# Perfect way to clean a water stone.



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

As it turns out a latex rubber block, the kind you use to clean sanding belts, is also perfect to clean a water stone with. It removes the metal shavings without removing material from the stone. I tried it on the Shapton Glass 3000 and it's completely clean again.


----------



## David C (15 Apr 2017)

Clean but is it flat?

best wishes,
David


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

David Charlesworth, right? Let me guess, you're one of those people who flattens a stone before each use? It must suck if you've been in woodworking for decades but you still don't know how to keep a stone flat with a chisel or plane blade. Maybe I should make a video about it and sell it to all the amateur woodworkers out there. Easy money.


----------



## memzey (15 Apr 2017)

Wow. Right or wrong about the actual topic at hand, that's a pretty rude post. Whether you agree with David's way of doing things or not, a bit of courtesy wouldn't go amiss I'd say.


----------



## Ttrees (15 Apr 2017)

I Don't think you'd sell too many videos, with an attitude like that 
Tom


----------



## yetloh (15 Apr 2017)

I agree with Memzey. It depends what you mean by flat. A _perfectly _ flat back is required for flattening the back of a chisel or plane blade or for "backing off" after honing. To do this with a chisel or plane blade seems to me impossible. Dc himself advocates methtods of sharpening to minimise dishing but I'm sure he wouldn't claim that it obviated the need for flattening fairly regularly. If you can achieve this miracle please do enlighten us.

Jim


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

I flatten my King 1200 once every 5-6 weeks. My Sigma Select II 6000 gets flattened maybe once every 4 months. And when I say they're out of flat I mean they're out of flat by 1mm over the entire length. You just have to know how to work the stone. Long strokes over the entire length of the stone with the bevel and with the back you work on the two ends. It really isn't that hard.

And here's what most internet woodworkers just don't get about stones. You all think a stone has to be dead flat over the entire working length. Let's take a stone that's 21cm long and it's out of flat by 1mm over the entire length (which is the maximum deviation for me). That means it's out of flat by 0.004mm over 1cm lengthwise. Let's say this same stone is out of flat by 0.5mm over the entire width (which again is the maximum deviation for me) that means it's out of flat by just 0.007mm over 1cm widthwise. Anyone who thinks such a small deviation from dead flat effects how a chisel performs simply has no hand tool skills.


----------



## Glynne (15 Apr 2017)

I personally would have taken the hint. 3 replies suggesting you may have gone over the top should at least have tempered a further reposte.
So assuming you are the expert on flattening water stones, which are essentially the means of sharpening woodworking tools to produce woodwork - any examples of your woodwork so we can critique them against David C?


----------



## lurker (15 Apr 2017)

Blimey you make dear old Jacob sound humble.
Maybe you need to go back under your bridge and stay there.


----------



## memzey (15 Apr 2017)

I might agree with you on stone flatness (although I freehand on oil stones and just maintain flatness by using all of the stone so less relevant to me) but I certainly don't think your second post on this thread was warranted. Perhaps you didn't mean it to come across that way but it read extremely nasty. Not what most posters on this site log in for I think.


----------



## lurker (15 Apr 2017)

You could come back tomorrow and apologise when you have sobered up.


----------



## Cheshirechappie (15 Apr 2017)

PalmRoyale":2da3f9zj said:


> And here's what most internet woodworkers just don't get about stones. You all think a stone has to be dead flat over the entire working length. Let's take a stone that's 21cm long and it's out of flat by 1mm over the entire length (which is the maximum deviation for me). That means it's out of flat by 0.004mm over 1cm lengthwise. Let's say this same stone is out of flat by 0.5mm over the entire width (which again is the maximum deviation for me) that means it's out of flat by just 0.007mm over 1cm widthwise. Anyone who thinks such a small deviation from dead flat effects how a chisel performs simply has no hand tool skills.



You might care to check your maths. Assuming the wear is an even circular curve (which it won't be), wear of 1mm depth over a 200mm length equates to 1/20th mm over 1/20th of 200mm, or 0.05mm over a 10mm (1cm) length.

Leaving that aside, any curved wear to a stone will reflect in the abrasion of a chisel or plane-iron flat side when backing off. Back off a flat chisel on a curved stone, and you'll quickly generate a curved back to the chisel - as many a vintage chisel purchaser has noted.

If your way of doing things works for you, that's great. Others prefer different ways, and as in the case of David C, have given their reasons for using their methods on many occasions.


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

Glynne":1633cv1i said:


> any examples of your woodwork so we can critique them against David C?


Okay, sure. The first picture is where I work and I've worked on every boat you see in the picture.













Davind Charlesworth is a furniture maker, not a shipwright, and he doesn't have the skill to do what I do.


----------



## lurker (15 Apr 2017)

Well at least one person in the world is full of admiration where you are concerned. :roll:


----------



## Andy Kev. (15 Apr 2017)

Rudeness is in my opinion something which an adult should only use when it is justified and that is actually seldom in life. Gratuitous rudeness is childish. Rudeness combined with arrogance starts to look just stupid.

Nice boats by the way.


----------



## Lons (15 Apr 2017)

Andy Kev.":27oqczov said:


> Rudeness is in my opinion something which an adult should only use when it is justified and that is actually seldom in life. Gratuitous rudeness is childish. Rudeness combined with arrogance starts to look just stupid.
> 
> Nice boats by the way.



