# Hand Drills - The Slope with a Hole!



## jimi43 (23 Sep 2011)

Ok...I blame you lot! :wink: 

I was ok with planes...even infills...my PayPal account took the occasional battering but at least I was focussed! :lol: 

Then along came the threads and visits from Douglas sporting various examples of ancient engineering designed to make a hole...

I wouldn't mind...but I have quite a few modern methods of making holes so why oh why when I am idling away the wee hours in >Collectibles>Tools...did I get so tempted...?

Well...it's only three so far...one was a bootfair find and these two were bought as I only wanted one...but they came together as one lot...mmmmm..

First this huge twin speed job...







Missing a front handle (don't they all go missing?)...but mechanically sound....






No maker's mark....anyone guess?

But the real reason I bought this lot was for this one....






Ever since I saw the recent thread (which I cannot now locate!)...where it's sister was featured.

The canny method of gear change is simple mechanical poetry! And it works!






The only markings on it are CC 10....so does this mean it makes dyslexic big boys cry? :mrgreen: 

(reaches for coat!)

It has the recommended keyed chuck...a Jacob 33B






So...now all I have to do is make a few handles and dig through me chuck key drawer!

I do think this slope will stop soon....it will...won't it!?  

More later when the restorations are done!

Jim


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## adidat (23 Sep 2011)

the second one is a great design what a tool :tool:

im sure with your turning skills a matching handle wouldnt be a problem

adidat

p.s postie been yet?


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## adidat (23 Sep 2011)

(homer) (homer) (homer) (homer) (homer) (homer) (homer) (homer) 

just saw your second thread

adidat


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## jimi43 (23 Sep 2011)

adidat":1tf0gv2w said:


> the second one is a great design what a tool :tool:
> 
> im sure with your turning skills a matching handle wouldnt be a problem
> 
> ...



It is indeed Chris...

And I forgot to say...the handle has a ratchet....you take the screw out of the arm holding it to the disc and it goes forward but ratchets backwards....the spring and pawl are in the little disc in the middle!

Wonderful stuff!

Jim


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## Scouse (23 Sep 2011)

jimi43":1e5tlir6 said:


> Ok...I blame you lot! :wink:
> 
> Then along came the threads and visits from Douglas sporting various examples of ancient engineering designed to make a hole...



Glad to see Douglas is shouldering the blame for the rest of us... :wink: 

I saw those two on everyone's favourite website, and I too was reminded of the missing thread; it is an interesting drill for sure. 

Sadly space and a wife prohibit anymore eggbeaters until I can come up with a good excuse.

Still, it is strangely gratifying to see you tumble down a new slope, grasping desperately for a scapegoat, after my summer slope of bootfairs, robbing me of my Sunday lie-in, for which I hold you and your various 'threads-of-fab-tools-for-no-money' responsible! :wink: :mrgreen: 

El.


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## Alf (23 Sep 2011)

jimi43":33khgguy said:


> Missing a front handle (don't they all go missing?)


That's what everyone says - oddly I seem to have an uncanny knack of virtually always getting the side handle too. Why the tool gods should bless me with this gift, I have no idea. I'd rather find Stanley #1s under every rock, given the choice... 

Anyway, very little hope left for you now, Jim. Welcome to this particular branch of the Slope, and see you at the bottom.


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## AndyT (23 Sep 2011)

Good on you Jimi!

It was my thread here that planted the seed - it's nice to see it blossom so quickly!

Now that mine is back in good order I have tried it out on various things and found that it works really well - the range of gearing is a real advantage, but it's not as clumsy and heavy as the ordinary sort with cast bevel gears. Plus it's not so liable to grab your skin or clothes and do a goffering iron effect on it!

But I'm really pleased that you found the ratchet. I tracked down a patent showing the ratchet, but decided that mine didn't have one. The screw holding the handle has been bashed down like a rivet on mine, but I shall now have a go at freeing it.

