# New Handles for Old....



## Philly (21 Sep 2006)

Hi Folks
Been kinda busy in the 'shop making replacement handles for a couple of back saws. Inspired by recent discussion (and "The Wenz" super-saws) I thought I would "upgrade" a couple of half decent tenon saws I picked up at second hand shops.





The smaller one is Black Walnut, the larger Maple. It was fairly easy work, copying most of the details from the existing handles makes life straight-forward.




As you can see, the old handles were not exactly "works-of-art" so it was worth the effort. And they feel SO much better to use.
So do have a go yourself, you can use up those interesting off-cuts you've been hoarding :wink: 
Cheers
Philly


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## Anonymous (21 Sep 2006)

HOW DO YOU WORK SO QUICKLY????????????

More great work and by the look of it well worth the effort. And you haven't mentioned the cyclone yet :wink:


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## MikeW (21 Sep 2006)

Tony":2c30o4u3 said:


> HOW DO YOU WORK SO QUICKLY????????????


Ain't that the truth! Puts me to shame. And I don't even have a real job  

Take care, Mike


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (22 Sep 2006)

Hey, nice one Philly. The handles really look comfortable - no straights or edges.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Frank D. (22 Sep 2006)

Oooh,
Saw fever over here in the UK for sure. Nice job Philly!


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## Paul Chapman (22 Sep 2006)

Really nice, Phil =D> =D> 

Paul (who won't mention the cyclone in case your wife's listening 8-[ 8-[ )


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## Philly (22 Sep 2006)

Thanks Chaps! It was a fun little project.
Thanks for not mentioning the Cyclone, too :lol: 
Cheers
Philly  
P.s. And Mike-"not got a real job"? Who you kidding Sawmeister :wink:


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## Chris Knight (22 Sep 2006)

Philly,
It is disgusting - the way you shame the rest of us. Fortunately, I can at least claim I have no need of saw handles or a cyclone (I only have decent new saws and have no space for a cyclone :wink


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## whybob71 (22 Sep 2006)

They are very nice!!!  

I did the same with some of my old and new saws. This is the last I made. The saw is a Crown DT, the wood is bubinga


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## Paul Chapman (22 Sep 2006)

Blimey, everyone's at it :lol: Very nice, whybob =D> 

Paul


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## Ian Dalziel (22 Sep 2006)

I noticed youve gone for open handles designs, :? any particular reason or just asthetics....nice job...

when are you starting your first infill  

I


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## Alf (22 Sep 2006)

Ian Dalziel":nqjbmdw8 said:


> I noticed youve gone for open handles designs, :? any particular reason or just asthetics....


Easier to do? :lol: Cynical, moi?  

Nice job, Philly. =D> Sigh, I have a sudden desire to make another saw handle now, dammit. ](*,)

Cheers, Alf


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## GEPPETTO (22 Sep 2006)

Hi Why,
it's a very accurate job  .

chaps how many jobs you intrigue me to do in the future :lol:

Cheers, Gabriele :wink:


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## Pete W (22 Sep 2006)

GEPPETTO":34vroma6 said:


> how many jobs you intrigue me to do



Poetically put, and a phrase that should be carved above the door of every workshop, I think


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## whybob71 (22 Sep 2006)

I have made both open and close pistol grip handles; usually I prefere open handles for 8"-10" saws and close handles for longer saw; indeed, it's easier to make them open style.


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## MikeW (22 Sep 2006)

whybob71":13vperve said:


> I have made both open and close pistol grip handles; usually I prefere open handles for 8"-10" saws and close handles for longer saw; indeed, it's easier to make them open style.


Well, I wasn't going to post in this thread. I was going to start another and found Phil's...but as long as others have and the mention of closed handles on longer saws...

Here's the Kenyon sash from the Seaton chest...14", 13 ppi rip, German Beech...











