# Joints for non right-angled frames



## Orion801 (13 Feb 2013)

Hi,

I had a quick search on the forums for an answer to this but surprisingly couldn't find anything (must not have been searching for the right phrase). Basically I'm looking into helping a colleague at work make a bird cage based around a wooden frame for some small parrots as in the picture below:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Qyyj80DNPws/T ... mighty.jpg

I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions as to how you would make the joins at the angled sections along the top and bottom, preferably utilising a stronger joint than just a standard mitre. As well as this how would you then go about joining the vertical sections to these points (I'm thinking some sort of mortice and tenon but imagine it would get a bit tricky dealing with all the angles).

Hopefully you can work out what I'm asking, not sure I've done the best job of explaining it! Thanks in advance for any help.


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## marcros (13 Feb 2013)

i would make the vertical pieces angled and the full height. they would have 5 sides to them, the 2 angles that you see from the outside, 2 returns, and a piece across the back that is inside the cage. They would need carefully marking out and probably a jig to cut them correctly. Then just do a mortice and tenon into each side. The mortice and tenon would be at 90 degrees to the vertical, so would be quite straightforward. You could pin it with a dowel if you chose. The piece top and bottom would just be a decorative moulding, mitred, glued and pinned.


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## Graham Orm (13 Feb 2013)

M&T will be fiddly. How about mitres with loose tongues? Cut a slot in the end of each piece after mitering and then cut loose tongues to fit these slots. It will give you a much bigger glue area and be nowhere near as fiddly as ting M&T joints on something this small. Once your base & top are finished, connect your uprights with dowels?


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## marcros (13 Feb 2013)

or mortice and tenons with loose tenons. 

how big is the item, i had assumed that it was quite big


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## Graham Orm (13 Feb 2013)

marcros":2kbjnuvo said:


> or mortice and tenons with loose tenons.
> 
> how mig is the item, i had assumed that it was quite big



If it's a birdcage marcos it will be made of thin section surely too thin to be cutting mortices ? :?


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## marcros (14 Feb 2013)

i had assumed it was more substantial than just that, given the size of the parrot in the picture.


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## Orion801 (14 Feb 2013)

It would be fairly sizeable but not as big as the one in the picture. The back panel would be roughly the size of a standard door. I quite like the idea of angling the vertical pieces, I'm sure I could come up with a way of doing this using the table saw and some sort of jig if needed.

Thanks very much for all the suggestions!


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## Eric The Viking (26 Feb 2013)

I think it isn't, but... 

... if this _is_ for Blue+Gold Macaws, per the picture, it should be basically regarded as a chew-toy, rather than a cage. They'll destroy it in weeks, days possibly.

I've kept parrots in the past 

Seriously, a couple of thoughts:

Firstly, the wood you use needs to be safe for the birds, and some species (of wood) are quite poisonous. If in doubt, fruit wood is safe. We gave ours a walnut branch as a climbing tree, which was fine. Be careful about the finishes, too. Some things, for example PTFE fumes from Teflon cookware, can be instantly fatal to parrots, although they don't have anything like the same effect on humans. If it's "food-safe" as a glue or a finish, it's probably OK for birds, but not always. Their metabolic rate is much higher than ours, so they are affected far more quickly by toxins. That's why surprising things are fatal to them - the reaction is so fast.

Whatever you build _will_ be chewed and fully 'explored' by the bird(s), so things like plywood must be used in a way that the laminations can't be pulled apart to expose the glue. MDF is also a poor choice because of the Formaldehyde glue used. The UK Parrot Society can advise on woods and finishes to avoid.

It's also important to make sure the 'litter tray' is really well sealed (two-pack polyurethane, for example), so that it can be washed thoroughly. Birds pick up fungal infections fairly easily, and those love to live at the bottom of a cage. If you are doing a slide-out tray, give it something like a 'drawer slip' above the lip, so that muck can't fall down between the tray and the sides. It's much easier to keep clean, and healthier for the bird.

When she was tired in the evenings, Charlie, our hen bird, used to go into her cage and pull the door closed after her. She was pretty adept at opening it too, if it wasn't properly closed, although she lived outside her cage and was free-flying. Whatever door catch arrangement you use, make sure it's beak-proof!

On the simple matter of joints, floating tenon seems easiest - either biscuits or dominoes or just ply. I've recently made an octagonal bird table with finger joints. It worked eventually, but I wouldn't want to repeat it!

Hope that helps.

E.


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