# Fitting Howdens kitchen units to plasterboard and stud wall.



## skronk (16 Feb 2015)

Hello all,

Want to fit 3 x 600mm double door wall units to the above. All will be screwed together, giving 1800mm run of units in my utility room. Unfortunately, where the units are going does not coincide with the studwork for fixing. I am unsure how to proceed. I take it plasterboard fixings will not do, and I cannot screw through backboard of units. The units are for crockery.

Should I cut some chipboard to fit the recess at back of units....say 1700mm wide and 720 high, screw this to studwork, then screw units to chipboard ?

Any advice appreciated !!!


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## Graham Orm (16 Feb 2015)

Mark the wall where the fixings for the units will go. Cut a horizontal slot in the plasterboard to expose the studs, this will have to be about 6" deep and the full width of where the units are going. Insert new stud horizontally at the correct height fixing well into the vertical studs that you have exposed. Re plasterboard the area. No need to plaster as it will all be hidden by the new units. Fix new units to new horizontal studs. 
For peace of mind you could fix a batten beneath the units with plasterboard screws just to help carry the vertical load.

The new stud should go up higher behind the existing plasterboard so that you have something to fix the flapping edge to.


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## Graham Orm (16 Feb 2015)

The red blocks are the new studs you will introduce.
The top edge of your cupboards will coincide with the top edge of the slot.

The lower red blocks are there only to catch the loose flapping edge of the plasterboard. The cupboards should fix to the top red stud.

Front:





Inside the wall:


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## blackrodd (16 Feb 2015)

As Graham said, a batten underneath, will support the main load screwed and grip filled, or similarto the studs.
These will be hidden from view by the under unit coving finish, or used for the pelmet lighting under the wall cupboards.
Then fit the units in the traditional manner with plasterboard fixings, and adjust, and finally I screw a 2x1 at the very top on the wall studs and gripfilled and finally neat ( ell) brackets to the cupboard tops, These again may not be seen with the cornice fitted.
As you say, there's a lot of weight up there and collectively you should find this works very well, as I have, and not very messy either!
Regards Rodders


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## fluffflinger (16 Feb 2015)

All the kitchens we sell use a continuous rail that attaches to the wall then the units lock to that. If the locking units on Howdens wall cabinets will work with this it's quick efficient and very secure, not to mention inexpensive!!! 

https://www.locksonline.com/buy/Cab...w_rpQTkm_eTR28RXEbavLDNzNimylOclM3RoCc3fw_wcB


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## Billy Flitch (16 Feb 2015)

It looks like that metal strip is based on a french cleat, so you could just fit a french cleat and be done with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cleat


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## Graham Orm (16 Feb 2015)

Billy Flitch":14quwio8 said:


> It looks like that metal strip is based on a french cleat, so you could just fit a french cleat and be done with it.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_cleat



You then sacrifice any adjustment.


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## Billy Flitch (16 Feb 2015)

Graham I`ve been fitting french cleats for about 45 years now and I have yet to sacrifice any thing.
I could make a post on how to fit them from A to Z but where would be the fun in that some times to discover how a thing works you just have to do it yourself.


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## skronk (16 Feb 2015)

Thanks to all who have taken time to reply. I am sure one of the solutions will work admirably.

Thanks again.


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## paulrockliffe (16 Feb 2015)

Plasterboard fixings will easily hold the weight if they're put in properly and the boards are sound. You can stick as many in as you want until you feel comfortable, but you'll be surprised at how few you actually need. The force trying to pull the fixings out will be relatively low, most of the force will be downwards applying a compressive force to boards. They're pretty strong in compression.

It may be that it's easier to use a different method, but it's not necessary.

As an example, I have a radiator supported by nothing but four plasterboard fixings, it's 1.8m x 0.6m, so will be as heavy as your cupboards if not more.


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## Graham Orm (16 Feb 2015)

Billy Flitch":15k5av2i said:


> Graham I`ve been fitting french cleats for about 45 years now and I have yet to sacrifice any thing.
> I could make a post on how to fit them from A to Z but where would be the fun in that some times to discover how a thing works you just have to do it yourself.



Fair enough Billy. I've used them myself with success. What I meant was that you would lose all the up, down, in, out, left, right adjustment that you get with a Howdens cabinet. This is often required when a wall is out, especially when you are trying to make 3 cabinets run neatly in a line.


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## Mar_mite (16 Feb 2015)

paulrockliffe":i1qh2ncl said:


> Plasterboard fixings will easily hold the weight if they're put in properly and the boards are sound. You can stick as many in as you want until you feel comfortable, but you'll be surprised at how few you actually need. The force trying to pull the fixings out will be relatively low, most of the force will be downwards applying a compressive force to boards. They're pretty strong in compression.
> 
> It may be that it's easier to use a different method, but it's not necessary.
> 
> As an example, I have a radiator supported by nothing but four plasterboard fixings, it's 1.8m x 0.6m, so will be as heavy as your cupboards if not more.



+1
Most of the weight it pushing down, you can get 4 plasterboard fixings per unit, it won't go anywhere.


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## Billy Flitch (16 Feb 2015)

Graham I know where your coming from and while I have not fitted a Howdens cab I can well imagine what you mean by the adjustment on the cab. When I fit a cab I have to have a system that works for me, on site almost every thing is on a price so there is only so much money in the job.
This is how I would do it, decide where on the cab I will fit the cleat it may be I can fit it directly behind any adjusters, hold the cleat on the wall and make a level line. Cut the cleat that goes on the wall a bit short so you can move the cab left or right. 
the cleat that goes on the cab leave long and fasten just one end offer the box up support and level, mark the box where the cleat touches.
take the box down and cut the cleat and fit.that's the adjustment up and down.
If two box gables are not siting true to each other that means the cleat on the wall is not siting true from one box to the other,I always carried thin packing pieces and here is the secret, a old pack of playing cards to make very fine adjustments.

