# Robert Sorby Cheese (Whoops! I mean chisels)



## AndyC (15 Jul 2005)

Hi everyone! Im a relative newbie to this game and have been perusing your site to help clue myself up (some invaluable info by the way!). I notice that a lot of people on this site have quite a low opinion of Robert Sorby chisels. 

This worry's me as ive just invested in a nice new set of bevel edged ones having been lead to believe that they were of a good quality, for western chisels (not too fond of japanese chisels that ive tried at the moment, but will probably realise in time what a fool ive been :!: ). Have i just made a a big, and decidedly expensive, mistake  :!: 

As an aside, my sharpening system will be, when bought next week, a coarse dmt bench whetstone (dont trust grinders), a 1200 grit king waterstone and an 8000 grit king. Does that sound a good setup? 

Am also getting a lapping plate and carborundum grits.

Sorry if im repeating stuff, but help and advice is appreciated


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## MikeW (15 Jul 2005)

Hey Andy,

I don't know about Sorby bench chisels. I own a set of Sorby paring chisels and sash mortice chisels. I think they are just fine.

The paring chisel edges rolled/chiped a little at first. This is not uncommon for any maker's chisels. Often it is due to the tempering process.

After a few sharpenings there was a difference. At that time I also increased the bevel angle a few degress and have absolutely no complaints.

The stones/sharpening components you list will do you fine. If you find you need something else to fit the way you work after some time, you can purchase it then.

Have fun.


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## Alf (16 Jul 2005)

Welcome to the forum, Andy.



AndyC":2qf2oabi said:


> I notice that a lot of people on this site have quite a low opinion of Robert Sorby chisels.
> 
> This worry's me as ive just invested in a nice new set of bevel edged ones having been lead to believe that they were of a good quality, for western chisels (not too fond of japanese chisels that ive tried at the moment, but will probably realise in time what a fool ive been :!: ). Have i just made a a big, and decidedly expensive, mistake  :!:


Depends. The thing with Sorbys, and what causes the differing opinions on them, is they're quality seems to be worryingly variable. So you may be lucky and have a good batch, in which case Huzzah. Or you may not. Or you may have some that are fine, and some less so. Do you tend to be naturally lucky, good at cards, toast lands butter side up, that sort of thing...? :-k



AndyC":2qf2oabi said:


> As an aside, my sharpening system will be, when bought next week, a coarse dmt bench whetstone (dont trust grinders), a 1200 grit king waterstone and an 8000 grit king. Does that sound a good setup?


Waterstones? I'll go now then... 8-[

Cheers, Alf


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## AndyC (16 Jul 2005)

Thanks for the replies! 

Well, ive just picked up the chisels today and first impressions (only on looks- not had a chance to sharpen yet) aint brilliant. The london pattern handles have bits of filler in them where there were knots and defects!!! Maybe I'm being a bit picky, but at 20 odd quid a pop i was kind of expetcting they'd use top quality materials :? Fettling of the blade is expected but surely they can provide decent set of handles :!: 

(.....probably being bit of a perfectionist, one of my many flaws!) 

Still, hopefully the business end will turn out to be from a good batch!


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## Scott (16 Jul 2005)

AndyC":1mv8na8e said:


> at 20 odd quid a pop i was kind of expetcting they'd use top quality materials :?



Too right they should be Andy! I wouldn't expect lumps of filler in the handles of 20-odd quid chisels either!


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## Mike B (16 Jul 2005)

FWIW I recently had a general chat to the guy at Classic Hand Tools and during the conversation he too seemed to suggest the Sorby chisels in favour of the Ashley Iles (which always get great recommendations here). When I suggested that I had heard that the quality could be variable, I was told that this usually only affected the larger sizes (> 1 inch or so) and was a common issue for most manufacturers...

Just another 2pence worth. Unfortunately I have no "hands on" experience of either so am unable to comment further...


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## AndyC (17 Jul 2005)

Well, another day, another look at the chisels and they dont get any better! I think they're gonna have to go back, dont want to have holes in the handles in a year or so's time when the filler dries and falls out!!!

