# Firm Fixings in a Plasterboard Wall?



## MayKitt (21 Apr 2021)

I am trying to fix the final run of a Mopstick handrail up a half-turn staircase. I am using the standard Mopstick brackets. All the rail is in place, with sound fixings, save the last 1.5m (approx). This final run has to be fixed on an existing studwork wall, The studwork also serves as the route for cables from the ground floor to the first floor. The rail is 880mm above the height of the treads below. I have been able to get a firm fixing through to a stud at the upper end but not at the lower end.

At the lower end, all my investigations have failed to find a stud or noggin, in a suitable place. Is there a means of attaching the Mopstick brackets through the plasterboard to give a fixing that I could be confident enough with so as to use it as a handrail?

Solutions, thoughts, and experiences would be most welcome!


----------



## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

MayKitt said:


> I am trying to fix the final run of a Mopstick handrail up a half-turn staircase. I am using the standard Mopstick brackets. All the rail is in place, with sound fixings, save the last 1.5m (approx). This final run has to be fixed on an existing studwork wall, The studwork also serves as the route for cables from the ground floor to the first floor. The rail is 880mm above the height of the treads below. I have been able to get a firm fixing through to a stud at the upper end but not at the lower end.
> 
> At the lower end, all my investigations have failed to find a stud or noggin, in a suitable place. Is there a means of attaching the Mopstick brackets through the plasterboard to give a fixing that I could be confident enough with so as to use it as a handrail?
> 
> Solutions, thoughts, and experiences would be most welcome!


Well I’m sure you know there are lots of products that claim the Earth, but that could potentially have a lot of force put onto it. I think if it was me and I wanted to be really sure of it, I would cut a slit into the plasterboard somewhere above and slide a length of 18mm ply to the desired spot and screw into that, (I didn’t say it would be easy) you would probably need to use a very long screw initially to pull the plywood against the back of the plasterboard by hand. Ian


----------



## Ozi (21 Apr 2021)

In a similar situation fixing a hand rail when mum was getting a bit frail I cut out plasterboard to fit a noggin then decided to fit 3 noggins the top and bottom ones only lightly attached half under the existing plasterboard to support the infilling plasterboard, ended up skimming an area about 9" by 16". It was a bit of a faff but with a hand rail you don't want to take chances.


----------



## RichardG (21 Apr 2021)

Geefix are the strongest fixings I have found for plasterboard but I wouldn’t use them on a handrail, Ozi‘s answer is the way to go. It sounds awful but doesn’t take that long and with a quick dry plaster you can do it in a few hours.

.


----------



## MayKitt (21 Apr 2021)

Thanks for the replies and advice.



Cabinetman said:


> I think if it was me and I wanted to be really sure of it, I would cut a slit into the plasterboard somewhere above and slide a length of 18mm ply to the desired spot and screw into that, (I didn’t say it would be easy) you would probably need to use a very long screw initially to pull the plywood against the back of the plasterboard by hand. Ian



Would the addition of an adhesive to the plywood help locate it or am I getting the wrong idea? Does the plywood have to have a fairly snug fit between the studs?



Ozi said:


> In a similar situation fixing a hand rail when mum was getting a bit frail I cut out plasterboard to fit a noggin then decided to fit 3 noggins the top and bottom ones only lightly attached half under the existing plasterboard to support the infilling plasterboard, ended up skimming an area about 9" by 16". It was a bit of a faff but with a hand rail you don't want to take chances.



With this method, how easy is it to fit the first noggin? I'm guessing your aperture was cut sufficiently wide to get good access to the point where the noggin met the stud so that you could get a nail or screw it in place?


----------



## Spectric (21 Apr 2021)

Cabinet man has the right idea, any other method would just be a point load on the plasterboard wheras backing it will spread the load. If you have any doubt then going the whole hog like Ozi would be a really strong solution but more mess and repair of the wall.


