# Cyclone Flat Pack Kit



## Chems (25 Jul 2011)

Are there any takers out there that would like a cyclone of similar size to the one I have shown in below made up in 3mm plastic CNC cut for people to assemble themselves? Would basically require some bending and gluing. 




About few people interested on the other side so could make it a good number to do a batch.


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## Tusses (25 Jul 2011)

I'm interested in making my own cyclone, so this looks interesting depending on price / performance etc etc.

any more details ?

How much air do we need to shift for this design etc etc


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## Chems (25 Jul 2011)

I'm using it with the new 3hp SIP extractor, I think the more the better really as Karl had this cyclone before me and said his Axminster 2hp extractor struggled a little.


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## PeterBassett (25 Jul 2011)

I'd be interested depending on price. How dificult would the bending process be?


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## Richard D (25 Jul 2011)

I'm definitely interested.


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## wallace (25 Jul 2011)

I'd be interested depending on price


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## Jamesc (25 Jul 2011)

I'm interested too, again dependant on price

James


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## SammyQ (26 Jul 2011)

Moi aussi. Spondulicks?

Sam


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## Froggy (26 Jul 2011)

I'm also interested, but as well as price I will have to consider getting it France, but I'm a definate maybe :lol:


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2011)

Chems...where did you get your 'oil' drum from?

All the ones I can find don't have a removeable lid


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## Tusses (28 Jul 2011)

RogerS":mu4h4shg said:


> Chems...where did you get your 'oil' drum from?
> 
> All the ones I can find don't have a removeable lid



I was thinking that too.

But then I thought it should be pretty easy to make it removeable. or one out of MDF or something


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

You can get those drums on ebay. search for <storage drums>

Bob


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

I'd suggest that the cyclone should terminate in a short length of flexible hose which in turn connects to the collection drum. In that way the the cyclone can be permanently mounted say on a wall and the drum readily removed for emptying.
Works well on mine.
The cyclone was the first thing to be installed in my workshop - it is a trifle more full now!







Bob


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## Chems (28 Jul 2011)

Going to look into the cost of it over the weekend. The drum came with mine, I like Bobs idea of having the cyclone seprate from the drum allowing emptying. 

Before I got mine I was looking at making one and did find a drum supplier, I think the link is on my other computer and I'll hunt it down next week.


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

http://tinyurl.com/3l55pxa
for 60litre drums - similar size to my photo above
or
45gallon for the serious waste generators!
http://tinyurl.com/3shjsrb

hth

Bob


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2011)

Thanks, Bob.


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## TEO (28 Jul 2011)

9fingers said:


> I'd suggest that the cyclone should terminate in a short length of flexible hose which in turn connects to the collection drum. In that way the the cyclone can be permanently mounted say on a wall and the drum readily removed for emptying.
> Works well on mine.
> The cyclone was the first thing to be installed in my workshop - it is a trifle more full now!
> 
> ...


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2011)

I got a quote for delivery to Malvern for two 45 gallon barrels - the second link Bob gave - but I only need one. Anyone close by fancy sharing the delivery charge £30.90 inc VAT ?


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## cutting42 (28 Jul 2011)

I am interested in a flat pack cyclone as well. Thanks for looking at this.


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

Toby, 

I bought my cyclone from Barry Burgess's widow after his untimely death a few years back. Fortunately, all Barry's post and photo hosting still survive and can be seen here cyclone-continued-t10825.html
It does not follow an established design but simply fits together items of suitable size that Barry had to hand or obtained readily at the time. He and I were in email contact on the topic but all the work was his.
The cyclone is a cut down 60 litre drum with a single turn air ramp wrapped around the 6" air outlet. The dust inlet is a short length of rectangular kitchen extractor ducting fitted to the ramp and the other end moulded into a 100mm round pipe.
The cone is an Ikea flowerpot followed by a short piece of 6" flexi and another 60 litre drum.
The blower is a 3hp 14" charnwood unit removed from one of their conventional extractors and fitted with a square to round converter by Barry
I took his component parts and simply re-arranged them to make a more compact arrangement to fit in my workshop to make this set up.

http://s115.photobucket.com/albums/n313 ... i_0217.flv

Since that video was taken, I have added a 9th inlet but apart from that is is as shown and works to my complete satisfaction.

I don't want to hijack Chems project thread so if more information is required then I think we should start another thread.

Bob


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## Tusses (28 Jul 2011)

for the drum... two mdf circles and some bendy ply ?


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2011)

Tusses":1f4rc2ho said:


> for the drum... two mdf circles and some bendy ply ?



or a tenner for an oil drum!


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

Tusses":3s2qnx85 said:


> for the drum... two mdf circles and some bendy ply ?



Bear in mind that the collection drum is under suction and if it leaks, the sawdust goes straight into the filter. Avoiding this is the whole objective of the cyclone.
So how brew collection drums need to re-seal reliably after each emptying.

