# BucksDad Workshop Build



## BucksDad

So even though I've been thinking about a workshop for most of 2021, nothing has happened with this yet as we've had other priorities, however we are having the garden landscaped soon so the workshop planning is starting up again.

So, the plan is to build a 3m x 3m workshop on a concrete base with 2 course bricks with a flat roof and everything under 2.5m. One single door on one side and an 800 x 450 window on another.

The plan is to make it look garden office and be an easy conversion to an office space so that if we do sell, it's another tick in the box for prospective buyers.

I have worked out the costings below and used various online calculators to get to these figures. My brain just does not seem to get on with 3d modelling programs to actually draw this out. The costings below don't include the base / bricks as that is already covered by the garden landscaping costing.

Let me know what you think of the costings, anything I've missed and any value engineering ideas! Prices are a combination of local timber yard and wherever is cheapest locally (e.g. Wickes for OSB)

- 4 x 2 Studwork - 4.2m lengths x 35 - £12.60 each - total £441
- 47 x 150 x 3.6m joists - 14 - £16.2 each - £226
- 25 x 38 x 3.6m battening - £200
- Firring strips - 9 - £10 each - £90
- OSB T&G 18mm roof sheets - 10 - £26 each - £260
- 90mm PIR insulation - 14 - £45 each - £630
- OSB 11mm 8 x 4 for walls - 12 - £29 each - £348
- Plasterboard 12.5mm walls - 12 - £10 each - £120
- Plasterboard 12.5mm ceiling - 3 - £10 each - £30
- Tyvek Housewrap - 1 - £115
- Iro Cladding (2 sides) - 8 pack 5 of - £195 each - £975
- Box Profile Cladding (2 sides ) - £200
- EPDM Roof - £480
- Vinyl Flooring Tiles - £230
- UPVC Window - £120
- Solid Core Door (will be clad with Iro Timber) + fixings - £175

That comes to a total of £4655. Added on 15% for contingency / fixings etc gives a total of £5350

The obvious saving would be cheaper cladding for the 2 visible sides, but I really like the Iro look, as does the design committee.

I'm also allowing £1000 for provision of electrics.

I'm also going to have to get someone to build this for me. I have built 2 'sheds on wheels' for the side of my house (will put a build thread up sometime soon when they're finished) and it has taken me so long with so many mistakes - as would be expected for my first attempt at anything like that. The design committee doesn't have the trust / patience for me to do it and realistically, I don't think I have the time / skills / tools either and being a small(ish) garden with nowhere to hide it, I want it to look nice.

So I'm also going to allow for 10 days at £250 / day for a joiner/carpenter to build it (or as much as they will for 10 days, I'd hope 10 days would mean at least it would be watertight, door and window fitted. I figured I can do some of the internals).

Anyway, that means the entire cost comes to:-

Materials - £5350
Electrician + Electrics - £1000
Labour - £2500

Grand Total - £8850

This is an expensive hobby!!


----------



## Fitzroy

Some thoughts.

3mx3m is not very big, but it may be all you have space for. Also watch out are you talking external or internal. I built a shed 5yrs back now (gosh) and was planning on 3m x 6m, internally it's 2.7m x 5.7m, and the 2.7m is just too narrow for two outer worktops and a central bench. With clad walls and insulaution and linings you lose a good bit.

EPDM roof looks expensive. I recently did my outhouse roof at 3.1x3.8m and it was £250 for rubber, adhesive, edging etc from www.permaroofstore.co.uk

You have no cost for screws/nails. If you are screw fixing your cladding with visible screws I'd suggest stainless. Probs looking at £100-£150 for all your needs, so could be in your contingency.

Electrics are my bane, I still run an extension lead out to mine! I'm 70m of run lenght from the consumer unit at the front of the house to the shed so I need a local earth spike blah blah. I was quoted £2k a few years back for a 10mm2 connection.

Timber costs have really soared so probs not a great direct comparison, but my build costs are here WIP: 6mx3m Pent Workshop build: Exterior Done!. Ignore the electrics estimate (it was wishful thinking).

There are cheaper alternatives to Tyvec, likely save you £50.

It looks like you have an aweful lot of timber for a 3x3 shed.
- You have 200 meters of stud and joists, I used 300m in my 3mx6m build
- 12 OSB sheets will cover 35m2 of wall, you only have 28m2 on a 3x3x2.4m shed. Also not sure what you are using the OSB for as you have plasterboard for the internal linings. With a clad shed you don't need anything on the outside, it's insulated studwork, house wrap, battens then cladding. Adding an OSB layer becomes a condensation risk
- The surface for the EPDM doesn't need to be T&G, just 18mm osb or plywood will be fine (plywood was cheaper on my recent roof than OSB). Should save you a bit against that £260

Having someone else build it to your spec and with your materials will need careful control and lots of work upfront to find the right person. You'll have folks sat around waiting for you to say how to do something if it's not crystal clear.

Fitz.


----------



## Jameshow

Why 10 roofing sheets surely 3 1/2 should cover the roof? 

Also 14 6x2 I would have thought 6 on 2ft centres plus 2 each end = 8??? Even 16" centers would be 11? 

Looks good otherwise. 

Cheers James


----------



## martin.pearson

How far & when are you planning the electrics? If your getting the garden landscaped then you might want to include any trenching work with that if you haven't already.


----------



## BucksDad

Thanks for all the comments.

Very nice build you have there Fitzroy. The fact it took you a year and you look very competent is exactly the worry I would have if I did it myself 

*Dimensions*
Yes I am aiming for 3 x 3m internal finished dimensions. The actual size of the pad will be 3260 x 3260mm. This will allow for 100mm for the brick base (cladding will overhang) and 30mm internal for OSB + plasterboard. My garden area is approx 20m x 15m so I don't have room for anything bigger without encroaching on the space for the kids.

*Studwork*
The studwork calculation was done with 400 centres with a stud height of 1981 with a calculation of :-

2500mm height

Roof - 2mm EPDM roof. 18mm OSB. 50mm firring. 145mm Joists. Total roof of 215mm
Base - 50mm concrete (above ground) + 160mm brickwork = 210mm base

Remaining height for timber frame = 2075mm. Minus 47mm top plate & 47mm bottom plate = 1981 stud height

Wall Framing Calculator with Stud Spacing Diagram Metric (blocklayer.com) The calculator allowed for all the studs plus 3 plates - top, bottom and noggins. That works out to 122 linear metres. I added on a few extra lengths for extra stud work around doors and window.

*Roof Joists*

Has to be 400mm centres with that size of joist. Extra lengths allowed to have a 10cm overhang on each side

*Screws / Nails - *Sorry I should have said. The 15% contigency was to include screws / nails etc.

*OSB Wall*

Yes sorry I worked on 3 sheets per wall but forgot the 3rd sheet would have wastage which could be used on the next one. As you say, could come down by a couple of sheets probably. The plan was to put OSB + plasterboard inside - one to deaden sound and two to make it really easy to fix stuff and not faff about with plasterboard fixings but maybe it's overkill and I should dump the OSB.

