# Linseed oil and linseed oil paint



## deema (3 Nov 2018)

I was reading a recent reply to a post where it was stated that linseed oil offers very little to any protection against the weather. This is not the first time I’ve read this and I can’t help wondering what really is the case.

Linseed oil paint has in most cases three constituents from my reading, linseed oil (majority) a pigment and a dash of natural turpentine. The pigment doesn’t seem to offer any weather protection and the only component that could offer protection is the linseed oil. I know that originally lead was added to most paint which killed of any fungus etc but has been banned for a long time. So modern linseed oil paints use titanium dioxide for white which is also very toxic. There are numerous testimonials to linseed oil paint lasting c15 years with only the occasional paint over with linseed oil.

Does anyone know what the weather protection properties are of linseed oil? I find it offers as good protection as most things, it just has no UV protection so things fade or go dark depending on species.


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## thetyreman (3 Nov 2018)

from my non academic research, I found that pure tung oil is far superior at rejecting moisture and mould e.t.c, but I don't know how much of this is snake oil and how much of it is real science.


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## deema (3 Nov 2018)

I agree, I’ve used pure Tung oil on oak which works well.


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## Jacob (4 Nov 2018)

Linseed oil paint is totally superior to modern paints in terms of durability. It was marketed by Holkham Hall but now available from others. Brand name "Allback"
http://www.allback.aannemer-nijland.nl/ ... engels.pdf
Not sure about oil on it's own but I'd be surprised if it didn't work just as well, though oil finishes need more regular maintenance than paints. It's very easy to apply.


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## deema (4 Nov 2018)

Thanks Jacob, all of the recipies I’ve found for linseed oil paint consist of linseed oil and a pigment with perhaps a little thinner, usually natural turpentine. I know you and lots of others have had great success with the paint, and originally it was extensively used and worked as folk law suggests better than modern paints. The only two real draw backs being it’s difficult to apply thinly enough to avoid crinkles and runs and the other that it takes ages to dry. Both of which make it not really a DIY product when compared to modern paints. 

The point being that linseed oil as a external preservative has a very poor reputation when applied without a pigment (making it a paint). To apply it correctly, like the paint is difficult as you can end up with crinkles and worse still a sticky mess that will not set. However, that aside the question phrased slightly differently is why is the paint considered a ‘miracle’ finish and linseed oil not?


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## Jacob (5 Nov 2018)

deema":hvqu0467 said:


> ......The only two real draw backs being it’s difficult to apply thinly enough to avoid crinkles and runs and the other that it takes ages to dry. Both of which make it not really a DIY product when compared to modern paints. ...


I'd say exactly the opposite. It's very easy to apply thinly - no skill required at all though it helps if you can do a clean edge against glass etc. 
You just have to get away from the modern paint technique of laying on nice smooth layers. Instead you brush it on with a stiff brush and brush it out thin enough so there are no pools, runs etc. More like applying creosote than painting and very fast!
It takes 24 to 48 hours to dry. It seems to stay wet for some time and then goes off quite quickly.
For DIY it's a lot easier in every respect - easy to put on, needs no thinners, easy to wash off your hands with soap and water, easy to leave the brush suspended in oil until the next time, or wash it out in the normal way with thinners or brush cleaner. No VOCs etc.
It will need more some years down the line but this is easy - wash down with soap and water and apply oil alone, or paint if it needs it. No need to burn off and it doesn't flake off or crack.
It also seems to stick well to old paint and effectively stabilises it, so burning off becomes a thing of the past. NB recent past that is, it was never done in 19C when paint was all linseed oil.
I've been using it for 10 years or so and now won't be using anything else for exterior work.


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## tony_s (5 Nov 2018)

I tried it about 5 years ago on my garden sheds and have used it since on a couple of other exterior projects and absolutely love it. The only downside imho is the drying time.


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## ED65 (14 Nov 2018)

deema":asnrouy9 said:


> Linseed oil paint has in most cases three constituents from my reading, linseed oil (majority) a pigment and a dash of natural turpentine.


It's a little more complicated than that. There are permissible stabilisers and other additives (fungicides being an important one) can be included in very small amounts and the industry may not have to mention or list it/them – in fact manufacturers sometimes go out of their way to obfuscate and even lie about them being present – but at the most basic linseed oil paint can be just oil and pigment, although rarely just one.

Paints today will rarely contain turps but some form of white spirit instead, although it doesn't really matter which is used as they're just there to thin. Any paints that do use turpentine will probably do so because of its apparent green credentials or because they can make the claim that their paints are "all natural" (another lie).



deema":asnrouy9 said:


> The pigment doesn’t seem to offer any weather protection and the only component that could offer protection is the linseed oil.


