# Paul Sellers - Trademark?



## Bluekingfisher (19 Nov 2015)

While I thoroughly enjoy watching and learning from the Paul Sellers series of vidoes on YouTube I cannot help but wonder about some of his claims.

I do not in anyway doubt Pauls ability, skill or experience in the craft of woodworking, although, as with most "celebrity" hosts (whatever the subject matter) they consider a punch line, gimmick or some other way or identifying their unique pattern of delivery as essential. TV chefs spring to mind :roll: 

While watching a couple of his instructional videos last night, he made a claim to inventing the term "knifewall" where he cuts a scribe line in the wood prior to creating a kerf with a chisel for the saw (or chisel) to nestle into to ensure crisp cut lines.

The other tip he appeared to lay claim to, was creating a small chamfer on the inside face edges of dovetails to reduce resistence when fitting over the pins. As a weekend woodworking warrior I have used these methods myself, so why would Paul consider he is the inventor of these techniques? I would have thought such would have been common practice for craftsmen?

David


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## Tony Zaffuto (19 Nov 2015)

I've seen & read about both techniques many years before I ever knew Paul Sellers existed!

I'm not posting this to be derogatory about Paul (I've purchased his DVD series & book), but there is so much about our profession & hobby that has been in the public domain for many decades, if not centuries.


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## MIGNAL (19 Nov 2015)

Nah!! I've been using a 'knifewall' for 40 years. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the first, probably by about a thousand years.
Maybe Sellers means that he came up with the actual term rather than the technique?


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## AndyT (19 Nov 2015)

He may well have invented the *term* "knifewall" - which I think is a useful one - but I don't think he claims to have invented the technique, which was the standard approach taught to us in school woodwork lessons in the early 70s, as was chamfering the insides of dovetails.

In fact, a Google Books search for the exact word "knifewall" (not "knife wall") throws up only one printed usage in the context of woodworking, which is in Sellers' book. While not proof, that is supporting evidence for his claim.


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## Andy Kev. (19 Nov 2015)

Hah! I'll do a Paul Sellers and claim I've invented a term. Because I need all the help I can get to keep my sawing vertical, I make the knife wall in the usual way and then deepen it significantly with a chisel bash followed by a second paring. The result is quite marked and I self-mockingly christened it a "knife canyon" although "saw canyon" might be more fitting. You read it here first.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Nov 2015)

"Saw crater"  Seriously, I was taught both of those at school fifty years ago.


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## undergroundhunter (19 Nov 2015)

I think he is referring to the term not the technique, I subscribe to his masterclasses and I'm sure he said that's what he was taught but he coined the phrase "knifewall". As far as the dovetails are concerned I read about it on Chris Schwarz's blog, again I remember Paul saying that he teaches the method but I don't recall him ever saying it was his idea.

Matt


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## Zeddedhed (19 Nov 2015)

Having just had a major argument with my evil oval skew chisel I hereby lay claim to the term 'wood pizza', as in 'that spotty git's got a face like a pizza!"


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## custard (19 Nov 2015)

I'm wondering if he's going a bit potty in his old age? I've read some of his recent blog posts and there's just a hint of messianic over reach in some of his assertions! He's starting to claim responsibility for a global hand tool revival, where it's his recommendations that have driven up world prices for used hand planes. And he's in the vanguard of a life style revolution that will catapult us into a post industrial age.

Steady on old boy!

I'd still recommend him as the best free, on-line teaching resource for a newcomer. But as well as allowing for his dodgy 1970's design ethic, you'll probably now have to aim off for his burgeoning fantasies that he has some wider social or cultural significance beyond showing beginners how to make a wooden spoon.


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## AndyT (19 Nov 2015)

Custard, I do agree about his blog. On the whole, Sellers' spoken explations are quite clear, as you would expect from someone used to talking to students. But the blog so often dips into incoherent, unedited rambling. Maybe someone else writes it for him?


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## n0legs (19 Nov 2015)

"Samurai Ninja Pizza Cat" is mine, and only mine. Got it?. Good.


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## lurker (19 Nov 2015)

I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?


