# Auto Switch for dust extractor



## andypo (12 Sep 2011)

Hi All.

Has anybody got any ideas on how to make a switch or purchase (not the axminster one as way too expensive) that will start up a portable dust extraction unit when a power tool is turned on. I see from looking on the web that these are available in the states for under £20 but of course they wont work over here. Im looking for something that will send power to the dust extractor once you power up the power tool. I did think that maybe one of those energy saving plugs may work but not sure. 
Any advice appreciated cheers Andy.


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## powertools (12 Sep 2011)

Powersaver adapter will work that is what I use.


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## studders (12 Sep 2011)

They will indeed, says he who also does, though you need to be careful about the rating of the adaptor.


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## andypo (12 Sep 2011)

Hi thanks for advice i tried a eon energy one that i got through post....... is there a delay on yours as my dust extractor takes about 15 secs to start up. Which ones do you use cheers Andy.


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## studders (12 Sep 2011)

Hi, replied by PM to clear up possible confusion (mine).
There's no delay on mine, they're rated at 3KW but.... they do not have a memory facility, which is a bit annoying but not that great an issue.


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## powertools (12 Sep 2011)

Mine is a Masterplug about £15 from B&Q has about a 2 or 3 second delay on start up and the same on overrun.


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## angelboy (12 Sep 2011)

How about plugging it into one of those remote plugs.


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## andypo (12 Sep 2011)

I run my main extractor on a remote switch. Want something that auto starts as soon as I turn power tool on like the festtool extractor but without the silly price.. I know mcallister used to do a vac with this feature but I already have a good vac and want to utilize this there must be a way to do it the eon energy saver does work but the 15 secs waiting for it to start the extractor is a long time


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## Hudson Carpentry (12 Sep 2011)

Never thought about one of them remote control socket adapters. I suspect there IR remotes? If so will be no use to me.


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## studders (12 Sep 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":37cbftr2 said:


> Never thought about one of them remote control socket adapters. I suspect there IR remotes? If so will be no use to me.


Mine are radio frequency I think, no line of sight needed.


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## Hudson Carpentry (12 Sep 2011)

Which one do you have?


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## Tinbasher (13 Sep 2011)

I have used one of those computer sockets for a while now with no problems, I think it was about 10 quid from Wilkinsons.


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## studders (13 Sep 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":2eq44uw9 said:


> Which one do you have?



I bought these ones. Been far more reliable than the set I got from Maplins.


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## wcndave (13 Sep 2011)

I have a makita vac with this built in, and i attached the input to a 6 way bar, and the vacuum to a tube / blast gate system, so every tool i turn on starts the vac, and i have no pipes to connect. this may seem over the top for you, and i thought the same, however i reckon it saves me hours per month, and therefore maybe one working week in a year. Imagine what you could make with an extra 5 days!


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## Hudson Carpentry (13 Sep 2011)

Dope. I just brought a set from your link and realised I have a DOL on my extractor which needs to be pressed for on. There is no permanent on option (hammer) (homer)


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## studders (13 Sep 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":165539vs said:


> Dope. I just brought a set from your link and realised I have a DOL on my extractor which needs to be pressed for on. There is no permanent on option (hammer) (homer)


 :lol: 

Ah well, they'll come in handy for the house.


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## Hudson Carpentry (13 Sep 2011)

Yes ill think ill use them in the cinema and maybe one for the air cleaner in the shop I may build.


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## 9fingers (13 Sep 2011)

There is a related article here http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewto ... =19&t=1961
for anyone who want to use a radio controlled remote switch to control a DC (or other machine) where the machine has a NVR starter and or needs to be powered from a 16amp or higher rated circuit.

Bob


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## andypo (13 Sep 2011)

Hi all and cheers 9fingers but this is not what Im after (although very good info as usual) Im after a switch that recognizes when a hand power tool is switched on/off and automatically turns on/off a shop vac. The eon energy saver does do this but when i power up a router it takes about 15 seconds before the shop vac turns on. Shutting off is not a problem.

