# Insetting a cabinet door by 3mm using a butt hinge



## sammy.se (15 Oct 2020)

Hi, 

I'm fitting a couple of cabinet doors, inset in a beaded face frame. 
To me, it looks so much better if the doors are slightly deeper than the face frame, around 3mm, so that the bead flows nicely into the door. 
I plan on using butt hinges, and am going to experiment on some scrap first.

However, I'm guessing that trying to do this with butt hinges will mean the pivot point is offset and it will lead to all sorts of complications, or just a really big shadow gap.
Has anyone tried this before, and any advice? 

Thanks!!


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## bjm (15 Oct 2020)

You can get around the pivoting issue by chamfering the side opposite the hinges, just not sure it would look right??


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## sammy.se (15 Oct 2020)

bjm said:


> You can get around the pivoting issue by chamfering the side opposite the hinges, just not sure it would look right??



Thanks. Is that what is referred to as a 'leading edge', where the edge of the door is chamfered towards the inside?


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## bjm (15 Oct 2020)

sammy.se said:


> Thanks. Is that what is referred to as a 'leading edge', where the edge of the door is chamfered towards the inside?


Yes. The back of the door will be slightly narrower to allow it to open/close without requiring too big a gap on the face.


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## Cabinetman (15 Oct 2020)

I understand entirely why are you want to do it, and you can but it will mean that the door won’t open quite so far. Yes I agree make a mock up first. I had the same problem on that desk I made (Put humongous into search and it will come up) I wanted to set the hinges down into the decorative groove on the elliptical barrels, they were set down four millimetres from memory and they opened far enough to not be noticeably wrong. Ian


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## RobinBHM (15 Oct 2020)

sammy.se said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm fitting a couple of cabinet doors, inset in a beaded face frame.
> To me, it looks so much better if the doors are slightly deeper than the face frame, around 3mm, so that the bead flows nicely into the door.
> ...


Ive always machined butt hinges for kitchen doors into the door only.

so for a typical 63mm butt hinge the hinge knuckle is about 5.5mm and so for a 2mm shadow gap the hinge is then set in 3.5mm -inmy experience the butt cutout needs a tiny chamfer to avoid the hinge fouling.

for beaded face frames, I have always set the bead about 1mm back from the face frame. To get the door to sit back a bit more just position the hinge back slightly -so that would be 2mm behind bead to create 3mm overall.

because the bead is rounded, if the hinges are all cut into the door not the frame, then the round of the bead and the door edge will almost be 3mm back anyway.


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## sammy.se (15 Oct 2020)

Thank you all for the advice! I shall experiment on some scrap and let you know how I get on.
I had considered whether or not to set the hinge into both the frame and the door, or just the door - and then decided to do both the frame and door. *But*, that said, if it's a done thing to let them into the door only, then that makes things easier


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## RobinBHM (15 Oct 2020)

sammy.se said:


> Thank you all for the advice! I shall experiment on some scrap and let you know how I get on.
> I had considered whether or not to set the hinge into both the frame and the door, or just the door - and then decided to do both the frame and door. *But*, that said, if it's a done thing to let them into the door only, then that makes things easier


I tend to think a cut out in the bead spoils the line, so have always done door only for beaded face frame work.

if you are really fancy, machine the bead to the exact round as the hinge knuckle and do the cut out entirely in the bead -where the hinge should be dead flush with the bead.


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## sammy.se (15 Oct 2020)

RobinBHM said:


> I tend to think a cut out in the bead spoils the line, so have always done door only for beaded face frame work.
> 
> if you are really fancy, machine the bead to the exact round as the hinge knuckle and do the cut out entirely in the bead -where the hinge should be dead flush with the bead.


Ooh that does sound good, perhaps for my next cabinet... Running before I walk etc


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## bjm (15 Oct 2020)

RobinBHM said:


> ...machine the bead to the exact round as the hinge knuckle and do the cut out entirely in the bead -where the hinge should be dead flush with the bead.


