# The Best Chairs Ever Designed!



## mrpercysnodgrass

This article is in todays Telegraph.

I'm surprised they did not include any Charles Rennie Mackintosh chairs.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/int ... me=2445020


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## MickCheese

Some of those look exceedingly uncomfortable. 

Mick


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## deserter

Number 11 is only one I could almost like, the rest I'm afraid look either ugly or unfit for use as a chair to me. 


~Nil carborundum illegitemi~


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## Jacob

Is this a new edition of 1000 Chairs? 
Bogger I'l have to buy another copy!
It's an excellent book covering a big range. Much better than the 500 Chairs series (..cabinets, ...tables) which are a relatively dismal trudge around the post modern.


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## Graham Orm

Who chose the chairs to put in it, a primary school teacher? How can molded plastic be the best design ever? :roll:


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## bugbear

MickCheese":1gyfm4gl said:


> Some of those look exceedingly uncomfortable.
> 
> Mick



I think most of them are designed to be looked at, or to impress neighbours, or to be part of "house beautiful" shoots.

Sitting - not so much. Chair shaped sculptures in the main.

BugBear


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## Dangermouse

bugbear":1wibnm9i said:


> MickCheese":1wibnm9i said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some of those look exceedingly uncomfortable.
> 
> Mick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think most of them are designed to be looked at, or to impress neighbours, or to be part of "house beautiful" shoots.
> 
> Sitting - not so much. Chair shaped sculptures in the main.
> 
> BugBear
Click to expand...


Totally agree. Some of them look like and would give you, a big pain in the ass, thats for sure. :shock: :lol:


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## Phil Pascoe

Grayorm":2z4thryc said:


> Who chose the chairs to put in it, a primary school teacher? How can molded plastic be the best design ever? :roll:



Much depends whether it's designed to fit your arrse or impress your neighbours, I suppose.


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## Jacob

Modern design worries people doesn't it? It was all modern once you know!


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## Sawyer

How can a list with such a title exclude anything from the eighteenth century :?: I know taste is subjective, but ....


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## MickCheese

Recently I was watching an episode of the antiques roadshow where they were falling over themselves for a Francis Bacon stool..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj2y/features/stool

Now maybe it's me and I do realise taste is personal but this just looks like a forerunner of an ikea piece. 

Is it just me or is this a case of the Emperors New Clothes?

Mick


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## Jacob

The book is '1000 chairs', not 'The Best Chairs Ever Designed'.
They say: "Our selection for this survey of chairs begin in the early 19C because it was, with the advent of industrialisation, that the first attempts were made to shift the chair from crafted object to that of the designed product" which, they argue, leads to the Modern Movement.
The intro to the book is very interesting (in the old edition, I don't know about the new one). The theme is 'connections' - how designs relate to one another as they develop.


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## mrpercysnodgrass

Some of these are pure design, an art object, to be looked at and talked about, others are a solution to needs like the Thonet ( silent 'h' ) chairs, which were the first truly mass produced chairs that were both functional and cheap which is why just about every cafe in the world was furnished with them. Or the plastic stacking chairs, where would schools and institutions be without them. Others attempt to be both beautiful and functional and I think succeed like the Pierre Paulin chair and the Erik Gunnar Aspiund ones. Not that I have sat in them but they look comfy. One chair not in this article which looks great but has to be one of the most uncomfortable chairs I have ever sat in is the mackintosh chairs made for the Willow tea rooms in Glasgow, it was like sitting in a correction chair.


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## Jacob

MickCheese":2zmub8c6 said:


> Recently I was watching an episode of the antiques roadshow where they were falling over themselves for a Francis Bacon stool..
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006mj2y/features/stool
> 
> Now maybe it's me and I do realise taste is personal but this just looks like a forerunner of an ikea piece.
> 
> Is it just me or is this a case of the Emperors New Clothes?
> 
> Mick


You have missed the point - it's explained in your linked page: "Although the stool looks very ordinary in many ways, it has great historical importance......." in other words it's not about the design at all.


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## mrpercysnodgrass

Sawyer":1h0ypne7 said:


> How can a list with such a title exclude anything from the eighteenth century :?: I know taste is subjective, but ....




The book actually covers designs in chairs from 1800 but the journalist has obviously just chosen 20th century examples.


