# Vices - Fitting a Record Bench Vice



## paulm

Here's some pics of fitting the second vice as I forgot to take any of the first  







This is the secondhand vice, bit scruffy to start with but nothing a wirebrush and airline couldn't clean up. Took the opportunity to clean the thread as well and sprayed liberally with pfte spray so the action is nice and smooth. This one is a Record 52 1/2 quick release, a big heavy beast !






Next thing to do was make up an mdf template for the vice mounting holes and also with cut outs for the reinforcing ribs on the vice.

Used the template to cut and drill four more bits of mdf the same and glued them all together as a spacer block for under the bench so that the vice could be mounted with the top of the jaws about 1" below the top of the bench.

I cut the mdf blanks to size, then glued them together and then with the template on top drilled and made the cut outs all in one.

Found that four pieces of 15mm mdf gave me just the right overall thickness of 60mm for the spacer.






Then using the single most useful tip ever I used a stout piece of timber and held it vertically against the bench and marked the timber where I wanted the top of the vice jaw to be, about 1" below the bench top, then put the piece of timber in the vice with the jaws at the marked point and tightened it up. It's then really easy to position the vice in place against the bench with the piece of timber taking all the weight (which is pretty considerable !).

Having checked that the vice workings were going to clear the bench leg, I then used the template to mark the mounting holes and drilled the bench, using a large spade bit to a depth of around 5mm so that the coach bolt heads would be below the surface of the bench, and then drilled through the bottom of the large holes with a smaller spade bit. I was using 10mm by 130mm bolts so made the holes 12mm to make sure there was a bit of adjustment for lining everything up. Would have used 12mm bolts if I could have found any but had to take what I could get at B&Q as I didn't want to wait for a Screwfix delivery !






Then positioned the spacer block on the vice and moved the whole thing into place, still taking all the weight with the piece of timber in the vice, dropped the bolts through and tightened them all up, making sure the back of the vice jaw was tight against the edge of the bench. Could have taken a rebate out of the front edge of the bench so that the front face of the back jaw was flush, but decided to do it this way instead.






Picture of the vice and spacer block from underneath in case I haven't explained very well.






Then used a piece of my reclaimed oak flooring to edge the bench top, cutting out a suitable recess for the rear vice jaw.

Took the time to give the front face of the vice a couple of coats of blue hammerite paint to smarten it up.






Then fitted another piece of oak flooring over the front of the first piece and covering the exposed rear vice jaw. Unfortunately the vice jaw protruded a couple of mill in front of the rebated piece of oak so on the second piece I had to skim a shallow recess on the back to compensate and allow it to sit flush.






Then I made up a front jaw facing by laminating three pieces of oak flooring, cutting a recess first in the back piece so that it would sit over the front vice jaw. Cut off the corners on the tablesaw and drilled some benchdog holes.











Mounted the jaw facing on to the front jaw, fastened with a couple of stout coach screws through the front as I couldn't find any bolts to match the threaded holes ( sorry Paul C !).

Planed the bench lipping and top of the vice jaw flush and a couple of coats of Danish to seal the oak.
















Also fitted a new front apron having removed the original to make fitting the vice easier.

Just need to make up some new drawer units sometime to sit underneath the bench and give it some weight.

Hope this helps someone else understand better how to go about fitting a bench vice.

Whether the new vices willl help me cut better dovetails remains to be seen though  :lol: 

Cheers, Paul.


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## OPJ

That's a very handy guide, chisel, thanks for sharing.  I'm sure I'll find it useful again when I eventually get around to building myself a new bench. :wink: 

Looking at where your bench is situated in the corner of your workshop, is it not difficult working from the vice at the front of your bench? Or are you left-handed? It looks a bit too close to the corner, that's all.


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## Gill

As luck would have it, I've got a Record bench vice awaiting fitting  . Thanks for the post.

Gill


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## paulm

OPJ":3740og4t said:


> Looking at where your bench is situated in the corner of your workshop, is it not difficult working from the vice at the front of your bench? Or are you left-handed? It looks a bit too close to the corner, that's all.



