# Excalibur Scrollsaws



## Alexam

I wanted to buy an Excalibur scrollsaw from the Nuneaton Axminster store recently and had talked with Axminster a few weeks earlier about going in to discuss the Excalibur saws and deciding which one to buy. Rob explained that he had his EX16 at the shop and said kindly that he could show me blade changes and discuss the details of the scrollsaws.

I advertised my older scrollsaw and sold it quickly, but the next day, when I called Axminster to arrange a visit and to check if Rob would be available, I was told that all Excaliburs had been withdrawn so that they could be re-badged with Axminster colours and launched later this month as *Axminster Excalibur Trade*. 

Some minor improvements were mentioned, such as different NVR switch and holds down, but other than that, the same machine and at a slightly resduced price.

I am dissapointed that there is a delay, particularly having sold my own machine, but although I will not be able to do anything scrollsaw wise for a few weeks, it sounds like it will be worth the wait and they did say sorry that it would not be in time for my birthday on the 13th, but possibly the third week in February.

With some improvements to the Excaliburs when they were already front runners, they should be really great and I will be there in line when it is launched. 

Watch out for announcements guys, if you are looking to get a new scroollsaw.


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## beganasatree

LOOK at your emails.

Peter.


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## Dominik Pierog

Hi Alexam

You would remember one thing about excalibur and you will talk and think about it...... motor cam.






I have little collection now...


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## Alexam

Thanks for the tip. How many have you had broken and how old is the scrollsaw now? Reaired under warranty or at what cost? 
Malcolm


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## Dominik Pierog

With eyes closed I can dismantle the machine...

First I got free. Another bought a few to spare. One day I broke 2. One by one, immediately after changing to a new one.
It is too little material in this part. I sent back for repair. Saw probably produced from 2009 to 2010.
Now I do not work much. When I worked on it a lot, one part of the year was bursting.

Work on this great. But the repair ...

The mechanism of lifting the arm EX-30 does not work. New did not work, and after repair also not workt. The arm is too heavy.

Now I have fancy plywood
http://youtu.be/91_wnINUpv0?t=55s


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## Alexam

Nice video but needs an English translation. Can it be Dubbed and listed again, or has it already been done with |English please.


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## Claymore

...........


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## AES

Very interesting video and comments by Dominik (pity I couldn't understand the language of the video).

Based on my own limited experience with the EX 21 (May/June 2015 to date) there are a number of differences between his machine and mine. In summary:

1. The colour;
2. The motor LOOKS smaller (in diameter) than mine;
3. A number of minor, detail differences on the top arm, such as position and type of ON/OFF switch, speed control, tension knob (at the back), etc.

In short his machine just isn't the same as mine. What date was yours made Dominik, do you know? How about comparing serial numbers? Mine was made in 2014 and has S/No. 22249914.

I'd also comment that although (from Dominik's pictures) I can guess where that cam drive casting is located on the machine, so far I've never seen it/had a need to even look at it - it looks like you'd need to remove the motor to get to it - and according to the Manual with my machine, this area (and just about everything else) is lubricated for life..

Further, if you look carefully at the component removed from Dominik's machine, although it's hard to tell from a pic, the item looks like a pressure die cast item. That means PROBABLY (but not necessarily) it's somewhat weaker than if it had been machined from solid or machined from a "free-moulded" casting. Also, if you look carefully at the item removed from Dominik's machine, the machining on the ID definitely looks offset (to the L in his picture) from the central boss of the casting, with both the flange thickness and the major wall thickness noticeably thinner on the LH side than on the RH side. In other words, a weak spot, and it is near that weak spot that the item in Dominik's pic has cracked.

If all of this sounds "defensive" of the EX 21 then I apologise, that is not my intention. Similarly this is not intended as a critique of your post Dominik - I'm sure you're speaking as you find, and indeed your pix show that to be true.

However I do seem to recall hearing somewhere that there have been some problems with Excalibur saws in the past; I do now understand that General International now own this brand and are responsible for it's manufacture, rather than the original Canadian inventor (I wonder if that change took place before or after Dominik's machine was made?), and there is at least one other member here who has an Excalibur machine of (if memory serves me correctly) about 2 to 3 years old who has not had any problems with it - just like me.

So PERHAPS that change of owner/manufacturer has something to do with all this? 

Nevertheless, in the light of Dominik's post, I think it would be very wise if you Alexam (or any one else thinking of buying) would discuss these points with the vendor and if necessary, you yourself examine the hardware you are about to buy in detail.

These things are after all a large financial outlay for a hobbyist and it obviously makes sense to be as sure as is possible before parting with the hard-earned.

I hope that helps.

AES


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## jasdon79

Hi malcolm I have ordered a ex last week . After talking to axminster it sounds like thay have changed the faults with the old white machine. I look forward to finding out and using the new machine.


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## Alexam

jasdon79":h85wlunc said:


> Hi malcolm I have ordered a ex last week . After talking to axminster it sounds like thay have changed the faults with the old white machine. I look forward to finding out and using the new machine.


 
Hi Jasdon,

Who did you order from Jason and which branch? The Nuneaton branch tried to get one for me just before they were withdrawn to be re-badged and I have been told that the only changes have been to the hold down foot and the NVR switch, but nothing more than that. I was also told that the prices were to be a little lower.

What price for which machine have you ordered and when have they quoted delivery?

Malcolm


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## ardenwoodcraft

I believe the problem with the broken drive cranks on the Excalibur scroll saws was twofold. They were confined mainly to the EX30 models and a few EX21's. With the EX30's it was the length of the link arms that put an excessive amount of strain on the crank arm when running at high speeds, ie:- cutting thicker stock. Axminster had quite a few EX30's returned and I remember seeing them offered for sale on *bay as refurbished items. 
But...... they also suffered from a bad batch of crank arms supplied to the manufacturer which, I think were re-designed to stop the breakages happening. As I said, a few EX21's also suffered from this problem but Axminster, to their credit, were quick to jump on this problem and I believe most were rectified under warranty. To the best of my knowledge I don't think any EX16's were affected in this manner.
I may be the member AES is referring to having owned my EX21 for nearly 3 years now with no problems to speak of. But I do not use it on a full time 8 hour day basis, it is for me, purely a hobby and my full time job pays the bills. However, I have no doubt that if I were to use it as a full time income earner it would be up to the job and I expect to still be using it for another 10 years at least with nothing other than normal wear and tear to it. 
All Excalibur scroll saws are currently made in Taiwan and I would hope that the Axminster trade branded ones are also. If Axminster were to get them made in China I think the quality would severely suffer and it would be a "shot themselves in the foot moment" for what is a well proven, high quality, and for me at least, reliable design.


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## AES

Yes, I confirm (having checked back) that it was indeed you (ardenwoodcraft) that I was thinking of when I mentioned "a member here with 2 or 3 years ownership experience of Excalibur".

I also confirm that my own machine was made in Taiwan, not in China.

Having said that however, I believe (personal opinion) that being made in China is not automatically a bad/poor quality idea. Yes, lots of made in China things are pretty low quality, but in line with another thread on UKW a few weeks back, my belief is that some (most?) Chinese manufacturers are pretty much like any other manufacturer in any other country - i.e. they make what they're contracted to make, and if a company dictates a low price and just leaves them alone to get on with it then the result can be pretty dire, with the Chinese using cheese bolts and "monkey metal" castings full of blow holes to keep their own costs down! But if a company gives an exact spec (for example, the materials to be used and machining tolerances to be worked to, especially on a highly-stressed component such as the drive arm we saw in Dominik's pix), AND if that company carries out a decent on-going QC program, then there's no reason why a Chinese-made machine should be any worse or less consistent than, say, a Taiwanese product (or a German or a British one for that matter)!

But ardenwoodcraft obviously knows the history of the Excalibur better than I do, so I would suggest that anyone buying the new Axi version should have a detailed look at the materials and general machining finishes - especially on such highly-stressed items - whether made in China or anywhere else.

I should think that as Axi is a reputable trader they would not object to a buyer displaying such caution, but in any case Axi are generally well known for good customer service and after sales support.

Like ardenwoodcraft I also do not use my machine on a professional basis, but like him I'm also pretty confident that it'll stand up to whatever tasks I throw at it for the foreseeable future.

As I said in my "Biting the bullet" post last year, I did look at the internals of my machine before buying and compared it, as far as I was able (without any dismantling), to the Hegner machine standing on the same bench. I must say that my own assessment was that the Excalibur was equal in quality of materials and in build standard to the Hegner.

