# I have finished my oak conservatory!!!



## mpooley (23 Sep 2008)

Hi all.
after about 5 months hard work - mainly at weekends I have finished it, so I thought you might like to see some pictures. I have too many to show here so i have posted a selection if anyone wants to see more ill have to find out how to let you view my photobucket album.

main frame and doors are made from Oak but the roof is made from douglas fir to keep movement to the minimum.

Oh and sorry about the blurry thumbprints 

I hope you like it :lol:


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## Gary S (23 Sep 2008)

Wow - it's stunning. If only my wife would let me attempt somthing like that...!


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## wizer (23 Sep 2008)

Mike it's nothing short of beautiful! Well done, I'm sure you are very proud of it.


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## filsgreen (23 Sep 2008)

Beautiful job mate, well done!! =D>


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## Lord Nibbo (23 Sep 2008)

Absolutely stunning. The mix of traditional timber frame and modern plate glass is perfection.
=D> =D> =D>


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## mpooley (23 Sep 2008)

Wow thanks

I am rather proud of it - now even more so!


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## gidon (23 Sep 2008)

Mike - beautiful - well done!
Cheers
Gidon


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## Chris_belgium (23 Sep 2008)

Absolutely beautifull!!

How did you cut the mortices and tenons on big pieces like that? Planning on building a driveway gate, two big garage doors, couple of single doors,... And am looking for a 'quick' way to cut accurate m&t other than using a jig and rout them.


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## MikeG. (23 Sep 2008)

That looks really lovely, Mike.........well done!!

Just a quick question, though. Do you have Building Regs approval for that (as it appears to be open to the rest of the house, and it is very hard to show compliance with the regs in these circumstances)?

If you haven't, I reckon your next job is a whole lot of internal doors in a folding screen...!!  

Mike


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## mpooley (23 Sep 2008)

Chris_belgium":u6w12g6u said:


> Absolutely beautifull!!
> 
> How did you cut the mortices and tenons on big pieces like that? Planning on building a driveway gate, two big garage doors, couple of single doors,... And am looking for a 'quick' way to cut accurate m&t other than using a jig and rout them.



Thanks
I made a couple of jigs and used a router. The size of the timber precluded anything else. :shock:


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## mpooley (23 Sep 2008)

Mike Garnham":19l0f02h said:


> That looks really lovely, Mike.........well done!!
> 
> Just a quick question, though. Do you have Building Regs approval for that (as it appears to be open to the rest of the house, and it is very hard to show compliance with the regs in these circumstances)?
> 
> ...


thanks!
No I didnt but the intention is to glaze the wall into the kitchen and have double french doors but im exhausted with it at the moment -I have the timber all cut and ready but i am rebuilding the whole kitchen in oak so it might get done then :wink:

also the design was changed a bit when i ordered the glass and its made it more difficult to glaze the top between kitchen and conservatory - so that will be a pipper! if.....


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## OPJ (23 Sep 2008)

Absolutely stunning, Mike! :shock: Fantastic, well done!


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## Ironballs (23 Sep 2008)

Well, it's not bad I suppose...


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## Raggy (23 Sep 2008)

Very nice


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## Tierney (23 Sep 2008)

outstanding by itself, and also looks great with the house. My wife did see it and said she wants one.

David


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## Rich (23 Sep 2008)

I'm speechless, fantastic, a pleasure to look at and admire, you must be very proud, and so you should be,  , I'm going to dismantle my greenhouse and start again, (only joking) the joinery is most edifying, well done and thanks for sharing it with us.

Regards,

Rich.


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## joiner_sim (23 Sep 2008)

Looks absolutley fantastique! :lol:


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## MikeG. (23 Sep 2008)

Mike,

is your beam over the kitchen opening deflecting under the point-load of the post........or was it a bit bent to start with? 

I would be interested to know how you glazed this, because you will know as well as anyone that this oak is going to shrink and move all over the place, particularly as it is a conservatory, and that will potentially cause difficulties with the glazing. This isn't being picky...........I'm sure you have allowed for this movement.........I'm just interested in what detail you used. 

