# Employment



## Anonymous (29 Jul 2006)

Thinking about taking on a member of staff, just interested in other peoples views on who makes the best candidates.

An older person with lots of experience but set in their ways
or
a young person with no experience

advice and personal experiences appreciated


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## Paul Chapman (29 Jul 2006)

You can teach skills but you can't teach attitude - so I would say go for someone with the right attitude :wink: 

Paul


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## Mcluma (29 Jul 2006)

It is all about work attitude and respect, nothing to do about age, rase, male or female

My wife owns a chain of florists, and unfortunately staffing is the biggest headache she has.

So if you choose one, make sure you give them first a 3 months contract.


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## superunknown (29 Jul 2006)

I feel sorry for employers taking on staff, it is a huge gamble. You really don't know what you are going to get. The attitude and the skill of the person is so important, you need a good balance.


I agree with Mcluma you need to start them on a short term contract or a trial period. It needs to work both ways too. My experience so far is its very hit and miss.


I started a new job about 7 weeks ago and I am on a 3 month trial. I am a cabinet maker and have been for 11 years now. I am very pleased with my decision to take the job and so far my employer seems to be very pleased too 




Good luck!


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## Scott (29 Jul 2006)

Mcluma":1lpi3ytz said:


> It is all about work attitude and respect, nothing to do about age, rase, male or female



Agreed! Unfortunately, if the "yoof" of today that I'm occasionally saddled with is anything to go by you might find that respect is sadly lacking, "attitude" is universally present and a work ethic is an unknown concept!

Good luck in your quest!


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## mailee (29 Jul 2006)

I have to agree about the youf of today, most I have found to be lazy and lacking in any respect. Seems most of them would be happier lounging on the dole than doing a good days work. Still there are one or two out there somewhere it is just finding them.


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## Pecker (29 Jul 2006)

I'm lucky as I employ an old friend so i dont have that worry.

Youth are great, but as already said many of them just dont give a damn. Though I have been approached by a couple of local lads which is a good sign as it meant they were intersetd enough to contact me. remember though, that if employing youngsters H&S plays a VERY important role and you need to be VERY aware of current legislation regarding machines etc. especialy PUWER98

A "rival" of mine has just taken on a apprentice and has been horrified at the H&S implications, the lad is not even allowed to use a cordless drill! In addition, in the first year he doesn't even do woodwork at college he does English and maths! - part of Blairs "key skills" campaign.

Remember also that no matter who you employ you MUST have employers liability Insurance - it is a legal responsibility, also that you will have to pay employers N.I on top of his wages. For me that is an extra £15 a week! 

I'm not trying to put you off, don't get me wrong. But it is a BIg step as I have recently found out. My prices have had to increase to cover some of the costs. I worry what will happen if I run out of work - how will I pay Tony? What will Tony do if I'm ill etc. etc Tax is a nightmare though it has got easier. These are all things to be considered.

You may well be better off trying to get somebody say semi skilled/ part retired/ keen diyer for a while to see how things go before you go the whole hog..

Good luck though it can be very helpful and rewarding. Let us know how it goes!

Mark


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## Anonymous (29 Jul 2006)

Thanks for the opinions and implications.

I have worked with youfs with attitude and its a nightmare, this fact really worries me.

Definately a 3 month contract.

With regards to H & S I'm aware of the implications, and all my machines are h & S ok. I think my problems are an open spray area and dust extraction, this will be a big expense to rectify but I really believe I have to take this step sooner or later.
Thanks senior


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## devonwoody (30 Jul 2006)

Well Senior, at least you have a lesser chance of the pregnancy problem in this trade!!!!


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## Scrit (30 Jul 2006)

devonwoody":usa2c4ai said:


> Well Senior, at least you have a lesser chance of the pregnancy problem in this trade!!!!


Maybe so, but paternity leave and leave of absence for childrearing are still a problem for smaller employers

Scrit


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## devonwoody (30 Jul 2006)

OH yeh, I had forgotten about that one.

If I was a young man I would be the latest version of superdad (Cornwall origin  ) and I reckon I would be on permanent paternity leave.

Alf did you ever meet that young man?


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## orangetlh (30 Jul 2006)

well i have to admit i am one of the youfs of today. i work in a workshop with 6 employees. 3 in their 50's and 3 in late teens and early 20's. Ive found with the older employees, they tend to be stuck in their ways about how they work and how they go about things, but are very helpful. The younger guys are a bit of a mix, the one is very keen to help and does exacly as you tell him and understands that he is learning all the time. The other doesn't mind work but thinks he knows it all and doesn't do anything that he thinks is below him. I have more trouble with him than the other 4 put together. So i wouldn't nescecerily tar all youths with the same brush, just pot luck wether or not u get one with the right attitude. unfortunately i cant choose who i work with, i just have to deal with them.