Again I'm not trying to "justify" my own buying decision but simply pointing out that while Excalibur have apparently had quality problems in the past this does not seem to be the case now. If Axi are MAYBE getting these saws built elsewhere, then yes, a careful check should be made by prospective buyers, but if, as I suspect, the new Axi machine is simply a business arrangement and in fact it's the same machine as mine coming out of the same factory as mine did (and as ardenwoodcraft's did) except for the colour and the badge, then personally I can't see any problems are likely to arise.

I hope that helps.

AES


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## Alexam

Excellent points by you all on this, but apart from switching a machine on and seeing it run at various speeds and that all 'seems' well, that's about all that can be done here. 

Andy had anadvantage that most do not in the UK, to sit down with two machines and try them out in detail with diffent woods and blades. Even though Axminster are a good reliable outlet, they would/could not allow that to be done otherwise they would have several machines in shop that had been used.

The most surprising to me was jasdon79, having placed an order for Excalibur, when I was under the impression that all the Excalibur machines had been withdrawn until the new launch later in February of the *Axminster Excalibur Trade* at a slightly reduced price.

Other information I have received from elsewhere, regarding the re-badging in colour and name is not known by those who should know, but this will be clarified in the next few weeks. I just hope that Axminster will be living up to their reputation for good service and honesty.

I just want to get my hands on a new Excalibur scrollsaw to get started on Intarsia, as I don't have a machine at present and am awaiting to hear from Jasdon with more information about his order.

Thank you all very much for your interest and input


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## jasdon79

pm sent Malcolm


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## Alexam

Thanks Jason, that added to the information I had received and another couple of weeks or so the new Axminster Excalibur Trade machines should be available. It will be interesting to see them.


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## Alexam

UPDATE - Info from Axminster head office, Procurement Manager, (very nice guy). 

Launch of the new scrollsaw's will be 17th February. Same machines as the previous Excalibur scrollsaws, same factory in Taiwan with alteration of the NVR switch and hold down foot. Axminster Ex16 Trade £499 (Stock #101771) The Axminster Ex21 Trade £549 (Stock# 101772) (didn't get the EX30 price (Stock# 101773). Axminster colours, Grey/Red.

Axminster have looked closely at all previous problems with the Excaibur scroll saws to ensure they have been dealt with and they are exited at this new model will be an improvement, but it will not have the name 'Excalibur' on it as the name is owned by G.I. who will not permit use of the name and changes. 

Guarantee will be 3 years and as it has the 'Trade' category, it can be used commercially as well as for hobby and remain covered. Some other manufacturers will not honour a long guarantee if the maching has been used commercially and say that in thgeir literature, (which we may all miss).

Hope this helps those who are interested.


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## AES

Thanks for the update Alexam. I should think that this info should allay any doubts you or anyone else may have about buying this "new" machine - so "buy away" with confidence I'd say!

One point though - I noticed that you (and a couple of other people previously) have mentioned a NVR switch on both this new and on the "old" Excalibur saws. Perhaps that's a UK-only thing, because mine does not have one at all.

I mention this only because when I was trying to source a foot switch for my machine, Axi told me that their foot switch was only suitable for machines with an NVR. That's why, last year, I posted details of the (pretty expensive) foot switch I ended up buying via the Excalibur distributor here in Switzerland.

Just pointing this out because if you do want a foot switch you'd better check the exact situation with Axi at the time of buying your new saw.

Cheers
AES


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## Alexam

Good point on the footswitch Andy, I will check it out.

All the best


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## Aggrajag

I bought my EX16 in December, UK, direct from Axminster, and I'm sure mine isn't NVR? If the machine is running and I turn it off and back on at the wall it starts running again. I tested it because I could buy a cheap footswitch if I wanted.


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## Alexam

Only passing on the information I have been given, but I am talking about the NEW Ex models that are due out on the 17th Feb. Your model is no longer available as I tried to buy one and have to wait for the new Axminster EX16 Trade machine.

How are you getting on with yours?
Malcolm


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## Aggrajag

It's fabulous; so quiet I no longer use ear defenders, so easy to set/change the blades, so little vibration (even on a Workmate bench), I love it and it's a workhorse to be sure, I feel it could be left switched on 24/7 and never get hot or fail.


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## Alexam

Thanks for the feedback on that. What do you make mainly with it and have you any photos you could put up?. Always interested to see what members do.

Malcolm


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## Aggrajag

I don't get a lot of time to make stuff but I've posted a few things on here in the past couple of months; the cat puzzle, an Escher puzzle and two Schwibbogens.

new-scroller-t93568.html
m-c-escher-t94530.html
latest-schwibbogen-t94993.html

I do like the forum, I lurk all the time, seeing what others do


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## Alexam

Sorry, I had seen the items you had posted and they were very good. I just want to get one of the new Ex16's and get cracking, as I've not done very much scrolling.

Keep up the good work and enjoy yourself.

Malcolm


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## Aggrajag

Cheers Malc, hurry up and get yours on here


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## woodaxed

axminster are telling pork pies there is a 16 excalibur in stock at high wycombe store its the same one that was there 3 weeks ago at £489
its now at £499.96


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## Alexam

They have a demo model only. All others have been sold and it's £499 if anyone wants it. I'm waiting a few more days now for the upgraded model


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## Alexam

Hi Guys,

just had an update from Procurement at Axminster, which is as follows,

_Just to let you know that our delivery has been put back by 1 week due to bad weather affecting the ship's ability to dock in Southampton. It's gone to Antwerp instead, so our shipping agent has to ship our stock back to the UK.
Just one of those circumstances that we have to put up with occasionally._

So, it looks more like around the 24th or after according to overland transportation for those who are interested.


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## Claymore

..........


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## AES

Shame Malcolm, but you'll "just" have to be patient I guess.

What bad weather Brian? Well here (a long way from Galloway I know) although it's been warmer than usual (lots of spring flowers blooming) we've also had a lot of very high winds recently - as also shown on the Met videos all across the Bay of Biscay and up into the English Channel.

Meantime, many happy returns - your birthday must be about now Malcolm? But when you do get your new saw don't forget we'll expect a full report with loads of pix.

AES


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## Alexam

It's OK guys, I have managed to sell off several bits of photographic gear that exceed the intended spend of arounf a hundred or so! If I pop off, do let her know not to sell anything below the price I said I paid!

Lovely sunshine here also, but also freezing.


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## beganasatree

Chin up Malcolm it will come.

Peter.


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## tomasgursky

Alexam":8u00g8jh said:


> UPDATE - Info from Axminster head office, Procurement Manager, (very nice guy).
> 
> Launch of the new scrollsaw's will be 17th February. Same machines as the previous Excalibur scrollsaws, same factory in Taiwan with alteration of the NVR switch and hold down foot. Axminster Ex16 Trade £499 (Stock #101771) The Axminster Ex21 Trade £549 (Stock# 101772) (didn't get the EX30 price (Stock# 101773). Axminster colours, Grey/Red.
> 
> Axminster have looked closely at all previous problems with the Excaibur scroll saws to ensure they have been dealt with and they are exited at this new model will be an improvement, but it will not have the name 'Excalibur' on it as the name is owned by G.I. who will not permit use of the name and changes.
> 
> Guarantee will be 3 years and as it has the 'Trade' category, it can be used commercially as well as for hobby and remain covered. Some other manufacturers will not honour a long guarantee if the maching has been used commercially and say that in thgeir literature, (which we may all miss).
> 
> Hope this helps those who are interested.




The lastest update I've just received from Axminister that new scroll saws should be announced 8th March. The e-mail will be sent out to all that signed up for their E-mail club. 

From the Axminister chat:

"Carly: No there is no announcement today, the new scroll saw range will be sent on an email on 8th March. We should have them all in stock by then, at present we are still awaiting delivery."


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## jasdon79

Oh dam I have to wait till next week for my new saw. Thanks for the update malcolm. P.s. Axminster do stock the foot switch and have them in stock . £90.00


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## Alexam

Thanks Jason, particularly about the footswitch, A bit pricey, but will check it out when I look at the new Ex16


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## Alexam

Just been advised by Axminster that the new machines Ex16 and Ex21 should be in by end of this week. The Ex30 will not be until April.


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## AES

Not much longer to wait then Malcolm.

But don't forget the Forum (unwritten) rule - no pix n it never happened.

 

AES


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## tomasgursky

New scroll saws are on Axminster web page now. Still out of stock but at least we can see them and read description.