Bob


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## Tusses (28 Jul 2011)

9fingers":3osqv0ti said:


> Tusses":3osqv0ti said:
> 
> 
> > for the drum... two mdf circles and some bendy ply ?
> ...


some kind of gasket , out of window draft excluder for instance ... the vacuum would help pull the seal tight.

We are wood workers aren't we ? :?


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

Tusses":1tt2qil8 said:


> 9fingers":1tt2qil8 said:
> 
> 
> > Tusses":1tt2qil8 said:
> ...



Yes indeed - it is perfectly doable but wanted non cyclone owners to know about the potential for a problem.

Bob


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## Tusses (28 Jul 2011)

9fingers":1n2736k9 said:


> Yes indeed - it is perfectly doable but wanted non cyclone owners to know about the potential for a problem.
> 
> Bob



I guess if you use a hose between a wall mounted cyclone and the bin, it really doesn't need to be round. That would make it easier to make, and more efficient use of space .


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2011)

Tusses":3seaqasg said:


> 9fingers":3seaqasg said:
> 
> 
> > Yes indeed - it is perfectly doable but wanted non cyclone owners to know about the potential for a problem.
> ...



Just make sure though that whatever bag you are going to decant the stuff into matches the total periphery DAMHIKT.

And don't...please don't...think 'Wouldn't it be a good idea to put a clear plastic front on the box so I can see when it's getting full"...again DAMHIKT


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## Froggy (28 Jul 2011)

Hi Everyone. Having spent hours on the net (a couple of hours on Bill Pentz site alone!) looking into cyclones I now understand the principles of separation, but what I don’t understand is the ‘simple stuff’ – like where is the ‘dirty air’ sucked in from? From the machines directly or from the air? And how is it ‘sucked in’? Is it the ‘Blower’ that forces the air downwards in the cyclone or an independent unit? If it’s an independent unit where does that ‘sit’ in the flow of things? If it’s the ‘Blower’ then how does that work? Surely sawdust and chippings can’t go ‘through’ the blower or that would clog it up? :?: :?: :?: :?: 
As you can see despite my efforts to learn from the net I’m still hopelessly lost. Could someone please draw an idiots diagram from machine to clean air blown outside for myself and any other lost souls out there who are struggling with this? #-o #-o 

T.I.A. Froggy


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## 9fingers (28 Jul 2011)

The blower is a misnomer in that the air intake to the blower is connected to the top of the cyclone so it sucks.

When it is working properly this is virtually clean air and just needs a fine filter to remove the last little bit of dust.

The dirty air comes from the machines and the sawdust/chipping drop out the bottom of the cyclone.

Somewhere on Bill pentz's rabbit warren/website should be a video of a transparent cyclone working.

Bob


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## RogerS (29 Jul 2011)

Froggy think of a vacuum cleaner. The motor is the equivalent of your 'blower'...a misnomer if ever there was one. The air comes out of your vacuum cleaner back into the room and usually filtered by virtue of the bag inside or maybe even a fine dust filter. That's the equivalent of the fine filters we're talking about.

Now turn to the hose. This would plug into the cyclone unit at the top. Then the other hole in the cyclone would attach to a pipe that was connected to your machines. 

As the dust and chips are drawn in from your machines and into the cyclone, the design of the cyclone makes the dust and chips swirl round and as they do this they lose energy and 'fall' out of the airstream and out of the bottom of the cyclone into your bin (collector). That leaves just the air (in an ideal cyclone) to go into your vacuum cleaner.

That's the principle...only we use a large diameter hose and a large motor to create some suck...because with chippings a large flow of air is what is needed...referred to as a HVLP (high volume low pressure) system. The vacuum cleaner is the other way round (LVHP) and more suited to smaller diameter pipes...and comes into it's own when used to connect to things like portable sanders. If you tried a vacuum cleaner on the planer/thicknesser then chances are the pipe would get clogged up pretty quickly.


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## knappers (29 Jul 2011)

As a result of me building this...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/i-m-feeling-the-squeeze-t51183.html?hilit=cyclone

I have the drum that I got with the cyclone available if anybody wants it. It has a clip on lid, and already has the hole cut in the top to suit a cyclone. Basically identical to the one in Chem's pics. It's in Leicester - Don't really want anything for it, unless anybody has anything they want to swap...
Si.


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## RogerS (29 Jul 2011)

Knappers, I'm interested in the drum. What size is it and what's the size of the hole, please?

Thanks

Roger


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## knappers (29 Jul 2011)

Standard oil drum size. 88cm tall, 60cm dia. Hole is 150mm, with 6 bolt holes around it to suit Dust Deputy flange.

Got an old tool you longer need for swapsies? If not, don't worry.

Si.


