# External boiler - oil central heating - how much?



## Rob_H (19 Sep 2008)

Our boiler for our oil-fired central heating system is playing up - it's probably about 10-15 years old. I'd rather not shell out - just paid for a new bathroom, oil tank, sewage treatment system. Any ideas what a new external boiler for oil ch should cost? I just spoke to one company who quoted £3,500. About four years ago I paid about £1,000 in another cottage, so this seems a steep price rise and a half.


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## Gary M (20 Sep 2008)

Hi Rob, 
Depending on size, i wouldn't like to be paying more than £500 for a normal external 50/70 or 70/90 oil boiler plus the fitting charge. 
Although i'm sure you could find a local plumber to do that for you at a reasonable cost (a days work at most)
HTH 
Gary.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2008)

Rob..you don't say whether it is a standard boiler or a combi (but thinking it through given the age, it's not a combi). Is the existing boiler outside? If not then factor in the cost of extending the pipework. £3500 seems very steep to me. 

Other factors to consider as to type of boiler is whether you have plastic CH pipework (doubt it, somehow) as there's limitations as to boiler manufacturer as some don't have the necessary protective measures to prevent overheating of the water and resultant failure of the plastic CH pipes.


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## Rob_H (20 Sep 2008)

The boiler is outside, standard not combi and the ch piping is not plastic. Apparently all boilers have to be condensing boilers now whatever that means.


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## Rich (20 Sep 2008)

Rob what exactly is the problem? oil fired boilers are not difficult to repair, if you could describe the symptoms I may well be able to help.

Regards,

Rich.

PM me if you'd rather.


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## Rob_H (20 Sep 2008)

it keeps locking out - every week or so, and it has to be reset. Sometimes it starts straight away, sometimes it won't start at all. Repairs/service are getting expensive.


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## Rich (20 Sep 2008)

What's the make and model Rob?

Rich.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2008)

Old or tired and dried out asbestos 'cord' around either the burner assembly or the access panel to the heat exchanger?

Dirty photocell?

Had both of these on our boiler which exhibited the same symptoms.


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## Rich (20 Sep 2008)

Rob the criteria here is the make and model of the burner, for instance, is it a RIELLO, or a NUWAY, or any other make, I have a feeling the solution is going to be quick and very cheap.  

Rich.


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## busy builder (21 Sep 2008)

We have a Camray boiler hung on the wall outside which is about 18 years old. Never had a problem with it, but we are going to change it next year.
The only viable alternatives are Worcester/Bosch condensing combi boilers, if you look around these are around £1400 -£2000 depending on size. if your boiler is like ours and not combi or condenser, you will see a reduction in oil consumption by 30%. As the current price of oil is about 50ppl there is quite a saving to be made over the lifetime.

We also have a Dunsley Highlander 5 multifuel, with all the wood I get at work and the couple of million square miles of woodland up here in the Highlands we use it all the time (except high Summer) its lovely and toasty  SWMBO keeps the kettle on it too :lol:


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## RogerS (21 Sep 2008)

busy builder":26wor2jl said:


> .......you will see a reduction in oil consumption by 30%. .....:



Are you sure? We have a Worcester oil boiler about 15 years old. I went down the route of looking into fuel efficiency. I even contacted our oil supplier to get a printout as to how much oil we'd consumed over this period so that I had some hard facts. Figures taken off the web for an oil fired burner were around the 55% efficiency mark and so when I did the sums I got quite excited with the potential savings. The payback period looked really good.

Then I had my oil maintenance man actually tell me what my efficiency actually was. Nearer 80% and so suddenly the payback period got r..e..a..l..l..y long. Mind you, given the price of oil now, it bears looking at again.


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## busy builder (21 Sep 2008)

May beyour boiler is m0re efficient than mine, but a combi will save you money straight away as you are only heating what you need. On top of that are the benefis of the condensing system.


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## Digit (21 Sep 2008)

I have a combi condensing boiler fuelled with LPG and I have no complaints, but BEWARE hard water areas. No problem with the C/H, but if your kettle furs rapidly so will the Hot Water heating circuit within the boiler.

Roy.


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## CHJ (21 Sep 2008)

busy builder":37nccy2g said:


> May beyour boiler is m0re efficient than mine, but a combi will save you money straight away as you are only heating what you need. On top of that are the benefis of the condensing system.



My knowledge of Boiler technology and CH systems is at least 30 years out of date but can you even get any benefit from fitting a condensing boiler to an existing old style system, surely the water temp management / bypass controls will not be in place to match the boiler.

It's for sure fitting a combi boiler would entail a whole new rework of the hot water/CH system and loose any airing cupboard/drying room facility an older property is likely to currently use.

