# Losing weight



## Steve Maskery (20 Jan 2017)

I'm a big bloke and have been for years. I don't like being so fat but it's difficult to imagine being otherwise, to be honest.

A few years ago I did the 5:2 diet. I lost a stone in an acceptably short time, but then I went and fell and broke my knee, meaning I sat around with a knee brace and crutches for months, put most of the weight back on and TBH, I've never really got back to walking as I did. Apparently I walk with a limp. It doesn't feel like it, it just feels a bit stiff, but I'm told that I do. I've never got rid of the weight again and it has continued to creep up to where it was before I did the 5:2.

But with various other age- and weight-related issues going on, too, I've been thinking of trying to see if I can replicate my previous success. The 5:2 did work - 5 days eat normally, 2 days consume no more than 500 calories. That is not very much. But I am a foodie, I like being in the kitchen just as much as I like being in the workshop; after all, they are very similar activities - take raw materials, use shiny sharp things to cut them up, perform various operations on them, put them together in various ways and enjoy the result. 

Woodworking and Foodworking 

But 2 days a week of fasting is not appealing. I've done it before and so I could do it again, but I can't say that I enjoyed the diet, just the results.

Last week my mate Charlie came round. He is just a few months older than I am, but much, much fitter. He goes dancing every week, as I did pre-knee, is 6" taller than I am and a couple of stone lighter. But he feels the need to lose a bit. Charlie is into "alternatives" in life and he was telling me about Keto. Keto is cutting out the carbohydrates to very low levels. Serious Ketos stay below 20g per day. Given that there are carbs in almost everything, including, for example, coffee, that is a challenge. But as well as low carbs, Keto is high fat. So butter with everything. Coconut oil with everything. The problem is that with no bread (and I do make exceeding good bread) what is there to put my butter on?

I was was not sceptical that it would work, I was just sceptical that it could be enjoyable eating. I like my bread, my pasta, my rice and potatoes. I cook chips 2 or three times a month, and they are the best chips 

Charlie told me about Cauliflower Rice (CR). Made from cauliflower, looks like rice. Dismantle a cauli, blitz the core, blitz the florets and you end up with something that looks like boiled rice. You can microwave it, pan fry it or bake it and provided that you put something in it to give it some flavour, such a cumin or fennel seeds or caraway, it does the same job on the plate as rice does, and even looks the part. So I've been having that virtually every other day.

Other dishes have been:

Bacon, egg, sausage, mushrooms (but without my beloved North Staffs Oatcakes, sadly)
Steak with mushroom and pepper sauce and lots of salad with lemon balsamic dressing
Kapuska stew (didn't look very appetising, TBH, but tasted fantastic)
Trout with bacon sprouts and CR
Smoked salmon with pak-choi and CR

I can honestly say that there is nothing I have eaten this week that I have not enjoyed, in some cases more than my usual fare. And there has been no portion-size limitations, a good plateful every time. I've never felt hungry, but there have been a few times when I have really wanted a good steak and kidney pie and chips, lasagna, pork pie all together in a sandwich 

Breakfast is the hardest. I used to have two slices of toast. Sometimes porridge and sometimes Weetabix, but usually toast. I miss my toast.

But.

After just one week of this regime, eating just as much as I did before (and on some days certainly more), never feeling hungry (wanting to eat, yes, but that's different) and enjoying it all...



... I have lost 7lb. Half a stone. Just by eating differently. My trousers feel more comfortable, I have more energy and I am sleeping better. I've not slept well for years, but I've had 6 or 8 hours straight several nights this week. No afternoon naps.

Now I know that with most diets it is easy to lose weight at the start and it becomes progressively harder so I'm not expecting this to continue forever, but whilst is continues like this I'm happy to keep it up.

Chicken and chips tonight, Keto-style!


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## sunnybob (20 Jan 2017)

I started "weight loss" late november. Loosely following my wife's slimming world regime.
My main losses, both in what I eat and how much I enjoy it, was Bread and Beer.

2 extremely large slices of home made toast covered in butter and bovril for breakfast, and a toasted pitta bread filled with salami and onions for lunch, with a half litre of beer.
Replaced by 16 weetabix mini chocolate rusks in a small amount of semi skimmed milk, and a can of beans or vegetable soup for lunch. Evening meal as normal.

Lost 1 kg a week for 4 weeks straight and did not feel hungry in the stomach, only the brain.
But then along came xmas and new year in hotels, and a week of visitors. 3 kgs back on. DOH!

Staring again tomorrow, honest.


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## AJB Temple (20 Jan 2017)

I think I may well do this too,as porkiness is taking over. Did you ditch booze and fruit juices too?


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## Steve Maskery (20 Jan 2017)

AJB Temple":1ppk3axc said:


> I think I may well do this too,as porkiness is taking over. Did you ditch booze and fruit juices too?



Not really. I drink too much. But I've not had a beer in over a week. Wine and whiskey as normal, I'm afraid.

I've had some fruit juice, but only a glass now and again, not even every day. Not much fruit. I did buy a couple of pots of grape and melon, didn't look at the sugar content, but ate them with lots of cream, so that's all right 

I've got a chocolate orange, a box of Thornton's and cake left over from Christmas and have resisted the temptation.

So far...


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## sunnybob (20 Jan 2017)

I think its a pure coincidence that reducing the red wine and vodka intake during december affected my weight. Even when increasing it over the holidays also increased the weight, I'm still not convinced. (g)


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## John15 (20 Jan 2017)

Don't eat cakes, chocolate bars and pastries. Simples!

John


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## MrDavidRoberts (20 Jan 2017)

didn't read your wall of text but,

There's no secret to losing weight, or any special diet that you must follow.
Simply eat less calories than you need and that's it. Not a rocketscience...
Exericising really doesn't burns that much calories, you need to run for like an hour to burn 500calories, or you might as well just not eat 3 donuts and you got the same effect.However once you start doing some physical activities you realize how hard its to burn calories off that way and you automaticly stop eating all the high-calorie junk food so it's still kinda win-win..

I think the easiest way is to stop eating bread/cookies and anything of that sort of stuff and the rest is easy.


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## defsdoor (20 Jan 2017)

I'm three weeks into eating no rubbish - all the "treats" you reward yourself with for sitting on your backside for too long. Nothing sugary - no biscuits, cake, sweets, chocolate or crisps. No alcohol!

So all I'm eating is the occasional breakfast of all bran or toast, weekday lunch has been salad, and dinners smaller portions but of normal variety.

As I said - 3 weeks in to in.

Haven't lost an ounce 

I do feel better though and I've not once fancied something on the banned list - this is a by product of a far far too indulgent Christmas I think.


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## BearTricks (20 Jan 2017)

I did keto for a year or so. I lost a stone in the first week as it drains your excess water weight almost instantly. I wasn't in bad shape, but I was a bit doughy so I just wanted to get the excess weight off. The way it works is that you reduce your carbohydrate levels to the point that your body starts burning fat instead. Your body burns fat much more efficiently, but if it has the carbs to burn then it burns those first and reserves the fat in case of emergency. If your body is burning enough fat then it produces ketones as a by-product, which come out in your wee. This is called ketosis.

I found that if I stayed under 100g of carbs a day, I stayed in ketosis. I measured it using strips that you wee on, but you can generally tell due to an odd smell that your wee has and a faint chemical taste in your mouth. I barely noticed the taste, but my girlfriend told me that my breath smelled like nail polish remover in the mornings before I had brushed my teeth.

The biggest issue is getting enough salt. If you haven't already you should switch to a low-sodium salt because you need that potassium. I can't readily remember how I was getting extra electrolytes but that was one route, as well as drinking the blue sugar-free poweraid. My other issue was that it was expensive, although I did supplement my food with protein shakes. If you don't get enough of your various salts, it can play havoc with the functioning of some of your organs.

I also used something called MyFitnessPal (I think that was what it was called) to track where all my calories were coming from.

It got tedious after a while, and I became (wrongly) convinced that some medical issues I was having were due to it. I will say that I stopped a few days before going on holiday where I gorged on bread and sweets. I should have eased myself back in to it. I had some pancakes with fruit one morning and spent the rest of the day doubled over in absolute agony as my stomach couldn't take it.

It is a really good way to lose weight very quickly and there are some well publicised benefits to it such as increased clarity of mind which I agree with. There's also some research to do with cancer which I think is credible, but probably disputed. The one thing that goes against it is that it isn't really sustainable for longer periods of time. It can be incredibly expensive to meet your protein requirements for the day, and it takes some effort to work out if you're getting the right amount of vitamins. If your vitamins get out of whack with it you'll have much more immediate symptoms than on a regular diet.

Edit: Just re-read through your post. There are only negligible levels of carbs in coffee, not enough to make any difference to a keto diet. In fact, most people on the keto died boost their fat by putting butter or coconut oil in their coffee instead of milk. They call it bulletproof coffee.


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## MusicMan (20 Jan 2017)

Agree with MrDavidRoberts. I successfully lost about 50 lb over about three years simply by eating less. I avoid much sugar anyway as I'm diabetic. I found that approximately halving my portions did fine and after a while I got used to that. In fact after some quite bad urinary tract infections last summer I ended up losing too much weight and had to eat hard to put a stone back on! I also lost a lot of muscle strength. I hate the gym, but about three months of working for a few hours a day in the workshop or garden - which are hobbies anyway - has restored the weight to about ideal for my age and height.