*Roof sheets - @Jameshow *the T&G roof sheets are only 600mm wide, not a full size sheet. I will swap these out per @Fitzroy suggestion for full sheets.

RE: someone building it. I was going to outline the rough way I wanted things built but leave them to design, procure all materials etc. I just wanted to calculate an initial set of costs so I had something to benchmark

*Electrics* - yes @martin.pearson good points. There will be a digger in the garden for the landscaping / levelling so agreed with the landscape that the trench will be dug as part of that and I will put the cable in. Electrics will all be surface mounted and with a small room, radial circuits and wago connectors, it shouldn't take long either!


----------



## Jameshow

Using full sized sheet OSB / ply sheets will save £20 a sheet.

I would procure all the materials in one go this getting a better discount than in dribs and drabs...

I'd dump the plaster board and paint the usb walls white. 

Cheers James


----------



## BucksDad

I guess I could, but I think OSB even painted just doesn't look nice


----------



## Spectric

BucksDad said:


> Electrics will all be surface mounted and with a small room, radial circuits and wago connectors,


Nice to see someone doing things without old fashioned ring mains and Wago 222 are really good, used them all the time in both Wago and Wiskra JB's yet some still use chocolate block!. Keep in mind the earthing, and extraneous conductive parts as it does cause issues.


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> I guess I could, but I think OSB even painted just doesn't look nice


Plywood then?


----------



## BucksDad

Jameshow said:


> Plywood then?



Which grade of plywood paints well so you won't see the grain?


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> Which grade of plywood paints well so you won't see the grain?


Birch or hardwood...

Pine / softwood ply you will see the grain.


----------



## Graham F

The list looks pretty good to me. I've done a similar build in Maidenhead last year for my own workshop. You're welcome to pop over and have a look at it incase it helps decide on any details.
I have a great carpenter that works for me at £200/day who lives just outside High Wycombe, who I'm sure could be available if that helps.
PM me if I can assist


----------



## Jones

If you're getting someone else to do the work it's best to chat with them and give them a bit of design input, they'll know what products are available locally and may have a preference on what to use and how to do it. If a product is on a manufacturers website it doesn't necessarily mean it is available in small quantities at a reasonable price, for example I've never seen 90mm pir. On the design front I think your window is too small 15-20% of floor area is normal. Personally I would use knauf wall roll to keep costs down with insulation backed plasterboard if you want extra u value. The external osb is not needed. I would use a 600 mm stud spacing and 1x2 battens ,proper coloured roofing ones. Also I would make the box with two sloping walls and miss out the firing strips. Personally I am used to using fiberglass roofing rather than epdm ,costs are similar. I know that doesn't really answer your question but if you choose a builder you can talk through all the options with them. 10 man days should be enough to finish.


----------



## martin.pearson

I would agree with what has been said about getting the person you use to built this involved with some of the planning & material costs, I don't buy a lot of Construction material but I get a small discount from the supplier I do use & the prices I pay are not as high as the online prices, on a complete shed build I would be able to save a fair bit. If the person you use does this for a living then they will get a much larger discount so that might save some money if they pass some of that on plus as has been said they may know a better choice for materials & how to construct it.
Personnally I would have more in the way of windows, I like natural light but the downside is obviously less wall space. What would the average home office have in the way of windows because if you want to convert it easily to a home office should you move then that might be a consideration.
Plan where your machinery is going to go before you get the electrics done, not just what you have but what you think you might require in the future. Will you need a 16A supply now or maybe in the future? 
There was a post not long ago about putting in an electric supply to a workshop & how best to do it.


----------



## Spectric

martin.pearson said:


> Personnally I would have more in the way of windows, I like natural light but the downside is


Windows allow the unwanted to see in and can be a weak point when it comes to breakins.


----------



## martin.pearson

Spectric said:


> Windows allow the unwanted to see in and can be a weak point when it comes to breakins.



Maybe I don't know for sure, if you have one window as the OP has mentioned surely that is enough to be able to see in lol, I don't have a home workshop so have no personal experience, I rent an industrial unit for what I do & have done for the past 20 odd years, reached a point in my life when I wish I had bought some where years ago rather than renting, it would be close to being mine by now.
Do removable window grates help with security? 
I was just thinking a home office might allow more natural light in but have no evidence to support that lol


----------



## Lazurus

I put a 3m x 1m roof light into my 8m x 6m workshop, lots of light from that and not much of a security risk


----------



## Jameshow

martin.pearson said:


> I would agree with what has been said about getting the person you use to built this involved with some of the planning & material costs, I don't buy a lot of Construction material but I get a small discount from the supplier I do use & the prices I pay are not as high as the online prices, on a complete shed build I would be able to save a fair bit. If the person you use does this for a living then they will get a much larger discount so that might save some money if they pass some of that on plus as has been said they may know a better choice for materials & how to construct it.
> Personnally I would have more in the way of windows, I like natural light but the downside is obviously less wall space. What would the average home office have in the way of windows because if you want to convert it easily to a home office should you move then that might be a consideration.
> Plan where your machinery is going to go before you get the electrics done, not just what you have but what you think you might require in the future. Will you need a 16A supply now or maybe in the future?
> There was a post not long ago about putting in an electric supply to a workshop & how best to do it.


Worth putting a ring main in capable of taking 16amp as well as 13amp even if you don't need it now.


----------



## BucksDad

Thanks for more comments. I will PM you @Graham F!

Based on everyone's feedback, I've now reduced the cost to £8250 so a nice bit of value engineering from everyone to remove £600 

I've achieved that by...

- switching to full sheet plywood for the roof
- swapping over from PIR to Knauf slab for the wall insulation
- 12mm plywood internal wall finish only
- swapping out tyvek to rhinovent
- cheaper EPDM supplier
- swapping to 1x2 roof battens as suggested by @Jones and were actually cheaper

However I did add in costs for soffits, fascias, guttering + water butt which I had missed off

Yes I completely get the point about whoever does the work to take the lead and procure all materials. I'm doing a baseline cost to get the go ahead from my wife (). Seeing as best case would probably be kicking this off in March, any savings they'd get on material will probably be eaten up by inflation on these prices.

Re: Windows - will keep that in mind to go bigger. Plan was to just have a single window over where main bench would be.

16A supply - it's a 3m x 3m shed. Whilst I would love to own 16A machinery, realistically anything 16A is probably going to be too big for the space anyway.

I will now show this to my wife and try not to point out that this doesn't include any budget yet for actual woodworking tools (I don't have any), wood for a bench and some actual hardwood to actually making something 

I will start a separate thread on setting up a workshop from a tools perspective, as this no doubt will be an interesting discussion


----------



## Spectric

martin.pearson said:


> I was just thinking a home office might allow more natural light in but have no evidence to support that lol


A solution would be roof lights, best place to let natural light in but not using cheap perspex.


