# Wadkin BGS10…The rarest table saw Wadkin made. Full Restoration



## deema (27 Jul 2021)

I’m sure very few people will know of or have seen a Wadkin BGS 10 table saw. What’s so special? Well, the BGS10 is basically the much loved Wadkin AGS10 with a sliding table, a genuine cast iron slider that sits right up against the blade. This makes it far more versatile than the AGS10 which it is based on. Wadkin also made a Wadkin BGS12, which is its big brother, and also has a sliding table, however, the mechanism for the 12 is far different to the 10. The BGS12 is more common to find, but is still rare compared the the AGS10. They usual command a significant price premium compared to the AGS10 or AGS12.
There is not a manual in existence for this saw as far as I know, and there are less than 10 of these saws known to exist. There used to be a member in this forum, I’m not sure if he still visits who had created a register of all know saws. I have had the pleasure of owning one of these saws before, which I reluctantly sold for a larger saw a number of years back. I have been lucky enough to find another of these jewels, however it is at the moment in need of a lot of TLC to bring it back to its former glory.
The link below to the Wadkin library provides the sales literature for this saw, which is the only printed material I know of that does exist.



https://www.wadkin.com/archive%20pdfs/Wadkin%20BGS%20Panel%20Saw.pdf



Will I be keeping this saw? Unfortunately not, it will be sold when it’s completed, as a hobby, another member of this site and I keep our grey matter chugging by restoring old machines as we are both retired engineers.

So, if there is any interest in seeing how this saw was put together, I will document the full restoration process.


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## Spectric (27 Jul 2021)

It is always interesting to see how machinery was made in the past, stuff that was built to last and using substantial castings rather than folded sheet metal. It is all part of our industrial heritage and is a good measure of just how cheap and nasty some stuff is today.


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## Ttrees (27 Jul 2021)

We always enjoy your thorough write ups Deema.
I've been thinking of making a slider from an old tablesaw with a warped top.

Tom


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## Fitzroy (27 Jul 2021)

Can’t wait!


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## TRITON (27 Jul 2021)

Spectric said:


> It is always interesting to see how machinery was made in the past


Like precision ground tables that are actually precision ground flat, not precision ground to a concave


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## Jameshow (27 Jul 2021)

Wow 

Straight swap for a titan 10" table saw!!!

Better crack open the piggy bank!! 

Cheers James


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## MilesH (28 Jul 2021)

Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's


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## MilesH (28 Jul 2021)

Copy of the brochure without watermarks can be downloaded here:




__





Wadkin Bursgreen - Publication Reprints - Sliding Table Dimension Saw Bench Type BGS (10) | VintageMachinery.org






www.vintagemachinery.org


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## RobinBHM (28 Jul 2021)

it looks like a small PK


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## deema (28 Jul 2021)

OkiDoki, a refurbishment thread it is! The saw is due to arrive in my workshop soon from its present home. I've arranged for it to be palletised and collected as it is a fair stretch away from me. Once it’s arrived I will kick off the thread…….at the moment it’s a bit of a frankinsaw, I almost didn’t recognise it for what it is.…….it looks like it’s been the victim of a chain saw massacre……but like a Phoenix it will be resurrected back to its former glory.…..hopefully!!

Thanks MilesH for the info and updated list.

There may be a slight delay to the start of the refurb. As I’ve just bagged a cylindrical grinder which is due to arrive in my workshop in the next few days. The grinder will also be refurbishing when it’s turn comes!


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## Vann (28 Jul 2021)

deema said:


> ...So, if there is any interest in seeing how this saw was put together, I will document the full restoration process.


I'm always in for a Wadkin restoration thread (and I think Wadkin-Bursgreen machines count).

I'm off to buy snacks and beer for the show... 

Cheers, Vann.


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## deema (31 Aug 2021)

It’s been a while, well a lot longer than I had anticipated, however, the work has at least started. It has taken a while to find a suitable donor saw for the bits that are hacked about. First the ugly duckling picture,





She’s not very pretty at the moment, but underneath that globbed on amateur repaint and hacked up base is a saw of beauty. The lucky bit is that the devil with a welder only hacked around the fabricated base. The rest of the saw is actually unadulterated. So, the first step to be accomplished is to take the whole thing apart. Every nut and bolt will be removed and it will be totally stripped down. This IMO is the only way both to repaint and restore a machine.


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## deema (31 Aug 2021)

The strip down has been completed, all the parts are now ready for stripping down to bare metal. I haven’t documented stripping it down, I will show how it’s out back together, the karts will be nice and shiny and it will make it easier to photograph and show.
Anyway, it’s always interesting to see the original colour of the saw under the bits that weren’t removed last time it’s was painted.

just a couple of snaps…..the sliding table after initial removal. It has 4 runners acting agaisn’t hardened bars. Two of the pulleys have eccentric cams to allow them to be tightened to the bars. 








Almost there with the slider, just the last couple of studs to remove!


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## TRITON (1 Sep 2021)

In my humble opinion it would look a lot nicer in grey or grey blue like a PK.
With red lettering.


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## deema (1 Sep 2021)

So, everything is now apart, tomorrow I will post a photo of what it all looks like prior to being prepped for paint.
The donated base has been checked to make sure it’s a perfect which it is. I wasn’t absolutely sure that they used the same base, but they do, the dimensions and secure holes are exactly the same / align perfectly.





I am now left with a complete top half of a saw that I will be selling either as a complete unit or as parts if anyone is interested. I will start a new thread in the for sale section.

This is what came off, which is destined for the scrap bin.







A little bit of cleaning has started. The 4 rollers that the sliding table moved on are ‘special’. They are designed to come apart and care must be taken when removing them that you don’t lose the ball bearings, as literally they can come apart when you take them off. Below is the disassembled roller bearing. There is the main roller which incorporates a race, the two hubs, ball bears and metal shields.


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## Inspector (1 Sep 2021)

What was the reason for the base being hacked up so much?

Pete


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## MARK.B. (1 Sep 2021)

Always like to see old machines lovingly brought back to their former glorywill be watching as you do so The new owner will get something that with care will outlast his or hers grandchildren . Do you have buyer lined up yet or will you put it up on here ?.


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## screwpainting (1 Sep 2021)

Bliss! Please post loads of pics as you progress I think everyone loves these threads, I know I do.


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## deema (1 Sep 2021)

The reason the base was cut up and welded with support brackets etc was that at some point in the saws life, the owner decided to ‘up grade’ the motor and fitted a 100L frame 2.2KW 4 pole motor. This type of saw cannot accommodate a 100L frame, it will only take a 90L frame. Again for an unknown reason they fitted a 4 pole rather than a 2 pole motor. To achieve the required blade speed they had to accommodate a 1 to 2 pulley system requiring a large pulley on the motor. This required the motor to be moved away from it’s usual position. The net result was an awful lot of welding and effort to achieve a complete shambles. The bkade would only pivot around 20 degrees even with all the metal hacked out to allow the motor room to move. It could have all been avoided by fitting the right sized motor.


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## deema (1 Sep 2021)

There isn’t a designated owner for this saw yet. I will offer it in here if it hasn’t sold before it’s complete, when I do refurbish a machine they often sell when someone calls by and sees what I’m working on.


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## PhilipL (2 Sep 2021)

deema said:


> The BGS12 is more common to find, but is still rare compared the the AGS10. They usual command a significant price premium compared to the AGS10 or AGS12.



Until I sold all my workshop equipment a few months ago in a move to a flat I had a BGS12. Very substantial machine. I didn't really get so much interest in it when it was advertised, but it did eventually go to someone over in the west of NI.


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## wallace (8 Sep 2021)

I've always liked the BGS and even contemplated getting rid of my PK for one. I prefer the older version.
I dont think people realize what they are. I will have to check my stash to see what bumf I have on them.
That was certainly extreme just to fit a motor.


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## MARK.B. (8 Sep 2021)

Thank you, I will watch with envy as you bring her back to life


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## deema (8 Sep 2021)

Well, the parts are due back from the company that does the shot blasting, so progress will continue shortly.