No that's completely wrong, the pigment(s) offer a huge amount of protection not just to the wood underneath (literally because it shields it from light) but also to the paint/coating itself. 

Paint made from linseed oil and linseed oil by itself shouldn't be expected to have similar properties. The binders of no paints, by themselves, are anything like the paints made from them in various ways.

The pigments in paint, because they're often mineral particles that are opaque, and additionally absorb some light frequencies, impart a HUGE amount of protection to the binder. The simplest example of this is probably alkyd varnish, which isn't durable outdoors, but make up an enamel from it by adding pigment and it can last years.



deema":asnrouy9 said:


> ...titanium dioxide for white which is also very toxic.


I'm not sure what sources you've been reading but TiO2 isn't toxic at all. It's safe enough that it's used in toothpastes, but even better it's used to colour many oral medicines, even in foods! 



deema":asnrouy9 said:


> Does anyone know what the weather protection properties are of linseed oil? I find it offers as good protection as most things, it just has no UV protection so things fade or go dark depending on species.


It depends a bit on the version, what you're applying it to, its condition and how you apply it. But the bottom line is for our climate it's just not a viable wood finish for exterior use. By itself it can work reasonably well, but only in a drier climate and when applied quite heavily, taking weeks to dry.


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## Jacob (14 Nov 2018)

ED65":3pssaiu1 said:


> ...... By itself it can work reasonably well, but only in a drier climate and when applied quite heavily, taking weeks to dry.


Basic linseed oil mistake there! It works best if applied very thinly and takes 24/48 hours to dry, even in cold/damp weather. It oxidises - it doesn't "dry" strictly speaking, but yes heat will speed it up.
First coat slowest (soaks in etc) but later coats very quick and easy to apply. No skill required.
I haven't done much oil alone externally, but the paint works brilliantly so I'm staying open minded on oil alone.


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## Jacob (13 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Basic linseed oil mistake there! It works best if applied very thinly and takes 24/48 hours to dry, even in cold/damp weather. It oxidises - it doesn't "dry" strictly speaking, but yes heat will speed it up.
> First coat slowest (soaks in etc) but later coats very quick and easy to apply. No skill required.
> I haven't done much oil alone externally, but the paint works brilliantly so I'm staying open minded on oil alone.


Just having linseed oil paint top-up job done.
This is on 16 very large chapel windows, softwood mostly new (copy) work and some repaired. Last painted between 7 to 12 years ago.
Verdict on the paint - was looking a bit dull but absolutely zero rot or flaking. A few inches of putty fillet loose/ missing.
Verdict on the repaint - very easy to do, probably unnecessary but looks a lot brighter. Not much paint used up. Should last even longer than the first job!
In other words Allback linseed oil paint is excellent and does what it says on the tin!
A great relief - in the past I've had dreadful failures with Dulux, ali primer etc and feared for the survival of this massive softwood restoration job.
No problems!  Phew!
PS rumours of mildew unfounded. Non apparent. Did get it on some doors last year but that was after an oil-only top-up but with another brand. Allback say "sterilised" so maybe that makes the difference.
n.b. I've no connection with Allback etc - never even a free sample!


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## Inspector (13 Jun 2022)

Just for clarity are you talking of raw linseed oil plus pigments etc or boiled linseed oil used to make the paints?

Pete


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## Jacob (13 Jun 2022)

Inspector said:


> Just for clarity are you talking of raw linseed oil plus pigments etc or boiled linseed oil used to make the paints?
> 
> Pete


Raw linseed as a primer and paint made with boiled linseed and pigments.
1344ae24-8229-4f01-851a-7645ad9ce96a seem to be the only UK source though there have been other suppliers. 
The downside is limited range of colours tending to be a bit dull, and an eggshell/ matt finish. No high gloss means less easy to clean quite so perfectly, though presumably it could be varnished in the traditional way


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## Inspector (13 Jun 2022)

Thanks. The Allback (at Lee Valley) sells for $82.50Cad/53pounds a litre so before I consider using it for anything big like a house I would need a lot of proof it is as good as claimed in our climate. Maybe there are cheaper sellers here but the cost and work makes me happy the house is all vinyl. That's the only reason though.

Pete


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## Jacob (13 Jun 2022)

Inspector said:


> Thanks. The Allback (at Lee Valley) sells for $82.50Cad/53pounds a litre so before I consider using it for anything big like a house I would need a lot of proof it is as good as claimed in our climate. Maybe there are cheaper sellers here but the cost and work makes me happy the house is all vinyl. That's the only reason though.
> 
> Pete


There are other suppliers but probably not cheap. It does go a long way though and is easy to apply. I think its good value when you take everything into account. Pure Linseed Oil Paint
Main thing is longevity - given good design and normal maintenance softwood joinery can last indefinitely and outlive plastic by 100 years or more!


