# Fallkniven Ceramic - The Ultimate Sharpening Tool?



## jimi43 (23 Mar 2014)

I think it is no exaggeration to say that I have tried every type of object capable of making something blunt, sharp. Making something raw, bevelled. From my concrete step to the delicate finishing of Ardennes' finest coticule.

But like most other people, I search in vain for the holy grail...the sharpening thing that does everything.

Well a fine company in Sweden may very well be coming close to providing that utopia.







I stumbled on the Fällkniven factory when researching sharpening systems to put a new edge on some knives my son (a chef) owns from Global...which tend to be rather hard to sharpen...resisting most methods thrown at them. So the other day I was trawling FleaBay and came across this product and thought it looked pretty anyway and I should try it.






It arrived very quickly...a day or two...beautifully packaged and in a rather nice box...






It's unusual in that it has a base ceramic in black with a steel TAN coated plate bonded to this. The gold plate is a very coarse diamond "stone" and the black substrate is a "fine" ceramic stone...made of synthetic sapphires.






I put "fine" in quotes because it isn't! It's medium at best and bloody aggressive in reality. Which is what I loved! All the ceramic stones I have ever tried are ok for fine work but not for that medium stage between copious stock removal and fine honing.

This ceramic stone fills that gap perfectly.






That's the diamond side...no idea what the hole is for...probably hanging it up...but you _*want *_to put it back in the box it's so beautiful!






The other side which is for finishing is a weird surface...






You use both sides dry and really...it works! You just brush the dry dust off but don't use your T-shirt...I put a hole straight through the material with a few swipes it is that good!

It sort of came at the right time...that Japanese iron on the Steve Knight jointer was in need of flattening and the bevel finishing so that was the first thing I did....






The edge had quite a big chip out of it...one of the bugbears of the super-hard Japanese edge laminate. I wanted to get rid of it...and nearly have in a few minute!






Just a bit more to go but I was impatient to try out the Knight jointer so I will come back and finish it later when I have a few seconds!!

That re-shaping was done with confidence totally by hand...no guide...and gives a really professional finish.

I can't wait to start sharpening all the knives in the kitchen and at my son's work!!! 

I have already had to warn Annie that the little Victorian veg knife I keep on the side is now a lethal weapon....

This stone is truly that good.....and worth every penny of the £50 it costs...it puts the more expensive DMT stones to shame!

Cheers

Jimi

PS...ALFIE was NOT harmed in the making of this review!!!


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## paulm (23 Mar 2014)

They do a smaller version that is very popular on the knife and outdoors forums Jimi, with people that want to be able to keep it in a pocket or rucksack with them for sharpening while out and about, and very effective they are too 

They do a very well regarded range of pocket and larger knives too for outdoorsy types, with some quite amazing 3g powder steels and vg10 etc as well as less exotic types.

I've got the kitchen versions too, the 10 or 12" rods with a handle, one with the diamond and one ceramic, and they are the go to for tickling up an edge or for a bit more establishing a new edge on the diamond one.

Not cheap but very effective as you say 

Cheers, Paul


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## Peter Sefton (23 Mar 2014)

That does look like a good bit of kit.
Cheers Peter


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## Random Orbital Bob (23 Mar 2014)

mmm. I have the global knife set. Costo were selling them a year ago for £199 including a block and I never use any other knives now. I also found that Japanese alloy very hard. I ended up running them very very carefully on the Tormek with the silicon blackstone on using the knife jig (I usually don't bother preferring to freehand). Just gave them about 3 passes on each side and that brought back close to a perfect edge. What was really noticeable about Global knives is the factory edge was the best I've ever encountered on any edge tool, it was just perfection. The Tormek got close and I think if I'd bothered to hone on a stone it would have been there.

But that's not the point of the post, the point was that I also have a common or garden steel in my kitchen and all the verbage surrounding the Global knives "mystique" was that this old carbon steel dinosaur wouldn't touch this Samurai...forged in the hellfires of Mount........somewhere in Japan! Anyway, turned out to be a load of poppycock and I find if you run the knives over the steel about every other time they're used....about 5 passes on each side, pressing very hard I admit, they keep their edge. Its not as good as that original factory edge but it is easily good enough to slice a softish tomato with no squeeze out ie superb.

So I learned 2 lessons from that: 1) Little and often is definitely the way with kitchen steels and 2) Always question marketing messages, especially when the messenger makes some profit if you buy into the message! The one exception to that would be Ian at Tuffsaws who is the most genuine, honest businessman I've ever traded with.

