward. I am gonna have a good look at them and see. They do look slightly like an accident waiting to happen, but they are sold all over the world, presumably with H+S blessings, so how bad can they be?

Why is this proving to be such a problem, you would think someone else would have been in my position before, and got it sorted. Hhhhmmmpphhh!!

Thanks Mike, and Inspector. And everyone.

Neil


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## MikeG. (25 Sep 2008)

Neil,

I don't suppose you have a tractor? There are plenty of huge circular saws designed for farmers run from the power take-off of tractors.......

Mike


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## George_N (25 Sep 2008)

Alaskan chainsaw mills are designed for planking tree trunks and large logs that have a substantial mass and won't move on you as you make a cut. The "mill" is just a jig that keeps the chainsaw parallel to the top of the log. In that respect they are no more dangerous than any other chainsaw (says he, who has never used one). I believe that they will convert large amounts of timber into sawdust but they can be a cost effective way of planking logs compared with hiring a bandsaw mill. I got a Lee Valley catalogue recently and they have a couple of different sized Alaskan mills, prices starting under $200(US). I reckon if you have access to free logs it could pay for itself very quickly. Of course you do then have to store the planks for drying..a year for each inch of thickness, so you do need the space and the patience.


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## neilyweely (27 Sep 2008)

this is what I am thinking, George. I have access to a LOT of wood (trees) on my mothers land. So I could get my hands on some oak, ash, beech and all sorts of other lovely wood!!! All free!!!

And Mike, tractors and I do not mix too well, long story involving a log splitter and 2 slipped discs. I do not like the things at all, bad juju!!

Mike, I think I am going to try one of these things, the 'timber-jig' by these people. (forgotten their names, but have their card inside). I shall probly end up with it sitting in the back of my dads garage, with all sorts of other bright ideas! If it goes wrong I will be standing WELL back, and all I shall lose is a hundred quid (said very flippantly bearing in mind i do not have a pot to pish in!). It is either that, or I shall try to cut length ways free-hand. I have been told these rip chains are a bit of a gimmick, so am not sure quite what to do yet.

Thanks mate, for all your good advice.


Neil


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## inandout (7 Oct 2008)

I rigged up a chainsaw mill to cut some planks of oak. I laid an aluminium ladder next to the tree trunk and made a height adjustable sled to run up and down the ladder, attached chainsaw to ladder and then cut. It worked fine but don't suppose the health and safety police would approve. It was a slow process and as others have said you will get a lot of waste.


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## ciscoeuk (10 Dec 2008)

you could strip out an old band saw parts and get hold of a 3 hp motor make a frame and replace the saw with purposes built jig and frame

and engineering bandsaw would be ideal for parts and you could stick a petrol driven lawn mower engine as a pwer unit,


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## ciscoeuk (14 Dec 2008)

just to let you all know i have manage to obtain plans for a homebuilt saw mill  

that use parst of a car and old boat trailer

anyone interested??


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## Benchwayze (20 Dec 2008)

I would have a good look at these 'lumps' Neil. I would check if I can get some nice quarter-sawn flecking. If they are 60mm thick, most bandsaws worthy of the name should handle this depth of cut. Having decided how I'd want to cut it, I'd get a pal to help manhandle the planks over my bandsaw. This would get them to manageable sizes, that could be put in stick if they are 'green'. Then I'd have a rest, safe in the knowledge I have all my digits, crack open a can ccasion5: and think about how I can make best use of the figure in the timber. 

Best of Luck Neil. 

PS.. If you have that much timber at your disposal, could you flog a couple of trees to some of the pro's, and buy a nice big bandsaw mate? 

My 351 will cut 8" deep and the last time I used it to convert logs, I salvaged a lovely pile of laburnum. Just by cleaving the logs into radials and planking them on the 351. (All gone now... and the laburnum oysters too!) 


:ho2


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## big soft moose (11 Jan 2009)

George_N":fb4ke41c said:


> Alaskan chainsaw mills are designed for planking tree trunks and large logs that have a substantial mass and won't move on you as you make a cut. The "mill" is just a jig that keeps the chainsaw parallel to the top of the log. In that respect they are no more dangerous than any other chainsaw (says he, who has never used one). I believe that they will convert large amounts of timber into sawdust but they can be a cost effective way of planking logs compared with hiring a bandsaw mill. I got a Lee Valley catalogue recently and they have a couple of different sized Alaskan mills, prices starting under $200(US). I reckon if you have access to free logs it could pay for itself very quickly. Of course you do then have to store the planks for drying..a year for each inch of thickness, so you do need the space and the patience.



thers nothing inherently unsafe about chainsaw use so long as you 

a) treat them with respect
b)know what you are doing
c) wear all the appropriate protective equipment
d) maintain them well
and
e) dont try to use them in ways for which they are not intended.

with this in mind assuming you are a qualified and experienced user with a decent chainsaw and a sharp chain it should be relatively safe (Ie no less so than any other wood work opperation) to use an alaskan mill 

Its something i'm going to look into because it would be a lot easier to plank on site and transport planks than to cut the tree into lumps then take home and mill freehand, however that said i'm a countryside proffesional with years of experience and a range of saws - I routinely use a stihl 361 with 18" bar for storm clearance.