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## Kittyhawk (14 Jun 2022)

I use boiled Linseed Oil exclusively on my Inuit style kayak paddles using the time honoured method of one coat a day for a week, one coat a week for a month, one coat a month for a year and thereafter, one coat annually. A paddle is subject to frequent immersion and scuffing and boiled Linseed Oil holds up exceptionally well - far better than varnish.
Application is very simple. Apply with a rag, brush or whatever. Leave for 20 minutes then rub down vigorously with a cloth to remove the surplus oil.
Here is my walking stick, made from some hardwood or other that I had on hand. I use it daily in all weathers and it was last recoated with oil 2 years ago.


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## pgrbff (14 Jun 2022)

deema said:


> Thanks Jacob, all of the recipies I’ve found for linseed oil paint consist of linseed oil and a pigment with perhaps a little thinner, usually natural turpentine. I know you and lots of others have had great success with the paint, and originally it was extensively used and worked as folk law suggests better than modern paints. The only two real draw backs being it’s difficult to apply thinly enough to avoid crinkles and runs and the other that it takes ages to dry. Both of which make it not really a DIY product when compared to modern paints.
> 
> The point being that linseed oil as a external preservative has a very poor reputation when applied without a pigment (making it a paint). To apply it correctly, like the paint is difficult as you can end up with crinkles and worse still a sticky mess that will not set. However, that aside the question phrased slightly differently is why is the paint considered a ‘miracle’ finish and linseed oil not?


The pure linseed paint I use has no thinner as far as I know and I also choose the version without driers. If it wrinkles it is being applied incorrectly. I have only used it over sweet chestnut, inside and out, but it is very thoroughly brushed out. I only apply one coat.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> The pure linseed paint I use has no thinner as far as I know and I also choose the version without driers. If it wrinkles it is being applied incorrectly. I have only used it over sweet chestnut, inside and out, but it is very thoroughly brushed out. I only apply one coat.


Allback - no thinners but includes a drier. Add boiled linseed oil if thinning required. Is actually easy to apply brushed thinly and requires very little skill at all except keeping a neat edge against the glass. This also accounts for its good coverage.
It seems to stick to everything - just one coat (black) needed on some wrought iron gates, and covering patches of previous paint left after a rub down.


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## pgrbff (14 Jun 2022)

The brand I use. reine Leinölfarben, is available with or without driers. I always buy without and in our climate it still dries within hours.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

Kittyhawk said:


> I use boiled Linseed Oil exclusively on my Inuit style kayak paddles using the time honoured method of one coat a day for a week, one coat a week for a month, one coat a month for a year and thereafter, one coat annually. A paddle is subject to frequent immersion and scuffing and boiled Linseed Oil holds up exceptionally well - far better than varnish.
> Application is very simple. Apply with a rag, brush or whatever. Leave for 20 minutes then rub down vigorously with a cloth to remove the surplus oil.
> Here is my walking stick, made from some hardwood or other that I had on hand. I use it daily in all weathers and it was last recoated with oil 2 years ago.
> View attachment 137669


I've done same process on a sanded down mid century modern table top, but with raw oil. Very quick to apply and rub down but a long wait for a good finish - probably did about 10 applications. It looks really good, not too shiny and brings out the colour of the teak, afromosia etc


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> The brand I use. reine Leinölfarben, is available with or without driers. I always buy without and in our climate it still dries within hours.


Looks interesting! Home


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## sawtooth-9 (14 Jun 2022)

I agree with ED65

Ti O2 is not toxic ( I guess anyone who uses toothpaste, skin care products and sunscreen - should be dead ! )

Pigments in paints are what provide UV ( outdoor weathering ) resistance.
The oil, penetrates the wood and helps the pigment to penetrate the pores of the timber, the oil itself has "some" UV protection, but it's limited. Mostly the UV assists in polymerisation of the oil. . On exposure to air and UV, the various oils can "thicken" or polymerise providing a "hard" finish.

Modern "paints" substitute a polymer ( eg Urethane in a higher viscosity base )for a slow curing oil. These polymers have UV additives and can generally carry a higher level f UV absorbing pigments

You have not stated what you want to protect - perhaps it's time for a little pragmatism rather than going down a "rabbit hole" - or is this just "fishing" ?


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

sawtooth-9 said:


> ....
> 
> You have not stated what you want to protect - perhaps it's time for a little pragmatism rather than going down a "rabbit hole" - or is this just "fishing" ?


Generally the issue is protecting external joinery. Obvious really.
And in my experience it protects it really well, though it is effectively "sacrificial" and will be slowly lost from the surface.