I am not after a remote control my main cyclone is operated via this. Thanks Andy


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## powertools (13 Sep 2011)

I've told what item will do it


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## andypo (13 Sep 2011)

powertools":3992ztc8 said:


> I've told what item will do it




Which one if you google powersaver adapter theres loads come up all different... Also how long does yours take to power up the vac once you start the power tool . Thanks Andy


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## powertools (13 Sep 2011)

5th reply to your op


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## andypo (13 Sep 2011)

ty my mistake missed it thanks a lot


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## Hudson Carpentry (13 Sep 2011)

9fingers":rxdrk56d said:


> There is a related article here http://thewoodhaven.co.uk/phpBB3/viewto ... =19&t=1961
> for anyone who want to use a radio controlled remote switch to control a DC (or other machine) where the machine has a NVR starter and or needs to be powered from a 16amp or higher rated circuit.
> 
> Bob



Cheers Bob, looks simple enough. Ill get the DOL cover off later and have a look if I need to replace the whole DOL or not.


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## 9fingers (14 Sep 2011)

Should work on any proper DOL starter. The terminal markings might be different but I've used those that appear to be standard - although I have failed to find said standard written down anywhere.

Bob


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## Hudson Carpentry (15 Sep 2011)

I can recommend that eBay seller. I received the sockets yesterday, less than 24 hours after ordering.

I have looked in the DOL and found terminal 95 but no A1. There is a terminal behind L1 which is unmarked. Ill post a picture on a new thread to not hijack this one.


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## 9fingers (15 Sep 2011)

Alan, 

The A1 and A2 terminals can be tucked away almost out of site near the base of the DOL starter box
If you feel your query is getting rather specific to your application, feel free to continue to discuss direct with me using [email protected] email addy

Bob


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## andypo (16 Sep 2011)

Well puchased the MAster plug energy saver and it works a treat very happy thanks for the help


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## Hudson Carpentry (4 Oct 2011)

Them sockets I brought work great but forget which remote channel there assigned to when you unplug them, switch off the plug totally or the power goes.

As I have an isolating switch that kills all power when im not around its getting annoying having to reprogram them.

Bob, the ones you brought, do they suffer from this?


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## RogerS (4 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":sub3cgdf said:


> .... There is no permanent on option (hammer) (homer)


 By DOL..do you mean an NVR? I've got the big Axi and that also had an NVR and I wanted to do what you're thinking about. So I swapped a few wires round inside so the extractor is permanently on but now it's powered by my remote socket. You just need to remember that it's permanently on and so unplug it from the mains if you're removing anything from the fan blades.


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## Hudson Carpentry (4 Oct 2011)

RogerS":q8pngz2n said:


> Hudson Carpentry":q8pngz2n said:
> 
> 
> > .... There is no permanent on option (hammer) (homer)
> ...



Ill have a look. Im sure it says DOL starter on the label.


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## Eric The Viking (4 Oct 2011)

Alan, 

I'm in the process of remote-ing my own DX. It has an NVR that I'm ditching. It's a bit temperamental starting anyway, as the NVR has trouble latching in. 

Instead I'm just using a single pole rotary switch from Toolstation. I stripped the radio-controlled remote down to the circuit board, and modified the switch box to fit it inside, alongside the rotary one. 

So the rotary switch kills the DX (but doesn't completely isolate it), for bag changes, etc., and I'll put a big warning label on to warn that you must isolate it properly before trying to clear blockages.

I'm very surprised that the modules you have forget their programming: the ones I got (Maplins) had two little 4-way rotary switches, giving 16 combinations (there are four send channels on the remote, and four sets of on-off buttons). I haven't finished the mod yet, but I'll solder links on the pads where the switches connected to the board. The switching is done by a 3kW-capable relay, so should cope fine with the DX (it's not big - 10A max I think). 

I looked at Bob's DOL starter circuit - it should handle the current with more leeway, but mine will fit on my DX better! Pics when I get a moment.

E.


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## studders (4 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":3b895d5v said:


> Them sockets I brought work great but forget which remote channel there assigned to when you unplug them...


Yup, I did mention that earlier in the thread. It is annoying but all the ones I've found with memory seem to have a 1KW limit, which is no good for most of my stuff; and even used on a 1KW hoover they didn't last very long. I've learnt to put up with the annoyance as a trade off for using these ones on most of my extractors; it only takes seconds to assign a button to a machine but.. still annoying to have to do it every day.


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## Mark A (5 Oct 2011)

I bought a set of Masterplug remote controlled adaptors from Homebase last week and returned them the next day as they would turn on, but not turn off until the remote was held 1/2" away. I'll try B&Q next time as they have more choice.


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

Sorry Eric its getting late. DX?


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

Studders, I must have missed that. Dope again. What happens if you turn 3 of these sockets on then try to program them to a channel?


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## Eric The Viking (5 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":2mp08ccd said:


> Sorry Eric its getting late. DX?



Dust extraction.


