# Chimney breast removal



## dedee (15 May 2007)

The chimney breasts in our house were moved on ground and first floor well before we moved in 11 years ago. Our survey back then found nothing wrong with the way the stack was supported in the loft, nor did our prospective buyers survey. 
They now want to have a look with a friend just to make sure.

The image shows how the stack is supported. The wooden beam is approx 6x2 and about 9 feet long sitting on at least 8 joists.
The chimneys are on a party wall and the breasts in the front of the house are still intact. House type is a 1930's brick built 3 bed semi.

Any comments on whether this arrangement is acceptable (to building standards etc) and/or the type of remedial work and costs involved would be welcome.







Andy


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## RogerS (15 May 2007)

Hi Andy

I can't comment re Building Regs but my take is that, given that their surveyor was happy, then they may be using it as an excuse to get you to drop the price. 

Roger


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## TonyW (15 May 2007)

Andy
Gone through something similar myself. Like Roger suggest the buyer may be using this as an excuse to try and get you to reduce price. 

If your buyer has had a proper survey done and this highlighted any concerns then surely they would have brought this to your attention. What qualifications does the "friend" have?

Not qualified to comment on Building Regs. but I am aware that over the years these seem to change. It may be that now an alternative method is recommended - however (IMHO) this does not necessarily mean that your house needs to be altered to reflect the new thinking. 

Good luck with your sale

Cheers  
Tony


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## dedee (15 May 2007)

Andy


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## Vormulac (16 May 2007)

Morning Andy,

I'm not clued up on regs in this department, but 6 years ago when we had the chimney breast removed in our 1930's brick built 3 bed semi, we were required to have the 'remains' of the stack supported in the loft space by a steel frame that was secured into the wall with lots of very serious bolts.
Of course that may just have been the preferred method of bolstering it for the particular council/builder/whoever, but it might be worth checking.

FFIW I can't believe that it isn't something a surveyor would check as a matter of some urgency, and if (s)he didn't flag it up, then it can't be an issue, surely?

V.


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## Adam (16 May 2007)

If they "announce" that they want a reduction as it needs fixing - hold tight! The fact they have bothered to negotiate means they clearly want your house - but are looking at ways to reduce the price. Just say, you've had "your builder mate" check and he says its fine, and that if they want some additional bracing for "confidence" then it wouldn't be expensive to install - despite what their "friend" says. 

If they claim their "freind" says it'll be thousands. Suggest they get some other quotes - but that given the surveys (yours and theirs) turned out acceptable - then you won't be standing the cost.

Alternative ploy - did it have building regs filled in when it was removed - if so, can your council dig out the certificate - just show them and say "it meets the regs in place at the time the work took place).

Adam


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## Jake (16 May 2007)

I'm not so sure, I don't like the look of that at all. It should (as someone else said) be supported on a gallows bracket off the wall, not resting on ceiling joists which weren't designed for the load.


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## lurker (16 May 2007)

About 5 months ago the old lady across the road from us, put her house on the market (her infirm husband was bed bound and she wanted to move to a bungalow).
Sold the house committed to a bungalow. 
Then it started, buyer was niggling about this that & the other, even though an independent survey (paid for by the buyer) had given the house a clean bill of health. 
Three weeks from exchange date my wife found old lady sobbing her eyes out, the buyer wanted to visit that evening to discuss some problems. I took down the sold sign and met the buyer at the old ladies door -told them she had instructed the Estate agent to put the house back on the market as she had been advised it was worth more than selling price.
I had a good idea how much the buyer had already spent on surveys etc. :twisted: :twisted: 

Worked a treat, exchange went fine. New neighbour glares at me every time I see her :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Adam (16 May 2007)

Jake":251w0mtf said:


> I'm not so sure, I don't like the look of that at all. It should (as someone else said) be supported on a gallows bracket off the wall, not resting on ceiling joists which weren't designed for the load.



I wasn't saying it didn't need upgrading. If you think you've been offered a fare price for the house "as-is" stick with it. People don't quit buying a house over say a few hundreds or even a thousand in remedial work - it has cost them more than that to reach this stage already.

Adam


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## Jake (16 May 2007)

Sorry, that wasn't really aimed at your post, just that the general tone of the thread seemed to be that it was just a ruse. As to who should pay for remedial work (if it needs doing, I'm no engineer), that's a totally different question, and a matter for negotiation. Can't argue with the buyer's wish to check it out though.


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## matt (16 May 2007)

I had a similar problem with a buyer once, albeit was in relation to a stud partition that I had removed rather than a chimney breast (in fact, it was not even a full wall - just a small full height side wall and an overhead section) . They wanted all sorts from me - money held in an escrow account for 5 years as security etc etc etc...

I told them to poke it. If they were that concerned I'd reinstate the structure including plasterboard and they could pay to have it plastered. 

They bought the place, no quibbles.


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## JFC (17 May 2007)

Gallows brackets are the way to go , i think you can buy them off the shelf from wicks , but i could be wrong . The brackets support two lintels and a fire proof board to seal off the chimney incase there are other flues using the same stack .


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## wizer (17 May 2007)

Jake":1e893esb said:


> Can't argue with the buyer's wish to check it out though.



Yes, I think you can. If their surveyor isn't concerned and they want it strengthened then it's down to them. Same as if you took on a house and didn't like the kitchen. In my book anyway.


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## Jake (17 May 2007)

Surveyors can be rubbish, ours missed all sorts of things. And a not-properly supported chimney is potentially fatal, unlike an unattractive kitchen.


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## dedee (17 May 2007)

Well, they came, they saw, they went away happy. Panic over.

The builder friend was aware that the existing support was not up to current regs. But then what part of a 80 year old house is? As far as he was concerned it was not about about to fall down.

Thanks for all the feedback it is much appreciated. I'm a pessimist and a cynic when it comes to house buying/estate agents/surveyors/solicitors but to be honest that is down to a bad experience on a leasehold flat, a much too longer story to relate here. 
Fingers crossed we should have the contracts tomorrow then the real panic will set in finding somewhere else to live as one can only spend so much time with the outlaws :lol: 

Andy


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