# How to open a locked and broken upvc door?



## toolsntat (12 Sep 2021)

The gearbox has quite likely disintegrated.
Before I buy a new door and frame is there a little trick to learn?
It's fully latched.
Cheers Andy


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## clogs (12 Sep 2021)

with the gearbox gone just put a saw thru it and buy a new'un....
newer doors are far superior to the old junk fitted years ago.....


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## Setch (12 Sep 2021)

Do you know what type of locking points it had? Rollers, hooks, deadbolts etc?


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## artie (12 Sep 2021)

I had a new PVC door fitted recently. I asked the salesman about security, I said to him I hear these doors are pretty easy to open.
His reply was, For someone who knows what they are doing.
I'm sure someone on here knows what they are doing.


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## Rorschach (12 Sep 2021)

artie said:


> I had a new PVC door fitted recently. I asked the salesman about security, I said to him I hear these doors are pretty easy to open.
> His reply was, For someone who knows what they are doing.
> I'm sure someone on here knows what they are doing.



Security on any house with a window is very low.


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## toolsntat (12 Sep 2021)

Setch said:


> Do you know what type of locking points it had? Rollers, hooks, deadbolts etc?


Unfortunately not.
Cheers Andy


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## Jameshow (12 Sep 2021)

Is it the lock that's broken or the linkages inside the door. 

If the lock then you should be able to bump it with a club hammer, if the linkage a new door if probably a better idea. 

This is all theoretical knowledge btw! 

Cheers James


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## mikej460 (12 Sep 2021)

We had the same problem with a good quality Everest door, so called in a local locksmith who was able to remove the old lock and fit a new one with commensurate and worrying ease.


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## toolsntat (12 Sep 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Is it the lock that's broken or the linkages inside the door.
> 
> If the lock then you should be able to bump it with a club hammer, if the linkage a new door if probably a better idea.
> 
> ...


Most likely to be the gearbox as the "lift to latch" is non existent and as a result the key won't go full circle.
Cheers Andy


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## Silfi (12 Sep 2021)

I had the same problem and ground/hacksawed thro the hinges. Door then came out from the hinge side.


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## Jonwar (12 Sep 2021)

toolsntat said:


> The gearbox has quite likely disintegrated.
> Before I buy a new door and frame is there a little trick to learn?
> It's fully latched.
> Cheers Andy


Hi Andy, I'm a locksmith here in Ireland te best thing you can do is do a search on the master locksmiths association website for a local locksmith and give them a call they should give you a very close estimation of cost before they call, they will turn up and be gone in about an hour. Your door will be left working great and it will cost you a lot less than if you try it yourself. PM me if you need anymore help.
Jon


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## Cabinetman (12 Sep 2021)

Silfi said:


> I had the same problem and ground/hacksawed thro the hinges. Door then came out from the hinge side.


I was thinking similarly, is it possible to drift the hinge pins out?


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## Cabinetman (12 Sep 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I was thinking similarly, is it possible to drift the hinge pins out?


Forgot to mention if you have jam bolts this won’t work obviously.


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## Setch (13 Sep 2021)

Depending on agree and accessibility, I've drifted the hinge pins out a number of times.

I've also had good results spreading the door and frame apart, using a special tool, but a 3" bolster will work as a substitute, and tapping the locking points back - if you get lucky moving one will open everything as they're linked. An air wedge will help enormously, and they're very useful tools to have for a wide variety of jobs.


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## Fergie 307 (13 Sep 2021)

Just get a locksmith out. Far quicker and easier than replacing the door and frame, probably a lot cheaper too. If you can get it open then it's easy and cheap to replace. On mine the complete mechanism was only £50. Have you got another door with the same mechanism? If so just get the manufacturer's details and model number and Google it. Or take the mechanism out of the identical door so you can see how it operates, then you will see how to unlatch it. All that was wrong with mine was that the cam that turns to operate the rods to the latches had broken, so the handle was no longer actually connected to the mechanism. Took all of ten minutes to change out the whole thing, which came as a complete assembly with new rods and latches.


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## Stevekane (13 Sep 2021)

I was disapointed that our irish locksmith friend above didnt spill the beans,,,a trade secret perhaps? Anyway, whilst were all having a go I tried once to open a locked upvc window, I was told that the trick was to use somthing like an allen key hooked in round the edge of the door and slid down untill it caught one of the locking rollers, pulling down on one roller disengages them all,,,,however whilst it made sense and I could see the priciple on another window, I couldn't get it to work,,but it might be worth a try?
Steve.


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## Jonwar (13 Sep 2021)

Stevekane said:


> I was disapointed that our irish locksmith friend above didnt spill the beans,,,a trade secret perhaps? Anyway, whilst were all having a go I tried once to open a locked upvc window, I was told that the trick was to use somthing like an allen key hooked in round the edge of the door and slid down untill it caught one of the locking rollers, pulling down on one roller disengages them all,,,,however whilst it made sense and I could see the priciple on another window, I couldn't get it to work,,but it might be worth a try?
> Steve.


As much as I'd like to spill the beans on all our trade secrets, opened a failed multipoint lock can vary so much on the type of door, what's actually failed type of lock and the best approach to opening it with the least amount of damage also most multipoint locks fail due to external factors like a dropped door, warpping or binding on the receivers. This is where experience doing the job falls in. Our author could spend hours trying different methods and causing damage to the door which is very easy on pvc, then if he does open it he now has no lock on the door and is in a panic trying to find a replacement once he finds one he then fits it and hasn't resolved the initial issue of the door working correctly and in a few months finds himself back at square one. Where if her gets a MLA locksmith everything is done and dusted in an hour and his door will work like brand new. I've no problem giving advice but I will always advise the easiest and safest option.