Take care, Mike


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## engineer one (22 Sep 2006)

gosh darn who to swear at first philly for doing the handles so 
quickly, or you mike for making them so nicely on a sort of
production basis #-o ](*,) 

how do you find the time either of you? and i've even seen philly's 
workshop :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## Colin C (22 Sep 2006)

MikeW 
Dont start me off again :roll: :wink: 
As people are posting pic's of they saw handles ( hopeing Philly does not mind  )
Here is one I did a few months ago, after Alf's


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## Evergreen (22 Sep 2006)

Hi Guys 

Can I ask a really basic, muppet-type question, please? 

Can you use a saw to cut the kerf in its own new handle? What I mean is that I've only got one backsaw and if I use that to cut the kerf in a new handle for it, won't it be too wide? 

I don't have a band saw and the only saw I've got that's really thin is a Japanese pullsaw which is probably too thin! 

My backsaw is made by Slack, Sellars & Co and is currently fitted with a very naff 1970s handle. You know the type, when everyone was trying to be "modern". 

I'm very impressed with these beautiful traditional handles that you guys have made and I'm getting inspired to have a go myself! 

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## MikeW (22 Sep 2006)

> Can you use a saw to cut the kerf in its own new handle? What I mean is that I've only got one backsaw and if I use that to cut the kerf in a new handle for it, won't it be too wide?


Yes...and yes.

You can take the set, or nearly all of it, out of the blade and use it. Without out doing so, yes, it'll be wider than you probably need.

I would measure the thickness of the saw blade destined for a new handle, as well as the amount of set, using a dial caliper and then check the Japanese saw.

One issue would be removing some of the present set, or rather the means to do so. If the set is very wide, stoning it out will only serve to narrow the teeth to the point of being weak. If you can do the following, it works well.

If you have a good machinists vise with smooth jaws--which you can make yourself--and close evenly top to bottom, side to side, you can use it to lessen the set very evenly. 

You then take a thin sheet of paper, maybe newsprint, measure it and if it is only a couple thousandths thick you can drape it over the teeth so that there is only one layer up the sides and tape it in place. Place the toothline about in the center of the jaws and crank it down. The tip of the teeth will "bite" through the paper, but the paper on the sides of the saw will prevent the teeth from being bent further than the thickness of the paper. Loosen the vise, move the saw and repeat. You may have to do this a couple times as the teeth will spring back a little.

btw, one can do this with a saw you find in the wild which has too much set. It is a low-threat way to lessen the set as most likely the teeth will not brake in this manner--unless the set is really heavy.

Anyway, scribe the center line using a marking gauge from one side making sure it is nearly centered. Mark again from the other side and when you saw, saw between them. In fact, we usually mark shy of the center from both sides so we can always see the line on both sides as we saw.

Also, after you cut out the blank for the handle, bring the blank down to almost the proper thickness, but not all the way. That way if the kerf is a little to one side you can sand or otherwise take some of the thickness from the thick side and the blade kerf will then be centered, or nearly so.

Saw slow and watch the lines on both ends of the saw. Hard to correct once it goes awry.

Take care, Mike


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## MikeW (22 Sep 2006)

Colin C":3v94lcit said:


> MikeW
> Dont start me off again :roll: :wink:
> As people are posting pic's of they saw handles ( hopeing Philly does not mind  )
> Here is one I did a few months ago, after Alf's


Wonderful, Colin! Simply beautiful.

I love notches at the bottom bridge. Sets them off in a nice way. What kind of wood?

Take care, Mike


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## Colin C (22 Sep 2006)

Thanks Mike

I take that means you like it , I also did have a few for inspiration ( from you that is ) :roll: .

Before I forget #-o , the wood is some old walnut from an old dresser top ( well part of it ).


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## Paul Chapman (22 Sep 2006)

Great handle, Colin 8) 8) 

Paul


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## Colin C (22 Sep 2006)

I am glad I did it as it is ssooo comfortable, I wll do it to other handles if they are not like that


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## Philly (22 Sep 2006)

Way-hey! It's handle crazy round here :lol: 
Mike-awesome! You are indeed the Master [-o< 
Cheers
Philly


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## Evergreen (22 Sep 2006)

Mike

That's brilliant advice. Many thanks. 

