# W.I.P. - Fretless Bass Guitar



## Simo (23 Mar 2016)

I thought I'd post a work in progress thread to show the process of building one of my bass guitars. This one was started a couple of months back, so apologies for the amount of photos.


This will be a 33'' scale fretless, 5 string, 'piezo only' bass, fitted with a Hipshot bridge loaded with GraphTech Ghost saddles. The body wood is Black Walnut, with a Black Limba bookmatched top, Maple neck, and Ebony fingerboard. Something along these lines..







I already have a neck blank ready for this bass, so the first job to do is to plane the faces of the Black Walnut body blanks, and thickness them to the correct size. The pieces are then jointed by hand and glued together.
















Once the glue has fully cured and the blank has had a final pass through the drum sander, I use a clear acrylic template to position the layout of the body shape. Then it's cut out on the bandsaw, leaving just a couple of millimetres to trim off with the router.











The Black Limba top is jointed and joined together using the 'tape tent' method. Once the glue is dry, it's sanded with a random orbit sander to remove the course drum sander marks.
















After trimming the body outline on the pin router, I also route out the chamber, which is then sealed with a coat of finish.






The top, along with a piece of black veneer, are attached to the Walnut body using the vacuum bag.






After selecting a piece of Ebony for the fingerboard, I hold it down to my workbench using a couple of bench dogs and a small wedge to lock it in place. Then it's time to plane it flat, ready for slotting.


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## Simo (23 Mar 2016)

After the top had been glued on, it was trimmed flush and then the edges of the body were sanded smooth using a bobbin sander, along with some hand sanding.






The controls on this bass will be very simple, just a volume control and a mini toggle switch, to change between the mid/dark tone settings on the GraphTech preamp. I drill the holes first, then route out the control cavity on the rear of the body.






Next, I route a 1/2'' roundover on the back, and a bevel on the front.






The 'S' sound hole is also routed out, using a small spiral cutter to ensure a clean cut. The cutter can't get right into the corners, so I finish it by hand, using scalpel to carve out the shape, followed by a file, and then sandpaper.
















The last job until the neck is ready, is to drill the holes/recesses for the jack socket, strap buttons, and neck ferrules.


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## n0legs (23 Mar 2016)

More please =D>


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## gregmcateer (23 Mar 2016)

Yes indeedy!!

That is simply wonderful - I know bo-diddly about guitars (or music at all for that matter!) - but I do know when something looks like a work-of-art in the making. 

Brilliant

Keep up the good work, S.

Greg


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## AJB Temple (23 Mar 2016)

Excellent work. Thank you for sharing. As a matter of interest are you making speculatively for sale or to order?


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## Simo (23 Mar 2016)

Cheers guys, I'll have some more updates shortly 



AJB Temple":11yns7tp said:


> Excellent work. Thank you for sharing. As a matter of interest are you making speculatively for sale or to order?



At this point, I don't do anything to order. I have done some commissioned work in the past, but I prefer to build what I want, and then offer it for sale when it's complete.. providing I'm happy with the finished product.


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## AJB Temple (23 Mar 2016)

Interesting. I have been making electric guitars (and some acoustics too) for a good few years (though hardly ever now - it was always only a hobby) but have never made anything on spec (always to order for friends and fellow musicians) and have never made a bass instrument as I find bass players are much less focussed on (or maybe willing to pay for) more exotic instruments than guitarists (who have been "educated by the PRS 10 top marketing et al). I certainly admire the quality of your work and shall be interested to see the finished product. It is very nice to see elegantly shaped work where the electrics go: so often the hidden areas lack quality.


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## Bm101 (23 Mar 2016)

Wonderful work, fascinating post. I love seeing well documented threads like this. Many thanks. It's amazing what you can learn from and be motivated by from what might seem like a 'simple stuff' to those that know. Even from the basic picture of the vacuum bags I've heard about but not come close to using I've learnt something. Cheers. As Nolegs says, more please. Excellent stuff.


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## KevB (23 Mar 2016)

Wow amazing looking wood and outstanding work


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## cutting42 (24 Mar 2016)

I agree with other posts, a great project. 

