# The Great Carlsberg Workshop Construction Project



## carlsberg

Hi everyone,

I have just started on the construction of my new workshop/summerhouse/hideaway 8) 

I have been inspired by our very own Mailee, who has had his workshop build published in one of the woodworking magazines.
Mailee has kindly sent me his plans in Sketchup format for me to copy(butcher?) his design.

I intend to post in pictures of the progress after every full day of work on the project. I have no previous experience of building structures of this type, but have been leeching all the advice I can get from Google  

I will also explain what I intend to do as the project goes on ,so I can hopefully get advice from forum members if i am about to mess things up.

Total workshop dimensions are going to be 4m wide, 5.8m long, with a veranda on the front taking the overall length to 7.3m.

Ok here goes....

*DAY 1*
The day was spent marking out the area for the workshop, using the 3-4-5 triangle rules for ensuring the area was 'square'.
(Pictures a little blurred, not used the digital camera for a while  )








I am in the process of digging 15 footings ( for the main building part only, not the veranda ), each one 450mmx450mm, approx a spade-and-a-half deep  
I have driven wooden stakes at intervals throughout the area, all at the same level, the ground height varies about 6 inches over the area.

I have made 15 wooden squares which i am putting around each footing, hopefully all roughly level so i can fill with concrete and have a near level base.
On top of each concrete footing i am going to cement a concrete block into place, varying the thickness of the mortar to get all 15 footings exactly level.
4 footings fully dug out, plus marking out area and making 15 squares, enough for first day. 

Spent £30 on the timber for the squares. Not in my original budget, probably not really needed, but i want this building to last for years, so i will probably do things every stage 'overkill' throughout the project.

Carlsberg

( I really hope I can speed up the forum postings, this has taken nearly an hour :shock: )


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## PowerTool

Hi there,Carlsberg,and welcome  

Suppose it's going to be "probably the best workshop in the world.." (sorry,I'll get my coat  )

Please post away,pictures and all - having built my own workshop last year,it's a subject I can always read and enjoy (and learn from)

Andrew


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## DaveL

Hi Carlsberg, 

Welcome to the forum.  

Everyone _Needs_ a *Workshop*, glad you getting yours built. :roll: 

You will get quicker at posting, its just practice, just like woodwork. 8)


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## mailee

Well Carlsberg I am flattered, thanks. I also look forward to reading your postings on the build. I have to admit I really enjoyed building mine and I am sure you will too. You will find plenty of help and advice on here if you need it. Glad the plans were of help to you too. Best of luck. :wink:


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## gwaithcoed

Hi Carlsberg

Welcome to the forum, you must hurry along and get it finished in time for Christmas just in case Santa wants to fill it with new tools    

Alan.


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## carlsberg

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone  

Today I have finished off digging all 15 footings, and levelling out the shuttering boards ready to fill with concrete mix.

Ordered 2 tons gravel, 1 ton sharp sand, 15 bags of cement and 15 solid concrete blocks which will eventually be mortared level on top of each of the footings.
Delivery will be Monday, costing £153.04

This brings total cost of project so far to £184.51

I have been compiling a list of timber needed for the floor, roof studwork and external cladding. Timber will be as follows:-

Floor Joists 6x2
Rafters and Ridge Beam 6x2
Studwork 2x4 CLS
Floor and Roof covering, Floorboard T+G
Cladding Shiplap T+G or Loglap T+G
All the above timber will be pressure treated which raises the cost significantly, but not excessively. Probably overkill, but I only intend building one of these ever.

I was advised to not use pressure treated cladding on the outside, as I would struggle getting the T+G together.. Anyone come across this? Personally I would rather struggle once and have peace of mind of using treated timber.

I am thinking of buying the majority of the materials from Berry's in Preston. Its local and one of the very few places that have a published pricelist on the internet ( a godsend for estimating costs).
At the moment I am enquiring about getting some discount on the published prices, so I have to send them my shopping list for a quote. The impression I got after talking to the sales team - a discount is looking unlikely.

Rough figures show the total project materials price coming to £3000  I intend to work on getting that figure down.

Still debating buying or hiring a mixer........future plans include total garden landscaping, large decking and large extension on the house, so buying may prove more cost effective.

I had the pleasure of using a Belle Minimix 150 Honda at the weekend, helping my friend construct the footings for a conservatory he is building. The mixer was fantastic, but at £480 :roll: 

Pictures to be posted Monday evening, after the concrete pour. 
Also.......any criticism welcomed, I want to make sure I am building this right!!

Carlsberg


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## PowerTool

> At the moment I am enquiring about getting some discount on the published prices, so I have to send them my shopping list for a quote. The impression I got after talking to the sales team - a discount is looking unlikely.



But if you don't ask,you certainly won't - it's worth trying!
Cost doesn't seem too bad for the size;I extended my shed just over eighteen months ago (concrete slab,single skin brickwork,plywood/felt roof) - extension was 2.5m x 2.5m,cost £120 for the concrete,about £800 for building materials,and about £80 for electrics - so about a third of the price for something about a third of the size.

Andrew


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## Adam

carlsberg":2nyumccx said:


> I am thinking of buying the majority of the materials from Berry's in Preston. Its local and one of the very few places that have a published pricelist on the internet ( a godsend for estimating costs).



I registered online with Travis Perkins, then you can access their pricing. Also, the card you get gives you good discount - I guess they realise most people shopping around on the internet are looking for good pricing. Also, have a chat with the chaps on the sales desk, they casn extend discount sometimes up to 40% depending ont he product. When I gave them the card, (which they post to you after registering), they swiped it and the price came down a bit futher, as the online people get slightly better discount on certain items).

Adam


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## dedee

Carlsberg, another workshop thread, there must be something in the air.

Thanks for posting. I think yours is the first of the recent workshop build threads not to have incorporated a solid base. I do hope you have thought about the possibility (in some areas inevitability) of animals making there home in what will become nice dry soil. 

My recent experience with badgers and foxes makes me very wary of not using a thick sold concrete base.

Do keep the pictures coming.

Andy


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## Waka

Carlsberg

Welcome to the forum.

Keep us posted with progress pic's


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## ByronBlack

Carlsberg, glad to see another workshop build thread! 

Your material list sounds fine to me - similar to what i've used, although i've not gone for treated materal for the framing, it's going to be covered by T&G on the outside and sheeting on the inside. I would definitly recommend re-thinking about doing everyhting in treated wood as that would bring your costs down by quite a bit, and there's nothing stopping you from treating the timber yourself with the wide range of products that are available.

Keep us posted with pics - we all love pics!


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## carlsberg

Hello, 

I have finally filled all 15 footings with concrete today, it was real hard work.

Here are some pics I took this morning before work commenced, i forgot to take pics after i had finished all the hard work :roll: 




Here are 2 close up pictures showing the variation in the ground height. All 'squares' are roughly level with each other.


 




A quick tally of costs so far, £9.00 hire for a mixer, and £3.00 on petrol for it, bringing the grand total so far....... *£196.51*

The next job is setting the 15 concrete blocks with mortar on top of each footing. I hope to get these virtually level, so I will have to wait until I get my timber order delivered so I have a 6x2 which can span the long length.
...which brings me onto my first hiccup.

I am getting my timber, DPC and insulation for the floor all from one supplier, Berrys in Preston.
The reason I chose them is that they can pressure treat all the timber to order, and the could supply me with the 4x2 CLS, which is hard to get hold of in the NW of England, even though they do not sell it normally. I spoke with the saw mill guys, he said that they could make some 4x2 CLS no problems.

I have been given a quote which is quite good on price, but now they tell me that they cant supply 4x2 CLS, they are not prepared to do a small run of only 250 linear metres of the stuff :x 

They are trying to source some 4x2 CLS, but I intend to ring them tomorrow, and place the order without it. The order is going to be at least 5 days to delivery, as that is the lead time on getting the T+G and Shiplap pressure treated.

As it happens, Jewson can supply 4x2 CLS, but only in 2.4m lengths, at £1.99+vat each.

I did subscribe to the Travis Perkins trade card, but they want £2.80+vat :shock: for a 2.4m length, and £5.92+vat :shock: for a 4.8m length!!!

So does anyone know where I can buy 4.8m lengths of 4x2 CLS in the North West? I can use a Transit van with roof rack to pick them up, I just need 18 off 4.8m, lengths.

*Now advice time........*Can I have your opinions on Log-Lap versus Ship-Lap? The supplier can provide either for the same price( i think, will clarify tomorrow). I have seen plenty of Ship-Lap buildings in the flesh, but not Log-Lap. I would be gratefull for opions from those who have seen both in real-life. I have seen internet pictures, but thats all.



