# Plane Cabinet - WIP!!!



## eoinsgaff (12 Oct 2010)

I'm planning a cabinet to store my planes over the coming months and I have a number of questions. I'll start with one first.

The primary purpose of this cabinet is to prevent rust. The planes are stored indoors but the house is very damp. I use various rust inhibitors but after a couple of hours use its easy to forget to reapply the wax or what ever. 

I've heard of VCI rust inhibitors being used. Has anyone an idea if a VCI is available to spray onto a decorative felt or is there a similar approach I could consider. 

One must appreciate the difficulty of the conditions where I have my tools. I have a temporary plywood box, sealed pretty tight, plenty of silica gel packs in place and still the tools rust if they are not lathered with wax. Very frustrating...


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## Corset (13 Oct 2010)

I have this problem in my garage. i just leave a low watt light bulb running. I think it is 7watt. Never had any problems since.
Plus it gives a nice glow when you open the box.


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## woodbloke (13 Oct 2010)

I believe Bob9fingers uses a very successful electrical method to keep the dreaded rusticles at bay...might be worth a PM to see how it's done? - Rob


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## warrenr (13 Oct 2010)

Hi

I have used dedicated low power wardrobe heaters in the tropics with success (probably a slightly safer but more costly variant on the low power light bulb). You can get them on e-bay. Another option is a low power greenhouse heater as a general space heater (again on e-bay) 

I use boxes of absorbent crystals in wardrobes here in Thailand to protect clothing and leather shoes. They are very effective in removing moisture and last about six months in a very high humidity environment. I was surprised to see a very similar product at a discount stall at a local auction near Ipswich. Each box cost a pound and will absorb around a pint of water. I have put a couple in each of two large tool boxes where I keep my planes, chisels and other easily damaged items. Given the restricted space, they should last a reasonable time.

Worth a try if you can find them.

Regards
Richard


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## eoinsgaff (13 Oct 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far. 

To be honest I'm not keen on any form of electrical approach. The tools are left unattended for weeks at a time so the fear of a fire and the resultant heart failure means I'd prefer a different approach.

For those reasons I like idea of the absorbent crystals. I must check this out further. Is there a particular trading name I should look out for?

I'm still interested on opinions on the VCI option. I wish to give a felt backing to the cabinet anyway so it would be great if this could be used for rust protection as well. I'm sure I recently came across a new drawer liner product of this nature but I'm damned if I can remember where.

Regards

Eoin


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## Alf (14 Oct 2010)

I'd watch out on the felt, Eoin. As I understand it, not all felt is created equal and some of it contains nasties that actively cause rust - I believe you need to make sure it's wool felt as other fibres are the ones that need the nasties to make them felt together. Secondly, if _any_ moisture is around the felt will tend to absorb it and hold it against your planes so they rust nice and evenly.

Those little tins of rust inhibitor that give off anti-rust vibes (or whatever it is they do) work pretty well. Having said which, personally I had some reaction with the brass on some of my tools that were too close to it, so I wouldn't use them again. But maybe I was just unlucky.


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## samharber (14 Oct 2010)

A slightly different approach is to use a sacrificial block. If you connect your planes by a conductive material (i.e. metal wire) to a large lump of a slightly more reactive metal (such as zinc if I recall correctly), then this block will preferentially corrode. Then you just need to replace this block when it's more or less corroded away.

That at least is the theory, and works well on oil rigs and the like.


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## warrenr (14 Oct 2010)

Eoin

I am currently away overseas and cannot tell you the brand but I suspect if you look in market stalls or in bargain shops you will find them in a blue or pink box, size 450ml. On the net the key words are moisture absorber

The ones I bought looked like this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/POWERFUL-MOISTURE ... 2c57552122

but cost only a pound!

Hope this helps
Richard


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## eoinsgaff (14 Oct 2010)

ALF, of course. That makes the world of sense. How could I miss that? I'll have to consider another liner, or try for the pure wool one. 

Samharber, I must look a little more into that. Not sure if its what I'm looking for but maybe it could be adapted with a little thought.

Richard, thanks for that. It'll be my first port of call as it appears to be the simplest and will work for a while at least. 

I'm still pondering the VCI option. Must do some further research...

Thank you everyone

Eoin


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## eoinsgaff (14 Oct 2010)

Ah ha... Zerust!!! Drawerliners and, as you proposed ALF, capsules. Might be the way to go.

Eoin


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## como (14 Oct 2010)

Eoin,

You should be able to get those moisure absorbant crystals from a caravan/camping supplies shop. We have bought them in the past for keeping damp at bay when storing the caravan for the winter.

Hope this helps.

Mark


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## Waka (14 Oct 2010)

Why don't you line the cabinet with cork, thats what I did with my cabinet, it also protects the tools.

For rust prevention I use silica gels bags and those little pot things that come form Axminster, no rust to date.


