# Small workshop - Pent or Apex?



## stormy121 (24 Sep 2022)

So I'm in the final design stage of my new shed build and wanted to get some advice for the pros and cons of each.

I am only 5ft 4" so height isn't a major factor...much! I intend on using felt on the roof with insulation later on.

Here is a very rough 3d model of both with me in Blue  





I intend on using the shed for storage and the use of a mini workshop as I do a lot of woodworking in my spare time 

This is where it hit me, Pent or Apex? I like both and so far the pros I have noticed are that a Pent roof will cost me less (£23.04p exactly).

Here is a very rough 3d model of both with me in Blue 

So thoughts? cons/pros etc?

Cheers guys!


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## Jameshow (24 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> So I'm in the final design stage of my new shed build and wanted to get some advice for the pros and cons of each.
> 
> I am only 5ft 4" so height isn't a major factor...much! I intend on using felt on the roof with insulation later on.
> 
> ...


I'd use the space between tween the rafters for timber storage.


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## TheUnicorn (24 Sep 2022)

I have never built a shed, but my instinct is to say there is no benefit to an apex over a pent. 

I'm pretty tall, so can only ever stand up straight in the middle of an apex, a pent would give me more usable space, but I would say the same would be true for anyone, in as much as a long shelf could be put across the top of the window and door giving good storage.


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## Lazurus (24 Sep 2022)

Pent with DPM over.


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## Inspector (24 Sep 2022)

Comes down to preferring one gutter or two. 

Pete


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## Jacob (24 Sep 2022)

Taller apex, say 40º pitch, costs little extra, sheds water better, gives more air and hence better quality, can be a storage space, could have skylight for top class daylighting, better electric lighting if high and not just above head height, might be room for handling 8x4ft sheets or turning longer pieces of wood.


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## clogs (24 Sep 2022)

do urself a favour and just buy steel panel insulated roof.....
it will self support over 3.5m at 40mm thick....
saves on wood plus it's already white inside... 
No maintainence....
it's just fit and forget for at least 20 yers and prob more ........
I'd go pent because it's fast and watertight in a couple hours.......


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## Spectric (24 Sep 2022)

You don't mention it's position within your property, but essentially it comes down to your preference, the pent roof is simpler not having a ridge and just a single gutter run but others will prefer an apex which might allow more height under the building regs.


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## stormy121 (24 Sep 2022)

Spectric said:


> You don't mention it's position within your property, but essentially it comes down to your preference, the pent roof is simpler not having a ridge and just a single gutter run but others will prefer an apex which might allow more height under the building regs.


Its at the rear of my property, there is a large area (14x6ft) that i intend on using for the shed, i like both and ease of building isn't an issue i enjoy woodworking so like challenges  Jameshow pointed out about storage in the ceiling which i like the idea of, I'm a short chap so height isn't too major really but if I'm working with larger projects i will probably just rip it down outside of the shed anyway, i just want something a little bit better than a bog standard shed that keeps the temp better also, none of this fully insulated stuff just basic stuff haha


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## MARK.B. (24 Sep 2022)

Both styles have their pro's an con's , apex gives you more height but only in the middle section,extra storage in the rafters can come in useful .
Pent is easier and quicker to build, no overhead rafters to store things on but gives a clear space to swing stuff around,only one gutter to clean out
Can you go wider than 6 foot? 8 foot would give you more room to swing a cat.
Where you are putting the shed/workshop would imho look better with a pent roof rather than apex


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## TRITON (24 Sep 2022)

As above with some of the replies. Apex affords a bit more space to use for storage and to recess lighting better, or somewhere to route extractor tubing.


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## Inspector (25 Sep 2022)

I admire you guys for working in such small spaces. I couldn't do it. I do believe the cost of insulation for a small shop is very low and skimping on some of it just makes it cool off faster or take that much more to heat up and it takes very little extra effort to do well. Always your decision.

