# Series 2, land rover, soft top



## doctor Bob (5 Jul 2021)

I know there are a lot of Land rover guys on here.
My neighbours hobby is doing up cars, over the last 5 years he's done a couple I have seen and they are proper nut and bolt jobs. Absolutely immaculate.
He has just bought and expensive project and has offered me his series 2 soft top landrover SWB. It's mint. Don't know about history at present or even milage.
He wants to sell to fund the new project.
Anyone got some knowledge of series 2 prices?


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## Rorschach (5 Jul 2021)

Whatever it costs to buy it will pale in comparison to the cost of running it


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## doctor Bob (5 Jul 2021)

Rorschach said:


> Whatever it costs to buy it will pale in comparison to the cost of running it



Not really, because it's a classic it will be driven very little and classic insurance is very cheap, I have a car from 1979 and it's peanuts compared with a modern car.


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## Phil Pascoe (5 Jul 2021)

It's ok, you can afford to keep it in half shafts.


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## Blackswanwood (5 Jul 2021)

Bob, there is a firm in Thirsk called John Brown 4x4. I have toyed with the idea of getting a classic from them. Series 2 in good condition could easily be £30k plus some. They are always up for a chat so may be worth giving them a call and asking what they have and prices to get a ballpark figure.


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## Beanwood (6 Jul 2021)

Does he have a price in mind?
If it's that good it's going to be at least £5k absolute minimum.
Never had a problem with half shafts @Phil Pascoe unless it was a V8?


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## niemeyjt (6 Jul 2021)

Beanwood said:


> Does he have a price in mind?
> If it's that good it's going to be at least £5k absolute minimum.
> Never had a problem with half shafts @Phil Pascoe unless it was a V8?


I did - when towing - a back one went doing a hill start - and as the freewheel hubs were engaged I could not engage 4WD and hold it in the hand brake.

Bog standard 2¼


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Jul 2021)

Beanwood said:


> Does he have a price in mind?
> If it's that good it's going to be at least £5k absolute minimum.
> Never had a problem with half shafts @Phil Pascoe unless it was a V8?


No, just a standard one. I knocked out several. I loved it, but it was a dreadfully unreliable vehicle.


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## Blackswanwood (6 Jul 2021)

Beanwood said:


> Does he have a price in mind?
> If it's that good it's going to be at least £5k absolute minimum.
> Never had a problem with half shafts @Phil Pascoe unless it was a V8?


£5k absolute minimum? More like £25k/£30k as described.


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## doctor Bob (6 Jul 2021)

Blackswanwood said:


> More like £25k/£30k as described.



Yes he's mentioned a figure between those two.
As mentioned, it was a proper nut and bolt restoration, quite amazing, it took him 3 years to complete. At one point I thought he had lost the plot as it was literally in many thousands of pieces. Painting done by a pro shop, chassis was powder coated I think or galvanised, I need to check on these things, he has it in staorage at present. I'm of the opinion that it probably isn't going to lose money as it's an iconic vehicle, where as my lotus will eventually drop again in value as it's more of a generation car.


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## Fergie 307 (6 Jul 2021)

Ah, if you run a Lotus then a Land Rover will be reliability personified by comparison


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## doctor Bob (6 Jul 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> Ah, if you run a Lotus then a Land Rover will be reliability personified by comparison



It's a myth, Lotus Esprit S2 JPS, 1979. Never broken down in 3 years, headlights have caused a few issues but overall it's been a pleasure and very cheap classic ownership.


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Jul 2021)

Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.


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## novocaine (6 Jul 2021)

Ahhh the taunts of a car owner to the car enthusiast. revel in the glory Bob.  
(just joking about Phil) 
depending on how original he went with his rebuild it could be a good buy or a money pit. I've helped in the rebuild of a few S2 and S2a, mainly doing some welding, typically on the outriggers. they have their issues, nothing that can't be dealt and definitively nothing that a good service and maintenance routine isn't going to help prevent. 30k is steep in my eyes (but they are tainted by the real world rather than the classic and fashion market), 25k for a good restro is believable I think. the S2 isn't quite as iconic as an S1 or the defender for that matter but it has it's place. 

my gripe is that they are rather agricultural, but I can see why that is a selling point to some. 
if you have the beans, go for it, but remember that buying a car from a mate is always a path to annoyance, I mean, how can you puppy about the PO if it's the PO you are talking too?


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## Rorschach (6 Jul 2021)

If it will make you happy, buy it, but I don't think it's possible to make the case for it being a reliable, cheap form of transport unless used for short fun trips out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it has to be reliable or cheap if it isn't your daily driver. 

I think it highly unlikely that whatever you pay for it, you won't lose money should you want to sell it later on.


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## skeetstar (6 Jul 2021)

Fun vehicles, utterly basic. Mine were reliable, usually easily fixed when they did have problems. Parts are easy to come by, but so much of what is on the market is world-changing trash, and the best quality worthwhile parts cost more.

What you get..
Cheap to run except on fuel, I'd get 21mpg on a run with overdrive. Off road, a fraction of that.
Cachet.
The pinnacle of British automotive engineering.
A never ending battle against rust.