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## Dibs-h (14 Oct 2010)

como":jujv88dc said:


> Eoin,
> 
> You should be able to get those moisure absorbant crystals from a caravan/camping supplies shop. We have bought them in the past for keeping damp at bay when storing the caravan for the winter.
> 
> ...



There's a Go Outdoors near us - bought a bag with several KG in it for not much. I have it in the "other" car when it's not being driven to keep the interior free of moisture & therefore whatever that brings with it.

HIH

Dibs


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## Pvt_Ryan (15 Oct 2010)

This idea got me thinking.

Project file:
http://ninet.org/woodwork/sketchup/PlaneCabinet.skp


Notes: 
Oak for the outer frame.
Dark wood inset on front door. 
Can't decide what to use for the back, you could use oak but if you attach to the wall do you want to damage decent wood. So perhaps MDF then on the inside line with felt.

The plane slots are aprox and for the shorter plane either lower the roof of each or insert mini shelves for spare parts.

The plank on the inside of the front door should have holes cut to hang chisels.

The rest of the inside could be customised as needed.


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## eoinsgaff (19 Oct 2010)

Thanks guys for the help to date. I think with the absorbent crystals, a VCI capsule and impregnated liner should do the trick! For now anyhow. However, I have another problem I like some advice on. Firstly, the following is roughly what I had in mind.




There will be a back to this of course. My issue is that I'd like to add a full glass front, preferably opening upwards. For the rust problem its important to keep the cabinet airtight so I was considering a rubber seal in the rebate around the front as well as the glass sitting in here. 

My problem is hinging the glass upward. I've seen some Blaum mechanisms which allow for a soft, upward opening but these would be too unsightly inside the glass door. Also, regular glass hinges would prevent a neat seating of the glass into the rebate so something like the regular kitchen door hinges would be useful.

Have I made this problem clear? If not, let me know. If I have, then is there any ideas out there.

Regards

Eoin


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## eoinsgaff (25 Oct 2010)

So, no ideas then???  

In the meantime I've started on the outer frame (with a changed layout) and I'll put up a few WIP photos over the next few days. However I've still not resolved my problem with the proposed glass door so any ideas would be appreciated.


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## eoinsgaff (26 Oct 2010)

OK, my first WIP and my first full project, if I manage to complete it of course. 

I got a nearby shop to plane and thickness QS white oak for me. 




This gave me a problem as the stock turned out to be pretty poor in places so I had to revise my design to account for less wood. After much deliberation over a few days I finally decided upon the sections of oak I could use and reduced the cabinet accordingly.




I cut the sections I needed...




...and began handplaning to the finished surface.




While I was aiming for a fine finish, it quickly became clear that I would not be able to plane out all the defects caused by the p/t taking out lumps of gnarly grain. As the cabinet is to used to store my planes, its probably ok to go for an unfinished look, or maybe just an oil finish. It remains to be seen.
Finally I had to arrange the sections as I intended to build them.




One of the long, horizontal pieces was quite poor and I couldn't decide wether to use it on the top or the bottom. Which would be more visible? I then realized that since the cabinet was to have a glass front the underside of the top piece would be most visible. It was definitely worth taking my time with that one.
Dovetails next to joint the four pieces in the last pick. I'm going to do a mock up of the dovetails so as to get as decent balance between the tails and the pins. I've done some neat dovetails in the past (and many terrible ones) that have been let down by a poor pin to tail ratio. I'm not sure how to approach this so I'll do a bit of guess work on the mock up.

I still need advice on the glass door to this cabinet as asked previously. Help would be really appreciated. 

Thanks for looking

Eoin


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## eoinsgaff (28 Oct 2010)

OK, time to start the dovetails.




When laid out like that, I'm always reminded of a set of antiquated surgeons wartime tools. 

I marked out the doves tails as per the mockup I had made. Still not a perfect proportion but better than I had before. I'd welcome comments on this point. I ganged up the two boards to cut tails, not only to speed up the operation, but to use the longer line on top of the tails to make it easier to keep my saw cuts square.




When I had the tails cut I got a little anxious. The pins are quite small and likely to be quite tricky. 




Thats it for now. I'm looking forward to finishing these dovetails. This hard oak is not going to give me much room maneuver so I'm a little apprehensive. 
Thanks for looking in, 
Eoin


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## Alf (28 Oct 2010)

eoinsgaff":2shs8jnz said:


> When laid out like that, I'm always reminded of a set of antiquated surgeons wartime tools.


Heh, I know what you mean. It's the piercing saw looking a bit like a bone saw, I think... And I deduce you are a student of Cosman. Looks good so far, and the oak will certainly be a test; real world stuff instead of all these darn demonstrations with readily compressible timbers. *gets off soap box owing to danger of ranting* :wink:


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## AndyT (29 Oct 2010)

Nobody's come up with any magic hinges to hold a frameless glass door up when hinged along the top.

