# "Excalibur" scroll saws



## AES (23 Feb 2022)

The reason why I've put Excalibur in quotes above will soon become apparent:

These machines generally have a good rep, but since the original Canadian design and manufacturing ("Somerville") was taken over by a bigger Canadian company ("General International") - who sub-contracted/licenced the manufacture of these machines to a company in Taiwan - who are still extant - and since GI have now gone into liquidation/been taken over - IF YOU'RE STILL WITH ME! - things have got (or to please our Trans-Atlantic cousins should I say "gotten"?!) - rather complicated!

Due to the fact that we here on UKW have found out that for some time, that the Axminster Tools cloned version of the Excalibur scroll saw machines have been, to say the least, VERY unsatisfactory, it's become difficult to find out where/what (name) to buy if we live in UK (I don't) and want to buy a "genuine" Excalibur machine. So here goes:

AA: The US web site "Scroll Saw Village" has some V interesting (for us) info in a letter/blog form. It has a lot of relevance to UK-based UKW members. So the following is quoted in full:
QUOTE:
Excalibur Scroll Saw - What Happened?
There has been a lot of confusion around the very popular Excalibur scroll saw. They disappeared for awhile without any word. Then several saws started showing up that looked like the Excalibur, but all under different names. It turns out there was a bunch of movement between brand rights, design rights, and distribution rights that gets a little sticky. Peter Kennedy from King Canada helped shed a little light on how all of this shakes out. Hopefully you'll find it interesting and understand this confusing topic a little bit better.
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_Hi Travis, thanks for getting back to me. I will try to make this as simple and painless as possible. It is very convoluted so I think point form time lines will tell the story best. My biggest concern is scroll saw enthusiasts, knowing the reputation of the original Excalibur scroll saw, will be unaware it is still available as well as parts and help if required. Please note, my dates may be off by a bit but you will get the idea as to how things have evolved.
FYI, King Canada is the largest supplier of wood and metal working machinery in Canada. We are almost 40 years old and are just now entering the US market.

1982 - Somerville Design introduces the Excalibur scroll saws manufactured in Toronto Ontario

2003 – General International acquires the assets of Summerville Design including the Excalibur brand. G.I. sends the 21” scroll saw to Taiwan to be manufactured and adds the 30” version.

2008 + or – G.I. adds the 16” version.

2010 – EX-21 awarded “Editor’s Choice” by Scroll Saw Woodworking and Crafts magazine._

2012 - the EX-21AE 30th anniversary edition is introduced. 1000 units available. Color changed from green to black and dust collection added to the table, stand and foot switch are included.

_2012-13 – G.I. goes back to the models EX-16, EX-21 and Ex-30 retaining the black color and other Anniversary options on all saws. No more General green..

2014 + or – G.I. is sold to DMT holdings of Seattle WA. Including the Excalibur brand but not the manufacturing rights for the scroll saw. They are held by the manufacturer in Taiwan.

2015-16 - JPW (Jet)designs their 22” saw and has it manufactured by the same Taiwan maker as the original Excalibur saws.

2016 + or – The original Taiwanese manufacturer seeks new North American distribution for the original design scroll saws.

2016 – King Canada is granted distribution rights to the original 16”, 21” and 30” saws for the Canadian market. They are branded Excelsior in Canada and King Industrial in the U.S.

2016 - Due to design similarities of the Jet 22”, the manufacturer restricts King’s U.S. distribution to the 16” and the 30” versions.

2016 – Woodcraft commits to national U.S. distribution of the King Industrial 16” and 30” scroll saws.

2017 – Seyco introduces their version of the saw manufactured by the same maker as the Excalibur, Excelsior, King Industrial and the JPW saws.

2017 - The European saws Azxminster, Pegas Etc., are all made by the same Taiwanese maker. These saws were previously supplied to them by G.I.

2018 + or - General International (DMT Holdings) begins to market a Chinese made version of the 21” saw under the Excalibur name and model number.