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## No skills (19 Nov 2015)

I find Sellers output ranges from excellent and very interesting to whimsical and sometimes just dung. 
I would quite like to go and do one of his courses, I think I would learn quite a lot but free time and money just isn't there.
Perhaps Custard should run some courses


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## D_W (19 Nov 2015)

I think you guys are expecting a lot if you're hoping that the instructors who rely mostly on beginners will not try to do a little bit of huckstering. It's part of the equation - the apprentice isn't bound to the shop, so some marketing is in order.


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## D_W (19 Nov 2015)

lurker":398bfbne said:


> I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?



Texan. It's sort of like American, but not quite.


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## AndyT (19 Nov 2015)

lurker":3uhvr5vo said:


> I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?



No, English, but he teaches in Wales and in the USA.

https://paulsellers.com/paul-sellers-biography/


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## lurker (19 Nov 2015)

I tried to watch a couple of his things on u tube but got bored.


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## lurker (19 Nov 2015)

D_W":2d0mz9oi said:


> I think you guys are expecting a lot if you're hoping that the instructors who rely mostly on beginners will not try to do a little bit of huckstering. It's part of the equation - the apprentice isn't bound to the shop, so some marketing is in order.



I think you have it. These days it's never about the product but the hype.


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## Jelly (19 Nov 2015)

AndyT":1d7frg4u said:


> lurker":1d7frg4u said:
> 
> 
> > I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?
> ...



Just outside Bangor on the North Wales coast... I was most surprised to discover he was my neighbour when I was living there.

Very nice chap he is, and very skilled as both a woodworker and a communicator.


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## bugbear (19 Nov 2015)

D_W":xra3iiyp said:


> lurker":xra3iiyp said:
> 
> 
> > I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?
> ...



You think he's Texan - with that accent ?!?!?

BugBear


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## bugbear (19 Nov 2015)

AndyT":3eqhr7tt said:


> Custard, I do agree about his blog. On the whole, Sellers' spoken explations are quite clear, as you would expect from someone used to talking to students. But the blog so often dips into incoherent, unedited rambling. Maybe someone else writes it for him?



I hadn't consciously noted the contrast between the spoken and the written - but you're quite right, it's very surprising.

And some of the stuff he writes is either barking, incomprehensible, or both.

BugBear


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## D_W (19 Nov 2015)

bugbear":3mxorm41 said:


> D_W":3mxorm41 said:
> 
> 
> > lurker":3mxorm41 said:
> ...



Maybe he's from London, TX.


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## D_W (19 Nov 2015)

lurker":3r4car5i said:


> D_W":3r4car5i said:
> 
> 
> > I think you guys are expecting a lot if you're hoping that the instructors who rely mostly on beginners will not try to do a little bit of huckstering. It's part of the equation - the apprentice isn't bound to the shop, so some marketing is in order.
> ...



I do like the smile he gives to the camera at the end of every video. He's hardly a harmful guy, I just wish he'd show stuff that's a little more advanced, but then again, if I were him - I probably wouldn't want to give that away for free, either.

It's pretty hard to have that sort of calm norm abrahms presence on camera and not do anything that doesn't irritate someone. It's hard enough even to just be concise while delivering more than just summary level material.


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## xraymtb (19 Nov 2015)

lurker":1hs3s0wj said:


> I tried to watch a couple of his things on u tube but got bored.


If you compare him to some other youtube woodworkers (mainly American) they definitely go quicker and with more energy about things. His content is good though if you can stick with it.


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## CONGER (20 Nov 2015)

> Maybe he's from London, TX.



I think he is from Tx... or at least that is where he should best be located.

He sometimes has interesting stuff.... but his communication skills (moaning?) are a PITA... or as one would say in Irl... a PITH.

The 'knifewall' reminds me of the _Charlesworth ruler 'trick'_. With due respects to David, I first saw this 'trick' while watching a carpenter during my youth (a few years ago).

-gerard-


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## DennisCA (20 Nov 2015)

I did note the idea that he thought he was responsible for making planes more expensive. Rather than a bunch of rich hipsters just driving up the prices for something that happens to be in vogue right now. They probably just want them as decorations for their re-purposed workbenches that they use as writing desks or something instead...


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

A highly experienced turner of past retirement age told us a while ago that he'd seen a great idea - grinding your scrapers upside down. He seemed most surprised when I said I was taught that 50 years ago at school. I very much doubt there's much new.


