# Just bought a Viceroy TDS6 short bed



## Farmer Giles (13 Jun 2017)

a bit of an impulse buy, it was at the right price and within easy collection distance.

Doesn't seem to be a chuck however to begin with I just want it to make the odd round thing, knobs, short spindles, just general stuff, bowls may come later, probably if I ever get to retire. I was looking for a graduate short bed but they seem to be silly money so this was my second choice. Any tips from Viceroy users accepted 

















Cheers
Andy


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## dickm (13 Jun 2017)

Think you've got a bit of an alignment problem with that tailstock................


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## graduate_owner (13 Jun 2017)

I bought a Viceroy a few years ago, full bed version. The head and tail stocks are 3MT. The inboard thread is 1 1/2" x 8, same as boxford and you can get a backplate from RDG tools which may allow you to fit a woodturning chuck on. The outboard thread is a bit more awkward - 1 1/4 x 9 left hand. I haven't seen that thread anywhere else. Faceplates do appear on ebay occasionally but fetch £30+. Mine came with a metal chuck and a faceplate for inboard but nothing for outboard, so I bought a tap off ebay and am going to try to make my own outboard faceplate, or modify the thread on an existing one. I want to use the outboard for a disc sander, since I don't need it for turning ( I have a graduate bowl lathe for that, I only need the Viceroy for spindle work).
Check out lathes.co for some more info. The Viceroy handbook is available online as a free download. If you can't find it I can email you a pdf copy.
Do you have a single or 3 phase motor? Do you need to change the motor? If so, what I did was to unbolt the motor mounting plate, complete with motor attached, and winch the lathe up and away leaving the motor plate on the floor. It's a bit of a palaver but do-able. After the replacement motor is bolted to the mounting plate, lower the lathe back into position - getting the alignment right is a bit fiddly, as is getting in the bolts furthest from you, but again do-able.

I replaced my 3 phase 440V motor with a dual voltage 3 phase and now have variable speed which is nice to have. I also had to sort out a problem with tailstock alignment - the tailstock can be moved sideways as in a metal lathe. The casting with the thread that allows this was broken so I had to machine a replacement part, but all good now.
I think it is a well made, solid machine. Might not be as convenient as modern machines because of the non standarc threads, and no swivel head etc. but that lathe will last you a long time. The bed on mine is cast iron and about as heavily build as my Myford metal lathe bed. Rock sold.

K


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## Farmer Giles (14 Jun 2017)

dickm":qldsnsbs said:


> Think you've got a bit of an alignment problem with that tailstock................



Yes but I want to turn around corners  I shall let you know how it goes, picking it up Monday morning.



graduate_owner":qldsnsbs said:


> I bought a Viceroy a few years ago, full bed version. The head and tail stocks are 3MT. The inboard thread is 1 1/2" x 8, same as boxford and you can get a backplate from RDG tools which may allow you to fit a woodturning chuck on. The outboard thread is a bit more awkward - 1 1/4 x 9 left hand. I haven't seen that thread anywhere else. Faceplates do appear on ebay occasionally but fetch £30+. Mine came with a metal chuck and a faceplate for inboard but nothing for outboard, so I bought a tap off ebay and am going to try to make my own outboard faceplate, or modify the thread on an existing one. I want to use the outboard for a disc sander, since I don't need it for turning ( I have a graduate bowl lathe for that, I only need the Viceroy for spindle work).
> Check out lathes.co for some more info. The Viceroy handbook is available online as a free download. If you can't find it I can email you a pdf copy.
> Do you have a single or 3 phase motor? Do you need to change the motor? If so, what I did was to unbolt the motor mounting plate, complete with motor attached, and winch the lathe up and away leaving the motor plate on the floor. It's a bit of a palaver but do-able. After the replacement motor is bolted to the mounting plate, lower the lathe back into position - getting the alignment right is a bit fiddly, as is getting in the bolts furthest from you, but again do-able.
> 
> ...



Many thanks for that, useful information,  the threads were my main concern, I have an imperial screwcutting lathe, but not a lot of experience in screwcutting, but my next door neighbour is a toolmaker so I may cross his palm with silver 

Its single phase, but may swap it for 3 phase as I have a spare inverter so could tinker with the speed  I also have a 240 to 415v converter but I tend to use that for bigger stuff like the colchester that has a 7.5hp motor.

I don't have a clue when it comes to woodworking chucks, much to learn.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (14 Jun 2017)

Hi again Andy,
I am a beginner at metal turning, so not much of a clue about screw cutting either. When it comes to chucks, don't be tempted to use a metal chuck to grip wood because it just doesn't work. The jaws will crush the wood fibres and the wood slips off. However you could make a pin chuck and hold that in the jaws of a metal chuck. Just a cylinder of steel with a flat ground on it, and a loose pin - you will easily see what I mean from a catalogue picture. You could also turn up a screw chuck and hold that in your metal chuck.

K


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## J-G (14 Jun 2017)

graduate_owner":3s8zu8y1 said:


> When it comes to chucks, don't be tempted to use a metal chuck to grip wood because it just doesn't work. The jaws will crush the wood fibers and the wood slips off.


I can't let that statement go unchallenged !

Metal-turning chucks are capable of taking different jaws just as wood-turning chucks are. Not only do they have essentially 'pointed' jaws they also have external gripping 'curved' jaws (in the same way that wood-turning jaws are) and soft jaws which can be machined to grip a particular diameter and even be drilled and tapped to become 'carriers' for larger jaws. 

I do have a X600 chuck which I use for most of my wood-turning but also use metal chucks with both types of hard jaws, as well as soft jaws and even a 4 jaw independent jaw chuck on occasion for initial rounding of odd 'lumps' of wood.

I agree that it would be _better_ to use a wood-turning chuck but the statement _'just doesn't work' _is so wrong !


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## Phil Pascoe (14 Jun 2017)

Nevertheless posts asking advice are generally by inexperienced people, so it's probably wiser just to say don't do it.


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## Farmer Giles (14 Jun 2017)

Thanks guys

I'll wait until I pick it up before I look into it further in case there is a box of bits including a nova or sorby chuck with it - doubtful but you never know.

Looking at Nova, they don't have anything beyond 1-1/4" and even their blank insert doesn't go that big, I'm in no rush.

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Jun 2017)

I've an old Nova on an exert down from 1 1/2" x 6 - it runs perfectly true.
A poor picture, Stanley blade for scale -


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## Farmer Giles (15 Jun 2017)

if all else fails I'll make my own insert, my neighbour regularly screwcuts in an aerospace factory so I'll get him around to help. I renovated this last year, it had a broken gearbox and several collapsed bearings











after replacing some broken selectors in the gearbox, loads of new oils seals, a few bearings and a bit of paint it now looks like this, or did until i started using it, its a long bed Colchester Triumph 2000. Everything now works, it has a bit of backlash but came with a DRO, I will replace the cross slide nut at some point.













Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (15 Jun 2017)

Very nice Andy. I have a colchester master, the square head mk 2 version, but very unskilled at the moment.

J-g:
I was not aware you could get different types of jaws for metal chucks. I have internal and external jaws, and I have heard of soft jaws but never seen any. My comments were based on my own experience using my jaws, and I stand corrected. I do think a metal chuck is useful though, even if just for holding things such as pin chucks, or perhaps hard plastic. If I need to hold wood in my colchester then I put a spare graduate spindle (another ebay find) in the 3 jaw chuck and thread my woodturning chuck on to that. Next job is to make a tool rest holder for the colchester. One of these days!!
And one of these days I might get the chance to do some serious woodturning.

K


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## Farmer Giles (15 Jun 2017)

Some good ideas there. Soft jaws and a boxford chuck if all else fails, graduate spindle etc. Hopefully I'll just make the insert. If I do and make more than one I shall let the forum know in case others want one.

Colchester are a good lathe, can be a bit noisy with straight gears. They are now owned by the 600 group. So called because all their spares start at 600 quid!


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## J-G (15 Jun 2017)

Farmer Giles":3e5qjvws said:


> if all else fails I'll make my own insert, my neighbour regularly screwcuts in an aerospace factory so I'll get him around to help. I renovated this last year, it had a broken gearbox and several collapsed bearings
> Andy


 !!! with kit of that magnitude available, (can you tell I'm jealous?) I'm surprised that you even considered looking for commercially available inserts 

Screw-cutting, like many other 'specialist' operations (Ball-Turning comes to mind) is only daunting until you have done it successfully a few times. Thread pitches of 6 tpi or 3mm do need some 'grunt' but that won't be an issue for the Colchester.


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## graduate_owner (15 Jun 2017)

I bought a spare graduate spindle because (a) I had a graduate at the time and (b) it was cheap, around £15, so I thought it might be useful. I didn't have my colchester master then.

What you need though is a boxford spindle, or whatever else uses the 1 1/2 x 8 thread. Or, as has been suggested by those who are green with envy at your colchester AND your repair skills ( me for instance!!) you could just cut an external thread on a plain bar and use that in your colchester as I do. The thing is though, can you get a woodturning chuck with thread to suit the viceroy? Peter Child do the Patriot chuck, with the comment ' please enquire' beside the thread you need, so if your kit doesn't come with a chuck then this may be a source.

Since you have stripped down a colchester, do you have any idea why mine should be refusing to cut threads? I have an experienced friend who has tried it and still no joy, so it's not my ham fistedness. The tool cuts the right thread pattern but does not align up for subsequent cuts. It is an imperial lathe, and 6 tpi whitworth that I have been so there shouldn't even be a need to use the thread indicator, although I have done so but still multi start threads.

When took possession of the lathe I thought the thread on the half nut was damaged so friend and I ( but mainly friend, with me watching) stripped down the apron etc and freed up the half nut eccentric cam. The half nut appeared fine. I didn't try screw cutting for a while, but when I did, well, these multi start issues came to the surface.

Any ideas?

P.S. I just took another look at your photograph and you seem to have most of what you need, as in outboard face plate ( mine was missing) and tool rest supports etc. Your tailstock is different to mine, much shorter, but looks the same as in lathes.co pictures. I don't know if that tailstock has adjustment for alignment. Perhaps it's not needed.

K


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## Farmer Giles (15 Jun 2017)

Thanks for the kind remarks about the lathe chaps. I was lucky with gearbox as I could replace the selectors using keyhole surgery with forceps through a hole in the headstock revealed by taking a layshaft out, so I didn't have to dismantle the lot - that would have been a challenge! Just so you hate me more, it cost £250 for the lathe, £100 quid in second hand spares and bearings and about 50 quid for paint etc. so £400 all in, plus about 6 months effort 

Do you have a dial thread indicator on your master? It allows you to wind back to the correct starting point, allegedly. I don't have one, I missed one on the bay for 20 quid last year and since then they have been going for silly money.

EDIT Doh! I missed the bit about not needing a dial indicator for 6tpi!


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## J-G (15 Jun 2017)

graduate_owner":1qp9jgj8 said:


> ...do you have any idea why mine should be refusing to cut threads? I have an experienced friend who has tried it and still no joy, so it's not my ham-fistedness. The tool cuts the right thread pattern but does not align up for subsequent cuts. It is an imperial lathe, and 6 tpi whitworth that I have been so there shouldn't even be a need to use the thread indicator, although I have done so but still multi start threads.
> 
> When took possession of the lathe I thought the thread on the half nut was damaged so friend and I ( but mainly friend, with me watching) stripped down the apron etc and freed up the half nut eccentric cam. The half nut appeared fine. I didn't try screw cutting for a while, but when I did, well, these multi start issues came to the surface.
> 
> Any ideas?


