# Spehar toolworks, Adria, et al



## ydb1md (21 Jun 2005)

Does anyone, in addition to Philly, own a Spehar saw?

I'm getting close to purchasing my first western-style dovetail saw and am having a hard time choosing between the LN, Adria and Spehar offerings. I might have to go with the Spehar because it's just so unique.

I'm sure that if the same person set and sharpened the three saws they'd cut between a gnats whisker of each other.

Anyone have any comparisons to offer up?


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## Philly (21 Jun 2005)

Dave
Alright-you don't want to hear from me, fair enough! :wink: 
I also have two Lie-Nielsen dovetail saws-the regular one and a straight handled crosscut d/s. They are both gems!
Vlad's saws are great (and excellent value for a tailor made tool!!)-We truly are spoiled for choice when it comes to high quality tools!
Cheers
Philly


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## ydb1md (21 Jun 2005)

Phil,

Is a comparison of your two "regular" dt saws out of the question? :wink: 

I've been checking out Vlad's site and he's just had another "addition" to the family so he's talking about scaling back his work.


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## ike (21 Jun 2005)

Well, as I have all 3, I'll happily recommend that the best one of all is the ..... <ahhhh....slowly drifts out of blissful dream>. 

The Gloatmeister I suspect is best placed as I believe you've got 2 out of the 3 haven't you? . 

I can only speak for the Adrias. What are the criteria in choosing such high quality tools? Truth probably is for all of them that their cutting performance is within a gnats danglies of perfection.

cheers

Ike


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## Frank D. (21 Jun 2005)

I think the biggest and most significant difference is with the handles, and how they feel in your hand. Unfortunately few of us ever have a chance to try them all out. I've tried Adria and LN and I ended up with LN saws, but that's just what my hand told me to buy. 
HTHBIPSIW
(hope this helps but I'm pretty sure it won't),
Frank


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## Philly (21 Jun 2005)

Dave
My Spehar is a tenon saw-so can't help you there, although the quality is of a very high standard and it cuts like a dream. I imagine the D/T saw would be great, although the handle is an interesting angle...
As to the L-N's.....
Standard D/T saw (open handle) is real nice. Feels great in the hand, starting the cut is "interesting" due to the rip teeth, but once started cuts quick and true. A real pleasure to use (and if you've seen Rob Cosman using one you really gotta have one!! :roll: )
The straight handled crosscut D/T saw is another matter-lighter than the regular saw. Easier to start the cut, cuts nearly as fast as the rip (both are 15 tpi) But this saw is for finer work (IMHO) It provides amazing amounts of feedback and is fantasic to use. The straight handle is pretty comfortable and allows different grips. It kinda feels like a Jap saw at times.....
So which would I recommend? That's like asking which ONE plane should you buy! :lol: :lol: 
Sorry 
Philly


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## ydb1md (21 Jun 2005)

I just received an email from Vlad and he's definitely scaling back production or stopping altogether. I definitely want to get a saw from him before that happens.


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## Philly (21 Jun 2005)

Better go for it, then!!! :shock: 
Philly


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## Ed451 (22 Jun 2005)

I've had a Spehar dovetail saw for a while and recently ordered two tenon saws. I can't wait for them to arrive. I've never held an Adria or a LN, so I can't offer an opinion on them, but I really like my Spehar. I should warn you though, I'm clannish and would buy an Adria or Spehar simply because they're Canadian.

Ed


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## Philly (22 Jun 2005)

Nice one Ed! :lol: 
And welcome to the forum  
Cheers
Philly


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## Pete W (22 Jun 2005)

Ed451":2rtmha1y said:


> I've had a Spehar dovetail saw for a while and recently ordered two tenon saws.



Another stylish debut! 

Welcome to the workshop, Ed.


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## Alf (22 Jun 2005)

Pete W":1o12mqpw said:


> Ed451":1o12mqpw said:
> 
> 
> > I've had a Spehar dovetail saw for a while and recently ordered two tenon saws.
> ...


Yes indeed; welcome, Ed. Seems you're a natural for these parts. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (22 Jun 2005)

Do you all prefer a 3 or 4 finger grip?


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## Philly (22 Jun 2005)

Three
Philly


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## Frank D. (22 Jun 2005)

Three (except when I'm using both hands and pushing with one foot :wink: )
Frank


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## Ed451 (22 Jun 2005)

Three fingers here. A thumb groove is nice too!

Thanks, everyone, for the kind words.

