# Holding timber on your bench without a vice?



## matmac (2 Apr 2012)

Currently on a holiday break from my furniture making course and as i am home i feel as tho i am stranded with out any survival kit. I am trying to make do with my small light workbench and uneven floor. I am as i said before a student so have few funds so am trying to make jigs to make my life easier to work with purely hand tools on a small budget i.e nothing lol. I am struggling to simple hold timber securely. Suggestions for useful jigs would be brilliant with all aspects particularly holding timber securely so i can plane it but also any good ones you can think of. I have had a quick scan though the index but any pointers would be great.
Thank you for your time.
Matt


----------



## paulm (2 Apr 2012)

How about a simple batten nailed or screwed to the top of the bench as a simple but effective planing stop ?

Cheers, Paul


----------



## matmac (2 Apr 2012)

Thanks thats a nice solution haha seems so simple. il give it a go.
Matt


----------



## paulm (2 Apr 2012)

It works surprisingly well  

Put another batten at right angles too if you need to plane at more of an angle on the timber, so that you are pushing the timber into the corner against the two battens.

Lots of variations on the theme possible, including a couple of parallel battens and the use of folding wedges to hold the timber between them, sure there is more I can't think of at the moment..........

Cheers, Paul


----------



## matmac (2 Apr 2012)

That honestly is wicked i love solutions like that cheap and easy  thanks
Matt


----------



## Alf (2 Apr 2012)

Coupla ideas on a theme here and here.


----------



## matmac (2 Apr 2012)

defiantly food for thought thank you both very much keep them coming if there are more  thinking more face side as well as edging jigs?


----------



## Hudson Carpentry (2 Apr 2012)

Yes its an effective solution and one I still use regularly. I have a piece of ply on my bench shelfs which I place in the vice as a back stop when belt sanding. When planing wide pieces I simply just use nails into my bench.


----------



## AndyT (3 Apr 2012)

The old style wooden handscrews have the extra benefit that they will lie flat and stable on the bench, and can themselves be clamped down if needed. Here I am using one for morticing:







and another similar:


----------



## Jacob (3 Apr 2012)

If it's a bouncy bench it'll help to brace it against a wall in the direction you plane or saw. Clamp/nail/screw a suitable board or batten on, to reach the wall.
Also wedges are really handy in 100s of ways, e.g. nailed on stops as recommended above, with wedges for adjustment.


----------



## SteveB43 (3 Apr 2012)

> From AndyT
> The old style wooden handscrews have the extra benefit that they will lie flat and stable on the bench, and can themselves be clamped down if needed. Here I am using one for morticing:



I've seen quite a few plans for these and they feature heavily in Robert Wearing's books on Jigs and tips, but must admit to being completely flummoxed :? as to where to buy the hardware to make these types of clamps. It's not something you can walk into the DIY sheds to buy, and dont bother asking anyone there for advice, you may as well be from another planet... (I know :wink: where to get the wood from...)
Also to create the threads in the wood, is this just a tap n die set? I've seen a few US articles on creating threads in wood using kits available over there, very few UK suppliers though. Here's a US from Garrett Wade
http://www.garrettwade.com/complete-tap-die-set-1-2-in/p/98N11.01/

Toolpost though have this, 
http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Thread_Cutting/thread_cutting.html

which looks the same, but pricey though?


Any suggestions for suppliers or articles on how to build these would be much appreciated.  


Cheers
Steve,


----------



## bugbear (3 Apr 2012)

SteveB43":1wcn6div said:


> > From AndyT
> > The old style wooden handscrews have the extra benefit that they will lie flat and stable on the bench, and can themselves be clamped down if needed. Here I am using one for morticing:
> 
> 
> ...



Don't confuse traditional wooden handscrews with the more versatile ones by Jorgensen (although they're also fairly old now).