If I were you, I'd make a slim wooden frame for the glass. It would give you all the usual options for hingeing. You could even have the frame sit within the sides and hinge it by inserting a pair of horizontal pins at the top corners, which could be quite unobtrusive.

Some nice beading round the frame, and it could look good - a bit like a museum display case. (_Not_ wanting to suggest these planes won't be used - I can see that you want the glass to keep them visible!)


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## eoinsgaff (31 Oct 2010)

Alf, perfect deduction. I found Cosman a good start but I hope to be able to change his method to suit my technique as I progress. I'm saving the saw dust from the dovetail cutting in case of an emergency...

Andy, that would have been the sound approach but I'm hell bent on using only glass on the door. 

I've seen a type of hinge for glass thats almost identical to the standard kitchen door hinges. The glass would need to be drilled however. There's a cheap and reasonably common type of 'catch' for vertical kitchen doors. I don't know the name of it but its basically a bar that holds the door open and then a little push up releases the vertical door. Does this sound familiar to anyone and would it work? I've been looking on Issac Lord and a few other sites but I can't find it.

As an aside, any other Wallander fans out there?


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## eoinsgaff (3 Nov 2010)

Ok, I've found a number of fittings which I'd like to try for the glass flap door to the cabinet. 
I'm not sure about the first two, as follows, but I must consider the cost...










But this one is my favouite...




Will they work with glass? They are all Hafele products. 

I have no experience with products like these so I would welcome some guidance. 

Regards

Eoin


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## eoinsgaff (7 Nov 2010)

A bit of further chopping out of the dovetails.






I've broken the blade on my piercing saw and I'm going to need it badly. I think I may have made my pins are far too small...

*ECHO* ECHO echo...


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## MickCheese (7 Nov 2010)

I'm watching and interested! :wink: 

Mick


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## studders (7 Nov 2010)

Ditto.


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## Blister (8 Nov 2010)

Good looking project and some nice tools as well :lol:


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## eoinsgaff (9 Nov 2010)

Thanks lads. Ha ha, I have been good to myself with my tools but let he/she who has not sinned cast the first stone...

I wonder how far down this slope I have gotten?

Eoin


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## woodbloke (9 Nov 2010)

Blister":3ul27fxu said:


> Good looking project and some nice tools as well :lol:


...'specially that dovetail saw :wink: - Rob


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## Alf (9 Nov 2010)

eoinsgaff":2f4fhnps said:


> Thanks lads. Ha ha, I have been good to myself with my tools but let he/she who has not sinned cast the first stone...



I threw away all my stones ages ago, for safety.  Looks good. Moral of the story so far is always have a gaggle of spare blades for the piercing saw in hand. :wink:


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## eoinsgaff (10 Nov 2010)

> ...'specially that dovetail saw - Rob



Most certainly. I had a twenty something TPI Pax dovetail saw before that and the Lie nielsen was a revelation. I suspect it may have something to do with the way it was masterfully sharpened before I got it :wink:...

However, I must now learn to sharpen it myself...  

Alf, I think a few stones in reserve are no load. For defensive purposes of course...

Eoin


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## woodbloke (10 Nov 2010)

Dovetail spacings look good to me...I'd have left the outside half pins a tad wider though. The general rule of thumb is_ half the thickness of the board plus a mm or two_ - Rob


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## eoinsgaff (3 Jan 2011)

Ok everyone, happy new year to you all. 

I'm taken this project a little further over the holidays. I've missed a few steps with the camera which happens when one is engrossed in their work.





Above I have glued up the dovetail joints and used a router to make stopped dado's for the shelves and to mill out a rebate, identical on back and front, for the backing and glass door. The dovetails were a challenge on the hard oak and were by no means perfect. However, they'll have to do. It may be worth noting that the rebate has actually highlighted a number of problems with the dovetail joinery, but, how's ever. We live, we learn.





Here I'm touching up the planed finish after the glue-up.





I have to square the corners of the rebate so I use the marking gauge to mark a neat line into these corners.

More to follow

Eoin


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## woodbloke (3 Jan 2011)

Looking rather tasty so far Eoin. That AWO can be a bit tricky to clean up effectively and although I've made one or two bits in it (courtesy of Waka) it's not my favourite timber of choice, but is available in good, straight sizes (for the most part) I assume that the back is going to be some sort of veneered panel p'raps, or maybe the full Monty with a solid oak boards in a frame :-"? For a piece of this quality it would be worth thinking about the latter - Rob


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## eoinsgaff (3 Jan 2011)

I started to fit the shelves. I got myself a Veritas side rebate plane to help fine tune the dado's and I kept my router work tight to allow this plane make the fine adjustment. However I was struck with a problem then as I hadn't accounted for the fact that the dado's were stopped. I've asked this question on the Handtools Board so I won't go into the side rebate plane issue here. 

At the time my first solution was to use the shoulder plane, guided by a knife line, to pare a little off the ends of the shelves...








