# Poor man's Joint Master?



## Sportique

Thanks to Mailee for introducing me to Bridge City in an earlier post - seeing the Joint Master Pro set me to thinking "what-if ....?"

Well I enjoy engineering challenges (in a very simple way!) and although my version does not have a tilting blade - maybe that will come? - it does work very well.

This is certainly not everyone's cuppa tea - the tool/jig has serious size limitations - and without a tilting blade will only make vertical cuts - but I am sure it will be very useful in box making and other similar scale items. The cuts are easy, QUIET, clean and square. I am suprised how little effort is needed for one-push cuts.

I was fortunate in having a spare Japanese thin-kerf, pull-cut blade.

So, first I drilled two mounting holes in the blade, then mounted the blade onto a board using angle plates and some alluminium stiffening pieces. (Sorry no WIP).

Then built the table and cut a kerf slot in the centre. This top is supported by side pieces to give clearance for the blade mounting board and mechanism. Two swivel brackets were fabricated and fitted to the blade mounting board in line with the front (near) end of the blade as a pivot.

The side pieces were slotted to take M5 bolts/knobs to allow for vertical adjustment of the back of the blade (far end). This allows the blade to drop below the table, and rise to 30mm at the tip. The height adjustment bolts are threaded into mounting blocks holding thread inserts.

Then a sliding fence was made up - rather than ploughing mitre slots I fitted side bars to slide along the sides of the table - first I made sure the table and blade were all square to each other. The fence is fitted to a sliding board to give plenty of support and stability when sliding the fence forward.

Finally a couple of pieces of softwood were fitted along the bottom of the side pieces to facilitate clamping the whole thing to the bench - this is essential.























I hope you enjoyed that? (Thanks for heads up on Bridge City Mailee)

Dave


----------



## mailee

Hey no problem Dave. Nice to see a man after my own heart. I enjoy making jigs almost as much as making my projects too. Glad to be of help. :wink:


----------



## woodsworth

=D> 

I've watched the video several times and have drawn up some plans to build one. I was going to order some blades and get to work on it. But after seeing yours i think i can make one a bit differently.

Thanks for sharing


----------



## tigerhellmaker

Looks really nice.
Did You try make that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt3dtbl0T5E ?


----------



## Sportique

Thanks for your comments.

Mailee -  I certainly do have a lot of fun from making jigs - but I guess many on here would think it a waste of time/space  

PS - I finally made the kerf/slot measure - though I'll be honest I used 9Fingers/Bob's idea, and in this case the key is having a good sliding dovetail - mine's a just tad slack.

Woodsworth - thanks! If you need any more pics or have any questions just ask - this is a very simple solution but works well. I could give more photos/detail of the tilting mechanism if it helps. 

Tigerhellmaker - fascinating - I will give it a try! It should be possible as all the cuts are vertical and of the same depth. Though I am not sure if I have a piece of scrap that will work

Dave


----------



## ColeyS1

Oh no, think i need to make some squiggle wood now !

Thanks for the post Dave, that should give you hours and hours of fun :wink: 

Simon


----------



## JohnBrown

I'm very impressed by that! Please post any developments!

John


----------



## Sportique

John,

thanks for the encouragement.

I am not sure from your comment if you have seen the original Joint Master Pro from Bridge City Tools.

Take a look at 
http://www.bridgecitytools.com/Categories/Woodworking+Tools/Jointmaker+/

There are also some great videos on Utube.

at about $1200 their's is much more flexible - you will soon see why I have called this one the "poor man's" version.

  

Dave


----------



## JohnBrown

I have seen the original, a month or two ago. I am still impressed by your version, however!


----------



## ByronBlack

Hi Dave, I would like to try and make one of these, would it possible to see a picture of the mounting/raising system? Cheers.


----------



## JohnBrown

I'll second that request. It strikes me that, with an indexing arrangement, this could be an ideal way to cut slots for frets in a fingerboard.
From another thread, here's an early version(scroll down to page 150):

http://books.google.pl/books?id=xt0...1#v=onepage&q=drill press belt sander&f=false

John


----------



## Sportique

Byron and John,

thanks for the interest, here are some further details and photos:

Firstly it has to be said that my target was one of simplicity!

This first picture shows how the blade is mounted vertically on the blade mounting board. The blade is sandwiched between two pieces of alluminium carpet threshold  and held in place with four small right-angle brackets. Clearly the most important considerations are that the blade is truly vertical and square with the board.







