# fixing into brick walls



## SeanG (7 Apr 2008)

I was asked a DIY question in work today, "When drilling for a fixing into a brick wall, should you drill into the brick or the mortar?"

I always try to drill into the brick where possible, reasoning that mortar is more likely to crumble or allow a raw plug to rotate. A quick google however gave good arguments for both.

Brick could shatter/break under load
Mortar can crumble - Ooh ooh - I got that one!!!!!
Brick cannot be so easily repaired if the fixing in removed (unlike mortar).
Mortar may have been poorly laid and contain voids

I was so sure at the start, and still tend towards brick, but there were plenty of people recommending mortar, so now I'm more confused.

Any opinions??


----------



## momo (7 Apr 2008)

I always drill to the brick, then when removing the fixing i stick mortar in the hole.

I agree with what you say about doing it to the mortar. things fall down.


----------



## 9fingers (7 Apr 2008)

I would always go for the brick as long as there was little risk of drilling into the frog. Not always easy with modern bricks as some have three holes running top to bottom instead of the the more classical frog depression.

Bob


----------



## Digit (7 Apr 2008)

Brick! Whoever suggested mortar should try Lime mortar, that'd cure 'em.

Roy.


----------



## 9fingers (7 Apr 2008)

I quite agree Roy. The original bit of my place as lime mortar.
I think rawlpugs would hold better in my garden soil than the mortar joints in the old walls! 

Bob


----------



## Digit (7 Apr 2008)

I'll say.

Roy.


----------



## brianhabby (7 Apr 2008)

On the assumption that what you hang on a wall is expected to stay there, surely you would _have_ to drill into the brick. Mortar is just too soft.

But what do you do if the wall is plastered? You don't always know what you are drilling into until it's done. If I drill a hole that seems too easy, I always try to drill a replacement nearby. Not always possible of course, you don't want the thing to be peppered with holes.

regards

Brian


----------



## 9fingers (7 Apr 2008)

Quite unusual to have a brick wall plastered IMHO. usually blockwork these days. My place was first built in 1925 with lime mortar but even that has 3" cinder blocks for the internal walls.
Now plugging those with half an inch of lime render is a real challenge!

Bob


----------



## Digit (7 Apr 2008)

Drilling the old cinder blocks was like drilling holes in wire netting!

Roy.


----------



## PowerTool (8 Apr 2008)

9fingers":licdepja said:


> Quite unusual to have a brick wall plastered IMHO.
> 
> Bob



My house (circa.1960) is all plastered brick walls internally;and being ex-council,I'm sure is just one of thousands built like that.Original bricks were solid,new ones have three holes down them - very rare to see a brick with a frog in it round this area.
My daughter lives in Newcastle,and her house has breeze block internal walls,so putting shelves up for her is..interesting..
And yes,I'd fasten to the brick rather than the mortar (plaster permitting.. :wink: )

Andrew


----------



## SeanG (8 Apr 2008)

Thanks All,

That makes me feel a bit better about my advice, my mate in work was fixing a fence post to a neighbors garage, with his permission of course and the guy insisted that the fixing go into the mortar, his wall so he's allowed to say how it's drilled


----------



## Daniel (9 Apr 2008)

Hi all,

The best solution is of course to drill into a brick. But sometimes that isn't possible because the bricks dont tend to be exactly where you want them..

My suggestion is to use the old way, especially if its lime mortar. Hammer a piece of wood into the mortar and then put your screw into that. Never fails. And last for centurys. Plastic plugs are worthless. If the wall is plastered, no problem the woodplugg should be made aprox 30% larger than the hole. This system i hundreds of years old and works like a clock even in the softest of walls/mortars.

Daniel


----------



## Losos (9 Apr 2008)

Daniel":1612eovw said:


> My suggestion is to use the old way, especially if its lime mortar. Hammer a *piece of wood into the mortar *and then put your screw into that.



I would agree with everyone else, into the brick if possible.

Using a piece of wood is (as stated) a well tried method but *time consuming*. 

Plastic plugs are *quicker*, and now I always use my 'hot melt' glue gun with the *long tip and inject a a small amount into the hole *and *quickly* insert the plastic plug. This has proved to be *foolproof* for me since prior to doing this I always had problems with plugs *turning in the hole *regardless of type, size, depth or whatever.


----------



## brianhabby (9 Apr 2008)

Personally, I always use these whenever possible.

You just drill the hole, through the timber straight into the wall and screw the framing screw in. I've used them for all sorts of jobs and never had any problems with them. However, they would be no good at all in mortar, they need something to bite into.

They are also available in different lengths

regards

Brian


----------



## Anonymous (9 Apr 2008)

Losos":oetpqaf9 said:


> Daniel":oetpqaf9 said:
> 
> 
> > My suggestion is to use the old way, especially if its lime mortar. Hammer a *piece of wood into the mortar *and then put your screw into that.
> ...


I do something similar only I use gripfill. Getting the fixing out later can be 'fun' though.


----------



## neilyweely (9 Apr 2008)

yeah, i go with the general consensus and say brick.
Having done a fair few refurbs though i can tell you that there a lot of properties of varying age with plaster on the walls. Don't they call it dotting and dabbing? They use splodges of adhesive straight onto pva'd brick and stick the plasboard onto it. You can use plas-plugs on plaster if what you are fixing is only lightweight, but recently I had a job where i had to fit a set of kitchen wall units to plastered walls, and found that the insulation behind the plaster was about 3 inches thick (silver lined) so ended up having to use LONG wall plugs to go all the way through the plaster and into the brickwork behind.
Best to use the most solid foundation possible for any fixing.And then glue it!!!


----------



## Jake (10 Apr 2008)

If you can see what you are doing, into the brick everytime (at least in solid brick walls, lime mortar).

I couldn't be doing with the gluing the hole stuff, too much pfaff, and have never had a problem with plastic plugs rotating assuming they been given a bit of a bash into the hole before screwing into them.

I use the wood method sometimes, but it is slower and the fixing isn't as good as a plug into solid masonry.


----------

