# Tablesaw, tracksaw, bench..... opinions please!



## baldkev (30 Dec 2021)

Hi all,
I have a shipping container for a workshop. I am a site carpenter but have always wanted a space of my own, so about 18 months ago i did it. 

Its about 2.3?? M wide internally.... so a bit cramped for width. Plenty long enough. ( 40ft ) 

Anyway, today i started my next job, a shelving unit for a tapered alcove and a set of built in cupboards. In the past i used to do this on site ( most if my customers have enough space )

But today, i found my multico was lacking width to the fence. I can just squeeze 500mm between fence and blade. I do have rail extensions and a more basic 'fence' that can extend it ( came with the saw ) but as you'll see, there isnt room to fit it! I also have a dw745 tablesaw, with goes to 630mm and fits in the same width space because its blade is nearer the left. So i had to set it up level with the multico and use the dw site saw. That got me thinking again about a tracksaw etc. 

Should i sell the multico, build a level bench with an area up front for the dw?? I could then buy the tracksaw to aid breaking down sheet goods and full width cuts and still retain a tablesaw. 
The bench could have a few dog holes at 90° with a batten along the back edge for quick 90s over 400mm ( ive got a radial arm saw )

The only thing the multico is better for than the dw is depth of cut. Both have similar power, the fence setup on the dw is significantly better and dust extraction on the dw is far better.....
I dont often cut 4" timber, but i have a few times. Think the dw tops out at 80mm?


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## baldkev (30 Dec 2021)

Worth adding ive got a couple more built ins coming up and i want to make my own kitchen. The dw is my site saw, but since i bought a big makita cordless mitre saw, i rarely move both in my truck at the same time, so the dw mostly lives in my shed now


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## Jameshow (30 Dec 2021)

Nice set up considering the space. 
Two table saws is too many - the master carpenter says so... I'll be down in a jiffy. 

Some table saws have a folding Rh extension. I'd sell both and get that. 

Narrow when you don't need it but wide when required. 

Does the DW use an induction motor? 

Cheers James


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## Doug71 (30 Dec 2021)

You don't have a track saw  Honestly get yourself one, they are made for breaking down sheet goods, absolutely fantastic for making things like built ins.

Regarding the saws I would keep both but I'm the wrong person to ask, I have 2 saws, 2 mortisers and 2 planer thicknessers, it's always good to have a spare just in case


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## baldkev (30 Dec 2021)

Doug71 said:


> You don't have a track saw


Nope.... when they came out and were uber popular ( and more expensive ) i was a subcontractor 100% of the time ( to a few builders ) and being on hourly, why pay out to make a job quicker for someone else? 

Ive got 2 makita 18v circular saws and I usually use a straightedge and clamps, but they dont plunge, which isnt a massive thing, and the extraction is poor.... i do a few kitchens ( howdens usually ) per year, but i find as long as i use good quality and new blades, i get great cuts, so after a kitchen job, the circular saw black gets relegated to site work. I usually get 3 trend blades for 30 quid off ebay, for the price they are a great balance.


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## baldkev (30 Dec 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Does the DW use an induction motor?


Dunno! The internet says its a direct drive brushed motor. I imagine for the size and weight, its universal and induction dont have brushes? So must be universal....

Its a site saw ( portable ) so i wouldnt sell it. Its fantastic for the money


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## Hornbeam (3 Jan 2022)

If its 40ft long you must have a lot more space not shown in the picture. I would keep the multico and turn the outfeed table into an FRT type table for use with a tracksaw. You can then use the track saw for sheet materials but also set up for crosscutting on longer lengths


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## Chunkytfg (6 Jan 2022)

Track saw is exactly what you want! Add a MFT table and a set of parallel guides and you'll probably never use a table saw on sheet goods again.

Also worth looking at Woby designs on Youtube. He makes stuff out of recycled skateboards but up until last year was working out a shipping container using a full size table saw. It can be done but just needs proper storage. 

If it was me I'd be getting absolutely everything you can up in the air! Anything on the ground just takes up what limited space you have.


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## jcassidy (6 Jan 2022)

Peter Millard appears to have a similar sized workshop, albeit I don't think he has a thicknesser/planer. He has a vid going over his setup and why.

I'll add my voice that a tracksaw is for breaking down sheet goods, I only got a cheap one recently but its already had a tonne of use on built-in stuff. Cheap is good for DIY. I don't trust myself with a table saw so the circular saw is used plenty.


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## southendwoodworker (6 Jan 2022)

I am curious about the sound.

How do you find the sound whilst working in there? Power tools and banging things with a hammer?

If you close the doors, can you hear the table saw outsite?

My garden shed lets the noise out, which means I can only use it at the same time I am meant to be doing my desk job, but I'd prefer to be able to do noisey stuff late at night 8pm-2am without annoying the neighbours. If your container stops the noise escaping it gives me something to think about.


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## Louie10 (6 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Hi all,
> I have a shipping container for a workshop. I am a site carpenter but have always wanted a space of my own, so about 18 months ago i did it.
> 
> Its about 2.3?? M wide internally.... so a bit cramped for width. Plenty long enough. ( 40ft )
> ...


