# What spindle moulder tooling should I buy



## La Gib (12 Jul 2010)

Hi all.

I need to buy a spindle moulder block for my new combi machine. I seen Wealden tools have a good price on there blocks. 

Should i go for steel or aluminium.

Steel sounds stronger and better to me but what do you think :?: 

Also is biggest always best? how much size do the cutters add to the block diameter once they are fitted?

Cheers Alan


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## La Gib (12 Jul 2010)

The spindle moulder has three aluminium rings, two of which are removable. Should all three be removable? 

Once the rings are removed the hole diameter is 110mm,


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## ProShop (12 Jul 2010)

it makes no difference as to steel or alloy. Alloy is better if you have a low powered machine as the inertia required to spin up the block is less.

Some of the best tooling makers use alloy blocks.

The quality of the cut is no different either, we use both steel & alloy.

Big heavy steel blocks need some serious motor power to spin them up from standstill.

As to biggest is always best, imho the answer is no, because some jobs just need a smaller cutter block.

The size of the cutters vary depending on their profile and block size they are made for.

FWIW I'd buy a dedicated rebate block with tct cutters in, and then a combi block to take the various shaped cutters. Say a euro 40mm or 50mm as there is a myriad of cutters available out there from lots of different firms. Plus blanks are easy to obtain so you can have some made to your own profile.


Hope this helps.


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## ProShop (12 Jul 2010)

La Gib":1v7aka6u said:


> The spindle moulder has three aluminium rings, two of which are removable. Should all three be removable?
> 
> Once the rings are removed the hole diameter is 110mm,


Depends on the make & model of machine. 110mm is not very big !!


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## La Gib (13 Jul 2010)

Hi Proshop. 

Thanks for the reply, I just called Axminster and the third ring is removable it just needs a bit of initial persuasion. 

That brings the size up to 160mm which sounds a bit better.

Cheers Alan


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## beech1948 (13 Jul 2010)

La Gib,

I am guessing from the tone of your messages that you are not yet experienced with a spindle moulder and have many gaps to fill in your knowledge.

They are very dangerous machines. They do require some best practice skills in guarding, presentation of work and safety.

If you do not have this knowledge then step back and go acquire it from a course or a college. 

Just stepping up and using the machine will initially terrify you and then you will make a mistake and lose some flesh or fingers. Be safe not sorry.

regards
Alan


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## RogerS (13 Jul 2010)

I second what Alan has said. 

Ask yourself these two questions.

1) Do I know what a Shaw guard is?

2) Do I know when not to use one ?

The spindle moulder takes no prisoners. Let me give you an example that happened to me the other week. I had had some dedicated profile cutters made up to run some glazing bars off. I'd made a tunnel to support the stock as it was fed through the cutter block. As one piece started to come out the one end, the next piece was being fed in from the other. So at all times, the tunnel was kept away from the spinning cutters by the stock and the top part of the tunnel touching the fence.

That is until the last piece was fed through and extracted out the other end. All still OK.......until...the tunnel dipped slightly, touched the spinning cutter and was fired out the side of the moulder at high speed and being duly ripped to shreds in less than a second, a splinter being driven into my finger and general changing of trousers time.


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## ProShop (13 Jul 2010)

> you would be better off getting some professional training than watching a video.
> 
> Some will come to your place and teach you on your own machine. Trust me you'll learn an awful lot and you'll have the machining skill and safety training with you for life. It's the cheapest & best accessory you'll ever buy.




I posted this some time ago on another thread on this subject, I hope some members took up my advice.


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## JoinerySolutions (13 Jul 2010)

ProShop":10tsyz1u said:


> > you would be better off getting some professional training than watching a video.
> >
> > Some will come to your place and teach you on your own machine. Trust me you'll learn an awful lot and you'll have the machining skill and safety training with you for life. It's the cheapest & best accessory you'll ever buy.
> 
> ...



Proshop, could you post a link to the other thread, I think it would be of help to La Gib and others.

La Gib
I have seen the results of a couple of nasty Spindle moulder accidents, all of which were avoidable, and several others where the user was very lucky to not be injured.
They need to be understood and respected but not for the operator to be afraid of them. Check out Axminster for the Roy Sutton DVD on basic spindle moulding (I've not seen it but the man was much reverred for his knowledge and had the respect of many woodworkers) This would be least you could do to better understand the tool. One to one instruction would be far better.
Rob.


