# Hello - Newbie from Scotland



## PMP (11 Dec 2016)

Hi all,

My name is Rick and i hail from the north east of Scotland (moving house in 1.5 months to Elgin  )

I have recently started my own business doing commission painting of wargaming figures and accessories, and as part of that business i am designing and making my own plinths and display boards etc.

To that end i am looking at learning basic woodturning skills to produce designs for my business, working around the 60mm - 30mm diameter area.

As a total newbie i have read that i should get Keith Rowley's book on the subject, which i have ordered, and try and learn as much as i can with videos and if possible local tuition\open days of any clubs.

I stumbled upon this website and thought it might be a good place to meet some people and learn some turning help.

All i have at the moment is a basic lathe my dad bought me as help towards the business and my xmas present (i am 35, but as soon as he thought he could go to machine mart he was all over it, and it became like i was 10 again going to toys R us  )

Anyway, the lathe is a Clarke CWL325V, now i realise this may make many recoil in horror, but it seemed a decent little lathe for the price and will get me started as i am not aiming to do any heavy duty turning for the foreseeable future.

As funds are very low just now and with house move, i havent looked at sharpening equipment or tools, but i want to get decent stuff, as i expect cheap tools will be a hiding to nothing.

Main hurdle will be learning how to sharpen properly, but hopefully i can get it through practice and starting slowly.

Anyway, nice to meet you all, and looking forward to developing this part of my business.

Rick (my username is the initials of my business name)


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## skipdiver (11 Dec 2016)

Welcome Rick, plenty of knowledge and advise on this here forum. Turning not my forte but there are plenty of turners hereabouts.


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## dickm (12 Dec 2016)

Welcome to this particular madhouse! One thing you might find very useful is to join a woodturning club. I'm a bit further south (Formartine) so can't advise about the North Coast, but there is probably a club somewhere along there. There are a couple in the Huntly- Inverurie area, but they'd be a bit far on a winter's night!


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## kevinlightfoot (12 Dec 2016)

You should get in touch with Mick Odonnell I am sure he can put you on the right track ,he lives on Dunnet head a lovely part of the world and not too far from you.


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## scotstony (12 Dec 2016)

kevinlightfoot":3kc0t8fx said:


> You should get in touch with Mick Odonnell I am sure he can put you on the right track ,he lives on Dunnet head a lovely part of the world and not too far from you.


Might as well be a million miles, Dunnet Head is on the edge of the world 
I think there may be a mens shed organisation near to Elgin, im in Inverness and there is one here. If you can get to a local craft fair, there is always someone there who is selling turned stuff.


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## PMP (12 Dec 2016)

Hi folks,

Thanks for the replies. As we don't move to Elgin until the end of January I'll be a stranger in a strange land for a while until I find all the local places but hopefully be something relatively local but I don't mind the odd schlep .

Hopefully my woodturning book turns up tomorrow and I can have a good read. Next issue is working out where to turn as new house has a shed but it's just a standard garden shed which I plan to build in a work desk but will still have usual shed items in it. 

Bu it's not like buying first house is stressful at all......


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## scotstony (12 Dec 2016)

PMP":2cdq8u0w said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Thanks for the replies. As we don't move to Elgin until the end of January I'll be a stranger in a strange land for a while until I find all the local places but hopefully be something relatively local but I don't mind the odd schlep .
> 
> ...


your going to need a bigger shed


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## SteveF (12 Dec 2016)

welcome to the forum
my brother paints figures for a living
turns out some fantastic stuff
never asked me for any plinths which I always find strange
his parting gift as he moved to cornwall was to paint an old chess set for me
I just have to make a chess board now

ramble over

Syeve


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## SVB (13 Dec 2016)

Welcome. 

Grab a glass of wine and put an evening aside for a trawl with the search facility on here as it is very good and there is much info here. 

Tools wise, any of the name brands are good (Henry Taylor, Sorby, hamlet, crown) and Axminster do some very nice own brand tools that are made in the same place as one of the name brands above!

Sharpening, a grinder with a white wheel, jigs make it easier and there are some good posts on homemade jigs that will serve you well if cash is tight etc. 

Anyways, welcome aboard and look forward to seeing some of your work!