Summary:
The only original Excalibur saws are now branded either King Industrial (U.S.) or Excelsior (Canada). At this time, there is no original design 21” available in the U.S. The Seyco and the JPW (Jet)saws are designed after the Excalibur saws with proprietary differences. So, the King Industrial/Excelsior saws are the original design with a different name and the saw branded Excalibur is a different saw with the original name. The many manufacturing nuances and extreme tolerances make these saws virtually impossible to copy and have them function as they were originally designed.

Note, when I use the term “original”, I refer to original manufacturer, original design, original components, parts, motors, and specifications.

North American Model #’s
Original EX-16 is now Excelsior XL-16 in Canada
Original EX-16 is now King Industrial KXL-16 in the U.S.
Original EX-21 is now Excelsior XL-21 in Canada (not available in the U.S.)
Original EX-30 is now Excelsior XL-30 in Canada
Original EX-30 is now King Industrial KXL-30 in the U.S.
General still uses model #EX-21, “made in China” on the box and 16” or 30’ no longer available.
Seyco Model ST-21, 21” no other sizes available to my knowledge
Jet Model #727299K, 22” no other sizes available to my knowledge_
UNQUOTE:

So I did some more web searching over the last couple of days and here's some other releavnt stuff I found:
BB: A site I hadn't heard of has a report by a Mike Stanton (?) in the US, dated 18th Jan 2022, compares Pegas brand with Excalibur. Says there's little difference between the two. Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw vs Excalibur - Better One? - HookedOnTool

CC: And another unknown (to me) site "DIY Spotlight" shows the Pegas brand (in "the" Pegas red colour). Link:
Pegas Scroll Saw Review (2022) | DIY Spotlight

DD: I ran out of internet searching time/patience, sorry, but went back to the Scies Miniatures web site (the Swiss makers of Pegas scroll saw blades) who now advertise both their own brand "Excalibur" scroll saws, and their unique (AFAIK) "band-scroll saw" machine, which is V expensive but looks brilliant (if your budget goes that far - mine certainly doesn't)! Both of these machines have the now familiar Pegas dark red colour and carry only the "Pegas" name badges. No prices are quoted. Link:
Woodworking Machines - SCIES MINIATURES SA | Saw blades for metals with round back for jeweller and goldsmith for cutting all metals, Swiss
BUT PLEASE NOTE: As I found out before, Scies/Pegas will NOT deal direct, only through their dealers. In fact, Scies have a dealer here in Switzerland. When I ordered some new Pegas blades from that dealer (it's only about 60 Km from me) they didn't have them in stock. So they ordered my blades from Scies, and when they (the Swiss dealer) received the blades, they simply sent them on to me! (No doubt profiting from their "dealer markup along the way). I subsequently found out that the Scies/Pegas dealer in Germany, Dictum Tools, not only has Pegas blades in stock but also they ended up supplying me both quicker and cheaper than the local Swiss dealer. So you can guess where I get my blades from now!!
ALSO: I could not find a list of their dealers on their site. Don't know why.

EE: The Axminster Tools site no longer says they are the UK dealers for Scies Pegas, but they still list Pegas scroll saw blades, and show 2 models of the "Excalibur" saw in their on-line catalogue under their "Trade" designation. Presumably this is their "cloned" Excalibur version which we know have given so much trouble to UKW members within the last 4 or 5 years. The cheapest shows at just over CHF 1,000 (roughly 850 quid these days).

FF: And to close this loop, here's Dictum Tools (German dealer), Link:
Sawing | Dictum
They list the Pegas "band-scroll saw" (€ 1,300) and all 3 "Excalibur" scroll saws (30 inch €1,100) and the full range of Pegas blades.

ALSO:

FF: Amazon UK comes up with 2 Excalibur saws listings (coloured black and with Excali badges) 21 inch model, complete with stand and foot switch. No price shown (marked as "currently unavailable), manufacturer shown as General International. Presumably this info is out of date!

GG: A site called "Top Stuff" (never heard of it myself) says both 16 inch and 21 inch models available (dated 19th November 2021), markings as above, price for 21 inch, equipped exactly as above, colour/marking as above, USD 1,099.

So there you have it ladies and gents (IF you're still with me)!

