# Spraying help pleeease - again!



## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

I'm coming to the end of my shop counter build - and need to think about finish. I sprayed Chestnut Acrlyic lacquer on the shop table and had a nightmare to be honest.

I'm using a 3HP compressor with a SATA RP gun and have also tried a Machine Mart HVLP gun.

I got patchy results - see pic below - this is after buffing out with wax and looked much worse before. You can still see the lighter areas in the pic (luckily not so noticable in real life):





PLEASE can you advice me what I'm doing wrong. Is it an issue with using water based lacquer - should I switch to celluose stuff? The atomization seems fine - I don't know what's causing the patchy finish. Would the weather (very damp) make a difference. Would this be better with turbine setup or if I switched to cellulose lacquer like Chestnut's melamine? Or something else??

Is it my setup - can you get inconsistent results with a compressor setup like mine? (The compressor is sufficient for the guns I'm using mind).

Would I get better results with a turbine? I've ordered a Earlex one for Screwfix on the off chance ...

I was hoping to switch to an oil finish - but on a test piece of wood - it would look too different to the lacquer finish so think I'm stuck with lacquer .

Appreciate anyone's help - know quite a few spray here and get good results.

Any pro spray finishers near me that can help - I'd pay?

Cheers

Gidon


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## Philly (8 Dec 2009)

Gidon
My only thought is that its the water based lacquer - walnut really appreciates an oil based finish as it makes it look darker. I've used Chestnuts melamine lacquer (with cellulose sanding sealer underneath) and got better results spraying walnut.

A question - the job seems to have come out pretty nicely. Has the customer commented on the colour/look or is it something that is narking you personally?

Oh, and I find walnut tends to darken for a while after its finished, so may look better in a week or two.

Hope this helps,
Philly


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Thanks Philly - really appreciate the help.

I actually wish I'd gone for an oil finish - prefer the look and think would have been fine. But as said previously stuck with lacquer now.

I am the customer - perhaps that's the trouble! No it has come out ok in the end - the wax did a great job - rubbing out with wax and grey pads works a treat for every finish I've tried!

I might try celluose lacquer - was just a bit concerned about hazards of spraying it - I'm doing it a shed with the doors open.

What equipment you using? Have you found it makes a difference?

Cheers

Gidon


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## Philly (8 Dec 2009)

Gidon
Glad its come out alright - looks good in the photo's!
I use the Earlex HV5000, and I'm pretty happy with it. All I seem to spray is Melamine (and cellulose sanding sealer) and it is easy to work - you can pump on the layers and its simple to rub out to a great finish. Dries very quickly, too. And it has a very slight yellow tint which makes most woods look good. 
Only downside is the breathing bit - I now spray outside (but under cover) and that works well for me. And wear a good mask.

Cheers
Philly


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## lemonjeff (8 Dec 2009)

Gidon,
Water based spraying does not like cold temps, perhaps spraying in the shed with doors open might be your prob. I'm just about to start spraying in the workshop @ min 17C, plus the wood needs at the same temp.
Apart from that it's looking very professional.

BTW what are the pipe clamps you used on the glue up?

Jeff.


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Thanks Philly - actually that's what I've ordered from Screwfix - with 10% off it's only £150. I don't really have time to experiment at the moment so may just try the Melamine lacquer with the new spray gun - I don't actually think it's my equipment but there are too many variables with the compressor set up. 

Do you thin the Mel lac with the HV5000?

Jeff - when you say it doesn't like cold temps - what issues would you get if you do? Would it be what I'm experiencing? Yikes - minus 17C - in Clacton on Sea?!
Those pipe clamps are the ones Axminster do which come with pipes and Pony clamps - I love them - great value and very versatile. Need to get some more in fact ...

