# Why so much variation in finish for elm furniture



## Leif (21 Oct 2013)

I've restored 4 items of furniture made wholly or partially from elm, stripping the original finish, and applying an oil based one and wax. I'm surprised at the huge variation in the wood. 

A chest of drawers finished with hardwax oil and wax is superb. The grain shows through, and the wood shimmers, and changes according to the angle of viewing. I see something similar in so called quilted maple guitar tops. A table finished with Danish Oil and wax is similar, with some nice knots that add character. And a round table finished with hardwax oil and wax has some nice figuring, albeit not quite so nice as the chest. These pieces are ~50 years old, and they were originally finished with nitrocellulose lacquer. 

But I also refinished a modern cabinet, maybe 10 years old, which was originally finished with acrylic lacquer. I refinished it with hardwax oil and wax. The result is flat. The wood has no depth, no shimmer, it's boring. 

Does anyone know why the cabinet should be so different? Is this the difference between English and imported elm? The cabinet will be imported elm. The others are English elm. Or is this something to do with the original finish, or the way the wood was prepared or cut? Brand new acrylic finished items from the same manufacturer also lack depth. Or is this a feature of age? 

I also see quite a wide variation in wood colour, ranging from a pale yellow brown to a reddish brown. These are all from the same manufacturer.


----------



## MMUK (21 Oct 2013)

I would imagine that the newer elm is "mass produced" so to speak. Like most of the timber you buy these days, it's grown too quickly and not left to mature properly.

For example, you can see the difference in T&G floorboards. The grain is much closer on older examples, say pre WWII, and is a much better quality.


----------



## blackrodd (21 Oct 2013)

Elm can be like that, among others. I think The no grain boring stuff tends to be mellower of the species, looks almost like sycamore, as opposed to the denser and better figure of the elm we're used to. In the 70's there was a fungus that bleached the elm, in stick. I have seen this when I bought a truck load of elm, oak and ash to renovate a barn for myself a while ago. regards Rodders


----------



## blackrodd (21 Oct 2013)

MMUK":2cy2u5lq said:


> I would imagine that the newer elm is "mass produced" so to speak. Like most of the timber you buy these days, it's grown too quickly and not left to mature properly.
> 
> For example, you can see the difference in T&G floorboards. The grain is much closer on older examples, say pre WWII, and is a much better quality.



I don't think you can compare a rapid growing species of softwood. to an elm! regards rodders


----------



## Chrispy (21 Oct 2013)

It looks like you have two different types of the wood, English Elm, Wych Elm, American grey Elm, American red Elm, and I'm guessing now but expect there is a Dutch Elm as well as others.


----------



## Leif (21 Oct 2013)

I assume the nicer items are pre Dutch elm, the chest is pre 1964. I think you are right, the cabinet wood seemed softer, less dense. It was definitely imported wood. Come to think of it, Nordic spruce is denser than English spruce because it grows more slowly. Perhaps imported elm is from Southern Europe. That might explain it.


----------



## Leif (21 Oct 2013)

Chrispy":1eaf1xkl said:


> It looks like you have two different types of the wood, English Elm, Wych Elm, American grey Elm, American red Elm, and I'm guessing now but expect there is a Dutch Elm as well as others.



Interesting point. The cabinet could be a different species or variety. They now use wood from America and Europe.


----------



## Cottonwood (21 Oct 2013)

Leif":gkv264xc said:


> But I also refinished a modern cabinet, maybe 10 years old, which was originally finished with acrylic lacquer. I refinished it with hardwax oil and wax. The result is flat. The wood has no depth, no shimmer, it's boring.


Why not have a go at a painted finish?
3 out of 4 cant be bad.... All species of wood (not just elm) varies a lot, depending on various things such as its growing conditions, was it a solitary tree such as a field oak with lots of branch growth, or a straighter one from within a deeper forest canopy, its age at felling, was it healthy, is it spalted etc, wether it was tended during its life (eg was it pollarded, were new growth side branches regularly trimmed off etc). I got some french elm which was as unispiring and insipid as beech. I have had other stuff that was like a jackson pollock painting, very wild. That is the wonderful (and sometimes frustrating) thing about wood, every single cubic inch of it is different and unique. We just have to accept it and get on with the next job....A couple of years ago I saw some hazel coppice which evidently hadnt been touched for _many_ decades, the poles were like 12 to 14 inches diameter instead of the usual 6 to 8 or less after 7 or 12 years rotation. They were bendy, curved, like huge wrought iron forgings, I'd like to get some of that.....


----------



## MMUK (21 Oct 2013)

blackrodd":pgquq5r1 said:


> MMUK":pgquq5r1 said:
> 
> 
> > I would imagine that the newer elm is "mass produced" so to speak. Like most of the timber you buy these days, it's grown too quickly and not left to mature properly.
> ...




It wasn't a comparison as such, more a way of making my point about mass production and it's effect on quality.


----------



## RogerS (22 Oct 2013)

Is there any figuring in the new stuff to begin with that a finish can emphasise?

I seem to remember reading that oil type finishes emphasise what figuring there is much better than a water based finish such as acrylic.

Might the older stuff have had a light stain applied first to emphasise any figuring?

The changes of shimmer depending on viewing angle is called chattoyance. Birds Eye Maple really shows that off.


----------



## Leif (22 Oct 2013)

Yes the new stuff has some figuring and grain, and the hardwax oil brings it out nicely. But there is no depth to the wood, no shimmer, it is very flat. This is a similar but later chest of drawers that someone else has refinished: 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Retro ... true&rt=nc

You can see what I mean by figure. Mine is nicer, and I used a light brown hardwax oil which I prefer. 

The items were made by Ercol, and being a mass production maker, they spray a stain (not dye) followed by acrylic (formerly nitrocellulose). I stripped back to the bare wood. It's hard to know how deep the original stain goes but I think I got it off. 

Anyway, thanks all. It looks like this is due to either wood from a different species of tree, or a different variety of Ulmus procera, or trees grown in a climate where they grow faster producing softer wood. In future I will stick to older items, from the 50's and 60's.


----------

