# Anyone ever had their own house built?



## powertools (29 Sep 2013)

We have reached the conclusion that the house we have lived in since 1982 is now far to big for our needs and is becoming a drain on our resources.
We want something smaller with a smaller garden but don't want to move far from the area but have been unable to find anything that we like in our price range.
The present house stands on a 1/3 acre plot and has a 1200sq ft workshop to the rear (also now to large for my needs)
We came up with the idea of reducing the size of the workshop and converting it into a double garage and smaller workshop and having a smaller house built on the site to our own specifications and then selling the original house that would still stand on a good size plot.
Having taken advice from a professional in planning and building design it would seem that we should get permission to do this and it does make economic sense but I am aware that this is a massive undertaking and I am concerned about the possible pitfalls and hidden costs a project of this type is likely to surprise me with.
Anybody ever done anything similar?


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## Spindle (29 Sep 2013)

Hi

We have been down similar routes twice before and would do so again in the future if the need arises.
The price and availability of plots are the biggest factors in my opinion but if you can get detailed planning for your project I'd definitly go for it.
Our first house was built from a timber framed kit and took about ten weeks start to finish and saved us about 20% on buying something comparable. Second house was traditionally built to my own design, took about six months to complete and saved in the region of 50%, both times we had to purchase plots. This was back in the eighties in Scotland before the cost of plots increased dramatically, however today you can still make a substantial saving and end up with a purpose built property, (in your case the saving would be augmented by not hasving to buy a plot).
I'd start by looking at timber frame kit manufacturer's web sites to get an idea of what is available - next on the list, (unless you intend to site manage the project yourself), is to find a good tradesman to act as your primary contractor, (he will take on the task of managing all of the sub contractors and dealing with suppliers etc.).

It may seem like a daunting project at first, read as much as you can, ask around locally and try to contact people who have undertaken similar projects. At the end of the day it's pretty simple and very rewarding.

When carving up your current property be aware of the impact your changes will have to the value of the existing house.

Regards Mick


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 Sep 2013)

yup. Twice now. I really think the trick is to avoid nasty surprises by planning the budget properly. You must assume you will overspend the 2nd fix through to finish budget by a fair margin. At last 30% or more so build that in. The construction budget shouldn't go too far adrift as it will be a price from a builder. and is highly commoditised.

All the risk is in the finishing (ie not that medium price kitchen we decided on but this swanky one that SWMBO rally likes). The other area of risk in my experience is right at the start with the foundations. Any nasty surprises like trees or boggy ground you hadn't considered will add a few grand to the price.

We overspent on house 1 by around 30% but the 2md house (which is 5000 sq foot) was a massive overspend...truly huge. It was all because we kept buying better stuff than we planned. The construction went to budget. Bathrooms, kitchens, windows, doors all were blown completely out of their original plans.

So if you get a price from a builder (and you really need 3 quotes at least) make him document whats in and also whats not in his price. Who is going to project manage it because the builder typically wont. We did ours and its a huge time commitment, mind you its fun also if you like building.

But the result, which is a space designed to your specification is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done personally. To have power over your environment and know what materials are behind every wall, every floor etc is a dam fine feeling which has positive spin-offs in many other areas of your life.

I've researched off site built green oak framed houses and when the kids leave home and we downsize...that'll be my next project. You can have the frame ready to roof from foundations in a fortnight which compared to brick built is a staggering leap in time. They're also my personal taste ie oak everywhere throughout the interior.

So plan your budget very carefully.....then add 50% would be my advice. If you don't spend the difference then its a bonus but assume you will and you may be about right.


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## Lons (29 Sep 2013)

The only unknown really would be groundcosts relating to any unexpected problems such as tree roots, drains, ground type and conditions etc. For the actual build, you should be able to get pretty accurate costings and estimates, likewise for planning and legal costs etc.
The most common reason for estimates being inaccurate is the householder moving the goalposts and deviating / adding to the original plans. (I guarantee you will do that as the building progresses and you see other possibilities).
Those comments apply only to the basic build as the fixtures and fittings depend entirely on your choice e.g. you can spend £5k or £50k on a kitchen  

Get several estimates from reputable companies and make sure they are itemised. If using an architect, make sure there is no "history" of problems between then as you would be surprised how often they don't gel and make sure the architect has significant experience of single dwelling projects and not just and office based artist. There are good and bad in all professions :lol: 

I'm a builder BTW and though have only built 1 bungalow from scratch, many years ago, have completed several major conversions. I've also looked hard at doing a similar thing as I have a 3/4 acre paddock which would make an ideal plot for my retirement though I fear planning will be more of a problem than yours.