Pete


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## Seascaper (25 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> So I'm in the final design stage of my new shed build and wanted to get some advice for the pros and cons of each.
> 
> I am only 5ft 4" so height isn't a major factor...much! I intend on using felt on the roof with insulation later on.
> 
> ...


Hello, 
For me the decision would be quite simple, an apex roof is a much nicer looking shed so if you have to look at it and want it to look nice always go for an apex. Make sure the apex is a good pitch, a shallow pitch is no good for the English weather. It will cost more but will be many times better. 
Regards


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## okeydokey (25 Sep 2022)

As Seascaper says
Plus go to somewhere selling sheds and look at their assembled showroom walk around look at each from different angles and see which aesthetically appeals most. - that will help you decide. See what angle they use for the Pent.
Door position is important, do you want a long bench or a shorter one with the door alongside?
Think about overhead lighting at this stage


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## pe2dave (25 Sep 2022)

Pent. Why? Simplicity of build, less joints (leaks).


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## TheUnicorn (25 Sep 2022)

I'm still leaning towards pent, but I agree with others that apex does give better run off for water, so I'd be looking to get the maximum slope I reasonably could regardless of design. I'd also make sure you get really heavy duty roofing felt rather than the normal thin tat that is everywhere, I gather they sell thicker felt for flat roofs, or possibly better the edpm kits that have no seams Skyguard Garden Building Roofing Kit Membrane 10' x 7'

I'd also definately look to insulate


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## naughtymoose (25 Sep 2022)

I made mine with a flat level roof, and added firring strips on top to create the pent. The result is that I was able to maximise the height within the workshop, and allows me to store tools hanging from the ceiling.


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## pe2dave (25 Sep 2022)

TheUnicorn said:


> I'm still leaning towards pent, but I agree with others that apex does give better run off for water, so I'd be looking to get the maximum slope I reasonably could regardless of design.


Such a small roof area, surely runoff won't be an issue?


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## johna.clements (25 Sep 2022)

https://cdn.imagearchive.com/ukworkshop/data/attach/124/124761-IMG20220913095240.jpg



You have stated in the previous threads on the same subject that the shed is going on the paved area where this small shed is currently located. Photo the location above.

I understand that the lawn is small so space is at a premium.

You want to maximum the size of the shed in this small space, well I would.

In one of your previous threads in the last week or so you have stated that the wall with the trellis on top is about 2.3m high.

If you leave a gap between the shed and the walls you will have difficulty removing leaves etc which, combined with the lack of sunlight to dry, will rot the back of the shed.

If you leave a bigger gap so you can get in clean behind the shed you will loose a lot of space. You could put the shed up high enough so that the leaves either blow out or you could rake and hose them out but that reduces the available height.


As I suggested in one of the earlier threads on the same subject a week ago why not rest the shed roof on the* top* of the wall. this would remove the gap completely giving you more space.

Since you do not own the property? in part with the council you do not want to fix to the wall.
"The wall could take the vertical load from the snow or people on the roof. You would have to have some timber ties from the roof joists down to the the shed floor to stop the wind trying to lift the roof. The end panels of the shed would have to be able be more substantial to stop racking as the wall side would not help."

It looks like the trellis runs down the middle of the wall so that limit the bearing width on the top of the wall, unless you received permission or just removed the trellis and replaced it when you left.

I would go for a pent roof. Slope toward the lawn if the trellis can not be removed or the car parking space behind the wall is just designated rather than part of the house's curtilage.


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## Sachakins (25 Sep 2022)

It's not your height, but size of projects. It will be difficult to move 8ft lengths in 6ft shed. Doing roughing cuts outside is fine, till the rain and wind get up.
I got an apex 24 x 8, was 16x8 till I lengthened it.
It's a low height low pitch apex, wish I'd gone for a taller apex, as no overhead storage, and if I've got my face shield up, it catches on cross beams, I'm only 5ft 8, but feel enclosed.

