# New rear handles (totes) for hand planes



## sploo (23 Jan 2016)

I've been collecting a number of old Stanley and Record hand planes, but as some have pretty sad looking handles I wanted to try to make some replacements. Starting with the templates here http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=63262, I put together a single image that contained both a #4 and a #5 drawing, squashed together so I could cut them from a smaller sheet of stock.

I don't have all the required imperial forstner bits, so I added centres to the drawings for some of the nearest metric equivalents.

The purpose of this thread is mostly in the hope it'll help others; I previously cut some prototypes from pine, and made adjustments to my process as a result. Needless to say there were more "learning points" with the actual build.

I got some 200x200x50mm bubinga, which I resawed and hand planed down to the required 15/16" thickness. I then glued two templates to the stock:








From lessons learned with the prototypes, I used a small diameter drill bit to cut a reasonable distance into both the top and bottom ends for the main fixing bolt:







The plans call for a 7/16" (11.1125mm) drill for the nut at the top of the tote. I found that was a bit tight, so I used an 11.5mm bit - the pilot hole diameter was chosen to hopefully guide the tip of that bit:







That looked to work well - the smallest hole is the pilot, and next is the 11.5mm tip, and the rest is obviously the 11.5mm pocket:







I then drilled the bolt hole. The plans call for 5/16" (7.9375mm) but I found a 7mm bit is more than enough, with plenty of "wiggle room" for the bolt.

When cutting the pockets and holes at the bottom of the totes on the prototypes I had problems with the drill bits entering the stock at an angle - especially the forstner required for the #4. So I cut away some of the stock, parallel to the bottoms of the totes, and then use the marking gauge, square and knife to find the drill points:












When I drilled the large forstner holes on the prototype I got a bit of blow-out on the opposite faces. It didn't matter that much as the edges are rounded, but this time I drilled small pilot holes through in order to use the forstner bits from both sides:







I then drilled the bottom pockets (note: I used a 15mm bit as I didn't have a 9/16", and found 14mm was too tight):







And the results... were terrible:






The problem is that, despite everything being clamped really well (and using a very high quality bit) the 7mm bolt hole undermines the cut as it causes the forstner to "fall" into the wrong path.

Hindsight #1: If I made more in the future I think I'd leave just the small pilot hole for the bolt at the bottom end, and cut the stock parallel to the bottoms much closer to the line. That way there's less chance of a small out of square issue meaning the pockets end up in the wrong place, and less chance of the forstner wandering. The bolt hole could then be finished to 7mm as it's much less critical at the bottom in terms of looks (and more forgiving in terms of being a mm or so out - the pockets however need to be exactly right for the stubs on the plane casting).

Alternatively, if it looks as though you've got the stock really nice and square in both planes on the drill press, I'd be tempted to drill the bolt hole down from the top only, and stop just as you break into the space that'll be removed by the 9/16" (or 15mm) forstner bit. That way there'd be no hole in the bottom to affect the forstner (at least until it's nearly finished the cut) and if the bolt hole is a mm or so off at the bottom you'll probably get away with it.


The stock ready for the bandsaw:







Once cut out with the bandsaw (a good 1-2mm away from the lines) I cleaned up the convex curves on the disc sander, and the concave on the bobbin sander (for the observant: yes, I was too lazy to change the base ring as I used different sanding sleeves):












Hindsight #2: The forstner cuts from both sides didn't line up perfectly (0.5mm or so off), so actually just created more sanding work. If you have a bobbin sander with suitable diameter sleeves I'd be tempted to save time by not using the forstners, and just rough cut the shapes with the bandsaw - the bobbin sander will deal with the concave curves just fine.

A shot of the #5 and #4 bubinga totes, with an original #5 1/2, an original plastic #4, and the pine prototypes:







Looking at the originals, the vast majority of the roundovers are 1/2" radius. That's a small problem as 15/16" stock means you can't safely use a bearing guided round over bit to full depth (think about it). The very top sections and toes seemed to work better with a 9.5mm (3/8") round over - though the flat toe section on the #5 is not touched at all.







Despite taking a lot of shallow passes on the router table, and careful climb cuts at the ends, I did get some chipping on the bottoms. I held some scrap against the bottoms for subsequent cuts to alleviate the problem.

Note that it is possible to hold these on a router table but you need to be really concious of where your fingers are, and which way the material would get pulled if it kicks. Do a few dry runs with the router off, and ensure you've never got a finger hooked over an edge - it's very tempting for control, but suicidal for your digits.

The end results weren't bad:







Hindsight #3: When cutting out the shapes on the bandsaw, I'd leave a bit of material (~3mm height, maybe 5-10mm long) sticking out below the heel, and a similar "horn" above the front/top. After rounding the edges over you'd bandsaw them off and use the disc sander to smooth the top and bottom face - it means any router bit chipping would happen on those waste stubs. If that's not clear, put a paper cut out on your router table and see where you'd be at risk of chipping. The only downside of that approach is that you can't test fit the totes to the plane until you've gotten this far. However, unless you've massively screwed up, you should find they'll fit (even if you need to take a small rasp to your bottom pockets on the #4).

That's as far as I've got for the moment. I think the chipping (fortunately to the bottoms of the heels only) is repairable. Next it'll be a lot of rasp and file work do the final shaping - but they do feel OK in the hand already.

EDIT: If you want to skip straight to the "done" post, it's here: post1040556.html#p1040554


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## Racers (24 Jan 2016)

Very similar to what I do, drilling the counter bores first and leaving some meat incase of breakout. I drill the bolt hole from both ends with a long brad point drill. 
I do all my shaping by hand with rasps etc it dosen't take long to do. 

Pete


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## custard (24 Jan 2016)

What a clear and well documented account!

=D> 

The paragraph about the router table made me shudder though! It would be really quick and simple to make a couple of jigs (one for each side) that held the workpiece with toggle cramps and end stops, but that gave run-in and run-out surfaces for the bearing and also _kept your fingers well away from the cutter_! In fact if you did that accurately enough it would replace the entire bobbin sanding section of the job, you'd just bandsaw 1.5mm oversize and form the final shape plus the round over on the router table. In fact my advice would be, either go the router route complete with jigs, or go the rasp/sanding route, but don't mix the two.


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## shed9 (24 Jan 2016)

Thank you for this, I keep threatening to do this myself and this will be a HUGE help.