This next image shows two things: firstly the flat metal bracket (lower left) used as the pivot fulcrum, and secondly the simple wooden block (lower right) each holding a threaded insert. There are two pivot brackets and two wooden blocks. The height of the pivot brackets and their fore-and-aft position are critical relative to the heel of the blade - such that when in the down position the blade is fully below the table, but still allowing maximum use of the length of the blade when it is raised. 






The saw table is placed over the top of the blade mounting board such that the pivot brackets enter slots cut in the table. The pivot mechanism is two 5mm machine screws threaded into 4mm holes drilled horizontally into the edges of the table so that the machine screws pass through the upper hole in each bracket - a simple but effective pivot which relies upon the screw being a good threaded fit into the table. (Viewed from the underside of the upper table)






Here are a couple of views of the underside of the table showing the blade mountings and the blade penetrating the table.










Then finally, after setting the blade height, the knobs (which run in radiused slots in the side supports) on either side are tightened. It should be easy to add an adjustable stop, but perhaps a little more difficult (but not impossible) to design an incremental mechanism






Hope that explains it in more detail, have fun  

Regards

Dave


----------



## ByronBlack

Dave,

That is superb work - thanks for the extra pictures, it all makes perfect sense now, I'll have to have a rummage around to find a suitable piece of metal to mount the blade.. I have an old axminster kumagaro saw that'll be perfect for this.

Cheers,


----------



## JohnBrown

Yes, many thanks from me also!

John


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Great report. Why did you use a Japanese saw in your poor mans version? Wouldn't a western saw that you could resharpen work just as well? I can see why bridge city tools used a Japanese saw because they want to sell replacements and most people wanting a jog like this probably don't want the bother of resharpening a saw blade. But is there any other advantage of the Japanese saw over a western one?


----------



## Geordie Joe

Gerard Scanlan":1upa1zxb said:


> Great report. Why did you use a Japanese saw in your poor mans version? Wouldn't a western saw that you could resharpen work just as well? I can see why bridge city tools used a Japanese saw because they want to sell replacements and most people wanting a jog like this probably don't want the bother of resharpening a saw blade. But is there any other advantage of the Japanese saw over a western one?



You need to use a pull saw because that is what you are doing. You are pushing the wood, but it is upside down and having the same effect as pulling the saw through the wood.


----------



## Geordie Joe

I know this is an old thread, but every time someone mentions the joint master I want one. I wouldn't pay that much for one, unless I won the lottery, but if it was £200 or less I would just hit the buy button. Not that it matters as I don't think they ever made one for sale and they discontinued the cheaper version.


----------



## Paddy Roxburgh

Geordie Joe":2fmikal7 said:


> Gerard Scanlan":2fmikal7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great report. Why did you use a Japanese saw in your poor mans version? Wouldn't a western saw that you could resharpen work just as well? I can see why bridge city tools used a Japanese saw because they want to sell replacements and most people wanting a jog like this probably don't want the bother of resharpening a saw blade. But is there any other advantage of the Japanese saw over a western one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to use a pull saw because that is what you are doing. You are pushing the wood, but it is upside down and having the same effect as pulling the saw through the wood.
Click to expand...



That doesn't really make sense you could mount the saw blade either way around


----------



## Sportique

Hmm ...... TRUE ...... but then I had a Japanese saw blade available so it seemed to make sense.

Dave


----------



## Rorschach

I would thing the thin kerf and razor sharp teeth of a Jap saw make it far more suited to this task than a western style saw.


----------



## transatlantic

This is cool! .. but it seems like it will only work when the blade is in absolute tip top condition? I'd be curious to see how well it works a few months down the line. What happens when the blade is a little dull? does it bind or jam half way through and you just make several strokes?


----------



## Geordie Joe

transatlantic":2p63s7ga said:


> This is cool! .. but it seems like it will only work when the blade is in absolute tip top condition? I'd be curious to see how well it works a few months down the line. What happens when the blade is a little dull? does it bind or jam half way through and you just make several strokes?



I thought that too. There will be a limit to the thickness of the wood you are cutting, because the thicker the wood the higher the end of the saw will have to be. At some point that angle will become too steep for the saw to cut.

The solution I have in my head to to attach a spring to the board the saw is attached to, to either pull or push it up to it's highest height. Then you could have a depth stop, or height stop to set the height the saw will go to. That way if the wood is too thick then the saw will just go down as you push the wood across it, but it will still have the spring applying force to it so it will still cut the wood. Otherwise you will have to cut a little, raise the saw blade, cut a little more and raise the saw blade etc. etc.

