# A New Hall Table Project FINISHED



## Lord Nibbo (19 Sep 2008)

It's been in the design stages for several weeks now.

An American Black Walnut Hall Table.

Early design had three drawers and through tenons in the table top.






Revised pic




Extra detail




Drawn with metal handles but I think it will have wooden handles when built.





*The final design*
With some redesign of the top. Out go the through tenons, in come two outer rails with the grain running the length with the centre panel having the grain running across the table. Not decided as yet but I might add a very small chamfered edge where the two opposing grains meet.




Dimensions 60" long, 16" depth, 30" high


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## Ironballs (19 Sep 2008)

Like the idea of the chamfer between the boards on the top. The design looks very modern yet classical, but there is one thing that stands out to my eye as not right. It's the joint for the stretcher, I reckon a wedged through tenon would look much better and give an overall harmony to the design


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## Lord Nibbo (19 Sep 2008)

Ironballs":37oqiycn said:


> but there is one thing that stands out to my eye as not right. It's the joint for the stretcher, I reckon a wedged through tenon would look much better and give an overall harmony to the design



Hmmm! :-k I'm open to a vote on that.


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## TheTiddles (19 Sep 2008)

I really don't think that wedge looks right on a piece like that. Is it not supposed to go with the other pieces you have made recently?

Aidan


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## wizer (19 Sep 2008)

Not a fan of the wedge joint either. Look forward to the end result.


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## Paul Chapman (19 Sep 2008)

Ironballs":hdeyjsfs said:


> I reckon a wedged through tenon would look much better and give an overall harmony to the design



I agree with Ironballs. The original design for the stretcher would be more in keeping for something like an oak refectory table, but not for a hall table in American Black Walnut.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (19 Sep 2008)

TheTiddles":1kfn8d2n said:


> I really don't think that wedge looks right on a piece like that. Is it not supposed to go with the other pieces you have made recently?
> 
> Aidan



Although not in the same room as the cupboard unit 





Or the drawer unit





Yes I do want a sort of match to a chunky modern look with clean lines no frills.

So that's one for wedges, one against wedges. :lol:
(edit) 1 for, 3 against.


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## Paul Chapman (19 Sep 2008)

Another thought, Your Lordship. Will the top be in solid wood? If so, will you get any problems with the different grain directions, with expansion and contraction? Might be better to make the central panel from veneered MDF :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (19 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":1x3uq4eb said:


> Another thought, Your Lordship. Will the top be in solid wood? If so, will you get any problems with the different grain directions, with expansion and contraction? Might be better to make the central panel from veneered MDF :-k
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



:lol: :lol: :lol: I've been waiting for someone to ask about opposing grain, your the first Paul. 

But I've pondered over it for several days, I do have a solution planned. That's why I mentioned small chamfers, it's part of the plan. 8-[


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## Paul Chapman (19 Sep 2008)

Lord Nibbo":1tjz6n2r said:


> That's why I mentioned small chamfers, it's part of the plan. 8-[



Ah, a cunning plan :lol:


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## Ironballs (20 Sep 2008)

Well your other piece has very clean lines and that external wedge looks a bit rustic on your new design, in my opinion they wouldn't match


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## stef (20 Sep 2008)

Ironballs":1ei8atl4 said:


> Well your other piece has very clean lines and that external wedge looks a bit rustic on your new design, in my opinion they wouldn't match



i agree.


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## maltrout512 (20 Sep 2008)

I'm with Ironballs


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## motownmartin (20 Sep 2008)

maltrout512":55thlk8s said:


> I'm with Ironballs


Do they make you walk funny :lol: 

Sorry, i'll get my coat


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## Lord Nibbo (20 Sep 2008)

I've started cutting the wood for the top, everything was thicknessed i.e. the two outer rails and the short pieces that will be the centre panel were also cut to length. Everything was matched up and marked. Now all these pieces will be kept in the house to acclimatise, none of the top will be assembled until I’ve finished the base & drawers.

The foreground in this pic shows the shorter lengths laid out and marked up for matching, in the background are the two outer rails of the table top.





A closer view of the pieces










Next will be sizing the wood and making up the base.