Since all 'Masters' had a 6tpi Leadscrew you are quite correct about not needing to bother about the thread indicator (when cutting 6tpi). One issue that I have read about is the fact that the apron is open at the bottom and operators tend to forget that the lead-screw/nut needs lubricating manually so there may be wear on the half nut (I know you've checked it but I assume 'visually'). You could try keeping the nut engaged and at the end of each cut, withdraw the tool and reverse the spindle - taking it well past the start so that any back-lash is removed.

I have to do this on my Myford S7 when cutting metric threads (most of the time) - a small inconvenience but it works.

Apologies if this is 'teaching Granny'


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## Farmer Giles (15 Jun 2017)

Its a bit steep at 44 quid but you can get the 1-1/2" x 8 adapter for the patriot, thanks G_O for putting me on to that 

EDIT, you can select the chuck with any insert for the same prices, £176, interesting. I'll still wait until it is nestled in the workshop first


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## graduate_owner (15 Jun 2017)

With your colchester up and running, you could save £44 and get some thread cutting practice at the same time. You know what to do !! 
Thanks for the advice regarding the thread cutting. Do you know if the half nut can be adequately lubricated by oiling the lead screw, or is it too late for that now? I did buy a new half nut before dismantling, assuming mine was defective so I can change it, but it is a bit of a performance and I'm hoping that is not the fault. 

I did try keeping the half nut engaged as you suggested but it still goes out of sync. It doesn't make sense to me. I was wondering if one of those cameras on a stalk would be able to get in and allow me to see what is happening.

K


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## TFrench (15 Jun 2017)

That colchester is a beauty! Jammy so n so!


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## flh801978 (15 Jun 2017)

Keith
If you engage the half nut with the lathe stationary try and then turn the carriage hand wheel there should be no appreciable movement at the cutting tool...that will show you that the half nut is ok.if there is movement check that you are engaging all the way down on the lead screw handle.
The only other thing is you have got the gearbox selecter in imperial rather than metric ?
If that's wrong it will go out of sync
Ian


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## Farmer Giles (16 Jun 2017)

TFrench":pdq986yn said:


> That colchester is a beauty! Jammy so n so!



I was at the right place at the right time, a work colleague mentioned there was a lathe in the warehouse, so I went and took a look, enquired and found that they had consolidated two building maintenance workshops and only needed one lathe and as it had a gearbox issues it was being scrapped. So instead of a dealer getting it for scrap value, I paid the same price but the dosh went to a local hospice  came with a brand new 3 jaw church, 4 jaw, faceplate and fixed steady


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## Farmer Giles (19 Jun 2017)

I've picked up the lathe and given it a quick rub down and a quick test. There is a large aluminium faceplate and smaller cast "faceplate" for the outboard LH thread but nothing for the inboard -yet 

The single phase motor works fine and even with link belts it sounds quiet enough, The motor is wired direct to the plug, not via the switch on the front, I'm guessing the switch maybe an early 3 phase NVR switch given this come out of a school and the lathe was converted to single phase later but I could be wrong, no big deal either way, I'll check that out later when I get some time and wire it correctly.

The tailstock swivels and can be locked in place with a allen grub screw so that's not a concern so in all not bad. I have seen slightly cheaper but they are usually in Cornwall or North Scotland. At some point it will get a pray job, and although I like to keep machines as they were originally painted, I hate hammerite with a passion so it may have to go!.
































Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (19 Jun 2017)

I had a quick look at the switch, it is single phase and think I can see why they wired it direct. This is the switch






This is the back, the red wire should be top right, with this set up as wired you can turn the lathe on, but not off. I had a quick check with the meter and it seems to work contact wise but I won't know if the latching mechanism works until there is power to it. The left hand "on" switch is normally open, and the right hand "off" switch normally closed, if you press the on switch, the current going through the switch should activate the latching mechanism, pressing the off switch break the circuit so the latching mechanism releases the on switch back to normally open. (Incorrect -see edit below)






If it is broken then I will do what I did with my Tom Senior milling machine switch gear. The below was completely broken internally so as I was changing to a VFD, I replaced the innards with a modern NVR switch but the old buttons operate it. I also added the chicken head knob to allow speed control. A new NVR switch would have looked wrong on a 1950's machine.






Tea break over, back to work, it will have to wait until next weekend now 

EDIT - the latching mechanism isn't in the above switch, there's more gubbins in the back that I have just uncovered, I thought the switch was a bit small for it's day to be a self contained NVR switch, it is purely a remote controller for the gubbins below, I shall have to look at it in more detail now.






It is looking more likely that I will fit a modern NVR switch to the back of the on/off switch and bypass the existing gubbins unless I can get a decent diagram for it.

EDIT number 2 - found a wiring diagram on the Denford forum 

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (19 Jun 2017)

Here's the wiring diagram for the Denford Viceroy TD6






a higher resolution PDF is available on the Denford forum, it is bundled in a PDF of the wiring of many Denford machines so took a while to dig out. All looks self explanatory, it can work single or three phase and apart from the 96* terminal which I think maybe the neon on the Danfoss contactor, is relatively easy to understand. As they have wired direct to the motor, the lathe isn't properly earthed. I'll rewire it correctly and see if the contactor still works, if not I'll replace it with a modern NVR hidden behind the existing switch.

I think it was probably three phase to begin with, and they probably didn't have a diagram to chenge it to single phase, or the contactor broke so they wired it direct.


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## graduate_owner (22 Jun 2017)

FLH,
I have tried what you suggested, and with the half nut lever engaged I can turn the hand wheel on the apron enough to move the carriage about 10mm, so I guess that is causing the loss of sync, but I don't know what to do about it. There is also about 1mm slack in the lead screw, but when I tried taking this up by tightening the castellated type nuts ( C spanner type) where it comes from the gearbox, the whole thing was too tight to turn, so I put it back as it was.
Does this mean I need to dismantle the apron etc again?

K


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## flh801978 (22 Jun 2017)

K
Engage the half nut lever and then remove it and replace a few teeth clockwise (if its a gap bed one AC if not ) and fasten re-engage further see if that engages the half nut further into mesh
10mm is far too much to travel..mine is locked solid when engaged
Ian


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## flh801978 (22 Jun 2017)

You can adjust slack at the tailstock end with the collar too


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## graduate_owner (23 Jun 2017)

Thanks Ian, I will try that. 

K

Just tried it, no further engagement of the lever so it looks like off with the saddle. I am not looking forward to it. Have you ever done this? Any hints?
Also, how can I adjust the slack on the lead screw from the tailstock end? There doesn't seem to be any adjustment there. The lathe is a gap bed, if that makes any difference.

K


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## flh801978 (23 Jun 2017)

Yes I've done a few times on both gap and Normal beds
You need to take the top off the gearbox and undo the nut holding the lead screw in then that withdraws remove the drive shaft as well and then the apron will come away from the saddle and then you can see whats wrong with the half nut area
When withdrawing lead screw be careful of gears and spacers take photos and make notes


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## graduate_owner (23 Jun 2017)

Thanks, here goes then.

K


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## Farmer Giles (24 Jun 2017)

Sorry I can't help on the lead screw, I haven't had to touch mine - yet.

Back to the Viceroy. I had a quick look at converting the existing switch panel to an NVR, the idea is you use the existing buttons to actuate a modern NVR hidden behind it, Here's a pick showing a couple of bits of dowel used to extend the button action to the new NVR.






Then mate them up, by fixing them together, but before I do that, I have to make sure that there is enough depth in the machine to take the NVR. Tottal depth is about 80mm for 15mm either side of the centre line.






So measure the cavity, not deep enough, especially once the wires are on the back, they would catch on the pulley. It may just squeak in as the largest pulley is on the left but less than ideal having wiring near a moving belt. 






If I packed it out with a space then maybe but I think I will see if the original denford switch gear is still in good nick so will try and reuse the Danfoss contactor. Plan C is just to use the new NVR on a plate and forget about keeping the look original.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (8 Oct 2017)

Anybody have an idea of what the flat tool rest type of thing is in this photo of a viceroy?






Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (8 Oct 2017)

Could it be some sort of sanding table? No idea what all those screws are for though.

The tailstock doesn't look all that substantial, but no doubt it is fit for purpose. I suppose it is to save space. On my full length bed viceroy the tailstock is quite a chunk. 


I do hope you will be removing that chuck key before you switch on !!!

K


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## Farmer Giles (8 Oct 2017)

graduate_owner":1w04nseb said:


> I do hope you will be removing that chuck key before you switch on !!!



I would but it's not my lathe, I just wondered what the thingamabob was


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## deema (8 Oct 2017)

Your lathe has a contractor with an overload current relay piggy backed to it. This is what you find in an industrial NVR, and is far better than the simple NVR latch you highlighted. The overcurrent relay will provide protection for the motor. You simply set it at the maximum running current. 

The contractor and the existing switches will work as you desire.....assuming the contractor is working! Plenty of stuff on how to wire them up.


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## Farmer Giles (8 Oct 2017)

Looking at lathes.co.uk, the only clue I have on the weird rest is this excerpt

_"The options were limited but all models were available with a rack-operated saddle and compound slide rest was to concert the machine to light-duty metal turning."_

So maybe it is one of them?


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## Farmer Giles (8 Oct 2017)

deema":2pz2rqzt said:


> Your lathe has a contractor with an overload current relay piggy backed to it. This is what you find in an industrial NVR, and is far better than the simple NVR latch you highlighted. The overcurrent relay will provide protection for the motor. You simply set it at the maximum running current.
> 
> The contractor and the existing switches will work as you desire.....assuming the contractor is working! Plenty of stuff on how to wire them up.



Thanks Deema, I have the diagram and will get around to wiring it in soon, either the previous owner didn't have the diagram or skill to rewire to single phase or the contactor is FUBAR, we will soon find out


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## Farmer Giles (9 Oct 2017)

I hoisted the lathe out of the barn and up into the workshop, took longer than expected, typically a mate turned up just as I finished, it is much quicker with two.

I had a fleeting attempt at wiring in the old contactor but the denford lathe diagram seems to have a few mistakes or omissions and pin-out diagrams for these old contactors seem to be elusive. Also the diagram could refer to a different contactor model as it doesn't specify the exact model. The good news is if didn't go bang or let out any smoke. I think I have a wire missing and I think I know where so a friend who is an industrial sparky is coming around on Thursday to offer his opinion, I think we will end up putting a more recent contactor in there with known pin-outs.

All the wiring was removed before and the motor driven direct from a plug, I have replaced all the wiring, neatly clipped in place so it shouldn't be difficult to connect it up given the correct diagram and documeted contactor 

I have also podded out on a Sorby Patriot chuck with the correct thread, I need to get a live centre etc. for the tailstock and some turning tools. This Sorby set looks good for the cash, or should I just buy the odd old tool etc?

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Oct 2017)

That's a good, balanced set - there isn't anything there you won't use, and the sizes are fine for most people's usage.