I keep telling myself that it would me more bother to build than it would be worth, especially as I love sawing wood by hand. But I keep seeing those jigs for cutting box joints on a table saw on youtube, and I think this would be real good at that.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Paddy Roxburgh":1l5dtrfu said:


> Geordie Joe":1l5dtrfu said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gerard Scanlan":1l5dtrfu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great report. Why did you use a Japanese saw in your poor mans version? Wouldn't a western saw that you could resharpen work just as well? I can see why bridge city tools used a Japanese saw because they want to sell replacements and most people wanting a jog like this probably don't want the bother of resharpening a saw blade. But is there any other advantage of the Japanese saw over a western one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You need to use a pull saw because that is what you are doing. You are pushing the wood, but it is upside down and having the same effect as pulling the saw through the wood.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That doesn't really make sense you could mount the saw blade either way around
Click to expand...


I was hoping nobody would notice that post. I realised I was wrong a few minutes after writing it, just after it hit me that if I wanted to cut box joints with it then a wider kerf would be better.


----------



## John Brown

Surely there's less chance of buckling the blade if it's cutting on the pull stroke.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

The reason about the saw was because it occurred to me that it was only a pull saw because of its orientation and I thought a western saw with a more robust blade might actually fair better than a thin Japanese saw exactly because it was not being pulled. The work is pushed along the saw blade. Perhaps the thinner kerf of the Japanese saw allows this to work and that a western saw would create too much resistance. The joint master is justifiably expensive because of its enormous flexibility. It can present the wood at almost any angle or compound of angles and depth to the saw blade. I can see that this might be overkill for a lot of people who only really need a jig to accomplish one of the many things that the joint master can do. 
I will continue to experiment and if all else fails I can place a request to be put on the waiting list  
For a joint master. Not on any other waiting lists.


----------



## Sportique

But Gerard (with respect) the wood is pushed and the blade is stationary - that effectively means that the saw is pulled through the wood (or have I missed something???) :shock: (hammer)


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Where is the law about turning a saw around? A Japanese saw is pulled only because it is thin and would buckle if pushed. A western saw can be pushed because it thicker and has a reinforced spine. So if you turn the Western saw around you can use it like a pull saw. Incidentally, thanks for the respect.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

:roll: Nothing like a bit of experimentation to discover the truth.
I am finding there is a lot more resistance from the Western saw blade. I think the wider kerf and thicker blade are the culprits. The original jointmaster in action appears to offer very little resistance. No need to reinvent the wheel here. I am still more than interested in buying the real thing. I am building a far less versatile version for a particular project. I thought that the drum sander was tricky but it was a lot easier than this :roll:


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

I am getting nearer to my goal but I fear I have further to go than I imagine. The more I work on this the more I realise why this is not a missed career opportunity.










I bought a couple of drawer runners from a scrap merchant, along with an aluminium sheet which I cut in half and drill and tapped so that I could fix it to the drawer runners. Now all I need to do is test my ideas for a fixed blade. I have fixed the runners to a board for the sake of simplicity. I will cut a hole in the middle for the sawdust to fall through when I have worked out how to fix the saw in position.
I have been trying to get a jointmaster second hand but most people seem to be unable to part with them.

And then late last night I was reading John's blog on the Bridge City Tools website and I could not believe my eyes.
I don't really want to spoil the surprise for you all so I suggest you read it for yourselves. http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/201 ... #more-9324
After you have read it I am sure it will become clear why I have named the photographs in the way I have. 

I am going to finish what I have started but I won't be using it for too long.


----------



## transatlantic

Gerard Scanlan":2zv0ea8s said:


> I am getting nearer to my goal but I fear I have further to go than I imagine. The more I work on this the more I realise why this is not a missed career opportunity.
> I bought a couple of drawer runners from a scrap merchant, along with an aluminium sheet which I cut in half and drill and tapped so that I could fix it to the drawer runners. Now all I need to do is test my ideas for a fixed blade. I have fixed the runners to a board for the sake of simplicity. I will cut a hole in the middle for the sawdust to fall through when I have worked out how to fix the saw in position.
> I have been trying to get a jointmaster second hand but most people seem to be unable to part with them.
> 
> And then late last night I was reading John's blog on the Bridge City Tools website and I could not believe my eyes.
> I don't really want to spoil the surprise for you all so I suggest you read it for yourselves. http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/201 ... #more-9324
> After you have read it I am sure it will become clear why I have named the photographs in the way I have.
> 
> I am going to finish what I have started but I won't be using it for too long.