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## studders (29 Jul 2011)

They want £40+ for del to me. :shock: 
So that's that idea out the window.


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## 9fingers (29 Jul 2011)

studders":201b1faw said:


> They want £40+ for del to me. :shock:
> So that's that idea out the window.



Think of a business near you that has their materials delivered in such containers and then go on the scrounge. A few quid in the tea fund normally works wonders!

Bob


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## studders (29 Jul 2011)

Good idea Bob, there's an Industrial estate not too far away, will go a huntin' .


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## RogerS (29 Jul 2011)

Well there's Morgan cars made in Malvern...I reckon that they must use a LOT of oil drums ...LOL...actually it's a good idea.

Knappers, thanks, but I'll pass.


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## Froggy (29 Jul 2011)

Thanks for the help guys. I think I've got it now!!


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## Dibs-h (29 Jul 2011)

Find an independent VW\Audi specialist - they get the PD oil delivered in drums. Probably give them away for peanuts, if not free.

Dibs


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## TEO (29 Jul 2011)

Thanks Bob, I'll have a look.
Cheers,
T


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## knappers (29 Jul 2011)

No problem Roger.

We get through lots of oil at work, but unfortunately, it's all delivered in drums with a removable plug, rather than a clip on lid. I suspect many potential sources of drums may be the same.

Si


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## 9fingers (29 Jul 2011)

Try the food industry. 
Lots of fruit pulp is imported in 60 and 120 litre plastic drums. Some have the circular clamp ring as used in the steel barrels and are fine, others have a coarse screw threaded lid which are a right bast ard to take on and off by hand as you need two arms like a gorilla to grip the barrel and another two to turn the lid DAMHIKT!!

Bob


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## Tusses (29 Jul 2011)

ok ... I've been doing some more thinking (dangerous ! )

how about wall mounted cyclone with wall mounted sealed bin beneath,

in the bottom of the bin is a dust chute that you open to empty into a bin bag, then close and carry on


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## 9fingers (30 Jul 2011)

Should work provided the dust chute seal can be kept clean when emptying so that it reseals.
It will end up quite tall though and might not suit every workshop.

Bob


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## The Bear (30 Jul 2011)

Bob

What size ducting are you using from the cyclone to the blower and for the runs from the cyclone to the machines?

Mark


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## 9fingers (30 Jul 2011)

Hi Mark,

Cyclone-blower and blower to filters is 6" flexi. All the fixed ducting is 110mm soil pipe and fittings, 100mm blast gates (which glue in nicely to the bore of 110mm soil pipe with PU foam adhesive), 100mm flexi to machines only reducing to smaller hose if needed for the minimum length practical. 
Small bore hose friction really costs a lot in air flow/suction terms.

hth

Bob


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## Shrubby (30 Jul 2011)

Oildrums are a lot of work .Look for 'Open top drums' with a lever band fastener. I bought some 15 years ago from a company shipping goods and chattels to Africa and the Caribbean - they had 3 different sizes outside the shop,Clean and cheap


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2011)

How heavy is one of these oil drums filled with chips and dust? Sounds to me like a two man job to up end the contents into a plastic bag. 

Or can you stick a plastic bag inside? Surely it gets sucked up into the cyclone? I think I remember reading someone advocating a bleed pipe (like a bit of garden hose) from the suck side of everything to the space between the bag and the oil drum to equalise the pressure and so prevent bag-suck but thin enough not to affect the overall suck...where you need it.


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## Deejay (31 Jul 2011)

Morning all

Speaking of drums, this held casting slip for pottery. Steel band to seal the lid and a couple of handles. Worth asking at local potteries / clubs. 

A bit small for the pro's but big enough for me.

Cheers

Dave


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## 9fingers (31 Jul 2011)

RogerS":2i6d3hs6 said:


> How heavy is one of these oil drums filled with chips and dust? Sounds to me like a two man job to up end the contents into a plastic bag.
> 
> Or can you stick a plastic bag inside? Surely it gets sucked up into the cyclone? I think I remember reading someone advocating a bleed pipe (like a bit of garden hose) from the suck side of everything to the space between the bag and the oil drum to equalise the pressure and so prevent bag-suck but thin enough not to affect the overall suck...where you need it.



No the bag does not get sucked up if the drum is sealed. I use a bin liner in mine all the time now.

A 60 litre drum of shavings & dust is easily managed; A 200litre one might be a little less easy!
However, a modest timber prep session at the start of the project could easily fill a 60 litre drum.
Another reason to have a short length of clear flexi between cyclone and drum so you can see when it is full.

Bob


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2011)

Thanks Bob. I like the hose separation idea. Any recommendations as to the best place to buy it? Axminster want an arm and a leg and an eBay search only gives opaque hose.