If Doing it again I'd go for full height apex and 16 x 10 or 12, 8ft too narrow really, imagine 6ft even tighter.

(Going from 16 to 24 doesn't help working space, but great for storage.)


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## artie (25 Sep 2022)

I don't think anyone else mentioned, and maybe it's not an issue, but, if using felt over sheet roofing then the same head clearance can be achieved at less cost with an apex roof.


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## johna.clements (25 Sep 2022)

Sachakins said:


> It's not your height, but size of projects. It will be difficult to move 8ft lengths in 6ft shed. Doing roughing cuts outside is fine, till the rain and wind get up.
> I got an apex 24 x 8, was 16x8 till I lengthened it.
> It's a low height low pitch apex, wish I'd gone for a taller apex, as no overhead storage, and if I've got my face shield up, it catches on cross beams, I'm only 5ft 8, but feel enclosed.
> 
> ...


The shed have to fit in the space available. It is a pity that the op did not repost the photo (see above) of the location in this thread.

I would bet that the photo was taken from the back door, the lawn is very small. I also would not be surprised if the gate is hung off a wall that separates the garden from the neighbours.

There is no room unless the whole garden becomes the shed!

Added
Photo


https://cdn.imagearchive.com/ukworkshop/data/attach/124/124761-IMG20220913095240.jpg


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

Wow lots of input here, thanks guys! i am leaning toward attaching to the back wall more and more as i plan it out, would be easy to do but would mean a more shallow pent roof if i do it, i intend on using felt still mind only issue i see with it is not being able to have the higher part of the shed at the front!, already accounted for the rear and intended on adding a set of paving slabs forward to create a gap at the back.

Something that has come up is the difference between the wood grade, I've no experience with c16+ ratings etc but have a basic understanding.

I can get treated wood that's pressure treated with, or without the rating, its going to be the framework of the shed, does it really "need" to be c16+? what benefit will i personally see from using this c16+ wood over the same but without the rating?


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## johna.clements (25 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> Wow lots of input here, thanks guys! i am leaning toward attaching to the back wall more and more as i plan it out, would be easy to do but would mean a more shallow pent roof if i do it, i intend on using felt still mind only issue i see with it is not being able to have the higher part of the shed at the front!, already accounted for the rear and intended on adding a set of paving slabs forward to create a gap at the back.
> 
> Something that has come up is the difference between the wood grade, I've no experience with c16+ ratings etc but have a basic understanding.
> 
> I can get treated wood that's pressure treated with, or without the rating, its going to be the framework of the shed, does it really "need" to be c16+? what benefit will i personally see from using this c16+ wood over the same but without the rating?


If you do not own the wall why do you want to attach the the shed to it, then you have to remove the fixings and repair the wall when you leave. (If you rest the roof on the wall it is not attached)

Why would resting the roof on top of a 2.3m high wall mean a more shallow pent. That would give you 200mm for a sole plate and rafters and felt up to 2.5m. The low side could be as low as you want.

Not sure why you would have a gap at the wall if the shed is attached to the wall or as I suggest the roof rests on the wall (that you do not own rather than use fixings)

C16 is a strength grade for timber. The shed will be blown by the wind and at some pint have snow on the roof/ plus people.


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

johna.clements said:


> If you do not own the wall why do you want to attach the the shed to it, then you have to remove the fixings and repair the wall when you leave. (If you rest the roof on the wall it is not attached)
> 
> Why would resting the roof on top of a 2.3m high wall mean a more shallow pent. That would give you 200mm for a sole plate and rafters and felt up to 2.5m. The low side could be as low as you want.
> 
> ...



I've sent an email to hopfully get permission to affix it to the wall, resting it on the top would look weird XD i'm just messing with the design and its abit low for my liking at the front but if i raise it up to 2m at the front the angle of the roof is really shallow which is my only major concern, i know you say to rest on the back wall but i would rather fix it to the wall and be level with it at least to allow the water to run off.

