# Ordering Direct from Lee Valley



## PitBull (30 Sep 2004)

Greetings,

I'm thinking about buying the LV Scraper Plane, Low Angle Jack Plane and Medium Shoulder Plane.

BriMarc currently don't have the LA Jack, and don't know when they'll get any more.

Has anybody ever ordered directly from LV website in Canada ? if so - any problems either with delivery or customs/taxes etc ?

They are quoting me US$574 for the goodies (there's some extra blades in there as well !) and either US$45 for surface mail (8-10 weeks - no bleedin' way) or US$103-104 for either Xpress Post or UPS Express which are 5-10 and 5-6 business days respectively. Any recommendations on the latter two ???


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## Adam (30 Sep 2004)

I've ordered a couple of times - superb service - better than any supplier in the UK, do a search here for Lee valley - and read through theirs lots of threads saying how good they are.

When getting delivery - I went for surface mail - qouted as 4 weeks I think, it was here in about 4-5 days, and both times made it through customs without a charge. Ended up making quite a saving.

Rob Lee (managing director?) frequencts this forum regularly - (it's a plane afficianardos thing - him and ALF talk sole flatness and stuff offline I think......)

Adam

With the surface mail - I reckon it's easier to sneak in without paying import duty - 'cos theres noone to collect - with UPS you are certain to get charged. On a different non-LV order, when the delivery guy arrived - he just swiped my card to take the customs-tax - it worked really smoothly.

A


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## Noel (30 Sep 2004)

Pitbull,

I can almost guarantee that you'll get stung for tax if you use X-press or UPS. And also you'll pay for the privilege of paying tax with a fee for arranging to collect the tax in the first place.
My recent orders have not been on the scale you propose (not cost, but size and weight of the package) and I've always used surface post. Granted, it takes so long, usually 4 or 5 weeks or so, but no vat or EU tax, luckily.
As Adam mentioned, Rob Lee is a member here and he runs Lee Valley and I can guarantee (my 2nd in this post...) that customer service is the best you'll encounter this side of Mars, so to speak.

Rgds

Noel


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## Shady (30 Sep 2004)

Best bet is to find a friend in the continental US/Canada: have it sent to them, repackage as a 'present' in non-commercial wrapping, and sent to you.... :wink:


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## Noel (30 Sep 2004)

Don't buy personally or don't get a friend to buy personally in Canada as you'll be charged sales tax / vat which I think is about 18%. When I mentioned this the nice LV people said "No problem, you can get a form at the airport and claim it back when you get home." Of course the only way to get it back is to declare it to UK C & E.........
Of course no problem in the US if you get it in a sales tax free state.

Rgds

Noel


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## Rob Lee (30 Sep 2004)

Hi all - 

It's true that delivery by surface post isn't always as bad as we quote - but it certainly can be. It probably helps that we share the same monarch (or at least, that you share her with us!!).

In the very near future, Brimarc will have a large stock of all planes, and at prices not far off prices here (about 10-15%) - they have worked closely with us to ensure that the UK market price is competitive with North American pricing - but with local stock, and much better domestic delivery.


Cheers - 

Rob Lee


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## Martin Brown (30 Sep 2004)

Our stock is due in 10 days and the pricing will be on our website on Oct 1st. I suggest you take a peek then decide. Our delivery times are currently 48hrs on stock items. 
Martin


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## Newbie_Neil (1 Oct 2004)

Hi Rob and Martin



Rob Lee":2v3tn783 said:


> In the very near future, Brimarc will have a large stock of all planes, and at prices not far off prices here (about 10-15%) - they have worked closely with us to ensure that the UK market price is competitive with North American pricing - but with local stock, and much better domestic delivery.



I'm sure that everyone will welcome this move wholeheartedly.

Does this just apply to planes?

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (1 Oct 2004)

Pitbull

Ordered a shoulder plane from them and received it in less than 2 weeks surface mail

Don't think I got stung for tax on this one but definitely did on LNswhich brings them close to UK prices


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## devonwoody (1 Oct 2004)

I took in a parcel the other day for a neighbour (spares parts for his motoor cycle from the usa) The post office charged £13 to collect £18 customs duty.
Not very nice.


