# Turning ash



## graduate_owner (7 Nov 2013)

Hi everyone,
Some opinions please. I've just been given 3 logs of ash which apparently blew down after suffering from die back disease. It's been cut up into about 15" lengths and is about 15" diameter.
Firstly, is ash a nice wood to turn - is there anything special to know about it?
Secondly, is it too late after being cut and left for 2 weeks, is it likely to split or is it still good for turning? I shall apply candle wax to the ends tomorrow anyway, but it would be useful to know.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

K


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## Dalboy (7 Nov 2013)

I like ash as a turning wood you could part turn then let dry. Have a look a CHJ's bowl from ash https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/broken-promise-t74638.html to see what ash looks like


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## CHJ (7 Nov 2013)

Beautiful wood to turn.

Seal the ends as soon as possible.

If you have never dried it before then I suggest you at least split the logs in two down the pith.

If not turning green then store on end over this winter in a dry cool place.

If it dries to quickly it will split on you and can if it has a lot of internal moisture split internally leaving cavities to be found when turning.

If you are likely to want wood for tool handles you can split it into staves or given the diameter of your logs even bandsaw or split into 50mm thick slabs for shallow bowls or platters.

If you want to see what can happen even with a rough turned blank whilst final drying then see this piece.

But if you are lucky you can end up with this


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## bogmonster (7 Nov 2013)

Ash is great. Turn a lot of ash. One question though, I thought ash die back wood should be incinerated? 

BM


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## KimG (7 Nov 2013)

bogmonster":3qtk3sni said:


> Ash is great. Turn a lot of ash. One question though, I thought ash die back wood should be incinerated?
> 
> BM



Not heard that (but it wouldn't surprise me, probably a dim directive by DEFRA) after all, the timber isn't the problem, plus any fungal growth will be killed by drying anyway, so destroying the wood doesn't have any beneficial effect, plus the spores are insect borne I think.

Ash is great, has some interesting properties, when wet it will turn a bright pink shortly after a fresh surface is exposed to the air, so if you rough out a bowl, leave it a month or two then turn is some more to finalize the shape but see a little pink colouration, it means it isn't properly dry yet. Some trees have a golden brown heartwood which can be highly figured, this is Olive Ash and is pretty highly prized.


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## Spindle (8 Nov 2013)

Hi

I love ash, especially olive ash - turns well and takes a nice finish

These are Ash / Olive Ash:







OK - Not bowls but hey!

Regards Mick


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## Mark Hancock (8 Nov 2013)

graduate_owner":2krtxojd said:


> Hi everyone,
> Some opinions please. I've just been given 3 logs of ash which apparently blew down after suffering from die back disease. It's been cut up into about 15" lengths and is about 15" diameter.
> Firstly, is ash a nice wood to turn - is there anything special to know about it?
> Secondly, is it too late after being cut and left for 2 weeks, is it likely to split or is it still good for turning? I shall apply candle wax to the ends tomorrow anyway, but it would be useful to know.
> ...


 It's a shame it's been cut so short - 15" - a length I would normally class as firewood. If you are not going to work it straight away follow Chas' ideas for conversion. Ash is pretty good for air drying if converted well.


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## tekno.mage (8 Nov 2013)

I found this on the forestry commision website...

"Although there are no specific measures on logs and firewood in the legislation, the general prohibition on spreading Chalara fraxinea means that movement is prohibited within Great Britain of logs and firewood from woodlands and other sites sites with confirmed Chalara fraxinea infection and which have been served with a statutory Plant Health Notice."

Which probably means you should not have been given logs from an infected tree. However, once dry the timber is no infection risk.

Having said that, ash is a lovely turning timber and relatively easy to dry, once you split the logs through the pith.

The same forestry commision site, does state that "the disease causes staining to the wood". This may well make it quite attractive as a turning wood!


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## winemaker (8 Nov 2013)

I have just finished an Ash bowl, the wood has been in my garage(workshop) in damp area for about 4 years had no problems nice wood to turn


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## Spindle (8 Nov 2013)

Hi Winemaker

That wood bears striking resemblance to Elm - are you sure it's Ash?