I have to say your shop is pretty amazing mate, a shipping container as you say offers plenty of length but width ismtricky, but you have somehow worked 9ut a great layout, think long and hard about parting with the older cast saw, I am blessed with a Laguna fusion 3 but even with her 3hp a deep cut can take time, I am a cabinet maker myself and I tend to use the bandsaw for the deeper timbers and resawing, a crisp sharp blade on either the bandsaw or cabinet saw makes the world of difference, you will I am sure solve your problems, but your workshop looks great, best of luck pal, louie UlsterWorksop


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## baldkev (6 Jan 2022)

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. Ive got someone coming for the multico tomorrow..... rightly or wrongly, i decided to set the dewalt into a bench about 3m long, 1m wide, that'll allow me to put sheets on it and rip down in either direction. It'll overhang on the width by about 300mm i guess, because I'll have to have room for the tracksaw to get through the cut etc. The dewalt will be set to the left, allowing full rip capacity.

The multico blade is 130ish mm more to the right, so without moving it, i just cant cut the width i need. I put a used 24tooth blade in the dw and tested it against the multico. There isnt any difference in speed of cut and the dewalt didnt slow down. The biggest difference is height of cut. The multico can squeeze 110mm, the dewalt 80ish. 60mm sapele and 55mm oak went through just fine.



Hornbeam said:


> If its 40ft long you must have a lot more space not shown in the picture


Yep, ive got a trike, spindle, radial arm saw and morticer not in the piks 



jcassidy said:


> I'll add my voice that a tracksaw is for breaking down sheet goods,


I considered building a wall panel saw using the 3m and 1.5m tracks, but i think a bigger bench with a few well llaced do holes will do, plus a batten along the back which the sheets will sit against, dog holes at 90 to that reference batten....



southendwoodworker said:


> I am curious about the sound.



The doors do not fully close. They are levered shut on the outside, but thats not possible inside. I built a quick and dirty latch, but theres always a 30ish mm gap. Ive considered a site door welded in, but the kit ones ate actually only 1.5mm or 2mm sheet and ive seen how easy a tealeaf can get through those. My doors have 3 very good locks, set in lockboxes. A petrol cutter will get in but it'll take a good few minutes and a lot of noise, then they'll have to face my special suprise 

With the doors mostly shut, you can hear noise but its not that bad.
Inside is fine. Obviously banging metal against the container would loud, but chiselling timber etc is the same as normal, and i wear ear defenders for machines, but doesn't seem louder than normal. With a side door instead, which would seal, and main doors shut, it would definitely reduce noise. Especially if it was lined out. You need at the minimum, the roof insulated, preferably walls too, but then you need to be careful about dust extraction as most bagged units actually expel a lot of very fine dust, which is harmful.


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## baldkev (6 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> I am a cabinet maker myself and I tend to use the bandsaw for the deeper timbers


Thanks for the comments  
I have a startrite 352 that ive just bought, in the process of refining and setting up.
Interestingly, regarding blades, once i tested the dewalt and decided to sell the multico, i ordered some new freud blades for the dewalt in case i need a deep cut. The dewalt has far better dust collection. I figured that if i decide to get another cast unit at some point I'll pony up and get something with a better fence system and i really love those saws with the small scribing blade! Although i dont REALLY need it..... 



Chunkytfg said:


> If it was me I'd be getting absolutely everything you can up in the air! Anything on the ground just takes up what limited space you have.



Yep, ive started trying to organise myself. Over the last 12 to 18 months i got fed up of moving tools into the container and then forgetting to load the back in the truck, so i ended up getting more kit 
Im terrible for using bench space as a place for dumping stuff and then spending ages moving things around, so i welded some bolts to the container and started building some units. So far it has definitely reduced the kit layingbaround and ive found im managing to keep the screwdrivers etc in their boxes and actually putting it away after use..... got a couple more to build and then theres going to be a lot of storage options under the new table.....

One thing i struggle with is materials. Ive got a 30ft container with a lathe, trailer, tower scaffolds, mixer etc and building materials, but its not properly dry and condensates a lot in winter, so anything i want to keep nice and dry has to stay in the workshop ( i use a dehumidifier )


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## Doug71 (6 Jan 2022)

Kev, saw this tonight and thought of you.


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## baldkev (7 Jan 2022)

Thanks doug. My journey with this was not well thought out. Or at least very rushed. I was in the middle of a job when i bought the workshop one but had to move a load of stuff into it, so i put down 1" celotex and 11mm osb on the floor, then moved some stuff in. I got quotes on spray foam insulation, i found kits on the internet cheaper, but still about 700 quid to do the walls and ceiling! Long story short i ended up with condensation as the winter arrived and it became a battle. I spray foamed celotex to the roof and got a dehumidifier in there which has sorted it. I wish i had framed it out at the start.

I'll get photos tomorrow when im there. Ultimately it all comes down to money. One day I'll replace the storage container with a better one and do that one properly, move the kit into it and use the workshop one as a store.


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## TRITON (7 Jan 2022)

tracksaw - Requires a flat surface to lay it on, so 8x4 minimum.
Is your workbench or space able to accommodate a flat 8x4 sheet ?.