Trad is here:

http://www.woodwork-magazine.com/index.php/archives/65

The Jorgensen ones are available as kits 

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.a ... 72&p=59472

I don't know of a UK source - but google tells me that their UK agent is Chesterman Marketing

http://www.chestermanmarketing.com/#/ad ... 4545030866

BugBear


----------



## AndyT (3 Apr 2012)

BB's linked article is a good guide on how to make these. 

It's not very clear from my pictures, but the first one is an old Woden with metal screws, as above. If you only want a little one, then Axminster sell a finished article which is cheap enough to put you off making your own, or you could potentially make new wooden parts for it.

Of the wooden clamps, one I bought second hand, the other is a copy I made myself. I did the threading with exactly the threadbox you showed - there must be one Chinese factory supplying the world. I used holly for one threaded bar, beech for the other, and an unidentified hardwood for the jaws. All are fine - you can find suitable sized bits of beech from broken furniture.

I have a 3/4" thread cutter, bought from RDG (who sell mostly engineering stuff) after a tip-off on here, but they've stopped selling them. I think it was about £26.

Rutlands do sell them - if you can find them - but at £49.95 which is a bit steep even with 12% off for Easter.

They do seem to be a very hard tool to search for - nobody seems to know which section they fit in, and there are too many names.


----------



## Cheshirechappie (3 Apr 2012)

SteveB43":23extr4q said:


> > From AndyT
> > The old style wooden handscrews have the extra benefit that they will lie flat and stable on the bench, and can themselves be clamped down if needed. Here I am using one for morticing:
> 
> 
> ...




To make the Bob Wearing type of clamp, B&Q sell 'threaded rod' (a.k.a. 'studding' or 'stud-iron') in a range of sizes, and about 3' long. A couple of lengths of M8 (which just means Metric threadform of 8mm outside diameter) and a couple of bags of nuts would make several medium-sized clamps, with maybe M12 for big 'uns. Using the nuts sunk into the wooden bits of the clamp would save the need to cut threads in the wood. If you drill handles out slightly larger than threadsize and fix the thread with epoxy, that saves threading the handle, too. Engineering threads wouldn't last very long in wood anyway - most wooden threads are very 'coarse' by metalwork standards.

To cut the threaded rod, you'd need a hacksaw (junior would be fine), and you'd need a small file - say 6" hand or flat second cut - to clean off the burrs so that a nut will run on and off easily. A spanner to fit the nuts (adjustable will do), and you're sorted. To hold the threaded rod for cutting, either clamp it between two pieces of scrap wood, or run on three nuts, positioning two at either extremes of the vice jaws, and using the third to snug up against one of the other two and stop the rod turning.


----------



## Jacob (3 Apr 2012)

Battens, nails, wedges all good but if you are going to fiddle about a bit and spend money you might as well cut the cackle and go direct to a proper bit of kit. I just got this on ebay for £20 - brand new under the rust! It's the top o the range 52 1/2D with a DOG!! luxury.
They aren't always there when you want them but if you put a search in one will turn within a couple of weeks or so.
I've stuck it on the other side of my old bench so I've now got two. Very handy being able to swap sides, or to leave something unfinished in one while you carry on with the other


----------



## Digit (3 Apr 2012)

A proper jig Matt takes the idea of the two pieces of timber nailed to the bench as follows.
A piece of ply with a batten attached at the side, the ply acts as the stop and the batten prevents sideways movement.
Two dowels through the ply into holes in the bench top. The jig drops into the holes or you can simply clamp the ply base down to the bench top.

Roy.


----------



## SteveB43 (4 Apr 2012)

Hi, 
Thanks for the articles, links and info on how to make the Bob Wearing type of clamp, I'll look out for some threaded rod, nuts etc over the next few weeks..
A threadbox approach, maybe later....
Cheers and have a good Easter All...


----------



## matmac (5 Apr 2012)

haha thanks Roy


----------



## Benchwayze (20 Apr 2012)

You can always sit on a piece that you are morticing with hand-tools. Extreme I know, but some workers just do things that way!


