# My Cyclone Build



## The Bear (14 Oct 2011)

Cyclones seem to be flavour of the month at the moment so I thought I'd post my build.
Hopefully it will be a bit of a different build compared to others. Two of the main "ingredients" are going to be cardboard and masking tape - I kid you not, but I'm confident it will work, we'll have to wait and see...
I am basing it on the Bill Pentz design. However I am not intending to get bent out of shape about his complicated maths/airflows etc. It seems to me many people have built all sorts of cyclones without his scientific knowledge and they work very well. My intended ducting size is 4 inch so an immediate departure from Bill's advice. His design calls for 6 inch diameter ducting and an 18 inch diameter cyclone. As my intended ducting size is 2/3 of his I am building a cyclone to 2/3 size of his plans. Thats my rational anyway, it may not work, but I hope it does. Well my cyclone is going to have a 12.5 inch diameter so 2/3ish is probably more accurate.

So I started with some birch ply out of a skip and cut 4 squares that are going to be the supports







These then had a 12.5 inch diameter hole routed in them. This is the first time I've used the trammel and it was quite easy to use. Didn't quite go all the way through as its the outside I want and didn't want to ruin it.


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## The Bear (14 Oct 2011)

Which left me with 3 pieces cut to the right diameter and a fourth that will become the top and need a smaller hole at a later date






I them cut the last mill with the jigsaw and then used a flush trimmer in the router to give the full depth cut out 






Next was knocking the corners off. In reality they were just too big for my mitre guage, but without any other way to cut them I sort of managed.






It did however cause a bit of burning where they weren't properly supported at the start of the cut






Thats the supporting rings all made

Mark


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## The Bear (14 Oct 2011)

The supports were paired up and holes drilled for later. The 2 supports for the upper cylinder were then temporarily joined with a couple of supports ready for me to form the drum.






Will post some more in a few days

Mark


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## Noel (14 Oct 2011)

Interesting, look forward to future updates.


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## Max Power (15 Oct 2011)

Looking forward to the next installment


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

Right, I've now made the cylinder and cone and this is how. Starting with the cylinder. It is made from 300g cardboard and needed 2 A1 sheets to get all the way round the formers. I had to buy these but are only £1 per sheet. The seems are joined with masking tape. I initially tried glue but it made the card ever so slightly wrinkled when the join dried.






It was then a case of carefully going round the inside stapling the card to the former. The staples are temporary so no need to be neat or worry about them sitting flush






Eventually getting all the way round and then the join can be trimmed and taped up







Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

You can see from this photo the card sits tight against the former and follows it perfectly for a perfect circle






Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

Mark


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## Chems (18 Oct 2011)

Looks really good, be interested to see what happens.

Is cardboard air tight? And what happens when the cyclone sucks in a pointy larger bit that bangs around the inside, won't it just fly out?


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

Onto the cone. This was quite tricky and required a bit of trial and error to get the right length and diameter at the top and bottom. Oh and a lot of masking tape to hold it inside and out.






In can't support its own weight so just flops while laying on its side






However once sat in the former it sits in a perfect cone







Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

Chems

You are quite right, the card board is just to get the shape, it will be strengthened and made air tight later. I would have loved to make it from metal but do not have the skills, so have come up with my own way. By the time I've finished uploading photos today you will see where this is going :wink: 

Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

Then had to try and make sure it was sitting evenly in the former and not off to one side, which I had to do very carefully by eye 






Which means I could cut off the excess






I also wedged a roll of tape in the bottom to help keep that round. The cone at the bottom is longer than needed at the moment and where the radius gets very tight it wants to deform. I will trim that to the right length/diameter later







Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

The cone was then secured in the right position with more masking tape






Mark


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## The Bear (18 Oct 2011)

So here's where it starts to get strengthened and made air tight.

The outsides of both bits had polyester resin brushed on. I was quite concerned that this would wet the card too much and possibly make it soggy, so I made sure it was a very thin layer. However I had nothing to worry about as it turned out.











The grey/white band is a trick of the light. There are some more discs in the cone stopping the light getting to the bottom and some of it is double thickness card.

Mark


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## dh7892 (19 Oct 2011)

Looks good so far. I'll be following progress with interest. 

What are you going to use for the blower? Just a shop vac or something bigger?

Dave


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## woodpig (19 Oct 2011)

Looking good. There was me thinking cardboard will be no good, then you went and applied resin to it - good thinking!


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## The Bear (19 Oct 2011)

With regards to the blower, I'm still undecided. When I first started thinking about this I was going to get hold of a multi motor Camvac with the hope I'd get some suction off power tools with a smaller hose as well as 4 inch on the machines.

