# Bandsaw box finishing



## pops92 (23 Oct 2016)

Hi
Would welcome any advice on finishing my 2nd ever box. All the information I have found so far are american. Would like some advice from you guy's please. As I am only just starting in this any advice that's steering me in the right direction would be great. :lol:


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## woodpig (23 Oct 2016)

Where's Alex when you need him? :lol: I'm sure he'll be along in a while to tell you how he finishes his lovely bandsaw boxes. :wink:


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## pops92 (23 Oct 2016)

Yeah was hoping he may be around,could have pm,d him but any input appreciated. :wink:


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## marcros (23 Oct 2016)

i think that his method is sanding through the grits and applying multiple coats of truoil


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## pops92 (23 Oct 2016)

You've now got me looking what truoil is so on Google. Interesting reading,thanks for that imput food for thought.


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## sunnybob (24 Oct 2016)

I know its the "american way", but wipe on poly is what I use most of. Its exremely easy, lasts forever, and gives a really good shine.

Buying it ready made is expensive, but you can make your own at a third of the cost.

Sometimes they do come up with good ideas. (lol)


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## pops92 (24 Oct 2016)

Will make a note of this one thanks for your suggestion.


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## pops92 (24 Oct 2016)

Have now spent some time looking at wipe on varnish method. Going to make some up and give it a go.
I have half a tin of Ronseal clear yacht varnish left,anyone know if this polyurethane varnish? Looked all over google but still dont know,only know it can be thinned zas it says on the can.
Anyone know or used it for wipe varnishing?


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## marcros (24 Oct 2016)

What does it suggest cleaning your brush with? If it is white spirit, it is fine for mixing with oil for wipe on. If it says hot soapy water then it is water based and of no use.


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## woodpig (24 Oct 2016)

There's a Tru-oil recipe here:

http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/vi ... ?tid=12156


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## pops92 (24 Oct 2016)

Looked at couple of articles on tru-oil it shows it as very time consuming to get the required result.
Will put that one on the back buner for now and go for the wipe on varnish method and see what result I get.
Thank for the link.


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## sunnybob (24 Oct 2016)

I have had a quick surf that suggests ronseal yacht varnish is a SATIN finish and it may not be suitable. try it on a scrap piece first.
Buy a tin of gloss OIL based polyeurethane (water based does not work, it will curdle when mixed). I use the cheapest one on the shelf and am happy with it.

wipe on is just what it says. No brushes.
A small piece of lint free cloth or even a small piece of sponge dipped in the mix and wiped over the box. No runs, no hairs stuck in the varnish.
I use latex gloves to avoid my fingers getting all stuck together.
Allow a good 24 hours for it to dry before a second coat.


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## pops92 (25 Oct 2016)

Just had a light bulb moment.
!What if! I used a couple of coats of sanding sealant rubbed down,then went onto varnish wipe 50/50 for the ŕest of the build up.
Any reason not to or would it be a waste of time :?: :?:


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## sunnybob (26 Oct 2016)

poly diluted with white spirit IS the sealant. Youre over thinking it.


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## ED65 (26 Oct 2016)

I agree you're overthinking this. Finishing is most definitely one area where the KISS principle should be applied (along with the 6-P rule of course) and it's not helping that there are far too many guides these days that make it much more complicated than it needs to be.

Your spar varnish once thinned about 1/5 to 1/3 will be fairly similar to a better Danish oil type product. So decant some into a jar, thin it some with white spirit, wipe it on, wipe away the excess with a clean cloth and sit back and wonder at how lovely it makes your wood look. Three coats will probably be enough for what you want, but honestly if you don't have a particular finish in mind just one coat can be enough to make the wood look 'finished'.

Safety first, be sure to lay any cloth or paper you use to apply the varnish out flat to dry as bundled up they can start a fire. Or stuff into a jar half-filled with water if you prefer.



pops92":3u48poft said:


> Looked at couple of articles on tru-oil it shows it as very time consuming to get the required result.
> Will put that one on the back buner for now and go for the wipe on varnish method and see what result I get.


I don't think you'll regret that decision. 

