# How to stop Lathe and Mill rusting in my shed



## cjharley (27 Jan 2021)

Is there any thing I can do to stop the machined surface from rusting?
I have recently purchased a mill and a lathe "not out of boxes yet" afraid of destroying them.


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## biker_smith (27 Jan 2021)

Buy a cheap dehumidifier (eBay, Argos etc).


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## cjharley (27 Jan 2021)

The shed is not air tight, I was thinking of getting the moisture pads this take the moisture out of the air, the dehumidfier would cost a fortune to run?


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## porker (27 Jan 2021)

Another thing you can do is to raise the temperature slightly of the machines. One of the big issues is condensation forming on the cold metal parts. Some people used to put a small heater (or a low wattage bulb) near the machine to keep it a few degrees above ambient. Also you could cover the machine with a permeable cover (i.e. breathable). Even an old cotton sheet should do.


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## cjharley (27 Jan 2021)

I'm getting a radiator fitted to day, sill afraid of rust.... my welding bench was stored in it. I haven't been well for a a bit over a year and hadn't been in the shed, my welding bench need a couple of days with a grinder to take the rust off. but I was thinking of buying a couple of old quilts and covers to cover them.. Just £10000 investment just worried.


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## Jelly (27 Jan 2021)

From experience it's all about maintaining the workshop and machine temperature a just a little higher than the outside, to ensure that the internal environment can never reach 100% relative humidity compared to the outside (effectively warm air holds more water than cold air, so warming it up reduces the likelihood water will condense), and the machines are above the "Dew Point" temperature.

Ideally you want to maintain difference of a few celcius between the inside and outside temperature even during the coldest periods of the year; that means the workshop might still be rather cold in the depths of winter, but does help keep the cost manageable.



First do what you can to Seal up *any* holes which will let rain in (even pinhole leaks), then try to reduce air-exchanges to at most "draughty room" kind of levels and finally insulate the shed as best you can (Thermawrap foil insulation is probably cheapest and easiest to install as a quick fix, just not particularly attractive, or well suited to being the only permanent fix).


Then pop a small heater (I found a 500w oil-filled radiator is good for this) in the shed, and leave it turned on during the winter months.

From experience it will end up costing more in energy, whilst preventing rust less effectively if you try putting it on a timer, than just leaving it on with its thermostat turned up just enough to keep the air temperatures warmer a few degrees (ideally about 4 celsius more) than outside.

Putting oiled sheets or blankets over the machines themselves can help further, and if you did that with the insulation and a small heater placed close to the machines you should be good for most of the year.


When it gets really cold (below freezing), then you might want to run a more powerful heater (or turn on the boost switch on your oil-fired radiator) in there during and a few days immediately after the cold snap, just to prevent condensation as the temperature comes back up.


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## cjharley (27 Jan 2021)

I'm getting a radiator fitted at present, an seal the room with the thermal foil insulation brilliant idea. thanks to everyone with the great advice. Another question I'm new to machining what tooling would to but as starter tooling for a Cormak 310x900 lathe & a ZX7055 with DRO Mill. think of it as "Machining for dummy's" and again thanks


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## Jelly (27 Jan 2021)

cjharley said:


> I'm getting a radiator fitted at present, an seal the room with the thermal foil insulation brilliant idea.


Honestly two weeks ago I would never have thought about the stuff, but by happy accident...

I'm in the middle of insulating my workshop, and was let down by my glazier before Christmas (replacing metal doors with wooden ones I made with DG windows in) so when we had the cold snap my energy use to keep it at a safe temperature skyrocketed; so I went rooting in the cellar for a roll of that thermawrap which was left over from helping a friend do a camper conversion.

Just enough on one roll to cover the doors, and it made a noticeable difference, so I used a thermal camera to look at the relative temperatures, and a single layer of the foil is doing about 40-60% as good a job as my 3" rockwool in the walls!

I'm very impressed by the value for money it offers, and will be re-using mine to make blinds for the windows once the new doors go in.


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## kenledger (27 Jan 2021)

I have soaked strips of towelling in clean engine oil. Late September i clean the surfaces down and lay the towel on the bare cast surfaces.
Spring arrives i roll the strips uo and put them in old plastic milk bottle cut in half.
Old fashioned way.


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## Roland (27 Jan 2021)

I have the benefit of a chest freezer in my small workshop. It keeps the temperature a degree or so above ambient. (It’s also an “always clear” surface when I need to put something down). However the horizontal iron surfaces are still prone to rust. After I’ve put polish on a turned bowl I wipe the rag over the drill table and lathe runners before putting it away. The amount of wax deposited is minuscule, but helps to keep rust at bay.


