# New woodwork program on the telly



## brianhabby (20 Jan 2007)

Hi there,

I noticed that Discovery H&L have a new program called 'Wood Works' on at 10:00pm each weekday evening featuring Anton Fitzpatrick. (He made a boat in another program).

I thought he might be worth watching. He first made a bench, then I saw him make a bathroom cupboard. I was very disappointed - very shoddy workmanship - and that filming......usual H&L camera gymnastics.

Why don't the British film makers make programs that show true craftsmanship? Why does everything have to be done as quickly as possible, as if that is the main aim. I'm sure almost all keen woodworkers would rather spend more time on a project that rush out some of the rubbish they show you on TV.

People knock Norm Abram but whatever you think of his techniques, he always does a great job and the filming is second to none.

regards

Brian


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## mambo (20 Jan 2007)

these shows are re-runs
like you say his work is pretty shoddy
did you see the one where he made the butcher block :shock: 
and in one show i saw him using a RAS by pulling the saw right out and cutting on the return stroke :?


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jan 2007)

mambo":2jkjngd7 said:


> in one show i saw him using a RAS by pulling the saw right out and cutting on the return stroke :?



Right, I'm going to stick my neck out and demonstrate my ignorance here.

Why is the above such a bad thing to do? Yes, I've always pulled a RAS towards me, too, and if the board is as wide as the saw's capacity, one has no choice. But surely, assuming one can start the blade clear of the workpiece, pushing is a safer way to work? A SCMS can start clear anyway, so even at max width this is an option. The movement of the workpiece relative to the blade is the same, then as on a tablesaw. It can't climb cut, and I bet we've all experienced that on a RAS. And climbing on a router table is, in my experience, the biggest cause of kickback.

I'd have thought that pushing is a much better way to do it, within the limitations of the workpiece and RAS.

OK, now tell me I'm wrong!


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## mambo (21 Jan 2007)

i wouldnt want to try it!

surely when you pull the teeth of the blade are cutting on the down stroke forcing the workpiece down onto the table
cutting by pushing the teeth are cutting on the upstroke trying to pull the workpiece up off the table
this leads me to assume that if you let the blade run away like can often happen with a RAS you putting yourself in a dangerous situation.... :?:


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## Jorden (21 Jan 2007)

Hi Steve

If you consider the direction the blade is turning on a RAS, two problems become evident. When cutting on the pull stroke the cutting part of the blade is coming down into the timber and forcing it up against the guides and down onto the RAS bed. It then passes through the timber leaving on the rear face away from your marking. 

Cutting on the push stroke the blade is again pushing the timber against the guides, but the cutting edge is now rising so it trying to lift the timber off the RAS bed. This isn't so much of a problem with shallow cuts, but a deeper cut can cause the timber to roll against the guide and jam. The second part of the problem is now the blade is leaving the timber on the marked face side. Again this may not be a problem with shallow cuts but deeper cuts will cause breakout with all but the sharpest of blades. 

Dennis :wink:


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jan 2007)

Yes, OK, I can see that, thanks for the explanation. I guess it's one of those cases of least imperfect method. I have to say that when I had a RAS, I often had trouble with climbing when cutting thick stock. It was always a scary experience.

For me, breakout on the face edge would be the biggest deterrent.

Thanks for putting me straight.


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## davy_owen_88 (21 Jan 2007)

I caught an episode the other day, I can't actually remember what he made because I really thought the program was rubbish and only watched a bit.

I must say I found the 'lesson' on drills very interesting... not. If they had someone in who didn't just read what the bit was for from a catalogue it might have been worth it but someone saying 'this is a forstner bit, its more expensive than a spade bit' is not really beneficial to me.

I'd pick New Yankee Workshop any day of the week...


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## jonny boy (22 Jan 2007)

Let's all bombarde the discovery channel with Emails asking to re-run better programs like great british woodworker then! Or even better, get the new series of New Yankee on.


