# Making a brass infill plane (Hattori Hanzo, DP)



## Hattori-Hanzo

Hi all, I know a lot of you are interested in build projects so I thought I'd start a thread on something I've been wanting to make for a long time.

It's nice to document the progress and have an on-line diary of how things are going. I've actually started the same thread on another forum and a member there recommenced this forum to me and I'm glad he did as I've already seen a lot of excellent threads here.

I use hand planes every day and I've always lusted after a high quality bespoke plane, like a Lazarus, Holtey, Bill Carter etc but the price of these planes can go into the thousands and my pockets just aren't deep enough.

So making one is the next best thing. The only trouble is I've never done a day of metal work in my life.
Woodwork yes but metal work is a whole other ball game.
So how well this project will turn out is any ones guess.

I've done a fair few hours research into making infill planes and am confident in the process...mostly.
I've taken a lot of inspiration from Carter's and Lazurus planes, the planes they produce are amazing.

So i think the best thing to do is get stuck in!

First things first I ordered some 4mm CZ108 brass 300mm long by 100mm wide.







I then cut it in half on the band saw.






I made a paper template of the sides of the plane working out the dovetail spacing.






And again cut them roughly on the band saw.






After cutting the dovetails roughly on the band saw I spent the next 3 hours filing them.
This was tedious work as the tails had to be square bottomed and as straight as possible, getting into the corners was difficult.
Any miss shaped tails would result in gaps later on.

I later found out that grinding the teeth off one side of a triangular file greatly helps in getting sharp clean corners. It did indeed make the job a lot easier and the results where far better than using a half round file.






After 3 hours they are still not quite finished but the majority is done.

After that I marked out and started cutting the sole of the plane from a piece of 6mm mild steel.






I've since learnt that 01 tool steel is a far better choice for the sole as it is accurately machined and harder.

The mild steel was freely available at the time so I went with it. It should be a little easier to cut and file over tool steel.

That little lot was enough for one evening.

As I'll only be working on the plane in the evenings its going to be a lengthy project but I'll keep this thread updated as and when more is done.


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## AndyT

Welcome to the forum.
I think you've made the right decision - to get stuck in with the knowledge you have already. I shall follow your project with interest.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the welcome Andy


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## gasman

I'm excited too. Welcome and very good luck
Mark


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## Bm101

Can't help with advice but always love anything related to plane building. Watching with interest. Welcome to ukw.
Regards,
Chris


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the welcome Chris and Mark. 
I'm taking lots of pictures so hopefully they should keep things interesting.


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## Oskar Sedell

very nice. Looks like a good start! I´m looking Forward to see more of the build!


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## Ttrees

Welcome to the forum Hattori
The design looks classy
Tom


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## D_W

I've made all steel and brass and steel infills. Not tons of them, but 5? 

I have limited tooling, also, and no real experience with metalwork outside the confines of making planes. I have some suggestions for the boring part of the work if you're interested in them, but a lot of it depends on how your brain works. Mine is constantly looking for the easy road, so even while I'm doing something routine (which I still try to do well, no matter what), it's always looking for an improvement. 

As for the two types of steel - high carbon vs. low carbon, it's probably a wash. O1 works nicely and you can comb cut it and break it off, and then it files cleanly, but it's definitely harder. It'll pin files a little less, but neither type is fast on a lap. 

if you are cleaning up the metal by yourself (especially in regard to squaring metal parts or flattening things that) and not with machine tools, you'd probably enjoy getting a body file (like a vixen) that's intended to be flexible - use that for the bulk work, finish with a file and then lap to visual perfection. 

Keep the wax handy when you finish the plane and work with it - bronze and steel planes both have a lot more friction than cast iron. I see you have an A13 type design, which is a good basis and makes a pleasant plane to use. 

I found the first plane hard to make well (but mine works fine, it's just a little ugly), and the second plane will eliminate 90% of the issues you had with the first. refurbishment of stray wild vintage infill planes will become extremely easy after you've made one, too.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thank you for the warm welcome every one and thank you D_W for the advice I'm looking into vixen files as I type 


I finished cutting out the sole and rounded the ends with a file.






Next was to mark out the pins onto the sole. I used blue marker and a scribe to make the lines easier to see.
I also screwed the brass sides to a block of wood to keep them from moving when marking the pins.






Then I carefully cut to my scribe lines using a hacksaw and 24tpi blade. The mild steel wasn't too bad to cut, not easy going but easier than I had anticipated.





After that I took the sole over to the pillar drill and drilled a series of holes along the waste line. Had to be careful not to drill past the waste line as this would have resulted in cutting all of them to the lowest point which would have been a lot of work.
Thankfully it all went well.






With the holes drilled along the waste line I then used a junior hacksaw to cut out the remaining waste






Then was the slow task of carefully filing to the scribe lines. I picked up a tip of rubbing chalk onto the file to stop it from clogging, this neat trick really helps.






I'm finding much like wood it takes a lot of patience to hand work steel, just one stroke to many with the file can easily put you under the scribe line.
It took another two and a half to three hours to file all of the dovetails.

With all of the dovetails filed I could try a first test fit.






I'm pleased with how they have gone together so far but there is a little more refinement to do.
Swapping over to needle files to get the corners nice and sharp should do the trick.






But I'm tired for one evening


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## D_W

Can't recall if I said, but don't buy the vixens new. They're expensive, and wherever you may be, if you have ebay, they will show up used at some point for almost nothing. 

You want the flexible kind with a screw hole at each end, no handle. You can just affix them to a piece of scrap wood with screws so that you can make the grinding a two hand operation. The times I've found them unused here in the states (with a little bit of patience) and not from retail sellers they are about $5-$8 each. One of them will do all of the grinding work on several planes, saving your files and paper for finish work. 

They're aggressive and take off small pigtails of metal instead of dust or tiny filings, and they don't pin like a file.


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## thetyreman

very interesting thread, watching with interest  welcome to the forum


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hi Thetyreman thanks for the welcome.

D_W
I've had this file for a while which I picked up from a boot sale.
I have no idea what kind of file it's called but looks similar to some of the vixen files I've seen on E-bay, though mine has a fixed handle and isn't flexible.
The Vixen files I've seen on e-bay are quite expensive even second hand so I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for one on the cheap. thanks for the advice.







With the dovetails nearly finished I started work on the mouth of the plane.
Because I'm planning to make a single blade plane (no chip breaker) the mouth opening is critical, too small and the shavings will jam causing the plane not to work.
To large will increase the risk of chatter and the inability to create fine shavings.
I'm being cautious and cutting the mouth small as I'm not quite sure yet how the blade will seat. This wont be apparent until the body is made and the wooden infill is fitted.

I marked out the mouth and centre punched a series of holes.






took it over to the pillar drill and drilled out the holes.






With a hand drill I elongated one of the holes enough to fit a hacksaw blade in.






I cut away as much of the waste as possible to my scribe lines.

Then came the task of filing the mouth, as you can guess this took a while!

I know I'm going to bed the blade at 55 degrees so had to file a bevel on the mouth to match it.






With the mouth opening only being 4mm wide it was difficult to fit a file in straight let alone angled over at 55 degrees.
Luckily I managed to find a very thin file which I started with then once the majority of the bevel was done I could get a larger file in.

Needle files came in handy to finish the corners and I was always being cautious not to open the mouth any bigger than the scribe lines.






Thankfully after a good few hours it was done....for now.
I know I will have to adjuster it later down the line but that's enough for one evening.


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## D_W

That looks like a vixen except the teeth are oriented oppositely.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the majority of the mouth done I turned my attention back to the dovetails.

I spent a while making sure the corners where clean and sharp and that the bottoms where filed to my scribe lines. Getting them as accurate as possible will help later when I come to peen them shut.

Then I had a big decision to make.

Early English mitre planes had a decorative feature called a Cupids bow. Often shown on the wooden wedge or on the infill and sometimes carried over above the dovetails on rare planes.

Bill Carter likes to add them to his planes and if done well look beautiful.

To say a novice trying them is ambitious is an understatement. Even a competent metal worker can find them challenging.
Cutting them accurately is one thing but the hard part is peening the metal into the cuts. Something I've never done before and have zero experience in...... but as the saying goes nothing ventured nothing gained. 

I had a practice on some scrap metal to start with. The first attempt on the left didn't go well but the second attempt on the right worked out better.






You can see why it's called a Cupids bow now.

With a few more practice tries done I went for it and started to cut one on the brass.






I used a triangular file for the centre point and a round file for the curves. I first cut the point in the middle of the dovetail. Then i start to create the curves equally on each side.






Once I'm happy with the placement and depth of the point and curves I round over the flats to finish the bow.






After a little more refinement with needle files to the bow and dovetail its finished.

Then rinse and repeat for the rest of the dovetails on both sides and sole of the plane.






I understand why this is a challenging task now. It takes huge amounts of patience and concentration to get them looking accurate and uniform.






This took over 2 evenings to finish and I'm only half way through.


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## Ttrees

Make sure you make some sort of rough infill before peining those dovetails as the material is softer, thinner and the fact you have made cupids bows doesn't make it easier.
It might even be advisable to have a length of stock for when or if a section gets damaged.
Good luck with the build
Tom


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the advice trees.
I've made a former that sits inside the body and I'll secure it to that while peining, hopefully it will support the metal and keep the sides square.

That's the idea any way


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## gasman

WOW you just upped the bar with those cupids dovetails in steel / brass! I am in awe if that turns out as beautiful as the 'female' component of it looks. I wish you all the best...however one thing which I would be concerned about is that brass is surely more malleable than steel? I might have to google that. But the way you have done it it surely means you have to 'persuade' the steel to fill the holes in the brass sides? My moderately scientific, moderately experienced in planemaking, brain, is immediately concerned about how that will turn out. For me this is the most interesting thread I have followed for a good while and I wish you all the very best.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thank you for your comment Gasman and the words of encouragement I really appreciate it.

This was exactly my concern too.

I've cut the bows into the steel on the sole also. My plan is to peen the brass into the steel bows on the sole but leave the brass bows on the sides of the plane exposed (unfilled).
Some of the older planes are like this and it's also something Carter does.

I'm quickly learning nothing about this project is easy!

Now the Cupid bows are cut I can start to shape the plane sides.

I used double sided tape to fix the two halves together then stuck my paper template onto that.

I then cut the shape out on the band saw






I then went over the shape with files to clean it up. I won't bother getting it exactly right at this point as I'll be sanding it later once the wooden infill is made and fitted.






Finally the plane is taking on some sort of shape!






That's all for this evening as time got away from me.

Next up is the part I'm most dreading, peining.


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## Ttrees

It looks great Hattori
What are you using as a former?
Is it a precisely stacked or solid machined steel, or some lump of tightly fitting boxwood?

Are you going to make a bridge?


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Trees  

The former is nothing elaborate just a lump of Iroko machined square.
I'm going for a lever cap design but with a single iron instead of a bridge and wedge.

Now that the plane sides have been cut to shape I can permanently fix them to the sole.

This is done by peining the metal surfaces together to create a tight fit that will not come apart.

I started by machining a piece of wood to the exact internal dimension of the sole. I made sure it was straight and square as this will help to hold the sides of the plane square when i peen them.
I fixed the piece of wood inside of the plane body and secured it in place with G cramps and screws.







It's make or break time, this is either going to go well or totally ruin all of the work so far leaving me with no choice but to scrap what I've done and start again.

I needed to peen the side dovetails first as this will drive the sole of the plane tight onto the sides.

I secured the plane into my bench vice and fixed a G-cramp around the dovetail I was working on. This was to help keep the metal from spreading outwards.
I then used a combination of metal punches to try and drive the metal into the cupid bows.

I found that working from the outer edge towards the centre helped to get the brass where it needed to go.






Filling the bow part was hard enough but trying to drive the brass all the way to the point of the cupid bow was incredibly difficult.

I found the hammering force needed was far greater than I had imagined and I was getting a lot of bounce from my bench vice making it even harder work.
I tried hammering on top of an anvil but found the plane would bounce even worse. At least with it held in a vice it left both hands free to work.

Here you can see that the bows are filled but I still need to drive the brass in to the point.






I also found that while brass is quite soft it's also brittle. On a few occasions small pieces would crack and break off as can be seen on the right of the first dovetail.






I knew this stage was going to be tough but it was much more difficult than I had anticipated. The bounce from my vice was hindering progress and my poor technique certainly wasn't helping either.
But I persevered, wedging a large bit of wood under my vice as a leg helped to take some of the bounce away and with each dovetail my technique was improving until they where all done.






All I had to do now was peen the steel dovetails on the side of the plane.

I thought I'd have no chance of getting it done, brass is softer than steel and that's been a nightmare but to my surprise the steel seemed easier to peen than the brass.
I used the same technique of clamping the plane in the vice and working from the outside in to drive the dovetail up tight.

With all of the peining done it was time to file away the surplus metal and flatten the sides to reveal the results.
I used a mixture of files to remove the bulk of the waste then fixed 60 grit sand paper to the bed of an over hand planer, 
It has a solid cast iron bed which is very sturdy and nice and flat. I used that to flatten the sides and sole.

thankfully the side dovetails where looking good






And after a *lot* of filing and sanding the sole dovetails could be seen.
















In total with filing and sanding this stage alone took around 5 hours and while they are not perfect I'm pretty happy with the results for my first attempt.
There are some gaps that I'm not happy with but the majority of them came up well.

The project still has a long way to go but I've learnt so much already from it. It's been hard work but rewarding too. I was most apprehensive of this stage and I'm glad its done, I don't think my arms could have taken much more hammering


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## AndyT

Wow! That's looking worth the effort. (Easy to say when it's someone else's effort, but I think I can hear the relief in your voice.)

From a tiny bit of experience working on brass some years ago, I think the problem is that although it starts out soft, it very quickly work hardens and becomes brittle. On some work you can heat it up with a torch to regain malleability, but I suspect on a plane like yours, doing so would just introduce a set of new problems with the steel and brass expanding at different rates.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Andy, massive relief for sure I'm just glad it worked out.

Work hardening is a phrase I've not heard of before and from a quick google search it seems that is exactly what was happening.
Interesting to know heating the brass can help to soften it again I'll have to remember that.
It might have even been worth gently heating the brass before peining each dovetail.


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## gasman

Thats a beautiful job - so sorry I doubted you!
Amazing cupids bow dovetails


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## rxh

You are doing a really good job - I am following your progress with great interest.


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## Chris Knight

It looks as if you have filed off the steel you need to fill the cupid's bows in the brass?


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments guys 

Chris, I'm leaving the side cupid bows exposed (unfilled) I had decided to do this from the beginning as mentioned earlier I wasn't sure if the softer brass would deform when trying to peen the steel into it.
In the future I'd like to have another go at making another plane and filling all of the cupid bows but I think I'd want to use bronze for the sides as I understand its much harder than brass and should hold up to the peining process a lot better.

Finally with the sides and sole secured I can move onto the wooden in fill.

As I understand Box wood, Rosewood and Ebony where popular choices for metal infill planes.
Unfortunately these woods are hard to come by now and if you do find a piece there is a high price tag to go along with it.
Wooden moulding planes where normally made from Oak, Beech and Ash.
Many different woods have been used for plane making but these where the most popular.

The main criteria for the infill is that its strong, Tight grained straight timber that's been seasoned well.

We have a nice variety of woods at work but one of my favourites is Hard Maple.
Beautifully white in colour with dark cathedrals. Its very tight grained and strong, just right for an infill.
I was even luckier that we had a piece with some "birds eye" in which is stunning when polished.

Only down side is it wasn't thick enough so I had to glue two bits together.






Here you can see some of the "birds eye" figuring in the grain.






Once the glue had set I planed the Maple so it was a tight fit into the plane body.

Then cut away the excess on the band saw. Hard Maple living up to its name is tough to cut even with a band saw. Though the blade was a bit dull after cutting all the brass.






With the waste taken away I made a simple jig to hold the plane and infill so I could machine it.






On the over head router I used a twin flute bearing cutting to trim the Maple down flush with the brass sides.
I had to take a cut from each side as the cutter wasn't long enough to do it in one pass.






Maple machines beautifully and I was left with a clean, crisp cut.

I was unsure how I wanted to finish the ends of the plane but in the end settled with a round which I again cut on the band saw.






After some more filing and sanding the profile is complete. Hurrah!


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## Bm101

Crikey. =D> 
Great work and a real pleasure to read about and see your progress.


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## Steliz

That looks magnificent.
I didn't realise how interesting I would find something like this but I find myself eagerly awaiting the next update, thanks.


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## Tony Zaffuto

Beautiful work! You have sure set the bar extremely high for anyone that mat want to try their hand at an infill (even one with metal working machines!).


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments guys I really appreciate it


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Next up is the Tote.

Lazarus planes incorporate metal into the tote, something I've not seen before. I like them so much I wanted to add something similar to my plane.

After much deliberation I settled on a design I liked then made a paper/MDF template.
I wanted some thing that looked traditional but with a modern twist.






From there I used the template to cut out two pieces in Cherry wood (another favourite of mine) and one in Maple.






Then I used the template to mark out the rest of the tote onto a piece of 12mm aluminium.
I used the pillar drill to make a series of holes around the lines.






With all the holes drilled all I had to do was cut it out.






Which I did with a hacksaw.






It took a little while, I had to use a junior hacksaw to get round the tighter curves.






From there I fixed the two Cherry wood pieces to the aluminium with double sided tape. Because the aluminium is soft I could use a oscillating bobbin sander to clean up the outside of the tote in one go. This saved a lot of work sanding a filing by hand.






I want the tote to be a stand out feature of the plane so wanted something bold looking.
I also wanted to shape the tote to fit my hand perfectly and include a palm rest, this is something you don't often see on production planes as they have to cater for many different hand shapes and sizes.

I used a mixture of rasps and files to start shaping the tote.






Adding in the palm rest first. I was constantly checking the tote in my hand to make sure it was a comfortable fit and adjusting where needed.






The right hand side was getting there, just needs to be sanded through the grits.






I also added a thumb indentation on the left side.






The rear view shows the contours of the tote well. I'm pleased with how it turn out, it fits my hand perfect and is very comfortable.






Next I could fit the aluminium part of the tote to the maple infill.

I marked it out and drilled a series of holes in the maple.






I then used a gents saw to cut out the remaining waste.






And finally chisels to get a tight fit






The aluminium is sitting proud of the maple at the moment but this will get filed flush once the tote is fitted to the infill.






Next I used epoxy to glue the cherry sides and maple top to the aluminium.






Once the epoxy had cured I sanded the tote up to an initial 240 grit.






With that the tote is pretty much complete and ready to be fitted to the infill but there is a lot more to do before that.











I'm pretty happy with how the tote turned out. I like the balance of metal and wood, it's comfortable and its a large feature of the plane almost to the point of being over powering but that's what I was aiming for.

Next up is the front knob.


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## AndyT

This is getting to be a really distinctive plane! Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Andy 

Still got loads to do but it's starting to take shape.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

For the front knob I'm keeping with the theme of wood and metal.

I planed a straight edge on a piece of cherry wood, our over hand planer decided to break this morning so I pulled out an old jointer plane I made.






Next I went over to the engineering lathe. It doesn't get used much any more and tooling is sparse.
While I've done a fair amount of turning on our wood lathe I've only used this engineering lathe a hand full of times over the years and am only self taught (which equates to me probably doing every thing wrong)

I'm turning soft aluminium so it's not to bad. Here I'm machining the bottom part of the front knob.







From there I cut a piece of the cherry wood and fitted a threaded insert into the centre.






I then used epoxy to glue the aluminium to the cherry wood, using the bolt to pull them tight together.

Once the epoxy had cured I Glued the cherry to a sacrificial piece of wood that I could secure in the wood lathe.






Back to the familiarity of the wood lathe I turned the front knob to size.






Next I marked out and fitted another threaded insert into the maple infill.






And finally it's starting to resemble a plane.











With all of my fumbling with the engineering lathe that was time for another evening.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the tote and front knob nearly complete I turned my attention back to the small gaps in some of the sole dovetails.

While they where only hairline gaps and maybe acceptable they would play on my mind if I didn't at least try to rectify them.
As the gaps where so fine the only solution I could come up with was to try and fill them with silver solder. This would fill any gaps and be as strong as the base metal.
Silver solder unlike its name is actually a good colour match to brass.

The main concern is the heat involved with silver soldering. the base metal has to be brought up to cherry red and the silver solder will flow into the joint by capillary action.
It's a difficult process on thick metals normally done with an oxy acetylene torch which has greater control over heat and flame.

I don't have an oxy acetylene torch but do have a mapp gas blow torch which gets slightly hotter than a propane torch.

With the heat needed there is a high risk the sole of the plane will be distorted which could potentially ruin the plane.
There is also the chance that the brass and steel will expand and contract at different rates causing the gaps to enlarge even worse.

After much deliberation and research I decided to try so ordered some easy flo flux and silver solder.

The flux is essential to draw the silver solder where you want it and protect the metal from oxidisation. It's mixed with water to form a paste.






I tested on some brass off cuts first. The brass heated up quickly and the solder flowed well.






After filing off the surplus solder you can just about see two round punch marks filled with silver solder on the right.
The colour match with the brass is good.






Happy with the results I moved over to the real thing.

I used fire bricks under the plane to help hold in the heat.
The steel was much more difficult to get up to temperature than the brass. I was trying not to apply direct heat to any part of the sole that didn't need it.
After several nervous minutes the solder finally started to flow.






No way to do this neatly, the solder will flow where ever there is flux.
The sole of the plane did oxidise and blacken by the process but thankfully it went well and importantly there was no major distortion of the sole.

After a lot of sanding with 60 grit to remove the surplus silver solder I was happy with the results. They should come up better when I sand through higher grits.






It was another difficult process and one I'm glad is finished. I'm thankful it went well as there was a high potential that things could have gone wrong and I'm glad I decided to try it as it's another thing I've learnt about along the way.

That should be it for the dovetails, all that's left to do is sand them to a higher finish while flattening the sole.

With the solder order I also bought some 4mm thick 01 tool steel for the blade.

I marked out and started to cut the blade.






I'm leaving it long for the time being as I'm not sure how long I need to make it in conjunction with the lateral adjuster I've yet to make.
The tool steel cut well, I was expecting it to be difficult to cut but it was similar to mild steel, I've not tried filing it yet though. Much easier to cut than stainless steel though!






The bevelled top of the blade is a traditional style found on early planes with wooden blade wedges.
That's as far as I can go with the blade for the minute so next I can cut the bed of the infill.

The surface that the blade sits against is called the bed. I know I want the bedding angle at 55 degrees.
Slightly higher than the normal 45 degrees found on most modern planes. 
Having a higher angle should give a better finish to "wild grain" timbers at the cost of being slightly harder to push through the timber.

First I cut the bedding angle. This cut has to align with the mouth cut out in the sole of the plane I made earlier in the project.
Any misalignment here will result in the blade not bedding correctly which could cause chatter when using the plane.






and the second cut opens the throat of the plane where the shavings will eject.






The throat and mouth will need to be adjusted later once the blade is fitted and the plane is tested. If the throat or mouth is too small the shavings with jam and stop the blade from cutting.






And that was time for another evening.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Next on the to do list is the blade adjustment mechanism.

Keeping to the traditional theme (with modern twist) I wanted to do something similar to the Norris adjuster.

I started by making the pivot pin.
I machined some steel round bar down to match the out side diameter of a 16mm ball bearing. I then machined a nipple on the end that was a friction fit inside the bearing.
I had to get the fit perfect on this part or it wouldn't secure itself in place.






Next I made the blade pin which is the same as the pivot pin only slightly smaller.







Blade pin on the left, pivot pin in the centre and 16mm bearing on the right.
The blade pin locates in a hole in the blade, this will adjust the depth of cut.
the bearing gets fixed into the maple infill and the pivot pin fastens to it, this will give lateral adjustment to the blade.






Next I drilled and tapped an m6 thread into the pivot pin.






then drilled a 5mm through hole in the blade pin.






After that I machined the end of an 8mm steel rod down to 6mm and threaded it to match the pivot pin hole.






I then tapered the shaft of the rod.
The pivot pin threads on first and the blade pin pushes on loosely behind it. I secure the blade pin in place with a circlip.






Next I started to make the thumb wheel.
I started by machining some brass down to 30mm






I then used a knurling tool to machine the knurl onto the brass. It was my first time using one.
30mm was pushing the tool to it's limit and there was a lot of lateral pressure needed to machine the knurl deep enough.
Looking into this later it's a good idea to fix a tail stock to the piece being machined to support it.






Next I added a bevel to the top of the wheel and a bevel and shoulder to the bottom.
After this I drilled a 6mm hole through the centre
Lastly I started to part the wheel off.






The parting tool wasn't long enough to go all the way through so I used a hack saw to cut the last bit of brass to free the wheel.






The Brass thumb wheel is a friction fit onto the steel shaft. I forced it into place using my vice then peined the end of the steel shaft to lock the wheel in place.






I wasn't happy with the circlip holding the Blade pin in as I feared it would come off in use so I tapped and threaded a bolt onto the end of the shaft then secured it in place with a drill bit.






Not the most elegant solution but it seems to have work as I wanted.

I ground the surplus drill bit away and the adjustment mechanism was nearly done.






All that's left to do it sand it up and fit it to the infill.

There was a lot of work involved with this stage and a lot of things I was doing for the first time.
The lathe work took a lot patience as I was having to double check every thing I was doing but it was enjoyable.

It took the best part of 3 evenings to finish this stage.


----------



## gasman

Loving the attention to detail. I have made lots of those Norris-type adjusters in the past and they take patience. How many TPI is the 6mm hole? I only ask because that will of course determine how sensitive the adjuster is. Great work and very interesting WIP. Thank you


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## Tony Zaffuto

This ranks highly among the all time best "build alongs" on any woodworking forum! If this does not inspire one to try something new, nothing will!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks gasman.
I used a 0.75 tap and die for the adjuster, my set is very basic but it also has a 1.00mm as well but I thought the finer pitch of the 0.75 would help to slightly reduced back lash? And also offer finer adjustment.

Thanks Tony. In a world where mass production is taking over its nice to actually make something from scratch and it's even nicer to hear people appreciate it, thank you.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the blade adjuster made I needed to mount it to the maple infill.

I started by marking out and drilling a 16mm hole for the bearing to seat in.







From there I used a router to cut away the majority of the waste where the adjuster will sit.






A quick test fit of the adjuster to make sure I had removed enough material.






After that I used chisels and gouges to clean up the recess.
The bearing was a very tight fit in the hole but I also used a touch of epoxy to hold it in place.






And finally with the adjuster fitted.
The pivot pin is held still by the bearing, turning the adjuster moves the blade pin up and down to increase or decrease depth of cut.
Lateral adjustment is done by moving the shaft left or right which moves the blade in the opposite direction.







Now the adjuster mechanism is made and fitted I could measure how long the blade needs to be.
I cut the blade and drilled holes for the blade pin to sit through.
I also partially ground the bevel. I did not fully grind the bevel, doing this Helps to reduce the chance of the cutting edge warping when heat treating the blade. 






I was toying with the idea of making a bean can forge to use with my blow torch to heat the blade but decided to go for the easier option of using one of our wood burners instead.

I placed a fire brick on the bottom and loaded it up with pellets.






I'm not sure what temperature it got up to but it was damn hot!
I placed the blade and a large bolt inside.
The bolt is for preheating the oil before the blade gets quenched. Heating the oil can reduce the risk of warping and cracking the blade.







Once the bolt was cherry red I dropped it into the oil.
I then waited for the blade to go red before removing it from the burner and testing it with a magnet, if the magnet is not drawn to the steel its ready to quench.
If the blade still has some magnetism it needs to be heated further.

I plunged the blade in the oil and stood back, the flames were impressive.






Once the blade had cooled I removed it from the oil. The blade has black scale from oxidation and the burning oil so I gave it a quick clean up with some 60 grit sand paper.






I then tempered the blade in my oven at home.
I tempered at 200c for 4 hours then left the blade to air cool back to room temperature.
When it came out of the oven it was a lovely golden colour.