Keith


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## Steve Maskery (20 Jan 2017)

Thank you BT, that is helpful and constructive.
Yes I did know that coffee is very low in carbs, I was just making the point that few things are absolute zero. 
I have heard of bullet-proof coffee, but I didn't realise that that was what it was. Thank you. I used to drink coffee all day, but now I have just one or two mugs at breakfast-time and that is usually it for the day. (Except when Ray comes over, when the kettle never gets a chance to cool down).
I wasn't aware of the side-effects, although I'm not the least bit surprised that there are some, and as I say, I don't plan on doing this for ever. I do have a short-term target, which I see no problem in reaching now. After that, I'll have to see how hard it has become to keep going.


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## Keithie (20 Jan 2017)

I had a kidney transplant a few years back...since when I've learned about lots of stuff that can damage kidneys (so I dont mess up the new one I have). Diets can do all kinds of stuff to folk...and diff folk can react in diff ways to all sorts of things.

This link talks about stuuf in relation to 'keto' diets

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3945587/

I'm not a doc and if you were thinking of a special diet it might, for some folk, be best to check with a doc in case there's some bizarre reason why that particular form of diet might not be right for you!

Since I turned 50 weight management is a right pain ..basically nothing works for me in practice due to me having the mental strength of a jelly ...lol


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## MrDavidRoberts (20 Jan 2017)

Sir, I think you are focusing too much on some magic bullet solution - There is none!
Eating sliced packaged fruit... WHY? Most of the time they are already spoiled.. Just buy the regular fruit and slice it up when needed.
Get the regular vegetables, not already sliced/prepered stuff which has stood for God knows how long already, People are just so lazy that they can't peel their own carrots anymore, 

Also what's bullet-proof coffee? Again.. Stop focusing on some stupid fads/ superfoods or some fancy packagings which says how good they are.. I have even heard people on diet eating weight-watchers low-fat cookies and thinking they are doing a good job... Oh lawd.. why?


As long as your calories in are less than your calories out= you will lose weight!
That's it!
You could eat 1500 calories worth of cookies per day and still loose weight if you eat nothing else, but how much is 1500calories in cookies? Not a lot by weight and not much minerals/good stuff gained by eating them as well.

Stop focusing on the stupid fads and eat normal regular healthy food, and start to cook more yourself and that's it!


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## iNewbie (20 Jan 2017)

Personal opinion: Diets are a short stop-off to gaining weight. That is, unless you make a complete change to your eating habits and stick to it, *for life*. Sure people lose weight on a diet, but once they go back to their old habits they put it back on,.....with extra!! I speak from my own experience and I'm not what you'd consider overweight. I just have a sweet tooth...

As David Roberts said: _There's no secret to losing weight, or any special diet that you must follow.
Simply eat less calories than you need and that's it. Not a rocketscience..._

It really is that simple. Most people know it but don't adhere to it. 

I walk everyday and find walking up an incline until my heart rate increases, to then walk back down so it decreases and then do this in repetition helps me lose weight. No diet, just watch the amount going in and stay off the rubbish and do some form of exercise for health and mental health wellbeing.


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## Steve Maskery (20 Jan 2017)

David, what you say is 100% accurate and 100% unhelpful.

Have you ever had a weight problem? Have you ever had to shift the stuff yourself? Or are you just an expert in the same way that I am an expert in parenting? I know exactly how other people should bring up their children.

I don't buy, and never have bought, prepared veg. There are no pop-and-ping meals in my freezer. Everything is freshly prepared, cooked from scratch. I enjoy it. I often think I should have been a chef.

Cooking for one is much more difficult than cooking for two, which in turn is harder than cooking for a family.

I bought the grape/ melon pot, because it was offer and quite cheap. If I bought a whole melon and a whole punnet of grapes I would be eating it for days. I've never bought it before and probably won't again unless it is as cheap again.

As to cooking more myself, I know no man who does more cooking than I do. You know nothing about me.

And I don't eat rubbish. I rarely buy chocolate and biscuits, I do sometimes buy a bag of Midget Gems or Liquorice Allsorts. They sit in the car and go sticky. I don't drive much. They have gone, now, anyway. I bake a cake occasionally, eat some but usually give most of it away.

If losing weight was easy we would not have an obesity problem. I was just sharing my present journey in the hope that someone else, with a January resolution, would find it interesting and helpful. Clearly in your case I was wrong. You are just being glib without being constructive.


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## Steve Maskery (20 Jan 2017)

Keithie":3uochehh said:


> basically nothing works for me in practice due to me having the mental strength of a jelly ...lol



Well that's OK, provided it is sugar-free jelly!


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## MrDavidRoberts (20 Jan 2017)

Well than it's all good, at first you sounded like a person who does all those things 
Yes I was near 260lbs once myself. You are getting a bit annoyed that I mentioned those thngs, aren't you? That tells me there's clearly a problem you don't want to admit yourself...

Perhaps make a list of what exactly you are eating/how much and find out the cause.. I can bet however much £ you want that you don't have any genetic problem or whatever of that sorts.
It's all about calories in vs Calories out, that's all. Oh and a willpower to actually make yourself a better man.
Get kitchen scales, if you don't have already and start counting the calories, that's all one could suggest.
No Magic or special solution Sir, just willpower!


Ok I just actualy checked your First post, and you are not even asking for things I'm saying.
Failure on my side...


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## iNewbie (20 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":2l8met2x said:


> And I don't eat rubbish. I rarely buy chocolate and biscuits, I do sometimes buy a bag of Midget Gems or Liquorice Allsorts. They sit in the car and go sticky. I don't drive much. They have gone, now, anyway. I bake a cake occasionally, eat some but usually give most of it away.
> 
> If losing weight was easy we would not have an obesity problem.



Steve, rubbish can be anything thats going to have lots of calories that people know is destroying their wish to lose weight. Beer & Wine/Spirits all increase calorie intake. Its rubbish. 

As for obesity, losing weight can be easy, but most people _choose _to keep shovelling rubbish into themselves knowing it won't help their issue. Its self-defeating.

I'm sympathetic to peoples issues, but a lot of people just make excuses - we all do it. You can't help people who won't help themselves, though.


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## iNewbie (20 Jan 2017)

MrDavidRoberts":2dkzx4mm said:


> Well than it's all good, at first you sounded like a person who does all those things
> Yes I was near 260lbs once myself. You are getting a bit annoyed that I mentioned those thngs, aren't you? That tells me there's clearly a problem you don't want to admit yourself...
> 
> Perhaps make a list of what exactly you are eating/how much and find out the cause.. I can bet however much £ you want that you don't have any genetic problem or whatever of that sorts.
> ...



Willpower is ok as long as the winds behind your sail. When that windy willpower drops people go overboard... 

Basically you have to make a life altering (Goal) decision and stick with it through thick & thin.


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## Keithie (20 Jan 2017)

Well, the good news is that you can make a huge lifestyle change that will help keep weight under control (pretty much all thatcanbe hoped for imo) and improve your overall quality oflife for £50 (fifty quid). Its exactly what I did. and it works.

So what is this magic item for only £50?

Its a donation to dog rescue, in exchange for which you get a dog. 

If our dog isnt walked twice a day for at least an hour at a time, if not mire, she is such a pain that it takes no will power at all to walk her...life just isnt worth the stress of her going ape for not being walked.

So an hour a day or more, every day, rain or shine, no matter how you feel.no willpower required (just a wife who wont do both walks with the dog!) and you get a decade or more of enforced positive lifestyle change. Simple.


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## BearTricks (20 Jan 2017)

I completely agree with David that losing weight is a simple case of calories in vs calories out. Having been on the keto diet successfully, however, I can tell you that it works like nothing else. I was doing it strictly, calculating my portions every day, and I found it incredibly difficult to eat my requisite amount of calories for the day. 

The difference is that ketosis negates a need for exercise by burning your existing fat, whereas in a regular diet the body stores the fat and expects you to burn the sugars you're getting from carbohydrates. I lost three stone while I was on it. Subsequently I have put two of those stones back on. 

Interestingly, my cousin has severe epilepsy and a ketogenic diet is one of the only things that reliably controls her fits.

As I said earlier it is also completely unsustainable in the modern world. I was making decent money at the time and could afford it, but at the moment the amount of meat I was buying would destroy my bank account.


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## finneyb (20 Jan 2017)

Top 10 popular diets reviewed http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/loseweight/P ... eview.aspx

Hope that helps

Brian


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## Skeety (20 Jan 2017)

Good luck Steve!!

It's all about finding out what works for you, what you like, what you don't.

Over the years I have probably tried most of the main diets out there. Always lost weight but then put it back on.

About 7 years ago I was at my peak weight (37 Stone) many reasons but not gluttony, just very long hours and had really bad eating habits. I started by reducing my portions very slowly, didn't really cut much out but went from having it 3 times a week to twice then once whilst adding new dishes and learning to cook much better.

I agree with you that cooking for 1 is a PITA, I started cooking for 2 or 4 and freezing the spare portions.

I'm no expert whatsoever but am now not far off my ideal weight of 19 Stone (i'm 6' 5"), still got about 3\4 of a Stone to lose but due to the amount of muscle I have now due to doing a lot more physical stuff I'm happy.

Slowly slowly catchy monkey  Good luck!

Jon.


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## Benchwayze (20 Jan 2017)

Steve. 

I am losing weight steadily, without fasting and without counting calories. 
Although I think fasting is a good idea if you are worried about too much protein/fat. I should mention that I do have days when I just don't feel like eating at all, and I subsist on water and maybe a few raw nuts. 

Anyone who wants to know more could Google the 'Diet Doctor' and study, and see what they think. 

