# Nice dovetail marker



## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

This is one of the nicest dovetail markers that I've seen.







http://shop.woodreview.com.au/details/163294.html


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## devonwoody (7 Dec 2005)

Yes it is attractive but has some drawbacks( :wink: ) because when you approach the side of a piece of timber there is not support for the tool. You almost need a set, one with a reversible setup.


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## CHJ (7 Dec 2005)

devonwoody":3podazg4 said:


> Yes it is attractive but has some drawbacks( :wink: ) because when you approach the side of a piece of timber there is not support for the tool. You almost need a set, one with a reversible setup.


*John*, do you not just mark from the other face of the stock? or am I missing something here.


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## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

Hmmm . . . 

I guess that's true. But as long as you clamp your board in the vise oriented in a way that's complementary to the guide's orientation it should be ok.


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## sxlalan (7 Dec 2005)

Just turn the board around?


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## bugbear (7 Dec 2005)

> John, do you not just mark from the other face of the stock? or am I missing something here.



Probably OK for DT's, but slightly fiddly to do.

It breaches the important rule of always using one datum face, since you can't guarentee perfectly parallel workpiece, which is not a rule I'd like to be in the habit of breaking.

I use one of these (apprentice made in my case)

http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/cat ... roupID=212

With the pivot moved to roughly the centre of the stock, it has the opposite (or is that complentary) angle present, you can always get a decent amount of stock onto the reference face.

BugBear


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## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

Bugbear, I like the idea of a small bevel gauge. Richard Kell makes a nice one in brass -- it's just a little too much $$$ for my taste.


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## Chris Knight (7 Dec 2005)

I like the Veritas bevel gauges with their style of clamping mechanism which never gets in the way of anything and can be operated in one hand.


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## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

waterhead37":jcuawu77 said:


> I like the Veritas bevel gauges with their style of clamping mechanism which never gets in the way of anything and can be operated in one hand.



Once again serious $$$, even the small version.  

I guess that anything worth having isn't cheap. :roll:


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## bugbear (7 Dec 2005)

Neither the Kell nor the Veritas serve the function I mention. The pivot point must be in the middle of the stock's length the get the DT angle, and it's supplement (*) which allows all marking to be done from one side.

BugBear

(*)
http://www.mathwords.com/s/supplement.htm


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## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

bugbear":era5bo4n said:


> Neither the Kell nor the Veritas serve the function I mention. The pivot point must be in the middle of the stock's length the get the DT angle, and it's supplement (*) which allows all marking to be done from one side.
> 
> BugBear
> 
> ...



Ahhhh . . . I see said the blind man! #-o


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## bugbear (7 Dec 2005)

> I guess that anything worth having isn't cheap.



To make a DT marker that is functionally equivalent to the universal bevel gauge illustrated, you simply need 2 (tiny) laths drilled and with a nut-bolt through the middles. A fixed one (e.g. 1:6 or 1:8) could be glued!

The sliding functionality of the universal bevel (in both arm and stock) makes it very versatile, but a dedicated DT gauge can function without.

BugBear (hmm. may head for workshop tonight)


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## ydb1md (7 Dec 2005)

bugbear":1wijv3aw said:


> > I guess that anything worth having isn't cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, I'm gonna start looking for a nice piece of exotic wood, maybe the size of a pen blank, and some stainless steel or brass that I can use for a blade. Take a brass knurled screw to clamp the blade . . . . 

This place is always good for inspiration 8)


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## CHJ (7 Dec 2005)

bugbear":h000sp76 said:


> > John, do you not just mark from the other face of the stock? or am I missing something here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I respect the working from one face rule, just expect new stock for dovetails to be even thickness.
The few I have done I have used this (with mitre blade centred) but it does need a two shot approach to mark angles and verticals in two ops' needing more care.