> I do hope you have thought about the possibility (in some areas inevitability) of animals making there home in what will become nice dry soil.


There are pheasants running around keeping me company, I would mind if those kept shelter underneath.


> My recent experience with badgers and foxes makes me very wary of not using a thick sold concrete base.


You have just ensured that I use some thick gauge chicken wire or some sort of heavy plastic netting  suggestions most welcome!!


Im getting losts of encouragement from the other workshop-build threads, I cannot wait until i'm getting timber up on show.

Speaking of which, I have bought a Framing nailer, hoping to do the studwork and the flooring sheathing ( will a framing nailer be gentle enought to nail sheathing using 2.5mm x 50mm galvanised ring nails? )
I have gone for the Air-Tool option, as opposed to a Paslode style gun. For the same price, I can get a decent compressor, framing nailer and still have plenty of change to maybe buy a decent brad nailer. There is lots of future work to be done on the house by these tools, so i feel that they are a worthy investment.

Damn, another question..... :lol: Im looking to buy a compressor of 25l in size, and have read about the new oil-less ones being very noisy. Anyone have any experience of the oil-filled variety that are direct drive, not belt driven? As wellas lasting longer because of the lubrication, are they significantly quieter? Axminster sell an oiled one http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/2/product-Axminster-AWC25HP-Compressor-21377.htm Seems a good price to me, and should last years with light use and some TLC.

OK, I have to go, I need a hot bath, I look forward to any replies.

Regards,

Carlsberg


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## Jake

Why CLS and not just sawn 2x4? Much more readily available, especially treated.


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## Scrit

carlsberg":3vdkntbj said:


> ......another question..... :lol: Im looking to buy a compressor of 25l in size, and have read about the new oil-less ones being very noisy. Anyone have any experience of the oil-filled variety that are direct drive, not belt driven? As well as lasting longer because of the lubrication, are they significantly quieter?


Hi Carlsberg

Well the oil-less ones are noisier, yes, but there is more of a difference between 1-stage and 2-stage (queiter) and direct drive/3000 rpm belt drive and 1500 rpm (again quieter). I've had an _el Cheapo_ B&Q 7 litre airless for a few years and done a number of fencing jobs using a deWalt D51845 full round head nailer with that bag of nails. It's noisy, but it's indestructable whilst being light enough to drag around.....

Scrit


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## carlsberg

Jake":b9ebwnmi said:


> Why CLS and not just sawn 2x4? Much more readily available, especially treated.



Tried to convince myself to go with rough sawn, but after using 3x2 CLS previously, its so much nicer to work with.
Also rough sawn 4x2 costs the same as 4x2 CLS, about £1 per metre including vat. Does that sound correct?

BTW, I have decided to use non-treated for the studwork, as I am going to use breathable waterproof membrane between the cladding and the studwork.
Only joists, roof timbers and T+G flooring will be tanalised.

Keep up with the cross examination please, I need as much guidance as I can get.

Carlsberg


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## carlsberg

> using a deWalt D51845 full round head nailer



Thats the nailer I am going to use, albeit the previous model D51844.
I am currently locating some 'ammunition' for it, 90mm for the framing, 50mm for the floorboards/cladding Hot Dipped Galvanised is a must if using pressure treated timber ( so I have been educated by Google)

Maybe I sould get a 7l compressor if it handles the big nailer, like the one you have... more decisions... More price hunting, but the Axminster one seems good value to me (£80, and Einhell do one the same for less), and maybe a couple of dB quieter for workshop use.

Lots more to ponder over before I have to calculate the rafter angles and the distance to cut the 'birds-mouth'...  
Carlsberg


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## mailee

If you are looking for a compressor for the nail gun I would suggest you go for a model with a minimum output of 7CFM as this will handle the large gun. If the output is lower than this it will take a lot of air and be much slower. Of course the larger the tank the less it has to build up. I am still on the lookout for a large one as I borrowed one for mine. The small brad nailer will take very little in the way of air though. Just thought I would mention this fact before you go out and buy one. :wink:


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## Noel

Scrit":24biubtq said:


> I've had an _el Cheapo_ B&Q 7 litre airless for a few years and done a number of fencing jobs using a



Ah yes, the famous airless compressor, designed by the same Irishman who has been looking for a lake with a slope on it so he can learn to waterski........

Rgds

Paddy


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## dedee

carlsberg":1r5uikm9 said:


> My recent experience with badgers and foxes makes me very wary of not using a thick sold concrete base.
> 
> 
> 
> You have just ensured that I use some thick gauge chicken wire or some sort of heavy plastic netting  suggestions most welcome!!
Click to expand...


If you do get a badger under your shed I can assure that they can shift a lot of soil very quickly and could undermine your footings. Once you've got them it is ilegal to do anything about it yourself, unless you have the right qualifications from the Environment Agency - I think. If chicken wire is to be used I suggest that it would need to be buried at least 1 foot down.

Also if you have them and you want to get rid of them be cafeful who you speak to in the street about it - not everyone around here thinks they are a bloody nuisance in an urban environment.

Andy


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## Scrit

Noel":pg1lu3lc said:


> Scrit":pg1lu3lc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had an _el Cheapo_ B&Q 7 litre airless for a few years and done a number of fencing jobs using a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah yes, the famous airless compressor, designed by the same Irishman who has been looking for a lake with a slope on it so he can learn to waterski........
Click to expand...

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink: - OIL-less, as well you know, Paddy (Coleman balls, anybody?). 

Carlsberg

Have you tried some of the fencing supply places for collated nails? The only thing to note is that they are 20 degree strips (some of the Senco and Bostitch nailers use a different angle). If you can't get them elsewhere then there's always Spotnails. And you're dead right, you do need some form of hot-dipped or coated nails for tanalised timber.

The little OIL-less (OK, Paddy?) compressor I use can get a bit breathless, but it was cheap. I suppose it all depends on what else you'll do with it in the future. In my case I already have a large static compressor in the workshop, so buying something larger and heavier than the bare minimum wasn't really worthwhile for me. If noise abatement in the workshop is an issue the compressor can always be housed in a soundproofed box - so long as it can get a flow of air for compressing/cooling this shouldn't be a problem

Scrit

_"If I were going there, now, I wouldn't have started from here, to be sure....."_ :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## carlsberg

Hello everyone,
I have done some more work on the footings/base and have finally finished it off. Pictures taken also  

First of all let me do a total spent on getting the base complete.
Having spent an additional £22.91 on some more gravel to sit on top of the weed membrane, and £33.73 on said membrane and a roll of 600mm DPC.
Total cost for the base is *£252.20* and about 4 days of my own hard labour

I have ordered the timber which should get delivered next week, after the stuff is pressure treated.
Order consists of:-
_all the 6 x 2 timber for the floor and roof_
_8x1 timber for cross-bracing roof, 4"x4" beams to hold up roof over veranda, and some 2x5 for the veranda rails_
_430 linear metres of T+G Floorboards to cover floor and roof._
_530 linear metres of Loglap for external cladding_
_9 sheets of 60mm polystyrene insulation for under floor_
_a roll of Vapour Permeable Membrane, for under the Loglap_
_a tin of end grain treatment _
All the timber above is pressure treated in a brown colour, except the veranda rails which I hope to varnish.
That little lot weighs in at £1467.67

I still need to buy approx 250m of 4x2 for the studwork, then some roofing felt.
That should get me a waterproof structure before the bad weather comes.

Ok, pictures as promised..


 



All concrete blocks are now mortared onto the footings. Each is block is level, and within 1/8 inch :shock: in height of adjacent blocks.
I am really pleased with the results, and should give me a solid level base to build on....which should result in a level roof???? :lol: 

Now that all the dirty work is out the way, I am looking forward to start the build.


Now some replies to the comments I am very grateful for...



> If chicken wire is to be used I suggest that it would need to be buried at least 1 foot down.


Regarding the threat of animals nesting underneath.
I have spoke with family who have lived in the property for a long time, they have never seen badgers or foxes....but probably every other type of animal!! Being in the countryside, surrounded by lots of farms, maybe there are much better places for these animals to live.
However I am going to surround the underneath with chickenwire, buried maybe 6" at the most.
Given that there will be no vegetation underneath, just gravel, chickenwire will stop most animals getting underneath, there really wont be much underneath to eat.

Having done a kind of risk assessment, I feel that the fact that i am building it poses a _greater threat_ to the life of the shed than any other risks :lol: 




> In my case I already have a large static compressor in the workshop, so buying something larger and heavier than the bare minimum wasn't really worthwhile for me.