I don't doubt the more expensive ceramic and/or diamond steels work better for a moment its just that Global argue that a regular steel doesn't work and I found that not to be the case. Unsurprisingly Global sell a ceramic steel


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Mar 2014)

I would warn anyone tempted to buy Globals on other peoples recommendations to try them first - if you have large hands, you're likely to find them awfully uncomfortable as the handles are so small. They are very good knives, but I much prefer Henkels or Wusthofs for the handle shape.
Of course, someone with large hands will contradict me - they're welcome.


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## Cheshirechappie (23 Mar 2014)

Interesting. Very interesting.

I used the Spyderco ceramic stones (a medium and an ultra-fine) for some years, and found them the cleanest and most compact sharpening method I'd tried, and perfectly capable of giving a very good edge. The ultra-fine stone in particular is a gem. However, the downsides are that the medium isn't as fast-cutting as (say) a fine Norton India stone, and it isn't dead flat, either. They're also rather expensive. So, something that fills the gap between grinding and fine honing looks to be a very good find.

Thanks, Alfie - erm, I mean, thanks Jimi!


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## Racers (23 Mar 2014)

I have been using a Ikea ceramic steel on my O1 steel knives for touch ups and its working very well http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/30167003/

Pete


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## mqbernardo (23 Mar 2014)

thanks fopr the review and the heads-up. do they state the grits of both sides of the stones? and do you know if it´s mono or poly-crystalline diamonds on the stone? (i know, i´m nitpicking here...  )

thanks again,
Miguel.


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## jimi43 (23 Mar 2014)

I have the SPYDERCO fine too and it is a great finishing stone for following on from this one. I think this will be my "go to" kit from now on...especially on flat bevels and such.

Miquel...the only thing on the paperwork is that it's 25 micron grit....nothing else. No idea what type of diamonds are used on the plate but the impregnation in the black ceramic side consists of synthetic sapphires.

Check the website referenced above and see if they have any detail there if not you could probably ask them further technical questions.

Cheers

Jimi


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## mqbernardo (24 Mar 2014)

that´s probably a good idea.


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## mqbernardo (24 Mar 2014)

ok, they were really fast answering - thought i might share. grit size for the D side is 25 microns (as you stated, it should be around 400 JIS) and sapphire is 1 (!!! - around 10 000 ? ). diamonds are mono-crystaline, like in DMT and Atoma - sounds like a good deal indeed. thanks again!

all the best,
Miguel.


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## jimi43 (24 Mar 2014)

Thanks for the technical update Miguel....interesting stuff.

I would have thought that the "fine" side was graded coarser than that but if that's what they say it must be true.

It certainly seems to work more aggressively and I have a fine SPYDERCO white ceramic one as I said earlier and that definitely is what I would class as fine.

Cheers mate

Jimi


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## iNewbie (24 Mar 2014)

mqbernardo":1x442pyz said:


> ok, they were really fast answering - thought i might share. grit size for the D side is 25 microns (as you stated, it should be around 400 JIS) and sapphire is 1 (!!! - around 10 000 ? ). diamonds are mono-crystaline, like in DMT *and Atoma *- sounds like a good deal indeed. thanks again!
> 
> all the best,
> Miguel.



I wouldn't be surprised if they make them for them - seeing as they have Japanese made knives.


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## JohnPW (24 Mar 2014)

Yes it looks like they do not actually make any of their products, have a look at their "about us" page, a few display cabinets plus an office!
http://www.fallkniven.com/en/aboutus

Spyderco also don't make their ceramic stones.


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## jimi43 (24 Mar 2014)

And even more surprising...I bought it from a bloke in Newcastle!!!

Amazing stuff this global marketplace init! :roll: 

Jimi


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## Cheshirechappie (25 Mar 2014)

Another UK source - Heinnie Hayes of Barry in South Wales - http://www.heinnie.com/Sharpeners/Fallk ... -212-8383/

By the way, the 'global marketplace' stuff and manufacturers who don't make stuff is nothing new. Ashley Iles in his autobiography recalls the 'little mester' system of metal craftsmen in Sheffield, and how somebody could set up as a 'manufacturer' by buying a namestamp, then buying some toolsteel, taking it to an independent hammerman to be forged into chisel blanks (or whatever), then taking the blanks to a hardener, then a grinder, then an edge tool cutler to have the handles attached, then selling the batch on to a tool factor. You could be a 'manufacturer' in Sheffield with nothing more than a stock of work-in-progress in your front room. You just did all the leg-work taking part-finished work between independent skilled men. 

Nowt's changed much.


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## jimi43 (25 Mar 2014)

Exactly CC....no idea what relevance the source is but it seems to be a favourite topic rather than focusing on functionality.

