# New workshop project about to start



## Kris the Handyman

Hello everyone,

We are just about to buy a new house (which needs a bit of work) with a medium size garden at the back and an old shed which is falling apart.
One priority is the house but also the new workshop. So my plan is take the current shed to the tip and build a new one. There is enough space to build a big-ish one, about 20-30sqm one. I've never done anything similar before so my first idea was to buy a heavy duty pressure treated ready build shed (around £3k) but then I came across Mike's shed build and absolutely love it and I think I could build one. What would be a ball park figure cost of one (about 4m x 7m)? I was thinking of doing a sloping roof to one side rather than a pitched one to get extra space on one side but it has to be below 4m at the highest point - I don't know if that's a good idea?
I was thinking of installing a chip extractor on the outside behind the shed for health reasons but using a dust extractor with the smaller tools inside the shed (currently I have an M class Metabo vac)
I've got lots of questions but I'm hoping I can get some of the answers from current threads and not bore everyone to death.

I'm trying to attach photos of the old sad shed but struggling


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## MikeG.

I think mine cost a little over £2500, from memory, so just over £80/sq m. Building a mono-pitch roof will save a chunk of this, but you lose some useful storage space, and they just don't look as attractive (in my view). Open an account (if you don't have one) with one or two local builders merchants. You get some pretty hefty discounts with an account, and if you are building a house these will save a fortune.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thank you for your quick reply Mike. That's a good price. 
I have an account with Jewson but not much of a discount yet.

I've been reading on about the planning permission rules and I'm confused when I'm allowed a 4m high shed and when a 2.5m one. I've been looking at this source as I'm in Scotland but still unsure https://beta.gov.scot/publications/...ted-development-rights-9781780456836/pages/6/
Can you help and clarify that? I will be putting this shed around 1m from the neighbours fence. Can it be 4m high or only 2.5m?
Can't wait for it all to start. I've been working out of a tiny shed, which in reality was only to keep my tools and materials and I had to do all the work outside weather permitting.


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## cammy9r

http://doineedpermission.co.uk/planning ... den-sheds/

Give this link a try. Any part of the building within 1m must not be higher than 2.5m. Double check building regs they are separate from planning.


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## MikeG.

I can't comment on the situation in Scotland. In England and Wales the height thing is dependent on the roof type.


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## Fitzroy

Design what you want and get planning permission. I had to as I’m in a conservatation area (Aberdeen based) but it was such an easy process and only a couple of hundred quid and meant I didn’t have to worry about someone complaining and then a visit from planning saying I hadn’t quite met the conditions for permitted development. 

That said the Aberdeen city council website has some great graphics about what constitutes permitted development. Which I’m sure will be the same as the rest of Scotland. 

Cheers 

Fitz.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks guys. 

My problem is time. Just like with Mike's original thread I also need to have the workshop up asap in order to work on the house and get my tools and materials out of paid storage. We are finalising the mortgage and should be ready to move in very soon. Also a 30 sq m workshop is more than enough for my needs so if I do it right I won't need a planning permission 
Next time I'm there I will take proper photos and measurements so I can plan the workshop build. I will most likely be going Mike's way with a timber framed workshop but will need advice on roof pitch and barn door design


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## Fitzroy

Kris.

The link you posted has the same graphics that I recall. My take was you can have a structure up to 4m tall but any part within 1m of a boundary has to be less than 2.5m high. 

My design for a ‘pent’ shed, sloping flat roof from front to back, was to achieve this by having the front edge at 3m then sloped at an angle to be 2.5m at 1m from the boundary. The rear of the shed is 50cm from the boundary wall for ventilation and access. 

I posted my build on here with a bunch of pictures that should make it clear what I mean by pent shed. The build post also has all my costs for a similar size building to what you are proposing. I could not however use a concrete base due to building in the root zone of protected trees. 

Fitz.


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## MikeG.

Fitzroy":3oudbdv5 said:


> Kris.
> 
> The link you posted has the same graphics that I recall. My take was you can have a structure up to 4m tall but any part within 1m of a boundary has to be less than 2.5m high..........



Ooooh, careful! That really isn't the case, unless you're in Scotland where it is possible they have different rules (I simply don't know). Here's the wording:



> No outbuilding on land forward of a wall forming the principal elevation.
> Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
> Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse.
> No verandas, balconies or raised platforms.
> No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.
> In National Parks, the Broads, Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty and World Heritage Sites the maximum area to be covered by buildings, enclosures, containers and pools more than 20 metres from house to be limited to 10 square metres.
> On designated land* buildings, enclosures, containers and pools at the side of properties will require planning permission.
> Within the curtilage of listed buildings any outbuilding will require planning permission.



From here.


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## Fitzroy

Mike, I understand Kris is in Scotland, and I think it is subtly different to down south. 

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/guid ... 6/pages/6/ 

Sections 4.74 thru 4.84. 

If he’s not in Scotland then ignore everything I said. 

Fitz.


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## Kris the Handyman

Yes, I am in Scotland and my understanding of the Planning department was the same as you Fitzroy. However I also need to keep in mind Building Regs so my workshop would need to be just over 1 m from my neighbours fence to comply or I would need to build from something non combustable if it was less than that. I'm fine with having it further out. 

In a minute I will post pics and my plans of the new place so you can feel sorry for me for the amount of work I'm about to take on. Stay tuned


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## Kris the Handyman

Right, here we go. Here is the current state of the place. That shed in the pictures is falling apart so I will need to dismantle it first. The new workshop will be placed in the same spot, slightly back towards the back fence.












