# How do you store your timber?



## TheDudester (13 May 2008)

As my stock of timber slowly (very slowly) increases, I am looking for ways to store the timber that I am not using. I was wondering what others do with theirs. I have some space inside the garage and I will shuffle that around at the moment. If necessary though, I have thought of using this space in the pic below.







I would probably construct a frame, with peg holes for iron rods to support the timber.

What would I need to do to protect in terms of sun (cough) and rain. Just drop a tarpaulin down over it? Is there anyway to secure the timber in a frame like this, although I don't think that would be necessary.

The gate at the end is secured.

D


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## wizer (13 May 2008)

For the past 4yrs I have had my Yellow Balau in a corner of the drive, stickered and covered with tarp. It's been absolutely fine, still got it's colour and no excessive cracking or warping. Of course it's not pretty. That looks like a throughfare? If not then you could build something similar to the outdoor storage shed in your other thread. Basically a lean-to mini shed with a bit of ventilation. I'm probably going to do this towards the end of the year to get some much needed space in the workshop.


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## mister henderson (13 May 2008)

Is this storage required for timber that is going to be used indoors? Is the timber already air dried, kiln dried or green when you acquire it. We'll need to know this stuff if we are going to be able to provide any useful advice


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## TheDudester (13 May 2008)

mister henderson":2mzxde1x said:


> Is this storage required for timber that is going to be used indoors? Is the timber already air dried, kiln dried or green when you acquire it. We'll need to know this stuff if we are going to be able to provide any useful advice



In theory it could be a mixture of all three. I would certainly cover the timber to prevent it from getting wet/direct sunlight. The path runs south to north as the picture is taken.

Hope that helps.

D


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## mister henderson (13 May 2008)

Well, thie thing with timber is that it will try to reach moisture content equilibrium with its surroundings. Generally the warmer it is the faster this process works (hence the use of kilns when drying timber)

If you are going to use it indoors then unless warps, splits and shakes are part of the design then timber from outside, even if covered, isn't going to be suitable.

Air dried timber is fine for garden furniture but not really suitable fro use inside modern centrally heated houses, where the relative humidity can easily drop below 30% in the winter


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## TheDudester (13 May 2008)

mister henderson":2ejv8i63 said:


> Well, thie thing with timber is that it will try to reach moisture content equilibrium with its surroundings. Generally the warmer it is the faster this process works (hence the use of kilns when drying timber)
> 
> If you are going to use it indoors then unless warps, splits and shakes are part of the design then timber from outside, even if covered, isn't going to be suitable.
> 
> Air dried timber is fine for garden furniture but not really suitable fro use inside modern centrally heated houses, where the relative humidity can easily drop below 30% in the winter



I didn't fully appreciate this.

Thank you for the explanation.

D


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## OPJ (13 May 2008)

You could always use that space to store timber that's been freshly cut for seasoning, so that you could then turn it in to something a couple of years later. :wink: 

A roofspace is ideal in your workshop for storing timber, especially at this time of year.


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## TheDudester (13 May 2008)

OPJ":1tfhlf8v said:


> You could always use that space to store timber that's been freshly cut for seasoning, so that you could then turn it in to something a couple of years later. :wink:
> 
> A roofspace is ideal in your workshop for storing timber, especially at this time of year.



The space is there to be used if need be. 

When the garage was built the roof was lined with plasterboard. There would be a lot of usable space up there.

When the need arises 'll know what to do.

D


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## Frank Drew (25 May 2008)

mister henderson":37yfmack said:


> Well, thie thing with timber is that it will try to reach moisture content equilibrium with its surroundings. Generally the warmer it is the faster this process works (hence the use of kilns when drying timber)
> 
> If you are going to use it indoors then unless warps, splits and shakes are part of the design then timber from outside, even if covered, isn't going to be suitable.
> 
> Air dried timber is fine for garden furniture but not really suitable fro use inside modern centrally heated houses, where the relative humidity can easily drop below 30% in the winter



Respectfully, I disagree with this, although I might have misunderstood something in what you said.

