# "Money for Nothing" BBC1



## Eric The Viking (19 Nov 2017)

Just happened across this. Perhaps it should be retitled "Nothing for (lots of) Money"?

It's depressing how clumsy some of these "artisans" seem to be, and how nasty the output seems.

Or did I just fall out of bed the wrong side this morning?

Discuss...

E.

PS: I'm totally in favour of recycling and re-purposing old stuff, but this wasn't it (IMHO).
PPS: Liked the Danish (G-plan) table/drinks trolley they showed, but even that wasn't wonderful.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Nov 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnvgKhWZdI 

They always seem to find a market.


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## kevinlightfoot (19 Nov 2017)

But these are "Master Craftsmen"!!!!


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## MrTeroo (19 Nov 2017)

Your TVs remote should have some buttons that allow you to choose another channel more to your liking.
It should be in the user manual.

Or you could go back to bed


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## whatknot (19 Nov 2017)

I have watched a couple of these, more in sheer surprise that anyone would buy such garbage 

Its obviously cheap TV to fill some time, much as a lot of stuff on TV these days 

I watched one where she got an old sideboard, which the "craftsman" dissected and added some mdf panels, frankly the original was only good for a garage storage unit in the first place and the result was worse and fit for the tip, I forget what they supposedly sold it for but I think the craftsman was paid about £500

Another was a pair of wrought iron gates turned into a bed (?)

Beyond silly and beyond belief that any of it is genuine 




Eric The Viking":oihv02uq said:


> Just happened across this. Perhaps it should be retitled "Nothing for (lots of) Money"?
> 
> It's depressing how clumsy some of these "artisans" seem to be, and how nasty the output seems.
> 
> ...


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Nov 2017)

There was a programme some while ago featuring a guy in a "studio" in Sandbanks or somewhere where he had tied a bundle of driftwood together and put a lamp in the middle. A bloke came in said I like that, how much? £400, Fine, can you deliver it to my house? Yes.
His and hers Porsches gave away there might have been some money about, the living room was about 40' x 40', painted white.with nothing in it barring driftwood junk. I wouldn't have put it in my garden let alone my living room.


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## treeturner123 (20 Nov 2017)

Hi Guys

Sorry to disagree, but I have found the series a starting point for ideas of my own. I also think that it is great to try to encourage people to re-cycle items rather than throw it away.

Anyway, who are we to castigate buyers fro spending large sums of money on had crafted items?? Is it a bit of jealousy? 

Phil


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## whatknot (20 Nov 2017)

Sorry Phil but the items they do are quite ridiculous and I for one do not believe they actually do what they say 

I have only seen a couple of the episodes, so perhaps there are other more worthy projects they have done, but those I have seen are quite silly to say the least 

I am fully in favour of recycling or reusing items, in fact I feel stronger about the subject the older I get, I am of a generation where nothing was thrown out and everything was reused, even spent matches, boxes, bags, Christmas wrapping paper etc etc 

During the war years my parents had to reuse everything, it was the norm, rather than todays throw away society 

But taking two perfectly serviceable wrought iron gates, and chopping them up to make a bed ? a bed they paid someone £600 or so to make, then surprise surprise they couldn't sell it 

Just out of curiosity I skipped through another episode on iplayer, it had someone dumping old floorboards, she took them to someone and paid them £1100 !! to make them into a table 

I would say the majority of subscribers to this forum could have done as good a job for next to nothing 

And she "sold" it to a shop for £1300 , yes of course she did 

I am certainly not jealous of turning trash into worse trash 





treeturner123":3r3ffyxj said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Sorry to disagree, but I have found the series a starting point for ideas of my own. I also think that it is great to try to encourage people to re-cycle items rather than throw it away.
> 
> ...


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2017)

Yes, I've nothing against doing up junk and making "art" out of rubbish - but to pretend they then sell it quickly and easily for stupid money is stretching credulity more than a little.


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

whatknot":3gfd8fyg said:


> I have only seen a couple of the episodes, so perhaps there are other more worthy projects they have done, but those I have seen are quite silly to say the least



Anthony Devine is a very accomplished upholsterer. Norman Wilkinson, who made the table from the floorboards creates some great stuff. Kev Paxton, the Scottish blacksmith creates some beautiful items from scrap metal. Have a look at what he did with a washing machine.
The two boys in Sussex, Josh and Oli create some nice pieces eg the skateboards. 

