# Workbench tops what material HDF?? MDF Ply



## tradesman

Morning all,

great site - continuing my journey into semi retirement I really like the look of this chaps workbench and how he constructed it.

Now I go to you lot and see what you think.

Design looks great and I like the way its assembled with ply - should be super stable

the top looks perfect what my projects ( i think the front apron might be a step to far )

In your opinion he recommends HDF - which I cant seem to find a supplier of.

1 - would you use HDF - 

2 - or perhaps buy a predrilled top ( a festool clone for example is available for about 50quid )

3- or would another material do such as MDF - would you treat it? or birch ply - would the 20mm dogs hold up?

Cheers a always

he is here building his bench


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## Droogs

Dennis has made a great bench based around his way of working wood. It is ideally suited to machine and modern tooling use. you can get HDF here in UK






3mm 1 Side 0300BL HDFBLACK0300 | Lawcris


Decorative panel products, melamine, laminate, worktops, solid surface worktops, edging, acrylic, mdf, chipboard, plywood, flooring, pinboard, fixtures and fittings. Get free samples & order before 6pm for next day delivery.




www.lawcris.co.uk





hth


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## DBT85

18mm MDF or hardwood/birch ply will be absolutely fine and the dogs will be fine too.

You could buy a pre drilled MFT replacement (I did) or you can contact one of them and they'll make you one to whatever size and hole pattern you want. They just load it into the CNC and let it get in with it. Personally I don;t think I would bother doing it myself as you only need to make one mistake and the whole lot could be out of square which is the whole point.

I love that coloured stuff he uses but I assumed it was Valchromat MDF or simlar, not HDF.

He has a great channel in general I have to say.


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## Droogs

as DBT85 says he probably used this stuff






19mm Black throughout MDFBT1900 | Lawcris


Decorative panel products, melamine, laminate, worktops, solid surface worktops, edging, acrylic, mdf, chipboard, plywood, flooring, pinboard, fixtures and fittings. Get free samples & order before 6pm for next day delivery.




www.lawcris.co.uk


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## Paul Narramore

Is it me but that work bench looks way way too over complicated. When we moved to our new house two years ago I built my work bench from a large offcut of kitchen worktop and the legs of square timber. To this I’ve bolted a heavy engineers vice, a woodworking vice, and an industrial pillar drill. It’s tough as old boots and very stable, and will see me out. Why over complicate life?


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## tradesman

It is over complicated but really pretty !!!

most things Scandinavian are !!!

I think Ill buy the predrilled birch ply top and apply the supports like dennis _ I wont bother with the front section for now - I guess its easier enough to add later

thanks guys


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## Droogs

Remember Dennis built and uses this bench for modern machine tool working. It is made specifically to fit the various tools he has such as the incra systems and router lift he uses. He has a separate bench he uses for any planing he does.


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## Paul Narramore

My benches have also exclusively been built as I have an interest in motorcycles and cars so clearly have different needs to those who want 'prettiness' in their workshop. I have neither the interest nor the space for lots of elaborate workworking machinery, and if I did, where would my three motorcycles and engineering lathe go?


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## clogs

if u build a bench, one way or another you'll need /want to store stuff under it....
better doing it first off....
to cut cost and to make life easier why not buy a kitch/bedroom drawer unit and build the bench around that...
easy enough to stiffen the drawer bottoms......even find a used one.....??
personally I think Trademans bench is pretty simple and no where big enough but he made it for his personal situation.....


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## clogs

keep the bikes in the front room.....warm n dry.....hahaha


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## DBT85

Paul Narramore said:


> My benches have also exclusively been built as I have an interest in motorcycles and cars so clearly have different needs to those who want 'prettiness' in their workshop. I have neither the interest nor the space for lots of elaborate workworking machinery, and if I did, where would my three motorcycles and engineering lathe go?



The dude that made the "pretty" bench would probably say that your 3 motorcycles are unesssasary. Or maybe he wouldn't judge what others put in their own space for their own needs quite as harshly as you seem to have done.


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## mikej460

Horses for courses. I think there are people who get considerable enjoyment designing, building and improving their workshop; it is a part of their woodworking hobby, just like those who use mostly hand tools or like Dennis use machines, or better still, both. I spent a damp afternoon today watching his videos for the first time and really enjoyed them and appreciated his design skills just as much as his machining skills. 
I am planning to build his bench to replace the tatty but solid as a rock school woodworking bench I bought at an auction 15 years ago, and I will convert the old bench to hold my engineer vice and bench grinder and put it in my toolshed. I see Dennis's bench as a modern version of a traditional Roubo Bench (way beyond my budget) with the dog holes in the centre sliding side. Benchcrafted. 
But before I start to set my heart on it I asked for a quote from Lawcris for a 2440mm x 1220mm x 19mm sheet of black throughout MDF and they quoted £35.37 per sheet + VAT but I'll have to collect from Leeds as their minimum order for delivery is £250. I'm going to reply and ask if they can CNC the holes as DBT85 has had done.


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## DBT85

mikej460 said:


> Horses for courses. I think there are people who get considerable enjoyment designing, building and improving their workshop; it is a part of their woodworking hobby, just like those who use mostly hand tools or like Dennis use machines, or better still, both. I spent a damp afternoon today watching his videos for the first time and really enjoyed them and appreciated his design skills just as much as his machining skills.
> I am planning to build his bench to replace the tatty but solid as a rock school woodworking bench I bought at an auction 15 years ago, and I will convert the old bench to hold my engineer vice and bench grinder and put it in my toolshed. I see Dennis's bench as a modern version of a traditional Roubo Bench (way beyond my budget) with the dog holes in the centre sliding side. Benchcrafted.
> But before I start to set my heart on it I asked for a quote from Lawcris for a 2440mm x 1220mm x 19mm sheet of black throughout MDF and they quoted £35.37 per sheet + VAT but I'll have to collect from Leeds as their minimum order for delivery is £250. I'm going to reply and ask if they can CNC the holes as DBT85 has had done.



Mine was just a MFT replacement top to the standard sizes, about £40? Nothing custom about it, but there are plenty of places that will do custom orders to the sizes you want and don't have those kind of minimum orders.


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## mikej460

Thanks for the tip, I'm just passing far too many wet days looking on the internet, researching and saving useful ideas but I need to come back to reality as I have the workshop to build first!


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## Spectric

That bench by Denis is great but add some dovetails.


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## Jameshow

Hi 

I'm supprised no one has mentioned MDO or buffalo board a resin paper lined board usually ply which is used for signs, and trailer decks. 
Very tough and hard wearing. 

I had a table saw made out of it for a number of years. 

Cheers James


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## robgul

I bought an MDF MFT top from one of the CNC suppliers .... wish I'd paid the extra £10 for the plywood version - the holes in the MDF are susceptible to cold and get slightly smaller as the material expands (my workshop isn't damp, just a bit cold) - I've sorted the dog fit by some very gentle reaming of the top edges of the dog-holes.

The coming week's tasks involve insulation and plasterboard for the ceiling of the workshop!


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## Ollie78

Birch ply is what I use on my mft top, its cheaper than the "official " tops and lighter.
I personally think the price of Valchromat to be ridiculous for what it is. If you are paying vachromat money what about HDPE or that plastic laminated ply for kids playgrounds? 

Ollie


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## pe2dave

Learning from other threads /sites:
If hand tool use (hammer and chisel etc), I would be suspicious of an MFT thickness top, more so if a decent vice was in use?
If machine use majority, then MFT class of top seems appropriate, though I'd address winter damp -what happens to MDF
after a winter of damp?

