# chest of drawers WIP



## Jacob (1 Mar 2019)

Someone asked what I was up to 8) 
Just doing a prototype. Recycled softwood. 4 narrow but long drawers in a chest. More of an exercise in DTs than anything and I haven't done many for a long time. It'll do for turning chisels and I'll make some better ones with better wood.
Design based on existing old chest.
DTs: Deep cutting gauge lines to work to - deeper means less likelihood of chisel wedging itself back over the line.
Pin holes laid out with dividers, very quick.
Squared with pencil and/or scribe marks
Shallow DT saw cuts started vertical then tilted freehand for the bevels. n.b. essential to have all saw cuts _just_ over the line by as little as possible, to make easy waste removal - no scraping about in corners.
Two or 3 vertical tenon saw cuts in the waste to make it easier to remove. Easier than fiddling with coping saw the modern way.
n.b. Sawing very quick - all done freehand before you'd even finish marking up bevels.
Chiselled out. A lot of them so you work along from one to the other, same stroke on each, no changing chisel, all around one side. Turn over ditto other side. Turn again and next mallet belts are through.
Mark up blind DTs in sides from the bottom piece and the two top rails. 
Sawing carefully to the lines here of course, not freehand. Similar systematic chopping - a bit from each, not one at a time.
This all a bit of a novelty for me I've never done so many at the same time.
Then bingo bottom goes straight in to side!! Very pleased - the boards were a bit bendy but they get held in straight.
Now for the other side.
Then the 4 f***g drawers and I'll be good at DTs!
PS it's very interesting how the design I'm copying avoids differential movement stresses in spite of 2ft wide solid boards - the bare carcase as seen here, plus 3 front rails to come, has the grain all going the same way so no prob. But when you get to the runners in housings they go across the grain. Answer - have them loose fitting. Front end loose dry M&T into front rails, back end one screw.


The bottom:





Two top rails


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## MikeG. (1 Mar 2019)

Excellent, Jacob. Nice to see. That looks like decent timber, too, for "recycled" softwood.

Why the half-blind dovetails? That looks like it would have worked with through DTs. As for cutting freehand without marks.....I'm happy to do that on a narrow item, such as a drawer, but for wide boards like that I would quickly put 2 or 3 pencil lines randomly on the work using a bevel gauge just to give me something to roughly line up with to keep a bit of consistency.


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2019)

It's redwood offcuts, some Swedish unsorted and some old floor boards. I saved the best bits for the drawer fronts.
Neater with blind DTs. They disappear completely under the top, or under the bit of a plinth. I didn't even know they were there in the original until I pulled it apart years ago for repair. Freehand just gets more regular with a bit of practice - you can hardly tell but who cares anyway if they are all slightly different? :lol:
PS I've got stacks of reclaimed wood and this is one way of using it up. It's all finished 20mm or thinner and can mostly be got from old floor boards planed up both sides


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## thetyreman (1 Mar 2019)

nice work jacob, subscribed, look forward to seeing how this turns out, I like the freehand dovetails.


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## doctor Bob (1 Mar 2019)

Very good, nice to see a project.


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## scooby (1 Mar 2019)

Jacob":1dbc4tsy said:


> Two or 3 vertical tenon saw cuts in the waste to make it easier to remove. Easier than fiddling with coping saw the modern way.
> n.b. Sawing very quick - all done freehand before you'd even finish marking up bevels.



Thanks for the write up and the photos. I've never thought of putting additional saw cuts in, sounds like a good idea and something I will try. 
As for sawing free hand bevels, unfortunately my ocd (I'm not being flippant saying that) doesnt allow such a thing (hammer).
Nice work.


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2019)

Thing with this project is a lot of blind DTs, 50 or so by the time I've done the drawers. In the past I've only ever done two drawers at a time so I'm working on how to do it fast and _just_ good enough, which means freehand wherever possible - and being systematic e.g. cut all the left hand sides in one sequence so you don't change angle or stance, then do the right. 
Just doing 2nd side and it's getting faster! Have to see how it fits :roll: .
I reckon that given the components planed up ready I could do all 50 DTs in a good days work. Long time since I last did a good days work though. :lol:


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## Bm101 (1 Mar 2019)

Good to see you do a project Jacob. Look forward to this.