----------



## martin.pearson

*16A supply - it's a 3m x 3m shed. Whilst I would love to own 16A machinery, realistically anything 16A is probably going to be too big for the space anyway.*

Really depends on what sort of projects you would like to be able to do & what you are going to use machinery for. I wanted a Bandsaw capable of resawing hardwood at a minimum of 16" because of the way I buy my wood. While its footprint is a little larger than smaller bandsaws there isn't a huge difference. I am sure there was a post not to long ago about a benchtop planer/thicknesser that was 16 amp so not all 16 A machinery is big lol


----------



## Jameshow

Spectric said:


> Windows allow the unwanted to see in and can be a weak point when it comes to breakins.


You could have a blind on the inside?


----------



## 2sheds

Why not use SIPs for the walls, roof and floor- you'll have the shell erected in a day for that size. I've used them several times and they are brilliant, OSB and insulation all in one. Just wrap the outside in housewrap (the supplier/erector may do that for you), batten both sides and then clad the outside and plasterboard the inside. EDPM on the roof and you're done. Save a fortune on time-based costs like a carpenter, and makes buying everything much easier. 

And I'd also use adjustable Quickjacks - Shed Base Kits - Plastic Shed Bases | Foundation Solutions - for the foundation, no digging, quick and easy to put in and cheaper and much better for the environment than concrete. Then put some C24 treated structural beams on the jacks, and build the floor/walls/roof from that. You'd have the whole thing done in a few days. I used the Quickjacks on a self-assembly 3m x 4m shed last year and they are excellent. You can also use concrete Jack Pads but I think the Quickjacks are just as good, if not better.


----------



## Spectric

Jameshow said:


> You could have a blind on the inside?


or security grills on the outside. Has anyone thought about the crime rate in the Chilterns, it may be an ok place with a low number of scumbags.


----------



## BucksDad

2sheds said:


> Why not use SIPs for the walls, roof and floor- you'll have the shell erected in a day for that size. I've used them several times and they are brilliant, OSB and insulation all in one. Just wrap the outside in housewrap (the supplier/erector may do that for you), batten both sides and then clad the outside and plasterboard the inside. EDPM on the roof and you're done. Save a fortune on time-based costs like a carpenter, and makes buying everything much easier.
> 
> And I'd also use adjustable Quickjacks - Shed Base Kits - Plastic Shed Bases | Foundation Solutions - for the foundation, no digging, quick and easy to put in and cheaper and much better for the environment than concrete. Then put some C24 treated structural beams on the jacks, and build the floor/walls/roof from that. You'd have the whole thing done in a few days. I used the Quickjacks on a self-assembly 3m x 4m shed last year and they are excellent. You can also use concrete Jack Pads but I think the Quickjacks are just as good, if not better.



Thanks for the comments @2sheds and I will certainly get some prices on those this week. Anyone you'd recommend?

Not using a concrete base means you gain 3 problems
- A void you have to keep vermin proof
- Lose roof height (which at max 2.5m is almost untenable)
- Have a massive step over into the workshop

As a result really not keen on the other options but feel free to change my mind


----------



## Spectric

BucksDad said:


> Not using a concrete base means you gain 3 problems


But you will also gain warmth by having the floor off the ground and not concrete. If you ever watch people building cabins in Canada or Alaska they leave a void underneath that then becomes storage but you don't want it that high up!

My large shed sits on nine concrete plinths rather than a single slab, and then a wooden frame sits on these which is above ground level. As for that step over, use a ramp if needed.


----------



## 2sheds

I've used SuperSIPs before on a 47.5m2 studio. 10 years ago cost including erection and delivery was £12k. You can get a kit of SIPs from them, or you can buy panels and glue and cut them yourselves. I prefer to buy kits, you get everything you need for the shell and they'll often erect for a reasonable fee. If you buy panels you need to cut out for windows and doors. This 3.6 x 3 studio kit from SuperSIPs is ~£2700 + VAT, delivery and erection. This includes walls, roof and floor. You can get a custom quote if you want e.g. different door and window positions.
SIPs Studio Kits Collections • SuperSips - SIP Panels and Garden Studios 

Personally, I hate concrete and only use it if nothing else will do. The planning regs are a bit of an issue - again personally I just ignored them (!!) but that's not something many people would be prepared to do. On my current 3m x 4m shed I put some 200mm steel rodent mesh all around the perimeter to control unwanted visitors. And yes there is a bit of a step into the shed but I will be building a ramp once I've finished insulating the inside.

Best of luck with the project.


----------



## Molynoox

2sheds said:


> Why not use SIPs for the walls, roof and floor- you'll have the shell erected in a day for that size. I've used them several times and they are brilliant, OSB and insulation all in one. Just wrap the outside in housewrap (the supplier/erector may do that for you), batten both sides and then clad the outside and plasterboard the inside. EDPM on the roof and you're done. Save a fortune on time-based costs like a carpenter, and makes buying everything much easier.
> 
> And I'd also use adjustable Quickjacks - Shed Base Kits - Plastic Shed Bases | Foundation Solutions - for the foundation, no digging, quick and easy to put in and cheaper and much better for the environment than concrete. Then put some C24 treated structural beams on the jacks, and build the floor/walls/roof from that. You'd have the whole thing done in a few days. I used the Quickjacks on a self-assembly 3m x 4m shed last year and they are excellent. You can also use concrete Jack Pads but I think the Quickjacks are just as good, if not better.



quickjacks look interesting, not seen those before.
with SIPS, are they strong enough for say a 3m wide set of bifolds? I assume the headers are just timber?

Martin


----------



## Molynoox

another option on your foundations are groundscrews. I used these on my workshop build and they were great. I set a nominal 50mm ventilation gap so the timber floating / suspended base sits 50mm off the ground which I made up with composite decking outside. Typically your ground will often have a slight slope anyway so usually you have to deal with some sort of a gap/step up, so I just designed in the decking to cope with that. I also excavated down a bit on one side to reduce the step up.

Martin


----------



## 2sheds

SIPs are very strong. I had a 6m span internally on my old studio, with a big Glulam beam holding the roof up. Most of the garden rooms advertised are SIPs built, and many of those feature bifolds. Yes the header would be timber or Glulam depending on the strength needed. SIPs are also used a lot in Scotland, Canada and US for large houses. SIPs are generally certified for up to four storeys.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## Molynoox

cheers Steve, the SIPS look cool, and I ummed and ahhhd about using them on my 9x4m build recently, but in the end I wanted flexibility to make last minute design changes so went traditional route
I am considering them for future builds though, interesting to get your thoughts
they could use RHS or flitch beam too I suppose, doesnt have to be glulam does it?

Martin


----------



## Jones

Bifolds can be top hung or bottom rolling so don't necessarily need a particularly strong beam over.There are various arguments for which is best, personally I don't see much difference.


----------



## Molynoox

Jones said:


> Bifolds can be top hung or bottom rolling so don't necessarily need a particularly strong beam over.There are various arguments for which is best, personally I don't see much difference.


