# Car Insurance Claim. What a pain.



## doorframe (29 Dec 2013)

On Boxing day (Thursday) a silly girl (about 25 yrs old) in a Fiat 500 (08) drove into the back of my 17yr old Mondeo while I was waiting to pull out onto a roundabout. She was very calm and immediately apologised and pleaded for the opportunity to settle without going through insurance. The damage didn't look any worse than a smashed bumper. I took it into my local Ford dealer on Friday and they gave me written quote for well over £1000! I called a local back street garage who quoted £400 for a cash deal, but wanted £50 for a written estimate and that would include extras such as VAT and be well over £600. I offered the girl a deal at £400. Her Dad called me later and said that's fine. He wanted me to get the repair done and then send him the bill. I told him it was cash up front and I'd give him a receipt. He told me to send the receipt and then he'd send me a cheque. Told him no way. Cash in my hand by end of Sunday or I'll be going through insurance Monday morning. No cash in my hand so it's over to the insurance in the morning.

But here's the problem. 

The car's value is around £700. It's a high spec Automatic. Mechanically perfect, with excellent bodywork, well below average mileage, and up till now, no gaffer tape on the bumpers! The insurance are going to want to write my car off and give me a pittance. For me, writing it off is not an option. I simply want it returned to pre-accident condition. I don't want to 'buy it back' from the insurance company, have to get a VIC, and be driving a Cat C or D, and have my own insurance policy loaded in the future. I just want a financial settlement and no 'Mark' against the car.

Anyone got any advise on any of this??????


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## nev (29 Dec 2013)

ask the dad to arrange the repair at a garage of his choice and he pay the bill?


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## marcros (29 Dec 2013)

You could pay the 400 yourself. If you claim, even though not your fault, your premiums will go up for the next 3 or 5 years, depending on the company. dung but true. The alternative is to source a pumper in the right colour from ebay, and get it fitted by a local garage. That will save respraying costs, etc. At least there should be plenty of mondeo parts around. That is likely the cheapest option, and may not be a bad one, whoever ends up paying.

I think, though, that you can insist on your car being repaired to pre accident condition. They may try to write it off, but cant force you to do so. I believe that it is your legal right to put you back to the position that you were in. That may well cost you more than the 400 quid.


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## n0legs (29 Dec 2013)

If it doesn't work out with the third party go to the insurance. If the assessor says they will write the car off, ask the insurance to consider a contract repair with a garage of your choice. Or the value of an agreed repair price. If there are no claims for injuries and no need/claims for a hire car the insurance may settle with you very quickly and could avoid you losing the car.
If you need any more advice please pm me as my brother in law runs his own bodyshop and this kind of thing is a normal for him and he's only a phone call away.


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## rafezetter (30 Dec 2013)

Years ago an silly person drove into the front of our car not long after an engine rebuild.. Same thing ins wanted to write off it at fraction of the value to us. We told them simply the car may have a set value according to their tables but it was mechanically perfect and writing it off just was not an option.

We kept refusing their offer until they agreed to pay for it to be repaired. Unless you have a hidden clause somewhere, I'd recommend doing the same - insurance is for YOUR protection not theirs regardless, and if they baulk tell them you will make this 'hidden but unpublished' clause of theirs public any you will also not agree to any extra clauses or riders being added to your policy as a result of this claim.

Why the hell have comprehensive cover if it doesn't do what YOU need it to?


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## devonwoody (30 Dec 2013)

Same thing happened last year to my BIL, nice car around 12 years old around 18K on the clock, spotless, wrote off at around £700, repair bill £1500, he had to find the difference.

The insurance industry need sorting out, they should not decide the motor cars value, its in their interest to create a low value figure in this sort of instance.

But owners would always want a higher figure so its a Solomon situation.


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2013)

You have my sympathies. I am going to watch this thread with interest as I didn't realise that insurance companies can be forced to repair the vehicle even if they judge it as an un-economical repair.