This is the back behind the shed with lots of rubbish to get rid of but the views are not too bad










Here are my plans for the new workshop. THE HEIGHT SHOULD BE AROUND 3500-4000 (NOT 4500). The reason I'm not sure of the height yet is that there is a phone cable going from the post to the house at around 3500mm height and I'm not sure if I will be able to squeeze that extra 500mm. I will check that before proceeding with the build


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## Steve Maskery

Go to your planning department and ask them if you need planning permission. My experience is that they actually WANT to be of help wherever they can be, whilst keeping the cowboys at bay. Which is how it should be, I reckon.
Then make friends with your BCO. Now I do know people who have done projects where the BCO has been a PITA, and simply wrong in his interpretation of the rules. But my own experience was that he wanted to help as much as he could to make sure that my build did not go awry. I remember that one day he turned up and simply laughed.
"What's so funny?", I asked.
"Nothing", he said, "It's just that this is a shed and I go to see houses that are not being as well-built as this is."
Court your friends of influence, do the job properly and all shall be well.


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## Kris the Handyman

Is anyone in the know about roofing on here? I'm puzzled by all the different kinds of roofing tiles, vents, etc.
I will be fitting a new roof on the house and another on the workshop. Workshop first. The land sits on a hill with a lot of wind coming in from the fields. Would I need roof vents or would the breather membrane be enough? Then which tiles would be best - S tiles or plain tiles?


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## MikeG.

The answer to all of your questions is "it depends". Sorry.

Choice of roof tile: what's the local vernacular? How old is your house and its neighbours. What is the roof pitch? What is your budget?

Vented ridge/ roof tiles: what sort of tiles are you having? Does the ceiling line follow the underside of the rafters, or the underside of the joists? Where is the insulation? What shape is the roof? What functions happen in the building?

"S tiles"......do you mean pantiles?


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## Steve Maskery

I can't tell you either.
But I can tell you that we did mine (I say 'We", I mean, of course, "Ray"), with flat cement (not concrete) tiles that look like slates when they are up. They are well in keeping with the original slate tiles of the houses round here (although mine have been replaced by concrete tiles).
IIRC they are made by Cembrit.
















IIRC they cost about 80p each at the time, plus the copper rivets, so it is not a cheap solution, but I have no regrets, I think it looks superb.

I have a few(!) left because Ray can't count...


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## Paul200

Bit late in the day but I found this helpful when building my sheds.

http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0038/00388268.pdf

Paul

(Edit - Section 4 - Page 43 on)


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## Kris the Handyman

MikeG.":26jkdm5h said:


> The answer to all of your questions is "it depends". Sorry.
> 
> Choice of roof tile: what's the local vernacular? How old is your house and its neighbours. What is the roof pitch? What is your budget?
> 
> Vented ridge/ roof tiles: what sort of tiles are you having? Does the ceiling line follow the underside of the rafters, or the underside of the joists? Where is the insulation? What shape is the roof? What functions happen in the building?
> 
> "S tiles"......do you mean pantiles?



Completely understand that it's a broad question so I will try to narrow it down a bit.

I will be doing 2 roofs - striping and putting a new one on the house and a new one for the workshop. I wanted them to look similar but this isn't a must. Even a colour match will be satisfactory.

Current roof on the house looks like this.













All the houses on that street are timber framed ex council houses built circa 1953 (well, most still belong to the council). A lot of them had just had the roofs and cladding done. On the last photo you can see the neighbours new roof and our original old concrete tiled roof. This is on a windy hill in Scotland with open fields to one side of the house. There is floor insulation in the loft. I don't have any other info, sorry. We didn't get keys to the house yet.
My budget? I always aim for the best value for money, the happy medium. 
By S tiles I mean pantiles, yes.

I think the safest bet would be to copy the neighbours roof but maybe in a different colour? Maybe to match the brick course?


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## Kris the Handyman

Steve, that workshop looks fantastic!


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## Kris the Handyman

I've ordered a good book about roof tiling by Kevin Taylor. Can't wait to start reading


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## Kris the Handyman

I've been calculating the pitch on the workshop and unless I can ask BT Openreach to move the telephone cable higher up then I won't be able to put tiles on the roof. I've emailed them and I hope for the best as it's a simple job.


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## deema

I built my new workshop which is an industrial building two years ago, admittedly it’s a lot larger than what is proposed but it worked out at just under £30 / square foot finished by a contractor including insulated concrete floor and 3ph electrics. The actual building (steel frame, cladding, roof lights and doors) itself cost £7.4 / square foot. The reason for bringing it up is that since having it built I was very surprised by how inexpensive the cladding was. The cladding and roof lights all have 100mm of insulation built in. The price per square foot was far cheaper than I could have clad the building in shiplap wood excluding any membrane, insulation etc etc. There is a good range of colours available and I’ve always wondered why this material isn’t used for workshop garden sheds. (The thickness of insulation can be specified) it meets none flammability rules (boundary requirements), it’s very easy to cut, fix, and should the need arise replace. Its fully waterproof, won’t rot and fully insulated. It can be used to clad a simplified wooden frame that will be cheaper than the frame for the same shed that is wooden clad.

Just a thought.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks for that. What kind of cladding is it? I couldn't work it out from your post.
Did you mean that it DOES meat flammability requirements or it does not?