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

Got carcase made up, 24 blind DTs etc all just good enough. 




Thrashing away - I'm wondering about how you should chisel them out. 
I've done them in the past, am doing them now, with trial and error but I feel that back in the day in production mode they would have had it well sorted ; if you had say 5 of these very ordinary chests to do that would be 250 DTs facing you on a Monday morning!
One thing that's certain is that a big chisel is little use - except for making a clean cut at the back of the socket if waste has already been removed, or paring the bottom. 



Small chisel?
Is this where those very common 1/8" mortice chisels were used? Cut out a thin slot either side of the waste and then just blast the rest away with a bigger one? Stone mason style? I've only just thought of it that's what I'm going to try next. :shock: 
Pin holes no prob couldn't be easier but I'd be interested if anybody has any chiselling ideas about DT sockets - hand tools only. 
Am away Tuesday so probably won't post for a week or so


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

Had a bash on a bit of scrap. 1/8" mortice chisel cuts the slots very quickly.




Waste falls out easily




Is this the answer?




I think it is, to two questions; how to chop out sockets quickly and what those mysterious thin mortice chisels are for.
The next question is how precise can you be with the waste removal to minimise the tidying up. Can you mortice chisel the bevel itself instead of doing a vertical cut?
It also answers the question - if saw cuts in the waste help why have I never seen traces of them in old work pulled apart? Answer, they don't help you don't need them!
PS I think saw cuts do help with the pin holes as they go right through quickly and easily and help the waste to drop out loosely.
PPS Also try firmer chisel instead of bevel edge - the added bulk should help break and push out the waste like a light weight mortice chisel. A bevel edge tends to wedge itself in more.


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## thetyreman (3 Mar 2019)

question, why are the faces on the outside?


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

thetyreman":72jf8tnf said:


> question, why are the faces on the outside?


What faces? Do you mean the tails? They are top and bottom. They will be out of sight, under the top itself and below covered by a plinth. n.b. I'm not into exposed DTs particularly, traditionally they are just structural.


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## AndyT (3 Mar 2019)

Really interesting project and exploration of hand techniques. There's plenty of evidence that hand tool working remained viable even after the advent of machinery. We know that the makers were poorly paid and exploited by the middle men. (See Mayhew on "slop-work" in the London furniture trade.) It's fun to try and find out what was quick enough and good enough.

I often flip between methods during a project in an attempt to find out, but as you say, 250 dovetails on a Monday morning would compel you to work efficiently. When I made a set of five dovetailed boxes (dovetailed-pine-boxes-with-captive-bottoms-t108475.html) I found that it really helped if I was using the same tool in the same way, over and over again. So although your idea of the narrow chisel is fascinating I reckon just holding one tool with no swapping over wins. My money's on a half inch firmer with the corners ground off.


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## thetyreman (3 Mar 2019)

Jacob":iu13eqpc said:


> thetyreman":iu13eqpc said:
> 
> 
> > question, why are the faces on the outside?
> ...



I meant as in face/edge mark, the faces here are on the outside from what I'm seeing, just wondered why that is the case?


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

thetyreman":10hf0czf said:


> Jacob":10hf0czf said:
> 
> 
> > thetyreman":10hf0czf said:
> ...


Face and edge marks go on best visible face and edge which with a box/chest wants to be on the outside, with a frame usually on the inside. Though a drawer is a box but would have them inside as that's usually the most seen part. 
Can get confusing so best to keep it simple and consistent e.g. all the joined up boards have face and edge marks on the out/front facing side. The boards are numbered on their bottom edges of face from left to right. Then each one has its place and orientation made absolutely specific. Sounds fussy but if you don't have a system things can go wrong - e.g. two left hand pieces and no right hand etc. :roll: 
Er.. I'll just check my photos to see if I've got it right!
Ooops no I've numbered them from front best edge (which will be front of the finished thing) to back. That's lucky it makes even more sense!


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

AndyT":2osv31jh said:


> ..... I found that it really helped if I was using the same tool in the same way, over and over again.