What you don't get..
Legroom, (109s have more than the 88s though)
Cargo space though see legroom above.
Comfort,
The ability to drive at over 45mph without thinking that Armageddon is happening under the bonnet.
Somewhere for your right elbow.
Heat from the heater.
Security, esp with a soft top.

I've video of one of my mates in his s2 88 rescuing a stuck jeep wrangler in Wales, oh how we laughed.


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## dickm (6 Jul 2021)

According to Son-in-law in the USA, one way to make a fast buck is to buy old Landrover in the UK, tart it up a bit and ship to the states, where they will pay up to $75k for one. But there speaks a man who had a Lotus Elise...................


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## JAW911 (6 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I know there are a lot of Land rover guys on here.
> My neighbours hobby is doing up cars, over the last 5 years he's done a couple I have seen and they are proper nut and bolt jobs. Absolutely immaculate.
> He has just bought and expensive project and has offered me his series 2 soft top landrover SWB. It's mint. Don't know about history at present or even milage.
> He wants to sell to fund the new project.
> Anyone got some knowledge of series 2 prices?


What price is he asking? If it is mint then the expensive work will have been done. Keep it clean and properly serviced at least annually and you will love it. I gave a Series 3 which is serviced/maintained twice a year and no issues. Love it.


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## akirk (6 Jul 2021)

have you driven one?
I have owned a SI / SII / SIIa - they are hugely characterful cars, lots of fun, terribly slow, easy to fix, and don't steer... it doesn't seem to matter what tyres you have them on the steering wheel only maintains a loose relationship with the direction in which you are heading... mind you the 2a I had developed a gearstick personality disorder as it would rotate, and you never quite knew which direction to move it to change gear!

would I have another - yes, as a heart decision, they are a classic and always will be - their prices have increased substantially, driven by 90 / 110 / defender prices rising, and if you just want local potter down to the pub type of a car, then they are perfect - for any longer journeys no. Head decision though would never buy another - I know that I would buy one and get frustrated with its short-comings, and then sell it... and return as I keep doing to classic range rovers which are just so much more comfortable!


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## Jameshow (6 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> Yes he's mentioned a figure between those two.
> As mentioned, it was a proper nut and bolt restoration, quite amazing, it took him 3 years to complete. At one point I thought he had lost the plot as it was literally in many thousands of pieces. Painting done by a pro shop, chassis was powder coated I think or galvanised, I need to check on these things, he has it in staorage at present. I'm of the opinion that it probably isn't going to lose money as it's an iconic vehicle, where as my lotus will eventually drop again in value as it's more of a generation car.


Do you think your lotus will depreciate? 

I doubt it unless you let it go to pieces. 

Possibly the most iconic sports car of its day after the e type, gt40, Ferrari testarossa etc. 


Cheers James


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## nickds1 (6 Jul 2021)

25 to 30k sounds reasonable. There are plenty of Land Rover Facebook fora where you can get a more informed answer.

I'm restoring a '93 200Tdi 90 SW at the moment.

Mechanically it's sorted.

Cosmetically, a criminal offence.

However, with the important (below the waist) stuff done, the rest can wait (for the budget to recover).

What's the old adage? Don't look at the mantelpiece whilst stoking the fire?


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## hairy (6 Jul 2021)

I had a series 3 lightweight petrol soft top from about 1991 to 2002. Some of that was 2 years as a daily commuter from Ongar to Lakeside mostly via the M25, with one six week trip around the perimeter of France with the sides rolled up, some off roading but mostly daily use throughout. It was fab. I waded too deep once putting gritty water in the standard air intake and in my ignorance still drove home to Ongar from near Reading on the M25. that engine rebuild was the only major work it had. The only time it let me down was parking at the end of a days driving on a side slope with an empty tank. The next morning I had forgotton about fuel level and was confused why it wouldn't start until I swapped to the full tank.
You dressed as if you were outside. The heater was ok, but you would have to scrape ice off the inside till the engine got warm.
It did have 7.50R16 mud terrains which meant you could cruise with the lorries. Drive slightly slower than that and it couldn't stay there. Maybe 18mpg.
A series 2, with deep sills and inboard headlights can be a pretty thing, but I wouldn't pay more than 10K for one however shiny it was.

I also had a 93 200Tdi 90 which was more capable but not as fun


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## doctor Bob (6 Jul 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Do you think your lotus will depreciate?
> 
> I doubt it unless you let it go to pieces.
> 
> ...


Thanks James, I think my JPS is probably one of the best out there, prices have risen very quickly on these. However, ask a 30 year old bloke about an Esprit and they have never heard of it, the 40 year olds are buying capri's, cosworths, golf GTi's, 3 series. The esprit is a generation car in my opinion and once the 50+'s stop wanting them the market will go down, just look at pre war and a bit post war cars. The land rover on the other hand is an icon and my son at 20 still thinks they are very cool.

Heres mine, always like a pic


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## Jameshow (6 Jul 2021)

Well that's good cause I'm up for an esprit once the kids have flown the nest!!

That's if the gov allows us to drive them!! 

