# Better option for heat treating than a can of butane?



## sploo (7 May 2022)

I occasionally heat harden small bits of tool steel/silver steel/drill rod; usually nothing more than 1/2" diameter, but it still takes ages to get it to cherry red with one of those small cans of butane propane mix (the kind where you screw a torch head on the top).

I don't do it often enough (or have enough space) for a "proper" set up of a torch plus various bottles. Is there a middle ground, maybe something the size of a small fire extinguisher, but that'll put out a lot more heat?

Something like this maybe?
Profire Gas Torch + 1x MAPP 435g Bottle Disposable Cylinder plumbers jet burner : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


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## Inspector (7 May 2022)

Search for "one brick forge" and you will get lots on how to make one and the torch to use. One of our wood turning club members (he also makes knives) gave a talk about it and it easily gets the steel to forging temperature.

Pete


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## Lorenzl (7 May 2022)

Induction heaters are very quick and clean


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## Alpha-Dave (7 May 2022)

Lorenzl said:


> Induction heaters are very quick and clean


Any further insights please? I have looked at this recently, and the range from £30 caseless things on Amazon to £1,500 professional farrier things is bewildering.


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## TRITON (7 May 2022)

Coffee can forge ?.


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## Sideways (7 May 2022)

Two of those bernzomatic torches with MAPP gas cylinders - one from either side - and the workpiece sitting on soft firebricks to reflect the heat back at them. That setup very quickly got a four inch diameter cast iron gear up to temperature for silver soldering. That's nowhere near cherry red but a second torch and a change of gas isn't too expensive to try.
As Pete says above, with soft firebricks you can also make a coffee can forge like the above even easier. Just drill two side by side holes the length of the brick with a big wood auger bit, then turn them into an oval hole with a hacksaw blade or some such. Finally a third hole for the torch at right angles. No need for a can. The right type of firebricks are really soft. A single brick, single torch setup is enough to harden small knife blades.


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## Lorenzl (7 May 2022)

I would try one of the £38 ones and see how it goes. If you like it you could fix it into a plastic storage box so you don't accidentally electrocute yourself.


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## TFrench (7 May 2022)

If it's just for hardening small pieces like that a mapp torch should do you fine. I'd say it's worth investing in one of the rothenburger auto ignition torches - not only is it nice to not need a lighter or sparker but it seems to swirl the flame and get things very hot, very quickly. Handy if you ever do any restoration work as well for persuading stuck bolts to come loose.


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## Pedronicus (7 May 2022)

I would suggest Rothenburger as well with MAPP gas and a smaller than supplied as standard nozzle to concentrate the heat.


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## sploo (7 May 2022)

Thanks all - lots of useful suggestions.

Seems the one brick forge idea might be the cheapest way of concentrating the heat from a torch and would work for me. Though the auto ignition torches with a can of MAPP gas sounds like a next step up (possibly in conjunction with a one brick forge).

The induction heating idea is an interesting one; I've seen induction heaters but hadn't considered it for heat treatment.


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## carpenteire2009 (8 May 2022)

+1 on the Rothenberger Superfire torch, I used one last week in conjunction with some small fire bricks to get some 6" nails up to temperature for forging. I was only making some rivets but it was perfect for this type of small work.


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## John Hall (8 May 2022)

These are very good…gives off more heat than a standard torch..








Bullfinch 404 Autotorch Brazing Gas Blow Torch Kit


The Bullfinch 404 Autotorch brazing kit can give temperatures up to 950c under general conditions and up to 1200c in ideal conditions only. The burners can therefore bronze braze under most conditions as well as being able to make faster soft and silver soldered joints. This kit comes with...




www.gasproducts.co.uk


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## OldGreyDog (8 May 2022)

John Hall said:


> These are very good…gives off more heat than a standard torch..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have one of these and they are indeed very good.


