# New Workshop Doors



## brianhabby (9 Feb 2009)

Hi All,

The doors on my workshop are looking particularly tired and need replacing and as I've never made anything like this before I'm sure I'll have quite a few questions as I go along.

This is what they look like now:







From the inside you can see the big gap at the top where they have sagged






I have some cladding that I bought ages ago just for this task but I've put it off long enough and really need to get the job done as they're falling apart and give me very little security.

I assume I need to make a frame to start with with M&T joints and looking through some of the threads on here the M&Ts should be through joints with wedges. I would also like to have a small door within one of the larger doors for daily entry (I'm sure there must be a special name for such a door but I have no idea what it is). This smaller door will obviously complicate the construction.

Before I get to that however, I need to decide the best material to make the frames from.

Any suggestions?

regards

Brian


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## Racers (9 Feb 2009)

Hi,

Its a Judas gate, I think it would get complicated but not impossible to make one, but how about one large one small door say 1/4 and 3/4.


Pete


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## joiner_sim (9 Feb 2009)

Hi,

I would recommend HEMLOCK as an alternative to just using redwood. Adding the smaller door into the gate would be as hard as you think, however as your gates aren't really that big, It would probably be better to have one 1/4 gate and the other 3/4.

If you wanted to add the small door into the gate, you would just have to put rails top and bottom of the door, and mullions either side of the door, Just mortice and tennon.


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## brianhabby (9 Feb 2009)

Thanks for the replies,

The reason I wouldn't want to make the doors as 3/4 & 1/4 is because the 3/4 door would be too heavy. Total size of the opening is about 10 feet by about 7 feet 6 inches which is big for me.

Hemlock - I don't think I've seen that advertised anywhere locally. Any ideas of suppliers within striking distance of Colwyn Bay or alternative suggestions?

regards

Brian


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## MikeG. (9 Feb 2009)

Those doors don't look beyond redemption to me........have you thought about fixing them up? It would be a whole lot easier than starting from scratch (and a whole lot cheaper).

You could take them off, clean them up, put a sash cramp or a ratchet strap across the diagonal and pull them straight, then screw sheets of ply into the gap between the ledges on the inside. They will never sag again! A bit of decorating.......Job done in a day or two.......

.........just a thought!

Mike


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## joiner_sim (9 Feb 2009)

http://www.sykestimber.co.uk/timber/hemlock.html Their website says they are able to arrange delivery nationwide. We use Skyes Timber, but we aren't far from it, so you would have to give them a call.


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## jhwbigley (9 Feb 2009)

Mike Garnham":19a99wlo said:


> Those doors don't look beyond redemption to me........have you thought about fixing them up? It would be a whole lot easier than starting from scratch (and a whole lot cheaper).
> 
> You could take them off, clean them up, put a sash cramp or a ratchet strap across the diagonal and pull them straight, then screw sheets of ply into the gap between the ledges on the inside. They will never sag again! A bit of decorating.......Job done in a day or two.......
> 
> ...



:lol: just what i would do. 

i have got two sets of garage doors to make like these for my new workshop (its all thats stoping me from getting it weather tight) i will be watching intently :-k 

John


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## brianhabby (9 Feb 2009)

Mike Garnham":3p9pefhw said:


> Those doors don't look beyond redemption to me........have you thought about fixing them up? It would be a whole lot easier than starting from scratch (and a whole lot cheaper).
> 
> You could take them off, clean them up, put a sash cramp or a ratchet strap across the diagonal and pull them straight, then screw sheets of ply into the gap between the ledges on the inside. They will never sag again! A bit of decorating.......Job done in a day or two.......
> 
> ...



They really are bad Mike.

The two doors are split into two each so they originally folded but haven't done so for many years. They are held together inside with bits of steel strapping and are rotten at the bottom. I may be able to use some of the timber in the making of the new doors, but new doors it has to be.

Anyway, I might even enjoy the project  

Simon,

Thanks for the link to Sykes Timber. Looking on their site they mention Hemlock as being non-durable, so I am a little puzzled that you recommend it for these doors. I would have thought a hardwood would have been suggested. Just my thoughts.

regards

Brian


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## joiner_sim (9 Feb 2009)

I thought cost was an issue here. I would have recommended a hard wood, over hemlock if I had of realised cost was not an issue. I just recommend Hemlock over the use of ordinary redwood.

