# Shed build



## KevB (8 Nov 2015)

Hi guys

Some of you guys may or may not know that I was planning to build a shed to mainly do my weights in and to also have a small work bench in if there's enough space. Well I eventually got round to starting it. It's a 5x2.8m shed and all framework for floor, walls and roof is from reclaimed pallet wood.






























I do realise that things haven't really been done exactly how they should be, so go easy on me  Though I'm not looking to build a mansion or anything  Just somewhere whereas I can spend an hour every other day doing my weights. Also, I'm building this within a tight budget and if I were to get 3 years out of it I'd see it as worthwhile.

We built the frame first and then concreted the base posts in afterwards. The frame as it sits isn't touching any ground below or on the outside edges. Though, it is running slightly below ground level as you reach the right hand side. I'm hoping water doesn't get below the frame and if it does, it soaks in rather than creating a massive puddle that will eventually touch the floor.

As you can see I haven't used any ground sheets..maybe I could find some gravel on the cheap and spread it over the soil?

The osb board you see is 9mm and is roughly half cut sheets. They are 2.4x1.5ft x 60 sheets and 1100x1200 x 30 sheets. All square cuts. They were advertised on gumtree and I managed to get the lot for £140. I will use these to board out all of the inside except for the floor. Maybe double them up for the outer roof as well.

With the long cuts of osb board I have, it means my studs for the walls will roughly be at 18" centres. Lots of joints but a lot cheaper than buying full boards.

Anyways that's where I'm at so far


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## artie (8 Nov 2015)

What kind of pallets did you use. The only ones I see around here have wood less than 1" thick and about 4' long.?


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## KevB (8 Nov 2015)

They are 4x2's in 2,2.5,3 and 4m lengths. I work in a sheet metal work factory and they come in regularly.


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## KevB (22 Nov 2015)

A little more progress made yesterday. In between daddy duties, the weather and getting hold of my dad on a day he isn't working, we managed to put together most of the front wall. That's my dad kindly holding the frame up btw, whilst I take a pic  

There's a few extra pieces of wood in the frame that shouldn't really be there, two of them being where the top and bottom plates are pieced together. The other pieces were put in to get the twist out of two of the studs.

I still need to add cripples above the door opening and below/above the windows, as well as adding jack studs to the windows (if I have enough wood left over).

I was wondering about the double top plate.. Is this a critical part of the wall? Say I didn't have enough wood, could I notch the rafters straight onto the single top plate?


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## Monkey Mark (22 Nov 2015)

Oh that makes me think. A mate of mine works for a company that makes large aluminium sidings. Last time I was in there doing some re-wiring for them I commented on just how nice the wood was on their pallets saying it was better than some of the stuff Ive bought in the past. I may have to get onto him.


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## KevB (27 Nov 2015)

Hi guys.

Do you think a 100mm difference between the front and back wall will give me enough of an incline for a flat sloping roof?


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## Wildman (27 Nov 2015)

more would be better depends how you intend to clad it. Snow won't slide off that easy.


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## KevB (27 Nov 2015)

Thanks for the reply mate.

With regards to the incline of the roof, what do you mean when you say it depends on how I intend to clad it?

The front of my shed internal size is 2 meters. I've measured up from the ground (left side as you look at the picture, as this is the lowest point). Once I've added the thickness of the floor framing, floor boards, rafters and roof boards to the internal size, I just fall short of the 2.5m max height. This only allows me a 100mm incline of the roof, if I want to keep the back wall internal size no lower than 1.9m.

I could have measured up from the other side of my shed, which would have gave me and extra 250mm of height to play with. Though I wasn't sure which side a potential planning inspector would measure from (as the ground slopes), so I took the safe option here.

I'm pretty happy so far with how the floor and front wall has went together, considering it's all pallet wood and has cost me nothing at all. It all feels really solid and strong. 

One regret so far is I wish I had of built the floor area closer to the 5x3m limit. I made it 5x2.8, though I've already lost 8 inches in the width of the floor because of the front and back walls which I forgot to take into account. Obviously same off of the length as well. Out of curiosity, when they say 5x3m max floor area, do they mean the walls as well or is this internal area?


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## Paul200 (28 Nov 2015)

Nice job Kev and top marks for recycling. You did the right thing measuring up from the lowest point - had to do the same with my summer house which is built on a hillside. And I'm pretty sure the maximum floor area is the overall measurement.


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## RobinBHM (28 Nov 2015)

A felted roof needs a minimum 1:80 fall, which in practice means a 1:40 fall to allow for inaccuracies and movement of rafters, felt overlaps etc. 

I bought epdm for my roof, more expensive than felt but easier to fit and less likely to leak.

I notice on ebay there are often epdm seconds that are creased or marked, you might find a piece the right size.


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## mindthatwhatouch (28 Nov 2015)

Maximum floor area is internal floor space.


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## Paul200 (28 Nov 2015)

mindthatwhatouch":l8dlwvah said:


> Maximum floor area is internal floor space.



Yep - happy to stand corrected 8) I was remembering Scottish guidelines, and for conservation areas, where they mention the footprint of a building.


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## KevB (28 Nov 2015)

Paul200":dnlusclh said:


> Nice job Kev and top marks for recycling. You did the right thing measuring up from the lowest point - had to do the same with my summer house which is built on a hillside. And I'm pretty sure the maximum floor area is the overall measurement.



Cheers mate. I'm quite enjoying trying to build this shed on the cheap  

So far I've spent a total of £61. That's £23.00 - 800 x deck/outdoor screws 4.5x75mm (used 400 so far), £30 - 6 x bags of postcrete and £8 - 56 x rubble bags to move the soil. The floor framing is complete as well as the front wall. I also have enough free wood to build the other walls and the rafters. Add in the 90 half cuts of 9mm osb I bought for £140, that's a fully framed, internally boarded and outer roof (doubled up) for £200. Not too bad  



RobinBHM":dnlusclh said:


> A felted roof needs a minimum 1:80 fall, which in practice means a 1:40 fall to allow for inaccuracies and movement of rafters, felt overlaps etc.
> 
> I bought epdm for my roof, more expensive than felt but easier to fit and less likely to leak.
> 
> I notice on ebay there are often epdm seconds that are creased or marked, you might find a piece the right size.



Ok thanks for that. Will have a look around for the epdm you mention. So does this mean I am within the minimum requirements? 1:40 at 100mm difference would take me as far as 4 meters and my shed is only 2.8 meters in width. Am I reading this correctly :roll: 



mindthatwhatouch":dnlusclh said:


> Maximum floor area is internal floor space.



Cheers for that. Suppose I could have built it around 400mm wider, though on the Brightside at least it sits pretty much flush with the front of my smaller shed and doesn't butt out into the garden more. My fence is running off at the back, which allowed me to gain width when comparing to the smaller shed.


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## Paul200 (29 Nov 2015)

KevB":1c57rbnd said:


> Cheers mate. I'm quite enjoying trying to build this shed on the cheap
> 
> So far I've spent a total of £61. That's £23.00 - 800 x deck/outdoor screws 4.5x75mm (used 400 so far), £30 - 6 x bags of postcrete and £8 - 56 x rubble bags to move the soil. The floor framing is complete as well as the front wall. I also have enough free wood to build the other walls and the rafters. Add in the 90 half cuts of 9mm osb I bought for £140, that's a fully framed, internally boarded and outer roof (doubled up) for £200. Not too bad



Love your modesty Kev :lol: Really impressive =D>


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## Noggsy (1 Dec 2015)

Looking good mate. I don't want to throw a spanner in the works, but last time I put anything up, (a few years ago), wooden buildings had to be a minimum of a metre from the fence line. I mention it because you are obviously paying heed to regs by keeping to the max roof height. I hope that rule has changed or doesn't apply in your area. Good luck with your build.

Edited:

I've just had a look at the Gov. guidelines and the only reference I can see to boundaries now, is the max height of 2.5m within 2 metres, which you've already identified.


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## tomf (3 Dec 2015)

If it's over 15 square metres then it either needs to be over 1m from the boundary or made from non combustable materials.

You also measure from the highest point of natural unaltered land, so in your case as long as you've not built up a bank with soil, you can make is 250mm taller.


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## Paul200 (3 Dec 2015)

tomf":2o0f0g1z said:


> You also measure from the highest point of natural unaltered land, so in your case as long as you've not built up a bank with soil, you can make is 250mm taller.



Yep - it's that Scottish/English thing again #-o 

4.83 When measuring the height of the development on sloping or uneven ground, the height should be measured from the lowest point immediately adjacent to the extension. (taken from Guidance on Householder permitted development rights - Scottish version)

I'll get my coat ......


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## tomf (3 Dec 2015)

Whitburn is in England init? In the north?


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## Paul200 (3 Dec 2015)

tomf":20lqeuyw said:


> Whitburn is in England init? In the north?



Yes it is - but I'm in Scotland - hence my earlier post. There's a few quite bizarre alternative rules between Scotland and the rest of the UK it seems. And this is one of them. I had to measure from the lowest point of the adjacent land on the hillside that I built on - which I thought at the time was a bit unfair. Whereas, as you point out, in the rest of the UK you measure from the highest point.


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## KevB (4 Dec 2015)

Paul200":hdjjmg22 said:


> KevB":hdjjmg22 said:
> 
> 
> > Cheers mate. I'm quite enjoying trying to build this shed on the cheap
> ...



