# Disaster



## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

Oh No!

I have shredded my Lathe Drive Belt  which Axminster are out of stock of til "early December"
What am I going to do? I don't think I can justify a new lathe on the grounds of a broken drive belt, or can I?
I might have to learn to speak with my wife again!

Colin


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## Blister (8 Nov 2010)

Colin , is it a standard V belt or a Polly V belt ?

Most belts are available from places like Fenner 

http://www.fptgroup.com/fpt-brochures.a ... &docid=107

or any bearing suppliers like 

City Belts & Bearings Ltd
61 Lever Street
Clerkenwell
Islington
London EC1V 3PY


Telephone:


0207 4901111 

if it has a part number on it , or you can measure it , give them a ring , you may be in luck 

:wink:


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## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

thanks for that I will see what I can find out about the existing belt to then enquire of these two outlets.

Much appreciated

Colin


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## petercharlesfagg (8 Nov 2010)

I found a belt for an obscure, ancient machine by simply putting the number into a search engine!

Regards, Peter.


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## miles_hot (8 Nov 2010)

or use one of those multi link poly belts which can be made any length...


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## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

What is the poly link belts and where do you them?
Thanks
Colin


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## Davyboy (8 Nov 2010)

Colin,
Try Beeline Engineering Ltd. (you'll have to Google them) they will provide a belt from your description.


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## CHJ (8 Nov 2010)

Wood spoiler, If we knew the Lathe Model it may be easier for someone to point you to a source.


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## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

Hi
The lathe is a Sealey SM1100 which is the same as a AWVSL 1000

my original post was a light hearted expression of woe. I was surprised (but of course shouldn't have been) by the capacity of the forum to help

Thanks all

Colin


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## miles_hot (8 Nov 2010)

Wood spoiler":1kot5e3z said:


> What is the poly link belts and where do you them?
> Thanks
> Colin



I think that they are these things.

I came very close to buying some when my perform lathe munched it's belt but was put off by not really understanding the terminology. I just got a replacement solid belt from Axminster... 

All the reviews I've seen of these are positive and I'll be getting some as standby spares when I get around to it.

Miles


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## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

Thanks Miles
I will call them in the morning and get hold of one to give it a try.
My lathe is given to a bit of rattling, it will be interesting to see if it makes an improvement as claimed. 
Watch this space
Colin


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## CHJ (8 Nov 2010)

If it's the one I think it is it's an 0-560 (approx 595mm outer diameter) X 8.5-9mm wide.

The only one I have is used so is difficult to measure accurately.


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## Wood spoiler (8 Nov 2010)

By Jove Chas I think thats it!
I measured the remains of mine and its about 620mm, 8.5mm depth and 6mm on the back edge. Where the brading has broken I reckon there is about 20 mm of stretch.
With that code I should be able to track down one.


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## kirkpoore1 (9 Nov 2010)

Hi, Colin:

You might try visiting a local auto parts store. Most belts come in standard cross sections, and they will have a variety of lengths, so you should be able to match the belt exactly. You might also want to see what kind of adjustment your lathe has in case your new belt is a little too loose or too tight. And if you buy one that's not quite the right size, you'll be able to exchange it. I think it took four trips to the store to get the right belt size for my lathe--the variable speed pulleys made measurement very difficult.

Kirk


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## Wood spoiler (9 Nov 2010)

Thanks to Chas's detective work in identifying a part number I have sourced the required belt through Power Tool Spares - plentiful suply in stock for just £5.25 - safely ordered (together with a spare!) and being sent today :lol: 

Thanks to everyone for their kind assistance

Colin

http://www.powertoolspares.com


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## Wood spoiler (12 Nov 2010)

The saga continues ....
The ordered belts arrived next day, but turned out they were 20 mm short and the actual belt should have been 062 (number on outside)
I managed to get the belt on by opening the variable calliper to max speed
Having switched it on it is barely turning. I was physically turning it to get it going but after 10 minutes still not much improved and I can't get the speed to change.
Anyone any ideas on what I need to do. 
At this rate the suggestion is obviously to get a good lathe said half tongue in cheek but I am wondering ....


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## Dodge (12 Nov 2010)

Just a thought,

You mention that the lathe is of the variable speed drive type - I'm assuming its an Axminster AWVSL900 or similar.

Well loads of manufacturers actually badge that same lathe, such as SIP - Have you thought about trying their spares dept for a replacement belt?
http://www.sipuk.co.uk/tools/spares.html

Rog


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## kirkpoore1 (12 Nov 2010)

Wood spoiler":2w6yhey3 said:


> Anyone any ideas on what I need to do.
> At this rate the suggestion is obviously to get a good lathe said half tongue in cheek but I am wondering ....