I wouldn't give up your day job to become a reviewer if you are going to base your review on two episodes.



whatknot":3gfd8fyg said:


> I would say the majority of subscribers to this forum could have done as good a job for next to nothing



And your point is? The items are sent to businesses, not hobbyists.


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## thetyreman (20 Nov 2017)

often half of the stuff doesn't sell, it's also the kind of show that keeps the hypster/upcycle market going for just that bit longer, at the same time the 'master craftsman' who bodges old chairs together with screws and glue and turns it into an aweful looking bench... the only people who benefit from it are the 'artisans' if you can even call them that.

I'm not jealous in the slightest, I just genuinely hate the show, they don't understand the meaning of artisan or master craftsman at all...

There was one where the woman in it turned some useable old saws from the 1800s into 'saw art' it was very cingeworthy, she made a ridiculous profit selling it to a soho based hypster shop who then probably sold it to a banker or wealthy MP, try doing that in salford...


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Maybe this forum should be renamed

www.ukcurmudgeonshop.co.uk


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## rafezetter (20 Nov 2017)

I've been following this series for a while - I've probably watched at least 2 seasons of it, and while some of the projects do turn out well, a good portion of the rest don't sell as of when it's aired and that must be a reasonable amount of time later - I'd say at least a couple of months if not longer.

It seems like the only people making regular money out of it are the artisans being paid to convert the items - I know some of them are good at what they do normally, others like Oli & Josh have limited skillsets and a low attention to detail (like sanding marks); but again they are getting paid to do the work so they are still "winning".

I have to say though some of the prices the artisans charge for the work seems quite a lot, compared to items seen on Ebay and the like, some of which are easily equal in quality.

Bring back "The Salvager" !


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

treeturner123":192pqgch said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Sorry to disagree, but I have found the series a starting point for ideas of my own. I also think that it is great to try to encourage people to re-cycle items rather than throw it away.
> 
> ...



If you want to create stuff like that then good luck to you and if you like it then that's your choice, I hope you can sell it and maybe make enough money to buy similar junk for yourself 'cos that's exactly what it is imho - junk!

I am all in favour of recycling and upcyling and have plenty of really nice hardwood and general materials saved from the skip but the stuff produced on that show is rough to say the least and the show itself is typical of some of the rubbish being screened at the minute. It's up there with the "do up your house with cardboard and paper in half a day and next to no cost" programs, as a "woodworker" you should know better. :wink: 

Some of the guys on the program might be skilled but can't be blamed for laughing all the way to the bank with the TV money being thrown at them.

cheers
Bob


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

rafezetter":1o1ip35z said:


> I've been following this series for a while - I've probably watched at least 2 seasons of it, and while some of the projects do turn out well, a good portion of the rest don't sell as of when it's aired and that must be a reasonable amount of time later - I'd say at least a couple of months if not longer.
> 
> It seems like the only people making regular money out of it are the artisans being paid to convert the items - I know some of them are good at what they do normally, others like Oli & Josh have limited skillsets and a low attention to detail (like sanding marks); but again they are getting paid to do the work so they are still "winning".
> 
> ...



Limited skill set lol

http://forgecreative.co/furniture/

http://forgecreative.co/art/


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":339sbsk3 said:


> Your TVs remote should have some buttons that allow you to choose another channel more to your liking.
> It should be in the user manual.
> 
> Or you could go back to bed





> Maybe this forum should be renamed http://www.ukcurmudgeonshop.co.uk



Or maybe you should look at yourself and if the cap fits :wink: 
If you aren't happy with the forum there are plenty of others perhaps more suited to your demeanour


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Lons":2epgro2e said:


> Or maybe you should look at yourself and if the cap fits :wink:



Maybe you should check your grammar before you post  

Who made you thread prefect by the way?


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":2lwlcnve said:


> Lons":2lwlcnve said:
> 
> 
> > Or maybe you should look at yourself and if the cap fits :wink:
> ...


No-one but then who made you thread critic? 
Perhaps instead of telling a member to change channel or stay in bed you should have offered constructive comment.

