# So you think you might get a wood boiler?



## RogerS (24 Feb 2017)

By that, I mean one of those wood boilers where you feed in logs, it transfers the heat into a thermal store from which the central heating and hot water for the house are then extracted.

Do not. DAMHIKT.

The decision is binary. 

Question 1. Do I have an infinite supply of free seasoned logs ?

No. Forget it. Go and get a proper heating system.

Yes. Do I want to be a slave to the bloody thing, filling its voracious maw with four wheelbarrow full of logs every day. Each day. Wondering if you're too late and the bloody thing has gone out. 

Again.

Mmmm..thought not. Oil boiler here I come.


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## Woodmonkey (24 Feb 2017)

My mate has one like this, but he is a tree surgeon so he does have an endless supply of logs. He also has an immersion heater too so you can have a shower in the morning without having to get up and light a fire at 5am.


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## xiphidius (24 Feb 2017)

Wood Pellets...


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## Farmer Giles (24 Feb 2017)

I bought a combined log/pellet boiler a few months ago. I'm still in the process of installing it however its linked to 2000 litre heat store, auto ignites logs and pellets and auto swaps between logs an pellets. The idea is you stuff it full of logs, which should be enough for a days heating, but if you're out or can't be bothered to fill it then it auto switches to the 250kg pellet store on the side which should be enough for about a week in the coldest winter. It's a Solar Focus Therminator, I was lucky to get it nearly new so got a good discount. I'm currently on LPG and my gas boiler will be my backup for the inevitable break down.


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## Keithie (24 Feb 2017)

or ...if you have higher energy needs and some space to grow stuff...maybe wood pellet, grain and grass (miscanthus)

http://www.treco.co.uk/products/boiler/ ... ass-boiler


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## RossJarvis (25 Feb 2017)

Additionally, as the BBC pointed out this week, if too many people burn wood we will run out of trees and the planet will die. The country ran out of wood in the 18th century and it was only the switch to coal which helped us to industrialise and brought the trees back. It's sort of a nice idea if not too many people do it. Coal is much much more energy dense, less polluting and doesn't't cause any trees to die which are trying to suck up the CO2 from everything else.


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## sunnybob (25 Feb 2017)

I saw a tv report a while back saying that all the trendy log burners being installed in London are causing the return of the Pea Soup fogs.
I survived those original 1950;s pea soupers, but many people didnt. And i definitely recall the Clean Air act which specifically banned that kind of thing. Just wondering how these salesmen are getting round that particular law.


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

sunnybob":292052pu said:


> I saw a tv report a while back saying that all the trendy log burners being installed in London are causing the return of the Pea Soup fogs.
> I survived those original 1950;s pea soupers, but many people didnt. And i definitely recall the Clean Air act which specifically banned that kind of thing. Just wondering how these salesmen are getting round that particular law.



Modern clean burning stoves http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/smoke-con ... r-act.html

Snag is if the owners don't use them right or put poorly dried logs on them they belch out smoke and damaging particulates.


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## sunnybob (25 Feb 2017)

When I was a kid, our open fires burnt EVERYTHING. Even down to all the kitchen waste and vegetable peelings wrapped in old newspaper and put to the back of the fire. Thats what caused the killing smogs.
Our metal dustbins contained nothing but ash.
If someone can burn cheaper stuff, they will, regardless of whats coming out the chimney.


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

We aim to use mainly logs augmented by coppiced timber from our own woodland. The logs are either from arboricultural work, managed forest or wind blown. I have 15 cages from the frames of old IBC containers that I fill up as opportunities arise. So the timber is sustainable and the boiler is of the gasifying type with very low emmisions, plus I'm up a big hill in the pennines. I don't want to use pellets unless I have to, I'm adding thermodynamic solar panels and possibly some solar PV later so should be able to keep to logs most of the time.


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## tomatwark (25 Feb 2017)

The cost of firewood has gone up as the demand increases.

I have a stove at home which we burn off cuts from the workshop on and it has reduced the gas bill, but if I had to buy logs it would not make any difference.