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## Farmer Giles (10 Oct 2017)

Thanks Phil

Chisels purchased, I should be turning soon.

Interestingly the taper on the Viceroy's tailstock is MT3, I thought it would be MT2 or even MT1 like most wood lathe tooling, no bother, I have sleeve reducers for MT3 to MT2 and MT1. There is no release mechanism when you wind the tailstock fully in like most metal lathes, it's a drift and mallet job 

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (10 Oct 2017)

A day of tidying up and a pub lunch however I did get a delivery from turners retreat







it came with the correct thread adapter, I lose a bit of between centres distance but I don't see that as a problem, I have no inclination to start kicking out spindles 






The adapter come with a big spanner, and yes, I will remove the spanner before starting up the lathe :lol:






When I bought the lathe I got a small and large faceplate for the left hand oddly sized 9 x 1.25" left hand outboard thread but nothing for the right hand 8 x 1.5" inboard.






So given I was buying a chuck, I thought using that to hold any faceplates etc. would save me from searching for bits to fit the native thread or the adapter's thread. As the chuck comes with 2" jaws and a screw chuck thingamabob, I bought additional 80mm and 120mm faceplates and 1" pin jaws which I think will do me for a while.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (10 Oct 2017)

It's the left hand faceplates that are the problem if they are missing - as you said the thread is 1 1/4" x 9 left hand which I have not come across before. The right hand is the same as boxford and some other metal lathes, and availability from Chronos. So you were lucky there. Mine came without left hand faceplates and I ended up buying some taps and cutting a thread in some maple so screw on. I only need it for a sanding table at the moment so no problems there.

Be careful when unscrewing the tailstock quill. If I unscrew mine into the body of the casting then it turns and sort of locks up until I get it back into alignment again. I keep a brass rod ready for centre removal, and yes, both centres are 3MT.

K


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## Farmer Giles (12 Oct 2017)

The spark has just left, I had one wire out of place due to the Denford diagram having an omission and having no contactor diagram, I kind of suspected as much but the contactor coil is 400v so although it tried to pull the coil in, 240v isn't enough. If you give the coil core a push it works. So I've ordered a 240v contactor off the bay of thieves along with a new contactor overload protector sized for up to a 2hp motor, the one it at the moment is probably 1hp from the pictures of the plate we have got by sticking a camera around the back.

I've stuck to Danfoss as the size seems similar to the 1970s version so it will probably fit in the back of the lathe in the original container, if not I'll stick it in another box. I could have bought a whole starter in a box for similar or less price but it would be a no-name far east import with dodgy instructions.

It is recommended that you screw the lathe down, especially of balance blanks, the trouble with that is that the fixing holes are internal so you have to take the motor out to do it. I may weld some tabs on the base.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (12 Oct 2017)

If the lathe is a little too low down for your height ( spindle at elbow height) then you can raise it up and secure to the floor in one procedure. Get some U section steel, or box section and cut a section out wide enough to turn a spanner. Drill holes in the steel to match the Viceroy base, and bolt the lathe to the steel, using the cut outs to give access if you use box section. Then bolt the steel to the floor. If you first chamfer the steel and pre drill, then it is a straightforward job. I have just recently done this with my graduate which also has the bolt holes on the inside of the casting. With the viceroy, someone has already welded brackets for feet on the outside. actually it came with hefty 4" wheels but I don't think wheels and lathes go well together, so off they came. Just need to move it to it's permanent position in the shed now and I'll be bolting it down. Because of the external brackets I will just position it on some 6x2 timber, screw in place and screw the timber to the floor. Coach screws will do the job.

K


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## Farmer Giles (12 Oct 2017)

Thanks GO, I never thought about height, I was too focused on getting it fixed 

I have some 50mm box in stock ready to make a stand for my big fly press, I bought plenty so will be enough for a stand for the lathe.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (13 Oct 2017)

Hi again Farmer Giles,
(Do you really run a farm?).

The viceroy cabinet is sheet steel, as you are no doubt aware, so you could easily weld on or bolt on angle iron off cuts to act as angle brackets. The graduate is a casting so welding wasn't an option for me, but the box section steel made it a fairly straightforward job. To get the holes at the correct spacing I poked a felt pen through them to leave ink marks on the floor, then dragged the lathe to one side and used the marks on the floor as a sort of template. The box section actually matched up first time - quite an achievement for me !!.

Sounds like you are almost ready to start turning. Enjoy.

K


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## Farmer Giles (13 Oct 2017)

Thanks GO

The fabrication part of it is easy, finding the time is the problem 

We have a small holding, we did have pigs and chickens but stopped when the kids came along, we are restarting next year when we will get pigs, chickens and probably some ducks and geese. We grow veggies using permaculture methods, basically no digging and lots of companion planting, mainly my better halves concern.

However Farmer Giles also rhyming slang for hemorrhoids and my father was a martyr to them, so it seemed to fit nicely, sort of!

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (13 Oct 2017)

Time - yes that is the limiting factor for me too. We live on a smallholding but no longer keep any stock. We used to have riding horses, and Dexter cattle, but all have gone now. Even the chickens haven't been replaced since Mr Fox paid us a few visits. We just have 2 dogs now. As far as gardening goes, well that never seems to get proper attention either. Most of my time is taken up with general maintenance and completing the work converting barn to house ( been on-going for over 20 years). I thought that retirement would enable me to get things done at a fairly rapid pace but everything seems to take that much longer these days.

Never mind, I just keep at it, and I do some turning when I get a chance too.

K


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## Farmer Giles (17 Oct 2017)

The bits arrived for the contactor and thermal overload, wired it up, off it went lovely, then stopped after a minute or so. It turns out the supplier sent the right thermal overload box but the contents were for a lower rating, correct one now on its way!

Been busy on the roubo bench and still tidying the workshop, chisels arrived, very nice, as have some bits from Chronos. Various bowl and spindle blanks and tubs of wax and cellulose sealer on their way.

Given I have never turned wood in anger before, and I have a healthy respect for large lumps of wood rotating at high speed, I will get somebody around who has done it the first time I fire it up. I may put a two or three day turning course on my Christmas list, the ones at Turners Retreat sound OK.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (20 Oct 2017)

Well the lathe is making a struggle of it but it is now wired up. We had an intermittent fault that turned out to be a faulty crimp on the motor cable but the correct overload is now fitted so it is now working as originally designed.

To get to the motor cabling to sort out the fault, the end of the motor you need to inspect is buried inside the steel box and can't be accessed without moving the motor. Instead of unbolting the motor which is a faff, I unbolted the cast iron base with motor attached from the steel body of the lathe and turned the body around by 90 degrees so the cabling end of the motor was sitting poking out of the belt changing door. This saved me from disconnecting cabling etc.

While I was at it I took a picture of the motor plate, before it was around the back and there wasn't much room to take a pic. I'm just looking at the pic and unfortunately the motor is only 1/4hp which I don't think will be enough.

So I will get a 1.5 or 2hp 3 phase motor and an inverter at some point so I have more flexibility speed wise with less belt changing. But it will do for now, physically it looked a lot larger than 1/4 hp, more like 3/4. I will still use the contactor, just rewire it for 3 phase and use it on the output, this will work fine as the contactor is 240v and wiring the motor to delta and using and inverter means the output will be 240v.

When I change the motor I will give the lathe a coat of paint and other cosmetic fixes, for now I will use as is,

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (21 Oct 2017)

Having slept on this and after looking on the new contactor/overload specifications and what other turners use I am going to forget the VFD option, at least for now, and get a 1hp single phase motor. Manual speed changes are easy enough on the Viceroy and for my limited use spending best part of 300 quid on a larger 3 phase motor and VFD will make a cheap lathe into and expensive one.

I can get a new 1hp single phase motor for 90 quid delivered, the foot bolt spacing and shaft size will differ but that's easy enough to sort. The contactor handles 6A and full load current on the 1hp motor is 5.3A so no further cost there.


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## minilathe22 (21 Oct 2017)

You could always look out for the variable drive as and when you see a good deal. Same with the 3 phase motor. I managed to find a vfd for £53 delivered on ebay. Are you sure the existing motor is only 1/4 HP? I am surprised a previous owner would have fitted one that small. Have you tried any wood turning with the existing motor?


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## Farmer Giles (21 Oct 2017)

Hi Mini

Yes, definitely 1/4hp, we were surprised too as its a big lump. We did get a very bad photo of the plate on an iphone and we thought it said 3/4hp and I guess we went along with it, it wasn't until I had to unbolt the base and managed to get a decent camera in there that I found out for definite.






I may still go for the 90 quid motor options for now, a 1hp 1400rpm motor will always come in handy if I do use the lathe frequently. Typically you need a bigger motor with a VFD to get power at lower rpm to give flexibility, for example, typical power output of a 2hp 1420rpm motor at different frequencies hence rpm.

For Variable Speed use:-
Part Time Output when Inverter powered is...
5.04Nm - 1.5kW ( 2HP) x 2840 RPM at 100 Hz
10.09Nm - 1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1420 RPM at 50 Hz
10.09Nm -0.75kW ( 1HP) x 710 RPM at 25 Hz
10.09Nm - 0.15kW (0.2HP) x 142 RPM at 5 Hz
Continuous Output when Inverter powered is...
7.2Nm -1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1988 RPM at 70 Hz
10.09Nm -1.5kW ( 2HP) x 1420 RPM at 50 Hz
8.58Nm - 0.64kW ( 0.85HP) x 710 RPM at 25 Hz
5.05Nm - 0.08kW (0.1HP) x 142 RPM at 5 Hz

Even so, a 2hp 3 phase motor is a similar price to a 1hp single phase motor

Decisions decisions 

Cheers
Andy


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## minilathe22 (21 Oct 2017)

That is a shame. Must have been what someone had lying around to get it going! I currently have a 3/4HP motor and find it gets overpowered when bowl turning.


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## Farmer Giles (21 Oct 2017)

Just been looking at motor sizes, 4 pole 1450 rpm 2hp 3 phase motors tend to be a 90 frame size which would be a squeeze in the lathe, probably meaning a cut out in the side for the motor fan. 80 frame size look to fit nicely without which is what the 1hp single phase motor I was looking at is.

I'll take a look around and make a decision later.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (22 Oct 2017)

I spent most of the day clearing up after storm Brian, no major damage, just loads of gravel washed into all the drains. However I did get an hour later on.

Firstly, I am going to struggle getting a motor greater than 3/4hp into the lathe without modifications. I have 270mm from pulley to the far right of the motor cupboard, 80 frame motors which typically cover 1 and 1.5hp 4 pole single and 3 phase are typically 290mm including shaft of 40mm long so 250mm body. So that gives me 20mm for distance between motor body and first pulley and to allow for ventilation. Given there is a fan at one end, it will need more than this. Some viceroys are in bigger enclosures, I'm not too sure if this was a later version or the smaller enclosure was for schools only as they were limited to 3/4hp.

There are several options to fix it. First option, add some ventilation into the side of the cabinet. Second, use an inverter and 3 phase motor and have fewer pulleys so it can be moved further to the left with the VFD to fill the speed gaps. Third option, find an old motor that has no fan at the end, assuming dimensions are suitable. Fourth option, settle for a 71 frame and 3/4hp max and gain an extra 45mm for ventilation. I shall yank the old motor out first and have a think.