I am going to buy a substantial compressor which will eventually live in the home it is going to build. I am going for an oil filled one, that goes upto 10bar.


*Total spent on project so far is £1719.87* excluding any new tools  
More updates next week, when hopefully the wood arrives and I can start & complete the floor structure.

In the meantime, I will enjoy reading the other workshop build threads, get a compressor, and hunt down some 4x2 CLS locally.

As usual, I thank you all for all the feedback you have given.
Carlsberg


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## PowerTool

Looking good,hope you are _enjoying_ seeing it start to take shape.



> excluding any new tools



And therein lies a whole new slope... :wink: (but would love to have the thread carry on through the outfitting stage as well)

Andrew


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## wizer

comiong on nicely mate and the cost looks very reasonable so far. Wish I had that much space to build in


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## Mcluma

Looks good

when i buil our cabin i also used a compresser and nail gun (from axminster)

But also bolted down the 2 by 4 with carrige bolts, I can really recommend that one (wouldn't do nais or screws) 

the frame i screwd, more rigid then nails

and if you use screws get torx, you will not regrett it

for the siding i used the nailer as well as the osb for the floor and roof


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## carlsberg

Good Evening,
Just a quick update...

All the timber has now arrived, moved half of it, there is still a huge pile on the drive.
The build happens to be approx 80 metres from where the timber was dropped off; it was as close as I could get it dropped  

I ended up getting some 4x2 scant timber for the studding ( CLS in 4x2 form is 'as rare as hens teeth' in the Northwest of England -quoting many woodyards )
66 lengths at 2.4m.
I also wanted 18 lengths at 4.8m, but they could not source any scant in that length, so the woodyard kindly machined down some rough sawn 4x2 to the same dimensions as the scant.

Well, I am all set to move the rest of the timber tomorrow, and then start cutting the 6x2 floor joists on Sunday.

With the cost of the studding timber, total cost of project now stands at £1872.72

I will take some pictures of all the wood, almost 1 kilometer of T+G/loglap combined!

Carlsberg


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## carlsberg

Pictures i hear you say.....



Loglap cladding and floorboards for floor and roof. nearly 1 kilometer of the stuff.



66 lengths of 2x4 taking cover inside, with other bits of timber. The 4.8m lengths are hiding under the flooring insulation that can be seen through the window.



The rafters and the ridge beam 6x2's are stacked to the left, along with the 1x8 beams that connect the rafters horizontally( i don't know the correct term for those..)



The subfloor almost complete, just have to skew nail the additional pieces around the perimeter to give the studwork a 4inch solid base to sit on. I may install the chicken wire onto the back and both sides, leaving the front open until i have put in the footings for the decking. As it is now, the floor is _very_ solid with little or no flex, when the T+G is fitted it should be rock solid.

After i got to this stage, i carried 3/4 of all the remaining timber and stacked it to the left, then covered with tarps. Did i mention it all had to be carried 80m??? :evil: I was totally wiped out after this.

All the timber except the studding timber is pressure treated with 'Naturewood Brown' same protection as tanalith wood, but with the colouring. I am pleased with the colour, should save me from having to stain/paint/treat for some years hopefully.

I intend to give the studwork 2 coats of wood preservative beforei clad it.

I am not able to continue the work until Monday at the earliest, so no updates until then.
£8.50 to add to the total for the nails used on the subfloor, grand total so far *£1881.22*

I am looking forward to cutting up the polystyrene insulation and getting the floorboards laid.
I have 50mm insulation, so there will be 40-50mm of free space. I am thinking of putting some rockwool over the top of the polystyrene to reduce noise through the floor.....anyone have any thoughts on this?



> But also bolted down the 2 by 4 with carrige bolts


 I will definitely be using carriage screws, probably 5" to fix down the sole-plates of each side.

Im finding the current spate of 'workshop building fever' very useful for advice and tips. I just hope I can get mine watertight before the bad weather comes...and before i empty my wallet !!

Carlsberg


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## Lord Nibbo

carlsberg, let me in on your secret.....How do you manage to keep your work site so clean & tidy?

It's looking good, it's gonna be some work shop.


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## wizer

still jelous, can't help it [-(


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## mrbingley

I can't help but think that this is a hell of a lot of money to spend on building a workshop.
It must be cheaper to buy ready made and spend the saving on tools ?

Look at this one:
http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk/ ... n-Workshop

Just my thoughts on the subject.

Chris.


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## ByronBlack

Mr Bingly

It's a small price to pay considering it;s going to be consideragly bigger, with a bigger headroom - have you noticed how low those sheds are ?? Also, the frame is very weak compared to a 2x4 frame

I think it's a bargain price to pay considering if it;s built properly, its going to be standing for the next 20+ years.


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## wizer

those building also do not have any sort of insulation or damp proofing


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## Freetochat

I have a small query please:- Was there a specific reason for laying a block on top of the footing pads to support the floor joists. Could the joists not be supported direct on the pads, even if they needed raising a little higher out of the ground for clearence?

Great build and far superior to a flimsy purchased one!

Regards


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## Mcluma

mrbingley":3cwwkx9j said:


> I can't help but think that this is a hell of a lot of money to spend on building a workshop.
> It must be cheaper to buy ready made and spend the saving on tools ?
> 
> Look at this one:
> http://www.gardenbuildingsdirect.co.uk/ ... n-Workshop
> 
> Just my thoughts on the subject.
> 
> Chris.



that is not a workshop, and please do not make those comparisons any more, what you see here and on other threads being build are complete houses (like you see in the states)

fully insulated, water and wind proof, with high walls that will give years and years of pleasure, and a lot of pride and joy in building it and showing it of to friends and famely, a place you can call your own, and all the thoughets and months of planning / calculating that has gone into it is worth more than buying a bike shed

sorry for the rant, but this is serious


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## filsgreen

Mrbingley, half the fun IS the building and planning that goes into the workshop. I am certainly jealous of Carlsberg because although I have built my workshop, I would love to have the space and money to build another  . I would also be able to rectify mistakes and improve the design.

Phil


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## mrbingley

I understand the satisfaction of building your own, I also built my own workshop. But the reason I did so was to SAVE money, not to just build something because I can.

My shed was sized to suit the width of the box profile sheets that cover the outside (6 X 3 mtrs).
A light 2" X 2" frame, because the box profile sheets add a considerable amount of strength and rigidity.
It is fully insulated with rockwool & has OSB as the inner wall lining.
It's been up for nearly 20 years now & shows no signs of deterioration. I expect it to see me out :wink: .


Don't get me wrong, I'm not running the fella down for making his own, just seems like a lot of money.

Chris.


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## ByronBlack

Bingly, what is a lot of money? Someone could spend upwards of 40k on a workshop and get great satisfaction from it, or you could buy a crappy B&Q jobbie for £800 and equally be as satisified.

I can't understand your opinion that it's expensive. The price carlsberg is spending is not that much more than i've spent on mine, and it's well worth the price, how much would a builder charge to build one of these? 5k 10k more?


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## dennyk

Hi Carlsberg
where are you in Southport ?, my daughter lives in Churchtown, as you can see I'm down the road in Liverpool, and I am up in southport quite a bit to see my daughter and the Grand children, I could call in to see you , if you wish


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## mailee

I agree on all points about building your own workshop. I built mine last year and am very glad I did. i priced up the log cabin type of structure in the same size and it was almost twice the price without insulation and electrics! at £4000! I enjoyed every minute of it, the planning, the building and the fitting out. I wasn't too keen ont eh clearing the ground bit but that was a necessary evil I am afraid. These builds you see here are much stronger than any 'shed' you can buy off the peg and as has been mentioned will with care last many years. Mine has double glazing and measures 23' X 13' with a veranda and rails and could easily be mistaken for a summer house or log cabin for that matter With central heating in there I could live in it if SWMBO ever threw me out. :lol: Yes I think it is worth every penny spent for my own hand built workshop and the sense of pride I get from adoration of others is.......Priceless.........for everything else theres Mastercard. :wink:


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## Sandy

Hi Carlsberg,

I'm finding this diary really interesting as I'm wanting to look at building my own workshop.

Can I ask a couple of questions though?

1) CLS? I'm ok with most abbreviations, eg PAR, OSB etc but, never come across CLS.

2) I can see the purpose of making concrete pads to rest the joists on. But, why the 'breeze block' type of block to raise the joists up of the pads? Why not make the concrete pads a bit higher so the joist rest directly on top of the pads? Please don't think I'm criticising. I've never done it myself (yet) and don't have a better idea, I'm just curious.

