# Coping Saw Push or Pull?



## J_SAMa (6 Apr 2013)

HI all,
This might be obvious for most of you, but I really have no idea if a coping saw should be used on the push or pull strokes... It came with the blade installed for pull but I couldn't get used to it so I switched it to push. Is there a problem with either?
Also,is it normal for the blade to heat up? My blade was so hot I could smell the wood burning slightly (it was spruce, and honestly spruce burning smelled kinda nice to me ).
Sam


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## carlb40 (6 Apr 2013)

No either is fine depending on how you work. I find push ( teeth cutting down ) easier and gets better results. However my use is for skirting boards etc so i always have the face up to cut the cope. 

I have had blades get warm but never burn my way through timber. That says 2 things to me
1 - A blunt blade 

2 - You are going to fast with the cut.


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## J_SAMa (6 Apr 2013)

carlb40":1j8703qs said:


> No either is fine depending on how you work. I find push ( teeth cutting down ) easier and gets better results. However my use is for skirting boards etc so i always have the face up to cut the cope.
> 
> I have had blades get warm but never burn my way through timber. That says 2 things to me
> 1 - A blunt blade
> ...



Hi Carl,
Thanks. I'm cutting dovetails with the saw, should I use push?
It wasn't really "burning" as there were no marks left on the blade or the wood, it just gave off this smell (a bit like what you get when you use a circular saw to do a long rip or a power router). I tried to slow down the strokes but once I did, it took really long to saw out a joint. The blade shouldn't be blunt because I just bought it this afternoon
Sam


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## carlb40 (6 Apr 2013)

Well if you prefer to push then yes. Especially if the good face of the timber is facing you. Pulling stands a chance of getting tear out on your good face. 

Ahh it that case i wonder if there was moisture in the timber? However some timbers do give of a scent when cut. The blade should be reasonable, but like everything it can be improved upon. But just use the blades until blunt.


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Apr 2013)

Coping saws, fret saws, jewellers saws and the like are usually pulled, so as to keep the blade under tension and therefore straight. The frames are not rigid enough to ensure this on the push stroke, so if the blade is at all likely to jam it's probably best to pull.


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## Jacob (6 Apr 2013)

phil.p":1x6i7tfh said:


> Coping saws, fret saws, jewellers saws and the like are usually pulled, so as to keep the blade under tension and therefore straight. The frames are not rigid enough to ensure this on the push stroke, so if the blade is at all likely to jam it's probably best to pull.


I used to think that and it seems logical. But in fact the frame connects both ends of the blade and it makes no difference which end the handle is on
Either way, if it snatches, one part of the blade tightens and the other slackens


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## J_SAMa (6 Apr 2013)

Jacob":3aezmgs5 said:


> phil.p":3aezmgs5 said:
> 
> 
> > Coping saws, fret saws, jewellers saws and the like are usually pulled, so as to keep the blade under tension and therefore straight. The frames are not rigid enough to ensure this on the push stroke, so if the blade is at all likely to jam it's probably best to pull.
> ...



The same applies to frame saws? I might be buying one for heavy ripping.

Sam


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Apr 2013)

Jacob":2x99fijb said:


> phil.p":2x99fijb said:
> 
> 
> > Coping saws, fret saws, jewellers saws and the like are usually pulled, so as to keep the blade under tension and therefore straight. The frames are not rigid enough to ensure this on the push stroke, so if the blade is at all likely to jam it's probably best to pull.
> ...


That doesn't follow - if you're pulling, the part between what you are cutting and the handle is straight because you're pulling it, and the part behind what you are cutting is still straight because it's under tension from the frame : otherwise there'd be no point in having a sprung frame.


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## Jacob (6 Apr 2013)

Whichever way you move it one end of the frame is pushing and the other is pulling, irrespective of the handle. It could even be in the middle. 
More important is the face of the workpiece - a fret or coping saw with the handle behind the workpiece would have the teeth towards the face _and_ the handle







But a bigger saw would be the other way round - teeth facing away from the handle as the handle is worked towards the face side instead of from behind.

Perhaps. I'm making this up as I go along!


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## carlb40 (6 Apr 2013)

All i know is for 15+ years i have pushed a coping saw without any probs. Wrong it may be, but it works for me


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## Jacob (6 Apr 2013)

carlb40":1lfxsi5o said:


> All i know is for 15+ years i have pushed a coping saw without any probs. Wrong it may be, but it works for me


No that's fine! You'd only want to pull it if you are working from below like the chap in the picture above.


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## Racers (6 Apr 2013)

Hi,

The frame on a coping saw isn't the strongest thing in the world, that is why the blade deflects as you cut, pulling will help the blade to stay straight like in a Japanese saw, but for a really controllable coping saw its best to make a bow saw for coping saw blades, this is mine.





