# Shoe Rack Project, some design advice sought.



## wizer (7 Sep 2005)

I'm not keen on starting one project while another is going on (Conservatory Cabinet). But I now have my Triton kit and I wanted a quick project to get used to using it. So I have knocked this up in sketchup.







Not rocket science (I hope) and tbh not really using much of the Tritons functions. The plan does not show it (coz I dunno how to draw it), but I am going to use through M&T's on the top and bottom rail and hidden M&T's verticle rails. On to the questions.

1. With regards to the dowels, How should I attatch these? Not sure wether to fit them through the wood or to hide the joint. What tool would I use to do this? (I don't have a pillar drill)

2. I have designed the frame using 44x44mm pine batons. The only reason I chose this size was that I had a scrap piece lying around when I was measuring up. Do you think this is the best dimension wood to use for the frame? Is 44x44mm a standard size?

3. The dowels are 32mm in the plan. This was just a guess, is this a standard size for pine dowel?


That's it for now. Your comments on this would be very much apprecieated.


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## jasonB (7 Sep 2005)

44x44 is standard 2x2 PAR so no problem there. I would go a bit smaller on the dowel 18 - 25mm will be more than adequate. 

A bridle joint may be better for the top corner, there could be a risk of the short end grain splitting when you wedge the joint if the mortice is too close to the end of the wood.

If the heel of the shoe is to hook onto the upper of the three dowels then the 400mm length is a bit large unles you have got big feet.

Jason


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## wizer (7 Sep 2005)

My trainer measures about 350mm. The show is meant to just sit on top of the dowels. The heel was not intended to hook over the top, I may run some rubber strips on the bottom dowel to stop slide. I made it 50mm bigger 'just in case'. Do you think I should make it exactly 350mm? Proportion is something I need to learn in my designs.

Could you expand on 'Bridle Joints'? What are these and what tool does it require?

Thanks for the quick response


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## wizer (7 Sep 2005)

ahhh, Googled Bridle Joints and got this:






This is a great idea Jason, I want to use this project to test out as many joints as possible. Thanks for that idea. I guess I could do this witht he router table, in the same way as the other mortices.


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## jasonB (7 Sep 2005)

You didn't need to look as far as google

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/howto/joint ... /index.php

I would reduce the 400mm as the two outer dowels will have their cts about 360mm apart so the trainer will need to be placed very carefully to avoid it tipping one way or the other.


Jason


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## wizer (7 Sep 2005)

cheers Jason, taken that onboard. Altered the plan to 300mm giving my roughly 110mm centres.


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## wizer (7 Sep 2005)

Could someone advise on how to fit the dowels? Would it be a case of just drilling holes the same size as the dowel? Or would there be a cleverer way to do this?


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## Chris Knight (7 Sep 2005)

Drilling holes to fit the dowels would work as long as both sides of the frame are accurately marked out and your holes are at exactly 90 degrees to the sides. Holes very slightly larger would allow some play until they were glued up and this is probably necessary if you don't have the means to achieve the condition mentioned above, otherwise you will end up with a twisted framework.

I recommend a slower setting glue than PVA for joining the dowels to the frame. Epoxy would be ideal as it will gap fill any imperfect fit in the dowel/frame joints.


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## jasonB (7 Sep 2005)

As you don't have a drill press the holes could be plunge cut with a suitable router bit (another reason for the smaller sizes). If you make a template out of 6mm ply or MDF to take a guide bush you could flip the template to get a mirror hole pattern on either side.

Glue would be strong enough to hold it all together, fox wedges would be stronger but you only get one go at assembly with them so not worth the risk at this stage.

Jason


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## Gill (7 Sep 2005)

Another way to drill holes vertically without a press is to clamp a square piece of timber as a guide so that you can position your drill against it, judging if it is vertical either by eye or using a spirit level. Then you simply plunge, sliding the drill down the guiding timber.

Gill


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## Newbie_Neil (8 Sep 2005)

Hi Jason



jasonB":1t8tgsvd said:


> Glue would be strong enough to hold it all together, fox wedges would be stronger



What are Fox wedges? Is there another name for them?

Cheers
Neil (wondering how you can slice and dice a fox for woodworking purposes)


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## DaveL (8 Sep 2005)

Newbie_Neil":chyxvlbk said:


> What are Fox wedges?



I have never used then, but I think this is where you have a wedge in the end of a tenon that goes into a blind hole, 8) thats why you only get one go at putting it together. 8-[ 

No doubt if I have the wrong end of the stick, Jason will be long to turn it around for me. :roll: :wink:


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## jasonB (8 Sep 2005)

Thats the one Dave. If the wedge is too tight you won't be able to close the joint, too loose and the joint may be too loose or weak.

Wizer to keep the through wedged tennon look you could always do the ends like a windsor chair but you will need one of these :lol: 

Jason


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## devonwoody (8 Sep 2005)

Dowelling finished sizes never seem to match my set of drill bits.
Its either imperial/metric and then I reckon the dowelling has shrunk in store. 

So if you haven't yet purchased the dowel take your measuring device with you (calliper) and verify that you have a drill bit to match.

Another way to attach the rods across (dowel or 1x1") would be to use 1/4" dowelling through the frames into the crossbars, most probably 1/4" dowel would be OK and usually to size.


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## DaveL (8 Sep 2005)

jasonB":e8s7jloz said:


> Wizer to keep the through wedged tennon look you could always do the ends like a windsor chair but you will need one of these :lol:


 
Well I did though wedged tennons on the dowel stretchers on some chairs by using a simple tennoning jig on the router table. Just clamp the jig in place and the rotate the dowel against it instead of sliding the jig as you would for a flat tennon.  

It works for a dowel but not on bits of branch for rustic stuff.


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## wizer (8 Sep 2005)

Dave have you got a picture of that jig?


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## DaveL (8 Sep 2005)

WiZeR,

Have a look here


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## wizer (8 Sep 2005)

Cheers Dave, call me slow, but I can't work out how it works for dowels?


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## wizer (8 Sep 2005)

Also what does the board think of these?






http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 8&ts=68221


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## DaveL (8 Sep 2005)

Hi Slow, :roll: 

What I did was clamp the jig to the table so the centre of the dowel is inline with the centre of the router bit. Set the stop to give the correct length of tennon. Then start the router, slide the dowel along the jig on to the bit and then rotate the dowel against the side of the jig. If your bit is not bigger than the length of tennon you are trying to cut, you will need to pull the dowel back and rotate it to remove all of the waste. I have a 1 1/4" cutter that I use with this jig and as most of the tennons I have cut where 3/4" or 1" it was not a problem. 8)


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## wizer (8 Sep 2005)

hmm thanks dave I _think _I get it now


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## DaveL (8 Sep 2005)

Hi WiZeR,



WiZeR":1x4wui2b said:


> Also what does the board think of these?


 
I have use something similar, but now have a cheap pillar drill like this: 





This one is twice the price of the stand but if you shop round you should be able to pick one up for £25 ~ £30 pounds. They are not high precision tools but I have two now, they are very useful.


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## devonwoody (8 Sep 2005)

Wizer you should be able to pick up a drill press for not much more than the old accessory drill stand, I 've got both and I have only used to old accessory once in the last 3 years.


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## wizer (8 Sep 2005)

Thanks, I'd assumed the cheapest pillar drill would cost me 90-100. I do have a space issue (i.e no space) but I guess I can squeeze it in somewhere.


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