# Bargain tools



## marcros (26 Sep 2011)

There is a helpful review on forstner bits that seem to be excellent value for money. 

bargain-forstner-bits-t54469.html 

For many people who do not use tools professionally, and for some that do, we cannot justify the expensive brand names for things that get infrequent use.

What other bargains out there can anybody recommend?


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## powertools (27 Sep 2011)

I was waiting with interest to read replies to this but it would seem that you and I are the only ones interested.
I prefere to have a workshop full of usable tools rather than a drawer full of overpriced and under used tools.
Some of my tools are high quality but not always brand name and some cheap that with a bit of skill will do the job
I guess a lot depends on your skill level and the type of work you do


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## bosshogg (27 Sep 2011)

Lidl are doing fostner bits this coming Monday, five for £2.99. Also countersink drill sets c/w depth gauge and alan keys, & titanium coated drill/mill bits, all £2.99/five. They also have chrome vanadium carving sets c/w ash handles £19.99 a set of 1doz...bosshogg  


> "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kirkpoore1 (27 Sep 2011)

I know nothing about this set, but I bought a 12 piece set of cheap Chinese Forstner bits about a decade ago. They work good enough for occasional use. When I need a size on a regular basis, I buy the one I need. Good Forstner bits clear chips much better and start out sharper--but you can sharpen the cheap ones too.

Kirk


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## Stoday (28 Sep 2011)

I had a nice set of Forstner bits but I haven't been able to find them since I moved house five years ago.


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## bugbear (28 Sep 2011)

marcros":28vm5oxy said:


> There is a helpful review on forstner bits that seem to be excellent value for money.
> 
> bargain-forstner-bits-t54469.html
> 
> ...



Even (sensible) professionals might use lesser tools for infrequent use. Expensive tools hit the bottom line.

BugBear


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## condeesteso (28 Sep 2011)

Sorry but a bit slow getting to this one, and it's a favourite topic of mine!
I started during the 70s, and one overwhelming view is just how very good many cheap tools are now. The internet also makes it far easier to find them, and places like ebay make finding unusual items easy.
I recommended the Screwfix Forstner bits because they actually work very well... unlike some other cheap ones I got a while ago (the gold coloured). So not all the budget tools are good, and we need to recommend to each other when we find the good ones (and warn against the bad).
Some of my budget hot tips: Bahco saws (B&Q etc) - at under a tenner really very impressive. Look out for their 'tenon' cross-cut pull saw for about £7. very fine kerf, tracks true and leaves a really fine finish. Macallister power tools (B&Q again) - may not be as durable as the expensive ones, but you get a lot of very useful ability for the money. And finally (for now) second-hand. Whether it's a band saw or a hand plane - ebay etc for older Startrites etc (bandsaw) and vintage U.S. Stanley hand planes or early Records (but look for the Crucible cast blade versions). Same with chisels - the old blue handle Marples have excellent blades and crop up at boot fairs for absolute peanuts.
One last thought I have - it's all in the blade. Not totally true, but even an old Startrite bandsaw or a budget new router will perform a lot better if you invest a little in a decent blade.

p.s. and I know Festool is good at the other end of the scale, but as an owner of 3 of their items I will say good, but not THAT good.


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## condeesteso (1 Oct 2011)

I'm going to try and keep this thread alive, as I believe it can be useful... but it needs more input.
Anyway, here are a couple more:





The ones I want to mention are the Rolson 4" square, a really excellent tool at well under £10. I use it more than any other adjustable square because it is the right size almost all the time, and it is very precise and solid. I did tweak it a tiny bit when I got it - wet'n'dry along the groove of the rule (so it slides better) and a dressing of the slightly rough casting where the lock-screw beds. this was all to make it smoother and faster to use, and it took minutes. But even out of the box it is really very good indeed. My U.S. Starrett is also good, maybe a tiny bit better*, but as the Starrett cost £60, the Rolson wins hands down (at around 13% of the price).
Also from Rolson, the 4" combi-square is equally good (the straight square is generally more useful). And the utility knife they do that folds... my absolute favourite utility knife. It is really nicely engineered. I found a box set of a wood handled version with a foldy multi-tool, all for about £18. They usually come with a blue anodised handle - if you see one around (about £6) get it! Their blades are really quite good too. Basically I recommend Rolson.
And the Japanese marking knife - v-tipped so fast to go left or right. Hyper-sharp, flat-backed... my favourite marker by far. About a tenner (Axminster). Oh yes, and I have used it many a time as a paring chisel too (inside joints).
On the older ebay stuff - the US Stanley 10 1/2 (the rebate plane) seems a luxury, but I found my first real use for it, cleaning the rebates for the woodscrews on the underside of the bench top.
The 10 1/2 isn't a budget tool (mine cost £85) but a reminder that old US Stanleys are brilliant - and you can pick up a No4 for around £35 - 40 (OK guys, knock a nought off at the bootfairs).
ON U.S. Stanleys, the 2" chisel shown has also been massively useful shifting waste in big joints (I bought 3 incl this on ebay for about £20).
And the mallet - that was free!... and you won't find one of those at the bootfair.





I will be adding to this - just a few things I use a lot, rate highly, and paid little for.

As Don Weber (reknowned bodger, blacksmith, maker and writer) said: " As with any craft you can spend a fortune just getting set up, or you can spend next to nothing and just get on with it."

*p.s. actually, no it isn't... not in any tangible way I could argue.


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## marcros (3 Oct 2011)

Not woodworking, but I have just bought one of these socket sets, having lost half of my halfords professional set over the years. Feels very solid in the hands, has done all of the car maintenance tasks that I have asked of it and sold to me by a really nice chap, and made to the King Dick spec.

http://www.abbotstools.co.uk/product/61 ... t_UBM-611M 

The spanners seem equally good too- those in the know will know the difference in price between these and branded King Dick.


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## powertools (5 Oct 2011)

This thread will never run on as there is no cred in owning and using lower priced tools.
My best buys of late include Lamborghini router with 12 bits £29.95, JCB wall mounted recoil extension lead artic cable twin socket and overload protection £14.95 and tooltec router table inc 3 feather boards £19.95.


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## condeesteso (5 Oct 2011)

powertools":2lb97mvh said:


> This thread will never run on as there is no cred in owning and using lower priced tools.



You may be right Power, but we both tried. Fact is there are a lot of really good budget tools around, and some horrors too. As and when I find any others I will report.


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## Mark A (5 Oct 2011)

I hope this thread isn't consigned to General Woodworking archives and stays on because I like a good bargain! 

I bought a set of those forstner bits from Screwfix and tried them this evening. Perfect - nice clean holes, and just over £30 when bought in store. 

Cheap good tools - I've got a Macallister reciprocating saw I bought from B&Q in a sale a few years ago for £20. It was indispensable when we were renovating our house, cutting up kitchen units, studs, trees etc and taking out door frames and windows. Personally I can't really see the point in paying over 200 quid for a fancy Makita or Dewalt as they do EXACTLY the same job, but for 10 times the cost. Just don't skimp on the blades as they make a big difference over Draper and Silverline. 

I recently bought an Erbauer planer as I needed one for a job, and couldn't stretch to a better make. For £55, what do you expect? The sole isn't perfectly flat, but I intend to use it for rough shaping before finishing off by hand anyway so it isn't really an issue. The noise isn't as bad as a green Bosch I used to have, and the dust extraction isn't terrible either. I don't know how long it'll last, but with a 2 year warrantry I'll just return it if it does break. 

The Wickes 6kg SDS drill is also pretty good if you can get it in a sale. It's made by Draper, but don't let that put you off - it's powerful and reliable. I worn out the brushes renovating our house and as it was still under guarantee I returned it, expecting to be given a replacement but they didn't have any in stock so I put a tenner towards the small Wickes Professional SDS drill (on sale :roll: ). It's brilliant for the £75 or so I spent on it - German (made by Kress), 5 year warranty and similar specs to the Makita. 

I also had the Erbauer 1/3 sheet sander for a few years before I dropped it and snapped the sanding plate in 2. It was about £25 at the time and worked fine. A bit noisy and the dust extraction was quite poor, but otherwise very reliable. 


Cheap bad tools - Macallister jigsaw, Ryobi jigsaw, Erbauer 115mm grinder, Erbauer biscuit jointer, Wickes 230mm grinder, Performance Power tile cutter, Homebase circular saw and Performance Power mitre saws. 

