# Old Tool Renovation WIP



## Scouse (13 Jul 2011)

With reference to Jimi’s recent thread regarding his purchase of an infill plane in need of some work, it was noted that some old tools are worth restoring to working condition, for their historic as much as their financial value.

With that in mind I thought it might be an interesting diversion to revisit some of the old, very rusty stuff I have bought over the past year, chiefly from carboot sales, and have a look at them in working order.

Don’t get me wrong, there are no museum pieces or things of any beauty, and I’m partial to patina, so there has been little polishing. 

Everything, however, was originally a rusty pile, and has now been dismantled into component parts; de-rusted, cleaned, lubricated and put in place next to their working counterparts.

Nothing here has any value or significance in the history of tools, but I feel it would be a shame not to put back to work that which would otherwise be scrapped and lost forever. 

It’s worth noting that nothing has cost more than a fiver with the exception of the Union pillar drill and the 98 and 99 planes.
So, first an overview of the mess that constitutes the dirty bench, so called because it is dirty.

















These three pictures show a number of projects in various states of undress. The big drill was done a while back, but was seized and fit for nothing. Works well now. 2 old saws, one un-named one Tyzack, both old apparently, judging by the flat split nuts; I’ve not had the bottle to pull them apart yet. The 2 planes, a Stanley no4 type 13 from 1925-28 and a W.S. are both waiting to go into an electrolysis bath for de-rusting, which is my current (no pun intended!) pet project. There are also a couple of drills in pieces, a Millers Falls no1, and no120a breast drill, the frames of which are both also for the leccy bath. The stuff in the dog bowls is the cleaned small parts from the drills and the Stanley brace next to the lamp.






Three drills, all three Millers Falls; an early no5, a no2, and a no85 missing the handle. The no5 has just been cleaned and works fine, the no2 represents the good bits from two terribly rusty tools. The frame has been stripped and repainted, the handle was wrecked and had to be sanded and re varnished, hence the odd colour, the handle from the donor drill is now the crank handle for the Union. The no85 was not in great shape, it too has been stripped and put back together, but the handle disintegrated during the renovation, so I need to turn a new one when time allows.






More on the wall; a Leytool drill, which had been packed with grease so it would not turn, three wrenches (2 king Dick Abingdon, 1 Ford) and two braces, a Millers Falls no 22 and the smaller one by Thos. Wales and Son, about whom I can find no information.






Three saw sets, the Stanley 42X was in as new shape when I got it, so only needed oil. The Eclipses, both very dirty and one rusty are, despite their similar shapes very different. The one on the left is iron/steel and has a thin tooth pushy bit, the one on the right is brass with a much thicker thingy.






Next, a Stanley no4, another type 13 from ’25-’28, with a period Sweetheart blade. Cleaned, de rusted and had the sole flattened. Front knob has been replaced with one I turned from walnut I’ve kept the old one safe; it had split due to the absence of a reinforcing ring which was cast into the body from type 14 onwards. I might make a new handle too since the original still has the remnants of the decal.






A pair of side rebate planes, Stanley 98 and 99, de-rusted and left as original. The 98 is older by about 30 years. I would like to get a couple of replacement blades though.











Finally vices. The Record no6 and the tiny Woden X260 Titan were both rusty and seized, especially the Record which I had to heat to free. It’s a monster, maybe a bit too big for my needs, but never mind. I’d not seen a Titan before and was about to buy a Record Imp, but this was, in spite of its size more substantial. Below them is a Woden saw vice, rusted and covered in some sort of oil with the consistency of a really bad cold. It was mounted on a bit of ply, but I’ve got a bigger board for it, just need to put it on.

I hope this post hasn’t looked like a gloat; I intended it to act as a bit of inspiration, that even the most far gone tool may have a decent one underneath all the rust, and that with a bit of elbow grease it is possible to build a reasonable number of good tools for not much money.

I’ll treat this as a work in progress and add to it as I finish more stuff.

El.


----------



## jimi43 (13 Jul 2011)

Hi Scouse

I am really chuffed that my thread has stimulated your restoration interests...you are doing some sterling work there my friend...the No.4 looks to be of very good vintage and I bet...produces some fine shavings.

The Union drill made me smile...I have always wanted one of these...Heaven knows why but the mechanism fascinates me.

There was one at the bootfair this Saturday and I was that close to handing over my fiver (yes fiver!) when I noticed that the C shaped bracket that holds the giant wheel on was fractured at the top and halfway through the bottom where it joined the main casting. I haven't anything large enough to braze that size of material so I backed off....but it was superb in all other respects...original paint job...the works.