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## GLFaria (24 Jan 2016)

Great post, thanks.
Be aware that, as LV state in their instructions, there may be some dimensional diferences, both between nominally sized Stanley planes and between actual planes and their plans. Better check this carefully before starting cutting and drilling. Guess how I found out (too late...)

G.


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## Bedrock (24 Jan 2016)

Very helpful post, but I'm am with Racers on this. I reckon that rough shaping with a sharp chisel, followed by rasps and sanding, is quick, peaceful, and less dangerous. Also allows for a little free thinking, if that's what you want.


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## sploo (24 Jan 2016)

No pics from today, but I have achieved:

Hindsight #4: On the pine prototypes I cut the 11.5mm holes for the nuts a bit too deep, so I erred on the side of caution, with the thinking that I could deepen the holes once I'd shaped the totes. That's not a great idea, as it's much harder to safely deepen a hole of that diameter - especially when your centre material is now gone (due to the 7mm bolt hole). I made a (recoverable) mess of one tote in the process. Take home message: it's easy to add a few washers if your holes are too deep.

I also flattened the areas of chip out on the heels; either as a chamfer or in one case I used the edge of the file to create a 90 degree triangular wedge recess. In both cases it's then easy to get a bit of flat square stock and superglue patches in place. I've not finished cleaning those up but I think I've matched the colour and grain sufficiently that they won't be obvious.




Racers":1iq5mmof said:


> I do all my shaping by hand with rasps etc it dosen't take long to do.


I don't trust my carving skills enough to get a decent shape by hand with rasps - hence the use of the router to do the majority of the rounding over.




custard":1iq5mmof said:


> The paragraph about the router table made me shudder though! It would be really quick and simple to make a couple of jigs (one for each side) that held the workpiece with toggle cramps and end stops, but that gave run-in and run-out surfaces for the bearing and also _kept your fingers well away from the cutter_! In fact if you did that accurately enough it would replace the entire bobbin sanding section of the job, you'd just bandsaw 1.5mm oversize and form the final shape plus the round over on the router table. In fact my advice would be, either go the router route complete with jigs, or go the rasp/sanding route, but don't mix the two.


I was in two minds when I wrote the section about using the router table. I've spent way too many hours standing over a router table, so have a pretty good idea of what's likely to happen where. That said, I cringe whenever I see someone get within 6" of a table saw blade, and always use push sticks myself.

I suppose it is a case of familiarity breeding... not contempt, but perhaps not enough caution. With hindsight, some push sticks or blocks with rubber or sandpaper would have worked (you really want to be able to control the totes in terms of pulling them away as well as pushing, so it helps to feather the cuts slightly.

A jig with toggle clamps would also be an excellent idea.

I have been spending some time in recent weeks thinking of the best way to cut these. I have a CNC machine, so with appropriate stock, it would be trivial to get parts to the stage after the bobbin sander (when doing it by hand) - i.e. go from sheet stock straight to cut outs ready for rounding over. With a little more work, it would be possible to do the rounding over on the CNC machine. But the big problem with this is that you wouldn't have any of the drilled holes or pockets, and it'd be much harder to do them on an shaped piece.

I suppose I could cut a jig of the same thickness, with a hole in the middle exactly the shape of the tote (into which you'd place a tote) and with guide holes drilled at the top and bottom of the jig (a bit like a pocket hole jig) you could get accurate drilling into the tote. It's probably only worth the effort if I were batching lots out for sale, but even if I wanted to I still don't think I could make them economically.




GLFaria":1iq5mmof said:


> Be aware that, as LV state in their instructions, there may be some dimensional diferences, both between nominally sized Stanley planes and between actual planes and their plans. Better check this carefully before starting cutting and drilling. Guess how I found out (too late...)


Indeed. My (IRC) 1990s #4 seems to have the main bolt hole at a slightly different angle - but the hole is just wide enough to get away with it. Both the #4 and #5 designs are at least 2mm taller than my originals (my #4 1/2 and #5 1/2 are 1960s vintage). The #4 has a very slightly different curve too.

Another case in point is that I have a couple of spare bolts and nuts for #4 planes from Faithful. The nuts are much more domed on top than any of my planes, so in the same depth hole they would stick out of the top of the tote slightly. All stuff to consider.


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## custard (24 Jan 2016)

sploo":1wji579h said:


> With a little more work, it would be possible to do the rounding over on the CNC machine. But the big problem with this is that you wouldn't have any of the drilled holes or pockets, and it'd be much harder to do them on an shaped piece.



There is another option for drilling the holes.






This was an apprentice piece I made, it's basically an octagonal lamp constructed chiefly by spokeshave. The upright column needed to be drilled to take an electric cable, but drills always drift and wobble over a long length, and there was little room for error. So the best way was to take a length of timber, rip it down the middle, plane the sawn surfaces true, route out a matching groove in each half, and then glue the two halves back together again. The glue line is virtually invisible and you're left with a perfectly centred hole running accurately through the column. It would be possible to make the tote hole using the same principle.

Just a thought.


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## sploo (24 Jan 2016)

custard":3f6h4adn said:


> So the best way was to take a length of timber, rip it down the middle, plane the sawn surfaces true, route out a matching groove in each half, and then glue the two halves back together again. The glue line is virtually invisible and you're left with a perfectly centred hole running accurately through the column. It would be possible to make the tote hole using the same principle.


That's an interesting idea. In the absence of a 5 axis CNC machine, anyway. The only issue might be trying to scoop out half of a 7mm diameter hole from the side for the stub on a #4 casting (though a small bullnose bit might work).

Nice lamp BTW :wink:


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## Vann (25 Jan 2016)

As others have said, I think this is a great tutorial, and I wonder if it shouldn't go into the _tool restoration_ sticky. 

Like _shed9_, I've been intending to make a few new totes myself. About three years ago I bought all the correct size Forstner bits, and the longest 7mm brad point I could find. But, while waiting for international purchases to arrive, I glued my existing totes back together - and am still using them  

Cheers, Vann.


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## n0legs (25 Jan 2016)

That Bubinga is such a pretty wood.
Good WIP =D>


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## Austinisgreat (25 Jan 2016)

Having just picked up several old planes from the bay this is superb information. Thanks to the O/P and also Custard for his usual additional interesting information. I have some rippled sycamore which might just make some nice totes. (Subject to operator error - of course!!) 