Oops sorry, I think my excitement got the better of me (hammer)  



tomf":hdjjmg22 said:


> If it's over 15 square metres then it either needs to be over 1m from the boundary or made from non combustable materials.
> 
> You also measure from the highest point of natural unaltered land, so in your case as long as you've not built up a bank with soil, you can make is 250mm taller.



Ah thanks, that's good to know. I'm sure I've got some thicker wood, I may use this for the double top plate..to give me that little extra height.

Guys, do you think the front wall being 12mm out of square is going to cause problems? I think the cause of this is down to my amateur woodworking skills (hammer) as well as the wood being pallet wood (slightly uneven thicknesses, etc).

I'm going to start the back wall on Sunday and hopefully keep a better check on the sqaureness.


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## KevB (4 Dec 2015)

Hi again guys

I'm just thinking, does anyone have any serious concerns or constructive criticism about the ways I've approached or built this shed so far?

For instance the floor frame being attached to the sides of the posts, rather than sitting on top? Or maybe the way I've built the front wall?

I've never built anything out of wood before, other than helping my granddad and dad with odd jobs when I first left school. Though I've always had an interest in wanting to make things out of wood. When this free wood became available, I thought well why not have a go at something  

The biggest challenge I have with this project is my budget. I really don't have a lot of spare cash laying around, what with my second child on the way and I just took a mortgage out on my first home.

This in turn is the reason why I'm cutting corners..no insulation, membranes, cladding straight onto outer frame etc. Sort of a learning curve and something that I'll hopefully get at least a few years use out of. Something whereas I can say I built that and be happy with it as a first go


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## Paul200 (5 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev

I'm no expert but I'll pitch in anyway. Your floor frame looks good to me - the joining plates seem hefty enough and are probably a lot stronger than a nailed frame (like mine :? ). Nothing wrong with attaching the frame to the sides of the foundation posts - standard technique for decking and makes levelling a piece of cake. How did you attach the frame though? I would have used either coach screws or lengths of threaded rod bolted right through for a bit of strength.

You were concerned earlier about the depth of the surrounding ground and drainage. Providing your frame isn't actually touching the ground and you've allowed a bit of clearance between the two there's no need for fancy membranes :wink: or gravel (unless you want to minimise muddy splashback, in which case a layer of gravel can help).

The front frame looks OK to me but what do I know? You've built it to the size of your sheet material, which is important. Being out of square will only present problems with your internal sheet material not lining up and having to individually measure external cladding instead of cutting it all at once. Structurally I wouldn't worry - it's a shed.

Your first foray into timber construction? Well done sir 8)


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## Paul200 (5 Dec 2015)

Just one more thought - has the timber been treated against damp and insects? Probably worth doing before you get too far.


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## Alexam (5 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev, I was also wondering if the base is laid directly on the ground, without any stronger supports such as bricks etc. Also the damp protection and treatment of the timber as mentioned above?

Other than that, it looks like a great job you are doing there.

Alex


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## KevB (5 Dec 2015)

Paul200":3t5p6n13 said:


> Hi Kev
> 
> I'm no expert but I'll pitch in anyway. Your floor frame looks good to me - the joining plates seem hefty enough and are probably a lot stronger than a nailed frame (like mine :? ). Nothing wrong with attaching the frame to the sides of the foundation posts - standard technique for decking and makes levelling a piece of cake. How did you attach the frame though? I would have used either coach screws or lengths of threaded rod bolted right through for a bit of strength.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul

Thanks a lot for the reply. It's very encouraging having somebody taking an interest in my project  

Yeah mate, that's what my dad was thinking when we chose to attach the floor framework to the sides of the posts. There's was a little arguing between myself and my dad at first haha, as I was like 'the frame needs to sit on top of the posts for strength'. My dad was like 'no we should attach it to the sides and it'll be much easier to level out'. But what do I know haha, he's been doing stuff like this all of his life and with regards to my budget and what I'll be using this shed for, he seems confident in that how we've built it so far, it will be ok for my needs.

That's a very good point about the coach screws or threaded bar...thanks for that  I never really thought about it until you pointed it out. I used these long thick zinc plated screws that I took out of a large pallet. I must have had around 40 of them. I think I may be able to get some threaded bar from work as well as the nuts, so will look into that.

Yeah the framework is completely clear from all surrounding ground. It's just the posts that are making contact with the ground. Thinking back, maybe I should have treated the posts or damp proofed them? The wood that I used for the posts as well as all the frame/stud work has all been heat treated...does this give me any form of protection from the elements/insects?

Ah ok, that doesn't sound too bad about the squareness of the wall. Though, I'll try to keep it in check with the remaing walls  



Alexam":3t5p6n13 said:


> Hi Kev, I was also wondering if the base is laid directly on the ground, without any stronger supports such as bricks etc. Also the damp protection and treatment of the timber as mentioned above?
> 
> Other than that, it looks like a great job you are doing there.
> 
> Alex



Hi Alex

I dug out the holes for the posts and added some fairly large pebbles and stones to the bottom of the hole (which I dug out of the ground when I removed the earth for the frame, re-cycling everything I can here haha :mrgreen: ). Then I compacted them by hitting the post down on top of them, after this I added the postcrete around the post..mixed in with more pebbles and stones here and there. The base frame is the attached to the sides of the posts. 

The reason I'm building this shed is for somewhere to do my weights. I'm planning on having a small weights bench to one side of the shed and hopefully enough room to the other side for a small workbench and work area. 

I'd like to try out a few small projects. Few of them being a miniature picnic table for my 2 year old daughter and a gate to separate our garden from the back door step area..whereas my daughter may fall down from. I'm hoping that I'll have enough space in the shed to have a go at stuff like this  

Do you guys think there will be enough space in the shed for the reasons I mention?


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## KevB (5 Dec 2015)

Also, do you guys think I should have put a double header above the door frame? It's niggling me every time I look at it haha. I didn't do it, incase I do run out of wood..though it's making me think..


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## Paul200 (6 Dec 2015)

Know what you mean about people taking an interest. I was so glad of the help that came my way on a recent project - I learned a lot.

Although you used chunky screws to attach the frame to the posts I think, if it was me, I'd be happier knowing that there was something a bit more heavy duty holding you and your weights up :wink: Threaded bar or coach screws will make all the difference.

Heat treated timber is more stable and possibly more resistant to rot but I don't think it will stop anything making a meal of it in the future - the bugs will just need a drink to wash it down! Much like the threaded rod - it's a job that's easily done now and will significantly protect all your hard work. It is an extra expense but in the scheme of things it's minimal for the benefits it will give.

When I built my summer house I didn't run a second header around the structure (too tight to buy more timber!) but I really wish I had now. Especially as the roof timbers on one side don't all sit exactly over an upright. This hasn't been an issue (yet?) and there is additional support for the roof timbers from a purlin about 1m back from the edge, but all the same it still bugs me that I didn't do it. Even though I'm confident that it will be OK, it's the sort of thing that could give me a massive headache if it does go wrong (and I haven't had any snow on it yet :? ). So what I think I'm trying to say is you should try to do now, while it's easy, all the things you think you might get away with not doing - because if you don't you could regret it big time in the future. I would double head at least your front wall, even if you don't do the rest. It's one of the things I've added to my list of 'People have been doing it this way for centuries so why should I know any better' stuff.

We all enjoy a good WIP and this one has caught my imagination because of the recycling aspect. I'm sure others on here with far more experience will also contribute. Great job so far Kev. Looking forward to updates.


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## KevB (6 Dec 2015)

Paul200":3ggbk53i said:


> Know what you mean about people taking an interest. I was so glad of the help that came my way on a recent project - I learned a lot.
> 
> Although you used chunky screws to attach the frame to the posts I think, if it was me, I'd be happier knowing that there was something a bit more heavy duty holding you and your weights up :wink: Threaded bar or coach screws will make all the difference.
> 
> ...



Hi mate

Yeah it's very encouraging when people reply and offer me advice or compliments on my work :mrgreen: I'm learning all the time with this project and the advice on here is great.

Do you know what I need to look for with regards to treatment? I haven't a clue haha, is it that green stuff?

Yeah, I was going to miss out the second top plate as I didn't think I'd have enough wood. I'm definitely going to add one now though as I've pretty much built the two biggest parts (front and back) and it looks like I have quite a bit wood left. Need to keep 11 lengths for the rafters though..so need to stay on the ball with that . I was more specifically worried about the door frame itself. I should have put a double header above it as I'm worried that it may bow with the weight of the roof. I may still add one at a later date, though it means taking the cripple studs back out.

Ha I think that's probably the most enjoyable thing about..the fact I'm building it on the cheap. Nobody likes spending money, unless they have to, right? :mrgreen: 

Anyways my dad is poorly and couldn't make it today, so I decided to have a go at building the back wall on my own.. Just need to add the noggins, then on to the sides.

















I'm pretty happy with it so far and only 5mm out of square this time :mrgreen: 






The picture above shows were the ground banks away underneath the left hand side of the shed. The people who lived here before us had a small shed sitting on this side and it had sunk a little at one side. Do you guys think I should put some paving slabs under this section, so as if it does start to sink here, it will spread the weight, touch the slabs and maybe slow it down or stop it all together? 






This last picture shows were I've temporarily pinned back the soil/grass. It was starting to give way and fall under the shed when I was walking around the frame. I just used some wooden boards and managed to get some steel box section from work which I hammered into the ground to hold the boards into place. 

