# how to use bowl gouge?



## agenthank (26 Feb 2007)

hi,
i would like to know which part of the cutting edge you use to turn bowls?
as i have tried in the past, but it keeps snagging the wood and ripping it out?
i haver watched many video clips, but people do it different ways?
what am i doing wrong?
i have got a bowl gouge and its correctly fitted in the lathe,
so any suggestions?
thanks, agenthank!


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## Newbie_Neil (26 Feb 2007)

Hi Agenthank

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry I don't know the answer to your question, but someone will be along soon.

Cheers
Neil


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## Blister (26 Feb 2007)

agenthank":2mb6c9it said:


> hi,
> i would like to know which part of the cutting edge you use to turn bowls?
> as i have tried in the past, but it keeps snagging the wood and ripping it out?
> i haver watched many video clips, but people do it different ways?
> ...



Dont understand when you say " i have got a bowl gouge and its correctly fitted in the lathe,"

you dont fit them in the lathe , you use them on a toolrest 

:?:


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## agenthank (26 Feb 2007)

sorry i meant the wood is correctly fitted in the lathe


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## CHJ (26 Feb 2007)

agenthank":2b05i91k said:


> hi,
> i would like to know which part of the cutting edge you use to turn bowls?
> as i have tried in the past, but it keeps snagging the wood and ripping it out?
> i haver watched many video clips, but people do it different ways?
> ...



With the bevel rubbing on the surface to be cut,
1. on outside faces, rotate the gouge anti-clockwise about its axis so that the flute is presented at a diagonal between 20 to and 10 past the hr. now lift the back of the handle so that the lower centre third portion of the blade starts cutting.







2. on the inside of a bowl, rotate the gouge clockwise by the same amount .


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## Scrums (26 Feb 2007)

Chas's pictures should help a lot, it would be useful to know what sort of wood you're turning - green or dried? also what brand of Bowl Gouge - and have you sharpened it - or is it 'out of the box'.

I'm sure between us we can have you knocking out bowls in no time  

Chris.


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## agenthank (26 Feb 2007)

i am turning dried walnut,
and im using a marples bowl gouge,and sharpened!
the pictures really help a lot! but is the angle 45 degrees? from face of wood to length of chisel? and do you start in centre then slowly draw back?


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## Wanlock Dod (26 Feb 2007)

Agenthank,

I try to get the angle between the tool and the wood such that the bevel of the tool is lying against the wood which has just been cut. Not sure that this will make much sense, but it is how I seem to achieve the best cuts. It is more difficult on the inside of a bowl because the surface is concave.

Cheers,

Dod


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## Paul.J (26 Feb 2007)

Hello Agenthank.Welcome.
I had the same problem when i first tried to use my bowl gouge,and asked the same question.
I ground the wings back on mine slightly and this seems to have helped,though i still feel as though it's going to catch when i use it :? 
I should practice on a scrap piece till you get used to it  
Paul.J.


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## CHJ (26 Feb 2007)

agenthank":2256505j said:


> i am turning dried walnut,
> and im using a marples bowl gouge,and sharpened!
> the pictures really help a lot! but is the angle 45 degrees? from face of wood to length of chisel? and do you start in centre then slowly draw back?



The angle the tool is presented to the wood is determined by the angle of the bevel. This MUST be rubbing over its full face whilst cutting if you are to avoid dig-ins. 

To start hollowing the inside of a bowl start near, say 25mm, from the centre and form a depression by moving the tool towards the centre.
Work on this until it is about 25mm deep.
Now moving 2-3mm further out take another cut off the wall of the depression, MAKING SURE that the bevel is in full contact.
Continue doing this, adjusting angles depth of cut until you have the hollow shape required.

You may find it advantageous to scribe a series of grooves in the face of the bowl blank with a skew chisel or parting tool to help avoid the gouge skating across the face when trying to start the cut with minimum bevel contact, also rotating the gouge flute so that its two flute edges are at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock to start is easier then immediately rotate it back to 5 to -25 past position.

These rotation angles are not critical in themselves but the required angle to suit your particular gouge and its grind are, so you may need to adjust your approach to get the best cut once you have achieved a cut without digs.


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## RobertMP (26 Feb 2007)

CHJ - based on what I read in a book I've been staying below centre height on the outside of the bowl and above it on the inside. Your pictures seem to show the cut happening at the centre height exactly - inside and out. Was that beginner level advice I read?

I've only got round to making one bowl so far so I'm as keen to learn as the next beginner


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## agenthank (26 Feb 2007)

so i can move the chisel forward and backward across the face of the bowl?
as long as i always keep the bevel touching the walls?
i have seen a video clip where someone has his bowl gouge 90 degrees to the face of the bowl, and he just pushed it in the centre like a drill bit?
how can that work?


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## CHJ (26 Feb 2007)

RobertMP":wrp9383l said:


> CHJ - based on what I read in a book I've been staying below centre height on the outside of the bowl and above it on the inside. Your pictures seem to show the cut happening at the centre height exactly - inside and out. Was that beginner level advice I read?
> 
> I've only got round to making one bowl so far so I'm as keen to learn as the next beginner



I think the "above centre --- below centre" advice is more relevant to the use of scrapers.
The reason being that if the tool attempts to catch it is forced down into free air instead of digging into the wood.

With a Gouge, which must ALWAYS be supported by the bevel the relative position to the centreline is not critical, position is important dependant on the differences of your height and the height of the machine centreline and the positioning of the rest to achieve a *full bevel *contact.