As far as your record goes, it should go down as a No Fault. As far as no-claims bonus goes it will depend on whether you have a protected NCB or not.

Had I known about the 'you must repair it option' then I would have insisted that my Hyundai was repaired. I am assuming that we are all correct in saying that this is how it works?


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## nev (30 Dec 2013)

I have twice argued with insurance company 'policy' and by remaining polite (just :evil: ) and insistent with a sensible argument and holding my ground (... I understand what you are saying but I do not agree with you, if there is nothing you can do please pass me on to your manager.. ) have come away victorious, if thats the correct term for getting what you should have got in the first place.


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## Harbo (30 Dec 2013)

I've taken out Gap Insurance on my new car - £200 for 5 years ( 4yrs + 1 - the first year deferred, as my Insurance Co covers that).
Supposed to pay the difference of any insurance claim value to the price of a new one?

Rod


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Dec 2013)

The "Protected No Claim" is a bit of a con - if you are paying say £200 for your insurance after a 50% ncb, and you make a claim all some companies will do is increase your premium to perhaps £800, then inform you that you will only have to pay £400 as you've protected no claims.


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## devonwoody (30 Dec 2013)

Harbo":1ch2q4r5 said:


> I've taken out Gap Insurance on my new car - £200 for 5 years ( 4yrs + 1 - the first year deferred, as my Insurance Co covers that).
> Supposed to pay the difference of any insurance claim value to the price of a new one?
> 
> Rod




Interested in that as well, please give more details?

Mind you if they have got to repair would I need it?


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## MMUK (30 Dec 2013)

doorframe":5o0slv7v said:


> The car's value is around £700. It's a high spec Automatic. Mechanically perfect, with excellent bodywork, well below average mileage, and up till now, no gaffer tape on the bumpers! The insurance are going to want to write my car off and give me a pittance. For me, writing it off is not an option. I simply want it returned to pre-accident condition. I don't want to 'buy it back' from the insurance company, have to get a VIC, and be driving a Cat C or D, and have my own insurance policy loaded in the future. I just want a financial settlement and no 'Mark' against the car.
> 
> Anyone got any advise on any of this??????




You're talking about a car that's worth naff all so why are you worried about the "stigma" of having it marked as Cat C or D? We're talking cosmetic damage here so having that label on the car is going to make pineapple all difference in the real world. If you're not likely to be selling it but running it into the ground, your comment baffles me even further!


Just put it through the insurance. The longer you leave it, the more questions are going to be asked. Technically, the insurance company should have been informed within 24 hours. The salvage value of the car won't be more than £150 I would have thought. So if you get offered your valuation of £700 and repairs cost you £400, you're still £150 up on the deal.

Oh, and as long as your insurance company can recover their costs from the third party, your premiums won't suffer at all. Mine didn't when my Alfa was rear ended with £1800 of damage. If anything, my renewal still went down.


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## MMUK (30 Dec 2013)

devonwoody":31xd2m2v said:


> Harbo":31xd2m2v said:
> 
> 
> > I've taken out Gap Insurance on my new car - £200 for 5 years ( 4yrs + 1 - the first year deferred, as my Insurance Co covers that).
> ...




GAP insurance is a con. There are so many get outs it is worse than normal insurance. The theory is that this insurance will pay the difference between what the car is worth as a write off and what you still owe on the finance. You get nothing out of it in your pocket, all it does is clear the finance and leave you without a car. In practise, it doesn't work that easy (experience talking here :evil: ). For example, if your service book is missing a MAIN DEALER stamp during the warranty period, they won't pay out. If your service book shows a service was late, even by a day or a few miles, they won't pay out.

And it only applies to BRAND NEW vehicles, not ex-demo or second hand. It can only be used if you buy your vehicle on finance.