IF it's still interesting, I've added links to a couple of my earlier UKW posts (about 6 years old now), in which I, A) compare my Excalibur 21 inch purchase with a Hegner 2 (that I could compare side by side at Dictum Tools Germany - my wife's present to me for my 70th birthday!). Summary: I we/bought the Excalibur!

And B) where a while later, I compare the then new Pegas "Blade Chuck" (i.e. "blade clamp" in English) with the previous Excalibur offering.
Summary: Good, but the "gold-plated packaging" doesn't IMO justify that v high price.

HTH some people.

HH: Biting the bullet - Ex 21

JJ: Sorry, can't find it, "seems to have disappeared" from search

Cheers


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## xy mosian (23 Feb 2022)

That is a very convoluted path you have navigated for us all. Thank you for the effort.
geoff


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## AES (23 Feb 2022)

Pleased to mate. Thanks. 

Yup "convoluted" is right. And it all makes thing very difficult for the poor bloomin average user who wants to buy "Brand X", (eventually) finds a source for "Brand X", then in the end, finds out that his "Brand X" is really only a cheapo cardboard copy of the real "Brand X". That's why I did it. This sort of thing really does "urine me off"!

But then, I am pretty old-fashioned" I guess - AND this sort of malarkey isn't exactly new in all sorts of industries/brands.


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## Inspector (23 Feb 2022)

Thanks for the detective work. I'm happy with my made in Canada machine. I found out the date of manufacture was in September 1997. First two numbers of the serial number are the month and the next two were the year. That would only be good for the Somerville made ones made here.

Pete


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## Devmeister (24 Feb 2022)

OMG! Are you kidding! Thanks for doing all the detective work for us.

I put off getting a scroll saw because it was confusing. At least I thought it was until I read your post! My issue was understanding blades. Pinned versus unpinned etc. none of the woodcraft or rockler people could answer questions.

I knew that Hegner was a name that often came up. But my issue was that I felt it best if the blade merely went up and down. In many designs the blade has an arc to it. Meaning that it dives into the cut and out at the same time it’s going up and down. I don’t know how much of an issue this is as I am no scroll saw guru.

Then there the issue of stands. Most saws have no stand and if available are an option.

About two weeks ago I came across a saw advertised on Craigslist. The saw was very well made, clamped up pinless blades with ease, has a nice lathe throat insert, had a blade that goes up and down with ease, and has an integral base.

Down side is the motor is not the newest or original.

I tried the saw out on some 1/2 inch walnut and it worked great. A bit load with a slight knocking sound. After listening to it with a screw driver, old hot rod trick, I determined the noise was in the motor.

So I bought the saw. Less than I spend at Starbucks for coffee in a week! Cheap!

I am considering replacing the motor with a servo drive fractional HP motor similar to what Sherline uses on their metal lathes. Precise speed control with no low end stalling. But I will likely wait for the current motor to explode and I don’t know how significant variable speed on a scroll saw is. So that’s down the road.

So far I have cut soft wood, hard wood, aluminum and brass. Even experimented using brass for inlay. Quite happy. So far I have $75 bucks USD tied up.

The saw is a Boice Crane 24 inch scroll saw. Built like a tank. The stand is sheet metal but the rest is cast iron. No plastic.

What is crazy is that saw design, it’s original logo and graphite black paint suggest it was made between the 1930s and 1940s. It may date to 1940s to no more than 1960 when the arm design was changed.

I watched a YouTube video on all the different scroll saw designs and their relative advantages and disadvantages. Seems to me that no one has come up with a universal design and that many design changes are more a method of getting around a patent than improving the saw. This post only confirms my conspiracy theory here.

At the end of the day all I want is to do some occasional scroll saw work. I don’t want to have to track down broken obsolete proprietary plastic Chinese parts to keep my saw running.


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## AES (24 Feb 2022)

Well thanks Devmeister, glad to be of some help, though I must emphasise right away that I possess no particularly US-centric knowledge - simply what I pick up from the odd US scrolling mags (I no longer subscribe to any on a regular basis), plus from several US scrolling web sites and internet posts on sites such as UKW.