Anyway I don't much care what you do fella, your choice after all. :lol:


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Lons":6gxy86g3 said:


> No-one but then who made you thread critic?



Thread critic? I think you need to google free speech



Lons":6gxy86g3 said:


> Perhaps instead of telling a member to change channel or stay in bed you should have offered constructive comment.



Maybe you need to google context as well?



Eric The Viking":6gxy86g3 said:


> Or did I just fall out of bed the wrong side this morning?
> 
> Discuss...
> 
> E.


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

Maybe you need to get a life or perhaps you already do if you're watching dross all day. :lol: 

Anyway, end of "discussion" as I really can't be bothered to argue with a ............. :lol: Have a good day fella, what's left of it!

BYE


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Lons":8e0ij18s said:


> Maybe you need to get a life or perhaps you already do if you're watching dross all day. :lol:
> 
> Anyway, end of "discussion" as I really can't be bothered to argue with a ............. :lol: Have a good day fella, what's left of it!
> 
> BYE



And yet you took the time to butt in and troll lol


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":1oklsjah said:


> And yet you took the time to butt in and troll lol


   (hammer)


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## Dangermouse 2nd (20 Nov 2017)

This thread , like the programme is i venture to say full of bull dung !


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## rafezetter (20 Nov 2017)

At the risk of setting you off again MrTeroo - regarding Oli & Josh, I've only gone by what I saw on the shows and either they have a limited skill set, or they have obviously rushed it or had some other reasons why they were working out of a garage with few tools in sight rather than a workshop capable of churing out the sort of items on that website.

Several times they have been doing work in an area that looks exactly like "Dad's Garage and a few tools" rather than the kitted out workshops of the other artisans*.

*a word I hate by the way when used in conjunction with the kind of people on the show - I would call Custards work "Artisan", but them... no.

PS I don't know what's got up your snout MrTeroo, but can you dial it back a bit on the forum please? You can /RANT offline in the privacy of your own home as much as you like, just like I do


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Well my first comment on this thread was tongue in cheek and written with humerous intention.

As the thread progressed the snooty and supercilious opinions of this programme 'got up my snout'

I view a lot of the opinions expressed on this thread as ranting, against the makers (for want of a better word) in the show.

So maybe those posters should dial it back a bit?

BTW, what model of TV do you have? Must be a good one to show sanding marks


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":cwymu6b5 said:


> Well my first comment on this thread was tongue in cheek and written with humerous intention.



Well for someone who lectured in a previous post about grammar it might be prudent to note that "humerous" is a bone :lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe you got confused by its' nickname the funny bone. #-o 
Which version of google do you use?


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Thanks  

I use the version that knows the difference between grammar and spelling 8)


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":1zo7i9nv said:


> Thanks
> 
> I use the version that knows the difference between grammar and spelling 8)



Ah thanks for that info. It's the misspelling version then. Explains a lot.


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Lons":1kti7vmz said:


> Anyway, end of "discussion" as I really can't be bothered to argue with a ............. :lol: Have a good day fella, what's left of it!
> 
> BYE



What happened?


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## Lons (20 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":8jwfn5jt said:


> Lons":8jwfn5jt said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway, end of "discussion" as I really can't be bothered to argue with a ............. :lol: Have a good day fella, what's left of it!
> ...


Got bored waiting for an ebay listing I'm bidding on to end. Anyway not arguing just being helpful. :wink:


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## MrTeroo (20 Nov 2017)

Fair enough.


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## rafezetter (21 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":37xttcfk said:


> Well my first comment on this thread was tongue in cheek and written with humerous intention.
> 
> As the thread progressed the snooty and supercilious opinions of this programme 'got up my snout'
> 
> ...



I agree sometime people get a bit hot - myself included, so I've learned to self edit or I'd be banned long ago.

Yes my TV IS a good one, plus I sit quite close as it's my PC monitor, and I've got keen eyes and the curiosity to pause when something catches my eye, not helped by them using gloss paint 

(it was a 3 drawer ercol style chest of drawers, handles changed and then painted a very dark blue / black.)

For the record I've been promoting this sort of thing for years - usually along with the timeworn derisive remarks of "expensive firewood", but when you see people being paid the kind of money they are charging and the work that comes out the other end on occasion, I don't think it's too harsh to critique.


