# The Grammar Thread



## Suffolkboy (2 Jan 2022)

flying haggis said:


> View attachment 125711


Or correct punctuation seemingly.


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## Cabinetman (2 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> Or correct punctuation seemingly.


You sure?


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Jan 2022)

No need for the second comma.


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## loftyhermes (3 Jan 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> No need for the second comma.


It's known as the Oxford comma.


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## Pineapple (3 Jan 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> No need for the second comma.


I was taught that you should Never use a comma before "and"


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## Geoff_S (3 Jan 2022)

Pineapple said:


> I was taught that you should Never use a comma before "and"


Yes, I was taught that and then many years later I found out it was OK.

What a waste of an education!


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## WoodchipWilbur (3 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> ... my dad got me into a grammar school and redid them and passed them in a year,


Well... That's a pretty extreme example of parents "over-helping" with homework!


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## J-G (3 Jan 2022)

loftyhermes said:


> It's known as the Oxford comma.


... and is NEVER needed !!


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Jan 2022)

The Oxford (or serial) comma is the final comma in a list of things. There are occasions where a clause or sentence that doesn't involve a list reads better with a comma.


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## Garden Shed Projects (3 Jan 2022)

Incorrect punctuation is no joke!


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## J-G (3 Jan 2022)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> Incorrect punctuation is no joke!


Agreed - but who will move the posts to a new thread?


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## DrPhill (3 Jan 2022)

J-G said:


> ... and is NEVER needed !!


I know that, and I was taught it by my parents, William Shakespeare and Virginia Wolfe.


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## Yorkieguy (3 Jan 2022)

Re: Well, another day passed, and I didn’t use algebra.

I wrote the sentence without commas and the grammar checker stated this about the comma after ‘well’:

'After an introductory word or phrase, a comma is best’

And this about the lack of a comma after ‘passed’ and the grammar checker stated:

‘A commas is better clauses is better here’.

Ho hum...good enough for me.


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## Suffolkboy (3 Jan 2022)

Generally my punctuation/grammar is pretty poor. I just thought that sentence was dreadfully written and that that was ironic given that the joke was regarding a subject learnt in school. 

I'm sure if you look back through a few of my previous posts you'll see what a hypocrite I am.


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## Daniel2 (3 Jan 2022)




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## Pineapple (4 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> Generally my punctuation/grammar is pretty poor. I just thought that sentence was dreadfully written and that that was ironic given that the joke was regarding a subject learnt in school.
> 
> I'm sure if you look back through a few of my previous posts you'll see what a hypocrite I am.


"learned"


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## Yojevol (4 Jan 2022)

Pineapple said:


> "learned"


Learnt is correct. Learned is an adjective. So, (comma acceptable) I am now more learned because I learnt it from a dictionary, albeit an online one. 
Brian


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## ElizaTea (4 Jan 2022)

Yojevol said:


> Learnt is correct. Learned is an adjective. So, (comma acceptable) I am now more learned because I learnt it from a dictionary, albeit an online one.
> Brian


I’ll learn ya…


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## Cozzer (4 Jan 2022)

Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!
Same as starting every sentence with 'so'....
Same as inserting 'like' before every third word....
Same as not pronouncing 't's in words....

Same as...... but no. No more. I'm even winding myself up now!


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## J-G (4 Jan 2022)

Yorkieguy said:


> Re: Well, another day passed, and I didn’t use algebra.
> 
> I wrote the sentence without commas and the grammar checker stated this about the comma after ‘well’:
> 
> ...


What you obviously don't appreciate is that your grammar checker comes from a person/company whose first language is NOT English - they are regrettably from the other side of the pond!!

Rather than simply accept what a poorly educated 'follower of fashion' has to suggest I would recommend that you simply use your own intellect to determine the correct use of punctuation.

The 'sentence' you quote as coming from the checker - "_‘A commas is better clauses is better here’._" makes no sense (in English) on a number of counts - singular/plural mix being just one. 

The comma after 'Well' (in your original) is certainly to be preferred, it indicates that there is something coming which needs the attention of the 'listener' and prompts them to be more attentive. The comma after 'passed' immediately stops the flow of information which makes the statement dis-jointed when in fact what a 'conjunction' (and) is supposed to do is 'join' clauses.

I am often involved in the creation of Theatre/Concert programmes and am very often arguing the case for and against the use of a comma before a conjunction. There are occasions when it is acceptable but they are few and far between. One of the people who is also involved in the editing of the same programme text is even 'published' on the matter of the Oxford comma (which he insists should ALWAYS be used) but I still argue my case.


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## J-G (4 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!


Worse still, I've argued this point on other forums and been told that the correct spelling should be 'OV' !!!


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## MiTown (4 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!
> Same as starting every sentence with 'so'....
> Same as inserting 'like' before every third word....
> Same as not pronouncing 't's in words....
> ...


….or, ’Can I get a coffee‘.


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## Cabinetman (4 Jan 2022)

Yes it’s over there, are we all just getting too old? 
The one that always winds me up, and it was just about started by the BBC, nothing ever more is in the centre it’s always the epicentre, an epicentre is the point on the ground above an earthquake.
Yes I’ve tried my inadequate best with the commas. I work on the principle – perhaps wrongly that a comma is where you would take a breath. Ian


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## ElizaTea (4 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!
> Same as starting every sentence with 'so'....
> Same as inserting 'like' before every third word....
> Same as not pronouncing 't's in words....
> ...


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## J-G (4 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> Yes I’ve tried my inadequate best with the commas. I work on the principle – perhaps wrongly that a comma is where you would take a breath. Ian


That's by far the best starting point Ian - keep it up!


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## Geoff_S (4 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> Yes I’ve tried my inadequate best with the commas. I work on the principle – perhaps wrongly that a comma is where you would take a breath. Ian



My wife doesn't use commas.


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!



Get off of your high horse.


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Jan 2022)

Geoff_S said:


> My wife doesn't use commas.


I proof read some work for my daughter a few years ago (ironic, really - I have O level English and she was doing an English degree at a Russell group university) and I told her to try writing without commas then to read it and insert any necessary. It's surprising how few if any are needed.


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## daftdog (4 Jan 2022)

Beeing uneducated I only use full stops or Question marks am I wrong.?


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## Cozzer (4 Jan 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Get off of your high horse.



