# Retraining at a (slightly) older age.



## BearTricks (30 Nov 2020)

Evening everyone.

I tried to type something lengthy but my phone isn't having it so I'll try to keep it brief. 

Realistically what are my options for retraining in a trade in my early 30s? I'm currently a Civil Servant and while the pay and pension are fine (but far from the massive renumerations for sitting round doing nothing that people think) I don't think I can sit in front of a computer and deal with the hoops, bureaucracy and people with an inflated opinion of themselves for the next 40 years. 

I'm currently spending most of my time when I'm not working doing what small amount of woodworking and leatherworking I can in the space I have. We're buying a new house next year so after that I'm thinking of taking an evening course and retraining. Joiner would be my preferred option but I'd be open to anything that's in demand. 

I'm fully aware how lucky I am to have a stable wage especially at the moment so don't think I'm taking that for granted. I also have some insight in to employment and training as part of my job and know that options aren't great if you're not young and cheap enough for it to be worth hiring. Is there a reliable route in to employment or self-employment from taking evening classes? 

If the answer is no then that's understandable, but I'd appreciate any insight. Feel free to hurl abuse at the naive uni graduate while you're at it.


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## BearTricks (30 Nov 2020)

Bumping the thread since I finally got it to post (if we're allowed to do that). 

Also happy to open it up to discussion on trades vs office jobs and the education required.


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## Terry - Somerset (30 Nov 2020)

If you are buying a new house, is this really a good time to put your income at risk.

Sadly with unemployment likely to increase over the next year due to Covid, the competition for training and jobs will be difficult.

On a more positive note, I am very aware that it is all too easy to put off these changes. 

I spent the first 20 years in the private sector, and the last in the public sector. Every time I considered a career change in my 30s and 40s there were always good reasons not to take the risk - mortgage. kids, etc.

So before doing anything you should plan not to move house with all the extra costs that probably entails. If the career change truly works out you can always change the plan!


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## billw (30 Nov 2020)

I lasted two months as a consultant in the public sector before the weight of watching my tax money subsidise people sitting around doing nothing broke my spirit.

The simple answer to this is to consider whether the sums work out. If they don’t, are there lifestyle changes you could realistically make and commit to that change the answer? If no, risk > reward likely rules.

Stable wages are going to be a thing of the past soon, but so is the concept of tying yourself to one employer, to a great degree. The civil service might the only route to stability.


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## Blackswanwood (30 Nov 2020)

Being in your early thirties is not a barrier to retraining but as Terry has indicated it probably involves some lifestyle choices.

Many big employers are open to flexible working arrangements that may enable you to spend time retraining. I know someone who worked in financial services and wanted to become a gas fitter. They changed their hours from a 35 to 32 hour week with Fridays off so they could do a course that was one day in college (Friday) and a mixture of online and evening classes. He now services boilers for a living. That may be an extreme example that involved a forward thinking and enlightened employer but if you don’t ask you don’t get. 

Without downplaying the practical considerations if you don’t feel fulfilled and happy in the Civil Service do something about it - work takes up too much of our lives to allow it to be a chore.

I’m sure someone with more knowledge of the qualifications and routes to getting them will be along with some more practical advice!


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## Sandyn (30 Nov 2020)