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## Paul Chapman (20 Sep 2008)

When are you going to reveal the cunning plan, Your Lordship? My guess is that you are going to have the two outer rails of the top fixed to the base and the central panel "floating" between them, secured possibly with loose, un-glued tongues.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## TheTiddles (20 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":akmlf7r4 said:


> When are you going to reveal the cunning plan, Your Lordship? My guess is that you are going to have the two outer rails of the top fixed to the base and the central panel "floating" between them, secured possibly with loose, un-glued tongues.



Come on, that's not cunning, even I guessed that one, there must something more, surely??? How about temperature compensating bi-metal strips below the top which change the length of the table when the sun shines on it?

Aidan


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## Lord Nibbo (20 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":4k0zdc3i said:


> When are you going to reveal the cunning plan, Your Lordship? My guess is that you are going to have the two outer rails of the top fixed to the base and the central panel "floating" between them, secured possibly with loose, un-glued tongues.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



I'm afraid you'll have to wait right to the end,


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## DaveL (20 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":2zms8u8k said:


> Ah, a cunning plan :lol:


I don't see that using a turnip in the table design is going to help? :roll:

I do like the look of this timber, every time you post pictures of it I am a bit jealous of it.


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## OPJ (20 Sep 2008)

I do like tusk tenon joinery but, I don't feel it looks right as part of this piece either. A wedged through tenon would probably look best, as suggested earlier. Often the wedges are cut in a contrasting timber - would that work against walnut with a light timber? :-k 

That's not a bad selection of ABW either. I think you once said you buy it from Lathams in Yate - is this from the same lot? I've got to buy some American Cherry soon and I may give them a try. Their quote wasn't the dearest I've come across, either.


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## Lord Nibbo (20 Sep 2008)

OPJ":35ujhcxu said:


> I do like tusk tenon joinery but, I don't feel it looks right as part of this piece either. A wedged through tenon would probably look best, as suggested earlier. Often the wedges are cut in a contrasting timber - would that work against walnut with a light timber? :-k
> 
> That's not a bad selection of ABW either. I think you once said you buy it from Lathams in Yate - is this from the same lot? I've got to buy some American Cherry soon and I may give them a try. Their quote wasn't the dearest I've come across, either.



Yes this came from James Latham at Yate but it's not the same lot. Everything in this lot is 1 1/2" and totaled 4.25 cuft and cost £52 per cubic ft + vat + delivery total came to £290 but I only really needed approximately 2.25 cuft so as long as I don't get much sap wood I should have a lot left over. 

*So those tenons* 
1. Should I leave the tenon flush to the face when finished ? or
2. leave them proud as in the last drawing ? (1 1/2") or
3. Leave them proud but only about 1/4"?


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## Mcluma (20 Sep 2008)

I think i'm a bit late on this thread.

So this is my input to your design

Yes the top is brillian the rest is BORING. you'r other stuff is inspirational and modern and contemporary

The legs are boring and been done so many times - SORRY

all the space between the legs is unused and therefore will not add to the design

So here is my input why not make the legs into a > and < ( I hope that is clear), the wood you are using can take some pretty nice joint structures (which you are more than capable off doing)

Well that is my opinion

S


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## wizer (20 Sep 2008)

I'd have it flush.


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## Lord Nibbo (20 Sep 2008)

Mcluma":1k2o5f8e said:


> I think i'm a bit late on this thread.
> 
> So this is my input to your design
> 
> ...



No need to be sorry, it's only your opinion, what counts here is Swmbo's 

Did you mean turn the legs 90deg or 45deg? If you mean 90deg I've done that before too, infact several times







and in this pic note the dining table





As for the space between the legs unused remember the finished depth of the table legs is only 14" total and remember it's a hall table not a dining table so by it's nature it's going to be long and narrow.

I did do a drawing with the stretcher arched along the bottom edge but that got vetoed by Swmbo.


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## Ironballs (21 Sep 2008)

Flush


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## Mcluma (21 Sep 2008)

You'r furniture is very nice. like i said very contemporary

Options for the legs are
A legs
V legs
Z legs

I think the space in between the to outerlegs should be a design feature that will please the eye

I have attached a simple drawing of what i meant to say


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## Steve Maskery (21 Sep 2008)

In your photos you have all the centre pieces heart-side up. It would be better to alternate them up and down for stability. I, too, think you are asking for trouble having such a wide panel.

