# Tool Chest Challenge proposal



## Alf (9 Feb 2005)

As things have been a little quiet round here, and the wax thread is getting out of hand _already_, I thought I'd share a *not yet fully-formed idea* with you:

I've been pondering on my long-considered plan of working out of the tool chest instead of from various drawers, racks, shelves etc. i.e. All the hand tools I commonly use gathered in one place, the chest, and see if I can rationalise the tools I actually _need_ from the ones I just _think_ I do. Also I want to see what the real-life practicalities are of working from a tool chest. They always look great, but does it really work or d'you end up unpacking half the stuff and cluttering up the workbench? 

One problem has been hampering me though; I can't decide what to put in it. 

So I got to thinking (always unwise) and I was wondering, would there be any interest in stocking the tool chest by consensus? I've, erm, got quite a wide selection of tools to choose from* and we all might learn a bit about the various types and how diferent woodworkers (i.e. Us) rate their usefullness/essentialness (almost certainly not a real word). I'd banish all other hand tools to sealed cupboards and drawers and just use what we'd decided to put in the chest for at least one project, reporting on what was or wasn't a good idea as I go along, natch. Crying over the burfl I'm not allowed to use as well, probably... 

What d'you think? Obviously a few details need ironing out, there may be the odd pause for reviews and so forth and I could have thought better of it by tomorrow, but worth having a go? Or should I go away and leave you to the leg wax?  

Cheers, Alf

* For a moment I feared this might be considered just a way to gloat, but as there's no way in the world I can out-gloat Philly or Chris I think it's pretty safe. It's certainly not my intention. No really. Honest. _Don't_ believe me then.


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## Chris Knight (9 Feb 2005)

Alf,

An interesting idea. A trifle masochistic in my view - at least for someone who has a workshop. I think tool chests were primarily aimed at two things - itinerant craftsmen/tradesmen and workers in shops where security was an issue.

All the chests I have seen at auction have looked fairly sad (that is to say the tools in them), even when they (are said to) have been used by working pros. I have never seen one within a couple of thousand light years of this one http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/masonicmu ... tudley.htm
which is what a nice workshop layout can start to approach - given lots of patience.

I think you will end up with tools all over the bench or nearby surfaces in no time flat!


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## Alf (9 Feb 2005)

waterhead37":3jqpy96z said:


> I think you will end up with tools all over the bench or nearby surfaces in no time flat!


I already do that with shelves and racks just handy.  Trying working from the chest is going to happen anyway, just to satisfy my own curiosity. And yes, it probably _is_ masochistic, but that shouldn't come as a surprise! :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Noel (9 Feb 2005)

What happened the "build off" with the tool chests a few months ago? Was it Gepetto and somebody else?

Noel


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## Philly (9 Feb 2005)

Alf
I'm intrigued! I certainly have had similar thoughts as to paring down the tools to a "user only" set. This is pretty much where I am today (honest!).
Do you have "The Best of Fine Woodworking-Bench Tools"? The first chapter is Frank Klausz-his workbench, utility table and tool box. He was writing about his "work space" and included a floor plan showing how he likes his bench in relation to his tool chest and low table for assembly. I'll photocopy it if your interested....
Anyway-i'm in.
Philly


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## Aragorn (9 Feb 2005)

Hi Alf
Nice idea!
Since I work a mixture of workshop and site (i.e. people's homes) then I tend to work mostly from my toolbox. I've gotten quite disciplined over the years at putting things back where they go, and, of course, everything has it's specific place!
When the tools come into the workshop, they are only supplimented by a few "shelf and rack" handtools - would be lovely to afford to double up on everything, but there we go.
So, in the workshop I'm working out of the box and I find it works well!


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## frank (9 Feb 2005)

my computer screen and the key board are awash with coffee, alf and philly both saying they have to many tools .i must go and lay down in a dark room .


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## trevtheturner (9 Feb 2005)

:shock: So is there a big Cornwall/Dorset sale coming up? :roll: 

Trev.


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## DaveL (9 Feb 2005)

trevtheturner":no49nfnc said:


> :shock: So is there a big Cornwall/Dorset sale coming up? :roll:
> 
> Trev.



Send the post codes, I will fire up the GPS 8) no need to pack anything for posting. :shock: :roll:


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## Noel (9 Feb 2005)

Shall I call Christies? Or Bonhams?

Noel

PS Put me down for a catalogue...


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## Midnight (9 Feb 2005)

> PS Put me down for a catalogue...



I take it now's a good time to find a good haulier..?????