It sounds as though the saw you've bought is built like a tank (though perhaps I shouldn't use that metaphor right now) :-(

Re blades, I can understand your confusion and suggest you may find some helpful info in the post affixed ("a sticky") to the top of the Scrolling & Scroll Saw section right here on UKW. It's called "Sourcing ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Blades". There are some tables there which you can download/print out, one of which is the "Never Fail Blade Chart" which will give you some good general guidance on which type/size of blade to use on which material/thickness. Unlike the other charts there, the "No Fail" is not oriented to any particular blade manufacturer - the others are mainly dealing with Pegas blades, both pinned and non-pinned, and for sheet metal, etc, use. Personally I like Pegas blades and use them almost exclusively. If you're interested, Pegas do have dealers for their blades in the USA (using their name "Vallorbe" I think. It is BTW, the name of the Swiss village where they're based).

My own experience is that about the only difference between good quality pinned and unpinned blades (apart from the higher price of the pinned!) is that A) you need a somewhat larger hole for putting the blade through when drilling for internal cuts; and B) pinned blades do generally seem to be a little stiffer than unpinned (side to side direction). Otherwise it doesn't really matter (that's my own feeling).

As to the blade going "only" up and down or up and down AND back to front, I'm not sure really. My own machine (a "real" Exc 21) CAN be adjusted to do both movements (the back & forward motion is only v small though, I guess less than a sixteenth inch). But I do indeed adjust it to do that sometimes (mainly if cutting roughly inch+ thick, high quality ply with many laminations). Otherwise I don't bother with back to front motion and frankly I don't notice much difference with or without, unless it's cutting V thin stuff when I always use up and down only. I think a lot of this has to do with blade choice which is one reason why I like the Pegas MBG ("modified blade geomety") series. But I also think it's a purely personal and a case of "whatever works for you mate". 

As to the mods to the saw you bought, I can't comment, sorry (not "qualified") but one "large crumb" of comfort I took from my original post on this subject was the statement by the "new" manufacturer of "Excalibur" saws was that spares will continue to be available (not that I need any)!

Of course I have no idea of the situation you have.

Anyway, HTH


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## OCtoolguy (24 Feb 2022)

I will add a bit here. I have never purchased a "new" scroll saw. I've only shopped the used market and after buying and selling quite a few, I now have 2 Excalibur saws, 1 green Canadian built 21 inch, and 1 green Taiwan 16inch. Both have proven to be very good quality saws. I have added the Pegas clamp set to both and that improved both saws quite a bit. I also have 1 Hegner, a 1991 Multimax 18 that has the Quick clamp and the quick release lever at the rear near the user. As a comparison of the two brands, it's very difficult as they have very dissimilar mechanisms. I like both brands. They are all 3 fun to use, run very smoothly and do everything I want to do. I like to do angled cuts for bowls and so on so the Ex saws have that tilting head feature. Very handy and easy to use. Much easier to manage the wood on a level flat surface than on a tilted table. For fine fretwork, I like the Hegner. It seems to have a better speed control system. My opinion only here. I've fitted each saw with it's own onboard dust control system so they can all be moved about independently and still have dust control. The little MetroVac 500 works great and I found a tiny cyclone unit that fits in a coffee can so everything is fitted up under the saws. Ok, enough from me. I hope this info helps.


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## Inspector (24 Feb 2022)

Got a link to the little cyclone?

Pete


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## Droogs (24 Feb 2022)

Cheers Andy, excellent stuff


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## OCtoolguy (25 Feb 2022)

Hi Pete, sorry but it appears that they are sold out. I bought all of mine from Amazon and a friend found his on either Banggood.com or Alibaba.com but when I went to those sites, I could not find them. I will check Amazon and let you know if/when I find them again. They really work great and were very cheap. Mine are both cast aluminum but they also have them in plastic. I think I gave $12 for the first one and $17 for the second. The third I can't recall.