Simon


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## donwatson (13 Dec 2016)

Hi Rick, Welcome to the forum.
Have a look at the SMSA website, (join if you wish, its free), they have a list of the Men's Sheds in Scotland. I am sure there are about 14 starting/started in your neck of the woods.

take care
Don W
SMSA = Scottish Men's Sheds Association


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## lurker (13 Dec 2016)

kevinlightfoot":3uuo2kyf said:


> You should get in touch with Mick Odonnell I am sure he can put you on the right track ,he lives on Dunnet head a lovely part of the world and not too far from you.




I have a home in Loughborough but worked for several years near Thurso (not far from Micheal who I know quite well) and had a house up there.
Doorstep to doorstep was 600 miles
The northerly 200 miles took longer than the southerly 400 miles.
Best I ever managed was 10 hours.

I'd guess Elgin to Dunnett 3.5 hours.


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## TFrench (13 Dec 2016)

Any pictures of you model painting work? I used to be into WH40k but cars, women and houses became more interesting. Something I definately would like to come back to!


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## lurker (13 Dec 2016)

Getting bored with women Tom?


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## Morten (13 Dec 2016)

Welcome Rick


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## TFrench (13 Dec 2016)

lurker":sqcol327 said:


> Getting bored with women Tom?


 :lol: got to do something when the bake offs on!


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## PMP (13 Dec 2016)

@tfrench 

I can't post pics on forum yet but if you have a look at pictishminiaturepainting on google (my page) you can see some of my stuff in the gallery .

Looking forward to learning more with my woodturning book over Christmas


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## PMP (9 Mar 2017)

Hi again folks.

Been a while sinc3 I first posted but movex house and got all sorted out in Elgin. 

I haven't got my shed setup yet but fo7nd a local supplier of turning tools, Robert Sorby brand. Quite expensive but good quality.

I've seen Henry Taylor stuff online in a trade magazine but tbh don't know what what is good or bad.

Looking at a grinder and jig first but that's simpler to sort out.

Hopefully turn my first practice pieces in the late spring


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## PMP (9 Aug 2019)

Hi again folks, long time no posting.

However I have moved forward with the turning setup.

Over the last year i put £2 and £1 coins in a terramundi pot, and asked for any birthday\xmas gifts to just be any small donation to the pot towards getting my shed kitted out. In the end got together over £400 

I was able to get the Robert Sorby 6 piece turning set, an 8" grinder, 80grit ruby sharpening wheel, a sharpening jig (Unbranded one made by a uk engineer) and some other hand tools\ measuring stuff etc.

Got power to the shed and started sharpening after watching many videos and reading a few books, and so far its gone okay, haven't buggered my fancy tools and was able to re profile the bowl gauge closer to the irish grind style (not tried a bowl yet).

So far i have turned some practice pieces on spare pine i had and on some fence posts that are a bit thicker to work away on just getting used to the tools. So far I find the spindle gouge easiest to work with, but i am having an issue sharpening the skew chisel as my jig is off centre by a couple of mm so not horizontally true, so need to fix that first.

I will get a few pictures up once i have posted a few more times and passed the posting limits 

Enjoying the process and find it very therapeutic, though finding a few errors in my work, mainly the odd light catch or tearing the wood, but that's why i am using cheap wood to train


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## Stanleymonkey (9 Aug 2019)

Don't remember seeing your original posts - so I'll say welcome. Quite nice to read the condensed version and see you are still sticking to your plan. All the best, hope your house move went well. Had a look at your website. Your artwork looks amazing - wish I had that level of skill and patience.

Good luck


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## PMP (10 Aug 2019)

I can now post images, so a couple from the shed setup (grinder wasnt attached at this point, it is on the right at the front before the lathe now.

The other imag is my 3 test pieces so far, left most is the first go with tools that were new but not sharpened on grinder yet, second one was after first sharpening, and the larger 3rd one was from a cut square block to test coving etc.

Still getting some catches and i am sure i am using the spindle gouge incorrectly but getting better and just taking it slowly.

Main issue is the lathe vibrates a tiny bit if bigger piece is in the lathe and as a result it creeps along the bench. Plan is to screw small plywood blocks against the base of the lathe to prevent creep. The lathe is quite stout and its more if a piece is unbalanced.