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## Alf (1 Oct 2004)

<Runs over to BriMarc site>No joy. Too early, obviously.  

If it helps get an idea for excise charges etc, the parcel of low angle jack and bullnose was stung for a tad over £60. (For the record,I didn't have to pay it though, L-V did  ) 



asleitch":2qt028rj said:


> Rob Lee (managing director?) frequents this forum regularly - (it's a plane afficianardos thing - him and ALF talk sole flatness and stuff offline I think......)


President, old boy. North American remember? :wink: The temptation to address emails to him as "Mr President" has, so far, been resisted (and they said I had no will power). Hmm, maybe "El Presidente" as an alternative.  I don't think we've done sole flatness... No, I tell a lie. It cropped up vis-a-vis the shoulder plane. Inevitable I suppose. :roll: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Adam (1 Oct 2004)

Alf":2uke3nm5 said:


> President, old boy. North American remember?



Sorry, forgot  Everybody down to the bus driver is a senior executive vice president of driving staff*

We actually make up job titles here when the 'murricans visit as ours don't sound worthy enough. Only need to drop in a few of the following, and voila - we have a title worthy for our visitors...

Executive
Manager
Senior
Vice President
Consultant


*or similar


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## Rob Lee (1 Oct 2004)

Newbie_Neil":5zn817p5 said:


> Hi Rob and Martin
> 
> I'm sure that everyone will welcome this move wholeheartedly.
> 
> ...



Hi Neil - 

I can't speak directly to how UK pricing works, as I don't have a tremendous insight into many of the costs of your markets - but I can tell you that Brimarc operates very fairly with the pricing we give them. One of the difficulties with much of our product range is that, as a retailer and manufacturer, we have a broad range of product that has been priced without adequate room for distribution in other markets. 

Until the world "shrunk" (over the past 2-3 years...) seperability of markets (can I say that?) wasn't an issue. We're re-working much of our distribution policy to ensure competitiveness on a global scale. Keep in mind too, that Lee Valley sets prices once per year - and last year the USD dropped by more than 20% (and it's been another 5% so far this year) - our pricing to export markets was left at the "high water" mark...


Cheers - 

Rob Lee


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## Adam (1 Oct 2004)

Rob Lee":1ips58kj said:


> Keep in mind too, that Lee Valley sets prices once per year - and last year the USD dropped by more than 20% (and it's been another 5% so far this year) - our pricing to export markets was left at the "high water" mark...
> Cheers - Rob Lee



Perhaps a policy of reviewing it, if USD moved by more than 10% would solve such a situation?

Adam


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## Rob Lee (1 Oct 2004)

asleitch":2qx3ib4w said:


> Rob Lee":2qx3ib4w said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind too, that Lee Valley sets prices once per year - and last year the USD dropped by more than 20% (and it's been another 5% so far this year) - our pricing to export markets was left at the "high water" mark...
> ...



Hi Adam - 

Yes, we do that as well - but the Candian dollar is still more closely coupled the the US dollar than the Euro or GBP - and it is our primary export market to boot...we have to be careful what we do where, and when...


Cheers - 

Rob


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## dedee (1 Oct 2004)

Rob Lee":14mm600k said:


> but the Candian dollar is still more closely coupled the the US dollar than the Euro or GBP - and it is our primary export market to boot...we have to be careful what we do where, and when...



Then perhaps you could open up a manufacturing plant in Europe, please?

Andy


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## PitBull (1 Oct 2004)

Greetings,

As Adam suggested, I went with the surface mail option - not in a massive hurry as after this weekend I'm back in Switzerland for the next 4 weeks and won't be shipping the workshop over to Switzerland until a few weeks after then :-( Means it'll be getting very cold outside just as I start to setup the new workshop, but since it's a large cellar under the house, this won't be a problem 

BTW I was aware that Rob Lee is a fairly regular poster here - I've been quite impressed with his posting in general, his objective (as much as possible !) responses to Alf's plane testing, and of course I was nudged in the direction of LV primarily by Alf's reviews (BTW - superb job there Alf - you really could do a full or part time job for a WWing mag job if you wanted to).