On edit, I found this on Amazon and it is very similar to what I have. A bit more money but at least they are available. I might buy another one just to have it.



https://www.amazon.com/HOMTOL-Collector-Separator-Accessories-Woodworking/dp/B099KKJCLV/ref=pb_allspark_dp_sims_pao_desktop_session_based_7/137-8917187-4073949?pd_rd_w=p4jca&pf_rd_p=e896123b-6614-49c5-873e-d532e726c2f0&pf_rd_r=M728XVC65H8DYF9350PP&pd_rd_r=6f1358a8-0366-4a1e-8321-02fdd50ce5d9&pd_rd_wg=rqj1Z&pd_rd_i=B099KKJCLV&psc=1


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## Inspector (25 Feb 2022)

Thanks OCtoolguy. You must have bigger coffee cans than I see in the supermarkets.  I've seen those and the cast aluminium ones before but thought you found something half as big or less. I have the ClearVue version and it is half again taller.

Pete







Sorry for the hijack AES.


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## AES (25 Feb 2022)

Inspector said:


> Thanks OCtoolguy. You must have bigger coffee cans than I see in the supermarkets.  I've seen those and the cast aluminium ones before but thought you found something half as big or less. I have the ClearVue version and it is half again taller.
> 
> Pete
> 
> ...



No problem Pete. I'm the very LAST one who can legitimately complain about drift mate!


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## OCtoolguy (25 Feb 2022)

Inspector said:


> Thanks OCtoolguy. You must have bigger coffee cans than I see in the supermarkets.  I've seen those and the cast aluminium ones before but thought you found something half as big or less. I have the ClearVue version and it is half again taller.
> 
> Pete
> 
> ...


Pete, I thought I read the specs on that and it appeared to be similar to mine. Mine fastens by 3 screws right under the top rather than at the bottom so most of it is down inside a 3lb coffee can. I fabbed a lid for the can to replace the plastic one and cut a hole in it and drilled 3 screw holes to fasten it in place. The inlet/outlets are about 1 1/8" o.d. I'll try to get a pic of one of mine so you can see what to look for. They have become hard to find.


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## OCtoolguy (25 Feb 2022)

Here are a couple of pics of my first build of the dust system. I used a smaller container that I bought off of Amazon for this one. You can see how it all mounts and is plumbed up to the saw. The one pic that shows my home brew manifestation of a muffler is with the whole thing upside down. I took 2 Tropical orange juice bottles and fabbed them into a muffler to calm the noise down from the vac. It worked far better than I thought with no back pressure. I could have stuffed something inside of the bottle but it wasn't necessary. I hope you can make heads/tails of my pics. The one of the actual saw is while it was sitting on top of my workbench while I was coming up with the plumbing for the upper/lower dust pickups. Nothing but PVC and some CPAP hose and a couple of pieces of the LocLine in 1/2" flex.


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## Inspector (25 Feb 2022)

Oh yours are smaller. Mine uses 2 1/2” vac hose so roughly 18” high. I don’t feel like getting off the couch to go check. 
Pete


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## Lefley (26 Feb 2022)

AES said:


> The reason why I've put Excalibur in quotes above will soon become apparent:
> 
> These machines generally have a good rep, but since the original Canadian design and manufacturing ("Somerville") was taken over by a bigger Canadian company ("General International") - who sub-contracted/licenced the manufacture of these machines to a company in Taiwan - who are still extant - and since GI have now gone into liquidation/been taken over - IF YOU'RE STILL WITH ME! - things have got (or to please our Trans-Atlantic cousins should I say "gotten"?!) - rather complicated!
> 
> ...


I’m not into scroll saws, but I love reading tech stuff. Thank you for doing this smashing detective work. It is sad that we see people make good companies, and then they are always sold to overseas interest when they cash out. Our oil companies in Alberta are now mostly owned by China/ usa interests.


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## OCtoolguy (22 Mar 2022)

For anybody who may be interested in what I used for my cyclone, here is a link to it on Amazon. It's no longer available but it will give you an idea of what to search for.





Amazon.com: Itlovely Cyclone SN25T5 Vacuums Cleaner Filter Fifth Generation Turbocharged Powder Dust : Everything Else


Buy Itlovely Cyclone SN25T5 Vacuums Cleaner Filter Fifth Generation Turbocharged Powder Dust: Everything Else - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


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## OCtoolguy (22 Mar 2022)

Inspector said:


> Thanks OCtoolguy. You must have bigger coffee cans than I see in the supermarkets.  I've seen those and the cast aluminium ones before but thought you found something half as big or less. I have the ClearVue version and it is half again taller.
> 
> Pete
> 
> ...