Good luck with the rest of it. I'm looking forward for more of your updates and pictures.

Sandy


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## PowerTool

Sandy":21suclmy said:


> 1) CLS? I'm ok with most abbreviations, eg PAR, OSB etc but, never come across CLS.



CLS - Canadian Lumber Standard - has the edges rounded to a 3mm radius (generally used for studwork)

Andrew


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## carlsberg

Hi,
Not had chance to do any further work on the build, but I eager to continue on Monday.



> Could the joists not be supported direct on the pads, even if they needed raising a little higher out of the ground for clearence?


Yes they could, but there is method in my madness.
I located the highest point and made the first footing level with the ground, then built up the other footings to get the same level. It is quite difficult to get all the footings exactly level, but easy to get them roughly level with each other. By 'laying' a block on a bed of mortar on each footing allows you to get a very accurate level across all footings.
The top face of each of my blocks is level in both directions within itself, and of equal level height to all the rest. Using the block allows you to 'fine-tune' each individual footing to get a very even level base.

I also enabled me to place the blocks exactly 4000mm apart on the external faces for the width, so the blocks will be under the timber joists and not stick out.
This also has made it easy to get the timber subfloor exactly square by aligning with the blocks.


> I can't help but think that this is a hell of a lot of money to spend on building a workshop.


I estimate I will probably spend £2600 on the whole project; that is totally waterproof, insulated, with full lighting and electrics.
Compared to the price price people pay for a conservatory, I feel that the amount is good value for money for spending on a workshop-for-life. Please take a look at Mailee's workshop pictures ( the workshop I am 'cloning' thanks to him sharing his plans with me ) , I am sure you will agree that for the money, you cannot buy a better building.
Also the enjoyment I am getting out of this build is priceless. I am really very exited about building this, learning every step of the way.




> where are you in Southport ?, my daughter lives in Churchtown, as you can see I'm down the road in Liverpool, and I am up in southport quite a bit to see my daughter and the Grand children, I could call in to see you , if you wish


I am in Tarleton just outside of Southport. I have just been helping my freund build his conservatory in kit form. I was a rather large conservatory, 'L-shaped' around one corner of his house. 
As of now he owes me 4 days labour  , which has already been pencilled in for when I do the roof. Thanks for the kind offer though.



> It's a small price to pay considering it;s going to be consideragly bigger, with a bigger headroom - have you noticed how low those sheds are ??


 :?: How high should my walls be at the eaves? I really don't have a clue, but I am thinking of somewhere in the region of 2.2m - 2.5m. The horizontal load bearing roof beams are a few inches above the eaves height , which will increase headroom further.

:?: Can anyone advise me on my floor insulation? I have got 50mm polystyrene to be 'hung' between each of the joists. This will allow me 100mm space to put in rockwool for additional sound dampening, if you people think it would be a good idea. Will 50mm of polystyrene be sufficient on its own? Am I correct that rockwool is one of the better insulators of sound, as opposed to fibreglass or the kingspan type boards?




> Please don't think I'm criticising. I've never done it myself (yet) and don't have a better idea, I'm just curious.


No critism taken. I honestly want all comments from everyone, to hopefully keep me on the correct track throughout the build.


Next update hopefully Monday evening, with more pictures. I am hoping to get the floor insulation and some of the floorboards down. I must warn everyone that there may be some gloat  pictures on Monday evening if the rain keeps away and I bring out the Festool rail saw to cut the insulation boards. If it is raining, i will be cutting them with a handsaw.

Carlsberg.


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## PowerTool

Hi there - glad it's all going well,looking forward to the next lot of pictures  
You will have plenty of height with 2.2m+ (mine is 2metres/6'6" at it's lowest) - you just need to take account of where your light fittings will be,and leave enough headroom under them;anything above that level is just extra storage space.
And I believe you are right in that rockwool is supposed to be better for noise suppression.

Good luck with the rest of the build.

Andrew


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## carlsberg

Day 7 update.....( i think its day 7, lost track :? )

Spent lots of time moving the wood around to get it better ventilated and undercover.
I then fitted all the 50mm polystyrene insulation in between all the floor joists. This was totally boring, cutting and fitting all 36 pieces. I was glad when i fitted the final piece. 
It is very hard work even though the stuff is very light, due to being bent over all the time.



 

 



I then managed to put down almost a quarter of the floorboards before it got dark ( pictures to be taken in daylight!!)

Everything is back under the tarpaulins until tomorrow......rain is forecast, so I may have to spend the time cutting the 4x2 to size for the studwork.

Carlsberg


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## mailee

Really enjoying the build Carlsberg keep up the good work. Praying for fair weather for you. :wink:


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## dedee

Carlsberg,

How is that polysterene supported?

Andy


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## carlsberg

> How is that polysterene supported?



Some 4" galv nails into the joists, 50mm below the top level so the polystyrene sits flush with the top. I also used up some plastic clips that i had, although they probably are not needed.

I managed to get mosts of the floorboards down today, just 5 more board runs to go  
I got drenched with all the rain, hopefully friday will be a better day so i can finish the floor and install the chicken-wire around the perimeter.

 Forgot to take a picture before i covered everything over with tarps.... i will have the camera ready and waiting on Friday.

Carlsberg


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## wizer

are you building the walls on top of the floor boards?


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## carlsberg

> are you building the walls on top of the floor boards?



Yes. I couldn't think of a reason to justify the extra work of installing battens around the perimeter to allow me to lay the floor 4" in from each side.

The floorboards are pressure treated, so should last the life of the structure as it has plenty of airflow to keep the floor structure dry.
Should i ever have to remove any, i can always cut them and install battens to replace them.

The sound insulation of the floor is still niggling me. I don't want excess noise emanating from the workshop, but there was no way I could incorporate any sound dampening insulation into the raised wooden flooring. The reason being was that the sound insulation (rockwool) i was looking at using absorbs water which is bad for the structure.

All i have by way of insulation is 50mm polystyrene, and a few inches of air below it.

In the future, if noise becomes an issue, i will place a floating floor within, laid on a bed of sound dampening material.
I am going to increase the headroom when i start the studwork, to accommodate this should it be necassary.

As always, please halt me in my tracks if i am on the wrong path.

Carlsberg


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## ByronBlack

Carlsberg, while your currently doing the floor, it might make sense to build up the floor with the sound-proofing at this stage rather than later? In hindsight, I wish I did this with mine, but I don't want to now compromise the headroom.

I will have the rockwool in the walls though. Great thread by the way, nice to see another workshop thread and all the little differences, makes me want to start another one!


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## Johnboy

I used 8x2 floor joists, nailed some battens 4" down and laid some 1/4" wpb ply on these and then 4" fibreglass with 18mm T & G moisture resistant chipboard flooring on top. Never thought about the insulation absorbing water, there is a free flow of air under the workshop so I hope it wont be a problem. After 5 years I havn't fallen through the floor yet so hope it will be OK. :lol: 

John


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## carlsberg

:?: help required.

I am currently planning out 4x2 layout for the stud walls.... Can anyone please tell me the heights that the windows should be?

How high above floor level should the windows be, and what vertical size should the windows be themselves? Please don't tell me it is upto me :? ...i really don't have a clue.

There will be 2 windows on the front side, one either side of the door, and 2 windows on the left hand wall. On the right hand side, I am thinking of installing some high level glass blocks at a high level to let in some of the late afternoon/evening sunlight.



> I used 8x2 floor joists, nailed some battens 4" down and laid some 1/4" wpb ply on these and then 4" fibreglass with 18mm T & G moisture resistant chipboard flooring on top. Never thought about the insulation absorbing water, there is a free flow of air under the workshop so I hope it wont be a problem. After 5 years I havn't fallen through the floor yet so hope it will be OK.


I was going to lay 100mm rockwool on top of the 50mm polystyrene, underneath the T+G. I am glad i never, as with the rain we had, i would have had 21 square metres of saturated rockwool :shock: at 100mm thick, that is over 2 tons of water soaked into it... surely would have taken forever to dry out once sealed in by the polystyrene and T+G.
I will wait until the structure is fully waterproof before thinking about using any rockwool.

With the days coming and going faster than ever, I have to work on the project no matter what the weather. I need to be fully waterproof before work is halted by really bad/cold weather.

I have a full day on the project tomorrow, pics to follow.

Carlsberg


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## PowerTool

Think the height of your windows affects what materials you can use to glaze them (from memory - which is often hazy,so please check elsewhere :lol: - anything below 3' from floor level needs to be safety glass.)