In all the infills I have attributed to a manufacturer are irons made by another maker and sold through a brand distributor who put their mark on it.

Much of the "cottage industry" of Sheffield relied on this process to work.

Thanks for the link to another supplier and a bit cheaper too.

I'm comparing these prices to those of DMT which is a fairly standard reference and in my opinion having used both...these are of a superior quality...by a huge amount.

Time will tell about longevity although this one seems to clean up better.

Jimi

Jim


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## iNewbie (26 Mar 2014)

jimi43":3bqvjado said:


> Exactly CC....no idea what relevance the source is but it seems to be a favourite topic rather than focusing on functionality.



Personally I like to know who's supplying who. Sometimes I don't want to buy from a particular company for whatever reason - political or not. Not that I have an issue with Atoma - I only mentioned the name as they are known for making a fine product. But I'll STFU now incase someone throws a hissy fit over nothing.


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## Cheshirechappie (26 Mar 2014)

I may be wrong, but I have a vague feeling that the 'hissy fit' comment was aimed at me, so I'll respond, though there's no question of throwing fits.

It's always been the case that manufacturers sub-contract or buy in bits and pieces (sometimes quite significant ones) from specialist firms. Most carmakers get their body panels from specialist press shops, their tyres, electrical goods, trim components, even complete wiring looms from specialists. Volvo cars are assembled in Sweden, but about 50% of the components are made in the UK, I gather. Twas ever thus - virtually nobody has made their own nuts and bolts since the very early days of the industrial revolution. Far cheaper to buy the quantity you need from a specialist with the high-value capital equipment to knock them out by the million.

The whole of manufacturing industry runs like that, and more or less has since 'industry' developed. The phenomenon of tool manufacturers in Sheffield making their own steel was always the exception rather than the rule; only the very largest firms had the capital to install all the plant needed, or the turnover and sales to justify it. Sheffield has always been chock-full of specialists; steelmakers, steel stockholders, forgers, grinders, handle-makers - you name it - and even they specialised. A firm specialising in heavy forgings under steam hammers or big presses would be utterly incapable of making firmer chisels, and vice versa. However, when all the specialists combine, each doing their own bit with great efficiency and skill borne of long practice, even a pretty complex finished product can be made quite economically and to a very high standard.

Things have become a lot more globalised since a lot of labour-intensive work went to low labour cost economies, but even that is reversing now; the big thing in industry these days is 'on-shoring' - bringing work back from abroad, for a variety of reasons; increasing labour costs offshore, transport costs, the problem of dealing with quality issues if they arise, and the development of more automated and economical ways of doing things.

The only future certainty is that things will keep changing. They always have; they always will. Whether the ways of the world are good, bad or indifferent is I suppose down to personal philosophies and attitudes, but none of us will change it much, so we might as well get on with it.


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## iNewbie (26 Mar 2014)

If it was directed at anyone in particular I would have posted the name - I said: "incase someone". So yes. You were wrong.

And really, there was no need for the verbiage. I'm not bothered where something is made. Never said I was - only said by who, _may_.


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## mathias (5 Oct 2014)

mqbernardo":1546v3s7 said:


> ok, they were really fast answering - thought i might share. grit size for the D side is 25 microns (as you stated, it should be around 400 JIS) and sapphire is 1 (!!! - around 10 000 ? ). diamonds are mono-crystaline, like in DMT and Atoma - sounds like a good deal indeed. thanks again!
> 
> all the best,
> Miguel.



I recently asked as well and got the answer the ceramic is 8 micron.

cheers


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## Fromey (5 Oct 2014)

How flat are they?


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## jimi43 (5 Oct 2014)

Fromey":3eujuemt said:


> How flat are they?


They seem flat enough for me....the recent DMT XX thread showed initial flattening on the DMT...then coarse on the Fallkniven diamond steel gold side...(coarse)...then flip to the fine ceramic side then DMT Extra fine diamond to finish...about 1 hour...







....but that iron had a surface like Dolly Parton having a kip!

Jim


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## swagman (7 Oct 2014)

mathias":gejs4814 said:


> mqbernardo":gejs4814 said:
> 
> 
> > ok, they were really fast answering - thought i might share. grit size for the D side is 25 microns (as you stated, it should be around 400 JIS) and sapphire is 1 (!!! - around 10 000 ? ). diamonds are mono-crystaline, like in DMT and Atoma - sounds like a good deal indeed. thanks again!
> ...



Thanks Miguel. 8 micron on the ceramic side sounds much more accurate. 

Stewie;.


