# Jet JSS-16 first cuts



## Walney Col (19 Jun 2014)

My new Jet 16 arrived yesterday and I've just done my first cuts with it this afternoon. Overall a pleasant enough machine to use but already broken a couple of fine pinless blades and had a few slip out mid stroke through lack of clamping pressure so something to play with there. The blade also doesn't seem to be running true vertically with a bit of left-right motion being evident. It may be that the blade holders aren't in line in fact looking through the hole in the table I swear the bottom holder is at least 1/16" to the right of the top one. 

I was too busy enjoying myself to want to start taking it apart to check alignments on my first day but it certainly looks as if it has potential. It's fairly quiet to use and doesn't vibrate noticeably anywhere below 90% of full speed, the blower works but only really becomes effective ABOVE 90% speed, changing pinned blades is easy peasy and changing pinless ones is only troublesome for fear of rounding the screw heads out with the allen key. 

I may do a few mods to it once I've got my first trinket done and become a little more familiar with it but it's definitely a keeper.  







Col.


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## Scrollerman (20 Jun 2014)

Hi Col. 
A couple of things to try are :
If your machine allows it, you could try adjusting the position of the 'cam' on the rotor arm of the motor to the left by 1/16".
If that's not possible, try adding a 1/16" shim/washer to the bottom linkage between the motor cam and bottom arm.
Once you confirm how far out the vertical alingment is, just convert my suggested sizes as quoted by you, to what's required.

Please keep us informed of your progress and mods on this machine.
Happy scrolling.


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## rob39 (20 Jun 2014)

Looks good keep us posted on how it performs, not ordered mine yet but its between the 

http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jss-16-b ... scroll-saw
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clarke-CSS400B- ... U8C3QP4UJH


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## martinka (20 Jun 2014)

rob39":21nf18zo said:


> Looks good keep us posted on how it performs, not ordered mine yet but its between the
> 
> http://www.axminster.co.uk/jet-jss-16-bench-top-variable-speed-scroll-saw
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Clarke-CSS400B-16-Scroll-Saw/dp/B006JOM6D0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=2D5MV8HRRP6UT&coliid=I342U8C3QP4UJH


 :mrgreen:


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## Walney Col (21 Jun 2014)

As predicted the allen head on the top blade holder rounded off today (in spite of still losing its grip on the blade a couple of times an hour) so I'm now having to use pinned blades till I can find a more suitable screw for it. A minor niggle I know but not something you should really have to fix on a saw that's only run a few hours. :-(

Col.


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## ColeyS1 (21 Jun 2014)

I've got the same machine and don't want to spend any more on it. I replaced the soft bolts with harder ones but am now faced with having to find the 'sweet spot' to get pinless blades to hold. It makes using it a chore, so it doesn't get used much :? 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## Walney Col (21 Jun 2014)

I have a set of axminster pinless blade holders I might try. By the look of it the small chromed metal part above the jet's stock blade holder (see photo) can be used as the top pivot required for an axminster style blade holder. It's a tiny bit too wide at the moment and I'm not sure whether there's the same setup on the bottom arm but it might be worth looking in to if you don't mind sacrificing using pinned blades as well.




Col.


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## martinka (21 Jun 2014)

ColeyS1":9ati3vcq said:


> I've got the same machine and don't want to spend any more on it. I replaced the soft bolts with harder ones but am now faced with having to find the 'sweet spot' to get pinless blades to hold. It makes using it a chore, so it doesn't get used much :?
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk



Make a handle for the clamp bolt, or buy an indexable handle, it make a big difference to usability.


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## keithkarl2007 (24 Jun 2014)

I read somewhere that the pinless blades slip due to milling marks on the clamp. I think they can be easily tidied up with an appropriate file.


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## Walney Col (24 Jun 2014)

Thanks Keith and Martin. I actually took Martins advice and ordered a couple of indexable handles on saturday, I'll let you know if they put me back in business when they arrive.

Col.


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## Walney Col (27 Jun 2014)

I've not been having much fun with my new scroll saw.