That's all I will say, because the last time I mentioned this on the forum I was told by a 'conventional-wisdom' nutritionist that I was making myself look foolish, even stupid. He even half-convinced me I was wrong, so I lapsed. But I am back at it again and with success (Two stones in three months) . I hope you too don't encounter hostility from 'health professionals' 

Finally, a quotation I like :

Mankind is the only animal smart enough to actually make food, and stupid enough to eat it! 
When I say 'make food' I don't mean cooking it. That is producing a dish. I mean making the food itself; e.g. Bread! 

Looks like you are on a similar track to me though!

Cheers

John


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## Doug71 (20 Jan 2017)

Try the 16:8 diet, had never heard of it till two weeks ago but realised I have done it for years without realising and never had any weight issues.

Basically you fast for 16hrs a day (your asleep for 8 of these) and eat normally for 8 hrs. Seems like I only ever have time for coffee at breakfast so my first meal is lunch at 12ish, have a snack later on then main meal at 8 pm.

Theory is something like if you eat every 2-3hrs then your body never gets round to using the stored fat.

Google it, apparently it's what Hugh Jackman does and he's not in bad shape.


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## beech1948 (21 Jan 2017)

Interesting thread.

I'm 68 yrs old and a type 2 diabetic. Fat/weight caused that.

19 months ago I weighed 123Kg and my ideal weight would be about 80 Kg

Physically I'm OK. Still quite strong, agile, flexible but obviously thats tapering off as I age.

I lost 24.6 Kg as of December 2016.

My method was to ignore diets. Ugh!!

I cut out as much carbohydrates as possible....bread/biscuits/cake ( well only 80% of cake) etc etc

I do not buy any processed foods at all unless they have unless it has less than 7% sugar to 100g of food. Tough to find

We cook everything from scratch ( except the odd fish and chips).

Its one of those adapt to survive things and I intend to be harassing my kids for some time to come.

Portions are 30% less than 19 months ago and I drink maybe a bottle of wine a week.

I walk 5 miles a day. Now takes me about 65 minutes.
I ride my bike over the same 5 miles daily takes less than 30 minutes
I lift weights every other day and perform some pilates exercises
I stretch like a pro athlete every day. 

So no diet just focus and letting the right things become a habit ( Believe - Behave - Become ). Target for end of year is 80Kg or less and hopefully just possibly a return to no diabetes or maybe very little diabetic problems.

Given that my weight is now below 100Kg next Monday morning at 6 am rain or shine I will recommence running. Start with walk 200 yds run 200 yds and go from there.

Marathons next year. Ha!

Given I was depressive, lacking in purpose and generally down some 19 months ago focussing on this helped dramatically. Exercise helps dramatically as well but it does not need to be a full on gym experience. I walk the streets, cycle the streets and use some cheap to buy weights and bars.

Diets are just repressive.


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## Cheshirechappie (21 Jan 2017)

"Diets are just repressive" - absolutely! I agree with that almost 100%, the slight qualification being that there are some medical conditions that do require care with diet.

I've come to the conclusion that most of the talk about diets is counter-productive at best, and downright baloney at worst. I've seen too many people stick rigidly to various diet regimes, come down to their target weight, rejoice mightily - and then pile on the weight again.

Much better to think about eating well. All the time. Lots of fresh fruit and vegetables (especially green vegetables), a bit of meat, a bit of fish, natural fats like olive oil and butter rather than artificial ones like margarine, plenty of water (tea and coffee are OK), and gradually eliminate the bad stuff like packet dinners and microwave meals. Then a little bit of what you fancy does you good - but aim for 'occasional treat' rather than three times a week. Don't just cut things out suddenly, cut down slowly. Don't suddenly change diet, but gradually move towards better. Your body will tell you if you're going the right way.

Sounds as if you enjoy cooking, and don't do junk food - that's a huge plus! I'd agree that cooking for one can be a bit troublesome, but agree with the point made above about cooking a dish and saving two or three portions for later days (which also gives you extra time for other things on those days, which is a nice bonus). The best 'cooking for one' recipe book I know of is Delia Smith's 'One is Fun' - great variety of recipes, and they work!

The very best 'diet' advice I've ever heard is to eat real food (not man-made stuff), mostly - though not exclusively - plants, and not too much. It really is that simple - but getting there can take some time.


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## DennisCA (21 Jan 2017)

MrDavidRoberts":3bqgrh7h said:


> didn't read your wall of text but,
> 
> There's no secret to losing weight, or any special diet that you must follow.
> Simply eat less calories than you need and that's it. Not a rocketscience...
> ...



A lot of these diets, what they really end up doing is making you take more care of what you eat and end up reducing your total calorie intake. All these diets like LCHF or whatever, people tend to ascribe secret mechanisms to them and make up all kinds of things about insulin causing fat and whatnot that just isn't true. In the end it's all just that these diets when studied, are found to reduce total calorie intake. And that's why they work. As long as you are able to follow them.

I've been on the LCHF diet, which is like keto, and I dropped a lot of kilos. I couldn't live without bread or carbs in the long run though, and I've put weight back on, and then back off. I tend to swing between 80-90 kilos and it's a good weight for me (188cm). I used to be 98kg in my late teens, then I went into the military (conscription) and was down to 79kg in 6 months, despite a heavy calorie diet. All that marching in the woods with heavy loads. Never gone back up to that weight fortunately.


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## skipdiver (21 Jan 2017)

Having been on the fad diets and yo-yo weight treadmill, i took the long term view in Sept 15 to change my habits, in both eating and exercise. I have lost three stone in that time and am much more mobile than i was. I had plantar fasciitis (heel pain) and lower back and hip pain all the time. I now have none of that and walk every day, usually 5 miles but sometimes due to being busy, i just spend all day working in the workshop instead. As long as you are moving you are burning calories, with the added benefit that you are not constantly eating snacks because your mind is focused elsewhere. Basically, eat less and move more. It's not complicated.


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## monkeybiter (21 Jan 2017)

The fact that I had become permanently fat was something that I accepted as a consequence of 'good living', and it didn't bother me too much. Then the type 2 diagnosis focussed my attention on my current position on my personal timeline, potentially 30% had just been knocked off my time left. I've been generally happy for the last 20yrs, but not much for the 30 before that. The idea that there's only 10-15 useful years left is quite sobering, so [after that confessional ramble] my decision to lose weight and gain fitness is was serious and important.
I once heard someone tell an anecdote about waiting in an airport and going for a burger for 'recreational eating'. I think this phrase describes a general problem society has today, food's cheap and it presses enough buttons to be a pleasurable experience. Eating for entertainment and/or pleasure will make you liable to get fat, but we all want a bit of extra comfort. 
Because I enjoy the pleasure of nice textures and flavours of food my tendency was to get as much on my plate as possible, and of course you have to clear your plate. 
But I have proven to myself that any hunger disappears very quickly, so I have simply reduced my portions, and it has worked, blood sugar is good, cholesterol is good, mobility is better. Last year I lost just over two stones, although I did then pile a stone back on on an indulgent holiday, but I know that's temporary and acceptable.
Sorry for the 'wall of text' :wink:


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## Jacob (21 Jan 2017)

It's easy. Eat less. Especially sugary and fatty things. Aim at 50%. 
Doesn't mean you have to substitute weird garbage, quite the opposite - treat yourself to nice stuff ; instead of a 1lb cheap steak you have 1/2lb of the very best, and so on.
We have fish n chips every Friday - one normal portion is enough for two - it fills two plates.
Pub meals are always huge - we share one between us. It means you can have starter and pudding too, but half portions.
And so on.


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## monkeybiter (21 Jan 2017)

Splitting portions between a couple sounds like a good idea, I'll try to give it a try [if you know what I mean]. Your first sentence is incorrect though, it's not easy. Choosing less is not automatic for many people, you have to remember to go against your first instinct every time.


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## Benchwayze (21 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":1y297hfn said:


> I've seen too many people stick rigidly to various diet regimes, come down to their target weight, rejoice mightily - and then pile on the weight again.
> 
> 
> The very best 'diet' advice I've ever heard is to eat real food (not man-made stuff), mostly - though not exclusively - plants, and not too much. It really is that simple - but getting there can take some time.



CC, 

Absolutely! 
Don't 'go on a diet'. Change your mindset and choose a new way of eating instead. Looking at it like that I see it as a lifestyle choice. I wonder how many more years I have! 

Cheers. 

John


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## MusicMan (21 Jan 2017)

It usually takes about three weeks to break a habit or start a new one, unless there is an addiction involved. So after about a month it will become easy, though agreed it is not at first. But a month isn't very long, really.


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## Jacob (21 Jan 2017)

monkeybiter":cahcg8p1 said:


> Splitting portions between a couple sounds like a good idea, I'll try to give it a try [if you know what I mean]. Your first sentence is incorrect though, it's not easy. Choosing less is not automatic for many people, you have to remember to go against your first instinct every time.


It's a lot easier than giving up smoking! 
One trick is to welcome the stress and not let it control you - if you feel hungry remind yourself that this means that you are losing weight, you aren't going to die and your next little snack will be along in good time!


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## monkeybiter (21 Jan 2017)

Jacob":z7rvg5ts said:


> It's a lot easier than giving up smoking!
> One trick is to welcome the stress and not let it control you - if you feel hungry remind yourself that this means that you are losing weight, you aren't going to die and your next little snack will be along in good time!



I fully agree with both points, I witnessed my wife struggling to give up smoking, three attempts before success.
My attitude is 'embrace the hunger', that's when I know I'm losing weight. However this year I need to incorporate exercise as well, I've lost an awful lot of strength and motivation which becomes a bit of a vicious circle, the worse it gets the worse it gets.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jan 2017)

Mike, that is all good, thank you.
I'm not diabetic, as far as I know, but the doc wants me to have a GTT, I'm not far off, I think.