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## Alexam

Thanks for that info. I looked at the page and saw the new machines, but having got in touch with the head office today, they tell me they are in and being checked for delivery to the stores. Part of the message to me at 11.23am was as follows,

[ They arrived yesterday afternoon. At the moment we are batch inspecting as we have to with the first consignment of a new product. If all OK we will release the stock for sale today. We are going to photograph them tomorrow afternoon for the web site. Hopefully, most, if not all the stores will get stock by end of next week. We deliver to the stores with our own dedicated 40ft trailer unit, not by carrier.

The machines have an NVR switch fitted upstream of the front mounted rocker style on/off switch, so at the moment they will not work with a simple open/closed terminal foot switch. ]

That seems to rule out the normal foot switch until something else can be sorted out


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## tomasgursky

Alexam":j3b7o9bk said:


> Thanks for that info. I looked at the page and saw the new machines, but having got in touch with the head office today, they tell me they are in and being checked for delivery to the stores. Part of the message to me at 11.23am was as follows,
> 
> [ They arrived yesterday afternoon. At the moment we are batch inspecting as we have to with the first consignment of a new product. If all OK we will release the stock for sale today. We are going to photograph them tomorrow afternoon for the web site. Hopefully, most, if not all the stores will get stock by end of next week. We deliver to the stores with our own dedicated 40ft trailer unit, not by carrier.
> 
> The machines have an NVR switch fitted upstream of the front mounted rocker style on/off switch, so at the moment they will not work with a simple open/closed terminal foot switch. ]
> 
> That seems to rule out the normal foot switch until something else can be sorted out




They are in stock now  =D>

It may sound silly but can the NVR switch be bypassed? I think the "Health and safety" is getting crazy in this country now. It makes sense to have NVR on some of the machines but why the hell on the scroll saw?


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## Alexam

I think that the switch could be by-passed, but if you do that and have a problem, it may 'blow' your guarantee. I have asked again about foot switches and await replies. However, just to let everyone know what these ne machines look like, here are the actual photos of the new machines.






























Looks good and the NVR switch seems to be nicely situated.

Malcolm


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## tomasgursky

Alexam":j8d9fgvy said:


> I think that the switch could be by-passed, but if you do that and have a problem, it may 'blow' your guarantee. I have asked again about foot switches and await replies. However, just to let everyopne know what these ne machines look like, here are the actual photos of the new machines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good and the NVR switch seems to be nicely situated.
> 
> Malcolm




Thanks for that Malcolm. I will buy one in a few weeks (I hope). Just need to sell my fisht tank first as there is no time for both hobbies 
It looks good and the price is good too.


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## jasdon79

Just had an email mine is on its way and will be here tomorrow


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## tomasgursky

jasdon79":31b5jd9m said:


> Just had an email mine is on its way and will be here tomorrow



Lucky you. I'm so jealous 

Let us know your first impression then


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## AES

Good info there Malcolm, thanks. From what I can see, apart from the colour it looks exactly the same as mine. I'm sure it'll be a good'un.

Re NVR, I can't understand the need for one either, and as I said in an earlier post, mine hasn't got one at all, just the little (rubber booted) toggle switch on top of the arm at the front, just below the speed control knob. And mine is fully EU/CE approved (would have to be for the German market, where I bought it)! Maybe it's a UK-only thing? 

Re a foot switch, I'm really surprised about this too. From an earlier post I made on the subject, I got caught in this "trap" and ended up buying the (rather expensive) device through the official Excalibur (General International) dealer here in Switzerland.

I posted all the details of that foot switch back last year, including the original manufacturer details. It was expensive (I seem to recall about 70 Euros - I can look it up on the post if you like) but just like you I was scared about voiding the Warranty so went with the "official" unit. I was told (by the Swiss dealer) that the expensive foot switch they sold was necessary because "of all the complicated electronics inside" and also "because it doesn't have a NVR switch"! BUT, OTOH, when I contacted Axi about their foot switch they told me that their foot switch wouldn't be suitable for my machine because my machine did NOT have an NVR!!!

About the only thing I can see that's in any way "different" about my machine to any other "normal" machine is that the motor is 60 Volts DC (so I suppose it's got some electronic 230 Volt AC to DC rectification inside it) - I wonder what type of motor the Axi machine has?

But note BTW that there is NO speed control within the foot switch I now have, like there is in, say, my wife's sewing machine, so I really can't understand all the hassle. Also, BTW, when I was researching all this last year I found posts in various scroll sawing Forums from Australian Excalibur users having exactly the same problems. I just don't understand it.

But as said, having paid all that money for the saw I didn't want to have a potential Warranty problem, so in the end I just gave up and bought the "official" switch, just to be sure.

I think the real answer is for GI to supply all their machines with a foot switch, ideally as standard, but even as an extra cost option would be OK. They do this actually, but only for machines for the US & Canadian market, which of course is 110 Volts mains supply. When I contacted them in Canada they had no interest at all in providing any details of a foot switch suitable for European mains supply - on the phone their Export Sales Manager asked me (rather sarcastically I thought) if I wanted him to do an internet search for me. His excuse was that the foot switch they supply for the N American market is not CE approved.

So I for one will be interested to hear what Axi say to you about a foot switch for your new machine. 

Keep us posted please.

Krgds
AES


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## Aggrajag

AES":22coiee1 said:


> Re NVR, I can't understand the need for one either, and as I said in an earlier post, mine hasn't got one at all, just the little (rubber booted) toggle switch on top of the arm at the front, just below the speed control knob. And mine is fully EU/CE approved (would have to be for the German market, where I bought it)! Maybe it's a UK-only thing?



i bought my EX16 direct from Axminster UK last month, for UK use, and it doesn't have the NVR switch and I've tested switching it off/on at the mains and the blade starts up again so I know a "cheap" footswitch would work for me. Anyway, I was just saying this as it can't be a UK thing. The mind boggles. Perhaps they're trying to get into the school market which I read somewhere was why Hegner have them??


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## Alexam

Axminster are already in the school market, but as long as machines do have an NVR switch, this gives them another opportunity with these machines to offer something else. 

The new EX scrollsaws are totally owned by Axminster rather than them acting as an agent for Excalibur, but since they have now sorted out the previous problems that the Excalibur had, they are rather excited at the possibilities of this new Ex range.

I personally think it will out run the Hegner clone and probably give Hegner a run for their money.

I'm looking forward to getting one soon


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## jasdon79

Great news my new ex21 has just arrived. Right iam off down the workshop


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## AES

Great jasdon 79. Don't forget "pictures"!!!!

AES


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## Dominik Pierog

Remove blade guards.
That make only noise.
download/file.php?id=44956&mode=view
download/file.php?id=44957&mode=view


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## Alexam

I think that this is more aplicable to experianced scrollers, but anyone new to scrolling should keep them in place until they feeel confident in handling ther work without the guard.


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## Claymore

.........


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## AES

A couple of points if it helps:

Dominik you're obviously an experienced scroller (one can see that from the work you've posted) but I agree with Alexam (Malcolm) that at least to start with, a new scroller should not remove the upper blade guard/hold down. I can't see how it would add any noise, and when I've been "teaching" my wife's girlfriend to scroll saw (talk about the blind leading the blind!) I've found that when making sharp and 90 degree turns she tends to relax her downward pressure on the work piece a little. If the work piece is thick/the blade is coarse, this tends to allow the work piece to jump up off the table - no harm done, but the resulting big bang is a shock to a nervous beginner which is not helpful. It's only a question of adjusting the guard downwards on to the job so that it holds it down against the table without increasing drag. In fact I still use the hold down myself sometimes when cutting thick hard wood.

I was surprised to see the lower blade guard. I missed that in the pix originally posted and am now wondering why it's there. I can't see any reason at all why fingers should be anywhere near that area when actually cutting and agree with you Dominik, it's probably best removed. Mine doesn't actually have that guard at all and I certainly don't miss it. Perhaps it's got something to do with Axi wanting to get into the schools market? But again I can't see what noise leaving it there would add.

Re DE Claymore, it's a bit hard to see in the pix posted, but to me it looks just like my own saw, which works very well indeed when coupled to my shop vac (which sucks like a good 'un but makes much more noise than the saw itself)! The centre hole in the table is big enough to allow for all blade sizes and types of blade movement, including head tilt, and on mine at least, the ring of outer holes align directly with a thin plastic "plate", and via that through a slot under the table, couples directly to that big black plastic boss at the front RH side of the table. About the only thing the DE misses is the small pile of dust that slowly builds up under the table, just around that big table tilt adjusting knob. But this is a small amount of dust and only requires a quick suck with the vac after a lot of cutting. About the only "problem" I have with my DE port is that it's a bit big, but this is easily overcome by making an adaptor. As I say, all that's on my machine, but from the pix posted, it looks exactly the same on the new Axi machine.

