# Oak Furniture Land - how's this for hype ?



## RogerS (18 Sep 2016)

Came across this little snippet at the bottom of this page.

_Why buy from expensive department stores or overpriced websites when our furniture is guaranteed to be superior in quality at a fraction of the price, go on give us a try!_

Really? "Guaranteed ...". Evidence, please, OFL ?

It then goes on to say ...

_All our drawers have dovetail joints, all drawer bases and backs are made with 100% solid hardwood with only the finest cuts of timber used in all our furniture._

but what they omit to tell you is that the hardwood comes in wee little blocks everywhere glued together. Even the top.


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## MattRoberts (18 Sep 2016)

Funny - I noticed in their advert the drawers used finger joints (it made me think of the box joint jig thread)


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## No skills (18 Sep 2016)

As someone here once said "solid offcuts"


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## RobinBHM (18 Sep 2016)

I like their strap line, 'no veneer in 'ere'......

True, but pallets also match that description


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## Eric The Viking (18 Sep 2016)

There's two sides to this:


They're selling tat. They're ripping off a gullible public, persuading them that you can get some things (quality and craftsmanship) for almost nothing. The wood is horrible and should be burned instead.

They're expert recyclers. Offcuts, from things like flooring and better-quality furniture construction, needn't go into the furnace, but can be reused as practical boards. Their cheaper methods mean, too, that people can afford solid wood furniture who otherwise couldn't - "upper-crust Ikea" if you will.

I can't see how you can reconcile the two views. I also can see other dichotomies, for example that they encourage/discourage people to go to real makers when they can eventually afford to do so.

The other thing is their actual board-construction technique: how different, if at all, is it from manufacturing Glulam structural timbers? Obviously Glulam is softwood, but it is quality-selected, supposedly stronger than solid timber, and extensively used for shapes and designs where nothing else would do (in architecture, obviously). And then we're well used to kitchen worktops made of staves...

Personally, I can't stand the look of the Oak Furnitureland stuff, but that's the aesthetics of the designs far more than the materials. On the rest I can't make up my mind either way, but in a world of limited and increasingly scarce resources, they are probably at the leading edge of how things will be in the future. 

Thin kerf blades are going to become really popular, I fear...

E.

PS: I have never darkened the doorway of any of their showrooms, but I'd be interested to know if they take wood movement into account in their designs, or try to ignore it. It all seems to use thick boards wherever possible. Is there any proper frame+panel construction, or is that irrelevant because of the way they use the raw materials? 

The top in the picture Roger posted looks as though it has breadboarded ends. The PC I'm using now sits on a drop-leaf table with breadboarded leaves, from the 1930s or 1940s. Cental heating hasn't been kind to it.


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## transatlantic (18 Sep 2016)

hmmmm.

I was actually thinking about buying my new dining table and chairs from oak furniture land. I really liked the one they had on display (it was the Rustic range). I also took a peak at some of the other furniture and can't say I noticed the block thing, but I wasn't really looking for it. Will have to go take another look.

I hope they don't show display models that aren't representative of what they'll actually send you.

But at the same time, if it's in a draw like that which isn't on display the whole time, is it really a problem? If they do it with surface pieces then that's another story.

But yeah - the stuff they sell is right up my street. Big, chunky, solid, rustic looking, and great finishes. Oh and I love Oak.

It would be interesting if one of the more experienced members here (custard?) could give a rough estimate of what he thinks the materials would be alone and compare it to the price they are charging. Obviously there are all the other costs too, and their timber import prices are of course way cheaper than ours. But just out of curiosity.

Shall we say the 'Original Rustic Solid Oak 3ft 7" Bench'. Should be able to get a very rough idea of materials from the image.

http://www.oakfurnitureland.co.uk/furni ... /5549.html


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Sep 2016)

Eric The Viking":13gz6dva said:


> There's two sides to this:
> 
> 
> They're selling tat. They're ripping off a gullible public, persuading them that you can get some things (quality and craftsmanship) for almost nothing. The wood is horrible and should be burned instead.
> ...


May or may not be OFL, of course.  
cupboard-door-expands-but-no-fault-showing-how-t100224.html


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## deema (18 Sep 2016)

A chap who started importing furniture from China from his bedroom I understand selling it on eBay. He's been loyal to those manufactures that started with him I believe and they still supply him. 

Personally I think it's good to get people interested and buying 'brown furniture' again and anything that encourages people to love real wood has to be a good thing. I would have thought that most people as they become more affluent want something that is a more unique than the mass marketed stuff which can only encourage the popularity for hand made bespoke oak furniture and other stuff. 

Gets a big thumbs up from me.


