# Split top Roubo bench on a budget



## Farmer Giles (27 Feb 2014)

Seeing as my current woodworking "bench" is an OSB packing case side on two Workmates I thought it was about time I knocked a proper one together. I nearly did it 2 or 3 years ago after doing some research into my ideal bench, making some drawings and putting together a cutting list.

Unfortunately all I can find now is the cutting list and I can't reverse engineer the drawings from that so I went back to the books and was edging towards some kind of Roubo bench when I saw the Benchcrafted split top Roubo. It hit a chord as it had all the clamping qualities I wanted and I do remember having factored in a sliding deadman in my last design, but I'm not sure if I had a leg vice. However I've thought about it I like the idea that Benchcrafted have developed from the old Roubo plans of the criss-cross, but I don't want to pay that kind of cash. I also like their tail vice. 8) 

So I have bought some Douglas Fir, which I think strikes the right balance between density, stability and cost, a couple of metal hand wheels off fleabay for about 6 quid each, and a couple of York 24mm acme threaded bars and nuts from Axminster for about 20 quid each . I shall fabricate the Roubo criss-cross mechanism from stuff I have in my workshop, I have the tools for this.

The timber cost 360 quid however there is nearly enough wood for 2 benches as I have some other mini projects in mind so in reality about 200 quid's worth is for the bench. Add about 60 quid for the hardware and I bought the plans from Fine Tools. So hopefully it should come in around 300 quid or so if I don't count any holdfasts etc. 

The timber was plain sawn, I didn't think I needed to quarter saw it as much will be laminated, I saved on the cutting cost and less wastage. I also bought a 14 foot x 20" pippy oak log for a future dining table and other dining furniture however as the missus hasn't nailed the design she wants yet it is still at the sawmill waiting instructions :roll: This will be partly quarter sawn, at least the planks for the top and any rails will be. We won't know how deep the pippy bits go into the log until we cut it but its looking good.

The Douglas fir is at about 14% to 16% moisture and my shop is around 12% ambient so as I'm not intending to do much for a few months and the top is made up of small pieces I think it will be good enough for a bench soon. I'm not even thinking about using the oak until next year.

Here's a couple of pics of the bench timber and my oak log

The black marks aren't knots, just muck from loading it. There are a few small knots in the larger sections which I can cut around but the rest is knot free.









and the oak log




There is a shake that goes through the log but the sawyer reckoned he could cut around it and as the centre is off to one side so we should be able to get some nice wide boards for the top. Its a bit of a lottery but I think that is part of the fun!





Next update when I make progress on the criss-cross or the top. it may be a while!

Cheers
Andy


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## ColeyS1 (27 Feb 2014)

Looks like a nice pile of Douglas fir ! Looking forward to seeing your wip as things progress 
Coley

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## gasman (28 Feb 2014)

Looking forward to it - wouldn't your timber dry out faster and more evenly if air can get to it all round - i.e. store it properly on 'spacers' or whatever they are called?
Just a thought
Regards
Mark


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## Farmer Giles (28 Feb 2014)

gasman":bawpsu01 said:


> Looking forward to it - wouldn't your timber dry out faster and more evenly if air can get to it all round - i.e. store it properly on 'spacers' or whatever they are called?
> Just a thought
> Regards
> Mark



Hi Mark

I hadn't had time to get it off the trailer yesterday, its my neighbours trailer and he has a job for it tomorrow so I shall be clearing a space for it in the barn and it will be on stickers by this evening  

I think the rule about junk expanding to fill available space may become part of the Standard Model of the universe, its not dark matter that is the missing component, its junk. I cleared out the bottom barn last year and the junk has already expanded into this space.  

Regards
Andy


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## gasman (28 Feb 2014)

I am excited for you - making my roubo bench was one of the best thing I ever did. I bought a couple of books on the subject, did a lot of research on the vices. I got a wooden vice from Richard Maguire but the thing I use more by far is the tail vice. I bought the Veritas tail vice kit from Axi and spent a long time getting the vice built around it - it has transformed the way I work with wood
Anyway very best of luck
Mark


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## marcros (28 Feb 2014)

andy,

where did you purchase the timber? It looks some nice douglas fir.

Mark


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## Farmer Giles (28 Feb 2014)

Hi Mark
Its a wholesale place about 15 miles from Hull, it used to supply high quality timber to the boat trade but that art has largely died. He deals with DF, and larch and then mainly hard woods, the staple being English oak. He doesn't resell cheap imported softwoods. I shall PM you the details, he does collection only and reasonable quantities, he won't just cut enough for a coffee table!
Regards
Andy


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## Journeyman_uk (28 Feb 2014)

I'm currently on the same project farmer Giles. Although you will probably be finished before I get my wood organised. I'm just waiting for a second hand felder combination to be delivered, but felder don't seem to be any great hurry.

I'm watching this with interest.

Good luck.


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## Farmer Giles (28 Feb 2014)

gasman":3b1pvxhk said:


> I am excited for you - making my roubo bench was one of the best thing I ever did. I bought a couple of books on the subject, did a lot of research on the vices. I got a wooden vice from Richard Maguire but the thing I use more by far is the tail vice. I bought the Veritas tail vice kit from Axi and spent a long time getting the vice built around it - it has transformed the way I work with wood
> Anyway very best of luck
> Mark



thanks Mark, any pics of your bench?

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (28 Feb 2014)

Journeyman_uk":1oxzfnlz said:


> I'm currently on the same project farmer Giles. Although you will probably be finished before I get my wood organised. I'm just waiting for a second hand felder combination to be delivered, but felder don't seem to be any great hurry.
> 
> I'm watching this with interest.
> 
> Good luck.


 
I'm not sure if mine will be finished before yours, I'm also building a Toylander for the kids (I now hate MDF!!) and renovating an old tractor, and finishing the rebuild of a milling machine, and I just started to rebuild my radial arm saw.......... I may be a while!

Cheers
Andy


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## gasman (1 Mar 2014)

Hi Andy
This thread was my entire build
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...outhern-yellow-pine-with-leg-vice-t71343.html
cheers
Mark


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## Journeyman_uk (1 Mar 2014)

Ok you win on commitments, I took the time to paint my workshop walls and floor, add a cyclone to my power tool extractor, respray the rusty old microclene 1000 I found at the tip (apparently someone bought it on eBay and it didn't work so trashed it - just a bent impeller base that needed hammering out). I'm just about ready for the felder and then off to buy the wood! So not much to do there then


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## Farmer Giles (1 Mar 2014)

gasman":3sv0axt1 said:


> Hi Andy
> This thread was my entire build
> https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums...outhern-yellow-pine-with-leg-vice-t71343.html
> cheers
> Mark



Wonderful! Very nice indeed, =D> that SYP looks great and looks good to work with.


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## Farmer Giles (2 Mar 2014)

I moved the timber up to the workshop on Friday, here's it all stickered up. I asked the sawyer about quantities and he's OK with smaller orders as long as people can pick up, he's not doing mail order. He's a very nice helpful chap and will cut to your specification. He's called Karl at Geenix Saw Mills, North Cave 15 miles from Hull, mobile 07544861005





Cheers
Andy


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## Grahamshed (2 Mar 2014)

I always enjoy watching a good bench build. Lots of piccies please


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## Woodmonkey (2 Mar 2014)

I'm interested how you can tell the oak will be pippy before you've planked it?


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## Farmer Giles (2 Mar 2014)

Woodmonkey":3sd1b9p4 said:


> I'm interested how you can tell the oak will be pippy before you've planked it?



Very good question! its not in the photos but on the other side of the log it is covered in burrs where small branches exited. The log will be pippy and have interesting grain but I will not (or knot!) know is how deep and how much until it is sawn, that's part of the gamble but you do pay less. If the timber merchant opens it up and finds glorious grain he will charge more for the timber. I'm looking forward to getting it sawn, worst case is that its very superficial and I just get some decent oak.


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## Farmer Giles (2 Mar 2014)

Grahamshed":1xtqx82x said:


> I always enjoy watching a good bench build. Lots of piccies please



I shall try and accommodate  

Here's the handles and screws, an 8" hand wheel for the leg vice and a 5" for the tail vice. I shall order 2 x 4" for a moxon vice. Also there's 2 x 24mm ACME threads/nuts for the tail/leg vices. I shall take the bit off where the T bar goes through and drill larger holes in the hand wheels to fit with some kind of keyway and/or pin then top 'em off with a nice wooden centre button.





Cheers
Andy


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## carlb40 (2 Mar 2014)

Excellent another Roubo bench, can't get enough of these.


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## Maverick81 (9 Jan 2015)

Farmer Giles":1bn9jyl3 said:


> Hi Mark
> Its a wholesale place about 15 miles from Hull, it used to supply high quality timber to the boat trade but that art has largely died. He deals with DF, and larch and then mainly hard woods, the staple being English oak. He doesn't resell cheap imported softwoods. I shall PM you the details, he does collection only and reasonable quantities, he won't just cut enough for a coffee table!
> Regards
> Andy




Hi Andy. I live in Hull. Could you give me the details for this place please? I generally use Arnold Lavers....but options are always nice.
Ive just built a Roubo myself...... post936517.html#p936517 if youre interested.

Thanks.
Chris.


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## Farmer Giles (27 Jan 2015)

Hi Chris, sorry for the late reply.

its Geenix sawmills, north cave, about a mile off of the M62, 15 miles from Hull.
The Old Saw Mill/Crosslands La, Brough HU15 2PG
01430 425550

Karl is a very helpful chap. I haven't spoke to him for a while and owe him a reply on some yew I enquired about, a mate of mine makes long-bows and I fancy a bit to play with.

I haven't started the bench yet, too cold in the workshop and I'm busy on writing software for my home heating controls and preparing to install a wood pellet boiler for the house, I can do both of these in the warm 

Regards
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (11 Feb 2017)

Well its been 2 years so the douglas fir should be about ready for the bench now, I can see a bit of light at the end of the tunnel in terms of DIY jobs, I have a small window of opportunity before I start the extension on the youngest daughter's bedroom when the weather improves. I still have the workshop to tidy up including making a stock stand for long metal and wood stock and swap out the motor on my bandsaw, so while I'm doing that I have started to look at what other tools I need.