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## Kittyhawk (14 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> I've done same process on a sanded down mid century modern table top, but with raw oil. Very quick to apply and rub down but a long wait for a good finish - probably did about 10 applications. It looks really good, not too shiny and brings out the colour of the teak, afromosia etc


I've only ever used boiled Linseed Oil on the understanding that it dries quicker than raw Linseed Oil but I don't know anything about it other than that. Is there a reason that you opted to use the raw oil?


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## DrDarren (14 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Raw linseed as a primer and paint made with boiled linseed and pigments.
> 1344ae24-8229-4f01-851a-7645ad9ce96a seem to be the only UK source though there have been other suppliers.
> The downside is limited range of colours tending to be a bit dull, and an eggshell/ matt finish. No high gloss means less easy to clean quite so perfectly, though presumably it could be varnished in the traditional way


There is another. Have not used him yet but intend to this summer. natural linseed oil ecologically green paint


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

DrDarren said:


> There is another. Have not used him yet but intend to this summer. natural linseed oil ecologically green paint


I emailed them a couple of times and had no reply. I assumed they were no longer trading as the website looks unchanged over many years.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

Kittyhawk said:


> I've only ever used boiled Linseed Oil on the understanding that it dries quicker than raw Linseed Oil but I don't know anything about it other than that. Is there a reason that you opted to use the raw oil?


Just from picking up hints here and there. Sometimes contradictory but the suggestion is that raw penetrates better.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Generally the issue is protecting external joinery. Obvious really.
> And in my experience it protects it really well, though it is effectively "sacrificial" and will be slowly lost from the surface.


To which I should have added; as distinct from modern paints where the wood is sacrificial instead, with the paint sometimes still in good order on completely waterlogged timber!


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## imageel (14 Jun 2022)

I've not used linseed oil paint for many years, 20+ at least however would agree that it is easy to apply and long lasting if used internally. I can't remember the brand I last used but it was a pre-mix of linseed and a fine white - most likely chalk powder and whilst I'd agree with the comments wrt drying times a big advantage is its ability to take dyes readily and achieve a broad range of muted to quite strong colours.
I've not used it externally however I have used Tung oil both internally and externally and whilst it like many of the translucent exterior paints, offers very little UV protection it does provide good weather protection.
Another advantage of both is that repairs or touch ups can be applied subsequently with almost seamless results.
I've also successfully used Linseed internally on plastered walls as what is referred to as a distemper finish - this is quite durable but will darken somewhat if exposed to strong sunlight and the only disadvantage I can think of aside from the extended drying times and smell -you either love it or hate it, is the fact that AFAIK there is little other than abrasives that can remove it once cured.
WRT to drying - this is for both linseed and Tung actually oxidation of the oils and it is for this reason that any rags or cloths used for either application or cleaning of tools need to be disposed of safely by dampening them with water since the high surface area afforded by the materials fibres can allow the heat generated through the oxidation process to combust the material....
As an example of the kind of protection and finish this can give I used Tung oil to finish my Sapele window frames on my workshop, I just checked my original photos exif data and this was in the summer of 2011 and exterior wise aside from UV fading the frames are still in pretty good condition and in particular the end-grain of the cills show very little evidence of shrinkage and still look as crisp as when new -
As built -





Today -


















/Ed


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## DrDarren (14 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> I emailed them a couple of times and had no reply. I assumed they were no longer trading as the website looks unchanged over many years.


Oh what a shame. I really liked his attitude and what he was offering.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

DrDarren said:


> Oh what a shame. I really liked his attitude and what he was offering.


Might be worth a try - let us know if you have any luck!


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## niall Y (14 Jun 2022)

I have mixed opinions about linseed oil paints. From my own experience, they are not without their downsides. I believe the reason they functioned so well in the past ,was the copious amounts of lead used in their preparation.
With the paints used in the Victorian period, it seems to be the primers and undercoats that did the bulk of the protection, with the top coat supplying the colour and a degree of gloss. Along with the linseed oil, the primer seems to have consisted of a mixture of white and red lead, giving it that telltale pink colouring.
A few years ago I decorated the exterior of a nice old farmhouse, using the 'Holkham Hall' paint supplied by the customer. I found it pleasant to apply and it was dry by the next day. One of the downsides was it didn't like being rained upon - which is quite likely to happen here in West Wales. It dulls and roughs the surface, which can only be got rid of by sanding and over painting.By the time the scaffolding came down, it didn't look to me like the house had just been painted, though the customer was pleased with the result
Fast forward to now , and on my own house I'm considering using it for some barge-boards , that I repaired and painted a couple of years ago. Being in an exposed position, the paint has deteriorated badly, so repainting is a priority. I've been looking a the price of the linseed -oil paint and I can't really justify spending so much WHAT.... £139 A TIN! Bearing in mind decorators in the past made their own paint, how difficult can it be? So, with boiled linseed at £12 'ish for 2 Litres and a Kilo of black pigment about £ 13. then even adding in the cost of a glass muller. I should be quids in.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

niall Y said:


> I have mixed opinions about linseed oil paints. From my own experience, they are not without their downsides. I believe the reason they functioned so well in the past ,was the copious amounts of lead used in their preparation.
> With the paints used in the Victorian period, it seems to be the primers and undercoats that did the bulk of the protection, with the top coat supplying the colour and a degree of gloss. Along with the linseed oil, the primer seems to have consisted of a mixture of white and red lead, giving it that telltale pink colouring.


