# Axminster price increasing



## TRITON (18 Dec 2020)

Was just following a link to an extractor on the Axminster site and had a look at their table saws.
Most as per appear out of stock, but they do have the latest incarnation of the 'hobby' 216mm saw and including sliding table we're now looking at nearly £750
Previously the saw was £630, and thats from their 2019 catalog.
Ive their 254mm version, and complete that was including the sliding table and side extension cost £650- Currently its latest incarnation, excluding the side extension is just shy of £1000

So their basic saw has increased £120 in one year. Thats quite a jump. Not an extra 50 quid, but a serious percentage increase, and lets face it, its pretty much the same thing since about 2015.

Whereas I've always taken Axminster as a fair priced company, I think if adding to the machinery, I'll be looking elsewhere.

Interesting to note though is that in their sale, they've the 400mm AT400SB which is a serious saw and is priced at £3000. so 3 of their hobby models are equivalent in money to a pro saw that weighs 430kg and is likely going to outlast you.
Prices seem to have increased substantially across their range. Event he vertical panel saw in its basic form is £400 more expensive. I've no idea where they come up with these increase percentages.


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## Doug B (18 Dec 2020)

TRITON said:


> Whereas I've always taken Axminster as a fair priced company, I think if adding to the machinery, I'll be looking elsewhere.



they’ve always had what seems like very high price hikes, a mate was saying the other day that in 8 years his bandsaw has gone up in price over £1500


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## AJB Temple (18 Dec 2020)

Axminster has basically become a badger of Chinese imports. Affected by:
General price increases post Brexit so Ax may as well take a price rise punt (they can always discount)
Demand for woody stuff high as stocks now low
Currency volatility, especially forward FX as Axminster must contract a long way ahead, Forecast weak £
Container pricing very volatile
etc


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## robgul (19 Dec 2020)

Perhaps we've been cosseted with Axminster (and other suppliers) benefiting from China's unstoppable march towards world domination with massive volumes to flood the market and delivered at low/no margin cost at the manufacturer?
Have to agree that some of the stuff I've bought from Axminster/Yandles/Rutland/Screwfix and others in the past 18 months or so has increased in price - but then I've also noticed quite large increases in tools etc from Banggood and Aliexpress in the past 6 months - some almost doubling. Even the Aldi/Lidl tools have seen quite large increases too.


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## billw (19 Dec 2020)

It's also worth remembering there's a complex supply chain behind everything. An change in raw materials, labour costs, exchange rates, shipping rates, cost bases of wholesalers and retailers, plus much more could affect prices. If all of those shift upwards simultaneously you end up with the consumer facing a perfect storm. In healthier economic times some of the supply chain might take a hit on their own profitability to dampen the effect but right now I suspect everyone needs as much money as they can to survive.


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## D_W (19 Dec 2020)

Wages have gone up in China exponentially, and now manufacturing things like tools is no longer a top tier thing there. Other stuff like electronics is putting pressure on it. I'd be willing to bet they're marking up a mark up that was passed to them in the world of guitars, Indonesia has allowed a lot of production to bypass China, as the wages there are about a this of China's on average.


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## Misterdog (19 Dec 2020)

I forecast rampant inflation at the beginning of this pandemic. The worst is still to come IMO.
Businesses which survive will have to claw back the costs somehow.
Everyone from the raw material providers, through the manufacturers, logistics handlers to the retailers.


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## billw (19 Dec 2020)

D_W said:


> Wages have gone up in China exponentially, and now manufacturing things like tools is no longer a top tier thing there. Other stuff like electronics is putting pressure on it. I'd be willing to bet they're marking up a mark up that was passed to them in the world of guitars, Indonesia has allowed a lot of production to bypass China, as the wages there are about a this of China's on average.



Indeed China is already trying to pivot away from being a manufacturing-based economy to being a service-led one, an enormous acceleration of economic development in comparison to other nations.


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## D_W (19 Dec 2020)

I've posted this before, but in the last 15 years, they have:
* increased their consumption of rosewood by more than ten times (which has caused a crisis - this is related to middle class being able to afford rosewood items there)
* average wage increased (in less than 15 years) from $2000 to $7000 US equivalent. 

It's gotten to the point with a lot of items made in mexico here that there's no reason to shift them from mexico.


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## eribaMotters (19 Dec 2020)

I am not interested in Politics but strongly believe the main factor is Brexit and the economic volatility surrounding the unknown, especially over the next 3-5 years whilst a lot of things will settle and find a new level. 
Engineered products started climbing in price end of 2016, start of 2017. In June 2016 I ordered a new German caravan at an agreed price of £19.5K. When I collected it in Feb 2017 I had to insure it for £25K. 
In the coming years I'm not worried about tool costs as at nearly 60 I think I now have more than I need. I'm worried about food costs.

Colin


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## Misterdog (19 Dec 2020)

eribaMotters said:


> I am not interested in Politics but strongly believe the main factor is Brexit and the economic volatility surrounding the unknown, especially over the next 3-5 years whilst a lot of things will settle and find a new level.



Though the machines which Axminster import are all mostly from China, which is outside of the EU.


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## D_W (19 Dec 2020)

That sounds like a tinfoil hat theory. It isn't that difficult to import machines from china. This is a far different thing than trying to coordinate production in the UK for something that uses critical parts that can only be gotten from global suppliers. 

The same increases have been occurring in the US for years. First, it was the taiwanese items (which replaced american) and then the flow to china when taiwan was deemed too expensive. There will be another china.

I just checked the price of a 3hp tablesaw with a phenolic fence here in the states - from shop fox (grizzly's "anyone can sell it" brand). When I started woodworking, the same saw was about $1100 with freight, but sometimes sold for $900. 

It's $2000 now. 

raw inflation figures would put the expected price at about $1400. 

We have encountered no brexit and no considerable currency weakening. 

Maybe someone should actually ask axminster about the price increases instead of speculating that they're just greedy. It could be something as simple as distributors being sold to a new owner (which always brings a price increase. Jet/PM here has doubled the prices of their goods in the same timeframe that I mentioned, I believe they changed corporate hands at least once. In 2008, I bought a JWBS-18x. $1075 delivered from a local saw store here. 



https://www.amazon.com/JET-JWBS-18-1-75-hp-Bandsaw/dp/B01HZHAH6C/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Jet+jwbs-18&qid=1608385832&s=hi&sr=1-3



$2199

Minimally changed (a little bit more resaw capacity, but debatable about usability as mine had trouble resawing 12" accurately with a capacity just under 13" max).


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## Terrytpot (19 Dec 2020)

Bristol_Rob said:


> buy the Axminster base that I did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Terrytpot said:


> I don't know when you got yours but they seem to have increased the price a fair chunk...
> 
> View attachment 97678





Bristol_Rob said:


> I only bought that in July 2020


Yup...that's just under £60 raising to a nats under £90 in 4 months..inflation?


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## AJB Temple (19 Dec 2020)

Vendors are not trying to sell you goods as cheaply as they can. They are trying to sell for as much as they can get. Low stock and availability pushes prices up.


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## Linus (19 Dec 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> Vendors are not trying to sell you goods as cheaply as they can. They are trying to sell for as much as they can get. Low stock and availability pushes prices up.


Can't help but agree. Make hay whilst the sun shines or whatever adage one desires. I know the knock on effect is that seconhand prices have increased as well. I sold my old second-hand Axi hobby 10" bandsaw on fleabay recently. I paid £120 for it 5 years ago, used. The hammer fell at £295!!!!!!!!! My gast was flabbered.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

We have a global pandemic on.
The markets have largely been scared of the result of the referendum.
The implementation of the referendum will happen next month, with all the increased transport costs that will bring, and likley further drop of the pound.

It's ok though, as we can just open the factories again.


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## Misterdog (20 Dec 2020)

Though China is not part of the EU, over 50 % of our trade is outside of the EU.
Why would transport costs between China and the UK increase ?

