# Dovetail template



## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

Made this little baby today out of some reclaimed sapele and ash.

















You can use it as a template to mark out your tails and it also could be used as a saw guide made it the same size as the tails i had to cut . Its a 1.6 pitch for softwood.

Cheers Bern


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## blackrodd (29 Mar 2014)

What a cracking little Gem! Thanks for that. Regards Rodders


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## Glynne (29 Mar 2014)

I'd almost be frightened to use it as in case I damaged it!


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

Glynne":3tsjdnub said:


> I'd almost be frightened to use it as in case I damaged it!



Glynne Took me an hour to make this first one and most of that time was spent rummaging through the timber pile to find something nice. Working out the size and spacing the tails ,actual build time was 20 minutes . Now if i have to make another i think it would only take 15 minutes so no big deal if i damage it and better to make something when practicing rather than just knocking out these.







blackrodd":3tsjdnub said:


> What a cracking little Gem! Thanks for that. Regards Rodders



Thanks Rodders I am practicing cutting dovetails by hand and made this to try to speed things up a bit . I got the idea from David Barons saw guide which i have to say is a great little tool.






Cheers Bern


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## Glynne (29 Mar 2014)

I've also got a David Barron guide which is really good, although not cheap.
You obviously work a lot quicker than I do but I gave up cutting practice joints as, stating the obvious, all you are left with are one off joints. It was spending a week with Roger Berwick (Dodge) that convinced me to bite the bullet and go straight into projects and just focus on accuracy rather than speed. I'll admit some of my dovetails are less than perfect but it tends only to be me that notices the faults and at least I'm left with a completed project.
Given the quality of your dovetails, I don't think you need to practice!


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## nathandavies (29 Mar 2014)

I think everyone on here would be interested to see your dovetail challenge bern, can you cut and paste from the other site? and i'm allowed to comment on this site.

nathan


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

Glynne":2o5nkdlo said:


> I've also got a David Barron guide which is really good, although not cheap.
> You obviously work a lot quicker than I do but I gave up cutting practice joints as, stating the obvious, all you are left with are one off joints. It was spending a week with Roger Berwick (Dodge) that convinced me to bite the bullet and go straight into projects and just focus on accuracy rather than speed. I'll admit some of my dovetails are less than perfect but it tends only to be me that notices the faults and at least I'm left with a completed project.
> Given the quality of your dovetails, I don't think you need to practice!



Thanks Glynne 
Like you i would usually practice on making something rather than just a joint and in the past this has been the case .The reason for practicing is that i am going to attend the Shwarz class and want to be able to run off dovetails accurately and fast .With over 100 dovetails to cut on the tool chest we will be making i dont want to be beavering away when the cleaners turn the lights out.So i have followed the challage set by Paul Mayon Of The New English Workshop to cut a set of dovetails every day for a week timing yourshelf to see if you can speed up without loosing accuracy .
The first set took 32 minutes and after a week the last set was under 10 minutes .Well worth doing as i feel confident now that i wont show myself up and its helped me to fine tune my technique and tools.
First set




Last set




Tools that produced the best results for me so far.




Cheers Bern


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

nathandavies":2gdg7yf3 said:


> I think everyone on here would be interested to see your dovetail challenge bern, can you cut and paste from the other site? and i'm allowed to comment on this site.
> 
> nathan



Thanks Nathan
I may need some help with moving the post from the other side :roll: I am a numtpy with the laptop and very slow . I will try to ask the mods to see if we can get you on over there as well

CHeers Bern.


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## nathandavies (29 Mar 2014)

Cheers bern

You put some great work over there, I may have to try and get over to your place and see what all the fuss is over the domino system. and your guillotine.

nathan


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## RogerP (29 Mar 2014)

With a metal cutting blade in the bandsaw you can make half-a-dozen different angle brass ones for a tenner 

http://tinyurl.com/ngsgmg3


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

nathandavies":1t2adsjg said:


> Cheers bern
> 
> You put some great work over there, I may have to try and get over to your place and see what all the fuss is over the domino system. and your guillotine.
> 
> nathan


Your welcome any time Nathan and i have put a request out to the mods for you on the other side.Still getting to grips with the dom not getting perfect results just yet your welcome to have a ply with it when you call in .

