# Anvil Prices - What's Happened?



## Jelly (29 Jan 2021)

Was chatting idly to a friend of mine who is looking at making his own perfect pattern screwdrivers, and he mentioned how much the prices of anvils on the ised market had gone up, whilst we were discussing how easy (or not) it would be to hand forge the screwdriver blanks.

So I had a look on eBay... For anything under about 1.5CWt, it would be cheaper to buy a new cast steel anvil from Vaughan's in Birmingham, than to buy used, even though many examples are properly wallered out with multiple defects.

I presume that the resurgence of blacksmithing as a hobby, has driven some of it... but there's a lot of anvils going for serious money which are so tatty as to not even have much ornamental value!


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## HDC83 (29 Jan 2021)

It’s probably the tv show forged in fire


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## novocaine (29 Jan 2021)

FIF and the fact people keep banging on about how good old tools are vs new. it's a massive chunk of forged steel that you wail on with a massive chunk of steel thats hard, they get worn out. 

still, as I don't even have an anvil anymore I can't talk.


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## Jelly (29 Jan 2021)

I was blissfully unaware of the existence of FIF, and having now lost 10-15 minutes on YouTube since @HDC83's post, don't feel like I've missed out too much... 

It's cool and all, but it's no mastercrafts, and I don't get the fascination with swords, weapons and bladesmithing, there's so many more interesting (and difficult) things you can make by forging.




novocaine said:


> The fact people keep banging on about how good old tools are vs new. it's a massive chunk of forged steel that you wail on with a massive chunk of steel thats hard, they get worn out.



I suppose there's an argument that the old ductile iron, and ductile iron with steel face anvils are somewhat quieter in use (in a relative sense).

But... if the face is knackered then that will do you limited good as the neighbours will be complaining about the noise from all the loud swearing you'd be doing instead.


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## novocaine (29 Jan 2021)

can't say as I've ever watched it to be honest and don't intend to either, just more rubbish and hype to avoid. 

why swords? because you can't slice a bottle of water or a stick of wood with a coat hook and a slow motion capture of someone hanging a coat up isn't going to put bums on seats.  

In case you can't tell, I'm in complete agreement with you. 

finding an old ductile iron anvil that hasn't be sat outside or hasn't been used and abused for the past 50 years isn't going to be easy and to be honest, the noise reduction isn't going to be enough for your neighbour to be happy you chose it over a modern steal anvil. clink clink, heres to a forge pizza for tea.


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## KingAether (29 Jan 2021)

I found the FB marketplace the best place if you're looking for one, i put a wanted add up and had dozens come to me thenjust had to pick the right one. Managed to get a barely used 140kg shop anvil for £120 about a year ago. 
Collectors are also a problem, there are at least a few people in the UK with hundreds+ sat in a barn collecting dust


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## Sandyn (29 Jan 2021)

I think the prices of all used machinery and tools have risen recently. I like where old machinery and anvils, which are rusted, worn and pretty useless suddenly become 'vintage' as if it's a desirable feature!


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## Jacob (29 Jan 2021)

Are they being bought by preppers? There'll be a lot of useful scrap iron about as the apocalypse develops.


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## novocaine (29 Jan 2021)

Jacob said:


> Are they being bought by preppers? There'll be a lot of useful scrap iron about as the apocalypse develops.



Go away Jacob, you aren't needed here and neither are you comments intended to breed discontent.


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## Sandyn (29 Jan 2021)

Jacob said:


> Are they being bought by preppers? There'll be a lot of useful scrap iron about as the apocalypse develops


No, I don't think so. I think that people are realising the quality and great value of old things compared to much of what's being produced today and over the last few years.


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## doctor Bob (29 Jan 2021)

Any thing for the home hobby has rocketed.
I used to buy the odd set of dumbells, pair of 10KG £15.
Now they are £90.
I bought a little vintage pedal car, couple of years ago. paid £650 but it was mint. Now a ropey old one fetches £900 +


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## TFrench (29 Jan 2021)

Handtoolrescue on YouTube is making his own perfect pattern screwdrivers, he's ended up having to CNC them from billet and harden then because he can't find anywhere willing to forge small batches. Another chap I know is having new anvils cast in A2 tool steel - the first one came out of the mould the other day. 
Anvils are definitely having their moment - bit like shapers in the machine tool world. Couple of years ago you could get them for scrap, now a big one can be £3000.


