# BS400 Bandsaw Upper Guide Question/Concern



## Tetsuaiga (22 Oct 2016)

I was wondering if anyone else has this bandsaw what do you think of the upper blade guide?

When setting it I never guide know what's right as the contact disc is mounted in such a way that it freely pivots, so it's not parallel to the blade. To me that seems very strange as if you move the disc toward the saw and it only contacts at the point it's pivoting towards it doesn't give support as it can freely orient back even when the guide is locked down. 

Maybe the paper trick is the only way you can set these right?

Ive been considering switching to normal roller bearing system as I never feel I know that they're set correctly, there's doesn't seem to be anything available unless you modify the rod fixture.


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## pops92 (22 Oct 2016)

Hi 
I have the BS 300e which has the same guide system as the 400. Like you I don't like the system with the disc's.
They just don't seem right if you know what I mean !!
But setting them as shown with in the video I got with it,does seem to work fine. 
Don't like the system at all on 3/16" blade I have but as yet I am still on the learning curve with this band saw.
So may be me. :?: :?:


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## Tetsuaiga (22 Oct 2016)

Hm I forgot about the dvd, I think I still have it so I better take a look.


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## woodpig (22 Oct 2016)

I never liked the guides on my BS300E. There were alternative guides available with normal bearings but even one of these had the thrust bearing mounted the wrong way round to my way of thinking. I thought this somewhat odd as the standard lower thrust bearing on the BS300E is a conventional type and works absolutely fine. Its the only one I haven't replaced. Luckily I have the tools to make my own guides.


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## bigbob1 (23 Oct 2016)

I have the BS350 and the guides are the same its a nice BS but there is too much stuff around the guides which makes it difficult to see what exactly is going on especially the lower guides. When adjusting the upper guide I have the rise and fall lock knob tightened.


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## pollys13 (23 Oct 2016)

Random Orbital Bob has a big Record bandsaw don't know if the BS400 though, looks about the same size as mine 16 inch, but a different make.


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## undergroundhunter (23 Oct 2016)

I have a BS400 and I know what you mean its a bit of a strange setup really. 

Matt


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## pike (23 Oct 2016)

I've found that with a good blade and enough tension, I never need to be piece of paper close anyway. I just get as close as I can visually and then run it to check it's not hitting anywhere.

woodpig needs to go into production, I think he'd have quite a few orders


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## Tetsuaiga (23 Oct 2016)

Thanks for all the replies.

Like you Pike i've had perfectly good results with the bandsaw, despite probably pushing it pretty far resawing 23cm sycamore. I did only just realise the rise fall mechanism on mine hadn't been calibrated at all, something i've only just sorted out after having it for a long time. The angle was quite badly off so the guide would change its back/forward position depending on its height.


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## pike (23 Oct 2016)

Yes that's exactly the issue I had initially. There's probably a thread about it here somewhere


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## Tetsuaiga (23 Oct 2016)

That's interesting you had the issue too, it seems strange such a simple thing would be overlooked. 

I didn't even know how you adjusted or if you even could until looking around and finding the grub adjustment screws inside.


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## Random Orbital Bob (23 Oct 2016)

pollys13":2dvp7o2v said:


> Random Orbital Bob has a big Record bandsaw don't know if the BS400 though, looks about the same size as mine 16 inch, but a different make.



This was the thread I started way back to document my early experiences with setting up the BS400 and taking it through the first cuts. It has been added to off and on many times so it's worth a read to soak up many other people's experiences.

topic78828.html


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## Alexam (23 Oct 2016)

I have the BS400 and dont have a problem at all, although I have not looked that closely recently. When setting the thrust bearing, the adjustment is a bit difficult due to the fact that when tightening it up, it tends to move a little forward and that could be improved. However when setting the blade changes, I do spend time to ensure that the blade runs without any guide or thrust wheels moving at all and dont bother with the paper thickness. After all, the guides are only to bump the blade back if it rund off course. The guides that woodpig has made are far superior and I would love to have them, but can manage with the Record ones and my Carter Stabilizer for smaller blades.
Malcolm

Where are yoiu located in the UK Tetsuaiga ?


