# Basic planes



## LarryS. (7 Feb 2008)

Hi,

I'm new to woodworking and have dived straight in with power tool purchases. Its become obvious that I need a couple of planes (one being a block plane) so can anyone recommend what I should get if only two planes and up to £100 to spend for the two ? Is second-hand the way to go ?

thanks


paul


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## WellsWood (8 Feb 2008)

Paul,
don't forget anything that is designed to cut will also require sharpening, so your budget will need to include this facility if you don't already have it. As a confirmed power tool user long before I came to appreciate the black art of handtools I know only too well how easy it is to overlook this.

As to your planes you're right to think block plane, it certainly is what I use most often. I love my Veritas low angle one, but the cheap and cheerful Stanley 102 gets used a hell of a lot for basic stuff like just easing corners, fitting back panels and the like. And I can toss it in the toolbox with impunity for out-of-the-workshop stuff, which I wouldn't dream of doing to the LV.
A smoother or jack plane (or both) should be aqcuired early on also. No need to spend lots at this stage, the lessons you'll learn making a cheap one cut well will stand you in better stead than going straight to Clifton or Lie Nielsen at this stage. DON'T buy secondhand from Ebay, there are some good planes to be had there but separating them from the piles of rubbish is an art all in itself, you'll likely have to buy 3 to get one worth fettling even. Good ones there rarely go for bargain prices anyway - it's not unheard of for s/h LNs to change hands for _more_ than the new price - go figure, as our US cousins say.
If you fancy older stuff you could do a lot worse than Ray Iles who does a nice line in s/h Stanleys with reground soles.

Careful on that slope though, it can *really* slippery :wink:


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## MrJay (8 Feb 2008)

Welcome to the slope. £100 will disappear rather quickly when buying planes. And there's plenty of junk out there not worth the money waiting to be gobbled up by the unwary. If you could up the budget considerably to one of them Veritas Bevel Up Low Angle bench planes you'd be sure of a top quality tool that is remarkably versatile and easy to live with (hand tools are normally highly specialised to specific jobs and require tweaking and training) I reckon they could be an ideal companion to power tools.

With block planes adjustable is the way to go. They're for tweaking things to fit and sometimes you need to take off a little stuff, sometimes rather a bit more. Again - Veritas will see you right, but not in your budget if you also want a bench plane or three. Stanley/Record do a similar low angle block plane - but the quality takes a dive into DIY land. After many years practice you'll work out what to look for in a good one and how to tweak it to make it go properly. They seem to go on ebay for £30 - £40.

Back to bench planes and trying to keep you in budget you can forgo (reluctantly, granted) the smoothing plane and use sand paper and a scrap for a sanding block or one of those new fangled random orbit thingies. You could go for a second hand Stanley Record Jack plane and swap the cutting iron for something made of proper cutting iron stuff and tweak it to do something useful (the Jack is intended as a rough tool and they tend to come machined suitably roughly). Lots of power tool users like a highly tuned #5 or #5 1/2 with a decent blade for cleaning up after power tools. The quality of pre 70s Stanley and Record planes is variable, which means there's at least a chance of picking up a good one - after you've lapped a few soles and tweaked some frogs and smoothed the edges you'll understand why getting a good pre 70s one is what you're after. (Getting one from Ray Iles as mentioned above will get you a good head start)

Or you could hit the car boot sales and buy a woodie. The advantage is that there are some stunning planes available for pennies or there abouts and you'll have change for sharpening stones and a pint. Again, the Jack is a rough plane - you want to look for one with a well fitting, decent bit of cutting iron and that doesn't fall apart. If the sole is rough and the mouth wide so much the better. The Trying plane (the big long one) would be the one you'd most likely use the most and a little more care is needed in the buying. You'll want to flatten the sole (easily done with a woodie) to get the trying plane to work properly, but in doing so you'll open the mouth slightly - you want a plane where the mouth is tight enough already to stand a little extra widening (ideally the mouth with the blade in and set is only a little bit wider than the shavings you want to take - about paper width on a trying plane) - failing that you can readily repair the mouth with an insert.


