# Axminster AW10BSB2 tablesaw - ORDERED!



## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

I called in at Nuneaton this morning to have a close look at this saw and was really impressed. This is the machine thats basically the same as the popular SIP model.







Looks to be really substantial and well made. The sliding table looks good too. Only thing a bit poor is the rear take-off table, but I wouldn't be using that anyway.

Having looked around at the options for a couple of years now I think this is the closest to filling my requirements. The Scheppach TS2500 would be similar, but nearly twice the price for no obvious benefit.

I'm on the verge of being impulsive here - any other options I'm missing?

Ed


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

how does the price differ from SIP and Fox?


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## Chems (11 Feb 2010)

I looked at it there also and that was where I decided to get an SIP. I would have got the Axminster but wasn't going to have the sliding carrige so could save myselfs some money on the next rutlands deal. 

Its considerablly cheaper than the SIP with table and all as the SIP retails for over £1000 and the Axy model is around £800

Is the rear table cast iron? Could make a nice router table somewhere else in the shop. 

My only gripe about the saw which isn't really a gripe, there is a hell of a lot of bits to walk into, the sliding table rail and the rails that stick out at the sides. I'm getting the hang of it now.


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## would not (11 Feb 2010)

I was looking at this saw only last night in the Axy catalogue, why's the rear table iffy? What's up with it..


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

I would want the sliding table, so the Axminster is probably the best deal.

Theres nothing wrong with the rear table - its fabricated sheet, rather than cast and is just a bit agricultural thats all.

Ed


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

Other thing I forgot is that the fence seems excellent. Glides really well, locks positively and comes with a short sub-fence.

Ed


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## Chems (11 Feb 2010)

Its odd when your spending that much to have a chipboard table, the deft had that as well. My sliding table is ally not cast like the axy.

The sliding table is very good, easy to adjust. Did you notice the fence has a micro adjuster? I didn't realise till mine turned up. Nice little feature.


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

Chems":9dqtui6g said:


> Its odd when your spending that much to have a chipboard table, the deft had that as well. My sliding table is ally not cast like the axy.
> 
> The sliding table is very good, easy to adjust. Did you notice the fence has a micro adjuster? I didn't realise till mine turned up. Nice little feature.



When I say fabricated sheet, I meant steel not chipboard.

Yes it does have the micro adjuster, which once the bloke in the shop had screwed it back on worked very well.

I thought for the money the sliding table was really good. Cast brackets and table and reasonable bearings running on the round bar.

Ed


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## woodbloke (11 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":3hqh3sv7 said:


> I'm on the verge of being impulsive here - any other options I'm missing?
> 
> Ed


Space :wink: - Rob


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## Jake (11 Feb 2010)

Rear take-off tables are important. Not that they need to be sophisticated.


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

Jake":35gs20b3 said:


> Rear take-off tables are important. Not that they need to be sophisticated.



I should have been clearer; I have a 1200 X1200 outfeed and assembly table now, that I would transfer onto any new saw I bought. Thats the reason for not needing the rear table supplied, not because I don't think you need one.

Ed


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

woodbloke":1h3fg3zw said:


> Mr Ed":1h3fg3zw said:
> 
> 
> > I'm on the verge of being impulsive here - any other options I'm missing?
> ...



I'm OK with the space thing thankfully.

Ed


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## Chems (11 Feb 2010)

do it do it do it click buy, checkout go on . . . . . .


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

The Jet's outfeed table was the same. Took it off straight away.


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## woodsworth (11 Feb 2010)

I think you missed the 12 inch version they have.


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## OPJ (11 Feb 2010)

wizer":2vbenejk said:


> how does the price differ from SIP and Fox?



Not forgetting the Kity 619, which also looks similar. You get a few of these on eBay, now and again. Though, some may not have all the accessories.

Where would you buy the Fox saw these days, seeing as Rutlands no longer stock it? They've started carrying the SIP, instead.


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## Karl (11 Feb 2010)

Ed

Looks like a good buy at that price. Watch out for the Axminster 10% offers - if you can hang on until the next one it'd save you a nice little bit. 

I wish I had the space for something like that. What size rip can it do without the RH extension table?

Cheers

Karl


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## Chems (11 Feb 2010)

I wrote this in the other thread about this saw today:

Its not that massive really in reality and its a good working surface for other bits. With wings attached to each side it measures 1170 and with out either wings on it measures 560, each wing is 305 wide. 

Hope that helps Karl.


