# Halloween Horror from Hell



## Richard T (1 Nov 2010)

....or: The worst plane I've ever seen.


Once upon a bootsale dreary,
Whilst we wandered weak and weary,
Around many a quaint and curious bucket of forgotten tatt ... enough of the Poe...

Anyway, we were at the car boot sale yesterday, and I spotted the profile of a long - sought rebate/carriage maker's/ No.10 type thing, on a stall, at the end of a line of the more usual suspects - Nos. 3,4,5 etc. 
I made a grab for it and (adopts Vincent Price voice) a feeling of blood-chilling horror washed through me as I realised the true monstrosity of what I cradled in my shaking hand. 
The following images were filmed in genuine spookyvision. (I'll have to type in the sound effects) 








At a distance, and if you squint, these could be ebony handles ... but no - they're plastic .... (clap of thunder)






This is no natural frog, this is a werefrog, made from second rate mechano .... ( wolf howls, more thunder)






And this poor, twisted creature is the lever cap and iron. (high pitched scream, children's choir, wolves, anything you like really..) 
The lever is die-cast, the iron looks like it fell out of an arthritic pencil sharpener. Monstrous!

After all the disembowling carnage, what's left ... 






Actually, quite a good rebate casting that, after I've found it some new body parts, could be some sort of doable infill project. 
Don't have nightmares...


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## jimi43 (1 Nov 2010)

You actually BOUGHT that!

:shock: :wink: 

Jim


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## Blister (1 Nov 2010)

jimi43":8y77nv5w said:


> You actually BOUGHT that!
> 
> :shock: :wink:
> 
> Jim



Blood curdling SCREAM :evil: 

I think they paid him to take it away , WAaaaaaaaa 

Still hopefully it will be put to use again with the new owner :wink:


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## Richard T (1 Nov 2010)

Well I did only get it for the casting. The offending or "accursed" parts will be exorcised and buried upside down with a hawthorn planted on top - or I might just put 'em in the bin. 
Then I will perform some kind of ghastly resurrection on it ... need to find/make a good T iron though ...


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## jimi43 (1 Nov 2010)

Richard T":1txnpj0f said:


> Well I did only get it for the casting. The offending or "accursed" parts will be exorcised and buried upside down with a hawthorn planted on top - or I might just put 'em in the bin.
> Then I will perform some kind of ghastly resurrection on it ... need to find/make a good T iron though ...



Ok Richard...I have to ask...how much?

 

Jim


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## Richard T (1 Nov 2010)

I'll tell you when I've finished it.


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## GazPal (1 Nov 2010)

:lol: I've just unearthed an old Paramo plane that spookily looks all too similar to your RB10. :shock: I hope it was my dad's unwanted birthday present and not something he'd picked up deliberately, but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually become collectables due to the present lack of interest in them.  

Does the RB10 have a similar variable blade/cutter pitch to the Paramor? 

I'm gonna keep this newly found gem pinned to the workshop wall as a sample of what I don't want my kids to buy me for Christmas. :lol:


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## Alf (1 Nov 2010)

I was just going to suggest that Richard'll be wanting a Paramo Planemaster to go with that...


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## yetloh (1 Nov 2010)

But it does have one redeeming feature - that angled front knob is very reminiscent of a Holtey 982, shame it's plastic mind.

Jim


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## Richard T (1 Nov 2010)

Oh good grief - more of 'em ... what a hideous breed. 
I just googled Paramo and found a picture of a boxed job that actually boasts on the front " the plane with the slot in blade!" "For the ejit with the slot in brain!" More like. 
I mean what were they thinking? Who were they?? And have they gone???
I hope so. 
But Stanley of all people .. Stanley Laurel perhaps ... No, would have had more sense. 
I'm still quite traumatised by this experience - I'll be all right in a bit.


