# Project Number 1 - Garden bench - COMPLETED



## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

Ok, so I've bought one of these :





(which I still have to check the set-up on) 


and one of these :






So I thought to myself, what is the simplest thing I can make to try them out. Answer is to make new slats for this : 






so today I went to Interesting Timber (just outside Bath) and bought four of these : 






so the question is, how do I start ? My guess would be :
1. roughly cut the planks to length leaving 5 cms each end spare for now
2. then cut them in half lengthways into slats sort widths
3. plane a wide face
4. then plane a narrow edge referencing the wide face
5. then plane the second narrow edge (again referencing the wide face)
6. then thickness accordingly

am I on the right track ?


Paul


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## Waka (20 May 2008)

Paul

You could do it the way you have suggested, myself I would tackle it this way.

Cut to length as you suggested leaving an overlap.
Thickness the planks to the required thickness
Reference both edges on the jointer
Rip the wood on the bandsaw using the refernce edge ensuring that the cut is slightly over required width.
Reference other edge on the bandsaw until you reach the required edge.

Both methods will get you to the end result, you just need to remember that when you pass it through the bandsaw the edge will require truing.

Hope this helps.


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

thanks for the quick response waka. when you say :



> Rip the wood on the bandsaw using the refernce edge ensuring that the cut is slightly over required width.
> Reference other edge on the bandsaw until you reach the required edge.



won't the bandsaw leave a rough edge ? I thought that I could use the planer for this part to leave a smoother surface (or even the table saw) ?


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## Shultzy (20 May 2008)

Paul, you are on the right track but I would plane the planks before cutting in half. I'm assuming you can plane and thickness the uncut boards

1. roughly cut the planks to length leaving 5 cms each end spare for now.
2. plane a wide face on all boards.
3. plane a narrow edge referencing the wide face on all boards.
4. thickness all boards.
5. cut them in half lengthways into slats widths.
6. plane the narrow edge referencing the wide face on all cut boards.
7. thickness width on all boards.


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## OPJ (20 May 2008)

Normally, with interior furniture, the first thing you will do is to store the timber indoors so that it will dry out and acclimatise before you start machining it. As this is going on a garden bench however, knowing the Interesting Timbers generally sell there timber air-dried (sometimes partially kiln-dried to bring it down just a little bit more), you should be fine to use it as it is.

First thing to do is to have a look at the board for any defects and, yes, cut them over length (50mm each end is very good). If you're intending to rip them on the bandsaw, I'd say you're better off planing a reference face and edge first. On the table saw - which will cut a lot fast, leave a better finish and be more accurate - I don't think it would matter if you rip them all first.

Then, over to the planer to plane a wide face and then use that against the fence to get a reference edge. Once you have both of those, you can look at running them through the thicknesser.

Before you start planing, you'll want to be aware of the grain direction. If you feed and cut against it, you'll get tearout. When you're using the thicknesser for any job, always thickness the widest dimension first so that it's less likely to fall over in the machine. If you were planing to a finish size of 145x20mm say, by thicknessing down to 20mm first the timber would be inclined to fall over as you then feed it through on edge to get 145mm finish.


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## Waka (20 May 2008)

LarryS":2zpuoaop said:


> thanks for the quick response waka. when you say :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Paul

You are absolutely right I should have put jointer instead of bandsaw.


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

Shultzy":1aw1c3dt said:


> Paul, you are on the right track but I would plane the planks before cutting in half. I'm assuming you can plane and thickness the uncut boards
> 
> 1. roughly cut the planks to length leaving 5 cms each end spare for now.
> 2. plane a wide face on all boards.
> ...



shultzy, what do you mean when you say : 4. thickness all boards, and then 7. thickness width on all boards ? Do you mean on point 7 that I should feed the slats through on their narrow edge to get the widths the same ?


