# Computer Crash



## OLD (6 Jul 2006)

A few minutes in from start up it will lock solid ,no particular application a hard reset fixes it for the day. i have used system restore and the above is the best at the moment .I have stopped any updating and no new software or hardware recently installed .
Is there a way to log when it crashes and is there anyone that can understand this log any help would be appreciated .


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## gidon (6 Jul 2006)

OLD - I've used Dr Watson before (integrated into the OS):
http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -US;308538
May just give you a clue as to what's causing your crash?
Have you tried booting with a selective startup (Start|Run|msconfig) and selecting a bare boot to see if that helps? If it does you could then slowly add stuff back in?
Cheers
Gidon


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## BrianD (6 Jul 2006)

What are we talking about here? You unfortunately have not stated what operating system you are referring to. Is it WinMe, Win98, Winnt, WinXP, Mac or Linux?

Then perhaps I can help you with a strategy of solving your problem.

Perhaps you can give info?


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## OLD (6 Jul 2006)

gidion i cannot get any info from dr. watson it asks for program to open file. I need more info to try selective start up (32 processes running). have taken side panel of computer to aid cooling.
Cpu 47c mb 33c hd 33c .


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## OLD (6 Jul 2006)

Brian d Its xp2 home 5.1.2600 with sp2.


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## ike (6 Jul 2006)

Is it an Athlon processor?


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## gidon (6 Jul 2006)

OLD - any text editor should open the files. Or you can view them in Dr, Watson IIRC. With the selective startup - I would just untick "load System services" and "load startup items". If you have no problems after doing this then at least you know it's a service or program causing the crash - it'll be a start ...
Cheers
Gidon


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## OLD (6 Jul 2006)

Ike its athlon xp 1673mhz 2000+ thoroughbred-a


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## ike (7 Jul 2006)

> Ike its athlon xp 1673mhz 2000+ thoroughbred-a



... IMO you can't rule out a motherboard fault. I had a similar problem when I upgraded from 98 to XP a few months back. Trawling the interweb geek forums dredged up several common threads, 

(i) Inadequate power supply for a Voyager USB modem - tried a powered hub - didn't work.

(ii) Faulty PSU - replaced with no difference.

(iii) Overheating CPU - checked fan/reinstalled heatsink with fresh paste - no difference.

(iv) incompatibility issue with Athlon processors (or perhaps the associated chipset). 

Either way after trying a lot of things including reinstalling OS, re-mounting CPU heatsink, checking memory sockets etc and replacing the PSU, I was very fortunate to find a replacement secondhand motherboard which cured the problem.

According to several forum threads I found, others have solved the problem by replacing the MB / switching to Intel.

cheers,

Ike


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## OLD (7 Jul 2006)

Its still locking . looked at system tools event viewer. system:-
error 9.33.09 dhcp (event 1002)
Also in application:-
error 9.33.25 truevector service (event 5007) this occured twice more at 9.33.27 & 9.33.28
these errors seem to occure on lock up
the computer is on home network if i click repair connection it cannot complete clearing dns cashe
Can any computer expert help please .


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## Sailor (7 Jul 2006)

Evening,

From the above message, 'TrueVector' is a component of Zone Alarm from what I recall. I'll try to find out more, but if you have Zone Alarm installed, it might be worthwhile trying it with Zone Alarm disabled and if necessary removed. (I seem to remember that even when disabled, Zone Alarm still launched the True Vector service.

Colin


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## Sailor (7 Jul 2006)

Me again,

Getting somewhere -

It seems your firewall is stopping your computer getting an IP address.

Event ID 1002 relates to:

The IP address lease <ip> for the Network Card with network address <MAC> has been denied by the DHCP server <server> (The DHCP Server sent a DHCPNACK message). 

Event ID 5007 relates to:

A file in the TrueVector Service is corrupt.

Now, True Vector also applies to CA EzFirewall, so it seems you have one or the other?

Back to un-installing whichever one it is. 
I know removing ZA is a hassle, the auto-removal doesn't always do it's job, but we'll cross that when we come to it.

Regards,

Colin


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## OLD (8 Jul 2006)

ZA removed ok enabled MS f/wall will monitor.


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## RogerS (8 Jul 2006)

You can easily re-install/repair ZA if it proves to be the culprit


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## BrianD (9 Jul 2006)

Hi there,

I think that you have a network problem - however - I suspect that this is disguising a video card / memory problem.

I say this because it locks up. if it was just the network you would have a network failure but the system wouldbe accessible and work; just that you cannot connect to the 'Net.

Whe you reboot, hard reset, it works. So the network actually works after all and for the whole day as you point out. 

