# The MkII Paul Sellers Workbench Build



## NickN (22 Nov 2017)

With perfect timing for my re-entry into learning woodworking as a complete beginner, I saw a few weeks back that Paul Sellers was releasing a new series on his Woodworking Masterclasses website, and Youtube, free of charge, showing how to build a revised version of his workbench, which features a single top and well, and various changes to dimensions and joints.

So, always being one of those idiots that love to jump in at the deep end and see how fast I sink (or, possibly, swim), I decided to make this my first EVER proper piece I'll make (not counting little things like a sharpening plate holder and spatula, or cobbled together stuff like my scrollsaw stand). Although my workshop is far from fully kitted out yet, I felt I had enough to make a decent start, and hopefully work alongside the release of each episode in the series.

I may well end up seeking advice in this thread as I go along, and there may be a hiatus while I get a bandsaw sorted out soon, but all being well I'll keep progressing nicely. I'll welcome any comments and criticism, as I've got no-one in person to rebuke me for getting things wrong... (hammer) 

Building a workbench without a workbench is obviously always interesting, but luckily I had bought a couple of 'Jawhorse' clamping trestles last year during a Homebase clearance sale, and they are proving to be worth their weight in gold.

Ok, here goes:


Picking up the timber needed from Davies Timber in Wythall, Birmingham (who I can highly recommend):









The same pile of wood now on the workshop floor:








Gratuitous plane shot - I tried several sizes for squaring and flattening the bench top stud timber, and ended up finding the 5 1/2 (size 15 in Millers Falls models) gave about the best result for me.













For laminating the bench top I used 3 x 2 C24 Scant, which rather unfortunately is slightly larger in depth than the recommended 63mm x 38mm 3 x 2 C16 CLS - so currently my laminated bench top is a little wider than it should be, oh well. Here the boards are clamped up after gluing - the Jawhorse clamps really helped here too.








After laminating, planing the whole surface as one - here's a before and after shot.












Finally in the bench top preparation, cutting to length, 66" in this version. I marked all round with a knife and chiselled out a small groove to keep the saw aligned.
Oh, and you didn't see that nasty ol' hardpoint saw, it's your imagination. My newly ordered traditional Spear and Jackson hadn't arrived then, and I haven't got around to sharpening any of my old saws yet, so this, bought before I knew any better, did the job nicely.


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## nabs (22 Nov 2017)

excellent - I love a bench build, and will be interested to hear how Mr Sellers has modified the design of his bench too. Top marks for the MF plane also - once you have tried their fabulous lever caps you wish all your planes had one


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## DBT85 (22 Nov 2017)

Perfect timing, I was calling some suppliers today about the wood for mine! Always a pleasure to see someone else cock it up before I do :lol: 

One question, why 66" when you had another 6" on there that was perfectly fine?

Wasn't looking at CLS for mine just because of having to plane down the roundovers.

Also, if you sign up to his woodworking masterclass site, you get the video a week earlier than youtube and it's still free. They also ended up emailing me and offering a month sub to the rest of the paid content for £1.20 which was impossible to say no to.

EDIT: You're in the Woo too? Small world! Did you sort a vice yet only I won 2 Record 52 1/2s on ebay for £77


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## NickN (22 Nov 2017)

nabs":13lmsalb said:


> Top marks for the MF plane also - once you have tried their fabulous lever caps you wish all your planes had one



Great planes aren't they? Mind you, after much tweaking I even got my WoodRiver Chinesey thing planing really well and taking lovely translucent shavings, so I reckon a lot is down to fettling, too. But yes, that MF lever cap is a sound design.



DBT85":13lmsalb said:


> Perfect timing, I was calling some suppliers today about the wood for mine! Always a pleasure to see someone else cock it up before I do :lol:
> 
> One question, why 66" when you had another 6" on there that was perfectly fine?
> 
> Wasn't looking at CLS for mine just because of having to plane down the roundovers.



Haha, oh yes, I fully anticipate several cocking it up moments ahead!

I took it down to 66" because the apron timber is only just long enough for that, but also, not visible in the photo, in that last few inches on the underside was a stonking great split in one of the studs, so it made sense to keep to the plan, really.

I did find that the roundovers came down very quickly what with the initial planing before laminating and then another session after - they look virtually like square edge now.

I have a couple of vices stashed away somewhere, a Woden 189 B/2 (same as Record 52 1/2) and a Record 53A - will see which fits better once it's all assembled!


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## Paul200 (22 Nov 2017)

I was just going to comment on nabs' excellent workbench build WIP and I find that not one, but two others are at it too! I've ordered the timber for mine today. Not a Paul Sellers or a trad English, just something I know I'll be able to use for what I do - but it seems to be the season for bench building!

I hope your builds go well NickN and DBT85. I'll be watching closely.


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## Rorschach (22 Nov 2017)

Look forward to the results. Just wish I actually had space for a bench like this.


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## DBT85 (23 Nov 2017)

Wouldn't mind seeing your cut list if you still have it. The Sellers one is only listing the final dimensions but obviously it's all laminates. I'll probably sketchup one before I order anyway but handy to get an idea at least.


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## NickN (23 Nov 2017)

Sure thing, here's the cut list based on the sizes and lengths that Davies Timber had available. In reality I ended up with one or two a little shorter (aprons) and longer (bearer) as it just happened to match odd lengths they had, and anything over 2.4m I had cut in half, the halves (or divisions thereof) still work out fine for the lengths needed in the bench requirements.

TOP: 50x75 NOMINAL = CLS 3.6m x 4 (C24 Scant, actual size 43x69)
LEGS: 75x100 NOMINAL = REDWOOD PSE 4.2m x 1 (actual size 70 x 95)
WELL: 38x175 NOMINAL = REDWOOD PSE 3.6m x 1 (actual size 33x170)
APRON: 50x150 NOMINAL = REDWOOD PSE 3.6m x 2 (actual size 45 x 145)
RAILS: 50x175 NOMINAL = REDWOOD PSE 3.0m x 1 (actual size 45x170)
BEARER: 50x100 NOMINAL = REDWOOD PSE 2.4m x 1 (actual size 45x95)
WEDGES: TBC


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## AndyT (23 Nov 2017)

Looks good so far.

Looking at the picture of trimming the end off, are you left handed? I'm right handed but would find it easier to stand the other side and have the offcut to my right.
If you are right handed but can saw straight with the waste to the left or the right, that's a useful knack to have and maintain.


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## DBT85 (23 Nov 2017)

Perfect thanks.

I'll probably do a model first and see what mine comes out at and then call before I head up to see what they have!


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## NickN (23 Nov 2017)

AndyT":2us5b6ws said:


> Looking at the picture of trimming the end off, are you left handed? I'm right handed but would find it easier to stand the other side and have the offcut to my right.
> If you are right handed but can saw straight with the waste to the left or the right, that's a useful knack to have and maintain.



I'm right handed but can saw a nice wonky line just as wonkily whether the waste is to the left or right :lol: But no in all seriousness I don't find it bothers me which side is waste, hadn't really thought about it, but in a situation like this it was handy to grab the waste piece in my left hand to reduce the risk of tearing of the underside.

I have tried sawing left handed and it worked reasonably well too but not my preferred choice.


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## yeti (27 Nov 2017)

Looking to build a bench next and thought about using CLS too.. although my local wood yard (Brooks Bros) will sell me Euro Redwood for not a lot more.. Worth going for Redwood over CLS wood (Spruce?)?


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## DBT85 (27 Nov 2017)

I think even Sellers only used CLS for the top, though I could be wrong. I'll just be doing redwood.


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## yeti (28 Nov 2017)

I think his original bench was made using new square-edge sawn timber (when he was State side?):
https://paulsellers.com/2012/06/making-your-workbench/

This latest bench build is recycled studding..


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## NickN (29 Nov 2017)

Yes, the first bench was square edged 2 x 4, the new version is rounded 2 x 3 - quite why I don't know but can guess that it might be a combination of keeping weight reasonable, costs lower and possibly also with the new way of tongue and grooving the well board into the bench top the old version had too much depth.


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## El Barto (29 Nov 2017)

Looking good. I built my "Sellers bench" earlier this year as a beginner too, it was a great learning experience. It did feel a bit overwhelming at times but once it's done it's a damn good feeling. 

I started out with CLS and QUICKLY realised that planing all the round edges down to flat and square was going to suck. So started again with PAR. First lesson learned...