Cheers James


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## novocaine (6 Jul 2021)

I looked in to a EV conversion for the mk1 golf, I stopped looking when I reach 10k and no guarantee it would even be doable. it has been done. twice apparently, which leaves me somewhat nervous of doing it. even better, I'd still have to pay RFL on it. pipe dreams, who knows, one day. I reckon your door wedge would be a car I'd considered it on, as long as I could return it to a burner still. 

lovely car. but I'm 40 soooooooo.


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## 1steven (7 Jul 2021)

Go for it


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## hairy (7 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> Thanks James, I think my JPS is probably one of the best out there, prices have risen very quickly on these. However, ask a 30 year old bloke about an Esprit and they have never heard of it, the 40 year olds are buying capri's, cosworths, golf GTi's, 3 series. The esprit is a generation car in my opinion and once the 50+'s stop wanting them the market will go down, just look at pre war and a bit post war cars. The land rover on the other hand is an icon and my son at 20 still thinks they are very cool.
> 
> Heres mine, always like a pic


I just turned 50 so maybe I must buy one immediately?


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## dickm (7 Jul 2021)

Totally irrelevant, but nearly 60 years ago, where I worked we had an early Landrover to get to out-of-the-way experiments. One of the habits I and several other drivers developed when the LR was idling was resting hand on the flat top of the gear lever, ready to put it into gear to start off. One cold winter's morning (we had winters then!) three of us were sitting in the front seats waiting. The guy who was driving was wearing thick gloves, and put his hand down on top of the gearlever as he thought. Only when the "gearlever" moved did he realise it was the knee of the female colleague in the middle seat. Good job we were a friendly lot.


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## Spectric (7 Jul 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.


But you are overlooking what makes a LR a LR and that is they are nothing more than a big mechano set, everything bolts together and is simplistic, no electronic's and basic engineering. Biggest enemy is corrosion but apart from that parts cheap and easy to fit. I intend to put my LR90 with a 300TDi back on the road soon and get some use out of her.


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## marcros (7 Jul 2021)

Spectric said:


> But you are overlooking what makes a LR a LR and that is they are nothing more than a big mechano set, everything bolts together and is simplistic, no electronic's and basic engineering. Biggest enemy is corrosion but apart from that parts cheap and easy to fit. I intend to put my LR90 with a 300TDi back on the road soon and get some use out of her.



Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious is an acronym for LOTUS not LR!


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## doctor Bob (7 Jul 2021)

marcros said:


> Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious is an acronym for LOTUS not LR!


It is but it's a bit of a myth.


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Jul 2021)

Spectric said:


> But you are overlooking what makes a LR a LR and that is they are nothing more than a big mechano set, everything bolts together and is simplistic, no electronic's and basic engineering. Biggest enemy is corrosion but apart from that parts cheap and easy to fit. I intend to put my LR90 with a 300TDi back on the road soon and get some use out of her.


L . O. T. U. S. .... 

Sorry, posted before reading Marcross.


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## Spectric (7 Jul 2021)

Been so long since working on a Lotus I forgot that one but cannot recal them being that bad, no worse than other manufactured type kit cars like the De Tomasso Pantera and such. I do remember though that the gearbox/transaxle is french, they fitted it in the front and Lotus stuck it towards the rear. Also it was a shame that although it had Italian looks like a Lambo they did not use something like a V12 but then the Lotus is better as an all round car even in towns.


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## doctor Bob (7 Jul 2021)

Spectric said:


> Also it was a shame that although it had Italian looks like a Lambo they did not use something like a V12



The point Colin Chapman wanted to prove was that lightness meant you didn't need to bang in a V12.
Although is was far from super car performance, I think top in mine was about 130mph where as the lambo's etc were nudging 170mph


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## powertools (7 Jul 2021)

As someone who has spent his working life in the motor trade and has had many classic cars pass through my hands and have restored many others for other owners I am just wondering what is your motivation for wanting to own more than 1 classic vehicle.


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## doctor Bob (7 Jul 2021)

powertools said:


> As someone who has spent his working life in the motor trade and has had many classic cars pass through my hands and have restored many others for other owners I am just wondering what is your motivation for wanting to own more than 1 classic vehicle.



I don't know really, seems harmless and fun, I can afford it, no debts, business flying.
Sometimes you don't need a reason, to be honest I'm looking at 2 motorbikes as well this weekend.


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## mikej460 (7 Jul 2021)

A professionally restored Series is a joy but don't expect too much from it and use it for local trips and country shows (oh and pulling cars out of snow drifts). I have a lovely TD5 Defender which was a 60th birthday present and I absolutely love it (see my avatar). Mechanically it is rock solid but the bodywork soaks cash, mostly galvanic corrosion.. and it leaks like a sieve no matter what you do but it's great fun; a little more refined than the Series mind you.

Buy Landrover mags with a For Sale section to gauge prices but given the effort and obvious expense he's put into it I suspect the price will be very high, more than a TD5 Defender and that's saying something.