Ideally I wouldn't have the bench towards the corner Olly, but it's okay for most things in practice, and I can't even begin to imagine how I would go about re-organising everything to better positions, it would be like one of those chinese puzzles I think where I'd have something spare left over at the end ! :lol: 

The posting was originally quite a while ago so since then I've added a couple of drawer units (good old mdf with full extension slides) which adds some more mass, and drilled the front apron and right front leg to take a dowel support or veritas benchfast thing, so reasonably flexible and practical.

The top and the vice jaws have round dog holes too for the homemade planing stops/dogs and the veritas benchpups and holdfasts.

A modest affair in woodworking terms but does the business alright.

Cheers, Paul


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## cambournepete

Gill":yqhtzb32 said:


> As luck would have it, I've got a Record bench vice awaiting fitting  . Thanks for the post.Gill


I second that, twice.
I have 2 record vices to fit (52.5ED, <£40 the pair, inc free collapsing bench).


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## dr.nick

thanks for the post. I was trying to figure out how these get attached. I will give it a shot. I can't wait to get one of these on my bench


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## John Brown

cambournepete":2s3egbrd said:


> Gill":2s3egbrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> As luck would have it, I've got a Record bench vice awaiting fitting  . Thanks for the post.Gill
> 
> 
> 
> I second that, twice.
> I have 2 record vices to fit (52.5ED, <£40 the pair, inc free collapsing bench).
Click to expand...


Me too. £40 the pair. Thanks for the guide.


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## paulm

You're welcome guys 

Cheers, Paul


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## PsyMan

I have just fitted one of these along with another smaller record one with the rectangle bench dog (£30 for the pair at my local tat shop), I only wish I had read this guide before I started as it took me a long time with a lot of head scratching and seemed considerably harder than you made it look. The tip with the length of timber clamped in to the vice would have been invaluable. Great guide and now bookmarked for the future. Cheers =D>


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## SammyQ

Paulm? That's 'zactly how I did mine. One question? My Record 52 (or 53?) has sloped faces to pinch together at the top. One Murricane author, Tom Begnal, advised body filler between the bench-side wood and the metal jaw to bring the vice face parallel and plumb when lined with wood. I just winged it on the bench side, there's a cavity in there I guess, but I did adjust the recess for the moving face by shims to make a solid fit of wood on metal. What - if anything - did you do? Or, are you happy with sloping faces? 

Sam


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## Paul Chapman

SammyQ":22abymqg said:


> One question? My Record 52 (or 53?) has sloped faces to pinch together at the top.



They are deliberately designed that way so that they grip the work better. Don't try to make the faces parallel.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## paulm

Yep, as Paul C said 

Cheers, Paul


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## toolsntat

Just a thought for you, where the packers now form a sort of "tower" I would have made them oversize to give increased vice to bench surface area stability :idea: 
As stated earlier that pinch in the jaws is essential and can be reproduced with tapered jaws if the slides have worn too much.

Cheers
Andy


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## SammyQ

Thanks, Pauls M and C; just did a bit of research and both Record and Paramo did indeed deliberately build in a slope to the vice faces. Rhetorically speaking, I wonder where the American fashion of parallel vice cheeks came from? But then we are talking about the race who shunned riving knives until just a short time ago...AND they use long fences, extending past the saw blade....


Sam


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## boybaker

Hi Guys, I came across this site while googling "vice fitting", and I am so glad that I did! It is clearly a friendly, helpful and welcoming site which I shall enjoy belonging to.
I recently picked up a Record 52 1/2 vice locally from fleabay for £14.00. and the other contributors are right! It is a monstrous lump which would have been a nightmare for me to fit, had it not been for Paul M's wonderful tip about using a stout length of timber to support the vice while fitting! Many thanks, Paul!

Cheers

Colin


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## paulm

You're welcome Colin 

To be honest though I got the tip from someone else so just passed it on, glad you found it helpful !

