# Shaker Style Cabinet Side with flat inner face



## drummerian (31 Oct 2018)

Hi all,

Disclaimer!:
I am new to woodworking (at least in a furniture sense, plenty of DIY experience) but keen to learn, a shoe rack design has caught my eye and I've decided to have a go. 

I can't post links to the youtube tutorial on my account but the end product should end up looking something a little like the attached image.






I have a problem with the design that I am hoping to get some help with. I love the shaker look and this fits the style of house that this project is going in to. I will be going for '90 degree' shaker without the moulding as used in the example above. The main issue I have with the materials available to me is achieving a 'flat backed' inner face (this will aid with shelf cutting and mounting) while not having too deep of a shaker recess on the outer face. 

Because this was a little more difficult to explain I have thrown together a quick diagram (attached, any thoughts on what would be best/other options! I am using 2x2 for the stiles (which measures 44mm) and probably the rails also (wood sizing doesn't seem to work out quite as well as in the example video), then plan to use an 18mm plywood panel (should I be considering MDF for this?):





The design above uses pocket hole joinery, I am aware this is not often a favoured technique (perhaps I watch too much Matthias Wandel) but I would like to give it a go and it feels like a nice intro to my first proper furniture project. Another query I have is that will I get away with using pocket holes to attach the ply panel to the timber framework, I worry about differing wood movement (cracking paint etc). 

Thanks in advance!
Ian


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## SteveF (31 Oct 2018)

do you have a router?
much easier option than pocket hole
can you get 2 x1 instead of 2 x2?
2x1 would give you option of planting 12mm mdf \ ply on the back (inside) and not look too clunky
or if you can get 36mm timbers you could rebate 18mm inside and use 18mm ply \ mdf
the face frame would then sit flush

Steve


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## MikeG. (31 Oct 2018)

I suspect you are using 2x2 because you like the look of the corner posts and feet in the above photo. Well, you can make that very simple out of 2x1s and 1x1s, doing precisely as Steve has just described.


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## drummerian (31 Oct 2018)

thanks for the input!

I do have a router, and yes I do like the 'chunky' look of the 2x2 corner posts.

The original video/tutorial uses 1x2's for the rails, the ply then sits behind this, somehow ending up flush to the back (inside face). He mentions spacing the play back a tiny bit, the original build can probably get away with this as the gap that then opens between ply and 1x2 is filled over by the moudling.

I haven't seen 36mm timbers, this would also lose some of the look I think.

Not sure I understand the 1x2 + 1x1 solution, can you explain further?


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## drummerian (1 Nov 2018)

Nudge, any other ideas all


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## MikeG. (1 Nov 2018)

Sorry, didn't see your response. Here's what I mean. This is a section through the front corners:


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## drummerian (1 Nov 2018)

Thanks Mike, I think I see what you mean now. 

Should I be worried about an obvious line showing from the front where the 2 pieces meet? Will this generally be covered by paint OK? 

I expect in the design you show here the shelf can then be the full width then the shelf ?nose? timber to hide the ply edge can be cut short to take in to account the 1x1?


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## MikeG. (1 Nov 2018)

You wouldn't even worry about it if it wasn't painted. This is a basic fundamental of woodwork: grain matching and board preparation, edge jointing, and cleaning up afterwards. Basically you glue 2 flat faces together, then plane off the visible faces until the two pieces now laminated together are completely flat with each other.


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## drummerian (2 Nov 2018)

Thanks Mike, are you suggesting 12mm ply/mdf in that diagram? Glue joint or other?


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## MikeG. (2 Nov 2018)

Yeah, that's drawn as 12.5mm ply glued into a rebate in 45x20 PAR.


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## drummerian (2 Nov 2018)

Nice one, I think I can imagine how that would work.


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## drummerian (2 Nov 2018)

Although not sure if the small amount of exposed leg at the bottom would look a bit off...would you fill this in?


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## MikeG. (2 Nov 2018)

Yes, if it suited you, you can do that.

Let me just say that this isn't the approach I would be taking, but is my way of helping you to achieve the flat inner face you want. That wouldn't be an issue for me, as I would simply fit the shelves against the panel and around the corner posts, with the panel rebated into the posts in the usual way.


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## drummerian (2 Nov 2018)

Thanks again Mike,

Cutting the shelves to fit the rebate isn't a huge issue, I was just worried this may look odd and add complication. If you think this is achievable I may give this a go.


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## Benchwayze (6 Nov 2018)

Drummerian:

Hi there.

You may already know about this. Helped me no end when I made my first Shaker piece. 
Good reading. 
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Build-Shaker-F ... ure+making

HTH

John


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## drummerian (11 Nov 2018)

Thanks for the tips guys. I have got really in to the project now and am enjoying the process a lot, and learning along the way. I admit the joinery could be better in places but it's also got better as I've been going along and tuning in the tools and working out the best method.

Particular highlight was making a jig to allow the router to easily cut out the corners where the shelves needed to go around the corner posts, this worked great and i'm glad I went with this build method.

I am getting to the stage where I will need to be sanding and finishing the project. Which poses a couple of questions. I want to use my HVLP sprayer, is there any experience with particular paints that work well? (my current source of info on this is watching the fantastic videos put together by Peter Millard on youtube). I also need a top for this thing, I'd like to work with real wood for this for the experience and the look, ideally staining it reasonably dark as I like this contrasting look against the white base. Is anyone able to recommend a local supplier, and wood (beech/oak?) that I should be looking at for this.