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## Random Orbital Bob (23 Oct 2016)

I agree Woodpig's own after market design is a set of tooling I suspect there may be a small but active market for.


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## Wizard9999 (23 Oct 2016)

I think a few, including myself, would love some of Woodpig's guides. But if I recall when somebody enquired he said they just take too much time to make for it to be worth his while. Shame.

Terry.


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## pike (23 Oct 2016)

I've got this exact same problem too. I need to take it out and check but I'm guessing it's because the screw digs a hole in the thrust bearing arm which it then wants to slip into when you tighten. My guess is it's just not that strong and you need to not tighten too much for it (which is counter intuitive for something that is supposed to be accurately positioned).

I do like the saw, just a few things like this are a shame.



Alexam":2h2as1zp said:


> When setting the thrust bearing, the adjustment is a bit difficult due to the fact that when tightening it up, it tends to move a little forward and that could be improved.


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## Tetsuaiga (23 Oct 2016)

I'm in Buckinghamshire Alexam. I've fixed the problem with the rise mechanism now after some fiddling.

I'm not sure if there are any guides on the carter website that would be suitable, they seem to have quite a large range. The guides do work of course, just setting them is a bit weird.


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## pike (23 Oct 2016)

Tetsuaiga, going back to your original question, I think I agree with you that the guides are sloppy. Although I'm wondering if you have a more significant problem?

When you say they "freely pivot and give no support" do you mean they move a few mm (which I think is probably still doing the job) or perhaps you have an actually faulty and loose guide?

To be sure, are you talking about the thrust bearing behind the blade or the roller guides either side?


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## woodpig (23 Oct 2016)

I also have a slight error when moving the top guides up or down but it's only small so I haven't bothered trying to correct it. I also get round the problem though by just moving the whole guide assembly backwards or forwards. This is much easier if you replace the screw that locks the guide mounting rod with a small Bristol Locking Lever. It's another small improvement. I'll post a picture.


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## Tetsuaiga (24 Oct 2016)

It's just the side ones pike, I'll try and post a picture tomorrow to show. I have actually wondered if maybe they're meant to be the way they are so it might be good to have someone else see, but yes it's only a few mm really


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## Richard863 (24 Oct 2016)

Got rid of these sloppy blade side bearing discs and turned up some lignum vitae dowel to fit. Works a treat in resaw and veneer mode.

Richard


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## pike (24 Oct 2016)

Tetsuaiga":wyvajg5r said:


> It's just the side ones pike, I'll try and post a picture tomorrow to show. I have actually wondered if maybe they're meant to be the way they are so it might be good to have someone else see, but yes it's only a few mm really



Yeah I find mine are loose and tilt maybe a couple of mm so it's hard to line them up parallel to the blade and just not touching. I'm sure there are better more accurate guide systems around. I'd be interested if there was a upgrade option for the BS400 but I just make sure it's not touching and make do. Happy to compare though as maybe yours are even worse.


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## woodpig (24 Oct 2016)

Picture as promised.


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## pike (24 Oct 2016)

Good idea that, woodpig!


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## pike (24 Oct 2016)

You can just about see (if you click the pic) that the guides are leaning in at the top and are wider and farther from the blade at the bottom (especially the one on the right). All I can do is make sure they are not touching at the top which is the nearest to the blade because of the looseness. I imagine this is what you're talking about Tetsuaiga. It's only a couple of mm but not having owned any other bandsaw, I'd have thought decent guides are more accurate.


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## woodpig (24 Oct 2016)

I think these may fit Record Bandsaws with the correct adaptor.

http://www.carterproducts.com/band-saw- ... uides/2300


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## Alexam (24 Oct 2016)

Very interesting to be reading all this information, which helps to build a good record of exactly how things work and how they may be improved in some cases. I feel lucky that I have not had too many problems and even though I am aware of better guides being available, in my case I don't really need it. The Stabilizer is different as I use it a lot and being only a top guide, with no lower guide to deal with, it's a lot easier.

All stored for future reference and thanks to so many of you.
Malcolm


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## cansdale (24 Oct 2016)

I removed the silly side guide discs from my BS350 and replaced them with ebony blocks, works for me. I also replaced the screw that holds the back guide disc, that didn't work to well although the minuscule movement doesn't seem to matter. I then replaced the back guide disc with a disc i cut from a ceramic sink draining board, beefier than the old disc and works better.