Theres lot's of hardwoods that can be used. Sapele, oak, meranti, mahogany, to name a few. The hardwood index may be of some use to you in choosing if you want to use hardwood.
http://www.sykestimber.co.uk/hardwood.html


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## brianhabby (10 Feb 2009)

Hi Simon,

Sorry about the confusion there, I just thought a hardwood would do a better job but not sure which one. I wouldn't say cost was not an issue at all but I just want to do the best job I can within reason.

I'll have a look now and see what's available.

regards

Brian


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## OLD (10 Feb 2009)

Like mike and others i would repair them you can get 6mm exterior ply in 10x5 sheets i would remove hardware ,straighten ,replace bottom, rail cut back t&g and replace with ply fix the door pairs together then cover the repaired doors with the ply so it faces outwards replacing hardware as required paint up etc.


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## brianhabby (21 Feb 2009)

Well, I've been thinking about this job for the past couple of weeks and while I appreciate that some people might choose to repair the doors, I have decided to make new ones.

I am thinking of using chestnut wood, according to the Sykes site it is quite durable but not too expensive. Mind you if I buy it from Sykes it will be, they quoted me about £350.00 for the wood and probably about £150.00 for delivery, so I'm going to see what I can get locally.

I still plan to put the judas gate in one of the doors and I've drawn this plan to give some idea of what I'm aiming at.






If the image is a bit small on your screen there ia a higher-res one here

I'll let you know how I get on

regards

Brian


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## PowerTool (21 Feb 2009)

Sweet chestnut sounds like a good choice - often used as a substitute for oak,and was at one time the preferred timber for roof shingles.
Will look forward to the pictures  

Andrew


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## joiner_sim (21 Feb 2009)

I don't know about Chestnut, never used it.

The design you have planned out looks good. Just be sure to brace the Judas Gate as well.

I suggest you use 18mm T&G bords, instead of thinner ones.


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## OPJ (22 Feb 2009)

I like the look of your design and those braces - I knew there was something missing on those old doors!!  :wink: 

Chestnut is a good choice and will certainly be durable enough to withstand the elements. I haven't come across much of it locally so I'm not sure how it compares, cost-wise, to something like oak?


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## brianhabby (22 Feb 2009)

Okay, bought this today:






I got it from Dave Hoyle in Llangernyw, I know some people on this forum have used him in the past and he is local to me.

Dave is really helpful - where else can you go and buy hardwood on a Sunday  He helped to make sure I got some decent pieces (virtually no knots) and even loaded it on my roof rack for me:
















The wood cost me more than I was anticipating but I had to buy more wood because of the lengths. I made a start cutting the wood this afternoon but stopped as I want to make sure I cut with minimal waste - any secrets? I'll have some nice offcuts of chestnut when I've finished :lol: 

The wood is nice & easy to cut and I can see why it is sometimes substituted for oak, if it's as durable as suggested then I'll be happy.

Probably won't get to do much more now until next weekend.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (22 Feb 2009)

joiner_sim":1527hxo3 said:


> The design you have planned out looks good. Just be sure to brace the Judas Gate as well.
> 
> I suggest you use 18mm T&G bords, instead of thinner ones.



I do plan to brace the Judas Gate, I just didn't show it on the drawing. To be honest I got fed up at the end and just drew some lines where the Judas Gate should be. (I drew it in Photoshop cause I can't get my head around Sketchup).

I have some T&G timber that I've had for a while just for this job and I checked today and it is 18mm. 



OPJ":1527hxo3 said:


> I like the look of your design and those braces - I knew there was something missing on those old doors!!  :wink:
> 
> Chestnut is a good choice and will certainly be durable enough to withstand the elements. I haven't come across much of it locally so I'm not sure how it compares, cost-wise, to something like oak?



I think the lack of braces is probably why the old doors have dropped like they have. I may also line the fields with some ply that I've got for added strength as well as the braces - what do you think?


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## Mr Ed (22 Feb 2009)

Good start Brian

I bet getting the boards off at the other end (where presumably you didn't have a forklift) was a bit of a game!