If an old fashioned heavy bench for general use, 4x2 on edge seems most appropriate. Ask youtube about Paul Sellers workbench.
He even has one in ply! They are solid and will take a lifetimes use (and ...)


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## Roseland 2

I think MDF and HDF are quite suceptible to moisture, and moisture cycling causes the worktop to sag. I used to have to turn my standard MFT top over every year.

Ply won't sag, but I think the surface is relatively soft. I believe the best solution is a moisture-resistant MDF, like Valchromat. I bought one of the Axminster Valchromat tops a few years back and it is still absolutely flat.

Andrew


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## Knotty Norm

It is a case horses for courses I imagine, but I do consider this to be one of the most beautiful benches around - and great for the 'modern' machine woodworker.


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## tradesman

Hi - yes this is awood only workbench - no bikes I suspect.

I have a compromise - 1 end MFT birch ply - but im now stuck ona reasonable priced router solution - these are going £150 to £350. All I want to do is be able to access the bit and raise and lower from the top - any ideas. My small shop i will build a rough assembly area along one wall where i have the cross cut ( on wheels of course ) all the same height ( great idea ). the mft for chisel planing and fine work

does this sound sensible?? I think the router on the end is a great idea


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## Ollie78

Roseland 2 said:


> I used to have to turn my standard MFT top over every year.



I don`t think I ever had one last more than about 3 months per side. But I treat it as sacrificial for on site work. 
For a workshop solution I guess budget is less of a worry.

Ollie


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## pe2dave

Has no one come up with a sacrificial solution? Perhaps not for site work, but for the home workshop?
I was thinking of embedded 3|3mm beading.
Wondering why the 3mm ‘dogs’ don’t solve this issue?


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## Ollie78

tradesman said:


> but im now stuck ona reasonable priced router solution - these are going £150 to £350. All I want to do is be able to access the bit and raise and lower from the top - any ideas.



Try this Premium Router Lift & Motor | Next Day Delivery
I have the older version, its pretty good value and easy to adjust with the side handle.

Ollie


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## DBT85

pe2dave said:


> Has no one come up with a sacrificial solution? Perhaps not for site work, but for the home workshop?
> I was thinking of embedded 3|3mm beading.
> Wondering why the 3mm ‘dogs’ don’t solve this issue?


It all depends how careful you are setting the depth of your blade. If you put 3mm protectors on but set the depth overly deep you'll still mark it.

I know @petermillard routes a groove in his to put some sacrificial 6mm MRMDF that can be replaced. I just moved my top over to the left by 150mm and used regular MRMDF for that last 150mm of the bench. That does nothing for the cuts along the length of the top though.

At the end of the day any work bench is a workbench, It's going to get dinged. Build it, make it look pretty and then take a chunk out of it so that it's done and out of the way.

As you said earlier in the thread, if you want to wail away with hammers and chisels an MDF topped bench like these will work but you'll probably soon wish you'd build something with a bit more backbone. If you are using mostly power tools then a top like this is fantastic.


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## Spectric

Hi all

Just a thought earlier in the day, has anyone looked at what they use to make the panels for the delivery vans and BT wagons? It is laminated and must be reasonably durable so anyone know of firms that build panel vans and the like onto chassis cabs could forward more info. Also you get these vans in salvage yards so the potential for cheap sheets of decent material.


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## mg123

mikej460 said:


> Thanks for the tip, I'm just passing far too many wet days looking on the internet, researching and saving useful ideas but I need to come back to reality as I have the workshop to build first!


I'm in the same situation, too much procrastination. The Internet, and in particular for me, YouTube, offers far too much content, ideas and designs that constantly change my plans.


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## petermillard

DBT85 said:


> It all depends how careful you are setting the depth of your blade. If you put 3mm protectors on but set the depth overly deep you'll still mark it.
> 
> I know @petermillard routes a groove in his to put some sacrificial 6mm MRMDF that can be replaced. I just moved my top over to the left by 150mm and used regular MRMDF for that last 150mm of the bench. That does nothing for the cuts along the length of the top though.
> 
> At the end of the day any work bench is a workbench, It's going to get dinged. Build it, make it look pretty and then take a chunk out of it so that it's done and out of the way.
> 
> As you said earlier in the thread, if you want to wail away with hammers and chisels an MDF topped bench like these will work but you'll probably soon wish you'd build something with a bit more backbone. If you are using mostly power tools then a top like this is fantastic.


Yes, setting a strip of easily replaced 6mm into my MFT tops makes them last a fair bit longer, but at they end of the day an MFT top is a consumable item to most people. I don’t think I’ve ever used one that wasn’t MRMDF, but if you feel the need then Birch ply would be a good option. Looks pretty, too - though I’d still inset a sacrificial strip, personally.

It’s easy to do and costs next to nothing, so I do it as a matter of course - I showed the process in this video just FYI.

HTH P


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## tradesman

£300 fur the router lift. I'm just looking to fix it and raise the bit!
aren't i


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## pe2dave

Treating MFT tops?
Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
Something to soak into the wood.
The holes (tight tolerances) bother me. Thinking of a roller, thin coats and 'something' to
clean out each row of holes as I pass?

Any experience doing this please?


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## Ollie78

tradesman said:


> £300 fur the router lift. I'm just looking to fix it and raise the bit!
> aren't i



Thats £300 for the lift and the motor.

You will find that if you put a standard router in plate with no lift that it will be super annoying in a very short time as you are fighting against the springs on the router.
Also you need to check the way the collet works on the router you plan to use as some have spindle locks which are very hard to operate once in a table setup.
Triton do a router with a removable spring and a rack and pinion handle which is somewhat better, I used to have this setup.
The problem is having to reach awkwardly under the table trying to accurately move the bit say half a mm. 

There are many home made ways to solve the issue like using a car jack or things like that. You can get other router lifts with handles that go in the top like Jess Em and Incra but by the time you bought a router and the lift mechanism the £300 for both is pretty decent value.
I have re done my router table many times and tried all sorts, I have had the one in the link for several years, set up with an Incra fence and it is the best so far. Not perfect but good.




pe2dave said:


> Treating MFT tops?
> Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
> Something to soak into the wood.
> The holes (tight tolerances) bother me. Thinking of a roller, thin coats and 'something' to
> clean out each row of holes as I pass?
> 
> Any experience doing this please?



Yes, I have tried this. On one I tried a oat of Osmo oil which was ok, on another I tried sanding sealer this shrank the holes quite a lot which surprised me, they loosen back up after using them though. I wouldn`t bother treating the mdf again.
I would not use plain MDF again, green MR mdf is much better but the winner is Birch ply with a wipe of sanding sealer.

Ollie


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## Sideways

pe2dave said:


> Treating MFT tops?
> Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
> Something to soak into the wood.
> The holes (tight tolerances) bother me. Thinking of a roller, thin coats and 'something' to
> clean out each row of holes as I pass?
> 
> Any experience doing this please?


Yup. I waxed one to make it easier to scrape off glue spill. Nightmare ! It got into the edges of the holes and made them swell up and the dogs wouldn't fit.
I use it as a glorified peg board for storing stuff on the wall now.

I now make my own tops using the parf guide. MRMDF and sometimes seal them with thinned (wiping) varnish but this is done before boring the holes.


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## Ollie78

Spectric said:


> Just a thought earlier in the day, has anyone looked at what they use to make the panels for the delivery vans and BT wagons? It is laminated and must be reasonably durable so anyone know of firms that build panel vans and the like onto chassis cabs could forward more info. Also you get these vans in salvage yards so the potential for cheap sheets of decent material.