I think you've hit the nail on the head. It's a child pretending to be an adult. :roll: 
Some of the rudest most condescending posts I've seen in a while. A relatively new member by the number of posts, maybe you should disappear back into your little boat where you can bask in self appreciation. (hammer) 

Bob


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

The thing is I just can't stand all the self proclaimed wood working experts on youtube while the only thing they're capable of is making some simple furniture. I can do what David Charlesworth, Rob Cosman, Chris Schwartz and others do with my eyes closed but every English speaking amateur wood workers thinks those guys are wood working gods. Well, they're not. They're amateurs. I'm a real Frisian shipwright and they will never come close to what I and the other guys I work with are capable of.


----------



## iNewbie (15 Apr 2017)

What, being a cOck?


----------



## Bm101 (15 Apr 2017)

I have two children under seven who have more concept of basic human interaction than you seem to have. Amateur woodworker (scum of the earth) but I wouldn't trade the lack of skill/experience for your 'ultra skills' if it involved the loss of personality and charm for all the tea in China. Btw. Tbh I feel you have other issues so good luck, I'm sure you really are special.


----------



## Lons (15 Apr 2017)

Bm101":u8ifoa08 said:


> I have two children under seven who have more concept of basic human interaction than you seem to have. Amateur woodworker (scum of the earth) but I wouldn't trade the lack of skill/experience for your 'ultra skills' if it involved the loss of personality and charm for all the tea in China. Btw. Tbh I feel you have other issues so good luck, I'm sure you really are special.



+1

My 4 year old granddaughter has more interpersonal skills.

PS

I've just read the his other posts :roll: :wink:


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

PalmRoyale":n8kyj51q said:


> The thing is I just can't stand all the self proclaimed wood working experts on youtube while the only thing they're capable of is making some simple furniture. I can do what David Charlesworth, Rob Cosman, Chris Schwartz and others do with my eyes closed but every English speaking amateur wood workers thinks those guys are wood working gods. Well, they're not. They're amateurs. I'm a real Frisian shipwright and they will never come close to what I and the other guys I work with are capable of.


Its been 35 years in the making, but mummy told me I'd meet people like you. What is your major malfunction private ?

Coley 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

" looks to me like the best part of you ran down the crack of ya mammas ass, and ended up as a brown stain on the mattress" - awesome film [WINKING FACE]

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## memzey (15 Apr 2017)

Awesome work. Terrible attitude. If your manners were 5% as developed as your shipwright skills you'd be an excellent poster on this site. Unfortunately that is clearly not the case. Perhaps you're just having a bad day, here's hoping that tomorrow you will reflect on your conduct and make it right.


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

You're probably use to working in a different environment then most of us. When we fit joints, we try and get them to fit bang on. 9 times out of 10 it'll be going into a centrally heated home. I'd imagine you work within a 3-5mm tolerance, with the knowledge and experience of knowing the oceans waves will make everything fit beautifully once it's expanded and swollen 10 % :lol: 
Coley 
Happy Easter


----------



## bugbear (15 Apr 2017)

PalmRoyale may have many skills, but I suspect tonight's posts involve Genever.

BugBear


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

I'm just bored and having a bit of fun. However, I do stand by about what I said about the youtube wood working gurus. What they do really is very simple and not deserving of the praise it gets. If you want to see two real wood working gurus you should visit me at work so you can watch the two older guys there do their thing. I like to think I have some skills after doing this work for 20 years but I still learn something new from them almost every week.


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

PalmRoyale":14ww5yh8 said:


> I'm just bored and having a bit of fun.


If you stop being an buttocks, you might start to appreciate what the forum has to offer. Slagging off everyone will probably just earn you and me a ban. You're clearly talented, as are all the furniture makers you've badmouthed, so what's your goal? Share a bit of experience, and perhaps learn a smidgen, or go down in flames whilst having your 20 seconds of glory. I was joking with my comment of only having to fit things within 3-5mm. I suspect it probably within a mm ?
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

I like your previous post before you edited it.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## worn thumbs (15 Apr 2017)

I have a friend who builds boats in the same area as the opinionated one and he is a pleasant fellow.I also have a water stone that works well.I don't live or work in Friesland and I do recognise that there is more to woodworking than making rectilinear furniture,even though I speak English.I do admit to being deficient when it comes to being offensive in a foreign language though.


----------



## ED65 (15 Apr 2017)

Kapsoneslijer moet opzoute!


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

Where did you get those mhg chisels from ? They look quite good! 


Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## PalmRoyale (15 Apr 2017)

ColeyS1":18mow85h said:


> You're clearly talented, as are all the furniture makers you've badmouthed,


But are they really talented? I mean, any half decent shipwright can do what they do but it doesn't work the other way around. A furniture maker is good in the narrow scope of wood working that he/she does but a decent shipwright is a far more all-round wood worker. Stick a decent shipwright in an empty steel hull and give him/her a simple sketch to work from and 8-10 weeks later you have a complete interior. Do the same thing with an experienced furniture maker and they're in over their head. And this is something I know from experience. I've worked with furniture makers who wanted to switch to boat building but they simple couldn't hack it. They all lacked the insight, the creativity, problem solving and improvising skills. It's like one of the old timers at work once said: "You can teach anyone to be a furniture maker but you're born as a shipwright."



ColeyS1":18mow85h said:


> Where did you get those mhg chisels from ? They look quite good!


From fine-tools.com in Germany. They're excellent chisels.
https://www.fine-tools.com/mhg.html


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (15 Apr 2017)

Well, just opened the door after a couple of Easter visiting family days to this delightful post! The odious, jumped up individual will not be contributing any more bile to this forum. One skill he might ask those old timers about next time he wishes to update his monster skill list is....common courtesy!