These are just from my experience, and I've labelled them as "bad" either for breaking prematurely, being dangerous or just for being generally rubbish. 

Mark


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## Rob Platt (5 Oct 2011)

Shh about the marples blue chisels or they`ll all want them one set went for about £35 on e bay a while back probably more than they ever retailed for.
3 wooden jacks and a coffin smoother for less than £20 .Stuck a big erbaur router in my table for about £70. Macallister cordless 18 volt buy 2 for less than the cost of one the big names 
all the best
rob


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## condeesteso (5 Oct 2011)

Mark - I also got a Kress (branded Wickes)... in my case a jigsaw. They seemed desperate to get rid of them, and I think I paid about £25. That was maybe 3 years ago, and it is very good indeed but probably long-gone now.
Pleased you rate those Screwfix Forstners... I have been using them a lot the last few days and working some of them quite hard. They are miles ahead of the gold-coloured cheapies around. Some 'cheap' is alarmingly good (these) but by no means all.


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## theartfulbodger (7 Oct 2011)

I've been reading this thread and hoping for more replies. I swear by my Halfords Pro gear  I wish there was a woodworking equivalent - cheap(ish) lifetime guarantee solid useable good quality and cheap(ish)

Or is there?

I have a mixed bag of budget/second hand tools from BandQ Wickes Axminster Toolstation etc and while the "better" tools are the ones by Axi and the like that I have picked up second hand, there is definitely a space in my garage for the cheaper stuff. Especially things I use less often.


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## jimi43 (7 Oct 2011)

When buying "bargain" tools, I think we have to consider what part of the tool has been cheapened in order to produce it at a profit.

Aside from constant, professional use....most power tools will perform brilliantly if say, the cutter, is substituted for a good quality one. With a bit of a setup, they can perform light duty for a long time. 

Professionals mostly shy away from cheap tools as the cost of failure on site is something that they must avoid....and in any case...high quality pro tools will pay for themselves over and over again.

Some tools cannot be fettled to even usable quality though...and probably the most common of these are the cheap screwdrivers which break or crumble under even light use.

My best bargain is a B&Q special SMS, revamped with a Freud blade and it still cuts beautifully every time...square and clean.

Would I love to replace it with a Makita or a Festool...of course...is it a priority...no.....definitely not.

I will however repeat my very best bargain tool...the Burgess Powerline bandsaw....refitted with a Tuffsaw blade is absolutely out of this world. For safe, clean cuts in small jobs and sweeping curves...it is ideal. £10 well spent!

Jim


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## marcros (7 Oct 2011)

I see that Rutlands have an offer on sash clamps http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psPro ... ?promo=124 

Is Dakota stuff to be avoided or worth the (reduced) money?


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## paultnl (7 Oct 2011)

I have some Dakota stuff and find it OK. The price on the 6 pack of sash clamps is very tempting.


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## marcros (7 Oct 2011)

Just ordered some. lifetime warranty gives some confidence, so we will see.


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## condeesteso (7 Oct 2011)

yes I think those Dakota clamps at that price will be v good. I seriously need to invest in clamps, and those do get good user reviews. I have criticised Dakota before, but recently some of the Rutlands deals have been tempting... 62 1/2" router bits for about £120 when they had the 25% deal going!! Two quid a bit - and I have had Tornado before, pretty good I thought.


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## xy mosian (12 Oct 2011)

I got dragged into 'The Big Orange' today, JCB 20" handsaws, 7,9 and 11 point £7:98. Buy one get one free. I haven't used these yet, haven't used JCB before, but at that price, can they be terrible?

xy


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## bosshogg (12 Oct 2011)

No, just un-sharpenable...bosshogg


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## theartfulbodger (12 Oct 2011)

The JCB branded ratchet spanners that I once had were pineapple...