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## TheTiddles (27 Jan 2021)

I have an un-heated garage, drafty as you like. I wax the beds and cover with goretex sheets, no major rust problems over the last decade on any cast iron beds

I wouldn’t put absorbent cloth over them, it’ll hold moisture right where you don’t want it.

Aidan


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## Jelly (27 Jan 2021)

TheTiddles said:


> cover with goretex sheets,



That's a nifty idea, I have loads of off-brand waterproof breathable fabric in a range of garish colours just doing nothing.

@cjharley if you want some knock off goretex to cover your machines, PM me and I'll happily pop some in the post.


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## Ttrees (27 Jan 2021)

This recent excellent thread from Argus is worth reading.








Wet and Dry, a Little bit of Measuring...


There’s a lot of debate recently on this site (and others) around the subject of rust and its prevention on static hand tools – typically in unheated sheds and garages over the winter months. This has led to the dreaded words “Dehumidification”, “Dew Point”, then “Psychrometrics”….. yes...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk




Glad I found it, as it will take time to understand, (for me anyways)
Tom


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## Awac (27 Jan 2021)

Always had good results with Ballistol for long term protection.

_BALLISTOL is widely used in the precision gauge and tool industry and in the production of scales and other precision instruments. BALLISTOL provides a protective alkaline film on the surface of metals, neutralises hand sweat and other acid corrosive residues so that the surface is protected of corrosion. Due to its low surface tension, it is capable of creeping into the tiniest cracks and fissures of metal surfaces. It cleans and makes silver and brass shiny. Brilliant for the upkeep of tools and instruments in the field of precision mechanics. _


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## bryan267 (28 Jan 2021)

I used 25mm insulation board in mine, single skin concrete block plasterboard and ply internal wall coverings, but easy to cut to fit in the frame of a wooden shed. Then installed a thermostat to control a few of these tube heaters, very low power consumption compared to a radiator. I keep a panel heater on the same circuit but keep all the heaters on switched sockets so I can isolate the panel heater when I’m not in there. The thermostat is set to 11 Celsius, just a number that I thought would be bare-able on entering the workshop, I don’t “notice” any extra energy consumption, obviously there is. 
Tubular Heaters


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## TheTiddles (28 Jan 2021)

Jelly said:


> That's a nifty idea, I have loads of off-brand waterproof breathable fabric in a range of garish colours just doing nothing.
> 
> @cjharley if you want some knock off goretex to cover your machines, PM me and I'll happily pop some in the post.


Magnets sewn into the corners means they stay put too


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## Auldfart2010 (28 Jan 2021)

Awac said:


> Always had good results with Ballistol for long term protection.
> 
> _BALLISTOL is widely used in the precision gauge and tool industry and in the production of scales and other precision instruments. BALLISTOL provides a protective alkaline film on the surface of metals, neutralises hand sweat and other acid corrosive residues so that the surface is protected of corrosion. Due to its low surface tension, it is capable of creeping into the tiniest cracks and fissures of metal surfaces. It cleans and makes silver and brass shiny. Brilliant for the upkeep of tools and instruments in the field of precision mechanics. _


So expensive though.


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## Awac (28 Jan 2021)

Auldfart2010 said:


> So expensive though.


LOL, I'm too poor to buy cheap!
Interesting thing about Ballistol as an oil, is that is mixes with water. So to clean a gun barrel mix with water pour into the barrel, let it do its stuff then drain. Water evaporates and leaves film of oil. 

So applying that to a large machine (that you might want to re-coat regularly), mix a hand spray with Ballistol and water and spray what you want to protect. I work away for long periods so I just soak some on a rag and wipe over, doesn't use too much in my experience.


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## Jelly (28 Jan 2021)

TheTiddles said:


> Magnets sewn into the corners means they stay put too


Now you're just showing off!


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## stevek (28 Jan 2021)

I never tried it myself but Ive heard of people throwing a “sheet” over a motorbike and then sitting a very small heater, like a small tube heater on the floor under it, the idea being to just keep the bike warm, you would need a very low powered heater and make sure the sheet didnt fall over it,,for myself I keep meaning to get some of that special wax that was developed by the British Meuseum, its apparantly really good and is much more than just wax,,,its got a funny name that escapes me but a bit of Googling would find it,,,,in fact here it is,,.https://www.preservationequipment.com/imagecache/4c2a3a93-e7dc-4f07-904b-a3e000b39c2d/Renaissance-Wax_600x600.jpg


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## Jacob (28 Jan 2021)