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## loftyhermes (24 Oct 2016)

Maybe these might fit, http://www.bedfordsaw.co.uk/blade-guide ... 6-bandsaws


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## woodpig (24 Oct 2016)

Or this?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-hb ... 0wod7yID5Q


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## pike (24 Oct 2016)

I like the look of the axminster guides. Looks like they are for a 350 size (assuming thats similar to the record 350). I wonder if anyone has tried them on a BS400.


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## Wizard9999 (24 Oct 2016)

pike":3py3cpr5 said:


> I like the look of the axminster guides. Looks like they are for a 350 size (assuming thats similar to the record 350). I wonder if anyone has tried them on a BS400.



Well at the start of the thread somebody said the 300 guides were the same as the 400, so would expect 350 to be the same if that is the case.

Reading this thread with interest as I also seem to struggle with the sorts of issues described here. I wonder if a call to Record to explain that there are a number of users experiencing the same issues with their guide system would yield advice and / or support in some way. Maybe Record can advise on what a compatible upgrade may be. If they think there is a market for it they may even consider doing something themselves.

Terry.


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## Tetsuaiga (24 Oct 2016)

Pike, your photo is just what I was getting at. I'm not sure if mine is any more off angle, possibly very slightly.

The axminster guide set looks like its probably for smaller machines, the carter2300 looks good but I think the hole which accepts the rear rod would need enlarging, however theres no space to do that as the block is so small.

Guides do look fairly simple to make, although I imagine one of those milling machines would be helpful. Might be easier buying a carter2300 and trying to modify it..


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## Wizard9999 (24 Oct 2016)

I decided to have a little look on the Record Power website to see if I can get any clues to a way forward. Does make me chuckle, this from the description of the BS400:
"We believe our guides, similar to those found on industrial machines costing many times more, give even greater support and easier adjustment than ever. When these guides are compared to ball race guides it is clear that they provide far more support. They cover around 3/4” of the blade side rather than the pinpoint contact that ball race guides provide."

OK I think, so these are actually a better are they. But then I looked at the similar capacity but £400 more expensive, so presumably better Startrite 403. The description here says:
"The side guides are industrial ball race bearing guides which offer a good surface area to resist blade twist, having easy and precise adjustment for simple setting."

Hmmmmmmm

I am wondering whether the Startrite guides would fit the BS400.

Terry.


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## woodpig (24 Oct 2016)

The guides on this look like they might be a close fit?

http://www.warco.co.uk/img/pdf/warco-wo ... review.pdf


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## pike (24 Oct 2016)

If that was green with yellow writing I'd struggle to spot the difference. Except the better guides 



woodpig":kzr0a5jq said:


> The guides on this look like they might be a close fit?
> 
> http://www.warco.co.uk/img/pdf/warco-wo ... review.pdf


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## Random Orbital Bob (24 Oct 2016)

Marketing people I'm afraid...their product is (oddly enough) always the "best". Round 'em up, stick 'em in a field and bomb the .......


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## Wizard9999 (24 Oct 2016)

Random Orbital Bob":31lgw7v5 said:


> Marketing people I'm afraid...their product is (oddly enough) always the "best". Round 'em up, stick 'em in a field and bomb the .......



Does RP maintain a completely separate marketing team for Startrite?

Terry.


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## Tetsuaiga (24 Oct 2016)

Thanks woodpig. I've asked warco if they sell the upper blade guide unit and the price. Just have to wait for a reply now.


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## woodpig (25 Oct 2016)

I've just looked at the Record entry level BS250 Bandsaw manual and guess what, it has proper roller bearings top and bottom like the Startrite. :lol:


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## pike (25 Oct 2016)

What!? It has. I just found a review saying it's very easy to adjust and get the guides just kissing the blade...

Which begs the question, why does the BS400 have worse ones.


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## Wizard9999 (25 Oct 2016)

pike":20mgzafz said:


> What!? It has. I just found a review saying it's very easy to adjust and get the guides just kissing the blade...
> 
> Which begs the question, why does the BS400 have worse ones.