I have a few sash clamps and heads, but I think I am a bit short for the bench lamination, so I thought I would try out the 3/4" BSP Bessey pipe clamps on Amazon, delivery is a bit dear but 4 clamps for £88 is not too bad, just need to nip down and get a bit of threaded conduit.

The plan is to get the bench top laminated in the next few weeks then slowly tickle the rest of the project along during the year between other house/farm jobs. I want to get it ready before I start on the oak dining table that I have had the wood drying out for a similar period, I'm sick of working on a collection of workmates and bit of ply.


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## custard (11 Feb 2017)

Woodmonkey":37vhxe93 said:


> I'm interested how you can tell the oak will be pippy before you've planked it?



I've met foresters and estate managers who have Oak nominated and cultivated as pippy while it's still growing. In today's short term, instant gratification world the time horizons of forestry can take your breath away, I believe the view within the Forestry Commission is that Pippy Oak has a fashion cycle that peaks every thirty or forty years and is currently quite high, so they try and encourage Pippy stocks within parcels that are scheduled for felling during those cycles.


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## Farmer Giles (15 May 2017)

I'm still finishing off the router table, building a bedroom extension, putting up some stock fencing in the field, putting a roof on the field shelter and re-assembling the tractor engine and have a day job but hope to get the timber for the top sorted soon. It's a split top Roubo so I was hoping to get the top through the PT in two halves but it has a max width of 250mm so may not be practical I'll check the plans.

So I can take the top down to the door and window place nearby and buy them a drink if they put it through their big PT and their belt sander or get some winding sticks and get the hand plane out. I have a 4-1/2, a 6 and a 7. I haven't planed anything this big in area before and I'm sort of wanting to do it but the alternative also seems attractive with my current workload. Decisions decisions.....


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## Farmer Giles (16 Sep 2017)

Game on.

I've cleared enough space in the workshop to start and thought I would start getting the legs and top glued up while I continued the tidy up of the workshop.

However, for the legs I forgot that I had the douglas fir cut so the legs are in one piece. The legs will come from big lumps of 6" x 4", I shall stick them through the PT to get them down to 5-3/8" x 3-1/2" as per the benchcrafted plans. The plans are in imperial so rather then convert I shall just use it.

The rails will come from some 4" x 2" and the top from some almost 5" x 2" that I had cut. I forgot I had given the sawmill detailed cutting instructions, it was over 3 years ago when I started this 

Here's a sample of timber, it isn't a shake on the side of the big timber, just cobwebs. It has dried nice and straight as I had it stickered up quickly.


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## Farmer Giles (16 Sep 2017)

I've chopped the legs down to length and now taking them down on the PT to 3-1/2" x 5-3/8", or just over to allow for any additional shrinkage and finishing. Probably all I have time for today unless I can sneak out later


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## Farmer Giles (17 Sep 2017)

A bit more done today, I got all the legs down to width and depth on the PT, only one small error that I recovered from.

I noticed that one leg was planing up out of square, like a trapezoid, and I only noticed it when I was very close the finish depth. It was only a gnats out but I do like a square leg, it would show up on the mortices and make subsequent machining tricky.

Usually I would use a steel rule or similar under the work on the side needing to be skimmed to true it up as it went through the thicknesser, however I didn't have a rule long enough or thin enough for the legs so glued a couple of bits of heavy paper onto the edge needing lifting with a glue stick, worked a treat. I could have used the planer but it needs setting up properly, one table is not square with the fence and one is and I didn't want to spend the day on the PT today.






Then I cleaned up the morticer. It has been out for a loan to a neighbour and just needed a bit of TLC, nothing much. I tested it on a bit of scrap and will practice the mortices on the scrap first.






Time to take the dog and the kids for a walk, next task is to take the legs down to length and cut the tenons on the RAS.

Cheers
Andy


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## ColeyS1 (17 Sep 2017)

Coming along nicely ! I like your method of squaring up the leg, job well done !!!

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## Farmer Giles (17 Sep 2017)

Thanks Coley 

Did I mention that the mortice chisel attacked the back of my finger twice while cleaning it up, only a scratch but I should have taken it out however even when your working not cleaning it is easy to catch yourself on the chisel.

What do people use to protect themselves from mortice chisel rash? I'm thinking of a muzzle made from an old plastic bottle top and some knicker elastic


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## sundaytrucker (17 Sep 2017)

How do you find that Dewalt P/T? I have considered picking one up a few times in the past but just not found a huge amount of user feedback on it.


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## Farmer Giles (17 Sep 2017)

sundaytrucker":2rb6x1kn said:


> How do you find that Dewalt P/T? I have considered picking one up a few times in the past but just not found a huge amount of user feedback on it.



I think it is pretty good, however I got it for a song many years ago so my expectations weren't high. A friend sold it to me for 50 quid, he got divorced so it went into storage and when he did get a new missus, she wanted a town flat so no room for woodworking gear.

I have only really used the thicknesser in anger, I have never got around to setting the tables for the planer up properly, it doesn't look difficult, maybe I should pull my finger out and get it done.

Thicknessing is fine, no chip collection of any description though. Quite well built for the money.

Cheers
Andy


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## Fitzroy (17 Sep 2017)

I have the same P/T. Thicknesser is ok, planer is not built that well, aluminium tables and a bit short. It's ok for anything under 4' but over that I had to knock up some table extensions. The table mechanism for raising/lowering is not the best design resulting in lots of backlash. The outfeed table is adjustable but does not move so you have to get the knives set spot on height. It's got a good width on it though and the motor is well powered. Chip collection is possible but you need to build a connection device yourself. I paid £250 for mine and think it's ok for that money. Replacement knives are c £20 from a few different eBayers, which is pretty cheap.


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## Farmer Giles (17 Sep 2017)

I've been a very naughty boy and bought the benchcrafted criss-cross solo for the bottom of the front vice. I was going to make on as its not difficult but the amount of work the missus has lined up for me means I need to take a short cut as I actually want to use the bench for the work she has line up.

It will still be a cheap bench, this is the only luxury I'm going to spend on.


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## Farmer Giles (18 Sep 2017)

Slight change of plan. I decided to select all the timber I'm using in the bench and cut it to rough size so I can get the rest of the Douglas Fir out of the main workshop as I want to put set of steel shelves where the timber currently is so I can continue to tidy up. I've cut all the rails and I've started on the 2" x 5" that will be laminated to make to top. I need 12 of these and I had 16, I rejected 3 that had lots of knots, the others are fairly knot free and the ones that aren't will be hidden inside the top laminations. 

I should finish sizing in the morning, including the massive bit of 9" x 3" for the vice chop. The I will resaw the top timbers down to just over 4" and put them through the thicknesser. A neighbour wanted " a few shavings" for his ducks. I think I'll have about 4 bin bags full before I have finished 

The idea is to get all the timber to the right width and depth so most of the waste is out of the way, then have a good clean up including installing the new shelves and getting some boxes off the floor before starting mortising.

Here's the timber for the top, the 3 on the floor have been cut to length plus an inch, the rest is yet to do, got to go and help the kids with their homework and put them to bed now.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (19 Sep 2017)

I've been a very naughty boy!

I was on t'internet late last night when I accidentally pressed the buy button and filled in all my shipping and purchading details, how careless of me!

I bought a HNT Gordon 150mm tail vice mechanism. It's small and perfectly formed. I looked at the screw I bought 3 years ago for this and realised it was far too big. As I'm timebound on this project and this tail vice is easy to install with just a rebate I parted with some more readies. I guess this project is becoming less budget conscious by the minute


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## AndyT (19 Sep 2017)

That's _nearly_ as nice as the one n0legs made!






like-a-tail-inset-vice-thingamajig-yes-it-s-n0legs-again-t104576.html


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## Farmer Giles (19 Sep 2017)

n0legs' vice is a thing of beauty. I have all the gear to make this stuff, just not the time, very frustrating.  

I currently have half the roof off the back of the house as we are building an extension, and the weather has been appalling so I spend more time dragging tarps over holes and emptying buckets than I do wood or metalworking plus I'm on light duties due to a recent op so only doing a couple of hours a day.

On the bright side, the workshop is slowly getting tidy and I'm making a bit of progress on the bench.


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## sundaytrucker (19 Sep 2017)

Thanks for the feedback guys.


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## Farmer Giles (20 Sep 2017)

In the interest of saving time and effort, I have decided to make the top a tad thicker. The benchcrafted plans stipulate 4". The timber I have is 4-7/8" rough sawn so I will take it down to about 4-5/8" when it is planed up.

Here's a couple of pictures of the timber end, the sap wood on one of the timbers will be hidden in the middle of the laminates and will be breadboarded where the tail vice is and isn't visible at the far end. I did take one down to near 4", I will use this for something else and replace it with another I have.











For the vice chop, the plans show 2-1/2" thick and 9" wide at the top. My timber is just under 9" wide and is 3" rough sawn, so will end up 8-3/4" and 2-7/8" thick, here's the timber I selected, I had a bit with no sap wood but I like the symmetry of the grain more on this one and the sap wood will be removed as the chop is paddle shaped.






Cheers


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## Farmer Giles (20 Sep 2017)

A bit of a mixed day, I managed to get all the top boards through the PT in the 2" dimension so I can think about lamination glue-up, but made a school boy error in cutting them to rough length first. There was always going to be one or two slightly bent ones that didn't sit on the outfeed stand as the board exited the PT roller meaning a slight divit is taken out of the end of the board. I thought chopping a foot of the boards first was a good idea as it would reduce the amount to plane. However now I have a few boards with slight cutter marks in them in the part I want to use, if I had done this before cutting to rough length I would have been golden.  

