# Look what the postman brought.



## mr (18 May 2006)

Well it wasn't the postman but one of his mates with a van, still...







First impressions before it touches any wood; 
suprised by how light it is, it seems lighter than my Record 4 1/2 though that may be due to the different balance or weight distribution. The sole appears to have machining marks at toe and heel, there are three distinct areas on it which I thought a little strange. The tote also has what appears to be a strange wee blob of resin embedded in it. on the back. Looks a bit odd but has been smoothed to the contour of the rest of the tote and is unnoticeable to the touch. Out of the box the tote was loose but a couple of turns on the screws and it seems secure, wonder if it will work loose again over time. Tightening those tote screws I felt horribly aware that the brass heads were possibly susceptible to damage from poor fitting screwdriver tips - is that the case or am I worrying too much. The A2 blade is a nice thick chunk of steel, havent managed to cut myself on it as yet but theres time yet I guess. I imagine that as always it should meet the waterstones before use in any case. Unfortunately it's now going to sit in its box until the weekend in any case - possibly longer  
Mike.


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## gidon (18 May 2006)

Enjoy! It's a lovely plane and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. I didn't have a problem with a loose tote, but I do have machining marks - looks like where it's been held for some operation. And at least they're nice and central! I'm surprised you find it lightweight - I love its (hefty) weight.
Cheers
Gidon


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## dchenard (18 May 2006)

It is a wonderful plane, the best I've ever tried...

I assume your impression of lightness comes from the plane's fantastic balance, because it still weighs in at near 6 lbs...

Did you get a high angle blade? With it you'll be able to plane anything that's thrown at you...

DC


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## mr (18 May 2006)

Im pretty sure the "lightness" is to do with the way the jack is balanced against the way the Record is. I havent weighed them but obviously the 4 1/2 cant weigh more than this one. So it must be in the design, it just feels "right". Chances are that when I get down to the basement with it and actually compare the weight of the two Ill discover that its not as light as it feels. The blade is the standard angle, I probably should have swapped it out for the high angle but there you go, didnt think of it to be honest. 
Is there really a whole day to go before the weekend? /me tuts.


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## syntec4 (18 May 2006)

Cor - Very Nice. Let us know how you get on, I would love to own one. Maybe I will after you're review :wink: 

Lee.


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## mr (19 May 2006)

My review? I wouldnt presume to better the review already lurking herein. 
Cheers Mike


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## builderchad (19 May 2006)

Nice one Mike, I know you'll love it. I have the BU Jack and Smoother and love them both. I put the BUS blade which is 38 degrees into the Jack and found I get on a lot better with it for a lot of stuff. I also bought the 50 degree blade and that lives in the BUS most the time now. Both planes shunt along very nicely even the BUS with an attack angle of 68 degrees.

Both planes arrived with loose totes and I suspect they are shipped like that to avoid stressing the soul while the wood changes to adapt to its new environment - just a complete novice guess though so I'm probably way off. There is a Veritas chap who is a member of this fourm who will no doubt enlighten us.


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## Alf (19 May 2006)

mr":28pqs0x8 said:


> My review? I wouldnt presume to better the review already lurking herein.


Aww, go on, Mike. Another viewpoint can only be a Good Thing.

I believe the totes are left loose so you can easily, and immediately, remove them to facilitate replacement with something nicer...  :wink:

Duckin' and runnin' before Rob gets here, Alf


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## Philly (19 May 2006)

Nice one, Mike!
I know you'll like this one-let us know how you get on.
Philly


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## mr (19 May 2006)

Philly - certainly will, particularly once this next project gets underway, Ill be visitng your chair wips and bending your ear over how you achieved the finish  That's if the wood ever arrives.

Am wondering how close I can get to the coarse medium fine concept with this one weapon, not that close I suspect, Im certainly not about to try putting a camber on this blade, so as mentioned elsewhere Im having a go at making a scrub to assault the wood with before moving to the jack. 



> Aww, go on, Mike. Another viewpoint can only be a Good Thing.


Hmmm ok then, Ill have a go but it may never see the light of day. I dont have the odd lump of this that or the other sat around to play with so at the moment it can only be an impressionistic kind of thing. 

Cheers Mike

oops forgot to ask, and should have asked up top of this thread - Ive become aware that nothing works out of the box  what should I be doing to this blade other than cleaning the anti rust gunk off prior to first use? 
I imagine a trip to the waterstones (meaning I'll probably end up with a duller blade than I start with - don't think it'll fit in my stanley sharpening guide therefore potential mess). Anything else?


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## Ian Dalziel (19 May 2006)

Nice one mike...enjoy...the more reviews the better.

Has anyone made different handles for their LV's yet...if so any piccys.

I like to push slightly down and then forward ...with the LV's i have i seem to push straight and have to exert that little bit more for a downward push....I'm probobly needing to play with the blades as well though.

Also most peole know how to check a sole for flatness how do others check their bed...ie clock it on a surface table or any other simpler method used.