Cheers


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## deema

Sorry, it does meet fire retardant requirements. 

I selected a dark green to tone in with the fields and not stick out. It’s 10 foot to the eves which is all I need and makes it harder to spot and also easier to heat. The roof lights coupled with white walls really provide superb lighting. I don’t have any widows for added security and don’t miss the potential extra light. 

The roller shutter door is also insulated. The workshop provides really good sound insulation as it’s near neighbors. 

I don’t have any shots of the workshop other than when it was going up. It’s around 1500 sq/feet.


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## deema

I would also like other posts recommend going for planning, it’s not difficult and if your in England they don’t seem to care about the size as long as it’s within the boundaries of your house. You can then build a smaller shed than you have planning for that is capable of being extended to the maximum size you have planning for. Once you’ve started planning is for ever. I’d move the shed right up to your boundaries and also consider what else you or the next person may build upon the spot the shed will be located.


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## Kris the Handyman

That looks impressive but would look too industrial for my area. If I were in a detached house out in the sticks that would be ideal.

I don't have any problem with applying for planning permission but also no need. In Scotland we can build up to 4m high without it and up to the boundary if the eaves are not higher 2.5m - which is exactly what I'm aiming for. Building Regs on the other hand say that if I'm building 1m or less to the boundary then the external cladding has to be fire resistant and that's where the cement fibre external cladding would come in place. So all good here

The are only 2 things that I'm still trying to work out
1. Whether to go flat/sloping roof or pitched
2. What external colour scheme to go for


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## Kris the Handyman

I need some advice on concrete. With a 30 sqm slab would I be cheaper and quick enough with a cement mixer or would it be better to order a truck? I'm on my own either way


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## Steve Maskery

Order it. Get it all well prepared and order it. They can mix up just enough on-site, so you don't pay for more than you need and you are not left with a hole of just a couple of feet.


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## Dandan

Definitely order the concrete, I had a 30 sqm slab to pour and I couldn't imagine doing it with a mixer! Also get some help if you can, the more the better, there were 2 and a half of us (one with a bad back) when we had the concrete delivered and we couldn't level it fast enough and ended up significantly overfilling, I reckon I wasted nearly half a cubic metre which I had to shovel back out.

In unrelated topics, does anyone want a large loft water tank completely filled with concrete...?


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks guys for the advice. 

Dandan so are you saying you went all the way up into the loft with the excess concrete? :lol: 

Steve from reading your topic I think you had a few people helping with the wheelbarrows. Looking at this today I think I will be on my own so I would either need to be really really quick or lucky  

What's the cost of such an exercise per sqm?


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## powertools

Having quickly scanned this thread I would suggest that if you think you can lay that much concrete on your own you would be better off not trying to build it.


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## Steve Maskery

IIRC I spent about £1200 on 64 m2. But we had two loads, one to extend the footprint of the original garage and then a second later on to screed the lot. The depth varied from 2" to more than 6", so it is quite difficult to say how many cubic metres it was.
But even just _barrowing_ the stuff was hard work, let alone mixing it as well.


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## MikeG.

Readymix is roughly £100/ cu m for a full load (6 cu m)*. 30 sq m by what depth? 100mm deep and you'd knock that up reasonably easily, particularly if you have someone pushing it roughly into place for you as you barrow back and forth. However, if you can't get your materials delivered adjacent to the formwork, then that would turn into something of an ordeal. I've mixed up 8 cubic metres in a day, with a friend, and that was seriously hard work.

*Budget price. Obviously this varies greatly.


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## Kris the Handyman

powertools":2vhqerpw said:


> Having quickly scanned this thread I would suggest that if you think you can lay that much concrete on your own you would be better off not trying to build it.


I think I'll be alright, thanks for your concern though =D> 

Steve and Mike - thank you. The closest the truck could get to the form is about 30m. I will try and get my brother or my neighbour to help 

The build should start in a couple weeks time


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## Kris the Handyman

It's been a long time but the house move took longer than I anticipated and there was lots to do in the new house before I could start on the workshop. The time has come to start the project. Some pics from yesterday. Today the weather wasn't great so nothing was done.

1. Get rid off the old shed and all rubbish


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## flying haggis

Kris, re the BT cable, cut it off at the house end and when you ring up BT to order a new phone line tell them "it was like that when we moved in" they will then have to reroute it to clear your shed


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## Setch

I did the Base shown below with my dad and a friend, and it was hard, hard work, starting at sparrows fart and finishing after dark.

The friend in question started emphatically that he never wanted to do any concreting again, ever. He is still a friend though!

Just take a look at the bags of aggregate in the first pic,for a not very large, or thick, base. I really wouldn't fancy trying to do the job solo...


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## Kris the Handyman

It's too late for the BT phone cable story but I've checked it and the new workshop may only just touch it and even if it does there is lots of slack in it which I have checked when on the roof of the old shed, so no drama. They've told me it's £140 iirc to move one cable! Shocking

My current state of affairs is that I have planned most of the build, spoke with my neighbours which some are eager to help, I've dismantled the old shed, organised a skip (some boards are going to one of my neighbours and I will some for the form), mini digger arrived today + 8T of hardcore, 1T of pea gravel (for the soakaway), 5 sheets of mesh, DPM and a bag of mesh-men, 4 soakaway crates + pipes. I also bought some new windows from ebay and an up and over garage door from gumtree (for £20!) almost brand new. 
I'm gonna have the concrete poured once the ground is ready
Busy weekend ahead!
Ain't true without pictures


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## mbartlett99

Hey Kris
Have you checked EDC on the planning? I remember as a kid when dad built our house in Colinton that Edinburgh had really strict rules - admittedly that was for a house. Where are you btw I can't place it from the photos?