I think this is a modern disease. I have had about 20 contract jobs and 4 permanent jobs where I was pretty happy, some where I couldn't wait to get back to work on a Monday...sad really! 1 of the permanent job I really disliked the people I worked with, probably got to the point of almost hating people, which is totally out of character for me, but some places have a toxic atmosphere which seeps into your soul and can cast a dark shadow over your whole life. Working with arrogant disrespectful people, people who try to bully you by using their position to get their own way.
Often, it's not the job, it's the people. That still doesn't make anything easier for you, but you aren't alone. It's not you, it's the work environment these days.
I would say, YES! you can find a new career from part time education, but you have to plan the timescale and not jump ship too early.
You can learn at any age. I did my Masters degree when I was in my 50's. Nowadays there isn't the same age structure in jobs, but if you are starting from the bottom in a job, you will take a salary and pension hit.
You are in a stable job, which is really valuable in these very uncertain times. Is moving departments an option, or have you decided you want to have a complete change? Have you considered looking for contract position using your skill base? the mind set is completely different when you are not 'employed' and earning a lot more. You don't get involved in office politics, but these days, I think it's more difficult to find contract work.
As others have suggested, look at the possibility of working shorter hours, perhaps a 4 day week, then dedicate the other days to acquiring a new skill, but I have no idea about which one provides the best route to self employment and it might be a case of the grass is greener on the other side and you will replace one set of problems for another? I would hold on to your current job for as long as possible, but perhaps start selling things as a side business. Leather working and woodwork has scope for producing items you can sell on the internet. Look around local craft shops and see what sells, then start producing in your spare time. Just try it. Don't sit and wonder, try. If it fails, try something else, but chase your dream. What it will give you is sight of a possible way out of where you are. Don't give up your job until you have certainty of being able to survive on your new skill. You don't say if you are married/have kids or plan to, so think carefully of the financial aspects. It won't be easy, but that will test your motivation. Good luck with whatever you choose!!


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## thetyreman (30 Nov 2020)

.


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## Glitch (1 Dec 2020)

After 44 years of office work I'm now 18 months into retirement able to pursue stuff I want to do.
I found myself saying 'I wish I'd pursued a trade' because I enjoy my hobbies more than my job. I'm frustrated because I don't have the skill levels I want.
Listening to mates who have trade skills but no pension, fluctuating income, no savings, prospect of having to work beyond normal retirement date brings me back to Earth.
When I was 21 I gave up well paid work thinking I could make a living doing up cars - that lasted a couple of months. Turning a hobby into a job brings new pressures and it may lose its appeal. It takes years to become truly skilled.

Do you really want a career change, or do you just want a better work/life balance? Would you be happy spending all your time trying to make a living with your new skills?

The financial risks are high, especially in the current climate. Can your partner pays the bills and support you through your training and getting your new career off the ground?

Blackswanwood and Sandyn offered sensible advice - think about cutting your Civil Service work hours to fit in the retraining? Do they offer the opportunity for a sabbatical so you can take a full time break to retrain with a chance to return after 6 months or a year?

I admire people who chuck in the 9-5 life to pursue their dreams. It is certainly possible but it comes with risks. Weigh up the risks carefully before you take the leap.


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## Ollie78 (1 Dec 2020)

If you are in your 30s that is still young enough to have time to get good at it. 
Ideally you should try and "train" whilst still employed so you don't have to leap into the unknown so much. 
Make no mistake you will likely be poorer, at least for a while. Try to get something going part time first maybe.

Personally, I know I could make more money doing something else but I would be 100% more grumpy about it. I have no pension and will have to work till I am dead but its probably too late to care at this point.

Happiness is more important than money.

Ollie


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## Keith 66 (1 Dec 2020)

I spent my working life as a boatbuilder, a trade that is immensely safisfying but notoriously ill paid, most of the self emloyed blokes like me that managed to stay in it for the long term had a good woman next to them in a steady public sector job! Teachers, environmental health officers, other council employees etc.
Self employment is great when the work is rolling in but all too often there will be gaps & then its catch up time, usually when "the man" has his hand out for money. Workshop landlord, Accountant, taxman, insurance, all come first in the queue to be paid. The boss? is usually last!
If you can figure out a niche market all well & good but you have to be lucky to find something that hasnt been done before.
In my case a legacy has meant i have a pension & i thank my lucky stars to be in this position.


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## pe2dave (1 Dec 2020)

Rather than (re) training, how about looking round for a 'master craftsman' to take you on as apprentice?
Yes, you'd need a.n.other financial input to the house, but (IMHO) you'd learn more than from a college course?