I take your point about spares being hard to get Claymore (Brian) but I would guess that with the sort of positive reputation that Axi has, they'll make sure they have the necessary on the shelf. In the Manual that came with my machine there is a small section listing the spares you're likely to need (basically the blade tensioning lever plus blade clamps) and they even recommend that if you use the saw a lot you buy a spare set of those for a stand by. I haven't done that myself yet but don't anticipate any problems when I do order them from the seller.

Beyond those, I really do have the feeling that my machine anyway is built to last, and shouldn't need any other spares for yonks. From the pix posted so far, the Axi version looks just as good.

HTH

AES


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## Claymore

.........


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## AES

@Claymore:
Yes, I think you're right about no more Axi printed paper catalogues, and I agree with you 110% about their "useless, new" website.

That latter was discussed on this Forum at some length a time back, but at least one member here who is obviously some sort of IT professional spent a long time saying that the "new" Axi website is not useless, we (the users) just aren't using it properly - i.e. as ever, the vast majority of the IT profession just will NOT listen to anything except "the fact" that if a user has any difficulties using a particular program or application, that's only because the user is just a dummy - that's my experience of 99% of IT people anyway!

But yes, the Axi catalogue does not apparently exist any more and you and I are not alone in agreeing that the "new" Axi web site, if not completely useless, is at least significantly worse now than before they "improved" it.

Despite all that personally I do like Axi (but I'm even further away from one of their shops than you are Claymore!) and hope that (IMHO) poor decision will not adversely affect their business.

AES


----------



## Valld

If someone is interested, just got a reply from Axi for my enquiry regarding the new Axi EX-16 scroll saw spare parts. Prices also look quite reasonable, I just don't understand the 'Ordering over the phone' part and why they don't list them on their website for normal ordering??:

""
Thank you for your recent enquiry [ID#152996] dated 29/02/2016.
The following parts are available in stock
C-38 thumb screw - ELT003537 - £2.73ex
Carbon brushes - ELT004871 - £8.21ex
C36ASSY lower clamp complete - 950293 - £9.88ex
C-46A upper clamp assembly - 950294 - £16ex
These will all need ordering over the phone.
Kind regards
Simon Ayers
Specialist After Sales ""


----------



## Alexam

Probably because of the chang over from Excalibur to Axminster even though the parts are the same, the numbering may be different. If you look for the same part on the Excalibur and then phone them, they should have a quick way to convert? Worth a try?
Malcolm


----------



## Aggrajag

Alexam":xhzfjk2e said:


> Probably because of the chang over from Excalibur to Axminster even though the parts are the same, the numbering may be different. If you look for the same part on the Excalibur and then phone them, they should have a quick way to convert? Worth a try?
> Malcolm



Yeah they must have a quick conversion chart (unless they've kept the same part numbers) as they still need to supply parts for Excalibur branded saws.


----------



## tomasgursky

A new Axi Ex-21 ordered. Can't wait now. So excited. =D>

Any updates re foot switch?


----------



## AES

If it's of any help to anyone I'll glad scan the remaining 2 pages of P/Nos & descriptions for my EX 21 (I've already scanned 1 page for Valld - posted above somewhere - there are 3 pages total, plus 3 pages of diagrams).

Then at least you'll have a starting point to "convert" P/Nos from the original Excali to the new Axi version.

Having posted 1 page here for Valld I have seen how small they appear on the Forum pages, so if anyone does want this I suggest you send me an E-mail with your own E-mail address in it. Then I can send you the pages in their original full size .pdf format (PMs cannot have any attach files as far as I know, and the Forum software will not allow .pdf as attach files).

AES


----------



## Alexam

Just had a call from Axminster to say the new Ex 21 and 16 have arrived and they are getting ready for display. I will be going there tomorrow, Although they will not allow any cutting on the new machine, they did have one of the guys with the Excalibur EX16 in the store, but he was asked to take it home yesterday due to lack of space. How dumn is that. The idea if people have not actually tried the saw, would be to have a 'similar model' there to cut with. 

Probably some reasonaing other than space I feel, but in my opinion not a good sales thought for anyone at manager level.

Malcolm


----------



## Claymore

.........


----------



## ChrisR

Malcolm.

Good news, don’t forget to take your flexible friend with you. :wink: 

I was looking at one of Axminster’s new stores on line yesterday, and thinking it’s a good job that there is not a store near me. If I was to visit one I would have to be hand cuffed, and my flexible friend stitched into my pocket. :roll: 

All the best.

Chris.


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## tomasgursky

My new Ex-21 is on the way to be delivered today. So I will keep you posted about first impresion...Can't wait to get home after work, lol.


----------



## Alexam

ChrisR":25ukm6so said:


> Malcolm.
> 
> Good news, don’t forget to take your flexible friend with you. :wink:
> 
> I was looking at one of Axminster’s new stores on line yesterday, and thinking it’s a good job that there is not a store near me. If I was to visit one I would have to be hand cuffed, and my flexible friend stitched into my pocket. :roll:
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Chris.




Hi Chris,

you could always ask that begger fraudster that lives in Newquay to pay for it. According to the Mail today, he has been begging on the streets all around pretending to be a homeless Vet, down on his luck from the Paras, with service abroad and asking for help. He's collecting shedloads of money from sympathetic passers by. Then goes home in his big shiny Audi to his council supplied house and picks up all sorts opf benefits. A couple of real Paras should perhaps have a word in his ear down there?
Malcolm


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## Alexam

........................Brian
ps managed to saw my thumb last night ouch! blood everywhere but serves me right trying to do one last cut with a pretty blunt blade and putting too much pressure on it then all of a sudden it cut like butter including my thumb Grrrrrrrrrrr. I usually hold the wood with my molegrips but went old school instead .

Hope its not too bad and clears up soon. Always use the grips or one of the wooden clamps 



to hold the work. Better still, stay off the hard stuff for a while.


Malcolm


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## AES

@Claymore (Brian):

Sorry to hear about your P.S. thumb!

"Gute Besserung" mate.

AES


----------



## ChrisR

Alexam":7nfsgn3s said:


> ChrisR":7nfsgn3s said:
> 
> 
> 
> Malcolm.
> 
> Good news, don’t forget to take your flexible friend with you. :wink:
> 
> I was looking at one of Axminster’s new stores on line yesterday, and thinking it’s a good job that there is not a store near me. If I was to visit one I would have to be hand cuffed, and my flexible friend stitched into my pocket. :roll:
> 
> All the best.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> you could always ask that begger fraudster that lives in Newquay to pay for it. According to the Mail today, he has been begging on the streets all around pretending to be a homeless Vet, down on his luck from the Paras, with service abroad and asking for help. He's collecting shedloads of money from sympathetic passers by. Then goes home in his big shiny Audi to his council supplied house and picks up all sorts opf benefits. A couple of real Paras should perhaps have a word in his ear down there?
> Malcolm
Click to expand...


Yes, read about that man in the local newspaper. :evil: 

There was a (TV) documentary some time ago about beggars in London, at the end of the day walking to the next street, and driving home in top end cars. I guess in London or any large town it is possible to stay anonymous, but a bit silly trying it on in a small town like Newquay, especially in the winter when the population is low.

Maybe I could go down the town centre on my mobility scooter, and sit there with a sign (Wife plus woodworking equipment to support). :lol: 

Take care.

Chris.

PS hope the thumb heals enough for you to go and see the new saw. :wink:


----------



## Alexam

Not my thumb, it was Brian's.(Claymore's)


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## ChrisR

Sorry, Malcolm.  

Brian hope your thumb soon heals up. :roll: 

Chris.


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## tomasgursky

Hello guys, 

This review presents only my personal view and you may not agree nor share that view with me. I'm not a professional, but wouldn't consider myself as a beginner. Maybe advanced beginner, lol.

My first scroll saw was Rexon SS16SA and EX-21 is a huge upgrade for me in a nice way. I've done lot of scroll sawing on Rexon and felt that I should upgrade to something more reliable and accurate. I was thinking to buy Excalibur but money was tight and in a mean time I found this forum and topic where Malcolm was saying about new Axminster Trade scroll saws. Thanks Malcolm. So even if you may think it's not fair to compare those two I think it may help to some that wish and would like to upgrade too.

So my new Axminster EX-21 arrived yesterday. It was a huge and heavy box, but machine was well packed to avoid any damages in transit. It came with set of blades (don't know what brand as they are in a plastic bag only) and Axminster kindly put a mixed pack of Pegas blades free of charge too. There is also a spare tension lever assembly.