I thought I would check out a few things on the lathe if I am going to spend more cash on it, firstly headstock and tailstock alignment. The tailstock was in need of a bit of TLC. Rusty and therefore stiff to operate.






Firstly I took an MT3 reamer to the tailstock and headstock tapers to clear out any corrosion and burrs. I didn't use a wrench and I had no intention of cutting a new taper, hand pressure only.






I then cleaned up the tailstock a little and checked alignment with the headstock. This was just a quick check without a test bar but it looks close enough for now.






The clamp screw is missing as you can see, so I got sidetracked onto getting some, plus the other knobs and clamps that are missing. I will have to make some bits but I got most of the clamps and knobs from Cotel moldings, they have some in imperial sizes, they have a 25 quid minimum charge but I needed knobs for a couple of other machines. I bought metric where I will be making a new T bar etc. and imperial where I was using existing threads. This was because metric are a bit cheaper, more choice in size/type and my metric taps and dies are labelled, whereas imperial are all jumbled up and need sorting.

I only had a few minutes of tinkering time left so I took the cup brush to the lathe beds. Before






and after a coat of lubricating wax.






I started removing the dodgy old sticker and ordered some light blue hammered paint so I guess I am sticking with it and it will get almost a full restoration. I don't like hammered paint as a rule, but I thought I would give it a go, I think I hate it as I have seen so many machines where it has looked like it has been applied with broken bottle, covering rust, grease etc. along the way.

Cheers
Andy


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## CHJ (23 Oct 2017)

Somewhere in your text you mention using your contactors on the OUTPUT of a VFD if you get a 3PH motor.


> So I will get a 1.5 or 2hp 3 phase motor and an inverter at some point so I have more flexibility speed wise with less belt changing. But it will do for now, physically it looked a lot larger than 1/4 hp, more like 3/4. I will still use the contactor, just rewire it for 3 phase and use it on the output, this will work fine as the contactor is 240v and wiring the motor to delta and using and inverter means the output will be 240v.



You must never switch the output of a electronic VFD to a motor, the connections must be permanently connected to the motor wiring. The motor windings form part of the operating circuit, uneven or interrupted output phase loads could wreck the invertor.

Only switch the input to an electronic VFD invertor, not the output.


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## Farmer Giles (23 Oct 2017)

Good point CHJ.

I can use the contactor on the input, even easier to wire up but with a VFD the contactor is kind of superfluous unless I use it for the emergency stop etc.

As I only want the lathe to knock up the odd bit of turnery, I'm erring towards just sticking in a 3/4hp single phase motor in it, I can always go bigger variable in future if I like it, otherwise it is money sat doing nothing.


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## minilathe22 (23 Oct 2017)

In my opinion the biggest advantage of the VFD is when starting larger diameter work that is out of balance, allowing you to start at a very slow speed. If you want to do mostly spindle work, I don't think the VFD would have as much value.


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## Farmer Giles (23 Oct 2017)

I'm now struggling to get a 71 frame 3/4hp single phase 4 pole motor. 

Here's a quote from lathes.co.uk

_"Viceroy wood lathes were especially popular with educational establishments who, as a further safety precaution, often specified a motor less powerful than the 0.75 h.p. 3-phase unit recommended for commercial use. If you buy one of these lathes for home use (their compact dimensions in relation to their strength make them particularly popular in this role) and convert it to single-phase operation a 1 h.p. motor will be found adequate for most home workshops."_

I can get a 3/4hp 3 phase 4 pole in a 71 frame so that may be the way to go, which would mean a VFD.

A mentioned before, many have bigger cabinets, maybe this is a school special and because it had the smaller motor it had a smaller cabinet.

I've never pontificated over a motor purchase as long as this before


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## CHJ (23 Oct 2017)

I HP is more than enough to bite you if you don't give it due respect.


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## minilathe22 (23 Oct 2017)

Go for the VFD, it is well worth it. Some advantages of the VFD other than just the variable speed:

Emergency stop button locks the motor shaft (like most cordless drills do nowadays)

Spinup time can be set (eg 5 seconds from zero to the full speed)

ability to run the motor at higher than 50Hz. Most motors can take at least 10 - 20% over their recommended RPM

ability to run the motor in both directions (be careful as faceplates/chucks will need a locking screw)

motor fault/overcurrent protection built into the VFD

probably others that I am not aware of myself.


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## CHJ (23 Oct 2017)

minilathe22":14uf7jg3 said:


> .......Emergency stop button locks the motor shaft (like most cordless drills do nowadays)
> ......



A little caveat on that dependant upon invertor and whether it has current absorbing and associated heat dissipation resistors attached, otherwise it just coasts to a friction stop (The motor energy has to go somewhere) also another need for locking chuck to spindle to stop inertia unscrewing it on most lathes.


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## Farmer Giles (23 Oct 2017)

Thanks Guys

I've fitted VFDs to a Colchester Chipmaster lathe and a Tom Senior M1 mill, the lathe was a Mitsubishi, the Tom Senior was an Allen-Bradley. I sold the Chippie with the VFD but I still have the mill. The mill currently has a 1hp 3 phase motor on it and it could really do with 1.5hp. 

So I think the solution is to move the motor and VFD from the mill to the Viceroy and get a bigger motor/VFD for the mill later. Also the motor is an old Brooke Gryphon so shorter than modern motors so will fit in the cabinet.

Sometimes it takes a while for a plan to come together!

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (26 Oct 2017)

The motor saga has nearly ended. I believe I have found out why the Tom Senior mill was struggling, for some reason I have used a 1hp VFD with a 1hp motor, you should look at the current required not the hp, usually I use the 2 x rule of thumb, I did with the Chipmaster and it went like a bomb. I can't remember why I did it, I suspect I bought the VFD for another project then didn't do it and it sat on the shelf so go re-used. I'll check the full load amps to confirm this but it is highly likely to be the issue.

So I have bought and older Brooke Crompton 3ph 1425rpm 750w (1hp) motor second hand for the Viceroy with physical dimensions that fit the lathe cabinet with room to spare, with a bit of luck the shaft size will be the same as existing too. It is dual voltage so I don't have to delve into the windings to break out the star point to make it delta as I have done before with old motors.

Once the motor is delivered I will look at the FL current at 240 3ph out and then decide on a VFD size. The VFD on the Tom Senior mill will probably be relegated to the meddings pillar drill I'm renovating which is 1/2hp so fits the rule of thumb but will check the FLA on it first, I'm working away from home at the moment so will do it when I get back.

EDIT - the 2 x motor hp rule of thumb is only a guide, you need to check the full load amps of the motor at the supply voltage to the motor and the VFD output amps to get it accurate. Places like inverter supermarket are good at sizing so a 1hp VFD is more likely to suit a 1hp motor but if you buy one off the bay then make sure they are not being optimistic. Either way check the FLA 
Cheers
Andy+


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## Farmer Giles (31 Oct 2017)

The motor arrived yesterday, I didn't get much chance to look at it other than unwrap it to make sure there was no physical damage in transit. Physical size wise it looks perfect, from an full load amps perspective, it has one of those awful dot matrix punched ID plates and I believe it says 3.6 amps however I will double check this with the motor type data etc. The bearings sounded OK, it's previous life was driving a Boxford 280T metal lathe which has a cream ilivery, hence the motor colour.







If the 3.6 amps holds up, I may go for a WEG cold plate inverter, this has no cooling fan and relies on being bolted to a nice flat heat conductive surface. I would use an aluminium plate, possibly with a heat sink but I'm in Yorkshire where it is always a bit chilly, with a reasonable sized plate I think the 50W full load heat output will dissipate nicely. There is a model that has a rated continuous 4.0 amps output with 6.0 max, i.e. for 1 minute in every 10 minutes. Thinking about it, I do have a spare heatsink from a solid state relay so I may put that on the plate as belt and braces.

Why cold plate? Well, less noise so I can hear the radio rather than a cooling fan, plus less likely to draw dust from turning and other woodworking activities into it's innards. Also smaller so there is a chance I could mount it in the cupboard under the lathe, there is space above the motor and I don't think the combination of both will exceed 50c, plus I can bolt the aluminium plate to the steel wall of the lathe for additional cooling. Once the VFD set up, I shall not be fiddling with it, and if I ever do I shall make the plate easily removable so I can fiddle with it comfortably without the motor belt and pulley getting in the way. Alternatively I will mount it on the wall behind the lathe, I shall get it first then think about it.

Cheers
Andy


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## minilathe22 (31 Oct 2017)

Yes I would think a fan cooled heatsink is asking for trouble. I am now wondering if my 1.1kW rated VFD has a high enough current rating for the 3/4HP motor I have. More low end torque would be nice. I found space to mount mine to the inside of the lathe casting.


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## Farmer Giles (31 Oct 2017)

I think you will, a 550W motor and a 1.1kW VFD should have enough current however you will lose torque at lower speeds irrespective of current, see previous post with examples for a 2hp motor. Now if you have belt/pulleys and a VFD you have best of both worlds, just select a low gear when you really need low end torque


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## Farmer Giles (3 Nov 2017)

The VFD and other bits purchased, so time to take the old motor out, and at the same time give it a bit of a make-over. The winch is on a beam trolley on the other side of the workshop so used the engine hoist to lift the lathe away from the cast base and motor.






You can see how tight it is in there for the motor, the VFD is going in there too, very soon 






The new 3 phase and the old single phase on the bench, similar physical size but the white one is 1hp and the rusty old one is 1/4hp.






Happy days, the shaft diameter is the same, and similar lengths.






While it is on the bench I'll clean the base up, paint it, get the motor and VFD working together, then reassemble it with the new motor in place. I have a reasonable match for the original hammered paint in Rustoleum Combicolour, Hammertone Light Blue. I have a small tin plus a couple of aerosols. I found it difficult to get a decent consistent hammered finish by brush without sags or conversely brushing it out too much leaving it flat.

So I am putting the base coat on by hand to get some coating thickness, flatting it a little when dry and finishing it off with the aerosol. I would have got the sprayer out but it isn't a large surface area and by the time I had bought the thinners it was cheaper to buy the aerosol. I have no real desire to master the art of applying Hammerite beyond this lathe 

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (3 Nov 2017)

I started painting the door first, it, can be laid flat to paint and easy to get the DA on it if I make a mess. It doesn't look too bad but closer up there is a fair amount of rust and scratching.






So gave it a wash then sanded it down to remove all loose paint and gave it a rub down with degreaser.






The a light fill with Upol Dolphin Glaze. Normally I would fill and sand at least a couple of times but this isn't too bad so should get away with one.






Rub it down, I didn't bother going any finer than 120 grit on the Abranet.






I hand painted it very quickly so to avoid brush strokes, after a couple of days, here it is on the machine with very visible lines, you can't cross hatch like you can with enamel otherwise you get no hammered effect and given it is a Xylene based thinners I didn't want to add a paint conditioner. So this will be lightly flatted then sprayed to see if it gives better results.