Ed


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## ydb1md (23 Jun 2005)

Is the 3/4 cutout in the LN and Spehar handles used for hanging the saws for storage?


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## ydb1md (23 Jun 2005)

Philly,

I notice that you don't mention the Paragon dovetail saw hanging on your wall. Is it that bad? :wink: 

Dave


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## SlimShavings (23 Jun 2005)

I just bought to of Vlad's saws a few months back.. I have two PAX tenon and dovetail saws but they don't cut for mud (gonna have to take time and redo them) and the handles are too small. The saws I got from vlad cut like butter and the handles are extrordinary. Outstanding IMHO =D>


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## Frank D. (23 Jun 2005)

ydb1md":2vay6hbe said:


> Is the 3/4 cutout in the LN and Spehar handles used for hanging the saws for storage?



I've heard a lot of explanations for the function of that cutout, but the hanging slot theory actually makes sense; I tried it out and the saw balances almost perfectly in upright position. I've always used it as a cigar holder. 8)
Frank


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## Philly (23 Jun 2005)

Dave
Is that the Pax saw in the bottom your talking about??
It has winged its way to a fellow forum member when my 2nd L-N saw turned up. (Guess I should update the photo's on my website, then :lol: )
Cheers
Philly


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## Chris Knight (23 Jun 2005)

Philly,
Why do you keep showing us that rotten bench? do you want us to feel sorry for you? Shall we club together to get you one without scratches? :lol:


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## Alf (23 Jun 2005)

Dave! He doesn't need help! Put the picture away, man... #-o 

Now that exaggerated notch would be just the job to take the string for a wooden blade guard, like the top one here:





Cheers, Alf


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## Philly (23 Jun 2005)

Sorry Chris-its my "working" bench! Need to pick up one for photographic purposes....... :lol: 
Cheers
Philly


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## bugbear (23 Jun 2005)

> Need to pick up one for photographic purposes....



Lie Nielsen make a bench, I'm told.:twisted:

BugBear


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## Alf (23 Jun 2005)

ROTFL :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: A match made in heaven, that'd be. :lol: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Philly (23 Jun 2005)

Hah Hah, Paul! :lol: 
Can you imagine the carriage costs on a bench?
Cheers
Nothavingoneofthem


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## Alf (23 Jun 2005)

Yeah, but what a gloat. One of only "X" in the country and all that. Bet you're tempted now, eh...? :wink: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (23 Jun 2005)

Has anyone ordered a saw from Vlad with a 1" back?


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## Anonymous (23 Jun 2005)

waterhead37":2dqpbgnd said:


> Why do you keep showing us that rotten bench?



philly, that is immaculate when compared to mine :twisted: I should get the free LN bench from the forum  :wink:


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## Philly (23 Jun 2005)

Yeah, thats going to happen! :wink: :lol: 
Gotta live in hope though, 'eh? :lol: 
Philly


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## MikeW (23 Jun 2005)

Tony":3pvk0khw said:


> waterhead37":3pvk0khw said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you keep showing us that rotten bench?
> ...


Now now, I just hate to see such rivalry amonst friends. Tell you what. I'll take the bench as mine is, well, worn. Not worn out mind you. Lovingly sawn into, bruised from much choping on, and scarred from the odd dobs of glue being scraped off.

And besides, shipping to my house would be much cheaper for y'all in your oh so generous an offer...

But really, why would I want to replace my Frankenbench with a "proper" one that has no tales to tell...


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## Jake (23 Jun 2005)

Well if you will insist on using the wrong vice, Tony


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## Ed451 (23 Jun 2005)

> Has anyone ordered a saw from Vlad with a 1" back?



The two tenon saws I have on order will have 1" backs.

Ed


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## ydb1md (23 Jun 2005)

Ed451":cxluxrqu said:


> > Has anyone ordered a saw from Vlad with a 1" back?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How much extra was the 1" back? I couldn't find the info on his forms.

Vlad told me he's been swamped with orders the past few days. 
Wonder why? :-k


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## Ed451 (23 Jun 2005)

I'm not sure what caused the sudden influx of orders, but if you look at his posting entitled "23 March 2003" he states the 8" dovetail saw is available with a 3/4" back or a 1" back and all the other saws are made with a 1" back. I take this to be a permanent change, but that's just my opinion. I'm sure Vlad's open to discussion and requests.

I recently sent him a link to this discussion on this forum, so hopefully he'll read this and let us know what's up.