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## DBT85 (4 Dec 2017)

Got your mortices done yet Nick? Took Sellers ages in whatever those legs of his were, sounded solid!


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## thetyreman (5 Dec 2017)

it's going to be well worth it, can't wait to see how this turns out


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## NickN (5 Dec 2017)

Update will be coming in a few days - my work shifts have interfered recently #-o I make a point of NOT woodworking after a tiring shift, tiredness can too easily lead to mistakes or accidents.

Still, it's work wot pays for the hobby so, can't grumble too much


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## DBT85 (6 Dec 2017)

I know the feeling nick, 15 years in and shift work still can screw me over!


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Dec 2017)

I did eleven years of nights, seven on seven off - it's a killer.


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## NickN (6 Dec 2017)

Managed a slightly earlier finish today so made a start on the aprons - four lengths of 145x45mm PAR/PSE needed to come down to 40mm depth so, having practiced my hand planing abilities on the bench top, thought this would be an ideal opportunity to try out the easier option, a planer thicknesser. Went very well, nice smooth and square finish, just a once over with a smoothing plane should finish the surface nicely.









Next job: laminating two and two of these apron boards to get two finished width boards of c. 290mm - then the legs and rails and the job I'm half dreading and half looking forward to, mortise and tenoning them (which will be my first ever proper attempt at this joint :shock: )


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## NickN (12 Dec 2017)

Quick progress report:

Planing, squaring and laminating the two boards for each apron.







The two c. 2 metre lengths of timber for the bench legs before starting work on them.







More planing and squaring up after cutting the legs to their final length of 875mm / 34 3/8 inches.







Next - mortising the legs by hand - debating whether to use the drill press to make the initial holes, or to do it completely by hand with a chisel.

I'm not rushing partly because of work but also the Workbench series of videos is only one every two weeks and Episode 4 of 9 is this coming Friday.


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## El Barto (12 Dec 2017)

Nice! The mortises aren’t so bad, you get into the rhythm of it quite quickly and you soon see improvements to your technique etc. I actually found cutting the tenons to be trickier as they’re so damn big.


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## MikeG. (12 Dec 2017)

NickN":vb29obo7 said:


> ........the Workbench series of videos is only one every two weeks and Episode 4 of 9 is this coming Friday.



Huh? How come I was able to flick through the whole lot to 8 of 9 last week, to see what people were talking about? I only didn't see the 9th because it was dinner time.


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## NickN (12 Dec 2017)

El Barto":sji50xqm said:


> Nice! The mortises aren’t so bad, you get into the rhythm of it quite quickly and you soon see improvements to your technique etc. I actually found cutting the tenons to be trickier as they’re so damn big.



Encouraging to hear that - I'll probably make a start tomorrow!




MikeG.":sji50xqm said:


> NickN":sji50xqm said:
> 
> 
> > ........the Workbench series of videos is only one every two weeks and Episode 4 of 9 is this coming Friday.
> ...



I think what you're referring to is the Mk1 or original series of nine episodes titled 'how to build a workbench'. The new series is titled 'how to make a workbench' and is a revised design, on Youtube there's only two episodes so far, Woodworking Masterclass site has three episodes published.


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Dec 2017)

Good to know Mr. Sellers is the same as the rest of us and makes a better second bench.


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## Tasky (13 Dec 2017)

NickN":1detf0nm said:


> the new version is rounded 2 x 3 - quite why I don't know but can guess that it might be a combination of keeping weight reasonable, costs lower and possibly also with the new way of tongue and grooving the well board into the bench top the old version had too much depth.


Round-edged 3x2 is more commonly available to 'the average hobby woodworker' somewhere like B&Q, Homebase, etc. Paul even had a quick c amera-phone video up of him going into Homebase(?) and showing off some deals on wood they were stocking at the time, which would be ideal for his workbenches. 
However, this wood he has here was actually picked up from the Oxford Wood Recycling centre, which is why some boards have scrapes and holes through them. Half of it was off the racks/shelves and half of it he picked up in a clearance batch of 50 lengths for £1 each... lucky lad. I went up there and they seemed very short on stock. 

But yeah, Paul is basically opting for videos that better represent the average hobby woodworker, their available resources and their typical working space... based on surveys of his subscriber base. 

This is why he ditched the professional Master Woodworker appearance with all those tool cabinets and a choice of 50 planes, and now has a pseudo-garage space with a fake brick backdrop, and everything is geared around smaller workshops and minimal tools. He has a couple of blogs about it. 
Makes some sense, I suppose. 



MikeG.":1detf0nm said:


> Huh? How come I was able to flick through the whole lot to 8 of 9 last week, to see what people were talking about? I only didn't see the 9th because it was dinner time.


If it's being done in his back garden, that's Bench mkI. 
If it has a brick background, that's Bench mkII.


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## NickN (14 Dec 2017)

So, I thought it would be as well to get the rail boards sized and planed to final dimensions before cutting the mortises, in case of any unforeseen problems.

I've also disovered that this would be a good point for a modification to the design, but I'd welcome opinion too. The original design calls for 18mm thick tenons (on a 40m thick rail) into legs that are 95mm wide. 







Seems (and looks) to me that the tenon is a bit thin into that size of leg, so my proposed change is to make the tenon 24mm thick (on a 42mm thick rail) into legs that, in my case are 92mm wide. 

Or in other words, the tenons will be slightly over half of the rail thickness and about quarter of the leg thickness, seems like about the best compromise, and matches my chisel size.

Cutting the rails to length.


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## Phil Pascoe (14 Dec 2017)

If you are to make the tenon half the thickness of the rail you could save some work by making it with single shoulder.You just need to take a little more care when cramping up.


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## DBT85 (14 Dec 2017)

Thicker tenons seems fine to me.

Might be a bit more effort with a 24mm mortice instead of the 18mm.


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## Just4Fun (14 Dec 2017)

NickN":pfio33hy said:


> my proposed change is to make the tenon 24mm thick ...
> ... seems like about the best compromise, and matches my chisel size.


You have a 24mm chisel? That seems an odd size. What is the story behind that? What sort of chisel is it? (A mortise chisel or something else?)


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## DBT85 (15 Dec 2017)

Just4Fun":1mk6ugqb said:


> NickN":1mk6ugqb said:
> 
> 
> > my proposed change is to make the tenon 24mm thick ...
> ...


I also have a 24mm chisel. Quite a few metric sets include one that size, including the Aldi/Lidl ones.


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## Just4Fun (17 Dec 2017)

That's interesting. I have never seen a 24mm chisel. All the sets I have seen have a 25mm chisel, not 24mm. I did have a look in a store when I was browsing yesterday, to check if I was simply out of date, but the sets I saw had 25mm chisels, and even the individual tools on offer didn't include a 24mm.
I can't think of anything I have ever done that would make a 24mm better or worse than a 25mm, so I do wonder why some sets have changed in the UK and apparently not here. What am I missing?


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## NickN (17 Dec 2017)

I'm guessing that 24mm must be used at least in Germany too, as that's where my chisel set came from, but yes, it is a strange choice by the manufacturer, rather than 25mm. Be that as it may, it's what I have so am using it. :mrgreen: 

Made some further progress today, finished the planing and squaring of the rails and started on marking the legs for mortise cutting. I've decided to do the first leg completely by hand with chisel only, and see how long it takes.
A further modification to the tenons too - the original design uses full width lower rail tenons of around 6 inches / 150mm, which even with my substantially bulked up thickness of 24mm is still proportionally a bit wide, plus it has no edge shoulders. So I've revised my design to a 5 inch / 125mm width tenon on the bottom rail (rail is around 6 1/2 inches, so it leaves a 3/4 inch or 18mm shoulder each side) and a 4 inch tenon on the top rail plus a 1 inch haunch (which again is missing from the latest design video on Paul Sellers' website, but is shown as optional in the plans).


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## Tasky (18 Dec 2017)

Just4Fun":383kvjte said:


> so I do wonder why some sets have changed in the UK and apparently not here. What am I missing?


It's metric, innit.... 3mm = roughly 1/8", so 6mm, 12mm, 24mm. 
I notice Euro and Japanese chisel sets seem to do that, which then matches up to the milimetre measurements of various motice locks, hinges, swivel plates and so on, these days.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Dec 2017)

That makes no sense - 25mm is closer to an inch than 24mm is and 13mm is closer to half an inch than 12mm is.