I'm now leaning towards the normal HVLP blower route taken from a standard double bag chip extractor

I am a couple of weeks ahead of the WIP at the moment so will try and bring this thread up to date when I get chance, I've got lots more photos to post

Mark


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## dh7892 (20 Oct 2011)

I have been considering trying to make a similar system to what you are proposing (i.e. trying to use a HVLP blower - in my case, I am eyeing up the Axminster AWDE extractor http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awede-extractor-prod376272/).

But I was unsure how useful it would be in cases where I want to move small volumes of fine dust (i.e. router) so I'll be very interested to see how you get on.

The other thing I was thinking about was just replacing the top (filter) bag with ducting to vent outside the workshop which should eliminate any dust getting fed back into the air inside.


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## The Bear (20 Oct 2011)

Not sure about how well it will work with a router, everything I read suggests not that great but I don't know

Venting outside is ok in summer but in winter all the warm air is blown outside to be replaced by cold air


Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

To pick up the build...

Once the thin coat of resin was dry, the cone and cylinder had a nice "plastic" ring to them when tapped. It was then a process of building up layers of resin and chopped strand mat. I started with a layer of 100g to add a bit of strength before a started pressing anything thicker into place






A the same time I kept brushing layers of resin on the inside of both parts.






Obviously each layer needed to dry between coats so this took a number of days to do. Eventually on the outside I built up a layer of 100g mat, 2 layers of 350g mat and a layer of surface tissue. 
The inside had about 7 layers of resin brushed on but no mat. I did take a series of pics of this but to be honest, they all look the same. On the inside there was obviously a small seam where the cardboard overlapped. I did lap it the correct way for the airflow but also between each coat of resin I sanded the seam down so now it isn't actually detectable when you run your hand over, all nice and smooth. I also added a bead of gripfil between the drums and the wooden rings. 






Here's what they looked like when finished.











Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

I then started to build the air intake. Ideally I needed some thin flat plastic. But I didn't have any so I used some more cardboard  

I the built up several layers of resin and matting on it







When done I hacksawed it down to the sizes I needed






Then stuck it together with masking tape and set it with resin and matting












Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Next job was to try and work out where to make the cut out in the upper drum to fit it in. It fits at an angle. The angle needs to be such that a line taken from the top of the inlet meets the bottom of the inlet after one full turn, and will be the path of the air ramp. My mate whos a physics teacher worked the angle out for me, and Ijust lined it up by eye.











Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Next the nervous bit, cutting it out. The beauty of fibreglass is it can be patched, but still very nervous about getting it right first time. I drilled out a row of holes to get the hacksaw in.






I got about an inch and a half before the hacksaw blade broke






I then got about another inch and a half before it broke again






At that point I gave up and got the jigsaw out which I should have done at the start.






But it did wreck the brand new blade and just shows how strong this now is







Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Test fit, very happy






















Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Time to introduce a bit of metal into the mix, 4 inch spital ducting






The first piece is to form the outlet to the collection drum. First the bottom of the cone is marked






Then cut off with the grinder








Fitted and grip filled to the inside











Eventually it was glassed over






I am aware some people have found 4 inch too narrow for the outlet to the drum. Time will tell but it will be easy to grind off and redo with 6 inch pipe if needed.


Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Next job was the transition from the inlet to the round pipe. Started by making a jig to hold it.






Next was the flat parts pre made






Then with bare cardboard and lots of masking tape, stick in the curved sections and apply resin and matting in layers











View down the inside






I did have to improvise with the brushes to keep building the layers up on the inside







Mark


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Which leaves me with these parts






I have now joined the upper drum to the inlet with more resin/matting







I hope people are finding this interesting, its been a learning curve for me with the fibreglassing. I'll have more pics to post in a few days.



Mark


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## Karl (24 Oct 2011)

Loving the build. It's really interesting seeing how somebody else approaches things.

Cheers

Karl


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## MickCheese (24 Oct 2011)

Really interesting for me too.

I want more!

Mick


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## MrA (24 Oct 2011)

That looks really good, needs a lot of patience, makes my modified Triton look a little sad, the small sense of pride I had is now somewhat diminished.


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## The Bear (24 Oct 2011)

Glad people are enjoying the build

MrA remember I have not seen your triton but it sounds like it is both finished and working, mine is neither yet


Mark


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## MickCheese (25 Oct 2011)

I am a little confused :? 

Correct me if I have this wrong.

The extractor sucks from the top of the round drum?

The dust enters via the square entry port into the round drum and gravity causes the particles to drop down?

The cone is below the round drum and has a catch bin beneath?