I think a lot of folks are fitting these as a design element and not as a way of saving money.

In the workshop we burn our off cuts and also one trip pallets our neighbours want rid of.

Although when it is really cold we will get through 5-10 pallets in a day, depending on the off cuts we have.

But even having to cut them up it is still a cheap way of heating 4500 sq feet.


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

Bought logs can't compete with natural gas on price, but it can with LPG. If you can scavange some free logs from around and about then even better. We have yet to do a full year yet however I reckon I will need about 7 to 10 tonnes of logs just for the CH& HW.


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

Farmer Giles":1giks252 said:


> Bought logs can't compete with natural gas on price.


 They can if its a larger set up like the OP mentions. 

I do contract log cutting for various sized set ups. If you buy in roundwood by the wagon load and get it cut up on site you can easily undercut mains gas. I recon £75 per cube is the point at which logs match gas and on a larger scale you could be looking at £40-£45 per cube. Admittedly this requires a lots of effort and space with storing and loading boilers but not fiscally expensive per kWh


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## Jacob (25 Feb 2017)

RossJarvis":2deprdgm said:


> Additionally, as the BBC pointed out this week, if too many people burn wood we will run out of trees and the planet will die. The country ran out of wood in the 18th century


No it didn't. Timber was cared for - the navy and other big users such as the early iron industry planted stuff and were very aware of conservation. Wherever wood was in demand there were maintained woodlands. The main clearances were down to farming, at it's worst with sheep. Modern clearance the same - it's for meat farming or fodder growing. Where forests are valued for timber you get conservation kicking in, for obvious reasons


> it was only the switch to coal which helped us to industrialise and brought the trees back.


The trees started going when coal kicked in as there was less demand


> It's sort of a nice idea if not too many people do it. Coal is much much more energy dense, less polluting and doesn't't cause any trees to die which are trying to suck up the CO2 from everything else.


Do you really believe that!!! 
Coal and oil have both turned out to be disastrous, not only highly polluting in terms of air quality, dust etc but also to the point where CO2 is changing the climate itself. They have no future - either that or we don't!
Burning wood is virtually carbon neutral - as long as timber is being planted as fast as it is being consumed, but couldn't be done on a massive scale.
Using wood to make stuff is even better - it is carbon negative in that it sequesters CO2. 
The real answer is alternative sustainable energy sources, wind , solar, tides etc


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

I was considering buying wood in the round and hiring a wood processor for a couple days and split the cost with few neighbours. I must admit I have only looked at pre-split log costs at the moment.

The RHI scheme now insists on traceable renewable wood since many abused the scheme by burning any old scrap including kitchen units causing pollution issues so I've been looking at the ramifications of this when you source pukka scrap timber. I keep a log (pardon the pun!) of all the timber I get with receipts, photos, type, moisture content etc. Given we grow some of our own then I think I need to register as a producer, it was a while since I looked.


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

Farmer Giles":1ji4qhpc said:


> I was considering buying wood in the round and hiring a wood processor for a couple days and split the cost with few neighbours..



I am surprised more people don't do this. With a strong extra pair of hands I work on it costing my customers between £10-£15 per cube to process based on a days work.


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## RogerS (25 Feb 2017)

Regardless as to whether or not one has access to 'free' or low-cost logs, the fact still remains that you're beholden to The Beast to keep feeding its voracious appetite. Day in. Day out. Night in. Oh, it's out.


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

RogerS":1kkpfbt7 said:


> Regardless as to whether or not one has access to 'free' or low-cost logs, the fact still remains that you're beholden to The Beast to keep feeding its voracious appetite. Day in. Day out. Night in. Oh, it's out.


Not in my case. I have a 2000 litre heat store and if I fill the boiler with logs it auto ignites them and burns the lot in one go heating up the heat store. The heat is slowly released in the house via a heat exchanger and underfloor heating. One load shoukd do a day, however if not, it will auto cut over to pellets and the 250kg hopper attached to the side which on its own will last a week. Pellets are not as cost effective as logs but still just about competitive with LPG.