And welcome to the forum of course 

Cheers, Paul


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## JJ1

I can see this post coming in very handy in the near future.
Many thanks for sharing.


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## Dangermouse

As I am building a bench, I just tipped the bench top over to fit my Parkinson Perfect no15. but the tip about holding the vice up on a plank is welcome for next time on a built bench.


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## PalletPaul

Bought one of the toolstation vices for my bench lasted a few weeks and cost a fair bit for what I got, not long after up early on a Sunday took a trip to a car boot sale and got myself a record vice for £4, don't know why I didn't think of looking here first... Shall be from now on though a second vice wouldn't hurt. 

Got home and fitted same way as you have only difference being I just bodged my spacer from pallet wood, not had any issues and the vice after cleaning thread every now and then works great.


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## paulm

Good to hear you're all sorted Paul, a real bargain too at £4 !!! 

Cheers, Paul


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## rspsteve

My 52 1/2 is winging its way to me perfect timing for the fitting guide ..thanks PaulM.

Not even built a bench yet...lol

Steve


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## John15

Hi Paul,
I've only just seen this post - not sure how I missed it. You have inspired me to try and fix an old Record vice to the end of my bench as you have done. However the bench sub-frame plus top depth amounts to 145mm and the sub-frame is only 75mm from the end of the top so it may not be possible. I will be checking it later.
Many thanks for the inspiration,
John


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## DannyEssex

Thanks for this Paul, perfect for me ATM,

I originally bodged the fitting of my 52 1/2 and today set about fitting it properly. My arms are killing me from trying to hold the vice in position, and the tip about holding it in place with a length of wood is brilliant. 

Cheers mate (hammer)


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## paulm

Glad it helped Danny, picked up the idea somewhere else myself, simple but works a treat 

Cheers, Paul


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## Benchwayze

Paul.. 
What shade of Hammerite did you use. It looks about right for my Paramo vice. (I take it you didn't use the 'crackle' finish Hammerite. 

Cheers 
John


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## Phil Pascoe

QD90 by Blackfriars is thought by many to be a better metal paint.


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## Benchwayze

I have to take your word for that Phil, but it's the shade I am after. The Paramo is a 'Cambridge Blue' if anything, as opposed to Record's Oxford Blue.

I found some that looks about right. I'll risk buying 1/2 litre. 


Thanks Phil.


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## paulm

Not sure John, I think the can is probably still in the workshop in a cupboard somewhere, (I don't throw much away !) so I'll have a look and let you know later.

Cheers, Paul


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## Benchwayze

Thanks Paul. No hurry of course. I haven't ordered the Blackfriars just yet. I am looking forward to getting my old vice back in commission though!


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## paulm

Hi John,

Just popped out the workshop to have a look and it's Hammerite Smooth of course, and it's Blue, no other fancy name for the colour or anything so I'm guessing they only do the one shade ?

Hope that helps.

Cheers, Paul


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## Benchwayze

paulm":1a13z5f3 said:


> Hi John,
> 
> Just popped out the workshop to have a look and it's Hammerite Smooth of course, and it's Blue, no other fancy name for the colour or anything so I'm guessing they only do the one shade ?
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Cheers, Paul



That was nice of you Paul, and I am obliged. Either/or then. It is not going onto metal that is to be exposed, so the least expensive will do. Three nice coats should do it, and barely touch the level of paint! It will see me out I reckon. 

Thanks again. 

John


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## sneggysteve

I think this thread will go on forever. Picked up a Record 52 last night and will be using the excellent guidance. Many thanks


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## cgarry

I know I am giving further life to an old thread, but since this great thread guided me through fitting a vice to my bench I thought this was a good place to ask a related question.

What is a good finish to use for the (oak in my case) vice jaws? The original post says Danish oil was used by I have read various reports of this remaining tacky for quite some time.