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## deema (13 Sep 2021)

Firstly I must correct a wrong! I haven’t mentioned that the machine restorations I do are not a sole project. A couple of years ago a fellow member on here Sideways was looking for a machine for a local Men’s Shed and was interested in one of my machines. Anyway, he is a fellow retired engineer we became good friends and soon started working together. All of the restorations are now done together. He has brought a huge amount of experience and expertise to what we do, and I have learnt a lot from him. Between cups of tea, nattering, and generally enjoying each other’s company we do find time to do a bit of work!!
We don’t do this as a ‘commercial’ concern, so timescales are not a driver for us. It’s something that exercises out grey batter and helps to fund our next project. It means that we are able to take the time to do it to the very best of our skills and feel pride in every machine we revive for decades of further work. So please bare with us if the thread takes a little time to complete!!
Sideways has a trusty Parry’s price list from 1969 which lists the BGS10.





It actually adds to the mystery of how many of these were actually made, as unlike the other saws in the range AGS10,12,14 and the BGS12, which all have a stated price, the BGS10 doesn’t have a price against it.


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## deema (13 Sep 2021)

wallace said:


> I've always liked the BGS and even contemplated getting rid of my PK for one. I prefer the older version.
> I dont think people realize what they are. I will have to check my stash to see what bumf I have on them.
> That was certainly extreme just to fit a motor.


If you have any literature you can share that would be really appreciated. Info on this variant of the saw is very sparse.


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## deema (13 Sep 2021)

The parts are back from the shot blasters, and the next stage is to complete the preparation for paint which needs to be done very quickly. Shot blasted parts need to be painted as soon as possible after processing for the best paint adhesion. These saws have a hammered finish, that’s not the the well known Hamerite paint, but a formulated hammer finish paint that has to be spray painted, it cannot be brushed or rolled. Whilst the big bulky stuff was out being cleaned, the nuts and bolts and all of the small stuff is also started to be de rusted and cleaned back up using a mixture of electrolysis and mechanical means. There is still a little work to do to the handwheels and the plastic spinning handles. The bright work will have a coat of Metal Guard applied, which includes the nuts and bolts to help reduce rust in the future. All moving parts will be lubricated with either white grease, silicone or Liberon machine wax depending on what it is. This will add a further layer of rust prevention.
The photos don’t include all of the parts that make up the saw, the bits aren't that exciting yet!

















apologise for the saw dust that in the nuts and bolts box! I forgot to clean it out!! They will be blown off before assembly!


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## deema (13 Sep 2021)

The fabricated body of the saw inevitably has a few extra surplus holes, that will have been the result of bits bolted on by different owners. These will all be welded over, ground back so that its back to a smooth pure metal surface. I’ve seen filler used, which stays in place for a short time and then inevitably falls out leaving the owner very disappointed.


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## MARK.B. (13 Sep 2021)

Yes rust loves nothing better than freshly exposed steel so even a quick coat of primer will keep it at bay until the finish paint is applied 
Did the blasting reveal any hidden nasties ?.


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## deema (13 Sep 2021)

The castings are all very good, no occlusion or voids.


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## MARK.B. (13 Sep 2021)

Great stuff,considering that at least one of its previous owners was a bodger with less than impressive ability .


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## MilesH (14 Sep 2021)

deema said:


> ................ Sideways has a trusty Parry’s price list from 1969 which lists the BGS10.
> 
> It actually adds to the mystery of how many of these were actually made, as unlike the other saws in the range AGS10,12,14 and the BGS12, which all have a stated price, the BGS10 doesn’t have a price against it.



Hi Deema,
These are the comparative prices from the 1964 price list Wadkin BGS 10 restoration and modifications - Canadian Woodworking and Home Improvement Forum In the 1971 price list the BGS10 is listed as "Not Available". I think the BGS 10 became quickly out-dated, specification wise, by the BGS12, which didn't cost a lot more.....

Complete thread: Wadkin BGS 10 restoration and modifications - Canadian Woodworking and Home Improvement Forum

Another thread I started on OWWM Wadkin BGS (10) restoration and modifications - Old Woodworking Machines


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## wallace (14 Sep 2021)

Cracking stuff. Heres some stuff I found in my stash.

A Bursgreen catalogue






This is in a binder used by wadkin sales team


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## wallace (14 Sep 2021)

I also found a manual


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## deema (14 Sep 2021)

Thanks Wallace, that’s really interesting stuff. The info is for the BGS12, the big brother of BGS10, the saw that we are restoring. The table sliding mechanism is totally different to the BGS10.


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## deema (14 Sep 2021)

Hi Miles,
thanks for sharing your thread, really interesting. I’d love to see how your modification turned out. When I had one for myself as my everyday saw I tapped a couple of holes on the underside of the sliding table and fitted a wood extension that was rebated to allow it to pop up flush with the table. This gave me a sacricial wooden edge that I could cut to make it zero clearance on the slider side.

The slider on this saw is virtually nibble free. I think I’m going to put it on the mill just to straighten it fully up.

Wow, the price difference between an AGS and a BGS10 was huge, you could almost buy two AGS10‘s for the price of a BGS! No wonder they didn’t sell too many of them!


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## clogs (14 Sep 2021)

just gotta say, MORE PLEASE.....


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## MilesH (14 Sep 2021)

deema said:


> Hi Miles,
> thanks for sharing your thread, really interesting. I’d love to see how your modification turned out...................


 I haven't progressed much beyond the end of those two threads yet....... You've inspired me to get on with it again, though  Should I post my progress here or would you prefer I start my own thread? My 3D model of the BGS is slowly getting there, too.


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## MilesH (14 Sep 2021)

deema said:


> Wow, the price difference between an AGS and a BGS10 was huge, you could almost buy two AGS10‘s for the price of a BGS! No wonder they didn’t sell too many of them!


Indeed! And not that much cheaper than the BGS12 when it came out (1962?) I see that the price of the BGS12 went up by much more than inflation between 1964 and 1971 though.... 
1964 prices
Wadkin 10" AGS (3ph.) £115.00
Wadkin 12" AGS (3ph.) £164.00
Wadkin 10" BGS (3ph.) £214.00
Wadkin 12" BGS (3ph.) £252.00

1971 prices
Wadkin 10" AGS (3ph.) £173.00
Wadkin 12" AGS (3ph.) £232.00 
Wadkin 10" BGS (3ph.) N.A.
Wadkin 12" BGS (3ph.) £433.00


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## MilesH (14 Sep 2021)

wallace said:


> Cracking stuff. Heres some stuff I found in my stash.
> ..........................................................................................................


Interesting that in Fig. 6 they used an illustration of the BGS10 !!


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## David Young (15 Sep 2021)

Very interesting stuff. I have a BGS12 that I served my apprenticeship on, I've been using it now for almost 40yrs and my father before me. It's certainly needing new bearings for the sliding table. Has anyone fabricated anything to make it extract better. There's an attachment on my crown guard but it needs the under table extraction improved.


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## MilesH (15 Sep 2021)

Not much thought was given to extraction when they designed them, for sure! Here's one attempt at improving things on a BGS10


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## deema (16 Sep 2021)

The parts are all painted and we are now waiting for it to fully harden up before starting to assemble the saw. Unfortunately, a short delay is forced upon me. Doing a good deed and cutting my parents hedge I managed to get a cutter love bite. Sooooo trip to A&E and a big bandage but nothing missing and just a deep laceration. But, I’m not to use my hand for a few days.
For a quick update however, the photo is of the parts when they arrived back into the workshop.


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## MARK.B. (16 Sep 2021)

Ouchlets hope it heals up quickly so you can get back to work


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## screwpainting (16 Sep 2021)

Great thread guys,thank you.


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## David Young (16 Sep 2021)

Can't wait for your hand to health to see the next stage! You're certainly encouraging me to give a bit of TLC to my workshop machinery, it all works well but just needs a little pampering to keep them going.


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

Work has resume, well, I should say that Sideways has been working and ably hindered by Deema three fingers and one poorly finger! So, progress at least has been made. I would also like to also say that my photography is poor, I’m no David Bailey, and I’m disappointed with how some of the (read almost all) the photos have come out.
The first job was to remove all of the masking and to coat all of the machined and bright surfaces with Metal Guard. Everything is grease free, so it would have all started to corrode very quickly without something to protect it. We mask off all threaded holes and as required drop a tap down them if necessary.

First off, a schematic of how it goes together borrowed from the AGS10 manual. Most of it is exactly the same, just the sliding table that is different.


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

The paint has hardened up, and although still won’t have reached its full hardness is tough enough to work with.

Although all the bright work and machined surfaces are shiny and silver, the photos have come out making them look dull and grey. Not sure why and the paint colour isn’t showing correct, a bit washed out. I will try to do better on other photos.
All of the machined surfaces were masked off, I’ve found that on some original painted saws this was done and other weren’t. Ideally all bolted together surfaces should be free of paint. Paint isn’t very hard and will compress allowing the bolts to loosen.