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## marcros (30 Dec 2013)

Harbo":12hbnwwy said:


> I've taken out Gap Insurance on my new car - £200 for 5 years ( 4yrs + 1 - the first year deferred, as my Insurance Co covers that).
> Supposed to pay the difference of any insurance claim value to the price of a new one?
> 
> Rod



Gap insurance is to cover the difference between the outstanding finance and the present value isn't it. So if you borrow 15k to buy a car and when it is written off, you owe 12k on it but market value is 11, the car insurance pays out 11 and the gap insurer 1. Some policies may be different but I don't think it is a new for old type policy.


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## doorframe (30 Dec 2013)

Well, it's in the hands of the insurance company now. They want to collect the car, assess and repair, hire me a car, then return my car, then claim off the 3rd party. But, if they find it's an uneconomical repair the sh*t hit's the fan. They will make an offer to me, collect their hire car, recover their costs from the 3rd party insurance and consider it to be 'case closed'. But what about my car? I have to buy it back and collect it myself! Then if I get it repaired I have to take it for a VIC (about £40), then I'm left driving a CAT ? write off and my insurance premium goes up, as my ins comp reluctantly admitted and confirmed!! 

My ins comp gave me _her_ ins details, so I called her ins comp. She hasn't reported the accident. I told them that they can settle all this with a quick payout. Otherwise it will cost them a lot more. I've stalled the garage and the car hire comp to give her ins comp time to contact her and (hopefully) make me an offer.

While on the phone to my ins comp, he looked on Autotrader website for a price guide (which surprised me). He reckons the most they will value it at is £450. So they'll def write it off. 

All my cars have always been old bangers, and I'm always the last owner. But this one is particularly nice and I very much want to keep it for as long as possible.


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## MARK.B. (30 Dec 2013)

I do hope that you have a witness to the accident as it sounds to me that you are going to have problems getting the other driver to own up or pay up, did you exchange details/get the reg number etc ?. I had a similar incident a few years back and being a nice person i felt sorry for the young couple in the car that rear ended me and agreed to settle without going through the insurance, got a quote to fix it and they said ok,job got done £250 and then they denied all knowledge of the accident and refused to pay up. I had no witness and could not prove they were involved so it cost me and not them , what could i do ? well pipper all (legally) i was stupid and should have gone through the insurance instead of being a nice guy.

Never did get the money back  but it cost them a lot more than £250 in the end :wink: , I havent always been a nice guy :twisted: and sometimes its hard to stop old habits from re-surfacing :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Baldhead (30 Dec 2013)

I told my kids the day they passed there driving tests,

1. If your involved in an accident get a written statement from a witness if there is one 
2. Take photos before any vehicles are moved (don't concern yourself with other motorists wanting the cars moved)
3. Exchange details
4. Never agree to accepting the other party will pay for the damage, they probably won't 
5. Always inform your insurance company
6. *Go to casualty*. This is most important, if you are injured the police will have to carry out an investigation
7. Report the accident to the police
8. Let the insurance companies argue it out

I know there will be several people that will disagree with my advice, but I have attended several accidents and unfortunately been involved in a couple, and once the dust settles and people are 'advised' by others unconnected with the accident, lies will be told.

I know it won't help you now, and hopefully you will carry on driving accident free, but food for thought as they say.

Baldhead


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## Harbo (30 Dec 2013)

No Marcros this one pays out the current new price difference even if it's gone up in the meantime.

Rod


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## MMUK (30 Dec 2013)

Harbo":1pgwj84o said:


> No Marcros this one pays out the current new price difference even if it's gone up in the meantime.
> 
> Rod



http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal ... otaled.htm

I think you're misunderstanding GAP insurance Harbo.

Example:

You buy a brand new car for £15000. You lose, for argument's sake, 20% depreciation in the first month. So it's now worth £12000. You bought it on finance so you will owe more than what it's now worth after the first month. It's written off a month after you bought it. 

Lets say the insurance company value the remains at £7500 and you still owe £13250 (including interest and charges) to the finance company. This is a deficit of £5750.

