# New workshop design



## MikeG. (7 Jan 2010)

Well, we haven't even bought the house yet, but I have already had a first stab at the workshop! I have decided to try and squeeze in just under the size that Building Control become involved, because there are a couple of adjacent trees and clay soil, so I want to avoid a costly structural-engineered footing/ slab. 

I checked the rules carefully, and the size given is "under 30 sq.m floor area". Floor area is within the external wall, so, it is not slab size......and so the attached is a few square mm under 30 sq.m.

The other design criteria is that it must be in keeping with the historic buildings all around......it is within the curtilage of a listed building. This explains the "shed & extension" look, rather than just having one big roof on a rectangular building.

The sharp eyed amongst you might notice that I propose a new purchase.

Mike


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## DaveL (7 Jan 2010)

Mike,

I can saw a table saw in there, but where is the lathe?


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## MikeG. (7 Jan 2010)

Sorry, that drawing is a bit small. Try this.......






Mike


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## big soft moose (7 Jan 2010)

DaveL":31i33ul7 said:


> Mike,
> 
> I can saw a table saw in there, but where is the lathe?



hes left room for it - thats why he's got two benches :sign3:


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## MikeG. (7 Jan 2010)

Dave, Dave, Dave (&, edit, BSM).......

How many times have I told you?   

Yep, well spotted...there is room here to have a table saw, so it's on the agenda. No room for a lathe, I'm afraid.

Mike


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## jlawrence (7 Jan 2010)

You're missing one of the most important bits - kettle/coffee making area. Or is the hatch so swmbo can pass you coffee in


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## big soft moose (7 Jan 2010)

jlawrence":3vc0r3hs said:


> You're missing one of the most important bits - kettle/coffee making area. Or is the hatch so swmbo can pass you coffee in



nah think of all the water vapour out put into the 'shop - trips into the house for tea are good , it gives you a chance to unwind , warm up, and walk dust and shavings all over the carpet


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## OPJ (7 Jan 2010)

big soft moose":25axrgze said:


> DaveL":25axrgze said:
> 
> 
> > Mike,
> ...



No, you're both wrong - look at all that space in the... "_log store_"... I think Mike's planning to turn those logs in to bowls! 

Seriously, Mike, this looks very good - will it be a 'proper' table saw or the resurrection of your inverted skil saw of death??? :?

Finally, you can show everyone in the Projects forum how it _should_ be done!! :wink:

A few weeks ago in the General Chat forum, Alan Holtham was asking what we, as woodworkers, would like to see in future woodworking shows (we're assuming he has contacts)... This build would be a great one to follow - and would undoubtedly put Tommy Walsh's Ultimate Workshop to shame (that didn't go down to well with many people on here)! 8)


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## big soft moose (7 Jan 2010)

are you building it from scratch mike - or is it one of the off the peg border oak ones ?


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## rileytoolworks (7 Jan 2010)

Mike, are you buying a new rubbish bin?


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## Shultzy (7 Jan 2010)

Mike, great workshop design, just a couple of observations:-

The window over the bench seems small, I'd want to let in as much natural light as possible.

The position of the table saw and planer seems strange as passing any long length over these machine will encroach into the finishing area, not good for keeping the dust out.

Will you have the same issue with the pillar drill and the sheet material store?


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## poroshok (8 Jan 2010)

Well, we haven't even bought the house yet, but I have already had a first stab at the workshop! I have decided to try and squeeze in just under the size that Building Control become involved, because there are a couple of adjacent trees and clay soil, so I want to avoid a costly structural-engineered footing/ slab. 
nice!


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## OLD (8 Jan 2010)

If the proposed layout is up for comment then compressor to the log store and bench grinder out of the finishing area spring to mind any heating proposed? 
I find in my small shop i always need more space to put things to the side of what i am working on, so lots of bench/table space. Also a assembly table on castors or with lots of space around is very useful one of those things it takes no time to get use to.


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the comments, chaps.

The finishing area is only an area that I can clean up and curtain off occasionally...........how often does one actually do finishing? The whole point of that "extension" was really to make the building long enough to be able to use the planer and saw without opening doors or hatches. Thus the bench grinder living in there......although I'm not wedded to that, at all.

I take the point re. the pillar drill. I think that can be solved by turning it 45 degrees. The window over the bench......well, I like to have tools and jigs hanging on the wall in front of my bench, so any window is a bit of a nuisance. This is a compromise. 

BSM......no, not Border Oak.....I'll build it myself.