----------



## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

MayKitt said:


> Thanks for the replies and advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 No adhesive needed really you’re just relying on the plasterboard being the meat in the sandwich between the ply and handrail, You could if you wanted to screw through the plasterboard into the plywood just hold it in place which isn’t really necessary, you would be really surprised how strong this method can be and of course you only have one slit to then repair. Ian


----------



## MayKitt (21 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> No adhesive needed really you’re just relying on the plasterboard being the meat in the sandwich between the ply and handrail,



...so the ply spreads the load of the rail bracket fastenings? I guess that a decent-sized slit is needed to 'post' the ply, at an angle, through the plasterboard? The long screw presumably is pre-fixed at the top of the ply and it pokes out through the slit? I guess you must be able to but driving a screw into the ply, which is just being hand-held by the screw must be difficult? ...or am I missing something?!


----------



## mikej460 (21 Apr 2021)

I hung all our new kitchen wall cupboards and shelving onto stud walls with these

Fischer Self-Drill Plasterboard Fixings Metal 35mm 100 Pack | Self Drills | Screwfix.com

they've never moved in over 4 years


----------



## okeydokey (21 Apr 2021)

Getting plywood behind where the bracket will be fixed seems best so that the load being pulled by hand pressure in any direction on the handrail will be spread. Perhaps make a rectangular hole big enough to get your hand in to say the right of the fixing point - eight or more inches away will (this all depends on how much space there is between the plaster board facing you and whatever is behind) insert as large a section of ply (or skirting board/softwood suchlike) as you can and hold it in position then with your other hand drill a pilot hole through the plasterboard and the ply then you will be able to screw into the plasterboard and (ply) wood to hold it in position. And then drill pilot holes through (plasterboard and plywood) where the brackets will be fitted then screw the brackets into the ply/other wood as final fixing. Then place some softwood inside and across your cutout hole, glue it to the plasterboard and when thats set, replace the bit you cut out (glue it to that batten) and make good the edges around the cut out. Sounds alright in principle hope it works in practice.


----------



## Ozi (21 Apr 2021)

MayKitt said:


> Thanks for the replies and advice.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Reasonably easy, I pre-drilled the noggin to fit two angled screws at each end so had all 4 in place as it went into the hole, then just a matter of driving them home. The upper and lower noggins were just there to support the plaster board so only had one screw at each end.


----------



## Ozi (21 Apr 2021)

mikej460 said:


> I hung all our new kitchen wall cupboards and shelving onto stud walls with these
> 
> Fischer Self-Drill Plasterboard Fixings Metal 35mm 100 Pack | Self Drills | Screwfix.com
> 
> they've never moved in over 4 years


I have used the same fixings and agree they are good but I would not trust trust them on a handrail where the load is cyclical.


----------



## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

I must admit to being slightly confused/mistaken I thought we were dealing with a pigs ear handrail but it should still work with metal brackets. No the long screw is as follows, post the ply through the slot probably with a bit of string on it so that you don’t drop it and then the long screw is to go through the plasterboard and hit the plywood somewhere at the bottom so you can then pull the plywood towards you onto the back of the plasterboard to enable you to screw the bracket through and into the plywood, and then as okey-dokey said. Ian


----------



## TRITON (21 Apr 2021)

Possibly look to fix the handrail mount first to a wide piece of timber or ply, and attach that to the board. The smal section of the original mount is close together, so theres a tendency to rip out which you are worried about, but spread the load across a wider area, it i think will offer more support and make the attachment more robust and less likely to tear through.

But also is the handrail not supported by the rest of the fixings,which are into solid timber, or is this piece a separate section. If its part of the whole, the rest of the fixings and mounts are taking the majority of the weight/strain, and its only one short section thats not


----------



## Sachakins (21 Apr 2021)

I think for piece of mind, and have done myself, would open up stud wall, attach noggins to studs or fit extra studs, and make good the plaster work and any decor, every other solution has a good possibility of being OK. But for me that also means the possibility of not being ok, so extra studwork was my route. (Same as Ozi)


----------



## Dlyxover (21 Apr 2021)

I've had good luck with grip-it fixings


----------



## glenfield2 (22 Apr 2021)

Sachakins said:


> I think for piece of mind, and have done myself, would open up stud wall, attach noggins to studs or fit extra studs, and make good the plaster work and any decor, every other solution has a good possibility of being OK. But for me that also means the possibility of not being ok, so extra studwork was my route. (Same as Ozi)


I would go that way too - often what seems the most radical solution because it’s out of our comfort zone is actually the easiest and best. Invisibly re-skimming a plasterboard patch Is a doddle for a decent plasterer.