Does the cone cause a vortex that travels up into the round drum?

What stops the dust just following the path of the airflow?

Why is the entry port not in the side of the cone like other cyclones I have seen?

Have I got this completely wrong?

A bit deep for 8am I know or is this another thread altogether.

I told you I was interested!

Mick


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## The Bear (25 Oct 2011)

Mick

I am no expert at this, which is why my design is a copy of the bill pent design. There are obviously other designs such as those sold by Chems that work just as well which have no upper drum, as you say, the inlet straight into the cone. 

With the design I am following, yes the air is sucked out of the top, but there are a couple of more bits to make. One is the lid which has a pipe which descends into the top drum, so I guess it actually sucks from the middle of the drum not the top in reality. There is also an air ramp which helps get the air going into a vortex. As for the cone, I don't think it causes the vortex as such, the air will swirl in it and yes it will funnel the chips to a drum below.

But as I said, I'm no expert, just copying someone else's plans 

Mark


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## MickCheese (25 Oct 2011)

Mark

Thanks for the answers, you just got me thinking, looking forward to seeing this in action.

You are doing a great job, keep it up.

Mick


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## Kernow (27 Oct 2011)

The Bear can I ask what table saw you have in your pictures? :mrgreen:


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## beech1948 (27 Oct 2011)

Great job, keep it up.
I am amazed at your choice of materials. I have held back from building a cyclone because of the need to solder galvanised metal components. What a way to go !!.

Watching with great interest.

Alan


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## Aled Dafis (27 Oct 2011)

Excellent build, I'm very impressed. I've never done any fibreglassing, but you make it look easy, which I'm sure it isn't.

Aled


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## Mark A (27 Oct 2011)

The table saw looks like a Delta unisaw, but I may be wrong.

Really good build! I'm thinking about making a cyclone so this is perfect timing. Where did you get the fibreglass and resin from? I've bought it from a roofing supplier in the past, but I've found that it can be bought online for less.

Thanks,
Mark


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## The Bear (28 Oct 2011)

Kernow

My saw has been correctly identified by Mark Aspin


Alan/Aled

My descision to build it this was are exactly the same as yours. The thing about the fibreglass is it can be ground off and redone/patched, though I have not needed to do that yet. It is only the second thing I have made using it, the first being a nice flat lid for something in the garden. That was a massive learning curve, knowing how much I could use at once, how quickly it goes off and how to bend the matting around a corner. I'm still learning but its not that difficult once you have an idea of the properties of it.

Mark

I was given the matting by a member on here a while ago, a massive roll that I think will never run out! The resin and other bits and bobs came from here as recommended by JasonB
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/
I still had alot of the bits I needed left over from my previous project so I've only probably spent about £30 on the extra resin and disposable brushes I needed.


Hope that all helps


Mark


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## The Bear (1 Nov 2011)

Time for some more. Unfortunately I've not got much done in this last week but here's whats happened

first I got the inlet fully attached to the upper drum both inside and out. Hopefully you cann see the angle it goes in at 

















Mark


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## The Bear (1 Nov 2011)

I thenn needed to route some circles in the lid which up to now had remained solid. However the trammel bar I used earlier would not allow me to route a small enough hole. So I built this, copied off the jigs and tips forum. Took about an hour.








Mark


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## The Bear (1 Nov 2011)

I started by routing a shallow circle in what will become the inside of the lid, same diameter as the drum






Then a smaller circle on the inside, almost all the way through






The on a quarter of the the arc, the radius was extended by a few mill






I then cut it out completely with a trim bit. Then flipped it back over routed the inside of that large shallow circle






Then cut off a piece of spiral ducting and slotted in. You can see why the arc had to be extended on 25% of the small circle






More next week


Mark


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## beech1948 (3 Nov 2011)

the first and most obvious worry is that wood particles are very abrasive. Are there any examples of fiberglass withstanding such as assault.

Kit Cars I suppose withstand the grit and rubbish from UK roads for many years. Any other examples.

Al


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## fluffflinger (3 Nov 2011)

Al

As I understand it the only place that suffers from constant bombardment and consequential wear is the area opposite the incoming ducting (well this is according to Mr Pentz and we shall not argue with God). To that end if the final design allows access to this area then another coat of resin would be easily applied, or if you wished a small section of Kevlar Cloth could be laminated into this area for the ultimate bomb proof solution.

My experience (boatbulding) with fibreglass and resin, although I prefer epoxy to polyester, is that it's extremely strong and offers good wear resisitance. Plus it is really easy to repair, replace, modify, create molded parts etc and generally fabricate into things that you couldn't make as easily by any other method. Only down side is it can if you are not careful it will become a sticky and therefore messy process. 

