# dovetail jig that doesnt need router?



## mike s (17 Jan 2011)

i am a complete novice when it comes to joint jigs and this is probably a really dumb question but are there any good dovetail jigs that dont need a router?
it would be cool to cut them with a hand saw if their is a jig that allows that
links and pics would be nice


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## Alf (17 Jan 2011)

The Veritas Dovetail Saw Guides spring to mind. There may be others, I don't know; never used one.


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## Dodge (17 Jan 2011)

The old Arcoy dovetailing jigs didnt use a router but used the power from a drill instead. They sometimes still come up on a certain auction site.

Rog


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## mtr1 (17 Jan 2011)

In a similar vein to the one Alf linked to, you can make one from perspex with just saw kerfs in, so you just mark out once, if you have a lot to do.


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## Steve Maskery (18 Jan 2011)

I cut mine with a couple of jigs on the bandsaw, one for the pins and one for the tails.
S


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## CroppyBoy1798 (19 Jan 2011)

Dodge":19kfx3uc said:


> The old Arcoy dovetailing jigs didnt use a router but used the power from a drill instead. They sometimes still come up on a certain auction site.
> 
> Rog



Wolfcraft made a 'drill' version too, seen a second hand one recently for sale, still in its package......after looking at it briefly I put it back swiftly, very 'gimmicky' :/


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## Dodge (19 Jan 2011)

CroppyBoy1798":gc5acuj6 said:


> Dodge":gc5acuj6 said:
> 
> 
> > The old Arcoy dovetailing jigs didnt use a router but used the power from a drill instead. They sometimes still come up on a certain auction site.
> ...



Yes I agree, the arcoy was the original, and somewhat over engineered original which wolfcraft copied with their tin foil version! :lol: :lol: 

I still have an old arcoy jig on the wall in my workshop for sentimental value!

Rog


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## Steve Maskery (19 Jan 2011)

The problem with the drill-powered ones is that an electric drill has a max speed in the region of 2K whereas a router spins at 20-odd K. It makes a big difference to the quality of the cut.
S


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## Jacob (19 Jan 2011)

mike s":f7febtbt said:


> i am a complete novice when it comes to joint jigs and this is probably a really dumb question but are there any good dovetail jigs that dont need a router?
> it would be cool to cut them with a hand saw if their is a jig that allows that
> links and pics would be nice


If you don't want to use routers and jigs why not go traditional; mark-up, saw and chisel, or just freehand with no mark-up?
It's not that difficult but you would need to do a few samples before being sure of accuracy.


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## OPJ (19 Jan 2011)

Alf":z8z04js7 said:


> The Veritas Dovetail Saw Guides spring to mind. There may be others, I don't know; never used one.



I'm sure that David Barron also produces something very similar to these (perhaps a little bit cheaper) but, I don't know what his website is, if he has one for his tools? I remember seeing them at Yandles, two-years ago.


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## Wildman (7 Feb 2012)

Steve Maskery":142mnigc said:


> The problem with the drill-powered ones is that an electric drill has a max speed in the region of 2K whereas a router spins at 20-odd K. It makes a big difference to the quality of the cut.
> S


no reason why a router cannot be used with the Arcoy, I have used a bosch on mine with excelent results, less tendancy to snatch like a drill due to the extra speed. I still use my arcoy and may even have a spare one someplace, must look it out and see. The advantage over cutting by hand is not only speed but the ease with which one can do blind joints on drawer fronts.


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## lanemaux (8 Feb 2012)

Don't wish to be too obtuse here , but is not the Veritas mentioned by our esteemed Alf really more of a guide than a jig? If a guide is what is needed after the initial layout is done , well , I just butt a piece of straight MDF to the layout line , fastened as may be expedient (pin nailed or double stick taped or clamped or whatever) and use the squared nature of the edge to guide a backsaw. To make a jig I would make something along the lines of a dovetail marker (2 pieces of MDF joined to form a right angle with my choice of DT angle on one edge ) and again clamp to piece and use as saw guide. when done just reposition. As long as layout is accurate it is pretty foolproof. For clearing out the bottoms , you guessed it , position MDF on layout lines and chisel out as usual . Final cleanup is the only time you get on the MDF with fine paring cuts. The straight and square edge supporting the flat of the chisel.


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## RogerP (8 Feb 2012)

OPJ":3hnn64bt said:


> Alf":3hnn64bt said:
> 
> 
> > The Veritas Dovetail Saw Guides spring to mind. There may be others, I don't know; never used one.
> ...