_Yes!_
That's another one, isn't it!
It's not as bad as "for free", though. 
It's either "free" or "for nothing"....


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## Cozzer (4 Jan 2022)

J-G said:


> Worse still, I've argued this point on other forums and been told that the correct spelling should be 'OV' !!!



Ye Gods....


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## stuart little (5 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!
> Same as starting every sentence with 'so'....
> Same as inserting 'like' before every third word....
> Same as not pronouncing 't's in words....
> ...


Same as 'to' after different.


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## HamsterJam (5 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Talking of grammar, have you noticed how many people are using 'of' instead of 'have' these days? It really irritates me!
> Same as starting every sentence with 'so'....
> Same as inserting 'like' before every third word....
> Same as not pronouncing 't's in words....
> ...



With apologies to our friends over the Atlantic - and don’t get me started on the use of Americanisms in the UK.


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## Limey Lurker (5 Jan 2022)

J-G said:


> ... and is NEVER needed !!



You, and I know this, are wrong!

You and I know this is wrong!


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## woodhutt (5 Jan 2022)

I remember this exercise from school that demonstrated the importance of punctuation. 

Punctuate the following (note that some words may require an initial capital but to show them here would over-simplify the exercise).

"that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is"


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## akirk (5 Jan 2022)

Reminds me of the puzzle:
Can you create a correct sentence in English which has the word ‘had’ 11 times sequentially (punctuation allowed in between)


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## Sachakins (5 Jan 2022)

Back round to the old chestnut of,

Eats shoots and leaves


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## Cozzer (5 Jan 2022)

HamsterJam said:


> With apologies to our friends over the Atlantic - and don’t get me started on the use of Americanisms in the UK.



Not just in lingo, either.
Have you noticed that it's also crept into football now, with players getting credited with "assists"?!
Mind you, there's a lot of inane, time-filling commentary these days - I heard pundit Martin Keone say that one of the players had "feet like paint brushes" last weekend!
There followed what is described as a "pregnant pause" before his colleague queried what had just been said, and Keone blathered that he'd meant that the player was "an artist"!


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## Cozzer (5 Jan 2022)

akirk said:


> Reminds me of the puzzle:
> Can you create a correct sentence in English which has the word ‘had’ 11 times sequentially (punctuation allowed in between)



No.


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## akirk (5 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> akirk said:
> 
> 
> > Reminds me of the puzzle:
> ...



Tom and Harry were both taking an English test at school on the use of had or had had and went to look at the results. Harry beat Tom, because in the answer to question 4, Harry, where Tom had had had, had had had had, had had had had the teacher's approval, so he scored full marks.


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## J-G (5 Jan 2022)

Limey Lurker said:


> You, and I know this, are wrong!
> 
> You and I know this is wrong!


I'll concede that point -- but, if you read my later posts, I do correct my initial broad-brush statement


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## Daniel2 (5 Jan 2022)

Gosh, this thread has become incredibly boring.


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## Suffolkboy (5 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> Gosh, this thread has become incredibly boring.


Are you referring to the thread on drill bits?


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## Daniel2 (5 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> Are you referring to the thread on drill bits?



No, I'm referring to this thread, The Joke Thread, where the psuedo academics
seem to have taken over.
And, no, your effort at humour hasn't passed me by.


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## Linus (5 Jan 2022)

I totally agree.


Daniel2 said:


> No, I'm referring to this thread, The Joke Thread, where the psuedo academics
> seem to have taken over.
> And, no, your effort at humour hasn't passed me by.



Can the moderators please generate a thread for grammatical correctness and leave the joke thread for jokes?


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## Suffolkboy (5 Jan 2022)

Linus said:


> I totally agree.
> 
> 
> Can the moderators please generate a thread for grammatical correctness and leave the joke thread for jokes?



This was all my fault and I apologise.


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## Suffolkboy (5 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> No, I'm referring to this thread, The Joke Thread, where the psuedo academics
> seem to have taken over.
> And, no, your effort at humour hasn't passed me by.



I'm glad you noticed my attempt at a joke. I'll confess it wasn't my best work.


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## Daniel2 (5 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> I'm glad you noticed my attempt at a joke. I'll confess it wasn't my best work.



It's all good @Suffolkboy , I just like certain threads to be kept on track,
that's all.


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## Cozzer (5 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> Gosh, this thread has become incredibly boring.



Sits back, grabs popcorn, and waits for much hilarity from Daniel2....


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## Bm101 (5 Jan 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Get off of your high horse.


helping your uncle jack off his horse

Punctuation. Grammar. Pointless.


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## Cozzer (5 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> No, I'm referring to this thread, The Joke Thread, where the psuedo academics
> seem to have taken over.
> And, no, your effort at humour hasn't passed me by.



"_Psuedo_ academics"?


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## Cabinetman (5 Jan 2022)

To air on the side of caution. I’ve heard that twice on the BBC recently. Lord Reith will be spinning in his grave.


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## J-G (6 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> No, I'm referring to this thread, The Joke Thread


You seem unable to appreciate that this is no longer 'The Joke Thread'.

I don't know how, but it has now been designated separately as 'The Grammar Thread'.


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## J-G (6 Jan 2022)

Daniel2 said:


> It's all good @Suffolkboy , I just like certain threads to be kept on track,
> that's all.


If I recall correctly - you complain if posts do not make reference to woodwork even though this is specifically the 'Off Topic' section, so it seems that you are doubly confused since one would not expect humour in a 'Grammar' thread.


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## jcassidy (6 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> This was all my fault and I apologise.



I think you meant, "This is all my fault, and I apologise."


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## Pineapple (6 Jan 2022)

woodhutt said:


> I remember this exercise from school that demonstrated the importance of punctuation.
> 
> Punctuate the following (note that some words may require an initial capital but to show them here would over-simplify the exercise).
> 
> ...


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## doctor Bob (6 Jan 2022)

woodhutt said:


> I remember this exercise from school that demonstrated the importance of punctuation.
> 
> Punctuate the following (note that some words may require an initial capital but to show them here would over-simplify the exercise).
> 
> "that that is is that that is not is not is that it it is"


Easy
"that, that, is, is, that, that, is, not, is, not, is, that, it, it, is."


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## Daniel2 (6 Jan 2022)

J-G said:


> You seem unable to appreciate that this is no longer 'The Joke Thread'.
> 
> I don't know how, but it has now been designated separately as 'The Grammar Thread'.