Or
You arrive at your unit, and push through the board into the unit through your table saw giving you the 2x 608mm to further work on. A lot easier working on a half sheet than a full one.
Alternatively, you manhandle the sheet into your workshop. Struggle to get it lying flat, after first removing _*everything*_ that might impede it, and with no doubt one side hanging precariously over the edge, you set up a tracksaw on it. Make the cut into two boards and the one you've just cut is difficult as you need to hold the sheet, be in control of the saw and make sure the track doesnt slide off, as the chances are your bench will be 2 feet wide, and half the board will now be hanging in the breeze or likely balanced on some sort of shaky support.
Of course you're going to need a minimum of 7 feet in the width to be able to operate the saw safely. By the looks of it you're going to be sitting on top of your planer/thicknesser to be able to work the saw.

Tracksaws are for people who dont have the room for a table saw. And before anyone whines its used in industry, mainly shopfitting. Shopfitters have workshops too with bloody great panel saws in them.


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## sometimewoodworker (7 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> tracksaw - Requires a flat surface to lay it on, so 8x4 minimum.
> Is your workbench or space able to accommodate a flat 8x4 sheet ?.
> 
> Or
> ...


Most of your information is either wrong or a gross exaggeration and obviously written as blatantly anti-tracksaw along with a suggestion that makes no sense if you want accurate cuts (ripping the sheet first on a table saw).

My main workbench is 1.2m x 1.7m. 1.2m is more than is needed and it could be 1 metre with no problem.

Why would you think that a width extension (if it is needed) would be shaky? Most half decent woodworkers are perfectly capable of building a solidly based workbench extension if the need is there for one.

A sheet of solid polystyrene insulation layer on top of a bench that may include the remaining saw makes an excellent cutting surface, and why would that be a struggle?

Why do you imagine/claim that you need 2.3meters width to rip a 1.4 metre board? 1.6~1.7 is plenty.

Why do you imagine that you need to hold either of pieces you have cut? That is what the cutting surface does.

Why do you think that the tracks are going to slide? That is what track clamps are for.

Why do you think that you can accurately rip a sheet of material 608mm wide, it could be 60kg, by attempting to run it through a table saw when you are over 2.5 metres away from the beginning of the cut? That can be done but it is neither easy nor pleasant to try. it is however a simple job for a track saw, but then it is also unnecessary as you would rip the exact widths needed for the job so not wasting material.

My workshop has more than enough room for a humongous table saw (usual free space is between 10 and 20 square metres, more if I move stuff around). there is a brand of Chinese table saws that are good quality not expensive and easily available here I don’t have or want one.

I do have a TS55 along with tracks that can extend to about 4 metres if I want. I also have parallel guides so if I want several pieces exactly the same width it’s easy

I do have a tiny table saw the table is 370mm X 480mm rip width is about 300mm it doesn’t tilt but has a good 10” blade


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## TRITON (7 Jan 2022)

The thread is for baldkevs workshop. See it in the pic ?. here I'll lend you my glasses if you need them 
So im looking at the space KEV has. Not you, not your amazing 1.2mx1.7m.1.2m bench. This one of course being your _main_ workbench. not to be confused with your _other _workbenches, in your 20m square shop.

Can you see a 1.2m deep bench in there ?
I cant. I'd say what is there is no greater than 3', though probably closer to 30"
So.....
what about if you were to take in an 8'x4' sheet and lay it flat on the bench we can clearly see isnt 1.2mx1.7m.1.2m.
How much room would it take up.
Where would Kev stand to be able to operate the saw.
How much of the 8'x4' sheet would overhang.


I too have a tracksaw
and a sawbench
and a handheld circular saw
And a cross cut saw
And assorted handsaws

So im not bias, im just looking at the room he has, the placement of his machinery and how I would tackle such a task.

@Kev - sorry for the hijack, one member didnt quite see the point. to be sure your shop looks bigger than the 120sq feet my place is. And certainly not as tidy


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## clogs (7 Jan 2022)

just get a temp cover for the rain and cutup sheet materials outside....
plenty of fold up ally framed covers.....
Take a look at this young mans container....


good luck......

Ps I was tought to cut up sheet materials with a sraight edge and a couple of clamps, also useing the saw off set jig, just a peice of ply.....in California....sometimes 6-10 sheets at a time....
my straight edge is years old and served me well.....can be used with any old circ saw.....
prefer to spend my money on other stuff....
might be dif if I was starting out tho.....


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## Doug71 (7 Jan 2022)

As said he could do what we all do on site and just cut the sheet up on the floor outside with his tracksaw.

If he's organised he could do it inside on the floor, it doesn't take up that much space as you tend to cut them whilst kneeling on the sheet, you don't need the space to be able to walk around it.


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## TRITON (7 Jan 2022)

Doug71 said:


> As said he could do what we all do on site and just cut the sheet up on the floor outside with his tracksaw.
> 
> If he's organised he could do it inside on the floor, it doesn't take up that much space as you tend to cut them whilst kneeling on the sheet, you don't need the space to be able to walk around it.


What would probably be better. For space and for safety is a vertical panel saw for sheet material. And plenty of YT vids on making one. Certainly easier to manhandle the board onto the the saw and it takes up little to no room.
eg - though theres other examples not as long


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## baldkev (7 Jan 2022)

I did consider a wall mounted panel saw setup but id still have to leavebthe area clear, so i settled on a bench. Total width will be around 1m by 3m long.