That is good news! so there will be the american version, the knock off chinese version AND the official chinese version. They mention they think the official chinese version will be half that of the american version, so I guess thats going to be around the £700 mark. Still a substanial amount of money.

Curious to see the knock off version though


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

No doubt the knock version will still be better than mine. But I will be buying the official Chinese version. No one is going to put time into research if we all just buy knock offs. Bridge City Tools is a small firm, that is more interested in making top end tools than they are about making large sums of money. £700 seems like a lot of money until you start to try and build an inferior version yourself. Perhaps they brought it on themselves with their chopstick maker.


----------



## custard

Gerard Scanlan":rnpm9wcs said:


> last night I was reading John's blog on the Bridge City Tools website and I could not believe my eyes.
> I don't really want to spoil the surprise for you all so I suggest you read it for yourselves. http://www.bridgecitytools.com/blog/201 ... #more-9324




That's a pretty original, not to say weird, business plan! 

So UK (or NAFTA Mexican) customers will have a choice between US manufactured tools and half price Chinese manufactured tools, both of which according to Bridge City are made to identical standards. However US customers won't have that choice, they will only be able to buy the full priced US manufactured version. Have I read that right?

I wonder how US customers will react to that news? And, what's to prevent a UK buyer (or a Mexican NAFTA buyer) re-selling the cheaper Chinese version in the US at a small mark up? As I understand it under US trade law once a buyer has bought something they are at complete liberty to re-sell it to whoever they want for whatever price at relatively few restrictions.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

It seems a bit weird at first, but what choice do they have. I think this attempt to safeguard American jobs through selling American made tools to American buyers is a good thing. Bridge City Tools have every right to protect their intellectual property but as the cost of doing so is prohibitive I think they have found the best solution availalble to them. I am sure that there will be all sorts of gray imports going on. But between private buyers and so it will be a drop in the ocean. Anyone turning it into a business will be spotted quickly enough. If the US raise import tariffs for Chinese made goods this will make them less attractive.

In the meantime I plodded on






I have now discovered really how tricky this is to engineer. I have a tiny bit of side to side wobble in my drawer runners which is not great. My joint apprentice has a non adjustable 90 degree keel and I have to undo bolts to lower and raise the blade. I stripped most of the teeth from a crosscut blade in two swipes, so I have switch to a rip blade which seems to be better. 
Now more than ever I can't wait for the real thing to become available.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Gerard Scanlan":1gmtw9ic said:


> I stripped most of the teeth from a crosscut blade in two swipes, so I have switch to a rip blade which seems to be better.



Do know why it happened? Wood too hard, too thick, blade angle too steep?



Gerard Scanlan":1gmtw9ic said:


> Now more than ever I can't wait for the real thing to become available.



Even £700 is too much for me, but if I had the money I would buy one too, and that's just from seeing the videos and a quick trail of my own. Not that it was much of a trial, I just put a saw blade between two blocks of wood and put them in a vice. I was hooked after I ran the first bit of wood over it!


----------



## skipdiver

Am i the only one who thinks that it looks scarier than a tablesaw? One pass with your finger in the wrong place doesn't bear thinking about.


----------



## Geordie Joe

skipdiver":2ydemc5e said:


> Am i the only one who thinks that it looks scarier than a tablesaw? One pass with your finger in the wrong place doesn't bear thinking about.



Why!!!!! One pass with your finger in the wrong place on a table saw and it will be worse. There are many things in this world that can cut you badly, but they are used every day by people who have learned to keep their fingers out of the way.

I blame the internet, it has created a generation who think they are somehow better people if they scream "risk" at everything they see.


----------



## skipdiver

Geordie Joe":5eyas7cx said:


> skipdiver":5eyas7cx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Am i the only one who thinks that it looks scarier than a tablesaw? One pass with your finger in the wrong place doesn't bear thinking about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why!!!!! One pass with your finger in the wrong place on a table saw and it will be worse. There are many things in this world that can cut you badly, but they are used every day by people who have learned to keep their fingers out of the way.
> 
> I blame the internet, it has created a generation who think they are somehow better people if they scream "risk" at everything they see.
Click to expand...



I've been using machinery for over 40 years and still have all my fingers thanks. It was merely an observation and i don't think i'm better than anyone.


----------



## Rorschach

It's the pushing force you have to put behind it. I don't have to push hard into a table or bandsaw, makes me more squeamish.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Blade stripping issues.