Back at the workshop I sanded the blade with some finer paper to remove the colouring and deep scratches.






I tested the blade with a file to feel its hardness. If the blade is hardened properly the file should skid off the metal with a distinct metallic sound.
While the blade is definitely hard I'm not sure if it could be better. I'll have to wait and see how the final grind of the bevel goes and see how well it holds it's edge.

All that's left to do is grind the bevel fully then sharpen and hone the cutting edge. I'll do this once the plane is finished.

I have made the mouth of the plane wide enough to accept a 6mm thick blade but I couldn't find any 6mm tool steel at the time of ordering.
If it turns out my current blade didn't harden well I can either try hardening it again or get hold of a piece of 6mm tool steel and start again.

If any one has an off cut of 6mm 01 tool steel 120mm x 60mm I'd happily buy it from you.

A thicker blade is beneficial in single iron planes as it greatly reduce the chance of chatter in use.


And finally the adjuster mechanism and maple infill inserted into the plane body.






and the blade inserted.






I'd say I'm roughly half way through the project at this stage. I've come a long way and learnt so much since it all started. I dread to think the hours I've put into this plane, maybe at the end i'll tally it up, if I'm feeling brave.
Thank you for all the comments and helpful information along the way, I hope you're not getting too bored of my ramblings just yet.


----------



## Bm101

Great read. Not heard about the magnetism. 
When you are tempering a good piece of advice I received on here was to fill a foil tray with sand and put it in the bottom of the oven. It acts as a heatsink and raises the oven Temps above normal. Mine came out blue using it. 
You also have a pm btw. 
Fascinating build.
Thanks for sharing. 
Cheers
Chris


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## D_W

I think we've been sandbagged a bit at the start here! this is really wonderful work!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments guys I really appreciate them.

Thank you for the tip BM I shall try to remember that one for the future. Do you put the blade into the sand or just above it in the oven?

D_W thanks for your comment. Indeed this is my first metal work project of this level.

I've done some basic metal work over the years. Not that I'd even call it real metal work, resizing bolts, filing escutcheons etc, Very basic stuff that I've needed to modify for other work pieces.
I've never worked with sheet brass or steel before, even turning the brass round bar was all new to me.
I've also only used the engineering lathe a few times prior to this, again for basic machining of aluminium tube mainly just parting it off to length.

I have really wanted to make my own metal plane for many years but always put it off as something I just couldn't do, no training or understanding of metal.
Then maybe a year or so ago I started to research it again and the process seemed familiar so maybe I could do it.
I've made a few wooden planes in the past so understand the very basics, It was just taking that first step.
A lot of the hand skills are transferable from woodwork (which I've done a fair amount of) to metal so that's helped a lot as well I think.

I've done nothing in metal on the same level and detail as this plane, I never in a million years expected it to come out as well as it is, not for a first attempt.

I am taking my time with it though and trying not to rush at any stage, while there are tedious parts I'm really enjoying it, makes a nice change from woodwork and I keep telling myself it will take as long as it takes.

The late evening's aren't going down to well with the Mrs though!


----------



## Tony Zaffuto

Bm101":x7kb02jy said:


> Great read. Not heard about the magnetism.
> When you are tempering a good piece of advice I received on here was to fill a foil tray with sand and put it in the bottom of the oven. It acts as a heatsink and raises the oven Temps above normal. Mine came out blue using it.
> You also have a pm btw.
> Fascinating build.
> Thanks for sharing.
> Cheers
> Chris



I've also heard of using bronze powder to put the iron in, after coming out of the tempering oven, for a gradual cooling to room temperature. I have worked with an old guy years back, that used a double wrap of heat treat foil, to prevent decarbing during the high temp part of the process and a toaster oven (kitchen appliance), set as 300 degrees F, and his tools had excellent life, equal to any far more tevhnical approaches.

All tool steel manufacturers have heat treat guides free for the asking, if you contact them.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the blade fitted I can work on the lever cap.

The lever cap mounts on top of the blade and locks it in position. I'm also going to try extending the lever cap towards the front of the blade to act as a cap iron "chip breaker" as well.

First I made some mock up lever caps of different designs.






and settled on this one.






Ideally I'd like to have made the lever cap out of brass but I couldn't find a piece thick enough.
Aluminium was easily available in the sizes I needed and at a fraction of the cost of brass so I went with that.
I could have used steel but wasn't brave enough to trying working it at this thickness.






The piece of aluminium I bought turned out to be too thick.
We don't have a milling machine so instead I mounted the aluminium in the lathe and used it to reduce it's thickness to 18mm
Not sure if this is a common practice but it seemed to work well.
Of course I could have cut and filed it by hand but that would have taken some time.






Next I marked out the bevel and curved end. The bevel has to be steep enough to clear the throat so as not to interfere with ejecting shavings but also not so steep that the tip would be fragile.






I cut the bevel and curve with a hacksaw.






Then used a disc sander to clean up the rough edges.






And the initial shape is done.






Next I used a router and 45 degree cutter to put a bevel on the curve.






Then returned the bevel part way down the sides with a hand file.






The router and disc sander left a lot of machine marks which I draw filed away.






I then gave it an initial sanding to remove any deep scratches that were left.

Back on the lathe I turned a 22mm collar out of brass.






And drilled a 10.7mm hole through it.






I'm adding the brass collar to the lever cap to give the thumb screw a little more metal to thread into.
I think it also adds to the aesthetics of the lever cap.

I centre the collar on the lever cap and temporarily fix it in place with super glue.






I centre punch and drill three 2mm holes through the brass and aluminium and add a very slight counter sink to the holes.






I then insert three steel pins to hold the collar in place.






Next I mark out and drill an 8mm hole through the lever cap. This hole will provide the pivot point to secure the blade once in place.






Next I cut down and crush the steel pins into the counter sunk holes using an engineers vice.






The steel pins have mushroomed into the holes, this secured the collar tightly in place.






I then filed away the surplus metal.






Then cut and filed a straight slot to the through hole. This will enable the lever cap to be fitted and removed from the plane.






I test fit a piece of 8mm rod to make sure the slot isn't too tight.






I might have to adjust the length of the lever cap later down the line but I wont know until its fitted to the plane and the blade is inserted.

More to do yet but time is up for another day.


----------



## AndyT

There's a good crop of ingenious metalworking techniques in this post on its own! Keep it coming.


----------



## gasman

I was sad when I saw you weren't making a brass lever cap but actually the aluminium one is going to be lovely. Agree with Andy lots of good metalworking and woodworking here. Best regards Mark


----------



## MikeG.

Bm101":3cp6y7hi said:


> .......When you are tempering a good piece of advice I received on here was to fill a foil tray with sand and put it in the bottom of the oven. It acts as a heatsink and raises the oven Temps above normal........



I don't want to be picky, Chris, but a heatsink can't raise the temperature in an oven above normal. What it does is slow the heating up and the cooling down processes. A heatsink put into an oven set at, say, 240C, will never get above 240C itself.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the support guys.

I was disappointed not to make it in brass too, at the time I just couldn't find an affordable piece in the size I needed. I could have bought I larger chunk for a lot more money but if it all went pear shaped it would be a massive waste. 
Apart from the brass sides this project hadn't cost much but time, I didn't want to spend a load of money as I honestly didn't know how it was going to turn out.

Looking at it now I actually like the contrast of the brass and aluminium and I can always try to make a brass one in the future if I find a bit.


----------



## Racers

MikeG.":3hj23wne said:


> Bm101":3hj23wne said:
> 
> 
> 
> .......When you are tempering a good piece of advice I received on here was to fill a foil tray with sand and put it in the bottom of the oven. It acts as a heatsink and raises the oven Temps above normal........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to be picky, Chris, but a heatsink can't raise the temperature in an oven above normal. What it does is slow the heating up and the cooling down processes. A heatsink put into an oven set at, say, 240C, will never get above 240C itself.
Click to expand...



Don't forget an oven regulates the temprature by keeping the power to the element on for longer or shorter times, so the oven temperature is higher than the food/blade.

Pete


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Beginning this evening on the lathe again, I started making the lever cap thumb screw.
Much like the tote I want the thumb screw to be larger than normal and a feature.
I machined a piece of brass down to 30mm and added a knurl.
I have to say machining brass on the lathe is a lot nicer than steel.






Next I machined the shaft down to 12mm and added bevels and shoulders to the top and bottom of the wheel.






I cut a thread on the shaft using a 12mm die. I used the tail stock of the lathe to hold the die square to the shaft, doing this helps make sure the thread is straight.
After the thread is cut I gave the thumb screw a light sand and parted it off.






Next I made the pivot rod.
I started by machining a piece of brass down to just over 8mm. I wanted the rod to be a tight push fit into the lever cap through hole.
this stage took a bit of time to get right as the fit had to be perfect. To tight and it wont go on, too lose and there will be too much play in the lever cap.






I then machined the other end of the rod to 10.3mm and put a 2mm bevel on the outside.







And here is the finished brass pivot rod. The 10.3mm end will get hammered into a corresponding 10mm hole in the plane body to fix it in place.






Next I drilled a 10.7mm hole through the aluminium and set up a 12mm tap in the pillar drill.
I started the thread using the pillar drill to ensure it was cutting square.






Then finished off the thread by hand.






And here is the finished lever cap, thumb screw and pivot rod. I still have to sand them to finishing grit and polish but that will come later.

Thankfully the pivot rod was a perfect fit onto the lever cap, it was worth taking the extra time getting this right.






I'm pleased with how the lever cap turned out. Like I mentioned earlier I may still have to shorten it's length slightly but I can do that once the pivot rod is fixed to the plane and I've got a measurement to go to.






That's another few evenings down. Time really is running away with this project but I'm still really enjoying it.


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## thetyreman

this is just amazing, the quality is outstanding =D>


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment and support thetyreman 

It's been a lot of hard work so far but I'm still really enjoying it.


----------



## AndyT

I can't be the only one on here who has thought I was making a reasonable job of making something, took some close-up photos, posted them online, then looked at them and saw lots of slips and errors.

I'm looking at this thread on a 21" monitor at the moment, feeling somewhat outclassed!


----------



## Bm101

With regards to the oven tempering with a heat sink, apologies for misremembering what was good advice when I was given it. Rather than clog up this excellent build wip I have asked a question with regards to it here. 
oven-tempering-using-a-heatsink-t120533.html

Apologies Hattori for the slight derail. Progress on this plane is a real joy to watch. I really don't want to get in the way with silly questions. 

Looking forward to the next update. Beats having an advent calendar!
Regards
Chris


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Honestly guys I cant thank you enough for the comments and support I really do appreciate them.

No worries with the other questions either Bm it's all part of the learning and I appreciate the help and tips.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the lever cap made I can drill the holes for the lever cap pivot rod.

I marked out and drilled an 8mm hole through the body of the plane.






I test fitted the steel rod and could see that the front part of the infill needs reducing so as not to obstruct the throat of the plane.






Next I counter sunk the 8mm hole on the right hand side of the plane and enlarged the left hand hole to 10mm






I then marked out and reduced the front infill using a block plane, approaching from both sides to avoid break out.
Maple is a beautiful wood to work.






With that done I could drill the three remaining holes needed to secure the front infill in place and the rear infill plus tote.
I marked out the holes and drilled them on the pillar drill.






I'll use 4mm brass rod for the front infill and rear of the tote then 6mm brass rod for the front of the tote.
(just noticed the sole of the plane looks terribly warped in this picture but don't worry it's just the distortion from the camera lens...phew!)






Here is the front infill and rod test fitted.






And the two rear rods test fitted.






I drilled the two rear holes with the maple infill fitted but with out the tote in place. Once the holes where drilled I then inserted the tote and marked the holes, I then offset the holes very slightly so when the rods are finally fitted they draw the tote downwards tightly onto the sole of the plane. It's the same principle as wooden draw boring.
Unfortunately I forgot to take pictures of this.

Next I marked out the taper on the edges of the plane body. I used a vernier gauge and blue marker to help show the lines.






The taper is 2mm onto the edge and 5mm onto the face. Here are the curves marked out.






I initially filed with a course file to remove the majority of the waste, being very careful not to file past my lines.
The curves where particularly tricky to file.






I then went back over the taper draw filing with a finer file.






I used a combination of needle files for the curves.






After both sides where done I gave them a light sanding






Another long stage, this part took a good few evenings to complete.
The initial waste removal is fairly straight forward but fine finishing takes a lot of time and patience. Cutting down to the scribe line and getting sharp corner transitions was very difficult.
I'm pretty happy with the finished taper, it really finishes off the sides nicely.


----------



## MikeG.

I wish I'd known you were doing this before I forked out £16 for brass filings on Ebay!


----------



## dannyr

Only trouble with this wonderful build is that it takes so long to scroll down to the bottom of the page to see the latest.
Hats off to a true craftsperson.
Also great to see the clever design and make choices you arrive at along the way - I wouldn't do it all the same, but then my finish and fit would be well below the level you're achieving, and you're doing it with basic tools.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks guys.

mike I just had a look on e-bay, didn't know brass filings where a thing. What do you use them for?
I'll start collecting them up if there any good to you, though I think it will take some time to fill a small bag 

Thanks for your comment Danny.
Apart from a few sketches at the start of the project and the idea in my head most of the processes I'm making up as I go, I've no idea if its the right or wrong way but it seems to be working so far...fingers crossed


----------



## MikeG.

Hattori-Hanzo":2gnnz561 said:


> ......mike I just had a look on e-bay, didn't know brass filings where a thing. What do you use them for?.......



Have a look here.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

It's been quite the journey so far, from a few sketches on a piece of paper.







To what's in front of me now. I'd spent one to two hours working on the plane in the evenings, Hard to believe there is over a months work in this little lot.






The finish line is in sight now.

With all the parts ready I can start to assemble the plane, no going back after this stage!

I start with the front maple infill.
I mixed up some Araldite in the plane body then inserted the infill






I add a little more Araldite to the pin and secured it in place.
Next I did the same for the rear infill and tote.






I hammered in the rear 4mm and 6mm rods to secure the tote in place.






Wonder wipes did an excellent job of cleaning up any surplus glue that squeezed out.






Once the Araldite had cured I cut off the surplus brass rod and filed it flush with the body of the plane.
I then inserted the brass lever cap pivot pin. The hole for the head of the pin is 10mm and I made the head of the brass pin 10.3mm so it was a very tight fit.







To secure the pivot pin further I used a pencil torch to heat the head of the pin






Then flowed soft solder into the counter sink.






I did this on both sides of the plane and on the 6mm pin securing the tote.

Once the solder had cooled I filed away the surplus flush with the plane body.
I would have liked to use silver solder for this stage but the heat required would have permanently burnt the maple infills.
The heat for soft solder is much lower so I could safely use it with minimal concern of burning the wood.






I then spent the next 3 years flattening the sole of the plane, did I say years? I meant days but it felt like years!
I fixed sand paper to the bed of our planer and worked the plane back and forth until it was flat.
The only part of the project I've not enjoyed, it was bloody hard work!






As if that wasn't enough, after that I flattened the blade and ground the final bevel.
I then sanded the blade with fine paper to remove any deep scratches left over from the hardening process.
The blade seemed to grind well so hopefully it will hold its edge.






Finally I sharpened and honed the blade, I use Autosol and a leather strop to get it razor sharp.






And that was me done, my arms, back and legs where shot, I needed a sit down.


----------



## MikeG.

All that and you didn't try to take a shaving!!!!! I couldn't have stopped there.

Did you consider putting a finish on the timber before you fixed it in place?


----------



## AndyT

MikeG.":2o50yv1a said:


> All that and you didn't try to take a shaving!!!!! I couldn't have stopped there.



Exactly!!


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Oh I was itching to give it a try but I still had some work to do on the lever cap to get it to fit properly and time had run out for another evening.

I did think about finishing the infill before fitting them but I knew flattening the sole was going to be a messy process( steel dust, sweat and wood not a great combination) and the surplus glue squeeze out could effect the finish, I didn't want to risk damaging the finish in the final stages of the build so I decided against it in the end.


----------



## MikeG.

The point about putting a coat of finish on first is that squeeze out and so on cleans off easier without leaving a stain.


----------



## sploo

MikeG.":26105tvn said:


> The point about putting a coat of finish on first is that squeeze out and so on cleans off easier without leaving a stain.


That makes sense to me, but whenever I've seen (videos or forum posts) of people making infills, they always finish the wood after gluing it in. I guess you might want to do some final shaping or levelling of the wood to the plane sides.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Good point guys. If it was something I was sure was 100% finished and wasn't going to work on any more I would pre-finish the part before gluing.
Like you said the finish should resist any staining from the glue.

Like sploo says I wanted to sand the infills perfectly flush with the brass after gluing , regardless of how well I fitted them prior to gluing and the way I had draw bored the brass pins meant they where ever so slightly misaligned.


----------



## D_W

sploo":2o9gga6n said:


> MikeG.":2o9gga6n said:
> 
> 
> 
> The point about putting a coat of finish on first is that squeeze out and so on cleans off easier without leaving a stain.
> 
> 
> 
> That makes sense to me, but whenever I've seen (videos or forum posts) of people making infills, they always finish the wood after gluing it in. I guess you might want to do some final shaping or levelling of the wood to the plane sides.
Click to expand...


Yes, finish after putting the wood in the plane. Usually, the wood is fitted within a couple of thousandths. You fit it and install it. 

If there's a need to grind the sides of the plane, or the sole, you do it with a mock infill cut to fit and then to dispose of. 

Finish that gets on metal parts as a part of the process (french polishing, or whatever it may be) is easy to sand or scrape off of the metal.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Now the majority of the work is done on the body of the plane I can start to final finish each part.

I started with the lever cap.
I used wet and dry paper starting at 800 grit and sanding up through the grades to 2000 grit.






Once I was happy with the sanding I used Autosol metal polish and a buffing wheel to polish the lever cap to a shine.






Tedious work is sanding, Always moving the paper in the same direction to avoid cross scoring, gets tricky when there are curves.
Finishing each part of the plane is going to be a long process, there where a good few hours in the lever cap alone.

With the lever cap done the plane is finally ready to take its first shaving.

I fitted the blade and screwed down the lever cap, adjusted the depth of cut and pushed through a piece of Tulip wood.
A shaving was instantly produced but I could see as the plane travelled along the shaving was not clearing the mouth.

A little adjustment was needed with a file, fortunately I could just get a file in between the pivot pin.

The smallest amount needed to be removed from the infill and a few passes with a file was sufficient.






I loaded in the blade and had another try.






A beautifully fine shaving was produced and ejected from the mouth perfectly.
The finish left on the wood was immaculate and required no further sanding.






Tulip wood planes nicely, I'm yet to try the plane on some harder wild grain timber but for an initial run I'm very happy.

I noticed that when tightening down the lever cap there was a little lateral movement in it which I wasn't happy with.
To combat this I decided to add two Allen bolts on the side of the cap.

I marked out and drilled the larger hole for the head of the bolt then drilled the smaller hole for the thread.






Next I tapped the hole






And inserted the bolt. I used a little ptfe tape to help hold the bolt in position.






Then wound it in so the head of the bolt was just protruding out of the hole.






I repeated the process for the other side.






The heads of the bolts fit firmly against the insides of the body when the lever cap is inserted which has eliminated the lateral movement as I had hoped.

Next up is sanding, lots and lots of sanding...


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the plane now working (and a big sigh of relief) I can start to final finish the body.

I sanded the maple infills flush with the brass body then sanded the tote, front knob and edges of the brass sides up to 500 grit. Another slow process.






I then used fine line tape and masking tape to cover any part I didn't want to be lacquered.






I gave the plane 3 coats of polyurethane lacquer, not a traditional finish but I like its feel and durability.






After the 3rd coat I cut down with 1000 grit wet and dry paper to smooth out any roughness and key the lacquer






I then apply another 3 coats. The lacquer really brings out the natural beauty of the wood.






I'm going for a satin finish so once the lacquer had dried over night I cut back with 2000 grit wet and dry paper then use 0000 wire wool and soft paste wax to finish.






With the wooden parts finished I started on the brass sides.

I want a brushed look to the brass, I sand them with wet and dry paper up to 800 grit.
I use the bed of the planer again for it's flatness.
I'm trying to achieve a brushed look, its critical to sand in perfectly straight lines. Any deviation results in squiggly lines which you then have to sand out. I used the fence on the planer to ensure I was sanding in straight lines.






The sanding leaves the brass looking quite dull so I used Brasso to add a little shine back to it.






sparingly use the Brasso then buffed to a light shine.






With that the body of the plane is almost done. I've still to fix the front knob in place but I've decided to add an extra collar of brass under the aluminium just to give it a little more contrast from the wood.

More to come.


----------



## Bm101

Just a lovely thread to catch up on. 
Like a hot dinner after working in the cold. Roast leg of lamb with garlic, roasties, and red wine. A hot sauce to cut through the fat. Keeps getting better as you go.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Sounds delightful Bm whats for desert? :mrgreen:


----------



## Tony Zaffuto

Simply beautiful and build along is a terrific Christmas present to us!


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks guys. Really glad you are enjoying the thread.
Last update before Christmas, hope you all have a good one. Eat, drink and be merry!

Next I returned to the blade.

From the beginning of the project I wanted to add a makers mark to the plane which is normally placed onto the blade.
I researched as many methods of doing this as I could and after weighing up the pros and cons decided Electro etching might work out the best.

Again this is something completely new to me and I was uncertain if it was even going to work how I wanted it to, or if I could even achieve it.

I started by designing a mark in Photoshop. My initials and my daughters name.






I'm fortunate to have a friend with his own laser cutter. Its not powerful enough to etch steel but can cut a perfect stencil.

I'm using black vinyl wrap for the stencil and after a few tries and creating a small fire inside his machine we get the settings dialled in for a perfect cut. (He wasn't happy about the fire!)






Unsure of how many attempts it would take me I asked him to cut a few to practise with.






I cut one of the stencils out and stuck it to an off cut of steel.
Using an old 12 volt battery charger I connect the positive wire to the steel and the negative to a cotton bud that had been dipped in a salt water solution, 1 part salt to 4 parts water.

I then moved the cotton bud around the stencil holding it in place for 5-10 seconds before moving on to a new part. Changing the cotton bud regularly as it starts to blacken and burn.
after 15 minutes or so I removed the stencil.






I ran my finger over the mark and disappointingly it had not etched at all but only left a burn mark through the stencil that was now rubbing away with my finger.
I'd done something wrong and my first guess was connecting the positive and negative incorrectly.

So after changing them over and another 15 minutes later I removed the stencil and to my surprise it had worked and, worked far better than I was anticipating!






Happy with the results It was time to try it on the real thing.

Good placement of the stencil was important. After a few attempts I got it where I wanted it.






I stuck the stencil to some masking tape and carefully removed the backing.






The masking tape helps to place the stencil and once stuck down is removed. I then masked out around the stencil to prevent any salt water etching where I didn't want it to.






I spent more time etching the blade as I knew the steel was harder than my test piece and I wanted a deep etch. It took around 35-40 minutes






Removing the stencil the etch is looking good so far, there is a little water bleed through in parts.






With the stencil removed you can see the etch is darkened by the burnt salt water and cotton bud.
I used fine wet and dry paper to clean it up and remove the water marks.






I then used a tooth brush and some Autosol to clean the burn marks out of the etch. Once I was happy I gave the blade a quick polish too.






I'm absolutely delighted with the results, I never expected it to come out so well.






While I'm sure the mark isn't to every ones taste it means something to me and I'm really happy with it.






It's also another process I've learnt through the making of this plane which I'd never know about in my day to day work.

The plane really is starting to take shape now, there isn't long to go.

Merry Christmas all.


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## AndyT

This is not just inspirational, it's fully detailed and clear for anyone wanting to try the technique for themselves. Thank you!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Andy


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hope you've all had a good Christmas and maybe got some new shiny tools to play with.

It's back to the grind stone now.

With all the hard work that's gone into the plane so far I thought it would be a good idea to make a box for it to live in.

I Didn't want any thing too traditional looking. I wanted something with a modern twist so people are unaware of whats inside.

I had an image in my mind which involved an irregular octagon, and with that I set about making it.

I started by Ripping up some Birch plywood to the required dimensions.






Next I set up a spindle moulder to 22.5 degrees and ran the edges of the plywood through.






I then trimmed the plywood to length and used masking tape to join all the pieces together.






I applied a healthy amount of glue to the joints






And used the masking tape to hold it all together.






Finally I add ratchet straps to pull the joints up tight.






I cleaned off any surplus glue with a damp cloth and left it to dry overnight ready for the next stage tomorrow.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the outside of the box made I started work on the plane holder.

The plane will be secured in the holder and the holder will slide in and out of the box.

First I cut out and shaped the sides.






Then rounded over the edges on the router.






I cut out the bottom and front for the holder.
I then cut a dovetailed groove on the under side of the bottom, then glued the bottom and front to the sides.






While that was drying I cut out some guides that are the same shape as the ends of the plane.






I then glued the guides to the bottom of the holder. The plane sits tightly between them.






Next I cut and fitted the front and back of the box. The back will get glued in place to the box while the front will be fixed to the holder.






Here you can see how the holder slides into the box.
I fixed a dovetailed rail to the bottom of the box that corresponds to the groove on the underside of the holder.






Lastly I set up the spindle at 45 degrees and ran a chamfer around the ends of the box.






All that's left to do now is sand it up ready for paint.


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## Brandlin

I just had a very inspirational and relaxing hour or more reading this whole thread.

Thank you for sharing.

It is always wonderful seeing a craftsman work, especially paying attention to the details. I'm a serial wood butcher at best but found your process here mesmerising and inspiring, even though i shall never have the inclination to make my own plane.

The box however, I may nick!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment Brandlin I really appreciate it. 
Glad you are enjoying the thread.


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## galleywood

How deep is the etching on the blade?
I am wondering if the etching method is a good way to set out a design, for a branding iron or leather stamping tool, which could them be made deeper by more conventional means.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I wondered the same thing Galley.
It's hard to tell exactly how deep the etch is, maybe .3 to .5mm in the deepest place.
Though longer etching does make for a deeper etch you might start to lose the definition of the design especially if it was a more intricate design.

I doubt you could go much deep than half a mil but I might be wrong.
Would that be enough for a leather stamping tool I don't know, I've never done any leather work but am interested to learn.


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## galleywood

I think somewhere in the range of 1.0 to 1.5mm would be required - I have not made a stamp yet.
I am hoping etching might be a good way to get things going.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I would be interested to know if it does work. 
If you do decide to give it a go let us know how you get on.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Continuing on with the box, I needed a way to lock it so came up with a simple latch solution.

I started by cutting a piece of steel flat bar and inserting a small length of brass rod which I had cut a thread onto one end.
The brass rod fits through a hole in the front of the box.







With my last bit of brass I machined a round handle and threaded the centre of it to fit onto the brass rod.
I also made the catch out of another piece of steel flat bar.






I filed a small bevel on the front of the catch, it then gets screwed to the inside of the box.
Ignore the screws sitting proud, this was just a test fit.






Next I cut the lever to length and filed a corresponding bevel to the under side, I also cut a slot for a spring to hook onto.






With the front of the box fixed to the plane holder the lever can be inserted and the spring fixed to it.






Twisting the brass handle on the front of the box raises the lever, the spring then pulls it back down.
The bevels on the lever and catch are to let the lever rise and full into the notch in the catch with out any input needed on the handle.
This means the box will lock on it's own when the holder is pushed shut.






Lastly I added a small steel key pin to the brass rod to stop it spinning in it's hole.
And finally gave every thing a sand and polish.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Now the latch is completed I could finish the box.

I fitted and glued the back of the box in place then sanded every thing to 500 grit.

The inside and slide of the box are going to be clear lacquered while the outside will be painted. I used masking tape and paper to cover the external of the box so as not to get lacquer on it.






Next I applied 4 coats of lacquer to the inside of the box and the slide.
Leaving 10 minutes between coats and lightly rubbing down with 1000 grit.
The wood burner was lit so drying time was quick.