This is basically my last round of WW tool buying before I'm permanently in the land of toberlones and mountains, and I'm slowly spending a recent modest inheritance on quality tools (mostly handtools)


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## Alf (1 Oct 2004)

PitBull":qnpg1k1j said:


> BTW I was aware that Rob Lee is a fairly regular poster here - I've been quite impressed with his posting in general, his objective (as much as possible !) responses to Alf's plane testing


Not as impressed as me. :shock: If roles were reversed I'd like to think I'd have been as forebearing, but alas... :roll: 



PitBull":qnpg1k1j said:


> and of course I was nudged in the direction of LV primarily by Alf's reviews (BTW - superb job there Alf - you really could do a full or part time job for a WWing mag job if you wanted to).


Aww shucks. It's nice to know I don't ramble in vain. I have a feeling the mags like to use people who actually _make_ things though.  



PitBull":qnpg1k1j said:


> I'm slowly spending a recent modest inheritance on quality tools (mostly handtools)


A woodworker of discernment.  

Cheers, Alf

Hand me the tin of grease; so many Slopes, so little time!


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## Martin Brown (1 Oct 2004)

We have now updated our website and it has the new plane pricing. They are 10% down on prices previously quoted. The replacement parts are slightly up. All existing orders we have will be amended.

We are expecting stock around the 15th October. If you order before 14th October we will charge no carriage if you mention ukworkshop. This will save up to £5.50. 

Please note that the Spokeshaves have increased in price due to an error on our part. Apologies.

Martin


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## gidon (1 Oct 2004)

Hi Martin

Nice to see prices down! A rare event in the woodworking world. And your website has come on leaps on bounds ...

Are you likely to have decent stock at the Axminster show (on the Thursday morning at least) ? I would really like to have a feel before buying - specifically the large shoulder plane and the LA jack plane.

It's an impressive range you stock - but what retailers (ideally online retailers ) actually stock even 50% of that range? Is this going to change do you think?

Cheers

Gidon


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## Martin Brown (1 Oct 2004)

At the show we have an exclusively Veritas stand with just about as much Veritas as we can squeeze on it. There will be plenty of planes as we have 3 shipments due between now and the show. You can try and then buy. The whole range will be available for test not just the planes.

We have a campaign to encourage online Veritas retailing just about to start. I will post any new sites that have Veritas.

Thanks to Veritas for a very positive move on pricing.

Martin


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## gidon (1 Oct 2004)

Thanks Martin - better start saving those pennies!

Cheers

Gidon


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## Alf (1 Oct 2004)

Martin,

Hmm, shame about the shaves (feared as much - we should all have shut up instead of saying "wow, good price" :roll: :lol: ) but excellent news on the rest. Deary me, the temptation... :shock: I'm impressed the scraper plane is below the £100 mark; should be a lot of takers I'm guessing. (Anyone care to think of a reason for owning two scraper planes? I'm open to excus-, er, ideas... :wink: )

Right, off to update all the reviews. :roll: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Midnight (1 Oct 2004)

> I'm open to excus-, er, ideas... )



C'mon Alf... yer slippin....

They're similar... but not the same... enough of a difference to suggest that they'd be better at some types of stock than others...


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## woodshavings (2 Oct 2004)

Hi Rob,
I can understand your difficulty with your original setup as both a manufacturer and a distributer. The problem is compounded when you export to companies like Brimarc who are distributers and have to make a margin for themselves and give a discount to their retail sales companies before we, the end users, get out hands on the product.

Its good that brimarc sell direct as well as through retailers - this must help their margins although I would bet the retailers grumble about being in competition!

As you say, the world has got much smaller and the impact of the Internet shopping is now really being recognized. I think eventually the "business model" will have to change with companies like Brimarc only selling direct to end users, competitive pressures will eliminate the conventional retailer. In many cases direct manufacturer to end user, even internationally, will probably happen once the efficient collection of shipping/tax/duty issues are resolved 

Its great that Brimarc now have the full range and fairly priced - its good to have companies that have a real interest in their customers and distributors like Brimarc who add value and know what they are talking about.