Cheers

Andrew


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## Racers (25 Jan 2016)

I did have the idea of making a laminated handle with the middle pieces cross grain to add strength, but I never got round to it.
I would be interesting to see if it works.
Pete


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## AndyT (25 Jan 2016)

Vann":1tbpkiuy said:


> As others have said, I think this is a great tutorial, and I wonder if it shouldn't go into the _tool restoration_ sticky.
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



Agreed, and done.

Don't forget to nominate other useful cleaning and restoration posts for inclusion in the sticky.


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## custard (25 Jan 2016)

Here's a photo of how Bill Ritner holds the tote for router work






Better than holding the workpiece by hand, but there's no lead-in or lead-out, and the angled wedge piece won't make for the most secure grip. Personally I'd still go the toggle cramp route.

Lots of good stuff in Bill's blog and web site by the way,

https://newbritainboy.wordpress.com/page/8/

http://www.hardwarecitytools.com


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## sploo (25 Jan 2016)

n0legs":3i48kpbp said:


> That Bubinga is such a pretty wood.
> Good WIP =D>


It is, though it doesn't smell too good when cutting. I used it as I understood it was a common replacement for rosewood, though it does have quite an orange/pink colour (as opposed to the darker brown of the original handles). I was also recommended tamboti, which might be a better colour but was (more) expensive and is apparently fairly toxic.



Austinisgreat":3i48kpbp said:


> I have some rippled sycamore which might just make some nice totes. (Subject to operator error - of course!!)


The sycamore sounds nice. The issue I have is that I'm not a turner, so I had to rely on my dad to make the front handles from the same stock - but if you can make both parts yourself it'd be a great idea.



Racers":3i48kpbp said:


> I did have the idea of making a laminated handle with the middle pieces cross grain to add strength, but I never got round to it.
> I would be interesting to see if it works.


Pete - it's called plywood :mrgreen: (I'll get back under my bridge - yours, Mr Troll)

Being serious - bubinga handles with a strip of, say, sycamore through the middle might look really nice.


Many thanks to all for the positive words on this one though. There's still a while to go before they're done.

BTW If there was sufficient interest, I suppose I could cut some plywood templates on the CNC machine of the #4 and #5 tote shapes, and that would allow people to easily shape a rough bandsawn blank with a router and a template following bit. You'd still have to glue on the paper template to line up your drill holes and pockets, then round over the edges, but it would likely save a bit of work. If there's interest I could try to knock up a suitable CAD file.


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## sploo (25 Jan 2016)

custard":1yuhmgj4 said:


> Here's a photo of how Bill Ritner holds the tote for router work


That's a pretty good idea though. A simple (and safe) solution is better than a great jig you don't have.

I'd glue a small piece of fine sandpaper to the wedge, and that should make the grip pretty good. Alternatively, if you haven't fully drilled the holes in the bottom you could use a small screw through the wedge into a pilot hole at the bottom of the tote.

In fact, if you had drilled the holes, you could even slip a suitably long countersunk M6 bolt through the wedge and up into the 7mm bolt hole - it wouldn't be perfect, but it'd prevent the wedge slipping off the tote under pressure from the clamp.

EDIT: Though again looking at the photo: I'd _really_ prefer to see a table insert around that router bit. That's a gaping hole in the table, and if the tote slipped down a bit - enough to get caught between the router bit and the edge of the hole - the results would be very messy.


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## Woody2Shoes (25 Jan 2016)

custard":gm6tn2yq said:


> sploo":gm6tn2yq said:
> 
> 
> > With a little more work, it would be possible to do the rounding over on the CNC machine. But the big problem with this is that you wouldn't have any of the drilled holes or pockets, and it'd be much harder to do them on an shaped piece.
> ...




I've seen this kind of shape at the barnsley workshop and wondered how they were made - would I be right in thinking that the octagonal facets on the base are simply shaped with a spokeshave? Cheers, W2S


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## custard (25 Jan 2016)

Woody2Shoes":3flh1um7 said:


> I've seen this kind of shape at the barnsley workshop and wondered how they were made - would I be right in thinking that the octagonal facets on the base are simply shaped with a spokeshave? Cheers, W2S



Basically yes, the gross stock removal can be done by machine, but the actual shaping is just you and a spokeshave. I'd tell you more but we should keep this as a tote thread not a spokeshave thread!


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## MIGNAL (25 Jan 2016)

I too used Bubinga when I restored my stanley No.4. Cheaper than Rosewood and just as good. Mine was blander looking than your stripey stuff. 
I honestly can't remember how I drilled the hole. I only had a cordless drill at the time so I think used an oversized piece of wood and referenced everything from the resulting hole. . . . I guess.


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## D_W (25 Jan 2016)

MIGNAL":zctwwx2t said:


> I too used Bubinga when I restored my stanley No.4. Cheaper than Rosewood and just as good. Mine was blander looking than your stripey stuff.
> I honestly can't remember how I drilled the hole. I only had a cordless drill at the time so I think used an oversized piece of wood and referenced everything from the resulting hole. . . . I guess.



I have probably (not recently, but in the past) made a dozen handles for planes before getting interested in building entire planes - made them out of indian rosewood, cocobolo and macassar ebony (whatever was inexpensive in the shorts bin at the local plastic/MDF/Aluminum junk and dust collector woodworking chain). A friend and I tried drilling with a long reach bit and a drill press setup, but always had wander problems. I found it a lot easier just to use a cordless drill and drill from both sides of the handle, meeting in the middle, with a marked line on the handle as a visual cue.

Always shaped them with a rasp, file and then sandpaper, and never had one that needed to be thrown away from that. The templates are nice, but often don't create a handle that is flush fitted all the way around with the base on a given plane.


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## Racers (25 Jan 2016)

I reground a long drill bit into a brad point bit and it seems to be very good at going straight.

Pete


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## ED65 (25 Jan 2016)

Is it a crazy idea to bore the holes using an auger bit in a brace or would that still be prone to wandering?


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## D_W (25 Jan 2016)

It can still wander (the brace). 

The challenge will be if you use something really hard, getting the brace to bite all the way through. 

Auger bits might be too wide for most shaft diameters, too. The hole that the rod goes through doesn't need to be that precise and clean. The hole that the boss sits in does since you see the top of it.