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## Philly (8 Feb 2008)

Paul
Some good advice there - one thing to remember is that you will never regret buying a good plane. And you'll never have to replace it!
So a decent block plane is a good place to start - Lie-Nielsen or Veritas make some great planes.
Hope this helps
Philly


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## MrJay (8 Feb 2008)

For that matter, I've heard Philly Planes aren't altogether shabby.


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## LarryS. (8 Feb 2008)

excellent info guys thanks, as ever a new area of Woodworking is opening up and looking much more complicated than i thought !  

I've got a bog-standard B&Q plane (think thats what a 'jack' plane is?) that by the sounds of things should be ok for now but with the addition of a low angle block plane, I'll do some digging to see the price comparison between stanley 102 and a veritas model

thanks again


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## Racers (8 Feb 2008)

Hi,

The B&Q plane is more correctly called a door stop, get an old Stanley or Record from a car boot sale. But I can recommend a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 very nice to use.

Pete


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## LarryS. (8 Feb 2008)

Racers":3fgcqlut said:


> Hi,
> 
> The B&Q plane is more correctly called a door stop, get an old Stanley or Record from a car boot sale. But I can recommend a Lie-Nielsen 60 1/2 very nice to use.
> 
> Pete



even if its made by stanley ??


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## Racers (8 Feb 2008)

Hi,

Yes, the accountants took over in the 70s and the quality went down hill.


Pete


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## Paul Chapman (8 Feb 2008)

It really is worth getting a good block plane. Work on stuff like hard wood end grain is very demanding and, in my experience, even an old, well fettled Stanley or Record will struggle. I have an old Stanley #60 1/2 which I've spent a lot of time on and it now works as well as it ever will, but it's not a patch on my Veritas low angle block plane. Currently, the two best block planes are the Veritas and Lie Nielsen low angle ones. They are streets ahead of anything Record or Stanley ever produced. They are heavy, have thick blades with good blade seating, can be adjusted very precisely, and the Veritas has a lovely Norris-type adjuster. My advice would be to get the Veritas or Lie Nielsen - a Stanley or Record (whatever age) will lead to nothing but frustration.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## frugal (8 Feb 2008)

Mighty_Genghis":371tyy24 said:


> I'm new to woodworking and have dived straight in with power tool purchases. Its become obvious that I need a couple of planes (one being a block plane) so can anyone recommend what I should get if only two planes and up to £100 to spend for the two ? Is second-hand the way to go ?



As you are in Bath, I can recommend a trip over to Bristol to visit Bristol Design. They have a huge range of second hand tools. You should be able to pick up a couple of planes and some sharping stones for under £100.


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## LarryS. (8 Feb 2008)

thanks for the tip, i'd never heard of them before, is it a shop or a manufacturer ?

thanks


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## Philly (8 Feb 2008)

Paul
Bristol Design is a shop AND manufacturer. They have a shop which sells all sorts of used tools as well as their own range of chisel and planes/plane body castings.
Well worth a visit (although smaller than you might imagine) and smells like a real toolshop should.
Best regards
Philly


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## digitalbot (11 Feb 2008)

I was going to post this very same topic. Look like some good advice here, as usual. Just got to find the money now. :?:


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## johnnyb (11 Feb 2008)

veritas make a reasonably priced "apron plane" same as a block but not quite the adjustment. may be worth considering. an older bailey pattern jack is not a bad investment. but the new blades are worthless. i have an older record spokeshave that never seems to go blunt, a lucky good un.


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## Oryxdesign (11 Feb 2008)

I think for a beginner you'll learn a lot fettling and tuning a cheap plane (not too cheap). If you go straight out and buy a LN you'll be too scared to play with it and try different things. Anyway after all that time fettling you'll get your money back on ebay and be able to make a more informed choice about what's right for you. That's where I'm at, standing on the edge of the slope with my hands in my pockets looking along way down.