Once the inside of the box was dry I removed the masking tape and paper.
I want the grain of the birch wood to show in the paint so I used a brass brush to open the grain.

I then applied 1 light coat of black paint.






I left 10 minutes before applying another coat.






2 coats was enough to cover the wood, I didn't want to apply to many coats as the paint will start to fill the grain.
I've still to lacquer the box but will do that once the paint has cured over night.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the black paint now dry I could start applying the lacquer.

I sprayed 3 coats of lacquer onto the box leaving 10 minutes between coats, no need to rub down this time.






Once the lacquer was dry I started to cut it back with wet and dry sand paper.
I sanded from 1200 to 2500 grit.






With the entire box sanded to 2500 grit I could start to polish it.
I'm using Farecla g10 finishing compound and a medium sponge buffing pad to bring back the initial shine.






Once I was happy with that stage I used super resin polish and a fine sponge pad to get a gloss finish.






Lastly I applied a coat of Dodo juice for a little extra shine and the sweet smell of Carnauba wax











With the paint work done I fitted the brass handle and lever catch to the front of the box.
I also added some Velcro strips to secure the plane in place when in the box.






Finally I cut and fitted foam to the inside of the box just for a little added protection for the plane.






Other than adding some rubber feet the box was complete.






Lots of work went into the box but I'm pleased with how it turned out. Getting really close to the finish now.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the box complete I could add the finishing touches to the plane.

I started by making the brass collar to go under the front knob, this was purely for aesthetics as I thought the transition from cherry wood to aluminium to brass looked nicer.
I forgot to take pictures of this but here it is fitted to the plane.






Finally the plane was complete. I took a few hours to clean and wax every part before reassembling.

When I started this project I didn't realise how far it would take me. I've learnt so much along the way, so many new skills and techniques that I can develop further.
I've probably gotten more enjoyment from making this plane than I will using it, (if I use it!)

Its been the combination of 4 months in the making and over 100 hours work.
It's been quite the journey of late nights, hard work, concentration, patience and ups and downs.

I'd say I'm 90% happy with the end result, there are a few things which let it down but for a first attempt at a metal body plane it far exceeded my expectation.
I think it's important to constructively critique your own work and people have told me I'm my own worst enemy but the day I make something that's perfect is the day I've lost myself.

Thank you for all of the messages along the way, I really appreciate every one.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so I'll stop my rambling now and just show the finished plane, there's a lot of pictures!

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I hope you've enjoyed following the project as much as I have making it.

I'm going to miss having the evenings back to my self, won't know what to do!


----------



## Inspector

You made a very beautiful tool and should be justifiably proud. If there was anything that should be different it would be a nice leather handle on the top of the box. My clumsy nature would have it slip out of my hands only to crash to the floor. Not a concern I suppose if you have tree frog fingers and nothing escapes your grip. I tip my hat to you.

Pete


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## Brandlin

Hattori-Hanzo":3kzd1hkm said:


> I think it's important to constructively critique your own work and people have told me I'm my own worst enemy but the day I make something that's perfect is the day I've lost myself.



Well said


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## AndyT

It's a gorgeous plane and a clever box, but let's see it at work! We want shavings!


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## Hand Plane

For someone who claims
"The only trouble is I've never done a day of metal work in my life."
that is a staggering piece or work. 
A great WIP - which takes a great effort itself - and a pleasure to see. Many thanks..

If you had made two planes (!!!!!), you could have one on display as a work of art, and the other for use!


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## Dakotapix

Hattori — That’s an incredibly, beautiful piece of work. Even your storage case makes me want to redo the quick cases I made for a couple of sharpening stones. Guess I’ll have to redo them now after your inspirational work. Thank you very much for sharing.


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## sammy.se

Excellent work, and thanks for the thoroughly enjoyable WIP. You are very talented! 

The plane (and box) are beautiful. 

I hope one day I can try something similar.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## MickCheese

Wow! That's amazing. Fantastic write up too.

Congratulations.

Mick


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I can't thank you enough for all the kind comments it really is nice to read after all the work that's gone into the plane and box.

I'm absolutely chuffed with how it has turned out. It wasn't something I jumped into head first, like I mentioned earlier I'd been considering making a metal plane for some years and put a large amount of research into it before starting. I can honestly say this is the first time I have taken raw metal materials and turned them into something. I had absolutely no clue at the start how it would turn out.

After spending hours cutting out and filing the first dovetails the moment they came together I thought to myself "okay that's gone better than expected, this might just work" and from that moment on it all seemed to flow.
I'm not going to lie it was a lot of hard work but I found working metal really enjoyable, cutting and filing while slow compared to wood was just as rewarding.

I've learnt so much from making the plane too, making the blade and heat treating it was a first for me. While heating it in our wood burner seemed to work okay I've since been looking into tin can forges so might have a go at making one of those next.

Brass is a lovely material to work with too, I really enjoyed turning it on the lathe and knurling was a fun experience and one i'd like to try again.

The box was kind of an after thought. I knew if the plane turned out well I wanted to make a box but I didn't start thinking about it until the plane was near completion.
I then had this idea in my head about an octagon shape and it all evolved from that. 
A neat leather handle on the top is a great idea, I hadn't thought of that and it would definitely add some much needed function to carrying the box.

Again thank you, thank you for all the kind messages.

I'm itching to get stuck into something else now


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## Sawdust=manglitter

A lot of work went into this, its a beautiful plane. I think i’ve randomly happened across your videos of making this plane from last year, it’s been added to my watch later list on the tube 

https://youtu.be/6EG49OTYHns


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Ah the cats out of the bag, I wondered if any one would stumble upon my video and recognise it.

Don't watch any of my other content if you don't want spoilers to the next project. 

As you've probably guessed I'm playing catch up with this thread but didn't want to put all of the posts up at once as there is a lot, I thought daily or every other day was a better way to do it. 
It was also nice to respond to comments and feed back after each stage of the build rather than bombard you with the entire thread at once.

I'm going to continue to update this thread until I've caught up but I'd like to carry on doing so stage by stage so I can respond to comments and critique along the way.
I hope you all continue to follow this thread and enjoy it.

Cheers.


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## thetyreman

wow what a great looking plane, would be good to see it in use as andy T says.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thank you tyreman, hold that thought update incoming...


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I made a short video demonstrating the box and plane in use, there are also some short clips of some of the making processes at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAc3UonpC60

Not sure how to embed youtube videos, is embeding not allowed?
[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]


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## AndyT

Happy to help!
Just put the video number on its own between a pair of <youtube> tags like this:



Code:


[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]

 and it shows up embedded:

[youtube]eAc3UonpC60[/youtube]


And thanks for showing some shavings - it does look very nice in use!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Andy ccasion5:


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":1162mtqk said:


> ........ It wasn't something I jumped into head first, like I mentioned earlier I'd been considering making a metal plane for some years and put a large amount of research into it before starting. I can honestly say this is the first time I have taken raw metal materials and turned them into something. I had absolutely no clue at the start how it would turn out.......



Well, Hattori, I too am in awe (& envious) of the result of your very first attempt at an infill. I thought I was a bit foolishly ambitious with my first attempt by going for a "coffin" shape, but you've shown us that aiming high is just fine as long as you go about it well-prepared with a bit of research on the topic! My first plane took years (literally) to complete and although it is a fairly good 'user', it does have some flaws that are obvious to anyone who's made a plane or two: 





I started that plane before the interweb & forums like this had reached their stride, and my 'research' was limited to a few magazine articles, so I was flying by the seat of my pants. I also opted for a 55 deg. bed, and added a cap-iron (making it was another learning-curve), which is of debatable value for a high cutting angle like this, but I was also ignorant of the subtleties of cap-irons back then. :? 

The worst thing about making a workable plane on your first try is that the slide into addiction is steeper. I've made quite a few more planes since #1, and gotten a little bit better at it, but perfection so far eludes me. One of my problems down here is the availability of suitable brass. The only alloy that is readily available in Oz (in sizes suited to plane-making), is a machinable grade that does not take well to cold-forming. The grade you used is far better, and should take the amount of peening required for dovetailing & riveting very well. This is a comparison of the 'machinable' grade (C38500) with H62, which is the Chinese equivalent (roughly) of CZ 108: 




The 385 (on left) started flaking & splitting after very little hammering, while the H62 could be pounded out to a thin sheet with no sign of failure. Fortunately, the way plane dovetails go together, you can make sure most of the metal moving is done with the steel & not the brass: 




I've used both mild steel & gauge-plate for soles. Gauge-plate is far nicer to use because it comes clean & accurately dimensioned. Both peen nicely; I expected the O1 might work-harden if hammered hard, but it doesn't seem to mind at all. It is better to file than mild steel, imo, because being slightly harder, it doesn't crumb as easily as mild steel does (is that what D-W refers to as "pinning?). There is nothing quite as annoying as having a large crumb jamb in the teeth of the file as you are getting close to level, and making a deep score-mark across the brass surface!

Anyway, great to see folk are still beavering away at infills, & even better to see examples that don't slavishly follow traditional shapes (like mine :roll: )
 
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Ian thank you for a very informative post and for the tips on brass grades and steel. I too found out the peining problems with different grades of brass which will become apparent soon. It was just sheer luck that I ordered CZ108 brass for my first plane and only later found out it is best for cold forming. It is now the only grade I would consider for plane making.

Your plane is stunning! what wood did you use for the infill? it has lovely figuring.

I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out. Like you say I've been bitten by the bug for sure.

Thanks again.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Also, it didn't take me long to start a new project!






Thanks for all the comments on the last one chaps.


----------



## rxh

Hattori-Hanzo":2sda1h3q said:


> I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out. Like you say I've been bitten by the bug for sure.
> 
> Thanks again.


I made the bend in this cap iron by heating the end with a gas blowlamp then clamping it in the vice and thumping with a lump hammer.


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":7adjbab4 said:


> ....... what wood did you use for the infill? it has lovely figuring....



A wood that will be unobtainable in your part of the world, I'm afraid. The early colonists called it "She-oak", meant in the derogatory sense, i.e., that it's inferior to genuine oak. It's proper name is _Allocasuarina torulosa_. It's a very dense wood, with a very prominent medullary ray figure, as you noticed, rather fissile & difficult (& slow!) to dry in large sections, not easy to work, but rasps & sands to a very fine finish. It has a lovely tactile quality like the Rosewoods, which is why I like using it for all sorts of handles: 



Hattori-Hanzo":7adjbab4 said:


> ....... I'd like to have a go at making a cap iron too but not too sure on the best way to achieve the bend. I had thought about some other ways to make one but they are just ideas at the moment, I'm waiting for the right plane to try one out...



I've seen a few ways of going about it - the method rxh just posted is one way (with or without heating). After considering my situation, I decided to try a fairly crude approach. I'd just acquired a small 'stick' welder, so I cobbled up this jig: 




As you can see, I was having much trouble sorting out my amperage! It's pretty ugly, but it does the job. The bars are 13mm & placed 32mm apart, and the loose "dolly" is a scrap of 3/4" brass (I've since found a scrap of 7/8" steel that I use now). The dimensions were sheer guesswork, but seem to fit the bill nicely. 

My preferred material for cap-irons is ordinary (308?) stainless steel, 3mm is ok, but 2.5mm is my preferred thickness when I can get it. It easily tolerates the amount of bending required without heating : 








The pics should be self-explanatory.

Setting it up in the vise for the bend takes a bit of fiddling, if you are like me and only have two hands. Tying it up with duct tape is my solution. This is a bend for a skewed iron being set up: 




After bending, I clean up the inside of the bend on the grinder, and bring the outside of the bend to the desired angle by filing. I started only making single bends, but with thick (3mm) cap-irons, you get a bit too much flexing of thin blades, so I tried doing a 'double' bend to make something more like the old Stanley/Record examples. It turned out to be easier than I expected. This is the finished skewed iron (before drilling & tapping for the screw): 




Oh dear, I was hesitating to encourage your addiction, but I think you are well & truly on the slippery slope. Let's just say you are being warned by a fellow sufferer....


----------



## MikeG.

Hattori-Hanzo":3hq71n06 said:


> Also, it didn't take me long to start a new project!..........



Don't suppose you could save up all of the brass chippings/ shavings/ dust, could you?


----------



## sploo

Some stunning work here gents - many thanks for documenting it for us to see.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the tips on the cap irons chaps. I'd though of something similar to your method Ian so may give it a try in the future.

rxh that cap iron looks great, what thickness steel did you use for it?

MikeG I can try to save the filings but not sure if they would be any use and most likely to be mixed with a load of wood chippings too 

Thanks for the comment sploo 

Finally Ian wow! that is a beautiful collection you've made. You must be very proud of them they are stunning. How many years of work is there?
I thought that infill looked a bit like oak but it's figuring was slightly different, its a beautiful piece though.


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":19sc079s said:


> ...... How many years of work is there?......



Hattori, I started my first infill about 2000, but due to difficulties with the build and work pressures, it languished for long periods at various stages & didn't make a shaving until about 10 years later! I made a couple more over the next few years, but kept being dragged back to my old day job, until I managed to achieve full retirement about 3 years ago. The pace has picked up since then, and between making planes for myself & others, I've gotten a bit slicker at it, but it still takes me a lot longer to make a plane than Spiers or Norris would have allowed any of their workers! :wink: 

So your build was pretty quick by my standards. I think it's terrific that not only did you manage to make a good working plane first up, but you made your own, unique design. A couple of planes I've made have no exact precedent, but you can easily se the genetic make-up. I think anyone who's been thinking about making a plane or two should be inspired by your thread & get cracking..

I'm currently working on a (skewed-blade) panel plane myself, in between other, more pressing jobs. The body is banged-up & I'm waiting on some wood for the stuffing. It's a ways off completion yet, but I'll do a post on it when I get it to the first shavings stage, and can be confident it's going to work. My main concern is fitting the skewed lever-cap. Fitting any lever cap is a bit fraught, you only get one go at it, but the skew adds some extra frisson! :| 
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## rxh

Hattori-Hanzo":3ctz6bl3 said:


> rxh that cap iron looks great, what thickness steel did you use for it?


Thanks - it is 3/16" thick. Here is a photo of the plane it went into and its construction is described in this thread:
infill-smoothing-plane-project-t69460.html

I congratulate you on your excellent work and the very comprehensive description of it. I'm looking forward to seeing your next one.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Wow! another beautiful plane, the dark red colour against the rich brass is striking. Not had a chance to read through your thread yet but am definitely going to set some time aside at the weekend to do so!
thanks for sharing it's excellent.

Ian I'm looking forward to seeing your skew mouth plane. I've thought about making a shooting plane with a skew mouth/blade but realise it's quite an undertaking so will hold off for now. got too many other projects to get finished first 

talking of other projects here's a little sneak peek so far, there has been a lot of filing and I've not even got onto the steel work yet!

End dovetails





Bridge cupid bow, only half done.


----------



## IWW

Looks suspiciously like an embryonic mitre plane . :wink: 

OK, thanks to some rainy weather (at last!) driving me into the shed, the pace is picking up somewhat on the panel plane, so there may be shavings to show before too many more days pass....

Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

I have a feeling you may have used one before 

Finally finished the bridge.











I'm really pleased with how it turned out. I can start to assemble the body of the plane now.






I've still got the sole of the plane to make yet and there is a lot of work involved with that, even more so than the body.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

I've started work on the sole and its tough going! I'm using O1 tool steel this time round.






These are the initial cuts that start to form the mouth. There was a lot of filing involved after.

Here you can see the sole is made from two pieces of steel with the mouth cut into the left hand piece and the relief cut onto the right hand piece.
There is also a V joint which aligns both pieces together. I think traditionally this would have been a tongue and groove joint but I thought a V joint would be easier. As it turns out it was just as much if not more work!


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Finally the sole dovetails are nearly done. I could at last do a test fit of the sole onto the body.
Getting the two pieces of the sole to align and make the dovetails a tight fit has been a pain staking task.
It was a case of fine adjustments to each dovetail with a file then test fitting after each try.
All I need to do now is fine adjust the depth of the dovetails to get the sole to seat flat, again lots of test fits until it's right.






The split dovetail with the mouth opening had to be a perfect fit. Too tight and it will distort the body, too loose would cause gaps in the V joint and play in the mouth.






Amazingly it's come out really well with a mouth opening of just under 1mm.
I may have to open this up a little yet but I'd like to keep it under 1.5mm if possible, the finer the mouth the finer a shaving it should produce but too small and the plane won't take a cut at all.






I've still to shape the sole and a few other things but after that is the dreadful task of peining it all together, Wish me luck.


----------



## MikeG.

Hattori-Hanzo":1a6fml2z said:


> .........the finer the mouth the finer a shaving it should produce......



I'm not so sure about this. All it does, I reckon, is prevent the plane taking a thicker shaving. It doesn't make the same blade setting take a finer shaving. That's my reading of the situation, anyway.


----------



## D_W

If you bed the plane properly and have something around 3/2 times the shaving thickness in clearance, it'll function fine. 

I have an infill that I made with a 3-4 thousandths mouth a few years ago. It works wonderfully for shavings up to about 2 thousandths and then resistance increases quickly for obvious reasons. It wasn't a miter plane, just a single iron smoother. Using it in actual work next to an older norris with a double iron and a bigger mouth makes it evident why the makers didn't use mouth only to control tearout - it's too limiting, but it's expected on a miter plane as a display of making skill and it makes using the plane on the ends of tiny bits much more predictable (the larger the mouth, the larger the catch you can have on the end of something).


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the input chaps. Agree with both of you, I've got my wires crossed and worded this totally wrong.

Blade protrusion sets depth of cut and in turn shaving thickness, which should be the same regardless of mouth width but am i right in saying a tighter mouth gives a cleaner cut and aids in tear out prevention, especially on end grain?

As i understood it a tighter mouth prevents the wood fibre from "shearing" just ahead of the cutting iron thus reducing tear out and blade chatter? but increases resistance and limits thickness of cut like you've mentioned. 

Cheers.


----------



## MikeG.

Tear out on end grain? That's a phenomena I have never come across. Does it actually happen?


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Whoops bad wording on my part again, I've got to stop replying late at night (hammer) 

Phenomenon indeed I've never seen it either .


----------



## D_W

MikeG.":1s2gsi7g said:


> Tear out on end grain? That's a phenomena I have never come across. Does it actually happen?



Miter planes are probably more commonly used on long grain, veneered surfaces, or any other fine work where a fine plane mouth would be appreciated. On marquetry, you definitely wouldn't want a large mouth on a plane. 

They're older than other metal planes and were probably used a lot more widely (for more things) before infill smoothers. The size of them makes it so that they're not that great for trimming end grain on their sides unless the wood is really favorable (like mahogany). 

That said, a plane with a fine mouth works better even on end grain than a plane with a large mouth. I've made both types, and those with a fine mouth are better behaved when shooting. 

Couple that with the fact that they would've been used in small fine and detailed work and it's clear if what you're doing is very small (trimming small parts or sizing a thick veneer), a fine mouth is a good idea. Above all, when you find an older tool that was made for professionals (and not current hobbyists who struggle to saw a straight line), it's wise to copy the tool first and speculate on what may not be necessary later.


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## AndyT

A friend who knows more about planes than I ever will reckons that mitre planes appeared at about the same time that veneered furniture became fashionable, and that the name is a poor clue as to their intended use. Complex patterns made from lots of little bits of sawn veneer needed to be planed smooth, without tear-out regardless of grain direction. Thinking of them as veneer planes fits with what D_W has just written and their comparative rarity.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for your insight guys it's interesting reading.

I had always thought mitre planes where used as described, mostly for planing end grain. It makes sense they where intended for very fine work with their small mouth opening.
I had also thought that they were a small plane around the size of a block plane but I've since seen some larger ones around the size of a jack plane.
Was there a common size or where they all different?


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## AndyT

A Spiers catalogue of around 1900 listed mitre planes from 6" up to 10 1/2". I think about 8 or 9" is commonest.


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## D_W

Hattori-Hanzo":157rxlhq said:


> Thanks for your insight guys it's interesting reading.
> 
> I had always thought mitre planes where used as described, mostly for planing end grain. It makes sense they where intended for very fine work with their small mouth opening.
> I had also thought that they were a small plane around the size of a block plane but I've since seen some larger ones around the size of a jack plane.
> Was there a common size or where they all different?



They predated metal smoothers, too - by several hundred years. I suspect that our thoughts about their use is in the context of the library of planes that we have, but we need a different context. 

I'm not much for studying planing history unless it's about something right in front of me or the difference is stark (like this - the difference is stark vs. our visions of laying a plane on its side and trimming end grain - but it hasn't encouraged me to look much further as I use a stanley plane to do most things - or an infill equivalent (metal with double iron and no steep bed). I have made an infill shooter (which works fabulously), but also don't usually use it unless there's a specific reason to. What little furniture making that I do, the doors are usually M&T and the ends of the sticking are sawn off or the mark is made short of the end where it counts. 

I think most users these days haven't grasped that all planes work well on end grain and they will cut effectively much longer with wood in a vise and the plane sitting on top of it than wood laid down and the plane also laid next to it. 

(I tested irons earlier this year and found a well hardened O1 iron capable of about 850 linear feet of planing in endgrain and leaving an acceptable surface in all). 

Hopefully, you get a chance to use this one on very fine work as they were intended!!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks guys, really appreciate your contributions to the thread. I'm enjoying reading about the history of these planes and found an article about them here Amazing how far back they date.


I've taken some short video clips of the progress so far and started to put them into a video.

It's nothing fancy, just sped up clips and a few short descriptions of what I've been doing along the way.
Might be interesting to some of you.

[youtube]eqrZ54j7x-s[/youtube]


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I've started making the wooden infills for the plane. I've gone with Wenge as I had a spare piece from another job, its very hard and dense so should make nice infills.
It's really tough on tools mind, blunts saws and chisels in no time.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

The plane is coming along, both infills are made and I'm just working on the wedge now.

Got to wait for the tool steel to arrive then I can start making the blade.

[youtube]wpwwTmMCm4M[/youtube]


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Got the wedge finished today just have to sand it up. I managed to work a cupids bow into the bottom of it too which I think complements the bow in the bridge nicely.
Wenge dust leaves a really nasty taste in my mouth so mask on when sanding. The more I look at it the more I like wenge, I wasn't overly keen on it as first but I think it's rich deep colour works really well with brass.

I'd love to get my hands on a really nicely figured bit of Cocobolo or Zebrano to use as an infill, I think that would look stunning in a plane.







The tool steel for the blade has arrived so I can continue with that soon too.
It's 4mm thick O1 tool steel.






Uploaded video Part 3 for any one following.
In this part I finish filing the body of the plane before making preparations for bending it to shape.
Then nearly giving myself a hernia I start to bend it.
I was given this brass by a colleague and it started as L section which I cut into flat bar. It's 6mm thick and unfortunately I have no idea what grade it is (which comes back to bite me, I'll explain later) so as you can imagine it was pretty tough to bend.

[youtube]jKKCucKSnqI[/youtube]


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I've made a start on the blade. It's tedious work, endless hours of flattening and sanding.

I decided to have a go at a snecked blade, I was unsure if bespoke makers mill down a thick piece of steel to form the sneck in one piece of steel or if it is two pieces joined together.

I had no way of doing the former easily so opted to pein the sneck onto the blade






I was pleased with how it turned out, still a lot more filing and sanding to do.






but before that I etched my mark onto it

This blade is narrower than the last so I asked my friend if he could laser me some new stencils which he kindly did.

I wasn't sure how well it would turn out as the stencil was half the size of the last one but thankfully it came out really well again so I'm pleased with that.






And again for any one interested part 4 has just gone up.
In this part I start to assemble and pein the body of the plane together.
I also make a start on cutting the mouth and blade bed into the sole.

[youtube]_fmTWtGp0VQ[/youtube]


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## gasman

Its lovely work. And great videos - but I am confused. The way you are putting the videos up one at a time implies the project is ongoing - but I watched all the videos on YouTube end-to-end last week??


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment Gasman, glad you enjoyed the videos.

When I started to make the first plane I also started a thread about it on another forum which I would periodically update as the build progressed. 
Towards the end of that build one poster recommended this forum to me as I'd not come across it before, so I signed up and started this thread copying over my posts from the other thread.
I enjoyed making the first plane so much that I started on this one and started to make videos as well. (another suggestion from a poster)

As the plane progressed I updated that thread with the videos but also pictures and text too.

To keep continuity with the other thread I though it be best to gradually update this one as if it was an on going project, I'm still updating the other thread so was wanting to catch this thread up to it at which point my posting amount will drop dramatically as I'll be up to date on both threads and only posting with "new" content.

I didn't want to bombard this thread all in one hit as there was and still is a lot of content.
I also thought it would be nice if any one had questions or critique about a certain part of the build I could answer them in the relevant part of the thread.

Thanks again for your comment, hope this made sense :?


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## Hattori-Hanzo

The plane is starting to take shape now. 
I've been busy with my daughter over the last few weeks, she's finally learnt how to crawl so is keeping me busy!

The body of the plane is pretty much complete other than a final bit of finishing, I've added a bevel to the top edge to make it a little more comfortable to hold.






And both infills are made and dry fitted, I won't be fixing them permanently until near the end of the build.






Part 5 has just gone up.
In this part I file the mouth of the plane and V-joint which holds it in position. I also finish cutting and filing the sole dovetails as well as adding the cupids bows.

[youtube]NZpjQVQzFn4[/youtube]


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## sploo

Hattori-Hanzo":2jv10v9l said:


> To keep continuity with the other thread I though it be best to gradually update this one as if it was an on going project, I'm still updating the other thread so was wanting to catch this thread up to it at which point my posting amount will drop dramatically as I'll be up to date on both threads and only posting with "new" content.


And there was me thinking you were putting in massive shifts in the garage every evening :wink: 

Still bl**dy brilliant work though, and great to see.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks sploo.

Unfortunately I don't have time to do long sessions on it though I'd like to.
I try to do an hour or so an evening depending on how the day has gone.
The first plane took around 4 months to finish, the second was slightly quicker.

It's just nice to be doing something new and different.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

In part 6 I start to pein the sole and body of the plane together.

This is where the unknown brass type comes back to bite me. Unlike the Cz108 brass I had used for the first plane, which deformed nicely and spread into the bevelled dovetails this uknown brass sheared, shattered and broke off as I was peining.

Fortunately I had left enough surplus brass to partially overcome this problem but it did leave a few gaps in some of the dovetails which was disappointing.

Learnt my lesson and will be back to using Cz108 from now on!

[youtube]ivUZYFu8Y1Y[/youtube]


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":atjpwvgr said:


> .......This is where the unknown brass type comes back to bite me. Unlike the Cz108 brass I had used for the first plane, which deformed nicely and spread into the bevelled dovetails this uknown brass sheared, shattered and broke off as I was peining......



Know the feeling well! My very first attempt at making dovetails was fitting the front piece on a shoulder plane I was making. I was even more ignorant of metallurgy then & didn't even know there were different grades - I thought brass was brass. The alloy I used was *not *good for peening & I ended up with a gappy mess. So I filled them with solder, thus rendering the gaps even more evident!

I can see how you got into trouble Hattori - the continuous-side construction requires the tails to be pushed down between the pins, so they had to be straight-sided, of course. That leaves big gaps to close, alright. I get away with using the less-ductile grades on a 'normal' plane because you can cut the brass tails to a very close fit and they require very little peening to tighten them in their sockets, but with the style you are making here, you have no choice but to end up with big gaps to close whichever way you make the pins & tails. In hindsight, you may have been better off cutting the steel to let the tails though, then filling the gaps with the more ductile steel.

We learn something on every job! It's good to bring these things to everyone's attention - it should help to make the path smoother for others...  
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment Ian. I too was totally ignorant to the different grades of brass and it was only by sheer luck that I bought Cz108 for my first plane.



> It's good to bring these things to everyone's attention - it should help to make the path smoother for others...



Couldn't agree more. In my research similar threads where the inspiration for me to give it a go, I hope this thread is the same for someone else.