Tru Oil is overrated anyway. Ask anyone who used to use it and then moved on to something else, they'll be only too happy to talk your ear off on the subject from what I've seen :lol:


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## marcros (26 Oct 2016)

truoil is just a finish. nothing more, nothing less. It is good stuff inho, but isnt going to work miracles. The customer wont care what finish the box has on- it either works or doesnt. i use truoil in the kitchen. You put on a couple or 3 coats on per day and set it to one side until the next day. On a bandsaw box, it takes a couple of minutes. no clearup, you chuck away the piece of paper towel (carefully!) and wash your hands. With varnishes, it also takes a couple of minutes, but normally smells, dries slower and takes a bit more cleaning up. you need less coats. horses for courses. I wouldnt dare do that in the kitchen though!

i would agree to keep it simple- any one of a number of finishes will do what you need it to. start with what you have. change when you run out and/or if you dont like it for some reason.


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## lurker (26 Oct 2016)

Tung oil & Real turps are not cheap 

I'd do what sunny bob suggests: thin some gloss poly varnish and see how it goes

I maybe be buying some more tung shortly so we can pool a buy?

By the way, are you aware of the fire hazard from drying oil soaked rags??? 

I dont really "do" shiney finishes but have lots of different ones, mainly matt, if you want to trundle up the road and sample.


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## pops92 (28 Oct 2016)

Have now took the plung and working with 50/50 poly and white spirit mixed and ready to go.
Very impressed with this method on the oak box, has now had 6 wipes. Before the last coat used 600 w/dry with a dash of water.
Next step will be to put some flocking in that turned up today,looks pretty straightforward on the video,we shall see.
The redwood pine is still in progress.
Advice and help on this site is priceless.


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## sunnybob (28 Oct 2016)

Flocking is a very good finish. Couple of hints...

Mask off the rest of the box very thoroughly, the paint / glue might drip onto the box and its a pig to remove.
Be generous with the glue, dont spread it thin or you will get bald spots.
Keep the flocking tube AT LEAST a foot away from the box. closer than that and the blast of air from the tube actually blows the flocking off of the box.

I put mine into a big deep plastic storage box. When blowing the flocking onto it, be generous, and turn the box so you blast it from every side. Once youre done, put a lid over it to stop dust settling onto the glue and wait AT LEAST 24 hours for the paint /glue to dry.

Then you can lift the box out and turn it over and shake the loose stuff out. Give it another 24 hours before brushing the rest of the excess out of the box and into the storage container.

Everything left in the storage box can be re used.


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## doubleb (31 Oct 2016)

pops92.........fine job =D> I too have just made my first band saw box from a log. Because I kept half the bark on I used three coats of Barretine boiled linseed oil, first coat 25/75 spirit, second 50/50 and top coat neat. I then polished with beeswax to give it a soft matte sheen. Like you, waiting for the flock kit to arrive so that I can line the drawers.
Did not use special wood like you, just a stump (old Christmas tree base) I was going to split for firewood. Quite pleased with how things went so will now glue up some timber strips and try and make a proper job.......bb


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## Alexam (1 Nov 2016)

pops92, just seen your question on this. The first boxes I made were finished with sanding sealer and mycrocrystaline wax polish http://www.axminster.co.uk/chestnut-mic ... wax-951143. After sanding down through the grades to 320, I applied a coat of sanding sealer, allowed that to dry and then sanded again, but only with softer pressure. A second coat of sealer and then after sanding with 400 grit to get rid of the 'bits' and a couple more coats of the wax polish. I made quite a few boxes like this.

Then I looked at Tru Oil and found that a higher polished finish was easier, although the Tru Oil is rather expensive. I usually get the 3 oz bottles, but dont remove the aluminum seal, just use a tooth pick to make a small hole in the centre, which you can tape when finished before putting the cap on. A few drops go a long way, but sealing it up after each use keeps it going longer. 

After sanding to 320. give a coat of sanding sealer first and allow to dry, then lightly sand again to 400 and use the tru-Oil, Be generious putting the first coat on and allow to dry partly for the first 5-10 mins, then gently rub off wth a lint free cloth. Allow to dry and gently sand with 400, then more Tru Oil with a cloth, rubbing it gently off and allowing to dry. Further coats will improve the final finish and it depends how glossy or satin you want it to look.

Tru-Oil can be used without the sanding sealer and will be absorbed in more depth but take longer to dry out. More coats are used when no sanding sealer has been used, so you need to try it out, perhaps on some wood that you have used for the box.