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## Digit (11 Feb 2008)

That sounds good sense to me.

Roy.


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## Smudger (11 Feb 2008)

How about going to OldTools Co http://www.oldtools.co.uk/index.php
or the Old Tool Shop
http://www.theoldtoolshop.fsnet.co.uk/

or even Ray Iles,
http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/index.htm

all of whom have good quality Record and Stanley planes for sale. Ray Iles will even tune them up and sharpen them ready for use, and you are unlikely to pay much more than £35 - £45 for a No5. You then have comeback if all is not well, and the planes will have been assessed and handled by people who know about planes, unlike the broken, rusted wrecks advertised as 'rare' on eBay.


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## MrJay (12 Feb 2008)

The thing I soon learned from buying cheap old junk with a view to restoration is not to buy so much cheap old junk with a view to restoration.

I've not tried a plane from Ray Iles, but if he flattens the back of the cutting iron and puts the sole into fair shape then I reckon that has to be a better place to start from and _well_ worth the extra £10-£15 over the usual ebay prices.


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## Anonymous (12 Feb 2008)

Paul

The LN bronze apron plane is superb and many on here have one and love it. They are not too expensive either 

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Lie-Nielsen-Nos.-102-and-103-Block-Planes-20370.htm

and even cheaper iron

A very good first plane 


I love using hand planes more than any other tool (as is evident in this month's GWW :wink:  ). I use them alnost every time I am in the workshop.

Personally, after tuning loads of old planes for days at a time, I would not recommend this route to anyone. I want a tool to use, not one that I spend all my time trying to get it to work properly. Woodwork I enjoy, metalwork not so much.

Buy a LN or LV (or clifton) and use it out of the box - it will perform better the day it arrives then any 'tuned' Stanley or Record ever will.

This has been my experience with a dozen old staleys/record, one or two new stanleys and quite a few LNs and LVs and Cliftons, and I stand by it

PS I have now sold all my 'old' planes except the very first (sentimental reasons) and replaced them with LN/LV/Clifton and if I could turn back time, I wouldn't have wasted my time on those stanleys :wink:


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## lurker (12 Feb 2008)

Tony,

I don't believe you are being honest with yourself.

If someone ( when you started out) came along and said 

"Tony mate, unless you immediately shell out on £500 worth of planes & £200 worth of chisels you arer wasting your time even thinking about getting involved in serious woodwork"

You would have taken it up???

I wouldn't even risk £30 worth of decent plane iron until I was confident of being able to sharpen it correctly.

I've seen the same sort of (sorry about this!!) snobbery with fly fishing. People try to convince you unlesss you spend a fortune on kit you are wasting your time, and so folks are frightened off. Because I bothered to learn, I can out cast (using a $30 Walmart rod) an aquaintance who owns a £ 800 one. Sure I lust after his rod  but my £60 second hand (was the latest thing 7 years ago) is fine for me and if I break it then tough.


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## dunbarhamlin (12 Feb 2008)

If someone had given me a poke and said, "don't bother with those chisels, they're made of cheese," then I'd have saved a few bob, and a lot of time. 

But, had I followed advice to get a PoS plane, which can't tuned to a decent level especially without the skills to do it, I may well have baulked at the first hurdle.

Same as when learning the violin, the beginner doesn't need an Amati, but a China special will need replacing sooner than later, if it doesn't put them off for life.

Old, tatty, but sound is I think a better option _if_ they have access to a mentor. 
At least one ready fettled or premium tool is worth while so they can understand what can be achieved - but that's going to be miserable if the other tools they have _can't_ be brought up to snuff.

And heck, would have to really work at rendering a plane blade completely US.

