# table design



## steamboat (7 Jun 2011)

Hello all. I was wondering if someone had a solution to a design problem.
I have recently designed a coffee table but have designed weaknesses into it.
So the design is:
40mm thick sides and top joined together by 20mm wooden dowels through the side and into the top with a 20mm gap between the side and the top. A draw is needed underneath the top with a 20mm gap between the table top and sides. Any aprons need to be hidden to create the sense of space. The weakness is that the dowels are going into the end grain of the top and the fact that there is a 20mm gap between the sides and top also weaken the table. 
Does anyone have experiences of a similar project (dowels into end grain) or can you suggest a solution to the problem.
hope this makes sense

Any help will be gratefully received


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## DOOGYREV (7 Jun 2011)

Not quite sure what you mean, but dowels into end grain should be fine just make the dowels longer (more glue surface area) in fact the dowel going into end grain actually means the grains will be in line. its only when you try to glue to end grain the join is weak.

perhaps you could post a sketch to help explain.


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## SketchUp Guru (7 Jun 2011)

A sketch of what you've designed would be a big help but as Doogy says, putting the dowels into the ends will actually work out since you'll have a long grain joint for the glue surface. 

Without a visual it is difficult to advise further.


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## steamboat (7 Jun 2011)

Thank both. I will try to get an image up of the design tomorrow; I have been working my way around sketch up but far from able to do a decent design.


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## SketchUp Guru (7 Jun 2011)

Even something rough out to help.


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## steamboat (8 Jun 2011)

Finally I have managed to compress the photo enough to attach it!
I was more worried about the table top splintering off above and below the dowels rather that the dowels coming loose and I think I will need something to stop the legs moving apart at the bottom so a hidden rail will be needed?


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Jun 2011)

OK. That makes it much clearer. If the dowels are properly fitted to the holes and glued in place, they will act like part of the table top and you shouldn't need to worry about splintering.

As to the hidden rail, perhaps you could use a piece of metal strapping below the drawer between the legs that is hidden behind the draw front. I'll make a sketch to show you.


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Jun 2011)

This was quick and is missing some details. The dark gray bar is the metal strap I was thinking of.





Drawing this in 3D brought up some questions for you.

What happens on the sides under the top? Are you planning to put the drawer in a box hanging from the top so that the drawer looks the same from all sides? Then the drawer would be set back behind the legs?

What are you going to do for drawer runners? Metal drawer glides or wood?

Maybe for the stretchers between legs, you could use an X-shaped structure.

You might want to try drawing the table out in 3D so you can look at it from all sides.


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## steamboat (8 Jun 2011)

Thanks for sketching that up for me, was it in sketch up?
The sides were going to be solid all the way across with wooden runners rather than legs like in you drawing, but now that I have seen it with legs I’m not so sure, the solid sides could possibly look too substantial and imposing where as the legs look much more elegant but pose other problems such as runners but like you said I could hang a box underneath to house the draw.


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## DOOGYREV (8 Jun 2011)

Nice Design, will look forward to seeing a pic when its finished. 

Yes the top will be fine if done as Dave mentioned. 

I have a solution for stopping the legs from spreading and maintaining the seance of space and design, 
Cut two lengths of whatever you made the top out of 40 x 40 and long enough to reach between legs diagonally 
half join them where they cross at the centre and make your dowel housing in the centre of each of the ends 
then you could cut 2 45degree angles 20mm short of each leg on the ends, either in a birds mouth or a point 
and fix this to the legs, via the dowels just under the drawer. 

Hope that makes sense


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Jun 2011)

steamboat":3j9h18ky said:


> Thanks for sketching that up for me, was it in sketch up?
> The sides were going to be solid all the way across with wooden runners rather than legs like in you drawing, but now that I have seen it with legs I’m not so sure, the solid sides could possibly look too substantial and imposing where as the legs look much more elegant but pose other problems such as runners but like you said I could hang a box underneath to house the draw.




You're welcome. Yes, it is SketchUp. You might find it useful to use it to work out your design.


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## DOOGYREV (8 Jun 2011)

Dave R":3948lell said:


> This was quick and is missing some details. The dark gray bar is the metal strap I was thinking of.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice sketch Dave, How much and what is the software you used? and how easy/long does it take to learn how to use ?


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## DOOGYREV (8 Jun 2011)

steamboat":1jccsv6x said:


> The sides were going to be solid all the way across with wooden runners rather than legs like in you drawing, but now that I have seen it with legs I’m not so sure, the solid sides could possibly look too substantial and imposing where as the legs look much more elegant but pose other problems such as runners but like you said I could hang a box underneath to house the draw.



You could mount a base on the X section with beveled edges and just small enough so you dont see it under the draw and use bottom mounted draw runners.


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## SketchUp Guru (8 Jun 2011)

DOOGYREV":1klp2f9j said:


> Nice sketch Dave, How much and what is the software you used? and how easy/long does it take to learn how to use ?



As I told steamboat, the program is called SketchUp. There is a free version of it as well as the pro version which costs $595. It's pretty easy to learn if you go about it the right way.


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## steamboat (9 Jun 2011)

Thanks everyone for your help, I feel more confident now so will plough ahead, though I have got to wait for the top to loos a bit more moisture. I will post some pictures once it is finished.


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