Finding one could be hard.
Finding a good one (that you can work with) even harder.

Could provide the rewards you are looking for though? Upside for the master craftsman, he/she gets an adult
instead of a teenager who doesn't really want to be there?

Just a thought.


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## Cabinetman (1 Dec 2020)

My thoughts for what they’re worth, train in your new workshop after you move house, perhaps a Night course ( if they still exist ). Start working weekends – a shelf to fit an awkward space type of work, it pays a whole lot better than making things and trying to sell them. After a year or two? When the work is coming in by reputation and piling up then is the time to give up your main job. But just remember you pay for your own pension and when you go on holiday there’s nothing coming in! Ian Good luck.


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## Spectric (1 Dec 2020)

Hi

I know what you mean about life in an office where people will trample others just to climb an extra rung and luckily for me as an engineer you reach a point where all options up meant leaving engineering behind and becoming management so I did what I liked rather than "progress". In these times of economic uncertaintity it may be wise to put up with your regular income job but take a good look at your finances with an aim to put yourself in a better position for when you do make the jump. Simple things if you can are start paying a little more off your mortgage so you get ahead and reduce the term and clear any debt.

In the meantime spend more time doing some woodwork and think if taking on a self employed manual job is actually better than your regular income job where you always know you will be paid and not spend time chasing others just to get paid. 

I think another big problem these days is that good carpenters struggle, people seem to want everything based on cost and not quality so you may end up making items that you personally are not happy with. Some turn to site work where quality is a banned word and speed is everything, I know a furniture maker who now works for Tesco's in management because the money is better and the hours known so think long and hard before chasing a dream and leaving security behind, you are still young and there is plenty of time to make big changes later when you can swallow the risk more easily.


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## pe2dave (1 Dec 2020)

Spectric said:


> I think another big problem these days is that good carpenters struggle, people seem to want everything based on cost and not quality so you may end up making items that you personally are not happy with. Some turn to site work where quality is a banned word and speed is everything, I know a furniture maker who now works for Tesco's in management because the money is better and the hours known so think long and hard before chasing a dream and leaving security behind, you are still young and there is plenty of time to make big changes later when you can swallow the risk more easily.



+1
No is a good answer to such 'price' requests.


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## heimlaga (2 Dec 2020)

There is lots of wisdom in this thread.

Theese days there isn't much money to be made as a joiner. Most startups go bankrupt.
Bigger firms are either forced to get even bigger while automating everything so it can be run by the cheapest unqualified workers or to downscale to one man or two man businesses making a decent living based on workshops and machinery already paid for during better times in the past.

There are certain specialities where one can still get a decent hourly pay for your work but this means you must have contacts so you can get those jobs and you must have a way of fitting out the workshop without loans nor landlords so you can afford to say NO to jobs that are paid below your production costs and then just turn down the heat and turn off the light and close the workshop door and do something else for a while until the next better paying customer turns up.


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## clogs (2 Dec 2020)

Bear Tricks.....
keep the job ur in, get some training in then offer ur services around.....local jobs, gates, shed repairs and a host of other small stuff to get ur confidence up as well as skill levels......
quite often it's good to make something for urself so u can say this is what I do......
then when ur inundated with work u can play the system for a while then jump.....
u dont say what tools / machines u have and or a place to work......
another thing, u'll spend a lot of time running around collecting materials etc.....have u got something to carry 8x4 sheets and big lumps of wood...often bought in 4m lengths......
do some private jobs to get a feel for it.....
getting full time training will bring heartache to ur wallet.....so unless she can bring in enough money to live on forget it.....
a couple of big bills for the house and then the cars could easily wipe u out......
sorry mate, make the best of what ya got and just do the smaller jobs.....
I'm 72, been s/empl all my life and still putting in 6 good days a week.....
it's tough out there in the real world.......sorry


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## xraymtb (2 Dec 2020)

I totally get the office thing but don't kid yourself into thinking that behaviour doesn't exist in every business. No matter where you go, there will always be people willing to climb over you to get to the top. 

