# Detached garage modernisation/conversion advice



## Persephone

Hello everyone,
We are in the process of buying our first house. It is a small semi built in 1939. The same family lived there for 60+ years so it needs updating - rewire, central heating, etc. but it's got lots of potential.
I currently do hobby woodworking in my living room as I live in a rented apartment so I want a workshop. The house has a detached garage (approximately 18' by 8') built from preformed concrete with a cement roof in the 1960s. It looks solid but has not been cared for and the owners seem to have grown bramble bushes on the roof. At some point electricity was added. This runs from the consumer unit through an isolation switch into trunking that runs along the outside wall of the house and then spans a gap of approximately six feet to the garage. The trunking is damaged at this span exposing the twin and earth cable. In the garage cables feed three lights and several double sockets. Bare cables are tacket to the walls. 
I have attached some photos but these are poor quality as I took them at the viewing. 

I would be grateful of members' advice on whether I can modernise this garage to convert it to a workshop. At the moment I have a couple of questions around the structure and electrics.
I am thinking of insulating the walls, floor and roof with PIR around 60mm thick. Do I first need to cover all the interior surfaces with some sort of plastic water barrier? There is evidence of moisture seeping in through the walls where the garage runs alongside a concrete path that rises towards the rear of the garden. Should I coat these surfaces in some sort of oil based water repellent before the insulation goes on? 
Do I need to leave a gap between the roof and the insulation? 
I will then put a vapour barrier on the inside of the insulation and attach 18mm MDF sheets to the walls and roof. I'm going with MDF as it's dense and apparently better at reducing noise than OSB. For the floor I'll put down a vapour barrier then 18mm plywood. 
I will also insulate the doors. 
Does all of this seem like the right thing to do to make the structure useable as a workshop that's so close to the house (and neighbours)?
At present I am not sure if the garage has a consumer unit. I would like to fit one and run a 32 amp ring for sockets, a separate 16 amp radial for a 16 amp socket (I've been watching Laura Kampf and would like to have a go at welding) and a 6 amp radial for the lights. I would also like to replace the cable from the house consumer unit with an AWS cable and catenary wire. 
I have purchased several LED lighting panels and dimmer switches from B&Q to replace the current strip lights. I will run the t&e for all wires on the surface using trunking. 
My question here is whether I am allowed to do this myself? I am not an electrician though I do have a science background. As the infrastructure is already in place and I am replacing it because it is damaged is this notifiable work? 

You might wonder why I am focusing on the garage rather than the house. Over the past few months I've acquired various pieces of workshop machinery (currently cluttering up my parents' house) and plan to use the workshop to do much of the house modernisation. The house will get a full rewire at some point but I want to get the workshop up and running straight away. 

Anyway, for people who got this far on my lengthy post I'd be very grateful of your advice. 

Thank you,
Steff


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## Jameshow

I would put 25mm pir in between the posts and 25mm over the top thus reducing the space it takes up! 

I'd put insulation under the floor too. 

I'd buy OSB / MDF or ply - whatever is cheapest. 

I'd batten the roof steels and put 2" pir fitted tightly between with 9mm OSB or ply over the top. 

Cheers James


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## robgul

You probably don't want to hear this . . . 

You are looking, from your description, at spending quite a bit on materials to patch up a concrete garage which - from the pictures - is already crumbling (the reinforcing steel rusts and pops the concrete). 

I would suggest that for not a lot more money - but yes probably more time - you would be better of building a new garage from scratch on the existing concrete base. Timber frame, cladding and insulation etc. My reasoning is really based on the longevity of the building even with the insulation/cladding etc that you describe.

Sorry!


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## Fitzroy

If you’re into the house for a decent run 5+ Yrs i’d knock it down and start over. If not I’d get a warm sweater and a fan heater and repair any leaks.


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## eribaMotters

I agree with above posts. The garage has reached a point where you are best to replace it. I noticed in first photo a patio across the bottom of the garden. Could you use the present garage for storage whilst building something new across the patio area. You'd have the added advantage of blocking out the view into/out of the windows on the housed behind you.

Colin


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## Sachakins

A fresh start will be cheaper in the long run. Trying to get what you want constrained by what's already there will be an expensive retro fit!

Sorry for the pessimism, but I would rip it down and build something to meet your needs, rather than try and salvage what's there as it looks beyond simple upgrade and to far gone already.


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## Bristol_Rob

Damaged garages are like damaged relationships - sometimes you just need to start over


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## Tanglefoot20

Hi rob.... all ok?..god I wish I had a garage that size....lol ... well at least empty..

Steve


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## Persephone

Jameshow said:


> I would put 25mm pir in between the posts and 25mm over the top thus reducing the space it takes up!
> 
> I'd put insulation under the floor too.
> 
> I'd buy OSB / MDF or ply - whatever is cheapest.
> 
> I'd batten the roof steels and put 2" pir fitted tightly between with 9mm OSB or ply over the top.
> 
> Cheers James


Thanks James. Good idea about the PIR between the posts. Hadn't thought about battens for the roof but it makes sense. Though having looked at the comments below I think the general consensus is to get the dynamite out!