Somewhere I've got a small offcut of what I believe is real Cuban mahogany which just might be big enough.....

Regards.


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## Colin C (22 Sep 2006)

Evergreen":2c8v6xtf said:


> Somewhere I've got a small offcut of what I believe is real Cuban mahogany which just might be big enough.....
> 
> Regards.



If it is you are a very lucky man as it is very nice to use and I have some small bits left from some jobs I have done 8-[


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (23 Sep 2006)

> You can take the set, or nearly all of it, out of the blade .....



Soo ... you don't advise using an angle grinder for this task then ? :shock: 

Seriously Mike, that is a simply _wonderful_ tip! 

Regards from Perth

Derek (resisting the urge to post more saw handles)


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## MikeW (23 Sep 2006)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > You can take the set, or nearly all of it, out of the blade .....
> 
> 
> Soo ... you don't advise using an angle grinder for this task then ? :shock:


Nah, everyone knows one shold use a stationary belt sander!

It's an old practice. I probably learned it from my grandfather or great uncle. I know Harry Strasil does the same/similar thing iirc.

It's kind of a good way to ensure a fairly accurate set. I've used various paper to achieve different sets before. The big give a heck is that the vise jaws close evenly. A lot of modern vises I've seen don't. And it's important to squeeze slowly. And of course, don't try it on a really old saw nor one you are not prepared to redo teeth if more than one or two bust. Those are disclaimers, of course. I have not ever had one snap.

Oh, Evergreen...Cuban! Wonderful wood. None like it, really. It's been years since I played with any. I can remember oiling and polishing my first box I made from some off-cuts that came from an older cabinet maker. Ah, memories.

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (23 Sep 2006)

MikeW":1iy5m08e said:


> lots of useful stuff


But what he meant to say was _this_ is exactly why you need a wide range of saws from which to choose - none of that fiddling about with set when you can just try a different saw... :wink: 

Possibly a good time to mention (again) a tip for cutting the kerf if you're as inaccurate with a back saw as I am. Clamp your designated kerf-cutting saw on a spacer on a flat surface so the kerf comes at the mid point of your blank. Push blank to and fro while sliding along flat surface and your kerf is automatically centred and straight. For the purposes of the demo the handle blank is an off-cut with directional arrows drawn on it, but you get the gist. :wink:











Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (23 Sep 2006)

Great tip, Alf - often wondered how those slots always came out so perfectly :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (23 Sep 2006)

Alf":1yw6z50e said:


> Possibly a good time to mention (again) a tip for cutting the kerf if you're as inaccurate with a back saw as I am. Clamp your designated kerf-cutting saw on a spacer on a flat surface so the kerf comes at the mid point of your blank. Push blank to and fro while sliding along flat surface and your kerf is automatically centred and straight. For the purposes of the demo the handle blank is an off-cut with directional arrows drawn on it, but you get the gist. :wink:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



Excellent technique Alf, That tip should go in the top tip book.  8)


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## Anonymous (23 Sep 2006)

Lovely tip Alf. Might make meself a handle soon :wink:


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## MikeW (23 Sep 2006)

Alf":2g1nsxro said:


> MikeW":2g1nsxro said:
> 
> 
> > lots of useful stuff
> ...


Dang, I knew I forgot something!

But then, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Take care, Mike


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## Evergreen (23 Sep 2006)

Oooooo, I like that tip, Alf, because it's (virtually) foolproof. 

When it comes to sawing to a line, I definitely have my good days and my bad days. Trouble is, I don't know which kind of day it's going to be in advance! 

Regards.