I recently made a new front door and had the bottom panel as a single board. One evening there was a loud band and I couldn't fine the cause. The next day though, I spotted it. The panel had split and opened up about 4mm over a width of about 600mm. The panel was a composite, two skins with insulation in between, and it was quite a lot of work to make a replacement. OK it was softwood and not ABW, but even so, I think you are asking for trouble. Veneer would have been a safer option.

Sorry, because I like the design otherwise.

Cheers
Steve


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## Lord Nibbo (22 Sep 2008)

Steve Maskery":26y1wi9n said:


> In your photos you have all the centre pieces heart-side up. It would be better to alternate them up and down for stability. I, too, think you are asking for trouble having such a wide panel.
> 
> I recently made a new front door and had the bottom panel as a single board. One evening there was a loud band and I couldn't fine the cause. The next day though, I spotted it. The panel had split and opened up about 4mm over a width of about 600mm. The panel was a composite, two skins with insulation in between, and it was quite a lot of work to make a replacement. OK it was softwood and not ABW, but even so, I think you are asking for trouble. Veneer would have been a safer option.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for your comments Steve, I respect your judgment and comments. Yes I do have a few pieces at one end of what you could say need turning over to even out any warping and with sixteen pieces it will be easy to remedy. With your split door panel I would imagine that warping wasn't a problem due to thin panels held in a frame but the problem being the panel was either glued in or was a little to tight to move freely to allow any movement, and with thin panels it won't need much shrinkage before any joints or even the wood fails.

Now for the two reasons of shrinkage and warping is why I'm making the centre panel 1" thick the same as the two outer rails, and the two rails will be screwed securely (no buttons) to the base top rails which at 5" wide I would hope will stop any possible warping. 
To deal with shrinkage Paul Chapman has pretty well guessed how I'm planning to fix the centre panel in to allow it to move freely but to refrain it from warping. So only time will tell if I'm right or if I'm right. 

Edit...
Perhaps this pic will say it all




5ft long all solid wood no veneer in sight, just 14 pieces glued together


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## Steve Maskery (22 Sep 2008)

Lord Nibbo":t40m30py said:


> I would imagine that ... the problem being the panel was either glued in or was a little to tight to move freely to allow any movement,



Exactly.

That finished top looks beautiful, I hope you are right!

Cheers
Steve


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## Lord Nibbo (26 Sep 2008)

Starting with the legs all four were thicknessed to 1" and cut to a fraction over 5" wide then a final pass on the edge over the planer gave an exact 5". Then all four were cut to same length of 29" using a stop on my Dewalt compound mitre saw.
Next was marking out all the mortises




Then the rails had all the tenons cut










Than everything was dry assembled to check out it all fit and finally both ends were glued and clamped up. 

With the clamps removed both ends were sanded down to 240 grit
(Edit whooops thats a bit too big, back in a minute)





(Edit 2 forgot a pic of the inside faces)
The inside faces showing the mortises for the upper rails and the mortise for the lower stretcher 






Next job are the rails.


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## OPJ (26 Sep 2008)

Just in case you don't already know, the slot in any mortice chisel should not be facing forwards. It shouldn't be towards the waste end on your mortices - so, if you cut from left to right, the chisel should face to the left, so that the waste is ejected in to the mortice. Otherwise, it can clog up around the auger inside and lead to problems with over-heating, which can really damage your hollow chisels. :? Very nice machine though! 

How did you cut the tenons? They look too short to have been cut by machine.


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## Lord Nibbo (26 Sep 2008)

OPJ":pzrs4lbq said:


> Just in case you don't already know, the slot in any mortice chisel should not be facing forwards. It shouldn't be towards the waste end on your mortices - so, if you cut from left to right, the chisel should face to the left, so that the waste is ejected in to the mortice. Otherwise, it can clog up around the auger inside and lead to problems with over-heating, which can really damage your hollow chisels. :? Very nice machine though!
> 
> How did you cut the tenons? They look too short to have been cut by machine.