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## Kris the Handyman

I'm not in Edinburgh anymore, I'm in a tiny village just outside Falkirk. Everyone does whatever they want round here :lol: 

The soakaway crates might be an overkill because the old shed was sitting on an old school soak way, ae lots of rubble, which actually does work very well but it's belt and braces for me.


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## flying haggis

Kris
when you bury the soakaway crates wrap them in the old bulk bags to stop the soil getting in and filling them and reducing their efficiency


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks haggis for the tip. These actually came with the proper geo textile membrane so all good here but I know that these bulk bags have many uses so I will keep them.

Had a quick play with the digger and lifted some of the slabs and I found that underneath there is lots of hardcore and a bit of a concrete slab - so chuffed with this as this means less work for me. I will only need to dig a bit at the back as my new workshop will be bigger than the old shed was and level it all up. 

I don't know about you guys but I had this feeling today when the equipment and materials started arriving today, that there is no turning back now and I have to get this done. It was a positive motivational feeling.

Only thing I haven't decided yet is whether to go for a 7.5x4m or 7x4.5m shed. I need to decide by tomorrow :shock:


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## Kris the Handyman

Well, day 1 was mixed. I did manage to clear all of the rubbish away into the skip. There was decking at the back which I had to dig up, cut into manageable pieces and throw in the skip - that took a while. There was lots of sleepers all around which at first I didn't notice and these are very heavy and again I had to cut them up before throwing away. This all takes so much time. I still have another 6 sleepers to remove before I can start bringing in the hardcore. So far this wasn't much fun

Forecast for tomorrow isn't great but nevertheless I will still plough on


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## TopCat 32

Kris, re concrete, dont know which way you are going , mix yourself, volumetric ( mix on site) or Ready Mix (mixer truck delivery) , as someone that batches concrete for a living be careful , getting material delivered to site and mixing a barrowload at a time will save a little money ( you will be surprised at how little) volumetric you can order roughley what you want have a little more or a little less than what's required and have no waste, around here the price is approx £130 m3 and you get 15 mins a m3 to unload, readymix from 1 of the more reputupiutable suppliers should be approx £90 a m3 , trucks hold 6m3 (we have mainly 8M3 trucks) if you want less than 6m3 you may be charged for uncarried meterage at half price IE if you want 5 m3 , it will be 5X£90 + 1 X£45, the main drawback is waiting time is charged at about £120 per hour after 30 mins , i know this seems excessive but Readymix is after bulk and small 1 off jobs are a pain as they hold the trucks up when they could be on major pours (100m3 +).
i have 2 sheds up the 1st the base was done by volumetric truck before i started in the readymix industry, as i worked out it was so much cheaper, (the quality was a lot less inferior than readymix)
2nd was done with my current employer, with staff discount and a drink for my driver to deliver to my house on a saturday morning.
that said some of the volumetric firms are shall we say using inferior material, i have seen recycled glass , and crushed concrete going in the mixes , with the major suppliers (Hanson , Cemex Tarmac, Lafarge ect) you will get a guarantee of quality (QSRMS scheme or equivalent).

you pay your money you take your choice
Hope this helps
Tim
.


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## Kris the Handyman

Hi Tim. I'm gonna have a ready mix delivered by a truck from a reputable company. Very good quality concrete and recommended by everyone around me, including a neighbour who worked there and had his shed base done. They wheelbarrow everything for you free of charge too which is fantastic!
I've worked out I will need around 7-8 m3. Really can't wait to have the base done so can start seeing some progress


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## TopCat 32

Kris the Handyman":kxbte085 said:


> Hi Tim. I'm gonna have a ready mix delivered by a truck from a reputable company. Very good quality concrete and recommended by everyone around me, including a neighbour who worked there and had his shed base done. They wheelbarrow everything for you free of charge too which is fantastic!
> I've worked out I will need around 7-8 m3. Really can't wait to have the base done so can start seeing some progress



sounds Good, i'm sure that the right move, and if they barrow it for you that is one hell of a bonus, dont forget to post some pictures


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## Kris the Handyman

This is where I'm at after the weekend.




After I dug the ground up a bit I've discovered that there is actually no slab underneath but breeze blocks instead and lots of bricks. The guy that I hired the digger from is such a nice bloke - he came to pick up the scrap wood and saw that I was struggling with the build and started helping. He removed the remaining 3 sleepers and put them on the skip with the digger and then moved all the rubble around for me. He then helped me get all the squares right and left me to it. I then wheelbarrowed 1 tonne of the hardcore before John the gent (the digger guy) appeared again a couple hours later and helped me spread another 2 tonnes. He's gonna come back again next Saturday with his digger to help finish it off. He doesn't want any money for the help - we have a deal that once I'm finished here I will go and help him with his work. He lives just across the field from me. 

Now here comes the annoying bit. After I measured everything up and levelled everything... I may need to move the whole form around 1 more meter from the back fence because my wife wants a patio over there. Now, I knew that and I was 100% sure how big she wanted it so I left 1.9m of space there but she thinks that this isn't enough. She isn't insisting on it but I'm sure we all know how women are - if I don't do it I will hear the moan for the rest of my life. I will double check with her in a couple days time. I like the idea of a little patio at the back there because the views are really stunning there and it's a very private spot


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## mindthatwhatouch

Rather than move the whole form stick a metre on the front?