So far I'm loving the build. 

Regards

Richard


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## The Bear (3 Nov 2011)

Al
I have no idea if this will all work in the end. I had wondered about wear myself. I am hoping to be able to seal the upper drum and lower cone so that it can be taken apart and maintainance done if needed. Both are at least 3mm thick now and feel very strong, I'll get the calipers on it if I remember and measure exactly at some point. As I have said throughout I am no expert on either cyclones or fibreglassing. Richards comments do make me optomistic though as he seems to have some experience of this material. Now, Kevlar, that sounds interesting, where do I get a small bit of that from?

Mark


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## fluffflinger (3 Nov 2011)

Mark

Kevlar is expensive stuff and unless you were going to laminate the whole inside I wouldn't bother as it wouldn't come out as smooth as your approach, and smooth airflow is a key component of cyclones I think. If you have problems in the future or want to rebuild to higher spec use a woven cloth rather than chopped strand mat, much stronger and easier to get a smooth surface good finish. 

I could see a few issues with wear as it's only resin, then cardboard, then the cloth and the resin isn't as tough when in it's raw state , after all it is designed to be used i conjunction with a fibrglass cloth of some kind. If you have problems and can get access then I would cover the wear area with a light cloth and use epoxy, it will happily bond to cured polyester resin.

Right now get it finished and working and make improvements on Mark II. :lol: 

Regards

Richard


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## The Bear (3 Nov 2011)

Richard

Thank you for the info on epoxy and woven cloth, will keep that idea in back up should I need it. It won't be that hard to line the inside.

I do not intend to make a mark 2 if I can help it!!!

Mark


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## fluffflinger (3 Nov 2011)

Mark

If you do choose to use a further layer of cloth just make sure you abrade the surface to give a good mechanical tooth. Use the lightest cloth possible as you already more than enough mechanical strength in your current build. and possibly overcoat with another thin layer of epoxy resin, best to do this before the last application has fully cured that way you don't need to sand. 

I'm trying to think of a way of rotating the piece whilst you do this to make sure that epoxy flows and gives you the best final surface possible. 

You'll work it out you've proved that with the build so far.

Regards

Richard


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## cadders75 (7 Nov 2011)

You could bond an aluminium wear plate onto the resin surface, a decent MMA adhesive should give a good bond between the Aly and Resin face, though a light abrasion then acetone wipe would help adhesion.

If you can post cure the laminate it would certainly help increase the properties, if you could hold it around 40°C for 16 hours you would definitely see some improvements.


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## The Bear (8 Nov 2011)

Another good idea, thank you.

I'll try and post some more updates this week

Mark


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## The Bear (9 Nov 2011)

A few updates

I finished making the lid assembly. The spiral dust was bonded onto the wooden lid.






Once this was cured, the resin/matting was then extended beyond the top.






I've found it easier to do this and cut back a new edge than try and finish the fibreglass neatly






Temporary in place to get an idea of how it goes together







Mark


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## The Bear (9 Nov 2011)

Viewed from the other side. There is about 2 mm gap between the outlet pipe and the edge of the inlet pipe, which is what I was aimimg for. The second picture is a bit of an optical illusion as it is nether wider at one end or as bit as it looks in the photo, you'll have to take my word for that.











Mark


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## The Bear (10 Nov 2011)

I've started to make the fifth and final piece of this build. It's the part I've been least looking forward to as I thought it would be the most difficult, and I'm finding I was right to think that. Bills instructions (for metal) make it sound quite easy, but its clearly not going to be.

First was the usual applying resin to card board to give me some flexable sheets to work with and cut the basic circle






I then (badly) made a former






I cut the inner circle out and using a combination of nails and tape bent it round it and held it in place












Mark


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## dh7892 (10 Nov 2011)

Lookin' good so far. 

Keep up the good work.


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## Max Power (10 Nov 2011)

Brilliant thread , I keep looking for the next installment every-time I'm on the site (hammer)


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## fluffflinger (10 Nov 2011)

Mark

All you need now is some sticky back plastic and the Blue Peter Badge is in the bag!!!!

Excellent work and a whole heap of fun I'm sure.

Regards

Richard


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## Chems (10 Nov 2011)

I love your former!


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## The Bear (11 Nov 2011)

Thanks for the encouragement guys, it is very much appreciated.

Very brief update

With the ramp nailed and taped in position on the former, I applied a couple of layers of matting and resin to it. Not pretty when done:






However once cured, I cut most of the mess off. It now fully supports itself and the ends are the right distance apart to be stuck to the top and bottom edges of the rectangular inlet pipe.