 
Yes I know how it's supposed to be as you say but I've found that it only really matters when doing really deep mortises, doing mortises at 1"- 1 1/4" depth it's no different and anyway doing it my way the mortises are kept clean :lol: if you look at the last picture the lower mortise for the spreader, it was cut crossways using the machines other axis rather than longditudal as when used normally.

The tenons were all cut on the table saw using a tenoning jig.


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## MikeG. (26 Sep 2008)

This decision regarding how far through the tenons are going to stick is easily resolved in practice.......you make them to stick a long way through, and then keep cutting them shorter until you like them (or get final approval, signed in triplicate).

Oh, and I'm with you m'lud, on the solid top. I reckon you'll be fine. I would never even think of using veneer for the top of a table.

Mike


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## Lord Nibbo (28 Sep 2008)

Here's a pic of cutting the mortises on the front rail, there is a bit of optical distortion going on here, the blade looks to high but it's not as all the other cheeks have been cut ok.


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## Lord Nibbo (30 Sep 2008)

View of the front. All glued up and assembled and with the planers infeed table raised level with the outfeed gives me a perfectly flat base to make sure all four legs are at the same level. 








View of the rear







Closer view of the left hand end.






Right hand end view of front rail


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## Lord Nibbo (1 Oct 2008)

With the clamps off you get a better picture of what the final look will be.





Those through tenons, I finally went with the forum and went for flush finish with wedges  but I decided to add that little extra 

The wedges are more decorative than effective, but with the end piece grain running 90 deg to the tenon I had to think about over stressing the end piece and splitting it.


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## wizer (1 Oct 2008)

you don't muck about do you nibbs? Looks brilliant so far!


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## Mcluma (1 Oct 2008)

nice wedgie :lol:


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## OPJ (1 Oct 2008)

I think the end result looks good. I really like the wedges, excellent.


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## Lord Nibbo (3 Oct 2008)

Started to do the drawer runners. They are all fitted using floating tenons. I was going to support the drawers using a rebate down each side of the drawer and fixing a rail to the table, but I've decided to let the drawer sit on the rails as seen in the pic. When I've made the drawers up I shall fit guides down each side to keep the drawer straight. I've also beefed up the front rail by adding screws top and bottom to add reinforcement. 







This pic shows two off cuts that I hope will become the drawer fronts, it's still got to be sized. I have got several planks I could cut them from to get a matched set but I just couldn't bring myself to cut up more wood knowing I could make them up just gluing a couple of waste pieces together. 






Being a tight buttocks again here in this pic.
It's all the pieces for drawer sides, everything cut and planed to size and plenty to spare, all cut out from off cuts.


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## Lord Nibbo (4 Oct 2008)

*Making the Drawers*

All three cut and dry fitted, none have bottoms in as yet and all need a dado cut for the bottoms. The drawer fronts still have to be cut to size and fitted.


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## Paul Chapman (4 Oct 2008)

It's looking very nice, Your Lordship  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (4 Oct 2008)

Paul Chapman":2ic64rez said:


> It's looking very nice, Your Lordship
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Thank you Paul, 
I cheated in a way with the dovetails. I cut them as a 1/2" box joint, then marked them up and cut them out by hand. Then using the finished dovetails I marked up the pins as you would normally but used a 1/4" router cutter in my table to cut most of the surplus wood out. Doing the pins that way is so quick and it gives you a uniform depth for the pins that need very little to finish off with chisels.

(edit)
A picture is worth a thousand words :lol: 





the blue lines show what was cut on the router table the red lines show what was cut using chisels.


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## Paul Chapman (4 Oct 2008)

Lord Nibbo":2njgv60c said:


> I cheated in a way with the dovetails.



Not really cheating - it's quite normal to cut away most of the waste with a piercing saw; you just used a router instead. So we'll let you off  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Wanlock Dod (5 Oct 2008)

So presumably the cunning plan for the top is for it to be a normal table top with breadboard ends, just with the grain going the opposite way to how it might normally be laid out.

I would have thought that the end battens would be able to keep such a short "top" flat with little difficulty.

Cheers,

Dod


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## Lord Nibbo (5 Oct 2008)

Wanlock Dod":15w672c1 said:


> So presumably the cunning plan for the top is for it to be a normal table top with breadboard ends, just with the grain going the opposite way to how it might normally be laid out.
> 
> I would have thought that the end battens would be able to keep such a short "top" flat with little difficulty.
> 
> ...



