# DIY Dust Cyclone - backwards WIP



## Krysstel

Actually this is not really a WIP since to avoid making a fool of myself I’ve finished and tested the cyclone already, so this is more a reverse-engineering report  
I know it’s been done before but it’s a while since anyone posted theirs so I thought I’d show this anyway.
After suffering for many years with various shop-vacs and their inherent blocked filters I’d decided to go for a Super-DD combined with a Camvac 2-motor 286. This idea soon became a non-starter however when the shipping quote came in from Oneida :shock: 
The alternative could have been a Record RX5000 but I thought it would at least be worth a try to construct my own cyclone provided I could do it cheaply and it worked :wink: 
It also had to be structurally sound and built to last a good while. That meant better that a paint bucket, 3 pipes and a load of glass fibre car body filler (no offence meant to those who’ve done that !).
As a start point I bought a bright orange traffic cone, new ! (yes, really !!) :shock: :roll: + a black plastic concrete mixing pail (which cost next to nothing).
And this is how I put it together as a dust cyclone :-

First I removed the rubber foot from the cone which revealed a moulded flange perfect for attaching an upper cylinder. I also cut the top off the cone to suit a 4” waste pipe.
I then made a flange ring from 18mm timberboard and glued and screwed it to the flange on the cone. On top of that I glued and screwed a 12mm MDF square plate. A similar MDF plate, but 19mm, supports the outlet pipe and will form the lid of the waste box (which I havn’t made yet).
To tie the 2 plates together I used 4 lengths of M10 threaded rod inside 4 lengths of 32mm plastic pipe which sit in routed locating grooves in the support plates. 
Here’s the complete cone assembly with top and bottom plates and outlet/waste pipe at the bottom of the cone.










The upper cylinder is cut from the concreting pail and then rolled to fit the inside diameter of the cone flange and joined with a metal strip pop-riveted and glued. The cylinder is then screwed into the edge of the timeberboard flange ring from the inside with small countersunk screws.
The side intake pipe I made as a box from ½” ply that narrows to a rectangular funnel directing the air/dust stream around the outside of the top cylinder instead of just squirting it in like a fountain. The whole box then hangs from another plate made from 18mm timberboard which also forms a top flange for the upper cylinder. Again, small countersunk screws from the inside.
Here’s the complete upper cylinder and side intake assembly :-





To keep the upper assembly rigid and to avoid any structural load being placed on the plastic cylinder, I mounted the whole cylinder arrangement on the threaded bars with 4 more plastic tube spacers in locating grooves.
Here’s the complete cone and upper cylinder assembly :-





I wanted to be able to easily access the inside of the cyclone in case of blockages so the top vacuum pipe is mounted through another MDF plate which then fits over the side outlet support plate and is sealed with rubber weather seal strip (white strips in previous picture). The plan is to hang the whole cyclone from the ceiling so on the top I used ring nuts.
Finally I sealed all the seams and joints with loads of hot glue.
Here’s the vacuum extract pipe arrangement and the complete cyclone :-









So, what we’ve got now is a contraption that looks like an upturned traffic cone with a black plastic bucket stuck on top. Not very pretty, but I have a plan to do something about that next ……………. Watch this space !

And the 6 million $ question; “does it work ?” 
I didn’t want to buy the planned Camvac if the cyclone didn’t work so I havn’t been able to run a proper test yet. I did however borrow a small 3/4hp chip collector with 4” inlet and connected to that the cyclone sucked up everything I threw at it whilst the chip collector only spat out a small amount of fine dust. 
So I think the answer is yes it does work, probably …………….. 
  

Mark


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## kityuser

looking good!, I like the idea of the traffic cone 8) 

can't see inside the top, is there an air ramp to persuade the in-draft down and reduce turbulence rather than just spinning round and around in the top section?


Steve


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## Krysstel

Nope, no air ramp - yet.
Bit worried about installing one, finding out it makes matter worse, and then having to get it out again without wrecking the top cylinder.
It would also mean I'd have to do away with the detachable top part and seal the whole cyclone for good.
Did you notice any appreciable difference when you put an air ramp in yours ?
If we're talking about 1-2% less dust that gets to the extractor then I can live without.

