# Shotgun Box WIP



## kinsella (5 Aug 2016)

Colleagues
I decided to build a wooden box for my Beretta over and under. The box will be posher than the shotgun. Can't seem to find any WIP's for a shotgun box so thought i'd share. i had some old antique oak. The oak had original animal glue joints, so i cut these out and re-glued the boards back together. I had intended to use 18mm oak but when i put them together they weighed a bit so i planed down to 12mm and this was more manageable. 

The joints are finger joints using my box cutting jig. See link here for how it was built. 
box-joint-jig-sketchup-plans-free-of-charge-t87240-60.html





Image of box








Old Oak




Looks good cleaned up




Using box making jig to cut the fingers




Fingers cut




Glued top to sides




Glues bottom to sides




Starting to work on corner protectors. Making them from scratch and will silver solder all the bits back together.





The ironmongery hinges will be Brusso hinges. 

Can anyone recommend catches for the front?? The stuff on Ebay seems to be either pressed metal or gold plated stuff. I want solid brass. i was looking at the attached from "Jewellery Box Hardware" http://www.jewelleryboxhardware.com/Sli ... ass-Finish. But not sure if these are sufficient for a heavy type box. Any better ideas?

I intend to build the handle, corner protectors etc from scratch and will post WIP pictures as i go.


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## kinsella (5 Aug 2016)

Brass corners to be silver soldered together.


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## Water-Mark (5 Aug 2016)

Looks like a nice storage box and a good use of quality old timber.

I've been tempted to make a similar box for my archery gear, though i don't have any wood as posh as that.

Is there a reason for making the brass corners?


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## kinsella (5 Aug 2016)

Water-Mark":1206lh2i said:


> Looks like a nice storage box and a good use of quality old timber.
> 
> I've been tempted to make a similar box for my archery gear, though i don't have any wood as posh as that.
> 
> Is there a reason for making the brass corners?




The corners I've found are so flipping expensive for what they actually are and to be honest I've wanted to experiment with silver solder for a while. I'll give it a go, if it turns out rubbish, i'll buy them. But I love doing stuff i haven't done before. 

The plan is to cut the brass edges on the table saw at 45deg, similarly the front face of the protectors, then mate them and silver solder. Then i have a polishing kit to remove any excess solder and bring to gloss finish. Then dip in lacquer.


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## t8hants (5 Aug 2016)

I like that, I have a Parker Hale P1853 3 band Enfield rifled musket that I shoot, and I am thinking of making a full box for it, and all its tools and gubbins, in the classic style.


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## Bm101 (5 Aug 2016)

Looking forward to updates!


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## sunnybob (6 Aug 2016)

I keep planning similar for my shotgun, but the plastic boxes are so light to carry the gun around in and very forgiving if you "toss" the gun into the back of the car. A wooden box would be nice if you could leave it on display though.


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## graduate_owner (6 Aug 2016)

Very nice work. My only comment is check whether it would be approved storage with your local police. Ours require a steel cabinet, 2 locks which must not be 'get at-able' ( there's a word for this, can't think of it now) from the outside, and it must be bolted to a solid wall. You could perhaps line this with steel if necessary.

K


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## sunnybob (6 Aug 2016)

the definition on the locks is that they cant be opened with tools of opportunity.
so leaving a disc cutter next to the safe is a BIG no no.
But even the police accept that if a criminal wants the gun badly enough they will come equipped.

The wooden box will not satisfy any police force in the UK for long term storage alone. It would have to be inside a locked room or steel cabinet.


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## adidat (6 Aug 2016)

I'm pretty sure this will just be for transporting purposes!


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## Biliphuster (7 Aug 2016)

If you are looking for Locks, I can recommend these

https://www.nichelocks.com/Traditional- ... c3753f8542

(no relationship, just happy customer etc etc). Absolutely lovely quality and made in England, Several notches above most cheap box locks.

As for brass corners, I finished a campaign style box recently and tried out a few different suppliers. The Armac Martin ones were thin and soldered together, felt a bit cheap if I'm being honest. The much cheaper "Prima" or Primalite ones were cast and very nice quality, they even came with the correct solid brass slotted screws. The ones from ebay are also acceptable and extremely economical. Having said that, the ones you are making look very nice themselves.