> What happened the "build off" with the tool chests a few months ago?



pray elaborate..??


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## Pete W (9 Feb 2005)

I doubt I'll be offering any advice* but I'd certainly be interested in the debate and following report.




* Oh, alright... you need at least one marking gauge.


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## Anonymous (9 Feb 2005)

I think its a great idea, but with one addition: it has to be a complex project that is to be completed using only the tools from the chest. 

Anyone could build a cuttingboard with 3-4 tools, maybe even 1, so that wouldn't be a challenge, but dovetails, moulding, and some inlay perhaps, now that would be a bit more interesting! :lol:


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## Midnight (10 Feb 2005)

awwwwwww now c'mon Regan, play fair... how the heck do I get a table saw t fit in a tool cabinet...?????

:wink:


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## Philly (10 Feb 2005)

Ha, ha, you lot!
O.k.-so it might turn out to be a _tool caravan _instead of a _tool chest_.........
Philly


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## Alf (10 Feb 2005)

Right. Well obviously we need to firm up a few guidelines here or you'll leave me ripping everything with a D8, and neither I nor the timber would enjoy _that_ experience... Here are my thoughts:

*The Aim*
To get a reasonably comprehensive tool kit together suitable for cabinetwork in hardwoods. Not a limited, you-can-make-do list, but one that you'd expect a reasonably well-equipped furnituremaker to have available. We can highlight which tools we think are the essentials for the beginner as we go along maybe? This is for a neander/normite hybrid, which is what most of us are, so rough stock prep doesn't have to be catered for. The planer/thicknesser (planer & jointer, 'Murrican folks) is *allowed* as is the neaderbuddy, aka bandsaw. But really only for ripping and re-sawing. Cross-cuts, joints etc to be done by hand. The drill press I'm 50/50 on at the moment. I thought about making it totally neander but it's a bit pointless 'cos I'm not, so I'd end up with an erroneous idea of what tools I need. And backache.

*Limitations*
They've all got to fit in the tool chest
I've got to already own them or a very close equivalent!
Anything else? 

*Non-negotiable stuff I'm allowed*
The P/T and the bandsaw!  
Three tools of my choice just in case you take it into your heads to turn it into "I'm a neanderthal, get me outta here" and deny me the LN chisels or something. :shock:
Erm, possibly something else I haven't thought of yet, depending on how creative you get... :wink:

*Don't worry about...*
Sharpening gear
Lathe-related tools
Finishing supplies and equipment

*Project*
Regan has a good point. I have a possible small project in mind, but if anyone has any suggestions then I'm all ears. Not _too_ complicated or I'll never even start it  , and not too big 'cos of timber supplies being limited. Something that will stretch the kit a bit. No good adding in a mortise chisel and then having nothing to mortise, f'rinstance. Bear in mind this will probably be taking me a bit deeper into neanderthal territory than I usually go, so don't expect Queen Anne tallboys. Do expect "drat and blast, how did that go wrong?" posts. 

Comments, raspberries, etcs welcomed. One other thing; is there any point in including old woodies in the options? I'm inclined to think it's a more helpful list if it's just a choice from readily available, modern, types of plane, but perhaps not? Thoughts?

Mike, the tool chest builders are Alberto and Simon and they were/are going to build Gerstner-type chests. I think they were trying to play down the "build off" aspect 'cos Alberto already orded the timber while Si was still debating drawer depths.  

Cheers, Alf

P.S. There _is_ likely to be a big sell-off if this experiment proves successful as it happens.


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## Aragorn (10 Feb 2005)

Well, I like all your thoughts.
Regarding the project, I think *you *should choose that. Only you know what stock you have available, and it may as well be something that you'd like to keep at the end of it!

So, what's next?
Do you want us to just start posting lists of tools? That might quickly become tedious (and silly).
How about you come up with a _de rigueur_ list based on what you think is necessary/standard/available, and we could add or subtract depending on how sadistic we're feeling at the time!?

Just my thoughts...


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## Alf (10 Feb 2005)

Aragorn":1fsb61ny said:


> Regarding the project, I think *you *should choose that. Only you know what stock you have available, and it may as well be something that you'd like to keep at the end of it!


Hmm, s'pose so. Any ideas or "I stumbled across this plan and wondered...." stuff will be welcome though.



Aragorn":1fsb61ny said:


> So, what's next?
> Do you want us to just start posting lists of tools? That might quickly become tedious (and silly).
> How about you come up with a _de rigueur_ list based on what you think is necessary/standard/available, and we could add or subtract depending on how sadistic we're feeling at the time!?
> 
> Just my thoughts...


