# Turning Chisel advice please



## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

Hi all,
I am *very *new to woodturning, :roll: i have bought a SIP 01360 36 lathe and i initially bought some cheap clark chisels to get me started, i have now bought a set of Faithfull WCTSET8B HSS woodturning chisels, but they are much thicker than the clark, which is good, but i find that i cannot use them very effectivley on turning beads etc as the are too thick to get right in and down, I have not sharpened them yet as I am going to get a grinder and stone very soon,
I read somewhere that you should grind a gouge to the shape of a lady's fingernail, is this right and would it solve my problem ?

hopefully my question made some sense many thanks Rob


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## chrisbaker42 (19 Mar 2011)

Although it is not the easiest to use, the skew will get into most of those awkward little places


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

chrisbaker42":37h0dnqy said:


> Although it is not the easiest to use, the skew will get into most of those awkward little places


 yes thanks , but i find that skew sometimes wants to move up or down the workpiece by its self, im not sure why its doing that... :roll: maybe it is not sharp enough ?
also, with respect, it dosent answer my question, i dont want my new expensive gouges to be limited in use.


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## myturn (19 Mar 2011)

Hi Rob

You probably don't want to hear this but the Faithfull set does not seem to be an ideal starter set.

According to the spec I've seen it has no spindle or bowl gouge and has 3 roughing gouges, although looking at the picture what they call the 8mm roughing gouge looks more like a spindle gouge to me.

The diamond point "scraper" and parting tool can be used to roll beads, as can the skew but the latter can bite until you have had plenty of practice with it. What you describe as the skew moving up and down on its own is typical of it not being used properly and you catch a point which ends up in a nice spiral over your wood!

A fingernail profile is favoured by many for both spindle and bowl gouges but it's all a matter of personal preference and depends what you turn and how you use the tools. 
I would say that for a beginner the fingernail profile is better as it is more forgiving and less prone to catches.

Have a look on youtube for Bob Hamilton's (bobham5) excellent videos on using the various tools. Search within his uploads for skew for a series of skew practice demos, well worth watching.

Best of luck


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## Deejay (19 Mar 2011)

Hello Rob and welcome to the forum.

I can recommend a good book, regarded by many as the 'bible'.

'Woodturning a Foundation Course' by Keith Rowley.

Cheers

Dave


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

myturn":2t52ftgs said:


> Hi Rob
> 
> You probably don't want to hear this but the Faithfull set does not seem to be an ideal starter set.
> 
> ...



thanks yes the 8mm is a spindle gouge, to be honest i am not very happy with the faithfull chisels, they arrived with 1 not straight in the handle and another with varnish all over the brass ferrule and the "faithfull" lettering not printed properly, but rather than return to amazon, i phoned faithfull and a chap named malcom said he was sorry and that he had never had a complaint about the chisels before and the would send out 2 new chisels, that was 2 days ago, but they are not here yet.. 
i cannot return them as i have used them now, so i guesss i will have to just buy extra gouges if need be..  

on the plus side i dont seem to get the horrendous catches i was getting with the clark set, almost broke my wrist :evil: 

i am also looking into getting or building a sharpening jig, this might be daft but could i not "utilise" this http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-DRIL...8US0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1300553323&sr=1-2 drill sharpener for sharpening gouges ?
it looks simiar in nature to a woodturning sharpanar jig, it has an angle set and a foot to rotate , and maybe even a slot for the chisel to fit.. just a thought..


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

Deejay":14a7r9sr said:


> Hello Rob and welcome to the forum.
> 
> I can recommend a good book, regarded by many as the 'bible'.
> 
> ...



thanks , il look into it.


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## myturn (19 Mar 2011)

Rob,

That drill sharpening guide won't do for turning chisels.

There are plenty to choose from if you do a search and a lot of people will tell you you don't need one and can do it all by hand. I would advise a beginner getting at least a jig for bowl & spindle gouges, the others can be done without a jig with a bit of care. If you don't want to buy a jig you can make your own and again there are plenty of DIY guides on doing this.

When you buy a grinder make sure it has stones suitable for sharpening HSS tools, not the standard grey stones, and you will need a platform that is adjustable for angle.

The Creusen HP7500TS is one of the best grinders you can get (in my view) and it is expensive but if you can afford it you won't buying it. 

Have a look at the PETER CHILD site where you will find a lot of useful practical information.


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

myturn":az77nxip said:


> Rob,
> 
> That drill sharpening guide won't do for turning chisels.
> 
> ...



thanks, I know that the drill sharpener is not for woodturning chisels, it was just a thought.
i would not pay the £230 plus for the Creusen HP7500TS, i am going for the £50 Record Power RPBG6 6 " grinder, (also featured on the peter child website) it has along with the standard grey stone it has a 40 mm wide whitestone , aluminium oxide i think, which will do for a start, i will later buy a Microcrystalline stone for the gouges etc,

i dont belive in paying silly money for tools, but not too cheap either, a happy balance , i believe, is needed :mrgreen: 
plus i have just bought a new shed,£ 560, a lathe £300, and many tools £ 400, my other half would go mental if i spent a further £230 on a grinder when i can get one for £50 :lol: but yes, im sure the Creusen is worth every penny mate.

