# Tall cabinet on legs



## seanybaby (4 Dec 2007)

I have recently started a new piece, which will be a tallish cabinet on four legs. There will be 2 fixed shelves inside with 2 small draws. The third, top shelf will be movable into 3 positions.

The main cabinet and legs are made from sapele, with maple for the shelves and rails on legs and the door panels will be some spalted maple, book matched. I will be putting a veneered ply/mdf back on, but as yet still not decided on the veneer. Having three timbers so far, not sure if i should choose another? I think it has to be a light coloured 
timber and was leaning towards birds-eye maple, thus having 3 different kinds of maple and sapele. Any thoughts?

Sorry but pics from mobile


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## woodbloke (4 Dec 2007)

Sean - cabinet looks good so far. IMO I wouldn't mix any more timbers together unless there is a very close match or the effect will look 'overfussy'. Two contrasting timbers is usually enough....the main one that the piece is made from and another for the details if need be, such as drawer pulls, shelf supports or maybe wedges in thru' mortice joints...would also try and ensure that timber thickness on this job can't be mistaken for armour plating :wink: - Rob


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## seanybaby (4 Dec 2007)

Cheers Rob 

This job is definitely going to be a tad lighter :lol: I went for 18mm thick sides with 45mm legs. Although i still think i have made it a little too thick. Cabinet is 800x550x270. Tomorrow i will have a play using some light and dark boards and try to decide what i should put on the back.


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## motownmartin (4 Dec 2007)

Interesting project Sean, should be another masterpiece when finished, keep it up.


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## woodbloke (4 Dec 2007)

seanybaby":ve1fsoc1 said:


> Cheers Rob
> 
> This job is definitely going to be a tad lighter :lol: I went for 18mm thick sides with 45mm legs. Although i still think i have made it a little too thick. Cabinet is 800x550x270. Tomorrow i will have a play using some light and dark boards and try to decide what i should put on the back.



Sean - I didn't want to raise the issue of material thickness but I'm glad that you have realised that the legs are maybe a little too thick. If the stand has *not* been glued yet there may well be an opportunity to skim the legs to a narrower size, would suggest 35mm max _or_ to do some shaping aka Krenovian style within the 45mm...maybe a bit of a flare or tapered? Whatever you do, I's strongly suggest that you do a full size drawing on some white painted hardboard to get the proportions right before doing any further work and then maybe do a scale model in some balsa to get an overall 3D view of what you're trying to do. I've just started the Elm Cabinet II and this is exactly what I've done...will be starting a thread shortly when I've got a bit further on it, just a pile of sticks and panels at the mo' - Rob


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## seanybaby (4 Dec 2007)

Thanks for the advice Rob 

Stand has not been glued yet and my original intention was to make the legs 5 sided and a little tapered.

I know what you are getting at saying, make a rod. My tutor has been trying to tell me to make one, but i have resisted so far because i have been using Sketchup, which gets a good view of what something could look like, however it isn't life size, and that's where computers programs fall down.

The design stage of my projects i always find so hard because of getting the right proportions. I always seem to make things too big :shock: :lol: I guess the more experience i gain, the better it will get with regards to proportioning and weight placement on something.


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## motownmartin (4 Dec 2007)

seanybaby":31v9h050 said:


> Thanks for the advice Rob
> 
> Stand has not been glued yet and my original intention was to make the legs 5 sided and a little tapered.
> 
> ...


You don't have to follow any rules Sean, you can have your own style that may prove to be very popular, you'll know when you get it right :wink:


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## woodbloke (4 Dec 2007)

seanybaby":m4c45o0y said:


> Thanks for the advice Rob
> 
> Stand has not been glued yet and my original intention was to make the legs 5 sided and a little tapered.
> 
> ...