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

Might be of interest http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison.


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## RogerS (25 Feb 2017)

Farmer Giles":1z9b40g9 said:


> RogerS":1z9b40g9 said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless as to whether or not one has access to 'free' or low-cost logs, the fact still remains that you're beholden to The Beast to keep feeding its voracious appetite. Day in. Day out. Night in. Oh, it's out.
> ...



My point was specifically aimed at the type of wood boiler that I have. I agree there are some very nice 'automatic' boilers out there. Even more automatic pellet boilers that do everything for you bar make the tea. At a cost. If I had £30k spare then I might consider a wood pellet boiler.

We also have a 2000 litre heat store. It is undersized for the house.

Plus from an engineering/physics perspective, heating something and then using that to heat something else just seems plain daft to me. No matter how good the insulation, there is wasted heat loss.


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## porker (25 Feb 2017)

Beau":20ysvd1d said:


> Might be of interest http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison.



Interesting thanks. I have oil (no mains gas where I am) and last year was cheaper than mains gas. I also supplement the heating with a log burner to keep heating oil costs down. I get free wood and have't bought any for 3 years since I moved here. I think with wood you need to enjoy the process as there's no getting away from it, it requires work and if you buy it in it tends to be expensive unless you are willing to process it yourself.

Looked into all the alternatives a couple of years ago - pellet, GSHP, ASHP etc. It seemed very difficult to get impartial advice and people who have it, love or loathe it. I think it all depends on being realistic about the benefits and how well insulated etc. your house is. Mine is a 130 yr old un-insulated place that would be extremely costly and difficult to improve so the GSHP and ASHP aren't really an option and as above the pellet boilers have high up front costs.


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## bugbear (25 Feb 2017)

Beau":1r4hdjpb said:


> Might be of interest http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison.



And a bit o' science;

https://www.newscientist.com/article/21 ... ing-worse/

BugBear


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## Jacob (25 Feb 2017)

RogerS":19a03uz4 said:


> ....
> 
> Plus from an engineering/physics perspective, heating something and then using that to heat something else just seems plain daft to me. No matter how good the insulation, there is wasted heat loss.


I had a look at these too but decided not, for all the reasons you state. Except the heat loss thing - the whole point is fan assisted batch burning which is highly efficient compared to other ways. The only problem being that it doesn't work well on demand so you have to store the heat. In spite of which it is still supposed to be highly efficient.
Went instead for a Dowling Sumo which is pure space heating and burns any old rubbish. But very dry hardwood is definitely the best.
Back up with gas CH. 
Electricity is becoming the green energy of choice , with solar, wind, tide generation.


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## ColeyS1 (25 Feb 2017)

Put on an extra layer when it's chilly and have a few extra whiskeys.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

RogerS":1qmx35er said:


> Regardless as to whether or not one has access to 'free' or low-cost logs, the fact still remains that you're beholden to The Beast to keep feeding its voracious appetite. Day in. Day out. Night in. Oh, it's out.



How often do you have to feed it?


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

bugbear":3oa8vsfi said:


> Beau":3oa8vsfi said:
> 
> 
> > Might be of interest http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison.
> ...


Yes it's a tricky one. In the medium term it's close to to Co2 neutral but in the short term it's not as trees take 20-100 years to grow. Mind you someone pointed out to me oil and coal are Co2 neutral if you play the long game


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## RogerS (25 Feb 2017)

Beau":lkfariyl said:


> RogerS":lkfariyl said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless as to whether or not one has access to 'free' or low-cost logs, the fact still remains that you're beholden to The Beast to keep feeding its voracious appetite. Day in. Day out. Night in. Oh, it's out.
> ...



Four times a day. A wheelbarrow full+ each time.


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## Jacob (25 Feb 2017)

Beau":2d4fu3wj said:


> ...l but in the short term it's not as trees take 20-100 years to grow. ...