That post, and my other post, have been imported from the joke thread. They now appear
completely out of context.


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## Suffolkboy (6 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> I think you meant, "This is all my fault, and I apologise."



Hoisted by my own petard!


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## Adam W. (6 Jan 2022)

I'll bring the subject under discussion to wood.

The use of annular rings to describe the annual growth rings of early and late wood in sawn timber.

Honestly !


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## stuart little (6 Jan 2022)

HamsterJam said:


> With apologies to our friends over the Atlantic - and don’t get me started on the use of Americanisms in the UK.


I think the worst Americanism (in print) is 'coworker', should be 'co-worker', which sometimes they get right. The first time I came across it unhyphenated, I wondered what a ; 'cow orker' was!


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## gcusick (6 Jan 2022)

Obvious. Someone who orks cows.


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## stuart little (6 Jan 2022)

J-G said:


> You seem unable to appreciate that this is no longer 'The Joke Thread'.
> 
> I don't know how, but it has now been designated separately as 'The Grammar Thread'.


I are an gramma student!


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## MorrisWoodman12 (6 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> To air on the side of caution. I’ve heard that twice on the BBC recently. Lord Reith will be spinning in his grave.


Errrrrrrr?


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## Limey Lurker (6 Jan 2022)

The Holland and Anderson sign was finished, but Mr Holland asked for changes to the spacing between Holl and and and and and and and and and and and and derson.


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## Limey Lurker (6 Jan 2022)

stuart little said:


> I are an gramma student!


I bet you talk proper like what I do!


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## Tris (6 Jan 2022)

Not grammar, but the common misuse of discrete instead of discreet can be amusing or annoying


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## Adam W. (6 Jan 2022)

MorrisWoodman12 said:


> Errrrrrrr?


To Errrrr is human.


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## Spectric (6 Jan 2022)

The killer of grammar is social media and dumb phones, the language that is used now would be more at home in Bletchley or some secret service organisation. Everything is going downwards because no one cares and just accepts everything at face value and it then becomes the norm. Even schools seem to teach the english language mainstream in a way that was once reserved for the lowest bands who needed extra help. Look at the BBC, once upon a time they would never show misspelt words or be grammatically incorrect but now they cannot even reconise a female actress and insult them by calling them actors.


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## niall Y (6 Jan 2022)

Bm101 said:


> helping your uncle jack off his horse
> 
> Punctuation. Grammar. Pointless.


A case for the use of " off, of " if ever I saw one.


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## Just4Fun (6 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> Look at the BBC, once upon a time they would never show misspelt words or be grammatically incorrect but now they cannot even reconise a female actress


Irony alert


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## Sgian Dubh (6 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> I'll bring the subject under discussion to wood.
> 
> The use of *annular* rings to describe the annual growth rings of early and late wood in sawn timber.


I think you've maybe nailed it. Slainte.


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## paulrbarnard (6 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> To Errrrr is human.


To Arrrrr is pirate


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## Steve_Scott (6 Jan 2022)

“The data shows…” bugs me.


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## Yojevol (6 Jan 2022)

@accipiter @jcassidy @Suffolk Brian @Mickjay @Hutzul @gregmcateer @Suffolkboy @Pineapple 

I feel I have to come clean and eat humble pie. I've learned/learnt, subsequent to my post, that learned/learnt are indeed _both_ past tenses of the verb 'to learn'. The adjective form of learned is pronounced with the emphasised 'e' as my learnEd friends would say.
I have been trying to think of similar instances where the past tense is not the regular 'ed'. The only one so far is 'to build', past tense 'built' unless you're asking the question 'Was Jerusalem builded here?' No mention of that in my Collins English Dictionary and the spellchecker doesn't like it.
Brian
PS just come up with another - ironically, spell, spelt and spelled.


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## Droogs (6 Jan 2022)

@Yojevol Here in the far north we have jump with a past participle of jamp and although contenious to most teachers has been used for around 500 years


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## jcassidy (6 Jan 2022)

Yojevol said:


> @accipiter @jcassidy @Suffolk Brian @Mickjay @Hutzul @gregmcateer @Suffolkboy @Pineapple
> I have been trying to think of similar instances where the past tense is not the regular 'ed'.



I _read _this thread and I _thought _if I _ran _with irregular verb ending, I _would _have _died_.

Hmm.. maybe not died, nor tied nor lied. But definately _laid_, _said_, and _paid_. And I _threw _in an Oxford comma for you, for free.


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## Just4Fun (6 Jan 2022)

Yojevol said:


> I have been trying to think of similar instances where the past tense is not the regular 'ed'.


If I were a tidy person I would have _swept_ my workshop. Instead I _slept_ and _kept_ things messy. SWMBO _wept_ when she saw it.


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## Yojevol (6 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> I _read _this thread and I _thought _if I _ran _with irregular verb ending, I _would _have _died_.
> 
> Hmm.. maybe not died, nor tied nor lied. But definately _laid_, _said_, and _paid_. And I _threw _in an Oxford comma for you, for free.





Just4Fun said:


> If I were a tidy person I would have _swept_ my workshop. Instead I _slept_ and _kept_ things messy. SWMBO _wept_ when she saw it.


Yeah but, yeah but, what about 2 past tense words?


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> To Arrrrr is pirate


Why are they called Pirates? Because they aaaarr.


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> But definately _laid_, _said_, and _paid_. And I _threw _in an Oxford comma for you, for free.



No, you threw it in free.


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## JefL (6 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> The killer of grammar is social media and dumb phones, the language that is used now would be more at home in Bletchley or some secret service organisation. Everything is going downwards because no one cares and just accepts everything at face value and it then becomes the norm.



I care, and I absolutely refuse to use text speak when I use sms or whatsapp on my phone. It does have an effect too, neither of my daughters, nor their partners, use text speak to me or on our family groups. I just nagged them until they stopped 

On forums (fora?) I always proof read my post before hitting send too. It's not infallible but at least it usually makes sense. Which is more than can be said for a few posters here.

Jef


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## Sporky McGuffin (6 Jan 2022)

Suffolkboy said:


> Hoisted by my own petard!



I believe that should be "hoist _with_ your own petard". I await being corrected.


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## John Brown (6 Jan 2022)

Dreamed and dreamt?


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## selectortone (6 Jan 2022)

I find the way American vernacular is becoming the norm here irritating. Things like 'airplane' for aeroplane for example.

