# Preparation for project involving timber cladding....



## Anonymous (22 Aug 2005)

I am in the process of buying a house and want to place a 40' shipping container in the back garden, convert it into an office - cladding it with timber in the process.

Its with regard to the timber cladding people here might be able to give me some pointers on. I want to achieve a similar sort of effect as shown in the pic on this webpage. Considering that I don't want to bore into the container itself during the cladding process, how can I best go about this?

- What timber would be best suited?
- Back of fag pack costings anyone?
- If anyone has come accross a diy manual/guide which covered a similar type of project, I would appreciate it if you could post details.
- As a plain old container would look unsightly, I need to get this clad ASAP once the container is put in place (or the neighbours would be likely to lynch me). What prep could i do pre-arrival of container - to allow for it to be clad superfast?


I have little diy/woodworking experience but I am determined to bring this project to fruition - so any input greatly appreciated.


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## Newbie_Neil (22 Aug 2005)

Hi BF

Putting a forty foot shipping container in your back garden would surely require planning permission.

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (22 Aug 2005)

Newbie_Neil":7bctyzlx said:


> Hi BF
> 
> Putting a forty foot shipping container in your back garden would surely require planning permission.
> 
> ...


Point well taken Neil. I have done a good bit of research on the subject and have yet to establish this as 100% watertight BUT...there are a couple of reasons why I think this wouldnt be an issue/requirement.
By their very nature shipping containers are 'temporary structures'. I will be investing more time into investigating this aspect before I take the plunge but I think it would only become an issue if it was unsightly - hence, I would want to clad it immediately.


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## 9fingers (22 Aug 2005)

You could always paint flowers on it?

If you want to clad it without piercing the skin, try gluing on tannelised tiling battens (costs about 30p/metre) with full strength solvent based 'no-nails' or similar and then nailing your chosen cladding to the battens.

Planning permission? No UK planning permission should be needed especially if you can get it more than 5m from the house and more than 20m from the road. These limits come from 'Permitted development rights' which are enshrined in law and unless you are in a conservation area, the planners can't touch you.

Regards

Bob


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## Travis Byrne (22 Aug 2005)

Hello Borderfox
This is going to be a delima considering no holes in the container.
The only thing that I can think of is to pour a footing all around the contrainer and build frame walls and then clad.
If you change your mind about the no holes, then you could screw 2X4 on the flat and attach the cladding. 
If this is going to be truly temp. situation, you are spending alot money for the short term.

Hope someone comes up with some better ideas.  
Good luck
Travis

PS You could always paint it a bright brown and put yellow sun flowers one it. :twisted:


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## Jake (22 Aug 2005)

Temporary use is no more than 28 days per year. You need to get it more than 5m from your house and rely on the outbuildings permitted development. Search on "GPDO" and "permitted development" and you'll find the rules.

Off the top of my head, I'd wrap the whole thing in tyvek and just screw the battens over the top of the tyvek into the container wall. If you want it super-quick, then you could make up the vertical battens with horizontal cladding into manageable panels, missing out four or so cladding strips at intervals so you can the screws through the battens (and then cover over with extra cladding strips). Wack 'em up, a few screws in, next panel, etc, then tidy up with the full set of screws and extra strips afterwards. Shouldn't take long at all with that kind of preparation. Better get those dimensions just right, though.


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## trevtheturner (22 Aug 2005)

Hi borderfox,

Welcome to the Forum.

Important to check out the specific planning regulations with your own Local Authority, as they are able to, and do, set their own regs. So requirements/restrictions can vary from one area to the next. (As an example, all counties in England require planning permission to be obtained for developments of polytunnels - except two, of which Herefordshire is one that doesn't).

Good luck,

Cheers,

Trev.


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## Gill (22 Aug 2005)

Living in those iso containers produces an awful lot of condensation which you'll need to deal with. They're also very cold in the winter, very hot in the summer, and uncomfortably dark at all times. Okay, they may be suitable for the short term but I wouldn't want to work in one of them myself for any length of time. And I presume you'll be occupying it for quite a while, borderfox? After all, there'd be no point in cladding it if you weren't.