So far so good (I think :roll: ). I'm pretty chuffed that I managed that wall by myself hehe :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (7 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev

There are loads of different products available. The last lot I bought to treat the roof timbers in our old house cost about £65 for 10 litres of concentrate and a pump spray gun - but that was serious industrial stuff that saved me a lot of money by doing it myself. Something like this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lumberjack-Tr ... Sw0e9Ur5Z0 would do if your putting it on by brush. Have a look around on Google or even a builders merchant maybe?

I wouldn't worry about possible sinking until it happens - and it probably won't. And holding the soil and grass back like that is a good move.

Still going well Kev. Hope your Dad feels better now.

Cheers

Paul


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## KevB (7 Dec 2015)

Thanks mate. He's getting tested for strokes tomorrow so I've been worried lately, I'm hoping he's going to be ok.

Ok thanks for that link, I'll have a look around and see what I can find. I'm definitely going to treat the wood now as it's not really water that I fear but the insects (hammer).

I've been looking at threaded bar. Do you think m12 is thick enough? It's only around £2.50 a meter on toolstation and zinc plated. 

With regards to the possibilities of sinking. I was thinking if I were to put the slabs in now, I could get them right in and under the floor frame, whereas I wouldn't have this access when the shed floor is down.. But I don't know.. my dad doesn't think it should sink. It's probably the worst thing that could happen if it does though haha.

On another note. There's a factory across the road from where I work and it has been used as a builders storage. The firm has went bust and the guy there has been clearing out loads of building materials. A lot free, some for a small cost.

I managed to get 2 full sheets of 75mm kingspan today. They are damaged (nearly ripped in half and warped a little) but usable I think. Also a few thinner sheets (25-30mm and a bit damaged again). All for free and hoping I can use them towards insulating the shed. He also gave me to brand new packs of 100mm isover insulation..i can't use this on sheds though can I?

As well as that, he gave me 4 brand new internal doors still in the plastic :mrgreen: 

There's also quite a bit of brand new wood there that has to go tomorrow. I offered him £20 and arranged to pick it up. He didn't want anything at first, but I felt guilty and had to offer him something :mrgreen: The wood includes 4x2 lengths that I could use for my rafters. As well as brand new (top of the stair) rails that i'm going to try and convert into decking rails. Do you think that wood would be suitable if I treated it for outdoors?

Anyways hope to make some more progress at the weekend, fingers crossed the weather is ok  

Oh nearly forgot.. that kingspan I got. I watched somebody else carry around 40 brand new sheets of it into a lorry. The guy told me later that if I had of popped over last week I could have had it as he had payed next to nothing for it..was nearly crying haha (hammer) anyways I got his scraps and a freebie is a freebie heyho :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (8 Dec 2015)

M12 bar is spot on Kev. You're better placed to know whether or not sinking is an option - if it bothers you then you should slide some slabs under and support the frame on timber laid on a piece of DPC or slate. It shouldn't go anywhere then as you're spreading the load over a wider area.

Bad luck on the Kingspan - well done on the timber! Nothing like that will ever happen to me because there's no-one else here!

EDIT - Just seen your question about Isover insulation too. If it's rockwool type insulation you can use it but it would need to be behind a fancy membrane otherwise it gets soggy and doesn't do it's job.


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## KevB (8 Dec 2015)

Well it turns out it wasn't such a good day after all..

Another builder came today and took all of the good wood, leaving me with all of his scraps...bent and warped. I still gave him 20 quid though as I ended up with 6 brand new doors, some insulation and other straighter lengths of thinner wood..nothing that can be used on the shed though. Still it may come in handy for small projects when my shed is built. The two best lengths of wood I did get were 4x4 treated at 4.8m each length..which will come in really handy for my decking plans in the spring 

Ok Paul that's good to hear about the bar. I already have the nuts..so just the bar to buy. 

Is this ok? http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p78151 If I did decide to do the slabs/timber thingy with the frame.

With regards to the rockwool idea. Do you mean put the membrane internally behind the osb board and in front of the rockwool? Or between the outer cladding and rockwool? This seems cheap enough to do the shed walls http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p21675


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## Paul200 (8 Dec 2015)

How did your Dad's tests go? Hopefully good news.

The DPC is the right thing but you won't need much. Does your builders yard over the road have anything? Any heavy duty plastic that's UV stable will do. It's just to stop the damp working it's way up into the timber.

With the rockwool you need to wrap the entire building in a breathable membrane, batten over the top and attach the cladding to the battens. This gives you a ventilated air gap so that any moisture that gets through dries out and doesn't get into the building. The rockwool then goes inside the membrane and the OSB inside that. Have a look at 'Build a shed Mike's way' at the head of this section - a brilliant read and stuffed full of useful info. I referred to it all the time when I built my summer house.


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## Woodchips2 (8 Dec 2015)

Enjoying this thread Kev and it's great to see you recycling so much. =D> 

As a guide to what you are saving this 16'x10' workshop from Waltons http://www.waltons.co.uk/waltons-ground ... shop-16x10 costs £1,280 delivered and the framing is just 2"x 1". (hammer) 

Are you likely to be dropping heavy weights on the floor? If you are maybe thick about strengthening the floor in that area.

Regards Keith


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## KevB (8 Dec 2015)

Paul200":18ppss8x said:


> How did your Dad's tests go? Hopefully good news.
> 
> The DPC is the right thing but you won't need much. Does your builders yard over the road have anything? Any heavy duty plastic that's UV stable will do. It's just to stop the damp working it's way up into the timber.
> 
> With the rockwool you need to wrap the entire building in a breathable membrane, batten over the top and attach the cladding to the battens. This gives you a ventilated air gap so that any moisture that gets through dries out and doesn't get into the building. The rockwool then goes inside the membrane and the OSB inside that. Have a look at 'Build a shed Mike's way' at the head of this section - a brilliant read and stuffed full of useful info. I referred to it all the time when I built my summer house.



Thanks for asking Paul. I mixed the dates up, it's actually tomorrow for his scans. He seemed ok earlier when he picked my wood up for me. Hopefully it will be something that can be treated so we can get him back to health again.

We do have plastic at work that we use to put in road signs. It is made to withstand the outdoors so maybe this would be suitable? I could ask my boss if I could have a few offcuts and cut them to size on the guillotine at work. The builders is all cleared out now, so that's the end of that freebie outlet haha  

Ok mate, will have a look at mikes thread for ideas. So is it cladding, battens, membrane, rockwool, osb board? Or is there another membrane between the rockwool and osb? I think two membranes is starting to trigger my budget alarm haha..so hoping it's just the one.



Woodchips2":18ppss8x said:


> Enjoying this thread Kev and it's great to see you recycling so much. =D>
> 
> As a guide to what you are saving this 16'x10' workshop from Waltons http://www.waltons.co.uk/waltons-ground ... shop-16x10 costs £1,280 delivered and the framing is just 2"x 1". (hammer)
> 
> ...



Hi Keith

Thanks for taking an interest mate. I'm really enjoying it so far, it's like a mini challenge for me working to a budget. And if everything goes ok I should end up with a half decent shed for a lot less than it would cost to buy one outright  

Wow that's a thin frame on that shed :shock: When I first thought of the idea of making this shed with as much recycled or freebies as possible. I had an original target of £500 all in. Though now I think i'd be happy to go over that by say a hundred or two. At first I was just going to make the walls really basic..cladding, frame and osb. I'm now thinking that if I can have a look around for cheap insulation here and there I may as well insulate it as well. I have a while yet before i'm certain i'll be insulating it or not...so some time to look around.

Then there's electrics..two double sockets, strip light, armoured cable, internal cable etc, I haven't even looked into the cost of this yet, meaning the costs could go up even higher. Still going to be quite a bit cheaper than buying one of those ready built sheds and hopefully mine will be stronger as well  

I'll need to start looking for cladding soon. If I can find something for around £200 i'd be a happy man...that's going to be quite a challenge though haha  

The weights are quite heavy what I use. Probs be around 150-200kg in there as well as my bench. I do take care when lifting them and moving them around, lowering them gently to the ground etc. This was another reason why I wanted to add the slabs, as this is the area where the weights will be. I'll keep an eye out in this area and thanks for heads up


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## KevB (12 Dec 2015)

Hey guys

Does anyone have any tips to prevent cladding from shrinking and moving apart? I've read a few stories of this happening and it doesn't sound good (hammer) 

I'm unsure as to which way to go with the outside. Looking at some pics on Google, batten and board type finish can look quite good..though I'm guessing this will probably be a more expensive option?


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## Woodchips2 (12 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev, I've built sheds clad in feather edged boarding and shiplap. I've found feather edged to be the easiest to put up and the least trouble with shrinkage causing gaps. An old professional shed builder who built sheds out of oak told me to use just one nail per fixing across the width of the board which is then hidden by the next board and it seemed to work.

Regards Keith


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## Paul200 (13 Dec 2015)

+1 for featheredge or plain weatherboard. Here's a link to Mike Garnham's workshop build - section on nailing these boards. http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=250
This is the method I used on my Sitooterie - makes a lot of sense with regard to shrinkage and the crucifix spacers save a hell of a lot of time. And you don't have to grow an extra arm :lol:


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## KevB (13 Dec 2015)

Ok thanks for the advice Keith and Paul  

I had a look online for weatherboard in and around the sunderland/Newcastle area, though it all seems to be shiplap/loglap. I'll have another look around and see if I can find any. Sounds like a great tip using just the one nail, I checked out that link Paul and it all makes perfect sense using this method.

Well I managed to make a little more progress today..