So am i right in thinking i would be better off using C16? is it really needed that much? remember my old shed was built out of 25mm/50mm roof battens and it held my weight and still stands today haha

I don't want to build something that will last a lifetime just enough to be usable for some of my projects, insulation isnt a major thing but it is something i want due to keeping tools in there, still shopping around for prices near me but my god have they gone up! debating on waiting till next year but just so stuck on it right now.


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## Sachakins (25 Sep 2022)

johna.clements said:


> The shed have to fit in the space available. It is a pity that the op did not repost the photo (see above) of the location in this thread.
> 
> I would bet that the photo was taken from the back door, the lawn is very small. I also would not be surprised if the gate is hung off a wall that separates the garden from the neighbours.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the picture, I see more clearly now.
So for the OP,
Ok, so width is restricted, I assume depth is governed by aesthetics, hence 6ft not 8 or 10?.

I wouldn't be trying to fix to wall in any form, just making things awkward for your self. Keep it free standing, use decent tanalised timber for external walls/cladding.
My shed back and side are tight up to fence also, so to be double safe I also felted these external sides, using 3mm heavy roofing felt.
I would do apex, but not along its length,I would go from side to side, called reverse apex, with 63mm small gutter profile at each end.
Like this..


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

Sachakins said:


> Thanks for the picture, I see more clearly now.
> So for the OP,
> Ok, so width is restricted, I assume depth is governed by aesthetics, hence 6ft not 8 or 10?.
> 
> ...


May i ask why you think reverse apex? the image you have added is what i wanted from the apex but is there a specific reason a reverse apex would work better? May i ask if you could explain a little bit more on the felt on the external sides? i cant see any on your image ha! The timber i can get is either PSE tanalised treated or PSE tanalised treated C16+, both are the same size but the C16+ is almost double the cost 

Thinking about it i may just go build a reverse apex to see how it would look compared to the other two!

The are which the shed will be going currently is only 6ft in depth (from grass to back wall) what i call the width is the longest part from the left wall to the right wall that just sticks out with a gate near it. that's like just over 12ft i cannot remember exact size right now, I'm going with 10-11ft so i can fit my bike down the side, the depth being only 6ft was due to the area it was being put on, though I'm now thinking closer to 7ft and adding in an extra row of slabs to put on the grass.


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## johna.clements (25 Sep 2022)

Sachakins said:


> Thanks for the picture, I see more clearly now.
> So for the OP,
> Ok, so width is restricted, I assume depth is governed by aesthetics, hence 6ft not 8 or 10?.
> 
> ...


Like the idea if the felt at the back to keep the water off in the gap. You can also get in with a batten to pull out any leaves. 
If the op wants a shed that has existing walls on three sides then it would be difficult to get to the back; but it is not clear to me what he actually wants.


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## Sachakins (25 Sep 2022)

Sorry for confusion, that's not my shed just a picture of what's known as a reverse apex, where apex line runs across the narrowest dimension.
Reason for reverse apex choice is with you being boxed in on three sides, gutter run off would be easier and are easy to access if the get blocked.

Personally, I think a pent roof always looks like a pigeon loft 
I wouldn't bother with C16 timber, that's just a standard for construction timber that is free from most knots, giving a more uniform load ability needed in house construction.

I used all tanalised timber,
standard CLS for all stud work and joists, rough sawn 6×1 for roof and flooring and 18mm t&g log lap profile gor external. Insulated and 18mm plywood lined and 12mm plywood overlay on floor.

Some use plywood or OSB for roof, it was too heavy for me to handle, hence 6x1.

The felted sides on the faces next to fence line are just belt and braces over the log lap, against rain and rot, as can't get at them now to add preservative every couple of years.

My previous shed rotted from the outside in, on the fence side, so had no chance to see damage until to late, hence the felted approach.