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## kinsella (7 Aug 2016)

graduate_owner":2b3qg3sg said:


> Very nice work. My only comment is check whether it would be approved storage with your local police. Ours require a steel cabinet, 2 locks which must not be 'get at-able' ( there's a word for this, can't think of it now) from the outside, and it must be bolted to a solid wall. You could perhaps line this with steel if necessary.
> 
> K



The case is only for transport into and out of hotels so it doesn't look like a gun box. My plastic box is great, but it has Beretta written all over it.


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## kinsella (7 Aug 2016)

sunnybob":1dmf9nbx said:


> the definition on the locks is that they cant be opened with tools of opportunity.
> so leaving a disc cutter next to the safe is a BIG no no.
> But even the police accept that if a criminal wants the gun badly enough they will come equipped.
> 
> The wooden box will not satisfy any police force in the UK for long term storage alone. It would have to be inside a locked room or steel cabinet.



Chaps, any licenced gun owner will have a steel approved gun box. So this is only for transport. It can go in a fabric or leather slip when being transported. So this is purely decorative for transport.


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## kinsella (7 Aug 2016)

Biliphuster":1oti9bum said:


> If you are looking for Locks, I can recommend these
> 
> https://www.nichelocks.com/Traditional- ... c3753f8542
> 
> ...



4" long might be too big but it does look sturdy. Will give it more thought. I must admit the one thing i didn't do yet, is check the drawer full of locks that i have. I might get lucky. Will keep you posted.

Edit: On reflection, some of the other locks available look perfect.


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## kinsella (7 Aug 2016)

Update:
Box now out of the clamps. i meant to take a picture before i put the bottom on, as one problem i find when cutting tops off boxes with a table saw is when you do the last side, i always seem to get a slight bit of extra cut which is visible when the two half's are put back together. So this time I hot glued in supports on all sides so that when i cut the two apart, they will still be stuck by the supports inside. I will then hand cut these apart and then knock them out. Will post a photo to explain, especially if it works.





I then put the angle part into my milling machine and cut a perfectly perpendicular 2mm slot. This is to make the bend perfectly 90deg.





I then made a jig out of scrap and ran it through the table saw at 45deg, to form the bevel for when i mate the top and sides together. Forgot to take a photo of this operation, but you can see from the photo if the angle section was flat what the idea was. 

Because of the milling operation, i hand bent these and they are perfectly 90deg. You can see how well they turned out sitting on the cast iron saw top. No gaps.

NEXT STEP: Cutting a mating bevel on the half round corner protector top so that i have two chamfers meeting to solder to.


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## adidat (7 Aug 2016)

I like the idea for gluing blocks inside to stop it falling apart!

Adidat


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## kinsella (10 Aug 2016)

Update:

i adapted the jig to cut bevels on the corners.





Once cut, i can add flux for soldering





Then solder





A little sanding prior to polishing





This is what they look like on the box





The box with a sanding sealer added. Still not cut it apart yet.


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## karlpolly10 (10 Aug 2016)

Lovely job, makes me wish I was shooting again, from what I remember you will need good locks and a rest ain't in the vehicle which it will be transported in. Again lovely work hope to see the finished article.


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## kinsella (10 Aug 2016)

karlpolly10":ixmle3by said:


> Lovely job, makes me wish I was shooting again, from what I remember you will need good locks and a rest ain't in the vehicle which it will be transported in. Again lovely work hope to see the finished article.



To be fair the lock is irrelevant. If they are daft enough to nick it out of a car or a hotel, then a lock isn't going to help much. So i'm toying will allowing for a stainless steel wire to go through the box and into the trigger, then that way i can lock it to the car, radiator or some other fixture when i'm out with it. That way the whole this is knackered if its stolen as they would have to rip it from the fixture as well. 

Next step is to cut the top off. Maybe tomorrow. I'm on hols, and having a staycation. Bliss  woodworking during the day and Olympics during the afternoon and evening. SWMBO hates it, but i'm smiling within!!!!!!!


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## Water-Mark (10 Aug 2016)

Those brass corners came out really nice.
I can see why you opted to make them.

Table saw cut them ok?


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## kinsella (11 Aug 2016)

Water-Mark":1geeehsu said:


> Those brass corners came out really nice.
> I can see why you opted to make them.
> 
> Table saw cut them ok?