Thats Phenolic coated birch ply, it is good stuff but not cheap I think I paid £90 for a sheet last time I had some. If you can get some salvaged then it is good stuff.
The one they use for shuttering is probably better as it has a smooth surface rather than a grippy pattern.
You can get solid Phenolic board too but that is crazy expensive as well, its what worktop jigs and things like that are made from.

Ollie


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## Sad Pangolin

That original post specifically uses Valchromat. I'm not sure it's classed as HDF or MDF --- it's similar in production etc to regular MDF, but very heavy and relatively moisture-resistant. It's a Portuguese product (Portuguese Youtube channel Make Hands Dirty regularly used it, which made them offer it for free, so she's using it more) and comes in a range of solid-through-the-mass colours.

On the continent Valchromat is relatively easy to get your hands on, but with a good markup and limited choices I've seen them on sale in the UK within a half-county radius (as in, you'll have a drive but not excessive for a one-off trip). The black is great for showing off on instagram, but I'd image bad to find your dark metal washers etc.

Limited in space myself, I've made a more solid version of Paoson's 
but with a very different top. All 70x100x90, I've made a very solid all-drawers unit (with flat face drawerpulls and a moxon tailvise and a frontvise), one more flimsy half-drawers the other half has half-shelves at the back (so as at a normal desk, your legs are under it). Together I can clamp 8ft stock, the combined tops working as three superlong bar clamps; separately I do drawing and electronics work on the 'flimsy desk' and bashing on the 'sturdy bench'. I'm finishing my third, most-mobile bench (short offcuts and spraycans) which is mostly to be used as infeed/outfeed/support and as natural home to drill press and eventually bandsaw; and planning my last containing tablesaw and router. If I need to break down a full 4x8 sheet I just move the two lightest in line with my heaviest, cover in scrap, add sheet, and tracksaw. Each is small enough to move out of the way as needed, and the lighter ones I can easily move out of my (narrow-doored) shed (with steps); the two heavy ones I'd need a mate. On eBay I bought four sets of identical 500kg levelling castors, less than £10 per wheel with 15mm travel.

His drawers vary obviously from his first version (which was roughly 200cm wide), I suspect on the basis of


The only person I know that worked professionally on a solid concrete bench wholeheartedly agreed with that last video, "it's a dream". Just like you can upgrade a 3D printer to be more precise & much quieter by putting them on a paver, your bench is a soundbox/ it deadens resonances.


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## Spectric

Ollie78 said:


> You will find that if you put a standard router in plate with no lift that it will be super annoying in a very short time as you are fighting against the springs on the router.



Hi

I am using the big orange triton router and have removed the spring, just a single screw to get it out and with this router you can adjust lift from above the table. There is also a knob that allows a quick raise so that you can easily change bits, it locks in the highest position. If you want to go further you can also remove the interlock that normally switches it off in the locked position and use a remote on/off switch to save fiddling under the table. BIG BUT , you need to always ensure the bit freely rotates by hand before turning it on, something I always do but is essential. Adjusting speed is still a fiddly task but requires a mirror. 

The router lifts using AUK motors and speed controllers are a good solution, this is not a cheap option and you may then want to buy a decent fence so more expense and use a muscle chuck to make bit changing easier, although not as powerful as the Triton you may just have to take a few more lighter cuts.


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## Ollie78

Hi Spectric 

I also had the Triton router in a Jess Em plate with an NVR switch, while it was much better than the Makita that I had in there before it is in no way as easy to use as the setup I have now. Which is basically the AUK one but branded differently . 
The motor is no less powerful in use than the Triton router as far as I can tell. 
I do think the Triton is a good solution, though not quite a standard router, but if I had to start again I would just skip straight to the motor lift combo. 

Ollie


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## Spectric

Hi

Is there any conclusions to the original question about what material for a worktop? MDF is unstable in it's base form but what do people like Kreg do that overcomes the issues, it looks like they encase it in something. Then Valchromat is really expensive for coloured MDF, is this because it is something different to MDF and it's properties are such that justify the cost, is it because it is not common in the UK so supply & demand or just that it falls under the so called designer label. 

Hi Ollie I think my biggest concern with the AUK type routers is that once you go down this route you have a single option lift plate, Peter mentioned the Jessem prestige which is the same lift mechanism but allows the use of std routers which is the direction I am now looking at. The Trition is ugly, orange, hopeless handheld and bit of an oddball but as a motor assembly it is good and cheap. I am currently looking at extracting the speed control module and mounting this in an enclosure along with the on/off switch and then it will deliver everything the AUK can. The only issue to address is the routers own lift, this may need to be fully compressed when fitted to a Jessem lift plate in which case the locking mechanism would need to go and a muscle chuck fitted.


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## mikej460

robgul said:


> I bought an MDF MFT top from one of the CNC suppliers .... wish I'd paid the extra £10 for the plywood version - the holes in the MDF are susceptible to cold and get slightly smaller as the material expands (my workshop isn't damp, just a bit cold) - I've sorted the dog fit by some very gentle reaming of the top edges of the dog-holes.
> 
> The coming week's tasks involve insulation and plasterboard for the ceiling of the workshop!


Could I ask where you bought it from?


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## Ollie78

Spectric

Valchromat is higher density than standard MDF and I think it has a different glue resin. It just feels like MR MDF to me. 
I think the original festool tops are made from it or a similar grade product. It is quite common but more in production workshops often flow finished with UV curing etc, I am sure they are not paying the retail price that you would be quoted for one sheet from lathams or wherever. 
I see nothing to beat birch ply for strength and stability.

I see your point about the motors in the AUK type thing but I suspect they are a "standard" motor size and not hard to find. Peters suggestion of the Jessem prestige is good of you already have a spare router to use.
Instead of extracting the speed controller perhaps you could use a rheostat type controller so you dont have to butcher the router. 

I think the ultimate router table setup would be a VFD controlled 3kw water cooled spindle, mounted on a linear guide ( like a CNC machine Z axis ) with stepper controlled ballscrew actuation for height control. 

Ollie


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## Doug B

My MFT top is made from Valchromat, it is far superior to MDF, I use printed buttons to keep the material being cut above the work surface, they work very well & prevent damage to the Valchromat.


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## petermillard

pe2dave said:


> Treating MFT tops?
> Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
> Something to soak into the wood.
> The holes (tight tolerances) bother me. Thinking of a roller, thin coats and 'something' to
> clean out each row of holes as I pass?
> 
> Any experience doing this please?


Yes, I treat all mine as a matter of course; I show the process in the video I linked to earlier. Stain, hard wax oil, lacquer, use whatever you have - I've used them all without any problems, but - and I'm going to shout this out loud - *YOU NEED TO USE DECENT MDF IN THE FIRST PLACE! *Use MRMDF - it is a much better board for not much more money. Whatever finish you apply, clear the dog-holes with a spare dog while the finish is wet - or at least before it dries fully - as it's a much easier job. Don't ask me how I know that.

HTH P


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## Spectric

Ollie78 said:


> Instead of extracting the speed controller perhaps you could use a rheostat type controller so you dont have to butcher the router.


Hi Ollie

Have looked at other speed options but unfortunately I cannot put another in series with the internal module. Luckily it sits under the end cap and removed with two screws so easy modification and could always be put back.

Peter, so Valchromat at £120 sheet is no better than MR MDF which is £24 a sheet, as long as we treat it. Better still Birch ply with a wipe of sanding sealer.