Mike


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

OPJ":1n1vvtql said:


> Seriously, Mike, this looks very good - will it be a 'proper' table saw or the resurrection of your inverted skil saw of death??? :?
> 
> Finally, you can show everyone in the Projects forum how it _should_ be done!! :wink:
> 
> A few weeks ago in the General Chat forum, Alan Holtham was asking what we, as woodworkers, would like to see in future woodworking shows (we're assuming he has contacts)... This build would be a great one to follow - and would undoubtedly put Tommy Walsh's Ultimate Workshop to shame (that didn't go down to well with many people on here)! 8)



Sorry Olly...somehow I missed this post.

I haven't started looking at table saws just yet, but I do tend to go for solid older bits of kit, so I envisage something spinning a 12" to 16" blade in a big cast-iron table. I'll build the workshop first before I start looking on dealers sites and on eBay.

I will certainly post WIP of the construction, and may even post some decent working drawings of it so that people can have the complete run-down of my approach to these buildings. Hopefully, it will reduce the number of times that I have to tell people where the vapour barrier goes!!!

I'm not sure what you are suggesting re Alan Holtham and woodworking shows......wasn't it Alan who was planning a tour of our workshops this year?

Since posting the original drawings I have now added some really trick roof storage options, and a couple of rooflights to the southern elevation. Oh, and another roof overhang/ log store area.........and no, neither of the logstores is for a lathe!!

Mike


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## big soft moose (8 Jan 2010)

The only layout thing i'm not convinced about is the fold up router table - I would have a router table on wheels stored in the bottom left corner when not in use.

I would also be tempted to put wheeled bases on some of the other heavy machinery so it can be moved arround rather than having a set location - and to facilitate that i'd have another floor four socket at the left hand end.

edit: and of course the lathe wont be in the log store...... it will clearly be bolted to the bench - which is why you have specified two benches QED


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

BSM,

I already have the fold-away router table........in everyday use in my current workshop. It works like a dream.

I have a real dislike of moving machinery around. I have held back from having a table saw until I have a workshop big enough to leave it in one place, and, from doing this drawing, I reckon that this new workshop is big enough for it to work well. I still have a couple of strategically placed hatches for the extra long stuff.

The second bench is not for a lathe........it is already in my current workshop, and is where I do glue-ups. There is no provision for a lathe in this workshop, nor anywhere in my brain!!  

Mike


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## big soft moose (8 Jan 2010)

Mike Garnham":2wes5m0g said:


> There is no provision for a lathe in this workshop...



Ahh I see so you'll be building an entirely seperate shop to house the turning equipment ... now it all makes sense 

talking of ommisions you also havent left space for a big fancy cabinet to house the plane collection - i trust you are going to rectify that oversight


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## johnf (8 Jan 2010)

A couple of velux roof lights would give you a good bit of natural light and where does the planer thicknesser go nice space though.


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

John,

funnily enough, I designed the roof today and added two rooflights. I am planning to have a vaulted section in the middle of the main body of the workshop, with two "ceilings" at either end. The area above to be storage, accessible from inside....thus the vaulted section. Having the vaulting enabled me to fit rooflights into the southfacing roof.

Literally on the back of an envelope.....






The PT is standing next to the table saw.

Mike


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## johnf (8 Jan 2010)

Mike Garnham":3693l23b said:


> John,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Mike
You should get a combi with a sliding table and a spindle for that space. 

Thats how I do it and it works well for me


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## OPJ (8 Jan 2010)

Sorry, Mike. You are right about Alan wanting to visit and photograph other workshops but, I was actually referring to this thread. With the way Alan has worded his initial post, it could be read that he has some contacts within the TV/Production world and may be able to pull some strings if there was demand and ideas for a new woodworking show...

What I was getting at was that, while a lot of the stuff you would expect to see in such a programme can be viewed for free on YouTube and many other sites and blogs. How often do you see a proper workshop build in video???

Documenting this build on the forum in its own right would be of great benefit to all users of this forum. No doubt, it would have to be made a 'Sticky'. But, if Alan and yourself were both interested and he was able to make things happen... I just thought it might have been worth a PM, that's all. 

...You've already got the "celebrity" status of being a former England cricketer... That would surely work in your favour! 

...Clearly, you didn't see Tommy's Ultimate Workshop in 2006, either!! :roll: :wink:

Back to the discussion...

I agree with other comments in that your table saw and planer look too close to the finishing area. It does come down to what you intend to work with mostly (length-wise) but, you do appear to have a generously large floor space between there and the log store.


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

OPJ":21lba4mu said:


> ...You've already got the "celebrity" status of being a former England cricketer... .