John


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## Martin Brown (2 Oct 2004)

Thanks John for your kind words. Really you have summed up the issues pretty clearly. The world is changing. We don't compete with our retailers as we give them margin on business we do directly, for the reason below.

One consumer comment that always comes up is where can I go and see it? This is not only a Veritas issue it relates to all brands and not just BriMarc. The local store will enable you to touch, discuss, moan about what you might buy on a Saturday morning. The shows attract small numbers by comparison to the market. Don't forget your local store too quickly. 

Margins have had to be examined by everyone and the internet has had a very positive impact on consumers. Mind you some of my e bay purchases have been a little wobbly. Any one for a hand signed Nick Lowe hand bill from 1976? It isn't his signature.

Again your positive comments are appreciated, when we don't add value we are lost.

Martin and frankly everyone at BriMarc.

PS As I am nervous about a commercial post I welcome email directly on topics.


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## tx2man (3 Oct 2004)

BTW Martin,
One's too many and a hundred ain't enough  

TX


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## bugbear (4 Oct 2004)

> Don't forget your local store too quickly.



And please don't do the (oft recommended by "clever" people) move of trying, testing and expoliting expertise on an item in a local store, and then surfing net suppliers for the lowest price.

BugBear


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## Martin Brown (4 Oct 2004)

I agree but it is hard thing to solve. We try to give everyone a fair crack, local dealers, national mail order companies et al. In the end you cannot stop people deciding for themselves where to order from.

The secret is for a local store to do a really good job and not let anyone out without the chance to order from them. 

The local store will also save you money if something is faulty and you always avoid our carriage charge. 

Surely local stores are a rather nice way for learning and communication. Not all communications are made through the web. Currently e mail is only 10% of our communication, growing I concede but still by no means the majority.

Martin


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## ike (4 Oct 2004)

Martin asked:



> Does anyone know why there are lorries running around with EAT MORE CHIPS on the side in metre high letters?



See this http://www.venue.co.uk/feedback/letter4.html

Ike


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## Martin Brown (4 Oct 2004)

Thanks Ike. I've always wondered. People you tell about it never believe you.

Chips for lunch then.

Martin


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## Anonymous (4 Oct 2004)

Well, I for one have taken Martin up on the 'mention ukworkshop' and ordered the veritas large shoulder plane 

Now it's time to wait for the delivery...just wish offers like that weren't happening when I was trying to save money and not buy things...but I couldn't resist!


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## Martin Brown (4 Oct 2004)




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## Anonymous (4 Oct 2004)

Martin Brown":3juru2x0 said:


> My Morris has trafficators. Are they illegal?



Word here, from a colleague who's a '69 Morris Pickup owner is, no they're not, but most people install regular indicators too, cos other inconsiderate road users don't notice the little flip up arms.


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## ike (4 Oct 2004)

Feeble perhaps. (my S1 Landrover had bolt on ones - looked like ears)


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## PitBull (3 Nov 2004)

Greetings,

Got a call today - ParcelFarce were holding my delivery from LV pending payment of £62 customs charges. Paid with gritted teeth :-(

Still it means they arrive tomorrow when I'm visitiing the UK for a long weekend and can take them back with me (not in carry-on though as tools are verboten in carry-on).


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## ike (4 Nov 2004)

£62. How much is that as a percentage of your order value?. I ask cos I've ordered some stuff hoping to save a wad. Hopefully, I'll still come out ahead!

cheers

Ike


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## Adam (4 Nov 2004)

My experience is if you select any option other than surface mail, you are guarenteed to get stung for import duty - as the "courier" always charges it. I found they turned up at work one day, and they were able to swipe my card through there and then. On a second occasion, they rang head office on their mobile, gave me the phone, and I paid the duty that way. The only times I've got away with it is using surface mail (every time bar one so far). I've got an order winging it's way from LV as we speak, so it'll be interesting to see if I get stung on that.