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## Droogs (18 Sep 2016)

What annoys me is the implication, by design, in their advetising that veneering material and methods used in high end furniture making are the same as the carp used on Ikea's chipboard monstrosities and the like. It all leads to a persistent perception by the great unwashed as it were the craftsmanship and an individuals skilled labour and time have no value. 
As I'm sure the proffesional makers here will attest, people see their wares and go "wow, great design and hand made. That's skillfully done" But as soon as they discover the price, for the most part they'll say "But I can get it at Ikea/Habitat/OFL for less than half that" being ignorant of the the difference and materiel and construction methods. It is a definate sign that consumerism is still very much the vogue.


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## transatlantic (18 Sep 2016)

Droogs":2ekczqiq said:


> What annoys me is the implication, by design, in their advetising that veneering material and methods used in high end furniture making are the same as the carp used on Ikea's chipboard monstrosities and the like. It all leads to a persistent perception by the great unwashed as it were the craftsmanship and an individuals skilled labour and time have no value.
> As I'm sure the proffesional makers here will attest, people see their wares and go "wow, great design and hand made. That's skillfully done" But as soon as they discover the price, for the most part they'll say "But I can get it at Ikea/Habitat/OFL for less than half that" being ignorant of the the difference and materiel and construction methods. It is a definate sign that consumerism is still very much the vogue.



I disagree. I think the average person knows thoroughly well that what they purchase at the cheaper stores will have a lower build quality. Lots of people don't care for something that is solid hardwood or will last a lifetime. Fashions change around the clock, so if you know you're likely to change it and the cheaper alternative does the job (which in most cases it does), it makes sense to get the cheaper stuff.

So yes, it might be a false economy, but it can still make sense. It's just another side of the throw away society that we sadly live in.


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## custard (18 Sep 2016)

transatlantic":cr562k2s said:


> what he thinks the materials would be alone and compare it to the price they are charging



I'd struggle to buy the solid timber for the price they sell the finished article, certainly when they're running their sales. 

I bought a leather sofa from Oak Furniture Land, I wanted a beat up brown leather sofa to go in the kitchen and they had just the thing. I can't tell it apart (at least after a few drinks) from the heavy horse hide sofas you'd find in 1930's clubs, officer's messes, and school common rooms. I'm delighted with it.

What however makes me shudder is the way they assemble their wooden furniture from randomly selected boards. Some of the grain clashes are stupendously jarring.






Look at the door panel on the left. Look at the bottom rail on the central door. Look at almost any part of it! And this is an example that they're particularly proud of, so much so it's featured in their web site catalogue.

A hobbyist furniture maker, who applied themselves for a year or two to learn the basics, and then went down to a decent timber yard where they could select sequential boards from the same log, could make something far more harmonious. Something that would age beautifully, that would be restful to live with, and that would delight the eye on a daily basis.

Incidentally, I don't think that I or any other small bespoke furniture maker really competes with Oak Furniture Land, IMO we compete more with say Heals. I often say to clients, I'll make you something for the same price or only a little bit more than you'd pay in Heals, but something that's better made, from better timbers, where you've helped shape every design detail, and that's scaled to exactly fit the spaces in your home.


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## Karl (18 Sep 2016)

My parents bought a few pieces from OFL. Few days after delivery, they noticed a few little piles of sawdust under the furniture. Woodworm. It was promptly placed outside and a call made to OFL. New pieces were promptly delivered, at which point they were told by the delivery guy that "approx 10% of their furniture suffers from "....

I regularly get enquiries from people asking for something similar to what they have seen in OFL (or other shop) to be made "bespoke" - and then bleating when I give them the price .


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## NazNomad (18 Sep 2016)

How can 'solid' oak be 15% glue? :-D


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## Eric The Viking (18 Sep 2016)

From the OFL web site:



> "About Us": _Instead of buying from expensive wholesalers, who take a lump of profit, we design all our products ourselves and manufacture via exclusive contracts with overseas suppliers._
> 
> "FAQ": _*Is your furniture really 100% solid hardwood?*
> All of our cabinet furniture is made from 100% solid hardwood from top to toe; veneer, plywood and chipboard are never used. All drawers are made with dovetail joints for added durability. Each drawer and cabinet back are made from solid hardwood; there is no skimping on any part of the furniture. As our adverts say - There's no veneer in 'ere. The timbers used have been kiln dried using state of the art technology which ensures minimal movement and means, if looked after correctly, your furniture will last for years to come.
> ...


I'm intrigued: doesn't kiln drying kill woodworm? And if it does, how/when are the little beasties getting into the wood?

E.

PS: https://www.google.co.uk/search?&q=oak+furniture+land+woodworm


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## RogerS (18 Sep 2016)

transatlantic":1bjppanf said:


> hmmmm.
> 
> I was actually thinking about buying my new dining table and chairs from oak furniture land. I really liked the one they had on display (it was the Rustic range). I also took a peak at some of the other furniture and can't say I noticed the block thing, but I wasn't really looking for it. Will have to go take another look.
> 
> ....l



If you look closely at the top in the photo you'll see that even the top is made up of thinner pieces glued together.