Beside the point. To be carbon neutral you only need to have weight of trees growing at the same rate as they are being consumed, whether or not they are year old saplings ( a lot of them) or 200 year old oak trees (just a few). But wood can't supply current demand by a long chalk - there isn't the space. Growing wood for burning is a means of absorbing solar energy to be released later as heat, but photo voltaic panels are far more efficient as far as I know - I wonder what the figures are?


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

Ouch! can see why that's a bind.

Surprised you have to have than many burns. Most of the systems I see need feeding once or twice a day. Is it undersized hence all the fuelling or part of the design?


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

Wood pellet boilers don't cost anywhere near 30k even inc fitting. As they modulate relatively quickly compared to a pile of logs then you don't need a huge heat store. My all singing dancing auto log and pellet boiler including heat store, expansion tank and fitting is much less than 30k. With RHI it would have paid for itself over 7 years but now its been reduced so RHI just about pays for installation over 7 year.


The house is ancient and has rubble filled stone walls so I have lined all exterior walls with kingspan backed plasterboard, 50mm or more.

I would agree that a conventional wood boiler is a faff for full house heating though, but some people don't mind the hassle.


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## RogerS (25 Feb 2017)

Beau":1homw1rl said:


> Ouch! can see why that's a bind.
> 
> Surprised you have to have than many burns. Most of the systems I see need feeding once or twice a day. Is it undersized hence all the fuelling or part of the design?




Undersized. But even if it was right sized, it might need less fuellings but each one would take longer!


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## Beau (25 Feb 2017)

Jacob":q33ytowj said:


> Beau":q33ytowj said:
> 
> 
> > ...l but in the short term it's not as trees take 20-100 years to grow. ...
> ...



But they absorb more as they get older. So 100 acres of saplings don's absorb as much as 100 acres of mature forest. Pretty sure there is a lot of complaints from forester's that there is little or no effort being put into planting at the moment and it's all hands to the pump for harvesting (UK)


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## Terry - Somerset (25 Feb 2017)

As a personal decision it seems to depend on whether you (a) are motivated to put in the extra work, and (b) have a ready supply of cheap or no cost timber.

From a national perspective biomass can make but a small contribution to our energy needs, but the implication that it could replace conventional generation is a nonsense - some UK power stations currently import biomass from N America because there is not enough available in the UK. Demands for increasing % of biofuels has also driven up food costs as land is switched to corn/fuel production, not food.


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## Jacob (25 Feb 2017)

RogerS":1npnescw said:


> Beau":1npnescw said:
> 
> 
> > RogerS":1npnescw said:
> ...


For space heating alone (big space - converted chapel 3000ft^2) out Dowling Sumo wouldn't take that much. Having a boiler and heat storage set up which is too small completely defeats the object. Dismantle it and sell on ebay, get a proper old fashioned fire going (middle of floor - hole in roof!)


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## graduate_owner (25 Feb 2017)

People who already process and burn their own logs will already know this, but for those readers thinking of installing any kind of log burner, be aware that it can be a LOT of work.
About 5 years ago a neighbouring farmer was taking down old trees in some of his hedges and offered me whatever I wanted. Brilliant, being so close. So, trailer behind compact tractor, chainsaw and protective gear in trailer and off to go.
I was lucky in that I could get the tractor and trailer right next to the trees.
1. Cut felled trees into manageable size and load into trailer.
2. Drive trailer load back home and unload. 
Repeat for dozens, if not scores, of trailer loads, while the ground is dry enough for the tractor and the trees are available.
3. Cut tree sections into logs
4. Split logs and put into store.
5 .after a year of drying, put split logs from store into sacks and take to house.
6. transfer logs from sacks to log basket and use as needed.

We fed our lounge woodburner for a 2 whole winters, just using oil for early morning and just before bed heating, plus hot water. It saved us literally hundreds of pounds, quite a few hundreds, when oil was 60+ pence per litre, so well worth doing. Also I was retired so had time in the day to do it. Not everyone will need to do every stage but still, a LOT of handling. If you have to travel any appreciable to get the logs, or if you have limited access to tools (as in needing to put logs in boot of car, no chain saw, have to barrow logs from tree to car because no tractor to get onto field etc) then things could be much more time consuming. 
Not trying to put people off what could be a good source of cheap fuel, but be aware before you buy a woodburner.