I have been looking at the DIY jigs etc, and they seem pretty good, but i cant quite figure out the angles, so i might build one with a thumbscrew for and adjustable angle, but knowing me, (hammer) i will probably give up and just buy one, but im not paying over £70. given what they are, i think thats more than enough..

i have tried to add a photo of what i have done so far.. such as it is , but it just says "The image file you tried to attach is invalid"
strange as its a standard jpeg, and i can find no info on this site about image size :?:


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## myturn (19 Mar 2011)

I think you need to have a certain number of posts before you can upload images here.

You can probably post a url to it though, if you have a website or photobucket etc.


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

myturn":1t2b0phr said:


> I think you need to have a certain number of posts before you can upload images here.
> 
> You can probably post a url to it though, if you have a website or photobucket etc.


 thanks, thats seems rather silly.. :roll:


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## gus3049 (19 Mar 2011)

rob12770":2ztc7s3j said:


> myturn":2ztc7s3j said:
> 
> 
> > I think you need to have a certain number of posts before you can upload images here.
> ...


No, not really. Once you have been on the forum a while you will see that some nice folk try and load images and links to rather unsavoury places. They just register and try and spam us. As I understand it not allowing pics for the three or four posts, puts off the spammers.


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## CHJ (19 Mar 2011)

rob12770, If you give an indication of your location in your profile there may be a member close at hand who can give you a quick run-down on tool shape and reasons for them.

1. For starters you do not know how to sharpen turning tools, this is a fundamental pre-requisite to learn before attempting to turn, if you do not understand the importance of the tool bevel on safety and how to achieve it then accidents are bound to happen. My advice; as previously mentioned above is to get Keith Rowleys Book where he discusses the basics in Chapters 3 & 4. (easily visable fingernail profile only really applys to a solid shallow flute spindle gouge)

2. Regardless of what make and form of tools you have you are not going to be able to turn anything in a satisfactory manner unless they are sharpened before use, and on a lot of woods several times during a project. 
3. There is some discussion re tool types preferred by members as a basic set and other useful information in the Sticky at the top of this forum.

4. Basic support jig details are given in the Rowley book and several members have web site links to easily constructed jigs to aid with bowl gouges and fingernail grinding. a simple example here on my site. and several guides to preferred angles and means of measuring them are around if required.

5. The links posting by new members is restricted for several posts to avoid spammers flooding the forum with unwanted garbage.

6. Image size in Pixels is not restricted but image file size is restricted to 256Kb to conserve server space, if you attempted to attach a valid format image file above that size you will have received a warning regarding file size.

(A polite query regarding how to use the forum if you are having difficulty would be appreciated rather than making judgments.)


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## rob12770 (19 Mar 2011)

ok ta, i do know how to sharpen tools, i just dont have a grinder yet, at least, i have a fair idea..all in good time, to suggest that one should know how to sharpen before he starts to turn, i would guess, almost never happens, after all, we all got to start somewhere ..
i am sure that book is great and all, but i would have thought that the fact that forums like this and all the youtube videos etc exist, would mean that you one would not have to buy books etc.. hmm

also, the Bits & Pieces site, great stuff Chas (hammer)


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## chrisbaker42 (20 Mar 2011)

It is often said that leading a horse to water is the easy bit!


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## rob12770 (20 Mar 2011)

chrisbaker42":2alqr0vx said:


> It is often said that leading a horse to water is the easy bit!



hmm, ok, il buy the book :wink:


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## gus3049 (20 Mar 2011)

rob12770":15e7bfvv said:


> chrisbaker42":15e7bfvv said:
> 
> 
> > It is often said that leading a horse to water is the easy bit!
> ...


Ah good, so you have had 'enlightenment'

I have had to edit my posts on several occasions having thought better of the first!


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## rob12770 (20 Mar 2011)

gus3049":2yyfky1a said:


> rob12770":2yyfky1a said:
> 
> 
> > chrisbaker42":2yyfky1a said:
> ...



so ? we ALL have, no need to make an issue of it...


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## gus3049 (20 Mar 2011)

Just passing the time of day. :lol: 

Welcome to the forum.


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## Silverbirch (20 Mar 2011)

Hi Rob,

[*ok ta, i do know how to sharpen tools, i just dont have a grinder yet, at least, i have a fair idea..all in good time, to suggest that one should know how to sharpen before he starts to turn, i would guess, almost never happens, ]

I think the point is, learning to sharpen is part and parcel of learning to turn. You won`t be able to safely and efficiently be produce anything on the lathe without having the means to do it and a little bit of sharpening practice under your belt. Your turning will improve along with your sharpening and vice versa.

