# I want a lathe



## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

I've been watching various turning videos on youtube, particularly wortheffort, and hells bells I want a lathe, but wow they're expensive. Add in some decent gouges and a chuck and it really starts getting painful.

Buying the biggest and best you might ever use is not practical given what they can cost, so a mini is probably the place to start, and accept it won't be able to do everything.

At the lower end it probably becomes a trade-off between quality and features. Greater sizes (length and diameter) and variable speed control seem like the features to consider.

The cheapest Axminster lathe (AC205WL) says only " up to 200mm diameter. " and it's probably much less than that once you actually want to put your banjo in position, so it's perhaps completely impractical? It does have that variable speed though.
The next one up (AC240WL) gets a touch bigger, "240mm diameter", but loses the variable speed.
From there it's 400 quid and upwards which my wife might start raising an eyebrow over right now.

It doesn't sound like anyone would recommend a Clarke lathe, and generic Chinesey ones on the usual sites are probably a bad idea.

There seem to be very few used available.

I'm a bit stuck. Hopefully I'm wrong about some of my assessments and some options can open back up?


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Sep 2020)

200mm diameter is for a chuck or faceplate - the banjo doesn't come into it, a small lathe won't handle a piece between centres of that size anyway.
The drawback with all (especially entry level) power tools and machinery is that the capacities and capabilities are ALWAYS overstated, and invariably limited by the weight of the machine and the size of the motor - the lathe may physically hold a piece of a certain size, but it will shake like a rattle and the motor will stall with all but the very lightest of cuts with a perfectly sharp tool (which unless you have very good equipment you probably won't have).
There are numerous decent smallish lathes on ebay, Record, ML8, Tyme etc. but if you do look at these research the thread size of the spindle and therefore the availability of faceplates and chucks.
Don't forget that even at £400 you will end up spending as much on tools, sharpening equipment and PPE as you did on the lathe.


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> 200mm diameter is for a chuck or faceplate - the banjo doesn't come into it, a small lathe won't handle a piece between centres of that size anyway.



I thought 200mm was the distance from the drive centre to the bed. (Or rather, twice the distance because diameter.) So while you could fit a 200mm diameter piece, and spin it, you wouldn't be able to work it because you wouldn't be able to get the banjo underneath it for the toolrest. This is what I picked up from  last night, at least.

It sounds like you don't think "entry level" is worth the time.


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Sep 2020)

You don't need the banjo under the blank, you just need a slightly longer tool rest. Entry level for many people is fine - just be very aware of the limitations.


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## TheTiddles (4 Sep 2020)

What do you want to make?
I have a midi lathe which we replaced a large elu with years ago and I’ve had no limits on the things I make. If you want to make large bowls yes you need a chunky lathe, but for most thinks you don’t.
Lathes are sold second hand at really low prices (as they’re very simple things). I see many lovely machine for a couple of hundred that I wouldn’t have the space for, things like viceroy etc...


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

What do I want to make? Wood chips?  Bowls look like a nice project. I don't have any particular problem I want to solve, rather I like the process and the possibilities.

Where do you find second hand lathes at really low prices, though? I've looked on ebay and gumtree and there's not very much. A few more if I look nationwide of course.


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## TheTiddles (4 Sep 2020)

Obviously that depends on what you call really low!

If you consider how much a similar machine new costs, many old lumps of iron are very cheap, but they are still £100’s. I see them on gumtree and Facebook marketplace and I’m not usually looking for them. Also consider that a 100 mile drive might be well worth it for the right machine.

The size of 200mm you quoted will allow a bowl of that size to be made, which isn’t inconsiderable, you will be able to make plenty at that size. Tools can be picked up secondhand and you really don’t need many, roughing gouge, skew, parting tool, bowl gouge and a round nose scraper will do just about everything for starters, that’s about all I use and have had for years.