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## Kris the Handyman

The base stays where it is - that's after I've checked 10 times with my wife if she is sure 

The base is now nearly finished. I've had to wheelbarrow the remaining bags of hardcore myself because John didn't turn up and none of the "eager" neighbours where there to help.

I had a quick play with Sketchup and this is more or less what I want the shed to look like. I still haven't decided on the roof though because I do like the look of those cement tiles that look like slates but all the house roof in this area are brown concrete.


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## flying haggis

looking good, could you get a bigger window in the gable end to enjoy the view that you have


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## MikeG.

Careful, Kris. Vertical boards require a horizontal batten over a vertical counterbatten, which means a 50mm gap between boards and the frame. Check your junction detail with the plinth, and check your insect mesh.


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## Kris the Handyman

Flying haggis - for me this is the middle sweet spot between not having a window over there at all and have more wall/tool space and having a great view. The window I have is 1.5x1.3m so decent size. Only the top 2 small windows open and the bottom glass doesn't open at all, which is exactly what I wanted.

Mike - I will cross that bridge when I get there, so far it's not 100% decided whether it's horizontal or vertical . I like the natural look of wood and I thought of putting just a clear coat over the cladding and not paint it. 

I have decided to order a bit more hardcore and sand. The base sits on a well compacted ground as the old shed used to sit there but I don't feel confident of having just 50mm of hardcore on one of the edges so I will put a lot more on. 

So far it's quite boring and I'm looking forward to the next steps


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## Kris the Handyman

Quick question for you gents. Is 120mm on one side (just one side - left hand side) and 80-90mm in some low bits in the centre (average is around 100mm) enough for the concrete slab? I will have a mesh. 
If it's not enough then no worries, I will add more boards all around


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## Kris the Handyman

2 days before the day of the pour I decided that I wasn't happy about my shuttering and ripped it all out and started again. This time I've used 4x2's. At one point I was running with the wheelbarrow so fast that I've moved and whacked down 3 Tonnes of sand in just under 2 hours. 
The concrete truck was due to arrive on Saturday at 13:00 and on Friday my building site looked like this 




Saturday was very windy but with a help of a friend of mine we've managed to put the DPM down without any problems and it all looked like this 



At 12:00 I get a phone call "we're running a bit late so will be with you around 3:30-4:00" I thought that's alright, that will give me time to catch a breath but unfortunately at around 4pm I get another phone call "we won't make it today ". I wasn't happy but what can you do so I've rescheduled the pour to next Saturday.
So what else can you do other than go and play with a digger


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## flying haggis

i hope they have rescheduled you for first thing next sat


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## Kris the Handyman

Yes, first thing on Saturday and they won't charge me for floating


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## Kris the Handyman

Hooray! The base is down





















It's raining today and I don't see any pooling which means a very flat and level base  

Cost wise I paid £780 for 6.6 Cubic M. Included in the price is the wheelbarrowing and general help with levelling, etc. 

This was a milestone for me and I'm really happy with the result. Today I was looking up various flooring solutions and I will most likely go for a 2 part epoxy and some foam interlocking mats around the bench


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## OscarG

Looking good Kris, thanks for sharing this.

The white pipe with the blue tape in the bottom left of the pic, is that for electrics?


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## MikeG.

Excellent. That's the hard part out of the way.


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## flying haggis

Kris, I hope that the two bits of pipe for the electric feed into the workshop have a gentle bend on them as you might struggle to get a decent size cable through. and dont forget while you have a trench open to put in any other cables ethernet,phone,alarm tv sattelite etc (or just duct) at the same time possibly water pipe as well


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks guys. It does feel good to have this done now. Hopefully it's more straightforward from now on.
The white pipes are 40mm plumbing pipes for electric and ethernet cables. I've separated them so it's easier to slide cables through but flying haggis you now got me a bit worried because I have a 90 degree bend on them. Would a 6mm armoured cable struggle to get through?


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## flying haggis

hi Kris

depends on the bend if it is one of these you will struggle

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbi ... %B0/p10970

but you might be ok if it is one of these
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbi ... %B0/p70029


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## Kris the Handyman

I can't remember now but I'm pretty sure it was the first one, the 90 degree one so as you say I may struggle but I will deal with it once I'm ready to connect the power


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## Fitzroy

Could you terminate the armoured cable outside and then bring a more flexible regular cable through the pipe? 

F.


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## MikeG.

Fitzroy":9444pe27 said:


> Could you terminate the armoured cable outside and then bring a more flexible regular cable through the pipe?
> 
> F.



Only by having a watertight junction box, which may well be a gell-filled double sealed thing.


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## flying haggis

Kris the Handyman":20i1o1ev said:


> I can't remember now but I'm pretty sure it was the first one, the 90 degree one so as you say I may struggle but I will deal with it once I'm ready to connect the power



three core 6mm swa cable has a minimum bend radius of 90mm so I think you should be ok (if you cut a bit of the pipe off the bit that is horizontal it might make it easier to thread through) bit of washing up liquid helps it slide in easier as well!! Oooh Matron.......)


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks for the advice guys. The pipe for the electrics will be cut off either end flush with the concrete slab.
I bought some hardwood doors for the workshop today. 
I will be taking the shuttering off tomorrow and depending on the weather I may fill the slab all around with the pea gravel that I have sitting in the front garden. I also need to build a gate for our drive. Hopefully not a lot of rain over the weekend.


