# Applying Danish Oil?



## sploo (31 Jan 2016)

I'm using Danish oil for the first time and applying it with a lint free cloth. The instructions say to leave it for 5 minutes then wipe off the excess. I'm finding I'm not really getting much excess at all even when I when I first apply. Is that likely to be a problem - i.e. does it need to go on heavy in order to work properly?

I could of course soak the cloth and pool it on but I guess that's not really necessary?


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## Sgian Dubh (31 Jan 2016)

The first coat most often tends to soak in significantly on most wood species leaving very little to wipe off. Subsequent coats will leave more on the surface to wipe off. Stick to the application advice printed on the tin - the manufacturers often know best how to use their own products. Slainte.


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## Cordy (31 Jan 2016)

sploo, what wood is it ?

I know that Walnut soaks it up like a sponge


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## sploo (31 Jan 2016)

Thanks. It's bubinga.

I assumed the first coats would soak up more but with the cloth I was applying less than I'd normally get with a brush and I was wondering if there was a necessity to really soak the wood for the first coats.


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## marcros (31 Jan 2016)

just bear in mind that an oil finish on bubinga tends to leave a matt finish


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jan 2016)

Your predictive text is in action again...


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jan 2016)

Some brands iirc advise thinning the first coat.


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## marcros (31 Jan 2016)

phil.p":1fximlc3 said:


> Your predictive text is in action again...



I wish that I could turn it off. the most annoying thing is that it changes it after you have typed it correctly. since it is a word that i am confident that i have spelled correctly, I never think to look back at the change.


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## sploo (31 Jan 2016)

marcros":9h3iodhr said:


> just bear in mind that an oil finish on bubinga tends to leave a matt finish


I didn't know that. Is that common, or only on some species? Certainly it gives a fantastic sheen when wet, but dulls when drying.

I've got a set of new plane handles I've made from bubinga (i.e. rosewood substitute) and I'm trying to decide between shellac + furniture wax, danish oil, and danish oil + furniture wax.

The oil certainly results in a darker appearance, which I think is closer to what I want. I've got four coats of shellac on a test piece (first two thinned), and I've just put the third coat of oil on another (obviously it's much slower with the drying time).




marcros":9h3iodhr said:


> I wish that I could turn it off. the most annoying thing is that it changes it after you have typed it correctly. since it is a word that i am confident that i have spelled correctly, I never think to look back at the change.


*Ahem*...

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/autocorrect

:wink:


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## marcros (31 Jan 2016)

i don't know, to be honest. I have a bit of bubinga in my workshop, and in playing about and turning a bit, I put on some oil, polished it up and left it on the side in the house. Once in a while, I pick it up and notice how it has changed in colour over the few months since I have done it. I didn't put that much effort into the finish, because I didn't really like the item but it seemed funny at the time that it didn't glow like an item finished with oil does. I had assumed that I had finished it badly or not prepared it thoroughly before the oil.

It was only the other day that I read somewhere that oil leaves a matt finish on bubinga, and I immediately thought that the article/forum post/whatever it was mirrored my (limited) experience with the timber. I mentioned it here because I don't know what effect you were looking for, but may well not know about it. [i think it was from here https://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/produc ... /BUBSB_MST]

I like the autocorrect article, but was hoping that it was the instructions on how to turn it off!


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## sploo (31 Jan 2016)

marcros":25c5nwvy said:


> i don't know, to be honest. I have a bit of bubinga in my workshop, and in playing about and turning a bit, I put on some oil, polished it up and left it on the side in the house. Once in a while, I pick it up and notice how it has changed in colour over the few months since I have done it. I didn't put that much effort into the finish, because I didn't really like the item but it seemed funny at the time that it didn't glow like an item finished with oil does. I had assumed that I had finished it badly or not prepared it thoroughly before the oil.
> 
> It was only the other day that I read somewhere that oil leaves a matt finish on bubinga, and I immediately thought that the article/forum post/whatever it was mirrored my (limited) experience with the timber. I mentioned it here because I don't know what effect you were looking for, but may well not know about it. [i think it was from here https://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/produc ... /BUBSB_MST]
> 
> I like the autocorrect article, but was hoping that it was the instructions on how to turn it off!


Interesting; thanks. TBH I know the "standard" finish (for many items) is shellac followed by wax, and I'm quite comfortable with that (though I've never used bubinga before). I was thinking that Danish oil might be a more hardwearing finish (with some wax).