Well, England under 15 and under 19, and some others.......but not a proper England cricketer.

As for the workshop build, I can't see that it would make exciting TV or youTube fodder, but if anyone wanted to point a video camera at it I would happily make them the odd cup of tea!

Mike


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## MikeG. (8 Jan 2010)

Here is a stretched version of the above sketch, giving a better idea of the roof I have in mind.







Mike


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## OPJ (9 Jan 2010)

Ah, okay. Sorry, Mike. I've never been in to cricket so, I didn't realise.  Even though, I still recognised your name when I was first saw you posting at GWW.com... Technically, you have still represented your country though! :wink:

Walsh's Workshop proved to be quite popular, as far as one could tell from the discussions that occurred on this site, four-years ago now. It ended with a great feeling of anger and disappointment - not only did he kit out the downstairs with Axminster budget-range of machinery but, above that, he fitted a mezzanine floor with a huge plasma TV and stereo, etc.!! :x He suggested he would quite literally sit up their watching TV, with the sounds of someone banging nails and sawing wood blasting out the speakers in the background (to keep his wife quiet).

I be he hasn't used the space as a workshop since. :? At the end of the program, he revealed this Aston Martin he'd just bought - I bet it became nothing more than a luxury garage after all! :roll:

So, while there is interest, we clearly haven't seen it done _properly_. Actually, I think _The Wood Whisperer_ is going to document his build either this year or next [I personally don't see what's wrong with his current three-car garage... :roll:]. Then again, he is American and you know what that means with regards to 'unsafe working practices'... :twisted:


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## MikeG. (9 Jan 2010)

OPJ":3g3frvmx said:


> Ah, okay. Sorry, Mike. I've never been in to cricket so, I didn't realise.



It's not you who should apologise Olly, Its the bl**dy selectors!  OK, just kidding...there was always someone a bit better than me around through my career. Alan Knott, Bob Taylor, Jack Russell......ho hum.

If I had to adopt completely safe working practices to build this shed, Olly, then maybe I might not be the best candidate for a video    

Mike


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## big soft moose (9 Jan 2010)

Mike Garnham":10z9srwl said:


> As for the workshop build, I can't see that it would make exciting TV or youTube fodder, but if anyone wanted to point a video camera at it I would happily make them the odd cup of tea!
> 
> Mike



it could be like grand designs only smaller - "modest designs" maybe

(actually as an aside i quite like the modest designs concept as a tv series - self builds by people who didnt spend the national dept of a small latin american country)

perhaps more realistically you could do an article on the build for nick (gibbs) or may be a column if its going to be a drawn out process


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## MikeG. (9 Jan 2010)

big soft moose":3tgqkftb said:


> perhaps more realistically you could do an article on the build for nick (gibbs) or may be a column if its going to be a drawn out process



Now that is a thought......quite do-able.

Mike


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## OldSchoolTools (10 Jan 2010)

Hay to have a workshop this size would be a dream for most of us, wish it was mine, one thing I'M now looking ti install a little late I know is a wood burner, may be heating is something you will need to consider, wish I had and I will install something before next winter believe me.

Gary


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## MikeG. (10 Jan 2010)

Gary,

this will be pretty well insulated, so I expect that an oil-filled electric radiator will keep it nice and toasty.

Mike


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## Chippyjoe (12 Jan 2010)

Mike,

that is going to be one nice workshop,you should congratulate your archictect on a nice set of plans :lol: 

One observation,if you are going for heavy bits of kit re the P/T and T/S,and your dislike towards moving machinery about perhaps siting the two further apart. As your drawing shows them together,I realise that it is not set in stone,but I personally like to be able to walk around both my T/S and P/T,but I guess everyone is different.

Will be a nice one to follow if you do WIP's,good luck on the build.

Mark.


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## MikeG. (12 Jan 2010)

Mark,

I've never used a tablesaw, so I had no idea I might need access all round. I'll play with that when I get it, but think I have enough room to split them up a bit if necessary. However, with my PT I have never needed access to the "back", except when I stripped the whole thing when I bought it. 

For a table-saw novice, can you explain why I would need to have access all round?

Mike


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## Chippyjoe (12 Jan 2010)

Mike,

not telling you how to set your shop up,but depending on what saw you buy,they some times have access panels for wiring or cleaning out etc, etc.
And if the law of sod works for you as it does me! then when you cant get to something is usually the time you need to, so working on that scenario I just thought I might mention it. 
Also if you decide to cut sheet materials on the T/S will they clear past the fence on the P/T,again just a thought.

Mark.