The bottom of the main casting which bolts to the top of the fabricated lower body.





Top of the main casting




Some of the parts that go into the saw.



Underneath of the sliding table,.


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

First off, the two feet are bolted to the fabricated lower body. There are spacers (I’m not sure what else to call them) that are located at all corners. I am yet to see a need for them as the cast feet will hold the lower body ridged. If anyone knows the purpose I’d appreciate knowing..

The cast iron upper body is them bolted to the lower body. Each is bolted together with six bolts. There are taped holes for the bolts.








Four spacer collars and locking nuts that will be used to level and adjust the main cast iron table have also been added. The spacers have a castelation on the underside to allow them to be lifted or lowered when the main table is on top. This is different to the AGS10 tabke that just bolts straight onto the casting. The spacers and locking nuts are lubricated with white grease.


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

The shaft for the worm gear that tilts the blade is next to be added. The collar on the opposite end to the handle is first pinned to the shaft, then the bakelite washer before being inserted into the casting. The shaft is supported / runs in two bronze bushes, one at either end that are a press fit into the casting. In most cases we replace these buses as they are worn. You need to make a home made puller to get them out and they need to be reamed to 3/4” when installed. We often use sintered bushes when replacing them as they hold lubricating oil within their matrix.




The shaft slides through and then you add another Bakelite washer and a further collar that will lock the shaft in place. This is held by a grub screw. The worm gear is next and is pinned to the shaft. Often these can only be pinned successfully, ie holes all line up, in one orientation of the worm gear. It’s a nightmare if you don’t check alignment with a parallel pin punch or similar before tapping the rolled pin in. It takes a lot of getting out again! Don’t ask how I know!!


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## MARK.B. (23 Sep 2021)

Must be very satisfying to see it going back together again


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

We next turned our attention to the spindle. Over the years, they tend to end up with a distorted clamping face due to the nut being either tightened too much / not being taken off for a long time and gumming up making it hard to remove. A bar is inserted into a hole in the flange to allow pressure to be applied to the nut. It is this and bruises the clamping face.

The spindle originally would have been turned between centres, and ideally this is how it would be mounted on the lathe to touch up the faces. However, the centre holes in the spindle are often damaged / corroded. We mount the spindle in a collet Chuck and clamp on the bearing journals to ensure we get the spindle running true to the axes of the bearings. The collet doesn’t damage the journals.
You can see how much runout / bumps there are in this spindle, which is typical.

The distortion also affects the recessed area (second video), so you have to skim all of the clamping faces






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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

This is the spindle after the faces and outside of the flange have been skimmed to clean them up. I will show the runout we achieve by doing it this way when it’s mounted in the saw.

The inner face of the flange I skim a fraction lower than the outer clamping face. You want the blade clamped by the outer faces and not just in the centre. Any crud on the blade / imperfections if this isn’t done will cause the blade to be only clamped at the centre. The blade will have more ‘wobble’ and not be driven properly / liable to slip.


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## deema (23 Sep 2021)

So this is how the saw looks at the end if the day.


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## David Young (23 Sep 2021)

Hi Guys.
This post is fantastic, you've encouraged me to sort out my rumbling spindle bearing and refurbish the rest of my BGS 12
Can you pass on the paint details please.


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## Sideways (24 Sep 2021)

Spray finishing is a must. Very much better than brushed....





Etch primer first on the aluminium nameplate.


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## wallace (24 Sep 2021)

On pre bursgreen machines I found it strange that castings were filled and painted after the machine was assembled. Have you noticed that on wadkin Bursgreen machines.
What is the RAL of the paint, 6011?


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## deema (24 Sep 2021)

I haven’t found any vintage of AGS saw to have the casting filled, normally if a hammered paint was used on a machine the castings unless there was a large void were left just fettled. Equally, the logo plate was also just a single colour, rather than picking out the lettering with a contrasting colour.


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## MilesH (24 Sep 2021)

deema said:


> ................................ Equally, the logo plate was also just a single colour, rather than picking out the lettering with a contrasting colour.


On the ones I've seen with original paint work, the lettering was highlighted in silver. (see pic) Difficult to imagine that they would have left the nameplate a single colour!

What's the serial no. of this one Deema? I'd like to add it to the list.


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## MilesH (24 Sep 2021)

MilesH said:


> On the ones I've seen with original paint work, the lettering was highlighted in silver.........


An easy way to achieve this effect is to just cut back to the casting and use micro-abrasives to achieve a polish on the letters. Looks far better than using silver paint too!


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## deema (24 Sep 2021)

Thanks Miles, that’s really interesting. 
I’ve literally restored nearly 3 figures of AGS saws and without exception in the UK those with original paintwork have had fully painted name badges. I have three sat in the workshop at the mo. Waiting for TLC, they are original paintwork and again all are fully painted. I wonder if export machines were different? The name badge is aluminium so, your suggestion of cutting it back would bring out the lettering. When it’s sold I will ask the next owner what they prefer.


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## MilesH (24 Sep 2021)

My assumption was that any name plate without highlighting of the lettering had been overpainted but I could be wrong, maybe they weren't consistent. If you look at the brochure for the BGS though, you can see the lettering highlighted in silver in the illustrations in that.


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## deema (24 Sep 2021)

A little progress made today before a new addition to the family, my second grand daughter decided to make an entrance to the world. Sideways has bit family stuff for the next week so progress will be slow for a while.

Saw Spindle.
This is probably the trickiest bit to assemble. I’ve certainly got it wrong on more than one occasion. Schematics below show how they go together. The first is an exploded diagram. Item 8 sits inside item 7. It is a locking collar that is pulled against item 7 by a bolt and stops the entire assembly moving inside the casting. You need to move the entire saw spindle in and out of the casting a little bit to align the saw blade with the riving knife. Getting this back together is the tricky bit!








The original bearings which I can only find exact replacements for on the continent at exorbitant prices I replace with SKF or similar 6203 bearings and a couple of shim washers to make up for the protruding inner race. Shim washers are precision shims in the shape of a washer. The only reason for the spacing is to ensure the bearing remains inside the casting when the spindle is moved to its furthest forward position. The original bearings had this ‘packing’ built in. The bearings are identical in specification / performance otherwise.


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## deema (24 Sep 2021)

These are the bits. When taking it apart everything just unbolts. You need clam shell type bearing pullers to get the bearings off.

This has been apart before and put back together by someone who didn’t know how to do it. The inner collar had been ‘spiked’ in place by a centre punch. They didn’t understand how to assemble / set it up. Anyway, a quick skim of the inside removed the dimples.




The thread on the back of the spindle had been damaged when the spindle had previously been taken apart and the nut and locking collar are missing. The spacer is orientated correctly for how it goes back. If you put it the other way around you will have to take it all apart again!
I first slip the two shim washers on the spindle, warm up the bearing to 90 degrees and then slip it on the spindle. If you are really lucky it will go on by hand. If not you need a press preferably to push it all the way home. There is a temptation to ‘hammer’ them home but if you do you can indent the race which will cause the bearing to fail prematurely. Pressure must only be applied to the inner race, and not the outer.





The spacer and inner collar are next added. The inner collar has a small grub screw temporarily inserted. This needs to protrude sufficiently to catch on the spacer but not enough to catch on the casting when the spindle assembly is inserted back. The grub screw holds the inner collar in place and correctly orientated for assembly. The second bearing is then heated up and slipped on. Grease in these bearings has a working temperature of just over 100 degrees, so warning them up to 90 degrees does not harm them. Warming them up causes them to expand and enable them to be slipped on much easier. There are proper bearing heaters for this purpose.

The second bearing is pushed down such that the spacer is just touching both bearings. It must now be ‘clamped‘ by the bearings.

The damaged thread I chased back and restored / modified to a 5/8 BSW fine thread (14 TPI) it was originally a square thread 14 TPI. I made a new nut.

