# Web tracking conundrum



## RogerS (6 Dec 2015)

LOML was searching on the John Lewis website for preset ideas. She'd gone there directly and not via any Google search. 

A week or so later she happened to be browsing Amazon and noticed that in the 'recently searched items' on Amazon were almost a mirror image of the times she'd searched for on the JL site. In fact, she popped back to the JL site to double-check. She had not searched Amazon for any of those items in the Amazon list.

So :-

a) how do they do that

b) how can she/we stop it

She is using a Mac.

TIA


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## Zeddedhed (6 Dec 2015)

Duck Duck Go might help. Although I've never tried it I believe it's a non-trackable anonymous browser, although I could well be wrong.

There are other ways of stopping which will involve hiding IP addresses, turning on weapons-grade security, blocking cookies etc but you need someone with more expertise than me for all that stuff.


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## AJB Temple (6 Dec 2015)

I sympathise. Drives me nuts too. It is not clear from your post whether she is using Google as her browser (Chrome) or using Google as a search engine via another browser. The tracking settings are usually controlled in the browser, so for example in Chrome she can go into the chrome menu, click settings, click advanced, click privacy and then elect do not track. This is not perfect but it helps quite a bit. 

She can also help herself by choosing what cookies she accepts, clearing her cookie cache and also turning off any location "service". The latter can have consequences though, such as tendency to load US web sites when you are expecting UK search results. 

There are ways of dealing with this to a much greater extent, up to almost totally, but they require software that is not free and some IT skill. I use them in a work environment but not at home. I do not use Chrome except when forced to largely because the google marketing machine is very focussed on selling you stuff one way or another. You get a free search engine, they get your data....

I also recommend adblock plus, which is free, easy to download, works well and does not carry malware or bloat. This will greatly improve much browsing. I think it is shareware with a voluntary contribution.


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## AJB Temple (6 Dec 2015)

PS, I meant to add, as Zedd suggested (very good idea), duckduckgo will work, and will not track your wife, but you need to realise it is US centric. Therefore it is truly useless for shopping as she will get mostly US results. This is an upstream process so there is little can be done about it even if the UK region is selected. It will however, default reasonably well to Amazon UK if you set it up correctly. My guess is that for shipping she will still need to resort to Google via Chrome or Safari. 

She can of course also use private browsing in Chrome using Incognito mode. This is less effective than you might think as although browser history is not retained, the web sites she visits still get her IP address. The more layers of defence you build up, the more effective they are, but also the more hassle when she wants to go back to things. 

There is certainly a market for this but hard to monetise. I think we have to accept that Google and FaceBook own the internet right now unfortunately.


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## RogerS (6 Dec 2015)

Thanks for the suggestions. She does use mainly Chrome (and I'd forgotten that it belongs to Google...so maybe there is something in Chrome that is snitching..I'll check her settings).

Tracking cookies are the right term, I believe, and there are some utilities that will remove them. CookieStumbler on the Mac is one although requires a later OS then she has installed. I just ran it on my Mac. Had 10,000 + cookies of which 3000 were allegedly tracking cookies! So I deleted them but the initial downside is that the cookie for logging in automatically also got deleted. No big deal (so far) as Safari auto-fills the login age and so all you have to do is hit Return.


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## AJB Temple (6 Dec 2015)

You will not have any issues with passwords being lost of you use Mac's keychain feature or a password security system such as LastPass. (There are loads: as I also use Mac I have used 1Password for some years). 

You may well find it is worth going through your wife's keychain and clearing that up too (and yours). If you have accumulated 3000 cookies I am guessing you have not had a cookie clear out for quite a while. As I am sure you know if you click on your browser icon (e.g. Safari) preferences and then pricy, you can set cookie options and expert a degree of control. 

Good luck with defending her against internet search engine snoops!!


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## JohnPW (6 Dec 2015)

You can set your browser:

not to accept 3rd party tracking cookies. When you need to, eg making a card payment on an online retailer, you can turn it back on.

delete all cookies when you close the browser.

to reject all cookies and only accept cookies on a site by site basis. Firefox has add-ons which make this more convenient.

You can also reset your router, which will give you a new IP address.


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## artie (6 Dec 2015)

I have pretty much got rid of the Great Satan which is windows. I now use Linux mint 99 or more % of the time. I use duck duck go for a search engine and adblock to keep from being pestered.

Sometimes I have to resort to google like a few days ago when I needed a local phone number for a sole trader, who stopped trading over ten years ago. Not a chance on DDG but google spat it out in .36 of a second.