I recently emailed Cinch, the car buying company, about the ad they are running on TV.

I asked them, if it wasn’t too much trouble, to tell that bearded bloke who does their adverts that in America they say ‘Anyways’ while here in the UK we say ‘Anyway’. I got a very nice reply from Alannah from their Customer Service Team saying “Thank you very much for your email and for reaching out to cinch. I will pass on your feedback to the marketing team.”

Well, it gave my daughter a laugh


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## jcassidy (6 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I believe that should be "hoist _with_ your own petard". I await being corrected.


Indeed it is, from Hamlet, something like "tis sport to have the enginer hoist with his own petard".


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## Adam W. (6 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> To Arrrrr is pirate


Unless you're from Mendip.


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## RobinBHM (6 Jan 2022)

So, I hate the trend for starting sentences with the word.....


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## RobinBHM (6 Jan 2022)

when my daughter hit her head I said to her; there their they're


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## RobinBHM (6 Jan 2022)




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## Sgian Dubh (6 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I believe that should be "hoist _with_ your own petard". I await being corrected.


Maybe you're 'hoist with your own pedantry', ha, ha.

I await receiving my next copy of Private Eye and perusing the Letters section. Slainte.


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## paulrbarnard (6 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Unless you're from Mendip.


Which I am, but it needs an Ohh to preface it then.


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## Stevekane (6 Jan 2022)

God I am the last person to be criticising anyone for poor grammar or spelling but I do sometimes see posts where I really do have to work hard at trying to understand what the person is saying, and given that were trying to “communicate” surely thats a serious issue. Often its a lack of punctuation or any attempt at sentence structure which throws me. 
Steve.


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## Adam W. (6 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> Which I am, but it needs an Ohh to preface it then.


My youngest was born in the Shepton clinic and delivered by Eavis's good lady.


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## paulrbarnard (6 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> My youngest was born in the Shepton clinic and delivered by Eavis's good lady.


We are probably related then


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## Adam W. (6 Jan 2022)

I wouldn't be surprised, it is Mendip after all.


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## Jacob (6 Jan 2022)

Tris said:


> Not grammar, but the common misuse of discrete instead of discreet can be amusing or annoying


not bovvered misself - you can tell by the context. I just happened to remember that discrete is the roughly the opposite of concrete and is spelt or was spelled the same way. But indiscreet is usually spelled 'indiscrete' - rarely used to mean 'not concrete'. Who cares anyway? 
PS In Moxon things are fpelled really ftrangely.


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## D_W (6 Jan 2022)

stuart little said:


> I think the worst Americanism (in print) is 'coworker', should be 'co-worker', which sometimes they get right. The first time I came across it unhyphenated, I wondered what a ; 'cow orker' was!











Co-worker vs. Coworker


English is full of pesky little quandaries that sometimes make it very frustrating to learn and use. The long, complicated words are not the issue…




www.grammarly.com





It's usually in print without the hyphen here.


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## D_W (6 Jan 2022)

In the US, the only people in grammar competitions are generally liberal arts majors and attorneys. That's not always the case. I work with a former math major who could organize 400 cats and make them march in order, and he wordsmiths my stuff pretty extensively. 

Well, when someone loses an argument on an internet forum, they it's not uncommon in the states to see them pivot to grammar and punctuation. 

Anecdotally, I've noticed that rank and file English folks _can be or are generally _more rabid about grammar, but doing anything improper in German will get more instant results from Germans.


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## Jacob (6 Jan 2022)

stuart little said:


> I think the worst Americanism (in print) is 'coworker', should be 'co-worker', which sometimes they get right. The first time I came across it unhyphenated, I wondered what a ; 'cow orker' was!


Yebbut not difficult to work out what coworker means; after all how many cow-orkers do you bump into on a daily basis?


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## D_W (6 Jan 2022)

https://www.amazon.com/DIYAREA-Commercial-Filtration-Supermarket-Restaurant/dp/B09DPDLXS9/ref=sr_1_97?m=A7LU2GMNJQBY&qid=1641510175&s=merchant-items&sr=1-97



Not sure if you can see american amazon entries, but this seller is likely someone branding from overseas and selling as "DIY Area". 

When they expand to commercial food prep with their name, it appears that they could also benefit from hyphens, etc.


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## Cabinetman (6 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> Indeed it is, from Hamlet, something like "tis sport to have the enginer hoist with his own petard".


 And just in case anybody doesn’t know. I’m (fairly sure) it means to be blown up by your own pipe bomb. They were laid against doorways quite often. Ian


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## Cozzer (6 Jan 2022)

Hanged or hung.

Personally, I'm incredibly well hung.


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## Droogs (6 Jan 2022)

Grammar in my house is a nightmare. SWMBO is a fully accredited CIEP proofreader and editor and English teacher, me, I just think that I'm a pedant, she normally points out I'm just a peasant cow-orker


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## glenfield2 (7 Jan 2022)

Limey Lurker said:


> The Holland and Anderson sign was finished, but Mr Holland asked for changes to the spacing between Holl and and and and and and and and and and and and derson.


My old dad used to tell me that one when I was a kid 60 years ago (except it was ‘Welland and Anderson’). I regularly amused(?) my kids with it in turn.


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## stuart little (7 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> Yebbut not difficult to work out what coworker means; after all how many cow-orkers do you bump into on a daily basis?


Not many! What caused my initial 'wonder' was that when reading it,   'cow-' was the last word on a line, & 'orker' started the next!


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## stuart little (7 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> https://www.amazon.com/DIYAREA-Commercial-Filtration-Supermarket-Restaurant/dp/B09DPDLXS9/ref=sr_1_97?m=A7LU2GMNJQBY&qid=1641510175&s=merchant-items&sr=1-97
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hyp-hens?????


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## paulrbarnard (7 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Hanged or hung.
> 
> Personally, I'm incredibly well hung.


Undoubtedly better than being well hanged.


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## jcassidy (7 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> And just in case anybody doesn’t know. I’m (fairly sure) it means to be blown up by your own pipe bomb. They were laid against doorways quite often. Ian



Yes indeed, 16th century fuse cords were fairly unreliable and a grenadier was quite likely to be blown up by their own device 'petard', I assume much to the amusement of the defending forces.


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## woodhutt (7 Jan 2022)

That that is, is.
That that is not, is not.
Is that it?
It is!