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

olly,

you've confused me a bit, what do you mean by :


> When you're using the thicknesser for any job, always thickness the widest dimension first so that it's less likely to fall over in the machine. If you were planing to a finish size of 145x20mm say, by thicknessing down to 20mm first the timber would be inclined to fall over as you then feed it through on edge to get 145mm finish.


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## OPJ (20 May 2008)

Another thing you could do (after cutting over-length) is to skim them through the thicknesser, taking 0.5-1mm off each face, so you can see clearly what grain you have to work with.

One other thing I will say... Looking at the photo' of your planer in position, I would've put the pedals on either end of the machine. You might find they don't get in the way at all, but I'd be wary of tripping over them... :? As long as you know anyway.

When you are surface-planing/jointing, try not to take off any more than 0.5mm in one pass with hardwoods.

If you think this is getting complicated :wink: , then you'd be better off doing any ripping on the table saw for now. Don't know what your experience is with setting up bandsaws, but that's a whole different story. And, I'm guessing it's also fitted with the manufacturer's supplied blade - but, we'll get on to all that another time.


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## OPJ (20 May 2008)

Always thickness the widest dimension first (the width) before finally moving on to the thickness. So, you'd thickness to a finished size of 145mm on edge first, and then, looking at going down to 20mm to get the desired thickness.


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

OPJ":8efvq7w5 said:


> Always thickness the widest dimension first (the width) before finally moving on to the thickness. So, you'd thickness to a finished size of 145mm on edge first, and then, looking at going down to 20mm to get the desired thickness.



understand the bit about thicknessing the wide bit first, but when you say 'down to 20mm to get the desired thickness', do you mean actually put it through sideways on in the thicknesser, or do you mean plane it down to the right width ? 

thanks


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## OLD (20 May 2008)

As this is your first use of the p/t get some rough sawn soft wood and practice flattening the wide face (concave down) then square the edge so that you can adjust the m/c for min snipe and dead square, learn about grain therefor feed direction then thickness (one turn of the handle is a good cut say 1 mm) the finish is better off the thicknesser so flip it over to improve the planed first wide face notice how the wood disappears also if you take a small cut you get the size but also feed roller marks so you have to plan that final sizing cut .Get familiar with the m/c before you do the seat slats also note how the planer chips can be pushed into the wood and spoil the finish if you do not have extraction.
Actually its quite easy with practice.


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## OPJ (20 May 2008)

Whatever the final thickness might be, you should always thickness to the finished _width_ on a board first before thinking about going down to your finished thickness.

So, to once you have your reference face and edge from the surfacer/jointer, you switch the machine over and begin thicknessing by placing the reference edge on to the bed. Once you've reached your desired width, you then place the reference face down on the bed and begin planing down to finished thickness.

There is a technique to getting good results with a surfacer/jointer that may take some practice. That's why you may find it easier to cut the slats out 5-10mm oversize first; if you're new to one of these machines, wide boards can be a bit of a struggle. Also, NEVER pass you hands directly over the cutter block. Lift them up, over and clear of the bridge guard.

You haven't mentioned what timber you bought Paul!  :wink:


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

OPJ":2bi01zul said:


> Whatever the final thickness might be, you should always thickness to the finished _width_ on a board first before thinking about going down to your finished thickness.
> 
> So, to once you have your reference face and edge from the surfacer/jointer, you switch the machine over and begin thicknessing by placing the reference edge on to the bed. Once you've reached your desired width, you then place the reference face down on the bed and begin planing down to finished thickness.
> 
> ...



so what you mean is that the second of the narrow edges is planed by using the thicknesser part of the machine i.e. passed underneath. How is it kept on edge ?


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## Slim (20 May 2008)

Olly, I have found that when passing timber through the thicknesser on edge, it is hit or miss whether you get a square edge.

Paul, I assuming from your post above that you have a tablesaw?

The way I do this is:

Cut to slightly oversize length.
Plane one face taking into account any bowing, cupping and grain direction.
Thickness to required dimension.
Plane one edge to 90 degrees.
Rip to width +1mm referencing planed edge to the fence. (On the tablesaw)
Pass cut edge over the planer to remove 1mm and any saw marks.
Trim to final length.