This is how it works:






And one more bit of good news: I know where there is another one for sale!


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## AndyT (23 Sep 2011)

Jimi 

Turning to your other acquisition for a moment, I wonder if it's a Record 144?

The only picture I can find is this dodgy one from the 1935 Buck and Hickman catalogue:






which does have a similar oval loop in the casting by the side handle. The chuck in the picture is different, but I think it shows the 3-jaw option, whereas yours has a 2-jaw, for square shanked bits.

Someone here must have a proper Record catalogue; on-line, all I can find is extracts with pictures of "planes" (whatever they are!) leaving out the interesting drills!

[On second thoughts - maybe the orange paint is the best clue - and it's a Chapman, before they were bought by Stanley in the 1930s. Or a Stanley that had a sticker that came unstuck.]


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## AndyT (23 Sep 2011)

Forget that last post - the handle attachment is wrong. 
I should have looked down the page a bit:


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## jimi43 (24 Sep 2011)

WOW! Thanks for the comments and info guys and gals...this is certainly a slope that could become most dangerous...I think I will be ok if I don't let Douglas send me over Miller's Falls... :mrgreen: 

I suppose I will be ok if I take a pilot hole with me! :roll: 

I think I will restore fully the multi-hole one Andy...your patent pictures have inspired me to try the cold Japanning technique and this is an ideal candidate. Mechanically it is so simple yet elegant. I want to make it look great and will brush plain metal finish for the rest of it.

Will take some WIP pictures when I do.

So you think this is a Chapman drill?

Jim


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## AndyT (24 Sep 2011)

jimi43":pjpyblik said:


> WOW! Thanks for the comments and info guys and gals...this is certainly a slope that could become most dangerous...I think I will be ok if I don't let Douglas send me over Miller's Falls... :mrgreen:
> 
> I suppose I will be ok if I take a pilot hole with me! :roll:
> 
> ...



I shall watch the progress with interest!

As for my guess at a Chapman ID - teak handles must be a pretty rare thing - what does yours have?


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## jimi43 (24 Sep 2011)

The handle seems too light for walnut (weight wise)....but it might be...it's not beech and it is fair covered in gunk so will clean all that off and let you know.

I'm putting that one to one side first though...I want to get the HoleMonster working first.

Cheers mate

Jim


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## jimi43 (24 Sep 2011)

I've been doing some research on the "other" drill and I think it is this one:






Millers Falls Drills

(photos and link from Old Tool Heaven)

There are no markings on the handle...but then the 1915 photo of the No.190 shows no markings either...

What do you guys and gals think?

Jimi


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## AndyT (24 Sep 2011)

I see what you mean. The MF catalogue text says Red rather than Orange, but that's not decisive. 
It's a pity there's no picture from the other side in either catalogue, as I think your drill's handle adjuster is unusual and distinctive - I'm assuming that you can slide the handle along and secure it to give any effective length you choose.

Whatever the answer is, I get the impression that a handful of manufacturers took a very close interest in the designs that their rivals launched, and were quick to catch up with a closely matching equivalent, That little loop on the bottom of the casting is not as distinctive as I first thought!


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## jimi43 (24 Sep 2011)

I think it is a faded red...rather than the orange it appears to be in the photo...also there's 

THIS AUCTION

Not that this is definitive but it got me started on that road....

...and yes...the handle does adjust in and out by clamping with the screw.

Jim


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## jimi43 (24 Sep 2011)

Oops! That'll teach me to read my PMs before I post!  

Great minds think alike eh Andy!!! :wink: :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## Vann (25 Sep 2011)

Yeah it sure is another greasy slope.

I bought this at a tool auction ten years ago (I went in the hope of picking up a Stanley #45). Thought it might come in handy in a power cut.


It's a Millers Falls No.12 (says so on the chuck). Dates from 1915 to 1925. The crank handle and arm look to be replacement parts.