Cheers

Gidon


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## Philly (8 Dec 2009)

I thin it about 6:1, or so it will spray easily.
Have fun,
Philly


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## Oryxdesign (8 Dec 2009)

Hi, are you after a glossy or satin finish? If you want satin and can stand to scrape off the lacquer with a cabinet scraper I would give Osmo wax a whirl, looks great on walnut and you can fit it with a roller. If you a glossy finish I personally find something like Rustins Plastic Coating fine, to spray you have to thin it, the first coat will look awful but once you have sanded that and applyed another it'll be right. You can scotchbrite it off at the end and wax over the top if required.

Simon


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## lemonjeff (8 Dec 2009)

I get similar problems as you, uneven finish, I get it with lacquer and primers/undercoats.
I'm using an Apollo spraymate with the fine needle.

That would be Minimum 17C I spray at, at minus 17C I'd have to use Arctic white  

I also thin at the same ratio as Phil.

Jeff


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Philly thanks - just to check - 6 parts lacquer / 1 part thinner?

Thanks Simon. I don't really mind! I usually like a satin sheen look I guess. Can't face taking off the lacquer - and worried about going through the veneer - already sanded back once when I got the patchy streaky look! I could try the Osmo or Rustins on the remaining furniture - but doubt it'll match the lacquer finish if it's a penetrating finish . Can I ask what setup do you use for spraying?

Am I wasting time changing my spraying setup?

Cheers

Gidon


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Jeff - sorry posts crosses. Minimum 17C - that makes more sense !
That's great to know - I'm spraying at <10C - in an unheated shed with doors open - it was approaching <5C probably.
So Melamine lacquer doesn't have those problems?
Cheers
Gidon


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## wizer (8 Dec 2009)

I really don't think it will look obviously different to use osmo on the remaining items. Of course, you could try a test piece next to it to be sure. Using Osmo, you'll be able to close the doors and get the temps up a bit too.

Do you have any Osmo? I know your up against the clock but I might be able to do you a test board in walnut and post it to you?

If you stick with spraying then I think you have made the right decision with the Earlex. It gets good reviews and I don't think a compressor is every going to be as good as a dedicated turbine unit. Could you not spray on site?

I've tried water based finish on walnut and got a blue tinge to it. I'd only ever use it on light woods in the future, which I think looks good.


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## Philly (8 Dec 2009)

gidon":3s6etsyo said:


> Philly thanks - just to check - 6 parts lacquer / 1 part thinner?


Yup!
Phil


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Wizer - I've done a test piece with Liberon Finishing Oil and Ac Lacquer - and the difference is dramatic - I'm assuming it would be similiar with another oil like Osmo but of course don't know - no don't have any. Thank you for the offer - very good of you! Don't worry - I'm going to go with the lacquer - I'm going to try spraying the plinth now while the counter lippings dry with some Melamine Lacquer - so will report back! And I've ordered a load more and some sealer too. The Earlex gets good reports but really my current setup _should_ be better - we'll see - at least it reduces the variables somewhat! Thanks again though.

Philly off to try that now with my current setup!! Wish it would stop raining!!

Cheers

Gidon


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## Oryxdesign (8 Dec 2009)

I use the Fuji Q4, I've got the suction cup gun and the gravity feed one (which I prefer).

Simon


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

Thanks Simon.

Well tried spraying some of the Chestnut Melamine Lacquer - it's like night and day - it's much easier to spray and is going on really nicely with my current spray kit. I've not even thinned it. It's much much less viscous than the acrylic lacquer. Although even with my mask I am worried about what it's doing to my lungs

Cheers

Gidon


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## Philly (8 Dec 2009)

Its so good to use - and when you come to rub the finish out you'll find it a joy. Takes about five days to fully cure, so leave it a day or two before rubbing out.
As for the lungs, yeah, not good. A suitable mask and plenty of ventilation is the basic level - I quite fancy trying some kind of spray tent like Steve Maskery tried a while ago.
Enjoy,
Phil


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## gidon (8 Dec 2009)

I'll buff it out when I get it to my shop - may get a few dings along the way! A spray booth or tent would be nice - I agree - I saw one made using insulation sheets (kingspan stuff) - great idea - light and folds to not much. Not sure what sort of extraction fan you need though - must dig up the link ...