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## Phil Pascoe

Mick - no, it's not just you.
Jacob -yes, if it were designed by Fred Bloggs down the road, it would be historically unimportant. It only has value because of who designed it, not because it's neccessarily any good.


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## Modernist

If the illustations shown are typical I think it is wrongly titled. Chairs are the holy grail of furniture design and there are numerous stunning examples out there. Most of them IMHO hail from Denmark.


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## Dangermouse

If the "right" person farted, some people would be expressing their admiration for such an amazing piece of nebulous art and design


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## RogerBoyle

Dangermouse":3imdflad said:


> If the "right" person farted, some people would be expressing their admiration for such an amazing piece of nebulous art and design



unfortunately that is so true LOL


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## Mike Wingate

This must be a new edition with a new front cover of the old 1000 chair book.


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## Jacob

phil.p":2o28n0h1 said:


> Mick - no, it's not just you.
> Jacob -yes, if it were designed by Fred Bloggs down the road, it would be historically unimportant. It only has value because of who designed it, not because it's neccessarily any good.


Yes you've got it. In a similar way F Bacon's signature might have more value than Fred Bloggs', to those who value these things, even if F Bloggs' handwriting was utterly exquisite and perfect.


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## Jacob

RogerBoyle":1uzh8d08 said:


> Dangermouse":1uzh8d08 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the "right" person farted, some people would be expressing their admiration for such an amazing piece of nebulous art and design
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unfortunately that is so true LOL
Click to expand...

Well a fart 'collector' might value it, but wouldn't necessarily rate it highly as a fart in it's own right!


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## Phil Pascoe

It always amuses me to read headlines such as - "The Blue Cube" bought last year by the Upitsownass Gallery for£50,000,000, and believed to be a Picasso, has been proved to have been painted by his next door neighbour's child's gibbon. It's value is now estimated to be in the region of £1.49p.
Oh, how I feel sorry for them.


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## Jacob

phil.p":1pjc5aht said:


> It always amuses me to read headlines such as - "The Blue Cube" bought last year by the Upitsownass Gallery for£50,000,000, and believed to be a Picasso, has been proved to have been painted by his next door neighbour's child's gibbon. It's value is now estimated to be in the region of £1.49p.
> Oh, how I feel sorry for them.


All 'collectors', including toolies, can fall into the same trap.
It's a good thing really, as it re-distributes wealth downwards. Damien Hirsts fall in value and the owners (people with far too much money and no sense), become subsantially poorer.


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## Steve Maskery

I think that the problem lies in the word "best". Many of the "best" chairs were good principally for the designer's ability to use new materials or techniques. That in itself has a value, even if the chair itself is not that comfortable or to any particular person's taste. Of course, that doesn't mean that the chair itself is one that I would like to have in my house. I, for example, have the best dining chairs in the world. By "best", I mean that they are very comfortable, can be sat in all evening without becoming uncomfortable. They are unique, in that there is not another chair the same anywhere in the world. And they are pleasing to the eye. To my eye, anyway. Other people may assess them as ghastly. And do you know what?

I didn't design them.

Well not from scratch, anyway. I carried a picture in my wallet, torn from an in-flight magazine in 1987. It was extolling virtues of the Ercol furniture company, and depicted one of its original chairs (most Ercol stuff is very derivative, repro stuff). I determined then to make a set of chairs like that. I had no concept of design right. 
But it took ten years before I was in a position to do that. In that time I learned about Charles Rennie Mackintosh and Sam Maloof. The chairs I eventually built we a hybrid of the three, with a bit of Steve Maskery thrown in. An original combination of non-original features. Even now, 15 years later, people comment (favourably!) on the chairs. Only last week an acquaintance said that when he wins the lottery he is going to commission me to furnish his house. Can't wait! 
Chairs are so much more than something to sit on, aren't they?
S


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## xy mosian

Any pictures Steve?
xy


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## Steve Maskery

Not a good one, no. And I have only two left of the set, the rest are gone.
I have this, but most of the chair is obscured!