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## studders (5 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":hv9pxhbs said:


> Studders, I must have missed that. Dope again. What happens if you turn 3 of these sockets on then try to program them to a channel?



Errrrrrrrr... I dunno. :duno: 
I generally do it one at a time as I use the machines. I know that you can use the 'All Off' button to switch everything off at once, whether you can do the opposite I'm not sure; may have a go later to see what's what, what.


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## RogerS (5 Oct 2011)

My remote came from Maplin. Handles the loads OK.

The weak point on the first earlier design was the push-buttons on the handset which failed quite quickly.


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## Eric The Viking (5 Oct 2011)

RogerS":1vw3x6a3 said:


> The weak point on the first earlier design was the push-buttons on the handset which failed quite quickly.



Did you try the "liquid soap + 4B pencil" trick? It's kept our Sony bathroom tranny going for several decades. 

To be honest, I'm not sure I even really need the pencil: a good, no-glycerine, clean seems to work most of the time. Other people use that conductive silver paint for mending heated car windows (on the membrane pimples), but I haven't had as much success with it. I've also gently abraded the pimples with wet+dry.

Obviously none of the above are any good if the chip dies. It annoys me that Maplin won't sell the controllers separately - all that fuss about eco- friendliness and then encouraging you to throw out perfectly good controller modules when the remote breaks.


E.


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## RogerS (5 Oct 2011)

Eric The Viking":3leyq4hv said:


> RogerS":3leyq4hv said:
> 
> 
> > The weak point on the first earlier design was the push-buttons on the handset which failed quite quickly.
> ...



Liquid soap? A tranny in the bathroom? :shock: 

Not heard of that one. What's the process? Clean the contacts, dry and then rub a 4B pencil on?

Roger


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## Eric The Viking (5 Oct 2011)

RogerS":2tgjz849 said:


> What's the process? Clean the contacts, dry and then rub a 4B pencil on?



Pretty much. 

Plain hand soap is pretty devoid of nasties, and the contacts are usually a graphited rubber. Dry well before reassembly.

If that doesn't work rub a soft pencil into the rubber bumps, clean a bit with kitchen paper and try again.

If *that* doesn't work, abrade, ditto.

Or use silver paint.

You can usually get them going again. Works with TV remotes too.

E.


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

Eric The Viking":6bsbho3h said:


> Alan,
> 
> I'm in the process of remote-ing my own DX. It has an NVR that I'm ditching. It's a bit temperamental starting anyway, as the NVR has trouble latching in.
> 
> ...



This actually gave me an idea on how to solve the problem im having. Using a 12v remote switch module I could use this with a relay that would switch on the machine (with some rewiring) I could use this with a battery so when I leave the shop and Isolate the whole lot (which can be a few times a day) I wouldn't have to keep reprogramming.

Saying that if the ones you say work as they do then I wouldn't need batteries. I don't like maplins they seem to over charge, are these modules a reasonable price?

If your removing the DOL are you not removing the thermal overload protection or are you rewiring that into your mod?

I have 3 machines I wish to remote start in the shop. 2 extractors and an air cleaner (when built). Only the big extractor has the DOL/NVR.


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## RogerS (5 Oct 2011)

I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!


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## 9fingers (5 Oct 2011)

My original circuit was for an industrial sized extractor, that needed a 16amp power feed and so could not be directly controlled from a 13 amp switch. 
And Yes I retained the motor overload circuitry.

Bob


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

RogerS":3f4hxlbe said:


> I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!



That is basically what i have but they lose there channel assignment once power is killed to the circuit the sockets are on. Are these the ones that will remember which channel if it loses power?

Bob I could see you kept the protection, my question was to Eric with his replacement to a rotary switch. Ill be doing what you said Bob one I find or build something that will not lose its memory once its lost power.


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## Eric The Viking (5 Oct 2011)

RogerS":15f7lid5 said:


> I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!



That is exactly what I'm using, but it won't work upstream of an NVR switch. So I have to mod the DX, and can fit a module into the switch case (just about).

[edit] I've just read Alan's post and it looks as though Maplins have changed the design since I bought mine. 

Mine has a slider switch on the transmitter (for one of four groups) and there are two sets of tiny, screwdriver-turned switches on the back of the receiver. One does the group and the other the individual module channel within the group. So theoretically, one transmitter could control 16 different items, but you'd have to keep changing the groups of four with the slider.

Incidentally, it often needs two pushes of the button to get it to fire up. I think the first one 'wakes up' either the receiver or the transmitter.