How does Brexit account for the increased costs in the USA experienced by @D_W in post 12 above.


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## AJB Temple (20 Dec 2020)

One answer - container costs have gone sharply up (in some cases tripled). 
The UK does not have lots of container ports and the ones we do have are clogged with containers currently because of the Brexit situation (Calais likewise). The same import channels are used irrespective of origin so a bottleneck affects all sources. 
Shipping times from China have increased - time is money I suppose. 
Customs clearance will be affected by Brexit as well - the same people are dealing with all sources so any delay has a knock on effect. Shippers and import/export handlers build this in to the pricing. Pricing is short termist and volatile. 

USA / China issues are very different. We know that there is a trade war going on but I am not knowledgeable about it.


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## marcros (20 Dec 2020)

julianf said:


> We have a global pandemic on.
> The markets have largely been scared of the result of the referendum.
> The implementation of the referendum will happen next month, with all the increased transport costs that will bring, and likley further drop of the pound.
> 
> It's ok though, as we can just open the factories again.


And eat all of our fish.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> Though China is not part of the EU, over 50 % of our trade is outside of the EU.
> Why would transport costs between China and the UK increase ?
> 
> How does Brexit account for the increased costs in the USA experienced by @D_W in post 12 above.



If the pound falls, all imports become more expensive, regardless of what may or may not be happening in the usa.
If all our ports are overwhelmed with delays due to brexit, non EU trade going through the same ports will also suffer.
If all our pallet firms are overwhelmed by the additional cost of EU paperwork processing, they are unlikely to perfectly differentiate the passing on of these additional costs to EU goods only. Likely (but obviously arguably, unlike the previous two points) they will try and add a premium to all goods in order to smooth things out.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

marcros said:


> And eat all of our fish.



Seriously though, one upside of it all is that, from January onward, the NHS is going to get £350m a week extra. Couldn't have come at a better time, considering the pandemic.


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## D_W (20 Dec 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> One answer - container costs have gone sharply up (in some cases tripled).
> The UK does not have lots of container ports and the ones we do have are clogged with containers currently because of the Brexit situation (Calais likewise). The same import channels are used irrespective of origin so a bottleneck affects all sources.
> Shipping times from China have increased - time is money I suppose.
> Customs clearance will be affected by Brexit as well - the same people are dealing with all sources so any delay has a knock on effect. Shippers and import/export handlers build this in to the pricing. Pricing is short termist and volatile.
> ...



There's a trade war here but it has practically no effect on thing like power tools. Wmh group or whoever owns jet has steadily increased price over a decade. They did do a hike shortly after I got my bandsaw, but I'm guessing that was more of an internal decision to just charge more.

Grizzly has seen similar price increases, but somewhat less universal across their lines. If we used normal retailers here for power tools, they'd likely be up a little higher yet. Amazon bought some company around 2006 or so that sold tools on the internet and as the guys at highland hardware described, made it not worth trying to sell them.

Rockler and woodcraft sell them still, but their prices and freight terms are pretty scrappy and only for the most timid of customers who really think that's going to result in some kind of plus after the sale service. Just my opinion, but I don't think most people complaining about power tool price tag would import and sell them for the same price. It's sort of like people complaining about $1300 us made guitars at retail. "I see no reason why this guitar isn't $500" . Ok, that's almost exactly the cost of labor and regulations, would you like one made of air so that it can be teleported to you?

If it were that profitable, someone would just come in and undercut it. The brexit excuse just sounds like finger pointing wishing something were true for argument's sake.


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## Misterdog (20 Dec 2020)

D_W said:


> The brexit excuse just sounds like finger pointing wishing something were true for argument's sake.



Nail on head there. Some will blame Brexit for everything over the next ten years to 'prove' that their opinion was correct.
I'm surprised no one has blamed the Covid 19 virus on Brexit yet, or have they.
Covid has already had a more profound effect on our economy than many of our neighbours, though some will be blaming it on Brexit before it has even happened.

The next ten 10/20 years are likely to be grim enough from the effects of Covid without having to listen to all the keyboard experts blaming it on Brexit.

Still as long as we all pull together eh ?

Watching the US election it seems their society is even more divided than ours. Though hopefully they will have seen what happened here and never decide to have a referendum - over anything.


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## Misterdog (20 Dec 2020)

julianf said:


> the NHS is going to get £350m a week extra



That figure was from the year of the election in 2016, we have been paying more into the EU since then.
Oh and it's a gross (sic) figure not a nett one.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

D_W said:


> If it were that profitable, someone would just come in and undercut it. The brexit excuse just sounds like finger pointing wishing something were true for argument's sake.



The pound has never recovered to its pre-referendum value. This is a statement of fact, as is the fact that imported goods become more expensive with a weaker currency. I don't mean to patronise, but to say it isn't a reason is, well, to quote you again "wishing something were true for argument's sake"


And this is only the run up to the main event.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> That figure was from the year of the election in 2016, we have been paying more into the EU since then.
> Oh and it's a gross (sic) figure not a nett one.



Does that mean the NHS is going to get more than the £350m then?

The bus clearly said £350m a week. "Let's [Let us] spend it on our nhs instead".

So we voted, and they're going to do it, right? I mean, we knew what we were voting for...


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## Anthraquinone (20 Dec 2020)

Also all the energy we buy in the form of coal, oil or gas is priced in US$. As the pound falls that addition cost has to be passed on to the UK consumer. Just before the Brexit vote sterling was at about £1.55 overnight, after the vote, it fell to $1.25. That alone has been costing the UK millions each week.


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## Anthraquinone (20 Dec 2020)

We ought to run a sweepstake on what the value of the £ will be on the 2nd January. Something between 1£ = 1$ to £1 = 1.50 ???


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## Misterdog (20 Dec 2020)

Anthraquinone said:


> We ought to run a sweepstake on what the value of the £ will be on the 2nd January. Something between 1£ = 1$ to £1 = 1.50 ???




Maybe as low as when the last Labour government were in power, Jan 2009 ?

$ 1.37 which of your Brexit dreams did you use then ?




> This is a statement of fact, as is the fact that imported goods become more expensive with a weaker currency.



Is this what you said to Gordon Brown at the time ?


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

Anthraquinone said:


> We ought to run a sweepstake on what the value of the £ will be on the 2nd January. Something between 1£ = 1$ to £1 = 1.50 ???



Its ok, we wont actually need money.

You have to remember that we hold all the cards.


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## julianf (20 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> Is this what you said to Gordon Brown at the time ?



I'm quite certain that Gordon Brown wouldn't need this explaining to him. 

If you have an event, be it a international banking crisis, or an unfortunate referendum result, that causes a countries currency to fall, then imported goods become more expensive - most people can grasp it, its really basic economics.

Or were you blaming the 2008 crisis on Gordon Brown? I don't think that was any more his fault than Covid was our current fearless leaders fault.

There are, however, plenty of economic experts who credit Gordon Brown with some quite skilful economic policy over that period, just like there plenty of scientific experts who credit Borris Johnson with quite skilful scientific policy during the pande.....


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## TFrench (20 Dec 2020)

Thrilling as all the political brexiteering "he said, she said" waffle is, take it to the off topic area before this gets locked...


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## Dr W (21 Dec 2020)

Meanwhile, getting back to Axminster... 
I don't shop with them often enough to comment on the price hikes but they do seem to be losing the plot on customer service. They messed up my recent order, forgetting to send the main item (even though it was in stock). These things happen - every company makes the odd screw-up - what matters is how they respond afterwards. On this occasion Axi Customer Services showed very little interest in rectifying their error. Even after promising a refund for the missing item, they didn't actually get round to doing it until after I reminded them a week later. Hate to say it but I'll be avoiding them in future unless there's absolutely no alternative.


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## Misterdog (21 Dec 2020)

What is happening in China may have more effect than Brexit, shock horror.