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## NickN (18 Dec 2017)

But 19mm is almost exactly 3/4 inch and yet all sets have an 18mm chisel...

I can see the logic, kind of, as it would be rather odd to go by what is closest and have 6mm -- 13mm -- 19mm -- 25mm, the spacing is inconsistent, and a '1/2 inch' chisel would be more than double the '1/4 inch' chisel. 

So I guess Powerfix thought, well if a '1/2 inch' chisel is 12mm then let's double it...

I'm cursed to be old enough to have been influenced heavily by imperial but young enough to have been taught metric at school, and it does my head in, I end up using both most of the time as I cannot VISUALISE anything in metric, but I struggle to CALCULATE anything in imperial... Grrr.. (hammer)


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Dec 2017)

Yeah - I forgot the 18mm.

I can quite honestly say I've never thought about the actual dimensions of a chisel - I just pick up something the right size.


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## Tasky (18 Dec 2017)

phil.p":3na6stkz said:


> That makes no sense - 25mm is closer to an inch than 24mm is and 13mm is closer to half an inch than 12mm is.


But starting from roughly 1/8" at 3mm and going up in multiples of 3mm increments, like the Japanese chisels do: "The set of 10 includes 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 24, 30, 36 and 42mm chisels"

A single scale of numbers is easier and more straightforward for most people, than counting fractions of an inch and comparing halves, quarters, eighths, sixteenths and thirty-seconds. 
I actually have a little chart showing 1-8 eighths, with the milimetre on one side and the quarter inch equivalents on the other for my chisels.

I tend to visualise things in imperial, but measure in metric... and get really thrown out when wood shopping for an easy round number of 3x2" (because I measured in feet), but have to buy what they call 75x50mm, which is actually more like 62x37mm anyway... I'm easy to spot - I'm the one in the corner counting on my fingers!


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## Bodgers (18 Dec 2017)

NickN":3w2l426g said:


> I'm cursed to be old enough to have been influenced heavily by imperial but young enough to have been taught metric at school, and it does my head in, I end up using both most of the time as I cannot VISUALISE anything in metric, but I struggle to CALCULATE anything in imperial... Grrr.. (hammer)



I'm glad I've never had to deal with imperial measurements (with the exception of miles - which also needs to go so we can work out fuel consumption more easily). It's the fractional maths that's the killer.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Dec 2017)

I would find metric easier if people could resist using bl00dy centimetres. As Nick - I can't visualise or estimate in metric. If someone's six foot three I know they're quite tall, if the they're one metre eighty three or whatever I have no idea whether they are tall or short without actually converting it back to imperial. We should have gone metric lock stock and barrel on 17/2/71 (as Australia did when its currency went metric)......... or not bothered at all, apparently it was understood at the time that the USA would change, otherwise we probably wouldn't have.
^^^^ miles or even kilometers per litre are absolutely meaningless to me.


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## NickN (18 Dec 2017)

So, amidst all the chatting about chisels and metric stuff, I actually spent some time in the workshop working on my first ever mortises today... and have to say I'm quite happy with the result. First one took about an hour, second one about half that, and I'm in no rush anyway, for me the hobby is as much about simply relaxing and doing something practical as it is about actually finishing anything.

Now the hardened old-timers may chuckle, but I was ridiculously happy when the reverse side 'tunnelling' of that first mortise actually met up dead straight with the face side excavations! Such simple pleasures but for me it's what it's all about, particularly having got to middle age and never having had the chance even while at school to try woodworking.


First ever mortise well underway:








Breakthrough - it lines up!







Second mortise - already looks much tidier than the first:







And a finished first leg, with haunch housing also created:


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## thetyreman (19 Dec 2017)

well done! I noticed that with each tenon you cut it gets faster and easier, looks really good so far


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## DBT85 (19 Dec 2017)

Great start there Nick. Nice and neat. 

You planning to do the same for the others now that you've got it down?

Have you decided how to do the tenons? Will you try splitting?

With regard to imperial and metric. I'm one of the few in my age group (32) it seems that can deal with both. While we were only taught metric at school my dad would always talk in imperial at home. We're not helped by everyone still weighing babies in lbs (though they are actually weight in g and everyone converts them just so that they can tell their mum/aunt how much it weighs lol), using miles on the road and feet for height! I wonder what the govt will do when 100% of the people alive in the UK were only ever taught metric at school.


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## bugbear (19 Dec 2017)

Bodgers":3fwnci7n said:


> NickN":3fwnci7n said:
> 
> 
> > I'm cursed to be old enough to have been influenced heavily by imperial but young enough to have been taught metric at school, and it does my head in, I end up using both most of the time as I cannot VISUALISE anything in metric, but I struggle to CALCULATE anything in imperial... Grrr.. (hammer)
> ...


I recently acquired a vernier gauge with both imperial and metric scales. A normal engineer's vernier reads in 1/1000 of an inch, and is fine.

But the one I just got read is coarser - reading to 1/128".

Which ought to be easier, right?

Try this, if you love imperial, and deem fractions convenient:
http://www.stefanelli.eng.br/en/use-ver ... onal-inch/

BugBear


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## NickN (19 Dec 2017)

"In the topic vernier scale: simulator of reading and interpretation in fractional inch resolution 1/128″ we saw how each division of the main scale represents 1/16 (one sixteen avos) of inch. We saw also that this space is divided by the vernier by eight and that the value of the measure is obtained by the sum of the integer, the fraction of the main scale is the fraction of the nonius. However, the measurement value is obtained by adding the whole, the fraction of the main scale and the fraction of vernier."

:shock: 

That noise you thought was a sonic boom was my head exploding...


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## NickN (19 Dec 2017)

DBT85":6x8fx3g6 said:


> You planning to do the same for the others now that you've got it down?
> 
> Have you decided how to do the tenons? Will you try splitting?



Yes, I think I will do the remaining six by hand too, it's good practice anyway and quite enjoyable. 

The tendons, hmm, I think looking at the grain of the rails I could do, but will use a hand saw for the first one at least, as I don't have a bandsaw yet, and plus this is an ideal hand tools project anyway.


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## bugbear (19 Dec 2017)

NickN":xv7u4ede said:


> "In the topic vernier scale: simulator of reading and interpretation in fractional inch resolution 1/128″ we saw how each division of the main scale represents 1/16 (one sixteen avos) of inch. We saw also that this space is divided by the vernier by eight and that the value of the measure is obtained by the sum of the integer, the fraction of the main scale is the fraction of the nonius. However, the measurement value is obtained by adding the whole, the fraction of the main scale and the fraction of vernier."
> 
> :shock:
> 
> That noise you thought was a sonic boom was my head exploding...


But imperial is so much more natural:

Add these values to the whole of the main scale, (7/16 = 14/32 = 28/64 = 56/128 + 5/128 + 1 = 1 61/128)

What could be easier than that? (*)

BugBear

* rhetorical AND sarcastic


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## Tasky (19 Dec 2017)

DBT85":3njcs91t said:


> Great start there Nick. Nice and neat.


I agree... and am somewhat jealous!



DBT85":3njcs91t said:


> I'm one of the few in my age group (32) it seems that can deal with both.


I can, but it's a royal pain in the backside. 



DBT85":3njcs91t said:


> I wonder what the govt will do when 100% of the people alive in the UK were only ever taught metric at school.


Stop selling things with the imperial measures in smaller text beneath the metric ones. Not much else. 



NickN":3njcs91t said:


> That noise you thought was a sonic boom was my head exploding...


This bit is the easy part - He's taking one 16th of an inch and further splitting it into 8 - which is where 128 comes from. In other words, a quarter of a 32nd, which is the smallest bit on a standard tape measure or ruler. 
Younger folks should recognise these from using computers, with 4, 8, 16 and sometimes 32 gigabytes of RAM being quite common. 8, 16, 32, 64 and finally 128GB of data storage are common USB flash drive and SD card sizes, so even mobile phone users can probably cope up to this point. 



bugbear":3njcs91t said:


> * rhetorical AND sarcastic


Yeah, they said that about imperial money... I remember "quick ways with money" was anything but - All about adding pennies and calling them shillings, before subtracting another amount of pennies from those shillings, and then dropping the remaining shillings back down to pence for counting, before adding the remaining pennies back up to make shillings again... or something weird like that. Oh, and shillings often had a variety of sub-coins that represented sort-of fractions of a shilling, but ultimately were allowed to be considered as pennies because there are 12 pence to the shilling, but a penny is more than 1/12th of a shilling... or a farthing, or a thruppunce, or a happunce, or a Newpunce even...while a shilling was actually worth two shillings after 1967... 