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## Kris the Handyman

Weather has been really bad recently so not much has been happening but the forecast looks good for the weekend.

I've encountered a big issue though - I can't get the 50mm blocks anywhere. Checked a few local suppliers and none can get these for me. One supplier has it on their website but none in stock and won't be getting such a small order for me, it's just not worth it for them and I completely understand that. 

So what are the other options if any?
100mm blocks? Another course of bricks?


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## flying haggis

what type of 50mm blocks are you looking for? if we know we might come up with an alternative


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## Kris the Handyman

It's the 50mm thermalite blocks that Mike was suggesting in his plans. I'm more or less following his plans


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## E-wan

Kris the Handyman":1aj2voxj said:


> Thanks guys. It does feel good to have this done now. Hopefully it's more straightforward from now on.
> The white pipes are 40mm plumbing pipes for electric and ethernet cables. I've separated them so it's easier to slide cables through but flying haggis you now got me a bit worried because I have a 90 degree bend on them. Would a 6mm armoured cable struggle to get through?


Did you fit a piece of string inside the pipes before laying them. This can then be used to pull through any other cables.

If not you can progressively feed through a more flexible cable, use that to pull a piece of strong string through then use the string to pull a tougher cable.

We once managed to get the pipe from an oil tank into the house using an old lead water pipe as a conduit.

Ewan

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## flying haggis

Kris the Handyman":331b50m3 said:


> It's the 50mm thermalite blocks that Mike was suggesting in his plans. I'm more or less following his plans


thermalite blocks are soft and can be cut with a hand saw , so you could make your own from 100mm blocks

PS cant see 50mm blocks on mikes design


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## Kris the Handyman

E-wan: I haven't laid any pipes yet

Flying Haggis: Here is the link to his new design http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=100
In the old design the workshop would sit on just the bricks but with the addition of the blocks it's nearly flush with the plinth. It's not crucial though so I may go with the old design. 
Slicing the 100mm in half is double but some task as I would need to slice them in half on the 100mm face


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## LarryS.

Kris the Handyman":mtrlvj1n said:


> E-wan: I haven't laid any pipes yet
> 
> Flying Haggis: Here is the link to his new design http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopi ... &start=100
> In the old design the workshop would sit on just the bricks but with the addition of the blocks it's nearly flush with the plinth. It's not crucial though so I may go with the old design.
> Slicing the 100mm in half is double but some task as I would need to slice them in half on the 100mm face



Kris,

On a previous thread where someone had exactly the same issue he made a framework that a 100mm block could sit inside with a slit around the middle of the framework on 3 sides that he then sawed down through. From memory it was a simple thing to make and worked very well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ObservantGround28

I looked for blocks <100mm when I built my (block) workshop. They’re very rare and I never came across anything less than 90mm. You sure it’s not bricks being referred to?


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## Kris the Handyman

It's these blocks: 
https://www.buildbase.co.uk/thermalite- ... 11-2827718
I phoned them and none in stock and they won't get them in unless it's a big quantity

So it's either the idea that LarryS suggests or I will omit the blocks altogether and build it on bricks. Once I've done the bricks I will then measure up and see how things are looking. We have a beautiful sunny day over here so it should be a productive day


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## flying haggis

Buildbase list a thermalite coursing brick which is 100mm high, so lay it on its side, buildbase stock no 2061133 they might get a pallet infor you (dont know how many are on a pallet though)


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## MikeG.

Kris the Handyman":1mcudirf said:


> ......... I can't get the 50mm blocks anywhere........



I checked with a local supplier last week. There is a national shortage of blocks, so manufacturers are concentrating on churning out the basic stuff. Cutting soft blocks in half isn't difficult or particularly time consuming, and can be done with a cheap large-toothed "jack" saw (£5 to £10), or with a large (9" or 12") angle grinder. You don't need to make formwork to aid the cutting, although it might speed things up a bit. Don't forget, the cut face will go to the brickwork, so it doesn't matter how rough the cut is. Possibly the quickest way is to use a 9" grinder and cut along the 2 long edges, then insert a bolster or a big wooden wedge and tap gently until it drops in two.

Building directly on a 4" plinth leaves a really ugly 60+mm overhang at the bottom, and it is such a shame to go to all the trouble of building a really nice workshop to be faced with that nasty detail every time you look at it.


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## Kris the Handyman

That's true, there is a national shortage of bricks and blocks. I was really lucky that I've managed to get my bricks in time because my usual suppliers had very little and wait time is 6-8 weeks.

I will see if I can get the 100mm thermalite blocks. If they have them in stock locally then I will go the sawing in half route. 

I started the brick laying today. I have to say that this is definitely a skilled job and the skill comes with practice. I'm really bad at it.


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## flying haggis

Kris, dont forget that thermalite are not the only makers of that type of block


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## Kris the Handyman

We had frost last night and there is forecast again for frost for the next 2 nights so I didn't want to take any chances and didn't lay any bricks today. Hopefully I can lay them next weekend. In the meantime I will try and source these blocks


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## flying haggis

come on Kris we need to see how it is progressing


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## Kris the Handyman

Sorry about the silence. Weather has been really bad lately with lots of rain and strong winds. There is little progress though. The bricks are down but I'm still to half the blocks and lay them. In the meantime I have cut up the remains of the old shed and it's slowly going up with smoke. I have also built a gate for the back garden so now the whole back garden is secure and a bit more private. I got so annoyed with the rain that I built a temporary shelter for my chop saw so I can still cut in the rain.
Tomorrow I will be ordering the 4x2's, 6x2's, ridge beam, OSB and the rest of the stuff.