The GAP insurance covers the difference between what the insurance company value the car at and the total amount of finance outstanding. So in this example, the GAP insurance will pay the £5750.

It has nothing to do with current showroom prices or market value. It's all based on the invoice price paid.


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## blackrodd (30 Dec 2013)

Baldhead":bnu0vn7c said:


> I told my kids the day they passed there driving tests,
> 
> 1. If your involved in an accident get a written statement from a witness if there is one
> 2. Take photos before any vehicles are moved (don't concern yourself with other motorists wanting the cars moved)
> ...



Wise word above, me thinks! 
Sadly, trust no one. Rodders


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## devonwoody (31 Dec 2013)

Around 40 years ago I was involved in a motor accident (two youngsters came out of a side road and collided with me) I had just put a new engine in the car (it was a taxi) and the insurance company wanted to write off at a ridiculous low value, I hired a car and twelve weeks later and many arguments they agreed to repair the car and pay the hire charges, they did not want the hire charges to go up any further. 

So if you know you are going to win, hire a car and let them sweat!

(preferably from your brother) :wink:


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## doorframe (21 Jan 2014)

Well, it's all over now. A week ago Tesco Insurance called to tell me they've written it off, and they've instructed a salvage agent to collect it within the next 3 days so I'd better remove any personal belongings. The offer was £635. The valuation is fine, but I told them they go forth if they thought they were taking my car. They were also not the slightest bit interested that I had a quote to repair for £400. After a few very heated phone calls they generously allowed me to 'buy' my own car for £60. I wonder how much it would have been if they'd managed to remove it from my possession. 

So, the cheque has arrived for £575, along with a couple of letters. One tells me I need to get a VIC, or I can't get a new log book. Don't need a new log book, so who cares. The next owner will be the scrappy (when the time comes). The other letter tells me I can't use the car if it's in an un-roadworthy condition. A cracked bumper isn't quite the end of the world so again, who cares. 

I've had a verbal assurance (supposedly recorded phone call) telling me the renewal (due Feb 8th) premium, and it's pretty much the same as last year. We'll see if that changes on Feb 8. 

The only other contact I had was from their legal department, who called at least 5 times trying to get me and swmbo (and my son) to claim for whiplash, stress and more.

And yesterday some parasite called with what appears to be a new scam. The conversation went like this...

*Parasite... Hello Mr Doorframe. I'm so sorry to hear about your minor accident on the 26th Dec.

Me... Who are you?

Parasite... Please can you confirm you are Mr Doorframe.

Me... No. Who are you?

Parasite... I have come good news for you. Please can you confirm you are Mr Doorframe.

Me... No. This is your last chance, who are you?

Parasite... The other party's insurance company have 3 cheques for you. One for each member of your family. There is a new law that says because you are the innocent party you are entitled to compensation. I can arrange for you to receive the cheques. They are already written out and just need to be released. For a small fee I can provide this service.

Me... Go forth you parasite.*


He was certainly English, with a Northern accent. Anyone else heard anything like this?


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## marcros (21 Jan 2014)

you may want to check the VIC bit, or it could bite you:

https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-identity-check/overview 

doesnt look too onerous though.

good result I think.


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## Baldhead (22 Jan 2014)

doorframe":tk6fb95j said:


> Well, it's all over now. A week ago Tesco Insurance called to tell me they've written it off, and they've instructed a salvage agent to collect it within the next 3 days so I'd better remove any personal belongings. The offer was £635. The valuation is fine, but I told them they go forth if they thought they were taking my car. They were also not the slightest bit interested that I had a quote to repair for £400. After a few very heated phone calls they generously allowed me to 'buy' my own car for £60. I wonder how much it would have been if they'd managed to remove it from my possession.
> 
> So, the cheque has arrived for £575, along with a couple of letters. One tells me I need to get a VIC, or I can't get a new log book. Don't need a new log book, so who cares. The next owner will be the scrappy (when the time comes). The other letter tells me I can't use the car if it's in an un-roadworthy condition. A cracked bumper isn't quite the end of the world so again, who cares.
> 
> ...