Yeah, sure, easy as pie. 
I know what it means when someone is thrupenny-bitting round a corner on a motorcycle, but damned if I know what thruppence would've ever bought you. Ninepence would get you an intermission albatross, but you don't get wafers with it.


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## DBT85 (19 Dec 2017)

NickN":2gckvvee said:


> DBT85":2gckvvee said:
> 
> 
> > You planning to do the same for the others now that you've got it down?
> ...



Sounds like the next project is building Mattias Wandel's bandsaw 

Hoping to get cracking on mine in the new year as the last large obstacle has been removed from my would be workshop. Now I just need to have a tidy, a bit of paint and I can get going!


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## El Barto (19 Dec 2017)

NickN":12aiuc4x said:


> So, amidst all the chatting about chisels and metric stuff, I actually spent some time in the workshop working on my first ever mortises today... and have to say I'm quite happy with the result. First one took about an hour, second one about half that, and I'm in no rush anyway, for me the hobby is as much about simply relaxing and doing something practical as it is about actually finishing anything.
> 
> Now the hardened old-timers may chuckle, but I was ridiculously happy when the reverse side 'tunnelling' of that first mortise actually met up dead straight with the face side excavations! Such simple pleasures but for me it's what it's all about, particularly having got to middle age and never having had the chance even while at school to try woodworking.
> 
> ...



Bloody hell those mortises are brilliant. Mine were positively hideous by comparison. Good job.


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## DBT85 (20 Dec 2017)

All hail the Aldi chisels. lol


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Dec 2017)

Those are Lidl. lol.


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## DBT85 (20 Dec 2017)

Same difference!


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## NickN (20 Dec 2017)

Haha, I must admit I did reflect to myself afterwards "that wasn't bad for a two quid chisel"! 

Thanks for the encouraging comments though, all, nice to know that I don't seem to have made any major mess ups (yet). Second leg is in progress, hoping to get the four done before I am unable to move for over-eating on the 25th... :lol:


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Dec 2017)

DBT85":njp0fz84 said:


> Same difference!



Much the same design, but made by different companies iirc.


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## Bodgers (21 Dec 2017)

DBT85":3fs533b7 said:


> Same difference!


The Lidl chisels have hornbeam handles 

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


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## DBT85 (21 Dec 2017)

Bodgers":1t1ngfi4 said:


> DBT85":1t1ngfi4 said:
> 
> 
> > Same difference!
> ...


Weird, the 5 sets I have here bought a few months ago are all European Beech! Guessing it's whatever is available at the time of the production run.


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## NickN (21 Dec 2017)

Until this year the Lidl chisels did indeed have Hornbeam handles (Aldi use Ash I believe) - but they changed them this year to European Beech, and bumped the price up a 'lidl' too I think.

I've only got the one set, figure that should last me a good few years and by then wood will be a thing of the past in a Britain covered by shoebox houses...


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## NickN (27 Dec 2017)




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## El Barto (27 Dec 2017)

Very nice. Bet you’re pleased to have them out the way!


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## NickN (28 Dec 2017)

Very! Took a while but happy with results so far.


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## thetyreman (28 Dec 2017)

NickN":117yh8sx said:


> Very! Took a while but happy with results so far.



it's always well worth taking the time, the mortise holes look very clean


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## NickN (5 Jan 2018)

I've been hard at work in between work and family commitments getting on with this exciting (for me) project - really the completion of this will make working on my other projects so much more pleasant and straightforward, having the space and, importantly, the vice too.

Marking out for the tenons - a little more complicated than the 'cheeks only' approach used by Mr Sellers, but it's been extremely good practice for me at improving my sawing and chiselling skills.







Chiselling the small groove into the knife wall to make sawing that bit easier.







Sawing the shoulder with a 10" tenon saw.







Then sawing the edge cheek with a handsaw - I also did try chiselling this waste, and preferred that approach in the end.







Edge cheeks all tidy and ready for working on the face cheeks.







I tried sawing the face cheek waste away and again, actually prefer chiselling - this photo was my first attempt, since then I've improved significantly! I started well above the line to be sure the split wasn't going to go pear shaped.







Tidying up the face cheeks with a router plane. On the outer part I used a 4 1/2 smoothing plane, worked great.







Tenon completed, ready for rounding over the ends tomorrow.


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## DBT85 (6 Jan 2018)

Some great looking work again!

Interesting to see you preferred splitting instead of sawing the cheeks.

The big question of course is, did it fit?


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## NickN (6 Jan 2018)

DBT85":mjw72jk2 said:


> The big question of course is, did it fit?



Not straight off the saw or chisel, but happy to say that fairly minimal paring was needed to get a nice fit - so the marking out mut have been fairly close!

Made the four roundovers on the four lower rail tenons today - the upper rail tenons just get cut flush to the leg so as to accommodate the apron.

Planing the long edge rounded using the trusty 4 1/2:







Chiselling the short edge roundover using four chops, followed by a rasp then a file to get the curve just right:







After sanding to remove any file marks and the marking lines:


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## gaz44uk (12 Jan 2018)

Starting my own Bench in the next few weeks the photos and information is greatly welcome. Cheers


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## Tasky (13 Jan 2018)

Apron time for this fortnight!!


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## NickN (13 Jan 2018)

Yes, hopefully without dropping my chisel on the floor!


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## thetyreman (14 Jan 2018)

when you do the apron, I'd highly recommend doing that part as fast as you can, just incase it twists or moves, which is what happened to me, it twisted so badly that I just had to start again and make a new apron, which turned out fine in the end, the glue up was pretty stressful though, make sure everything's well rehearsed first and your power drill is fully charged (don't ask me how I know) or you'll be cursing like hell.


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## Tasky (15 Jan 2018)

NickN":aim4qk7l said:


> Yes, hopefully without dropping my chisel on the floor!


St Paul has been doing things like that a lot, recently. 
I'm almost wondering if he's doing it on purpose to appear more amateur-like, as intended by things like the change of scenery to the faux-garage and building a smaller bench with "just the array of tools our average viewer typically has access to"...?


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## DBT85 (15 Jan 2018)

Looked like it just went while he was routing. I suppose he's quite used to plonking his tools down on the benchtop and them not moving as he's got a solid foundation.

Hoping next week to get some paint up in my workshop and get my wood to start my bench too. Already given myself a a little list of projects to get on with once complete.


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## Tasky (15 Jan 2018)

DBT85":2oog48tb said:


> I suppose he's quite used to plonking his tools down on the benchtop and them not moving as he's got a solid foundation.


Yup, clearly he's used to having the tool well and forgot he's not built that part yet...
I just find it interesting that he'd actually leave it in the video and not cunningly edit it out.


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## John15 (15 Jan 2018)

Tasky":3vxrzcgs said:


> NickN":3vxrzcgs said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, hopefully without dropping my chisel on the floor!
> ...



I haven't noticed PS dropping things a lot on the floor recently.

John


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## NickN (15 Jan 2018)

Episode 4 (or was it 3, I forget?) of the new workbench series was hilarious, first his freshly sawn legs fell over one by one, then a sash clamp fell off, followed by another one a few minutes later - it did cross my mind (especially with the latest chisel fall) like Tasky suggested that it may be an attempt to show easily made errors - but I think it just happened (and perhaps the decision not to edit it out was done with illustrating how quickly things can go wrong in mind).

I am hoping to get back into the workbench shortly, I've been busy making a castor trolley for the bandsaw but that got finished today, just remains to assemble and test the saw and then I can crack on with the bench. Aprons were done a few days ago, I hope that my experience doesn't echo that of thetyreman!


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## Tasky (15 Jan 2018)

NickN":2p6oaghb said:


> like Tasky suggested that it may be an attempt to show easily made errors - but I think it just happened (and perhaps the decision not to edit it out was done with illustrating how quickly things can go wrong in mind).


I'd think it was left in on purpose to show mistakes, but then he had issues with a chisel ferrule and showed how to correct it. 
He barely mentioned these other ones. 

Not sure if he's putting on the 'absent-minded old man' thing, or if it's genuine.