I am a bass player and it looks wonderful, I would love to play it to see if it sounds as good as it looks. I am also interested in your neck construction methods as well.

I want to make a bass for myself but the neck is the tricky bit so I am interested how you make them. I am also interested in making a Stick upright bass as well.


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## bugbear (24 Mar 2016)

I appreciate that the chamber, and sound hole, are quite literally a signature feature, but surely the chamber
is too small to resonate usefully at such low frequencies, and the sound hole leaves
"points" supported by vulnerable short grain?

BugBear


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## AJB Temple (24 Mar 2016)

Cutting 42: making a neck is not as difficult as you might think especially if you are going fretless. Setting frets though requires accuracy.


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## Simo (24 Mar 2016)

bugbear":1y2ivlq1 said:


> I appreciate that the chamber, and sound hole, are quite literally a signature feature, but surely the chamber
> is too small to resonate usefully at such low frequencies, and the sound hole leaves
> "points" supported by vulnerable short grain?
> 
> BugBear



Although in my experience, chambering does have some affect on the attack/decay of the note, my main objective when chambering an electric instrument, is simply weight reduction, not to manipulate the tone or resonance.

You're correct about the sound hole, I ran into this problem the first time I built one similar to this design #-o Luckily the top wood was fairly thick on that build, so breaking the wood would require a lot of pressure.. but it did flex, if pushed hard enough. My solution was to incorporate two small supports in the design of the chamber (they're visible in the pic below), these are positioned directly under the 'wings' of the sound hole. All the basses I've built with these in place, have been solid as a rock.


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## cutting42 (24 Mar 2016)

AJB Temple":iwkmkkp0 said:


> Cutting 42: making a neck is not as difficult as you might think especially if you are going fretless. Setting frets though requires accuracy.



I have a 4 string fretless already but a 5 fretless is on the cards. What I really need currently is a 4 string fretted but speed might determine a purchase rather than a make.

Did you make the template as well?


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## bugbear (24 Mar 2016)

Simo":3l7pkuom said:


> You're correct about the sound hole, I ran into this problem the first time I built one similar to this design #-o Luckily the top wood was fairly thick on that build, so breaking the wood would require a lot of pressure.. but it did flex, if pushed hard enough. My solution was to incorporate two small supports in the design of the chamber (they're visible in the pic below), these are positioned directly under the 'wings' of the sound hole. All the basses I've built with these in place, have been solid as a rock.



Oh, very good!

BugBear


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## Trigs (26 Mar 2016)

Cracking build, look forward to seeing the end result


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## Claymore (28 Mar 2016)

............


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## stevenw1963 (29 Mar 2016)

Now that is something to admire and aspire to do to.
I wouldn't mind making my own bass


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## Simo (31 Mar 2016)

Thanks for all the positive comments, much appreciated. I've had a lot time out of the workshop lately, so not a massive amount of updates.. but here's a few pictures showing how I line the fingerboard with veneer.

First, the Ebony is slotted by hand.. in this case for 22 fret positions (33'' scale). I use a fret slotting jig from Stew Mac, which I've modified to accommodate wider bass fretboards. I've also fitted a couple of toggle clamps, which slide along a piece of track, to hold the wood firmly in place while sawing. 






Previously, I've used CA glue to fit the veneers, but after developing a sensitivity to CA (cold like symptoms a few hours after use :x), I've switched to using standard Titebond. I use some a small needle bottle to help apply the glue into the slot, with a minimum amount of mess.






In the past I've simply held the veneer in the slot for a few seconds, while the CA glue dries. Obviously the Titebond needs a little longer to cure, so my solution is to slice up a mountain bike inner tube.. the rubber bands are a perfect size and elasticity to hold the veneer in the slot. I apply a bead of glue, fit the veneer into the slot, slide it a little from side to side to spread the glue, I then hook the rubber band over one end, stretch it underneath and fasten it to the opposite end, before wiping away the glue squeeze out.











Once the glue has dried, I nip off the ends using my fret cutters, and then carefully slice off the veneer with a sharp chisel until they're flush...
















...a quick sand, and it's ready to go.


