# Best Abrasive



## inaspin (14 Jun 2012)

Hi 
For a while now i have been using abranet for my wood turning and i am not sure that i am getting the best results from it. In fact a few times i have found myself saying it was ok before i started sanding ( yes talking to myself a lonely life woodturning).

I have googled abrasives and of course every manufacturer is offering the best option and its all getting a bit mind blowing, so i was wondering what experiences you guys have had and basically what abrasive you could not live without.

It is expensive stuff now and i can't afford to keep buying until i find the best one, hope you don't think this is a bit of a cheek and any advise will be gratefully received.

Also the name of a reasonably good priced supplier would be good.

Regards
Berns


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## gus3049 (14 Jun 2012)

inaspin":2c1msc04 said:


> Hi
> For a while now i have been using abranet for my wood turning and i am not sure that i am getting the best results from it. In fact a few times i have found myself saying it was ok before i started sanding ( yes talking to myself a lonely life woodturning).
> 
> I have googled abrasives and of course every manufacturer is offering the best option and its all getting a bit mind blowing, so i was wondering what experiences you guys have had and basically what abrasive you could not live without.
> ...



Richard at the Turner's Workshop.

http://www.turnersworkshop.co.uk/woodturnersupplies.html#Abrasive

Rhyno abrasive. Best stuff I have ever used. Its worth it for me to order from France. Richard is efficient and fair on postage and I recommend you order from him.


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## boysie39 (14 Jun 2012)

+1 for richard.


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## monkeybiter (14 Jun 2012)

What width are those Rhyno-Grip strips?


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## Jonzjob (14 Jun 2012)

4 1/2" and I too have been very satisfied with Richards service and Rhynogrip. It's fluffy backed so can be cut to make power sanding pads too.


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## paulm (14 Jun 2012)

I used to use standard blue J flex from Aximinster which is very good, but tried abranet for a while to see how that was. 

Once I've finished the abranet I've already got I won't be getting any more. I find it too stiff and inflexible in the coarser grits and just generally don't feel comfortable with it, annoying to store too as it sticks to other bits and springs out of the plastic storage drawers. 

I've got some of Richard's Rhyno stuff to try next and while I haven't used much of it yet first impressions are good with regard to flexibility and the cushioned back will be helpful too, especially for punching out circles for power sanding.

Cheers, Paul


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## CHJ (14 Jun 2012)

There are or were two abrasive brands that I found most effective for my needs.

1. The Original Red Ryno brand Plain and Grip backed versions, I still have some left on my rolls in some grades, produces a sweet stream of dust with minimum pressure. I believe Richard has said that current versions of Red are not as good, I don't know until I try and procure some more.

2. VSM Vitex cloth , same as used on the Grip-A-Disc system.

The current White Ryno I find cuts very well but for the type of use I put it to it degrades very quickly, the increased flexibility is useful for some tasks but I find that it is very much a use once and throw away because the grit strips off the backing if handled roughly, not an altogether bad attribute for sanding if you are a purist but an expensive one.
Also in the smaller sizes as cut and used on a 50mm arbour the backing/felt interface is not up to holding it on the arbour in 80 grit because of the loads applied.

And Yes I do need that 80grit it's the tool with the least chatter associated when probing around inside my little boxes.

Abranet, I used quite a lot at first flush of discovery but it now just resides as a pick up when needed just like the Nyweb pads, can't define when the 'when' is, it just happens sometimes as appearing to be the best option.

I still have quite a stock of Blue Hermes J-Flex in various grades (courtesy of a Mark Hancock sell off).
Very robust and long lived from a backing and abrasive retention point of view but not quite as sharp as the Red Ryno. It has it's uses.

All are an expensive facet of turning if you are not too good on the tool control or play with wild woods, I'm fortunate in being in the position to splash out on bulk purchases from time to time which trims a bit off the totals over time.