Personally I'm not at all afraid of dying. I have no family of my own and I most certainly don't want the long slow miserable death that my dad had and my mum is having. No way. I'd rather jump, TBH. It's not that I have a death wish, I don't at the mo, but if the Grim Reaper comes after me tomorrow, I won't fight him off.

Trying to lose weight is not trying to extend my life, but for as long as I have to live it, I'd rather it was as good as it can be.


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## Jacob (21 Jan 2017)

Exercise helps a lot. First cos it's nice to get out there in the fresh air - don't think I've ever regretted forcing myself off the settee and getting on me bike - if the weather is really rubbish you just cut it short and come back to a warm fire and a shower. Second cos it gives you a good reason for losing a bit of weight - what's the point of pedalling up Cromford Hill carrying 2 stones of fat?
hmm haven't been out much lately must try harder.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jan 2017)

I used to walk 7-10 miles every Sunday until I did my knee in but since then walks have been shorter and a lot less often.


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## Jacob (21 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":36bzqaex said:


> I used to walk 7-10 miles every Sunday until I did my knee in but since then walks have been shorter and a lot less often.


Bicycle? I know a one legged cyclist who gets out a lot.
Bike can be more gentle than walking - no impact or stretching and gears to take off the pressure.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jan 2017)

I do have a bicycle, but I've not ridden properly since I was a teenager. I was given this. It is a mountain bike and has huge tyres. I really need to swap them for something more sensible. The few times I have taken it out I have felt very vulnerable indeed.


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## Lons (21 Jan 2017)

Or play golf. A 5 mile walk unless you hit the ball very straight and a lot of arm, leg and shoulder exercise.. Twice a week helps keep me fit, still fat though #-o


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## Jacob (21 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":3h4217ty said:


> I do have a bicycle, but I've not ridden properly since I was a teenager. I was given this. It is a mountain bike and has huge tyres. I really need to swap them for something more sensible. The few times I have taken it out I have felt very vulnerable indeed.


Drive out to a trail http://www.sustrans.org.uk/ncn/map?gcli ... 0wodCoAHew


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## skipdiver (21 Jan 2017)

Cycling and swimming are really excellent exercises for the larger person looking to lose some weight. Your mass is supported by something else and cycling especially, burns a lot of calories. I used to be a cycle tourer in my younger years and would set off with pannier bags and tent/clothes for 2 or 3 weeks at a time. Cycled all over the country for hundreds of miles and that has given me a core fitness level that even today in my late 50's and carrying too many pounds, is standing me in good stead. It was when i semi retired at 55 and spent a few months of not doing much at all but catching up on all the books and films i had wanted to get through that my weight started to go up very rapidly and the problems started. My doctor was very blunt with me and said basically, you are very fat and need to lose weight. Most of your problems will go away if you do this and she was correct. I used to have Border Collies too and they keep you on your toes but losing the last one broke my heart as i loved that dog to bits. He was very clever and wouldn't let me sit down for a minute. Would bring the lead to me, drop it at my feet and just stare at me intently, then down at the lead, then back at me again. When i finally get over losing him, i'll think about getting another. I live by the coast, so beach walks with the dog in all weathers is highly recommended if you have room in your life for a furry friend. If so, try to give a rescue dog a home if possible. Something my Doctor told me to do was look up on the internet the effects that just sitting around has on the body. Use it or lose it is the upshot of what i read. I spent many years working hard and when i stopped and did nothing for a while, the effects were rapid and devastating. Diet and exercise go hand in hand and compliment each other. While you are busy doing something, you are not eating surplus food, so double the effects.


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## monkeybiter (21 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":1dc5tor6 said:


> Mike, that is all good, thank you.
> I'm not diabetic, as far as I know, but the doc wants me to have a GTT, I'm not far off, I think.
> 
> Personally I'm not at all afraid of dying. I have no family of my own and I most certainly don't want the long slow miserable death that my dad had and my mum is having. No way. I'd rather jump, TBH. It's not that I have a death wish, I don't at the mo, but if the Grim Reaper comes after me tomorrow, I won't fight him off.
> ...



Sorry Steve, my cathartic ramble didn't really get to the point I'd intended, the diabetes is incidental really, just my trigger;
Re. your progress etc. you will hear that the first 10% is quick and easy to lose, that agrees with my experience. After the 10% is gone the progress is slower and testing.
I've also found that [look away kids] I have a rather capacious bowel. When binging on holiday I can easily put half a stone on in a week, but when I return to sensible portions I can loose it again just as easily and quickly. I think that if you're putting in at one end faster than your body would prefer to remove it you end up loading your bowel, giving you more weight to carry and your gut a longer opportunity to extract fats etc. that you don't need.
Maybe that's why so many people are full of it!


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## Halo Jones (23 Jan 2017)

You are doing the right thing starting Steve and good luck with it. I have been struggling for 4 or 5 years to hit my target weight I keep losing 5 or 6 kilos over 3 months or so and then end up slowly gaining most of it back. I've never gone back to my peak weight but never achieved my goals. After doing some research it turns out that you really have to reach and maintain your target weight for about a year before you have a good chance of maintaining it. Apparently it takes this long for all your bodies hormones to readjust to the "new you" otherwise it really wants to get back to what it senses as normal and stops thinking you are trying to starve it (which you are!).

Best of luck!


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## bugbear (23 Jan 2017)

Evolution has made us to want food pretty much all the time, and to eat it and store it (as fat) against times of low food supply.

Since those times don't come anymore for most of us, we have a problem, and we are fighting our own biology. It's certainly not easy.

The science of calories in versus calories out is simple; what is most certainly not simple is finding a diet (in the general sense) that is both reasonable to implement in the long term (so easy to remember, affordable, doesn't require radically different food from those around you), and you can tolerate in the long term.

Such a diet is likely to be a very personal. choice, reflecting your own unique circumstances.

BugBear


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## Cheshirechappie (23 Jan 2017)

bugbear":2w6eow4a said:


> Evolution has made us to want food pretty much all the time, and to eat it and store it (as fat) against times of low food supply.
> 
> Since those times don't come anymore for most of us, we have a problem, and we are fighting our own biology. It's certainly not easy.
> 
> ...



Agreed. (No - not 'a greed' - agreed!)

I think there are several other factors, too. 

The first is central heating; we use less energy just staying warm than our ancestors did at some times of the year.

Another is the rise of the 'food industry', producing lots of goodies stuffed with the things our bodies crave because they're rare in nature, like sugar. (They're also stuffed with artificial fats and E-numbers, giving rise to other problems.) 

The next is the mixed messages from the likes of the FSA and other health nannies about what we should and shouldn't eat, and how often. It's now all so confusing (is chocolate OK in moderation or not?), and confused ('don't eat burnt toast' being the latest scare - despite there being no scientific evidence that it's damaging to humans, apparently), so most of us are not sure when they're giving good, supportable advice, or just scare-mongering. It also seems that their response is sometimes a bit dictatorial (tax sugary drinks) rather than informative (sugary drinks are best avoided, or at worst consumed in moderation).

I do wish the health authorities would just stick to a fairly simple, clear message about what constitutes a good, wholesome, balanced diet, and the consequences of departing from it, then leave us to make our own minds up about how we choose to live our lives.


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## Steve Maskery (23 Jan 2017)

Thank you to those of you who have contributed so constructively.

I had a bit of a disappointing glitch over the weekend, but back on track this morning. I've lost 8lb in 14 days, 11 of them on this diet.

Just had ribs with swede oven chips (a bit overdone, if I'm honest), pak choi and a VERY punchy, even for me, BBQ sauce. My mouth is on fire and I feel as if I've eaten a proper dinner. The ribs were excellent.

I've tried oven-chipping both celeriac and swede. For both the flavour is good (not the same, but still good), but they just don't have the same crunch and fluff as proper potato chips.

I have plenty of BBQ sauce left over. I think I might freeze it in an ice-cube tray, that way I can take out just a bit to give any tomato-based dish, like ragu, a bit of a kick.


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## Jacob (23 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":2bq4bxp5 said:


> .......
> The next is the mixed messages from the likes of the FSA and other health nannies about what we should and shouldn't eat, and how often. It's now all so confusing (is chocolate OK in moderation or not?), and confused ('don't eat burnt toast' being the latest scare - despite there being no scientific evidence that it's damaging to humans, apparently), so most of us are not sure when they're giving good, supportable advice, or just scare-mongering. It also seems that their response is sometimes a bit dictatorial (tax sugary drinks) rather than informative (sugary drinks are best avoided, or at worst consumed in moderation).
> 
> I do wish the health authorities would just stick to a fairly simple, clear message about what constitutes a good, wholesome, balanced diet, and the consequences of departing from it, then leave us to make our own minds up about how we choose to live our lives.


They do give a fairly simple clear message - everybody nowadays knows what constitutes a healthy diet and I'm sure you do too. 
They don't "scaremonger" - what would be the point of that, but they do have a duty to pass on details of research such as the toast thing - which isn't news anyway it's been known about for a long time.
They aren't sufficiently dictatorial about sugar - it's now seen as the biggest modern dietary problem in the world, cause of obesity, diabetes, rotten teeth, and a host of other things. Google it you may be surprised!
Chocolate is OK in moderation but not excess (google it) except for the sugar which is really bad, and the use of palm oil which is a health hazard and a major environmental problem. The problem is that sugar, chocolate, palm oil, feature often together in cakes, confectionary, puddings, biscuits etc but anybody wanting to lose weight wouldn't touch these with a barge pole. A very occasional treat would be OK but in fact if you stop using sugar a lot of stuff ends up tasting sickly sweet.