That bites. Take it to a local auto parts store and tell them you need one about 20 mm longer. Then return the short one.
Here's mine:





I don't know if your lathe has a VS pulley like that, but if so they're hard to measure and hard to fit by random trial.

Kirk


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2010)

If they are 20 mm short (in circumference) then that equates to 6.4 mm between centres (a little over 1/4") can you by any chance move the motor that much on its mounts.

The 0-560 (inner circumference strangely not mean) is the axminster part for 900 and perform series., can't see the 1000 being so much different.


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## Wood spoiler (12 Nov 2010)

Sorry I didn't make clear I did get the 20mm longer one after finding the first one was too short, but having fitted the correct one that is when I am still getting problems.
I have put in a couple of piccies to show what is happening. The motor is hard bolted to the frame with no potential for adjustment


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2010)

You just need to part the two motor pulley flanges, the belt is riding on the top not in the vee.

Be very careful if you try to edge them apart, the castings are very fragile. You need as many wooden wedges as you can place between them to gently ease them apart.

You may need assistance to do this but your safest bet is to slacken off the inner pulley, undo the grub screw, then remove the circlip on the end of the shaft. Be ready to catch the spring. Then refix the inner pulley and with belt at its highest point on the pulley but just in the vee refit the spring and circlip. to aid this compress the spring in a vice and wire it semi closed with a couple of pieces of thin wire. When circlip is in place snip the wire ties and release the spring.

In future leave the damaged belt in place on the motor pulley until the new one is fitted then cut the old one free.


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## kirkpoore1 (12 Nov 2010)

Wood spoiler":2l8aqx5u said:


>



Whoa! That _ain't_ right. Your belt shouldn't be riding on the edge of the motor pulley like that. It's probably how the first belt got destroyed. 

Even at the highest speed setting, the outside edge of the belt should be no more than level with the edge of the motor pulley. Either that belt is too long, or your speed selector is out of adjustment--or both. Is that black handle at the top of the pulley your speed handle? I'm going to assume it is. When the speed handle is moved to a slower speed, it will force the two halves of the non-motor Reeves pulley together. That should, in turn, increase the radius that the belt is running on the Reeves pulley, making the belt tighter and forcing toward the shaft of the motor pulley. The two halves of the motor pulley will be forced apart by the belt. 

A shorter belt will force the motor pulley halves apart sooner, letting the belt sit closer to the shaft of the pulley. Or, a slower speed will pull the belt in. If your speed handle can be adjusted to prevent too high a speed, you should be OK.

Have you checked the length of this belt with your trashed belt? Are they the same, or way different?

Kirk


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2010)

kirkpoore1":2dknt330 said:


> Whoa! That _ain't_ right. Your belt shouldn't be riding on the edge of the motor pulley like that.


Agreed, I think the original belt length was more likely the correct one. Then the belt would never be able to ride that high.


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## Wood spoiler (12 Nov 2010)

Thanks Chas
I have examined further and I think the flanges you identified are supposed to move in and out corresponding to the gear on the other side. With your tip it appears that the flanges on the motor side have seized and that would be the cause of chewing up the drive belt.

Kirk
The handle you can see is the tightening clamp on the bed.

It looks like my problems are more serious than I thought. Not just a drive belt. The old belt had come off the motor side before I opened the casing.
Looks like it is time to blow the dust off the warranty 
Cheers 
Colin


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2010)

I know exactly how the system works Colin, I have owned an axminster version of the type and fitted at least 4 new belts and currently have a much bigger machine with the same type of drive.

How often did you grease the motor shaft through the end grease point, if regularly used it should be check and done at least once a month.

If you do as I say and remove the spring you will find that you can remove the pulley outer flange. You may wish to get a shorter belt before trying to use it else the current belt will just ride out of the motor pulley as soon as you move your lever to high speed.

You will not be able to pull the motor pulley flanges apart with your hands, the spring is too strong.


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## Wood spoiler (12 Nov 2010)

Thanks Chas

No greasing in the 5 months I have owned it!
I will set to tomorrow and follow your instructions.
What grease should be applied? 
I have both belts, the one that I got today was from the Sealey agent, the one you said I got from power tool spares


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## Steve Jones (12 Nov 2010)

Colin,

Chas is spot on with the advice, I have an Axminster Lathe with the same drive and changed my belt earlier this year, only difference with me was I could just part the pulley flange with my fingers to get the belt in.

