# Yet another casting infill plane.....



## gasman (30 Jun 2016)

It is becoming a habit - thought I was done with this but my wife went and got me a mitre plane casting from St James Bay Tool Co for my birthday. I have been busy with other projects so only got going on Sunday....
Here is wot I got when I unpacked it





I haven't weighed it but it is another meaty bit of bronze - about 3.5 kg or so
I started with a 4" belt sander set up carefully at 90 degrees to the bench with a 60G new belt on it - plus some 80G paper stuck to the bench
Quite quickly got the bottom flat and the sides roughly sanded




Found I had some 6mm ground flat step left which I thought would do very well for a base - I need to decide whether to epoxy this or to sweat it on - trouble is they are both big ol lumps of metal and will take more heat than I can get to them probably




I decided quickly this is going to have a modified Norris adjuster so started with some 1/4 inch silver steel round bar and threaded it with a 1/4" 40 tip die. Also used a cut off bit of 3/4" round bar to make the pivot piece - and tapped that with a corresponding tap




Finally in this little intro session I thought about the little bit which locks into the blade - can't remember what its called now. Jim Kingshotts book 'Making & Modifying Woodworking Tools' is so fantastic in all respects it is my bedtime reading ATM!
So I cut off a little bit of 1/2" plate and milled this then drilled a 5mm hole in it to take the end of the threaded rod




I've got some wenge somewhere, or a 6x3x3" black ebony block which I could make the infills out of - or even some lovely oak burr but I fancy a bigger contrast than my 2 beech infills. I'll have a look this weekend
Regards to all
Mark


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## Bm101 (30 Jun 2016)

Please keep updating as you go Gasman. Really looking forward to seeing how you get on especially as you say you've done it before. Loads of pics and tips would be fantastic. I'm messing about with a little stanley 110 trying to make something decent from it at the moment. Nothing like the scale of yours of course but any tips and information always helps.
Cheers
Chris


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## Bedrock (1 Jul 2016)

Mark
Re wenge v ebony, I have a couple of pieces of wenge, and used part for the sole of a David Barron type high angle smoother. I found that I could not achieve a crisp edge to the end grain of the sole, and with use it has continued to "fray". The splinters are vicious and, as warned in my "Wood identification and use", do go septic.

FWIW, I would go with the ebony.

Regards Mike


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## rxh (1 Jul 2016)

I'll be following this thread with keen interest. I think sweating is the way to go if you want a truly long lasting joint. I haven't tried sweating such large items but I think it could be done using a barbecue (even a disposable one) as a heat source.


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## Racers (2 Jul 2016)

Wait until the wife has gone out and pop it on the aga ;-)

Pete


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## gasman (4 Jul 2016)

Many thanks for your comments gentlemen
Pete I agree that could be the way - have done some research on sweating a sole and seems pretty straightforward actually
I wonder if barbecue underneath and blow torch from above would be a good way to go? Seems fairly straightforward. we will see
We had guests over the weekend so I didn't get much done until sunday afternoon
I changed the grits on the belt sander and worked my way through to 240 - all quite easy and still seemed square




Had a look at the 6mm gauge plate and cut it 2mm over width




Rounded off the corners








The base is going to look nice I think if I can sweat it on well - now wondering if I should have cut it after sweating - I will just have to clamp it up loosely before heating as the solder sets




I turned my attention to silver soldering. Jim Kingshott's book seemed to trivialise it but I found a Youtube video explaining it pretty well and it seemed fairly simple so I ordered this kit 
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331884859321?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I thought an old fire grate might be a good place to do the work




Heres the bits that needed soldering - the traveller - I had made one and then another as a backup - so I silver solvered both




I mixed up the flux to 'the consistency of single cream' as instructed
I used a butane burner which worked fine




Here's the 2 travellers after soldering but before cleaning up




And here's where the whole adjuster has got to - all fine I think - needs the plate cutting to size and shaping, me to work out how to attach the plate to the rest of it to allow it to swivel, and the adjuster knob making plus generally cleaning up but OK I think




One of the things I think is outstanding about Kingshott's book is giving novices like me the confidence to try something that is 'new' - and I think sweating on the sole will be the next thing to have a go at. Can I ask if people think I should c cut the mouth in the bronze before putting the sole on or cut them at the same time on the mill which is my hunch??
Thanks all
Regards Mark


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## Racers (4 Jul 2016)

The mass of the body is greater than the sole so it will take more heating so I would bbq the body and blowtorch the sole.
I would cut the mouth before sweating the sole on.

