# New scroll saw upgrade - Hegner/Axi/other



## jonbee56 (28 Oct 2018)

Guys,

I don’t really post very often and I know this subject has been discussed to death, but I own a record scroll saw and need an upgrade. 

I’ve learnt well over the years and now need a new saw as there are some issues that the Record has that can’t be overcome. 
1. I have to bolt it down to the bench and the fixing bolt locations are in damned inconvenient locations. 
2. The excessive vibration and noise really gives me a headache every time I use it
3. When speed is set anything above low, it “hunts” variable speeds
4. Refixing the blade for piercing work is a real PITA.
5. I’m fed up with constantly untensioning and retensioning the blade when I do piercing works

I changed the blade fixing grub screws for stainless thumb turn ones ages ago, but enough is enough.

Now the fun (but expensive) choice I have to make must include the following
1. Lack of noise 
2. Lack of vibration
3. Quick tension release
4. Quick blade changing clamp for piercing

I think I’ve narrowed it down, but cannot field test any of these:
Hegner multicut 2s variable
Axi AWFS18
Axi AWFS21
Axi EX16
Others ?

I’m open to options from those users on all machines listed (or any other brands) and know there is some rivalry or even snobbery with regards to these, but all I’m really interested in is getting a better machine.

Long term and heavy user advice would be very welcome


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## loftyhermes (29 Oct 2018)

If you don't mind second hand look for a Delta with the Quickset blade clamps. I've been using a Delta 40-560 type 2 for over 25 years.


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## AES (29 Oct 2018)

I can't say I've noticed any particular snobbery (on here or elsewhere) when it comes to scroll saw brands - I believe that once someone is ready to part with the roughly 300 and upwards quid that a "decent" scroll saw costs they've had enough experience to know exactly what they need/want, and therefore tend to "defend" their particular choices based on hard-won experience. Personally I don't see that as snobbery.

Having said that, when I was faced with exactly this decision almost 4 years ago I was lucky enough to buy from a dealer (in Germany) who allowed me to test my short list of 2 machines side by side. My short list was either a variable speed Hegner or an Excalibur (at that time the Axminster Tools versions of the 3 sizes of Excalibur models weren't available).

In the end I chose the Excalibur 21, basically because I got "more bang for my buck" than I would have with the Hegner. I found the Hegner to be beautifully built (even better than the Excali which I thought then - and still find - excellent in terms of build quality), BUT the Hegner was more expensive, and spares prices were, IMO, ridiculously expensive. Moreover the Excali has a tilting head (rather then the more common tilting table like the Hegner and many others), which although I thought was of minor importance, in reality that feature has turned out to be a real big advantage - even if you think you won't be doing a lot of angled cuts you'll be amazed at how often you do actually use the angled head - for all sorts of "non-scroll saw" jobs in reality.

I THINK (not sure) that the first Axi model you list is actually a clone of one of the Hegner models, and Claymore of this parish (he produces excellent work), amongst other members says he's very pleased with his. In addition one of the other models you list is the slightly reduced cost version of my own Excali which I certainly would have considered had it been available at the time I bought my Excali. Again Claymore and several other members here have these Axi-cloned Excalis, and all seem very pleased with them. From the pix posted here these Axi machines seem to be exactly the same as my "original" Excali, but with the addition of a NVR switch. 

Lofty has mentioned the Delta but they seem to be as rare as rocking horse manure over here, but from all I've heard, they're very good - though I've never ever even seen one in the flesh, just pix!

So apart from forgetting the "snobbery aspect", my own choice was based on good experience applicable exactly to myself, so I'd defend my own Excali choice (there are several members here who have them and like them), BUT at the same time agree that what fits me may not fit everyone else.

AT a guess I'd say that the Axi versions of either the Hegner (if you really don't expect to do many angled cuts) or the Excali would be the places to start - AND if the idea of SH doesn't worry you, then also have a look at that Delta which Lofty has pointed out.

One advantage of SH is of course you can try it out, whereas I understand from previous comments on here, Axminster will not allow prospect buyers to try a machine before purchase as I was allowed to In Germany.

I can't comment on the other 2 machines you list, sorry.

Edit for a P.S. If it's any help, here the "review" I posted at the time I chose my Excali:

post971908.html?hilit=Biting the bullet#p971908

Note that around the date of that last post there were several other posts comparing various scroll saws.

HTH


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## MJOriginals (29 Oct 2018)

Hi
I think loftyhermes is about right I have the ex16 and the two best things I found is the tilting head and keeping the table flat much easier to control angle cuts as your not fighting gravity when cutting a heavier piece,and secondly the blade change or opening for piercing type cuts is really quick
On mine I replaced the blade holders with the Pegas clamp set, abit expensive aximindter at £85. But they are significantly better at clamping the blade and do reduce vibration even more

Martyn


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## AES (29 Oct 2018)

Thanks for that info Martyn. I've seen the ads for those and have been considering them for my Ex 21 but being (IMO) quite expensive I wasn't sure. Yours is about the 3rd or 4th positive report I've had, so onto the Xmas wish list they go.