I paid $130 each for 12" tenon saws: 1 rip and 1 crosscut. Hopefully, they'll be here next week or so.

Ed

(rubbing hands together with a fiendish grin)


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## ydb1md (24 Jun 2005)

Ed,

When you ordered your saws, was Cocobolo available or is Rosewood the only handle option?

Dave


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## Ed451 (24 Jun 2005)

I'm pretty sure Vlad will use whatever wood you like. I like rosewood so I didn't look any further. There may, of course, be a surcharge for a more expensive wood.

I wish we could get Vlad onto this forum. 

Ed


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## ydb1md (24 Jun 2005)

Man, I'm slow. I finally realized that Rosewood and Cocobolo are used interchangeably sometimes. Cocobolo is in the Rosewood family. All cocobolo is Rosewood but not all Rosewood is Cocobolo. ](*,) #-o =P~


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## Ed451 (24 Jul 2005)

OK, prepare for a blatent gloat from me:

My two new saws arrived this week. Today's my day off and I'm off to make some tenons.

Ed :twisted: :tool:


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## ydb1md (24 Jul 2005)

Ok Ok . . . 

Any pics?

Here's to hoping that mine shows up soon . . . [-o<


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## Alf (24 Jul 2005)

Ed, you need Philly's Correspondence Course in Advanced Gloating. We need pics! Preferably with gratuitous shots of other desirable tools/timber or even - gasp - completed work demonstrating show-off joinery in the background. :lol: Have fun, and any feedback on them welcomed.  

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (25 Jul 2005)

Hmmm . . . 

Is there a disciplinary action for an improper gloat?

More pics . . . ? An extended review . . . ?


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## Ed451 (25 Jul 2005)

There won't be any pics until the missus gets back from her trip, since she took the camera with her. I'm making a screen door for one of my coworkers, and this is my first attempt at tenons so I expect there'll be lots and lots of use for my LV Medium shoulder plane. Hmmmm, guess I'd better go sharpen it. I'll get some pics once I'm able.

Ed


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## Ed451 (25 Jul 2005)

How's that, better?

Ed


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## MikeW (25 Jul 2005)

Ed451":1tlcejp1 said:


> How's that, better?
> Ed


 \/ =D> ...


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## Alf (25 Jul 2005)

Well I won't go as far as Mike, but you're definitely getting the idea now. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## ydb1md (11 Aug 2005)

Ed451":25i11lt1 said:


> There won't be any pics until the missus gets back from her trip, since she took the camera with her. I'm making a screen door for one of my coworkers, and this is my first attempt at tenons so I expect there'll be lots and lots of use for my LV Medium shoulder plane. Hmmmm, guess I'd better go sharpen it. I'll get some pics once I'm able.
> 
> Ed



Got any pics of the saws Ed? How do they cut?

I'm still watching the mail for mine. :roll:


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## Ed451 (11 Aug 2005)

I'll take a few for you. I've only cut pine so far, which isn't really a good test of the saws since you could probably cut it with a dinner knife.  

Ed


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## ydb1md (11 Aug 2005)

I got an email from Vlad last night. My saw is finished, he just hasn't had time to mail it. Crossing my fingers that I see it this weekend. [-o<


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## SlimShavings (11 Aug 2005)

ED451
My thought is that if you can do nice crisp and clean joint in pine your on the HI roadn IMHO \/


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## Ed451 (12 Aug 2005)

Ok, I'll add some pics of the mortises and tenons I'm cutting as well, then. They ain't pretty, but you asked for it.

Ed


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## Ed451 (12 Sep 2005)

Hi everyone,

I liked the look of my Spehar saws, until I compared them with LN saws. After spending a day with Rob Cosman, I had the opportunity to compare LN saws to my equivalent Spehar offerings. Mine are massive compared to LN's copies of Disstons. I don't mind that, but in my rip tenon saw, the teeth were not evenly cut and the fit and finish of the metal parts was not equal to that of the LN saws. The blades were not as straight. For $ 130 US each, I really expect a better comparison between the two. Regretfully, I've emailed Vlad to arrange returns of my saws so that I can purchase LN's. It saddens me to do this, because I was really looking forward to learning to use them as they were. I thought my dovetail saw cut like a dream (not knowing any better) until I tried a LN dovetail saw. A fair comparison between my dovetail saw and Rob's LN would be like a steak-knife and a scalpel. I was able to cut fitting dovetails with my saw, but it was about 10X harder to start the cut and not nearly as smooth. For the price I paid, my saw should have cut as, or almost as, smoothly as the LN.