Adam


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## ike (4 Nov 2004)

> I've got an order winging it's way from LV



Well, my two are probably floating then, cos I went for surface mail to maximise the savings. Seems like the average is about 4-5 weeks, not 8-10.

Ike


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## Adam (4 Nov 2004)

ike":12sk0cta said:


> > I've got an order winging it's way from LV
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK, my are winging it through the water, as I too, went for surface mail. I reckon 1-2 weeks is more common than 4-5.

Adam


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## ike (4 Nov 2004)

> I reckon 1-2 weeks is more common than 4-5.



Now that's a droolicious thought!


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## PitBull (5 Nov 2004)

Ike,

Total order (3 planes + 4 spare blades) was US$619.54 = £354.92.

Parcel Farce charged me £54.61 tax plus £8.00 "handling fee" (robbing b*gg*rs). 

Thus:
- tax + fee as a percentage was 17.64%
- tax only as a percentage was 15.38%

Total cost to me was £417.54, BriMarc would have cost £457.08 plus postage (not sure what they charge for that). So saved some £40 plus postage, but waited a few weeks more than I would have with BriMarc (though that wasn't a problem in this instance).


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## ike (5 Nov 2004)

> - tax only as a percentage was 15.38%



Thanks for the info. Funny business ain't it? . I'd have thought the minimum would have been 17.5% VAT. Anyway, it seems we can all come out comfortably ahead even after getting stiffed by IR/C&E.

cheers

Ike


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## andrewm (5 Nov 2004)

> Quote:
> - tax only as a percentage was 15.38%
> 
> 
> Thanks for the info. Funny business ain't it? . I'd have thought the minimum would have been 17.5% VAT. Anyway, it seems we can all come out comfortably ahead even after getting stiffed by IR/C&E.



It's a question of maths. If you buy in the UK tax as a percentage is only 14.89%. Looks like Parcelforce charged Pitbull 18.18%

Go figure.

Andrew


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## Neil (5 Nov 2004)

Don't quite understand that, Andrew. I see how you got the 14.89% figure, but:

£354.92 + VAT
= 354.92 * 1.175
= 417.03

VAT paid = 417.03 - 354.92
= 62.11

So Pitbull was charged less than 17.5% VAT, surely?

Although I've only had one coffee this morning, so I could be wrong... :wink: 

NeilCFD


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## woodshavings (5 Nov 2004)

It seems to me that buying from Brimark is worth the extra 10% or so - stock, support etc.


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## Martin Brown (5 Nov 2004)

For the record we would only charge carriage under £150 and offer a no arguments warranty. If you are not happy we will replace, refund or repair to your whim.

Martin


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## ike (5 Nov 2004)

Top marks to Martin et al at Brimark for service, but there's the occasional 'special offer' that pops up somewhere else, and the savings are somewhat more than 10%. So in my case, I've dipped my toe in the water for a few little extras 'direct'. Hope you don't mind, Martin - you haven't lost my future custom BTW. :wink: 

cheers

Ike


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## ike (8 Nov 2004)

One of my 2 parcels arrived from LV today. Just 6 days delivery and best of all, no taxes!. The surface mail option really does give good value. I expect it can take a lot longer though, maybe I was lucky this time.

Ike


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## andrewm (8 Nov 2004)

Neil,

You are right of course. I was assuming that the £354.92 that Pitbull quoted was the total price including VAT. So, yes, strange that the tax should be less than 17.5% but that's customs for you.

Andrew


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## Neil (8 Nov 2004)

Yeah, it doesn't seem to make sense - still, at least it worked out at a lesser rate rather than a greater one!

I had a thought that maybe the figure Pitbull gave was the amount debited to the credit card, which would be converted from dollars using the card company's rip-off rate, whereas ParcelFarce may have based the tax on the dollar price using the 'true' exchange rate.

NeilCFD


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## PitBull (8 Nov 2004)

Neil,

The variance of the tax actually paid versus what should have been paid is probably due to a combination of what you suggest, plus exchange rate movements in the time between actual dispatch date and date of arrival in the UK.


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