# Re training to be a Carpenter



## spannermonkey (15 Dec 2008)

At 40 and unemployed I am an amateur woodworker and wondered if it would be too late to train as a qualified Carpenter. I know that professional woodworkers use this forum so my question is what qualifications would I need for someone to employ me once I had re trained?

Are there any courses you would recommend I try and enrol onto?

Finally is there anyone in Suffolk Uk who would give me work experience please?

MTA
Spanny.


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## wizer (15 Dec 2008)

When you say carpenter, what is it you want to do? general chippie work? i.e doors, architraves, first fix? Kitchen fitting? Or are you interested in making furniture? 

You need to work out where you want to end up and work back from there. There are lots of courses out there, I'm sure you'll find the right one.


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## spannermonkey (15 Dec 2008)

I would like to be a workshop wood worker preferably furniture etc.
I am trying to volunteer to assist in helping those with learning difficulties with woodwork as a stepping stone.


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## The_Stig (15 Dec 2008)

I have a lot of people on my carpentry and joinery course who are in their 40's, its a good mixture of people which I think helps. Although we are currently doing basic joints, then staircases and skirtings, etc. next year I think my heart will always lie in the workshop instead of site so I guess although year 3 will be roof construction I'll never venture onto a roof.

There is always workshop work making windows and doors and there is good money to be had as well if you keep your overheads low, maybe working from home.

You could try checking out your local college or maybe the Hotcourses website:

http://www.hotcourses.com/


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## JonnyD (15 Dec 2008)

I work as a pro woodworker. I would rather employ someone who i get on with rather than someone with all the qualifications that I didnt get on with. Obviously having some woodworking talent would help and the ability to do the work. I wouldnt look for a specific grade or qualification just someone who is enthisiastic and works hard and is keen to learn. A bigger firm or joinery company would probably want to see some qualifications.


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## spannermonkey (15 Dec 2008)

That is the sort of employer I would want, someone who would give me a chance. I will try my local college see if they do any night schools.
Thanks for the help so far


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## BradNaylor (16 Dec 2008)

Most local colleges do courses in furniture making, although they tend to be day release type affairs and at a fairly basic level.

Personally, I wouldn't bother.

What I would do in your situation is visit as many small cabinetmakers as you can in your area and get chatting. 'Networking', I think they call it. Do not write letters, do not phone - its a total waste of time. Call round.

Once you have developed a rapport, maybe even after a couple of visits just chatting about woodworking, offer your services to help out with any menial jobs on a casual cash in hand basis. Half of my time is spent sanding wood when I could be doing something more profitable, and I would welcome having someone to call on to help out as and when needed for a few quid an hour. 

This is how things start. Prove yourself as a personable, able, and reliable bloke and pretty soon you will make yourself indispensible to someone.

Another possibility is kitchen fitting. Even in these straightened times kitchen companies are crying out for half decent fitters. Is this something you can do with your current skills?

Don't worry about qualifications or references. As JonnyD says, most small firms are more interested in your personality and ability. Age is actually on your side. As you are 40+ people will assume that you have plenty of experience. You will need your own van and tools, though.

Blag it. You'll soon get found out if you're rubbish!

Cheers
Dan


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## OPJ (16 Dec 2008)

wizer":khmyhj5d said:


> When you say carpenter, what is it you want to do? ...are you interested in making furniture?



NO!!! Never confuse carpenters with furniture makers!! :x :roll: :wink:


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## woody67 (16 Dec 2008)

spannermonkey":380w6nln said:


> I am trying to volunteer to assist in helping those with learning difficulties with woodwork as a stepping stone.



Good look Spanner - let us know how you get on. 
In my experience, furniture making is on the decline due to Health & Safety legislation in places that occupy/employ people with learning disabilities. Sadly it mainly seems to be stick production and hand tool produced bird boxes. 
 

Well done you though fella. One volunteer is better than ten pressed men! 