I'm a bit tied up right now, but I will take some snaps later.


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## RogerS (5 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":hy9vsoyu said:


> RogerS":hy9vsoyu said:
> 
> 
> > I really think that you are over-complicating things. Why not buy a set of these...on offer at the moment. http://www.maplin.co.uk/remote-controll ... ack-348217 for £19.99. They're what I use...one for the large Axminster 2200 chip collector, one for the 110v transformer, one for the air cleaner and the last for a Camvac. In fact, I've just ordered another set!
> ...



Channels are set by wee preset dials....so yes, they do keep their settings.


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## studders (5 Oct 2011)

RogerS":15ssgzi5 said:


> Channels are set by wee preset dials....so yes, they do keep their settings.



Splendid, will order a set and use the ones I have at the mo in the house.


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## powertools (5 Oct 2011)

How come has this thread become so complex.
OP was after an auto switch and was given the answer on about post 5.
About half way down on page 2 he comes back and says that he has purchased said item and it works a treat.
What is the point of a remote control socket to operate a dust collector when you need one hand to turn it on rather than having both hands on the tool and the vac turns itself on. You may as well flick the switch on the vac by hand and then line up the tool and do the job.


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

powertools":g9qtzuq9 said:


> How come has this thread become so complex.
> OP was after an auto switch and was given the answer on about post 5.
> About half way down on page 2 he comes back and says that he has purchased said item and it works a treat.
> What is the point of a remote control socket to operate a dust collector when you need one hand to turn it on rather than having both hands on the tool and the vac turns itself on. You may as well flick the switch on the vac by hand and then line up the tool and do the job.



Because you can not remote start a standard DOL. To remote start using one of these sockets you need a switch on the machine that you can keep on, as a DOL or NVR switch has momentary switches things need to get complex as just replacing the DOL means you lose protection. As auto on systems when you start a tool costs well over £350 once you have hooked up all the tools its in our benefit to throw ideas and knowledge to get what we require within £50, plus, some of us enjoy playing with electronics. We have hijacked the thread but as the OP has his answer already, does that matter?

The dust extractor isn't next to every machine so a remote control saves walking down one end of the shop and back again. Personally when using the ones I brought I have been turning the extraction on while im stood at the machine, then turning the machine on so the 2 hand 1 hand thing isn't a problem.


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## powertools (5 Oct 2011)

Hudson Carpentry":2hnqku17 said:


> powertools":2hnqku17 said:
> 
> 
> > How come has this thread become so complex.
> ...



:? 
Why not start a new therad about playing with electronics rather than destroy a thread that gives people a simple answer to a simple question.


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## Hudson Carpentry (5 Oct 2011)

Thats one way to look at it but we are talking about also getting them with dust extractors fitted with NVR and DOL's a remote system. So in this thread your are getting info on how to make an extractor with a simple switch, remote switched as well as one thats with a NVR/DOL. So rather a member having to read two threads there only having to read one, the threads title don't specify which type of extractor switch! Them wishing for the simple answer for the non DOL extractor can stop reading the rest of the thread after post 5.

If the mods feel differently please split the thread.


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## wcndave (17 Oct 2011)

for my part I have not been able to follow / understand this thread since it turned electrical, so would have preferred 2 threads - however i am happy to ignore this thread instead ;-)


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## Eric The Viking (17 Oct 2011)

Well, it IS an electrical matter -- that can't be avoided. 

I think the thing is, if you're uncomfortable doing DIY in this area, being safe rather than sorry is sensible. OTOH, the cost savings are substantial, compared to having to buy plug-together bits that actually work together correctly.

Here's the original question:


> Has anybody got any ideas on how to make a switch or purchase (not the axminster one as way too expensive) that will start up a portable dust extraction unit when a power tool is turned on. I see from looking on the web that these are available in the states for under £20 but of course they wont work over here. Im looking for something that will send power to the dust extractor once you power up the power tool.


Making a switch to do exactly that is what we've discussed, also a variant (remote control) for extractors without a DOL starter. 

So I'd say we've stayed pretty much on topic, actually.


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## wcndave (17 Oct 2011)

Well, it was about auto start, eg like the power strips that have that built in, for under £20.
now it's DOL, Rotary, DX, NVR - which i have no clue what any of that means.

just shows how much i know :?


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## Hudson Carpentry (18 Oct 2011)

wcndave":1or7ofm3 said:


> Well, it was about *auto start*, eg like the power strips that have that built in, for under £20.
> now it's DOL, Rotary, DX, NVR - which i have no clue what any of that means.
> 
> just shows how much i know :?