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## Woodmonkey (18 Sep 2016)

I was approached by someone a year or two ago who wanted an oak dining table similar to something he'd seen in OFL but slightly different dimensions to fit his kitchen. As custard says, i priced up the timber and it came to quite a bit more than they were selling the finished article for.


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## NickN (18 Sep 2016)

"Every step of the way, costs are kept to a minimum"

Hmm. You get what you pay for in life.


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## CHJ (18 Sep 2016)

Eric The Viking":2rnktc70 said:


> .....The top in the picture Roger posted looks as though it has breadboarded ends. The PC I'm using now sits on a drop-leaf table with breadboarded leaves, from the 1930s or 1940s. Cental heating hasn't been kind to it.



I suspect the 'constructed' timber used for their breadboard end could well be more stable than a prime piece of timber.

Wood Block Worktops are easily accepted as manufactured to provide better stability than individual planks, as is furniture with MDF, Ply or block cores with a veneer. If folks are happy to accept the physical appearance who's to say it is not as good as recycled wood chippings tarted up with a machine cut veneer with a man made presentation of the wood figuring as opposed to its natural appearance.


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## transatlantic (18 Sep 2016)

RogerS":25vdlx3m said:


> transatlantic":25vdlx3m said:
> 
> 
> > hmmmm.
> ...



True - I hadn't noticed it though on the table I was looking at, but as I say, i wasn't really looking for it. I don't think it would bother me though, I still really liked it. Perhaps it would bother me in the future when I became more experienced


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## AndyT (18 Sep 2016)

What an interesting and thoughtful discussion.
Like Eric, I see the two sides of the picture and struggle to reconcile them.

But what tips it to one side for me is that emotionally I want furniture to be long lasting, passed down to the next generation, (especially if it's something I made.)

OFL, and other budget retailers are promoting the idea that furniture can be so cheap that it's disposable without a thought for the wider environmental or economic consequences, and that's what irks me.


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## CHJ (18 Sep 2016)

AndyT":1y71a3pk said:


> ..But what tips it to one side for me is that emotionally I want furniture to be long lasting, passed down to the next generation, (especially if it's something I made.)...



But if you look a high proportion of 'good presentation wise' furniture in large historic houses you will see many examples of superb appearance that still have a basic material core. Not all high society households could afford the high end craftsmanship though-out versions .
If you come down a notch to the everyday vernacular stuff on display in period buildings several hundred years old the majority, although soundly constructed are only faced with the prime cabinet work.

I think longevity comes with the soundness of construction methods and fitness for use of the materials.
I suppose only time will tell if modern adhesives and cycling through various 'pass me down' scenarios of this constructed stuff will stand the test.


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## custard (18 Sep 2016)

An American woodworker spent several years photographing hundreds of antique dovetails and posted the results as a "dovetail compendium". 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mark_firl ... 404664767/

Having been around the UK antique market for many years I can't say British dovetails any different. In other words a few are exquisite, most are mediocre, and some are comically rough. 

It didn't prevent these pieces from surviving for hundreds of years, and I suspect that a different design ethic prevailed in times past, where jointing wasn't particularly meant to be seen or commented upon, and so makers adopted a more utilitarian approach on everything apart from the major show components.

I'm currently digging through old cabinet maker's "books of prices", where the build times and prices for various items of furniture in the pre-industrial era were set down and agreed between journeymen furniture makers and the workshops that employed them. The blistering speed with which furniture was made in the 18th century takes your breath away.

But what all these old boys had, that OFL has evidently forgotten, is a sense of grace about their furniture. Effort was always taken to place boards where they would sit harmoniously, care was exercised to match grain as far as was possible. So even when they were chasing the clock they still evidently thought that worthwhile.


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## rob. (18 Sep 2016)

No veneer in er, Id rather spend the extra and get some nice furniture with veneer on it. Antiques for me are the way to go, pieces that have stood for hundreds of years, most of their lives in damp conditions cant really be faulted.


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## lurker (18 Sep 2016)

They are clever marketeers.
Folks want new these days and they want it cheap
And replaceable in a few years when the next fad comes along.
OFL will not exist in a few years and are making hay whilst the sun shines.

I walked around and what hit me was the appalling proportions of their designs not the quality of the materials.

When I got married 40 years ago all our furniture was what our older relatives were throwing out and we were really glad of it.
If I offered our decent but used stuff to my nephews and nieces they would be highly offended.