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## xraymtb (20 Nov 2015)

phil.p":1m8evico said:


> A highly experienced turner of past retirement age told us a while ago that he'd seen a great idea - grinding your scrapers upside down. He seemed most surprised when I said I was taught that 50 years ago at school. I very much doubt there's much new.


I would say that we might invent new tools but without them the previous generations likely invented every 'trick' there is! All people do now is rediscover them and then package them nicely in a YouTube video


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## Bluekingfisher (20 Nov 2015)

D_W":2g2yl6ss said:


> lurker":2g2yl6ss said:
> 
> 
> > I am only vaguely aware of the bloke from references on this forum. Is he American?
> ...



With the greatest of respect, Americans are not known for their accent identification skill.

During a trip to the US my broad SW Scotland accent was confued as that of an Austrailan. Without a hint of sarcasm I informed the chap I was from Scotland - Gee!, what state is that in? He wasn't being sarcastic either. Knda worrying really  

David


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## Racers (20 Nov 2015)

n0legs":1xmrad3i said:


> "Samurai Ninja Pizza Cat" is mine, and only mine. Got it?. Good.




Good job you put the ninja in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai_Pizza_Cats

Pete


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

Accent recognition is strange. A Maori friend of my b.i.l. couldn't believe it had taken eleven years of living in NZ before he could tell a Kiwi from an Australian without fail - but he could hear no difference in accent between me and said b.i.l. mine is Cornish and his is broad Plymouth.


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## bugbear (20 Nov 2015)

phil.p":2ti3albn said:


> Accent recognition is strange. A Maori friend of my b.i.l. couldn't believe it had taken eleven years of living in NZ before he could tell a Kiwi from an Australian without fail - but he could hear no difference in accent between me and said b.i.l. mine is Cornish and his is broad Plymouth.



Many Americans can't tell the difference between Australian, South African and English!!

BugBear


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## pedder (20 Nov 2015)

bugbear":h448jeyw said:


> I hadn't consciously noted the contrast between the spoken and the written - but you're quite right, it's very surprising.
> And some of the stuff he writes is either barking, incomprehensible, or both.




I'm pretty sure there is more than one person behind the Paul Sellers school and publishing. 
Not that I've read or listen much to Paul Sellers (It is this, _I helped Noah with the arch attitude_ 
wich keeps me from doing.) Nor could I hear or read the differnce between London and Stockholm accent.)

Cheers 
Pedder


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## John15 (20 Nov 2015)

Members who are ridiculing Paul Sellers must know something I don't know. I don't read his blogs but subscribe to his Masterclass series and find his attitude fine, his skill level and ability to communicate extremely good. What is there to dislike with that.

John


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## D_W (20 Nov 2015)

Bluekingfisher":3s1ac6wf said:


> D_W":3s1ac6wf said:
> 
> 
> > lurker":3s1ac6wf said:
> ...



You're right. We can identify accents from the United States, but not too much else as far as English goes (as in, I'd have no clue what part of England someone was from just listening to their accent - unless they're scottish).


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## Racers (20 Nov 2015)

John15":2dggmthk said:


> Members who are ridiculing Paul Sellers must know something I don't know. I don't read his blogs but subscribe to his Masterclass series and find his attitude fine, his skill level and ability to communicate extremely good. What is there to dislike with that.
> 
> John



His skill level isn't as good a others in some areas.
For example spoon carving .

Ben Orford 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW2DN46lrqk

Paul Sellers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjK2yKZEPZQ

Paul Sellers rubs me up the wrong way for some reason, I prefer Roy Underhill

http://video.pbs.org/program/woodwrights-shop/


Pete


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## Tony Zaffuto (20 Nov 2015)

So what about the knife wall and about accents, I can pick a Pittsburgh, PA accent out a mile away.


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## John15 (20 Nov 2015)

Err, Yes, Well. I'm not really into spoon making so how he makes his spoons doesn't bother me very much.

John


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## ajmacleod (20 Nov 2015)

Racers":i3ci8r66 said:


> His skill level isn't as good a others in some areas.
> For example spoon carving .
> Paul Sellers rubs me up the wrong way for some reason, I prefer Roy Underhill



Personality preferences aside, Paul Sellers is vastly better at actually demonstrating and communicating what he's doing to someone who doesn't already know and understand it. Roy Underhill may be more entertaining to watch but in the few videos of his I've watched he tends to gloss over some things too quickly; I enjoyed them, but would have found them far harder to replicate myself.