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## La Gib (13 Jul 2010)

Guys thank you very much for your information and warnings. I am very conscious and cautious of the dangers even though I have not witnessed the problems my self.

I have a few books that have been studying up on but will look into the Roy Sutton DVD. I have found an outlet on the net so will hopefully be able to order it in.

I have used table mounted routers for years and am used to climb cutting and end grain work but I realise that there is a major difference in torque and power between the spindle moulder and the router.

But thanks again I realise that this is a dangerous machine and it would be in my best interests to learn all the safety aspects.

Stage 1 is to buy a rebate cutter that will suit my machine that I will not regret buying at a later date. i'm thinking I would like to get a dedicated rebate cutter? 

Stage 2 is to only use the rebate cutter once I have satisfied myself of the dangers and how to avoid them.


At first i wish only to use the rebate cutter with very shallow cuts until I get the measure of the machine. After i have gained some experience then i will go further. 

Cheers Alan


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## JoinerySolutions (14 Jul 2010)

Okay.
These are my 3 main cutter blocks, all are marked with their maximum rpm spindle speeds and as being able to be used in a manual spindle moulder ie. not having the timber power fed.







Rebate block, 9° Cill Block and CMT Profile block.

These get just about anything I need to make done.
The CMT Profiler came with some cutters and I added more to the set.






Hope this helps.
Rob.


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## cutting solutions (14 Jul 2010)

JoinerySolutions":3evijm4h said:


> Okay.
> These are my 3 main cutter blocks, all are marked with their maximum rpm spindle speeds and as being able to be used in a manual spindle moulder ie. not having the timber power fed.
> Rob.



Power feed does not allow you to use cutterheads marked MEC.
EN847 regulations are quite specific that the power feed is a detachable item and does not allow use of cutterheads marked MEC.


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## JoinerySolutions (14 Jul 2010)

cutting solutions":oz1y2hit said:


> JoinerySolutions":oz1y2hit said:
> 
> 
> > Okay.
> ...



See, never under-estimate the knowledge of a good tooling supplier, that bit of knowledge has somehow passed me by, thanks for the heads up.
As I do a lot of curved work all mine are MAN marked.

I suspect though most MEC marked blocks are for enclosed 4 and 6 cutter moulders, can't see many single spindle moulders with fixed power feed.

Thanks, Rob


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## La Gib (15 Jul 2010)

Hi all.

Joinery Solutions thanks for the pictures and reply a picture paints a thousand words.

Cutting solutions If the cutter block reads MEC does that mean it needs mechanical feed only :?: 

Went to Axminster yesterday and one of the guys there give me a run through on how to set up the spindle moulder. He also was quite precise about the safety side and all in all he spent nearly an hour with me getting me on the right track. I thought that was very professional of them.

I bought a book and a DVD.

Spindle moulder handbook by Eric stephenson

Basic Spindle Moulding by Roy Sutton = DVD

Both very good value from Axminster.

Just have to find time to digest them now :lol: 

Cheers Alan


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## cutting solutions (15 Jul 2010)

Cutterheads marked MEC should only be used on "Mechanically" fed machines.
which is essentially 4 siders etc. the timber is fed onto feed rollers away from the cutterhead and then mechanically moved to be profiled.
the regulations specifically state that "power feeds" do not make the operation mechanical.
be careful when selecting a cutterhead. some are not marked MAN or MEC....which is actually wrong according to the regs.
the rebate block and cill block above have "turnover knives" which only project 1.5 mm (approx) from the main body. that makes them suitable for MAN (manual feed). the profile block on Joinery Solutions post has deflectors (also known as limiters). you should not use that type of cutterhead without the deflectors.
any "open" profile block should have them. If the body of the cutterhead is machined to the shape of the profile knife they are "generally" alright for MAN.

However there are many one man bands that turn a blind eye to the requirements.


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## La Gib (20 Jul 2010)

Hi all.