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## rob. (18 Sep 2016)

lurker":3g0ijmn8 said:


> They are clever marketeers.
> Folks want new these days and they want it cheap
> And replaceable in a few years when the next fad comes along.
> OFL will not exist in a few years and are making hay whilst the sun shines.
> ...




I couldn't agree more, it seems some furniture designers these days don't understand the same aspects of designing furniture that people of yesteryear did.
I have six kitchen chairs round my dining table, they date from early Georgian right through to present day. It seems Georgian chairs , at least Georgian country chairs had largish seats, then they got smaller throughout the years until the present day when they got bigger again, except the present day kitchen chair that I've got is bigger in every way, everything is scaled up. You would think in this day and age with the way we are raping our environment we should be taking a leaf out of furniture makers from years ago who knew the value of wood, unless they just had smaller bums way back in the day?


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## thetyreman (18 Sep 2016)

the oak VENEER on my parents coffee table bought from OFL is now peeling off several years later...they aren't built to last. Now I almost feel confident enough to build a new one, but from solid air dried oak with real joinery.


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## RogerS (18 Sep 2016)

thetyreman":i5l6b0g4 said:


> the oak VENEER on my parents coffee table bought from OFL is now peeling off several years later...they aren't built to last. Now I almost feel confident enough to build a new one, but from solid air dried oak with real joinery.




There is NOTHING wrong with veneering. When done properly. All the real cabinetmakers in the past used veneer extensively.


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## monkeybiter (18 Sep 2016)

rob.":1enztrva said:


> No veneer in er, Id rather spend the extra and get some nice furniture with veneer on it. Antiques for me are the way to go, pieces that have stood for hundreds of years, most of their lives in damp conditions cant really be faulted.



The only furniture we've bought in the last few years [because we've got everything we need] are some oldish bits of brown furniture that we've seen in a local Barnardo's for silly small amounts [~£6 !] that we like so much we have to find a home for it!


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## LancsRick (18 Sep 2016)

Throwing my 2p into the ring...

- They're recycling leftovers, that's brilliant, and if they can make a business out of it, good for them
- In terms of design, I'm not sure that's fair criticism as it's totally visible to the purchaser - either people like the designs and they buy them, or they don't. There's no deception in that to my mind.

- The manufacturing technique is where they make their money and make the most of people's ignorance. Clearly solid wood is more durable than synthetic/semi-hollow stuff from IKEA, so let's buy solid wood guys! Solid wood doesn't expand or distort, so all solid wood is equal, it'll be fine...


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## wills-mill (19 Sep 2016)

Well, they're sort of recycling leftovers....

It's not my side of the timber trade, but I've heard that most of the laminated Oak furniture out there is made from lower grade European logs that are rammed into shipping containers, then go for a trip to China and back. There are huge amounts of empty shipping containers that need to head east, so if a bargain basement material can be found to fill them, everyone's happy. It sounds like madness but it must have logistical and financial soundness.
The milling, drying and furniture construction is done across Asia with European Oak, then it heads back. There is definitely some grain selection going on- I've certainly looked at some furniture where the knottier sections are on show up front and the prime, boring, straight grained stuff is tucked around at the back and side. On some Pine furniture (probably Mexican), I've even spotted extra knottiness being added with the help of a Forstner drill and sections of dowel glued in to show end grain.

--------------
Oak for internal use has definitely headed the way of softwoods- in that many of the firms who use a lot of it in this country now buy it in as a ready machined and laminated commodity. The long stave laminate boards look relatively pricey, until you add up the hours, kit and space needed to machine, glue up and sand something to the same level of usability. Presumably the OFL type short stave material is available if you ask around.

http://www.gaimports.co.uk/oak-panels/
http://catalogue.chilterntimber.co.uk/p ... 00625.html
http://www.slhardwoods.co.uk/products/s ... ure-panels


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## Jelly (19 Sep 2016)

lurker":2c9lus43 said:


> When I got married 40 years ago all our furniture was what our older relatives were throwing out and we were really glad of it.
> If I offered our decent but used stuff to my nephews and nieces they would be highly offended.



I'm in my mid 20's, guess I'm part of the middle class "affluent young professional" cohort too, though it irks me to admit it... Most of my furniture is heirlooms that my parents, aunts, uncles grandparents and great grandparents had no room for, but didn't want to let go of, mostly vernacular pieces, and a couple of really nice 17th Century bits; wouldn't trade it for the world.
The funny thing is I have friends come round who really love their interior design etc. And they go nuts for it, but when I say that they'll have to go scouring the antique dealers for it, they balk at the idea, then go pay twice as much for a bit of that from IKEA.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2016)

Delighted to say that OFL have now removed the egregious misleading statement, that I mentioned in the OP, from their website.


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2016)

I like IKEA, great designs, Oak furniture land is horrible.