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## doctor Bob (23 Jan 2017)

There is no such thing as an easy diet.

The best way I have found is forced moderation and exercise. 

What the world seems to have forgotten these days is it really is OK to be hungry. 
A very simple diet is to only eat in an 8hr window each day e.g. 8am - 4pm or 11am - 7pm.


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## iNewbie (23 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":2kcjjioh said:


> I had a bit of a disappointing glitch over the weekend, but back on track this morning.* I've lost 8lb in 14 days, 11 of them on this diet.*
> *
> Just had ribs *with swede oven chips (a bit overdone, if I'm honest), pak choi and a VERY punchy, even for me, BBQ sauce. My mouth is on fire and I feel as if I've eaten a proper dinner. *The ribs were excellent.*



Sounds like you're on the eating yourself to death diet!


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## Cheshirechappie (23 Jan 2017)

Jacob":1ihe4hk9 said:


> Cheshirechappie":1ihe4hk9 said:
> 
> 
> > .......
> ...



Turned on Radio 4 this morning, to hear that the Food Standards Agency is advising people that well-done starchy foods such as toast, roast potatoes and crisps could cause cancer, because the blackening contains a chemical caused acrylamide. Reading the Telegraph later, it seems that the acrylamide is dangerous to mice if fed in large quantities, but there is no scientific evidence that it's dangerous to humans, especially if consumed in 'normal' quantities. Either someone at the FSA has jumped the gun, or it's an over-reaction bordering on scare-mongering. Quite a few people have already criticised the FSA for their approach to this - and it's certainly not the first time.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... rreaction/

The FSA needs to calm down, look at the evidence carefully, and stop being scaremongering, dictatorial nannies. Otherwise, increasing numbers of us are just going to ignore (or deride) their pronouncements. It's for individuals to determine how they live their lives, not government agencies.


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## timbo614 (23 Jan 2017)

> It's easier than giving up smoking. 

I really hope so, 'coz when I get over smoking I'm going to have to lose the weight I'm putting on giving it up! Boredom/finger fiddling eating is a big problem.

Four months over of "cold turkey" without a cigarette after nearly 50 years as a 20/30/40 a day smoker. I actually think I was temporarily insane at about the 3 to 4 week mark. That has passed but it still ain't easy (yet).


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## Jacob (23 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":2nrgr8gk said:


> .....
> The FSA needs to calm down, look at the evidence carefully, and stop being scaremongering, dictatorial nannies. Otherwise, increasing numbers of us are just going to ignore (or deride) their pronouncements. It's for individuals to determine how they live their lives, not government agencies.


You still smoking then!
It's only Daily Mail/Express readers who get scared and need to calm down!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI


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## Jacob (23 Jan 2017)

timbo614":2ardsz6i said:


> ....
> Four months over of "cold turkey" without a cigarette after nearly 50 years as a 20/30/40 a day smoker. I actually think I was temporarily insane at about the 3 to 4 week mark. That has passed but it still ain't easy (yet).


It does get easier but it took me a long time. Don't miss it at all now except the odd pang - jealous of those little gangs of ill looking people hanging around coughing and smoking outside offices etc, which is bloody insane you just have to look at the poor sods!


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Jan 2017)

Jacob":1mkyyqs4 said:


> Cheshirechappie":1mkyyqs4 said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...



I've never smoked. Not a good idea if you're asthmatic. If others choose to, that's their business entirely.

The FSA are going further with their war on well-done chips and roast potatoes. Now they're going to start prosecuting pubs and restaurants for serving well-done food. Understandably, the catering industry isn't too impressed, given the lack of scientific evidence to support the FSA's assertions, and hopes the FSA won't adopt a 'chip-fat controller' approach.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... ants-will/

It does seem to me that the FSA are rather over-reacting, here. They are in danger of making themselves look a little over zealous and slightly foolish.


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## bugbear (24 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":1z0d9nfq said:


> It does seem to me that the FSA are rather over-reacting, here. They are in danger of making themselves look a little over zealous and slightly foolish.



Agreed - Cancer UK and the corresponding USA charity both disagree with them.

BugBear


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## Steve Maskery (24 Jan 2017)

I don't understand why this is suddenly in the news. I heard about it at least ten years ago, on a cookery course. Same for using extra-virgin olive oil for high-temperature frying (though why anyone would want to beats me).


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## Lons (24 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":3jfgfbdo said:


> I don't understand why this is suddenly in the news. I heard about it at least ten years ago, on a cookery course. Same for using extra-virgin olive oil for high-temperature frying (though why anyone would want to beats me).


because we're all sick to death of hearing about Trump and the media are short of "news".

It was all over our local radio station yesterday, interviewing experts, you name it. definitely an over reaction. :roll:


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## novocaine (24 Jan 2017)

funny, I see the whole burnt toast thing as a diversion tactic, which means our government is about to do something really silly and they want to hide it behind a daft story like this. 

Steve, losing weight is great, but you can still be skinny and unfit, a bit of exercise won't help with weight lose (as previously stated) but can do wonders for your health, even walking a bit more will help. 

good luck with it, be warned though, once you can see your feet you'll never be able to stop seeing them.


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## Jacob (24 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":2lyfapbw said:


> ..
> 
> I've never smoked. Not a good idea if you're asthmatic. If others choose to, that's their business entirely.


No, it's all our business - other peoples' illness and death affects us in various ways - not least the burden on the NHS. This is why the state's various intrusions into our personal liberty to do stupid things, is generally a good thing


> The FSA are going further with their war on well-done chips and roast potatoes. Now they're going to start prosecuting pubs and restaurants for serving well-done food. Understandably, the catering industry isn't too impressed, given the lack of scientific evidence to support the FSA's assertions, and hopes the FSA won't adopt a 'chip-fat controller' approach.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01 ... ants-will/
> 
> It does seem to me that the FSA are rather over-reacting, here. They are in danger of making themselves look a little over zealous and slightly foolish.


No it's the telegraph exaggerating wildly. You shouldn't read rubbish papers like that if you can't read between the lines - you will end up confused and agitated.


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## DennisCA (24 Jan 2017)

Cheshirechappie":fbomm11y said:


> Jacob":fbomm11y said:
> 
> 
> > Cheshirechappie":fbomm11y said:
> ...



I dunno who the FSA is but I think the Mass media reporting of stuff like this often makes them a lot like the fake news sites. Like the milk thing a while ago, totally overblown and still not as clear cut as they like to make it out as either.... It's always written by some journalist ignorant of the scientific method and the subject he writes about and is mainly done for attracting attention.

I never bother with whatever the latest scare is anymore, I usually check this swedish skeptics blog instead to see what he has to say since he approaches everything empirically and cites sources galore and knows the differences between epidemiological and interventional studies.


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## Woodchips2 (24 Jan 2017)

My concern about a new type of diet that is a major change from your normal one is the hidden downsides to your health when the whole purpose of the diet is to improve your health and wellbeing.

I have found a very easy and cheap way to diet that works for me. Before I serve up a meal I drink a glass of water which makes me want to eat a much smaller portion plus it ups my fluid intake and keeps my digestive system working better.

Regards Keith


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## thick_mike (24 Jan 2017)

I've always been skinny, but Christmas 2015 (at age 48)I had put weight on so I was 1/4 lb short of 14stone. I'm 6'1", so I wasn't huge, but considerably heavier than I had been historically and my BMI was just "overweight".

I bought a Fitbit and started logging my steps, calories burned and calorific intake. I aimed for a calorie deficit each day (which often involved walking laps of the village after dark). I tried to cut down on carbs, which was difficult for me as I like making my own bread, and eat a higher protein diet, again difficult being vegetarian. I found converting my weight into kg made it less emotional and I managed to go from 86kg to 75 kg in five months. I found eating nuts and omelettes really took the edge off my hunger and helped me avoid snacking.

I decided I felt a bit too lean at 75kg so I've tried to keep it at 78kg and I've stayed there since. I feel much fitter, and my new weight feels natural now.


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## skipdiver (24 Jan 2017)

I found this to be an interesting article as some say that BMI is not the best way to measure obesity. Rugby players for instance would be classed as having a BMI that is too high, yet they are fit as fiddles mostly.

I am now aiming for what this article recommends and am getting there slowly. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... tists.html

I'm 5'9" so aiming for 34"


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Jan 2017)

Something that is worth bearing in mind is that a 'diet' (in the broadest sense) is much easier to stick to if eating is fun. For example, most supermarkets stock several different varieties of apple; in the autumn, it's also fun to look out for and try other varieties. My favourites are Cox's Orange Pippin, but I've had about ten different ones from Sainsbury's and M&S (Tentation are good if you find them - I think they're a fairly new commercial variety, and the ones I had came from Herefordshire).

Eating things in season is fun too. The 25th is Burns night, so it's haggis season again - yay! Then in a couple of months, we'll be thinking about asparagus, and the first salad crops, then the first strawberries. They're all cheaper and tastier in season, and when they finish, you move on to something else and then by next year you're looking forward to them again.

It being winter at present, I'm on soups quite a bit. Pea and bacon, winter vegetable (lots of carrot for extra sweetness) and curried parsnip go down well, especially home made and extra thick. A nice bowl of steaming soup and a warmed bread roll - just the thing to inprove morale on a dark, rainy January evening.

It takes a while to get into the mindset, but when you do, food becomes something to really enjoy, and in just enough quantity to be satisfying without being to excess. I think everyone has to find their own foody pleasures, though - but it's fun experimenting!


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## skipdiver (24 Jan 2017)

With you on the soups, leek and potato is lovely and very filling, also butternut squash and sweet potato is very nice. Celery soup is surprisingly good as i am not a big fan of celery. 