FEE - Faces, Edges and Ends, in that order.


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## OPJ (20 May 2008)

Ah, yes, I see where you were getting confused now!  

When you're using the planer initially, you only need to form one flat face and one straight edge at 90º to the face. That's all!

So, when you do get to the thicknesser, you feed the timber in planed edge-down carefully and the feed rollers should grab the timber from you, pull it through the machine, through the cutter block to the remove material and the outfeed roller will then come in to play and help it out the other side.

That's why we saw you should leave the timber as thick as possible when it comes to thicknessing the width, otherwise it could topple over as the rollers grab it. Hope you get it now. :wink:


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## LarryS. (20 May 2008)

thanks simon & olly, you've cleared things up a lot for me

old, think thats a good idea of having a go with some rough sawn softwood first, especially as I bought no spare wood for the project !

olly, i went for oak, something nice and simple. Will then treat it with something to preserve the look (don't fancy the natural colour change of oak)


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## Shultzy (20 May 2008)

LarryS":10h01y50 said:


> Shultzy":10h01y50 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul, you are on the right track but I would plane the planks before cutting in half. I'm assuming you can plane and thickness the uncut boards
> ...



That's exactly right. When thicknessing multiple planks don't take off more than 0.5 - 1mm. Each time you reduce the thickness of one plank put all the others through. This guarantees that they will come out the same thickness and you won't strain the thicknesser.


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## OPJ (21 May 2008)

Be aware also that you can only really feed them through one at a time, especially if you're feeding very short lengths (300-400mm) through.

You can however 'stagger' them slightly... After feeding the first board in down one side of the machine, as it comes close to leaving the other end of the machine, you can feed the next piece in on the _opposite side_ of the bed (in terms of width, not length!).

If you try and stick two down the same side too soon then the rollers will only grab one of them and, as it hits the cutter block, the other will be fired back at you (DAMHIKT)! :wink:

Feeding timber evenly across the bed not only reduces uneven wear on the knives but keeps the feed rollers equally 'balanced'.


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## LarryS. (21 May 2008)

thanks olly, tip taken. Now I'll give it a go 

cheers paul


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## OPJ (23 May 2008)

I've just re-read the advice given by Shultzy and Slim previously and have noticed one potential flaw when thicknessing one wide board before ripping it down and cutting out the individual slats...

As you cut in to any length of timber, because of the moisture on the inside (dry to the outside), natural stresses from within can be released - hence the reason why we use a short or withdrawn fence on the table saw.

As you run this wide board through your saw then, there is a chance the timber will curl up and bow as these stresses are therefore released. If you're already at find thickness and therefore cannot remove any more timber, you're stuffed!

In your case, Paul, you're using air-dried timber for an outdoor project; therefore, the moisture content will be slightly higher still (increased chance of movement, etc.). If you haven't started work already (you may be okay if you have...) I'd advise you to cut the individual slats out over size for of all before ANY planing.

This'll also save you the hassle of having to switch back and forth between planing and thicknessing modes several times.


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## LarryS. (1 Jun 2008)

good point olly, i will plane one narrow edge, then table saw and then carry on with the thicknessing e.t.c. (when I get over my holiday)


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## OPJ (1 Jun 2008)

You picked a good time to go away - apart from the last couple of days (excluding today), the weather's been absolutely dung over here! :x 

Have a read through WiZeR's "Finger Tearout" thread before you go near the planer again, that'll teach you to keep your wits about you when you get around to it! :? :shock: :wink:


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## Chems (1 Jun 2008)

This isnt the same method Ive seen used. What Ive understood it as:

1. Plane one wide edge
2. Plane one narrow edge
3. Thickness other wide edge
4. Plane final Narrow edge

Thats just for a single board, is that right?


