# Spruce Staining Opinions



## oakmitre (23 May 2016)

Hello, 

I'm after opinions on some staining results.

I have been trying for a while to get a nice finish on B&Q spruce plywood.

I know that spruce is prone to blotching, but I want to see what can be achieved with off the shelf standard WBP ply without resorting to visiting a timber yard or getting better ply.

After trying some branded petrol based stains (Colron wood dye etc) I wasn't happy with the results.

I decided to mix my own solvent based non grain raising stain ( to a secret formula ) 

The photos are of red and brown iron oxide applied to bare spruce ply, which has been sanded to 180 grit with an oribital sander. I have then rubbed it down gently with 600 grit by hand.

There is no pre sealing, no pre grain raising or knocking back. It's just straight from sanding to staining.

There is a bit of non stick matt stuck to the brown one - I turned it over before it had dried enough.

It is possible to get better results than this - or have I reached the limit of what can be expected ? 

Thanks Matt.


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## profchris (23 May 2016)

This is towards the top end of what can be achieved on spruce:






(Not my own work I hasten to add)

Searching for how to produce a sunburst guitar top will find you a range of techniques, some using alcohol based and some waterborne dyes. What they all have in common is washcoating the spruce with clear shellac before applying the dye. 

However, guitar tops are chosen to have minimal run-out, whereas spruce ply has plenty of exposed end grain. I'm sure you can do better than shown, but probably not guitar top standard.


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## oakmitre (23 May 2016)

The guitar does look a bit better than my efforts 

Although mine is insoluble (and unfinished) earth pigment as opposed to dyestuff.

It's something to aim for - I like the idea of turning a piece of B&Q plywood into a perfectly finished piece of wood.

I do also have a quantity of acetone soluble dye powder in blue/yellow/red - so I may try that as well.

Thanks.


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## ED65 (24 May 2016)

oakmitre":leidkcuz said:


> It is possible to get better results than this - or have I reached the limit of what can be expected ?


Given the self-imposed restictions I would say yes. It looks quite decent, I've certainly seen much worse results than these!

@profchris I think you can exactly match that guitar top with any wood, with any amount of grain runout, by applying enough finish that you're no longer working on wood any more. Then it would be no different to achieving that effect on steel or fibreglass, like on a hotrod. Of course this stretches the definition of 'staining' somewhat.


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## profchris (24 May 2016)

The guitar is a fairly high-end Gibson, so I'd expect the finish to be thin (less than 0.1 mm). But I haven't seen the instrument in question, though I have seen equivalently good French Polish finishes which would be substantially thinner. That definitely needs appropriately selected wood.

For cheap guitars you're right. Dip them in catalysed polyester and repeat until no flaws are visible. And they sound like plastic too, of course.


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## oakmitre (24 May 2016)

ED65 - thanks for the reply.

I did some more staining outside today on some normal spruce timber this time. I tried earth pigments and aniline blue dye powder.

The results were not as good. A lot of variation between the seasonal grain. I think the plywood is very suited to this stain due to its inferior grain !

The reason I am doing this instead of using a commercial product, is the stain/binder once dried is compatible with / has the added benefit of almost completely eliminating any grain raising caused by subsequent coats of water based finish.

I gently sanded the two examples above this morning and painted with Ronseal water based floor varnish. There is absolutely no grain raising at all.

The experiments continue.

Matt.


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## ED65 (25 May 2016)

oakmitre":dnn60ruj said:


> There is absolutely no grain raising at all.


Excellent! As far as I know that's a new fix for this, never seen anything similar mentioned before.

Are you getting any lifting of the pigments when the varnish is applied? That was my first worry about this as they're applied with no binder.


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## oakmitre (25 May 2016)

There is no transfer of the pigment into the water based finished unless it is rubbed hard during finish application.

The stain does require a very light sanding when dry, but this is because the binder dries with a slightly rough surface. It is not however from the grain.

As long as you wipe any coloured dust off there is no problem.

The binder liquid itself with no pigment added can be wiped onto sanded timber in a single stroke and it penetrates instantly. In fact going over it again causes an undesirable build up.

That surface is lightly sanded at 600 grit, it produces a very slight golden tinge which I don't like personally.( I suppose if you like an oil based poly warm effect, it does go towards doing that )

I've then painted side by side sanded pine ( door frames ). The one with the binder ( with a light sanding before finish ) dries smooth. The one without has that 'riven' affect when the season growth variations rise up.

There is a slight snag - you have to leave the piece over night after being treated, otherwise it doesn't work.

Matt.


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## ED65 (25 May 2016)

Sorry I somehow got it into my head that you weren't using a binder so stupid question there


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## oakmitre (25 May 2016)

ED65 - I'm afraid you will have to resume your search for the holy grail of wood stain. Another dead end


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## MIGNAL (26 May 2016)

That guitar looks cr*p. What a naff finish. If that's top end I'm glad I'm firmly at the bottom.


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## profchris (26 May 2016)

MIGNAL":2pp70kim said:


> That guitar looks cr*p. What a naff finish. If that's top end I'm glad I'm firmly at the bottom.



Not my aesthetic either, but it is a very even staining job which is what the OP was asking about. I prefer to select wood which looks good under clear finish and to keep the finish very thin.


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## MIGNAL (26 May 2016)

It's obviously taken from how old violins wear. They then take it to an extreme, a parody. The transition is far too severe for my taste but that look has now become a rather normal looking sunburst. It has a bit of a forced, unnatural appearance about it.


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