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## KingAether (29 Jan 2021)

Wadkin, startrite, fobco etc all have gone up 500%+ in the last 5 years too looking at older posts and the prices people where paying


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## novocaine (29 Jan 2021)

Alec steel is having anvils forged for his shop too.


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## Inspector (29 Jan 2021)

I blame it on Wile E Coyote.

Pete


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## Jelly (29 Jan 2021)

TFrench said:


> Handtoolrescue on YouTube is making his own perfect pattern screwdrivers, he's ended up having to CNC them from billet and harden then because he can't find anywhere willing to forge small batches.



That fits with the conversation I was having, it seemed like the only sensible way to forge them by hand was with lots of skill, lots of time and several custom dies... 

They wouldn't be especially hard to make as a closed die forging in a massive press, but you'd need serious demand (or a tool and die making hobby) to justify that.




TFrench said:


> Anvils are definitely having their moment - bit like shapers in the machine tool world.



I don't really get the shaper thing, people coo over them like they're amazing, but getting beyond the very visual appeal of the big chips for a YouTuber, on a practical level everything they're genuinely useful for, a Slotter (like a nice Butler Toolroom model) is a far better choice.


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## Torx (29 Jan 2021)

I figured it’s the same as the ‘artisan made’ fine furniture found on FB marketplace from scaffold planks. Someone sells a decent anvil for a fair price and then anyone who digs one up from then end of their garden has licence to sell it for the same. Price of a good one goes up, resulting in a never ending spiral into silly money. Luckily I paid a good price for mine, it was free.


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## TFrench (29 Jan 2021)

Jelly said:


> I don't really get the shaper thing, people coo over them like they're amazing, but getting beyond the very visual appeal of the big chips for a YouTuber, on a practical level everything they're genuinely useful for, a Slotter (like a nice Butler Toolroom model) is a far better choice.


For me, I'd like to have mine up and running for doing larger cast pieces. If you're restoring something, or making something to "fit in" with an old machine it gives that parallel tool pattern you can't get in a mill. Realisitically it keeps slipping down the restoration queue because I don't actually have space for it! I've got a slotting head for my FP1 so hopefully got that covered without needing to buy a butler!


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## Keith 66 (29 Jan 2021)

People are trying it on with secondhand machinery but is it selling? I sold a fine Union graduate fully tooled on here last year & it was a struggle to get shot of it for £850 & i took an offer on that iirc!
A friend who is a scrap & general dealer reckons the buttocks has dropped out of the market & nobody is buying anything.
I just scrapped a good rebuilt vacuum former because i simply couldnt give the poxy thing away.
Anvils are more likely to be used as garden ornaments. I have one really nice brooks one & will be picking another anvil up from mother in laws in the near future, this one is a big 4 1/2cwt one, ancient & whats more it came out of our village forge where it was in use for centuries, its beaten half to death but it doesnt matter to me we will use it anyway & it will be nice to hear it ring a few hundred yards from where it came from.


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## --Tom-- (29 Jan 2021)

I’m glad I got my two reasonably. There has been a big resurgence, plus the US doesn’t have the same heritage we do so they get shipped over by the container load due to higher prices other side of pond. Sad in a way we’re losing them


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## TFrench (29 Jan 2021)

Keith 66 said:


> People are trying it on with secondhand machinery but is it selling? I sold a fine Union graduate fully tooled on here last year & it was a struggle to get shot of it for £850 & i took an offer on that iirc!


There does seem to be a lot of chancers that think they can charge dealer prices. I sell a lot of stuff and am generally happy if I can get 1/3 of what a dealer would want. Stuff like drills, mills and lathes and the more basic woodworking kit still sells well. I try to deal more in tooling though as its a lot easier to store and ship - and the margins are better!