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## Racers (20 Sep 2016)

RogerS":34gqreiy said:


> Delighted to say that OFL have now removed the egregious misleading statement, that I mentioned in the OP, from their website.



But they say...

"All our drawers have dovetail joints, all drawer bases and backs are made with 100% solid hardwood with only the finest cuts of timber used in all our furniture"

Finest cuts?

Pete


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## Woodchips2 (20 Sep 2016)

Racers":1f21fxte said:


> RogerS":1f21fxte said:
> 
> 
> > Delighted to say that OFL have now removed the egregious misleading statement, that I mentioned in the OP, from their website.
> ...


It's just that you don't expect to have 10,000 finest cuts in your piece of furniture (hammer) 
Regards Keith


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## No skills (20 Sep 2016)

Racers":hlnod0q7 said:


> "only the finest cuts of timber used in all our furniture"
> 
> Pete




All the finest cuts of timber were used in all of THEIR furniture, WE get the bits that were left over


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## Jake (20 Sep 2016)

Finest as in smallest.


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## transatlantic (21 Sep 2016)

I really think you guys are being unrealistic and mostly just being picky.


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## Racers (21 Sep 2016)

Just give the stuff a few years of seasonal changes and see if it pulls itself apart.

Pete


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## John15 (21 Sep 2016)

Finest offcuts maybe

John


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## RogerS (21 Sep 2016)

transatlantic":2hjuw83r said:


> I really think you guys are being unrealistic and mostly just being picky.



I'm assuming that you were being ironic.

The stuff is hideously designed and hideously made.

But it is cheap. 'Cheap' as in every connotation of the word.


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## Terry - Somerset (21 Sep 2016)

For Mr and Mrs average "don't know much about wood" it is re-writing craftsmanship.

It makes a solid sound if you tap it. It is heavy. It is demonstrably real wood (albeit lots of small pieces of). And in the UK, at least, oak is possibly perceived by many as the "king" of woods. They are cheap and clearly differentiated from Ikea. What's not to like?

It is only the inhabitants of this forum + those with a lot of spare dosh + a few with taste but no money who can generally appreciate or buy real skill and craftsmanship. The real risk is that in years to come people will aspire to OFL, not realising that it is crudely constructed from poor quality materials with a poor level of finish. 

But it would be wrong to be wholly dismissive - it fills a market niche for those who like the chunky country look on a limited budget.


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## RogerS (20 Oct 2016)

At last....the ASA has upheld a complaint about the 'No veneer in 'ere' TV advert and told them to stop. Result !!!!

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/1 ... is_banned/


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## Eric The Viking (20 Oct 2016)

When they say "solid hardwood" they're presumably only including the bits around the woodworm holes...
... They are a few "munchie" tales of woe to be read after judicious Googling.

I have a new slogan, "No Oak Furniture Land objects in 'ere!" However rude one wants to be about Ikea stuff, at least it doesn't come with its own tenants.


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## lee celtic (20 Oct 2016)

I work for a mid budget furniture manufacturer, we make bedroom furniture out of coated chip and MDF board for many high street shops and even more internet based companies and I can say having been a self employed maker and working in mass production.

You get what you pay for.. 

However...

If you are getting what you paid for..ie. paid cheap got cheap.. paid a lot got a lot.. then it's all good. 

What gets me is when people pay a lot for rubbish.. I've been working with this company for 8 years and in that time I've seen the turnover go up 4 fold and would say the life span of an item in normal use is around 5 years.. but I've also seen repeat purchases after 2 (mainly for colour change) and seen items over ten years old still looking good. These days it is all about the look, old school pine goes to high gloss shine then back again. My own taste is for thick heavy traditional furniture and as such all my stuff is solid pitch pine reclaimed from old buildings. My dining table was a couple of roof beams from a local chapel. But not everyone can build it themselves and these days very few can afford custom made.. 

There have always been tiers in purchasing furniture, I remember Gillows selling really expensive stuff and MFI at the other end.. 

After a behind the scenes tour at a stately home a National trust restorer showed me that Chippendale never polished or coated anything you couldn't see, inside draws, under rails were all left as bare timber. Many items were made of pine with Mahogany Veneer added (though it was hand cut thick stuff) Then you move to Utility furniture that had the thinnest veneer ever over pine cores to make the most of post war supplies... 

I think it's harsh to judge any company for supplying what people want to buy. 

On the other hand miss representing what you are selling to make people want to buy it is wrong.

I wouldn't buy from OFL because the adverts do my head in... but I like the meatballs at Ikea.


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## tomatwark (20 Oct 2016)

We make solid wood furniture now and then, but most of the stuff we make is usually a combination of manufactured board and solid wood.

I have always thought that OFL is sailing around the edges of the trade descriptions act with they way the describe the make up of their stuff.

I am always straight with my customers and have never had problem.

