# Old Planes (Wooden)



## Harbo (11 Sep 2007)

I had a closer look at my old moulding planes:- 
2 were by "Varvell & Son" with "York" underneath but on the opposite end was finely stamped "3 GROYSE"? (Both different profile)
One was by "John Cox" with "Warranted" underneath and on the opposite end, "3" above an "8"? 
The last one is stamped "A Mathieson & Son, Glasgow" with "3/8" on the other end. 

I am guessing that the 3 and 8 is a size - of what? But what does "3 GROYES" mean - looks too fine a stamp to be somebody's name? :? 

Rod


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## Martin Cash (12 Sep 2007)

Rod wrote:
_...I am guessing that the 3 and 8 is a size - of what? But what does "3 GROYES" mean - looks too fine a stamp to be somebody's name? _

I have several wooden planes with different owners' stamps on them.
They are indeed fine, and look very professional.
I am guessing that in an age of many wooden tools, where one craftsman may have numerous moulding planes, it was common for him to have had his own stamp made to identify his tools.
So Groyes might have been the craftsman's name. As for the "3" perhaps it was his identifying mark for that plane, or else he was Groyes the third, having followed his father and grandfather.
Of course all this could be conjecture and totally wrong.
If you can post a picture it might help.
Regards
MC


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## Jake (12 Sep 2007)

Maybe it's a B with the vertical line missing, or faint.


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## Wiley Horne (12 Sep 2007)

Hello Rod,

I had a very nice Varvill & Sons, Ebor works, dado, that I recently put up for a benefit auction on Woodcentral. Fellow got an excellent dado plane. Anyway, that plane not only had the Varvill marks, including the factory, but also it had the tool dealer's name and location stamped into one of the ends (I forget which). It may be that the Groyse mark on yours is the tool dealer who sold the plane to the user.

Wiley


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## Harbo (13 Sep 2007)

Here are some photos:

Mathieson with 3 over 8 and a 1 and a small 6 (& owners name)











Varvill with 3 and Groyse:










John Cox with 3 over 8:









Rod


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## Alf (18 Sep 2007)

Rod, with much reference to the 3rd Edition of British Planemakers, we'll have a go:



Last year said:


> Alexander Mathieson & Son (Ltd), they were one of the the most prolific makers, Alexander starting the firm in 1822 (later claimed 1792 simply because they'd bought up John Manners who had indeed started then - cunning devils!) and continuing until the 60s when Record bought them up - although apparently plane making ceased during WW2. At various times they had works in Glasgow, Edinburgh (taking over J & W Stewart), Dundee (J Dryburgh) and Liverpool. There's also an Aberdeen mark listed.


That mark seems to be like one shown as being used between 1855 and 1870 by which time they were at the Saracen Tool Works, 11 (&13) East Campbell Street.

I believe it's the (hammered) grooving half of a tongue and groove pair, unless it's a drawer or drawer bottom plane for grooving the sides of drawers - but I frequently get in a pickle with wooden planes.

Next, Varvill & Son, 1829-1840, 17 Micklegate, York. Lot of Varvills, lot of planes made by them in various guises. Looks to be a tongue and groove pair (see disclaimer above!). The 3 is presumably a reference to the size - could it be 3/8"? Groyse (or Groves? Maybe it's just the pic) could still be an owner stamp despite the neatness. Not all of them hammered their ruddy names all over everything like the so-and-so who's tools I'm going through at the moment... #-o

Finally John Cox, and the profile has me stumped to be honest, but that doesn't mean anything. That very mark is shown and says likely to date from after 1914, so I'll skip the detail from 1883 until then:
Cox, John, Brimingham. 233 Bradford St 1908-1912> (i.e. beyond then is likely but no firm evidence found) 
220 Bradford St 1921, then 
Cox, Frank, 220 Bradford St 1921-1931. Sez:


> John Cox was one of the later proprietors of Cox & Luckman. Although he was entered in the directories, he did not appear to have made many planes on his own account.


Under Cox & Luckman (1839-1914) sez John & Frank Cox probably continued to use the C&L mark after 1914, hence not many John Cox ones about I assume.

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (18 Sep 2007)

My guess is the John Cox was a center bead or some such--it looks as if the boxing is missing. A look at the iron would tell (probably).

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (18 Sep 2007)

#-o Mike, I think you have it. Never occurred to me but it explains all. Tsk, never seen a moulding plane with _all_ its boxing gone before; how sad.

Cheers, Alf


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## Harbo (18 Sep 2007)

Alf (and Mike) thanks for the info. - I am away from home at the moment - I will have another look at them in detail when I get back.

Thanks

Rod


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## Cubby (8 Mar 2015)

I have a Varvill and son York E moncaster PLough plane it has a bit of wood worm which I am going to treat it for very very soon but it seems to be in useable condition  I would really like to work out WHEN it was made that would be awesome


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## AndyT (8 Mar 2015)

Cubby":3pjmqx37 said:


> I have a Varvill and son York E moncaster PLough plane it has a bit of wood worm which I am going to treat it for very very soon but it seems to be in useable condition  I would really like to work out WHEN it was made that would be awesome



Hi Cubby

I expect you found this old thread by searching for Varvill and Son. 

Do check carefully whether your plough is Varvill and Son or Son*s*. (I expect E Moncaster is an owner's mark; most woodworkers marked their tools as a precaution against theft. You can often find old tools showing several successive owners.)


Repeating the info which Alf gave briefly in the old thread, Varvill & *Son* were in business from 1829 to 1840 - though the later firm of Varvill and *Sons* traded longer - from some time before 1873 through to 1904. (However, there would have been later-made planes marked with the Varvill name - trade marks outlived people. )

There is some more detailed information on the history of plane making in York that has recently been put online. It was originally published in the Journal of the Tools and Trades History Society. Go here: http://www.taths.org.uk/resources/downloads/journals and download Journal no 3. In it you can read more about the various members of the Varvill family and how York was a major centre of plane making. 

The TATHS site also has some notes on plane conservation / cleaning etc which you might find useful.


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