The screw in the top blade holder rounded off which rendered it temporarily unusable so I ordered a couple of 4mm indexable handles only to find that even with them fitted the clamps weren't gripping the blade sufficiently to prevent it slipping out in use. I contacted axminster about the blade holder mounting holes being askew and quick as a flash they posted a couple of replacements out which arrived yesterday. Sadly the replacement blade holders had EXACTLY the same deficiency as the ones I already had, but at least between the two pairs I had one good pair, so that could have turned out worse. 






So searching through the archives here I came across a post addressing the lack-of-grip problem and set to on the holders with a diamond wheel on my dremel with the object of thinning the so-called-flexible-part so that not as much of the clamping pressure was redirected into trying to bend a near-unbendable piece of steel.

That solved the clamping pressure problem completely. Yay me! 

I then set to trying to figure out the blade's side to side movement which I reckon was at least partly to blame for the hish-speed vibration and violent occasional grabbing of the blade. And what I found was very disappointing. The side to side movement was nothing to do with the blade holders, but appears to be an inaccuracy in the lower arm.






The video shows just how out of whack the blade travel is as I hand crank the motor shaft.

[youtube]lWsLwClHgeo[/youtube]

I've contacted Axminster again today but I'm not sure there's anything they could tell me that'd make me feel any better. 

I have to say that although the Jet 16 has some pretty nice features the lack of quality control during manufacture takes it out of the "decent" category of cheap scroll saws and put it squarely amongst the rest of the cheap far east saws.

Col.


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## martinka (27 Jun 2014)

Sorry to hear you are still having problems, Col. The problem with the blade being to one side could be the clamp, rather than the arm. Maybe you can slacken the clamp bolt and twist the clamp slightly, though you have probably tried that already.
One of the problems with that type of clamp is the sides aren't parallel when clamping onto a thin blade. I was going to make new clamps for mine but never got around to buying slitting saws thin enough.


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## Chippygeoff (27 Jun 2014)

Hi Col. I really feel for you and the frustrations you are experiencing, it's so annoying. I have said this a couple of times in the past. Mass produced scroll saws from the far east leave a lot to be desired. There are guys on a production line banging these together with no thought whatsoever as to their use, all they are thinking about is the end of their shift and going home. There is very little if any quality control and at the end of the production line the saws are packaged up, put into a container and shipped to the UK and other countries. The UK supplier gets his container, puts the scroll saws into storage and then ships them off as orders come in. When you open the box it's the first time that scroll saw has seen daylight since it was packed in Taiwan.

When you think of the cost it's quite amazing the actual worth of the saw. The manufacturer has made a huge profit, then there is the cost of the container and shipping and then the supplier is also making a huge profit so it is possible that a £200 saw only cost about £25 to actually produce.

The only person I know with a high degree of skill in solving problems like yours in Martin and hopefully he will read this and offer you some advice on how to correct the lower arm. I sincerely hope you get it sorted. Scroll sawing is a wonderful and addictive hobby but it is spoilt by cheap shoddy tools.


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## martinka (27 Jun 2014)

That reminds me, I'm sure I remember someone broke one of the Axminster clamps and found that it worked better like that.


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## Walney Col (27 Jun 2014)

martinka":1eas067s said:


> That reminds me, I'm sure I remember someone broke one of the Axminster clamps and found that it worked better like that.



Hahaha! I know exactly what you mean Martin. I would have cut through the whole half-clamp to reduce wasted clamping pressure to absolute zero were it not for the fact that I may one day want to put a pinned blade in. Come to think of it I now have two sets of clamps so it may be worth it if I can get the runout sorted. 

Geoff... I know what you mean about swiveling the clamps left and right to try and align the top and bottom blade holders. Sadly, i my case, the amount of runout you see in the photos and video is WITH the top and bottom blade holders twisted to extreme opposing positions already.

Col.


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## martinka (27 Jun 2014)

Chippygeoff":18w2kemc said:


> The only person I know with a high degree of skill in solving problems like yours in Martin



Don't read too much into the above, Geoff just means I like tinkering.


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## Walney Col (27 Jun 2014)

Me too Martin. It'd be an easy enough fix if I had a small enough miller to make a new set of clamps but it's damn annoying that such an important feature in a scroll saw can be so far of of whack even in a cheap product.