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## Persephone

robgul said:


> You probably don't want to hear this . . .
> 
> You are looking, from your description, at spending quite a bit on materials to patch up a concrete garage which - from the pictures - is already crumbling (the reinforcing steel rusts and pops the concrete).
> 
> I would suggest that for not a lot more money - but yes probably more time - you would be better of building a new garage from scratch on the existing concrete base. Timber frame, cladding and insulation etc. My reasoning is really based on the longevity of the building even with the insulation/cladding etc that you describe.
> 
> Sorry!


Haha nothing to be sorry about. We tried to buy this house in February but couldn't reach an agreement on price given the work needed and back then my thought was to demolish it and build a new workshop from wood. Now two other attempted purchases later and the opportunity to buy this for less and I will probably do that. I'll use this garage in the meantime without improvement to fix up the house.


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## Persephone

Fitzroy said:


> If you’re into the house for a decent run 5+ Yrs i’d knock it down and start over. If not I’d get a warm sweater and a fan heater and repair any leaks.


Yes we plan to live there for many years so I'll probably take you advice and use a heater until I can build a new one.


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## Persephone

eribaMotters said:


> I agree with above posts. The garage has reached a point where you are best to replace it. I noticed in first photo a patio across the bottom of the garden. Could you use the present garage for storage whilst building something new across the patio area. You'd have the added advantage of blocking out the view into/out of the windows on the housed behind you.
> 
> Colin


Thanks Colin, I had considered using the back of the garden but it's a raised area and I'd have to carry everything up those steps. But I agree with most people and think the garage needs to be replaced. I'll use it for the renovation as it is.


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## Persephone

Sachakins said:


> A fresh start will be cheaper in the long run. Trying to get what you want constrained by what's already there will be an expensive retro fit!
> 
> Sorry for the pessimism, but I would rip it down and build something to meet your needs, rather than try and salvage what's there as it looks beyond simple upgrade and to far gone already.


I agree with you. I might be able to make use of the area behind it too if I start over.


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## Persephone

Bristol_Rob said:


> Damaged garages are like damaged relationships - sometimes you just need to start over


Ah yes, put like that it makes a lot of sense! This will be my first time with a garage but I guess it'll be a brief one!


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## Persephone

Tanglefoot20 said:


> Hi rob.... all ok?..god I wish I had a garage that size....lol ... well at least empty..
> 
> Steve


It's more space than I've ever had for hobbies though I don't think you'd fit many modern cars in there!


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## Jameshow

How about building a stud wall inside the garage complete with vapour barrier then when you have the time you can dynamite the garage leaving the stud walls ready to be clad on the concrete + brick base...


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## RichardG

Looking at the picture it appears that no guttering is used on either yours or the neighbouring garage so the gap between the two must get completely saturated when it rains, I'm not surprised there's water coming under the wall. If you use it in it's current state then I would try and at least address that otherwise it will always be damp. Trouble is it involves the neighbour which can extremely variable....


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## ekynoxe

OMG! @Persephone I've got the *exact* same garage which is in the same state, including the ivy crawling on top and lifting the roof! Striking similarity!!
The damp is so bad that it's growing fungus and a lot of my boards are rotting because of it!

I've sealed all the joints between the slabs with expanding foam as temporary measure against too much water coming for for now, and I've replaced the roof a couple of years ago. I also added gutters before last winter and it did help a little bit, but I know full well that the time has come to do something about the whole thing.
As others said: don't waste any time or money on it!!

Whilst it's empty, bite the bullet now and replace it. I wish I did that first thing when I moved in...

My next large project will be to demolish it entirely and start from scratch with a properly tanked slab and footings, make it longer and insulate it.


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## ekynoxe

Actually, you're luckier than I am. Mine doesn't even have a slab underneath. It's just some sort of screed that I can chip away at, and it's not levelled.
If the slab is in good condition, I'd waste no time in your case and flatten the area for a fresh rebuild.


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## Dynamite

robgul said:


> You probably don't want to hear this . . .
> 
> You are looking, from your description, at spending quite a bit on materials to patch up a concrete garage which - from the pictures - is already crumbling (the reinforcing steel rusts and pops the concrete).
> 
> I would suggest that for not a lot more money - but yes probably more time - you would be better of building a new garage from scratch on the existing concrete base. Timber frame, cladding and insulation etc. My reasoning is really based on the longevity of the building even with the insulation/cladding etc that you describe.
> 
> Sorry!


+1 for new, it will end up like triggers sweeping brush if it doesnt fall down first. It would be a nightmare to get it done up after all that hard work and still be in a position where its not stable.

Rob


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## Persephone

Jameshow said:


> How about building a stud wall inside the garage complete with vapour barrier then when you have the time you can dynamite the garage leaving the stud walls ready to be clad on the concrete + brick base...