I can work around it, just annoying. #-o 

Looking at the timber I have, I can't get a full bench without at least a couple of small knots in the top. I could hide them by drilling random hold down holes, but I won't  Because of this, I'm not going to plane both sides of all the timber down to a thickness, in additon some boards are slighly bowed in the 5" not 2" dimension and if I stick it through the PT the bow will remain due to the length of board. So I am thinking of using a router sled and flattening the top and bottom this way instead. However, this is plan B, plan A is ask the woodworking shop below me to shove the two glued tops through their big Wadkin PT then their sander :wink: 

Plan C was glue 3 laminations, about 6" of the top, stick that through the PT then marry it to another 3 of a similar thickness and glue up. Then do the same with the other half of the split top. I shall sleep on it then call the workshop tomorrow to see if they are willing to put the top through the PT.

The other issue was grain direction, ideally the direction should be the same on all laminations to make subsequent levelling once the top gets worn easier, However the grain changes along several of the boards, I think I will skip this and assume any future flattening will be by other means. :roll:


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## Farmer Giles (21 Sep 2017)

Not much done today, I was helping a friend hang a stable door in an old farm building and the door hole needed a lot of fettling with the angle grinder so we could fit the galvanised frame to something approaching being square. 

However the benchcrafted criss-cross arrived from Fine Tools







Quite heavy castings, I'm sort of regretting not making them as its pretty simple, I have the steel stock, the welder and milling machines. But it does mean I can get on with the woodwork. I could have made them today instead of helping my friend, but I know I may need his help at some time so I wouldn't do that.

I couldn't get hold of the local joinery shop to see if they will stick the tops through their PT and sander, I will see if I can catch them tomorrow, then I'm off walking around Goathland and Whitby for the weekend so it will be next Monday before I can get much done.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (25 Sep 2017)

Nothing too exciting happening on the bench, I have been planing the stretchers for the base to size, not much point posting any pictures, I guess you have all seen planed timber and a huge pile of shavings before.

I now have a 5/8" mortise chisel which I should be using tomorrow on the legs once all the timber is to thickness and I've got rid of the shavings. I need to plane the planks for the shelf under the bench and the sliding deadman, that shouldn't take long then I can start construction proper.

The tail vice arrived into the UK from Australia on Friday according to tracking so should be here soon.


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## Farmer Giles (26 Sep 2017)

A bit more progress so far today, I've just about finished thicknessing, I should think about having a clear up and maybe get some chip extraction on the PT :lol: 






I've now started to workout how to pimp or personalise the bench. Firstly while I have the PT out, I was thinking of laminating the vice chop with a bit of walnut, the bit on the right has a large knot that I can lose easily on the vice chop.






Do I have a walnut sliding dead-man or is that a bit of a waste of timber, I do have a bit of pippy oak, or should I use that on the vice chop too, decisions decisions!

The other bit of pimping is the vice handle, the one I bought of e-bay many moons ago is very low rent.






So I bought this off the bay, its bronze and 8", same size as benchcrafted but a lot cheaper 






I shall attach it to the York vice screw once it arrives, should be here soon. Here's the vice screw, I shall remove the T-bar and probably mill a square on the end of the shaft, building it up with a bit of weld if necessary.






EDIT

Here's a couple of picture of a sample of the pippy oak I could use, however I have a dining table and chairs to make and this may be needed there. 











Cheers
Andy


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## DTR (26 Sep 2017)

Farmer Giles":3bchm4c3 said:


> A bit more progress so far today, I've just about finished thicknessing, I should think about having a clear up and maybe get some chip extraction on the PT :lol:



:shock: 



Farmer Giles":3bchm4c3 said:


> So I bought this off the bay, its bronze and 8", same size as benchcrafted but a lot cheaper



Great minds think alike (or fools never differ) 8) 





Mine apparently came from a combination machine that had been broken for scrap. It already had a plain shaft attached so I just screwcut a thread on that. I like how your wheel has a flat cross-section though.

I'm following your build with interest!


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## Farmer Giles (26 Sep 2017)

DTR":308tsywc said:


> Mine apparently came from a combination machine that had been broken for scrap.



I was looking for something similar but then the bronze thing came up and I had to have it 

The decision has been made on the wood to use for the vice chop lamination, it is the walnut as SWMBO wants the oak for the kitchen and dining table builds. Here it is in glue up.






Cheers
Andy


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## woodworm2017 (29 Sep 2017)

hi andy,
the bench is coming along nicely can't wait to see the finish item.
regards.
ahmed


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## Farmer Giles (30 Sep 2017)

Thanks Ahmed
I did a bit more yesterday on the leg vice screw but was in a rush and made an error that means I will need to do it again. Nothing major, I could have called it a prototype but to be honest it was a cock-up, more later.
Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (3 Oct 2017)

A quick update, the good news is that my local joiners shop are willing to put my top through the PT and sander. So I will start the glue up tomorrow or Thursday, my youngest daughter wants to help with the glue, could get messy!

The cock-up I mentioned was all to do with adapting the leg vice screw to take the bronze handle instead of the default T-bar. 

Here's the screw with the T-bar removed






Then lining it up with the new handle






The shaft needs to be a bit longer to maintain a healthy knuckle gap between the handle and the bench, at least as thick as the handle (20mm) or maybe a touch more. So I had an hour to spare so I got out the MIG and welded the hole up on the shaft and built up the shaft about 25mm in length and a bit in thickness for the first 30mm or so. I then placed it on the vertical milling machine with the end of the shaft down a little towards the back so that when I mill it I get a slight taper to match the hole in the handle. I started to mill the flats.






I then realise that in my haste I forgot to put the collar and washer back on, plus drilling the hole in the end of that shaft for the handle retaining bolt will be a PITA with the collar and washer on, it will rattle around in the lathe unless I fix it in some way.

So I stick the shaft in the lathe and turn it down so I can get the collar and washer back on, but before I remove the shaft I drill the hole to take an M8 tap. It will distort a bit when I build the weld back up so no point tapping it but it will be easy to clear out later without it going back into the lathe so no issue with the collar rattling aroun






After putting the collar and washer back on, I then built up the end with weld again, you can see the drilled hole in the end.






Then back on the mill, you can see the slope on the shaft so I get a nice tapered square end on the shaft to fit into the handle. I may have to add a bit more weld here and there and mill again, I shall find out once we get milling. I have a small clamp to add to make sure the collar doesn't migrate up the shaft due to vibration.






that is as far as I have got. The shaft is about 17mm OD, obviously larger across the corners where the tapered flats are, there needs to be a spacer between the collar and the handle, this needs to go on after the milling so the ID will be about 24mm, I have a bit of bronze to do this.


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## AndyT (3 Oct 2017)

I like the way you got out of that problem - and it's a perfect justification for why you must have welding kit and a lathe and a milling machine - how else could you make this bench to the budget?


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## Farmer Giles (3 Oct 2017)

I can't fault your logic at all Andy, makes complete sense to me, can you just explain it to the missus for me 

To be fair, she doesn't give me much hassle as she has loads of hobbies and occasionally makes stupid purchases. All I have to mention is the dog poo wormery she bought and I could probably even justify something from Festool


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## custard (3 Oct 2017)

Farmer Giles":guijhhd0 said:


> I bought a HNT Gordon 150mm tail vice mechanism.



That makes so much sense. You only normally need the slightest nip from a tail vice, so why install some massive job that's powerful enough to rip your bench apart?

Good luck with the build by the way, looks like you're in the home straight now.


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## Farmer Giles (3 Oct 2017)

Thanks Custard

That's if I ever take delivery of the tail vice, it came into ParcelForce from Australia Post then went to customs who are supposed to be raising a charge. That was 28th September, I haven't seen a letter asking for cash yet, evidently its 2.5% import tax so not a lot. I'm not sure if I can pay ParcelForce and they pay customs, I have no contact details for them and the reference number I need to pay it will be in the letter I haven't go yet.

If anybody has any experience of doing this, please let me know. I'm going down to the PO tomorrow with the tracking number to see if they have any ideas, failing that it will be calling ParcelForce and probably 2 years on a phone.....

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Oct 2017)

You'll pay ParcelForce the import tax and probably VAT and for the privilege of having them collect it/them.


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## Farmer Giles (3 Oct 2017)

Thanks Phil. I've just gone back to parcelforce tracking and at last the status has changed, it looks like it may be on its way  typical, I checked it 6pm, it changed 8 minutes later after almost a week of inactivity.

I bought another bronze handwheel from the same supplier. I have some douglas fir left, my 8 year old daughter wants a mini version of my bench. I have the screw I was going to use for the tail vice before I bought the HNT Gordon one that I can use for the leg vice and she can use wonder dogs or similar instead of the tail vice and I'll fabricate a criss cross for the leg vice.


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## memzey (4 Oct 2017)

The mini bench would be worth a project thread on its own!


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## Farmer Giles (4 Oct 2017)

memzey":2mv6csu3 said:


> The mini bench would be worth a project thread on its own!



Good idea, it will be less confusing that way. I may have to make it slightly differently to take advantage of the timber left over. Thinner top with more laminations and a few more prominent knots.


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## TFrench (4 Oct 2017)

Does the weld machine ok? Something I've never tried. I wondered if the heat would harden it too much?


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## Farmer Giles (4 Oct 2017)

TFrench":1851abdc said:


> Does the weld machine ok? Something I've never tried. I wondered if the heat would harden it too much?



Yes, it machines fine, I let it cool slowly, sometimes it has inclusions that you find when machining but you usually need at least two cycles of weld and mill to get it about right so you fill any imperfections the second time around when your not building up as much weld. Here's a test run on the first cycle, it needs a touch more weld in places.






It is relatively quick to machine, mill one side, turn it through 90 degrees and use a square on the mill bed to clock in the next side and off you go again. Even with cups of tea, searching for specs, face shield, cutting oil etc. it took about 30 minutes for the first pass.

Which is rather fortunate as I'm going to stick it in the lathe and turn it off one more time :roll: I have been thinking about the friction of the bronze spacer between the handle and the galv nut. It can be made to be ok however I want it to be lovely and smooth and be able to tighten the handle up so it doesn't wobble. So I'm going to replace the galv washer with one of these. Well similar, it won't have a bit missing  It's a thrust bearing, it will be recessed into the bronze spacer so only a small gap will be visible.






I should have glued up the top first while I thought the handle through a bit more. So I did glue up the first half of the top today.