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## Scrit (22 Jan 2007)

mambo":bsh9nri5 said:


> .....in one show i saw him using a RAS by pulling the saw right out and cutting on the return stroke :?


There's a technical term for guys like him - plonker! Not only is he reducing the crosscut capacity of his saw, but a push cut will generate "uplift" all the way back to the fence and he's also got to start the saw blade in an exposed position rather than where it should be - behind the fence at the back of the saw. Add to that if the saw is fitted (as many are nowadays) with an automatic return mechanism he is effectively ensuring that in the event of a problem in the cut the head will not return harmlessly to the rear of the machine and will instead potentially eject the work. Correct "plonker" and substitute "dangerous, incompetent plonker". Unlike the RAS saw, an SCMS saw has a spring mechanism which lifts the blade clear of the workpiece and "homes" it (not to mention covering the blade with the guard and powering down the motor) in the event that the operator lets go mid cut



mambo":bsh9nri5 said:


> Surely when you pull the teeth of the blade are cutting on the down stroke forcing the workpiece down onto the table cutting by pushing the teeth are cutting on the upstroke trying to pull the workpiece up off the table?


The main difference is that the SCMS is often used to mitre cornice moulding held in the actual final fixing orientation (i.e. finish face outwards/downwards) and the moulding is supposed to be held down by a clamp during the cut and where the quality of the cut is imperative. A pull-out cut in this instance would result in a downwards cut direction which would producing spelching at the edge of the cut. Conversely on those occasions when it is necessary to cut a moulding face side _up_ then an RAS-like pull-out cut needs to be adopted. Cornice mouldings are frequently paper foil or veneer wrapped MDF, hence the need for caution. Ask any experienced kitchen fitter.

The RAS, on the other hand, simply cannot accommodate this manouver, which means it can only achieve a downwards cut direction. For this reason manufacturers of RASs frequently advise users to make sacrificial MDF or plywood baseboard to go beneath the work. This baseboard acts as a sort of "zero-clearance" insert.



mambo":bsh9nri5 said:


> This leads me to assume that if you let the blade run away like can often happen with a RAS you putting yourself in a dangerous situation.... :?:


Errr..... when would a blade run away? Are you referring to a climb cut?

Scrit


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## brianhabby (23 Jan 2007)

jonny boy":a0l8jpst said:


> Let's all bombarde the discovery channel with Emails asking to re-run better programs like great british woodworker then! Or even better, get the new series of New Yankee on.



Okay, I've just sent my email to them. Lets all do the same. You will have to go through their website and use the form but they will only let you use up to 250 characters in your comments - I wanted to say a lot more to them!

regards

Brian


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## RinkyDinky (25 Jan 2007)

I saw the program recently and now find it compulsive viewing.

It's SO BAD !

He makes me cringe when making his projects, whacking in nails where a decent woodworker wouldn't dream of using them. etc. etc. etc

When making things, I do appreciate there are many ways to skin a cat, but this guys approach and technique is so poor, i have to watch it, in amazement at the junk he produces and the quality (or lack of..) of his workmanship.

Norm.... Please come back!

I have emailed Discovery Channel at this link to put over my views:

http://www.realtimetv.co.uk/_contact/


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## brianhabby (25 Jan 2007)

Well I've had a response to my email and although it was not very positive, at least they read it. If more people started emailing them we just might have an impact so I implore everyone who reads this to *SEND AN EMAIL TO DISCOVERY* and let people power do its business.

Here is a copy of their reply

_Dear Brian,

Thank you for contacting Discover,

Unfortunately there is no plans at present to show the new seasons of 'The New Yankee Workshop' and the 'Great British Woodshop'.

Please do not hesitate to contact us in the future on www.discovery.co.uk.