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## carpenteire2009 (9 May 2022)

Another thumbs up for Bullfinch also, they make a great torch and you can buy additional torch burner heads that are interchangeable afterwards.


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## Fergie 307 (9 May 2022)

TFrench said:


> If it's just for hardening small pieces like that a mapp torch should do you fine. I'd say it's worth investing in one of the rothenburger auto ignition torches - not only is it nice to not need a lighter or sparker but it seems to swirl the flame and get things very hot, very quickly. Handy if you ever do any restoration work as well for persuading stuck bolts to come loose.


Upvote here for the Rothenberger, excellent bit of kit. Bit more expensive but you get what you pay for.


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## cerro (10 May 2022)

I used a garden plant pot about 12" high drilled a hole in the side inserted a pipe I had a spare set of Dinghy bellows so connected the foot bellows/Pump by hose pipe and some charcoal in and it gets white hot. Didnt cost me a penny will post a photo when I get up to the workshop.


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## cerro (10 May 2022)

Photo, I dont think it will last long so looking for a lorry brake hub.


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## sploo (11 May 2022)

I cheaped out and bought a different brand to the Rothenburger torch, but it seems decent (metal body). I went for a can of the Rothenburger MAPP because apparently some of the alternatives aren't as good.

I'll see how it performs next time I need to heat treat something, but I will also try to find a firebrick to make a one brick forge.


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## MorrisWoodman12 (11 May 2022)

@sploo So where did you cheap out?
Martin


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## sploo (11 May 2022)

It was this (SEAAN MAPP Propane Torch Multi Purpose Trigger Start Propane Torch with 3 Nozzles/Tips, Gas cylinders not Included : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools) torch for £36 rather than one of the more expensive Rothenberger torches.


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## Fergie 307 (12 May 2022)

For small parts I just use an ordinary house brick, the type with a frog. Ideal for small screws, pins and similar.


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## sploo (12 May 2022)

Yep - that's what I was doing here, but my little propane can struggled with 1/2" diameter silver steel. Got there in the end, but it took ages to get the tip hot enough.


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## Stevekane (12 May 2022)

cerro said:


> Photo, I dont think it will last long so looking for a lorry brake hub.


That looks to me to be the best idea and super cheap fuel too,,my problem is that I have quite a lot of soldered plumbing joints to do and my regular butane blowlamp torch is a bit of a pig in awkward situations, Ive been looking for a used Rothenburger superfire but never seem to see them, and have also thought about one of the cheaper copies like the one from Amazon on here,,I wonder how reliable they are? Im not a plumber so it will only get occasional use,,
Steve


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## Inspector (12 May 2022)

If you have a weed torch you could try it. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/garden/garden-care/weeders/68997-mini-weed-torch?item=PT610 

The bigger tiger torches/weed torches that you run off a refilable propane tank also throw a lot of heat. https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/garden/garden-care/weeders/47306-giant-weed-torch

The above are only linked as examples and I'm not suggesting you buy one if you don't already have one. Only pointing out options you might have in the garden shed.

Pete


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## sploo (13 May 2022)

I haven't (needed to) heat treat any silver steel since getting the MAPP torch, but I used it to heat some 7/16" (~11mm) mild steel rod for bending. I've done it before using the little propane torch and it took ages, never got to a "red" stage, and required a lot of force to bend. This MAPP torch had a section just starting to turn red in no time at all, and gave me a nice easy bend. Consider me impressed.


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## hawkeyefxr (14 May 2022)

sploo said:


> I cheaped out and bought a different brand to the Rothenburger torch, but it seems decent (metal body). I went for a can of the Rothenburger MAPP because apparently some of the alternatives aren't as good.
> 
> I'll see how it performs next time I need to heat treat something, but I will also try to find a firebrick to make a one brick forge.




Yep this is what i have, a Turbo Torch, i even used this when i worked installing AirCon. Easy use and way better than Butane.



sploo said:


> View attachment 135498


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