Are Record Power pitching up to Harrogate? If so maybe somebody could ask them. To be fair the Record Power has always been to the D&M show when I have been there and he seems a very sensible chap so I would expect if he was asked it would be a sensible conversation rather than just a dismissal.

Terry.


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## Wizard9999 (30 Oct 2016)

Tetsuaiga":3w4c2g7p said:


> Thanks woodpig. I've asked warco if they sell the upper blade guide unit and the price. Just have to wait for a reply now.


Any response from Warco?

Terry.


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## bigbob1 (1 Nov 2016)

This is for the Record BS350 so should fit

http://www.yandles.co.uk/precision-roll ... 350/p14583


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## pike (1 Nov 2016)

Thanks but I'm not so sure it would fit the BS400.

Also it's a slightly odd design.



bigbob1":27u1610y said:


> This is for the Record BS350 so should fit
> 
> http://www.yandles.co.uk/precision-roll ... 350/p14583


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## bigbob1 (1 Nov 2016)

Think it will fit Pike. If you click on the small pictures below the main picture (the pics that give you other views of the product) on the far right picture there is a chart of the maximum blade width and the BS400 is on it but I would drop them an email to be sure.


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## pike (1 Nov 2016)

Cheers Bob. I've always thought if they could sell that set for the BS400 they wouldnt have missed a trick in not listing it. Also I don't understand why the thrust bearing is facing the same direction as the guide bearings.

The ones on the startrite (and oddly the cheapest BS250) look better.


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## woodpig (1 Nov 2016)

Is that the Startrite? Looks like it could fit the BS400. If not directly maybe with an adaptor.


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## pike (1 Nov 2016)

woodpig":1a030zan said:


> Is that the Startrite? Looks like it could fit the BS400. If not directly maybe with an adaptor.



I think the pic is of the 403 Startrite yeah. It would be really useful to know if these worked on a BS400. However, I didn't create this thread and although I agree the BS400 guides aren't great, I don't think I'm at the point where I'd spend money on new ones.


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## Wizard9999 (1 Nov 2016)

I would again suggest that if anyone is going to Harrogate, could they raise this with a Record Power rep and at least ask if the Startrite guides will fit a BS400. Pretty please  .

Terry.


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## paulm (1 Nov 2016)

Why wait till the Harrogate show, phone them tomorrow and ask ?


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## Wizard9999 (1 Nov 2016)

paulm":bmso5v80 said:


> Why wait till the Harrogate show, phone them tomorrow and ask ?


Fair point Paul, my thinking was twofold, first, easier to discuss with the machines in front of you and two, the MD may be there and I find him a very sensible person to speak to.

Terry.


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## Tetsuaiga (1 Nov 2016)

Wizard9999":9cun2plh said:


> Tetsuaiga":9cun2plh said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks woodpig. I've asked warco if they sell the upper blade guide unit and the price. Just have to wait for a reply now.
> ...




I have had one, they wanted to know the part code and a picture. I'm not really sure whats so hard about identifying the upper blade guide on the model but this is what they need first.

I'm not entirely sure how desperate I am to replace the guards, if I could find a easy replacement cheaply enough i'd strongly consider it.


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## Alexam (2 Nov 2016)

Photo is not a problem, this one has been reduced in size. 




Part Number 
SBS400-203 Upper Guide Support Block
SBS400-262 Upper Blade Guide Support*
SBS400-263 Rear Blade Guide Assembly*
SBS400-264 Rear Blade Guide Assembly

Malcolm


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## scgwhite (2 Nov 2016)

I got fed up with the hopeless guides on my BS400 so rattled out an improved version. All parts were scrap bits of oak - a harder wood might have been better for the guides but these seem to work well after a soak in 3in1 oil.



Bandsaw guides by Scgwhite, on Flickr



Bandsaw guides by Scgwhite, on Flickr


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## pike (2 Nov 2016)

Well done scgwhite. You shouldn't need to do this on a £1000 bandsaw but those look easier to use!