Cheers Bern


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

RogerP":n3pzid5u said:


> With a metal cutting blade in the bandsaw you can make half-a-dozen different angle brass ones for a tenner
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/ngsgmg3


Thanks Roger i think i will have a go at that . Havent got a metal cutting blade but have got some old blunt blades that may do it .

Cheers Bern


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## RogerP (29 Mar 2014)

Berncarpenter":2q7lrp4d said:


> RogerP":2q7lrp4d said:
> 
> 
> > With a metal cutting blade in the bandsaw you can make half-a-dozen different angle brass ones for a tenner
> ...


... Ian at http://www.tuffsaws.co.uk will supply a metal cutting blade. They're not cheap but very handy to have one in the workshop for lots of jobs.


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

RogerP":30kw1fzv said:


> Berncarpenter":30kw1fzv said:
> 
> 
> > RogerP":30kw1fzv said:
> ...




Thanks for the link Roger i havent used this company before but from what i have read on the forums they are good 

Cheers Bern


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

Berncarpenter":3o5h34cm said:


> RogerP":3o5h34cm said:
> 
> 
> > With a metal cutting blade in the bandsaw you can make half-a-dozen different angle brass ones for a tenner
> ...


Roger just came across this while looking for ideas, it seems to make a brass template will take me a little longer than a timber one .

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... brass.html

I hope this link works still a bit green with the computer.

Cheers Bern


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## RogerP (29 Mar 2014)

Good grief he does faff about! 

I'm sure I could make them in less than 5 minutes each on the bandsaw and bench belt sander.


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## DTR (29 Mar 2014)

A dovetailed dovetail marker... classy 8)


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## Peter Sefton (29 Mar 2014)

Very Nice :!:


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## Berncarpenter (29 Mar 2014)

Peter Sefton":2w8pu1r5 said:


> Very Nice :!:





DTR":2w8pu1r5 said:


> A dovetailed dovetail marker... classy 8)



Thanks Peter & Dave
Started making a spearpoint marking knife this afternoon out of an old chisel that i picked up for 50p . Just got to upload the photos and i will stick it on here.

Cheers Bern


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## Glynne (30 Mar 2014)

I had a look at your photobucket and your work is really impressive.
I noticed you had a Knew Concepts saw and I struggled a little with mine for a while until I contacted Matthew of Workshop Heaven. Admittedly I was working with very hard and brittle unsteamed pear but the 9R Skip Reverse blade he recommended was brilliant and I could cut right up to the knife line with ease and have no breakout on the back side. Not sure what blades you use but for a couple of pounds, it might be worth a try given the number of dovetails you are going to be cutting in the near future.
Hope you can post some pictures of your Shwarz Class - I did have a think about it when it was first advertised as I'm in commuting distance from but I'm afraid I need to up my skill levels (a lot) before I would undertake something like that.
Glynne


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## Berncarpenter (31 Mar 2014)

Glynne":1ehz2ew2 said:


> I had a look at your photobucket and your work is really impressive.
> I noticed you had a Knew Concepts saw and I struggled a little with mine for a while until I contacted Matthew of Workshop Heaven. Admittedly I was working with very hard and brittle unsteamed pear but the 9R Skip Reverse blade he recommended was brilliant and I could cut right up to the knife line with ease and have no breakout on the back side. Not sure what blades you use but for a couple of pounds, it might be worth a try given the number of dovetails you are going to be cutting in the near future.
> Hope you can post some pictures of your Shwarz Class - I did have a think about it when it was first advertised as I'm in commuting distance from but I'm afraid I need to up my skill levels (a lot) before I would undertake something like that.
> Glynne



Thanks for the comment on my work Glynne.
I have some fine blade for the Knew saw and found that for softwood they are not aggressive enough to make really fast cuts that are needed for the dovetail challenge . They are fine for hardwood and especially when using a very fine kerf jap saw. Not sure what skip they are but thanks for the tip i will give those 9R blades a try.I will try and post some of what goes on in the Schwarz class .Not sure if i will have time to stop and take photos as the coarse sounds pretty intense , also i will have to ask if photos are allowed. 
Sorry for the slow response i have been out car booting and have been out all day.
Cheers Bern


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## morfa (2 Apr 2014)

Bern - I think these are the ones:

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Peg ... _Wood.html

I've got a pack and they're nice. But I don't get on well with my kreg to be honest. Blades break so easily. Dunno if that's just a fact of how they work, or it's just me. 