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## JoeSheffer (30 Jan 2021)

Same with everything at the moment. It's lockdown and people having more hobby time. The price of everything, second hands bikes, gym equipment, old hand tools, has reached fever pitch. Facebook market place is full of lunatics putting old rusty stanley planes on there for £50-60. Rubbish - would take someone hours and hours to get them back into a working condition. I'm not sure anyone is actually buying anything, because sellers all seem to think they have appreciating assets. I'd just not buy anything at the moment!


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## dannyr (30 Jan 2021)

I'm lucky enough to have bought my smallish (not 'toy') anvil for a v few quid many years ago and use a cut-off piece of 'I' beam if outside.

one further confirmation of the demand (unless they're all unsold) is the number of sections of railway track being sold for the buyer to convert - just appeared on bay last few months, prices are not cheap - it's not too bad a material (manganese steel?) and you could use it as is but if you want to shape it to horn and plate, that's fine, but a lot of work and consumables for a pretty result.

might be worth looking along some old unused sidings?


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## stevek (30 Jan 2021)

I watched a Polish guy making one from a piece of railway track a couple of years ago, and he made a really nice job of it, but a lot of work and as has been said, a lot of consumables, and where do you get a bit of track? I seem to recall small bits of track being sold on ebay. Ive no desires to be forgeing anything but it is very handy to have somthing solid to hammer on rather than being tempted to hit the little anvil pad on my vice with anything heavy, so Ive stuck with my old lump of RSJ that someone flame cut the web back but sawed the top so its square at both ends and that lays on the shed floor by the door and its a useful thing to have, if you haven't got an anvil the lump of RSJ is cheap and cheerful,,,and portable!


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## rafezetter (30 Jan 2021)

If you want hand crafted steel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCpCdsQVewO267HkwWeDSusg - SHE, is a newish scandinavian artist working her way through traditional techniques and looks like how I imagine a proper Nordic Valkyrie should (though when she's hand polishing it can be a bit distracting  I swear I'm not a simp)

Alec Steel is another one (whom also sells anvils designed to his very exacting standards) - His delivery can be a bit overwhelming, but there's no denying his skill.

Jimmy DiResta bought an old anvil and renovated it by having the top milled then welding new steel to it.

There's a huge selection of really good, no BS Blacksmiths on YT (but also a few showing how to make sword from a leaf spring which I already knew was the best type of salvaged metal to use in case of an apocalypse )

I'd LOVE to try my hand at it - I have an anvil here (I can barely lift it and I'm a big bloke), no idea of the make, and the top is rounded over, but the horn is still good.


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## NormanB (30 Jan 2021)

KingAether said:


> I found the FB marketplace the best place if you're looking for one, i put a wanted add up and had dozens come to me thenjust had to pick the right one. Managed to get a barely used 140kg shop anvil for £120 about a year ago.
> Collectors are also a problem, there are at least a few people in the UK with hundreds+ sat in a barn collecting dust


It’s probably just one of their many vices.


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## Davey44 (31 Jan 2021)

Yes, anvil prices are £silly. I've been looking for a half decent one at a sensible price for our recently opened Men's Shed. 
When I see asking prices starting around £120 and going up to £200+ for scabby old things with a bowed top plate, no Hardy Hole and a broken tip to the taper I think Nah, I'll wait! 

I manage in my own home workshop with a 12" length of heavy RSJ, provided you don't mind the ringing noise and your neighbours are 'understanding'. I have jet engine at full thrust tinnitus, so adding in extra noise like that isn't good for my mood! 
My step father left me what must have been their farm's version of an anvil. It stands about 10" tall and has a star-like profile about 10" across. It's not exactly as useful as a proper anvil, but good enough for serious pounding hot metal!
I also have one of the smaller (18kg) imported anvils mounted on a substantial tree-trunk which is useful for smaller jobs.


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## Inspector (31 Jan 2021)

I understand in some cases wrapping a chain around an anvil can reduce the ringing. Have you guys tried it?