If is warm enough tomorrow I shall give it go

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (4 Nov 2017)

**WARNING - this is the most dangerous thing I have done to date, anybody of a sensitive nature may not want to go any further, don't try this at home unless you don't mind singing castrato**

Well, the base of the lathe was filthy, and my parts washer is hidden behind the blast cabinet which is hidden behind an IBC cage of firewood so I couldn't be bothered to drag it out. But the base needed a good clean before painting. The wife said she was taking the youngest to the market so I had a couple of hours at least :twisted: 

So I threw the base in the sink in the utility room, she will never know, you won't tell her, will you? Please don't!   






And drying on the draining board next to some kind of root vegetable, she grows loads of weird stuff so I have stopped guessing as I am invariably wrong.






And now painted up in Colchester lathe Dove Grey, I was going to use Bridgeport milling machine grey as I has some left over from painting the Manchester hacksaw but couldn't find it.






Next job was repainting the door with the aerosol, I flatted it with 240 grit, a bit of panel wipe and it came out much better with a nice even hammered effect.






I then starting concentrating on the main body of the lathe. I unbolted the left hand cast table and laid the lathe down and started giving it a sand ready for filler. The base was dented a little so straightened that up. I've placed the VFD on a 8mm Aluminium plate to start sizing up where it will go and whether it will fit. The inverter will go on the inside roughly where it is shown on the outside in the photo below. The aluminium plate is 8mm thick so I can tap it for the VFD, heat sink, fixings to the cabinet and the p-clips for cable strain relief.






The heatsink will be attached next to the VFD on the plate, as the plate is bolted to the lathe it will also be able to transfer heat to the cabinet. It will have a bit of heat conductive paste on the back of the VFD and the heatsink, and I will put a bit between plate and cabinet if there is any left in the tube. On full 4 amp load the VFD dumps 50W so it should be fine without a fan. The motor consumes 3.1 amps in delta configuration at max load so the VFD should run it fine given it can exceed the 4A for short bursts too. We will soon find out 

Cheers
Andy


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## minilathe22 (4 Nov 2017)

Impressive paint skills, that door looks brand new! I just went over mine with a brush...


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## graduate_owner (4 Nov 2017)

Farmer Giles - a couple of points about inverters. I bought one and the instructions specified mounting in a IP 55 ( or so) cabinet, to prevent ingress of dust and moisture. My previous inverter failed and I suspect because of dust etc. So I mounted my new one in an airtight oversized metal cabinet, to allow plenty of air moment around the unit, and hopefully allow warmed air to conduct to the outside. I also wired via a 50 degree thermal cutout, which hasn't operated yet. The lathe is operated using a remote switch and rheostat housed in a plastic box which has magnets glued to the base, so I can attach it to any convenient metallic part of the lathe, or milling machine, or surface grinder - the inverter is used for all three by plugging in the appropriate lead.
My second point is in regards to the use of low speed. The motor is cooled via a fan, which obviously slows down as the motor is slowed down, thus reducing the cooling draught. You could therefore cause the motor to overheat which is not only more expense, but more hassle in re fitting a motor in the lathe cabinet ( done that myself, I know how much hassle it is). One solution would be to fit a small single phase motor with a fan running at full speed to keep the cooling going, but there is not much space for this in the viceroy. Just be aware of this issue though, perhaps keep very low speed usage to a minimum, and arrange the pulleys so as to help with this.

K


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## Farmer Giles (4 Nov 2017)

minilathe22":ok70wvbl said:


> Impressive paint skills, that door looks brand new! I just went over mine with a brush...



Thankyou, I never intended to give it the full monty, but it always happens, I start giving a machine a bit of TLC and before you know it its in bits. It will be impressive if I can replicate that finish on a vertical surface, it is easy when it's flat on the bench 



graduate_owner":ok70wvbl said:


> Farmer Giles - a couple of points about inverters. I bought one and the instructions specified mounting in a IP 55 ( or so) cabinet, to prevent ingress of dust and moisture. My previous inverter failed and I suspect because of dust etc. So I mounted my new one in an airtight oversized metal cabinet, to allow plenty of air moment around the unit, and hopefully allow warmed air to conduct to the outside. I also wired via a 50 degree thermal cutout, which hasn't operated yet. The lathe is operated using a remote switch and rheostat housed in a plastic box which has magnets glued to the base, so I can attach it to any convenient metallic part of the lathe, or milling machine, or surface grinder - the inverter is used for all three by plugging in the appropriate lead.



Thanks G-O. The inverter I'm using has two thermal sensors, it will cut out if the ambient temperature reaches 50c or the heatsink reaches 103c. With regards to the dust, all the switch gear and the inverter will be in the cabinet, and with the door shut there is not much room for dust ingress. I don't think I will be giving it as much hammer as your good self, plus the inverter has no fan so attracts less dust. So I'm nearly using a similar method, not completely sealed as yours is, I'll see how it goes when I start making shavings, the motor fan is bound to drag some dust in.



graduate_owner":ok70wvbl said:


> My second point is in regards to the use of low speed. The motor is cooled via a fan, which obviously slows down as the motor is slowed down, thus reducing the cooling draught. You could therefore cause the motor to overheat which is not only more expense, but more hassle in re fitting a motor in the lathe cabinet ( done that myself, I know how much hassle it is). One solution would be to fit a small single phase motor with a fan running at full speed to keep the cooling going, but there is not much space for this in the viceroy. Just be aware of this issue though, perhaps keep very low speed usage to a minimum, and arrange the pulleys so as to help with this.
> K



Thanks G-O, you also get much less torque at low motor speeds so using the gears rather than just the inverter to slow it down is a very good idea for two reasons. When I put the inverter on the Colchester Chipmaster, I replaced the variator (a very ingenious variable drive based on cones in oil) with the motor and VFD so effectively I had no other gears, but I only used really slow speeds for jogging the chuck around. On the Tom Senior M1 mill I have both belts and VFD, you can soon tell if your using too slow a motor speed as the torque drops off reminding you to use the belts, it comes second nature after a while.

I believe there are also some settings in the VFD so you cannot go past set low/high frequency hence motor speed thresholds. I'll check them out during commissioning.

I managed to do a bit more while the neighbours frightened the animals with fireworks. Plate drilled to M5 tapping size then holes transferred to the case and drilled 6mm. I'll tap the plate tomorrow and put it on the inside of the cabinet after mounting the VFD on the plate for a trial fitting.






Yes it does say "back bottom" on the plate, no sniggering in class please 

I also got much of the cabinet filled and partially rubbed down, then ran out of 120 grit Abranet, I found enough later to probably finish it.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (5 Nov 2017)

You certainly are making a good job of refurbishing that lathe. Mine - I had enough after changing the motor and repairing the tailstock, so it sits in my workshop resplendent with all original scratches, paint splashes and rust patches, but I enjoy using it.

K


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## Farmer Giles (6 Nov 2017)

Thanks G-O, it's a good point, why do I refurb it when it will probably not perform much different if I just fixed the main mechanical bits and start turning? I guess it is because it is a hobby and I enjoy using nice tools, but it may be genetic, my dad was the same  One of the plus sides is you get to know the machine inside out which helps a bit when using it.

The main reason I am concentrating on this rather than my Roubo bench is paint, it will be too cold to paint soon so want to get this painted and put back together pronto.

I filled and sanded the body at the weekend, and the underside of the table was flaky rust so gave it a rub down and it will get a couple of coats of Alfa red. I only had a couple of hours as I had building work to do.






The various knobs and levers I had ordered arrived. The large knobs are for the missing meddings quill handles, I have one, with two missing. The smaller ones come in two flavours, 4 imperial for the meddings various levers, and I bought 7 metric ones for the various T handles on the tailstock and rest bases/banjos. I always buy at least one spare knob (said the actress to the bishop  ) The levers are to lock off the tailstock quill and tighten the rests.






This evening I sat in the warm kitchen cleaning, sanding, degreasing then filling the tailstock, left hand table and the two banjos while quaffing a pint of home brew stout while the dog wandered the house whining trying to find somewhere to bury it's bone. Far better than watching the box 






Tinkering time over until Friday.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (10 Nov 2017)

Busy day, I was working from home and there is lots going on at work, then I had a tonne of wood pellets delivered for the log/pellet boiler I've just had fitted and will be commissioned next week. Then the builder turned up, then the roofer so I had to work a bit later to complete the bits I had to get done.

So it was nearly 8pm by the time I got into the house, and the wife went out to a charity karaoke party with her theremin leaving me with the youngest, the eldest is at camp this weekend.

I wanted to get some of the lathe done as the heat sinks and some other bits had arrived. So I quickly drilled and countersunk the plate for some M3 bolts as the heat sinks were pre-tapped.






The youngest made a brew then we set about mounting the heatsinks and VFD on the plate with some hex head bolts and thermal grease.






Eight year olds never do anything without explanations so we discussed what the VFD did and why while we bolted it together. So I went through single and three phase theory which struck a chord as she recognised the similarity with sound waves her music teacher has been talking about, she plays trombone. She picked it up surprisingly quickly and went to bed with a book to learn more about volts, amps, AC and DC etc. 






Once she was abed, I set about the tailstock with some Abranet to sand down the filler from last week and opened a bottle of homebrew. Tinkering time over today.

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Nov 2017)

A karaoke party with a theremin?????? Bleddy hell, that must be an education ....... :lol:


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## Farmer Giles (10 Nov 2017)

phil.p":37wt93xo said:


> A karaoke party with a theremin?????? Bleddy hell, that must be an education ....... :lol:



She plays the saw as well, but I don't think she has taken that with her this time


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Nov 2017)

Bill Bailey plays a theremin amonst other things - if you ever get the chance to see him he is brilliant. My wife hurt for two days from laughing - and she wasn't bothered about seeing him.


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## Farmer Giles (10 Nov 2017)

He's on the list now we have decent baby sitters


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## Farmer Giles (11 Nov 2017)

it was a bit chilly for painting today but it warmed up a bit in the afternoon, so in between ripping the utility room ceiling down and putting some temporary windows in the first floor extension, I stuck a heater up the bases nether regions and gave it a spot of paint. Yes I did turn the heater off before I sprayed it! Before, filled and sanded.







After, I shall do the front and headstock later.






I then finished off the sanding and filling of the tailstock






And gave that a spray, turned out better than I thought it would, the paint is quite tenacious and doesn't run much.






I also did the actuator cover, you can just see a bit of it in the next pic, the rim had been bent, but being aluminium, it was easy to squeeze it out with a bit of round steel bar and a bit of a squeeze in the vice.






Next job is to finish sanding down the tool rests and outboard table edge. It doesn't take long with 120 grit abranet.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (13 Nov 2017)

Too cold to paint and too cold to go into workshop at tea breaks to do a bit of tinkering, this is where I ended up yesterday. Mostly filled and sanded, just needs a final sand down and a wipe with degreaser and then it is ready for paint. I have a day off tomorrow and it is supposed to be a bit warmer so will get the fan heater on it in the morning and see if I can get the painting finished. I may mask it up this evening.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (14 Nov 2017)

The temp is up a couple of degrees today so finished masking it off, degreased it and gave it a spray. I'll take the masking off the various metal labels before the paint has set, that is always a scary moment.






All the ancillaries are sprayed too so I will leave it couple of days to harden then start reassembly. 