A lot of people make the lead assumption but it seems that the linseed oil paint, not lead content, is the main issue.


niall Y said:


> A few years ago I decorated the exterior of a nice old farmhouse, using the 'Holkham Hall' paint supplied by the customer. I found it pleasant to apply and it was dry by the next day. One of the downsides was it didn't like being rained upon - which is quite likely to happen here in West Wales. It dulls and roughs the surface, which can only be got rid of by sanding and over painting.By the time the scaffolding came down, it didn't look to me like the house had just been painted, though the customer was pleased with the result


Yes it doesn't look as bright and shiny as modern gloss but it certainly is OK in the rain!


niall Y said:


> Fast forward to now , and on my own house I'm considering using it for some barge-boards , that I repaired and painted a couple of years ago. Being in an exposed position, the paint has deteriorated badly,


2 years? Modern paint. 10 years with linseed oil paint.


niall Y said:


> so repainting is a priority. I've been looking a the price of the linseed -oil paint and I can't really justify spending so much WHAT.... £139 A TIN!


But that'd be enough for several acres of bargeboard! Price; about twice that of modern paint but about twice the coverage, 3 to 5 times the lifespan, no primer or undercoat, much easier and quicker to apply. In other words very much cheaper in the long run.


niall Y said:


> Bearing in mind decorators in the past made their own paint, how difficult can it be? So, with boiled linseed at £12 'ish for 2 Litres and a Kilo of black pigment about £ 13. then even adding in the cost of a glass muller. I should be quids in.


Have a go! Should be able to find some old recipes on line. I've got a book of them I'll have a look.
The only problem is you won't know if it's any good until 5 or more years have elapsed to prove its durability
PS we've just about finished a 16 big window (maintenance) job with less than 1 litre paint (£41.50) and about £5 worth of putty and raw oil (as primer where needed). Fairly confident it will be good for another 10 years at least, but with occasional inspections for any problems - e.g. loose putty.


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## niall Y (14 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> A lot of people make the lead assumption but it seems that the linseed oil paint, not lead content, is the main issue.
> 
> Yes it doesn't look as bright and shiny as modern gloss but it certainly is OK in the rain!
> 
> ...


Hi there I would have thought that,there must be some benefit from lead based paint, otherwise you wouldn't still be a able to use it on historic buildings, By 'you' I mean licensed contractors, rather than us plebs. If it was deemed as effective, surely non-lead linseed-oil paints would be specified, instead.

I'm warming to the idea of making my own paint though I think I will include some Terebine to assist drying. i'm aware from having used Artists oil paint that colours can dry at wildly differing rates, depending on the pigment used.

Re the barge boards, they aren't the only bits that need painting I have a couple of gates where the paint has disappeared where knots are - despite me having applied knotting. For some reason knotting solution doesn't seem to work for me anymore!
Niall


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## Adam W. (14 Jun 2022)

I made mine, it's quite easy and very cheap compared to the commercial stuff.....Making Oil Paint.

It cures faster if subject to UV or plain old sunshine, which is free at source.


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## Jacob (14 Jun 2022)

niall Y said:


> Hi there I would have thought that,there must be some benefit from lead based paint, otherwise you wouldn't still be a able to use it on historic buildings, By 'you' I mean licensed contractors, rather than us plebs. If it was deemed as effective, surely non-lead linseed-oil paints would be specified, instead.
> 
> ......


The thing is nobody knows if a paint is going to last for, say, 15 years until 15 years passes, so the ideas evolve slowly by trial and error and a lot of guesswork.


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## Marischal Ellis (14 Jun 2022)

You maybe interested that Linseed oil used to be used exclusively in the fishing industry were the plain look (or tar) was all there was. Used (almost exclusively) in Norway to very good effect. Was the mainstay of joiners giving something a rub, glazing beads or tool handles. Boat hulls were scraped down ever year before recoating. Glazing bead or a tool handles. Painted boats came about as bigger harbours were use due to the bigger harbours being dirty from oil, grease and so on. Varnish not a good alternative.


