# Door Upgrade



## VornCreative (20 Sep 2020)

Hi all,

I rent an old farm outbuilding as a workshop, and I'm currently in the process of winter-proofing. A main concern of mine is the door is an old barn style sliding door - that is quite rotten. It's not very secure, or water tight & blows a draft through all 4 sides. My plan is to build a double door from tanalised timber within the threshold, that has some windows built into the frame. I've been looking at options of securing the frame to the existing stonework securely as I plan to build quite a heavy duty door.

My solution so far is below - I'd love for some of you to cast your eye over the idea and advise accordingly! The door will open outwards, and be hung from large hook & band hinges.
















Any advice is welcomed!


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## AJB Temple (20 Sep 2020)

What will the building owner agree to? Your design changes the character quite a lot. Personally I avoid spending money on things other people own. 

Do those doors slide to each side inside the building? Can they not have brushes fitted?

How much wind are you dealing with? Outward opening doors can be a handful, though these are not terribly large. 

Your drawing gives the impression of a glazed panel, with a pair of doors below. Presumably what you intend is for the glazed panels to be within the door frames? Head height of the doors otherwise looks too low as drawn.


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## VornCreative (20 Sep 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> What will the building owner agree to? Your design changes the character quite a lot. Personally I avoid spending money on things other people own.
> 
> Do those doors slide to each side inside the building? Can they not have brushes fitted?
> 
> ...



Hi AJB, thanks for the reply.

Owner is fine with changes, it'll be painted blue to match. They slide inside the building correct, I've been going to add brushes but the door themselves are shot and require a decent amount of work to repair to make them properly secure. Additionally I lose nearly 8 foot of wall space due to them, which could be an invaluable tool/wood storage area!

I'm not worried about the wind so much, i'll have the doors closed when it's windy, and they'll be drop bolted into the concrete.






Hopefully gives an idea of what I'm thinking. The doors will be 2200 tall. I plan the glazed panels to be part of the frame that sits within the threshold. Do the doors need to be higher?

Cheers


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## Doug71 (20 Sep 2020)

I would make it of decent quality unsorted Redwood rather than tanalised wood, the tanalised stuff is often low quality whitewood and doesn't always paint very well.

I would also probably make the frame thicker ex 75mm with a lath on to form the rebate.


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## Trevanion (20 Sep 2020)

I would personally sit the frame behind the stone reveals as the original door is rather than bringing it out further, just make sure when you measure the frame properly take into account the rebate needs to be past the stone reveals by about an inch or so otherwise you doors won't open. It would be a shame to drill big holes in that lovely stonework.

As Doug said, don't use tanalised and get some decent redwood *at the very least*, it will cost a little bit more but the making will be so much more enjoyable.

I'd also have narrower panes on top of the door frame, to match in with the sliding sashes further up so they don't detract from the overall look of the building.


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## toolsntat (20 Sep 2020)

_I'd be more inclined to look at leaving as is and having a second skin on the inside.
The character of the building is untouched and the new doors are protected by the old.
Whatever happens something needs to be done with the guttering....
Cheers Andy_


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## Beau (20 Sep 2020)

For my last workshop (a barn which is now our home) I built something pretty much identical to what you drew. Worked really well and the doors have now been repurposed and still in use. For doors I used some quality sawn redwood. It was left to fully dry before machining as so much "kiln dried" softwood is not dry enough IME. Finished with a clear Bartine wood preserver followed up with a breathable paint. They have survived 25years on an exposed part or Dartmoor


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## Cabinetman (20 Sep 2020)

I went a bit mad when I did the rear doors to my workshop, not used too often. I was worried about theft so I bolted sheet zinc plate over the outside of the doors which open outwards, + jamb bolts ( coach screws with the heads sawn off) I then fitted huge bolts with ring handles top and bottom to each door. A big heavy piece of 3“ x quarter inch steel over the outside where the doors joined, insulated the inside and covered in ply, except where the bolts are, then I fitted a 4 x 2 drop bar to the inside to stop the doors being pulled open by a truck. I used one inch neoprene pipe installation as draft excluder all round. The opening is approximately 6 feet wide and 7 feet high . 
Impregnable up to now, very few people know what’s inside as well! Ian


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## Trevanion (20 Sep 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> Impregnable up to now, very few people know what’s inside as well! Ian



You see, the dodgy person inside me sees stuff like that and I just think "Hmm, What has he got to hide?"


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## Cabinetman (20 Sep 2020)

Haha, lots and lots of lovely equipment and handtools, my every day invaluable rack of chisels and planes are in a cupboard behind a locked door and then dropped into a purpose-built 'safe' as well. Probably overkill but I would hate to lose them. Ian


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## VornCreative (20 Sep 2020)

Thanks for the replies guys, all points are being considered. RE the redwood, I plan to use Tanalised Scandi Redwood from an old employer, who makes play equipment. I think i'll go back to the landlord and see what he would prefer in terms of placement/look of the door. Does the anchor method (possibly with thicker section size) seem adequate enough for the door frame?

Cheers


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## MikeG. (20 Sep 2020)

Is that building listed, or in the grounds of a listed building? 

Personally, I'd be loath to change the appearance so drastically. If you can't fix the existing, then I'd replace with something that looked all-but identical. Over-door windows are going to look wrong there.


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## Doug71 (20 Sep 2020)

As Trevanion said they will look better set back behind the stone work but if using band and hook style hinges you will need to make sure there is enough frame left exposed to fit the plates for the hooks on to,


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## Inspector (20 Sep 2020)

Have you thought of using a sheet of styrofoam skinned on both sides with plywood, lumber edges. Use a suitable glue between th plywood and styrofoam. Then you can either groove the plywood to look like boards or add wood to the plywood. Strong, insulated and simple to make.

Pete


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## Jackbequick (21 Sep 2020)

Trevanion said:


> I would personally sit the frame behind the stone reveals as the original door is rather than bringing it out further, just make sure when you measure the frame properly take into account the rebate needs to be past the stone reveals by about an inch or so otherwise you doors won't open. It would be a shame to drill big holes in that lovely stonework.
> 
> As Doug said, don't use tanalised and get some decent redwood *at the very least*, it will cost a little bit more but the making will be so much more enjoyable.
> 
> I'd also have narrower panes on top of the door frame, to match in with the sliding sashes further up so they don't detract from the overall look of the building.



I agree with you on this framing concept and not drilling into the sandstone *the sandston may not be a very hard variety, nevertheless what is being proposed is not, in my view considerate treatment of the building or its neighbours. 

I also wonder whether you'll leave the doors open, forcing people to walk on the road...setting aside dust, noise and perhaps never to be fulfilled dreams of 'dust collection' . 

I think the idea of saving a lot of wall space...for storage...infers your drilling into sandstone for shelving/cupboards...I don't credit that you cannot make the sliding door arrangement work and have a small access doorway built into it. As for timber...as it will be timber it seems....I'd be using 3 inch thick seasoned chestnut in a suitable wheeled frame .....there were vast amounts of Chestnut around from the 'grande-vente' in France...huge amounts went to England. Voila


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