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## Sporky McGuffin (7 Jan 2022)

Stevekane said:


> God I am the last person to be criticising anyone for poor grammar or spelling but I do sometimes see posts where I really do have to work hard at trying to understand what the person is saying, and given that were trying to “communicate” surely thats a serious issue.



The odd slip doesn't bother me enormously - certainly not enough to correct someone unless they've somehow deserved it. As long as the meaning is clear everything is OK.

Also I know that I quite often have weird typos in my posts if I've used my tablet - it has rather over-enthusiastic afro courgette.


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## accipiter (7 Jan 2022)

West Country English - Wikipedia 

As Lt-Col. J. A. Garton observed in 1971,[10] traditional Somerset English has a venerable and respectable origin, and is not a mere "debasement" of Standard English:



> The dialect is not, as some people suppose, English spoken in a slovenly and ignorant way. It is the remains of a language—the court language of King Alfred. Many words, thought to be wrongly pronounced by the countryman, are actually correct, and it is the accepted pronunciation which is wrong. English pronounces W-A-R-M worm, and W-O-R-M wyrm; in the dialect W-A-R-M is pronounced as it is spelt, Anglo-Saxon W-E-A-R-M. The Anglo-Saxon for worm is W-Y-R-M. Polite English pronounces W-A-S-P wosp; the Anglo-Saxon word is W-O-P-S and a Somerset man still says WOPSE. The verb To Be is used in the old form, I be, Thee bist, He be, We be, Thee 'rt, They be. 'Had I known I wouldn't have gone', is 'If I'd a-know'd I 'ooden never a-went'; 'A' is the old way of denoting the past participle, and went is from the verb to wend (Anglo-Saxon wendan).


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## Jacob (7 Jan 2022)

accipiter said:


> West Country English - Wikipedia
> 
> As Lt-Col. J. A. Garton observed in 1971,[10] traditional Somerset English has a venerable and respectable origin, and is not a mere "debasement" of Standard English:


Standard English is an artificial construction to start with.




__





Standard English - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## accipiter (7 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> Standard English is an artificial construction to start with.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No arguments from me...


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## Cozzer (7 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> Undoubtedly better than being well hanged.



Oh, it is! 

When I was a youngster and in any bother at home, my mother's usual threat was _"You'll end up at the end of a rope, you will...."_!
Frankly, even at that age, I'd have preferred "Wait 'til your dad gets home", but there you go...


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## accipiter (7 Jan 2022)

paulrbarnard said:


> Which I am, but it needs an Ohh to preface it then.







__





Urban Dictionary: Ooh arr


the joy of farming. saluting a farmer. what you say instinctively when you see a tractor on the road.




www.urbandictionary.com


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## fixit45 (7 Jan 2022)

Here is one for you all. Why is it that when asked a question everyone now starts the reply with "So"


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## paulrbarnard (7 Jan 2022)

fixit45 said:


> Here is one for you all. Why is it that when asked a question everyone now starts the reply with "So"


Unless it’s a politician then they always start with “look”. It just informs me that the politician is about to spout nonsenses. 

The “So” is I think a result of the increase in words per minute used by younger people today. They tend to start talking before the previous person has finished the entire question. A drawn out “So” gives the answerer time to process the rest of the question while still appearing to be on the ball.


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## Droogs (7 Jan 2022)

woodhutt said:


> That that is, is.
> That that is not, is not.
> Is that it?
> It is!




It is not, that!


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## nickds1 (7 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> Yes indeed, 16th century fuse cords were fairly unreliable and a grenadier was quite likely to be blown up by their own device 'petard', I assume much to the amusement of the defending forces.


The phrase "Hoist with his own petard" is from Hamlet, so yet another one down to Shakespeare.

Interestingly, whilst a "petard" means a small explosive device in several European languages (including English), the etymological roots are from the French "_pétard_ " which translates as "to break wind" (i.e. f*rt). So really very appropriate.


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## Cozzer (7 Jan 2022)

...and don't - _*don't!*_ - even think about getting me started on the increasing number of people who think that the shortened version of "etcetera" is "ect."


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## Cooper (7 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> Standard English is an artificial construction to start with.


I'm sure you are right. When a child my grandmother and father drilled into us the "correct" way to pronounce words, though as I grew up in Saaff London there were lots of other influences. 
When I started teaching I worked in Brixton, where there was a very local mixture of South London "cockney" and West Indian patois, used by most of the children. I couldn't come near to imitating it and reverted to how I was forced to speak as a child. I had the most brilliant put down from one lad, which still makes me smile 45 years later. He turned to me, while I was trying to explain something complicated and said "Sir, are your people wealthy" in a really comic posh accent. He had everyone, including me, in stitches.


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## Cozzer (7 Jan 2022)

Cooper said:


> I'm sure you are right. When a child my grandmother and father drilled into us the "correct" way to pronounce words, though as I grew up in Saaff London there were lots of other influences.
> When I started teaching I worked in Brixton, where there was a very local mixture of South London "cockney" and West Indian patois, used by most of the children. I couldn't come near to imitating it and reverted to how I was forced to speak as a child. I had the most brilliant put down from one lad, which still makes me smile 45 years later. He turned to me, while I was trying to explain something complicated and said "Sir, are your people wealthy" in a really comic posh accent. He had everyone, including me, in stitches.



Irie man...


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## Cozzer (7 Jan 2022)

I didn't have to look very far for this fine specimen - it appeared on a local forum a few hours ago. I'm sorry, but if this is an example of the way things are going.....well, I despair.

"Had to break in (emergency council home ) smashed glass top panel door but with it been a upvc door it’s cracked the welded joints so basically the door is now useless ,will not open so reported by police for us ,the same day it was boarded up to make safe temp fix ,fine,2 days later one bloke out to measure up thought he was measuring up for new door ,few days later ,now they are sending glazers to replace the glass only in a clapped out door explained but say they are firstly replacing glass ,? so up to now one bloke to board one bloke to measure and 2 blokes with glass and still require a door ,seriously I see why this council waste so much money embarrassing and still wants a new door"

Amusingly - ?! - it had already been edited by the poster because of "a mistake"....


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## Yorkieguy (7 Jan 2022)

There are two assertions that are often made, neither of which hold any validity. 