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## 9fingers (31 Jul 2011)

RogerS":29rq2v58 said:


> Thanks Bob. I like the hose separation idea. Any recommendations as to the best place to buy it? Axminster want an arm and a leg and an eBay search only gives opaque hose.




Roger,

I have a scrap 200mm long x 150 diameter, I can send you which is just about enough to go between cyclone and bin - just PM me your address.

Or there is 5m of clear on ebay item 120755091804. That seller is obviously trading in the stuff and might be prepared to sell you a bit less.

Bob


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2011)

9fingers":lnyrregz said:


> RogerS":lnyrregz said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Bob. I like the hose separation idea. Any recommendations as to the best place to buy it? Axminster want an arm and a leg and an eBay search only gives opaque hose.
> ...



That's very kind of you, Bob, but I'll need a bit more than that as my cyclone needs a 6" length to the extractor as well.


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## PeterBassett (11 Sep 2011)

Have there been any developments on this Chems?


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## Chems (11 Sep 2011)

Yes, first prototypes been made and tested, doing a run of the full set to get pictures and assembly instructions before opening up the floor. There will be 4 sizes, 150mm, 100mm, 63mm and 50mm each corresponding to the ducting size and there size in relation to that. 

As a really rough guide on price as it hasn't all been worked out yet it will range from roughly £100/110 for 150mm down to £50-60 for the 50mm version probably less but still got a few prices to work out. 

And a moving pictures speaks a thousands words, heres the 100mm version running, the final versions will be all clear including the top, and it looks a bit messy around the bottom because I mitre fast'ed it to my drum for quick testing. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5AuItKvA0U

Prefer if the video was kept just here amongst close UKW friends, I'll get a decent one done before proper launch.


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## 9fingers (11 Sep 2011)

Looks good - especially as there appears to be no air ramp.

How much dust is going into the vac/blower?

Bob


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## Chems (11 Sep 2011)

0, the extractor is new an still looks it, I'm going to get some good images of that so people dont rely on my word for it.


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## The Bear (12 Sep 2011)

I'm impressed also. 
What is the construction process? When its rolled what happens to the seam, does it get in the way of a smooth airflow round the cyclone?

Mark


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## PeterBassett (12 Sep 2011)

Hi, that looks great. I'm still a little worried about the bending process however. I assume it would still all be supplied flat? How would we go about it?

Pete


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## Chems (12 Sep 2011)

Its smooth on the inside so as not to disturb the air flow, bending and assembling is very easy, takes about 5 mins and its best to have 2 people unless you want to enlist the help of some clamps which could be done. It will be supplied flat, and because of that it looks like its going to be fairly cheap to ship, something I was a bit worried about.


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## PeterBassett (12 Sep 2011)

Is it bent cold, warm any tools needed?


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## Chems (12 Sep 2011)

Its just bent cold, no tools required and all the fixings required will come with the pack.


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## beech1948 (12 Sep 2011)

I'm quite interested in this so have been following this thread eagerly.

When you next construct a prototype or first product version why not take many pictures of the process. I like many others am keen to see what skills and what amount of difficulty there is in constructing the final product prior to purchase.

I think that I can believe that it will work OK more easily than imagining any difficulties in the build it process issues.

I am also concerned about the costs of any final filters to return air to the workshop. In the US these are a reasonable price but in the UK we are looking at prices of £400++ per filter from my recent research. For me its a question of returning clean air to the shop and also keeping my heating bills down as far as possible.

Alan


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## Chems (12 Sep 2011)

The reason I'm running through a full set this week is to take pictures and video of the assembly, I have got a few pictures of it going together but not worth posting, need a decent camera to get good pictures of something see through. 

Regarding filters, I've been using the prototype with my chip extractor bags as the filters and there is no visible sign of the fine stuff escaping, none of that fine film around the extractor after use. But you can get 1 mircon cartridge filters for a lot less than £400. Such as this one:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod838008/

The us format of the cyclone, extractor motor and filters been one unit, I don't think that will catch on here as people already have extractor units, people would rather put a cyclone between the existing extractor and couple that with a fine filter on the extractor. The outcome is the same, nice clean air. 


But if you can wait just a week or two more I'll have a full load of pictures and videos for you to have a look at.


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## beech1948 (12 Sep 2011)

Sure I can wait. After all it's you doing all the hard work.

The filters issue is partially resolved in that I find you can buy Donaldson Torit filters at about £70 each from several sources. Still expensive. Result will depend upon how many might be needed.

I guess I need to do some more thinking and research.

As you say many will want to add in a cyclone before their DC system. My problem is that I don;'t think my current 2HP DC will be sufficient and that I will need to move to a 3HP or even 4HP if one is available. 

I'm uncertain if getting rid of my current DC and buying a new one is a good idea or if I need to go with an "all-in-one" cyclone system even if I make it myself.
Alan


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## philb88 (12 Sep 2011)

Interested if the price is right! I have been looking at the Axminster cyclones for a while but the initial cost is the stalling point!!