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## MooreToolsPlease (1 Jun 2008)

Let's say the piece was 76mm x 51mm in section.
If I needed to get 2 pieces 18mm thick out of the original 51mm then I would always rip the board down before I did any planing.
After I ripped it down I would end up with 2 pieces 76 x 23.
Then I would face and edge it (face=76mm edge =23mm)
Then pass it through the thicknesser to achieve 70 x 18.
Thickness down to 70 first, not the 18.

Matt


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## LarryS. (1 Jun 2008)

MooreToolsPlease":3ts0msdj said:


> Let's say the piece was 76mm x 51mm in section.
> If I needed to get 2 pieces 18mm thick out of the original 51mm then I would always rip the board down before I did any planing.
> After I ripped it down I would end up with 2 pieces 76 x 23.
> Then I would face and edge it (face=76mm edge =23mm)
> ...



following the same logic, my understanding is :
If original wood is 150mm wide and 30mm thick
i want two boards out of it which are 60 wide and 20mm thick
then I should plane one of the narrow edges first, then use that as a reference to cut the board in half (so taking it from 150mm wide to 2 x 75mm wide)

then plane and thickness the remaining edges to end up with my final pieces


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## 9fingers (1 Jun 2008)

I've got a very similar job on right now. 20 Iroko slats cut ready to reburbish two benches and a matching table.
Must remember order some stainless steel bolts and find somewhere to shot blast and powder coat the cast iron frames.

Bob


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## MooreToolsPlease (1 Jun 2008)

With those sizes Paul, I wouldn't bother about planing one edge first.
If you need 60mm wide then I would rip the board down twice at about 66mm unless it was very bent.
If I had apiece that was 102mm wide and I want a piece thats 80, I would first edge it and then rip it down at 82mm so only one pass is needed through the thicknesser at 80mm.
I'm a joiner by trade though, so speed is always of the essence in my way of doing things.


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## OPJ (2 Jun 2008)

Always taking in to account the saw kerf before you think about how you're going to rip a length "in half".

On a circular saw/table saw, the kerf is likely to be around 3.2mm (1/8"). On the bandsaw however, I wouldn't have thought it would be any more than 2mm, perhaps only 1.5mm?

This can be an important consideration if you're trying to get the most out of one board with the least amount of wastage.


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## LarryS. (11 Jun 2008)

Ok so an update on progress :

Got the workshops new tools set-up (sort of) :






The original bench : 





Went to interesting timbers and bought some oak to replace it :





So had a barbeque on the weekend, on the friday night it dawned on me that we might not have enoough seats so it finally spurred me into action. First job was to cut the planks from 6ft down to 4ft 6 inches (the final slats would be 4ft, left the 6 inches as slack in-case of tearout (as recommended on the forum, thanks guys  )

Then first proper use of the bandsaw to saw the 6 inch wide planks down to three inches :




there was a very good learning point here, before i cut the planks down the middle I first tried running one through the p/t. Immediately discovered that the board had so many twists that if i did the whole thing in one go it would end up too thin. So therefore I ran it all through the bandsaw.
Then all the planks were run through the p/t, took a lot longer than I expected (about an hour) but got a system going in the end (feed one and then feed the next before the previous one leaves the machine). 
this is a pre-pt shot :






once they were all through and matched the originals I then needed to round them off. That meant I got to use the router table and my new fence that I have built again :




i was chuffed to find how well it worked and how quickly i got them done :





then it was a quick trip up to B&Q to find something to treat it with. Settled on a Ronseal wipe on laquer that promised to bring out the natural beauty of the wood, and I think it did what it said on the tin :




two more coats of the laquer and I fitted the slats on the saturday morning :




not bad compared to the original :




One mistake I made was drilling holes in the back slats. So can anyone tell me the best way to fill 6 holes, all of 5mm diameter ?