20190713_161518 by Richard Rose, on Flickr



20190810_182724 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


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## Garno (10 Aug 2019)

That is one clean and tidy workshop


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## Robbo3 (11 Aug 2019)

Not sure if anyone has said, but get a copy of Keith Rowley - Woodturning A Foundation Coarse. 84p + £2.79 p & p) from
- https://www.alibris.co.uk/booksearch?ke ... 29&hs.y=28

You are getting tear out from either having blunt tools, taking too big a cut or cutting uphill. With spindle work we always cut downhill ie from outside towards the centre.

Have a days tuition with a professional. That will give you the basics of technique & how to sharpen your tools. Try & find a local club to join.

If you can't do either, get the book & just keep making shavings. You'll find out what works & what doesn't. Most of all, enjoy.


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## Trevanion (11 Aug 2019)

You never see it recommended, but I think "Modern Woodturning" by Gordon Stokes is an excellent book for a beginner. You can tell its written by a master because of all the very firm "YOU MUST NOT" about bad practice described in the book :lol: You can pick it up for pence off Abebooks or eBay. I happened across a signed copy from the man himself dated 1975, with some pieces of paper with some detailing which I have yet to deciper in it.


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## PMP (11 Aug 2019)

Robbo3":24gxnbsi said:


> Not sure if anyone has said, but get a copy of Keith Rowley - Woodturning A Foundation Coarse. 84p + £2.79 p & p) from
> - https://www.alibris.co.uk/booksearch?ke ... 29&hs.y=28
> 
> You are getting tear out from either having blunt tools, taking too big a cut or cutting uphill. With spindle work we always cut downhill ie from outside towards the centre.
> ...



Hi Robbo, thanks for the tips 

I do have the Woodturning: A foundation course : one i got had a dvd which was very informative.

I do try and follow the good practice in the book and so far most of the catches have been either from a mistake i knew i made straight after i did it, i.e. saw what i did wrong, or i am using the tool in an improper way, i.e. the round edge scraper in too tight a space.

The good thing about the cheap cuts is, it costs nothing to make these learning mistakes so can get better before trying something nicer.

The main one i did was with the parting tool and i think it was too blunt and also i came in at it with the tool point facing upwards and presenting it to the turning wood, when it seems to work safer and better when i present the point at a horizontal angle to the turning face.

Took a morning to play about with my sharpening jig after watching some more videos online and got much better results with a single bevel angle with no facets on the fingernail profiles


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## lurker (11 Aug 2019)

I would suggest the lathe could be quite dangerous if you do not bolt it down to the bench.
At best it will vibrate / move so much you will never get anything made.


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## PMP (11 Aug 2019)

I have thought about that too, a bit more involved as the lathe has no mounting points, so will need brackets made and holes drilled into the iron base of the bed. not massively difficult, just a bit more involved.


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## Dave Brookes (11 Aug 2019)

Not trying to be a “smart ar*e” but have you looked under the feet for tapped holes to bolt it down from?

Dave


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## Robbo3 (12 Aug 2019)

PMP":1a3whlt6 said:


> ..... so far most of the catches have been either from a mistake i knew i made straight after i did it, i.e. saw what i did wrong, or i am using the tool in an improper way, i.e. the round edge scraper in too tight a space.
> 
> The good thing about the cheap cuts is, it costs nothing to make these learning mistakes so can get better before trying something nicer.
> 
> ...



That's good. If you can analyse what went wrong it's much easier to not make the same mistake again.

I quite agree about cheap, or better still, free wood. I quite often use logs from the firewood pile to practice on.

Well done with the sharpening. Now that you have got it right with the gouge(s) what you require is consistency so as not to waste metal ie same jig angle, same gouge protrusion & same pivot point distance from the wheel.


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## PMP (12 Aug 2019)

Dave Brookes":c66elbzo said:


> Not trying to be a “smart ar*e” but have you looked under the feet for tapped holes to bolt it down from?
> 
> Dave



Yeah i had a look when i took the lathe apart for a clean\service as it had sat for over a year before being in a position to use it and apart from being quite heavy cast iron, the base just has right angle ends that sit on the thin profile (If you see what i mean), no flat sections to sit on that i could drill through, will need some "L" plates made up.

Not hard, but feel adding in some casted mounting points would have been a basic design requirement.