Kind Regards

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team_


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## brianhabby (25 Jan 2007)

Just noticed at the time of writing this there have been 518 views of this topic. Just think of the effect on the Discovery channel if they got 518 emails! Surely they would have to take notice, _wouldn't they_.

regards

Brian


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## CarlC (25 Jan 2007)

The only good thing about Wood Works is the thing where that geeza with the curly afro shows u tools :lol: 
They had one on yesturday and it was about the router.
I now what a router does and is. :lol: 
I wandered how they did the weird thing around me floor. :lol:


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## jonny boy (25 Jan 2007)

In the program wood works I too can say that the standard of his work can be a little hap hazard but if we are talking about that guy called Anton Fitzpatrick, he also used to present a show called dreamboats where he guided mere mortals through the step by step process of building small boats. In this program he seemed to know what he was doing and one of the boats he made was exellent and I take my hat off to him for that. Boat building is a specialist area and something that I for one, know nothing about.
cheers,
jon.


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## brianhabby (25 Jan 2007)

I agree, his boat program was good. It was because of this that I thought the Wood Works program would be worth watching but I was wrong.

regards

Brian


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## Shadowfax (26 Jan 2007)

I sent them a most uncomplimentary email last night.
This was the reply.

Dear Sir/Madam, 

Thank you for contacting Discovery Real Time. 

We appreciate the time you took to write to us with your comments. We are always working to improve our service, and will take your comments and ideas under consideration.

Kind Regards, 

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team
E002847


Hmmm!

SF


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## Lord Nibbo (27 Jan 2007)

I sent an email several days ago. 

So may I say here

"Anton if you got the sack I'm sorry" no I'm not. :twisted:


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## misterfish (28 Jan 2007)

I've been keeping an eye out for the new series of Norm for a while. :norm: Looking at comments others have made on the web (including an ex-Discovery employee) it seems that (allegedly) Discovery only really want the subscription payment and aren't interested in anything else. Others that have contacted RT using either their website, forums or even writing have had no success - usually the 'Thanks for contacting us - we'll consider your comments" type replies.

I also find it a bit disappointing that if you look at the RealTime web site that they don't mention NYW at all, yet make a big thing about the 'quality'  Boyz in the Wood.

Mind you, despite what they say about scheduling the new series, they may do what they did with This Old House - started showing the new series without it being mentioned at all - SWMBO only picked up on it as the on screen info mentioned the new host Kevin. It was also first shown between 2 and 3 pm on weekdays.

The other thing about NYW is that they keep showing most of the series, but it is a fair time (years) since they showed series 5, 6 and 8 (as well as the sailing boat and gazebo from series 7); it would be nice to see them again.

Currently we can't get Sky at all as our builders have blocked the satellite dish with scaffolding. This wouldn't be so bad, but I've also managed to fracture my leg so can't do anything in the workshop - even getting out of the house through the building site is difficult. In frustration for something else to look at I scoured the web and found poor quality copies of some of series 18 and 19. It was nice to see some of the new projects and I'm now waiting to see them transmitted properly on RT. Mind you, Norm is still too keen on the old donkey brown stain as well as 'olde time' paint colours - we both wish he would let the natural grain and figuring of the wood show through - of course, this might just be a difference in our and American taste.

MisterFish


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## Lord Nibbo (28 Jan 2007)

Well I did post this on their web site after several rewrites trying to knock it down to 250 characters and losing what I really thought. :evil: 

_Re: Woodworks. I really think the producers of this programme should read this thread https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... sc&start=0

Do not reply with your standard acknowledgement, please reply on the above url._

I had to edit it down some what as I did write what I thought of the progamme ](*,) so come on every one let them know how this programme is lacking and what should be done to improve it. Not that it will do any good I suppose  well perhaps they just might do something!


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## Alf (28 Jan 2007)

Ooo, you could have saved yourself a load of characters by cutting the url down to https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=14122


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## Lord Nibbo (28 Jan 2007)

I cant see why discovery cant make a series in the uk similar to that of Norm Abrams, with all the free advertising my bet is most dealers/manufacturers would be climbing over themselves to supply machinery/tools etc etc. Anyone want to be the New New Yankee then?