I was about to make the locking collar when the phone rang and my afternoon in the workshop ended on a happy note. Here is the spacer started.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The spindle is now finished with the locking collar added. The set screw locates into a Dimple in the shaft ti secure it in place. the locking collar stops the spindle moving when it is being ‘tapped’ to align with the riving knife.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The spindle assembly is pressed into the main casting. It’s important to align the hole / grub screw in the spacer with the hole in the casting through which a bolt will be inserted. This is the tricky bit. The spacer collar can rotate whilst being inserted. Once the spindle is in place, you will be able to see the grub screw through the hole for the bolt. Now the extremely tricky bit. The grub screw needs to be removed and a bolt inserted. The locking collar that the grub screw ican rotate / slide preventing the bolt from being inserted. If it does…..apart from a lot of frustration you have to take everything apart again and start from the very beginning. When this happens, I replace the bearings oth fresh new ones again as they can be damaged by taking it apart. If all goes well the screw and a washer are inserted. These are what lock the spindle in place in the casting.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

Now to see how we have done. I expect to see a total run out of less than 10 microns, I.e. zero on my gauge. This spindle is great, with no discernible run out.





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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The final part for this casting ps assembly is to add the quadrant gear that the worm gear reacts with ti raise and lower the blade. This has two pins and two bolts holding it on.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The spindle casting (I should call it the slide bracket) attaches to the Trunion bracket by the Side Bracket Pivot Pin. This is a tap in fit which is then secured by two grub screws that locate into two machine recesses on the pin. I though initially that the pin for this machine had been modified, it’s not like the standard AGS pins. This one has a hex head which is really useful for orientateing the flats for the grub screws. The AGS pin has a machined dome. However, looking at the other machines highlighted in the thread, it’s the same hex nut on the other machines. I’ve just popped the grub screws in and nit tightened them down in the photo.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

I should have mentioned, that before attaching the Slide Bracket, it’s best to pop in the two stop screws


. These are usually square headed bolts that stop the saw blade being raised too high or dropping too far into the table. The stop for lowering the blade is difficult to fit if nit put in beforehand. Each has a lock nut to lock them off when they have been set.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

Finally the Racked Quadrant for Canting is fitted. Again this is two pins and two bolts. The pins usually need gently tapping into place. All 
mating surfaces are given a spray of standard white grease……not high performance white grease, this stuff use gums up a machine.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The assembly can now be gently put into the machine and the end caps screwed on, again white grease to all surfaces. Be very careful lowering in the assembly, the cant quadrant rack can get damaged otherwise.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The rise and fall assembly can now be put together.





First of all, the two bronze bushings need checking. There is one either end of the casting.




We check them with internal micrometers and replace if they are worn. Internal pullers are needed to remove the bushes, and the newly pressed in bushes need to be reamed to size.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

The worm is first pinned to the shaft, then the thrust bearing, we clean and relubricate the bearing. The assembly just slides into the casting and a new split pin which the handle locates on is added. This also stops it coming back out.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

There is a custom grub screw that holds the rise and fall assembly into the trunnion casting, it’s located on the side of the casting. It’s usually ‘interesting‘ to get out when disassembling a saw. It has to be removed befire anything can be removed from the saw.

The rise and fall assembly slides in and them needs winding to allow the worm to pull the assembly fully home. The grub screw is inserted and locks everything together.


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

There are 4 studs in the main table, which I put in / take out using double nuts. A nut is put on the stud, then a second. The two are tightened up against each other. The top nut can then be used to tighten down the stud, or the bottom one to remove it..


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## deema (29 Sep 2021)

To finish the day, I out the table loosely onto the saw. This is what it now looks like. Sideways should be back soon so progress will hopefully get faster.


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## Sideways (29 Sep 2021)

As you can all see, he's perfectly capable even with a gammy hand. Doesn't need me at all, however chores are done and I'm looking forward to a natter, so I'll be back on the team tomorrow


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## deema (30 Sep 2021)

Today we milled the sliding table edge and verified that the slot in the table is true. The edge that runs againt the blade was milled true to the slot. It was slightly out. The realignment didn’t take out every single blemish in the table edge, there was just a slight witness mark left in one spot. I’ve posted a few videos of progress in the thread, I’m not sure if they play OK?

To check the slot we clamp the table down on the milling machine bed, and with a clock fixed, run the table past it. This will show any wear in the slot and also allows us to align the sliding table for milling the edge. The total deviation was 10 microns, this is created by there slight wear at the start of the slot closest to the user which you would expect. However, it’s so small to make it negligible.





Unfortunately the video of the check is too large to upload to the site. However a short video of the milling isn’t.




Your browser is not able to display this video.


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## Inspector (30 Sep 2021)

May I ask if there is a particular reason you are using a small diameter cutter over a larger one? Table travel?

Pete


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## Sideways (30 Sep 2021)

In a nutshell, yes.
The shape of the underside of the casting dictates how the table can be clamped and consequently the edge to be cut overhangs on the inboard or outboard edge of the milling table. The table travel limits then don't leave room for a large cutter.
A second pragmatic reason is that Deema has a 10mm HSS cutter that lost it's tips in an unplanned skirmish with some weld hardened steel. The side flutes of the cutter are as new so it's the current goto cutter for edge milling thin work like this


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## screwpainting (1 Oct 2021)

Bloody excellent stuff guys, that is looking fantastic,


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## Stokes&co (2 Oct 2021)

It’s looking brilliant gents. Not sure if you have it but I just saw on Instagram that LHW machinery in Essex have a complete bgs 10 with all the bits that’s just come in from a university!


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## deema (27 Oct 2021)

The great thing about being retired is that time is no longer your mistress. It’s been a while, but we are back doing a bit on the saw again. Sideways has the best photos, and hopefully he will add to the thread.

Wadkin has a great reputation for its quality, but even they did not always make things to the best quality. On this saw, after assembling the trunion system and looking at aligning the riving knife to the blade we noticed the appalling machining of the riving knife mounts. For what ever reason it was clear that these had somehow managed to miss the machining operation, and they were at every angle apart from coplanar with the saw blade mounts. Who ever had been using this saw before could not have mounted the riving knife and had any success.






Hopefully you can see that the surfaces are, using a technical term, higeltypigelty! There was nothing for it, we had to disassemble the saw, mount it on the mill and machine these times be coplaner with the saw blade mounts. This was achieved by aligning the saw spindle and the 1.5mm had to be machined off before we needed up with a true surface. You just never know what you will find when you buy a machine.

After machining, the saw was reassembled and the motor was mounted with new belts and pulleys.


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## Sideways (28 Oct 2021)

And yes, these show how badly machined the mounting bossss for the splitter were ...





The entire spindle assembly was removed, shimmed and clamped on the end / edge of the mill table so that we could clock the spindle flange flat in both planes to 20-30 microns over 2 inches. That should be better than 0.2mm at the edge of the blade.









Then the bosses were milled to the same plane. Flat is essential so that the splitter is neither tilted nor twisted, but height isn't very important here as there is sideways adjustment in the spindle and a custom spacer for the splitter can be milled if necessary.










Once done, everything was cleaned up, regreased and reassembled.

I wonder what bodges the previous owner(s) of this saw had to use to get the splitter to line up with the blade. Or if they simply didn't bother... this wouldn't have been easy to fix without the mill.

Next on to the DOL starter. Neither of us are impressed by cabinets full of holes from poor electrical installations so all the original holes were welded up and dressed before painting and just two new mounting holes drilled and tapped M5 to suit a new box. The box can now be easily fitted and removed with just an allen key from the front.











One little trick learnt along the way. When knocking out the grommet holes, fit the cover onto the box tightly first. It strengthens the edge of the back box and helps prevent splitting if the knock outs are more solid than they should be. Of course you can't buy a back box on its own as spare.. 
These were fine but if in doubt, drill them out with a ground tooth holesaw. I keep a 20 and 25mm for plastic only so they are always razor sharp and make a clean hole.


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## deema (28 Oct 2021)

We use Bootlace and ring terminals on the wire ends when connecting them up. It’s important to use the correct crimping tools for each to ensure a good connection. A poor connection causes heating of the connection. Cheap crimping tools are IMO next to useless, they don’t create the correct level of pull out resistance. If you just terminate twisted wires into a screw terminal, the screw not only damages the induvidual wires, but causes them to harden and they will fatigue and break over time. Equally the bund,e of wires can move and create a loose connection / come out. A lose wire at best will cause the saw to stop.

We typically use SY cable to connect the motor to the starter and for the power cable which has a braided outer protective cable that encircles the cable under an insinuated sleeve. It’s a bit like armoured cable, but not as armoured and is very flexible. We ground the braided wire so that should anything penetrate the wire, which can occur in a workshop, it will be grounded by the braided sleeve and cause a trip in the circuit. A protective earth is also connected up which runs within the cable.

