# mirror finish



## bob321 (29 Jan 2009)

as said in the title how do i do it with dulux black gloss

thanks

bob321 8)


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## Woodfinish Man (30 Jan 2009)

Hi Bob

Is this for furniture?

If so, I think you'll struggle to achieve a mirror finish with that product. 

A better system would be to apply Precatalysed Lacquer. Sorry if you already know this but it needs to spray applied. Apply 1 coat of Black primer filler, sand back and spray on three coats (thinly) of black topcoat 90%. Probably worth thinning the lacquer by 10% with standard PC thinners.

Don't mean to scare you off but it's quite a skill, takes alot of patience and practice to achieve mirror finishes, especially in black.

If you have any other questions please just shout.

Ian


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## mailee (30 Jan 2009)

I will second Ian's comments Bob. I spray cars for a living and use a similar paint to the Cat/laquer mentioned but it does take a skill to apply it and de-nib and polish it. You may be better using black primer with Rustins plastic coat over it.


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## Derek Willis. (31 Jan 2009)

Ebonise it to make it black and finish it with Shellac in the French polish Manner, you will get the highest gloss you ever saw.
You could use Rustins, P/C. at least two coats, and then rub down according to instructions and burnish, this will give something of the effect you are looking for.

Derek.


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## BradNaylor (1 Feb 2009)

mailee":44zoy4c5 said:


> I will second Ian's comments Bob. I spray cars for a living and use a similar paint to the Cat/laquer mentioned but it does take a skill to apply it and de-nib and polish it. You may be better using black primer with Rustins plastic coat over it.



I've been experimenting using clear car lacquer over AC paint on MDF and then burnishing it to a high gloss. It works superbly. 

Since I mastered this technique however, no-one has asked for a gloss finish...

Dan


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## mailee (1 Feb 2009)

Dan Tovey":3cubhclx said:


> mailee":3cubhclx said:
> 
> 
> > I will second Ian's comments Bob. I spray cars for a living and use a similar paint to the Cat/laquer mentioned but it does take a skill to apply it and de-nib and polish it. You may be better using black primer with Rustins plastic coat over it.
> ...



It's sods law Dan. :lol:


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## GrahamRounce (29 Mar 2009)

"I've been experimenting using clear car lacquer over AC paint on MDF and then burnishing it to a high gloss. It works superbly. Since I mastered this technique however, no-one has asked for a gloss finish"

This is your lucky day, Dan!
I don't know about MDF (and what is AC?) but I do want a superb & hard-wearing finish - on pine, actually, as a test, but in the end on something more attractive and harder if available in 18x18"? I got some clear lacquer from Halfords, but it says allow two weeks before rubbing & polishing! Two weeks between coats is going to slow the project down rather.. I suppose I should use grain filler, too? Errr.. any kind in particular recommended?
Please would you consider writing a complete silly person's guide to what you achieved?
Graham


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## mailee (29 Mar 2009)

I am not too sure about Pine Graham, it is a softwood and has a lot of movement in it. You say you bought some clear laquer from Halfords, was this in an aerosol or by the litre unthinned? What type of Laquer is it, Nitrocellulose, Water or Acid cat? You can get a mirror like finish as Dan has stated on MDF or hardwood and even an acceptable finish on softwood but on softwood it may crack with movement. The wood must first be completely sealed to avoid the finish sinking in. As Dan has stated a good High build primer works for this. If the finish is just a clear coat to allow the wood to show through then I would recommend a Sanding sealer with a couple of thin coats applied by rag or brush after a stain has been applied. You will need to apply two or three good coats of clear laquer to allow you enough thickness for rubbing back and final polishing to acheive the mirror finish you desire. HTH. :wink:


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## Derek Willis. (29 Mar 2009)

Let me point you to Rustins Plastic Coating, this is a type of Melamine finish, it is virtually indestructible and can be buffed to a mirror like finish without losing the durability of it. I use it quite prolfically.
Derek.


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## GrahamRounce (29 Mar 2009)

"Nitrocellulose, Water or Acid cat?"
It says on the can (it's an aerosol): "Contains MIXTURE OF BENZOTRIAZOL, POLYOXYTHYLENES". Does that make it any clearer?!

It also says leave 15 mins between coats, but 2 weeks before using a rubbing compound. Is it the same with Rustins, Derek? And I guess you *did* leave it for that long?

So I sand the surface as well as possible (grades down to 1000?), then rub on the sanding sealer (is that what it's called? I'll Search for it), then.... will I need to sand again? Then spray several coats of lacquer/plastic coating, then wait two weeks...
...and after the 2 weeks (yes, you really are dealing with a finishing ignoramus here, maybe I didn't make that clear enough!) I would, what? Use 400, 600, 1000 papers (with woodblock backing to keep the surface flat)? Then steel wool? Then car body polish? (I have silver polish - would that do?)

Then sit back and admire it? That's the bit I like!