Now then I wonder. The ones Axi sell require you put a part on the motor casing that "detects" the magnetic field. I bet this is just a reed switch and can't see why we couldn't device such a system using a reed switch and relay at a fraction of the cost?

I bet in the "control" box there is the normal safety protection circuits, a transformer that supplies the reed switches with 12v and a relay or set of that switch the power to the DX on and off.

DX did stump me. I did think Dust Extractor but disregarded it as I thought that would be DE.

EDIT: Just looked at the axi model and it has a socket which suggests that if you have a DOL/NVR that you would need to rewire or bypass it. If bypass then I bet all the thermal and overload protection is also in the control box.


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## Racers (18 Oct 2011)

Hi, Hudson Carpentry

Probbaly a Hall effect sensor so some electronics will be needed as well http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

I don't think a reed switch will work well.

Pete


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## Hudson Carpentry (18 Oct 2011)

Interesting thanks Pete!


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## Eric The Viking (18 Oct 2011)

Oddly, I'm just about to replace a reed switch on the dishwasher. The old one still works, but I'm not sure how well. For the Axy thing, I'd say Hall effect too, as they have an op-amp built-in (usually) and will work over a longer range.

E. (off to Maplins, Grrr.)


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## bison1947 (20 Nov 2015)

Got one of these from eBay item number 121733639213 Connected my Planer Thickneser as Master and my Shop Vac as Slave.
When the Planer was turned on it started the Vac but when the Planer was switched off the Vac kept running so that dosnt work.
Powertools is this the one you have from B&Q product No 5015056506043 
Thanks


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## RogerS (20 Nov 2015)

bison1947":d67w62fs said:


> Got one of these from eBay item number 121733639213 Connected my Planer Thickneser as Master and my Shop Vac as Slave.
> When the Planer was turned on it started the Vac but when the Planer was switched off the Vac kept running so that dosnt work.
> Powertools is this the one you have from B&Q product No 5015056506043
> Thanks



Looking at the eBay listing there is a distinct lack of data. For example, is there a maximum load that you can take from the Slave? Looking at their suggested uses, I suspect that there may well be and that your Vac fried it. Send it back. It's duff.


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## Eric The Viking (20 Nov 2015)

And this is a four year old thread. 

The dishwasher, incidentally, hasn't missed a beat since 2011...


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## bison1947 (20 Nov 2015)

Thanks for the reply this is the tech data on the box
Maximum Surge Energy = 375 Joules
Maximum Surge Current = 13,500 Amps
Clamping Voltage 775 Volts.
The adapter is still working ive even tried a couple of kitchen items and the same result Master switches slave on but does not switch slave off when master is switched off.


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## Monkey Mark (20 Nov 2015)

bison1947":1jb12281 said:


> Thanks for the reply this is the tech data on the box
> Maximum Surge Energy = 375 Joules
> Maximum Surge Current = 13,500 Amps
> Clamping Voltage 775 Volts.
> The adapter is still working ive even tried a couple of kitchen items and the same result Master switches slave on but does not switch slave off when master is switched off.


Which items did you try? Apparently, if a slave device is a low power item they can stay on as the draw is too low to be detected and switched off.


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## bison1947 (22 Nov 2015)

Well the ebay supplier refunded me and told me to dispose of the item as i wish so still
looking for a Master / Slave plug???


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## Monkey Mark (22 Nov 2015)

It depends how technical you want to get. You could make your own using delay relays pretty cheaply. That would give the option of adjustable overrun . you could even have different delays for different machines and switch more than one extraction unit on. It would likely (I'd have to check to be certain on the cheaper ones, larger more expensive items certainly can) be able to handle much higher loads.


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## bison1947 (22 Nov 2015)

Thanks for the reply all i want one for is to use my vac with my Planer Thicknesser nothing fancy ,about delay relays wouldnt know where to start unless
i had plans to follow.


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## jimmer (3 Apr 2018)

long shot: Does anyone know of an equivalent of the masterplug/intelliplug devices, but for european/franch plugs and sockets


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## powertools (4 Apr 2018)

jimmer":19qvz9we said:


> long shot: Does anyone know of an equivalent of the masterplug/intelliplug devices, but for european/franch plugs and sockets




Can't answer your specific question but you can buy an adaptor that converts a 3 pin UK plug to a European plug.


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## jimmer (5 Apr 2018)

yes, you can


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