I think I would respectfully disagree with all of that  
Martin


----------



## BucksDad

I currently am waiting on a quote for the SIPs... will update the costings when I get it as this does seem to be a quicker / more cost effective way to go


----------



## 2sheds

Molynoox said:


> cheers Steve, the SIPS look cool, and I ummed and ahhhd about using them on my 9x4m build recently, but in the end I wanted flexibility to make last minute design changes so went traditional route
> I am considering them for future builds though, interesting to get your thoughts
> they could use RHS or flitch beam too I suppose, doesnt have to be glulam does it?
> 
> Martin



AFAIK most kit suppliers use either structural timber or glulam, but you can use anything that is strong enough, although of course if you are building something that comes under building control (32m2 or more I think) then you'll need structural engineering calcs for BC. 

SIPs allow relatively thin walls compared to a standard e.g. brick/cavity/block wall, so for the same external floor area you get more internal space. Or, you go for similar wall thickness and get lots more insulation, and lower heating bills. But like for like thermally, you'll need a thinner beam to support openings, which might push you towards a glulam, fitch or steel.


----------



## Molynoox

that's a good point about the wall thickness driving potentially thinner beams
I think when I looked at Glulams alongside the usual suspects I didn't really consider them very seriously because they didn't seem to come in suitable sizes for sheds / garden rooms. They seemed to start at about 220mm depth or so which was a bit too thick for a permitted development build and associated 2.5m height restriction
I probably didn't look hard enough as I am sure you can get them in smaller sizes
the other constraint is the weight of them - with the other beam options you can assemble them in situ if required meaning you can lift each component into place individually, instead of all in one go
I'm going to have another look at these though, like I say I think I gave up too early. I probably did the same with SIPS in reality....  
Martin


----------



## BucksDad

Well I think the suggestion of SIPs was a good idea. It took a little back and forth with the company to explain the brick plinth to them but once that clicked, I've now got the price back and it's £3k for a 3.6 x 3.2m (external) SIPs kit which includes delivery + the outside already wrapped with breather membrane and cladding battens on a 5 week lead time. I reckon I can rope in my neighbour to assist me with getting the SIPs panels up and it does look quite straight forward.

I think can reduce the contingency to 7.5% as there will be far fewer fixings required and more fixed costs. Obviously the big saving is the cost of someone doing it. I've currently left in £250 for one day for a carpenter to hang the door and put in the lock etc. I've not that done before and definitely don't want to screw it up. 

Anyway, that comes to a grand total of £7120 which compared to the £9k at the top of this thread is a nice saving. I could probably save a few hundred on cladding but probably not worth it.

Now I just need the landscaper to confirm when he's going to start on the garden and then I can get the SIPs ordered.

Will post an update when there's something to show!


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> Well I think the suggestion of SIPs was a good idea. It took a little back and forth with the company to explain the brick plinth to them but once that clicked, I've now got the price back and it's £3k for a 3.6 x 3.2m (external) SIPs kit which includes delivery + the outside already wrapped with breather membrane and cladding battens on a 5 week lead time. I reckon I can rope in my neighbour to assist me with getting the SIPs panels up and it does look quite straight forward.
> 
> I think can reduce the contingency to 7.5% as there will be far fewer fixings required and more fixed costs. Obviously the big saving is the cost of someone doing it. I've currently left in £250 for one day for a carpenter to hang the door and put in the lock etc. I've not that done before and definitely don't want to screw it up.
> 
> Anyway, that comes to a grand total of £7120 which compared to the £9k at the top of this thread is a nice saving. I could probably save a few hundred on cladding but probably not worth it.
> 
> Now I just need the landscaper to confirm when he's going to start on the garden and then I can get the SIPs ordered.
> 
> Will post an update when there's something to show!


Whose putting the cladding on? 
Put aside another day for the chippie to do that too???


----------



## Terry - Somerset

I can understand the temptation to design and build your own, but you then have all the hassle and risk of making it work.

Before you hit the go button you may like to look at buying a complete insulated building (eg: home office) which could be quickly installed on a prepared base.

Cost may be little different to the diy approach. If there are problems (water ingress etc) you have someone to blame and (probably) a guarantee. They will buy materials in bulk, have a proven (one hopes) detailed design and construction process, ability to install and sign of electrics etc..


----------



## 2sheds

BucksDad said:


> Well I think the suggestion of SIPs was a good idea. It took a little back and forth with the company to explain the brick plinth to them but once that clicked, I've now got the price back and it's £3k for a 3.6 x 3.2m (external) SIPs kit which includes delivery + the outside already wrapped with breather membrane and cladding battens on a 5 week lead time. I reckon I can rope in my neighbour to assist me with getting the SIPs panels up and it does look quite straight forward.
> 
> I think can reduce the contingency to 7.5% as there will be far fewer fixings required and more fixed costs. Obviously the big saving is the cost of someone doing it. I've currently left in £250 for one day for a carpenter to hang the door and put in the lock etc. I've not that done before and definitely don't want to screw it up.
> 
> Anyway, that comes to a grand total of £7120 which compared to the £9k at the top of this thread is a nice saving. I could probably save a few hundred on cladding but probably not worth it.
> 
> Now I just need the landscaper to confirm when he's going to start on the garden and then I can get the SIPs ordered.
> 
> Will post an update when there's something to show!



That's not a bad price at all considering the increased cost of timber and insulation, especially around this area where demand hugely exceeds supply. Regarding DIY v full home office, I found the price of the all-inclusive route was very expensive compared to DIY (roughly 2.5-3x) considering that most of the hard stuff has already been done. Whilst I didn't build my SIPs studio, the erectors just used expanding foam for any gaps or cuts (there shouldn't be many but...) and lots of nails to assemble. Hire/buy a Paslode for this and just take your time. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how straightforward it is.

Looking forward to the photos. I'll dig out some of mine when I get a minute and post them.


----------



## BucksDad

Jameshow said:


> Whose putting the cladding on?
> Put aside another day for the chippie to do that too???



I can do the cladding. If building a timber frame building from scratch, that's a lot of work. Should be able to get the panels together in one day... another day for cladding is not so bad.



Terry - Somerset said:


> I can understand the temptation to design and build your own, but you then have all the hassle and risk of making it work.
> 
> Before you hit the go button you may like to look at buying a complete insulated building (eg: home office) which could be quickly installed on a prepared base.
> 
> Cost may be little different to the diy approach. If there are problems (water ingress etc) you have someone to blame and (probably) a guarantee. They will buy materials in bulk, have a proven (one hopes) detailed design and construction process, ability to install and sign of electrics etc..



Far too expensive to do that and I can't see the value they add. I have effectively got someone to design it... gave them the dimensions and they've done the drawing and sent over a Sketchup 3D model which seems fine. A SIPS panel design & construction is about as simple as you can get.


----------



## Molynoox

In the design you had done in SketchUp is that SIPS based? I would be interested to see it if you could post a picture? I'm interested in the roof mainly, I'm curios how they span across 3 or 4 metres, or more, with SIPS.
Martin


----------



## BucksDad

Molynoox said:


> In the design you had done in SketchUp is that SIPS based? I would be interested to see it if you could post a picture? I'm interested in the roof mainly, I'm curios how they span across 3 or 4 metres, or more, with SIPS.
> Martin



They didn't include a detailed diagram but here is a link to a PDF from elsewhere which has span tables and how they're done

SBS design guide - proof 20 (sipbuildingsystems.co.uk) 

For garden buildings it seems to be timber ring beam and 400-450mm wide panels with timber joists


----------



## Spectric

Molynoox said:


> I'm curios how they span across 3 or 4 metres, or more, with SIPS.