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## john bossley (1 Nov 2010)

hi, please don't say anything to anyone but ohh gawd i've got one as well, anyone know how to resharpen the blades,only joking i might just bin it its totaly us what muppet thought that one up,jb. :twisted: :twisted:


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## GazPal (1 Nov 2010)

john bossley":wfrhvwwj said:


> hi, please don't say anything to anyone but ohh gawd i've got one as well, anyone know how to resharpen the blades,only joking i might just bin it its totaly us what muppet thought that one up,jb. :twisted: :twisted:



SB10 blades are available via Amazon and they fit both planes. I don't mind being an enabler, but just don't ask how I knew where to source them.   :lol:


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## LuptonM (1 Nov 2010)

At least it has a proper lateral adjuster. My dad has an Anant plane similar (but not a rebate) and its an absolute waste of space. You would spend forever trying to get the blade square


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## Richard T (1 Nov 2010)

Yep Jim, that was my thought when I stripped it - a turned brass spacer between cast protrusion and nice, wooden knob would look good thrown forward like that. 
Just had a quick look at ebay - more of 'em still. A Paramo, and another Stanley still in its original coffin; not used but rusty - they'd obviously tried sprinkling it with holy water - no bids for either surprisingly. 

Also been looking at blades for Stanley No.10 proper - £15 + £2.50 p+p from those very nice Iles People. So there's the first glimmer of hope. 

Gary, the rb10 and the paramo certainly look very similar .. but I'm scared to look again.


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## GazPal (1 Nov 2010)

No need to look Richard. :shock: The Paramo I uncovered had an SB10 blade already fitted. :lol: The Holy Water trick fails every time on these things. :lol: 

On the up side, the Paramo had a purpose made side fence in the box with it. I may give it a test drive on my Record #010 to see if it'll fit and how it works.


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## barkwindjammer (1 Nov 2010)

jimi43":1nljn1lp said:


> You actually BOUGHT that!
> 
> :shock: :wink:
> 
> Jim



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... llaugh.ogg


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## Richard T (2 Nov 2010)

Jack: They lie in wait like wolves. The smell of blood in their nostrils, waiting, interminably waiting ... and then ....

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... llaugh.ogg

Dougal: He's right Ted.


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## Vann (2 Nov 2010)

Richard T":1h62h6mz said:


> Also been looking at blades for Stanley No.10 proper - £15 + £2.50 p+p from those very nice Iles People. So there's the first glimmer of hope.


Note the RB10 is 2" wide, while the No.10 is 2 1/8" wide. How do I know? I had one too (said in meek voice). And you can get RB blades fron www.stanleytools.com too.

I sold mine - someone paid $NZ7.00 (about 3 UKP) for it - but before I parted with it, I too noted the nice casting. However I don't think I'm up to making an infil.

Cheers, Vann.


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## GazPal (2 Nov 2010)

Vann":2lwjlwkk said:


> Richard T":2lwjlwkk said:
> 
> 
> > Also been looking at blades for Stanley No.10 proper - £15 + £2.50 p+p from those very nice Iles People. So there's the first glimmer of hope.
> ...



Yes, the castings are nicely done on these things and I'm sorely tempted to attempt a conversion of my Paramo into either an infill or low angle plane with the capacity for rebating. I've a few nice pieces of Mahogany and a spare blades kicking about. Such a project may well help me past the shock of finding one. :wink:


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## Richard T (2 Nov 2010)

Aahh... Thanks Vann, I had my suspicions about this narsty thing being narrower - but 1/8" - that means grinding just 1/16" from either side and after all the face grinding I've been doing recently on old Marples and Wards, I think I could cope with that. 
And Gary it would be great to see a Paramo taught to see the error of its ways too. 
I would say something about saving their soles, but I'd better not.


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## AndyT (2 Nov 2010)

Am I allowed to point out that the Paramo Plane Master (like the equally derided Record 050 plough plane with the plastic handles) was _selected for the Design Centre? _

Does nobody else remember these?







(More info on their work here: http://vads.ahds.ac.uk/learning/dcsc/centre.html - it must have been a bit like looking up things on the web, except that you had to go to central London to do it.)


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## AndyT (2 Nov 2010)

It gets worse! further searching reveals another recipient of the coveted Design Centre badge - click if you dare:

http://vads.ahds.ac.uk/large.php?uid=58027&sos=0


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## GazPal (2 Nov 2010)

AndyT":3lfwi82z said:


> Am I allowed to point out that the Paramo Plane Master (like the equally derided Record 050 plough plane with the plastic handles) was _selected for the Design Centre? _
> 
> Does nobody else remember these?
> 
> ...



My Paramo has the same sticker on the side of it's plastic handle :shock:


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## Alf (2 Nov 2010)

A Design Centre award did tend to be useful shorthand for "Don't bother". They used to have an excellent café though.