> However China's president surprised the UN gathering by making a bold statement about his country's plans for tackling emissions.
> He called on all countries to achieve a green recovery for the world economy in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.
> According to the official translation, Mr Xi went on to say:
> "We aim to have CO2 emissions peak before 2030 and achieve carbon neutrality before 2060."
> Until now China has said it would peak its emissions by 2030 at the latest, but it has avoided committing to a long-term goal.



It all has to be paid for somehow.

Then VAT at 20% is added to any other cost increases, and is borne by the consumer.


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## Jake (21 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> That figure was from the year of the election in 2016, we have been paying more into the EU since then.
> Oh and it's a gross (sic) figure not a nett one.



The cost of Brexit to date exceeds the total of all UK membership contributions ever paid to the EU.


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## Misterdog (21 Dec 2020)

We've stopped discussing peoples opinions on Brexit as it is off topic.


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## clogs (21 Dec 2020)

out of interest,
roughly 1 year ago a freind was paying just over £500's or the Dollar equiv for a forty foot container from China to the UK...
and I was quoted €1400 for the same size container from Bordox,FR to Chania Crete......

whilst the waters are muddy the greedy ones take advantage.....I for one will never buy any machines from AX, *EVER....*
even if it cost's more to buy from a mum n pop place...they want recomends and repeat customers.....


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## partsandlabour (21 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> We've stopped discussing peoples opinions on Brexit as it is off topic.


It can't be 'off-topic' , it's going to come into play whenever the subject of price increases/imports of equipment etc. comes up.


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## Misterdog (21 Dec 2020)

partsandlabour said:


> It can't be 'off-topic' , it's going to come into play whenever the subject of price increases/imports of equipment etc. comes up.



Possibly, if the imports were from the EU.


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## mr rusty (21 Dec 2020)

As a smallish UK manufacturer of industrials (TO ~£6M), we've had a cracking good end to the year -order book was great for Nov-Dec. We are definitely seeing some "re-shoring" from our customers. Freight costs for our imports and exports have increased though recently. We're still a bit down year on year, from the first lockdowns but it's not all doom and gloom out there


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## Woody2Shoes (21 Dec 2020)

julianf said:


> Seriously though, one upside of it all is that, from January onward, the NHS is going to get £350m a week extra. Couldn't have come at a better time, considering the pandemic.


Don't forget the blue passports...


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## marcros (21 Dec 2020)

clogs said:


> out of interest,
> roughly 1 year ago a freind was paying just over £500's or the Dollar equiv for a forty foot container from China to the UK...
> and I was quoted €1400 for the same size container from Bordox,FR to Chania Crete......
> 
> ...



I haven't seen the history of your experience with axi, it may be on another thread. Buy from where you choose, that is your prerogative, but I thing that you are taking this too personally. If Axi or anybody are not selling at market rate, they wont sell much or anything. When buying a machine, look at the spec for what you want, compare out with what you need and compare the prices on offer. If Axi, Record, Jet, whoever all make a machine that fits the spec, then I doubt that there will be much between them all. If costs rise, prices will rise. If they fall, there may be an element of discounting (lol) but I doubt that any of the manufacturers or rebadges have used covid/brexit/shipping issues to increase their margins. I suspect that many of them are more concerned about survival. If they can even make the kit they cant get it to retailers to sell it.


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## Yorkieguy (21 Dec 2020)

Back in March this year, a chum with a limited budget and little workshop space who wished to take up woodturning to turn small bowls, pens and the like sought my advice about a suitable lathe. . The Axminster AC305 seemed to fit the bill – it’s 2ft between centres and 6 inches over the bed, has two electronically variable speed ranges on two belts: 500 to 2,040, which would suffice for most purposes, and 1,000 to 4,080RPM, (which he’d rarely need to use). It has a quiet smooth 550 Watt motor and the lathe bed, tailstock and headstock are all cast iron, so it's solidly built. It has a commonplace place spindle thread of 1" x 8TPI so accessories such as chucks, and faceplates will be widely available. It comes with several accessories and was well-priced at £350, with a three-year warranty.

As he’d had a pacemaker fitted (which resulted in him having to retire early as he was a TIG welder, which would have interfered with his pacemaker), he sought reassurances from his specialist that neither the lathe motor nor electronic speed control would affect the operation of the pacemaker. On his behalf I contacted Axminster ‘technical’ department to see if they had any information on this. Unsurprisingly, they didn’t – to a large extent they’re importers and marketers of mainly Chinese made equipment and have neither electronics nor medical expertise so were unable to help. 

Clinicians aren’t electronics experts either, so it took some time for him to eventually get assurances from the makers of the pacemaker and the NHS that he’d be fine if his pacemaker was at least 1ft away from the electronics. He was assured that though some equipment which emits EMI can disturb the correct operation of the pacemaker, it can't damage it. The advice is that if you are using any equipment that causes palpitations, to stop using it and the pacemaker will revert to normal operation.

By the time he’d received these assurances, the lathe had increased in price to £399.98 – a 14% increase in nine months.

Axminster Craft AC305WL Woodturning Lathe - 230V

Doubtless all of the factors mentioned in this thread have had an influence on the price, but of course the normal economic principles of supply and demand and market forces also come into play. If demand increases and supply is inflexible (at least in the short term), the price will increase to as high as the market will stand. During lockdown, the demand for hobby equipment and materials his increased markedly and supply has at best been static or has reduced. Hence, up goes the price.

In May, I bought an Axminster AC150BDS belt and disc sander for £119.95. I see that it's now £129.78, but is out of stock anyway (supply V demand). An increase of 8% in 7 months - an annual increase of 14%. Though many have been impoverished by the consequences of Covid this year, many others have not. Hobbyists are often retired and with high net disposable incomes, so tend not to be price sensitive. Another tenner wouldn't have stopped me buying the sander, nor would another £50 for the lathe if I was in the market for one:

Axminster Craft AC150BDS Belt & Disc Sander | Axminster Tools


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## marcros (21 Dec 2020)

Yorkieguy said:


> Back in March this year, a chum with a limited budget and little workshop space who wished to take up woodturning to turn small bowls, pens and the like sought my advice about a suitable lathe. . The Axminster AC305 seemed to fit the bill – it’s 2ft between centres and 6 inches over the bed, has two electronically variable speed ranges on two belts: 500 to 2,040, which would suffice for most purposes, and 1,000 to 4,080RPM, (which he’d rarely need to use). It has a quiet smooth 550 Watt motor and the lathe bed, tailstock and headstock are all cast iron, so it's solidly built. It has a commonplace place spindle thread of 1" x 8TPI so accessories such as chucks, and faceplates will be widely available. It comes with several accessories and was well-priced at £350, with a three-year warranty.
> 
> As he’d had a pacemaker fitted (which resulted in him having to retire early as he was a TIG welder, which would have interfered with his pacemaker), he sought reassurances from his specialist that neither the lathe motor nor electronic speed control would affect the operation of the pacemaker. On his behalf I contacted Axminster ‘technical’ department to see if they had any information on this. Unsurprisingly, they didn’t – to a large extent they’re importers and marketers of mainly Chinese made equipment and have neither electronics nor medical expertise so were unable to help.
> 
> ...



whilst this is a nice theory, an increase of 8% over the last 7 months is likely nothing to do with the reduced availability increasing the price. Many places have kept the price (or at least the margin) the same, and have simply sold out. Toilet roll sold out in supermarkets, they didn't jack the price up to a fiver a roll as a result. Axminster isnt the stock exchange.


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## Trainee neophyte (21 Dec 2020)

There are so many moving parts to this: first off a supply shock when China shut down its economy at the beginning of the year. Just as this started feeding through, there was as worldwide demand shock as everyone else shut down. Businesses now have no idea what the near term demand will be, so would be very brave to hold a full inventory. That would all be deflationary. They may not even be able to get China to fulfill orders, given their ongoing issues, 

9 months on it seems that there is high demand for goods, with reduced availibility. This is inflationary in its own right. Then we can add in Brexit, with its own supply problems, and probable currency devaluation which will also be inflationary. As I understand it, Axminster try to set their prices once a year with their new catalogue, and they have to do quite a bit of guessing as to what will come in the next year. I wouldn't want _that_ job.