Thanks again
Ian


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## drummerian (17 Apr 2019)

Hello again,

The project was put on hold for a while but I finally have some time to finish it off now. 

I'm really happy with the results so far thanks to a lot of the advice given on here, I also really enjoyed the process!

I still need to source a top for the unit and have been looking around on eBay at oak boards and I assume I need kiln dried so that it's less likely to warp? I am based in Leamington Spa and have read on the forum that I should also try 'Rowan Woodland Products'. 

Any advice on this final part would be very appreciated.
Thanks
Ian


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## Benchwayze (17 Apr 2019)

May I suggest George Sykes in Atherstone? It isn't very far from where you are. If you approach them in the right way they might find you an offcut which they will be only too pleased to be rid of. 

Regards 
John (hammer)


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## drummerian (17 Apr 2019)

Great tip but a little further away than i'd like to go if I can avoid it!

I'm also looking at a reclaimed scaffold board top, any thoughts? It might be a nice cheap option for now while I learn.


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## Benchwayze (17 Apr 2019)

10 ft scaffold boards brand new about 17 pounds at Wickes. Any good?

I've not seen any of them 
I just came across them when I was thinking of a garden seat and plant container combined. 

I don't see any reason why they wouldn't be suitable for you. I hope that helps. And I hope memory is good on the price!
Regards John (hammer)


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## drummerian (17 Apr 2019)

A good idea, one question I had was actually why people around me can justify £1 a foot for a reclaimed board but they are that cheap new!

I wonder if this is what people are willing to pay or are the older boards better quality/thickness?


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## thomashenry (17 Apr 2019)

Why the need for the flat inner face? I made something VERY similar to this about 18 months ago, also with pocket hole joinery. I didn't make the inner face of the sides flat. 

Actually, I used the offset between the frame and the panel to my advantage. The width of the shelf is the distance from floating panel to floating panel. I then cut out a squre from each of the 4 corners, and cut some stopped dadoes in the stiles of the side frames, and these acted as supports to hold the shelf. Everything slotted together very nicely.


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## drummerian (17 Apr 2019)

In the end that is the method I used, I made a jig for my router so I could repeatably cut the same corner shape out. I didn't get it perfect but I'm happy with it for a first piece.


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## Benchwayze (17 Apr 2019)

drummerian":10ubsb00 said:


> A good idea, one question I had was actually why people around me can justify £1 a foot for a reclaimed board but they are that cheap new!
> 
> I wonder if this is what people are willing to pay or are the older boards better quality/thickness?



It depends upon what species you're talking about. Old oak boards are not usually as expensive as new Oak. I have a centre board from an oak log in my shop. It's just over 1 1/2 cubic feet. It cost me £25 maybe twenty years ago. (I think I've finally found a project that will suit it!) The point is I doubt if it would cost me a mere £25 today. I wonder what a similar quantity of oak floorboards would cost me now? Probably a lot more than £25.

John (hammer)


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## custard (17 Apr 2019)

I'll make at least a couple of Shaker cabinets like this every year, Shaker furniture is a perennial best seller. Clients often ask for them built to specific sizes to fit in alcoves or in odd spaces within their homes, the relatively tall legs (giving a large amount of empty space underneath) fits well with today's fashion for wooden floors. If you can add a little taper to the inside of your legs it'll make your piece appear that touch lighter.











For your top I'd recommend American Cherry which is what I almost always use for Shaker style pieces (although I tend to push the boat out and source highly figured "Curly Cherry". Cherry was a very common Shaker timber where as Oak wasn't quite so common. You can buy kilned American Cherry in most timber yards at around £60 a cubic foot. It's relatively stable, takes glue and fastenings well, is kind on your tools, and patinates beautifully under a simple oil finish.


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## woodbloke66 (30 Apr 2019)

Benchwayze":1c7skbsr said:


> It cost me £25 maybe twenty years ago. (I think I've finally found a project that will suit it!) The point is I doubt if it would cost me a mere £25 today. I wonder what a similar quantity of oak floorboards would cost me now? Probably a lot more than £25.
> 
> John  (hammer)


Times and prices change John. When I was at uni a few moons ago now I bought a *whole* log of prime English Walnut for £70. All 50mm thick boards and all originally destined for Holland & Holland to be made into shotgun stocks - Rob


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## custard (30 Apr 2019)

woodbloke66":34wy8fbc said:


> I bought a *whole* log of prime English Walnut for £70. All 50mm thick boards and all originally destined for Holland & Holland to be made into shotgun stocks



Don't believe everything that timber yards tell you, they're worse than used car dealers!

Top end shotgun stocks are made from the below ground timber just above the roots of Walnut trees, which is where the best figure is to be found. The stump has to be dug out by hand and so has nothing to do with the regular log. I used to work around the corner from Holland & Holland's shop on Bruton Street, I popped in one day to talk about how they crafted their stocks and they were happy to make me a cup of coffee and chat for ages. I also seem to recall that their Walnut billets came from Turkey.


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## woodbloke66 (30 Apr 2019)

custard":dcd8cmkw said:


> woodbloke66":dcd8cmkw said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a *whole* log of prime English Walnut for £70. All 50mm thick boards and all originally destined for Holland & Holland to be made into shotgun stocks
> ...



This was was over forty years ago Custard and I might have been slightly 'green'. In the particular yard I visited there was a whole pile of walnut that seemed as big as a house and this one prime butt was stacked some way from it. When I enquired, the chaps said that it had been spoken for by H&H but not paid for so when I asked if I could have it, they buckled. I know that walnut stocks now come from Turkey but they may not have done in the late 70's - Rob


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