Exactly the same has happened to me. Several years ago an ambulance reversed into me and cracked the front bumper, I was in the car at the time, well over a year later I too got a phone call along the same lines as your call, I was told there was £1500 in a holding account, all I had to do was say I had a couple of sleepless nights, when I told the lady on the phone what I thought about her she hung up. I got another phone call several months later, exactly the same, again I told the lady what I thought of them, again they hung up. I wish I had gone along with them because I would have found out who it was ringing me so I could expose them for what they are.........pineapples, pineapples, pineapples, pineapples etc etc. no wonder insurance prices are going up, I wonder how many people have 'succumb' and played along for a few pieces of silver.

Baldhead

PS pleased you managed to keep your 'Write Off', hopefully you will have many more years of motoring with it, then YOU can decide when it's written off.


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## JustBen (22 Jan 2014)

My dad once had an old Opal Manta which was written off twice.
(1st was a cracked front spoiler, 2nd was a cracked rear bumper)

He bought it for £250, got £500 each time from the insurance and then sold it for £600.

He's got more jam than Hartley!


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## mind_the_goat (22 Jan 2014)

My daughter recently had a minor accident, mutual dented bumpers. Insurance company was involved and the other party received a quote for £600 to repair the damage. In the meantime we offered to pay for damage, as it looked minor. Another quote was given, £60 and the repair involved use of a hairdryer to soften and reshape the bumper. 
The company that gave the first quote tried to keep the job by claiming they had already ordered a new part, even though no authority had been given, words were exchanged.
It still took a while to get the threat of a clam off the insurers records, but we did manage to retain the NCB.
So, one of the reasons insurance premiums are so high is because insurance companies allow themselves to be taken to the cleaners by the garages they recommend. This makes no sense to me at all.


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## RogerS (25 Jan 2014)

Glad you got it sorted, doorframe.

One question, though. Did we ever resolve in this thread whether or not one can insist an insurance company repairs a car even though they deem it 'uneconomical to repair' and want to write-it off ?

This issue seems to me so grossly unfair. You could have just spent £1k on new tyres and a repair and then some eejit reverses into it...the insurance company want to write-it off and give you £1600 so you are seriously out of pocket given what you have just spent on it.


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## devonwoody (25 Jan 2014)

RogerS":2cc7hwc0 said:


> Glad you got it sorted, doorframe.
> 
> One question, though. Did we ever resolve in this thread whether or not one can insist an insurance company repairs a car even though they deem it 'uneconomical to repair' and want to write-it off ?
> 
> This issue seems to me so grossly unfair. You could have just spent £1k on new tyres and a repair and then some eejit reverses into it...the insurance company want to write-it off and give you £1600 so you are seriously out of pocket given what you have just spent on it.




My view on this is the same.

If I had a problem again and I knew I was not at fault in anyway, I would do what I did thirty years ago.

Sue the other party personally and only deal with that person, let her then send your claim on to her insurers but only deal with her and only accept the situation that returns you to the condition before the accident. 

You cannot loose can you, even if you go to court. (In the meantime hire a car if yours is unroadworthy, it don't arf make them move quicker)


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## MMUK (25 Jan 2014)

I've made some serious money buying cars back from insurance companies at scrap value. Don't knock it.


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## doorframe (25 Jan 2014)

Roger, I tried to get them to agree to a repair at £400 right from the start. It was very clear that they had one thing only on their agenda.... WRITE IT OFF!!!! But what they also wanted was to remove the car from my grips. They wanted to take it away for the damage assessment. I point blank refused to allow this as I knew I would never see it again or I'd have to pay over the odds to get it back. I made them assess it on my driveway. The guy who assessed it said the condition and mileage and minor damage were such that he could see no reason not to repair, so he'd like to arrange the flat-back to take the car then and there. I still refused to let it go out of my sight until the ins comp had confirmed they were going to repair, not write off. 