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (14 Nov 2017)

It hasn't turned out too bad, I took the masking off before the paint set so it doesn't drag the paint off the surface. Only issue was the masking tape took a bit of the black paint off the signs. Normally I would fully dismantle the lathe and push the rivets out from the back and take the signs off but this was supposed to be a quick makeover. If I did it it again I would use card and blu-tack or low tack masking tape. I have the masking tape on the bolts recessed into the headstock to remove but these are not near the painted surface so can be removed later.

With and without flash. When fully cured the film will be thinner and show off more imperfections but it will do for me.









Some more bits have arrived, I'm putting an extra on/switch on the lathe. The new switch will control the actuator, the old switch will control the VFD. I'm also putting a safety kick switch on it, it should be on the actuator to comply with safety regs as you get an air gap when the actuator turns off, however I may put it on the VFD. The rationale is that if it is on the VFD and I get used to using it to stop the lathe in normal use, then if there is an emergency it will be second nature to use. I'm still thinking about it.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (14 Nov 2017)

So while the paint dries I decided to move onto the motor. Firstly it is wired star or high voltage 415v, but luckily it is dual voltage, all that means is that the star point of the three windings are not soldered together internally but all 6 ends of the windings are available so it can be reconfigured as delta, sometimes called mesh, or low voltage 240v. Both modes are three phase.

Here's the set up as I got it, clearly wired for star with one motor wire on each of A, B and C, and 3 motor wires on the neutral. The neutral terminal effectively becomes the star point. There is also a power input on A B and C. The wiring diagram is conveniently placed behind the cover, sometimes these are illegible but this one is not too bad. Not all motors are like this, some have copper straps and by moving them you can change the mode. Some are hard wired in the windings and you have to dig around and find the star point, solder some wire on and extend the 3 missing ends into the wiring area, if your brave enough. If your not confident with any of this, get an electrician to do it for you.






The power lead makes it difficult to see so here it is without the power lead.






and now reconfigured for delta






and the power cable re-attached.






I was going to use the original power cable for bench testing of motor and VFD but the screened cable arrived just as I was writing this so I'll crimp some rings on it, solder a wire to the screen for the earth and cover the end in heat shrink first. I also received some 7 wire screened for the control cable.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (15 Nov 2017)

I have to say that looking at those photographs you have done a superb job of smartening up that lathe - quick makeover indeed. Makes mine look decidedly shabby.

K


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## Farmer Giles (15 Nov 2017)

Thanks G-O, I haven't done much today, final log/pellet boiler commissioning day so spent a lot of time going through endless menus on the management system as I was also being trained how to use it. Turn on date will be in two weeks as there's a bit of plumbing to do in the utility room that depends on me getting rid of old ceiling joists and a big beam so we can get rid of the pipes that went to the old boiler. Anyway I digress 






I had a tiny bit of the paint in the aerosol so I used that up on the inside of the machine, easier to do before I put the motor back in, there was a bit of rust forming. I painted the undersides of the tables Alfa red and I got some edge trim delivered for the bottom of the lathe. Next step is to bench test the lathe and VFD but the potentiometer hasn't turned up yet, I hadn't realised I had ordered it from China.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (16 Nov 2017)

My daughter and son-in-law had a pellet boiler installed about 3 years ago to take advantage of the government payments. They had a bit of trouble at first, with sensors failing etc but seem quite happy with it now. It does take up some space though, what with the boiler itself, the pellet hopper and the cylinder. We looked into having one ourselves but we would have lost our utility room. Plus I didn't fancy manhandling about 4 tons of pellets per year -OK now but in about 5 years, when I'm over 70, it might be an issue. No space for the auger fed system so it was stick with oil.

K


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## Farmer Giles (16 Nov 2017)

graduate_owner":dt79cih7 said:


> My daughter and son-in-law had a pellet boiler installed about 3 years ago to take advantage of the government payments. They had a bit of trouble at first, with sensors failing etc but seem quite happy with it now. It does take up some space though, what with the boiler itself, the pellet hopper and the cylinder. We looked into having one ourselves but we would have lost our utility room. Plus I didn't fancy manhandling about 4 tons of pellets per year -OK now but in about 5 years, when I'm over 70, it might be an issue. No space for the auger fed system so it was stick with oil.
> 
> K



I'm a spritely 55 but I've factored old age into it. In the short term we have a bobcat and the logs and pellets are in IBC cages and stillages respectively, I can move these around the back of the house on the bobcat forks, it just gets around with inches to spare. I will then drop them onto some trolleys I'm welding up so they can be wheeled into the boiler room. I made a semi-underground bunker by excavating 200 tonnes of earth and rock from around the back of the house and building the boiler room with tanked block, lots of reinforcing and concrete, a concrete roof that is felted and sealed and now covered in sedum or similar. All faced with reclaimed stone, that was last year's project. Here's a few pics.













































The chimney is 2 metres higher now and there is a path and green stuff growing.

Cheers
Andy


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## dickm (16 Nov 2017)

Reckon that store could be handy if Messers Trump and Putin start gettig silly with the missiles!
To slightly(?) hijack the thread, if anyone wants a s/h pellet boiler, pm me.


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## Farmer Giles (16 Nov 2017)

I just tested the motor and VFD. Here's the bench set up, purely in local mode at the moment, i.e. no remote start/stop or speed control. It is always best to start simple and add things so if there is an issue you know what is the likely cause. 






Once you turn it on, after its done its pre-check the VFD is ready to go as can be seen on the display.






After that it is simply a matter of pressing the on/off key then varying the speed. Out of the box this VFD is set to 3Hz, but remembers the last setting after power down. I took it up to 60Hz or about 1600rpm then back down to 50Hz. There is a very slight rattling noise from the motor, could be the rear shaft bearing, not sure, either way it is not difficult to change. I have no time to tinker tonight so will look closer in the morning.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (16 Nov 2017)

dickm":3uf7xdw9 said:


> Reckon that store could be handy if Messers Trump and Putin start gettig silly with the missiles!
> To slightly(?) hijack the thread, if anyone wants a s/h pellet boiler, pm me.



I'm looking for a pellet stove for the workshop, but not a boiler. Which boiler do you have?

The bunker may come in handy the way it's going at the moment. Will stock up on essentials like malt whisky, pale ale and bog roll


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## Farmer Giles (17 Nov 2017)

Before I take the motor apart to change the bearings, I thought I would complete the controls side as the wire wound potentiometer arrived. Apart from wiring it up, it means selecting various parameters and making changes to their values. I only had an hour this evening but got the 7 core screened cable attached and the speed control working from the potentiometer. The start/stop via the old buttons isn't working yet but I suspect have the switch NO and NC the wrong way round. I'll check that in the morning.

Other stuff that arrived included the edge trim for the bottom of the lathe, I didn't like the sound of the edge of the metal bottom dragging on the ground, however I may now find it interferes with the cast base, we will find out soon. It's this stuff, in the flesh it is quite good quality, if it does foul the base I will think of an alternative trim for the bottom






I also had some 10mm and 25mm 303 stainless rod delivered for the T-Bars and making the missing T-Bar holder. 303 is easier to machine that 304/314 variants, slightly less corrosion resistance but will be fine in the workshop. I have been told it is easy to thread too. I also found some 50mm x 6mm washers in 303, they are meant to be part of a balustrade, at the moment the lathe uses various piles of rusty penny washers. These are used on the underside of the table to spread the load of the T-bars when moving the rests around. I did look at buying a short length of 50mm diameter 303 and make my own washers and nearly died at the price, these were much cheaper.


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## Farmer Giles (18 Nov 2017)

With instruction manuals, it is often what they don't tell you rather than what they do tell you that catches you out.

The VFD speed control worked immediately, the on/off switch wouldn't. It requires a NO contact for start on one digital input, and a NC contact on the stop and another digital input. All set but no go. The switch was a bit filthy so I took it apart and the contacts were soot and verdigris covered and when testing with the meter they were intermittent. Cleaned up, testing OK, put it back on the VFD, still nothing.

Scratches head, reads manual, looks at fault codes in the manual, then I had the eureka moment. There are four digital inputs, the factory defaults are that these inputs are not disabled, all do something so the VFD is looking for certain conditions on the other two inputs that I am not using. Set them to disabled and it works  The manual tells you that these parameters do not rely on other parameter values, well it is plainly wrong if your not using forward/reverse etc. It should say set unused inputs to disabled.

So good to go now, just need to swap the bearings, so next job is to take the motor front and rear covers off and press the old bearings out.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (18 Nov 2017)

In between sorting out the guttering on the back of the house that needed shortening due to the extension, I got the motor dismantled and the bearings identified.

Undoing the four screws that go through the motor from front to back covers and tapping it with a rubber mallet loosened the front cover sufficiently to pries it off gently with a couple of screwdrivers complete with armature and both bearing.











I then used some hub pullers to remove the front cover from the armature. The covers are aluminium and quite delicate so I just put a small amount of pressure on it then heated the cover with a heat gun and the cover slid off nicely.






The bearings are both SKF 6203-2Z less than four quid each. I've ordered a couple, I shall remove the old ones from the armature tomorrow if I get time.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (28 Nov 2017)

Bearings changed in the motor and tested ready to receive the lathe body.






A reminder of how it looked when I bought it






how it looks now






Mainly looks standard except the speed control knob next to the on/off switches and the bristol levers instead of the simple levers it would have had if they weren't mainly missing/odd/rusted.

There is only one t-bar and thread clamp assembly, that is on the headstock, the others two for the rests are poor or missing, here's the poor one with nuts rather than knobs along with some stainless steel bar and new knobs, I may as well make all three the same.






So phase one more or less complete apart from the clamps. The next phase is to put the tacho and the actuator/thermal limiter back in. Here's he magnet for the tacho next to the drive belt to the headstock.






Next job is to affix the hall effect sensor that will pulse when the magnet passes the end of it. The sensor is not long enough to fix to the headstock cover plate directly so it will be via a bracket when I get around to it.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (13 Apr 2018)

It's been a while since I updated this thread as I jumped into the thread about changing Viceroy bearings for a while.

Now that has been done and I have been on a 2 day training course at Turners Retreat I can now finish this off.

I am putting adding the digital display and the installation of the contactor on hold for a while, so I can make a few shavings and see how it performs. Here's first results, just cleaning up a bowl blank, not sure what wood, the label dropped off 






*Things to do*


The tool needed sharpening as it was straight out of the box, this means installing the sorby jig on my grinder.
I need to make 3 new adjusting screws for underneath the banjos and tailstock. I bought the bars and knobs ages ago, I just need to pull my finger out.
Raise the lathe a little. It's not stupidly low but not the ideal height for me to hold the tool correctly. I have some 50mm box section that I can weld a base out of at the same time as I am making a base for my fly press.
I've put up a couple of shelves, just need to sort out tool storage properly
Once they are done I will revisit the contactor and digital display.

Other than that all relatively good, I'm not that keen on the distance from the headstock to the work but due to the weird headstock thread then I had to have the external adaptor for the chuck which pushes it out a couple of inches. The machine doesn't bounce around or vibrate with the unbalanced blank which is good.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (14 Apr 2018)

Today was bitter sweet. It started well, I cracked on and installed the Sorby grinding jig. The jig was to go on the movable bar that I already installed on my sharpening station a couple of years ago for just such and installation.






However it needed a plate fitting to allow all four fixing screws to be used and keep the jig stable. So I found a bit of 4mm plate in the scrap bin and tack welded it in position from underneath. Note the plastic 25mm plug that I forgot to remove before welding - doh!  :lol: it survived just, but somewhat modified.