I also notice your low-level sockets.......have the wires come up from the plate below, or down from the top? Did you run the rebate for the wires behind the door frame mouldings? Finally, did you use pattination oil on your lead, to save a bit of staining on the oak?

Anyway, well done again..........I really like this.

Mike


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## Woodmagnet (24 Sep 2008)

Excellent Mike, a first class job.


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## milkman (24 Sep 2008)

very good, a real economy of form that lends itself to the glazing well.

How did you fit the glazing in the end? 

BTW try to avoid ANY heating in this room for as long as you can stand [i'm talking in years here]. The slower that oak dries the happier your joints and glazing will be.

===time passes=====

Oh looks like you've surface mounted it. Excellent!


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## mpooley (24 Sep 2008)

Mike Garnham":a3az64wq said:


> Mike,
> 
> is your beam over the kitchen opening deflecting under the point-load of the post........or was it a bit bent to start with?
> 
> ...



I dont think the beam is sagging it is not perfectly straight thats for sure but i dont think there is much wieght on it to be honest.
I glazed it externally using softwood battens letting the glass float and then capping it with oak. 
Thats how the wiring was done too. double rows of batten with trunking fed down from the top between them and then drilled through from the outside.

No patination :shock: 

Thanks

Mike


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## mpooley (24 Sep 2008)

milkman":2noi2qhw said:


> very good, a real economy of form that lends itself to the glazing well.
> 
> How did you fit the glazing in the end?
> 
> ...


Thanks Milkman
and for your advice at the beginning.

I doubt if the Mrs will allow me not to heat it.( i have installed underfloor heating)
the oak was 3 years old except for the kiln dried stuff. so Im hoping the worst of the movement will be over :shock:


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## dicktimber (24 Sep 2008)

Make my Gazebo look sad!!!!!

Excellent!!!
Mike


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## CWatters (24 Sep 2008)

I'm also interested in thos big M&T. Did you use a chain morticer?


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## shim20 (24 Sep 2008)

looks awsome, very nice work.


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## mpooley (25 Sep 2008)

CWatters":251ptziv said:


> I'm also interested in thos big M&T. Did you use a chain morticer?



thanks everyone  

my wife says please stop cos my head is big enough already  

but i say keep it coming    

to answer the question no i used a router and 60mm straight cutter and a jig i knocked up. 
would have been nice to had a chain morticer though 

Mike


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## milkman (25 Sep 2008)

mikepooley":1ya2qila said:


> milkman":1ya2qila said:
> 
> 
> > very good, a real economy of form that lends itself to the glazing well.
> ...



Was just at Frame 2008 last weekend with lots of timber framers. One of them gave a talk on glazing frames and his main bugbear was heating. You'll be pleased to know that underfloor heating was his preferred method.


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## motownmartin (25 Sep 2008)

WOW


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## Imperial (25 Sep 2008)

Admiration from me, with just a smidgen of jealousy!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## digitalbot (25 Sep 2008)

Jealous isn't the word! :twisted: 
And not only because it looks fantastic but because i'll probably never aquire the necessary skills to build something like that myself.

Knowing almost nothing about this sort of thing, how would you attach something like that to the base, if indeed it is attached?
And what was your rough budget for the something like that if I may be so bold as to ask?


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## deanflyer (25 Sep 2008)

Really nice work - I love the chunkiness of it, combined with the open glazing.

I have a conservatory to rebuild, unfortunately I cant stretch to oak!!


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## seaco (25 Sep 2008)

That's truly beautiful, well done... :wink:


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## johnf (25 Sep 2008)

Excellent job I am jealous =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## mpooley (26 Sep 2008)

digitalbot":193cffsh said:


> Jealous isn't the word! :twisted:
> And not only because it looks fantastic but because i'll probably never aquire the necessary skills to build something like that myself.
> 
> Knowing almost nothing about this sort of thing, how would you attach something like that to the base, if indeed it is attached?
> And what was your rough budget for the something like that if I may be so bold as to ask?



its actually not attached at all :shock: 

Im hoping the weight of the thing will be enough :roll: 

about £22000.00 in all but that includes everything, floor tiles, underfloor heating, electric velux windows, very expensive door mechanisms etc etc.
Glass was over £7500.00 :shock: 
leadwork was £1100.00 it soon adds up!! 
I did the vast majority of it myself just got a roofer mate to do the leadwork.