Hope you get it sorted tomorrow

Steve


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## CHJ (12 Nov 2010)

Any general light machine/bearing grease will do it only has to aid the pulley flange sliding it does not have to support heavy loads, if you don't have one you can usually get a little press to apply grease gunalready loaded, enough to last years, you only need to ensure there is a slight smear on the shaft.

If you are stuck for grease then vaseline or similar will do until you can get some.

The top shaft, pulley area and mechanism should be sprayed with Dry PTFE Lubricant,don't want grease or oil flying around to collect dust.

The belt I pictured had beeen on a machine for 9 months and heavily used, only removed to fit new for lathe sale.


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## kirkpoore1 (12 Nov 2010)

Colin:

On the grease, see if the manual says anything. You may be able to use any light grease, even the spray-on stuff.

If you have problems with getting the spring back on, you can compress it using a couple of zip ties, thus:






After everything is reassembled, just cut the ties.

Kirk


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## Wood spoiler (13 Nov 2010)

Thanks to all those that helped, particularly Chas, for your much appreciated help guidance and instructions.
I am pleased to report my lathe is spinning once more.

Having removed the circlip and spring I had to use the suggested wedges all round to budge the motor flange which was seized on the motor shaft.
My new bottle of grease stands alongside the lathe as necessary reminder that it needs monthly application!

I hope anyone following these trials can gain from my experience - especially the valuable information about the greasing of the moving parts. I don't recall any instructions in this regard in the basic instructions that came with the Lathe

Cheers once again

Colin


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## kirkpoore1 (13 Nov 2010)

Wood spoiler":ib1byuxq said:


> ...
> I hope anyone following these trials can gain from my experience - especially the valuable information about the greasing of the moving parts. I don't recall any instructions in this regard in the basic instructions that came with the Lathe
> 
> Cheers once again
> ...



That's good news, Colin. One thing about Reeves pulleys is that you're supposed to run them through their whole speed range at least once per day or so. This may help keep your grease spread around. Since you've already had problems, I'd do that check with the cover off so you can keep an eye on it.

Did you say your lathe is fairly new (under a year old)? I find it pretty disturbing that the pulley seized up so fast, even with no additional lubrication. 

Ah, well, it does remind me that I need to get out and lube the pulleys and quill on my drill press.

Kirk


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## CHJ (13 Nov 2010)

kirkpoore1":si5sfgjv said:


> .....Did you say your lathe is fairly new (under a year old)? I find it pretty disturbing that the pulley seized up so fast, even with no additional lubrication.
> ..Kirk



Kirk, these machines, sold under a variety of brand names in the Uk, although good value for new starters and have a reasonable life span if maintained are at the lower end of mechanical specifications and the reeves drive bits are no exception.

They can be worked hard but need the associated regular TLC to stop things falling apart. Looking at the original picture I suspect the machine did not even have any lubrication in an on the motor spindle when supplied.


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## kirkpoore1 (13 Nov 2010)

CHJ":37mf09ia said:


> Kirk, these machines, sold under a variety of brand names in the Uk, although good value for new starters and have a reasonable life span if maintained are at the lower end of mechanical specifications and the reeves drive bits are no exception.
> 
> They can be worked hard but need the associated regular TLC to stop things falling apart. Looking at the original picture I suspect the machine did not even have any lubrication in an on the motor spindle when supplied.



Thanks, Chas, a little too much "value engineering" would explain the problem. If it had said "Harbor Freight" or "Central Machinery" on it I would have known just what Colin was dealing with.

Kirk


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## CHJ (13 Nov 2010)

Well I refrained from using those names which I regularly see referenced on Family Woodworking and Yahoo groups but you have nailed the standard.

All the machines come out of generic Chiwan workshops and although looking similar, with only the paint colour obvious there can be considerable difference in mechanical fit and finish dependant on which price point in the Quality Audit chain the separate parts were screened out at.
Unfortunately UK retail price does not always reflect importers QA standards. 

The version I had was at the very bottom of the spec. scale but marketed by one of the better UK Brands and stood up to some real challenges


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## kirkpoore1 (13 Nov 2010)

CHJ":sz2ws243 said:


> The version I had was at the very bottom of the spec. scale but marketed by one of the better UK Brands and stood up to some real challenges



Wow, that was a chunk o' wood. Did you have to add some weight to the lathe to keep it from walking all over the floor when you started the bowl blank turning?

Well, I did just go lube up my drill press and planer for the first time in a year (Powermatic and Oliver, no Horror Freight for me), so those machines should be good for a while. This has been a good reminder to stay on top of things.