K


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## Farmer Giles (25 Feb 2017)

Totally agree with the need for proper tools. I do have a large hydraulic splitter but my tractor to drive is in bits so I use my neighbours tractor for now. It's ok for the odd tree but you wouldn't want to do much more with it too slow. Here's the start of this years logs that I started collecting last year. Using IBC cages means I can stack them with the pallet forks on the bobcat. The bobcat can just lift a full cage of unseasoned wood but is small enough to sneak down the alley at the side of the house.







Here's the boiler, not my installation I hasten to add, but identical to mine including heat stores






Here's the boiler house being built, there want any room in the house so built it around the back of the house after excavating about 200 tonnes of mainly shale and sandstone.






And nearly finished.


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## graduate_owner (25 Feb 2017)

Nice log store. So often we see bare concrete block structures, functional but so ugly.

K


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## RogerS (25 Feb 2017)

Looks very tidy, FG.

And then there's The Beast



 





Also get diddly-squat support from the distributor.


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## Farmer Giles (26 Feb 2017)

That is a bit a beast Roger. With the reduction of RHI and the slowing of oil prices increases, a lot of renewable heat companies have gone to the wall. So you can get bargain equipment but naff all support.

The guy I bought mine from used to have 20 employees, now he is virtually a one man band.


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## Jacob (28 Feb 2017)

Just an afterthought: looking at the cost effectiveness of alternative installations; spend money on insulation first.
Value for money in order of precedence; roof, walls, floors, partitions between rooms, draught proofing, curtains/shutters, windows. NB windows last - it works out as less cost effective than the others, which surprises many, though of course it's very variable according to the building details
Came to this conclusion after a lot of back of envelope calculations. We were look at batch burners, heat stores etc but instead went for insulation in a big way, with conventional gas CH and a stand alone wood burning room heater. If all else fails we can use the woodburner, but if you have a hi tec fan assisited boiler, with pumps etc, it will be useless if the leccy goes off.


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## RobinBHM (28 Feb 2017)

The difficulty in the UK is upgrading our housing stock for improved thermal efficiency. For a homeowner in an oldish house once the basics are done like loft and wall insulation is done and draughts are sealed, LED bulbs. the next items such as floors, windows, walls all cost serious money and in many cases cant be done without reducing room sizes or altering appearance.

For example houses pre 1980s wont have any insulation in the floor at all. To improve floor insulation in a solid floor means a lot of cost and disruption, gunning up the floor, reduced dig, removing spoil then insulation and screed.


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## Jacob (28 Feb 2017)

RobinBHM":i24qqc6p said:


> The difficulty in the UK is upgrading our housing stock for improved thermal efficiency. For a homeowner in an oldish house once the basics are done like loft and wall insulation is done and draughts are sealed, LED bulbs. the next items such as floors, windows, walls all cost serious money and in many cases cant be done without reducing room sizes or altering appearance.
> .....


Yes may not be practicable.
It could be worth reducing room sizes though, on external walls at least. Looking at it the other way - if your walls were already lined with 4" insulation would you think it a good idea to remove it and gain 4" (or 8") on the room dimensions?


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## Sheffield Tony (28 Feb 2017)

Jacob":22xlmxx5 said:


> RobinBHM":22xlmxx5 said:
> 
> 
> > The difficulty in the UK is upgrading our housing stock for improved thermal efficiency. For a homeowner in an oldish house once the basics are done like loft and wall insulation is done and draughts are sealed, LED bulbs. the next items such as floors, windows, walls all cost serious money and in many cases cant be done without reducing room sizes or altering appearance.
> ...



That sounds like a good argument, but when you _add_ insulation your furniture might not fit anymore ! A bedroom shorter than a bed is not much use.