Hey Pete, I did some detective work and found the little cyclones. Here's the link to them. Cheap at twice the price. Good luck with your build.









9.94US $ 34% OFF|Drop Ship&Wholesale Cyclone SN25T5 Vacuums Cleaner Filter Fifth Generation Turbocharged Powder Dust Sep. 16|Vacuum Cleaner Parts| - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


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## OCtoolguy (22 Mar 2022)

I ordered another one just to have it on hand if needed. It's on it's way.


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## Blister (23 Mar 2022)

I purchased a EX 30 when they first came out , It stopped working within a week and was returned , Lots of issues at the time with other users also , Wiring / switches etc , Not tried a " New one " and probably won't now , Will stick with my current fleet of saws


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## AES (23 Mar 2022)

Sorry to hear of your problems Blister. Those problems are the exact reverse of my own experience, and several other users here.

Not trying to be a "smart a--e" (!) Blister, but when you say QUOTE: I purchased a EX 30 when they first came out UNQUOTE; you're not being very clear, sorry. WHAT exactly did you buy, and (roughly) when, and from whom??? E.G: Was it really an "Excalibur" or, for example, an Axminster Tools "Trade" machine?

To be clear on all that you'll need to go up to the first post right at the top of this particular thread, where you'll see that I've tried to compile a clear and concise "Excalibur story" (from several different sources BTW). Its a story which is in reality far from simple and straightforward.


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## Blister (23 Mar 2022)

AES, I made a passing comment that yes I did buy one and it stopped working , Can't remember the exact date or time sorry ,May have been around 2008 / 9 ish , However a few others on UKW had similar problems of unreliability. It was before Axminter trade , End of comment.


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## OCtoolguy (23 Mar 2022)

Blister, if you should at some point decide to purchase a new Excalibur, make sure it's not a Chinese built machine. They are junk. Look for Excelsior, King or the brand that is sold in the U.K. NO CHINESE! Taiwan stuff is ok.


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## Inspector (24 Mar 2022)

OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you? 

Pete


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## AES (24 Mar 2022)

Inspector said:


> OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you?
> 
> Pete




Well I *hope* he isn't Pete! Not only would that be a political insult to Taiwan (Ha, Ha), but mine was made in Taiwan, bought almost 7 years ago, and it's a brilliant bit of kit. I'm quite sure it'll outlast me without problem!


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## Inspector (24 Mar 2022)

AES said:


> Well I *hope* he isn't Pete! Not only would that be a political insult to Taiwan (Ha, Ha), but mine was made in Taiwan, bought almost 7 years ago, and it's a brilliant bit of kit. I'm quite sure it'll outlast me without problem!



I understand the difference between the two countries but not everyone makes the distinction. Even the related Dewalt scroll saw (Type 1 originally made in Canada using licensed Somerville patents) is produced in Taiwan as the Type 2 and regarded by many as a good saw. Country of origin isn't so much the problem, it's the importer that cheapens the machine. They are the ones that should be answering to their customers.

Pete


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## AES (24 Mar 2022)

Agreed 100%. Pete.

If the Chinese can produce aircraft and satellites for example (which they clearly can) then country of origin has little to do with "quality".

It's clear that my own "Excalibur", produced in Taiwan, must have been under pretty close control by GI, because materials specs, fasteners, tolerances, and final assembly all appear to be to a very high standard - just as high as all the standards originally applied by Somerville and GI I suspect.

I also agree that when some ("badge engineer" - a convenient phrase in this case I think) takes a basic design and cheapens it in all/most respects and then imports it, often under the original name, albeit with just a different colour say, and clearly without any form of QC save the customer finding out what's wrong, then in the 1st instance it's obviously the often poor unknowing customer who ends up in trouble!

But it also tarnishes what was, originally, a good name/reputation.