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## mambo (28 Jan 2007)

Lord Nibbo":ji19cikk said:


> Anyone want to be the New New Yankee then?



maybe that should be the new "Old English Workshop" :lol:


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## Scrit (28 Jan 2007)

Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:

Scrit


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## Anonymous (28 Jan 2007)

Scrit":3sg67jcm said:


> Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:
> 
> Scrit



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: its the way you tell um.


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## brianhabby (28 Jan 2007)

So how many have emailed Discovery?

We really should keep up the momentum of the emails, I'm convinced people power could just do some good.

The Great British Woodshop with David Free was a pretty good program. I read somewhere that the producer of that program used to work on the New Yankee Workshop. This might explain the quality of the programing.

Never mind the quality of the woodwork, the filming of the British programs is absolutely appalling. Every time the presenter actually does anything the cameraman goes completely and utterly bananas, zooming in and out at great speed and panning like a man possessed - and that stupid music, if that's what you can call it - so you never actually get to see him working. If I start watching one of these programs, I rarely continue because I simply cannot stand to watch when the cameraman gets going.

So come on people - send an email to Discovery - Don't leave it to the next man, there should be enough of us to make a difference.

regards

Brian


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jan 2007)

Scrit":venapeqd said:


> Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:



Now that would be worth watching  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Fecn (29 Jan 2007)

Scrit":jt3i0kz6 said:


> Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:
> 
> Scrit



Sounds great to me - I'd love to see you guys in action. I've been thinking for a while that we could do with a good UK woorkworking show on the air. Please break out your camcorders, and get filming


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## Anonymous (29 Jan 2007)

Hi Scrote,




Scrit":1n4yogi9 said:


> Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:
> 
> Scrit



Speak for yourself, Pops! :lol:

Cheers
Brad


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## brianhabby (29 Jan 2007)

I've been thinking about this and seriously, I am convinced that if discovery made a series featuring some of the people from this forum it would be a really really interesting programme - there could even be some money in it. There would be tremendous benefit to all of us in seeing how a wide variety of different people tackle their jobs. I think it would be a fascinating series.

We would have to insist that they film it properly though. What do you think, should we put the idea to them?

regards

Brian


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## Lord Nibbo (29 Jan 2007)

brianhabby":36ab9p79 said:


> I've been thinking about this and seriously, I am convinced that if discovery made a series featuring some of the people from this forum it would be a really really interesting programme - there could even be some money in it. There would be tremendous benefit to all of us in seeing how a wide variety of different people tackle their jobs. I think it would be a fascinating series.
> 
> We would have to insist that they film it properly though. What do you think, should we put the idea to them?
> 
> ...


 
Maybe if they filmed the next get together at Phillies it would make a good comedy or maybe even a panto :lol: On a more serious note, yes it would make a fascinating show.


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## Anonymous (29 Jan 2007)

Scrit":cr2fb0ci said:


> Maybe Brad, Senior and myself could run one. Although it would have to be called "Grumpy Old English Workshop".......... :wink:
> 
> Scrit



I think I would be the young looking apprentice in the back ground,


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## Philly (29 Jan 2007)

Lord N
Great idea, although you might be right about it turning into a Panto :lol: 
Maybe we could lock a few members in the workshop for a few weeks and film them constantly on hidden cameras. A great cross-over idea???
"New Yankee Brother" anyone????? :twisted: 
No, didn't think so........ :lol: 
Cheers
Philly  
(who has a face for radio.....)


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## Lord Nibbo (29 Jan 2007)

Philly":ye9oy98x said:


> Maybe we could lock a few members in the workshop for a few weeks and film them constantly on hidden cameras.
> Cheers
> Philly
> (who has a face for radio.....)