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## sploo (25 Jan 2016)

D_W":19287c92 said:


> The hole that the rod goes through doesn't need to be that precise and clean. The hole that the boss sits in does since you see the top of it.


Indeed. With the handle thickness of 15/16" (about 24mm) you could probably get away with drilling a pretty fat hole all the way down - it just needs to be a smaller diameter than the boss/nut/washer (~11.5mm) at the top of the bolt so it's got something to press on.

As noted, the hole for the front screw (#5) and pockets for the stubs on the plane body (#4) do need to be accurate. On the #4 you don't want to be off by more than 0.5mm or you'll have problems.


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## ED65 (26 Jan 2016)

D_W":21pmgme8 said:


> It can still wander (the brace).


I'm going to have to experiment drilling into end grain, see how much deflection I experience. My augers are all solid-centre, supposed to be better at this than Jennings-pattern, so I wouldn't have thought there'd be much problem.

As to the diameter, well obviously I was assuming the maker had a bit of a suitable size  It's just blind luck but of the few auger bits I currently own one happens to be about the right diameter.



D_W":21pmgme8 said:


> The hole that the rod goes through doesn't need to be that precise and clean. The hole that the boss sits in does since you see the top of it.


My wording was sloppy, I meant using the auger for the through hole only. But actually my auger bits usually drill cleaner entry holes than other bits of similar size so they wouldn't be a terrible choice, assuming you could get the alignment dead on.


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## Bedrock (26 Jan 2016)

Going back to your problem with the bottom face breaking out, surely it would be simpler to take a sharp chisel to those corners, to close to the finished profile, before routing, much as you would if you are planing end grain?
One of my several projects in hand, is making a rear handle for a new plane in American Black Walnut. I am thinking that I will bore the blank with a hole for the rod from the bottom to about 15mm from the top, before final shaping. Cut off the top 25mm., plane both faces to a fine mating surface, then use one of the blind rivets that are sold in engineering outlets, glued into the short bit. These blind rivets are sold with a variety of internal threads, only metric. Some - those that Axminster sell, have a coarse external thread for screwing into the recess, rather than gluing. Glue the two pieces of the handle back together and finish to the final shape.
This way, the top of the handle has no nut showing, which is fine if you are not worried about matching a Bailey design, or making from new. If, as described above, the main hole is oversize, you have enough wiggle room to ensure the bolt lines up with the rivet. All you are aiming for is to strengthen the handle by putting it in tension.


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## sploo (26 Jan 2016)

Bedrock":3bqj4puq said:


> Going back to your problem with the bottom face breaking out, surely it would be simpler to take a sharp chisel to those corners, to close to the finished profile, before routing, much as you would if you are planing end grain?


If you got the ends of the tote (that are at risk of chip out on the router) exactly to shape then yes, that'd work. What I found with bubinga is that even a bit of material to remove can cause chipping, so it is probably better to just leave a few mm of material on top and below the tote, allow that to chip, then cut it off (or have some suitably shaped material supporting the ends to avoid chip out). Or just shape the whole thing by hand of course.




Bedrock":3bqj4puq said:


> One of my several projects in hand, is making a rear handle for a new plane in American Black Walnut. I am thinking that I will bore the blank with a hole for the rod from the bottom to about 15mm from the top, before final shaping. Cut off the top 25mm., plane both faces to a fine mating surface, then use one of the blind rivets that are sold in engineering outlets, glued into the short bit. These blind rivets are sold with a variety of internal threads, only metric. Some - those that Axminster sell, have a coarse external thread for screwing into the recess, rather than gluing. Glue the two pieces of the handle back together and finish to the final shape.
> This way, the top of the handle has no nut showing, which is fine if you are not worried about matching a Bailey design, or making from new. If, as described above, the main hole is oversize, you have enough wiggle room to ensure the bolt lines up with the rivet. All you are aiming for is to strengthen the handle by putting it in tension.


I can't quite picture how you're going to then screw the handle into plane sole?


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## Bedrock (26 Jan 2016)

Yes, you are absolutely right - I was being blinkered on my own project where the handle will be fixed from below. One of those fancy Festool gadgets though?

Haven't used Bubinga so I don't know how fragile it is. Although I own two routers, I virtually never use them, preferring the satisfaction of hand work. Although time is not a factor for me, I wonder how long it takes to set up a router, with jigs, if safety dictates, against by hand. I seem to recall one of Karl Holtey's "Window into my Workshop" posts where he described making plane handles with a combination of machinery and handwork, and reckoning it took him at least a day. I know his standards are exceptional, but that seems a long time.


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## bugbear (26 Jan 2016)

Racers":826syysp said:


> I did have the idea of making a laminated handle with the middle pieces cross grain to add strength, but I never got round to it.
> I would be interesting to see if it works.
> Pete



It was done, historically; I've seen at least one example, which I think I've mentioned.

(search)

Yep.

post482059.html?hilit=%20laminated%20blade#p482059

BugBear


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## D_W (26 Jan 2016)

ED65":2bit6ais said:


> D_W":2bit6ais said:
> 
> 
> > It can still wander (the brace).
> ...



Yeah, alignment dead on is a pretty stringent condition - if it's off a little then one hole is dead centered and the other is off enough to see - either by the handle being out of line on the base or by the hole for the brass nut at the top of the handle being in a bad place. The drilling by hand with a cordless drill is not as precise inside the handle, but it ensures that the holes top and bottom are in the right place. 

Let us know how it goes. Because of the pressure that the rod exerts on the handle, it's one place where the internals of the rod hole don't have to be that precise. On something like a 4 where there is no front screw, it still doesn't need to be that precise except that the ends need to be marked at the angle dead on with the handle rod or the handle won't stay flush due to the lack of a front screw. 

I've never tried to swap handles on any of my planes where I made a handle, but often wondered exactly what the replacement handles look like on a plane, if they generally fit flush everywhere or if they don't and nobody cares that they don't.


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## AndyT (26 Jan 2016)

Trying to follow Bedrock's post about fixing a handle from below... I think maybe this is the sort of thing you mean? Seen here on the under-loved 1970s Record 044C which at least won't need a screw through the sole like a smoother would.







A threaded metal insert is moulded into the handle. A countersunk screw fits into this from below. Beside it, a tapered pin (moulded as part of the handle, but it could easily be an inserted rivet) fits into a second hole.