Regards Mick


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## Mark Hancock (8 Nov 2013)

Spindle":2qowbaje said:


> Hi Winemaker
> 
> That wood bears striking resemblance to Elm - are you sure it's Ash?
> 
> Regards Mick



I'd tend agree with you, Mick, certainly looks like elm


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## joethedrummer (8 Nov 2013)

winemaker":21vwxrym said:


> I have just finished an Ash bowl, the wood has been in my garage(workshop) in damp area for about 4 years had no problems nice wood to turn


Hello Winemaker again,,,
Really nice job,,,,Ash or Elm ?,,,, You know what you are using...managed to obtain both from a buddy who fells trees and he has sometimes been "jinxed" (not often ) when his felled wood has been turned ,,,,but he is always pleased to receive the wood back as an item ,,,, he often says that no two square inches of wood are the same ,,,so how many different patterns are there in a forest ??
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,joe,,,,,,


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## renderer01 (8 Nov 2013)

I turn lots of ash some is the really light golden colour similar to CHJs bowl but some growing on the side of the river Isla is a much darker colour but it was a huge tree almost 8ft in diameter when compared ash to ash they look very different, would this be the olive ash spoken about?

Rend.


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## CHJ (8 Nov 2013)

Olive Ash is often the result of infection of 'Beef Steak Fungus' or similar.

I've had very similar from an old Ash tree that had a split crown and fungal contamination had started at the top core break.


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## CHJ (8 Nov 2013)

Can have some lovely figuring:-


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## renderer01 (8 Nov 2013)

Hello CHJ,
Yep that makes absolute sense to me this ancient ash had been perched on the side of the River for hundreds of years and spent its last 3 to 4 years submerged in the water only dragged out 2 years ago and the wood is very heavily spalted indicating massive fungal invasion but whether before or after it fell I dont know.
The best news of all is that another even bigger is soon to be felled because of massive erosion of the riverbank supporting it and this whole tree is full of burls or burrs whatever you call them.

Rend.


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## graduate_owner (8 Nov 2013)

Thanks to everyone for the helpful comments and suggestions. The wood was indeed cut for firewood, but I was offered a few pieces after showing an interest. I didn't know anything about restrictions on movement of infected wood though. However it is now in my workshop and has had it's ends waxed, awaiting a chance to get to work on it.

Just one thing though - now that I have waxed the ends, should I still split it down the pith? What purpose does this serve? (And what exactly is splitting down the pith? Is that any split down the middle?)

K


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## CHJ (8 Nov 2013)

Yes split down the middle.

Then any shrinkage will cause the outer edges to shrink back around the circumference as opposed to splitting in several places around the log.


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## bogmonster (9 Nov 2013)

I believe the thinking behind not moving infected ash is that the spores can be spread on the bark of the tree as well as leaves. Whilst the horse may have bolted any little thing that can be done to help prevent the spread of the disease can only be a good thing. Most of the trees where I live in the Mendips AONB are ash. We have no die back here yet but it is close. Losing our ash trees will devastate the landscape. Legalities aside, I honestly don't know what the real risk of moving infected firewood is but personally I would not risk moving it about on the off chance. 

BM


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## tekno.mage (9 Nov 2013)

bogmonster":1p14m8v8 said:


> I believe the thinking behind not moving infected ash is that the spores can be spread on the bark of the tree as well as leaves. Whilst the horse may have bolted any little thing that can be done to help prevent the spread of the disease can only be a good thing. Most of the trees where I live in the Mendips AONB are ash. We have no die back here yet but it is close. Losing our ash trees will devastate the landscape. Legalities aside, I honestly don't know what the real risk of moving infected firewood is but personally I would not risk moving it about on the off chance.
> 
> BM



Indeed BM, and as the spores are also in the leaf litter on the ground around infected trees, they can be carried from the site on the boots, clothing, vehicle tyres, and tools of the workers who felled the tree unless strict bio-security measures are taken. However, as the logs in question are now drying safely in a workshop rather than in an outdoor log pile, I guess the threat from them is now removed. I personally would not accept logs from an infected tree as, like you, I live somewhere with a lot of mature ash trees and no die back (as yet).


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## Mark Hancock (9 Nov 2013)

CHJ":b1jj9f80 said:


> Olive Ash is often the result of infection of 'Beef Steak Fungus' or similar.