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Aug 2019)

When you do bolt it down it'll pay you to get it as close to the front of the bench as you can. You'll find it back breaking where it is.


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## PMP (23 Sep 2019)

And it was all going so well....

I finally got the lathe bolted down over the weekend, what with my wife bing 7 months pregnant now and being busy last few months with commissions and a rather unfortunate event where for an unknown reason my body decided that it didnt want to be upright and promptly passed out while in the loo early one morning, properly faceplanted onto the stone tiled floor, bit through my lip and wife called ambulance, which is what you want at 5am. fortunately nothing wrong, just seen as either low blood pressure from early AM just stabding up, or it can happen when you go for morning loo visit!!

So decided not to operate sharp tools and high speed machinery for a bit.

First quiet day for a bit between commissions so i started playing about with some new techniques, and...it didnt go well.

I wanted to try and make a small goblet going by the instructions in Keith Rowleys book, mainly hollowing out on spare blocks to get a feel for it, and after 3 attempts i was about ready to set my shed on fire.

I did secure my lathe down to the desk:



20190923_122057 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

First failure was my own fault and i knew what happened, using a small 3/8" spindle gouge i was carefully removing material but after a bit i think the trailing edge of the profile caught the side wall at the edge and the piece working on came right off the machine, i think the scroll chuck doesnt grip strongly enough and pieces can move out under jerks\catches.



20190923_121639 by Richard Rose, on Flickr



20190923_121628 by Richard Rose, on Flickr GONE!

So i cut off the waste and made another attempt, this time using my 3/8" bowl gouge, which i made into a more high winged grind from the standard factory setup. This i was being very cagey with as its a bigger tool (diamater of the tool compared with the spindle gouge) and i was wary of digging in and parts flying!



20190923_121508 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

This time i screwed the wood onto the faceplate to get a stronger hold for working. The tool was working okay, i was making sure not to present at 90' to the tool rest and make sure the lower left of the cutting edge from the tip was cutting and not the wing so moving the tool handle away from my as i came up the side wall while hollowing (if that makes sense).

However after a bit it must have caught again and the whole thing (only a cylinder about 4" long and 3" wide so nothing big!) ripped off the faceplate and at that point i gave it up as a bad job.



20190923_121652 by Richard Rose, on Flickr



20190923_121658 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Examples of the drama:


The main issue i have is, there isnt any local turning groups around here (nearest is about an hour away) and yout tube vids and reading can only show you so much.

I realise this is only my first attempts at hollowing, but for both time to result in cathcing and rippping the wood from the lathe, its not filling me with confidence.

On the plus side, i was able to turn out a sharper looking new type of xmas tree using the scroll chuck jaws holding the piece and parted it off safely with parting tool  so not all bad.

I will keep working away and maybe the smaller diameter hollowing out is actually harder than a bowl blank that has more space to work and less acute angles. Dunno


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## Munch (23 Sep 2019)

I had the same problem and used scrapers to get my confidence up.


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## Trevanion (23 Sep 2019)

I'm surprised one of the turning boys hasn't chimed in yet.

I think a lot of your problem actually stems from wood choice, more than anything. Pine is very difficult to turn well without razor-sharp tools and good technique, especially end-grain hollowing. The hard-soft-hard-soft nature of the material with the soft earlywood and the hard latewood tends to make tools dig into the earlywood and then get caught by the hard latewood resulting in a "catch". Plus you were trying to cut through a knot which didn't help! :lol:

I would suggest trying to get a hold of a decent, affordable hardwood to practice on. It seems daft to buy a more expensive material for practice than pine but the actual turning will be far easier, the end result is usually far better, you'll enjoy yourself more because you won't be thinking it's down to your lack of experience. I'd recommend getting some Beech as it's fairly inexpensive and pretty forgiving to turn as it's usually knot-free and very uniform, it's not the prettiest timber in the world but it's good for practice and does finish quite nicely.


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## PMP (23 Sep 2019)

Thanks for that tip, i had wondered if maybe the fence-post i had been using may be giving me issues, and i did wonder if that knot was giving me jip, i think its what grabbed the bowl gouge and took the piece off the faceplate!

Ill see if i can source some Beach blocks and cylinders to practice spindle and face plate work on a different wood.