Would probably be looking at 0.5 micron or possibly 0.2 micron if you work with MDF or fine dusty woods for the filters, would be my prefernece anyway!

Eagerly awaiting the Updates!


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## tisdai (12 Sep 2011)

Same here, interested if the price is right, Think that goes with a lot of things now sadly.  

Cheers

Dave


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## 9fingers (12 Sep 2011)

These guys http://www.rbindustrial.co.uk/ used to have an ebay presence and sell quite reasonably priced filters but I can't find them on the bay at the moment.
Whether they would be interested in supplying filters to go with Chems cyclone project in exchange for some forum publicity I don't know.
Whilst I'm following this thread with interest, I'm not in the market for a cyclone kit as I already have a Burgess/IKEA Cyclone from this forum many years ago now although the thread was still here last time I looked.

Bob


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## paultnl (12 Sep 2011)

Add me as another interested customer.


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## Chems (12 Sep 2011)

Regarding price is right, I said this earlier encase it was missed:



Chems":36rgnm0p said:


> As a really rough guide on price as it hasn't all been worked out yet it will range from roughly £100/110 for 150mm down to £50-60 for the 50mm version probably less but still got a few prices to work out.



And I'm pretty sure that it will be around those prices once I have taken everything into consideration, as with all these things, the large amount of orders the cheaper I can do it with regards buying materials in bulk, so for the first major run I may try and coral a load of orders up together then do a run.

So roughly:

150mm - £100-£120 with P&P (150mm is a bit of a monster at 890mm tall I can't imagine a lot of us will want it except the few pro shop owners) 
100mm - £80-£90 
63mm - £60-75
50mm - £40-55

I'll also be offering discount for people who want to buy a smaller one for their vac and a larger one for the main extractor as it saves loads in boxes as each size has a custom made box to ship in. 

The best bit, with it been flat pack and relativity light, the people who asked for it to be sent across to europe, I looked up prices and its not much more expensive than UK delivery which opens the market up a bit. 

Appreciate all the feedback thanks.


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## white_sw (13 Sep 2011)

i'd be very interested in the 100mm version.

ta,
sam


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## Froggy (13 Sep 2011)

Chems":1cqb9pn9 said:


> The best bit, with it been flat pack and relativity light, the people who asked for it to be sent across to europe, I looked up prices and its not much more expensive than UK delivery which opens the market up a bit.
> 
> Appreciate all the feedback thanks.



I was interested anyway, but now I'm very interested!! =D> 
As I have a large barn that I work in I will need the 150mm version, but what size (hp) extractor will I need to accompany that?
I may also consider a smaller vac version as well, bearing in mind what you said.
My biggest worry is whether or not I'm capable of putting it all together as an efficent system (homer) 
When are you coming over again Bob? :roll:


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## Chems (13 Sep 2011)

I think for the 150mm version you'll need at least 3hp if not more ideally. I have a friend who's a joiner and he has a multibag 3phase system must be somewhere around 4-6hp, he's the sort of person I'm guessing will be after the 150mm version.


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## 9fingers (13 Sep 2011)

Froggy":3hg86dbt said:


> When are you coming over again Bob? :roll:



Hi Tim,

I did not get holidays organised this year :roll: Janice has been all over the place (New York, Antigua, Paris (soon)) since we were with you in May10 - I've stayed home in the workshop (cue violins!)

Early next year we are planning to go to NZ and hopefully get over to France either May or Sept 2012. We also need to leave the country to get away from the festering Olympics but France will be too hot for my taste then.

Either way it will possibly too long to wait for cyclone building :lol: 

As for HP needed- another dart in the board for you. 
I have 3hp 2850 rpm 350mm blower with 150mm inlet driving a Burgess Cyclone with 100mm in and 150mm outlet.
Barry built his cyclone around what was available to him at the time rather than a huge amount of science but it works and that is all we need.

I suggest to keep an eye out at Vide Grenier** events for something at least as big and make sure it has a a 2 pole (2850RPM) motor.

Cheers

Bob

** Similar to UK car boot sales - more literally "Empty Attic"


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## Froggy (13 Sep 2011)

Thanks for the info guys. I'll have to keep an out for a 3 hp blower. Although I'm on single phase so will need a single phase motor, so I would imagine anything bigger than 3hp will be hard to find. 

Shame you won't be over for a while Bob, but at the rate I'm progressing with my workshop the jo could still be sat there waiting to be done next year :!:


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## 9fingers (13 Sep 2011)

I'm sure that I have read here that someone successfully cascaded two blowers to get higher airflow so rather than change a blower for a larger one, two could be used instead - possibly with delayed start for the second one to avoid huge starting currents on single phase supplies.

