# General plywood advice



## Matted

Hi all, 

I realise birch ply is probably the best ply there is, but lets say I want to build some basic shelves or a basic cabinet, which will be painted. 

in this case is birch ply the way to go, or can a cheaper ply be used, are there any downsides?

I'm sorry this is such a naff question, but the ply options out there are a little overwhelming for someone new to this


For example - this is half the price of super lovely birch ply, if I used this would there be any noticeable difference?

https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/Selex-S ... 9899?qnt=1


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## transatlantic

Matted":uv63otay said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I realise birch ply is probably the best ply there is, but lets say I want to build some basic shelves or a basic cabinet, which will be painted.
> 
> in this case is birch ply the way to go, or can a cheaper ply be used, are there any downsides?
> 
> I'm sorry this is such a naff question, but the ply options out there are a little overwhelming for someone new to this
> 
> 
> For example - this is half the price of super lovely birch ply, if I used this would there be any noticeable difference?
> 
> https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/Selex-S ... 9899?qnt=1



If you go and look at that product in person, you will probably find it has a lot of defects. Which if you're painting, is not really an issue, but you will probably have to fill a fair few spots and give it a good sanding to get a nice uniform surface for painting.

Birch tends to have more plys, which helps with it being more stable, but again, probably not a huge issue


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## Doug71

The ply you have linked to is over priced and low qualty, only really suitable for construction purposes, will be very rough and lots of defects. You will get hardwood ply for that price or birch for not much more. Hardwood ply is sometimes a bit splintery when you cut it. I always think birch ply is worth the extra if you want to make a decent job.


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## Beau

Ply is not ideal for shelves as the loading is all in one plane and only half the layers of ply are working in your favour. Having said that if it's not a long span or heavily loaded you should be OK. Cheap plys tend to have more cavities and courser grained wood so more filling required prior to painting. Birch as you say is probably your best bet for easily available ply. I have seen some beech ply but it was pretty pricy. Also there used to be a product which was drawside ply which had all the veneers running in the same plane so lovely and strong but again very expensive.


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## LancsRick

What size are you talking? MDF with a horizontal reinforcing strip may be a better option.


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## Matted

LancsRick":39tp9aiu said:


> What size are you talking? MDF with a horizontal reinforcing strip may be a better option.



mdf could be an option - but weirdly I'm keen to use ply as I have a number of projects in mind and I want to practice and get comfortable with ply. 

Also, this will be for a bookcase in a busy hallway with kids and an oap who regularly drives their wheelchair into things! I think ply might be better.

That said - a combination of ply and mdf might be worth considering. 


BTW, to everyone else, thank you for your help,!


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## NickM

I've been looking at this too. Is there a "go to" place for decent quality birch ply, or is it just a case of scouring the internet to find value for money options?


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## merlin

I always use a company called Creffields in Reading, apart from a small stock of timber its all they sell.
They are very knowledgeable and help if they can, delivery is good all depending where you are.

Merlin


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## Bodgers

Matted":2y66t36z said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I realise birch ply is probably the best ply there is, but lets say I want to build some basic shelves or a basic cabinet, which will be painted.
> 
> in this case is birch ply the way to go, or can a cheaper ply be used, are there any downsides?
> 
> I'm sorry this is such a naff question, but the ply options out there are a little overwhelming for someone new to this
> 
> 
> For example - this is half the price of super lovely birch ply, if I used this would there be any noticeable difference?
> 
> https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/Selex-S ... 9899?qnt=1



This stuff is a bit of a sweet spot plywood wise, I have found. It is much better than the far eastern (usually Meranti faced) 'hardwood' throughout plywood that's typically sold at the major chains. Usually there are a very low amount of voids and the faces are pretty good. For softwood plywood, it doesn't get much better. If you can pick through and select it in person you can avoid bad sheets. Typically it is 11 ply, which is not far of the typical you get with 18mm Birch. 

Having said all that, if you can find a really decent supplier of good grade Birch ply, you can get a price that equals or betters that.

I have now found a source of 18mm Birch plywood where I can get full sheets for £45 including VAT. - and it is good stuff with no plugs etc.

If you are painting it birch ply is a little overkill though.