However this was not very successful as the self didn't fit tight in places. The solution turned out to be easier than I thought. I just planed the self to fit. 
Simples!!!
It can be so easy to over think something.





This is how the end product might look. There is a couple of dividers missing from the shelves, which have not yet been glued in place. A back must be decided upon, a finish must be decided upon and the glass front fitted. 

A gloat??? :shock: 
Well, maybe. Subconsciously.  

Key Lesson learnt!!! - when to leave a line and not to leave the line! The shelves are haunched to extend beyond the dado. They were marked out carefully by setting the shelves in place and marking with a knife. These were chiseled square and still a space was still evident. Even on the last shelf where I left most of the knife line, there was still a space. I had thought that using a knife meant that 'inside the line, outside the line' in terms of cutting was irrelevant. How wrong I was.

Thanks for looking in,
Regards

Eoin


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## eoinsgaff (3 Jan 2011)

Oh Rob. Hmmm, for the back I first considered a MDF/Ply with felt glued on. This then went to a leather hide finish that might be used on a writing desk. While thinking about these options I was also thinking about vertical lapped boards. 

Now you've got me really thinking. My rebate is slightly less than 10mm deep. Could I get a frame in here? The shelves are not glued in yet so I could push them out a further few mm. I have used ash for the shelves with a very nice grain colour and figure. Would I fit this into a AWO frame? For movement, would it be enough to make allowances within the frame and then to fit this within the rebate or would I have to make an allowance in the rebate also.

Oh hell, so much to think of. While this is bugging the hell out of me, I must still offer my thanks Rob. You may have helped me save this piece.

Eoin


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## woodbloke (3 Jan 2011)

eoinsgaff":q38o6bt0 said:


> Now you've got me really thinking. My rebate is slightly less than 10mm deep. Could I get a frame in here? The shelves are not glued in yet so I could push them out a further few mm. I have used ash for the shelves with a very nice grain colour and figure. Would I fit this into a AWO frame? For movement, would it be enough to make allowances within the frame and then to fit this within the rebate or would I have to make an allowance in the rebate also.
> 
> Oh hell, so much to think of. While this is bugging the hell out of me, I must still offer my thanks Rob. You may have helped me save this piece.
> 
> Eoin


Making a full paneled back from solid timber is a lot of work, no question, but in my view, it's worth the effort in the end. If the rebate a tad less than 10mm as you say (which is about right) then I'd make the corners of the frames using bridles with the tongue being a narrow 4mm or so. The groove for the panel would also be 4mm as well and the panels themselves need be no thicker than 6/7mm and fitted so that they're slightly below the level of the frame...easier cleaning up. I'd also add a central vertical rail as well as the cabinet is quite long. If you make the whole thickness of the back panel the same as the depth of the rebate, you'll find that you won't have to make any allowances in the width of the shelves - Rob


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## Shultzy (3 Jan 2011)

Just a small tip, if you route out a rebate its easier to round the corners of the back panel than to square the corners of the rebate. As its at the back either won't be seen.


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## woodbloke (3 Jan 2011)

Shultzy":123kvuls said:


> Just a small tip, if you route out a rebate its easier to round the corners of the back panel than to square the corners of the rebate. As its at the back either won't be seen.


I'm not sure I'd entirely agree there Shultzy. I've tried both ways and I find it easier to square out the corner (not too difficult a job if the rebate's a narrow one) and then plane the panel for a good fit. If the corners are left rounded and the panel is shaped to fit, it can be a bit of a 'mare to get a really good fit in all four corners...I know it's the back and nobody's going to see it, but it would always irritate me if I knew that the fit in the round corners was sloppy - Rob


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## Ateallthepies (3 Jan 2011)

Just a point about the rust protection. Has anyone used one of those vapour sachets meant for gun cabinets like this one...http://www.uttings.co.uk/Product/655/10 ... chet-vp90/ ?

I use these in my cabinet and have no rust at all. They are supposed to be good for 6-9 months and the vapour adherers only to metal.


Steve.


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## Dodge (4 Jan 2011)

eoinsgaff":2a3toyqv said:


> For those reasons I like idea of the absorbent crystals. I must check this out further. Is there a particular trading name I should look out for?
> 
> 
> Eoin



There used to be a computer company opposite my workshop, and everything came in packed with large absorbent crystal pouches which they just throw away. I regularly pop in and see them and collect a handful which I throw in my plane cabinet - Have been doing this for years and have kept the dreaded rust at bay!

I also occassionaly put them near the woodburner (not too close) to dry them out fully again!

So try your local computer or electrical shop - I'm sure you will find they are happy to get rid of them.

Rog


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## TheTiddles (6 Jan 2011)

Dodge":3akgrfg8 said:


> eoinsgaff":3akgrfg8 said:
> 
> 
> > For those reasons I like idea of the absorbent crystals. I must check this out further. Is there a particular trading name I should look out for?
> ...