Yes definitely, though it may take a bit of swapping and changing before you find which tool. That's what's good about a long run - you get the chance to improve so the last ones are coming out faster and better (in theory :roll: )


> So although your idea of the narrow chisel is fascinating I reckon just holding one tool with no swapping over wins. My money's on a half inch firmer with the corners ground off.


I'm on to the 1/2" firmer - just dug one out of a box but I'll persist with the little mortice chisel as well. It seems very fast.


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## MikeG. (3 Mar 2019)

If it helps, I did all the chiseling for these using a 1/4" chisel, whatever the width of the waste I was removing:


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## StraightOffTheArk (3 Mar 2019)

Jacob, nothing constructive to add I'm afraid, just wanted to say it's really good to see a WIP from you which I'm following with interest - I've always learned a lot from your other posts, especially - say it quietly - in regard to sharpening!

Tara a bit,

SOTA


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## Jacob (3 Mar 2019)

Thanks for that SOTA! 
Sharpening is key with a lot of chopping. A quick rub on the oil stone every time you want a little rest or feel things are flagging a bit! Every ten minutes at least.
Chisels - have gone around the houses and hit on the obvious: a blind DT housing is an open ended mortice. Hence best done with a mortice chisel! Why didn't I think of that sooner? :roll: 
That's what I'll be doing with the next lot (drawers). 1/2"
It's also comfortable and convenient - long chisel, big mallet, working at bench height, deep cut gauge lines for visibility, bright light on a stand, standing up relaxed nice and straight etc etc.
PS why mortice chisel didn't occur to me is because I had a vague feeling that eventually the waste would come out as a block, once you've got the technique right. No chance - it has to be chopped to bits.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

I've googled for DT info. All very variable. Most common is very fussy with all the kit in the world and other b...x. Not for me.
There must have been a well established familiar procedure, they couldn't all have faffed about with little bevel gauges and flattening waterstones! 
Best was https://www.core77.com/posts/70642/How- ... ls-By-Hand
but still no mention of production line chopping out, which is the critical thing in terms of speed and productivity. 
Am off on other project will be back sometime later for my next steps.


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## Sheffield Tony (4 Mar 2019)

Interesting to see thoughts on hand work methods that could be done quickly. There was some study of hand cut dovetails in _Mortise and Tenon_ which showed overcut half blind dovetails, which I see you haven't gone for, although I think you mentioned it in the past.

To hand saw the tails at a reasonably consistent angle, would it be easier to clamp the board at an angle in the vice and saw straight down one side of each tail, adjust the board angle and do the other side of the tails ? It is easier for most folk to judge a vertical cut than a consistent angle. Accepting that the consistency is mostly aesthetic.


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## AndyT (4 Mar 2019)

That review on Core77 of Joel Moskvich's class on dovetails is worth a look. In my opinion, Joel's someone worth paying attention to - he's interested in old ways of working and the efficiency of hand tool working.

For his own, briefer account, have a look at his own blog here

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... ling+Skill

and here

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/sto ... ving+Waste

I recommend subscribing to his blog in your RSS feed reader of choice.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

Sheffield Tony":11l5mf18 said:


> Interesting to see thoughts on hand work methods that could be done quickly. There was some study of hand cut dovetails in _Mortise and Tenon_ which showed overcut half blind dovetails, which I see you haven't gone for, although I think you mentioned it in the past.


They are all overcut very slightly, or supposed to be. It only needs a 0.5mm past the line to make cleaning out the corners easy. On old work it's often highly visible with saw cuts well past the line - DTs weren't intended to be looked at and admired!


> To hand saw the tails at a reasonably consistent angle, would it be easier to clamp the board at an angle in the vice and saw straight down one side of each tail, adjust the board angle and do the other side of the tails ? It is easier for most folk to judge a vertical cut than a consistent angle. Accepting that the consistency is mostly aesthetic.


No prob eyeballing after a few goes. I haven't checked back with a protractor but they look good enough for me. Luckily I don't particularly accept that consistency is aesthetic!


