# TV interference



## Lightweeder (15 Sep 2009)

I've been running a Charnwood W821 for about 3 weeks - neighbour's just been 'round to say it's interfering with their TV. Turned everything else off and he appears to be right. Charnwood are dumbfounded but making enquiries. Anyone had similar problems ?


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## CHJ (15 Sep 2009)

Not exactly surprised unfortunately LW, it has a 'universal' motor with brushes I believe.
It could either be excessive sparking of the brushes or poor electronics in the speed control unit not suppressing generated spikes.

In either case machine is obviously not complying with interference requirements but may just be a rogue unit.

Can you make sure that you have a good earth to the machine or your property in general, poor earthing could aggravate the problem.


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## Blister (15 Sep 2009)

Have you got your neighbors TV 


on a face plate or 


between centers :lol: 

opps! 

sorry


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## lurker (15 Sep 2009)

Assuming its mains bourne, as Chas says most likely a dodgy earth somewhere.
Most likely within the machine but any house with pre 1970s incoming mains is likely to have failing earths.

I'm about to have my consumer unit replaced and the sparks has recommended he re- do the earthing (on the incoming supply) at the same time for very little additional money.


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## Lightweeder (15 Sep 2009)

Just seems to be the new machine - couple of weeks at the most. I've got the lathe in a bank with my LED and extractor. Everything else seems OK.

We're checking everything as we speak, but all seems OK at our end. 

Can't understand why our TV is OK and theirs is not, but it's not my field I confess.


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## CHJ (15 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":1wm0ch5k said:


> ...
> 
> Can't understand why our TV is OK and theirs is not, but it's not my field I confess.


If their TV is picking it up via the aerial as opposed to mains born interference it may be they have an older aerial down lead that has poorer screening.


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## Lightweeder (15 Sep 2009)

He's gone out now, but he says, if they switch to analogue, the problem goes away. Husband on his knees in the sawdust, mumbling about piggy-back spades :? :?


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## CHJ (15 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":221dh0rt said:


> ...., if they switch to analogue, the problem goes away.



Suspect neighbour has older poorer screened down lead picking up any radiated spikes or a set top box that is ultra sensitive to mains/earth spikes. 

We have digital set top feeding an analogue recorder that does not like several appliances in the house when they switch but the Digital TV is fine.


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## Deejay (15 Sep 2009)

hello LW

He's gone out now, but he says, *if they switch to analogue, the problem goes away*

How do they receive a digital signal? Terrestial via a set top box or via a satellite dish?

Cheers

Dave


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## Lightweeder (15 Sep 2009)

Terrestrial Deejay - and SHE's back, so I'm off the lathe :evil: :evil:


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## Finial (15 Sep 2009)

I had to fit a suppressor to my lathe inverter for the same reason, that did the trick. Got it from the inverter supplier.


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## boysie39 (15 Sep 2009)

LW I have to sympathise with you. They can put men on the moon ,have sattelites so that you can speak to anyone or see anyone anywhere in the world, and you cant use your lathe!!
Convert them back to the auld Radio but that might interfer with your lathe. Looks like your in a no win situation !! REgards Boysie


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## Lightweeder (15 Sep 2009)

Finial":1vm5mtp6 said:


> I had to fit a suppressor to my lathe inverter for the same reason, that did the trick. Got it from the inverter supplier.



Don't even know what a lathe inverter is  Just got this lathe because the last one packed in. Ever get the feeling you're just not meant to turn? I'm going to Maplins tomorrow to see if they can help me.


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## CHJ (15 Sep 2009)

You could try three of these
One across the Live and Neutral
One from each line to earth.

But you should be able to get a more convenient package from a household appliance service centre as a spare for a dishwasher or washing machine.

Either solution could be mounted in a spare mains socket back box (plastic) in line to your supply to the lathe.

Do you have any Lecky friends nearby?


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## Lightweeder (16 Sep 2009)

Chas - I'm going to Maplins now to see what they've got. No lecky friends, but plenty who know what they're doing, so we should be able to sort something out.

I appreciate your support Chas  I'm not handling this very well at the moment. I'll let you know how I get on.


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## Lightweeder (16 Sep 2009)

Well, it's not good news for me. Firstly, our TV is also affected quite badly - ie, we can get no digital reception at all except terrestrial Ch 1, which is completely pixilated. Maplins won't give me anything without Charnwood's guidance, because the machine does not comply with legal requirements on interference, and Charnwood haven't a clue. They're taking a W821 home tonight to try it with their TV. It might be all the new models, or just mine.


