# Keepsake box - competition entry WIP



## motownmartin (23 Jun 2009)

I have finally finished designing my competition entry, there are quite a few challenges for me within the project which are a curved lid, wooden hinges wooden latch/catch and a double box joint.

The box will be made from Oak and Spalted Beech, it will be big enough to hold size A4 paper and deep enough to hold a number of items that are precious to one.

The design of the latch/catch is not final yet, I think it will have to be trial and error to see what will work best. The latch is shown in the first drawing and has been designed to look like the hinges which are shown in the second drawing.











This third drawing shows a closer view of the double box joint which has a border around the first cut with the end grain showing, I am very nervous about getting this right but will show the progress in this thread.


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## Geno (23 Jun 2009)

Good luck with this one!!

Looking forwars to seeing these box joints done!!


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## motownmartin (24 Jun 2009)

Geno":1cork8yo said:


> Good luck with this one!!
> 
> Looking forwars to seeing these box joints done!!


Thanks, I think i'm gonna need it.

It will be some time before I get round to doing them and I'll do the lid first just in case I have to alter any dimensions to suit, I doubt if there will be any probs but I don't have a lot of 2" thick Spalted Beech to play with.


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## MikeG. (24 Jun 2009)

This looks exciting, Martin!

I haven't worked out how the hinges attach to the lid.........and wonder if they might just be eased a gnat's further apart? 

I can see how you will set about doing the double finger-joint detail..........but I would hesitate to say that I can see how you can do it perfectly accurately. You obviously know the secret!!

Best of luck!

Mike


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## motownmartin (24 Jun 2009)

Mike Garnham":2uoggkgo said:


> This looks exciting, Martin!
> 
> I haven't worked out how the hinges attach to the lid.........and wonder if they might just be eased a gnat's further apart?
> 
> ...


Thanks Mike

The hinge upper will be set into the lid like so, I may even put some dowels in there too.









When you look at the hinge positions from a different angle they look ok to me, what do you think?


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## motownmartin (25 Jun 2009)

Mike Garnham":1n18lxwn said:


> I can see how you will set about doing the double finger-joint detail..........but I would hesitate to say that I can see how you can do it perfectly accurately. You obviously know the secret!!
> 
> 
> Mike


No secret Mike, it will be done on the incra positioner, thats if I can work it out :?


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2009)

Managed to make a start on the lid today I decided to cut out the curve on the inside with the table saw.

I had to angle the blade at 30 degrees and slide the workpiece over the blade at right angles, obviously there is not a crown guard or riving knife fitted but you take great care its not much different to using a planer, taking shallow cuts, about 2mm, just like planing, it coped with very well.

Here are sme pics to show you how it went.

The first 2 pics shows some lengths of timber clamped to the table, these made a channel to slide the workpiece across the saw.









The first cut





The final cut from the underside





A little surprise, I found some lead shot in this one, I hope its not in the whole board, oh well start again this afternoon


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## Chems (1 Jul 2009)

That looks really good! I've only seen someone do that once with the table saw, you must have to be fairly brave. Bad luck on those imperfections.

Whats your plan for radiusing the top?


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2009)

Chems":3v1w7tkc said:


> Whats your plan for radiusing the top?


I plan to cut the bulk off on the table saw then hand plane :shock:


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## RogerM (1 Jul 2009)

Another of my favourite threads. Are you using a special blade on your TS for this hollowing out method Martin, or just your standard one?


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2009)

RogerM":5e7ktu2k said:


> Another of my favourite threads. Are you using a special blade on your TS for this hollowing out method Martin, or just your standard one?


I did wonder about this but proceeded with my standard ripping 24 tooth blade and seen or felt no reason to use any other, I didn't know whether or not to put a 60 tooth in for the finishing cut but decided not to push my luck


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2009)

motownmartin":25uonqvz said:


> Chems":25uonqvz said:
> 
> 
> > Whats your plan for radiusing the top?
> ...



Like I said

Scribe out the Radius, a bit of a Heath Robinson setup but worked very well.






Blimey, this is going to take ages.






And it did, about 2 hours later  and 2 pints of sweat in this hot weather, I measured it at 30 degrees in my Garage/Workshop.

I have oiled it, not for the finished article but to show up any imperfections, I do this a lot and find it helps me to get a better finish.


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## kityuser (1 Jul 2009)

Doesn't that go against the golden rule of remove equal amounts of wood from each side to avoid cupping? The rule one should follow when thicknessing?

Steve


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2009)

kityuser":1nwrzc1m said:


> Doesn't that go against the golden rule of remove equal amounts of wood from each side to avoid cupping? The rule one should follow when thicknessing?
> 
> Steve


This is one of the reasons why I am making the lids first, it could all go terribly wrong but I can adjust the dimensions on the box if need be.
I have also gone against the growth rings if you take a close look at the pics, I am thinking that this will limit the movement or will it make it worse :?