Here.


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## Jacob (8 Feb 2012)

RogerP":2w6ylgxw said:


> OPJ":2w6ylgxw said:
> 
> 
> > Alf":2w6ylgxw said:
> ...


If you going to go that close to doing them by hand in the normal way, why not go the extra step and do them properly? IMHO just another very expensive mad gadget.


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## bugbear (8 Feb 2012)

mike s":19jbpcac said:


> i am a complete novice when it comes to joint jigs and this is probably a really dumb question but are there any good dovetail jigs that dont need a router?
> it would be cool to cut them with a hand saw if their is a jig that allows that
> links and pics would be nice



Not really - but there have been many aids and gadgets for the various stages of hand marking, cutting and fitting dovetails, both online and in magazines.

BugBear


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## MickCheese (8 Feb 2012)

I'm with Jacob on this one. I still consider myself a relative novice, I have tried several jigs, gauges and bits of wood cut to the right angle but once I put all those to one side and just got on with cutting them I was surprised that I could get passable results after a relatively short time.

So I would say, practice on some scrap and then do them by hand. I was avoiding doing them by hand as I was nervous of the poor results I thought I would get, in reality they were quite good and they get better every time I do a set.

I found this quite useful. Very American but got some really good tips from him and after a while I quite warmed to him. 

http://www.thomasjmacdonald.com/media/category.php?cat=Tool-Box

Mick


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## foxhunter (8 Feb 2012)

Not a jig but I found it helpful in my early days. Trend were promoting it at one time.

http://www.templatesbynumbers.com/


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## Benchwayze (18 Feb 2012)

Dodge":2nxk2x9q said:


> The old Arcoy dovetailing jigs didnt use a router but used the power from a drill instead. They sometimes still come up on a certain auction site.
> 
> Rog



I have one still in its original box. I don't think it's ever been used. Complete except for a drill. (You'd need a proper drill, rather than a cordless.) I also believe I have some TCT cutter for this jig. 
It's gathering dust. 

But the best way to cut dovetails without a router is, dare I say it? With hand tools.


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## Dodge (18 Feb 2012)

Benchwayze":3fnvmwzw said:


> But the best way to cut dovetails without a router is, dare I say it? With hand tools.



=D> =D> =D> never a truer word said


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## Benchwayze (1 Mar 2012)

Justin.

Have a look at the post, 2 posts above yours! :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2012)

Wildman":iymrcvr2 said:


> Steve Maskery":iymrcvr2 said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with the drill-powered ones is that an electric drill has a max speed in the region of 2K whereas a router spins at 20-odd K. It makes a big difference to the quality of the cut.
> ...



I thought about this too Wildman, but the jig wasn't really designed for a router to spin the shaft on the handle-fitment. 
I suppose the bearing would be ok, but the shaft that goes into the chuck doesn't look to be engineered to the accuracy of a router cutter shank. For this reason alone, I never tried it! I have a set of TCT cutters for the Arcoy too, they are still in their wrappers! I also got hold of a complete jig on eBay, which when it arrived proved to have never been used. Don't know why I bought it really, and it's still unused. 

Good stuff was Arcoy, and for drawers up to 9" deep, the jig would still work, just as well as any other jig that cuts tails and pins in one. (ISTR Stanley-Bridges made a clone of the Arcoy.


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## Wildman (11 Apr 2012)

I think the shaft on the arcoy cutter holder is 1/4" and my bosch collet fitted fine.
PS 9 inches is enough for anyone :lol: :lol: :lol: 
I used mine for kitchen unit drawers and chest of drawers it is really quick and acurate, cuts pins and tails in one go and adjustable if you want to make them tighter/looser. I reall is the rolls royce of dovetail jigs, over engineered, maybe, could that be why they are still aound and in use after 50 years.


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## Benchwayze (11 Apr 2012)

Wildman":689seaa2 said:


> PS 9 inches is enough for anyone :lol: :lol: :lol:



You speak for yourself. My kitchen is gonna have 'deep' drawers. :mrgreen: 

If you say the shaft fits a 1/4" collet without any problem, then I might just take my Arcoy out of retirement. It will save me planting false-fronts onto through dovetails! 

Cheers.