Sean - yup, it's very difficult to get the proportions _just so_...a fraction here or there makes a *huge* difference to the final finished piece so I think it's far better to get it right at this stage rather than later when it's too late. The only thing you can do then to think "why didn't I.." or "what if...". Fwiw I've never used a 'puter programme to design something, for me pencil and a* lot *of paper always works. Then it's a full size drawing and detailed scale drawings on A2 paper.
As the stand hasn't been glued, you now have the time to do a bit of experimental work to refine the leg shaping - Rob


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## seanybaby (6 Dec 2007)

How dare you Rob! Why are you so right?

Here we go, tapered 2 sides of leg.











Mmmm, i think iv'e figured it out, age. Yes old age!? haha i just wish i had that wiseness :lol:


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## woodbloke (6 Dec 2007)

Sean - much, *much* better, comparing the first pics with the last set. I might be inclined also to take a smidgeon of the top of the legs as well, not much, maybe just 2 or 3mm. As a way to judge this, you could take a piece of paper and hold it against one of the legs at the top and move it in slightly so as to narrow the thickness profile of the leg. If you close one eye and squint at it (make sure there are no girlies around when you do this :lol it'll give you a good indication of what looks right, mark with a pencil when it looks OK...and I'll wager it's somewhere between 30 and 33mm . It's only a rough indication, but if you get one of your mates to have a go as well and get another opinion that will then confirm your first observations.....hopefully :wink: - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (7 Dec 2007)

Yes, definitely better.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## seanybaby (12 Dec 2007)

Made my 2 doors today, got to glue up tomorrow and try to get everything finished.


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## Paul Chapman (12 Dec 2007)

Those spalted panels look lovely  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Philly (12 Dec 2007)

Wow! Lovely timber :shock: 
Philly


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## seanybaby (12 Dec 2007)

Isn't it just 

Can't wait to get some oil on it :shock: 

Do many timber merchants stock spalted stuff? Iv'e not really seen any listed?


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## woodbloke (12 Dec 2007)

Fantastic panels...wow  - Rob


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## Chris Knight (12 Dec 2007)

Beautiful panels indeed - I look forward to seeing the finished job.


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## paulm (13 Dec 2007)

seanybaby":1njk0d94 said:


> Isn't it just
> 
> Can't wait to get some oil on it :shock:



What kind of oil are you thinking of Sean ?

Reason I ask is that I have used a lot of spalted beech and sycamore (guess yours is sycamore?), and whatever oil I have used, danish, finishing or whatever, can turn it rather yellow and make it considerably less attractive looking.

Might be better preserving the colour and contrast with blonde shellac or similar and some wax on top ?

Well worth testing some scraps before you commit if you can !

Cheers, Paul


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## seanybaby (13 Dec 2007)

Cheers for the advise Paul.

It is spalted maple btw. Can't really do any tests because i have none left. I was going to use danish oil and i know it can yellow a little.






I used dowels to locate the 2 pieces.


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## OPJ (18 Dec 2007)

I really like the look of the piece now you've tapered the legs - not that there was anything significantly wrong with it before, of course! :wink:  

Beautiful panels, too. And I thought the rosewood veneer I'm using on a small Jewewllry Box (WIP soon...) was nice! :roll: :wink: 

I also have trouble getting proportions right, even after drawing it out. It can pay to browse through several woodworking books (depending on what you have access to) and take ideas from other people's work.

As a general rule, I've learnt that if I'm not happy with or unsure about something I've designed, I need to change it - in the past, I've gone with certain ideas anyway and have been dissapointed with the end result.

Guess we'll have to wait 'til the New Year now to see it finished - should be well worth the wait!


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## Bean (19 Dec 2007)

Astounding panels, this cabinet is going to look really good


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## seanybaby (8 Jan 2008)

Well, got it finished just after xmas. Hope you like.







































Personally i'm pretty happy with the result. The designing was quite a learning curve and getting the design into Sketchup was even a steeper learning curve :lol: 

So my criticisms of my own piece are the (stand) legs are too fat (cheers woodbloke) and they are obviously too big and you highlighted that for me. Although i did not make them thin enough! I realise now that the stiles on my door should have been wider and the legs on my stand should have been thinner, enabling them both to line up together to create a continuous line, from the bottom to the top of piece. Also knobs on the door don't quite work i think.