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## OPJ (13 Jan 2010)

Mike,

I'd definitely consider keeping a clear space in front of and behind the saw (that's a no-brainer! :roll. As you've got a radial arm saw though, I guess you won't be using it for cross-cutting often and I can think of any operation where you would need to operate the saw from the right-hand side, effectively _behind_ the rip fence...  However, this does partly depend on the extraction set up of your model and how the crown guard is attached. Ideally, it won't be one that's attached to the riving knife! :wink: It should have a hose running from the guard down toward the right-hand side of the machine... If it goes behind then, it will get in the way when you're trying to rip something wide.

Are you having a mitre saw in this workshop? I know, you'll have the RAS but, I was just wondering.


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## MikeG. (13 Jan 2010)

OPJ":2cvx86jf said:


> and how the crown guard is attached. Ideally, it won't be one that's attached to the riving knife!
> 
> Are you having a mitre saw in this workshop? I know, you'll have the RAS but, I was just wondering.



I'm planning on binning the crown guard and riving knife......


















OK, you know I'm joking  

I guess I won't know about extraction until I actually buy the machine, but it does sound as though I won't need any great access to the RHS of the saw. I don't expect I will use the saw for sheet material....at least, not full size ones. I am happy ripping those up with a hand held CS and a guide......and the space between the benches and the TS/ PT is big enough to do this and be able to walk around the sheet.

As you say, I won't ever need to do cross cutting because of the RAS. I have a big de Walt 12" sliding compound mitre saw, but I share it with a partner, and they eat space. I'll probably leave it with him.

Mike


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## JeremyM (14 Jan 2010)

Mike,

There just doesnt seem much storage space for hand tools :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Is the workbench big enough for your needs it looks a bit small if I'm judging the scale correctly.

Jeremy


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## MikeG. (15 Jan 2010)

Jeremy,

the workbench is my current bench......it is 1700x940, and that has been fine for 25 years or more! Lots of my tools live in a chest of drawers under the other bench, a few hang on the walls, and a whole lot live on a couple of shelves behind the bench. You will notice that the bench is shown standing clear of the wall.........well, that is the width of my shelves behind it.

I think there must be some myths arising about the way I work........understandable given that I constantly tell people they don't need new tools all the time. I would say that at least 75% of my work is by hand. I use power tools for stock preparation, but thereafter it is mostly hand-work. It is just that I don't believe you need vast collections of posh tools to do this. I have a reasonable collection of tools that would be roughly the equivalent of what a village or estate carpenter would have had 150 years ago.

Mike


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## big soft moose (15 Jan 2010)

Chippyjoe":16fkai7e said:


> Mike,
> 
> not telling you how to set your shop up,but depending on what saw you buy,they some times have access panels for wiring or cleaning out etc, etc.
> And if the law of sod works for you as it does me! then when you cant get to something is usually the time you need to, so working on that scenario I just thought I might mention it.
> .



also how are you bringing dust/chip extraction to the tablesaw . On some models the out port for below table extraction is on the back - with a hose going from there to the crown guard.

apart from that the only time i can think of when we've needed access to the back is when fitting jigs to the fence - you can do that from the front but it can be fiddly


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## big soft moose (15 Jan 2010)

Mike Garnham":3hwnbgf1 said:


> understandable given that I constantly tell people they don't need new tools all the time. ...... I have a reasonable collection of tools that would be roughly the equivalent of what a village or estate carpenter would have had 150 years ago.



in fact given mike's stated aversion to buying new tools they probably *are* the tools the village carpenter had 150 years ago !


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## CNC Paul (15 Jan 2010)

big soft moose":3egxgenr said:


> Mike Garnham":3egxgenr said:
> 
> 
> > understandable given that I constantly tell people they don't need new tools all the time. ...... I have a reasonable collection of tools that would be roughly the equivalent of what a village or estate carpenter would have had 150 years ago.
> ...




He is the village carpenter from 150 years ago ! 8) ....Reincarnate


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## JeremyM (15 Jan 2010)

Mike

My post above was just a gentle tease. I know I have more tools than I really need and in many ways envy your self discipline there but I have enjoyed exploring the merits of different tools eg LN 51/2 vs my grandfathers Norris vs HNT smoother and in the process have come to a greater understanding and proficiency. I could now do all my work with the 5/12 perhaps with 2 blades to the same standard although I'd miss the ability to reverse the blade on the hnt for scraping.

Looking at your clean and functional layout has promted me to go and sort out some of the clutter in my workshop and think through ways to improve layout and storage. So thanks for that.

Jeremy


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