# Dating Spear and Jackson



## Martin Cash (15 Feb 2008)

Hi Everyone,
Can anyone help me to date this Spear and Jackson Handsaw.
I have searched the net to no avail.
http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/ ... aw8TPI.jpg
Thanks you in anticipation
MC
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## Philly (15 Feb 2008)

Martin
I'm no expert (although I do have a few S+J saws) but this looks like 1950 onwards. The saw has rivets instead of saw nuts and the original varnish has been removed from the handle. Don't pay too much for it - I normally buy these from local car boot sales for £1 - £2.
Hope this helps
Philly


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## bugbear (15 Feb 2008)

Martin Cash":3shpfalz said:


> Hi Everyone,
> Can anyone help me to date this Spear and Jackson Handsaw.
> I have searched the net to no avail.
> http://www.hansbrunnertools.gil.com.au/ ... aw8TPI.jpg
> ...



Fairly modern - 1960's I'd guess.

BugBear


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## Racers (15 Feb 2008)

Hi,
The second one down is a between the war Spear and Jackson, the handle is far more elaborate then yours indacating it must be later, so 60s looks about right. 






Pete


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Feb 2008)

Hi Martin

I have a couple of those panel saws ..






I think I paid about $10 each (perhaps a little less). They are in great condition and are really nice to use.

My guess is about 1960. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Martin Cash (15 Feb 2008)

Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Is there a web reference, similar to the Disstonian Institute, for Spear and Jackson Saws?

MC


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (15 Feb 2008)

Phily wrote:


> I'm no expert (although I do have a few S+J saws) but this looks like 1950 onwards. The saw has rivets instead of saw nuts



For reference, my handles are not rivetted. Whatever relevance that has ....  :? 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## bugbear (15 Feb 2008)

Martin Cash":1prnunpy said:


> Thanks everyone for the feedback.
> Is there a web reference, similar to the Disstonian Institute, for Spear and Jackson Saws?
> 
> MC



There is only one brand of saw (that I know of) that has a reference of that standard.

Ditto for planes - Blood & Gore is Stanley.

BugBear


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## head clansman (15 Feb 2008)

Hi Martin

Correct me if you like , If you dont i'm sure someone will . I think i read a long time ago that on the disston web site that S&J was swallowed up into there empire many years ago might be worth a look.

I think it came out once there under the superior warren /ted brand which was a second line production saw sold cheaper than there own disston brand. might be a pointer in the right direction.


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## Effigy (15 Feb 2008)

mjmpropman":267zxcnf said:


> I think i read a long time ago that on the disston web site that S&J was swallowed up into there empire many years ago might be worth a look.



Not true. Spear and Jackson was acquired by the Neill Tools group who manufacture under the names Eclipse, Moore & Wright, Tyzack amongst others.


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## head clansman (15 Feb 2008)

HI frank 

Spear & Jackson were originally an American company and i seem to remember that there was some sort of connection with disston sometime back in there history , you are correct in saying they were taking over by a company called Neill tool group but that never happened till 1989 and we are looking at an much older saw than that date albeit it is marked made in Sheffield, so where now ? it was just a pointer to see if more info could be found.


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## bugbear (15 Feb 2008)

mjmpropman":1yp9fket said:


> HI frank
> 
> Spear & Jackson were originally an American company and i seem to remember that there was some sort of connection with disston sometime back in there history , you are correct in saying they were taking over by a company called Neill tool group but that never happened till 1989 and we are looking at an much older saw than that date albeit it is marked made in Sheffield, so where now ? it was just a pointer to see if more info could be found.



Err. Perhaps you might reconsider some of those bold statements...

http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/en/about-us

http://www.timelesstools.co.uk/images/S ... ree0-1.jpg

BugBear


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## head clansman (15 Feb 2008)

Hi bug bear 

The main company of spear & Jackson (incorporated) manufacturing base is based here in England Strange though , the web site you give says its states its head quarters is in England and on other web sites it says its in Florida and give and american contact address plus it give it sales figures at $97 million dollars & net profits as $6.5million dollars not pounds ?


