# Dovetail jig



## DiscoStu (24 Aug 2016)

Guys I'm looking to make a piece as a wedding present and as such I thought I'd have a go at some dovetail joints. 

Now before I go too much further I'd like to put down some boundaries:

1 - I will not be cutting these by hand. I'm sure it's the best way but I don't have the time, skills or most importantly willingness to try. 

2 - This is likely to be a one off and I can't see me dovetailing everything. I've got a domino and pocket hole jig so I'm sorted for most of my normal needs, therefore I am not looking to spend hundreds of pounds on a Leigh. 

So with those ground rules sorted what are the options like:

Axminster 
UJK
Rutlands (15% off at the moment)
Trend - probably too much unless the other options are pointless
Silverline (felt a bit odd even writing that)
Lumber jack (found on eBay)
Machine Mart
Screwfix

A lot of the cheap options seem to be the same item rebadged maybe different router but and comb. 

I assume nowhere hires Leigh jigs for a few days?

Thanks in advance. 




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## marcros (24 Aug 2016)

nobody will hire a leigh, but i imagine that you could buy one on ebay and sell it on afterwards without losing much. That said, the learning curve is steep.


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## DiscoStu (24 Aug 2016)

I didn't think it would be the sort of thing I could hire. I'm not tempted by the eBay option - I know I wouldn't sell it on!! 


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## Woody2Shoes (24 Aug 2016)

Hi - what size dovetails are you planning to make? Most jigs (except perhaps Leigh) only do fairly chunky sizes. Having bought one of these, I'd say an important consideration is being able to get spare cutters - Leigh, Axminster/UJK and Trend are really the only reliable suppliers of spares for their jigs (OK, maybe Rutlands too, at a pinch). I think all the relatively cheap ones are much of a muchness in use, so I'd go for a Trend or Axi/UJK one if I were buying again. Cheers, W2S

PS forgot to add - some designs require guide bushes, which can be a pain to set up - those, like the Axi, that use bearing guided cutters are simpler to set up IMHO


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## Eric The Viking (24 Aug 2016)

Woody2Shoes":7rxh1srl said:


> ... some designs require guide bushes, which can be a pain to set up - those, like the Axi, that use bearing guided cutters are simpler to set up IMHO


I have a SIP one , and have adapted an Axminster fine comb to fit on it. The Axy fine comb does use a gulde bush, and in my experience it's really hard to set up. I think the ordinary Axminster sizes use a bearing, but the pins/tails are a lot bigger.

You might look for a Stots one -- the Dakota one that Rutlands used to sell is an "adaptation" of the design (I think Mr. Stots is no longer of this world). I have one (genuine Stots) but haven't used it yet: it is supposed to be one of the easiest to set up, albeit with much bigger dovetails thatn you'd want for a fine box. As far as I can make out it uses the same cutters and bearings as Leigh.

I can't offer any actual experience with the jig though - mine just gets moved about the workshop at the moment, waiting for some time to play.


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## GrahamF (24 Aug 2016)

I've been toying with the idea of buying a jig and rather like the spec of the Porter cable 4216 which cover quite a range of options and much greater variation in material thickness than most. Anyone have one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORTER-CABLE- ... SwJQdXCLBb


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## MattRoberts (24 Aug 2016)

I have the trend, and really like it - good solid construction and accurate results. 

You'd be welcome to come try it / use it if you're near the Gatwick area?


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## Woody2Shoes (25 Aug 2016)

GrahamF":2od2ki2t said:


> I've been toying with the idea of buying a jig and rather like the spec of the Porter cable 4216 which cover quite a range of options and much greater variation in material thickness than most. Anyone have one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORTER-CABLE- ... SwJQdXCLBb



I have an exact copy of the Porter Cable one - DeWalt sold copies of it for a time. It is well made and is a perfectly good design. I had two issues:
- it requires the US Porter Cable style guide bushes, which require the right base for the router (more cost);
- it uses peculiar (11/32" from memory) sizes of cutter;
- the combs rely on a 7 degree cutter (one of the less popular angles for cutters)

Spare cutters are very hard to find!

Cheers, W2S


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## dzj (25 Aug 2016)

I have one like that Trend kind. There's a bit of fiddling with the depth of cut, but once it's set,
it works fine. Haven't used it in a while, but when the esthetics of the joint doesn't matter, 
they'll save you a lot of time.


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## GrahamF (26 Aug 2016)

Woody2Shoes":34h6uhni said:


> - it uses peculiar (11/32" from memory) sizes of cutter;
> - the combs rely on a 7 degree cutter (one of the less popular angles for cutters)
> 
> Spare cutters are very hard to find!
> ...



Thanks for the warning, sounds like it may be best to avoid bearing in mind postage from US for new cutters etc.


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## DiscoStu (27 Aug 2016)

I'm thinking that the UJK option looks like it might be my best option as it will do through and half blind dovetails and finger joints and isn't that much more than the Axminster jig. I've read the reviews though and they aren't as positive as id like. Nothing terrible just say that it's a pain to adjust etc. 

Anyone got one and got any views on it?