Cheers, Ed


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## joiner_sim (22 Feb 2009)

Good luck with the gates, I'm quite suprised how well that volvo stood up to all that weight on its roof! :lol:


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## Tom K (23 Feb 2009)

No problem with the weight I just thought the forks would scratch the roof :shock: 
Obviously had passengers or he would have chucked it in the back :lol:


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## OPJ (23 Feb 2009)

That's a nice haul of chestnut you've got there. Adding braces alone will make a significant difference. There's no harm in also fixing a sheet of ply to the back, though I'm not sure you'll need it unless the joints fail (!!!) or the doors are really heavy. :wink: 

I used to make large doors (well, garden gates really, but the construction was similar) from 3" thick timber and we never had any complaints about the doors sagging or anything like that. We used to biscuit joint them in to the rails and add a screw to reinforce it! :shock: Well, that was for "production" work where time is everything and it was a lot quicker than having to cut and notch them in to the rails.

I used to drive a forklift just like that Cat as well. It was the best one we had, even though it was black from age and neglect, would break down frequently and churned out thick, black smoke. The fuel gauge didn't work either but, it would lift a heck of a lot more than the modern forklifts that did work (...well, not all the time!).


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## brianhabby (23 Feb 2009)

Thanks for the comments.

Ed,
No I didn't have a forklift at the other end, just my grandson. He's only 12 and found them a bit heavy, in fact he had 'em all off loaded before I'd finished me cuppa :lol: 

Simon,
That Volvo has taken a few loads that I wouln't get in anything else, I can tell you. Cost me 450 notes about 5 years ago and has yet to let me down, built like the proverbial brick whatsit...!

Tom,
There was just enough room to get the forks out & Dave was very careful not to scratch my carefully polished pride 'n joy  Only one passenger _(in the front seat)_ but the back of the car is a mobile shed _(wheelyshed)_.

Olly,
I think these doors will be quite heavy by the time they're finished but I hope my joints don't fail, I plan to put wedges in the M&T joints and may dowel them as well. I never actually thought about the ply helping the joints but I suppose it will. I'm planning to put a rebate in the frame to accept the ply and then the cladding, should be strong enough I think.

That Cat in the photo is as old as the hills but it doesn't half lift some wood. This guy's got tons of the stuff and he has to move it about with that machine to get at the stuff at the back or that's buried.

regards

Brian


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## OPJ (24 Feb 2009)

If you're going rebate the inside edge of the frame, Brian, don't forget that your middle rails will need to be thinner by the thickness of the ply...! :shock: :wink: 

This will probably also mean that you'll need to use bare-faced tenons (one shoulder) on the mid rails.


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## brianhabby (24 Feb 2009)

Thanks for that Olly, I've not got that far yet of course I reckon it'll be a couple of weeks before I'm cutting the joints but I guess it's good to start to think about it now.

What I had in mind was cutting a rebate around each aperture that is deep enough for both the ply and the T&G. After filling the void with the ply I would then put the T&G on top of the ply.

I've tried to illustrate what I have in mind with this:







BTW this is my very first drawing with Sketchup

Olly, does my idea make sense. Obviously I want to get this right.

regards

Brian


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## OPJ (25 Feb 2009)

How thick is the timber you've bought, 2"?

If you were to cut a rebate that was deep enough for both the ply and T&G (18 + 18 = 36mm); 45 - 36mm = only 9mm on the other side side of the door, which isn't gonna be very strong at all... :? 

Sorry, what I thought you had in mind was to only rebate the T&G boards in to the front face of the doors. My other thought was that you were intending to screw some ply directly on to the _back_ face of the doors (not rebated), and you could insulate between the boards and ply...?

I really don't think you'll need the ply with those braces and your choice of timber. It would only really be necessary to keep the insulation in place on the inside; even then, you could get away with using hardboard and keep the weight down.


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## brianhabby (25 Feb 2009)

Interesting comments Olly, I honestly never thought about doing it the way you suggested - but I may now  

I have some ply that is about 9-10mm so with the 18mm for the T&G that shouldn't be too deep I don't think. Do you really think I don't need the plywood in the rebate because your idea of insulation is really beginning to appeal to me?

