# Axminster chucks; Evolution SK114 vs. Clubman SK100...



## tangledfeet (21 Oct 2016)

Just wondering if anyone has an experience of both the Axminster Evolution SK114 and the Clubman SK100..?

I've seen them both but not at the same time, nor do I know anyone that has experience of them both. From what I've seen I'm very impressed with the build quality, precision and smooth action - also the 'gripper' jaws.

Axminster do an SK100 bundle comprising pretty much all the jaws I'd ever need;

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminste...ning-chuck-professional-package-deal-ax936311

But the SK114 does seem to have a reputation for ultimate grip, however would be more of a financial investment; I'm sure my Patriot chuck and jaws would sell for a reasonable sum... and it was my birthday a few days ago!

Thanks!


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## Grahamshed (21 Oct 2016)

You will forget, or get over, the extra cost long before you get over the joys of the evolution...... but that may not be very helpful as I have only used the SK100 a couple of times so cannot really compare other than to say I like the square key better than the cog one.


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## Grahamshed (21 Oct 2016)

As an afterthought, what lathe are you going to use it on ? the evolution would look out of place on a mini lathe.


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## CHJ (21 Oct 2016)

The Evolution at 114mm dia. has a slightly wider jaw operating range, significant if you intend to use Cole Jaws where a 100 mm chuck often leaves you in between optimum reach for the item you want to hold.

Just be aware that the basic Evolution as first engineered has zero rear clearance when fitted to lathe spindle nose so will not fit on some older machines without fouling the headstock and/or rendering the built in Indexing unusable or at least limited, there are alternate design options to overcome this but not for all spindle sizes.


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## tangledfeet (21 Oct 2016)

> As an afterthought, what lathe are you going to use it on ? the evolution would look out of place on a mini lathe.



I've got a Killinger KM1450SE with cast iron legs so the SK114 wouldn't look out of place at all!




> The Evolution at 114mm dia. has a slightly wider jaw operating range, significant if you intend to use Cole Jaws where a 100 mm chuck often leaves you in between optimum reach for the item you want to hold.



That's possibly the most useful bit of information I could have hoped to have been offered; many thanks CHJ! 

Indeed Cole Jaws are on the shopping list, too...


Many thanks, folks.


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## woodpig (21 Oct 2016)

tangledfeet":1vruxpka said:


> > Indeed Cole Jaws are on the shopping list.


Sadly the Axminster button jaws are quite expensive compared to some other makes.


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## bwlossie (21 Oct 2016)

Hi,
I have one of the early SK100's and am rather disappointed with it. As mentioned above, if the chuck key is not exactly upright the gogs jump out. I have quite a few small nicks in the toothed ring where this has happened. No idea if this is a diy repair but postage to send it back to Axminster for repair would be, I think, quite heavy.


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## Sheptonphil (21 Oct 2016)

I've got both, No real comparison in quality between the two. Like comparing Trabant and BMW. 

Save up the extra, cry once and enjoy the quality every time you use it. 

Phil


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## woodpig (21 Oct 2016)

Also have a look at the Record SC4. It can take Sorby and Nova jaws as well. I have both the Clubman and the SC4 and like both of them.

http://www.recordpower.co.uk/product/sc ... Apxeut4WrU


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## Random Orbital Bob (21 Oct 2016)

I have Nova, Dakota and more recently the Evolution 114. The 114 blows the others into a cocked hat!


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## flh801978 (21 Oct 2016)

Tangledfeet 
Whatever's wrong with the patriot? Or what will it not do that the axminster chucks will ?


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## tangledfeet (22 Oct 2016)

flh801978":1ldzrh8n said:


> Tangledfeet
> Whatever's wrong with the patriot? Or what will it not do that the axminster chucks will ?



Nothing specifically but having seen an SK114 I am in no doubt that it is a higher quality chuck and the grip offered by its jaws are superior.



Sheptonphil":1ldzrh8n said:


> I've got both, No real comparison in quality between the two. Like comparing Trabant and BMW.
> 
> 
> Save up the extra, cry once and enjoy the quality every time you use it.
> ...



I genuinely chuckled at the 'cry once'..! :lol: 


Only remaining decision now is whether to go for the reverse locking... one thing that the Patriot does have as standard. Must admit I have actually reverse turned from time to time.

Thanks, all.


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## woodpig (22 Oct 2016)

flh801978":2sjogzwd said:


> Tangledfeet
> Whatever's wrong with the patriot? Or what will it not do that the axminster chucks will ?



I'm guessing maybe he's bought a new lathe and the Patriot won't fit it? I had a clubman on my old lathe but had to sell it and buy a new one as the old one wouldn't fit my new lathe. This is the only problem with some of the Axminster chucks. My current clubman has a fixed M33 thread.


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## CHJ (22 Oct 2016)

woodpig":iw4mxvdz said:


> .......I'm guessing maybe he's bought a new lathe and the Patriot won't fit it? I had a clubman on my old lathe but had to sell it and buy a new one as the old one wouldn't fit my new lathe. This is the only problem with some of the Axminster chucks. My current clubman has a fixed M33 thread.