----------



## TFrench (15 Apr 2017)

I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and say I think thats a bit strong? I think these forums are very interesting to read, even if it is a bit heated at times re:sharpening! Lets be honest, if you can turn out work like he posted, you have talent and skill, and therefore something interesting to add. I'd much rather read a discussion than everyone just repeating the same thing over and over?


----------



## ColeyS1 (15 Apr 2017)

Crikey, those chisels are a good price aswell !
If what you say is true about shipwrights, you're probably not helping with how they're now gonna be perceived. You've got the chance to set things straight and to show us what you can do. People on here will bend over backwards to help others. If you know everything already and aren't willing to share your knowledge with the hope of picking up a few hints, then what's the point ?- Just do a crossword to pass your time. You've joined a forum that has a close connection to your profession (working with wood) Your previous posts demonstrate you want advice on tools etc. How about show others a little respect when they try to help. 
Hand on heart, not joking about, I think it's disgusting the way you've spoken about others. There's just no need for it, at all. You've got people's attention, now rise up and demonstrate !
Coley


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (16 Apr 2017)

TFrench":18wa5xx6 said:


> I'm going to stick my head above the parapet here and say I think thats a bit strong? I think these forums are very interesting to read, even if it is a bit heated at times re:sharpening! Lets be honest, if you can turn out work like he posted, you have talent and skill, and therefore something interesting to add. I'd much rather read a discussion than everyone just repeating the same thing over and over?



I don't give a flying fig what skills people have if they're signally unable to observe the most basic standards for human behaviour, courtesy and respect. If you think that thread was a discussion then you and I have different criteria for judging what constitutes a reasonable interaction between people using written forms of communication!


----------



## Lons (16 Apr 2017)

Happy Easter Bob, back with a shock and I for one would back your actions 100%. There's a huge difference between heated arguments regarding specific tools or practices but generally slagging off all and sundry is not acceptable and I wasn't the only one who found him offensive.


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

Is there an easy way to translate this page ? http://m.telegraaf.nl/vrij/varen/articl ... hout-houdt
Edit- think this is a link to the actual website that sells the boats 
http://www.jachtwerfdejong.nl/
I'll have a more thorough read when I'm properly awake.
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## yetloh (16 Apr 2017)

Andy Kev.":13h3kkjw said:


> Rudeness is in my opinion something which an adult should only use when it is justified and that is actually seldom in life. Gratuitous rudeness is childish. Rudeness combined with arrogance starts to look just stupid.
> 
> Nice boats by the way.



Amen.

Jim


----------



## NazNomad (16 Apr 2017)

I was going to suggest a strop, but I see people are already having one. :-D


----------



## Cheshirechappie (16 Apr 2017)

All the really skilled people I've met in life had no need to boast - their skill was obvious. I've also met very few indeed who felt the need to denigrate the skills and abilities of others. When you develop skill in something, it sort of dawns on you that there are an awful lot of other skills in the world of which you know very little.

My ex-next door neighbour packed in his job in a woodyard to set himself up fitting out steel narrow-boat hulls, starting from an empty shell. He now has more work than he can handle, just by word of mouth. He's completely self taught. Very nice guy, too.

For anybody who might be under the illusion that David Charlesworth's furniture is 'simple rectilinear', I'd invite them to do some research - then try to replicate some of the pieces David has made over the years, using the woods he tends to use, and to the standard of fit and finish he achieves; you will find they're not that simple. Chris Schwarz would probably not claim to be a skilled woodworker (though he's certainly not completely incompetent); his real skill lies in finding good information and presenting it to others - running a publishing house is a different sort of skill, but it's one that has been of great benefit to many woodworkers, amateur and professional.

As for 'just having a bit of fun', since when has going around gratuitously insulting people been regarded as acceptable social practice?

Bob - you did the right thing. Discussing ideas - even unfashionable or unpopular ones - is fine, but that can be done without recourse to rudeness.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (16 Apr 2017)

I've just woken up to a moment of clarity. This banning is about values and standards. The individual concerned, likely enough did have amazing skills in his armoury and as such, they're a bit tantalizing, a bit different and on some level, attractive to us wood workers. I get the comment about that, I felt it too. But there's another more important layer to this, a priority which is "a priori" to the issue of skills and that's the issue already raised, respect and manners/courtesy. I'm afraid that to me, those are what politicians would call a "red line" and therefore the skills issue doesn't even get the light of day if the "person" fails the test of having enough self respect to meter that out to others. I think it's important that forum members understand that values are important and that good values are even more so.

Edit: Cheshire - your post crossed in the ether with mine, and I entirely agree with your sentiments about genuinely skilled folk realising they will never know it all. What we witnessed with said individual was nothing more complicated than a personality flaw.


----------



## memzey (16 Apr 2017)

I was the first one to call him out on his rudeness and lack of courtesy so I of course agree with the criticism levelled against Palmroyal above. I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake. Having said that I know the moderators task is a difficult and thankless one so there is no easy answer to this type of quandary.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (16 Apr 2017)

Sometimes the spalting runs so deep, you need to grub out the tree!


----------



## Andy Kev. (16 Apr 2017)

I had a bit more of a think about this last night. PalmeRoyale obviously has got a bit of a chip on his shoulder about cabinet makers and even more so about those who produce books and DVDs for the likes of me who would like to get halfway towards being able to call themselves a cabinet maker. He seems to have identified a rivalry where none exists.