Andrew


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## mailee

I don't know if this is any help but I sited my windows level with the RAS table so that I could if need arises open them up for l.o.n.g lenghts. Roughly about 3' 6" from the floor on my build. :wink:


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## carlsberg

> I don't know if this is any help but I sited my windows level with the RAS table so that I could if need arises open them up for l.o.n.g lenghts. Roughly about 3' 6" from the floor on my build.


Thanks Mailee, thats the same height as my house, so i will make the openings in the studwork 3' 4" to allow for the window frame thickness.
Could you please tell me the actual dimensions of the window frames, and of your door openings? I have a friend who makes window frames, i am going to see if he can make me some...just wondering if you can buy double glazed units in any size :?: 


I accomplished lots today, finished the floor, and assembled the studwork for the back wall and right hand wall ( looking at the structure.)
The floor structure has plenty of moisture absorbed in it from the flood type weather the other day....the surface seems dry, but laying down my paper plans on the floor resulted in them becoming all damp. The tarps are now over the stud walls, so plenty of airflow to allow it to breath and dry i hope.

Some pictures..


 Tarps just taken off, as you can see, lots of water on the project due to me working the other day during the torrential downpour we had. 3/4 of the floorboards down. Since it is now dry, i can use the compressor and nailgun which makes the job significantly easier. The slowest part of the job is still clamping the boards together before nailing.



All floorboards laid. Since most of them were done in the rain, i didn't cut them to size, but let them overhang. I have screwed a board down offset from the edge to allow me to trim them flush with the joist with my scary, loud,cheap B+Q circular saw.



A nice flush cut, carried out on 3 of the sides. On the remaining side, there is just the 'tongue' sticking out, which I will hand plane flush once the studwork is erected.



 All cut edges throughout the project have been sealed with end-grain treatment. It seems to be spirit based so the end-grain soaks it up well.



 The rear wall studwork being assembled. The air nailer works flawlessly with the '90mm ring shanked hot dipped galvanized plastic collated nails :!: ' When laying the floorboards with the 50mm versions of said nails, i was having lots of problems with the firing pin not fully returning to allow the next nail to move into position. I plan to remedy when doing the sheathing by reducing the depth adjustment, but applying more pressure on the nailer. This seemed to work on the last few floorboards i laid.



 Half of the side frame completed, i then finished the second half. I can manage to manoeuvre the 4m back wall single handed, which is a bonus. For once I could finish the job early...still have not designed the layout/sizes for the dors and window openings on the other 2 sides.

Sunday i intend to apply 2 coats of wood preserver to the studwork and erect the 2 sides. ( the only timber not pressure treated, but it is totally covered up by the vapour barrier on the inside, and the breathable membrane on the outer). Then i hope to make the other 2 sides and paint/assemble those also. That will give me the 4 sides complete, ready to start on the roof structure.

I hope you all enjoy the pictures, Sunday evening i will post some good 'shape-change' pictures hopefully  

This was day 9, and more money spent on the HDG collated nails. Running total now stands at *£2039.10*.
Apart from the odd bit of timber, all i need to buy to complete the project is the vapour barrier for inside, the internal cladding and the roof covering. I think i have all the materials for the electrics already, if not my electrician friend will :lol: 

I may well be able to complete this project within the £2600 budget i put to one side.

Carlsberg


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## mailee

Hi Carlsberg. Two windows on the side are 4' wide X 3' high, The front windows are 3' wide X 3' high, the rear one which is Plexiglass is 3' wide X 2' high and the door opening is 6' X 4'. You can buy double glazed units made up to your own size as this is what I did with mine. Not too bad price wise either as I ordered 6 panels and it cost me £80. hope this is of help to you mate. :wink:


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## carlsberg

Here is the Day 10 update, only £5.88 spent today on Creosote Substitute, total so far is £2044.98

All 4 walls are now vertical  , all of tomorrow will probably be spent adding noggings to the structure  .



 I used the creosote substitute on the underside of each stud wall, where it rests on the floor.

Sorry for the rest of the pictures, darkness started to creep in at 18:00 :shock:



 

 



You can see my mistake on one of the window openings, i fitted it underneath the line i marked, not above. I have put another piece on top of this to achieve the correct height.

The weather has stayed good, and tomorrow should be dry also.

Once the noggings are installed, i may attempt putting up the ridge beam, and attach the rafters. That all depends on how stable the structure is, otherwise i will commence the cladding from the bottom up.

Carlsberg


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## wizer

That looks great, your picking up speed now 


Proper Job, as they say.


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## carlsberg

Todays update, lets call this day 11 and 1/2,
I spent yesterday fitting all the noggings, and i spent a few hours on the project today cutting the ends of the rafters, just have to cut the bird-mouth next.



I have bought some truss clips to attach the bottom of each rafter onto the side walls, some stainless steel threaded rod, SS 120mm coach bolts, large square washers and SS nylock nuts.
Tomorrow I can bolt all the frame securely together, and remove the clamps that are currently holding the sidewalls to each other.

I need to purchase 2 more items of hardware, of which i am having great difficulty locating.
To attach the rafters to the ridge beam, i need these, but i cannot find anyone who has them ( not even online). If i cannot get these, it will make the job of securing the rafters to the ridge beam more difficult.
I have emailed them and asked for my local stockists. I really need them by weekend, or i will have to do it the hard way and nail the rafters to the ridge beam  

The second piece of hardware i need are these ( 4 of them for 1 joint). This is because i could not get a 7.3m length of 6x2. If i cannot source these before weekend, i will have to join the ridge beam between the rafters using another method :x

My roof pitch is going to be 20.5 degrees, quite low angle, which is why i am putting lots of effort in trying to do ensure it is strong and secure.
Having done some google research, i have found out about the effects of wind over pitched roofs......there are uplift forces that try to lift the roof as the wind passes over :shock: I am probably just being over cautious as per usual, but i found myself securing the studwork with galvanized banding today..to be on the 'safe side'.

For the extra cost of using stainless steel instead of galvanized bolts etc the total cost so far has gone up to £2171.50.

Items still needed to buy are interior vapour barrier, insulation and cladding. Also doors and windows. It will be interesting to see if i can keep within my budget :lol:

I hope people are still finding this project interesting, i am enjoying it thoroughly, just a bit apprehensive of attempting the roof without the rafter connectors.

Next update at the weekend when hopefully there will be another 'shape-change' on the project.

Carlsberg


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## PowerTool

> I hope people are still finding this project interesting,



Oh yes,without doubt  
It's great to follow someone else building a workshop,as sometimes you see some good ideas you can use in your own shop;however,sometimes you see things you kick yourself for _not_ doing in your own..
It's also nice to be able to follow how the budget is doing,down to the penny.

Good luck with the weather for the rest of the build [-o< 

Andrew


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## mailee

I don't know if this is of any help for your ridge beam but you could joint it with a scarfe joint with opposing 'hooks' on, for the life of me I can't think what the name of the joint is called. No doubt someone on here will be able to tell you shortly. This can then be reinforced with a couple of facings either side of the joint. If I remember correctly Tommy Walsh used the same joint on his 'Ultimate workshop build' I did nail my rafters to the ridge beam and have had no problems with this system at all. Once the crossbracing is in place on the rafters they act like clamps onto the ridge beam anyway. Just a thought for you. :wink:


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## carlsberg

> I did nail my rafters to the ridge beam and have had no problems with this system at all.



It just me looking for the easy option every time  The thought of being 3.5m up in the air, with a wallowing great 7.3m ridge beam bouncing around while i am trying to hit in 4" nails through it, at the same time trying to keep the rafter perfectly aligned  I like the idea of just tapping in 4 square twist nails once the rafter is propped into position via the connector 

I have found a website that has some good tips that i may try out should i not be able to get the ridge connectors, its here. Most of it doesn't make sense to me, but i understand the bracket gadget that is clamped to the ridge beam...that looks like it will help alot and speed up the job.



> don't know if this is of any help for your ridge beam but you could joint it with a scarfe joint with opposing 'hooks' on, for the life of me I can't think what the name of the joint is called. No doubt someone on here will be able to tell you shortly. This can then be reinforced with a couple of facings either side of the joint.



I noticed the joint on the SU diagram you kindly sent me. I dont think i have the ability to make such a joint and the end result being exactly level....yet again the easy option of using the splice joint metalwork leaps out at me  
I was thinking of facing either side of a butt joint, and cross-bolting through...this would have to be between rafters. 
I have actually found a place on the web that sells the splice plates, so i may place an order tomorrow...pity they dont also sell the ridge connectors 

I am just eager to get the roof on, as easily and painless as possible, so as i can start to make the structure waterproof.