It's not a bad idea to put me on for a short while to use it while we renovate the house.


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## Persephone

RichardG said:


> Looking at the picture it appears that no guttering is used on either yours or the neighbouring garage so the gap between the two must get completely saturated when it rains, I'm not surprised there's water coming under the wall. If you use it in it's current state then I would try and at least address that otherwise it will always be damp. Trouble is it involves the neighbour which can extremely variable....


I noticed the lack of gutters too and had planned to fit them. If I can I'll run one between the garages below both roof levels as a stop gap. We tried to buy the house next door before this but pulled out as it has subsidence so potentially the new owner will need to do a lot of ground work and might demolish their garage which would make it easier to build a new one if I demolish mine, which is where I am leaning!


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## Persephone

ekynoxe said:


> OMG! @Persephone I've got the *exact* same garage which is in the same state, including the ivy crawling on top and lifting the roof! Striking similarity!!
> The damp is so bad that it's growing fungus and a lot of my boards are rotting because of it!
> 
> I've sealed all the joints between the slabs with expanding foam as temporary measure against too much water coming for for now, and I've replaced the roof a couple of years ago. I also added gutters before last winter and it did help a little bit, but I know full well that the time has come to do something about the whole thing.
> As others said: don't waste any time or money on it!!
> 
> Whilst it's empty, bite the bullet now and replace it. I wish I did that first thing when I moved in...
> 
> My next large project will be to demolish it entirely and start from scratch with a properly tanked slab and footings, make it longer and insulate it.


Thanks for the advice. I don't think I'm going to waste any money on this garage. I will just fix the electrics to use it to renovate the house and then I'll probably build a new workshop from wood. 
I was appalled at the state of the garage but it's sort of reassuring to know I'm not the only one faced with this issue. It does seem a shame to demolish it but there's no point throwing money at it only to replace it in a couple of years. 
Regarding your message below it does seem to have a good concrete pad so I will just build on that.


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## Persephone

Dynamite said:


> +1 for new, it will end up like triggers sweeping brush if it doesnt fall down first. It would be a nightmare to get it done up after all that hard work and still be in a position where its not stable.
> 
> Rob


Thanks Rob, that was also a concern - I put a lot of effort and money into the interior only to discover the exterior structure is falling down on top of it.


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## Jameshow

Persephone said:


> It's not a bad idea to put me on for a short while to use it while we renovate the house.


Ok the stud wall would be lower than you might like but best practice is to put it on a row or two of engineering bricks.


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## Spectric

That is just something you don't want to throw any money at, it could easily become a money pit where you just have to keep throwing money at it to keep it usable. If you could build a new large shed elsewhere in the garden then this one could suffice as a temporary working area.


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## Richard_C

Father in law had a garage like that - they were built when cars were a lot narrower overall, he could just get a modest modern car in and open the door enough to get out as long as there was nothing else along the sides of the garage. 

It strikes me that you should knock it down and start again, and build either a functioning garage - a bit wider perhaps - which can be a workshop as well, or a purpose built workshop. One issue might be the roof - if its corrugated cement it might have asbestos in it which can push the disposal cost up. I suspect thats why so many people just leave fairly useless garages alone to rot in peace.

3 questions to think about:


will you ever want to use it as a garage ?
if you don't have a garage will it detract from the value/saleability - you will move out one day even if its years hence
are there any planning issues if you demolish the garage and build a workshop?
Many years ago a friend applied for PP to build a workshop in his large not-overlooked garden. It was refused. He then reapplied using exactly the same plans but replacing the word workshop with "hobby and storage area". Approved.

A neighbour has recently converted his garage by keeping the up and over door at the front and building a stud wall about 6ft back. That gives him room for bikes and bins through the front and a nice draft free workshop behind. Any future owner could take the stud wall out if they really wanted a garage. Struck me as a sensible solution.

New house, first house, very exciting times - enjoy. I moved from a flat to a 1910's 3 bed semi in 1976 - that's when the learning started.


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## stuart little

Unusual to see a garage with a thatched roof!  

In all seriousness, if the roof is original '60s would it not contain asbestos?


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## Persephone

Jameshow said:


> Ok the stud wall would be lower than you might like but best practice is to put it on a row or two of engineering bricks.


Good idea. It would protect it from moisture.


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## Persephone

Spectric said:


> That is just something you don't want to throw any money at, it could easily become a money pit where you just have to keep throwing money at it to keep it usable. If you could build a new large shed elsewhere in the garden then this one could suffice as a temporary working area.


There isn't another part of the garden I could use but I can use this while the house is being renovated - I just need to make the electrics safe. I will replace the garage as I agree with the general consensus that it's reached the end of its life.