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## Wizard9999 (2 Nov 2016)

Wizard9999":2pz9cqpk said:


> paulm":2pz9cqpk said:
> 
> 
> > Why wait till the Harrogate show, phone them tomorrow and ask ?
> ...


I just spoke to the Record Power technical department, they say the Startrite 403 guide assembly won't fit the BS400 but were unable to explain precisely why. This is why I think a conversation at an event like Harrogate where both machines and senior Record Power staff will likely be there is a better answer. It maybe they won't fit, but the modification required to make them fit is minor.

Sadly the Harrogate show is just too long a trek for me.

Terry.


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## woodpig (2 Nov 2016)

I'm surprised they say it won't fit. I wouldn't be at all surprised if no one has actually tried to fit the Startrite bearings on a BS400, why would they? The actual fitting to both machines looks virtually identical as far as I can see.


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## bigbob1 (2 Nov 2016)

Would also be interested to see if the Startrite would fit for my BS350 you are right to be anoyed about spending £1000 on your BS Pike and they do not put good guides in I paid £699 for my 350 and have the same problem and yet the guides on the 250 are proper roller bearing type it is a pity they do not fit our saws. 
Thats a good work around scgwhite do you leave your blade gaurd off all the time or do others operate their saws without the gaurd must admit I have been tempted.


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## pike (2 Nov 2016)

To be fair it was clear what sort of guides it comes with when I bought it. I just didn't know enough about bandsaws to have a preference.

The guard is still on mine.


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## Alexam (2 Nov 2016)

scgwhite, I am rather surprised that you felt the guides were not working correctly, but if you bought your bandsaw from new, you do have a 5 year guarantee and could rely on that to get replacements. However, by changing the guides to the woodden ones, you will invalidate your guarantee if anything at all goes wrong with the bandsaw, which does not seem to be a good way to go.

Malcolm


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## Wizard9999 (2 Nov 2016)

woodpig":1sqz4807 said:


> I'm surprised they say it won't fit. I wouldn't be at all surprised if no one has actually tried to fit the Startrite bearings on a BS400, why would they? The actual fitting to both machines looks virtually identical as far as I can see.



I don't disagree with you Woodpig which is why I am very much hoping somebody who goes to Harrogate can take a look and pick up with RP on it. Even if they don't fit off the peg there may need to be minimal modification.

Terry.


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## woodpig (2 Nov 2016)

We really need someone with a Startrite 403 who's willing to take pictures of the bearings from several angles and take some measurements. This of course assumes that Record don't cop the strop and refuse to sell the "upgrade" to Record Bandsaw owners. They could turn round and say you should have bought the Startrite in the first place if you wanted professional guides.


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## Wizard9999 (2 Nov 2016)

Or somebody needs to be somewhere that has both a BS400 and a 403, then they can just take the guides off the 403 and see if they fit on the BS400. That way the first question would be answered for sure. In terms of RP's willingness to sell 403 spare parts surely they can't know what they are sing bought for? But to the point above, presumably it invalidates the 5 year warranty.

Terry.


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## scgwhite (2 Nov 2016)

> Thats a good work around scgwhite do you leave your blade gaurd off all the time or do others operate their saws without the gaurd must admit I have been tempted.



The blade guard needs a little chop to fit with this upgraded guide, which I've not got round to yet.



> scgwhite, I am rather surprised that you felt the guides were not working correctly, but if you bought your bandsaw from new, you do have a 5 year guarantee and could rely on that to get replacements. However, by changing the guides to the woodden ones, you will invalidate your guarantee if anything at all goes wrong with the bandsaw, which does not seem to be a good way to go.



Thanks Malcolm. I rather suspect that if I caller RP and said 'these guides on my £1k bandsaw are a poor, cheap design - could I have something that actually works?' I could predict what the answer would be. Perhaps I'd get another set of the same old wobbly, squeaky guides that don't allow sufficient close adjustment without rubbing on the blade. Much easier to make something that functions well - indeed, I can't see RP denying a warranty claim on the basis of a modification - adding my guides can't be any different to adding aftermarket guides?


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## no idea (2 Nov 2016)

pike":1ea6w9i6 said:


> Thanks but I'm not so sure it would fit the BS400.
> 
> Also it's a slightly odd design.
> 
> ...