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## loc0 (13 Sep 2021)

I solved my "lost key" issue for the upvc patio door by drilling approx halfway through the lock and destroying internal 'teeth' in the process (drill 2-3mm below keyhole with 5-6mm drill). Once done lock can be opened with any key that fits into the keyhole. After that, I replaced the old lock with a new one from b&q. Cost me 20mins in drilling and driving + 5-10?£ for a new insert.


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## toolsntat (13 Sep 2021)

Perhaps I should add that just knowing how would be enough for me to proceed quite diligently but I understand that there's different types and likely different approaches to doing it.
This is a young lady who lives on her own and I am just trying to prevent a "ripoff" scenario.
A new door and frame is not out of the question.
In the meantime I've told her to get some quotes from the local locksmiths.

Luckily the last 3 gearboxes I changed were all open doors 

Cheers Andy


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## pe2dave (14 Sep 2021)

Devious suggestion: Look for a local 'locksport' practioner?
Took me about 30 seconds to open an original lock in my patio doors (upvc).
Facebook groups - search locksport. Then ask.
Much cheaper than a locksmith.


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## Setch (14 Sep 2021)

Whilst I agree with Jonwar, having also been a locksmith for 10 years, a wide prying tool (ie: 3"+) or an airbag is unlikely to do much harm, and members of this forum are typically well above average with their problem solving and practical mechanical skills, so there's a sporting chance they'll get it open.

A locksport enthusiast is unlikely to be much help, as this isn't a lock which needs picking. I pick locks for business and recreation, but this is a quite different kettle of fish. 

My advice is get your wide prying tool and/or airbag, and try to lever the door away from the frame at the extreme top and bottom (not at the same time). 

This should give you a chance to peek at the locking points and see what they are. A wide tool will not do much harm to the upvc, but avoid anything which focuses force in a small area - uPVC will dent easily if you use anything narrower than 2" wide. Once you've seen the locking points, you can usually infer which was they need to move to unlock the mechanism, and with some ingenuity you can persuade them to move thusly, and open the door. 

Let us know what you find, and we might be able to offer more specific advice.


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## toolsntat (17 Sep 2021)

Ok, finally had a moment to look at it.
Many thanks to all who chipped in, much appreciated.
Put an airbag in gap at bottom to tease open the gap. Established position of latch roller and slipped in a scraper under it. Knocked it up and voila.
The gearbox was unlocked/knackered enough for both latches to move to "open".
Picked up replacement gearbox and re-fitted system.
So why did it fail?
On top of age related wear and tear the door had dropped causing the latching rollers to bottom out in their receivers. This meant that to get the key to turn freely and deadbolt you had to rotate hard on the handle and make the rollers"lift" the door. This extra strain snapped the gearbox mechanism
Door duly adjusted.
New door now on hold.
Cheers Andy


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## Richard_C (17 Sep 2021)

Thanks for telling us how you sorted it. We all learn from others and taking the time to 'finish off' a thread like this is very helpful.


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## Tezza1 (24 Oct 2021)

Hello All,

Need a bit of help, my 9 year old Upvc conservatory has a pair of outward opening doors and I have noticed that the handle of one of the doors fails to return to the horizontal position
when operated. Its as if a return spring has broken. The locking mechanism consists of 3 claws, 4 rollers together with top and bottom bolts. The name on the mechanism is Safeware.
Would really appreciate any assistance from anyone who has any experience with this type of lock failure and if its possible to replace the broken item or is it likely that a replacement lock itself
is required. I take it that when all the screws are removed then the complete lock ( top to bottom) is removed in its entirety.
Thanks in advance.


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## CaylinBrooke (10 Jan 2022)

You can drill out the locker from your door, its a barbarian method but it works pretty good


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## Spectric (10 Jan 2022)

If you remove the handles then the euro lock will be protruding enough to get a pair of mole grips on it, now break the lock by bending side to side, they fail at the point the retaining screw enters from the end. You now can attempt to move the mechanism manually. This is assuming it is an average nothing special lock and not an anti bump / anti snap type like CY311 UK Oval Double Cylinder.


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## toolsntat (10 Jan 2022)

CaylinBrooke said:


> You can drill out the locker from your door, its a barbarian method but it works pretty good





Spectric said:


> If you remove the handles then the euro lock will be protruding enough to get a pair of mole grips on it, now break the lock by bending side to side, they fail at the point the retaining screw enters from the end. You now can attempt to move the mechanism manually. This is assuming it is an average nothing special lock and not an anti bump / anti snap type like CY311 UK Oval Double Cylinder.



In answer to whom please?
Cheers Andy


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## CaylinBrooke (13 Jan 2022)

CaylinBrooke said:


> You can drill out the locker from your door, its a barbarian method but it works pretty good


I was told about this method by my friend who's  locksmith newham . It's quite easy and fast method to get your door open, but you'll need to replace the lock as this one will be damaged significantly.


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## Setch (13 Jan 2022)

Ignore the advice above, it has no relevance to your question. 

If your handle is staying in the upright position after you lift it to look the door you're right in guessing that a spring has failed.

If you're lucky, the spring will be in the handles, often a spring cassette which can be replaced.

If the handle is unsprung, then you'll need to remove the lock mechanism and replace the lockcase, or that spring if you can get it as a spare. 

Take the handles off as nd let us know what you find. 

PS: ToolsnTat - congrats on sorting original issue, and telling us how it worked out.


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