Part 7 has gone up.

I start making the wooden infills and wedge in this part.

[youtube]cHspVfFK6kE[/youtube]

I've also made a start on the box for the plane.
I wanted to go more traditional with this one so it's going to be a simple dovetailed box with a lift off lid.

Fitting the first dovetails.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Another update for any one still following.

Part 8 is up. In this part I start to make the blade, cutting it from a blank of O1 tool steel, shaping and finally heat treating it.

[youtube]6cPGE4O0WlE[/youtube]

I'm coming to the end of the build and video footage now, Just a couple more parts to go.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With this plane coming to an end and the fact I enjoyed making it so much I've started on another Mitre plane.
Very similar to the current one only almost half it's size.

Once bent the body will be about 4" long






I wanted to challenge myself and Go for as tight a mouth opening as I can possibly achieve. To give it some perspective that's a 0.7mm pencil lead.

No doubt I will have to enlarge this latter down the line but I wanted to start small and make the necessary adjustment once the plane is almost complete.





While it was the same grade brass (Cz108) as my first plane it seems to be peining a lot nicer, it is 1mm thinner though.
I also found this odd piece of stainless steel from a previous job that's acting as an anvil. It's working out so much better than hammering on top of the engineering vice and the proper anvil who's top is in need of some well over due TLC.






Lastly a sneaky shot of the current plane. Think I have one more video to make and that will complete the series.






I've just uploaded video 9 as well.

[youtube]Pav4pSto6Rw[/youtube]

Dan.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I've had some spare time to my self today so finally managed to finish the last video in the series.

It's a long one to finish so I'll start with the pictures.

I made the box from Iroko and finished it with a dark mahogany stain. I lined the box with Tulip wood.






I added a faux suede liner to the box to hold the plane in position.





















The dark Wenge contrasts the brass nicely I think.






Thankfully my makers mark came out well, I was a little concerned it being a lot smaller this time.














































I was pleased with the peining of the sole dovetails, there where a couple of imperfections but on the whole it went well.





















I also added my initials to the underside of the front infill, Makes it hard to remove that way.






And the final video is here.

[youtube]pQ98xiif5w4[/youtube]


Cheers.


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## AndyT

Magnificent!
You are clearly paying close attention to all the tiny details and striving for perfection.

I can see that you have studied Bill Carter's work and mentioned him a few times, but I wonder if you have met him in person?
He's really open and approachable and loves to see other makers learning from the information he readily shares.

PS - Box and photos are none too shabby!


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## MikeG.

I don't want to be too picky because this is quality work and something I have never even thought of attempting, but those unfilled Cupid's arrow dovetails just look odd to me. If you don't have a way of filling them, have you thought about just having plain orthodox (but properly filled) dovetails?


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Andy.
Funnily enough Bill's videos where some of the first I found when researching how to make metal planes and it was his planes and techniques that inspired me to have a go at making mine.

I've not met him in person but when I was making my first plane I e-mailed him for some advice and was honoured to receive several e-mails back with all my questions answered. He even made a recent video answering one of my questions which was brilliant of him.

I'm pleased to say we have carried on contact and he's informed me that he frequents the David Stanley tool Auctions and he would be happy to meet me there, unfortunately it's a long distance from me but I certainly would like to meet him one day and see his planes in person.

Like you say his willingness to share his skills and knowledge is amazing.

Thanks for the comment Mike.
It was Bill's planes again where I first saw the "open" cupid bow dovetails and I really liked them. 
He has even made planes with the detail going around the entire top edge of the plane.

I can appreciate they may not be to every ones taste and agree that they would look stunning filled but I'm not sure it's easily achievable with brass, I've not seen it yet.

I have seen them filled on a plane that used bronze sides.

I think the difficulty with brass is as its soft the steel would deform the shape of the bow when peining and you'd be left with a horrible mess.
Bronze being a lot tougher would hold up to the peining process better. I'd like to try it in bronze to see for myself but it's a *lot *more expensive than brass and would be a dreadful waste if it all went wrong.

I may pluck up the courage to try them in brass at some point but like I say I'm happy to see them left open as well.

Cheers.


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## AndyT

Thanks, that all makes perfect sense. If you can ever find a chance to go to one of the Stanley sales, that would be the perfect way to meet Bill - he's been going to them all, since they started and is a well-known part of the scene. His table always has a selection of interesting planes and is a natural place to gather for collectors, enthusiasts, makers and people who just like a natter and a piece of Sarah's home made cake.


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## IWW

Yes, I first saw the 'open' dovetails on Bill's work, too, but am in the "don't like" camp. They look a bit too contrived and precious to my eye, but beauty is in the eye of beholders, and we are all different (thank goodness), so all power to you for the courage to follow your own tastes and extra merit points for executing them so well!

Knowing how difficult it is to peen the more brittle brasses, I'm most impressed by how tight you got those D/Ts - you had a good bit of metal to move, so I imagine you had at least a few moments of panic?! And I have to say, you are coming along at an exponential rate with your plane making. When you said you'd had no metal-working experience before starting the panel plane I found it hard to believe, but your rapid development shows us you are simply a 'natural'.  

As to "filling" the bows, I think it would be pretty difficult too, but you might get away with it better than you think. I'm always surprised at how neat & straight the brass/steel edges are when I file off the beaten-down steel pins. My peening is a lot neater & more efficient now, but back when I did my first couple, they looked like a right mess by the time I'd finished hammering away & I thought I'd have wavy edges on my tails, but they all filed-off to leave pretty straight lines. I'd be inclined to make a practice bow with some scrap steel & brass & beat it up just to see how much distortion you do get. Now that you're a journeyman peener, I'd reckon you can move the steel with a fair degree of precision, so that you cause minimum distortion of the brass. You'd probably have to allow another mm protrusion of the steel to make sure you've got enough to push up into the centre point of the bow. A lot more peening, and a lot more filing to clean up - don't think my shoulders would like it!  
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the reply Ian much appreciated.

While I'm really happy with how this plane performs, it takes a super shaving and is a joy to use on a shooting board I am disappointed that the dovetails didn't fill fully.

I think I over did the angle on the double dovetail and as you say had a lot of material to try and push over.

You can see from this photo the gap at the side of the steel pins.






In one of Bill's videos he explains that on early mitre planes the dovetail angle would be minimal and on some it would almost be vertical.
I've tried to accentuate the dovetail by using a steeper angle but this was probably my downfall.

My peining also leave a lot to be desired, the brass I used on this plane didn't help and the thicker 6mm sole was difficult to manipulate.
It's amazing the difference 1mm makes to peining.

Like you say when you stand back and look at the plane body after peining its a worrying mess, at least mine was 






but when all is done and you start to file away the surplus amazingly it all starts to come together.

I'd definitely like to try and fill the bow and the extra peining practise would be welcome but I need to finishes these other projects first too 

Cheers.


----------



## IWW

Just looking at the pictures, the gaps don't look too horrendous, Hattori, but they are big by the standards of a separate-sided plane where you can cut the dovetails so they are a tight fit. You had to end up with a wide gap at the tops of the tails because the only way to assemble was to push the sides straight down. I can't see any other way to do it, and presume that's how all continuous-side mitres were done. I've often thought of making a mitre plane for the fun of it, and have always wondered how I'd handle a continuous side. How did you mark out the pins on the sole, for e.g.? It's obviously not possible to scribe them directly off the sides. The only way I have thought of is to make a long cardboard template that I can use to lay out both pins & tails by wrapping it around the sides, then opening it out o lay out the pins on the sole. 

I had some big gaps to deal with on the panel-plane I made from the kit. It came with sides & soles pre-cut, as I mentioned earlier, but the cutting was very rough: 




The person what done the cutting also thought back-to-front from the typical way of cutting the pins & tails, the "tails' were cut on the sole: 




I would have cut the existing mess off completely & started over with fresh tails & pins, if there had been enough spare metal, but there wasn't, so I battled on. It was made all the more difficult because there were no scribe-lines to work to, it was all guess, file, & try 'til they fit. The amount allowed for peening was also very skimpy, so I had some anxious moments closing some of the larger gaps. Like your plane, it all turned out better than I expected, given the battle I'd had, but certainly not perfect. I am still chasing the perfect job and I'm up to plane #15. I've come close, but there have always been one or two little visible lines or pin holes that didn't fill properly. I hope to complete my apprenticeship one day!



Hattori-Hanzo":d1lrtrrx said:


> ...... In one of Bill's videos he explains that on early mitre planes the dovetail angle would be minimal and on some it would almost be vertical.
> I've tried to accentuate the dovetail by using a steeper angle but this was probably my downfall.....
> 
> ......It's amazing the difference 1mm makes to peining........



Yes, you sure don't need much of an angle for the dovetails to hold together very securely. As I said earlier, the angle is more for visual than structural effect. For an all-steel plane, I'd make the angle very shallow, and file a 'notch' in the corners of the tails, like this: 




On one small plane I was making, I forgot to file a chamfer on the brass tails on one side. I'd started peening when I remembered. #-o I had hardly begun to fill any of the gaps, so I thought I'd wriggle them apart. But no way were they going to separate without risking severe distortion, so I just hammered them up as they were. After I'd finished & filed off the waste, I was amazed to find I could not easily pick the side that I'd not chamfered from the side I did! Both have quite distinct angles when viewed from the sole side.

As long as all the gaps are filled, it doesn't matter how wonky the notches are for an all-steel body. I notched the pins on this plane far more than necessary (a conclusion I quickly came to when hammering them up!) but you can't see any of the notches, just a couple of faint lines where the shoulders of a couple of tail sockets weren't as tight as they should have been.  




I think there's an ideal amount of extra metal one should allow for peening. To little is obviously disastrous, but you can also have too much. You've allowed what looks like close to 3mm on your mitre plane, whereas I rarely allow more than 1.5 mm (although with big gaps to fill like on those straight dovetails, I might have added another .5 or so). If there's too much extra metal (& this applies to rivets as well), it's hard to get the metal to come over evenly & fill the whole gap from the bottom up. It's too easy to pound it over so the gap _looks _closed, but after filing off, you discover nasty voids. Took me a few planes to figure this out & learn to judge the right amount. It's as much art as science because it depends on the actual metals you're working with as well as complications like curving sides when a pin falls on a bend......

But it's all god fun. I think you are learning much faster than I did - I'd give you top marks for all your efforts so far (at least what you've shown us - surely you've made a few good blunders along the way?!  )

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers Ian.

Just to clarify the gaps at the top of the dovetails are only filed 1 -1.5 mm deep to create the "double dovetail" effect.
Beyond that the dovetail is straight. Difficult for me to explain but these pictures show what I mean.






You can see that if I had not filed this material away the dovetail would be vertical.






When peining, this gap gets filled to create the look. This is what I was referring to when I said I had over done the angle.

Here is a picture before I filed it away. 






You can of course keep them vertical but adding the double dovetail adds to the mystery of how the joint comes together.
This is where Bill says on early mitre planes only a very shallow angle was added.

EDIT....
Just reading your post again and I think this process is what your referring to as a "notch" on one of your planes?

For marking the pins I placed the completed body of the plane on top of the sole and carefully scribed around each pin.






Because the bottom of the pin is a straight cut this is the easiest way to transfer them over.



> I think there's an ideal amount of extra metal one should allow for peening. To little is obviously disastrous, but you can also have too much





> If there's too much extra metal (& this applies to rivets as well), it's hard to get the metal to come over evenly & fill the whole gap from the bottom up. It's too easy to pound it over so the gap looks closed, but after filing off, you discover nasty voids



I think you're absolutely right and this is exactly the problem I had. 
I think I left too much metal to peen, it looked as though the gaps where filled but in fact the metal had rolled over and left a void right on the join line.

Definitely going to reduce the amount of metal for peining next time. Like you say 1.5mm should be about right.

As for blunders, there has been many! but like you say its how you get over them that really gets you thinking.
"The man who made no mistakes made nothing at all"


----------



## Bm101

Huge steps up the learning curve just by reading the interaction between you both. Many thanks to the pair of you for sharing so much hard won knowledge.
Great stuff.
=D> 
Chris


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":3sho2dja said:


> ...... EDIT....
> Just reading your post again and I think this process is what your referring to as a "notch" on one of your planes? ...........


Not exactly, Hattori, what I was referring to is a distinct notch, with very little, if any bevel (the distortion caused by peening will give the impression of a bevel). You probably need to register to see pictures, but this old thread on the 'Ubeaut' forum had an excellent article on making a bench rebate plane: https://www.woodworkforums.com/f44/wip- ... rass-80588?

Unfortunately, it lost most of the pictures due to a glitch during a programme upgrade, but post #13, which is the relevant one, still has its pictures. The author of the thread is a hugely knowledgeable chap when it comes to metalwork & tool history in general - if you haven't seen his website it's well worth a look when you have a bit of time: http://www.petermcbride.com/metal_plane_making/

Thanks for the explanation of how you marked out the sole - simple & effective!
As you say, adding the bevel from below adds to the mystery when you have contrasting metals to display the joints.

And your end quote is something I say to beginners very often. I once asked an old friend, who was way ahead of me in all sorts of manual arts, and a very skilled turner, "When do you stop making mistakes?" He replied "Dunno - I still make plenty". Learning is lifelong, as they say.... :wink: 

Chris - I'm learning from the exchange too! There's always some little angle or idea one can glean by reading other people's build posts. Like a way to mark out the dovetails on the sole of a mitre plane.....  
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Tealeaf

Absolutely stunning work there. So impressed, it was a great way to spend 5 minutes reading the post while drinking some tea..... and that 5 minutes turned into a hour as the thread completely absorbed me!

Great skill, thank you for sharing.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the messages guys, really glad you're finding the thread interesting.

Thanks Ian for the link on the relief cuts in the dovetail, it's all starting to make sense now.....at least I think so 

and thank you for linking to Peters site, that's my evening sorted.
I have seen his planes come up on image searches but could never put a name to them, now the mystery is solved.

Cheers.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Getting towards the end of my next plane.

Another mitre plane which is a little smaller than the last and I've had a go at making a brass lever cap as well.
Not the easiest thing to make, lots of hand work involved but the hardest part was drilling the centre hole square through it.
Our pillar drill is old and seen some abuse over the years, it has a fair amount of run out, couple that with drill bits that always want to wander it's not the ideal set up.

I made a wooden template to start before cutting the brass.






Lots of hand filing to define the shape.






Then lots of sanding to clean it up.






I then polished it to a mirror finish.






I also made the thumb screw but I might make another one as I think it wants to be a little larger. Quite pleased with how this turned out though, it was my first attempt at shaping the head of the thumb screw. I did it on the lathe by eye with a half round cutter I ground from an old bit of blank steel. 






Here's a size comparison to the last plane.






First dry assembly of the plane. I managed to get hold of a small piece of box wood for the infill.
My first time using it, nice to work but hard as old boots. Has a lovely creamy colour when first sanded but I'm guessing this will darken quite a lot.
Just need to work on the blade now.






I'm really pleased with the peining on this plane, it's the best I've achieved so far.
The thinner brass and O1 tool steel where a lot nicer to work.
As mentioned previously I halved the amount of surplus material for peining and it definitely made a big improvement. 






I'm going for a high polish on this plane so lastly I spent a lot time sanding and polishing the body.











I'm going for a 6mm thick blade on this plane which is going to be a lot of work, cutting, shaping and then hardening the blade is going to be a challenge.

I don't think our wood burner is going to work so well on 6mm so next I'm going to make a simple forge and give that a try.

Still a fair bit of work to do yet.

Also a little video of the lever cap.

[youtube]gP3fRIfEO-E[/youtube]

Cheers.


----------



## IWW

Hattori, you're cranking these things out so fast I can't keep up!  

It seems strange to me now, but the lever cap was my biggest worry when I was thinking about making my first infill, I was only half as worried about peening the pins & tails. I was stuck on the idea that all the LCs I knew about were cast, it didn't occur to me that one could just take a lump of brass & sculpt a LC from it. But one day I wanted a LC for a small plane I was making & decided to give it a go - turned out to be not only far easier than I'd expected, it gave me more satisfaction sculpting that LC than making the rest of the plane. My first attempt was far less elegant than the one you just made, but once I grasped the idea, it didn't take long to make them look a bit more professional.

You need to save some pennies for a decent drill & machine-vise, I think. :wink: Wandering drill bits are also caused by asymmetrically- sharpened bits. Small diameter bits don't have to be off by much to send them a-wandering in a long-ish hole. I have a drill sharpener that does a fair job on bits from about 3 to 8mm, but for critical operations I keep a set of new ones in the most regularly-used sizes. 

But why not avoid the problem? I seem to be the only one using screws as axles of my LCs, & wondering if there's some good reason why I shouldn't. I did this on my first infill because I had only a vague idea of how I might rivet the LC into the plane without pinching the sides down & making it too stiff to function properly. So I came up with the idea of using a couple of "cheese-head" screws. It looks quite neat & has worked with no apparent problems to date. One advantage is you only need to drill about a 15mm hole from each side (+/- depending on size of LC & plane), which makes it easier to get the holes where they should be, and I've been thankful a number of times when I had to pull the LC out for one reason or another. With the screw heads flushed to the sides, it looks neat enough, I think: 





Your peening looks flawless on this plane, and I see you are starting to play with some more decoration. Are we seeing the next Karl Holtey emerging here??  
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## D_W

I also screw lever caps in. I don't have a mill or a mill drill, just a cheap press (like really cheap - bench top, $150 or so). I have always located holes on infills and drilled from both sides. freehand (not with the press, but by eye with a cordless drill). the reason for this for me is probably different than most - if you are a hand tool woodworker, you can learn to see square and plumb very well, so I find usually only a tiny step where the holes meet, and my oldest planes now are 10 years old, and no ill effect. 

But inability to drill across spans accurately leaves me using screws just as shown in the plane above - they are readily available, all you need is to be able to tap the lever cap and the need for precision drilling in the lever cap is relieved. Tuning the lever cap and bed to be tight and even on the iron so that the plane adjusts perfectly is also made a lot easier.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments guys.



> Hattori, you're cranking these things out so fast I can't keep up!


Ian, don't worry I'm not getting any quicker. I'm still catching this thread up.
There was about 3-4 weeks of work to the plane at this point.

Thanks for the advice about the cheese head screws chaps. I think they suit some planes more than others.
I do prefer the clean look on a peined over rod but have to say its suits your plane nicely Ian.

One of my main concerns with them is the stepped hole depth into the body.
Am I right in saying cheese head screws aren't counter sunk, instead they have a flat bottom?

How deep would you need to drill the hole in the plane sides to get the head of the screw flush?
and how do you go about drilling a flat bottom hole?
I've done it before by grinding a drill bit flat but it's not ideal.

If I were using 3mm brass for the sides and needed to drill 2.5mm deep hole to fully seat the screw head that leaves a very thin bit of brass holding the rest of the screw, or is this not a concern once the lever cap is fitted?


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":1sl800lk said:


> ......
> How deep would you need to drill the hole in the plane sides to get the head of the screw flush?
> and how do you go about drilling a flat bottom hole?
> I've done it before by grinding a drill bit flat but it's not ideal.
> 
> If I were using 3mm brass for the sides and needed to drill 2.5mm deep hole to fully seat the screw head that leaves a very thin bit of brass holding the rest of the screw, or is this not a concern once the lever cap is fitted?.....



Hattori, you are over-thinking & over-complicating matters. :? 

The heads of the screws become simple stub-axles, they go all the way through the side and abut the LC. The screws don't need to bear on the sides at all; once both screws are in, the lever-cap is effectively captured. This method does require the LC to be a neat fit between the sides, of course.

This sketch should explain all: 





No complex joinery needed. Because I make my own screws, I can make any size I want with any diameter & depth of head. But a typical M6 or M5 machine screw should suit a medium to large plane with 3.2-4mm sides. 
There is no compelling reason to have a larger diameter head on the screws. Before I had my lathe I just found bolts of the diameter I wanted that had a partial thread. Screw the bolt into the lever cap until the thread runs out, then cut it off so the unthreaded bit left sticking out is a little shorter than the thickness of the side. Neaten the cut by spinning the bolt in your drill and applying a file, then carefully cut a slot (a 'junior' hacksaw blade cuts a slot of an appropriate width for a fine-bladed driver). Simple, effective & you don't need a different diameter hole in the sides.

The aesthetic aspect is a purely personal matter. Rivets can be made to disappear, keeping the sides as one continuous & uninterrupted surface, but to me there's a functional beauty in seeing that I can easily remove the LC if the need arises. 

It has on only a couple of occasions, I'll admit.....  
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for clearing that up Ian, makes perfect sense now.

I will look into this method in the future as it certainly seems a good approach to take and like you say the ability to remove the lever cap for fettling is a bonus.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Also in other news I started work on the forge today.






Just got to wait for it to fully dry for a week or so which is okay as I haven't even started on the blade yet.


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## marcros

can we have some details on the forge?


----------



## D_W

A paint can or coffee can (anything around a gallon in liquid size) lined with refractory blanket and a TS4000 type torch is enough to heat and quench 1/4" thick O1 irons as large as just over 2 1/2". 

It's actually a pretty good efficient setup that doesn't take much space and doesn't take long to heat. For practical purposes, the iron that I did in a skew shooter is probably only fully hardened an inch and a half from the tip, but I'll never use that much, and if I do, it can just be reheated and quenched.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

> can we have some details on the forge?



Video incoming.

Like D_W says It's an old paint tin cleaned and washed out, I then drilled 4 holes and inserted bolts to act as legs.

Next I mixed fine builders sand with plaster of Paris and water to make a thick paste.
I filled the bottom 2 inches of the tin with the paste then inserted a plastic bottle in the centre to form the hole while packing the paste around it.
I also added a steel tube to the side which accepts a map gas torch.

After 10 minutes or so the plastic bottle can be removed and the tin left to dry for several days before use.


I had some time to make a new thumb screw for the lever cap, while I liked the first one I thought it maybe a little to small as I wanted the screw to be a dominant feature.

Really pleased with how the second one came out.


I managed to accentuate the dome and point more on this one.






And also added a round from the thread into the cap head.






Side by side comparison of the two.






I've also made a start on the blade.

I'm using 6mm O1 tool steel which could help to reduce chatter but it looks quite chunky for a smaller plane.
I've managed to taper the blade from 6mm at the cutting edge to 4mm at the heel, aesthetically I think this looks a lot better and also aids comfort when holding the plane.






And a short video explaining it all and the forge.

[youtube]Vs_vtIWtSaE[/youtube]


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## Bm101

I like that screw. The way the cone retains it's shape through the top cap bit looks distinctive in an understated way. Smart.
First effort is probably best sent to me along with the relative tap size and I'll make sure it gets binned. 
:-"


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Haha  sorry BM it's gone into the "that might come in handy later" drawer for the moment.

Just a quick video on how I heat treated the blade for this plane.

[youtube]7m4J_4V8v3k[/youtube]


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## Bm101

Lol. Fair play! 
I've got a bronze casting from Bristol Designs sat on my desk that I can't justify starting really. Far too many other (real life) things to do. But it keeps winking at me! Especially when I read this thread. The only thing I can't do in my shed is the screw so when I finally get it started I'll put it up as a paid job on here. Or buy an old screw cutting mini lathe. *manic laughter*
No. That's not going to happen. Definitely. 
:-s


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## Hattori-Hanzo

When you need one send me a pm, if it's not been used its yours.


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## Bm101

That's _really_ kind but it could literally be years lol. I have a bullnose to finish but I'm on thin ice to get the house done well before I restart that one. It really was a tongue in cheek joke, not a request.  
Many thanks anyway. You are very kind. 
:wink: 
Regards
Chris


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the blade nearly finished I've started to work on the wooden box for the plane.

Here's the box in the early stages. I'm using some nice European white Oak with beautiful medullary rays which should show up nicely once polished.






And here is it glued together with the tulip wood lining, I've got a few ideas I want to try out so still a bit more work to do yet.






The plane is nearly finished I've just got a lot of sanding and polishing to do now.
I'm really happy with how this plane has turned out and the mouth is exceptionally fine, I need to find my feeler gauges to measure it properly.

I've also uploaded the second part of the plane blade videos.

[youtube]vgXv9RCOMEw[/youtube]

Almost ready for the final reveal!

Cheers.


----------



## FatmanG

Truly awe inspiring Dan, nothing else to say mate except thanks for taking the time to show us. This is you tube at its finest. =D>


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed the thread and videos.


----------



## AJB Temple

Really amazing work. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## IWW

As I said before, Hattori, you've come a long way quickly! Doing a bit of background reading probably helped, but I reckon you've displayed a lot of natural talent & a capacity to learn quickly. If you keep up this pace you really will be in the Holtey class before long...  

Interestingly (to me, at least), I have just been reading Jim Kingshott's book properly for the first time. I've seen a few of his articles & some excerpts of the book, but hadn't read it 'til now. I wish I had read it a lot sooner! It would have helped me avoid some of the mistakes I made as I blundered along my own path. I recommend reading it to anyone thinking of getting into plane making, he's eminently practical and gives you choices of approach depending on your skills & access to gear. There's still lots to learn, of course, and skills to develop (like accurate peening), that only come by doing. It tickled me to see that I have independently figured out a few of the things he mentions . Convergent evolution at work.... 

So, onwards & upwards...!
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Honestly thank you so much for the comments guys I really do appreciate every one.

I still think my planes and techniques are light years away from Mr Holtey but I can aspire to his standards and workmanship.

Thank you for the recommendation on the book too, I will certainly check that out.

I feel like I want to try something different for my next project so watch this space 

Thanks again all.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Finally I finished the Mitre plane and box.
I spent a couple of hours taking some photos and video.

The box is made from European white oak with Walnut dovetail keys.

01





02





03





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05





06





07





08
I added some Cedar curls for their lovely smell every time you open the box





09





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11


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## Hattori-Hanzo

The mitre plane is roughly 6" long and made from Cz108 brass and 01 tool steel.
It has Box wood infills.

12






13





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15





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19





20





21





22





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24


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

And finally a size comparison to my last mitre plane

25





26





27





28





29





30
The last plane is starting to take on a nice patina





31






[youtube]HwJF3AdZ9-I[/youtube]

Thanks to every one who has been watching and liking this thread and the videos, I welcome any comments constructive or otherwise.
cheers
Dan.


----------



## sploo

Absolutely superb - the plane and the box.


----------



## rxh

Excellent work. I like the detail for securing the lever cap - is it your idea?


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Sorry for the late reply chaps I've had a pretty tough month.

At the start of Feb I received the devastating news that the family run business I had worked for the last 18 years had gone out of business.
Myself and colleagues, one of whom had worked there for over 30 years where all shell shocked. It was an incredibly sad day to see it all go.

Thankfully with the help of family and friends I have been extremely fortunate and managed to find another job. 
Furniture maker positions are sparse around here but I have settled into a new role with a small team of cabinet makers.
Fingers crossed it works out, having a mortgage and 1 year old daughter to support it certainly has been a worrying time.

I had plans to make many more planes in the future but obviously this will be put on hold. All of my plane making tools and materials have been put into storage while I sort through the rest of my woodworking tools for what I'll need for the new job, as you can imagine after 18 years there is a lot of stuff to go through, don't think I'll need my Yankee screw drivers any more 

While the new place is equipped with some very fancy modern machinery there is no engineering lathe for me to play on, no engineering vices or tools, I need to settle in and figure out how I will continue with plane making. Again this wont be for a long while.

Thank you for the comment on my last plane @sploo

@rxh The stainless steel locking pin was my idea, I'm probably not the first person to do it but I've not seen it on another plane.
It's was needed to get over a problem of the lever cap coming loose over time when planing.
I put this problem down to the tapered blade and the clock wise rotation of the thumb screw causing the lever cap to push backwards thus releasing the blade.
I racked my brains trying to come up with something that would work and that didn't spoil the look of the plane too, in the end this simple solution won.

This was the last thing I made for myself at my previous work and the last thing I'll add to this thread for a while so I'd like to share it with you.

I'm very lucky and been given a small amount of Rosewood so I've made a start on the marking gauge.