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## CHJ (16 Sep 2009)

Machine certainly not fit for purpose in domestic situation then LW, might just be the one you have, if not then at least you have the warped satisfaction that Charnwood have a bigger problem.

I know it's frustrating when you just need to get in the shed and do things but at least it is an obvious fault with the machine and not one of those niggling things that is hard to demonstrate on cue.


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## Lightweeder (16 Sep 2009)

Absolutely Chas. I'm resigned now that, either way, I'm not doing any work till this is sorted. I'll give Charnwood the benefit of the doubt. They've been quick to rectify problems in the past, but there have been quite a few :?


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## lurker (16 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":3q5ui7jk said:


> Absolutely Chas. I'm resigned now that, either way, I'm not doing any work till this is sorted. I'll give Charnwood the benefit of the doubt. They've been quick to rectify problems in the past, but there have been quite a few :?



Their office is not far from me.

I could round up some of the local Ukworkshop boys :twisted: and we could go & have a chat with them (hammer) on your behalf :lol: :lol:


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## Lightweeder (17 Sep 2009)

If they don't ring me in the next hour, I might take you up on that Lurker :wink: :wink:


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## Lightweeder (18 Sep 2009)

Well, it's not an ideal situation, but I have to give credit firstly to Mike at Snainton, who has been fantastic (I bought the lathe through them) and Charnwood, who have put a lot of work into trying to track down the fault. They're sending up a new motor tomorrow, but Mike has assured me that he'll give me an identical new lathe, a different new lathe or a refund, if this doesn't work. Can't ask fairer than that.

LW


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## Bodrighy (18 Sep 2009)

It's always good to hear of good customer service. Hope it solves the problems.

Pete


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## Jenx (18 Sep 2009)

Thats good news LW ...

Sounds like a suppression problem on a brush motor, hopefully you'll get a good outcome 8)


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## Lightweeder (21 Sep 2009)

.....8, 9, 10 and I'm still waiting :evil:


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## Jenx (21 Sep 2009)

To be fair, LW ... it was friday afternoon when 'all was well' .. its now only monday.. for Business, the weekends are 'lost'. 
Whilst I would completely understand the frustration.. I do think you'd need to give them the grace of a day or so to sort it out....

Sorry to be a bit 'devils advocat-ey' there, but I treckon you have to give them a fair crack of the whip... in business terms we're talking only 24 hours from the post on friday afternoon.

They'll "come good" for you.. the signs thus far are all positive :wink:


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## Lightweeder (21 Sep 2009)

Jenx - you're right, of course - but, being picky, I would have expected them to shell out a few pence extra for next day delivery and get it to me on Saturday.

Aaaannnnnyyyyyway :wink: Motor arrived just after lunch, was duly fitted and it's not worked unfortunately. I sympathise with Charnwood, as they genuinely don't know what to do to help me. The W821 is a lovely little lathe, running like a top. Anyway, they're sending me a new one to try and I'm hopeful but not confident. You would have laughed the other day, a neighbour 5 doors away running his extension down the street, into another extension, then into our house, and we still had interference. I just wondered, as I've got so much wiring in that workshop, that I wanted to isolate the 'me' factor altogether. Having said that, my old W820 didn't cause interference. 

Finial - if you're looking in, I wonder how you managed to track the fault down to your inverter.

LW


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## Jenx (21 Sep 2009)

Wow, LW, thats a pity its not cured it. Definately very similar to the old car dynamo's with no suppressor, interfering with the car radio... remember that ? :lol: :lol: :lol: ...... same problem basically.
They've certainly 'tried' there.. and full marks for that.

I'm guessing you've been in touch and reported the latest .... whats the proposed plan of action now ? - different machine ?

Here's hoping there's a relatively easy solution to it... Its frustrating not being able to 'play' when the mood takes !

Sounds like they have the right attitude towards ccustomer service at least... and thats 9/10'ths of the battle... they'll resolve this for you ultimately, I'm sure.
keep us informed of what develops... its an "interesting" one, this. ... no doubt extremely frustrating for you, yourself of course..