Mark


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## kityuser

Krysstel":2w23r2wj said:


> Nope, no air ramp - yet.
> Bit worried about installing one, finding out it makes matter worse, and then having to get it out again without wrecking the top cylinder.
> It would also mean I'd have to do away with the detachable top part and seal the whole cyclone for good.
> Did you notice any appreciable difference when you put an air ramp in yours ?
> If we're talking about 1-2% less dust that gets to the extractor then I can live without.
> 
> Mark



to be completely honest, I never tried it without.....

Steve


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## stef

I like that.
I also started on my own cyclone. still at the design phase, so your post is most welcome.
i was reading about all the complex stuff that makes a cyclone, and from what i was gathering, you need something like 22m/s air flow in the pipework, and a sucked volume of 0.375cubic meter a second... that meant an gigomaximentrous motor+prop...round 3-4kw...which too me, would almost require its own power generator to run without tripping the meter everytime someone switches on the toaster.
i got my hands on a 1kW motor+turbine. i am going to try that.


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## Krysstel

Suck it and see is the best option !

If anyones interested I have CAD drawings of the whole design which I could make pdf's of.

Mark


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## Steve Jones

> If anyones interested I have CAD drawings of the whole design which I could make pdf's of.




Yes please Mark 

Regards

Steve


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## MikeG.

It really doesn't need to be this complicated!

I made mine about 15 years ago, I guess, and it is simply a ply box with a horizontal shelf, which has a hole in it. You attach the "suck" from the extractor to the area above the shelf, and the inlet pipe goes in a side-wall below it. I put a baffle in front of the inlet pipe. Job done!

It works a treat......simply open the side of the box to clean out the dust, shavings etc (retrieving the odd pencil, screw etc at the same time). Virtually nothing gets through to the extractor, which I empty probably once a year.

If I find some pictures........

Mike


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## Oryxdesign

Mike Garnham":38s3l2o4 said:


> It really doesn't need to be this complicated!
> 
> I made mine about 15 years ago, I guess, and it is simply a ply box with a horizontal shelf, which has a hole in it. You attach the "suck" from the extractor to the area above the shelf, and the inlet pipe goes in a side-wall below it. I put a baffle in front of the inlet pipe. Job done!
> 
> It works a treat......simply open the side of the box to clean out the dust, shavings etc (retrieving the odd pencil, screw etc at the same time). Virtually nothing gets through to the extractor, which I empty probably once a year.
> 
> If I find some pictures........
> 
> Mike



And I thought you were going to make a comment about the first image. Something along the lines of "you don't need any more than 3 hammers"


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## CroppyBoy1798

Looks interesting! Its almost as if faith is drawing me towards making one of these!! :shock: A couple of weeks back by small shop vac broke, and lately I see a traffic cone threw into the laneway behind my house! I'm going out to get it now before it goes missing! :lol:


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## woodbloke

This is interesting 'cos I've got the C386 but a cyclone might take up more room in the 'shop, which I don't want - Rob


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## johnf

I just use one of these On a dustbin works a treat I haven't emptied the bag on the chip collector in six months 

http://www.camvac.co.uk/images/accessor ... 50-118.jpg


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## wobblycogs

Purely out of idle curiosity, how much does a traffic cone cost and where do you buy them?


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## Krysstel

Steve Jones":16rgnqmo said:


> Yes please Mark
> Regards
> Steve


I'll let you know when I've updated them.



woodbloke":16rgnqmo said:


> This is interesting 'cos I've got the C386 but a cyclone might take up more room in the 'shop, which I don't want - Rob


That's why I've got my eye on the smaller 286 and instead have the collection capacity under the cyclone.

Mark


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## Krysstel

wobblycogs":2rygtqd5 said:


> Purely out of idle curiosity, how much does a traffic cone cost and where do you buy them?



Waste of time me quoting how much I paid coz it was in Norwegian Kroner. As to where then google is your friend :wink:


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## MikeG.

I promised pictures........












Obviously top......closed, bottom........open for dust removal.