Air dried timber absolutely does not automatically warp, spit or check; of course, it needs to be stacked and stickered correctly, and protected from the elements, including direct sunlight. Here in the U.S. most kiln-dried timber is in fact initially air-dried for a period of up to a few months; I don't know the practice in Britain. Additionally, here in the states most kiln-dried timber is eventually stored in unheated, though covered, locations for some time before sale to the end user; that's effectively the same as outdoor storage minus the rainfall. Sometimes space limitations necessitate (covered) outdoor storage for wood we've bought that had been kiln dried; it will never go back to the moisture content it had when green, but will fluctuate winter to summer with level of ambient humidity.

Air-dried stuff is ready to be worked after several years air drying (depending on thickness, and more is better); of course, any wood for a project needs to be brought into the shop well ahead of working it up, to allow it to acclimate to an indoor environment. A moisture meter should be considered an essential shop tool, no matter what the source of your timber. 

I believe that Edward Barnsley's and Alan Peter's shops, to name just two of the better known, have had great success working with native timbers, carefully air dried. Among the best timber I've used, in terms of workability and color, has been stuff I've air-dried myself.

[Of course, I've also had some lovely walnut stolen while in outdoors storage :evil:.]


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## Grinding One (26 May 2008)

Not to mention bugs....leave it outside and you may have visitors to the site.


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## woodbloke (26 May 2008)

Frank Drew":29myesqd said:


> mister henderson":29myesqd said:
> 
> 
> > Well, thie thing with timber is that it will try to reach moisture content equilibrium with its surroundings. Generally the warmer it is the faster this process works (hence the use of kilns when drying timber)
> ...



This is a good assessment of how to store timber outside and Frank is quite correct in that the Barnsley shop stores all its timber in large, spacious open air sheds. Timber is then brought in to a shop environment a few months before making to reduce the MC to indoor conditions - Rob


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## TheDudester (26 May 2008)

I have seen Norm store his timber this way too.

Although he also has "friends of the show" sending him stuff.

Lucky b*****d!

D


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## wizer (26 May 2008)

Every timber yard I have ever been to stores it's timber outside. As long as it is protected from the element, it will be fine. Just remember (as I recently didn't) to bring it in to acclimatise to its final surroundings for a couple of weeks.


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## TheDudester (26 May 2008)

WiZeR":266phs33 said:


> Every timber yard I have ever been to stores it's timber outside. As long as it is protected from the element, it will be fine. Just remember (as I recently didn't) to bring it in to acclimatise to its final surroundings for a couple of weeks.



Thanks for the tip WiZeR 

D


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## OPJ (26 May 2008)

Grinding One":lbl69dzx said:


> Not to mention bugs....leave it outside and you may have visitors to the site.



I find tiny bugs or insects tend to live in the bark of the timber, no matter how dry it is. They're not the kind that will try and eat their way through and destroy the timber so, when buying waney-edge stuff, I always try to rip two straight edges on each board before storing them indoors to dry.

Sometimes, it can be impractical, depending on the length and width... But that's when you clamp the timber down and use a hand-held circular saw instead! :wink:


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## mister henderson (26 May 2008)

WiZeR":3aema0wf said:


> Every timber yard I have ever been to stores it's timber outside.



That's fine, and will be OK if as you says it's brought inside to acclimatise before use

AS LONG AS IT HAS ALREADY BEEN KILN DRIED!!!!!!1

We didn't get a clear answer from the OP when I asked about the source of the timber.

One thing is for sure, and that is that unless the timber has been kiln dried at some point it will NOT be suitable for use indoors


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## Tusses (26 May 2008)

Kiln or Air dried - I still thought it was just a matter of time before they reached the same moisture content ?

I have some air dried oak in my shop - I'll go and measure the content in a bit, and compare it to some Kiln dried stuff.

I must admit I keep all mine in the workshop for so long I havent measured the content for ages - never had any problems. Then again - we dont have central heating !


