# Stanley No. 5½ planes



## Vann (27 Nov 2012)

With (obviously) too much time on my hands, I've been thinking about Stanley No.5½ planes :-k :idea: 

When Stanley (USA) introduced this size (in 1898 according to B&G), they were made with a 2¼” iron, as were the 605½ (Bedrock) and the 27½ (transitional)
The 27½ ceased production in 1934, and the 605½ in 1935. In 1939 (again according to B&G) Stanley changed the width of the iron to 2⅜” (to the width of its closest siblings, the #4½ , #6 and #7). 

When Record began production in 1930/31 they copied the USA Stanleys of the day down to the last detail, including making their 05½ with a 2¼“ iron. According to Leslie Harrison’s “Record Tools” (the reprint of Record’s February 1938 catalogue No.15) Record changed their 05½ to a 2⅜” iron in 1937/38 (although said reprint still shows it with a 2¼“ iron).

In December 1936 Stanley bought out JA Chapman and began producing UK Stanley planes. Does anyone here have a 2¼“ UK Stanley No.5½ ? Or did Stanley UK beat everyone to the change and start with 2⅜” No.5½s from day one?

Just wondering...

(No I don't have one)

Cheers, Vann.


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## Peter T (27 Nov 2012)

I've got an oldish Record 5 1/2, but it's got a 2 3/8 wide iron, so I guess it's post 1937/38.

FWIW, my modern Lie Nielsen 5 1/2 also has a 2 3/8 iron.


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## bugbear (28 Nov 2012)

Vann":2rdjf78j said:


> With (obviously) too much time on my hands, I've been thinking about Stanley No.5½ planes :-k :idea:
> 
> When Stanley (USA) introduced this size (in 1898 according to B&G), they were made with a 2¼” iron, as were the 605½ (Bedrock) and the 27½ (transitional)
> The 27½ ceased production in 1934, and the 605½ in 1935. In 1939 (again according to B&G) Stanley changed the width of the iron to 2⅜” (to the width of its closest siblings, the #4½ , #6 and #7).
> ...



With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.

I think I would have spotted it, since I did notice "something unusual" when I saw my first Stanley USA instance.

BugBer


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## Vann (28 Nov 2012)

bugbear":45d7sz8p said:


> With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.


Thanks BB. But I'm *sure* Record did make them in 2¼“ size http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221154666753? ... 1432.l2649 ; the reference in Harrison's book and David Lynch's website http://www.recordhandplanes; and the cracked one I have in my hot hands.

But it's the development (or maybe the backward step) of the change from 2⅜” to 2¼“ that I am curious about (or "researching"). That's why I was wondering if Stanley UK made the move first - and therefore whether there is such a thing as a UK Stanley with a 2¼“ iron.

As a side note of interest (well to plane nutters like myself anyway  ) is that Record changed their 05½ from 2¼“ wide, supposedly in 1937/38, then in 1939 they brought out the T5 also with a 2¼“ iron (only to change that to 2" in 1952). Maybe they had a bunch of leftover 2¼“ irons, lever-caps or frogs :roll: 

Cheers, Vann.


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## bugbear (28 Nov 2012)

Vann":1ea7t2i2 said:


> bugbear":1ea7t2i2 said:
> 
> 
> > With deference to the real "curator grade" collectors out there, I will say that I have NEVER seen a 2¼“ bladed #5½ plane from Record or Stanlay UK.
> ...



Always willing to learn - thanks for that.

BugBear


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## Dlow (28 Nov 2012)

I have a stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 inch blade.
I think it is early 1900

If you want any info on it just ask.

David


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## mickthetree (28 Nov 2012)

I have a record 51/2 with a 1/4" blade. Ray Iles makes spare blades for them which Matthew sells over on workshop heaven.

It is my go to plane for most jobs. I will be selling my Record no.6 SS soon as I rarely use it. I just prefer the 5 1/2.


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## bugbear (28 Nov 2012)

mickthetree":1jb2xftq said:


> I have a record 51/2 with a 1/4" blade.



Is it a plough plane?

(hat, coat etc)

BugBear


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## mickthetree (28 Nov 2012)

haha. Yes. Yes it is.   

Of course I meant mine is 2 1/4" blade. Our friend Alf's favoured 51/2 size.


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## Vann (28 Nov 2012)

Dlow":15fxsyxr said:


> I have a stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 inch blade.


Thanks David, but if you're right about it being early 1900s (pre-1936), it'll be a USA model (or maybe Canadian?). 

If it is English I like to know - that's exactly what I'm trying to find out - were any 2¼“ Stanleys made in England.

Thanks, Vann.


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## Dlow (28 Nov 2012)

Vann

I'm not exactly sure of the date.
How do i tell if it's made in the UK?

David


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## Vann (29 Nov 2012)

Dlow":i9a885pp said:


> How do i tell if it's made in the UK?


Hi David. If it's made in UK it will have "MADE IN ENGLAND" cast in the sole - I'm not sure where on a No.5½, either behind the knob or behind the frog. 

However, I suspect this is a wild goose chase. I'm coming to the conclusion (based on logic, not hard facts) that Patrick Leach is wrong :shock: when he writes (in B&G) "#_5 1/2 Jack plane, 15"L, 2 1/4"W (*2 3/8" 1939 on*), 6 3/4lbs, 1898-1958_ ". In 1933 the USA type #16 came out with redesigned frog and lever-cap, and a raised flat rib added to the heel and toe of the sole casting. Surely that is when they widened the No.5½ from 2¼“ to 2⅜”? Rather than manufacture new, narrow, frog and lever-cap patterns for the orphan No.5½. 