Incidentally, I made a replacement wooden handle for this plane. It looks big and clumsy, because it is, but I have adjusted it to fit my hand, which it does. I just hot-glued a nylon wall plug in place for the bigger screw and used a plasterboard screw for the secondary fixing, which is good in the end grain. I offer this in case anyone else is feeling inadequate for not having inch thick boards of decorative bubinga, chunks of ivory, unicorn horn, etc! :wink:


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## Bedrock (26 Jan 2016)

Andy
In principle yes, but I have in mind that the rod from below is nearly the full height of the rear handle, so that the whole handle can be put into tension. More applicable to wood handles than the 044c as the plastic was probably stronger.
I bought a Stanley Bedrock 5 1/2 some years ago, and the only fault was that the top of the tote was broken off and missing. I planed it flat, glued on an unshaped rosewood top piece, drilled through from the u/s, and then finished to shape. Hence, I had the thought that if I drilled from the u/s virtually through to the top, then cut off the top say 25mm. Plane both faces to mate, enlarge the hole in the top piece to take what I am calling a blind rivet, glue all back together then carry out the final shaping and finishing. That way, there is no nut showing on the top of the handle. As Sploo rapidly pointed out, this would not work with a Bailey design. 
As I understood Sploo's description, he had some problems with drilling a clean hole from the top, without break out of the top hole. Presumably, if the blank handle was overlong, you could carry out all the drilling from the top, then finish to the final profile, carefully cutting away any areas of breakout. 
If you are working from new however, fixing from below could well be a solution. Doesn't the Holtey no 98 fix from the u/s, using a steel shoe bolted on top of the sole and overhanging the rear of the sole to allow bolting the handle from below?
I have in the past used s/s Allen bolts, self-tapped directly into end grain, on the legs of a coffee table, and have stood on it without problems. May not appeal to the more purist amongst us, but could work as well, without the faff of cutting the top and re-gluing. 
If you google the Lazarus Planes website, you will see some interesting approaches to rear handles, including laminating vertically, with a brass central laminate, and totes in three pieces of contrasting timbers, glued together horizontally. I seem to recall the the designs, which vary from interesting to downright odd, did not appeal to BB. Food for thought though.
I would do a drawing, but my last effort with posting photos brought out my innate conflicts with modern electronics, and went to southern France to intelligent daughter, and back, to resolve camera issues, resizing etc..

Mike


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## sploo (26 Jan 2016)

Bedrock":2i7ngn9x said:


> I bought a Stanley Bedrock 5 1/2 some years ago, and the only fault was that the top of the tote was broken off and missing. I planed it flat, glued on an unshaped rosewood top piece, drilled through from the u/s, and then finished to shape. Hence, I had the thought that if I drilled from the u/s virtually through to the top, then cut off the top say 25mm. Plane both faces to mate, enlarge the hole in the top piece to take what I am calling a blind rivet, glue all back together then carry out the final shaping and finishing. That way, there is no nut showing on the top of the handle. As Sploo rapidly pointed out, this would not work with a Bailey design.


Ah... so you can put a screw up from the bottom on the Bedrock planes? I didn't know that (but that makes sense re your idea).



Bedrock":2i7ngn9x said:


> As I understood Sploo's description, he had some problems with drilling a clean hole from the top, without break out of the top hole.


Actually no - that didn't cause any problems at all. With a sharp bit all the drilling was nice and clean, and after bandsawing the shape out and sanding it you'd obviously get a nice clean top entry hole even if you did get some tearout.

The issue I had was that I had to go back and deepen them. It turned out to not be that difficult on the drill press, but I was worried it might snatch, so I initially tried a method by hand, and it was that one that worked badly. Basically you "just" need to ensure the original hole is perfectly lined up with the drill bit, have everything clamped down, then go very gently.

Lazarus Planes - bonkers. Brilliant. Very steampunk. Love 'em.


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## bugbear (27 Jan 2016)

custard":f8dxvuet said:


> So the best way was to take a length of timber, rip it down the middle, plane the sawn surfaces true, route out a matching groove in each half, and then glue the two halves back together again. The glue line is virtually invisible and you're left with a perfectly centred hole running accurately through the column.



Watching Ray Mears, it turns out that this is how a tribe in the South American jungle make 8 foot (and more) blow pipes!

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (27 Jan 2016)

Hmm. . ,. that reminds me. I think the Bubinga handles that I did were from 2 x 2 turning blanks. I don't remember buying Bubinga in larger dimensions, which probably means that I drilled the hole in 2 or 3 pieces and then joined the pieces after. 
Anyway it worked and is still going strong.


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## sploo (27 Jan 2016)

MIGNAL":367i8135 said:


> Hmm. . ,. that reminds me. I think the Bubinga handles that I did were from 2 x 2 turning blanks. I don't remember buying Bubinga in larger dimensions, which probably means that I drilled the hole in 2 or 3 pieces and then joined the pieces after.
> Anyway it worked and is still going strong.


Nice. Mine came from turning blanks too - but 200x200x50mm (x2). I cut two 200x50x50 lengths for the front handles (one from each blank), and ripped one remaining 200x150x50 block into a pair of 200x150x25 (OK, just under 25mm) slabs, then planed them smooth. Unfortunately the other blank (after planing the outside) was too thin to get two 15/16" slabs, so I've left it for other projects.


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## Bedrock (27 Jan 2016)

Sploo

Sorry, I seem to be over-complicating. What I was trying to say was that for Bailey designs, clearly you have to bolt from the top. If you are building from new, then the design could accommodate the fixing from below, as with the 044 and the Holtey 98.

I agree with your comments on the Lazarus range. Highly original, entertaining, obviously very heavy and somewhat over-complicated, not always practical. Makes you wonder what he would do with a screwdriver. Wonder how they perform-I suspect that they are mostly for final finishing. You wouldn't need a gym membership.

Mignal - looks great.


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## sploo (27 Jan 2016)

Bedrock":rogr0x7o said:


> Sploo
> 
> Sorry, I seem to be over-complicating. What I was trying to say was that for Bailey designs, clearly you have to bolt from the top. If you are building from new, then the design could accommodate the fixing from below, as with the 044 and the Holtey 98.
> 
> ...


No worries & understood. Yea on the Lazarus planes; I think I'd be too afraid to use one in fear of scratching it (I'd just put it on the mantelpiece)!.