The motor starters we use include an over current relay which we set for the full load rated current of the motor. You can get starters without this relay, which have just a contactor. However, should the motor stall, say you get a piece of wood jammed in the slot, or start cutting before the motor has fully got going without the over current relay you will very quickly burn out the motor and in most cases have a fire.


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## Sideways (29 Oct 2021)

We've fitted this saw with a new TEC 2.2kW single phase motor. The terminal box has two separate capacitors for start and run. This type has higher starting torque than single "permanent split capacitor" motors.
The TEC models are easy to wire to spin in either direction, but are pre-configured to turn clockwise as viewed from the front end of the spindle. That's what we need so the wiring at the motor end is very easy. 
The capacitors have a foam wrap to stop them from rattling about in the terminal box.






Old nail varnish makes a cheap and easy to remove threadlocker.

Here are the ground tooth holesaws I mentioned in the earlier post. Great for drilling out plastic boxes.


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## wallace (31 Oct 2021)

Smashing job. I prefer to see original buttons on machines but this would have probably had one of those square MEM horrible boxes.


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## MilesH (2 Nov 2021)

Very thorough work on this Deema & Sideways. Well done.

I've made some progress on my own one. Finished working on the sliding table and mounted that back on. Next task is to mill the rebate in the fixed table for my sawplate modifications....


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## MilesH (2 Nov 2021)

wallace said:


> Smashing job. I prefer to see original buttons on machines but this would have probably had one of those square MEM horrible boxes.



I hate the MEM ones too! As Deema's machine is early 60's it could have been one like this though:


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## Sideways (2 Nov 2021)

That would have been nice ! Sadly as you can see looking back to the very first photo of the thread, the one we inherited was nothing worth keeping.
Where you have interesting, vintage controls as Miles has pictured above, it is nice to keep them. If they fall short of the safety standards of more modern controls, that can often be overcome through the use of a VFD so that only low voltage connections are needed to the original start and stop switches.


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## MilesH (3 Nov 2021)

deema said:


> Wadkin has a great reputation for its quality, but even they did not always make things to the best quality.


I haven't worked on Wadkin machines but I've never had a very high opinion of the workmanship on the Wadkin Bursgreen machines.....
The latest problem on my BGS is that the sliding table assembly is out by 15 minutes of arc with the saw spindle (1mm over 227mm)......... I need to find out what went wrong and how to fix it. The alignment of the table assembly is fixed by two dowels.


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## Vann (4 Nov 2021)

wallace said:


> ...I prefer to see original buttons on machines but this would have probably had one of those square MEM horrible boxes.





MilesH said:


> I hate the MEM ones too!...








While I agree those square tin box Memota DOL starters are quite boring, I have a soft spot for the earlier ones such as these Memota Series 4 boxes (these are two I was doing up last year). The RH box is cast-iron, while the LH box is die-cast.






Or better still the even older Series 1, 2 & 3 "Darth Vadar" models.






And their Memrex isolating switches such as this 315-A 15amp "Ironclad" switch - in a cast iron case.






Cheers, Vann.


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## MilesH (4 Nov 2021)

MilesH said:


> I haven't worked on Wadkin machines but I've never had a very high opinion of the workmanship on the Wadkin Bursgreen machines.....
> The latest problem on my BGS is that the sliding table assembly is out by 15 minutes of arc with the saw spindle (1mm over 227mm)......... I need to find out what went wrong and how to fix it. The alignment of the table assembly is fixed by two dowels.


I swapped the rise and fall casting with the one on my AGS and the alignment of the saw spindle with the sliding table assembly is bang on. So, either there is an error in the boring of the BGS casting or, more likely, the casting has warped post machining. Ironically, I had decided against using the AGS casting on the BGS before because this itself had warped, making it almost impossible to set up the slide mechanism on the trunnion bracket properly. So, I need to get the AGS casting ground flat to take the twist out. The BGS casting can be used on the AGS because the alignment is not critical. The table on that is free to be set to the alignment of the saw spindle. So, if you find errors, check the castings.........


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## deema (8 Nov 2021)

A little more progress. The sliding table is now fully assembled.
The assembly consists of a carriage which has two hardened and ground bars attached to its sides upon which the main table runs via 4 bearings. In the picture below on the left is the sliding table, and on the right the carriage withe the bars attached.






On one side, the two bearings are fixed and locate on spindles that go through the sliding table. The spindles come out within the slot on the upper table surface and have a slot in them for a screw driver. This is used for tightening the nut that holds the bearings onto the spindle. The fixed spindle is shown below.




On the other side, the bearings are held by cap screws, and the bearings are offset to create a cam which allows the hex nut that is an integral part of the bearing to be used to adjust the bearings to grip the carriage ground rods. 



The table with all of the bearings loosely in place. Practically, I secure the two fixed bearings, put the carriage oni top of it and then mount the two adjustable bearings. The stops, which are the red pieces of plastic shown mounted below stop the table being able to be removed from the carriage (pushed off when in use). Hence, you need to put the carriage in place and then adjust the bearings to grip it.





withe the carriage mounted and the bearings adjusted to facilitate a smooth travel with no play the rest of the parts can be added.





Two studs are added to the carriage, these hold the entire assembly to the saw. They fit into slots in the table saw and Bristol levers secure it in place. The Bristol levers allow the whole assembly to slide away from the blade.




Two cast iron bosses are a friction fit and just tap into the carriage. The square headed bolts are used to adjust the sliding table position to the blade. I will show how this is done when we get to that stage.

Finally the table stop of lock is bolted on, and the cover is added over two of the bearings. This has wipers attached to the clean the bars. The saw was missing them and I’m currently making new ones.


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## deema (8 Nov 2021)

The saw was missing the grib that takes out anybokay in the rise and fall of the blade. We made a replacement, the dimples locate into the bolts and prevent it dropping out.




The grib is adjusted using 3 square headed bolts that have locking nuts on them. I start with the blade wound to it’s highest setting, adjust the top square headed bolt such that the saw will rise and fall smoothly, just a fraction back from it gripping and making rise and fall difficult. I them work my way down each of the bolts until each is adjusted in the same way. The rise and fall will now have a little resistance when rising and falling the blade. If it’s ‘free and easy’ they aren’t tight enough. A good coating of standard white grease is used as a lubricant.


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## deema (8 Nov 2021)

The Bristol levers were taken apart, cleaned and made ready for paint. They will get an undercoat and a black top coat.


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## baldkev (8 Nov 2021)

Looking great


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## Gremmy (7 Dec 2021)

Did you guys manage to get this fully finished off?


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## Sideways (7 Dec 2021)

We've both had a lot of priority interrupts from the real world over the last few weeks. We squeeze a few hours in when we can. The saw is close to complete and we HAVE been taking photographs along the way. I won't promise a date or I'll jinx us, but we will finish the build log and show the saw cutting


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## wallace (8 Dec 2021)

So looking at the slider their is no adjustment of the slider in relation to the blade. Lovely job by the way.


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## deema (8 Dec 2021)

The slider is adjusted to the blade with two stops. When the table is pulled away from the blade for blade changing etc, it returns to a location next to the blade that is set by the two stops, one at each end. You cannot set the height of the sliding table, rather you set the fixed table to the slider. It is mounted in 4 adjustable mounts. You then set the blade vertical and tilt stops to align with the tables.


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## Chip shop (8 Dec 2021)

That looks fantastic. Top job. Now hurry up and get it boxed off as there's a Dominion BXA sitting in my workshop just waiting for the magic touch


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## Sideways (8 Dec 2021)

It IS nice to have such an encouraging audience 
Chivvied on by you all, we moved the job along some more today.

The first table to refit is the complete slider assembly














It lifts into place and must be aligned to the blade. This is done with a pair of square head bolts at the front and rear of the table. When the table is in working position, the square heads bear against sections of the casting. You can just see the bolt immediately above, screwed through a rounded pillar and with a lock nut and the bolt head both facing right.

The proper alignment needs the bolt head to be just out from the pillar so we had to turn 3mm length off the heads to achieve alignment and move the locknut to the opposite side of the pillar.

These are "new" adjusting screws - the originals were too damaged.

Once the sliding table is aligned, the right hand fixed table is installed next.

The fixed table has height adjusters at each corner so that it can be set to the same plane as the sliding table.




Each corner is composed of a threaded tube, with screwdriver slots in the lower end and a lock nut which we prefer to put on top. It's difficult to reach but the locknuts might work underneath too.



