# Fixing butt hinges on MDF



## JFC (9 Mar 2006)

Ive got to make a wardrobe where the doors are in a frame and not lay on . Normally id make the styles and frame out of solid timber to get a good fixing on the hinge screws but to keep costs down the whole thing is going to be MDF . I just wondered how other forum members got around this problem ?


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## Woodmagnet (9 Mar 2006)

I have had this problem in the past,and i got round it by drilling into 
the side of the MDF and inserting dowel's, so when you screw into the
end of the MDF your screws will tighten into the dowel's.
hope this is of use to you.
kev.


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## Paul Chapman (9 Mar 2006)

Another option is to drill and glue in an old fashioned fibre Rawlplug (they are still available) where the screw is to go. You can get them in different lengths and diameters. They are also useful when you have to fix a door which has been removed several times over the years and the screw holes have become enlarged.

On a repair I had to do recently to a wardrobe, the fixed plate from a concealed-type hinge had been fitted very badly and the laminate covered chipboard was in a bit of a state where the screws had been fitted. I was able to drill out the damaged area and fit a piece of 10mm dowelling. When that was dry, I drilled into the centre of the dowelling and glued in a fibre Rawlplug.

I find them very versatile for problem materials like chipboard and MDF.

Hope this is of some help. 

Paul


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## jasonB (9 Mar 2006)

The other option is to use blums for inset doors also has the advantage of allowing a bit of adjustment on site.

For small (kitchen size) doors I use 40mm long 3.5mm screws and pilot all the way with a 2.5mm bit if they are being fixed with butt or flush hinges.

Jason


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## JFC (9 Mar 2006)

I would prefer to use the blum inset hinges but she wants to see the knuckles of the hinge :roll: and doesnt like kitchen hinges :roll: Doweling sounds a good option but to make it a bit quicker i may let a timber insert into the hinge area . Any down sides to this option anyone has experienced ?
Thanks for the replies so far .


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## matt (9 Mar 2006)

I've used butt hinges screwed straight in to MDF without a problem. The frame is Maple but the doors are MDF. I imainge some glue on the screw thread may help to reinforce the fixing but it's not something I deemed necessary.


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## Paul Chapman (9 Mar 2006)

JFC":1ygkrjx1 said:


> I would prefer to use the blum inset hinges but she wants to see the knuckles of the hinge :roll: .



I've seen some kitchens where they have used concealed hinges and then added a hinge knuckle, made for the purpose, for decorative effect. OK, I know it's cheating but it might make your life easier :wink: 

Paul


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## Colin C (9 Mar 2006)

There is one more option  
If you have a 6mm or 1/4 plug cutter ( hopefully the long type ), you can do what Paul Chapman said but use just the plug or bigger if you have it.
I have it all the time myself but for mdf make sure that you clamp some wood to to the sides before you drill as it can some times split it , if you clamp the wood for surport, you should have no problems.
Start with the 6 mm if you have any cutters for it


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## les chicken (9 Mar 2006)

Why not use cranked flush fitting hinges. If the back off the door needs rebating to bring the hinge flush a small price to pay. Using the cranked hinge means that you are not only screwing into the end grain of the MDF.

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=15648&ts=37226

Les


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## JFC (9 Mar 2006)

C'mon Les , im trying to do a quality job here :lol: :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (9 Mar 2006)

Another thought. I presume that as the whole thing is going to be MDF, you will be going for a painted finish. If so and the original issue was cost, could you lip the doors and frames with softwood, thereby giving you solid wood to screw into? This might put up the labour cost a little but might not add much to material costs.

Paul


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## les chicken (9 Mar 2006)

Had a similar problem a few weeks ago fitting some odd shaped raised panel doors under the stairs in a house. Did not use screwfix hinges ( just wanted to show a similar picture ) but similar ones from a local time forgot hardware store. Rebated the back of the door to take the crank and bent the tail to suit the frame.