Cheers
Steve


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## LarryS. (12 Feb 2008)

Tony,

Thanks for that advice, have to say I am sold. Just had a look on the axminster site though and they are out of stock. From all the advice I've seen I'm going to either go for a LN block plane or Veritas for a start, like you said I want to spend as much time possible woodworking and little time possible setting up tools when its not absolutely necessary - rather get in the ferrari and go driving than under the bonnet tuning a ford escort !

cheers

paul


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## Anonymous (12 Feb 2008)

lurker":3524gwbg said:


> "Tony mate, unless you immediately shell out on £500 worth of planes & £200 worth of chisels you are wasting your time even thinking about getting involved in serious woodwork"
> .



Why not take what I said completely out of context? :roll: I suggested spending *£50 *on one of the best planes around that will work from the box (after a 20 second hone).



The answer to your question is an emphatic yes, I am being completely honest with myself.

I do not consider Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley or Clifton planes expensive at all. I spent two days 'tuning' a Stanley #5 and I get paid more in two days at work than the equivalent LN would have cost, therefore tuning the old plane does not make economic sense to me.
Also, I would suggest a quick look on ebay, where Lie Nielsen planes often sell for more second hand, than they cost new :shock: , and those that 'lose' money usually sell for close to their original price; if you decide to kick the hobby, I would guess that you would recoup around 75-90% of the money spent on new LN/LV planes


My entire set of LN/LV/Cliffy planes cost me_ less _than many members spend on a single tablesaw or a planer thicknesser :shock: 

Or how about cigarettes? I have never smoked. I do know that many people smoke 30 a day at say £3.50(?) a pack. So, £147 per month to burn tobacco. LV LA smoother anyone? costs less than a month's smoking and lasts a lifetime.

How much do people spend in a night down the pub? I don't really drink much beer (prefer a bottle of red with a nice meal and some friends), but beer is pretty expensive these days. A month's visits to the pub = one more plane? :lol: :lol: 


There you go Lurker, I stand by what I said earlier, I do not consider these hand tools expensive. They last a lifetime, with a lifetime warranty. Worth every penny to me :wink:


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## digitalbot (12 Feb 2008)

Seen as the topic of planes has arisen, what do the number references mean on the planes. Is it something to do with the sole size?


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## Digit (12 Feb 2008)

If I'd had to spent that sort of money I sure as Hell would still be collecting stamps! 

Roy.


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## MrJay (12 Feb 2008)

Actually, if you don't mind I'm going to retract my advice about plane shopping and side with Philly. £100 will get you a block plane that'll work out the box and be easy to keep that way for the rest of your life. Bench planes are fussy, worry about them later.

digitalbot,
Yep, bench planes in the Stanley/Bailey tradition are typically numbered according to size; 1 being the smallest and 8 being biggest. Mostly it's in the length, but not always: a #5 1/2 differs from a #5 by being a bit wider. There are some oddities, like the Bedrock Bench Planes which use a variation of the numbering.

Planes 1 - 4 are intended for final smoothing, 5 and 6 are for rough work and fast stock removal while 7 and 8 are for getting things straight and true; though there's plenty of scope for variation and personal preference.

God might know the reasoning behind the numbering of Stanley's other planes, but I doubt it - ask him and see how long he takes to figure it out and get back to you.


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## bugbear (13 Feb 2008)

dunbarhamlin":bflrlxoe said:


> Old, tatty, but sound is I think a better option _if_ they have access to a mentor.



And these days, mentors abound on this very inter-web ;-)

BugBear


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## dunbarhamlin (13 Feb 2008)

bugbear":3oz4ey3p said:


> And these days, mentors abound on this very inter-web ;-)


Quite so, and input from your good self and others has been and continues to be invaluable to me. But as many operations and results can only be described qualitatively, getting someone in the flesh to demonstrate and then stand over you as you hone, saw, plane and pare can be a revelation, as whole banks of lightbulbs switch on: "Oo, press _that_ hard," "Ahh, so that's what ssssssnick sounds like..." etc.