There are some interesting other technical bits on that "dirty" bench...please elaborate!

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Corset (13 Jul 2011)

That is some work that you have done there. Its good to see stuff restored to a new lease of life.
I have a woden saw vice like yours and find it pretty good.
I am interesed in your drill as am looking for a small drill press. Do they work well or are they a bit rubbish?
Owen


----------



## AndyT (13 Jul 2011)

I like this. I do think that the right thing to do with old rusty tools is to put them in working order. That doesn't have to mean polishing - it means putting them in the state that a careful owner would have kept them in. No rust, all moving parts moving freely, all cutting edges properly sharp.

Keep up the good work!


----------



## Scouse (13 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the positive comments.



AndyT":1kye8quo said:


> ...it means putting them in the state that a careful owner would have kept them in. No rust, all moving parts moving freely, all cutting edges properly sharp



Thanks Andy, that is exactly what I aim to do.



jimi43":1kye8quo said:


> There are some interesting other technical bits on that "dirty" bench...please elaborate!



Hi Jim, I've done a couple of exploded tool pictures, I hope these are the technical bits you mean!






This is the dismantled Millers Falls no1, I just need to de-rust the frame and she can go back together. This really was a mess, everything was rusted together, and it took a good deal of work just to get it apart, especially the springless chuck, which I nearly gave up on but felt it was really important to keep. Under all the cr*p though there was red paint!






This is a Stanley 10 inch brace, I'm going to put the chuck into an electrolysis bath, 'cos I figured out how to do it this very afternoon. \/ Again everything is done, just need to de-rust the frame. I can't get the last bit apart though, on the right of the photo, if anyone has any insider knowledge, I'd be grateful.






This is the Millers Falls 120A Breast drill, again all done apart from de-rusting the frame, breast plate and handle.

Everything is stripped down to it's bits and cleaned with de-greaser and a wire brush, takes ages, but worth it.

Also on the todo list is a pre Stanley North Brothers Yankee 130A which refuses to come apart, an Edwardian treadle dental engine I need a handpiece for, a Hobbies A1 treadle fretsaw which just needs a clean and new wooden arms, and my next big project






It's in pieces ready to be stripped, repainted and rebuilt on a treadle base.

Oh, and there's a car boot sale on on Saturday... :mrgreen: 

As for the drill Owen, it is really good, but you need patience, 'cos it is slow! Lovely bit of machinery though.

Cheers El.


----------



## Racers (13 Jul 2011)

Hi, Scouse

Some cracking work mate, shouldn't the Record vice be blue :wink: 

Pete


----------



## Scouse (13 Jul 2011)

Racers":3hmpn1gy said:


> shouldn't the Record vice be blue



I was going for mean and moody! 8)


----------



## markturner (13 Jul 2011)

I like that number 4 scouse, was that a bargain?

Cheers, mark


----------



## AndyT (13 Jul 2011)

Scouse, Toolbazaar in Scotland list replacement blades for the Stanley 98 and 99:

http://www.toolbazaar.co.uk/Spares.asp#fnrbfts98a99srp

£25 a pair or £14 each. Possibly more than the bootsale price for the planes?


----------



## jimi43 (13 Jul 2011)

WOW...where have you been hiding all this booty! (Car Booty! HA!)

I fancy one of them there Hobbies treadle things...you see them quite often..I think it was "the thing" in the 40s/50s.....stopped people fretting about the war (this could get bad you know!  )

They just look the biz and very controllable I would imagine?

More WIP please...me like...me like a LOT! =D> 

Jim


----------



## t8hants (13 Jul 2011)

I've got one of those little JCB bandsaws, bought about 30 years ago and it was thought ancient then, which is why I got it very cheap. Its had to live slightly outside in a temporary lean-to because the winter collapsed the shed it was living in, but a new workshop is underway, and it will be fettled back up to work again. Yours is only the 2nd I have ever seen.

Gareth


----------



## Scouse (14 Jul 2011)

Hi guys,

Wow! Thanks for the positive comments! Not had a chance to do any resto work today, had to earn a crust, but there is some electrolysis on the cards for tomorrow if the weather holds, so I'll put some piccies up of how that goes. Expect lots of sparks and a singed scouser...



markturner":1ni85zh6 said:


> I like that number 4 scouse, was that a bargain?