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## woodsworth (11 Feb 2010)

The cost difference is quite considerable when you include the sliding table in. I just can't see them being same quality machines. the 315 model is almost £600 price difference.


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

OPJ":ejj7om5e said:


> wizer":ejj7om5e said:
> 
> 
> > how does the price differ from SIP and Fox?
> ...



I've not seen the Kity up close. I wonder if it's a clone from the same source or the others are clones of it?

The Fox can be bought from Poolewood, I think


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## OPJ (11 Feb 2010)

They've got to be the same, haven't they? I don't think Kity produce their stuff in France any longer, do they?


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

I'm confused, there seems to be a few of these saws that are all a bit similar.

Can't see the exact clone of the 01332 on the Poolewood site, but I did just notice this, which is interesting:







£816.37


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

OPJ":l2yplwr5 said:


> They've got to be the same, haven't they? I don't think Kity produce their stuff in France any longer, do they?



Would be nice to know for sure where all these slightly differing machines are coming from. I assume all from China but with so many slightly different models it's hard to tell.


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## woodsworth (11 Feb 2010)

That fox definately looks like the SIP but the kitty doesn't. the kitty looks like that shleps or what ever it is called i think.


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## woodbloke (11 Feb 2010)

The other issue is the weight...about 270kgs which is a lot for my suspended floor in the 'shop. I also assume it will run of a 13A supply or will a 16A socket be recommended? - Rob


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

Yes the weight is a consideration for me as well. I just dug out the Structural Engineers calcs for my first floor and I'm OK (just). 

Ed


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## Chems (11 Feb 2010)

I can only say for the SIP and the Axminster version, but they are most definatly the same saws.


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## Mike.C (11 Feb 2010)

At Axminster you pay £826 for everything including the sliding table and rear extension





As Tom said Poollewood sell the above Fox for £799 including the sliding table.





Machines4wood.com are selling the Itech for £703 and a huge £531 for the sliding table making it a whooping £1200+





If you do not need a sliding table, at £689 Rutlands are the cheapest especially if you wait until their regular 10% off weeks





Just over a grand for the full package.

Except for one or two minor differences (the rail on the sliding table and the extension table on the Kity) these are all quite obviously clones, so if you do not want the sliding table and can wait for the 10% reduction Rutlands is a very good buy, especially if as they did in Head Clansman case only charge him £5.95 delivery (because it comes direct from SIP.

If you want a sliding table then Axminster or Fox are clear winners by a couple of hundred pounds.

Cheers

Mike


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

A useful summary there - thanks Mike.

Personally I do want the sliding table, so it still looks like the Axminster is a strong contender.

The other big factor in my thinking is that Axminster are a known quantity to me - over the years I have bought loads from them and always had what I consider to be excellent customer service.

Ed


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## Mike.C (11 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":2c90hk4v said:


> A useful summary there - thanks Mike.
> 
> Personally I do want the sliding table, so it still looks like the Axminster is a strong contender.
> 
> ...



Your welcome Ed. when your spending this sort of money its best to have as much info as possible.

I have the bigger 12" SIP which when I bought mine came with all the extra's including the sliding table, and if you have the room it is certainly worth having.

As for which one to buy, I do not think you will find that much difference between any of them, but as the Axminster is such a good price with the sliding table, the quality of their products and great customer service, I agree that their saw is probably your best buy. It would be even better if you could wait for their 10% discount. It might be worth asking them when the next one is due because who knows if its not going to be to long they may let you have it now. :wink: What have you got to lose.

Cheers

Mike


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## big soft moose (11 Feb 2010)

theres a kity 619 - french version - on ebay at the moment - ive just decided its too far away to bother bidding on


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

If I reach a conclusion, there'll be a Kity 419 (French version) for sale.

Ed


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## TheTiddles (11 Feb 2010)

I almost bought that saw once, it's a great build quality for the money like lots of the other Axminster machines, but it's big, really big.

Aidan


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## big soft moose (11 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":3llfmwtl said:


> If I reach a conclusion, there'll be a Kity 419 (French version) for sale.
> 
> Ed



if you get there in the next week , i'd be interested - price dependent obviously


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## big soft moose (11 Feb 2010)

ed - earlier on i sent you a pm re a tablesaw i saw on ebay - not the kity, a different one , its still in my outbox so i guess you havent got it yet

damn this new lay out


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

big soft moose":x566clw0 said:


> ed - earlier on i sent you a pm re a tablesaw i saw on ebay - not the kity, a different one , its still in my outbox so i guess you havent got it yet
> 
> damn this new lay out



Completely missed the PM - what happened to the notification pop up on this site?