Cheers
Steve


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## pobo (13 Feb 2008)

think i'm with tony on this one, i pretty new to the slippery slop. i bought a stanley two years ago and put me off completely then inherited my grandads record no.50 , a little better, then for christmas my wife bought me LN no.5 and it the pride and joy of my workshop, and not just because it make me look like i know what i'm doing. it the write size for taking down rough sawn timber,adjust the mouth and it almost long enough for a bit of jointing. Its taken me about a couple of weeks to get use to sharpening the blade and get use to setting up. it worked wounders now and glad i went for LN. looking for a low angle block plane next, thinking of LV. 

I not a hand tool purist either i think the right tool for the job is best. but using planes has given me a great understanding of then way wood works and needs to be worked. and taking rough saw down to planned ,with agood plane, is not as hard as you may think.

pete


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## frugal (13 Feb 2008)

Tony":3qjssyly said:


> I do not consider Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley or Clifton planes expensive at all. I spent two days 'tuning' a Stanley #5 and I get paid more in two days at work than the equivalent LN would have cost, therefore tuning the old plane does not make economic sense to me.



It all depends on how you want to bill your time. Yes, if you have to take two days unpaid leave to fix a plane, or miss a deadline by two days then it is more cost effective to go out and buy the better plane and not spend the two days. However if you are a hobbiest and arfe working in your free time with no deadlines then that two days does not cost anything.

I have a pair of no 4 and no 5 Stanley planes. Are they great planes? No. Are they good enough for the small pieces I work with? Just about as I also have a thicknesser. Am I going to upgrade them to better planes? Yes, as and when I figure out what I want to spend the money on. Are they top of my list? No, a decent set of sharpening stones and a guide are as there is no point spending £150 on a new plane if I can not sharpen the blade.

I am fairly certain that I need a block plane to square off boards, but I am not sure exactly what sort and I am quite happy to use the cheap planes I have for the moment to work out what it is I am missing.


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## Anonymous (13 Feb 2008)

frugal":2i8fj80k said:


> Tony":2i8fj80k said:
> 
> 
> > I do not consider Lie Nielsen, Lee Valley or Clifton planes expensive at all. I spent two days 'tuning' a Stanley #5 and I get paid more in two days at work than the equivalent LN would have cost, therefore tuning the old plane does not make economic sense to me.
> ...



I am a hobbiest and my day job is very far removed form woodwork, however, two days tuning a plane is two days wasted time when I can't do what I actually wanted to do - woodwork. It is very rare indeed that I get two full days in the workshop over a period of a month. 

I can only cost my time at the rate my employer pays me, and that rate it is cheaper to buy the LN.


Also, in my original post I forgot to include the cost of a new chip breaker and new blade for the old Stanley (popular upgrades during tuning). 
Thus, for the cost of a single day's wages, one can have a much better plane that works from the box (and has a warranty against defects - LN/LV will replace tools no questions asked if they are faulty in any way).


An example, I saw a Record #5 on the bay go for £30 (+£10 P&P)recently. A new chipbreaker (Clifton 2-piece) and Hock blade are around £45-50 when postage is included.
So, £85 and lets say 4-8 hours 'tuning' if it is a bit ropey.

Clifton #5 that works far better than the Record, and does so straight from the box costs £169 including P&P.


I suspect that many people 'tune' old planes because they simply want to 'tune' old planes, not to save money. You makes your choice and pays your money

Cheers

Tony

PS I do not understand why many people consider a LN/LV or Clifton plane expensive at £170 but a Xcalibre tablesaw fairly priced at over a grand :shock:


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## Racers (13 Feb 2008)

Hi, Tony

Most people would think twice at spending £170 on a plane, not everybody has that sort of cash to splash out on one item, people with large mortgages, kids and low paid jobs have trouble making ends meet. I showed people at work my Lie-Nelsen 60 ½ and they all thought it was nice but expensive, but they thought nothing of spending more on an Xbox!. Two days in the work shop fettling a plane is good problem solving time and all adds to your experience and motor skills. 