I took a blacksmithing class over 40 years ago on Saturdays at a local college. It was fun using the coal forges and the Scottish gent that taught the class apprenticed as a blacksmith. Since then I always wanted to do more but the tools including the anvils were always too much or beaten to death. About a decade ago there was an add in a local selling site for an anvil, portable farriers propane forge and some tools for $400Can. I jumped on it and brought them home. Now that I'm retired and don't live in a subdivision I should be able to make some carving tools with it and there is a very old hay rake with lots of spring steel on it for material. The anvil has the old weight markings on it (not accessible at the moment) and equals about 120/130lb. If I put it up for sale now I could likely triple or quadruple what I spent on it.

A tip for carrying an anvil or grinder about that size. Get a V belt and slip it over each end and grab both sides in the middle. You can easily pick it up and carry it like a big lunch kit. A piece of rope works too but I always seam to have an old fan belt the right length around but never a short piece of rope. 

Pete


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## Sandyn (31 Jan 2021)

Forget bitcoin, hello Anvils!!

I got one a couple of years ago for a reasonable price. It's about 100Kg, but I managed to bring it home in the real footwell of my car. It took a bit of effort to get it back out!!  
I have a chain wrapped round the base and I think it does dampen the noise, but I love the noise of an anvil working.
I don't like when I walk into the pionty end, it's really painful.


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jan 2021)

I picked up a small one about 18 months ago, definitely not made of chinesium, not marked but identical in every measurement and feature to this - SINGLE BICK ANVIL 12KG (28LBS) – Anvils
I paid £60 for it, it's unmarked. Probably big enough for anything I want it for.


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## johnnyb (31 Jan 2021)

anvils in the uk have a really fascinating history tbh. the germans and swedes seemed to make the best. but Dudley had our best makers they were exported to America by the thousands. so really a traditional anvil shape is actually a British shaped london pattern. the earliest maker was mousehole forge in Sheffield. Peter Wright of Dudley perfected making a one piece anvil that are considered more durable than the earlier welded anvils. like saws the Americans were slow to manufacture there own and so were a huge market for UK anvil forges


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## bourbon (31 Jan 2021)

we did some research when we put the blacksmith into our medieval living history display. Our guy is a trained farrier. I challenged him to make a horseshoe ( which were used in medieval times) without using the bick. It took him four times as long. Therefore we deduced the bick was an early improvement to a simple block of iron. Having said that, he uses a 1901 London pattern anvil and no one seems to notice. We did look at having one cast, but the cost was prohibitive


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## Jelly (31 Jan 2021)

Sandyn said:


> I got one a couple of years ago for a reasonable price. It's about 100Kg, but I managed to bring it home in the real footwell of my car. It took a bit of effort to get it back out!!



Several years ago I agreed to collect a 200kg anvil for a friend when I was passing the seller on business, seller loaded it with a tractor no sweat...

When I went to drop it off my friend, had failed to consider that 200kg was in fact really quite heavy, and was not in a position to safely lift it out between the two of us.

I then drove around for a month with it in the back of the car whilst waiting for him to sort it out (5 people, some 2×4 and a lifting strop) by which point I had acquired a reputation at work as "that guy with the anvil in his boot" which I still get reminded of in a suitably jocular fashion to this day.


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## dannyr (1 Feb 2021)

coincidently, just this am was looking at the latest post on a US thread (Vises on Garagejournal) where a guy chasing a large vice said the first relevant lot was an anvil which went for $5600 - it was about 400kg, but still .........


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## Rorschach (1 Feb 2021)

Nice to see smithing being taken up as a hobby but I do feel sorry for their neighbours.

I think a lot of people over estimate what they need and probably buy too big an anvil for the jobs they are likely to do. All my metal work is small and usually in silver so I don't own an anvil at all, I use a couple of different hammer heads which have been polished to a mirror shine and are used in my big Woden vice, they work great and cost me hardly anything.


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## kenledger (1 Feb 2021)

I looked for an anvil and the prices made them like Rocking Horse Sh**. I didn't want a full sized one due to space. I settled for a block of steel, i does the little jobs i want.
The TV show Forged in Steel? very weak and useless, don't know why it's aired really.


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Feb 2021)

Just don't be tempted to get a cheap one made from cast chinesium. I have a little 5kg one the surface of which can be be marked with a hammer ............. through sheet copper.


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