I've considered the same as you many times - leaving a reasonably well paying job as a Project Manager to do something with my hands but the reality is you may find its not as enjoyable as a couple of hours on an evening making the things you really want to at a pace that suits. You could end up spending days running 8x4 sheets through a panel saw, dealing with demanding clients (who would make the office bullies look like reasonable individuals), chasing people to pay for the work you have done. I've got a few friends that quit jobs to pursue similar work - they are all now either unemployed or have given up and gone back to where they came from (having lost out in the meantime to those who stayed).

I don't want to sound really negative but be sure you know what you are getting into and what you are giving up before you jump. I work where I do to provide for my family and spend my free time doing what I enjoy without worry. That's not something I would give up easily.


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## jcassidy (2 Dec 2020)

Speaking as someone who hadn't had a stable job in 25 years, when I got a mortgage 2 years ago, and with BREXIT coming at us like an economic wrecking ball, I fled to the stability of a public sector job (with a 40% cut in take-home pay). Yes, the pay cut, the know-it-alls, the back-stabbing, the worker-drones-contributing-zero, are all a total pain. But the steady recession-proof, BREXIT-proof, and COVID-proof salary pays the bills, keeps food on the table, and a roof over our heads.

So I'd think twice about packing in that tedious public sector job, and then think twice again, and if I still wanted to pack it in, I'd go get therapy. 'Cos you're not thinking straight. Maybe post BREXIT when the UK economy is growing strong and loads of people have cash to splash. But now?

Like Glitch above, I know lots of people with massive trade skills or IT skills who raked in the money in the good times, and are now suffering badly and expect to be working in their 'retirement' to supplement the public pension. The only one I know who is relaxed about it, has two houses bought (from a previous time when he was in a high-earning job), and an understanding & patient wife who is in a high-paying job.

Transfer to another office, cut your hours, work from home sometimes - the good thing about the civil service / public sector is the flexibilty.


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## thetyreman (2 Dec 2020)

I disagree completely with others about staying in your job, you need to at least try first and see where it takes you, there's no way you'll ever do it without hard work and a positive mindset, regardless of the economy, which will always have ups and downs.


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## jcassidy (2 Dec 2020)

OK, after mature consideration...
Save up enough to support you and your family for 6 months, take a sabbatical, and go for it. If it works out, tell the boss to get stuffed. If not, you haven't lost anything for giving it a lash.


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## NickDReed (2 Dec 2020)

My 2 pence as someone who did it the other way round. I worked in a creative job (chef) for 15 years. Love cooking, love the creativity of it. Worked my way up and bought my own pub. Made a "living" working for myself for 5 years. Worked for far less than minimum wage in that time and eventually fell out of love with my profession. I am now employed in the public sector. Have a great pension, secure income, I don't work evenings or weekends. I love cooking again. I also have time to pursue other passions like woodworking and DIY.

What I will say is there is something to be said for accepting the thing that earns you money, and the thing you're passionate about don't have to be the same thing.


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## Trainee neophyte (3 Dec 2020)

One of the billionaires (possibly George Soros, but I forget which, precisely) said words to the effect of working for a living is a mug's game - you need to own income producing assets to be wealthy. Being self employed and working an hourly rate is probably the most extreme example of a mug's game. Too difficult and scarey for me to contemplate. 

I was employed for about 10 years until I finally asked "What's in it for me?" The answer being "Not much", I then sold everything I owned and spent three years bumming around Europe in a camper van. By far the best decision I ever made. I now own an income producing asset (well, in former times it was, anyway), and only really work full time for one month of the year, through choice more than necessity. The rest of the year I work 4 or 5 hours a day, or less. Sometimes a lot less.