To me this is the biggest let down with the newer designs in chucks, presumably with an initial desire to cut down on material usage, although marketed as a desire to lighten the construction.

Had new designs been made with ISO back plate compatibility as are 80% + of metal lathe chucks then spindle nose threads would have posed no problem at all, even allowing a chuck to be swapped between differing standards as quick as changing auxiliary jaws. (something I've done when taking my chucks off base.)


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## tangledfeet (22 Oct 2016)

woodpig":10800taz said:


> flh801978":10800taz said:
> 
> 
> > Tangledfeet
> ...



Same Killinger lathe, just planning on selling my Patriot chuck and jaws and moving over to Axminster SK114 and its jaws! Just trying to work out which jaws to order...


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## woodpig (22 Oct 2016)

CHJ":3vdvfvuy said:


> To me this is the biggest let down with the newer designs in chucks, presumably with an initial desire to cut down on material usage, although marketed as a desire to lighten the construction.
> 
> Had new designs been made with ISO back plate compatibility as are 80% + of metal lathe chucks then spindle nose threads would have posed no problem at all, even allowing a chuck to be swapped between differing standards as quick as changing auxiliary jaws. (something I've done when taking my chucks off base.)



Agreed. I think one other "feature" though is that the chuck could run more accurately without an adaptor. I haven't compared my SK100 and SC4 to see which is best but they both run well enough for me.

Selling a perfectly good 100mm chuck to buy a slightly bigger one sounds like a mistake to me. Having more than one chuck is very useful as it's much quicker than jaw swapping. I find even a 100mm chuck gets in the way sometimes so I'm sure the SK114 would be even worse for some jobs. Sadly no one chuck does it all. I'm currently waiting for a collet chuck to arrive from China for those "small" jobs. :wink:


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## tangledfeet (22 Oct 2016)

woodpig":1kelo6l3 said:


> Selling a perfectly good 100mm chuck to buy a slightly bigger one sounds like a mistake to me. Having more than one chuck is very useful as it's much quicker than jaw swapping. I



My thoughts too; have always seen the advantage to having more than one chuck! I've not yet decided whether or not to sell the Patriot.

And, as it happens, Axminster make carriers for their own chucks that will take jaws made by other manufacturers; only just found them and realised they'd offer even more flexibility!


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## CHJ (22 Oct 2016)

woodpig":31dk61pz said:


> .... I find even a 100mm chuck gets in the way sometimes so I'm sure the SK114 would be even worse for some jobs. Sadly no one chuck does it all. I'm currently waiting for a collet chuck to arrive from China for those "small" jobs. :wink:



Now my working methods are of the opposite sphere, 125mm dia. (the old Goliaths) being one of my most flexible and regularly used.
Must admit that biting the bullet over the years and obtaining multiple chucks has resulted in a bigger time saver and increase in flexibility than at first envisioned.

Collets have been under consideration for some time but I tend to 'manufacture' one of equivalents as and when needed as I don't handle a lot of spindle components with regular diameter stock.


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## Moonsafari69 (25 Oct 2016)

My vote is for the Evolution as that's my go-to choice for everything these days. I have the usual selection of jaws but tend to use the gripper the least. I use the O'Donnell jaws for a lot of small piece work, they are an effective combination with the SK114. The big jaws (Mega Jaws I think they're called) are brilliant, spot on for big bowls. The chuck feels solid and is super reliable. Well worth the pennies.


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## woodfarmer (25 Oct 2016)

I have an sk114, build is ok but the chuck bore is a loose fit on a brand new 1624 lathe spindle. It doesn't wobble just because the threads hold it tight against the end of the shoulder on the spindle. My cheap faceplates from axi fit fine.


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## SVB (26 Oct 2016)

woodfarmer":1r7djs07 said:


> I have an sk114, build is ok but the chuck bore is a loose fit on a brand new 1624 lathe spindle. It doesn't wobble just because the threads hold it tight against the end of the shoulder on the spindle. My cheap faceplates from axi fit fine.



This does not sound right. When is it a lose fit, on initial threading or when the register engages with the machined counterbore in the chuck? If the latter, do you have means of accurately measuring the two diameters?

S


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## woodfarmer (27 Oct 2016)

SVB":2c3mm0f8 said:


> woodfarmer":2c3mm0f8 said:
> 
> 
> > I have an sk114, build is ok but the chuck bore is a loose fit on a brand new 1624 lathe spindle. It doesn't wobble just because the threads hold it tight against the end of the shoulder on the spindle. My cheap faceplates from axi fit fine.
> ...


It is loose all the time until it is compressed against the shoulder of the spindle Unlike the counter bores on the chucks for my 90 odd year old Holbrook lathe the counter bore is a loose fit (very) the cheap faceplates fit well.