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## engineer one (23 Sep 2006)

mike you must make up your mind, we need to understand whether 
you deal with bears, chickens , pizza, or beer, this is getting really
confusing :lol:  ccasion5: 

alf now why did i not get taught that at school??? :? 

shame we can't cut all our wood that way :twisted:

paul :wink:


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## Philly (23 Sep 2006)

Paul
You kinda can-it's called the tablesaw :twisted: 
Philly


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## MikeW (23 Sep 2006)

Philly":e0ff2yik said:


> Paul
> You kinda can-it's called the tablesaw :twisted:
> Philly


Or a bandsaw.

Actually, if the kerf is from .030" to .045" for the saw blade to fit, I have BS blades to cut those kerfs. But I also cheat and use a vertical mill for those less than .030". At least to establish it. They are finished off--what the sized slotting cutters cannot reach--with a handsaw.


> you must make up your mind, we need to understand whether
> you deal with bears, chickens , pizza, or beer, this is getting really
> confusing


Hmm. I see how it could be confusing. Worse yet, I recently dealt with a beer drinking bear which ate a chicken after it pecked at the pizza...

Take care, Mike


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## engineer one (23 Sep 2006)

and you guys expect us quiet englishmen to travel to the wilds
of seattle?????? :lol: :lol: 

actually it brings a whole new meaning to healthy eating plans 
i guess :lol: :? kind of reminds me of the old burl ives song about
the old lady who swallowed a fly, etc :roll: :roll: 

phil, using a table saw yes, but surely that means reducing or removing
the riving knife????????? :twisted: or of course doing what bean has
and reduce the riving knife height.

paul :wink:


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## bugbear (25 Sep 2006)

Alf":3i305vmn said:


> MikeW":3i305vmn said:
> 
> 
> > lots of useful stuff
> ...



It is rather important that the spacer is parallel 

Good tip! I made a rather fiddly variation on a scratch stock - sort of a plough plane, but with a 1" section of saw for a blade. I have various scraps of saw with varying teeth and set to make varying slots.

But your way is easier (*) - although I think some care would be required in use, since there appears to be a risk of cutting your hands on the saw blade.

BugBear

(*) although my way involves accumulating more tools


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## Alf (25 Sep 2006)

bugbear":1dtvwyp0 said:


> - although I think some care would be required in use, since there appears to be a risk of cutting your hands on the saw blade.


Guards removed for clarity...? 8-[ But no, it doesn't pay to lose concentration or let your grip on the blank slip. Really it's just a way of getting the kerf off to a straight start. Unless you want to be there all day the majority is done the old fashioned way.

Anyway, a plauge on all your houses, you handle-making maniacs - especially Mike's relentless posting of droolworthy Seaton/Kenyon saws. [-X Got the itch to do one myself, didn't I? ](*,) S'not exactly the same, 'cos I'm not good enough to get it right from the photos, but "on a theme by John Kenyon" if you will:












Beech left over from the chair, BLO and Adam's wax polish to finish. Bit of an idiocyncratic shape in the end, but comfy. Of course I don't actually want a 6 point saw, but that's not the point...  

Cheers, Alf


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (25 Sep 2006)

That is stunning Alf. 

Regards from Perth

Derek (who would rather be making a mitre saw handle than reorganising the workshop to fit in a new dust collection system).


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## Colin C (25 Sep 2006)

Now Alf
I have to say that is very nice =D> , almost makes me want to start using more panel saws :roll: :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (25 Sep 2006)

WOW, Alf :shock: :shock: You're getting very good at this saw handle stuff =D> =D> =D> 

Paul


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## engineer one (25 Sep 2006)

well alf you are bringing a whole new level to the gloat factor. :lol: 

what a way to use up scraps. =D> 

hope the saw works as well as the handle

paul :wink:


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## Johnboy (25 Sep 2006)

Wow Alf, that's stunning. As you can file saws too why aren't you making them for sale? About time Mike had some competition.

John


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## Philly (25 Sep 2006)

Hmm-top job Al! =D> 
Tempted to have another go now........
Philly :roll:


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## MikeW (25 Sep 2006)

> Anyway, a plauge on all your houses, you handle-making maniacs - especially Mike's relentless posting of droolworthy Seaton/Kenyon saws. Got the itch to do one myself, didn't I?