As I suspected this tool is more complicated to get right than first meets the eye. 
I have been able to get it to do what I wanted it for but I have now sucessfully stripped 3 impulse hardened Japanese saw blades of all their teeth. Nice scrapers now #-o . I have tried the lowest possible pitch. From almost nothing to 5 millimetres protruding. I thought it was because I was cutting Holly at first. But then the blade sailed through Pear and the teeth were stripped by a piece of not particulary hard Maple. Perhaps they were already fatigued by that point. 

Is a hacksaw blade is a better option? It is thicker which might be a problem for the resistance. I will give that a ago. In the meantime perhaps someone might have an idea where I am going wrong?

I really can't wait for the Chinese licensed version now.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

I can hardly believe it but there is too much kerf in a hacksaw blade. Doesn't work very well at all.


----------



## transatlantic

It looks like Axminster are now selling 2 Bridge City toolworks chopstick items. Interestingly, they use the upside down saw idea.

https://youtu.be/PEXCrK6Jsgo?t=246


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Yes I was pleased to see that Axminster have chopstick master in stock. Although I am not interested in that particular tool. This is a good sign as the jointmaster must be hot on its heels.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Rorschach":2eh64qri said:


> It's the pushing force you have to put behind it. I don't have to push hard into a table or bandsaw, makes me more squeamish.



Yes but using a jointmaster, even a shop made one, you have to hold the wood you are cutting tight to the fence with your hands either side of the saw blade. As long as your hands, or any part of them are not in line with the saw you are never going to come into contact with it, no matter how hard you push.


----------



## Geordie Joe

I knocked up a quick version, just to test the cutting, and stripped the teeth from two saw blades using construction timber bought from Homebase. It was only 12mm x 25mm and setting the end of the saw blade to 12mm high I didn't even come close to cutting through it. Each time I tried the wood jammed half way down the saw and I lost a couple of teeth from the saw. The saw didn't cut very far into the wood either, only a couple of mil. at most.

I did think that maybe it was me not pushing hard, or fast enough. Possibly not confident enough, pushing wood across an upturned saw blade did seem a strange, even unnatural thing to do.



Gerard Scanlan":1d3qr1t8 said:


> Blade stripping issues.
> 
> I really can't wait for the Chinese licensed version now.



I think you may find that it is one of those things that look like a really good tool, until you try it and find it only works on the softest wood. They don't mention what type of wood they are using in the videos, do they?

I still think a spring loaded blade is the way to go


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Hi Joe,

This teeth stripping issue seems to have been resolved by Bridge City Tools because I have not found any references to it on their owners forum. 
The Chinese company (Harvey) currently want more than Bridge City Tools do themselves for Jointmaster unless you order 15 units. I have spoken to a few tool retailers in Europe but no one seems to want to risk that kind of investment. The Jointmaster does have two different cross cut blades. One for hard woods and one for softwoods.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Gerard Scanlan":3qpr8led said:


> Hi Joe,
> 
> 
> 
> Gerard Scanlan":3qpr8led said:
> 
> 
> 
> This teeth stripping issue seems to have been resolved by Bridge City Tools because I have not found any references to it on their owners forum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you ask them? Maybe the blades are thicker, or longer, a longer blade would mean a lower angle for a given hight compared to my saw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gerard Scanlan":3qpr8led said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Chinese company (Harvey) currently want more than Bridge City Tools do themselves for Jointmaster unless you order 15 units. I have spoken to a few tool retailers in Europe but no one seems to want to risk that kind of investment. The Jointmaster does have two different cross cut blades. One for hard woods and one for softwoods.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Maybe Harvey never intended to sell to the public. I can't blame retailer for not wanting to take a chance on them, it's a lot of money to saw wood.

If you can ask in the owners forum, ask what the difference is in the blades.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Just had another look at the videos and two things are apparent.

The saw blade is longer than normal and both ends of the saw move up and down. It actually tells you to do this in the dovetail video. You set the height of the cut at the front (furthest away from you) and set the height at the back (nearest you) so the first tooth is level with the table. So when you cut wood it always uses the full length of the saw. 

So I think that is the secret, longer blade and raising it at both ends, If you look closely at some of the videos (hit the pause button when they are actualy cutting wood) it is clear that it has taken a few passes to cut the wood. In some places in the videos the saw blade is almost horizontal when they are just finishing cutting the wood. It appears they have taken a swipe with the blade low then raised it for another swipe. Each time they raise the front of the blade they also raise the back so the wood always hits the first tooth of the saw then travels across every tooth.