I've not heard from Axminster yet so it looks like it'll be monday at the soonest before I know anything.
Col.


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## ColeyS1 (27 Jun 2014)

In an ideal world it needs an aftermarket clamp fitting to it. I really need to see a hegner in action to see how it should be

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk


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## powertools (27 Jun 2014)

I don't normally get involved in this type of thread anymore but your solution to this problem is simple.
The main difference between a budget saw and a top of the range saw is that the more expensive the machine the more time will have gone into it's setup at the factory.
In your first post you said that your initial impression of the machine was good and vibration levels were not bad so that is a good start.
Having now played with it straight out of the box for a while you have encountered a few problems that are easy to fix.

Step 1 is to buy a good quality allen key for the clamp screws the one supplied with the machine will be rubbish.

Step 2 cut a slot in the back of the clamp about 1/2 way through it's thickness to reduce the pressure needed to tighten it.

Step 3 elongate the hole in the clamps that the fixing bolt goes through with a round file in order to be able to align the top and bottom clamps in a parallel fashion twisting the clamps in opposite directions to try and compensate for this problem will only result in the blade being twisted therefore increasing the width of the saw cut and still giving you the same problem by a different means

Step 4 oil the the thread on the blade clamp screw.

Step 5 enjoy the machine that you will now have a better understanding of. 

Scroll saws are simple machines and with a bit of work in the set up even the cheapest can have potential.


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## ardenwoodcraft (27 Jun 2014)

If it helps, I used M4 x 15mm stainless steel caphead bolts in the clamps on my Axminster AWVFS scroll saw. They are a lot stronger and less prone to rounding off than the chinese plastic bolts supplied as standard.

Also, get a good quality 4mm T handled allen key to tighten them with if you can't get indexable handles or thumb screws in that size.

I also widened out the mounting bolt holes in the clamps and ground away some of the metal around the clamp sides to make them a bit more flexible. All of which helped to make it clamp blades reliably and made it a much more usable saw.

The guy I sold it to got a much better than out-of-the-box deal when he bought it from me.


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## Walney Col (28 Jun 2014)

powertools":1nsyqnfh said:


> I don't normally get involved in this type of thread anymore but your solution to this problem is simple.



I've already done everything you suggested apart from filing out the mounting holes and the maths are telling me that wouldn't be enough to fix it. If there's 1mm side to side movement over the 18mm vertical blade travel it means that the top and bottom mounting holes over a 127mm long blade are in the region of 7mm out of alignment horizontally. And with the best will in the world there's no way you could file 3.5mm+ out of opposing sides of the 2 mounting holes, the clamps simply don't have that much meat in them.







In any case if, I bought it to use, not to fix.

Col.


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## Walney Col (28 Jun 2014)

ardenwoodcraft":2ep5miyh said:


> If it helps, I used M4 x 15mm stainless steel caphead bolts in the clamps on my Axminster AWVFS scroll saw. They are a lot stronger and less prone to rounding off than the chinese plastic bolts supplied as standard.



I bought a couple of 40mm long indexable handles for mine to achieve the same result. And I too took the dremel to both clamps in order to make them tighten more reliable - and that appears to have worked well. Sadly the amount of side to side runout looks to be far too great in my case to just file out the mounting holes. :-(

Col.


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## Scrollerman (29 Jun 2014)

Hi Col,
You've had many replies to your problem that haven't worked.
Did you try my suggestions which I now repost below ?

"A couple of things to try are :
If your machine allows it, you could try adjusting the position of the 'cam' on the rotor arm of the motor to the left by 1/16".
If that's not possible, try adding a 1/16" shim/washer to the bottom linkage between the motor cam and bottom arm.
Once you confirm how far out the vertical alingment is, just convert my suggested sizes as quoted by you, to what's required."


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## Walney Col (29 Jun 2014)

Scrollerman":2sonemqn said:


> Hi Col,
> You've had many replies to your problem that haven't worked.
> Did you try my suggestions which I now repost below ?
> 
> ...