Here is a photo of the tooling I have bought. The Startrite unit came with some blades but is not leagal to use the blades with the block due to no space for limiters to be fitted. It was a bargain at D + m tools £49.99

So I will use it as a dedicated rebate block.

From wealden tools I bought a 50 x 5.5mm block and all the limiters needed to make a good set. £165.00






So for £215.00 im heading in the right direction. 

That lot should do me for most things until I need a special cutter

Cheers Alan


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## JoinerySolutions (21 Jul 2010)

Alan, I take it you have got two of each profile cutters and limiters? :-k 

The red block is a dedicated rebate block, the black one is a moulding block set up for rebating with two cutters and two limiters to keep the block balanced. 
Not sure why D+M would send out profile cutters with the Startrite block. :?: 

ATB,
Rob.


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## La Gib (21 Jul 2010)

Cheers Rob

D + M tools have an offer on at the moment. The startrite block is an old set that comes as seen but with five pairs of cutters 50mm x 5.5. It is half price and when I enquired they made quite a fuss about the set being no longer legal suggesting that it was sold before the laws changed.

Realising the potential I bought the set from D + M tools.

I then ordered a cutter block from wealden tools which would accept the the five pairs of startrite cutters. I also ordered five pairs of matching limiters from Wealden tools. It so happens that the wealden cutter block comes with a set of rebate knives and cutters.

Last night I was reading the 'Spindle Moulders Handbook' the last few chapters are really helpful explaining work methods, jigs and fixtures.

As I said previously I still haven't used the spindle moulder cause I've been swatting up. Tomorrow will be my first tentative steps but I'm now well prepare with safety first in mind.

Will get some photos on the go. 

Cheers Alan


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## JoinerySolutions (21 Jul 2010)

Alan, that's put my mind at rest.  
Keep us posted and give a shout if you need to know something, will answer as best I can and to my best knowledge.
Spindle moulders are a fantastic bit of kit, far more versatile than a router table and way more powerful. Double check everthing as you get aquainted with your kit, you will then get a rthymn to a safe set up set in mind, if you get distracted at any time review your set up procedure.
Enjoy and produce some great projects.

Rob.


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## edcruwys (10 Jan 2017)

1. buy a dedicated rebate block with a shear cut and not a straight cut. These are kinder to the timber as they slice thru rather than batter their way.
2. Buy a universal profile block in steel (96mm diameter capable of taking 55mm Whitehill cutters) and not the 40mm Euro block often sold cheaper.
3. Advice on tuition is well given. In my time in the industry I have met a lot of guys with less than 10 digits on their hands. Axminster actually do a short course and you would be well served to book it.
4. Cill blocks are very expensive and unless you are in the trade are not really worth spending the money on. I find the best way to make short runs at 5º or 9º is to jig a planer/thicknesser bed. So Aluminium or steel is an academic question. That said any machine sold by Axminster (I used to work for them selling this stuff) is a 3kw machine and will create a power spike on startup with heavy tooling....this is likely to trip out the power supply, so for big tooling opt for aluminium.
5. Some dedicated blocks for often used profiles (rebating, tenoning, glue joints, adjustable chamfer block) can prove their worth in gold if you are doing any amount of work as there is less time spent setting up.
6. All tooling has a maxium run speed range etched onto it (as do router cutters) and will specify whether it is for hand feed (manual) or mechanical (power feed).....very, very important that you observe this as they can quickly grab and cause damage.
7. Invest in a good tenoning hood if doing any amount of end grain work. The generic Chinese one Axm sell isn't that good but the Rojek one is good and easy to modify for your machine.
Hope this helps!


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## meccarroll (10 Jan 2017)

Interesting but it looks like this was originally posted 6 1/2 years ago :?


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## Jacob (10 Jan 2017)

meccarroll":2olz0i61 said:


> Interesting but it looks like this was originally posted 6 1/2 years ago :?


plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose


beech1948":2olz0i61 said:


> ..They are very dangerous machines. ...


Not as dangerous as a circular saw. The main thing is to keep your distance - either with a power feed in front of you, or shaw guards and TWO push sticks.
Getting your fingers within 6" of the cutters is a serious mistake, but easy to avoid.