> Good luck with the weather for the rest of the build


Thankyou, my fingers are crossed also......although i have got my waterproofs ready for tomorrow  

Carlsberg


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## les chicken

You do not need those fancy rafter thingys.

Every other rafter each side is put up and screw using 3" decking screws through the beam into the rafter. The other side is screwed at at an angle through the beam into the rafter. If you follow me.

The joint for the ridge beam, cut the beam at 45deg align and use 12mm plywood each side as long as you can between the rafters and glue and screw each side.

This will not move and if you are using ply on the roof will make it solid, check out my thread "not another workshop but"

Les


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## carlsberg

Day 12 and 1/2

Started out the day laying out and installing the truss clips onto the walls, to help align the rafters.

Next i bolted down the sole plate using 120mm SS coach bolts, 20 in total around the perimeter.

Then i proceeded to cut up the SS threaded bar and bolt together the separate wall segments. I have not finished all of this yet; there will be 3 connections on each wall; at least one on each joint has been done.

The whole structure is now a lot more rigid, with very little racking. I have clambered all over it while doing some more preservative of the untreated 4x2.

I have also put 2 temporary crossbraces across the roof to keep the side walls exactly at 4000mm apart...to help with installing the rafters this weekend.

I did not get chance to cut the birdsmouth on the rafters today, but i have that job penciled in for friday morning.


 

 

 



The SS threaded rod was really hard to cut, ended up using the angle grinder to cut it, and then chamfering the end to allow the nut to start. The 7 cuts i made has eaten half a cutting disc...i gave up on the hacksaw after 5 mins of cutting and little progress.

The weather stayed brilliant all day, lets hope Friday is as good.

Carlsberg


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## Barry Burgess

Carlsberg I thread a nut on before the cut and then thread it over the cut so I do not have to do anything as the nut then works fine - if you know what I mean. With M12 I just use a good hacksaw blade - the grinder takes to long and I have my grinder mounted in a stand 
Barry


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## Shultzy

Hi carlsberg - I'm enjoying this and all the other workshop threads. Its amazing how many little items one can pick up on when its in writing. 

Windows - I know you have already put the window openings in, so this is just for others wanting advice. The bottom of the window opening is dictated by the hight of the workbench you want to put under it. The best way to determine this hight is to stand with a plane in your hand at a comfortable hight and get someone to measure how far its off the floor. You can then decide how high off the bench you want the window sill. I have a back problem so I'm having my bench at 44". 

Doors - I don't know what size your doors are but I have decided to make the whole of one end open with two folding doors and a single door. I think with all the insulation the workshop will get very warm in the summer, also it allows getting large pieces in or out more easily. 

Electrics - I've noticed you haven't made any allowances for your incoming electric supply. Remember this supply might have to take 32amps (its quite a thick cable) and the cable will have to be buried. 

Security - I'm going to make cladded frames hinged under the windows, when folded up put a couple of coach bolts through to the inside with wing nuts on. Its reasonably cheap and it means you can have plastic or acrylic windows. 

Wireless Alarms systems are pretty cheap now which you could extend from the house at a later date.


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## 9fingers

Shultzy":20gkrhn1 said:


> I think with all the insulation the workshop will get very warm in the summer,



Insulation will also help keep the workshop cool in the summer!

Bob


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## carlsberg

> With M12 I just use a good hacksaw blade


 I was using the angle grinder as the hacksaw blades were just blunting very quickly........upon further inspection they said on them 'for cutting soft metal' :roll: I bought some decent blades, and i can cut through the SS M12 like a hot knife through butter.....and it leaves such a clean cut the nuts go on easily 
Day 14 update, another £7.00 on more 4" galv round wire nails, bringing the grand total to £2178.50

The ridge beam is joined, erected and all the rafters are securely in place.   

I have now fitted tarps to the roof to make it pretty waterproof. Will not have time to work on the project until next weekend.

Pictures again quickly before it went completely dark, but i will post better ones with more detail on how i connected the 2 halves of the ridge beam using some spikey type washers to improve the strength of the joint.



 

 


The white 2x4 running vertical and horizontal are just temporary to brace the walls and ridge beam at the correct height/width while i let loose with the hammer.

I have also spent some more time adding in more bolted joints between each wall section....the end result to have each piece bolted 3 times to the next.

I have to say that assembling the roof was one of the most exhausting jobs i have done in a long time. Man-handling all those heavy waterlogged 6x2 lengths of timber around certainly strains every muscle in your body :!: The ridge beam was a very heavy lump, at 7.3m, plus the weight of the joining pieces.

I am looking forward to next weekend to fit the rafter gussets and cross-braces. Then hopefully start some of the cladding to remove what little racking there is.



> I've noticed you haven't made any allowances for your incoming electric supply.


That will come later, but its looking like well over 50m of armoured that will be run along the side of the concrete gravel boards on the fence, in some conduit. I am sure that there is a way of running power over this long distance without digging, and still complying with the elec regs. My main concern is getting a completely waterproof sturdy structure before winter, electrics are next years problem  



> Security - I'm going to make cladded frames hinged under the windows, when folded up put a couple of coach bolts through to the inside with wing nuts on.


This sounds like a good idea, will the shutters be internal or external?


Carlsberg


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## Shultzy

The shutters will be on the outside, a bit like a gate turned 90deg anticlockwise, hinged at the bottom with long hinges. 3"x1" bearers lined up with the verticals either side of the windows, one or two in between depending on the size of the window, covered with cladding. Drill right through the end bearers and insert coach bolts and fix on the inside with washer and wingnut. If you don't want them to open fully (ie you have something under the windows, plants etc), drill a hole through one or both of the middle bearers and the beam above the window and insert a length of rope


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## carlsberg

Hello,

Managed to do a few more days work on the project. Total days so far is approx 17 full days work. 
Costs now stand at £2272.58. I bought some staples to fix the building membrane, 5l of wood preserver to coat the 4x2's. I also bought some batons to use as temporary corner pieces for the cladding. Another £58.60 at Screwfix on SS threaded bar, nuts, washers etc. Finally £13 on some strips of plywood for the rafter gussets.

All the frame is now fully bolted together, the ridge beam joint is complete, and the four 8x1 horizontal rafter crossbraces are now bolted into position. Plywood gussets have yet to be cut and bolted on, also the T+G roofing deck has still to be fitted once the wall cladding is finished.

I made a start on the frame for the decking at the front of the building. I need to set four 4x4 posts into concrete to fix it to the ground....with the frosty weather coming, I need to plan a warmish morning to do it.

I reckon that the job has taken me 2 days extra so far,due to me making up my own bolts etc from the threaded bar. Even when I got the knack, its a slow process especially when using nylock nuts. I would buy proper bolts if I had to do it again!



 

 



I used a double layer of the breathable membrane, then applied the log-lap. I managed to get 3 sides upto halfway complete.
I then finished off the wood preservative on the studwork, just before it went dark at 4pm :x 

I used a 45mm 15g galv finish nails to attach the cladding, it seems to be pretty solid. Maybe when the cladding is complete, I might snap a chalk line where the vertical studs are, and put a large nail into each peice of loglap, in the centre.

I still have to install the chickenwire on 2 of the sides and the banding to strengthen the wall to floor connection. I can then hopefully finish off all the cladding. 

I should get one full days work on the project this weekend, so I will update then if there is a 'shape-change'.

Carlsberg


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## PowerTool

Thanks for the update - hope you are starting to see "the light at the end of the tunnel"  

Weathers turned a bit nippy,though,hasn't it  

Andrew


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## mailee

I would definitely put some more nails through the loglap into the uprights Calsberg. Mine are nailed at every upright just to prevent any warping of the lap. Plus it also gives more rigidity to the frame too. :wink: Glad to see you posting again, I am enjoying it mate.


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## carlsberg

> I used a 45mm 15g galv finish nails to attach the cladding



Whoops, i meant to say I used 2 of those nails at each verticle member ( 1/4 way in from top and bottom of the board) , so each length has approx 20 - 30 nails holding it on.

For piece of mind, I am going to put an extra fastening into the centre of each board on each verticle stud, but at a ater date. Either a decking screw or a larger ringshank galv nail.

Carlsberg


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## Sandy

Hey Carlsberg,

When's the next episode coming out?? It's like waiting for the next episode of 24. I can't wait.

I'm not sure if someone hasn't already asked this before, but, as I am thinking of making a workshop in my own garden, I'm toying with the idea of a self build timber shed, or, a brick built one. I was wondering why you specifically chose timber for yours? I'm interested to know if you considered both and why you ultimately chose the methods you did?

Thanks.