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## AES (3 Apr 2016)

Somehow I missed the beginning of this but have now read it all with great interest.

Like an earlier poster I know nothing whatever about guitars (and precious little about music except that I like about 99% of all genre), but like everyone else I found your write up fascinating and your pix excellent.

As the man said "more please" and thanks for taking all that trouble with posting.

=D> 

AES


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## Simo (22 Apr 2016)

Sorry for the lack of updates, I've had a lot of time away from the workbench lately. Anyway, here's a brief update.. more on the way shortly. 

The neck is made from 3 pieces of Maple, with black veneers laminated in between. The headstock is angled (scarf joint), and has Ebony veneers on both sides. 







I use some masking tape to make the centre lines easier to line up, then after fitting some alignment pins underneath the fingerboard, it's glued on and left to cure, before being planed flush.
















The tuner holes have been drilled, and it's starting to look like a neck (hammer)


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## AJB Temple (22 Apr 2016)

Nice work indeed. Despite being fretless, you use markers to show the positions, which surprised me a bit. Is that customer demand or just aesthetic preference? It got me wondering if luthiers ever make scalloped bass fingerboards (as in Ritchie Blackmore guitars for example, which are fretted but heavily scalloped)?Clearly wear would be an issue but positioning would be aided a lot if the scallops were subtle. 

What neck back shape do you use? It looks like a D shape? Does it work using different profiles for bass instruments?


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## Simo (22 Apr 2016)

AJB Temple":3tinp0lr said:


> Nice work indeed. Despite being fretless, you use markers to show the positions, which surprised me a bit. Is that customer demand or just aesthetic preference? It got me wondering if luthiers ever make scalloped bass fingerboards (as in Ritchie Blackmore guitars for example, which are fretted but heavily scalloped)?Clearly wear would be an issue but positioning would be aided a lot if the scallops were subtle.
> 
> What neck back shape do you use? It looks like a D shape? Does it work using different profiles for bass instruments?



The lined vs unlined fingerboard is down to personal preference. Some players like the look of a plain board, others prefer having lines as a guide to help them play in tune. The idea behind scalloping is to prevent the finger tips making contact with the fretboard, the reduced friction makes bending and vibrato easier. On a fretless instrument, the note is ''fretted'' on the actual line of the fret position, therefore having scallops in between would serve no purpose.. it would also make it impossible to slide notes up and down the neck, which is a big part of the fretless playing style.

I carve the necks by hand (I'll cover this in the next update) with a spokeshave and some rasps. I do have specific thickness's that I use, so I make frequent checks with a digital calliper, along with a straight edge to make sure I'm not carving out any dips, but apart from that I don't use any templates or guides for the actual shape.. other than my hands.


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## n0legs (22 Apr 2016)

Keep it coming Simo, loving this WIP =D>


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## bugbear (23 Apr 2016)

Simo":24u72gov said:


> I carve the necks by hand (I'll cover this in the next update) with a spokeshave and some rasps. I do have specific thickness's that I use, so I make frequent checks with a digital calliper, along with a straight edge to make sure I'm not carving out any dips, but apart from that I don't use any templates or guides for the actual shape.. other than my hands.



I assume you don't need the (full) accuracy of a digital caliper for this job - my personal preference is a mechanical dial caliper, which is accurate "enough", and I find easier to read quickly.

BugBear


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## Simo (23 Apr 2016)

bugbear":2fktxjam said:


> Simo":2fktxjam said:
> 
> 
> > I carve the necks by hand (I'll cover this in the next update) with a spokeshave and some rasps. I do have specific thickness's that I use, so I make frequent checks with a digital calliper, along with a straight edge to make sure I'm not carving out any dips, but apart from that I don't use any templates or guides for the actual shape.. other than my hands.
> ...



Absolutely, a dial or vernier caliper would work just as well.


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## Simo (23 Apr 2016)

I installed the side dot inlays earlier today. The inlay material I'm using for this bass is Luminlay (www.luminlay.com), which is a type of luminous plastic that glows brightly when charged under UV light for just a few seconds.. great for dark stages. The version I'm using has a black plastic outer, which gives a nice contrast against the Maple, and makes them stand out a bit more in daylight conditions

I like the look of the inlay positioned right on the join of the neck and fingerboard.. the only downside to this, is that if you drill one slightly off, it's even more noticeable (don't ask me how I know that), so you need to take care marking the holes.