Nearly completed the two sides and I only managed to get them perfectly square :mrgreen: Just the rest of the noggins to add and the sloped sections at the top. 






That's the insulation I got for free  






Does anyone have any idea what shade that might be on the fence? I think they used the same on the shed even though it looks different. I could ask my neighbour but I don't like to bother them. I quite like it and i'd possibly paint my two sheds and fences with it..


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## KevB (14 Dec 2015)

Hey guys

Could any of you experienced shed builders give me some quick advice about these doors..






They are heavy duty shed doors (x2) measuring 6 1/2 feet x 2 1/2 feet. Do you think I could modify/cut them to suit my door size? The opening I have on my shed is 6ft x 4ft. Maybe keep one at the original width and cut the height to suit, then cut the other on both dimensions, leaving me with a big door and smaller door? Or modify both equally to fit m shed?

Could it be done or would I be wasting my money?

Any advice would be great guys as is a good deal for both doors..


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## Paul200 (14 Dec 2015)

Depending on the price I expect both could be rebuilt to your sizes for a fraction of the cost of new. Have a good look and see if you think they can be taken apart (or if it's 'sight unseen' ask the question).

Cheers

Paul

PS. Or change the size of your door opening??


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## Woodchips2 (14 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev
If the price was right I'd consider modifying them but I'm a cheapskate :lol: Could you cut 3" off the top and bottom and still leave enough room so the ledges don't foul the door frame? 

I'd keep one door at 2'6" and reduce the other to 1'6" aiming to have the wider leaf for general entry and exit. If you had two equal widths 2'0" isn't a very wide door if you are carrying stuff in and out.

Just as an aside but why did you make the door opening 6'0" high? It's OK for shorties like me but a pain in the head if you have tall visitors :roll: 

Regards Keith


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## KevB (15 Dec 2015)

Thanks guys for the speedy advice.

I think the opening is actually over 6 feet Keith, I can't remember exactly what it is..though I'm only 5.9 and I probably won't have many visitors taking an interest in my shed haha :mrgreen: Yeah that's what I'm thinking mate, a big door and smaller one, that way I only have to fully modify one of the doors.

I could change the door opening Paul, it's definitely an option..though knowing my luck i'd probably run into problems taking things out and re-arranging them :roll: 

They only £15 for the pair and I may go have a look at them this weekend, if my dads up for bringing his van over.

I have a few questions about the membrane..

With the floor, could I lay it straight onto the framework, sandwiching the floor boards on top? With regards to insulating the floor, I can't decide yet as I can't see it being a cheap option . Somebody was selling something like 80 square meters of double foiled bubblewrap for £30, I wish I had of bought it now and it would at least have been something to put in the floor (hammer) 

Same with the roof - rafters, dpm, boards?

If I were to buy the 15x4 meter dpm from toolstation, how should I start wrapping the shed with it? Should I roll it up and over the roof and down the other side? Or wrap it around the walls as far as it'll go? Shed being 5x2.8 meters. Hmm actually I think that's a stupid question now that I think about it (hammer) I wouldn't be able to wrap it over the roof as the overhanging rafters would be in the way. Need to put some more thought into this..you can probably tell i'm trying to think of the cheapest way to cover it all ha


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## Paul200 (16 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev

Not sure about bubblewrap under floors - will the bubbles burst? Not sure - maybe someone else knows.

If you're going to insulate your shed walls then the OSB panels on the inside will be sufficient for an impermeable barrier. You could install a plastic membrane immediately behind the OSB but this would be overkill. If insulating then you will need a breather membrane (not DPM) wrapped around the outside of the walls, over the insulation, and then battens over that to take the cladding material. This gives an air gap to ventilate the cladding. Check out Mike Garnham's workshop build - there are sectional drawings near the beginning that show the order of things.

There are loads of different breather membranes on the market. The one everyone's heard of is Tyvek - I used something called Ventia on my Sitooterie. This can also be used as a roofing membrane.

A DPM below your floor is a good idea, although I'm not sure it's totally necessary on a suspended floor - others could help here perhaps? I packed polystyrene insulation between my floor joists before I laid a DPM and the OSB but in my case I needed a DPM for a barrier between the decking and the floor, which share the same joists. If you do put a DPM down don't do it until your roof is on - if it rains you end up with a paddling pool full of OSB and no way for it to drain! (Don't ask me how I know this :?  )

Hope this helps. You could do far worse than to take good long look at Mike's workshop WIP - I found it invaluable.

Cheers

Paul


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## KevB (16 Dec 2015)

Paul200":3o4274zx said:


> Hi Kev
> 
> Not sure about bubblewrap under floors - will the bubbles burst? Not sure - maybe someone else knows.
> 
> ...



Hi Paul  

I was thinking maybe pin it inside the frame somehow? Though I think the guy has sold it now (hammer) 

Ok mate, i'll check out those membranes you mention, with any luck i'll find a good deal on something. Say I used kingspan type insulation, do you think there's another way to bypass the battern/membrane? Could I fix some sort of stops to the insides of the studs to stop the insulation being pushed too far in and up against the cladding? Would this in turn leave me the air gap I need? Or would I still need to use the membrane to protect the insulation? I don't think I mind using the batten/membrane idea if it turns out to be quite critical. For what the shed is and how little I will probably use it (with all these babies haha)..i'm trying to weigh up the cost versus how far to go with this shed..

Here's a few pics of the insulation I've managed to scavenge so far.. :mrgreen: 












I got those sheets free. They are damaged but useable I think.






I very nice chap has just dropped these offcuts off for me. I payed £20 for them which I'm very happy about as there are quite a few and I should be able to fill a fair few studs with them..or maybe even towards the floor.

I'm hoping to crack on with some more work on Saturday and will post some more pics. Hope i'm not boring you guys with my cheapskate approach to shed building :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (17 Dec 2015)

I've wondered about just using foil wrapped insulation with no membrane myself. A few strategically placed screws would stop it moving out of place and give the cladding room to breath. I suppose there's the danger of moisture getting in behind the insulation and having nowhere to go - worth the risk? You would need to somehow ventilate the ventilation area though - with the cladding simply nailed directly onto the frame you create a sealed unit. I've got this problem - I'm retro-fitting insulation to a cheap and nasty shed. I drilled lots of holes along the top and bottom of the cladding and fixed bug mesh on the inside of them, but the breather membrane sits on the bottom rail of the frame - if any moisture runs down there's nowhere for it to go. It's just a shed so I'm taking the risk but it's not ideal and you have the option of doing it properly - providing you can find the battens at the right price ;-)


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## Paul200 (17 Dec 2015)

Oh, and I'm not bored! I love a challenge. And it's called recycling (which is to be applauded) - not cheapskate


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## KevB (17 Dec 2015)

Paul200":3qetypo0 said:


> I've wondered about just using foil wrapped insulation with no membrane myself. A few strategically placed screws would stop it moving out of place and give the cladding room to breath. I suppose there's the danger of moisture getting in behind the insulation and having nowhere to go - worth the risk? You would need to somehow ventilate the ventilation area though - with the cladding simply nailed directly onto the frame you create a sealed unit. I've got this problem - I'm retro-fitting insulation to a cheap and nasty shed. I drilled lots of holes along the top and bottom of the cladding and fixed bug mesh on the inside of them, but the breather membrane sits on the bottom rail of the frame - if any moisture runs down there's nowhere for it to go. It's just a shed so I'm taking the risk but it's not ideal and you have the option of doing it properly - providing you can find the battens at the right price ;-)



Hi mate

I was thinking about making some small L shaped galv brackets at work, then fixing them in and around every stud/noggin. If the insulation was 75mm thick max, i'd fix the brackets at that depth, then push the insulation up against them, leaving a 25mm gap behind for some air to move around. Then fix the outer cladding straight to the frame. Like you say though, this may not be enough to allow sufficient ventilation..

This way, i'd do away with the breathable membrane which i'm thinking will cost too much on my budget. Unless something comes up on gumtree :roll:

As of the kingspan I've collected so far, I reckon I'm close to having enough to do the floor. (using the galv bracket idea). Do you think this would be a good idea to keep it for the floor rather than parts of the walls? 

I'm hoping to have the walls stood up and fixed together over the Christmas, as well as the rafters in place. Meaning I have to make a decision on whether or not the cladding is fixed straight to the framework :roll: The roof as well, I was going to double up that osb board I bought, which would take it to 18mm, then felt on top of that. The rubber stuff is too expensive from what I can see. Would you agree Paul that the way I want to fix the cladding and the roof will probably do the job for at least a few years or is it too difficult to predict? haha :mrgreen: 

As soon as I have a certain plan with the cladding and roof, then I can pretty much make it water tight enough to get the floor in etc..

The other way is to cover the whole shed in membrane and add battens, as we've discussed. Allowing me to fill the walls with a mix of cheaper rockwool and/or whatever kingspan I can collect..

Hmm it's quite a challenge working to a tight budget, but i'm sure i'll eventually end up with a shed i'm happy with :mrgreen: 

Thanks mate, I hope it helps other to take a few ideas when on a budget, especially the pallet wood if you can get hold of any decent ones


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## Paul200 (17 Dec 2015)

Kev - can I just say - if I wasn't so far away I'd be there giving you a hand. Always up for helping someone who's willing to give it a go despite having no experience (with all respect).

Your roof plan sounds good - I'm going to do the same thing with my shed roof. No ventilation gap - the felt keeps the moisture out, in my opinion, providing you maintain it.