An essential part of the process and a rule, is to photograph the final job and put the photo on this site.

Malcolm

PS if you or anyone thinks I can help with anything, please PM me and I'll do what I can. If you are near enough, pop in, but call me first. Phone number on my web site.


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## pops92 (12 Nov 2016)

Great information for me Malcom much appreciated I will keep this marked for future reference.
I have my first 2 boxes finished with flocking which surprisingly is very easy to apply. Will put them on here as soon as I get a chance.
Thanks again Malcom.


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## GrahamF (13 Nov 2016)

Alexam":ohfhx612 said:


> After sanding to 320. give a coat of *sanding sealer* first and allow to dry,



Hi Malcolm, I'm still at the beginning of the learning curve, particularly about finishing. I've never used sanding sealer and wonder what effect it has in maybe altering the finishing coats by not allowing them to be absorbed into the wood. On my first attempt at bandsaw box (or should I say the first to get through to finished :wink: ) I used Rustins Danish Oil but not too happy. Any pointers? I've got some spalled oak for my next attempt.

Graham.


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## pops92 (13 Nov 2016)

Nice one Graham, I like the finish. Can you tell me the wood you used please?
Richard


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## sunnybob (13 Nov 2016)

The easiest finish of them all is wipe on poly.
I have also used baby oil, which shines well and has a slight perfume. baby oil MUST NOT be used on any thing that will come in contact with food, although there is a food grade mineral oil available from chemists.
Danish oil looks good, but fades away even quicker than baby oil.
After that, it all gets a bit arcane.


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## Alexam (13 Nov 2016)

Without sealing after sanding, the spalted woods may absorb far too much. I havn't tried oil directly onto spalted wood, but as the spalting is a little like a straw filled with sawdust, it will go straight through. 

When you are going to flock the box drawers, you definately need to seal the inside of the drawers otherwise the glue colour will penetrate to the other side. This also applies to other woods and not just spalted. For an example, red, blue or green flocking glue seeping through to the other side would ruin to box. 

Any comments on applying oil on spalted wood from others would be a benefit.

Malcolm


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## pops92 (13 Nov 2016)

As promised the 2 boxes I have just finished. 
One for you Malcom,how do you finish the inside of the outer case. With these two I have just sand the insides down and polished the inside with wax. Do people flock the inside?


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## GrahamF (13 Nov 2016)

pops92":cu2qd2wu said:


> Nice one Graham, I like the finish. Can you tell me the wood you used please?
> Richard



Sapele and Oak. I like your boxes.


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## GrahamF (13 Nov 2016)

Alexam":139ndmd0 said:


> When you are going to flock the box drawers, you definately need to seal the inside of the drawers otherwise the glue colour will penetrate to the other side. This also applies to other woods and not just spalted. For an example, red, blue or green flocking glue seeping through to the other side would ruin to box. Malcolm



Thanks for that, will have to shop around for sealer. I didn't flock the drawers, used some Fablon type beize I had from a previous job.


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## pops92 (13 Nov 2016)

Understand about the draw finishes, what I'm concerned about is the finish of the inside of the draw holder. How do you finish this once sanded and the back glued on?


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## sunnybob (13 Nov 2016)

Once you do the flocking the first time, you wont bother with stick on again. The difference is amazing.

I cant get the proper glue here for flocking as its flammable and cant be taken on a plane, but I contacted the makers in america and was told to use any thick outdoor metal paint. So I use hammerite gloss. 

I dont seal the wood first and so far I have not had any bleed through of the paint and the flocking is good, so I suspect the glue is not too different to hammerite.
I very carefully mask off the edges and apply the paint thickly, then the flocking, then leave it alone for AT LEAST 24 hours. Then turn it over and gently tap out the excess. Then another 24 hours before using a fine brush to GENTLY get the rest of the rayon out of the drawer.

a tip when applying the paint / glue, dont brush towards the masking tape, you can push the paint up underneath it even if its well stuck down.
Sealer might help here, but I always varnish first (not the area to be flocked) and then when thats dry mask it off.

I leave it a week before actually using the drawer.


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## pops92 (13 Nov 2016)

Yeah got the flocking sorted, nice to know about the hammerite will give that a try when I run out of the adhesive. Still need advice on the inside of the DRAW HOLDER please anyone?