Look at the design of a trussed roof, these can span the outer walls of a building with no interior load bearing walls and do 10 metres.


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> They didn't include a detailed diagram but here is a link to a PDF from elsewhere which has span tables and how they're done
> 
> SBS design guide - proof 20 (sipbuildingsystems.co.uk)
> 
> For garden buildings it seems to be timber ring beam and 400-450mm wide panels with timber joists


Nice to read some design tables. 

The difference of reinforced to unreinforced isn't much at all. 3.6m is quite a span for 150mm 

What loading did you specify?


----------



## Molynoox

Spectric said:


> Look at the design of a trussed roof, these can span the outer walls of a building with no interior load bearing walls and do 10 metres.



And how is that relevant? Totally different materials and design. Flat roof being the key difference.


----------



## Molynoox

BucksDad said:


> They didn't include a detailed diagram but here is a link to a PDF from elsewhere which has span tables and how they're done
> 
> SBS design guide - proof 20 (sipbuildingsystems.co.uk)
> 
> For garden buildings it seems to be timber ring beam and 400-450mm wide panels with timber joists


Cheers
That was an interesting read, the span tables are pretty impressive, I didn't realise they were that strong. I know that the kingspan roof panels you can buy are similarly strong and they are quite similar to SIPS except they have a metal skin. So I shouldn't be all that surprised I suppose.
4 or 5 metres is adequate for most flat roof garden buildings.
Martin


----------



## Spectric

Molynoox said:


> Flat roof being the key difference.


In my opinion something to be avoided, at least put some slope it one way and it will last a lot longer.


----------



## Molynoox

Spectric said:


> In my opinion something to be avoided, at least put some slope it one way and it will last a lot longer.


Agreed. Typically 1 in 40 is used for detached buildings like this, in reality flat roof is shorthand for 'slightly sloped' - that's what I meant anyway, and I know that's misleading hence the clarification


----------



## BucksDad

Yes I think my design has a 1:60 slope. Looking at those span tables with 150mm roof and the suggested typical loadings - 0.5 DL, 0.6LL that puts the span at 4.25m so as I have a span of 3m that should be plenty.

Interestingly I checked my quote again and they specified 100mm panels for the roof - I've gone back to them and queried it as that just doesn't seem right - no reply as yet. In the meantime I've asked for a quote from supersips.uk.com who publish all the accreditation. 

Interestingly they also publish the insulation values for their roof and condensation analysis. I've read up and a SIPS roof is a cold roof, so typically with a house, should be ventilated. Garden rooms obviously etc. they just slap the EPDM on the OSB.

"Interstitial condensation occurs but all the condensate is predicted to evaporate in the summer months" - sounds like a nice little get out clause there 

Having thought some more, I'm considering the need for a single room MHVR anyway because a SIPS box does produce a very air tight design


----------



## Inspector

SIP panels can't be looked at in the same way as a traditional framed assembly. The skins and foam act as one much like honeycomb panels in aircraft do. The sum of the parts are stronger than the individual ones are. Example. A camping cooler holding your beer and burgers has a lid of flimsy plastic and foam that individually would collapse if you sat on them but because the skins are bonded to the foam core you can easily sit on them and even do a little dance on them when you've finished the beer. That is why SIP built structures are engineered to fit the situation. If they say the 100mm panel is strong enough for the roof they will be. 

Pete


----------



## Jones

Flat roofs used to have very low slopes 1 in 80 etc as this allowed protective gravel to be laid over felted roofs,( and dirt, moss etc to accumulate). The fashion nowadays is to have a steeper slope to drain faster and wash off debris like 1 in 40 ( 25 mm per metre). The dead load is the weight of the structure in this case the roof, the live load is any additional load that may be added, such as someone on the roof to repair it or more importantly snow. In building regs the standards are snow load of 0.75 throughout most of the UK and 1 kn/m2 in the high snowy bits. Engineers can argue for a lower value so 0.6 may be ok for you but worth checking how they choose that value.


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> Yes I think my design has a 1:60 slope. Looking at those span tables with 150mm roof and the suggested typical loadings - 0.5 DL, 0.6LL that puts the span at 4.25m so as I have a span of 3m that should be plenty.
> 
> Interestingly I checked my quote again and they specified 100mm panels for the roof - I've gone back to them and queried it as that just doesn't seem right - no reply as yet. In the meantime I've asked for a quote from supersips.uk.com who publish all the accreditation.
> 
> Interestingly they also publish the insulation values for their roof and condensation analysis. I've read up and a SIPS roof is a cold roof, so typically with a house, should be ventilated. Garden rooms obviously etc. they just slap the EPDM on the OSB.
> 
> "Interstitial condensation occurs but all the condensate is predicted to evaporate in the summer months" - sounds like a nice little get out clause there
> 
> Having thought some more, I'm considering the need for a single room MHVR anyway because a SIPS box does produce a very air tight design


How about a simple double tube as found on a combi boiler balanced flu where the new air flows dow the one tube and the waste air out the inner tube? A swiveling cowl on the top would make it work better as would some alu electronic heat sinks bolted though the inner tube to increase thermal conductivity....?


----------



## Molynoox

BucksDad said:


> Yes I think my design has a 1:60 slope. Looking at those span tables with 150mm roof and the suggested typical loadings - 0.5 DL, 0.6LL that puts the span at 4.25m so as I have a span of 3m that should be plenty.
> 
> Interestingly I checked my quote again and they specified 100mm panels for the roof - I've gone back to them and queried it as that just doesn't seem right - no reply as yet. In the meantime I've asked for a quote from supersips.uk.com who publish all the accreditation.
> 
> Interestingly they also publish the insulation values for their roof and condensation analysis. I've read up and a SIPS roof is a cold roof, so typically with a house, should be ventilated. Garden rooms obviously etc. they just slap the EPDM on the OSB.
> 
> "Interstitial condensation occurs but all the condensate is predicted to evaporate in the summer months" - sounds like a nice little get out clause there
> 
> Having thought some more, I'm considering the need for a single room MHVR anyway because a SIPS box does produce a very air tight design


that's a very interesting quote you found about the interstitial condensation - I had been thinking about that and I wondered if the OSB bonded to the foam core would provide a suitable barrier, when combined with a suitable vapour barrier. I also wondered if the SIPS would be considered to be a warm roof but you also mentioned earlier it is considered as a cold roof. I suppose the difference is that in a warm roof the insulation is continuous and in the SIPS.... do you have timber supports between panels? i know very little about SIPS but I thought I had seen pictures of SIPS where the OSB just interlocks with insulation panels butted up against one another which would mean that the insulation was continuous without any thermal bridging from studs. Or is it cold roof because the insulation doesn't sit outside of the roof structure, maybe its that simple. I'm probably overthinking it
Martin


----------



## BucksDad

Inspector said:


> SIP panels can't be looked at in the same way as a traditional framed assembly. The skins and foam act as one much like honeycomb panels in aircraft do. The sum of the parts are stronger than the individual ones are. Example. A camping cooler holding your beer and burgers has a lid of flimsy plastic and foam that individually would collapse if you sat on them but because the skins are bonded to the foam core you can easily sit on them and even do a little dance on them when you've finished the beer. That is why SIP built structures are engineered to fit the situation. If they say the 100mm panel is strong enough for the roof they will be.
> 
> Pete



I think you place too much trust in our country Pete. As I can build this under permitted development rights without any need to inform anyone what I'm doing, there's no need for me to certify what I'm doing. I've noticed the original company I got the quote with state their SIPs are for workshops, garden rooms etc. only. At the end of the day, a SIP panel is just some insulation glued between some OSB - anyone could make one.