Working on the main body on the engineering lathe.






I parted off a small section of brass and then fixed it between two nuts on a bolt and secured that into the lathe.
I needed to round both sides of the brass collar.
I'm sure this isn't the ideal way of doing this but I have limited tools and it seemed to work okay.







I needed a way to secure the brass head and collar to the wood as the glue was only temporary while I machined the initial shape and not sufficient to hold the pieces together permanently.

I carefully marked hole positions on the collar and drilled the holes, I then used a bolt to align the two parts and drilled the first hole through the collar into the wood. After the first hole was drilled i inserted a spare drill bit into the hole to keep it aligned and then drilled the second hole.






With the brass collar and Rosewood drilled I then repeated the process to drill the head of the gauge.






I've ordered some m3 stainless bolts that will run through the holes securing it all together, just waiting for them to arrive.
Once its all fixed together i'll mount it back on the lathe and final finish it.

In the meantime I drilled and tapped an m8 hole into the side of the brass head.






and then made the locking thumb screw.

Most of the thumb screws I've seen for marking gauges are short with a larger diameter but I wanted a longer sleeker looking one.
While doing so I found out I could knurl longer pieces of material, I always thought you needed an automatic feed on the lathe to knurl longer pieces but I hand fed this knurl and it turned out great
I still can't get my head round how this works and how manually moving the knurling tool doesn't just leave a mashed up mess but I'm pleased i can do it.






And finally machined a recess in the head for the cutter to sit into when not in use.






That was all for today.
Just waiting for the bolts and the steel rod to come in the post and I can make a start on the shaft of the gauge.....it's not going to be a simple shaft though.

Finally got the stainless steel tube and rod in the post so I could continue with the marking gauge.

I started by threading one end of the steel tube.
Quickly realised Stainless steel is a pipper to work with, it's very hard and can't be rushed.






After that I started on the micro adjuster which I'm making from brass, much nicer to work with!






I knurl a short section and drill out the centre to thread onto the stainless tube.

Then add some chamfers and part them in two ready to work on some more later.






I also made a start on the cutting wheel again from stainless steel.

I bevel the rod and then square off the end to a sharp edge.






And finally drill and counter sink the head to accept a bolt before parting off completely from the rest of the rod.






Going to try and harden the cutting wheel with my map gas torch and quench it in oil, like I do my plane blades but I'm not sure how well this with work with stainless?

I've still got to work on the inner shaft and the main head of the gauge but its getting there.



Slowly working my way through the marking gauge build, it's almost done and I've turned my attention to a box for it.

Totally over the top for a marking gauge but I'm keeping a theme going 

Using some American black walnut I Put a 15 degree bevel on some strips then glued it together to make a dodecagon.






Masking tape makes for an excellent clamp to hold it all together while the glue sets.






I glued all but 4 edges so I didn't have to split the box afterwards. I also added some ends to the box which I'm thinking of reinforcing later with some brass fixings, though not totally decided yet.







Next I made some liners for the box out of some lovely birds eye maple veneer.
Using some make shift weights to hold it in position while the glue dries.
And a test fit held in place with some quick cramps to see how it will work.






Once the glue has dried it holds the shape well, Next I'll fit it into the box using some bead to hold it in place.






That's it so far.

I've got to work out a base for it to sit on and a latch to keep it closed but I've got a few ideas on that.

Slowly progressing with box.

I made some inlay for the ends of the birds eye liners. I wrapped it around a circle of MDF so it holds the same diameter as the liner.






I've also made the brass clasps that the marking gauge will sit on inside the box.

Started with some brass round bar that I tapered at both ends.






Then drilled through to make the half rounds that will hold the marking gauge.






After some more shaping with hand files they are nearly finished.






Lastly I drilled and taped the bottoms to accept a bolt and polished them up.






Here they are test fitted to the inside of the box. I still have a lot of work to do sanding and cleaning up the box.






Finally I made a start on adding some decorative dovetail bows to the out side of the box, they will also aid in securing the ends of the box in place.






That's it for now.

Finally got the box finished tonight, I think in the end the box took longer to make than the marking gauge.

Spent the past couple of days polishing and waxing it.

I've got a few more bits to tidy up and I've got to strip the marking gauge down to degrease it all then I'll take some photos of the entire piece which I'm hoping to do over the weekend.

Here's a quick snap I took on my phone.







I've also been working on a short video of the build process. I didn't have time to go into as much detail with this project so it jumps about a bit but hopefully I'll get that finished with the photos.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

The marking gauge and box and finally done. I've really enjoyed making this piece though it took a little longer than expected.

Managed to get the photo's done yesterday.

The box is made from American black walnut, Maple and Birds eye maple.









































Here you can see some of the lovely figuring on the birds eye maple.













































The marking gauge is roughly 200mm long.










It's held in place inside the box by a brass collar which is fix in place by a neodymium magnet.
















[youtube]XKNTTJ1BUvg[/youtube]

Thank you all so much for the kind comments during this thread, I hope to be back with a new project in the future.


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## AndyT

Stunning! If you are going to go over the top, this is the way to go!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

Very sorry to hear your work bombshell though. Hope you find a way through it that makes good use of your obvious talents.


----------



## thetyreman

I think you could honestly do the planemaking thing for a living, I really am impressed with the high level of craftsmanship in your work, there aren't many with your level of talents, good news on the new job. =D>


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments guys it's really nice of you to say.

While I really enjoyed making these planes I don't think I have anywhere near the experience needed to produce them to sell.
It would be great, but I imagine it would be an extremely difficult path to go down to try and make money from full time.
The market for bespoke planes must be quite small and any one seeking one will go straight to a known maker like Bill or Karl.

I also think if I where doing it to a time scale it would suck all of the enjoyment out of it for me. I like to think I have an eye for detail and fairly high standards but the only reason I can achieve this to some extent is because I'm doing it all in my own spare time, no dead lines to meet, no compromise (until my mind starts thinking of the next project)
I also like to learn new things and skills, I've learnt so much from making these planes and enjoyed making them probably more than I will using them.

Saying this I had planed to try and design a unique plane for my next one, then make a batch of 3 and put the best one up for sale if I thought it was good enough.
I'd never get back the labour cost but I wouldn't really be doing it for the money more for that fact someone wanted something I'd made.
I'd make a terrible business man :mrgreen: 

It might be something I could look into doing on the side in the future, you never know whats round the corner.


----------



## Inspector

You do make a nice tool and you could sell some for some extra tool buying money. If you were to make three planes and sell two the money could go towards a lathe, milling machine, tooling for either, a small forge, heat treating oven or anything else you had a hankering for.

Pete


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Pete.

A small lathe of my own would be nice, I will miss experimenting with brass round bar, making thumb screws and the like. I;ll have to come up with an idea for square ones that look good.


----------



## IWW

Cheers, Hanzo - sorry to hear of your travails, but sometimes life's upheavals lead to a better situation, so let's hope that is the case for you.



Hattori-Hanzo":63gnrnvl said:


> ........... The stainless steel locking pin was my idea, I'm probably not the first person to do it but I've not seen it on another plane.
> It's was needed to get over a problem of the lever cap coming loose over time when planing.
> I put this problem down to the tapered blade and the clock wise rotation of the thumb screw causing the lever cap to push backwards thus releasing the blade.
> I racked my brains trying to come up with something that would work and that didn't spoil the look of the plane too, in the end this simple solution won....



I had a similar problem in how to keep my 'wedge levers' in place when using thumbscrews instead of a simple wedge. Adding a screw adjuster to a plane makes wedges a problem because they are much less convenient to loosen & re-tighten when you want to make adjustments to the depth of cut. My solution was to set a small cylinder of brass in the wedge under a thumbscrew through the bridge. It needed something to protect the wood anyway, but by making a divot in the brass it gives a positive locating point ensuring the wedge is in its correct position. I discovered after I'd worked it out for myself that Tom Norris used an almost identical solution on his screw-adjusted chariot & shoulder planes at least 100 years before ago! 




Whenever thumbscrews have to bear on a metal surface, having a rounded point on the screw minimises the slewing effect. 



Hattori-Hanzo":63gnrnvl said:


> ....A small lathe of my own would be nice, I will miss experimenting with brass round bar, making thumb screws and the like. I;ll have to come up with an idea for square ones that look good.



Yep, you can do a lot with a small lathe, and even cheap knurling tools will do a good job on brass. However, you are probably looking at a cost that is a bit out of reach in your present circumstances. I've got a couple of ways of making acceptable thumbscrews without a metal lathe. The one on the left was done using a bit of brass bar, a stainless steel bolt and a file - I think it looks presentable. 




You do need a tap, and a drill-press makes it easier to get the head drilled & tapped square, but it could be done without a DP. can do a post on them if anyone is interested, others may have even better ideas thay can add to make a useful reference.

If I were going to try to make a living out of plane-making, I would also invest in a decent milling machine to speed things up & take the tedium out of cutting mouths, for e.g. A good linisher could speed up the clean-up after peening, too. Going full-tilt, I think I could do a good plane in 3 days, so with overheads time & materials, it would not be a cheap product if I costed in my time at a sensible rate. 

I think you've shown that you have oodles of talent & the ability to solve problems, but there's a lot to running a successful small business. You'd also have to establish a solid reputation before you could charge enough to make a good living at it. Which all takes time, & meanwhile, you have to feed the family!  

My day job earned me far more than making planes or furniture would have, plus I'm possibly an even worse businessman than you are, so it was an easy decision for me to remain an amateur. I got to the point where I can sell my excess planes easily at a price which covers materials & overheads, and that suits my situation admirably as a retiree. I have no ambitions to become another Holtey or Carter (even if I had the talent!), and as you wisely said, working endlessly to deadlines quickly takes the fun out of a hobby....

All the best in your new role,
Ian


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Ian really appreciate your reply.

Your thumb screws look great. Interested to know how you created the groves, was it all just very careful filing?

Thanks for the tip on the divot too, I'll remember that for the future.
Funnily enough I did try rounding the bottom of the thumb screw which helped a little but still the problem persisted. I wonder if adding a divot to the blade would have cured it? trouble is the divot would have to be elongated to allow for blade wear.

Back to bridge and wedge I think 

Cheers.


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo":1zl9h7ha said:


> ..... Interested to know how you created the groves, was it all just very careful filing?......



For the long grooves, I made a shallow cut with a small hacksaw, then filed these with a 4" DEST file. The circular grooves were made by chucking the thumbscrew in my wood lathe, spinning it very slowly, and applying the file in the desired spot as it spun.



Hattori-Hanzo":1zl9h7ha said:


> ..... Thanks for the tip on the divot too, I'll remember that for the future.
> Funnily enough I did try rounding the bottom of the thumb screw which helped a little but still the problem persisted. I wonder if adding a divot to the blade would have cured it? trouble is the divot would have to be elongated to allow for blade wear.
> 
> Back to bridge and wedge I think  ....



Um, no, the divot idea only works on a wedge as shown, or at least some componenet that remains stationary as you adjust the blade depth. As you say, putting a divot in the blade for the thumbscrew would make adjustments rather problematical! Rounding the end of the thumbscrew is the best way of preventing/minimising slewing that I've come across, other than making a 'shoe" for the t'screw. That works very well, but they are cumbersome things that can get in the way all too easily...

Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Bm101

Firstly, sorry to hear you've had a rough time with work. Glad you have found your new situation and the mortgage is getting paid. 
I suppose few of us welcome drastic change but it's inevitable and I'm sure you've hit the ground running.

Fantastic work as always thanks for posting. It's a real pleasure seeing you progress and I hope you can find a way to continue presently.

@ Ian 
'You do need a tap, and a drill-press makes it easier to get the head drilled & tapped square, but it could be done without a DP. can do a post on them if anyone is interested, others may have even better ideas thay can add to make a useful reference.'

Yes please! =D> 

What a cracking thread this has turned out to be. 
Regards as always
Chris


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Chris.

I do hope to continue making these sorts of things in the future. 
I had a few ideas for other tools that I'd liked to have started, so fingers crossed :?


----------



## FatmanG

Hattori-Hanzo":ix7cqf0q said:


> Thanks Chris.
> 
> I do hope to continue making these sorts of things in the future.
> I had a few ideas for other tools that I'd liked to have started, so fingers crossed :?



You really do need to continue making. Amateur or professional is only a term given, in my eyes your planes are stunning as good as I've ever seen. I truly hope your situation settles down so you can continue to thrill us forumites with exceptional quality threads and craftsmanship.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thank you for the comment FatmanG. I'm still very eager to make another plane just need to settle in and see whats what for the time being.



> For the long grooves, I made a shallow cut with a small hacksaw, then filed these with a 4" DEST file. The circular grooves were made by chucking the thumbscrew in my wood lathe, spinning it very slowly, and applying the file in the desired spot as it spun.



Thanks for the description Ian, sounds straight forward but I bet its much more difficult in practice to get just right.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hello again all.

It's been a long while since I've made a post, I think it's fair to say its been an "interesting" year for most if not all of us.
I've settled into my new role though I am missing the variety that my old job offered, I don' think I can call myself a furniture maker anymore, I get looks of disdain if I pull my shooting board out rather than use the chop saw and don't mention my yankee screwdrivers (I jest)

My partner has also been affected by the pandemic and a few mouths after me was also made redundant. Again very fortunately she has managed to find work which is a huge relief. 

I hope every one is doing okay and I hope this settles down soon so we can all return to some form of normality.

The passion to make tools is still burning within and I had started a new project only weeks before I was made redundant which had obviously been put on hold.

Thankfully I have had the opportunity and drive to start the project up again and thought I would share it with you.

Around the middle of last year I discovered Skelton saws and after hours of searching I was blown away by the ingenuity, quality and design of Shanes saws. I've not had the pleasure of seeing one of his saws first hand but I must have watched every video and seen nearly every photo. His work really is exceptional.

In particular I loved the look of his gents saw. A bit rich for my pockets but it sparked a desire to try and make my own, so late last year around October/November I started to make a pair of saws based on his but with my own interpretation. I planned one to be rip cut and the other to be cross cut.

I started with a piece of 300x50x9mm brass which I cut in half. This will form the backs of the saws






Next I had to form the slot for the blade to fit into. Ideally this would be done with a slitting saw on a milling machine but I had neither of those tools.
So next best thing was a set of cheap slitting saws for a Dremel which I used in a pillar drill with a backing fence.






The saws where "about" the same thickness as the saw plate I intended to use. I say "about" because no matter how well you set the pillar drill up it will inevitably make a "wobble" cut when forcing it laterally. More on this later.

After a quick test cut I realised I would need some hold downs to preform the cut






Taking it very slowly and in several passes I got the slit cut, certainly not the best way of doing it but I had to used what I had available and fortunately it came out ok.

With the slit done I could start to taper the backs and add the cove detail.
Tapering was simply done with hand files and the cove detail I did on the over head router which I didn't take any pictures of as I really don't advocate this way of doing it for safety reasons mostly but again I used what I had. (really would like to get my hands on a milling machine)






After a bit of sanding to clean up the machine marks the backs where at a stage that I could start to work on the handles of the saws.






It was a good few days work to this point as like normal I was just doing it in my breaks.

Next up the handles.


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## marcros

What style of handle are you making for these, a traditional saw handle or a turned chisel type handle? I don't know how better to describe them!


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## Bm101

Can't wait. Glad things are working out for you and great to see you are posting here and more importantly making beautiful tools again. *Aw Yiss!


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## Oddbod70

Wow, just wow


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## AJB Temple

Your work is of the highest standard. I am full of admiration.


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## AndyT

As the happy owner of a Skelton saw, I know the quality you are aiming for - and I rather think you'll hit it!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for all the comments guys really appreciate the welcome back 

Andy if I can get 1% of the standard of Shanes work I'd be happy, he really is on another level!
I recently watched the Bench talk video he did where he shares a lot of great information. The techniques he uses to tension his saw blades are incredibly well thought out and executed. 
I'd love to own one of his saws, which one did you go for?

Marcros The handle is.........lets say experimental!


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## thetyreman

great to see you back, this one's been added to my watch list, I always enjoy your contributions.


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## marcros

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> Thanks for all the comments guys really appreciate the welcome back
> 
> Andy if I can get 1% of the standard of Shanes work I'd be happy, he really is on another level!
> I recently watched the Bench talk video he did where he shares a lot of great information. The techniques he uses to tension his saw blades are incredibly well thought out and executed.
> I'd love to own one of his saws, which one did you go for?
> 
> Marcros The handle is.........lets say experimental!




If you go with a handle like on these GENTS SAWS I have a piece of boxwood which I would happily donate to the project. I dont have anything big enough for a dovetail handle though.


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## IWW

HH, you do seem to have caught the tool-making virus!

I guess the same problem promotes similar solutions - your back-slitting jig bears a striking resemblance to mine:







I have several thicknesses of slitting blades & used to try & make the slot match the blade material as closely as I could, but I've found it's quite easy to squeeze the slotted back in a vise to make it a firm fit, so most of the time I use a 0.8mm blade, because it's sturdy & cuts a clean slot. As you've discovered, you need to take it slowly, I never try to cut more than about 1.5mm per pass. If you take too big a bite, the blade gets hot and can warp, resulting in a twisted slot. Not a very pleasing result when that happens.

One of the real joys of making your own saws is playing with handles, trying different positions & "hang angles" for the grip. I was very enthusiastic when I started out & stuck all sorts of handles on my saws, but funnily enough, after a while I drifted back to pretty standard-lookong handles. I guess they evolved to the way they are for pretty good reasons! 

These are my everyday users, each has a different Casuarina wood for its handle. 






The wood of most casuarinas is superficially oak-like, but they are harder & denser than most Quercus spp., and take a very fine polish. The early colonists called them "she-oaks", because the wood looked a bit like the oaks they were used to, but was inferior in their eyes. I don't share their jaundiced view, but then we have somewhat better tools to tackle them with, these days!

Cheers,
Ian


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## Droogs

can I ask what the middle right handle is made from? very nice saws btw


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## AJB Temple

Ian, what is the reason for the curved shape on the blade for the top left saw? And why does the one below it have no back? Just curious. Your work looks very high quality.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

> If you go with a handle like on these GENTS SAWS I have a piece of boxwood which I would happily donate to the project.



Thank you for the kind offer Marcros, I've already selected the woods for these saws but a nice piece of box wood may come in handy for a future project I have in mind. I'll send you a pm when I get onto it  

Thanks for the comment Ian, that's a nice selection of saws you've made yourself and they look superb, Lovely handle details. Am I right in saying the curved end is just decorative or does it serve a purpose?


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## clogs

Hattori, 
nice work, neither time or patients for me I'm afraid......

that Vixen (US)file I seem to remember them as Dreadnought files (UK).....
they are used in car body work.....for shaping lead and later times on body filler......
they were never exp and the original I bought although a little blunt now must be 50 years old......
it's the flexi one with two holes, mine came from Brown Bros, Manchester...they were nation wide comp......
No idea if they still excist tho.....body shop supplies will still sell em.....
nebver really looked after it, shame on me......
have fun....
I find delecate filing turns my fingers numb.....


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## Tony Zaffuto

frank horton said:


> Hattori,
> nice work, neither time or patients for me I'm afraid......
> 
> that Vixen (US)file I seem to remember them as Dreadnought files (UK).....
> they are used in car body work.....for shaping lead and later times on body filler......
> they were never exp and the original I bought although a little blunt now must be 50 years old......
> it's the flexi one with two holes, mine came from Brown Bros, Manchester...they were nation wide comp......
> No idea if they still excist tho.....body shop supplies will still sell em.....
> nebver really looked after it, shame on me......
> have fun....
> I find delecate filing turns my fingers numb.....



I believe similar files can be had, under the name "Iwasaki". A number of woodworking resellers handle them, as well as Amazon. On Amazon, there are many Chinese knock-offs of the Japanese "Dragon" rasp. I bought one, maybe $10 USD, and it works superbly, like a 13 grain Auriou.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment Frank and for the info on the dreadnought files, I just did a quick search for them and they may well be a good addition to my file set.

Thank you for the follow up to Tony, I will check them out  

With the saw backs partially done I moved onto the handles. 
Like I said earlier the handles wont follow any traditional form, I had a vision in my mind as to how I wanted them to look and I've tried to stick closely to it.

I chose to use maple and cherry for one handle and ash and wenge for the other, I had these woods available to me at the time but I'm still waiting to get my hands on something really exotic.

I love maple and this piece had a small amount of "pip" which was complemented nicely by the cherry.

The dark and light contrast of ash and wenge goes together nicely too and they have a similar open grain structure.
I used them as I was toying with the idea of using a liming paste to further contrast the open grain but after a quick sample I preferred the natural colour and contrast of the woods.






The woods are simply held together by beech dowels and glue, cramped up and left to cure over night.

After some early shaping and adding a 45 bevel to the handles I made a simple jig for cutting the slot in the upper portion of the handle to accept the brass backs.






Using the over head router, taking shallow passes to reduce chatter I cut the majority of the wood away






And then a lot of trial fitting and refinement with hand chisels. I used blue marker pen on the side of the brass backs when pushing them into position in the handle, this then left a mark of any tight spots in the groove which I could then cut away with the chisel.






This is one of the grooves nearly finished, Rather than coming to abrupt square end I'm attempting to add a detail feature to finish it off






And here is the early stages of transferring that detail over to the brass back. I plan to use a piece of round stock in the hole getting the joint as tight fitting as possible to hopefully leave a near seamless joint.
This will require a lot of careful filing and gouge work.

I also drilled and taped for a bolt in the under side of the brass back. This will be fixed through the bottom of the handle when I come to assemble the saw.


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## IWW

Droogs said:


> can I ask what the middle right handle is made from?...



Yep, _Allocasuarina cunninghamiana,_ aka "River oak". It's normally a fairly bland pale brown colour, but this old tree was heavily spalted, hence the black lines....
Cheers,
Ian


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## IWW

AJB Temple said:


> Ian, what is the reason for the curved shape on the blade for the top left saw? And why does the one below it have no back? ...



Just whim, AJ., it's a loose copy of a Disston D9 backsaw.
The backless saw is a small panel saw...

Been making saws for 10 years or more now, so I'm starting to get the hang of it.......


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> ..... Thanks for the comment Ian, that's a nice selection of saws you've made yourself and they look superb, Lovely handle details. Am I right in saying the curved end is just decorative or does it serve a purpose?



Mainly decorative, HH. As I said in the above post, it's a loose copy of the Disston D9 (scroll down page). I didn't copy the original handle very closely, I tried that thumb groove you'll see on the illustrated example and found it disconcerting, so I left that off the real thing. However, the protruding nose is actually useful, occasionally; it can reach into places where a normal square-ended saw can't. The emphasis is on _"occasionally"_, I wouldn't go chopping-up a regular 300mm saw just for that purpose! 

You're on a very slippery slope here, my lad (damhik!). Saw-making can be even worse than plane making - there are so many combinations & permutations to try - size, weight, tpi, hang-angles etc.! I have a few saws (most of those in the pic above) that are my regular daily users, but I have another half-dozen or more that I use infrequently that I can't bear to part with for one reason or another.

Making the handles is the major part of the job, partly because I'm a fusspot & want them to look decent and fit my hand like a glove, and partly because many of the woods I choose to work with are bone-hard. Lots of rasp-work (I find smaller "modellers" rasps invaluable for this job), required. I use small scraps of saw plate as scrapers, which greatly speed up the finishing, but there's still a fair bit of sanding required to fair all those curves. 

We are spoilt for choice down here when it comes to selecting woods for handles - that's probably half the reason I've made so many. For example, here's a couple you've probably never heard of:
"Tiger Myrtle" (Nothofagus cunninghamii)






And "Budgeroo" (_Lysicarpus angustifolia_): 






There are still quite a few woods I haven't explored, but fortunately, saw plate is very hard to get here, and costs a bundle to import, so my saw-making has slowed to a trickle this past year or two....

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

They are beautiful saws Ian, the wood on the last two look stunning.
Thanks for the link to, interesting reading about all the different Disston saws never knew there where so many.

Progressing on with the handles and the vision in my mind I needed to add some brass bows between the contrasting woods.

I mark them out on an off cut of brass from the last plane I made glad I never throw any thing away, I knew that tiny strip would come in useful 






After setting several out I start to carefully file them






Delicate work trying to get them as uniform as possible while keeping the edges square.






Once happy with the shape I roughly cut them to length with a junior hacksaw.






Then refined them with needle files to finish off.






Next up was the painstaking task of cutting them into the wood. I used a modified chisel and stanley blade to carefully cut away the wood little by little.
I feared the open grain of the ash and wenge would cause issues cutting such a small detail but fortunately the wood worked in my favour. 






Just for a little context the bows are 14mm long and taper down to 1.5mm in the centre






I then fixed the bow in place with epoxy. One down 7 to go...


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## IWW

Never one to shy away from a challenge are you, HH!?

But aren't these decorations going to get in the way when you fair the handles, or is that already the final shape??

cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Got to keep my hand in somehow Ian 

Other than the addition of a brass counter weight and some fettling that's roughly the handles final shape.
I'm trying to stay true to what I had envisioned so tradition and comfort are kind of taking second place at the moment.

I did have concerns that the sharp angles would be uncomfortable to hold but it's actually not bad and the rear section nestles into my palm nicely.
Once the handle is at its final shape and the sharp edges have been removed I'm hoping it will be as comfortable as a traditional gents saw.


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> ...... Once the handle is at its final shape and the sharp edges have been removed I'm hoping it will be as comfortable as a traditional gents saw....



If you use it enough, it will wear into your hand-shape eventually....


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With all the brass bows cut in I could add the last brass detail to the handle which also acts as a counter weight to the brass back.

I cut a piece of brass and flatten one face so it fits tightly to the bottom of the handle.







As the brass backs are much heavier than traditional folded backs this adds some much needed weight back to the grip end of the saw.






I temporarily fit the brass to the handle with super glue then cut the final taper and sand flush with the disc sander.






The brass is then permanently fixed in place with strong set epoxy, threaded inserts and bolts.






Lastly I could dry fit the backs into the handles to feel the weight together and the see how the saws looked.


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## IWW

That has to be one of the more intricate saw handles I've seen, HH!  
I do like your design aesthetic, it's sort of Japanesy in a Western way - very appealing...

However, yours & my saw-making philosophies seem a little different. My couple of "gents' saws" have simple, boring turned handles. They are not a big part of my saw kit, in fact one is a tiny 24tpi thing with a blade barely 100mm long, that I mostly use for nipping off the drive-ends of small turnings. The handles are quite small & light, just a comfortable handful. I never did get on with straight handles for more demanding work - I tried Japanese saws back in the 70s when they were first being touted as the best thing ever to hit the woodworking world, but just couldn't get on with them, I was too rusted-on to push saws. I can imagine a Japanese woodworker responding similarly to Western saws..

It's interesting (to me, anyway) that you've put quite a hefty spine on your saw. Something that has been commented on before is that British saws of the last century & before tend to have heavier backs than equivalent sizes of American saws, sometimes _much _heavier. I've not seen any reasons advanced for this, & wonder if there are any, other than local custom? Heavy backs certainly aren't 'necessary' - my favorite little dovetailing saw has a 5 x 18mm spine, but slices easily through hardwood under its own weight. But it's what you get used to; to me it's highly controllable and easy to use accurately, but a friend who is a very competent woodworker & well used to saws doesn't like it at all. 

However, a little bit of weight in the back certainly helps. I recently tried out a couple of plastic-handled hardpoint saws from a local hardware chain to see if they were capable of accurate work. Their 'spines' were bits of thin metal - looked like scraps left over from making jam tins. The very light weight plus very badly-cut teeth made them unusable - if you could get them to cut at all, it was never in the one direction for long. Not the sort of saw a beginner would want to start trying to cut dovetails with! 

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Ian.

I have a 22tpi Pax gents saw with standard round handle that's been my go to saw for the last 15 years, I love it though it does need re-toothing now. (Watch this space)
I prefer to use it over my dovetail saws and will only swap over if I need the extra depth.