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## Eric The Viking (21 Nov 2017)

I've seen Rafe's work, and I like it. 

It's not the principle, nor the style of the TV stuff I dislike _per se_, but the execution of the TV stuff, which was pretty poor. 

In the case of the floorboard table, there was a substantial piece of ply underneath to back the design, but they still didn't get the pieces suitably flat (unless they intended a glass top - wasn't mentioned). I was waiting for the planing/sanding part, to see how the wood came up, but it didn't happen! 

Given the types of paint used on old floorboards, a dining table top was the last thing I'd use them for! It's not on really to (unintentionally) poison your guests. And, assuming it was intended to be used as-is, you'd never keep it clean with all those splintery grooves in it. 

And deal on ply will move around, inevitably, (and come unstuck) so you either allow for movement, or do something else. I think this was basically an 8x4 whole sheet, but it might have been trimmed narrower. Their design gave them no options other than really strong glue (and crossed fingers). Overall it was a poor use of materials. The best bit was the table frame and legs, but they didn't show those being made!

The presenter "made" a table lamp out of bits of an old Russian enlarger-in-a-box, basically by clamping bits of it onto an old retort stand (with the original retort stand clamps, one of which had most of it snapped off). Her design depended on clamping (tightly) a Bakelite knob on the end of the focus adjusting rod*. She got an "electrician" to rewire it -- why? It's not hard nor dangerous to put mains cord on things, why do we suddenly see TV shows telling people they shouldn't? 

Not only was the finished thing not actually "made" at all, but it displayed a woeful ignorance of the materials involved. one tap to the lamp and the mounting would shatter, irretrievably. And if that in turn caused the lamp housing (also Bakelite) to drop, there would have been a shattered bulb and glass everywhere. So she actually made a dangerous thing she was evidently proud of! 

The chap refurbishing a Danish drinks trolley did OK, but was staggeringly ham-fisted dismantling it (never heard of a knocking block, evidently!), and the carefully highlighted new brass castors (period copies), were the plate type, and fitted with non-matching screws (three countersunk, one domed!), and the _wrong_ type (should have had central pins, as the originals did). This was a shame, as he put some effort into refurbishment otherwise (and repairing damage he'd done himself by clumsy dismantling).

That was what depressed me. Not the idea of recycling/upcycling or whatever. I do that myself and enjoy it, although Rafe is much more innovative than me!

E.

*the focusing rod/tube was originally for the lamp - those enlargers rely on a virtual image being formed of the lamp filament by the collimating lenses (it should be focused in the objective lens. IIRC), to get even illumination, so you had to adjust both the negative's focus and the lamp's too. I used to use a Wray enlarger that was similar. You used to be able to buy special enlarger bulbs, different in that the writing wasn't on the globe of the bulb, because of the risk of it appearing in the final print!


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## MrTeroo (21 Nov 2017)

rafezetter":2wqqud62 said:


> I agree sometime people get a bit hot - myself included, so I've learned to self edit or I'd be banned long ago.
> 
> Yes my TV IS a good one, plus I sit quite close as it's my PC monitor, and I've got keen eyes and the curiosity to pause when something catches my eye, not helped by them using gloss paint
> 
> ...



Yes I totally agree, it's not too harsh to critique, but phrases like:

"I have watched a couple of these, more in sheer surprise that anyone would buy such garbage "

"that's exactly what it is imho - junk!"

Are not critique. They are just grumpy old men firing one off.

I agree about the prices they charge though, way too much mostly. But every marketplace has different levels.

I remember when I first started my own business almost twenty years ago. I was wondering where to pitch my pricing and one day there was a fly on the wall documentary about American prostitutes - stay with me on this.  

They interviewed some street hookers charging $10 a turn. Then they interviewed a high class hooker charging $200 per hour.

The high class hooker was asked what made her different. Why was she worth $200 per hour when the street hooker only charged $10.

She admitted there was nothing better about herself but she had realised that if she charged $10 she got $10 customers.
When she charged $200 she got $200 customers.

Simplistic, I know, but there is a lot of truth in it.

There are people who _want_ to pay more.


