# Buying PAR Timber



## billw (15 Jul 2020)

OK I have a fear this is a dumb question, but I'd like to make a desk and I have no room for a lot of machinery, and not enough talent to saw and plane the wood to be anything like straight enough.

I was mulling over just buying in a load of PAR boards to the correct specification, leaving me just to do things like joints, sanding, etc.

Question (dumb) is..... will buying PAR to the correct spec be pointless because it'll warp if I leave it somewhere with a different humidity? Or will the supplier have dried it sufficiently already?


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Jul 2020)

Don't presume anything. It might be straight, square and all the same size but there's a better chance it won't be.


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## marcros (15 Jul 2020)

I have just finished reading Chris schwarz' "Anarchists design book". It would be worth a Google for the staked desk (to see if you like the design", and a read of the book because it seems very manageable and uses minimal tools.


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## sammy.se (15 Jul 2020)

I have done this in the past, and there is no guarantee it won't warp, but what you can do is
A/ talk to your timber suppliers to explain what you are doing, so they can provide you with suitable stock (note, most timber suppliers are not that helpful unfortunately, but some are gems)

B/ buy more stock than you need, so you can replace any boards that do move. 

C/ Leave it for a few weeks to acclimatise in your home before building 

It's not pointless, and is very possible to do what you are saying.


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## billw (15 Jul 2020)

marcros":lomf28d1 said:


> I have just finished reading Chris schwarz' "Anarchists design book". It would be worth a Google for the staked desk (to see if you like the design", and a read of the book because it seems very manageable and uses minimal tools.



I already have the design, cutting list and full instructions drawn up, and having just had a look at it the longest individual piece of timber I need is 780mm for the frame (the legs are 780x32x32), and 1500mm for the top.

Most pieces are 10mm thick and a handful are 20mm, but there's nothing huge that I guess does at least reduce the potential for stuff to warp beyond use before I can work on it and get it glued up and sealed.


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## MikeG. (15 Jul 2020)

I used just PAR for probably the first 5 years or so that I worked with wood. It's a great way to learn........but one of the things you quickly learn is that PAR timber can still be all over the place (cupped, in wind, bowed etc), and that two pieces purporting to be the same aren't actually the same. It is critical to select your own timber, and not just order it sight-unseen. And buy 20% more than you think that you need, at least. And there is generally nothing about PAR that stops it moving after you've finished your piece, so take all the precautions as described by Sammy, use proper joints to hold it all together, and make all allowances for cross-grain shrinkage (such as floating panels, breadboard ends, buttons, elongated screw holes, and so on).


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## MikeG. (15 Jul 2020)

billw":1ud093pa said:


> ........Most pieces are 10mm thick and a handful are 20mm, but there's nothing huge that I guess does at least reduce the potential for stuff to warp.......



On the contrary, I'm afraid. It's the thinner stuff that is most likely to move.


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## billw (15 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":t1y7bqdu said:


> billw":t1y7bqdu said:
> 
> 
> > ........Most pieces are 10mm thick and a handful are 20mm, but there's nothing huge that I guess does at least reduce the potential for stuff to warp.......
> ...



I realised that after I wrote it. Can tell it's been about 7 years since I was last in a workshop #-o


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## RogerS (15 Jul 2020)

Just a thought but any woodwork companies near you? Or a member? Who would prep some decent wood for you rather than run the risk of buying Travis Perkins' best bananas ?

Or you could buy some good stuff from British Hardwoods who will prep stuff before sending it to you (obviously for a price).

I'm a great believer in getting people with the right machinery, room and extra pairs of hands to do some of my work for me. For example, I wanted some cills making out of sapele for my orangerie. Approx 8m x 4m. I could have (just about) done them in my workshop in max. lengths of 3.5m. But my local joinery company could do them over 4m long lengths and all for the machining cost of £65. My builder collected them for me. That to me was a no-brainer as even the joinery company admitted that managing stuff that long turned out to be a bit of a pain.

I also need some large mouldings made for the orangerie. Same lengths. If I did it, I'd have to have some cutters made and by a large block to take them. I costed it up compared to buying in from WRP Mouldings (whose samples that I got were excellent) and let them use their 6-head moulder :mrgreen: . The price saving was about £120 and then a bit more if I sold on the block. Not worth it.


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## billw (15 Jul 2020)

RogerS":3axjxsgn said:


> Just a thought but any woodwork companies near you? Or a member? Who would prep some decent wood for you rather than run the risk of buying Travis Perkins' best bananas ?
> 
> Or you could buy some good stuff from British Hardwoods who will prep stuff before sending it to you (obviously for a price).



The plan is to do it in relatively expensive stuff so I would definitely be buying from a reputable supplier and not B&Q :lol: 

As for woodwork companies, I've been trying to find some benchspace but those sort of facilities seem to be few and far between these days (especially in Birmingham) but I hadn't thought about trying to find a company who had the right machinery.

ps everyone - thanks for ALL the replies!


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## AndyT (15 Jul 2020)

To offer one more example, I've made three "decent" pieces of furniture using wood ordered planed to size. Two bookcases and a wardrobe. All using ash, supplied by Robbins of Bristol. 
They are a big, experienced timber merchant. A lot of their business is in specialist material for boat building, but they also make a point of supplying relatively small orders for amateurs.
In every case, the wood they supplied was straight, flat, square and immediately usable without lots of corrective effort by me. I could just get on with construction. 
It probably wasn't the cheapest source but it made sense to me at the times I did it.


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## Bm101 (15 Jul 2020)

Bill. It's bewildering. You are not alone and in the right place. There are some very helpful types on here. Unlike me lots of them know what they are talking about. I still don't have cubic measurement right.
This section of the the site isn't in plain view unless you know it's there but have a look at a couple of threads on here.reference-information-stickys-t112422.html

You might especially find this admirable thread useful to find a_ decent _supplier near you. Hats off to Newbie Neil for taking the time as always.
timber-yards-wip-add-your-favourites-t108370.html
General forum advice is to prepare your own stock because it costs less. You buy seen timber then process. That all makes perfect sense if you have the experience and knowhow/tools to process timber. 
On a trusted recommendation I started buying par for house projects/diy at a place I'd drove past a thousand times on the A1. Stuff like frames for cupboards etc. The difference in quality even from my last supplier a builders yard/Travis Perkins type not a BnQ shed was night and day. Nice guy, go there, explain your situation. They will take the business. Small fry to them but if you can find a supplier of good quality soft/hard woods then you can save yourself time and money. Take the time to find a good patient supplier. Dont go at opening time, go when they will have time to answer your questions. I can rip timber down nowadays with a bandsaw and process it with routers and jigs and stuff. But don't be put off from buying processed timber if it gets you into/back into doing summat. 
Good PAR is pricey but if it gets you started and working then crack on!


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## TheTiddles (19 Jul 2020)

We all started that way!

Have a go, ask for advice, see how it ends up.

If you’re anything like the rest of us you’ll be really happy with the result, then a year or two later once you have more kit and experience you will look at it a bit differently and the next version will be 10-times better

Aidan


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## Andy Kev. (21 Jul 2020)

Phil Pascoe":kpr3alx5 said:


> Don't presume anything. It might be straight, square and all the same size but there's a better chance it won't be.


So in the latter eventuality it would be below PAR timber, then?


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