They are a lot more comfortable than they look. Excellent upholstery and superb lumbar support.
S


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## xy mosian

Thanks Steve. Have I got it right? Do the slats bend back towards a horizontal rail a couple of inches above the back of the seat? Is the crest rail at about the height of the back of the head? Ok that last one dependes upon the height of the user somewhat. All in all they do look rather interesting.

xy


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## Steve Maskery

The sides rails of the seat extend behind the back rail of the seat about 100mm. The legs are vertical and the crest rail is at head height for most people (so yes, when you laugh you bang your head). The back splats are taken straight off Sam Maloof and the bell ends are from the original Ercol design. The height was the most I could get from my lathe at the time, but I would have made them even taller if I could. I love the CRM high backs.
The back splats are cut from the solid and curve S-wise that 100mm. It's that curve which produces the good lumbar support.
The original Ercol was a wooden seat with a pad, these have a traditional drop-in upholstered seat.
So none of it is really original, and yet they are unique
I don't have space where I am to photograph them again, but I'll see if I can take one outside and get some shots.
S
PS is "interesting" a euphemism?


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## Steve Maskery

OK, Here are some photos:
Front and side elevations





The all-important view from the back.





This shows how supportive the chair is





How the backsplats fit the back seat rail





Bell detail





Plan view of seat. If I made these again, I would fit a seat that comes down over the front rail.





These may not be to anyone's personal taste, but that is not the point really is it? They are comfy and I like them and I very much enjoyed the process of creating them.
Steve


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## xy mosian

Steve, Thanks for going to all that trouble, and in the cold too. A well thought out design there. 'Interesting' was not used as a euphemism at all. I think you have a design there which deserves closer inspection. It is said to be comfortable and I have no reason to doubt that. Visually there is lots to see, from the bell ends to the high crest. I cannot remember where, of course, but I have read that the CRM chairs are not particularly easy to sit on. You seem to have come up with a chair which shows the CRM influences, and added comfort. I wonder what the effect would be if the crest rail were curved slightly in the manner of some Japanese work? Still that would involve bending which is a whole different game.
In the spring I am due to visit my brother, in france, he has asked if I can make one or two chairs for use outside, under a covered space. His facilities are sparse, we have access to a wood, but limited tools. My preparations have seen me drawn to lath back windsor chairs similar to these : http://www.windsorchair.co.uk/windsorchair5.htm. I think in ten days or so I might just about manage one or two. The main area of concern, for me, is the back leg, had I looked at a 'stick' chair with a woven seat then I would need to set up some form of bending arrangement. I don't think I will have the time for that.
Thanks again, xy


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## Steve Maskery

You are welcome. I quite enjoyed doing it, I've not had my camera out for months. Probably got a few funny looks from passing drivers, though! 
Thank you for your kind words. It was indeed my intention to make a comfortable chair from all the influences I had found and been covetous of. When you see a genuine Mack in the flesh you wonder how anyone managed to sit on it for any length of time. I've heard it said that the ones for the staff in Miss Cranston's Tea Rooms were deliberately uncomfortable so that the staff would not spend time sitting down, although, of course, I have no idea if that is true.
I'd still like to make a Maloof rocker one day. Does anyone have his book that they would be prepared to part with?
I really liked the original Ercol diner. Until, that was, I saw one in the flesh. It was far too small for my liking. It had a much lower back and was generally small of seat. And I didn't like the pad idea at all. So what you see is a hybrid of them all.
I've already started to design my next dining chair. When I get my own place again I shall make a new set and give these two to my brother who has the rest of the suite.
As to your Windsors - they should be doable with limited and basic tooling. After all, that's how they were produced originally. I've never made one myself, so I don't know how feasible is your time schedule. But I do hope you remember your camera, otherwise, of course, you never made them at all! 
Good luck with them
Steve
Edit - BTW, it was writing up the story of how I came up with the design for this chair that started my woodworking writing career. I think I entitled it "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"


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## bugbear

Steve Maskery":1bt0inrh said:


> Edit - BTW, it was writing up the story of how I came up with the design for this chair that started my woodworking writing career. I think I entitled it "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"



Love the photos in the snow. I think you've amply demonstrated the point - almost all design takes existing ideas and either alters them a little, or uses them in a new combination.

Even "trivial" changes, like altering the length of an existing chest table design to better fit a room needs consideration of (at least) the new proportions.

We're all designers.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman

I think those chairs look great, Steve - and so comfortable. Cracking design.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Jacob

Steve Maskery":zsrz7eob said:


> ....... "Design Inspiration or Plagiarism?"