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## jimi43 (12 Oct 2011)

xy mosian":34glxceo said:


> I got dragged into 'The Big Orange' today, JCB 20" handsaws, 7,9 and 11 point £7:98. Buy one get one free. I haven't used these yet, haven't used JCB before, but at that price, can they be terrible?
> 
> xy



They're big and yellow and you can make big holes in the garden with them...what do you think!? :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## xy mosian (13 Oct 2011)

Ah well! Another fool caught by the lure of cheap tools  

xy


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## theartfulbodger (13 Oct 2011)

Not necessarily a fool, just someone trying to find the balance between price and value  as I do, and I guess we all do


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## jimi43 (13 Oct 2011)

xy mosian":rfrxyg3p said:


> Ah well! Another fool caught by the lure of cheap tools
> 
> xy



We've all done it mate...you are walking past the cereal....and the lure of tools suddenly emerges between the Cornflakes and the Coco Pops... :wink: 

I think it's a cunning trick by the supermarket giants to get more iron into our diet.......  

While I'm in Asda I'll buy a coat...I promise...by George I promise...(groans himself at that one!)

:mrgreen: 

Jim


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## disco_monkey79 (13 Oct 2011)

My JCB 4.5" grinder is still going strong, after many hours of use, so I really can't knock it. Also got a JCB jigsaw, which does what I ask it, and feels quite sturdy.


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## xy mosian (13 Oct 2011)

Thanks for the words of consolation all. Time will tell about the useability of these saws. After my discount, wednesday 10% off, and including the rather nifty magnetic tooth guards I'm not too dischuffed.

xy


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## jimi43 (14 Oct 2011)

xy mosian":399m7ngf said:


> Thanks for the words of consolation all. Time will tell about the useability of these saws. After my discount, wednesday 10% off, and including the rather nifty magnetic tooth guards I'm not too dischuffed.
> 
> xy



AH! The magnetic tooth guards are probably very useful...it would be interesting to see how they cut and how long they last....

You know we're only joshing with you mate....

Jim


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## GazPal (14 Oct 2011)

jimi43":3pumhi0i said:


> xy mosian":3pumhi0i said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the words of consolation all. Time will tell about the useability of these saws. After my discount, wednesday 10% off, and including the rather nifty magnetic tooth guards I'm not too dischuffed.
> ...




Those magnetic saw guard thingies are pretty useless for cutting wood, but do a nice job of protecting saw teeth and can tend to last for years. :wink:


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## jimi43 (14 Oct 2011)

GazPal":3hr1hv3k said:


> jimi43":3hr1hv3k said:
> 
> 
> > xy mosian":3hr1hv3k said:
> ...




Indeed..... :mrgreen: :wink: 

J


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## condeesteso (11 Nov 2011)

Notice Rutlands re-doing the 66pc 1/2" router bits for £120 this weekend. I got those last time around and at under £2 a bit, with a massive array of profiles.... a bargain indeed. Find the quality good too, maybe not top-end (you can easily pay £40 for a single bit) but for general use really very good. *Pile in!!*


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## chipmunk (11 Nov 2011)

Hi All,
It was forstner bits that started this thing off and Record have their 16 piece set on offer at the moment for about £40.

I bought a set a while ago because an Axminster own brand single bit I bought was so poor and have been impressed with them. One difference compared to the Screwfix set is that above a moderate diameter the shanks are hex which means you don't have to be Popeye to tighten the chuck to stop it slipping ;-) 

What about making your own tools? Looks as if Douglas has done a bit of that. Isn't that the best bargain?

I always buy unhandled woodturning tools when I can and would much rather make than buy to save money for the things I can't make. 

Mallets, screwdrivers, chisel handles, bradawls, marking guages, marking knives, turning tools, lathe centres, toolrests. Had a go at all of those and I use them all of the time - often in preference to the bought tools.

Jon


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## condeesteso (11 Nov 2011)

Ah yes Jon... indeed I have. You mention chisels, chisel handles. Was over Jim's briefly today mainly to pay him for the cutting gauge. Took away one 1/4" Marples chisel (blue handle, white plastic 'washer'). I am going to do a make-over on it and give it back to Jim after - not like he can't do his own, but I enjoy making the best from a basic good tool. Already said elsewhere (the chisel thread) but those Marples are absolute crackers*. He paid 20p at a boot fair for this one. I plan an African blackwood handle and take it through my KinSharp (TM) routine. Will come out well under a fiver, and will give almost any chisel a serious run.
More news later... but which thread??
* In my own experience, they beat the same period Stanleys - precision of grinding all round, every facet. And the steel seems finer. Edge holds better too.