This is the small one for my bench, but I have another over the other side of the workshop for some of the other tools which is a different shape but exactly the same principle. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for a cone or cyclone-effect .......simply create a long path for the air to get through a box, and it will drop its dust load. 

One day I will make a room-sized version hooked up to a network of rainwater downpipes to all the machines.

Mike


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## wizer

I take it some dust does get through tho Mike? I do like the design as it's would be easier to situate in a workshop.


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## MikeG.

Almost no dust gets through at all, Tom. I empty David no more than once or twice a year. Absolutely no dust whatsoever gets put into the air from the system. The beauty of it is, as you say, that you can make a box to fit any nook or cranny you have in the workshop.

Mike


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## DaveL

A quick comment on the designs shown, if you are using these to just collect dust then they will work quite well, but if your planning on using them to separate shavings from a planer/thicknesser them you may well have a problem, take a look here where I had it, 5 years ago.


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## Krysstel

Mike Garnham":7boc7pw4 said:


> There is absolutely no need whatsoever for a cone or cyclone-effect .......simply create a long path for the air to get through a box, and it will drop its dust load.
> Mike


This set up obviously works since we can all see the evidence, but surely it must be a bit messy emptying the box ?
How does it handle chips from a PT ?



DaveL":7boc7pw4 said:


> A quick comment on the designs shown, if you are using these to just collect dust then they will work quite well, but if your planning on using them to separate shavings from a planer/thicknesser them you may well have a problem, take a look here where I had it, 5 years ago.



Hmm, I see your point.
I havn't sealed the cone to the bottom outlet pipe, they're just pulled tightly together by the threaded rods, so if it proves to be a problem then it should be easy for me to shorten the cone a few centimeters and modify the bottom plate to accept a 6" pipe.
Thanks for the suggestion, I may well just do it anyway since I'll probably be dismantling the whole thing again to make an air ramp.

Mark


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## Henning

Very nice, Mark! 

And completely blows the one i started yesterday out of the water, which means i wont be adding that here either  

Nice work, nonetheless


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## MikeG.

Krysstel":1843wabs said:


> This set up obviously works since we can all see the evidence, but surely it must be a bit messy emptying the box ?
> How does it handle chips from a PT ?
> Mark



Whilst the current set-up isn't too bad when it comes to emptying, because the dust is actually really tightly compressed by the forces in the box, it is easy to imagine how it might be improved. For instance, I could make a removable box to fit within the existing set up........or, starting from scratch I could have two seperate boxes, with the top one doing all the work with the pipes & baffles, and the bottom one just being a bin/ recepticle for the waste.

I haven't linked it up to a P/T , but it would clearly work. It doesn't reduce the suction or flow rate from the original vacuum cleaner/ extractor, so if the base extractor works with a P/T, then so will this set-up. 

In fact, I have in mind a test to see whether this machine could convert the high speed extraction from a vacuum cleaner into the high volume extraction required for a p/t, which would then save the bother of having to go and buy a new extractor.


Mike


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## Krysstel

How far into the box does the upper baffle go ?

Mark


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## TrimTheKing

Advance apologies for being an silly person, but what _is_ a baffle, and what does it do?  

Cheers

Mark


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## Krysstel

TrimTheKing":1n6fprqy said:


> Advance apologies for being an silly person, but what _is_ a baffle, and what does it do?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark


A deflection plate that, well, deflects. Anything - air, dust, water.
You can see one of them hanging vertically down in the bottom part of Mark Garnham's dust box.

Mark


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## MikeG.

Mark(s),

a baffle is just a bit of wood that disturbs the airflow, or causes it to change direction.

The upper baffle is just a loose-fitted piece of wood with dozens of holes (c. 10mm) which goes the full depth of the box.It seems to stop the finer dust from going to the vacuum cleaner. As you can see, it piles up in front of the baffle. There is another baffle with holes at 45 degrees in the corner below the shelf.

Don't get too hung up on this design. My other one is quite different.......the principle is to make the air travel a long and circuitous route through the box, and almost any design doing this will work. I should have patented this 15 years ago when I dreamed it up........I could be retired to my workshop by now on the proceeds!!!!