Kirk


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## Bodrighy (13 Nov 2010)

My first lathe was the same as Chas's and I knackered it turning too many rustic, off balance pieces without a lot of dedicated maintenance. Not the lathe's fault, my ignorance. As Chas says, they are fine if used only within their limitations. 

Pete


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## big soft moose (13 Nov 2010)

following this with interest - i guess i'm just naturally lucky cos my first lathe was a axminster M900 which i had for 8 years , never greased, and which only needed one new belt in that time.


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## CHJ (13 Nov 2010)

kirkpoore1":3vdzjwyc said:


> wow, that was a chunk o' wood. Did you have to add some weight to the lathe to keep it from walking all over the floor when you started the bowl blank turning?.....Kirk



No Kirk, just did some balancing with my cheapy powered plane with it stationary first. I do not like relying on mechanical muscle to restrain out of balance, and especially with a machine with such lightweight bearings etc. (something drummed into me at age 16)

We do have the occasional machine over here with heavy Reeves drives although 3ph electronic drives are more in current evidence.

Heres one from the late 1990's (once owned by member Blister) still going strong.


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## Wood spoiler (13 Nov 2010)

> Looking at the original picture I suspect the machine did not even have any lubrication in an on the motor spindle when supplied.



As an observation, after effecting the repair, including applying the suggested grease, the speed mechanism has been much smoother and more fluid than at any time that I have been using the lathe. I would suspect that you are correct about the absence of lubrication from the manufacturer. I am impressed that you could tell that from the pictures!


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## CHJ (13 Nov 2010)

There is not enough entrapped dust on any of the motor parts for a machine used long enough to shred a belt. 

You'll see the difference when you next clean and service when there is a smear of grease to attract the dust.

I used a stiff washing up brush to shift the worst of it.

Despite the fact that letting Dry PTFE lube get on the cones or belt would suggest lack of drive and slipping I never found it a problem, in fact it just appeared to run quieter.


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## kirkpoore1 (13 Nov 2010)

CHJ":yc637abw said:


> No Kirk, just did some balancing with my cheapy powered plane with it stationary first. I do not like relying on mechanical muscle to restrain out of balance, and especially with a machine with such lightweight bearings etc. (something drummed into me at age 16)



Certainly that's the best policy. I haven't done bowls, but I had an eight pound piece of oak I was starting to turn come flying out of my old lathe one time--busted my tool rest then flew right by my head. Fortunately, I was just reaching down to turn off the lathe and move the belt to a slower setting, and that took me out of the line of fire. 



CHJ":yc637abw said:


> We do have the occasional machine over here with heavy Reeves drives although 3ph electronic drives are more in current evidence.
> 
> Heres one from the late 1990's (once owned by member Blister) still going strong.



That's a very heavy Reeves drive--I bet it's smoooooth, though. Cast iron? Doesn't look like aluminum. Yes, the electronic drives (variable frequency drives/VFD's) are the wave of the future. A combo is the best of both works--low end torque from a belt and convenience from the VFD.

My lathe is a 60's era Delta that I rebuilt last spring. Here's a look:






I added a VFD in the same location where the old magnetic starter lived:





I still need a new speed handle, but it works just fine. I just wish I had more time for turning to take advantage of it.

Colin, as Chas says, your lathe should be OK as long as you pay close attention to it and don't overload. And when you sell it to the next guy after upgrading, you can give him a better education in maintenance than he'll ever get out of the book.

Kirk


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## CHJ (13 Nov 2010)

That's a beautiful hunk of machinery Kirk, shame to get it dirty, best of both worlds with that drive flexibility.

Yes cast iron, my current main machine (later version of the above has a high torque 3ph drive, not as posh as yours though.

The mechanical one has a slow speed motor (6pole 950rpm) the reason it can get away with smaller pulley range.


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## kirkpoore1 (14 Nov 2010)

CHJ":1adlnake said:


> That's a beautiful hunk of machinery Kirk, shame to get it dirty, best of both worlds with that drive flexibility.
> 
> Yes cast iron, my current main machine (later version of the above has a high torque 3ph drive, not as posh as yours though.
> 
> The mechanical one has a slow speed motor (6pole 950rpm) the reason it can get away with smaller pulley range.



"Posh"--I like that. But it didn't start out posh, that's for sure, just cheap:




*(Full story here.)*
Kirk


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## CHJ (14 Nov 2010)

That's a great make-over Kirk, I can see many lost hours in my future browsing that site. Thanks for the link.


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