# LN Vs LV low angle jack plane



## eoinsgaff (5 Jan 2010)

Hey all, 

I'm currently considering one of these LA Jack Planes. The question is which one? Lie Nielsen or Veritas? Anybody got any views?

One of the main reasons I want to get one of these is for shooting/chuting. So, is this Hotdog gadget from Lie Nielsen very useful. It really doesn't seem worth the £40/50 price tag. If I was a wood turner I'd consider making one myself with few grub screws.

Any comments welcome

Eoin


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## gidon (5 Jan 2010)

Unless you're doing a lot of shooting, the thumb depressions on the LV I find sufficient.
I had the LN before I got my LV - both lovely tools - might be worth trying them both out if you can and see which one you prefer.
Cheers
Gidon


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## eoinsgaff (5 Jan 2010)

That simple solution would be perfect except I'd have to fly to the UK to try both out. I'm stuck in the mail order world. 

Of course if I could try the planes in advance I'd probably not buy half the stuff I have.

Eoin


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## Modernist (5 Jan 2010)

I have the LN offering which I like. The main difference is in the method of adjustment with details on their websites. The LN is entirely conventional and, personally, I don't miss more sophisticated adjustments - just fingers and thumbs and the odd tap sideways with a hammer. I use two blades on honed to 30 deg (although this is about to increase to 32 - see elsewhere) and one at 45 which is the one I use the most for difficulot timbers. In this mode the plane excels.


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## Smudger (6 Jan 2010)

I have the LN and it is an excellent tool, very handleable and usable. The cutter keeps its edge well, and I don't have the trouble adjusting it that some have, and my small chubby hands seem to fit it well.
But I hear that the LV is excellent as well. It may come down to aesthetics!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (6 Jan 2010)

The differences between the LN and the Veritas are not minor, but are significant.

First of all, both are essentially based on the Stanley #62. The LN, in LN-tradition, has recreated this plane using better materials and higher tolerances. Nevertheless, they have retained all the same features, for better or worse. (That is not a criticism - we all love LN for their attention to the historic).

Veritas took the basic concept and redesigned the plane. Where the original #62 was essentially the same size (length, width and mass) as a Stanley #5, Veritas have moved it up a notch to a #5 1/2 (not really, but close - the Veritas is longer, wider and heavier). The LN has a 2" wide blade and the Veritas is 2 1/4" wide. While the extra width does not seem much, the extra mass is noticeable, and especially desirable when planing both hardwoods and endgrain.

The Norris-type adjuster on the Veritas is a real adjuster - it moves the blade laterally as well as fore-and-aft. The LN does not move laterally. Not a biggie, however, as I still am apt to fiddle my Veritas with fingers.

But the Veritas has two other improvements that are worth the entry fee: most significantly, the Veritas has a depth stop for the adjustable mouth. This saves the edge of your blade getting slammed, and it enables you to preset and keep the mouth size of your choice. A Big One. 

While on the issue of the mouth adjustment, I really find the LN/Stanley system to be difficult to use - it is sticky and requires two separate adjusters to work. The Veritas is intuitive, simple, easy-to-use. One knob does it all.

The other important improvement in the Veritas is the addition of side set screws. These do two things. Firstly, they provide support for the blade and keep it from moving when you slam into a hard object, such as endgrain on a shooting board. Secondly, they provide a way of returning a newly-sharpened blade back to its previous position. 

I could also point out that the sides of the Veritas are higher than the LN, which translates into better support when used for shooting.

There are two features on the LN that are more endearing than that of the Veritas. The first is that the LN is a prettier plane. It is - no question. Brass and traditional looks. The second is that there has been some controversy over the upright Veritas totes. It is true that these look unaesthetic compared to the traditional Stanley design. But they work very, very well. It is designed to complement a heavier plane that is used on a more modern, higher workbench. If you do not like it, make another - after all you are a woodworker!

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## OPJ (6 Jan 2010)

If it's of any help, I'm sure that at least one member of this forum has made a 'Hot Dog' attachment in recent years... It might have been Derek Cohen, who posted above?


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## woodbloke (6 Jan 2010)

I agree with all that Derek of Oz has said...for my money the LV is the better tool, which is why I use one and a BU smoother and a try plane...all essentially the same plane with different length soles - Rob


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## Alf (6 Jan 2010)

Examples of both reside here at Alf Towers - the Veritas is not a looker like the LN, but it's the better plane imo and designed with shooting in mind. For the LN shooter you'd be looking at the #9, which is obviously a more specialist tool.


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## PAC1 (6 Jan 2010)

I agree with all Derek has said. BUT when I went and tried them side by side I preferred the LN in actual use. I think it was to do with the angle of the handle but was not certain. It might just be a personal preference thing. I bought the LN. 
As for the Hot Dog they are easy to make. I followed Derek's website instructions. The critical dimension is the thickness of the packer to make the slot.


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## woodbloke (6 Jan 2010)

PAC1":1trp8n35 said:


> I agree with all Derek has said. BUT when I went and tried them side by side I preferred the LN in actual use. I think it was to do with the angle of the handle but was not certain. It might just be a personal preference thing. I bought the LN.


As ever...try before you buy :wink: - Rob


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## Mr Ed (6 Jan 2010)

I remember reading somewhere that the mouth was further back on the Veritas than the Stanley original, thereby giving a larger registration area at the start of the cut.

Ed


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## eoinsgaff (6 Jan 2010)

Thanks very much to everyone so far. A special thanks to Derek for that detailed answer which has convinced me that the LV plane is the better option for me - I like a good looking plane but use is first off. 

Hopefully my fat hands will fit the LV tote comfortably. I've noticed a mixed view on this tote and it would be interesting to examine if there is a common denominator with those who like and those who dislike this LV handle - hand size, age, artritis, etc??? :? . 