Mike


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## TrimTheKing

Mike Garnham":pveh5trt said:


> Mark(s),
> 
> a baffle is just a bit of wood that disturbs the airflow, or causes it to change direction.
> 
> The upper baffle is just a loose-fitted piece of wood with dozens of holes (c. 10mm) which goes the full depth of the box.It seems to stop the finer dust from going to the vacuum cleaner. As you can see, it piles up in front of the baffle. There is another baffle with holes at 45 degrees in the corner below the shelf.
> 
> Don't get too hung up on this design. My other one is quite different.......the principle is to make the air travel a long and circuitous route through the box, and almost any design doing this will work. I should have patented this 15 years ago when I dreamed it up........I could be retired to my workshop by now on the proceeds!!!!
> 
> Mike


Thanks Mike. 

another question then, I have read much about making sure as to not have too many bends in the 100mm pipes feeding my extractor to ensure you get the full amount of suckage.

Does this kind of design (or any similar ones) not cause this same problem, or is the impact negligible?


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## MikeG.

Mark,

This box has an immeasurably small impact on the suction. If you take the hose direct from the vacuum cleaner, it will hold up a piece of ply of size X. Then re-connect the cleaner to the box, and using the hose from the box, it will hold the same piece of ply. I loaded it all up and tested it to its limits when I first made the thing, and I couldn't measure any difference between the two.

A member here, Derek Willis (I haven't seen anything from him in a while???), saw this design and made one of his own last year. He now swears by it. The thing is, it is so simple that you can make one in an hour out of scrap. That isn't a big risk!!

Mike


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## TrimTheKing

Mike Garnham":14sxtt76 said:


> Mark,
> 
> This box has an immeasurably small impact on the suction. If you take the hose direct from the vacuum cleaner, it will hold up a piece of ply of size X. Then re-connect the cleaner to the box, and using the hose from the box, it will hold the same piece of ply. I loaded it all up and tested it to its limits when I first made the thing, and I couldn't measure any difference between the two.
> 
> A member here, Derek Willis (I haven't seen anything from him in a while???), saw this design and made one of his own last year. He now swears by it. The thing is, it is so simple that you can make one in an hour out of scrap. That isn't a big risk!!
> 
> Mike


Absolutely, looks good to me, I might have to give it a crack when I am off next week.

Cheers


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## wizer

I changed Henry's bag today... 3 weeks since it's last change! I'm looking into this one.


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## Dave S

wobblycogs":2n1o7yed said:


> Purely out of idle curiosity, how much does a traffic cone cost and where do you buy them?


Do you have any students near you???  

cheers
Dave


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## Dave S

johnf":3p7oip8p said:


> I just use one of these On a dustbin works a treat I haven't emptied the bag on the chip collector in six months
> 
> http://www.camvac.co.uk/images/accessor ... 50-118.jpg


You know, I never realised until now that Camvac are just a few miles from me.

If ever a company needed a new website, though - looks like it pre-dates the camvac by about 10 years!! :lol: 

cheers
Dave


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## Dave S

Mike Garnham":3ufyihud said:


> I promised pictures........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously top......closed, bottom........open for dust removal.
> 
> This is the small one for my bench, but I have another over the other side of the workshop for some of the other tools which is a different shape but exactly the same principle. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for a cone or cyclone-effect .......simply create a long path for the air to get through a box, and it will drop its dust load.
> 
> One day I will make a room-sized version hooked up to a network of rainwater downpipes to all the machines.
> 
> Mike


What your design and those found here and here demonstrate quite clearly is that a simple approach can, in practical terms, give almost as much performance as the most highly designed solutions. The law of diminishing returns is quite graphically demonstrated.

I think much of the effect of your design, Mike, is down to the massive change in cross-section as you go from pipe to box. Guessing the dimensions, the box probably has an area 200x that of the pipe - hence the mean velocity of the air in the box will be 1/200 that of the air on the pipe. It is the velocity of the air which keeps the fine dust in suspension. 

The baffles look to be setting up turbulent eddies, which is why there is a pile of dust in the middle of the box, just after the baffle. Overall, the restriction to flow caused by the baffles is fairly low, which is why in practical terms you notice no 'loss of suck'.