That's the way to do it, if you haven't got a big packet then you can empty lots of little ones into a small jar. It's a reversible reaction too, so everysooften you can place the jars in a low oven or after it's been switched off and drive the moisture out of the crystals again

aidan


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## woodbloke (6 Jan 2011)

...it's even cheaper to use a handful of rice to absorb moisture. It's the way I keep biscuits nice a dry in old coffee jars - Rob


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## TheTiddles (9 Jan 2011)

woodbloke":1yq40wna said:


> ...it's even cheaper to use a handful of rice to absorb moisture. It's the way I keep biscuits nice a dry in old coffee jars - Rob




And after about 15 years it's ready to serve with a curry!

Aidan


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## woodbloke (9 Jan 2011)

TheTiddles":3u3y75mf said:


> woodbloke":3u3y75mf said:
> 
> 
> > ...it's even cheaper to use a handful of rice to absorb moisture. It's the way I keep biscuits nice a dry in old coffee jars - Rob
> ...


... although foodies do say a good curry needs to be cooked slowly - Rob


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## mbartlett99 (9 Jan 2011)

samharber":3igekwbx said:


> A slightly different approach is to use a sacrificial block. If you connect your planes by a conductive material (i.e. metal wire) to a large lump of a slightly more reactive metal (such as zinc if I recall correctly), then this block will preferentially corrode. Then you just need to replace this block when it's more or less corroded away.
> 
> That at least is the theory, and works well on oil rigs and the like.



That is the standard way on protecting underwater structures but you're missing the vital ingredient - seawater to complete the circuit.

We usually wrap out parts onboard in specially impregnated paper, I get it from Caterpillar but there must be a more easily available source - perhaps RS Components might be worth a gander. Surprised that your tools are that badly affected indoors though wonder if something else is not at play.


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## Chems (9 Jan 2011)

woodbloke":25vyx87b said:


> ...it's even cheaper to use a handful of rice to absorb moisture. It's the way I keep biscuits nice a dry in old coffee jars - Rob



Do you think that would work if I put a bowl of rice in my car for a few days to absorb all the moisture that got in the car with the snow on shoes?


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## Einari Rystykaemmen (10 Jan 2011)

Chems":2s9whwlj said:


> Do you think that would work if I put a bowl of rice in my car for a few days to absorb all the moisture that got in the car with the snow on shoes?



Haha! Same problem here. I ended up to run my car interior heater several hours longer than I normally do. I also need to replace worn out rubber carpet of driver's floor to avoid moisture absorbing to upholstery... :wink:


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## Chems (10 Jan 2011)

My mats are Velour which really soaked it up. The screen was covered in a green mist today that look ages to dry off, the car also has a heated window screen and it didn't seem to help much.


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## eoinsgaff (20 Feb 2011)

Ok, I'm going to take Robs advice and try for a frame and panel back to the cabinet. 

However, first I'm going to do a little finishing. For the sake of simplicity I'm using and danish oil and wax finish. I do seem to recall from somewhere that when this finish is used with ash (my shelves) it leads to a p!ss yellow colour. for that reason I think I'll just oil the oak and wax the whole arrangement.
Here I have been oiling the main body of the cabinet. 3 coats of danish oil. Wax to follow later.






Next I have started on the panels. I'm using ash for these and the same oak for the frames. I've a limited stock but I have still tried to match as best I can and to make it interesting. There is a nice feature to the colour and grain.





I use the No.7 (straight edged blade) to match joining edges.





Then a light rub of the No. 4 to 'spring' the straight edge joint.





Gluing up the panels and cleaning off the dried glue.









The panels were then planed flat and cut to shape. 




I've had some thoughts about the profile of the panel and I'm going to leave it very simple. I don't ant to go at it with a router and I don't have the profile planes. I don't want to do any thing fussy now any way. Just a simple rabbit and groove. I'll leave it until the frame is finished.

Now to plane up the frame pieces.





The No.5 1/2 is the best tool I've gotten yet. What a work horse. 
I can't wait to get the frames finished but I will have to...

Thanks for looking again.

Eoin


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## woodbloke (20 Feb 2011)

Looks like that panel work is coming along quite nicely. I usually always opt for a simple rebated panel, leaving around a mm each side to allow for expansion or contraction across the grain, a dab of glue in the centre top and bottom is all that's needed to hold it in place. You're right about the ash and danish oil as well, something that won't make it go that 'orrid p!ss colour is what's needed...I'd do a little experimentation and maybe try some matt acrylic and wax or maybe a few coats of blond shellac and wax. The wearing surfaces of the shelves I'd definitely do in acrylic as it's quite tough - Rob


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## eoinsgaff (17 Mar 2011)

Thanks Rob, I must look into that acrylic.

I can see that this WIP is getting a bit monotonous as there are no machine (money) shots but it's just me and the bench for the most part. 