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## woodieallen (14 Jun 2022)

I am, as I have posted before, 100% against linseed oil paint. Yes, I do know how to put it on thinly. And I do know that it takes forever to dry. And I do know how badly it attracts aka feeds mould and fungus. I have an outside building where I 'bought' into the hype re linseed oil paint and it's one of the biggest mistakes I've made.

Delighted to say that I managed to get rid of most of it and have now put on a proper paint. No mould !

Found an old can lurking in the shed and took great pleasure taking it down the tip.


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## Jacob (15 Jun 2022)

woodieallen said:


> I am, as I have posted before, 100% against linseed oil paint. Yes, I do know how to put it on thinly. And I do know that it takes forever to dry. And I do know how badly it attracts aka feeds mould and fungus. I have an outside building where I 'bought' into the hype re linseed oil paint and it's one of the biggest mistakes I've made.
> 
> Delighted to say that I managed to get rid of most of it and have now put on a proper paint. No mould !
> 
> Found an old can lurking in the shed and took great pleasure taking it down the tip.


AllI can say is that my experience so far says exactly the opposite!
In fact a great relief - the only problems I've had have been with modern paint and I've been worrying about the current job for sometime!
When I was doing a lot of sashes I used to ali prime them and leave the painting to someone else. Then if anything went wrong he'd get the blame.
PS I did get flecks of mould on a door but they washed off easily. Surprised - it hadn't happened before and it might have been due to using a different brand of raw oil which someone gave me half a tin of.


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## gregmcateer (15 Jun 2022)

And now I'm proper confused  !

I've used linseed oil paint on my porch and it was definitely easy to apply, BUT I've needed to clean and re apply in less than 5 years and now, about 2 years further on, it's faded and most annoyingly, mould keeps appearing. 

Any advice on getting rid of the mould very very welcome!!


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## Jacob (15 Jun 2022)

gregmcateer said:


> And now I'm proper confused  !
> 
> I've used linseed oil paint on my porch and it was definitely easy to apply, BUT I've needed to clean and re apply in less than 5 years and now, about 2 years further on, it's faded and most annoyingly, mould keeps appearing.
> 
> Any advice on getting rid of the mould very very welcome!!


Quick wash down with soapy water and a sponge, then washed or hosed off with clean water.
Were you using the Allback stuff or something else?


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## gregmcateer (15 Jun 2022)

Thanks for the quick response, Jacob. Yes, the allback stuff


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## Jacob (29 Jun 2022)

Paint job finished.
This was the last of them and the worst, being a bit inaccessible.
But it wasn't too bad. Didn't look very bright but everything in good order bar a bit of mastic and an inch or so of putty.
10 years or more since painted last after installation.
10no of these @ 14' . 6no at 6' . One round one.
The whole job took about 3/4 litre of Allback paint. No undercoat beyond a bit of raw linseed on some bare patches.
In other words very cheap, no problems and a great relief. Should see me out!






Sitting scaffold on tile roof - old mattress free from Facebook - not bad nick, no p*ss stains, could be a keeper!
Sheet of cheap 1/2" ply.
No breakages!


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## davethebb (29 Jun 2022)

I have just read this thread and thought the document reference below might be of interest.



Linseed Oil Paints and Mastics: Applications and Limitations


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## pgrbff (30 Jun 2022)

davethebb said:


> I have just read this thread and thought the document reference below might be of interest.
> 
> 
> 
> Linseed Oil Paints and Mastics: Applications and Limitations


Nice. I have been using burnt sand mastic for years, i hate modern synthetic sealants.


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## davethebb (30 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> Nice. I have been using burnt sand mastic for years, i hate modern synthetic sealants.


Do you have any tips for me? I have a very old property and will be resealing the windows and doors to the brick work and want to try and use burnt sand and linseed oil.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

davethebb said:


> I have just read this thread and thought the document reference below might be of interest.
> 
> 
> 
> Linseed Oil Paints and Mastics: Applications and Limitations


Interesting about how paint fails and I've seen it often - waterlogged wood under pristine paint surface. Still blames the wood for paint failures. I blame the paint (alkyd) and my experience so far confirms this. Wood is just as good as it ever was OTBE.
He's quite wrong about linseed oil paints being difficult to apply and labour intensive - quite the opposite it couldn't be easier, unless you make the mistake of trying to lay it on thick like alkyd paints, in which case it will run and skin over.
Also they _don't_ have a tendency to skin in the can if you do the normal thing of shaking the tin after putting the lid on. In fact they have very long shelf life but will need a good stir if left for a year or more - I use a cheapo kitchen hand blender.
Using linseed paint is very different and if not appreciated then you will have problems.
I've never heard of burnt sand mastic! Sounds unusable anyway as it can't be painted?
Haven't had the mildew effect except once on a door but it was easy to wash off and looked good.
After 5 or more years linseed paint may look a bit dull or faded ("chalky") but the wood underneath will be in perfect condition and any minor failures easily remedied - putty being the most likely.
P.S. He's also wrong about "microporous" paints. It's just a sales slogan. All paints are "microporous" until you get to extremes using bitumen, gold leaf etc.