Opportunities abound, and the hardest, scariest decision is the one to chuck it all in and give it up for a new life. Everything else is easy, because you are then forced to make decisions, but taking the first step is the hardest one you will ever make. My only advice would be that, if you are going to remake your life, go whole hog and really remake it. Life is for living, not frittering away while waiting for your pension. You could do anything, live anywhere, be anyone you want to be. Blue sky thinking outside the box, etc. Carpe jugular.


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## Terry - Somerset (3 Dec 2020)

There have been many studies into the work/leisure balance. The broad conclusion is that stone age man (and modern hunter gatherers) work far less than their industrialised counterparts.

This may be due to an inability to store "wealth" - food decays without refrigeration, banks don't exist. Small communities are internally reliant and "external" trade/barter plays only a small part in day to day activities

A decision to "duck out" in favour of more leisure or discretionary time, and less material reward is entirely reasonable. Providing basic needs are met - water, food, shelter etc - then every thing else is optional.

Being conventionally raised I personally find it difficult to detach myself from conventional aspirations for material and physical possession.

But good luck to those who can break the mould and are prepared to be flexible to react to external circumstances. 

It clearly works for many - why work 5 days a week when 3 days provides sufficient for modest needs. Get used to the idea that your:: 

car will forever be 3rd or 4th hand - but as long it goes ....
house may never have a new kitchen ... unless you make it
holidays may be a luxury 2 weeks, more likely in the UK and tent
meat will be a special treat if you don't become vegetarian
clothes will be Primark, not John Lewis
etc etc
Slightly negative generalities (you could be outstandingly happy and wealthy) but they are all somewhat inconsequential barriers in the grand scheme of things.


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## TRITON (3 Dec 2020)

Im a t/s Butcher, and i retrained as a furniture-maker in about 2000, completing the diploma and other qualifications 4 years later.
In all honesty for a set income i miss the meat trade, and you get to take your work home with you  but for peace of mind and happiness I'm glad i went for it.

I've always felt I should have made it to the Art school or into Architecture, but circumstances are the time dictated the route into work, so the dream fell by the wayside. 
Interesting to note I was 3rd top of my class in a course with a 4 out of 5 failure rate. Possibly a sign of what I should have been doing all those years dismembering animals.


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## Trainee neophyte (3 Dec 2020)

Terry - Somerset said:


> It clearly works for many - why work 5 days a week when 3 days provides sufficient for modest needs. Get used to the idea that your::
> 
> car will forever be 3rd or 4th hand - but as long it goes ....
> house may never have a new kitchen ... unless you make it
> ...


I'm not sure it is quite as bleak as you make out: whilst you may be poor in income, you are rich in time, and opportunity. Trying to live the standard, consumerist lifestyle without abundant cash is tricky, but if you need that sort of lifestyle to feel enriched then you would never want to live a different way in any case. Regarding your list, it is interesting how my take on what is important doesn't quite gell with yours - we have completely different ideas on what are priorities. Luckily, we _are_ all different.


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## DrPhill (3 Dec 2020)

I retrained into programming/software engineer etc in my early 30's. Best move I made. But I was a keen enthusiast before that so it was a lot easier decision.


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## BearTricks (9 Dec 2020)

Thanks for all the measured replies guys.

I've had a bit of a think about it. I'm incredibly unfulfilled in my work but like some of you said, I work from home due to the pandemic, I can be flexible with when I start and finish and I get a bit more time during the day to potter while I'm not spending time travelling about and making small talk at the coffee machine. Funnily enough I've been doing some work on the economy for the past week or so and my conclusion has been that you'd be stupid to leave a job with your feet under the table for the foreseeable. 

I've had a look in to it. I think what I'm going to do is build a proper workshop when we move (space to put up a good quality building or convert a garage is non-negotiable during the house hunt) and see what I can get done in the evenings and weekends with a view to selling bits and pieces and maybe helping friends and family with work.

There's a few evening courses about. 
I might be tempted to do something like Level 2 joinery and carpentry. It looks to be about £1500 for a couple of nights a week for a few months I'll obviously have to do a bit more research in to what exactly you can do with that, but it seems to me like I'd save that in labour costs if it allows me to do some of my own work over the years.