Aidan


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## TheTiddles (4 Sep 2020)

For example, there’s a Minimax T90 for £100 in Salisbury, not a favourite machine, but it’s got a long bed, for £200 in Ringwood there’s a new’ish Record. Looking further a Union Graduate for £500 in Exeter, that’s a fantastic machine (if you have the space) including lots of tools too


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## clogs (4 Sep 2020)

MR w.w.Ho.....
afraid u'll just have to wait a while till the right one comes around.....
unless ur lucky u'll need to travel.....my RS was shipped 800miles to Crete.....that cost was just a tad over £350.....
still cheap....well, for a heavy peice of kit.....
try and buy something from this forum or www.homeworkshop.org I think....
always stuff on there....
Ideally u need something the widow is getting rid off....after the sad event....
that way u'll get other tools and poss some wood stock as well....
u can get a rubbish lathe from a little over 100 new but forget it.....
go for the max u can afford but used.....that way u'll get something decent......
also remember u cant just bolt it to the kitchen table.....so the used route will help with that quite often....
u need to be up with the lark to check the add's.....bargains do happen u've just gotta be first
U can ask ebay to notify u by email if something turns up to ur spec....
ask around to see if there is a wood turners assoc locally and or the org 'Men In Sheds".....
if they have a lathe u may get a chance to use one before u spend out....


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

What about variable power? Is that the kind of thing to live and die over, or not worry about as a feature?


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## TheTiddles (4 Sep 2020)

westwardho said:


> What about variable power? Is that the kind of thing to live and die over, or not worry about as a feature?


Variable power? Speed yes, but I can’t think of any that haven’t got it, the method is the variable, changing a belt takes seconds so don’t worry about that, electronic speed control, nice bit in no means essential
Aidan


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

Sorry, yes, I meant speed. Brain fart while looking at Record Power lathes. I meant electronic variable.


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Sep 2020)

A variable whether electronic or a reeves drive is something you can do without, but you something you will never do without after you've had one. Sometimes altering the speed by a few tens of RPM can stop the blank shaking. Think of when the steering in your car shakes at say 65mph when you have wheel out of balance - often it stops when you increase or decrease your speed by just a few MPH. As the weight of your unbalanced blank changes with cutting it'll shake at a different speed - with a variable speed drive you can usually correct it.
Get yourself a copy of this - Woodturning: A Foundation Course by Rowley, Keith: Good Paperback (1998) | Goldstone Books
and try to join a local club before making expensive mistakes. Club memebers often sell lathes on, as the either up or down size.


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## Lonsdale73 (4 Sep 2020)

I was in your position pre-lockdown. I'd been looking at the Record Power DML320 but didn't want to shell out £600 in case a) I proved to be rubbish at turning or b) found I didn't care as much for it as I thought I might. . I picked up a DML250 which I figured if worst happened I could sell on again without losing too much. It has variable speed in that it has five gear settings. I set it on the middle one as I was advised and found I didn't have much need to ever change it - as I was also advised! I did sell it on, only a few weeks ago but only because I had an opportunity to upgrade to the DML320, primarily for its variable speed. I soo found a speed that I was comfortable with and haven't yet had need to change it. I'm not great at it but I do enjoy it, even the screw-ups. Both my lathes and a set of Robert Sorby gouges to get me started were all found on facebook marketplace and they all involved a bit of travel but it was worth the effort.. Speaking of him - and I have to confess I've not watched it - I do find it funny how he can make a video over an hour long on what he calls a ten-minute project. I like Carl Jacobson and as a newbie, I've been thoroughly enjoying the videos by Colwin Way for Axminster's Skills at Home series, streamed live at 4pm on Tuesdays and Thursdays and that day's video uploaded to youtube later that evening.


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

What about chucks? Do many people do much without a chuck, or do you have to add the 50-100 quid on pretty soon after buying the lathe?


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Sep 2020)

£50 - £100?  I've over £200's worth of jaws.
This is where you'll benefit from finding a club - you can try small lathes and large lathes, spindle and faceplate, with and without a chuck ... Get some idea exactly what interests you most before making expensive mistakes. You might go intending to make large bowls, and two weeks later decide to make pens - horses for courses, and the tools and equipment are often different.


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## westwardho (4 Sep 2020)

Yeah, the South West Wales club is on covid hiatus at the moment, though.


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## MusicMan (4 Sep 2020)

westwardho said:


> What about chucks? Do many people do much without a chuck, or do you have to add the 50-100 quid on pretty soon after buying the lathe?


You can certainly start without a chuck. Spindle turning does not use a chuck, but a steb centre, which is cheap. Bowl turning preferably uses a chuck to turn the inside but you can manage with a home-made jamb chuck or hot glue on wood held in the faceplate. I dare say the clubs will be restarting soon.

Lonsdale's advice and experience is good,


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## Richard_C (4 Sep 2020)

In a similar situation a bit over a year ago, sort of part retirement present to myself but didn't want to go overboard on total cost. Here's what I did, but other answers are equally valid:

Record Power DML 305, attracted by the heavy cast bed and 12 inch throw, £300. The DML 250 has a 10 inch throw, would have been fine I think. Decent blanks are expensive, most of what I have don is in the 7 - 10 inch range anyway. Got an extension bed £70 at the same time, mainly thinking if the range was discontinued I would kick myself for not getting it when I could. It adds to the weight, sort of giant damper, and there were one or two things I wanted to be able to do above the standard length.