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## Persephone

Richard_C said:


> Father in law had a garage like that - they were built when cars were a lot narrower overall, he could just get a modest modern car in and open the door enough to get out as long as there was nothing else along the sides of the garage.
> 
> It strikes me that you should knock it down and start again, and build either a functioning garage - a bit wider perhaps - which can be a workshop as well, or a purpose built workshop. One issue might be the roof - if its corrugated cement it might have asbestos in it which can push the disposal cost up. I suspect thats why so many people just leave fairly useless garages alone to rot in peace.
> 
> 3 questions to think about:
> 
> 
> will you ever want to use it as a garage ?
> if you don't have a garage will it detract from the value/saleability - you will move out one day even if its years hence
> are there any planning issues if you demolish the garage and build a workshop?
> Many years ago a friend applied for PP to build a workshop in his large not-overlooked garden. It was refused. He then reapplied using exactly the same plans but replacing the word workshop with "hobby and storage area". Approved.
> 
> A neighbour has recently converted his garage by keeping the up and over door at the front and building a stud wall about 6ft back. That gives him room for bikes and bins through the front and a nice draft free workshop behind. Any future owner could take the stud wall out if they really wanted a garage. Struck me as a sensible solution.
> 
> New house, first house, very exciting times - enjoy. I moved from a flat to a 1910's 3 bed semi in 1976 - that's when the learning started.


I have a Honda CRV and I think it's too big for the driveway (which is another story) so I don't think I'll be able to get it in this garage! I think the house was built with the Austin 7 in mind! 
I don't intend to use the garage for a car so would not build another. I don't think I'd need planning permission for a small workshop under permitted development but I will check at the time (it's going to be a while).
The roof might well have asbestos - I'll have to have it professionally removed. The seller says it's 1960s but it could be a later replacement. 
There's a wooden shed behind the garage which I'll use for bikes, etc. Without that I'd probably erect a small bike shed. 
Having rented a flat for 20 years (it was the only affordable way to live in the city centre) I can't wait to get a house that's mine. I'm done with city living!  I've watched lots of YouTube videos on house renovation. Skill builder has lots of information on replacing the bathroom suite and tiling. There is a man caller Peter Millard who makes cabinets so I intend to follow his instructions to build the kitchen units myself rather than buy generic cabinets from IKEA (the galley kitchen is quite small). And I recently watched a man in the North East renovate a similar house. He put PIR insulation under the floorboards so I'm going to do that too. I'm thinking that while everything is exposed I might as well lay one of those DIY wet underfloor heating kits so I can remove the radiators downstairs... Ah I have so many plans I can't wait for the purchase to complete!


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## Persephone

stuart little said:


> Unusual to see a garage with a thatched roof!
> 
> In all seriousness, if the roof is original '60s would it not contain asbestos?


Haha it's very odd isn't it? That said, my other half says he wants to use the garage roof to grow pumpkins!!! Apparently you trail the plants up the side. Hmmm. Over. My. Dead. Body. 
I wonder if it's later as it seems to be quite solid inside but you never know. Under the thatch could be all sorts of damage. It looks like it just unbolts but if it contains asbestos I'll get a professional in.


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## mikej460

I've got one just the same (except for the 'wig') and it's coming down soon as I'm building a new one. Up to now I've suffered badly from damp just like yours. It has ruined tools, cupboards and timber.

Assuming you've decided to put up with it until the house is renovated my advice for the short term is to spend a little money on keeping the damp out. Put an OB1 black sealant bead between the concrete slab and bottom of the garage sections, it can be applied over damp concrete; do this inside and outside. Also definitely fit guttering. Remove the wig if the roof underneath is still solid and undamaged; it is likely to be asbestos cement which is safe as long as it's undamaged but all that dead bramble will just be holding moss and debris which in turn is holding water.

If your budget can stretch to it fit some insulation foil to the inside of the roof to prevent condensation which will otherwise drip everywhere. You can do this using battens fastened to the inside of the metal trusses with tie wraps then staple the foil insulation to it. It doesn't have to be expensive foil, get the cheapest to prevent condensation. 

I hope this is useful


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## Gordon Tarling

A small word of advice from me, although it's already been mentioned - calling it a workshop is very likely to lead to all sorts of objections from anyone able to object, so call it a 'hobby room', 'craft room', 'garden room' or anything else you like, except 'workshop'.

G.


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## clogs

save up, knock it down, make it as big as poss and add under floor heating......
sooooooo much better....


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## Nightwood

Hi Steff
If you do decide to go with it for now I would stay away from using MDF or OSB both are a nightmare if they get wet MDF especially it just blows out, plywood even tho quite dear now is pretty resilient to a lot of grief and will last you a lot longer on the electrics I did all mine myself then got a proper electrician in at the end to test it and certificate for me a lot cheaper good luck to you whatever you decide 
Rodney


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## Richard_C

Persephone said:


> so I intend to follow his instructions to build the kitchen units myself rather than buy generic cabinets from IKEA (the galley kitchen is quite small)



Drifting off topic I know:

That seems sensible, but its worth looking at Ikea designs in one of their showrooms just for ideas. Their cupboards/cabinets go almost to the wall rather than having the usual 2 inch or so gap behind the back panel. That brings some potential difficulties - you can't run pipework or cables behind - I ran the pipes down in one corner and along at plinth level and channelled in a short lenght of 30a cable to the hob. The drawer runners are slim and sit below the drawer sides - a lot of other types run in channels at the side. So for a given cabinet size you can get quite a lot more internal room than some older mass market ones. I installed one 12 years ago, still going strong.