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## Planebasics (29 Jan 2016)

A fairly simple method to drill a hole in a plane tote- since I can't post a link or domain/page references the method can hopefully be found in an article by Neil Mitchell 'How I Drill Holes in Plane Totes by Neil Mitchell.'


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## sploo (29 Jan 2016)

Planebasics":1dfs45iq said:


> A fairly simple method to drill a hole in a plane tote- since I can't post a link or domain/page references the method can hopefully be found in an article by Neil Mitchell 'How I Drill Holes in Plane Totes by Neil Mitchell.'


Assuming you mean this: http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/ ... gTotes.htm

That's a good method - it ensures the drilling angle is consistent; though obviously you could still misalign the holes (not that it's hugely critical).

One small problem is that you would need a reasonable amount of extra stock, and with bubinga being pretty expensive I didn't want to have much waste material.


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## Planebasics (30 Jan 2016)

*Sploo wrote*


> Assuming you mean this:


etc.
Yes that's it. Have to try it myself perhaps with cherry. I assume cherry would be strong enough?


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## ED65 (30 Jan 2016)

Planebasics":3ucic3rx said:


> I assume cherry would be strong enough?


Yes, almost any hardwood would be strong enough, softwoods too in fact. In short sections most woods are surprisingly strong.

When it comes to tool handles once you get past just being strong enough not to break in use durability is about how the wood resists bumps and scrapes and it's here that the much harder woods come into their own, hence the excellent condition of rosewood handles 100+ years old. But you could make quite a durable plane tote and front knob using the right piece of pine.


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## ED65 (30 Jan 2016)

sploo":3oaruvic said:


> One small problem is that you would need a reasonable amount of extra stock, and with bubinga being pretty expensive I didn't want to have much waste material.


Not necessarily, make what would be the waste block from pine. Or MDF for that matter


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## sploo (30 Jan 2016)

ED65":413zxgx1 said:


> Not necessarily, make what would be the waste block from pine. Or MDF for that matter


Yes, that's a fair point. Thinking about the piece of stock (that would contain the tote) and the size of the waste material around the ones I did you might just about have enough to cut a straight line at an angle on the top to use for the last drilling operation when it's upside down. There wouldn't be that much to rest on though.

What I did was simply put the pieces in a drill press vice and lower the drill bit in front of the piece (checking it against the relevant line on the template). It didn't take much to get the pieces at the right angle before drilling.


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## Planebasics (1 Feb 2016)

> ED65 wrote





> Yes, almost any hardwood would be strong enough,


Thanks, another job to try and fit in so.


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## sploo (19 Feb 2016)

Progress.

I'd used rasps and files to do the final shaping some time ago. I shaped the #4 handles to be similar to the plastic handle from my modern #4, but I've noticed that the older #4 model often has a really thin top rear (somewhat like a horn). I really like that, but it would be more vulnerable to damage.

I decided to attack the top/rear section again. I didn't want to take out too much, but in comparison to the unmodified one below it is a bit thinner:








Lots of sanding later, we have a full compliment of two #4 handles, two #4 1/2 / #5 / #5 1/2 handles, two tall knobs and two short knobs (the knobs were turned by my dad). On the left are a beech pair from a Record #3:







And wiped down with some white spirit:







A DIY clamp with some M6 bolts and nuts re-purposed as a stand (in the background you can see some of the original handles and knobs, now sanded):







First coat of Danish Oil - looking good:







24 hours later, a light rub with some 0000 steel wool, and coat #2 now looking really good:











The DO images above are wet (so very shiny). However, I've noticed that even once dry, they're much better than the test pieces I'd done. I think I probably didn't spent enough time sanding the test blocks to the same surface finish as the actual handles and knobs.

Unfortunately the beech front knob and rear handle came out different colours once oiled. I understand they would have originally been stained dark brown (a previous owner had removed the coating before I bought the #3).

I've got some brown leather dye that I've mixed with shellac that I'm going to use on the old handles and knobs; as whilst they've sanded off OK the actual wood isn't that impressive, and they're a bit patchy - hence I felt a dyed shellac would be better than DO. I'll just use the tinted shellac on the beech parts and leave the single coat of DO on. I don't immediately need the other handles (apart from one pair for a #4 1/2, and the beech ones for the #3) but it seemed a good idea to restore them as they might prove useful in the future.


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## ED65 (20 Feb 2016)

sploo":3v42b2wf said:


> The DO images above are wet (so very shiny). However, I've noticed that even once dry, they're much better than the test pieces I'd done. I think I probably didn't spent enough time sanding the test blocks to the same surface finish as the actual handles and knobs.


Yes how finely you prepare the surface makes a very big difference with any penetrating finish.

Your handles look excellent! Congrats to you and your dad.


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## sploo (20 Feb 2016)

ED65":10lnfd5b said:


> sploo":10lnfd5b said:
> 
> 
> > The DO images above are wet (so very shiny). However, I've noticed that even once dry, they're much better than the test pieces I'd done. I think I probably didn't spent enough time sanding the test blocks to the same surface finish as the actual handles and knobs.
> ...


Thanks. The third coat went on today, and I think that's enough given I'll shellac them. I'll leave them to cure for a week now though.

I've only got ready mixed shellac, but a 2:1 ratio of shellac (Chestnut Sanding Sealer, IRC) to Fiebings Dark Brown leather dye seems to be good. A few coats, followed by a full strength of just shellac, looks as though it'll be right for the older handles.


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## toitoi (21 Feb 2016)

Everyone's efforts here have given me much food for thought. There is a lot of really good work here. Eventually I want to have a try at making a new handle for my juuma Low Angle Bevel up Plane. (The handle is a bit small for my hand) I think I need a band-saw first though.


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## ED65 (21 Feb 2016)

toitoi":unk44do2 said:


> Everyone's efforts here have given me much food for thought. There is a lot of really good work here. Eventually I want to have a try at making a new handle for my juuma Low Angle Bevel up Plane. (The handle is a bit small for my hand) I think I need a band-saw first though.


Before there were bandsaws there were coping saws and they are still just as capable of doing the cutting if you don't yet have or can't afford a bandsaw. 

The work will go much slower of course and you'll pay for the difference in price between the two tools in sweat equity! But there shouldn't be any difference in the finished product.


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## sploo (21 Feb 2016)

toitoi":192kanla said:


> Everyone's efforts here have given me much food for thought. There is a lot of really good work here. Eventually I want to have a try at making a new handle for my juuma Low Angle Bevel up Plane. (The handle is a bit small for my hand) I think I need a band-saw first though.