I suppose if the ply was fastened securely to the inside of the frame it's still going to give some support anyway.

regards

Brian


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## dexter (28 Feb 2009)

Hi Brian,
Looking at your original photo`s, those door`s would not have sagged if they had been braced. That being the case I would suggest that you construct the new door`s to the same design as the original`s with bare faced tenon's on the middle and bottom rails. The T&G boards then fit into a rebate in the top rail and stile`s and run through to the bottom of the door. This will allow any water to run straight off the door as opposed to the eventuality of it soaking into the rebate and joints of the bottom rail if you make that the same thickness as the top rail and stile`s. 
If made this way and braced as you have shown on the sketchup design I don`t really see any need for the plywood. 
How old are the door`s that are on at the moment? If you build them to a slightly better design,(braces) and maintain them well, then you should get their age and a good few more years out of them.
Good luck whatever you decide to do. 
Dex


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## OPJ (28 Feb 2009)

Sorry Brian, I'm not sure how I missed your reply...  

But, it seems dexter's covered pretty much everything I would've said!  You don't really need the ply so, don't bother trying to cut rebates for it - this'll give you the optimum room for insulation; 1" slabs to fill a 27mm gap.

You don't need anything heaver than 3mm hardboard to hold it in place, which can simply be screwed straight on to the backs of the doors. If you're using Kingspan or similar, you cut it for a tight fit anyway, so it should hold on it's own. :wink: 

One other thing you may like to consider is raising your bottom rail up off the ends of the stiles. This will allow you to get a 'twin tenon' joint instead of just a haunched M&T, which would help reduce any twisting of such a large rail and you could dowel it in two places. 1" would be enough or, to play it safe, you could make it 2" in case you like really tight joints and are worried about splitting the sitles...!! :wink: It also means you less likely to damage the bottom rail this way - if something does happen, it's much easier (and usually cheaper) to replace the T&G boards.


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## brianhabby (28 Feb 2009)

Dex & Olly,

Thanks for your interesting and very useful comments, you have both given me much to think about. I obviously need to re-think my plans somewhat before I go any further.

Back to Sketchup me thinks  

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (12 Dec 2010)

Well it's been a while, I thought it time I resurrected this thread.

This has been one of those jobs that I just haven't been able to get on with for one reason or another, Usually other things taking precedence. So I've recently told all my friends and family that nothing gets done until my doors are finished - doesn't stop 'em asking though  

I probably haven't taken anywhere near as many photos as I should have done, but here is what I have done.

Some time ago I cut all the wood to size and planed it up and finished up with this:











Handling those large pieces on the jointer was tricky so I fixed up a featherboard to hold the stock firmly against the fence:






I've recently been cutting the joints for the M&T doors. They will be wedged with a dowel for good measure.

The mortices were first drilled out on the drill press and then finished by hand






For the tenons I used a tenon jig design courtesy of Mr Maskery, here's my version:






For anyone thinking about cutting large tenons, I can highly recommend Steve's jig. As long as you take the time to make sure the jig is square, you will get perfect tenons every time. Things like haunches etc just need finishing of by hand.

After cutting all the mortice & tenon joints and some time fine tuning them I was ready for the first dry fit, which I did today.






The diagonal clamp is because it was out of square by about 1/16th of an inch, which I didn't think was too bad at all for such a large project. While it was clamped up dry it was time to cut the braces. Cutting them at this stage was necessary in order to get a nice tight fit. I will fasten them in place with biscuits. 

In this next photo, the braces have been cut and are just held in place with no support.






I'll try to keep the thread up to date until I'm finished.

regards

Brian


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## OPJ (12 Dec 2010)

Great to see this one resurrected, Brian! ;-)

Really like the tenon jig. Looks like you've even managed to _improve_ Steve's jig by fitting a larger 18mm MDF base to the router (...well, I don't recall seeing that on Steve's original design).

Hopefully, you'll now be able to get the doors assembled and hung in time for Christmas.


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## brianhabby (12 Dec 2010)

I think Christmas is a bit optimistic, still got a fair bit to do and only one day left (unfortunately I have to go earn a crust during the week  )

The last picture just shows one of the doors (the simplest one of the two) dry fitted. I have to now dismantle it and cut the rebates for the cladding and plywood.

The other door will have the judas gate within it so is a bit more complex. I haven't started on the judas gate yet.