Oh, and that's the 050C, to be precise (and the 044C). We don't want any mud sticking on the innocent... :wink: Dunno whether anyone's actually ever seen a Ward & Payne Aristocrat chisel in the flesh, but they were cursed by the Design Centre too.


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## bugbear (2 Nov 2010)

I was talking to a bloke from Paramo at a show, and he said they still get enquiries about the planemaster.

Presumably from people who don't know about car boots, eBay and auctions.

I sometimes see boxes with 5-7 planemasters at my local auction - I think someone's got a warehouse full!

BugBear


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## jimi43 (2 Nov 2010)

They are good for removing paint!

 


Jim


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## Richard T (4 Nov 2010)

I fear Jim, not even that.

Got the casting roughly cleaned up ...






And got me a proper No. 10 iron from Mathew at Workshop Heaven ...






... which will have to be slightly taken down along its length as well as its width to fit this spiteful artical but this is no prob as it isn't hard back along there.

And Mathew also very generously sent me a STR QS frog. 






Which we both thought might be persuaded into place somehow, but I find that even with all the other adjustments I'd have to make to wangle it, I would have to take too much off either side ... I think this plane might still be a little evil ...






..but nevertheless, thankyou very much for doing this Mathew - it will come in for something else eventually; thanks also for the V. speedy post.

Now to make up a cap iron and lever cap. Can't remember if the real No. 10s have them flared out at the end too - will check. 
I've had some practice at forging lever caps already and it's working out ok so far ...





This was from a round bar :roll: Next time I will get some stock more of the right shape to start with.


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## AndyT (4 Nov 2010)

RICHARD!!!

I hope you're not going to spoil a valuable collectable!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/Stanley-England-RB10-Rabbet-Plane-12-100-Rebate-MINT-/350389881183


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## Richard T (4 Nov 2010)

I'm going to spoil it to death 


Just got the iron to fit. It needed some of the sides behind the mouth squaring out to let the back of the crossed T come back far enough. 
Now it's time to have a think about handles/infills.


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## Alf (4 Nov 2010)

AndyT":1ciwj9ch said:


> http://cgi.ebay.com/Stanley-England-RB10-Rabbet-Plane-12-100-Rebate-MINT-/350389881183





> This would probably translate best to a vintage Stanley 10 1/2 American made plane.


It would? The phrase "Lost In Translation" inevitably springs to mind...


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## Harbo (4 Nov 2010)

I bought a 050C back in the early 70's - it's still in pristine condition 'cause it's so c**p I could never get on with it - the blades do fit other (better) Record versions thank goodness!

It must have got the Design Award for its "futuristic shaped" plastic handle?


Rod


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## jimi43 (4 Nov 2010)

Richard...you are either amazingly optimistic or completely bonkers...(in the nicest possible way!) :lol: 

I admire your tenacity...I would have found a bin for it a few pages back but then I wouldn't have the pleasure of watching you get it to rock and roll...and I am sure you will...

This is FUN!

Jim


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## Vann (5 Nov 2010)

That QS frog looks the same width as your plane (i.e. 2 inches). Even the 2 1/8" wide No.10 had a No.3 width frog (i.e. 1 3/4inches wide). 

Ask Matthew if he'll swap that No.4 frog for a No.3 frog (I can't remember if QS make a No.3 :?: ).

Cheers, Vann.


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## Richard T (5 Nov 2010)

Jim, amazingly optimistic *and* completely bonkers. Let's get it right.

Vann, having looked at the possibilities, I've talked myself into it being easier to make an infill to fit rather than grinding out the existing gubbins to make room for a made - for - something - else frog. This will also give me a chance to practice making an adjuster before I make one for my dovetailed job. 
Might try grinding out the "RB10" though ... pretend it never happened ....


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## jimi43 (7 Nov 2010)

Hi Richard....

I saw an RB10 at the bootfair today in a box marked "50p per item"...it was an effort but I did resist!  

Don't want to get that sort of reputation after all! :wink: 8) 

It did make me smile though!

I did however pick up a nice little slater's hammer from the same box, the handle of which the previous owner had tried to repair with nails! There shall be a nice little ash handle on that by sundown!