If I were doing it now, being retired rather than trying to fit it at weekends/evenings I probably would make my own, but I would still steal some ideas from Ikea and wherever else I could. The price of timber and board might make me change my mind when I got to the cost calculation.

Back to garages. A new estate near us in Cambridge got in the news a few years back, with pictures of (un) happy new house owners getting their Ford Fiesta in the garage but being unable to open a car door to get out. "We complied with Government guidelines" said the builder.


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## Allen Quay

If you’re planning to remove the thatch from that roof you’ll need to be careful. It’s possible that the plants will have air roots which have grown out of the stems and bedded themselves into the roof material (which could be asbestos, as others have already said). If you pull the thatch off the roof the air roots could bring some of the roof material with it, causing the surface to crumble and create dust, which is potentially asbestos dust.
It’s an exciting time for you though, enjoy!


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## Lons

I'm a retired builder and agree that you need to start again as soon as it's possible to do so, your tools and machinery will rust badly if you stick them in there. 

Go with temporary roof insulation and ideally a membrane to combat roof condensation which will increase as soon as you seal any drafts and air flow in the building and you would urgently need to sort the water ingress at floor level, looking at the pics that's being caused by the concrete path at the side and probably whatever is at the back of the garage as the path is higher than floor level, at very least you should clear any existing channel between path and building or cut a new one and direct water away from the building as much as possible, it might help if you can tank the lower part of the panel with bitumen or even a plastic sheet or DPM for a temporary measure, there are several methods that will help. Gutters will definitely be an improvement also as mentioned.
That also applies when you eventually construct a new building. as the path will be just as much an issue.


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## eribaMotters

We bought a bungalow to do up end of 2017. There was a small single brick garage attached, which although in OK condition was to small. We decided to wrap a larger building around it and applied for planning permission for a garage hobby room that would come 3m forward of the existing structure and 5m forward of the building line and got it passed without any issues. If you word things correctly it is surprising what is acceptable.

Colin


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## WoodchipWilbur

RichardG said:


> Looking at the picture it appears that no guttering is used on either yours or the neighbouring garage so the gap between the two must get completely saturated when it rains, I'm not surprised there's water coming under the wall. If you use it in it's current state then I would try and at least address that otherwise it will always be damp. Trouble is it involves the neighbour which can extremely variable....


+1 for that. If it were mine: I would rebuild a tad wider - take in as much of the path as you can get away with - the building is quite long and thin. If the "party wall" is replaced where it is, you could add your own guttering to catch the neighbour's drips if that made it easier - but, with the walls where they are, remember that access for maintenance is probably more important. I suggest that, if you are building a wooden hobby room (good word!) that access for maintenance is essential.


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## Richard_C

Could you build it with a sloping roof (towards your side) rather than a pointy one, then the gutter is yours alone. You still have potential splash from unguttered neighbour but all of your run off is controlled.


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## Persephone

mikej460 said:


> I've got one just the same (except for the 'wig') and it's coming down soon as I'm building a new one. Up to now I've suffered badly from damp just like yours. It has ruined tools, cupboards and timber.
> 
> Assuming you've decided to put up with it until the house is renovated my advice for the short term is to spend a little money on keeping the damp out. Put an OB1 black sealant bead between the concrete slab and bottom of the garage sections, it can be applied over damp concrete; do this inside and outside. Also definitely fit guttering. Remove the wig if the roof underneath is still solid and undamaged; it is likely to be asbestos cement which is safe as long as it's undamaged but all that dead bramble will just be holding moss and debris which in turn is holding water.
> 
> If your budget can stretch to it fit some insulation foil to the inside of the roof to prevent condensation which will otherwise drip everywhere. You can do this using battens fastened to the inside of the metal trusses with tie wraps then staple the foil insulation to it. It doesn't have to be expensive foil, get the cheapest to prevent condensation.
> 
> I hope this is useful


Thanks Mike. I will have to put up with this garage for a while so will take your advice and try to seal it from the elements. I won't be able to get the sealant between the garages but hopefully if I put some guttering between both roof lines it'll stop the worst of the water ingress. 
Good luck with your project. You'll have to post a build series.


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## Persephone

Gordon Tarling said:


> A small word of advice from me, although it's already been mentioned - calling it a workshop is very likely to lead to all sorts of objections from anyone able to object, so call it a 'hobby room', 'craft room', 'garden room' or anything else you like, except 'workshop'.
> 
> G.


Thanks Gordon. Yes, I guess most people's idea of a workshop is something industrial so wise words indeed.