You'll also need to consider how you're going to get power and telephone cables (which I presume you'll need in an office) into the container without drilling holes into it.

By the time you've bought all the external cladding it would probably have been cheaper, more sightly and certainly kinder to the neighbours to have constructed a simple wooden shed/office. I can remember living in iso containers for a while when I was in the air force. I'd much rather have had a nice wooden hut.

Gill


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## Anonymous (23 Aug 2005)

@Jake/Trev....ref the planning.
I'm actualy in Ireland (South) and found the following on our planning authority's site ref. building works not requiring permission;



> Building a garage at the back or side of a house so long as it does not extend out in front of the building line of the house and does not exceed 4 metres in height (if it has a tiled/slated pitched roof) or 3 metres (if it has any other roof type). This building will be exempt from planning permission once the floor area is limited to 25 square metres. Garages or sheds to the side of the house must match the finish of the house and may not be lived in or used for commercial purposes.


Caught on a couple of things there alright. Would be 28 sq. m as opposed to 25/ couldnt match in finish as house finish is plaster. Doesnt mean its not impossible though. If I was to risk going ahead without permission, worst case scenario, it can be picked up and moved to another location/sold. Needs further investigation..



> Living in those iso containers produces an awful lot of condensation which you'll need to deal with.


Yeah, this is a known issue alright. From what I gather, a coating of Ceramic Bead Paint is supposed to resolve this to a large extent - together with inner layer of insulation.



> and uncomfortably dark at all times


Was thinking in terms of ripping off the doors and replacing with full glass front/sliding door - would be expensive but look well and solve the light problem. Alternatively, space for windows can be cut out anywhere - heavy cutting but do-able.


> You'll also need to consider how you're going to get power and telephone cables (which I presume you'll need in an office) into the container without drilling holes into it.


Yes there will have to be holes for the likes of this - I'd just prefer to keep them to a minimum - hence my OP to see if there was another approach that could be taken.



> By the time you've bought all the external cladding it would probably have been cheaper, more sightly and certainly kinder to the neighbours to have constructed a simple wooden shed/office.


Hmm...you could well be right - although would be interesting to see what people think it would cost to clad? - 2x sections of 12.19x2.6m; 1x section of 2.44x2.6m ie Total area to be clad = 38 sq. m.
The unsightliness factor should only be a temporary affair. Once clad it should look smart.


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## jasonB (23 Aug 2005)

I'd make the whole thing out of timber, cost of cladding will be the same either way so unless you are getteing the container cheap and don't need a crane simple studwork will be cheaper. 

Your 28sq mts gives a length of 12m do containers come that big. If doing it in timber you could make it 3.0 or 3.6m wide so it will be less like a corridor. At that size you would need 72 vertical studs @400cts and 30 roof members, these could all be 3x2 CLS which costs about £1.60 a length and 30 100x50 swn & tan for the floor so the "structure" could be had for £300 you still have to clad both sides & insulate either way.

BTW here is an office I did the oak frame for earlier this year, if you look closely you can just see the wheel of the caravan/mobile home which keeps it a temporary structure.   

http://photobucket.com/albums/v156/jaso ... aravan.jpg

Jason


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## tim (23 Aug 2005)

borderfox":2h52b7n4 said:


> Once clad it should look smart.



IMO if you clad it without piercing the shell it will look like a clad shipping container! It won't look anything like the image you posted, without the inclusion of windows.

I would reckon on about a tenner a sq m for the cladding alone so c £400 but that doesn't include the studding and if you aren't going to pierce the shell and do go for the glue option suggested then its going to be a tube of glue for every two or three studs ie about 15 tubes per side!. Studding total btw I reckon at £70 - 80.

How much are you planning on paying for the container? There is a danger that what you are buying is in effect a great big metal mould and you are building around it. I'm assuming your reasons for not piercing it is for resale reasons? I think thats unlikely.

My twopennorth is build a shed/ office. It won't cost you much more, you won't have any of the potential neighbour hassles and it won't echo quite so badly!

Cheers

Tim


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## Anonymous (23 Aug 2005)

> make the whole thing out of timber, cost of cladding will be the same either way so unless you are getteing the container cheap and don't need a crane simple studwork will be cheaper.