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## gus3049 (14 Jun 2012)

CHJ":xuws1n8c said:


> Also in the smaller sizes as cut and used on a 50mm arbour the backing/felt interface is not up to holding it on the arbour in 80 grit because of the loads applied.
> 
> And Yes I do need that 80grit it's the tool with the least chatter associated when probing around inside my little boxes.



I'm definitely into wild woods (Wind in the Willows is my favourite book!!!)

I use the 80 grit all the time at the moment as I have a load of wood that has been left out too long and is orf dear. But..... whilst I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with Chas on any woodturning subject, I have to say that I have never had the white Rhyno come off the arbour unless I get a hard catch on an edge or similar. I mostly use a cordless drill but have used a big old mains Bosch on occasion and the paper stood up to all the abuse I could throw at it. I use a Hope arbour.

Maybe I need to develop some muscle. :?


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## CHJ (14 Jun 2012)

gus3049":3j26leda said:


> .......Maybe I need to develop some muscle. :?



It's not due to applying a lot of pressure through use of muscle Gordon, I try to use the lowest pressure possible when sanding, had too many close calls with yew and the like when I first started to know not to add too much friction to the mix.

Perhaps it's the particular roll sample of 80 I have, it won't stay on the 50mm heads (Hope?) from Richard, does better on the 75mm but they won't go in some of my boxes.

Get some better results using it (80g) on a no-brand head with finer hooks, the other grades are fine.

Was interested to try it and see if it would cut the costs, but will basically stick to the Grip-A-Discs as my go to work horse.

Was a great advocate of friction driven rotary sanding, and still use it at times but recently I spend a lot more time using a small low volt, low speed drill (ex 9.6V bosh battery driven) from a mains power source.
Much more controllable, better for the abrasive with reduced heat, better cutting and minimal dust propagation.


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## myturn (14 Jun 2012)

I can recommend Colour Grit, it comes in 300mm widths that are easily torn into 100mm strips by hand and you can order either a 500mm length or save a few pounds and buy a 2metre roll.

I use this all the time for grades up to 400 and then Abranet 600,800,1000 if I want to go finer.

http://www.philirons.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=77


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## nev (14 Jun 2012)

another vote for the rhyno stuff from Richard. (Try the 7 quid mixed pack). far superior to anything else I've tried.


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## Jensmith (14 Jun 2012)

+1 for Richards Rhyno abrasive. Last ages, flexible, not as harsh as others so it sands rather than scrapes. I use it for more than just woodturning and can't fault it.


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## inaspin (15 Jun 2012)

Hi 

May i say a big thank you to everyone for taking the time and trouble to reply to my post, i will be ordering some Ryno grip from Richard today it certainly seems to come highly reccomended.

Once again thank you

Regards
Berns


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## boysie39 (15 Jun 2012)

Jensmith":3ids4rf3 said:


> +1 for Richards Rhyno abrasive. Last ages, flexible, not as harsh as others so it sands rather than scrapes. I use it for more than just woodturning and can't fault it.



Jeezs Jen ,and it doesnt hurt ,thats really good . :lol: :lol:


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## tekno.mage (15 Jun 2012)

I mainly use RhynoRed as I find it lasts longer than the white Rhyno abrasive from Richard - the white is more flexible in the coarser grits, though which is useful for sanding things with lots of intricate bits. I also use Abranet and have not found it gives a worse surface than the Rhyno type abrasives, but I have found it sheds bits of grit more which means you need to be scrupulous in removing sanding dust and residue between grits to avoid scratches.

If you think your turnings look better before sanding maybe it's something to do with your sanding technique rather than the abrasives you use? In particular I've noticed that some woods look ok from the tool, but after sanding from 120 to 400 grit show up defects and tearout that were not so visible before. The solution to this problem is to make sure all the surface defects are removed with the coarsest grit - and don't be afraid to use 80 grit if required! It's better to start with a coarser grit than spend ages trying to remove defects with finer grits and end up over-heating the work. Also, don't press to hard when sanding, keep the paper moving all the time, and don't use worn-out abrasive.


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## Richard Findley (15 Jun 2012)

Thanks all for your comments regarding my abrasive.