The tubes screw into the corners of the casting and are adjusted like jacks to level the table.






On the two outer corners, holes have been cut / cast in the casting to allow access to adjust the jacks





A little allowance must be made for the locknuts which pull the tubes upwards when they are tightened.
There's not a lot of clearance so tightening the locknuts while the table is in place would be tricky.





Once the tubular supports are levelled and locked, the table drops on for hopefully the last time. The table has studs that drop through the four tubes, and washers and nuts are fitted from below to lock the table down tight.






There are a couple of mm of clearance between the studs and the holes that they fit. so the fixed table can be aligned laterally as well as made flat to the slider.

Levelling the fixed table involves some repeated measurement and adjustment until you get it right. Here we're about 0.2mm high so we'll finish the levelling off tomorrow.

The measuring device is from Oneway, Canada. Not the best clock but the cast frame is excellent for this job, and for other tablesaw and planer / thicknesser alignment tasks.


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## Sideways (8 Dec 2021)

Also on today's list was renovating the handles for the two handwheels. Here you see the BGS parts on the left and a slightly different design spindle left over from a Wadkin AGS I think.





The one on the left was totally seized and the spindle needed to be warmed with the blowtorch before it could be tapped out.




The handle bores were cleaned out using scotchbrite and an improvised holder.




Spindles were both rusty and needed filing, scotchbrite and finally the wire wheel to get the rust off. 




Protect with metalguard and refit using new circlips.




As a preview of the next steps. A new spacer and double washer have been fabricated so that we can correctly align the riving knife to the blade.







We also decided that the rarity of the BGS10 merited a new rip fence. We do have an original fence for the saw, but they are quite a lightweight part fabricated from two lengths of sheet steel folded and welded together..
It has taken a good number of hours machining, but the BGS will be given a much more rigid fence machined from a single length of heavy wall steel tube.




We'll add posts on both the fabrication of the fence and on the assembly and adjustment of the rip fence. In the meantime, it felt a bit tame just to paint it, so we spent a couple of hours polishing the new fence instead


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## deema (9 Dec 2021)

Today, a fair amount of my time was taken up playing with a new toy! A digital height tower that floats on air and capable of 2D measurements to 1 micron accuracy. Its now ‘old‘ technology, but still made, however for me although secondhand but placed on a Grade 0 granite surface table it means we can take our measurement capability to a new level. The photo shows the tower being useed to measure the cam that is part of the fence locking mechanis.





Before I can start assembling the fence mechanism, there are a few parts that need to be replaced. The original Cam is….well……horrible. The locking lever was missing and the cam pivot pin is worn. the Cam has both an offset pivot hole as well as a precise location for the locking lever to be attached to it. The height tower made the measurements very easy.

The photos show the original worn parts and the new replacements along with the schematic of the parts.

I need to order a new round knob for the locking lever, unless Sideways has any in his stash.


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## Inspector (9 Dec 2021)

Well you have one upped us all now. Never played with one of those. CMMs and portable CMMs (Faro arm) where I worked but none of those. Best I have is a small granite surface plate and a few height gauges (manual and digital). 

Pete


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## Ollie78 (9 Dec 2021)

This is a great thread, I would love to have a machine like this and just keep it going and in such nice condition. I am glad it is possible to restore them so nicely.

Ollie


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## Sideways (9 Dec 2021)

I have some miniature Aramith billiard balls in my box. The best brand and they can be polished to maintain a great shine. Easy to drill and tap on the lathe. They make great machine knobs so a new owner could have a choice of bright red or a good yellow, but I've no standard black on hand unfortunately.
Maybe we should put a colourful one on as a placeholder while we order some proper black ones ... 
I think the full size red ones look pretty good on my drill


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## MilesH (10 Dec 2021)

Here's an updated list of surviving BGS10s. We're now up to 18. The latest one is proof that they were still made in 1965.


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## deema (10 Dec 2021)

Next job is to assemble the fence. The first thing is to assemble each cast iron end and then to join them to the fence section.




Taking the locking casting first, and assembling items 29 ~ 32. This is the plunger that locks the fence at this end, the fence has two mechanisms that lock the fence to the bars at either end. Most Wadkins Ive come across are only adjusted to lock at the hook end, presumably because it’s not well know that there is another lock. It’s advisable to take apart the plunger, clean it and grease it with white grease. They are aften full of saw dust and / or rusted up.

To take the plunger apart / reassemble we out it into a vice to compress the spring inside, which is a very strong spring and knock out the split spring pin.








When reassembling there are three holes, in the outer casing, but only two that line up. These are the ones to pop the pin through.





Next the transmitting crank is assembled. Items 10,11,14 and 15. The casing has to be the right way around, and item 14 has the slot for a screw driver to the left in the schematic picture.




This is then popped inside the main casting and the straight solid pin driven into place to hold it. Sometimes the pin can be loose in the main casting and not hold. It’s not an issue if this is the case.






The cam is then put into place and the solid pin tapped through. This must be a press fit.

The plunger is then slipped into place and the retaining grub screw and locking nut added. However don’t tighten these up.







We now slip the casting on to one of the bars and adjust the lock. This is done by pressing the locking handle all the way down, and testing to see if the casting is locked. Alternatively, you might not be able to push the lever down, or indeed get the assembly onto the bar. In either case you need to remove the plunger and turn the screw (item 14) which is behind the plunger after first ensuring the locking grub screw item 15 in undone. This is an iteration process, and when you have a good lock when the lever is down, and it’s free to move when the lever is fully up, tighten the grub screw item 15 and then secure the plunger and lock off the retainer. At this stage the locking lever will not stay in the upright position. The spring in the plunger is to create a positive cam action In the locked position.

A new micro adjust to re okace the old one is always required. They get mangled through the fence being pushed without it being disengaged. This is the original and the new ine we have made for it. The old one has been ‘tinkered’ with to try to get it useable by a previous owner.


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## deema (10 Dec 2021)

The hook end is simpler to assemble, 




The two nuts on the locking bar are of the locking type. There should also be a small spring which is occasionally missing but is important as it allows the hook lock to pivot without bending the locking bar. One of the nuts is captured by the pivot, and the other is tightened so that the spring is in tension but nit compressed too much.




This is then oinned to the hook by a split spring pin.


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## deema (10 Dec 2021)

The final part can be a real pain! First bolt the locking casting into the fence body. Place the long spring into the locking bar then you have to thread the locking bar that is now attached to the hook through the fence and get it to go through the item 11, the transmitting crank.









You the secure the hook to the fence with a single bolt. However, the long spring (item 12) is very powerful, and you need to adjust it so that you have to push the hook to get the bolt in, but nit have too much tension on the spring. The double nuts (item 13) are used to set the spring. This often requires a number of iterations, and getting the locking bar threaded into the hole isn’t easy!

Finally you pop item 10 into the end which attaches to the locking rod and screw it on slightly. The fence is now assembled. You put it onto the bars and adjust item 10 to lock the hook end. We normally tap the end with the palm of our hands to text the locking.

I will go through adjusting the fence to the blade when we actually put the fence on the saw.

This is what the fence looks like for this saw.


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## Sideways (10 Dec 2021)

And yes, it is a tiny billiard ball on the end. Prepared on the lathe with a centre drill, tapping drill and a short (about 6mm deep) counter bore snug to the outside diameter of the shaft. The thread, cut directly, ends up well inside the body of the knob making for a robust fit.


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## Sideways (10 Dec 2021)

Today, we also had to finish levelling the right hand, fixed table.
Another iterative process. We must have lifted the cast iron table on and off nearly 20 times by the time we finished.

Initially the tubular jacks at the 4 corners are adjusted with their lock nuts loose.
The Oneway gauge is used to get the fixed table level with the slider at both the front and back edges.
A good straightedge is placed across both tables and the outer edge of the fixed one wound up or down until everything is parallel. A flashlight emphasises any gaps. Changing the inside or outside jacks tilts the table so you have to sneak up on plane and level by adjusting everything in turn.

Once done, the position of the jacks were marked and they were kept in position as the locknuts were tightened.

Tightening the locknuts pulled the jacks upwards by 6 thou, evenly all around.
1 thousandth of an inch is 25.4 microns, so 6 thou is near to 0.3mm high.
To return everything to level, we remove the table top and corner by corner slacken the locknut , turn the jack a measured amount to drop it then retighten the locknut. It took several iterations but the jacks were finally level turned to about 2 to 3 o'clock from the initial positions.




