# New lathe and power problems



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

Hi there.

I took delivery of my new mini lathe today (Axminster AWVSL) and I've set it up in my cellar. 5 minutes into trying it out, the power trips to all the sockets in the house. I reset the breaker and try again. Another few minutes and the power cuts again. This goes on for a few more times before I start getting fed up with it.

So - what's going on, and what can I do about it? My beloved might get a tad peeved at me if the TV keeps going off while she's knitting.

A major rewire isn't really an option.

On a side note, laurel (the only wood I have to hand at the moment) seems to smell of marzipan. Is this normal?

Cheers,

Sam.


----------



## skeetoids (29 Sep 2010)

Hi,

It sounds to me like the power consumption of your lathe is greater than the supply!

Check to see how much power it takes to run your lathe and ensure you have it plugged into an appropriate socket with enough power.

I can't offer anything further as you don't explain how your electrics are set up.

Cheers,

Lee.


----------



## CHJ (29 Sep 2010)

Sam, is it a modern RCB (Residual Curret breaker) that trips or a plain Circuit Breaker?

Or does your sytem have one of the older Earth Leackage Breakers?
Overhead or Older wiring perhaps.


----------



## wabbitpoo (29 Sep 2010)

Laurel has cyanide in it, IIRC. This smells of almonds. So does marzipan. Mystery solved.

Unless I am wrong.


----------



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

It's a modern RCD, but it supplies all the wall sockets in the house.

I've got an extension with an RCD breaker built in, and a power meter, so I'm going to stick them both in and hope.

I've also been informed by the beloved that the smell of marzipan from the laurel is due to the cyanide compounds in it. Nice.

I'll let you know how I get on.


----------



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

No joy.

The moment I turn the lathe on, the power trips now. I suspect that the extra load from the beloved being home is too much for it now.


----------



## Dalboy (29 Sep 2010)

What speed are you set at How about starting with the speed set low and increase. Not sure but worth a try


----------



## paulm (29 Sep 2010)

Don't know about the electrics aspect, but as others have said laurel, and particularly camphor laurel I believe, has high levels of cyanide which you can smell when working it. 

I shredded a pile of branches from it last year and even in the open air had to take breaks every couple of minutes as the smell was overpowering and made me choke and eyes water. Can't imagine it's very good for you !

Cheers, Paul


----------



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

Speed is set to minimum. 

Here are a couple of pictures of the fusebox for those who know their electrical bottom from their elbow.


----------



## CHJ (29 Sep 2010)

samharber":1a0c8diw said:


> No joy.
> 
> The moment I turn the lathe on, the power trips now. I suspect that the extra load from the beloved being home is too much for it now.



There is no way and extra 375W should trip your main RCD, It takes you Toaster and Oven (assuming it's electric) doesn't it?

What else do you have in the cellar that works correctly using the same sockets,

If you run the machine off one of the sockets in the main living area does the same thing happen? 

If yes, the lathe has a fault. 

If no then I would get a qualified electrician to check your cellar wiring.


----------



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

Right - I've tried it plugged into the other side of the cellar, exactly the same thing happens.

Plugged it in upstairs (in the kitchen) and the only thing that tripped was the in-line RCD on the extension.

Both times there was no load on the lathe.

Make of that what you will.


----------



## CHJ (29 Sep 2010)

Contact your lathe supplier and let them sort it, it would appear that there is a serious fault with the machine electrics.


----------



## samharber (29 Sep 2010)

Right - have emailed Axminster.

Cheers.


----------



## guyandzoe (29 Sep 2010)

For what its worth... When my VB was delivered I was told that it might trip the leccie because the type of variable speed /computer thingy has a small earth leakage to operate correctly. This might trip the circuit. If that happened i was told, and confirmed with electrician, that one can simply swap the breaker to an alternative type which is less sensitive (but perfectly safe) and meant to deal with type of condition.

Does my memory serve me it is a 'c' (or somesuch) breaker that you need.

Does it trip the house from every socket?


----------



## Turn It In (29 Sep 2010)

Hi Sam,
The problem you are suffering is almost certainly high earth leakage current due to a sigle to three phase inverter that allows you to vary the speed of the motor. Some inverters are worse than others but in the data sheets the manufacturers all recomend that they are not run off an RCD protected circuit. I have no problems with the one on the Vicmark lathe but one of the engineering lathes has to have a non earth leakage protected circuit as it trips the ring main nearly every time.
There could be a problem with the lathe and you have certainly done the right thing contacting Axminster.
Hope this helps,
Regards,
Ian


----------



## CHJ (29 Sep 2010)

Turn It In":2mplhjff said:


> The problem you are suffering is almost certainly high earth leakage current due to a sigle to three phase inverter that allows you to vary the speed of the motor.