I do currently cut sheets outside then bring them in, but not great in winter. Im pretty good with my tablesaw, but crosscutting is often the issue. Its a hightop container which helps.

I think having the bench , tracksaw and built-in tablesaw will cover it.....

This is the space:

Yep i know i need to tidy up!  Theres more wall units ready to be assembled and the space under the bench will be good storage
To be fair im in the middle of something


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## sometimewoodworker (7 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> The thread is for baldkevs workshop. See it in the pic ?. here I'll lend you my glasses if you need them
> So im looking at the space KEV has. Not you, not your amazing 1.2mx1.7m.1.2m bench. This one of course being your main workbench. not to be confused with your other workbenches, in your 20m square shop.



Do please read what has been posted before getting your panties in a bunch. Or are you being deliberately argumentative?
In this thread I have not said what size my workshop is nor is it really important apart from the point that it is not a small/tiny one and my main tool for cutting sheet material is a tracksaw.
Nor yet have I said that I have a 1.2x1.7x1.2 workbench. Or is the full stop to small to notice? Neither do I claim it is amazing.

I mention the size to illustrate that you have no need of a workbench or cutting station as big as the full sheet you are cutting 

For the cut itself you need the width + about 600mm. For the cutting surface, the width - about 600mm~800mm. These numbers envisages an island, for a cutting surface against a wall it would need to be larger 




TRITON said:


> Can you see a 1.2m deep bench in there ?


No, but why does there have to be one now?



TRITON said:


> I cant. I'd say what is there is no greater than 3', though probably closer to 30"
> So.....
> what about if you were to take in an 8'x4' sheet and lay it flat on the bench we can clearly see isnt 1.2mx1.7m.1.2m.
> How much room would it take up.
> ...


You do remember that one item is being sold do you?

You do remember that a workshop is not fixed in its current layout permanently?
That buying tools can mean that the workshop is capable of being reorganised?




TRITON said:


> I too have a tracksaw
> and a sawbench
> and a handheld circular saw
> And a cross cut saw
> ...


well you are looking from the view of a 120 sq foot workshop. Kev has about 300 sq feet and can reorder his tools and shop if he wants. Your post certainly seems biased in the way you have written it. Though it could be that your tracks do slide around and that you do have to support one of the strips you cut, if that's the case it says things about your setup and tool rather than a more usual one.

My workshop is a bit larger than either yours or Kev's. To repeat myself. I have or can reorganise the free space to put in a table saw, I could also afford one without too much difficulty. I chose not to. I use a track saw and rails (they don't slip BTW) to cut my sheet goods


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## sometimewoodworker (7 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> I did consider a wall mounted panel saw setup but id still have to leavebthe area clear, so i settled on a bench. Total width will be around 1m by 3m long.



if you are building your tablesaw into the bench, it’s going to work, though you may find you need to be able to extend the width a bit. If it’s only for cutting sheet goods it’s a bit longer than needed, but when has anyone found they have too much horizontal space  

If you are going to do a lot of cross-cutting then an MFT style flip down rail is very convenient, though for me it is too spendy and there are other ways to do the same job.


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## TRITON (7 Jan 2022)

sometimewoodworker said:


> Do please read what has been posted before getting your panties in a bunch. Or are you being deliberately argumentative?


Deliberately ?. Not really, just didnt see how your big workshop equated to Kev's so as an example of where to cut sheets it wasnt a fair comparison. Of course that would be ideal, but in this case it wasnt,so posting it was nonsensical.
As to getting upset. You started that buddy " Most of your information is either wrong or a gross exaggeration and obviously written as blatantly anti-tracksaw along with a suggestion that makes no sense if you want accurate cuts (ripping the sheet first on a table saw). "
There is two camps, track saws are good but saw benches are better, and not only better but more versatile. Each obviously has its place in a workshop
Personally I cannot stand clowns who hark on constantly about tracksaws being the be all end all and thats all you need and saw benches are rubbish. Once you started on that nonsense I stopped taking your answer seriously.
Anyway, this is kevs thread. so ill leaving it at that.


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## baldkev (7 Jan 2022)

All opinions / suggestions are valid. Whatever works for 1 person may not suit another.

I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds. The reason for the 3m bench is so the 2.4m sheet can fit on there without being over the tablesaw, so i won't be risking cutting into it with the tracksaw when im not paying enough attention 
More seriously though, I'll route out a hole for my router plate so i can have another place to set up the router.

I'll make myself a very square square to set the track with for crosscuts over 600, anything under that can be covered by dog holes to align the track ( or use my radial arm saw...... or tablesaw  )


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## baldkev (7 Jan 2022)

@clogs 
Sorry it took a while to respond, i just got round to watching the video. I like the idea of using the doors to store stuff, i could do that with the slave door easy enough. 

He certainly likes his plywood!