It's not as if the likes of David Charlesworth are producing material which nobody needs. Indeed, the biggest single leap in ability I made was after watching his Chisel Techniques DVD. It was literally an overnight transformation: I'd gone from being a guesser to being knowledgeable. For somebody who has no access to personal instruction such DVDs are worth every penny. And of course they present no threat whatsoever to the world of boat building.

It's a bit of a shame because the boats pictured are gorgeous and I'm sure that many of us would have found details about their construction to be fascinating. However, as Bob quite reasonably points out, the bloke ruled himself by his behaviour out of court before he even got to what the forum is about.


----------



## NazNomad (16 Apr 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":35kdlexl said:


> Sometimes the spalting runs so deep, you need to grub out the tree!



Keep it, flood it with CA, it'll be fine.


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

memzey":1tbk6p09 said:


> I was the first one to call him out on his rudeness and lack of courtesy so I of course agree with the criticism levelled against Palmroyal above. I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake. Having said that I know the moderators task is a difficult and thankless one so there is no easy answer to this type of quandary.


In my latter posts, I was trying to steer him towards being a little more gracious. He started to come around, but just couldn't let go his desire to badmouth people. It's a shame cause I'm sure he would have began to enjoy it here once he stopped being a buttock.
I learnt quite a bit from just viewing the companies facebook page (I'm not a fb member but you can still view it) it's quite fascinating and has loads of pictures, building the boats from just templates to forming the whole shell in lots of stages. 
Perhaps we could have learnt alot, perhaps he could have learnt a little.
Apologies for my movie quote, it just really rattles my cage when people set out to offend members. Especially members who share their time and knowledge helping other members members members- gotta stop saying members :lol: 
Coley


----------



## Droogs (16 Apr 2017)

I support your view entirely Bob, after all from what I've read here in this post, the "man" has skills but severly lacks in human decency. Reminds me of a comment an uncle of mine once made "I met Reinhard (Heydrich) once, most cultured man I ever met, biggest C**T too"


edit typo


----------



## Lons (16 Apr 2017)

memzey":eibbr0io said:


> I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake.



I read all of his previous posts, not that many and there is a common thread of arrogance albeit not as rude as this thread so a waste of time IMO. His comment about being bored and having fun is I think as far as he would have gone. It takes a genuine person to say sorry and it was never going to happen. Having read my responses I was rude as well and regret that as it doesn't happen too often. I don't know him, maybe he hadn't taken his medication or all the other products available in Amsterdam. 

I great shame as I'm sure many on here would have been interested in reading about his methods and achievements but not in the way he portrays.

I had the good fortune to be friends with 2 very skilled and humble people. Norman Tulip a widely respected walking stick maker and David Major who was a very skilled wood carver, both sadly deceased but who rather than blow their own trumpet would go out of their way to help anyone who asked.

Bob


----------



## MikeK (16 Apr 2017)

I'm a newbie here, and an even bigger newbie when it comes to transforming wood into something useful and beautiful. As such, I am a sponge for information and am very pleased with the content and delivery of information at UKWorkshop. 

I used to own a photography-related discussion board, where the core values were courtesy and respect. It was okay to disagree, but not berate. Over the years, it was necessary to remove some very talented members because their ego was or became a substantial barrier to the flow of information. Unfortunately for PalmRoyale, his (or her) attitude got in the way of being a potential source of useful information. Too bad.

Getting back to the topic, I ordered two Ohishi waterstones and a diamond coated lapping plate specifically for my new planes. I also cheated (gasp) and ordered the honing guide so my novice hands can achieve the correct angle when putting an edge on the irons.


----------



## Beau (16 Apr 2017)

Yes the guy over stepped the mark but I can see this from both sides. 

He shared a way to clean up a waterstone and immediately got pounced on over flattening of stones. IMO there is a lot of OTT sharpening threads on here and he was probably trying to nip that it in the bud from the start. Yes he was arrogant but doesn't mean there was not a lot of truth in some of his posts. Most of the skilled pros I know would never bother with a forum like this or look at the some of the youtube "masters". Loads of highly skilled guys and gals out there that we will never hear of as they don't need to self publicise to get work.


----------



## Paddy Roxburgh (16 Apr 2017)

Cheshirechappie":2geh9v1b said:


> All the really skilled people I've met in life had no need to boast - their skill was obvious. I've also met very few indeed who felt the need to denigrate the skills and abilities of others. When you develop skill in something, it sort of dawns on you that there are an awful lot of other skills in the world of which you know very little.
> .



CC is absolutely correct. What strikes me is how insecure the OP must feel. I constantly marvel at the range of skills that I see on this forum. I know about boat building and repairs, both in steel and wood (although my knowledge of glass fibre is rather limited) and imagine that most who did not work in this field would struggle with these tasks, why on earth would this make me want to denigrate the skills of those in other trades? Woodworking, indeed all making skills are to some degree transferable, but knowing how to build/fit a boat does not mean you can build a pipe organ or make a violin, at least not without being humble enough to realise that there is sooo much you need to learn.

One of my oldest friends is a builder. We have a bit of banter where he boasts that his chisels are so blunt he can let his toddler play with them, laughing his head off at me fussing with my tools. He'll never build a boat like the ones the OP posted and he'll never make furniture like David Charlesworth, however if you want some stud walls built he'll have them done perfectly and be down the pub before either the OP,DC or I have got half way though. If i want to know about how to build a stud wall efficiently and correctly he is the one I would look too. If you are so arragont you think others have nothing to teach you, you will learn very little.
Paddy


----------



## Phil Pascoe (16 Apr 2017)

Droogs":2iarir9s said:


> I support your view entirely Bob, after all from what I've read here in this post, the "man" has skills but severly lacks in human decency. Reminds me of a comment an uncle of mine once made "I met Reinhard (Heydrich) once, most cultured man I ever met, biggest C**T too"




Wenn ich Kultur höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!?