Just to give the full story, I used to use and sell the red Rhynogrip but my supplier suddenly changed their trading terms and I can no longer buy it at a competetive rate. I approached the manufacturer who wouldn't supply the red to me but offered me the white, known as Plusline. After giving it a thorough test in the workshop I decided it was the way to go.

It doesn't last as long as the red but is around 40% cheaper, and it certainly doesn't last 40% less long! The main thing that won it over for me though was the flexibility, even at 80grit. For the type of detailed spindle work I do it is ideal. I also cut my own discs for bowl work too. 

As with everything I sell, I wouldn't sell it if I didn't use it myself, and I do, every day! 

Thanks again for your recommendatons, it's nice to know when I'm doing something right!

Cheers

Richard


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## CHJ (15 Jun 2012)

tekno.mage":36t5dj99 said:


> I mainly use RhynoRed as I find it lasts longer than the white Rhyno abrasive from Richard - the white is more flexible in the coarser grits, though which is useful for sanding things with lots of intricate bits. I also use Abranet and have not found it gives a worse surface than the Rhyno type abrasives, but I have found it sheds bits of grit more which means you need to be scrupulous in removing sanding dust and residue between grits to avoid scratches.
> 
> If you think your turnings look better before sanding maybe it's something to do with your sanding technique rather than the abrasives you use? In particular I've noticed that some woods look ok from the tool, but after sanding from 120 to 400 grit show up defects and tearout that were not so visible before. The solution to this problem is to make sure all the surface defects are removed with the coarsest grit - and don't be afraid to use 80 grit if required! It's better to start with a coarser grit than spend ages trying to remove defects with finer grits and end up over-heating the work. Also, don't press to hard when sanding, keep the paper moving all the time, and don't use worn-out abrasive.


Well put Kym, think you just about nailed it on the sanding front.


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## bogmonster (15 Jun 2012)

I will also give the Rhynogrip a try. I agree that the Abranet is too rigid and it does not last long - it works out quite expensive. Anyone know where I can get a punch for 50mm discs? I use the Simon Hope sanding pads and I am very pleased with them. Rather than cut circles with scissors I would rather punch out discs...had a quick scan and can't find anything...

Cheers, BM.

Actually had another look, is this what I need:


[url=http://www.powertooldirect.co...w.powertooldirect.co.uk/fprint ... 28375.html[/url]


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## paulm (15 Jun 2012)

Got mine from here http://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN5181599K

Noticed the one you linked to had been discontinued.

Gave it a bit of a hone on the outside edge and with the application of a small lump hammer (use a chopping board or waste wood underneath of course !), will cut through several layers of abrasives at once, brilliant and quite fun, I probably need to get out more :lol: 

Cheers, Paul


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## János (15 Jun 2012)

Hello,

Ask for resin bond, open or semi open coat abrasives, with flexible backing. Most manufacturers do make very similar products, with minor differences. Vitex, Mirka, Hermes, SIA... never mind. 

I use waterproof sandpaper, made for car finishing. In most cases I start sanding at P180. Then follows P240, P320, P400. I seldom go beyond that. Some steel wool (be careful, tthough: it is dangerous to use on a spinning lathe!), foam backed sanding mat, like MicroMesh, for polishing ebony. And a piece of old linen cloth in itself :wink: 

Have a nice day,

János


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## inaspin (15 Jun 2012)

Hi Kym

I totaly agree with what you have said and thankyou for the good advice, you may be correct when you say that the problem could be teknique although i do employ all the things that you have recommended.

That is why i asked the question, yes i do use 80 grit and follow through the grades sometimes down to 600 grit, but using the abronet i still seem to get scratches show through. I am not trying to say that i am not at fault and obviously you get along with it, but it does seem that i am not alone in my thoughts about abronet as a couple of other posts have said that they have or are going to stop using it.

It would be interesting to see if there is anyone out there that wants to champion it, it is not that i think that it is a bad product on the contrary i am sure that it has its place in woodwork/decorating and so forth, i just don't see it as quite up to the job for turning.

