# Victorian Timber Frame Barn - Stables to Garage/Workshop



## autojumbled (6 Nov 2018)

This is a fun one. :mrgreen: 

Just moved into our new house. A late Victorian (exact build date currently unknown but title document makes reference to something happening in 1884) end terrace in the New Forest, Hampshire.
In the rear garden we have what I can only describe as a timber framed, metal-clad barn and a smaller similarly constructed shed.















As you can imagine, these structures are pretty old and in need of some love and attention to get them water tight and functional.
My long-term aim is to make use of the barn as a garage and attached workshop, providing the structure is safe and is able to be repaired to a level we're happy with.

From looking over the building, its clear that that the older part is divided into stables with a hay loft above and a newer extension has been added, possibly for cart/carriage storage. I'm wondering whether it was housing for a taxi or milk cart or similar, back in the olden times. Certainly these buildings pre-date the house - I need to do more digging at the local library (as well as find some details on how 'protected' it is).










Being realistic though, the chances of me getting to make any headway on any sort of restoration is a long way off as we have to focus on the house first. Any action I take now will be in aid of slowing down any decay etc.

The rear of the barn is north facing and is where the majority of the dodgy timber is located from what I can tell on my rough once-over.






I absolutely welcome any information on similar buildings or knowledge from timber experts on where I should be concentrating efforts etc!!
Nonetheless, hoping this is going to be an interesting project that may one day serve as home to car tinkering. #-o


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## sunnybob (7 Nov 2018)

wonderful to look at and explore, but a money pit to attempt to restore.
I think you should be praying for a hurricane (after making sure your insurance is up to date of course) :roll: :roll:


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## autojumbled (7 Nov 2018)

sunnybob":29o5h8dg said:


> wonderful to look at and explore, but a money pit to attempt to restore.
> I think you should be praying for a hurricane (after making sure your insurance is up to date of course) :roll: :roll:



That reminds me - I need to check up on the insurance!


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## MikeG. (7 Nov 2018)

Stunning! 

I assume your house isn't Listed? Don't listen to anyone who says push them over. The conversions will be well worth the time and effort that goes into them. I've got a number of such buildings on the go at the moment, two at least in far worse condition. One thing I will say is that you should be extremely grateful for the crinkly tin, which has saved huge numbers of old buildings from destruction over the years.

If you do nothing else now, just nail down any flapping tin, and go around the outside of both buildings with a shovel, clearing back vegetation and lowering any piled up soil. Have a good look at gutters & downpipes with the aim of diverting rainwater away from the foot of the building. Your next job is to do a measured survey drawing, and start planning.


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## autojumbled (7 Nov 2018)

MikeG.":1cp6m3zt said:


> Stunning!
> 
> I assume your house isn't Listed? Don't listen to anyone who says push them over. The conversions will be well worth the time and effort that goes into them. I've got a number of such buildings on the go at the moment, two at least in far worse condition. One thing I will say is that you should be extremely grateful for the crinkly tin, which has saved huge numbers of old buildings from destruction over the years.
> 
> If you do nothing else now, just nail down any flapping tin, and go around the outside of both buildings with a shovel, clearing back vegetation and lowering any piled up soil. Have a good look at gutters & downpipes with the aim of diverting rainwater away from the foot of the building. Your next job is to do a measured survey drawing, and start planning.



Thanks Mike, appreciate the direction.

I've already started clearing the edges and cutting out ivy roots etc to help things.
A slight issue will be getting access along the side of the building which sits on the boundary line with next-door. I've already started making friends so hopefully I can keep them sweet!


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## Woody2Shoes (7 Nov 2018)

I have serious shed envy!

Your profile says new Forest - if you're in the National Park the planning rules are a potentially a lot stricter. It's possible it could be "locally listed" as some kind of "heritage asset" - which again may make it slightly less simple to alter the external appearance - I guess your local Parish Council could help you clarify this.

I think that the best source of info. about former uses would be from chatting to old folk who've lived nearby for a long time. I got to know the old boy who was born in our house before WW1 (he only died about five years ago!) and he was able to show me old photos of the adjoining stables in use prior to WW2 - his job as the youngest boy was to look after the horses - raising water for them from the well.

It looks as if someone has renews the ridge capping on the hayloft relatively recently. The wiggly tin could be (re-)painted with black bituminous paint to extend its life - but keeping the timbers dry and preventing wind getting in and lifting the roof off are the two most important things.

Cheers, W2S


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## MusicMan (7 Nov 2018)

Wonderful buildings! Keep us posted!

Keith


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## autojumbled (7 Nov 2018)

Woody2Shoes":17237u3i said:


> I have serious shed envy!
> 
> Your profile says new Forest - if you're in the National Park the planning rules are a potentially a lot stricter. It's possible it could be "locally listed" as some kind of "heritage asset" - which again may make it slightly less simple to alter the external appearance - I guess your local Parish Council could help you clarify this.
> 
> ...



I was informed by someone during the buying process that the barn is a heritage asset but so far I've found no official record of this. Once we're a bit more settled in I'll approach the local councils and do a bit of digging.
First port of call though is the local library as according to my neighbour they have a wealth of local history, maps, census stuff that might help me estimate it's age and purpose.
I do know however that whilst we are in the New Forest National Park, we're not officially in the conservation area. Oddly, our road is outside the area and the rear of the property sits on the boundary.

I suspect that providing the overall structure doesn't change, the council probably isn't going to be too concerned!


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## Harbo (7 Nov 2018)

Apart from the NF District Council there’s the Verderers Court but they are mainly concerned with loss of grazing etc.
Probably a good thing being just outside their boundaries. I’ve worked on a number of road schemes in the Forest and they certainly made things very difficult.