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## mikej460

Persephone said:


> Thanks Mike. I will have to put up with this garage for a while so will take your advice and try to seal it from the elements. I won't be able to get the sealant between the garages but hopefully if I put some guttering between both roof lines it'll stop the worst of the water ingress.
> Good luck with your project. You'll have to post a build series.


If you also seal the inside this should stop it on the side you can't access. Yes I intend the start a thread on my build. Good luck with the garage and house renovation


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## Persephone

clogs said:


> save up, knock it down, make it as big as poss and add under floor heating......
> sooooooo much better....


You know I did wonder if underfloor heating was something to add as I plan to fit a kit to the house and could do an extension to the garage.


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## Persephone

Nightwood said:


> Hi Steff
> If you do decide to go with it for now I would stay away from using MDF or OSB both are a nightmare if they get wet MDF especially it just blows out, plywood even tho quite dear now is pretty resilient to a lot of grief and will last you a lot longer on the electrics I did all mine myself then got a proper electrician in at the end to test it and certificate for me a lot cheaper good luck to you whatever you decide
> Rodney


Hi Rodney, Good point. I was planning to use MDF for its sound insulation properties but as you say, if it gets wet it disintegrates. I would hope that any structure I build to replace this would be waterproof but I'll bear in mind what would happen if water does get through. 
I can't find the post now but I read somewhere that PIR insulation acts as a noise amplifier and Rockwool dampens sound. As the garage is close to the house and neighbours house I need to be mindful of the sound of machinery. 
I would consider myself fairly competent regarding electrics (my background involved some overlap) but I'm not qualified as an electrician. I will read the latest regulations when I get round to fixing the electrics and pay the electrician who does the house rewire to check it over.


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## Persephone

Richard_C said:


> Drifting off topic I know:
> 
> That seems sensible, but its worth looking at Ikea designs in one of their showrooms just for ideas. Their cupboards/cabinets go almost to the wall rather than having the usual 2 inch or so gap behind the back panel. That brings some potential difficulties - you can't run pipework or cables behind - I ran the pipes down in one corner and along at plinth level and channelled in a short lenght of 30a cable to the hob. The drawer runners are slim and sit below the drawer sides - a lot of other types run in channels at the side. So for a given cabinet size you can get quite a lot more internal room than some older mass market ones. I installed one 12 years ago, still going strong.
> 
> If I were doing it now, being retired rather than trying to fit it at weekends/evenings I probably would make my own, but I would still steal some ideas from Ikea and wherever else I could. The price of timber and board might make me change my mind when I got to the cost calculation.
> 
> Back to garages. A new estate near us in Cambridge got in the news a few years back, with pictures of (un) happy new house owners getting their Ford Fiesta in the garage but being unable to open a car door to get out. "We complied with Government guidelines" said the builder.


Hi Richard, Good point about the Ikea cupboard backs. I remember assisting my parents to assemble an Ikea kitchen about 20 years ago (it's still going strong) and thinking how useful it was to have that extra storage space. However, as you say, pipes can be a challenge. I think if you're building the cabinets yourself you can design pipe conduits into the build. 
I discovered that Ikea euro hinges are actually Blum so I popped to the Warrington store last week and bought 20 pairs as they were on sale for £3 a pair! I marvel at the way IKEA kitchens make use of space and I'll definitely look at them for inspiration. 
Hopefully wood prices will begin to fall now people have started spending money on holidays (at least the people I work with have) rather than ploughing it into renovating their homes - and given the number of people who seem to have destroyed the character of their 1930s English vernacular semi by covering it in spray-on concrete it hasn't come soon enough! And throw in the problems that Chinese construction company has they might also stop buying up the world's supply of wood! Fingers crossed well soon be able to pop to our local woodyard for a nice piece of cabinet grade ply for £50.
I've seen news items on similar garages. Some builders have no shame! I live in a converted warehouse in the city centre with two floors of car parking in the basement. I can only just get my CRV into the bay and when I first moved here 20+ years ago I destroyed the bumper of my car trying to reverse into a space. But then this was built in 1907 and car parking wasn't dreamed of. The basement probably had boys pushing barrows!


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## Persephone

Allen Quay said:


> If you’re planning to remove the thatch from that roof you’ll need to be careful. It’s possible that the plants will have air roots which have grown out of the stems and bedded themselves into the roof material (which could be asbestos, as others have already said). If you pull the thatch off the roof the air roots could bring some of the roof material with it, causing the surface to crumble and create dust, which is potentially asbestos dust.
> It’s an exciting time for you though, enjoy!


Hi Allen, thanks for pointing that out. It's really important and I hadn't considered it. I might spray the roof with water as I'm removing the bramble. And wear PPE! 
I really can't wait to complete the purchase (I've no idea what makes it take so long) and begin to set up the machinery I've bought over the last few months.