A good quality drill bit makes life easier, especially when drilling through two different types of wood in one hole (I use the HSS Professional bits made by Fisch).






The Luminlay material is fitted with a few drops of CA glue, and then filed flush with an Iwasaki carvers file.


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## MattRoberts (24 Apr 2016)

Beautiful work, and I echo the thanks for taking us through it with such great pics and descriptions


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## Baldhead (24 Apr 2016)

Looking forward to seeing the finished article. One day I too hope to make my own guitar, threads like this help spur me on.
Thanks
Stew


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## stewart (24 Apr 2016)

Fantastic workmanship - a great WIP - really enjoying this one!
Thanks


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## AES (24 Apr 2016)

Really great work (and posting), thanks for continuing your WIP.

Just as a matter of interest (I know nothing about musical instruments or Luthiers), where is this guitar going? Has someone pre-ordered it (anyone famous??); are you making it purely on spec to sell; or is it "just" for yourself? Don't want to get into your commercial confidentiality though, so if you'd rather not answer that, no problem.

I assume that to be a successful Luthier, even on a hobby basis, but also from some of your comments posted earlier, one needs to be able to play the subject instrument at least "just a bit" to have any success as a Luthier?

I hope your answer to the last Q is yes, 'cos I'm mainly interested in making toys and these days I'm playing nearly all the time!! 

Lovely work, thanks.

AES


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## Simo (24 Apr 2016)

AES":2v6ofyd1 said:


> Really great work (and posting), thanks for continuing your WIP.
> 
> Just as a matter of interest (I know nothing about musical instruments or Luthiers), where is this guitar going? Has someone pre-ordered it (anyone famous??); are you making it purely on spec to sell; or is it "just" for yourself? Don't want to get into your commercial confidentiality though, so if you'd rather not answer that, no problem.
> 
> ...



This is being built to my own spec and then offered for sale, assuming that I'm happy with how it turns out. No famous customers I'm afraid :lol: 

I certainly don't think you have to be a virtuoso player to be able to build a good instrument, although I can't imagine building a guitar/bass without at least some playing experience.. having said that, Leo Fender didn't play guitar, and he seemed to do OK out of it.

I'm actually a guitarist, not a bass player (I just prefer designing and building basses). I can/do play bass (just not very well :wink: ), and although it's not my main instrument, I feel like I have enough understanding of what goes into making a good bass guitar.


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## AES (24 Apr 2016)

OK, thanks Simo. Just for my interest. BTW, even I've heard of Fender (though I must confess I didn't know his first name was Leo).

If the instruments sounds & plays as good as it looks I'm sure you'll find potential customer/s.

AES


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## Simo (26 Apr 2016)

I'm busy working on various other things this week, but I did get chance to route the neck pocket for this bass today..


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## Alikingravi (5 May 2016)

Simply amazing, clean and beautiful! I also hope to build a guitar one day.


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## markblue777 (6 May 2016)

Gorgeous!. Some nice work there, keep the photos up.
Cheers
Mark


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## bugbear (6 May 2016)

Nice Marples transitional plane too!

BugBear


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## Simo (11 May 2016)

The next step is to radius the fingerboard and shape the neck. I begin by using a hand plane to rough out the radius (20''), and then switch to a sanding block. Radius sanding wide Ebony fretboards can be hard work.. attaching plane handles to the radius block provides a better grip, and helps speed things up.











Next, the threaded inserts are fitted, and I'm then ready to make a start on the shaping process. To begin, the heel, and the area behind the nut are roughly carved out, using a Microplane rasp, and a small Iwasaki carving file. The shaft of the neck is then shaped with a spokeshave, followed by a Shinto saw rasp.


























I down tools once I get close to the final thickness, in order complete work on the fingerboard. As shown earlier, the fingerboard has been sanded flat with a radius block, but there's an extra step to ensure a really good setup.