Sandy.


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## carlsberg

Hi Sandy, you pipped me to the post..  

I finally got to do some work on the shed  ....work has kept me busy recently. I was hoping to get the roof deck fixed on by end-of-play Monday, but I will be lucky to get the cladding finished. 2 more days working on the project before I go away for week to warmer climates  
Progress seems slow...but then again maybe its a slow process :? 

DAY 19 & 1/2 ... wet and very windy.

First of all, let me get the financials out of the way..
Total so far is now *£2356.09*
Bought some more 15g nails for the cladding, had to buy some more treated 4x4 for the ground anchors for the decking part, and some 4x2 treated to be used on the roof overhang.
I also bought some more cement and gravel for the mix to set in the posts.


 The four posts that are set in the ground will support the decking. I will also crossbolt the four main 4x4 supports for the veranda roof overhang to them. The concrete is chamfered up around each post, so that water will run off, and not pool around the treated post.


Take a look at these pictures, I am nearly 3/4 way through completing the wall cladding.
Its a real struggle to get the breathable membrane attached to the studs when the wind is howling :roll:



 



I have made an overhang on the rear gable end to prevent water running down the rear wall, i'll photo that when I have finished cladding it to the top.

I am thinking of using the loglap for the interior cladding, natural pine colour, not the treated colour like the exterior.



> I'm toying with the idea of a self build timber shed, or, a brick built one. I was wondering why you specifically chose timber for yours? I'm interested to know if you considered both and why you ultimately chose the methods you did?



I was initially going to buy a log cabin, and then add insulation, and internal cladding. (There is a brilliant time lapse video on the internet of someone building there log cabin from a kit.)

I did plenty of research, and stumbled across lots of people building there own. A member of this forum called Mailee built the same building ( I copied his..) and this inspired me to have a go myself.

I don't think that a brick/block structure was ever considered, i wanted a log-cabin look from the start.

I did consider the foundations and felt that my way of doing it was much easier for me to do, rather than going the whole hog and making a concrete slab foundation.



:?: A quick question about the facia boards . Am I correct in saying that I should fix a beam on the end of the rafters? Then this gets covered over with felt, and then the facia gets attached over the top of the felt? I have struggled to find much information on this.


I will do an update on Monday evening...hopefully fully cladded.

Carlsberg


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## 9fingers

carlsberg":276if9ha said:


> I will do an update on Monday evening...hopefully fully cladded.
> 
> Carlsberg



In the interests of public decency, I hope you will be fully clad when you next address the forum! LOL

Thanks for an interesting thread.

Bob


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## mailee

Carlsberg, My build had a runner of timber on the ends of the roof beams with the felt wrapped over and then the facia was set back under the end of the roof beams. This gives the rain a place to drip off or indeed a place for the guttering if you fit it to be mounted so the water run off will hit the gutter. Just wrap the felt around the timber runner and back under onto the beam ends. The facia can then be screwed onto the beam ends and treated or stained. Hope this is of help. :wink:


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## andys wood shed

Sandy":3f2hlps2 said:


> Hey Carlsberg,
> 
> 
> I'm not sure if someone hasn't already asked this before, but, as I am thinking of making a workshop in my own garden, I'm toying with the idea of a self build timber shed, or, a brick built one. I was wondering why you specifically chose timber for yours? I'm interested to know if you considered both and why you ultimately chose the methods you did



Sandy
Check with your local council as each one is different. Where I live you are allowed to erect a wooden shed as it is classed as a temporary structure within a permitted size. A brick building would require planning/ building regs. The webb site of your local council might have sufficient information and might save you drawing attention to your workshop :wink: 
One thing that may interest you is that pre-cast concrete garages are usually deemed as temporary structures also.

Andy


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## carlsberg

Just a quick update,

Day 21 completed.
I managed to get most of the cladding done, and erected the 2 outer posts for the roof overhang. These posts have been braced by the pieces of untreated timber, to keep them perfectly level while the rest of the overhang is assembled.




I also put a temporary fascia board onto the end of the rafters, to enable me to stretch the tarps properly to stop water dripping inside the cabin. Im am quite happy now that no more water will get inside, except what is blown in through the openings.


 




Also had a good tidy up and re-stacked all remaining timber inside the structure.

No updates now until I return in a weeks time.

Carlsberg

....PS No increase in the running total this time


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## ByronBlack

It's looking great Carlsberg!! Nice work all round!


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## carlsberg

Hello,
Another long overdue update.

I have been doing the odd few hours here and there, working around the weather mainly.
Total build time is approx 24 long days now, long days  
The cost of the project has crept up further, as i bought yet more 4" galv nails, some more gravel to sprinkle underneath the decking area and the decking timber itself.
I also bought 28 metres of 38mm x 175mm treated timber to fix onto the ends of the rafters, and to make the gable overhang on the rear of the structure.
This cost me £197.14 , bringing the total spend so far to £2553.23.

I have finally finished off the front overhang and the four upright posts .
This had me scratching my head lots as I didn't have any sort of plans to follow.


 


I have managed to get all four posts almost true to the spirit level.
The only mistake is that as you look directly front-on at the roof, the apex of the overhang is over to the left a couple of inches. I don't think it will cause any issues.


I have also attached the timbers to the ends of the rafters, and made the overhang at the rear gable.






The next job is to get the roof T+G fitted, and the cheap felt covering I can find to see it through winter. I am probably going to have a felt shingle roof eventually to make it more attractive.

Weather permitting, I am going to tackle the roof this weekend. I estimate 3 full days to get the T+G attached judging by how long it took to do the floor and allowing for the numerous 'up+down the ladders' :roll: 

Carlsberg


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## carlsberg

Day 26...ish

Roof timbers almost finished....not enough T+G to finish it off !
When I initially ordered all the wood, I didn't account for the overhang at the eaves, and thats exactly how much I am short.
I am going to order in the morning, as there is a 4-5 day lead-time on treated timber....hoping I can get it delivered before they close down for xmas.

I am going to pick up the the felt, adhesive and the clout nails tomorrow and make a start at felting the 'finished' side of the roof.

:?: will I need a blow-lamp to heat the felt up to bend it around the eaves etc?




 

 

 




I am a long way behind schedule due to lots of work commitments recently, but I still think I can get the structure waterproof before the really bad weather comes along  

Hopefully next pictures will be of a fully felted roof, and then I can start the decking area at the front.

Carlsberg


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## Shultzy

carlsberg, you need to fill that space in the apex before you put the felt on. I lay a 2ft strip of thinner felt over the apex before I put the thicker felt on. You can use a blowlamp or a heatgun but its not necessary unless its very thick felt. Let it fall over the eaves and then warm underneath till its pliable. Be careful you won't need a lot of heat.


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## carlsberg

Back on track with the never-ending project 

The roof T+G deck is completely finished, and one half has been covered in felt...waiting for the wind to die down before felting the other half. I have just used an underfelt, which I am sure will last until summer when i intend to put on fibreglass shingles.

I am currently making window frames from the excess 4x2 left over.
The timber is 'scant' timber, but i reckon it has a better finish than most PAR i have bought in the past.

I have started to make the two front windows, as they are non-opening. I am probably going to make just a frame, and once the glass is fitted, stick a horizontal and vertical piece of timber on to divide up the window into 4.




 Timber is cut to size on mitre saw with 45deg mitre on each end.
I then decided to copy the festool domino joint, but on the cheap and using homemade plywood dominos.
I did this as opposed to through-splines to make the joint more waterproof. However these front 2 windows are under the cover of the large front roof overhang.



 


I have made a large frame bonded to some chipboard, which is very accurate in 'square' . I did this as in the past, everytime I clamped something to glue, it never ends up true and square... :roll: I always measured the diagonals, and they were never equal...I found it very hard to make them equal :evil: 

I used 30min polyurethane glue as it is supposed to fill gaps...there were plenty of gaps in my roughly done 'domino' holes.
I soaked the plywood in water, applied the glue to the joints, assembled the frame and clamped into the frame to keep it square.

5 mins later there was lots of glue foaming out, so I decided to remove from the large frame, and clamp up standalone as I didn't want it sticking to the frame with all the foaming glue.



I measured the diagonals, and they were not equal, and I couldn't make them equal........again!!! ( maybe I need more clamps!)

I then scraped off all the foaming glue and reclamped it back in the homemade frame.





A couple of hours later, I managed to prize the window frame from the clamping frame ( only taking a thin sliver of chipboard with me.)
Its diagonals were spot on, but took me another 15 mins to slice off more of solid foam that had come out of the joints. I am impressed with the results so far, tomorrow I will give the frame a good sanding, and then attach the piece that the glass will butt up against ( as in the next photo.)