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## MikeK

I'm in the process of building a 1x2 meter MFT-style workbench and will be using a 50mm wide HDPE sacrificial strip in my table top. I have 8mm and 5mm thick sheets, but haven't decided which one I will use yet. My original plan was to use 19mm MDF for the top, but the stores only stock 18mm thick MDF. I recently found a local source that advertises the 19mm Valchromat in stock, so I'll go there tomorrow to see what they have.

For the surface treatment, whether I use the 18mm MDF or the 19mm Valchromat, I'll apply 15-20 coats of wipe-on poly mixed 50/50 with thinner. If I allow an hour between coats this will take several days to finish.


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## Spectric

Has anyone used or heard of Medite Tricoya MDF, again not cheap but comes with a long guarantee apparantly. MEDITE TRICOYA EXTREME | Arnold Laver


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## Doug B

Tricoya is generally used where a water proof panel is needed in external painted joinery usually in conjunction with Accoya timber.


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## petermillard

Spectric said:


> Peter, so Valchromat at £120 sheet is no better than MR MDF which is £24 a sheet, as long as we treat it. Better still Birch ply with a wipe of sanding sealer.


Well, it’s prettier, I guess  I’m sure Investwood, the company behind the Valchromat brand will tell you they are all kinds of differences vs MRMDF though they seem reluctant to actually specify those differences, preferring to compare themselves to regular MDF. Go figure.


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## Doug B

Latham’s technical data on Valchromat 



https://www.lathamtimber.co.uk/contentfiles/files/EN_Valchromat_Technical_Data_Sheet_2020_1.pdf



It’s denser than standard MDF so heavier & stands up to wear & tear better, whether it’s worth the extra cost is down to personal choice, I prefer it but then again it doesn’t cost me anything like £120 a sheet.


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## Ollie78

Tricoya is mental expensive and for anything short of wet all the time pretty much overkill, if you are going to that price range then you might as well go full thickness phenolic which will probably last forever but will be so nice you wont want to cut into it !
Remember it is supposed to be a replaceable sacrificial element.
There is some stuff called EKO ply which is some wood plastic recycled hybrid that might be good but probably expensive too.
I have some HDPE which I think is 12mm or maybe 15mm but it doesn`t stay flat on its own so would need to be supported with plywood or something anyway.

Ollie


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## Droogs

If I were to ever make and use an MFT type top for machine working, I think I would go for a final top layer of UHMWPE sheet. which would give me a great low friction surface for moving bits of wood on. Ultra hard wearing and would outlast my working career that i have left. You would just have to place a couple of sacrificial strips in areas you know will get damaged in use. Amazing stuff really as slippery as telflon and has a better wear resistance than phosphour bronze.


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## tradesman

Wow - cant say any more than wow my mind is blown - so for someone whose just starting on there journey would you reccomend a router assembly for low cost router that could be removed say from the top- adjusted roughly -replaced and then fine adjusted from the top-yes faffing about but time is not an issue its a hobby. maybe keep the end of the workbench open so its easy to get to- ?? so to summarise - triton TRA001 - fitted into plate - remove springs etc so can be adjusted from the top - removable plate so the bit is easy to replace - remote on-off switch ???? make sense - then save up for a lift and a decent fence £300 ish and do it properly when youve got the hang of it and relaised you should have spent the money at the beginning but your wife would be found out!!


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## Spectric

Hi


tradesman said:


> removable plate so the bit is easy to replace


No need to remove plate just the insert ring, that gives access to change the bit when router is fully raised.


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## Droogs

I have 3 Tritons. One of each size. the TRF is usually in my table, the MOF is used as my 1/2" move around machine as a lot light than it's big brother and a JOF as my big move around 1/4" along with several Katsu and Parkside dremel things in veritas bases. I don't think I will change the TRF out for any thing as very happy with it and the way it adjusts. The only thing I did to it was fit a NVR switch into the start up circuitry and mod the cutoff plastic guard plate (there is a thread on here showing how in a video) to stop my annoyance at it. The switch guard is great when using handheld but a pain in the butt in the table.


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## custard

pe2dave said:


> Treating MFT tops?
> Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
> Something to soak into the wood.
> Any experience doing this please?



I did this once on an MFT top. Not because the workshop was damp but because I put coffee mugs on it, I had the bright idea that some form of spillage protection might be sensible. 

Bad idea.

I used a proprietary tin of something that claimed to waterproof MDF. Maybe it did, but it also made the MDF swell up and adopt a slightly rippled surface.


----------



## jackal

pe2dave said:


> Treating MFT tops?
> Has anyone treated a top (MDF or ply) to address damp conditions?
> Something to soak into the wood.
> The holes (tight tolerances) bother me. Thinking of a roller, thin coats and 'something' to
> clean out each row of holes as I pass?
> 
> Any experience doing this please?


My benches are treated with Cascamite wood glue mixed thin then sanded


----------



## Sideways

MikeK said:


> For the surface treatment, whether I use the 18mm MDF or the 19mm Valchromat, I'll apply 15-20 coats of wipe-on poly mixed 50/50 with thinner. If I allow an hour between coats this will take several days to finish.


No need to seal valchromat.
It's far superior to MRMDF in that regard. There's a lot more resin in it. You can tell it's a harder material and I'd bet you won't get it to soak up more than 1 coat of wiping varnish at best.


----------



## MikeK

Sideways said:


> No need to seal valchromat.
> It's far superior to MRMDF in that regard. There's a lot more resin in it. You can tell it's a harder material and I'd bet you won't get it to soak up more than 1 coat of wiping varnish at best.



Thank you! I wasn't looking forward to the time consuming process of the wipe-on poly.


----------



## Ollie78

Tradesman

Just to add another thought as you state you are a beginner with router tables, perhaps ebay and gumtree are the answer. You often see very cheap router tables pop up. ROUTER TABLE WITH HITACHI ROUTER, GOOD CONDITION WITH EXTRAS | eBay Record power used to do a great one with a sliding table, many powertool manufacturers have come out with small router tables.
Or for simplicity these ones come with a built in lift and router, like a mini spindle moulder. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumberjack...6N04ABQJXZF&psc=1&refRID=HA64BF31E6N04ABQJXZF
I have considered getting one to keep in the van for quick adjustments and stuff, they come in many colours and brands. Never tried one so don`t know the quality but its a simple solution.

Ollie


----------



## Paul Narramore

DBT85 said:


> The dude that made the "pretty" bench would probably say that your 3 motorcycles are unesssasary. Or maybe he wouldn't judge what others put in their own space for their own needs quite as harshly as you seem to have done.


----------



## J-G

Ollie78 said:


> Or for simplicity these ones come with a built in lift and router, like a mini spindle moulder.


I bought one of those last October and it has been a boon - for hobby use - it comes with ½" & ¼" collets and height adjustment, spindle speed and tool change are very easy.


----------



## tradesman

Hi ollie - that lumber jack might be the job - I have a lumberjack morticer which is pretty good for what i use it for and how often - this would be a great started and the same price as the triton. I can keep the hitachi hand held I have and use his for the other stuff.

any one with any experience of this machine??

*Lumberjack Tools RT1500 1500W Bench Top Router Table*



https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lumberjack-RT1500-1500W-Router-Intergrated/dp/B00ZOYF7RS


----------



## MikeK

Sideways said:


> No need to seal valchromat.
> It's far superior to MRMDF in that regard. There's a lot more resin in it. You can tell it's a harder material and I'd bet you won't get it to soak up more than 1 coat of wiping varnish at best.