Now the fact the truvector error should be sorted out and by uninstall first, reboot, then reinstall is the better routine.

The is a utility to test your memory, Works quite well and performs a stress test. If it fails then (do this test first thing in the morning) you know the memory is at fault. I will post the utility name (it is free).

If you have a "warmed up PC" the residual charge on the memory will not allow the detection to be reliable. I know it is quirky but it is best to cold start, login and test.

Will post ASAP

Cheers


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## BrianD (9 Jul 2006)

The utility is found at:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/rmm ... ral-3.html

The application is RightMark Memory Analyzer version 3.65

Use the stress test component and that should trigger of the problem. If so then you need to replace the memory.

Of course it is not outside the relms of possibilities that the applications on the PC have become corrupt. I would not worry in updating the PC in any event. Always start with the IE Windows update utility and finish with this as well.

Cheers.


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## OLD (9 Jul 2006)

Just had it fail so removed one stick of ram and it started so once again am monitoring .


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## OLD (10 Jul 2006)

Thats fixed it 512mhz of 'crucial' ram faulty .
Many thanks to all who helped me to get a result to a difficult intermittent problem i am well happy.


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## BrianD (10 Jul 2006)

Well done! Glad you are sorted out, except for the cost of replatment RAM. 

Using Crucial is gonna cost you hopefully not too much.

Cheers,

BrianD


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## RogerS (17 Jul 2006)

Brian

I ran 'alltests' on my laptop and Test 8 failed. Are these tests exhaustive (realistic, I guess)...or do some of the tests stretch things a bit? In other words, yes..'that test will fail always on that computer regardless of memory etc'.

Thanks. Reason for asking is that csrss.exe is consuming 100% CPU time and it's only a tiddly 6k program. The laptop has been exhaustively checked for viruses/trojans/rootkits etc and so I guess I may be answering my own question.

Roger


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## Sailor (17 Jul 2006)

Evening,

The csrss.exe could be a profile problem -
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=555021&sd=RMVP - this cause 100% CPU usage and could also explain other problems?


Regards,

Colin


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## RogerS (17 Jul 2006)

Hi Colin

I came across this possible cause and created a brand new user, logged into it and after a while csrss.exe back up to 100% which rules this out, I think??


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## BrianD (17 Jul 2006)

Depending on the config - someof the test will fail in any event.

It might be a tiddly program but it does alloc/dealloc memory in various "chunks" this will stress the box while running. I would not be overly worried about that - as long as this high loading is during the test of course and not outside of it!

Hopefully it has settle down now?

Cheers.


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## RogerS (18 Jul 2006)

Sadly after a while my laptop grinds to a halt (not when running the memory test) with CPU maxed out at 100% ...all consumed by csrss and I'm at a loss as to why. Virus/trojan/spyware/malware/rootkits all come up blank and the laptop gets a clean bill of health.

I am embarassed to admit that somehow I managed to load up cablehead blackbox (which just goes to show how even the most diligent of us can make a faux pas......as this program has to be manually installed so somewhere along the line I loaded it....I do seem to remember my gut feel saying...is this wise when downloading a program from some site or other...but can't for the life of me remember which site it was otherwise I'd be warning folks here about it). But that has all been cleaned out now.

I could re-install XP ...that just costs me time...but I am beginning to have a sneaky suspicion that it might be hardware heat related....and no...it didn't start this week with temperatures of 30+ :lol: . I may take it apart and blast some air over it as it has been in the flat with a load of dust in the air and that could have coated the insides with a nice thermal blanket. 

I could buy some more memory but if that doesn't fix it then I will be stuck with fairly old memory that won't be compatible with anything of current vintage. The laptop itself is a Compaq Presario 900. So if it is hardware related the question is 'do I cut and run' and bite the bullet.

And go and buy a Powerbook  

EDIT: Yup.....looks like it's heat related. CPU temp now up at 65 degrees which means the insides of the laptop are pretty warm and csrss back to its old tricks. It was fine first thing when I turnwed the laptop on.


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## BrianD (18 Jul 2006)

Hi there,


you say it is sitting at 65 degrees, (meaning celcius I take it - I work metric) then it is overheating for sure. Over 50deg you are cooking the chip.

I take it the fan is working - obvious I know but ...... might just need a clean or replacement. They are cheap in any event. Maplin or most PC stores can supply one.

Cheers.

PS: So it looks like you after a Powerbook actually - may be we need to assist in the justification? :lol: #-o :-$


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## RogerS (18 Jul 2006)

CPU 68 degrees

hard disk 40 degrees

We're cooking on gas!