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## meccarroll (10 Jan 2017)

Jacob":q18pvyrg said:


> meccarroll":q18pvyrg said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting but it looks like this was originally posted 6 1/2 years ago :?
> ...



And so it exists again Lol



> Not as dangerous as a circular saw.



When people say a machine is dangerous, I often think what makes that machine dangerous?

Mark


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## Jacob (11 Jan 2017)

meccarroll":1tv4biux said:


> .....
> 
> When people say a machine is dangerous, I often think what makes that machine dangerous?
> 
> Mark


It used to be the tooling itself such as the square block on this HSE site: http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/tooling.htm
The cutters could break or merely detach themselves and fly off at speed.
The other two illegal blocks shown are relatively much safer in that respect, but it's the operator who makes them dangerous by getting too close.
Modern "limited" blocks have secure cutters and are designed to take a smaller bite if your hand gets in the way.
But there is no need to get anywhere near the cutters if you adopt safe practices.


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## meccarroll (11 Jan 2017)

Jacob":22rpgfvb said:


> meccarroll":22rpgfvb said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...



How is a circular saw more dangerous than a spindle moulder? Both can be fit with saw (type) blades.


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## Jacob (11 Jan 2017)

meccarroll":20uo4h1r said:


> Jacob":20uo4h1r said:
> 
> 
> > meccarroll":20uo4h1r said:
> ...


Bigger blades in a circular saw and can be fully exposed in use (misuse) whereas a spindle cutters are smaller and always used just part protruding between fences, so the chances of accidental contact is less.
Also I think people are more cautious around the spindle moulder for some reason, they are slightly intimidated but take a circular saw for granted


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## Mike Jordan (11 Jan 2017)

One advantage of alloy blocks is in reducing the weight of the rotating mass, this can be an advantage when mounting two blocks on the spindle to cut say a rebate and mould on a door or window in a single pass. There is also an advantage in buying a limiter cutter block from Whitehill for the same purpose, this allows you to order from their standard range of cutters intended to run in conjunction with a 125mm rebate block or order special cutters for particular jobs. You can state sizes and angles and they will make cutters for the profile you want, if you are using an imported block they are all a little different and cutter cutting circle becomes a problem.
I will post a photo of some particularly useful limiter cutters I have had made a little later, that may make the above remarks a little clearer.


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## Mike Jordan (11 Jan 2017)

The cutters and limiters shown are reversible to give 9mm or 12mm rebates when running with the 125mm rebate block. Ive shown them upside down compared to mounted on the spindle since its easier to see how it works.
The ones shown are 20 degrees but i have other sets at 12 and 9 degrees. If you send for the Whitehill catalogue they have a number of profiles for running with the 125mm rebate block, I have no connection with the firm other than as a satisfied customer.
Mike.


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## meccarroll (11 Jan 2017)

Jacob":252y1t9z said:


> Bigger blades in a circular saw and can be fully exposed in use (misuse) whereas a spindle cutters are smaller and always used just part protruding between fences, so the chances of accidental contact is less.
> Also I think people are more cautious around the spindle moulder for some reason, they are slightly intimidated but take a circular saw for granted



Interesting, and I understand what you are saying about circular saw blade size, but I am not sure it makes a circular potentially any more dangerous than any other machine. If you look at a Bandsaw as an example they have a much larger diameter turning blade than a circular saw, and often have more exposed blade facing the operator than a circular saw. Also a spindle moulder can have cutters between 40mm and 100mm wide or more, as opposed to circular saws tips which usually are not any wider than 3.5mm. I often think the potential of danger is more likely to occur from a poorly trained operator or as you have often said misuse of a woodwork machine.

Mark


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## meccarroll (11 Jan 2017)

Mike Jordan":20rrcbd8 said:


> The cutters and limiters shown are reversible to give 9mm or 12mm rebates when running with the 125mm rebate block. Ive shown them upside down compared to mounted on the spindle since its easier to see how it works.
> The ones shown are 20 degrees but i have other sets at 12 and 9 degrees. If you send for the Whitehill catalogue they have a number of profiles for running with the 125mm rebate block, I have no connection with the firm other than as a satisfied customer.
> Mike.



Nice useful bit of information there *Mike*

Mark


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