30 minutes of watching them drink tea 8-[ :wink: filmed over two days like :norm:


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## Alf (29 Jan 2007)

Lord Nibbo":3jkdv8z1 said:


> 30 minutes of watching them drink tea 8-[ :wink: filmed over two days like :norm:


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Philly (29 Jan 2007)

You know, I could do this. :lol: 
I don't even need to practise my tea-drinking :roll: 
Philly


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## Lord Nibbo (29 Jan 2007)

Philly":5a5iq2ss said:


> You know, I could do this. :lol:
> I don't even need to practise my tea-drinking :roll:
> Philly


 Actually looking at your avatar, there is a good subject for one programme, you making one of those dinky infills, DC showing how to get the best out of it and Alf doing a shoot out revue Phillies dinky v LN ... or


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## Lord Nibbo (29 Jan 2007)

I think it's time to gently remind Discovery of how dreadfull that Woodworks programme is, so i'm off to send my third message

http://www.realtimetv.co.uk/_contact/ 

and they ain't replied to my first message yet (hammer) 


Anyone care to join me, come on pull your finger out.


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## Vormulac (30 Jan 2007)

I sent:

"Hello. Please, please, please, for the love of all that's good in this world, can we have a quality woodworking programme? The New Yankee Workshop, The Great British Woodshop and The Cutting Edge Woodworker are good examples. "

I got:

"Thank you for contacting Discovery Real Time. 

We appreciate the time you took to write to us with your comments. We are always working to improve our service, and will take your comments and ideas under consideration.

Kind Regards, 

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team"

Not holding my breath...

V.


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## mambo (30 Jan 2007)

isnt there some controlling body for tv?
i`m sure they would be interested in the hse issues the show WoodWorks is promoting

points of view anyone? :lol:


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## jonny boy (30 Jan 2007)

Hi,
I've just been reading this and when I said early on in this thread "let's all bombard discovery with emails", I never dreamed it would strike a note with so many members, I'm beginning to think along Brians's lines and maybe this kind of people power could achieve great things!
If everyone did send an email, I'm sure it would be the most popular response to any program subject that discovery channel has ever had.
They have to take notice of that don't they?

cheers,
jon.


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## Paul Chapman (30 Jan 2007)

mambo":307t0qju said:


> isnt there some controlling body for tv?
> i`m sure they would be interested in the hse issues the show WoodWorks is promoting



Ofcom http://www.ofcom.org.uk/

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## brianhabby (30 Jan 2007)

jonny boy":30rsvska said:


> Hi,
> I've just been reading this and when I said early on in this thread "let's all bombard discovery with emails", I never dreamed it would strike a note with so many members, I'm beginning to think along Brians's lines and maybe this kind of people power could achieve great things!
> If everyone did send an email, I'm sure it would be the most popular response to any program subject that discovery channel has ever had.
> They have to take notice of that don't they?
> ...



As Jon says, we really should bombard Discovery with emails about their poor programming. Let's just do it - what's more, let's do it - _*every day*_ until they start to take notice. There is no reason why we can't send them an email every day until they do something about the problem.

At the time of writing this there have been almost 1600 views of this topic. Just imagine the impact if all the people who have looked at this topic sent an email to Discovery.

I make no apology for keep banging on about this, we really can make a difference.

Go for it.....

regards

Brian


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## Lord Nibbo (30 Jan 2007)

Vormulac":h3modvjc said:


> The New Yankee Workshop, The Great British Woodshop and The Cutting Edge Woodworker are good examples. "



Yes good choices, but who chooses the repeats? I've seen one programme of Norms that I've seen repeated three times in about a month now thats just too much, why they cant show some real old ones just for a change? and why do we have to wait over a year to see what the yanks are seeing now? "*Discovery*" it should be called "*Rediscovered*"


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## Gaz_XB9R (31 Jan 2007)

Ok, I've written the e-mail too but where to send it?