I'll add a fourth coat of the oil tomorrow night, and I'll then wax half of it to see how it compares to the waxed shellac.

BTW Autocorrect - totally depends on the device. One thing you can usually do is select a word and add it to your dictionary, so it won't "correct" it next time.


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jan 2016)

I've always soaked mine in linseed. That's it - nice and comfortable in the hand. Easy.


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## ED65 (1 Feb 2016)

sploo":237ou5by said:


> I'm trying to decide between shellac + furniture wax, danish oil, and danish oil + furniture wax.


Do remember you can apply shellac, or straight varnish, over the Danish oil if it ends up more matt than you'd like.

Also to mention again something that was said in the other thread a few weeks back, you don't need to apply wax on top of shellac. In a given circumstance the wax won't give any difference in finish, and only a very minor difference in feel once it's buffed out to nothing.


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## sploo (1 Feb 2016)

ED65":3ddsucou said:


> Do remember you can apply shellac, or straight varnish, over the Danish oil if it ends up more matt than you'd like.
> 
> Also to mention again something that was said in the other thread a few weeks back, you don't need to apply wax on top of shellac. In a given circumstance the wax won't give any difference in finish, and only a very minor difference in feel once it's buffed out to nothing.


This is where I'd love to learn more about finishing. I know DO is oil + varnish, so should (hopefully) set, but in my head, there's no way something should stick to that surface, and why would you then want to apply shellac on top of it, as shellac is for sealing raw wood. Obviously that's not the case, as I've seen numerous combinations of (what seem to me incompatible) products used for solving various finishing issues.

BTW I was going to apply wax to buff out for a bit of shine (in the same way that I'd use on shellac). Purely for cosmetic reasons.


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## ED65 (1 Feb 2016)

sploo":6oitkui5 said:


> This is where I'd love to learn more about finishing. I know DO is oil + varnish...


Plus lots more white spirit, best not to forget that. This is part of what makes the commercial item such a swizz, but it is also part of what makes them less likely to build a surface film which would be relatively soft.

Yes products like Danish oil do 'set', but not nearly as hard as straight varnish. The higher the oil proportion the softer the finish cures. 



sploo":6oitkui5 said:


> but in my head, there's no way something should stick to that surface


First reason this works is that cured oil isn't oily (although you _can _apply shellac on top of oily wood, but don't worry about that for now). 

You can also get away with overcoating using a film finish in general because it hasn't built up a noticeable film on the surface, which most commercial Danish oils don't easily allow anyway (because they're a penetrating finish, because they're so thin, because you wipe away all the excess).



sploo":6oitkui5 said:


> why would you then want to apply shellac on top of it, as shellac is for sealing raw wood.


Shellac can be used for sealing raw wood but that's not its sole purpose by any means. You can 'seal' raw wood with dilute hide glue too! In the past shellac was a premier final finish – French polish – and some people still use it for that.

As to why you'd want to apply shellac on top you could do it just for increased gloss, or to provide a harder and more durable surface.


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## sploo (1 Feb 2016)

ED65":28g6bhal said:


> sploo":28g6bhal said:
> 
> 
> > This is where I'd love to learn more about finishing. I know DO is oil + varnish...
> ...


It's all a bit mindboggling isn't it  

I notice that the DO is giving a much deeper sheen to the wood than the shellac. If I added shellac over the DO then (vs just shellac) is the benefit (of the DO) just cosmetic, or is the penetrating part of the DO a benefit to the wood?

I was looking at DO because I'd assumed shellac was more a cosmetic coating for furniture items, and wouldn't be as hard wearing as DO for a tool handle. Perhaps that's incorrect.


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## BelmontBespoke (1 Feb 2016)

I'm always a huge fan of Osmo oil, it's a bit thicket than Danish oil and is part vegetable oils and varnish in one product, this means it can go on like an oil with a rag or with a brush, making it easy to use, I'd say it's a bit harder wearing too and doesn't need re applying every 6 months or few years!
You can find it online or at most good flooring suppliers as it was primarily used for timber floor finishing.
It's not cheap though!


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## sploo (1 Feb 2016)

BelmontBespoke":236lhy6y said:


> I'm always a huge fan of Osmo oil, it's a bit thicket than Danish oil and is part vegetable oils and varnish in one product, this means it can go on like an oil with a rag or with a brush, making it easy to use, I'd say it's a bit harder wearing too and doesn't need re applying every 6 months or few years!
> You can find it online or at most good flooring suppliers as it was primarily used for timber floor finishing.
> It's not cheap though!