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## xy mosian (4 Mar 2019)

AndyT":3oh0jebi said:


> That review on Core77 of Joel Moskvich's class on dovetails is worth a look. In my opinion, Joel's someone worth paying attention to - he's interested in old ways of working and the efficiency of hand tool working.
> 
> For his own, briefer account, have a look at his own blog here
> 
> ...



I like Joel's thoughts about slim pins. However I notice that he is using vertical saw cuts to help with waste clearance between tails. I do not remember if I was taught this, in the '60s, but I have always angled saw cuts across the waste to leave a small triangle to be chiselled out. I do not cut many dovetails but cuts made in that seem to help.
xy


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## MikeG. (4 Mar 2019)

Jacob":38l4hvxl said:


> ......... DTs weren't intended to be looked at and admired!........



Generally true, but not universally true. Not all furniture was "country" furniture.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

xy mosian":352igucr said:


> ....
> I like Joel's thoughts about slim pins. However I notice that he is using vertical saw cuts to help with waste clearance between tails......


Yes definitely. 
Freehand single kerf DTs (so called "London pattern" for no good reason) probably the easiest and fastest. You don't bother marking up for pin holes at all but just do single vertical cut first, as near as you can judge the right spacing, then start the cuts for the bevels with the saw in the top of the kerf already there. Over cut the line by a fraction and the waste pops out with just one mallet/chisel stroke each side. Though you then have a bigger socket to excavate.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

MikeG.":3zu6gah7 said:


> Jacob":3zu6gah7 said:
> 
> 
> > ......... DTs weren't intended to be looked at and admired!........
> ...


Technique the same but just more careful.
I always thing "country" furniture is a misnomer - they made cheaper furniture in the towns too. Sheraton, Hepplewhite, Chippendale were all country furniture makers until they moved to London where the money was, and "fine" furniture was made all over the place


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## MikeG. (4 Mar 2019)

Jacob":prdsbwbg said:


> MikeG.":prdsbwbg said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":prdsbwbg said:
> ...



Indeed. "Country" was a category, rather than a location.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

MikeG.":1oaee3q0 said:


> Jacob":1oaee3q0 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeG.":1oaee3q0 said:
> ...


To be honest I'm more interested in "country" than the posh stuff. It's all made to a budget, high or low, but the low end stuff is often ingenious in the way corners are cut (or not!) and has more in common with the modern movement - plain, simple, utilitarian, optimum use of materials etc


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## MikeG. (4 Mar 2019)

Jacob":18ojtamd said:


> ........To be honest I'm more interested in "country" than the posh stuff. It's all made to a budget, high or low, but the low end stuff is often ingenious in the way corners are cut (or not!) and has more in common with the modern movement - plain, simple, utilitarian, optimum use of materials etc



Yep. Me too. Tells you more about social history than the fancy stuff ever does. In the same way I am much more interested in country cottages, farms, ancient industrial buildings, and agricultural outbuildings than I am in stately homes.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

MikeG.":1i3igxyd said:


> Jacob":1i3igxyd said:
> 
> 
> > ........To be honest I'm more interested in "country" than the posh stuff. It's all made to a budget, high or low, but the low end stuff is often ingenious in the way corners are cut (or not!) and has more in common with the modern movement - plain, simple, utilitarian, optimum use of materials etc
> ...


And you can see what they've been up to - pit saw or adze marks on the backs of boards, over cut and irregular DTs where they've been in a hurry, faint plane marks even on the best faces, gauge and pencil marks, all interesting stuff!
And repairs - my favourite are the very surgical bits of wrought iron formed into purpose made brackets etc around breaks. Sometimes finely feathered off so you would hardly notice they were there.


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## toolsntat (4 Mar 2019)

For speed without finess the use of extended saw kerfs could be considered as in this study of John Head's workshop circa 1735/1736. It does look very unsightly but the aim was to give a strong efficient joint without interference to the look of the drawer front. Unless the drawer was pulled out it would largely go unnoticed. 
https://cstorb.wordpress.com/2018/10/22 ... h-drawers/
Cheers Andy


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

Interesting free DT shapes. I've seen over cuts but never as much as that! Either way, pin holes or sockets, it makes it easier to remove waste. 
Nailed on bottoms a good idea too. No messing about and plenty of surface area to wear. I've got an old Welsh table with an oak drawer made like that but nailed all round - no DTs at all. It's stronger - the weight of the contents is taken direct to the runners and not via a tapered edge narrowly inserted into a slot or slip.
I do like stuff like that it's like a breath of fresh air compared to some over fussy and over perfect work.