As I point out to customers if the likes of Chippendale had access to the range of manufactured boards we have today they would have used them, but instead used Pine as their Ply, MDF and Chipboard.


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## Wizard9999 (21 Oct 2016)

I see "100% solid hardwood" has been replaced with "100% real hardwood" as an overarching slogan. Individual ranges refer to "solid hardwood" but omit the "100%" and the dining tables refer to "realhardwood" so I guess they are the only pieces using the "oak wrap". Sneaky, but now probably acceptable to the ASA I guess. The word veneer doesn't seem to feature anywhere on their site.

Terry.


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## Eric The Viking (21 Oct 2016)

I've had dealings with the ASA, over adverts trying to dupe older people into buying stupidly-expensive electric heaters, claiming they somehow saved them money. They agreed with me, just, but didn't do much more than wave a finger at the company concerned.

The ASA can't see a hair without trying to split it.

And yet one of this morning's big stories is about protecting gamblers from online casino-type companies. Not the ASA, admittedly, but even so.


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## RobinBHM (21 Oct 2016)

Mcdonalds always make me laugh with their 'made from 100% pure beef'. 

I suppose furniture land could say 'made from 100% pure hardwood' -just add some oak wrap, glue, pallet wood etc etc.

I actually dont have a problem with oak furniture land. It uses a lot of the tree up and ok its not the best timber selection, with lots of sap, worm holes, knots etc, but nevertheless the prices are on a par with quality pine furniture that was in fashion 20 years ago and it offers furniture constructed in solid oak at a price point that is affordable to the average punter. 

An oak furniture land sideboard placed in a nicely decorated and well dressed room would look great. in solid timber It should take quite a few knocks. It may be made in a million pieces but that probably means it is more stable, not less. Bes to avoid any with woodworm though!


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## kdampney (21 Oct 2016)

The thing I don't get is why nearly all oak furniture makers use the same oval drawer-pulls, which (to my fingers) feel cheap and sharp-edged?

Examples:
Top Funiture - Sideboard






OFL - Sideboard





Oak Furniture King - Console Table





Mercers Furniture - Bedside Cabinet





Are they a particular 'French rustic' style, or just the cheapest? Or is all the furniture from the same supplier?


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## Eric The Viking (21 Oct 2016)

I think OFL say on their web site somewhere that they source finished products from abroad. So, presumably it's all from the same supplier - not unlikely.

We bought a bedroom suite from Laura Ashley about three years ago. It had the manufacturer's name and stickers on it, so I looked them up, only to find the range they did for LA proudly displayed on their web site, along with other ranges for other big department store names. I think they were Latvian (or Lithuanian - can't remember exactly), and the furniture was none the worse for that. TO be fair, It's not great quality, but it is good enough, and very much nicer than the random set of stuff we had previously.

If you think about it, producing the sort of furniture in the posting above, to me almost indistinguishable from OFL's products, in the very high volumes necessary, probably needs a big investment in the production line. It makes a lot of sense that they'll sell to anyone who'll buy in bulk.


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## YorkshireMartin (21 Oct 2016)

Is OFL not the company who import factory seconds/returns from the far east and sell them as new?

Thought I read that somewhere but I may be mistaken.


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## tomatwark (21 Oct 2016)

Rather than buying seconds


I suspect it is more of the case that the buyers from OFL will go to the factory and say how much the want to pay and what quality the will accept for the price and other retailers may well go to the same factory and pay a little more but expect slightly higher quality.

Much like the factory that makes Quansheng planes.


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## Bodgers (24 Oct 2016)

To play devils advocate here.. My mother in law came into some money a while back, and completely decked out her bedroom (wardrobe, bed, drawers, side tables etc.) from this place. She is delighted with the stuff. She has never owned hardwood furniture before, so this a huge step up. Yes, this stuff is made from multiple laminations (with questionable grain matching) but to her it is fine, and she wouldn't notice until you pointed it out. Most people wouldn't. What is important is that it is massively better than flimsy self assembly chip board junk. No issues with warping etc. - presumably because there are so many laminations (!) I am happy because I haven't been asked to make furniture, and she is happy because she has oak. Everyone is happy. 


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## RogerS (25 Oct 2016)

kdampney":2w4fmwlo said:


> The thing I don't get is why nearly all oak furniture makers use the same oval drawer-pulls, which (to my fingers) feel *cheap* and sharp-edged?
> 
> .....



You've answered it in your post ! They are cheap (and nasty).


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## otter (25 Oct 2016)

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Anyone else got an advert for the very same company at the bottom of the page of this thread?


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## bugbear (25 Oct 2016)

And yet nobody (that I know) has a problem with kitchen counter tops being made up (glued up) of smaller pieces.