Scroll saw is fully build and ready to go out of box. No further assembly (except bolting it to the workbench, that I highly recommend or to a stand, that is not available yet). 

The manual is not spot on and sometimes referring to features that either don't exist on this scrall saw or they are already assembled.

I got the saw into my workshop and plugged it in. You need to bolt this thing to a bench! It is also metnioned in manual that you should. It's ok with slow to mid speed, but when you speed it up, it vibrates a lot. I bolted it down and vibration has reduced a lot.

Saw is well made and runs smooth and quiet.

There are lot of safety features that are rather obstructive than helpful for me. The hold down clamp will get in the way when you try to cut small pieces and need to keep your fingers close. I've never used it before and I was ok so probably it will be taken off. I can only blame myself for any possible injuries as being incompetent or not fully focused and concentrated. I know todays nations would suit shoe maker if they trip over the shoe lace that they didn't tight up properly but this is not my case.

The blade guard on the bottom of my saw is slightly lose and as the saw runs it keeps moving to one side and touch the blade. To tighten it up properly and get the acces to screws I will havet to remove whole table.

There is also a plastic cover underneath the table holes connected to a dust port with tiny hole in the middle for a blade to get throug. When you do internal cuts and lift the arm with the blade to get through the piece of wood, you often need to lift that wood too and try to put the blade through that plastic cover. I understand it make sense to have it there if you've got your saw connected to a dust extractor. I just don't like the idea to sit there for hours with hoover or dust extractor turned on next to you.

A foot switch would make a nice addition to this saw. The one is mentioned in manual but I think this was only coppied from the original Excalibur manual and doesn't corespond with current version of saw.

Otherwise saw peformes very well and I'm 100% satisfied with mu purchase. Even that I mentioned all that above I would score it 5/5. Would I buy this saw again? Definitely yes.


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## Valld

Congratulations Tomas! I wish you many years of happy scrolling and to never need to service your new toy. May I ask you a favor: please update us after 3-4 months, by that time I should decide what scroll saw to buy myself


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## tomasgursky

Valld":3szwedsj said:


> Congratulations Tomas! I wish you many years of happy scrolling and to never need to service your new toy. May I ask you a favor: please update us after 3-4 months, by that time I should decide what scroll saw to buy myself



Thank you Valld and I will update for sure. I'm new to the forum but have found it very usefull.


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## Alexam

Nice review Thomas I hope you have great fun with your Ex21 and look forward to your update when you have had ir working for a few weeks.

For the lesser mortals ....................., I collected my Ex16 this morning From Nuneaton and having only arrived home half an hour ago, it is presently in the car boot. A cuppa was more important. Review to follow soon.

Malcolm


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## AES

Thanks tomasgursky. A good clear review, and sounds very much like my own "original" (not Axi) EX 21. Hope you enjoy it, and as Valld says, let's have an update once you've used it a bit please.

@Alexam: What? A cup of tea BEFORE you unpacked the new saw!! I'm not sure I'd have that much self-discipline.  

Let's know how it goes please.

All the best to you both with your new toys.

AES


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## Valld

Congrats to you as well Malcolm! I'm even more interested in EX-16, so I have no patience for you to finish your tea . Please tell us how it performs, noise, vibrations, blade side to side and back to back and try to finish 1 million projects in the next 4 months and update us


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## tomasgursky

Alexam":s0d2n9aq said:


> Nice review Thomas I hope you have great fun with your Ex21 and look forward to your update when you have had ir working for a few weeks.
> 
> For the lesser mortals ....................., I collected my Ex16 this morning From Nuneaton and having only arrived home half an hour ago, it is presently in the car boot. A cuppa was more important. Review to follow soon.
> 
> Malcolm



Congratulation to you too Malcolm. Let us know your views on this new toy.


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## Alexam

Hi Guys, the tea and bickies having been consumed, old togs on and loaded with the iPad (no time for the camera at present), it's out to the car to unpack.




Before going further, let me tell you about my visit to Axminster today. I mentioned that I had received a call from Rob at Nuneaton, to say that they have received the new scrollsaws and the one reserved for me and he was getting an Ex16 ready for the showroom. Having thanked him for his call, I said I would call on Friday morning so that he could demonstrate the machine to me, explaining all the details I may need. Upon arrival and asking to speak with Ron., I was tols that it was his day off.

Can you imagine my thoughts? I explained the reason I had come and as Ron was the scrollsaw man at Nuneaton, they persuaded Peter to help as much as he could, but it was not his area really.

It's a good job that I have been looking so intently at the Excalubur machines for so long, reading all the iunformation and watching a number of video's of tuning machines etc, the way I did with the bandsaws.

Peter was extreemly helpful and between us we eventually sorted our what I needed to know, but it was semi-blind leading semi-blind and we both learned from the meeting. Thanks Peter. Please ask Ron to keep a diary.

Back to unloading .................., it was a bit heavy, but the straps helped to carry it in and I decided to unpack slowly and carefully - as you do. As tom said for the Ex21, nicely packed with blocks of well fitting polystyrene, extra cardboard surround and plywood. 

An initial word of CAUTION .... the upper arm of the machine should not be used to help lift it as damage could be caused. Lift the machine from the base under the table end and the motor end.

The machine was bolted down to plyboard with 4 bolts, which were soon undone and the new aquasition placed carefully on the latest table that I have recently fitted, so that I can be sitting down and have room for more tea and bickies 


Time to check it over.

Having looked over the machine carefully and as a result of my meeting with Peter I knew what to look for, the new 'hold down' is large and intrusive. It can be adjusted by means of a side clamp and as long as the main arm of the machine is raised, can be removed totally. However, it can be split in two, leaving a hold down that is around the blade at the rear, but not in front of it. This may be helpful for beginners to use the full clamp to start with, then remove the front section by removing the two screws seen in this next photo, or removed fully if you have confidence to work without it. There is also a safety extention below the table and in front of the blade, shown in photo 9, which can be a little awkward.







The blade positioning can be a little bit tricky until you get used to it. Both upper and lower holders have a grub screw opposite the handle/tightening knob (nice and easy to operate) that tightens onto the blade. The screw can be moved in or out to move the blade position sideways if needed.




In order to help thread the blade when undertaking pierced cuts, the Ex models allow the main arm of the machine to raise and lower with one end of the blade made free. This is a considerable advantage to the normal scrollsaw and makes for a far easier and quicker job when making numerious internal cuts.




The large knob at the rear on top of the main arm is the upper arm tensioner to adjust the blade tension slightly. Once the intiial setting has been found, this should not need altering.

The forward and back movement of the blade is carried out by lengthening or shortening the upper arm. The instruction book is very clear on how to do this but essentially it required the three bolts on the motor to be slightly loostened and while the blade is in motion slowly, turn the motor's position and watch the blade. This will get a correct vertical movement of the blade to 90 degrees and then you tighten the motor up again. _Saturday afternoon and I have just done this, turning the motor whilst the blade is at it's slowest. This has made a difference not only to get the blade verticle front to back, but also to reducing the sound. It's remarkably quiet now.
_

Dust extraction has been well thought of and in my discussions with Peter, I commented that the system here is one idea I had thought about only a few days ago, only a littlemore refined. With a suitable extractor attached to the black tube, air is drawn from within a clear plastic lower film just under the perforated holes around the blade, sucking in fine dust. 




Not having checked this out as yet, it may get clogged if slightly larger particles were sucked in and a good idea to keep an eye on this initially. Further reports on this later.

The machine is switched on initially with the NVR switch, but from then on, the small black switch, covered with a plastic film, can be used. When working, the NVR is within reach on the Ex 16 model, but it would be furter away on the Ex21 and Ex30, so one would need to stand and stretch forward to reach the NVR switch.

Overall I am very pleased with the Axinster Ex16 Trade scrollsaw, which carries a 3 year guarantee even using it commercially. I believe it will prove to be a good investment and although I have not previously done very much scrollsaw work and then on a very old machine, this is far quieter. It has far less vibration and I did stand a pound coin on the table and adjust the speed up and down without any movement.

It is more stable to have the machine bolted down in use or at very least, clamped down. I will follow this review up in a few months time but for now, I need to develop my skills on the scrollsaw that other members have honed for years...................................... now to have a go at the Intarsia stuff!

Malcolm


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## Alexam

Sorry, last 2 pitures wrong, will edit later


----------



## Claymore

........


----------



## Claymore

..........


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## ChrisR

Malcolm.

I bet you are pleased, it’s been a long wait and if you are like me, I take a long time to make up my mind on things, but when I do, I hate waiting.