Cheers,
Chris


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## paulm

Hi Chris, danish oil is fine and won't stay sticky if you wipe off any surplus after ten minutes or so, it will dry hard in one to two days, maybe quicker if warm. It does make the jaws a little shiney/slippery though, so maybe just leave them untreated and see how you get on ?

Cheers, Paul


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## AndyT

cgarry":2sb2eb71 said:


> I know I am giving further life to an old thread, but since this great thread guided me through fitting a vice to my bench I thought this was a good place to ask a related question.
> 
> What is a good finish to use for the (oak in my case) vice jaws? The original post says Danish oil was used by I have read various reports of this remaining tacky for quite some time.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris



I'd say that there is no need for a finish at all.

If you must use something, just use whatever you are using on the rest of the bench. (I used boiled linseed oil as it's cheap and easy).

But Danish oil will only be tacky if it's applied wrong. The essentials are to mix it very thoroughly (beware of a near-solid layer at the bottom of an old tin), wipe it on, wait an hour, then *wipe off thoroughly*. If you leave a thick layer, just the upper surface cures, sealing in the rest underneath - hence the tackiness.


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## Paul Chapman

cgarry":2v5e9ka5 said:


> What is a good finish to use for the (oak in my case) vice jaws?



Best to use no finish at all but to line the wooden jaws with leather. This will provide excellent grip. A good source of suitable leather would be a chamois leather as sold by car accessory shops such as Halfords for washing cars. You could stick it down with contact adhesive.

Richard Maguire wrote a good piece about this in his blog http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=757

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## cgarry

Good to know that it is user error that causes Danish oil to go tacky, no need to avoid it in the future. I am going to go with leaving the jaws untreated for now, though I do like the idea of a chamois leather lining.

Thanks for your help guys.

Chris


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## DTR

Paul Chapman":k0ad194o said:


> cgarry":k0ad194o said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is a good finish to use for the (oak in my case) vice jaws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best to use no finish at all but to line the wooden jaws with leather. This will provide excellent grip. A good source of suitable leather would be a chamois leather as sold by car accessory shops such as Halfords for washing cars. You could stick it down with contact adhesive.
> 
> Richard Maguire wrote a good piece about this in his blog http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=757
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...


I did have much success with the chamois, it got torn to bits after not too long. I wonder whether thick, hard leather would be harder wearing?


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## Benchwayze

DTR":oon1sfk5 said:


> Paul Chapman":oon1sfk5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cgarry":oon1sfk5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is a good finish to use for the (oak in my case) vice jaws?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best to use no finish at all but to line the wooden jaws with leather. This will provide excellent grip. A good source of suitable leather would be a chamois leather as sold by car accessory shops such as Halfords for washing cars. You could stick it down with contact adhesive.
> 
> Richard Maguire wrote a good piece about this in his blog http://www.theenglishwoodworker.com/?p=757
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I did have much success with the chamois, it got torn to bits after not too long. I wonder whether thick, hard leather would be harder wearing?
Click to expand...


Yes it is Dave. Just find a 'cobbler' and buy some 'sole' leather. It was good enough for Krenov... etc... 

I used 1/4" Hardboard though, dimpled side outwards. But you can't get it no more! (AFAIK that is)


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## DTR

Benchwayze":2q24m9ja said:


> Yes it is Dave. Just find a 'cobbler' and buy some 'sole' leather. It was good enough for Krenov... etc...



A cobbler... of course! Thanks for the tip


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## Benchwayze

DTR":1ui4kafp said:


> Benchwayze":1ui4kafp said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is Dave. Just find a 'cobbler' and buy some 'sole' leather. It was good enough for Krenov... etc...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A cobbler... of course! Thanks for the tip
Click to expand...


My pleasure Dave. 

Good Luck with the search. Hope you don't expend too much shoe leather yourself! 8)


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## boomerang bender

Thanks paulm a really good set of instructions with excellent photos i have one to fit and will use your instructions i like the bit about laminating the jaws to give extra strength.
Cheers,
Boomerang Bender


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## paulm

You're welcome BB 

Just noticed the date of the original thread ! Ten years on and still in regular use, no changes or repairs needed, the bench even survived moving to a new workshop too and fits right in


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## TheCus

[ATTACH=full]75769[/ATTACH]

Just built a workbench and have bought a record 52 1/2 to fit as a front vise.