I feel I must apologize to this forum for promoting Spehar saws as I previously did: I obviously did not know what I was talking about.

Ed


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## MikeW (12 Sep 2005)

Well, I'm sorry they didn't work out for you, Ed.

It's dissappointing, I'm sure. You will like the LN saws. They are nice saws. But so are good vintage saws if you want to take the time to clean them up and sharpen them. And they'll work every bit as good as the LN.

I've got both a couple LN and some vintage saws. That said, I wouldn't be getting rid of my LNs in order to get vintage either.

When you get the LN saws we'll rejoice with you that you have something you will be pleased with--no apology necessary for me.

Mike


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## Frank D. (12 Sep 2005)

No sweat Ed,
Enthusiasm for a new tool is a great feeling and it's quite understandable to communicate that to others. And sometimes as we come to know a tool better and try out others we change our minds, that happens to everyone once in a while. It's the same thing with methods of work, we learn and make progress and move on. I appreciate the follow up, you could have said nothing but you chose to be forthright about it. That takes strength of character and it shows you care.
Frank


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## Chris Knight (12 Sep 2005)

Ed,

How disappointing for you, thanks for letting us know. I wonder though if you are comparing the saws as standard? I have the LN's and like them but I suspect that Cosman's may have been fettled (he certainly refers in to this in his talks at the shows - things like stoning the saw) to the point where they perform a lot better than the LN saw straight form the factory.


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## ydb1md (12 Sep 2005)

Ed,

Sorry to hear that the Spehars didn't work out for you. I agree that they are rather, uhm, big in their presentation. That works for my tastes but I'm sure it doesn't appeal to all. I'd like to get a Lie Nielsen crosscut saw eventually and I imagine its personality will be very different from the Spehar.

You'll have to do a comparison test for us when you get your LN's. 

Dave


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## bugbear (12 Sep 2005)

> Mine are massive compared to LN's copies of Disstons.



LN didn't copy Disstons.

http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=DS

"They are an exact copy of a British saw made in 1830. "

Hurrah for Britannia!

BugBear


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## Ed451 (12 Sep 2005)

Thanks for the kind words, everyone. Telling you all the difference, in my mind, was the only right thing to do.

Bugbear, I stand corrected.

Waterhead37, you're probably right there, but Rob tried my saws as well and stoned one side of the dovetail saw to try to straighten the cut....no cigar, however.

Dave, you're right about the saws being gifted in stature, and I don't mind that, but for $130 US, I should expect the teeth to be cut evenly shouldn't I?

Ed


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## bugbear (12 Sep 2005)

> I should expect the teeth to be cut evenly shouldn't I?



"Maybe"

http://nika.frontier.iarc.uaf.edu/~cswi ... =1#message

BugBear


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## Ed451 (12 Sep 2005)

OK, Bugbear, you may have an arguement there, I'm too novice to know. It would be nice to see Tom Law belly-up-to-the-bar on this one.

Ed


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## Philly (12 Sep 2005)

Ed
Rob C's only problem is his undying love for LN!! He will dis any other make, regardless of how good..... :roll: 
Cheers
NotasbiassedPhilly :lol:


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## Ed451 (12 Sep 2005)

Well, you can't blame him for believing in the products he sells. I left out a lot of our conversation, and I'm not adding it now to take up for Rob, but in honesty, Rob did not critique my saw until I told him how much I paid, which was close to the same price as a LN. Any way you look at it, the truth is the truth.

Now, when it comes to LV vs LN, Rob is a tool snob. I get a kick out of him.

If I'm wrong, I'm not afraid to admit my mistake, learn from it and move on.

Ed


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Sep 2005)

Chris wrote:


> I suspect that Cosman's may have been fettled (he certainly refers in to this in his talks at the shows - things like stoning the saw) to the point where they perform a lot better than the LN saw straight form the factory.



I am curious to know how Rob's LNs may have been fettled. 

Using a LN Independence saw is a learning experience. I am not sure if many, if any, find it easy to use first time up. I have been using mine for about 18 months now, and only now am starting to feel confident _starting a cut_ (I guess I am a slow learner  ). The teeth are set up more vertically (=aggressively) than my other rip dovetail saws, and they need to be startled with a more upward rake as a result. Other dovetail saws I have cut as straight as the LN, perhaps less slowly, but start more easily - which does make the process less stressful. These saws can be used on the horizontal. A look at their teeth reveals that they are raked more like a x-cut. 