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## Sheffield Tony (4 Mar 2019)

toolsntat":2zbuz6lt said:


> For speed without finess the use of extended saw kerfs could be considered as in this study of John Head's workshop circa 1735/1736. It does look very unsightly but the aim was to give a strong efficient joint without interference to the look of the drawer front. Unless the drawer was pulled out it would largely go unnoticed.
> https://cstorb.wordpress.com/2018/10/22 ... h-drawers/



That is what I was meaning by overcut half blind dovetails in my earlier post. I thought Jacob might try that way. It is ugly though.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2019)

Sheffield Tony":35u2m5u4 said:


> toolsntat":35u2m5u4 said:
> 
> 
> > For speed without finess the use of extended saw kerfs could be considered as in this study of John Head's workshop circa 1735/1736. It does look very unsightly but the aim was to give a strong efficient joint without interference to the look of the drawer front. Unless the drawer was pulled out it would largely go unnoticed.
> ...


Once the drawer is full of underpants and T shirts you wouldn't notice. Do you look at the sides of the drawer every time you open one? :lol:


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## memzey (21 Mar 2019)

Any progress to share on this one Jacob? Would be good to see how it’s coming together.


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## Jacob (21 Mar 2019)

Been away for a fortnight. Back to the workshop shortly.


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## Jacob (28 Apr 2019)

Getting speedier! Believe it or not!
Missed a lot out - it's more work doing forum than the actual woodwork! Hoping to get it all on my new website one day so it's good practice.
Target is “to be as fast as possible and consistently just good enough”. This means there is scope for improvement - in fact it should come automatically with practice.
Pins holes all cut freehand. No need for angle markers, bevel etc. Could be spaced out with dividers if you want to be very neat. No need for coping saw - as you chisel any waste jammed in the hole you just poke out when the cut is through. Larger holes leave a bigger waste piece sticking out - tap it back in and it falls out. Marking up for pin holes requires some thought - the lowest tail needs to cover the slot in the front piece but the details are different at the back, which ends on top of the bottom board and is usually cut shorter than the sides so it doesn’t get snagged if the drawer is pulled right out.
DTs freehand but all other marking out must be spot on. Face and edge marks so that you get the pieces orientated the right way around.
Shoulder lines with cutting gauge as all across the grain. Two needed as fronts are usually thicker than backs. Just yer ordinary wooden ones - a pleasure to use and often dirt cheap on eBay. The line must be fairly deep so that you can actually just drop your chisel in (and feel it) for the last chisel cut. This ensures a clean cut visible edge in a straight line, even if the face of the cut is undercut or has spelched out - as it does with soft pine.

*Transferring marks:*
Bright light needed.
Line up edge of end board in vice with nice piece of MDF or anything:





THEN - the magic trick - shift the MDF back a touch to show a dark shadow line:




Then lay side board on (make sure it’s the right one and right way around - check the marks). and adjust to make the shadow line just disappear.








Then mark with a little squared off craft knife - just pressed in - no scoring/slicing etc. Can be done with the side piece just held down with hand pressure, but the slightest twitch and you are off line, so I devised an extremely simple hold down - a coach bolt through the bench top and a short beam with a slot to slide on to the bolt. The longer/heavier the beam the greater the holding power, or just add a weight at the end. I save lead scraps and melt them in empty baked bean tins for general purpose weights.








Holding set-up takes seconds and means you can tap the marking chisel/knife with a light hammer for a clear mark, without it dislodging the holding set-up.
The beam can be left in place or slid off the bolt.