See if ebay can provide anything, or are there suppliers that sell practice blocks that aren't pen block sized little bits?


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## nev (23 Sep 2019)

Two things to note.

Your chuck has an optimum grip on a spigot of a certain size. If the round you are gripping is too large you will only be gripping the wood with the very corners of each jaw which will result in the wood leaving the chuck at the slightest catch.

Secondly, as mentioned above, the fast growing extra soft wood you show in your example is not the best thing for turning even with sharp tools and good technique, and because its so soft it squishes easily and is another reason it may well leave the chuck early.
No need to buy expensive blanks, old table legs, firewood, fallen branches etc - anything really barring fast grown building timbers.


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## Trevanion (23 Sep 2019)

PMP":2pfpbbnt said:


> Ill see if i can source some Beach blocks and cylinders to practice spindle and face plate work on a different wood.
> 
> See if ebay can provide anything, or are there suppliers that sell practice blocks that aren't pen block sized little bits?



Stiles and Bates have a pretty good selection of blanks for a fair price:
https://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/browse.php/section/58/level/2

Their Beech spindle blank section:
https://www.stilesandbates.co.uk/product.php/section/6274/sn/BEESB_MST

As Nev said though, you can turn pretty much any old wood you fancy, it's all practice at the end of the day 

I've turned Accoya before for detailing on a bay boxed sash window, the corners had a mopstick running the height of the box and then there were two turned balls on either end. Accoya is made from Radiata Pine which is very quick grown and absolutely TERRIBLE to turn :lol:. You can't even sand it right as the soft spots wear away much faster than the hard spots so you end up with a wavy piece.


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## Robbo3 (24 Sep 2019)

Nothing to disagree with on the advice given so far however when gripping a spindle in the chuck, especially when the other end isn't being supported, you should do so on a tenon. The jaws give the grip but it is the wood contact on the front face of the jaws that prevents movement.
As to softwood, if you can master that then you can master anything. Whilst it is nice to achieve an end result it's practice, practice, practice (& sharp tools) that will get you there. So just go out & make shavings.


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## Mark Hancock (24 Sep 2019)

Hi

You appear to be trying to hollow parallel grain timber with a swept back gouge which isn't the best tool for the job and difficult to do. For small work a 45 degree fingernail grind on a spindle gouge is much better.


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## Chris152 (24 Sep 2019)

As a relative newbie, the advice so far looks good. When I started I discovered three things that helped avoid catches: engage the bevel first (I used to watch it a while to allow confidence to build!), then very gently raise the handle til the tool starts making a fine cut, keeping the bevel engaged; keep the speed lower til you're confident about not getting catches - if you do, they'll be less dramatic; keep the tips of the wings away from the wood unless you're intending to use right up to them and they're supported. Keeping speed down can create its own problems which turners here have helped me through, but as far as I'm aware those problems aren't dangerous. I've not been interested in turning goblets but from what I can see, they can be technically challenging - maybe stick with more open/ cross grain forms til you get confidence up? Just 2p worth.


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## Droogs (24 Sep 2019)

Hi Rick,
First, I'll offer my welcome (only just saw this thread). Congrats on getting in and set up both in the shed and and in the house with the baby  

I'm really surprised no-one has mentioned you having a look at and joining the Association of Woodturners of Great Britain (AWGB). They are the nation's turners group kind of thing and have training courses for members. They try to organise training all over the UK with very experienced teachers in each area. There will be a member near you who can help. They can be found below:

https://www.awgb.co.uk/

hth


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## PMP (24 Sep 2019)

Mark Hancock":3jjii1nq said:


> Hi
> 
> You appear to be trying to hollow parallel grain timber with a swept back gouge which isn't the best tool for the job and difficult to do. For small work a 45 degree fingernail grind on a spindle gouge is much better.



Hi, thanks for the tip.

I didnt make clear my earlier attempts at it were with my small fingernail 3/8" spindle gouge, that caught on the tip of the tool as the wall curved in, the bowl gouge was to see if that was the more appropriate tool, however it seemed i was on the correct path to start with, just had bad tool use that caused the first catch.

At least i saw where the issue there was.

I also found a local timber merchant who said they can provide stuff but if its smaller scale stuff, there is a local joiner carpenter nearby.