Finally, don't forget that the UK, along with all major governments, is printing money like it is going out of fashion. Vast amounts of new cash are swilling around the system, which is also inflationary.

So, we have deflationary economic conditions, and inflationary economic conditions, and insane government borrowing and printing. If we suffer deflation the banks all implode immediately, hence the government printing. Can the government print enough? Will the economy stay on track? Is there, in actuality, an economy? Deutsche Bank hasn't caught fire yet, but it is just a matter of time before one of the "Too Big To fail" banks actually does fail, and then we are off to the races. Perhaps we have wheelbarrows of cash in our future, a la Weimar Germany. Perhaps we don't. However, in order to not default on the unpayable debt, the governments around the world need to inflate away their debt. That means high, but controlled, inflation. 14% per annum would be about perfect. Perhaps we should use Axminster as the new CPI, because the government statistics aren't remotely accurate, and never have been.

Or to put it another way, don't blame Axminster, blame government. It's their unresolved mess from 2009 that we are still struggling with.


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## Terry - Somerset (22 Dec 2020)

Most of the price increases are down to exchange rates and inflation since the referendum in 2016. 

General UK inflation is ~ 10% since 2016.

Pre referendum exchange rates compared to now:

- Euro ~ 1.30 : £. Now approx 1.10
- US$ ~ 1.45 : £. Now approx 1.32
- Chinese yuan ~ 10.5 : £. Now approx 8.8

So prices in the UK would have increased by ~15-20% because of exchange rate movements.

Total price increases since 2016 is 25-30%. Note that covid may have significant short term impacts on prices due to shortages, closed factories, shipping issues etc.


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## jackal (22 Dec 2020)

Jake said:


> The cost of Brexit to date exceeds the total of all UK membership contributions ever paid to the EU.


200 billion by the end of the year is expected


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## jackal (22 Dec 2020)

clogs said:


> out of interest,
> roughly 1 year ago a freind was paying just over £500's or the Dollar equiv for a forty foot container from China to the UK...
> and I was quoted €1400 for the same size container from Bordox,FR to Chania Crete......
> 
> ...


The cost of a container is reported to be 7000 now


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## Misterdog (22 Dec 2020)

Terry - Somerset said:


> Most of the price increases are down to exchange rates and inflation since the referendum in 2016.



Though for balance ignoring 'Brexit' bias.

Inflation in 2019.

UK. - 1.74 %
Germany - 1.45 %
China - 2.9 %


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## Misterdog (22 Dec 2020)

I touched on VAT earlier, it rose from 17.5 to 20% in 2011.
So there was 2.5 % of the increase, minimum. For just that one year alone.

However every time there is an increase in the factory price, or transport price this VAT is then added to that price. It is even added to the import tax levied on goods from outside of the EU.

Of course VAT has nothing to do with Brexit.......



> VAT has proved to be one of the EU's most enduring exports. However, the guaranteed fall in the popularity of any government that brings in new taxes has resulted in VAT rates round the globe generally undercutting the EU's. Japan levies 5%, and Switzerland 7.6%; Australia's VAT-modelled Goods and Services Tax (GST) rate is 10%. Canada has a GST rate of 5%, which is supplemented by various other local and provincial sales taxes



My brother lives in the US and has no sales tax !!
Imported goods there are generally 10/15 % cheaper than here.


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## billw (22 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> My brother lives in the US and has no sales tax !!
> Imported goods there are generally 10/15 % cheaper than here.



Some states do have sales tax, e.g. New York, and even more irritatingly some shops declare it on price tags and some add it at the till. It's about 8 or 9% too I think.


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## Terry - Somerset (22 Dec 2020)

jackal said:


> The cost of a container is reported to be 7000 now



Normal China-UK container was ~£1500 until end October, after which it started to rise rapidly to ~£4000 by early December. The spot market is highly volatile at present - covid issues??

A 40ft container holds (40x8x8) 2560 cu ft of product - based on a more normal shipping cost per container of ~£1500, cost per cu ft is ~70p. Customs clearance, insurance, other documentation etc is on to of this.

I find it extraordinary that it is so cheap - it probably costs almost as much to transport a container 300 miles from Hull to Axminster as 6000 miles from Shanghai to Hull.

The shipping cost element on total landed cost depends on the product value per cu ft. In a woodworking context:

lunchbox thicknesser, cost (say) £500, (say) 3 cu ft, £2 shipping
diy electric drill, cost (say) £80, (say) 0.5 cu ft, 40p shipping 
woodturning lathe, cost (say) £1500, (say) 6 cu ft, shipping £5
For say domestic appliances - washing machine, dishwasher etc - 2x2x3=12 cu ft the cost the cost per appliance would be ~ £10.

Shipping costs may be a contributury element in Axminster price increases, but it may evidence how they want to position themselves in the market. Premium brands for well heeled hobbyists who are able and content to pay for the best, and knowledgable professional woodworkers who value reliable performance over lowest cost.

Cheapskate hobbyists like me who are happy to spend a couple of hours on internet research to save £20 on a £200 purchase may no longer be Axminster chosen niche - although I do hope the maintain their generally very good levels of customer service.


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## Droogs (22 Dec 2020)

Price may be going up but component quality is definitely going down. It looks the same as it always did but the bits inside are nowhere near as good as they used to be. They are fast approaching a similar position with regards quality and reliability of the kit they sells as I hold Rutlands to be at. Yes Axi have always had good to very good customer service but I don't buy things to have a relationship with a company's customer service department but to avoid it completely


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## Mead Camans (22 Dec 2020)

Droogs said:


> Price may be going up but component quality is definitely going down. It looks the same as it always did but the bits inside are nowhere near as good as they used to be. They are fast approaching a similar position with regards quality and reliability of the kit they sells as I hold Rutlands to be at. Yes Axi have always had good to very good customer service but I don't buy things to have a relationship with a company's customer service department but to avoid it completely


Perhaps this is getting on a slight side tangent with regards to the original post, but I have to second this motion. The quality of recent Axminster machinery has made me question buying kit from them again. The space I work in is letted to me by a larger company who a few months ago purchased a brand new Axi AT254PS13 panel saw and an AT60E extractor, retailing at £1349 and £719 respectively, and they have been kind enough to let me use this machinery on the weekends while I've been without my own. I've not been overly impressed with my experiences.

Starting with the saw, the rip fence lock comes loose during use, meaning that your cuts get incrementally wider with each pass. The plastic handle had since fallen off making locking the fence even more difficult. The motor has also overheated and cut out after half an hour of continued use.

The extractor developed a leak not long ago, which means that during use, it spews fine dust into the air from a gap in the seam of its body work. I slapped a bit of duct tape over it which did the trick, but its still unacceptable if you ask me. Never had that with any other kit, no matter how "affordable".

All I can say is that if these were actually my machines that I'd paid money for, I'd be pretty cheesed off.


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## alex_heney (22 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> My brother lives in the US and has no sales tax !!



So which state out of Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire or Oregon does he live in?

Those are the only US states with no sales tax.

Others vary between 2.9% and 9.98%.


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## Arnold9801 (22 Dec 2020)

I stopped buying from them a few years ago after I felt was greedy and gutsy price increases. I don’t even have their catalogue anymore such I said my distaste for Axminster Power Tools.

They’ve lost the plot and I’ve lost interest in them so won’t give them a penny of mine anymore.


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## ivan (23 Dec 2020)

Things certianly have been going up in price. We have rellies in the US and brought home a lot of goodies in the mid '70's when £1 bought you $2.30,and airlines still gave you 35Kg allowance. I guess it's always been that way, as my father referred to 5 bob as a dollar - there were once 4 $ to a pound...
I think the rot set in at Axminster as the generations iin charge changed. Once they had small overcrowded premises and very tight pricing. Dad retires, new build, grand new base and warehouse developed, new branches open over UK, new marketing department, all cost money so up goes the price. In the current uncertain world, you'd expect higher prices again, as insurance against low returns.

