# A Bench build just kick-started - I.e in stick!



## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

Took delivery of some Southern Yellow Pine last week. So far I have done nowt but cut the planks for the top. (I used an Irwin hard-point handsaw.)

I can't really justify any pics, but just to prove the stuff is here:


























Nowhere to put it 'in stick' but on the planer for now. I am hoping to get started next weekend, by which time any bad movement will have become apparent (I hope)! 

The 12 x 2" planks will be ripped down to 4 x 2" (Approx) and then sandwiched together to finish with a benchtop as close to 4" thick x 72" long as possible. I am going to put a 4 x 2 hardwood piece on the front edge. It will make good dog holes and soak up some wear. I have an old window cill (somewhere) that will just do the job! 

A Paramo Q/R front vice and a full width twin screw vice across the tail. 
So far so good.

John


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## woodbloke (19 Jun 2010)

I do like the look of that SYP John...need to pick up a lump and Yandles next time I'm there - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (19 Jun 2010)

What twin-screw vice are you fitting, John?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

The timber came from Sykes in Atherstone Rob. It was in 16 foot planks. Maybe not what we could call 'economical' in price, but free delivery. 
And it looks okay with no shakes. We'll see how we go when I start milling! 


Paul, 

I bought two 'York' vice-screws from 'Axyminister' and I'll be making my own twin-screw vice with some Maple I have. At least that is the present plan. I want to use it mainly for dovetailing, so I am hoping to get 2' between the screws. If I can't arrange that, I'll stick it in 'main position', and use the Q/R vice as a tail vice. 

Thanks fellas. 

John


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## Paul Chapman (19 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":139yx6t2 said:


> I want to use it mainly for dovetailing



I recently bought the Veritas twin-screw vice (not fitted yet) and, like you, mainly for things like dovetailing where the screw and guide bars of a normal vice get in the way. I'll be fitting mine on the front of the bench, where I think it will be of most use, and leaving a Record 52D on the end as a tail vice.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

Paul, 

I did consider a Veritas vice. The problem is, I am not used to anything other than a Q/R. So whilst I'm prepared to use a twin-screw for some tasks, I'm not sure I'd be happy using one as a general purpose vice. 

At the moment I have time to relax on that and think it through. I might be able to live with no Q/R now I am slowing down anyhow! :lol: 
Of course the big advantage of the old type of vice is the absence of guide bars to get in the way of a 'drop' when dovetailing.

John


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## Paul Chapman (19 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":3ayj4fs0 said:


> At the moment I have time to relax on that and think it through.



If I get mine fitted before you get around to doing yours, I'll post some pics and let you know how it works out.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

Paul Chapman":1vhynlu8 said:


> Benchwayze":1vhynlu8 said:
> 
> 
> > At the moment I have time to relax on that and think it through.
> ...



That is an odds-on bet Paul. It's going to take me a week before I can even start making the top. And that itself isn't going tobe easy. It's a big lump of wood to shift around! 

I am very conscious of how much I have slowed down this last year or so. Take things slowly, says I. It'll all get done in the end. If it doesn't, someone will have to finish it for me! :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (19 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":158smdwd said:


> I am very conscious of how much I have slowed down this last year or so. Take things slowly, says I. It'll all get done in the end. If it doesn't, someone will have to finish it for me! :wink:



You sound about as fast as me :lol:


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## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

Paul Chapman":ibrd9ul6 said:


> Benchwayze":ibrd9ul6 said:
> 
> 
> > I am very conscious of how much I have slowed down this last year or so. Take things slowly, says I. It'll all get done in the end. If it doesn't, someone will have to finish it for me! :wink:
> ...



Hence the resurgence of my interest in my hand tools! (Mostly!) 
Still slurping over a Domino mind...:wink: 

John


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## Jake (19 Jun 2010)

There is a very easy way I've posted about before for making a really solid quick release twin screw vice out of your Paramo if you can find a twin for it. Way better than the Veritas (good as it is).


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## Benchwayze (19 Jun 2010)

Thanks Jake... 
Let me see if I can figure it out without finding the post... I'll keep you up to snuff! Okay? :wink: 

Cheers...
John 
8)


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## devonwoody (20 Jun 2010)

Nice feeling building a workbench, remembering things of the past and then contemplating the builds of the future.

Every time I have opened some liquid container, turps or whatever, I always wipe the residue from the brush somewhere on the bench even the glue. 
It creates a homely patina.


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## matthewwh (20 Jun 2010)

Strewth that's a lot of work for an irwin handsaw! I'd have taken them to the sawmill myself. Still you've made a beautiful job of it!


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## Benchwayze (20 Jun 2010)

Jake":2nft7oig said:


> There is a very easy way I've posted about before for making a really solid quick release twin screw vice out of your Paramo if you can find a twin for it. Way better than the Veritas (good as it is).



Ok Jake:

I checked my Paramo vice. 
Bearing in mind, the Veritas has two sprockets and a bicycle chain at the front. I reasoned that however you use twin vices, to connect them, I would need a chain and sprocket/s. But with the Q/R vices it's got to be simpler to do it at the back I would say. 