Is the automated form the only choice? 

50 characters is not much use.

Gaz


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## promhandicam (31 Jan 2007)

brianhabby":3irzh077 said:


> Well I've had a response to my email . . .Here is a copy of their reply
> 
> _Dear Brian,
> 
> ...



When the programmers can't even write basic English there isn't a lot of hope in them being interested in quality woodworking shows! Unfortunately, or perhaps in this case fortunately, I can't comment as I've never seen any woodworking program on TV and had never heard of 'Norm' until I joined this happy throng. I have to say from what I've learnt in the last 6 months since participating here I'm not sure that I've missed much not having access to satellite or cable TV. I'd rather be in the workshop than stuck in front of the box. If I want to watch an amateur doing woodwork I suppose I could put a mirror up above my bench :wink: 

Steve


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## Chris Knight (31 Jan 2007)

Steve,
It has become fashionable to knock Norm once one has acquired a certain amount of skill but truth be told, he got many folk here interested in woodworking!


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## Freetochat (31 Jan 2007)

Unfortunately, we all want something for nothing and with channels maintaining services through advertising revenues, they are limited on what they can pay to support new programs. I'm sure that a premium rated channel would be able to buy new programs from the likes of Norm or The Great British Workshop, but who will pay the subscriptions, especially when the channel has such wide ranging interest groups.


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## Lord Nibbo (31 Jan 2007)

A result.

We must be getting through to them, hopefully the right people pick up on this thread.

I say again the messages must be working as I have had a response from then and it's not one of your pre scripted type answers.

This is what they replied to me.
_*
Dear David,

Thank you for contacting Discovery Real Time.

We are very sorry to hear that you have been disappointed by 'Wood Works'. We appreciate that some programmes may not suit all of our viewers' tastes. We will take note of your comments, and forward them to the relevant department on your behalf.

Kind Regards,

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team
E002847*_

So come on don't give up trying for something better.


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## brianhabby (31 Jan 2007)

As Lord Nibbo says above 'come on don't give up trying for something better'.



Gaz_XB9R":1cuu379i said:


> Ok, I've written the e-mail too but where to send it?
> 
> Is the automated form the only choice?
> 
> ...



When you use the form to send them a message their reply _(assuming you get one)_ will have an email address attached, you can then reply to their reply with as long a message as you like. 

For info that email address is: [email protected]ry-europe.com

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (31 Jan 2007)

Freetochat":2i8fqh4m said:


> Unfortunately, we all want something for nothing



I don't want something for nothing - I'm paying for it with my Sky subscription which I think is enough already. Whatever I pay for I expect quality.

regards

Brian


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## Freetochat (1 Feb 2007)

brianhabby":1ytg1gbw said:


> Freetochat":1ytg1gbw said:
> 
> 
> > Unfortunately, we all want something for nothing
> ...



You may well get the channel via sky, but these are free to air channels that are received via the sky box as in the BBC, ITV and other channels that can be accessed. If Discovery was placed on the same footing as the movie or sports channels then perhaps the revenue would improve the programming. But then, it survives on house sales, bodged DIY and fishing the last time I looked. Apparently these are in greater demand.


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## Pete W (1 Feb 2007)

Freetochat":uwgc8eoe said:


> You may well get the channel via sky, but these are free to air channels that are received via the sky box as in the BBC, ITV and other channels that can be accessed.



I'm afraid not - Sky sells everything in 'mixes'. Discovery Channel, Discovery Wings and Discovery Civilization are in the 'Knowledge Mix'; Discovery Realtime and related channels are in the 'Style & Culture Mix'. If you want all the Discovery Channels, therefore, you have to buy two packages.

There are a hundred or so free channels (full list here) but most are complete rubbish.


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## PaulO (1 Feb 2007)

I don't think the people at Discovery Re*e*l Time are listening. As long as the debt consolidation / missold endowment / personal injury lawyers keep paying for advertising time, they will keep showing "Tattoo my Fish in your New House in Spain Revisited".

