# Bread Makers - practical solution or a marketing exercise?



## matt (30 Dec 2009)

What's the consensus re bread makers? I've put off buying one in the belief that they're another of those appliances that promise a lot but ultimately fail to deliver; either because they simply don't do what they're supposed to do or bake bread in "one hour" but take another hour to clean up afterwards.

So... Do you have a bread maker? Does it bake bread or live in the cupboard gathering dust?


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## jlawrence (30 Dec 2009)

Ours gets used as and when we can be bothered.
I find that a loaf from the maker will 'go off' in only a couple of days but one of those stay fresh ones from t'shop will last a week.
My mum and dad use theirs 2 oro 3 times a week and make alsorts of weird types of bread - I think my dad is now on his 3rd machine having worn 2 out.


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

They are great a first, then you realise you can do it much better by hand and it never gets used.


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## head clansman (30 Dec 2009)

hi 

yea really good, don't use ours much these days but when you need to make bread it's always very good . hc


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## flounder (30 Dec 2009)

There are few things better than the smell of fresh baked bread wafting round your kitchen! They are also good for mixing pizza bases.


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## DaveL (30 Dec 2009)

We are on our second one, and I have a bought a new pan for that!
I bake at least two loaves a week, overnight so I wake to the smell of fresh bread. I use a wholemeal malted flour from Waitrose most of the time but like some of the bread mixes from Wrights, the chilli is great but I have to buy it on line as nowhere stocks round here.


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

jlawrence":22np58jv said:


> Ours gets used as and when we can be bothered.
> I find that a loaf from the maker will 'go off' in only a couple of days but one of those stay fresh ones from t'shop will last a week.
> .......



That's because the majority of shop bought bread contains large amounts of preservative.


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## hivisvest72 (30 Dec 2009)

I have a gluten allergy so normal bread is off the menu, plus gluten free bread is brick hard, brittle stuff that costs way too much.

I use my breadmaker to make GF bread from a variety of different non-wheat flours and it works a treat. I don't find it messy at all - much less messy than a mixing bowl and bread tin in fact.

I put it all in, switch it on and leave it to it's own devices, no setting the oven, waiting for it to rise (or not), no watching for it being ready.

Only down side is that ir produces a rather 'cube shaped' loaf so not many slices, but each one is about the height of a double decker bus (to use the standard scale of course). Also, the metal paddle that mixes it all in the bowl has to be removed from the finished loaf, which, depending on how it stops can render a few slices of the finished loaf a mit mis-shaped (or missing big chunks).

They are cheap enough now to try it and put it on ebay after a month if you don't like it.

Cheers

Alan


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## GrahamH (30 Dec 2009)

Can't beat them if you like real bread. 

As mentioned in one of the posts is that most of them bake a rather square loaf. I tend to use the bread maker to make the dough and do the first proving and then cook in the oven.

I like bloomer loaves and this works a treat - the only real mess is if you put poppy seeds or something as a topping.

As they're not full of preservatives and other additives they don't keep as well so, bake small and often is the best way. Either that or you've got some bread for the ducks.


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## dedee (30 Dec 2009)

Ah bread - something they do very well over here.

I have always been mightily suspicious of bread that can stay fresh for a week. We buy 4-5 loaves a week and there is never enough for a bread pudding.

I had a bread machine on the wish list for xmas but it got forgotten. We do bake our own occasionally but always have problems finding somewhere warm enough for the rising/proving of the dough. In front of the wood stove only works in the winter.

Andy


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## Waka (30 Dec 2009)

We're on our second bread maker and if I had my way it would go in the skip with the other one.

It does take a while to get the mixture right and when it is you can produce a nice fresh loaf, but I find that it doesn't stay fresh very long.

Ours is now consigned to the cupboard where I hope it will stay.


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## Chris Knight (30 Dec 2009)

We have made fabulous bread in ours - too good in fact as I eat far too much of it so we had to stop using it on a regular basis.


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## big soft moose (30 Dec 2009)

they arent bad for making jam in - http://www.bread-maker.net/Bread-maker- ... ry-Jam.htm

as to actually using them for bread - IME they work great for making the dough but its best to cook it in the oven.


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## bodgermatic (30 Dec 2009)

RogerS":1i12kjor said:


> jlawrence":1i12kjor said:
> 
> 
> > Ours gets used as and when we can be bothered.
> ...



One of the main preservatives used in bread is Ascorbic Acid, which you can buy. Sounds nasty? It shouldn't, it's just vitamin C powder  You can also add malt extract (gooey stuff in jars) to make the loaf keep better.


