# Made in England Stanley 4 1/2 x 2



## Mr_P (18 Mar 2014)

Surfing evil bay last week and thought I spotted a bargain. A shabby 4 1/2 with surface rust so thought I'd risk it, arrived safe n sound so I dived straight in and polished one side, doh small crack and the other side an even bigger one. Stopped polishing and stripped it and returned to ebay to find another just as cheap and it arrived today.

This one had brown plastic handles dohhh but weighed a lot more than the original, so stripped it down and weighed the soles

Wooden sole = 1016 grams
Plastic = 1263 grams also 5mm wider at 76mm (G12-045)







Thought quality dropped of a cliff with the arrival of plastic handles or have I just been lucky (in a roundabout way) ?


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## Vann (18 Mar 2014)

Mr_P":115o6f9d said:


> Surfing evil bay last week and thought I spotted a bargain. A shabby 4 1/2 with surface rust so thought I'd risk it, arrived safe n sound so I dived straight in and polished one side, doh small crack and the other side an even bigger one.


I don't know what it is with 4 1/2 planes, but I've had 4 or 5 arrive with cracks from the mouth, or down one side.



Mr_P":115o6f9d said:


> ...so stripped it down and weighed the soles


 :shock: You did what !!! You weighed the soles :shock: :shock: (I do that too)   

Wooden sole = 1016 grams
Plastic = 1263 grams also 5mm wider at 76mm (G12-045)

Mine are weighed with SWMBOs kitchen scales :mrgreen: 
English 4½s weigh between 1120g & 1240g - with the later being from the same period as your second plane.
USA 4½s weigh between 1030g & 1050g - these being type 11, 13 & 14.
Record 04½s from 960g (with one side wing broken off) to 1070g.



Mr_P":115o6f9d said:


> Thought quality dropped of a cliff with the arrival of plastic handles or have I just been lucky (in a roundabout way) ?


Weight may be good for momentum through knots, but it's not necessarily a sign of quality. The best quality Stanleys are said to be the earlier USA ones, and as you can see, they're amoung the lightest. It's allowing the castings to settle before machining (and during?) that helps produce a flat sole. And attention to detail (QC).

As you can see on your latest plane, Stanley have increased the quality by having not one, not two, not four points of contact between the sole a frog - but a massive EIGHT contact faces. This is of course not a quality issue, but the beancounters attempting to further reduce the amount of machining required. Bedrocks have only one point of contact between frog and sole, and they are the best there are.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Berncarpenter (18 Mar 2014)

I piad £3 for one of these heavy plastic handled planes last summer in a car boot sale . The sole was pretty good just needed an hour to flatten , sharpened and honed the iron and then gave it a go . Boy was i surprised this crappy plastic handled plane worked better than any of my other smoothers and is now my go to plane.






I hope yours is a good user too 

Cheers Bern


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## AndyT (19 Mar 2014)

I do agree that there are good Stanley planes with plastic handles. My no 4 which I bought new in about 1979 is an excellent tool. It was made in Sheffield though. I would be far more wary of later models made in low wage countries.


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## G S Haydon (19 Mar 2014)

Classy shot Bern 8)


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## MMUK (20 Mar 2014)

AndyT":3k8uuny7 said:


> I do agree that there are good Stanley planes with plastic handles. My no 4 which I bought new in about 1979 is an excellent tool. It was made in Sheffield though. I would be far more wary of later models made in low wage countries.




I have two of the plastic handled #5 Jacks and they're as good as any other.

I suspect those that rubbish them are the ones who can't set them up properly :wink:


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Mar 2014)

I did measure the mouth of a new of a new no.4 against an old no.6. 
The no.4 was nearly 50% wider.


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## GLFaria (22 Mar 2014)

AndyT":zcdb2rcg said:


> I do agree that there are good Stanley planes with plastic handles. My no 4 which I bought new in about 1979 is an excellent tool. It was made in Sheffield though. I would be far more wary of later models made in low wage countries.



Lucky guy! I bought my first one in the early 70's and spent a week just getting the sole flat and putting the sides square  Of course, you guessed it, it was a Handyman...  . I managed to put it reasonably workable, though.
I have a no. 3 bought at the same time, and another one about the same vintage, plastic-looking brownish totes, both ok. But they are the so-called Bailey versions, not Handymans.


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## Berncarpenter (26 Oct 2014)

Treated my 41/2 and replaced the plastic handles with some Black Walnut that i picked up from the Yandles show last month .









































Love this plane even more now .

Cheers Bern


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## G S Haydon (26 Oct 2014)

Top work Bern (hammer)


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## Berncarpenter (26 Oct 2014)

Thanks Graham and congratulations on your Popular woodworking slot , quite shocked but not surprised to see you there.
Off car booting this morning so better sign out and get going before all the good stuffs gone.

Cheers Bern


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## AndyT (26 Oct 2014)

Very classy job!

I like it a lot.


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## Vann (26 Oct 2014)

Beautiful job on that tote !

Cheers, Vann.


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## G S Haydon (26 Oct 2014)

Thanks Bern, it might be short lived but it's nice to have the chance. Happy hunting at the car boot.


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## Mr_P (26 Oct 2014)

Great job.

This article might help others follow your outstanding example.

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/ritt ... ote-01.asp


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## Berncarpenter (26 Oct 2014)

Thanks Andy ,Van and Mr P

Good link Mr P but that guy makes the job seem more complicated than it is , especially the hole placement . I just offered the new shape handle up marked where the stud was and drilled free hand .











Drilled from the top half way and then from the bottom to make sure i didnt wander off coarse.

Cheers Bern


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## jimi43 (27 Oct 2014)

Those handles are pure class Bern! Superb! =D> 

As for you guys weighing the soles of different versions of a specific type of Bailey plane....I actually found this fascinating...which is why I plan to get out more this week! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

There is something distinctly Faustian about this thread! :twisted: 

Oh...and yes...our Graham the celebrity...had to happen...the guy's a natural! =D> 

Jimi


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## Vann (28 Oct 2014)

jimi43":1adpuog4 said:


> As for you guys weighing the soles of different versions of a specific type of Bailey plane....I actually found this fascinating...which is why I plan to get out more this week! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Help, help, I'm being picked-on !!!  

:mrgreen: 

Cheers, Vann.


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