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## Persephone

Lons said:


> I'm a retired builder and agree that you need to start again as soon as it's possible to do so, your tools and machinery will rust badly if you stick them in there.
> 
> Go with temporary roof insulation and ideally a membrane to combat roof condensation which will increase as soon as you seal any drafts and air flow in the building and you would urgently need to sort the water ingress at floor level, looking at the pics that's being caused by the concrete path at the side and probably whatever is at the back of the garage as the path is higher than floor level, at very least you should clear any existing channel between path and building or cut a new one and direct water away from the building as much as possible, it might help if you can tank the lower part of the panel with bitumen or even a plastic sheet or DPM for a temporary measure, there are several methods that will help. Gutters will definitely be an improvement also as mentioned.
> That also applies when you eventually construct a new building. as the path will be just as much an issue.


Hi Lons, thank you for your professional assessment, I appreciate it. I did wonder if a channel needed to be created between the raised path and the garage sides. I had planned to keep the path but perhaps in the (probably distant) future I'll remove it and lay flags on the other side of the garden. I guess that when I remove the garage I could seal in the side of the path. I'm not sure what's at the back of the garage - I think the concrete extends up to the raised patio area. I'll have to get professional advice about how this will interact with the workshop I build to replace the garage. 
I like the idea of temporarily tanking the lower half of the garage to protect my tools and machinery. I've spent too much money on them to watch them rust! What would you advise to do this? I did see someone convert a similar garage and they painted the walls and floor with PVA but I'm not sure that would be enough in this case.


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## Persephone

eribaMotters said:


> We bought a bungalow to do up end of 2017. There was a small single brick garage attached, which although in OK condition was to small. We decided to wrap a larger building around it and applied for planning permission for a garage hobby room that would come 3m forward of the existing structure and 5m forward of the building line and got it passed without any issues. If you word things correctly it is surprising what is acceptable.
> 
> ColinView attachment 126160
> View attachment 126161


Hi Colin, Thanks for the information. Your garage extension looks impressive! I would love something that large but I don't have room for it because the driveway was built when cars were the size of modern pushchairs. But if I could build a dual skin structure like yours I wouldn't consider anything else. You'll have to post build photos on a separate thread to inspire people.


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## Persephone

WoodchipWilbur said:


> +1 for that. If it were mine: I would rebuild a tad wider - take in as much of the path as you can get away with - the building is quite long and thin. If the "party wall" is replaced where it is, you could add your own guttering to catch the neighbour's drips if that made it easier - but, with the walls where they are, remember that access for maintenance is probably more important. I suggest that, if you are building a wooden hobby room (good word!) that access for maintenance is essential.


Hi Wilbur, The documents from the solicitor state that each house is responsible for the party wall on the left. Therefore, I think the neighbour has used their garage as part of their responsibility for the party wall. (We seem to have drawn the short straw and have the responsibility to maintain an entire length of fence between our house and the attached semi!) 
When I build a new workshop (hobby room) I will likely build it from wood and as you say, this will need maintenance and I will need to access it. 
For now I'll try to secure this as best as I can and will seek people's advice when it comes to the new build.


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## Persephone

Richard_C said:


> Could you build it with a sloping roof (towards your side) rather than a pointy one, then the gutter is yours alone. You still have potential splash from unguttered neighbour but all of your run off is controlled.


Hi Richard, that's a good idea. It makes the new build much simpler too. I think the wall of the neighbour's garage is at the edge of the boundary and they used it as part of the boundary fence. So I guess I could attach guttering to their garage as technically it drops onto my garden.


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## Lons

Hi Steff
It's difficult to say what to use until you get at the cause but it's of little use painting the inside with PVA, you need to prevent water ingress at source from the outside so clear out or dig down a channel and for temporary solution at least I'd just run some damp proof membrane (DPM) vertically up the wall and make a fold at the bottom away from the wall ideally go deeper than the edge of the found or slab and even better if you can get at the wall and paint with bitumen before placing the DPM. Backfill on top of the DPM channel with pea gravel if you can and most of the water will be directed away past the garage. DPM degrades in UV but the pea gravel will prevent that and it will last a long time.
Remember however it has to go somewhere so you likely need to direct it away from the drive and house or it will pool and maybe cause other issues depending on how much there is of course.


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## Persephone

Lons said:


> Hi Steff
> It's difficult to say what to use until you get at the cause but it's of little use painting the inside with PVA, you need to prevent water ingress at source from the outside so clear out or dig down a channel and for temporary solution at least I'd just run some damp proof membrane (DPM) vertically up the wall and make a fold at the bottom away from the wall ideally go deeper than the edge of the found or slab and even better if you can get at the wall and paint with bitumen before placing the DPM. Backfill on top of the DPM channel with pea gravel if you can and most of the water will be directed away past the garage. DPM degrades in UV but the pea gravel will prevent that and it will last a long time.
> Remember however it has to go somewhere so you likely need to direct it away from the drive and house or it will pool and maybe cause other issues depending on how much there is of course.