Chas

That is the first time I've heard that the Beef Steak Fungus is a cause of Olive Ash. It is known as the cause of Brown Oak. I've tried to look it up on the internet but can't find any explanation of the cause. What I did learn which I wasn't aware of is that Ash is part of the same family as Olive.


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## tekno.mage (9 Nov 2013)

KimG":36ioivdk said:


> Not heard that (but it wouldn't surprise me, probably a dim directive by DEFRA) after all, the timber isn't the problem, plus any fungal growth will be killed by drying anyway, so destroying the wood doesn't have any beneficial effect, plus the spores are insect borne I think.



Ash Die Back disease is carried by air borne fungal spores, not insects. You may be thinking of Emerald Ash Borer, an insect that is currently killing ash trees in parts of Russia (I think) - that threat has not reached our shores as yet, and hopefully will not.

So far as I have found on the DEFRA and Forestry Commission web sites, dry ash timber or firewood is no threat - the threat mainly comes from the movement of diseased live plant material (saplings, leaves etc) but the spores are also spread by anything that comes into contact with infected leaf litter - ie people, vehicles and even tools used on infected sites - hence the need for good bio-security when dealing with infected sites and material. The spores in infected leaf litter are not killed by freezing over the winter. The Forestry Commission recommend burning or burying infected plant material on site when dealing with infected saplings, but are less clear on the matter of timber from mature infected trees.


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## winemaker (9 Nov 2013)

Spindle":2a6w3z7i said:


> Hi Winemaker
> 
> That wood bears striking resemblance to Elm - are you sure it's Ash?
> 
> Regards Mick



Yes it is ash, from a mountain ash tree that was in my garden and was felled 4 years ago


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## CHJ (9 Nov 2013)

winemaker":1y46m0pi said:


> Yes it is ash, from a mountain ash tree that was in my garden and was felled 4 years ago



Mountain ash or rowan (in UK Sorbus aucuparia) is genus: Sorbus

European Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) is genus Fraxinus

Two totally differing woods/species.


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## CHJ (9 Nov 2013)

Mark Hancock":3gmykspj said:


> CHJ":3gmykspj said:
> 
> 
> > Olive Ash is often the result of infection of 'Beef Steak Fungus' or similar.
> ...




Now that's really bugging me Mark, I can't think where I read details and indeed can't now find an on-line reference.
It was in a discussion on the various colour variations and related to soil types, some of the confusion came from Brown cored Ash as found on local shallow soils with underlying cancerous rocks and the associated fungal growth and the Ash grown in continental Europe where the soils had a predominantly differing composition but for the life of me I can't recall the specific minerals involved.


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## renderer01 (10 Nov 2013)

Hello CHJ/all,
Have concluded some research on this topic and whilst not conclusive indicates a predictable scenario. Several sources of data indicate olive ash is sourced from very mature trees and soil conditions have an effect as well. 
It therefore follows that the oldest and most mature trees due to there age and size have been ravaged by storms and sustained damage over a huge period of time allowing the influx of pests and fungi which in turn could easily lead on to the possibility of changes to wood colouration and grain patterns burrs etc.
Im simply gratefull such wood exists, as its a joy to turn.

Regards 

Rend.


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## winemaker (11 Nov 2013)

> Mountain ash or rowan (in UK Sorbus aucuparia) is genus: Sorbus
> 
> European Ash (Fraxinus excelsior) is genus Fraxinus
> 
> Two totally differing woods/species.



Thank you :mrgreen:  :roll:


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## ianmcairns (3 Dec 2020)

KimG said:


> Not heard that (but it wouldn't surprise me, probably a dim directive by DEFRA) after all, the timber isn't the problem, plus any fungal growth will be killed by drying anyway, so destroying the wood doesn't have any beneficial effect, plus the spores are insect borne I think.
> 
> Ash is great, has some interesting properties, when wet it will turn a bright pink shortly after a fresh surface is exposed to the air, so if you rough out a bowl, leave it a month or two then turn is some more to finalize the shape but see a little pink colouration, it means it isn't properly dry yet. Some trees have a golden brown heartwood which can be highly figured, this is Olive Ash and is pretty highly prized.


Spores are wind-blown and often persist on fallen leaves.


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## KimG (5 Dec 2020)

Ah thanks Ian, I wasn't certain, remarkable it hasn't got here sooner then, I guess the prevailing westerly source of our weather would explain that to some extent.


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