Then last year I picked up this Stanley 905 in a bunch of planes and other tools.



At the beginning of the month I won this Millers Falls No.118 (shown thrown together for this photo while half way through a de-rust and tart-up). From the period 1931 - 1957. No side handle and the crank handle needs replacement. It's a very smooth running machine!



And last week I won this Record (probably a #145). 


Also no side nor crank handle. Also the spirit level appears to be AWOL. It hasn't arrived yet. 

And that's just the breast drills  

Interesting how Record copied other company's products so closely. Some of their planes are exact copies of Stanleys, right down to the non-standard threads. Their #145 breast drill looks to be an exact copy of the Millars Falls #118 drill. I'll be looking for any differences when the Record arrives in the post.

Cheers, Vann.

ps excuse the poor photos - I'm not up to jimi's standard.


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## Scouse (25 Sep 2011)

I love this thread, because it seems I'm not alone on the slope, nor do I have the biggest problem!

Well that's what I thought, but the family are all down on a bench while I put up more shelves...






There's also a Stanley brace waiting to be put back together and a Stanley 905 in a box under the bench!

There didn't seem that many until they are all together.


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## condeesteso (25 Sep 2011)

Very nice indeed Jim - and that MF that failed at a fiver... prob because someone described it as a wheel brace... oh, bless. (And also because I was away at the time).
Anyway, we've done planes, planes are old hat. It's drills we need now. Let me know when you find one with an ebony handle, will you?

(this is subtle market manipulation... if I can convince enough people that planes are old hat, the price will fall... I'll clean up. Exactly like the stock market but nicer.)


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## Alf (26 Sep 2011)

Scouse":3kmy0e1b said:


> I love this thread, because it seems I'm not alone on the slope, nor do I have the biggest problem!
> 
> Well that's what I thought, but the family are all down on a bench while I put up more shelves...


Um, honestly, don't think you have the biggest problem...


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## bugbear (26 Sep 2011)

Alf":2zepw4zi said:


> Scouse":2zepw4zi said:
> 
> 
> > I love this thread, because it seems I'm not alone on the slope, nor do I have the biggest problem!
> ...



No #5803 ?! A fine tool (my go-to egg beater, actually)

Goes nicely alongside the Stanley #748 "Continental", which I can see in your stash.

(edit; googling led me to two interesting #748's on eBay;

This one is borderline NOS, and sold for 17.67 + postage.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-STANL ... 0878374001

This one is in "OK" condition, and the auction *start* price was ... £59.93

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STANLEY-Conti ... 0551035461

)

I've probably ended up with more braces than I really need.







BugBear


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## jimi43 (26 Sep 2011)

One...just *one* of you _*ever*_ mention the "C" word to me with reference to infills and you're done for! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: 

Ever thought of becoming a pilot BB?

You certainly would know what to shout on the intercom just before a crash landing!!! :mrgreen: 

So....ALF....is my "other one" a true Millers Falls or am I on the wrong track? If feel you qualify as an expert on this subject...there's certainly no hope for you on the collector front! In fact...I think you are approaching the "M" word classification!!! :wink: 

Jim


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## Alf (26 Sep 2011)

bugbear":3gqfs29n said:


> No #5803 ?!


I have fond memories of mashing shirts in the gear wheels of wheel braces - why would I change now? 

The Stanley breast drill is one of the ones on the "too far gone, so it's going" pile, so _please_ don't convince me of its merits. Should probably break it for spares (a few braces have already gone that way), but the spares box is threatening to turn into two spares boxes, which kinda defeats the purpose of the world's longest workshop spring clean...

Jim, could be a MF - could not. As ever, no-one seemed shy of copying everyone else's designs. MF usually seem to have been pretty keen on making sure their name was on the tool somewhere though, so I'd hedge towards not (for safety).