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## sometimewoodworker (8 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> I'm hoping to get the best of both worlds. The reason for the 3m bench is so the 2.4m sheet can fit on there without being over the tablesaw, so i won't be risking cutting into it with the tracksaw when im not paying enough attention


many people, myself included, use a polystyrene or other rigid insulation sheet to cut on. mine are 20mm thick (note to self time for new ones) this means that it is remarkably difficult to cut into the bench, but also improves dust collection. In my case it means that I have a bench top with very little damage so I probably will not need to ever replace it.


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## sometimewoodworker (8 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> Deliberately ?. Not really, just didnt see how your big workshop equated to Kev's so as an example of where to cut sheets it wasnt a fair comparison. Of course that would be ideal, but in this case it wasnt,so posting it was nonsensical.


Not nonsensical at all it was directly on point as along with the information that, as written was distinctly anti tracksaw (despite your having one yourself) you wrote 


TRITON said:


> Tracksaws are for people who dont have the room for a table saw.


I do have room for a table saw, (I could probably even find space to fit in one with a sliding table that would take full sheets) and I use a tracksaw mostly because it’s the better tool for the job and the cost benefit of even a more modest table saw is not there for me. That is the same reason that I don’t, and won’t, have an MFT. I don’t have unlimited money to spend as I have to keep SWMBO happy (she just bought a V12 vacuum and last year a Mazda 2) 

For others, specially if making enough same sized pieces, both may be good options, even more so if they make money with them.


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## TRITON (8 Jan 2022)

No mate, you read it again
" Most of your information is either wrong or a gross exaggeration and obviously written as blatantly anti-tracksaw along with a suggestion that makes no sense if you want accurate cuts (ripping the sheet first on a table saw).
Your use of language towards me was off, which is why I reacted so.
'Blatantly' and 'Gross exaggeration' , and that I make no sense; so therefore must be a fool or something who doesnt know how to rip timber..
Blatantly anti anything is not exactly how you should be writing out replies in a 'them or us' type of nonsense.


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## sometimewoodworker (8 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> No mate, you read it again
> " Most of your information is either wrong or a gross exaggeration and obviously written as blatantly anti-tracksaw along with a suggestion that makes no sense if you want accurate cuts (ripping the sheet first on a table saw).
> Your use of language towards me was off, which is why I reacted so.
> 'Blatantly' and 'Gross exaggeration' , and that I make no sense; so therefore must be a fool or something who doesnt know how to rip timber..
> Blatantly anti anything is not exactly how you should be writing out replies in a 'them or us' type of nonsense.


Well this is a debate where my responses to you are going to end with this reply. 

I absolutely stand by the idea that trying to make an accurate rip cut of 2.4 meters length on either of Kev’s saws makes no sense, the one he sold couldn’t split a full sheet (he said max 500mm on the fence), controlling 30kg (moderate thickness sheet) through the blade to give an accurate glue ready cut starting 2.4 meters from the beginning is extremely difficult if it is possible at all while using a tracksaw it is trivial and I do it all the time on my projects. A honking great sliding table saw can do it, a site saw probably never.

I hold no responsibility for you misinterpreting my comment on the proposed rip cutting method to be a comment on your abilities, I don’t know your abilities, or the tracks and saw that you use I still do not comment on your abilities but if your description of the difficulties of using a track saw in anyway relates to your own experience then you have a bad saw with worse tracks.

for years my workshop space was about 30 square feet + 30 square feet it’s only in the last 4 years I have got my many times larger purpose built workshop with an attached finishing room 5m X 5m so I know the joys of working in a shoe box and now an aircraft hanger (a tiny aircraft hanger to suit a microlight aircraft to be sure but it would still fit)


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

sometimewoodworker said:


> many people, myself included, use a polystyrene or other rigid insulation sheet to cut on. mine are 20mm thick (note to self time for new ones) this means that it is remarkably difficult to cut into the bench, but also improves dust collection. In my case it means that I have a bench top with very little damage so I probably will not need to ever replace it.


Thats interesting, how did it improve dust collection?
I figured I'd have 18mm mrmdf, followed by 6mm sacraficial on top.



Just to be clear guys, arguing is pointless. Its fine to have a different opinion, we are all different people, so hug and make up. Or go join the arguments section of the forum and fight it out there 
Thanks for everyones input


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## TRITON (8 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> . Or go join the arguments section of the forum and fight it out there



Theres an arguments section ???  Do I see Jacob or Artie as the moderator for it 

You are absolutely 100% on the spot, and I apologize it taking up space in your thread, only I just dont like folk making implications and speaking to me in an unwarranted fashion.
Clearly it got out of hand a tad.

So I hope your choice of saw suits your needs in such a small shop. heavens knows we cant all operate out of aircraft hangers

Only kidding


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

Arguments are a part of life and its often how things get resolved, but sometimes it pointless. Years ago i was on a car forum ( in my early 20s, when the internet was still young ) and it ended up with me doing battle with another member all the time. One day i logged on ready for the latest fight and I realised that it had become a regular 'thing'
I didnt log on again and i didnt miss it.