I'm not ignoring your suggestion scrollerman and I do understand what you mean. It's just that the misalignment on my saw is in excess of 6mm (the front of the bottom arm being in the region of 7mm to the right of the front of the top arm) and there simply isn't that amount of wriggle room to play with anywhere. Another thing is that I'm still waiting to hear from Axminster. The saw's only a week old and 1mm adjustment I dare say I'd happily set to and see what I could do, but a 6mm+ misalignment is clearly a manufacturing defect and fixing it (even if it's possible) would surely render the warranty null and void.

What's so annoying about it is that for £50 I could have picked a second hand saw up off ebay in which case I'd happily have taken it to bits and done whatever it'd take to fix it.

Col.


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## Scrollerman (29 Jun 2014)

Walney Col":2q836jsq said:


> Scrollerman":2q836jsq said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Col,
> ...



Hi Col,
OK, so please try this and take the blade out first.
Disconnect the bottom arm linkage to the motor cam so both arms are free of bias/pressure.
Put a blade back in and tension as normal, then check the vertical movement.
Do you get a different measurement ?


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## Walney Col (29 Jun 2014)

Scrollerman":36dkke8m said:


> Hi Col,
> OK, so please try this and take the blade out first.
> Disconnect the bottom arm linkage to the motor cam so both arms are free of bias/pressure.
> Put a blade back in and tension as normal, then check the vertical movement.
> Do you get a different measurement ?


Hi Scrollerman.

I did as you suggested and the blade runout while the lower arm was free of any pressure from the drive cam wasn't noticeably different, and neither was there any side play in the lower arm bearing which would have allowed it to move by more than a couple of thou either side anyway.




So I found a length of welding rod which was a snug fit in the threaded blade clamp mounting holes and tried to gauge the overall runout over the length of the blade and as you can see the arms are what I'd describe as nowhere near in alignment.













It's not quite the 7mm misalignment I'd previously estimated it could be, but neither could it be described (IMO) as a reasonable machining tolerance given how vital blade alignment is to any scroll saw. Out of curiosity, would you agree with that Scrollerman or do you still think it may be a salvageable situation without having to machine dedicated top and bottom clamps with at a 4 or 5mm offset?

I still like the rest of the saw, though the vibration already seems noticeably worse at full speed (impossible to use it) than it was straight out of the box. Rightly or wrongly I'm putting that down to the newly added weight of the indexable levers I've added to improve clamping, adding a little bit of weight elsewhere in the mechanism to try and counteract it doesn't phase me though so that's good.

I'd welcome input from anyone as to whether the misalignment as shown in today's photos should be considered normal or not. My position is that as a time served engineer I know I could have got better alignment than that if I'd built the whole thing out of wood.

Col.


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## jonluv (29 Jun 2014)

I know as little about engineering as is humanly possible but the clamps you have look like the ones on a Sealey scroll saw 
So this may be possible 

On Delta some saws the clamp has 2 bolts one to tighten( hold) the blade in and the other on the opposite side of the clamp to align the blade vertical, the reason is that there is a hell of a difference in the thickness os say a 01 and a 12 blade

Perhaps you could tap a hole to fit an adjusting screw ???


John


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## Walney Col (29 Jun 2014)

jonluv":334warx4 said:


> Perhaps you could tap a hole to fit an adjusting screw ???
> 
> John


Thanks for the comment John. If it were a second hand saw I'm sure I could do something along those lines but on the off chance it has to go back for any reason I don't want to do anything that could void the warranty.

Col.


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## jonluv (29 Jun 2014)

Of course ! Sorry my brain was not in gear

But it is a shame that manufacturers or perhaps even buyers do not investigate quality when supplying goods.

Must say I first started scrolling in 1947 and have never had a brand new scroll saw and reading some of the comments on the Forum perhaps that is not such a bad thing.

Good luck

John


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## Scrollerman (30 Jun 2014)

Hi Col,
Thanks for taking the time to post such informative pictures.
It's no wonder you are getting excessive vibration with such a mis-alignment !
I'm glad you disconnected the bottom arm from the motor as it now gives a much clearer picture of what's going on with no bias from the motor connection.
Your 2nd pic shows that the top arm is equally spaced within the saws casing so that's a good pointer it's OK machining wise.
This then points to the bottom arm or casing machining of the bearing housing being at fault as I can't think of anything else that would cause the bottom arm to be so far out apart from a twisted frame !
The bottom clamp shows to be skew-wiff but I'd be amazed if if you had not taken that into account so just give yourself a slap on the wrist for not straightening it lol !
However, if the bottom clamp was straightened, it would just add to the problem given it's position in the pic.