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## condeesteso (26 Sep 2011)

Scouse - sorry, been away on holiday by mistake. A quick glance says you are ahead. I seriously thought a while ago that the seven I had was wrong, a failing of sorts. I feel better now.
You may be the man I need: one North Bros 12" brace please. (You are clearly quite good at finding this stuff). If you fail me I suspect BB has one. Good heavens, I only want one. I find this hoarding thing a little odd actually.


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## Scouse (27 Sep 2011)

Ok, Alf wins, I only have one spares box, but I think BB is trying to nudge a further drill-slope descent out of me... and now I've got to look for a 5803 and a 748. It's slippery down here...



condeesteso":1zcpg7ts said:


> one North Bros 12" brace please. (You are clearly quite good at finding this stuff). If you fail me I suspect BB has one. Good heavens, I only want one. I find this hoarding thing a little odd actually.



I wouldn't mind one of these myself, don't know why though. 

And it's not hoarding, it's collecting. No it's not, that's worse; it's...erm... amassing, no that's not much better... stockpiling? LORD NO! Congregating? Yes, that's very civilised; a congregation of drills. Phew. 8-[


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## bugbear (27 Sep 2011)

Alf":2s13dkau said:


> bugbear":2s13dkau said:
> 
> 
> > No #5803 ?!
> ...



I too have oily gear marks on a once-favourite shirt.  

BugBear


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## jimi43 (27 Sep 2011)

One word of warning for anyone keen to slide down this particularly fun slope....

When restoring old drills...when disassembling...remember....they didn't use ball races much in those days...and whatever you do...don't get too excited when you find the cog drift pin that you pull the shaft out over a huge pile of shavings from a previous whittle!

Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!

(homer) 

Jim


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## Scouse (27 Sep 2011)

jimi43":1qhrmdut said:


> Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!



I've got some spares, if you had trouble finding your balls last night, so to speak... :mrgreen:


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## jimi43 (27 Sep 2011)

Scouse":54vfvda2 said:


> jimi43":54vfvda2 said:
> 
> 
> > Those twelve little balls make a rather fun but ultimately annoying treasure hunt at 11pm....DAMHIK!!!
> ...



Amazingly, I managed to find the last two before the crack of dawn.....and now they are firmly back in their little groove alongside their brothers and sisters!

I thought I would have to resort to a magnet at one point.

I didn't take any pictures (thankfully)...as I felt that would have been too humiliating! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

And after that little detour into the land of double entendre....we restore the thread to it's sensible programming....... :shock: 

Jim


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## condeesteso (2 Oct 2011)

Found this on ebay, and it needs to go somewhere... this is about drills so it'll do. Described as a boring tool, Millers Falls of course. Unfortunately it's in the States and he's after £450 on it. Looks fun though:






http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fine-Millers- ... 459wt_1337


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## jimi43 (2 Oct 2011)

Geeeesus Louise...Douglas...it looks like an actor from "War of the Worlds"............ :mrgreen: 

I say go for it! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## AndyT (3 Oct 2011)

'Tis a lovely thing, to be sure. Not too common over here, as they fit into the period in the US when timber framed houses were the normal thing, but before portable power tools. They were used to drill out mortices in chunky framing timbers. No demand for them here, where load-bearing brickwork was everywhere until the 1970s or so.

Presumably the augur bit advances automatically into the timber - anyone know if it's the machine doing the advancing, or a leadscrew on the bit? Does the bit have to match the drill to go at the right rate? Can you vary it?

IIRC, Roy Underhill uses one on his five bar gate.


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## condeesteso (5 Oct 2011)

No way am I buying that... the shipping would a a few dollars too. Andy knows far more about this item than I do. I just liked how it looked and have a weak spot for Millers F. Just acquired an MF No5 hand drill to add to my 'congregation'... still not even close to Scouse's though. And I do keep an eye out for a Darwinator* which if ever found would go on display somewhere in the house (wifey won't mind, surely?)
[* the one with the balls on top, christened Darwinator by Alan.]