As an aside, have you looked at the various timber frame kit houses on the market? Excellent value for money and a quick build solution if you are happy with that type of construction. I would have no hesitation for myself providing I project managed it though I'd want to do that on a traditional build also as I'm getting too old and lazy to do thehard graft myself these days.

Bob


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## powertools (29 Sep 2013)

Many thanks for the detailed replies.
We have had valuations done and the economics do work out but it is not a project that I would go into lightly.
With 3 vehicles 2 dogs 6 chickens and 3 rabbits to accommodate along with the need for a workshop for a noisy hobby it seems like the best way forward to create what will be our final home.
We have another advisor coming on Tuesday to see what ideas he has and after that we will decide if we approach the council with an informal planning application.
As I said to the wife the other day this would be the second biggest gamble of my life, what was the biggest gamble she said marrying you said i,
we are back on talking terms now.


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 Sep 2013)




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## powertools (12 Feb 2014)

It's hard to believe that it is nearly 5 months since I started this thread but having done much research and gone through a process of pre planning advice with the planning dept I have finally given an architect the go ahead to draw up the plans today.
The project involves creating new boundaries for the existing house and preparing it for sale, reducing the size of existing workshop to create a double garage and the all important woodwork workshop and building new house.
It would seem that a project that I thought would take about a year is likely to take nearer 2 years from the start of this thread, at best it will be another 4 months before we have planning permission in place.
If anybody is contemplating a similar project and if there is any interest I will update this thread from time to time with my experiences and progress.


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## Spindle (12 Feb 2014)

Hi

Glad things are moving along - please keep the thread updated, it's always good to keep abreast of current developments and challenges.

Regards Mick


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## MARK.B. (12 Feb 2014)

Please do update and some pics as the job progresses (before and after) would be great if you can find the time.

Mark


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## KevM (12 Feb 2014)

Another vote for a lavishly detailed account of the whole process please!

We're kicking around the ideas for what we'd like to do next - ranging from buying and extending to ground-up build. It seems like quite a daunting process with obstacles at every turn, but I'm sure if you've prepared thoroughly (and it doesn't sound like you're leaping into this on a whim!) you'll get the house that's perfect for you. 
Best of British!


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## Random Orbital Bob (12 Feb 2014)

+1 on the progress updates. My self build experiences are similar in that the above the shoulders stuff at the beginning ie design and planning etc take a huge amount of time. Once you've all the permissions and a budget, the construction process is the fun bit. I for one would be interested in your progress. Also don't neglect the zero VAT rated dodge. As along as its your primary residence all the materials and labour are exempt from VAT which is a massive saving. Obviously 20% of budget. You need to research that because I think you need all the relevant paperwork, receipts etc from the start.

Very best of luck


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## Grahamshed (12 Feb 2014)

I would also enjoy reading progress reports and seeing pics of the build. Interesting stuff.


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## powertools (12 Feb 2014)

There seems to be some interest and while that continues and as long as the mods are happy I will tell the story so far and the background to the idea. I promise that if I manage to pull this off there will be a nice woodwork shop to show for it where I intend to spend my retirement just doing things I want to do rather than spend most of my time working.
I have selfish reasons for starting this thread in that the wife seems to have a misguided belief that whatever we do any problems that arise I just take in my stride and sort them out but I am aware that this is the biggest project I have ever undertaken and there will be many problems to overcome and I will need moral support and advice from other forum members who have undertaken this sort of project.
I purchased the existing house and workshop in 1982 in a totally derelict state, at the time the workshop had planning for use as a distribution depot for a dairy company and the first job was to have the house underpinned and apply for change of use for the workshop into a vehicle repair workshop and I then ran a vehicle repair business from here until 1996 after which time I started another business that no longer required use of the building.
During this time I carried major repairs to the house from renewing concrete floors to repairing gaps in the roof caused when the foundations had moved prior to my purchase of it and had a large extension built on the side of the house and so I do have experience of of having large building projects going on and have dealt with the local planners. 
Time has come when we should no longer live here because it is now far to big for our needs but we have been unable to find another house locally that we would want to live in and having taken much advice about selling this property as it is it would seem that the fact that it has 1200sq ft workshop to the rear is not an asset and it would be easier to sell and at a similar price without the workshop and garden to the side hence the idea of this project. 