But now it is all go, and from the quality of your band saw boxes I predict that great things will emerge from the scroll saw. :wink: 

Take care, and all power to the scroll saw.

Chris.


----------



## AES

Congratulations on your new saw Alexam (Malcolm). A very good review and excellent piccies.

Apart from the NVR switch, about the only difference I can see between yours and mine is that extra silver "bent bar" you are touching in your photo Review 6. I have the big (ish) cast hold down foot but the "forward blade protector" (shall we call it?) is not present on mine. Also I don't have the "bent bar" lower protector that you show in your Review 9.

As per a previous post, I cant see any point in having the latter (fingers can't go anywhere near that lower blade area when cutting), but just as you say, the forward blade protector could be useful for beginners. As I also remarked previously, although a bit big sometimes, I do find that hold down foot useful now and then, especially when cutting thick stock.

Re DE, yours looks just like mine, and although I guess it depends on the amount of suck your vac has, personally I've never had any big bits of waste getting stuck there.

I think you've covered everything very well but perhaps you could check your manual re those blade grub screws, one of which you've shown in pic "Grub Screw"?

My Manual makes quite a big point about making sure that the inner end of the grub screw (that contacts the blade) should be set so that it is exactly flush with the LH edge of the blade slot, not behind, not proud of the slot. It's a matter of screwing it in and out until it's dead flush with the blade slot.

Although the Manual didn't say so, I found that sliding a feeler gauge blade of the same thickness as the slot then allowed me to gently screw the grub screw in until it was just touching the feeler blade - i.e. exactly flush with the surface of the slot. This makes sure that when tightening the thumb screw onto the blade you don't risk damaging the blade or the screw thread in the blade retaining block, thus making sure that the blade is firmly held without needing Herculean pressure on the thumb screw - DAMHIKT!

Apart from that comment, which is NOT intended as any sort of criticism, you've covered it very well indeed and it looks just like the "real Excalibur" apart from the fact that by paying a lower price you've also got a 3 year Warranty  - as opposed to my 2 years -  

Best of luck with it, looking forward to seeing the fruits of your labours.

AES

P.S. I suppose as the scrolling expert was away, you have no info on a foot switch?


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## Valld

Great review Malcolm really thankfull for that. I think my scales are leaning to Ex16 for now. It will cost me about half of the hegner 2S but 6 kg havier. By the way i've checked all shipping methods from UK and Germany to Botswana and the cheapest is about 250 euro, so i will defiinitely go with my suitcase plan, anything else will be extremly expensive, considering i have to pay another 15-20% customs tax on top of the shipping, if I use a courier.


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## Claymore

........


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## Alexam

:lol: :lol: :lol: =D> =D> =D>


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## Lons

Valld":123udosp said:


> Great review Malcolm really thankfull for that. I think my scales are leaning to Ex16 for now. It will cost me about half of the hegner 2S but 6 kg havier. By the way i've checked all shipping methods from UK and Germany to Botswana and the cheapest is about 250 euro, so i will defiinitely go with my suitcase plan, anything else will be extremly expensive, considering i have to pay another 15-20% customs tax on top of the shipping, if I use a courier.



The Hegner 2S isn't a direct comparison with the EX-16 but rather the EX-21 which definitely isn't half the price. The Hegner 2S variable speed is £719 and the Axi EX-21 is £550 so a difference of £169 which is still substantial of course.

I've been mulling these over for weeks and finally came to a decision this morning. I concluded I don't really need large capacity as I have a bandsaw for that and scroll will be used for smaller projects anyway so the AXI model would be the EX-16 at £500. 
Based on that and the fact I prefer cast iron to sheet steel and the EX motor looks as if it might be brush type rather than induction I've ordered a Hegner multicut 1 v/s and they threw in a quick clamp foc. At £488 including carriage it's slightly cheaper than the Axi model anyway. I get it Monday


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## Lons

Nice review Malcom =D>


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## Alexam

CORRECTION - the forward and back setting of the blade requires the motor to be turned. I have added this to the review. Sorry for the mistake in my rush.

Malcolm


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## scrimper

Lons":1ocxde3f said:


> The Hegner 2S isn't a direct comparison with the EX-16 but rather the EX-21 which definitely isn't half the price. The Hegner 2S variable speed is £719 and the Axi EX-21 is £550 so a difference of £169 which is still substantial of course.
> 
> I've been mulling these over for weeks and finally came to a decision this morning. I concluded I don't really need large capacity as I have a bandsaw for that and scroll will be used for smaller projects anyway so the AXI model would be the EX-16 at £500.
> Based on that and the fact I prefer cast iron to sheet steel and the EX motor looks as if it might be brush type rather than induction I've ordered a Hegner multicut 1 v/s and they threw in a quick clamp foc. At £488 including carriage it's slightly cheaper than the Axi model anyway. I get it Monday



To be honest I think you have made the right choice, the one thing that puts me off is the use of a universal or carbon brush motor and the AXI models are equipped with them, of course they use them because they are cheaper and much easier to equip with variable speed control using cheap and simple electronics. The Hegners are fitted with a top quality induction motor which is practically 'bullet proof' and will almost certainly never give any problems. Another reason is that any machine equipped with a brush type motor is going to be noisier more harsh and will be more prone to vibration.

A good example, I have two quality scroll saws one is a British made diamond which is built like a 'brick chicken house' very heavy and quality made however it is equipped with a brush motor similar to the AXI range and their is no way you could consider using it such is the vibration unless it is securely bolted down to a substantial base, in fact the company that made it advised me to bolt it to a concrete floor!

A few years later a bought a Hegner and what a revelation it was, it was perfectly possible to use it especially at the slower speeds just resting on the worktop, I could not believe how quiet and smooth running the Hegner was and it is the one thing I have never regretted buying. Hegners are very expensive and back in 1999 when I bought it (£436) I was concerned about spending so much but one soon forgets the cost however if you buy a saw that does not meet up to your expectations every time you use it you will be annoyed and wish you had bought differently.

Many here will think I am being 'picky' about not liking universal/brush motors but every machine that I have bought with such a motor has always been harsh and noisy and I don't enjoy using them, whereas those fitted with induction motors are almost always quiet and smooth running and a pleasure to use. I have machines in my workshop fitted with induction motors that I have owned for over 40 years and never ever had any problems with the motors. 

I spent most of my life working with electronics and motors and experienced 1000's of brush type motors burning out but cannot recall any issues of induction motor failures they just go on forever!

Sorry for the 'lecture' but I just hate brush motors!  :lol:


----------



## AES

If it's any consolation to you scrimper, I don't think you're being "picky" about brushed v brushless motors at all.

There's no doubt that when I compared Hegner and Excalibur, one reason why the Hegner felt "a better machine overall" to me is because of that very quiet brushless motor on the Hegner.

Having said that however, there's no doubt that brushed motors CAN be made to run pretty smoothly and quietly, and in fact the vast majority of motors in all our tools today are the brushed "universal" type - some with (much) more, some with less vibration - until you get to "professional" machines that is.

My Excalibur is a case in point, as in reality you just can't hear the motor itself above the noise that the blade cutting through the wood makes and it LOOKS as if the Axi versions have the same motor (60 V DC).

But there's no doubt that my Excalibur vibrates much less when bolted to the bench, and if I was to do away with the hard rubber castors that allow the bench to move (which I will not do) the vibration would be even less - probably down there with the Hegner.

Any decently-designed tool will allow for the inherent vibration of a brushed motor by ensuring that all the attached components are designed to dissipate the forces generated by vibration. I think my Excalibur is a case in point.

But in the end "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice", and personally I just felt my saw was better value for money than the the Hegner. Assuming the Axi versions are "carbon copies" of the "real Excalibur" (which they appear to be) then that price differential is even better against the Hegner.