Bob


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## philb88 (14 Sep 2011)

Are all the connections the same size? So on a 100mm, is the inlet, outlet and connection to the bin all 100mm. And the same for all the other diameters?


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## Chems (14 Sep 2011)

The inlet and outlet are 100mm, the outlet to the bin for the 100mm model is 150mm and the outlet and inlet for the 150mm cyclones is 150mm of course and the outlet to the bin is 230mm. 

Main run is going through tomorrow, so will have more pictures after the weekend. . . hopefully!


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## tisdai (14 Sep 2011)

Looking forward to it,


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## philb88 (14 Sep 2011)

Chems":1nkciuua said:


> The inlet and outlet are 100mm, the outlet to the bin for the 100mm model is 150mm and the outlet and inlet for the 150mm cyclones is 150mm of course and the outlet to the bin is 230mm.
> 
> Main run is going through tomorrow, so will have more pictures after the weekend. . . hopefully!



Thanks! Just the info I needed. Now I'm off to investiagte the cost difference between 100mm and 150mm ducting, flexible and fixed, could be fun!


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## Chems (15 Sep 2011)

Little update, got all the kits cut today and will take lots of decent photos of what's in the kit and how to put them together over the weekend so should be ready for your consumption and orders early next week. The 150mm one is a monster at 900mm tall 600mm wide at the top!


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## paultnl (15 Sep 2011)

What are the overall dimensions of the 63mm please.


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## Chems (15 Sep 2011)

The 63 model is 380mm tall by 270mm wide at the top.


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## Tusses (15 Sep 2011)

can you post up the required HP / CFM or whatever for each size please.

I only have a little extractor, so would like to know what it would match up with  

Ta

Rich


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## paultnl (15 Sep 2011)

Chems":2d1yicz0 said:


> The 63 model is 380mm tall by 270mm wide at the top.


Please count me as an order.


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## Chems (15 Sep 2011)

I'm no expert but 2-3hp for 100mm one and 4hp plus for 150mm. I have an image to help:


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## Tusses (15 Sep 2011)

mine looks like the Jet in your image, but a different brand.
I'm sure it's only about 400w which is just over 1/2 HP 

I am surprised at the stated HP requirements with a view to mine being 400w !


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## Chems (15 Sep 2011)

I don't know about your jet but the one pictured is 1200w and would work ok with the 100mm model I'd think. Can't imagine yours is 400w because the smallest axy is 750w. If yours is low power go for 63mm.


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## Tusses (16 Sep 2011)

mine isn't a jet , but is in that style ... blower and top and bottom bags.
Its a Rexon I think. I'll check the details today.

I'd be thinking about my lecky bill with 2 or 3 HP blowers going all day !


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## paultnl (16 Sep 2011)

If anyone else is going for the 63mm, Rutlands have a ducting kit on sale at the moment http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/DKL31


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## Chems (17 Sep 2011)

Thats a good deal there.

Made up the 50mm and 150mm version tonight, the 50mm been the hardest as its got the tightest bend but manged it easily on my own. Photographing and putting together the instructions over the weekend.


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## tisdai (17 Sep 2011)

Thanks m8 for taking the time to keep us all informed, it could be a WIP lol. Serious though thanks m8 appreciate it

Cheers

Dave


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## Froggy (17 Sep 2011)

+1


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## Chems (18 Sep 2011)

Little bit of a post weekend update, I didn't get anything done really that I wanted to on the Cyclone front except a few measurements I need for other bits. 

Got a few bits of the design to adjust and hopefully cnc them tomorrow and get a few pictures out over the week of the range. The 50mm model is so very cute!


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## paultnl (18 Sep 2011)

I cant stand the suspence, just fitted my duct system with a nice hole waiting for a cyclone.


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## Chems (18 Sep 2011)

I don't want to rush the last stages now after such a lot of work, its easy to do. I'm going to machine a new joining strip for them one with kerfs cut in to allow the joining strip to bend more easily with the cone, the 50mm cyclone, at the small end nearest the floor its a very tight radius and I'm not 100% happy with the strength of the jointing strip, the actual shape is held by the bottom foot and top piece but I don't want people finding the strips pop off a few months down the line, so the new design should prevent that. 

Realistically I think I'll be ready for orders on the week of the 26th. But the 63, 100 and 150mm models are all ready to go now.


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## paultnl (22 Sep 2011)

How are the assembly instructions coming along? I can't wait.


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## tisdai (23 Sep 2011)

+1


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## Chems (23 Sep 2011)

Its going ok, hopefully be all sorted next week.


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## beech1948 (23 Sep 2011)

Chems,

Very well done getting this far. 

As you productise this D-I-Y cyclone kit I wonder if you could define more closely what I would get.