Looking at my vice I'd have no problem, other than a bit of metalwork - if I can find suitable fixed-wheel sprockets. I should manage that, but the problem is a matching vice! I can't even find one to match my Record let alone the Paramo, which is one BIG vice! 

I could buy another Record, but right now there isn't even one of those on eBay that twins with mine. But if I do find either, I'm going to look at this possibility.

A question..

The Q/R... At the moment, I usually operate that one-handed, with the work in the left hand. With twin vices I presume you have to use both Q/R levers together. So holding the work in my teeth would be okay! 

Aside from that, I think I could make this work. 

Now I suppose you will tell me you did it in a completely different way! 
:lol: :?



Regards
John


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## Benchwayze (20 Jun 2010)

matthewwh":7o6hzvlt said:


> Strewth that's a lot of work for an irwin handsaw! I'd have taken them to the sawmill myself. Still you've made a beautiful job of it!



I contemplated the sawmill Matthew. But I didn't want to subject my car to the weight of three 16' lengths of that timber. Plus, my roof bars would have sagged and I'd have dented my roof, with all the speed-bumps around here... Not to mention the potholes.  

Fact is those hard-point saws are darned sharp, so it was a case of nice steady work... The worst part was stacking the cut lengths on the planer! 

Regards
John


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## Jake (20 Jun 2010)

You've pretty much nailed it, John. 

Re QR, you remind me that I originally intended to link the two with a rod across the front, so that tugging the rod sideways would release it. I have never got around to it, and just QR to around the right place and then hold the work with one hand and twirl the handles (one finger job) with the other for the last bit. But, I think it would work all the same and will try it sometime.

Details are on the other side (the original other side) here


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## Benchwayze (20 Jun 2010)

Jake":2uzbgfrx said:


> You've pretty much nailed it, John.
> 
> Re QR, you remind me that I originally intended to link the two with a rod across the front, so that tugging the rod sideways would release it. I have never got around to it, and just QR to around the right place and then hold the work with one hand and twirl the handles (one finger job) with the other for the last bit. But, I think it would work all the same and will try it sometime.
> 
> Details are on the other side (the original other side) here


Thanks Jake,

I winged it over't t'other side, and yes, that's more or less as I figured it. 

Is this the RS you mentioned. Looks like the type of sprocket I'd need. I have a few lengths of chain hanging up in the garage too. (From my br0thel-creeper days as a 'Ted! 8) )

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... &R=0183710

Regards
John


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## Jake (20 Jun 2010)

I've just checked and that's the same one I used.

You'd have to check chain pitches etc


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## ByronBlack (20 Jun 2010)

A leg vice would solve all those problems John - you can clamp very wide boards for dovetailing - and you aren't limited by the internal dimension of the twin-screw, as soon as you reach the maximum you can't go wider, with a leg vice and a deadman/holdfast in an apron you can go as wide as the workbench. A leg vice is also a lot cheaper, you could then place your Q/R vice at the end and have it work as your tail vice.


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## Jake (20 Jun 2010)

Downside is lots of stooping and fiddling, and no QR. 

You can of course use any old vice to hold one edge and a holdfast in an apron to hold the other, it doesn't need to be a leg vice. If I ever need to dovetail etc something wider than 600mm I might do that.


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## ByronBlack (20 Jun 2010)

Jake":1y4z5d3u said:


> Downside is lots of stooping and fiddling, and no QR.
> 
> You can of course use any old vice to hold one edge and a holdfast in an apron to hold the other, it doesn't need to be a leg vice. If I ever need to dovetail etc something wider than 600mm I might do that.



I have had a QR for about 5 years, and I rarely 'need' the quick release, as the thickness of stock being used doesn't change that much, so a leg vice won't see that much stooping in reality - and the leg-vice board doesn't have to be installed at the very bottom either, it can be installed higher up and avoid the need to stoop.

My point was if the main vice was a twin screw vice, you don't have the option of clamping wider boards than the clearance of the vice, with a single QR you do - but then you have the problem of racking and have to have spacer on the other side of the vice to get enough clamping pressure.

Either way, every vice has its negative and positives, and it comes down to what is more important to you.


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## Jake (20 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":ypo7zi63 said:


> I have had a QR for about 5 years, and I rarely 'need' the quick release



At a guess I use it 25% of the time when I move the vice, enough for it to be an essential for me.



> the leg-vice board doesn't have to be installed at the very bottom either, it can be installed higher up and avoid the need to stoop.



The screw is lower on all the leg vices that I've seen, not that I follow this sort of historicist fad that closely.



> My point was if the main vice was a twin screw vice, you don't have the option of clamping wider boards than the clearance of the vice, with a single QR you do - but then you have the problem of racking and have to have spacer on the other side of the vice to get enough clamping pressure.



That's not correct though -I assume you are basing that opinion on the Veritas or something? I've got 200mm of jaw clear on the right, and a vice that will not rack at all (because of the four guide bars as well as the twin screws).