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## Kalimna (30 Dec 2009)

Ooooh, I love a good bread!
Used to have a breadmaker, but never really liked the bread it produced. The crumb was never that good, the flavour was ok, but the main reason I didnt get on with it was simply the faff of having to remove the mixing bits from the base of the loaf. Now, maybe things have improved a little, but to be honest, you will get a far better loaf (ok, so you need to put a little extra effort in, say 20 minutes mixing, kneading and shaping (as well as the rising time)) if you do it all by hand. And if you go the sourdough route, then the only ingredients you would need is flour, salt and water. And don't scrimp on the salt - it is extremely important in the finished loaf.
Having said all that, the bread maker was very good for making jam in - don't laugh - I think most makers have a jam setting. Constantly stirring the fruit mixture to the correct temperature you see.....

So, save yourself even more cupboard space and invest in the River Cottage Bread book (somewhere around the £12 region) and make it by hand. It's about the best beginners bread book out there, and the recipes are excellent.

Oh, and by the way, Ascorbic Acid (whilst certainly vit C), is not added to flour mix primarily as a preserver - it has an action on the flour proteins to allow greater lattitude in baking/rising times. It basically improves the structure of the risen dough. And it is added in such tiny quantities that it shouldnt be worried about. Taken from "The Village Baker" by Joe Ortiz (a very good bread book, although rather American) :
"Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, gives tenacity to a limp, weak bread dough - providing the strength to permit the full development of the loaf" (p.13, first PB ed).

Yes, I do go on about bread, but it is such a simple luxury that we shouldnt take it for granted. And like many things made by oneself, the first time you produce a well risen loaf using nothing but flour (and the natural yeasts present within it), salt and water, gives a rather satisfied wellbeing kindof a feeling.....

Cheers,
Adam


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

bodgermatic":3s68mxf7 said:


> RogerS":3s68mxf7 said:
> 
> 
> > jlawrence":3s68mxf7 said:
> ...



It's all the other crud they stick in


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## MIGNAL (30 Dec 2009)

It's never going to rival a specialist Bakery. No way. but it might be quite acceptable.
I used to make the odd sourdough loaf in a regular oven, complete with pizza stone and a simple method of introducing steam. Lots of info on the net on how to achieve better results with home equipment.


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## matt (30 Dec 2009)

I think I may try mixing the dough in the Magimix and continue to bake in the oven. As someone mentioned earlier, it's finding a suitable warm place for the dough to rise. I was contemplating a low temp in the oven but the min is 50c which I suspect is too high.


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## dedee (30 Dec 2009)

If one does the mixing rising in the machine how do you know when to take the dough out? 


Andy


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## Kalimna (30 Dec 2009)

If you are going to use the magimix to mix the dough, be careful. The rapid blade speed (even the dough blade) may not develop the gluten iin the flour very well. Stretching and mixing is what you want, not blending. Also, those machines can generate a fair amount of heat (I know, I have one!) which is also not necessarily good for the dough.

Having said that, give it a go on pulse, and see what happens.

As far as needing a warm temp - it doesnt really matter. If you leave it in a cooler place then it is just going to take a bit longer to prove, is all. But that also means longer for the yeast to develop flavour, and you will end up with a tastier bread for it. You could leave it to rise in the fridge if you really wanted to. Perhaps not if you wanted a loaf in 2009 tho  And, as you suggest, too warm can be a problem in that the structure of the rising dough doesnt hold onto the developing gas pockets as well if done quickly.

As far as mixing in a bread machine and baking in the oven - if i emember, then the machines have a mixing only setting too.

Cheers,
Adam


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## Dave S (30 Dec 2009)

Brilliant things. We bake at least one loaf a day, sometimes more. We had a cheap one at first and when it packed up we bought, on advice, a Panasonic. It's more expensive but superb - far better texture and flavour and it does a loaf more than large enough for sandwiches for a family of four. In a year, ours has easily justified its purchase on cost alone.

A wide variety of breads can be done with the machine, but if you want to be more adventurous you can use it for the hard work and then bake in the oven. It also does a good pizza dough too.

I used to wonder what the fuss was about, but I wouldn't be without ours now.