If on the other hand you have never been trained in safe use and your saw is a mculloch bought in B&Q for £50, your chain is blunt because no one has ever taught you to sharpen it, and you didnt buy any protective equipment because , well, it wont happen to you and its expensive, and you are planning to use a home made jig and an aluminium ladder instead of investing in a mill. My advice in this situation would be simple - if you like your fingers and limbs being attached to you then dont !


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## neilyweely (12 Jan 2009)

BSM

Good advice mate, and appreciated. I spent a year in a christian commune working in forestry, where I got my chainsaw licence and all my arb tickets. I also spent some time in guyana doing 'missionary' work with the natives, who thought nothing of climbing a 70ft tree with no rope and standing on the branch they were cutting!!! 

I have a stihl and a husqy, as well as a couple of 'specialist' saws. And I have 9 1/2 fingers and thumbs, 2 arms and 2 legs. And God willing that is how it shall remain. However I do like the idea of using a frame to guide the Chainsaw as I cannot afford, or justify, a mill.

Thanks for your warning though.

Neil

PS - fwiw I do have a McCulloch too!! somewhere.....And kevlar DOES cost the earth!!!


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## TEP (15 Jan 2009)

Mornin' *Neil*.

I have a Logosol Timber Jig and it works great, and is pretty accurate for what I use it for. *BUT* IMO I wouldn't use it for re-sawing 60mm timber, you will lose more than you gain from it, and in all honesty chainsaw milling seasoned timber is really hard on you and on the saw.

I use mine for converting logs to turning blanks/planks. You can cut good 1" boards from a wet log with a reasonable finish, but again this is all starting from the log not re-sawing pre sized timber.


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## Wanlock Dod (27 Jan 2009)

Hi Tam,

I'd be interested to hear a bit more about how you get on with the Timberjig. I would imagine that getting the first flat edge on a log would be quite difficult, although presumably maouevering the log can also be quite difficult. What sort of size of pieces would you be cutting down, I've seen on their website that they say smaller logs are much easier.

Presumably one needs a fairly powerful saw?

Cheers,

Dod


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## TEP (30 Jan 2009)

Hi *Dod*.

Only used the Timberjig twice since purchase, and it worked fine. Had one log of Ash delivered to my house. Set the jig up and cut a couple of lengths. It wasn't a real test as the log was 4' x 14", but it let me have a go. It was a bit fiddly setting up on the small log.

Next was a Sycamore log on the side of a field, 9' x approx 18". Cut the length in half then set up to cut each half into 2" & 4" slabs. Was there for the best part of 5 hours, but if you have access to raw timber I think it is worth it.

My saw is a Stihl 044 70cc with a 25" bar, fitted with a ripping chain. I do have a standard chain but decided to go the route and bought the ripping chain, but I don't know if it makes a lot of difference. I haven't got the experience to tell but it is recommended for end grain cutting.

As to getting the first flat on the log, its quite easy as the timber guide rail is supporting the saw. There is a lot of waste when milling they way they show in the video, but their intentions are to mill planks.

I have been trying to figure out a metal frame which will support the guide rail. I can then roll the log onto the frame and just lower the guide rail and cut the log through and through.

It certainly beats converting timber by hand, I used to have quite a lot of waste when I did that. Now at least I can get measured planks.


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## neilyweely (30 Jan 2009)

> be interested to hear a bit more about how you get on with the Timberjig. I would imagine that getting the first flat edge on a log would be quite difficult, although presumably maouevering the log can also be quite difficult. What sort of size of pieces would you be cutting down, I've seen on their website that they say smaller logs are much easier.



you use a ladder or other flat run to get your first straight cut, fixed firmly to the edge of the log. I haven't actually used one yet, but have now seen them in use and they are great. I wouldn't be able to re-saw 60mm timber, as pointed out, but the amount of times I drive past felled timber that is useable it grates with me, if you know what I mean. I love a freebie, me!!

Anyway, I have got in touch with a local fella who has one, and will be using it soon. I will take plenty of pix, maybe video it, for the forum.

Cheers all

Neil


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## TEP (30 Jan 2009)

Hi Neil.

The ladder idea is for most chainsaw mills fitted with a frame guide. The Timber jig doesn't work like that, it runs on its own guide rail. You construct this rail with 2 lengths of 5" x 1" plank and some brackets that come with the Timber jig. This rail is set then screwed to each end of the log the saw sits in the rail and you cut off the edge plank.

You then unscrew the rail, set it for height and screw it onto the flat face you have just cut. You then take the next cut, which leaves you with 2 flat sides at 90deg to each other.

You remove the guide rail, set the board height on the Timber jig which is then placed over the 90deg angle and you slice away. All I do is slice right through cause all I want is timber for turning blanks. If you want proper planks it is a little more involved, you cut to a 3 sided log so that when you mill you have sized boards coming off. It's not that hard really, just slow.


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## neilyweely (30 Jan 2009)

sounds great. am looking forward to it.

cheers

neil


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## Digit (31 Jan 2009)

PM on the way Neil but have you considered the more traditional method of cleaving the logs?

Roy.


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## neilyweely (1 Feb 2009)

Roy, have looked into it, but to confess I don't know a lot about it. OK, am a good student; lets learn something!! I mean, I have seem incredible architecture ( in Dubrovnik, pre war) with amazing use of timber in incredibly intricate and inventive ways. All this was done, presumably, without a mill? Or was it?

Neil, who is gonna now be up hours looking up old milling techniques!!


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