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

I was joking about his joints needing to fit- spotted this on his Facebook and it made me giggle.





Look at all the filler/resin he had to use, cause the joints didn't fit :lol: 
Beau, you raise a good point about being pounced on [WINKING FACE]

Coley


----------



## iNewbie (16 Apr 2017)

memzey":6t7sk8dl said:


> His comment about being bored and having fun is I think as far as he would have gone. It takes a genuine person to say sorry and it was never going to happen. Having read my responses I was rude as well and regret that as it doesn't happen too often. *I don't know him, maybe he hadn't taken his medication or all the other products available in Amsterdam.*


[/quote]

Yes, that Lithium chain cycling grease can be a mare if not applied properly. 

Nice boats for sure.


----------



## swb58 (16 Apr 2017)

There must surely be a trip organised to visit this great man at work.


----------



## MrTeroo (16 Apr 2017)

Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.

I agree his views were forthright, but rude? I don't see rudeness there. Read them in the voice of Kenneth Williams, definitely not rude.

Someone called him a c0ck. That's rude, why isn't that person banned?

This was a knee jerk reaction that need's to be reversed IMO


----------



## Lons (16 Apr 2017)

> Clean but is it flat?
> 
> best wishes,
> David



Pounced on, really? A simple question the way I see it and certainly respectful!



> David Charlesworth, right? Let me guess, you're one of those people who flattens a stone before each use? It must suck if you've been in woodworking for decades but you still don't know how to keep a stone flat with a chisel or plane blade. Maybe I should make a video about it and sell it to all the amateur woodworkers out there. Easy money.



The pouncing, quite rightly imo came after his response above which was definitely out of order.


----------



## D_W (16 Apr 2017)

MrTeroo":2mlfzvq3 said:


> Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.
> 
> I agree his views were forthright, but rude? I don't see rudeness there. Read them in the voice of Kenneth Williams, definitely not rude.
> 
> ...


 
I think your lens works differently than everyone else's. It's not like he wrote one post that was borderline.


----------



## MrTeroo (16 Apr 2017)

D_W":29030xmb said:


> MrTeroo":29030xmb said:
> 
> 
> > Totally over the top to ban him on the basis ofwhat he wrote in this thread.
> ...




Can I see the poll results on that please?

Thanks


----------



## memzey (16 Apr 2017)

iNewbie":zdkhoujj said:


> memzey":zdkhoujj said:
> 
> 
> > His comment about being bored and having fun is I think as far as he would have gone. It takes a genuine person to say sorry and it was never going to happen. Having read my responses I was rude as well and regret that as it doesn't happen too often. *I don't know him, maybe he hadn't taken his medication or all the other products available in Amsterdam.*
> ...



Don't know how you did it but you managed to quote me saying something I didn't say! Most strange. 

Anyway it's always a shame when someone with obvious skills is banned but having said that I do understand the position of the moderators.


----------



## MrTeroo (16 Apr 2017)

Serious request, could someone quote for me what they consider to be a rude/offensive section of what he posted?

Many thanks


----------



## iNewbie (16 Apr 2017)

memzey":253zjqbo said:


> iNewbie":253zjqbo said:
> 
> 
> > memzey":253zjqbo said:
> ...



My sincere apologies Memzey - it was a double quote and Lons had mentioned Amsterdam and being the cOck I am, I misquoted it.


----------



## Lons (16 Apr 2017)

iNewbie":a1kash50 said:


> My sincere apologies Memzey - it was a double quote and Lons had mentioned Amsterdam and being the cOck I am, I misquoted it.



Go on blame me, I can take it. :lol: :lol:


----------



## iNewbie (16 Apr 2017)

I'm trying my hardest with a rubber latex block to erase it all!


----------



## ED65 (16 Apr 2017)

Well I want to go on record as saying good call Bob. His "bunch of amateurs" crack a few days ago had me counting the days and this thread would have been the final straw, no question, if the choice had been up to me. Wielding the ban hammer isn't always easy or pleasant but sometimes the necessity is clear.



memzey":3o0vgx4t said:


> I'm less comfortable with the fact that he wasn't allowed to redeem himself though and would have preferred him to have been given the chance to apologise and make good his mistake.


I wouldn't have wanted you to be holding your breath waiting for that.

I've been online a long long time (every time something like this happens I think again: far too long) both in front of and behind the curtain and IME anyone this obviously arrogant, not even attempting to hide it but instead seeming to revel in it, is an immediate red flag so I called this early. Without a single exception in well over 20 years someone like this will never play well with others and cannot, or in some cases will not, modify their behaviour if given a chance to do so.


----------



## Glynne (16 Apr 2017)

With all the flak flying around, can we just share a thought for David C who was in the firing line from the start.
Not only did he not react (better than me) but he is probably walking around thinking, all I said was "clean, but is it flat?"


----------



## shed9 (16 Apr 2017)

Not sure he should have been banned as stopping people from talking rarely achieves the objective of it. 

That said, it's easy for me to say that when I don't have the wider responsibility of a mod.


----------



## worn thumbs (16 Apr 2017)

ColeyS1":gox5679g said:


> I was joking about his joints needing to fit- spotted this on his Facebook and it made me giggle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Actually,the seam filling mastic is there to allow movement of the deck planks with changes in moisture content.A tight joint on one day may well not be tight for long.In bygone times it was done with cotton or oakum caulking and hot pitch poured on top.


