# Rope Warming



## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

In our cold and damp bell tower we have a rope warmer that dries out the bottom ends of the ropes so they are flexible enough to use. It consists of an octagonal ply tube, 200mm diameter and 1.5m tall with 2 x 100w incandescent bulbs in the bottom.
It works well.
I have three problems:

Incandescent bulbs are getting more difficult to find.
The bulbs fail rather more frequently than my purse likes
I constantly get messages: "You've left a light on in the belfry!"
I'd like to replace the bulbs with a heater. ! can buy 100w cabinet heaters (at a rather eye-watering price) - or I can buy 100w "basking heaters" for a terrarium. There may be other options. Question is, does a 100w dedicated heater give off more heat than a light bulb? I really don't want to cook our expensive bell ropes!


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## Gordon Tarling (21 Nov 2021)

100 Watts is 100 Watts, whether from a light bulb or a heater, so two of those 100W cabinet heaters will give as much heat as the 2 x 100W light bulbs. Perhaps place a thermostat somewhere near the top of the octagonal tube to keep the temperature to a reasonable level?

G.


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## eribaMotters (21 Nov 2021)

Will a greenhouse tube heater fit? Dimplex Thermostatic Tubular Heater IPX4 2ft 80W (toolstation.com) 
I have a smaller version fitted in hall cupboard that has an outside wall. They also have a built in thermostat so only come on when needed.

Colin


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## Cabinetman (21 Nov 2021)

You could use a desiccant type dehumidifier, this would warm the ropes up, and remove the moisture.
Probably more than you want to pay though at about £130. Ian


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## TRITON (21 Nov 2021)

You live and learn. Warming ropes for bell puller people. Who'd have thought...


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

Gordon Tarling said:


> 100 Watts is 100 Watts, whether from a light bulb or a heater, so two of those 100W cabinet heaters will give as much heat as the 2 x 100W light bulbs. Perhaps place a thermostat somewhere near the top of the octagonal tube to keep the temperature to a reasonable level?
> 
> G.


I think that you are pretty well correct - but not totally. If a device is giving off 100w, 100% of this is emitted as radiation - but only some of that (OK, OK, almost all - but not quite!) is heat. There is a good deal of light emitted that escapes the box through the open base (and is the basis of one of my problems) that will NOT result in a heating effect.
Yes, I agree that that's a very small loss. I don't know the efficiency of an incandescent bulb. If it was 10%, perhaps, it means that as a heater, we could take it as 90% efficient.

But, actually, the bigger question I was asking was about whether I should look at devices other than a vivarium heater or a cabinet warmer.


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

TRITON said:


> You live and learn. Warming ropes for bell puller people. Who'd have thought...


Live and learn indeed! There's a whole world of campanology out there, awaiting discovery...


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

eribaMotters said:


> Will a greenhouse tube heater fit? Dimplex Thermostatic Tubular Heater IPX4 2ft 80W (toolstation.com)
> I have a smaller version fitted in hall cupboard that has an outside wall. They also have a built in thermostat so only come on when needed.
> 
> Colin


Not easily. It could run the length of the tube - but then the tube would have to be bigger to accommodate the ropes, the tube and a guard to keep the ropes off the hot tube. That's a rebuild - but crucially, it makes a bigger, more difficult object to manhandle in a limited space.

Ian,
I've looked into the dessicant plan too. That's probably great if you could run it to dry the whole ringing chamber, but, with an ill-fitting outer door, another opposite it into the church and the consequent draught - as well as a ceiling some 30ft or more high and a large stained glass window, I think that the potential supply of moisture will exceed anything we are likely to be able to run (or collect - no chance of draining to the outside!)


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Nov 2021)

Rig something up with a cheap hair dryer?