I then turned it over and fully seam welded the plate on the top, ground it flat, drilled it and painted it black. Then did the DIY that I should have been doing while it dried  I also had to raise the grinder by about 10mm as the centre line of the wheel needs to be 135mm from the base of the jig, I used four M14 nuts as spacers, you can see them in the following pic.






Next I mounted the jig with four M5 bolts and decided to sharpen the existing profile rather than reshape to a finger nail profile.






The first attempt wasn't too bad, this was two light passes.






And it made a huge difference to the shavings coming off






So I cracked on and made more shavings until the RCD tripped on the consumer unit, after turning the VFD back on it came up with error E000 which has several possible causes including a short between phases, output overload etc. I reset it and it seemed fine, it is very compact in the motor, cupboard, not easy to troubleshoot so I thought I would crack on and see if it was a one off. I wasn't taking big cuts and the VFD was at just over 50hz when there was a bit of a bang :roll: 

The barn MCB and RCD had tripped this time and there was a faint electrical burning smell in the cabinet. I suspect the motor needs as rewind, that is a danger of buying a second hand motor that you don't know the history of, and motors don't last forever.

I had to take the base off anyway to add the box section to raise the lathe, while I am in there I shall inspect the motor and see if the insulation has broken down between phases and if need be get a rewind, I just hope there is no lasting damage to the VFD.

Just as I was enjoying making a bowl for a neighbours birthday, she will have to have wine instead 
Cheers
Andy


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## minilathe22 (14 Apr 2018)

That is bad luck with the motor! I would not have thought that a rewind of the motor would be worth the cost compared to picking up a second hand or even a new motor. 

Another thing to consider, older motors were never built to run on varying frequencies from a VFD, but more modern motors are designed with this usage in mind. At lower frequencies the current in the motor windings can be quite high, and the cooling fan is turning much slower, so the temperature can quickly rise. Did you set the maximum current rating of the motor in the VFD settings?

I used an old motor with a VFD and found that if you set the motor to stop very quickly, then the VFD threw an error every time you pressed the stop button. I then replaced it with a modern ABB motor and found that this did not happen, even with the same settings in the VFD. I am currently debating whether to add an always on fan above the motor to help prevent problems.

Hope you get it all sorted soon.


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## Farmer Giles (14 Apr 2018)

Thanks Minilathe

Unfortunately I had problems getting a modern motor with any grunt to fit in the small cabinet, hence the older motor as the form factor is smaller. A modern 1hp motor will not fit. Given its the older motor shape, it isn't actually that old, but I think it may have had a hard life as it came out of a Boxford lathe usually used for training. The viceroy comes in two cabinet sizes, I didn't think it would make much difference when I bought the lathe. 

It really wasn't doing much work and bang on 50hz so normal speed when it went so unless I've got a duff VFD then I'm pretty sure the motor needs a rewind. It's a cold plate VFD and there was no heat in the heatsinks. I believe it is about 50 quid for a rewind, and given the issues I had finding a motor to fit I think I will get it done. I could always extend the cabinet but that would be a lot of messing about and ruin the aesthetics  

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (16 Apr 2018)

I hoisted the lathe off the base and took the VFD and motor to the bench.

The motor tests fine, no shorts between phases or to earth and all phases have the same resistance.

Tried the VFD on another motor. error E41 came up on the VFD - return to supplier, output probably duff. The VFD is still under warranty so sending it back for repair/replacement.

I think I have been unlucky and got a duff VFD as I haven't stressed it all. The good news is that the other motor I found, still boxed up is a 1hp, 3ph, 1430 rpm 4 pole 80 frame Crompton Parkinson motor. I can't remember buying it but it may just fit in the cabinet. It is the same shaft size as the old one, just needs the plate drilled for the B3 foot so while I have the lathe off the base I will try it for size.


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## Farmer Giles (20 Apr 2018)

While I'm sorting out the motor, I thought I would raise the lathe a bit. The centre was about 70mm below my elbow and it seems the preferred height is at the elbow or just above. Given I had some 50mm box section knocking about, the idea is to raise it 100mm so the centre will be about 30mm above my elbow.

Here's the box section being marked out after being cut to length.







And a dry run before I clean up the steel for welding after cutting out the floor fixing tabs with the angle grinder






Their will be a strip of 50mm steel above the bottom box section. Ventilation to the inside of the lathe where the VFD is located will be improved but will be underneath the lathe, 100mm off the floor and to the side so as most shavings fall to the front or back then it shouldn't mean the motor fan attracts shavings.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (21 Apr 2018)

Frame marked up for welding and held in place with some mag switches






Now painted with two coats of black smoothrite. Once this has set I will bolt the existing cast lathe base to the new base.






So onto the pulley. Drill out to 18mm then gradually ream out to 19mm with an adjustable reamer






Next job is not so easy, the old keyway has almost all gone now






And it has to accommodate this key. You can see the telescopic gauges I was using to measure the bore of the pulley below it.






The usual way is to use a broach in a mill or even a vertical drill but don't use the motor. Clamp the pulley to the table and use the quill to shave off thin 0.05mm slices at a time. You can use a lathe and put the broach in the toolpost and use the crossslide in a similar way. But I don't have the broach, I can make one but may resort to a file, but other DIY needs to be done, I shall return to this in the evening.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (21 Apr 2018)

Well, I nearly made a mess of that.

Don't ream the hole out like I did!

A straight cutting edge tool like adjustable reamers are no good when you have a key way. The cutting edge falls into the keyway making the tool deflect so you end up with an off centre hole. Best to use a boring bar on a lathe if possible, or at least a helical cutter.

My neighbour is tool maker and has taken it to work to sort it out. More haste less speed, lesson learned  

I shall get on with mounting the new motor and swapping out the VFD.

Cheers
Andy


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## TFrench (22 Apr 2018)

Whooops! Good to know, I'd never have thought of that happening.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Apr 2018)

TFrench":28dtuw18 said:


> Whooops! Good to know, I'd never have thought of that happening.



Hopefully this will stop somebody from suffering the same issue.

If it turns out that I have ruined it then given there isn't enough meat on the pulley to bore it put and use a taper bush, I will buy a twin pulley for about 25 quid and a taper bush to fit for about 10. As I'm running a VFD I think two ratios will be enough.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (26 Apr 2018)

The bad news was that I had bored it out about 0.5mm off centre and slightly more on the otherside as the reamer deflected. so off kilter too.

The good news is that a chap on the MIG welding forum pointed me in the direction of these, a 19mm to 24mm sleeve. This typically allows an 80 frame motor shaft to be used on a gearbox or similar that normally takes a 90 frame motor shaft but you can get other sizes.






As I won't have two bites of the cherry, my neighbour has taken the pulley to work to bore it out to 24mm ID and straighten in the process. I could have done it on the lathe but I'm working away plus he works as a toolmaker in the aerospace industry so a better chance of getting a good outcome  

Once it has been bored out I need to put an 8mm keyway in it. I was going to make a tool but I thought I had better play safe, but the proper broaching tool is about 60 quid. Fortunately a neighbour needs a similar keyway cutting so we have gone halves. Still more than I wanted to spend but I intend to cut a similar keyway in a pulley for a milling machined when I increase the motor size so it just about justifies the cost.

I'm looking after the kids at the weekend so may not be this weekend that I get it all back together.

I'm making a bit of an epic out of it!

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jun 2018)

It has taken a while, I got the pulley bored out to 24mm, and I obtained a 8mm broach with a 24mm guide bush and spacers. But my fly press didn't have a stand, which is needed to push the broach through the pulley. I was sick of rigging up temporary lash ups so first make a stand.

Here's the press on the floor






Cut up some 50mm box on the Rapidor donkey saw, I already had a sheet of 4mm steel for the top.






Cut a hole in the top with the plasma cutter using an old shower head as a template






Weld it up and drop the press on top with a winch






Get the broach set up, you can see the guide bush here, it will be inside the pulley before the broach is pushed down, once the broach is all the way through you add a spacer to the bush and do it again, repeat until the keyway is deep enough






Yippee, pulley keyway cut






next job, insert the 6mm key into the sleeve that attaches to the motor shaft, nothing is easy on this build, the key is a couple of mm too high so I had to take it down on the milling machine, a file would have done it but the mill is quicker






Same again but with the 8mm key that locates the sleeve hence the motor shaft to the pulley, again a bit needed taking off in the mill.






The pulley went on with a tap of a hide mallet, not loose but not over tight. I pushed it on until the motor body is just missing the inside of the pulley.






Next job is to bolt a mounting plate to the existing plate for the motor foot to sit on as it currently overhangs the existing plate.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (23 Jun 2018)

Between buying paint for the youngest's new bedroom, buying chickens, a brace of crested Legbars and a pair of Lakenvelders and walking the dog to the pub I managed to get the adapter plate completed.

I marked placed the motor on the plate in the approximate position then marked the plate up for the holes on a B frame motor which are spaced 100 x 125mm.

I drill them then countersunk them with a zero flute cobalt countersink.






I used some M8 countersunk set screws I found in the workshop, they were galvanised and I wanted to weld them in so I don't need to remove the plate to hold the screws if I ever want to swap the motor so ground the galv off. The fumes from welding while galv is about is not good for you. I forgot to take a picture after welding but I just tacked them in and ground off any high spots so the plate sits flat






Then bolted the motor down, I used flange nuts for this trial fit, but I will be using nyloc nuts for final fixing. I clamped the plate down in approximate position ready for the trial fit.






Then put the motor base on the floor and lower the cabinet onto it, I'm using a pair of eye bolts in the tool rest slots to lift the machine, the bit of metal with hooks on that the slings hang off is a gadget my dad made for lifting A series engines out of minis.






I used a 2 foot steel rule to line up the top and bottom pulleys once I was sure the bolts that hold the cabinet down are aligned. I did this several times to make sure it was spot on. Originally I was going to slot the plate so that there is some adjustment but the centre pulley location is fixed so if you line it up correctly then there is no need for further lateral adjustment.






I marked up the plate location in relation to the base, took the motor off, selected bolt hole locations where they don't coincide with ribbing underneath the cast base or collide with the foot of the motor. I drilled the plate in the pillar drill then clamped the plate to the base and drilled through with the cordless, I'm using M8 bolts so 8.5mm holes to give a little clearance. 

I gave it a second coat of Bridgeport grey when I got back from the pub. Tomorrow, with a bit of luck between painting the nippers bedroom I should be able to get the motor fitted at last 






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (24 Jun 2018)

The motor is all bolted up, tested with the VFD on the bench and on the floor ready to lower the lathe onto it.






Once lowered onto it and bolted onto the base rather than grovelling on the floor I sat it on a low bench while still attached to the hoist. I had to change to a slightly longer lower belt and it's a pain to do but easier than being on the floor.

All in and working, note the space on the left below the pulley, this space is normally blocked by the floor but as I lifted it off the ground 100mm I purposely made sure the new base didn't block this and it's opposite number on the other side so air flow to the motor and VFD are improved.






Close up of the WEG cold plate, passively cooled VFD and heatsink. I'll tidy the wiring up when I move onto the digital display.