----------



## Jacob (20 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":20p076pj said:


> You can always sit on a piece that you are morticing with hand-tools. Extreme I know, but some workers just do things that way!


Not extreme - quite normal and traditional. You do it on a saw horse, or even better - a purpose made mortice stool. There's one in Ellis I believe.
Actually saw horses are extremely useful, especially in the absence of a proper bench. They are essential accessories in any case.


----------



## Benchwayze (20 Apr 2012)

Jacob":1sq8k69g said:


> Benchwayze":1sq8k69g said:
> 
> 
> > You can always sit on a piece that you are morticing with hand-tools. Extreme I know, but some workers just do things that way!
> ...



Yes Jacob.. Thanks. 

Happy Morticing and I hope you are recovering.

Watch your step in future eh?


----------



## Jacob (20 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":njsp4xwd said:


> ....
> Happy Morticing and I hope you are recovering.
> 
> Watch your step in future eh?


Getting better ta. Had my brace adjusted to 60º yesterday - can bend knee but can't put any weight on leg for 10 weeks!
Sitting here in a pineappleing wheel chair! Could be a lot worse - had a visit from a mate who has just had triple bipass heart op, aneurism removed, veins taken from leg for the bypass, new knee joint pending when he's recovered from round one!


----------



## Benchwayze (20 Apr 2012)

Good to hear. Just do a bit of whittling to keep your hand in m'man. 
Knee replacement? Bin there, and waiting for Cameron.. Well waiting for the other one to be done, long overdue.
Getting there.
Cheers


----------



## Digit (20 Apr 2012)

Yep! Certain jobs can be undertaken on a saw horse very much easier than on a bench, mortices for one, but why oh why do they make the damn things with four legs now a days?

Roy.


----------



## Jacob (20 Apr 2012)

Cheaper than 5? Easier than 6?
Dunno. You tell us! Anyway _they_ don't make them - _you_ do. 
They need at least 4 legs and these on plan should splay and extend slightly further than the length of the top so that the thing is inherently stable. They get used as a step-up a lot, and if properly done you can stand on one leg right at the end without it falling over.


----------



## Digit (20 Apr 2012)

> Cheaper than 5? Easier than 6?



Better than one!?

Roy.


----------



## Digit (21 Apr 2012)

For the benefit of jacob and any others who might be interested, this is a horse...

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... bQ&cad=rja

Roy.


----------



## Harbo (21 Apr 2012)

I have some similar ones but with 4legs (Norms design).

Rod


----------



## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Digit":350gkl8b said:


> For the benefit of jacob and any others who might be interested, this is a horse...
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... bQ&cad=rja
> 
> Roy.


There's a trad design with three legs - two as per normal on one side and the third in the middle of the other side - I think intended as table trestles.
Yes 3 legs sits on uneven ground. So does four (with a wedge!).
4 better for a step-up though, and generally more stable.
The chap on the video sounds a bit toothless - I wonder if he lost them falling off his saw horse. :lol:


----------



## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Jacob":24rp5tid said:


> Digit":24rp5tid said:
> 
> 
> > For the benefit of jacob and any others who might be interested, this is a horse...
> ...



He's likely to lose more than a few teeth if he carries on climb-cutting with a circular saw! :shock: :shock: A saw doesn't care how long you've been at it, or how strong you might be! Still, they're his body parts, not mine. 


I like this idea, for those who are short on space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkqhJh2w ... re=related

(The sound's a bit naff, but the idea is okay!)


----------



## Digit (21 Apr 2012)

No Jacob, tother way around. The three legged 'horse' can be stacked BTW.

Roy.


----------



## matmac (21 Apr 2012)

wow massive response thanks for all the tips the climbing cuts seems way to dangerous to be a gd idea to me.
Matt


----------



## dedee (27 Apr 2012)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned these. 






Adapted from one of BB's ideas.
Not necessary to use bench dogs and pups can be just as easily clamped to the bench or table


----------