Pete


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## gasman (6 Jul 2016)

Thanks Pete
Another thing has occurred to me. The sole of the casting is about 6 or 7mm thick and the inside is obviously rough. Add to that the 6mm steel plate I'm going to add and you get a meaty 13mm sole. However, if I want a 16 degree angle for the blade, then according to my rusty maths, that means that the length of the bevelled part of the sole will be 13/tan16 which is about 41mm. That seems a bit excessive to me - so I may mill the inside out a bit to make it (a) flat and (b) thinner - any better suggestions? I definitely think it needs a steel sole on it but I wonder what the makers intended?
Cheers
Mark


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## AndyT (6 Jul 2016)

I'm sure you are well set up for success and have no direct experience to offer. But I did once talk to a chap in Bristol Design about their own range of bronze planes with steel soles and he said the sweating job was done in a small kiln. If you happen to know a potter, this could be another option.


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## gasman (6 Jul 2016)

Nice idea Andy thanks
Any thoughts about the sole being too thick?? Does it matter if there is a 40mm long metal slope where the blade will rest - I guess not?
Cheers Mark


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## n0legs (6 Jul 2016)

The bronze will heat up more readily than the steel and the solder will prefer to bond with it than the steel. 
I think I would pre-tin the steel sole first then sweat both together. Clean clean clean is the order of the day for a successful solder joint.
Get it hot and introduce the solder. It will creep into the joint easily.


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## Racers (6 Jul 2016)

If you can mill a 40mm bevel then go for it, You can't have to much support, just make sure once the infill is in the blade is still flat, Carl Holtey has a brass pin at the back to avoid problems with the infill moving if you could do a final cut on the mouth and pin that would be good.

I would lightly tin both surfaces wire it tightly together and heat it up.

Pete


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## gasman (9 Jul 2016)

I had an hour or so yesterday - and started milling the bronze casting




I flattened the whole of the rough inside with a 12mm milling cutter and it came out reasonably. I don't think my mill is accurate enough to get rid of these swirly marks completely - not that it matters as this will all be hidden by infills. I had probably taken about 2 or even 3 mm off the inside so that the final thickness of the sole will be about 10mm. This means that the minimum length of the bevel will be 10/tan 16 = 34mm




Then started to think about the mouth. I cannot find any instructions, but after doing a bit of research most of the mitre planes I have seen on the web seem to have the mouth about 40% of the way from the front so I used this as a basis for the plans




I mounted the casting at 16 degrees in the vice








Then realised that the cutter didn't project enough not to be fouled by the sides - so had to withdraw the cutter a bit - and then I ran out of time so will pick it up tomorrow
Cheers
Mark


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## gasman (12 Jul 2016)

The weekend was frustrating and I would love some advice about how to proceed...
I milled out the mouth of the bronze then cleaned up the corners with files - all good




Then cut the base down to size




Decided to round the back corners of the sole - I can always change this a bit once it is sweated on. Clamped up as I decided to add 2 locating screws to stop it slipping around on the molten solder when I sweat it on. So I clamped it up




Drilled 4mm holes through the base and into the steel sole




Drilled out those holes in the sole to about 4mm depth and then tapped very slowly using lots of cutting fluid with a 5mm bottom tap




After enlarging the holes in the base to 5mm I could then secure with 2 screws. There are only about 2 viable threads in each hole but it should serve its purpose which is to locate rather than compress 




Here's where I got into trouble
This is the kit I had assembled to tin the bronze base and the sole - meths to degrease, flux, solder, a blow torch, soldering iron




I cleaned and degreased the flat surface, fluxed it, heated up the sole with the blowtorch until it was hot, then added the solder and whatever I did it just formed molten balls on the surface - and was very reluctant to be spread out on the surface by any means.
So I just wonder whether anyone could advise me - I suspect that either (1) I have the wrong flux (2) I have the wrong solder (3) the surface isn't hot enough - so maybe I need to fire up a charcoal barbecue?? Pete nice idea about the Aga but (a) It is off for the summer and and (b)I would get skinned alive
Any advice gratefully received
Thanks all
Mark


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## Racers (12 Jul 2016)

Sounds like a problem with the flux, or heating up the sole burnt it off/oxidised the surface.
I would clean the surface then sand it with fine grit wet and dry, clean it again, lather it with plumbing flux and heat from underneath. 
You could do with much bigger gauge solder it will take lots to tin the metal, wipe the excess off while its hot.