:wink: 

Jim


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## Richard T (7 Nov 2010)

Oh no! More of 'em at every turn. Considering I'd never seen one before last week, there seems to be a worrying amount surfacing all of a sudden - maybe they swarmed in the summer.
That's what you call coincidences; I bought an axe too that day, a really nice, old scandinavian shape - with a chair leg for a handle. One of those off - centre turned feet with the steel cap still on the bottom. 
Strange thing was, from some angles it looked really good - but from others it looked like a chair leg. Anyway, now it looks like beech ash in my wood burner. 
Now bonfire night is out of the way it'll be good to get back to plane (and axe handle) fiddling.


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## jimi43 (7 Nov 2010)

I think there are hundreds of them out there...it's just that nobody admits to seeing them...(until now!)  :wink: 

Good luck on the axe....suggestion....hit the RB10 with the axe! ccasion5: 


Jim


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## GazPal (8 Nov 2010)

This is like new car syndrome. You never notice there are so many on the roads until you've bought one and then they're everywhere. :shock: :lol: 


Richard, 

Are you making a wooden pattern for the plane frog or roughing it out in steel before refining details?


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## Richard T (9 Nov 2010)

Hi Jim - don't know what happened there - you wrote that you bought a hammer, I read that you bought an axe. ... Maybe, as usual, I got distracted by your avatar. 

Gary - at the moment the plan is to make a wooden frog/handle combo as the thread in the hole for the tote bolt is still the same ghoulish rough thread as it ever was. This might have been ok for pushing a disposable razor blade but it will need to be much more solid to push a "plane." 
I thought about plating the surface of the frog with 4mm steel (because I've got some and it's not a size I have another plane making use for) but then I got all excited about practising making an adjuster. So a top plate would have to be split to accommodate it. At the moment I'm sort of decided that the blade sitting on wood will be fine as there is about 3/4" of casting for it to sit on at the mouth and I'll be doing a L.N with the cap iron and making it from 3mm. That, plus the Ray Iles iron should be purty sturdy.
Whether or not there will be enough room for my thick mitt in a handle hole underneath the back of that iron has yet to be seen. 

I hope I don't end up having to take the axe to it after all ...


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## Racers (9 Nov 2010)

Hi, Richard

Just make the infill fit the gap and epoxy and screw through the plane sides, if you do a small counter sink you can fill the heads of the screws of and they look like rivets. I did this with my infill scraper plane and they hold very well.






Pete


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## Richard T (9 Nov 2010)

Thanks Pete - that's a lovely looking job. 
Unfortunately I don't have the benefit of starting with a properly designed plane - you must remember that this is the horror from hell we're dealing with - so sorry to show this again but ... 







It has no sides to speak of at the back :evil: 
All in all it's a bit Carnation Milk to say the least.


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## GazPal (9 Nov 2010)

Richard T":214z6600 said:


> Gary - at the moment the plan is to make a wooden frog/handle combo as the thread in the hole for the tote bolt is still the same ghoulish rough thread as it ever was. This might have been ok for pushing a disposable razor blade but it will need to be much more solid to push a "plane."
> I thought about plating the surface of the frog with 4mm steel (because I've got some and it's not a size I have another plane making use for) but then I got all excited about practising making an adjuster. So a top plate would have to be split to accommodate it. At the moment I'm sort of decided that the blade sitting on wood will be fine as there is about 3/4" of casting for it to sit on at the mouth and I'll be doing a L.N with the cap iron and making it from 3mm. That, plus the Ray Iles iron should be purty sturdy.
> Whether or not there will be enough room for my thick mitt in a handle hole underneath the back of that iron has yet to be seen.
> 
> I hope I don't end up having to take the axe to it after all ...



:lol: I know what you mean about the threading for the rear handle. They're not the best fixing, although the handles tighten down nicely if you've a spare gorrilla kicking around to turn the screw. :lol: 

Would infilling behind the blade en mass with Mahogany and facing the with an inlet steel plate (For the adjuster channel) sound like a reasonable solution? The steel plate's leading edge could potentially slot in directly behind the cast platform at the mouth so both surfaces merge smoothly together. 

I'd been mulling this over, as well as forming a basic profiled rear coffin grip (It's top contour a little like the grip on a Record 043) in place of an open handle.

