# Cutting very small pieces on table saw



## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Good day

Sometimes I need to cut very small pieces for jigs or other things and instead of passing my fingers "very carefully" 2 mm from the blade, I made this simple thingy...

Hope that it will help you too

Regards
niki 

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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)

One of the better methods I have seen suggested.

*But* I feel it important to point out that when cutting very small pieces, no matter the method, they have a tendency to turn in on themselves ( picture 14 ) and the blade will often catch them and throw them out at a very high speed. worse still making multiple cuts and not clearing the pieces away leads to an accumulation and again the likelihood of them catching the blade,*Always be aware*.

Dom


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## devonwoody (15 Aug 2007)

Thanks again Niki, I also have this concern on cutting small pieces like many other here.
I think you have shown a realistic attempt at solving the problem but I also think a helmet/face mask would then be an additional safety requirement (I've got the Triton resperator) because if something does go haywire things could fly about.


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## wizer (15 Aug 2007)

thanks niki, genius as usual

Are chainmail gloves a realistic option for those wanting to keep their digits?


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Thank you so much for your kind words

If I understand correctly, you are concerned about the off-cut pieces that can fly away...

I think that, because I'm cutting small pieces, the off-cuts will never fall at the rear side (or the rear half) of the blade (or upward teeth) but always will remain at the front side of the blade (or the downward teeth).

Another point is, if you noticed, I'm using "high blade" and the downward teeth angle is very steep...maybe, if the blade is set "low", the shallow angle of the downward teeth can catch the off-cut and through it (I'm not sure that it can happen because it never happened to me) but, in any case, I'm standing on the left of the blade (just to take the picture, I was on the right side...btw, they are "live" pictures taken during the actual cut).

Maybe tomorrow (today is a church holiday - no work), I'll make an experiment and push the off-cut pieces (several times) into the blade (with a looong push stick) and see what will happen.

Thanks
niki


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## devonwoody (15 Aug 2007)

I'll make an experiment and push the off-cut pieces (several times) into the blade (with a looong push stick) and see what will happen. 



Niki, do you want to borrow my helmet / mask?

If you do get a trap at the front end (Ive had one) Things really go with a bang.

Take care.


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Hi Devonwoody

Thanks for the offer  I'm going to stand some 1 Meter behind at 45° to the blade...

Usually things are flying forward...as list in my experience...

niki


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## Evergreen (15 Aug 2007)

Niki

Once again, I marvel at your ingenuity. But wouldn't it be much quicker, simpler and safer to use a tenon saw or Japanese pull saw and a bench hook? 

Regards.


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Thank you Evergreen

I want it to be straight and square...don't I 

Sorry but my hand tools skills are very close to zero, so I have to "invent" other methods that will do the job for me...    

Regards
niki


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## DaveL (15 Aug 2007)

WiZeR":34zlekix said:


> Are chainmail gloves a realistic option for those wanting to keep their digits?


Chain mail gloves are used by butchers and sometimes by carvers, I have looked at then in a catalogue, they were only for use as protection for hand powered blade and should not be used with machine tooling. I think with chain mail there is still the risk of it snagging and pulling you into the machine, even if it could withstand the cutting forces present.


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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)

Hi Niki I wasn't criticising your methods because even when cutting a small piece off a longer length there is that risk.

Dom


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Hi Dom

First, you can and it's even good to criticize because sometimes, one cannot see "all the picture" and any one that adds, like you, just helps me and others to see wider picture.

Second, I don't see it as criticism but as an important note.

Thanks
niki


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## DomValente (15 Aug 2007)

Thank you Niki, you're a gentleman.

Dom


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## JFC (15 Aug 2007)

Nice one Niki . Did you name your dog after a push stick by any chance ?


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## Niki (15 Aug 2007)

Thank you JFC

I didn't think about this possibility...

Pusha, in Polish is "Woolen ball", she was born in Poland to my wife's sister (well, not directly) and looked like a woolen ball so she named her Pusha.
at the age of 4 months, my wife took her to Japan and than she moved with us from Japan to Israel and back to Poland...

niki


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## jonny boy (15 Aug 2007)

A very good jig, I like it, just be carefull!!

cheers,
jon.


