# Bandsaw Tyre Repair



## OPJ (18 Feb 2010)

Hi guys,

I've just acquired a second-hand Startrite 401E bandsaw (I'll have some photos for you later, once I've got a hand to drag it in under the garage door :?).

Now, I was aware of this before I agreed to buy the saw, but the top tyre is damaged in these sense that a chunk of it was ripped out recently when a wide blade snapped and retracted. This means that the blade don't track properly on the wheel and fall off the front of the tyres once the saw is started.

I've spoken to Startrite and have been advised that the cost of a new *wheel* would be £162.50 + VAT. To them, that really is the best option. Over in Italy, the rubber is bonded to the wheel and made concentric before a camber is added. Put simply: I cannot take the tyre off and fit a new one. Plus, the cost of returning the wheel to them and having it 'serviced' (including shipping to and from Italy) would far outweigh the cost of a new wheel.

Considering what I payed for the saw [_sorry, no, I won't tell you!!!_ ], that fee isn't unreasonable. Still, I can't afford that kind of money around at the minute and I'm wondering if there's a way to repair the tyre; at least temporarily until I can afford a new wheel...

I recently mentioned this to Ian John, who said they had a Wadkin bandsaw with the same problem at Dragon. Some kind of 'filler' was used but, unfortunately, Ian can't remember what it was. Startrite have suggested body filler may work, as it can be shaped easily.

What about the UKW forum? What do you guys suggest?

I mean, if I'm going to have to 'dispose of' the old wheel at some point anyway, I may as well try something now.

Thanks for reading. I would really appreciate your thoughts and will have some photos for you this evening.

Olly.


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## wizer (18 Feb 2010)

I reckon Bondo would probably do it actually. But there must be a company in the UK who can do this repair for you?


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## WellsWood (18 Feb 2010)

How big a chunk. Olly? if it's not too severe what about silicone sealer, with cling film (I would think you'd need to grease the underside to stop it sticking) drawn over it along with the surrounding area to form it into the correct profile? Maybe if the area is too large for the cling film trick you could simply shave it down to shape after curing with a very sharp knife.


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## Chems (18 Feb 2010)

Thats quite a beast bandsaw. I'm sure its something you could easily repair with the right type of stuff, some sort of glue and then sanded and filed back to shape would that work?


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## Shrubby (18 Feb 2010)

Olly
I would try 'Shoe Goo' or Sika caulk for the repair.They .should stick to whats there and can be crowned with a belt sander or die grider when cured.
Matt


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## newt (18 Feb 2010)

Olly it would be useful to know how much is missing. I would try and get some rubber of a similar composition and stick that in place. When dry sand to the correct profile. Rubber can be sanded and it is easier if you put it in the freezer first.


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## squib (18 Feb 2010)

+ 1 for sikaflex.


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## Eddie (18 Feb 2010)

Try these oneshttp://www.allbandsawblades.com/urethane_tires.htm

 Eddie


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## WellsWood (18 Feb 2010)

Eddie":3eqffhve said:


> Try these oneshttp://www.allbandsawblades.com/urethane_tires.htm
> 
> Eddie



Eddie, I think the point is Startrite have said the tyre can't be replaced without incurring a higher cost than that of a replacement.

That said I find it hard to believe that there isn't _some_ way to remove the old one. If a replacement is the only way, you have nothing to lose by trying to get the old one off (assuming a repair solution cannot be found).

How's this for an idea:
Put the damaged wheel on the bottom so it is driven directly, set the slowest speed you can, lash up a rest on the frame, and get out your turning tools. :wink:


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## jimi43 (18 Feb 2010)

I think most manufacturers say that you can't replace the tyres because...generally speaking....the average Joe who buys one can't do what is necessary.

I have seen tutorials on how to do it using the urethane "tires" from the USA...and have tried to find them in the UK to replace the ones on my DW739 which could do with new ones...some day. I understand that there might be heat shrink ones but the ones I have seen you glue in place with contact adhesive and make a scarf joint pointing away from the direction of rotation. The ones on that link look like either stretch or heat shrink though as they are already rings.

Jim


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## selly (18 Feb 2010)

In the farming industry this is availible for repairing rubber rollers which get a serious pasting. 