We called it a day when we got everything levelled up to better than 2 thou / 0.05mm


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## deema (14 Dec 2021)

The saw is now almost complete, with the two tables levelled to each other and coplaner, they now need to be alined to the blade. There is a small amount of lateral movement possible in the fixed table, which is firstly aligned to the blade and then the locking nuts added to secure it down.
I have a gauge that is made by igaging which is very good for aligning tables with the blade. Due to variation in a blade, it’s best to select and mark a single point on the blade (rotating the blade) and only measure on this point. Otherwise, the alignment will only be as good as the blade is flat.







With the fixed table aligned to the blade, the moving table can then be aligned. The two adjusters are used to both set alignment and also how close the the two tables are.


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## deema (14 Dec 2021)

There are four stops that need to be set to control both the limits of the rise and fall as well as tilting.
The rise is the most important, if this stop isn’t set or set too high the spindle pulley / belts will rub in the underside of the table. This can cause the motor to stall when starting and everything can get very exciting if the saw doesn’t have an over current protection relay in the starter.
The rise stop acts upon the rack









It’s usually a square headed bolt with a lock nut. There is often a slot on the opposite end to the square head to aid setting. Raise the spindle whist turning the spindle until is stops turning, we then back it off and set the stop.

The lower stop is directly under the spindle, we wind the spindle down as far as possible without anything catching.





With the lower stop set, a quick check the blade will lower below the table.


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## deema (14 Dec 2021)

The tilt stops are on either side of the saw and come through the case with lock nuts. The photo below has one of them highlighted.











Setting these two stops also requires the blade to be checked that it doesn’t catch the table. The extension of the spindle can be adjusted if necessary.


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## deema (14 Dec 2021)

The final part to setup is the fence. The manual for an AGS10 asks for the fence to be locked next to one of the slots, and adjusted for a 1/32” runout away from the blade along its length on the table. We set the fence using the OneWay gauge.
To adjust the run out of the fence, the single bolt above the claw on top of the fence is slackened, the fence ‘tapped’ and then retightened. Sometimes, it’s a really easy thing to do, other times it can literally take hours!! With a bit of maths we calculated the required run out along the distance of the blade. Again we measured using a single place on the blade.








The fence could be set parallel to the blade, however we only ever set them with a runout as per the manufacturers instructions for safety. It’s too easy for the fence to ‘pinch‘ whats being cut and eject it if it’s set parallel.


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## deema (14 Dec 2021)

The saw would have come with accessories, one of which is a mitre gauge, which we have an original Wadkin which will be included with the saw. Sideways has started to make a fixed 90 degree fence for the sliding table. This is bolted and pinned to the table. It is removable and has two locations where it can be bolted down to the table.
First job was to run a tap down the mounting holes in the table.







The parts have been cut to size and drilled for the mounting bolts. 



Checked for squareness to the blade.



There is still a bit of work to do to finish it.
However, mocking it up highlights that it provides 14” of cut with the blade raised to its maximum.


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## Adam W. (14 Dec 2021)

Superb.


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## rwillett (15 Dec 2021)

I'm trying to think of a better word than superb and failing 

A wonderful thread to follow.

Thanks

Rob


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## T.H. (18 Dec 2021)

Nice work  ! Great to see older cast-iron machines like this Wadkin restored. They really are quality engineering. I’m discovering this with my recently purchased Dominion DAA which is undergoing a bit of TLC.


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## deema (18 Dec 2021)

Nice bag, I think the dominion DAA is an absolutely fantastic PT. The tables are on pins and need lifting vertically off carefully to avoid damaging the cast iron pockets. A number I’ve seen have the pockets damaged due to people not realising. The pins are shown on the photo below





Edit, I’m now wondering if the photo is of the pins! There are two studs for sliding the fixed table back away from the blade and two hidden pins. Anyway, just beware.


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## T.H. (18 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> Nice bag, I think the dominion DAA is an absolutely fantastic PT. The tables are on pins and need lifting vertically off carefully to avoid damaging the cast iron pockets. A number I’ve seen have the pockets damaged due to people not realising. The pins are shown on the photo below
> View attachment 124497


Hi Deema. Yes, I knew about the locating pins thankfully. The tables are off at the moment but due back on later today actually. You’re obviously ‘in the know’ about these machines. Would the two shafts in the gearbox for the Brammer belt & drive-chain pulleys have oil seals? Refilled the box up to shaft level yesterday & getting a slight oil leak. I’ll post some pics later. Thanks


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## deema (18 Dec 2021)

No probs, probably best to create a new thread so that everyone with one can pitch in too


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## T.H. (18 Dec 2021)

deema said:


> No probs, probably best to create a new thread so that everyone with one can pitch in too


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## deema (18 Dec 2021)

A little bit of progress on the fixed 90 degree fence, Xmad is now causing distractions!

There are two sets of bolt down and alignment pin holes for the fence, one of which provides the maximum cut stoke length of the sliding table, and the other the maximum stoke length for full depth of cut. in each position the fence has two bolts and two pins to locate it, the pins providing absolute accuracy for fence position enabling it to be removed and put back on with no setup. The new fence needs to be extremely accurate if the pins are to be a slide fit into the table holes and for the slot and fence to be perpendicular to each other, if they arnt the table would need to be calibrated for one or the other which would be a real pain for the end user.

The pins required are 1/4” diameter, which are a good slide fit into the table. We chose to use silver steel for the pins which comes ground and highly accurate.

To measure the pin centres we used slip gauge blocks, these are highly accurate precision ground blocks of a given length that you ‘ring’ together and build up a given length.




Placing two pins in the holes we were able to accurately measure the centres. The positi on shown is exactly on 9” between centres, the other position is not, it is a fraction narrower. That’s a bit of problem to resolve!

The fixed part of the fence is made from stainless steel. We think it may be in a damp environment (garage / shed) so, anything that helps prevent corrosion can only benefit who ever ends up buying it. Standard angle section, is never precisely 90 degrees, so the fence side has been milled to be exactly 90 degrees.

We thought the best way to drill the fence for the pins was to use the gauge blocks to setup the distance between them. Using only measurement tool always produces the most accurate results.





A reference block was set against the first pin which was popped into the first hole that was precisely drilled, the clock set to zero against this reference block. The stack of slip blocks added and the mill table brought back so that the clock read zero again. The reference block allowed the clock to be set in a flat surface rather than on the round of the pin.

The interesting bit is when we checked that all the drilled holes aligned to the bolt holes and the pin holes in the table, which they did. The fence is a snug fit into the reference pin holes in the rear position, which it was setup and drilled for, but won’t fit onto the forward position pin holes! They are slightly narrower. The fence is also perfectly aligned to the slot in the table, ie 90 degrees to it.





When the holes in the table were drilled by Wadkin, one set they got wrong and it probably wasn’t checked, either that or the pins were not a good fit. So we have we think two options, file a slight flat on the inside of one of the pins, this won’t affect the alignment of the fence as the pins will be fixed solidly into the fence and the ‘slop’ isnt in the plain that affects the fence alignment. Alternatively to ease one of the holes in the table. This isn’t easy, it can’t be drilled or reamed we don’t think to elongate the hole, it would need to be very carefully filed.
we also found that the bolt holes in this forward position are also not on the same centre line as the pins, which they are for the rear mounting position. This will need the bolt holes in the fence slightly opening up. Would welcome any alternative suggestions?


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## Inspector (18 Dec 2021)

Would making a second fence be a dumb idea? One for each position. Lots more work but then you can make them as close to perfect as you can. 

Pete


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## deema (18 Dec 2021)

Inspector said:


> Would making a second fence be a dumb idea? One for each position. Lots more work but then you can make them as close to perfect as you can.
> 
> Pete


No such thing as a dumb idea the only danger I can think of is that the user may try to fit the wrong fence and crack / chip the table around the pin holes. You can see some chipping around the forward bolt holes where I’m guessing the original fence was attempted to be fitted……i


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## Inspector (18 Dec 2021)

Yup you can never underestimate the stupidity of the future user. Well you are down to drilling out the hole in the table and putting in a freeze plug or other method to hold it and re-drilling. For what it is worth I've seen CNC operators mess up holes on parts and all they needed to do was make sure the tools were sharp and in the right magazine locations so Wadkin getting one out of tolerance isn't a real surprise.