I bought a sheet of the 19mm Valchromat yesterday for my workbench project. It is noticeably different than MDF I buy at the big box stores, and I am looking forward to machining it when it's time to attach to the workbench frame. The surface is very smooth and will not require any sanding to improve it. I'll experiment with a few pieces of the offcuts, but based on what I can see now, a coat of wax is all that will be required for the finish.

With VAT, the cost of a 2500x1250mm sheet of 19mm Valchromat was €81. The vendor didn't charge me to cut the sheet to a width of 1100mm so the 2500mm long sheet would fit between the wheel wells of my truck. I'll trim it to the final width of 1000mm in my garage using the track saw.


----------



## J-G

tradesman said:


> any one with any experience of this machine??


Did you not read messages #58 & #60 ?


----------



## Fidget

Valchromat makes a very nice zero clearance insert too


----------



## Doug B

MikeK said:


> I bought a sheet of the 19mm Valchromat yesterday for my workbench project. It is noticeably different than MDF I buy at the big box stores, and I am looking forward to machining it when it's time to attach to the workbench frame. The surface is very smooth and will not require any sanding to improve it. I'll experiment with a few pieces of the offcuts, but based on what I can see now, a coat of wax is all that will be required for the finish.
> 
> With VAT, the cost of a 2500x1250mm sheet of 19mm Valchromat was €81. The vendor didn't charge me to cut the sheet to a width of 1100mm so the 2500mm long sheet would fit between the wheel wells of my truck. I'll trim it to the final width of 1000mm in my garage using the track saw.


I’m sure you will be happy with it Mike


----------



## tradesman

Hi - I did just wondered if anyone else had used it!


----------



## billw

MikeK said:


> With VAT, the cost of a 2500x1250mm sheet of 19mm Valchromat was €81.



THat is a LOT cheaper than I have managed to find over here! Cheapest I've found is more like £80+VAT!


----------



## DBT85

billw said:


> THat is a LOT cheaper than I have managed to find over here! Cheapest I've found is more like £80+VAT!


Good strong £! lol


----------



## tradesman

Ok so I have my design !!!! ot sure if i should start a new topic but here goes

workbench on wheels - Yes - No !!!?? 

I see lots of designs on wheels - i can do either for now - my workshop is quite small 12ft square so wheels may give me more assembly space options later 0 i intend to have a 600mm bench down one wall for chop saw morticer etc and storage underneath.

so wheels yay or nay ( if yay which ones !!)


----------



## pe2dave

Yes to wheels, but front two lockable. Then check that bench height suits you *with* wheels 
Guess - fully loaded less than 200kg? So 80kg wheel (each) more than sufficient. Lots around. GIYF


----------



## ScaredyCat

tradesman said:


> most things Scandinavian are !!!



He's Dutch not Scandinavian.

Velchromat isn't the only option, Vibracol or COL is half the price.


----------



## billw

I'm going to use Valchromat for all of my surfaces in the workshop. Not cheap but seems like a sensible long term option. 

@tradesman I'm putting wheels on everything except the bench, as that will be the focal point of the workshop. Everything else can then be moved around it. I'd also like one unit that has very little chance of moving, even accidentally!


----------



## MikeK

The 19mm Valchromat works well for my workbench. It took me about three hours to drill the 200 dog holes and chamfer both sides of the top. Maybe it was my technique with the first time using the Parf MK2 Guide, but the unsupported bottom of the dog holes weren't as crisp as the top and there was some slight tear out on some of the holes. The chamfer tool cleaned up most of it.

I was very pleased with the accuracy Parf guide, despite this being the first time I've done this. I checked the squareness of the hole grid using the large TSO MTR triangle and bench dogs in ten or twelve places, and the hole alignment is perfect. As soon as I fit the sacrificial HDPE strip, I'll do the 5-cut test for squareness; although, I'm confident it will be fine.

This is the workbench with the fence and FS 1400/2 Guide Rail attached.






I wanted a durable finish for the Valchromat, so I used a test piece. This board has ten 20mm dog holes and one 18mm hole with the Forstner cutter to determine the cutting depth for the mounting screw and washer. I divided this board into three sections by making a shallow saw kerf to make it easier for me to remember where one finish ends and the next begins. The top kerf is not visible in this image, but it is there.

The top section, with three dog holes and the Forstner hole, is unsanded. The middle section, with four dog holes, is sanded with P150-grit paper. The bottom section, with three dog holes, is sanded with P150, P220, and P400. I then applied a thin coat of the hardwax oil to the entire board, ensuring the chamfer edges were coated. I intentionally let some of the oil dribble into one dog hole in each section. After ten minutes, I wiped off the excess and let it dry for 12 hours. When I inspected the board, there was no residue of oil when checked with a clean rag, and the dogs fit perfectly in the holes, even the ones that I didn't clean after letting oil dribble into them.

I applied another thin coat and wiped off the excess after ten minutes. This photo was taken about four hours after I applied the second coat, and it is already dry to the touch. The finish is surprisingly hard and I can feel the difference between the sections. The section with the P400 finish and two coats of oil is the winner for me. 

The small 250ml can in the photo is more than enough oil to apply two coats to the workbench top. I wanted a matte finish, but after driving to four stores, the best I could find was semi-matte.


----------



## MikeK

tradesman said:


> workbench on wheels - Yes - No !!!??
> 
> I see lots of designs on wheels - i can do either for now - my workshop is quite small 12ft square so wheels may give me more assembly space options later 0 i intend to have a 600mm bench down one wall for chop saw morticer etc and storage underneath.
> 
> so wheels yay or nay ( if yay which ones !!)



Definitely yes, but I recommend dual locking wheels on all four corners. This will allow you to lock the workbench so you can apply force in any direction. You will likely only need to lock two corners at a time, but they might not always be the same two corners each time you wheel the workbench out. The best locking castors not only lock the wheel, but lock the pivot.


----------



## ScaredyCat

How is the festool rail attached? Does it attach at both sides? Is that just t-slot profile? (eg 45 x 45L Aluminium profile ). I looked at costing up a bench made from this type of profile but it worked out cheaper to use 18mm Baltic birch.


----------



## Doug B

MikeK said:


> The 19mm Valchromat works well for my workbench. It took me about three hours to drill the 200 dog holes and chamfer both sides of the top. Maybe it was my technique with the first time using the Parf MK2 Guide, but the unsupported bottom of the dog holes weren't as crisp as the top and there was some slight tear out on some of the holes. The chamfer tool cleaned up most of it.
> 
> I was very pleased with the accuracy Parf guide, despite this being the first time I've done this. I checked the squareness of the hole grid using the large TSO MTR triangle and bench dogs in ten or twelve places, and the hole alignment is perfect. As soon as I fit the sacrificial HDPE strip, I'll do the 5-cut test for squareness; although, I'm confident it will be fine.
> 
> This is the workbench with the fence and FS 1400/2 Guide Rail attached.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted a durable finish for the Valchromat, so I used a test piece. This board has ten 20mm dog holes and one 18mm hole with the Forstner cutter to determine the cutting depth for the mounting screw and washer. I divided this board into three sections by making a shallow saw kerf to make it easier for me to remember where one finish ends and the next begins. The top kerf is not visible in this image, but it is there.
> 
> The top section, with three dog holes and the Forstner hole, is unsanded. The middle section, with four dog holes, is sanded with P150-grit paper. The bottom section, with three dog holes, is sanded with P150, P220, and P400. I then applied a thin coat of the hardwax oil to the entire board, ensuring the chamfer edges were coated. I intentionally let some of the oil dribble into one dog hole in each section. After ten minutes, I wiped off the excess and let it dry for 12 hours. When I inspected the board, there was no residue of oil when checked with a clean rag, and the dogs fit perfectly in the holes, even the ones that I didn't clean after letting oil dribble into them.
> 
> I applied another thin coat and wiped off the excess after ten minutes. This photo was taken about four hours after I applied the second coat, and it is already dry to the touch. The finish is surprisingly hard and I can feel the difference between the sections. The section with the P400 finish and two coats of oil is the winner for me.
> 
> The small 250ml can in the photo is more than enough oil to apply two coats to the workbench top. I wanted a matte finish, but after driving to four stores, the best I could find was semi-matte.