Ian


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## rob12770 (20 Mar 2011)

Silverbirch":3qi3jhw0 said:


> Hi Rob,
> 
> [*ok ta, i do know how to sharpen tools, i just dont have a grinder yet, at least, i have a fair idea..all in good time, to suggest that one should know how to sharpen before he starts to turn, i would guess, almost never happens, ]
> 
> ...


 absolutely Ian, but one step at a time.. i had to buy a lathe and chisels first, just waiting on grinder now 8)


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## rob12770 (15 May 2011)

ok guys so i got the grinder and have sharpened some chisels, ok, but the faithfull set of chisels as pointed out earlier have no spindle gouge in the set .. as a beginner i find it really hard to work with what i have, even the cheapo clark set were easier when sharp as they were thinner, i think i need to buy some spindle gouges, im thinking robert sorby 3/8 and 1/2 inch is this the correct choice as these faithfull chisels dont have all i need :? 
thanks guys Rob


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## CHJ (15 May 2011)

Have you read the discussion on basic tool list in the *Help Sticky* ?


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## rob12770 (15 May 2011)

CHJ":1ftbpwu3 said:


> Have you read the discussion on basic tool list in the *Help Sticky* ?


got that thanks, it says 3/8” Spindle Gouge and 3/8” Bowl Gouge (standard grind)
so il get those, many thanks 8)
like most people i dont ussually read the stickys on forums, daft really :mrgreen:


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## rob12770 (15 May 2011)

by the way on sharpenning one of my gouges, i burnt it, is it knakered ?
cheers


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## nev (15 May 2011)

hi rob, welcome.
regarding the Keith Rowley book, whilst i would recommend buying a copy (or suggesting an early crimbo pressie?), as it covers not only the basics of tool control and sharpening (hammer) , but also has instructions on how to make your own simple sharpening jig,( which is what i use,- til i win the lotto anyhow), a certain on-line store (and large south american river) enables you to 'look inside' the book, so you may be able to pick up some useful info without parting with your hard earned.
...but i think once you have a read through it, you'll probably end up buying a copy anyway  
cheers


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## jumps (15 May 2011)

rob12770":d57wyqvt said:


> by the way on sharpenning one of my gouges, i burnt it, is it knakered ?
> cheers



in this guide Tormek suggest that the overheated edge will significantly struggle to hold it's edge

http://www.tormek.com/en/accessories/bg ... 100_en.pdf

the good news is that you will eventually grind through it - obviously with great care.


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## rob12770 (15 May 2011)

jumps":2e2yfl4u said:


> rob12770":2e2yfl4u said:
> 
> 
> > by the way on sharpenning one of my gouges, i burnt it, is it knakered ?
> ...



acctually, having no spindle gouges to speak of, i tried to grind a roughing gouge into a fingernail shape (daft i know)
so then it to it to the grinder again and ground it flat, then i re-ground the original roughing gouge shape..but it is a tad burnt..still seems to work though.


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## rob12770 (15 May 2011)

nev":2lucdez9 said:


> hi rob, welcome.
> regarding the Keith Rowley book, whilst i would recommend buying a copy (or suggesting an early crimbo pressie?), as it covers not only the basics of tool control and sharpening (hammer) , but also has instructions on how to make your own simple sharpening jig,( which is what i use,- til i win the lotto anyhow), a certain on-line store (and large south american river) enables you to 'look inside' the book, so you may be able to pick up some useful info without parting with your hard earned.
> ...but i think once you have a read through it, you'll probably end up buying a copy anyway
> cheers


i never got that book, but i did get some woodturning dvds and a sharpening dvd.
i did make a small wooden jig of sorts, it seems to work ok, but will no doubt invest in some expensive toy from sorby soon enough


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## miles_hot (20 May 2011)

rob12770":pamp63jx said:


> myturn":pamp63jx said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Rob
> ...


You might want to consider sending them back to amazon and having a word with Toolpost who sell sets which is what I started with and I can confirm that any mistakes are down to me and not the tool  
Miles


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## miles_hot (20 May 2011)

rob12770":1xjbm45k said:


> ok ta, i do know how to sharpen tools, i just dont have a grinder yet, at least, i have a fair idea..all in good time, to suggest that one should know how to sharpen before he starts to turn, i would guess, almost never happens, after all, we all got to start somewhere ..
> i am sure that book is great and all, but i would have thought that the fact that forums like this and all the youtube videos etc exist, would mean that you one would not have to buy books etc.. hmm
> 
> also, the Bits & Pieces site, great stuff Chas (hammer)



Interestingly sometimes tool manufactures don't bother to put any sort of decent profile on tools (figuring people will only change them anyway) which is just lazy but there you go. I would probably not assume that tools are cutting sharp when they come out of the packet (having said that I usually try them out as soon as I get home as I'm an impatient beggar).

Books not important - sacrilege; what else would you look at on the bog? Also there are some stunning books out there which saves an awful lot of surfing through rubbish 

Miles


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