# Fitted Cabinets, which material would you use?



## DangerousDave (29 Jan 2009)

Hello all,
Inspired by Dan's latest creations in painted MRMDF, here's my SU design for fitted cabinets for a family room

















The original plan was to use 15mm MRMDF but now I'm having second thoughts. I compiled a cutting list using the excellent WoodWorks optimization software (http://woodworks.at) and the MDF will be about £350. I'm now thinking about using solid wood (jointing up panels from narrow boards, faced ply for backs) perhaps Ash or Beech with a natural finish instead of painted. Its gonna take a bit of mental gymnastics to work out quantities from my original cutting list, not sure how much more expensive this will be but at least I can buy sawn boards as I'm able to plane and thickness. This one's for my own house and I'm really coming round to the idea of a timber finish as opposed to painted MDF. Also jointing up panels would make a nice change from cutting endless amounts of man made boards :roll: I would need to rejig the design a bit to account for the carcass joints (originally allowed for simple butt joints in the carcasses with the MDF). What would you guys do?


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## Imperial (29 Jan 2009)

Make it from a combination of Unfinished Veneered MDF and solid timber in the same or contrasting material. Iron on edging is very easy to trim or you can lip in solid if you prefer. Best of both worlds IMHO!


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## Karl (29 Jan 2009)

I wouldn't even entertain the idea of doing that lot in solid wood. Veneered MDF is the way to go.

I find the real wood iron-on edging quite difficult to use - it is more difficult than the stuff made for MFC. Solid wood lipping is the way to go. You won't be surprised to learn that Dan T posted a simple jig in the Jig section for the trimming of this lipping.

Cheers

Karl


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## jasonB (29 Jan 2009)

If you are leaning towards a timber finish then I would go with veneered MDF as above with either solid or iron on edging. this is 26mm board with iron on edging, this is 19mm with solid lippings.

If you do go for painted then 15mm is a bit on the thin side.

Jason


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## DangerousDave (29 Jan 2009)

Thanks chaps, looks like veneered MDF with solid lipping may be the way to go. Or maybe I shoud just go back to plan A and go for painted MRMDF. :? Jason, thats really nice work I love the finish on the bar. I was going with 15mm as the last lot of carcassing I did was in 18mm MFC which seemed a bit heavy. Although that 26mm board looks really good. There isn't really any big spans, so I was thinking 15mm might be ok, but now I'm not so sure... :?


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## Mattty (29 Jan 2009)

:shock: Thats a lot of cabinets! :shock: 

I think i would be tempted to go for painted, purely to keep the room feeling a bit lighter. All that wood in a room that doesn't look massive may be a bit over powering. On the other hand it may look lovely like an old library... Sigh i'm no help at all :roll:


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## mailee (29 Jan 2009)

I am afraid I have to agree with Mattty on this one. It reminds me of a post office with all those open boxes, sorry. I would personally break them up a little. I too think that Painted MDF is the way to go as there is a lot of material there. JMHO :wink:


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## MikeG. (29 Jan 2009)

karl":1izuugu9 said:


> I wouldn't even entertain the idea of doing that lot in solid wood.
> Karl



I would!!

You're going to be living with it, so do the best possible job.............and that will be natural timber wherever possible. You might re-jig your design a bit to suit the new materials, and I would certainly do any backs in veneered ply (even MDF, although I haven't yet!). Doing timber furniture rather than cheapo storage units will transform this into a wonderful project.

Mike


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## jasonB (29 Jan 2009)

It will be a lot of work in solid timber, assuming from your costings there will be about 20 sheets of 15mm for the carcases thats 320bd ft or 27cu ft without any allowance for waste!

Jason


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## BradNaylor (30 Jan 2009)

You won't be surprised to know that I side with Jason and Karl - the very thought of tackling this in solid wood is bringing me out in a sweat!

For a painted finish go with 18mm MR MDF - 15mm is just too thin.

For a woody finish use 18mm veneered MDF lipped with strips of solid wood - SO much better than nasty iron-on edging! The foolproof method of trimming the lippings with a router can be found here.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=27142

The end result will be just as good as of you had used solid wood, and will cost a fraction as much. Its also a lot quicker!

I can't help feeling that you've missed something with your design, though. 

You could squeeze another cabinet in over the door!

:wink: 

Cheers
Dan


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## Waka (30 Jan 2009)

I'm with Mike on this one, I'd certainly tackle this with real wood, it will look so much better and the finish on real wood surpasses any finish you can get on MDF.

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## Geno (30 Jan 2009)

Ding Ding!!

Sounds like there would be a nice wee contest of MDF vs the proper stuff!!


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## Chris Knight (30 Jan 2009)

I wouldn't dream of doing it in solid wood - it's a job made for MDF.