Please give some constructive comments, thanks very much. 

PS. If you want to see the piece in the flesh, go to Mansfield museum from 11 Jan for the next month. There is this piece and another console table i made, along with many other young artists, painting, graphics, textiles, etc. Hope you like.


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## Philly (8 Jan 2008)

Wowsers, Sean! Wonderful - love the doors, fantastic figuring :shock: 
Nice one,
Philly


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## wizer (8 Jan 2008)

Erm Sean the legs don't look too thin to me. Infact I think that's the main thing that draws me to this piece. I have said before that I don't like these cabinets the teeter on thin spindly legs. But this one sways me. I like it a lot. Well done, the craftsmanship is outstanding. You have a fruitful career ahead of you.


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## Karl (8 Jan 2008)

Sean

Absolutely top drawer - real quality. Well done.

Cheers

Karl


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## Chris Knight (8 Jan 2008)

Sean,
That is a first class piece of work - well done indeed!


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## woodbloke (8 Jan 2008)

Sean - here's my assessment of this piece, which is meant to be positive view of what you've achieved, which is a great deal.
The overall finish applied (oil I think) has darkened the figure and spalting on the frame and particularly the panels...I feel that a simple shellac finish would have been better. The vertical stiles as you say are are too narrow and should run from the top to bottom, in other words the mortices should be in the stile and not the rail which would have given a more continuous 'flow' to the feel of the piece. The interior is great, very Krenovian and I like it a lot, handles are good but too large. The stand though is as I said a while back, is a little bit too chunky, particularly at the top of the legs and the cross rails ought I think to be in the same material as the rest of the frame, or at least the same colour. The top of the stand seems also to be too large in that there is an overly big overhang t'wixt the stand and cabinet proper which again spoils the line somewhat. What is good tho' about top of the stand is the grain figuration which may have been arrived at more by accident than design...the downward curve in that piece of timber is really good and is exactly the correct piece for that situation.
I've been very picky here in my critique of this piece. My feeling is that you're a bit like me in that you want to push boundaries and make the next piece better in all respects than the last one...hence the reason for this detailed critique. *Simple* and *subtle* is generally always better.
I hope you won't be offended by my thoughts but use what I've said here to make the next project even better - Rob


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## Rich (8 Jan 2008)

Sean, you are one man who will definitely make a living out of your trade, it's so pleasing to the eye, but more importantly, it's a ONE off, nobody else in the world has one like that, you must be, and SHOULD be very proud of yourself, take a bow that man!
Regards, Rich.


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## seanybaby (8 Jan 2008)

Philly":hyyo7d23 said:


> Wowsers, Sean! Wonderful - love the doors, fantastic figuring :shock:
> Nice one,
> Philly



Cheers mate  However give us a kick in the teeth please, give me your real thoughts like Rob :wink: I want to know what a world class plane maker and someone who has knowledge of making something of a Krenovian design thinks?? Cheers :wink: :lol:


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## OPJ (8 Jan 2008)

Absolutely beautiful, Sean. I agree with what's been said about the stiles and the width of the legs. I don't think they're too thick at all, but next time (and I'm sure there will be a next time! :wink: ) you should definitley look at trying to line them up with the stiles.

The door knobs don't stand out irregularly but I think, personally, you may have been better off turning some that weren't quite so long? The diameter is fine, I just think something more "traditional" (?) may've been better.

How did you get your work in to a museum then? Did they approach you through the college or did you use your own initiative to start making name for yourself? :wink: If only it were a bit closer to home, I'd love to come down and take a look for myself. Congratulations all the same!