Rod


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## MikeG. (7 Nov 2018)

autojumbled":1d27bazl said:


> .........I do know however that whilst we are in the New Forest National Park, we're not officially in the conservation area..........



These are two very separate things in Planning terms. Being in the National Park means, for instance, that you don't have the same Permitted Development rights as others, and the Park authority will get to be consulted on any application. It means that virtually everything you do to your property will require permission. A conservation area is associated with a village or other community, usually , and means that the local Listed Buildings people get to comment on any application. These are two distinct bodies. I doubt that being outside the conservation area will make any material difference to anything you plan to do, as in my experience national parks' requirements are more onerous than those applied to conservation areas.


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## autojumbled (7 Nov 2018)

I've lived in the forest for a few years now and have attended my fair share of local Parish planning meetings and think I've got a good feel for the sort of things they and the NF Planning Authority care/worry about when it comes to developments.
Maybe I can find a sympathetic local planner who i can get on-board to point me in the right direction.... we'll see! :wink:


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## Woody2Shoes (7 Nov 2018)

Mike's right - National Park status pretty much trumps Conservation Area - although they are two different things which don't fully overlap - and "local listing" would make things more sensitive still. I understand your point that you're outside the CA, but even someone just outside a Conservation Area can be affected by it in planning terms if they want to do something which would detract from the context/views into/out of the CA.

The key messages are: if you let it fall/blow down, you may very well not get permission to rebuild it; you may well be expected to retain the external appearance (which would be no bad thing anyway IMHO).

Cheers, W2S


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## autojumbled (7 Nov 2018)

Oh yeah, I definitely want to retain the external appearance. That's the easy but I reckon ....it's the stuff underneath that worries me!

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk


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## MikeG. (7 Nov 2018)

autojumbled":37dws023 said:


> Oh yeah, I definitely want to retain the external appearance. That's the easy but I reckon ....it's the stuff underneath that worries me!.......



Seriously, don't worry. You'll be fine with those buildings. If I lived closer I'd pop over and have a look with you, for the price of a cup of tea (and cake of course). Second best is the internet, this forum, and some good photos.


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## El Barto (7 Nov 2018)

WOW that is amazing! I am very jealous. Please keep us updated.


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## autojumbled (8 Nov 2018)

MikeG.":21iqm1lz said:


> autojumbled":21iqm1lz said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah, I definitely want to retain the external appearance. That's the easy but I reckon ....it's the stuff underneath that worries me!.......
> ...



Well if you're ever in the Forest on a caravaning holiday or something - let me know! :mrgreen:


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## autojumbled (31 Dec 2018)

Not much in the way of updates but I just wanted to share a couple more pictures with you.

A couple of the floor from the front section of the barn (I believe originally a cart store). Appears to be brick laid across the whole floor in here. Also appears to be the same construction in the stables end as well, albeit at a different level.






Can also see the brick course here too with the sole plate (if you can call it that!) - this is the same throughout the entire building. This i think, is where I need the most help in figuring out what to do with it - is it usable as-is? or should I replace the brick courses?!






Most of the interior is lined with DPM and has done a great job over the years over preventing any water ingress. I was expecting to find wet timber behind but overall its very dry throughout.










and a couple of the roof timbers, again....all dry 










The front section is all emptied out of rubbish now and I just had to double check that I was going to be able to use it as my intended garage (with workshop area in the stables end) - there's a buckets of room to get a car in and move around in there - consider myself enthused!


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## MikeG. (31 Dec 2018)

Great stuff. I imagine those bricks are just laid on sand, or direct onto the soil.

The most important job you can do now is to get the ground level down all around the outside, such that it is below the inside floor level.


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## autojumbled (31 Dec 2018)

MikeG.":21vlmq5f said:


> Great stuff. I imagine those bricks are just laid on sand, or direct onto the soil.
> 
> The most important job you can do now is to get the ground level down all around the outside, such that it is below the inside floor level.



If they are laid direct to soil/sand - should I be considering digging them up and putting in something a little more solid? i.e. a small foundation and new bricks/blocks.


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## MikeG. (31 Dec 2018)

autojumbled":3ukwgx3p said:


> MikeG.":3ukwgx3p said:
> 
> 
> > Great stuff. I imagine those bricks are just laid on sand, or direct onto the soil.
> ...



I was talking about the flooring. I think you may be talking about the plinth. The answer to both is "approach with caution". If you can resolve any ground level issues, prevent water ingress anywhere through the walls and roof, and if you can maintain reasonable ventilation, then your building doesn't need anything other than maintenance and repair, in principle.........so long as it hasn't suffered any serious damage to date.


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## autojumbled (27 Feb 2019)

Seeing as the weather was nice at the weekend I decided to do some footings investigation - prompted by Mike's advice to bring the outside ground to below the inside floor level.

This main edge of the barn has approx 1 course of bricks (of the plinth) showing above the floor from the inside so digging the outside to the level shown here should take me where we need to be:







It's pretty grotty though from years of being under earth. Bricks are a bit crumbly in places but I guess they're still doing the job.






The rear edge is a similar story but I have a different problem here in that the inside floor level of this section of the barn is much lower. A good 3-4 courses of the plinth is exposed on the inside and the floor level has a step down from the main section of the barn. Therefore, what i've dug out in the picture below I don't think is yet level with the inside floor, or maybe just.
Either way, I need to get digging out this area to reduce the overall ground level outside (something I wanted to do anyway as part of my re-landscape of the garden):


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## MikeG. (27 Feb 2019)

Great start. Well done. =D> =D> 

Honestly, it's difficult to get across how important this is, but if you do nothing else other than this and fix any leak, your building will last decades longer, and be measurably drier internally. Be careful not to form any hollows/ sumps adjacent to the building as you dig away, bearing in mind that you've probably only a day or two left before the weather goes back to normal.


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