Without getting too technical.. the radius block produces a cylindrical surface, so if you place a straightedge on the center line, it will be flat. However, the width of a neck tapers along it's length, therefore if you tilt the straightedge at a slight angle (to mimic the path of the outer strings), you'll see that there's a high spot in the center. This can potentially cause the outer strings to buzz in the middle of the neck, as if the neck had a slight back bow.

Using a levelling beam, I sand along the paths of the strings (blending in the surface in between them). When completed, each string will have a perfectly flat surface underneath it, along the entire length of the neck.






With the fingerboard now at it's final thickness, I can finish sanding the neck..


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## Simo (11 May 2016)

bugbear":ib26pg27 said:


> Nice Marples transitional plane too!



Yeah, it's a great little plane. The handle is a bit of a tight fit, even with my small hands, but it's very nice to use.


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## BearTricks (12 May 2016)

Absolutely amazing.

I have a 10 or so year old Gibson stored away. Apparently I got lucky and bought a particularly good model that has appreciated in value. I have a feeling I might have to refinish it, however, so it's good to know there are some people on here who are in to building guitars.


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## cutting42 (12 May 2016)

Simo":2nj8gvvx said:


> The next step is to radius the fingerboard and shape the neck. I begin by using a hand plane to rough out the radius (20''), and then switch to a sanding block. Radius sanding wide Ebony fretboards can be hard work.. attaching plane handles to the radius block provides a better grip, and helps speed things up.
> 
> Next, the threaded inserts are fitted, and I'm then ready to make a start on the shaping process. To begin, the heel, and the area behind the nut are roughly carved out, using a Microplane rasp, and a small Iwasaki carving file. The shaft of the neck is then shaped with a spokeshave, followed by a Shinto saw rasp.
> 
> ...



Beautiful work Simo, especially the detail on the neck. The neck would be perfect if it didn't have the markers (a personal preference) ;-)

I am seriously tempted to start my own. I need a new 4 string fretted and a 5 string fretless.


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## bugbear (12 May 2016)

Simo":3rc25q9f said:


> Without getting too technical.. the radius block produces a cylindrical surface, so if you place a straightedge on the center line, it will be flat. However, the width of a neck tapers along it's length



So you _want_ a cone but the tool _generates_ a cylinder.

On consideration, surely even a cylindrical parallel fretboard would buzz, if bent far enough. Only a flat fretboard has zero buzz.

It's just that, for a tapered fretboard, conical is better than cylindrical (but worse than flat), for buzzing issues.

(factors other than buzz drive fretboard shape of course; guitars are all about compromise)

BugBear


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## Simo (12 May 2016)

bugbear":h5x61ojn said:


> Simo":h5x61ojn said:
> 
> 
> > Without getting too technical.. the radius block produces a cylindrical surface, so if you place a straightedge on the center line, it will be flat. However, the width of a neck tapers along it's length
> ...



It's not really a cone as such, it's actually a slight hourglass shape. The best explanation I've ever come across, is from Bruce Johnston over on the Talkbass forum: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/even-f ... t-13024842


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## bugbear (12 May 2016)

Simo":2l2siuuu said:


> bugbear":2l2siuuu said:
> 
> 
> > Simo":2l2siuuu said:
> ...



Ah - I'd assumed that when using your sanding straightedge, you also used it to "correct" (make proportionate) the radius at the nut; I didn't realise you retained the big radius at the nut.

You're quite right; that certainly won't be a cone.  

BugBear


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## Simo (28 Sep 2016)

Unfortunately, this build was delayed during the summer.. but as last, it's now time to complete the final sanding and finishing work. The last job on the body is to chisel out a shallow recess where the bridge will be placed. This recess will allow the piezo saddle wires to move freely when the saddles are adjusted.







Then it's time for sanding.. lots of sanding (followed by more sanding).






To finish the body I'm using a polyurethane based varnish, which I thin down about 50%, and apply with a cloth.






The neck is finished using a varnish/oil blend. It provides less protection than using just varnish, but it provides a superior feeling neck.