I know by your comments you have the abilty to correct the bearing machining problem, but why should you on a new machine ?
You have a strong case for getting your money back with the pics to back up the problem.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


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## Walney Col (30 Jun 2014)

Thanks Scrollerman, it's reassuring to know that someone with a lot more experience than me thinks it's over the top too.

And yes I did know about the angled clamps, (both top and bottom - though I had to take the top one off to put the rod in) they were put on like that in an attempt to minimise the side to side blade movement so I could carry on cutting but all that happened is that the blade wound up twisted so badly it didn't know which way to cut so I've not been using it at all.

I feel much better now about speaking to axminster tomorrow, but given that the replacement clamps they sent me were both faulty in the same way as the original ones I have little hope of an exchange saw being any better, so unless they're exceptional sales people I think I'll just ask for a refund.

Thanks again for all your help and advise.

Col.


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## ardenwoodcraft (30 Jun 2014)

Hi Col,

Re:- Your last post, if you are going back to axminster to ask for a refund.

Before you take the saw back you could try to gently bend the bottom arm to the left as per your photos to see if it could be brought back into alignment with the top arm. If it doesn't work then you get your refund. If it does work you have a usable scroll saw.

I think if you went for a replacement from axminster you may well end up with a saw with identical problems, as these types of scroll saw all seem to come from clone central in china where thousands are made exactly the same and just painted and labelled differently at the end of the production line.


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## Walney Col (30 Jun 2014)

ardenwoodcraft":8bgd4zsi said:


> Hi Col,
> 
> Re:- Your last post, if you are going back to axminster to ask for a refund.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the suggestion and advice. I checked the state of the bottom arm as I went along, it's cast alloy, very rigid, and couldn't be bent without applying heat for fear of permanent damage and perhaps even breaking. The scroll saw is now packed up and the Axminster van will be calling to take it back probably tomorrow. I was offered a replacement but declined it for the exact reason that you probably would... namely what I saw as the high likelihood of it's replacement having similar defects.

So I'm now on the lookout for another saw. Probably a used one this time as one of the most exasperating aspects of the whole episode has been the fear of voiding the warranty and suddenly finding myself in the position of needing it 6 months down the road.

Col.


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## Scrollerman (30 Jun 2014)

Walney Col":vilmj4av said:


> Thanks Scrollerman, it's reassuring to know that someone with a lot more experience than me thinks it's over the top too.
> 
> And yes I did know about the angled clamps, (both top and bottom - though I had to take the top one off to put the rod in) they were put on like that in an attempt to minimise the side to side blade movement so I could carry on cutting but all that happened is that the blade wound up twisted so badly it didn't know which way to cut so I've not been using it at all.
> 
> ...



Hi Col. No problem m8 as that's what this forum is all about.
Just to put your mind at rest, I have bought many small items and several woodworking machines from Axminster and found them to be very helpful if a problem arises.
In fact, I can't fault them for customer service and no, I am not connected to Axminster in any way other than being a customer !
I am pretty sure you will get a refund without any hassle.


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## Walney Col (1 Jul 2014)

Scrollerman":gtt5o7vb said:


> Hi Col. No problem m8 as that's what this forum is all about.
> Just to put your mind at rest, I have bought many small items and several woodworking machines from Axminster and found them to be very helpful if a problem arises.



I couldn't agree more about Axminster, their staff really did make asking for a refund rather than a replacement the less than stomach churning procedure I usually find it to be. I only wish Jet had lived up to it's reputation as a serious machine tool manufacturer as well but sadly that wasn't to be.

I'm now in the market for another saw as my old banger has already been donated to my youngest daughter. I'm looking at second hand this time since I've resigned myself to the fact that I don't have the money for even a half decent new one.

Col.