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## lugo35 (30 Jul 2006)

after some of the apprentices i have had to teach god help the wood trades  
had a job to know which end of the hammer to use!!!!!
maybe i told them to use wrong end :wink:


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## Losos (30 Jul 2006)

Senior - As people have said it's a very big step to take on someone & it's an absolute must to have a three month contract, any longer & I believe you'll have problems if it doesn't work.

It's interesting to read the comments on the youth of today  

Here in Czechland (Where I currently reside for a few years) the 'attitude' and 'lazyiness' is all in the over 35 age group (Brainwashed by communism) whereas the under 35's are usually very keen to learn & to provide a good service. Complete opposite of UK. As usual I will add that there are always exceptions (See post above from one young man)


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## cadders75 (31 Jul 2006)

I think the problem with the younger generation ( says a man of 31), is that you tend to be brainwashed in school to think that you should work towards an office job and not get your hands dirty for a living. 

When i was at school all those years ago, :lol: , woodwork and metal work classes were non-existent, the only reason i could do anything practical was because my old man tought me a few basics. 

When i came out of full time education to look for a job i was guided away from being a chippie or a sparky, and i could only find a job in a shoefactory or in an office. 

I would say that there are a lot of people of my age looking to get in to the industry simply because the chance wasnt there when we let school. 

The job isnt anywhere near northampton is it Senior.


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## Pecker (31 Jul 2006)

Cadders, I think you've made a good point there. For many years they seem to have taught it was wrong to get your hands dirty! 

Around here we have the problem that many locals just don't want to work - full stop. Pembrokeshire is one of the poorest regions in Europe and many have lived off benefits. They tend to do "Hobbles" i.e cash in hand jobs whilst still claiming benefit. That alone causes me problems as my prices are always trying to compete with the cash in hand cowboys.

Mark


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## Alf (31 Jul 2006)

Cadders, how right you are. It's my, well _one_ of my  hobby horses, the terrible attitude we have in this country towards the skilled trades. Only the "thickos" should be doing vocational courses apparently. :roll: I also wonder how we expect the yoof to cope with a full working day when they've been used to the ridiculously short school day - seems to me they're letting the little darlings out earlier and earlier. 

Good luck in your search, Senior. Reckon you need to find someone you can get on with as much as anything. 

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (31 Jul 2006)

Good point Cadders. There was an interesting programme on the TV some time ago, where these kids at school were absolutely useless at the conventional academic subjects and were rapidly going downhill. As an experiment they tried them at things like bricklaying and woodwork and they were brilliant. I think they went on to get very good jobs and build successful careers for themselves. Bring back all the old craft subjects at school, that's what I say :wink: 

Paul


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## Paul Chapman (31 Jul 2006)

Alf":ra3mrwj1 said:


> the terrible attitude we have in this country towards the skilled trades. Only the "thickos" should be doing vocational courses apparently. :roll:



Still, Alf, the "thickos" have the last laugh when the superior classes have to pay them ( :shock: How much? :shock: ) to un-block their drains; fix their leaks; cure their sticking doors; replace the dodgy wiring; build them a new kitchen; assemble their flat-pack furniture. Just be a good chap and use the rear entrance - don't want the neighbours to know :wink: And I hope you're not coming in with those muddy boots :shock: 

Paul


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## devonwoody (31 Jul 2006)

I dunno, cos MPs get £75000 per an. plus lovely pensions etc. etc. thickoes dont get that much.


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## sliver (31 Jul 2006)

Hi all,
My two pen'orth. We all tend to generalise as a nation. 'Yoofs are lazy' & 'Nowt like experience'' but over the years (i'm 50 y'know!!) :? I have found a mix of people who don't fit those categories. I have worked with young & old alike & for learning older ones with the right attitde are great. Sadly I have come accross some whom I would NEVER employ. 'little as poss. to get as much money as poss.' I have also met yoofs whose work ethics & attitude have been far & away more superior to the ones who should know better. Am I making sense here?? I know what I am trying to say in my own cumbersome way. That is to treat each as an individual rather than a representation. In short, though I am not an employer, young & old alike, some I would pay a pound a minute, & t'others I wouldn't pay a pound a week. Hope this helps.
Cheers, sliver.


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## devonwoody (31 Jul 2006)

Quite right Silver, 
I got my mortgage when I was 19 years old and it was fully paid for before I was 32.

And I was only paid for what I had done and payment collected.


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## woodbloke (31 Jul 2006)

Senior wrote:



> a young person with no experience



Might be worth a trawl around the colleges for someone on the younger side with some experience, look in the classified ads in F&C ... correct attitude and a willingness to see things your way are paramount in my view, tho' a younger person may bring fresh ideas to your 'shop which you may not have thought about before - Rob


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## sliver (31 Jul 2006)

devonwoody":33vd97va said:


> Quite right Silver,
> I got my mortgage when I was 19 years old and it was fully paid for before I was 32.
> 
> And I was only paid for what I had done and payment collected.