Where else to go, Arnold 9801?

As for the future, who knows? About half of UK fishing rights have already been sold off to foreign fleet owners and can't "come back". "No deal" will scupper the fishermen as 80 odd% of the catch has gone to the EU as they will pay more than us for it. No deal tarrifs will kill that trade. Why? well UK citizens eat manly cheaper imported fish, as UK caught is seen as too expensive, and matching import prices will likely put them out of business. World trading moves general manufacture to areas of low labour cost; first Japan ,then Taiwan, China, now other Asian countries and India... Africa and S America to go - what happens when _no one_ wants to work for a bowl of rice / sago / quinoa etc.? The UK is left with high end products, best of all if intellectual, like Arm, who design computer chips and license foreign companies to make them. Who employs low skilled workers though... Korea began to address this problem over 20 years ago with massive beefing up of education and technical training. The UK seems as well prepared for this as we were for a pandemic...

We can always send a gunboatNOnono aircraft carrier (with no planes) to show who's boss!


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## billw (23 Dec 2020)

ARM is US-owned now, after briefly being Japanese. We really need to sort out what this country is going to do in the future because right now there's no long-term plan thanks to our chaotic political system that demands short termism.


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## Hsmith192 (23 Dec 2020)

I think it was really unfair that the prices went up as much as they did this time. Just means we have to be more creative with what we have got.

I like their products but 10/15% price increases are just not fair. Now they also charge £60 for their heavy goods delivery.
I get that there is a lot of demand but it’s not fair for people entering the world of woodwork.


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## AJB Temple (23 Dec 2020)

You mention fairness three times. Business is not intended to be fair. It is intended to maximise return for the owners. Shop around.


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## Blackswanwood (23 Dec 2020)

Hsmith192 said:


> I think it was really unfair that the prices went up as much as they did this time. Just means we have to be more creative with what we have got.
> 
> I like their products but 10/15% price increases are just not fair. Now they also charge £60 for their heavy goods delivery.
> I get that there is a lot of demand but it’s not fair for people entering the world of woodwork.



I’m struggling to follow the logic of it being unfair. Unwelcome maybe but presumably they are doing what most businesses do - covering their costs and a Margin for profit. There are other suppliers we can all choose to buy from.

EDIT sorry - same point as previous post - AJB must type quicker than me!


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## Hsmith192 (23 Dec 2020)

Blackswanwood said:


> I’m struggling to follow the logic of it being unfair. Unwelcome maybe but presumably they are doing what most businesses do - covering their costs and a Margin for profit. There are other suppliers we can all choose to buy from.
> 
> EDIT sorry - same point as previous post - AJB must type quicker than me!


What other suppliers would you suggest that you think are similar?


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## marcros (23 Dec 2020)

Hsmith192 said:


> What other suppliers would you suggest that you think are similar?



it depends what you want to buy. record power or Charnwood are probably similar for the hobby machines. There are others. Best option would be to start a thread saying what axi product you are looking at and ask for opinions.


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## Blackswanwood (23 Dec 2020)

Hsmith192 said:


> What other suppliers would you suggest that you think are similar?


Handtools ...

Workshop Heaven, Classic Handtools, Woodworkersworkshop, Turning Heaven, Toolnut etc

Powertools ...

Powertoolworld, FFX, MTMC, Kelvinpowertools etc

Machinery ...

Scott & Sargeant are a good place to start

There really are loads of other suppliers competing with Axminster!


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## Hsmith192 (23 Dec 2020)

Thank you, I’ll have a look at them!


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## TRITON (23 Dec 2020)

I notice record power pricing is better and whats more they seem to have pretty much everything in stock.
Looking through the different ranges a stark comparison is the 16" bandsaw.
Axminster its £1600, and in RP its £1100
Pretty much identical capacities, and spec.


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## Starflyer (27 Dec 2020)

I haven't read all the way through this, I apologise if this has already been covered. As part of my day job I buy a fair amount from China and export it to the EU and US.

These price increases have little to nothing to do with Brexit, we've got that to look forward to later next year. The RMB is at it's weekest against the USD for a long time, the world buys from China in USD, the factories pay for components in RMB. Every factory I deal with is pushing big price increases and this will continue.

China has been pushing manufacturers to be less polluting for a while now, this is also pushing up prices. The Chinese gov needed to tackle this; think annodisers running at night to avoid gov inspections and dumping tonnes of toxic chemicals into rivers / drains. The increased gov inspections have halved factory capacity and so their prices have increased.

Covid has had and continues to have the biggest effect on prices. There are severe equipment (empty container) shortages in China now, the world has been exporting truly massive amounts of PPE from China and empty containers haven't been going back. There's far more demand for all types of freight than there is capacity.

Last week I was quoted a four month wait for container space on my normal shipping line, usually ~ USD 2k, or a sailing mid January for USD 8k. The price quoted was only an indication and I expect it to increase further.


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## Misterdog (27 Dec 2020)

At last, someone gets it and can see beyond the end of their nose.

People quoting GBP V Eur exchange rates, (only since 2016 obviously) then giving cumulative totals for inflation rates (only since 2016 obviously) for dramatic effect.
Have little notion that the world's economy is not based on Brexit.

I suspect that we will look back in awe at the days of cheap borrowing and low inflation.


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## Droogs (27 Dec 2020)

I look in awe of it now, I remember my parents having to pay 15% a month on their mortgage as a teen in the 80s and this taking nearly all their salary. Only reason my father could afford to travel to work was he ran the bus repair garage and had an employee bus pass which he used for 3 years to get there before he started to use the car again


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## Misterdog (27 Dec 2020)

TRITON said:


> I notice record power pricing is better and whats more they seem to have pretty much everything in stock.
> Looking through the different ranges a stark comparison is the 16" bandsaw.
> Axminster its £1600, and in RP its £1100
> Pretty much identical capacities, and spec.



Though with a cast iron table, variable speed drive and precision blade guides
the Scheppach machines look better quality to me.









Scheppach Basa 3.0V 205mm Electric Bandsaw 240V


Order online at Screwfix.com. Heavy steel and cast iron construction with variable speed. Wide cut capacity of 306mm to cut all types of wood, plastics and non-ferrous metals. Features 3 roller precision guides above and below table. With adjustable rack, quick-release blade change, mitre guide...



www.screwfix.com





I have a Record Power one which is OK.

Screwfix selling machinery !


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## billw (27 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> At last, someone gets it and can see beyond the end of their nose.
> 
> People quoting GBP V Eur exchange rates, (only since 2016 obviously) then giving cumulative totals for inflation rates (only since 2016 obviously) for dramatic effect.
> Have little notion that the world's economy is not based on Brexit.
> ...



It's also quite weird to live in the times of negative interest rates.


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## Misterdog (27 Dec 2020)

Droogs said:


> I look in awe of it now, I remember my parents having to pay 15% a month on their mortgage as a teen in the 80s



Then house prices dropping 10% or more in a bad year of the boom and bust cycles we had then.


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## billw (27 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> Then house prices dropping 10% or more in a bad year of the boom and bust cycles we had then.


An interesting argument can come from this - should people see their property as an investment or a home? Everyone needs somewhere to live so what does it matter what it is worth at any point in time?

Yes, from the point of remortgaging etc I guess. I just don't see the obsession with people saying how much their house is worth. It's relative, so if you sell yours at a high price you'll have to buy another at the same high price unless you move to a cheaper area, but how many people base their location on where they think they'll get the most capital appreciation?


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## Phil Pascoe (27 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> Screwfix selling machinery !



Or not. They haven't got it.


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## Misterdog (27 Dec 2020)

Houses are investments though, they are something to sell to pay your nursing home fees of £ 1000 per week.