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## Sachakins (25 Sep 2022)

Could save all the stress and rot with this option from Keter, 9x7, at Argos


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

Sachakins said:


> Sorry for confusion, that's not my shed just a picture of what's known as a reverse apex, where apex line runs across the narrowest dimension.
> Reason for reverse apex choice is with you being boxed in on three sides, gutter run off would be easier and are easy to access if the get blocked.
> 
> Personally, I think a pent roof always looks like a pigeon loft
> ...


I've just noticed that i never thought about adding guttering! probs a good idea i guess as the back would be much less attacked by rain.

I thought when you said reverse apex you meant to do it opposite to what you had shown XD its okay though, I've now done 3 designs, pent, apex and reverse apex, it seems that apex will give me a slightly better "working" environment inside the shed so I just have to pick between the two types


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## TheUnicorn (25 Sep 2022)

there is also the option for a dutch barn roof


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/07/98/d70798b3a3c7bad2c99b54fe90082d80.jpg


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

TheUnicorn said:


> there is also the option for a dutch barn roof
> 
> 
> https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/07/98/d70798b3a3c7bad2c99b54fe90082d80.jpg


Hm, thats possible, would need to do it in reverse or work out some interesting designs to add the window to the long side! would save on shiplap though


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## Inspector (25 Sep 2022)

The Gambrel (Dutch) roof is not a good choice for a little shed because from about bench height on up the "walls" are sloping inwards. You can't hang toosl, cabinets or lean sheet stock against them easily. Great in a big barn to get a large clear open area to stack hay in but not so good in a small structure.

Pete


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## Jameshow (25 Sep 2022)

I would a pent with the guttering of the back wall resting on the existing wall this stopping rain getting down the back. 

You could use stud walling insulation and membrane without the cladding right up to the back and side walls. 

Get a uPVC patio door for the front door and the amount if cladding needed is minimal. 

Go for 8ft depth you'll thank us when built. If any asks say UK workshop told me too!


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## Ollie78 (25 Sep 2022)

I would do a flat roof with epdm roofing. You put a small 5 degree pitch on it, kerbs on 3 sides and a gutter drip on the back. This gives maximum internal height for the permitted development rules, is easy to build and doesn`t cost much more than felt.

Ollie


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## stormy121 (25 Sep 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I would a pent with the guttering of the back wall resting on the existing wall this stopping rain getting down the back.
> 
> You could use stud walling insulation and membrane without the cladding right up to the back and side walls.
> 
> ...


my old shed was 7.5ft so i know 8 would be nice XD but i dont want to loose to much of my garden ha! most of my projects are small, so handling sheet material isnt a major concern! Thankfully 

I have a uPVC Door but i also have a really nice 1930s dougles fir solid door which looks just beautiful  plus the uPVC door is massive and would actually increase the cost of the shiplap!




Ollie78 said:


> I would do a flat roof with epdm roofing. You put a small 5 degree pitch on it, kerbs on 3 sides and a gutter drip on the back. This gives maximum internal height for the permitted development rules, is easy to build and doesn`t cost much more than felt.
> 
> Ollie



I have to disagree, i can get 20m of felt for £30 vs a epdm at around £100  am i looking in the wrong place?


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## artie (25 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> The Gambrel (Dutch) roof is not a good choice for a little shed because from about bench height on up the "walls" are sloping inwards. You can't hang toosl, cabinets or lean sheet stock against them easily. Great in a big barn to get a large clear open area to stack hay in but not so good in a small structure.
> 
> Pete


Would it be possible to make the walls straight up to shoulder height?

That's what's on my to do list.


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## TheUnicorn (25 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> i can get 20m of felt for £30 vs a epdm at around £100  am i looking in the wrong place?