That looks excellent Mike  
I hadn’t thought of putting an oil finish on mine but having seen your post I think I will


----------



## Doug B

MikeK said:


> Definitely yes, but I recommend dual locking wheels on all four corners. This will allow you to lock the workbench so you can apply force in any direction. You will likely only need to lock two corners at a time, but they might not always be the same two corners each time you wheel the workbench out. The best locking castors not only lock the wheel, but lock the pivot.



+1 completely agree.


----------



## billw

@MikeK what's the size of that top so I can get the perspective of what I was planning?


----------



## ScaredyCat

billw said:


> THat is a LOT cheaper than I have managed to find over here! Cheapest I've found is more like £80+VAT!



Have a look at https://cutlist.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Cutlist-Coloured-MDF-Price-List-R11-2020.pdf They have Velchromat (£100) and an alternative too.(£83.40)


----------



## MikeK

ScaredyCat said:


> How is the festool rail attached? Does it attach at both sides? Is that just t-slot profile? (eg 45 x 45L Aluminium profile ). I looked at costing up a bench made from this type of profile but it worked out cheaper to use 18mm Baltic birch.




I'll make a project thread for this bench when I'm finished, but here are some of the details now. I kept all of the receipts so far, and this is not an inexpensive table; however, I can't find a similar table for sale. I considered buying two of the Festool MFT/3 tables, but I would not have any storage or additional capability that I have with my workbench.

This is not my design, but one I adapted from AtomicRyan on the Festool Owners Group and his YouTube channel _The Garage Journal_. Ryan's workbench used a full 8x4 sheet of 19mm MDF, but my basement shop is too small to accommodate this size, so I reduced it to 1x2 meters.

Using angle aluminum for the frame should work well, as will the baltic birch top as long as you take your time boring the dog holes. If your goal is to make a work surface, any choice in a sturdy frame is good.

The aluminum extrusion is from a German company, item24, but it appears to be similar to the 8020 product in the U.S., and other extrusion products in the UK (item24 has a UK branch). I used Series 8 profile for my workbench, with 40x40mm for the main frame and 80x40 for the top rail on the four sides. I wanted dual T-track slots for the top rail. The T-slot is 8mm wide and the Festool clamps fit perfectly in the slot, as does an M8 carriage bolt head.

Here is the order I received from item24...






...and here it is a few hours later completely assembled. I have since added two more top cross pieces and spaced them evenly to give more support to the 19mm top.






The Festool guide rail is attached to the extrusion with the Dash-Board Guide Rail kit






Every piece of extrusion can be used with the Festool clamps or custom holders using the M8 carriage bolts. I milled these slots into each piece using a four-flute carbide cutter and my router. I made a template from scrap 12mm plywood to mill two pieces, end to end, at a time. The keyhole slot allows the M8 bolt head to fit into the slot and slide down the track. The Festool, or Bessey, clamps fit in the wider area and slide down the track.


----------



## MikeK

billw said:


> @MikeK what's the size of that top so I can get the perspective of what I was planning?



The exterior dimension for the aluminum frame is 1x2 meters. The Valchromat top was originally 1x2 meters, but I trimmed each edge of the top so it is inset 2mm on each side. This fixed an error I made when drilling the dog holes, and ensures the top does not interfere with anything clamped to the vertical rails.

When I initially marked the reference line for the Parf MK2 rail along the 2-meter side, the width of the 0.5mm pencil line was accurate, but my placement of the guide on the line was not so good. The result was the perfect 10x20 grid of holes was skewed by about 1mm on the sheet. To fix this, I put a dog in each of the corner holes and centered the grid on the frame, with respect to the edges. This allowed me to see how much my guide error caused in the overall pattern, and determine how much to trim to make the sheet match the holes. 

I used the FS 3000/2 guide rail and my tracksaw to square the sheet to the holes, and the overall change was a 4mm reduction on the width and length. This translated to a 2mm offset on each side, and I doubt I could have planned it better.

My lesson learned from this for the next workbench is to use a marking knife to make the reference marks for the Parf guide rail and not a pencil. However, I also think making the holes and then adjusting the sheet to fit is also a good plan.


----------



## craigs

MikeK said:


> I'll make a project thread for this bench when I'm finished, but here are some of the details now. I kept all of the receipts so far, and this is not an inexpensive table; however, I can't find a similar table for sale. I considered buying two of the Festool MFT/3 tables, but I would not have any storage or additional capability that I have with my workbench.
> 
> This is not my design, but one I adapted from AtomicRyan on the Festool Owners Group and his YouTube channel _The Garage Journal_. Ryan's workbench used a full 8x4 sheet of 19mm MDF, but my basement shop is too small to accommodate this size, so I reduced it to 1x2 meters.
> 
> Using angle aluminum for the frame should work well, as will the baltic birch top as long as you take your time boring the dog holes. If your goal is to make a work surface, any choice in a sturdy frame is good.
> 
> The aluminum extrusion is from a German company, item24, but it appears to be similar to the 8020 product in the U.S., and other extrusion products in the UK (item24 has a UK branch). I used Series 8 profile for my workbench, with 40x40mm for the main frame and 80x40 for the top rail on the four sides. I wanted dual T-track slots for the top rail. The T-slot is 8mm wide and the Festool clamps fit perfectly in the slot, as does an M8 carriage bolt head.
> 
> Here is the order I received from item24...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...and here it is a few hours later completely assembled. I have since added two more top cross pieces and spaced them evenly to give more support to the 19mm top.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Festool guide rail is attached to the extrusion with the Dash-Board Guide Rail kit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every piece of extrusion can be used with the Festool clamps or custom holders using the M8 carriage bolts. I milled these slots into each piece using a four-flute carbide cutter and my router. I made a template from scrap 12mm plywood to mill two pieces, end to end, at a time. The keyhole slot allows the M8 bolt head to fit into the slot and slide down the track. The Festool, or Bessey, clamps fit in the wider area and slide down the track.


that is a much sturdier version of this...






MFT BENCHES - Benches







www.aluminium-profile.co.uk





I think i may have to make your version, do you have an order list?


----------



## MikeK

craigsalisbury said:


> I think i may have to make your version, do you have an order list?



I attached screen shots from the 26-page PDF that the item24 engineering application created that show the parts list and the exploded view. Position 3v is now 11 instead of 9, and the fastener 0.0.026.07 is 50 to account for the extra two support beams (Position 3v).

It took me a while to figure out how to use the engineering application on the item24 website, but once I did, building the workbench took about an hour. The output of the application is a PDF that shows the CNC operations on each piece, and exploded view, and assembly instructions unique to this workbench. I used the PDF to perform a quality check to make sure all of the components and parts counts were correct, and I discovered I had not joined a couple of horizontal pieces completely. As a result, the application did not add the joining hardware, identify the through holes, or the tapped holes at the joint. I went back into the application, nudged the extrusion so it made contact, and I immediately saw the holes appear at the joint.