Anyway, thanks for the tip. It certainly looks like the same model, although I notice theres an unmet reserve on it. Collection not really an option for me either. Thanks for thinking of me though.

Ed


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## woodsworth (11 Feb 2010)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIP-01446-12-CAST ... 483959376f

What about this one?


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

woodsworth":3dbqvj23 said:


> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIP-01446-12-CAST-IRON-TABLE-SAW-WITH-SLIDING-CARRIAGE_W0QQitemZ310199793519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item483959376f
> 
> What about this one?



At £1700 they'll have to keep it I'm afraid....


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## Mike.C (11 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":3osz2lt6 said:


> woodsworth":3osz2lt6 said:
> 
> 
> > http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SIP-01446-12-CAST-IRON-TABLE-SAW-WITH-SLIDING-CARRIAGE_W0QQitemZ310199793519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item483959376f
> ...



It shows you how much these saws have increased in price because I paid £1,000 for exactly the same package 2 years ago with free delivery.

Cheers

Mike


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## Mr Ed (11 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":1ze60i11 said:


> Mr Ed":1ze60i11 said:
> 
> 
> > woodsworth":1ze60i11 said:
> ...



Yes, I looked back at some old posts from people who had bought this saw a couple of years ago and they seemed to be paying about £200 less than it is now. Funny thing is in my industry (construction) we are tendering jobs at probably 20% less than a couple of years ago, yet machinery seems to have gone the other way!

If only there was a way of knowing when the next Axminster 10% off was going to be.

Ed


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## Mike.C (11 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":10f7d5yv said:


> Mike.C":10f7d5yv said:
> 
> 
> > Mr Ed":10f7d5yv said:
> ...



Yes but that is a £700 price increase, how the hell can they warrant that? And I just remembered that they also gave me free delivery on top of that :shock: 

Cheers

Mike


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## wizer (11 Feb 2010)

Being that Axminster watch these forums about as much as I do, I'd stop saying that you're waiting for the 10% offer. They'll probably wait til you've bought it, then offer 15% the day after :lol:


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## Mr Ed (12 Feb 2010)

wizer":275ofxrv said:


> Being that Axminster watch these forums about as much as I do, I'd stop saying that you're waiting for the 10% offer. They'll probably wait til you've bought it, then offer 15% the day after :lol:



I'm not really waiting for it - as I recall it was December 08 when they did the last one, so I don't think its something thats coming again in a rush.

If I have a rush of blood to the head this weekend I may place an order!

Ed


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## StevieB (12 Feb 2010)

Was having a chat with the Axminster staff at Bobbing just before xmas and was told they were not doing a 10% after xmas as 'people have come to expect it'. They were also not doing the gift sets and bargains on small tool items and consumables they usually did round the base of an xmas tree for the same reason. We were both totally flummoxed as to the reason for this given Axminsters usual dedication to customers, and the only thing we could come up with is that opening new stores and staffing them gets expensive.....

Don't hold your breath for a 10% voucher anytime soon

Steve


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## woodsworth (12 Feb 2010)

I didn't exactly mean that one for sale. I just meant the 12 inch SIP. I just don't think the ten inch stands up to all we do as bench joiners. Often 10 inch machines have smaller motors that tend to burn out quite fast, and the arbors are engineered less robust then the 12 inch as well. It just makes sense that if your going to put a box in the room that it will be one that is designed to do what we do and engineered to last. 

These SIP's while they have increased in selling price does not mean they will sell for that price. Anyone with a pile of cash in their hand has the advantage, not the seller. I think people forget that here because they are so used to being taken advantage of.

I recently bout the veritas honing guide. but when i was doing the search for some reason Rutlands site did not show up on the google search. So i bought it from Axminster. I later found out that Rutlands had it on sale. So i e-mailed Axminster. There attitude sucked so bad that i didn't take possession of the honing guide and bought it from Rutlands. 

This is the only power we have as consumers and while the USA has understood this and changed the face of consumerism i think we here have still to learn this lesson.

You simply approach who ever and say what you are willing to pay, when they are willing to sell it for that they will do so, it may take some time, but they have to sell things to make a living plain and simple and as workers that have had to lower our prices to get work they also need to do the same. They are just trying on higher prices to see what they can get away with. If you allow it they get away with it and everyone pays the price.


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## Mr Ed (12 Feb 2010)

I hear what you're saying about consumer power Woodsworth, but I'm not sure how practically it would result in me buying the saw I want.