I've feeling this might run on for a while longer so I'll hold off for a while before making a final decision. I'm sure some one has a strong opinion on the LN version.

Eoin


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## PAC1 (6 Jan 2010)

Eoin 

I am not sure the handle angle debate will ever be over. I think it is as much to do with bench height and planing stand that you adopt as anything else. As has been suggested if you do not like the angle of the Veritas handle make a new one with the traditional hand angle whilst you are making the Hot Dog. I had read Derek's website review before I bought mine and went intending to buy the Veritas but came back with the LN! 
For me there was just something about the LN in use that I liked, it may have been weight or balance or the handle position or many things but it is personal choice. I am not saying the LN is better or vise versa my advice is try before you buy. If it were me I would book a cheap flight in the sales and arrange to test drive both planes with the supplier of your choice or come over to one of the exhibitions where you can try them out.


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## daver828 (9 Jan 2010)

eoinsgaff":1gtt8muu said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm currently considering one of these LA Jack Planes. The question is which one? Lie Nielsen or Veritas? Anybody got any views?
> 
> ...



If what you're looking for is a shooting plane, I'd like to suggest you give Phil Edwards a look http://www.phillyplanes.co.uk/. He makes a wonderful miter plane, either with a straight blade or skewed. Great person to work with, very generous.


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## Kalimna (9 Jan 2010)

For what it's worth, I have the Veritas plane, and find the tote very comfortable to use. Ok, so it isn't as pretty to look at, but it seems to fit my largish hands really quite well.

I also have a LN 5 1/2, which is also comfortable, but possibly a gnats fart less so than the Veritas. I don't know if the tote is the same as on a LA tho.

As Derek said, I find the adjustment possible with the Veritas of an excellent design too.

My tuppence worth,
Adam

P.s. It's flippin well snowing again! Over a layer of darned well near sheet ice. Grrrr!


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## Anonymous (9 Jan 2010)

eoinsgaff":204o75h8 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm currently considering one of these LA Jack Planes. The question is which one? Lie Nielsen or Veritas? Anybody got any views?
> 
> ...



I am a big fan of LN planes and current;y own more than a dozen. However, I sold on my LN low angle planes in preference to LV as they are heavier and do not 'skip' on the wood as much.

For bevel down buy LN, for bevel up buy LV.


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## Benchwayze (10 Jan 2010)

I found the Lie Nielsen No 4 bedrock to be very comfortable to hold, and the tote suited me fine. It was just a tad heavy for me. Does anyone know if the bronze version (which is what I had) is heavier than the cast version?

John


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## woodbloke (10 Jan 2010)

Tony":1ee4vvmz said:


> For bevel down buy LN, for bevel up buy LV.


I think that's pretty much a consensus view, but as has been said, it's always worth trying out each denomination before you buy - Rob


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## Alf (10 Jan 2010)

Benchwayze":2t7oc21a said:


> I found the Lie Nielsen No 4 bedrock to be very comfortable to hold, and the tote suited me fine. It was just a tad heavy for me. Does anyone know if the bronze version (which is what I had) is heavier than the cast version?


Yes, it is - from the horse's mouth.


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## Benchwayze (10 Jan 2010)

Alf":256tsqdj said:


> Benchwayze":256tsqdj said:
> 
> 
> > I found the Lie Nielsen No 4 bedrock to be very comfortable to hold, and the tote suited me fine. It was just a tad heavy for me. Does anyone know if the bronze version (which is what I had) is heavier than the cast version?
> ...



Thanks Alf... You saved me the trouble... I had considered checking with Axminster AIH, as I believe they include that spec too! So, I am obliged. John


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## eoinsgaff (13 Jan 2010)

So, it looks like the LV for me. 

Dieter Schmid is the cheapest so far for me - exchange rate and shipping included. No import either to worry about. I've compared Dieter with Axminster, Classic Hand Tools, Rutlands and Dick Gmbh. Tilgear don't stock the LV planes.

Direct from Lee Valley was the cheapest but there,s the considerable risk of import duty.

Shipping was very reasonable from Dieter Schmid. 

Must convince myself I urgently need one now.

Eoin


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## woodbloke (14 Jan 2010)

eoinsgaff":1ag5o8tq said:


> So, it looks like the LV for me.
> 
> Dieter Schmid is the cheapest so far for me - exchange rate and shipping included. No import either to worry about. I've compared Dieter with Axminster, Classic Hand Tools, Rutlands and Dick Gmbh. Tilgear don't stock the LV planes.
> 
> ...


Have you tried here? A while ago they were the cheapest source by far for Veritas stuff in the UK - Rob


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## Martin Cash (14 Jan 2010)

I am a bit late to this discussion but agree with most of what has been posted re the Veritas. I have tried both and find that where it counts, the Veritas is ahead. One thing that irks me about the LN is the difficulty I have with my large hands/fingers of using the little depth adjuster. Now it may also be a lack of dexterity but I doubt it. It is difficult for me to grip and rotate, has no lateral adjustment, and is its least likeable feature. Its handle on the other hand is pure silk.
Cheers
MC


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2010)

On my LN Low-Angle Jack, I have to loosen the lever cap nut to adjust the blade protrusion. Also it is fiddly to reach, and my fingers are not exactly sausage shaped! But the plane cuts like a dream and as said, the handle is ultra-comfortable. 

Regards
John


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## Martin Cash (14 Jan 2010)

Here is a LV LA Jack for sale if you are interested:
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=129900
Cheers
MC


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2010)

Thanks Martin... I'd probably get caught by customs and excise though; like when I bought my LN No. 4 Bedrock. 

I had an LV No 6, but I couldn't get on with the tote. I could have changed it, I know, but I sold it on. But yes it was a decent cutting plane!.

John


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