Your wall brackets also sound OK. So long as there's a gap of some kind between the insulation and the cladding that's half the battle. Like I said earlier, it's not ideal but it's making the best of what's available.

If it was me I would insulate the walls and ceiling before worrying about the floor. But that's me. I'm no scientist but I think the air blowing around the building is more likely to lower the temperature than the ground is. Your shout though (and I'm open to being shown the way by someone who knows about these things).

Interesting that your post has had over 1900 people look but very few contributions. Either you've got it spot on mate - or we're buggered :lol:


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## KevB (19 Dec 2015)

Hi guys

Haha yeah Paul it's quite a distance to travel :mrgreen: Luckily enough my dad has been feeling better lately and came to lend a hand today. 

Yeah the good thing about the galv brackets is I can get them made free, either from mine or my brothers work. I may still go down the membrane/batten route..though will decide closer to the time. I had a quick look on ebay for breathable membranes and I guess they aren't overly expensive, but still an added expense to what is originally a low budget project.

Ok that sounds good about the insulation. I do prefer to put it in the walls, hopefully i'll be able to collect enough to do the walls and floor with it  

Well I hope it is that I have got it spot on mate and i'm not boring people with low cost ways and means :mrgreen: 

I managed to make some good progress today..
















I only managed to get the walls stood up and fixed together, with the help of my dad  I wasn't planning on putting them together today, but my dad was available for a few hours so I thought why not. I'm not sure if I should have had some dpc under the walls..but its too late now. I also wanted to put the threaded bar through the posts/floor frame, I cant get access to them though because of the extra pieces of wood I put in for the floor to sit on. There's also galv brackets screwed to the posts and frame that are in the way. I'm going to have another look at it tomorrow and see what I can do, at the very least i'll add more screws.






Started putting some of the noggins in.






And these are the doors for £15 that I mentioned. I'm happy with them as they are solid doors with decent locks and hinges. I'm going to widen the door opening as you suggested Paul  Just need to trim some off the top and maybe the bottom and then they are good to go. One of them obviously needs flipped as well. 

If I wanted to keep both locks on the doors. How would I go about this, if I also wanted to have the centre frame post removable for wider access? 

Anyways that's where it's at so far. I'm pleased with it as it has fixed together really well. It seems to be sitting pretty square and seems like a pretty solid frame so far


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## mindthatwhatouch (19 Dec 2015)

Ask at any local building sites for their insulation and wood offcuts, you may get lucky.
Toolstation does a reasonably cheap membrane.
If going for some rainscreen type cladding (shiplap, featheredge) leave a 25mm gap between cladding and membrane.


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## KevB (21 Dec 2015)

mindthatwhatouch":3tfxxuqr said:


> Ask at any local building sites for their insulation and wood offcuts, you may get lucky.
> Toolstation does a reasonably cheap membrane.
> If going for some rainscreen type cladding (shiplap, featheredge) leave a 25mm gap between cladding and membrane.



Hi mate

Yeah I've been thinking about asking around building sites, if I can find the courage to do so (hammer) 

I keep thinking that there must be skips all over the place with kingspan offcuts in, that otherwise would just be going to waste. Are there any builders/site workers on here that have had people asking for insulation offcuts etc? What's the general view of this...are you a nice bunch? :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (23 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev. That's some progress - fair play. I haven't been ignoring you - our phone line's been taken out by a fallen tree and we've not been able to get online for 5 days! Busy playing catch up at the moment so just thought I'd look in and see where you were at. Looking good mate. :lol: (hammer) =D>


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## KevB (23 Dec 2015)

Paul200":t6wpjdge said:


> Hi Kev. That's some progress - fair play. I haven't been ignoring you - our phone line's been taken out by a fallen tree and we've not been able to get online for 5 days! Busy playing catch up at the moment so just thought I'd look in and see where you were at. Looking good mate. :lol: (hammer) =D>



Thanks mate  

Ah bummer, there's nothing worse than losing your internet (hammer) Glad you back online now.

The next job is to prepare the rafters and get them fixed into place. My plan is to mark out and cut the first one, then use this as a template. Hopefully i'll manage the notching ok without any problems. 

I'm a little concerned about the slope (or lack of) of the roof. I'm going to add another top plate to the front wall to give me that little extra incline. This will just about take me to the 2.5m limit. The back wall will have to do without the double top plate :roll: 

I can't afford epdm, luckily enough we don't get much snow though as we live near the sea. With any luck there will be just enough of a slope to allow the rain to flow away.


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## mindthatwhatouch (23 Dec 2015)

KevB":3b2vc5t9 said:



> mindthatwhatouch":3b2vc5t9 said:
> 
> 
> > Ask at any local building sites for their insulation and wood offcuts, you may get lucky.
> ...



Don't have to have much courage, Just find the site agent, be polite and ask, remember they have to pay to dispose of the stuff. Doesn't have to be a big site, just keep an eye out for local extensions/loft conversions etc. Every building project I have been on has binned perfectly good timber and insulation (most contractors are happy if someone can make use of it)
Also check the local free ads/classifieds, If you are in no hurry you will soon build up a collection of PIR Boards.


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Dec 2015)

If you use loads of bits and pieces of Kingspan (or similar) you can effectively join them up with aerosol polyurethane foam so long as you're careful not to blow the stuff apart. Just sort of dot and dab it til it's fixed then fill all the gaps.


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## KevB (26 Dec 2015)

[/quote]Don't have to have much courage, Just find the site agent, be polite and ask, remember they have to pay to dispose of the stuff. Doesn't have to be a big site, just keep an eye out for local extensions/loft conversions etc. Every building project I have been on has binned perfectly good timber and insulation (most contractors are happy if someone can make use of it)
Also check the local free ads/classifieds, If you are in no hurry you will soon build up a collection of PIR Boards.[/quote]

Ok mate cheers for that. I've been keeping my eyes peeled out and about over the Christmas period and I've come across a few local loft and roof conversions. I may take the daughter out for a walk one day and pay them a visit, see if I can catch them working on the job  



phil.p":112tsoqb said:


> If you use loads of bits and pieces of Kingspan (or similar) you can effectively join them up with aerosol polyurethane foam so long as you're careful not to blow the stuff apart. Just sort of dot and dab it til it's fixed then fill all the gaps.



Good tip Phil. I was just going to cut and pack it as neat and as tight as possible, though if my joints are all off, i'll definitely be considering this 






The above pic is of some wood I was hoping to use for the rafters. It's new wood, not pallet wood, though it's slightly twisted and/or bowed. As you can see I layed them all out on the floor of my shed yesterday. I then placed some weight on them and made sure they are all sitting pretty flat at the far side. The twists are generally to this near side.

It has rained quite heavily for the past 24hrs on them (since this pic) and this morning I added more weight to the far side, moved the weight from the middle slightly closer to the near side and then added two more slabs to the near side, directly on top of the twists.

My thinking to this was if I allowed the wood to be soaked and manipulated the weight over a few days that it may reduce the twists in the wood. Do you guys think this is possible to achieve this way or am I wasting my time? (hammer)


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## KevB (30 Dec 2015)

A little update..






Rafters in. Decided to use pallet wood as it's much straighter than the twisted new wood I had. 






Finished pretty much all of the noggins to the walls. Still need to fill the triangles in on the sides as well as the noggins in the roof.






Distant shot to get an idea of scale.






Notches for the threaded bar to tie the walls together. Can't get into the back right hand corner with the threaded bar as I can't get a drill in to make the holes. The fence is in the way externally and the studs are in the way internally (hammer) Don't know what to do with that corner :roll: 











Tried the doors in. The doors are off centre as it's a temporary frame tacked in to see what they looked like. The final frame is now in and is much thicker. 

My dad has persuaded me to get rid of the centre post that I quite liked. He said there's no need for it. I was planning on fixing it to the right hand door, so as it opens with the door. His way is to have a flap on the left door that overlaps the right door. The left door is then locked into the right door, with the right door being bolted to the floor and roof internally.

Tomorrow we're starting the cladding. I went for feather edge and it cost £200 for the lot. Cheap stuff but I hope not too cheap (hammer) :mrgreen: 

This leads to another argument we've been having. As some of you guys suggest, I suggested 1 nail per board and he's saying no it's 2. I done a little investigating on google and it seems they both have pros and cons. One nail giving room for expansion/contraction and two nails stopping the boards curling out. 

Considering it's cheap stuff and quite thin from what my dad is telling me (I haven't seen it yet), I think I'm edging towards two nails. What do you guys think?


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## Paul200 (31 Dec 2015)

Hi Kev

It's your shout on nailing the featheredge, but I would only use one nail.

Quote from Mike Garnham - 
Grandmother and egg-sucking time..........but it is worth re-iterating. One nail per board per counterbatten. That nail should be about 30/ 35mm up from the bottom (assuming a 25mm board overlap), so that the top board holds the top edge of the lower board, but still allows it to expand and contract with the seasons without splitting. I have seen boards nailed top and bottom, and I have seen them nailed too close to the bottom edge so that the nail goes through both boards. Both are big mistakes. Here is how it should be:




The nail is so close to the bottom edge that it will prevent the board curling. The only tip I can give is to go easy when putting the nails in. I used a gas nailgun on 19mm plain boards (not featheredge) and if the placement of the nail was even slightly too high it sometimes cracked the board along its length.

You've been busy again! Whatever you choose, good luck


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## KevB (31 Dec 2015)

Hi Paul

Thanks for your latest reply, it actually played a part today, mid way through cladding.  