These do fit the BS400 - I didn't buy mine from Yandles, and I can't remember the name of the place that I did buy them from (there was an advert for them in one of the woodworking magazines, possibly Furniture and Cabinetmaking, some time back). 

However, having had these on my BS400 for a period of time, I felt that they didn't provide any benefit over the standard setup and have now reverted to the standard setup. It did take me a little while to set it up well, but since learning (from trial and error) what adjustments are critical for what blade, I am very happy with the standard blade guides. I keep meaning to try the bearing guides again but am happy enough with the standard guides to think why bother.


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## Alexam (3 Nov 2016)

The BS400 guides are fine and work well down to a 1/4" blade and as long as you are happy with them, a change may not improve anything at all. If anyone going to a sho could take the 403 guides with them, I'm sure the Record rep wouldn't mind seeing if they fit. Or indeed any other pair of owners locally, I would be happy to help out for anyone near me. It's always nice to get together with another member to chat.
Malcolm


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## Tetsuaiga (6 Nov 2016)

Alexam":sfutrcwi said:


> Photo is not a problem, this one has been reduced in size.
> 
> Part Number
> SBS400-203 Upper Guide Support Block
> ...




Thanks a lot Malcolm =).

Like i've said before I don't think the guides don't work properly, but i'm always trying to make improvements wherever I can even if they're small. A lot of the issue with the guide is just the peculiarity with setting them to the right place.


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## Alexam (7 Nov 2016)

If you were to put your location on your Profile information, you may be nearby someone who could show or help you with any problems you have. That is one of the benefits of the UKW forum, lots of members being prepared to help others in a practical way. Just putting (UK) is not so helpful for you, or others who may offer to pop round if you wished.

Malcolm


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## woodpig (18 Nov 2016)

I had a quick look at the Startrite 403 and the Record 400 today at Yandles. The guides (mounting block) on both machines are attached in exactly the same manner - a rod clamped in a square block on the bottom of the guide post. Whether the rod is the same size or not I couldn't tell but it looked pretty similar. I also couldn't tell if the offset between the mounting rod and the blade is the same or not but once again it looked pretty close to me. I didn't bother asking the guy from Record power as he didn't seem very knowledgable judging by the answer I got on another matter. :wink:


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## pops92 (18 Nov 2016)

Your surely didn't go without your vernier Woodpig I am surprised. We could have this cracked in fell swoop. :wink:


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## woodpig (18 Nov 2016)

It was the last thing on my mind when I set out this morning... In fact it wouldn't have occurred to me at all except the two machines were parked next to each other!


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## pike (19 Nov 2016)

Gents, looks like it does fit. With some adjustments. Photo to follow  you'd need to remove one of the double side rollers on each side and have it supplied with shorter bolts. The nice record bloke tried it for me at the Harrogate show.

I didn't actually check which bandsaw they were from but it was a startrite.


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## woodpig (19 Nov 2016)

The bearings did look quite large on the 403. I'm guessing maybe 10 x 30 x 9? Surprised you'd need to take off one set but fitting shorter bolts isn't a problem, plenty on eBay once you know the size. They look like M6.


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## pike (19 Nov 2016)

It's just that it has double side guides and unless you run the blade almost hanging off the front to clear them you'd need to take one off. The record man suggested he could supply shorter bolts.

I don't think I can get photo off my phone until I'm home tomorrow.


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## pike (20 Nov 2016)

Startrite upper guides on a BS400


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## woodpig (20 Nov 2016)

Excellent! Just a matter if RP will make them available for those that want them at reasonable cost?

I'm now wondering if the back bearing can be replaced with one with a snap ring groove so that it could be used like the Carter "Stabilizer" with the side guides removed?


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## Wizard9999 (12 Mar 2017)

pike":2ybqv9vk said:


> Startrite upper guides on a BS400


I missed the last couple of posts on this thread, but was reminder of it by a current thread. Looks like you had some luck, but am I the only one who can't see the picture you posted?

Terry.


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## woodpig (12 Mar 2017)

No, I can't see it either. Perhaps he can re-post?