Pete


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## dunbarhamlin (13 Feb 2008)

Compared to days of yore, good quality hand tools are inexpensive.
But whether one can sensibly factor in tune up time when comparing new with old really does depend on available funds. 

The day's wages (compared to a week or more in times gone by) that a new tool may cost will for many already be ring fenced for more mundane requirements (food, lodging and so on) in which case free time can't be factored in to the cost if funds for a tool must be found.

I remember scrimping for a couple of months before hitting the button for a Clico #7 (and then feeling guilty,) but am contemplating several similar purchases this month alone - similar income then and now, but very different circumstances.

The priority has to be a functioning tool at the end of the day - either payed for in cash for an instant fix (Clico/LN/LV (trivial risk, significant outlay) or reputable supplier reconditioned oldie (some risk, moderate outlay) or with one's own time. The latter won't break the bank, but does have an inherent risk and new skillset to develop before putting edge to grain.

Since I can afford the quick fix, I like to support modern toolmakers when it's an option (I've only reconned one metal bench plane for myself - a Record T5.) But it's like organic food - not for everyone, whether by preference or pocket. 

Cheers
Steve


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## Oryxdesign (13 Feb 2008)

The priority has to be a functioning tool at the end of the day - either payed for in cash for an instant fix (Clico/LN/LV (trivial risk, significant outlay) or reputable supplier reconditioned oldie (some risk, moderate outlay) or with one's own time. The latter won't break the bank, but does have an inherent risk and new skillset to develop before putting edge to grain.

Since I can afford the quick fix, I like to support modern toolmakers when it's an option (I've only reconned one metal bench plane for myself - a Record T5.) But it's like organic food - not for everyone, whether by preference or pocket. 

Cheers
Steve[/quote

Nicely put


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## Chris Knight (13 Feb 2008)

As far as costing one's time is concerned, I think there is an argument for costing holiday and other "free" time in inverse proportion to the fraction of total time it represents.

Thus if I (say) have 2 weeks holiday in a 52 week year, my holiday time is worth 52/2 = 26 times my other time. 

Of course this is a gross simplification that makes no allowance for weekends, evenings etc. but accord it no monetary value is dead wrong in my view.


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## frugal (13 Feb 2008)

Tony":5xnnl5ro said:


> I suspect that many people 'tune' old planes because they simply want to 'tune' old planes, not to save money. You makes your choice and pays your money



I must confess that I bought the planes that I have because I did not know any better. Had I known then what I know now, I would probably have just bought a decent block plane and left it at that 




Tony":5xnnl5ro said:


> PS I do not understand why many people consider a LN/LV or Clifton plane expensive at £170 but a Xcalibre tablesaw fairly priced at over a grand :shock:



I think a lot of it is the law of diminishing returns and the perceived complexity of the product. People can look at a table saw and see the number of complex moving parts and see a reason why this £1,000 saw with a sliding table and super micro adjustable fence is worth more than this £500 saw with just a small aluminium table. But to a lot of people a plane is just a thing to hold a blade at a fixed angle and that a Clifton/LV/LN plane is just the same as a Stanley or Record, but made from more expensive materials to justify the higher cost.

Personally I would like to try the different planes and see how they work for me, so I will probably try to get to one of the Axminster or Yandles events this summer if possible.

Plus having a leaking garage roof in the old house that ruined a lot of tools I would feel really guilty if I let a LV/LN work of art get spoiled. 

I still am waiting to see what this years bonus is like to see if I can afford the £140 to repair the bandsaw never mind buy new tools


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## bugbear (14 Feb 2008)

waterhead37":6anwagep said:


> As far as costing one's time is concerned, I think there is an argument for costing holiday and other "free" time in inverse proportion to the fraction of total time it represents.
> 
> Thus if I (say) have 2 weeks holiday in a 52 week year, my holiday time is worth 52/2 = 26 times my other time.
> 
> Of course this is a gross simplification that makes no allowance for weekends, evenings etc. but accord it no monetary value is dead wrong in my view.