The motor spec doc for the Brook motor does not specify a clearance distance from the cooling fan, just that one is needed, however similar size/spec motors specify 50mm and there is just bang on 50mm. With the additional ventilation below I think it will be fine.






So nearly there, while the base is on this low bench, I'll get the power cabling tidied and provide mains to the rev counter PSU.

Cheers
Andy


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## TFrench (24 Jun 2018)

Great work, tidy as always. I tried to do a rev counter on my graduate but ran into issues with interference from the VFD. Once I started using it I realised you pretty quickly get a feel for whats right speedwise, rather than having to know the exact RPM. Still be a nice feature to have though!


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## Farmer Giles (24 Jun 2018)

TFrench":kx2tnze1 said:


> Great work, tidy as always. I tried to do a rev counter on my graduate but ran into issues with interference from the VFD. Once I started using it I realised you pretty quickly get a feel for whats right speedwise, rather than having to know the exact RPM. Still be a nice feature to have though!



Thanks  I had something similar on the Colchester lathe but a smoothing capacitor on the power supply fixed it, but there was no VFD on that, could have been the motor. I shall have to remember to use screened cable, It's going into a die cast box that may help.


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## Farmer Giles (25 Jun 2018)

I used an old power supply off of a set of PC speakers to test the tacho today, it worked fine so have set about fitting it. I just put the magnet 
on the shaft, set the lathe going to what I thought was about 300 rpm and moved the sensor towards it. It worked a treat. Here's the wiring diagram that I put together as the diagram that comes with it is useless.






The first problem was mounting the magnet, if the magnet was glued to the base of the pulley then there isn't enough length on the sensor to reach it. So instead I got a small piece of aluminium angle and glued the magnet to that then to the outside of the pulley. It weighs 4 grammes total, so not a lot of imbalance, I can always put 4 grammes on the opposite side later to balance it out.

I glued it with little bit of epoxy after making sure the location was free of dirt and oil.






The sensor went through the back plate and was adjusted to leave a few mm gap.






Finally I cut out the die cast box that the display will go into and drilled it for the mounting holes and gave it a spray.






Once dry the box will be mounted to the rear of the lathe , you will see later.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (25 Jun 2018)

Part two of the rev counter. it didn't take anywhere near as long as I thought it would so I finished it during tea break.

I bolted the box onto the top of the lathe at the back using the top two existing bolts that hold the top pulley cover on.






I wired it up temporarily to test it.






It worked a treat






So wired it up properly and put the cover on. The power lead was going to be routed inside the lathe but on second thoughts the steel/iron body of the lathe is a very good screen of interference from the VFD so I thought I would leave it external.






I've ordered a 12 LED goose-neck light to fit on the bottom two screw holes of the pulley plate given that I have a 12v supply in the lathe.

Next step is to sort out the bolts, spacers and bristol levers for the tool holders and tailstock then we are done.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (28 Jun 2018)

One of the fixings for the tool rests is completely missing and one has the knobs missing and only one of the three has a decent washer on it. I can get by and do a bit of turning but I am intent on finishing what I started.

My original plan was to make facsimiles out of stainless steel complete with new knobs, but this is not a good design for the main tool rest as the tbar bangs on the side of the lathe making it difficult to tighten, a bit of a poor design.

So I have changed tack and instead I'm using Bristol levers, some 1/2" BSW threaded rod, some spacers from a stainless steel balustrade and a length of 30mm OD aluminium rod. I couldn't find male levers threaded 1/2" BSW.






The threaded bar will be cut into 3 and loctited into the Bristol levers. The aluminium will be cut to make 3 lengths and bored out to accept the threaded bar. The stainless spacers will be drilled out to take the rod.

Although the spacer is the same OD as the original washer, or at least I think it is the original, it is fine for the outboard tool rest and tailstock, but is slightly too large for the main tool rest. Here's the "original" washer next to the new, along with the only complete T-Bar.






Outboard tool rest slot with spacer in position, the hole is central in the slot






And the main tool rest, the hole is not central as it is a bigger casting and the rim of it is thicker pushing the washer over a bit so I will need to take a few mm off the OD.






I'll just make one complete clamps to begin with, see how I like it then make any improvements, I may end up using the existing complete T-bar for the tailstock and the Bristol levers for the tool rests, I shall see.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (29 Jun 2018)

The wife is away on a permaculture training course for six days so I took the day off as there was loads to do. Unfortunately none of it workshop based, but I did get 40 minutes later on after the kids went to bed.

I made a prototype clamp with the spacer 60mm long, the lever was far better than the existing T-bar. I adjusted the length to 53mm as I have a 3 x 100mm threaded studs and I needed a bit more visible thread and at that length the levers still miss the apron on the castings.

So while I had the drill in the tailstock and the parting tool in the toolpost I bored out two more and parted them off at 53mm.






If I get 10 minutes tomorrow I will chamfer the edges and etch prime the spacers. I have sourced some 40mm OD stainless washers for the top which should be here next week so by then I will have the spacers painted then I can finish the lathe and finish the bowl I started before the motor died.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (2 Jul 2018)

I managed to get the spacers chamfered in the lathe then a light rub down and degrease and a coat of etch primer on Saturday and yesterday I gave them a coat of blue hammered finish to match the rest.

Today I only had time to assemble them and use Loctite thread locker on the levers.






I also painted the tailstock hand wheel at the weekend.






Once then 40mm OD stainless washers arrive for the clamps I will fit them and bolt the lathe to the floor, then that is about it for now. I may reinstate the contactor and fit the emergency stop button at some point but I need to move on and finish the roubo bench and start making cabinets for the utility and kitchen soon, oh, and the daughter wants a new bed, and a desk, and a bookcase and an ensuite fitting.........


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## Farmer Giles (6 Jul 2018)

The 40mm M12 A2 stainless washers arrived for the toolpost and tailstock clamp so it's finished, I give you the "Variable Viceroy" 






As you can see from the next pic, the missus bought me some more bowl blanks 






The swan neck 12v LED lamp arrived, this was going to be attached to the back of the box where the digital display and a 12v supply resides but I thought it would get in the way so I wired it up to the box but fitted it to the board behind the lathe. The only think remaining to do is to bolt the base down. I may tart up the floor a bit first before I do that.

I could do with a shelf for chucks, jaws and what not, I was thinking of a shelf with hole and indentations to take them securely behind the lathe but would probably get covered in shavings. I was also thinking of a chisel rack too. What do you do with these?

Cheers
Andy


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## TFrench (7 Jul 2018)

This is what I made for mine:



The chuck jaws all hang on nails in the side of the cabinet. Crude but you can see them all and they don't get covered in shavings.


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## Farmer Giles (7 Jul 2018)

I like that a lot. I may move the bottom shelf and do something similar.


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## TFrench (8 Jul 2018)

To be fair the bottom shelves would be better with doors on to keep the shavings out. I just copied one I found on pinterest! They are handy for keeping all the allen keys and bits and bobs you need all the time though.


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## Farmer Giles (8 Jul 2018)

I meant move my bottom shelf, but on second thoughts I'm going to move both my shelves and make something similar to yours 

I've sized it up for the cutting list but it may be a while, there's a fair queue in front of it 

Cheers
Andy


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## Woodmonkey (8 Jul 2018)

Great job on the lathe, that looks like a superb machine. 
You are one of those annoying gits who seems to know how to do everything and makes it look easy aren't you!


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## Farmer Giles (8 Jul 2018)

Woodmonkey":3w0eaeup said:


> Great job on the lathe, that looks like a superb machine.
> You are one of those annoying gits who seems to know how to do everything and makes it look easy aren't you!


Thanks!
I wish it was that easy :lol: 
A lot is trial and error, I do make a lot of cock-ups


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## graduate_owner (21 Feb 2019)

Well Farmer Giles, I wonder how you are getting along with turning on your viceroy, having spent so much time on the refurbishment.
Are you enjoying your turning?

K


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## Farmer Giles (21 Feb 2019)

To be honest, I have only done a couple of small jobs on it, fatherhood, DIY and the day job and finishing off the Roubo bench have got in the way. But I did dust if off the other day and was just about to raise the chisel to the bowl I started months ago when I got a call on the dads taxi hotline.

A neighbour bought a lathe recently with the intention of getting into the hobby so I'm hoping that between us we will get a bit more turning done.

I have some machines to sell that need a bit of TLC before they go, and a kitchen to build, after that I will have a lot more time for making wooden things, I hope......

I shall post a pic of the bowl when I finish it, I may be able to get that done over the next few days.

Cheers
Andy


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## graduate_owner (22 Feb 2019)

Hah, that sounds familiar. When I retired, I thought I would have plenty of time for turning but not so. I keep telling myself that once the house is finished, and the garden is weeded and well mulched, then I will have time for fun in the shed. But realistically I don't think the house will ever be finished. Still I take advantage of the time available.
I have been following your details regarding removing the spindle of the viceroy, and I have to say it has been really helpful. I am at the stage where the bearings are off and it is time to start fighting with the pulley. It's not the Viceroy lathe actually, it is from a spare viceroy headstock I bought. I might make up a bowl turning lathe from it, or perhaps a dual sided disc sander. 
All good fun.
Anyway, enjoy your turning.

K


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## graduate_owner (12 Jun 2019)

Hi again all,
Well I managed to get the pulley off the viceroy spindle, and to remove the spindle. My next job I to mount the spindle in the 3 jaw chuck of my Colchester, screw on an adaptor which is slightly off centre, and turn it up accurately. The adaptor is needed because I bought a woodturning chuch with several jaw sets, but it is for a Shopsmith I think. Anyhow it just has a parallel hole to mount onto the headstock, no thread, just a grub screw. I thought to have an adaptor rather than risk boring out and threading the actual chuck, in case of cock ups. So my plan is to run welds along the parallel shaft of the adaptor and then turn it down to suit the hole in the chuck. 
Can anyone suggest a better method?

In the meantime my turning continues sporadically, using drive centres and faceplate for the viceroy, and the Axminster evolution chuck on my graduate. I don't know if I mentioned this but I bought the viceroy because I thought the thread was the same as the graduate. Well they are both 1 1/2" but graduate is 6 tpi and viceroy is 8 tpi. Standardisation would be so helpful.


K


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## CHJ (12 Jun 2019)

Rather than weld I would turn(bore) an interference fit oversize sleeve to go on the spindle and then turn that outer diameter to suit your chuck.
If a 'sleeve' to fit existing spindle would be too thin a wall perhaps turning the spindle down first would be an option.


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## graduate_owner (12 Jun 2019)

Thanks Chas. Just out of interest, why would you find this to be a preferable course of action?

K


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## CHJ (12 Jun 2019)

graduate_owner":ejrhxzao said:


> Thanks Chas. Just out of interest, why would you find this to be a preferable course of action?
> 
> K


It can all be done on one piece of kit, the lathe. 

I personally always considered weld repairs as a last resort fix for components such as this that may distort, even using aero engine certified TIG welders.

Might just be me being old school.


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## graduate_owner (17 Jun 2019)

The spindle will need reducing, there's not a lot of meat there. I think I may have to start with a cylinder about 40mm diameter and turn to fit the chuck, but leave a step as a flange which I can drill and screw into the adapter. Sounds like a lot of turning. I wonder how long it will take.

K


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