I am thinking that most double glazing units are 24mm thick ( according to google,) I just need to find out some standard sizes of glazing bead so I can work out how much of a rebate to make.

Total build time is now approx 29 days.

I had to spend more money on T+G, roof felt and a bit more LogLap to be sure I have enough. I also bought 60m of roof felt, galv clout nails, and some external door frames.
The grand total is now a whopping budget-busting £2734.71 While this may seem a lot of money, my friend has spent a similar amount to go to Australia and watch The Ashes - he hasn't had half the fun I have :lol: 

Next thing on the shopping list are some 80mm long screws to attach window frames and door frames.

Carlsberg


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## carlsberg

30 day update......

The window frames are still heavily under construction, but the decking has been 'nearly' finished  

Got a quote for the DG units for the windows, they advised me to go for a unit consisting of a 4mm pane and a 6mm pane of glass.
They tell me this is better for sound proofing as the different thickness of glass resonate at different frequencies which blocks more sound. (They also said fit 6mm pane on the outer.)
They will also make the gap between the panes any distance I want, cost for all 4 windows approx £80. I will order when the frames are complete.



 

 

 



I need a day with no wind/rain so I can felt the other side of the roof, Saturday is looking promising.
The felt I have done has developed ripples, but I am not concerned as I intend to eventually use shingles on the roof.

The costs have increased by the £6 I spent on some 100mm screws for the door/window frames and some more Galv nails to assemble the decking subframe.
I also managed to buy a set of exterior french doors for £30 and also some yacht varnish for the doors and windows.

Total is now £2776.71

Carlsberg


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## Fecn

I do enjoy your workshop build thread  You keep me plotting and scheming for the expansion of my own.

Thanks for posting an update 

Fecn


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## mel

looking very good carlsberg 
good work !!!!


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## PowerTool

Nice to see an update,looking forward to seeing it all finished.

And think you've got a good deal on the windows.

Andrew


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## mailee

Yep, I am well impressed Carlsberg. It certainly is looking the part now isn't it?


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## cant-weld-wood

very nice i must say if mine comes out like that id be very happy
keep up the good work 


ps is the canoe there for the return back to the house if the rain gets to much


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## carlsberg

Day 32 update.

I managed to get the roof underfelt finished 3 weeks ago, and amazingly it survived the storm.
I have also fitted both front window frames, I have not started making the 2 side window frames yet.


 




Then I started on making the door frame. This was easy except that I needed to cut half an inch or so off the height of the hardwood doorstep. This was really tough going, my jigsaw didn't touch it as it was too deep. In the end I used a very sharp handsaw and that took about 30 mins ( with rests  ) I used the vice on the mortiser i recently purchased to hold the doorstep. I think it is mahogany - it has been in my fathers garage for 10+ years and was really tough to cut.



 



Tomorrow I will hopefully screw the doorframe solidly to the structure, and fit the glass in the front windows. Maybe I will make a start on the 2 side window frames.


 




Money spent this time is £13 on beading, pins and silicone.
Also £63 for the 2 front windows. These are DG units consisting of a 4mm pane, then 16mm airgap and then 6.4mm laminated. This is what was recommended by the glazing company to be strong and reduce noise.
Grand total now £2,852.71

:?: Anyone know any cheap suppliers of fibreglass shingles in the NorthWest? Cheapest I have found is Wickes at £15.99 a pack.


Carlsberg


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## mailee

That is really looking good Carlsberg. I should imagine you will be pleased to see it finished and get in there with some projects. Nice work mate. :wink:


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## carlsberg

Update....day ????????? no idea, i have done lots of hours though 

Doors hung using 3 Stainless bearing hinges. 6 hinges cost me £14.61




Most of the wall insulation now complete, i got 6 rolls of this 100mil insulation for £10 per roll.




On the front wall, i decided to add an extra layer to aid in noise insulation, as this part faces the houses. I added a layer of 3/4 ply which is screwed on 5mm battens over the insulation/dpc. I don't know wether it will do any good, but i had the ply lying around.





Soffit area covered over using loglap, leaving a 50mm gap to allow airflow in-between roof deck and insulation. I have got some soffit vent mesh that i am going to fix over the gap to stop insects and birds etc.
Also one of the opening windows has been fitted.




I decided to clad the inside walls with plasterboard in the interim. It wasn't expensive, and will allow me to use the building and clad it with a nice interior wood at a later date.



I also bought 25mm some foil faced rigid insulation boards, that i have put between the rafters, leaving a 50mm airgap above them between the roof deck.as the rafters are 6 inches, this leaves me 75mm, which i'm going to put the 100mill insulation into. This should really help to keep the heat from escaping out of the roof, and probably overkill. ( squeezing 100mil insulation into a 75mm gap reduces the insulation value, but the 25mm insulation board will help here.)


Here is the back of the building, with the soffits covered over. I did it this way to use up all the offcuts i had.




Bargeboards are now fitted front and rear, i made a template and drew the pattern onto the timber before using a jigsaw to cut it out. The gap at the front was because the ridge beam stuck out a little. I intend to make a nice large 'sunbeam' shaped finial to cover this over.
Front windows also fitted, they do not open.




Costs now at £3419.29.
Recent spends were....
dpc+window cills £55.68
6 hinges £14.61
fibreglass 6 rolls £60.00
10 8x4 25mm rigid insulation £126.00
wood+plasterboard £186.97
2 side windows( 4mm+6.4mm lam) £78.00
galv wire mesh, insect mesh, skirt board £45.32

Pictures are out of date, more work completed than shown.

I will update soon, i'm on the downward slope to completion now.

Carlsberg


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## ByronBlack

Looking superb carlsberg, probably the best... nah I won't go down that cliche!

Wouldn't look out of place in some woodland clearing, very smart!


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## Chris Knight

This is a great thread with a great looking result to show for it - super to have the cumulative build costs too - very informative.


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## Sandy

Well, that looks absolutely superb.

Are you sure that it's a workshop though. It looks good enough to live in!! Having said that, if I'd spent that much on a workshop the wife would be expecting to live in it........ in fact.....what a good idea. How much did it cost again??? Whatever it was I'm sure it's worth it.

Sandy.


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## CABBY

Come back and let us know it's finished :roll: Great to see in detail


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## Gary S

When you're finished do you fancy making me one?! :lol: 

It's looking awesome, you've worked very hard (and not JUST on convincing SWMBO that it was a good idea...)


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## carlsberg

Hello,
Thankyou for the PMs, gave me the motivation to update this post, i wish you could drag & drop pictures onto the post :? 

Ok, I have done plenty more hours on the build, and spent a little more money...here goes.

All the wall insulation and roof insulation was finished off, then covered with the DPM. This was very time consuming, especially putting the fibreglass inbetween the rafters. I then taped all the seems of the DPC to make a vapour-tight seal.

I then decided I would fit the interior wood cladding, with all the bad weather we have had..i wanted to stay dry 8)
I used B&Q el-cheapo thin cladding for the ceiling, and used a higher quality/thicker cladding for the walls - purchased from a local wood yard.



 

 




 

 



I attached the ceiling cladding with panel pins.
I used screws on the wall cladding, through the plasterboard, into the horizontal noggings. This involved me marking out the walls and using a spirit level to get all the screws running true a uniform.
The result is very pleasing to the eye with all the screws being level, and it will allow me to easily locate where 'solid-wood' is when i need to attach things to the walls at a later date.

I have made a start on building the front step, up onto the decking, ill post these pictures when i make more progress.

Ok, onto the spiraling costs..
Total spent to date now stands at £3753.85
new spends are..
ceiling cladding and pins	£101.00
2 sterling boards £21.00
gable cladding £111.04
side cladding £101.52

I need 4 more packs of cladding to finish the interior, then i will concentrate on totally completing the exterior, ready for the shingles to go on.

:?: Can anyone recommend a matt clear varnish that i can coat the internal walls with? This will stop the wood getting grubby. I dont want the wood to turn yellow, otherwise i will leave untreated.

Thanks for reading,

Carlsberg


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## Shultzy

Carlsberg, I tend to use Ronseal polyurethane varnish. Its available in matt or satin at about £12 - £13 and is easily thinned.


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## mailee

Tha t is looking great Carlsberg. I did wonder how you were getting on with it as there hasn't been any posts of late. No wonder with all the work you have been putting in. Has it gone much over your budget as I notice they are getting pretty high now? Keep up the good work. :wink:


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## mel

hows it coming on carlsberg ???? 
you must have moved in by now :lol:


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