Hi Lons, Thank you for replying. I apologise for the delay in responding - I contacted Covid and became quite unwell (thanks Mum!). I really appreciate your response. I have an angle grinder so I will cut away some of the concrete path that runs alongside the garage and place some DPM along the side of the garage. I will try to direct run off to the main drain. 
When we pull up the floorboards to add insulation we will be able to see if the sloping garden has led to any erosion of the soil under the house. 
I also thought about painting the inside with some bitumen waterproofing before boarding it out. 
Thanks again, 
Steff


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## Lons

Sorry to hear about the Covid, we've managed to avoid it though my brother was infected 3 days before Christmas and it knocked him for 6. He had all 3 jabs so probably would have been much worse if not vaccinated.

If you can get hold of a length of field drainage pipe to lay at the botton of the trench you cut it will be more efficient than just pea gravel though still needed on top and even better to put in a layer of permeable fabric on top, it's very cheap


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## Persephone

Lons said:


> Sorry to hear about the Covid, we've managed to avoid it though my brother was infected 3 days before Christmas and it knocked him for 6. He had all 3 jabs so probably would have been much worse if not vaccinated.
> 
> If you can get hold of a length of field drainage pipe to lay at the botton of the trench you cut it will be more efficient than just pea gravel though still needed on top and even better to put in a layer of permeable fabric on top, it's very cheap


I'm triple jabbed too but it knocked me for six. I dread to think how ill I would have been without the vaccine. 
Thanks for the advice. I will do as you suggest. Hopefully I'll get a couple of years out of the garage before I have to rebuild it.


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## Spectric

Rather than messing about with the old garage and trying to make it watertight just put a tarp over it and tie down, or slap a coat of this over the roof Flag Roofix 20/10 Roofing Repair | Instant Waterproofing

which will also help if that roof is asbestos by stopping it making dust on removal.


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## Persephone

Spectric said:


> Rather than messing about with the old garage and trying to make it watertight just put a tarp over it and tie down, or slap a coat of this over the roof Flag Roofix 20/10 Roofing Repair | Instant Waterproofing
> 
> which will also help if that roof is asbestos by stopping it making dust on removal.


Sorry, I don't know how I missed this. Thanks for the reply. If I keep the garage temporarily I will get some of this.


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## BenS

If you have the funds I would rebuild.
If not get new electrics and a raised floor


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## Persephone

BenS said:


> If you have the funds I would rebuild.
> If not get new electrics and a raised floor


Yeah I'm probably going to knock it down and build a new one. But for now I need to use it while the house is renovated. I'll sort the electrics out and put a new floor in. But before that I've got to get the flamethrower out and hunt down all the tarantulas living in the thatched roof!


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## Keith 66

It reminds me of ours before i did it up. Ours was vertical heavy panels so easy to extend rearwards. A fix for stopping water coming under the walls was wire brush the joint clean & blow out / vac up dirt. Dry out joint with hot air gun & apply polysuphide mastic sealant in a heavy bead along the inside. Thus far its kept the water out (ten years plus).
I agree with others that yours is probably too far gone to be worth keeping. Roof is probably going to be asbestos cement so will cost to get removed, Our double garage cost just under £500 for contractor to wrap & take away.
A new one you could make wider to give yourself room, budget for a insulated roof too.
Best thing i ever did was to insulate mine & re roof it, its now warm in winter & cool in summer.


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## Persephone

Keith 66 said:


> It reminds me of ours before i did it up. Ours was vertical heavy panels so easy to extend rearwards. A fix for stopping water coming under the walls was wire brush the joint clean & blow out / vac up dirt. Dry out joint with hot air gun & apply polysuphide mastic sealant in a heavy bead along the inside. Thus far its kept the water out (ten years plus).
> I agree with others that yours is probably too far gone to be worth keeping. Roof is probably going to be asbestos cement so will cost to get removed, Our double garage cost just under £500 for contractor to wrap & take away.
> A new one you could make wider to give yourself room, budget for a insulated roof too.
> Best thing i ever did was to insulate mine & re roof it, its now warm in winter & cool in summer.


So after discussions with 'im indoors the preferred option is to keep this for now and make it useable - insulation, etc. if possible and seal the roof. I guess if I do insulate and board out I can always re-use the material in a year or two on a new build and as you say I could extend it a little (over 'im indoors's dead body apparently! ). 
What was the mastic you used? 
And what did you re-roof with? 
Thanks.


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## cerro

I would build a new workshop useing concrete insulated blocks round the outside dig the foundations your self get a bricky in to put it up you build the wooden roof and clad it, then knock the old garage down inside you can have it pebble ashed on the out side when ever


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## Keith 66

Sealant i used was Arbokol 1000 Its a one part polysulphide, it cures slowly but sticks like the proverbial to a blanket.
The joint must be clean & dry at time of application, once its on it doesnt matter if it gets damp or wet.
Roof was replaced with insulated steel sheets, i got mine from Rollaclad in Swansea. Whole kit & its done a great job.


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## Skydivermel

That's an *asbestos* roof. Don't touch it. You'll need a licenced contractor to dismantle and take away/


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