Though in the 'bust' years with high inflation, the negative equity caused many to loose their homes.
Thankfully the economy has been more stable since - touch wood..


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## Phil Pascoe (27 Dec 2020)

Misterdog said:


> Then house prices dropping 10% or more in a bad year of the boom and bust cycles we had then.


Boom and bust? Gordon Brown put an end to that when he saved the world, surely?


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## Misterdog (27 Dec 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Or not. They haven't got it.



Christmas holidays cause shortages - shock horror.




> Due to supplier shutdown, dispatched within 15 day(s) on a next day service
> Estimated delivery by 15 Jan, 2021


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## Misterdog (1 Jan 2021)

I was talking to a friend of mine the other day who works for Evolution power tools, he said they have had no price increase for the last 2 years. Though because of the huge increase in container costs there will be one in the spring.
Some will just say Brexit has caused it though..


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## Doug B (1 Jan 2021)

Droogs said:


> I look in awe of it now, I remember my parents having to pay 15% a month on their mortgage as a teen in the 80s and this taking nearly all their salary. Only reason my father could afford to travel to work was he ran the bus repair garage and had an employee bus pass which he used for 3 years to get there before he started to use the car again


It wasn’t just the 80’s either I remember buying our first house in 1990 & interest rates were 16.5% & house prices had peaked, five years later the house next door which was the same design etc to ours sold for 1/2 what we’d paid for ours, it took another five years for prices to get back to where they were when we first bought & we were able to sell finally having got out of negative equity


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## Mike Jordan (2 Jan 2021)

Ive just looked at the exminster site to price s forstner bit and got a shock! Same Chinese carp but very new prices.
It seems that a wind of change has hiked them out of my reach.


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## Misterdog (2 Jan 2021)

Bring back the good old days when we had to shop around by phone or drive to our local store with no idea what others were charging.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Jan 2021)

I remember spending the better part of a Monday morning ringing around for prices because our boss wouldn't allow us to use our intelligence and experience to just go out and pick stuff up. The system reverted to the status quo ante when I told him I'd spent the morning saving him three pence.


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## Droogs (2 Jan 2021)

Had much the same experience with MOD "Smart Procurement". This was the idea that each repair workshop manager (SNCO) would be given a credit card and allowed to source off the shelf replacement parts from whoever they could find cheapest. As it was public money accounting you were required to provide at least 3 quotes every time you ordered something. It worked great for the first 6 months then all the companies realized you never actually ordered anything from them as obviously you would buy the cheapest, so refused to give a quote. Started to make life very difficult for us.


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## D_W (2 Jan 2021)

Mike Jordan said:


> Ive just looked at the exminster site to price s forstner bit and got a shock! Same Chinese carp but very new prices.
> It seems that a wind of change has hiked them out of my reach.



Imagine if we'd have had to pay first world residents to produce them in the first place. Remember your parents and grandparents hobbies? My dad's dad listened to sports on the radio because it was free and my mom's dad cut and split wood to sell. 

When my dad and I started to play golf at the cheapest public course in the late 80s, they considered us huge money wasters.

My mother painted and my dad prepped wood for her to paint... All sold. No expensive tools, they were trying to make money. We are very entitled without much physical evidence as to why. My mother's father worked 6 times as hard as I do all his life and took a lot of risk and died with few physical assets. The only thing he had higher grade than me was his chainsaw and log working equipment as it was feeding him and needed to work.


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## Spectric (2 Jan 2021)

Blackswanwood said:


> I’m struggling to follow the logic of it being unfair. Unwelcome maybe but presumably they are doing what most businesses do - covering their costs and a Margin for profit. There are other suppliers we can all choose to buy from.


If you take out competion, ie other suppliers then you have free reign over what profit margin you decide to take and is why competion is important, not only for cost but product development and a process of continual improvement.


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## Doug B (2 Jan 2021)

The bottom line is Axminster have always had large price rises despite Brexit, exchange rates, China or any other pet subject folks want to blame it on. Its been a running theme as long as I’ve been on the forum, a quick search brings up many results on the matter here’s one from 2012 Axminster price increases? long before the pandemic or Brexit.


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## billw (2 Jan 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I remember spending the better part of a Monday morning ringing around for prices because our boss wouldn't allow us to use our intelligence and experience to just go out and pick stuff up. The system reverted to the status quo ante when I told him I'd spent the morning saving him three pence.



When I was contracting at HBOS I had to spend about 4 days trying to find out who posted a £10 charge into our accounting ledger and why they'd done it. The tolerance for error was zero, so even it had been 1p I'd have had to go through the process. At my day rate it would have been cheaper to write the money off after about 15 minutes


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## Droogs (2 Jan 2021)

Doug B said:


> The bottom line is Axminster have always had large price rises despite Brexit, exchange rates, China or any other pet subject folks want to blame it on. Its been a running theme as long as I’ve been on the forum, a quick search brings up many results on the matter here’s one from 2012 Axminster price increases? long before the pandemic or Brexit.


But up until the last couple of years that increase in price has in no way been linked to a increasing deterioration of componant/or build quality as it does now


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## Doug B (2 Jan 2021)

Droogs said:


> But up until the last couple of years that increase in price has in no way been linked to a increasing deterioration of componant/or build quality as it does now


I’m afraid I’d disagree there Droogs, the last Axminster own brand machine I bought was 10 years ago & I stopped at that point because of the drop in quality this coincided with them launching their perform range which from my point of view was when the rot set in.


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## Droogs (2 Jan 2021)

I stand corrected, my experience with them is only around 6-7 years but i have noticed a dip in comparison to older kit.


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## ScottandSargeant (6 Jan 2021)

There is a massive shipping issue at present..Container cost this time last year 3000... same container this month 13500... sadly this will get reflected in pricing until things get rebalanced.


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## Misterdog (10 Jan 2021)

Be an interesting fact to see how many containers are being used for Covid 19, an eye watering figure I suspect.


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## rafezetter (10 Jan 2021)

Droogs said:


> Price may be going up but component quality is definitely going down. It looks the same as it always did but the bits inside are nowhere near as good as they used to be. They are fast approaching a similar position with regards quality and reliability of the kit they sells as I hold Rutlands to be at. Yes Axi have always had good to very good customer service but I don't buy things to have a relationship with a company's customer service department but to avoid it completely



I'd have to agree - late 2018 I bought a 2nd hand Axi 200mm tabletop saw being advertised here, that was only a couple of years old and had seen almost no use "because I couldn't get on with it", I looked it over at the sellers place, but didn't give it a white glove inspection - It's an axminster right so should be just fine.. how wrong was I? I paid top price too for the same "it's an axminster" reason.

The fence WILL NOT set to 90deg to the table no matter what I do - I don't mean parallel to the blade, I mean the vertical face of the fence, it's off vertical by maybe 5 deg, and this is thier so called "improved" fence design over the old one copied from Kity (which btw is very good) - seller also confessed it was the SECOND cast iron top as the first one was warped and had to be replaced, and lastly the central blade aluminium cut out... doesn't even fit very nicely. The oval shape isn't oval, it's rough as though the person hand finishing (I can see the file marks on it) it didn't give a monkeys, and the holes drilled to screw it to the cast iron top are misaligned, therefore the screws do not bed properly into the countersinks, so screw heads are sticking proud of the bed, right where you would push the wood through. No wonder the original purchaser "couldn't get on with it" and not his fault he was a novice who didn't really understand the issues to get them fixed after purchase.

It's a "tablesaw shaped object" (so I can't even in good conscience sell it on again and keep my Kity 419 instead of replacing it) and I've so far yet to use it while I have a Kity on hand. I bought the axminster as I thought it would be superior to the Kity, and it is in two ways - a separate handle for the tilt mechanism (the Kity one is prone to issues using one handle for both operations and a plastic handle that loses grip) and a quieter motor, but the issues with the axi (especially the fence) will require more money and time thrown at it just to fix the issues that should not even have passed quality control.