I feel plagued this morning...now I know why. Oh what will my children do without their father? And the Mrs?

I do try to restrain myself to just a couple postings, once in a while. 'Onest I do :lol: 

Well done, Alf! And we all know, when ya got an itch, ya gotta scratch it...


> Wow Alf, that's stunning. As you can file saws too why aren't you making them for sale?


I think that's a good thought myself. Isn't there a person who refurbs planes and such there for resale? Seems saws could be a better avenue, especially the backsaws...

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (25 Sep 2006)

MikeW":38mvi9th said:


> I feel plagued this morning...now I know why.


You didn't feel at all plagued over the weekend? Tsk, I'm losing my touch... :wink: 



Johnboy":38mvi9th said:


> Wow Alf, that's stunning. As you can file saws too why aren't you making them for sale?


Well it's a nice compliment, but given how long it takes me to make a handle and the whole minimum wage thing - would anyone really want to spend all that on a saw...?  :lol: Mike earns his crust twice over, IMO.  

Funny thing though; I was coming round to thinking the best way to achieve the "wow factor" with tools is to use exotics, but something about the unstained beech is just gorgeous. Begs the question, why are old beech saw handles invariably stained? 

Cheers, Alf


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## MikeW (25 Sep 2006)

Alf":3ea5sc2k said:


> ... but something about the unstained beech is just gorgeous. Begs the question, why are old beech saw handles invariably stained?


Same with many of the makers who used Apple--it's gorgeous wood. But that is like most woods. They stand on their own I feel.

I think I read somewhere the reason for the staining was for consistency of appearance.

But some makers like George Bishop left their Apple handles natural. As far as I know, though, all US makers stained their Beech saw handles, and most planes made from Beech, but not all. I suspect it was the same in Britain. I've seen many Yellow Birch planes over the years I don't think were ever stained.

Things change. I too like the look of the Beech. And it does "brown up" or richen nicely over time.

Take care, Mike
who is probably making minimum wage...


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## Chris Knight (25 Sep 2006)

Alf,
That is really great! I am so glad that I have the excuse that I am back in the workforce to explain why I am not keeping up with you and your prodigious output.


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## dedee (25 Sep 2006)

Alf, very nice.
I beginning to wonder if my nice sharpe saws deserve some new 'andles :lol:


Andy


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## Ian Dalziel (25 Sep 2006)

Ahhh all these saw handles....i really need another saw..i really need another saw.... :lol: 


Alf you'll be making planes next :shock: 


I


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## Evergreen (26 Sep 2006)

Alf 

That's pretty impressive - in particular, the beech looks warm and clean. 

In answer to your question, I can only guess that misguided assumptions about "exclusiveness" and "quality" led to that tendency to slop a mahogany-ish stain or varnish over beech saw handles in the past. 

BTW, those handle screws look new - can I ask where you got them, please? 
I've tried getting the handle off my backsaw and the screw with the medallion just won't shift. I going to have to do it a serious mischief if I'm ever to remove it. Also, the existing screws aren't very attractive in the first place. 

Regards.


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## Colin C (26 Sep 2006)

Evergreen":1hfu1tl6 said:


> Alf
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Evergreen
To get the screws to move, try some heat with some like a soldering iron or a good iron on hot and let it cool down before you start to try and remove them  
I hope this helps


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## Alf (26 Sep 2006)

Unfortunately the screws were being sold off by Axminster as they no longer stock them. Wish I'd bought more... But I notice Rutlands are stocking the Roberts & Lee ones now.

Mmm, I suppose uniformity of appearance would explain a lot, and the snobbery about making beech look like something else for handles still continues now, doesn't it? Heigh ho.

Cheers, Alf


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## Evergreen (26 Sep 2006)

Colin 

Thanks for the advice. I'll give the heat treatment a go. If that fails, it'll be the hacksaw next! 

Alf 

Thanks for the link. 

Regards.


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