I got the oak for the frame shaped and planed. I've decided to run a groove all around to hold the panel with my plough plane. 





To simplify joining the vertical members to the horizontal I just carried the grooves on the horizontal pieces out to the ends. I then wanted to run a similar groove in the end of the vertical member and just fit a spline/loose tenon to join the pieces together. The problem was grooving the end grain. I wasn't sure the LV Small Plough would be up to it and tear-out would be a nightmare. 

However, on a sample piece the LV was well able for the end grain (AWO!!!) and the longitudinal grooves offered a perfect situation when two vertical pieces were positioned back to back.





Two small saw cuts on the exiting side of the groove before planing meant there was no tear-out at all. 

Hopefully I'll be able to finish up this piece fairly soon

St Patricks day greetings to everybody

Eoin


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## Benchwayze (18 Mar 2011)

Why is your gaff damp Eoin?

Couldn't you treat the disease, and not the symptom? 

Of course in the days of tungsten bulbs, which gave out a lot of waste heat, one could make a radiant heater with a batten-lamp-holder, a biscuit tin with holes in it, and a metal chimney. That's how I heated my greenhouse years ago, all for the price of leaving on a 25Watt bulb. It would no doubt work in a workshop too.

Regards
John


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## Orcamesh (18 Mar 2011)

Hi Eoin

I'm currently preparing some Ash to make my son a display cabinet not too far different from your plane cabinet and in size too. I have a basic sketchup design (no joint details) but am still deciding on exact details about joints etc. It will have side hinged, wooden framed glass panelled doors so that my son's soldiers can be viewed through the doors. I hope to add glass shelves too. The carcase will be about 800mm wide, 500mm tall and 160mm deep.

However, the back is causing me a headache and I see that your back is to be solid wood T&G. From the photos it seems that the boards for this are about 10-12mm thick, is that right? I am trying to minimise loss of depth in my cabinet so would like to keep the solid wood back as thin as possible (<10mm), but I guess that this is adequate for a back so don't anticipate any problems here. I could use a veneered piece of MDF or other substrate but I do not want to spend any more cash on this and I have enough Ash to make the back anyway! I was also going to have a T&G arrangement and screw into the bottom & top shelves from the back. 

I had intended to just rout a rebate around the jointed sides/top/bottom as you have done but not sure if this is right as the fixing of the T&G back into the rebate seems problematic? If there is a slot in the sides/top/bottom rather than a rebate then the slot will hold the T&G back in place and the wood can expand back and forth freely, but with a rebated carcase the T&G back will be free to pop out so I guess with this design that you need to put a screw in each piece of the T&G?

I also plan to through dovetail the side/top/bottom at each corner.

How are you going to attach your back to the rebate in the carcase? Are your carcase parts 20mm (ish) thick?

I notice that you have oriented your dovetails so that the tails are visible from the sides. I have been reading some books (dangerous, I know!) and they all seem to orient the tails on the upper/lower surfaces. I prefer your choice as the tails are better looking! Not sure why the books all have them round the other way? Maybe because they are applying solid top which overlie them?

Anyway, I would be interested to get your input...

cheers
Steve/HM


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## Benchwayze (18 Mar 2011)

Steve, 

Orienting dovetails so the tails are on the top and bottom of case work, is like putting the tails on the front of a drawer. The joint can pull apart. 
That's why dovetails should be on the vertical members, so the weight of contents won't pull the cabinet asunder; eventually. 

Modern adhesives might hold, I know, but I don't take chances like that. And of course it's why unreinforced finger-joints would be as bad an option. If I did ever put dovetails on the top and bottom of casework, I'd at least reinforce, by running in a blind dowel from the back.


That's my thinking. 

Regards
John


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## LOUS HARDWARE (18 Mar 2011)

Another idea for rust free tools is 
a 5 gallon bucket full of play sand. To this add 1 quart of used motor oil. When done using the tools, simply push the blade into the bucket and work it a few times. This not only cleans the dirt and grime from the blade, it also serves the purpose of oiling without a dripping mess. Don't use too much oil, 1 quart in a 5 gallon bucket works just fine. This keeps the sand from sticking to the blade. Afterward, I wipe the blade with an old rag, my tools stay clean, sharp, and rust-free.


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## Benchwayze (18 Mar 2011)

LOUS HARDWARE":2xnc83fe said:


> Another idea for rust free tools is
> a 5 gallon bucket full of play sand. To this add 1 quart of used motor oil. When done using the tools, simply push the blade into the bucket and work it a few times. This not only cleans the dirt and grime from the blade, it also serves the purpose of oiling without a dripping mess. Don't use too much oil, 1 quart in a 5 gallon bucket works just fine. This keeps the sand from sticking to the blade. Afterward, I wipe the blade with an old rag, my tools stay clean, sharp, and rust-free.



For spades, shovels and forks, etc., yes. Great idea. 
Don't think I'd want to shove my Lie-Nielsen blades into sand though! 