Works very well, makes an Eclipse bow saw seem flimsy. 

Pete


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## J_SAMa (6 Apr 2013)

Paul Sellers has his saw cutting on the push, I'll just do what he does...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14RSFkOmncs
2:38


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## GazPal (7 Apr 2013)

J_SAMa":202p91y9 said:


> Hi all,
> This might be obvious for most of you, but I really have no idea if a coping saw should be used on the push or pull strokes... It came with the blade installed for pull but I couldn't get used to it so I switched it to push. Is there a problem with either?
> Also,is it normal for the blade to heat up? My blade was so hot I could smell the wood burning slightly (it was spruce, and honestly spruce burning smelled kinda nice to me ).
> Sam



Hi Sam,

The norm is for teeth facing away from the handle with coping saws and teeth facing toward the handle with fret and piercing saws which tend to be used vertically and with handle down. With western saws you typically drive teeth into the face side of your work and yes blades heat up during use, but this can be eased by occasionally running the blade through candle wax as you work.

Two camps exist in terms of blade direction on coping saws, but most use them in the manner I stated. Using them in whichever manner feels best to you usually wins the day. :wink:


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Apr 2013)

Different parts of the country, maybe. I was always taught that this type of saw cut on the pull, and I have never ( in nearly 50 yrs) , seen anyone use one cutting on the push stroke.


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## GazPal (7 Apr 2013)

phil.p":36e36yqx said:


> Different parts of the country, maybe. I was always taught that this type of saw cut on the pull, and I have never ( in nearly 50 yrs) , seen anyone use one cutting on the push stroke.



Perhaps, but - in spite of seeing both methods used regardless of location (Also during the past 50 yrs or so) - the majority of craftsmen I know tend to use a push stroke with coping saws and pull stroke when using fret and piercing saws vertically. Does it really matter as long as it works for the user?


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## xy mosian (7 Apr 2013)

Could we settle on " Teeth cutting towards the face side "?
xy


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## GazPal (7 Apr 2013)

xy mosian":1ihu1wyt said:


> Could we settle on " Teeth cutting towards the face side "?
> xy



Always my take on how the blade is set western style


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## Jacob (7 Apr 2013)

xy mosian":1a2yl3u9 said:


> Could we settle on " Teeth cutting towards the face side "?
> xy


Yes that's what I was trying to say earlier.  Except fret saws perhaps, where the thin blade and bendy frame mean you have to pull rather than push. Even then they can break on the back stroke if you are not careful.


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## xy mosian (7 Apr 2013)

I would bow to anyone with experience, but surely even with the Fret Saw, best cuts would be with teeth cutting towards the face. In that case if only to trap the work against the table during the cut.
xy

EDIT, That is of course assuming the work is on a table and not in fresh air in a vice. In which case I agree pull.
xy


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## bugbear (8 Apr 2013)

Frame saw vary - if (and only if) the frame is stiff enough, pull and push strokes can work equally well.

Bow saws (AKA turning saws) are always configured for push strokes, but fret saws are commonly set for pull; this fits with the workholding for fretwork, which is a birds-mouth.

Jewellers saws vary. Some old designs (very pretty...) have quite a weak spring in the frame, and could only work on the pull. But the Eclipse frame is VERY stiff, and could be used to suit the work (especially the workholding) to hand.











BugBear


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## GazPal (8 Apr 2013)

Unless you're clamping upright, fret and jeweller's saws tend to be used with the handle beneath the work/on the reverse side of the workpiece, so "teeth facing the face" tends to ring true in most instances.


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## bugbear (8 Apr 2013)

GazPal":11rdu0ri said:


> Unless you're clamping upright, fret and jeweller's saws tend to be used with the handle beneath the work/on the reverse side of the workpiece, so "teeth facing the face" tends to ring true in most instances.



Jewellers (and horologists) do so many varied things that both directions are exploited.

There's a lot less variation in hand held fretwork.

BugBear


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## GazPal (8 Apr 2013)

bugbear":330e454k said:


> GazPal":330e454k said:
> 
> 
> > Unless you're clamping upright, fret and jeweller's saws tend to be used with the handle beneath the work/on the reverse side of the workpiece, so "teeth facing the face" tends to ring true in most instances.
> ...




My wife's a jeweller who occasionally dabbles in horology (Watchmaking) and I'd asked her before making my post. She confirmed her piercing saw blades are normally fitted with their teeth facing the handle, as she normally cuts materials set on a v-board with the blade held vertically in the cut. That is unless she needs to cut something in the vise and then - depending on materials being dealt with - she uses either a piercing saw with it's blade reversed, or a hacksaw.


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## inkyblue (8 Apr 2013)

I've always pushed. Works great for me scribing skirting or dovetails.


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