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## bigal1968 (4 Nov 2016)

i brought a clubman sk100 second hand when it arrived is was like new and the quality was amazing.Had it a week and boom the worm screw scroll that moves the jaws in and out broke not the chuck key part the actual scroll drive.So i thought must be bad luck the other user must of damaged it and it was unknown to him or me.Anyways that said i was that impressed with the engineering 2 months back i brought a new one from axminster.So fast forward 2 months later boom exact same thing i called axminster there guy on phone said he had heard of this problem i was like REALLY W.T.F.So a long story short they are collecting it for repair.Moral of the story i will not buy another.Also the scroll part that breaks looks like it is cast iron which to me just seems plain wrong.I say its cast because the first one that broke i got it apart and it appeared to be a cast scroll drive.The new chuck has a five year guarantee and i will be using it to its fullest.I predict this problem will be ongoing and not just a one off.So axminster shame on you.


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## woodpig (4 Nov 2016)

I'm surprised you've broken two to be honest. I think many chucks including the one on my metalwork lathe have a cast scroll. Clamping metal components in a SC chuck on a metal lathe puts far more stress than clamping wood but they seem to hold up fine. It may be though that the scroll is not beefy enough but I'd be surprised at this as they are basically copied from engineering chucks. I hope your repaired chuck lasts longer.

I don't fully understand why Axminster bothered with the SK114 as its only got 7mm on the radius over the SK100 hasn't it? Engineering chucks have historically come in 4", 5" and 6" etc. you can see the pattern. :wink: The world and his wife make 4" woodturning chucks I suppose as they're more than up to the task for what the majority of turners do. I can see the point of making a larger chuck for those that turn big stuff but 5" is the obvious step up isn't it? :roll:

I also wonder if the SK114 can actually apply more clamping pressure as some expect. The SK100 design means the chuck key turns directly on the scroll whereas on the SK114 design it has a pinion between the key and the scroll. Probably not much difference either way though.


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## bigal1968 (4 Nov 2016)

The chuck holds real well and i only ever tighten one handed, personally i think if the scroll is in a certain position and you get the slightest catch on the wood this can break the casting of the scroll, they say its machined in stainless for better tolerance that being said there is still a lot of movement in the jaw holders.Also its seems they have 2 types one with grub screws holding boss on which needs returning and the other type has screws on the back.All that said there is obviously something a miss and as they said on the phone they have heard of this happening.If it happens again it will go back again again and again.


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## woodpig (4 Nov 2016)

For what it's worth as well as my Axminster SK100 I also bought a Record SC4 a while back and it seems nicely made, albeit in PRC.


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## CHJ (4 Nov 2016)

The Goliath chucks (same design pattern) I have appear to have machined scrolls, but if the SK100 has similar scroll sizing to that on the older precision 100mm chucks I have and the scrolls are indeed now cast then I could see a shear strength problem of the scroll gear, only 3 'teeth' engaged and carrying the load.

Re the comments about the metal chuck scrolls and comparing them with the Axminster standard, I noted some time ago that the axminster scroll tooth spacing is on a slightly courser scale than most metal turning chucks, this is even visible compared with the Vesa Chuck which is basically a chuck body aimed at metal lathe use.

I use predominantly axy standard (5 off +1 Versa with axy compatible carriers) as it gives me maximum versatility with my accessory jaws and have no reservations about the courser scroll for wood clamping but it does not give quite the same finesse and actuating forces that a good metal chuck does.

When first promoted I had a feeling that the little extra 14mm diam. was to allow better use of the Cole Jaws as on a 100mm chuck there is often a dead spot between standard button positions, so improving on the 100mm in that respect but cheaper in stock materials for production than the 5" goliath, maybe the aim was to also increase the number of scroll tooth engagements.

Some images of differing scroll sizing,

Axminster carriers.





Axminster Scroll on a 100mm Precision chuck.




Versa Chuck Carrier.




Versa Chuck Scroll.




Vicmarc carriers .(coutesy PaulJ)




Sorry no Vicmarc Scroll details.

Incidentally as PaulJ recently found out, the Vicmarc Jaws should you take them out have to be engaged in his chuck body in the 2-3-4-1 order due to the no1 carrier missing a first tooth.


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## bigal1968 (4 Nov 2016)

nice info thanks clearly see the carrier difference on the axminster chuck as you stated if it only locates on 3 scrolls there will be issues or even 2 1/2 scrolls i cant say as i cant move the jaw holders jammed in place.To say i am annoyed is an understatement.


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## CHJ (4 Nov 2016)

If the second-hand chuck you purchased appears otherwise in good condition I should also query why that scroll failed, if it's for the same reason, as seems to have been accepted, then I think you could argue that the manufacture of your earlier one was not fit for purpose regardless as how you acquired it.

I would always accept that a chuck will wear with use but I would not expect one to wear beyond serviceable use in my lifetime and certainly not fail in normal use.


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## bigal1968 (4 Nov 2016)

just spoke to them again they are really not interested i checked had it 1 month so i said i want a new one i am not prepared to wait no joy at all very annoyed,i also said its a poor design and using casting on the scroll was not the best idea but to me seems like it falls on death ears.lesson learnt


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