I can't believe that fettling the set (of a saw that is out of the LN factory) is going to make it start more easily. These saws are set up pretty well when they come out of the box. As I understand it, Rob (certainly in his videos) only stones the set to make it track better. On the other hand, if we were talking of a non-LN saw that had obviously too much set, and it cut a wide kerf, then I could understand that stoning the set would make for a more efficient cut. But the LN comes with "minimal" set already.

So the only alternative is that Rob must refile the teeth, per se. If he does this, then it is no longer a "LN", it is a "Rob Cosman". 

As an aside, a few weeks ago I visited the Perth Woodworking Show, where I bought a circa 1950-60 10" Spear dovetail saw with a truly ugly handle. Essentially I was looking for a goodish blade with a brass back that I could use to make a dovetail saw (i.e build a nice handle, file and set the teeth). The teeth looked about 15 tpi and x-cut. Before I removed the terrible handle I decided to give it a go. Well blow me down - it cut beautifully: started easily, cut straight and smoothly, although the kerf was a little wider than that of the LN. Is there a moral to this story? I guess it is that there are a goodly number of terrific dovetail saws out there that are not badged "LN". 

Anyway, I would like to hear about your views on Robs' fettling.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Chris Knight (12 Sep 2005)

Derek,
I can't recall what Rob said in any detail but he certainly talked of stoning the saw. I don't know if he has done any more than this.


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## bugbear (13 Sep 2005)

> I can't recall what Rob said in any detail but he certainly talked of stoning the saw. I don't know if he has done any more than this.



Heh. Given the cost of your day with him, I'm sure Rob would answer this question if you emailed him.

I for one woujld like to know if the saw was a "LN" or a "Cosman".

BugBear (with several "BugBear" saws, in this new parlance)


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## Anonymous (13 Sep 2005)

bugbear":3esc99xw said:


> > Mine are massive compared to LN's copies of Disstons.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Perhaps Ed was thinking of the LN tenon saws which are copies of the Disston #4.


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## Anonymous (13 Sep 2005)

I thought they bought Independence Saw from a fellow named Pete Taran. Just adding to the fun here...

D


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Sep 2005)

> I thought they bought Independence Saw from a fellow named Pete Taran.



Hi Doug

Yes LN did do so, but Pete's design was based on a mid 1800's British saw.

It does get convoluted, doesn't it.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Anonymous (14 Sep 2005)

Hi Guys and Gals,

First time poster, long time listener

I have spent allot of time watching Rob at the local woodshow. Matter of fact, this year I think I will bring a chair.

Rob has pretty much perfected the dovetail joint and is a very well established Craftsman. 

From what I can tell Rob likes to check the set of all dovetail saws he sells/ That doesn't mean LN makes an inferior saw with poor set but rather that Rob likes to make sure each and every client who purchases a saw gets a saw which works extremely well. 

When a customer buys a saw. Rob will unpack it, and take a test cut, if the set can be improved he will stone the saw, if the saw is fine he will leave it alone.

Tis nice to buy a tool from someone who is well versed in dovetailing and have him comfirm your new tool performs to his expectations.

That is why on my Christmas list sits saws from LN which state "Have ROb check teh Set before he ships the saw!!!!"

Dan Clermont


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## Alf (14 Sep 2005)

Welcome to the forum, Dan. So on the BugBear Scale of Dovetail Saw Classification, you want a Cosman?  Didn't realise he did that; I could have sworn I heard him extolling the virtues of the LN 'cos they'll work right out of the box. 

Hey BB, dare you to take a BugBear to Axminster and ask Rob whether he'd stone it back or not. (Before you ask, no, I won't - I know my limitations!  )

For your amusement, early talk of the IT saw on The Porch. Take the option to "up (browse index)" from there and as you wander through the archives you'll no doubt stumble upon further excitement. Unless you can make the search work better than I can, in which case you needn't take the scenic route. 

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (14 Sep 2005)

Hi ALf,

We are talking veryminor tweaks like maybe one or two swipes with a stone followed by a test cut.

I own a Tom Law sharpened Sorby Brass Backed saw filed 15TPI Rip for dovetailing as well.

The Tom Law cuts faster then the LN but the set is wider and the saw does not track as well. The LN cuts with more precision and less dovetail sidewall damage.

Both saws make nice dovetails although I tend not to try to split the line with the SOrby and end up paring. The important thing is to buy a saw and learn how to use that saw.