The blade has a tungsten carbide tip so it cut them very well. I made a blade sharpening jib a while back so ruining blades is no longer a problem (as long as i don't knock off the carbide). Brass and aluminium are pretty soft metal really. I use carbide tips on my metal lathe to cut toughened steel so aluminium and brass must be a doddle. 

I'm not sure how to clean them. So i think i'll stick them in a hot bowl with soapy water to get the residue flux off. 

Q: Anyone know if white vinegar will do as a acid bath for something like getting flux and oils off?


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## kinsella (11 Aug 2016)

I meant to point out that one of the box joints is cut oversized by the thickness of the saw blade. So when i cut the top off all the box fingers are equal size.


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## Bm101 (11 Aug 2016)

kinsella":2tuevtfd said:


> Q: Anyone know if white vinegar will do as a acid bath for something like getting flux and oils off?



Does this help? I've just bought some citric acid off the net, it's pennies really.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/ ... p?th=45304
Enjoying the WIP.
Cheers
Chris


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## kinsella (11 Aug 2016)

Bm101":3eera5oh said:


> kinsella":3eera5oh said:
> 
> 
> > Q: Anyone know if white vinegar will do as a acid bath for something like getting flux and oils off?
> ...




Perfect. Will give it a go.


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## kinsella (11 Aug 2016)

me: Forgive me father, but i have sinned. 
Father: What have you done my son
me: i told a forum i silver soldered, but i effed it all up and the solder wouldn't effing move. So i copped out and used ordinary solder instead.
Father: say two hail Marys and confess your sins!!

Yip, i used ordinary solder. It still did the job though.


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## kinsella (12 Aug 2016)

Update:
Top cut off but still held with the internal supports.





The top off and you can see how i supported the top while cutting it apart.





Cleaned up any burn marks.





Close up of the joints, you can see the fingers are all the same size. 





Starting to work on corner protectors for the exposed corners when the box is open.





Now cut awaiting final sizing.





Next Step:
Lots and lots of sanding for the box and lots of polishing for the brass. Also making a leather and brass handle from scratch.


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## kinsella (13 Aug 2016)

Update:
Not much done today. Spent 2 hours just cleaning the shotgun. Yes for those of you who own or have owned a shot gun. No it doesn't take 2 hours to clean an standard over and under, but it does when you haven't done it for 3 months and you shoot every week with it. So was just trying positioning. I need to consider balance versus space. You can see i can build a large box to fit within the main box to cater for accessories.









Any comments or suggestions?


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## kinsella (29 Aug 2016)

Not been in the workshop for a few weeks. But managed to get some work over the weekend. Gave the wood 4 spray coats of lacquer. Final polishing coats yet to come but allows me to continue with the ironmongery. This is what it looks like now. 






lock been cut in. 




close up of one of the catches.




Hinges fitted.


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## monkeybiter (30 Aug 2016)

Coming together nicely, decided on the layout yet? Don't forget the balance will change once you fit the internal storage box [and fill it, esp. if you will have ammo in there].


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## kinsella (31 Aug 2016)

monkeybiter":3euony4h said:


> Coming together nicely, decided on the layout yet? Don't forget the balance will change once you fit the internal storage box [and fill it, esp. if you will have ammo in there].



Probably going to leave that to last. The barrel is easy as it can only go in one way and i have to decide which end goes left or right, as the barrel is not balanced and has a heavy end.


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## kinsella (31 Aug 2016)

Latest problem. As you can see I didn't pilot the hole all the way and snapped off the screw head (top left). It took no pressure at all, must be cheap screws off eBay. My current proposal to get it out, is to use a 6mm piece of steel as a jig. The screw is circa 1.5mm thick. So i was thinking if i drill a 2mm or 2.5mm hole into the steel and clamp that to the wood and use it as a stabilising jig to then drill out the screw. Then simply plug the small hole.

Or do you think the drill at that size will wonder and snap, or do i just go large and use a 3 or 4mm drill and then plug a bigger hole??


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## kinsella (9 Oct 2016)

Not been in the workshop in a while. But finally got back to working on the box. Mainly polishing the brass. 

Corner protectors.







lock


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## monkeybiter (9 Oct 2016)

How did you fix the sheared screw?


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## kinsella (10 Oct 2016)

monkeybiter":1bv4gik5 said:


> How did you fix the sheared screw?



i drilled a 3mm hole in a piece of steel and then clamped that to the box and used it as a jig to drill out the brass screw. Worked pretty well. Then drilled out a 4mm hole to even it up and plugged it with a piece of 4mm matching oak.