I seriously doubt that SIPs panels can span 3m with 75mm / 3" rafters and not suffer from deflection long term. The fact no other SIP manufacturer has published a span table with anything less than 150mm for the roof tells me all I need to know I think


----------



## Glitch

Molynoox said:


> Or is it cold roof because the insulation doesn't sit outside of the roof structure, maybe its that simple.



AIUI it is that simple. Insulation on the inside of the OSB makes it a cold roof. It'll need suitable ventilation.

I made a mistake with my (over-engineered) shed and put OSB on both sides of the insulated studwork. I'd copied a couple of builds I'd followed on YouTube.
That was before I discovered Mike G's shed build guide.

However, Mike uses OSB as a vapour barrier in his design. OSB is not a proper vapour barrier. It's not impermeable but in his design there is nowhere for the vapour to condense, which is good. I installed a vapour barrier (plastic sheeting) on the inside of the stud work with OSB over it. Bit of a minefield but I doubt the shed is going to have hot sweaty, vapour breathing people in it much.


----------



## Glitch

Another thing to bear in mind is sheet materials for some bizarre reason are 8' x 4' (2440mm x 1220mm) so make sure you do the studwork at 16" or 24" on centre, or you'll find you'll need to cut every board. Check the sizes carefully because some stuff, comes only in metric! I think I ordered some 9mm boards that only came in 2400mm x 1200mm.


----------



## Molynoox

Jones said:


> Flat roofs used to have very low slopes 1 in 80 etc as this allowed protective gravel to be laid over felted roofs,( and dirt, moss etc to accumulate). The fashion nowadays is to have a steeper slope to drain faster and wash off debris like 1 in 40 ( 25 mm per metre). The dead load is the weight of the structure in this case the roof, the live load is any additional load that may be added, such as someone on the roof to repair it or more importantly snow. In building regs the standards are snow load of 0.75 throughout most of the UK and 1 kn/m2 in the high snowy bits. Engineers can argue for a lower value so 0.6 may be ok for you but worth checking how they choose that value.



are you taking that 0.75 value from Part A?


----------



## Dave Moore

Hi,
If you look on YouTube for Steve @Londonflatroofing he has some very good videos on flat roofing including warm and cold roofs. I emailed him last Monday and within half an hour he had sent me a video with advice on my build.
Regards,
Dave


----------



## Molynoox

Yeah Steve is awesome.


----------



## stuart.grimshaw

Have you got a plan of your workshop, either a floorplan or external view?


----------



## BucksDad

It's a 3.6m x 3.2m box with a 10cm roof overhang...


----------



## SamG340

That's so expensive ! Built my shed a year back, 12' X 8' , 4x2 frame work with 4 foot spacing, 6x1 gravel boards overlap cladding, 11mm OBS roof & felt . Got the timber cheap from a dodgy wood man , less than £500 total, pretty happy with it


----------



## Chunkytfg

I've got to say I think youre spending alot of money on that shed considering the size!

I built mine at the back end of last year and I reckon I got change from about 5k. its 4.4m x 2.9m

3x2 studwork frame on a 4'' reinforced concrete base sitting on 3 rows of engineering bricks.
GRP roof.
Siberian Larch cladding on 2 sides with Metal box section sheets on the other.
Insulated internally with 18mm ply lined walls.

No power into it yet but its right next to a Garage with a 10mm2 SWA cable feed to its own Consumer unit so I'll just run in another circuit to it once the weather perks up a bit.


----------



## SamG340

Chunkytfg said:


> I've got to say I think youre spending alot of money on that shed considering the size!
> 
> I built mine at the back end of last year and I reckon I got change from about 5k. its 4.4m x 2.9m
> 
> 3x2 studwork frame on a 4'' reinforced concrete base sitting on 3 rows of engineering bricks.
> GRP roof.
> Siberian Larch cladding on 2 sides with Metal box section sheets on the other.
> Insulated internally with 18mm ply lined walls.
> 
> No power into it yet but its right next to a Garage with a 10mm2 SWA cable feed to its own Consumer unit so I'll just run in another circuit to it once the weather perks up a bit.
> 
> View attachment 128974



Are you in Australia mate ?


----------



## Chunkytfg

SamG340 said:


> Are you in Australia mate ?


Haha Nope. One of the joys of using Apple products! The pictures just dont end up the right way up when you upload them to forums. Really annoying!


----------



## SamG340

Chunkytfg said:


> Haha Nope. One of the joys of using Apple products! The pictures just dont end up the right way up when you upload them to forums. Really annoying!



 top notch shed btw


----------



## Chunkytfg

SamG340 said:


> top notch she's btw


Thanks

Also for the record if you buy your Cladding from UK Timber LTD like I did you end up with way more than you plan on! I measured the size I needed, ordered it plus 10% and which worked out at about 20m2 and then ended up barely using half of it! 
I'll admit that I spaced the overlaps a little less than recommended but only by 5mm on each edge so that would only account for maybe a couple of extra boards used. All the scrap bits got used up above the door frame and for the soffits. I think by the time I was done I had barely 3/4 of a rubble sack full of offcuts

I'm going to use the remainder for some matching garage doors and probably a log store.


----------



## BucksDad

Nice shed @Chunkytfg 

You and @SamG340 have both commented on the cost. Well you can see the BOM at the top of the list... feel free to point out where it can be cheaper if you think the price is too high


----------



## RobinBHM

Molynoox said:


> are you taking that 0.75 value from Part A?


Im not sure its in part A, but every roof design I had calcs done the SE always used 0.75/sqm for snow load -thats a 1 metre depth of snow, which I guess somebody has calculated is 75kg.


----------



## Chunkytfg

Okay looking back I missed the bit about you paying labour costs so when you compare them there isnt a huge difference between mine and yours.

Some obvious things that jump out at me though. that haven't been mentioned I dont think.

4x2 frame? Why not 3x2? Saves money and gains you space albeit only 50mm.

6x2 roof joists seems overkill? Would smaller centres and 4x2's work out cheaper?

90mm PIR insulation is more than you'd get in a house for the wall's plus youd need an air gap anyway so bring that down to 50mm and you need approx 13 sheets of it at around £30 a sheet halves your insulation cost.

Firing Strips. on a 3m span youve got roughly a 5cm drop on the roof. Just put a spare bit of 3x2 ontop of the framing on one edge and stick the rafters on that. £90 less.