Is this a reasonable reason for returning them or is this within "manufacturing tolerances" and something i should expect? I don't want to be brushed off by the shop or sorby! (The people at the shop seemed very nice and helpful though i should say)

I'm also thinking that perhaps a set of ashley or ray isles would be a better bet instead of replacement sorby's? I should be able to get a refund instead of replacements shouldn't I??? 

(I must remember this is a woodworking site not legal aid!!!  )

Or maybe some Lie-Nielsen's (are they really that much better to justify price?)


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## Alf (17 Jul 2005)

Personally I don't think handles filled with filler are exceptable, but I suppose it matters more what the shop think... Take a look at the ferrules too; I've had one split on me before now and they can't object to _that_ being returned as faulty. :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## trevtheturner (17 Jul 2005)

Welcome to the Forum, Andy.

I think the quality of the chisels should be commensurate with the price you paid for them. You said firstly that you had invested in the set, then later that you had just picked them up. If I am reading this correctly, does this mean that you paid for them before they were delivered, and you subsequently received goods of lesser quality than was reasonable and expected? In any case, if they were described as having solid wood handles and you received a mixture of wood/filler, you did not get what you reasonably expected. In this event, i.e. that the goods were mis-described, you are certainly entitled to a refund, under the Sale of Goods Act, from your supplier. Remember, the contract is between you and your supplier - nothing to do with Sorby (that's just where your supplier gets them from).

However, if your supplier is of the helpful kind, and you do need a set of chisels, could he supply you with an alternative, more suitable, set, with price adjustment either way? Might be the way to go so that you end up happy and the retailer keeps a customer. :wink: FWIW.

Good luck.

Cheers,

Trev.


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## AndyC (17 Jul 2005)

Hi

I'd ordered the chisels, then paid for and picked them up yesterday. However i didnt notice the lumps of filler in the handles in the poor lighting, plus i was paying more attention to the busines end! Prob. a bit my fault aswell, but i dont think thats an excuse.

They only stock sorby chisels! But i don't fancy playing russian rulette with an issue as important as steel quality and have little confidence i won't get another dodgy set of handles (this wasn't one handle, but in 5 out of 6) so am reluctant to take replacement sorby's.

Not sure how to play this one, Just hope they're understanding i guess!

Thanks for the advice by the way trev, you a lawyer? :wink:


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## trevtheturner (18 Jul 2005)

You really should have no problem here, Andy. Go get your money back.

There certainly is no fault on your part here. Start off nicely by explaining that when you got home and had the opportunity to inspect all of them properly you found that they were not up to quality and that wooden handles full of filler are unsatisfactory (what is going to happen if/when you start to use a mallet on them? Filler falling out and handles splitting probably. You could even lay it on a bit - danger of injury to your hands from splitting handles, for example). Ask for a full refund. If the supplier is not amenable and tries to blame Robert Sorby, at this point you remind him that the contract is between you and him and under the Sale of Goods Act he, and only he, is liable for what he supplied to you. (What he chooses to do about the quality of goods he obtains from Sorby is a different issue altogether, and a matter for him to sort out with Sorby). My catalogue shows Sorby bevel-edged chisels with either boxwood or rosewood handles - neither of these woods of decent quality would need any filler at all. For the price you paid you are entitled to good quality.

Either way, you should be given a full refund so you can go and buy some decent chisels elsewhere.

Don't leave the chisels with him (e.g. "for further examination, sir") without receiving a full refund. If he won't play ball make sure you take them away with you as there are then other courses of action you can pursue. If he is reputable he will know where he stands and, when he sees that you know what you are talking about, you will get your refund.
If he doesn't know where he stands, you'll have to educate him! You could print off a copy of a 'fact sheet' from a Sale of Goods website and tuck it in your pocket, to support you if need be.