Though we had already nailed one side into place (the wrong way to what is advised on here). There is currently only one nail in the first side, but in the wrong place. It's at the top of every board. Going by my dads way, I had the intension of adding the second nail afterwards. Then...

..I had a toilet break and checked my phone to see if anybody had replied to my thread. Although I had already known about Mikes way to do it, I sort of understood/read it wrong doh (hammer). I didn't think it through properly and didn't realise how one nail was going to stop (my cheap choice of cladding) curling up. Then it hit me, the nail was in the wrong position. I was too concerned about hiding the nail to realise that it should be at the bottom (hammer) 

Anyways, the second side has been done as mike describes. Question now is, do I leave the one nail in the first side, or add a second where it should be?

A few pics from today..






It's cheap stuff, but I mean it looks ok to me and hopefully it'll do what it's supposed to do. I'm hoping it'll stain ok as well. Full of knots and quite weathered looking, but (I think) I kind of like that look to fit in with my garden/other shed..rather than brand spanking more expensive cladding.






Some of the bolts went in today. M8 bar, with a 13mm nyloc nut.

All in all I'm pleased with how this is going. I have missed things out (after much consideration), like batterns/gap, membrane, wood protection etc. It's a risk I'm willing to take though and a lesson learned if and when I decide to build another shed on a higher budget.  

Just a quick question on electrics (thinking ahead here :mrgreen: ) Anybody who knows anything about this area know roughly how much it would cost to set up two double sockets and a strip light? I'm guessing I need an armoured cable for this?

Thanks again Paul. I'm enjoying it, though I do keep arguing with my dad haha. Sometimes he is right, sometimes I am right..i think it's just a dad/son thing (hammer) :mrgreen:


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## KevB (31 Dec 2015)

Once the feather edge is completed the total cost so far is £284 ccasion5:


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## Paul200 (1 Jan 2016)

Happy New Year Kev!


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## KevB (1 Jan 2016)

Paul200":1vepiyxv said:


> Happy New Year Kev!



Happy new year mate, hope you had a good one ccasion5: 

Enjoyed a nice quite one in this year, with the pregnant mrs and a Chinese :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (2 Jan 2016)

:wink: Too good, I think! Did you notice the time I posted that :? Life in the old dog yet! :lol: :lol: 

Well impressed with your cost so far - and the fact that it's mostly recycled is even better. Well done.


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## KevB (2 Jan 2016)

Paul200":21hatslq said:


> :wink: Too good, I think! Did you notice the time I posted that :? Life in the old dog yet! :lol: :lol:
> 
> Well impressed with your cost so far - and the fact that it's mostly recycled is even better. Well done.



Cheers mate  

Haha yeah I did notice and I was thinking you must have been partying :mrgreen: 

Managed to get some more of the cladding on the front today. I've only done the sides, part of the back and a little around the front and I can't move the shed at all when trying to rock it 8) 

I need to start thinking about what's going to go on the roof..

I've got the boards, just need something to waterproof it. What do you guys think is my best option on a £50-100 budget?

Just out of curiosity, I priced epdm and for the size of my roof, it would cost £140. Can this be fixed to the roof without gluing it? Stretched and sandwiched between the facia/eging of the shed..?

Well that's be done now until next weekend, think I've done around 4 days on it over the hols, so I guess the wife has been generous :mrgreen:


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## KevB (10 Jan 2016)

Starting to come together :mrgreen: 

Fixed a temporary cover to the roof. It has really made a big difference as it allows me to get on with other things under cover, whilst I wait for my dad to become available to help me with the roof.

Very happy with it so far and it's a nice little space inside. I'm now thinking about getting rid of my other shed and building another one in it's place, the same depth and height as this one, as well as gaining a foot or so in length. I'll put my weights bench in that and keep this one for my little projects :mrgreen:


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## Paul200 (11 Jan 2016)

Wow! Some progress there! Looks great Kev.

Don't know anything about EPDM but I've seen it has been used by a few people on here. That price sounds good and I doubt if good quality mineral felt would be much cheaper. Hopefully someone will be along to tell you how to install it


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## KevB (11 Jan 2016)

My mate said today, when I showed him a picture, that it looked like a pigeon coop [-( (hammer) hahaha :mrgreen: 

Hopefully it'll look a bit more 'un-coop' like once I've stained it :mrgreen:


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## KevB (15 Jan 2016)

Hi guys

I'm a little stuck for ideas with the windows and doors, can anyone help me out..?

Windows - I have 6mm thick plastic cut to size. At first I was thinking of making windows that open, though now that I've thought about it, I don't think they are necessary. Should I just mitre another slaters lath frame inside the opening, then another lath frame inside and behind, sandwiching the plastic in between? I have enough plastic to double up, would this be a good idea to take it to 12mm? Or should I be using some other sort of wooden framing?

Doors - I have two solid doors and they are painted black. Do you think I need to sand these right back? I'm not sure of my options here. I was thinking about painting the doors, all of the shed trim, window trims and maybe even facia boards all a slightly different colour/shade to the stain on the feather edge. Do you guys reckon this would work?

This way, by painting the doors, I wouldn't have to sand them bare. Is there a paint that would go with a (eg - dark/medium brown) stain?

Could really do with some advice on this as I don't want to end up with a massive eyesore of a shed (hammer) :mrgreen: 

There's a short video here and I quite like this colour..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1stYB5_yR5k

Is there any reason why I wouldn't get the same finish/colour on my feather edge as the guy in this vid?


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## Paul200 (16 Jan 2016)

Paint/stain it whatever colours you want mate. A painted door and windows would look nice - that's what we did on our summer house. Didn't stain the cladding because it was well treated beforehand - will probably give it a spray with something clear later on - we like the natural look. I've used that brown stain before and it does the job, didn't seem to last very long though and once you've done it, and it then wears off in patches, you have to keep going over with the same stuff. That's why I prefer a clear treatment. Although you could argue that you will never know if the clear stuff has worn off 

Not sure about doubling the plastic on the windows. If it's not proper double glazing it will just be a moisture trap. The method sounds good though.

Cheers

Paul


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## blackrodd (16 Jan 2016)

Mitres aren't usually used as you have done with you're window framing, as the mitres tend to shrink, most at the "feather end leaving gaps for the rain to get in and several other reasons.
I would cut the batten for you're window "glass" snug at top and bottom, (head and cill) first, and nail or screw, then the sides or stiles, bevel off the bottom or cill to throw the water off and seal in position with proper polycarbonate sealer, cut any excess off after it is set and go round and seal the surface angle where the two meet, when all is dry to stop water ingress.
Fit stop batten on the inside in the same fashion, job done!
Regards Rodders
Ps Lovely shed!!


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## KevB (16 Jan 2016)

Hi guys

Thanks very much for the replies, it's much appreciated  

Paul - Hmm I still can't decide on this. I think I would definitely like to stain it a nice colour, as I do think it looks a bit like a pigeon coup in it's current state haha :mrgreen: I'm hoping that if I pick the right colour/stain, it will make it look a lot prettier and I might even catch my wife staring at it :mrgreen: I've got a while to think about this yet, so will do some more research to help me make the right choice.

Yeah I was thinking that if I doubled up the plastic, it may trap moisture. Can anyone give me a certain answer on this? If it weren't to trap the moisture, I think i'd go ahead with it, if it helped towards keeping the cold weather out..

Rodders - Ah ok mate, thanks for letting me know. I'm learning all of the time when building this shed and advice like this is very much appreciated. If/when they do shrink, i'll unscrew them back off and fit them next time with square cuts. When I do build my next shed/workshop however many years down the line, it's little things like this that i'll remember :mrgreen: 

Ok, sounds like a plan with the windows. How would I go about beveling the cill? I only have a mitre saw, though I have just bought a router? I haven't a clue how to use it mind :roll: 

Thanks for the compliment. I'm still very much enjoying it as a first go at something like this. The only thing I think I should have spent a little more time on is the floor framing and how it is fixed to the posts. You see, my dad likes to work quick and he hates it when I stop, think and stare at things haha (hammer) :mrgreen: I sort of lost track of what screws were going in where, and how many etc. I wish I had of bolted the frame through all posts as Paul suggested, though now I only have access to the posts running centrally through the floor (which I have bolted). Another lesson learned for next time.

One other thing - I couldn't get access to the back right hand side of the shed (too close to fence). Meaning I have three corners bolted together, with that corner left out. I couldn't even get in to drill a hole with one of those right angle drill adapter thingies (hammer) 

Anyways, managed to finish pretty much all of the feather edge today..






Tomorrow I'm going to have a go at sanding those doors I have 

Edit : oh and I've ruined my grass directly around the shed (hammer) please please please grow back [-o<


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## Paul200 (17 Jan 2016)

KevB":w4qvpb56 said:


> Edit : oh and I've ruined my grass directly around the shed (hammer) please please please grow back [-o<



Ha! If there's one thing grass does really well it's growing :evil: Just you wait - you'll live to regret those words :roll: 

Looking really good Kev. As far as coloured stain goes I guess I'm looking at it from my own perspective. We live in a very rural (wild?) area where the 'natural' look is more in keeping (and keeps our few neighbours and the local council happy). If you're more urban (and I don't know) then a coloured stain would look tidier. Your call bud


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## KevB (17 Jan 2016)

Haha Paul, well I do hope it does grow back, just not too long that it takes over my shed (hammer) :mrgreen: I sort of live in an urban village, there are fields, greenery and even horses around :mrgreen: , though we are surrounded by other houses.