Below is an aerial photo of the house taken about 25 years ago not much has changed in that time but all the classic Minis, the MK3 Land Rover and the MK1 Golf Gti have long gone but the Riley Elf is still here along with a muched loved Mini Cooper S that both will have to go to help finance the project . 







That is the background to the reasoning behind what we propose to do and if the interest continues I will update with the progress over the last few months and into the future.


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## Grahamshed (12 Feb 2014)

Looks like a 'fun' project. I am guessing that the new build will come out onto that main road (is it a main road ?) Do you anticipate any planning problems with that ?


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## gregmcateer (12 Feb 2014)

Looks v exciting.
Though I am deeply concerned that you think the workshop can be reduced in size - have you lost your mind, sir!!??!!
Seriously though, I do have a book about planning, etc, which you are welcome to, if you want it.
PM me your address if it's of interest.
Greg


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## powertools (12 Feb 2014)

gregmcateer":32w15cpo said:


> Looks v exciting.
> Though I am deeply concerned that you think the workshop can be reduced in size - have you lost your mind, sir!!??!!
> Seriously though, I do have a book about planning, etc, which you are welcome to, if you want it.
> PM me your address if it's of interest.
> Greg



Thanks for that kind offer but much of the last few months have been spent putting a plan together that should satisfy the planners. If you have a book about finance I would be interested as if we get planning permission that will be the next hurdle.

.


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## n0legs (12 Feb 2014)

I have, OH MY GOD !!!!
However much you think it will cost - add 30%
However long you think it will take - Multiply by 2.
Will you start drinking - Yes.
Will it stress you and your loved ones - Yes.
Should you live in a caravan on site - ABSOLUTELY NOT.
Is it worth it in the end - Definitely yes.
Will you earn brownie points with above mentioned loved ones - Yes Yes Yes.
Sit down and think long and hard about it - Yes.
Carefully vette your architect/builder - Yes.
Trust builders merchants quotes - No.
Get on with planning and building control - Yes, oh yes.
Stand your ground and make your point, hence get what you want and what you are paying for - Watch out for this one but Yes.
Try to enjoy the process - Maybe hard at times but again Yes.
Agree with loved ones on fixtures and fittings - Just go along with what she wants ( remembering it all won't last forever and your turn/choice will come)
Making sure you build in a little den for yourself - You really don't need me to answer that one do you.

Based on my own experiences only, not intended as a guide to self build or life.
Would I do it all again - Are you joking ? Absolutelywithoutadoubtinhell YES !!
Good luck =D>


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## blackrodd (12 Feb 2014)

Right up my street! I have built several timber framed dwellings and plasterboarded God knows how many!
as you are no doubt aware you cast a concrete slab with services and drain/sewer arrangement in place. and then a couple of very large lorries come on site and, using there own staff the house goes up in normally 3 days, roof, barge and fascia boards on, felted or tyvec and scatter battened, so the building is dry inside. 

Go for outline planning first and keep just the building in principle application.
Being turned down for roof tile colour or a window etc gets very stressful.
Get a good project manager
Open an account with a builders merchant, give their estimator a set of you're plans and have him price and estimate the amount of materials required for completion, and save 40% on materials. try and befriend him 'cos these blokes are on rubbish money and you need these guys on you're side from day one!
Do not fit out the bathroom or kitchen until last, and see how you're budget is doing! 
Its no good having a £2000 bath and no money for a dining room floor! 
Really, Really, try and stay with you're original plan and budget.
Have the groundworks, road/ access and drains,soakaways dug out in one go, don't work in mud and crud. 
Get hold of 2 good chippies.
Get a 2 or 3 gang of masons for the out side skin brick or block work.
Pay every friday for work completed, don't get involved if the carpenters budgie needs a by pass op!
Break the job down to manageable bite size pieces. 
Try and keep to one trade at a time inside and once or twice a week make and serve the tea, then you will possibly be aware of any site stress or labour problems
HTH Regards Rodders


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## Random Orbital Bob (13 Feb 2014)

+1 to the above....and I would add bacon butties and/or donuts once per week for site relations also


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## Grahamshed (13 Feb 2014)

Sounds like good advice by the hod full.