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## Jacob (9 Dec 2020)

Strewth - 'early 30s" is only just out of teenage! My kids are all much older, my grandchildren aren't far behind! You are young enough to follow any career choice you make! You could even take another degree or two and still be in your 30s. 
There's a lot in the 10000 hours idea - this equates to 5 years full time which seems to be about the time it takes for most people to get good at anything. 
I wouldn't get carried away with notions of fine woodworking, bespoke furniture; not many of them about making a living. Instead approach it sideways - maybe do a design course, art college or similar. 
Or just start doing it part time with whatever kit and work space you can muster. i.e."diverge" before you converge on a specific future plan. City and Guilds used to be the classic route to practical craft trades, not sure it it's still with us though.


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## NikNak (10 Dec 2020)

Been there done that... except in my case in reverse. 

I WANTED an office job..!! 

Start at 9 instead of 7...luxury...

Inside desk job all year, nice and cosy...

But the bitching, the back stabbing, your face doesn't fit, incompetent managers along with those perfectly fitted the Dilbert Principle and the Peter Principles (google it)...

Watching graduates with a piece of paper saying they were qualified to do a job making a total fist of it...

I lasted 2 1/2 yrs and chucked it in...

Went back to my tools, but this time more 'forceful' shall we say, and managed to climb the ladder and became joint project leader on some of the biggest wind turbine blade building tooling contracts at the time...

Go back to the bit where i said i wanted an office job... at the time i was single. Do you have the complete backing of your wife/partner.? if not don't even think about it. Because when it goes wrong or there's times when money's short trust me... you'll be the one who gets the blame.

I started doing woodturning maybe 14yrs ago just as a hobby. I like to think i got fairly proficient at it and was able to regularly sell my wares at work or word-of-mouth. People said "these are really good, you should do this for a living..." i laughed inside and just carried on with my job. I've now got bored with my hobby and am selling all the equipment. You may also find you get bored 10-15yrs down the line and start looking for something else..... just saying...


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## --Tom-- (10 Dec 2020)

Find out if you can take a sabbatical. If you can that’s a risk reduced way to give it a go. Otherwise I’d spend the evenings, weekends, holidays building skills, finding what you like making and then trying to build a market for them. When you know you can make x in y hours and sell for z (actually sell, not just try to sell) you’ll have a picture of whether it’s viable.

I got fed up with a job and so quit, went to another job that was somehow worse, so left that and then spent 6 months working out what next. I had built up 12 months of savings so didn’t cause any financial hardship, but did massively stress my relationship as she was still going to work everyday and I wasn’t.
She hated the hours I was doing in the job, but hated the hours I wasn’t doing more!

The workshop time is a hobby and everything I make is either for me, friends or charity. I reckon if I tried to make enough to survive just by making things, i would soon lose the love. Now if it takes 2 hours or 20 it doesn’t really matter.


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## Padster (10 Dec 2020)

If I had my work life over I may choose a different path BUT the truth is that my job affords us the lifestyle we are accustomed to AND despite my complaints about work we like (lifestyle).
It allows us the luxuries and the ability to indulge our hobbies, covid has in a weird way helped I'm unable to travel as much so it allows me more time with to make sawdust and chippings!

I guess what I'm saying is ultimately we each need to decide where our priorities lie and if our hobby would be our hobby if it were our living  

Just my tuppence worth!

Padster


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## Stanleymonkey (11 Dec 2020)

With a house move coming. I would stay in your job! No matter how carefully you have budgeted - fences will blow down, pipes will leak, you'll find problems and you will go over budget. 

Your house will become a big project for you and you will spend a lot of time fitting out your new workshop (hopefully). Massive changes for you.

I have been through big work / life balance changes over the last five years but not in similar professions. It is very important to your mental health and your happiness and well being - but new home (and starting a family soon?) will completely change your world. 