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## swagman (8 Oct 2014)

60 micron; 25 micron; 8 micron; and green cutting compound on mdf would make a nice selection of honing mediums to have on hand.


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## bugbear (8 Oct 2014)

Chuckle. Just re-read the description. Synthetic Sapphires. Very posh. Much nicer than common old AlOx sand paper.
Wait. What's that you say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corundum

Oh. Alox, Corundum and Sapphire (amongst other) are the same stuff!

(the chemistry is not the whole story, of course)

BugBear


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## jimi43 (8 Oct 2014)

Indeed Stewie...a great arsenal for those who do woodwork

Very refreshing and helpful to others to present an empirical observation rather than one gained by the use of theory.

Thanks mate.

Jimi


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## DennisCA (20 Oct 2014)

This definitely sounds interesting. I've been wanting 3 stones like paul sellers EZE-lap system but too expensive... This combo stone looks more like in my ballpark., will the ceramic side become hollow with use or does it stand up to use like a diamond plate? I suppose it does not matter if it will as I sharpen with intent to develop a camber.


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## bugbear (20 Oct 2014)

DennisCA":28lk5iyu said:


> This definitely sounds interesting. I've been wanting 3 stones like paul sellers EZE-lap system but too expensive... This combo stone looks more like in my ballpark., will the ceramic side become hollow with use or does it stand up to use like a diamond plate? I suppose it does not matter if it will as I sharpen with intent to develop a camber.



Some joint making blades _must_ be straight. "most" can be cambered.

BugBear


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## DennisCA (20 Oct 2014)

Which ones are the ones that need to be straight, I have so far only ordinary planes and chisels to sharpen so far. A rebate and router plane are planned as well.


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## Dangermouse. (20 Oct 2014)

Ahh another sharpening thread......................... YAWN


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## Max Power (20 Oct 2014)

your not obligated to read it :?


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## bugbear (20 Oct 2014)

DennisCA":3r929537 said:


> Which ones are the ones that need to be straight, I have so far only ordinary planes and chisels to sharpen so far. A rebate and router plane are planned as well.



jointers, rebate, shoulder need to be dead straight. Smoothers need to be straight to the tolerance of the finest shaving you plan to take.

BugBear


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## iNewbie (20 Oct 2014)

Dangermouse.":2vj8y1wd said:


> Ahh another sharpening thread......................... YAWN




New info on this one - never heard of Fallkniven. Thanks Jimi!


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## jimi43 (20 Oct 2014)

iNewbie":upa2jk0t said:


> Dangermouse.":upa2jk0t said:
> 
> 
> > Ahh another sharpening thread......................... YAWN
> ...



No worries mate...I just wanted to put up an honest review of something I was happy with...I have to say I have been through the usual gamut of systems so to find one that meets my needs was worth sharing...

It's up to others to decide what system they want to use... :wink: 

Jimi


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## DennisCA (21 Oct 2014)

bugbear":pas1xnqu said:


> DennisCA":pas1xnqu said:
> 
> 
> > Which ones are the ones that need to be straight, I have so far only ordinary planes and chisels to sharpen so far. A rebate and router plane are planned as well.
> ...



I am wondering, when I said camber, is this is what you thought I meant?
http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/camber.html

I was thinking more of the angle of the bevel itself, what Paul Sellers talks about when sharpening planes and chisels. The face of the actual cutting edge shouldn't become cambered unless you'd want to make it so using said freehand methods.


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## G S Haydon (12 Dec 2014)

Thanks for posting this Jim. I don't "need" one of these but stewie's link in Derek's thread had me curious so I've placed an order.


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## jimi43 (13 Dec 2014)

G S Haydon":3seantmb said:


> Thanks for posting this Jim. I don't "need" one of these but stewie's link in Derek's thread had me curious so I've placed an order.



No problems mate. As far as longevity goes...it's still just as effective.

Just don't press on the diamonds..let them do the cutting as is their wont!

Jimi


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (13 Dec 2014)

Why are these stones termed "ceramic"? I would have thought "diamond/saphire" stone would be more appropriate. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## JohnPW (13 Dec 2014)

I asked about "ceramic" stones on the forum before, eg the Spyderco ones and it's apparently named after the binding material. But then man made stones in general are all "ceramic" as the abrasive and a binding material is fired together. So I guess "ceramic" refers to a much harder binder.

As mentioned up thread "synthetic sapphires" sounds a lot better than plain old aluminium oxide, as in india stones!


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## swagman (24 Dec 2014)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Why are these stones termed "ceramic"? I would have thought "diamond/saphire" stone would be more appropriate.
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek



http://www.fallkniven.com/en/shop/detai ... ners/dc521


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