Its a 6 speed belt change. First time, though this is a pain but after the 10th it was quick and not a problem. Variable would be nice, but not essential. 2 modifications, one using a sherry bottle top to turn the hex head screw into a hand turn screw for opening the belt cover, and a list of speeds stuck to the body with a magnet to move to remind myself what I last set it at when you come back to it after a couple of weeks.

Built a trestle style bench using decking support timber (my local landscape place is lots closer than the nearest timber merchants), plus some large coach bolts maybe £25 all in. Being home made you can drill a hole to keep your live centre, add a bracket for the chuck key etc etc at will.

The DML range comes with a live centre, drive centre and a faceplate (but check, thees things change) so you can get spindle turning with no extras, and bowl turning with a bit of imagination.

I ended up buying a chuck and 3 sets of jaws over time, you can spend an infinite amount but £100 gets you started and another £100 gets you most of what you might want. I also got myself a tail stock chuck, from memory about £25.

For tools I bought a set of 5 (skew, round scraper, parting, roughing gouge and spindle gouge) which cost about £130. Later got 2 bowl gouges, but you can do a lot with a round end scraper (purists look away now) and I have no desire to add to the collection until/unless I have mastered what I already own. I had an old grinder. I soon discovered that the grey wheels were not the right thing so spent money on new wheels and time on constructing a jig. That was a mistake, for little more than what I spent on wheels I could have thrown it all away and started again with better kit.

Unless you come across good second hand kit, I reckon you need to add about £170-£200 to the lathe price to get started (tools, materials to make stand, some way to sharpen).

I hope that helps, I'm sure you can do it for less but there is a trade-off between the time you spend looking for pre-owned and the cost of new. I didn't feel confident enough to judge if a second hand lathe was OK or not, now I would know what to look for.


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## RickG (5 Sep 2020)

Lots of good advice above. I would definitely buy a used lathe. Anything Axminster or Record Power would be good as a start. 
You mention bowls, but something you'll find is, after you've made a fruit bowl for a couple of families, the need for large bowls seems to dry up.
What most of us then get into is boxes, goblets, vases.
I have a midi size Axminster and a small size lathe. Most of what I turn could be done on the small Axminster lathe. What the small one lacks is weight to stop vibration from uneven logs. (I don't buy commercially sold blanks.)
I've added weight to the midi lathe by sitting paving slabs and sand bags on the rails of the lathes stand.
If I was starting again i would join an AWGB woodturning club. Watch the demos and get hands on with other members. Then have cash saved ready for when a widow is ready to have a fair offer for her hubby's complete setup. You see something real bargains like that.
Also, chucks and tools often come with used lathes. Often not causing much additional to the price, or so it seems to me.


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## Retired (5 Sep 2020)

Hi,

A Record DML 24" lathe is a nice bit of kit to start on. 3 speed nothing fancy but a good solid lathe and a set of three basic wood turning tools to play with. I've owned my DML 24" for over 30 years and will never part with it because it was a Christmas present from my lovely wife. Pop round to your local joinery company and offer to pay for any hardwood offcuts they have; I've had lots of car loads of oak; ash & meranti at £25 cash per load.

I've also owned a huge Dominion 3 phase lathe; a Jubilee and I currently own my fully restored 3 phase through VFD Union Graduate. It's surprising though what can be turned on the DML without the need for variable speed. 

Watching YouTube video's is always interesting and gives a novice something to aspire to but a good wood turner doesn't need masses of tools or fancy chucks; start with a decent good quality lathe and ignore the flimsy Chinese with their variable speed and low power.

Kind regards, Colin.


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## The Gray Man (5 Sep 2020)

I've been wrestling with this question too. Would absolutely love a lathe, but my workshop is now pretty full, and my wallet pretty empty. The conclusion I've reached (although happy to hear views from people) is that - at least as a starting point - I'll make one! There are a gazillion YT vids about that, and I know some of them are incredibly sophisticated and would end up taking as much space and money as a shop bought one, but some are very simple. Patrick Sullivan in particular built what he called "The disappearing lathe" which looks great *as a starter*. At least I could try it, and then either work out how to fit/afford a bigger unit, or realise that turning wasn't for me - or even be happy with just that DIY job for the occasional handle.