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## Scrollerman (2 Jul 2014)

Glad you got a result Col. =D>


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## don83000 (31 Aug 2014)

Just my luck had not seen this post and only this morning ordered a JSS-16 so it now looks like I'm in for a load of grief,just what I need. I only made my mind up today having beeg going round the forums for a week and most forums including this one seem to rate the JSS-16. Live and learn.

Don (homer)


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## Walney Col (1 Sep 2014)

Don't get too downhearted yet Don you might well get a good one. Axminster stand by everything the sell and will offer to replace it immediately or refund you if it's not up to par and the Jet 16 does have some nice features even if quality control is somewhat haphazard.


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## Tim_H (1 Sep 2014)

I have a refurbished one from Axminster and apart from the blade holders needing a bit of tlc (replacement holders are to be fair only a couple of quid so not high end quality) I am happy with it for my first saw.


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## don83000 (1 Sep 2014)

Thanks guys maybe I should hope I get one that was made mid week lol. What should I check for and in what order of importance when it arrives. There has been a mention of "indexed handles" are these a good idea whatever they are.

Thanks Don.


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## Claymore (1 Sep 2014)

The indexed handles are for screwing into the blade clamps and give more leverage to tighten the clamp onto pinless blades, i have them on my scrollsaw and they are a great help due to hand injury probs.
When it arrives make sure you have something solid to stand it on and if you cannot bolt it down then use some sort of G clamp this will help with vibration, when you fit a blade make sure it is square to the table and correctly tensioned (i just go by ear now and tighten until it rings) the standard blades are usually rubbish so try and get some Pegas/Niqua or FD blades as they do make a big difference.
Fingers crossed you will get a decent one and you can get scrolling..... must warn you though its very addictive and you start looking at your furniture and wondering if they will notice six inch off the legs lol
Cheers
Brian


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## finneyb (2 Sep 2014)

Col,

Have you tried roughing the inside of the clamps with sand paper AND the sides of the blade where they are held.
Just a quick pass usually works for me.

Brian


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## Walney Col (2 Sep 2014)

finneyb":1y5ggslw said:


> Col,
> 
> Have you tried roughing the inside of the clamps with sand paper AND the sides of the blade where they are held.
> Just a quick pass usually works for me.
> ...


The problem was the arms not being aligned with each other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWsLwClHgeo


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## Claymore (2 Sep 2014)

the arms were not aligned on my Parkside scroll and the Einhell wasn't much better and unfortunatly they both look just like the Jet..... they should improve their quality control as they have good features etc and look the part but a few seem to be causing probs.


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## don83000 (4 Sep 2014)

Hi guys thanks for the advice,well it arrived yesterday and I have had a wee play and so far it seems to be fine the blade seems to track ok with no side movement and is at 90* to the table when the table is on its stop.As for vibration very little without being bolted down it just sits there up to around 1500 then all hell breaks loose so I think stay under 1500 and all will be fine.I understand you can get Bristol locking handles for these any idea where ?. I got a load of Pegas blades so now to learn what blade is for what. 

Cheers Don


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## Walney Col (4 Sep 2014)

Looks like you got a good one Don!
For bristol levers (aka indexing levers/clamps/handles) try ebay or http://www.wdsltd.co.uk/product/3617/lever-indexing-thermoplastic-with-steel-screw-wds-8227. My Jet took the 4mm dia one and I doubt they'll have changed it.


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## Claymore (4 Sep 2014)

Great news Don! and like Colin said you are one of the lucky one's  I know what you mean about keeping the speed down to reduce the shakes lol the first time i switched the Parkside scrollsaw on it jumped around the sodding workshop!.
I am pleased its ok though and you will soon be scrolling masterpieces! (when you find out how to do then let me know)
Most useful blade for me so far cutting 20mm oak is the Pegas no7 and no 5 (the number 3 is better for thinner stuff) last night i cut some 20mm oak 2mm wide and approx 40mm long in a tight curve using the number 3 and took it very slowly with little pressure and worked a treat.
Have fun
Brian
Ps the Handle Cols mentioned are the same one's i bought and mine are M4 (4mm) they help to tighten the pinless blades.


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## Scrollerman (5 Sep 2014)

Good luck with your new saw Don and please keep us informed of your progress.


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