> Either way, every vice has its negative and positives, and it comes down to what is more important to you.



Agree with that. I know that I will carry this type of twin screw over when/if I build a new bench. It will be interesting to see what you go for with your next bench.


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## Benchwayze (21 Jun 2010)

devonwoody":ussx6wzl said:


> Nice feeling building a workbench, remembering things of the past and then contemplating the builds of the future.
> 
> Every time I have opened some liquid container, turps or whatever, I always wipe the residue from the brush somewhere on the bench even the glue.
> It creates a homely patina.



I'll have to remember that John. 
Knowing me though, what I spill on a nice light bench top will be some dark oak stain, or similar! Then I'll have to do the lot! :lol: 

John


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## bugbear (21 Jun 2010)

Since shoulder vises (European style) are widely liked for dovetailing, you can combine this with a Record Q/R.

Here's one made by the late Jack Kamishlian.















This gives the dovetailing convenience of a shoulder vise, whilst retaining the versatility and capacity of a Q/R for other work.

(The chain-ganged face vise idea is also in Landis' book BTW)

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (21 Jun 2010)

Thanks BB, 

Coincidences come in all shapes and sizes. 
I gave up on a similar idea. Not because I didn’t think it would work mind. 
I thought I could use an extended rear-jaw in my Q/R, and add a bench screw to use as a form of shoulder vice. 

I was thinking along the lines of having a ‘take-up’ block to put in the vice when I wanted to use it. That would have meant the shoulder vice-screw was always in place, and might get in the way. (Unless I made the jaw detachable… which is a similar idea to Jack Kamishlian’s it seems. ) I imagine this worked, so it’s something I might think about… If I don’t go crazy and build a separate bench for dovetailing! 

Thanks again BB. I’m obliged. 

Regards
John


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## Sheik Hans (21 Jun 2010)

not sure how RS works in England , you may need an account to buy like you do over here . Those sprockets should be available from any decent bearing/ chain outlet and in all probability be cheaper to boot .


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## Jake (21 Jun 2010)

bugbear":25szneh5 said:


> (The chain-ganged face vise idea is also in Landis' book BTW)



From memory I think he talks rather vaguely about putting gears on the face of two ordinary vice screws, Veritas style? I certainly read something like that somewhere, which was part of the inspiration. Edit - indeed, all discussed here when I first posted about the idea https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post ... crew#60934. I've never seen anyone suggest using a record style vices, or hanging the sprockets off the rear, which all my input amounted to - looking at the prong and going "aha!". 

Sheik Hans - you can register here as a cash account, but as I said in my thread over there I only used them for the quick delivery and out of laziness, in the knowledge that as ever one pays a price for the convenience!


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## bugbear (22 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":35l1r5mh said:


> Thanks BB,
> 
> Coincidences come in all shapes and sizes.
> I gave up on a similar idea. Not because I didn’t think it would work mind.
> I thought I could use an extended rear-jaw in my Q/R, and add a bench screw to use as a form of shoulder vice.



That would put MASSIVE racking forces on the Q/R, unless you used a packing piece.

The design pictured doesn't rack the Q/R, since the body of the "extension vice" spans both rails.

BugBear


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## bugbear (22 Jun 2010)

Jake":124coleu said:


> bugbear":124coleu said:
> 
> 
> > (The chain-ganged face vise idea is also in Landis' book BTW)
> ...



No - there's a complete article on a guy that actually built it.

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (22 Jun 2010)

bugbear":23dz9074 said:


> Benchwayze":23dz9074 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks BB,
> ...



Absolutely BB. That's what I meant by a 'Take-up' piece in the next paragraph... a packing piece. 

This idea does it all in one, and it is all removeable, where my idea would have been a fixture. 
Regards
John


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## Jake (22 Jun 2010)

bugbear":2m0q7ylj said:


> Jake":2m0q7ylj said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":2m0q7ylj said:
> ...



Had to dig it out to remind myself, it is two ordinary vice screws as I said, with the chains/sprockets at the front like a veritas. I remember admiring it, but thinking it looked like far too much bother and/or metal-working skill to build. A definite inspiration though. The only small originality I have ever laid any claim to is making it so very easy to make one by a dead simple adaption of record vices and in the process getting a vice with massive rigidity and resistance to racking with all guide rails as well as the screws.


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## Benchwayze (23 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":1bk6hdcp said:


> A leg vice would solve all those problems John -


 
This is true to an extent Byron. When I had my very first workshop (A dirt-floor garage in Erdington!) the bench in there wasn't mine, and it had one of those old spring-vices. (Like a giant pair of Mole-grips). I couldn't really get on with it, but as the place wasn't mine, I hadn't much choice. The leg vice reminds me of that and I'm not sure I could go that retro Byron, much as it would suit the bench I am planning. 

What I might do, is make a smaller version of this bench, with a leg-vice, for occasional use, and put it where I have a storage cupboard at the moment. The cupboard is in dire need of replacement, so that might be a thought. 

Regards 
John


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