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## Phil Pascoe (5 Sep 2020)

... I've added weight to the midi lathe by sitting paving slabs and sand bags on the rails of the lathes stand ...

I've a hundredweight of sand and the bricks from eight night storage heaters under mine.


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## RickG (5 Sep 2020)

@The Gray Man , I've not seen the videos on making your own lathe. You would need a good motor, pulleys , to get the speed and torque, and a method to mount turning centres. You'd also need to be confident of being able to get the headstock and tailstock aligned. You also need to be able to have all this not come to a bringing halt every time the gouge hits a bit of which grain in the timber.
I picked up my small Axminster, with a few tools and a chuck, drive centres and live centre, for about £120. Why go to the trouble?


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## Cooper (5 Sep 2020)

I use a very old 3 phase Union graduate with an inverter from single phase to 3 with variable speed, which Bob Minchen, of this parish, made for me. I use the variable speed all the time.
I have been able to make anything I want, from big bowls from logs to whistles. If I was skint and didn't mind working out of doors I would build a pole lathe. I've seen domos, arranged by the Worshipful Company of Turners at the Carpenters Hall in the City, where they made brilliant pieces, bowls and between centres. Its worth a google: Pole Lathe.
Good luck


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## Retired (5 Sep 2020)

Hi,

It's worth considering the long term. About a year ago I started to turn finial lidded boxes enjoying every one of them but then what; they quickly multiply with space running out in the bungalow and giving a number as prezzies to friends; I've never attempted big bowls or platters etc they would take up too much space. Most of my woodturning has been useful items like furniture legs but now we've got all the furniture we need or even want. 

At the age of 16 way back in 1963 I was let loose with fellow mechanical engineering apprentices on a bank of brand new Colchester lathes at Crigglestone Colliery Training Center; from the very first job on the lathe I've been addicted to lathes; at one point I had five lathes but now only have three lathes; a DML 24"; Union Graduate and an extremely rare Lorch Schmidt precision engineering lathe. Even after so many years I still never tire of lathe work; I've even learned metal spinning doing this on my much modified Graduate.

With winter now iminent I plan to do more wood turning so to save space I'll make these as Christmas presents just for the fun of it. 

When I retired in 2000 I adopted restoring vintage valve radios and ten years later had at least 70 of these radios all occupying lots of space; I ended up closing my radio shack and disposing of all the test equipment and coil winders together with most of the radio collection; the same thing happens with wood turning; start off with the odd item and the hobby takes over.

I've got lots of expensive turning tools but strangely I only use about three of them; 

Patriot Chuck

Above is just one of the chucks I have; I've also got collets and drawbar. The tooling quickly mounts up in cost; for a novice though a faceplate and wooden "jam chucks" take some beating costing very little indeed.

My Graduate lathe was virtually scrap when I bought it from an academy but being a mechanical engineer I like to buy such machinery deriving a lot of pleasure from restoring/upgrading them; the old cast iron machines are definitely best they can be restored with just a hand full of tools; bearings and drive belts are cheap.

For many years I dreamt of owning a Graduate and drooled over the new Graduate on sale at John Boddy's costing then around £3,000 but I could dream on. Now I have the Graduate I'm not disappointed; it's a wonderful lathe after it's rebuild and upgrade; it's now on 3 phase through a VFD and 1.5hp inverter rated top quality Brook motor; new SKF headstock bearings and drive belt it runs very sweetly indeed but most of the turning I do on the Graduate I could just as easily do on my DML 24". It's so easy to be awestruck watching turners with every must have bit of kit but how much is just for show?

Once a wood turning lathe is bought and nicely installed then comes a bandsaw and sharpening machines; I have a double ended bench grinder but also a home made 2" belt tool grinder; HSS tools are best for a novice these can be sharpened easily enough.

Good luck; once you own your first lathe it's unlikely you'll ever be without a lathe in future.

Kind regards, Colin.


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## Cooper (5 Sep 2020)

Re pole lathe, I would think that there complete kit could be made from old logs.
Cheers
Martin


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## Ron Tock (5 Sep 2020)

westwardho said:


> I've been watching various turning videos on youtube, particularly wortheffort, and hells bells I want a lathe, but wow they're expensive. Add in some decent gouges and a chuck and it really starts getting painful.
> 
> Buying the biggest and best you might ever use is not practical given what they can cost, so a mini is probably the place to start, and accept it won't be able to do everything.
> 
> ...