You could always join the three year running mud slinging that is going on in the Discovery Workshop forums:
Programme scheduling on Real Time


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## Shadowfax (2 Feb 2007)

This is the latest reply to me. I contacted them again because I thought their first reply was somewhat generic.
This is as well but it does look like someone actually read my message this time.


"Thank you for contacting Discovery Real Time. 

The majority of the programmes shown on Discovery Real Time are produced by independent production companies, including 'New Yankee Workshop' and 'The Great British Woodshop'. We are aware that many of our viewing audience enjoy 'New Yankee Workshop' and we will continue to try and air new series of this programme in the future. Unfortunately, there are no plans for a new series at present. 

We are very sorry to hear that you have been disappointed by 'Woodworks' and 'Boyz In The Wood'. We appreciate that some programmes may not suit all of our viewers' tastes. We will take note of your comments, and forward them to the relevant department on your behalf. 
Kind Regards, 

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team"

We might just be having a small effect here.

SF


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## mr (2 Feb 2007)

Freetochat":31drm3mm said:


> You may well get the channel via sky, but these are free to air channels that are received via the sky box as in the BBC, ITV and other channels that can be accessed.



Erm, no they're not, you can only get them via subscription as far as I can see. Least I can't get them via my digital tv or non subscribed Sky box. I'll be yer best friend i you can tell me how to do that wee bit of magic. 


Freetochat":31drm3mm said:


> Unfortunately, we all want something for nothing and with channels maintaining services through advertising revenues, they are limited on what they can pay to support new programs.


From where I sit I see them receiving advertising revenues and subscription fees. That's not something for nothing. 


waterhead37":31drm3mm said:


> It has become fashionable to knock Norm once one has acquired a certain amount of skill but truth be told, he got many folk here interested in woodworking!



I'll put my hand up and say its all Norm s fault. He also cost me a fortune in rubbish powertools, few of which I have any more, most self destructed. But I've come to the realisation that I can still watch Norm (well I can't cos I only have the 4 land channels) but I could watch Norm and carry out pretty much the same work with my handtools albeit slower and to a lower standard due to skill deficiency, of course the last bit will change ( I KId myself) 


Cheers Mike


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## Freetochat (3 Feb 2007)

Perhaps I should explain further:-

A subscription for sky is for the use of a digibox, card and the furnishing of satelite signals to receive a range of channels whether from the BBC, ITV or many of the channels. You are not paying for the channels, but purely the ability to receive those bundled. Pay channels are the ones like sports and movie channels. These are premium channels on the basis that through paying you get to see top sporting events and movies etc. Discovery is operated on the basis of advertising revenue like most commercial channels. My point being that if Discovery was a premium channel, then through subscriptions they would have the buying power to improve their programming. A simple process of having more money to spend.

Of course, many of Norms programs are available on dvd/video as an addition when buying plans.


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## mr (3 Feb 2007)

Isn't it more the case that the Discovery channel and all the other Discovery network channels, with the exception of the new DMAX free to air channel in Germany, are subscription models which are sold to subscription bundle operators (like Sky) for redistribution. As such they do not exist by virtue of advertising revenue alone. 

Cheers Mike


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## brianhabby (3 Feb 2007)

Discovery Channel must get at least a portion of what Sky take off me each month, but however they are financed doesn't excuse the garbage they put out.

Regards

Brian


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## jonny boy (5 Feb 2007)

Any television channel by showing a program is providing a service to the public and therefore in my opinion, if they constantly receive comments and suggestions about possible shows, they have an obligation to do whatever they can to answer those suggestions. Otherwise we only get to see things like wood works. This would be a golden opportunity for discovery to show how it does listen to it's viewers and does provide a good service. 
When all said and done, what is really stopping them from showing a few shows that a lot of people have asked them to.

jon.


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