If I walk into Axminster tomorrow and tell them I've decided the saw is only worth £700 and thats my final offer, I imagine that after they've stopped laughing they'll show me the way out. The ebay item was on a buy it now, so presumably is only on offer at that price - if the seller was open to offers you'd think they would use an auction with a starting price that represented the minimum they would accept.

Chems got himself a great deal by shopping around and finding the right saw, which is great, but its not going to work out that way for all of us.

I like the idea of consumer power to directly influence the prices we pay for equipment, but I'm not sure the market is set up like that.

Ed


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## woodsworth (12 Feb 2010)

See i think this is what your led to believe. And of course they have there policies and procedures. You are led to believe the price is the price, right? well why is it they have sales? Why do they offer 10%, some times more on certain items.

The simple truth is the price is not the price, the sale price is the price and we are led to believe we got a good deal when we 've saved 10%. You simply e-mail them and tell them you are shopping around and this is the price you want to spend, when they don't give in you spend your money else where. Every time you want to buy something you do the same. They will soon realize how many sales they are loosing out on because of their own policies and procedures. It doesn't work over night, but it does work, trust me. You can get a good deal on your saw, but if you just give into your desire to have one then you will pay what they want you to pay.

Everyone should have this attitude when spending their money and soon it would shape the way business is done. That doesn't mean we hold them hostage by saying we will only pay some ridiculously low amount of money bit it is clear what something is worth. We don't want to buy shares in their company we only want what we are buying.


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## woodsworth (12 Feb 2010)

> If I walk into Axminster tomorrow and tell them I've decided the saw is only worth £700 and thats my final offer, I imagine that after they've stopped laughing they'll show me the way out.



They may well laugh at you that is why it is important to put it in writing. It will go to a manager that actually knows that saw is actually only worth £500 at best, but they are holding it hostage for £800, so £700 is a good deal for them, especially if you are going to go and buy one else where out of principle. 

They get enough such letters they will begin to notice!!!


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## Mr Ed (12 Feb 2010)

Hmm, this is a classic case of combined power though isn't it. If you knew everyone was going to do it, then it would be highly effective. If I try and do it on my own I just end up looking like a nutjob and not getting anywhere!

Ed


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## big soft moose (12 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":1hmn5asd said:


> Hmm, this is a classic case of combined power though isn't it. If you knew everyone was going to do it, then it would be highly effective. If I try and do it on my own I just end up looking like a nutjob and not getting anywhere!
> 
> Ed



i can tell you for a fact that they wont deal - i approached them to see if i could buy just the main unit of a TS200 , but theres no dice - they were quite pleasant but adamant that its only sold as a complete package (returns excepted) and that the price is the price and thats it.


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## woodsworth (12 Feb 2010)

> i can tell you for a fact that they wont deal - i approached them to see if i could buy just the main unit of a TS200 , but theres no dice - they were quite pleasant but adamant that its only sold as a complete package (returns excepted) and that the price is the price and thats it.



I agree that is their current policy. So what do you think would make them change that position?


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## dicktimber (12 Feb 2010)

Ed
what's wrong with the kity?

Could the price thing be directly related to
1 the Euro or $
2 the recession and numbers that were being sold a couple of years ago and what's being sold now.

Mind you If I win that Euro lotto tonight ....£181,000,000.....
who cares about a few quid!!!!


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## Mr Ed (12 Feb 2010)

Nothing wrong with the Kity, its a brilliant little saw. I'm just ready for more power and capacity I think.

Ed


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## Shane (12 Feb 2010)

I walked into the Axminster store today and got 10% off no trouble at all, but maybe cos my shopping list comprised of the AW12BSB2 saw, 12" planer thicknesser, floor standing morticer and extractor 8) 

I have looked around at prices of saws for so long now, and I keep coming back to the same conclusion that those axminster saws cant be beat on value, a 4hp saw on single phase, with 100mm depth of cut, sliding table and massive table width for a grand, yes please - looking forward to my delivery phone call now


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## Mr Ed (13 Feb 2010)

Shane":2cdh4gz8 said:


> I walked into the Axminster store today and got 10% off no trouble at all, but maybe cos my shopping list comprised of the AW12BSB2 saw, 12" planer thicknesser, floor standing morticer and extractor 8)
> 
> I have looked around at prices of saws for so long now, and I keep coming back to the same conclusion that those axminster saws cant be beat on value, a 4hp saw on single phase, with 100mm depth of cut, sliding table and massive table width for a grand, yes please - looking forward to my delivery phone call now



Yes I can see that a purchase like that would be a good position to ask for discount...good for you. I imagine that the saw on its own would not have swung it though.