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## Alf (7 Dec 2005)

I would strongly argue that marking all from one side is going to make markedly (*mark*edly, gettit?) less difference to your DT cutting than being able to mark off the 90° line across the end grain with the same tool at the same time. So I "do a Cosman".

Cheers, Alf


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## bugbear (7 Dec 2005)

> mark off the 90° line across the end grain



Is it heresy to say that I don't bother? Most of my stock is so thin that the line so marked is too short for any alignment purpose anyway...

I just eyeball the saw against a square placed on the bench top.

I (and from memory Mr Cosman ditto) also don't mark the verticals for pin cutting.

BugBear (who is normally Mr. Precision ;-)


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## sxlalan (7 Dec 2005)

These almost worked for me. You could flip them over and get the complementary angle from the same side of the board which was nice. The only problem was (as Alf alludes to) the straight section generally wasn't long enough to mark the 90° line across the end of the board.


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## Scrit (7 Dec 2005)

I was taught to measure from the inside face of the joint _only_, so for that doesn't it work? I'm with bugbear about using a sliding bevel - it's easy to mark out 1:6, 1:8 or any other angle you want that way - so it's what I do despite having both a Collet dovetail jig and one of Richard Kell's whizzy little brass ones.

Scrit


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## Alf (7 Dec 2005)

bugbear":10tzos9k said:


> > mark off the 90° line across the end grain
> 
> 
> 
> Is it heresy to say that I don't bother?


'Scuse me while I just step to one side in case of any stray lightning bolts... :wink:

Is it heresy to mention that some persons regard dovetail markers in the same light as jointer fences, honing guides and training wheels on kiddies bicycles? Me, I need all the help I can get and I know it. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Scrit (7 Dec 2005)

Alf":2r6ml9qu said:


> Me, I need all the help I can get and I know it. :lol:


Psst.... So, d'you wanna buy my collection of DT marking gauges  

Scrit


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## Alf (7 Dec 2005)

Scrit":35vduncp said:


> Alf":35vduncp said:
> 
> 
> > Me, I need all the help I can get and I know it. :lol:
> ...


No, I'm not so daft as to _buy_ one - I made my own.  :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## devonwoody (8 Dec 2005)

sxlalan":y4t8qhyo said:


> These almost worked for me. You could flip them over and get the complementary angle from the same side of the board which was nice. The only problem was (as Alf alludes to) the straight section generally wasn't long enough to mark the 90° line across the end of the board.



This is the product I use BUT I wish Veritas had put a deeper 90 degree extrusion at the top and bottom (upto 3/4") it would then be perfect for me.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Dec 2005)

I've been using this little dovetail marker from Woodjoy (USA) for the past year. There was a very favourable review completed by Chris Schwartz in _Popular Woodworking_ about a month ago.

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=5025

Woodjoy: http://www.woodjoytools.com/gall-meas.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## devonwoody (8 Dec 2005)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> I've been using this little dovetail marker from Woodjoy (USA) for the past year. There was a very favourable review completed by Chris Schwartz in _Popular Woodworking_ about a month ago.
> 
> http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=5025
> 
> ...



Derek: I notice there is a double line on the r/h tail


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## ydb1md (8 Dec 2005)

Derek,

I like Woodjoy's tools. I have their cutting gauge and while it's not perfect, I like how unique it is and it performs well. 

I'll probably pick up one of their precision dovetail markers even if I make one of my own -- one can never have too many gadgets in the woodshop.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Dec 2005)

> Derek: I notice there is a double line on the r/h tail



Woody

Isn't that interesting... well, slightly embarrassing. Long story cut short: about 14 months ago, shortly after getting the Woodjoy dovetail marker, I used it to mark out the drawers for a pine and jarrah chest for my (then) 11 year old son. This was a project that was entirely build by hand, mind you, but my concentration definitely slipped along the way, and I mis-marked the dovetails. There were half blind dovetails on the drawer faces and through dovetails at the rear. I cut all the drawers together after building the carcass:







I only noticed the boo-boo at the end. Actually, it didn't look too bad, and it still produced a strong joint, so I just left them the way they were:






The finished chest looked quite good and all joints and fittings have remained true. Here is another picture of the drawers:






And here is a picture of the completed chest:






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## ydb1md (8 Dec 2005)

Very nice work Derek!