Mark


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## davin (16 Dec 2008)

Don`t know how far away from Norwich you are.
But I did my city and guilds in cabinet making at City College .
It was a great course ( this is before NVQ)
They did lots of night classes and day release courses. Thoroughly recommended.

Davin


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## The_Stig (16 Dec 2008)

I think I might look into a little furniture making course next year, hopefully something that'll run along side my joinery course... I guess it can only be good to have a range of skills.

As for teaching and helping out with people who have learning difficulties, once a year I show around a class of people from one of the schools and its unbelievable some of the things that people can tell you when they've lost their sight. I always remember one girl who could tell a timber from touch and smell alone... her guide dog was a bit of a pain though as it turned out to be scared of forklifts which cause some hassle when it frozen halfway across our yard! Luckily it was close to lunchtime so once everything was turned off it was back in action...


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## chippy1970 (16 Dec 2008)

OPJ":2y010fh0 said:


> wizer":2y010fh0 said:
> 
> 
> > When you say carpenter, what is it you want to do? ...are you interested in making furniture?
> ...



Are you saying one is better than the other OPJ ?

I am a "carpenter & joiner" as that is what I qualified in (City & Guilds) and have been doing for 20+ years. One week I could be pitching a roof and another I could be building built in furniture to a very high standard.

Yes I know there are some rough carpenters out there but there are also some rubbish furniture makers doing quiet well for themselves :x


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## Benchwayze (16 Dec 2008)

chippy1970":18wuvhbn said:


> OPJ":18wuvhbn said:
> 
> 
> > wizer":18wuvhbn said:
> ...



Wooden Ladders bent for me! They went missing last bonfire night. (At last! It was the tenth successive year of my leaving them outside the front of my house!)
8) 

I guess I will call you a 'woodworker' then Chippy. :idea: 

Like your sentiments.


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## chippy1970 (16 Dec 2008)

No "carpenter/joiner" will do fine


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## Benchwayze (16 Dec 2008)

So be it Chippy.. 

Looking around my roof space, I wish the builders had been more fussy about who they employed. Talk about 'rough'! 

And my roof is just 'A' frame!


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## OPJ (17 Dec 2008)

chippy1970":30o0o7kd said:


> Are you saying one is better than the other OPJ ?
> 
> I am a "carpenter & joiner" as that is what I qualified in (City & Guilds) and have been doing for 20+ years. One week I could be pitching a roof and another I could be building built in furniture to a very high standard.
> 
> Yes I know there are some rough carpenters out there but there are also some rubbish furniture makers doing quiet well for themselves :x



Sorry, no, it's not a question of one being better than the other but I like to think of two as being quite different with the levels of skill involved. I've got a C&G qualification in C&J myself. I'm training to be a Cabinet Maker right now and it frustrates me when people still refer to me as a "Carpenter" when I've made a piece of furniture! :roll: I didn't use to think there was much between the two until I went back to college last year.


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## Benchwayze (17 Dec 2008)

Olly, 
I see what you mean, but I wouldn't say there are different 'levels' of skills involved. I would rather say there are 'different' skills used. 

I.e. A carpenter wouldn't run across the need to do much veneering.
A cabinet maker wouldn't often run across the need to pitch a roof.

But I would imagine they could both saw straight, plane true and cut all of the basic joints, each as well as the other. It's only the application of the skills that are different. 

Some of the work carried out for high-profile business organisations is done in Joiners' shops and the workmanship there is the equal of anything that comes out of many cabinet-shops. 

I think there's a generalisation that carpenter/joiners work with soft wood and cabinetmakers work with hardwoods, so the latter must be more skilful. We all know that both use all kinds of timber and the skill levels are down to personal abilities rather than what each should or should not be able to do.


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## Green (17 Dec 2008)




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## Benchwayze (17 Dec 2008)

Green":3lije6yz said:


>



I recognise the blokes, but what's it mean? :?


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## Racers (17 Dec 2008)

Hi,

Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mYY1QGK ... re=related

Pete


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## Racers (17 Dec 2008)

or this is good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JSahEDR ... re=related

Pete


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## Benchwayze (17 Dec 2008)

Hmmmm.. Thanks Pete. 