Hi dev, Now come on mate.....13 years to pay off a mortgage??? What on earth were you playing at?? Houses were only 14 quid each back then. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Seriously though John, that was an exellent effort, you must have been proud of yourself the day the last payment was made. Just shows what can be acheived when the right attitude is applied. I know people who are my age & older who never had a job, nor ever intended to. They'll never have what we feel when you go out & buy something with cash you earned for yourself. Don't suppose it'll ever bother them though.

Cheers, sliver. :wink:


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## devonwoody (1 Aug 2006)

Yes Silver your thoughts should become part of school lessons!!!!!!!!!

By the way, I have always considered my retirement also started at 32 years of age :wink: ( I went and bought a taxi plate and used to go out to work when it started raining or something)


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## Pecker (1 Aug 2006)

Paul, It is true that somepeople are very practically minded and can focus well on one subject, say woodwork, or metalwork. It is a real shame they are not encouraged intio the traditional crafts like they once were.

My collegue Tony, was not the most academically bright at school (if he's reading this I'm dead!LOL) but he makes me sick. he can trun his hand to ANYTHING practical. he'll watch someone else do it - even on telly then just go out and do it himself.. very well!

he spent 8 years rebuilding a thatched cottage including rebuilding the very large swimming pool. I always say that exams are great, but if you're willing to get your hands dirty theres no end to what you can do. Personally I would sooner have Tony with bascially no exams, yet fantasitclly practical, then some uni graduate that went thru a "fast track" program and thinks he knows everything. (No offence to any uni guys here).

I'm sure amongst you there are a few people who have found a complete new lease of life thru doing woodwork.

Mark


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## Pecker (1 Aug 2006)

Actually, just thinking, bit ironic isn't it. Here we are going ona about accademic abilities and the youngsters of today...

and just how do you spell Youf????????

:lol: :lol: 
mark


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## devonwoody (1 Aug 2006)

Pecker,

I'm sure you have heard the expression "all brains but no common sense"
:wink:


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## Alf (1 Aug 2006)

Pecker":mh5c3j5k said:


> I always say that exams are great


Crikey :shock: You do?! 

Dunno, I've always thought "youf" with a U was a bit too posh to fit the meaning of the word. Yoof gets more hits on Google including definitions amongst the first 10 which Youf doesn't - can we use Google as a Yoof way of defining which is right? :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Pecker (1 Aug 2006)

Alf, if you've got time to play on goole like that, you're not busy enuf :lol: :lol: 

mark


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## Alf (1 Aug 2006)

Pecker":b2v1f87g said:


> Alf, if you've got time to play on goole like that, you're not busy enuf :lol: :lol:
> 
> mark


Enof? :lol:


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## orangetlh (1 Aug 2006)

I completely agree with Marks comments. Was just wondering what people feel being 'bright' is? Im 22 and a cabinet maker, people i know from school are now leaving uni and the first thing they say to me is what uni did you go to. When i reply i haven't and im a cabinet maker they look down their noses. In my opinion wether your academic or not, if you have a skill or something you are good at then you are bright. Why are you only bright if you can read books and remember information and then regurgitate it. Surely someone with skills in any field is just as bright as someone with academic qualifications, so why the stigma?


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## sliver (1 Aug 2006)

Well said orangetlh,
As I said in my previous post, we tend to generalise too readily. I know I am just as guilty as the next person on this, so it is best that we do treat people as individuals. Not to sound condescending, but with or without qualifications you do seem to me to be an inteligent & thoughtful man. Stay as you are if you are happy with your lot in life. Lots of cash helps to make things easier in life, but it can't make a person happy or contented on it's own. Good luck in your chosen profession.
Cheers, sliver.


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## Paul Chapman (1 Aug 2006)

Fully agree, orangeth. Neither of my kids went to university and they are doing far better than all their school mates who did.

Paul


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## Mcluma (2 Aug 2006)

Paul Chapman":3bmso21a said:


> Fully agree, orangeth. Neither of my kids went to university and they are doing far better than all their school mates who did.
> 
> Paul



Good for you

but I rather have that my kids go to uni (and they will in September  )

The best thing a parent can do for his kids is provide an environment to learn and accumulate as much experience as possible.

And sometimes parents do not have the time or knowledge to do so, and there is were paid education kicks in

I also believe that apprentische ships works very well.

But and now it comes. Kids do not have a clue what they want to do in life. so therefore postpone the decission and increase the knowledge base and grow up a bit more before you make that all so important decission in life what to become.

My sons girlfriend works at a local supermarket, and my wife offered to pay for her education and workplace in one of her shops, but she turned it down because she doesn't want to grow up and have responsibilities :? 

Like i said earlier it is all a mater of personality, some grow up sooner than others


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