I made something even simpler some years ago with only 1 baffle. It wasn't as effective as yours (some fine dust did get through to the vac) but the filter bags on the vac required changing far less frequently.

I wouldn't be very optimistic about moving large amounts of chips with a vac, but for the time and cost involved it's got to be worth experimenting.  

cheers
Dave


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## frugal

wizer":2h739vsu said:


> I changed Henry's bag today... 3 weeks since it's last change! I'm looking into this one.



You use the bag? I must confess that I never both with the bag. The white mesh filter is good enough to stop pretty much everything that the paper bags ever did. The body will contain twice as much stuff as the bag did and in order to empty it, I just take off the hose and the lid and then upend the body onto the compost heap.

Although looking at a couple of those links, a dustbin cyclone may be on the cards.


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## woodbloke

Mike - a request. Could we have a couple more pics please of the internal gubbins?..holes etc. All is not too clear from your current pics - Rob


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## 9fingers

wobblycogs":167sls78 said:


> Purely out of idle curiosity, how much does a traffic cone cost and where do you buy them?



Between £5 & £13 each according to size

http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/level5/modul ... 406955.xml

carriage free on orders over £45 ish. Loads of goodies - challenge you to spend less than £50!

Bob


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## MikeG.

woodbloke":2ambqpn1 said:


> Mike - a request. Could we have a couple more pics please of the internal gubbins?..holes etc. All is not too clear from your current pics - Rob



Yep, sure thing Rob...........I'll sort that now. As it happens, I gave it a good clean out yesterday, so everything should be quite clear.

Do read Dave S's post, though. He re-iterates what I said previously.......the internal design isn't actually that important.

Piccies soon......

Mike


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## MikeG.

Right Rob,

pictures as promised......

Firstly, the door is held in place by something as sophisticated as a dowel in a hole:







This is the upper baffle, removed. It only sits in place loosely, and just gets shoved back any old where after a clean:






The hole in the middle shelf:







The corner baffle, a bit of hardboard with a few holes, bent into place between two battens:





An over-view (note the pencil it sucked up earlier today), You can see that the dust gets finer and finer the further it goes through the system, and virtually nothing gets into the final chamber:






A view of the inlet and first baffle. You can see the construction is all just crappy contiboard. It was built as an experiment, but worked so well without any tweeks that I haven't touched it in 15 years:






Just about the only important part of the design. This is the seal that goes around the door. Any draught strip from a DIY shop will do just fine, but it does have to be continuous. The door does not have to be held tight shut, because the vacuum pulls it tight against the seal.





As I said, don't take too much notice of the design. The principle is so simple, just adapt it to suit the space.

As you can see, I have been doing some woodwork after about 6 months of playing with aluminium and fibreglass. I'll do a posting in the next few days......but boy, does it feel nice to be playing with wood again, even just a bit of old pine!

Mike


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## woodbloke

Mike - many thanks...I've saved this thread onto 'Favouites' and will come back to it later on...may well have a go at building one and see if it will suck chippings from the p/t as well (using the Camvac 386 as a sucky source) - Rob


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## wizer

Thanks for the pics Mike, it's still not fully clear to me. Where are the inlet and outlets?


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## MikeG.

wizer":s35fsry4 said:


> Thanks for the pics Mike, it's still not fully clear to me. Where are the inlet and outlets?









The hose going out of the top goes to the vacuum cleaner, and the hose coming in the side attaches to the router or whatever.

Mike


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## wizer

Gottit. Thanks Mike. I wonder if I could get something rigged up with a drawer and a removable bucket for ease of emptying.


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## MikeG.

Yep, easy-peasy Tom. I mentioned it in an earlier post. You can do almost anything you like with the interior of the box and it would still work..........the only thing is that the box itself has to seal well. Nothing inside does, though.

Mike


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## studders

Mike Garnham":2fzg5nuy said:


> Right Rob,
> 
> pictures as promised......
> 
> Firstly, the door is held in place by something as sophisticated as a dowel in a hole:
> 
> 
> Mike



Well, if you're going to be all teknical an stuff I'll just go an buy one.


:lol:


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## cambournepete

Just found this and I love the simplicity of it.