I managed to start the sanding on the doors today..






I still can't decide on what to colour it with.. I'm now thinking I may just paint the whole thing, rather than trying to match stain to paint. Do you guys think brown would go with green trim? Not too heavy of a colour, something more natural looking..

Maybe paint the featheredge and doors brown and the trim/facia green? Or the other way around? I think i'm quite happy to use paint as long as it doesn't look too vivid and end up not blending in with the garden.

Here's a link as an example..

https://www.cuprinol.co.uk/garden_colour/colour_selector/index.jsp

I quite like the seasoned oak, with an old English green trim. Do you think this goes together?

Any advice from you experienced shed/workshop builders would be much appreciated 

Oh and with the doors. Should I notch out the frame and sit the hinges behind, or sit them in front of the trim?


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## Abigkid (18 Jan 2016)

Thanks for sharing your Kev, very helpful for me as I look to build something similar one day. I think seasoned oak would look great.


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## KevB (18 Jan 2016)

Abigkid":2oz2eb3o said:


> Thanks for sharing your Kev, very helpful for me as I look to build something similar one day. I think seasoned oak would look great.



Thanks mate, glad my thread is giving you some inspiration  

Well today at work I made my first attempt in person at asking for any unwanted off cuts. During my break I had a walk around to the nearby community centre that is being demolished. A chap showed me some polystyrene sheets that he said I could have if I wanted them. They are just small cuts, so i'd have to piece them in between the walls or floor. They are, I think, around 40-50mm thick.

Can anyone tell me whether standard polystyrene sheets are a good enough insulation for sheds? They don't have foil on or anything.


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## mindthatwhatouch (18 Jan 2016)

Hi Kev.
Ordinary Polystyrene is fine, not as good an insulator as PUR (the denser foam with the foil on it) 
One problem is some people don't like it because its nasty in a fire, but then in a wooden shed full of wood.... have to make up your own mind on that one.


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## KevB (19 Jan 2016)

mindthatwhatouch":3nwl76n1 said:


> Hi Kev.
> Ordinary Polystyrene is fine, not as good an insulator as PUR (the denser foam with the foil on it)
> One problem is some people don't like it because its nasty in a fire, but then in a wooden shed full of wood.... have to make up your own mind on that one.



Hmm yeah mate I know what you mean. It does worry me a little, though it will be behind osb boards and I would hope that any fire that may happen, I would be able to put out before it gets to this stuff :shock: 

I picked some up today..






It's around 40-50mm thick and I could maybe just use it under the floor? Does anybody else have any thoughts or concerns about using this?


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## blackrodd (19 Jan 2016)

polystyrene was the main site insulation not too long ago, That's a nice stack for a freebie, well done!
plenty Good for shed insulation, cut with a blunt handsaw, if you have one, 
Rodders


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## KevB (19 Jan 2016)

Rodders - I'm getting a load more of it tomorrow, maybe up to 4 times as much as that :mrgreen: It's 2.4m long, though only 350mm wide. But that's ok as I may put and extra thin length of wood in the floor at every middle joint, to support them.

Can you believe I managed to fit that first lot into a small kia picanto haha.

They took this up from beneath an indoor bowiling green at a community centre they are demolishing, i'm assuming it's pretty much the same, if not identical to the insulation they used to use back then..


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## KevB (5 Feb 2016)

Hi guys

Well I've had a few weeks off from building the shed, as I've been busy preparing for a new baby and decorating my daughters new bedroom  

Hopefully tomorrow, weather permitting, I can make a start on boarding the roof. 

I'm going to piece the roof in using 1200x1200 9mm cuts of osb, then another layer glued on top, staggering the joints. I don't think this is an ideal way to do the roof and originally I was going to use 25mm osb 8x4's (which I already have 5 sheets of). Then I realised that maybe the 4x2 rafters would not hold the weight of the sheets, which put me off. So now I will probably use them for the floor instead.

Anyways, not being sure what type of osb it is..do you guys think it will be ok with some water hitting it until next weekend? My dad is coming next weekend to do the torch on felt and whatever work I get done this weekend with the boarding will be covered with a tarpaulin, though it does (I think) let a little water/condensation in here and there.

What do you think guys, will it be ok?


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## skipdiver (12 Feb 2016)

First time i have glanced on this thread for a while and it looks very smart. I'm too late to answer your query regarding roof as you posted it last friday but regarding the polystyrene, up until a few years ago, we used it all the time, especially in floors. When i built caravans for a living many moons ago, we used to get through mountains of the stuff. 1" went in the British caravan walls and 2" in the ones we made for Sweden. It's not the best insulator out there but for free it's better than nowt.


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## MickCheese (13 Feb 2016)

Somehow I missed this thread so have just read through it in it's entirety.

Well done, looking good and I'm sure it will serve you well. I've put up several sheds for my wife to use as a workshop as we've moved houses. The sheds were purchased and I have fitted them out and insulated them. I spent more money on the fittings then you have on the whole build. It's always more difficult to re-use materials, I think you've done a really good job on that front.

Mick


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## KevB (19 Feb 2016)

Hi guys

Could you give me some quick advise please..

What it is.. My dad is coming tomorrow to help me lay the felt on the roof. He was meant to get me some underlay on the way home from work and forgot to get it. The problem is, he is only available tomorrow as he will be working away for 4 weeks.

Should I go ahead and lay the felt directly to the osb board? Has anyone done this before without any major problems over the long term?

The felt is the green mineral torch on type.

Any advise would really help from you more experienced shed/workshop builders..


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## Woodchips2 (19 Feb 2016)

Hi Kev
Guidance here http://www.icopal.co.uk/~/media/IcopalU ... ochure.pdf. It isn't going to last as long with one less layer but I've just nailed mineral felt to a boarded roof in the past and it's lasted 7 or 8 years.
Regards Keith


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## KevB (19 Feb 2016)

Woodchips2":1sg9qf2m said:


> Hi Kev
> Guidance here http://www.icopal.co.uk/~/media/IcopalU ... ochure.pdf. It isn't going to last as long with one less layer but I've just nailed mineral felt to a boarded roof in the past and it's lasted 7 or 8 years.
> Regards Keith



Hi mate

Thanks for that. If it lasted that long I'd be very pleased. Even 3-5 years I wouldn't mind. I've just read in that link you sent that it's no longer allowed - burning torch on felt directly to osb board, because of the obvious fire risk. This is something I've been a little worried about as well recently. 

I may still go ahead, and just torch the thing straight on and hope for the best. Not the best practice but I don't claim to be any kind of professional lol :roll: 

What would you do?


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## cammy9r (20 Feb 2016)

I dont think you should torch directly onto the osb as it sticks the felt to the entire sheet which will move and possibly tear the felt causing leaks. The bottom layer i believe is acting as a debonding or slip layer for the torch on felt.


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## KevB (21 Feb 2016)

Ok cheers for that mate. My dad couldn't make it this weekend and I didn't do any work on the roof. Although it is all boarded and covered. At least it gives me some extra time to get some underlay.

Some work on the floor today..






















And more free pallet wood.. I'm going to end up with a wood yard for a back garden :roll:






Hopefully finish the floor and the roof next weekend


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## KevB (6 Mar 2016)

Hi guys

I've decided with the help of my brother in law, i'm going to have a go at torching on the felt myself. I have a few questions I was hoping you guys could help me out with..

Corners - How do I go about fixing the corners of the felt? Do I make any cuts in them, or is it just a matter of folding them into place?

Fascias - I understand that once the felt has been applied and folded around the edges of the roof, I then apply the sides and front fascia on top and sandwiching the felt. Is this correct? The back of the shed is different, the fascia sits underneath and back from the roof edge (by about 50mm). This is to allow water to drip directly into the gutter from the roof boards...is this correct regarding the back of the roof?


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## blackrodd (6 Mar 2016)

Many people are Nailing the base coat on, every 6-8" every which way and sticking the second sheet and cap sheet, I've had better results myself, since this came about, the end of condensation between the deck and felt and roof failure.
There's a bit of an art to torching the felt, so easy to catch on fire in just a few seconds.
When the roof deck on a mono pitch is fixed, and just before felting, the top edge and both sides should have a tilting fillet, basically just an Arris cut piece of 2"x2" nailed/screwed in place.
This keeps the water channeled down the the gutter end and stops water being blown in at the sides and rotting the fascia etc.
You need to make up "welts"for the outside edges.
Instead of me droning on, you'll probably be pleased to hear I've found some details of how to go about it.if you would like a butcher's. 
You probably ought to read the whole thing.
HTH Regards Rodders 
http://www.diydata.com/projects/flatroof/flatroof.php


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## KevB (13 Mar 2016)

Thanks for the advice and link blackrodd.

Do you think I can get away with the cap sheet straight onto the roof boards? I'm stressing a bit now and just want it done before it starts leaking. I definitely don't think I can afford a 3 layer system, though if there was some sort of cheap primer or something I could coat the boards with first, i'd do that?

Also, the arris cuts. I have some wood around about the same dimesnions, though it's not triangular shaped..you reckon I could use this and would the felt fold up against it ok?

Managed a little more work on the fascia/boxing in (whatever it is) around the back of the shed. I'm quite lost in this area without my dad, so just trying to do it as best I can and i'm hoping it will end up ok. I still need to cut the roof boards back, once I see how the gutter sits.











Lots of polystyrene left over from the floor, may use it for parts of the walls.