375W(1/2hp) DC permanent magnet motor, 

Don't think an electronically controlled motor drive board should be passing enough current down an earth lead to cause a current imbalance sufficient to trip the extension lead RCD unless it has a faulty condenser or two.


----------



## Turn It In (29 Sep 2010)

Hi Chas, 
I would be inclined to agree with you except that the variable power supply will be a form of switched mode supply and like computer supplies notorious for earth leakage current. 
Some electrical testing is certainly called for to resolve this problem. 
Regards Ian.


----------



## big soft moose (30 Sep 2010)

Turn It In":52b0du6c said:


> Hi Sam,
> The problem you are suffering is almost certainly high earth leakage current due to a sigle to three phase inverter that allows you to vary the speed of the motor.



afaik the AVSL doesnt have a 1 to 3 bphase converter for variable speed - IRRC it is just a 375W single phase motor, and I have the big brother with a 2hp DC motor and that doesnt trip any breakers in my gaff


----------



## samharber (30 Sep 2010)

I've had a reply back from Axminster, and they're going to send me a new electronics box for the lathe. They've offered to replace the whole thing, but the idea of trying to get the lathe back out of the cellar fills me with horror.

I've also got a sparky coming around at the weekend to quote for putting the cellar on its own circuit breaker, as this can't be a bad plan.

Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## rogerwaters (30 Jul 2012)

I also have problems with an Axminster lathe causing trip problems.
Axminster delivered a new one but this has same problem.
May alter config in disrtibution box and move lathe supply to non RCD side ?

Roger Waters Oxford


----------



## Alli (31 Jul 2012)

Don’t know if it helps to understand the difference of a MCB to a RCD, here’s my take-

A Circuit breaker (CB) or miniature circuit breaker (MCB) is the fuse of the system and is looking for overloads i.e. too much current being drawn down the line/live conductor. The main function of the MCB is too protect the cable it is serving; if a cable draws more current than it is rated for, it will overheat and catching fire is a real possibility.

One solution for a MCB tripping is to change it for a C curve, this allows a certain amount of surge current above the rating of the circuit breaker for a small period of time. This is helpful when you just have problem with high starting currents of machines. To note if you change to a C curve CB the maximum allowable Zs (earth fault loop impedance path) is reduced, which mean cable runs/length for a given C.S.A of cable are reduced, you are definitely into electrician’s territory of testing to make sure it is safe.

A Residual Current Device (RCD) is a device which looks at the current following in the line/live and the neutral conductors, this should be equal. Most final circuit RCD’s are rated at 30mA which means this amount that can flow to earth (and by earth, this can be the earth in the cable, or you holding onto the live conductor and touching the floor!!!) before operating the RCD, and the RCD operates because it sees the current is missing. The reason for 30mA is that this value is considered the safe amount of current that a human body can handle without any damage. 

Certain machines leak a little current to earth, computers are a known culprit, they can leak up to 5mA. In a large household where there is 3 computers, washing machine, kettle, fridge etc all on at the same time the combined earth leakage can be quite high, so one more machine could be too much and cause nuisance tripping. In this case there is no problem with any of the equipment it is just a combined earth leakage that is a problem. This is where 17th edition boards are good as they have two RCD’s and the house circuits are split up to try and help avoid this problem. You could also put every circuit onto its own RCD (known as a RCBO) but this comes with a big pricetag for the RCBO.

Some RCD’s even though rated for 30mA actually operate at lower value, testing will show any problems.

If you have a socket that isn’t RCD protected (sometimes the freezer isn’t) then try the machine on that socket to see if the machine operates, if it does then the earth can be metered and the value can be measured. If it is high then you could contact the manufacturers and get their opinion. You could move the lathe onto a non-RCD circuit but this just disguises the problem rather than solving it.

I hope I haven’t rambled on to much and it is of some help.

Cheers 
David


----------



## jurriaan (1 Aug 2012)

Since the lathe specifications read

Powerful 375W(1/2hp) DC permanent magnet motor

I doubt there's a three phase VFD in there somewhere. I'd go so far as to say
that the reason there's a DC motor in there is to skip the expensive VFD and
use a simpler/cheaper variable speed solution. If the lathe trips the main breaker,
it's either back to the seller with the lathe or invite a good electrician, IMHO.


----------



## Lightweeder (4 Aug 2012)

wabbitpoo":398xen4u said:


> Laurel has cyanide in it, IIRC. This smells of almonds. So does marzipan. Mystery solved.
> 
> Unless I am wrong.


OMG! Massive dust extraction then :shock:


----------