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## DBT85 (16 Jan 2018)

I honestly think its just genuine oddities. He's not making a new bench at an old bench, he's making it like most people will have to make it, on an uneven floor with saw horses an stuff. Stuff is always going to fall over, slide off, roll off etc. Happens all the time. Usually while you're holding something heavy and you need the thing that just rolled off and went slightly out of reach of your toes lol.

I like that they've left it in. You can watch it as someone who's not done this stuff and know that someone with experience but doing it the same way you have to do it also dings things, drops things, etc.


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## nabs (16 Jan 2018)

that makes perfect sense - when you are learning it is often just as relavent to see what happens when things don't go exactly to plan as seeing it done perfectly.


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## bugbear (16 Jan 2018)

nabs":30k6ocop said:


> that makes perfect sense - when you are learning it is often just as relavent to see what happens when things don't go exactly to plan as seeing it done perfectly.


Yes - it's one of the reasons teaching is a particular skill. If you're simply "d*mn good", and you demonstrate, the beginner may not learn much, other than how good you are.

BugBear


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## DBT85 (17 Jan 2018)

Nick, there's a thread in General about Davies Timber, someone asking for experience to build up a guide.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Jan 2018)

I did a welding course a long while ago - the tutor (who was a workshop manager at one of the local firms and a brilliant welder) let us go about things as we saw fit - then took everything apart and explained why what we had done was wrong then how not to do it again. It seemed good to me.


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## DBT85 (2 Feb 2018)

Finally getting around to getting my wood ordered for my own bench. Need to make some quick and easy saw horses too so will just go with some of Mattias' ones for the time being, made form CLS as its cheap and more than adequate.

Like yourself I've had to wiggle with Mr Sellers metric measurements as they just don;t match timber available and it seems daft to cut things down where there is no need. 

In the end I've gone for 
4x 50x75x3.6m for the top (will use all 8 lengths from these, making the top 45mm wider)
1x 25x150x3.6m for the wellboard (a smidge thinner than spec but didn't fancy going thicker)
2x 50x150x3.6m for the aprons. (Won't be planing these down to 40mm like you did!)
1x 50x150x3.6m for the rails
1x 75x100x4.2m for the legs
1x 50x100x2.4 for the bearers

With that lot, some CLS for 2 sawhorses and a 18mm sheet of Elliotis pine ply, plus delivery it came to £240. £30 for delivery seemed a bit steep as Avon Timber will do it for nowt and they have to come over from Coventry, but with me only just getting my new wheels and it costing at least a tenner in fuel to get to Davies, plus my time on top I figured sod it, Also transporting a sheet of ply in the car would have been fun  

Seems like so long ago I wanted to start this!


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## Bodgers (2 Feb 2018)

DBT85":ydikrhgo said:


> Finally getting around to getting my wood ordered for my own bench. Need to make some quick and easy saw horses too so will just go with some of Mattias' ones for the time being, made form CLS as its cheap and more than adequate.
> 
> Like yourself I've had to wiggle with Mr Sellers metric measurements as they just don;t match timber available and it seems daft to cut things down where there is no need.
> 
> ...


Wow. I paid less than that for the sawn beech for my bench! There is probably slightly less volume than what you have though. 

Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


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## DBT85 (2 Feb 2018)

Bodgers":2y2xwd62 said:


> Wow. I paid less than that for the sawn beech for my bench! There is probably slightly less volume than what you have though.
> 
> Sent from my MI 3W using Tapatalk


To be fair, about £45 is timber for other stuff and £36 was delivery. So £159 for a load of PAR redwood for the bench and there will be a little left.


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## NickN (4 Feb 2018)

DBT85":16efpjpf said:


> Finally getting around to getting my wood ordered for my own bench.
> 
> Like yourself I've had to wiggle with Mr Sellers metric measurements as they just don't match timber available and it seems daft to cut things down where there is no need.
> 
> Seems like so long ago I wanted to start this!



Excellent news! If I'd known I would be recently getting a planer-thicknesser before I started this project I would have made my order a little bit different, but not to worry, where I have had to reduce thickness it's been very good hand planing practice!
Davies Timber prices seem to be a lot better than Avon Timber too, certainly for sheet goods anyway, so it makes up for the delivery price on a large order.


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## NickN (4 Feb 2018)

After what seems like ages, an update on my progress, which hasn't been as speedy as I'd have liked, but hey ho, such is life.

First off I assembled and glued the legs together:












Then cut, planed and attached the bearers to the top:







A modification to the plans next, rather than just the single apron forming the back 'wall' of the wellboard and bench, I thought it might be handy to have just a little bit of extra width there for extra rigidity and strength, so I glued a length of timber to the inside face of the apron, the same depth/height as the worktop is, so that the legs will sit under the extra piece. I will still be making a housing into the apron as well for the leg.







And then glued the wellboard pieces together, successfully.







Next is to cut the wedges and then the leg housings in the apron back faces.


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## DBT85 (4 Feb 2018)

NickN":hv2sqrxh said:


> Excellent news! If I'd known I would be recently getting a planer-thicknesser before I started this project I would have made my order a little bit different, but not to worry, where I have had to reduce thickness it's been very good hand planing practice!
> Davies Timber prices seem to be a lot better than Avon Timber too, certainly for sheet goods anyway, so it makes up for the delivery price on a large order.



Great to see more progress being made! Like the idea of adding the extra bit to the back apron too. 

Out of interest, why did you thickness your aprons down from 45 to 40mm?


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## NickN (4 Feb 2018)

I think the 40mm thickness for the aprons was one of those things that just happened - they were initially 44mm as collected from the timber merchants, and one length had a minor bow in its length, which by the time I'd straightened it all out with planing brought it down to 40mm - so I did the other one to match. More luck than judgement that it matched the 'Sellers Spec' really.


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## DBT85 (4 Feb 2018)

Ahh ok. I thought you'd just decided to do it to match the spec and I was sitting here last night saying to myself "buy why, just leave it 5mm thicker each side" lol.

Think my timber arrives tomorrow so I've already got my draft thread made up.

Seriously need to get a quick sharpening plate made up though as I know for a fact my #4 had a couple of small dinks in, and I need to sort my chisels too. So much to do.


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## MattRoberts (4 Feb 2018)

Coming along really nicely Nick. I know what you mean about finding the time to work on it - it's tricky, but satisfying when you do and make good progress


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## NickN (7 Feb 2018)

The bench is really coming along now, thanks to having a bit more time this week to get things done (and it being far too cold to do much outdoor work too!).

I made the wedges which will sit next to the top of each leg in a recess cut in the back of the apron:







Then started chiselling the recess waste away, working to a knife wall initially:







Once the rough chiselling was completed it was time to use the router plane to get that nice level surface for the recess:







After all that, a completed recess housing - actually came out a LOT better than I was expecting - and what's more, the leg and wedge fitted exactly, first time, with no trimming needed at all. Still can't quite believe it, in fact...







And then, a magic moment after all these weeks, the first assembly of the skeleton of the bench to make sure everything fitted correctly and so that I can now bolt the aprons through the legs:






The small cut out at the underside of each rail is to allow for the nut to fit onto the bolt which will protrude at this point. The rails were effectively a little too deep - to clear the bottom of the rail I'd have been putting the bolt through within only 10mm of the bottom edge of the apron. No worries though, now it will work fine.


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## DBT85 (7 Feb 2018)

Looking fantastic Nick! Won't be long and you'll be doing your next one! Haha

At this rate I might glue my top on Friday. Finally.


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## NickN (8 Feb 2018)

Another productive afternoon in the shed - got the aprons bolted through the legs and the bench top edge grooved and glued to the front apron.

First use ever of this Stanley 13-050 - not one cutter had ever seen use it appears. Seems like the sort of item someone woodworking as a hobby might be given as a present by a well-meaning relative, but never use as they have more 'modern' methods. Ideal for me though, and I have to say that it worked really well.







Ploughing the 6mm wide by 10mm groove in the bench top edge. I fitted a Sapele strip to the metal fence, partly to make it easier to keep square to the top, and partly to avoid marking the wood.







Gluing the bench top piece to the front (furthest away in the photo) apron - you can see the completed groove too.







Next up is to groove the rear of the rear apron, then rebate the wellboard to fit both grooves.


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## custard (8 Feb 2018)

> Next up is to groove the rear of the rear apron, then rebate the wellboard to fit both grooves.



Looks superb. 