I did ask for peoples opinions and i got what i wanted. I think if i had a wider space I'd get a wider cast machine, but my situation isnt going to change for a long time ( money ) so I'll try with the combination. Luckily the dewalt is a fantastic little saw, so if i build the base / table well and have a way to lock it down, it'll be fine..... plus selling the multico oays for the tracksaw. The guy didnt turn up yesterday, had to take his dog to the vets. Hopefully monday. If not, ive got 4 or 5 other people who want it. Maybe its cheap?  I put it on for 520, to get about 500 after haggling


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## sometimewoodworker (8 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Thats interesting, how did it improve dust collection?
> I figured I'd have 18mm mrmdf, followed by 6mm sacraficial on top.


My bench has an MFT style set of 20mm holes at 96mm centres so the polystyrene acts in the same way as your 6mm sacrificial top will do but it’s lots cheaper and creates zero wear on the saw teeth. The improvements of dust collection comes from having a solid (non holly) surface. It is also very easy to take off when the bench is being used for holding down items or as an assembly table. You may find that your 6mm top does the same job. Is it going to be removable?

I settled on polystyrene as it’s easily available locally and the only 6mm MDF requires a trip of between 50km and 550km one way


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## Spectric (8 Jan 2022)

When you watch Peter Millards video's he seems to do ok with a tracksaw in his tight compact space and I think most of the issues can be resolved with careful organisation. You also see a lot of videos where people are using PIR insulation as something to cut on using a tracksaw and


sometimewoodworker said:


> creates zero wear on the saw teeth.


I would also say that @baldkev there is a lot of good info if you search these forums with regards to tracksaws unless you have already been there.


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

sometimewoodworker said:


> but it’s lots cheaper and creates zero wear on the saw teeth


Yep it'll be removable but pinned down somehow. I'll probably avoid screws for obvious reasons. The back section can be pinned down with the batten, just needs a 6mm rebate. The zero wear is a good point. I was aiming at having it sacraficial so i dont need to move a sheet around and store it. 



Spectric said:


> When you watch Peter Millards video's he seems to do ok with a tracksaw in his tight compact space



Yep, I believe he often gets things cut by his supplier to save splitting large sheets. I have read a few of the tracksaw/ mft threads, i dont think I'll go full mft, but you never know. At the moment i can see a few well placed dog holes would be great and I'll set up a few for stops whilst sanding etc.


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## Spectric (8 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> i dont think I'll go full mft, but you never know. At the moment i can see a few well placed dog holes would be great


That is how I have gone, rather than a worktop full of holes for things to fall through I use a top with holes that sits on top of my main bench but only when I need it and I also have put in dovetail slots for using Microjig clamps and fixtures which gives even better versatility and is a better option than ali track. The holes with dogs gives both alignment and restraint whilst the Microjig clamps provide a flexable clamping solution. 

Take a look at this video, I first came across these when looking at the Hooked on wood site and Dennis's great bench, also worth watching.


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

Ahhh cool. I'll check the vids out in a bit


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## Louie10 (8 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> tracksaw - Requires a flat surface to lay it on, so 8x4 minimum.
> Is your workbench or space able to accommodate a flat 8x4 sheet ?.
> 
> Or
> ...


Hi Triton you make some great points of which I agree with. I am a cabinet maker based here in Northern Ireland and I am blessed to have both a good cabinet saw and a rail saw. The 55 is very good at dealing with sheet material and most thinner repeatable long cuts I do prefer to use the Fusion3. In my humble opinion it's nice to have both machines, the big Laguna is scary accurate and will produce highly accurate long cuts all day long but resizing a full sheet really is a good deal safer with the TS55. You are correct that a good Bench's that's flat is needed and of course the room to work the sheet. If you have the room then save your pennys and have both. Louie


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

Dagnabbitt spectric, now youve thrown my plans into doubt!

I like the matchfit bits, looks to be a good idea.
How much lip do rail clamps have? If they fit in a t slot, they could be an option....

I like the front apron also having the slots. Another option could be to make an L shaped bench extension which attaches to the bench via a vertical dovetail runner ( but at 1m wide, I'll probably cope! )


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

Or, would the rail clamps slot nicely into a dovetail hole?

Edit to say, i know they arent dovetail shaped, but thinking if they fit within a dovetail shaped slot, i wouldnt need to buy other kit ( im tight )


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## Mickjay (8 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Or, would the rail clamps slot nicely into a dovetail hole?
> 
> Edit to say, i know they arent dovetail shaped, but thinking if they fit within a dovetail shaped slot, i wouldnt need to buy other kit ( im tight )


Axminster sell a router bit for cutting slots for rail clamps, much cheaper than microjig if you already have rail clamps.


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## baldkev (8 Jan 2022)

Ah  
Im about to buy a tracksaw, so will have the clamps.