AES


----------



## Valld

I don't even think for a second to argue which motor is better. Induction motors by design are far more reliable, quiet and smooth running. But I don't think the vibration in a scroll saw comes from the motor itself. Not having experience with other scroll saws, I just want to share my observations on my cheap Ryobi. Just a month after purchase and with no more than 30 hours working time I decided to disassemble the saw completely and check the pivot bearings and internals in general. If not assembled properly this cheap machines can degrade very quickly and become scrap on your garage shelf. I'm not going to get into details and make a review of this saw, just want to say that when I disconnect the link between the motor and the lower arm I started the motor just to see if there is any difference. And there wasn't, same bad vibration on certain speed settings, mostly unusable in the middle. Then I removed the heavy balancer connecting the motor axsis to the link. Started the motor again and man, what a difference! No vibrations at all, whisper quiet, from lower to top speed. By the way the motor looks exactly like the EX motors. The vibration is caused by badly designed balancer wheel. Not to discuss the gap in the sleeves where the saw arms are pivoting and the thin cheap aluminum housing where they are mounted, this just adds to the picture and makes the saw even worst. I personally think that Hegner saws (which have exactly the same construction as my Ryobi) are just designed to perfection. Add to this using high quality materials (including the motor) and you get a the ultimate device. Simple and reliable. What I don't like in Excaliburs is the excessive amount of moving parts, bearings, arms and pivots to achieve the same result - a blade moving up and down with certain speed. It doesn't do it better than the Hegner saws, but they have some neat side features for people who need them - the drive mechanism tilts instead of the table, the upper arm can be lifted and quick top feeding is possible because of the easily accessible bottom quick blade clamp. For now I'm only interested in 3d puzzles intarsia and compound cutting and if I don't see a need for this extra features that the EX has, I will probably buy a Hegner. 2s most probably.


----------



## Alexam

Tune Up Update...............
Spent this afternoon making sure that the blade was completly verticle from the side and the front. Part of this involved making sure that the arm was parallel with the table and a tweak of the large knob on the back of the arm soon did this. The adjustment of the virtical blade from the front involved moving that tiny grub screw, mentioned earlier IN just a tad to move it slightly right and line it up. 

Next was the vertical from the side, which involved turning the motor by gently loostening the three screws holding it in just enough for the motor to be turned.





Moving it anti-clockwise in my case (yours may be different) just about a full screw position. If you look closely, you can see the pencil mark I put around the original position,(in line with the bolt- click on the image) , which I would suggest is a good idea for anyone before moving the motor. With the blade is moving at it's slowest setting, gently turn the motor whilst observing the side vertical stroke of the blade. As it comes into the correct position, the motor is even quieter. Then lock it off, and it should remain correctly positioned, but worth checking occassionally.

I did not feel happy with loading to blade into the lower clamp, as it can be pushed down too low, leaving not enough blade to reach position on the top clamp. Looking at the entrance of the clamp, it apeared to allow the blade to move down as far as you allowed it, so I decided to have a closer look by removing the clamp. Two bolts hold it in place



and by carefully removing these, the clamp can be freed, but be careful that the two small bushes do not drop out of the arms.





In fact the blade slot does have a stop position, just below the tightening peg and the grub screw, but if the blade is not delivered vertically, this can be missed and the blade then travels as low as it wishes. I decided to put in a second stop to prevent this and a small wooden splinter with super-glue was enough.




with that in place, it should make it easier to load the blade, for me at least, so I then fitted the clamp back in place.

With the blade now completly virtical, I decided to test this with a block of wood, cutting a small grove and thenmoving that cut behind the blade to make sure it fitted the same slot, which it did.

I then thought I would try a 2" block of pine, just to see how it coped. Low and behold, the hold-down clamp will not allow that size of work as it gets in the way at its maximum height, so it needed removing. WOW... that's a manufacturers fault.
Anyway, heres the cut





So that's it for today.

Malcolm


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## Claymore

.........


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## Claymore

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## Lons

Excellent reviews Malcolm

Shame we didn't live closer, would be valuable information to put the Hegner 1v and Ex-16 against each other for direct comparison.


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## scrimper

Valld":2a2zmmr7 said:


> Induction motors by design are far more reliable, quiet and smooth running. But I don't think the vibration in a scroll saw comes from the motor itself.



IMHO if you have any metal machine that is equipped with a harsh noisy motor vibration will be transmitted to other parts of the machine, understandably due to the design of a scroll saw they are prone to vibration but as many of will attest it is possible to make a scroll saw that does not vibrate excessively and the use of an induction motor plays quite an important part in this.


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## scrimper

Claymore":1yh0b8cs said:


> does anyone know what type of motor is fitted to the Hegner clone from AXMINSTER TRADE SERIES AWFS18? just wondered as its VERY quiet with no vibration ... I thought they all had the same motors but ya learn something everyday.
> Malcolm did you get a packet of mixed blades free with your saw? if so the number 3's are superb but don't know what brand they are (I always use Pegas now but loved the free ones when i got my saw)
> Can't wait to see the new saws in action, love it when someone gets a new bit of kit (love it more if i do though lol)
> Cheers and have fun
> Brian



I have not tried the AWFS18 myself but looking at it's design and features it looks practically the same as a Hegner to me but at a much reduced cost, had this been available when I bought my Hegner I would probably have bought the AWFS18 myself.


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## Valld

scrimper":vluk6eow said:


> Valld":vluk6eow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Induction motors by design are far more reliable, quiet and smooth running. But I don't think the vibration in a scroll saw comes from the motor itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO if you have any metal machine that is equipped with a harsh noisy motor vibration will be transmitted to other parts of the machine, understandably due to the design of a scroll saw they are prone to vibration but as many of will attest it is possible to make a scroll saw that does not vibrate excessively and the use of an induction motor plays quite an important part in this.
Click to expand...


Sure scrimper, your statement is correct in general, it just doesn't apply for scroll saws, even the cheapest ones does not have harsh noisy motors. Induction motors are superior and last forever, but they do not reduce vibration. Just take any heavily vibrating scroll saw, disconnect the arm and remove the balancer\excentic wheel and you will see no vibrations and quiet motor. Except in cases where the motor is damaged.


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## Valld

Malcolm, I think this is the best review I've seen so far on EX series scroll saws, Excalibur and Axi, thank you for the time spend to share with us!


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## AES

Excellent review Malcolm (Alexam), thanks.

I like your idea of the sliver of wood in the lower blade clamp, very good idea. When changing blades I still miss that stop sometimes (but now only occaisonally), so will incorporate your mod - "why didn't I think of that?"

Thanks.

=D> 

AES


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## Alexam

The thing is Andy, if the first stop is missed, the the blade would automatically be sloping backwards, so best to try and get it virtical from the start. The top clamp is much easier, so I must remember to load from the lower clamp always.

Malcolm


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## AES

You're exactly correct Malcolm, I have done that several times - although in my case anyway, I mostly got the blade so low down that it would hardly enter the upper holder!  

Although I do that very seldom now (I guess it's just a question of getting used to it), I think your mod is both simple and effective, so as above, I'll be doing just that myself (when I "getta roundtoit")!

Thanks.

AES


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## scrimper

Valld":ffdhp1n4 said:


> scrimper":ffdhp1n4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Valld":ffdhp1n4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Induction motors by design are far more reliable, quiet and smooth running. But I don't think the vibration in a scroll saw comes from the motor itself.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMHO if you have any metal machine that is equipped with a harsh noisy motor vibration will be transmitted to other parts of the machine, understandably due to the design of a scroll saw they are prone to vibration but as many of will attest it is possible to make a scroll saw that does not vibrate excessively and the use of an induction motor plays quite an important part in this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sure scrimper, your statement is correct in general, it just doesn't apply for scroll saws, even the cheapest ones does not have harsh noisy motors. Induction motors are superior and last forever, but they do not reduce vibration. Just take any heavily vibrating scroll saw, disconnect the arm and remove the balancer\excentic wheel and you will see no vibrations and quiet motor. Except in cases where the motor is damaged.
Click to expand...


Think we will have to agree to disagree on this then. All the machines I have that are equipped with brush motors are harsh and noisy and not particularity pleasant to use, whereas those with induction motors are smooth and quiet generally, just one example I have a old Dewalt Radial arm saw which is very powerful has a induction motor and is a pleasure to use whereas my sliding mitre chop saw with brush motor is noisy harsh and I hate using the damn thing, (only use is as a portable saw).


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## Alexam

A little bit of a Hickup I think? This is not a complaint, just something that needs correcting. I love the machine.

Continuing with the investigation of the new toy, it seems that the tilting of the machine to 40 degrees canot be done both sides. Obviously someone has not checked this because the large turning knob gets to the dust extractor outlet at about 30 degrees and cannot move further. Even with the knob removed and turning the spindle, it still reaches the outlet, but that is just about 40degrees, so even a smaller knob will not work. It really needs a new design on the outlet pipe, which in any case could be smaller. What they have done with the dust extraction is really excellent and having hooked up the vac, it works extreemly well.

I have let Axminster know about the problem as well as the difficulty cutting 2" work unless the blade is 'exactly' at maximum without removal of the hold down foot.

I wanted to remove the lower blade protection under the table, but this will require removal of the table to get at the screws. Even tilting the table will not allow access to that fitting. A small point, but it could have been fitted differently. I know it is for schools protection, which is a good thing, but I find it a little awkward when fitting the blade.