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## pgrbff (30 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> In fact they have very long shelf life but will need a good stir if left for a year or more - I use a cheapo kitchen hand blender.


Whilst I agree generally with the rest of your post, in my experience, and I do tend to buy small, 500ml tins, even without added driers the linseed oil paint I buy skins over very quickly unless you manage to exclude the oxygen. You can lose quite a lot of the tin.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> Whilst I agree generally with the rest of your post, in my experience, and I do tend to buy small, 500ml tins, even without added driers the linseed oil paint I buy skins over very quickly unless you manage to exclude the oxygen. You can lose quite a lot of the tin.


Not my experience at all. I exclude the oxygen by putting the lid back on tight - which also meant taking it off carefully in the first place to not damage the edge. Then shake it up to paint the seal inside.


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## TRITON (30 Jun 2022)

Some info here





natural linseed oil ecologically green paint


Products and services of the Linseed Oil Co. (Scotland)



www.linseedpaintcompany.co.uk





I know this chap, I used to work at his cabinet-shop making arts&crafts furniture.
eg; Here's a nice big set of garage doors i made while there. Painted of course with the linseed oil paint.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

TRITON said:


> Some info here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is he still at it? I've emailed a couple of times with no reply and the web site is unchanged over a very long period.
How was the paint?


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## TRITON (30 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Is he still at it? I've emailed a couple of times with no reply and the web site is unchanged over a very long period.
> How was the paint?


Ross applied it. I just do the chopping of the wood bit.

He's quite into these type of things, researches the hell out of it, and i remember he bought one of those vibration paint mixing things, so far as im aware he still sells the paint.

It's only occasionally I run into him these days, but next time i do, and god knows when that will be, I'll try to remember to ask him if the company is still operating.

Try the phone number at the bottom of the link page. Thats his home addy, so will be the number. You might have to either wait ages for him to answer or if it goes to message leave something that sounds enthusiastic


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## pgrbff (30 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Not my experience at all. I exclude the oxygen by putting the lid back on tight - which also meant taking it off carefully in the first place to not damage the edge. Then shake it up to paint the seal inside.


If the tin is half empty there is plenty of oxygen to start it setting up.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> If the tin is half empty there is plenty of oxygen to start it setting up.


Not enough if the tin is well sealed. Even if there was, once it's skinned over the rest of it stays liquid.
I've been using it for about 12 years now and not had a problem.


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## pgrbff (30 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Not enough if the tin is well sealed.


The chemistry I studied at degree level tells me otherwise, as does my past experience, but I use a different product.
I also open tins carefully, cleaning both meeting faces with a lint free cloth before I start work.
That is why these are available. I have never used them, but might have saved a lot of money if I had.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> The chemistry I studied at degree level tells me otherwise, as does my past experience, but I use a different product.
> ....


Well there you have it!
I've only used Allback.
Obviously it won't last forever but it does have a very long shelf life even after it's been opened (and well closed again).
The chemistry you studied at degree level should enable you to work out the volume of air required to oxidise a litre - you may be surprised!


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## pgrbff (30 Jun 2022)

davethebb said:


> Do you have any tips for me? I have a very old property and will be resealing the windows and doors to the brick work and want to try and use burnt sand and linseed oil.


I only have a phone with me at the moment, I'm away from home. I never did it for a living but was taught by a plasterer who worked for Historic Scotland and taught in the States too. As soon as I have a slightly bigger keyboard I'll put pen to paper. I bought, still buy, my burnt sand from Masonsmortar in Edinburgh. They may also have some info on their website.


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## TRITON (30 Jun 2022)

When using danish oil, i used to decant what was left into a smaller container till it reached the very top. then a bit of cling film on that touching the finish and screwed on a lid. Lasted for ages


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## woodieallen (30 Jun 2022)

gregmcateer said:


> And now I'm proper confused  !
> 
> I've used linseed oil paint on my porch and it was definitely easy to apply, BUT I've needed to clean and re apply in less than 5 years and now, about 2 years further on, it's faded and most annoyingly, mould keeps appearing.
> 
> Any advice on getting rid of the mould very very welcome!!


Blackfriar's Anti-mould. Then get some Zinser Cover Stain to seal it all in and apply a proper paint of your own choice. That is exactly what I did and very glad too. No mould.


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## woodieallen (30 Jun 2022)

pgrbff said:


> I only have a phone with me at the moment, I'm away from home. I never did it for a living but was taught by a plasterer who worked for Historic Scotland and taught in the States too. As soon as I have a slightly bigger keyboard I'll put pen to paper. I bought, still buy, my burnt sand from Masonsmortar in Edinburgh. They may also have some info on their website.