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## Lons (21 Nov 2017)

I don't want to set this off again as I've mellowed a bit by tonight but the quote_ "that's exactly what it is imho - junk"_ was my post and I stand by that as I am entitled to my opinion as is everyone else on an open forum and by including "imho" I made it very clear that's exactly what it is, my opinion which you can agree with or not as you wish.

I admit to being a grumpy old man occasionally, doesn't make me wrong any more than it makes you right. It would be a strange world if we all agreed would it not? Perhaps it's better to agree to disagree as it matters not one jot. If you approve of the program you watch it, if not then like me you change channel. 

cheers 
Bob


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## MrTeroo (21 Nov 2017)

And yet you were happy to pipe up out of the blue last night and weigh in with your criticism of my earlier posts.

You're a hypocrite. imho of course.


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## SammyQ (22 Nov 2017)

Time out Boys. 

This is a mainly constructive forum, with free help provided to those in need. Yes, we can point out dangerous or long-winded/futile ways of doing things and head off the uninitiated from time-wasting, but...'flame wars' (remember them?) or 'dog's abuse' - as it should be called - is uncalled for.

There are varying levels of artistic interpretation; I personally cringe and writhe when Drew Pritchard waxes lyrical about "patina" - to me, in some cases, it's signs of neglect. Those who admire 'shabby chic' would (presumably) beg to disagree. That's their right - "even if you are wrong" (the only Maggie Thatcher quotation I like). 

To fall out and publish personal abuse here is counterproductive. To constructively disagree is to educate and enlighten. Toys back in the pram please. 

Sam, who both disagrees with Jacob from time to time, but also admires his work - and has not been afraid to say so here. 

P.S. There is a difference between shoddy workmanship and the con-trick of calling it "rustic" and 'marketing' it as 'wholesome development on a theme'. Just sayin'. S.


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## stuartpaul (22 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":18o9zag8 said:


> And yet you were happy to pipe up out of the blue last night and weigh in with your criticism of my earlier posts.
> 
> You're a hypocrite. imho of course.


That's just rude and completely unnecessary.


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## Lons (22 Nov 2017)

MrTeroo":39td3z7z said:


> You're a hypocrite. imho of course.



OK, as I said you're perfectly entitled to your opinion, makes no difference to me :lol:


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## MrTeroo (22 Nov 2017)

stuartpaul":12q18bjd said:


> MrTeroo":12q18bjd said:
> 
> 
> > And yet you were happy to pipe up out of the blue last night and weigh in with your criticism of my earlier posts.
> ...



You're wrong.


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## Eric The Viking (22 Nov 2017)

OK, I'm the silly person who started all this, unintentionally. 

I've said my bit above, but I found the programme uninspiring to the point of being rather shocking, and it wasn't the concept I object to but the poor execution and woolly thinking involved.

Sorry I mentioned it. 

Could we please stop the nastiness now?

E.


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## John15 (22 Nov 2017)

I think a plus for the programme is the rather gorgeous presenter. She can rejuvenate my odds and ends anytime.

John


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## MrTeroo (22 Nov 2017)

Eric The Viking":sfq52ntd said:


> OK, I'm the silly person who started all this, unintentionally.
> 
> I've said my bit above, but I found the programme uninspiring to the point of being rather shocking, and it wasn't the concept I object to but the poor execution and woolly thinking involved.
> 
> ...



Fine by me


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## SammyQ (23 Nov 2017)

Wot Eric said just above. Seconded. 

Sam


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## NazNomad (23 Nov 2017)

I watched (only) one episode where she grabbed a pile of hardwood logs and took them to ''Forest and Found'' who make a few chopping boards and spoons.

Some searching showed they set up the company after graduating with degrees in Fine Art.

I suppose they did have to pay off their student loans somehow, but it did seem rather a lot of money for a few spoons and chopping boards.


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## whatknot (23 Nov 2017)

Money for nothing is a BBC program, as I am paying their wages I think I have every right to give my opinion on it 

Not I might add that I need to be a licence payer to have an opinion it, or anything else for that matter

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, mine is its a ridiculous waste of money and stand by what I said earlier, although I have now watched a couple more episodes

My opinion hasn't changed, its still rubbish 

I have no problem with some trendys making a huge amount of money out of these "projects" *if* I weren't paying for it 

For John15, I think you need a trip to specsavers mate ;-)


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