Regards

Berns


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## CHJ (15 Jun 2012)

Berns, one of the worst things with sanding is long scratches, whatever the grade.
These can be avoided to some extent by rapidly moving the cloth around.

But the best option is to use some form of rotary sanding where possible, either a friction driven disc tool or a disc pad in a slow hand drill.
The scratches will still be there but because they are very short and in a semi random pattern the eye/brain does not resolve them.

If the brain does not see them, then they ain't there.

I think most folks would be pushed to see any sanding scratches on my pieces and I rarely sand below 240 grit on most woods.
Be prepared, with the piece stationary, to hand sand any difficult patches with the grain.
Scratches are hidden by the grain lines.

My final abrading is done after sealing with buffing system


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## tekno.mage (15 Jun 2012)

Hi Berns,

I wonder if your scratches are caused by the grit-shedding (esp with the coarser grits) that I've noticed with abranet? 

I will champion it for a non-turning application, though - I use abranet disks on my orbital sander for flat woodworking - and it's great for that. Seems to last a long time, doesn't clog, no need to line up the holes for the dust extraction and it comes in a wide range of grits. Pity it's so expensive, though. 

I much prefer the Rhyno abrasives for turning use - no grit shedding with those and they are long lasting and come in sensible sizes (ie by the metre) - and the RhynoRed goes up to 1200 grit which is particularly useful for some of my high-end gallery quality boxes and turnings with epoxy inlays etc.

One thing abranet is good for in turning is wet sanding (ie sanding using a finishing oil as a lubricant to avoid heat-checking and also to grain fill with the oil/sanding dust slurry) it doesn't seem to clog as badly with the oil and it's easy to shake the abrasive clean if it does. The Rhyno abrasives don't seem to work quite as well for this - but the red one can be washed (I washed some after using it for wet sanding with oil and not wanting to throw away what was hardly used abrasive paper just because it was all sticky & oily). Hot water and fairy liqiud worked well, rinsed and left to dry overnight before re-use!


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## inaspin (16 Jun 2012)

Thanks again Chas & Kym

I have ordered the rhyno grit from richard as well as a rotary sanding pad, i must admit that i have not tried the wet sanding method but i will now that it has been suggested.

I am taking all your advice on board and appreciate you taking so much time in trying to resolve my problem.

With thanks

Berns


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## János (16 Jun 2012)

Hello,

In fact, Abranet has been developed for the car finishing trade. Its only real advantage against traditional sheet goods is reduced clogging and good dust collection. Productivity and workers' safety are prime concerns for large factories. As everything in this world, abrasives are the results of trade-offs between the different needs and requirements of certain applications and uses.

The needs of small shop handicrafts are very different from large scale industrial production, but the goods on offer have been developed with the latter in mind. So we, craftmen (either handyman, or journeyman) can't always get what we want or need...  That is, how the myths and illusions about "The Free Market" do end.

Have a nice day,

János


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## Chrisp (16 Jun 2012)

Another +1 for the Rhyno grits, ordered some from Richard on Thursday and it arrived today! feels great, only time will tell but I'm sure it will perform as well as described.
Regards Chris.


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## gus3049 (17 Jun 2012)

bogmonster":3i4hku99 said:


> I will also give the Rhynogrip a try. I agree that the Abranet is too rigid and it does not last long - it works out quite expensive. Anyone know where I can get a punch for 50mm discs? I use the Simon Hope sanding pads and I am very pleased with them. Rather than cut circles with scissors I would rather punch out discs...had a quick scan and can't find anything...
> 
> Cheers, BM.
> 
> ...



I don't bother! Just cut it into 50mm squares. The paper is flexible enough for the corners to bend up and in fact helps soften the impact of the edges of the arbour and avoids the marks they can cause. Fine details need doing by hand anyway.

I use the Rhyno with the Hope arbour and have no problems at all.


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## inaspin (17 Jun 2012)

That sounds encouraging Gordon i should get mine early part of next week, looking forward to trying it.

Berns


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