Hi Mark, which one? They were all a fiver, but for the finished one which was seven, IIRC. I thought it was funny to find two old Stanleys, not only at the car boot sale and weeks apart, but both the same type number. The W.S. is a bitsa plane, frog, blade cap iron and lever cap all WS, but on an English Stanley body.

Andy, thanks for the tip, I'll definitely get a pair of them, given they are a third of the price of the equivalent LN pair!



jimi43":1ni85zh6 said:


> I fancy one of them there Hobbies treadle things...you see them quite often..I think it was "the thing" in the 40s/50s.....stopped people fretting about the war (this could get bad you know!  )



I know... I'll pick up a few coats on Saturday morning. :mrgreen: 



jimi43":1ni85zh6 said:


> They just look the biz and very controllable I would imagine?



They do look cool, and older than they really are; some of the older ones have a nicer horse-shoe shaped frame. In use, I found it to be very easy to use, because the speed simply comes from how fast you pedal, infinitely variable. Mine was very rickety, however, and did need work, so it's in bits and in the queue.

So de-rusting tomorrow; it will be interesting to see how that Stanley lever cap comes out because it is just solid oxide!


----------



## Scouse (14 Jul 2011)

Scouse":1rawedut said:


> They do look cool, and older than they really are; some of the older ones have a nicer horse-shoe shaped frame. In use, I found it to be very easy to use, because the speed simply comes from how fast you pedal, infinitely variable. Mine was very rickety, however, and did need work, so it's in bits and in the queue.



Here's the queue I mentioned, or at least part of it, all dismantled and awaiting a clean...






At the back is a Singer treadle sewing machine base, which will form the base of the bandsaw. I am, of course, assuming that it will carry enough inertia to turn the saw, but it will be fun finding out. In the middle is the Hobbies fretsaw and in the foreground is the dental engine, to be used for a bit of inlay work, complete, but missing a handpiece.

Avoiding electrically powered woodwork is hard work!


----------



## Vann (15 Jul 2011)

Scouse":22jw51us said:


> The W.S. is a bitsa plane, frog, blade cap iron and lever cap all WS, but on an English Stanley body.


A-ha, that explains the odd (for a WS) body shape of yours.
My own WS No.4 came without irons or lever cap. It's shown below with Stanley irons and a Rapier lever-cap, and the depth adjuster wheel is also off a Rapier. 



However I've since obtained an early(?) WS lever cap with some other bits and pieces.




Cheers, Vann.


----------



## Scouse (15 Jul 2011)

Right then. Electrolysis day 1.

So I basically followed the instructions given here 

electrolytic-derusting-my-experience-wip-t17388.html

except that instead of threaded bar I used an old plane iron and a Disston saw plate that I cut in two. Don't shout at me, it was Canadian and bent, so it's ok.

I took one of these






and connected it to one of these






I added soda crystals to some water and plopped the Stanly lever cap into the mixture, thus






I have to say it felt a bit weird dropping a piece of raw steel that I wanted to keep into a bucket of water, as if little voices in my head were saying 'DON'T DO IT!'. But I hear those voices all of the time and I _usually_ ignore them, so I did today too.

I switched on the transformer and little bubbles of hydrogen immediately began to appear all over the piece. This is what I had after an hour.






A nice brown scum had settled on the surface. It was similar in appearance to what some people might find themselves having to contend with in the morning following a particularly disagreeable curry. Yum. It didn't smell, but i expect that the hydrogen would have had a similar explosive effect given half a chance.

The result of four hours in the bucket, however, was much more socially acceptable, from this






to this






So now it has worked, there is a production line of bits waiting to be dunked.

To be honest, I know there are a few different methods of rust removal, but I can't recommend this highly enough, A quick wipe over with camellia oil to prevent secondary oxidisation, and Robert is your mothers brother.

Vann, that's a lovely little collection. I have taken a shine to the WS lever cap, old and new; shame so little is written about the company, apart from the Woden, then Record take overs.

Fingers crossed for a dry morning tomorrow too... [-o<


----------



## Vann (21 Jul 2011)

jimi43":36nlp1er said:


> The Union drill made me smile...I have always wanted one of these...Heaven knows why but the mechanism fascinates me.


I too have been keen to get my hands on something similar. There was a Union drill going about a year back, but too far from home and too heavy to freight cheaply (and it has so be cheap 'cause surely this is just another fad...  ).

Anyway, there's a Silver Manufacturing Co. (Ohio) No.22 going cheaply (so far) and near to home (well, 1.5 hours drive away). 