Not sure how good it is though

http://agricultural.spaldings.co.uk/Sho ... oupID=7343


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2010)

Wow, thanks for all the suggestions so far! :shock: I really don't know which one to try, first...  

Okay, I'd better show you some pictures.... :wink:







This is how it was for most of the day, as the driver was unwilling to help me manually unload the saw below the garage door (it was just too tall). H&S or insurance, I guess - Axminster would've gone all the way... 






Eventually, I managed to drag my dad down so we could get it inside. I don't know where to begin describing how on Earth we managed this... Let's just say that my B&D Workmate sweated more than either of us!!! 

My immediate reaction is that the table is incredibly low. Well, it's something I'll put up with (my SIP was too high... :roll. It will make it easier to cut large lumps.






Well, the main gouge (assuming this is it?) isn't half as bad as what I was expecting. Still, I can only imagine how this must affecting the tracking of wider blades. I'd hazard a guess and say narrow blades are okay, when tracked centrally?






There are also a couple of other scratches, like this, which I'd assume present less of a problem.

I haven't got things wired up and ready at the minute so, I can't yet switch it on and see what happens. I also think I've mistakenly been given a 110v lead instead of a blue 230v one.






Oh, and my other new toy arrived as well today (again, second hand). I couldn't afford much more after the bandsaw but, already, I'm impressed with the build quality and it feels so much more 'reliable' than my plasticcy Bosch every did. 

I'll give both saws a good clean up before I cut any wood and will have to make a decision on which filler to try - by all means, please, keep your suggestions coming!


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## wizer (18 Feb 2010)

I'm really beginning to hate certain people on this forum. Deep Seated HATE...


ahem. 

Doesn't look as bad as it sounded.

What size is that Makita. Can you report back on how well it cuts mitres please.


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## Digit (18 Feb 2010)

I'm sorry Olly but in my opinion their statement is BS! 
I've retired wheels nearly four feet in diameter. That size was normally bonded into place with Epoxy resin, it can be a swine to remove, but it can be a DIY job. Trust me! 

Roy.


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## WellsWood (18 Feb 2010)

That Makita's a 1013 Tom, same as mine.

That Startrite looks like a cracking bit of kit Olly, but must be a bit of a squeeze in your shop. 

As it happens I know all about tall bandsaws in garages with up'n'over doors, my Axy 4300 needs very careful positioning:


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## srp (18 Feb 2010)

From the photo it doesn't look as though that little bit of damage would cause the blade to jump off. It might be worth having a go at setting up the tracking before you start to think about retreading the tyres.
The link to the Peachtree site is interesting, but they don't seem to ship to the UK - it might be worth emailing them to see what they can do though.
I really don't believe Startrite when they say you can't take the old tyres off - someone put them on in the first place. It might be a struggle, but the old tyres can be removed.
Have a look at the Sika website www.sika.co.uk - they make loads of different sealants and adhesives and they have a very good technical department who will advise which is the best to use. Some of the marine grades I've used are incredibly tough when cured. As someone else suggested, cling-film makes a good 'clamp' when it comes to the sticking bit of the job.
Have a look here http://www.provincialrubber.co.uk/rolle ... ering.html as a start on finding the right sort of rubber.


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## iajon69 (18 Feb 2010)

Olly, if you can't repair the wheel, then there is a company in the UK (pretty sure that they are in South Wales) that can re-vulcanise bandsaw wheels - as usual my memory is playing up so can't remember the details off hand, but leave it with me and I will dig out the info and email you.


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## toolsntat (18 Feb 2010)

When I had to re-rubber the wheel that drives the planer/ thicknesser feed rollers on me Lurem combi the old one was still bonded good and well....

So the wheel was removed and set up against a disc sander then rotated to work down all the rough & uneaven areas.....

In the end I put the wheel back on without retiring it and it works ok :wink: 

You could possibly try this with your wheel but as previously said it don`t look that bad as it is.....

Andy


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## OPJ (18 Feb 2010)

srp":32lxhpl6 said:


> From the photo it doesn't look as though that little bit of damage would cause the blade to jump off.



I know what you mean. But the seller wasn't having any trouble keeping a blade on the wheels until _after_ a wide blade snapped and shot back up inside the saw (that was when he noticed this damage). Anything less than an inch wide would probably be alright.