I have changed my plans for the door layout. I will have both the garage door and main door at the front of the building. That will make my life easier when getting in long lengths of wood


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## MikeG.

Oh yes. Seeing a decent slab and plinth does me the power of good........


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## flying haggis

Hi Kris, looking good, you will be surprised how fast it will go when you start building walls and how quickly that huge pile timber that you bought will disappear


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## Kris the Handyman

Quick update:

100mm blocks cut in half with a 9 inch angle grinder and then finished off with a handsaw. Straps fitted and blocks laid. Unfortunately the only day that I finally decided to lay the blocks we had frost. I had everything covered and only the top surface has suffered a bit, the rest is solid so I will leave it. I started measuring and cutting for the walls but it's too dark now, even with the lights on so that's it for now. 
Did I mention that I'm a dung bricklayer? I will mention that again, just in case  

I have also tidied up the whole site a bit


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## MikeG.

Watch how quickly it goes up from now on, Kris. That's the hard part finished.


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## Kris the Handyman

I'm pretty sure I typed something else there instead of "dung" :lol: 

The walls should be quick and easy, it's the ridge beam that I'm a bit worried about. This thing ways quite a lot. I honestly don't know how you Mike did it on your own and from ladders! I will plan for at least 3 people and 3 stepladders or even hiring one of those balcony lifts for a day.


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## flying haggis

Come on Kris, the cold never stopped anyone in Scotland working


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## Kris the Handyman

Framing is much much easier and way faster 

One up. That's the gable end facing the fields with the massive window.



Second nearly ready. That's the front gable - main door and garage door. From what I know about framing the gable end opening doesn't need big headers with a pitched roof but I beefed them up anyway




Two up and third one being build. My cat is overseeing all the works
I've decided to ditch the second window. One big facing the field will be sufficient and I will have lots of led lights in there anyway




It was too dark for photos but the third wall is ready and the fourth one is nearly finished but I run out of 4x2's. The 4x2's I ordered were really horrible with lots of knots, splits and chewed up in places. I'm gonna send photos to my supplier because that wood shouldn't have left the warehouse. I will be getting more wood tomorrow from whichever place is open and finish the last wall


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## jacko

The build is looking great. Sharing the photos really helps the community, especially for me as I'm planning my own version of Mike's shed at the moment. 

I see that the brick course has a gap (for the garage door I assume). Are you not going for an insulated floor with the 500 gauge DPM, and kingspan etc, or do you have a cunning plan for fitting it all together?


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks jacko. I know that pictures paint a thousand words that's why I'm trying to take photos of every stage. It's also good to show and help others. I will have a standard door and a garage door at the front and no insulated floor, the slab is my final floor which will get painted with a 2 part epoxy... but knowing me this plan may change over time 

I've gathered some help and the 4 of us put the walls up.
We started with the small one facing the field which was really easy and light. It was levelled and braced before we moved on to the big side wall. That was a beast but we managed ok. Levels checked and then nailed to the first one




here we are pushing the top for level




2 up, 2 to go. I'm putting the mortar down while the rest try and look busy




from then on it was just a repeat process until we had all of them up. After that we checked the distance between the bottom sills and adjusted the top sills to match. I don't know if you can see but my big side walls were overlapping the small ones - that helped with levelling (you should be able to see it on the first 2 photos) 




Then I secured all the straps and nailed everything tight together and braced



Weather held up and we managed to finish it all before the rain. It's 70mph winds today and I'm glad we didn't have to do it today.

Next up is the roof


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## MikeG.

Fantastic. I told you that part would fly up. Isn't it amazing how strong it gets once you secure a corner?


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## Kris the Handyman

It was easier than I expected and the whole frame is rock solid. Now I hope the rafters are as easy.


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## Wood Monkey

I love a workshop build and this one is looking great.

Just some food for thought. When I built my workshop I left the floor as bare concrete (150mm with steel over a DPM). I also went OTT with the insulation in the roof and floors as I wanted my workshop to be toasty. I didn't have any problems with the floor other than my feet always felt cold and then one day I dropped a freshly sharpened chisel on it and at that moment I decided to put T&G MR chipboard over 25mm insulation (didn't want to lose anymore height) and I can honestly say that it was the best thing I ever did in my workshop. Possibly even better than the new roof I just put on to replace the 13 year old shingles (don't use shingles...!).

It was an easy job that would have been really easy if I didn't already have all my machines in. I've just laid the concrete for a workshop extension and I'll do the same in there.

Keep the posts coming.


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## OscarG

Sorry for stupid question but when you trim the DPM you do it so it's level with the ground? So "A" in this diagram? ->


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## MikeG.

"C".....where it starts rising vertically.


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## OscarG

Oh, wasn't expecting that!

So does the DPC then come down and overlap the DPM?


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## MikeG.

No. This is one of the reasons why I have to be really careful online, because people can take the detail and erroneously apply it to an extension, where it would be non-compliant. This applies *only* to non-controllable outbuildings, and it is critical that the upper part of the slab is above ground. The DPM here is really only helping the inner part of the slab, and the outer edges dry off by being exposed. The difficulty of trying to protect a path for a continuous DPM/ DPC in a simple outbuilding is just too much. Exposed polythene is very susceptible to UV and physical damage, and would last 5 minutes if dressed up around the edge of the slab and built in under the bricks.