I know it looks grotty, but at the current asking price (and due to strained tool budgets) I'm considering it seriously.

Does anybody know anything about these? I tried google but only turned up a single image and no description.

Cheers, Vann.


----------



## Scouse (21 Jul 2011)

Hi Vann, 

If it's not too much money I wouldn't be able to help myself! I have found a couple of links to Silver Manufacturing Co. drills, mostly ones that have been restored

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/de ... =751&tab=4

I know these next two are not the same model, they are by the same manufacturer and similar in design

http://www.iforgeiron.com/gallery/image ... ost-drill/

https://picasaweb.google.com/1159867987 ... 2948602450

It is a nice looking drill, and being a post drill, it is more practical than the Union style in some ways, ie. leaving bench space uncluttered. In any case it would be a relatively fast and satisfying project!

El.


----------



## Vann (21 Jul 2011)

Hi scouse.

The _vintagemachinery.org _link has the one photo I found.

At the current price I certainly won't be able to help myself either, and will become the new owner, however the auction still has 6 days to run, so we'll see...

I wonder if it has auto-feed?

Cheers, Vann.


----------



## jimi43 (21 Jul 2011)

For certain jobs...the slow control speed and torque make these ideal.

However...the sheer size of the thing means that most people, unless they have the space, aren't interested so you have a good chance Vann my friend! 

I must say...I do love this old machinery...I started up the huge belt sander the other day and it runs beautifully after even 80 years...with a little tickling of the adjuster...






...but even though I am a great lover of behemoth vintage machines and even though I have specific requirement for this one...I am questioning the space that it requires!

Anyway...sorry for the hijack! Back to normal programming! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## Scouse (22 Jul 2011)

jimi43":152qhgr2 said:


> Anyway...sorry for the hijack! Back to normal programming! :mrgreen:



Feel free to hijack away Jim, you always have something interesting to look at and the photo's are always spot on, although naming your planes does make me wonder if you are playing with a full deck!!! :lol: :mrgreen: 

Anyway, Trevor the Sheep, pictured here admiring a dismantled hand plane, said that it was about time I did a quick update on the old tools.






Really there has been little to see. I have been busy dipping stuff in electric water and have, up to now, done the parts of the 120A drill, the small Millers Falls, bits of a Stanley brace and the Stanley no4. To prevent secondary rust from forming, however, I have soaked them in camellia oil and left them wrapped in similarly moist paper for a day or two, so this is all there is to see at present






The WS is ready for dipping now though. It's not in as bad a shape as I thought initially






One of the interesting side effects of the electrolysis is the paint removal. On the no4 body I dipped a few days ago, the overcoat of paint came away to reveal the original japanning. It can't really be seen in a photo, but the patent date is very much sharper. Here's a before






and after, as I said, not very clear in pictures, but noticeable in the flesh






This has had the effect of leaving an amount of uncovered iron on the body, which I'm not sure what to do with. I could strip the casting and repaint, but it looks kinda cool as it is. What would you do? Trevor said I should paint it yellow with pictures of Justin Bieber on the sides, for what it's worth. I'm not sure sheep are the wisest council in these matters.

I'll put up more stuff over the weekend as I begin to re-assemble the hundreds of parts lying about at the moment... and the weather looks good for the morning... :mrgreen: 

El. and Trevor...


----------



## AndyT (22 Jul 2011)

> This has had the effect of leaving an amount of uncovered iron on the body, which I'm not sure what to do with. I could strip the casting and repaint, but it looks kinda cool as it is. What would you do?



I'd leave it just as it is. 

You're doing a great job there, but there really is no need to get hung up on making all the metal look shiny or japanned. Good cast iron can take on a sort of patina - call it benign rust if you like - which is very stable. Worlds away from the sort of flaky rusting that takes the strength away from steel. You sometimes see it on really well-used railings or handrails,* out of doors, so maybe it has something to do with the effect of thousands of sweaty hands. 
Whatever it is, it's a stable surface, and I think the odd bits poking through the japanning will soon acquire it.



* Yes I know I'm muddling up cast iron and wrought iron here - and probably galvanised steel as well - I'm just hoping you know what I mean.


----------



## Vann (29 Jul 2011)

Vann":xttm9xml said:


> ...there's a Silver Manufacturing Co. (Ohio) No.22 going cheaply (so far)...