As ED65 notes, you don't _need_ a bandsaw. I think you'd really need a drill press to get the long bolt hole accurate, so that can be used with Forstner bits for the inside curves. A coping saw would then handle the rest of the curves. Though, you could even rough cut with a tenon saw and carefully chisel out the curves (chisel needs to be really sharp though).


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## n0legs (21 Feb 2016)

sploo":ct49zyj3 said:


> .



That's gorgeous =D>


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## sploo (21 Feb 2016)

The third coat of Danish Oil has had 24 hours to dry, so those handles have now been set aside to cure. Tonight I put a first coat of the dyed shellac on the old (scraped and sanded) handles, and I'm amazed how well they've turned out with just a single application:











I have a pine test block (bottom left in the first image) that I was using to try the mix. I think that three dyed coats followed by a near full strength clear shellac coat works well. I use the same dyed brush and transfer a little of the dyed shellac to the clear as both a thinner and a mild tint. I felt the 2:1 shellac:dye mix is a bit thin in terms of build without that final coat.

Based on how they're turning out, had I known they'd look that good I might not have bothered making the bubinga handles, but I'm glad I did as I've learned a lot in the process.

BTW In the jar in the above images is approx 48g of Chestnut Sanding Sealer (shellac) and 22g of Fiebings Dark Brown leather dye (nearly 2:1). There's easily enough to do the handles and more, and given the dye is £6 for 118ml, it's a dirt cheap mix.


Finally, here are the dried bubinga handles (a rather fuzzy pic unfortunately):






Once the new handles have had a week to cure, I'll put a coat of clear shellac on them, and then wax them along with the old handles. Then I guess I'll actually need to use the planes to make something :wink: 




n0legs":dstyjizd said:


> That's gorgeous =D>


Thanks! I am a bit surprised frankly. I'm still waiting for Captain self generated mistake to appear!


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## n0legs (21 Feb 2016)

sploo":shn77h6w said:


> n0legs":shn77h6w said:
> 
> 
> > That's gorgeous =D>
> ...



Now don't think like that :wink: I reckon you've got this handle/knob refinishing beat =D>


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## sploo (22 Feb 2016)

n0legs":3jxlmvk7 said:


> Now don't think like that :wink: I reckon you've got this handle/knob refinishing beat =D>


Plenty of time to screw it up dear boy :wink:

Normally I'll get something just about finished... then drop it on the floor and damage it. I don't think I'd even used my Veritas Router Plane before I managed to drop one of the handles on the floor and dent it #-o


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## toitoi (22 Feb 2016)

sploo":ug1fdupb said:


> toitoi":ug1fdupb said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone's efforts here have given me much food for thought. There is a lot of really good work here. Eventually I want to have a try at making a new handle for my juuma Low Angle Bevel up Plane. (The handle is a bit small for my hand) I think I need a band-saw first though.
> ...



I had that same thought, but there goes the excuse to buy a small bandsaw! #-o 
I have had my eye on one at a local tool handler. It is not too big and seems to do what I want. It is manufactured by Holzmann in Austria. Has anyone here had experience with this brand? My biggest problem is room for a machine. I have a smallish hobby room in the attic.

I guess the thought of using a coping saw for the cuts is just scaring me off a little. I need to finish my bench first though, then on to projects like this.

I do have a bench top drill press already and forstner bits so that part isn't an issue.

I need to source some kind of hardwood locally for a decent handle.


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## toitoi (22 Feb 2016)

sploo":31av4ez7 said:


> n0legs":31av4ez7 said:
> 
> 
> > Now don't think like that :wink: I reckon you've got this handle/knob refinishing beat =D>
> ...



Doesn't that just give it some character? Usage marks just say to me when I see them, "This is a tool that is used for its intended purpose".


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## sploo (22 Feb 2016)

toitoi":a6g8sv1w said:


> I had that same thought, but there goes the excuse to buy a small bandsaw! #-o
> I have had my eye on one at a local tool handler. It is not too big and seems to do what I want. It is manufactured by Holzmann in Austria. Has anyone here had experience with this brand? My biggest problem is room for a machine. I have a smallish hobby room in the attic.
> 
> I guess the thought of using a coping saw for the cuts is just scaring me of a little. I need to finish my bench first though, then on to projects like this.
> ...


TBH A coping saw will be less "scary" than a bandsaw; in the sense that it's entirely under your control. With either tool I find it's a good idea to undercut (i.e. a couple of mm away from the line) then do final shaping with a sander or rasps and files - it's all too easy to slip and overcut if you try to get close.

I don't know the Holzmann brand. I did have a tiny desktop bandsaw many years ago. Obviously they're not exactly industrial quality, but they're perfectly good for cutting out shapes.

For material; see if there are any woodturning shops or timber yards - or better yet a wood recycling centre. I would recommend making a prototype from pine first to iron out mistakes (it helped me a lot).




toitoi":a6g8sv1w said:


> Doesn't that just give it some character? Usage marks just say to me when I see them, "This is a tool that is used for its intended purpose".


I'm fairly certain Veritas didn't intend their plane to be bounced across a concrete floor by someone with the dexterity of a drunken ape :mrgreen:


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## toitoi (22 Feb 2016)

sploo":19olys0z said:


> toitoi":19olys0z said:
> 
> 
> > I had that same thought, but there goes the excuse to buy a small bandsaw! #-o
> ...



Every village here has a saw mill. But they mostly only have pine and once in a while some Beech. The other hardwoods have been depleted from the forests here over the centuries. Sadly.
The saw I am contemplating is a floor standing model.
My "fear" of the coping saw has nothing to do with safety and more to do with my abilities!


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## Bedrock (22 Feb 2016)

tt - If you don't like the idea of a coping saw, (and it's not really a scary tool), use your bench drill, with Forstner bits to take out the main internal curves, then take out the rest of the waste on the outside curves, again with a smaller Forstner bit. As long as you can hold the workpiece down, I don't think you should have a problem. Don't go too close to your finished line, and remove the rest with a sharp chisel. Finish with a rasp, or, if you don't have one yet, at a pinch, a coarse metal file will do., then abrasives, sand paper or whatever.
The good part about all this is you can take it at your own pace, and take incremental cuts until you are satisfied. You will learn a lot about tool handling on the way.