Well, unless we want to end up with some pretty unwieldy lists, it might help if we broke it down in to sections first of all. Maybe something like this:
Layout tools; rules, squares, dividers, bevels, gauges etc etc
Saws
Chisels; bench, mortise, paring, gouges etc
Planes; might have to sub-divide that one!
Scrapers; scrapers, scratchstocks etc
Boring tools
Pulling, prying, twisting and hitting tools; pincers, screwdrivers, hammers, mallets etc. All the unlovely but useful stuff!
Shaping tools; drawknives, shaves, rasps, files
Bet I've forgotten something, but you get the idea.

Then it gets tricky and may well make the whole a no-go. Making a list myself has been the stumbling block from the first, so that's no good. You could all give a list of your own favourite layout tools (for instance) and we could see which appear most often. Or I could take a picture of all my available tools of each sort (all the square varieties for instance) and see if we can come to consensus that way. At the very least I'd at least end up with a tool inventory, which'd be no bad thing. :roll: 

I dunno really; thoughts on this step very welcome.  I did warn you it was a not yet fully-formed idea!

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2005)

Philly":lifag7xe said:


> Alf
> I'm intrigued! I certainly have had similar thoughts as to paring down the tools to a "user only" set. This is pretty much where I am today (honest!).Philly



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2005)

Alf

I likle it!

However, my reservation is my own experience over the past 20 years of using tools in the garage. Basically i have oscillated between tool chests (bought and made at various times) and shelves or drawers so many times I can't count. Both appear better when you have chosen one and you get fed up with either pretty soon.


In a tool chest as you describe, I would go for the obvious  

Block plane, jack plane, shoulder plane, shave

Set of chisels (LN naturally :wink: ) + waterstone?
Back saw for tenons, panel saw, coping saw (dovetails) and dovetail saw

Decent screwdrivers, large and medium flat blade + no1 and no2 pozidrive

Drill (hand type for galoots or battteryf or me) + set of bits
Brace and bits

Combination set + engineers square, ruler (12"), protractor, marking knife, pencil

I recon that will do it for most hand crafted pieces :wink:


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## Midnight (10 Feb 2005)

> Mike, the tool chest builders are Alberto and Simon and they were/are going to build Gerstner-type chests. I think they were trying to play down the "build off" aspect 'cos Alberto already orded the timber while Si was still debating drawer depths.




Ahh..

I asked cos I've a tool cabinet in progress; wall mounted, double doors, drawers are an option I guess but not what I'd intended... I've had to set it aside for now to get on with a paying job...


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## radicalwood (10 Feb 2005)

Hi Alf, 

Once you have the list and the box is full, please forward all you surplus tools to me. :lol: :lol: :lol: 
So my suggestion is that you have a trip to B & Q to fill the box, please   . 

all the best 

Neil


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2005)

Tony":3q1oepaa said:


> Set of chisels (LN naturally :wink: )



Nah, japanese - set of oire nomi, and set of paring ones (can't remember the japanese word for them, other than it's got nomi in it )



Tony":3q1oepaa said:


> + waterstone?



Interesting - does sharpening come into the tool chest, or stay at a dedicated sharpening station? Perhaps a leather strop rather then a stone, for touching up during the day, with beginning/end of day spent at the sharpening station putting the proper edge back on whatever's been used?



Tony":3q1oepaa said:


> Back saw for tenons, panel saw, coping saw (dovetails) and dovetail saw



Again, Japanese saws as alternatives or additions to European ones. I'd go for piercing saw + jewellers blades instead of the coping saw, if just for dovetail waste clearance. Coping saw if used for cutting curvy edges...

See - personal preference on a lot of that; European vs. Japanese, or combinations of the 2!


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## Alf (10 Feb 2005)

Espedair Street":ork2o8b9 said:


> Tony":ork2o8b9 said:
> 
> 
> > + waterstone?
> ...


Rules edited.


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## Anonymous (11 Feb 2005)

I'd add a spokeshave (the new Veritas build-yer-own, or a Clifton).

Something with a bit of a curve in it might be a suitable project for this I think, even if it is just a curved front on a box (it also makes my spokeshave suggestion very useful! :wink: )

For the list (if everyone agrees..............) why not keep it brand or type non-specific? Rather than LN chisels, or Oire Nomi, or Henry Taylor, etc., lets just leave it at chisels. Likewise planes, or anyother tool. Does it matter if the bevel is Joseph Marples or Footprint? As well a jack plane (get ready for sacrilege...) is a jack, regardless of type the fucntion is the same.