I'm pretty sure Steve had a similar base on his router, at least on the DVD version I've got.

regards

Brian


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## Qwibble (16 Dec 2010)

I plan to replace my up 'n over garage door when time permits, and am watching your project with interest. Looks good so far : ) 

Keep posting the pics

Q


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## joiner_sim (18 Dec 2010)

Getting there finally! I like that tennon jig you've got there, something I'll definatley keep in my for myself when the time comes for the need of one.


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## brianhabby (19 Dec 2010)

Well a bit more progress, got the other door together (dry).











I've managed to finish cutting the rebates today, just need to fine tune the corners when the doors are assembled.

Next job is cutting dowels & wedges and then (I think) final assembly. Not sure which glue to use as it takes a while to put together and I don't want the glue drying on me before it's clamped up.

regards

Brian


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## joiner_sim (20 Dec 2010)

Whenever I've made gates in the past, I've used Everbuild's Resintite, basically cascamite http://www.everbuild.co.uk/products/9,Adhesives/11,Wood Adhesives/1

If using it in the winter it can last for ages before going off, if using in the summer you need a very thin watery mix to stand a chance of it not going off too quick. The heat will make it go off quicker, but I have always found if I mixed up enough to do just one door/ gate it would not go off during the assembly, unless it's been really hot and the doors been a really complicated raised & fielded panelled one, then I have had problems..... but only when its been extremely hot!


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## brianhabby (2 Jan 2011)

Well, I've got the doors assembled and glued up. I decided on the Titebond II Extend glue in the end, it stayed open long enough to put things together.

I made the judas gate today but had a couple of hicups, really through my own stupidity  

The first problem I encountered was the wood for the stiles being a couple of inches too short. I have no idea how I managed to end up with short pieces as I normally allow plenty of extra length. It meant that I had to change from having the tenons in the rails and mortices in the stiles to the other way round. I also had to make stub tenons so I could regain the extra couple of inches.

It means the end grain of the rails will be visible at the top and bottom but I can live with this, I don't think there will be any strength issues (unless anyone knows differently). Too late now anyway.

If it had been a door in a house I would probably have had to re-mill some fresh timber and do the job correctly.

The other really stupid thing I did was put the brace for the judas gate on the wrong corners. It should go from the bottom of the hinge side to the top of the lock side but I got it wrong way round and only realised about half an hour after I'd glued it up. I'll now have to add another brace going the correct way and half lap it over the first one.

Good job I'm doing this for myself.

regards

Brian


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## tisdai (2 Jan 2011)

Been following this with intrest, your doing a good job thier Brian. By the way you are not the 1st and you surely won't be the last 1 to make a mistake,,  

Cheers

Dave


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## Steve Maskery (2 Jan 2011)

Nice job, Brian, I look forward to seeing the end result.
And thanks for the plug, much appreciated.
Cheers
Steve


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## joiner_sim (3 Jan 2011)

Ooops! The brace mistake is definatley not a first! When I have got the braces the wrong way around, I have just smacked it out repaired any damage and put a new brace in the right way around! Luckily that job was being painted.


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## brianhabby (3 Jan 2011)

Judas gate with the extra brace going the right way







Simon,

I'm not too concerned that I got the brace wrong, just meant that I had to spend time fixing it  

This project will be painted as well.

I think the reason the wood for the stiles was too short is that I must have placed the rail that acts as the lintel too high, so much for making a plan :? 

I've rebated the frame where the judas gate fits and now have to run a matching rebate on the judas gate itself so that it fits. When I ran the rebates in the frame I was going to square up the corners left by the router but have decided to leave them and round over the corners of the judas gate to match - should make an interesting detail which will only be seen from the inside.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (9 Jan 2011)

Time for an update me thinks.

The judas gate fitted to the large door (no ply or cladding yet.






I mentioned previously about the rounded corners on the judas gate and I've taken a couple of photos that might help to explain what I'm on about.

This photo shows the top of the judas gate as it will appear from the outside.






This next photo shows how it will appear from the inside.






And this photo is an attempt to show the detail.






I've started fitting the cladding and plywood, done the judas gate. I put some spacers between the pieces of cladding as I didn't want to butt the pieces up tight as the wood might swell when it gets outside. This stuff has been indoors for several years and is bone dry.






Each spacer is about 2mm thick, I hope that's enough :? 