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## Jameshow (7 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> The point Colin Chapman wanted to prove was that lightness meant you didn't need to bang in a V12.
> Although is was far from super car performance, I think top in mine was about 130mph where as the lambo's etc were nudging 170mph


Turbo / V8 must be much more competitive? 

Although would be a toss ups with a gt40 if I could afford one!!


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## doctor Bob (7 Jul 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Turbo / V8 must be much more competitive?
> 
> Although would be a toss ups with a gt40 if I could afford one!!


Yes but the turbo's and V8's were later than mine, turbo's were about 83 and v8's mid 90's, I'd take a GT40 as well


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## novocaine (7 Jul 2021)

fix or repair daily (FORD) 

Id take an AC Cobra (or quite a few of the kit versions) if you dont mind. Won't happen. So ill stick woth me little mk1 goof.


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## Jameshow (7 Jul 2021)

How about an ultima apparently MacLean used one as a mule to develop Thier own hypercars.

Cheers James


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## ey_tony (8 Jul 2021)

In the late 80s and early 90's I ran a petrol SWB 1968 Series 11A land rover with truck cab and canvas tilt which needed quite a bit of restoration including a half chassis which someone I knew fitted for me . The rest of the parts I fitted myself at the time were quite reasonable priced and very easy to fit. 

I bought it to tow a horse box for my two daughter's pony to take to shows. They also used to muck out and throw the material into the back and we'd drop it off on my friend's muck pile in his small-holding, the back of the LR was then hosed out ready for use again. It was the one vehicle where we didn't care whether our boots were clean or dirty. 

My late wife used it as a runabout for four years and loved driving it. She used work for the police in their station custody suite on shift work and it never let her down once and she could turn out in all weathers and know she'd get there even if there was a snow storm! I also used it as a tow vehicle for a caravan we purchased. A great all-round towing vehicle and no wonder it was the farmer's choice.

Mine was fitted with LR big steel wheels and tyres to match. They looked like truck tyres and the spare wheel was mounted on the bonnet which due to its weight made it almost impossible to lift and you had to peer over it when driving but it looked super with the head-lights mounted in the radiator grill and its galvanised girder-bumpers and adjustable height tow hitch.
I resprayed it and the wheels with Tractol paint which I bought from the local agricultural shop and it looked almost like new when I'd finished and when I eventually sold it a few years later, I was inundated with calls from potential buyers for weeks after it had gone on the first day.

A word of caution. The big wheels/tyres make the vehicle look great but If the LR is to be used for the purpose for which it was intended in 4WD in off-road farming type conditions such as towing in and out of fields etc then my advice would be to fit 'narrow' wheels. The narrow wheels don't look as good aesthetically but big tyres tend to sit on and slip on top of the soft surface rather than bite in. That's why most farmers never changed the wheels...the smaller ones were best.

However big tyres and wheels make the ride more comfortable, give better fuel economy and give more speed so there are benefits and trade-offs but I found when driving on even a few inches of snow with the big wheels, then I invariably had to engage 4WD as the big tyres, on the rear just didn't, even with excellent treads, dig in sufficiently unless there was plenty of weight in the back. 

There's no synchromesh on 1st and 2nd gear so it takes a bit of getting used to which means getting the revs correct when changing into lower gears on the move and they are a bit thirsty in comparison to a regular car but not that bad and once I'd gone over the vehicle and repaired what needed doing, it never cost much to run. Nothing went wrong as there wasn't much to go wrong.

Everything about a LR from that period shouts commercial. The old LWB models were not as good for towing as their SWB counterparts as the turning circle made them more difficult to handle so the SWB is the one to go for unless you want to carry people in the back where the LWB is better for that purpose.. They are primitive but very simple to maintain. The engines were really good and reliable and would run seemingly forever but the valve seals were prone to leaking hence there was often the ubiquitous cloud of blue smoke when first started up from cold. However, once they were warmed up the smoke invariably disappeared when restarting from warm which is why many were never repaired.

I look back with fond memories of my old SWB and if I was younger I might even have a go at buying another for restoration. They fetch amazing money and if bought right, will be a good longer term investment.


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## doctor Bob (8 Jul 2021)

I'm hopefully having a closer look at it this weekend, I think if we can agree on a price I'll probably have it.
I'll post pic's if it happens.


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## Bod (8 Jul 2021)

If my BiL's experience is anything to go by, then any LR, no matter how decrept, will be stolen!

Bod


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## Fergie 307 (8 Jul 2021)

skeetstar said:


> Fun vehicles, utterly basic. Mine were reliable, usually easily fixed when they did have problems. Parts are easy to come by, but so much of what is on the market is world-changing trash, and the best quality worthwhile parts cost more.
> 
> What you get..
> Cheap to run except on fuel, I'd get 21mpg on a run with overdrive. Off road, a fraction of that.
> ...