This experience alone means I'll not be buying anything of "axminsters" - sorry, chinese rebadged - machines anytime soon, if ever.

Oh and their "Guranteed flat for it's lifetime" (according to the sales page) laminated plywood, formica covered router table top - wasn't flat - edge to centre there's a 3mm camber, not 0.3mm, 3mm according to thier own axminster, certified steel straightedge, which is one of the few things I've had from them I'm happy with.

This one - £200 and it's ffing WARPED UJK Professional Laminated Router Table Top


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## Lonsdale73 (10 Jan 2021)

Prices are on the rise everywhere. Boss had their eye on something for their birthday; it jumped from £130 to £180 overnight. Something I'd been contemplating jumped from £88 to £103. I've noticed amazon are not only no longer the cheapest place to purchase items, they can be considerably dearer. Something costing £99 at Screwfix is £172 on amazon. I queried one seller as to why they were asking 12.5% above manufacturer's RRP and their response was the manufacturer doesn't have amazon fees to pay. Nor, it seems does the seller as he is passing them onto the seller. Don't get me wrong, I hate seller's fee when I use ebay but it's my choice to use their facility so have to "lump it" with regards to paying their stiipulated fees for enabling the sale.


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## TRITON (13 Jan 2021)

I'd a pot of Osmo arrive in today from Axminster, along with their ad flyer showing current 'Deals'

Front top was their hobby 254mm saw bench in its basic format, with small side extension, which is about 1/2 the width of the old models side extension.
Cost £799

That has to be a sick joke. The cost of it in 2018/2019 was £499. Mine in 2012 or something was £450, and with the bits-side extension and sliding table came to under £650.

EIGHT HUNDRED QUID, FOR A BASIC HOBBY SAW BENCH ?????. So with sliding attachment and full width side extension were now over a thousand pounds. Bloody outrageous.


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## Droogs (13 Jan 2021)

But you will get great customer service when it doesn't work unless you live somewhere awkward to get to


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## julianf (14 Jan 2021)

I had to build a new computer a few months back. 

I had three parts in an amazon cart, but purchased them elsewhere.

I try pretty hard not to use Amazon, so it was only yesterday that I logged on again.

"Important information about items in your basket"

(I might be mis quoting)

Anyway, the three lines, a case, some memory, and some other part, had ALL risen in price.

Not by a small amount either. 10% or so.


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## Doug71 (14 Jan 2021)

julianf said:


> I had to build a new computer a few months back.
> 
> I had three parts in an amazon cart, but purchased them elsewhere.
> 
> ...



I had similar a couple of days ago but the price went down. I put something in my Amazon basket (was about £40), I went to flick on the kettle for a coffee before I checked it out and when I got back I had "Important information about the item in your basket", when I checked it had come down in price by 2p!


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## clogs (14 Jan 2021)

I still think better to buy old than new...and spend a little time to fettle it......
rarely have I ever bought new machines as big as panel saw's and pl/th....except when tax deductable......
I always bought Wadkin etc.....I know they are not DIY machines generally but the smaller models are.....

If u have the room and can afford it buy one now and store till u can rebuild it....then sell ur AXI c*rp.....
Because as from anytime soon u'll be waiting till someone dies before they come back on the market...

From around 20 years ago pretty much all old engineering machines were bought up at auction and exported to the poorer parts of the world....by the container load.....
You want to try buying decent pre CNC machines now....rocking horse poo come's to mind......
Not mentioning any names but 2 of my metal work machines have genuinely doubled in value since I bought them 10-15 years ago....
and I paid a fair price for them, then.....

I have always said don't look at the shiney paint etc when buying new machines.....
even the so called prof machines are only just DIY qual with a few bits like cast iron beds to justify the price....
that's from the likes of AXI....
the only exception is a few Euro manufacturer's....

there was a programme I viewed recently about a firm in the States that make pl/th and panel saw's....cant remember the name...
a mum and dad business from years ago......from memory all the employee's have been there years...
the place almost looks Victorian....the onwner was asked if he should up-grade the place and change working practices.....
his answer was "we can sell everything we make and still earn a reasonable living, why change"......???
they have a full order book for the next 5 years, everything is made to last and built with the best materials....
the machine are anything up to 2-3 times the cost of anything available now......yet they can still sell em.....!!!!!
even the earliest machines can be repaired and replacement parts are available.....
they will even take in part-exchange one of their old machines against a new one.....
then they rebuild it and sell it on again.... 
but these are the exception than the rule.....
I blame greedy accountants trying to justify their salaries.....
incidentally when I was in business I would never knowingly work for an accountant.....


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## JohnPW (14 Jan 2021)

Amazon prices go up and down all the time. If you need something urgently, it's luck whether you pay a high or low price.


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## julianf (14 Jan 2021)

Got a text from my mobile provider about an hour ago.

Call charges in the uk are increasing from 3p per min to 10p per min.
Call charges in EU are increasing from 3p per min to 35p per min.


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## niemeyjt (15 Jan 2021)

Interesting - I am in Switzerland and Digitec do something similar. A graphics card I have been "following" waiting for one of their flash sales has gone up by 10% as well - was 249 now 274 (so much for the flash sale). 

A monitor I was watching has increased over 20%

So it is not just an Amazon or a UK thing.


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## pgrbff (15 Jan 2021)

julianf said:


> I had to build a new computer a few months back.
> 
> I had three parts in an amazon cart, but purchased them elsewhere.
> 
> ...


I keep everything I might need in my Amazon basket. Prices go up and come down. A DVD or CD that costs 9.99 today could easily be 5.99 tomorrow. it depends on the competition. Having said that it has been a while since they were the cheapest option. I bought some Bessey clamps recently. Normally around 6.00 they were suddenly 1.99.


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## Amateur (24 Jan 2021)

Just been reading about a lighting company that buy from China. Container prices increased from £1800 to £10,000.
If this is true for all container shipments machinery prices will go through the roof.
Anyone like to confirm this?


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## TFrench (24 Jan 2021)

I've heard similar. Lots of empty containers here and none in China. I think it will resolve itself quite quickly as all of a sudden it will be profitable to move empty boxes back to the far east if there is that much demand.


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## Peter Sefton (24 Jan 2021)

Amateur said:


> Just been reading about a lighting company that buy from China. Container prices increased from £1800 to £10,000.
> If this is true for all container shipments machinery prices will go through the roof.
> Anyone like to confirm this?



Our shipper told us this week containers have risen from around £2K to £10-£15K


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## Nick Laguna UK (24 Jan 2021)

Amateur said:


> Anyone like to confirm this?


Yes, those costs sound about right.
Biggest challenge will be larger sized but lower value items - as the importer will pay more in relation to the products value due to the space it takes up.
eg. Importing a container worth 35k has a bigger percentage hit than importing a container worth 100k if that makes sense.

edit, just seen Peter's post above as I was typing - yes, same here mate - that's if you can get hold of one too...


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## GrahamF (24 Jan 2021)

Peter Sefton said:


> Our shipper told us this week containers have risen from around £2K to £10-£15K



EU/UK carriers are also boosting prices and lots of complaints in the boat parts world about EU suppliers no longer supplying to UK and UK ones not supplying to EU, due to new VAT payment rules and customs paperwork. It's a mad world at the moment.


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## GrahamF (24 Jan 2021)

pgrbff said:


> I keep everything I might need in my Amazon basket. Prices go up and come down. A DVD or CD that costs 9.99 today could easily be 5.99 tomorrow. it depends on the competition. Having said that it has been a while since they were the cheapest option. I bought some Bessey clamps recently. Normally around 6.00 they were suddenly 1.99.



A recent post elsewhere, a guy ordered from Amazon Germany for delivery to EU address but Amazon dispatched from UK warehouse so he paid UK VAT and then EU VAT on import, not a happy bunny!


