# NEW WORKSHOP DILEMMA.



## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2013)

I have a new workshop to build/buy. I have an external width of about 15', a length of about 20'. I can build on the boundary that is mine, and the other boundary (hopefully) will be a rebuilt wall. The neighbour with the wall to build might be amenable to building a garage at the same time. My problem is that I can't see how to build on the actual boundaries without guttering and eaves overhanging. The boundary that I'm actually building on is probably the lesser of the problems (I can just build a few inches in), the other wall I can probably get built high enough (at my expense), but I can't see how to use the wall without guttering and eaves encroaching on the neighbour's land (I assume he won't mind my building off it!). If I build inboard of the wall, I'll have to leave access for maintenance, which means I'd just as well leave 2 1/2' - 3' as a path up the side, which potentially knocks 20% off the floor area of the workshop. It seems wasteful to build a new wall next to a new wall. Even an apparently ridiculous suggestion might trigger a brilliant idea, so all thoughts and ideas are very welcome!
Thanks, Phil.


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## Graham Orm (8 Nov 2013)

You don't need access between the 2 walls. I think building on top of his wall may bring all sorts of complications. Build a new wall far enough in that your gutters don't cross the boundary, or better still arrange the roof so that the drainage is elsewhere.


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## nathandavies (8 Nov 2013)

http://www.inbuilding.org/cfs-file....-files/38/7853.0110_2D00_101-Eaves-detail.jpg

there are ways of doing it.

I think you will need a second wall within, but it would be an internal skin. I think the above link will give you an idea of how it could work.

Nathan


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## gregmcateer (8 Nov 2013)

Not sure of the exact layout, but basically you cannot overhang his property with guttering, etc - we had to bring in our extension wall a tad, as the architect (!!) had got the measurement wrong...


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## lincs1963 (8 Nov 2013)

If your neighbour is amenable to building his wall higher than your eaves, you would only need to build an 'inner skin' on your side to support the roof and then form a box gutter. No overhang and no loss of space/floor area in your workshop.
Just a suggestion.


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## xy mosian (8 Nov 2013)

One of the recent property build programs on the telly showed a gutter inboard of the roof edge by 100 -150m. There was no overhang. The gutter showed as a groove in the roof. I assume the little rain falling on that roof edge was assumed to be of no consequence.
xy


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## Graham Orm (8 Nov 2013)

Box gutters work well when done properly. They are used a lot on bungalows when a conservatory is added. However there was a thread recently (can't remember who by) about a problem box gutter that was leaking and the big job it was to repair or maintain it.


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2013)

My first post was a collection of impromptu, random thoughts. I've thought more since then, so I'll begin at the beginning. I'm sixty next month, with a finite amount of money. A tiled, pitched roofed, cavity walled, double glazed workshop is calling to me - but not as loudly as a Triumph Rocket III. Therefore economies will be made, and it will be flat roofed. I was thinking of a gently pitched roof sloping to both sides, but it makes more sense to slope the roof from front to back. This obviates the need for guttering on the sides, which makes boundary issues simpler. The problem with that is that it would have to be a conventional flat roof, as I couldn't get height enough at the front to have high enough pitch just to felt it, its being twenty feet long. I could slope it from the centre both ways, which would give a higher pitch and allow me to felt it. I suspect my neighbour wouldn't mind my building a wall on my side of his boundary - there is no real need for the wall to be his, it's only a line. If I did this in six inch block up to about five feet, then went upwards in timber, I would have room for a fascia and felt without encroaching on his boundary. Most of the rest of the construction will be timber anyway. I would rather have the rainwater at the front, but I need more height at the front than the back, because this is where the windows will be and the work will be done.
Here endeth this evening's witterings.
Phil.


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## xy mosian (8 Nov 2013)

Grayorm":3ss66xva said:


> Box gutters work well when done properly. They are used a lot on bungalows when a conservatory is added. However there was a thread recently (can't remember who by) about a problem box gutter that was leaking and the big job it was to repair or maintain it.



I gues I was describing a ' Box Gutter' Grayorm, I didn't know that, thanks. Of course no-one, on the TV show, mentioned potential problems, but then so few exist in TV land.  
xy


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2013)

I saw a box gutter on an old building that ran across a roof, through the side of another, through the roof space and out the middle of the other side. It had been there for 150yrs. I had the scrap lead from the roof when it was stripped - two and a half tons. :lol:


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## xy mosian (8 Nov 2013)

My first workshop was in a mill with, what I now know to be, a box gutter along one edge of the roof/ceiling. It wasn't half draughty, and cold in the winter. That haul of lead sounds like a bonus.
xy


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## No skills (8 Nov 2013)

Would the use of an edpm membrane (instead of felt) allow you to do a simple pitched roof?


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2013)

I'll look into that one, as I have a flat roof that needs doing anyway.


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## blackrodd (8 Nov 2013)

Being a "believer", i can understand the need for the Triumph.
Can I suggest that if, by agreement you and you.re neighbor built the "party" wall to 2.5 metres, (or a little more) high then you could bolt the pole plate to the wall, and have a monopitch, "Flat" roof at around 2.4 meters or whatever, away from the "party" wall. regards, Rodders


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Nov 2013)

Yes, worth a thought. I'm not sure as yet what my new neighbour is prepared to do or spend, obviously it makes sense to work together.


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## markturner (12 Nov 2013)

If you go the flat roof way, EPDM is very good and you only need a minimal pitch. You could have a central box gutter or one at the side. I don't know how handy you are, but the EPDM is pretty easy to install if you are a competent woodworker. You can buy kits here: http://www.sedumsupply.co.uk/ just ignore the sedum bit of the operation, which goes on top of the EPDM layer. make sure you use top quality ply and insulation under the EPDM and you will be fine. making the roof a compact type, rather than a warm roof will save height on the build up. 

Cheers, Mark


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## nev (12 Nov 2013)

no?


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Nov 2013)

I'm an ex bee keeper (because of anaphylactic shock), but we try to be bee friendly, so I might look into the sedum route as it would be another layer of insulation on a building that is going to be quite cold.


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Nov 2013)

nev":3e8300sk said:


> no?



It much depends how anal the neighbour is over the actual boundary, as the wall on the right is redundant. I may end up doing it that way, though. Bearing in mind he has to build something on his side anyway, it would work better and be more economic to build the boundary wall to the full height, and both build off it - it might be cheaper for him than buying something prefabricated. Hopefully, three weeks and we're in so then we can talk seriously about it. I'd rather have my neighbours inside my tent pisssing out than outside pisssing in.


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## nev (12 Nov 2013)

alternatively just have internal drainage. in through the roof at the lowest point then horizontal-ish drainpipe at high level to the front of the building and out through the wall and into your butt.

http://www.rubber4roofs.co.uk/Joins-Pro ... rate-68mm/


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Nov 2013)

If I stick with this design the roof water is an irrelevance, as the side it drains to is my boundary - I can position the wall to allow for the overhang of the gutters. (or the launders, as they are in this part of the world


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