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## Bm101 (10 Oct 2016)

That looks very tidy Kinsella, and the solution for the broken screw was smart. Are you planning to put a key plate (think that's the word) in?
The brass corners came out very well. =D> Do you protect the brass in anyway like adding a protective coat or are you happy for it to age naturally. In a roundabout way I'm hunting for answers on what if anything to do with a bit of brass I've been working on for a little project. I'm in two minds after spending some time getting it polished up to try and protect it or tbh my natural inclination which is to let time do its work. My brass is for a tool so it's a bit different (maybe) but I'm always interested to store up a few tips.
Enjoying the thread still, and glad you've found a bit of time to continue.
Regards 
Chris


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## kinsella (11 Oct 2016)

Bm101":2w9hnobq said:


> That looks very tidy Kinsella, and the solution for the broken screw was smart. Are you planning to put a key plate (think that's the word) in?
> The brass corners came out very well. =D> Do you protect the brass in anyway like adding a protective coat or are you happy for it to age naturally. In a roundabout way I'm hunting for answers on what if anything to do with a bit of brass I've been working on for a little project. I'm in two minds after spending some time getting it polished up to try and protect it or tbh my natural inclination which is to let time do its work. My brass is for a tool so it's a bit different (maybe) but I'm always interested to store up a few tips.
> Enjoying the thread still, and glad you've found a bit of time to continue.
> Regards
> Chris



I was wondering if i should do an escutcheon (key plate thingy :lol: ) I have a mill so i can cut the round and the slot tidy enough, but i think the simpleness of the small slot you see i might leave it. 
The brass corners looks good at the mo, i was thinking of dipping them in lacquer to keep the colour, but i may just leave them as they will get scratched i suspect and i'm torn with the scratched lacquer look or just opting for Brasso every now and then. 

Next bits are leather work and making a handle from scratch.


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## n0legs (11 Oct 2016)

kinsella":dhyeigan said:


> Bm101":dhyeigan said:
> 
> 
> > That looks very tidy Kinsella, and the solution for the broken screw was smart. Are you planning to put a key plate (think that's the word) in?
> ...





Speaking as an electrical engine-ear, the sight of a little tarnished brass is far more preferable than a scratched up and flaking lacquer finish.
If it can be left alone and not handled lacquer might be fine. For something that's used, moved and abused, a little love with some metal polish now and again is no biggie. 
Just my opinion, thought I'd share


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## kinsella (13 Oct 2016)

n0legs":1u6la0qp said:


> kinsella":1u6la0qp said:
> 
> 
> > Bm101":1u6la0qp said:
> ...



I tend to agree and i'm not going to add any finish to the brass.


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## kinsella (15 Oct 2016)

I think i underestimated how long the metal work takes. Polishing, filing etc etc. then accidentally scratching, re polishing etc. 

Progress so far.


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## n0legs (15 Oct 2016)

kinsella":6whtr6mi said:


> I think i underestimated how long the metal work takes. Polishing, filing etc etc. then accidentally scratching, re polishing etc.



Look good though =D> 
Some things are worth it :wink:


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## kinsella (16 Oct 2016)

In a moment of madness i promised my three shooting mates i'd build them one each as a gift. Note to self - Shut up!!!!!!


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## Bm101 (16 Oct 2016)

lol.
The thing here is to be more_ lawerly._ Turn up with 3 cardboard boxes and bluff it! I never said _oak_ boxes! Then change the subject quickly. :wink: 
Looking good and escutcheons _was _the word I was looking for!  Can you tape them up to save damage?

Cheers
Chris


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## kinsella (16 Oct 2016)

Today, decided to work on the handle. So i'm making all the bits from scratch. So i decided i'd make the D rings myself. 

So i opted to make a jig, in reality it meant i get to play with the Clarke Mill. So i found a 25mm bar off cut. Mounted it in some V blocks.







After a bit of machining.





_Confession: the metal workers among you will already know this, I DO NOW. You shouldn't use mill cutters with an ordinary chuck!! lets just say, this photo is the second version of the jig, plus the first cutter is knackered and now scrap_






Jig in action. I heated the brass with a torch and then used gloves and a wood block to force the material around the jig. 





rough out of the jig.





Soldered the end together.






Roughly what it will look like.





The leather handle before fixing the D rings. 