I also have a nice Shokunin ryoba Japanese saw which I also like a lot and it gets a lot of use. I'm fully onboard with the hype of them, they do produce an excellent, crisp, effortless cut if you can get along with the mechanics. Former colleague with 45 years experience using push saws bought one and got into all sorts of bother trying to use it. His muscle memory just wouldn't let him function it properly so he soon gave up on it.
Like you say horses for courses.

I've heard that heavy backs on saws can help to train vertical cuts faster for beginners as you can concentrate on keeping the saw plumb while the extra weight helps the saw through the wood. The extra weight aids stability but increases effort, on small saws the extra weight isn't an issue where fatigue is concerned as you generally only cut small pieces but I wouldn't like the extra weight on a large tenon saw. 

Could all be a load of nonsense of course but it made sense to me........that and it's the only brass stock I had available


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> ........that and it's the only brass stock I had available



"What I have on hand" has very often played a major role in my design processes, HH! 

There is a lot of rather suspect stuff written and spoken about most tools, but I reckon planes & saws get more than their fair share. Personal preference in saws has a huge amount to do with what you will choose for any given operation, and our preferences cover a very wide range. 'Twas ever thus, I think - just look at the staggering variety of sizes, handles, & tooth patterns that were available back in the days when back saws & hand saws were used all day, every day? 

I have always contended that one of the reasons for the popularity of Japanese saws was that they came along at a time when the ability to properly fettle a saw was dying out. I would see (& still see!) people struggling with saws that would take a week to cut your finger off. The overwhelming advantage the Japanese saws had is that they came sharp, _very sharp_, and well-set, out of the box. To go from any dull, poorly-set saw, push or pull, to a saw that slices through wood effortlessly is bound to make a lasting impression.

Some lucky people seem to be able to switch between push & pull saws constantly, but I'm not one - wish I was! If asked which type is best, I always say, it's the one you are used to, and preferably, one sharpened & set appropriately to the task...

Viva les differences.....

Cheers,


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

With the handles partially done I turn my attention to the saw plate.

I picked up some 0.5mm thick spring steel, hardened and tempered to Rockwell 50-52c
I went with a thinner plate as I thought it would suit a gents saw batter and give a really fine cut.

The steel came blue so I used some Harpic to remove the bluing process.
I poured plenty on and let it sit for a few moments before rubbing off with fine wire wool.






After cleaning the plate with WD40 I gave it a very light sanding.






I don't have a proper saw vice so just made a quick one from wood, screwed to the bench and held shut with a variety of cramps.






I bought larger saw plate than needed to give myself plenty of chance to practise on before cutting the real thing.
I wanted to replicate my 22TPI rip cut paxs gent saw on one of my saws and then do a slightly lower 16 TPI cross cut pattern on the other.

I tried several approaches to cutting the teeth after on-line reading and watching tutorials.

While the 16 TPI plate was coming out acceptable after a bit of practise the 22 TPI plate was proving more difficult.


Using a double extra slim saw file I tried cutting the teeth free hand, using a printed paper template and even using wooden guide sticks. After several attempts each one getting progressively better and with more confidence in my filing technique in the end I was unable to attain the accuracy in the teeth spacing I was striving for.

I was finding that with such a high tooth count it was leaving zero room for correction if the teeth spacing was not perfect. A fraction of a mm off in either direction would leave a small out of place tooth. In the grand scheme of things a few miss shaped teeth on a plate wouldn't cause much of an issue but I couldn't let it go, I was aiming for better.

So after a few restless nights trying to come up with ways to improve the accuracy I had a light bulb moment and a very simple idea came into my head.
The next day I made this simple jig from scraps and was amazed by the results.
I don't want to go into to much detail about it at the moment as I'm currently working on a final version of the jig that I'll cover in this thread once it's finished. It probably isn't a unique idea (those are hard to come by) but after some searching I've not seen any thing like it for hand cutting teeth.

With much care and attention I used an old saw set to set the teeth.
too little set and the saw will bind in the cut while too much set will cause the saw to wander.
Being a gents saw I tried to go with as little set as possible. I wrapped masking tape around the plate to stop the saw set from marring it.






A colleague saw what I was up to and came back with this. Not seen a set like this before. He asked if I wanted to give it a try but I passed on the offer 






With the teeth set I gave them one last very light sharpen before cutting the blade to size with an angle grinder and hand filing to final dimensions.






lastly I filed a little cupids bow in the handle end of the plate for decoration.


----------



## IWW

Lookin' good, HH.

I think you should have created a new thread for your saws - it would make it easier for anyone searching on saw-making. However, it's done now so we may as well press on with the theme...

A couple of tips regarding saw files: 
1. modern files tend to be all over the shop wrt to their corner radii - a DES 4 inch file _should _handle up to 18tpi well enough, but far too many won't, the corners are too rounded (you end up with all gullet and no teeth), & they are often inconsistent from corner to corner on the same file, which is really annoying. Another problem I've encountered all too frequently is that they are either too brittle & shed teeth like an ageing ewe, or too soft & wear smooth after a few dozen strokes. Toothing hard plate from scratch is a severe test for any file, and the file needs to be up to scratch to do the job well.

I've found far & away the best files for smaller saw teeth (from around 16tpi & smaller), are good quality needle files. Grobet files are my pick, they have very fine & consistent corners. These files are double-cut & despite their fine teeth, remove metal very rapidly. And they keep on cutting; they outlast anything else I've tried by a very comfortable margin. This is really important, it's far easier to keep teeth consistent when your file cuts reliably & consistently stroke after stroke. A #4 cut is my choice but a #6 will cut almost as quickly & leave a slightly cleaner surface. It only takes 3-4 full strokes to cut a tooth to depth with these files. 

2. The easiset/best way of cutting very fine teeth that I've found is to use a hacksaw blade as a template (but you'd have to settle for 24tpi as I've never seen 22 on a hacksaw blade  ). Clamp the hacksaw blade to the blank so that about 1/2 the tooth is below the top of your saw plate. Drop the near end of the file down & touch it against one side of a hacksaw tooth, then lift the file and push forward so that it's not touching the template tooth, but cutting te saw plate. With a little practice, you can move from tooth to tooth vey quickly & regularly - all you want is a good mark on the top of your blank.

Remove the blade & cut the teeth to depth. I always use a guide-stick to maintain consistent rake-angle when making new teeth - I've watched pros in the old days do it by eye, but I'm not up to that standard! 




As I said, with a good file, it only takes a few strokes to cut each tooth in that size. I find it easier when cutting new teeth to make no more than two strokes per gullet on each pass, watching the flats & leaning a bit on one side or the other to even out any gullets that are straying to left or right.

Cheers,


----------



## dannyr

Good advice on filing 24 tpi - I've used a technique nearly the same, but found the setting a pain. for finer tpi I now use a Zona - can tickle the sharpness with a needle file but then give up on setting (made a nicer handle for their changeable blades, but doesn't compare with any shown here)

The Vixen file subject keeps re-appearing - should be a separate thread really - the UK inventors of these milled files was Firth Brown Tools, under names Dreadnought and Millenicut, about 1900 - and another UK maker of the more flexible version was Aven Tools - all used a lot for car body make/repair when much was hammered into shape and leaded/fibreglassed etc. I think they must be surface hardened (very hard, possibly nitrided?) so the unhardened core is flexible. There are plenty available used - go for the sharp, unclogged ones of finer cut. The Japanese version is expensive but said to be also undercut by acid etch - can't see much difference with a lens, or in use. (Oh yes, and they make good 'planemakers floats' - I've saw a couple this week at the fleamarket ground to shape with the rear teeth ground blunt).

Back to the saw and plane build -- again -- so much respect for a true craftsman.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments chaps, loads of interesting and useful info there.
I now know what a plane makers float is, I'd seen them in action but never knew what they were called.

Reason I'm putting every thing in one thread is its kind of like an on-line diary for me, I can look back and see when and how I made each stage of something.
Thread might need a name change though 

When I left my previous work I was gifted some very old but very nice Nicholson saw files the quality of which looked great and while some where a little dull they still cut nicely.
Unfortunately there was no 4" extra slim so I bought a new one for this project. Unfortunately again the visual quality of the new file was no where near that of the old files.
Like you said the file was slightly misshapen on the corners, not terribly bad but very obvious when sat next to an old one. the plus side is it seems to cut fast.

I used it for these plates picking the best edge to form the gullets. A couple of short strokes and the tooth is pretty much fully formed.

I can't seem to find a UK seller for Grobet files?
I've read that Bahco and Vallorbe are highly regarded files so will treat myself and pick up a 3 square needle file for my next project to see how it compares to the Nicholson.

Thanks for the tip on using a hacksaw blade as a template, not heard that one before. Would you need to remove the wave set on the hacksaw blade so it can be clamped tightly to the saw plate or does a slight gap between the two not matter?

Guide block was indeed a great aid though mine looks decidedly chunky compared to yours


----------



## IWW

Something I meant to say yesterday: I have another essential "artificial aid" I use when filing teeth on any saw - a magnifying head-band. The day has long since gone when I could do even an 8tpi saw with naked eye. 

Very fine teeth like 24tpi & up are sill a challenge even when I _can _see them, they are devilishly hard to keep even, any variation in file pressure from tooth to tooth, or worse, filing the same gullet twice (which is all too easy to do!) will give you a set of 'cows & calves' & a rough-cutting saw that isn't very pleasant to use.

When I started sharpening finer saws I would use a very fine felt-tipped pen to mark the teeth between filing runs so I could see where I was at. I would also put a mark on the back of every 2nd tooth when setting so I wouldn't jump over 2 teeth instead of 1 - easy to do with the saw-set obscuring much of your view. After a while, my hands took over & knew how far to move the file or set without so much help from the eyes, so I rarely need to mark them now.

I guess there are a few lucky folks who master saw-sharpening quickly, but for many of us it's a long & steep hill to negotiate, partly, at least, because we don't get enough consistent practice just doing our own saws. However, it's one of the more worthwhile things to become competent at if you use handsaws - the pleasure of using a saw that slices through wood accurately & quickly is at least equal to the pleasure of snicking off consistent 1 thou shavings with a well-fettled plane...

Cheers,
Ian


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> ...... I can't seem to find a UK seller for Grobet files?
> I've read that Bahco and Vallorbe are highly regarded files so will treat myself and pick up a 3 square needle file for my next project to see how it compares to the Nicholson.....



HH, there has been an awful lot of chatter on several forums on the poor quality of saw files over the last 10-15 years! To make a really good job of sharpeneing a saw, you want a file that cuts consistently and doesn't fade halfway along the first set of teeth on a 300mm saw. Few files do that now. I'm flat-out getting more than a couple of sharpenings out of most new files, and the files I use for other work are of similar poor quality. And they ain't cheap, so what used to be a fairly minor expense for these consumables has become a significant factor in my shed life.

All of the big names have come in for severe criticism, largely because they have all moved production to countries & profit matters far more than quality. A group of us did a fairly extensive trial of several brands about 7 years ago, & the results were not very encouraging! Apart from brittleness/softness issues, the corner inconsistency within brands was extremely annoying - in some cases corners on supposedly DEST files that were coarser than their bretheren two sizes larger, and there were very few that fell within the supposed standards for triangular files. I've sometimes used up two brand-new files toothing-in a 12tpi 300mm saw blade.

However, some seem to be lifting their game a _bit _over the last few years, so if you are lucky you might get a batch of files that is about half as good as the Wiltshires & Nicholsons of old. I've been using Bahcos as the best of a bad lot for several years, but they could still do with improvement, particularly in their corner consistency. I've got a few new-old-stock files made in Australia, probably 40 years ago, that I compare other files to, and they are streets ahead of any new file I've bought these last 15 years or so. I'm down to just a few of the larger sizes, so they'll soon all be gone, unfortunately.

The Grobet files (Vallorbe is the place in Switzerland where they are made) are well worth pursuing. They are far & away the best files for fine teeth, sharp-cornered, highly consistent, and they _last_! I get many times the mileage out of Grobet files compared with any other brand I've tried, & I've tried just about every brand you can name.



Hattori-Hanzo said:


> .......Thanks for the tip on using a hacksaw blade as a template, not heard that one before. Would you need to remove the wave set on the hacksaw blade so it can be clamped tightly to the saw plate or does a slight gap between the two not matter? ....



I got it from someone else, so can't claim originality. Some hacksaw blades don't have that wave pattern, they use set teeth like a saw for wood, & they are easier to use as a template if you can find one. But you can manage with the wavy ones if you are careful, you just have to watch that you keep the file straight across all the time. The main thing is don't run your file against the very hard hacksaw teeth, it doesn't do the file much good.

I've made templates out of scrap sawplate for several of the common sizes. For a while I was making saws by the dozen, so I put the effort in & made some accurate templates in the most common tooth pitches. If you are only making a few saws, there are a coupe of sources of paper templates on the Web. It can take a bit of trial & error to get them to print out at the precise size, but what I did was print out all of the sizes close to what I wanted, check them, & choose the one that was closest to what I wanted (hand-sharpened teeth don't have to be an _exact _pitch, just consistent). It takes longer & you need to be more careful to keep the spaces even as you mark out, but for a few saws, it's not that big a deal. 

Stick the paper template on your saw and just file a notch at each mark (either use a non water-based glue, or clean it up as soon as you have finished, modern saw plate just loves to become iron oxides again - damhik!) . The needle files excel at this task, you can place the sharp corners very precisely, and a single stroke usually cuts a very distinct notch. Once you have your notches, remove the paper so it doesn't clog the file, grab a file that best suits that pitch, and file to depth.

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for all the info Ian.

I'm going to keep an eye out for some Grobet files for sure.
I see Axminster tools sell Vallorbe and bacho needle file sets which I am considering purchasing as my current cheap draper set are really starting to dull.

I did try the paper templates and they did help considerably in getting consistent teeth spacing on the 16TPI blade where there was a little more scope to correct the spacing but I just wanted to try and go that step further for the 22 TPI blade as even with the template I found it difficult to achieve the accuracy, maybe I'm being overly anal about it and my eyes definitely aren't as good as they used to be 

Like most things if you're re-toothing saws regularly then experience and muscle memory will take over but for someone like me that only sharpens and re-tooths saws sporadically a template at the very least is a must.


Not much of an update today but with all the parts of the saw partly finished I could start to assemble them

The saw backs are glued into the handles with strong epoxy and securely bolted from underneath the handle with stainless steel bolts.
The brass rod was also glued in place and a cramp pinched the handle up tight.






Once the handles were dry I could fit the saw plate. I used the same epoxy to glue them in place.
The curved front end on the plate is because I didn't want to see the saw plate passing through the front of the saw. Hopefully this won't be detrimental to the blades rigidity as there is still a good amount of the plate inserted into the brass at that point.
After watching the bench talk series with Shane Skelton recently I'd really like to experiment with tensioning a blade in a future saw and have a few ideas in my mind of how I could incorporate it into this design of saw, but that won't be for a while 
Like I keep saying he really is a master of his craft.






With the saws assembled there is going to be a lot of cleaning up to do once they are dry. In the meantime I can make a start on the saws sheaths.


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## IWW

HH, I subscribe to the idea that one of the functions of the spine on backsaws is to apply a small amount of tension to the blade. I cramp the spine lightly until it is a tight fit on the plate at back & front - I strive to make it a good firm fit all along, then apply a little extra grip at each end. When assembling the saw, I first bolt the plate into the handle, then place the spine on the plate with about about 10-15mm overhang at the toe end of the saw, tap it down til it's seated in the handle & straight along the plate, then tap the spine back to fully engage it in he handle slot. This ensures the blade is straight, & introduces just a small amount of tension, which adds a bit of 'life' to the blade when sawing. You really don't need the elaborate bit of engineering of a Skelton saw to achieve enough tension to do this job.

I see a lot of folks glueing plate into their spines, or using rivets in the case of one boutique maker, and it seems to me you are losing one of the benefits of having a spine by doing that. 

Far and away the most important part of any saw is the teeth - the pitch, rake angle (and fleam angle on crossscuts) are the major determinants of how a saw cuts. Get them right for the job in hand & you'll have a good saw. If the handle is comfortable, & the hang angle of the grip is suited to the task the saw is mostly used for, it will take it to the level of an excellent saw.

I don't want to clutter your thread with a discussion on hang-angles, it's irrelevant to your style of saw, so I'll leave off my ravings & maybe start another thread on the topic to get a range of opinions on that topic. 

Waiting to see some sawdust......
Cheers,
Ian


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## Bm101

Interesting reading. Good thread.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks again for the info Ian

I should have elaborated more on fitting the plate.
While doing research prior to starting the saws I found that folded backs like you say grip the plate in a way to tension it as it is inserted.
This was something I was unaware of.

I believe in most cases the saw plate can easily be removed from folded back saws so the tension they exert must be quite small?

I think what sets Shanes saws apart is that with his tension mechanism he can set exactly the amount of tension for each saw, something I think would be extremely difficult with a folded or slotted back.
Maybe it's unnecessary, I've never used one of his saws to compare but I see they get a lot of praise. It makes sense to me to, a lot like a well tensioned band saw seems to cut and sing better than a poorly tensioned one.

Unfortunately I saw the bench talk video too late but I've since had an idea to add an tension adjuster to my gents saws much like a hacksaw has, this way you could adjust the blade tension to suit different wood species.
Would it be of any benefit? I don't know but it would be pretty cool and fun to make 

Earlier in the thread I mentioned that the slitting saw I had made a slot that was "about" the right thickness for the saw plate.
As I was cutting the slot on a pillar drill a certain amount of deflection was introduced while cutting which made the slot a little bigger.

To overcome this I found a thin piece of veneer backing fibre which measured by luck exactly that of the saw plate.
I fitted the fibre into the slot and used a large engineering vice to pinch the slot tight at the toe and heel of the back leaving the middle a snug fit.
As the fibre can be crushed a little this made the fit on the blade very tight.
In doing this I hoped the slot would act like a folded back and add a little tension to the blade as it was inserted, the glue was there for "belt and braces" as my old boss would have said.
I don't know how much, if any tension was added to the blade as I fitted it but if any the glue would hold it in place. Obviously this means the blade can't be removed but it never really should have to be on a gents saw.
That was the idea any way.


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## IWW

HH, yes, you can remove folded backs fairly easily from most saws, though it's sometimes not "easy". Apart from corrosion, which can make them very hard to budge innitially, there does seem to be a bit of variability between how tight they were when first fitted. I haven't adjusted enough spines on enough saws to have any idea if the variation is random or if some brands were more careful when fitting spines.

I was unaware of Skelton saws until you mentioned them, so yesterday, I spent some time on their website. If you have a very generous tool budget & want a tool to brag about, they have much to offer. However, I have mixed feelings about tools like these. As someone who has made many saws, I admire & fully appreciate the workmanship & the thought that's gone into them, but that tensioning system is rather overboard & quite unnecessary, imo. If your back is reasonably tight, and you tap the blade back 10-15 mm when fitting it as I mentioned previously, you'll introduce the tiny amount of tension required. It will be quite sufficient for sawing any wood, from the hardest known (of which we have numerous examples where I live!) to the softest. Unlike with a bandsaw blade, for e.g., the amount of heat generated when sawing is highly unlikely to cause warping unless you like zero set & use a very frenzied sawing action.

I can't remember where I saw the article, but I think it might have been in a very old Fine Woodworking, where an 'old-timer' (& that was 35- 40 years ago) was talking about refurbishing old backsaws. He talked sbout the function of the spine & showed an example of a warped-looking blade that he "fixed" by tapping the spine about a bit to set it properly. That opened my eyes to the fact that the spine does a bit more than passively holding the blade straight. But you can easily achieve these ends without having to introduce extra tensioning devices - a cool bit of engineering & superbly executed, but totally OTT (again, imo!).

I think you've shown a lot of practicality and common-sense in your approach to tool-making, & we've found similar solutions to the same problems, but you seem to have progressed more rapidly than I did - it has taken me many years to figure out some of the basics. But stick with the common-sense approach, I say. If a certain design has been static for 200 years, it's a good indication that it's because it does a very good job & there is really no need for further refinement. Not always, of course, & I'm sure there are examples to the contrary, but it should give us pause to think if our 'improvements' are either necessary or desiraable.

I talk from the perspective of a tool-user rather than a maker. I've made at least 50 saws by now, and the last dozen were definitely better than the first few, the fit of spine & blade is hard to get perfect in the silly hard (but highly attractive!) woods I choose to use, but is one thing you do need to get right in order to have a solid, straight saw. Those Skelton saws are exemplary in that respect, thanks to some neat machining. The other really important part is the grip angle & position. The Skelton dictum that it should be set so your index finger points to the centre of the tooth line is rather simplistic. It is all about smooth transfer of power to the tooth line, which really depends on what height you use a saw at. 

For years I had an absolute favourite dovetail saw. It was a Tyzack, acquired bout 1980. It came with an excuse for a handle, which I hated both the look & feel of, and was quickly replaced with a handle copied from a friend's similar-sized 1920s Disston. With the new handle, it suddenly became my go-to saw for dovetailing, but it was at least 25 years later before I figured out why. By sheer fluke, I'd got he grip angle perfect for sawing at an elevated height as you do when sawing D/Ts or tenons. With this saw, my wrist is in a 'neutral' position as I begin the cut, which makes it comfortable & easy to control the saw intuitively. At the end of the cut, it's bang on the line front & back, almost no need to check. An old cabinet-maker who mentored me in my 20s used to insist I should saw tails & pins & just tap them together for a perfect fit - paring to fit was a waste of time & an admission of failure in his eyes. I struggled for many years to achieve this, but when that saw entered my life, it became easy. It was ousted a few years back by one I've made, which is fractionally better, it has a nicer handle that fits my hand a bit better, but what gives it the edge is that it has a lighter spine, which makes it easier to place & start for the left/right tail cuts. The Tyzack has a much wider, thicker & heavier spine, & now I'm used to my saw, I find it clumsy.

It's minor details like these that I think take a saw from good to excellent. But the paramount requirements of any saw is a straight blade, with a pitch & tooth conformation appropriate to the task, & above all, _sharp_. Satisfy those criteria & I'll take bets I can split the line with just about any handle on it (even plastic  ), but it will take much more concentration & I won't enjoy the task anywhere near as much.....

Cheers,


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## Hattori-Hanzo

I think my progression is largely based on the wealth of information that is so readily available via the internet now. Although it has it's negatives you couldn't ask for a better learning tool.
That and my stupid determination 

I see your points about Shanes tools, I think they appeal to a certain kind of consumer and they are expensive but I don't think they are over priced considering the investment in time and development to make them. I believe it is only himself and wife that form the company and while he uses machines to speed up processes and to achieve the levels of accuracy he strives for there is also a lot of hand work involved to finish the saws. 
I could be totally wrong of course but I see his saws much like a Holtey hand plane, they are an investment and meant to be cherished.
I know I would love to own one, along with many other bespoke makers tools but my pockets just don't run deep enough.

I agree with the motto "if it ain't broke don't fix it" but I'm also in favour of pushing boundaries and implementing new ideas for progression or just for self curiosity. 
Like you say with saws, it's a good idea to follow the fundamental proven designs but I'm all for trying new ideas to try and improve on them, whether that be aesthetically or functionally.

As for tool comfort I suppose its a bit subjective, what feels comfortable for one person won't for the next. I suspect we all know the feeling of picking up someone else's tools and they just feel wrong in the hand but when you do find a tool that fits you perfectly it does make the job that bit easier.


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## IWW

Yep, I think we are basically in agreement, HH.

I think the comparison of Skelton saws with Holtey planes is quite apt. The latter are superb tools that seem too precious to use for fear of diminishing their investment value (I wonder how many actually plane wood and get marked & occasionally dinged? Maybe they'll be the more valuable in yeas to come! ).

I do think it's a good thing that some of us strive to make things better than they've been made before, if nothing else, it gives you a direction in life. Most of my striving has been simply to get to a standard of workmanship I can live with, though I have made some attempts at "improving" on the past. In most cases my improvements have tended to be the opposite, I confess. But I have come up with a few 'original' ideas of my own on a coupe of occasions and felt very smug for a while. Until I discovered someone had beaten me to it by 100 years (like Norris's "thumbscrew-wedge" like he used for the A28, etc.) 

But for true amateurs, it's the journey that really matters, as soon as you reach one goal, another will beckon...
Cheers,
Ian


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## AndyT

I think I agree with you both as well.
And just to provide a note of reassurance: I have a Skelton saw, which I use, on good work only. 
I know four other woodworkers who each have several of his saws; all are for pleaasurable use, not investment.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Just a quick update this evening, been putting in some late nights so project work has taken a back seat.

I made a start on the sheaths for the saws. 
I've been sitting on a nice bundle of birds eye maple and rippled sycamore veneer waiting for the right time to use them.

I make a start by machining some maple into 5mm thick strips. Thankfully work has a large drum sander so processing thin material is made easy are tear out free.






I then drill two shallow holes into the maple and epoxy in some 10mm neodymium magnets.
These will hopefully hold the saw nicely in place when inserted and stop the sheath from falling off.

I then roughly cut some 1mm thick veneer to act as a spacer to separate the maple strips, one at each end and one along the bottom. 
Simply butt jointed and glued on with PVA and cramps
I'm not being overly fussy with this stage as all of this will be hidden once the two halves come together.






Lastly I glued the top maple strip onto the spacers and used cramps....lots of cramps to hold it together while the glue dried.






I put a little message inside the sheath, though the only way to find it would be to break it apart.

Once this is dry I can start preparing the veneers.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Another small update.

Now the sheath cases are dry and cleaned up I started to work on the veneers.

I cut Thin strips for the edges of the sheath and larger pieces for the front and back.







I carefully spread pva glue onto the edge veneers and used a flat surface to cramp against to ensure the veneers laid flat. 
Careful application avoids unnecessary glue squeeze out.






I repeated the same process for the ends of the sheath.
Once the glue had dried I planed any over hanging veneer flush with the sheaths surface and proceeded to glue the front and back veneers in place one at a time.

I use a piece of foam matting to ensure even pressure on the veneer and to compensate for any inconsistencies in flatness on the sheath body.






I repeated the process for the figured sycamore veneers but in my haste I had forgotten I needed to cut a relief in the back of the sheaths so the saw blade can be fully inserted.

Annoyed!

I cut and filed the relief notch then soaked some strips of veneer in boiling water before wrapping them round a similar sized piece of dowel.
Soaking and pre-shaping the veneer is critical as it would likely crack/split if applied dry.






Once the veneer was slightly dryer I glued it in place.
Not the end of the world but ideally I'd liked to have had all edges glued in place before the front and back veneers are applied, this hides any joins on the face of the piece being veneered.
I'm hoping I should be able to blend these small bits in when I come to sand up the sheaths.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the sheaths veneered the final touch was to add my initial mark.

I had a few vinyl stencils left over from the last plane build which luckily where a perfect fit on a small piece of brass round bar I also had left over.
I'm currently working on a new name stamp so hopefully I'll get that sorted for the next project.

I carefully squared off the brass round bar then degreased it with rubbing alcohol and fitted the stencil.






I secured cable ties to the brass with masking tape and used a piece of dowel to suspend the brass in a measuring cup.






I then filled the cup with ferric chloride to slightly above the stencil. The reason I suspended the brass with the stencil facing down is so that as the acid etches into the brass the waste material will fall away rather than clogging up the stencil, this should hopefully result in a better etch.











I left the brass to etch for around an hour after which I removed it from the acid then used baking powder to naturalize any remaining acid and rinsed away the surplus with cold water.
Thankfully the vinyl stencil remained intact and was unaffected by the acid, I'm really pleased with how the etch turned out.






I then left the brass to fully dry before giving it a coat of black paint, again leaving that to dry then sanding off the face to leave the etch blackened. 






I needed to cut the mark from the bar and flatten it to a uniform thickness. I used a hacksaw and did my best to cut a straight line. I then drilled a tight fitting hole into a piece of MDF to the required depth and used the linisher to sand the mark down. I rotated the MDF every few seconds to ensure I was flattening the brass evenly. As soon as the MDF was touched I stopped and removed the mark.






