# Allen key upgrade?



## Emt (7 Aug 2021)

I’ve seen where people use knobs instead of having to use Allen keys to tighten where the blades go, is it easy to do this and how do I find out which size I’d need? I have a Proxxon DSH 
Thanks


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## Rorschach (7 Aug 2021)

You just need to know the size of the thread, almost certainly metric so just measure the diameter and a rough idea of the pitch to check it isn't fine rather than coarse.


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## Emt (7 Aug 2021)

Ok can you explain that to me as if I’m a toddler?  I get the measuring bit but what’s the pitch? And is there a specific knob I need? ( sorry I’m new to scrolling and also a woman)!


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## Rorschach (7 Aug 2021)

The pitch is the space between the threads. On imperial threads this is measured in "teeth per inch" (tpi) and on metric threads it is the direct measurement so example M6 x 1 = 6mm diameter of the screw, 1mm between each tooth on the thread. With a pair of calipers or on larger screws even just a decent ruler this is quite easy to measure. 
Being proxxon the thread will be metric and probably a nice easy one. Once you know the thread you can then just search e.g M6 knob.


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## Emt (7 Aug 2021)

so It’s an M4, presumably only the length of the thread is measured when determining the length needed right?


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## Rorschach (7 Aug 2021)

Yes and you can always shorten a thread that is too long so if in doubt, buy a little longer.


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## Spectric (7 Aug 2021)

You might be better off with allen key T wrenchs rather than trying to replace the screws, often not enough room for knobs or they end up getting in the way.


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## gcusick (8 Aug 2021)

Or Wera (and, I guess other manufacturers do hex drivers that have a screwdriver-type handle. Like this - 






352 Ball end screwdriver for hexagon socket screws - Wera Product finder


High quality Kraftform Plus screwdriver. Multi-component Kraftform handle for fast and low-fatigue working. Kraftform Plus: hard gripping zones for high working speeds whereas soft zones ensure high torque transfer. The ballpoint drive profile means that it is possible to swivel the tool axis...




products.wera.de


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## Emt (8 Aug 2021)

Received them yesterday but couldn’t get them to screw tight enough to hold the blade in place, I think they’re a tad too short so I’ve ordered some longer ones, hopefully they do the trick!


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

So just received the longer ones and they seem to be even worse!? Dunno which ones everyone else is using but not working for me


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Aug 2021)

Emt said:


> I’ve seen where people use knobs instead of having to use Allen keys to tighten where the blades go, is it easy to do this and how do I find out which size I’d need? I have a Proxxon DSH
> Thanks



you will probably be able to either buy or make a T handled Allen key. It isn’t rocket science to make if you have a drill and a grinder. The fat handle one is commercial and the inspiration, the other 3 made by me about 50 years ago


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

Yeah I already have one of those that actually came with the saw but I wanted a “tool less” system


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## Gordon Tarling (9 Aug 2021)

Emt said:


> So just received the longer ones and they seem to be even worse!? Dunno which ones everyone else is using but not working for me



Is it possible that the screw is going into a blind hole and that your new screw is hitting the bottom before it tightens down? What length of screw are you trying? Would something like this work?

G.


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

Not sure I understand but I’ve added photos of the original screw and the new knobs. They just don’t tighten enough to close the gap where the blade sits.


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## paulrbarnard (9 Aug 2021)

It could just be a case of how tight you can get it with the knob. You have a lot more leverage with a hex key.


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## Gordon Tarling (9 Aug 2021)

Now I see how it works, I think! The blade is clamped in that block by means of tightening the screw, which should close up the slit in the block. The screw should just slide through the first half of the block and then need to be turned to enter the thread on the second half of the block - so does the screw just slip through that first part of the hole? Can you take a photo from above which shows the slit in its entirety?

G.


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

no it goes all the way through
Edit! No you’re right it does just slip through the first part then needs to be tightened


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## Spectric (9 Aug 2021)

I would say you cannot tighten that knob to a high enough torque to actually clamp that blade, you may well find that the plastic knob will just come away from the threaded rod if you did. What is wrong with just using the allen key so you can get it tight enough?