The fan is working...blasting out really hot air ...I think I will have to wait until I get a torx screwdriver to open it up.

RAM stability test passed OK. Also CPU tests all OK using RightMark....so if it was heat, shouldn;t these tests throw up an error?

EDIT: This is doing my head in. Am now running in Safe mode with networking and csrss is as good as gold....OK the CPU temp is down at 57 and maybe that is cool enough (assuming it's CPU overtemp causing the problem) OR could be that when operating in Safe mode the OS is loaded in a 'better' less flakey piece of memory...am I clutching at straws here? 

Yup.....

EDIT TWO: Ran a stress test on memory and CPU...CPU temp ramped up to 72 degrees but infuruatingly csrss is still as good as gold. So I am scratching my head now.

Looks like a reinstall of XP and if that doesn't work then I will take a childish delight in throwing the laptop out of the flat on the fourth floor


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## BrianD (18 Jul 2006)

Your system is overheating for a laptop.

Just to ask a basic question. :idea: 

You have checked the power management - that it is on?

The are two areas for this -
1) some BIOS' allow you to adjust the ACPI to various settings - if all setting are to never the laptop never gets a rest

2) In Windows there is the Poer Management and check the setting there.

The "safe" mode only reduces the number of processess.

A loptop is NOT designed to run 24x7 flat out as the casing is not designed for this - the design assumption is that it will boost CPUI cycles when needed - I suspect you Win settings are wrong.

Overheating the CPU causes weird reactions

DO CHECK before reloading it could be as simple as that.

Cheers,


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## RogerS (19 Jul 2006)

Brian

The power management settings are all normal.

I ran a check with Everest and logged temperature vs CPU utilisation.

The temperature logged a consistent 44 degrees and all was well. It initially started at 45degrees and then dropped to 44.

Then as csrss kicked in to 100% utilisation, not unexpectedly the CPU temperature increased to 54 degrees. If it was temperature related then I would expect to see the temperature increase gradually and then see the utilisation jump to 100% at some critical temperature value. 

However, there is a significant jump almost instantaneously which coincides with the 100% utilisation demanded by csrss.

I think that this line of reasoning is valid?


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## BrianD (19 Jul 2006)

Hi there,

I'm not saying I am right but......do read this

http://www.auditmypc.com/process/csrss.asp

There is no reason as to why csrss "kicks in". It is inherent to the system.

Rt-click the csrss in task manager and kill process and it should refuse this as critical process, if not you have a ....

So perhaps .....you have a nasty :evil: 

Not sure but...


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## RogerS (19 Jul 2006)

Hi Brian

Thanks for your perseverance. I also came across the link as part of my travails. Also I had a whole host of other quite nifty utilities suggested to me on experts-exchange and I came through with a clean bill of health.

However, the good news is that it is now fixed    

One of the earlier suggested fixes was a corrupt user profile. I had already gone down this route and deleted the old user profile. But I did this from User Accounts control panel.

A second person highlighted that they had had exactly the same problem and again it was the user profile. So I went back to basics and looked up how Microsoft suggested going about killing the User Profile.

The other thing that I'd noticed but not picked up on (hindsight is wonderful) was that when I was running in Safe mode I had two possible accounts to log in with...Roger2 and Administrator. However, when running in normal mode, only one Roger2 was available. Adminstrator did not appear in User Accounts control panel either. But, I didn't put two and two together.

However, the Microsoft article says to look up User Profiles from within My Computer/Properties and lo...there was Administrator. So I killed it and csrss has been as good as gold.


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## BrianD (19 Jul 2006)

Well, I am glad you are sorted out.  

Saves you having to jockey a new installation!

Of course about the #-o Powerbook I don't know how you are going to convince the SWBO :-({|= 

Cheers


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## RogerS (19 Jul 2006)

I spoke too soon...     

Utterly fed up with the damn thing. csrss back to its' old tricks. 

I give up. I'm not even going to bother doing as reload as I've spent WAY too long on the wretched thing.

I've got a Sony Vaio and so will have to use that. 

Mind you, SWMBO is fabulously understanding and believes in replacement rather then messing about with stuff. Bless her. She also has a Mac! Trouble is I hanker after one of those really seriously smart Powerbooks


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## OLD (22 Jul 2006)

This is a update of my previous posts.
After establishing the ram was faulty and replacing a stick of 512mhz the bad startup still continued in a intermittent way up to present, some times i had to reseat the ram swop it around etc until i realised the common issue, i was always using position 1 of 3 on the mother board to fit memory.
So the original ram was not faulty its working in positions 2&3 with the new ram but position 1 is faulty. Always difficult intermittent faults


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