BugBear


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## RogerS (25 Oct 2016)

bugbear":i7lhrlw4 said:


> And yet nobody (that I know) has a problem with kitchen counter tops being made up (glued up) of smaller pieces.
> 
> BugBear



The counter tops I've seen have much larger pieces than those I can see in the OFL stuff. Also using small pieces of wood to glue together to make drawer fronts is pretty naff IMO and tatty


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## Bodgers (26 Oct 2016)

RogerS":hjspfyng said:


> bugbear":hjspfyng said:
> 
> 
> > And yet nobody (that I know) has a problem with kitchen counter tops being made up (glued up) of smaller pieces.
> ...


In fairness, for the money, it isn't that bad. 

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## RogerS (26 Oct 2016)

Bodgers":35l78qwu said:


> RogerS":35l78qwu said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":35l78qwu said:
> ...



Trouble is it distorts people's perceptions and disavows any concept of aesthetics. People start to think that this is the price that they only need to pay for a piece of furniture regardless as to whether or not it has been glued together from bits of scrap (Oak Furniture Land) or lovingly and skilfully made by a cabinet maker.

Case in point...I had a guy call me up who wanted a new table top from oak for his coffee table. I priced it up (and wasted a lot of timing in doing so) and when I gave him the not-unreasonable price (given that he wanted it in as few pieces as possible) he fell off his chair. When asked what he was expecting to pay ...£20 was the answer".

It's our society that's at fault. People want cheap. They know the cost of everything and the value of SFA.


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Oct 2016)

And if you went to the same guy (I have no idea what he does) and asked him to do a job for you for £20, he would probably call you an silly person. They invariably know very well how to price their own time and work.


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## transatlantic (26 Oct 2016)

Surely you just need to give them a rough estimate (over estimate to be safe?) up front and save yourself a lot of hassle. I'm sure that is easier said than done, but at least it would weed out the people expecting stupidly low prices.


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## RogerS (26 Oct 2016)

transatlantic":1st9rjap said:


> Surely you just need to give them a rough estimate (over estimate to be safe?) up front and save yourself a lot of hassle.* I'm sure that is easier said than done,* but at least it would weed out the people expecting stupidly low prices.



It is. You want to try and meet the customers request as much as possible. So using the least number of boards means first checking to see what you might have in stock (OK...doesn't take that long) then seeing what's available from elsewhere. Probably just one plank. Minimum order cost maybe. Cost that up, anyway. Expensive delivery. Cost that up. Then your time. Cost that up. How does the client want it finished ?

On the other hand you might think to yourself "I don't really want to do this" and so you give a silly price. Then word gets around that you are 'Blimey...don't go to see X he's bloody expensive'.

So yes, it is easier to say than done.


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## JohnPW (26 Oct 2016)

I don't think it's very useful to compare mass manufactured furniture made in a factory with one off custom stuff made by one person. One person is never going to compete with a factory on price.

I suppose it's the size of the pieces of wood, even a “solid" wooden table top is going to be made with several pieces of wood, depending on the size and wood. As already mentioned, it's a way of using up smaller pieces of wood and off cuts. And as long as it's priced appropriately, I don't see anything wrong with it. As for aesthetics, that's a matter of taste, and wood grain is random anyway （natural product!) so having different grain in different areas like in the pic up thread is just the nature of the material.

What I can't stand is veneering, yes I know it takes skill to use it and was used by furniture makers for hundreds of years, but to me it's fakery. 

I went into Homebase once, there's a concession in there (I forget the name) selling fitted bedroom furniture made from chipboard faced with plastic that has fake wood pattern printed on it, and the price is in the thousands! The nature of the material is not made very clear, I think they called it something vague like foiled backed laminate panels or the like. I really feel sorry for people who buy that stuff.


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Oct 2016)

... furniture made from chipboard faced with plastic that has fake wood pattern printed on it ...
That is far, far more dishonest than OFL. (OFL ... it rolls off the tongue easily, doesn't it?  )


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## custard (26 Oct 2016)

transatlantic":kqwqel27 said:


> Surely you just need to give them a rough estimate (over estimate to be safe?) up front and save yourself a lot of hassle. I'm sure that is easier said than done, but at least it would weed out the people expecting stupidly low prices.




+1

I usually do a couple of the big County Shows each year, instead of messing around with Price On Application mystery price tags, I put the price on everything upfront. It saves customers embarrassment and it saves me time. 

Incidentally, it's been my experience that trying to turn a profit on anything that's even remotely available on the high street is just a fool's errand.

This desk/table gets delivered on Monday, £2200. One single board, 50mm thick, waney edge Bubinga top with the most stupendous waterfall ripple grain. Oak legs, scorched and iron stained. If the client can find the same item cheaper then I guarantee to match the price! 