The face of the bench is pointing downwards, the face is resting on two pipe clamps resting on the two workmates and I made sure the two pipe clamps were parallel to each other by packing up the feet a bit so the bench is not twisted during glue up. 

Cheers
Andy


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## MusicMan (4 Oct 2017)

TFrench":mcd02f4e said:


> Does the weld machine ok? Something I've never tried. I wondered if the heat would harden it too much?




Heat generally softens metals not hardens them. Hardening occurs in steels when it is heated (to approximately red heat) then quickly cooled, in an oil or water quench. If it is slowly cooled it stays soft ('annealed'). If it is cooled at medium speed, e.g. a chisel-sized piece just left to cool in air ('normalised') it is reasonably hard and tough but not hard enough to take an edge.

Annealing just softens most other metals. Aluminium-copper alloys (and some others) are a special case; with the right composition, a few percent copper, they will be soft when they first cool after heating but will gradually strengthen with time ('age-hardening').

The problem with welding is that it introduces violent heat treatment into a small zone. Depending on the alloy (in steel) this can be soft, hard or brittle. It doesn't matter for the application in this thread since the component is not highly stressed, but for applications needing strength after welding the alloy must be designed for it.

Keith


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## DTR (5 Oct 2017)

That's looking smart! 8)


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## Farmer Giles (5 Oct 2017)

Thanks Dave, I've just ordered the thrust bearings, I also ordered a new V belt for the meddings radial arm drill from the same supplier. I think its a SPZ937 if my measurement of the remains of the old one is anything to go by, now I must wipe the grease off my wife's sewing tape measure before sneaking it back into her sewing room or I will be singing castrato! I should have used string and a standard tape but I think the kids have nicked my string.


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## Farmer Giles (5 Oct 2017)

A bit more progress today, I have nearly finished with the PT so I can have a good clean up. First I glued up the second half of the bench top. I used a mini paint roller, worked a treat, just the right amount of glue, enough so there is a small amount of consistent seepage, but not vast quantities of glue dripping out.







I stacked the six laminations on top of each other, roughly clamped them together, turned them through 90 degrees so the top was face down on a pair of level pipe clamps, then made sure all the laminations were in contact with the clamp pipes. This way there will be less to remove from the face as that side is virtually knot free, I think I have two tiny knots. There are a few knots around 20mm under the surface, the rest are on the under side.

It took a while to sort the laminations into internal and external timbers, try to get grain direction all going the same way, hide as many knots as possible and try and balance the end grain cupping. Here's the incomplete stack of glued timbers in progress with arrows attempting to show grain direction.






Last job was to laminate the sliding deadman as that will mirror the vice chop being walnut and Douglas Fir. I shoved a piece of walnut through the PT, then I resawed a Douglas fir board down the middle and shoved them through the PT. The plans stipulated a thickness of 1-7/16" for the deadman, after removing the saw marks from the timber it came out at just over 37mm which is 0.5mm over the required thickness so I left it at that and glued them up. Here's the bit of walnut I'm using for the deadman, I can work around the knot and have a bit left over for the cover on the tail vice.






That's it for today, big tidy up tomorrow. I will leave the tops for a few days before getting them planed and sanded to size at the local joiners shop so probably early next week. So in the mean time I will get on with mortising the legs.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (6 Oct 2017)

This morning I finally cut to size and planed all the timber so the big tidy up begins. One issue I had was an outfeed table for the band saw, the tall roller stand I had just didn't cut the mustard for resawing some of the wood so I found a bit of veneered chipboard for the table about to go to the tip, this will be replaced with something more substantial later. However I had been clamping this to the bandsaw table with g clamps and these were getting in the way of some of the bigger lumps of timber so I cut a piece of ply and screwed it to the underside of the table where there are conveniently 4 x M8 tapped holes. 






I then shimmed up the chipboard table with a 15mm thick piece of ply screwed to it and held the table in place with some fence clamps so they don't get it in the way.






I'll make a better job of this later but it allowed me to finish of the resawing for the project in hand.

So, I started the tidy up and in the back of my mind was tomorrow where I am entertaining our youngest while the eldest goes to Harry Pottter world with mum. My youngest wants to do some woodwork and wants to make a sword and a work bench. I was thinking of making a mini-roubo with her, however I found these during the tidy up. The green one is an Axminster quick release vice I bought back in 2003 and was still in the box, it was for a bench I never got around to make  






This big old record 53E was given to me by my uncle who was a joiner after I had bought the Axminster vice. It needs a bit of TLC, a bit rusty on the slides.






I think the record would ideal in the downstairs barn for general joinery and the Axminster may be OK for the daughter's bench if she doesn't want a mini roubo

Right, dog walk time then I'll continue the big tidy up so that the daughter can see the workshop floor tomorrow.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (9 Oct 2017)

The tail vice arrived today from Australia after finally being released by customs. Terry Gordon always answered emails and was as helpful as he could be given that it is largely out of his control when it goes into Parcel Force land. It actually wasn't too bad time wise from a postal perspective, it was customs that took the time, I just wanted instant shiny tool gratification, I need to be more patient 

It was worth waiting for, if Terry's planes are anything like the vice then they will be a thing of beauty!


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## Farmer Giles (12 Oct 2017)

A neighbour ran me and the bench tops down to our local woodworking shop yesterday, and we picked them up this afternoon. They couldn't stick them through the sander or cut them to length but the hard work of planing and thicknessing has been done.

The tops need a couple of inches taking off each end so the slight gaps you see will go.






the timber to the left on the floor in the picture below is the rest of the timber for the bench, all thicknessed, and the cardboard box has all the hardware in it so now the interesting bit can start.






There are a couple of minor sound knots but more than acceptable to me.






They are square and the right width, and depth wise they are 4-1/2", the plans say 4" but I couldn't see any good reason to take it down the extra 1/2" given the stock it came from. I will adjust either the legs and sliding deadman down 1/2" or the vice chop size up 1/2" in length. I'm 5' 10" so probably don't need the extra height.

I'll leave the top until I have finished the base, once I have it mortised and I've done a dry fit I'll cut it to length on the RAS.

Cheers
Andy


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## memzey (13 Oct 2017)

Looking good! If you plan to use holdfasts then the depth might be a bit of an issue as some struggle with a bench more than 4” thick. Try them with a piece of scrap I’d say. I made a similar bench at the turn of the year (WIP thread is on this board) which was about 3 1/2” thick and my holdfasts work brilliantly. Good luck whatever you do!


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## Farmer Giles (13 Oct 2017)

memzey":36g148a4 said:


> Looking good! If you plan to use holdfasts then the depth might be a bit of an issue as some struggle with a bench more than 4” thick. Try them with a piece of scrap I’d say. I made a similar bench at the turn of the year (WIP thread is on this board) which was about 3 1/2” thick and my holdfasts work brilliantly. Good luck whatever you do!



Thanks for the tip memzey  I guess I could drill larger holes underneath the bench, say 1" diameter 1" deep so from a holdfast perspective the 3/4" hole is only 3-1/2" deep. I have both the hammer down and screw down holdfasts ready to go, requested many moons ago for various birthday/Christmas gifts and waiting until I eventually made the bench.  

As my 3/4" forstner bit won't go 4-1/2" deep and I don't like the extension bars, the intention was to use the radial arm drill to go as deep as it can, then us a small diameter but long drill to go through the bench as a pilot, then use a 3/4" auger bit in the radial arm drill, but the screw won't drag it through as the pilot hole stops it. Matt Estlea does something similar on his Roubo build on youtube. 

So when I put the pilot hole through, I can then flip the top and drill the 1" hole underneath before flipping it again to put the auger through, also avoid break out underneath.

Cheers
Andy


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## memzey (13 Oct 2017)

Yes that or deeply countersinking from underneath should work. My WIP thread has been photobucketed but if you click on the links you can still see the pictures (my bench is very similar to what you are building but I used different vices). I found the thread here:

workbench-build-t102325.html


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## Farmer Giles (13 Oct 2017)

Thanks Memzey, the images aren't visible to others, only yourself, at least not to me, even if i click on them. There's probably a photoshop cookie on your PC so Photobucket knows it's your account so lets you view them.

Nothing much done today on the bench, still tidying the workshop but made leaps and bounds today, should have it finished over the weekend if the ankle biters give me a couple of hours. Then I shall get into the interesting part.

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (14 Oct 2017)

As said try your holdfasts in a hole of that depth - you might need to relieve the underside in which case you might need a pilot or at least to somehow bore it before the main hole (you won't have a centre), but otherwise the bit doesn't need guiding all the way through - once the hole is an inch or two deep and accurate an auger can then only follow it.


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## Farmer Giles (16 Oct 2017)

It's been hard going for the last couple of days, my pa died about 10 days ago and it only really hit me the end of last week, I think it was selecting poems for the service with the kids and writing a few words for his eulogy that set me off.

However I have tried to keep busy tidying the workshop and fiddling with the big Meddings radial arm saw I bought a while ago and doing a bit of fencing to keep the neighbour's cows off our willow saplings.

I started to mark up the legs a couple of days ago, but didn't get far. Fortunately it made me read the Benchcrafted criss-cross notes again, and I realised that the front stretcher needed to be altered to allow the barrel nut to go behind the recess for the criss-cross. It needed thickening up to 3" from 1-7/8". So I laminated that yesterday and put it through the PT today.

That bit of PT work galvanised me into action and I put the chop through the PT as I had forgotten to do that, then I started to cut out the recess for the criss-cross in both the front left leg and the vice chop.

First the leg, I don't have a spiral bit but I do have a long trimming router bit with a plunge tip. The slot is 1-7/16" deep, 3/4" wide and 19-1/2" long. I plunged to the full depth in a few passes then move the router bit towards the farthest pencil mark then turned the work around and did it again, I used stops at each end and used the router fence fine adjustment to take off about 1.5mm at a time.






I think this is close enough to 1-3/4" 






Getting the end stops right meant very little tidy up, just the corners, I had a play with a few chisels just for the hell of it. I bought a corner chisel years ago, also tried my new Narex mortise chisel and I used a bevel edge chisel on a small patch in the middle of the recess that needed a bit of TLC. The Narex is lovely, not sure I need a corner chisel, it works ok I guess.