I had a walk round and asked if they sold stuff etc, the guy took me into workshop and said have a pick of what i fancy, i got 3 12" by about 8" wide and 2.5" deep planks of Beech, Iroko and Oak for a fiver!


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## Trevanion (24 Sep 2019)

PMP":2xq35y29 said:


> I had a walk round and asked if they sold stuff etc, the guy took me into workshop and said have a pick of what i fancy, i got 3 12" by about 8" wide and 2.5" deep planks of Beech, Iroko and Oak for a fiver!



Nice haul! I should've mentioned that joiners tend to have a lot of sizeable offcuts that aren't really useful for anything when it comes to the usual stuff in the joinery workshop.

Make sure you wear a good mask when you're working with Iroko (and all timbers really!). Iroko is a really irritant wood and can have different effects on different people, It's really harsh on the lungs and it gets worse the more you're exposed to it since it's a sensitizer. I know someone who refused to work with it because it gave him quite nasty rashes from the Iroko dust, but not from any other wood.


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## PMP (24 Sep 2019)

Turned a small cylinder of beech,



20190924_155349 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

just being very slow and methodical, probably too careful tbh as was hardly removing any material but rather safe than sorry.

I cut a tenon for the cylinder to put it in the chuck jaws, worked fine until i was trying to do some hollowing again, I used the 3/8" spindle gauge as an auger as i had seen on a good you tube video (guys name escapes me just now) and that worked well, just worked slowly. However when i tried to take material away starting from the outer edge of that hole moving towards the outside edge of the cylinder the tool seemed to be almost taking a powder off rather than shavings and when i applied a tiny bit more pressure it just grabbed and the wood almost came out of the chuck.



20190924_154810 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

I was working at about 1/2 of full revs of the machine (probably about 1000-1200rpm), think its because my chuck jaws dont grab the flat face of the cylinder, more the corners of each jaw grab, i dont know if its because they are poorly made or need less material circumference. shouldnt be as the chuck set was over £130 new.

The spindle gouge seems sharp and cuts wood easily when you slide the cutting edge across some wood, it just seems to skate on the beech or bits of cut wood get between the turning wood and the sharp edge so doesnt cut for a second, dont know if i am too shallow after riding the bevel and starting to get a shaving.



20190924_160605 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Early days, just hard to find a rhythm.


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## Dalboy (24 Sep 2019)

Your tenon needs to be smaller so that when the jaws grip it the form as near a circle as possible, this means that the whole of the jaw is gripping the tenon and not just the corners don't make it too small or the centre of the jaws will be the only part holding or they will not hold at all. Also, the wall of the tenon needs to be up against the jaws so be careful that you do not make too larger tenon as it needs to sit right inside the jaws

Look at this VIDEO


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Sep 2019)

You should be cutting on the pull out of the hole - that's the reason for putting it there. The side of the gouge (fingernail grind) should cut the long grain of the wood from a little way inside the hole, just as if you were planing with the grain. Once you have opened up the hole a little it becomes easier and you can go deeper into the hole. If you work across the end grain with the tip of the gouge it will snatch.


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## PMP (25 Sep 2019)

Thanks for the very informative tips and advice. helps a lot .

that video on chucks was nice and clear.


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## Mark Hancock (25 Sep 2019)

PMP":1cpm7eug said:


> 20190924_154810 by Richard Rose, on Flickr
> 
> I was working at about 1/2 of full revs of the machine (probably about 1000-1200rpm), think its because my chuck jaws dont grab the flat face of the cylinder, more the corners of each jaw grab, i dont know if its because they are poorly made or need less material circumference. shouldnt be as the chuck set was over £130 new.
> 
> ...



The first picture shows a continental style gouge which is not designed for what you attempted to do hence the catch.

The second picture shows a round bar spindle gouge which appears to be as supplied by the tool manufacturer. I'd suggest it needs re-profiling to make it more like a fingernail grind and easier to use.


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## PMP (25 Sep 2019)

Sorry i didnt clarify, its the same tool in both pics, ill look into re profiling the spindle gouge, not sure if my jig allows for it.