Firstly: That there is only one 'correct' version of the English language - namely, British English. Fine of you're in Britain, but not so otherwise. There are at least 17 mainstream versions of English in use, all perfectly valid. Not just me saying that - I'm happy to defer to linguists such as Professor David Crystal - a foremost linguist and writer of more than 100 books. Here are a few of his many videos on 'Englishes':

David Crystal - World Englishes - Bing video
Full Circle & David Crystal: The Future of Englishes - Bing video
David Crystal - Will English Always Be the Global Language? - Bing video

This too 'Cambridge English':

Varieties of English | English Language Learning Tips | Cambridge English - Bing video

As to spelling and grammar, some American English words make more sense than British English. For example, 'pencilling' in Br. English gains a redundant 'l' on the end of 'pencil' . American English does not.
And why - when we combine 'beauty' and 'full' - does the word lose an 'l' at the end to become 'beautiful'?

In my view, to deride American English or any other version as not valid is not only out of step with linguists, it's rude and pompous. Australians have two colloquialisms which nicely describe those who exhibit such traits: 'Tall Poppies' and 'Roost Rulers'. 

The population of the UK is around 66 million. An estimated 400 million people speak one or another version of English as a first language, another 600 million are estimated to speak it competently as a second language, and an estimated 1 billion other people have a working knowledge of English if only a smattering, so that's 2 billion in all. Hence, the 66 million of us who speak British English represents just 3.3% of the total. So anyone who thinks that we have any influence at all on how English continues to evolve is tilting at windmills. Like t or not, More people in the world write 'color' than colour, and 'center' than centre.

Unlike France, where he Académie française (established in 1635 to act as the official authority on the usages, has impoverished rather than enriched the language by trying (but failing) to prevent the 'Anglicisation' of French, the British have always been content to allow the language to accept 'loan words' 'borrowed' from other languages including French. 

Even between England and Scotland word usage differs. In England , if we ask someone if they've had the Covid-19 vaccine, we'd say 'have you had your jabs', or 'have you been jabbed?' In Scotland they say 'jags' or jagged'. In England we might say 'that's outside my responsibility or 'outside my area', in Scotland, instead of saying 'outside', they say 'without'.

I admit that there are 'Americanisms' that are creeping into use in England which I'm not keen on. In particular, in hotels and restaurants it's becoming commonplace to see 'Restroom', 'Bathroom' and 'Washroom' instead of 'toilet', 'Lavatory' or W.C. We don't go there for a wash, a bath or a rest - we need the toilet, the most common polite colloquial term for which in England tends to be 'the loo'.

Secondly: There is a view, (debunked almost two decades ago), that 'text speak' is making young people illiterate. Not so. It's a language in its own right and makes perfect sense to abbreviate words when texting and to leave letters out of words you need to know what letters to remove. A couple of videos:

David Crystal on Texting (S1E2 of It's Only a Theory) - Bing video
Text speak makes youngsters' spelling BETTER, David Crystal says | Daily Mail Online

I have three granddaughters - one aged 23 with a first class Hons degree in English, and twins aged 21 in their second year at Oxford. They all gained A star grades in English at 'O' and 'A' level. They text extensively using 'text speak'. If I took them to task for that, they'd laugh me off the face of the planet and rightly so. It's me - not they - who lacks literacy as despite having a smartphone for ten years, I've not acquired the language of 'text speak' because I send few texts. (Some abbreviations have been around in written English for a very long time - ASAP for example, and rather ironically, the rather stuffy 'RSVP' - an abbreviation of the French term '_répondez s'il vous plaît'._

Incidentally, one development of the use of computer databases of addresses is the dropping of apostrophes at the end of street names, such as St Jame's or St James's'. (Now St James'). Had they not been dropped, it could literally cost lives by creating delays in the emergency services locating place names in the database to despatch police officers, firefighters or paramedics.

Just my wordy take on things - I'm quite content if others don't concur.


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## Jacob (7 Jan 2022)

Yorkieguy said:


> There are two assertions that are often made, neither of............ More people in the world write 'color' than colour, and 'center' than centre.
> 
> .........


 Worldwide more english speaking people pronounce a short A; "grass" rhyming with "ass", rather than the other thing. Not sure which is standard english but it's 'posh' even though basically a very local SE British pronunciation.
I has a posh girlfriend once, into ponies and talking of saddling up with things pronounced "barth mats" . I thought it was another word until she explained that "barth" meant "bath" . Didn't last long.


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## jcassidy (7 Jan 2022)

Germany also has a statutory commission which determines what German is. Of course, they have many Germanic languages, so there can only be one version of the language taught in schools. Fie example they got rid of the heissen since I learnt German; no more funny B, it's always two 's' now. "Ich heisse John" rather than "Ich heiBe John".

The Italians took another approach and decided that the language spoken in Tuscany would be the official lingo, and every other language spoken was just a 'dialect'. Officially because Dante wrote in Tuscan, doesn't harm that the first prime minister was Tuscan neither. Never mind that the Sicilian spoken by my father in law has about as much in common with the dialect in for e.g. Treviso, as Spanish has to French.


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## D_W (7 Jan 2022)

A fellow who I know well worked at Williamsburg in public view for about 16 years (and then managed to get a job that was mostly out of sight). 

One of the interesting things that he relays (and I couldn't do accurately for most european countries other than france and germany) is the typical kind of tone that comes across when someone would go past his context (musical instruments when he was working publicly). 

Germans have a well-earned reputation (not all, this is sort of an average thing) for being particular in wanting to know what's correct and if it's something they don't know that much about, being very curious from a "gathering the facts" kind of perspective. 

(Americans, if you're wondering, are across the board, but often one of the things in the US since there's no craft economy here is to have someone say "if I had the same tools you do, I could make the same thing just as easily. You're just hiding behind having all of those tools). 

I don't remember what he said about the English.


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## D_W (7 Jan 2022)

jcassidy said:


> Germany also has a statutory commission


This triggered my thought above (about the Germans) - to not only know that you're technically right about language usage, but to have a commission with actual published rules to prove it.


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## paulrbarnard (7 Jan 2022)

Yorkieguy said:


> There are two assertions that are often made, neither of which hold any validity.
> 
> Firstly: That there is only one 'correct' version of the English language - namely, British English. Fine of you're in Britain, but not so otherwise. There are at least 17 mainstream versions of English in use, all perfectly valid. Not just me saying that - I'm happy to defer to linguists such as Professor David Crystal - a foremost linguist and writer of more than 100 books. Here are a few of his many videos on 'Englishes':
> 
> ...