----------



## memzey (16 Apr 2017)

His work looks excellent, no doubt about that.


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

I wonder how easy it is to work once dry. The finished pictures of it look really smooth. Do you think it's likely to be cartridge type stuff,or maybe a resin with activator type product ? It must be quite good stuff.
Coley


----------



## NazNomad (16 Apr 2017)

iNewbie":3vau6355 said:


> I'm trying my hardest with a rubber latex block...



Reminds me of that Ann Summers party I went to .... Oops, BLOCK, I thought you said... never mind.


----------



## bugbear (16 Apr 2017)

MrTeroo":1u6y5i0u said:


> Serious request, could someone quote for me what they consider to be a rude/offensive section of what he posted?
> 
> Many thanks



There's none so blind...

BugBear (100% behind our mods, tough job)


----------



## MrTeroo (16 Apr 2017)

bugbear":14dxp9xa said:


> MrTeroo":14dxp9xa said:
> 
> 
> > Serious request, could someone quote for me what they consider to be a rude/offensive section of what he posted?
> ...



So rather than answering my post in a constructive way, you type a snippet of snidey nastiness, not for the first time.

Your not so far removed from last night's poster yourself Bugbear...


----------



## Beau (16 Apr 2017)

ColeyS1":1rt6irdp said:


> I wonder how easy it is to work once dry. The finished pictures of it look really smooth. Do you think it's likely to be cartridge type stuff,or maybe a resin with activator type product ? It must be quite good stuff.
> Coley



Presume we you are talking about the black lines? Helped with one boat build and two ways this was done. One was black Sikaflex from a gun. Other parts of the teak deck had epoxy mixed with black graphite powder for the filer.


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

Beuker":49ua8osm said:


> And one piece of advise, this is the internet. Treat it as a bunch of letters on your screen and life will be much easier :wink:


But real life people contribute to it.
Thanks for the info.
Coley


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

How often would a deck like in the pictures need recoating? Is it a marine varnish or something more industrial ? 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Phil Pascoe (16 Apr 2017)

The comment on the internet rather reminds me of a friend many years ago who was a CB radio fanatic. He came in the pub one night and said he'd sold all his rig. I asked why and said he did it after realising that he'd spent forty minutes talking to someone on air that he would have avoided had they met in the pub.


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

The sikaflex stuff looks ideal for a big log slice I've got that has drying out shakes I'd like to fill. Would there be a maximum joint size it'll fill ? I'm thinking I could have 12mm splits in places. If for some reason the log decides to swell, would the sikaflex just bulge a bit, but still stay stuck ? This stuff has to be a better option than me using rigid non flexing epoxy resin ?
Cheers
Coley


----------



## shed9 (16 Apr 2017)

A lot of the previous comments assume of course that the keyboard warrior himself, PalmRoyale is indeed the person behind the work in the pictures, most of which is readily available on the web. 

As Napoleon once said, don't believe everything you read on the Internet.


----------



## Paddy Roxburgh (16 Apr 2017)

Beuker":1va67osx said:


> .
> And one piece of advise, this is the internet. Treat it as a bunch of letters on your screen and life will be much easier :wink:


I heard people can even change their identity on the internet!!!


----------



## ColeyS1 (16 Apr 2017)

Beuker":2vxk699x said:


> ColeyS1":2vxk699x said:
> 
> 
> > The sikaflex stuff looks ideal for a big log slice I've got that has drying out shakes I'd like to fill. Would there be a maximum joint size it'll fill ? I'm thinking I could have 12mm splits in places. If for some reason the log decides to swell, would the sikaflex just bulge a bit, but still stay stuck ? This stuff has to be a better option than me using rigid non flexing epoxy resin ?
> ...


Thanks for the offer, I'm sure it'll be fine. I bought some black stixall thinking I could sand that but it didn't go at all to plan :lol: 
Appreciate the info.
Cheers
Coley


----------



## Beau (17 Apr 2017)

ColeyS1":3l1lyv9b said:


> The sikaflex stuff looks ideal for a big log slice I've got that has drying out shakes I'd like to fill. Would there be a maximum joint size it'll fill ? I'm thinking I could have 12mm splits in places. If for some reason the log decides to swell, would the sikaflex just bulge a bit, but still stay stuck ? This stuff has to be a better option than me using rigid non flexing epoxy resin ?
> Cheers
> Coley



I was mulling over why the two different ways were used on the boat as it was many years ago. I think Epoxy was used on the thinner teak that was laid on a ply substrate. In this situation it was considered stable. The boat is now 14 years old and neither system has any problems in a marine environment. 

All the black lines on the deck are epoxy and graphite


----------



## AJB Temple (17 Apr 2017)

Only just saw this thread. Boat work is very interesting.

Might be worth remembering re banning people. The poster was Dutch. In my experience, having lived in the Netherlands, and been married to a Dutch girl, the Dutch have a very different culture to the British. They have an extremely direct way of speaking that English people can often perceive as rude, perhaps the more so for Dutch working men. They rarely mean to be rude though. The sense of humour is very boisterous too. And he was working presumably in his second or possibly third language (second is frequently German). It is easy to judge but we do need to make allowances perhaps for foreign visitors to this site.


----------



## bugbear (17 Apr 2017)

MrTeroo":2grbsxsk said:


> bugbear":2grbsxsk said:
> 
> 
> > MrTeroo":2grbsxsk said:
> ...