Ed


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## Anonymous (13 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":1d6gozs6 said:


> I called in at Nuneaton this morning to have a close look at this saw and was really impressed. This is the machine thats basically the same as the popular SIP model.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It is considerably better than the SIP and it has been reviewed on here by myself and others (use the search for more info)


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## Mr Ed (13 Feb 2010)

Tony":13nmmvli said:


> It is considerably better than the SIP and it has been reviewed on here by myself and others (use the search for more info)



Thanks Tony - I've read your previous posts on the saw and from those and others I have a pretty positive impression of the machine. I can feel an order coming on....

Ed


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## Mr Ed (14 Feb 2010)

Sunday morning seemed as good a time as any to place an order, so I did!

Hopefully in a couple of weeks I'll be the owner of a new saw.  

The Kity 419 will be appearing in a for sale thread later once I've taken some photos.

Ed


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## woodsworth (14 Feb 2010)

After hearing that the Axminster is a better saw then the SIP my interest is peaked. I'd love to see some pictures when you get it and a full review if you don't mind.


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## wizer (14 Feb 2010)

Tony":m3q79xv4 said:


> It is *considerably *better than the SIP and it has been reviewed on here by myself and others (use the search for more info)



I'm sorry, but how can you back up this claim? Have you used both machines, extensively? Are all the owners of the SIP who highly regard it, talking hogwash?

Another bull$hit sweeping statement, I think!


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## Mike.C (14 Feb 2010)

wizer":1jcojd18 said:


> Tony":1jcojd18 said:
> 
> 
> > It is *considerably *better than the SIP and it has been reviewed on here by myself and others (use the search for more info)
> ...



Thank you Wizer, my exact thoughts and I have used a friends Axminster on a number of occasions. I have also done a review https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/long ... hlight=sip table review

I would agree that the Axminster is more visibly pleasing and getting the sliding table for £800 is a better deal, but there is no way on this earth that it is considerably better. Put it this way if all the differences of the two machines were covered up and I used both of them for exactly the same job I would not be able to tell the difference.

Cheers

Mike


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## Mr Ed (14 Feb 2010)

wizer":3nx4pgiy said:


> Tony":3nx4pgiy said:
> 
> 
> > It is *considerably *better than the SIP and it has been reviewed on here by myself and others (use the search for more info)
> ...



Well lets not worry about that, even if its identical to the SIP its still a good saw and will fit my needs. If its better than the SIP then great - either way its not worth arguing about.

Ed


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## Chems (14 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":1tvbiv8s said:


> wizer":1tvbiv8s said:
> 
> 
> > Tony":1tvbiv8s said:
> ...



I wondered so went back to find Tonys thread, he said that the mitre gauge was sloppy in the track, and thats true where as the axy one wasn't and that the base cabinet wasn't well put together, but that could be down to the person who put it together as it comes flat packed. So only small differences really is what I think Tony meant. 

Mike, any chance of updating your review with the pictures, I don't get any. 

Ed, well done on the new saw! Why such a long delivery time none in stock? I'll be really intrested to see what you have to say about setting up and using the sliding table.


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## Mr Ed (14 Feb 2010)

Chems":1fgj4yvi said:


> Ed, well done on the new saw! Why such a long delivery time none in stock? I'll be really intrested to see what you have to say about setting up and using the sliding table.



It might be quicker, they are in stock. I was mainly going on how long it took when I ordered my bandsaw, but then that was during the last 10% deal so they were maybe busy.

I'll report on the sliding table as soon as I can, although it appears slightly different (maybe only cosmetically) than the one you have. The brackets on mine appear to hang off the saw carcase rather than the table as yours do.

Ed


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## Chems (14 Feb 2010)

The adjustment for height and parallel weren't great on the SIP, did the job but a bit fiddly.


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## lemonjeff (14 Feb 2010)

Mr Ed":340l58s6 said:


> I'll report on the sliding table as soon as I can, although it appears slightly different (maybe only cosmetically) than the one you have. The brackets on mine appear to hang off the saw carcase rather than the table as yours do.
> 
> Ed


On mine the cast brackets weren't machined properly, I sent them back to be machined but some Muppet just took a turnip file to the wrong bit. It took nearly two weeks for them to do that and I ended up machining them myself.

However the main table saw is well built, accurate and has good repeatability without having to re-check the settings every time I use it.

Any saw in this price range needs a bit of tuning/fettling but the sliding table is a bit of a disappointment.

Jeff.


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