Your IRO cladding is £65 a square metre! Really? Seems like a lot for not much! 

Box profile cladding also seems high. Rhino cladding is £25 for a 2.5m length thats 1m wide. you only need 6.

And lastly. 10 days for a chippy to make it? Took me a week to build mine not including the Concrete base and brickwork but I built the doors from scratch(they're rubbish and I have to remake them but still!)


----------



## SamG340

Hi @BucksDad Ive had a good read through your post, I see you're a man that likes things done properly ! 

Here's just a few ideas that could help cut the costs ( I am a bit of a penny pincher lol ) 

So first off you could go for 3x2 frame work save a lot of money there, plenty strong enough for a shed in my opinion

11mm OSB roof sheets are good enough especially with your joists being so close together, speaking of joists I bet 4x2s spaced that close would just about do it, especially if your roofs not too heavy (11mm osb ?? )

£240 on vinyl floor tiles is extortionate ! You could find off cuts or second hand rolls of vinyl. I picked up a roll of good thick vinyl 4.8m X 3.6m for they bought but never put down £20 off Facebook market place

Insulation from Wickes ( or any other builders merchants ) is very expensive. There's a fella near me that does cheap kingspan seconds, not perfect looking but if you're sandwiching it into a wall who cares ? You could see if there's someone local to you

Consider doing some of it yourself , perhaps lining / insulating the inside ? I know not everyones got the time / energy / skill but could save a few pennys ? If you need help you could get a labourer in £9 a hour to do all the heavy lifting

At the end of the day, you're only building a shed it's not a house lol !


----------



## SamG340

Also often double glazing firms give away free second hand windows they've taken out could be worth giving a few local firms a bell ?


----------



## BucksDad

Thanks for the comments guys. To address the points

- 3x2 is a minimal saving in cost and won't save me any space as I've got a 100mm brick plinth
- Joist size - every published span table shows there isn't anything less than a 6" joist for a 3m span
- 11mm OSB - noted for that on the roof
- Vinyl floor tiles - The ones I've quoted are heavy duty, 7mm thick hence the price
- Firring strips - noted. As per discussion, would switch to raked walls
- Yes the IRO cladding is expensive but we have a small garden and it needs to look nice. I do like the board on board style that Chunky has done so I might consider that and can paint it
- Box profile - so yes, £150 for the sheets. Add in delivery, fixings and trims etc and that's why I got to £200
- Second hand window - yes, plenty going free but in white. Will either by Anthracite or black.

Yes you'd hope a carpenter / joiner could do it in a week so it might be a big allowance - that's why on this thread someone also mentioned using SIPs which I'm waiting on a quote back from.

In the meantime I'll contact a couple of carpenters and see what price they give. 

One nice saving I've got is I do have a friend who is an electrician. The workshop came up in conversation and he's offered to do the electrics for me if I run the cable in so that will mean electrics will only be materials.


----------



## Inspector

Chunkytfg said:


> Haha Nope. One of the joys of using Apple products! The pictures just dont end up the right way up when you upload them to forums. Really annoying!



Not to hijack the thread but if you edit the picture either on your phone or your laptop/desktop by cropping it slightly or rotating it 90º and then all the way around and then saving the changes it will post properly when you upload to the forum. Beats having to nail everything to the floor so it doesn't fall to the ceiling.  

Pete


----------



## Chunkytfg

Ooh so it does!! Thank you!


----------



## SamG340

Chunkytfg said:


> Ooh so it does!! Thank you!
> 
> View attachment 129066



I like the cladding is it a big standards planks over lapped ?


----------



## Chunkytfg

SamG340 said:


> I like the cladding is it a big standards planks over lapped ?


140mm wide boards on first with 70mm wide boards on top. 20mm thick.

This shows it a bit better. All coated on all sides before installation with Osmo Poly X Larch colour which greys it ever so slightly


----------



## SamG340

Chunkytfg said:


> 140mm wide boards on first with 70mm wide boards on top. 20mm thick.
> 
> This shows it a bit better. All coated on all sides before installation with Osmo Poly X Larch colour which greys it ever so slightly
> 
> View attachment 129067



Very nice that's how they use to do barns back in the day

I got a load of 6x1 gravel boards cheap , ended up lapping them like feather boards . Not the best looking but it sheds water well


----------



## stuart.grimshaw

Chunkytfg said:


> View attachment 129067



How do you clad down that right hand side where it's so close to the fence?


----------



## BucksDad

stuart.grimshaw said:


> How do you clad down that right hand side where it's so close to the fence?



He used metal box cladding for that he said. I'm going to guess he either attached it to the frame before he put it up and/or he's got panelled fencing. Removed the panels to give a little bit more access


----------



## Chunkytfg

BucksDad said:


> He used metal box cladding for that he said. I'm going to guess he either attached it to the frame before he put it up and/or he's got panelled fencing. Removed the panels to give a little bit more access


Correct in the first option. Fully made the wall panels on the ground and just stood them both up. the 4.5m one was pretty heavy by myself!! 

Anyway enough about my shed this is about yours. Apologies for the thread hijack.


----------



## BucksDad

No need to apologise. That's the fun of these threads and the forum. Wouldn't have seriously thought about board-on-board without your contribution


----------



## Chunkytfg

BucksDad said:


> No need to apologise. That's the fun of these threads and the forum. Wouldn't have seriously thought about board-on-board without your contribution



Cool. 

I knew I always wanted the BoB cladding but wanted Western red Cider originally. Only trouble was I built the shed at the absolute peak of timber prices and it was over £100 a metre for the stuff! I didnt have a cat in hells chance of getting £2500 of cladding past the Girlfriend so opted for the Larch instead. 

Ultimately the plan is to have a small 3mx3m patio infront of the shed with a pergola coming off it which should make it slightly less imposing on the garden overall as the flat roof along with no windows really makes it seem alot bigger than it is!


----------



## SamG340




----------



## Molynoox

stuart.grimshaw said:


> How do you clad down that right hand side where it's so close to the fence?


Looks like the fence panel will slide out.


----------



## BucksDad

Groundworks have started!







Well, as you can see, the garden is getting some major landscaping and being levelled. What a boon to include the groundworks for the workshop base as part of that. You can see the concrete base in the corner - that was hand mixed by the guys. I am SO glad I didn't try to do it myself - would have taken so long!

The slab will now cure over the weekend and the brick plinth will be laid next week


----------



## Yojevol

@BucksDad

You can do that yourself. Use the EDIT and SAVE functions at the bottom of your post.
Brian


----------



## BucksDad

Yojevol said:


> @BucksDad
> 
> You can do that yourself. Use the EDIT and SAVE functions at the bottom of your post.
> Brian



Frustratingly, only for posts within the last 30 days. The first post was created in January, so no, I can't


----------



## Molynoox

Is back left a greenhouse?


----------



## BucksDad

Molynoox said:


> Is back left a greenhouse?



Nope, in-ground trampoline for the kids


----------



## Molynoox

Ooo, nice! I wanted to do it that way but too much work for our size of trampoline.