One thing about the cladding that I bought. As you can probably surmise from the picture above, it is reclaimed timber. I didn't notice at the time but there are two different profiles :roll: 






The profiles will look the same when fitted but I can't really mix them. I just hope the lengths work out so I can avoid mixing them on the same section.

I had a bit of a hiccup when trimming some of the ply. This is the setup I used for trimming a piece to length.






And this is what I did to my table saw because I was too bl**dy close  






It's time I started thinking about what I'm going to use to hang these doors hinge wise. The heaviest of the two doors (the one with the judas gate) will weigh about 75 kilos when complete so I will need some pretty sturdy hinges.

That's all for now folks,

regards

Brian


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## Cegidfa (10 Jan 2011)

Hi Brian,
You are not alone! I used my Veritas steel router table, as it is easy to clamp to. I now have a 2mm deep cut all the way across it, having forgotten to measure the overhang :shock: 
It is certainly a testament to the quality of saw blade we both used. But why didn't we see the sparks? :wink: 

The doors are coming along nicely. Thanks for the WIP.

Regards...Dick.


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## brianhabby (10 Jan 2011)

This is the second time this particular table saw has been attacked by a portable circular saw. The last time was by the previous owner and he went through a corner of the cast iron top...!!!.

regards

Brian


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## Kev (12 Jan 2011)

Brian, 

Have been watching this thread with great interest, both out of general interest in how you have tackled this project but also from a point of view that I need to do the same to my workshop. This winter has made me realise how much heat I am losing through very I'll fitting doors, even with the wood burning stove going full blast. 

Has made me think of a few things that I would not have thought about.

Have you given thought to the type of hinges you will use in terms of type and size. Planning to make mine out Sapele (doors, not hinges :wink: ) so dread to think how heavy duty the hinges will have to be, the doors being 12' wide and 7'6" high. 

Keep up the good work.


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## brianhabby (13 Jan 2011)

Hi Kev,

You've made a very good point about the hinges. I put a question on the General Woodworking forum to ask what people thought regarding heavy duty hinges. My thoughts are to go with 'T' hinges although I did consider butt hinges for a short while.

I have decided to stay with 'T' hinges for a couple of reasons.

They will be easier to fit, especially if I get the lift off type. I suspect my doors will need some fine tuning when fitting to the frame and lift off hinges will make this task a lot easier.

I believe they will be easier to maintain should I have a problem. I can also bolt them on right through the door making them very sturdy.

I plan to use 3 hinges per door and if I get suitable ones they should hold these doors with no problem. The heaviest of my two doors will weigh about 75 kilos when complete.

ginsters kindly checked out a local supplier for me the other day and I plan to go and have a look on Saturday to see what they've got. I'll post details of what I finish up with.

The other thing about fitting the doors is that with them being lined on both sides, outside with cladding & inside with 3/8 plywood, I will hang the doors with the minimum of lining and then finnish them off. That way they will be lighter while hanging.

Those are my thoughts about hinges and hanging at the moment but of course there's still time to re-think things.

I hope those watching this thread with a view to doing something similar on their own workshop create a WIP post so we can compare notes.

regards

Brian


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## ginsters (14 Jan 2011)

If you require a lift I work mainly out out the west end so I'm always about if need a hand


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## brianhabby (14 Jan 2011)

Might just take you up on that offer mate, cheers.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (16 Jan 2011)

I got these yesterday:






They came from Richard Williams in Deganwy as recommended by ginsters, total cost about £48 for six. They're not the largest hinges they had in stock but at 18 inches I reckon they are more than adequate for the job in hand.

When fitting the cladding to the left hand door, and carefully measuring (or so I thought) I found I had a small gap of about half an inch at the end, thus:






So i glued in a thin fillet, when sanded and painted you'll never tell, good job I've got a couple of clamps  






Well, I'm slowly getting there, all that's really left now is to fit the locks to the judas gate and I think I will be ready to hang these doors. Will let you know how I get on.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (17 Apr 2011)

Well I've finally got the doors hung. 

If truth were known I was apprehensive to say the least. Making the doors in the privacy of the workshop was one thing, but what would I do if I'd screwed up and they wouldn't fit after removing the old ones? There would be no going back! 

Nothing for it but to just dive in which is what I did yesterday (Well me and my grandson, Dale). 