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## heimlaga (28 Feb 2017)

Graduate Owner knows what he is talking about.

To make wood heating worthwhile you need proper equipment and the necressary skills to do it efficiently.
We use wood for roundabout haf our annual heating needs and I often process timber starting from growing trees. 
For that we have two chainsaws (Husqvarna 42 and Husqvarna 353) with all the safety gear that belongs to them, A tractor (Massey-Ferguson 165) equipped with logging winch and log trailer and a hydraulic log splitter that splits metre long logs at least up to 35 cm in diametre. Two bark knives for removing two strips of bark from thin logs. A big splitting axe and a small splitting axe and a sledgehammer and a few iron wedges for logs too thing for the splitter. A log tong and a pickaroon

The picture shows a trailer load of sawlogs but you get an idea of what efficient wood handling is about.

I am an advocate of reforestation of all unused land that has been wooded in the past as a means of reducing oil dependancy and reducing pollution. Focusing on production of good quality timber with firewood as a byproduct. Locally grown sawn timber is a construction material which emits very little carbon dioxide during production compared to steel or concrete while locally grown firewood burned in well designed burners is a cheap source of reasonably clean energy.
Wood is just a too good material to turn into pulp used to make half empty cerals boxes and to fill every mailbox with advertising flyers.


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## RogerS (28 Feb 2017)

Mmmm..so I need to go and buy some woodland, a couple of tractors, some log processing stuff.....

But I STILL have to shove the bloody logs into the boiler. I still have to struggle to relight it when we've been away for a couple of days. I gave up tonight.

On the other hand.....oil. Switch ON. Job done !


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2017)

RogerS":1btajuc9 said:


> Mmmm..so I need to go and buy some woodland, a couple of tractors, some log processing stuff.....
> 
> But I STILL have to shove the bloody logs into the boiler. I still have to struggle to relight it when we've been away for a couple of days. I gave up tonight.
> 
> On the other hand.....oil. Switch ON. Job done !


They are a bit like solid fuel Agas - they work if they are going but you need back up for when they are not. Once you have the back up you find it's cheaper to install, cheaper to run, much more convenient, does everything the Aga did and QED you don't need the Aga.

Not that much energy is needed for hot water for purposes other than space heating so we thought for us it makes sense to have a conventional source; gas, electricity (especially if you have solar panels) for hot water but a quick response woodburner for space heating. 
We got Dowling Sumo - it burns dry wood, reclaimed wood, off-cuts, mdf, chipboard, demolition stuff, cardboard, saw dust etc. and heats up in minutes. Will burn paper but it makes too much ash. 
Will heat the whole place by strategically opening and closing doors. Gas for hot water and CH back up.


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## Droogs (1 Mar 2017)

Jacob,
that's prbly the coolest burner I've seen ever. Should be placed exactly in the centre of any livingroom


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2017)

Droogs":1sae16h4 said:


> Jacob,
> that's prbly the coolest burner I've seen ever. Should be placed exactly in the centre of any livingroom


And so it is, almost - middle of the back wall not the centre of the room.

The pyramid shape is good for burning sawdust. I can fill it tight with 3 coal hods of dust and light it on top. Sawdust burns from the top - can't burn from the bottom as it stops all air ingress from below. 
Also the width and wide front door means you can put big pieces of mdf etc in sideways on.
Also it's welded steel rather than cast iron and is maintenance free - though I suppose it could be damaged by over firing but we've had another one for about 10 years with zero maintenance, as compared to £50 a year or more for previous cast iron stove needing new baffles, firebricks etc, every year.

PS the best place for any heat source is the centre of the house - ideally the main living room. Those installations in sheds are missing a trick and must waste a lot of heat. Even our gas combi boiler spills a bit of heat and its position is important.
Space heating costs most.


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## Farmer Giles (1 Mar 2017)

I've got 3 dowlings, none with back boiler though. I have a sumo in the living room, a hybrid in the kitchen and a firebug in the wife's workshop. Only used for secondary heating and power-cuts now but great bits of kit.