Dave


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## GCR (30 Dec 2009)

We have a Panasonic. We make all our bread in it, mainly wholemeal (rye, a little white rest wholemeal, all organic although I dont know if it makes a difference). Fruit loaf works well. Worn out one paddle, another due soon. Contrary to a previous post we find the bread lasts well - but then we do know how fresh it is and what goes into it.
Bob


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## Harbo (30 Dec 2009)

I have had a Panasonic for many years - great machines - used it this morning.
I generally make a Ciabatto? recipe which uses olive oil.
It keeps very well but gets eaten very quickly!  
No preservatives - just flour, water, oil, yeast and a very small amount of salt and sugar (1 teaspoon).
You just add the ingredients to the container, set the controls and 4hrs later a lovely loaf of bread - simple!

Rod


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## BMac (30 Dec 2009)

You've got me interested in bread makers now. I did a quick run through Which? Online and found this Morphy-Richards that they score a bit higher than Panasonic and it's half the price.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Morphy-Richards ... d_sxp_f_pt

Any opinions please? I don't mind paying for a Panasonic but is it worth the difference?

Brendan


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## Tenko (30 Dec 2009)

I have a Morphy Richards one, have no problem with the bread not lasting because its no chemicals in it, a loaf has gone within a couple of hours of coming out of the bread maker. Fresh cooked bread, when you've been smelling it cooking, with loads of butter melting cos the bread is warm, sheer bliss. It rarely gets cold.

Mick.


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## MikeH (30 Dec 2009)

On my second machine now. Used to use it a lot, 2-3 times per week. Loved it for rolls, mix in the machine then rise in the airing cupboard and bake in the oven, excellent.

Current machine doesn't get that much use as SWMBO is not too keen on the bread, personally I would use it more.

The current machine gets around the hole in the bottom problem mostly. It has a hinged mixer and at the end of the mixing it back turns a bit which hinges the mixer paddle down out of the way.


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## cambournepete (30 Dec 2009)

I have a Panasonic SD255 - £86 on Amazon.
Makes excellent bread, just follow the recipes in the instruction book.
OK, it doesn't last as long as shop bread, but is much nicer and you control what goes in.
I'd say anything less than the Panasonic is a false economy.
Making bread from scratch yourself is better, but more long winded, especially if you prove the dough in the fridge overnight.
You can use a Magimix to mix dough, but you need to leave it for a long time for the gluten to develop.
Best book I've seen on bread making is Dough by Richard Bertinet.


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## matt (31 Dec 2009)

Why does it take longer for the gluten to develop when mixed in a Magimix versus a bread maker mixing it?


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## newt (31 Dec 2009)

The smell of home made bread helps sell your house.


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## PAC1 (31 Dec 2009)

We use it for the mixing only and then make rolls, leave in a warm place (on top of the AGA), when risen bake for 6 to 8 mins.

To make them last the week, as soon as they have cooled down put them in the freezer. Each morning take out as many as needed for that day and thaw them or even warm them in the oven.


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## matt (31 Dec 2009)

newt":2erxq54g said:


> The smell of home made bread helps sell your house.



So that's why estate agents keep hassling me to sell my house...


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## Gordon T (1 Jan 2010)

Hello all,

we also have a panasonic bread maker, have had it five or six years now, it was best buy recommended by which magazine. We ( me ) use it several times a week, sometimes use packet mixes but mainly ingredients per the recipe book that came with it.
The bread is superb and may not last as long as shop bought bread, but a loaf does not last long in a family of five.
My favourite by far is home made malt loaf........I can feel the pounds going on my waistline just by thinking about it,,,,cleaning it is a doddle, the whole process is so easy and it makes the house smell lovely....
thats enough from me I can sense another loaf coming on

GT


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## grafter (5 Jan 2010)

BMac":2d7eji7f said:


> You've got me interested in bread makers now. I did a quick run through Which? Online and found this Morphy-Richards that they score a bit higher than Panasonic and it's half the price.
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Morphy-Richards ... d_sxp_f_pt
> 
> ...



i have a morphy richards - an older version and its great. TBH the novelty kind of wore off and it sees little use - but it does make great bread. supermarkets sell pre mixed bags ready to just chuck in with the water


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## BMac (5 Jan 2010)

Thanks Grafter,

I think I'll give this a go.

Brendan


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## filsgreen (8 Jan 2010)

Well guys after following this thread I have finally bought a Panasonic 255. I wish I had bought it when the thread started as they were £11 cheaper  , hey ho. Could anyone kindly give me the ingredients I will need for a brown loaf, or any tips for making better bread please?

TIA

Phil


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## Racers (8 Jan 2010)

Hi,

We use the recipies in the book they turn out fine.