Unfortunately I am struggling to get my head round how to fit it .as my bench is a pretty different build type with an MDF work surface on top of the frame.

Any ideas v welcome


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## Benchwayze

Cus, 

Your benchtop doesn't look to be thick enough. Benches get a pounding and the thicker the top the more pounding they will take, the thickness being more able to absorb shock.

Is the frame beneath a box-frame construction,(A good plan) or is it just cross members? 

Nothing wrong with MDF for a top, but I would have gone to a timber yard that cuts sheet material for you, and had two sheets of 25mm MDF cut into 8 foot by 2 footers, and glued them together. Into a 4" thick top (Near enough) . You'd need help moving it round mind, but it would be heavy, rigid and would take the pounding. 

If you stick with what you have, you might need to use packing between the vice and the underside of the bench. In which case try to use hardwood and laminate it as necessary. Work out the dimensions from the vice and make the packing accordingly. 

At risk of starting a debate, I would fit the vice with wooden cheeks, arranged so the rear cheek is flush with the top surface of the bench. 


You could then fit the vice to the underside; either routing out a housing for it, or using packing pieces between the vice and the underside of the benchtop. 

To hold the vice in position when fixing through the front, just capture two 4 x 2s in the vice, so they rest on the floor, and keep the vice at the required height against the bench, while you secure it. 

HTH

John


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## AndyT

+1 to what John said.
Also, a glance at this old thread might help. I posted the instructions from Planecraft on fitting a 52 1/2, showing that it needs about 4" of wood above the bars, which you could build up locally or as wide as you like.

total-depth-clearance-required-for-bench-vise-t77275.html

You may need to alter your shelf, unless you are left handed and want the vice on the right.


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## Jacob

Even easier to fit if you just turn the bench upside down and prop it up on saw horses


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## ED65

Two other links that might be of some help:
Record's guide to vice mounting reproduced on the Woodcraft site, http://www2.woodcraft.com/pdf/77A01.pdf This is an excerpt from "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis which is recommended reading (although IMO Lon Schleining's book on the subject should be prioritised).
Faithfull's guide to mounting a quick-release vice, https://www.faithfulltools.com/support/ ... h_vice.pdf

In terms of what way to mount your vice, I used to be a fan of the idea of mounting a vice such that the rear was flush with the apron/front edge of the worktop, apart from anything I thought it just looked lovely and neat! But Robert Wearing advises against it with examples of the many things you can do when the rear jaw is mounted proud, and Paul Sellers has demonstrated why this is advantageous too just in terms of handling longer stock during clamping and unclamping. Obviously not everyone agrees but the opinion of these two taken together forms a fairly weighty argument in favour of mounting the vice this way and not flush/embedded.


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## Phil Pascoe

Except you can pack the workpiece off if you choose to, but you can't go the other way.


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## Jacob

phil.p":3i1zjny5 said:


> Except you can pack the workpiece off if you choose to, but you can't go the other way.


Yes exactly.
If it's flush you can have the whole apron as the back jaw. Can be really useful.
Wearing is not too good on benches I notice (just bought several of his books). Gurus should be taken with a pinch of salt!
Ditto "The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis and the Chris Schwartz book - both completely omit any detail or reference to the standard perfect bench - they are just into fancy novelty benches for the gentleman amateur!
Sellers is good on benches.


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## scooby

I made a bench, copying Paul Sellers first bench build, back in 2012 (iirc). The thing is still rock solid. I also used his method of vice mounting. It is fine, but sometimes I wish I had flush mounted it so the apron was the rear jaw.