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## pike (13 Mar 2017)

I stopped using the web host which used to have my images. Here's the pic again. You can see you'd have to remove the front bearing on each side for the BS400 (I think the whole block is as far back as it will go, in this photo) but other than that it does seem to fit.






Carl.


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## Wizard9999 (13 Mar 2017)

pike":2i9begmx said:


> I stopped using the web host which used to have my images. Here's the pic again. You can see you'd have to remove the front bearing on each side for the BS400 (I think the whole block is as far back as it will go, in this photo) but other than that it does seem to fit.
> 
> 
> 
> Carl.



Thanks for that Carl. Think RP will be at Yandles next month so will try to collar them on the topic. Be interesting to see how they respond as to whether they would consider it an upgrade and if they would sell the parts separately.

Terry.


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## pike (13 Mar 2017)

No prob, Terry. The RP bloke I spoke to (the one in their bandsaw web site videos) didn't seem to think it would be a problem buying it from them for use on a BS400. He didn't know how much it would be though.


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## woodpig (13 Mar 2017)

Thanks for the picture Carl.
I think it's hard to justify putting bearings like this on their professional range _and_ on the cheapest Record power bandsaw but not on all the others? Cost notwithstanding of course.


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## pike (13 Mar 2017)

Agreed, although I can manage without, it's a shame the BS400 doesn't have them as standard.


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## Wizard9999 (13 Mar 2017)

woodpig":zs6xegjq said:


> Thanks for the picture Carl.
> I think it's hard to justify putting bearings like this on their professional range _and_ on the cheapest Record power bandsaw but not on all the others? Cost notwithstanding of course.



Yes, this seems a very odd decision that opens them up to all the questions being raised on here.

Terry.


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## woodpig (13 Mar 2017)

There's no doubt that the standard RP guides do work and some folks are quite happy with them. I hated them on my BS300E and found them awkward to adjust, bulky and quite frankly not very well made. The two side discs in particular don't line up with each other, not sure if it's a bad casting or poorly machined. Record Power have clearly thought better of putting this design of guides on their Professional range of Bandsaws.


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## transatlantic (13 Mar 2017)

I have the BS300. I took apart the upper guide system yesterday to see what caused the slop, and it looks like it would be quite easy to fix, you just need to grind/file a bit of material away. As that would void any kind of warranty, I think I'll leave it for now though until it actually causes an issue.

It is my understanding that bandsaw guides are a fallback mechanism to catch the blade should something go wrong (too much unexpected pressure). In normal practice, the blade should not be in contact with the guides, so a little play should not be an issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.

However, I do find the whole system a PITA to configure. The blade guard gets in the way and really needs to be removed to set things up property, which makes things even more frustrating as it's also a PITA to get on/off. I don't like how the guide assembly fits onto the rise mechanism either. As it's only connected at one point, off center, its easily rotated, so not very stable.

Has anyone shortened the blade guard so that the lower assembly is always visible?


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## Alexam (13 Mar 2017)

It is my understanding that bandsaw guides are a fallback mechanism to catch the blade should something go wrong (too much unexpected pressure). In normal practice, the blade should not be in contact with the guides, so a little play should not be an issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.
That's spot on.

I have removed the lower part of the blade guard to make it easier to see whats going on and it has improved matters on the BS400. *Thats the lower part of the top guard*
Malcolm


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## Random Orbital Bob (13 Mar 2017)

Don't forget the blade guarding on the bottom is ridiculously over zealous and is in fact far more to do with H&S regs than any sensible functional requirement. I removed mine during the setup of the bandsaw from new. If someone can explain to me how a part of my body or clothing is going to travel the 10" from where I'm standing into the path of the blade at about thigh height, I'll happily put it back on!!

So, all I'm saying is that clearly, any risks you take with safety measures are your own decision and you need to feel comfortable with that. For me though, it went in the junk pile straight away.


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## transatlantic (13 Mar 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":193k8c6d said:


> Don't forget the blade guarding on the bottom is ridiculously over zealous and is in fact far more to do with H&S regs than any sensible functional requirement. I removed mine during the setup of the bandsaw from new. If someone can explain to me how a part of my body or clothing is going to travel the 10" from where I'm standing into the path of the blade at about thigh height, I'll happily put it back on!!
> 
> So, all I'm saying is that clearly, any risks you take with safety measures are your own decision and you need to feel comfortable with that. For me though, it went in the junk pile straight away.