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## MARK.B. (21 Nov 2021)

Just a thought that may or may not be worth considering  could you use a Soil heating cable or similar inside the tube


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

MARK.B. said:


> Just a thought that may or may not be worth considering  could you use a Soil heating cable or similar inside the box


Well worth a thought... I wonder - does it need to be buried in soil (in the same way as a fish tank heater must be submerged)? Is this something that will get past the H&S officer* and the PAT tester? 

*Oh, yes! That's me!


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## MARK.B. (21 Nov 2021)

I don't think they need to be in soil to operate safely and you get a fitted thermostat on most. I was thinking 1 or possibly 2 of them winding up around inside the tube would give a steady heat over the full length . There are cables used for trace heating i think in industry and sure i read on here where they have been used on lathes etc to keep rust away so maybe something along those lines would do the trick


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## Gordon Tarling (21 Nov 2021)

There's plenty of choice of heaters on the RS website - one or two of these cabinet heaters might do the trick. There's also plenty of other heaters on the RS site, including tape/cable heaters.

G.


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

MARK.B. said:


> I don't think they need to be in soil to operate safely and you get a fitted thermostat on most. I was thinking 1 or possibly 2 of them winding up around inside the tube would give a steady heat over the full length . There are cables used for trace heating i think in industry and sure i read on here where they have been used on lathes etc to keep rust away so maybe something along those lines would do the trick


One VERY attractive part to this is that I already HAVE a soil warming cable that I'm not using!


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## profchris (21 Nov 2021)

I had to look up 'basking' heaters - they seem to be radiant heat lamps, which don't seem appropriate to me. These heat the surfaces on which their light falls, rather than giving off steady heat by convection.

Enclosure heaters (I guess the same as cabinet heaters) are designed for this kind of work, so should be safe to be left on for indefinite periods. The RS site (also linked previously) sells them in various wattages, giving the surface temperature which might be helpful to you. The 100w is the coolest, surprisingly, at 85 degrees C, and would fit. £32 plus delivery, so more than a heat lamp but I'd guess a lot cheaper than a single bell rope


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## MARK.B. (21 Nov 2021)

Now if you just had a infrared warming blanket instead that might work too


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

MARK.B. said:


> Now if you just had a infrared warming blanket instead that might work too


Fresh out of infrared warming blankets!


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## Sandyn (21 Nov 2021)

I would purchase a 200W 12V supply UL listed, and replace the bulbs with a vertical array of resistors. Easy peasy!! Use the same housing. Safer than using light bulbs That was a real iffy design safety wise!!


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## Sandyn (21 Nov 2021)

Gordon Tarling said:


> 100 Watts is 100 Watts, whether from a light bulb or a heater, so two of those 100W cabinet heaters will give as much heat as the 2 x 100W light bulbs. Perhaps place a thermostat somewhere near the top of the octagonal tube to keep the temperature to a reasonable level?
> 
> G.


I knew what you meant!!


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## WoodchipWilbur (21 Nov 2021)

Sandyn said:


> I would purchase a 200W 12V supply UL listed, and replace the bulbs with a vertical array of resistors. Easy peasy!! Use the same housing. Safer than using light bulbs That was a real iffy design safety wise!!


Ah! I like what I understand. But I don't understand much... 

200W 12V supply UL listed... Fine! Got that.
Replace the bulbs with a... Absolutely - the whole point of this useful thread.
... resistors ... Yup! I've come across a number of different formats of these
... vertical array ... Lost me there, I am afraid.
I'm aware that the light bulbs are less than ideal; I can understand what I'm doing with enclosure heaters; I follow what @profchris says about the radiant "heat lamp". But here, I think I risk going where angels fear to tread; easy peasy or not!


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## HamsterJam (22 Nov 2021)

WoodchipWilbur said:


> Live and learn indeed! There's a whole world of campanology out there, awaiting discovery...


I ring too  - we don’t have rope heaters though.


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## WoodchipWilbur (22 Nov 2021)

HamsterJam said:


> I ring too  - we don’t have rope heaters though.