Well done to you, and well done to Mr Sellers for popularising such a sensible, practical design. A good bench is pretty essential, and Paul Sellers must be credited with inspiring a lot of people to actually get stuck in and build one. 

=D>


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## DBT85 (8 Feb 2018)

More excellent work. Its great how fast it can come together.

I'm nearly there, honest!


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## thetyreman (9 Feb 2018)

blimey! that's really coming together, looks really good, the wedges are a big improvement on the version I made lol I don't fancy making another one though, it was a marathon, seriously though well done =D>


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## El Barto (9 Feb 2018)

Looks awesome, you must be chuffed. Well done.


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## NickN (9 Feb 2018)

Thanks for the comments guys, it's a huge relief to know that I seem to be doing ok with it.

Custard, you are quite right in that Mr Sellers must have inspired a huge number of people to have a try at hand woodworking (I think the second hand prices of tools partly bear testament to that) and it was my watching of his first workbench build in his garden that made me decide to enter the hobby in the first place.

No doubt a lot of people give up too, but perhaps it's because they expect instant results, or instant perfection without any practice, or just don't have a natural inclination for it. I'm not certain that I have the latter but I do have plenty of patience and a very low expectation so anything I make that comes out ok is a winner for me.

Mind you, my patience was tested today, wrestling with a pesky Woden 78 filister plane which kept resetting its depth of cut every couple of strokes, no matter how tight the lever cap screw. In the end I went back to my plough plane to do half the rebate, and the remaining half I'll just plane away with my 4 1/2 down to the ploughed level.


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## AndyT (9 Feb 2018)

A good quick fix for a plane where the iron shifts too easily is to rub some rosin on the back of the iron and front of the frog. It's the stuff violinists use on their bows - only a pound or so from any music shop.


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## NickN (9 Feb 2018)

Never thought of that, genius idea and must definitely stand a chance of improving things. Thanks Andy - I'll dig out my other half's violin and see if there's any rosin lurking in there!  

P.S Looking at common issues with rebate planes it seems a sloping top surface is one, but bizzarely it's usually sloping down towards the outside - with my attempt it was sloping towards the inside. I think probably connected with the constant iron/cap movement.


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## DBT85 (9 Feb 2018)

NickN":2nh1aenb said:


> Custard, you are quite right in that Mr Sellers must have inspired a huge number of people to have a try at hand woodworking (I think the second hand prices of tools partly bear testament to that) and it was my watching of his first workbench build in his garden that made me decide to enter the hobby in the first place.
> 
> No doubt a lot of people give up too, but perhaps it's because they expect instant results, or instant perfection without any practice, or just don't have a natural inclination for it. I'm not certain that I have the latter but I do have plenty of patience and a very low expectation so anything I make that comes out ok is a winner for me.


I think most hobbies have quite a high attrition rate. People don't know what they really like until they try it and really like it. I've watched just about every Sellers video on YouTube and did so in about 8 weeks, then loads more on the WWMC site and lots of other peoples on YouTube.

Right now I want to do this, and I reckon its probably going to stick as I already have plans for things to do and generally falls right in my wheelhouse given my other skillsets. Over the years I've tried anything that seemed interesting to me at the time and many have fallen by the wayside for one reason or another.

Sellers gets some flak online from some people who seem a bit further established in woodworking for one reason or another and I'm not quite sure why. His aim, he claims, is to try and share what he learned as a boy and has learned ever since. Many things that a lot of people wouldn't think of doing because surely it's too difficult. Then he shows you in 25 minutes just how not difficult it really can be. He gives advice on restoring old cheap (well, they used to be) tools and doesn't claim or pretend that you need a £150 plane and a whole sleuth of expensive power tools to get a job done. He even gives you cheapo ways of making your own tools if you really can't get a router or whatever. What a git.


Needless to say I'm glad of his work. His videos are clear, well produced, full of detail and ultimately useful. I can hear him properly, I can see what he is doing without squinting, the video isn't recorded on a potato and more importantly I'M LEARNING. 

Not to say that his way is THE way, or that he doesn't (in his blog) ramble on at times to make you wonder just what it was he smoked at lunchtime.

Watching him do it has made me feel I can do it too, and apart from the £1.20 I spent for 1 month of access to WWMC, I've given him no money at all. No ad referral money for tools, no other subscriptions or fees, no patreon this or go fund me that.


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## nabs (10 Feb 2018)

lovely work Nick - I am sure it will encourage others to have a go also. 

Even though a bench seems like quite an intimidating project, I think threads like this help show that a good (simple) design like the one you are using is within the reach of anyone with a few basic tools and a bit of patience. 

Having said that, you are setting a high bar in terms of the quality of your work! The good news for others following along that it is still possible to get a useable bench even if they don't quite achieve the very high standards you are reaching and it is this that makes a bench a good starter project, I think.

Paul Sellers was the first person I ever saw make something with hand-tools too - top fella!


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## NickN (10 Feb 2018)

DBT85":21x70ada said:


> Not to say that his way is THE way, or that he doesn't (in his blog) ramble on at times to make you wonder just what it was he smoked at lunchtime.



:lol: :lol: 



nabs":21x70ada said:


> Even though a bench seems like quite an intimidating project, I think threads like this help show that a good (simple) design like the one you are using is within the reach of anyone with a few basic tools and a bit of patience.



Couldn't agree more - I started this project as my first ever foray into woodworking 'properly' and, well, I'm more than pleased with how it's gone. Particularly challenging is the fact that you have to build a bench without a bench to use.

Last night I finished off the wellboard rebate. While Andy's suggestion to fix the resetting iron depth using rosin was a good one, it still didn't really solve the issue - and it appears that it's caused because it was actually a WS (not Woden) 78 which has a brass(?) lever cap that bends when the screw is tightened.








So I dug out my backup plan, a Stanley 78, and that worked brilliantly. Got nice even shavings all the way along every time, and only very minor resetting after maybe every ten strokes or so, a huge improvement.







Then today I worked on the vice cutout in the apron using a jigsaw - to fit a Record 53A, so it's a biggie. I made the cutout considerably larger than really needed to make fitting much easier, and was able to trial fit it on my own with the bench right way up.


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## DBT85 (10 Feb 2018)

Neatest vice hole ever? Lol.

And using a machine! lol





More excellent work! I can only hope my bench comes out half this neat.

Did you restore the 53A yourself or did arrive already complete?


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## Tasky (12 Feb 2018)

DBT85":247soes0 said:


> Sellers gets some flak online from some people who seem a bit further established in woodworking for one reason or another and I'm not quite sure why.


Anyone who has time to teach cannot possibly be a full-time professional woodworker with fifty years experience of non-stop slaving away at the bench, so is not qualified to teach you a damn thing.... or summat like that. 
I dunno. 
Depends what you mean by established. 



DBT85":247soes0 said:


> Not to say that his way is THE way


Now that he _does_ get flak over.... Sellers himself has explained that he generally teaches just one way of doing things so his teaching is consistent, whereas he himself uses many different techniques and approaches (including using mortise chisels) and you do sometimes see this in videos where that technique is not the primary focus.


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## DBT85 (12 Feb 2018)

Tasky":1qgqyofg said:


> Now that he _does_ get flak over.... Sellers himself has explained that he generally teaches just one way of doing things so his teaching is consistent, whereas he himself uses many different techniques and approaches (including using mortise chisels) and you do sometimes see this in videos where that technique is not the primary focus.



Indeed. I think the thing to bear in mind is that if you really know what you are doing then Sellers isn't really aiming his content at you. Invariably there at many ways of doing things. He generally demonstrates either a) what works for him, b) what's cheap or c) what he's found helps people the most from his classes. 

I don't think I've ever heard him say that his way is the only way or even probably the best way. 

With sharpening being just one example, he's shown how to do chisels and planes on sandpaper or wet/dry, explained why long term it's not economical and then showed what he does now. 3 diamond plates and his strop with cheap green silverline compound! There are a hundred different ways of doing it, but I've little doubt many just do what he does. If it works for him why challenge it until I'm ready?


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## Tasky (12 Feb 2018)

DBT85":2us9ygft said:


> I don't think I've ever heard him say that his way is the only way or even probably the best way.


As you say, just the opposite. 
He does sometimes show different ways, but always specifies that "this is just how I do it, you may wish to do this or try that..."