I agree that placing the wood boiler in the middle of the house would be ideal but I don't think the missus would like the 250kg hopper blocking out the TV


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## Beau (1 Mar 2017)

Farmer Giles":37rpxz5k said:


> I've got 3 dowlings, none with back boiler though. I have a sumo in the living room, a hybrid in the kitchen and a firebug in the wife's workshop. Only used for secondary heating and power-cuts now but great bits of kit.
> 
> I agree that placing the wood boiler in the middle of the house would be ideal but I don't think the missus would like the 250kg hopper blocking out the TV




Do you get a good secondary combustion with the Dowlings? Looks like they are just bare steel inside with no fire brick.


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2017)

Beau":3g1dktlw said:


> Farmer Giles":3g1dktlw said:
> 
> 
> > I've got 3 dowlings, none with back boiler though. I have a sumo in the living room, a hybrid in the kitchen and a firebug in the wife's workshop. Only used for secondary heating and power-cuts now but great bits of kit.
> ...


Yes bare steel. Don't know about 2ary combustion.


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## Beau (1 Mar 2017)

Yes bare steel. Don't know about 2ary combustion.[/quote]

Hope this is correct but think secondary combustion is when the gases given off from the wood ignite in the air above the logs. If the stove is not very hot these gases go up the flue unburnt wasting a lot of potential energy. It's why a lot of modern stoves are lines with insulated bricks and then have a top air feed.


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2017)

Beau":1q8t1hko said:


> Yes bare steel. Don't know about 2ary combustion.



Hope this is correct but think secondary combustion is when the gases given off from the wood ignite in the air above the logs. If the stove is not very hot these gases go up the flue unburnt wasting a lot of potential energy. It's why a lot of modern stoves are lines with insulated bricks and then have a top air feed.[/quote]
I thought it was the old cast iron stoves which needed the bricks to protect the metal.


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## Beau (1 Mar 2017)

Jacob":28qkb25p said:


> I thought it was the old cast iron stoves which needed the bricks to protect the metal.



Don't think so but freely admit to not being a stove expert. Our current stove was bare cast inside. It was good when being thrashed but when we didn't want so much heat so throttled it back it would soot up the glass and just not work as designed. I fitted it with some insulated fire sheets to the back and sides as a bit of an experiment but it works much better now with a lovely rolling flame and the glass remains clean due to the higher temperature in the fire box.


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Mar 2017)

I have a small Dowlings - a Little Devil, I have a b/b for it but haven't had it fitted as the new tank has to go into the roof. As the others , bare steel. One good thing apart from total lack of ongoing maintenance costs is that the heat is there within minutes. It has quite good secondary combustion so long as the wood is quite dry. If you read the Dowlings site info the multi fuel stoves are uneconomic if you burn only wood, as the vents for a wood stove come in on top and for a multi fuel or coal/coke come in underneath. I have seen multi fuels in NZ that have both, so you can jiggle them to suit what you're burning at any time. I assume you must be able to get them in this Country.


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## sawdust1 (1 Mar 2017)

heimlaga, i see your burning softwood, over here its hard to convert people from burning hardwood.
I sell Douglas fir and Spruce logs some like it and some don't and ask for hardwood logs instead which
i can also supply. I explain that softwood is what they burn over your neck of the woods and all over
eastern europe.

jacob, the house we live in came with an Aga, we put up with that oil guzzling monstrosity for 22 year
befor i cut it up for scrap. It never reached temperature, rumbled like a train, smelt of oil and cost a
fortune to run. The only positive it kept the kitchen hot especially the summer and heated the hot water.

As we own and live in 23acres of woodland i looked into installing a wood heating system, it was just to
expensive, and as the house has no insulation and only single glazing being over 400 years old we would not
pass the energy certificate to be eligible for RHI payments.
Even looked into fitting a back boiler to our woodburner, but the work involved keeping it going 24/7 to keep
the system up to temperature was to much hassle.
Oil although at the moment is fairly cheap it is the easiest option.


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