Pinnacle of British automotive engineering ??? Perhaps you are unaware that the prototype was based on a Jeep, and used Jeep running gear. I went on a factory visit back in the 80's and I can tell you the way they were put together was as agricultural as the vehicle itself, guys using hydraulic jacks to bend the doors so the would actually fit and so on. And you missed reliability off your list of things you don't get. I'm reminded of the old Aussie joke, " if you want to go into the cutback take a Land Rover, if you want to come back again take a Landcruiser ". Anyone in a Wrangler needing to be rescued by a Landie should hang their head in shame. I had a chuckle in the other direction when one of their 4x4 mags tested a brand new Range Rover and a Disco. Both broke down and had to be rescued by their "recovery" vehicle, an XJ Cherokee !!


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## Trainee neophyte (8 Jul 2021)

I grew up with everyone driving landrovers. Most of the neighbours had series II and III ex army beasts which had even fewer frills than normal. It was _the_ standard farm vehicle and can be used and abused as such, but in terms of actually driving, they are awful. I needed a 4x4 but Landrovers are virtually unknown here, so I went with what is ubiquitous which is a Japanese pickup. I couldn't believe the difference. I will never set foot in a land rover again, probably, which is is a good thing because I don't fit. Nobody fits. The theme tune for landrovers is here.

My advice to @doctor Bob is to take it for a _long_ test drive - the first 20 minutes will have huge grin factor, but then the pain will start: the deafness, the sore throat from shouting, left leg pain from the evil clutch, right elbow bruise, white finger disease from the (lack of) steering, and so on and so forth. You may love it - weirdly quite a lot of people do, despite everything. "Despite" is probably a really good word to sum up landrover aficionados, who love their landies despite pretty much everything.


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## doctor Bob (8 Jul 2021)

I think evryone is missing the fact that this is mint, it won't be used for ploughing, it will not go through mud, it will not be driven 200 miles in one hit. I imagine I'll do 200 miles a year in it, it will never see rain or a wet road, it will be garaged always.
It's a collectors item, but will make me smile. 
No one would drive the lotus for comfort and reliability either.


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## julianf (8 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> chassis was powder coated I think...



If the chassis is powdercoated, then that would significantly devalue the car, as you would have to wonder what other madness the builder had considered sensible.


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## selectortone (8 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I think evryone is missing the fact that this is mint, it won't be used for ploughing, it will not go through mud, it will not be driven 200 miles in one hit. I imagine I'll do 200 miles a year in it, it will never see rain or a wet road, it will be garaged always.
> It's a collectors item, but will make me smile.
> No one would drive the lotus for comfort and reliability either.


If covid has taught us anything it's that life is too short. If you can afford it buy the damn thing and have some fun.

I bought an MX-5 6 weeks ago. Never owned a roadster, always wanted one. See above.


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## doctor Bob (8 Jul 2021)

julianf said:


> If the chassis is powdercoated, then that would significantly devalue the car, as you would have to wonder what other madness the builder had considered sensible.



I shall find out, this is all guess work. May have been galvanised. I won't part with dough until I've had it looked at by a specialist, did the same thing with the lotus.


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## Spectric (8 Jul 2021)

Since they stopped making the real Defender all the earlier models have gone up in value, probably because they now only make SUV's and no proper all terrain vehicles.


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## julianf (8 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I shall find out, this is all guess work. May have been galvanised. I won't part with dough until I've had it looked at by a specialist, did the same thing with the lotus.



Powder over hot dip wouldn't be so bad, but would still make you wonder what they were thinking of.

I have a few landrovers. A 101, a couple of 300tdis and a modern one (fl2) which isn't really in the same class.

A 300tdi defender 110 is my "dream car". I just need to put it back together again.


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## paulrbarnard (8 Jul 2021)

Spectric said:


> Since they stopped making the real Defender all the earlier models have gone up in value, probably because they now only make SUV's and no proper all terrain vehicles.



I have the last real defender, a 110 CSW 300Tdi. It was all down hill from there Two owners from new. I bought it 17 years ago with 16000 miles on the clock. It is waiting for some spare cash to sort the body work out. The metal mice have been munching the alloy.


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## Spectric (8 Jul 2021)

A lot of people thought stainless fasteners were a good idea but with alloy body and steel the galvanic corosion could be worse. My old girl is a 300TDi and needs a new set of wheels and tyres plus some of the more common faults sorted like corroded front spheres and steering drop arm bearing.


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## novocaine (8 Jul 2021)

selectortone said:


> If covid has taught us anything it's that life is too short. If you can afford it buy the damn thing and have some fun.
> 
> I bought an MX-5 6 weeks ago. Never owned a roadster, always wanted one. See above.


Friend of mine has just bought one. Havent had the heart to ask when his salon opens.  
Fun facts. Series 1 and the mini share the same wheelbase. 
Mx5 and mini clubman do too. 
So i wonder........... mwah ha ha. Body swap.


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## Trainee neophyte (8 Jul 2021)

My fault - I don't get collecting. Things are for using, not polishing. In no way is that a criticism - different strokes etc. I would horrify most collectors by using your landrover for proper farmwork until such time as I wore it out. That's what Landrovers are for in my mind. For you it is pride of ownership and an investment. For me it's a very uncomfortable part of my youth, and we have Toyota and Mitsubishi to thank for advances in technology. 

BTW, why _won't_ you use it for plowing? It's fun, unless you have 500 acres to get done before it rains.