One down, I then repeated the whole process for the other mark.

I then carefully marked out and drilled both sheaths with a tight fitting hole to the same depth as the mark.






And finally fixed the mark in place with a little epoxy and a G-cramp with a buffer to protect the mark from scratches.






I had this design in my head from the beginning of the project and I'm pleased with how the sheaths have come out. Originally I had planned to have my mark slightly smaller but the lack of a lathe now means I have to go with the materials I've got.
I've been looking into mini bench top lathes which would be perfect for my needs but even the dubious Chinese ones which require a lot of fettling are quite expensive, second hand branded lathes seem to be holding there value extremely well to, most of which go for well over my budget


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## foxbat

Thankyou foyr sharing, this is a truely wondeful thread.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks foxbat, glad you're enjoying it


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Finally after a lot of sanding and waxing the saws are finished.

I took the handles up to 320 grit and the sheaths to 500 then finished them with a few coats of diluted linseed oil and buffed them to a nice sheen with neutral bison wax.

I'm really pleased with how they have turned out. They have stayed true to the vision I had in my mind with only a few minor changes along the way.
While initially they feel a little strange to hold (the solid brass backs add a considerable weight over a folded back and the angular handle while not uncomfortable takes a bit of getting used to, though I quickly learn to hold the saw in the same way every time I pick it up unlike a rounded handle gents saw which can take a few repositions to feel right) after a little use they start to feel more familiar to my hand.

I've not had the chance to use them a great deal as of yet but I'm looking forward to giving them a good work out to see how they shape up.
The 16tpi blade seems to be performing very well but I want to get hold of a decent needle file to dress up the 22tpi blade as I feel even my double extra slim saw file is a little to large, I'm curious to see the difference it could make.

Lots of pics incoming!

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I didn't manage to capture much video of the build unfortunately, I actually started this project this time last year but had to put it on hold for reasons I've mentioned earlier. I'm very fortunate to be able to carry on doing something I really enjoy especially with the way things are at the moment.

I have put a video together of the footage I did get if any one is interested.



Cheers
Dan.


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## Bm101

Just stunning. The video was a great watch too. 
Just A1.


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## foxbat

Wow!!!!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comments and likes guys really appreciate it


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## Old.bodger

All spectacular and very inspiring, can I ask (I can’t see that you have said), how you worked out / obtained the dimensions for your planes ?
An insight into your planning, set out and drafting skills would be very enlightening.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the comment bodger. 
To be honest most of it is just in my head. I look at pictures or watch videos and guesstimate the rough sizes.
I haven't followed any true plane sizes as such, I do a quick sketch or visualize it in my mind at the start then go from there. I sometimes adjust proportions as I progress though the build to what I think looks and feels right but mostly I just follow what I've imagined.

A lot also depends on the material sizes I have available at the time, sometimes I have to adjust dimensions to what I've got.

The saws where made totally from memory but for the planes I did a very crude drawing on paper or mdf, my drawing skills are truly awful!
If I come up with an idea in my mind I usually sketch it out on a piece of paper but I think it would be nonsense to any one else looking at it.

This is the drawing I did for the first plane I made and the blade adjuster, again most of it was in my head. I also made a few wooden mock up lever caps and handles which you can see around the drawing.






This was the first mitre plane. The sizes where just what I thought looked right at the time.






This was the second mitre plane. Wasn't much to go on.






I think because my drawings are so bad and I don't enjoy the process all that much I've learnt to picture things in my mind and go from there.
Other than a few sketches to jog my memory along the way that's normally the way I work.

I think its obvious I much prefer the making stage over the planning


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## Old.bodger

Interesting! Thanks.


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## IWW

I don't see anything unusual in your approach, HH, mine has much in common. I think my working sketches are rougher than yours, but "working with the material I happen to have in hand" sounds very familiar! 

With planes, there are a few design details to be observed, like using a suitable proportion of toe to heel, depending on its intended use, but otherwise it's a pretty clean slate. Sizes are matters of personal taste, different people choose different sizes of plane to do the same job. The size of some scraps I wanted to find a use for determined the sizes of some finger & thumb planes I made. They were done for fun & to see how small a body I could dovetail up, but they turned out to be far more useful than I expected, which was a bonus. 

The "give it a go & see" approach has led to a couple of serendipitous successes and a couple of spectacular failures, but it's all good experience. In fact failure can often teach you far more than instant 'success' . If the thing works reasonably well, one tends to accept that gratefully & just get on & use it, whereas a failure usually gets investigated & analysed & valuable lessons may be learnt.

There are two aspects of those continuous-side mitre planes that are worrying to someone like me who is still hovering on the verge of tackling one, & these may be what old.bodger was alluding to. One is how you figure out what diameter bending form to use to get the right body width. Springback is going to make life difficult if you use the same diameter form as the finished bend, and what also bothers me is that the amount of springback is so variable, with harder alloys having far more than softer alloys. Having bent up sides for a dozen coffin-shaped planes of all sizes, I've come to the conclusion that figuring out how much extra curve to put on the bending forms is more art than science!

The other worry I have is setting out the holes for the bridge & cutting them before bending. If the bend goes just a little astray, the two sides will not match & you could have an obviously wonky bridge, which would rather spoil things. So I'm torn between fitting the bridge in the traditional way, or fitting it after the chassis is peened up. I watched Bill Carter's videos on making mitre planes very carefully, he talks about this & the need to be especially careful, & tosses off a remark at one point that if the holes do end up out of alignment "there are ways to deal with it", but doesn't elaborate further, or if he did, I must've missed that bit. 

I'd love to be able to spend a day or three lurkng in the shed of the old master, just watching him work & picking up a few extra clues...... 

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Totally agree with your comment Ian, it's brilliant when things go well first time but you learn so much more when things go a bit astray and you have to work out a solution to an unexpected problem.

For the bend radius, I decided how wide I wanted my plane to be (or rather what size blade I wanted) then made a former from a piece of hard timber, the harder the better, the radius being half the plane width.






I didn't find spring back to much of an issue, like you say there is no real way of countering it efficiently as it will be different for every piece of metal.

As long as the front dovetails are tight fitting they will hold the body in place, then any bow left in the body can be taken out when peening the bridge in place.

What's more important to consider with spring back is material thickness.

My first mitre plane body was made from 6.4mm brass and it took a lot of effort to bend it (using a 3 foot pole and sash cramps)
As you can guess the spring back from it was huge but like I mentioned once the front of the plane was put in place it held it fine, I had to squeezed it together with g-cramps so it was fitting tightly to the wooden former in order to get the front on.

My second mitre plane body was made from 3mm brass and was easy to bend and pretty much held it's shape after being bent with minimal spring back.

I think 3mm is about the right thickness for a mitre plane body, I certainly wont be making another one from 6mm any time soon, though it is a lovely plane to use 

For the bridge on the first plane I cut the hole to full size before bending which I think is fine to do but if I where to do it this way again I would make the hole a lot smaller than needed so I had more room for correction if the holes didn't align after the body was bent, this way you can get the bridge spot on.
The bridge on this plane is slightly out, not enough to notice by eye but when inserting the wedge for the first time it became apparent, though it's easily overcome by adjusting the wedge to suit.

As long as you are very accurate with you're making out on both the body and the wooden former it should all line up fine.





Here you can see the centre of the plane is lined up with the centre of the former, as long as it doesn't move while being bent and the bridge holes are marked out and cut accurately it should come out fairly well.

If the bridge holes are not aligned this will also mean the bed of the front dovetails won't be parallel either which would leave you with a skewed plane.
You can try to correct this by clamping one side of the plane in the vice and tapping the other side in the opposite direction to align the bridge holes and front dovetails.

If the holes are only a little bit out it should be fairly easy to correct, if they are a long way out you run the risk of deforming the radius at the back of the plane.

I explain it a little at the start of this video.



For my second plane I didn't use a bridge and instead used a rod to hold the lever cap.
This makes things a little easier as you can drill the hole after the plane is assembled and peened together but great care still has to be taken to ensure the hole is being drilled square and straight.
Care also needs to be taken when peening the rod in place as it is very easy to over do it and bow the sides of the plane inwards. this is a benefit of having a bridge in that you have a shoulder to peen up to.

Another important consideration is the spacing of the first dovetails at the bent end of the plane. If they are put to closely to the bend they will be partially curved. It's not the end of the world if they do as I actually think it looks nice with the dovetails going round the bend but it obviously makes it a lot harder to fit and peen them to the sole.

Hope this rambling make some sort of sense, I'm not great at explaining things.


----------



## IWW

Thanks for the encouragement, HH. Yep, it all makes sense to me, I guess I have enough experience to recognise what you are describing. It's funny, in a way, you started out with the most difficult body to assemble (at least I think so!), and used way heavier side material than I would have chosen (adding considerably to the difficulties!), but pulled it off remarkably well. Sometimes it pays not to over-think things & just get stuck in. I reckon you'll find a small smoother or similar a doddle after your mitre plane experiences.

I was ambitious enough with my first build, choosing curved sides with little idea when I started of how I was going to make the curves. That plane had a _very _prolonged gestation, and almost went to landfill on a couple of occasions, but after many stops & starts it finally got there. I've probably done 7 or 8 curved side planes of various sizes now, and got the process down pretty well, so I don't know why I'm still fussing about the mitre plane. I got as far as marking out the sides & making a blade for it, but they've been sitting there silently nagging me to get on with it, for several months!

Of course, the way to avoid any bridge problem would be to fit a lever cap, like on the later "improved" mitre planes. I've made plenty of lever caps now, & fitting those is easy, particularly with parallel sides. I could also fit the bridge later, using screws or pins like I did on my little thumb plane, but I do want to try fitting a traditional bridge with through-tenons.

I just need to stop being a wimp, get the digit extracted & get on with it!
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Edit. Nearly ready....


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

January has rolled around again and for most of us It couldn't have come soon enough.

Hopefully 2021 will be a brighter, happier year…..After this lock down......we'll see!



You may remember a jig/idea I had mentioned when making my gents saws to aid in the filing of the saw teeth.

Well, finally I've had the time to work on this project and have eventually managed to get it finished.



I started making those saws and hand filing the plates back in Dec 2019, the first jig I made to cut the teeth was pretty simple but it worked so well, far better than I ever imagined it would, so much so that I wanted to develop the jig further.

After a lot of deliberation I finally settled on a design and set about making it, but before that I did some searching on-line to see if there was anything similar already out there. I couldn't find anything quite like it, perhaps for good reason, it maybe totally unnecessary but I've found it works really well for me and I really enjoyed making it, so why not.



I'm calling it a "handsaw re-toothing guide" and is used with a hacksaw to accurately cut notches into a saw plate, these notches can then be used to locate a saw file to begin shaping the teeth. I’m aware this isn't a new idea but does have some benefits over cutting the teeth with a file alone.

For someone like me who only re-tooths saws occasionally it's made the process much easier with consistent results. I have used it on 4 saws now and they have all come out great.
It’s mainly intended for smaller handsaws in the 24 to 12 tpi range, though it could possibly be used for small panel/rip saws as well.


I didn't get any video of the build process but did take a lot of pictures along the way which I'll go through first, I've also made a video of the guide in use which I'll post at the end.


I'd be really interested in your thoughts on the guide.
I managed to get some video on the first version of the guide which if there were any interest I could post if people wanted to make their own.



I started with a piece of brass flat bar. I ran a shallow groove in the centre of the bar using a router.

The bar will later be cut in half and fixed back together, I cut this groove in the hope it would act like a pilot hole, as I needed to drill a straight hole through the brass and feared the drill bit would wander when drilling on the pillar drill.







Here I have cut the bar and drilled holes ready for some brass rod to be inserted and peened to permanently fix the halves together.






I cut the brass rod to length and add a small countersink to the holes so the brass can mushroom into it when peening.






Next I remove the surplus peened brass and drill the centre hole through the middle of the block. The groove I cut at the beginning worked as intended though in hindsight I needn't have cut it so deep.






This smaller piece of brass will form the front slide, and will sit at the front of the guide to hold one of the guide plates, this plate is what the hacksaw will ride against.
I drill two holes 






And file away the center to leave an elongated hole that will let the front slide move forwards and backwards on the locking bolt.






Next I removed the head from a bolt and drilled and tapped for a smaller countersunk bolt to fit into it’s centre.
This will secure the front slide to the bolt. The threaded end of the bolt will hold the guide adjustment thumb screw.






A dry fit of the main components to see how they fit together, temporarily held in place with a cap bolt.






Next I needed to make the locking thumb screw for the front slide.
I’ve no access to a lathe so had to get creative with the pillar drill.
Not ideal and quite limiting but it did what I needed to do...just about.






I cut the shaped piece from the rest of the brass and began to file the finger indentations.






And then tapped the centre 






Next I threaded a short piece of brass rod, this will later be peened permanently into the thumb screw.
This thumb screw will be used to lock the front slide in position once the guide has been set using an indexing plate.






Here I’ve drilled two holes in the front slide and two corresponding holes in the main body of the guide to accept compression springs.










Next I mark out the guide plates on a piece of high carbon steel.






I drill holes in the front slide and main body and then tap them










The holes accept bolts that fit through the guide plates, these will later be peened into position.












Next I fit the body of the guide back together and square the sides. I then mark out a bevel on the top of the guide.


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

I use the disc sander to remove the bulk of the material then come back to finish with hand files.






I cut a circle from a piece of flat brass stock and shape it with the disc sander to form a collar. I used superglue to secure it to a piece of MDF and drilled the centre.






I tapped the centre to accept a threaded insert.






I then used the threaded insert to secure the brass collar to a piece of rosewood, I also used a little epoxy to help hold it in place. This will be made into the handle for the guide.






Back to the dubious pillar drill to start shaping the handle. Really missing the lathe,






but after a little perseverance the handle was done.
I buffed it with shavings






Then added a coat of sanding sealer. I’ll later finish it with resin epoxy.






Next I make out the handle support on a piece of 01 tool steel.






I cut it out with a hacksaw and shape it with hand files.






I then drill and counterbore the holes to accept cap headed allen bolts.






And finally I drill and tap the fixing points in the main body of the guide for the handle support to secure into.






Back once again to the “pillar drill lathe” this time I have a piece of brass round bar which I have drilled and tapped the centre to accept a bolt. Using this bolt I can mount the piece in the drill chuck and start to shape the adjustment thumb screw which will sit at the rear of the guide.
I had to add a supporting piece of MDF at the bottom while shaping the thumb screw as there was a lot of deflection.






The deflection meant I couldn't finish the end of the thumb screw as desired so I turned to the disc sander with a simple jig to add a bevel.






All of the main components to the guide are now complete. They still require a lot of work to clean up and finish.






But I can fully assemble the guide for the first time.






Lastly I could add the guide plates. I inserted the bolts and used high strength lock tight to hold them in place. 







I then cut down the surplus bolt and peened the plates into position.










With the majority of the guide complete I could start work on the indexing plates.
These are used to set the guide to a desired TPI.

I start by cutting and rounding some brass flat bar.






I needed some precisely thicknessed metal for the indexing plates that was strong and durable. I had no way of making such pieces myself, so my first thought on what might be suitable was feeler gauges.

I bought a large set of gauges and after a lot of testing found the right thicknesses to accurately set the guide at 22, 20, 18, 16 and 14 tpi, these can also be used in combination to set the guide at smaller tpi ranges. I also included a 0 indexing plate that can be used to finely adjust the guide.

I then marked out and carefully drilled holes through the brass plates and gauge


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

I cut small pieces of brass rod which was used to peen the plates to the gauge.










I used the disc sander to remove the surplus brass, then finished by hand before finally buffing with a loose mop.






Lastly I stamped the relevant numbers into the brass plate. I would have liked to etch these numbers instead of stamping to achieve better accuracy, however lock downs where in place so I was unable to see my friend to arrange the needed stencils.






With all of the work done I could finally start to finish the individual pieces.
I used wet and dry sandpaper, working up through the grades on each piece.
It was a messy process!






I used a combination of stitched and loose mops to buff everything to a gloss finish.










With everything finished and polished I could finally fully assemble the guide, but before that I had to make a box for it to live in.

I had some pure black Corian left over which I was able to cut 4 sides and a top from.
I mitred the corners of the box and also the top edges in the hope to make the box seamless.






I used masking tape and Corian resin to fix the box together.
The masking tape hides the joints while the glue is setting so I had to wait until it was fully cured before I could see how well they had turned out.






Thankfully they had turned out nicely so I set about sanding the box from 120 grit all the way up to 3000 grit. This was a bit of an experiment as I wanted to see if Corian could be polished to a very high gloss finish.

After sanding I used the loose mop and a jewellers compound to buff the Corian.






Thankfully after all of the effort in sanding the Corian buffed up to a nice high gloss finish, I was relieved!






I added an oak interior to the box and made a matching oak base which I rebated to allow the box to fit snugly onto.










Lastly I needed something to secure the guide inside of the box.
I bought some high quality 350gsm card to make an inner box for the guide.

I marked out and cut away the relief angles 










I then started to fold the box into position and used double sided tape to hold it together.






With the card box held together I made another piece of oak to sit in the bottom of the box. I made this with a cut out so the guide could sit tightly inside of it.

I then glued the oak into the card box using scrap pieces of MDF to hold the box in position.






I then screwed the card box securely in place to the oak base.

I made a smaller card box in a similar fashion to hold the indexing plates and then added some foam to the box to hold the guide in place.
I later covered the foam in faux suede to finish the inside of the box.






And very lastly I could assemble the guide!


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

After a final polish up I had to take some pictures before its first use.









































































This project turned out to be a lot more work than I had anticipated but I really enjoyed making it.
It threw up a few challenges along the way but I like to come up with ways to try and get over them, that's part of the fun!

Thanks for taking the time to read through this post and I hope you have found it interesting.

Below is a video demonstrating the guide in use if you’re interested to see how it works.



Cheers
Dan.


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## IWW

Dan, that toothing jig is an amazingly clever bit of work! You haven't shown the underside of the jig, but I assume the thin plate on the"inside" is what catches in the preceding saw cut? I get the general principal ok (I think!). I had a twinge of envy watching you working on small teeth without any visual aids - a head loupe has been mandatory for me for many a year - even for 10-12 tpi! 

Marking out from a paper template is tedious, but I don't find it too hard to do with a needle file up to 18tpi. You can usually correct small errors when filing to depth. I like to cut the teeth progressively, just making one or two strokes per tooth depending on size, because I find it easier to watch the diminishing flats & make any necessary corrections as I go. Cutting to full depth before moving to the next tooth is a sure recipe for cows & calves for me. I don't like paper templates much either, but occasionally find it necessary, when setting out a spacing for whivch I don't have a metal guide. If you have to use paper, strip it off as soon as you have set out, otherwise the paper gets in the file teeth & makes it harder to file consistently.

I don't know how you blokes persuade a hacksaw to cut saw plate effctively - you must get better blades in your part of the world. I tried hacksawing out the plate for the first saw I made, many years ago, & apart from the intolerable screeching, the number of blades I went through was ridiculous. I would have given up any thoughts of making saws if someone hadn't directed me to 1mm cutoff wheels! 

I was surprised when you said the needle files have too big a radius to cut 20tpi teeth. I have found them to have much sharper corners than the supposed 4" DEST files I can get here (which last less than half as long as the Grobets!) I rarely cut teeth finer than 18tpi, for which a #4 Grobet is adequate imo. Out of curiosity, I grabbed an old 24pi hacksaw blade for a template, and toothed up a bit of shim plate just to see what the geometry looked like:




The piece is only 0.010" thick and despite the well-used 4-cut file I used, it still only needed 2 strokes to cut each tooth on such thin material. This illustrates what I said earlier about being hard to keep consistent if you cut the teeth all at once. Because I just wanted to see what the gullets would look like, I made both strokes before moving on & as you can see, my teeth are a bit uneven. The gullets are maybe a teeny bit bigger in area than the teeth, but they are within my tolerance range. However, I would agree they are at or about the limit for this tooth size - I'd want something finer in the (highly unlikely) event I wished to cut 32tpi. Some argue that a large gullet is actually good because it carries more sawdust and the rounded bottoms resist tooth-cracking better, but like you, I'm not too keen on saws that are all rounded gullet & tiny little stubs of teeth either.

Keep up the good work!
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks Ian.

Yes the second plate back hangs down by 1.5mm so as to catch in the saw cut.
You can just make it out in this photo.







I use eclipse junior hacksaw blades to cut the notches. I knock the set off of them completely and grind down half way of the first inch of teeth.
This gets the cuts as narrow as possibly and grinding the teeth helps the saw to start.

I did manage to cut one of my saw plates with a hacksaw and a 32tpi blade but I had to keep it low in the vice to stop it screeching and binding, I could only cut a few mm at a time then I had to reposition it in the vice, it took forever!

I used an angle grinder after that but to be honest I'm not fond of them, too noisy and messy.

I too was surprised by the profile on the Vallorbe. I had another look at it today and took some pictures next to the Bahco for reference. 

The Bahco is on the left. You can see how much wider the Vallorbe is on the "narrow" edge compared to the Bahco.






The Bahco comes to a much finer edge, which I felt made it better for higher TPI sets. Same as you I don't like small pointy teeth with huge gullets, I find they "grab" more 











I'd also forgotten that I had already bought a Vallorbe file previously so compared the older one with the newer one.
Bought from the same place under the same listing just at different times.


You can see the older one (which is on the left) comes to a finer edge to. So I'm not sure what's going on with the new vallorbe file, maybe a duff?
Pretty sure its a genuine Vallorbe, it has all the same markings as the slightly older one. 






They are great files nonetheless. Very high quality finish and cut very nicely, like I say I think they would be best suited to saws around 12tpi

However I think the Bahco will be my new favourite for saw sharpening, I'm really impressed with it, cuts brilliantly and has the best profile for me for higher tpi saws.

It may even cut 32tpi but I don't want to go there......yet 

Good tips on not cutting the teeth to full depth as you go. Like you say it's better to do a few strokes then come back and refine them once they are set out, this way you give yourself the best chance of getting them even.

Thanks again for your reply I really appreciate it.

Cheers.


----------



## Jameshow

Can we have a picture of your teeth cut??? 

I think I'll get a bahco once my cheapo one wears out.

Cheers James


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## Jameshow

Nice work!!

I think I'll get a bahco once my cheapo one wears out.

Cheers James
[/QUOTE]


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks James.

Hard to get a good picture on my phone in bad light.

This one is the gents saw shown in the video at 20tpi.







And this is my 16tpi gent saw cut with the first guide I made.






I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Bahco, I'm finding it to be great file.


----------



## IWW

Dan, I think I can offer a solution to the puzzle - we are comparing apples & oranges!

Those Grobets you show have very coarse teeth & I suspect you have either a 1 or a 2 cut, much coarser than the 4 cut I normally use. With needle files, the teeth get finer & the corners sharper as the number increases. Here is a picture of two 150mm Grobets, a 6-cut (left) and a 4-cut in the centre, beside a 5 inch DEST Bahco (that's the finest I have & it will be a notch or two coarser than a 4 inch DEST).






The 6 cut is well-worn and looks less sharp than it was new but I think you can still see the difference clearly enough to make the point. The Bahco is not as fine as yours, of course, I use these up to 12tpi only.

I find Bahcos to be the best of a poor lot as far as regular files go. At least most batches I get are usable, but they are always a bit brittle for my purposes, and the corners chip quickly, especially when cutting teeth from scratch. I used this file a couple of days ago to re-form the teeth on a 250mm 12 tpi saw after a heavy topping:





As you can see, there is much chipping, especially at the point where the stroke is started & this corner of the file has done its dash. Chipped teeth tend to catch & skip & make it difficult to keep the strokes smooth & consistent.

There was much moaning about the poor quality of files on forums around the world about 10 years ago. I got to a point where I was using up two files to cut a set of teeth in a 300mm 12tpi saw! They have all lifted their game since, but imo, they are still a long ways from the files we got 30-40 years ago. And I don't think that's just nostalgia or faulty memory; I occasionally get my hands on NOS Wiltshires or Nicholsons from the 60s or 70s and these files tend to go 2-3 times the distance of the new ones....
Cheers,
Ian

PS: Forgot to compliment you on your teeth - you've done an excellent job!. I reckon you could set yourself up as a saw doc & earn a few bob on the side.....


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers Ian 

Thanks for the info on the files, for some reason I've always thought needle and saw files only came in a fine cut.

I'm unsure what cut mine are as it doesn't say on the listing but I've just looked on another web site and it seems the available cuts are 0, 2 and 4.

I may pick up a 4 to compare , as looking at mine I assume they are either a 0 or 2?

I'm still a little confused as to why my two Vallorbe's have such different profiles though. Both bought under the same listing but one of them has double the edge radius of the other. I can only think it was a duff that got through quality control?

Either way they both cut nicely and I'll probably grind a safety face on the duff one and use it for a corner file as my current cheapo one is getting dull.

Cheers.

Oh just to add, I'd heard about the poor quality files that where coming out some years ago.
I was fortunate enough to be given some old Stubbs and Nicholson saw files, the double ended ones of various sizes and probably from the 60s if not earlier. Most had hardly been used if ever and after a vinegar bath they came up like new. 
I use the larger ones more on my planes than saws but there is one 6" extra slim which I'm saving to use on a saw.
The quality on these older files is great, even after all these years they are holding an edge and cutting amazingly well. Why can't they make them like this anymore.


----------



## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> I'm unsure what cut mine are as it doesn't say on the listing but I've just looked on another web site and it seems the available cuts are 0, 2 and 4.
> 
> I may pick up a 4 to compare , as looking at mine I assume they are either a 0 or 2?
> 
> I'm still a little confused as to why my two Vallorbe's have such different profiles though. Both bought under the same listing but one of them has double the edge radius of the other. I can only think it was a duff that got through quality control? .....



Dan, if your files are genuine Grobets, the cut number should be stamped on the handle. It's somewhat random just where the number appears, but it will be there somewhere (I have had a few where the stamp didn't hit properly & it was hard to read). I strongly suspect your two files are different cuts and definitely at the coarse end. Grobet are a very old, very reputable company & I can't imagine they would allow a sub-standard out, though of course Murphy's law must apply in Switzerland just as it does anywhere else... 

I like he 4s for cutting teeth, but I usually keep a #6 for the really fine stuff. They leave an almost polished surface & it's a bit easier to control a #6 when sharpening very fine teeth. They still cut surprisingly fast on thin plate, though. However, the 4 cut does a good job, & in my opinion, is adequate for teeth up to 24tpi, so it's the one to have on hand if you don't go beyond about 20tpi...

Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the info Ian. Think I'll keep an eye out for a 6 and 4 cut to add to the collection.

I had another look at my files today and both are stamped with a 2.






and another picture of the two, somethings definitely not right with the one on the right.






But even the one on the left doesn't come to as sharp a corner as the Bahco. Could be the Bahco is a finer cut like you've mentioned.
I'd like to get hold of a 6 cut Vallorbe to compare but I've yet to find any where that sells one.


----------



## IWW

Yes, that's a pretty big difference alright, much more than Grobet should be happy with! I'm most surprised, I have used a lot of Grobets over the years & always found them to be very consistent, file to file & batch to batch, whereas the big brands, when they first went "offshore", were all over the place - you'd get at least that much variation in the same box of 10 files. I really hope your file was a mistake & got the wrong stamp or something that, & not a harbinger of declining quality! If it were really an "0" or a "1", the teeth should be a little coarser, but I can't see any difference in your photo (though the difference would be small & probably not discernible without more magnification). 

