# Drawer opening



## Starjump (20 Nov 2019)

Hello,
Could somebody please direct me to the WIP topic that 'AndyT' kindly posted on making a small shaker table. I have looked via the search function and 'Google', but to no avail. Thanks!

I wish to complete a desk/table that I started some years ago for my daughter. It is mainly a hand tool project, to build skills. It has suffered some dings in storage and a long delay, but being a nice piece of English cherry and for my daughter, I would like to complete it. 

The end frames are already glued. I am currently preparing to glue the back rail, the top bearer rail and drawer rail to the end frames to finish the carcass.

As things stand, the drawer opening will likely be 1mm wider at the front as my joinery is not spot on. I am wondering whether this can be left as is and be accommodated in the finished position of the drawer guides? I am not experienced in drawer making, hence I am reading and viewing what I can.

Thank you in advance and for any comments .


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## MikeG. (20 Nov 2019)

1mm is no problem at all and well within tolerances. It is easily accommodated in the runners, or in adjustments to the drawer box itself.


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## AndyT (20 Nov 2019)

Here's the thread

small-walnut-side-table-with-drawer-t109429.html?hilit=Walnut%20table

Mike is right, and so are you - you can make tweaks on the guides - but it's also recommended that you fit the top before fitting the drawer, in case tightening it down makes tiny twists in the undercarriage.

I hope you enjoy your build as much as I did - don't hesitate to share any questions on here as you go.


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## Starjump (20 Nov 2019)

Hi Mike and Andy,

Thank you very much for your replies. 

Andy - thanks for putting the WIP thread together - I remember reading and enjoying it some time ago. I have a top already put together with breadboard ends but it has moved a bit and back again(!), so your advice to tighten it down first makes perfect sense.


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## peter-harrison (21 Nov 2019)

I read somewhere (maybe Alan Peters' book)? That it's good practice to make your drawer housings a bit narrower at the back- that way you can make your drawers square and parallel and they will fit very nicely- tightening up slightly when they are pushed fully home.


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## AndyT (21 Nov 2019)

peter-harrison":2jhyv1s6 said:


> I read somewhere (maybe Alan Peters' book)? That it's good practice to make your drawer housings a bit narrower at the back- that way you can make your drawers square and parallel and they will fit very nicely- tightening up slightly when they are pushed fully home.



Ah, but should they be narrower or wider?  

If you have the patience, this question raised quite a few opinions when I asked it a while ago

fitting-drawers-wider-at-the-back-t88152.html


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## Starjump (7 May 2020)

Thanks for all of the replies. I have read the posts on drawer fitting Andy, quite a minefield!

AndyT thanks for your observation, that the top can distort the frame / carcass and should be fitted before making the drawer. 

I did have a problem though and it was to do with the nice flat top that I had made from a single width of English Cherry. It twisted in storage. This desk is a learning project that has taken years due to life getting in the way. Anyway, it was flat but had now twisted some.

I ruminated, (unfortunately a trait which often stops my progression dead in it's tracks), and decided to fit the top which was now less twisted after some more time(!), some wetting and cramping.

I have now glued up the table, it went together well and square, picture of table to date with some oil finish on it to keep me spurred on!


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## AndyT (7 May 2020)

That's looking good.

I reckon you are doing the right thing, taking your time and letting the wood settle.

(If I'm wrong and it moves again, that's another good excuse for slowness gone.)


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## Starjump (7 May 2020)

Thanks Andy.

After reading your post, I beefed up the top drawer rail with a glued and screwed block between it and the side rails.

I was aware that the top drawer rail had no mechanical strength in a vertical plane, the shoulders and dovetails constrain sideways movement. If the top was going to twist again in service I wanted to reinforce the joint to limit any tendency for it to lift out if the glue failed, hence the glued and screwed block.

Not ideal maybe, but hopefully it will add some longevity.


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## Starjump (7 May 2020)

The buttons are at the rear and the centre because I elected to fix the table top along the front edge, for aesthetic reasons.


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## woodbloke66 (7 May 2020)

AndyT":1a3y1d7a said:


> peter-harrison":1a3y1d7a said:
> 
> 
> > I read somewhere (maybe Alan Peters' book)? That it's good practice to make your drawer housings a bit narrower at the back- that way you can make your drawers square and parallel and they will fit very nicely- tightening up slightly when they are pushed fully home.
> ...


Ideally, the back of the opening should be a smidgeon wider than the front which is actually difficult to achieve using traditional joinery. I've widened an opening in the past by sticking some 150g sandpaper to a lump of pine and simply sanded it wider; it only needs to be 0.5mm each side which doesn't take long to do.
As I now make my drawers using the method set out by Rob Ingham, the drawer box is made smaller than the opening so the width of the back doesn't matter (as long as it's not narrower) - Rob


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## Starjump (7 May 2020)

Thank you Rob. I did look for the Robert Ingram book but it is out of print. There is much to learn!


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## Hornbeam (7 May 2020)

Hi Starjump. Are you fitting top runners to prevent the drawer from tipping once it is opened over halfway


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## Starjump (7 May 2020)

Hi Hornbeam,

I couldn't decide what to do with the runners and kickers. In the end, I made runners that are tenoned into the front lower drawer rail, glued to the side rails and a screw secures the runner to the rear leg that it is notched around. I then made spacers to prevent side to side movement of the drawer and glued them above the well secured runners clamping them in place then screwing them in from below, through the runners once the glue had dried.
I was trying to figure out how kickers go to stop the drawer falling out when open and allowing the buttons to have a space to go that was as close to the lateral limit as possible as there was twist to contend with in the table top.
I referred to a book by Ian Kirby, it shows a project table with a central kicker, bearing on a drawer with a full height back.
I made a central kicker tenoned both ends and glued it between the rear rail and the top drawer rail. This allowed for the buttons to go further outboard by the thickness of the kicker each side, probably irrelevant, but hey it is done now!

I am making this up as I go along and the mistakes are all part of it. But it does slow me down thinking through all of the design permutations. Next time I will search for a design I like and follow the plans. It will help me do more woodwork and less head scratching! #-o


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## AndyT (7 May 2020)

I can definitely sympathise with your experience.

If there are different options, I want to understand the pros and cons of each one, but it's quicker and less confusing just to do what I'm told.



Sometimes!


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## woodbloke66 (7 May 2020)

Starjump":3nzg3ipz said:


> Thank you Rob. I did look for the Robert Ingram book but it is out of print. There is much to learn!


Rob's book is well worth getting hold of if you can find a copy, but his stuff is very advanced so I have to read it several times to get the 'grey matter' round what he's saying and even then I struggle. However I did email him once about something and being a true scholar and a gentleman, he rang me up the next morning for a long natter on the 'phone - Rob


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