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## Droogs (24 Jan 2021)

Well Amazon should take the hit for that faux pas

@Peter Sefton & @Nick Laguna UK Laguna , Would it not be economical to buy some ISOs here and ship them back empty sell some and then have some of them filled?
I've no idea myself as all my stuff comes in packets or boxes not containers


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## Peter Sefton (24 Jan 2021)

Droogs said:


> Well Amazon should take the hit for that faux pas
> 
> @Peter Sefton & @Nick Laguna UK Laguna , Would it not be economical to buy some ISOs here and ship them back empty sell some and then have some of them filled?
> I've no idea myself as all my stuff comes in packets or boxes not containers



Pleased to say we don't bring much in from Asia but getting kit from the states also has its issues.


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## Peter Sefton (24 Jan 2021)

GrahamF said:


> EU/UK carriers are also boosting prices and lots of complaints in the boat parts world about EU suppliers no longer supplying to UK and UK ones not supplying to EU, due to new VAT payment rules and customs paperwork. It's a mad world at the moment.


It has been getting a bit more tricky, but on the positive side its good for the panet not to be sending stuff back and forth thats available more locally.


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## GrahamF (24 Jan 2021)

Peter Sefton said:


> It has been getting a bit more tricky, but on the positive side its good for the panet not to be sending stuff back and forth thats available more locally.



Thankfully, having retired, I'm no longer involved in business except for a small sideline. As an importer, have you any thoughts about looking around UK suppliers to see if the present (likely ongoing) situation may make UK suppliers more able to compete?


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## Peter Sefton (24 Jan 2021)

GrahamF said:


> Thankfully, having retired, I'm no longer involved in business except for a small sideline. As an importer, have you any thoughts about looking around UK suppliers to see if the present (likely ongoing) situation may make UK suppliers more able to compete?


Actively looking and using UK suppliers were possible, it may prove more expensive but what is the cost to our planet moving so much around it?
If anyone knows of good engineering companies who can machine, anodise and etch please let me know. I am designing new products at present, so any ideas are always welcome, please PM me.


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## clogs (24 Jan 2021)

so as I understand it, the shippers now run a *Cartel*...
this increase from approx £2,000 to £10,000 seems to be totaly out of order....


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## Spectric (24 Jan 2021)

The first thought that springs to mind is that there may well be good engineering ability out there but can it be competative. I looked at some items from FC Tools and the quality is top notch but when you think that the Domino Alignment Jig is £370 and a Jessem Prestige router lifter is £335 you do ask questions. Is this because Canadian/US manufacturing is really more cost effective and taking into account the importing or just a case of Festool followers can be made to pay more.


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## GrahamF (24 Jan 2021)

Spectric said:


> The first thought that springs to mind is that there may well be good engineering ability out there but can it be competative. I looked at some items from FC Tools and the quality is top notch but when you think that the Domino Alignment Jig is £370 and a Jessem Prestige router lifter is £335 you do ask questions. Is this because Canadian/US manufacturing is really more cost effective and taking into account the importing or just a case of Festool followers can be made to pay more.



Much of cost is dependent on length of production runs and size of market. I spend a lot of time here in Portugal and rents/rates/land cost is a hell of a lot cheaper than UK and so are wages so, set up two identical factories, here and UK and it's obvious who can produce more cheaply. OTOH, when adding carriage costs and duty to US imported goods, UK manufacturers should be able to compete with many.


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## mikej460 (24 Jan 2021)

I read that one major contributor to the container shortage and subsequent price increases is that many are held up in the UK offshore due to the new customs bureaucracy.


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## Peter Sefton (24 Jan 2021)

Spectric said:


> The first thought that springs to mind is that there may well be good engineering ability out there but can it be competative. I looked at some items from FC Tools and the quality is top notch but when you think that the Domino Alignment Jig is £370 and a Jessem Prestige router lifter is £335 you do ask questions. Is this because Canadian/US manufacturing is really more cost effective and taking into account the importing or just a case of Festool followers can be made to pay more.


I used to supply FC Tools with some components for one of their tools, we have spoken about us selling some of their products via our tool shop but the margins are just too tight. I am having some router table tops and other products made in the UK, it took a long time to find a UK manufacturer that could make to the high specification I wanted for a saleable price. The first two I tried needed more money than we sell them for, the third was double the price. It's a so process getting the right suppliers but it gives me a project to get my teeth into whilst I have no students. 
JessEm quality is superb and a really good family company to deal with, they are currently building a new factory to try and keep up with world demand and to develop new lines.


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## Spectric (24 Jan 2021)

Peter Sefton said:


> JessEm quality is superb and a really good family company to deal with, they are currently building a new factory to try and keep up with world demand and to develop new lines.


Thats testament to Jessems product quality, real quality always sells.

Another big issue for a small sector such as woodworking tools and machinery is that so many engineering firms can deliver but not in small volumes, just not worth their setup times for small batch runs. I can recal one supplier many years ago that initially thought I was probably mad when I asked for a quote for one of their products but wanted a different front housing. The guy started adding words in his native language as he went into overdrive but this all changed when I mentioned that we would be buying around 50000 units a year and will contribute towards the cost of the new tooling, then it was yes sir and when do you expect first delivery sir and he was a different person, could not do more.


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## Fergie 307 (25 Jan 2021)

From what I've heard the container problem has nothing to do with customs, it's down to Covid. This has disrupted the normal flow of things and meant that containers are not being processed as quickly at their destinations. Result is a massive shortage in the far east. This has been going on for months. As to the cost rise, simple supply and demand. Regarding UK companies competing, I'm afraid we are reaping what we have sown. So many good businesses have gone to the wall because we all bought Chinese stuff, primarily because of price. Now it looks like the supply from China is going to dry up, at least temporarily, we are all in the brown stuff. Served us right really,


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## CornishWoodworker (25 Jan 2021)

GrahamF said:


> A recent post elsewhere, a guy ordered from Amazon Germany for delivery to EU address but Amazon dispatched from UK warehouse so he paid UK VAT and then EU VAT on import, not a happy bunny!


When looking at Amazon, regardless which . Web , always look at at despatched from , if its EU Serl or Gmbh etc, you could be liable pay Import duty, handling charge and Vat. It must say despatched from Amazon UK. Take a snapshop of it and keep it just in case Amazon try and ship it from somewhere else. If they do, claim the money plus your time from Amazon.


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## GrahamF (25 Jan 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> So many good businesses have gone to the wall because we all bought Chinese stuff, primarily because of price. Now it looks like the supply from China is going to dry up, at least temporarily, we are all in the brown stuff. Served us right really,



It's going to continue though. for DIY, when I can buy a Chinese router bit for <£5 delivered, why would I pay £26 for a Trend one, which was quite likely produced in the same factory then marked up by Trend, the wholesaler and the retailer? If I were still in business with heavier use, could claim the VAT back and offset against tax, I may think differently.


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## Lefley (25 Jan 2021)

Shipping costs from China to west coast of Canada are going up 145% or 2,000 to 4,900.

so won’t be ordering a full container of bubble wrap any time soon.


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## Lefley (25 Jan 2021)

But I read China to Europe up 269% which is less than half the distance to Canada. 2,000 to 7;380. Doesn’t make sense to me.


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## Droogs (25 Jan 2021)

more demand for containers than canada


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

If all the prices get hiked up then a point will be reached where the markets just stagnate, no one buys the product so that OEM then does not buy the products needed to manufacture and so on down the chain.


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## Lefley (25 Jan 2021)

Droogs said:


> more demand for containers than canada


Prices to USA are the same as Canada.


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## Droogs (25 Jan 2021)

well maybe europe still has a higher demand or a massive backlog of containers just sitting off it's coast perhaps


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## pgrbff (26 Jan 2021)

GrahamF said:


> A recent post elsewhere, a guy ordered from Amazon Germany for delivery to EU address but Amazon dispatched from UK warehouse so he paid UK VAT and then EU VAT on import, not a happy bunny!


I regularly buy from Amazon.jp, if there is duty to pay you see it upfront, maybe with marketplace? If you skip through checkout I guess you might not spot it.


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