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## MrJay (16 Feb 2008)

Racers":1h8dbdt9 said:


> Hi,
> The second one down is a between the war Spear and Jackson.
> 
> 
> ...



What makes you say that?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just curious how you dated it.


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## Racers (16 Feb 2008)

HI, Mr Jay

I posetd the Pic on the oldtools list and that is what I was told, and it seems to fit with what I have gleened my self.


Pete


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## MrJay (16 Feb 2008)

Go on...

Only I'd guess (and it is a guess) at distinctly early 20th Century. I've a S & J panel saw that I supposed was between wars by way of being mostly an elegant thing, but showing signs of parts bin mentality in poor man's split nuts. I could be completely wrong. It's a mermaid saw with a suitable etching so it's at the very very earliest 1915ish or there abouts. Yours looks nicer/older. I've other saws with similar sensibilities to yours that date (by way of having dates scratched in them) to the turn of the century.


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## Wiley Horne (17 Feb 2008)

Martin,

I have a modest suggestion. That it is worth an email to Hans Brunner to get an opinion from him. Here's why... 

I only have one limited source of information, which is an Astragal Press reprint of the 1915 Spear and Jackson catalogue. No other catalogue. And I cannot make out the lettering on the medallions in the catalog. But. The saw in your link cannot be differentiated from S&J's skewback line--based on the level of detail shown in the catalog. I can make out quite well the lightly domed brass saw nuts, the drill pattern of the saw nuts and medallion, the gross features of the triple ring medallion (but not the lettering), the exact shaping of the handle and its let-in to the plate, the shape of the horns, the flats on the handle sides, and the fact that the blade is breasted as well as skew-backed. This all checks.

The slotted side of the screw, if it has one, would be on the side which is facing down in your photo. The smooth domed side showing in your link checks against the catalog.

Derek's saw can be differentiated from any saw in this catalog.

Now my blather doesn't prove anything. Because there is lettering in the medallion of the older saws which would likely either match or differentiate from yours, plus I don't know but what the 1915-look saws continued to be made for many more years. However, if you're interested in buying that saw, I suggest asking Hans what he makes of it, and also is there any etch left. For example, is it a 'Double Mermaid', 'Mermaid', or 'Leapfrog' brand, or is there a saw number which can be made out?

The saw you are pointing to bears enough similarity to the older saws in its gross features, to make it at least worth an inquiry. And perhaps Hans would quickly confirm what everyone is saying--that it's a later saw. But I'd ask.

Wiley


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## Martin Cash (18 Feb 2008)

Thank you everyone for your input.
I don't intend to purchase this saw.
I have one which is similar and wanted to post pictures on this forum to go with my inquiry. Unfortunately my image posting skills or rights are limited so I could not find a way to do it. Next best was to find one similar and post a link. That is what I did.
I value the feedback.
BTW mine has brass screws not the rivets that some S & J's have.
If I ever figure out how to post images properly I'll post it for comment.
Thanks again
MC


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## Effigy (18 Feb 2008)

mjmpropman":cmj508tl said:


> HI frank
> 
> Spear & Jackson were originally an American company and i seem to remember that there was some sort of connection with disston sometime back in there history , you are correct in saying they were taking over by a company called Neill tool group but that never happened till 1989 and we are looking at an much older saw than that date albeit it is marked made in Sheffield, so where now ? it was just a pointer to see if more info could be found.



O/T to the main point of the thread, but as background

Spear & Jackson were very much a British Company. The company first took shape as far back as 1650'ish, making agricultural tools.

The Disston connection came about because Spear & Jackson were in protracted discussions to buy the saws business from Disston, but the deal fell through at a very late stage.

I was the Accountant there from 1988 to 1993.

Ownership has become a little hazy as of late, in that I heard that the Neill Tools group was actually sold to the Ames Corporation of America, but not sure of that.


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