When I was satisfied with the results, I submitted the project and waited. The next working day, I received an email confirmation of the order with a price quote. I accepted the order, and six days later the packages arrived. My cost for the original order, inclusive of VAT and shipping, was €1,214.


----------



## craigs

MikeK said:


> I attached screen shots from the 26-page PDF that the item24 engineering application created that show the parts list and the exploded view. Position 3v is now 11 instead of 9, and the fastener 0.0.026.07 is 50 to account for the extra two support beams (Position 3v).
> 
> It took me a while to figure out how to use the engineering application on the item24 website, but once I did, building the workbench took about an hour. The output of the application is a PDF that shows the CNC operations on each piece, and exploded view, and assembly instructions unique to this workbench. I used the PDF to perform a quality check to make sure all of the components and parts counts were correct, and I discovered I had not joined a couple of horizontal pieces completely. As a result, the application did not add the joining hardware, identify the through holes, or the tapped holes at the joint. I went back into the application, nudged the extrusion so it made contact, and I immediately saw the holes appear at the joint.
> 
> When I was satisfied with the results, I submitted the project and waited. The next working day, I received an email confirmation of the order with a price quote. I accepted the order, and six days later the packages arrived. My cost for the original order, inclusive of VAT and shipping, was €1,214.
> 
> 
> View attachment 96560
> 
> 
> View attachment 96559


fantastic! thank you, i just plugged in the profile in aluminium-profile.co.uk and it only comes out 666 (work of the devil?) so im guesing with fasteners and castors it should come out a similar price.....saves me having to build a workbench


----------



## MikeK

craigsalisbury said:


> fantastic! thank you, i just plugged in the profile in aluminium-profile.co.uk and it only comes out 666 (work of the devil?) so im guesing with fasteners and castors it should come out a similar price.....saves me having to build a workbench



The IR line appears to be identical to the item24 products. The £666 sounds reasonable without the cost for the extra machining (drilling and tapping), hardware, and accessories. If you selected the IR line, make sure you use the standard connectors for the size of extrusion you selected. 

Also, item24 makes a drill jig for each size of profile. While not required, the jig makes drilling the 7mm through holes in the extrusion easy and accurate. I couldn't find one on the KJN site, but here is the drilling jig from the item24 site. There are a bit pricey, at €115, but if you are going to be drilling all of the through holes yourself, this will save you a lot of frustration.






item Shop


global.home.metaDescription




product.item24.de


----------



## craigs

MikeK said:


> The IR line appears to be identical to the item24 products. The £666 sounds reasonable without the cost for the extra machining (drilling and tapping), hardware, and accessories. If you selected the IR line, make sure you use the standard connectors for the size of extrusion you selected.
> 
> Also, item24 makes a drill jig for each size of profile. While not required, the jig makes drilling the 7mm through holes in the extrusion easy and accurate. I couldn't find one on the KJN site, but here is the drilling jig from the item24 site. There are a bit pricey, at €115, but if you are going to be drilling all of the through holes yourself, this will save you a lot of frustration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> item Shop
> 
> 
> global.home.metaDescription
> 
> 
> 
> 
> product.item24.de


That £666 includes drilling, but possibly not tapping on the ends. It going to be a project after christmas at this rate, but at least i have everything i need to make the order when im ready, so thanks for sharing your parts list.


----------



## Ollie78

MikeK

That is almost the same construcion as my CNC machine. It is a brilliant construction method. Super solid and If you change your mind you can dismantle it and build something else. It is adult mechano.
I have noticed your drawers at the end, just wondering how you have affixed the plywood or whatever it is into the extrusion, have you used an angle bracket or a special fixing. I am now coveting drawers on my cnc machine, I never thought of it before.

Ollie


----------



## ScaredyCat

MikeK said:


> While not required, the jig makes drilling the 7mm through holes in the extrusion easy and accurate. I couldn't find one on the KJN site, but here is the drilling jig from the item24 site.



I think this is what you were looking for, similar pricing though






Search results for: 'drilling & boring jig'







www.aluminium-profile.co.uk


----------



## Sideways

Doug B said:


> That looks excellent Mike
> I hadn’t thought of putting an oil finish on mine but having seen your post I think I will


Smiling here 
When I made mine, I wiped the valchromat top over with IKEA food safe mineral oil for chopping boards. I then stuck a heavy drill on top and used a thin sheet of cork in between to deal with pressure points.
The cork was drawing oil back out of that table top for weeks.
I think Valchromat is so resin dense that stuff really doesn't soak into it.
Let us know if you find the same thing Mike 
It won't do much good, but it doesn't seem to do any harm either ....


----------



## MikeK

ScaredyCat said:


> I think this is what you were looking for, similar pricing though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Search results for: 'drilling & boring jig'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aluminium-profile.co.uk



That's it!


----------



## MikeK

Ollie78 said:


> I have noticed your drawers at the end, just wondering how you have affixed the plywood or whatever it is into the extrusion, have you used an angle bracket or a special fixing. I am now coveting drawers on my cnc machine, I never thought of it before.
> 
> Ollie



Ollie, I cut rabbets in the edges of the 15mm thick plywood so it would slide in the 8mm channel. The panels aren't fastened to the aluminum, but they are secure and don't move once the frame is tightened around them. I used my router table to cut the rabbets. In this photo, I've already cut the rabbet on one side and am now cutting the rabbet on the other side. The resulting tongue is 8mm thick and 10mm wide, and slides easily, in the channel without bottoming out in the channel.






Here's a photo of the inner panels while I was painting them. You can see the rabbet on both surfaces of the plywood around three of the edges. The catch tray below the Valchromat rests on the top of these panels, so there is no rabbet. The exterior panels that are surrounded by aluminum extrusion are rabbeted on all edges only on the inner surface. The corners of each rabbeted edges must be cut at a 45-degree angle because the joining hardware extends into the 8mm channel. The narrow boards attached to the plywood are the battens for the drawer slides.


----------



## Ollie78

Thanks MikeK

That is a good method, I might try it. My only concern is having to remove the leg in order to slide the panel in, I have some diagonal supports in there too.
I guess if I make the panel a nice tight fit I can remove the supports as it will replace them.
Your workshop is looking so neat and tidy it puts me to shame !

Ollie


----------



## MikeK

Ollie78 said:


> Thanks MikeK
> 
> That is a good method, I might try it. My only concern is having to remove the leg in order to slide the panel in, I have some diagonal supports in there too.
> I guess if I make the panel a nice tight fit I can remove the supports as it will replace them.



Ollie, I assembled and disassembled the workbench several times while fitting the various pieces. You get really good at it after a while. The internal spacing between the vertical uprights is 920mm. I cut the inner partitions in the photo above to 940mm wide, and then removed 10mm from each side for the rabbet. As I test fitted the panel, it fit perfectly as I tightened the hardware on the horizontal beams.



> Your workshop is looking so neat and tidy it puts me to shame !



If you saw it now, you wouldn't say that.


----------



## billw

Quick question @MikeK , there are lots of CNC cut MFT table jigs/tops sold on ebay, would buying one of those be a good way to ensure I get the layout of holes correct? I've not looked into this too closely yet so I'm not sure if the holes have to be a specified distance apart.


----------



## Ollie78

Billw 

I have tried one of the CNC mft guides. It is like 2 rows of oversized holes and you use a guide bush in the router and it has alignment dogs for the edge which you use on the holes after you cut the first row. 
I did get it to work but it was not a method I would repeat. The setup on the guide bush has to be VERY precise, they supplied an aluminium tape to take out any discrepancy but if everything is not perfectly centred in the router (with a mandrel to centre the bush first) then it is not really accurate enough.