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## OPJ (26 May 2008)

The problem is when people try to kiln dry timber too soon - or, in the most severe cases, without even air-drying the timber. That's when it will dry out too fast, which would lead to sever splitting, etc. I think you can also end up with trapped moisture within the timber this way, which is known as case hardening?

I always assumed that most companies kiln-dry the last few % so as to save time and have it ready to sell on, rather than to have it sat there for several more weeks where it can't be touched?


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## mister henderson (26 May 2008)

Tusses":25ctt7uc said:


> Kiln or Air dried - I still thought it was just a matter of time before they reached the same moisture content ?



The important thing about the kiln drying is the kilning. *It's the heat that forces the wood to give up its moisture*, then it's up to the drying equipment to remove that water. Air drying can produce the same effect, but will take many years in some case. Air drying something like 2" oak for use in a centrally heated house, you are probably thinkng time scales similar to maturing vintage port.



Tusses":25ctt7uc said:


> I must admit I keep all mine in the workshop for so long I havent measured the content for ages - never had any problems. Then again - we dont have central heating !



This is a good example of matching your timber to its environment. As long as you don't feel the need to fit central heating you should carry on like this. It's the way furniture has been made for hundreds of years and very effective too.


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## Frank Drew (26 May 2008)

mister henderson":3h3c7qjt said:


> One thing is for sure, and that is that unless the timber has been kiln dried at some point it will NOT be suitable for use indoors



Not to beat this thing to death, and maybe we can just agree to disagree, but the above is simply not true, at least in my experience and that of some others whose work has stood the test of time.

I agree, however, with your later posting that air-drying takes considerably longer than kiln drying. The often recommended one year drying per inch of thickness, plus a year, is about half of what I'd give.


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## Frank Drew (26 May 2008)

A number of years ago now, vacuum drying of timber was being touted as the wave of the future; I haven't heard a thing about it since then I'm not sure what the current state of play is with it nowadays.

Lately, there's a bit of excitement about microwave drying; very high startup costs for the equipment, balanced by very quick turnaround times coupled with good results and fewer of the flaws associated with conventional kiln drying.

May prove a flash in the pan, or may actually turn out to be a viable technique, and one with potentially significant energy savings.

We'll see.


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## woodbloke (26 May 2008)

mrhenderson wrote:


> One thing is for sure, and that is that unless the timber has been kiln dried at some point it will NOT be suitable for use indoors


This is a *completely* incorrect statement. Provided that freshly felled timber is stacked correctly under cover, with a good circulation of air, it will come down to roughly 20% MC, time taken is one year per 25mm of thickness. This is not suitable for use in a modern centrally heated home so a further period of conditioning is needed to bring the MC down to around 10% which is generally accepted to be suitable for indoor use. This secondary drying time can take *a lot* more than a couple of weeks, more like a couple of months in a _moderately_ warm environment, ie not next to a toasty lounge radiator in the middle of January...a cooler bedroom where the heat is at a minimum (at least in my house, in fact it's off in the winter) is ideal IMO. However it's done, it must be done with some care as too quick and the timber will warp, twist and split as my elm will testify :x - Rob


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## mister henderson (26 May 2008)

woodbloke":1brvz2yr said:


> mrhenderson wrote:
> 
> 
> > One thing is for sure, and that is that unless the timber has been kiln dried at some point it will NOT be suitable for use indoors
> ...



We must all speak as we find. However it isnt just the speed of drying that makes timber warp, twist and split, it's the process of drying itself. Wood cannot maintain the same dimensions dry as it can when it is wet. As different parts of the tree hold different amounts of water, there will always be some of the above defects when wood is thoroughly dried.

More info here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wood_drying


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## wizer (26 May 2008)

I experienced the stresses in a piece of wood for the first time today. It went into the thicknesser flat and true and as it came out of the other end I saw it warp before my eyes.