I know it's a bit radical but single glazing properly installed becomes an efficient dehumidifier. Sash windows are the ideal - condensation drains out at the meeting rail gap and at the bottom sash on to the cill and out. Has to be enough of a gap. 
Other window shapes can do the same thing, even a single sheet of glass fitted into a rebate but with no putty on the bottom edge but having the glass sitting on plastic spacers to preserve a gap.
Another very traditional solution was to have a condensation drip collecting channel at the bottom of the frame with a 1/2" drain pipe to the outside. I did my windows here with same detail but 10mm copper instead of 1/2" lead pipe. Works brilliantly - you can see it working when it's very cold - drips and icicles on the ends of the pipes.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

Jelly said:


> From experience it's all about maintaining the workshop and machine temperature a just a little higher than the outside, to ensure that the internal environment can never reach 100% relative humidity compared to the outside (effectively warm air holds more water than cold air, so warming it up reduces the likelihood water will condense), and the machines are above the "Dew Point" temperature.
> 
> Ideally you want to maintain difference of a few celcius between the inside and outside temperature even during the coldest periods of the year; that means the workshop might still be rather cold in the depths of winter, but does help keep the cost manageable.
> 
> ...


ordered the road of thermawrap "my job for me and my wee man for the weekend" thanks


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

Jacob said:


> I know it's a bit radical but single glazing properly installed becomes an efficient dehumidifier. Sash windows are the ideal - condensation drains out at the meeting rail gap and at the bottom sash on to the cill and out. Has to be enough of a gap.
> Other window shapes can do the same thing, even a single sheet of glass fitted into a rebate but with no putty on the bottom edge but having the glass sitting on plastic spacers to preserve a gap.
> Another very traditional solution was to have a condensation drip collecting channel at the bottom of the frame with a 1/2" drain pipe to the outside. I did my windows here with same detail but 10mm copper instead of 1/2" lead pipe. Works brilliantly - you can see it working when it's very cold - drips and icicles on the ends of the pipes.


The area where I will be using the machines is a steel frame shed with by-folding doors no chance for windows.


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## Jacob (28 Jan 2021)

stevek said:


> I never tried it myself but Ive heard of people throwing a “sheet” over a motorbike and then sitting a very small heater, like a small tube heater on the floor under it,.....


A single lightbulb could be enough - old sort, not a modern low energy version. Machine just has to be a few degrees warmer than the ambient air in the shed.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

TheTiddles said:


> Magnets sewn into the corners means they stay put too


but to make your mistake a design feature like me you really need to F"*k up LOL Where do you live? I'm Northern Ireland


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## emlclcy (28 Jan 2021)

cjharley said:


> Is there any thing I can do to stop the machined surface from rusting?
> I have recently purchased a mill and a lathe "not out of boxes yet" afraid of destroying them.


i use something called fluid film powerful rust & corrosion protection its lanolin based (spray can)
cheers
carl


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

emlclcy said:


> i use something called fluid film powerful rust & corrosion protection its lanolin based (spray can)
> cheers
> carl


i'm afraid of my new mill and lathe rusting, can't spray but all help is appreciated. What would u recommend for a welding bench spray i could weld on? I am making a Tab and slot bench might go stainless steel? its in a dam environment, my original bench is being cut up to support new working surface.


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## Trainee neophyte (28 Jan 2021)

emlclcy said:


> i use something called fluid film powerful rust & corrosion protection its lanolin based (spray can)
> cheers
> carl


My workshop is too open to the elements to consider heating or insulation, but I do have sheep. I'm seeing possibilities for lanolin based solutions.


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## ivan (28 Jan 2021)

Dehumidifiers for a workshop won't use much electricity - less than half a 500W tubular heater. The heater has a thermostat (I hope), and a dehumidifier has a humidistat, so like the heater, it isn't on all the time. Also, most of the power taken by the dehumidifier ends up as heat - the air coming out is slightly warm - so it can do both jobs. Be careful !! compressor dehumidifiers work best in doors at normal room temperature, not shed freezing! You need a dessicant type which operates well down to freezing and below. Google "which dehumidifier" for an article about the choice.

Lanolin, so blacksheep tells me, is very water resistant so not lifted off the surface by condensation.


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## cjharley (28 Jan 2021)

ivan said:


> Dehumidifiers for a workshop won't use much electricity - less than half a 500W tubular heater. The heater has a thermostat (I hope), and a dehumidifier has a humidistat, so like the heater, it isn't on all the time. Also, most of the power taken by the dehumidifier ends up as heat - the air coming out is slightly warm - so it can do both jobs. Be careful !! compressor dehumidifiers work best in doors at normal room temperature, not shed freezing! You need a dessicant type which operates well down to freezing and below. Google "which dehumidifier" for an article about the choice.
> 
> Lanolin, so blacksheep tells me, is very water resistant so not lifted off the surface by condensation.


i've got a radiator fitted now and insulating it with the foil insulation including getting rid of any air gaps


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## jameskidd (29 Jan 2021)

Oil the surfaces and cover with plastic sheets


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