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## doctor Bob (8 Jul 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> My fault - I don't get collecting. Things are for using, not polishing. In no way is that a criticism - different strokes etc. I would horrify most collectors by using your landrover for proper farmwork until such time as I wore it out. That's what Landrovers are for in my mind. For you it is pride of ownership and an investment. For me it's a very uncomfortable part of my youth, and we have Toyota and Mitsubishi to thank for advances in technology.
> 
> BTW, why _won't_ you use it for plowing? It's fun, unless you have 500 acres to get done before it rains.



Wouldn't horrify me at all, if you want to blow big dough on a land rover and wreck it that's fine if it floats your boat. Would you really spend say £25k on a LR and wreck it or would you buy a beaten up one?
For me it's fun. a day out with the mrs in tow, take it to the beach etc, not sure pride comes into it, pride for me is mainly family, business and morals, investment, again I think I could make more by investing in other stuff.
Like you say horses for courses, my choices are harmless to others I hope.


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## Trainee neophyte (9 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> Would you really spend say £25k on a LR and wreck it or would you buy a beaten up one?


I don't see the value in an old landrover, and therein lies the problem. Oodles of people disagree with me, so I'm obviously in the minority (or just wrong). I knew a guy who collected 1950s buses - he thought they were fabulous, and I didn't get that, either. This is very much my failing, not yours.

I am absolutely sure that you and your landrover will be very happy together.


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## Blackswanwood (9 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> For me it's fun. a day out with the mrs in tow, take it to the beach etc,



I'd just let her travel in the passenger seat but each to their own


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> Wouldn't horrify me at all, if you want to blow big dough on a land rover and wreck it that's fine if it floats your boat. Would you really spend say £25k on a LR and wreck it or would you buy a beaten up one?
> For me it's fun. a day out with the mrs in tow, take it to the beach etc, not sure pride comes into it, pride for me is mainly family, business and morals, investment, again I think I could make more by investing in other stuff.
> Like you say horses for courses, my choices are harmless to others I hope.


As a Jeep man I'd rather spend quite a bit less money on a nice WW2 era military Jeep, a truly iconic vehicle, and a much better head turner/talking point than any Landie will ever be. But whatever floats your boat, if you love them, as many do, then go for it. It's your money and your fun, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Good luck with it.


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## novocaine (9 Jul 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> As a Jeep man I'd rather spend quite a bit less money on a nice WW2 era military Jeep, a truly iconic vehicle, and a much better head turner/talking point than any Landie will ever be. But whatever floats your boat, if you love them, as many do, then go for it. It's your money and your fun, doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Good luck with it.


how do you find getting parts for them?


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

novocaine said:


> how do you find getting parts for them?


First thing don't go near a dealer, unless you have a newish one. They are bloomin useless! normal consumables like filters brakes and so forth are available from any decent motor factor. For anything else there are a number of specialists in the uk, both specifically for Jeep, and for Amercan vehicles in general. I buy most stuff from specialist suppliers in the US. I recently had to replace a rear ABS sensor on my 93 Cherokee. £240 from the dealer. £240!!! For about four feet of wire with a magnet on the end. Hence the saying that Jeep stands for Just Empty Every Pocket ! $85 including delivery for a genuine NOS part from a specialist in Texas. There are also specialist suppliers for just the military Jeeps, whether Willys or Ford manufactured. Suffice to say I have Never had a problem getting spares, but then in 140,000 miles all the Cherokee has needed outside routine servicing are two water pumps and a throttle sensor. Had a new radiator too but that was owing to a crow head butting it at 70mph on the M11, can't really blame jeep for that one, or the poor old crow! Looking round at the moment for a nice TJ Wrangler, great fun but must be a 4litre, everyone I have ever known who bought the smaller engine regretted it, likewise really wants to be a manual if your are going to use it off road. Have owned four Landies, but never looked back since buying the first Jeep. Best one ever is an old CJ with the V8, awesome thing off road and great fun, very rare here now but still common across the pond.


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## Keith Cocker (9 Jul 2021)

Bod said:


> If my BiL's experience is anything to go by, then any LR, no matter how decrept, will be stolen!
> 
> Bod



I had a lovely Defender90 tdi that hardly gave an trouble whatsoever and was a joy to have. It was a 60th birthday/retirement present to my self. Had it three years kept on the drive at night. First time I ever left it on the road outside the house it was nicked and I never saw it again. Only consolation was that the insurance company gave me about £7k more than I paid for it. I’ve never got over the sadness and anger of loosing it.


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

And if you do have an auto, fit a decent thermostatically controlled oil cooler. The thing Jeep are pleased to call a transmission oil cooler is a POJ. A decent cooler and stat is less than £100, but a lot cheaper than having the box cook itself, especially if you do a lot of stop start driving in town, not uncommon for the standard set up to let go after 80-90k miles.