Yup...Mason's Mortar have an excellent website with a lot of information. It's very easy to apply but be prepared for some birds to take a linking to it.


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## woodieallen (30 Jun 2022)

Jacob said:


> Interesting about how paint fails and I've seen it often - waterlogged wood under pristine paint surface. Still blames the wood for paint failures. I blame the paint (alkyd) and my experience so far confirms this. Wood is just as good as it ever was OTBE.
> He's quite wrong about linseed oil paints being difficult to apply and labour intensive - quite the opposite it couldn't be easier, unless you make the mistake of trying to lay it on thick like alkyd paints, in which case it will run and skin over.
> Also they _don't_ have a tendency to skin in the can if you do the normal thing of shaking the tin after putting the lid on. In fact they have very long shelf life but will need a good stir if left for a year or more - I use a cheapo kitchen hand blender.
> Using linseed paint is very different and if not appreciated then you will have problems.
> ...


Jacob, as you're such an expert on everything, when are we going to see your fund of knowledge made available ? 

@davethebb...excellent article and thanks for linking to it. Refreshing to read something from someone who knows what they are talking about.


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## Jacob (30 Jun 2022)

woodieallen said:


> Jacob, as you're such an expert on everything, when are we going to see your fund of knowledge made available ?
> 
> @davethebb...excellent article and thanks for linking to it. Refreshing to read something from someone who knows what they are talking about.


Have you used the paint yourself?


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## Jacob (2 Jul 2022)

Trip down memory lane! (I used to be Mr Grimsdale)
Holkham Paints - Woodwork UK




__





linseed oil paints - Woodwork UK






www.woodworkuk.co.uk




I don't keep much of a diary and couldn't remember when I first hit on the subject. Turns out to be 2008. I've been using it and closely observing the results for 14 years.
A bit scary - seems like yesterday! Another 15 years and I don't expect to be here. At least I won't have to paint any doors and windows again! Except for touching-up light routine maintenance. That's what I need too.


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## pgrbff (8 Jul 2022)

davethebb said:


> Do you have any tips for me? I have a very old property and will be resealing the windows and doors to the brick work and want to try and use burnt sand and linseed oil.


I'm sorry I have taken so long to reply, a combination of having been away from my family since before Easter and having my mind on other things.
The first suggestion is to make a small hawk out of a scrap of thin ply about 6" square. I used a piece of dowel or broom handle as a handle. Two perpendicular upper edges of the hawk need a raised lip out of scraps of timber about 1/2" high to push against with what Marshalltown refer to as a tuck trowel. 
The sand and oil need to be mixed so that it has a damp sand consistency, use as little oil as possible at first then add a little more. If there is too little oil it dries dusty/crumbly but too much oil is also not good.
Decide the width of the fillet and choose your trowel width accordingly, you can use plasterer fine tools to help refine the shape but it is quite a delicate operation.
Both the brick/stone where the mastic will be laid need to be carefully primed with just the oil first quite lightly or it will spread, using masking tape can help with applying the mastic in a straight line but the oil application needs a gentle touch or it will spread and stain.
The mastic is placed on the trowel and it is picked up on the trowel by pushing it against the raised edge, it should stick to the trowel but again this is a very delicate operation and it will easily fall off. You then transfer it to the area between wood and stone as a fillet and press it home.
I cant over emphasize how delicate this needs to be, it really does take some practice, and getting the balance between sand and oil right will also take some practice.
I am by no means a professional but I have done a few windows over the years and was shown by an old-school master craftsman. 
I hope this helps a little, do ask if you have any questions, I will try to help. I haven't used Mason's mortar for some time but they were always incredibly helpful.


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## davethebb (8 Jul 2022)

pgrbff said:


> I'm sorry I have taken so long to reply, a combination of having been away from my family since before Easter and having my mind on other things.
> The first suggestion is to make a small hawk out of a scrap of thin ply about 6" square. I used a piece of dowel or broom handle as a handle. Two perpendicular upper edges of the hawk need a raised lip out of scraps of timber about 1/2" high to push against with what Marshalltown refer to as a tuck trowel.
> The sand and oil need to be mixed so that it has a damp sand consistency, use as little oil as possible at first then add a little more. If there is too little oil it dries dusty/crumbly but too much oil is also not good.
> Decide the width of the fillet and choose your trowel width accordingly, you can use plasterer fine tools to help refine the shape but it is quite a delicate operation.
> ...


That is really helpful guidance. I have undertaken a lot of lime mortaring but no this and the application of using the hawk etc. are very similar. Your guidance on the application of the oil to the brick work is very helpful. Many thanks.


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