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## loftyhermes (29 Oct 2018)

Naznomad, sometime last year on a Delta with the Quickset clamps, timed himself from finishing an internal cut to starting another. That's pressing the stop button, releasing the blade, putting through the next hole, clamping, re-tensioning and pressing the start button again and did it in 7 seconds.


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## Droogs (29 Oct 2018)

+1 for AES comments about the Axi, however I bought the ex30 purely as i have large boards to do at times


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## jonbee56 (29 Oct 2018)

Thanks for the replies guys, I like the 7 second changeover immensely but am struggling to find a U.K. supplier. 

No views on the Hegner except the exorbitant price !!, so it looks like I am hunting the Axi route. Just need to find a supplier


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## George.. (30 Oct 2018)

Hi I have the Hegner 2 and find it works well for me. I have changed the square headed clamp screws for m4 high tensile socket bolts and use a Allen key. To allow the table to be flat when I tip it I have screwed the saw to a board which is hinged on the right side to my bench. I just lift the saw level and wedge/clamp it. 
George


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## loftyhermes (30 Oct 2018)

jonbee56":33z0d3kt said:


> Thanks for the replies guys, I like the 7 second changeover immensely but am struggling to find a U.K. supplier.


They are only available here second hand, look on auction sites etc.


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## AES (30 Oct 2018)

Yeah, they're not available here either - when I was looking for SH over a period of some months nothing came up.

I wonder why they're not available in Europe. All I've heard about them, they're good.

For the OP: If you don't mind a machine with a smaller capacity I THINK the Proxxon machines (there are 2 models I think) have a good reputation, but I've never tried one.


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## whatknot (30 Oct 2018)

I have the AWFS18 and am more than happy with it (a Hegner clone as has been said) 

I got it with the stand, and not wanting to waste time set about using it without bolting it down, and its still that way some two or more years later, very little vibration, and does all I ask of it

The only addition I would say is essential is the top quick clamp (retails around £24) 

Not sure if there is some confusion re Deltas, the earlier mentioned 40 560 is the old but very well thought of Delta, I suspect the later posts are the 40 694, similar to the DeWalt 788 (but a lot cheaper) although they appear to be a nice saw, personally I wouldn't have either in the UK, to many problems with spares and repairs (and have seen more than enough problems posted about the 788 to put me off anyway)


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## jonbee56 (30 Oct 2018)

Looks like the Awfs18 is winning the race here. I saw a couple of Deltas on Fleabay but they are waaay Norff of Watford & too far for me. Thanks for the Hegner comment as well.

Now don’t laugh, but mrs says the Hegner looks prettier :lol: , so my comment was that it’ll soon be covered in dust & the way it cuts doesn’t relate to what it looks like & £250 more for something “pretty” in a workshop doesn’t really wash with me. 
Further investigation for the Pegas is needed now


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## aramco (29 Nov 2018)

hi don't know whether this is still relevant. Like you I needed / wanted - more wanted I think - another scroll saw as my record power did not cut the mustard, so after looking at what I was cutting at the time and where I will eventually go i opted for the ex 30, expensive £800 but well worth it and I have never regretted it,I did look very hard at a second hand hegner, but, it appeared there had to be a whole load of money to be spent on them to make them a viable proposition, and a new one although well built , was too expensive, I did talk to Brian - claymore- about his and as I want to eventually do larger patterns ie Charles dearings etc ,and large intarsia again Brian that is why I went for the ex 30, it took forever to change blades with the record power but it takes no time at all with this one, I was just really getting to grips with it and have had an operation on my back and have not been in my shop since maybe over this weekend, I have been saying that for three weeks now so hopefully this will be the one, in the end everything comes down to what one can afford - bit like cars - on a last note,don't look at where you are now with your scroll sawing look to where you want to be in say 5 years time and which ever saw you buy just have above all else fun.

John


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## AES (29 Nov 2018)

Good points there John. And BTW, hope the back op produces the hoped-for results. "Gute Besserung" and all that mate.


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## aramco (29 Nov 2018)

the backside dropped out of the op ,no use at all in my left foot and that was the good one


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## AES (29 Nov 2018)

Oh dear ........... Very sorry to hear that mate.


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## jonbee56 (29 Nov 2018)

Thanks for more input again guys & very sorry to hear about your (John) predicament.


.... Thats the problem with the Record, its a fiddly pipper to change blades. I've already put thumb turn nuts on top and bottom, but its still awkward.

I looked at the options and was decided on a new AWFS18, but am going to hold on for the Yandels sale on January 5th. If their hegner 2s is reduced to anything near comparison, then i'll get that .

My problem with the EX30 isn't the cost, it's the footprint being 1100mm long against 620mm. The larger machine just won't fit in my workshop, but the advice is appreciated


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## jonbee56 (29 Nov 2018)

...... & its a good idea looking forward to 5 years hobby as I'm in semi retirement now, so as the work time diminishes, the leisure time expands. I just need to insulate to workshop by the end of this year


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