I firmly beleive in modifying a tool to suit my hands and my style.....just wondering if anyone else does this or do they just assume the manufacturers get the handles right to suit everyone and it works straight out the box.......possibly another thread starter.

Ian

coat


ducking and running after last weeks thread.


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## mr (19 May 2006)

Ian Dalziel":3m7ykr4q said:


> Has anyone made different handles for their LV's yet...if so any piccys.
> .



Hi Ian 
I believe Alf made a new tote for one of hers, and I seem to recall seeing pics of it as well but I cant find them at the moment. I haven't ever modified a tool as yet though personally I wouldnt have anything against it if I thought I could improve it. (little chance of that though probably given my skill levels). 

Given that nothing seems to work out of the box, Im wondering whether this is because everyone likes to at least feel that they have made some kind of modification even if that's only honing the blade. Probably not. Ive mentioned elsewhere that I'm yet to find anything that works out of the box and that seems to be the norm. Personally I think its pretty poor of manufacturers to release kit that doesnt, I don't see why it should be the norm, by all means people should feel free to have at it and improve things but why should people have to do what amounts to remedial work in the first place. 

Oh and there's no need to duck and run!  
Cheers Mike


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## Alf (19 May 2006)

My tote fun 'n' games, but I want to try this method next.

Cheers, Alf


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## mr (19 May 2006)

I knew Id seen that somewhere - daft that I didnt think to look at the CornishWorkshop


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## dedee (19 May 2006)

Ian, thanks for calling it a handle. I've never quite understood why the rear handle of a plane is called a tote. Anyone able to explain? 

Andy


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## Ian Dalziel (19 May 2006)

Alf....you need to get out more....
I liked both ideas....
you seem to be on every woodwork forum around the world......I never even new there was an australian forum.

thanks for the linkys......any others done i'd like to see a modified LN and has anyone modified their LN adjusters yet to reduce the backlash

I


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## Philly (19 May 2006)

Mike
I find the Veritas stuff needs minimal clean-up. A wipe over to remove any oil/grease, a hone of the blade and you're off! You can spend more time on the blade later (doing the back, etc). But that should be all you need to make nice shavings.
The handles on the Veritas stuff-some people like, some people hate, but most users find they soon become accustomed to the shape/angle. I find they feel more natural if your workbench is a little higher than recommended (I have mine so the top is level with my wrist when I hang my arms by my side.) If you raise your bench 3 inches or so it makes them feel much more natural. (Thanks to Waka for letting me try out his raised-bench :wink: )
As to the "Coarse, Medium, Fine", you can open the mouth in seconds for a coarse cut. It has a reasonable amount of length so is handy for the medium and can smooth as well as the best smoothers in the world, so your o.k. there. It's only the curved blade thing thats a problem. Maybe a spare blade would handy-you could swap it in, open the mouth and voila?
Hope this has been of use,
Philly


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## mr (19 May 2006)

Thanks again Philly , what you say about the coarse medium fine is as I thought may be the case, Ive been eyeing up the LV cambered blades as well though Im going to have a go at grinding one of my landrover blade blanks (theres a reason for calling them this) into a curve first. Theres nowt on telly tonight. I may have to comandeer the tv for a bit of messrs Cosman & Schwartz prior to the weekend. 
Mike


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## Philly (19 May 2006)

Mike
Good idea-and I won't ask about the name :wink: 
Don't forget that coarse means COARSE! That Mr Cosman does namby about with his ultra sharp scrub. :lol: 
Have a good weekend,
Philly


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## mr (19 May 2006)

Philly":25wqfo6b said:


> Mike
> Good idea-and I won't ask about the name :wink:
> Don't forget that coarse means COARSE! That Mr Cosman does namby about with his ultra sharp scrub. :lol:
> Have a good weekend,
> Philly



The name, I know you didnt ask but anyway they're made from MK2 Landrover leaf springs As for coarse , I did notice the perspective gap and was particularly encouraged that Chris Schwarz says B*@@*#s to sole flatness for a coarse tool.


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## Alf (20 May 2006)

dedee":3bhpy9tt said:


> Ian, thanks for calling it a handle. I've never quite understood why the rear handle of a plane is called a tote. Anyone able to explain?


I fear it's a 'Murricanism I've fallen into. Only a matter of time before I start calling a cap iron a chip breaker I suppose.  Why tote though? Dunno; 'cos you tote the thing around using it?



Ian Dalziel":3bhpy9tt said:


> Alf....you need to get out more....


Tell me something we don't already know...  :lol: 

I think it'd be nigh on impossible to put a coarse enough camber on the BUPP to satisfy Chris' notion of coarse (8" camber for _bevel down_ iirc). I daresay someone could work out what that'd need to be increased to to allow for the low bedding angle. You can see how it compares to a scrub curve here (Blogger won't let me do a direct image link, sorry); dat dere is a pretty extreme camber.