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## Gordon Tarling (9 Aug 2021)

OK, thanks for the latest pic. What's that small silver coloured plate on the top for? Is the screw holding it on doing anything other than holding it on?

G.


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Aug 2021)

Spectric said:


> I would say you cannot tighten that knob to a high enough torque to actually clamp that blade, you may well find that the plastic knob will just come away from the threaded rod if you did. What is wrong with just using the allen key so you can get it tight enough?


Since @Emt wants a no tool resolution the only answer will be a brass or steel thumb screw or a thumb turn (though the second name is almost certainly incorrect). The second has a thread with a wide end shaped to be griped between thumb and finger. The plastic headed screws are just too fragile.


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

Gordon Tarling said:


> OK, thanks for the latest pic. What's that small silver coloured plate on the top for? Is the screw holding it on doing anything other than holding it on?
> 
> G.





Gordon Tarling said:


> OK, thanks for the latest pic. What's that small silver coloured plate on the top for? Is the screw holding it on doing anything other than holding it on?
> 
> G.


Not really sure what it’s for?? This is it without


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## Emt (9 Aug 2021)

sometimewoodworker said:


> Since @Emt wants a no tool resolution the only answer will be a brass or steel thumb screw or a thumb turn (though the second name is almost certainly incorrect). The second has a thread with a wide end shaped to be griped between thumb and finger. The plastic headed screws are just too fragile.
> View attachment 115633
> View attachment 115634
> View attachment 115635


Thanks, so you think either of these would be better or are you saying anything with a plastic part such as what you posted above would still be no good?


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## HamsterJam (9 Aug 2021)

How about a ’Bristol lever’?
They will give more leverage and the lever position can be adjusted so it is out of the way. (You pull the lever upwards to turn it independently of the tightening action).




You will either need to find a version with a threaded ‘bolt’ protruding from it or use one of your longer bolts screwed in from the other side so it presents a thread for one like these with an internal thread to screw onto.


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## Ttrees (9 Aug 2021)

Try using the plastic one in anger and see if it does the job.
You might have had enough with any thumbserew afterwards.

Another option if you want a handle, is a Bristol lever 
provided its not getting real hard use, as some wouldn't be the most suited to that
I see someone has already beaten me to it.


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## Gordon Tarling (10 Aug 2021)

Emt said:


> Not really sure what it’s for?? This is it without



OK, that doesn't help us much really - thought the split in the block may have been a bit longer. The Bristol lever might be your best bet, certainly worth a try. What about the lower blade clamp? Is that the same?

G.


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## Bob Chapman (10 Aug 2021)

Solder the original Allen key into the original Allen screw (both of which originally worked) and that should solve the problem. (I think).


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## Titan_uk (10 Aug 2021)

You can get the screw a lot tighter with the leverage on an Allen key than you would with the knob you bought. Providing the knob slips in and out of the first part of the clamp (without you turning it) it may be ok if you can get it tight enough. Even then it might pop off if you turn it tight enough.


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## Titan_uk (10 Aug 2021)

Figured out the metal plate. In your pic looks upside down and facing the wrong way. It's for holding blades that have pins in them. The blade pins fit into the slot, the metal plate pushes down onto the top of the blade holding it in the slot as well as the clamp. Looks like for straight blades you are relying purely on clamping force


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## HamsterJam (10 Aug 2021)

Titan_uk said:


> Figured out the metal plate. In your pic looks upside down and facing the wrong way. It's for holding blades that have pins in them. The blade pins fit into the slot, the metal plate pushes down onto the top of the blade holding it in the slot as well as the clamp. Looks like for straight blades you are relying purely on clamping force



so thats a game changer…..

If the saw is compatible with blades that have pins, is that not the best way forwards?
I’m not a scroll saw user but think pinned blades are inherently tool less. Can anyone confirm please?


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## TominDales (10 Aug 2021)

Emt said:


> Thanks, so you think either of these would be better or are you saying anything with a plastic part such as what you posted above would still be no good?


HI EMT and Sometimewoodworker. I bought a whole lot of different thumb screws to replace grub screws on some old hand routers. I got them, I think from Orbital fasteners, but because of the cost of postage I bought loads of different sizes of screws of every type and have a box of them in my garage.