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## sploo (22 Feb 2016)

toitoi":3rqj3frk said:


> Every village here has a saw mill. But they mostly only have pine and once in a while some Beech. The other hardwoods have been depleted from the forests here over the centuries. Sadly.
> The saw I am contemplating is a floor standing model.
> My "fear" of the coping saw has nothing to do with safety and more to do with my abilities!


A coping saw will take more effort, but you'll find that it's very easy to control (especially if you're being careful to stay away from the lines).

Beech will be fine - you could either oil, oil + shellac, or even make a dyed shellac as I've detailed earlier (if you wanted a dark coloured handle). Indeed the handles from the Record #3 I have are beech.

For bandsaws - have you seen Matthias Wandel's designs? It would be a lot of work to build one, but if you were looking to spend ~500 euros on a commercial machine I suspect you'd get a much better saw by building rather than buying.


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## BenCviolin (22 Feb 2016)

Making your own handle / tote takes ages if you do it well and to be honest, not worth the time taken. 
That said, you can at least design the desired angle, if for example the tote on a Stanley 4 is too tight
for your hand to fit etc. You'll have to bend the tote screw though.


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## sploo (22 Feb 2016)

BenCviolin":3ptzr19j said:


> Making your own handle / tote takes ages if you do it well and to be honest, not worth the time taken.
> That said, you can at least design the desired angle, if for example the tote on a Stanley 4 is too tight
> for your hand to fit etc. You'll have to bend the tote screw though.


If the tote were too large then you could just file down the existing (not useful if it's too small, obviously).

As for changing the angle - the "beauty" of Stanley is the near random choice of threads and designs; pretty much every plane I have has a differing tote design. Indeed the Veritas templates seem to have the main screw at a subtly different angle to one of my #4 models. However, the suggested drill hole size does allow a little "wiggle room".

It is a lot of work to make them though. I have a CNC machine, and the problem is that even cutting a basic 2D shape would still leave all the shaping and drill holes. I was thinking of making a jig into which a CNC machined tote would fit (a bit like a pocket hole jig, to guide your drill bit cuts) but I don't really need to make more so haven't got around to it.


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## toitoi (22 Feb 2016)

Thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate your comments and I guess I need to just get on with it and stop finding Reasons why not. 

But as I said earlier, I need to finish my bench first. Bit hard to make anything without a solid work surface. (Have you ever noticed, while building a bench, you actually really need a bench to do the job properly!)


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## ED65 (22 Feb 2016)

toitoi":v8alp8qa said:


> I guess the thought of using a coping saw for the cuts is just scaring me off a little. I need to finish my bench first though, then on to projects like this.


You could try an alternate method:







As you can see after the drilling and saw cuts are all done there's a trivial amount of wood left to remove by rasping (or come to think of it, by whittling or paring if preferred).


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## ED65 (22 Feb 2016)

BenCviolin":3m3ptjey said:


> Making your own handle / tote takes ages if you do it well and to be honest, not worth the time taken.


Eh? I don't see how it _couldn't _be worth the time taken if it's the difference between the plane being a comfortable user and a bit of a drag to handle every time it's used. Related blog post.

The handle might last the plane for a century of use, just as commercial ones do, seeing it through the ownership of three or four further users. I'd consider that time very well spent 8)


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## bugbear (22 Feb 2016)

toitoi":30jaz3t0 said:


> But as I said earlier, I need to finish my bench first. Bit hard to make anything without a solid work surface. (Have you ever noticed, while building a bench, you actually really need a bench to do the job properly!)



I know what you're saying, but it's only partially true.

Most of the parts of a bench are big enough that they're rigid enough not to need continuous support when planing,
and heavy enough not to move when being sawn or chiseled.

So you can (probably...) make a bench using trestles.

I build my bench on a B&D Workmate.

BugBear


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## sploo (22 Feb 2016)

ED65":k7oty8i8 said:


> You could try an alternate method:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yea, that was my reference to "Though, you could even rough cut with a tenon saw and carefully chisel out the curves" in an earlier post. E.g. make straight cuts to get close, then smooth out.


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## toitoi (22 Feb 2016)

bugbear":3i4ttigd said:


> toitoi":3i4ttigd said:
> 
> 
> > But as I said earlier, I need to finish my bench first. Bit hard to make anything without a solid work surface. (Have you ever noticed, while building a bench, you actually really need a bench to do the job properly!)
> ...



You are absolutely correct there. I have built my bench using a 3x4 foot piece of Plastic laminate covered lumber core sitting on two cheap flimsy wooden trestles and an old B&D Workmate. Thus the wish for a real workbench to make my bench with. It is standing on its own and is most ways fastened together. Still needs a lot of 3/4 inch holes drilled for the Holdfasts to be of any use. I keep getting sidetracked and never seem to stay on track to get it finished. I need to get it done so I can make a Handle now. So maybe that will get me moving.


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## sploo (4 Mar 2016)

So. Finally, I'm done.

I put three coats of the dyed shellac on the old handles, and two coats of thinned clear shellac (3 parts Chestnut Sanding sealer, 1 part meths) on the bubinga handles. I then applied two coats of Chestnut Microcrystalline Wax.

I decided to break out the "proper camera" to take some photos, had everything outside ready to fit the new handles, planes in bits, nice and sunny... and then it started to snow #-o. Fortunately that didn't last long, so I was eventually able to get some shots.

The new totes and knobs:






















The old totes and knobs (second from right are the beech handles from the Record #3; hence they're a little lighter):












Some expectant planes:







Although I finished all the old handles, I only needed the handles for the Record #3 and my 1960s Stanley #4 1/2:







My WWII #4 and recent (probably 1990s) #4:







My WWII #4 1/2 and 1960s #5 1/2:







And finally, a whole load of shots of the collection:


























Now I need to actually use them to make something I guess!


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## n0legs (4 Mar 2016)

They look gorgeous, well done =D>


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## Bm101 (5 Mar 2016)

Outstanding Sploo. Great thread.


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## shed9 (5 Mar 2016)

Such a difference, appreciate you posting these up.


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## lurker (5 Mar 2016)

Excellent

=D> =D> =D>


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## OM99 (8 Mar 2016)

They look stunning.

=D> =D> =D> =D> 

Oli


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## Farm Labourer (2 Jan 2020)

This topic has inspired me, thank you all!


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