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## adzeman (12 Apr 2012)

Still have my Arcoy dovetailer bought it new with the drill Drill wore out and could not get it repaired kept the jig for nostalgia Cut my dovetails by hand they get better every time you dou them


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## Benchwayze (12 Apr 2012)

Yes, Mike, 

I quite agree. Dovetails do get easier and better with practice. I like to cut dovetails with hand-tools too and I've had my share of practice at it. One day I might attain perfection, though I doubt it, and I still find the need to 'get my hand in' after a lay-off . :mrgreen: 

However, for the number of drawers I will be making over the next few months, at my age, I could be staring at the inside of a wooden box, before I finish! So for the utility jobs in the garage and kitchen, I'll use a jig. 

I believe that apart from appearance, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with a jig-cut joint. Dovetails on drawers spend most of their life hidden, (even from the person who opens the drawer), so I don't worry that my kitchen, garage and utility room fitments will have mere jig-cut dovetails. As long as I use the jig correctly, no problems. The joints will be better than the plastic jointing systems I might get with a kitchen from IKEA or similar suppliers. They will also be better than a poorly executed, hand-tooled joint. I think you might agree.

So these days, I reserve hand-cutting for those special jobs; and for making bookends! I make a lot of bookends of late..    
It's good practice. :wink: Cheers Mike.


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## Tony Spear (16 Apr 2012)

Jacob":16fa9ua5 said:


> mike s":16fa9ua5 said:
> 
> 
> > i am a complete novice when it comes to joint jigs and this is probably a really dumb question but are there any good dovetail jigs that dont need a router?
> ...



It's all very good for you Jacob - you're a professional woodworker and spend your time around tools.

Some of us are amateurs and don't have the time to mess around practising things whenever we want to make something!

Sure, I can make a reasonable hand cut dovetail, but for the time it takes, I'm better off using the Woodrat if I need to make a number of of them. Similarly with your obsession with hand sharpening - I don't do enough sharpening these days to get the "muscle memory" that you've spoken about in the past, so I use a basic Eclipse jig
(but I'm not going into the Kell jig scenario)!

BTW, Jimi43 appears to have found in a Boot sale, the perfect stone for you!


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## Tony Spear (3 May 2012)

Dodge":2inulojd said:


> Benchwayze":2inulojd said:
> 
> 
> > But the best way to cut dovetails without a router is, dare I say it? With hand tools.
> ...




That's as maybe, but we don't all have a 10 year old apprentice to cut ours for us! :mrgreen:


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## mrpercysnodgrass (13 May 2012)

Jacob is right, you don't need any jigs to make dovetail joints, you don't even need a guide, all of the dovetail on the finest antique furniture were cut by using the tails as a template. With a little practice you will be making good close fitting dovetails in no time at all.

Have a look at this on you tube, this guy shows how to do them very well: - 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ8fSSKn0Ls


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## Jacob (13 May 2012)

Tony Spear":2a7xlrxp said:


> ...........
> It's all very good for you Jacob - you're a professional woodworker and spend your time around tools.
> 
> Some of us are amateurs and don't have the time to mess around practising things whenever we want to make something!


Amateurs used to manage quite well without routers and DT jigs, and it's quicker and cheaper. Surely the whole point of being amateur is that you do have the time to mess about practicing?


> ...... Similarly with your obsession with hand sharpening - I don't do enough sharpening these days to get the "muscle memory" that you've spoken about in the past, ........


"Muscle memory"? I've never spoken of it, I don't even know what it means. 
Obsession? Well perhaps - but then sharpening is totally fundamental to so many tool users and has been for millions of years. It's the ability to sharpen a stone which gave us the "teeth" to dominate the world as we have done. 
It's really useful to have a quick and easy hand method, especially if you are pushed for time. it seems to have become a major obstacle for modern woodworkers.


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## Benchwayze (13 May 2012)

Jacob, 

As far as I understand it, muscle memory is what able bodied persons have; (And within limitations, disabled persons as well of course) it enables us to learn how to do most physical tasks, without thinking too much about it. Activities such as walking, running, cycling, driving a car, playing a musical instrument (properly); and cutting dovetails without marking out, but knowing you have the saw at the correct angle, just by feel. 

HTH :wink:


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## marcros (13 May 2012)

i hav just bought his book by chance- cabinetmaking, a foundation course. It seems very good, although I am only part way through.

Edit: this is quoting the John Bullar/youtube link


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## Benchwayze (13 May 2012)

I haven't seen JB's book, but I do have a lot of respect for his work. 
I do like the YouTube videos he does, mostly because there is a no nonsense, no mystique approach about his methods. 
He just gets on with it and cuts the joints. Much like Frank Klausz, whom I know has his critics over here. As he would say, "How more you practice, how better you get!" Muscle memory I suppose? 8)


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