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## whiskywill (13 Feb 2014)

I did.

I designed the house, drew the plans, got planning permission and building regulations approval and started.

What I didn't do.
A local farmer friend with a JCB dug out for the foundations and drains.
Another bricklayer friend built the house from ground floor level up although I did all the preparatory labouring in the evenings after work and at weekends. I handled every single brick and block used.
A roofer laid the tiles. 
An electrician did the technical bits though I did the hard work chasing channels in walls, pulling cables and fitting socket boxes.
I didn't do any plastering.

What I did do. (After work and at weekends)
Laid the concrete foundation strip with help of a friend.
Built up to ground floor level, filled with hardcore and laid the concrete slab. 
Laid the drains and built manholes. 
Dug the hole for a septic tank with a shovel, put the tank in and backfilled with concrete.
Fitted the roof trusses, built the dormers, fitted the fascias, soffits and barge boards.
Installed the PVC windows.
Installed floor joists, laid floorboards, built partition walls and built in wardrobes.
Put up plasterboard on ceilings and partition walls.
Fitted ceiling coving.
Installed an alarm system.
All the plumbing and central heating.
Hung all doors, including for a double garage, fitted skirting and architrave.
Fitted the bathroom and kitchen.
Tiled the bathroom, en suite, downstairs W.C and the kitchen splashbacks.
Laid floor tiles in the utility room.
Built low garden retaining walls. 
Laid the driveway kerbs and called on my friend to help with the concrete pouring.
Laid a brick paviour patio.
Decorated the whole house. 
Went to sleep.

The build up to ground floor level was done in the first Summer then we had a break until our house was sold. We moved into a caravan on site in April and moved into the house the following March. I did all the planning and material ordering. It was a hell of a commitment but thoroughly enjoyable, and I lost two and a half stone in weight. But we had a house which didn't cost a lot.


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## powertools (13 Feb 2014)

Thanks for the detailed replies it is good to know that others have gone through the same process and have been happy with the results.
Up to now we have been through a steep learning curve and it has been very apparent that you need to have the right people giving you advice.
After we first had the idea we approached a planning adviser that we had used in the past plus another that was recommended to us by one of the estate agents we had gone to for valuations of the property as it is and as it would be if we went ahead with our proposal and it doesn't take long to realise that there are plenty of people who over value their time and make out that you will struggle to make progress without their help.
Our local council offers a service that you can just turn up and have a brief meeting with a planning officer free of charge and also a service where you can apply for pre planning advice for a charge of £150. We drew up our own basic plans and went for the free advice to see if they would be sufficient for us to apply for the pre planning and with a few modifications we then went for the pre planning. 
This stage then gets the plans looked at by all relevant departments and includes a site visit from the planning officer and you get a written report that throws up the problems that you will encounter with your proposal.
In our case the problems were with building height and vehicle access so we revised our plans to something we were still happy with and made an appointment to see the planning officer again and it seems that the revised plan that fits in with their requirements should not face too many problems but from past experience we know that this can change. We are aware that no planning officer ever had a problem turning an application down but puts their credibility on the line by making an approval.
Our next step has been to find an architect to put our ideas into a detailed plan to make a full planning application and that step has been the most difficult one yet and is a story for another day.


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## powertools (21 May 2014)

Just thought I would update this thread if anybody is interested. It is almost 8 months since since we had the original idea and we are only now at the point where we are within a week or two of making a formal planning application and that will take at least another 2 months. 
A project that we thought may take just over a year to complete will stretch into 2 years even if the planning goes through ok, the only good thing about the delay is that as a self build project we may not have to pay the local council £15000 just to build it due to recent government changes in the last budget.
This is not a project for the faint hearted and if anybody thinking about doing the same type of project wants the benefit of my experience to get things to this stage just ask.
I will update again as the planning application progresses if there is any interest.


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## Mike.S (22 May 2014)

powertools":68nm5451 said:


> I will update again as the planning application progresses if there is any interest.


 
Yes, please - considering something similar(ish), so very interested to learn of your/other posters' experiences.