----------



## BucksDad

Molynoox said:


> Ooo, nice! I wanted to do it that way but too much work for our size of trampoline.



Yes again, so thankful I didn't have to hand dig that out. It's a 75cm deep hole in the middle!


----------



## Yojevol

BucksDad said:


> Frustratingly, only for posts within the last 30 days. The first post was created in January, so no, I can't


That's interesting, it must be a recent rule change. My clock thread was started life on 10/7/19 and the title was amended to include 'maintenance' 14 months later.
Perhaps @MikeK could comment.
Brian


----------



## BucksDad

Yojevol said:


> That's interesting, it must be a recent rule change. My clock thread was started life on 10/7/19 and the title was amended to include 'maintenance' 14 months later.
> Perhaps @MikeK could comment.
> Brian



It's a specific benefit for UKW Supporters that's listed - up-to 30 days editing. I believe non-supporters get 1 day or something.


----------



## MikeK

Yojevol said:


> That's interesting, it must be a recent rule change. My clock thread was started life on 10/7/19 and the title was amended to include 'maintenance' 14 months later.
> Perhaps @MikeK could comment.
> Brian



Threads in the Project forum have a two-year edit window for registered users. The understanding is content in that forum will be less likely to abuse and projects could take a while to complete. All other areas are limited as BucksDad described.


----------



## BucksDad

Sigh... well a reminder that when you're asking someone else to do something, check they do exactly what you've asked them to!

I did mention putting a DPM under the slab, but I've now discovered they didn't do that and I also should have specified to float the concrete to a nice finish so it's a little bit rough.. however it does look reasonably level

So anyway, I'll have to put some self-levelling compound down and then a DPM before I put the floor down - not as I would have wanted it but then it is only a workshop!


----------



## Inspector

You don't need to use levelling compound. Place the floor "joists" on the concrete and use pairs of wedges to level them. Here I would get a bundle of cedar shingles but the plastic ones used for shimming doors and windows would work if not a touch more expensive. You could cut your own too if you like.

Pete


----------



## BucksDad

I won't be having joists though because of height restrictions, so it was going to be concrete floor + vinyl flooring. Now I think I will do concrete floor, DPM, egger protect 22m chipboard so I want the levelling compound so it's nice and flat for the chipboard


----------



## SamG340

BucksDad said:


> Sigh... well a reminder that when you're asking someone else to do something, check they do exactly what you've asked them to!
> 
> I did mention putting a DPM under the slab, but I've now discovered they didn't do that and I also should have specified to float the concrete to a nice finish so it's a little bit rough.. however it does look reasonably level
> 
> So anyway, I'll have to put some self-levelling compound down and then a DPM before I put the floor down - not as I would have wanted it but then it is only a workshop!



Sounds like a bit of a cowboy if you ask me ! It's not your fault, if he did shoddy job it's his responsibility to make it right


----------



## Jameshow

BucksDad said:


> I won't be having joists though because of height restrictions, so it was going to be concrete floor + vinyl flooring. Now I think I will do concrete floor, DPM, egger protect 22m chipboard so I want the levelling compound so it's nice and flat for the chipboard


Why not put an inch of polystyrene in there it won't take away much headroom but it will warm up the space no end. Nothing worse than cold feet.


----------



## BucksDad

Well after all the discussion about lack of projects/WIPs, I thought I had best start updating this thread again.
Note these photos start from back in June (I told my wife I would be finished by the end of the summer, then it was end of September, then end of October, then Christmas.. I am guessing right now it is end of January  )
I am in no way experienced (as some of the following updates will show!) at building things, I've never done anything like this before and for sure, plenty of mistakes along the way - this is hopefully to encourage others that you can do it too  There is nothing particularly novel or exciting in the build overall but I'll point out a few things along the way


----------



## BucksDad

Well here we are in June with the garden landscaped and the timber stacked at the bottom of the garden. I decided to do my frame in 3x2 for a number of reasons


I'd be working alone for the most part and moving 3x2 walls would be easier than 4x2
The bricks are 100mm wide and I couldn't really afford a massive overhang from the cladding which would result with 4 x 2
I'd read online that plenty of people thought 3x2 was strong enough for a workshop compared to 4x2 so I went for it!






The brick walls weren't entirely square so I used the old 3/4/5 to get my bottom plate as square as I could. I used some strapping to tie the plate into the floor.






I had some help with the marking out for some of the walls






I think I managed to get that wall up by myself.

This part went OK except my mitre saw does not cut fully square. I think it is off by 0.5-1 degree and I've not managed to fix that yet


----------



## BucksDad

Two months later (early August) from that first wall, I finally had all 4 walls up and the roof joists on (6x2s). I had some unplanned work trips which interrupted my progress, and of course lots of outside time with the family when the sun is shining. The summer is both the best and worst time to do this!

Well holidays and more work trips later, in October the roof finally got put on






And yes, my boys didn't have much interest in the build until they saw an opportunity to climb on a ladder and be on the roof!


----------



## BucksDad

Well here is the frame and roof (EPDM rubber) completed in October. I don't have anywhere else to store the timber and other bits and pieces whilst I do the project, so it's stored inside the shed and as you can see, it looks (and is) a state.

Anyway, it was time to get on with the cladding. We decided we really liked vertical cladding and we settled on board-on-board. I liked this because it meant I would only need 1 lot of battening which would make the overhang smaller.






Thanks to a tip I picked up from Ali Dymock's channel, I spaced off the battening with 6mm ply so I do have a small gap with the cladding as well as all the holes board-on-board creates.






And here it is with the first layer of cladding in late November and door frame in. This wasn't too bad to put up - just a long and tiring process. The cladding is Siberian Larch from Silva Timber and will be oiled. Note that I didn't (and still haven't) done the cuts for the cladding around the door / window.






This was the state of the inside of the shed! As you can imagine, I have bumped on a fair few things trying to move around in there  You can't see it from this photo but there's a ton of cladding, battens, soffit boards and other bits and pieces in there!


----------



## BucksDad

And to the present day, where this week I have done the soffits (style borrowed from @Molynoox build, just none of his skill!)






I am fairly happy with how the first layer of the cladding has gone but I have also realised the disadvantage of B-o-B - you basically clad the thing twice!
The next step is to cut the top layer of cladding to length and put that on - aiming to do that this week but the forecast is rain all week


----------



## Molynoox

It's looking brilliant well done  have you got power up there?


----------



## BucksDad

Molynoox said:


> It's looking brilliant well done  have you got power up there?


Yes to power. Cable was put in when the garden was landscaped but not wired in yet


----------



## Molynoox

BucksDad said:


> Yes to power. Cable was put in when the garden was landscaped but not wired in yet


Great. I find that exterior lighting is a nice addition to these buildings... functional but also makes them look cool at night.


----------



## BucksDad

Molynoox said:


> Great. I find that exterior lighting is a nice addition to these buildings... functional but also makes them look cool at night.


Yes I plan to do some lighting but also include the rest of the garden, have it all smart controlled etc but I should definitely remember to run some cables for downlighters in the soffits


----------