Now just need to burnish the exposed edges so they look polished. Was planning to make a new leather burnishing tool. Loads of ways on Youtube, but opted to make an all singing and dancing version which caters for all sizes of leather. Will post photos as it goes. 

A retired friend of mine got me so old Lignum Vitae green bowling balls. So using one of them to make a leather burnishing tool. i glued a steel shaft into the top and then mounted it in my small metal lathe. Now turning to make the burnishing tool. 





In hindsigh the wood is a beauty to work with, it turns beautifully, it smells gorgeous when turned. It reminded me of home cooking. Weird but a lovely memory was triggered while working with it. 






So this is where i am currently. Will finish the burnishing tool, then burnish the leather and then fix the first part of the handle together.


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## kinsella (16 Oct 2016)

Bm101":1mi9f0jf said:


> lol.
> The thing here is to be more_ lawerly._ Turn up with 3 cardboard boxes and bluff it! I never said _oak_ boxes! Then change the subject quickly. :wink:
> Looking good and escutcheons _was _the word I was looking for!  Can you tape them up to save damage?
> 
> ...



Don't mind making them actually, but i never specified WHEN!!!!


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## kinsella (23 Oct 2016)

I finished the burnisher. 

Burnisher





Handle with rivets





The final part of the handle










Handle getting close to finished













The handle is connected with a folded piece of leather









Final look


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## kinsella (23 Oct 2016)

Handle now finished
Just need to work on the internal compartments next. 

Final lap as they say.


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## Bm101 (23 Oct 2016)

Fantastic.  =D>


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## memzey (23 Oct 2016)

Gorgeous. Very well done.


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## kinsella (8 Jan 2017)

It has been a while since i have been able to get into the workshop to finish the box. But i managed to get a few hours this weekend. 

Latest progress in now working on the compartments within the box. Each part of the shotgun will only touch leather.

The U sections are just under size to have a push fit. The length is also just slightly undersized, so that when its pushed into the box, it has no movement in either the X or Y dimensions. The last bit is to glue another section when done to the lid so that when the lid is closed it pushes down on the barrel to stop any Z movement. Will continue to post updates as i go.


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## mayo.mick (8 Jan 2017)

Brilliant job Kinsella!! Thanks for sharing the WIP.


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## kinsella (8 Jan 2017)

A view of the leather work, every potential contact point will be leather. The U sections and end pieces are lose fit in the photo, but in a glue-up at present. 

Next is the shotgun stock fittings.


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## AndyT (9 Jan 2017)

What a fantastic job!

I really like your dedication and thoroughness - I thought brass corners and leather handles would be bought-in components - but making those as well means the box will be really special.

I especially liked the digression into making the leather burnisher - could you say a bit about how you used it?


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## kinsella (9 Jan 2017)

AndyT":35gk8a3e said:


> What a fantastic job!
> 
> I really like your dedication and thoroughness - I thought brass corners and leather handles would be bought-in components - but making those as well means the box will be really special.
> 
> I especially liked the digression into making the leather burnisher - could you say a bit about how you used it?




I did consider buying the corner protectors and handle, but the cheaper ones were very thin and the decent ones were up to £15 each (£15 x 8 ). The handles were similar and none of the ones i could afford looked decent. This way all the leather within the box matches the handle. It started to add up so i opted to do it all from scratch, partly to see if i could 

To use the burnisher, all you do it spit (yip spit, the enzymes in saliva break down leather, legacy of our caveman history, you can of course buy proper stuff to do the same job, but as you can see from the tread i do everything as simple and cheap as possible.) you dampen the edge of the leather to burnish. The burnisher is mounted in the drill press and ran at a mid range speed without burning the leather and as you can see from the photo the width of the grooves is to match the thickness of the leather. I'm using circa 2mm, so when i did the handle when the two edges met i used the nearest 4-5mm groove. 

You simply run the edge back and forth and continue to put saliva on the edge until you get the desired finish. The whole texture changes and you get a mirror finish on the edge.


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## kinsella (15 Jan 2017)

Update
Managed to get a few hours in the workshop.

So finished the barrel compartment by doweling and gluing it to the U and end blocks.




Then started working on the stock holder.
















Starting to come together.




This piece looks fine when its sitting on the table, but looks a bit clunky when its in the box. I might round off the corner opposite the internal round stock holder section?

Then started on loose cutting the leather sections.