It would then follow that UK Stanleys - which are based on the USA type #16 - would have been made 2⅜” wide from day one (while Records which are based on the USA type #14 - would have been made 2¼“ wide, until standardised in 1937/38).

So, has anybody (ANYBODY pleeeaase) got a UK Stanley 5½ with a 2¼“ iron to disprove my theory.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Benchwayze (1 Dec 2012)

Darn Vann! I thought you might want one, or three number 5 and a halves ...


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## GazPal (1 Dec 2012)

The only UK made Stanley 5-1/2 I have has a 2-3/8" iron, although I do have a Sweetheart era 2-1/4" iron that came with it, but the iron was USA made and under-sized for the mouth width.


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## Dovetaildave (1 Dec 2012)

I gotta Stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 blade.
Pat marks are; 
MAR 25-02 
AUG 19-02
APR 19-10

Dosnt say anything else on the casting apart from Bailey at the toe and 5 1/2 at rear.

If that's any help.........it's got a perfectly formed Small Knob


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## Vann (1 Dec 2012)

Dovetaildave":1o8bkabn said:


> I gotta Stanley 51/2 with a 2 1/4 blade.
> Pat marks are;
> MAR 25-02
> AUG 19-02
> APR 19-10


Thanks DD. Those patent dates make it a USA model - dating back to 1910-24 



Dovetaildave":1o8bkabn said:


> If that's any help.........it's got a perfectly formed Small Knob


Well at least you're not skiting... :mrgreen: (low knob would make it 1910 -18).




GazPal":1o8bkabn said:


> ...I do have a Sweetheart era 2-1/4" iron that came with it, but the iron was USA made and under-sized for the mouth width.


Gary, I think those narrow irons are a little more valuable than the standard ones, tho' probably not sufficiently so to bother selling and buying another at 2⅜”.




Benchwayze":1o8bkabn said:


> I thought you might want one, or three number 5 and a halves ...


John, well in this kind of research one needs to have a decent sampling.... Actually I don't have a No.5½. :---) Mine are Records so they're No.05½s. 

Cheers, Vann.


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## Dovetaildave (1 Dec 2012)

Thanks for the dates Vann,
Never really have got the hang of dating these, B+G and all the rest, all very informative but still a bit beyond me.

Pm'ed


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## Vann (1 Dec 2012)

Dovetaildave":2bf8qdpi said:


> Never really have got the hang of dating these, B+G and all the rest...


I find http://www.rexmill.com easiest to use (not that it makes the planes go any faster  - but I do find the history of these things interesting)

Cheers, Vann.


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## Admiral (2 Dec 2012)

The easiest flowchart to date US made Stanley planes is here:

http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/st...ater planes in this type did have high knobs.


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## Dovetaildave (2 Dec 2012)

http://www.rexmill.com/

Once I managed to find my specs (Ctrl +), yeah good pictorial site, think its a type 11 or 12, knob,dates, no ring on casting. 

Interestingly though, the frog is; flat fronted, just Stanley on lateral adj , and here it comes................ 5 1/2 cast into the right leg, on painted side/underside when viewed from behind. 

Just looked on the latter (USA)no 6 and (England)no4, no numbers on either of them.

I couldn't see anything on the site about that. :?


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## Vann (2 Dec 2012)

Dovetaildave":10pflepc said:


> http://www.rexmill.com/
> 
> Just looked on the latter (USA)no 6 and (England)no4, no numbers on either of them.
> 
> I couldn't see anything on the site about that. :?


The Stanley dating sites are all USA orientated. They're no good for UK or Aussie planes. I'm not sure about Canadian Stanleys. I suspect these were assembled in Canada using contemporary USA parts (but that's just a guess).

As for dating UK Stanleys, the best I've found was on a thread on the Aussie forum (way back in November 2004):


> I'm sure we can make up a type study for these, I don't expect any Americans to do so any time soon. Howabout:
> 
> Type 1: 1937-1939
> Type 2: WW2, hard rubber adjusting nuts..
> ...


However this would need refining, as (for example) Type 3: it was a long time after WW2 that the steel bits showed up (like late 1960s or early 1970s) so there's room for a few additional "types" in there.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Dovetaildave (3 Dec 2012)

Vann,
Thanks for the info and effort.
I was surprised by the 5 1/2 mark on the foot of the frog on the USA no 5 1/2.

I Haven't seen it on the other Stanley's I own (6 and 4 UK and USA).

Admiral,
I tried looking through http://www.hyperkitten.com/tools/stanle ... ii.php/url and couldn't find anything about a size mark on the frog...

I'll stop now as I don't want to be accused of hijacking your post.


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## GazPal (3 Dec 2012)

Vann":21ib340j said:


> GazPal":21ib340j said:
> 
> 
> > ...I do have a Sweetheart era 2-1/4" iron that came with it, but the iron was USA made and under-sized for the mouth width.
> ...



I think they might be a touch more valuable, but it's in really good condition (Clean and with enough real estate behind the edge to land a helicopter  ) and I think I'll keep it safely tucked away until the day I possibly find myself with a #5-1/2 / #05-1/2 in need of a 2-1/4" iron


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