# How would you go about making something like this?



## Beau (16 Sep 2022)

A friend has a Georgian home that has these pillars that are rotting out (around 3m long). He has asked me to help but never made anything like this before and looking for tips on how to go about it. 

Thanks
Beau


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## akirk (16 Sep 2022)

Any chance of a larger photo?


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## Beau (16 Sep 2022)

That one and this is all I have. He doesn't need an exact replica just something similar as both pillars will get replaced


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## akirk (16 Sep 2022)

not my expertise - but is it simply shapes routed along a cylinder?


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## Beau (16 Sep 2022)

It's tapered so I think the molding will be tricky


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## ajs (16 Sep 2022)

I suspect I was thinking along the same lines as akirk but hadn't realised the taper, it isn't apparent in the photos. A proper view of the fluting so we can see cross section would be helpful but fundamentally you need to decide on subtractive or additive construction, i.e starting from solid and carving the flutes out or starting with a blank and attaching moulding. The former will inevitably mean building some form of cradle to support the posts while they are routed and to serve as tool guide.

First things first though... is this a listed building?


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## TRITON (16 Sep 2022)

Do you have a lathe ?


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## Jacob (16 Sep 2022)

Are they wood, it looks like cast iron to me?
Do they bear much weight?


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## johna.clements (16 Sep 2022)

Jacob said:


> Are they wood, it looks like cast iron to me?
> Do they bear much weight?


Maybe a wrought or cast iron column with timber cladding! 

The mark near the top could be rust.

This could be a bit more complicated than it first looks since they appear to be supporting a canopy or the roof.


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## D_W (16 Sep 2022)

That type of column isn't uncommon here, but what's left is usually just cladding around a post. The cladding changed from wood to metal over time and now they're not as common. 

Are there any codes you have to deal with if you replace pillars like that? If so, then doing whatever the engineer or inspector likes at this point is probably job 1.


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## Beau (16 Sep 2022)

No idea if it's a listed place but I will leave that to the owner and just do what is asked of me.

No iron inside as they have now dug out some of the rot and gone almost right through it! They have a builder on site doing other works who will prop things if need be. 

I do have a lathe but nothing like long enough but I do have another idea. I have a bandsaw mill to which I could attach a router to use as a large router sled. First I could fix a couple of indexing pivots (16 points needed) to a couple of bunks that are far enough apart. Then bandsaw mill a multi-faceted "pillar" and then attach a router to the mill to add the molding but again not sure how the molding works with the taper. 

This is the type of mill I have which might be adapted to do the work? Portable Sawmills | Woodland Mills UK


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## Jacob (16 Sep 2022)

Beau said:


> That one and this is all I have. He doesn't need an exact replica just something similar as both pillars will get replaced


Basic rule of conservation work - he _*does*_ need an exact replica, if at all possible.
What tends to happen if you don't do a good replica, even at the client's request, is that you get the blame, and vice versa; you could get the credit!
Best way to find out how to make it would be to take one away and have a good look at it on the bench. It's usually possible to see exactly how they did it and it'll probably be easier/simpler than you think.


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## rogxwhit (16 Sep 2022)

I did a similar job a couple of years ago. They needed four off. I made a carrier jig to replicate the taper from scraps of wood, ply, & mdf, whatever was to hand, and at one end of it I made an index plate with holes according to the no of flutes. The stock, having been roughed to an octagonal section on the sawbench, was fastened to the jig by its centres at each end. A pin (screw) was inserted through one of the indexed holes and into a hole in the stock. 

The cutter shape was two arcs flanking a point, so I was milling the groove and two half-beads on each pass. Why not a bead cutter? Because I wanted to taper the beads with the column. 

Spindle one pass, rotate stock one index position and repeat ...

The accuracy of the result was dependent on that of the index plate. 

Whole job was quick & economic. Joiner who commissioned me was happy, & so was his client.