Thanks all, & sorry for being so abc-needy.
Graham


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## mailee (29 Mar 2009)

No problem with the questions Graham, they are not stupid questions don't worry. First of all sand the surface to around 320 grit and then stain if necessary. I use a cellulose sanding sealer at this stage and thin it 50/50 with cellulose thinner. Once it is dry which doesn't take long I give it a light sanding with 400. Put the first coats of primer or base coat on (Colour) lightly sanding in between coats once it is dry. Finish the Primer/colour coat by sanding with 600 wet n dry used damp with a little soap in the water to lubricate and stop the paper clogging. Dry completely and then apply the clear laquer coats. Give it two or three thick coats if spraying or just two coats if using a brush. If you have used AC laquer it will be dry enough to sand in a couple of hours and I beleive it is the same for the Rustins Plastic coat. If it is water based or air dry laquer then it should be left for a few days to cure. Once cured wet flat (sand) it all down with 800 or 1000 wet n dry again used with water and soap. I use a rubber block and draw it across the surface to dry the area and it will show if the panel is flat and free of imprefections. Once this process is done you can now polish the surface using a rubbing compound as used in the car body repair industry. Farecla rubbing compound is one of the readily available rubbing compunds. I would recommend using a machine polisher for this final process as it will take a long time by hand. Keep the polishing machine moving and do not leave it in one place or it will burn through the laquer coat. You can see from this process why you need a good build on the laquer coat so you do not go through it. I would not bother with your aerosol laquer from Halfords as it will be too thin to build any sort of coat on top of the colour for a good finish. I am not sure about the Rustins product but think you need to purchase their own rubbing compound for it, maybe Derek can shed some light on this? I hope this is informative for you and gives you an idea of what is required for this type of finish. :wink:


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## GrahamRounce (30 Mar 2009)

Hi again, and thanks a lot for the highly detailed reply - just the kind of thing I need at my current position on the learning curve!

The penny has finally dropped that both AC and Rustins PC are two-part.
From Axminster, at least, AC only comes 5lt at a time & needs spraying.
Rustins PC is £9.50 for 1/4 litre, a similar price, but it can be brushed on.
With either, is it not tricky mixing small amounts for each coat (18" dia table top)?
Halfords car acrylic is starting to look attractive, even if there is a two-week wait before being able to polish it... I wonder if Dan (The Alchemist) is looking at this thread, and might like to impart some lore?
Graham


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## Oryxdesign (30 Mar 2009)

Rustins PC is basically AC. Rustins rollers on really well. You can polish it with 3M finesse. Mailees reply is very good


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## GrahamRounce (30 Mar 2009)

Yes, Mailees' reply was good! Top helpfulness. My only experience with two-part is with casting resin, where you have to measure the hardener drop-by-drop & personally I waste as much as I use. But I'll stop being mean and give it a go!


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## Oryxdesign (30 Mar 2009)

If you apply it with a roller mix it very thin at least for the first coat, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results.


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## GrahamRounce (30 Mar 2009)

"Mix it thin" - is there a thinner you can get for it?


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## Oryxdesign (30 Mar 2009)

Yes there is a thinner, I'm not sure about the smaller sizes but if you buy 5L you get some with it, I do like it thin though and find that it's still not enough.


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## bob321 (30 Mar 2009)

hello 
is this ok http://www.ronseal.co.uk/products/product.jsp?id=73 as the clear coating coz i have a big can allready

to polish

to start with http://www.autoglym.co.uk/enGB/product- ... GI&Range=1 very good product

then finally

http://www.autoglym.co.uk/enGB/product- ... HD&Range=1 again another good product

bob321[/url]


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## mailee (30 Mar 2009)

This is the stuff you require for polishing the surface to a mirror shine.
http://www.consumablesexpress.co.uk/cgi ... ARG3_2f400
I doubt that the Ronseal stuff will be any good for rubbing back. It may dry in two hours but will take days if not weeks to cure enough to produce a mirror finish. I would personally go for the Rustins Plastic coat or the two pack AC laquer. (Which needs to be sprayed with an air fed mask I should add)


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## Derek Willis. (31 Mar 2009)

I thin my Rustins with Cellulose thinners, works well.
Derek.


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## GrahamRounce (31 Mar 2009)

Ok, Rustins it is. (I'll just have to disturb that moth in my wallet, grumpy though it gets)
Mailee - that link: G3 followed by G10?
Wet wet-and-dry? I take it that means damp rather than sopping wet, and avoid water getting to the ends or underside? Not like on a car, where you can work with a constant stream if you want to?

(This is all terrifically helpful - thanks again. Woodwork was the only subject I'd actually do voluntarily at lunchtime & after school. Why didn't I take it up properly? Rue! - Thank god, in a way, for the redundancy!)


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## Oryxdesign (31 Mar 2009)

Plastic coat the ends as well then it doesn't matter too much how wet you get it. I would wet and dry fairly wet personally.


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## bob321 (31 Mar 2009)

but it is possiable tho :? 

bob321


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