So you can percieve the snidey nastiness in my post, but not the rudeness in the post we're discussing? Interesting filter you're running there.

BugBear


----------



## MrTeroo (17 Apr 2017)

bugbear":3o866s63 said:


> So you can percieve the snidey nastiness in my post, but not the rudeness in the post we're discussing? Interesting filter you're running there.
> 
> BugBear



Yes I do perceive the snidy nastiness that you have directed at me.

I wouldn't advocate you being banned for it though. 

I can't see any level of rudeness that warrants a banning in the other person's posts, either.

I ask again, please quote the elements of those posts that you deem rude enough to have him banned.


----------



## shed9 (17 Apr 2017)

AJB Temple":usrbnw1n said:


> Only just saw this thread. Boat work is very interesting.
> 
> Might be worth remembering re banning people. The poster was Dutch. In my experience, having lived in the Netherlands, and been married to a Dutch girl, the Dutch have a very different culture to the British. They have an extremely direct way of speaking that English people can often perceive as rude, perhaps the more so for Dutch working men. They rarely mean to be rude though. The sense of humour is very boisterous too. And he was working presumably in his second or possibly third language (second is frequently German). It is easy to judge but we do need to make allowances perhaps for foreign visitors to this site.



I would second this having experience with the Dutch and at one point being able to converse in Dutch, albeit to a limited degree and some time ago. My point I suppose is that even in Dutch itself, it is a very direct language and it doesn't do itself any favours by the time it gets transposed into other languages.

Banning people will not just stop PalmRoyale but you can bet your life other European forums are now reading this thread which is not good in itself. As mentioned before, restricting speech rarely achieves the intended objective.


----------



## Paddy Roxburgh (17 Apr 2017)

Guys, guys, guys. What does it matter? "Beuker" is free to post here. I think you'll find he has a very similar knowledge base to PalmRoyale, and perhaps he will be a little more polite than his "friend". Now both of you go to your sheds immediately and make something nice.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (17 Apr 2017)

This thread really needs the Sage of Middleton by Wirksworth - he'd have sorted out the rudeness.


----------



## MrTeroo (17 Apr 2017)

phil.p":2j3fun90 said:


> This thread really needs the Sage of Middleton by Wirksworth - he'd have sorted out the rudeness.



That's right

Compared to him PalmRoyale is Tennyson


----------



## ColeyS1 (17 Apr 2017)

Paddy Roxburgh":2v0y175l said:


> Guys, guys, guys. What does it matter? "Beuker" is free to post here. I think you'll find he has a very similar knowledge base to PalmRoyale, and perhaps he will be a little more polite than his "friend". Now both of you go to your sheds immediately and make something nice.


Shhhhh ! I've got a few more bits of information I'd like out of him first. :lol:


----------



## ColeyS1 (17 Apr 2017)

Beau, I was originally gonna mix epoxy with something to fill the cracks, it was making shuttering to stop it sagging on the edges that put me off.




With the sikaflex I should be able to just squirt it in and let it cure for a week or two. If something doesn't feel right with a job I'm doing for myself, I just leave it till I get sick to death of seeing it unfinished. I'm at that stage now with the log slice :lol: Maybe black will look better than shiny epoxy anyway. 
The excitements back, sikaflex 290 is just what I've been waiting for.
Thanks guys
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Beau (17 Apr 2017)

ColeyS1":2z1h15s3 said:


> Beau, I was originally gonna mix epoxy with something to fill the cracks, it was making shuttering to stop it sagging on the edges that put me off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah gotcha

Yes wouldn't use epoxy graphite for that


----------



## Andy Kev. (17 Apr 2017)

AJB Temple":272tnywp said:


> Only just saw this thread. Boat work is very interesting.
> 
> Might be worth remembering re banning people. The poster was Dutch. In my experience, having lived in the Netherlands, and been married to a Dutch girl, the Dutch have a very different culture to the British. They have an extremely direct way of speaking that English people can often perceive as rude, perhaps the more so for Dutch working men. They rarely mean to be rude though. The sense of humour is very boisterous too. And he was working presumably in his second or possibly third language (second is frequently German). It is easy to judge but we do need to make allowances perhaps for foreign visitors to this site.


I actually wondered if he is Friesian/Dutch at all because his English so far has been idiomatically flawless (a non-native speaker usually gives him/herself away by some odd turn of phrase or other, not so here). I'm used to the Dutch being able to speak English at a high level but I do wonder if he is an ex-pat.


----------



## shed9 (17 Apr 2017)

Beuker":v4qbz011 said:


> Except I'm not this PalmRoyale dude. That's what you're hinting at, right? I can't prove it and I know you probably won't believe me but that doesn't matter to me.



Matters not.


----------



## CHJ (17 Apr 2017)

Everybody and anybody that is willing to pass on their knowledge or advice based on past experience is more than welcome on the forum.
The fact that those from or immersed in a different culture care to contribute and expand the intellectual database is always a bonus.

A modicum of civility is always appreciated whether from New or longer standing members as it makes Moderators lives easier whilst they concentrate on the regular background checking and general forum housework involved with a forum that regularly has 150+ folks on line and on average 9 or 10 new member sign ups a day.


----------



## Paddy Roxburgh (17 Apr 2017)

Beuker":2h05kqyq said:


> Paddy Roxburgh":2h05kqyq said:
> 
> 
> > Guys, guys, guys. What does it matter? "Beuker" is free to post here. I think you'll find he has a very similar knowledge base to PalmRoyale, and perhaps he will be a little more polite than his "friend". Now both of you go to your sheds immediately and make something nice.
> ...