I was pretty sure there'd be another ringer here!! You may well not need rope warmers (or driers) - but we proudly hold the prize for "The Coldest Ringing Chamber in Yorkshire"! 
Mind you, as we all came out of lockdown, and with all of the talk of build-up of CO2 and aerosols, we suddenly became a very popular venue for meetings!


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## HamsterJam (22 Nov 2021)

You could try looking at cabinet or enclosure heaters. Unfortunately not cheap but can be had in more compact sizes than tube heaters.



https://uk.farnell.com/pentagon/ach60-60w-230v/heater-anti-condensation-60w/dp/3183208


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## WoodchipWilbur (22 Nov 2021)

Popping up on my Black Friday Deals this morning is a "personal desktop heater". It's 500W, ceramic and with a thermostat and fan. It will fit in the space at the bottom of my tube, it has overheating and tilt protection - and is under £20. 
As Jane Eyre didn't quite say, "Reader, I bought it!".


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## Sandyn (23 Nov 2021)

WoodchipWilbur said:


> ... vertical array ... Lost me there, I am afraid.


All I meant there is to fit the resistors vertically up the enclosure. I just noticed it's wooden, so it would have to be replaced by a proper fire enclosure. Still reasonably easy to do, but I see you bought a ceramic heater.


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## Bm101 (6 Mar 2022)

I used to have a gay mate who was a campanologist. Lovely fella, he'd won prizes for it believe it or not, and we used to quite often have a pint in The Local. His name was D.R.Love a name I thought I thought I should probably have instead of Chris. Imagine the opportunite for playful banter when using your credit card. Entirely wasted on him.
I used to casually irritate him by asking him if he was ringing*insert homosexual campanology bell jokes here*any time in the near future. It amused my simple mind at least
Mind you he once got me to sing 'There'll be Blue over the White cliffs of Dover' by Dame Vera Lynn and a good part of 'Non, je ne regrette rien' by Edith Piaf OUT LOUD IN. THE. PUB. by pretending he had never heard of them. 

The pri**k. 

He got me there no doubt about that one. 
I had that horrible moment of realisation he was taking the p*ss and half the pub had heard me at the EXACT moment I suddenly realised it had gone really, really quiet... Took a while to live that one down. 
Hope the heater works ok.


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## Sideways (6 Mar 2022)

Something like this might do the trick.
You need to bolt it to some form of heatsink to help transfer the heat from the device to the air as it doesn't have enough surface area on its own.






RS PRO, 6Ω 250W Aluminium Chassis Mount Resistor ±5% | RS







uk.rs-online.com





I wouldn't worry about the rating being higher than your bulbs. I doubts that much science went into the original design, just a bit of trial and error.
An aluminium resistor should never wear out provided you have enough airflow so that it doesn't overheat.


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## TRITON (6 Mar 2022)

What about that foam pipe insulation ?, you know the type, its silver grey tube with a slit up one side. You could put it on and slide it up,get to the end(I think they're 6' lengths, then add another which in turn pushes the first one further up, till you either cover the entire rope, which I dont think is practical due to the height of some towers, or just the lower ends the bell ringers hold.

Or someone walks up the tower, unhooks the rope, drops it down to be stored somewhere warmer, then repeats the process in reverse. Has to be better than heating an entire tower with the price of energy soaring as it is.


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## WoodchipWilbur (7 Mar 2022)

TRITON said:


> What about that foam pipe insulation ?, you know the type, its silver grey tube with a slit up one side. You could put it on and slide it up,get to the end(I think they're 6' lengths, then add another which in turn pushes the first one further up, till you either cover the entire rope, which I dont think is practical due to the height of some towers, or just the lower ends the bell ringers hold.
> 
> Or someone walks up the tower, unhooks the rope, drops it down to be stored somewhere warmer, then repeats the process in reverse. Has to be better than heating an entire tower with the price of energy soaring as it is.