The best line was the last one by Corbett. 'A pain in the neck.'

I am assuming the second one is a take of the first. 
Funnier, because of Fry, but only marginally so. 
Sorry if I seem to have no SOH, but this doesn't hit my 'funny-bone' I fear!

Cheers for the explanation tho! I suppose it does have some relevance, but I don't think I was drawing derogatory distinctions! I was agreeing with Chippy. 
:lol: .


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## Racers (17 Dec 2008)

Hi, Benchwayze

I agree with you about different skills not level of skills.

Pete


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## Benchwayze (17 Dec 2008)

Cheers Pete. It was just that I couldn't see the relevance of the 'comedy' sketch to the debate. I led a very sheltered life in those days; sheltering from the sea and the rain and the wind! So I never watched much TV. 
Watching some of the fare on the 'box' these days, I sometimes wonder if I was indeed more fortunate than I thought.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## chippy1970 (17 Dec 2008)

OPJ":2crtl0by said:


> chippy1970":2crtl0by said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying one is better than the other OPJ ?
> ...



Yeah but you are contradicting yourself you say one is not better than the other but then you say the furniture maker is at a higher skill level better in other words.

I class a Carpenter as someone who works with wood so that could be any job involving wood.

I myself could do any job with wood to a very high standard including furniture making but I wouldnt say i was a furniture maker. I am not a jack of all trades either but any good carpenter can put his or her hands to anything wood related.


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## Green (17 Dec 2008)

Benchwayze, it was a silly joke and it wasn't aimed at you.


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## spannermonkey (17 Dec 2008)

Whilst we are celebrating Xmas. Remember Jesus was a carpenter. And going by this thread, we should follow Jesus and forgive an forget our differences and live a long and Peaceful life in harmony. :lol:


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## big soft moose (18 Dec 2008)

spannermonkey":awogvw77 said:


> Whilst we are celebrating Xmas. Remember Jesus was a carpenter. And going by this thread, we should follow Jesus and forgive an forget our differences and live a long and Peaceful life in harmony. :lol:



technically he was the son of a carpenter (okay I know he was the son of god alledgedly but that aside it was joseph who was the carpenter).

jesus himself wouldnt have had much time for carpentry what with all the time spent recruiting disciples, throwing usurers out of the temple, and performing miracles. Doesn't leave a lot of time for knocking up a nice kitchen in veneer faced mdf


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## davin (18 Dec 2008)

well lets face it. That Jesus bloke,he should have been a plumber - he would have earnt a lot more


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## Doug B (18 Dec 2008)

davin":1nwmx4q9 said:


> well lets face it. That Jesus bloke,he should have been a plumber - he would have earnt a lot more



Problem there is if he`d fixed ya bog it would flush with wine!!! Not a problem, but i wouldn`t want to drink it from that bowl :lol: :lol:


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## phantom of the offcut (18 Dec 2008)

Carpenter Joiner for me too and proud of it , and i like to build furniture and boats for fun , perhaps we could settle on woodworkers after all we are but mere manual worker's so we all look up to ? (bankers perhaps?).


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## Out int shed (19 Dec 2008)

Back to the original post...... From the sounds of it you are on the FCA or ICA Wood Occupations course which is fine for learning the basics such as the 12 basic joints, bathroom cabinate, staircase etc – I did a similar course but was disappointed overall.

I found that the college training provided was far to focussed on paperwork and classroom teaching, rather than actual workshop training. 

In my humble opinion, I have found the best way into this business is to gain some basic skills through college and then practice, practice, practice and practice some more. But practice does not mean repeatedly sawing mitre cuts in the same bit of offcut.

Start a projects book - just a collection of sketches of stuff you would like to make and pick something practical. Have a crack at it with softwood first and if you like the result, copy again but in hardwood.

You will soon find that most different jobs can be completed using the same basic skills - crack those basics and your half way there.

Then its more practice, practice, practice.... you get the idea!


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