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## AndyT (5 Oct 2011)

To keep this rather pleasant thread going a bit longer, and to remind Jim that he's supposed to be doing some wip pics of his new 4 speed drill, here's a little bit more info about it.

This ebay item http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180726278792?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 is yet another example of the same sort. 
I didn't post the link earlier in case of sparking a furious bidding war between forum members, but it went for £4.99 so I think that objective was hit ok. The point to note is that unlike mine or Jim's it has a maker's name. The casting has the letters LAX CONTAL on it. 

Contal was the name of the inventor who patented the ratchet mechanism as an improvement to the existing design, in 1920. I showed his patent earlier, but he doesn't seem to be the originator of the basic idea.

The earliest patent I can find for the idea of the perforated disk is from a Fred Hedinger in 1915, though his design did not have the simple in-and out mechanism for disengaging the pinion which the Contal design had.
You can read his patent here.

The other obvious difference is that his drawing shows a *five speed disk*







so there's a challenge to you all - who can find one of them?


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## Scouse (5 Oct 2011)

condeesteso":1omsmf9j said:


> Just acquired an MF No5 hand drill to add to my 'congregation'... still not even close to Scouse's though.



Pictures?

I have to admit that my No5 is the only one I wouldn't part with, the only one I don't use and the only one I've done no work on. It's in original condition, and is a bit of an oddity with a long side handle which apparently was a feature of, and unique to, turn of the 20th century drills sold by the Montgomery Catalogue.

I'd like to give it a clean (there's no rust, only a bit of dirt), but I'm scared, to be honest; it only cost 99p, so it's not the money and I guess it's not going to be worth much anyway, but it's the removal of 100 years of history. Daft, I know, but hey...






Andy's challenge is also duly accepted!


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## condeesteso (5 Oct 2011)

Scouse!! - hasn't arrived yet... but I'm really worried I won't use it. If you don't why ever would I. Wonder now will it have a long handle, I will have to wait and see. And I paid £20 for mine, so at market prices you are well up. (or I'm a pr*t). I'd say you done well. I do think I might just pimp this one up and look at it.
AND Where's my North Bros?? I'm becoming impatient.

p.s. Scouse - nice bench, did you make that?


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## Scouse (5 Oct 2011)

Hi Douglas

Ebay is one of those funny things, you can pay £1 for a thing one day and £20 the next. I would give £20 for a No5 because it is a handy size and good for delicate work with the wide main gear.

Sorry about the North Brothers, I'm having trouble finding a pair, one each!

As for the bench, it's by Richard Maguire and is honestly the best money I have ever spent, took four of us to carry it ten yards and up two steps into the workshop!

I have to say I admire you for building your own, can't wait to see it when it's finished.

El.


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## condeesteso (5 Oct 2011)

Scousey! If it takes four blokes to carry one bench ten yards, how far can one bloke move one bench in...

[I need to consider this because when I finish this, it shall require moving.]

Sorry, off-topic, I resign now.


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## condeesteso (6 Oct 2011)

Back to drills - the MF No5 arrived:




It's the shorter handle so standard I guess... although I think it's the rare GL version: Goes Luvvly.
Didn't when I first got it, a bit grouchy, but was very dry so a quick clean and lube and it's silky now, as Millers usually are I find.
But I have a query. The end float on the main shaft carrying the chuck is quite a bit, about 2.5mm.
There is a thrust washer between the chuck-side pinion and the frame, and the shaft / pinion will move to close on that washer effectively tightening the tolerances between crown and pinion in the process. It works nicely like that but the amount of float did puzzle me. When I took a Stanley 803 to pieces recently it had a nice ball-bearing acting as the thrust thingy (sorry BB, no idea at all what to call that).
No sign it has been taken apart so I don't really expect anything to be missing. I would consider taking it apart if I knew what needs to be done, but it works fine.
What is yours like Scouse, and any other info on what i should be expecting please?
These pics show the 2 extremes of movement on the axis of the shaft:


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## condeesteso (6 Oct 2011)

Thought that was it for the day. You know, A Millers a day helps you...
But no, wife appears with booty from a late relative's shed:




There are makers here I don't know. The lower one is 803 sized, 2 pinion, seems nicely made, and marked: "J A Chapman Ltd, Sheffield" (side handle missing, maybe in the shed still).
The brace is not a great one, has the remains of a label on the handle but impossible to read anything. But the breast drill at the top is 2 speed, missing side handle (but that may still be in the shed somewhere), marked "Clipper. Made in Fleetway, England".
I'll do a bit of research, but any info appreciated. I think I am now up to about 9, maybe 10. A congregation in one of those really small churches you see perched on a hill in the Dales.
Edits:
added: 1937: Stanley Works entered the UK market with the acquisition of J.A Chapman of Sheffield.

First look, Clipper Fleetway proving slightly more elusive.


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## AndyT (6 Oct 2011)

Douglas - there is clearly a gap in the market here - I don't think anyone has ever collected one of every type of hand drill ever made!

But maybe you will, if they carry on arriving with as little effort as these three. :wink: 

Looking at Chapman drills in the 1935 Buck and Hickman catalogue (from Rose Tools) gives us these three:







Fair enough; choice is a good thing, and the woodworker who spends 8 shillings on a drill may be rarer than the one only willing to part with 5s 6d. And of course there has to be an average, compromise, 7s design.

But yours isn't quite the same as any of these as far as I can tell from your picture - It's a 104 with 2 pinions, or a 105 with a solid gear wheel. Or maybe I'm just underestimating the pace of development of hand drills in the 1930s and these things were the mobile phones of their day, with owners gathering in pubs eager to show off the new features of the latest model.

As for the Fleetway, I haven't a clue, except that they seem to be quite common on eBay so were presumably a common DIY grade tool.


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## Scouse (6 Oct 2011)

AndyT":2y9ak86h said:


> Douglas - there is clearly a gap in the market here - I don't think anyone has ever collected one of every type of hand drill ever made!



Sounds like a challenge, and an excuse!

Douglas, some interesting drills there, especially since they were freebies!

As for the No5, here are two pictures of the same bit of my drill; I have to say there is little movement on mine

Chuck pushed up






Chuck pulled down






I think yours is a later frame to mine, here's a picture of the frame detail






Have you had a look at 'Georges Basement'? It's a comprehensive if disorganised type study of MF eggbeaters (good section on stripping a North Brothers Brace too!) and a generally interesting site for rusty old stuff.

http://www.georgesbasement.com/

El.


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## condeesteso (7 Oct 2011)

Thanks Scouse - I note yours has a crown shaped spacer backing the pinion (between pinion and frame). I can see this one coming apart! The hazards of ebay  
(I will look at Georges anyway.)


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## jimi43 (7 Oct 2011)

condeesteso":q1nczn9x said:


> Thanks Scouse - I note yours has a crown shaped spacer backing the pinion (between pinion and frame). I can see this one coming apart! The hazards of ebay
> (I will look at Georges anyway.)



As we discussed Douglas....but I can probably make you a spacer on the Myford...bring it over when you come.

Cheers

Jim


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## Scouse (7 Oct 2011)

condeesteso":2zhh6x74 said:


> Thanks Scouse - I note yours has a crown shaped spacer backing the pinion (between pinion and frame).



It does? I'm not sure where you mean, where am I looking for that?


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## condeesteso (7 Oct 2011)

Scouse... sorry, it was a shadow :lol: - The shadow off the pinion falling on the spacer or collar between the pinion and frame, or is that all one piece I wonder. Anyway, mine has too much play in it and just has a washer between pinion and frame. It ain't right I think. I'll try and sort it but it isn't going to be an heirloom tool. The wood handles are really nice though... maybe fit those to the teapot?
It's a good job Jim has a lathe!!