Yes but the breadboard ends will actually be the front and back rails running the length of the top. I'm not bothered about warping as the rails will be fixed to the base using pocket screws not buttons, the real problem here is the 5ft wide 8" long centre panel, I'm only guessing but I expect it to move at least 1/4" over that length.


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## Lord Nibbo (16 Oct 2008)

I've not done much for the last week but yesterday I finished the drawers gave everything two coats of cellulose sanding sealer both rubbed back hard with 0000 wire wool and managed to apply one coat of danish oil, it still needs another coat at least of danish oil but here is one pic I've just taken. More pics later when I've found time.


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## Ironballs (16 Oct 2008)

Looking superb, take it those are the handles on the bench behind


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## mailee (16 Oct 2008)

That is brilliant your Lordship! Wish I could afford some hardwood  I may have a hardwood job coming up for a dining table soon anyway. I do like the look of that one, and the wedges are a stroke of excellence. I like it.


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## Lord Nibbo (16 Oct 2008)

Ironballs":3v7psl37 said:


> Looking superb, take it those are the handles on the bench behind


 Yes, the routed out face is actually the lower face and will be finger holes to grip it with. The walnut facing up is the front. Not sure if I will put them on though Swmbo don't like them


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## Ironballs (16 Oct 2008)

I sense another list of options and a poll coming on...


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## Lord Nibbo (16 Oct 2008)

Ironballs":2n4t2b2c said:


> I sense another list of options and a poll coming on...


 Well I googled images "drawer handles" and don't like any so I'm open to ideas, must be minimalist in design though


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## Ironballs (16 Oct 2008)

Weeellll, I think the drawers look excellent as they are and to keep them clear of handles would be in keeping with the rest of the piece. How about a very thin strip of ebony that runs across the entire length of the very top of the drawers and is only thick enough to gain purchase to open the drawers.

This should be disguised/hidden by the top and if it was seen when you looked under the top it would appear as a thin dark strip. My thoughts only.


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## Pete Howlett (17 Oct 2008)

I can see where you are coming from with the handles - personally I would do them on colour or another. They look a bit like liquorice allsorts (no offense). When I built furniture I always tried to make the design organic rather than accidental. Accents like handles, lock escutcheons, frame beading and edge details are really hard to get right. I spent most of my time researching the work of Carlo Ponti and Emille Jaques Ruhlmann. They were an inspiration and seemed to have all the answers. A modern day equivalent it Martin Grearson - his work is stunning for its subtlety and aplomb.


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## Lord Nibbo (24 Oct 2008)

*Work resumes on the hall table* 

With a 10mm slot cutter fitted in the router table, it took three passes on every piece to reach the desired depth of 19mm 





A pic showing all the pieces routed out





Glue up and clamping of half of the top. The floating tenons are used here to align everything but they are not glued in and in the second pic they are removed while the glue goes off.










With the ends rounded off on the sander the tenons get glued in to the rails





Later I'll be gluing to two halves of the top together then adding the rails.


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## Lord Nibbo (26 Oct 2008)

Viewed the correct way up with the side rails dry fitted, plus the arises on both side of the centre panel have been chamfered 











A closer view of the chamfered joints






With the top upside down and clamped all the holes for the pins were marked, then the rails were removed and all the holes drilled, the hole don't go all the way through the top but stop short of the upper surface by 1/8" so I had to be very careful not to drill right through.  Then the rails were replaced and reclamped, then using a drill as a centre punch I marked the tenons as shown in this pic. Next job is to remove the rails and drill through the tenons slightly off the mark to clinch the rails tight when the pins are hammered in. All the holes in the tenons have to be elongated also to allow for any wood movement.




There will be 32 pins in all 16 in each end reaching a third of the length only the middle 8" will be glued.

Edit... PS.. I still haven't revealed the cunning bit :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (26 Oct 2008)

Looking good, Your Lordship  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (30 Oct 2008)

*The cunning bit*

Your looking at the underside of the top 





Here is a closer view of one of the pieces, glue and screwed only to the rails, the centre panel is still free to move. They will add reinforcement to the dowels to keep the outer rails from moving out. Normally these bars would be fitted to the base and they would stop the drawers from tipping when they are pulled out, but on this table they get to do two jobs 





The correct way up, All sanded and awaiting the finish




A closer view


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## Paul Chapman (30 Oct 2008)

Baldrick would have been proud of you, Your Lordship  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Woodmagnet (30 Oct 2008)

Yes, very cunning L.N.