I honestly think that the skills needed are fairly basic, I mean a few mortices and tenons and its done
:roll: 

Mike


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## devonwoody (26 Sep 2008)

Glass £7K, could have cut the cost down with sidings and a thatched roof  

Very nice.


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## mpooley (26 Sep 2008)

devonwoody":18hg4in2 said:


> Glass £7K, could have cut the cost down with sidings and a thatched roof
> 
> Very nice.



yeah a lot cheaper to do it like that.

not a lot of sunshine in it though


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## lurker (26 Sep 2008)

Wow!!

Brilliant design
Brilliant workmanship

I think I'll give up and take up knitting


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## Simon (26 Sep 2008)

Great job Mike it looks fantastic, I have kept looking for your post in anticipation

I was also at Frame at the weekend, so we probably met or saw each other. You must have been pleased to hear the talks on glazing and designing for shrinkage and it looks like you made lots of the right decisions, especially with regard to using oak that had been sat around for a while. 

My only observation would be that your tenons look a tad short, however because of the age of the oak you may get away with it. The amount of oak beyond the peg in the tenon (referred to as the relish....not quite sure why) is the limiting factor of joints in tension. Additionally if you draw bore you can blow out the relish if it is too short. For that reason a usual rule of thumb would be a couple of inches of relish beyond the peg. As you didn't use green oak I am hoping that isn't going to be a problem for you. Just keep that place ventilated and hopefully give us all an update on how it ages.


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## mpooley (27 Sep 2008)

Simon":262dmcn7 said:


> Great job Mike it looks fantastic, I have kept looking for your post in anticipation
> 
> I was also at Frame at the weekend, so we probably met or saw each other. You must have been pleased to hear the talks on glazing and designing for shrinkage and it looks like you made lots of the right decisions, especially with regard to using oak that had been sat around for a while.
> 
> My only observation would be that your tenons look a tad short, however because of the age of the oak you may get away with it. The amount of oak beyond the peg in the tenon (referred to as the relish....not quite sure why) is the limiting factor of joints in tension. Additionally if you draw bore you can blow out the relish if it is too short. For that reason a usual rule of thumb would be a couple of inches of relish beyond the peg. As you didn't use green oak I am hoping that isn't going to be a problem for you. Just keep that place ventilated and hopefully give us all an update on how it ages.



No it was milkman who went to the show not me - I never even heard of it  
the tenons were 50mm which was the deepest i could manage with a router bit- almost all of the tenons are vertical so gravity is helping but im not sure why it would be a problem anyway as im no expert believe me.
is it because of shrinkage?
also i didnt draw bore.

I am strictly an amature - i just read a couple of books and plunged in head first :roll: 

Mike


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## Simon (27 Sep 2008)

Apologies I misread the post....doh

The basic theory is that joints are under tension when the joint elements are trying to pull themselves apart. So in the case of a brace under side load (like wind) the M&T joints will be under tension and compression (depending upon the direction of wind load). Simply this means that one M&T is being compressed (so no real problem), at the same time the opposite M&T is trying to pull itself apart. At this point much of the load is being taken by the pieces of the tenon behind the oak peg, so if this piece of tenon is too short it can break along the grain. 

The easiest way to imagine this is a roof truss with a basic "A" shape, if you place this "A" frame upright on a piece of glass and press down on the tip of the A. The frame will be held together by the cross / horizontal tie (which is holding the two legs of the A from splaying out across the glass). As the top of the "A" is loaded the tenons on the ends of the tie are both being extracted from the mortices, so you are relying on the peg to hold the joint together and by design the timber behind the peg on the tenon.

Loading can be caused by wind or static load (heavy snow for example). Excessive shrinkage and poorly executed joint carpentry could load a joint and draw boring too.