If you can wait 3 weeks I'll post you one when i get back from holiday. They look like this. I think i have M4 to M8. Thumb screws do press into your fingers a bit, but these simple spade like ones work quite well. I'm back on 26th August and can send you, if its M4. But you will have to wait.
Thanks Tom


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## Stevekane (10 Aug 2021)

First I know nothing about scroll saws, but just looking at it I really cannot envisage this lady being able to tighten up that clamp enough to hold a blade thats vibrating like crazy whilst having plywood pushed through it useing a thumb screw, whether its steel brass or plastic, Im not confident I could do it, and mounting a big plastic “bristol” lever on that vibrating head is just asking for it to undo itself,,,what is wrong with having a single Allen key sitting with the saw ready to nip up the original screw? maybe the supplied allen key is a crappy little short thing but whole sets of of them with nice long handles are easily available, I bought a nice set from Aldi. Otherwise this lady is running around in circles trying to achieve what looks to me to be the impossible.
Steve.


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## sometimewoodworker (11 Aug 2021)

TominDales said:


> HI EMT and Sometimewoodworker. I bought a whole lot of different thumb screws to replace grub screws on some old hand routers. I got them, I think from Orbital fasteners, but because of the cost of postage I bought loads of different sizes of screws of every type and have a box of them in my garage.
> 
> If you can wait 3 weeks I'll post you one when i get back from holiday. They look like this. I think i have M4 to M8. Thumb screws do press into your fingers a bit, but these simple spade like ones work quite well. I'm back on 26th August and can send you, if its M4. But you will have to wait.
> Thanks Tom
> View attachment 115647


That design was exactly the one I was trying to describe, thank you.


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## paulrbarnard (11 Aug 2021)

Stevekane said:


> First I know nothing about scroll saws, but just looking at it I really cannot envisage this lady being able to tighten up that clamp enough to hold a blade thats vibrating like crazy whilst having plywood pushed through it useing a thumb screw, whether its steel brass or plastic, Im not confident I could do it, and mounting a big plastic “bristol” lever on that vibrating head is just asking for it to undo itself,,,what is wrong with having a single Allen key sitting with the saw ready to nip up the original screw? maybe the supplied allen key is a crappy little short thing but whole sets of of them with nice long handles are easily available, I bought a nice set from Aldi. Otherwise this lady is running around in circles trying to achieve what looks to me to be the impossible.
> Steve.


A nice T handled Allen key would do a great job. Drill a suitable hole at the back of the saw to park it in so it is always available.


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## Emt (11 Aug 2021)

Thanks everyone! I think I’m going to probably just stick with using the Allen key provided, seems the best option as I’m not that experienced yet plus I’ve got other problems now but that’s for another post!


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## Emt (11 Aug 2021)

TominDales said:


> HI EMT and Sometimewoodworker. I bought a whole lot of different thumb screws to replace grub screws on some old hand routers. I got them, I think from Orbital fasteners, but because of the cost of postage I bought loads of different sizes of screws of every type and have a box of them in my garage.
> 
> If you can wait 3 weeks I'll post you one when i get back from holiday. They look like this. I think i have M4 to M8. Thumb screws do press into your fingers a bit, but these simple spade like ones work quite well. I'm back on 26th August and can send you, if its M4. But you will have to wait.
> Thanks Tom
> View attachment 115647


Thanks for the generous offer but just gonna stick to what came with the machine for now


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## TominDales (11 Aug 2021)

Emt said:


> Thanks for the generous offer but just gonna stick to what came with the machine for now


Ok, let me know if you would like to try, they didnt cost much per item. 
As Stevekane says, you can get a set of decent allan keys from Aldi with t handles and made of reasonably strong steel that doesn't burr that easily for a few£. I gave my son a set for his scooter as he kept leaving mind all over the place and they are very good.


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## Padster (20 Aug 2021)

I’m on hols at the minute but have the DSH as well and have no issues using mine and have made no modifications to it.

I’ll check mine when I get home as see if there is anything obvious.

Regards

Padster


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## Padster (23 Aug 2021)

@Emt So I've checked my machine and whilst I have some pinless spare blades (unopened) the blades I've been using and open spares, and currently in the DSH are pinned so make it far easier.

HTH

Padster


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