Pete

Scrubbing with a small wire brush dipped in flux can help break through the oxidation


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## gasman (12 Jul 2016)

Thanks Pete great advice I will get some thicker shtuff. I have more flux on the way too
Mark


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## n0legs (13 Jul 2016)

Mark, is it a lead free solder you tried with?

On brass and bronze I usually use La-Co Regular or if you can get it La-Co Brite liquid flux. I find the Brite to be a bit more aggressive.
Templers Telux is another excellent flux if you can't get any of the others.
Bakers Fluid is lovely on steel, but not so good on non ferrous.
Pete's advice is good and I can only echo the "clean clean clean" mantra.
A nice bit of mole skin smothered in tallow will make a wiping cloth to be proud of, a bit of cotton folded so there's no frayed edges will do though.
If you go with the wire brush idea use a brass brush, it will cut down the risk of cross contamination being similar in make up to the bronze.
A stick of Tinman's Solder would work wonders for you with this IMO. Also known as 60/40.


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## gasman (14 Jul 2016)

Many thanks NoLegs for your advice
I think I have a good plan once the new solder and flux arrive
Will keep you posted hopefully this weekend
Cheers
Mark


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## gasman (18 Jul 2016)

A couple of productive hours on saturday morning
I finally managed to do the tinning. It was Pete's comment that made it work in my head I think when he said that I should get some thicker diameter solder and that it would take quite a bit to do it - so I realised it would be quite a thick layer. So, clean clean clean, then flux then my blowtorch and it gradually got a thickish layer of solder all over




Heres the sole and the casting both tinned




And here they have my 2 screws loosely holding them together




Now I was feeling very pleased with my self and, amazingly, got permission from SWIMBP to use the Aga to sweat the sole on








Then there was a marvellous moment when the solder suddenly melted and it all seemed to drop together




There now seemed to be a very narrow gap which all looked good.




Whilst it was still very hot I clamped it up which squeezed out a bit more solder and then left it to cool




The following morning I took the clamps off and it all fell apart 
As you can see there is nothing stuck to the steel sole at all - but a very thin layer over the bronze casting




It just doesn't seem to have stuck to the steel at all. I am giving up and have ordered some more epoxy metal putty which worked fine for an earlier model. I have no idea what I did wrong but any advice gratefully received
Thanks everyone
Cheers Mark


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## Racers (18 Jul 2016)

I guess the flux wasn't right for the steel, it should have bonded to the steel.

Pete


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## Bm101 (18 Jul 2016)

Awww. Going so well as I read that then noooo! Hope you are not too disappointed. Keep at it.


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## dickm (18 Jul 2016)

What flux did you use? When soldering to steel, Bakers fluid has always worked well for me.


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## Tony Zaffuto (18 Jul 2016)

Anyone here care to contribute thoughts on silver solder? In my plant, we've used it for tool assembly (steel on steel) and certain industrial gas piping joints (copper to copper), but never steel to brass. Might be an alternative.


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## rxh (18 Jul 2016)

From photo IMG_0397.JPG I think that you may not have had the steel hot enough when you tinned it as the tinning looks rather "pasty" to me. I suggest that you try again but first practice tinning and joining on smaller pieces of scrap steel. The flux I use is a sort of brown paste - I think it may be Fluxite but the container has lost its label.


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## n0legs (19 Jul 2016)

What is the composition of the steel ?
Just wondering as I understand tool steels can have varying amounts of chromium. If this is the case you may need a very aggressive acid flux, like soldering stainless. 
From the photos it's safe to say the sole was not tinned. Whether this is a flux, heat or solder issue I'm not sure. What materials are you using Mark?