Foam pipe insulation would simply prevent the ropes from drying. They would take a long time to put on and off too.
Taking a rope off takes around 10 minutes plus the time to climb the 56 spiral steps and unlock the belfry door and clamber onto the frame. Putting it on and adjusting it for height (an inch or two is critical) takes more like 20 min as the rope is fed down through 3 floors and a rope guide. Now multiply that by 8 for the 8 bells and think of doing that two, sometimes three times a week.
It ain't gonna happen!


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## Auldfart2010 (7 Mar 2022)

The second paragraph in this article might interest you @WoodchipWilbur Mud on the dog, blood on the ropes
I have a keen interest in all things sharp and the use of ropes. As a pre-teen I once snook into the bell tower in the Dronfied Parish Church and rang one of the bells. I then ran like The Devil was chasing me. I also like flying buttresses and stonework too. Oh the list goes on.


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## Tris (7 Mar 2022)

Would a fermentation heater do the job?








Flexible Heat Pad - 30cm Diameter - For Use With All Fermenters & Carboys, Homebrew Beer Wine & Cider


This easy to use heat pad is designed to keep your brew warm enough for a consistent fermentation. It consumes only 25 watts of power and so is very economical to run. It is 30cm in diameter and is safe for use with both glass and plastic fermenters, carboys and buckets. It can be wiped down and...




www.biggerjugs.co.uk





There are others but the 7 year old in me couldn't resist the website name


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## WoodchipWilbur (7 Mar 2022)

Auldfart2010 said:


> The second paragraph in this article might interest you @WoodchipWilbur Mud on the dog, blood on the ropes
> I have a keen interest in all things sharp and the use of ropes. As a pre-teen I once snook into the bell tower in the Dronfied Parish Church and rang one of the bells. I then ran like The Devil was chasing me. I also like flying buttresses and stonework too. Oh the list goes on.


The whole thing was interesting!
She suggests a piano heater. In this particular installation, I suspect that what I see on the net will be less than ideal because it is a long and thin unit - and I think I need a short and fat one to fit in the bottom of the "tube".
Same again, Tris. The pad is fine but the format less so. Laid flat, it is going to block the flow of air - and there isn't the height to put a 300mm pad on the side.

To refer back to my original post (from November last year!):


> In our cold and damp bell tower we have a rope warmer that dries out the bottom ends of the ropes so they are flexible enough to use. It consists of an octagonal ply tube, 200mm diameter and 1.5m tall with 2 x 100w incandescent bulbs in the bottom.
> It works well.


The heater needs to fit into the small chamber at the bottom, below the metal grid that keeps the ropes themselves away from the heat source. Note that it already works well. It doesn't "heat an entire tower with the price of energy soaring as it is". Not noticeably, anyway!

On the subject of bell ropes (which we weren't but was part of the subject of the blog that Auldfart pointed to.) I actually make bell ropes in a small way - and know most of the ropewalks about the country. "No One" nowadays gets a rope that is hemp or flax all the way up! (I'm sure that some do - but they are rare.) Almost all ropes are made of pre-stretched terylene (or the newer, higher-tech Dyneema) which is machine-spliced onto a natural fibre (flax nowadays) woollen sallie and tail end. You wouldn't want to be handling a man-made tail end.


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## Ozi (7 Mar 2022)

eribaMotters said:


> Will a greenhouse tube heater fit? Dimplex Thermostatic Tubular Heater IPX4 2ft 80W (toolstation.com)
> I have a smaller version fitted in hall cupboard that has an outside wall. They also have a built in thermostat so only come on when needed.
> 
> Colin


These are excellent, often used in lift shafts and motor rooms to keep the damp at bay, I use them in mushroom sheds, 40W version on solar, lots of different makes, sizes and powers available. With the thermostat they won't get too hot, I don't know what the temperature limit for bell rope is but ours you can hold to warm your hands so I would think they were OK touching the rope. Don't know if that negates the rebuild. Don't send me the bill if I'm wrong.


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