David Crystal seems pretty prolific. He is undoubtedly a cunning linguist.


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## Limey Lurker (7 Jan 2022)




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## Cozzer (7 Jan 2022)

Americans...
Why do they "sodder" electrical components?
And why do they measure the "heighth" of things?


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Jan 2022)

My mother has an issue with everyone now pronouncing all the vowels in "temporarily" (it ought to be "temprally", apparently) and "ordinarily" ("ord'nraly" or some such, rather than the cumbersome ord-in-AR-ril-ee). I keep telling her that when she was a gal there was a war on, so people had to economise. All those wartime propaganda films with clipped vowels and frightfully awkward goodbye scenes. And inappropriately named dogs, obviously.


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## Bm101 (7 Jan 2022)

niall Y said:


> A case for the use of " off, of " if ever I saw one.


Wait... What?!?


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## PhilipL (8 Jan 2022)

Language is political (as well as relevant to class war). The Protestant northern Irish (they don't like that latter word usage) started up the Ulster-Scots language in opposition to Gaelic. Their main text book is called An Ulster Scots Grammar. Unfortunately the intro tells you that they have not yet found the rules of its grammar.

It is screamingly funny.

"Taepitinfir"? To apply for.


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## heimlaga (8 Jan 2022)

accipiter said:


> West Country English - Wikipedia
> 
> As Lt-Col. J. A. Garton observed in 1971,[10] traditional Somerset English has a venerable and respectable origin, and is not a mere "debasement" of Standard English:


'If I'd a-know'd I 'ooden never a-went 
That scentence has paralells in Swedish and Norwegian. If standard English had kept that sort of grammar it would be far easier for us who speak other Germanic languages to learn English.


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## accipiter (8 Jan 2022)

heimlaga said:


> 'If I'd a-know'd I 'ooden never a-went
> That scentence has paralells in Swedish and Norwegian. If standard English had kept that sort of grammar it would be far easier for us who speak other Germanic languages to learn English.


Have a look/search for English dialect from places such as in Lancashire and Yorkshire...


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## heimlaga (8 Jan 2022)

accipiter said:


> Have a look/search for English dialect from places such as in Lancashire and Yorkshire...


I have heard yorkshiremen speak their dialect and recognized plenty of words. Probably loan words brought there by the Vikings. 
Lowland Scotish has a pronounciation which is a lot easier for me to speak than standard English. Fewer of those impossible sounds that get more plentiful the futher south one goes in England and even more plentiful in America,

If you all spoke oldfashioned Shetland dialect one would hardly have to go to school to learn English. 
The Shetlanders are only a few generations away from speking Norn which was essentially a dialect of Norwegian. The dialect of Swedish that I speak is a sort of halfways point between Swedish and Norwegian. Some Norwegian dialects are closer to my dialect than standard Swedish is. Hence I would probably understand Shetland Norn if there was anyone still speaking it.


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## Digger58 (8 Jan 2022)

What annoys me no end is the all too common use of "like". Its a filler word used with absolutely no thought and doesn't add anything to any conversation.


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## Cozzer (9 Jan 2022)

heimlaga said:


> 'If I'd a-know'd I 'ooden never a-went
> That scentence has paralells in Swedish and Norwegian. If standard English had kept that sort of grammar it would be far easier for us who speak other Germanic languages to learn English.



Many years ago I knew a girl from the Faroe Islands, and she tried to teach me a few words in Faroese.
I have to confess that the only one I remember - and I've no idea how to spell it correctly! - sounded like "pupperlingerhout".

She cheerfully told me it meant "richardhead" (or as near as damn it).

She also filled me in on the local culinary art* of catching a shark, urinating on it, and burying it for a few weeks before digging it up again "as a delicacy".

We didn't last.

* As far as I recall!

_(Fearing that part of the above might get censored, read "Richard head" as opposed to whatever nonsense has been inserted!)

Edit : Amazing! It was actually censored to "Richard head"!_


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## IanB (9 Jan 2022)

akirk said:


> Tom and Harry were both taking an English test at school on the use of had or had had and went to look at the results. Harry beat Tom, because in the answer to question 4, Harry, where Tom had had had, had had had had, had had had had the teacher's approval, so he scored full marks.


You need a semi-colon after the 7th "had". Or a full stop if it doesn't have to be a single sentence.


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## schnapps95 (9 Jan 2022)

accipiter said:


> Have a look/search for English dialect from places such as in Lancashire and Yorkshire...


Or you could read the book titled Teisdal' en how twas spok'n (Teesdale and how it was spoken). I live in Teesdale on the Yorkshire side of the river which was origanly the boundry of the North Riding of Yorshire and County Durham when i read the book i was amazed how many dialect words are still used by older people like me (80yrs). I believe the author Kathleen Teward was a school teacher


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## PhilipL (9 Jan 2022)

heimlaga said:


> 'If I'd a-know'd I 'ooden never a-went
> That scentence has paralells in Swedish and Norwegian. If standard English had kept that sort of grammar it would be far easier for us who speak other Germanic languages to learn English.



At least you don't have to learn the (sometimes multiple for a single item) genders associated with nouns.


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## heimlaga (9 Jan 2022)

PhilipL said:


> At least you don't have to learn the (sometimes multiple for a single item) genders associated with nouns.


For me speaking a dialect of Swedish which retains the old three gender system that is just the normal way of thinking and speaking.
In my dialect as well as in the dialects of Norwegian that retain the three gender system and in Faroeese and Icelandic which both retain the tree gender system most things have the same gender. If you know the gender of a thing in one language it is usually the same in another. Of cause this rule of thumb does not hold true 100% but it is close enough for a carpenter in everyday talk.
However.....and this is the tricky part...... this rule of thumb does apparently not apply to German.
I wonder if it would apply to old English? Never thought of that.

Standard Swedish is based on the Stockholm dialect which lost it's three gender system in the middle ages influenced by Danish and Low German. The Stockholm dialect is in many ways more Danish than Swedish to this day.
Therefore we still call it to "dänsk" when somebody speaks standard Swedish. To "danish" that is.