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## NeilO (11 Jun 2008)

Paull , if you have a scrap/spare wood, you could knock up a couple of dowels and fill the holes that way, gluing them in the holes allowing to dry then flush cut, sand and finish...

other then that your stuck with wood filler  

HTH


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## Chems (11 Jun 2008)

Fantastic work, the P/T is really easy when you get into isnt it? Looks like you have a lovely workshop too!


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## Tusses (11 Jun 2008)

good job !

as for the holes - dowels .

make some up from some of cuts and glue them in.

I wouldn't go for the wood filler thing - If you dont have any oak left , I think even stock softwood dowel from b&q would look better


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## dennis (12 Jun 2008)

Paul

It look as if there is a bit extra in width overall so if the offcut is not of any use it would pay to straighten both edges then rip down the centre this gives you extra to play with if the boards warp when ripped.

Dennis


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## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

thanks all for the comments. Daft question - how do I make dowels ? Is there a specific tool I need ?


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## Tusses (12 Jun 2008)

rip some square strips and round them over in your router table. keep the end you are holding square so you have a positive flat face on the table and fence.

or - you can turn them if you have a lathe.

or you can round over the edges with a hand plane / block plane

you can mount the square blanks in a drill (make a rough round on the end to fit in the chuck.) and use various grades of sand paper

etc etc 
.....


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## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

Tusses":104ztrqd said:


> rip some square strips and round them over in your router table. keep the end you are holding square so you have a positive flat face on the table and fence.
> 
> or you can round over the edges with a hand plane / block plane



won't a 6mm strip of wood disintegrate on a router table ? (because of the fast moving blade) ? Same with a plane ?




Tusses":104ztrqd said:


> you can mount the square blanks in a drill (make a rough round on the end to fit in the chuck.) and use various grades of sand paper


sounds like my best option.


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## Tusses (12 Jun 2008)

LarryS":3ul3gdhj said:


> Tusses":3ul3gdhj said:
> 
> 
> > rip some square strips and round them over in your router table. keep the end you are holding square so you have a positive flat face on the table and fence.
> ...



I've dont it with oak ok . just dont try and cut too much at once.


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## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

thanks tusses


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## dennis (12 Jun 2008)

Paul

You may wonder what I was going on about with my last post well this morning I was brousing the forum and realised it was almost time to set off for work, I thought I,ll just look at one more topic and saw yours, I got to the bottom of page one and for some reason thought I,ll shove my twopennyworth in so I submitted my post then realised that there was two more pages, looked at the clock and it was time to set off thought,what a plonker and went to work.What I was pointing out in my initial post is that it sometimes pays to waste a little wood in the cutting out stages than to waste even more plus your time and efforts later on.

Dennis


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## OPJ (12 Jun 2008)

Great work Paul, glad to see you've got everything up and running.  

I like the router table fence but you'll probably find you could do with some side-on pressure from featherboards that run in the mitre slot. This'll further improve your accuracy, reduce chances of kickback and ensure your fingers don't need to be anywhere near the spinning cutter.

Rounding over the corners of some 5mm square stock on the router table is probably your best bet. You can buy pre-cut beech dowels but they're generally only available in 6, 8 and 10mm. I'm not sure if you can get a smaller diameter cutter so you'll have to use a portion of a 1/4" (6.35mm) round-over bit. Best to have a couple of spares to get the setting just right.

As long as you have good, even support to the timber around the cutter (your featherboards) then this process should go smoothly. It becomes problematic when there's insufficient support and the timber starts jumping about at each end, which of course ruins the finish.

Another alternative would be to make your own Dowel Plate by drilling a 5mm hole in a piece of steel...? I'm not sure... If you have any sash cramps, check the diameter of the holes as a lot people simply knock square stuff through those to make dowels.