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Yep it'll be removable but pinned down somehow. I'll probably avoid screws for obvious reasons. The back section can be pinned down with the batten, just needs a 6mm rebate. The zero wear is a good point. I was aiming at having it sacraficial so i dont need to move a sheet around and store it.


my polystyrene sheets are only about 400mm wide by 1200mm long so with some cloth tape they concertina easily so I lust have a 400mm block and a smooth mostly unmarked bench/assembly top you can easily cut a full sheet of insulation down to mimic my setup.



baldkev said:


> Yep, I believe he often gets things cut by his supplier to save splitting large sheets. I have read a few of the tracksaw/ mft threads, i dont think I'll go full mft, but you never know. At the moment i can see a few well placed dog holes would be great and I'll set up a few for stops whilst sanding etc.


if you have a little extra cash then the Parf guide is a good investment as when setting up your bench top you can put in a grid of 3mm holes with it very quickly and easily, this allows for you to have all the accuracy of the Festool grid system but you are able to enlarge only the dog holes you need and additional ones are trivial to add anytime you want.
It also means that you can add them to other items. Some of my items are here this was from 2013 & I keep adding in some other things. BTW the workmate stops are a perfect fit


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## TRITON (9 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> Hi Triton you make some great points of which I agree with. I am a cabinet maker based here in Northern Ireland and I am blessed to have both a good cabinet saw and a rail saw. The 55 is very good at dealing with sheet material and most thinner repeatable long cuts I do prefer to use the Fusion3. In my humble opinion it's nice to have both machines, the big Laguna is scary accurate and will produce highly accurate long cuts all day long but resizing a full sheet really is a good deal safer with the TS55. You are correct that a good Bench's that's flat is needed and of course the room to work the sheet. If you have the room then save your pennys and have both. Louie


Hi Lou.
I agree wholeheartedly. each tool has its place in our inventory(im also a qualified cabinetmaker)
One of the main issues is on this type of thread is fanbois. Or blinkered fanbois to be exact.
Any talk about tablesaws is a screeching noise to their ears and they want to fight you tooth and nail should you recommend the table over the track.
I think they all see themselves as German shopfitters or something, resplendent in their black and red waistcoats and tool pockets. To them that is the epitome of cabinetry.

Good choice of saw, currently theyre the favoured brand for the pro furniture maker and actually not badly priced either. Took a look at something to compare to the festool price wise(Fusion 2), but for me its more about space than having a nice big cast iron saw.


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## Louie10 (9 Jan 2022)

TRITON said:


> Hi Lou.
> I agree wholeheartedly. each tool has its place in our inventory(im also a qualified cabinetmaker)
> One of the main issues is on this type of thread is fanbois. Or blinkered fanbois to be exact.
> Any talk about tablesaws is a screeching noise to their ears and they want to fight you tooth and nail should you recommend the table over the track.
> ...


I enjoyed your reply Triton you did make me smile, being opened minded is important personal speaking I have slot to learn mate so your advice and others is great for me. Your opinion would be valued on my next possible purchase. I am toying with maybe buying a long rail for my 55 probably. The 2700 basically for sheet goods of course. I am not happy with the price and what's worse I was reading an article where a fella bought the festool long rail only to find it wasn't straight out by about 3mm and he claimed that festool said that in their opinion this was within exceptable tolerances! So I am not sure and then of course the makita track rail is considerably cheaper but again some say not in the same league in terms of build quality to festool your opinion I would value. Regards Lou.


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## Doug71 (9 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> I enjoyed your reply Triton you did make me smile, being opened minded is important personal speaking I have slot to learn mate so your advice and others is great for me. Your opinion would be valued on my next possible purchase. I am toying with maybe buying a long rail for my 55 probably. The 2700 basically for sheet goods of course. I am not happy with the price and what's worse I was reading an article where a fella bought the festool long rail only to find it wasn't straight out by about 3mm and he claimed that festool said that in their opinion this was within exceptable tolerances! So I am not sure and then of course the makita track rail is considerably cheaper but again some say not in the same league in terms of build quality to festool your opinion I would value. Regards Lou.



Louie, if you are thinking of getting the 2.7m rail it might be worth spending a bit more and getting the 3m. The extra bit of length means it's not as fiddly setting it up, also handy if you ever need to cut down a sheet at an angle.

I have a 3m Festool rail and it's dead straight, the first one that got delivered wasn't though but that was the fault of the couriers


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> I enjoyed your reply Triton you did make me smile, being opened minded is important personal speaking I have slot to learn mate so your advice and others is great for me. Your opinion would be valued on my next possible purchase. I am toying with maybe buying a long rail for my 55 probably. The 2700 basically for sheet goods of course. I am not happy with the price and what's worse I was reading an article where a fella bought the festool long rail only to find it wasn't straight out by about 3mm and he claimed that festool said that in their opinion this was within exceptable tolerances! So I am not sure and then of course the makita track rail is considerably cheaper but again some say not in the same league in terms of build quality to festool your opinion I would value. Regards Lou.


What I use is the Betterly straight line jig I have a 1400mm, a 1010 holly rail and 2 800mm rails and 2 Festool rail joining sets, the Betterly jig guarantees that I have a perfectly straight combination of rails every time. In my opinion the 2,700mm and 3,000mm rails only make sense if you are very frequently ripping full sheets, have a safe storage place and can inspect the rails prior to purchase. FWIW here there is no guarantee that the rail will even reach you without getting bent in transit! And the import agents will not cover damage by any courier company, so you are SOL if it’s not perfect!


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## Spectric (9 Jan 2022)

The problem with ali track is that it can go east to west or north to south but cannot cross, with the dovetail slots you can have fences that can take any angle by running diagonally across the slots. Ali track unless it has the dovetail profile is also more prone to be jacked out of it's slot if just screwed down.