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## AndyT (7 Oct 2011)

Douglas, 

I'd be wary of spending lots of time taking up all the slack in a tool like this. You may find that parts aren't quite round enough or planar enough to function without some room to move. I know that on my little MF with the jockey wheel, if I snug it up nicely on one part of the gear wheel it won't actually turn all the way, so it stays slack.

If I were you I'd just try a quick bodge, without dismantling. Find some thickish copper wire eg from some mains TWE cable. Bend and cut a loop about the right size to fit the shaft in question. Flatten it with a hammer so it becomes a soft, split washer. Gently open it, push it in place with pliers and bend it back again as well as you can. Help it stay in place with a dab of grease.


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## Scouse (7 Oct 2011)

I'd agree with Andy, all of my MF drills have a fairly generous margin for error in their engineering, shall we say. Gives them character.

With regard to the spacer issue, I think it may be my rubbish photography which is causing confusion, so here's another two from a different angle, same picture but with and with out flash. Is this where you mean?











El.


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## condeesteso (7 Oct 2011)

Thanks Andy and Scouse - that's what I needed to hear, I have a bench to get on and build after all. It does work nicely (the drill... that is), so I'll live with it and a spacer bodge (copper wire, neat). I did plan to have a pilot bit in it permanently anyway (BB mentioned I recall) and it will serve well I'm sure. Maybe one day I'll make it shiny.


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## Scouse (7 Oct 2011)

Shiny's all well and good, but as you can see from my pictures, it may be over-rated!

And you do need to get a move on with the bench, we're waiting for pictures! :mrgreen:


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## Vann (10 Oct 2011)

The Record breast drill arrived




Vann":3pxrfghy said:


> Interesting how Record copied other company's products so closely. Some of their planes are exact copies of Stanleys, right down to the non-standard threads. Their #145 breast drill looks to be an exact copy of the Millars Falls #118 drill. I'll be looking for any differences when the Record arrives in the post.


It's not quite an exact copy but the similarities are many. I might get around to starting another thread on that subject.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Scouse (11 Oct 2011)

Vann":1o44ey54 said:


> It's not quite an exact copy...



It looks pretty close!!!

I also find the emulation of other companies output by Record interesting, especially given the products made by the companies they took over, I'm thinking of WS/Woden planes with a brass lever cap on the WS, which admittedly did go when Woden took them over, and distinctive side profile on both. I wonder why they didn't keep an element to define themselves from others?


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## condeesteso (22 Oct 2011)

It's happened again. A No5, quite basic one-pinion, but in really nice nick. Got this one by accident (placed a snipe, forgot, then got ebay getting grumpy cos I had forgotten to pay... didn't even know I'd won it).




I have given it a good clean, and I think I'll paint this one. Not seen this before but under the red on the main crown there is gold paint (or some kind of primer maybe?).
Top handle is truly ace - lovely wood and thread super-clean etc. I plan to make this a pretty 'user'.
[And I felt I was doing well, sold 3 handplanes... but just got a coffin smoother and this so net gain one item only.]


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## gounthar (22 Oct 2011)

Well done. I won't show my two 6' braces and 8' brace that I just got cos' they aren't drills.  (hammer) 
I don't have the hand drill bug ... yet. Time will tell. :lol:


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## condeesteso (22 Oct 2011)

Hi G - you did mean ' and not "... cos that means feet. And that would mean a 6 foot and an eight foot brace. Pictures would be required in that case. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## gounthar (22 Oct 2011)

Should go to bed instead of writing approximate sentences...  
6 and 8 inches, of course. #-o


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## condeesteso (22 Oct 2011)

G - I would really like to see the 6" brace - small is beautiful. Pics please.


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## gounthar (23 Oct 2011)

Here you are:




























Pics are not from me, but from the seller.


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## condeesteso (23 Oct 2011)

Both very nice. A 6" is a really neat size too. Good find indeed.


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