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## gasman (11 Jul 2017)

Morning all.
Almost a year since this project got shelved because of my abject failure to sweat the sole on successfully. Since then I had 2 more attempts at the same thing - tried different fluxes etc, and I thought it was there the last time - but then the thing fell apart again when I dropped it from not very high onto the bench. Thats when it got shelved - enough's enough!
However, after finishing a few cabinets etc, I got the bug again last weekend. I bought some new metal epoxy, cleaned everything off yet again and started again.... I didn't take lots of photos as wasn't sure it was going to work so thats why there are several stages missing.
There was another problem I had to solve - geometry. The low angle - 17 degrees or so - of the blade meant that the mouth was much too far back - so I came up with a solution which was to use epoxy and scraps of steel etc to move the mouth forward by about 25mm. Purists I am sure have already turned away in horror...





I know it looks ugly but this wont be seen because of the sole and the infill




I cleaned up the sole and the bottom of the casting yet again...




I thought I had a photo of the clamp up - but I can't find it. Anyway it was easy - thin layer of 2 part epoxy spread out evenly. Used the 2 little screws to localise the sole and casting correctly, clamped up using 4 holdfasts onto wood on my bench and left it for the day. 
And it all went fine. Barely visible joint line




Here's the joint after a bit of belt-sanding
Then I remounted the whole thing in the vice and started very slowly milling out the mouth - was very straightforward - just a case of going very slowly




Until eventually I just started to see an indentation on the sole




Once I ran the belt sander along the sole, I 'broke through' and then used a diamond cutting wheel on the Dremel to cut a 2mm mouth




which worked out quite well...




So heres where we are at the end of the weekend








Comments welcome. Thanks guys


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## D_W (11 Jul 2017)

Looks fabulous. It will be hidden by wood and you can't see it on the bottom. Perfect!


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## AndyT (11 Jul 2017)

I'd say that was a very creative solution to the problem. Well worth a little thinking time!


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## D_W (11 Jul 2017)

And good on you for recognizing that a proportion was out of whack, and stopping and fixing it instead of just bulling it through and putting up a picture later claiming that it works great (and then setting it aside because it feels funny to use).

And the build up inside the plane is really neatly done, too.


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## Bm101 (11 Jul 2017)

Blimey Gasman. Great job! Looking forward to more updates now!


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## rxh (11 Jul 2017)

I'm glad to see you are back in action. I think it will turn out very well.


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## gasman (13 Jul 2017)

Thanks Gentlemen - nice to be back
I got a little bit done yesterday amidst a lot of other stuff
Mainly it was just cleaning up the mouth some more using diamond bits in a dremel and the end of a file used as a kind of cold chisel / scraper
I ended up with this




The angle measured is a fraction over 17 degrees. Even having moved the mouth forward as described it means that I am going to cut away the rounded rear of the casting a little at the sides to get the iron to seat at the correct angle. Ill mock up some infills next I think
Regards Mark


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## gasman (16 Oct 2017)

Time seems to just fly by without me doing anything to this plane. Sorry
I found a lump of ebony under a pile of old wood which I thought I had lost in the move 3 years ago - its actually a 6x6x3" turning blank and I thought that would make nice infills - don't have any ebony infills




Cleaned it up and then cut it on the bandsaw








Started shaping the infills to fit. I thought I might like a bun. I know this type of plane doesn't usually have ne but there are a few images of those that do - so I thought I would make one - I can always remove later




Then I thought I had better work on the inside of the casting before doing too much more to the infills




Got it to fit roughly - then worked more on the bun




After a couple of pleasant hours going through the grades - I got down to #3600 paper and it looked like this




I really do mean to get this finished. Apologies to all for my lack of progress
Cheers 
mark


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## Bm101 (17 Oct 2017)

That ebony is going to look fantastic contrasting with the bronze Mark. I like the form of the bun and how it slightly slopes back to the mouth, it's very elegant (and there's a word I don't use often in everyday life), in an understated way. 
I have a lovely bit of rosewood gifted by an ever generous and helpful Custard that I had set aside for the bullnose casting I am amateuring on in between real life but looking at that I'm wondering if I save that and use a bit of the bog oak I got from Mac Timbers at the European woodworking show a month or so back. Its dimensioned a bit better as well and would save waste. Always a plus for a beginner like me.
Thanks for the update and don't apologise. There's no need. Personally I quite like the fact that it takes you _nearly_ as long as I would to get round to finishing it. It gives me hope.  
Best regards
Chris