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 May 2014)

best advice I could give re planning which is what we did with the house we built 7 years ago is to engage a professional planner to either put together or at the very least review your plans before submission. Our guy cost £350/day and we used 2 days of his time. He was ex-staff in the very planning department we were applying to and knew every little foible we needed to avoid. Plans sailed through with zero objection.


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## Phil Pascoe (22 May 2014)

Yes. Bite the bullet and pay up front. Get your retaliation in first!


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## dericlen (24 May 2014)

Hi,
I have done this "self build" thing four times now, the last one completed 2011 at age 75 in timber frame (the building that is!!)
The whole framing structure fabricated on site, under floor heating, A/C, sheep's wool insulation, rainwater harvesting wheelchair access to showers etc etc.
The biggest advantage being you plan to your own requirement, what where how big/small right down to the very smallest detail, especially when it comes to electrics.
Go for it.
dericlen


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## powertools (29 May 2014)

Well I hope that we have done this the right way but only time will tell. When we first came up with the idea we did consult two planning advisers who both said we should be able to get planning permission for our project but advised that we should apply to the council with an informal application one wanted £400 and the other £600 both plus VAT and the fee to the council of a further £150 and the result is in no way binding.
Our council allows you to turn up at the office and have a brief chat with a planning officer which we did and were told that we could do an informal application ourselves with very basic plans and that is what we did and were then given detailed advice of what they would be likely to allow and that was after a planning officer had visited the site.
We then modified our plans to take into account their requirements and then started the long haul of finding an architect to put our ideas into a practical application and that is where the fun begins.
To be continued if there is any interest.


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 May 2014)

That's excellent. It sounds like your local council have really got their act together in terms of assisting people to plan. That approach completely obviates the need for a consultant planner. If we had been able to take that route we would have jumped at the chance. In our case, you were lucky to be able to access plans from their library in under an hour long wait. The difference in service from one council to another is staggering.


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## powertools (24 Jun 2014)

After months of design work and research the formal planning application is now in.
Having paid the local council £185 for pre planning advice and then a further £385 for the planning application I have to say that I am shocked that they now want another £600 in legal fees.
The planning application will have a section 106 charge on it of around £11000 and I have had to supply the details from the deeds to prove that I own the property outright but the council legal department require the £600 to verify that that information is correct. No wonder that there is a shortage of housing in this country.


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## powertools (26 Jun 2014)

We have now been given the date of August the 5th as the date when we will know the outcome of the application and next Monday is the day when it is being discussed at the local Parish Council. It will be interesting to hear the views of local people to our plans.


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## powertools (29 Jul 2014)

Well it's been a long journey and a steep learning curve that I was going to share the experience with others who may be thinking of a similar project, coming up with an idea then talking to the local planning dept then finding an architect who we could work with who doesn't think that he is gods gift to buildings and planning and charges prices that are out of this world but after the last post it seems that there is little interest so to wind this up the Parish council meeting went well and they had no objections and today we have been told that we have been granted full planning permission by the district council.
We now know what we can do and the next step is to raise short term finance to build the ultimate hobby wood workshop and a house that fits our needs for the foreseeable future, after that comes building control then the build can begin.


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## Charlie Woody (29 Jul 2014)

Delighted to hear that you got planning permission, which is only what you deserve from the effort you put into doing the right research etc. I wish you every success with the build & sale of existing house. I would be interested to hear, & see photos, as the project progresses.


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## Wuffles (30 Jul 2014)

Are you going to use Council building control or an independent? We went independent as it was cheaper, plus our place is being built off the drawings on the back of a fag packet - couldn't justify any of the architects we met for exactly the reasons you stated.

I'm on a phone right now so it may become obvious when I get back to a computer, but where in the UK are you based?

Edit: I see, Bedfordshire.

I can recommend the Indy route, especially if you rather not give the Council any more money


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## gregmcateer (30 Jul 2014)

That's great news, PT.

Don't for one minute think there isn't interest here - I suspect people don't want to keep pestering for info and/or are fighting their own battles in other walks of life.

It would be great to see the plans, etc - An easy way for you may be to put the planning authority and application number on here and those that are interested could go online and look for themselves - Just a thought.

Though you may end up with dozens of different views of how this than and t'other could be changed!!