Pete


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## filsgreen (8 Jan 2010)

I have read the recipes work Pete, but I'm hoping someone can give me a heads up on what I need before the bread maker arrives. I can then start playing with my new toy straight away without having to go to the shop  

Phil


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## Smudger (8 Jan 2010)

This is not how the purists do it...

I've started making basic bread again (because I can) in an old Russell Hobbs breadmaker I bought in a Sainsbury's sale ten years ago. 

Today I bought:
Hovis strong white flour (look for the one marked for breadmakers)
Hovis Yeast (sachets in a yellow packet)
Dried Milk (Marvel, though I prefer generic as it is cheaper)
You will also probably need some butter, salt, sugar.

That's it for basic bread (according to mine). It makes quite acceptable bread, quite rich, excellent for toast and croutons as well.

You can get into nuts & raisins, cinnamon etc later. That first slice, eaten too warm with melting butter is a great taste!


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## woodbloke (8 Jan 2010)

I used one successfully for a couple of years (forget the make) but the worst thing about it was the mess carving off slices and the fact that I could only hack doorsteps.

I suspect that if I'd honed a finer bevel at 13.255075 deg each side of the knife bevel I'd have been able to slice off bits 10thou thick :lol: - Rob


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## SimonB (8 Jan 2010)

We have a Russell Hobbs Breadman Ultimate, works very well. Started off making bread from scratch but now use the Hovis Granary readymix which we like the flavour and texture of and is extremely simple to prepare, just add water and butter.

I found that one of these helps extend the freshness by a couple of days

http://www.lakeland.co.uk/bread-keeper/ ... oduct/5052


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## Michael7 (8 Jan 2010)

Allinsons sell big bags of bread flour (buy more than you need. I read somewhere that flour gets better if its stored longer).
Doves Farm sell quick yeast in a 125g packet (cheaper than the sachets and if you bake a loaf every day you will use the packet before the yeast goes off). Make sure you buy "Quick Yeast".
Both can be bought in Tescos.

Michael.


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## gidon (8 Jan 2010)

Eric":2zngsc5w said:


> Allinsons sell big bags of bread flour (buy more than you need. I read somewhere that flour gets better if its stored longer).



We used to stock pile it - but then had 1st hand experience of flour worms!! We don't bother anymore - we just buy as we need it.

We have the Panasonic machine, before that the LG - both had come out well in reviews. Prefer the Panasonic though - look out for deals on Amazon - the cheaper one was less than £50 a while back.

The bread doesn't last long - good for the first day only as bread I'd say - but delicious fot toast well beyond this.

We tend to use it in fits and starts - when in the habit - every day and then not at all for a month or two!!

Cheers

Gidon


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## RobertMP (8 Jan 2010)

Recently ordered the Panasonic 255 from here (£ 88 ) . Free delivery was stated to be 'up to 10 working days' but order status says despatched after 1 day.... so it may arrive soon or it may not 

Went via quidco so getting about £3.50 off what already seems a good price.

Seems a breakmaker table or cabinet of some kind where it can live and be used may be my next project. Theory is if it is somewhere easy to use we'll use it... put it away in a cupboard and it will never come out again.

£88 88 8)

ah it is 8 and ) that makes 8)


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## cambournepete (8 Jan 2010)

Smudger":1j7xmjbg said:


> Dried Milk (Marvel, though I prefer generic as it is cheaper)


I don't think any recipe in the Panasonic book requires powdered milk.
I use olive oil instead of butter in the bread as I prefer the taste.


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## dickm (8 Jan 2010)

We are on our second Panasonic (first one was commandeered by our daughter) and both are used at least twice a week as there's no bread shops out in our bit of the wilds. 
Use the wholemeal recipe from the Panasonic book (which does need dried milk, cheapest from Co-op). Flour comes in kg packs from local wholefood shop.
Interestingly, the one our daughter has is better for granary bread than ours, where our's is better for wholemeal. No idea why.


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## Michael7 (8 Jan 2010)

gidon":nix0om1o said:


> Eric":nix0om1o said:
> 
> 
> > Allinsons sell big bags of bread flour (buy more than you need. I read somewhere that flour gets better if its stored longer).
> ...



Thanks for the tip


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## cambournepete (8 Jan 2010)

dickm":3ny8bken said:


> Use the wholemeal recipe from the Panasonic book (which does need dried milk, cheapest from Co-op).