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## rafezetter

Matted":oy344u8t said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I realise birch ply is probably the best ply there is, but lets say I want to build some basic shelves or a basic cabinet, which will be painted.
> 
> in this case is birch ply the way to go, or can a cheaper ply be used, are there any downsides?
> 
> I'm sorry this is such a naff question, but the ply options out there are a little overwhelming for someone new to this
> 
> For example - this is half the price of super lovely birch ply, if I used this would there be any noticeable difference?
> 
> https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/Selex-S ... 9899?qnt=1




I've used it - it's AWFUL - full of defects, misalignd layers that leads to bumps, bits of metal and often large voids in the layers in the middle of the sheet where they think it won't be noticed.

Use it for shuttering or as a base to be clad over with something, but otherwise avoid for anything furniture / shelving wise ...

hmm about the only way it's good for shelving is if you bought 5mm MDF (or ply) and clad both sides of the plywood for a nice thick shelf that would be less prone to sagging than thinner MDF alone, which is notorious for it over wider spans, then added a nice slighty deeper than the shelf thickness front edge in wood (to combat sagging even more) - or more MDF and painted.


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## rafezetter

Bodgers":9lzhgdl7 said:


> I have now found a source of 18mm Birch plywood where I can get full sheets for £45 including VAT. - and it is good stuff with no plugs etc.



Well? Do you have anything to share with the class Bodgers?


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## NickM

merlin":2lb5w526 said:


> I always use a company called Creffields in Reading, apart from a small stock of timber its all they sell.
> They are very knowledgeable and help if they can, delivery is good all depending where you are.
> 
> Merlin



Thanks. I'm near Basingstoke so only half an hour or so away from Reading. Do you mind my asking roughly how much they charge for a full (8' x 4') board of 18mm birch ply. (I can give them a call if not.)


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## NickM

rafezetter":kbhhjxea said:


> Bodgers":kbhhjxea said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have now found a source of 18mm Birch plywood where I can get full sheets for £45 including VAT. - and it is good stuff with no plugs etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well? Do you have anything to share with the class Bodgers?
Click to expand...


Yes! Is this source a secret?!


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## merlin

Hello Nick,
I'm not sure from memory as the client bought the last lot of sheets himself, I did but some 9mm a few weeks ago though and they were £25 each.

Merlin


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## johnbest981

NickM":3ro9zkhb said:


> merlin":3ro9zkhb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I always use a company called Creffields in Reading, apart from a small stock of timber its all they sell.
> They are very knowledgeable and help if they can, delivery is good all depending where you are.
> 
> Merlin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. I'm near Basingstoke so only half an hour or so away from Reading. Do you mind my asking roughly how much they charge for a full (8' x 4') board of 18mm birch ply. (I can give them a call if not.)
Click to expand...


I'm in Andover but spend quite a bit of time in Basingstoke/Newbury and I've been struggling to get to the bottom of a "where to get any decent, preferably Baltic Birch Plywood" saga for a long while, on the Creffeilds website there was a button for "opening an account" with them which to me sounds like they only deal with trade? 

I've emailed them to see if they'd sell some sheets to a hobbiest - so if they reply I'll ask for a price then.

Would love to find a place to find some birch ply at 45 quid a sheet as mentioned in here though!


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## merlin

Just give them a ring, they know their stuff and will let you have as much or as little as you want without an account.
I had some from them a while ago and it wasn’t a problem for them to let me pick what I wanted out of a pack.

Merlin


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## G S Haydon

I've been very impressed with Poplar Ply. Only used it for a short while but it's nice to use, very clean and with a good face.


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## thetyreman

I like the look of poplar ply, gonna have to give it a try...


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## Bodgers

rafezetter":1t9bewkv said:


> Bodgers":1t9bewkv said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have now found a source of 18mm Birch plywood where I can get full sheets for £45 including VAT. - and it is good stuff with no plugs etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well? Do you have anything to share with the class Bodgers?
Click to expand...

Apologies, lost track of this thread.

The answer is: Fall Timber, near Bedale

Haven't got a better a shot, but this give you an impression of one of the faces. Zero plugs, it is super stuff.


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## Horsee1

MDF with a solid lipping would take the knocks just fine. Tulip/poplar is cheap, clean and takes paint well.

Sounds like more work but painting out the end grain on ply can be annoying. 

18mm birch ply at £45 a sheet sounds like a great price including vat! 
I recently paid £57 for 12mm with the vat.
They obviously saw me coming from a mile off but I needed it on the day and it was the closest place.


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## woodbloke66

Beau":3or8j2yu said:


> Ply is not ideal for shelves as the loading is all in one plane and only half the layers of ply are working in your favour.