For me the actual clamps are so useful, do not need space behind and easy to slide into place and clamp your work down. With a front apron you can work round a corner easily. The clamps also fit into the Makita tracksaw track if you need to clamp that down, cannot say if they fit other tracks though but this also means the Makita clamps might be a cheaper option if they have the same profile, the track is a square slot compared to the dovetail shape of the other.


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## Louie10 (9 Jan 2022)

sometimewoodworker said:


> What I use is the Betterly straight line jig I have a 1400mm, a 1010 holly rail and 2 800mm rails and 2 Festool rail joining sets, the Betterly jig guarantees that I have a perfectly straight combination of rails every time. In my opinion the 2,700mm and 3,000mm rails only make sense if you are very frequently ripping full sheets, have a safe storage place and can inspect the rails prior to purchase. FWIW here there is no guarantee that the rail will even reach you without getting bent in transit! And the import agents will not cover damage by any courier company, so you are SOL if it’s not perfect!


Thankyou pal for your input, you make very valid points here, I work mainly with hardwoods, usually white oak but i do resize a few sheets throughout the year, I have thought often of investing in a longer rail the 2700, but a recent comment from a fellow carpenter online scared me in respect that his long rail wasn't straight, infact out by 3mm! He claimed then that festool declared it was within tolerances which surprises me as Festool have always set the bar so high! Thankyou again buddy andi will look 8nto this item you mention. Kind regards Louie


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## Louie10 (9 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> The problem with ali track is that it can go east to west or north to south but cannot cross, with the dovetail slots you can have fences that can take any angle by running diagonally across the slots. Ali track unless it has the dovetail profile is also more prone to be jacked out of it's slot if just screwed down.
> 
> For me the actual clamps are so useful, do not need space behind and easy to slide into place and clamp your work down. With a front apron you can work round a corner easily. The clamps also fit into the Makita tracksaw track if you need to clamp that down, cannot say if they fit other tracks though but this also means the Makita clamps might be a cheaper option if they have the same profile, the track is a square slot compared to the dovetail shape of the other.


Great advice buddy, I am now looking at the Betterly Jig, again its expensive and with the connectors another 1400 rail and the jig 8ts really just as cheap for a long rail option so not sure which Avenue to go down now! Lol. Louie


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> Thankyou again buddy andi will look 8nto this item you mention. Kind regards Louie


the makers are here Betterly  I got mine virtually as soon as it was released, years ago, and it works as perfectly now as it did then


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## baldkev (9 Jan 2022)

Do the 3m rails come in a wooden box? I thought i read that sonewhere?

The concertina idea sounds good, a hole could be incorporated into the base

@Spectric, i believe makita and festool rails and clamps are the same prifile, so interchangeable


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

Louie10 said:


> Great advice buddy, I am now looking at the Betterly Jig, again its expensive and with the connectors another 1400 rail and the jig 8ts really just as cheap for a long rail option so not sure which Avenue to go down now! Lol. Louie


the shorter rails are far more useful in my opinion and with the jig as good or better, don’t forget to get the LR32 version of the rail


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Do the 3m rails come in a wooden box? I thought i read that sonewhere?


They do, but as I mentioned my countries import agent will not guarantee them. so how good is the box? Not very I would think.


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## sometimewoodworker (9 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> The concertina idea sounds good, a hole could be incorporated into the base


I was wrong about the width they are 600mm x 120mm and cost about 50p each


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## Sporky McGuffin (9 Jan 2022)

Those polystyrene sheets look like an excellent solution - I use my tracksaw on a Bora Centipede and it'd be nice to have a top that folds up too. Ta!


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## Spectric (9 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> i believe makita and festool rails and clamps are the same prifile


So is the profile rectangular or dovetail, for the slots it obviously needs to be angled so it cannot come out of the dovetail groove but the dovetail profile works great in the track.


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## MikeK (9 Jan 2022)

baldkev said:


> Do the 3m rails come in a wooden box? I thought i read that sonewhere?



I think the FS3000/2 was shipped in a wooden box a while back, but mine arrived in a cardboard box with a wooden frame inside for support.


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## Spectric (9 Jan 2022)

I have looked at that Betterly straight line jig and it is just a jig to align rails whilst you tighten them, and at £137 on conbay. Makita do a three meter rail for £200 Makita 194367-7 3-Metre Guide Rail and the only downside is storage and portability, any comments @JobandKnock as you have given great info previously and I know you have one of these. I think it must be easier to have a long straight track rather than trying to join two, just a little out in the middle could be a lot more at the end.


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## baldkev (9 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> So is the profile rectangular or dovetail, for the slots it obviously needs to be angled so it cannot come out of the dovetail groove but the dovetail profile works great in the track.



Ive ordered a t slot cutter which fits the makita clamp dimensions ( hopefully )
The initial dovetail and clamp question was me wondering if the clamps would fit ok in a dovetail hole



MikeK said:


> I think the FS3000/2 was shipped in a wooden box a while back, but mine arrived in a cardboard box with a wooden frame inside for support.



Ahh, shame. I bet it costs them more in damaged tracks than they save cutting down on the packaging!


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## JobandKnock (9 Jan 2022)

My FS3000/2 came the same way, mind you it was a much thicker and heavier corrugated cardboard box than the FS1400s came in


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