Thanks very much have a nice day on to the next job, that's how you make money. Billy.


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## Graham Orm (17 Feb 2015)

Billy Flitch":32467to3 said:


> Graham I know where your coming from and while I have not fitted a Howdens cab I can well imagine what you mean by the adjustment on the cab. When I fit a cab I have to have a system that works for me, on site almost every thing is on a price so there is only so much money in the job.
> This is how I would do it, decide where on the cab I will fit the cleat it may be I can fit it directly behind any adjusters, hold the cleat on the wall and make a level line. Cut the cleat that goes on the wall a bit short so you can move the cab left or right.
> the cleat that goes on the cab leave long and fasten just one end offer the box up support and level, mark the box where the cleat touches.
> take the box down and cut the cleat and fit.that's the adjustment up and down.
> ...


 =D> :wink:


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## whittler1507 (17 Feb 2015)

A pack of cards lol, a good bit of advice there. Gives u something to do when having lunch too lol, can't believe I never thought of that...Thanks billy


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Feb 2015)

Not quite so thin as a pack of cards, but the bags of mixed sized plastic shims from Screwfix or wherever are invaluable for this type of work. If you've not got them, they're well worth the money.


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## busy builder (17 Feb 2015)

I cut a slot out of the plasterboard about 40mm deep and the length of the run of units less 20mm at each end, cut a length of 12mm ply screw to studs and fasten units to that. Takes 20 mins tops.


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## Graham Orm (17 Feb 2015)

busy builder":ivltji9n said:


> I cut a slot out of the plasterboard about 40mm deep and the length of the run of units less 20mm at each end, cut a length of 12mm ply screw to studs and fasten units to that. Takes 20 mins tops.




Best option so far.


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## xy mosian (17 Feb 2015)

On a run of units, especially wall units. I leave them hanging loose. 
Fix them together, fronts flush and in line. 
Last job is tightening to the wall. 
After all if they look good from the front!

xy


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## blackrodd (17 Feb 2015)

fluffflinger":3650qoii said:


> All the kitchens we sell use a continuous rail that attaches to the wall then the units lock to that. If the locking units on Howdens wall cabinets will work with this it's quick efficient and very secure, not to mention inexpensive!!!
> 
> https://www.locksonline.com/buy/Cab...w_rpQTkm_eTR28RXEbavLDNzNimylOclM3RoCc3fw_wcB



Even better, not seen these before!
Regards Rodders


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## fluffflinger (17 Feb 2015)

Guys this is my business, not fitting but sales design and project management and trust me (and my fitters) there is no better or quicker method than the metal rail I suggested earlier, it guarantees at least one fixing into the stud and the others can be through the board using a good quality spring toggle style fixing. 

Sorry but we don't have time for french cleats or chopping out plasterboard, plus both methods make redundant the built in adjusters and necessitate fixing through the back of the cabinet. Not sure my customers would like screws thru the back of their £30k German Kitchen into hidden battens. 

Apologies to those I may offend but if a Howdens cabinet will sit on thee rail I linked to you would be well advised to use it, IMHO.


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## busy builder (18 Feb 2015)

fluffflinger":2l22olcp said:


> Guys this is my business, not fitting but sales design and project management and trust me (and my fitters) there is no better or quicker method than the metal rail I suggested earlier, it guarantees at least one fixing into the stud and the others can be through the board using a good quality spring toggle style fixing.
> 
> Sorry but we don't have time for french cleats or* chopping out plasterboard, plus both methods make redundant the built in adjusters and necessitate fixing through the back of the cabinet*. Not sure my customers would like screws thru the back of their £30k German Kitchen into hidden battens.
> 
> Apologies to those I may offend but if a Howdens cabinet will sit on thee rail I linked to you would be well advised to use it, IMHO.



No it doesn't, the batten is 12mm therefore flush with plasterboard face and cabinet adjuster attaches to batten thereby adjustable through the cabinet as designed.

Fitting the rail is good, I will try that out next when I fit my next kitchen, but the cabinet sides will need chopping out as well to allow the rail to pass through each cabinet.


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## Titch (18 Feb 2015)

My kitchen uses this system been up years. Each cabinet back came with a curved piece removed from the top corner or each cabinet. When I extend and add to my kitchen ill stick with it. But I must say all my a bones are on external walls. So unsure of effectiveness on ops original question as to plasterboard.


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## fluffflinger (18 Feb 2015)

Busy Builder; The cabinets we buy either from our carcass manufacturer if we are putting together a component kitchen or our German Manufacturer all supply the rail in sizes that fit each cabinet. It's only if you buy it separately that it comes in long lengths. Easier for us as when the guys have a level line at the appropriate height they simply measure and mark where each rail sits to as to give the cabs a chance to move a few mm in each direction to get them flush. If you wish to use the rail as a continuous length then yes you'd need to notch out the gables on the cabinets. 

Titch; On plasterboard walls you will always hit at least one stud and a single fixing through that will provide very solid support the other fixings help and also stabilise the rail. Remember most of the forces are in shear so even just fixing to plasterboard is more adequate if you use the correct fixings. 

I have watched our guys put up a run of wall cabinets in literally minutes using this system. I really don't see the need to invent a system other than the one used by all quality kitchen manufacturers and installers. I have seen or heard of nothing that is quicker or more efficient.


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## Graham Orm (18 Feb 2015)

I've fitted hundreds of cabinets and when fitting a long run onto a stud wall I've always used the 'new stud' method I've shown at the top of this thread.....why oh why, oh why didn't I think of the plywood method?

That's how I'll be doing it from now on.


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