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## gasman (18 Oct 2017)

Thanks Chris for yr nice comments. I actually like the fact that when I’m really fed up Ive got a project on the back burner to pick up and spend a pleasant couple of stress free hours on. I’m away fir 10 days now so there will be another delay!! BW mark


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## gasman (16 Nov 2017)

Another month or two has passed....
A little progress made...
First I spent some more time fettling the infills to fit better




Next a big decision as to whether to use a Norris adjuster - and although it would be easier to say no, I like them and I like the challenge plus I had one I made for an earlier plane which I will be able to cut and adjust to fit this plane
So I made a replica wedged rear infill out of oak and trial fitted the adjuster.








The only problem here which you can see from the photos is I am going to have to cut a small 'groove' (can't think of a better word) in the curved bronze rear wall for the adjuster to come out of as the angle here is only 17.5 degrees. I know this is clumsy but it will hardly be seen once the blade is fitted and will mean I have an adjuster. Thats a commitment move and I haven't got the b***s yet! I will also have to cut a small amount off the inside of the walls either side to allow the iron to lie flat.
Finally I cut an iron from 6mm O1 steel, 50mm wide and 250mm long, then milled a 20 degree primary bevel on the end. 




But then I decided I would grind the bevel so I ended up with this




Finally, the iron will be moved by means of a lug on the traveller similar to the veritas method with matching holes in the iron so I carefully drilled 3 x 1/4" holes in the iron 15mm apart at the appropriate place to allow for wear etc of the iron. Even using a centring drill bit in the mill and going slowly, somehow it wandered so they are about 0.25mm out of perfect alignment. Annoying




Now I have sent the iron to Phil of this Parish who is kindly going to harden it for me - I must learn that technique sometime
Thanks all
Cheers
Mark


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## gasman (21 Nov 2017)

I worked on the lever cap over the weekend
I took a 1/2" length of brass rod and cut a 7/16 ACME 10tpi thread in it and also cut a lump of bronze about 35mm square from a piece I used a couple of years ago to make a previous lever cap and then used a disc sander to roughly reduce it to nearer circular




Drilled a 7mm hole in the centre of the 'lump'




Then tapped the 7mm hole with a 5/16" x 32 bottom tap








After reducing the diameter of one end of the rod down to 3/8", I cut a matching 5/16" x 32 thread in the end about 1cm long




Then I screwed the 2 parts together using loctite and turning it on the lathe until all was regular...




Then it was just a case of knurling and shaping the head and polishing it all up


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## gasman (21 Nov 2017)

Meanwhile I turned my attention to the lever cap itself.
This kit came with a bronze casting roughly the right shape




Lots of filing, belt sander etc etc followed by finer files and then going down from 120 to 240 grit abranet












Finally I cut the lever cap screw down to an appropriate length, filed and polished the ends and assembled it




Its a very shiny lovely looking thing 
Cheers all
Mark


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## Bm101 (21 Nov 2017)

Mark. That looks mustard as we say round here mate. Superb. Stunning.I hope you're very proud.


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## gasman (5 Dec 2017)

A little more of this - now creeping towards the finish line!
I used the dummy rear infill as a guide to get the adjuster in the right place and then transferred the markings and position to the ebony












Meanwhile I had to file a little of the rear wall away to take the adjuster




All fitting nicely....




Then I filed a bit more of the sides away so that the iron would lie flat... and at the same time flattened the top edges of the bronze sides etc on diamond plate then the polisher




I used a 3/4" brass bar to cut a chunk with which to make the adjuster knob








Tapped it with a 1/4"x40 tip bottom tap, inserted an old bit of 1/4" steel rod and then turned, polished and knurled it on the lathe to this




Which leaves me roughly here...




Hopefully I will get the iron back soon from Philly - then I can cut the adjuster to length, epoxy in the infills, polish the sides, sharpen the blade and finally finish this marathon
Thanks for looking
Mark


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## gasman (8 Dec 2017)

I'm not sure if anyone is following this thread any more - my fault as I have been so slow with it all - but I am close to the end so will finish off this in the next week or so

My iron arrived back from Philly - beautifully hardened thanks so much Phil such a gentleman
With the iron placed in the adjuster and the blade at the mouth, I was then able to cut the adjuster to length





... and then cut a 40 TPI 1/4" thread in the end so the adjuster knob could be screwed on - I will loctite this later 








I have put a polished face on the back of the iron and sharpened it to 25+1 degrees
So the only major job left to do is to make elongated grub screws to mount the lever cap and drill the holes to attach that to the body - and then fettle the whole thing so it actually cuts plus I will put my mark onto the lever cap




Cheers
Mark


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## Racers (8 Dec 2017)

Following closely, it’s looking quite splendid. 