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## MikeG. (30 Jan 2009)

OK, as the politicians say, let me clarify my position!!!  

_*As designed*_, these units are clearly suited to construction from a sheet material, albeit they should have solid timber lippings. They look a bit like glorified pigeon-holes at the moment (which may be the fault of the SU process).

However, redesigned, they could be made into a series of pieces of furniture with a similar storage capacity but a very different look, and would make a wonderful series of solid wood projects. The first picture, for instance, shows something that could easily become a break-front bookcase with low-level cabinet.

That is what I didn't say explicitly enough first time around.

This is the choice, then..........quick, cheap utilitarian fittings in MDF, or slow, pricier but quality pieces of furniture in solid wood. Given the time, money (and skills) I would back the latter every time.

Mike


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## DangerousDave (30 Jan 2009)

Thanks for your thoughts chaps, I appear to have once again opened a can of worms  Now that you mention it, it does look like Post Office pigeon holes! I was going for a sort of library look, the units will mostly be housing books (we have a lot of books). The reason I considered solid timber was I was reading the chapter on carcass construction in Joyce the other night and the challenge of doing it this way seemed appealing, plus I would have the pleasure of looking at it every day...
But it would be expensive, and more difficult etc...
Dan, more cabs above the door? Surely that would be overkill    
TBH I think its going to be painted MRMDF, I think Matty's right that a wood finish would be overpowering, although I really like the look of Jason's stuff in veneered MDF... :? 
Well, in any case I'm going to completely redo the SU design, I'd have to alter it anyhow to allow for 18mm material.
I can always go to town on the timber worktops (I know a man who has some teak...  )
If I do go with veneered sheets it'll def be with solid lipping, thanks for the tip Dan
I'll post the new (non- Post Office) design when its done.
Thanks to all for the input, most appreciated  
D


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## Mattty (30 Jan 2009)

Dan Tovey":1q4f8izk said:


> You won't be surprised to know that I side with Jason and Karl - the very thought of tackling this in solid wood is bringing me out in a sweat!
> 
> For a painted finish go with 18mm MR MDF - 15mm is just too thin.
> 
> ...



Has anyone ever tried one of these-






They basically do the same job as Dan's router jig.

"This is a special purpose planer for flushing work in the manufacture of furniture.It is ideal for flushing strips on edges.It is provided with a large support surface to allow easy, safe and controlable operation.The support base is height adjustable with respect to the cutting plane of the knife holder.A powerful 1050 watt high torque motor rotates the cutter block at 11100 rpm resulting in a fine workpiece finish.Weighing 7.7 kg you do not need to exert pressure and it's weight balances the tool perfectly on the workpiece.Supplied with replaceable and reversible hard metal knives which do not require adjustment and with a dust port.Maximum cutting width is 55mm."


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## BradNaylor (1 Feb 2009)

I've never actually tried one Matt, but I was in the market for one a couple of years ago. In the end I solved the problem with my router jig and saved myself £500. :lol: 

I keep meaning to play around with a jig for an electric planer to do the same job - that's basically what the Verutex is.

If you buy one I'll borrow it though.

:wink: 

Cheers
Dan


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## woodbloke (1 Feb 2009)

I used one of they years ago (or something similar)...very nice bit of kit :wink: - Rob


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## JonnyD (1 Feb 2009)

I have one of these.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Lame ... 785588.htm

It has gone up by £300 since i bought mine. :shock: It is an extremely accurate and well made machine. Due to the way the cutter block works the planed wood has a shear cut so the finish is excellent. 

Jon


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## Mattty (1 Feb 2009)

Dan Tovey":26prcymt said:


> I've never actually tried one Matt, but I was in the market for one a couple of years ago. In the end I solved the problem with my router jig and saved myself £500. :lol:
> 
> I keep meaning to play around with a jig for an electric planer to do the same job - that's basically what the Verutex is.
> 
> ...



I picked one up from Auction for £40 it came with a detail sander and a 7" polisher 8) 

I haven't tried it yet and its a bit scruffy, still :lol:


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## rileytoolworks (1 Feb 2009)

I have to agree with the comments that for me, there are too many cabinets, but it's your room. If you want a timber finish, I'd use veneered blockboard. Trust me - you'll appreciate the weight saving over MDF when installing that many wall units. (I know the misery of back pain - we're old drinking buddies!). Are you going for a modern, clean look, or a more traditional design (with face frames)?


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## BradNaylor (2 Feb 2009)

I've never used veneered blockboard; mainly because my local suppliers only stock MDF.

I met a bloke at an exhibition once who swore by it for his kitchen cabinets simply so that he could say that his kitchens were built entirely of solid wood!

Now that MDF is getting heavier by the year maybe I should try blockboard.