I personally like to work on or above the centreline both outside and in, in the latter case lifting the rear of the tool handle to take the gouge down to the centre spot. (the above picture is cutting a flat surface not a hollow hence on the centreline.)

But I am self taught and what I do may well be contrary to best practice, I just know it works for me.

Note that whilst pivoting the tool for the above I also rotate it about its axis to keep the cutting edge facing the approaching wood, I cannot tell you by how much, it is a matter of feel, if it feels sweet and is removing wood without tearing then I'm happy.


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## PowerTool (26 Feb 2007)

agenthank":292au23p said:


> so i can move the chisel forward and backward across the face of the bowl?
> as long as i always keep the bevel touching the walls?
> i have seen a video clip where someone has his bowl gouge 90 degrees to the face of the bowl, and he just pushed it in the centre like a drill bit?
> how can that work?



I normally start hollowing out bowls by using a push cut into the centre,as you describe above - the important part of safe use of tools is to understand and maintain points of support.You should be able to have three - the end of the handle,kept close to your body (then control it by moving your whole body,not just your hand) ; the tool rest (hence the need to have it correctly positioned,and move it as the wood changes profile) ; the bevel of the gouge itself (which is why the flute should face in the direction of travel - so the cutting edge is supported by the bevel)
I also use the bowl gouge to smooth the bottom of bowls using a pull cut - rather like Chas's second picture,but with the gouge rotated 180 degrees,start in the middle and work to the outside,and the cutting is done by the left-hand edge of the flute (this does depend on the pattern of the grind on the gouge though)

Hope this helps 

Andrew


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## CHJ (26 Feb 2007)

agenthank":luf4k1gx said:


> so i can move the chisel forward and backward across the face of the bowl?
> as long as i always keep the bevel touching the walls?


The gouge should only be in contact in the direction of the cut.



agenthank":luf4k1gx said:


> i have seen a video clip where someone has his bowl gouge 90 degrees to the face of the bowl, and he just pushed it in the centre like a drill bit?
> how can that work?



It is done with a basic gouge that is ground without grinding any wing area back, it behaves as a single fluted drill (the basic bowl gouges sold in the perform and other similar kit are ground this way) in practice a little sideways flexing is often required if drilling a blind hole to encourage the cutting edge to bite if they are ground perfectly symmetrical.

Once a centre hole is established they can be used to bore straight sided holes much the same as if you were using a metal lathe. On some timbers this is considerably easier than using a standard bowl gouge or scraper.


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## CHJ (26 Feb 2007)

*agenthank*;

If you can, obtain a copy of the late Keith Rowley's Book 
Woodturning, A foundation course. ISBN 1 86108 114 6
The pictures and text will explain the subject in detail. IMO the best book available for a beginner.


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## agenthank (28 Feb 2007)

ok thankyou guys!
i will have a go at the weekend, and let you guys know how ive got on.
it all makes a bit more sense now!
thankyou! agenthank!!!


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## agenthank (1 Mar 2007)

hi,
im just wandering if its easier using a square end bowl gouge? for the inside of bowls, because i have only got a fingernail bowl gouge.
what do u guys think?


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## Bodrighy (1 Mar 2007)

CHJ":17df6jly said:


> *agenthank*;
> 
> If you can, obtain a copy of the late Keith Rowley's Book
> Woodturning, A foundation course. ISBN 1 86108 114 6
> The pictures and text will explain the subject in detail. IMO the best book available for a beginner.



I got a copy here at Amazon. New or 2nd hand from a£5 upwards. New edition has extra projects & colour pics.

Pete


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## PowerTool (1 Mar 2007)

agenthank":3almpmv8 said:


> hi,
> im just wandering if its easier using a square end bowl gouge? for the inside of bowls, because i have only got a fingernail bowl gouge.
> what do u guys think?



All personal opinion,but the fingernail is probably easier to use - with the squarer end,you have to be careful of catching the tips of the flute on the workpiece.

Andrew


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## agenthank (5 Mar 2007)

hi all,
ok i had a go at bowl turning today,
and it went very well! until i got to the inner sideof the bowl,
i started of like you said, from near centre to middle, until i got a depresion, then gradually worked towards the outside edge, i got about 1 and a half inches depp in the centre and about a quarter inch towards the outside edge, but i was having difficulty in going deeper towards the outer edge? my gouge was at 90 degrees as i was near the outer edge and that wasnt enough to take off any wood?
i was scared to carry on as it might snag?
any suggestions?
thanks, agenthank!


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## CHJ (5 Mar 2007)

agenthank":l44lcn5v said:


> hi all,
> ok i had a go at bowl turning today,
> and it went very well! until i got to the inner sideof the bowl,
> i started of like you said, from near centre to middle, until i got a depresion, then gradually worked towards the outside edge, i got about 1 and a half inches depp in the centre and about a quarter inch towards the outside edge, but i was having difficulty in going deeper towards the outer edge? my gouge was at 90 degrees as i was near the outer edge and that wasnt enough to take off any wood?
> ...



If in doubt use a round nose scraper until such time as you gain experience/confidence.

A stiff 13mm (1/2") one is ideal, make sure you have it cutting above centre and keep a tool rest support as close as possible to the work surface.

The required approach with the bowl gouge and the grind angle of the bevel (I find I need two gouges with differing bevel angles) are things that will come with practice. In the absence of more experienced one to one guidance, reverting to the age old scraper is the safest bet I feel.

If you can obtain some green wood to practice on you may find it easier to experiment with.

IMO you did the correct thing in stopping when not confident, far better to be able to come back another day than have an accident pressing on to a finish.


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