What's your next project going to be??? :wink:


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## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

dennis":2tywrgxt said:


> Paul
> 
> You may wonder what I was going on about with my last post well this morning I was brousing the forum and realised it was almost time to set off for work, I thought I,ll just look at one more topic and saw yours, I got to the bottom of page one and for some reason thought I,ll shove my twopennyworth in so I submitted my post then realised that there was two more pages, looked at the clock and it was time to set off thought,what a plonker and went to work.What I was pointing out in my initial post is that it sometimes pays to waste a little wood in the cutting out stages than to waste even more plus your time and efforts later on.
> 
> Dennis



thanks for the clarification dennis, I read your post about 3 times and couldn't get my head round it, thought either you were drunk or I was !!


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## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

OPJ":wioituat said:


> I like the router table fence but you'll probably find you could do with some side-on pressure from featherboards that run in the mitre slot.
> 
> Rounding over the corners of some 5mm square stock on the router table is probably your best bet.
> What's your next project going to be??? :wink:



I've made some feather-boards so could use them but am stuck on how to cut a strip of 6mm square stock, any suggestions ?

Actually started the next project today, been down to interesting timbers to buy some 1.5 inch thick oak to make a side table like this :
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22847
I'll do a post about it


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## CWatters (13 Jun 2008)

If it's not too late... 

I'd drill the holes a bit bigger and make a feature of them.

I have an idential bench to yours. I painted the iron with a metal paint made by Dulux that I got in Belgium. That was about 10 years ago and it's still sound.


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## OPJ (13 Jun 2008)

Paul, there are several ways you could accurately cut or machine something 6mm square. First, take one of your offcuts (assuming they are much larger in diameter) and plane a face and edge on the planer. Take this semi-prepared piece over to the bandsaw (much safer than the table saw for narrow cuts like this!) and rip off thin piece, referencing the face and then edge against the fence each time.

On a table saw, you may find the finish is good enough to then go straight to the router table. Since the bandsaw is the safer option though, rip it over-size and then run it through the thicknesser. You should just be able to thickness 6mm stuff... If not, then you need to make a simple MDF bed to sit on your thicknesser bed, which effectively raises the depth of cut by 18/19mm.

Don't even think about trying to face and edge anything thin like this as you'll find the results are disappointing and it's also quite dangerous. Much safer to run a wider, thicker board over the planer and cut it out after, like I said. :wink:


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## Tusses (13 Jun 2008)

I'd say just rip 6mm on the table saw - or if you have on a band saw.

then go right over to the router table and use a 1/4 " roundover.

no need to fuss about - only the bit you cut off will be seen !

open up the holes to 1/4" if the dowel is too big - its slightly easier than trying to sand down the dowel. but watch out for tear out.

Rich


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## dennis (13 Jun 2008)

Paul

I could be wrong but I have always known dowel as something that is rounded with the grain such as brush handles and wood that is rounded across the grain as plugs or pellets which is what you need you can buy different sized plug or pellet cutters to use in a drill but you may have to enlarge your holes to suit the available sizes with a forstner bit or router cutter,using dowel you would end up with end grain showing.Unless of course I am wrong which wouldnt be unusual and what I know as plugs or pellets is actually called dowel.


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## OPJ (14 Jun 2008)

Very good point Dennis. Plus or "pellets" are a lot easier to cut than a new length of dowel, if you have the right plug cutter and matching drill bit, of course. You should be able to find a cheap set almost anywhere that'll match up to any drill bits you have, Paul, though I reckon you'll still have to enlarge the existing holes (slowly and carefully).

With a good grain match you can make these "holes" practically inivisible, which is something that wouldn't happen with dowels because of the visible end-grain, as Dennis said.


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## dennis (14 Jun 2008)

Before plug cutters were available we used to cut them by hand we would mark the desired sized circle on wood not any thicker than 1 inch cut slightly over size with a coping saw then holding on a scrap piece of wood pressing down hard with a thumb and taking great care pare with a sharp chisel there can be a tendency for it to flip that is why you dont want it too long as the longer it is the harder it is to hold safely.I suppose it would be possible to turn short lengths on a lathe but being across the grain there would be a tendency to break a turner could answer that,but as plug cutters are cheap to buy that is the best way.


Dennis


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