Hope you get a good solution in the end  8)


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## Old joiner (21 Sep 2009)

If this has an electronically controlled variable speed, you may be able to feed the motor directly from the supply. Yes I do know the implications of what I'm suggesting, but as a test it would eliminate any electronic hash coming from the controller.

JohnB


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## Finial (21 Sep 2009)

It was a long time ago but as far as I remember the interference kept pace with the lathe - there was a whining noise that went up and down in pitch along with the lathe speed. I called the supplier and they said the inverter only had limited suppression built in and I needed the separate suppressor. Still the same now because I had to replace the inverter a few weeks back and they said I should leave the suppressor connected. No complaints since. Actually I don't think there ever were any complaints, I picked it up on our own set straight away.


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## Gordon T (21 Sep 2009)

Hello all,

I also have tv interference............as I get older I watch it more which interferes with my turning..............I'll get my coat

GT


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## Bodrighy (21 Sep 2009)

Gordon T":2bknn83k said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I also have tv interference............as I get older I watch it more which interferes with my turning..............I'll get my coat
> 
> GT



I watch it less and less....does that mean I am getting younger :lol: ?

Pete


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## Doug B (21 Sep 2009)

Bodrighy":wvc2pr83 said:


> Gordon T":wvc2pr83 said:
> 
> 
> > Hello all,
> ...



No Pete. it means you`re getting older & grumpier & don`t like anything thats on the box.....................................Well that`s what the kids tell me. :shock: :shock:


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## Bodrighy (21 Sep 2009)

My grandchildren call me Grumpy Grandpa anyway so that's no surprise. :lol: 

Pete


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## Lightweeder (22 Sep 2009)

Old joiner":3gbzzoiz said:


> If this has an electronically controlled variable speed, you may be able to feed the motor directly from the supply. Yes I do know the implications of what I'm suggesting, but as a test it would eliminate any electronic hash coming from the controller.
> 
> JohnB



Yes, it does have electronic variable speed, and it looks like the problem's somewhere in there. Hope it doesn't come to that OJ, but we're already thinking of 'worst case scenarios'. 

Thanks Finial.

Jenx - yes I do remember. Vacuum cleaners were the worst offenders, but it's more or less eradicated these days. Maplins man told me it's illegal the way it is at the moment - like everything else, interference has been regulated :? 

Charnwood are sending me a new lathe to try this morning. Can't ask fairer than that.


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## Lightweeder (22 Sep 2009)

New lathe just the same. Plugged it in still in the box, and it's no better


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## Lightweeder (22 Sep 2009)

I'll have to raid the piggy bank, but am thinking about a Record Power DML305VS. Does anyone have any experience of it ?


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## duncanh (22 Sep 2009)

Sorry to read of your ongoing troubles.

Before deciding on a replacement here's a thread on the Woodworkers Institute forum discussing small lathes. I haven't read through it all so don't not what the suggestions were...


Duncan


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## Lightweeder (22 Sep 2009)

Thanks Duncan - as the poster on your link mentioned, it's supposed to be more of a midi than a mini, and the one I'm looking at's got variable speed. It's got twice the power of the Charnwood. Apart from that, I'm getting a 'deal' on it, so I'm inclined in it's favour.


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## Lightweeder (24 Sep 2009)

I've collected a new Record Power DML305VS today. Very nervously plugged it in, but it's perfect. Not a trace of interference. It's a much more powerful machine and comes with a 5 year guarantee :wink: :wink: 

Snainton have been absolutely brilliant. A big 'thank you' to Mike, who's been patient, backed me the whole way and given me a complete refund on the Charnwood(s), as well as knocking a bit off the Record Power. It's not the easiest place to get to, but it's got everything for the wood turner.

I've got a lot of catching up to do now :roll: 

LW


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## CHJ (24 Sep 2009)

Way to go* LW,* get stuck into those Chrissy presents you had in mind.

More power to your turning.


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## stevebuk (24 Sep 2009)

well done LW, and it just so happens i am in that area on Oct 5/6th and just may call in for a quick look, but dont want to spoil my chance of getting something cheaper at Harrogate.. :lol:


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## Lightweeder (25 Sep 2009)

I had a couple of things on my list for Harrogate - one was a large round-nosed scraper. They were selling second-hand tools for £5 and £10 at Snainton yesterday - good quality and no sign of much use, so I got them there. My guess would be someone's gone to the great workshop in the sky and left their tools behind  Not many left though.