Pete


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## deema (7 Jan 2022)

Today was my first adventure back into the workshop this year. 
The problem with the secondary mounting position for the fence in the end was an easy fix. I decided to use a carbide end mill to rebore all four pin holes to just under 7mm which allowed me to reposition the offending pin hole without drill drift. One done it was just a matter of reaming them to precisely 7mm. I bought a length of 7mm silver steel and turned down shoulders on two new pins so that the 7mm pins fit into the 1/4” holes in the fence. I will probably silver solder them into place.

The sliding table was stripped out of the saw, mounted on the mill and aligned with the mitre groove so that everything would be aligned. The secondary pin holes were not in align with the bolt down threaded holes, and I was able to move them closer to alignment, but not fully, as I had around 0.3mm of possible adjustment around the centre of the existing holes.

Milling the 4 holes




Reaming each hole.





Fence now fits correctly in both positions on the pins.


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## wallace (8 Jan 2022)

I must say the quality of finishing exceeds that of wadkin themselves, I think you would of had a job for life back in the day.


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## Jitter (9 Jan 2022)

I thoroughly enjoyed reading through all of this thread. What great work you guys do and very interesting, your engineering skills and knowledge are obviously greatly needed to do a job like this properly. I have an old Wadkin Bursgreen UOS 18” PT, works really well although I think the feeder rollers are a bit worn because they slip often and mark the wood. Something I’d like to sort on the machine at some point although not sure what is involved at all.


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## stidy (10 Jan 2022)

MilesH said:


> Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's


Was the no. 5 "Ebay cracked tub" listed somewhere in the Cambridgeshire fens do you know? I bought mine from a scientologist out there, someone had welded the tub, quite well, and it all works very nicely, Mine is No.8 Stidy ( John Stidworthy) I wonder if they are the same one. Will sort out some photos. 


MilesH said:


> Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's


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## stidy (5 Apr 2022)

MilesH said:


> Great! Look forward to this Deema. Here's my register of extant BGS10's


Mine, no. 8 on your list, is serial number BGS61232. It has a welded repaired tub, so might have been the saw formally known as no.5 eBay cracked tub. I also have friends in common with sion dovey in pembrokshire, that's another story....


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## MilesH (6 Apr 2022)

Hello John,

Sorry to miss your post in Jan. I stopped getting notifications, for some reason. Thanks for your serial number. It does sound like yours is the same as No. 5 Here are the pictures that I saved from eBay of No. 5


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## rjsww (12 Apr 2022)

deema said:


> A little progress made today before a new addition to the family, my second grand daughter decided to make an entrance to the world. Sideways has bit family stuff for the next week so progress will be slow for a while.
> 
> Saw Spindle.
> This is probably the trickiest bit to assemble. I’ve certainly got it wrong on more than one occasion. Schematics below show how they go together. The first is an exploded diagram. Item 8 sits inside item 7. It is a locking collar that is pulled against item 7 by a bolt and stops the entire assembly moving inside the casting. You need to move the entire saw spindle in and out of the casting a little bit to align the saw blade with the riving knife. Getting this back together is the tricky bit!
> ...



Hi Deema

Im currently working on my newly acquired AGS10 and I’ve found this thread to be extremely helpful! I have a few different questions to ask but wondered if there is a better place to ask them?

thanks for all your help so far, even though you didn’t know it!

Ryan


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## deema (12 Apr 2022)

@rjsww If you start a new thread about your AGS10, everyone I’m sure will help with any queries you have including Sideways and I. Good luck with the project.


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## rjsww (21 Apr 2022)

deema said:


> @rjsww If you start a new thread about your AGS10, everyone I’m sure will help with any queries you have including Sideways and I. Good luck with the project.



thanks deema, will do!

I was hesitant as I didn’t want to give anyone any more AGS10 PTSD 

cheers


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## Zacharyhope (20 Oct 2022)

Hi @deema
Can you describe the process for blade changing on the BGS please? I've got an AGS 10 and removing the fingerplate provides plenty of room for the bar to hold the spindle. I've been to view a BGS (serial started 60-) and could see the same holes in the spindle but no way of accessing them apart from going underneath or very close to the blade from the back! Some saws appear to have an extra hole in the fixed table, I assume for this purpose, I wonder if this was a later modification or a DIY mod?
Many thanks, Zac


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## deema (21 Oct 2022)

@Zacharyhope The saw has the same spindle as the AGS10, however there is no way of accessing the spindle lock hole. This is a good thing, as excess force in this hole distorts the flange which is why we always skim the flanges on AGS10. To get the blade off, you use the old timers trick. Just place a piece of wood on the surface of the table stuck into the teeth of the blade, this will stop it rotating. To tighten, same trick, but it doesn’t need to be much more than hand tight, the nut self tightens.

These are lovely saws, buy it. They are as rare as hens teeth. Perfect fir a small shop.


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## Zacharyhope (21 Oct 2022)

deema said:


> @Zacharyhope The saw has the same spindle as the AGS10, however there is no way of accessing the spindle lock hole. This is a good thing, as excess force in this hole distorts the flange which is why we always skim the flanges on AGS10. To get the blade off, you use the old timers trick. Just place a piece of wood on the surface of the table stuck into the teeth of the blade, this will stop it rotating. To tighten, same trick, but it doesn’t need to be much more than hand tight, the nut self tightens.
> 
> These are lovely saws, buy it. They are as rare as hens teeth. Perfect fir a small shop.


Brilliant, thank you! Had a slight scare when the nut undid itself while testing it...the blade kept spinning on the arbour for an unbelievably long time! I can see why brakes were introduced!

Is it possible to mill or grind the fixed table? This one has a noticeable hump in it next to the blade, the other side of the mitre slot seems dead level though and the sliding table is perfectly flat. I'd like to make sure there are options if it became an issue later.
Thanks for the help, Zac


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## deema (21 Oct 2022)

Generally you would have a table milled, it has a ‘rougher’ surface than ground. This is good, it’s less friction when putting stuff th rough the saw and it helps to hold a bit if wax. It’s only metalwork machine tables you’d generally consider for grinding. 
Getting a table machined needs fairly big mill, not something I fit instance can do on my Bridgeport clone mill, it’s too small. I’m not in touch with the latest machining costs, but about five years ago I’d expect to pay around £250 to get a table machined up.

I have read of people in here simply sanding away humps and bumps, using a straight edge ti guide them. Cast iron is ‘easy’ to remove material from by hand, so this is an option, but not one I’ve tried myself,


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## Zacharyhope (23 Oct 2022)

Pleased to say that @ezhope and I are now the proud owners of BGS 60151. Is it ok to keep posting on this thread or shall I start a new one? We're likely to have some questions about setting it up properly, the blade isn't perpendicular to the sliding table and upon taking both tables off have discovered a gap between the trunnion and frame (the photo of the restored one doesn't have this gap). Excuse the caked on sawdust, does anyone have any tips for removing it?!


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## MilesH (28 Oct 2022)

I've updated my list of extant BGS10 dimension saws, to include Zachary's.


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## Zacharyhope (28 Oct 2022)

Thanks @MilesH, we briefly met up in London a couple of years back while collecting the 1959 AGS 10, it's exciting to join the BGS club!
I've cleaned up the insides a bit and have got the sliding table as square to the blade as I can, just need to level the fixed table to it now and fit the new DOL starter.

One thing I'm slightly confused about is the tilting part of the frame. It looks like a later style casting with the bosses for both the rise/fall riving knife which are not used and the fixed knife, which are in use. Not sure how to describe this but there is a piece of the tilt mechanism on this frame which protrudes past the channel in the tub when tilted to 45° and this stops the table from sliding, is this normal? It'll slide if it's drawn out by 15mm or so.
I've attached a photo with an arrow pointing to the part but will take some more later.
Thanks


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## MilesH (28 Oct 2022)

Yes, I remember well now!

On the BGS10 the end of this part is truncated to avoid the conflict. The parts you show in your first picture also seem to be later than the origin date of your saw. It seems that most of the internal parts have been replaced with those of an AGS from post 1962.


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## MilesH (28 Oct 2022)

Look forward to following your progress with this, Zachary!


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## Zacharyhope (28 Oct 2022)

Yes it seems to align very well now I've closed the gap. I did wonder if the innards had been replaced as they didn't look age specific to the date on the plate. We might end up carefully sawing off those bits as using the slider to cut mitres is something I'd like to do. If it's already been messed with I'm not so worried about modifying to make it more usable


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