Good luck with the next stages - the scary bit is when the real money starts to go out - My brother and I are having a house built as a development project, (not for either of us to live in) and the foundations, blockwork, bricks, tiles, INSULATION!!! - Many it adds up.

Having said that, as others have said, don't be put off - if you want it enough and have got the energy you will end up with a wonderful place to retire, with the added satisfaction of having caused it to happen.

Best wishes

Greg


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## KevM (30 Jul 2014)

on 24 Jun 2014 powertools":3io74tlc said:


> The planning application will have a section 106 charge on it of around £11000 ...



I understood that Section 106 charges were going to be scrapped for smaller developments, has this not been enacted yet?

P.S. I'm following your trials and tribulations with interest/morbid curiosity - please keep up the posts!

Edit, just read the following:


> Why only 'affordable housing' contributions?
> Government research has found that the 'affordable housing' justification accounts for around half of the value of all planning obligations. The Department for Communities & Local Government appears to have decided to focus on tackling this element of the contributions, although the consultation does invite views on a possible extension of the exemption to other tariffs and justifications for planning obligations.
> The move should therefore remove a large part of the burden of Section 106 charges, but may still leave self builders exposed to the elements of S106 that apply to 'infrastructure' improvements (which should be charged on a proportional basis to the impact of the development).


So I guess the infrastructure element is still there.


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## powertools (30 Jul 2014)

I will keep the thread going, for selfish reasons I am going to need a lot of advise over the coming months but I feel that the professionals among you may also learn something from the experiences of a self builder and how we view our interaction with the professionals in the building trade.
Yesterday we were elated that we got our permission but today we have been informed by our architect that he has not got time to do our building control drawings we are a bit sad about that because we got on well with him but we have grown to expect that while all these professionals are busy they will go for the easy money.
With regards to the section 106 charges there has been a government consultation the results of which have still not been published I did phone the The Department for Communities & Local Government and the advice I was given was to delay putting in our application for 2 months but that was nearly 3 months ago and we felt that we could not delay things any longer and as things stand at the moment we are committed to paying £11638 if we start the build but none of that is for affordable housing so I guess that we will have to pay that amount if there is a major change between now and when we start we will try to renegotiate the amount or just submit the same application that will have the charges in force at the time applied to it.
To be fair I can understand that a new house build should contribute to the existing infrastructure but I was really annoyed that the council wanted £600 in legal fees to set this up followed by another £360 if we proceed with the build for them to oversee that the £11638 has been paid.


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## Wuffles (30 Jul 2014)

We didn't have building control drawings done. See my post above.

We did use professionals I trust at each stage and the building control guys (independents) would give advice on what they'd like to see in each section. Cavity size etc., which doesn't normally deviate from what the people who actually do this for a living are used to putting in themselves - normally anyway.

For example, roofer wanted to put 90mm insulation in the flat roof, building control want 120mm - no problem (provided you find out first of course, which we did). Got an email in with the building control guys now regarding size and spec of lintels for above doors and windows, so they're pretty helpful people.


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## Charlie Woody (30 Jul 2014)

Wuffles":3mnshr65 said:


> We didn't have building control drawings done. See my post above.
> 
> We did use professionals I trust at each stage and the building control guys (independents) would give advice on what they'd like to see in each section. Cavity size etc., which doesn't normally deviate from what the people who actually do this for a living are used to putting in themselves - normally anyway.
> 
> For example, roofer wanted to put 90mm insulation in the flat roof, building control want 120mm - no problem (provided you find out first of course, which we did). Got an email in with the building control guys now regarding size and spec of lintels for above doors and windows, so they're pretty helpful people.



If you don't have Buildings Control Certificate of Completion & you ever want to sell the property you may have problems as it might be deemed not built in accordance with Buildings Control. As far as I know once it's built there is no way of getting certification. There may be others ways of getting certified that will achieve the same ends, if done during the building work. At the end of the day it has to be saleable in the future. I recommend seeking the advice of a good quality conveyancing solicitor to establish what your options are. If you don't know a suitable one I used to know a really good one in North London some years ago. If you would like his details PM me please.


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## Wuffles (30 Jul 2014)

Erm yes, but that's not what I said.