Not in my SD255 recipe book... not that it matters 
Although one of the spelt an one of the gluten free recipes do use it.
We mostly use Glebe Farm organic flour (and yeast), as they're local to us, and Doves organic for flour Glebe Farm don't do.
It's definitely worth paying more for a good flour as it makes much better bread.


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## Stormsinger (8 Jan 2010)

you can always store flour in your freezer if you buy it in large amounts. We used to that when living in Africa, kept the weevils out, so I would think it would work here too.


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## Robert (8 Jan 2010)

We were given a Panasonic for our 25th wedding anniversary. Its really useful for normal bread ( almost always wholemeal but sometimes exotic fooled around with loaf). But it is slow. Not longer than you should leave it to rise etc but I am impatient at this sort of thing. 
The result is we use it a couple of times a week for everyday bread setting it to cook overnight and taking it out finished around 6am. If we are in a hurry or need bread during the day it is quicker and easier to use the food processer/hand and oven. I then will warm the flour in the oven on a low temp and rise in the oven with the heat off. 
Its been very useful and is a great kitchen machine, the instruction book is a good place to start but experiment and rejoice in the failures.
Our flour comes from the local windmill, good strong flour. http://www.wickenmill.co.uk/index.html sorry for the plug


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## cambournepete (8 Jan 2010)

Robert":1mizj59g said:


> Our flour comes from the local windmill, good strong flour. http://www.wickenmill.co.uk/index.html


That's not far from me - I'll have to go and visit...
Glebe Farm is at Kings Ripton, near Huntingdon.


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## Smudger (9 Jan 2010)

I lost the manual for my Russell Hobbs, and I've just borrowed another to scan a copy.

It is probably the most patronising document I've ever read:



> "If you'd rather tear a bit off, smother it in butter, and eat it hot, hold a bit of kitchen towel under your chin, to keep the drips off your clothes"



WTF?



> "Don't cut the bread until you've removed the kneading arm, you'll score the non-stick surface, you'll probably damage the knife, _and you may even cut yourself_."



I haven't found the part that warns me not to lick the electrical socket yet.


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## Steve Maskery (9 Jan 2010)

Dick, don't lick the electrical socket.

My Breville AWT has started to produce bricks. I did modify the program and it was working tickety-boo, but I've changed the flour and I'm getting loaves that are risen all round the edge but sunken in the middle. In section they look like a capital M. The flavour is good but they are very heavy and crusty. Does anyone know what aspect of the cycle (or recipe) I need to tweak?

S


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## cambournepete (9 Jan 2010)

How fresh is your instant yeast?
If it's much out of date it won't work properly - been there, done that, as I wasn't going to waste it...


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## Steve Maskery (9 Jan 2010)

Hmm, dunno, I got a big bag yonks ago. I think I'll try a new batch. Thanks.
S


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## filsgreen (9 Jan 2010)

Thanks to everyone who has posted recipes and tips, please keep them coming.

Phil

PS. It's a good job I've decided to make my own bread, people are starting to panic buy. Apparently the bread shelves were empty in an Asda in liverpool yesterday.


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## Gordon T (9 Jan 2010)

Hello all bread addicts, yesterday I found a well out of date bread mix at the back of a cupboard, I baked it anyway.......it only rose to half size. My wife calls it heavy bread, you dont need much of that to fill you up, and even though it is not at its best it is still better than shop bought, and will be superb today toasted!!!!

GT


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## Michael7 (9 Jan 2010)

Steve Maskery":tynahz65 said:


> My Breville AWT has started to produce bricks. I did modify the program and it was working tickety-boo, but I've changed the flour and I'm getting loaves that are risen all round the edge but sunken in the middle. In section they look like a capital M. The flavour is good but they are very heavy and crusty. Does anyone know what aspect of the cycle (or recipe) I need to tweak?
> 
> S



As Pete suggested yeast, I too think so. I was having the same problem with using the wrong type of yeast.


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## filsgreen (10 Jan 2010)

I bought fresh yeast from Morrisons yeaterday, 45p for 120gms. Is this the correct one to use?


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## gasmansteve (10 Jan 2010)

Hi folks
Interesting topic :lol: . I was shown a book by a guy at work `The Handmade loaf` by Dan Lepard and in some of the book Dan advocates bread making using home made leaven as the rising agent. Unless I`m mistaken I think this method goes under the name `sourdough`?. The dough takes a lot longer to rise before going in the oven but the bread has the most amazing taste when baked. I did wonder if some of the new programmable bread making machines could be used for sourdough type bread but I`m not sure I dare ask the question on Dan`s web site :shock: .
Regards
Steve


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