John


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## Pvt_Ryan (18 Mar 2011)

Benchwayze":2t576osr said:


> LOUS HARDWARE":2t576osr said:
> 
> 
> > Another idea for rust free tools is
> ...



That depends on if you want to cut anything with them again.


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## eoinsgaff (18 Mar 2011)

John (Benchwayze), my bench is currently located in a bedroom of my uncles house where I stay from time to time. The house is old and needs to be heated almost all day to keep it dry. As this room is empty most of the time its not heated. This is compounded by the area. Its close to the sea so the climate is quite harsh. Everything rusts here. Almost over night. Its incredible. Anyway, I'm not in a position to treat the disease for now. Hopefully I'll be getting my own place built soon with a workshop so watch this space!!! (hammer) (hammer) (hammer) 

Eoin


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## Benchwayze (18 Mar 2011)

eoinsgaff":r6ya0q1b said:


> John (Benchwayze), my bench is currently located in a bedroom of my uncles house where I stay from time to time. The house is old and needs to be heated almost all day to keep it dry. As this room is empty most of the time its not heated. This is compounded by the area. Its close to the sea so the climate is quite harsh. Everything rusts here. Almost over night. Its incredible. Anyway, I'm not in a position to treat the disease for now. Hopefully I'll be getting my own place built soon with a workshop so watch this space!!! (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)
> 
> Eoin



I empathise then Eoin.

I am lucky enough to have a metal door on the garage (Workshop I mean), which seems to act as a solar-panel. Facing due south, as it does, I just never have any problem with rust. Whatever time of year, the smallest amount of sunlight gets soaked up straight away. If SWIMBO would stand for it, I'd paint the door matt-black and improve it. So, I count myself fortunate. 

Cheers.

John :wink:


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## eoinsgaff (18 Mar 2011)

Steve ,
Firstly, John has answered the issue of the dovetails perfectly. 

My intension was to make a strong unit and I think it is exactly that. The main body is made from oak members that are 20 mm thick so this adds to the rigidity. I had initially intended to use MDF or ply as backing so I had made the rebates 10 mm square for this purpose. This was, as with your own requirements. to maximize the depth of the unit. A 10 mm groove would have probably required a further 10 mm of material outside of it. 

However, on advise from Rob (woodbloke) I decided to put in a frame and panel back. The frame pieces are just under 10 mm. In my opinion this would be too thin if the backer had more structural significance. 10 mm does not allow you to make a proper M+T joint and thus would not be able to resist or survive racking. I think!!! :? :? :? 

I intend to just tack the back panel in place and duct tape the joint from behind to seal it up airtight. As my 'shop' is temporary I don't have a clear plan for mounting the piece so for now I'm going to use a french cleat screwed onto the main, 20 mm, frame. I hope this will take to weight but for now I'm confident.

I hope this answers your questions. If I can be of any further help, just ask.

Regards

Eoin


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## Orcamesh (18 Mar 2011)

Thanks Eoin & John

Sorry I didn't see Rob's comments on the frame & panel suggestion. Now I've read all the comments about this it makes total sense, so thanks also to Rob!

So I will try to do the same now in Ash. 10mm rebate with 10mm thick frame having ~8mm T&G panels. The panels sitting in 4mm grooves in the frame. I will use the bridle joint for the frame corners as suggested by Rob, again using 4mm wide slots.

As for the dovetails, yes I agree, it makes perfect sense. I am not sure why Joyce & even Wearing's books show examples where the tails are in the top/bottom parts, but anyway. For this purpose as it will be wall mounted it is best to have them as you have done.

For fixing to the wall I am going to use an old router bit I've got which cuts a keyhole like this one
http://www.trend-uk.com/en/UK/product/35_0X1_4TC/4/117/keyhole_slotter.html

this way I can add as many anchor points as I need to hold it up!!

Anyway, thanks very much all and I must say I am very impressed with your work on your cabinet, it's looking great.

cheers
Steve


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## eoinsgaff (18 Mar 2011)

Thank you very much Steve. I think the 'keyhole' approach to supporting the unit is a great idea and will probably end up on the final arrangement.

Eoin


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## Benchwayze (18 Mar 2011)

Steve, 

Looking forward to seeing your ash cabinet. One of my fave timbers too. Should look the business when it's done. 
Be Happy and Lucky

John


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## woodbloke (19 Mar 2011)

If it's of any help to see what a half-decent back panel looks like: 







this is the back of a little elm chest that I did a few years ago. The carcass was made and the back rebate routed, with the corners then squared out...it's around 12mm deep but I reckon 10mm is about the thinnest you could get away with. The corner joints on the frame are hand cut bridles but could be Domino'd if you have one. Were I to do them again I'd use machine cut bridles instead. Each of the panels is around 8mm thick (I think) and is made from a bookmatched pair with a central muntin in the frame. I know that nobody will see it when the chest is against the wall, but if you're doing a decent piece, it gives piece of mind to know that the back panel is in keeping with the rest. If I'd use a piece of veneered ply it would have irritated me, but the overall visual effect would have been very similar - Rob


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## Benchwayze (19 Mar 2011)

That looks good enough to be the front Rob. I just thought you had forgotten to fix some pulls! 
Nice looking cabinet, especially in the wood, so to speak!

regards
John


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## Orcamesh (19 Mar 2011)

I'll start a WIP soon, at the moment I am still scratching my head though! Only a few boards part planed prepared (not final thickness yet) and which have been in stick since last October in the house. Anyway, progress will happen soon...