Try and bear it a little while longer, look forward to your evenings in the workshop after office time and maybe reserve one or two nights a week for workshop time. Friends will start asking you to repair and make things for them. Get used to working in someone's home building a cupboard or fitting some weird shaped shelves. It can be a strange experience.

If you have time - find a local charity / city farm / church / school etc. an see if you can volunteer. Do some painting, repair some doors. City farms are great places for needing hutches built, fences repaired, hand rails step and ramps but somewhere with kids might want raised planters, ramps and all that made. You can make stuff in a low pressure environment and get a feel for that kind of work.

Best of luck - hope the house move goes through smoothly.


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## billw (11 Dec 2020)

It's been really interesting to read the different views, experiences, and perspectives on this thread with some recurring themes such as materialism and blurring hobby with work, and how they can constrain "ideal" choices.


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## Spectric (11 Dec 2020)

The dream for many is to combine your interest with work so work becomes an extension to what you love doing but this is not the case for the majority, the dream becomes a nightmare for so many. Taking money out of the equation you are left with a valuable commodity that eventually expires, time and is often sacrificed in chasing dreams. Working for yourself is great but time is nolonger yours as it belongs to the customer and you end up working all hours just in case there is a quite time on the horizon. If you really want to go for it then make sure you are financially stable, paid of most of the mortage and really hate your current job to the point you just don't want to go anymore and it is starting to effect your health.


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## --Tom-- (11 Dec 2020)

This gives a nice representation







Seems like you’re comfortable but empty at the moment


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## Stanleymonkey (11 Dec 2020)

Just a thought - have you considered somewhere like this? They train volunteers and can probably point you in the right direction for local contacts and colleges. Might even help you get on a college course if you have some experience and places are tight. At the worst - good supplier of wood and I bet they make a good cuppa! I wish I had one closer to me.






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## doctor Bob (11 Dec 2020)

I say give it a go.


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## billw (11 Dec 2020)

--Tom-- said:


> This gives a nice representation



How on earth you actually reach ikigai I have no idea.

Edit: Actually I realised I achieved this during my career.


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## Mark Hancock (11 Dec 2020)

I've been following this with interest as I did something similar over 30 years ago; gave up a proper job (paid every month  ), retrained and became self employed doing something I love. It was a big decision to take with a lot of the considerations mentioned already around finances, material desires and needs but definitely the best decision I've ever made. So I believe I've also achieved ikigai


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## Terry - Somerset (11 Dec 2020)

Perhaps the decision is more about risk. However analytical you are, and however rational the decision for radical change, subsequent events may render the decision flawed.

finances - swapping a well paid job for a lesser erratic income may seem a worthwhile sacrifice. But when you find that holidays or meals out have to take a back seat to fixing a depleted bank balance you may feel differently
work vs hobby - hobby is about developing and using skills, creativity, satisfaction in the finished product etc. Woodwork as a job will be a business. Efficiency, admin, cost control etc will be a concern. When you find your "niche" it may just seem repetitive.
you may enjoy your hobby - but you may or may not be very good at it. Difficult to be objective. 
you may misjudge your market in your enthusiasm to make a change. A high quality, higher price market often relies on several years development through personal recommendation. Otherwise normal business rules apply.
I wonder if I should have made the change from financial management to something else - but I know that I am fairly risk averse. I have been content to accept the outcome - sometimes frustrating and tedious was the price paid for a secure job and decent pension. 

These days it tends to be easier to get employers to flex employment terms - part time working, sabbaticals, job share etc. 

Go down to 3 days a week if you can, understand what it is like living on a much lower income, use the other two days to try and develop your skills and business. It will either work (great) or give you a route back if it doesn't.