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## novocaine (9 Jul 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> And if you do have an auto, fit a decent thermostatically controlled oil cooler. The thing Jeep are pleased to call a transmission oil cooler is a POJ. A decent cooler and stat is less than £100, but a lot cheaper than having the box cook itself, especially if you do a lot of stop start driving in town, not uncommon for the standard set up to let go after 80-90k miles.


replying to this one but aimed at both. 
thanks. good information. 
we had both a Cherokee and in very quick order a grand Cherokee. both new from stealer so no real parts required. why was it in very quick order? well the you see, the Cherokee had a 3.0CRD. better known as a Mercedes van engine. also know as an injector spitter, it fired 2 of them out in 5 weeks of ownership. lesson learned, don't by a Merc.  (funny as a friend bought a sprinter with the same engine and had the same issue, I had to put a thread insert in for him, which was fun without the head off). the Grand was great, a bit utilitarian but towed well and it never got stuck in the mud at a race meet unlike a few far posher chunks of metal.


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## paulrbarnard (9 Jul 2021)

Keith Cocker said:


> I had a lovely Defender90 tdi that hardly gave an trouble whatsoever and was a joy to have. It was a 60th birthday/retirement present to my self. Had it three years kept on the drive at night. First time I ever left it on the road outside the house it was nicked and I never saw it again. Only consolation was that the insurance company gave me about £7k more than I paid for it. I’ve never got over the sadness and anger of loosing it.


That is my biggest fear with mine. I do have a few levels of additional security on it like tamper proof ignition, pedal locks, gear lock etc but the main thing I do is park a sacrificial Volvo XC40, wife's car, in front of it every night.


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

novocaine said:


> replying to this one but aimed at both.
> thanks. good information.
> we had both a Cherokee and in very quick order a grand Cherokee. both new from stealer so no real parts required. why was it in very quick order? well the you see, the Cherokee had a 3.0CRD. better known as a Mercedes van engine. also know as an injector spitter, it fired 2 of them out in 5 weeks of ownership. lesson learned, don't by a Merc.  (funny as a friend bought a sprinter with the same engine and had the same issue, I had to put a thread insert in for him, which was fun without the head off). the Grand was great, a bit utilitarian but towed well and it never got stuck in the mud at a race meet unlike a few far posher chunks of metal.


I don't know what the newer diesel ones are like but the old ones were dreadful. The Morini engines in the turbo diesel Cherokee XJ used to crack cylinder heads with monotonous regularity. Totally gutless and you only got 25 odd mpg versus 20 mpg for the 4 litre that would pull your house over, so always seemed pretty pointless to me. Mine runs on LPG with a Gas Italia multi point injection system. Still only 20 mpg, but it's 57p per litre. Put off getting another Wrangler because of the fuel consumption, but now that the long range auxiliary tanks have come down in price you can convert one of these to LPG without having to have the tank in the boot, you just transfer the pump etc to the auxiliary tank and put the gas tank in place of the original fuel tank under the floor, which is what I will be doing.


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> That is my biggest fear with mine. I do have a few levels of additional security on it like tamper proof ignition, pedal locks, gear lock etc but the main thing I do is park a sacrificial Volvo XC40, wife's car, in front of it every night.


Many moons ago I just used to fit a hidden micro paddle switch which triggered a relay controlling power to either the ignition or injection. Coupled up to a flashing Led somewhere if you want. Providing you hide the switch with some imagination, not in the glovebox, then this would still be quite effective as it is going to take some time to work out and bypass, and there are loads of suitable nooks and crannies where you can hide the switch on a Landie!


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## novocaine (9 Jul 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> Many moons ago I just used to fit a hidden micro paddle switch which triggered a relay controlling power to either the ignition or injection. Coupled up to a flashing Led somewhere if you want. Providing you hide the switch with some imagination, not in the glovebox, then this would still be quite effective as it is going to take some time to work out and bypass, and there are loads of suitable nooks and crannies where you can hide the switch on a Landie!


we used to do the same with a reed switch. put the magnet in the right place and the car starts. no evidence of it from the outside and completely hidden, impossible to get to in order to disable it.


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## Fergie 307 (9 Jul 2021)

novocaine said:


> we used to do the same with a reed switch. put the magnet in the right place and the car starts. no evidence of it from the outside and completely hidden, impossible to get to in order to disable it.


amusingly she I bought my then girlfriend a BMW automatic I fitted one of these. I removed the centre console and positioned the switch underneath it. To operate it you had to poke your finger in between the two sets of bristles in the gearlever slot, you could then feel the end of the switch and flick it up or down. I thought this was a very ingenious concealment, until I showed her how to use it. Her immediate observation was, " only a man could have though of putting it there, or do you think I'm a lesbian? " I remember being very red in the face when I contonned on. She obviously wasn't to bothered as we have now been married for 24 years!


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## AndrewS (9 Jul 2021)

@doctor Bob, just my tuppence worth as an owner of a handful of Series vehicles, including the current 1960 S2 and 1961 S2a:

I love them. They make me smile, they make others smile, they attract lots of waves from other motorists and, provided you’re comfortable with their limitations, they are instantly recognisable, timeless, classless icons. 

Regarding value, originality is all. How many components have been overhauled and preserved vs replaced? Aside from the obvious, e.g. engine, gearbox axles and registration number, little things like the carburettor, distributor, lights, switchgear, original accessories, etc. all make a big difference.
If in doubt, consult James Taylor’s excellent book:
Land Rover Series II and IIa Specification Guide.