Recently bought 5 new filter bags for my Festool vac at nearly £30!!!!

I was going to get an Oneida dust deputy, but I can make this almost for free and it will fit in my garage better.
Thanks for the inspiration Mike .


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## Krysstel

I thought this thread was about a DIY cyclone made fra a traffic cone and some scrap MDF. Perhaps I was wrong ............ :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## 9fingers

Most unusual for a topic to drift off the subject here! :roll: 

Bob


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## wizer

Let's talk about tablesaws...


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## Krysstel

The DIY cyclone discussion has now diverted here 
 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=37040

Mark


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## Mike.C

Krysstel":170y6xkr said:


> The DIY cyclone discussion has now diverted here
> 
> 
> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=37040
> 
> Mark



It ain't though. Thats more about buying the Oneida, and here was I looking forward to what started out as a well put together (HOME made) cyclone. What has happened to the one you started Mark?

Cheers

Mike


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## Mike.C

Mike Garnham":2kbupwwy said:


> I promised pictures........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously top......closed, bottom........open for dust removal.
> 
> This is the small one for my bench, but I have another over the other side of the workshop for some of the other tools which is a different shape but exactly the same principle. There is absolutely no need whatsoever for a cone or cyclone-effect .......simply create a long path for the air to get through a box, and it will drop its dust load.
> 
> One day I will make a room-sized version hooked up to a network of rainwater downpipes to all the machines.
> 
> Mike



Hi Mike,

Sorry if I am sounding thick, but are you saying that your box system will take the place of something like the Oneida Cyclone, and would a larger one work for a complete workshop, including chips etc from a p/t or other large machine?

Cheers

Mike


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## MikeG.

Yes, and yes.

Mike


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## agbagb

This works for me, althought I could do with a larger diameter pipe when its attached to the thicknesser running at full depth.






Dust bin with a Kirby on top. 

The in pipe goes straight in the side. There's no baffles and fine dust does get through to the bag. However I've not got a paper filter bag in it, just using the cloth outer bag. This need unzipping and knocking out every couple of dustbin fulls. The dustbin I empty out straight in to a bin bag.

Simple, portable and effective.

Andy


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## wizer

*KIRBY* 8)


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## grafter

Mike - 'mikes magic box'
regarding your design - can you give us the rough size for the box in the picture

you mention that you have built another model - have you found a best size for the box or does it not really matter

thanks


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## MikeG.

Sorry, I missed this post.

The box is 800x500x300 approx, and that is utterly irrelevant to its function. It would work just as well half the size or double the size. Make it to suit the space available. I have contemplated making one as the base for my bandsaw, for instance.

Mike


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## grafter

thanks mike


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## jlawrence

hmmm. I wonder if it would be possible to have a 'dual' box.
I'm thinking 2 inlets and 2 outlets - one hoover size (52mm ? for routers etc) and one chip collector size (100mm).
I think I'll need to build one of these boxes and have a play.


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## MikeG.

I think it will work........so long as you shut a valve off to isolate the on-duty hose. Have a play...........you could do a lot of people a favour.

Mike


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## CNC Paul

I don't think it will work......But I could be wrong !!!

Vacuum cleaners work on the principle of high pressure and low volume this is fine with small diameter pipework, extractors with 100mm and above work on low pressure and high volume. If you have 100mm pipework connected to a vacuum cleaner you will not move enough air to remove the wood chips from a planer. I have tried a small pipe connected to 100mm pipework to use a sander but was far less efficient than the hoover.


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## jlawrence

Paul, I wasn't thinking of using the 'hoover' as a chip collector, but rather having a 100mm AND a 'hoover' connection to power the box. Thus allowing a single dust (chip) collection point for both systems.
So, I'd still have a 100mm extractor powering the 100mm kit and a hoover for the 'hoover' kit.


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## CNC Paul

OK.

I got the impression you were just using a single hoover, as Mike said you will need to have four shut off valves, the two on the 100mm side will need to seal really well.


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## jlawrence

indeed - effectively 4 blast gates.


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## CNC Paul

Thinking about it you could make "one" gate to operate the two inlets and the two outlets at once.


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