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## andy hamilton (12 Dec 2020)

Giving up a well-paid job with a good pension scheme and starting my own woodworking business was a giant leap into the unknown - exhilerating but scary. That was 35 years ago. It was often a financial struggle with plenty of sleepless nights, the words of a popular song 'Money's too tight to mention' going round and round in my head. But I've never had a single regret. I hated my job and my bullying incompetent bosses. It was making me ill. There's nothing like the feeling of being master of your own destiny, answerable to nobody. It's been hard work with long hours and even now cash flow can be a worry. If you're a born worrier, hopeless with money, aren't fully focussed on what you're doing, don't have a ruthless streak, don't want to put the hours in, don't do it. And don't forget the hidden downside - if you turn your hobby into the means of earning a living, you risk killing the interest in it


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## Glitch (12 Dec 2020)

I think the OP has already weighed up the advice and is going down a sensible low risk path.

We live in very unstable times. Even in 'normal' times most small businesses fail. 
I think it's much harder to succeed as an independent, self-employed worker compared to 10/20/30 years ago. 

A complete career change with significant retraining is not the same level of risk as a skilled/experienced PAYE employee becoming an independent contractor in the same field.

One thing you need to do is the sums. 
How much do you need to live the lifestyle you and your family want? 
How much can the household realistically earn?
How much do you need to get through your retraining period before you start earning your target income?
How much will it cost to set up and equip the business - e.g. workshop/van/tools?
How much emergency funding do you need for the slack times, house/car/van repairs, or time off sick?


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2020)

andy hamilton said:


> ...... And don't forget the hidden downside - if you turn your hobby into the means of earning a living, you risk killing the interest in it


Or the more obvious upside, you could end up earning a living from what you like doing best. Most people are best at what they like doing best. This is key to many/most successful businesses and/or to people being happily employed.


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## pils (12 Dec 2020)

thetyreman said:


> .



I find this comment intriguing . 


ps. lovely workbench build


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## Cooper (12 Dec 2020)

billw said:


> How on earth you actually reach ikigai I have no idea.


It is possible, at least for me. I have been really lucky, I enjoyed my whole career. I went to technical school, then art school (brilliant experience). Worked as an industrial trainee/Toy Designer (until the 3 day week ended that). Retrained as a D&T teacher in Inner London, discovered I was reasonably proficient at it and made good progress and lots of friends and was lucky, most of the children were really nice. After 20 years switched from mainstream to a Kent special school and couldn't believe I was paid to do my job for the next 20 years. The only shadows were government initiatives we had to accommodate and one unpleasant head teacher. Of course our practical subject made enjoying what I did easy.


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2020)

pils said:


> I find this comment intriguing .
> 
> 
> ps. lovely workbench build


What the Antique Brutalist Solid Beech Workbench ? I thought it was brilliant! Just two old joists bolted together side by side. Or is it one piece with bolts through to keep it together? Plus tapered pegs. 
Almost tempted to knock one up and scrap my existing. I'd have a Record vice though.


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## billw (12 Dec 2020)

Cooper said:


> It is possible, at least for me. I have been really lucky, I enjoyed my whole career.



I had jobs I enjoyed and some I utterly loathed, well not the job but the people involved in it. Was once told my boss was right because "he earns more than you", this was in a situation where I refused to distribute information to the business because I knew it wasn't accurate, whilst he had a deadline from his boss and he wanted the info giving out just to meet it not giving a damn about whether it was rubbish or not. I soon got paid off from that job


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## BearTricks (13 Dec 2020)

Thanks again for all the great replies. I remember a time on here where it would descend in to bickering fairly quickly.


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## pils (14 Dec 2020)

Jacob said:


> What the Antique Brutalist Solid Beech Workbench ? I thought it was brilliant! Just two old joists bolted together side by side. Or is it one piece with bolts through to keep it together? Plus tapered pegs.
> Almost tempted to knock one up and scrap my existing. I'd have a Record vice though.


Sorry Jacob, missed this. I didn't mean that crazy, gorgeous, brutalist thing but it made me smile so, thank you. 
I meant Workbench Build aka Paul Sellers style by https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/members/thetyreman.24042/


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