I have completed about 80% of the opposite recess on the chop when dinner and kids stopped play, I have a day tomorrow to repair any wind damage and hopefully make a start on the mortises on the legs for the stretchers then off to North Yorkshire for my dad's funeral Wednesday and Thursday.

Cheers
Andy


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## MusicMan (16 Oct 2017)

So sorry to hear about the loss of your father. It's a hard time.

Keith


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## Farmer Giles (17 Oct 2017)

Thanks Keith.
Remembering the good times, keeping busy in the workshop, family and home brewed stout is the remedy that softens the blow.
Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (30 Dec 2018)

I've had another spell away from the workshop, house DIY, work around the farm, my day job and looking after kids mainly. I've got the extension on the house finished, just needs fitting out. So it's utility and kitchen cabinets next, but I have a special dispensation to build the work bench first as I need that to help build the kitchen don't I 

I've also got heating in the barn now, so very cosy 

First job was to dust off the pile of timber I had cut roughly to size, go back through the drawings and notes and try to work out what I was doing 15 month ago.

It took a while but after a couple of days I'm back up to speed. The main issue was installing the Benchcrafted criss-cross for the leg vice and using barrel nuts so the bench could be taken apart. It isn't a major issue, it just means the front stretcher has to be 80mm deep or greater compared with the back stretcher which is 45m deep. This is so that the bolt that attaches the frame to the stretcher can pass behind the slot in the leg that the criss-cross runs in while still keeping the stretcher flush with the front of the leg so that the sliding deadman is almost flush with the front of the bench.

I had laminated the front stretcher out of two 37.5mm thick lengths of Douglas fir so I was still at least 5mm shy of the 80mm needed. I was trying to think what I had planned, I gave up in the end and added a 10mm thick lamination I had hanging around. I cut it 28mm shy of the full height of the stretcher so it will form the ledge for the boards under the workbench. 






Next job was to remark all the mortices to make sure I haven't cocked up. I have decided to use the metric instructions that was written by Guido Henn on the Fine-tools website rather than the imperial plans I bought ages ago so this makes sense as previously I was going to use imperial. I have only cut the slots for the criss-cross in the leg and vice chop so far and I'm more comfortable with metric so less likely to make a mistake.






This time I will keep a log of decisions as I go along in case I have to leave it again, however I'm hoping to keep up the momentum now I have heating and permission from SWMBO 

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (5 Jan 2019)

I spoke too soon about the warm workshop, the boiler broke down yesterday, we are still in the middle of installing it and it's been going for about 3 weeks. I'll take a look on Monday, too busy on the bench at the moment so a couple of fan heaters and an extra t-shirt and some gloves are called for.

I thought I would start on the front stretcher, there is only a lower front and back stretcher, no need for an upper with 115mm of timber top  The front stretcher is double the thickness of the other stretchers as it has to avoid the slot in the leg for the Benchcrafted criss-cross and still take a bolt. The remaining stretchers are very similar tenon wise, the rear stretcher has a meatier tenon than the rest but the upper and lower end stretchers are almost identical.

After cutting to size on the mitre saw, I decided to cross cut the tenons on the table saw as the stretcher was too thick to use the depth stop on the mitre saw. I miss my RAS for this as my table saw is only one step up from a site saw, I would love a Wadkin at some point. I only used the clamps for the first couple of cuts, more belt and braces until I got my confidence in the saw, the sliding table isn't the best of tools and took some adjustment.






Then took out the bulk of the waste on the bandsaw, I put a stop on the fence so there is no chance of cutting too deep.






I plan to cut the rest of the stretcher tenons tomorrow then tidy them up on the router table. Not much progress but it's taking me a while to get back into it, I'm a bit rusty and I keep finding things that need fixing along the way.

Cheers
Andy


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## Bm101 (5 Jan 2019)

Andy! 

If I'm going to get beaten on length of time to build a bench I will be honoured if it's by you. (Let's not compare build quality... :-" )
Routed out the vice housing today. Again. I moved it because despite all expert knowledge I really can't face a left sided end vice. It makes no sense to me despite all the proper advice. I'm right handed and I need a right handed vice. For the life of me I can't cut to the left of a line.  
So there you are.
Enough about my nonsense. Look forward to more updates.  

Great to see you back on (this) track and having some time 'off'. Lmao.

All the best.
Chris


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## Farmer Giles (6 Jan 2019)

Thanks Chris, I am making it a bit of an epic. I must admit I have never questioned the placement of the vice. I still have time to change, maybe I shall put it in the middle 

I am having problems with the squareness of stock. Possibly due to not using the planer on the legs and stretchers and getting a reference face first before going through the planer thicknesser, or it could be a bit of shrinkage as its been over a year since I touched it. When cutting the tenons, although it is tiny, I have noticed the cuts are not following the lines I expect and make you question the accuracy of your squares. I can work with it but I'm certainly learning about wood a lot. I also need to true up the mitre saw, it seems to have moved a bit, again tiny but enough to notice on big chunks like the stretchers.

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Jan 2019)

I actually use a mark on basic joinery that doesn't mark the square edges but marks the squarest - the ones I measure and gauge from. At least then I don't end up with mortices and tenons etc. offset from one end to the other.


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## Farmer Giles (6 Jan 2019)

I'm trying to do something similar however I'm just marking up the back stretcher tenons, one end is nigh on square, the other is distinctly trapezoidal.

I'm not going to take it out but work with it, I'm pretty sure this is normal wood movement and if I had assembled it straight away rather than wait 15 months then it would have been fine.

I did cut the timber roughly to size and leave it for a year before the last dimensioning on the PT so shows you how much wood continues to move. The tenons will be square and as long as the face of the stretcher lines up with the legs then you won't notice it and I'm after a functional bench rather than a coffee table so not too worried


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## AndyT (6 Jan 2019)

With a top four and a half inches thick, if anything doesn't line up perfectly I reckon you can afford a few swipes with a smoothing plane once it's finished. :wink:


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## Farmer Giles (6 Jan 2019)

Aye Andy, the top should be able to take a couple of swipes with a plane before it becomes translucent 

I got all the remaining stretchers and the legs cut to size and cut all the tenons today. Next job the mortices, then adjust the tenons to fit on the router table.







Cheers
Andy


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## TFrench (6 Jan 2019)

Good to see you back on it Andy, was only thinking the other day I hadn't seen anything from you in a long time! If you are looking for a wadkin saw I've got a BGP panel saw I'll be selling shortly...


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## Farmer Giles (6 Jan 2019)

Cheers  I would love a Wadkin PK or a PP, but the BGP sounds interesting. Might take up too much floor space though.


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## TFrench (6 Jan 2019)

Same here, I'd love the BGP at home but it wouldn't leave me with much room to work around it! I was looking at a restored PK the other day in a dealer's, they really are a thing of beauty.


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## Farmer Giles (7 Jan 2019)

I haven't had much time today, just an hour after work. I've marked out all the mortices and labelled them with their corresponding tenon. Next time I get to play will be the end of the week and I will lay all the legs and stretchers out and check I have marked the correct faces then check the measurement.

Next I searched around the workshop and gathered up all the hardware for the vice screw including bits of bronze for spacers and washers, SKF thrust bearings and a large lump of acetal. The acetal fits into the leg and the vice screw passes through it to provide a low friction but snug fitting. The hole in the acetal will be slightly oval to allow a bit of up and down movement but almost zero side to side. Now where did I put those oval drill bits?






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (12 Jan 2019)

It was a good job I laid the components out before I chiselled the mortices as I had marked out the rear right leg mortices in the wrong place.






I then chiselled out the mortices on the Axminster morticer that the wife bought me for my 40th Birthday, I think I have used it 3 times in over 15 years 






I initially just cut one mortice and fitted the tenon using a shoulder plane to make sure I wasn't making another cock-up






The outside of the stretcher needs to be flush with the leg as it could potentially be a clamping surface, this is the back right end stretcher so less likely than the front. This was during fitting, by the time the tenon fitted the faces were flush. Ignore the pencil line, that was caused by moving from imperial to metric plans.






I then chopped out all the remaining mortices and if I get time tomorrow I may be able to fit the tenons and have a dry fit of all the joints and start thinking about draw boring the end frames and drilling holes for the captive nuts and bolts.

Regards
Andy


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## Bm101 (12 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":2yo5hl1i said:


> It was a good job I laid the components out before I chiselled the mortices as I had marked out the rear right leg mortices in the wrong place.



Love it. Good to know it's not just me who has Waaiiiit....wha' the fuuuuuuu..... Noooooooooo !!?!! moments. 
I used to read proper woodworkers talk about face marks and marking waste areas hard and I'd think, ahhhh, come on now. This is the simple stuff Shirley.
Then you realise as you start to do a bit more.
Ah yeh. Ok.
Glad you spotted it Andy. 
Looking good. (hammer) 
Chris


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## Farmer Giles (13 Jan 2019)

Thanks Chris, with age I have begun to realise if I can screw it up, I will, so I try to reduce the opportunities plus I have modified the old adage, measure twice, cut once to measure three times....

I made a bit of progress today. I decided to work on the front lower stretched first while fresh as it is the one that ideally must be flush with the legs as it forms part of the main clamping area. Also it needs to be level as the sliding deadman slides on it. First I needed to clear the bottom of the mortices with the router plane as I needed a couple of mill of clearance to make sure the joint tightened on the shoulders of the tenon as it looked a bit tight. Before the router plane...






and after....






Then adjust the tenons to fit with the shoulder plane, looks flush






and square






Looks good






So do the same the other end of the stretcher and try it all together.






The stretcher is the same distance from the top of the legs on both sides so bodes well for the sliding deadman.

I then went ahead and worked on the other stretchers, of the 12 tenons I've just about completed 8 so not far from being able to assemble the full frame.