If small teeth are going to be your thing, definitely try to get a couple of 6s, but 4s will manage 24tpi ok,as demonstrated. The slightly slower-cutting of the 6s is a bit easier to control in small teeth, & they do leave a very slightly cleaner surface. OTH, if the Bahcos are fit for purpose & less expensive, stick with what you know works.... 
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Droogs

@Hattori-Hanzo Just to let you know my dog now hates you as he's had to wait an hour for me to take him out for a poo cos I started watching your saw tooth jig vid  excellent work Dan


----------



## Droogs

In the Video the shape of the valorbe and those from Tome Fetiera are to give you the proper size gullet in the tooth profile. You are using the wrong size file to create your 18 and 22 tpi. XXXslim is for 18TPI and above, they are hard to gt though esp in the UK

Also you need to take a steady full length stroke of the file not wiggle it as you do in the video. not getting at you just pointing out a way to improve your teeth profile and prolong the life of the file


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers Droogs, glad you liked the video, hope your dogs feeling better now 

No worries I'm always open to advice. I normally try to use the full length of a file to even out wear when filing other things but sort of get into a rhythm with saw sharpening that seems to help with angle consistency. I'm no expert so will definitely try to work on my technique in the future.

I was not aware of a triple x slim saw files, I thought double extra slim was the smallest.
I have a double extra slim Nicholson saw file which is pretty comparable to the Bahco in profile.

I had a quick look for triple x saw files but didn't turn up much. 
Although a lot of mention of a 4" double extra slim maybe appropriate for 22tpi and above?
But even those seem elusive. 

I also read sizing is not consistent between brands so maybe pot luck, guess I'll just have to buy a lot more files 

Cheers.


----------



## Droogs

Dan what you are looking for for the fine saws is these for XXX
Manufacturer: Pferd Order No: 1239 EAN: 328286
Ultra slim tapers

comes in a box of 10


*PFERD LTD.*
4 Westleigh Hall, Wakefield Road Denby Dale 
HD88QJ West Yorkshire Telephone: +44 1484 866149 Fax: +44 1484 865938 E-mail:  [email protected]  

your closest known dealer is

*Wellington Welding Supplies Ltd *
Unit 25 Mitchell Close
PO15 5SE Fareham
Tel.: +44 1489 573548
Fax: +44 1489 564610
E-mail: [email protected]
URL: Welding Supplies | MIG Welders | TIG Welders | Welding Equipment


----------



## IWW

I was going to make a comment on the "unconventional" filing technique in the video too, but I always hesitate to criticize someone else's methods - my motto is what works for you works for you. I was schooled by a fitter uncle who would've clipped be over the ear if he saw me dragging a file backwards over the work - it's supposed to wear out the file quicker. Not sure how true that is, because the 'lessons' were so drilled into me I rarely do it. One day I'll have to do a trial & see what difference it really does make (if I can overcome my fear of having my ear clipped by a ghost & after I figure out how to objectively assess any difference!) 

For myself, I do know that by using deliberate, separate, strokes I can maintain consistency better. With very small teeth, lifting the file for the return stroke is a bit of a pain because you have to drop it back in the right spot each time, adding to the difficulty for an optically-challenged old git like me. Fortunately, it only takes a couple of strokes to form the gullet for tiny teeth & as mentioned above, I like to do my toothing in stages so I can watch the flats & make any necessary corrections. For large teeth, I make two or three strokes per tooth depending on size, just enough to make it clear which tooth has been filed before moving to the next.

There is also endless debate about whether you should file alternate teeth on rip saws from opposite sides and if you do, which alternate gullets you should file from which side. Frankly, I don't find any of the reasons given by exponents of any particular style convincing, there are pros & cons however you approach it. I mostly file rip teeth (particularly small ones) from the same side because I find it much easier to maintain a constant rake angle - most of us tend to bias the file a little, & that will double the difference when you file from opposite sides. You can use a guide, of course, but they are a nuisance when just a quick touch-up is required, I only use a guide when toothing fresh plate, or re-forming a set of very badly messed-up teeth after a heavy topping.

My advice is always to chose a method that seems logical to you, & stick at it 'til you can do a satisfaactory job. If you sharpen enough saws you will undoubtedly change & refine your technique over time, that's natural.....
Cheers,
Ian


----------



## Nigel Burden

With regard to drawing the file back after the forward stroke, AES of this forum, has this to say in his very comprehensive post on files and filing.

At the end of the forward stoke, the cutting action must be disengaged from the work. In the picture below I've exaggerated this, trying to show the file lifted well clear of the job. In fact this exaggerated lifting is not necessary - it's actually _not_ desirable, as light contact with the job should be maintained on the return stroke. You'll soon get into a slow, steady rhythm where the downwards pressure on the file is relaxed as the file comes to the end of the forward stroke and then starts drawing back to the starting position - with _almost no _downwards pressure applied. This "light pressure disengagement" of the file from the job is very important as it's this action which allows the chips to be cleared ready for the teeth to start the next forward stroke without being clogged up. 

Nigel.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hi again all, it's been a little while since my last update but like they say "time flies when you're having fun"...or not so much if you're stuck in the gloom of yet another lockdown.
I hope every one is keeping well and staying safe, we surely must be getting close to having some form of normality back.
I have been enjoying the Benchtalk series, so that's one good thing to come out of all this.

I've been trying my hand at plane making again, hopefully this time with something a "little" different.

I've been interested in making a luthier plane for many years after watching a video of a guitar maker constructing sound boards and bracing.
I'm not musically inclined but it was fascinating work. The use of small planes to shape the boards and bracing to change the sound of the guitar was a nice example of skilled craftsmanship. 

As usual before starting I searched for luthier thumb planes and a few examples stood out but non so much as the brilliant Scarab plane by Oliver Sparks.
I've been looking through Ollies work ever since I started making my first plane and I find his work so inspiring, it's exceptional quality and his eye for design is on another level. In my eyes he's certainly up there with the best plane makers.

I didn't want to copy Ollies plane exactly but I certainly based mine on his design and you will see some similarities.

I saw that a lot of luthier planes had curved soles for shaping, but I decided to keep my first attempt with a flat sole, mostly as it made it easier to make and because mine wouldn't be used as a true luthiers plane but more a very small thumb plane.

I started this plane before Christmas and working through my lunch breaks only finished it this weekend. 
Although it's small size would suggest it would be easier to make this has probably been one of the hardest planes I've made so far, and certainly the most difficult to peen without a doubt! 

Unusually I've got the finished photos ready before the build photo's, there is a mountain of photos to go through and I'll hopefully post a build log soon too.

I'm really pleased with how this plane turned out, and for such a small plane it works very nicely. There are of course some things I'd like to improve upon but the majority of the build went smoothly and according to plan (which was a nice change )

As always I welcome any comments and critique. I'm hoping the more you look at it the more you'll wonder how it's made.

Starting with the box which is made from oak and padauk. Finished with French polish.






Mitred construction with the padauk liner.






I left the gap as a design feature but It also servers to aid opening the box






The top half of the box lifts off to reveal the plane inside.











I had some new stencils made and etched my name onto the back of the blade.






Also designed a new makers mark for the front of the blade.






The plane is made from brass and 01 tool steel with padauk infills and wedge.
I left the sap in the wood as I thought it looked quite striking.






I French polished the wedge and infills






Dovetailed sole with through tenon at the rear.











The sole dovetails and round tenon at the rear. the small dovetails near the back are only 4mm wide, the chance of snapping them off when peening was high!











I flattened the sole and polished it to a high shine






I designed and added this feature to the top of the blade with the intention to carry it on, onto future planes but considering the amount of time it took to hand file it I may change my mind on that one 






Standing next to a ten pence for a reference of scale











It sits nicely in the hand





Closer look at the etching on the back of the blade. I think its pushing the limits of vinyl etching at this size, cutting and weeding the stencils was delicate work.






I added a little cupids bow to the bottom of the wedge in homage to Mr Carter who always honours me with replies to my e-mails.
















The wedge is held in place with a rod of silver steel peened through the sides.











Thanks for taking the time to look through my builds so far, this will likely be the last one for the foreseeable future as my work has put an end to any private work for insurance reasons. I'm hoping to sort something out in the summer so I can continue with my passion.

Cheers
Dan.


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## Bm101

I hope you can find a means to an end Dan and an exit from your situation to a better point. It will come. Just keep pushing.
More stunning stunning work! I'm not even at the skill level I can begin to discuss this sort of tool. Incredible. Thanks for posting, is there a need for tools this beautiful? I don't know. Is the world better for it. No doubt. Stunning achievement. All the beauty in one tiny place.
Regards
Chris


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## thetyreman

that's a gorgeous little plane daniel! I've also been enjoying bench talk 101 a lot, couldn't make the last one but hope to be in the next one.


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## Droogs

Excellent work yet again Dan, may have to start calling you the Hugh Heffner of planes lol


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## foxbat

Stunning! (and the box makes it even better!!)


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks guys, really do appreciate the comments.
Have to say I am really pleased with how it turned out.


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## sploo

Ludicrously good. Would love to see some build photos if you took any.


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## Ttrees

As usual great work Daniel.
The new logos looks really good to my eyes, very crisp and neat design.
Tom


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers guys 

I'm slowly working my way through the build photos, there's hundreds so I'm weeding out the duplicates, will post up part 1 soon.

Thanks Ttrees, I spent ages and ages trying to come up with a fancy design/logo that I thought would suit but in the end keeping it simple looked best to me.
Think I've settled on this design for the time being but I do like to change things up every now and then 

Thanks again for all the support and likes every one.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

This project started in the usual fashion, with a quick sketch and a lump of aluminium.







I marked the inner dimensions of the planes body onto the aluminium then cut and filed it to shape. I will later use this as the forming block for the plane.






With the form filed I used a thick piece of card to template out the dovetails. I could easily bend the card around the form to work out the spacings.






I then transferred them to the brass






I began to cut straight lines that will later form the dovetails. I make a series of cuts then use a punch to knock out the waste. I've found this to be the fastest and easiest method for removing the waste metal.






I also marked out and cut the dovetails at the end of the brass.
You will notice these dovetails are cut at a much shallower angle than usual, the reason for which will become apparent later.






Next I filed a small amount away from each straight cut to form the dovetails.






I spent a long time carefully filing each dovetail to ensure the beds where flat and the dovetails where as clean as possible.

I could then start bending the brass around my aluminium former.
Ensuring the centre marks where lined up I secured it in the vice and began to bend by hand.






This is as far as I got before my arms gave up. Even at 2.5mm thin the brass puts up a good fight!






I used a selection of cramps and wooden blocks to pull the last bit up.






I went with 2.5mm thick brass as it's a tight radius and I feared any thing thicker wouldn't conform to such a contour.
Even at this thickness it was difficult to form the brass exactly , partly because of the tight curve but also because it's very difficult to hold something this small while trying to apply a lot of force onto it.

In the end after a lot of work I was happy with the result.






Already I was a good few hours into the project.....no going back now!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the plane body now formed I started to make the back brace.
I cut a piece of 01 tool steel and started to form the dovetails to match the body.






This turned out to be a little more difficult than I had expected as the shoulders of the dovetails had to be curved to follow the curve of the plane body, along with the back face slightly tapered.
After a lot of careful filing they started to fit. This process was made even more tricky due to the spring back from the body.






I was expecting a small amount of spring back from the body and this was the reason why I cut these dovetails at a steeper angle.
I hoped that the pressure from peening would help to force the shoulders tight at the top and bottom of the plane body.
I feared had I cut these any shallower the spring back from the body would have caused gaps between the brace and body on the shoulders.

Next came the first stages of peening and the first doubts that this project may fail.
One thing I've learnt along the way is that accurate peening is difficult, and in some situations it's better to use a rounded punch with light blows from a heavy hammer than wild swings from a lighter one.
It's also crucially important to hold the work piece rigid and have the opposite point of impact most supported, this is difficult to do when the piece being worked is curved.

I tried several ways of holding the body without distorting it so I could use my rounded punch but as soon as the first strike came the body would either slip loose or distort. 
In the end I resorted to wedging the body against a steel upright and using light blows direct from the hammer. Wedging the body against something stopped it from slipping away and the impact point was directly underneath where I was peening.






finally after a lot of apprehension the peening was done, It was easily one of the most difficult things I've peened so far. Holding the plane still with one hand coupled with it's small size meant I was peening blind, It took a lot of careful well placed blows with the constant fear in the back of my mind that if I miss hit there was a very likely chance I would snap off one of the brass dovetails, or at least irreversibly bend it out of shape.

Thankfully after a lot of sweating the peening was done.
The steep dovetails had worked and the brass was forced up tight to the braces shoulders...what a relief 






With the body permanently fixed in position I could start work on the sole.
I cut a piece of 01 tool steel and clamped the body to it so I could accurately scribe around the dovetails.






Marking the waste I cut away the surplus metal and shaped the sole to allow enough for peening later.






I cut a series of notches as before and tapped out the waste with a punch.











Then filed down to my scribe lines






Again after a lot of test fits and careful filing the sole was fitted.


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## IWW

Blimey Dan, you don't _ever _take the easy road, do you!? 

I doubt anyone who hasn't made a plane or two themselves could fully appreciate just what a remarkable job you've done. The size alone would be challenging enough for me, but the thought of bending up that elegant egg shape sufficiently accurately would stop me before I began. And this is your 4th? metal plane? By pushing yourself so hard you've developed at an incredible rate (& your detailing gets more fancy with every production!). I guess having some obvious innate skill didn't hurt, either...

I've been at it quite a few years more than you, but my progress has been far less spectacular. I've made a few very small planes, starting with straight-soled parallel-sided versions & finally progressing to curved sides, but these curves are relatively easy to manage: 


At 75mm, it's probably twice the size of your baby, but still a more fussy size to work on compared with a "full-size" plane.

The tight mouth makes it a good little performer despite the single-iron blade:


The cutter in the pic has since been replaced with a slightly longer one to make adjustment easier. Infill is from scraps of Rosewood I'd had kicking about since before CITES.

I didn't think such small planes would be very useful in cabinet work, but now I don't know how I got along without it, it's very handy for all sorts of little jobs & gets regular workouts. I've since made one slightly bigger (100mm long) in the same style, but this little thing gets more use than its bigger sister/brother...

I hope you get to pursue this passion, maybe there's a living in it for you someday? Someone has to fill the void when the current generation of top-flight makers retire... 

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for your post Ian, really appreciate all you've said and the encouragement to continue  

That's a beautiful plane you've made, I bet it works a treat. the dovetailing and styling look amazing, I like how the front bun comes back on it's self rather than going straight up or forward.

I've fancied having a go at a coffin smoother for a while but it's one of those planes that demands a nicely figured piece of wood or something exotic like your rosewood. Nice timbers are getting so hard to obtain now and becoming very expensive.

Konrad makes them so well I don't think I'd come close 

How did you create the curve on the sides, did you bend then round a former first?

Cheers.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the sole of the plane fitted I could move onto cutting the mouth opening.

Because the blade sits bevel down I could cut the mouth opening with the sole as one piece, rather than having to split the sole into two pieces like with bevel up planes. 
I made a wooden block shaped at the same angle the blade will sit at.






I drilled a series of holes narrower than the desired mouth opening but large enough to fit a small file in.






From there I started to file the mouth, being careful to only remove material from the back edge of the opening. Removing to much metal from the front of the opening at this stage could adversely affect the mouth opening.






Once I had filed enough material away I could insert my wooden block and use it as a guide to start filing at the correct angle.






A lengthy amount of time later it was starting to take shape






After a little more refinement I could start to peen the sole onto the body.
The flat top to the plane body made it a lot easier to work on, this time round I could use my punch as intended.






Using the punch enables me to make controlled strikes which in turn makes it easier to move the metal in the desired direction.






With the sole dovetails secured I could move onto the outside of the body.

I had to get creative again with holding the body as the curved shape made it difficult to peen on a flat surface.
I inserted a piece of steel round bar into the body and then used a large penny washer on the underside of the sole while clamping it tightly in the vice.
This held the body firmly enough for me to peen the steel dovetails. 
The clamping force needed was high and it was pushing my tiny 3" vice to the limit. I had to wedge a lump of wood under the vice to reduce bounce back when hammering.






The next day, as luck would have it and after years of searching I finally struck lucky on a large engineering vice, bit of an upgrade  Did my back in lifting it though!






This made peening a lot easier and after a few more hours of refinement and an initial clean up the dovetails where starting to take shape.


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> .....
> Konrad makes them so well I don't think I'd come close  .....



His work is flawless and he has a great eye for style (imo), but you're making amazing progress. Don't underestimate yourself! 




Hattori-Hanzo said:


> ......How did you create the curve on the sides, did you bend then round a former first? .....



Yes, that's the standard procedure. Some advocate bending before cutting out the side profile to avoid kinking of the narrow sections, but that makes it much harder to saw & refine the shape, so I prefer to cut out first, then bend. I use a form like this: 


Used with care it minimises the risk of kinking. Takes a bit of trial & error to make a form for a one-off because you never quite know how much extra curve to put on the form to compensate for spring-back. Different brass alloys will 'spring' more or less, and even different batches of the supposed same alloy can behave a little differently so I can't give you any precise formulas for calculating the amount of "extra" bend for the form.

I shouldn't clutter your thread with side issues - maybe I should post a "WIP" on how I go about curved sides in a separate thread. Someone may well have a better method.... 
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers Ian, that's how I'd imagine you'd do it. I assume a small amount of spring back isn't an issue as it will conform to the shape of the sole once peened any way?
Or did you shape the sole to the sides after they where bent?

I'd be interested to see a build log on your coffin plane for sure.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Next up I moved onto the bed of the plane.
I cut and shaped a piece of padauk to fit into the body. I cut an initial bed angle on it but this will be changed slightly later once I have the blade made and can see the bedding angle better.






Next I cut a chunk from a piece of round bar






Then cut a flat on one side, this piece will form the back of the plane.






After some filing and test fitting it sat tightly in place.
It was important to get this join as clean as possible as any gap would spoil the seamless shape of the body.






Once I was happy with the fit I clamped the two pieces together and drilled a hole through the sole and into the brass.






I then drilled and tapped the hole.






I threaded a small piece of brass rod and secured it into the brass piece with high strength lock tight.
I then drilled and tapped another hole,






This hole accepts a small pan head bolt which pulls the brass piece tightly against the back of the body, again once tight was secured with high strength lock tight.






With the back piece semi fixed in place I could flip the plane over and peen the brass rod to permanently secure it in place.






Finishing by filing it down flush with the rest of the body.






I then had to remove a small section from the back of the bed, 






to enable it to fit over the head of the pan headed bolt.


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## Bm101

I don't want to blow too hard but I just _love_ this thread. Between your progress and Ian's advice it its just a constant pleasure and a learning curve that pushes the possible boundaries of where I see my occasional attempts going.
Wishful thinking but a valid point. Our own targets are increased exponentially when we see the work of others. Custard for example has always made me think, More! Better! Don't be happy with OK! Slow down and expect more, work harder. Be _better_!
The accuracy of your work is boggling! I've done a small amount of metal work, filing, peining etc, _just_ enough to realise the quality and difficulty of what you are doing. I honestly brighten up when I see this thread updated. Really. No flattery intended, no false praise. Just love it. It is a real pleasure reading, to the point I save it till a relaxed time of evening. Thanks for posting and taking the time to update on your progress.
Best as always
Chris


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hey Chris, thank you so much for following my progress and taking the time to reply, honestly I appreciate it so much.

I pour so much of my time into these projects, from making them to photographing and write ups, mostly for my own pleasure and curiosity but it is really nice to read encouraging messages, they really do help to drive me to continue to make more things.

Cheers.


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## Bm101

I reckon you'd be surprised how many people take a lot of pleasure reading your threads. The silent lurkers who never post. Anyway. Just saying. Thanks for sharing.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the majority of the peening work done on the body I could start to shape it.

After a lot of pencil scribbles I settled on a design I liked and went at it with hand files.






After removing the bulk of material with files I was getting tired/lazy so came up with another way to finish off the larger curve.
No bobbin sander any more so I made this quick thing, it's just two pieces of aluminium tube slid over a length of threaded rod and a bunch of washers.
One end goes into the drill chuck while you can use the other end as a handle.
It worked surprisingly well, but I still had to finish by hand of course 






With the shapes roughly laid out I could fit the silver steel bar into the body and add a chamfer to the back of the plane.






The steel rod is a tight fit in the hole, then It's peened to hold it permanently in place.






Next I moved onto the blade. Cutting a length of 4mm 01 tool steel, it never gets any easier and a reminder I need some new hacksaw blades!






I also started to design the top of the blade. I went through a lot of different ideas before settling on this one. This was an early iteration, after a few more changes I had one I liked.






I printed the design out and stuck it to the blade blank so I could use it as a template to file to.






constantly checking progress under the template. The diamond was trickier to cut that I had anticipated, with my smallest needle file just barely fitting.






Eventually I got the shape done. Like I mentioned earlier I had intentions of carrying this design onto future planes but it took a lengthy amount of time to get this done and improvements are still to be made, but as a wise man kept telling me "you only get better with practise" so maybe I should 






lastly I added a few bevel details to soften the edges






And a quick clean up before the next stage.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the blade shaped I could begin to heat treat it.

I covered the blade with borax (using some thin gauge wire to help hold it to the blade) as a make shift anti scale compound.






I then fired up the tin can forge, using a mapp gas torch as the fuel.

I have a magnet screwed to a piece of wood to test the blade once it starts getting to critical temperature and a tin of pre heated vegetable oil to quench the blade in.






I was doing some more reading on heat treating 01 tool steel and the "normalizing" process.
Essentially heating the blade to just over critical temperature then letting it air cool fully, repeating the process 2 or 3 times.
My basic understanding it it's meant to help relieve stresses in the metal and improve the grain structure.
It's difficult to know if the correct temperatures are being reached in a diy tin forge, and some say it isn't entirely necessary with pre annealed steels but a few cycles certainly shouldn't harm the blade.






After the final heating and quenching I tempered the blade in an oven.
Lastly I cleaned it up, ground the bevel and honed it sharp.
It seems to hold a very keen edge so I'm happy with the results.






I could then add my new makers marks using stencils and electro etching.






Using an old battery charger and a salt water solution to apply the etch.






And finally after another clean up it was finished.


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## marcros

how long does the etching process take? is it restricted to steel, or would it work on other metals too?


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Hey Marcros

The etching it's self is quite quick depending on the voltage you use. 
These where done with a 7.2v battery charger and took around 10 minutes to fully etch.
I also have a 12v charger which will etch deeper a lot quicker.

If you wanted a light etch it would only take a few minutes. 
The deeper the etch the longer it takes and you also risk losing edge definition. 

The hard part is getting hold of the stencils, then weeding and laying them can take ages.

I think electro etching works on most metals though you need to change the metal salt to match the metal you are etching.

Ferrous sulfate (Rock salt) works well for steels, if you want to etch brass or copper you would need a copper sulfate solution.

You can also use the same vinyl stencils and ferric chloride to etch non ferrous metals like brass, which is how I did the marks on my gents saw sheaths.

Hope that helps
Cheers
Dan.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the blade finished I could start working on the wedge.

I had a piece of padauk that had a small amount of contrasting sapwood which I thought would look nice in the wedge.
I cut the wedge out and started shaping it with a coping saw and files.






With the wedge partially formed I added a small cupids bow detail to the end.






After test fitting the wedge to make sure it was seating uniformly with the blade I cut a small piece of matching padauk for the front infill of the plane body.






I then glued the front infill and bed into the body using strong epoxy.
I cut some small wedges to hold them in position while the glue cured.






Once the epoxy had cured I used my makeshift sander to blend the padauk infill to the body.






And finished the curved end to the wedge.






I was now ready to start flattening the sole of the plane. I masked up the padauk to prevent it getting dirty while lapping the sole.
I started on a piece of sheet glass with 180 grit wet and dry paper, then moved up through the grits to a 400 grit diamond stone.






I went up to 1000 grit diamond stone, the sole was starting to get a nice flat sheen.






Lastly I gave the sole a quick polish with a strop and some metal polish compound.


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## IWW

Very satisfying polish you have there, Dan, but it won't last if you use the plane... 

There was a time when I read too many magazine articles & felt my plane bottoms should all be shiny & flattened to Hubble telescope tolerances. That meant hours of work on even a medium sized sole. Advancing age & decreasing endurance have modified my opinion a lot on that score. I certainly don't lap beyond 240 grit these days, the scratches left by 240 grit are about the same or slightly finer than our abrasive woods create in use, so there is little point in polishing any more than that. My acid test for a smoother is if it will take full-width, .001" shavings from end to end of a flattened board. If it will, it's done, as far as I'm concerned.

I've just re-habbed an old type 11 #4, which some clown must have hit with a belt sander at some stage in the past. Initial passes over 180 grit showed high & low spots all over. After a half-hour of lapping, the heel & the part of the toe just in front of the mouth are essentially flat, but there is a big dip extending between 12 & 20mm back along the front of the toe. There are also some small chips on the front of the mouth that I will never be able to clean up: 



I needed a break at that stage, so out of curiosity, I tested the plane (on some wood that would be unknown in your parts but it's about the same as Beech to plane). Lo & behold! Even,1 thou shavings from end to end. 


That surprised me a little, and I'll have another go at getting the sole flat all the way to the toe on some rainy afternoon when I'm bored, but in the meantime, it will serve me well enough....

Jacob will be 'liking' me at this rate.... 
Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Cheers Ian. Polishing the sole was definitely a pursuit in vanity, I did it mainly for the finished photos. Like you've said, even after a little use it's lost it's shine, though it's certainly been the quickest plane that I've lapped so far. I remember the first plane I made I spent 3 days lapping it! My arms shudder at the thought of doing that again 

Cheers.


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## IWW

Hattori-Hanzo said:


> .........I remember the first plane I made I spent 3 days lapping it! My arms shudder at the thought of doing that again  .....



 Yep, know that feeling well!
I've done _two _panel-planes - you'd think I would have learnt after the first. My shoulders still ache every time I look at them, but are soothed by how well they perform, so I'm getting over it. It's no coincidence, perhaps, that since then I've done a string of minis & nothing larger than the English thumb plane I showed a while back, but someone recently gifted me a piece of 5mm stainless steel plate that should make a very nice sole for a smoother. 

I'm weakening.....

Cheers,
Ian


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the body of the plane complete I could move onto finishing the infills and wedge.
I used masking tape to cover the brass to prevent the finish going onto it.






I then pulled out my finest Douwe Egberts French polish. A mix of blonde shellac flakes and denatured alcohol.






I applied the French polish with a simple rubber to the wedge, building several coats.






I used a small piece of cotton pad to polish the infills as the rubber was too large.






I kept building the layers of shellac, around ten or so, then left it to harden






before finally spiriting off with a higher ration alcohol to shellac






The plane was now nearing completion, I took a picture of it next to my record block plane for comparison.


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## Fred48

Amazing craftsmanship. I'm really enjoying reading this. Thank you.


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## Hattori-Hanzo

With the plane nearly done I was eager to take a shaving.

I was pleased to see it make a cut but the mouth needed some refinement, I used a barrette file to ease it slightly.






With that done I could move onto the box.
I mitred some piece of oak and used masking tape to pull it all together to check the joins.






Once I was happy I then mitred the top and bot of the box






Again using masking tape to pull it all together while the glue dried.






I made the padauk liner in a similar fashion but no need for the top and bottom on this one. Once the glue had dried I polished the seen area leaving a part unfished to be glued to the inside of the oak box.






With the oak box glued together I could cut it in half at the desired angle and begin to polish it.






Next I started to make the retainer for the plane, I removed most of the waste with a forstner bit






Then removed the rest on the band saw before cleaning up with hand files and adding a rebate around the outside.






I could then assemble the box and fully French polish it.






I finished the retainer in black paint and added black card to the top and bottom of the box to finish it,






and finally the plane and box were complete.






I really enjoyed making this one, the curved shape and small size threw up quite a lot of challenges but it was very satisfying thinking of ways to overcome them and to see the plane progress how I had envisioned it.

I couldn't get any video of making the plane but I've done a short clip of it in use if you're interested to see.
Cheers, Dan.



[youtube]v=0DgMm5c5[youtube//]


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## Droogs

Outstanding Dan, really well done with that little beauty. You will get a lot of joy using that from now on.


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## thetyreman

beautiful plane and an equally nice box to match it as well!


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## Hattori-Hanzo

Thanks for the replies chaps and all the likes, really appreciate all your support


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