I am assuming a flat pack cyclone cone at about 18 to 16 inches diameter at the top, a straight bit below it, and a port to the bottom bin, a transition port at the top from my 100mm pipe into the cyclone, an air ramp to fit inside and some form of supports ( wood possibly) for the top and bottom of the cyclone cone and an exit to any external clean air return filters.

I'm assuming thats it.

I would provide the external filters, motor, impeller, DC pipe either solid or flexible, the bottom dust collection drum if I used this as a standalone cyclone.

If it was as an additional cyclone in front of my existing bagged DC then I would only need to provide pipes and connections.

Both would presumably need a frame to be made.

Incidentals like sealants, tape etc etc would be from me.

Have I got this right. Would I be able to create a standalone cyclone from this kit with external clean air filters.

regards
Alan


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## YorkshireDave (24 Sep 2011)

tisdai":1r7w3l6b said:


> +1



+1


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## tisdai (24 Sep 2011)

> Have I got this right. Would I be able to create a standalone cyclone from this kit with external clean air filters



Thats 1 thing I was trying to sort out, what and where would you or other members get a decent and more importantly right size filters from ?.

Cheers

Dave


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## beech1948 (27 Sep 2011)

Tisdai,
I'm currently searching for external filters. I have found the following companies.

1) rbindustrial.co.uk who seem to make filters in the UK. The only issue I can see is that they seem at first glance a trifle expensive.

2) Searches on Google show up a few companies after searching for Donaldson Torit. That is the name of a US based company who makes these filters for the ClearVu Cyclone company. I found a UK company which claims to have these at around £75 each so £150 for a set.

3) Searches on ebay but I keep getting less than perfect answers.

I guess that the best way to proceed is to get a specification for the Clearvu cyclone filters, assume a 3HP fan and see what we can find in the UK/Europe.

Alan


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## LynnJ (27 Sep 2011)

I was quoted for a filter by RB Industrial early this year and got a re-quote this month. The price had gone up by £40.

(the same filter used to be listed by RB on eBay but hasn't appeared recently)

Details are:

> RB123 Woodust Cartridge filter. (270gms Spun Bond PE Non woven. 11m2)

> For installation onto ~ 500mm dia. spigot 

> 1027mm Long x 490mm o/d

> Air flow (suitable for wood dust) 1300 – 1500 m3/hr

> Cost £187 excl VAT plus £30 shipping (£260.40 total)

How does the spec of the Donaldson Torit compare?

Regards
Lynn


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## paultnl (27 Sep 2011)

I would suggest waiting to see how well the cyclone performs before spending on filters as in theory they may not be necessary


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## Chems (29 Sep 2011)

Still working at this, but have a few other bits to put to bed, hopefully doing some more machining at the weekend for it.

I did have a really good look at my extractor though, theres no sizeable dust in the bag at all and its clean like new. But theres no reason you couldn't buy a cartridge filter for your extractor or Heath Robinson it onto your extractor.


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## Eric The Viking (30 Sep 2011)

One question I've been mulling over before going down the cyclone route:

Do plastic cyclones generate a lot of static charge? I know Dyson use them extensively, but I assume theirs are conductive plastic (you can't afford many exploding vacuums, if you're a manufacturer). There's quite a charge buildup associated with my Earlex shop vac, which has a plastic tub. 

I'm thinking about this for the Earlex, and a cyclone I'm contemplating as a mod for my extractor:

Putting strips of 2" aluminium tape carefully on the surface inside, possibly just at the top (no wrinkles/bubbles), and earthing through, say, a 50k resistor. That will probably kill the charge, but still allow for smooth air movement.

Has anyone had problems with static?

E.


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## knappers (30 Sep 2011)

I have a plastic Dust Deputy hooked up to an Earlex vac, and haven't noticed any static issues.

Si.


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## DaveyP (30 Sep 2011)

Hi Eric

Why do you feel a 'discharge' resistor is required ?

If the cylinder / container is conductive, then its conductive and a single earthing point should do.


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## Chems (30 Sep 2011)

Eric The Viking":v6um4x21 said:


> Putting strips of 2" aluminium tape carefully on the surface inside, possibly just at the top (no wrinkles/bubbles), and earthing through, say, a 50k resistor. That will probably kill the charge, but still allow for smooth air movement.



I would do this, there is a noticeable charge build up with the plastic cyclone but I think sitting on the metal drum helps. Its less noticeable than when you cut MDF and extract with an non AS hose thou, its more than fun static that makes your hair stand on end rather than the blue bolt of shock you can get!


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## Eric The Viking (30 Sep 2011)

DaveyP":2g950mm3 said:


> Hi Eric
> 
> Why do you feel a 'discharge' resistor is required ?
> 
> If the cylinder / container is conductive, then its conductive and a single earthing point should do.



It's not a discharge resistor as such. If the earth continuity fails (it's going to get connected/disconnected anyway to empty the bin), the thinking was that the high resistance should limit the current and reduce any chance of an accidental spark (assuming the resistor is still in circuit, that is). 