Cheers,

Regan


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## Philly (11 Feb 2005)

Regan
I agree with you-for the moment lets get the list together, forget about brands until we have something solid.
Cheers
Philly


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## Aragorn (11 Feb 2005)

Does Alf _have _any Footprint planes :?: :shock:


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## Anonymous (11 Feb 2005)

Regan":ec6fnwfr said:


> why not keep it brand or type non-specific? Rather than LN chisels, Regan



Regan

Brand specific here as Alf _has_ a set of LN chisels and it is _her_ box after all! :lol:


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## Alf (11 Feb 2005)

Regan":hy50gywy said:


> For the list (if everyone agrees..............) why not keep it brand or type non-specific?


As it _has_ to be tools I already own, the list will inevitably end up brand specific to some degree, just to make them easier to identify which is meant. But certainly it might be worth making clear when it's a choice based on type, or whether the brand really was the deciding issue.

Cheers, Alf


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## Aragorn (4 Mar 2005)

I hope dragging this up to the fore again isn't going to invoke painful memories of a moment of workshop madness :roll: ... _but_ what's happened to this proposal Al??
Is it still on? (Don't seem to have seen any developments recently?)

________________
Cheers!
Aragorn

Who unusually seems to be having a "Handtool Friday" moment himself


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## Alf (4 Mar 2005)

Well I may have rethought a bit  , but if anyone's interested I can do a few pics over the weekend - now the w'shop's in reasonably workable order again. Any preferences for the next catergory? Chisels? Planes? Shaves and drawknives? 'ammers and uvver stuff for hitting fings wiv? Is there any point in boring you all with boring? :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## Aragorn (4 Mar 2005)

Next catagory... Hmmm. Guessing planes will take a few months, so maybe get on with that :wink: 
But then, I'm in the market for a new dovetail saw, so, purely being selfish here, I'd vote for Saws.

There. Decisive _and _inquisitive in one afternoon. If only I was in the workshop


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## Chris Knight (4 Mar 2005)

Alf,

Any of those would be interesting. 

It would be nice if you could take piccies of your growing compilation laid out on the bench so we can see how its progressing - just a thought.


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## Alf (4 Mar 2005)

Aragorn":3bfcbko3 said:


> I'd vote for Saws.


Someone hasn't been paying attention... :roll:  https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4025



waterhead37":3bfcbko3 said:


> It would be nice if you could take piccies of your growing compilation laid out on the bench so we can see how its progressing - just a thought.


Mmm, so really I need to build a bigger bench _first_... :roll: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Aragorn (4 Mar 2005)

Oooo So sorry Alf.    
I _was _paying attention at the time, promise!
I did actually mean CHISELS, as I'm in the market for a set. Sheesh - shopping list is _clearly _too long for my own good.


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## Anonymous (17 Jun 2005)

I'm a new member and this is my first post. I have been going back and reading posts I think I will be interested in. What is the status of the Tool Chest Challenge? I am in the process of rebuilding a c.1900 tool chest to better suit my needs. I am also in the process of looking for more old tools to stock it.  I haven't seen any posts about boring tools yet. I have some long auger bits I want to put in to drill chair bottoms. In addition to a regular brace and bits I will put in a egg-beater drill and push drill. The way my tool chest is made I think I'm going to put in a couple of removable totes instead of sliding tills. I'll try to get some photos taken this weekend.


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## Alf (17 Jun 2005)

Welcome to the forum, Gary.

Well it's kinda gone on hold a bit; sort of waiting for the next lull in proceedings to some extent. And also any sign of interest. (Now you've done it... 8-[ :lol: ) Feel free to kick off the next group of tools; we got as far as these so far, as you probably found in the archive.

Cheers, Alf


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## SlimShavings (18 Jun 2005)

US Muricans like to put fancy edges on things. Any room for a 45/55, or router,or hollow and rounds.


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## Chris Knight (18 Jun 2005)

Slim,

Alf will surely find room for a boat anchor - she loves the things! In this case I prefer the less is more option of a set of H&Rs.


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## Alf (18 Jun 2005)

waterhead37":1pjxdhiq said:


> In this case I prefer the less is more option of a set of H&Rs.


How's that less? I'd need another tool chest to hold them. :lol: 

I will get round to the planes some time, honest I will. It's just rather a formidable task...  

Cheers, Alf


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