As for haggis, it's just offal. (pun intended)


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## Mr_P (24 Jan 2017)

Looked into my BMI today the range it gave me was a bit of joke.

10st 4lb - 13st 14lb

Currently 14 stone and BMI is 25.1 so just overweight. A long time ago I was in a car accident, nothing too serious but I was in hospital for a bit and left a complete rake of a man at 11 stones, so by using that logic I'm not just overweight I'm overweight. Bit like the 5 a day campaign aparently thats just a made up number and they think if they are honest we won't even try. Think in Japan they have a target of 8 a day.

Good Luck with diet Steve, think I might give the cauliflower rice a try.


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## Steve Maskery (25 Jan 2017)

The cauliflower rice is surprisingly good, and I speak as a foodie. As long as you add some flavour to it (tonight was caraway and fennel seeds) it is excellent. I would not have known it was cauliflower.
I have friends coming for dinner on Saturday. I'm going to do a chicken curry and serve it as rice and see if they say anything.

Desserts are more difficult. Sugar substitutes are phenomenally expensive.


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## Jacob (25 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":4mrevsnx said:


> ....
> Desserts are more difficult. Sugar substitutes are phenomenally expensive.


My theory is that substitutes are a mistake - not least because they are nothing like the real thing. Trying to mimic the gross meals of yesteryear with artificial alternatives is difficult and unsustainable.
Instead, Steve if you want a pudding have one - but use a lot less sugar in the recipe and only have a very small portion. 
Make a steamed treacle suet pudding but with less treacle, and make it see you through the week. If you aren't sharing it with visitors just make a small one for yourself.
It's about changing what you eat but also more importantly - how you eat.


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## bugbear (25 Jan 2017)

skipdiver":2sixwnrv said:


> I found this to be an interesting article as some say that BMI is not the best way to measure obesity. Rugby players for instance would be classed as having a BMI that is too high, yet they are fit as fiddles mostly.
> 
> I am now aiming for what this article recommends and am getting there slowly.
> 
> ...



BMI is fine for most of the population; it fails quite badly for extreme athletes - body builders, weight lifters, gymnasts.

But most of the population don't have the fat/muscle ratio of these anomalies, and BMI works well enough.

BugBear


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## transatlantic (25 Jan 2017)

I agree with most of what has been said, I personally decided not to bother with any of these crazy diets. They're short term, unhealthy, lots of side effects and are usually very expensive. I've opted for something I know I can keep doing indefinately ... it just makes a lot more sense. 

Some of my changes include :

- Doing half an hour of exercise before any meal. 
- Cutting out desserts/puddings. I haven't missed them at all. I now just have a cup of tea instead
- Cutting out sugar in my tea. Over this year I've gone from 1 teapsoon, to half, to none. Don't miss it at all.
- Try to have half of every meal be veg/salad. I don't always get this right, but I'm pretty good.
- Cut out fizzy and alcoholic drinks in the house. I now keep a plastic container of squash in the fridge. Love it! .. very convenient
- Several times a day, I will try to find something to increase my heart rate, if only temporally. Luckily, I have my own little indoor gym for this. I find short burts of exercise like this to be very good, especially before bed (which I know sounds odd as you would think it would stop you sleeping?)

I was pretty bad with snacking, but now, whenever I'm tempted to snack I always say to myself, ... am I hungry enough that I would eat brocolli (a veg I don't love)? ... if the answer is yes, I'll have the snack, if not, I don't. More often than not, the answer is no, and the thought of having to eat the brocolii puts me off the snack  ...silly I know, but it works for me.


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## John Brown (25 Jan 2017)

That wouldn't work for me, as I love brocolli.


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## DennisCA (25 Jan 2017)

We all love broccoli in our family, if we're making broccoli we have to hide it or the kids (age 3) will want to eat it all before dinner is ready and then not want any dinner.


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## Jacob (25 Jan 2017)

John Brown":20sx8tfx said:


> That wouldn't work for me, as I love brocolli.


That's OK you can eat as much of it as you want. You can have mine as well.


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## Steve Maskery (25 Jan 2017)

One of the things I am finding is that my appetite is reduced. A couple of times in the last week I've made my dinner "normal" size (normal for Steve, that is) and only eaten half of it. That is not like me at all, I was brought up with "you'll eat what's given you" attitude. But that means eating the leftovers the next day, which is not what foodie people like me want to do, the cooking is just as pleasurable as the eating.



Jacob":2ti9y6ht said:


> My theory is that substitutes are a mistake - not least because they are nothing like the real thing. Trying to mimic the gross meals of yesteryear with artificial alternatives is difficult and unsustainable.


I have some sympathy with that view, Jacob. But that assumes you take sugar to be the real thing. Other sweeteners can be as good if not better in taste. For example, although I don't drink fizzy soft drinks very often, when I have to I would always choose Diet Pepsi over Pepsi.
And anyway, my meals are not, and never have been, gross!


Jacob":2ti9y6ht said:


> Instead, Steve if you want a pudding have one - but use a lot less sugar in the recipe and only have a very small portion.
> Make a steamed treacle suet pudding but with less treacle, and make it see you through the week. If you aren't sharing it with visitors just make a small one for yourself.


It doesn't really fit with a low-carb regime. It's not just the sugar, it's the flour, the treacle, all pure carbs. But I have never really been much of a dessert man, if I need two courses I would usually have a starter. But dinner parties are different. I think I'm going to try a low-carb lemon-meringue pie at the weekend. I've done almond pastry before and it is fine. As for something low-carb to sweeten it, I'll have to see what I can find.

PS Broccoli has long been my favourite veg! Easy to overcook though. The best way I have found is to pack the florets into a tiny saucepan, so that the stems boil but the rest steams.


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## Jacob (25 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":2mc0cs3i said:


> ...
> I have some sympathy with that view, Jacob. But that assumes you take sugar to be the real thing. Other sweeteners can be as good if not better in taste. For example, although I don't drink fizzy soft drinks very often, when I have to I would always choose Diet Pepsi over Pepsi......


I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole - dreadful synthetic stuff!


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## Sheffield Tony (25 Jan 2017)

Too many power tools :wink:


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## skipdiver (25 Jan 2017)

bugbear":37v41vu1 said:


> skipdiver":37v41vu1 said:
> 
> 
> > I found this to be an interesting article as some say that BMI is not the best way to measure obesity. Rugby players for instance would be classed as having a BMI that is too high, yet they are fit as fiddles mostly.
> ...



Most of the population yes, but not someone like me who has a lot of muscle mass. I have always been stocky and years spent cycling, playing football and doing building work have given me quite large muscle groups, which adds weight without fat. Even at my absolute fittest, i always weighed more than the recommended parameters and health professionals just look at the numbers. I have a mate who is a chiropractor and when he was working on my damaged shoulder, he said i had shoulder and back muscles like a gorilla. All those years of hand digging footings.


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## Racers (25 Jan 2017)

Steve you could take up a sport...

:wink:  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-38721106

Pete, who is fat according to my BMI.


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## cutting42 (25 Jan 2017)

Hi Steve and thread contributors 

Long time since we have spoken but a great post and subsequent discussion. A smattering of tired old stereotype comments and some great suggestions here. Thought I would add my experience as I have been through it a couple of times over the years.

To the people who claim it is easy, no it is not easy! The concept of less in and more out is simple certainly but actually knowing how to moderate intake for us who's bodies are not naturally slim is a huge challenge. Some have compared it as not as hard as giving up smoking. Well I have done that as well and would say giving up smoking is much easier. You can survive without smoking but you cannot survive without eating. Most smokers who try to cut down the amount they smoke will fail, they are much more likely to succeed by stopping.

I have tried the low carb approach a few years ago and was successful in losing weight fairly quickly but ultimately failed as I was unable to permanently remove carbs from my diet and they crept back in and weight piled back on.

I have had success over the past year or so with portion control and reducing between meal snacks approach. Learning to stop when full and not to eat as habit. I eat normal food in smaller portions, I now snack but typically on fruit only and still have treats but they are once a week not every day. Like Steve I love to cook and that can be a challenge as we like to taste and serve ourselves the tastiest bits and the temptation to serve large portions is always there.

I started after a mid life health check picked up on highish cholesterol, BP heading in the wrong direction, borderline type 2 diabetes and being greatly overweight. I was 19 1/2 stone at 5'10" very unfit and aged 50 so it was time to sort it out.

Using the above approach and going to the gym 5 days a week I am now around 14 1/2 stone with a resting heart rate of 48, can run a 30 min 5K and well out of the risk area for blood sugar, BP or cholesterol. I do not consider it a diet, it is what I do now and I still plan to reduce further as I would like to get into the correct BMI range.

In short I think your approach is pretty good Steve but I would definitely try to keep a balance in all food groups so you don't get any cravings. Concentrate on the portions sizes, avoid snacks, we rarely need them and are usually having them as we are bored or keeping others company.


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## Jacob (25 Jan 2017)

cutting42":2oupa9mf said:


> ...
> To the people who claim it is easy, no it is not easy! The concept of less in and more out is simple certainly but actually knowing how to moderate intake for us who's bodies are not naturally slim is a huge challenge. ....


OK not easy but I think it's _easier_ if you keep it simple and try to eat less (half portions, no snacks etc) rather than a complicated strategy involving calory counting, low carbs, substitute foods.
Basically because its easy to remember and you always know what you should do. You can always refine it with less sugar, salt etc, but you have a base line reference all the time in all circumstances. i.e. eat half what you normally would (or a lot less at least) and if in doubt eat less than the others at the table!