Visually this works very well but you do have to make sure the bead and hinges match so get your hinges first before cutting the bead - been there!!!


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## LBCarpentry (15 Oct 2020)

When we make windows I set the casements 2-3 mm deeper in the frame. They open perfectly fine up to around 5mm deep before you need to start thinking about chamfering etc. I think you’ll be fine


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## sammy.se (15 Oct 2020)

I did a couple of quick tests, almost there. I'll do a couple more tests using a trim router and jig.

(PS I deliberately left a 'lip' next to the length of the bead on the frame, also because it looks better to me)


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## bjm (15 Oct 2020)

Just my opinion but that knuckle next to the bead looks odd. Have you thought about using soss hinges?


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## Felix (17 Oct 2020)

Have a look at these.....






Brusso Cabinet Hardware - Shop by Brand - Classic Hand Tools Limited


Brusso Cabinet Hardware from Classic Hand Tools Limited. . Brusso Hardware - brass and stainless steel cabinet hinges & hardware.Brusso Hardware is the premier manufacturer of American made brass and stainless steel hardware for fine boxes, cabinetry, furniture,...




www.classichandtools.com





They might help with the aesthetics

Cheers

Dean


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## RobinBHM (17 Oct 2020)

LBCarpentry said:


> When we make windows I set the casements 2-3 mm deeper in the frame. They open perfectly fine up to around 5mm deep before you need to start thinking about chamfering etc. I think you’ll be fine


That's interesting, I'm just designing some flush casements and I'm working out what frame section to use.

It's a job needing to match existing, which requires a 14 mm rebate and I want to use Aquamac AQ124 but it's difficult to gauge what gap I need for this. So I was thinking go a bit deeper and if necessary set sash in a tad.


Apols to Sammy for thread hijack,,.


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## RobinBHM (17 Oct 2020)

sammy.se said:


> I did a couple of quick tests, almost there. I'll do a couple more tests using a trim router and jig.
> 
> (PS I deliberately left a 'lip' next to the length of the bead on the frame, also because it looks better to me)
> 
> View attachment 94299



I think that looks spot on to me. Pretty much what I used to do.

Although I didn't leave any quirk


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## sammy.se (17 Oct 2020)

Thanks Robin.
This is the first of a couple of cabinets I'll make around the house, so I shall also try without the quirk in one of those....


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## sammy.se (17 Oct 2020)

bjm said:


> Just my opinion but that knuckle next to the bead looks odd. Have you thought about using soss hinges?


I hadn't on this cabinet but I may on a future build.


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## Doug71 (17 Oct 2020)

bjm said:


> Just my opinion but that knuckle next to the bead looks odd. Have you thought about using soss hinges?



You could set the hinge slightly deeper in to the door so the knuckle doesn't stick out as much, you could go as deep as the centre of the hinge pin, the door won't open quite as far then though.


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## Sgian Dubh (17 Oct 2020)

bjm said:


> Just my opinion but that knuckle next to the bead looks odd.


It looks odd to me as well. I've always thought the preferred look is the knuckle in line with the bead, with the bead sized to match the arc of the hinge knuckle. That doesn't make me right, it being just my preference. Slainte.


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## LBCarpentry (20 Oct 2020)

RobinBHM said:


> That's interesting, I'm just designing some flush casements and I'm working out what frame section to use.
> 
> It's a job needing to match existing, which requires a 14 mm rebate and I want to use Aquamac AQ124 but it's difficult to gauge what gap I need for this. So I was thinking go a bit deeper and if necessary set sash in a tad.
> 
> ...


Yes, setting in a tad is much better than them sitting proud of the frame!
It does look better also which is a bonus


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## RobinBHM (20 Oct 2020)

LBCarpentry said:


> Yes, setting in a tad is much better than them sitting proud of the frame!
> It does look better also which is a bonus


Its hard to gauge sometimes how much a compression weather seal will compress....its especially an issue when making heritage windows with cockspur handles rather than espags.


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