Pete


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## Bm101 (8 Dec 2017)

=D> =D> =D>
Think you might be surprised at the number watching but not commenting Mark as Pete hints at. Keep up the excellent work fella, really looking forward to more updates when you get the time.


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## Harbo (8 Dec 2017)

Yes watching with interest 

Rod


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## D_W (8 Dec 2017)

Very Nice!


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## memzey (8 Dec 2017)

Looks amazing!


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## gasman (11 Dec 2017)

Thanks gents for your kind comments
Best wishes
Mark


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## gasman (27 Jun 2019)

Mmmm I feel I owe everyone an apology. 3 years ago I started this infill mitre plane and I got close to finishing it - but then one thing led to another and I see it is over 18 months since I last updated.
When I last touched it, the lever cap needed fitting to the base, and the infills needed epoxying in place but most other things were finished. However, you might just recall that I had epoxied the steel base to the bronze casting as sweating it on had not worked......
Well pipper me if that didn't fail too - it got dropped onto the floor and the epoxy failed. So I had to start all over again. This time round, I decided to use the blind holes I had previously drilled into the 6mm gauge plate base, tap the holes and bolt it to the casting as well as using the epoxy. There was one hole at the front and one at the back. I had tapped them previously but the holes weren't deep enough and the threads had 'cut out' so I started again. I drilled both holes very carefully on the mill until only about 1mm of steel remained. In order to maximise the 'bite' of the bolt I used in only 4mm of 'depth' I used a 5/16" 40 tpi tap and die set - hence the rather home made look of the nut you can see as I had to make that from scratch.. When both holes etc were tapped it all felt much more secure so I epoxied it all up and the result was much better
I didn't take photos during the work as I didn't think to update this thread but here's the result:




Heres the rear screw with the epoxied-in rear infill




Then I had to mount the lever cap - so started by drilling these holes in the sides of the casting. I marked it out trying to think about how the lever cap would sit and trying to get the spacing such that the lever cap screw would be perpendicular, or nearly perpendicular, to the blade when tightened.




I made the two bolts which secure the lever cap - this is just 1/4" steel rod. The screwdriver slots are cut in the end with a hacksaw then carefully enlarged with needle files




Then I drilled and tapped corresponding holes on each side of the lever cap




I had to drill a hole in the bottom of the 'bun' front infill to give room for the new securing bolt and then decided I wanted it shiny so using Rustin's Plastic coating stuff which I think is amazing to make it very shiny




So that is as far as I have got - I am going to finish this thread if it kills me
Final update soon!
BW to all
Mark


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## Mr_Pea (27 Jun 2019)

Relax, I have threads on here far older than this (including some castings  )

Well done, Great Job and I Love that front bun looks very Scottish to my eye.

Look forward to seeing shavings this year sometime.


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## gasman (1 Jul 2019)

Got this mitre plane finished over the weekend, gave it a polish, sharpened the iron and have taken the obligatory shaving photo - the plane has quite a narrow mouth and therefore will take a very fine shaving. A huge relief to get this done and dusted after 3 years! I plan to use this - a slight modification will be needed on the shooting board
Cheers Mark


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## AndyT (1 Jul 2019)

You've clearly not forgotten how to do it! That looks marvellous.


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## Bm101 (1 Jul 2019)

I've been following this for *ages* Mark.  Every time an update was published I'd get excited.
Congratulations! 
Looks absolutely incredible and more importantly works as should. Great work managing all the problems.
Form_ and_ function. Glorious.
Well done!
=D>
Chris


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## gasman (3 Jul 2019)

Thanks Chris that's kind of you to say so. I have been 'rationalising' my hand tools - got rid of quite a few planes etc on eBay and I intend to use my home made planes a lot more. I am going to spend a few hours fettling them and getting them so they work better
Many thanks again
Mark


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