Fair play, I believe you. I don't want you gone, to be honest I didn't want him gone, in my opinion he was unnecessarily rude, but a ban seems excessive, but it's not my call. 
I miss Jacob!!!


----------



## Andy Kev. (17 Apr 2017)

That's a point. Where is Jacob? He's not got banned too, has he?


----------



## D_W (17 Apr 2017)

Andy Kev.":30kbviqv said:


> That's a point. Where is Jacob? He's not got banned too, has he?



Maybe he's taken up building boats. It is, after all, the highest order of art and achievement in the world. We know because PR told us so. 

I think he got banned before he got to telling us Newton said he'd wished he'd have learned to build boats instead of discovering calculus, because boat building is so much rarer and more difficult than discovering as-yet-uncovered mathematical methods. :roll: 

Einstein, too. Maybe we'd have had the theory of float-a-tivity instead.


----------



## ED65 (17 Apr 2017)

Beuker":3knloizm said:


> Except I'm not this PalmRoyale dude. That's what you're hinting at, right? I can't prove it and I know you probably won't believe me but that doesn't matter to me. But if you guys want me gone just say so. It doesn't matter to me either way.


So here's what happened if that's the case: a Dutch guy coincidentally joined the very day another Dutch poster was banned, they both just happen to be into boats, and then on top of that the 'second' guy just stumbled upon the thread that saw the first poster banned.

I don't know about anyone else but that stretches my credulity just a tad. Especially given the thread title doesn't give any clue that there's anything to do with boats within it :roll:


----------



## Lons (17 Apr 2017)

ED65":2ety6s8m said:


> Beuker":2ety6s8m said:
> 
> 
> > Except I'm not this PalmRoyale dude. That's what you're hinting at, right? I can't prove it and I know you probably won't believe me but that doesn't matter to me. But if you guys want me gone just say so. It doesn't matter to me either way.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## yetloh (17 Apr 2017)

Just goes to show that we shouldn't jump to conclusions - something I have been guilty of myself on occasion!

Welcome to the forum Beuker and, as far as I am concerned, you are very welcome. I have certainly found UKW members very helpful and problems of bad manners or abuse seem mercifully rare. I would probably have made a different call on the Parkroyale issue but that should not be regarded as a criticism; the moderators have a difficult job to do and it is not one I would wish to take on.

Jim


----------



## NazNomad (17 Apr 2017)

Beuker":3uibtfeu said:


> ...obut I'm as British as fish & chips.



So half Portuguese and half Belgian then? ;-)


----------



## transatlantic (18 Apr 2017)

Awww man, I'm kind of upset that he got banned. I didn't find his posts rude or arrogant as they were so far past that point that they were just plain entertaining!

I'd guess that David.C (like many others) probably found it humorous too! 

I hope he comes back under a different name. I'm sure it won't be difficult to spot him 

This forum can get a little boring over time and we need people like him to stir it up every once in a while. I'd much prefer someone being direct over the overly polite PC type attitude we have today. 

People are far too easily offended these days.


----------



## NazNomad (18 Apr 2017)

transatlantic":8u5al0ab said:


> People are far too easily offended these days.



... to the point that a lot of people will go out of their way to be offended. Some even make it their life's work.


----------



## lurker (18 Apr 2017)

transatlantic":3o7vpwsf said:


> I hope he comes back under a different name. I'm sure it won't be difficult to spot him



maybe he will revert to "site seven"
Or whatever he called himself when he was using that stolen image of a Canadian salmon fisherman as his avatar


----------



## lurker (18 Apr 2017)

Beuker":89r31tcr said:


> ED65":89r31tcr said:
> 
> 
> > Beuker":89r31tcr said:
> ...



It was pretty obvious to me you were not the same chap.
Hope you stay and enjoy our "normal" friendly & welcoming ways.


----------



## hawkeyefxr (18 Apr 2017)

This sounds brilliant, i'm going to try it


----------



## ColeyS1 (18 Apr 2017)

Just ordered a couple tubes of sikaflex 291. Apparantly it does the same as 290, just an updated version. Nearly half the price aswell !
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Phil Pascoe (18 Apr 2017)

Yeah ... but is it flat?


----------



## Peter Sefton (18 Apr 2017)

phil.p":dbwbm4t1 said:


> Yeah ... but is it flat?



How very dare you :lol:


----------



## D_W (18 Apr 2017)

Beuker":3jjgsitg said:


> I actually have 4 stones (2 Choseras and 2 Pros) and 2 of them are only for my plane blades. I rarely flatten them and only use them on the bevels of my blades.



We were expecting to find that they were a king 1200 and sigma power 6000! (hammer)


----------



## David C (18 Apr 2017)

If used "only on the bevels" how is the wire edge removed?

Best wishes,
David

I find it is also a good strategy for plane blades to let the coarse stone go hollow in its width.


----------



## D_W (18 Apr 2017)

Beuker":28jiu08l said:


> Let me guess, PalmRoyale uses those stones?



That's what he told us, at least.


----------



## D_W (18 Apr 2017)

David C":160wk41a said:


> If used "only on the bevels" how is the wire edge removed?
> 
> Best wishes,
> David
> ...



I quite like it when they go hollow in their length, or rather, I tolerate that.


----------



## Droogs (19 Apr 2017)

amazing! 5 word question and 9 pages of outrage. Almost like my missus reading the Daily Mail :shock: :twisted:


----------



## Random Orbital Bob (19 Apr 2017)

good point....locked now.


----------