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## woodbloke (26 May 2008)

Kilning of timber is an industrial process (not sure when it was first introduced but I assume some time in the late Victorian or early 20cent.) to speed up drying times for commercial operations, time is money etc and a quicker throughput of timber is in everyone's interests who actually needs it.
Which begs the question...what happened in the 'golden age' of english cabinetmaking, reckoned to be in the Regency period, say from 1810 to 1820? This was the time when work was done which has seldom been surpassed, I'm pretty sure that the cabinet makers of the day didn't have access to vast quantities of kiln dried stuff. More likely is that all their timber was carefully air-dried and then used within a cooler environment. Granted, central heating in modern homes does upset these sorts of pieces.
However you slice it, completely air dried timber *is* suitable for use in modern homes, it just takes a lot longer to bring it down to a suitable moisture level. The elm cabinet I'm doing at the moment is using totally air dried stock and it's taken me a long time with frequent small machinings to bring it to size and more importantly, keep it stable (elm do like to move around a bit :roll: :wink: ) The pic below:







(and apologies to those who've seen it before) is one made from air dried elm and was finished last April, so it's been a year now in a centrally heated house...and there are no sticky drawers  - Rob


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## Sgian Dubh (26 May 2008)

mister henderson":tt7m38ot said:


> *It's the heat that forces the wood to give up its moisture*



Not quite true mr h. It's the relative humidity combined with heat that causes wood to release moisture quickly in a kiln, plus a means to remove the moisture out of the kiln. For example, a sustained temperature of 90ºC with sustained RH of 75% brings wood down to about 10% MC. True, the end result will almost certainly include severe drying faults such as end splitting or surface checks; case hardening or reverse case hardening; core collapse, honeycombing, etc. Similarly if the wood is stickered up in conditions of 20ºC and 45% RH it will also reach an EMC of 10%, but again there could be drying faults similar to those listed earlier.

Neither of the above sets of conditions are realistic ones for a conventional high temperature wood drying kiln. The basic feature of all kiln schedules is kiln runs begin with lower temperature settings and higher relative humidity values and move towards ever higher temperatures and reduced humidity levels. As an example a kiln run using one of several published schedules for particular species and plank thickness starts with a dry bulb temperature of 35ºC and wet bulb reading of 30.5º C resulting in approximately 70% RH. Through a series of steps the last setting of this kiln schedule are 60ºC dry bulb, 40.5ºC wet bulb resulting in RH an condition of 30%.

I'll also disagree with your assertion that all air dried wood is unsuitable for interior furniture destined for a climate controlled atmosphere. What's required is to bring the air dried boards into a climate that's the same, or very similar to the interior conditions into which the finished object will go into service. Here in the UK air dried wood doesn't usually get much below 20%MC, with about 17% MC the lowest I've seen. The boards should be stickered up in the drier conditions with a decent air flow to bring the MC down to about 9 or 11% prior to working it.

Here's just one more example of air dried wood used for interior furniture. Steam bending is most easily achieved with green wood because it's flexible, and most difficult to achieve with wood kilned to US standards, ie, 7% MC because it's stiffer. The most common compromise is air dried wood at about 20- 22% MC. This is chosen because some of the drying shrinkage and distortion has occurred as the wood is below Fibre Saturation Point (FSP), ie, 30%MC, depending on the species, its extractives content and its structure. Steaming actually hastens drying of the wood and it comes out of the steamer drier than it went in and once the part is bent the wood will be at about 19-20%MC. At that point it's only got to lose about 9 to 10% MC to be in the mid-range of MC it will experience in service. Slainte.


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## Digit (26 May 2008)

This is getting too technical for me. I use a lot of reclaimed timber, air dried, kiln dried, I haven't the slightest idea.
A couple of weeks under the bed and it's machined, and I have had no problems what so ever!

Roy.


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## Mutley Racers (5 Jun 2019)

Hi, I am looking to make a bit more space in my garage so thinking of building a storage place for timber. Basically off cuts of birch ply etc and studding. 

Can anyone recommend a site that tells me how to do this effectively.

Thank you


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## disco_monkey79 (6 Jun 2019)

I store smaller pieces in a purpose-built cavity under my bench. It adds extra heft, so the bench doesn't budge a millimetre when hand planing, etc.

I struggle to lift the bench when empty, so when laden, it isn't going anywhere.


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