And a pic of the roof with the boards on.


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## KevB (18 Mar 2016)

Hi again guys

I'm really confused about this felt roof. There's so many products available, I don't know what I need..

I guess it's not a good idea to torch the cap sheet directly to the roof. Is there a flexible primer or something that will give me that movement under the cap sheet? Or something that I can use with the cap sheet to give me a two layer system? 

It need to be something that is fairly cheap though as i'm not getting any overtime these days (hammer) 

I spoke to my mate today and he said I could borrow his gas and torch, so that's all sorted. Just this underlay or primer to find now.

I think what is confusing me is, if I could do a two layer system.. do I buy nail on, glued on or torch on underlay?


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## Paul200 (19 Mar 2016)

KevB":2qwq2ipl said:


> Hi again guys
> 
> I'm really confused about this felt roof. There's so many products available, I don't know what I need..
> 
> ...



Can't help you with your roof Kev, not something I know much about and, like you say, the choice is bewildering, but I would have thought someone on here knew the answer :?: :wink: I'm still impressed with your progress mate. Take care.


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## KevB (19 Mar 2016)

Thanks Paul. My progress is slow at the best of times :roll: , though it's been very slow lately as I've had all sorts of other things going on. My priority at the moment is to get this roof sorted before the mrs drops this baby (any time now  ) and before it starts leaking. 

Though i'm sad that my dad isn't here to help me finish it, as it was our project together, I'm still enjoying it and it's a good learning curve for me. I really appreciate yours and other members interest in my thread on here. As i'm a bit of a loner when it comes to building my shed (which I quite like as I get to do everything exactly how I want it ha), it's nice to show people what i'm doing or trying to achieve  

I was hoping that somebody could direct me to something I can put down on the osb boards before I torch the felt cap sheet on? Something that is fairly easy to lay and isn't too expensive..

Tomorrow I'm going to try and finish the feather edge, pieces of the fascias/boxing in that can be done before the felt and maybe the rest of the floor. Hopefully in the next coming weeks I can have all this done, including the roof. Then install the windows and hang the doors. After this I think i'll have to shut up shop and put the insulating and internal boarding on hold until the new baby grows a bit.

Will take some more pics tomorrow.


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## KevB (20 Mar 2016)

Blackrodd - Do you know when you mentioned the arris cuts. Would this be ok to fit this to the outside of the felt?











As you can see it's just two pieces of wood clamped together to show where it would be fixed. Acting as a fascia as well as a barrier to stop the water being blown into the fascia. The same along the front, though the fascia will be deeper here. The felt would be torched on and over the edges of the roof first, then the fascia/barrier fixed over the top. I'd then seal the inside edges where it meets the felt, to stop water getting in.

I think i'd find this way easier than trying to felt over the top of the barrier. What do you think?


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## KevB (25 Mar 2016)

Could anybody tell me whether I could nail any of these underlays down as part of a two layer system?

http://www.wickes.co.uk/IKO-Challenger-180-Sand-Underlay-20x1m/p/164182

http://www.wickes.co.uk/IKO-Trade-Medium-Duty-Sand-Surfaced-Underlay-20x1m/p/164175

I could really do with some advice on this as there's so many different products out there. I don't think it's good practice or a good idea for myself and my bro in law to torch directly onto osb boards. I've been looking for something that I can nail down, that has 20m on the roll and will allow me to torch on top of it?

This way I can nail the underlay myself, without bothering my bro in law at this stage  

This is the capsheet I have..


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## Roughcut (26 Mar 2016)

On the Wickes website it does mention that this one can be nailed down:
http://www.wickes.co.uk/IKO-Trade-Mediu ... m/p/164175


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## Bm101 (26 Mar 2016)

Hi Kev, in your links the descriptions have your answer I think. 
First link: 
Traditional pour & roll application
Second Link: 
A sanded roofing felt, for use as an underlay to a multi layer system or as a single layer for shed/hutch roofs.
Sand finished on the top surface and slate finished on the underside
To be secured by nail fixing, cold adhesive or pour and roll hot bitumen

Don't forget when your torching you're heating the roll not the boards. They'll singe a little but easily take the heat. If you've not done it before, you're after getting the right amount of heat to get it to adhere well. Too little is as bad too much. I've only done it a couple of times so I'm certainly not giving advice! Just trying to help if you've not done it before.

Edit. beaten to it.


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## KevB (27 Mar 2016)

Thanks guys.

I did notice with the second link that it says it can be nailed down, though I wasn't too sure whether or not it would be compatible with the cap sheet I have..

If I nail the first layer down, does this mean that all of the strength and chances of the cap sheet ripping off is then down to the hold that the clout nails have in the underlayer, rather than the bitumen on the cap sheet? if that makes sense :roll: 

I managed to finish the floor yesterday with a little help from my best mate..  

Really happy with it as it's my first attempt at anything like this. Not the best of finishes for a floor, with it being osb, though it's 25mm thick and very strong. I had to cut in some pieces along the front and along past the door opening, which really should have been at the back of the shed, though I had already put the extra noggins in the wrong place under the floor long before I realised my mistake. Still happy though and glad that's another thing finished.











Building towers, then knocking them over  









A good worker is a tidy worker..


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## Bm101 (27 Mar 2016)

Looks good Kev. Passed the qualityinspection by the assessor too by the looks of things.


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## KevB (27 Mar 2016)

Haha thanks mate. She's hard to please, so if she's happy I'm happy 

Edit : btw those morrisons shopping bags make great tool bags haha. I've had mine filled to the brim with drills, clamps, club hammers, knives, tape measures, set squares and all sorts of other tools and there's no sign of it ripping...very strong :mrgreen:


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## KevB (29 Mar 2016)

Does anyone know whether you can torch on top of this..

http://www.diy.com/departments/daltex-black-roofing-felt-underlay-l30m-w1m/35490_BQ.prd

It can be nailed and there's plenty on the roll to do my roof. It's hard to tell what it's made out of though and whether or not it can take the heat from the torch..?


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## Stanleymonkey (29 Mar 2016)

Can't help you with your roofing. Shed looks fantastic though. Great work - keep going


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## sundaytrucker (7 Apr 2016)

Nice job with the shed build.


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## flying haggis (11 Apr 2016)

I had a chat with a couple of guys who were redoing a flat felt roof, and asked them about underlays for torch on. They said that ordinary roofing felt ie the stuff for under tiles is ideal as a base for torch on but dont nail the seams only the ends of the runs of felt and run the base layer at 90 degrees to the torch on top layer. The reason for the not nailed down underlayer is to allow it to expand and contract with temperature, if it was nailed down it couldnt move and it would fail and leak at the nail positions. Mind you they also said that if it just a shed roof ie quite small area you can just torch straight on to the timber. Hope this helps or has it just confused you more?


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## skipdiver (12 Apr 2016)

Proper felt roofs are done with three layers- base, intermediate and top. Current spec is class 5B or 5U for the first 2 layers and class 5E for the top. You can use 5B for the top layer but you then have to coat it with something. There are also class 3 felts but they are not as durable. I asked the roofer i subby too sometimes as i am about to re-do my storage shed. 

If you torch straight onto the wood, it will split at the joins. You can get away with two good layers on a shed if the top layer is of a good quality. Think he said something about 2mm and 4mm felts but i've forgotten exactly what he said, because at this point, i decided i would get him to do it for me and the conversation ended. He was going to loan me his torch but i decided it wasn't worth the hassle to save a few bob with all the delicate stuff in the shed. Apart from that, he has public liability to use a torch and i don't.


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## KevB (9 Jul 2016)

Cheers for the replies guys  

Well this shed is still not finished (hammer) 

Do any of you guys know if I can use a felt adhesive to stick down a 'torch on felt' on top of an underfelt? Or does torch on felt have to be torched on?


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## RickN (10 Jul 2016)

Daft Question, but is it not worth having a bash at using EDPM for the roof. I used some for a hutch I made, damn sight easier than faffing about with felt. 
Unless there is underlying pyromania lurking about with using the torch.


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## diviy (10 Jul 2016)

I have been looking what to do with my roof , Have a look at pond liner for a epdm covering .There are loads of info on google http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272193120...49&var=571000885156&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Everbuild do these products http://www.everbuild.co.uk/bitumen-and-roofing/roof-repair
If you go the felt way


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## KevB (10 Jul 2016)

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

I already have the torch on felt as I bought it months ago. The roof also currently has an underlayer felt nailed to it. 

As I'm not getting anywhere fast with the torch down route, I was going to buy some of that blackjack felt adhesive and stick the capsheet down on top of the underwent instead.

Does anybody think this will still work OK?


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## KevB (17 Jul 2016)

Ok so I've ordered 4 new rolls of felt (not torch on felt), some clout nails and a 5L tin of blackjack felt adhesive. The felt is just the 2 for £30 iko fine mineral stuff that Wickes are selling.

I'm off work for two weeks in a weeks time and plan on eventually getting this roof finished.

Can any of you guys advise me on whether I can use nails on the capsheet as well as the adhesive? I was planning on using the adhesive over the entire roof and then add rows of nails once the capsheet is down..

Could really do with some advise on this if any of you guys can help


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## skipdiver (18 Jul 2016)

You usually just nail along the joins of the capsheet where the two overlap and down the eaves. I also put roofing laths on mine every couple of foot, which keeps the felt well attached in high winds. It also helps if you do it on a warm day and roll it out to soften up and expand a bit before you attach it.


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