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## seanybaby (8 Jan 2008)

WiZeR":1lti49b8 said:


> Erm Sean the legs don't look too thin to me. Infact I think that's the main thing that draws me to this piece. I have said before that I don't like these cabinets the teeter on thin spindly legs. But this one sways me. I like it a lot. Well done, the craftsmanship is outstanding. You have a fruitful career ahead of you.



Thanks for the kind comments Wizer. I think i have some 'energy' left from my 14stone coffee table, therefore my legs are biggish :lol:


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## Philly (8 Jan 2008)

Sean
Only thing I'd change is the rails on the stand - slightly darker maple to match the doors. Apart from that full marks - love the thru dovetails on the drawers. The Man himself would love it :wink: 
Cheers
Philly


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## Lord Nibbo (8 Jan 2008)

I agree with whats been said about the rails & stiles. But I don't agree about the legs being spindly, I think they might have looked better either thinner or even much longer. 

It's still a very nice piece though. =D>


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## tim (8 Jan 2008)

Great stuff - looks fantastic - those panels are stunning.

I would agree with Philly and say that the rails contrast too much. I personally would have made the legs lighter to match the rails so that there was a tone of the panels picked out in the rest of the piece. 

These are personal preferences and you should be very proud of a super looking cabinet.

Bravo! =D> =D> 

Cheers


Tim


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## seanybaby (8 Jan 2008)

woodbloke":1fyiv2vd said:


> I feel that a simple shellac finish would have been better.
> 
> in other words the mortices should be in the stile
> 
> .the downward curve in that piece of timber is really good Rob




Thanks Karl, Chris and Rich  Very much appreciated.

Who the hell does this Rob guy think he is? Does he think he can teach :lol: :lol: 

Rob, i thought shellac was like (is) a french polish? I would like to know more about this, as i have done a little test piece at college which we 'french polished'.

Mortices in stile? ok, but that would be less Krenovian? yes.mmm?

The grain direction, im always thinking about :wink: 

Many, many thanks for the input, Cheers.


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## Karl (8 Jan 2008)

Sean

Just some further comments in light of what has been posted above.

I think that the cross rails on the stand work great - particularly when the doors are opened - ties the piece together. And with the doors closed, they add a bit of intriguement to the piece, and also seem to work well with the door panels

I'm not sure if you've had some movement on the doors, but the gap doesn't appear even - may be the photo. 

Not much for the handles - something more delicate would be more suited.

And would agree with the comments about the door rails/stiles.

HTH

Cheers

Karl


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## seanybaby (8 Jan 2008)

OPJ":37irg4i2 said:


> The door knobs don't stand out irregularly but I think, personally, you may have been better off turning some that weren't quite so long?
> 
> How did you get your work in to a museum then? Did they approach you through the college or did you use your own initiative to start making name for yourself? :wink: If only it were a bit closer to home, I'd love to come down and take a look for myself. Congratulations all the same!



The handles 'knobs' had me thinking hard. I think they went wrong in the end to be honest. No one has commented on this yet, however my personal feelings is, no knobs! little, long thin handles, like Krenov would be better? ahhh :lol: 

Well, the museum, my mate is the curator, i finished a 'Visual Arts' Degree, and decided to go into woodwork! So here we are! :shock:


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## Paul Chapman (8 Jan 2008)

Overall a fabulous job, Sean =D> =D> 

My main criticism would be about the doors. The top and bottom rails tend to look very heavy and the upright stiles are too narrow. And I know that Krenov usually puts the mortices in the rails and the tenons in the stiles, but it always looks wrong to me.

But that's all nit picking. A great piece of work.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (9 Jan 2008)

seanbaby wrote :


> Does he think he can teach


Does 20 years teaching woodwork and then design and technology in the state system qualify?

Regarding French Polish, there are various grades of polish available, all of which will colour the timber to a different extent. I don't have a lot of expertise on the different sorts of polish though I understand button polish is very dark and white polish is well...quite pale - Rob


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