In between applying coats of finish, I make a truss rod cover from an offcut of Black Limba. After heating the branding iron up with a small blow torch, I brand a few logos onto the wood, and select the best one to cut and shape into a truss rod cover.











As the wood for the cover is fairly thin, I glue on a small brace to help keep it flat. The Maple brace is carved so that it sits inside the truss rod access slot when fitted to the headstock.






Back to the body.. the varnish has been left over a week to dry fully, and can now be rubbed out using some 0000 wire wool. I use a product called Wool Lube to lubricate the wire wood. I like to mix it with a little water and apply a small amount from a bottle as needed. Lubricating the wire wool makes a big difference, and gives a much smoother finish compared to using it dry.






Finally, I apply a coat of Renaissance Wax to the body.


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## OscarG (11 Aug 2017)

I know this is an old thread, but really enjoyed reading that, thanks for sharing!

Beautiful work.


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## Benchwayze (14 Apr 2018)

This is beautiful work Simo. Being fretless, I suppose it could be used for playing Quarter-tone music! It's a pity you don't make six string guitars though (Or probably you can?) I am saving my pennies for a short-scale Gibson Byrdland, and it appears it might be less expensive, and a better option anyway, to have one built.

All the best.

John


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## sunnybob (14 Apr 2018)

I built a fretless guitar, I also left off 5 strings.

fully electrified.


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## Simo (14 Apr 2018)

Benchwayze":2cp5wia5 said:


> This is beautiful work Simo. Being fretless, I suppose it could be used for playing Quarter-tone music! It's a pity you don't make six string guitars though (Or probably you can?) I am saving my pennies for a short-scale Gibson Byrdland, and it appears it might be less expensive, and a better option anyway, to have one built.
> 
> All the best.
> 
> John



Thanks. I do build 6 string guitars occasionally.. I'm actually a guitarist myself, I just find designing basses more interesting. Here's a guitar I built last year for a friend of mine, in memory of his daughter: https://youtu.be/j3DHFLVXNDI


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## Simo (14 Apr 2018)

It occurred to me that I never posted any photos of the finished bass, so here's a few..


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## AES (14 Apr 2018)

Blimey, IMO that's fantastic work Simo. Also the Youtube slideshow. Thanks for posting.

=D> =D> =D>


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## minotauruk (14 Apr 2018)

Just stunning work, a real craft!! How many hours were involved in making this ?


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## Simo (15 Apr 2018)

minotauruk":1oeabp9y said:


> Just stunning work, a real craft!! How many hours were involved in making this ?



Thanks. I honestly have no idea how many hours I spent on this one, I never count. The woodwork on a solid body guitar is fairly straight forward and quick to do, it's the detail work such as fine sanding, fretting (not an issue on this one!), setup, etc, that can really eat up the hours.


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## Benchwayze (15 Apr 2018)

I am a bit old now to switch to Bass, but if I ever needed bass guitar (Which I can play in a basic fashion; but no Fred Thelonius Baker!) I couldn't ask for much better than that! 

Thanks Simmo
John


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## Co1 (15 Apr 2018)

Ridiculous!! Absolutely stunning work.


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## coupster (16 Apr 2018)

Wow, incredibly impressed with that!


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## coupster (16 Apr 2018)

To quantify my above comment, I used to play bass and would loved to have played that in the band..


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## thetyreman (27 Feb 2021)

I know this is old now but bloody hell that is nice.


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## Trainee neophyte (28 Feb 2021)

thetyreman said:


> I know this is old now but bloody hell that is nice.


Thank you for reviving it - well worth the read. Very pretty piece of wood.

I have a MusicMan lurking in the attic - really ought to get it out and see how it's coping with being ignored.


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## nosuchhounds (16 Mar 2021)

Absolutely stunning. As a long time guitarist and aspiring luthier I'm following this with great interest!


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## baldkev (21 Mar 2021)

Old thread, but wow, thats awesome! At some point ive got to have a go at making a guitar, ive got a lump of spalted beech for it, but I'll have to make a couple from pine first to figure out the issues. 

Great work there!!!


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## MickCheese (21 Mar 2021)

How did I miss this first time around?

That's beautiful. 

Mick


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