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## Beau (16 Sep 2022)

rogxwhit said:


> I did a similar job a couple of years ago. They needed four off. I made a carrier jig to replicate the taper from scraps of wood, ply, & mdf, whatever was to hand, and at one end of it I made an index plate with holes according to the no of flutes. The stock, having been roughed to an octagonal section on the sawbench, was fastened to the jig by its centres at each end. A pin (screw) was inserted through one of the indexed holes and into a hole in the stock.
> 
> The cutter shape was two arcs flanking a point, so I was milling the groove and two half-beads on each pass. Why not a bead cutter? Because I wanted to taper the beads with the column.
> 
> ...


That's very helpful. 

"The cutter shape was two arcs flanking a point" do you mean something like this? I am thinking if it's tapered I need a fairly flat arc so it doesn't come to a point and the thin end. Hope that makes sense Trend 7/06X1/4TC Flat ovolo 12mm radius


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## Jonm (17 Sep 2022)

Difficult to see the size of these pillars and what they are supporting. They appear to be supporting a large truss. How are they fixed top and bottom. I think it needs a structural engineer for both the temporary and permanent works. If this goes wrong who will your friend look to for recompense, you or the builder?

Edit- From the photos, this looks massive, maybe it is a lot smaller than I am envisaging. Actual dimensions would be helpful, height/diameter of column, spans of those trusses.


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## rogxwhit (17 Sep 2022)

Beau said:


> That's very helpful.
> 
> "The cutter shape was two arcs flanking a point" do you mean something like this? I am thinking if it's tapered I need a fairly flat arc so it doesn't come to a point and the thin end. Hope that makes sense Trend 7/06X1/4TC Flat ovolo 12mm radius


No, that's too shallow, and it produces a flat-bottomed groove. I just flipped through the Wealden cat and can't see anything appropriate. I was using a spindle moulder and if it wasn't a stock cutter (can't remember) I had a grinding facility. 

The cutter shape must accord with the particular sample, anyway.

Here's a pic with the columns in from the joiner, he's turned the bosses himself that'll go top & bottom. The wood he supplied for the job was sapele.


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## niall Y (17 Sep 2022)

ENTARSIS ?,............ or am I introducing an unnecessary complication.


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## rogxwhit (17 Sep 2022)

Entasis ...

My columns had a straight taper, but I could've easily added a curve via the edge of the jig that ran along the spindle fence.


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## Jonm (17 Sep 2022)

It looks like a repair has been done to the LH column near the top. Top of columns appears to go in to a collar in the cast iron? truss. Cannot see how bottom of pillar is fixed. No doubt the pillars were installed with the truss. Method of installation and fixing details at top and bottom is needed to determine exactly what needs making.


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## rogxwhit (17 Sep 2022)

Just occurred to me that a wooden column could function as a foundry pattern ....


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## recipio (17 Sep 2022)

I have a Legacy mill that would do it in 4' sections.  As a DIY project I think you would be into building a long Router sled with accurate indexing. It would rout a taper as well. The question is ,Is it worth the time and effort. ?


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## Linus (17 Sep 2022)

You could ask Richard Findley - he does this sort of work quite often. He might even make them for you if you so wish.






Contact - The Turner's Workshop


Contact details for Richard Findley at The Turner's Workshop, in Wigston, Leicestershire, LE18 2FB. 0116 2811303




turnersworkshop.co.uk


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## IanA (18 Sep 2022)

We made six larch oars 10 feet long for a skiff. A very smooth taper was achieved over the full length by using a router sled, mounting the larch blanks a centimeter higher at one end then running the router along the top from end to end and revolving the blank. We used a flat router bit but you could change it to one of a suitable shape for your last runs. As Recipio notes, you would need an indexing system which of course we didn't need. Iana


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## Jonm (18 Sep 2022)

Jonm said:


> It looks like a repair has been done to the LH column near the top


I attach a copy of one of the photos.





I have circled the LH column and what looks like a joint. The RH column has no corresponding joint. It looks like the bottom part of the LH column is a repair and is in poor condition.

The top part of the LH column and the RH look in good condition, are these parts wood or cast iron? If in good condition why replace them.

Seems to me that more investigation is required.


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