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## OPJ (1 Jul 2009)

Nicely done, Marin. Although, it looks like you could've done with one of these! :twisted: 

:wink:


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## motownmartin (5 Jul 2009)

The lid looks fairly smooth and neatly curved on a photo but I can tell you that is not the case, I run my hand over the surface and it feels like a ploughed field :shock: 

To get rid of this I have used the same technique as you would employ when rebuilding an old machine with a rusty old shaft, a small shaft is easy but a big diameter is hard graft and patience, to do this I made a device to hold the lid whilst sanding with a strip of 120 grit.

Here are some pics to show how

The first pic shows how uneven this lid is






This pic also sows how uneven, you can just about see the lighter strips along the length.






The third pic just shows the make up of the stand better






By the way, I am making 2 of everything, especially after finding lead shot in the lid.


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## Benchwayze (12 Jul 2009)

motownmartin":1x78g3yx said:


> The lid looks fairly smooth and neatly curved on a photo but I can tell you that is not the case, I run my hand over the surface and it feels like a ploughed field :shock:



That's one of the hallmarks of 'Hand-planed' surfaces Martin. I love those 'furrows'... Straight from the iron! 
 

Coming along nicely. 

John


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## motownmartin (12 Jul 2009)

I have got it as good as I am going to get it and should be able to start the box carcass next week before I have my annual hols.


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## motownmartin (20 Jul 2009)

I have been busy with the project over the last few days and managed to get all the stock thicknessed and cut to size.






Then I spent a couple of hours scratching my head to try and figure out how to to these joints :? as you may or may not know I built a Norm style router table and kitted it out with the Incra LS Positioner, this marvelous bit of kit enables me to do such complex joints like this Double double box joints with a fair amount of precision, this joint requires 6 different cuts altogether :shock: 

I shall try my best to explain how its done.

When you buy this positioner you will also receive 50 plus templates and a guide book, the first pic shows the joint, with all the cuts A, B, C, D, E & F, I have chosen for this project.






Confused, yeah, so was I, first of all we have to set the cutter in a datum position, I do this by setting the fence level with the cutter then placing the measure on zero, as you will see in the next pic, then move the fence to the first cut position, which in this case is 1/2", I then have to place my templates in position, in this case there are 2, A,B & C cuts on one and D, E & F cuts on the other, template 1 is in the bottom of the pic and template 2 is at the top.






This next pic shows template 1 aligned with cut 1A (in blue) positioned on the black line, I hope you can follow this.







Then we align template 2 with template 1 there are some align marks on the templates as shown in the pic, template 1 is already set so we just have to move template 2 in line.






Time for a break


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## Boz62 (20 Jul 2009)

Yes, I _think_ I'm following :shock:. This is interesting, I've always wondered how these fences work, please keep going with the explanation, once you've recovered enough . 

Boz


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## motownmartin (20 Jul 2009)

On with the cutting, the first cuts are the A's and the F's, A for the end boards and F for the side boards, I always place an extra board on both sides when cutting like so







The B & E cuts are cut along the length of a board then cut to size before glueing into position like the next series of pics suggest














I can't do anymore until the glue dries, maybe tomorrow.


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## motownmartin (20 Jul 2009)

Boz62":333iv20m said:


> Yes, I _think_ I'm following :shock:. This is interesting, I've always wondered how these fences work, please keep going with the explanation, once you've recovered enough .
> 
> Boz


Hi Boz, these fences are desiged to move 1/32" at a time so all templates are in divisions of that fraction although there is a fine movement which allows you to move a thou at a time and I used this on the B and E cuts to make them fit a bit easier.
There is a cylindrical wheel just behind the fence, you can see it in the photo, its coloured red, each notch this is moved will alter the fence by 1 thou.


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## Boz62 (20 Jul 2009)

Thankyou. I like that. I hadn't realised you had the chance to adjust things slightly. I'll keep watching .

Boz


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## motownmartin (21 Jul 2009)

Up nice and early this morning to finish off the joints, two cuts left to do, the C cuts on the ends and the D cuts on the sides, I also rough cut the radius on the ends, the plan is to finish cut with a bearing guided cutter when the lid is fixed in place, this will transfer the exact contour from lid to box.










A dry fit to make sure they fit, perfect  i'm hoping that when I oil the finished project the joints will stand out a lot more than they do now.


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## motownmartin (24 Oct 2009)

I can't believe it's been 3 Months since I last worked on this :shock: 

Started work on the hinges, which are, hopefully, going to be stop hinges.