The marks! Now to be sawn freehand but keeping just to the side of the mark




Going OK so far and large numbers of DTs are becoming much less of a tedious challenge.
Target - all 150 or so DTs in one day. Should be possible








PS am particular pleased with the hold down. Short of having something pneumatic with a push button I can't imagine anything simpler or easier to use. It's a bit like a shave horse holding but works just by weight. Could have a cord and pedal for more pressure on other jobs?
PPS the little hammer is for the marker and also for micro adjusting the boards' positions when held in the vice and hold down.
NB ALL the saw cuts must to be over the line by a gnats - it makes it much easier to chisel out the waste. If you are careful it can be invisible


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2019)

Instead of hogging Derek's thread I've moved this lot here instead:


Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> ...... The clamping method could not be easier.


Easier clamping method below


> The most important quality in any work - especially as we get older - is not just working to the lines ... it is being able to see the bloody lines! This is a big factor for me here. The reason I can rout so close to the lines is that the method is geared towards visibility. Any bloody fool can work to a line ... but us old farts cannot always tell where they are!


Well yes. I need to get close up, without specs, even varifocals not good enough. Luckily I've got good near sight in one eye.

Fact of life - this simple chisel chop is near impossible until the piece is firmly held down, then it's quite easy. Holding vertically in a vice wouldn't do it it'd be too springy - it has to be held down to something solid.








Sharpening has to be done every few minutes. Leave it too long and it takes much longer. Oil stone, oil, magnet to remove swarf, 3m diapad to freshen stone, strop for a bit of a polish, oily rag




Chopping board. MDF. Stop fixed underneath to bear against back beam of bench




Movable stop on top (drill more holes for change of position)




The whole set up. Work piece in place. Big enough to hold the whole side of a chest o drawers so you could do all the DTs on one end in one sitting. Clamp beam slots (removable) on to bolt through bench at right hand end, weighted at left hand end by two bean tins with lead scraps melted in, and a piece of string. 
Quick release is the little piece of wood under the beam. Turn it vertical and it lifts the beam and you can take out the workpiece. Turn it back and it returns to the same setting. Change setting by turning the nut - fingers if not loaded, spanner otherwise.















Vice is still free. Used here to mark up worpiece direct i.e. not from drawer side pin holes as this is just a demo. The ideal tool - a very thin chisel end craft knife. Little tap with hammer. Thin enough to go into single kerf tiny pinholes. Two cutting gauges - stay set throughout the job.




Scribing lines




First cut - just a tap in the line to deepen it. Good reason for this - you want the waste to drop out neatly from the line on this first cut then you don't have to touch it again. The rest of the waste will follow pretty well but you can clean it up if necessary without having to rework to the line itself.

















PS - these 4 photos above were my eureka moment on how to cut DT sockets. :lol: 
NB just like cutting mortices which I already knew. :roll: 

Then clean out corners with 10 and 4mm bevel edge chisels








Tidy up




At this point you can trial fit the side piece - no need to remove the workpiece yet, adjustments made in situ. One I did earlier:




Release workpiece with quick flip of the wrist








The whole set up








With seat and lamp




PS just noticed I forgot to do any saw cuts. Didn't miss them! Learn something new every day!
The chisel was a little nub end of a 1" firmer. Firmer better for wedging out the waste, like a mortice chisel. Bevel edge only for when you need to get into corners. 
Short chisel handy if you are working from a sitting position. If too difficult (Jarrah?) a narrower chisel would be better - a mortice chisel even.
PPS for me the point of this set up is that it is easier and faster than my other ad hoc earlier set ups. This means you have more time to achieve perfection if that's what you want, though 'just good enough' is good enough for me as a rule.
You could use a router by setting the clamp beam at the right spacing to guide the router. I might try that next time, especially for multiple blind DTs along a chest side, but I wanted to get up to speed with hand tools only.


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2019)

Forgot to say - a major point of the beam clamp thing is that you could hold down and do the sides of a chest like these below, in one bash - one clamping set up, turn once end to end but otherwise all started and finished in one sitting. Coud G clamp instead of weights as the quick release not needed so much - quite a long time spent doing one edge at a time.
NB I didn't do these with it as I hadn't invented it at that point!
Would also be perfect for routing with the edge of the clamp as straightedge guide for the router.