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


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## sunnybob (13 Nov 2016)

I used stick on felt on the inside of the box on my first try because i couldnt get the inside of a circular hole smooth enough. I thought it looked terrible. i wouldnt do it again.
I havent seen any one flock the lower surface successfully. maybe Malcolm has but I havent seen a picture.

I would polish (sand) the surface to about 400 grit and then in my case use wipe on poly. I'm not into complicated finishes because I'm still very new at this woodworking lark and just dont know how to mix them.

I think its a case of judging the final owner of the box. If its a grandchild (I have three, and they all have toothfairy boxes and trinket boxes) then you want hard wearing, and they arent going to notice minor imperfections. if you think your work is good enough to sell or show and you have to impress judges, then the dynamics change and you have to spend more time on everything.
So after all that, my advice is ti stick some felt on it. If you dont like it, take it off and start again. there are no rules here, its whatever you like that counts.


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## Alexam (13 Nov 2016)

I just finish the void that takes the drawer in the same way that the outer box is finished. However, I have seen the inner void flocked and it does look good. Must give it a try sometime, although with the drawer going in and out, that may get damaged and not look too good after a short time. I wouldn't fancy sticking material inside with the difficulty of positioning.
Malcolm


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## pops92 (14 Nov 2016)

Looking at doing one with ply and some kind of hardwood next laminated together the contrast looks good. Anyone made one like this. Was wondering about the ply causing a problem in the finishing process. Will only use the ply for the inner lamination.


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## sunnybob (14 Nov 2016)

mahogany and ply with a Padauk front and purple heart handles, matched pair.





Rosewood and ply with padauk front again;





rosewood, mahogany, iroku in the middle, padauk, maple, and of course... Ply.





Lots more that I wont bore you with. ply works extremely well, some of these boxes are now 2 years and older with no sign of seperation.

The ply takes all finishes that I use in its stride, but all these boxes are finished with home made wipe on poly..


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## GrahamF (14 Nov 2016)

Sunnybob, brilliant work and lovely finish.


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## Alexam (14 Nov 2016)

Excellent work an a lovely finish to them. It sounds like you are building a collection of them and perhaps you will be selling them soon. 

Malcolm


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## sunnybob (14 Nov 2016)

Malcolm, dont worry, you have no competition there.

apart from the winged pair,and 1 commission piece they have all been given to family.
I work at them as and when I want, and point blank refuse to get into a pressure situation of being behind in delivery.

I'm currently struggling with two musical ballerina boxes for my grandchildren. One is laminated, the other is more traditional with maple sides and walnut top and bottom. I really dont like this traditional stuff, its bloody hard work.


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## pops92 (14 Nov 2016)

Really like these boxes Sunnybob the centre one is my favourite. Now after cutting up these mahogany doors I have been give, will be doing a ply plus hardwood laminate box.


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## sunnybob (14 Nov 2016)

You were asking about covering the inside of the box.
This is an early box I made before I started flocking . The pic is over exposed but I didnt bother taking a better one.
You can see the inside does not look good at all. In fact I gave this to my young grandaughter as a tooth fairy box and got a lot of schtik from my son (who is a carpenter shopfitter) over the black stick on.

He is finally admitting he likes the latest boxes, high praise indeed.


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## ED65 (14 Nov 2016)

Super job on those boxes Bob!


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## pops92 (15 Nov 2016)

More advice please.
As I said earlier in the thread I am going to make my next box with ply and mahogany and another, not sure what yet.
Been looking at this thing about fillers for mahogany looks complicated. Surely I don't need to bother with this?
Secondly I want to make the draw fronts of a contrasting wood to the rest of the door. Is it as simple as cutting the end off and replacing with another wood?


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## sunnybob (15 Nov 2016)

You are overthinking it. 
I have used all the woods I mentioned above and never used filler on any of them.

I always sand both sides of each piece to 400 grit although the birch ply is usually perfect as is, just make sure there are no saw edges sticking up. DO NOT USE CONSTRUCTION PLY, ITS rubbish!
Thoroughly brush all dust away before laying out for gluing.
And I use lots and lots of glue. Squeeze out is not an issue because you are going to cut all the way round with the bandsaw.
Over size the pieces by at least 10mm each way to allow you to cut everything clean.
Do a dry assembly run first, lay out all the pieces in the order you want them in, and make sure you have them near the big vice with lots of clamps on hand.