I put up a shed last year and put on cheap felt (not my choice), It was horrible to work with, thin, brittle, I could see cracks and tears forming from day one. I doubt it will last more than three years, and I'd bet that when it does get replaced, the roof will need to replaced too... and then the top of the walls will be showing signs of rot... Just a false economy. Keep water out at all costs


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## artie (25 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> I have to disagree, i can get 20m of felt for £30 vs a epdm at around £100  am i looking in the wrong place?


There's good quality felt available in 21m rolls for around £75 it says Blizzard on the wrapper.

I've used it and it lasts very well.


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## Inspector (25 Sep 2022)

artie said:


> Would it be possible to make the walls straight up to shoulder height?
> 
> That's what's on my to do list.


If you put the Gambrel on top of the shoulder height walls won't that put you above the 2.5m total height maximum height you guys usually have to follow?

Pete


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## J-G (26 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> If you put the Gambrel on top of the shoulder height walls won't that put you above the 2.5m total height maximum height you guys usually have to follow?
> 
> Pete


The 'height' is to the eaves - though there may well be another restiction as to ridge height - it will depend upon the specific council/area.


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## Sachakins (26 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> my old shed was 7.5ft so i know 8 would be nice XD but i dont want to loose to much of my garden ha! most of my projects are small, so handling sheet material isnt a major concern! Thankfully
> 
> I have a uPVC Door but i also have a really nice 1930s dougles fir solid door which looks just beautiful  plus the uPVC door is massive and would actually increase the cost of the shiplap!
> 
> ...


That felt sounds like the thin cheap stuff, not worth the effort, short life span, cracks and tears easily.
Go for reinforced Polyester Mineral Felt, much dearer and a lot heavier, but lasts many years longer.
EDPM! Better as can get it a single sheet so no joins.
Need good warm weather for laying either one though. 
I USED the polyester felt, very heavy, stays flat, no problems fitting it.


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## Scruples (26 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> So I'm in the final design stage of my new shed build and wanted to get some advice for the pros and cons of each.
> 
> I am only 5ft 4" so height isn't a major factor...much! I intend on using felt on the roof with insulation later on.
> 
> ...


I built my shed on the footprint of my old garage (18 feet x 8 feet) I designed an apex roof but used bigger roof timbers to support a lot of spare wood. I had my chippie mate make up the roof trusses from 4 x 3, 2 foot spacing and pitched at 45°. It was worth it. Insulated the floor, roof and walls with 1 inch foiled insulation board. My one regret was using foil as it screens the inside from Wifi signals.


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## Ollie78 (26 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> I have to disagree, i can get 20m of felt for £30 vs a epdm at around £100  am i looking in the wrong place?



Epdm will last 20 odd years felt will last 5 and you will be doing it again. 
Also I like the fact the Epdm has no overlaps or nail holes. It's just one piece. 

Ollie


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## artie (26 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> If you put the Gambrel on top of the shoulder height walls won't that put you above the 2.5m total height maximum height you guys usually have to follow?
> 
> Pete


Possibly, but I live out in the sticks and tend to forget about such things.


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## stormy121 (26 Sep 2022)

Sachakins said:


> That felt sounds like the thin cheap stuff, not worth the effort, short life span, cracks and tears easily.
> Go for reinforced Polyester Mineral Felt, much dearer and a lot heavier, but lasts many years longer.
> EDPM! Better as can get it a single sheet so no joins.
> Need good warm weather for laying either one though.
> I USED the polyester felt, very heavy, stays flat, no problems fitting it.


Depends if green mineral 40kg felt is a cheap option? ive no idea! im happy to replace in 5 years, maybe EDPM will become more viable then XD



Scruples said:


> I built my shed on the footprint of my old garage (18 feet x 8 feet) I designed an apex roof but used bigger roof timbers to support a lot of spare wood. I had my chippie mate make up the roof trusses from 4 x 3, 2 foot spacing and pitched at 45°. It was worth it. Insulated the floor, roof and walls with 1 inch foiled insulation board. My one regret was using foil as it screens the inside from Wifi signals.