Right enough Chas - I've got some catching up to do :wink: 

The speed range on the Record Power is fine, and I'll be spending most of my time on the middle belt, but it's (strangely) got no digital read-out. I find that a bit wierd, but I'll forgive it anything at the minute.

LW


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## CHJ (25 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":32u85d3p said:


> The speed range on the Record Power is fine, and I'll be spending most of my time on the middle belt, but it's (strangely) got no digital read-out. I find that a bit wierd, but I'll forgive it anything at the minute.
> 
> LW


Knock yourself up some of these discs,print, stick on a bit of stiff card or MDF and mount on a 6mm bolt.

Secure in chuck adjust lathe speed 'till disc synchronizes with mains lighting (not low energy) and note where your speed dial is.

I produced an alternate dial for my speed control marked with these findings instead of the usual 1-10.


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## Lightweeder (25 Sep 2009)

Thanks Chas - i'll hand that to my technical manager (husband) :wink: and get him to look at it for me. 

LW


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## duncanh (25 Sep 2009)

You don't particularly need a speed readout - start with low speed and turn up until either vibration starts or you start to feel unsafe! Then turn down a little.

After a while you'll have a feel for where on the dial you'll need to set something for best speed.


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## wizer (25 Sep 2009)

I generally agree with Duncan about not needing the speed read out but it is useful to eliminate problems when your starting. Most pro's tell you where abouts they are turning and that certainly helps when you're wondering if you're going too slow or quick. The only other use I can think is thread chasing, but I guess even then you just learn by feel and what works.


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## Lightweeder (25 Sep 2009)

There are occasions - like when I'm using buffing wheels, that I'm not supposed to exceed a certain speed. Am I being a bit 'retentive' ?

LW


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## CHJ (25 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":cx7v28qy said:


> There are occasions - like when I'm using buffing wheels, that I'm not supposed to exceed a certain speed. Am I being a bit 'retentive' ?
> 
> LW



No *LW*, just safety aware, several items such as cole jaws also have max speed ratings for safety, although as you have probably already found the area around 800-1000 rpm on the 200mm mops gets to be instinctive because of the level of rigidity in the mop.

I also find it helps me to appreciate why-which-when-how certain wood-tool combinations work better and then adjust the rpm as diameter differs to endeavor to keep the cutting in the sweet zone.

Nothing noted down but as with most things resulting from practice the speed selection just seems to be right more often.


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## Lightweeder (25 Sep 2009)

Chas - it's the buffing wheels I mainly have in mind. Just while we're on the subject, do you bring up the tailstock on your buffing wheels ? - it's made mincemeat out of a couple of mine and I'm now using a small dowel held in my jacobs chuck. My nice new lathe has a really spiky tailstock which I would like to keep in prime nick :wink: 

LW


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## CHJ (25 Sep 2009)

*LW,* if your mandrel is held firmly in the chuck there should be no reason for you to use the tailstock.

The mandrel was made so solid specifically to avoid any need for tailstock support.







In fact when the new domed mops are attached to the mandrel you need the open end to allow access to the bowl internals.


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## duncanh (26 Sep 2009)

CHJ":3r92e2yy said:


> No *LW*, just safety aware, several items such as cole jaws also have max speed ratings for safety, although as you have probably already found the area around 800-1000 rpm on the 200mm mops gets to be instinctive because of the level of rigidity in the mop.



In the small booklet that comes with Teknatool chucks and jaws every jaw set has a maximum speed listed. In expansion mode the maximum for any set is 684rpm. In contraction the jaws I use the most have 684 for the step jaws and 684 for the powergrip. This seems way too low


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## CHJ (26 Sep 2009)

duncanh":2osstvwf said:


> In the small booklet that comes with Teknatool chucks and jaws every jaw set has a maximum speed listed. In expansion mode the maximum for any set is 684rpm. In contraction the jaws I use the most have 684 for the step jaws and 684 for the powergrip. This seems way too low



This certainly needs clarification *duncan*, basically it makes no sense for normal lathe use. It's only just above the minimum speed of some lathes.

Lathe Chucks, their scroll design and of course their associated auxiliary jaw register tenon and fixing screws all have a design limit to prevent bursting under the rotational g loads, but I can't believe it would be anywhere as low as that when they are marketed for machines often capable of 3000rpm.