I definitely like the sound of heavier cap iron tied in with a Ray Iles iron. It'll add a nice amount of heft to the entire package.


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## Racers (9 Nov 2010)

Hi, Richard

Screw it up from the bottom :shock: 

Pete


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## GazPal (9 Nov 2010)

Racers":2m9qfxbv said:


> Hi, Richard
> 
> Screw it up from the bottom :shock:
> 
> Pete



Sounds all too painful :shock: , but very nice work on your scraper plane.


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## Richard T (9 Nov 2010)

"screw it up from the bottom" - a very apt sentiment and probably what I should have said when I first saw it. However it had crossed my mind in a practical way, as have a number of methods.
I really want an open handle; I guess it's too many years having only a block plane and I was thinking about having an overhang at the back a la Norris smoother, or even the steel sandwich knife scale type. It was an odd looking thing to start with, I might as well do it justice. 
Yes, generally infilling en mas with wood is the idea though it will be Elm or Ash in current circumstances. And until I've designed the adjuster I won't know what to shape to let in. So adjuster first I recon. 
I'll mull it over as I wrestle with trying to get that threaded bolt out ...


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## GazPal (9 Nov 2010)

Richard T":14o5gjbh said:


> I really want an open handle; I guess it's too many years having only a block plane and I was thinking about having an overhang at the back a la Norris smoother, or even the steel sandwich knife scale type. It was an odd looking thing to start with, I might as well do it justice.
> Yes, generally infilling en mas with wood is the idea though it will be Elm or Ash in current circumstances. And until I've designed the adjuster I won't know what to shape to let in. So adjuster first I recon.
> I'll mull it over as I wrestle with trying to get that threaded bolt out ...



It's all sounding good. :wink: I think casting the handle further back could enhance overall feel, as well as keep your hand clear of planed surfaces during use.

I'd be sorely tempted to pick up the iron and craft around it and the adjuster, as both will govern infill dimensions and adjuster positioning. A Norris type adjuster would be on my crafting/shopping list.


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## AndyT (9 Nov 2010)

Richard T":1ve88q69 said:


> I'll mull it over as I wrestle with trying to get that threaded bolt out ...



obvious thought - if it's hard to undo, why not leave it there? Drill a corresponding hole in your infill wood, and pack it with some extra epoxy. The angle looks ok for the whole block to slide down into place.


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## Alf (9 Nov 2010)

No reason not to, um, "screw it up from the bottom". Countersink so you're just shy of the bottom of the slot in the screws and file/abrade flush and the job's a good'un. Of course after three tries I still have yet to reach that nirvana with plating the mouth of a spokeshave, but in _theory_... :wink: Let's face it, you can't really make it any worse.


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## Richard T (10 Nov 2010)

The threaded rod came out easy. I filed flats on either side, tried it the wrong way, suspecting it was a left hand thread - it was. Very sinister. 
I think I'm leaning toward the knife scale handle idea. Not that I would naturally put one on a plane but this isn't a natural plane... No, I think it would suite it. Also can be strong enough whilst thin enough to keep knuckles out of the way when rebating. 
So I'll be riveting rather than screwing (as the boilermaker said to the actress.) The only thing that worries me about this is getting it too tight and cracking the sole ... Still, haven't made the steel bit yet so I'll worry about that when I come to it. 
Should get into the forge today - less of a howling gale ..


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## Racers (10 Nov 2010)

Hi, Richard

Riveting thin through cast iron :shock: 

Use some thing soft like annealed brass rod, and take it slowly with a small hammer.

Pete


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## Richard T (30 Nov 2010)

Yup to that Pete, and yup, yup and yup. Still quite a way off with the SciFi tote though so plenty of time to worry. 
Meanwhile, as I have been making all sorts of things from plate for a certain other plane, I made a cap iron for this one. 











In situ. Mmmmm...... Shiny ....

It's 3mm plate ground away underneath but should still have enough meat for the female thread without having to braise an extra lump on.


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## jimi43 (1 Dec 2010)

Best example of guilding a lily I have ever seen there Richard!

Superb cap iron...gorgeous Iles iron...what on EARTH is that you have it resting in!  

Only kidding mate...

I feel that this is now going to be the swan from the ugly duckling!

Amazing stuff mate...now stop faffing around with that one and get on with the coffin!!!

    8) 

Jim


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