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## Cozzer (10 Jan 2022)

I suspect a lot of 'bad grammar' can be put down to laziness, but something which has always intrigued me is how certain people use 'was' and 'were' the wrong way round!
"We was walking down the road" and "I were standing at the corner" being examples.
Laziness can't explain it, as surely only one of 'em would be used!


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## Sporky McGuffin (10 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> I suspect a lot of 'bad grammar' can be put down to laziness



There's an academic argument (with considerable merit) that natural/"bad" grammar is more grammatical than (for example) standard English, because it conforms to simpler, more consistent rules. IIRC much of standard English was a middle class conceit to enable the belittling if those not sufficiently middle class (and I say that as a jolly middle class chap).


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## Cozzer (10 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> There's an academic argument (with considerable merit) that natural/"bad" grammar is more grammatical than (for example) standard English, because it conforms to simpler, more consistent rules. IIRC much of standard English was a middle class conceit to enable the belittling if those not sufficiently middle class (and I say that as a jolly middle class chap).



As a mere underling, I touch forelock and bow to your superior knowledge, squire!


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## Sporky McGuffin (10 Jan 2022)

I didn't mean to suggest that I find the examples you posted acceptable!


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## Daniel2 (10 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> There's an academic argument (with considerable merit) that natural/"bad" grammar is more grammatical than (for example) standard English, because it conforms to simpler, more consistent rules. IIRC much of standard English was a middle class conceit to enable the belittling if those not sufficiently middle class (and I say that as a jolly middle class chap).



It looks like it probably still is.


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## Jacob (10 Jan 2022)

We've got our own local correct grammar book here in Derbyshire https://www.waterstones.com/book/ey-up-mi-duck/richard-scollins/john-titford/9781853066580


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## Cirks (11 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> As a mere underling, I touch forelock and bow to your superior knowledge, squire!


Part of grammar is about making readability and understanding better. However, I still read the end of that as you complementing a clever common garden/tree rodent.


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## Cozzer (11 Jan 2022)

Cirks said:


> Part of grammar is about making readability and understanding better. However, I still read the end of that as you complementing a clever common garden/tree rodent.



Specsavers, mate! 

(_Almost_ Mattel, a toy maker of note from the days of my youth)


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## Limey Lurker (11 Jan 2022)

The difference that a colon makes to a sentence is amazing:-

"I ate my friend's cake".


"I ate my friend's colon".


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## Cozzer (11 Jan 2022)

Limey Lurker said:


> The difference that a colon makes to a sentence is amazing:-
> 
> "I ate my friend's cake".
> 
> ...



Does that mean a semicolon is a colostomy bag?


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## heimlaga (11 Jan 2022)

Cozzer said:


> Does that mean a semicolon is a colostomy bag?


I thought it refered to a certain mr Putin and his type. You dont want to insult your own rear end hence the semi-


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## Fergie 307 (11 Jan 2022)

Yorkieguy said:


> There are two assertions that are often made, neither of which hold any validity.
> 
> Firstly: That there is only one 'correct' version of the English language - namely, British English. Fine of you're in Britain, but not so otherwise. There are at least 17 mainstream versions of English in use, all perfectly valid. Not just me saying that - I'm happy to defer to linguists such as Professor David Crystal - a foremost linguist and writer of more than 100 books. Here are a few of his many videos on 'Englishes':
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you on the text speak. My daughter derives great enjoyment from sending me messages full of these abbreviations, which I then have to ask her to translate because I have no idea what they mean!


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## Fergie 307 (11 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> We've got our own local correct grammar book here in Derbyshire https://www.waterstones.com/book/ey-up-mi-duck/richard-scollins/john-titford/9781853066580


Now Jacob that is a reading recommendation I would take you up on. My father in law was a real old Bedfordshire chap. He had some lovely expressions. One of my favourites, when referring to someone doing something daft, was "E ain't sharp is E?"


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## Nelly111s (11 Jan 2022)

Grammar
The difference between knowing your dung and knowing you're dung.


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## PhilTilson (12 Jan 2022)

I have many pet grammar hates! Over time, I will probably list most of them, but one which has just come up again is the use of 'purposefully' when the speaker means 'purposely'. Do people think that 'purposefully' sounds more 'correct' or 'posh' when they use it? Or is it just ignorance?


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## Yojevol (12 Jan 2022)

A saying that people often get wrong involves under/overestimate. This is a recent example regarding the closure of Hunterston B Power Station:-

'Station director Paul Forrest said the economic contribution made by the plant, which is run by EDF Energy, could not be underestimated'

He should have used 'over'. 'Overstated' would have been even better. In fact it has been very easy to understate the output as the station has never achieved its full potential.
The one that really annoys me is the use of 'basis'. Everything has to be done on a 'daily basis'. Why not just 'daily'?

Another one, which now seems to be hard wired into our language, is the misuse of 'I' and 'me' when combined with another person. The problem has been around a long time. My wife refers to the advice given by her English teacher - if in doubt remove the other person and the correct I/me will be obvious. This error is usually compounded by the speaker putting him/she/theyself first, eg 'me and my mate went....' instead of 'My mate and I went....' 
Brian


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## Sgian Dubh (12 Jan 2022)

People accused of some sort of misdemeanour, or worse who then say they refute the accusation. They don't refute it, whatever it is they're accused of, unless they offer something that proves they didn't do it, weren't their, etc. Without presenting credible evidence showing they couldn't have done it, been there, etc, they're merely denying the accusation, not refuting it.

It seems to me many accused people (implied, etc by others) prefer nowadays to 'refute' rather than simply 'deny'. Slainte.


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## D_W (12 Jan 2022)

That's an example of word stretching, Richards. To deny provides in implication of you just saying "I didn't do it" with no proof, so the connotation comes along with some presumption of guilt. 

To deny and claim you're refuting sounds better. Stretch use of the word to somewhere that it doesn't belong.


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## ElizaTea (31 Jan 2022)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> The odd slip doesn't bother me enormously - certainly not enough to correct someone unless they've somehow deserved it. As long as the meaning is clear everything is OK.
> 
> Also I know that I quite often have weird typos in my posts if I've used my tablet - it has rather over-enthusiastic afro courgette.


Grow them on my lottie


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## ElizaTea (31 Jan 2022)

RobinBHM said:


> when my daughter hit her head I said to her; there their they're


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## Valhalla (1 Feb 2022)

ElizaTea said:


> View attachment 128378


She should have got her head out of the way, whey, weigh


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