Malcolm


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## scrimper

To be honest personally I would not find lack of tilt both sides much of a problem as I don't often do bevel cutting and most saws are limited in tilting both ways.
However the AXI ad does state


> Arm tilts 45° left and right


yet in the specification it says


> Arm Tilt -35° to + 45°


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## Alexam

I'm not bothered either. Just reporting the fact and that it is a fault. Doubt I would ever need that amount of tilt.


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## Valld

Hi Malcolm, I hope you are happy scrolling with the new toy . I have a few questions:

1. Is there any vibrating in the saw on particular speeds, or it is smooth running throughout the whole range?
2. Can you bypass/remove the big safety switch on the back side easy and most important, if you remove it, can the saw be operated with a simple on/of (momentary) foot switch?


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## Alexam

BE VERY CAREFUL.............................if you start making changes to anything, you may invalidate the guarantee. 

I have asked one of the managers at Axminster to look at the foot switch question and also I commented on the way the wiring of the NVR switch has been done and if it was done that way to facilitate a foot switch?. He will come back to me on this, but suggest that you wait a while to see what does come back and don't try and jump the gun.

Regards vibration, I have now bolted the Ex16 to the bench on a stiff sponge mat and mostly there is very little vibration. However, if you turn the speed variation knob around, at certain revolutions, there is a slight increase in vibration at some speeds. However, I am pleasantly surprised how little vibration there is and how quiet it is compared to the last bandsaw I had.

Malcolm


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## scrimper

Alexam":yf435kc2 said:


> Regards vibration, I have now bolted the Ex16 to the bench on a stiff sponge mat and mostly there is very little vibration. However, if you turn the speed variation knob around, at certain revolutions, there is a slight increase in vibration at some speeds. However, I am pleasantly surprised how little vibration there is and how quiet it is compared to the last bandsaw I had.
> 
> Malcolm



Interesting about the mat as a 'damper' did you try it first without the mat? Only reason I ask is that when I bought my Diamond saw from the person who designed them (the late Doug Woodward) I mentioned about using rubber bushes under it when mounting and he advised against and said it was best bolted down directly to the bench and the bench should be bolted to the floor!


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## CHJ

From purely an engineering point just be aware that if you dampen whole machine vibration by clamping the main structure then whatever the out of balance component is causing it is going to be restrained to its full force potential at the axis of the support of that component.*
Not a problem if bearings, links etc. are robust and can take the 'hammering' but a plastic or soft metal bearing or component for instance will be subject to heavier loads because the inertia can't be traded off by machine movement.

Best if the vibration can be reduced if not totally illuminated, often it only takes a small weight in the right place to balance a crank or similar, tack on with hot glue to test, possibly fix with CA or epoxy for permanent fix.

Having said that I suppose something like a well made (robust) scroll saw may take years to wear a bush or cause a component to fail, but something to be considered with cheaper and possibly more prone to problem machines.

*Think of what happens if you don't balance a car tyre/wheel, the whole suspension and steering chain has to handle the vibration load, clamp the steering wheel rigidly and it's universal knuckle or gearbox takes the termination load instead of your flexible hands and arm..


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## martinka

scrimper":1h7g6ayz said:


> Interesting about the mat as a 'damper' did you try it first without the mat? Only reason I ask is that when I bought my Diamond saw from the person who designed them (the late Doug Woodward) I mentioned about using rubber bushes under it when mounting and he advised against and said it was best bolted down directly to the bench and the bench should be bolted to the floor!



Hah! When I bought my Diamond, I did exactly as you suggested and the vibration was reduced.  Mind you, the real reason I put the bushes underneath was because at the fastest speed, the spindryer belt was hitting the bench.


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## Alexam

In fact, when I was setting it up, it was just on ther bench and it was very quiet and not much vibration at all. I then put it on a hard, pressed foam mat, which seemed better, but when bolted down to the bench, was a 'tad' noisier and with moderate vibtation. I have since loostened the bolts so that it is simply 'in place' but not solidly bolted down and it's better.

Malcolm


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## Lons

Hmm interesting :-k 

I've just today bolted my new Hegner to a ply baseboard so it's moveable but can be clamped to a bench and I've cut and fitted some 6mm solid rubber packing washers. There's almost no vibration.

Bob


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## scrimper

Lons":1fz5huiw said:


> Hmm interesting :-k
> 
> I've just today bolted my new Hegner to a ply baseboard so it's moveable but can be clamped to a bench and I've cut and fitted some 6mm solid rubber packing washers. There's almost no vibration.
> 
> Bob



In Fairness the Hegner generates hardly any vibration especially at the lower speeds.


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## Alexam

Here's a funny one, I was scrolling today and when adjusting the speed, the telescopic arm of an ariel attached to an old radio on the bench was vibrating. At certain speeds it was almost stationary and the table almost without vibration, but at other speeds, the ariel wobbled a lot and that indicated more vibration on the table. Perhaps scrollsaws should have a telescopic ariel fitted for spoeed adjustment. Silly, but it helped to watch this new discovery today.


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## AES

Casting my mind back to apprenticeship studies (a LONG time ago I admit) it's something to do with the aerial "rod" reaching resonant frequency (or one of the harmonics thereof).

In my earlier aeromodelling days you could get a rev counter for model engines (before modern, cheap, digital electronics) which consisted of different lengths of stiff piano wire "tuned" by length & thickness to different rev bands. You just held the tool against, for example, the cylinder head and the length of wire which vibrated told you the rpm of the motor when running. Good for testing on different props. A bit Heath Robinson but worked fairly well and accurate to within about 1,000 rpm as I remember.

AES


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## Claymore

.........


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## Alexam

Interesting though guys, the last few days having switched off with the front switch and not turned power off the mains, next time into the workshop and the same switch starts it. The NVR has not cut in ????? Couls be something to do with the Sat Nav I suppose?


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## Aggrajag

I thought NVR only cut in when mains was cut? Using the front switch all the time would work as expected like a saw without NVR?


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## Claymore

.........


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## Aggrajag

Claymore":1o03598l said:


> If you turn it off at the mains socket then the NVR will need to be switched before using, if you just turn the saw off using the switch on the actual saw then next time it will just turn on ......using the same switch on the saw. Hope that makes sense 9-)


That's what I meant too, easy to think, hard to put in writing without chance of misinterpretation


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## scrimper

I have a Dewalt radial arm saw like that. it has a switch on the top arm and a starter/NVR below, I just use the front switch. 
It works this way because the switch is wired after the NVR so cannot cut out.


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## Alexam

So......... if the switch is wired _after_ the NVR, is it then possible to use a foot switch connected to the 'switch' after the NVR and then 'that' would not be a bother. Or am I too daft?


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## Valld

That's what I was thinking, if you don't want to completely remove the NVR.


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## scrimper

Alexam":1qrea8t0 said:


> So......... if the switch is wired _after_ the NVR, is it then possible to use a foot switch connected to the 'switch' after the NVR and then 'that' would not be a bother. Or am I too daft?



Generally speaking the NVR switch is used as the switch to switch the machine on and off and that is the way it should be, the NVR is connected to the mains supply either through a spur box or plug and when you press the on or start button a relay will energise and operate the relay contacts, one pair will connect the mains to the machine and another contact will keep the supply to the relay coil to keep the main contacts connected until either the off button is pressed or the mains is switched off at the plug or spur box, if you connect a switch between the NVR and the machine it would leave the NVR in an on position unless it had a no load device or such like fitted, I would imagine you could use a foot switch if a simple NVR was fitted. However IMHO the NVR is normally the correct and safe way to switch a machine on/off.

The principle of a simple NVR is that if the mains goes off suddenly and you start fiddling with the machine it will not come back on suddenly, without a NVR the mains may come back on and start the machine with your hands in the way!


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## martinka

On my Hegner, I wired the footswitch between the NVR and the motor, left the motor switch on permanently, and used the NVR switch to switch it on and off, as Scrimper says. If it's a momentary footswitch, it is almost like an NVR in that if the mains goes off, then when it comes back on, there's no power to the saw - unless you sat there with your foot on the switch waiting for the power to return.  Consequently, when I swapped my motor from single speed to variable speed, I didn't bother wiring the NVR switch in. Of course, it's still possible, but highly unlikely, that I might accidentally stand on the footswitch. The NVR switch is now a much needed addition to my metal cutting bandsaw.


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## scrimper

Have to be honest I have never found a need to have an NVR on my scroll saw, IMHO it's just about the safest machine you can use, I do have them on most other machines inc my belt/disc sander.


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