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## Dalboy (25 Sep 2019)

Just for interest have a look at all these VIDEOS some very good information in them


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## CHJ (25 Sep 2019)

PMP":2z4sga96 said:


> Sorry i didnt clarify, its the same tool in both pics, ill look into re profiling the spindle gouge, not sure if my jig allows for it.


The Jigs primarily only set the nose angle, how much material you remove from the side wings of the gouge are down to you and how long you dwell in any one area of the tool.

If you spend longer grinding the sides before swinging over the nose centre the wings will lower down the flute sides.
Just be aware not to reduce the nose/point dwell time too much else the tool will become too pointed.


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## PMP (25 Sep 2019)

Got on a bit better today, i ground my 3/8" spindle to have a more fingernail profile, dont know angle off top of head but i think about 40 or 38'.



20190925_113855 by Richard Rose, on Flickr




20190925_113915 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

hollowed out the small test piece and found that coming from the centre out wasnt very good, tool just seemed to give off dust and make a honing noise on the wood. I tried the different technique of pushing the tool in to the centre, riding the bevel and got much better results until i got to a point where a ridge formed and the tool couldn't get to an angle to remove the ridge. so i went back to centre to edge technique. All a bit rough and ready but worked in the end.



20190925_114639 by Richard Rose, on Flickr



20190925_122605 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

I then just played about making beads and coves for practice, then tried removing material of the piece in a way to create a stem for the "goblet".

I found it was working okay but i get the feeling the tool isnt cutting very well, even though i have what feels like a sharp edge on the tool, any more grinding the edge and it will just be removing material and past the point of having an edge??

I also feel like the tool rest isnt placed correctly, i keep it near the work and slightly below the centre line so the tool cuts on the centre, but i feel like i dont have control of the tool, like i have to keep a decent finger grasp on the metal part of the tool, where most places i read\videos say you shouldnt have to do this.

Finish on the turned surface is also quite 'fuzzy' when a lot of stuff i see online, a sharp tool should be giving a very smooth finish.



20190925_113829 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

Also not 100% on my lathe speed. The thing has lowest speed of 900rpm, and max of a bit over 3k. i tend to have it set about midway so 1200-1600 rpm, but not sure if thats too fast or too slow??

Sorry for the volume of questions, i just dont want to be getting into bad habits.


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## CHJ (25 Sep 2019)

Watch those accessory jaws, they seem to be rather a long way out to me, make sure at least two, better still 3-4 teeth are engaged in the scroll.
One of those jaws at 2000 rpm coming out can be lethal.

Trying to end grain hollow with that amount of wood overhang from the chuck without a centre steady support is really not something I would encourage for a beginner.
The wood is going to vibrate and flex and even an experienced turner is going to have to be very circumspect about tool choice and presentation taking careful note of the feedback they are getting if they are to avoid a catch or other mistake.

Try hollowing with just 50-75 mm overhang from the chuck.


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## PMP (25 Sep 2019)

Thanks for the advice. I redid the tenon before starting today and the chuck was much more closed and had much better grip . the last pic in the above post was before I redid the demon cut .

By overhang from the chuck. do you mean the length of the piece on the lathe? I.e. just work on shorter pieces for following practice?


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## Mark Hancock (25 Sep 2019)

Yes as Chas says reduce the length of the wood in the chuck.
Present the gouge with the flute pointing at around 45 degrees, place in the hole, cut on the leading edge (left of centre of the flute) and pull (rather than push) the cutting edge back towards you arcing out to the edge.


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## PMP (25 Sep 2019)

Finished my first turned item that wasn't a hacking attempt at an xmas tree 

Got a better feel for the tiny movement of the tool needed for smoother cuts and sharpened my round scraper and found it gave nice results.

Parting at the end went a bit off, tool might have just gone off proper sharp and trying to make a concave base didnt work right and more sort of polished the base. but at least its flat and sits upright without wobbling.



20190925_194939 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


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## PMP (26 Sep 2019)

I finally found a piece of steel box section to fit in the jig for my sharpening set (neded a longer bit for the angle attachment), and could i find anywhere that had it, fabricators, scrap yards, joiners etc, went to about 10 places, all no joy, then went back to B&Q and lo and behold, the exact size and almost exact length, £7!



20190926_145104 by Richard Rose, on Flickr

So set about resetting my jig and making sure it was level (wasnt 100% before) and ground my tools that work better on the jig rather than freehand on the level platform. What a difference, my skew chisel and round scraper are so much better.