Was the string on the doorknob to help with loose teeth?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Dec 2005)

> Was the string on the doorknob to help with loose teeth?



Thanks Dave. The string!! That kid was into tying string onto everything - his "booby traps"! It broke my heart to see the jarrah doors covered in posters, but it was (is) his bedroom and so I just left it all in place. :roll: 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Wiley Horne (8 Dec 2005)

Greetings to all,
Derek, I have always liked the warmth exuded by that chest. Really very evocative of what it feels like to be a kid growing up. Not to mention it really holds a lot of stuff. Which is an idea that sometimes gets lost in modern art furniture.
On the original idea of the jig.....May I start with a question: Is there any consensus in the UK as to 'tails first' or 'pins first'? The original photo of the gauge illustrated a 'pins first' approach. Now, if the gauge had been shown marking the tails board, the 'running off the edge' issue probably would not have arisen, because the tails could be marked at either end with the gauge fully supported on the board.
Now I like to go tails first. And one of the advantages of going tails first is that you can gang the tails for sawing--for example, gang both drawer sides, or 4 drawer sides for that matter, if you have a pair of similar drawers. Is this a typical practice in the UK? I find it makes sawing more accurate, because of the longer reference lines across the end grain of the ganged boards. I'll try to post photos if there is interest.

Wiley


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## MikeW (8 Dec 2005)

Wiley Horne":3tv1bn4w said:


> ...May I start with a question: Is there any consensus in the UK as to 'tails first' or 'pins first'? Wiley


Any other board I would say this thread could require popcorn...

Ah heck, think I'll go pop some up.

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (8 Dec 2005)

Wiley Horne":3ve3fuy5 said:


> Is there any consensus in the UK as to 'tails first' or 'pins first'?


Of course; there's only one way to do it after all.

Cheers, Alf :-# :wink:


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## ydb1md (8 Dec 2005)

Alf":2z0lt68s said:


> Wiley Horne":2z0lt68s said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any consensus in the UK as to 'tails first' or 'pins first'?
> ...



Of course there's only one way to do it . . . the way that you're most comfortable with.


Mike, can you pass the popcorn? 

I'll go tap the keg . . .


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## AndyBoyd (8 Dec 2005)

I also use a woodjoy but a slightly different one.
http://www.woodjoytools.com/dvtlsq.html
It allows you to flip it so avoid the lack of support at the edge of the board.

I'm delighted with it, a prize addition to my tool cabinet


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (9 Dec 2005)

> ... one of the advantages of going tails first is that you can gang the tails for sawing--for example, gang both drawer sides, or 4 drawer sides for that matter, if you have a pair of similar drawers. Is this a typical practice in the UK? I find it makes sawing more accurate, because of the longer reference lines across the end grain of the ganged boards.



Hi Wiley

Thanks for the kind words - I think I have done those pics to death! (But finally I know where the "boo-boo" dovetails began! Nice pickup Woody.

To your question: In Oz this is not usual practice I suspect, simply because I posted this method on the local forum several months ago, and it appeared to confuse all. Obviously I agree with you since it is what I do (now, that is, not when the above pics were taken). 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## devonwoody (9 Dec 2005)

Derek:

Show those Americans your shoulder cutting jig. (As we are on dovetails)

I wouldn't be without mine. I even use it on tenons.


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## bugbear (9 Dec 2005)

MikeW":23yn0osq said:


> Wiley Horne":23yn0osq said:
> 
> 
> > ...May I start with a question: Is there any consensus in the UK as to 'tails first' or 'pins first'? Wiley
> ...



Do you read fark.com perchance, or is that reference more common that I thought?

BugBear


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