Once I have completed a tenon, I mark a big cross on both major sides with a black marker to make sure I don't inadvertently start adjusting the wrong end. They are all labelled too so I would have to be a complete silly person to cock it up. So far so good......
Cheers
Andy


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## MikeG. (13 Jan 2019)

Bm101":3n2fqrex said:


> ........Love it. Good to know it's not just me who has Waaiiiit....wha' the fuuuuuuu..... Noooooooooo !!?!! moments.
> I used to read proper woodworkers talk about face marks and marking waste areas hard and I'd think, ahhhh, come on now. This is the simple stuff Shirley.
> Then you realise as you start to do a bit more..........



Absolutely. I went to the Globe Theatre in London a few years ago and stood right next to a post which had a mortise drilled out but not chiseled, where someone had obviously realised a bit too late that they weren't working on the post they thought they were working on. Same thing in Lavenham last weekend, in a hugely expensive oak framed extension to a really famous building. I write in big letters in a fat marker pen on oak frames, because it is so hard orientating yourself sometimes, and absolutely the same principles apply to furniture and other smaller projects. My son in law chopped out a housing on the wrong side of a line on the project we did together over the christmas break. Hopefully he'll have learnt a valuable lesson from that.


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Jan 2019)

I mark everything I take off the lathe as to where it was originally : bowls, spindles, anything. 99% of the time it probably doesn't matter ............... but it'll matter the one time I don't do it.


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## Farmer Giles (14 Jan 2019)

Over the weekend I got the rest of the tenons finished and did a dry fit of the frame. All looks good, all the joints are tight but only need slight mallet persuasion ,I may have one or two shoulders to slightly adjust.






next was the leg vice. First drill the chop and leg for the Benchcrafted Criss-Cross pivot pins. I don't have a long 3/8" drill so I had to go in from both sides, meaning marking up and getting it square are important.











In fact I couldn't find a 3/8" or 9.5mm drill, I do have some, just couldn't find the tin, so I used a 3/8" reamer 






Then attach the top of the Benchcrafted criss-cross arms to the chop and leg and insert the steel wear plates to the bottom of the mortices where the arms rub.






Then put the frame back together and stick a packer under the chop so you can get the pivot pin in, after a bit of waggling it goes in and the packer can be removed. The chop is now supported by the criss cross and glides lovely.






Check the toe-in, the chop should engage at the top before the bottom. I measured 7mm closer at the top which is in the range Benchcraft have in their instructions.






If it wasn't then you can adjust it by packing out the steel wear plates with a bit of veneer etc. You can see them on each side here.






Next job is to push the chop up to the leg, clamp it in place and drill the hole for the vice screw making sure that the flanged nut at the back of the leg doesn't foul the left top stretcher. That will be next weekend.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (19 Jan 2019)

I clamped the chop to the bench and marked it up for the vice screw hole which is 35mm, making sure it the screw and associated hardware had plenty of room and didn't clash with stretchers etc. I then took the chop off and drilled the hole in the pillar drill.






I then put the chop back on the frame and transferred the hole to the leg and then dismantled the frame so the leg could go in the pillar drill.

Next job was to position the screw in the chop and leg and mount the hardware making sure the screw, which is 28mm diameter, is central in the 35mm hole. To do that I found a hose adapter that was 28mm inside and 35mm outside diameter and cut a length off it. Here it is before putting the screw in the vice chop.






To make sure it was level I put another piece of the hose under the back of the screw as it comes out of the leg.






The marked off the holes with a transfer punch






I drilled the holes on the pillar drill and tapped them 6mm. The screws are 40mm long but if tapping them doesn't work I will bolt it through the chop and countersink the nuts.






After remounting the chop and fixing the front bracket to the chop, I moved the bit of hose adaptore to the back of the screw to keep the screw central in the hole in the back of the leg.






Then used a transfer punch to mark out the holes as before, then dismantled the frame and drilled and tapped the holes.






While I had the frame apart I drilled all the holes for the bolts to hold the front and back stretchers and pilot holes for the pegs in the tenons, and the holes in the two top stretchers for the big screws that hold the top down then sanded it all down, Then it was time for the youngest daughter's 10th birthday party so had to stop.

Next question is hold down and dog holes, 19mm - 3/4" or more modern 20" or both? I have both types.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

I managed to get a bit of quality workshop time in over the weekend, first I glued up the end frames and left them overnight.






Then I drilled and pegged the tenons with walnut dowels, while the glue was going off I set about the long stretchers with a 25mm forstner bit for the barrel nuts. I had already drilled the bolt holes in the legs so just a matter of drilling through these holes into the stretchers with a long 12mm auger I have, then taking them up to the required 13mm for the 1/2" bolts. The barrel nuts are 1" diameter so had to pass the 25mm forstner bit through a few time to create a bit of clearance. Placement of the barrel nuts was helped by putting the bolts into the end of the stretchers and marking off the line of the bolt on the stretcher. This worked out well and all the barrel nuts and bolts lined up first time. The only problem I had was one thread was damaged and didn't engage nicely in the barrel nut. It was has a 1/2" 13 tpi thread, fortunately I have the tap and die so run these through both barrel and bolt and all was well.






I cut off the walnut pegs with my nice little japanese flexible flush cut saw






sanded it all down, I had already sanded all the inside faces before glue up, much easier, and ended up with a complete bench base, well nearly. I have the bracing for the under-shelf and the slider for the deadman to add.






I'm quite happy with it so far, the top shoulder of the top right tenon could have been a bit tighter, but as this was my first proper go at mortice and tenon joinery I think its acceptable, besides it will be hidden under the top  I think I did one test mortice and tenon when I got the morticer 17 years ago, and have only used it once since, and that was to cut some mortices for a neighbour, he finished the mortices and cut the tenons himself. However I can see me using it more now, I have a few projects coming up.

So on to the bench tops. I marked up the mortices and cut them out on the morticer, I had to remove the clamp as they were so big. Very heavy and difficult to manoeuvre but I just about managed it with a couple of stands at their full extent and with a couple of bits of 3 x 2 on top.






I've adjusted the tenons on one bench top and it fits nicely, the second top is nearly there, probably another half an hour and both tops will be fitted, so far the joints are nice and tight. After that I need to plane down the faces slightly to remove circular saw marks and to flush them with the legs, only a couple of millimetres to remove and adjust the gap between them to be even, again, I'm expecting a couple of millimetres. I will then trim about 80mm from both ends, while the top are off being cut to length and to mill the slot for the deadman on the front bench top, I'll fit the deadman runner and the ledges for the shelf and give the base a coat of hard wax oil.

It will be next weekend before I get to do that.

Cheers
Andy


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## MikeG. (22 Jan 2019)

Those tenons don't look very long, Andy. What will hold the joint together?


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

Hi Mike

There are 4 big screws that go through the top stretchers and combined with gravity hold the top down. I know quite a few Roubo benches have through tenons, often quite intricate but as this is a softwood bench and I may want to take it apart to move it I went the for this Benchcrafted design option. I put the first half of the top on the tenons yesterday and everything is absolutely solid, no movement whatsoever even without screws. I tried to take the top of and ended up lifting the whole bench at first. I few taps with a mallet took it off but I'm well impressed considering they are only 25mm long tenons. The screws are Spax Lag Screws 5 inch x 3/8 inch with Torx50 head.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

I'm now thinking about how to shape the vice chop. It's a lamination of walnut and douglas fir over 75mm thick. I'm not going to do anything wacky with the shape, a pretty standard flat topped "keyhole" shape like the benchcrafted bench below.






My thoughts are to make a template out of MDF, screw it to the inside face of the chop after cutting most of the waste away on the bandsaw. Then use a bearing guided template trimmer in the router table. The first cut will use the template, subsequent cuts will use the work piece that has already been trimmed.

I don't have a 3"+ router bit so it will be at least 2 passes, probably more. I believe I have a bearing guided 1/2" shank cutter. Not sure it will stick out of the table enough so may need another cutter with a bearing on t'other end and flip the work over. Pity I'm not near the workshop until Friday. Wealden do sell a 75mm 1/2" shank bearing guided trimmer but it's out of stock and a bit steep for one job.

Cheers
Andy


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## AndyT (22 Jan 2019)

If you are building this because you want to get into hand tool work, those curves could provide the perfect excuse to buy a high quality rasp eg by Liogier. 
Otherwise, a largish incannel gouge, some coarse sandpaper and an offcut of plastic waste pipe should see you through. 

PS Levels of bench and budget envy are rising!


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

Interesting idea Andy, yes I do want to get into more hand tool work so this fits and I would rather spend cash on tools I would use more often than a one off router bit. I wouldn't know what "cut" to get on a rasp though, any tips?

In terms of budget I'm probably about 3 years from retirement so I'm trying to get my workshop stocked now as I will have a lot less once the pension kicks in.


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## shed9 (22 Jan 2019)

AndyT":6mkfqal3 said:


> If you are building this because you want to get into hand tool work, those curves could provide the perfect excuse to buy a high quality rasp eg by Liogier.



+1, got a few Auriou's last year and they are just lovely. I did contact Liogier before going the Auriou route but they didn't have stock or finish timeframes that worked for me. I ended up communicating with Noel (Liogier) himself - how often do you get that level of service from a world renowned tool maker.

Looking to get some more and probably will get Lioger this time around. That said I shan't be disappointed if I need to get more Auriou. 

Are they that much better than the next tool down (taking the cost into the equation), probably not and you could probably achieve similar results with a machine stitched rasp but my opinion is that whilst the end result may be very similar the work itself is very different.

Bench is looking good, the build details and pics are appreciated.


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## AndyT (22 Jan 2019)

I can't comment myself - I've not yet found a justifying project! - but I suggest you search on here for those two brand names, or contact their helpful UK resellers.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

This has been an expensive conversation! Two rasps on their way......

A 250mm 9 cut cabinet rasp and a 200mm long, 8mm diameter round rasp, cut 12


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## AndyT (22 Jan 2019)

Well, you've had nearly five years to save up!
I'm sure you won't regret getting the rasps.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

I have a flat Narex rasp, far better than others in my tool box, I'm hoping these are better still  

I bought some leather off-cuts for the vice jaws, I think I may get the missus to make a roll for the rasps, too good to throw in the drawer!