I reckon Schwartzy will be fine with you taking photos. He certainly puts loads up on his blog. Also I think you'll be definitely in the top of the class. Those dovetails you were doing in under 9 minutes looked nice. I reckon you'll be able to get faster as well.


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## kernowjoiner24 (2 Apr 2014)

That's a nice little tool ! And good work on all those dovetails, The last set look even neater than the first !


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## Berncarpenter (2 Apr 2014)

Thanks for the WH link Morfa i will try a few different packs of blades .I little tip for you if you are breaking allot of blades , make sure you fit the blade with the teeth facing you . The blade is then pulled straight and tight when its cutting and so less likely to break. Think of it like a peace of string pull it and it straightens , push it and it bends. If you have the same blades as in the link the teeth are facing both ways from the outside of the saw into the middle , this could be your problem .

Dont know about being at the top of the class , i will be happy if i can just keep up with everyone else and not make a tit of myself.
I am looking forward to it and will be hoovering up as many tips and tricks as i can .



kernowjoiner24":33l3dn0o said:


> That's a nice little tool ! And good work on all those dovetails, The last set look even neater than the first !



Thanks i was pleased with the way it turned out . Practice i have found to be very helpful especially with time taken and it doesnt take that long before you get the hang of it once you find the tools that work for you.

Cheers Bern


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## Johnandp (6 Apr 2014)

Lovely little tool! I've been looking at david Barron's guide for a little while but I'm not so keen since he's gone to ally. I know they are probably more accurate but there is nothing like wooden tools!
I reckon you could sell them! Put me down for one if you consider it! ;-)
Regards
John


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## Berncarpenter (6 Apr 2014)

Johnandp":2eo8nnm1 said:


> Lovely little tool! I've been looking at david Barron's guide for a little while but I'm not so keen since he's gone to ally. I know they are probably more accurate but there is nothing like wooden tools!
> I reckon you could sell them! Put me down for one if you consider it! ;-)
> Regards
> John



Hi John
Thanks for the kind words. No plans on making these to sell just thought i would share with forum members.

Cheers Bern


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## Berncarpenter (16 Apr 2014)

http://tinyurl.com/ngsgmg3[/quote]

Roger Picked up some ali angle from the car boot for 50p and knocked out a template tonight.







Cut on my old chop saw with a triple chip blade and some timber backing






The saw isnt very accurate so had to file square and then cleaned up with 240 grit paper on a granite slab





















At the Yandles show on Saturday had a chat with David Barron , showed him the timber template and asked him if he would be ok with me selling these . He said as long as i dont set up a stall next to him at shows thats fine . So i may consider making some to sell if i get enough interest in them now i know i wont upset anyone .

Cheers Bern


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## Jacob (16 Apr 2014)

Traditionally most DTs were done freehand. It's very easy you don't need a template. If you do want to set them out more precisely a sliding bevel will do it - and you aren't stuck with arbitrary angles.


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## DTR (16 Apr 2014)

Jacob":3h9g981a said:


> Traditionally most DTs were done freehand. It's very easy you don't need a template. If you do want to set them out more precisely a sliding bevel will do it - and you aren't stuck with arbitrary angles.



Having a guide doesn't mean you have to stick to that angle, and my guide (made from an offcut and took a few minutes to make) is a lot more convenient than using a sliding bevel


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## Berncarpenter (16 Apr 2014)

Jacob":rzu4nuhd said:


> Traditionally most DTs were done freehand. It's very easy you don't need a template. If you do want to set them out more precisely a sliding bevel will do it - and you aren't stuck with arbitrary angles.



Hi Jacob
I can cut the tails without marking and have managed with a lot of practice to get them square across the top but find getting the angles to match up a problem. Right hand side seems fine but the left is just a little out .I must admit that that sawing without following a line is quite liberating but the results arent that good yet. Marking with a sliding bevel i find to be a fiddle and if the template is the same size as the tail its really quick.





Using the template makes for a more uniform and good looking joint.





Cheers Bern


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## Jacob (16 Apr 2014)

Easiest to do are the thin single kerf ones (sometimes called "London pattern" for no obvious reason).
The second cut starts in the kerf of the first cut. Only for half blind ones (drawer fronts etc) as they don't work so well through and are a bit weak for boxes
After a bit they all come out near enough the same and a bit of irregularity doesn't really matter - it's hand made innit!


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