A solid job and from the outside, you could not tell that they were not butt hinges. The customer was satisfied as she did not want kitchen hinges either, but also wanted the doors to open past 90 degrees. :roll: :roll: 

Les


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## JFC (9 Mar 2006)

I was messing Les :lol: A quality job in MDF :wink: 
Paul i thought about lipping the doors but the joint would crack over time i think . I have seen soft wood patches let into the back of the door leaving 3mm of MDF on the front so it doesn't show but again that would crack and show over time . As to the cost thats my fault for not allowing for solid timber to fix to so im being tight and trying to get round it :lol:


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## Scrit (9 Mar 2006)

I seem to recall that Hettich do a hinge range for office furniture which has a butt-hinge appearance - it's called the Selekta Pro. They are designed for lay-on doors Any use? Or do you really need the door in frame look? In which case why not have a wood face frame (such as poplar or hemlock) which is low-cost and has good screw-holding properties

Scrit


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## JFC (9 Mar 2006)

She wants butt hinges :roll: Interesting you said Hardwood then Hemlock , the start of a new thread i think :lol:
Are those timbers cheaper than stock whitewood ?


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## Paul Chapman (10 Mar 2006)

Would a piano hinge work? It would give your client plenty of knuckle and you plenty of screws :wink: 

Paul


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## Scrit (10 Mar 2006)

Actually I _meant_ to type "wood" (so I've corrected it  ). I thought of poplar first as a low-cost hardwood, then remembered that some of the better pine shops used to use hemlock, a spruce which happens to be one of the hardest of softwoods and is generally not that knotty (like vertical grade douglas fir, but easier to come by). In any case both should hold screws and paint well. I think you'll find hemlock is around £12 or so and poplar around £15 to £16 per cubic foot (+VAT), so a bit more expensive.

Scrit


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## JFC (10 Mar 2006)

:lol: I thought id caught you out then Scrit :lol:


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## AndyBoyd (10 Mar 2006)

JFC":2yt6ya87 said:


> I would prefer to use the blum inset hinges but she wants to see the knuckles of the hinge :roll: and doesnt like kitchen hinges :roll: Doweling sounds a good option but to make it a bit quicker i may let a timber insert into the hinge area . Any down sides to this option anyone has experienced ?
> Thanks for the replies so far .



You can buy these, you need to cut a rebate on the lip of the door to fit them but they look super. I bought a box of 40 years ago and now have 4 left which I'm saving for a future project. Mine are not branded but I got them from a Dutch DIY Chain but haven't seen them around for ages now (mind you I've not been looking)


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## matt (10 Mar 2006)

JFC":34lsd5mz said:


> C'mon Les , im trying to do a quality job here :lol: :lol:



Oh, you should have said. In that case, cut the heads of some hinge screws. Glue the hinges to the MDF using Gripfill and then glue the screw heads in to the hinge countersinks.


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## kevin m (10 Mar 2006)

Hi, I fit mdf doors with butt hinges into softwood frames all the time and sometimes mdf frames when I need a wide side panel. Like someone said use long 45mm-50mm thin screws and pilot them full depth with drill bit that just lets the thread cut into the mdf. Use butt hinges with staggered holes on the leaves of the hinges and when you pilot them angle the pilot holes so that you drill slightly accross the compressed layers of mdf. Also the hinges need to be sunk in and not surface mounted. If you use all these techniques then you will avoid splitting the mdf. If you hang wardrobe doors use three hinges per door. I have checked up on doors hung like this and there has been no problems. If you do not follow all these steps then they will split! The ideas of using dowels etc.. sound good.The main thing is to avoid the screws going in straight as any pressure splits the mdf.


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## DomValente (11 Mar 2006)

I may be mistaken but don't Blum now sell a hinge that shows some Knuckle?


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## Scrit (11 Mar 2006)

DomValente":br5f5qf9 said:


> I may be mistaken but don't Blum now sell a hinge that shows some Knuckle?


The hinge type you are referring to is an office furniture product and Blum don't really do office stuff. What you are probably thinking about is the Hettich Selekta Pro I mentioned in a previous post. Hafele do a similar hinge called the Regula

Scrit


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## AndyBoyd (12 Mar 2006)

Exactly Scrit, those are the ones I have. Regula.

Now if only someone would make these out of Brass :roll:


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## JFC (12 Mar 2006)

Dammit she wants Brass too :lol:


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