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## shed9 (22 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":3rp62aya said:


> This has been an expensive conversation! Two rasps on their way......
> 
> A 250mm 9 cut cabinet rasp and a 200mm long, 8mm diameter round rasp, cut 12



Which one did you go for, Liogier or Auriou? Would be interested in your feedback if you went the Liogier route.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jan 2019)

They are Liogier, I can provide feedback but can't compare them with any other hand cut rasps as these will be the first I've tried


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## shed9 (22 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":19balv8z said:


> They are Liogier, I can provide feedback but can't compare them with any other hand cut rasps as these will be the first I've tried



Looking forward, you won't be disappointed . I've heard nothing but positive views of them. Just interested from your perspective of moving more to hand tools. In a similar position myself, invested heavily (for me) in stationary machinery and power tools but find myself moving to the bench and hand tools. I made a decision early on to get the best I can afford where it makes sense. Auriou and / or Liogier was an obvious choice when it came to rasps. They are a pleasure to use and the lack of fine dust is bonus.


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## Bm101 (25 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":nwi8hs5h said:


> I'm now thinking about how to shape the vice chop. It's a lamination of walnut and douglas fir over 75mm thick. I'm not going to do anything wacky with the shape, a pretty standard flat topped "keyhole" shape like the benchcrafted bench below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Andy. I think my bench and yours are at about the same stage although probably vastly different standards of work I would think. Both are long term builds that have to get fitted in between other things it would seem. When I get a bit of time off at the moment I'm having a bit of time away from the house and consciously made an effort to try to finally finish the bench. Doesn't always work but the Monkey is a _little_ closer to being caught. 

I cut the leg vice for mine really early in the build for some reason. Confused and out my depth. (not much changes  ) . I was just getting into hobby not diy woodwork. Lot going on. Much concern about stuff I have hopefully moved on from So laminated some cheap hardwood together and I cut mine with an electric jigsaw. Worked okay. I got away with it but its worth a mention. Especially with those new files you have. I'd rather like to try one of those files out.  

Been (back) down the shed to take a pic of the vice leg.
Include a couple more recent ones because why not. About as close to a WIP I will get at my standard of work.


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## Farmer Giles (25 Jan 2019)

That's brilliant! =D> I wish I had used hardwood now, the Douglas fir is a bit soft, especially for the top, I guess I have plenty to plane if it needs it so probably moaning unnecessarily. Your joinery looks great to me, nothing wrong with it and I like the shape of the chop too. 

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":384hzvxl said:


> I bought some leather off-cuts for the vice jaws, I think I may get the missus to make a roll for the rasps, too good to throw in the drawer!


Leather rolls are not very good when it comes to rust as they hold any humidity touching the tool. Depending where you store them it's worth a thought for something you might not take out regularly.


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## custard (25 Jan 2019)

Bm101":2whluap1 said:


> Been (back) down the shed to take a pic of the vice leg.
> Include a couple more recent ones because why not. About as close to a WIP I will get at my standard of work.



All looks really rather good to me!

=D>


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## Farmer Giles (25 Jan 2019)

phil.p":1unzjpic said:


> Farmer Giles":1unzjpic said:
> 
> 
> > I bought some leather off-cuts for the vice jaws, I think I may get the missus to make a roll for the rasps, too good to throw in the drawer!
> ...



Good point They arrived this afternoon, they are packaged in plastic tubes so may keep them in there. I haven't had time to try them out yet, hopefully at some point over the weekend I'll get some time. I messing about with table saws and reorganising/tidying the workshop tomorrow so probably Sunday.


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## Ttrees (25 Jan 2019)

phil.p":1w9tks2v said:


> Leather rolls are not very good when it comes to rust as they hold any humidity touching the tool. Depending where you store them it's worth a thought for something you might not take out regularly.


+1 
No matter how many bottles of various oils you pour into leather tool rolls, the tools still rust and will be dry because the leather drinks and evaporates the stuff.
I've found blonde coloured suede from me mam's auld coat to be less destructive, but its not that great and expensive to be going through that much oil.
Probably to do with the way their manufactured/tanned I suppose.
Wooden boxes with plastic shopping bags anymore for me, if I'm making any more tool protection solutions.


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## Farmer Giles (26 Jan 2019)

I have a secret weapon to prevent most rust now, at least the kind caused by condensation due to a quick change of temperate leaving my lathes and other big cast machines covered in water. I have installed a pellet boiler, heat store (500 litre tank) and thermostat. At the moment I just fix the temp around about 7 celcius when I am out and turn it up to around 10c when I'm working in it. Here you can see the before and after, I turned it on around 18th Jan, after fixing a boiler power supply issue. I've included outside temp as a comparison.






Once I get some humidity detectors in there and experiment with dew point calculations I hope to be able to control the temp a bit closer so I just keep ahead of condensation to minimise running costs, currently in this cold snap its running at about 15kg of pellets a day. But I should only need it about 2 months a year, maybe 3 months max. When the background temp was hovering around 3 to 4c 15kg was lasting a couple of days.

I find about 10 to 12c is the perfect workshop temp depending if I'm sawing/planing or marking stuff out. The rest of the time it sits between 6 ad 7c. It may sound expensive but the way I look at is that I don't smoke tabs, I drink in moderation, I enjoy working in the workshop and your only here once so I spend a bit more on heating so I can enjoy the workshop in the winter.

Cheers
Andy


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## MikeG. (26 Jan 2019)

Farmer Giles":wrruhlqm said:


> ........Once I get some humidity detectors in there......



There's a simple hand-tool project for you on your new bench. A wooden hygrometer is the work of an afternoon.


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## AndyT (26 Jan 2019)

MikeG.":q3ib0ub9 said:


> Farmer Giles":q3ib0ub9 said:
> 
> 
> > ........Once I get some humidity detectors in there......
> ...



But can you fit a USB port onto it?


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## Farmer Giles (26 Jan 2019)

Dad's taxi is having a break until this evening so, back on the Roubo bench 

I have the two tops on now, so I shall be planing the saw marks out of the side an adjusting the gap between the tops as the tops have changed shape ever so slightly and I now have a 2mm difference in gap between the two ends.

I did a test with some scrap of the same thickness wood as the top, i.e. 110mm, and drilled a 19mm and 20mm holes.

The two bash down holdfasts that Ireceived from santa a couple of years ago work in both. The Sjoberg screw type holdfasts are both useless in both. So I am going with 20mm holes and getting rid of the Sjobergs, I can probably get them to work by rebating the holes from underneath so the top doesn't appear as deep but not too fussed, I have other options and I think my neighbour will probably take them off my hands.

Next is dog hole spacing. I thought it may be useful to make a partial "parf" table pattern of holes. My HNT Gordon tail vice has a travel of just over 150mm so dog holes need to be a maximum of 150mm apart. The parf guide system sets the holes at 96mm apart, so that would mean a series of holes on the front edge every 96mm. I could double the spacing elsewhere, every 192mm sounds OK. I shall go and have look and a think.

Cheers
Andy


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Jan 2019)

If you have a small morticer, drill stand or anything like that position your holdfast holes so you can bolt it through them - kill two birds with one stone. I can bolt my drill stand down so I can swing it out over the vice.


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## Farmer Giles (26 Jan 2019)

I didn't get much done on the bench today, but I can see that it's coming together and it shouldn't be too long now.

I fitted the second top then fitted the vice chop and hand wheel so I could sketch out the shape the chop will look like. It's only now that I realise how big and heavy it will be 











Tomorrow I aim to shape the chop, route the slot for the sliding deadman and plane the sides of the tops so they are flush with the legs and the gap between the two tops is even.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (28 Jan 2019)

The weekend didn't go according to plan, too many visitors to get much done. However I did make a bit of progress. First the saw marks in the front of the top, for some reason this got quite a few score marks. I had the top planed and cut to size at the nearby joiners shop as he has bigger saws and PTs, but the tops wouldn't go through their sander. You can see a few marks in this shot, some were about 2mm deep.






So out came the Clifton No6, I got this about 10 years ago, I really enjoy using it.











lovely shavings






Once I had that under control, while I had the top off the bench I routed a 36mm deep 16mm wide slot underneath for the sliding deadman.






I started marking up the tops for trimming to size and the vice chop for cutting and that was the end of the weekend.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (1 Feb 2019)

A bit more done over the last two evenings, firstly turn a recess for the handle thrust bearing with a boring bar. It's bronze so cut easily.






I'm pretty sure this is phosphor bronze, a bit brighter than the handle even when it's not just been machined, however I have some patination fluid for copper based alloys somewhere......






Try the bearing, I only want 1mm sticking out so dust ingress is kept to a minimum






Then back to woodwork, I wanted to get that out of the way in case I needed to buy any more bits of metal stock or bearings but I think it will be fine.

Next, trim the tops to size. A bit big for the mitre saw but it will cut most of it. I adjusted the level of the top with the rising table of the pedestal drill.






The saw has a big cut but not that big






So used a Japanese style pull saw to trim the rest, only took a minute, not much to do.






Then finished them off with the block plane and sander. While they were off I also drilled the pilot holes for the big lag screws that hold the tops down, I marked the holes with a transfer punch through the top stretchers before removing the tops for trimming.






After that I started on the shelf under the top. It would have been easier to do this while the tops are off but apparently I like to bang my head :roll:






And with most of the boards fitted, just one to fit around the far legs then a bit of width adjustment.






Next is the tail vice fitting. I'm thinking of using water based poly on all the undercarriage and Osmo Polyx hard wax oil on the top, vice chop and deadman. This means any bit that tends to get wear and tear as part of its duty can be refinished more easily.

Regards
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (2 Feb 2019)

I have the under shelf finished and I'm on with the sliding deadman before tackling the tail vice. I doing the deadman before the vice as I am still pontificating about the dog holes and this has an impact on the distance of the vice from the edge of the bench. The instructions from HNT Gordon say that the centre line of the vice should be between 75 and 90mm from the edge of the bench. I'm sure there is a good reason for this so I have taken that into consideration.

Here's my first punt at spacings and number of holes, I may have a few too many! I have based the hole spacing on the parf guide system, i.e. 96mm apart as I bought a "seconds" version of the mk1 system from Axminster a while ago as the price wasn't as eye-watering.