:shock: No, I'm not a lawyer, Andy (which probably explains why I'm not rich  ). Just somebody who needed the Sale of Goods Act to resolve a problem in the past, so I studied it so I knew what I was talking about. It stood me in good stead then, and a couple of times since. I have found that sometimes a retailer will try to pull the wool over your eyes - until it clicks with them that you really do know exactly what your rights are, at which point the problem is invariably quickly resolved. (It's always best to remain calm and confident - but then I'm sure you are :wink: - and it can help to go back into the shop when they are busy, when usually they will want to resolve a problem a.s.a.p. Been there, done that to good effect!).

Good luck.

Trev.


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## AndyC (18 Jul 2005)

Well, turns out i needn't of worried. The people at workshop supplies were great! They hadn't noticed the filler, and when i pointed it out, they were not in the least bit resistant to giving me a refund when i told them i had lost confidence in the quality of tool i would recieve from sorby. Indeed they werent best pleased with sorby either and rang them up whilst i was there to get some answers!

Must have been the day for admitting fault because sorby were also full of apologies!! 

Don't know about you, but this makes me think that there are still a few good, honest people out there who dont just want to screw you for your money! I'll definately be taking my business back there!  

Now then, what chisels to buy? Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!!


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## trevtheturner (18 Jul 2005)

Hi Andy,

Pleased to hear you have had the right result, and that you have a decent firm to deal with. In my experience, most firms are fine if approached in the right way. Occasionally one is not and, of course, that's when it is useful to know your ground. :wink: 

Sorry I can't help you with your new choice, but I'm sure a few will be along shortly to help you.

Cheers,

Trev.


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## Alf (19 Jul 2005)

Andy,

Good result indeed, and excellent that some retailers and manufacturers realise the value of apologising.  So what to get instead. Well did you like the London pattern handles? If so, maybe take a look at Ray Iles' set? 






> ET032 Set of 8 B.E. chisels with matching London Pattern boxwood handles 1/8" to 1" Chisels made by ourselves. Came out top in Great British Chisel Test in F & C Mag. £99.00
> 
> ET033 Set of 10 B.E. chisels with matching London Pattern boxwood handles 1/8" to 1.1/2 " Chisels made by ourselves. Came out top in Great British Chisel Test n F & C Mag. £129.00



I've not tried them myself mind you, but the L-N's I like may be more than you're willing to pay. Heck they were more than _I_ was willing to pay, but I was hooked and in the creel before I realised the danger. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## AndyC (19 Jul 2005)

Mmm! They is some nice lookin chisels!!!

Have to say that i've already got in contact with AI for a catalogue! I do kind of like the look of those bubinga handles though. Think that the LN's are a bit steep and am wary of the cost of adding to the set at a later date. But they sound soooo good!

Aaaagh! Like a kid in toys r us told to pick one toy!!!!!!! 

:? :? :? :? :?


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## Anonymous (20 Jul 2005)

AndyC":3dq708fz said:


> Now then, what chisels to buy? Decisions, decisions, decisions!!!!



Glad it all worked oiut Andy

I have a set of 8 Ashley Ilse chisles and they are absolutely wonderful. Needed a fair bit of flattening but great once done.

They come with a lifetime guarantee and a guarantee on the handels- if the handle splits in the first 2 years, then they are replaced free of charge. After that, they will replace the handles for £5 if required

Also, they say that if you are unhappy with the grind on the chisels in any way, they will re-grind free of charge to your requirement!!!

This is the way a company SHOULD do business, but so few actually do.

I put a review and photos on here if you do a search


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## Les Mahon (20 Jul 2005)

I can't vouch for Ashley Isles chisels, but I have a number of their carving gouges and they are excellent.

I also heard a story of a carver whose workshop burnt down, he recovered the carving gouges from the ashes, and sent the sorry looking lot back to Ashley Isles who cleaned and reground the lot, and fitted handles and only charged for the handles, they considered it part of the lifetime re-grind policy! Now that really is service.

Les


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## ike (20 Jul 2005)

I also rate AI chisels. Although mine were assembled with a faulty batch of hard ferrules (bought in item) which split over the winter, AI reworked my complete set and returned them in just 24 hours (with a extra 1" butt chisel as a goodwill gesture and to cover my postage cost)! 

Very good tools, with old fashioned service from a small family owned company - can't ask for much more IMO.

Ike


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