There is a general preference for SWB (88”) petrol models but all will find a home.

As you’re likely aware, there is also a significant difference between a Series II (1958-1961) and a IIa; they may look near-identical but approx. four times more IIa’s were built.

Finally, the Series 2/2a club, forum and Facebook group is a fantastic resource, well worth the annual subs.

I hope it’s what you’re looking for and be sure to post a pic if you go for it!


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## alz (10 Jul 2021)

Having run a 1960 ex-army Lightweight Land Rover for years, I have more enjoyment out of driving it than any of the Discovery models I have owned. So I have been happily using the necessary meccano-build skills over past year or two to restore an ex-RAF '84 Lightweight - my wife says I am simply reliving my youth. 
True, I guess, as I even have the parts of an old Nissen hut that I rescued waiting to be rebuilt . If you remember Nissen huts then you can guess my age....


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## doctor Bob (10 Jul 2021)

The Land rover is lovely, absolutely mint, looks like it's out of a show room.
However a few things came up in a friendly discussion
we can't agree on a price
He is not 100% sure he wants to sell it
It's a series 3
i'm not sure I want a series 3

Hence we have left it for the moment.


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## akirk (11 Jul 2021)

For me the series three loses some of the character of the older ones but doesn’t gain enough of the benefits of a newer one - probably my least favourite- but to be fair still lovely characterful cars


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## alz (11 Jul 2021)

The Series 2 and 2A - and certainly the S1 - are the the machines to cherish. Reasonably priced ones can still be found but need to be checked carefully. My old '68 was a great find in a farm steading (barn) and took a bit of work, and the '84 I only bought as it was a Lightweight.
The demise of the Defender has led to ridiculous prices for Landies and I wouldn't pay big money for a S3 however pristine.


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## 1steven (12 Jul 2021)

Bod said:


> If my BiL's experience is anything to go by, then any LR, no matter how decrept, will be stolen!
> 
> Bod


Happened to my last one but did get her back


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## 1steven (12 Jul 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> That is my biggest fear with mine. I do have a few levels of additional security on it like tamper proof ignition, pedal locks, gear lock etc but the main thing I do is park a sacrificial Volvo XC40, wife's car, in front of it every night.


Do you have a tracker fitted? They are worth it.


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## paulrbarnard (12 Jul 2021)

1steven said:


> Do you have a tracker fitted? They are worth it.


Yes, complete with live tracking and move notifications to my email.


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## 1steven (12 Jul 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> Yes, complete with live tracking and move notifications to my email.


They found it then


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## paulrbarnard (12 Jul 2021)

1steven said:


> They found it then


It can give me a scare when I’m away on business if my wife uses it.


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## julianf (12 Jul 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> Yes, complete with live tracking and move notifications to my email.



Which one, out of interest?


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## paulrbarnard (12 Jul 2021)

julianf said:


> Which one, out of interest?


Skytag


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## Fergie 307 (13 Jul 2021)

1steven said:


> Do you have a tracker fitted? They are worth it.


I agree they are worthwhile, but also very easy to find if you have a suitable scanner which are very cheap nowadays. You need to be quick off the mark. If the thieves know their stuff they will probably find and remove it within the first hour or two.


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## alz (25 Jul 2021)

This is pic of my old S2 Lightweight Land Rover. Original rather than immaculate!
And me in an Austin Champ about 50 years ago!!


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## robgul (26 Jul 2021)

I shook off the Land Rover bug in about 2005 having had a few Discos as my on-road car since 1995 - and before that several 88s and a 109 . . . . . as well as




Series III 88 Station Wagon that my wife used as her car from about 1984 - 92

But this was really good fun back in the late 1980s . . an ancient Series I 88 for off-road trials with the Land Rover Clubs and the All Wheel Drive Club





Still interested in LRs - if the Premium Bonds come up with anything substantial I'll be off the dealer to buy a new Defender.


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## doctor Bob (26 Jul 2021)

So just an update, the Land rover is off the table as it's a series 3 and probably updated too much. Absolutely mint but following the advice on here, too much has been changed.
So I'm now getting something on 2 wheels. Hopefully a future classic but should be a lot of fun. I'll post it up when it arrives.


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## novocaine (26 Jul 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> So just an update, the Land rover is off the table as it's a series 3 and probably updated too much. Absolutely mint but following the advice on here, too much has been changed.
> So I'm now getting something on 2 wheels. Hopefully a future classic but should be a lot of fun. I'll post it up when it arrives.


A reliant going round a corner?


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## Jameshow (26 Jul 2021)

Austin Allegro I rekon! 

Cheers James


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## baldkev (27 Jul 2021)

I had a couple of s3's..... my recommendation would have been to buy an anchor, you'll need to throw it in the nearest hedge when you want to stop! If that doesnt work, just drive into the hedge, that usually did it


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## Fergie 307 (27 Jul 2021)

I can certainly endorse that. I remember braking as something that definitely required forward planning!


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