Your probably right - and I would have costs ref. crane and transportation. Container itself i could pickup fairly cheap. There are some advantages in terms of structural integrity and portability.




> Your 28sq mts gives a length of 12m do containers come that big. If doing it in timber you could make it 3.0 or 3.6m wide so it will be less like a corridor.


Yeah - most common containers are 40' (or approx. 12m). The width is an issue alright - couple more feet would make all the difference.



> IMO if you clad it without piercing the shell it will look like a clad shipping container! It won't look anything like the image you posted, without the inclusion of windows.


The plan would be to either A - cut out spaces for windows as necessary or take the doors off the front and have full length glazed sliding doors there.


> I'm assuming your reasons for not piercing it is for resale reasons?


 No, i was thinking more in terms of possible negative effects it might have on insulation,etc.


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## Les Mahon (23 Aug 2005)

Bordr fox,

On the planning issue it is slightly more complex than that - the documentation states you do not NORMALLY need planning, but the neighbours can still complain!

I built a workshop in my back garden in cork from scratch and the cladding was the single most expensive purchase in the project, the total cost without the concrete base was €3000 and some sweat (OK a lot of sweat  ) I had the concrete base put in by a "profesional" who appeared not to be able to use a measuring tape or level but that is another story!

Pics here: http://www.irishwoodshop.com/woodshop/workshop_build.html

Also be aware that if it is to be used as a comercial premises the rules are different. On a more positive note, the planning authorities don't really care what you do if no one complains, my neighbours have build an enormous pigeon coop, well over the 25sqm limit, and the process of complaining is just begining, though chances are it will never be removed.

Your best bet I would say is to buy / build a wooden shed and speak to the neighbours first.

HTH
Les


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## Jake (23 Aug 2005)

jasonB":2vpj4534 said:


> if you look closely you can just see the wheel of the caravan/mobile home which keeps it a temporary structure.



That is definitely a myth - there's a case about a car-port on wheels that had the wheels to make it supposedly temporary but was never in fact moved. The owner lost the case. Then they changed the GPDO to make it a maximum of 28 days a year, anywhere on the plot (so moving it a few feet doesn't count).


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## wizer (23 Aug 2005)

I say scrap the container and build it. You're a woodworker :wink:


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## Anonymous (23 Aug 2005)

@Les: Looks like a nice little project you ran there. What was the total floor area of the shed?
Cheers for the heads up on the planning. I had thought that if a buildings up for 5 years, the planning folks can't bother you after that. However, I came across someone recently who reckoned this had changed to 10 years. You wouldn't happen to know?



> Your best bet I would say is to buy / build a wooden shed and speak to the neighbours first.





> I say scrap the container and build it. You're a woodworker


Yeah, its looking like the costs are running up on the container idea - and cost was initially percieved to be its big advantage. Remains to be seen whether or not i'm a woodworker though!



> "if you look closely you can just see the wheel of the caravan/mobile home which keeps it a temporary structure."
> 
> That is definitely a myth - there's a case about a car-port on wheels that had the wheels to make it supposedly temporary but was never in fact moved. The owner lost the case. Then they changed the GPDO to make it a maximum of 28 days a year, anywhere on the plot (so moving it a few feet doesn't count).


There was a programme on BBC 3 recently that featured a 'house' called 'the m-house'. It had wheels for the purpose of circumventing UK planning law as explained on their website here - but maybe this info is outdated. Its no solution in any event given the mega pricetag.


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## jasonB (23 Aug 2005)

> "if you look closely you can just see the wheel of the caravan/mobile home which keeps it a temporary structure."



The client already had permission for the caravan, it just looked unsightly against his 16th centuary barn & oast conversion, just stretched the width & height a bit :wink: 

Jason


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## Jake (23 Aug 2005)

Ah, that's different then. A renovated caravan is still a caravan.


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## tombo (23 Aug 2005)

borderfox, 

have you thought about a used portacabin, rather than a container? A friend of mine was looking into one for a woodshop and it seemed a pretty good idea. £600 delivered on site and it already had a consumer unit 13amp plugs florescent lighting and a cat5 network. Not to mention proper windows and doors plus i am certain it was wider than a container. 

Tom


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