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## Eric The Viking (27 Aug 2016)

Look at this one - it's an exact copy of the Stots one, and supposed to be a doddle to use.

I hardly ever use Rutlands, but I'd buy this if I didn't already have the original. Look on the web for "Template master" reviews from a few years back. IIRC, he made some youtube videos on it too - the trick is using thick paper or a business card to adjust the fit for just the right snugness.

Honestly, the things with levers, etc. Look really hard work in comparison.

E.

PS: Rutlands originally sold something very like this (same technique in use but slightly different design). This one seems to be an exact copy of the Stots original, and thus much better (it's a _master_ template: you can either use it as-is, or make your own "production" templates from it, and as long/wide as you like, and with fingers missing (for fancy-looking joints, etc.) It's not as versatile as the Leigh but then you won't need a second mortgage! I do think it's expensive for what it costs to make, but there are three cutters included (I'm assuming they're decent ones).


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## Steve Maskery (27 Aug 2016)

There is another alternative. Do you have a bandsaw? With a couple of easy-to-make jigs you can cut DTs of any size, at any angle, any spacing. The learning curve is not as steep as the Leigh, and the DTs fit perfectly and are indistinguishable from hand-cut ones.

There are two sources that I know of, Mark Duginski's book and The Fat Woodworker's DVDs*, which are a development of that. If you have the Duginski book, beware that there is a mistake in the text (or a photo caption, one or the other, I forget) where it says WITHOUT when it should read WITH, slightly important.
S

*Forum rules forbid me from being more accurate...


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## custard (27 Aug 2016)

Most of the jigs on your list are far eastern knock offs of the cheaper of the two Porter Cable dovetail jigs. Porter Cable in the US did two variants, one which only produced half blind dovetails, and a slightly more expensive version which produced both half blind and through dovetails. As far as I can see the UJK jig is the only model which follows the general layout of the more expensive Porter Cable version. For what you're looking for the UJK jig seems the one to get. I've not used that, but I have used some other UJK items and they all seemed well engineered, accurate pieces of kit..

These kind of jigs are what they are. They produce dovetails that are a bit blocky and unrefined, anyone who knows about woodworking is unlikely to look at jig made dovetails and gasp in admiration. However, the truth is they're still strong joints that will outlast any pocket hole joinery, and the average person in the street will probably be well impressed!

But, if you ever decide the time's arrived to do the job _right_, then I'm only at the other end of the Solent from you. Drop by the workshop some time and I guarantee I can teach you to cut a _proper_ dovetail in under an hour. Seriously, dovetails are one of those things that are difficult to learn from a YouTube video or a book, but if you stand next to someone at a bench then they really aren't that hard. And it's a skill well worth acquiring, because it's astonishing how many pieces of even quite simple furniture require a dovetail or two somewhere in their construction, they're often hidden from sight so you don't have to cut them like a master. But just knowing you can cut a simple dovetail by hand will massively expand the range of furniture that you could make if you ever wished to.

Good luck!


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## DiscoStu (27 Aug 2016)

Oh gosh! Thanks for the offer Mr Custard. I'm now torn because I really don't want to be going down the hand tool route. It's not really where I want to be but I keep getting such nice offers I feel I should accept some. 

The UJK jig does offer more versatility but I read the reviews and they weren't brilliant. I have also looked at the trend CDJ300 and that can do more than just have blind when you buy additional combs. 

So many options!!!! 


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## Woodmonkey (27 Aug 2016)

Just to confuse you further, you may be able to pick up a second hand wood rat, very versatile bit of kit not only for dovetails...


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## Woody2Shoes (28 Aug 2016)

I think that - as a general rule - much of the negative feedback on these jigs, around the issue of requiring careful adjustment, is based on a desire to blame the tool rather than to acknowledge a lack of clear thinking. Of course all these different makes/models have their own little design foibles, but nearly all are fit for purpose if used by someone who is thinking carefully about what they're doing - they can produce workmanlike (if perhaps sometimes aesthetically bland!) results.

If you're still bent on the machine-based option, the Trend and UKJ / Axi jigs are all perfectly well made and fit for purpose. Cheers, W2S


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## custard (28 Aug 2016)

A furniture maker I know once made a small chest of drawers that he kept in his workshop to help explain to clients where their money was going. 

The bottom drawer was a simple plywood drawer box with an applied front, the next drawer had jig made dovetails, and the top drawer had London pattern, needle dovetails with beaded flush drawer slips, extra thin drawer sides, a Cedar of Lebanon drawer bottom, and a muntin.

One time he'd left a couple alone for a minute and when he returned the husband was showing the wife the jig made dovetail drawer, and banging on about how this was evidence of great craftsmanship and you'd never find quality like this in the High Street.

It'd be a funny story except it shows why it's almost impossible to make a decent living as a custom furniture maker!


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## Eric The Viking (28 Aug 2016)

custard":7rftydue said:


> It'd be a funny story except it shows why it's almost impossible to make a decent living as a custom furniture maker!



Hmm... the gender divide is t'other way round in this household: function over form every time, as long as it's pink (and preferably frilly). 

She has a point (not about pink+frilly, obviously): I do fuss too much over many practical things.