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## Lord Nibbo (31 Oct 2008)

*Applying the Finish*

Two coats of cellulose sanding sealer, both cut back with 0000 wire wool, then one coat of danish oil. Two more coats of danish oil should see it done.


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## Mattty (31 Oct 2008)

Thats a really nice piece. Well done. I especially like the wedge tenon design, the X formation is one i intend to steal soon!

The handles are a tough one, i think i'd be tempted to go for a recess to the bottom edge though i do like the laminated ones. An idea tying to the wedged tenons- maybe a small rectangle of walnut with the same X of contrasting timber would look good? 
IE it looks like the end of your tenons. Possibly bigger. 

This is one of the great joys of design- these details make such a difference to the finished piece but there are so many options that will look good i think. Especially on such a well made piece.

Regards, Mattty


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## wizer (31 Oct 2008)

There's something about the way you use Walnut that I really like. Generally I think walnut is quite ugly in large pieces, but your pieces are always lovely, I can't wait to see the result.


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## OPJ (31 Oct 2008)

Yes, you've managed to get a very nice contrast between the long rails and the intermediate pieces on the top. Looks like the finish came out great and, you're not afraid to use a little sapwood.


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## Lord Nibbo (2 Nov 2008)

Finished all but for handles on the drawers  I might even leave them off as the drawers can easily be opened using the lower edge. This first pic was taken using a flash although it shows up the finish well (note the can of lubricating wax reflection) it dosen't represent the true colours of the table. 




Taken with no flash this pic does represent the colours well. The finish was two coats of cellulose sanding sealer knocked back with 0000 grade wire wool then two coats of danish oil each one knocked back again with wire wool, a third and final coat of danish oil as shown in the pic. A final touch will be a coat of Black Bison Paste wax in a day or two.





*The final pic.*

Many thanks for all the critique I hope you enjoyed the journey of this WIP


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## Paul Chapman (2 Nov 2008)

That's a cracker, Your Lordship =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeG. (2 Nov 2008)

Lovely work.......I have thoroughly enjoyed following this thread. Well done, and thanks for posting so thoroughly. 

I normally dislike walnut in large areas.......a bit 1970's for me, somehow, but you have managed to make this transcend that look. I like the fact that you have a distinctive style, but I have to say that I am not a big fan of the flat board look for legs. The top, however, is beautiful.

Mike


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## Woodmagnet (2 Nov 2008)

8)


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## woodbloke (2 Nov 2008)

Your Lordship - nice piece. When you push one drawer in, do the other two pop out? - Rob


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## wizer (2 Nov 2008)

Smashing! =D>


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## Lord Nibbo (2 Nov 2008)

woodbloke":2fl0e84b said:


> Your Lordship - nice piece. When you push one drawer in, do the other two pop out? - Rob



:lol: :lol: I'll have to give it a try :lol:


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## mailee (2 Nov 2008)

Now that really is a nice piece your Lordship. Worth waiting for.


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## Ironballs (2 Nov 2008)

Excellent, very well done and I assume you are justifiably proud


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## Mr Ed (2 Nov 2008)

Very nice piece. In fact Mrs. Sutton just looked over my shoulder and she likes it too, so 2 votes from here!  

Cheers, Ed


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## Pinocchio (5 Nov 2008)

Out of interest where do you purchase your wood, and whats the expected cost of a table like this to build, materials only! Just I am new to woodworking and want to try and build a few bits myself, but want to knwo where to get decent wood at decent prices etc.

Sorry forgot to mention, think the stuff you have built is awesome!


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## motownmartin (5 Nov 2008)

Another well made piece of furniture LN, its about time I had a bash and threads like this will inspire me.


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## Imperial (5 Nov 2008)

A well thought out and creatively crafted piece of work! plus all the photos of how to etc. 
Thanks for all the effort involved


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## shim20 (5 Nov 2008)

very nice, good job u done there


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