How did you find the foil stuff? i have thought about that as an option for my shed, full insulation wouldn't be worth it due to it being a hobby not a job  also im assuming you used the same for roof and floor?


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## Yorkieguy (26 Sep 2022)

I bought a pent-roofed garden shed when we move into a newly built house in 1991. No time to construct a shed back then. It was roofed with mineral felt and underfelt. By 2000, the roof was leaking as the felt had degraded over the years due to snow and ice in winter, so I re-felted it. At the same time, I built a workshop in 2000 and decided to use an apex roof, which I 'tiled' with felt shingles, (from Wickes) and flash-band along the ridge. 21 year on, it's still as good as new, and the storage space in the rafters for lengths of timber etc has been really useful.

In 2013, the felt on the pent-roofed garden shed began to leak once more, so rather than re-felt it yet again, I decided to convert it to an apex roof, making trusses from B&Q 'CLS' timber, which you can self-select to ensure it's not bowed and is fairly knot free. As with the workshop, I used felt shingles (from Wickes) to clad the roof. Again, the space in the rafters has proved very useful and the roof is vey sound. Some pics attached. Hope that's of interest.

Pic 1: The apex roofed workshop, and pent roofed shed as it was, prior to conversion to an apex roof..
Pic 2: The apex roof trusses and ridge I prefabricated in my garage.
Pic 3: Pent roof removed and apex roof trusses fitted.
Pic 4: Inside view before trusses were clad with T&G boards, part salvaged from the pent roof.
Pic 5: The roof clad with T&G boards.
Pic 6: The finished roof.
Pic 7: Taken today - the workshop is 21 years old, and the apex roof on the garden shed will be ten years old in Feb next year.
Pic 8: I've included that to show the moisture content of B&Q CLS kiln-dried timber in Feb 2013. Just 11%. Excellent stuff. ('CLS means 'Canadian Lumber Stock' but my guess is that it's more likely sourced closer to home. From Kielder maybe?).


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## Yorkieguy (26 Sep 2022)

Ooops, here's the pic of the CLS timber moisture content.


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## stormy121 (26 Sep 2022)

Yorkieguy said:


> I bought a pent-roofed garden shed when we move into a newly built house in 1991. No time to construct a shed back then. It was roofed with mineral felt and underfelt. By 2000, the roof was leaking as the felt had degraded over the years due to snow and ice in winter, so I re-felted it. At the same time, I built a workshop in 2000 and decided to use an apex roof, which I 'tiled' with felt shingles, (from Wickes) and flash-band along the ridge. 21 year on, it's still as good as new, and the storage space in the rafters for lengths of timber etc has been really useful.
> 
> In 2013, the felt on the pent-roofed garden shed began to leak once more, so rather than re-felt it yet again, I decided to convert it to an apex roof, making trusses from B&Q 'CLS' timber, which you can self-select to ensure it's not bowed and is fairly knot free. As with the workshop, I used felt shingles (from Wickes) to clad the roof. Again, the space in the rafters has proved very useful and the roof is vey sound. Some pics attached. Hope that's of interest.
> 
> ...


Okay so i have to ask, how have you got away with using untreated wood? i was under the impression it wouldn't last outside? i considered using it but wondered how i would treat it to the same standard as bought wood that is already pressure treated? btw your sheds look amazing, great inspiration for mine


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## Inspector (26 Sep 2022)

If untreated wood is kept dry it will last forever. Good roof, gutters, siding, on a foundation above ground, etc. Unless you have wood munching insects that go after it. How did sheds, houses and barns get built before treated wood?