After all it's not unreasonable to be turning something 100mm diameter (same as chuck)at 1500rpm,

Some scroll chuck designs do have lower burst ratings due to the smaller number of scroll threads engaged (usually done to increase the jaw travel figures) and even on the better chucks is something that must be taken into consideration if operating with the jaws extended near their limits.


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## wizer (26 Sep 2009)

Chas is there anything special happening on the other end of that mandrel? Or is it just a smaller diameter rod? Could it be done in wood or acrylic?


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## CHJ (26 Sep 2009)

It's stepped *Tom*, hopefully to cover the majority of different chucks and jaw sets that might or might not be fitted. Larger Jaw sets can grip the main shaft and the smaller stub should pass into the chuck/spindle bore.






No it certainly could not be done with wood or acrylic, the forces that can be generated when applying pressure, even at the light loads normally used are too great.


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## Lightweeder (26 Sep 2009)

CHJ":32q255k6 said:


> *LW,* if your mandrel is held firmly in the chuck there should be no reason for you to use the tailstock.
> 
> The mandrel was made so solid specifically to avoid any need for tailstock support.
> 
> In fact when the new domed mops are attached to the mandrel you need the open end to allow access to the bowl internals.



I take your point Chas - when (soon I hope) the bowl mop is available, it would have to be unsupported - mind you, it'll not be flying around quite so quickly as the outside of those mops. 

I was looking at the Beale bowl mops at Snainton. From about £32 for 3, but not sure if they would fit the Chestnut mandrel, thread-wise.

Duncan - you wouldn't get much work done at those speeds, would you?


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## Lightweeder (26 Sep 2009)

Sorry, made a right muck up of that


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## CHJ (26 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":1dz42e08 said:


> Sorry, made a right muck up of that



You can edit; Dear Lady, Dear Lady; you can edit; Dear Lady, Dear Lady; you can edit.




Lightweeder":1dz42e08 said:


> CHJ":1dz42e08 said:
> 
> 
> > *LW,* if your mandrel is held firmly in the chuck there should be no reason for you to use the tailstock.
> ...



Sorry, couldn't resist. :lol:


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## DaveL (26 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":11pyzxby said:


> Sorry, made a right muck up of that



There you go I sorted it out for you.


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## Lightweeder (27 Sep 2009)

Thanks Chas and Dave - sorry, couldn't resist that :wink: 

OK, before we finally give this thread a decent burial, Chas can I ask you - if you use tripoli on your abrasive wheel, a) how can you prevent the dark colouring transferring to light wood? and b) do you know of any way to clean the wheel ? 

Duncan is right when he said I might have used a bit too much tripoli, but I've also got a bit of dark stain on the first wheel. Seems to me I can only use it on dark woods now  

LW


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## CHJ (27 Sep 2009)

Lightweeder":3jzwddax said:


> OK, before we finally give this thread a decent burial, Chas can I ask you - if you use tripoli on your abrasive wheel, a) how can you prevent the dark colouring transferring to light wood? ...



Yes *LW*, I use tripoli on the first wheel when buffing dark woods without any finish applied or where I want to strip a finish off, on light woods I check on a scrap piece if possible to see if the brown wax is going to embed in the pores of the wood before using it on a turned item.

I don't use Tripoli on sealed items, go straight in at the white diamond stage just to blend in any rotational build streaks I've missed.

I'm a novice at this buffing lark myself so don't know what is the 'norm' out there in the buffing world.



Lightweeder":3jzwddax said:


> .. do you know of any way to clean the wheel ?



When I get contamination of the white wheel from cleaning up tripoli residue etc, I dress it with a rough sawn piece of Ash or similar to trap the wax, a sheet of coarse wet and dry also works but obviously removes mop material faster.


Lightweeder":3jzwddax said:


> Duncan is right when he said I might have used a bit too much tripoli, but I've also got a bit of dark stain on the first wheel. Seems to me I can only use it on dark woods now .



I've now got more than a bit of tripoli wax colouring on my first wheel, (see previous pic. in this thread) can't see how you can have otherwise LW.

Have tried it on some old items in light wood that needed a spruce up on the finish stakes and with a light touch got away with just removing the surface with tripoli without penetrating the sealer to the wood, I think it's like any finishing process it needs the experience of practice to be able to judge what's appropriate in each instance.


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## Lightweeder (27 Sep 2009)

Thanks Chas - I'll try the rough sawn Ash - sounds like that might work.

Big thank you for all the help I've had on this thread.

LW


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