Teachers are rarely the very most highly skilled people in their field of expertise - it's their ability to communicate that's of prime importance and Paul Sellers' calm and measured approach which only skips the completely duplicated operations is first class.

Clearly if you are already skilled in woodwork you're going to find someone who doesn't gloss over the basics tedious, but then those videos probably aren't for you.


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## Bigbud78 (20 Nov 2015)

D_W":2dvr147g said:


> You're right. We can identify accents from the United States, but not too much else as far as English goes (as in, I'd have no clue what part of England someone was from just listening to their accent - unless they're scottish).



Their not from England if their Scottish :lol: We're all from Britain


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## DennisCA (20 Nov 2015)

everyone from the US is a yank and everyone from the UK is an englishman, to an outsider anyway.


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## n0legs (20 Nov 2015)

DennisCA":302agimr said:


> everyone from the UK is an englishman, to an outsider anyway.



Well it's about time they learned different  
Diawled dwp :lol:


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## swagman (20 Nov 2015)

Bigbud78":ctxv76r7 said:


> D_W":ctxv76r7 said:
> 
> 
> > You're right. We can identify accents from the United States, but not too much else as far as English goes (as in, I'd have no clue what part of England someone was from just listening to their accent - unless they're scottish).
> ...



Those with scottish blood running through their veins will never forget the tyrany of England.!


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## D_W (20 Nov 2015)

Bigbud78":2js75jiz said:


> D_W":2js75jiz said:
> 
> 
> > You're right. We can identify accents from the United States, but not too much else as far as English goes (as in, I'd have no clue what part of England someone was from just listening to their accent - unless they're scottish).
> ...



Aah....I should not have made that error, I have been corrected by an Englishman in person for that before ("I am English...ENGLISH...not British...British could mean *anything*)

As far as the yank comments, we get that from all directions. The English call us yanks, and so do the southerners.


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

Swagman - I doubt those with Scottish blood are over fond of Australia at the moment. :lol:


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## Racers (20 Nov 2015)

ajmacleod":dxpt4q0k said:


> Racers":dxpt4q0k said:
> 
> 
> > His skill level isn't as good a others in some areas.
> ...




Its just the way he thinks he knows every thing and shows how to make a spoon, and ends up with something that you could club a baby seal to death with.
That not the way to communicate, demonstrating something badly.

Roy does seem to rush things but its done one take.

Pete


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## Paddy Roxburgh (20 Nov 2015)

n0legs":2ajfk1r2 said:


> DennisCA":2ajfk1r2 said:
> 
> 
> > everyone from the UK is an englishman, to an outsider anyway.
> ...




NoLegs, I've had a Romanian lad doing some work for at the dock me the last couple of weeks, nice lad and hard worker, but I was shocked to find out he had never heard of Wales, Ireland and Scotland for sure but not Wales. I still think he didn't quite believe me that outside the cities Welsh was the main language and that it was less like English than Romanian is (Romanian is a latin based language similar to Italian and Spanish)


As for Paul Sellers I think he is an excellent teacher and has helped me spend more time at the bench and less on the machines. His tools and techniques section of his masterclasses is free (although you have to register) and a mine of useful information. I have pretty much stopped reading his blog and agree that he can ramble on and sometimes get caught up in his own importance, but hey, I'm not going to marry him, I just want him to show me how to make a plane and sharpen an auger (I think my ex would agree this arrangement is probably best for him too). 
Paddy


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

"I still think he didn't quite believe me that outside the cities Welsh was the main language"
Nor does anyone else. The second language is apparently Polish. Welsh language is very heavily subsidised by England, and SC4 is per capita the most expensive TV channel in the world.


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## xraymtb (20 Nov 2015)

Isn't Wales the largest county in England? :twisted:


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

Wales, Wales, bloody great fishes are Wales ...


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## Paddy Roxburgh (20 Nov 2015)

Phil, when I go to Wales I hear Welsh all the time , I hardly ever hear Irish in Ireland and have never heard Scottish in Scotland (you can't argue with carefully compiled statistics like that) yet there is BBC Alba in Scotland and TG4 in Ireland. Not saying your wrong but I'm surprised. 
Paddy


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

Apparently the second language in Dublin is Mandarin. (Not Cantonese, as I said)


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Nov 2015)

This conversation's not much to with Paul Sellers, really. better let it revert.