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## Bm101

Apologies if this has been covered before but this thread is current and relevant to me at the moment so rather than search for ages....
I'd like to fit a vice flush but before I go ahead and cut the recess I'd like to check I have it right.
My bench end. The oak end will be glued and dowelled. The vice is actually going to sit on the right side not the left that you can see prepped. Don't ask it just feels right to me. I cut the left one a long time ago because I read it in a book. Now I just do what feels right. 






Got to thinkin' .... The inside angle is 90 degrees. Ok.






But the outside angle is less. Now I know the jaw needs to pinch and was designed this way by Bears of Bigger Brain.







My thinking is I cut the void for the rear jaw equal depth to allow for the jaws to pinch so it closes inside the void to the wood and the outside jaw sits flat.
Ie: In line with the engineers square not the front face of the rear jaw in the pic above...
Regular uniform recess for the front jaw liner too.
Can any Bigger Boys confirm?

The link from Landis that Ed posted seems to confirm my thinking.
_'If you let the rear jaw of the vise into the front edge or underside
of the bench, allow a 1/16" gap above the casting. The spacer is
bound to compress when you attach the vise, and this gap will
close. Without the gap, the wood may buckle above the jaw and
have to be planed off._'

I'm not being daft am I? I just don't have any more oak. I need to get this one right.
Cheers as always,
Chris

Next Day EDIT: I _was_ being daft after all I think. I cut this rebate out the oak end today. Became obvious in practice that the Landis comment meant 1/16th gap above the top edge of the vice. In practice the plausibility of me matching that slope in the 3rd pic above accurately (and in one attempt) meant I just pretended it wasn't an issue and cut the rebate out to the same depth. :-# Don't tell anyone. Sure it will be fine. I can always plane the outer jaw cover a little skewed to counteract it if necessary. If I aim for dead square it should be perfect lol.




Just the outer jaw to cut then bolt it on. Jobsagoodun.

Still be interested to know the proper solution if anyone can enlighten me.
Cheers.


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## Benchwayze

I agree with Paul Sellers's bench as a good standard; I just don't like an apron on a bench. It reminds me of a workshop where I was once employed; I didn't much like the place; or was it the hidebound work's manager? :mrgreen: 

I do rather like this bench as a starter, designed with power tools in mind I think, but certainly within the scope of hand-tools.. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEvRoW8lY8

I would like a thicker top, and maybe at least, 100mm square legs. My local yard provides lovely, clean pressure treated timber in this size, so maybe I am lucky there. 

The top is made up to 100mm easily, by using another full sheet of plywood; for the sake of a few pounds more, it would be massive (NPI) improvement. 



Regards

John


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## scooby

Benchwayze":2sm4xhj8 said:


> I agree with Paul Sellers's bench as a good standard; I just don't like an apron on a bench. It reminds me of a workshop where I was once employed; I didn't much like the place; or was it the hidebound work's manager? :mrgreen:
> 
> I do rather like this bench as a starter, designed with power tools in mind I think, but certainly within the scope of hand-tools..
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEvRoW8lY8
> 
> I would like a thicker top, and maybe at least, 100mm square legs. My local yard provides lovely, clean pressure treated timber in this size, so maybe I am lucky there.
> 
> The top is made up to 100mm easily, by using another full sheet of plywood; for the sake of a few pounds more, it would be massive (NPI) improvement.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John



I agree with the apron comment. They make the bench rock solid but they are a pita when I want to cramp something to the top (a temporary stop, etc) and you have to use a massive f-cramp or sash cramp. Allows makes a raising bench dogs from underneath a pain (in the back). 
On the flip side, you dont need to have a thick top which is the reason I made the Sellers type. I had a few of 8"x2" left over from a job so used them for the top.

Next bench will definitely be a thicker top (multiple layers of mdf or 4"x2" or something like that) and no aprons.


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## boomdocker

Great guide - just got a Record 52 1/2 vise and was scratching my head as to how I could mount flush under the bench with those darn reinforcing ribs in the way....now I know


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## John Hall

Just a note, the threads in the Record vice jaws are all BSW, but UNC will fit..


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