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## cutting42 (25 Jan 2017)

Jacob":ya5zm2s6 said:


> OK not easy but I think it's _easier_ if you keep it simple and try to eat less (half portions, no snacks etc) rather than a complicated strategy involving calory counting, low carbs, substitute foods.



Yes, absolutely, completely agree with that. It also becomes much easier to turn into a way of life, not a diet as such.


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## transatlantic (25 Jan 2017)

cutting42":zesk4eee said:


> Jacob":zesk4eee said:
> 
> 
> > OK not easy but I think it's _easier_ if you keep it simple and try to eat less (half portions, no snacks etc) rather than a complicated strategy involving calory counting, low carbs, substitute foods.
> ...



I honestly don't see the point in these silly diets, unless perhaps you're rapidly losing weight for an event or a life threatening condition. Begin something you can keep to indefinately. Yes it might be slower, but that just gives your body more time to adjust.


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## Benchwayze (25 Jan 2017)

I am obese. according to my BMI. 

So I'd rather measure my fat-lean percentage. 
As it happens according to that figure, I am still obese! (Fat is a noun; not an adjective.) 

Okay. so I am obese! 

But since I started low-carb, it is steadily reducing.  

John


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## acewoodturner (25 Jan 2017)

I am 53 years old and never have bought (or been given) trousers that are bigger than a 30 inch waist. In fact I also need to wear a belt to stop them falling down. I could probably fit into my old school trousers if I still had them. My secret is not to over eat in the first place and keeping busy in the workshop. I have always maintained that it is easier to not put on weight than it is to take it off! In fact as I work as a self employed cabinet maker/laser engraver I have actually lost a bit of weight this year as my jeans are a bit looser around the waist than they usually are. I mill all my own timber up with an Alaskan mill and do other tree surgery as well. I also cut and split my own firewood for the workshop. 
Now if only I could stop smoking I would be a lot happier, I don't drink alcohol so I don't need to worry about stopping that though!

Mike


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## Benchwayze (26 Jan 2017)

Mike. Had you been living in ancient times you would probably succumbed in winter an d not made it through. Us fatties who "overeat" had reserves to fall back on. So they say! Although much as you probably disbelieve me I have never over eaten in my life. My job caused me to fall back on Junk food quite often. I know that now. And I eat my fill of good food and i am losing weight.


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## Steve Maskery (26 Jan 2017)

For anyone interested in the science of why many diets don't result in long-term weight loss and why often people put weight back on even though they have reduced their calorie intake, and why it is not as simple as calories in minus calories out, this is a good lecture. He's a medical doctor, not a quack. It's half an hour, but worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkwZIi3R7w


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## bugbear (26 Jan 2017)

Steve Maskery":2gx31uef said:


> For anyone interested in the science of why many diets don't result in long-term weight loss and why often people put weight back on even though they have reduced their calorie intake, and why it is not as simple as calories in minus calories out, this is a good lecture. He's a medical doctor, not a quack. It's half an hour, but worth it.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETkwZIi3R7w



Slightly worried about the motive of a man who writes a diet book instead of an academic paper. :? 

EDIT; now I'm really worried.

On one of his web pages he makes The Big Claim

https://www.dietdoctor.com/the-calorie-debacle

_The Women’s Health Initiative was the most ambitious, important weight loss study ever done. This enormous randomized trial involving almost 50,000 women evaluated this low-fat, low calorie approach to weight loss.
_

_But when the final results were tallied in 2006, there was only crushing disappointment. Despite good compliance, over 7 years of calorie counting led to virtually no weight loss.
_

Being a cynic, I checked the actual WHI, and not Fung's representation of it.

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/whi/diet_mod.htm

It's written in a very dry style, to say the least.  

In fact, the "dietary intervention" part of the study involved _replacing_ calories from fat in the diet with calories from other sources, and did NOT even set overall calorie intake reduction as a goal.

The dietery intervention was in fact being tested to see if it helped health, in particular w.r.t. breast and colorectal cancer.

This level of misrepresentation rings alarm bells, at least for me.

BugBear


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## lurker (26 Jan 2017)

bugbear":1sb3flk5 said:


> Steve Maskery":1sb3flk5 said:
> 
> 
> > For anyone interested in the science of why many diets don't result in long-term weight loss and why often people put weight back on even though they have reduced their calorie intake, and why it is not as simple as calories in minus calories out, this is a good lecture. He's a medical doctor, not a quack. It's half an hour, but worth it.
> ...



Not much money to be made out of the latter.
Being poor is not a virtue


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## Steve Maskery (26 Jan 2017)

Possibly because a diet book will reach a gazillion times as many people as a paper? And anyway, are you sure he has not written an academic paper? The two are not mutually exclusive.
Watch the lecture, then decide.


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## Jacob (26 Jan 2017)

Benchwayze":30vfmc46 said:


> Mike. Had you been living in ancient times you would probably succumbed in winter an d not made it through. .....


Or shipwrecked - fatties survive much longer in cold water. In fact skinny people have been known to die of shock after jumping into very cold water.
I'd get some weight on if I were you - you never know when you might need it!


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## bugbear (26 Jan 2017)

lurker":217qc7kh said:


> bugbear":217qc7kh said:
> 
> 
> > Steve Maskery":217qc7kh said:
> ...



Money is an excellent motivation for lying.

Check out "Belle Gibson" for a fine example of lying about fad diets to make money.

BugBear


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## acewoodturner (26 Jan 2017)

Jacob":36kb9lo0 said:


> Benchwayze":36kb9lo0 said:
> 
> 
> > Mike. Had you been living in ancient times you would probably succumbed in winter an d not made it through. .....
> ...


The chances of me being shipwrecked or ending up in the North Sea are pretty remote so I wont waste time worrying about that. Also don't think that we wont have food in the house for a month or two either so I am ok on that score as well.
One of the things that does concern me is overweight children. I live about 50m from a primary school and about half the kids walk past my kitchen window. From observations over several years I would say that at least half if not more of these kids are overweight and are taken to school by overweight parents. I am being polite here as I could say that they are obese and unhealthy but I wont. This is a ticking timebomb for the future and as well documented in a thread on this forum can lead to unpleasant and painful medical issues. The chances of a skinny person picking these up are very much lower if you are a 'skinny'.
In these politically correct times why aren't school nurses allowed to intervene, after all it is a health issue and prevention is certainly better than cure.

Mike


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## Alexam (1 Feb 2017)

Good point Mike. 
These kids, as well as the parents, can be seen everywhere. I believe it's all the 'junk' food that is available and lack of training, or understanding. A great burden on the NHS for the future.
Malcolm


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## Farmer Giles (1 Feb 2017)

I had to lose weight and exercise or go on blood pressure lowering tablets. I've seen what long term use of BP tablets has done to my pa (along with the other 8 tablets he takes a day) so I chose the former but don't like fad diets and I'm not one for exercising for the sake of it.

Diet wise, I cut out most but not all carbs. No white rice, fewer spuds, no white pasta, no white bread and less bread in general. Much less beer, more wine! But I still need calories so I upped the protein and fats a bit and I uppded the veggies a lot. Nothing extreme and I haven't had any issue changing my lifestyle accordingly. I don't call it a diet, it is now the way I eat. I still go for the occasional curry with a naan and the odd pizza but my day to day diet has changed.

In terms of exercise, initially I did go on the bike and to the gym because I was unfit and my BP was very high. However now I have bought a dog and walk a lot. I still go to the gym but that's because I can go during my lunch hour at work so doesn't cut into my workshop time 

I lost 6kg in a few months, I wasn't massively overweight, down from 81 to 75kg and my BP is about normal unless I have a few beers/wines.

I had high cholestrol before and that has gone down a little but I am not worried about that, Statins as a preventative measure for heart disease is a big con in my researched opinion and "high" cholestrol is no indicator of being unhealthy, all this cholestrol blocking arteries is also largely a big con in my researched opinion. Total mortality of people on statins for preventative reasons and people not is just about the same, you just die of something else!


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## Steve Maskery (1 Feb 2017)

Well I don't plan on giving a running commentary on this, but I have lost 10lb from my peak, in 4 weeks, am sleeping better than I have for 7 years, my chronic indigestion has gone and I feel great. I'm still a Big Bloke, of course, and I intend to continue, but I'm not missing my carbs anywhere nearly as much as I expected to. I'm enjoying what I am eating and I am eating a lot less. I've not yet made a meal and thought, "That's not a proper dinner". And I have never felt unhappily hungry.

So, so far, so good.


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## Racers (1 Feb 2017)

Excellent news Steve, I am really pleased for you.

Pete


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## Benchwayze (1 Feb 2017)

Great news Steve, and Farmer. 

I was doing quite well on low carb too, but since my wife got ill and then worse, I haven't had so much time for woodwork, walking, and the garden. But I am still losing steadily, so I am not complaining. I just had to buy four new pairs of trousers. Two pairs of cords (I don't wear jeans) and two pairs of decent worsted, for socialising. All of these 'pants' are 4 inches less around the middle so I must be getting something right. 

I have also started buying grass fed meat online. My butcher's meat was good quality, but it wasn't completely grass fed. Now, I don't buy so much meat because it's more expensive, but by the cringe, it's beautiful meat, and half the quantities on my plate satisfy me. With cauliflower cheese of course! :mrgreen: 

Best of luck 

John


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## finneyb (1 Feb 2017)

Alexam":1bwvefc9 said:


> A great burden on the NHS for the future.
> Malcolm


Malcolm

I don't know that I agree with you. 

Is a 90 years old cheaper in total for the NHS than someone who dies early due to obesity at say 70 ? My money is that the 90 years old is the more expensive when you consider the extra 20 years of care needed.