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## Scrit (15 Aug 2007)

Hi Niki

Trade practice with short pieces is either to cut them from a longer piece which can be safely held and set a deflector to the cut-off side of the saw:






or to cut them on something like a chop of radial arm saw again from a longer piece. On mitre cuts I tend to use an auxilliary fence, a sharp blade and a slow push cut or make a partial cut and finish by hand with a tenon or dovetail saw. I'd rather not try cutting a very small piece on a table saw, or for that matter any other power saw. A Nobex therefore makes some sense

Scrit


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## Niki (16 Aug 2007)

Thank you Jon

Scrit
If I had to cut small pieces from a long piece, I would also use the sled and the rip fence with an auxiliary fence but, I'm talking about cutting small pieces from short piece.

The deflector looks to me as a very good idea although, I don't understand how it works...

About Chop-saw or RAS....I have to buy one....maybe one day...

In any case, the small piece must be held in place and I think that the "stick" method can be easily adopted also to the Chop-saw, RAS or any sled.

Best regard
niki


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## Scrit (16 Aug 2007)

The thing is that when a piece becomes too short to hold firmly (and I don't think your jig is a sure-fire holder) then the safest method is to saw by hand or use a longer piece. POWER SAWS ARE NOT REALLY DESIGNED TO SAW SMALL OFFCUTS SAFELY.

Scrit


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## devonwoody (16 Aug 2007)

I find small pieces a problem particularly as I am working on small boxes these days , my side pieces are around the 100mm length.
Mitre cuts on the SCMS involves a wooden fence which has no escape route for the cut off piece plus clamps all over the place to stop any drift.
Cross cuts on the SCMS short pieces are much easier, again with a false fence and with only a saw line,no escape route , for doing dovetail or rabbet type joints.
Niki, my Axminster SCMS saw with a CMT blade is a third of the price of those other big name saws and with your ingenuity I would look forward to seeing your forthcoming jigs.


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## Niki (16 Aug 2007)

Good day

So, if you like to know what I'm doing lately....Planters for my wife's trees...not exactly fine woodworking, the woods came directly from the sawmill and just belt sanded with #40 and, because I know my wife, I made them on wheels (they are very heavy, I called two neighbors to help me to put the trees inside the boxes.




















Today, I made new sticks and instead of cutting them diagonally, I routed a rabbet. That gives me bigger area to hold down the piece.













And, shallow angle so I don't have to stretch my hand so much 

























Is that small enough...







Now, about the UFO's, I cut many (24, I think) pieces and just left them to do whatever they want and...no, no UFO's... but, I noticed something interesting. 
When the blade turns, it creates kind of air-shield around the blade and the pieces are pushed out of the blade and 2 of them even kind of "glided" gently (the 2 separate pieces).

Maybe it's because I enclosed the blade with the sled on side and the panel on the other side (kind of zero clearance). Maybe if I would not have the "zero clearance", the blade rotation in a more open opening would create "Vacuum" into the opening and added with the dust collector vacuum, it would pulls the pieces toward the blade...how knows...anyway, I could not get them "fly"...






niki


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## devonwoody (17 Aug 2007)

How many teeth on the blade Niki?

I could make some quick boxes with your idea


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## DaveL (17 Aug 2007)

Niki":2y8y3snl said:


> The deflector looks to me as a very good idea although, I don't understand how it works...


Niki,

The deflector would be set up on the table to stop the cut off's moving across the blade, catching on the rising teeth and being thrown back at you.


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## ivan (17 Aug 2007)

Someone sent in a tip to FW re cutting lots of small parts. A vac deflector.

Rig up a vac pipe to carry small parts away. I used 50mm pvc waste for this, and it works a treat; but you have to be careful to properly fix the waste pipe, you don't want a face full of pcv. Oh and empty the vac bin before you start....


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## Niki (17 Aug 2007)

Devonwoody
Right now I'm using the 40 teeth blade...as you could see, I was ripping a lot of pine for the planters.

DaveL
Thank you so much. I new that it's a good idea
Somehow, non of the small pieces past the centre of the blade but, to be on the safe side, it's good to have it.

Ivan
You are correct...In other forum, somebody replied that he is using vac hose to vacuum the small parts

Regards
niki


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