The main messages of the glazing talk at the weekend were:
*accuracy of joinery* making it difficult to fit the glazing in the first place. I don't think you have a problem here as your frame looks more like cabinet making standard than framing 

*choice of timber* - frames are being made from very green oak rather than oak that has been sat around for a few years to allow the cell structure to harden.

*heat and ventilation* - most people choose lots of glass in timber frames, which looks good but can lead to excessive heat build up. Don't overheat the frame within the first few years, allow the timber to shrink gradually and ensure good ventilation....keep those roof vents open

the design for shrinkage talk reiterated the use of oak that had had time to "harden" which reduces shrinkage and timber placement within frames to avoid known timber shrinkage characteristics from interfering with the building as it ages


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## skipdiver (29 Sep 2008)

Just beautiful.Been thinking of building an oak conservatory when my workshop is complete.Lately started leaning toward a uPVC one for ease but am now inspired by yours to have a go.

Lovely job.


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## mpooley (29 Sep 2008)

skipdiver":2vyvf212 said:


> Just beautiful.Been thinking of building an oak conservatory when my workshop is complete.Lately started leaning toward a uPVC one for ease but am now inspired by yours to have a go.
> 
> Lovely job.



Have a Go!  

you are welcome to have a look at mine if you wanted to.

Mike


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## Woodfinish Man (2 Oct 2008)

Just have to say, wow, that really is beautifully done. 

WM


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## mpooley (2 Oct 2008)

Woodfinish Man":2o1sg6s8 said:


> Just have to say, wow, that really is beautifully done.
> 
> WM


Thankyou

and to all that have commented  

I must say im glad you all like it  

Mike


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## CWatters (2 Oct 2008)

digitalbot":3ccjncwt said:


> .. how would you attach something like that to the base, if indeed it is attached?



I'm just starting on a timber framed outbuilding, nothing that quality but... 

I decided to fix it down using stainless steel studding set into the concrete. Someone here suggested it. Got the studding off ebay with some large square SS washers and nuts. Made it up into 18" long "bolts". Poured the concrete and levelled it. Then used a garden trowel to make a hole and planted them them in "head" first down to the hardcore. Gave them a little shake like you would planting a tree and the concrete settled around them. Just had to smooth the surface a bit with a float. They stood up on their own while the concrete set. Later these will stick up through the single brick plinth and the bottom of the frame. Would cut them down and plug the holes if exposed. 

PS The bolts sticking up from the concrete would be lethal if you fell on them. I have some perforated bricks and just stacked four over each.


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## The_Stig (2 Oct 2008)

Thats really nice, what sort of allowance have you made for the heat being greater internally and therefore causing the timber to move slightly? I know that we usually recommend kiln-dried and then to have it sealed properly... its one of those things like doors and windows, on one side is the weather and the other side the cosy centrally heated room.


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## parlapa (2 Oct 2008)

Congratulations, very very nice


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## ProShop (2 Oct 2008)

Impresive 

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>






.


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## Lee Brubaker (2 Oct 2008)

Very nice Mike, a truly beautiful job. The problem we have in my location in Canada is that birds keep flying into the reflections of trees & shrubbery in the glass. Of course it kills them...which upsets the wife. This year I stuck a bunch of colored round decals on the glass & so far...no bird fatalities.

Lee


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## mpooley (2 Oct 2008)

The_Stig":3ad85i24 said:


> Thats really nice, what sort of allowance have you made for the heat being greater internally and therefore causing the timber to move slightly? I know that we usually recommend kiln-dried and then to have it sealed properly... its one of those things like doors and windows, on one side is the weather and the other side the cosy centrally heated room.



well a lot of it is kiln dried.
The rafters are KD douglas fir and all the outer glazing cladding , doors and frames are KD oak.
the main post and beam frame is assembled using 3yr old air dried oak in a traditional way and is oiled on the inside. The glazing is floating on the face of the main frame.


Im not sure if there was anything else i could do to be honest.

Mike


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## Escudo (4 Oct 2008)

Looks great Mike, well done. Very traditional, and in keeping with your house. Cheers, Tony.


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