I tend to agree and as a large bookcase/shelving arrangement is in SWIMBO's cross hair sight, it's something I need to give a bit of serious thought to...there are ways round it, but it's convoluted - Rob


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## pollys13

Whats that square your using to set the track?
Cheers.


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## Teejay

Bodgers":1usbnwb6 said:


> rafezetter":1usbnwb6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bodgers":1usbnwb6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have now found a source of 18mm Birch plywood where I can get full sheets for £45 including VAT. - and it is good stuff with no plugs etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well? Do you have anything to share with the class Bodgers?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apologies, lost track of this thread.
> 
> The answer is: Fall Timber, near Bedale
> 
> Haven't got a better a shot, but this give you an impression of one of the faces. Zero plugs, it is super stuff.
Click to expand...


I have the same plunge saw and rail as you. I saw a thread which said you could use the other major manufacturer's rails with this, like the Makita which is actually the cheapest. From my own searching, it does not look like this is true, at least not in the sense of them being cross-compatible (combining a dewalt rail with a Makita). I am sceptical that others can even be used with the Dewalt saw because the Dewalt connector is mounted in the middle and the others mount on the edge?


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## Doingupthehouse

Teejay":eafoyuum said:


> I have the same plunge saw and rail as you. I saw a thread which said you could use the other major manufacturer's rails with this, like the Makita which is actually the cheapest. From my own searching, it does not look like this is true, at least not in the sense of them being cross-compatible (combining a dewalt rail with a Makita). I am sceptical that others can even be used with the Dewalt saw because the Dewalt connector is mounted in the middle and the others mount on the edge?



Don’t know about the Makita rail, but it runs very happily on Festool track. Not a good idea to swap from one make to another though, as you have to adjust the friction guide thingies, so best to make your choice and stick to it. I prefer the Festool rail myself, although sometimes miss the ability to cut on both sides of the track. 

Here’s mine...





Simon


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## Teejay

I agree. Yesterday I decided it was too much agro and ordered a third rail to be cut down (I'm thinking 1m & 50cm might be useful)?


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## Bodgers

pollys13":3loeet7u said:


> Whats that square your using to set the track?
> Cheers.


Swanson Metric speed square

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## Bodgers

Teejay":3j49dnsh said:


> I have the same plunge saw and rail as you. I saw a thread which said you could use the other major manufacturer's rails with this, like the Makita which is actually the cheapest. From my own searching, it does not look like this is true, at least not in the sense of them being cross-compatible (combining a dewalt rail with a Makita). I am sceptical that others can even be used with the Dewalt saw because the Dewalt connector is mounted in the middle and the others mount on the edge?



As doingupthehouse said you can use it on other tracks.

You have readjust the cams.

And yes, one big caveat: because the DeWalt rail has a centre ridge and not an offset one, you can't joint the DeWalt rails to Festool or Lidl rails for example. But the saw itself does work on Festool/Lidl type rails.



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## Teejay

Thanks for clarifying. Those who use tracksaws, what do you find the optimal rail length to be for most of the jobs you need it on?


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## Bodgers

Teejay":23swbh1m said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Those who use tracksaws, what do you find the optimal rail length to be for most of the jobs you need it on?


I use the 1.5 meter ones the most. I have the shorter Lidl ones but I don't use them that much, as by the time I am down to those shorter lengths, I'm switching to the table saw.



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## Turnr77

JackWood":99fgcuk4 said:



> "in this case is birch ply the way to go, or can a cheaper ply be used, are there any downsides?"
> if you need cheap and high quality plywood, I can advise www.plyterra.com . they helped me . I really liked the quality of plywood, it’s been a year of use, and plywood still looks like it is new. In general, very high quality plywood from this company.



You bought plywood from Russia?


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## petermillard

Teejay":2p8udz62 said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Those who use tracksaws, what do you find the optimal rail length to be for most of the jobs you need it on?


About 250mm longer than the one you’re using  I find the ‘standard’ length rail (1400) to be pretty handy, though it’s useful to have a short one when working in tight spaces. And a long one, if you have the space to store it. 

Re. guiderail compatibility, pretty much all saws will run on Festool (or Festool-pattern) rails, even the ones who’ve gone their own way in rail design (DeWalt, Mafell/Bosch) as, back when Festool were the only game in town, any manufacturer hoping to entice you away to their saw system realised what a big ask that would be if it also involved changing all your rails...


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