It will also have several more layers on it and look better, and be smoother, by the time I've finished.

I'm very busy the next 2 to 3 weeks so its unlikely I'll get to do much more on this until the end of the month, but I'll post some photos when I have some.

Mark


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## The Bear (6 Dec 2011)

Back from my hols and back to working on this, though Xmas now seems to be getting in the way.

This is what it looked like when it was fitted in the drum.






I'm not sure how well it shows in the picture but I was not happy with the fit. What I didn't realise was when the 2 ends of the ramp opened to line up with the top and bottom of the inlet, it pulled the circle in slightly. This meant that the ramp was not tight up against the inside of the drum. It also meant the hole in the middle of the ramp was now too small to let the outlet tube drop in. I tried to extend the ramp on its outside diamater and gring away some of the inside. This did work and make it fet but was not as smooth and well made as I would like. Because of that I decided to make another, using the first one as a template. I stuck the first one back to the former and used it to support and template the new one






Mark


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## The Bear (6 Dec 2011)

I applied a small amount of resin and mat and then went for the test fit again






I was much happier with it this time so I took it out and made it a bit more heavy duty with a couple of layers of 350g mat






Mark


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## The Bear (6 Dec 2011)

This is it fitted in and clamped in place. It is stuck to the rectangular inlet at the top and bottom with a small bead of gripfill. 

Viewed from above







And the buisness end below. The ramp is joined to the drum with a bead of gripfill above and below all round the edge






I'm now very pleased with it. Its a good fit and very smooth. I now need to build up the layers of resin on the buisness side (bottom) and resin and mat above and extend the matting up the sides of the drum.

Thats all for now

Mark


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## stef (8 Dec 2011)

very interesting thread. i have just received a turbine fitted with a 2.2kw 3phase motor. i intend to build a cyclone from scratch, not unlike yours. so this is very interesting !


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## mike s (9 Dec 2011)

very interesting
looking forward to seeing the end product


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## The Bear (12 Dec 2011)

I'm having problems progressing this at the moment as I don't seem to have any time but that's not stopping me thinking about the next steps. I have always intended to add a coloured flow coat to the outside to make it a bit neater. I was going to leave the inside as it is since it will not be seen. I am now thinking of adding a coloured flow coat inside. My thinking is that if there is any wear it will be more obvious when I check it and can then make any repairs needed. Anyone see any probs with this idea? 

Mark


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## The Bear (1 Feb 2012)

Time to resurrect this thread. Been a busy few months and not had much workshop time.

The ramp has had a number of layers or resin built up on it, now has a thick layer of plastic and doesnt reallt flex when pressed.






You can see I have also cut the excess cylinder off that protruded beyond the ply rings.

Upper drum and lower cone have had a layer of flowcoat applied, making it look a lot neater











Now thats the main construction done, save for any repairs or improvements I need to make once I have it running.

Now just need to fasten the 3 bits together. Oh and buy an extractor to power it and a drum to catch the chips. I am swinging back to the thought of running it off a camvac rather than a standard HVLP blower from a chip extractor, but might change my mind again.

Mark


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## Drift (28 Mar 2012)

that is increadible. Please let us know how get on once you get your engine sorted out.

thanks for sharing


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## Chems (28 Mar 2012)

In my quest to keep my drop box section current I found these guys on ebay the other night if thats any use for your dropbox:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/205-LITRE-45- ... 3cc2e85d3c


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## The Bear (30 Mar 2012)

This is now finished but is currently sat on a shelf.
I need to buy a drop box and some flexible 4 inch pipe and build a wall bracket.

The main reason for not having it set up yet though is the extractor to power it. I keep looking on the bay but nothing has come at a reasonable price. 

I am also still pondering whether to go traditional HVLP or buy a camvac. I believe the camvac could be used to draw from power tools as well as the machines. My workshop is only about 5 x 6 metres so no big runs and is well away from all the houses so the brush motors are also no major concern. Anyone tried a camvac with a cyclone? 

Mark


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## johnf (30 Mar 2012)

I have one of these for sale if your interested pm me
http://www.charnwood.net/shop/product/c ... ctor?cid=8


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## gorttman (13 Feb 2014)

Hi "Bear" 
I found your thread whilst searching for infor on home built cyclones.

Like you I'm a little put off about working with metals. So I found your approach very interesting. However the posts stopped without a report on performance. 

Could you update us all on how you went with your novel method? How is it holding up to use? Also, is it quieter than a metal cyclone?

thanks

Gorttman


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