Yes, the price of Osmo has put me off in terms of experimenting.

I've started coating another offcut of the bubinga with DO, as once I've matched the number of coats on my other piece I'll shellac it, so I'll have all options from which to choose.


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## ED65 (2 Feb 2016)

sploo":3vr7elyn said:


> t's all a bit mindboggling isn't it


Oh yeah, finishing is a very complicated subject with the many variables and little wrinkles. You can try to keep it simple by just sticking to a few basics and working with them in various combinations. For me that would be BLO, shellac, a varnish and paste wax. Some combination of those covers everything I need currently and it makes it easier to pick what to use. 

If you wanted to you could oil everything, or just wax everything. There are a few woodworkers who do that.



sploo":3vr7elyn said:


> I notice that the DO is giving a much deeper sheen to the wood than the shellac.


Yeah, that'll be the wetting action of the oil. This effect is why it's not uncommon to use oil first even if the final finish is going to be shellac or varnish.



sploo":3vr7elyn said:


> If I added shellac over the DO then (vs just shellac) is the benefit (of the DO) just cosmetic, or is the penetrating part of the DO a benefit to the wood?


Honestly I doubt it adds much or any significant benefit to the wood, so maybe 95% cosmetic? This is with a harder wood like bubinga, softer woods may benefit more from being coated first in an oil+varnish mixture to toughen up the surface wood fibres.



sploo":3vr7elyn said:


> I was looking at DO because I'd assumed shellac was more a cosmetic coating for furniture items, and wouldn't be as hard wearing as DO for a tool handle. Perhaps that's incorrect.


This is one of those things where there's no easy answer. One person will get great service from shellac and another will report that it begins to flake off after a few years and that's the reason they switched to using BLO or Danish oil. 

But it depends so much on what wood it was applied to, obviously how much use the handles are getting (pro v. weekend user) and how thickly the shellac is applied. It's actually a little less durable when applied very thickly as contradictory as that seems. And on top of all that the type of shellac matters, freshly-made button shellac is really quite different to a bleached shellac in a tin.


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## sploo (2 Feb 2016)

ED65":3em5dloc said:


> sploo":3em5dloc said:
> 
> 
> > t's all a bit mindboggling isn't it
> ...


Very useful info, thanks.

I've used shellac + wax on small projects before (jewellery boxes) and never had a problem with the finish - though obviously they're not handled that much.

I see Paul Sellers just uses a dyed shellac to put a deep brown colour on his restored plane handles, then waxes them.

I suspect the bubinga ones will look good with DO, shellac, or DO + shellac, with or without wax; but I have a few brown, and black, handles from old planes too. With the old coating scraped off they still retain an underlying brown or black (ok, dark grey) tone, so hopefully with DO and maybe shellac on top they'll look good. I don't really want to go to the degree of tinting shellac or painting them at this stage.


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## sploo (16 Feb 2016)

I've been doing more experiments with the various options. It's difficult to get good shots of finishes (for comparison) as even the slightest difference in angle (reflection/sheen) can give a misleading photo. This shot shows both sides of the same block, DO + shellac on the left and shellac only on the right:







I was lazy with the DO + shellac side; it still has marks from the paper template that was glued to it, and I didn't sand it properly. However, it's definitely got a deeper sheen to the wood; basically, the effect a greasy bacon sarnie has on a paper bag :wink:. The shellac finish alone was slightly less shiny, but probably only because it'd gotten dusty.

Once I'd waxed both sides however (no photo, sorry), the difference was much smaller. The shellac-only does gain some depth, and whilst the DO + shellac is still better, there's probably more variation due to the wood than the difference between the two coatings.

A DO-only sample can be polished to a satin sheen, but still has a slight friction to the touch. With some wax that was good too; maybe close to the shellac + wax, but a little darker.

In short: shellac+wax looks really good. DO+shellac+wax is just a bit better, but a lot more work for only a small visual improvement. DO+wax is probably pointless as the shellac seems to help a lot and is really quick to apply (i.e. if you've done the DO, I'd also add the shellac).

On the image above you might spot lots of small pits from the grain. I have another couple of test blocks where I'm wet sanding with DO, and wiping the slurry across the grain; as per instructions I saw for grain filling. I haven't finished them yet, but on brief inspection I don't think it's making much difference. It's not critical for handles anyway, though probably not acceptable for fine furniture.


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