I bought a Record Power DML305, which, at £299, was the best quality lathe in my price bracket and a Record Power RP2000 scroll chuck back in July 2019. Prior to ordering the lathe, I had been buying used gouges on Ebay as and when I could afford them (in fact, I bought the chuck before I bought the lathe as that was only a little over £70). Like you, I had been watching YouTube videos, including Worth the effort (he is very informative even though he does deliver instruction like a drill sergeant).
The DML305, however, does not have a variable speed. But, in my case, this was a plus. My reasoning is that shifting the belt across the pulleys to change the speed takes only a few seconds and the only problems I am likely to encounter is a worn belt, which is cheap to buy and easy to replace. I might have gone for a variable speed if I was sufficiently conversant with electronics to fix a variable speed unit in the event it starts idling or racing. This is a problem that is far too common for my liking. In most cases, it will continue to function okay but the number of examples when the speed control fails and renders the lathe unusable until the unit is replaced at considerably more expence than the cost of a new belt is enough to justify my decision to go for a totally user serviceable machine. It is a 'midi' lathe with a maximum bowl diameter of 305mm (12") and a maximum of 393mm (15.5") between centres. It's a cast iron lathe and very solid.

Whichever lathe you go for, enjoy turning. It's pure joy. You will soon find yourself looking at trees as a butcher looks at cows


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## Retired (5 Sep 2020)

Hi,






I recently bought a 3hp single phase 240V motor speed controller similar to the one in the picture; I'm experimenting with a 1,950W commercial microwave transformer but thought it worth adding the detail because these motor controllers come in lots of sizes and are cheap enough to try. Perhaps other members have more information because I've not yet had time to play in the workshop.

Kind regards, Colin.


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## jamchuck (6 Sep 2020)

@westwardho have a read of my tutorials on choosing a lathe - www.turnadowoodturning.com/tutorials. There’s a 12 buying criteria to help you consider what’s important vs what’s a nice-to-have. And maybe help convince Senior Management that spending a bit more is better for your safety. It’s not that the cheaper lathes are bad, they’re lightweight and can’t absorb the vibrations when cutting a large bowl blank, for example. Have a read and post me any questions you have or give us a call and we can help.


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## jamchuck (6 Sep 2020)

When I started, I found Wyoming Woodturner Sam Anderson very good at explaining sharpening and methods. Also Mike Peace is equally as good. Mike Waldt does beginner basics reasonably well.


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## Anthraquinone (6 Sep 2020)

When you do decide on a lathe I would suggest you post the make and model here and ask for any feedback on it.


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## westwardho (6 Sep 2020)

I've been looking at various - a Union Graduate (500 quid, and a bit of a distance), a Scheppach DTM 450 (fairly local).

I was talking to my neighbour today, who has a Record lathe, and after looking at the used ones he suggested perhaps






Woodturning Lathes | Next Day Delivery


Premium performance woodturning lathe. Ultra quiet. Electronic variable speed control. LED digital speed display. Excellent vibration. Perfect spindle concentricity. Industry standard spindle thread. The lathe develops as you develop.




www.rutlands.co.uk


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Sep 2020)

The Graduate and the Rutlands offering don't belong in the same universe. Take the Graduate, you can always upgrade it a while down the line if needs it.


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## westwardho (6 Sep 2020)

I do like a nice strong opinion


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## Doris (6 Sep 2020)

Got my Coronet CL3 (the predecessor to the record lathes) for £170 off of gumtree years ago. This came with 2 chucks, screw chucks, 2 Jacobs chucks and 3 centres. The lady I bought it all off if was the widow of the original owner.
My point being if you do but second hand a lot of the time chucks etc are thrown in which saves you even more money in the long run. Some might not be great but it's a start.

Also would recommend checking out www.lathes.co.uk if you see a particular second hand lathe you like as it has tons of information and gives honest opinions on the lathes if they are well built, thread sizes etc.


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## TheTiddles (6 Sep 2020)

He’s not wrong!


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## westwardho (10 Sep 2020)

What is a record power model no 0, and why can't I find anything about it online?


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## okeydokey (11 Sep 2020)

Hi
Possibly Record Coronet No 0 lathe try searching that name
Its Record from long time back, well before the Record Power name existed - sort of the same company though


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## okeydokey (11 Sep 2020)

I think Coronet were absorbed into Record Tools in the 1970's


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## Doris (12 Sep 2020)

Coronet & Record No.1, 2 and 3 wood lathes


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