Pete


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## stormy121 (26 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> If untreated wood is kept dry it will last forever. Good roof, gutters, siding, on a foundation above ground, etc. Unless you have wood munching insects that go after it. How did sheds, houses and barns get built before treated wood?
> 
> Pete


That is a fair point, chances are it will get a bit wet, especially as it will only have a breather membrane to project it haha i did think about just going for some cheap CLS from the likes of Wickes etc but maybe i might just play it safe and go treated


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## Inspector (26 Sep 2022)

If it is any consolation to you a guy down the road put up two sheds and after 6 years there has never been any siding on it. The OSB is a little weathered (grey) and swollen a little. That said we only get about 10" of precipitation a year. Your rot may vary.  Maybe the new owners will clad it. 

Pete


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## SaintD56 (27 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> So I'm in the final design stage of my new shed build and wanted to get some advice for the pros and cons of each.
> 
> I am only 5ft 4" so height isn't a major factor...much! I intend on using felt on the roof with insulation later on.
> 
> ...


If you are planning to use the shed for both storage and a workshop, I would be thinking large as possibly, because soon as soon as you start putting things in there you will be looking for room for both storage your shop.
Your choice, Have A Great Day.


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## Yorkieguy (28 Sep 2022)

stormy121 said:


> Okay so i have to ask, how have you got away with using untreated wood? i was under the impression it wouldn't last outside? i considered using it but wondered how i would treat it to the same standard as bought wood that is already pressure treated? btw your sheds look amazing, great inspiration for mine


The wood isn't 'outside' it's inside. 

The framework, roof trusses, floor and floor joists are all internal. The T&G roof is clad with underfelt and thick felt 'shingles'. The shed and the workshop walls are clad with shiplap timber, which I just treat with Cuprinol 'Ducksback '5-yr' shed and fence treatment annually. I can't think why I would want to use any pressure treated timber - its not like say wooden fence posts for example,

The garden shed is now 31-years old, and the workshop is 21-years old. Both are still in excellent condition with no sign of deterioration. I lined the workshop walls internally with tarred paper, fiibreglass insulation and 6mm MDF sheet. I didn't insulate the roof of the workshop as 'Kingspan' was too expensive. I double glazed the windows as the units from a local glazier were only a little more expensive than two sheets of glass. I laid foundations for both the shed and the workshop and built a brick base with two courses about ground level, with air bricks. I made brick 'piers' to support the floor to prevent 'springing'. The floor in the shed is T&G - in the workshop it's flooring grade chipboard of 10cm x 5cm joists at 40cam intervals.

Really, the key point I wanted to get across is that where pent roofs are clad with mineral felt - however good the quality - expect to have to replace the felt every ten years or so. With an apex roof, the roof drains better, dries quicker after rain, and felt shingles are not only far more durable than felt, they look nicer (in my opinion). I used Wickes shingles, but there are other makes and suppliers. This link has lots of information about them, such as the minimum angle 15 degrees with no underfelt, or 8 degrees with underfelt. (I think the pitch if mine is 40 degrees or so, but I fitted underfelt anyway):

ARS Square Butt Roof Felt Shingles 3 Square Metre Pack Grey / Green / Brown / Black / Red

I hope that's of interest.


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## ey_tony (28 Sep 2022)

Here's my shed. I needed both a potting shed and storage shed for garden equipment etc but because of lack of space in the garden, I ended up building a dual purpose shed. The front half being a potting shed in which I actually grow tomatoes as well as seedlings etc and the rear half where I keep garden tools, mower, barbeque, bicycles and everything else we can get in there.
I preferred the look of a pitched roof as opposed to a pent roof and I made use of the height of the central partition for hanging more than one layer of garden tools etc.
I have guttering to the rear of the shed and the run off water from the from the front half falls onto sealed pavers which takes the water onto the lawn and hedge.

I'm also getting a bit long in the tooth these days to have to climb up and renew roofing felt every few years or after a gale so I chose shingles and not only are they secure, they look far better too.
The potting shed side of my shed faces due South so it gets really hot in summer but the shingles handle it really well. It's been built over five years now and not a sign of an issue. If that was felt I wouldn't give it five years.


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