The tail vice has a 150mm throw so I could ignore the parf distance and do that, but I like the idea of using the parf guide system to set out the dog holes. It's a pity the vice doesn't have a 200mm throw or I could have missed out every other hole and have a spacing of 192mm.







So I set out the tail vice centre at 90mm from the edge, this means that the distance from the second row of dog holes on the first half of the bench is 3 x 96mm to the row of holes on the second half of the bench, or parf distances, and places the holes in the second bench bang in the middle of the slab. So I can get a 45 degree angle between front and rear halves of the bench using 3 parf dog spacings etc.

I've decided to use 20mm hold downs only, maybe even have blind holes, not sure about that though, yet, probably get full of crud.

I'm still thinking about spacing and number of holes, thoughts welcome, especially based on experience.

Cheers
Andy


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## autotrans (2 Feb 2019)

following with interest


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## Farmer Giles (3 Feb 2019)

After looking at other Roubo projects and wanting to reduce the number of holes, I think I have settled on this pattern. It still supports the Parf idea of hole spacing, but also takes into account the centre line of the leg vice.






The two rows of holes are 4 "Parf" distances apart and there is a double row of holes centred on the leg vice. I won't drill dog holes on the leg chop top, sounds too weak to me, but I can make a slot over carriage for it with dog holes in it.

I can always add more holes to the bench later if required.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (3 Feb 2019)

Before I make loads of round holes, I am going to make a rectangular one for the tail vice.

I'm putting breadboard ends of the tops, might look nice in walnut but I've decided function trumps form on a work bench. So first mark up the top. Have brew, check the dimensions again. Then have another brew and check it one more time 






The decide how to cut the slot. It will be a router, that's for sure. I have a trend jig that I've used for making square holes using a guide bush or bearing guided bit, but I need to plunge to 42mm and don't have a bearing guided bit that long, just a plane router bit. Then I thought that the hole is just a series of long grooves so a guide rail and router base would be better.






Mafell guide rail, Bosch router base and a DeWalt router may seem strange bedfellows but Mafell make the track for Bosch and their track is the same as Bosch and I modified the Bosch base to fit the DeWalt router a couple of years ago.

One of the clamps acts as the end stop so I can't go too far into the bench, in theory.....






More when I have done it. Off to check everything one last time as a mistake here will be hard to fix.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (3 Feb 2019)

I managed to get it done without major cock-up or loss of limbs. Time for lunch and dog walk.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (3 Feb 2019)

I got a bit more done on the bench, I found a small off-cut of walnut, resawed it to about 10mm then thicknessed it down to 7.5mm. I cut a slot with the same router bit as the trench for the tail vice and trimmed it to size. After a bit of fettling the vice cover plate fitted but the slot needed widening a little, so first chance I have had to try out the Lougier rasps, worked very well.






I left the plate couple of mm long so it was easier to get off with the vice fitted. The vice trench needed about 0.5mm more taking out of it, which I did with a bull nose shoulder plane and chisel.

Plate fits nicely






I then marked out all the holes on the front half of the bench with the parf system by drilling 3mm holes. I will do the back half after fixing the tops down in case screwing them down moves them a little.

Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (4 Feb 2019)

tail vice installed











20mm dog holes drilled, I had to put a few more in to get the accuracy of the parf system as you need adjacent holes to fit the pins or dogs into the jig to locate it.











I may put two more on the far side opposite the leg vice.






Do I chamfer the edges of the dog holes or not with the parf chamfer tool? Decisions decisions! I think I will then get the top sanded and run a very light rounding bit in the router around all the edges.

Cheers
Andy


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## Bm101 (4 Feb 2019)

Looks the business Andy. I know its' just a bench' etc etc etc but that walnut looks lovely nevertheless. 8) 
Second photo made me double lock my front door! Look at the size of that lad. :shock:


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## Orraloon (5 Feb 2019)

Andy,
Been watching the build as I have a pine split top. I would not chamfer the tops of the holes other than a small rub with fine sandpaper to remove any splinters. Way I see it dogs need support up to the surface level. The holes in mine that usually take the holdfasts are showing slight signs of spreading a bit at the tops after about 5 years work. Still holding fine however.
Regards
John


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## Farmer Giles (5 Feb 2019)

Orraloon":1pnct0yw said:


> Andy,
> Been watching the build as I have a pine split top. I would not chamfer the tops of the holes other than a small rub with fine sandpaper to remove any splinters. Way I see it dogs need support up to the surface level. The holes in mine that usually take the holdfasts are showing slight signs of spreading a bit at the tops after about 5 years work. Still holding fine however.
> Regards
> John



Thanks for your comments John, very useful

I've been looking at 20mm hold downs. Some 19mm hold downs do work in 20mm holes, the old fashioned hit with a mallet holdfasts for example do. But that means drilling all the way through the 4-1/2" top.

So far I have drilled holes about 50mm deep and was hoping to use the clamps I had for the MFT style table like these.






however, these require a locking screw from underneath, fine on an MFT, but apart from the screw not being long enough, too much of a faff.

Given its a split top Roubo, then I can clamp with an F-clamp in most areas, and just use the holes for dogs, and if I really do need a hold down, I could use something like the Veritas surface clamp which expands in the hole with a wedge base. Expensive but I probably only need a couple, can use them on the MFT table and the sliding deadman and I won't need to drill every hole through the table.






My Birthday is coming up so I may put one on my birthday list.

I guess if do go the blind hole route then a bit of a chamfer may be OK, especially if I use some of the Parf super dogs which I have for the MFT, these have a ring that sits in the chamfer, but these can be taken off.






I think I will do as you say and just give it a light sand for now, I can always chamfer later if I'm getting any breakout.

Cheers
Andy


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## Orraloon (6 Feb 2019)

I would drill all the way through otherwise keeping those holes clear of dust and shavings will be a royal pain in @$$. Have dog 2 holes on top of the vice chop that can't be through holes and they keep filling up. Every other time I go to use dogs in them they need scooping out. I would go insane if all the holes in the bench were like that.
Regards
John


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## Farmer Giles (9 Feb 2019)

I got a really good day in today. First I cut the sliding dead-man to size and cut the V in the base on the table saw.






Looks OK, I had cut the ledge in the top earlier and it fits in the groove nicely.






Then rough out the shape on the bandsaw






I took most of the waste in the bends away with the posh new Liogier rasps I bought then dragged out the bobbin sander I bought ages ago and used once. I wasn't that impressed with it before, I now know why. The table is buckled in the middle, it's diecast, no signs of impact but something has caused it unless it was cast that way. I shall look at it later. It is the front moving half of the table that is bent so used the fixed half. This reminds me why I usually buy old tools, buy once, buy right.






However it did a decent enough job from the flat side. I roughed out the vice chop the same way and finished it on the bobbin sander.






Looks OK, just needs trimming to height.






So trimmed it to length on the table saw and cut the 45 bevel, well so far






I cut the the rest with a Japanese pull saw then used the tail vice on the bench to hold it while I planed the bevel flat.






Then drilled the sliding dead-man






I assembled it all, next job sanding and finishing.






Cheers
Andy


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## Farmer Giles (11 Feb 2019)

I sanded and oiled it over the weekend, turned out nice but that Douglas Fir has turned out to have a bit of a Trump permatan  It should mellow a bit with exposure to light.






You can see that the top is patchy, that is caused by light, I was surprised how deep it was so decided not to sand it off as it should blend in when the light gets to it, you can see where the plans were sat for a year after I glued the tops up. There is a block in the vice as I had just glued some leather, suede side out, on the chop, just the chop not the bench. If any glue squeezed out it would end up on the block not the bench.

The chop came out well, I'm pleased with it, you can spin the handle with a finger or spin it.






Next job is to make the tool/plane stop section that fits between the tops out of this plank.






I planed up one edge this evening and cut it to width and set up the bandsaw to resaw it down to size the coming weekend. I thought that clamp would get in the way when planing but it didn't, I was going to use a peg and clamp it from behind to the deadman but no need, at least on this plank.

Cheers
Andy


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## Bm101 (12 Feb 2019)

Great stuff Andy. That is one serious bench! :shock: =D> =D> =D>


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## Farmer Giles (12 Feb 2019)

Bm101":2ji68sgo said:


> Great stuff Andy. That is one serious bench! :shock: =D> =D> =D>



Thanks, I am quite chuffed with it  Given I'm relatively new to woodwork beyond studwork and a bit of ply joinery, I avoided the complex bits like dovetailed bench ends and decorative through tenons. The difficult bit was the sheer size, moving the bench tops about the workshop made me grunt a bit. But I think sometimes simple looks better than flash, however I'm looking forward to getting my teeth into something more technical. I made loads of mistakes and learned a lot, especially how to recover from cock-ups 

I just need to get the kitchen finished before I can get stuck into some furniture, but there's a face frame and drawers to make so it's not all plywood box making.

But I haven't quite finished the bench yet, I started resawing the walnut at the weekend for the tool tray/planing stop. Top tip, to avoid getting the plank stuck on the bandsaw when the phone rings, don't just turn the bandsaw off, remove the plank from the blade first  :roll: :lol: 

Cheers
Andy


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## thetyreman (12 Feb 2019)

that doug fir is stunning as well, much nicer than pine imo, really nice bench =D>


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## Farmer Giles (12 Feb 2019)

thetyreman":3g1gqf12 said:


> that doug fir is stunning as well, much nicer than pine imo, really nice bench =D>



Thank you  I've just read your bench thread, lovely bench and very nicely done. How is it ageing?

Cheers
Andy


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## thetyreman (14 Feb 2019)

Farmer Giles":1orlr80q said:


> thetyreman":1orlr80q said:
> 
> 
> > that doug fir is stunning as well, much nicer than pine imo, really nice bench =D>
> ...



thanks andy, it's ageing very well, there's a few dents in it though, and I've added an apron drawer, shelves and other drawers in one end of it. I'm not really the careful type with benches, there's some wear at the edges of the vice jaws where it meets the top from sawing but it doesn't bother me much, it actually makes it easier to saw once it wares away, I also added a couple of holes for holdfasts which I don't use often but they're handy when you need them.


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