Damn, I missed out. Someone trumped me by $1 at the last minute, while I was at work  (no access to certain sites at work :evil: )

Cheers, Vann.


----------



## Scouse (29 Jul 2011)

That's a shame, would have made a good project. I found one on ebay over here after seeing the one you were looking at, but it had a ridiculously high starting bid.


----------



## Scouse (31 Jul 2011)

I haven't been keeping on top of this thread as I had intended due to a few deadlines coming thick and fast over the past week, so I thought I should just do a quick update. 

The Stanley no4 has been de-rusted and reassembled with mixed results;






A closer look reveals a small problem, which only came to light once the rust and heavy paint had been removed






A crack right through the side from the seat to the edge. It seems to work ok, but I think I will consign this one to a dignified retirement on a shelf. Shame, but never mind.

I've also reassembled the Millers Falls 120A breast drill, but there are a few teeth missing on the small ring of the two speed main drive gear, which didn't seem to be a problem, but do catch a bit...more on this later though.

Other than that, I just have a list of jobs for this week, including putting the WS no4 in the electrolysis along with a few other bits.

The last two car boot weekends have been an interesting mix of the usual basket cases though!

A Millers Falls 120B fell into my hand for £2, which I think I will use to make one good drill out of two rough ones.






Apparently it's the same drill as the 120A, but with an unexplained name change. It has a few bent parts though, but will make a good donor for the other.

I saw this Acorn no5 and I don't know what possessed me, but I parted with £4 and after a clean up it's not too bad. To be honest, as I walked away and I began to wonder what I'd done, I was just thinking of using it as a big bit of sacrificial iron, because I remember reading they were not very good/fairly crude, but the wife came over all sentimental, so I gave it a clean and oil. I may camber the blade and use it as a scrub cleaner-upper before turning to something a bit better for squaring stock. 






Next, a bag of bits yielded a Woden no4, sadly on returning home it became apparent that the plane had been dropped, with a chunk missing and a bent blade explaining the £3 price, good for spare bits though.






An I Sorby gouge which looks like it's spent some time in citric acid came next, along with a selection of brace bits. The gouge was black before a rub with a brass brush and the picture shows the tidemark on the handle where it was dipped up to! The bloke on the stall did mention that this was his favoured method of rust removal.











Then the wife saw this, "Oh look at him, isn't he sooooo cute..." she said. It is British made (no name though) and works ok, but next to a Record No6 vice, it does seem a little on the small side; that's not perspective, they are a couple of inches apart! I suppose he is cute though...now she's got me at it!






This was her idea too, seems to think that a 4 foot, 2 man logging saw will look good hanging on the wall of the stairs. I told my daughter it was for cutting up the bodies of her boyfriends if I didn't like them. She wasn't impressed.






These two saws are bent and kinked, so I'm going to use them as sacrificial metal when I set up a long trough electrolysis affair to de-rust a couple of old saws that I don't fancy going at with white spirit and fine wet-and-dry. That is when I get up the bottle to undo the split nuts holding the handles on for the last hundred or more years!






But the best find was this, a leather cased 66 foot tape measure. Feet and inches on one side, links and poles on the other! It's in really good condition, just a few recent looking marks, but it was buried under a load of tools thrown onto the grass. It was a house clearance stall, everything for a pound.






It appears to be by J Rabone, but the only marks on it are 'Hockley Abbey, England" with the Rabone 3 triangles trademark. No mention of Rabone on either the case or the tape. I guess this would make it earlier rather than later, but I've no idea of date. Other ones I've seen have all had either Rabone or Chesterman mentioned by name on the case, and the tape typeface does look like a very old fashioned font. Lovely brass fittings and an over-engineered crank. Lovely old thing.

Right then, back to the de-rusting.

El.


----------



## AndyT (31 Jul 2011)

Never mind the nice haul, there's a far more important gloat buried in that posting - your wife encourages you to buy old tool stuff!


----------



## DTR (31 Jul 2011)

Your wife sounds like mine Scouse :lol:


----------



## jimi43 (31 Jul 2011)

Scouse":2quesggo said:


> .......
> 
> Then the wife saw this, "Oh look at him, isn't he sooooo cute..." she said. It is British made (no name though) and works ok, but next to a Record No6 vice, it does seem a little on the small side; that's not perspective, they are a couple of inches apart! I suppose he is cute though...now she's got me at it!



Hey Scouse!

You went totally mad today didn't you! Brilliant!

But that comment above and that picture reminded me of my haul on May 30th....






Little brother? :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------