Obesity makes good news and a useful stick to hit the public with to distract from the real NHS issues. I've no doubt they will die early, but they live the lives the way they want which I think is important. 

Brian


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## acewoodturner (1 Feb 2017)

Whilst I am not a health economist and don't have any factual evidence to back up my suppositions.........You would think that someone who has reached the grand old age of 90 has lead a pretty healthy life of sorts and has not really been a burden on the NHS (you would think). Someone who is obese and has poor health with lots of issues and illnesses will have been a regular at their GP and the hospital and therefore cost more to deal with. Many people who are obese to the point of requiring ongoing medical treatment do not work and are therefore do not make a net contribution to the economy . Maybe if you dive the costs of both typical persons by the years they live it works out kind of equal, but I kind of doubt it. Maybe someone who is better with figures than me can give a greater insight to the costs etc


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## Steve Maskery (1 Feb 2017)

Brian, that is a very interesting point of view.

My dad died 20 years ago of cancer, he was a smoker. He was 70.

My mum died last week. She was a week short of 87. She had had Continuing Health Care for 2 years, having been given 3 months to live, ( @ £650 per week), . That is on top of the "normal" NHS costs.

I think on balance I'm with Brian.

Not that I am in favour of smoking, I'm not. But the economics is ambivalent.


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## Steve Maskery (1 Feb 2017)

Ace
That is a considered view, and thank you for you constructive contribution (that is sincere, not mockery) but in fact, today, with all the benefits of modern healthcare, it is perfectly possible to be very very old, very very ill, for a very very very long time.

It's a long slow death and I have no intention of experiencing it.


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## Farmer Giles (1 Feb 2017)

Good on you Steve for doing something about it =D>

I would agree that the economics between 70 and 90 are ambiguous however I know a fair few type 2 diabetics in their thirties and forties. I met some mates for a beer a few weeks back and around the table of six, 3 were diabetic, one down to genetics, two down to lifestyle/diet. Smoking is becoming less prevalent but it will be a while before the NHS burden caused by it goes down, following up closely behind to soak up this surplus cash is diabetes, largely avoidable as per diseases caused by smoking but no less horrendous.


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## finneyb (1 Feb 2017)

acewoodturner":2tohlz3x said:


> Whilst I am not a health economist and don't have any factual evidence to back up my suppositions.........You would think that someone who has reached the grand old age of 90 has lead a pretty healthy life of sorts and has not really been a burden on the NHS (you would think). Someone who is obese and has poor health with lots of issues and illnesses will have been a regular at their GP and the hospital and therefore cost more to deal with. Many people who are obese to the point of requiring ongoing medical treatment do not work and are therefore do not make a net contribution to the economy . Maybe if you dive the costs of both typical persons by the years they live it works out kind of equal, but I kind of doubt it. Maybe someone who is better with figures than me can give a greater insight to the costs etc



You can lead a healthy life and still need hips/knee replacements; cancers while largely treatable can be very much age related due to the DNA replication errors building up; also heart valve replacements and dementia which look to me to be age related. Like you I would like to see some figures, but I bet nobody will touch it - far too sensitive a can of worms to open.

Brian


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## finneyb (1 Feb 2017)

Steve

My condolences on your mother's death - I hadn't realised your recent loss.

Brian


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## SammyQ (2 Feb 2017)

What Brian said. 

Sam


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## lurker (14 Feb 2017)

Update time Steve
Are you a 8 st weakling yet?

I was inspired by your thread and have lost 8 lbs, but as you know, this is just 0.0000001% :roll:


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## Steve Maskery (14 Feb 2017)

I used to be an 8st weakling and bullies used to kick sand in my face. But then I got up to 12st. I'd eaten 4st of sand...

Well I've lost a whopping 1lb in the last week, which is a tad disappointing, but that is 11lb since I started, less than 6 weeks ago. But I'm still enjoying what I'm eating, I'm not feeling hungry and I'm feeling pretty good. Certainly sleeping better.

I had friends round for dinner on Saturday and I did cook new potatoes, which is not part of the deal, really, but although I ate them, I didn't think "Wow, delicious, I've missed these!", and the dessert I made was a keto coconut cheescake, which EIISSM looked excellent and had a perfect texture. I would not have known that there was no flour or sugar in it. The only disappointment was that I couldn't find any coconut extract and so it was a bit lacking in flavour. But I'll do it again with a more trad lemon flavour and see what happens.







I've been invited out to a Brankie and Fenny's on Thursday. It will be very interesting to see whether I can resist the burger and chips. Fortunately there is a Calamaris Caesar salad that sounds excellent.

Off to find something interesting to do with lamb and leeks for this evening.


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## thetyreman (14 Feb 2017)

(post removed)


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## Steve Maskery (14 Feb 2017)

What? Are you drunk? 
Walk down my local high street. It's a poor neighbourhood. You will see more obese people than not. 
Cheap food is laden with 
sugar and starch. 
Please, either contribute constructively or not at all. This is not a place for an ignorant rant.


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## thetyreman (14 Feb 2017)

Steve Maskery":2yo4ni92 said:


> What? Are you drunk?
> Walk down my local high street. It's a poor neighbourhood. You will see more obese people than not.
> Cheap food is laden with
> sugar and starch.
> Please, either contribute constructively or not at all. This is not a place for an ignorant rant.



it's not an 'ignorant rant' though, no need to get so upset :shock:


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## Steve Maskery (14 Feb 2017)

Yes there is.


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## Benchwayze (14 Feb 2017)

Steve Maskery":5864ml4w said:


> I used to be an 8st weakling and bullies used to kick sand in my face. But then I got up to 12st. I'd eaten 4st of sand...
> 
> Well I've lost a whopping 1lb in the last week, which is a tad disappointing, but that is 11lb since I started, less than 6 weeks ago. But I'm still enjoying what I'm eating, I'm not feeling hungry and I'm feeling pretty good. Certainly sleeping better.
> 
> ...


Steve.

Just eat the burger and a few salad veggies. With double cream if you wish. I have a recipe for lamb neck fillet and leeks somewhere if you get stuck. 

John


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## novocaine (15 Feb 2017)

you could have the burger without the bun and not have the chips. 

actually, that sounds awful, ignore me. 

you've now lost the initial weight, which is mainly water retention and the most recently stored fats, that's the easy bit I'm afraid. well done for getting to this side of it, now on to the next stage, the long slow burn of fat reserves, this is where most people get disheartened, because they expect the 2-4lbs a week they had at first. you'll have blips where you drop that in a week (normally because you racked it on the week before but that's another story) but from now on expect 1-2lbs a week for a good and sustainable weight loss. 

on the plus side, with a steady and slow loss of weight it tends to stay off easier when you return to eating more, we all do it, normally with statements like "oh it's christmas so you have to" and such like. 

you can do some work on getting your metabolism working again now too, and get your heart working a few times a day, even if it's 30 seconds of up and down the stairs, it won't help with the weight loss but it will start conditioning you to be healthier and fitter in the long run. 

well done Steve, and crack on with it.


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## monkeybiter (15 Feb 2017)

novocaine":3p1hqvha said:


> you can do some work on getting your metabolism working again now too, and get your heart working a few times a day, even if it's 30 seconds of up and down the stairs, it won't help with the weight loss but it will start conditioning you to be healthier and fitter in the long run.



I now try to run upstairs when possible, that gets easier [and more satisfying].


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## novocaine (15 Feb 2017)

I was watching something and this popped up in the interest column. its right, it is interesting. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuIlsN32WaE


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## DennisCA (18 Feb 2017)

Felt relevant
https://www.google.fi/amp/s/amp.theguar ... than-obese


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## thetyreman (18 Feb 2017)

DennisCA":nz3e1icn said:


> Felt relevant
> https://www.google.fi/amp/s/amp.theguar ... than-obese



careful, this is what I tried to say but got shouted at.


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## DennisCA (19 Feb 2017)

I am not sure what you tried to say, but if I were to venture an opinion it would be that the poor and unemployed in the UK have so little money they can't afford to get fat.


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## Tetsuaiga (19 Feb 2017)

I don't really have a major issue with my weight but could lose a little. 

For me what seems to work is controlling things at the point of buying them. If you don't buy it and take it home its not there to tempt you. I still let myself have some treats, but i'm trying not to buy multipacks, even if its more expensive to buy individually.

My favourite healthy meals at the moment are tuna steaks with vegetable salad, usually some crushed almonds and dressing. Vegitable omlette is the other, I have some grated cheese on that but not a crazy amount. For breakfast I mostly have a museli, nice with hot milk.


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## AJB Temple (19 Feb 2017)

The Guardian article is interesting but doesn't really tell us much. We need a large scale population study for that. Anecdotally, if I try to correlate weight versus perceived intelligence in people I know come across, I struggle to think of any well educated people who are grossly obese. Poverty / intelligence / social class quite possibly do make a difference.


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## Keithie (19 Feb 2017)

DennisCA":35tx219t said:


> I am not sure what you tried to say, but if I were to venture an opinion it would be that the poor and unemployed in the UK have so little money they can't afford to get fat.



I can see why you might come to that conclusion.Sadly though, while true for the ultra poor, its not so for those who are doing ok but not really wealthy. For those folk, who are the mainstay of our societyand domost of the tough jobs, they can afford enough food, but not the higher price stuff. The higher price stuff is the fresh fruit & veg and lower fat premium meat/fish.

It might be just a thing this year, biut even my wife and I (and we are comfortably retired on good pensions) are appalled at the price of fruit and veg ...it's a genuine scandal..our health being held hostage by supermarkets for the benefit of supermarket bosses pay and shareholder dividends


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