Dan Clermont


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## bugbear (15 Sep 2005)

> The important thing is to buy a saw and learn how to use that saw.



Yeah - the Kirby book recommends before cutting practice dovetails, just marking a load of parallel sloping cuts on a piece of wood and cutting them.

He's talking BULK practise here, like golfers or tennis players. 20 cuts on the end of the piece, cross cut them off, mark again, do it again.

When you can make decent saw cuts, he suggests moving on to joints.

But not before.

BugBear


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## Ed451 (16 Sep 2005)

When Rob was teaching me, he had me draw a series of vertical lines on the end and over the top edge of a board (held vertically in a vise). I then started at the left side of the board and sawed on the left side of the lines until I got to the middle. I was then to start at the right side of the board and saw on the right side of the lines, until I got back to the middle again. If 95+ % of the saw cuts were not parallel with the lines, I had to repeat the exercise until I got it right.
To practice starting the saw, I sawed while moving the saw to one side or the other, thus plowing a trough in the end of the board. When Rob said "now", I cut into the board at that location.
To someone who has never seen sawing exercises before, this is neat.

Ed


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## Anonymous (16 Sep 2005)

] things like stoning the saw) to the point where they perform a lot better than the LN saw straight form the factory.[/quote said:


> I am curious to know how Rob's LNs may have been fettled.
> 
> Using a LN Independence saw is a learning experience. I am not sure if many, if any, find it easy to use first time up.
> Derek



I am really surprised by this Derek.

I have not touched my LN Independance saw with a stone since it arrived from the factory and have found it amazingly easy to use from the box. I guess it might be down to experience with other saws or style or something - or the hours I spent watching RC cut DTs with one first


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Sep 2005)

> .. Using a LN Independence saw is a learning experience. I am not sure if many, if any, find it easy to use first time up.
> (Derek)
> ...I have not touched my LN Independance saw with a stone since it arrived from the factory and have found it amazingly easy to use from the box(Tony)



Hi Tony

I am not the only one with this experience, and it is not about the set of the teeth. My LN Independence cuts very straight (are there really degrees of straight? :-k ). So it is still in original condition. It starts better now than 18 months ago but only because I have learned how to use it. I do have to point it differently than I do other dovetail saws. Tony, Have you used many other rip-filed dovetail saws, and what were they like?

It would be interesting to hear the experiences of others here who have used this saw.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Philly (16 Sep 2005)

Derek
There is a learning curve with the LN saw-starting the cut is the hardest part. Once started the saw is a dream!
I find that taking most of the weight of the saw when starting the cut is best, as well as saw upwards at a fair old angle (say 45 degrees).
Hope this helps
Philly


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## Waka (16 Sep 2005)

Your right the LN DT saw does taske some getting used to, I masde som little giudes of the required DT angle that are rebated and fit over the wood, by holding the blade against this jig I can get a good start no problem and once its started it holds is line. Something very simple but it works for me.


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## bugbear (16 Sep 2005)

> It starts better now than 18 months ago but only because I have learned how to use it.



Hmm. Jeff Gorman points out that a slightly blunted saw is easier to start.

Could the new ease perhaps be the result of a combination of this effect and your experience?

The LN is not (thank $DEITY) a hard point saw, so some blunting is to be expected.

BugBear


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (16 Sep 2005)

> Could the new ease perhaps be the result of a combination of this effect and your experience?



Hi BB

No, the ease of starting the LN comes from (1) cutting at a higher angle - pointing the saw upwards (as Philly wrote, at about 45 degrees), and (2) letting the weight of the saw do the work, that is, don't force it.

It takes a conscious effort, more so than my other saws. 

Have you watched Rob Cosman's dovetail videos? Even his starting is a scratchy motion until the teeth get started in the kerf.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Anonymous (16 Sep 2005)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > .. Using a LN Independence saw is a learning experience. I am not sure if many, if any, find it easy to use first time up.
> > (Derek)
> > ...I have not touched my LN Independance saw with a stone since it arrived from the factory and have found it amazingly easy to use from the box(Tony)
> 
> ...



Ahh. Only one other rip filed DT saw. An old Stanley thing with steel back. Cut very nicely 

The other two (I know) DT saws are both cross cut teeth.

I think I see what yoiu are getting at with the cut starting, but I followed RCs advice from day one and pull the saw back all the way along the blade to start the cut gently - I rest the saw against my thumb whilst doing this


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