I think the way it works is this...

1. Get the car away from the owner.
2. Get a hire car to the owner.
3. Write it off and sell the salvage to a salvage company that they have a regular deal with. (I can get minimum £300 for a drive-able banger, so why can't they). If it's CAT C it doesn't have to be crushed.
4. Pay the settlement.
5. Charge the 3rd party ins comp for all costs including bloated car hire charge, bloated collection charge, bloated admin charge, bloated any other charge they can think of.
6. 'UP' the poor sods premium and score a few extra £'s into the bargain.

They obviously won't make a fortune out of my old banger, but if they do this for every old banger it must add up nicely. If they just paid the £400 repair bill what do they earn from the 3rd party?

The most annoying thing is that this was MY ins comp. They were supposed to be acting in MY best interest.... weren't they? At all stages I felt I was the guilty party, not the poor innocent sod doing nothing wrong. The saving grace in all this is that we're only talking about an old banger, and a few hundred £'s either way. If I'd been driving an expensive car (that'll be the day!!) I expect I would have been seriously peed off!!!

So, NO. It appears you can't make them repair back to pre-accident condition. You can only accept the settlement and and repair it yourself. I came out of it OK, but that may not always be the case.


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## devonwoody (25 Jan 2014)

So now you can understand why innocent drivers claim whiplash, they get the amount they should have got to repair their car.


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## Baldhead (25 Jan 2014)

doorframe":4112x21b said:


> The most annoying thing is that this was MY ins comp. They were supposed to be acting in MY best interest.... weren't they? At all stages I felt I was the guilty party, not the poor innocent sod doing nothing wrong.


Insurance companies do not act in the customers best interest, they look after themselves first, if that means screwing you the customer, then so be it. I don't think for one minute they would be bothered if you took your custom elsewhere.

Baldhead


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## marcros (25 Jan 2014)

i suspect that you cant necessarily make the insurance company repair it- they will stick to things like "its aganst company policy", "it isn't economical", "the computer says xyz", they are a company, there to make a profit. However, beneath the insurance, the driver at fault will have a legal responsibility to cover your losses. You may have to do pretty much as devon woody said. You dont *have* to claim off the other party's insurance, they just have it in place to pay out in case of accident, ie it is for their benefit, not yours. The same as you may have a savings account in case you need house repairs. Insurance is a legal requirement, and is set up so that for most it is the first point of contact.

in theory, you could still claim off an uninsured driver, although you are likely to find that they had no money, hence no insurance. Also, in theory, your car could be half crushed, and you would be entitled i law that it was repaired to the same standard as it was vefore the accident. Most people would be reasonable in that case, and accept that it wasnt sensible to repair such a car, unless it was a one of a kind vintage ferrari etc. Then, no doubt it becomes a bit more difficult.


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## doorframe (8 Feb 2014)

Well, today was Insurance renewal day. The quote they gave me, £234, was valid until close of business today. 
So I called them up only to be told, "Sorry, you can't renew as we haven't received a copy of your _new_ MOT". And if it's not emailed to them today I'll need a new quote. But they won't give me a new quote till they see the new MOT. 
At no time in any correspondence have they mentioned I will need a new MOT before they will re-insure. 
So, down to the MOT while-you-wait. And what a long wait it was. The whole world was out getting MOT's today.
Luckily the old girl flew through with just an advisory about the wishbones. 

It's ruined my plans for the weekend but at least this sorry saga now seems at an end. =D>


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## marcros (8 Feb 2014)

A full ending then, and what you wanted. Have you got the v5 through yet or does it not need one?


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## doorframe (9 Feb 2014)

I've still got the complete original V5. They did try to get it from me earlier on in the 'negotiations' when they were so determined to take the car. Shouldn't be a problem getting Tax with it, but I'll find out in October! If I ever sell it it'll need a new V5 after a VIC, but it's never being sold until it goes to the big breakers yard in the sky.


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