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## No skills (11 Nov 2011)

"KinSharp (TM)"  

I have my own version of that, Bluntasfuk - past down through generations of half assed bodgers, creators of the first 'safety' chisel.


Seriously though folks I was in Aldis today, they have a selection of different forstner/step drill/mixed drill sets. And my Aldi had the 4 sided diamond stones at a reduced price of £5.99... so I brought another  

Oh, diamond files as well but I didnt have the budget left to try a set.


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## condeesteso (14 Nov 2011)

Cheap diamond 'stones' - don't have an Aldi near me. Would anyone recommend a cheap set for basic work - roughing metal off old chisels to get the primary back?, flattening stones? etc. I accept they won't be DMT standard but if they are any good at all for rough stuff, I fancy trying some. Advice welcome.


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## theartfulbodger (14 Nov 2011)

Any good to you?

http://www.powertoolsdirect.com/faithfu ... 200-x-55mm


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## chipmunk (14 Nov 2011)

I have bought several sets of cheap diamond hones and they last a few months for occassional touching up of turning tools (skews and parting tools) and slowly become less and less effective as the diamonds wear off. 

Axminster sell a set of 3...






They start off as coarse medium fine and you end up with 3 very fines ;-)

They have 4 advantages, they're clean'ish (spit rather than honing oil), don't shed grit, are always flat and are small enough to put in your pocket. 

But for heavy sharpening like flattening plane/chisel backs & primary bevels I personally wouldn't bother with 'em. Wet and dry on plate glass or a brand new flat stone would be much better and probably cheaper too.

I think the biggest problem with diamond hones is the fact that it either wears away and breaks off or reacts with the steel. I'm not sure which it is but even though I lubricate with spit every time and wipe off the swarf they never last very long.

So a bargain? I don't really think so.

Just my two penn'th
Jon


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## No skills (14 Nov 2011)

I've got an old (10 year) dmt hanging round some where (red one, 600 grit?), I havent looked at it for a long time but I remember thinking it was overpriced tat when I found out what the retail price was (didnt pay full price). Perhaps the quality has much improved over the years (anyone??) but I am currently of the opinion that if its not going to last that long then just get the cheap one.

Fwiw


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## bosshogg (14 Nov 2011)

condeesteso":17rmrdbv said:


> Cheap diamond 'stones' - don't have an Aldi near me. Would anyone recommend a cheap set for basic work - roughing metal off old chisels to get the primary back?, flattening stones? etc. I accept they won't be DMT standard but if they are any good at all for rough stuff, I fancy trying some. Advice welcome.



Bought Lidl's version of diamond sharpening things. These are metal plates with diamond sintered onto the working surface and glued to plastic strips of different colours, to identify grit...at first I thought take them back, then I decided to silicone them onto flat mahogany bases, offcuts of some skirting I had available. Have been using these for over a year now without a flaw, apart from the metal plates coming away from the plastic if I drop em, I glue em back with some PVA...perfick
Cheers...bosshogg


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## Jacob (14 Nov 2011)

I'm all for cheap tools. Not just to save money but it's good practice especially for beginners - not be frightened of wrecking them and also having to make the effort to get them working well. 
I imagine most of the worlds top performers began with simple stuff - engineers with tin bike spanners, guitarists with Woolworths ukeleles, artists with crayon and chalk, woodworkers with Woolie's tools again. It's normal. It doesn't hold anyone back.

If you want a sliding bevel the very best is also very cheap. It's the Stanley type (same design also made by Marples) with a lever lock like this one (unless they've changed the design). The clever feature of this is that the coach bolt has an octagonal nut instead of the usual square of a coach bolt. This means you can pull it out and turn it so that the lever when tightened will lie within the width of the handle and not get in the way. Just a detail but dead neat.

This is the one I just bought.


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## condeesteso (15 Nov 2011)

off-topic, but... Picasso Museum in Le Marais. He spent some time on a farm somewhere when he was still quite young. Found a hand-forged garden fork, bicycle seat and a few bits... and welded sculpture to die for. It isn't what, it's what for. And it isn't how. It's how good.


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