Rob, that elm chest of yours is amazing, I can only dream of being able to achieve this sort of standard. I have much to learn. But it certainly helps, so thanks for that. I will be machining most if not all of my joints as I have limited hand tools. I do have a few planes but no router planes or other specialist planes. I notice that your frame & muntin parts are quite wide, I am still dithering over how wide mine should be for an 800 wide by 500mm tall cabinet. Whatever I do, you will see the frame and panels from the glass side of the cabinet of course, so whatever I do it has to look good too! No pressure!

Eoin, glad the keyhole idea is of use. It is a great little router bit for making flush fitting wall mounted items. I have used it on numerous simple shelves.

John, I hope my Ash lives up to your expectations, time will tell!!

thanks all
Steve


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## woodbloke (19 Mar 2011)

Hawk Moth":2lnpl57j said:


> I notice that your frame & muntin parts are quite wide, I am still dithering over how wide mine should be for an 800 wide by 500mm tall cabinet. Whatever I do, you will see the frame and panels from the glass side of the cabinet of course, so whatever I do it has to look good too! No pressure!
> 
> thanks all
> Steve


 
Steve, it really doesn't matter as long as you have adequate gluing area in the joints. On a cabinet 800x500mm I guess anywhere between 45 and 65mm would do, depending on what material you've got...it's certainly not a critical feature and won't have any structural part to play in the finished piece, but if they're too narrow (say less than 40mm) it'll look a bit skinny when it's seen from the inside - Rob


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## Chems (20 Mar 2011)

woodbloke":3fdw526v said:


> If it's of any help to see what a half-decent back panel looks like:



I was looking at that; yes thats nice, thats the front, wheres the picture of the back then? =D>


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## eoinsgaff (20 Mar 2011)

Ha ha, exactly. It tool me a while to realize it was the back too

Eoin


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## woodbloke (20 Mar 2011)

eoinsgaff":2yvm6omy said:


> Ha ha, exactly. It tool me a while to realize it was the back too
> 
> Eoin


...the first pic _ was_ the back, this is the front:






just so there's no confusion :lol: :lol: - Rob


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## eoinsgaff (17 Apr 2011)

Nearly finished.





Just the glass front to attach when ready. On order.

Finally the cabinet filled for purpose. Just a space left for a LV LA Jack. At least thats the plan.






Eoin


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## woodbloke (17 Apr 2011)

Nice job done there...back panel looks good too =D> when viewed from the front - Rob


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## Orcamesh (18 Apr 2011)

Eoin, it's looking fantastic, lovely job. I feel absolutely no pressure whatsoever!! :shock: I don't think the timber I have for my panels are anywhere near as nice, but I'm sure my son won't mind!

What have you used for a finish?

Keep up the great work!
Steve


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## woodbloke (18 Apr 2011)

Orcamesh":1vcn1ufi said:


> I don't think the timber I have for my panels are anywhere near as nice
> Steve


If you've got thicker material that can be bookmatched it's surprising what you _thought_ an insignificant piece of timber will turn out like - Rob


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## eoinsgaff (19 Apr 2011)

Thanks lads, 

Must say I'm glad to be finished. The glass is proving a problem, not to get but I thought I had an agreed price of about €50 and I'm now being asked for over €100. The chances... 

Steve, the finish is three coats of danish oil on the oak and wax on both the oak and ash. Not ideal for this type of cabinet but about all I had the patience for. 

Now, whats going to be the next project?

Eoin.


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## woodbloke (20 Apr 2011)

eoinsgaff":21sfr7yo said:


> Now, whats going to be the next project?
> 
> Eoin.


Now that the plane cabinet is done n'dusted, how about something with a bit of subtle curvature? Straight and square is good, but putting some curves into a project ramps it up to the next level - Rob


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## Benchwayze (20 Apr 2011)

Hi Eoin, 

Is the cabinet open fronted? Or have I missed a picture somewhere of the doors/shutters or whatever you used to cover? 

John


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## Chems (20 Apr 2011)

Piece of glass is going in. 



> Just the glass front to attach when ready. On order.


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## Benchwayze (20 Apr 2011)

OK Thanks Chems...
I hope it's going to be one of Pilkington's floral patternS. To go with all that shiny jewellery inside :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Regards
John


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