----------



## Ozi (22 Apr 2021)

Not claiming to be a decent plasterer I cut the hole to a size where I could run opposite corners of the float across the original plaster, then you really are just filling a hole rather than re-plastering may be only psychological but it seemed easier


----------



## Dazed (22 Apr 2021)

Sometimes shortcuts work, sometimes not. It's different doing it for yourself and when you're being paid.

DIY - time isn't so important, so maybe try a shortcut, but be prepared for a longer job than it would have been if you'd taken the more robust route to begin with.
Trade - then fiddling about trying to minimise perceived disruption nearly always worked out more expensive in the long run.

If you start out with everything in place beforehand knowing what you're going to do then it really doesn't take nearly as long as you think it will. Paint, plaster/easyfill, plasterboard, noggins, studs etc.
Steve


----------



## mikej460 (22 Apr 2021)

If you plumb for the noggin solution then you could carefully cut out or core drill the hole(s), fit the noggins then refit the cut-out plasterboard with builders adhesive (onto noggin plasterboard face and also plasterboard joints) followed by a thin line of filler in the joint gaps. I've used this technique many times as I'm a rubbish plasterer.


----------



## Garden Shed Projects (22 Apr 2021)

I would agree that the best and safest method for fixing a handrail is a ply wood patress behind the plasterboard and screw through. There are number of good plasterboard fixing solutions out there rated with high loading's but a handrail has an ever changing load depending on who uses it and how. This has the potential to introduce movement and once you have lost the integrity of the fixing in the board it can fail, more often than not when its needed the most. I would definitely bite the bullet and install a patress behind.


----------



## owen (22 Apr 2021)

If you don't want to do any plastering repairs, then why not fix a long piece of wood the whole length of the wall fixed to each stud and grip filled on too, then fix the handrail brackets to that? Obviously if space is limited it might make the stairs a bit tighter.


----------



## Garden Shed Projects (22 Apr 2021)

owen said:


> If you don't want to do any plastering repairs, then why not fix a long piece of wood the whole length of the wall fixed to each stud and grip filled on too, then fix the handrail brackets to that? Obviously if space is limited it might make the stairs a bit tighter.


Also good idea


----------



## richard.selwyn (22 Apr 2021)

As has been suggested above, I usually back the plasterboard with a piece of ply. I just cut out a decent sized, convenient square between studs, then insert a piece of ply bigger than the hole, held in place with a couple of drywall screws. Then screw the piece of plasterboard onto the ply, tape and skim.
I cannot plaster with traditional British plaster, but have plastered many rooms using the tape and skim method like the Americans and continentals do. It is easy to get a good finish as you can use multiple thin coats and sand between coats. It's much easier than just cutting a slot and with good jointing tape and compound it is easy to get a good finish.

Cut the hole with something like this: Minotaur Jab Saw 6"
Cover the cuts with self adhesive fibreglass mesh tape, something like this: Diall Fibreglass Mesh Tape White 90m x 50mm
then use several coats of something like this: Knauf Joint Filler Premium - 10kg | Wickes.co.uk 
You can use ready mixed, but it tends to be a bit sloppy. When everything is back to how it was, screw your handrail into the ply through the plasterboard.
I am pleased to have learnt a new word today from Garden Shed Projects - patress. 

If you really want a good finish you need one of these , it will drive you insane as well as bankrupt you:
Surface control light STL 450 240V SYSLITE


----------



## Rorschach (22 Apr 2021)

Plasterboard with a good fixing is far stronger than most people give it credit for, but I would never trust it for something like a handrail where I may need to literally trust my life to it. Do it properly and get some plywood in there attached to the studs, could be a good use for pocket hole screws (plenty of them)?


----------



## Fergie 307 (22 Apr 2021)

A technique I have used successfully is to get a dot and dab plasterboard adhesive gun. Make a suitable hole in the board and then use the gun to deposit a big lump of adhesive into the gap between the board and whatever is behind it. You need a fairly solid mix so it stays put, and doesn't just dribble down inside. If the gap is big then you can build it up a layer at a time. Once it has set you have a solid mass to fix into.


----------