Maybe it's time to look at this again, with a better raising and lowering system.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Things just come to you don't they!!!!!

Sitting here racking my brain trying to think of a saw I could use that was long enough and the right height. Then it hit me, from Bridge City themselves, they are bound to sell spare blades.

And they do, 3 for $120. They do 3 different types of cross cut blade and a rip cut blade, but the packs have 3 of the same blade in them.

So how does this sound

Dear Bridge City

I own a jointmaster but the blade has lost some of it's teeth, so can I buy a replacement and will you ship it to the UK?

Edit cause I forgot: Have you seen the blades 28 and 32tpi......the one I used had about 16 at the most!


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

All good points Joe. The saw length definitely makes a difference. Softwoods generally need sharper tools to leave clean edges than hard woods. If the impulse hardening on the Japanese saw blades we have been experimenting with has made the teeth too hard. They will stay sharp longer but be extra brittle. 
An extra long resharpenable Japanese saw blade might be better but they are very expensive (although not as expensive as a joint master) and easily spoiled. Perhaps some one who has resharpenable Japanese saws can enlighten us. 
If you read the blog on the Bridge City Tools website about the cooperation with Harvey Tools in China it does not appear as though they were not willing to supply directly to consumers. They will eventually need retailers to stock these tools or they will go out of business. They are not making them for the already established American Market.
I do not understand why a European tool retailer doesn't just take orders in a form of group buy. 
Everyone seems to be too busy to be bothered.
I will ask some questions about hardwoods and teeth stripping on the BCT forum and report back.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Gerard, the big question is why the saw has 28/32 tpi. Is it because less tpi would mean larger teeth which would break easier, or is it purely for a smoother cut?

I've had a look around but for the length and depth of blade we need the best tpi I can find is only 15. Although Irwin do a 19tpi that might be suitable.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

I have read all I could find on the Bridge City Tools Forum about the Joint Master Pro including reviews and tweaking while setting up. 
I think that important issues are; 
the length of the blade. It is very long. A lot longer than any Japanese saw I can find.
the number of teeth. It has a lot of teeth per inch. a lot more than I could find on a standard japanese blade.
the angle the blade is presented to the work piece. It is critical the angle is not too steep. And the fact that you can present the blade in increments for successive cuts means this is easy to do.
the clamping of the work. So that it does not play on the blade.
The more I read the more I have come to realise how complicated it becomes to take the idea of fastening a saw blade between two blocks of wood to cut a groove in a piece of timber if you really want to perfect it. My model to see if I could justify the real thing seems to bear this out too. Too much play between the tables, or the work and the blade strips the teeth from the blades.

I do not think that cutting accurate dovetails is a good justification for buying this tool. Then you are better off practicing sawing on scrap material for a while longer. This tool allows you to make far more imaginative things. Things that would be too dangerous to saw on an circular saw. Things that would be too tedious to saw with a handsaw because they would require endless trimming.
I really wish someone in Europe would stock them.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Hi Joe,
Have you made any progress obtaining longer japanese saw blades with more teeth per inch? I see that damaging the blades on the actual jointmaker is a bit on an issue until you get the hang of it. It seems that for harder timbers and thicker pieces you need to edge the blade up milimetre by millimetre. The work also has to be firmly clamped because this will easily kink the blade if it isn't.


----------



## Geordie Joe

Gerard Scanlan":38pgsq27 said:


> Hi Joe,
> Have you made any progress obtaining longer japanese saw blades with more teeth per inch? I see that damaging the blades on the actual jointmaker is a bit on an issue until you get the hang of it. It seems that for harder timbers and thicker pieces you need to edge the blade up milimetre by millimetre. The work also has to be firmly clamped because this will easily kink the blade if it isn't.



Hi Gerard

No, and to be honest I put it on the back burner then forgot about it. Before it went on the back burner I was thinking about buying a universal handsaw, something like the one in the link below, just to try it.

http://www.mytoolshed.co.uk/p108552...RSaR52Gy9G3T_fS03yuGEIabSY6CH0lhoCtWEQAvD_BwE

If it worked I could always invest in a better one.


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Hi Joe,

The Harvey version is for sale now in the Netherlands.
https://www.gereedschappro.nl/cirkelzaa ... -pro/21330
A lot less expensive than importing it from the USA, still a wad of cash.
Now where did I put that piggy bank?


----------



## Geordie Joe

Hi Gerard

I wouldn't pay that much for one.....unless they let me test if for a week before parting with any money.

On the other hand, for 50 euros + P+P you can get a saw blade.


----------