Once I have thicknessed and cut the width of the stock, I proceded the cut a radius on one side of the hinge, like so






Next was to cut the fingers, these hinges are 3/8" or 9.6mm thick,so i'll use a 3/8" downward spiral cutter cutter, hopefully this will keep any splitting or breakout to a minimum, I will set the cutter at 10.6mm so when the hinge is in operation it will open a little more than 90 degrees, not sure how much though.






I also need to cut out slightly more than 3/8", i'll go for 2 thou using the fine movement dial on the fence






Have to drill the hinges on my homemade jig






Here is a hinge with a brass pin






The hinge opened out fully at just over 90 degrees


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## motownmartin (24 Oct 2009)

It looks as though i'll not get this finished for the competition closing date, there has been plenty of time just too many other jobs to be done during the summer, the large garden takes a lot of my spare time.

Anyway, good luck to every other entrant.


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## OPJ (24 Oct 2009)

Sorry to hear that you won't be able to finish in time but, at the same time, I love the hinge-drilling jig! Brilliant!


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## devonwoody (26 Oct 2009)

Sorry to hear your news Martin, however you should be well underway for next years comp.


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## motownmartin (27 Oct 2009)

I have been trying to complete this box in time for the deadline but with the rushing about its one mistake after another.

Cracked on with fitting the hinges, this is where one of the mistakes happened, both of the hinges split as i was fitting the dowels, the air was a bit blue. one of them was so bad that a piece of the hinge flew off and lost for ever, the rest of the splits have been glued.

Cutting the housing for the hinges and handle










Fitting the hinges and handle














I have changed the design of the locking mechanism as the original design was very awkward and unsafe to make, I have opted for a small lock and key mounted in a block like so














One thing that I am fairly pleased with is the box joints


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## StevieB (27 Oct 2009)

I like that alot! I have the small incra jobbie (plastic one from Rockler) and find it excellent but difficult to set the scale. Have had my eye on the LS positioner for a while and this encourages me to go for it. Thanks for showing us it in detail.

Steve.


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## motownmartin (27 Oct 2009)

StevieB":pyc3trn7 said:


> I like that alot! I have the small incra jobbie (plastic one from Rockler) and find it excellent but difficult to set the scale. Have had my eye on the LS positioner for a while and this encourages me to go for it. Thanks for showing us it in detail.
> 
> Steve.


You won't regret it Steve


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## NewtoWood (27 Oct 2009)

This is looking really good and thanks for showing us how to do those incra multi joints, they really add to the piece.


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## Mike.C (27 Oct 2009)

Well smart Martin. =D> =D> =D> 

I don't know if you remember but I got my Incra just before you and I still haven't used it yet.  

I really hope that you do finish in time for the comp.

Cheers

Mike


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## motownmartin (27 Oct 2009)

Mike.C":2za3i73c said:


> Well smart Martin. =D> =D> =D>
> 
> I don't know if you remember but I got my Incra just before you and I still haven't used it yet.
> 
> ...


Hi Mike, If I do finish, it won't be the best workmanship I have ever done but its not about winning, its more about me challenging myself.


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## Mike.C (27 Oct 2009)

motownmartin":35mk9zx7 said:


> Mike.C":35mk9zx7 said:
> 
> 
> > Well smart Martin. =D> =D> =D>
> ...



Well it looks like you are meeting the challenge head on and winning. :wink: 

Cheers

Mike


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## devonwoody (27 Oct 2009)

Martin is your incra system mounted on your axminster table saw or only to a router table?


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## motownmartin (27 Oct 2009)

The de-luxe router table John


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## Ironballs (27 Oct 2009)

Excellent, looks like you might have it finished in time


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2009)

Finished without any feet


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## Mike.C (31 Oct 2009)

Hi Martin,

What a lovely box, very well done mate =D> I knew that you could finish in time.

Cheers

Mike


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2009)

Thanks Mike, I wish I had left myself a little more time to finish it properly.


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## OPJ (31 Oct 2009)

Very nice, Martin. I do like the lock and the corner joints. 

Were you planning to add feet to this design, if you had more time?


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2009)

OPJ":31ivpd7e said:


> Were you planning to add feet to this design, if you had more time?


Yes I was, if you look at the first page of the thread, it shows the design with the feet on.


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## Slim (13 Nov 2009)

Lovely Box Martin. You've certainly mastered that Incra!


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## motownmartin (13 Nov 2009)

Hello Simon, not seen you around for about a year, its nice of you to drop in and comment.

Yes, I have definitely improved and this project gave me a good test.


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## Slim (13 Nov 2009)

I haven't had a workshop for a year Martin. Been in Bournemouth training to be an Air Traffic Controller. Unfortunately, that has gone a bit **** up.
At least I'm woodworking again.


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