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## n0legs (20 Nov 2015)

phil.p":3oby64vt said:


> "I still think he didn't quite believe me that outside the cities Welsh was the main language"
> Nor does anyone else. The second language is apparently Polish.



Phil bachgen chi wir siomi fi :lol:


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## Paddy Roxburgh (21 Nov 2015)

Dylai dysgu siarad Cernyweg , ni allwch gael y ar google cyfieithu.

Anyway Paul Sellers .....


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Nov 2015)

There are 19% of the population who speak Welsh, and it's declining despite its being compulsory in schools. Sorry, guys, that doesn't make it the "main language" by any stretch of the imagination.


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## Harbo (21 Nov 2015)

Paul Sellers is a "northerner" born in Stockport, Cheshire.

When I was in New Orleans a waitress "loved my accent - was I French" - it was in the French District though I was born in Yorkshire.

I've talked to Canadians who get upset when you ask which part of the States they come from also NZ's don't like been thought of as Australians 

Rod


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## DennisCA (21 Nov 2015)

Being a swedish speaker from Finland, the reactions I get are more like "what's a finland?". Nevermind any finer nuances 

Anyway on the topic, I do like Paul Sellers, his last video on making a plane was very enjoyable. He does give off a messianic vibe sometimes but nobody's perfect.


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Nov 2015)

My sister's a naturalised Kiwi. A jafa. They don't like being called that.


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## DennisCA (21 Nov 2015)

I've seen her people on TV in a show called Stargate.


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## undergroundhunter (21 Nov 2015)

Ok so we have gone a little off topic. 

Back to Paul Sellers. 

I met him today at the Harrogate show, he stopped and took the time to chat for about 10mins. He was more interested in me (and my family) and how I got into woodworking than "preaching" or talking about himself. I could have spent hours talking to him. 
Very humbling really to know that he isn't interested in ramming his philosophies down your throat despite how some of his videos and blog may come across to some people, he is just very passionate about what he does. 

As the old saying goes there is more than one way to skin a cat but to me Paul's methods and teaching style is comprehensive and easy to follow. I think without his masterclasses I wouldn't have got this far without giving woodworking up as a bad job. 

just my 2p worth.

Matt


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## lurker (21 Nov 2015)

Paddy Roxburgh":18u0i86j said:


> Phil, when I go to Wales I hear Welsh all the time , I hardly ever hear Irish in Ireland and have never heard Scottish in Scotland (you can't argue with carefully compiled statistics like that) yet there is BBC Alba in Scotland and TG4 in Ireland. Not saying your wrong but I'm surprised.
> Paddy



Course they do!
When you walk in they are speaking English but change to Welsh. 
I vowed never to go there again, if I could help it. If they think they can manage to survive without tourism let em get on with it!


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## Woodchips2 (21 Nov 2015)

I learned about the knife wall from Paul Sellers and whether he invented it or not it enables me to cut timber dead square with minimal touch up on the shooting board.

Regards Keith


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## iNewbie (21 Nov 2015)

This is what Sellers posted about Knifewall - see his May 5th post down the page:

https://paulsellers.com/my-disclaimer/


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## heimlaga (22 Nov 2015)

Like all other craftsmen he is a master at some things, good at some things, mediocre at some things and bad at some things.

I have learned quite a few tricks from his benchwork videos. I used to watch them when I was ill. He seems to be very good at benchwork with hand tools.

One of the things he doesn't know is how to use an axe or hatchet....... I saw a youtube video with him teaching that and the whole video was totally ridiculous........ but.... even the best teacher in the world may once or twice in a lifetime be lured to teach a thing he doesn't know.


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## Bluekingfisher (23 Nov 2015)

phil.p":3ccm5lx3 said:


> Swagman - I doubt those with Scottish blood are over fond of Australia at the moment. :lol:



We get over such very quickly, we have invented the fine art of partying when failing at the last hurdle on any given sporting event, God forbid we actually ever win something of significance. We would only be stunned into a shocked silence and spend eternity believing we could win it again :wink: 



David


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## swagman (23 Nov 2015)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/ ... 465214.jpg


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Nov 2015)

Thoroughly unnecessary, Swagman. They were far beyond excuses.  
Having said that, Oz shouldn't have got as far as they did.


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