TBH I don't think people copy enough. It's the basis of craft education and should be compulsory! That's how it used to be - copy, copy, until you know what you are doing and are on top of it. 
I don't hold with the very modern imperative towards originality, creativity etc. The results are often not good and you wonder why the maker didn't take the trouble to look at work by more competent people. Or were they just blind? 
Carefully 'deriving' rather then direct copying is also fraught - think of all those tedious Krenov 'derived' designs which could have been so much better if they had just gone for it and copied.
So IMHO don't worry about it Steve, as long as you are not 'passing off' but just admitting to your sources.


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## Modernist

Very interesting Steve, I'd missed the continuation of this thread. I well remember the Ercol catalogue with the "bell end" range, it appealed to me at the time but I preferred the Krenov original. Re the slats I wonder if Maloof copied Wegner (peacock chair) or visa versa? Being an organicist myself the CRM elements of straight legs, horizontal seat` and top rail make me question how it can be so comfortable, which it clearly is, without a sloping seat. The answer may lie in the 100mm setback of the base of the back, I don't know.

A very interesting delve into developed derivation  

PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).


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## Steve Maskery

Hey Brian, long time no see!


Modernist":kfs8lmb4 said:


> Very interesting Steve, I'd missed the continuation of this thread. I well remember the Ercol catalogue with the "bell end" range, it appealed to me at the time but I preferred the Krenov original. Re the slats I wonder if Maloof copied Hegner (peacock chair) or visa versa?


I've just googled the peacock chair. I hadn't seen that before. One could be derived from the other, or they could both be derived from a third. I wonder what the cross-section of that backsplat is? Mine is like a capital letter D, flat against the sitter and round on the back.



Modernist":kfs8lmb4 said:


> Being an organicist myself the CRM elements of straight legs, horizontal seat` and top rail make me question how it can be so comfortable, which it clearly is, without a sloping seat. The answer may lie in the 100mm setback of the base of the back, I don't know.



Actually the seat does slope a bit. Not very much, only about 2 deg, IIRC, and the padding of the seat is so great that the dome of the foam produces a supporting curve for the back of the thighs.



Modernist":kfs8lmb4 said:


> A very interesting delve into developed derivation


Ooh, I must remember that phrase! 



Modernist":kfs8lmb4 said:


> PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).


Yes please. I come out your way fairly regularly, walking on Sundays. This Sunday I'm at Ashford in the Water, not a million miles away. Perhaps I could call in one time?

Steve


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## Modernist

Steve Maskery":3iip5k5p said:


> Modernist":3iip5k5p said:
> 
> 
> 
> A very interesting delve into developed derivation
> 
> 
> 
> Ooh, I must remember that phrase!
> Steve
Click to expand...


It goes well with "Dome of foam" 




Modernist":3iip5k5p said:


> PS I do have the autobiography Maloof book which you are welcome to borrow. I am with you on wanting to do a Maloof style chair, which shows the power of design, as I hate rasping and sanding, (well finishing in general actually).


Yes please. I come out your way fairly regularly, walking on Sundays. This Sunday I'm at Ashford in the Water, not a million miles away. Perhaps I could call in one time?

Steve[/quote]

I am picking some friends up from Manchester airport early Sunday morning (very early actually) but should be back at base by early afternoon. You are very welcome to call in on your way back. I'll pm you details.


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## wem

No Wassily or Barcelona chair, nothing by Wenger! Very poor!


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## Jacob

wem":ttcuvz9g said:


> No Wassily or Barcelona chair, nothing by Wenger! Very poor!


The title of the book reviewed in the Telegraph in the OPs first post isn't "The Best Chairs Ever Designed" but is merely "1000 Chairs".
I guess the Telegraph wouldn't have space to illustrate all 1000 but in fact Wegner, The Wassily and Barcelona chairs, Macintosh etc are all in the book. It's a very good book! Essential reading. 
The similarly titled "500 Chairs" is in comparison really boring and much less than half as good - mostly "post modern" knick-knackery (yawn).


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## Duncumb.fc

mrpercysnodgrass":1d3ydvo7 said:


> I'm surprised they did not include any Charles Rennie Mackintosh chairs.



Hear, hear!


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## Jacob

He is in the book.


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## Duncumb.fc

Jacob":3o47875l said:


> He is in the book.



Thanks Jacob, I read your post...

It was more a case of blind hooliganism at the mention of Charles Rennie Mackintosh! :mrgreen: 

Fraser


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