The old boiler casing fitted in my property is not the most efficient by modern standards and has had new pump/burner fitted by me over the years but every time I sit down and try to work out the efficiency advantages versus the installation cost of a new (oil) boiler I come out with a 10+ year claw-back. Of course I may just be wrong in my understanding of modern technology.


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## RogerS (21 Sep 2008)

CHJ":3nipibow said:


> busy builder":3nipibow said:
> 
> 
> > May beyour boiler is m0re efficient than mine, but a combi will save you money straight away as you are only heating what you need. On top of that are the benefis of the condensing system.
> ...



No, Chas, I reckon you're spot on.


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## busy builder (21 Sep 2008)

You say your boiler is 80% efficient ? is that 80% of _your boilers _efficiency ?
Run your boiler for another 10 years by all means but what will a new boiler cost you then ?

If you look at it this way, you have a 2 ltr petrol enging running at 80% efficiency and a VW PDi TD running at 80% which is the more economical ?

Its all a matter of how you look at life, do you replace your car often or are you running an 18 year old one ? if not why not ? I have a VW TDI which is 7 years old and will keep till its dropping to bits, but SWMBO would be on my back if the boiler was un reliable.

decisions decision


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## Digit (21 Sep 2008)

In the situation where you have an existing heating system complete with hot water cylinder and roof tank as I understand today's practice you would install a 'system' boiler which would enable you to retain both features.
The main contribution of a condensing boiler shows up when you look at the flue pipe. On a condensing boiler much more heat is extracted from the fuel, so much so that the flue pipe will probably be constructed of plastic rather than steel. The main advantage of combi boilers is their compactness, they are a complete package and thereby cut installation time.
Any system that is 30 years old would probably benefit from an improvement in controls whether the boiler is replaced or not.

Roy.


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## RogerS (21 Sep 2008)

Digit":plazwun7 said:


> ......
> Any system that is 30 years old would probably benefit from an improvement in controls whether the boiler is replaced or not.
> 
> Roy.



Not mine (goes into smug mode)  It's already the DB's.

The one change I would make if I could is to put in more insulation - everywhere. Having put in oodles of Kingspan into the renovation project, it's staggering to feel the improvement.


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## Rich (21 Sep 2008)

I still swear by(not at) the old Potterton BOA floor mounted atmospheric central heating boiler, easy to service and very efficient, and that's 30 years down the line, fast forward to today, the alternatives are wall mounted combis, okay if you are in rented property, but if you own the house you have to remember that the H/W heat exchanger is nothing more than a kettle, and we all know what happens to the inside of those(depending where you live, of course) introducing fresh cold water into a system and boiling it will produce limescale despite having a combimate softener in line, I know, I tried it, a complete waste of time if you live in Berkshire.
As for low water content condensing boilers, yes, they are efficient and fit very nicely into modern kitchens, that's where it ends, low content means a small heat exchanger, this will scale up eventually,(AS WILL ANY BOILER)
Boilers are not something that you replace on a regular basis, one gets the impression the the agenda is driven by the manufacturers jumping on the efficiency bandwagon in order to make a profit, that;s understandable as that's what drives industry and puts money in the directors pocket and keeps shareholders happy.
In short, Potterton boilers are still going strong today, it's a shame they don't produce them any more but you can understand why because it would take the manufacturer to long to get payback, which is why they only make things that will last for about 10 years at best.

Regards,

Rich.


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## Rob_H (22 Sep 2008)

Rich, it says it's a Thermocon boiler - no model or any other name. It's totally stopped now.


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## Rich (22 Sep 2008)

Good evening Rob, can you determine the make of the the burner/ if not a photo would help, there are only a few things to go wrong with an oil fired unit and are quite easy to remedy,  , for instance it could be carbon build up between the ignition electrode ends, which makes them short out on start up, sometimes the carbon falls off of it's own accord and then builds up again, it could be muck in the nozzle especially if the tank got low, it could be condensation or the like on the photo cell, on startup, when you look through the tinted glass, you should see the "spark", do you have a "satronic" control box on the front where you press the "lockout" button?, if so, it's probably a TF802B, it's very easy to remove the front of the control box and with the power to the burner on, use a suitable sized cable to simulate startup of each component, 1st the fan starts, which is also turning the fuel pump, then ignition for about 5 seconds, next the solenoid on the pump opens, the fuel then ignites and the photo cell on seeing a "flame" lets the box know that all is well and the cycle is allowed to progress until the room temp/hot water temp is reached, if your boiler only runs for a short while you need to check the circulating pump it could well be seized after standing idle during the summer, remove the screw in the end of the pump and turn the motor by hand with a screw driver, with the screw still out and room stat calling observe the pump running or stick a small screwdriver in the end and listen for clicking sounds as the pump turns.
Also oil fired units should be serviced TWICE a year.

let me know how you get on, but don't let the service chaps rip you off.
hth,

Rich.


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