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## Wuffles (30 Jul 2014)

Wuffles":3kfgtg43 said:


> Are you going to use Council building control or an independent? We went independent as it was cheaper, plus our place is being built off the drawings on the back of a fag packet - couldn't justify any of the architects we met for exactly the reasons you stated.



This bit I was referring to specifically.

My point was that you don't need drawings for building control from an architect, obviously you need building control sign off or you could have the whole thing pulled down let alone not be able to sell it.


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## Charlie Woody (31 Jul 2014)

Wuffles":32d6kh09 said:


> Wuffles":32d6kh09 said:
> 
> 
> > Are you going to use Council building control or an independent? We went independent as it was cheaper, plus our place is being built off the drawings on the back of a fag packet - couldn't justify any of the architects we met for exactly the reasons you stated.
> ...



Sorry I misread / misunderstood your post!


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## powertools (31 Jul 2014)

Thanks to those of you who have given me some encouragement.
Although most of my woodworking projects are worked out on the fag packet as I go along I feel that for a project of this size and that will need the help of many different trades a set of detailed plans is essential to avoid any confusion when it comes to costings.
At the moment we feel a bit let down by the architect but the priority now is to get a fairly accurate estimate of costs in order to see if we can arrange some short term finance for the build and are now in the process of getting the quote for the gas and electricity supplies installed.
Once we know the likely costs of the project including all the services, the section 106 to the council, the legal fees to alter the deeds of the existing house and create new deeds for the new house and the cost of the build to a dry shell we will then know the amount we need to raise in order to proceed if we can raise that we will then spend the extra money on the detailed drawings.


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## Wuffles (31 Jul 2014)

Talking of Gas...we were on oil when we moved in. Range cooker broke (that did the hot water and heating too) so we switched to Air Source heat pumps. They're terribly expensive to buy, but probably not as expensive as having a new gas feed put in - depending on distance anyway.

Our electric bills annually for 24/7 heating at 20 degrees C and for all our hot water come to approximately £1,600 (ish). Less what we get back for the solar panels on the workshop which is about £600pa - we're not on an amazing tariff either.

Do some costings and weigh up all the options before opting for gas, unless you REALLY want gas.

Just some food for thought.

And I agree with you on the drawings, just making you aware, it's not a necessity or the end of the world if you don't have them.

Whilst I'm rambling, it's worth stating that detail drawings aren't always right and that a decent trade will sometimes know better/more than an architect in that they actually put these things in day in day out, rather than hypothesize.


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## powertools (3 Sep 2014)

Just a quick update we have gone through the process of getting the costings of the project together and are now going to try and find the short term finance so we can begin.
This is a long hard road to go down and for anybody else thinking of doing a similar thing what you think will take 12 months to complete will take 2 years at best.


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## Zeddedhed (3 Sep 2014)

As a builder/site manager one of the things that i would recommend you pay particular attention to are the actual construction details.
For example, its not uncommon for architects to specify internal stud walls as 3 x 2 with 12.5mm plasterboard either side. Now I know that this is fairly standard, but it's also utterly useless. Every time a door slams or someone sneezes the whole house can hear it. 4 x 2 stud work as a minimum. After that I would then line all stud walls with 12 or 18mm sheet goods - cheapest available is probably OSB. With the wall fully filled with acoustic rock wool and then plaster boarded and skimmed its actually structurally stronger than a clockwork wall and much more soundproof. You can hang shelves, cupboards etc wherever you like. Downside is cost, more trouble with electrical back boxes (the sparks will moan) and you'll need thicker non-standard door linings.

This is just one example of things you might want to discuss with whoever is drawing up the Build regs drawings and the builder.
You'll be gutted if after you've moved in you can hear toilets flushing four rooms away and you could have solved it during the build.

HTH

Pete


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## flying haggis (3 Sep 2014)

just to chuck in my tupenceworth re the gas supply, my wife and i had a timber frame house built over twenty years ago and we are still here, i did all the electrics, second fix plumbing /woodwork etc.

when it came to the gas, there is none available in our village (5 miles from where most of britians gas comes into the country!!) so we had oil heating but bottled gas just for cooking,
one 47kg propane lasts about 10 months


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## Leif (4 Sep 2014)

There are quite a few parcels of land selling near me. The latest is 2.5 acres for 70 grand. No planning permission. Seems an expensive gamble to me, since at that price it is not for farming.


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