Morris was right about the importance of perceiving things to be beautiful as well as knowing them to be useful. I have a 210-year-old grandfather clock in the hall. It's not especially valuable, but I'm very fond of it. I have to regulate it, but for most of the year I can keep it within +/- 2secs/day. 

I often think about the maker and how he might have worked: He lived in Edinburgh, so long dark winters, with no electric light, in fact no electricity of any sort. He'd have had no Moore + Wright measuring tools, nor modern bearings for his machines, no tungsten tipped cutters, nor posh metallurgy. No CNC milling nor cutting, no dial gauges, diamond scribers and so on.

But he built things of beauty, which not only lasted, but still perform, probably as well they did when new.

Craftsmanship works, evidently.


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## DiscoStu (29 Aug 2016)

Well I ended up with the UJK jig in the end. I popped into Axminster and looked at their cheap one, the UJK and the Leigh. The cheap one to be fair looked ok but the UJK felt much better made with better quality materials. The Leigh looked good and I was a tiny bit tempted but I doubt I'll use it often and by the time you add on the vac hose and stand and then the cutters it makes it more than double the UJK. I did by a Leigh router guide bush adapter so I can use my router with the supplied guide bush. 

I'll have a play this week and see how I get on. 


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## DiscoStu (31 Aug 2016)

I assembled the jig today, two things stood out:

1 it's really well made and excellent quality. I'm very impressed with the construction. 

2 The manual is just about the best manual I've seen. Detailed steps with large colour photos for each step. 

Not used it yet though but hopefully I'll get time soon and make some test cuts. 


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## MattRoberts (31 Aug 2016)

Don't do what I did when I got my trend Jig: make test cuts with the wrong grain direction and then wonder why my tails were snapping off!


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## DiscoStu (1 Sep 2016)

My test bits will be in MDF but I'll take that point on board for the actual thing. Might try and get some rest cuts done today. 


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## DiscoStu (1 Sep 2016)

Well today I did my first ever dovetails. 

I'm very impressed and pleased with the results. Can't believe this is my first attempt







Forgive the angle I was trying not to get phone shadow on it!


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## MattRoberts (1 Sep 2016)

Nice - they look pretty good to me!


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## Woodmonkey (1 Sep 2016)

They look great, how did you find the jig, was it easy to set up? How long did it take to achieve that joint?


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## custard (1 Sep 2016)

DiscoStu":2qlsyl1o said:


> Well today I did my first ever dovetails.
> 
> I'm very impressed and pleased with the results. Can't believe this is my first attempt



You've nailed it, a super strong joint that could last hundreds of years.

=D>


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## Eric The Viking (1 Sep 2016)

That's not just good, it's encouraging too!

Well done.


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## DiscoStu (1 Sep 2016)

Thanks for the encouraging words. 

I have to say that the UJK jig is very good. I think it's a lot better than the Chinese copies. I think it is the same as the Port Cable jig. 

The quality is excellent and importantly the manual is brilliant. Clear, loads of colour photos and step by step instructions. 

I found it easy to use. I promise that the joint in the photo is my first one. 

The only thing that I don't think is great is the dust collection. It's a good idea but the collector has a very wide mouth and that means it loses a lot of suction. A small collector that moves with the router would be better (like the Leigh one)

Overall very impressed. 


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## MattRoberts (2 Sep 2016)

DiscoStu":327zvq8z said:


> Thanks for the encouraging words.
> 
> I have to say that the UJK jig is very good. I think it's a lot better than the Chinese copies. I think it is the same as the Port Cable jig.
> 
> ...


Doesn't your router have dust collection?


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## DiscoStu (2 Sep 2016)

Yes it does, I've got the Festool OF1400 and I did try that but with the copy ring in place there is no space for the air to flow. 


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## Woody2Shoes (3 Sep 2016)

DiscoStu":1h846pwj said:


> I have to say that the UJK jig is very good. I think it's a lot better than the Chinese copies. I think it is the same as the Port Cable jig.
> 
> The quality is excellent and importantly the manual is brilliant. Clear, loads of colour photos and step by step instructions.
> k



Very nice job! Nice crisp lines from a sharp (new!) cutter and careful prep./adjustment.

It's not the same as the Porter Cable/DeWalt one - the dimensions are different.

I think you've hit upon one of the most valuable aspects of the Axi/UKJ offering, for new users, which nobody really mentioned - the quality of the manual. I see another thread elsewhere on the generally very poor quality of documentation from other manufacturers/re-sellers.

Cheers, W2S


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## Eric The Viking (3 Sep 2016)

We met some members of Axi's documentation team on the forum visit a few years back. They're very keen, seeing it both as a cost reducer and a competitive advantage. 

I like the quality and tone of their manuals - they do seem to get it spot-on most of the time. I used to write manuals myself (in another industry), and I know how hard it is, even if you have a well-educated audience. They have to cater for a very wide range of readers, which makes it harder.

I contrast that, for example, with the manual for my "Dakota" wet grinder (Tormek-style): there simply wasn't one, either for it or its accessories. And since I had two machines (the first one failed and was swapped out), I think it was intentional. 

E.


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