So i dug out a oak bannister rail blank i had for making some basic plinths for some old competition work, and cut it to size to practice, parting tool work and basic techniques.

Even rounding off the piece was almost perfectly smooth after a couple of light passes with the skew. I then just did cuts, shapes etc, aiming to be neat and sharp, as a tester for starting to turn display plinths for selling\ to make moulds from.



20190926_145109 by Richard Rose, on Flickr



20190926_150249 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


I then got some finishing oil (just cuprinol stuff in B&Q), though found on my hunt for a bit of bar, a local firm that has a decent turning\woodwork section, so they have better selection of sanding sealer, finishing abrasive liquids etc.



20190926_155042 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


I also saw in the shop a 4 jaw scroll chuck, thats slightly bigger than mine (not much) but looks much better quality and strength. I think it fits my lathe as it has the smaller thread attachment (i.e. thinner thread, finer pitch, than the larger normal thread (i need an adaptor for the one i currently have, even though its the chuck to go with the lathe apparently lol.

Might look at this as an upgrade in the future.



20190926_125055 by Richard Rose, on Flickr


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## Simon_M (27 Sep 2019)

PMP":wyzec7hj said:


> Also not 100% on my lathe speed.


Mark Baker has an excellent book/DVD with graphs of speed for both spindle and face plate turning. His guide is RPM x inch (diameter) = 6000 or RPM x inch (diameter) = 9000. Some examples would be 1000 rpm = 6000/6" to 1500 rpm = 9000/6". His "formula" is not exact, but is based upon achieving the right "linear" cutting speed, so as the diameter increases, so does the need to reduce the RPM to maintain the same cutting speed.

However this is only a guide (or reminder) so if it's not supported by the tailstock, or the workpiece is not perfectly balanced, or it's further from the headstock, then it should be reduced further.

There is no shame in using even lower speeds and with increasing speed and workpiece size comes also increased risks. Sanding can be at a reduced speed and polishing at an even lower speed.


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## CHJ (27 Sep 2019)

*PMP*; A 'Happy', for want of any better description, lathe speed for any particular piece or tool used has many variables and I think only practise and experience leads to a FEEL for some sort of optimum.

If in doubt start off slower, if all is smooth and feels secure then speed up, be prepared to use tailstock support during bowl turning, especially on initial material removal to increase the rigidity and reduce vibration.

Speeding up can be a great advantage in reducing tool vibration by changing its frequency especially hand induced bounce, the latter can easily occur if you are applying too much bevel pressure* and commonly results in spiral ridges which compound in depth on every pass, (shear scraping is the easiest way to remove this)
*Harder spots such as end grain or knots are a primary trigger for this, blunt tooling also compounds the tool reaction. 

Going back to the 'Happy' speed, be prepared to alter this considerably for any given diameter, cutting smoothness and tool reaction can vary considerabley dependant on wood texture.

There is a Speed Guide in PDF format that I put together on my web site, based on what is considered as an optimum cutting speed for most timbers, with some additional information in an attempt give an appreciation of the risk factors involved.

There's no way I'm ever going to run a 1" spindle at 6000 RPM and approach it with a hand tool & am very circumspect about 2" at 3000RPM.


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## Simon_M (27 Sep 2019)

CHJ":2ljgpwra said:


> *PMPThere's no way I'm ever going to run a 1" spindle at 6000 RPM and approach it with a hand tool & am very circumspect about 2" at 3000RPM.*


*
Absolutely agree - the PDF uses the same "basic" formula and so the quoted speed for small diameter workpieces (1" x 6000 rpm) seem much too high especially as there's often a 4" chuck spinning nearby! At my most recent club night, I saw a demo with a sharp gouge held with one hand, making a reasonable and effortless supported cut, as the work piece was rotated slowly with the other hand - with "regular" shavings produced and a reminder, that like an ordinary plane (similar task) doesn't need to travel at high speeds either.*


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## Hendo85 (14 Nov 2019)

Hi all. I'm new to woodturning and live in keith, moray. Did the guy that started this convo in 2016 find a woodturning club? If not can you get touch and I could maybe shadow you for a bit.  thanks in advance


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