I would say Peter Parfitts guide looks a better method. But for the price of the CNC made birch ply tops you would need to use it a lot to make it worthwhile.

Ollie


----------



## MikeK

billw said:


> Quick question @MikeK , there are lots of CNC cut MFT table jigs/tops sold on ebay, would buying one of those be a good way to ensure I get the layout of holes correct? I've not looked into this too closely yet so I'm not sure if the holes have to be a specified distance apart.



Bill, I think the CNC cut tables from a reputable shop will likely have consistent results, but even then, there's no guarantee. The source of my workbench design, Ryan, had three 8x4 sheets of 19mm MDF cut at CNC shops before he found one that was accurate. I had considered using replacement Festool MFT/3 tops, at about €150 each, instead of making my own, but the replacement tops are 1102mm x 718mm. I would have to buy three tops for a table larger than what I wanted, or two tops for a table smaller than what I wanted. Each top was about twice the cost of the Valchromat sheet, but I would be spared the labor of cutting the holes.

If you're not tied to Festool products or any project that relies on the 96mm center to center spacing, then I don't think the spacing of the holes is important as long as they are accurate. I might never need to use each of the 200 holes in my table, but they are there just in case.


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## MikeK

Sideways said:


> Smiling here
> When I made mine, I wiped the valchromat top over with IKEA food safe mineral oil for chopping boards. I then stuck a heavy drill on top and used a thin sheet of cork in between to deal with pressure points.
> The cork was drawing oil back out of that table top for weeks.
> I think Valchromat is so resin dense that stuff really doesn't soak into it.
> Let us know if you find the same thing Mike
> It won't do much good, but it doesn't seem to do any harm either ....



I haven't seen any leaching out yet, but it's only been a couple of days for the test piece. If I had sensitive scales, I could have weighed the cloth I used to wipe off the excess from each coat, but you are correct...it is denser than MDF and didn't absorb as much as the small piece of MDF I tried at the same time. With the MDF, there wasn't much to wipe off after ten minutes.


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## billw

MikeK said:


> If you're not tied to Festool products or any project that relies on the 96mm center to center spacing, then I don't think the spacing of the holes is important as long as they are accurate. I might never need to use each of the 200 holes in my table, but they are there just in case.



I can't say I've looked at anything Festool related! I've mainly looked at Veritas and Benchdogs stuff.


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## MikeK

billw said:


> I can't say I've looked at anything Festool related! I've mainly looked at Veritas and Benchdogs stuff.


I have some dogs from Benchdogs, but don't have anything from Veritas. However, these product lines might focus more on the 20mm diameter dog hole diameter rather than the dog hole spacing. If so, then the hole spacing is whatever you want it to be.


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## tradesman

hi guys , write that's an impressive bench.

so 4 locking wheels, any preference for where to get them. if rather not go to eBay


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## billw

tradesman said:


> hi guys , write that's an impressive bench.
> 
> so 4 locking wheels, any preference for where to get them. if rather not go to eBay



I got some from Amazon the other day, sets of 2/4 locking were £12, I think 4/4 locking were £13.


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## Simondo923

tradesman said:


> Ok so I have my design !!!! ot sure if i should start a new topic but here goes
> 
> workbench on wheels - Yes - No !!!??
> 
> I see lots of designs on wheels - i can do either for now - my workshop is quite small 12ft square so wheels may give me more assembly space options later 0 i intend to have a 600mm bench down one wall for chop saw morticer etc and storage underneath.
> 
> so wheels yay or nay ( if yay which ones !!)


Yes I would use wheels. My workshop is not big and I intend to put my bench on castors. Gives you more options as no doubt your ideas will change, your space will change and it's just easier to rearrange or move it just to clean. As it has been said, at least 2 of the castors need brakes. Best wishes.


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## tradesman

i bought some wheels from banggood - ok but not great - any suggestions for size?? style type - when it comes to wheels i have less idea than sturgeon and covid


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## billw

tradesman said:


> i bought some wheels from banggood - ok but not great - any suggestions for size?? style type - when it comes to wheels i have less idea than sturgeon and covid



Sturgeon and Covid sounds like a legal firm. I'd recommend round wheels as a style. Joking aside, I bought the ones linked below because they were reasonably priced (cheaper than I said in my earlier post), and had almost 4,000 reviews on Amazon so I could get a good idea whether they were up to the job.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0791G1W7C


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## tradesman

thanks mate - gone with your suggestion


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## Spectric

Hi Mike

That bench along with your router table are true examples of German engineering and the standards are as high as ever, I used to visit merkenich and Stuttgart on business back in the days when you had the deutschemark as currency and all the engineering companies were amazing.


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## MikeK

Thank you, Roy! I'm really a retired American living in Germany.

I created a build thread for my workbench in the Projects forum that goes into more detail. I'll create a similar thread for the router table.









MFT-Style Workbench


1. Introduction One of the items missing from my workshop is a large flat work surface that can be used for assembly and fabrication. I have a wooden Sjöbergs workbench, but want to reserve it for hand tool use. It's location makes it of limited use since it is against the wall and I can't...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk





As with the router table, I don't take credit for the original design, as my projects are derivative of the hard work of others. Editing is easy, creating is difficult. If someone has a design that I like and can use, I'm not bashful about copying and giving credit.


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## Roberto Flintofski

billw said:


> Sturgeon and Covid sounds like a legal firm. I'd recommend round wheels as a style. Joking aside, I bought the ones linked below because they were reasonably priced (cheaper than I said in my earlier post), and had almost 4,000 reviews on Amazon so I could get a good idea whether they were up to the job.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0791G1W7C





What did you think to the wheels? I got some locking ones off a screwfix 100mm and now aneed a step to reach the bench and the locks on them are proper crappy!!


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## TRITON

Have to add that workbenches do take a lot of abuse from drawing on them to hammering,paint, spills of finish,glue drips and general wear and tear. I like something i can sand clean or replace entirely.

Lots of holes for benchdogs might be great in some German carpentry factory, but in a home workshop it seems a step too far.

It is a workbench after all, and of those ive seen from the great makers of the past look extremely rough and worn, with saw cuts and bashes all over


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## billw

Roberto Flintofski said:


> What did you think to the wheels? I got some locking ones off a screwfix 100mm and now aneed a step to reach the bench and the locks on them are proper crappy!!



Seem great so far! Screws that come with them are pretty meaty and the locking mechanism is robust. I think in hindsight I might have preferred all four to be locking because with some force you can get the benches to shift, but then again it would be a nuisance to reach the back two because the bench is against a wall.

Quality wise though, can't fault them.


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## Roberto Flintofski

billw said:


> Seem great so far! Screws that come with them are pretty meaty and the locking mechanism is robust. I think in hindsight I might have preferred all four to be locking because with some force you can get the benches to shift, but then again it would be a nuisance to reach the back two because the bench is against a wall.
> 
> Quality wise though, can't fault them.




Someone posted on the reviews about them not aligning when locking but I guess some folk are overly critical!!


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## billw

Roberto Flintofski said:


> Someone posted on the reviews about them not aligning when locking but I guess some folk are overly critical!!



On Amazon? I flicked through the negative reviews to see if there was any consistency which may point out a genuine problem but it just looked like the occasional gripe about random stuff.


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## Roberto Flintofski

billw said:


> On Amazon? I flicked through the negative reviews to see if there was any consistency which may point out a genuine problem but it just looked like the occasional gripe about random stuff.


Think I will take a punt then !


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