As is, he's got two different workbench builds going on and many people on the WWMC gallery have clearly adapted 'his' designs to make things the way they want, which is what Sellers was probably aiming at.


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## DBT85 (12 Feb 2018)

Tasky":9ez5ywkz said:


> DBT85":9ez5ywkz said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think I've ever heard him say that his way is the only way or even probably the best way.
> ...



Absolutely. Teach a man to fish etc etc. 

Both Nick and I have made some minor adjustments to our benches. 

Now if I can ever get around to even starting it, that'll be a different matter. Was going to try and advance today but instead ended up helping do 90 minutes firewood sawing with what much be a 24" tractor powered table saw. And then a nice hours deforestation in our hedge line. Ache all over. Lol. 

Yay for farm life!


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## NickN (12 Feb 2018)

DBT85":2x9lxnlm said:


> And using a machine! lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hah, yes I don't often use power tools but when I do... it's because any other way would just be either a) much longer or b) much messier.

The 53A is as I bought it from Ebay a year ago or so, a nice example and wasn't expensive either.

Been getting on with vice jaws and planing the bench top today, photos to follow soon - but am off to work now!

Got to get it done asap as once Spring hits I will have very little time to do anything in the workshop, my tractor needs some work and then there's lots of topping, spraying, weeding and maintenance to do outside.


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## Tasky (13 Feb 2018)

NickN":2y0mov0p said:


> Hah, yes I don't often use power tools but when I do...


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## NickN (16 Feb 2018)

Lol Tasky :lol: 

Well almost completed the bench, just need to apply a finish to the legs and rails - anyone any suggestions on what might work/look best for this? I've put one coat of Ronseal Antique Oil on the benchtop and aprons, another coat or two to go - this doesn't darken it much but protects and seals it quite well.

Forgot to show the completed wellboard end in my previous post:







Vice installed and ready for action:







General view of vice side and far side of bench as it stands now:


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

Wow. Great job Nick! Looking fantastic.

Did you surprise yourself by how well it all fit together and stuff? Really does look like you did a great job all over.

I'm thinking of just going with BLO on mine but I've got none right now so I'm flexible. It's what David Wright from Wood by Wright on YouTube seems happy with, though his was a mostly white oak bench.

I think we have to wait a week to see what Sellers will use!

I'm currently trying to decide whether to fit both the 52 1/2s I have, or just fit the better one, restore the other and then swap and repeat. First world problems eh?


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Feb 2018)

Yet another post disappeared - it's getting tedious. You'll be lucky if those tongues don't crack off.


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## NickN (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":2qzprwqx said:


> Did you surprise yourself by how well it all fit together and stuff? Really does look like you did a great job all over.
> 
> I'm thinking of just going with BLO on mine but I've got none right now so I'm flexible. It's what David Wright from Wood by Wright on YouTube seems happy with, though his was a mostly white oak bench.
> 
> ...



Yes, I did surprise myself, a LOT, actually, I thought it was going to be a complete nightmare disaster zone like my previous attempts at bodging have been, and somehow for the first time this all went together really well, even the trickiest bit, the sliding wellboard. I believe Mr Sellers uses an outdoor furniture oil of some sort but some of his benches have really darkened so perhaps he stains too - well, I don't mind mine staying light coloured, it's there to do a job ultimately.

I don't know that I'd want to fit two 52 1/2 vices to the bench, increases the footprint substantially if one on each side, and would get in the way if one each end of the same side, and the design doesn't end itself to that as a tail vice. I'd stick your working one on and leave it at that, restore the other and keep it for your next bench  



phil.p":2qzprwqx said:


> Yet another post disappeared - it's getting tedious. You'll be lucky if those tongues don't crack off.



I'm hoping that the fact Mr Sellers uses ten of these benches in his classroom (and one as his own) where they get roundly abused quite frequently, plus the fact that the tongue is 66 inches long (I say :shock: ) will mean it should work ok. Although if I put my Record 8 plane on the wellboard it'll probably test that theory well... :lol:


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## Tasky (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":1v2rl6o2 said:


> David Wright from Wood by Wright


James Wright. :wink: 



DBT85":1v2rl6o2 said:


> I think we have to wait a week to see what Sellers will use!


£100 in Monopoly Money says it's Shellac.... :lol:


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

Tasky":2qbspu8o said:


> DBT85":2qbspu8o said:
> 
> 
> > David Wright from Wood by Wright
> ...



Ah balls, so it is. You'd think I'd remember after watching about 4 hours in the last 2 days huh? Hey yall! Lol

That's a long time with his 1" hake!


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## NickN (16 Feb 2018)

Hmm, I've got a tin of Button Polish lurking somewhere, I might give that a go on the lower parts of the bench, what's the worst that could happen...?


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

NickN":10h3mwsv said:


> Hmm, I've got a tin of Button Polish lurking somewhere, I might give that a go on the lower parts of the bench, what's the worst that could happen...?


You've admitted to polishing buttons, I think we're already there


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## NickN (16 Feb 2018)

Shortly after the 66 inch tongue revelation. This is going downhill fast. (hammer) :mrgreen:


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

Out of interest, why _did_ you cut the tongue so thin?



NickN":26drw4nb said:


> Yes, I did surprise myself, a LOT, actually, I thought it was going to be a complete nightmare disaster zone like my previous attempts at bodging have been, and somehow for the first time this all went together really well, even the trickiest bit, the sliding wellboard. I believe Mr Sellers uses an outdoor furniture oil of some sort but some of his benches have really darkened so perhaps he stains too - well, I don't mind mine staying light coloured, it's there to do a job ultimately.
> 
> I don't know that I'd want to fit two 52 1/2 vices to the bench, increases the footprint substantially if one on each side, and would get in the way if one each end of the same side, and the design doesn't end itself to that as a tail vice. I'd stick your working one on and leave it at that, restore the other and keep it for your next bench



You really did a great job! It's amazing how the right techniques and a little patience can make you do things you never thought of before. I recall watching his very first few youtube videos when I found them 6 months ago or so. He looked like a wizard. Cutting to lines. Things fitting. Sharp tools! And now you're doing it too (hammer) 

BurnTheWitchAgain.gif

I'll have a think. I'm sure I've seen him do something about fitting one of these to the tail, I seem to recall him mentioning having to cut one of your braces short toallow the screw through so I must have seen a blog post or something. As to a second bench. Tish and guffaw! I've not even started my first yet!



Also just found this, some useful bits in there that you might like for your new bench. It's Sellers talking about finishing his off from 2015. little clips and hanging things and stuff to make it more ergonomic.
https://paulsellers.com/2015/01/closing ... -fitments/


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## Tasky (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":17ceiudz said:


> I seem to recall him mentioning having to cut one of your braces short toallow the screw through so I must have seen a blog post or something.


I believe the tail-end crosspiece is mortised in a few inches lower than the other...?



DBT85":17ceiudz said:


> You've admitted to polishing buttons, I think we're already there


's wrong with that?
Most military folk have to do it...


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

Tasky":3vfu8pvk said:


> I seem to recall him mentioning having to cut one of your braces short toallow the screw through so I must have seen a blog post or something.


I believe the tail-end crosspiece is mortised in a few inches lower than the other...?[/quote]

No idea at all. I'll find it. Got distracted going through his blog posts. Found some less philosophical writings lol.



Tasky":3vfu8pvk said:


> 's wrong with that?
> Most military folk have to do it...


Nothing, nothing at all. Please don't kill me.

It's different if it's for uniforms. I imagined Nick sitting there in his cardie making his buttons shine with his 66" tongue.


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## Tasky (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":27jict89 said:


> Nothing, nothing at all. Please don't kill me.


I said most..... ours were black, for a very good reason!!


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

Tasky":2sfhz7l7 said:


> DBT85":2sfhz7l7 said:
> 
> 
> > Nothing, nothing at all. Please don't kill me.
> ...



lol. I suppose we should all be thankful you guys aren't off fighting in bright red uniform any more.


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## MattRoberts (16 Feb 2018)

Looking fantastic Nick, nice one! I'm going to use clear danish oil on mine in the hope that it doesn't yellow as much as BLO, but I suspect it will


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## Tasky (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":3cdf21f8 said:


> lol. I suppose we should all be thankful you guys aren't off fighting in bright red uniform any more.


Actually you can thank our antecedent regiments for that little gem!


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## NickN (16 Feb 2018)

DBT85":26awzqmi said:


> Out of interest, why _did_ you cut the tongue so thin?