Thanks,

Gidon


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## Steve Maskery (9 Dec 2009)

I'd say that <10 was way too cold to spray anything, and that, plus the necessity for a still day, is the main reason that I've stopped spraying. I think 12C and low humidity is the bare minimum. 

Chestnut Melamine is an excellent product, and whilst it may appear expensive cf Morells, for example, its superior coverage makes it a cost effective solution. I thin it a little.

My bedroom furniture is sprayed with Chestnut Mel, apart from the cheval mirror which is Osmo. Fantastic stuff, highly recommended. No cleanup, no booth required, just rub it on and relax. There is a very slight difference in colour (maple and kevasingo) but no more than you would expect from the difference in ages of the pieces.

Chestnut have recently launched a similar product. I've tried a pre-production version of that and it, too, was excellent. I think that these hard wax oils are a godsend for us home woodies. The finish looks every bit as good a a sprayed finish (not the same, but every bit as good) and the operational downsides are virtually eliminated.

Cheers
Steve


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## RobertMP (9 Dec 2009)

Not sure I'd be looking at the spray equipment or the finish material to solve the patchy finish problem.

The marks appear to be in the sort of place where you would grab hold to pick the piece up. You don't use any hand creams or anything similar that could have got on the wood?

Tried wiping down with thinners or white spirit before spraying?

If it is surface contamination then changing the finish might help as they all react differently and oil based is usually more tolerant.

edit. 

Managed to miss page 2! Glad you are sorted.


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## gidon (9 Dec 2009)

Thanks Steve - would you say it's too cold for the Chestnut Melamine Lacquer too? What problems do you get with lower temperatures on the non- water-based stuff so I know what to look out for if the temperature gets lower? I'm spraying in the shed I built recently - so indoors - but no insulation or heating and have the door wide open. 

Bit puzzled why you're all thinning the Melamine Lacquer - it's much less viscous than the water based stuff? Is there another reason aside from the viscosity?

Will try Osmo or Chestnut equivalent at some stage but spraying is quick when it goes well!

Robert - hand cream! My wife saw that and laughed! But I do need to be careful with contaminants - thanks. Now sanding the shop counter and am also concerned that perhaps the patchy'ness may be due to heavy sanding on the delicate veneer?? Perhaps these bits don't take the lacquer so well?

Well even though I had success with the spray gun and compressor yesterday on the counter shelves my Earlex HV5000 arrived today and I gave it a go. Wish I'd gone this route in the first place - what a doddle! Very impressed so far. Got a perfect finish off the acrylic lacquer straight off - the controls are so straightforward compared to using a compressor. The _only_ negative I can see so far is the constant noise! But will give a further report when I do the big spray - a nice SATA RP gun could be for sale shortly!

Cheers

Gidon


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## Philly (10 Dec 2009)

Glad to hear you like the melamine lacquer - its a great product.
And also pleased you got on with the Earlex, a lot of machine for the price. And an silly person can use it - I'm living proof :lol: 
Cheers
Philly


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## Steve Maskery (10 Dec 2009)

Gidon
The problem with low temp and high humdity is that of "blooming". As the solvent evaporates its chills and any water in the atomised finish (now on the job) condenses and forms a white bloom, which is virtually impossible to get rid of.

You need warm and dry.

I'm glad you are getting good results, but rather surprised in this weather.
S


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## gidon (10 Dec 2009)

Thanks Steve - don't think that's what I was getting although reading up on it it does sound a worry. I've got to do a big piece today - so too early to say I'm getting good results yet!!

. Yes the Earlex has only really has one control other than fan shape (fluid control) - compared to the compressor / SATA gun which has at least 4 others! Plus length of hose, possible contamination in hose (water, oil), power of compressor, capacity of compressor ...

Cheers

Gidon


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