I don't doubt that the tyre could be removed, either (if someone put it _on_ there, etc.). I just think it would be a lot of work when I could (hopefully) curve it with a little filler.

Mark, that's brilliant!  I remember you telling me about it last year.

Must start following all these links you good people are posting...


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## chipchaser (19 Feb 2010)

I would try runnning it as is before doing anything else. If it doesn’t run ok then it must be worth trying a repair. That polyurethane roller repair compound looks good if the hardness of the set compound is somewhere near right. 

If it doesn’t work maybe one of these firms could help:

http://www.fife-engineering.com/rollers.html

http://www.par-group.co.uk/rubber-polyu ... overy.aspx

There might be other firms nearer to you, try a search on applegate for rubber or polyurethane rollers

Regards

Graham


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## OPJ (19 Feb 2010)

Just spoken to Sika and their only suggestions is a "fairly stiff windscreen adhesive". Again, that's a polyurethane, similar to what others have suggested. That seems to be the way to go... I am a little concerned that car body filler would not bond properly, could come lose and, because it dries rock-hard, could damage something or some_one_... :? I also wonder whether it would be so hard that it wears the set on one side of the blades?


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## Steve Maskery (19 Feb 2010)

Olly

I would bet a pound to a penny that that little bit of damage is not your problem at all. Your problem, I suggest, is tracking. Tracking of the bottom wheel.

You say that the the blade jumps off when the saw is stated. As soon as the saw is started? If so, that is a classic symptom of East-West tracking of the bottom wheel. It means that the two wheels are not in the same plane, twisted in respect to each other, so the blade is shrugged off, like slipping off your jacket.

To correct this, adjust the bolts which hold the bottom axle in place. There are four and normally you would adjust just the N-S pair, leaving the E-W pair alone. But if the wheel is in the wrong plane, then you need to adjust the E-W pair until it's right.

You've got my DVD, watch it! 

HTH
Steve


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## OPJ (19 Feb 2010)

Yes, Steve, that is also what I had suspected first of all (and I will check it all, later on). Though, it seems strange that this has only started happening since the wide blade snapped, which is why I've stuck with the tyre-theory so far...

I just can't imagine that one blade jumping off is enough to upset the tracking of the lower wheel though? :? I do trust the guy who sold me this saw but, alas, I'll have a proper look when I finally get off this sodding PC!


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## Steve Maskery (19 Feb 2010)

Well how about this for a scenario?

Blade breaks and gets mangled up inside saw.

Wheels get jammed with knackered blade.

Wheel is removed to extricate blade.

Wheel get replaced but not adjusted properly.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

S


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## kasandrich (19 Feb 2010)

Steve Maskery":1byk2p76 said:


> I'm not saying that's what happened, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....
> 
> S



......if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck........then it could be a chicken in disguise :lol: :lol: 

I agree, start with setting up from scratch in accordance with Steves DVD then try different widths of blade, if it will run a 3/4" blade but not a 1" blade, considering the cost of a new wheel, can that be justified for an extra 1/4" blade?


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## promhandicam (19 Feb 2010)

I don't know what is suggested for the 401e but in the manual for my 502e it says to position the blade so that the teeth are on the edge of the wheel - presumably so that they don't damage the tyre. If it is the same for yours, this may be why it is difficult to get the blade to track as the damage is on the front edge by the looks of it.

Steve


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## Steve Maskery (19 Feb 2010)

That's OK for a wide blade, but not practicable for anything below, say, 1/2". It's also much more difficult to track straight and true in that position.

I go for central with good tracking every time. Damage to the tyre is minimal and performance is max.

S


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## wizer (19 Feb 2010)

My bandsaw always tracks to the front. I tend to get a crowned cut then re-sawing. Is that the same wheel adjustment Steve? i.e the four bolts. Yes, Yes I've seen the DVD. I might watch it again this afternoon actually


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## 9fingers (19 Feb 2010)

wizer":26dts99q said:


> My bandsaw always tracks to the front. I tend to get a crowned cut then re-sawing. Is that the same wheel adjustment Steve? i.e the four bolts. Yes, Yes I've seen the DVD. I might watch it again this afternoon actually



The position of the blade for cutting purposes should be completely controlled by the guides and not any crowning of the wheel.