If you dress the DPM upwards at any point (your A or B) then water running down the face of the concrete would be trapped between the plastic and the concrete. Better to let that water go to ground, and for the edge of the slab to dry by being exposed. It's a compromise that works well, but which depends entirely on the slab being partly above ground.


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## Kris the Handyman

Mine will be partly exposed and all the rest covered in pea gravel. 

Wood Monkey - Cabershield sheets are on the cards. What insulation did you put under the sheets and does heavy machinery have an impact on the floor?


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## Wood Monkey

Hi Kris

I used a Kingspan type insulation. I battened out the area where my table saw stands just in case, but I think it was overkill. I've not noticed and sagging issues even on the regular part where I wheel my jointer out.

I'm just putting an extension on my workshop and this is going to get the same flooring.


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## flying haggis

come on Kris we need more progress pics


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## Kris the Handyman

Sorry about the delay lads. I've been flat out at work and not had much time to continue with the build (I'm self employed) but now I've taken someone on so life is a bit easier and I can crack on with the workshop.
Since the last update I have boarded up the walls and last weekend the roof went up so it's almost ready for the insulation and roof tiles. 
Now the question is do I board up the underside of the trusses that are overhanging the building or leave them exposed? Any thoughts?


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## Kris the Handyman

I'm looking at tiles and the plain concrete tiles would weight 3900kg for this roof, that's almost 4T. Would this roof take it? I think this would be a question for Mike but maybe somebody else knows


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## MikeG.

Oooh, I love a good roof build!

Give me your rafter and tie timber sizes and spacings, and I'll let you know if your roof is up to the job you are proposing.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks Mike

The ridge is 200x63mm 8m long
Rafters are 150x50mm 2.7m long (on the short side) and 3.4m long (with the big overhang)
Spacing is roughly 600mm (bar one rafter where it's slightly more)

The tiles I'm looking at at the moment would weigh around 2.5T for this roof


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## Kris the Handyman

Some progress

Roof is now tied together and bolted up. Next up will be to sheet up the underside ready for insulation and membrane


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## MikeG.

Yeah that's strong enough, although you need some solid blocking in that gable ladder. Bear in mind I'm an architect not a structural engineer, so that's an opinion, not a calculation........but I personally wouldn't hesitate to put any sort of roof tiles on that structure.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks Mike. Yes, that was also my feeling just looking how solid it feels. Thank you

That gable does need something different than in that photo, I was really tired when I got to that bit and didn't really think it through. It's Makers Central this weekend so not much will be done


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## flying haggis

Hi Kris

have you considered the fibre cement slates that Steve Maskery used on his workshop build. they would be a lot lighter for your roof (not that I think you havent built a strong frame) I think they come in at about 20kg/M2

Steves build is here if you want a good read. he mentions the slates somewhere in there!!!!

1-steve-s-workshop-the-build-t79315.html


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## Kris the Handyman

I did consider them but they would be 2x the price of the standard ones and I want to close the project in £5k. Another benefit of the heavier tiles is that they should be less likely to come off the roof with the high winds I have coming from the fields.

Would I need a vented ridge for this roof? I would have the mesh at the bottom of the wall but where would the air exit? Through the breathable membrane and in between the nooks and crannies of the tiles or through a vented ridge? I will be installing a dry ridge and I can get the vented one instead of the standard one.

Bought myself a new nail gun, 2 in fact, because I was fed up with the Dewalt one. It would hardly ever sink the 90mm nails all the way in and it would jam way too frequently for my liking. So I got myself the new Hikoki set of 1st and 2nd fix nail guns. What a difference! Night and day. Highly recommend lads


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## Kris the Handyman

Just a quick update on the build. I had a bit more time and what's more important the help of a good friend of mine so there is a bit of progress on the build

All walls and roof now covered in OSB, then insulation added to the roof, membrane put on and a window put in so the building is now dry inside. 
I then ordered the roof tiles but I wasn't happy with them so returned them and went with fibre cement slates, in my opinion they look 100 times better and are lighter. Only downside is that they are more expensive.
I will be fitting a roof window next weekend and continue with the tiling


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## MikeG.

Excellent. Looks great.


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## Kris the Handyman

Mike, I bought shiplap and now I was wondering:
a) does the same rule of nailing apply to shiplap as on your boards? eg. one nail per board about 35mm from the bottom of the board?
b) I'm buying some expensive paint for it. Do I need to paint both sides or would priming the internal side be enough and all the rest for the outside?

Cheers


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## MikeG.

The nailing rule is the same. What paint did you buy? The use of the word "primer" worries me a little, because the best paints (microporous, flexible, water-based) don't require priming, but simply a thinned first coat.


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## Kris the Handyman

Thanks for confirming that Mike

As for the paint I always use an undercoat, especially externally. Zinsser is my usual go to undercoat. The paint that I'm planning to get for the workshop is this Jotun one:
Jotun paint
and it does say that it requires an undercoat on any bare wood with this undercoat:
Jotun primer
So now the question is whether the anti fungal primer will be enough for the internal side of the ship lap or does it need a top coat?


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## MikeG.

I absolutely would not use that paint. It's your project, though, and your choice.


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## Kris the Handyman

Any reason why not?


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## DBT85

Kris, did you make it to the end?


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