I removed that one too, but I was actually talking about the top one.


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## Random Orbital Bob (13 Mar 2017)

Okey...doke...note to self....don't scan read threads!!


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## pike (13 Mar 2017)

transatlantic":18m6w607 said:


> In normal practice, the blade should not be in contact with the guides, so a little play should not be an issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.



This makes sense for the side guides but does it for the rear? I know the side guides should only be nudging the blade back if you twist it a bit too much, but surely the rear guide is regularly in contact in normal practice? Am I doing something wrong if my rear guide is spinning and in contact more often than not? Surely if its set very close to the back of the blade as it should be, then any pressure at all from a cut means it is in contact?


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## woodpig (13 Mar 2017)

Yes you're correct Pike. As you apply pressure with the cut the blade is bound to come into contact with the thrust bearing. In fact the "Stabilizer" guide sold in the USA for narrow blades is actually pre-loaded, there is no gap.


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## Richard863 (13 Mar 2017)

Hi
Congratulations you have discovered what a k r a p i design that part of the BS is. I had the same problem with the 350S. I eventually solved it by turning a piece of lignum vitae to the 2 diameters of the upper and lower bearing holder and initially have them touching the blade while running then backing them off the thickness of a cigarette rollup paper. This solved my problem even with resawing verneers. Someone is bound to say heat generation on the blade, but there isnt any even when touching. When I did my apprenticeship in the mid fifties all our bandsaws didn't have bearing guides like todays breed.
Good luck Richard


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## no idea (13 Mar 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":3hyzso12 said:


> Don't forget the blade guarding on the bottom is ridiculously over zealous and is in fact far more to do with H&S regs than any sensible functional requirement. I removed mine during the setup of the bandsaw from new. If someone can explain to me how a part of my body or clothing is going to travel the 10" from where I'm standing into the path of the blade at about thigh height, I'll happily put it back on!!
> 
> So, all I'm saying is that clearly, any risks you take with safety measures are your own decision and you need to feel comfortable with that. For me though, it went in the junk pile straight away.



Interestingly I took mine off when I bought my bandsaw but once my 3 year old son took some interest in the shed I ended up putting them back on. I don't use the bandsaw if he is in there with me but I realised even a static blade could cause his hands/fingers damage if he got a bit too curious (he's at the perfect height to see under the bandsaw table). It does make guide adjustment a bit more awkward but in my situation I'm happy to accept this. They will probably come off when he is older and understands the risks in the shed.


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## Tetsuaiga (15 Mar 2017)

I'm having a bit better luck with a new strategy, i run the bandsaw then move the guides in. I find I need to have them in contact, but not fully in contact, that probably wont make sense if you don't have experience of the guards. I might get around to just trying something like hardwood like Richard had done, but theyre doing better than they were before now.


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## Random Orbital Bob (16 Mar 2017)

no idea":1zhccyqx said:


> Random Orbital Bob":1zhccyqx said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget the blade guarding on the bottom is ridiculously over zealous and is in fact far more to do with H&S regs than any sensible functional requirement. I removed mine during the setup of the bandsaw from new. If someone can explain to me how a part of my body or clothing is going to travel the 10" from where I'm standing into the path of the blade at about thigh height, I'll happily put it back on!!
> ...



That's a really interesting perspective on the lower guides that I hadn't considered. I wonder if accidents to children were the driver behind the regulation in the first place?? It's not relevant in my situation but it's worth heeding in the circumstances you describe. Well said for bringing that up.


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## woodpig (16 Mar 2017)

Providing guarding to protect a three year old that shouldn't be in a workshop anyway is a bit extreme, even for the nanny state.


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## pike (16 Mar 2017)

Yeah H&S for woodworking machines is for the user, not for little people who can't operate it anyway.


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## Tetsuaiga (18 Mar 2017)

I have to admit to cutting myself on the blade under the table. I feel quite stupid for it but since then feel sure it wont happen again. Luckily it was only just a graze.


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