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## Hot stuff (15 Jan 2017)

If it was a bit thinner would that work? You'd have to match it at the other end if that makes sense and it might be too late for that but a step down might reduce the chunkiness.


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## kinsella (15 Jan 2017)

Hot stuff":23wg7pyt said:


> If it was a bit thinner would that work? You'd have to match it at the other end if that makes sense and it might be too late for that but a step down might reduce the chunkiness.



I initially made it the same height as the rest of the box, but i think your right. Thinner might also make it look more elegant. i think i will do both, round the corner, round the tops with a 10mm roundover and then make it thinner like you suggest. Will do a test piece to see.  watch next week to see how i get on.


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## n0legs (15 Jan 2017)

My word that's looking rather splendid =D> 
Love the handle, love the whole thing to be honest


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## kinsella (16 Jan 2017)

n0legs":aa4y2ysg said:


> My word that's looking rather splendid =D>
> Love the handle, love the whole thing to be honest



That's very kind of you. Thank you.


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## kinsella (22 Jan 2017)

It was so cold in my shed, i lasted about 2 hours max. 

But managed to do a few bits. 

I thought i'd experiment with the leather that is going to sit on the bottom of the box where the gun will sit on. So i was thinking if i make a leather patch the same shape as the leather logo (no reason but it matches the other details of the box). I previously had some branding irons made in stainless steel in the US (no reason that i actually remember). These are so cheap its unreal. My initials are KK by the way, so the branding iron output might make sense. (you can see the branding part in the second photo) The major cost is actually shipping back to UK. The making of the part is peanuts. All you need is a sketchup output file. 
See video here which explains it all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yo6hWKTo-g The US company is Shapeways.com. Does anyone know a UK or Euro supplier as cheap as these guys?

So i cut the leather, did a hot branding option (see photo-not happy with it) and currently have a debossed version drying in clamps to work out which looks better. Branded or Debossed?. Will post photos of both during the weeks when i take it out of the clamp when its ready.

I also reshaped the chunky bit i referred to in the earlier post. The rounding over looks much better.





leather work


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## kinsella (29 Jan 2017)

Update
Finally starting to come together.


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## Hot stuff (29 Jan 2017)

Spot on!


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## kinsella (27 Feb 2017)

Update 
Final tweaks.

















just got a few little bits to do now. A restraining strap to hold the lid open and fix the box lid and make a little brass knob for it.


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## n0legs (27 Feb 2017)

This is looking great =D>


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## dslrmaltrout (15 Mar 2017)

I built one in 2009 for a drinks company ....it carried two side by sides, and two over and unders. if you look for maltrout512 (thats me)..... gun box you should be able to see it.


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## kinsella (22 Mar 2017)

dslrmaltrout":1s372x0t said:


> I built one in 2009 for a drinks company ....it carried two side by sides, and two over and unders. if you look for maltrout512 (thats me)..... gun box you should be able to see it.




Very nice. The thought of having one in the boot of my 4x4 did cross my mind, maybe another day.  But nice. I hope you got a few Guinness in return @-)


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## kinsella (26 Mar 2017)

Calling it finally done. Last upload.


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## AndyT (26 Mar 2017)

Lovely work. Good for a century or two.


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## Bm101 (26 Mar 2017)

Looks amazing Kinsella, thanks for sharing, learnt some new stuff along the way and have really enjoyed the wip throughout, the wood, metal and leather work. You'll have to tell your friends there's a worldwide shortage of oak at the moment. You can't be having them sporting one too. 
Cheers 
Chris


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## WoodMangler (28 Mar 2017)

Very nice. Any chance of a picture or two with the gun in place ?


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## kinsella (28 Mar 2017)

WoodMangler":133rinep said:


> Very nice. Any chance of a picture or two with the gun in place ?




Ok, will do. Will post at weekend.


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## WoodMangler (29 Mar 2017)

kinsella":cs9m3izg said:


> WoodMangler":cs9m3izg said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice. Any chance of a picture or two with the gun in place ?
> ...


Thanks.


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## kinsella (2 Apr 2017)

As requested, pictures with the gun in the box.

I suppose i should add, that everything is just slightly undersized and is pushed into place, such that if i turn the box upside down when open nothing falls out. The leather has just enough give to hold it in place. Obviously with age and use this will relax over time. Guess what? I'll cross that bridge when i get there


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