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## Jacob (22 Aug 2019)

Tried the cutting and splitting method. On the face of it it should be efficient but I don't think it is. Took some thought to find out why:
1. Chopping in to the wood at the back of the socket needs much more force for the same depth of cut, compared to chopping at the face, where the waste just falls away, as in photo





2 Moving from chop to split is a change of position (there's a lot of these to do so that's a lot of changes)
3 Splitting somewhat unpredictable and untidy, needs more cleaning up.
So I'm happy with all chopping, no splitting, no saw cuts.
Not surprisng really - you get something similar with morticing. There's talk of chopping, splitting, levering, waste removal. But in fact most efficient is just to chop vertically, fast and furious but in little steps. The waste removes itself and nothing needs levering - except for the finishing details of a blind mortice. I've done alot of morticing by hand so I know this very well. DT sockets very similar so I'm back on familiar territory!

So in brief; 
1 chopping out with a firmer chisel is fast and neat as long as you do it mortice chisel stile i.e. cross grain, each cut is a thin slice down the face of the previous cut. But you have to do a quick hone at frequent intervals, and quick polish on a strop. Has to be freehand- no messing about with tedious modern sharpening methods.
2 The beam hold-down speeds things up as it is very easy to use and you could even do a whole chest side with it in one sitting. Could also guide a router if set up carefully.
3 Sawing necessary for pin holes only - easy done freehand and then all marks taken from them. 
4 Coping saw not necessary. I've always thought this was improbable anyway - I just couldn't imagine those horny-handed old chaps fiddling with a little coping saw when they have shiny chisels and massive mallets to hand. :lol: 
5 Craft knife chisel is perfect for marking through pin holes. Thin enough to locate in saw kerf alone.
6 Theres a lot of work to be done so it has to be sustainable i.e. comfortable, repeatable, well lit, with as little fiddling about as possible. From a personal point of view I feel I've turned mass DT ing from a tedious slightly fraught task into something easy and relaxing!
PS Another afterthought - _sawing_ sides of DT sockets seems pointless but I know from looking that it was extensively done. Maybe they sawed so precisely that the sides would not need any cleaning up, or maybe they did sockets first and the saw kerfs would be definitive? Another trial and error line of enquiry to follow!


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## Jacob (9 Oct 2019)

Finished object.
I wanted some long drawers for turning chisels but turned it into a trad furniture making exercise. All the details are totally traditional and nearly all the wood is recycled (floor boards etc). Top was IKEA shelf lengths saved from firewood heap.
Turned out OK, a few hiccups, am now very confident about hand DTs which is the big issue. Turning improving too. 
Big learning curve, mostly rubbish wood.


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## Jacob (9 Oct 2019)

See more holdfast details here. The most useful thing to come out of this little project and will be getting a lot of use
holdfasts-types-and-uses-t119565.html


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## doctor Bob (9 Oct 2019)

WIP is very interesting, especially a few old methods. Thank for posting


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## John15 (10 Oct 2019)

Many thanks Jacob for posting this WIP. Very interesting to see how a mixture of very old and battered tools can produce such a nice piece of furniture.

John


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## Jacob (10 Oct 2019)

John15":2px8b1y9 said:


> Many thanks Jacob for posting this WIP. Very interesting to see how a mixture of very old and battered tools can produce such a nice piece of furniture.
> 
> John


Thanks for that but I wasn't aware that my tools looked old and battered - I thought they looked normal! :lol: 
They certainly don't look new, but a few _were_ new some years ago!
Do you mean that short firmer chisel? It's ideal for chopping out dovetail sockets. This is a very repetitive operation - there are a 100 or more in that little chest. A longer chisel means more movement, multiplied many times.
I doubt the newness of tools has ever improved anybodies woodwork, except when they fill a gap of course. 
If anything, the opposite - old 2nd hand tools are often from the era when hand woodwork was a major part of the industry, not just a hobby, when people, including tool makers, knew what they were doing!
PS that reminds me - part of the reason for this project was to find out how it is possible to do lots of DTs easily with minimal tools. I now know! A combination of freehand (essential), work holding, sitting down, ergonomics etc).
Don't know if this was quite how they were done in the old days but I wouldn't be surprised.


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