Turns out not to be too bad at all and I'm really pleased with the outcome. It's a wonder the old doors stayed put for as long as they did. They were each held on with two hinges. The top one on the right only had two screws into the frame, and the frame was rotten at the bottom on both sides so the bottom hinges weren't really gripping into much if anything. 

This is the rot at the bottom of the left hand door frame: 






I dug out as much as I could with an old chisel and gave it a good soaking with creosote before using a two part car body filler on it. I was to put a new upright on top of it anyway. Did this on both sides and this is the finished result: 





With a smug looking Brian in his Judas gate  

Dale took great delight in smashing up the old doors which are going for firewood: 






It's been a marathon journey but we got there in the end. I've just got a bit of finishing & painting to do but I'm genuinely pleased and proud with the way the job turned out. No creaking or scrapping - just nice smooth working doors  

Would I do the same again? Probably, although I've had my doubts during this project, it's very satisfying now the job is complete and it's all come together so well at the end. 

Well that's all for now folks. 

regards 

Brian


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## Qwibble (18 Apr 2011)

Good WIP Brian. When I tackle my workshop doors I'll hope I do as good a job.
Q


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## ginsters (18 Apr 2011)

looking good brian


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## Benchwayze (19 Apr 2011)

Nice Job Brian. Those hooks and bands are really the only choice to hinge double-wooden doors. Should last quite a while now.

:Thumbsup

Regards
John


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## brianhabby (19 Apr 2011)

I appreciate the comments guys, hope to get the painting finished this week 

regards 

Brian


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## Tierney (24 Aug 2011)

Hi,

Just spotted your link to this on another thread; lovely job, I need to do something similar at some point. One question, please can you tell me how you attached the hook or frame side of the hinge, they look like holes for normal wood screws?

Regards,

David


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## brianhabby (25 Aug 2011)

You're right, they are just countersunk holes for normal wood screws. When the photo was taken I had fitted them using some 3" No. 12 screws but am in the process of replacing them with coach bolts so they will be much stronger and impossible to open from the outside. It means that each hinge pin has to be removed and the holes squared off with a small file - quite a time consuming task which I must admit to not really enjoying, although it is a must.

I also plan to do the same with the strap part of the hinge as there is currently only one coach bolt in each, the rest being regular screws.

regards

Brian


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## Benchwayze (25 Aug 2011)

Brian, 


Why not buy the appropriate thickness all-thread 'set-screws', with hex-heads. Grind the heads down to circles first. Easier than squaring off round holes. Then when you put the nuts on the bolts inside, use lock washers, and burr over the ends of the threads, to prevent them being unscrewed. 
You could also file away the square section under the heads of coach bolts if that seems easier. 

Simplest solution would be to slightly enlarge the holes, so the square section of the coach-bolt will just go through. By the time you tighten up the bolts, they will bite into the timber and should hold. 


Just a suggestion. 

HTH
John


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## No skills (25 Aug 2011)

Johns last suggestion is pretty good, just needs a little tweek. Rather than drill out the hole in the hinge to the correct size (so that the square fits in easily) use a bit 0.5mm or 1mm smaller. Use a small club or large ball pein hammer (32oz does me) and whack the bolt on the head hard, this should drive the bolt head flush and the square piece will bite into the hole. This gives a very positive fitting with no slip/spin on bolting up.

I've fitted several thousand coach bolts this way, bolting bits of timber onto 3mm (and in some places 5mm) steel panels - after the first few hundred I was knocking the bolts into the 5mm panels first strike (hammer) 

hth


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## Tierney (25 Aug 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

David


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## Benchwayze (25 Aug 2011)

No skills":22d9e3mn said:


> Johns last suggestion is pretty good, just needs a little tweek. Rather than drill out the hole in the hinge to the correct size (so that the square fits in easily) use a bit 0.5mm or 1mm smaller. Use a small club or large ball pein hammer (32oz does me) and whack the bolt on the head hard, this should drive the bolt head flush and the square piece will bite into the hole. This gives a very positive fitting with no slip/spin on bolting up.
> 
> I've fitted several thousand coach bolts this way, bolting bits of timber onto 3mm (and in some places 5mm) steel panels - after the first few hundred I was knocking the bolts into the 5mm panels first strike (hammer)
> 
> hth



Yep.... Agree. That should work! Hammers are vastly under-rated!  

John


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