This kind of carp really does annoy me, and it's quite clear to me now that it was only by pure luck that I ended up with an excellent machine when I bought what I did/when I bought it. (And to think that soon after my own purchase I was kicking myself because the Axminster Tools version of my machine suddenly appeared at about a hundred quid cheaper than I paid)! As my good lady often says, "even a blind chicken will find SOME corn". That was certainly me that time.


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## OCtoolguy (24 Mar 2022)

Inspector said:


> OC just to be clear. You are not lumping the Taiwanese made machines in the "NO CHINESE!" are you?
> 
> Pete


What I meant Pete is anything coming out of mainland China. The saws coming from Taiwan are all great saws. Anything with the name Excalibur now have been perverted by the Chinese. Shoddy quality control and cheap bearings. The parts are not interchangeable between their stuff and the good stuff. Let's pray that Taiwan remains independent from China.


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## OCtoolguy (24 Mar 2022)

Inspector said:


> I understand the difference between the two countries but not everyone makes the distinction. Even the related Dewalt scroll saw (Type 1 originally made in Canada using licensed Somerville patents) is produced in Taiwan as the Type 2 and regarded by many as a good saw. Country of origin isn't so much the problem, it's the importer that cheapens the machine. They are the ones that should be answering to their customers.
> 
> Pete


I disagree. The importer can only import what is available. And if that is an inferior product, they will get nothing but complaints and will discontinue importing them. The problem is at the manufacturing end. They are buying things that are well made and then figuring out how to cheapen them. Resulting in inferior products. The Excalibur had an excellent reputation for many years but once the patents wore off, they were open to cheapening. They started by using cheap bearings and in many cases bearings that had little or no grease in them. That's why anybody who buys one of these saws used, (I have 2) should make it a priority to tear them down for inspection. I found that both of my "green" Excaliburs, 1 Canadian and 1 Taiwanese, had grease in all the bearings but it had become dried out and hard. I took every bearing and cleaned them using rags and pipe cleaners, no solvent, and then packing them all with good Valvoline synthetic grease. My saws run and hum like Swiss watches. On the other hand, I know of a fellow who bought an Excalibur, new still in the box, for a very cheap price. Turns out to be a black Chinese model. He's had nothing but trouble with it and finally ended up buying all the Excalibur parts from Seyco and putting them in it. Now he has a good saw. End of story.


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## AES (24 Mar 2022)

I disagree AND agree! True, some importers can only import what is available, but some others (in Europe anyway) seem to deliberately set out to buy/import something that they can sell cheaper than the opposition while - apparently selling the same item.

The result though is the same - some buyer, having heard that Brand X is great, buys one, and - of course - looks for the cheapest price (unless he's found out that such items aren't necessarily the same).

The end result is the same from "our" p.o.v. - buyer gets a load of carp and Brand X gets a bad name.


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## OCtoolguy (25 Mar 2022)

Ok, we are in agreement and I think the only thing separating us is where we live. We have a company here by the name of Woodcraft and they sell the King 16 & 21 inch saws that used to be the Excaliburs. They are made in Taiwan. In Canada I think they are called Excelcior and still great saws. But we also have Excalibur saws that look just like the originals in black. They are coming from mainland China and are what I'm talking about. Junk. They are fine for a while but then they start to show where they have been cheapened. By that time, all warranties have expired and you might just as well rubbish-can them and start over. If you want a truly fine piece of equipment, buy a Pegas. It is as close to the original Excalibur as you can get but maybe even better. They have put larger bearings in some spots in them and the quality control is what you would expect from the Swiss. These saws all come out of the same factory but go through different production lines and quality control inspections. All good saws. Let the buyer beware. If it says made in China, don't buy it.


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## OCtoolguy (5 Apr 2022)

Blister said:


> I purchased a EX 30 when they first came out , It stopped working within a week and was returned , Lots of issues at the time with other users also , Wiring / switches etc , Not tried a " New one " and probably won't now , Will stick with my current fleet of saws


Don't be afraid of the new saws. Just stay away from any of them that say "Made in China" as they are junk. Stick to Taiwan. The brands to stick with are Excelcior, King, Pegas and in some cases Axminster. If it has the Excalibur name on it, don't buy it unless you do your due diligence.


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