Cheers
Dan


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## DangerousDave (2 Feb 2009)

RILEY":14vkly9e said:


> I have to agree with the comments that for me, there are too many cabinets, but it's your room. If you want a timber finish, I'd use veneered blockboard. Trust me - you'll appreciate the weight saving over MDF when installing that many wall units. (I know the misery of back pain - we're old drinking buddies!). Are you going for a modern, clean look, or a more traditional design (with face frames)?



Originally, I wanted a clean bright look, hence painted cabinets. Although seeing some of Jasons stuff, veneered MDF with lipping/face frame might be the way to go. Was watching an episode of Frasier last night and noticed that in their apartment they have nice white MDF type cabinets/shelf units that have a solid wood face frame which is a very nice look. TBH the design is based on necessity more than anything else. We have a lot of stuff (well, SWMBO mostly) and my thinking was the more storage the better. Using sheet material would also mean a quicker job. I think the thing to do is try out a lot of different designs on SU. I'm really starting to hate the original design now :? 
Riley, I've seen veneered blockboard doors, but never seen it sold in sheet form. Don't know if my usual supplier stocks it. The weight saving aspect is appealing tho...


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## Oryxdesign (2 Feb 2009)

Dan Tovey":33ikvqwi said:


> I've never used veneered blockboard; mainly because my local suppliers only stock MDF.
> 
> I met a bloke at an exhibition once who swore by it for his kitchen cabinets simply so that he could say that his kitchens were built entirely of solid wood!
> 
> ...



It isn't anywhere near as stable as MDF, the stuff we used to use had voids too and I don't think that's unusual. The finaspan stuff with a corrigated core looks good though.
Simon


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## ByronBlack (2 Feb 2009)

Can I ask a stupid question here? I've been tasked to something similar, but on a smaller scale - some boxes for our new bathroom. What is the best way to join MDF for these kind of units?

I've only ever used glued and screwed butt joints, and have break-out and difficulty in alignment - is there a better solution?


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## Paul Chapman (2 Feb 2009)

ByronBlack":2bcweqce said:


> is there a better solution?



Biscuits.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Oryxdesign (2 Feb 2009)

I like dominos, pocket hole screws and glue. I likie the pocket hole screws because they bite across the layers rather than into the end of them. Biscuits will work fine but dominos give alignment in two directions rather than one. Carcass screws are ok too after all they only need to work until the glue dries.


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## ByronBlack (2 Feb 2009)

Would you use a regular glue for MDF such as titebond? Or is there something that is more suitable like a poly glue or something?


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## Oryxdesign (2 Feb 2009)

I've just tried Titebond because everybody on here seems to rate it but having tried it I'm going back to my regular PVA.


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## Paul Chapman (2 Feb 2009)

I always use PVA.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Oryxdesign (2 Feb 2009)

Perhaps it would help if you left out some of the perps.







Oak faced MDF


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## DangerousDave (3 Feb 2009)

Oryxdesign":ogbbmyym said:


> Perhaps it would help if you left out some of the perps...



I think you're right. This is what I'm doing with the new design. It'll help thin out the cutting list a bit as well


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## DangerousDave (11 Feb 2009)

OK, complete radical change of plan. I've dismantled the entertainment unit I made for the study and re-fitted it in the family room. It took a bit of tweaking, but I think it looks ok;











This means I can make something really nice for this space;






Was thinking about what Mike Garnham said earlier in this thread, and it is an opportunity to make something really nice for this space. Don't know what though :roll: My concern now is would a beautiful solid timber unit for this corner look out of place with my melamine faced chipboard creation opposite it... :? Oh, and another thing... the study is now devoid of cabinets and is crying out for a library system...or a nice breakfront cabinet...and possibly a nice writing desk...in quarter sawn oak maybe...


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## DangerousDave (13 Feb 2009)

OK, finally this is the SU design for that space






Its a radical departure from the original design, which I now hate :x Its definitely a major improvement and I'm glad I did away with all those post office pigeon holes. The material for the new cabinet is 18mm veneered MDF with hardwood lipping. Haven't decided which wood yet. I'll see what I can get hold of. Your thoughts/comments/criticisms on the new design are very welcome  I'll post WIP pics once it's done.
Cheers
Dave


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## ByronBlack (13 Feb 2009)

Is it wise to store wine in a heated room near a radiator and a large window?


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## Mattty (13 Feb 2009)

ByronBlack":xqs6derz said:


> Is it wise to store wine in a heated room near a radiator and a large window?



Thats just a nights supply surely.. :lol:


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## DangerousDave (14 Feb 2009)

ByronBlack":r8tvighw said:


> Is it wise to store wine in a heated room near a radiator and a large window?



Good point :? 



Matty":r8tvighw said:


> Thats just a nights supply surely..



You're right  I was especially chuffed to find a bottle of Jamesons in the Google 3D Wharehouse!!!


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