Be VERY generous with the glue, work fast because the ply especially dries fast. I cant remember who, but someone on here sprays with a fine water mist to slow down the drying. I dont, but you need to be hot footing it through the spreading process.
Slam them all together, get them in the big vice. just slightly squeeze, and you get your last chance to align the sides before fully clamping with as much pressure as you can using as many clamps as you can get on there.

Leave it at least 6 hours, over night is best.

Iroku is a pleasing tight grain with a nice dark brown colour. Rosewood is a good looker but I have found some pieces are very oily and need a final sanding just before glue up.

I've just found a supply of american black walnut so that will figure in my next box I think.


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## Alexam (16 Nov 2016)

When I changed the drawer fronts on a box, I simply made a copy of that front in a different wood and used that. In one case, I had a different wood on the back of the box so managed just to swap the front with the back for the same effect.
Malcolm


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## sunnybob (16 Nov 2016)

I forgot to answer that question....
On the yin yang box pictured above I originally wanted black and white, but couldnt get any ebony (silly me, I thought it would be easy) so I went with red and white which is Padauk and Maple. Both drawer fronts are just 3mm thick pieces glued on.
The front of the frame is Beech.
I love Padauk, its a very striking wood and easy to work and finish. I hate Maple, its the most difficult wood to get a smooth finish on.


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## doubleb (21 Nov 2016)

pops92":txiuonkn said:


> Yeah got the flocking sorted, nice to know about the hammerite will give that a try when I run out of the adhesive. Still need advice on the inside of the DRAW HOLDER please anyone?
> 
> Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk


 You Tube.....How to Make a Bandsaw Box (Aurora Design) by the drunken woodworker...very helpful


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## Alexam (24 Nov 2016)

.................................inside of the DRAW HOLDER please anyone? 

???????? Can you explain that?
Malcolm

........ and can you add to your Profile, saying where you are located? It will help you and others.


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## pops92 (24 Nov 2016)

This is the inside of a draw holder Malcolm. Well it's what I call it anyway. :lol:


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## sunnybob (25 Nov 2016)

Clear gloss wipe on poly. Any thing else pulls the eye away from the overall box.

If your drawer fits inside the box due to removing material while making it, put a couple of very small silicone bump pads at the back. The kind you buy in strips to stop cupboard doors banging closed.
1 in the lower corner, and 1 in the upper opposite corner.

Just lay them in and try the fit first before sticking them down. if the drawer then sticks out too far, you can sand the tops of the bump pads till they are the right thickness before sticking them in.


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## pops92 (25 Nov 2016)

Thanks sunnybob nice and simple that the way I like it.


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## Knox-on-Wood (28 Nov 2016)

I dilute danish oil with 25% white spirit.


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## sunnybob (28 Nov 2016)

But the danish oil doesnt last, it fades back to dry after a time.
I made a lazy susan from scrap mahogany pieces and used Danish. looked good for about 8 months but then went completely flat. Its covered with wipe on poly now and has a "wet look" from a distance. 'Er indoors is much better pleased now.


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## pops92 (22 Dec 2016)

I have just purchased some Birchwood Casey tru oil 3oz bottle. Tried it out this afternoon,well impressed 5 coats and shown is the difference to sanding sealant and microcrystalline wax. So easy to apply love it.
Input please guys.


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## sunnybob (22 Dec 2016)

Birchwood casey have been making gun stock finishing oils and treatments for many years. Highly respected name.
I shall be working on my shotgun stock next year and will be using that to re finish it.
Finishing has two camps, shiny gloss or understated matt. i'm mostly a shiny gloss man.


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## Alexam (24 Dec 2016)

Those 3 Oz bottles can dry out if you are not careful, so store upside down once opened and with a new one, just prick a small hole in the alumimium sealer (cocktail stick I use) and when finished, squeeze a little and stick some tape over that hole before screwing on the top.

As I have said many times, Tru-Oil is costly, but the results are worth it.
Malcolm

Happy Christmas everyone!


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## pops92 (24 Dec 2016)

Yeah got that from one of your earlier threads on tru oil. In addition to that I place cling film beween lid and foil top.
Merry Xmas to all members.
Thank you all for your input to my queries.



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