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## RogerS (6 Dec 2015)

JohnPW":1dal2nca said:


> ....
> You can also reset your router, which will give you a new IP address.



That will depend on your ISP. Many these days allocate fixed IP addresses. Ours is fixed but not worried about it.


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## mseries (6 Dec 2015)

Cookies get lodged in your browser if you permit them, then when the same site that sent them is revisited the cookies are also sent. A cookie from www.johnlewis.com will not be sent to www.amazon.co.uk but, the John Lewis website may use a tracking service from some other supplier which lodges the cookie in the browser. Thus if you visit another site that uses the same tracking system it will get the cookies on behalf of the second site and hence get the information from the first site or others. You can simply remove all cookies after each browsing session to stop this.


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## Rhossydd (6 Dec 2015)

As previous respondents have said it is _possible_ to reduce the amount you're tracked, but it takes a fair degree of effort and inconvenience.

Maybe look at it from a different angle; Whatever happens sites like Amazon are going to include 'recommendations' for you, if you don't allow those tracking cookie recommendations they will be completely random and probably a useless distraction. At least with content based on past searches there's a chance that something of genuine interest will be shown.
OK it might be embarrassing if you've searched for something you'd prefer other people not to see over your shoulder, eg something for a Christmas present, but when making those searches it's time to use 'private sessions' as most modern browsers offer anyway.


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## Monkey Mark (6 Dec 2015)

You could also use a site such as https://hide.me/en/proxy
From there go to amazon/google uk and you should then get UK relevant search results.

Also useful for obviating work related internet restrictions. :wink:


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## mseries (7 Dec 2015)

Tracking generally doesn't use IP addresses since they can and do change. Think of a mobile device connecting using WiFi or 3G/4G, your IP will differ depening on which access point/router you connect through. Your browser is constant and cookies are sent back to sites that issue them. The are sent as part of the http request from the browser, this happens regardless of the proxy server, router/modem or ISP, they have no business interferring with my cookies.


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## RogerS (7 Dec 2015)

mseries":11c2spkl said:


> ...The are sent as part of the http request from the browser, this happens regardless of the proxy server, router/modem or ISP, they have no business interferring with my cookies.



Out of curiosity, does the TOR browser save cookies, do you know ?


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## mseries (7 Dec 2015)

RogerS":2610hpq0 said:


> mseries":2610hpq0 said:
> 
> 
> > ...The are sent as part of the http request from the browser, this happens regardless of the proxy server, router/modem or ISP, they have no business interferring with my cookies.
> ...


It allows only session cookies as far as I can see so won't save them when closed. (You can set the others to do this). I haven't used TOR so my information is from a quick googling for "tor browser cookies"


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## RogerS (7 Dec 2015)

Intriguingly that pop up Privacy thing that Google has been encouraging us to read is now upfront and has a lot of goodies and settings which should help minimise this tracking and adverts.


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## mseries (8 Dec 2015)

something weird just happened to me that I thought you might be interested in. I was researching for work where a certain cookie originated from so I googled for "AMCV_ cookie". The first hit was a page explaining the use of cookies on a particular site and that site used the AMCV_ cookie which is set by some tracking system from Adobe. The wierd part is that the site that I found is for a Fiat 500X and that was the very model that I hired over the weekend. I didn't search for it on this computer.


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## RogerS (8 Dec 2015)

mseries":2o4vlo9u said:


> something weird just happened to me that I thought you might be interested in. I was researching for work where a certain cookie originated from so I googled for "AMCV_ cookie". The first hit was a page explaining the use of cookies on a particular site and that site used the AMCV_ cookie which is set by some tracking system from Adobe. The wierd part is that the site that I found is for a Fiat 500X and that was the very model that I hired over the weekend. I didn't search for it on this computer.



Coincidence perhaps? Correlation is not necessarily causation. Any other explanation is too scary :shock:


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## Rhossydd (8 Dec 2015)

mseries":2euzk63l said:


> some tracking system from Adobe.


Adobe are one of the biggest players in using 'Big Data' as it's colloquially called. The digital imaging business which many people have heard of is only a small part of their overall business. I've spent a couple of weeks working at their big digital marketing seminars and when you hear what they can do with tracking data in all it's various forms it's absolutely staggering.


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## Rhossydd (8 Dec 2015)

RogerS":jsyu7ehv said:


> Any other explanation is too scary :shock:


Be scared/amazed. They can, and do, track your data all the way through to you actually buying a Fiat 500.


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