Joking apart, that's a price that yields a modest but reasonable profit. However, taken across a full year, if it wasn't for the fact that my overheads are peanuts then I'd still be little better than minimum wage.


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## DiscoStu (26 Oct 2016)

I think the issue is that OFL is appealing to people because they are getting solid oak furniture at a fair price. I think the issue comes when people want to sell their hand made oak furniture and people compare the prices. I guess a lot of people will be happy with OFL and if they are then is that an issue? Well maybe not as much as we might first fear. I'd imagine that most people buying in OFL are not the sort who would have been buying handmade in the first place, so probably not loosing any sales to OFL. In fact it might even be that people buy from OFL and then think they want better and get something handmade? I'm not sure if OFL is as bad as it might appear. Maybe it also raises the question of quality and people might then seek better quality? Who knows 


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## AndyT (26 Oct 2016)

Just in case anyone still thinks cheap furniture is probably good enough - may I remind you of this post from Mailee? He didn't name the retailer, but the cupboards in question were made in China and had doors (with the wrong hinges) over a drawer that couldn't be pulled out!

chinese-tat-t71652.html


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## Racers (26 Oct 2016)

Even the expensive stuff can be poor quality/badly designed, John Lewis have a dining table where the planks go across the top and the display one is bent like a banana, both ends drooping visually.

Pete


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Oct 2016)

The worst can be where the design and the method of construction are incompatible. I had to fix a chair that broke across the base of the tenons - as the rails were tightly curved and therefore the tenons were short grained. My cousin bought them, so I told him top send the lot back as not fit for their purpose but he said it was a lot of bother - it was only one chair that had broken. I told him they would all break in the same way eventually ... and they all did ... all one hundred and fifty of them. It was 1994, when I bought my first battery drill - I couldn't face the prospect of putting 1,800 5/8" x 6 screws into beech without pilot holes. :shock:  Had the rails been laminated they would probably still be OK.


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## RogerS (26 Oct 2016)

AndyT":3iswx58c said:


> Just in case anyone still thinks cheap furniture is probably good enough - may I remind you of this post from Mailee? He didn't name the retailer, but the cupboards in question were made in China and had doors (with the wrong hinges) over a drawer that couldn't be pulled out!
> 
> chinese-tat-t71652.html




Woodmonkey posted this in that thread...

_He bought the stuff from a well known retailer who doesn't want to respond to his complaint. It was described as 'solid european oak' but the price and manufacturing quality clearly showed it was from India or China. All large components were 'engineered' with no effort to match grain or colour._

Surely it couldn't be ......?


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## YorkshireMartin (29 Oct 2016)

JohnPW":2fa8d1fu said:


> I don't think it's very useful to compare mass manufactured furniture made in a factory with one off custom stuff made by one person. One person is never going to compete with a factory on price.
> 
> I suppose it's the size of the pieces of wood, even a “solid" wooden table top is going to be made with several pieces of wood, depending on the size and wood. As already mentioned, it's a way of using up smaller pieces of wood and off cuts. And as long as it's priced appropriately, I don't see anything wrong with it. As for aesthetics, that's a matter of taste, and wood grain is random anyway （natural product!) so having different grain in different areas like in the pic up thread is just the nature of the material.
> 
> ...



I used to feel that way about veneers too, but I've come to understand they have a place. I'm not talking about a veneer of say, flat sawn oak, but certainly, if someone wants a really fancy wood like birdseye maple, the solid boards really dont exist in the quantity needed. It is fakery of sorts, but if you veneer some birdseye over some flat sawn 22mm boards, it's still maple to a high standard. That was my realisation and it was a bit of a turning point for me personally.

It's all about perception I guess and my approach being new to this industry, is to try to explain to potential customers exactly why they pay what they do. I'm not out to fleece them and I don't have 0% finance sales which end tomorrow. That concession you talked about is typical. Total and utter junk sold at ludicrous prices. Only today, I came across a small boardroom table which on further inspection turned out to be chipboard faced with an oompa lumpa orange beech veneer, almost as if it had been irradiated. Horrible, horrible thing. As I have an "in" at the company, I asked what it had cost. £2,500. Ouch. Double ouch. Same thing in solid beech though, certainly no change out of £5,000 and I think thats the problem. Why would they pay more when they don't need it to be an heirloom piece, or particularly hard wearing. Then theres the availability of such stuff, which can be next day.

If I've learned anything so far, it's that this is a very difficult market indeed and the rewards are not financial in nature.


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## YorkshireMartin (29 Oct 2016)

Racers":3ipacr20 said:


> Even the expensive stuff can be poor quality/badly designed, John Lewis have a dining table where the planks go across the top and the display one is bent like a banana, both ends drooping visually.
> 
> Pete



Perhaps it's just sad that it's still in the showroom? :lol:


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