Cheers, Alf


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## Nick W (20 May 2006)

There is one problem I have just come across with this plane, and presumably it affects all LV planes, and that is the little screws to stop the business end of the blade from moving sideways. If you nip them up just so to the blade, because they have a nice flat end they, stop the blade from twisting :shock: (as normally achieved by moving the adjuster sideways). Mr Lee, sir, why aren't the ends of these screws domed?


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## Alf (20 May 2006)

You're supposed to take 'em back about 1/8 of a turn and then it's not a problem. I had to have the patient "the screws aren't there to hold the blade" explanation from Rob right after my first review. 

Cheers, Alf


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## Nick W (20 May 2006)

But they are there to stop the blade moving sideways - if they don't touch the blade then they won't do that. Anyway, doming the screws would be an easy mod for LV to make surely.


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## Philly (20 May 2006)

Nick
I had a chat with Rob about this at the Tools show, last year-he said the screws are there as a kind of pivot point for the blade adjuster mechanism. 
Hope this helps
Philly


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## Ian Dalziel (20 May 2006)

Nick,
On some infills they have these as well.....they are for keeping the blade central 'within reason' the infills use rivets so are unadjustable. they are not intended to lock the blade merely keeping the blade in the centre of the plane body.
If its locked up tight then hunting around for allen keys etc is a pia to slacken for blade removal hence its tightened then backed off its also affords you some lateral blade movement. 
I see what you are saying with the domed headed grub screws but getting them in bulk might not be that simple as these are normally serrated tipped for locking onto shafts etc 
trying to get to a happy medium isnt easy.  

I


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 May 2006)

> Has anyone made different handles for their LV's yet...if so any piccys.
> 
> I like to push slightly down and then forward ...with the LV's i have i seem to push straight and have to exert that little bit more for a downward push....



Ian 

I raised and discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the LV tote in my review of the BUS - accords exactly with your observation above. 

http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/dCohen/LVbevelUpSmoother/index.asp

From what I could establish in discussion with Rob Lee, the vertical LV tote was designed with high, modern benches in mind. This can work well IF the plane is heavy and its weight is sufficient to produce sufficient downforce. For example, the tote works with the BUS and the BUJ, while the light LAS needs more downforce via a Stanley-type tote. 

My next project, after completing the review of Philip Marcow's smoother, is to test out this theory: the relationship between workbench height (relative to the woodworkers' height) and tote angle. 

Incidentally Alf, with reference to the link to the Aussie forum you posted, Ian did send me the tote he made. It is a beauty and will be included in the project. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Philly (20 May 2006)

Derek
Looking forward to your "workbench Height" study \/ 
Cheers
Philly


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## Alf (20 May 2006)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > Has anyone made different handles for their LV's yet...if so any piccys.
> >
> > I like to push slightly down and then forward ...with the LV's i have i seem to push straight and have to exert that little bit more for a downward push....
> 
> ...


Sheesh, don't you chaps ever read old reviews...? :wink:



On Mon Jun 21 said:


> 2004[/i] 10:42 am Alf":2p4esj5s]What I _did_ notice was the angle of the handle; I compared an ordinary Stanley and an L-N with it, and the Veritas is noticeably more upright. Now my workbench height is a traditional one, optimised for using planes, and is thus is set up for a pushing along _and_ down movement, just as most planes are. The L-V seems to be geared to just a pushing along movement, and on a higher workbench too.



Cheers, Alf

Slightly shocked to find that was nearly two years ago. Yikes. :shock:


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 May 2006)

> Sheesh, don't you chaps ever read old reviews...?



Hi Alf

Recognition is in order. Although we (you, Ian, and I) have separately come to the same conclusions, you without a doubt suggested it first. 

A couple of friends visited today and did some planing with the BUS. One has a bench that is much higher than mine. Without any prior discussion, he remarked that it felt awkward until he stopped trying to push it downward and instead pushed forwards.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Ian Dalziel (20 May 2006)

old reviews Alf....apologies never read them but i will  :shock:

i get bored too quickly reading long reviews so i sometimes tend to skip parts..sorry 

Derek

I like the sound of different workbench heights but i am just a bit wary of lifting mine at present as it weighs a lot and not something i like to see a bench with a couple of boards under it........i need it to look perfect or it gets thrown out ....dont know if i can cope with that.... :shock: 

For me the option of changing bench heights for different planes is not really an option so i'll go with the different handle designs....lets call them handles as newbies dont know what were on about with totes. I need my bench solid on a flat floor not balanced on height raising blocks

I like my LV planes just my styles maybe a bit different of working wood but i'm not complaining about the plane as i'll just change it to suit me. besides i far prefer a tool that fits my hand than someones in the LV design shop but 
Rob please dont take it wrong.
i am just being honest

love the router plane by the way the knobs are fine 

Ian

pegs broke coats gone


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## Alf (21 May 2006)

I'm sure I no more posted my quote to claim recognition than you did in posting your review link, Derek. I imagine someone at Veritas, or an early purchaser, beat us all to the thought.

Cheers, Alf


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