My BS manual even shows a guide system that puts a 45 degree twist into the blade to enable crosscuts of long items. Not tried this I must add though. Seems a bit extreme :shock: 

Bob


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## Steve Maskery (19 Feb 2010)

Crowned cut as in not flat top to bottom?

That is probably insufficient tension. The blade is being pulled down by the bottom wheel, so the section of blade underneath the table but above the wheel is in greatest tension.

However, the workpiece offers resistance, so the section of blade above the workpiece but below the top wheel is in least tension. The workpiece is, effectively, pushing the blade up. And if you push anything that is not rigid, it buckles.

The answer is to use a blade specifically designed for resawing and tension it properly. I've go one of Ian's that is 2 TPI plus a raker in between. It looks the bee's knees but I haven't actually tried it yet. It's 3/4" wide though, so it will put my machine to the test as I'm usually up to nearly max on a 1/2" blade. I'm hoping that its thin-kerf nature will allow me to tension it properly. (Less steel = easier tensioning).

HTH
S


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## Jake (19 Feb 2010)

Mine's a 401 as well, and I always run with the teeth on or just off the front edge even with thin blades. Tracking is never a problem in the slightest.


I'd suspect like Steve that the wheel has been shoved out of whack to screw the tracking up that badly that the blade jumps - unless some of the rubber is sticking up rather than just missing (in which case sand/grind/cut it down).


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## Steve Maskery (19 Feb 2010)

9fingers":lm506h78 said:


> The position of the blade for cutting purposes should be completely controlled by the guides and not any crowning of the wheel.



Ooh, I don't agree with you ther, Bob 


9fingers":lm506h78 said:


> My BS manual even shows a guide system that puts a 45 degree twist into the blade to enable crosscuts of long items. Not tried this I must add though. Seems a bit extreme :shock:



I've seen metal-cutting bandsaws like that, but never used one.


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## OPJ (19 Feb 2010)

promhandicam":36ppd7t5 said:


> I don't know what is suggested for the 401e but in the manual for my 502e it says to position the blade so that the teeth are on the edge of the wheel - presumably so that they don't damage the tyre. If it is the same for yours, this may be why it is difficult to get the blade to track as the damage is on the front edge by the looks of it.
> 
> Steve



Steve, I think you've got it! :wink: My manual says the same.

I've been out there this morning, cleaned everything up (didn't need a lot of work) and have fitted a 1/2" blade centrally on the wheels - it seems fine. I had to re-adjust the tracking on the lower wheel slightly but, it's not moving and it's certainly not going to fall off.

At the moment, I'm only able to rotate the wheels by hand as I'm not yet wired-up for 16amps. But I'm doing this for at least thirty-seconds, as the man from Startrite advised.

If you look again at these photos:












It looks as though he might have been doing the same with narrow blades as well (I could be wrong and that could just be where the teeth were running on blades of varying width).

I haven't yet tried the big 1" blade I've got because I need to practice coiling a long blade again before I let that one out!  I can't imagine any of the other blades having any trouble with this, though.

It might be nice to try and fill it one day but, I agree with kasandrich; you can do a lot with narrow blades and they're a bit cheaper to replace. 

Well, it looks like I could be worrying over nothing although, we won't know for sure until I get some power running in to it. 

Why would you run a 25mm blade with the points protruding over the tyre though? Is it to do with the camber of the tyres?


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## 9fingers (19 Feb 2010)

Steve Maskery":2bkxhx7j said:


> 9fingers":2bkxhx7j said:
> 
> 
> > The position of the blade for cutting purposes should be completely controlled by the guides and not any crowning of the wheel.
> ...



Perhaps I should have said the guides should control the side to side position and angle of the blade. The crowning and tracking will affect the front to back blade position but the guide should then be adjusted to compliment that.

Bob


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## OPJ (22 Feb 2010)

Just a quick note to say that I tried fitting the 25mm blade over the weekend and it's _fine_. You can see below that it _just_ misses the damaged part of the top tyre, when tracked centrally.






I don't see any reason why thy would "have" to have the points overhanging the front edge so, I'll continue doing it like this. I've now got power running to the saw and I have to say, what a joy it is to have this machine in my workshop! 

I'll probably stick with 3/4" blades as my widest so, I doubt that tyre will ever get repaired (unless it gets worse).


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