I used to wear anti-static straps on footwear (electronics factory environment, with a deliberately conductive floor). They all have a high-value resistor between the bit underfoot and the ribbon you tuck into your sock, I think for current-limiting reasons. Otherwise there's no point. I haven't measured the value (still have some heel straps, somewhere), but it may be in the megohm range.

It's a reasonable question - it may well be unnecessary, but any unexpected spark = risk and I can do without dust explosions! 

E.

P.S. where's BobM when you need him :-(


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## DaveyP (30 Sep 2011)

> I think for current-limiting reasons.



Yes correct.. its quite important that any static discharge through the body should be be done "slowly" (relatively speaking) in order to prevent an ouch.

But for an inanimate object then holding it directly at earth potential IMHO is fine


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## Chems (30 Sep 2011)

Not to break up the static discussion, I need some extra market research.

I was planning on including the super glue with the kits, but I figure most if not all of you must have super glue already, so if I leave it out and offer it as a extra it will keep the overall cost down some more. Any super glue will do, just not the 2 part mitre fast stuff, it works fine but when it goes off it releases a gas that stains the lovely clear plastic around it. 

Thoughts?


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## beech1948 (30 Sep 2011)

I had a long discussion with rbindustrial in Andover today. I was trying to make the point that £400 ish for a custome made filter was too much. During conversation they mentioned the Donaldson Torit filters and I was quoted a price of £92.00.

I found on ebay the following also from rbindustrial.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DONALDSON...ltDomain_3&hash=item53e69845b5#ht_1119wt_1170

I think my cyclone will need two of these stacked on top of each other with a small drawer/bin at the bottom.

Alan


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## paultnl (1 Oct 2011)

Chems":160sw1mi said:


> Not to break up the static discussion, I need some extra market research.
> 
> I was planning on including the super glue with the kits, but I figure most if not all of you must have super glue already, so if I leave it out and offer it as a extra it will keep the overall cost down some more. Any super glue will do, just not the 2 part mitre fast stuff, it works fine but when it goes off it releases a gas that stains the lovely clear plastic around it.
> 
> Thoughts?



No problem leaving ot the super glue, that is something we all have or can source from the pound shop. It might be beter to include the grounding strips as I am sure we don't want to order a role just to get a short bit for this project.


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## Aled Dafis (1 Oct 2011)

I'm definitely interested in the 63mm kit! Been meaning to build one for ages but never got around to it.

Cheers
Aled


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## Chems (1 Oct 2011)

paultnl":31r9n8gl said:


> Chems":31r9n8gl said:
> 
> 
> > Not to break up the static discussion, I need some extra market research.
> ...



Thanks for that feedback, just what I thought! 

I think you do actually have to ground the entire system for it to work but I've no qualms buying a role of 10mm copper tape and selling it by the meter for people if they want. 


Good news on the major works, spent the morning cnc'ing all the parts new joining strip works much better, not as pretty but works better and that what counts. I will photograph them tomorrow and be ready to take orders mid next week. 

I will have an assembled model of the 100mm, 150mm, 50mm and 63mm to sell as well, so deference to people close to me as I don't want to be posting them ideally, PM me if your close to Northampton or Nottingham.


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## Chems (1 Oct 2011)

Here's a pic of the prototype 50mm, not so pretty as its been worked on more than once to get it right and has glue drops all over but it exists!


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## chippy1970 (1 Oct 2011)

Chems,

Ive just noticed this thread , do you think that would work on a Midi vac as a mobile cyclone ? as below


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## chippy1970 (1 Oct 2011)

Here s a pic of the grounding you were talking about


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## Chems (1 Oct 2011)

Yes sure it would, that's what its aimed at the 50mm model!


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## The Bear (2 Oct 2011)

Have to confess i know nothing about this static build up buisness but if it is connected up to metal ducting will that not act as a grounding?

Mark


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## paultnl (2 Oct 2011)

The Bear":sppaj3kb said:


> Have to confess i know nothing about this static build up buisness but if it is connected up to metal ducting will that not act as a grounding?
> 
> Mark



The ducting would need to be connected to a ground and a conductor needs to be on the plastic and connected to the ducting. This stuff looks ideal for the job and is cheap enough http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SLUG-TAPE-COP ... 5ae278b36e


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## The Bear (3 Oct 2011)

What's the difference between the metal ducting touching the plastic cyclone and the metal ducting touching another conductor touching the plastic cyclone? Just trying to understand it.

Understand the ducting itself you need to be grounded.

Mark


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## paultnl (3 Oct 2011)

The plastic is non-conducting, touching it is not enough to remove a charge unless it has built up enough to jump through the air. (the issue we are trying to avoid)
Having a complete circuit throughout the system running to earth stops static building to spark inducing levels.


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