Just following orders, guv. Well, the plans called for a 6mm wide tongue, so that's what I did too (on a deeper wellboard, so that's possibly why it gives the impression of being thinner). Also the wellboard is of course fully supported by the bearers on the legs at both ends and screwed into from underneath them, so actually the tongues are not doing much more than locating the board in position.










MattRoberts":26awzqmi said:


> Looking fantastic Nick, nice one! I'm going to use clear danish oil on mine in the hope that it doesn't yellow as much as BLO, but I suspect it will



Thanks, and yes I'm going to stay away from BLO - the antique oil I used is, I think, a mix of tung oil, danish oil and other things, maybe some linseed too of course.


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## DBT85 (16 Feb 2018)

NickN":189mkszi said:


> DBT85":189mkszi said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest, why _did_ you cut the tongue so thin?
> ...


Ahh ok. 

I'd have gone for 10mm and then cocked up the mating cut on the apron/top because I'd changed spec on the fly lol.


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## thetyreman (16 Feb 2018)

I put shellac on mine as just a sealer coat, then a few layers of water based clear gloss varnish, works for me  If I was using an oil then it'd be tung oil all the way, osmo as well would be a good choice.


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## DBT85 (24 Feb 2018)

Tasky":3eojfev4 said:


> £100 in Monopoly Money says it's Shellac.... :lol:


You owe me a hotel in the old Kent road. 

No shellac!


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## Tasky (26 Feb 2018)

DBT85":2lt2o1ia said:


> Tasky":2lt2o1ia said:
> 
> 
> > £100 in Monopoly Money says it's Shellac.... :lol:
> ...



*Places hotel on the OKR space*... =D>


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## NickN (26 Feb 2018)

Oi! Who started the game of Monopoly without me then? (hammer) :lol: 

Well - today I finally got the bench what I'd call 'finished' - although I may add a drawer at some point in the future.

Although Mr Sellers recommended the use of Garden Furniture Oil, I decided to go old school on this one and use Shellac (Button Polish mix). I made an initial coat, rubbed it all down with 600 grit sandpaper and then applied a further coat, both coats by brush application.







I also made a small shelf (also from pine) which sits along the side of the rear apron, with various size holes cut through using my Record Power Forstner bit set, at intervals to accommodate my marking gauges, plus a small space to hold the oil cloth can and some glueing sticks etc. I stuck felt down each side of the holes so as to avoid rattling and movement when using the bench, and leather for the cans to sit on.

Anyway, here's the final result:


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## Tasky (26 Feb 2018)

NickN":qokyk45k said:


> I decided to go old school on this one and use Shellac


Ooh, ooh, I own the Shellac one.... oh, and I have BLO and Danish oil too, so that's rent on all three. No sheds yet, let alone outright workshops, so just the sites. 
That'll be £350 rent, please!! 

You wanted to play Monopoly, right? (hammer)


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## DBT85 (26 Feb 2018)

Ahh nice finished bench there! 

The shelf looks liek it was always meant to be there too. How did you fit it to the apron?

Another addition I saw from Sellers blog was an insert to drop into the well, about 30cm wide and flush with the top and filled with dogholes for thems that want them. Such is Sellers desire to quash the idea of needing them and putting holes in your bench haha.

I also found the post he'd made about attaching a tail vice, something he's always done apparently even though he rarely uses them. For these benches it seems you just need to lower the top rail on the legs at that end and you've freed up room for the bars. I'll have a look as I do mine as with my 8ft table to fix, it might be useful.


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## AndyT (26 Feb 2018)

That really does look the business, but I feel I should point out the bad news - someone has filled up the all-important cup of tea spot with a load of old pencils!


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## Bm101 (26 Feb 2018)

NickN":2lhxqx2u said:


> Anyway, here's the final result:
> ]


Pleased to see this come to a good result Nick. Been reading and following quietly. Looks fantastic.Well done mate.


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## NickN (27 Feb 2018)

Tasky":l0wjuelw said:


> NickN":l0wjuelw said:
> 
> 
> > I decided to go old school on this one and use Shellac
> ...



Well, I asked for that didn't I? :lol: Still, my Teak Oil is safe for now, thankfully.




DBT85":l0wjuelw said:


> The shelf looks liek it was always meant to be there too. How did you fit it to the apron?



A cunningly hidden length of 1" by 1", glued and screwed to the underside of the shelf and screwed into the apron.




DBT85":l0wjuelw said:


> Another addition I saw from Sellers blog was an insert to drop into the well, about 30cm wide and flush with the top and filled with dogholes for thems that want them. Such is Sellers desire to quash the idea of needing them and putting holes in your bench haha.
> I also found the post he'd made about attaching a tail vice, something he's always done apparently even though he rarely uses them. For these benches it seems you just need to lower the top rail on the legs at that end and you've freed up room for the bars. I'll have a look as I do mine as with my 8ft table to fix, it might be useful.



That's a decent idea actually, a well doghole insert - but I'm going to go down the road of 'do things as I need them' - so if I find a need to stick some holes in the benchtop at some point, I'll do it then. Rather than the other approach of turning a bench into a colander before even making a first dent on it.

Interestingly, at the two classes I went to, none of the benches in the work area, including his own one, had tail vices - so I wonder whether he has a secret naughty bench at home for doing all the stuff that would be blasphemy if made public... :shock:  




AndyT":l0wjuelw said:


> That really does look the business, but I feel I should point out the bad news - someone has filled up the all-important cup of tea spot with a load of old pencils!



(hammer) What a mistake to make! I might have to make a slide-out tea shelf on the other side... I don't even have a kettle in the workshop yet but am very lucky with a lovely wife who regularly pops in with a fresh mug of "I'll start work in just another five minutes" nectar.




Bm101":l0wjuelw said:


> Pleased to see this come to a good result Nick. Been reading and following quietly. Looks fantastic.Well done mate.



Thanks very much - I'm 100% chuffed with the result of this project, something that a couple of years ago I'd have dismissed as impossible.


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## Tasky (27 Feb 2018)

NickN":2jnoj2it said:


> Interestingly, at the two classes I went to, none of the benches in the work area, including his own one, had tail vices - so I wonder whether he has a secret naughty bench at home for doing all the stuff that would be blasphemy if made public... :shock:


Those may have been the smaller knock-down student benches, or something. 
The big grey-painted one he uses in most of his videos has a tail vise. There's a blog post about dog-less fixing, where he clamps things using sash clamps in the face vise, but also shows a very long piece where the back end is held in a second clamp that the tail vise then holds.


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## DBT85 (27 Feb 2018)

Tasky":12vka9a7 said:


> NickN":12vka9a7 said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly, at the two classes I went to, none of the benches in the work area, including his own one, had tail vices - so I wonder whether he has a secret naughty bench at home for doing all the stuff that would be blasphemy if made public... :shock:
> ...



Indeed. In one if his blog posts somewhere he mentions that all his benches have them. Probably not needed for most of the student work so why spend the cash on those benches.


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## bennymk (16 Mar 2018)

great thread..


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## custard (17 Mar 2018)

NickN":36wlnbia said:


> I'm 100% chuffed with the result of this project, something that a couple of years ago I'd have dismissed as impossible



Well said Nick, for my money that's what amateur woodworking should be all about; expanding your skills and amazing yourself with finished projects. Enjoy that warm glow of accomplishment...you've earned it!

=D>


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## beechman (8 Apr 2018)

That's a very impressive bench Nick. Well done indeed. It's amazing what can be achieved with minimal investment in woodworking tools. Paul Sellers has a great philosophy as well as a very pleasing delivery style.


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## Tasky (9 Apr 2018)

beechman":ms1efsiw said:


> Paul Sellers has a great philosophy as well as a very pleasing delivery style.


To me, he always seems like the woodworking teacher we never had, at school... or rather, the one we wish we'd had. 

We did have one, Mr. Crozier, but there wasn't much on the school syllabus and most of it was leaning toward future technology. All our work was in something like MDF and mainly just for building basic shapes to use as moulds for vac-forming with plastic sheets. 
The only thing I remember about classes was the clunk of a tommy bar and Mr. Crozier's Geordie-esque accent going, "Ey yew - Stop pleyin' wi' da' vice"!! Never actually used a vice once in over 3 years of class. 

So yeah, Sellers is helping to fill the gaps in my schooling!!


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