Of course, in the case of many other hobbies this time/money argument is meaningless. Nobody tries to save money by playing golf, football, etc.

Assuming one is a _hobby_ woodworker, surely the consideration is total expenditure divided by total enjoyment (howsoever measured)? 

I happen to be lucky - I simply enjoy being creative in my workshop, and make no distinction between household tasks, metalwork, woodwork or tool restoration.

BugBear


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## johnnyb (16 Feb 2008)

i think that beginners should start at the beginning and usually that involves buying older tools and making them work. to skip this stage completely is to miss a stage that is informative in itself. metalworking and wood working are brothers in arms. to imagine that it is possible to buy any tool and not have to spend time fettling and setting up is wrong at all levels. and the adjustment has to occur throughout the items lifetime. to skip this stage is to skip the realisation that adjustment is a constant necessity for accurate working. for me anyway this occured at a very young age trying and failing to sharpen a chinese chisel and wondering why? its a chisel why wont it sharpen. then i tried to harden and temper it using instructions from the metalworking section of the same book that recommended i buy a chisel.... still no joy. i then realised that the tool was low carbon steel and would never become sharp, but how much did i learn from this piece of junk.


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## Oryxdesign (16 Feb 2008)

johnnyb":jpmkm497 said:


> i think that beginners should start at the beginning and usually that involves buying older tools and making them work. to skip this stage completely is to miss a stage that is informative in itself. metalworking and wood working are brothers in arms. to imagine that it is possible to buy any tool and not have to spend time fettling and setting up is wrong at all levels. and the adjustment has to occur throughout the items lifetime. to skip this stage is to skip the realisation that adjustment is a constant necessity for accurate working. for me anyway this occured at a very young age trying and failing to sharpen a chinese chisel and wondering why? its a chisel why wont it sharpen. then i tried to harden and temper it using instructions from the metalworking section of the same book that recommended i buy a chisel.... still no joy. i then realised that the tool was low carbon steel and would never become sharp, but how much did i learn from this piece of junk.



This was my point entirely, it is also better to learn on a cheaper tool that you are not scared to try stuff on than an expensive one you are scared to ruin. I was about to start buying some better planes but this thread has actually put me off. I have a stanley 9 1/2 that I have probably spent hours on over the last 15 years and it cuts well, I think. I'm sure I could select my plane out of a whole bunch of others and I used to it. I am curious about how good a LN or veritas version is but now only curious.


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## head clansman (16 Feb 2008)

Hi Paul

First Paul welcome to the forum 

From your own words (I'm a beginner) and my budget is (100) .

You have a very large learning curve in front of you maybe in say a yrs time you'll no longer enjoy messing about with wood spend the type of money others are mentioning wow that's going to be some loss. 

As the old saying go's walk before you run, take this time now to learn not only how to use your planes but also how to sharpen them properly remember a plane is only as good as the guy using it , if you don't know how to sharpen it properly etc.

As for the comments about Stanley bailey planes well that up to the individual choice . I have used Stanley bailey from no 6 right the way down to number 2 all my working life and now retired I am still using them. 

There's nothing wrong with buying second hand from anywhere its your choice I myself have bought some bloody good Stanley bailey from eBay . As for buying tools from B/Q its a diy store aim higher go to reputable tool shop or buy the old tools second hand a far better quality steel in them, by doing this your going through that learning curve. it all trial and error, along the way you'll make some good choices and maybe some not so good choices. 

When I was starting my apprenticeship we all usually started with a Stanley bailey no 5 and a no 4 when you started to improve and you were given bigger job by your master then you would buy a bigger plane , a bloke plane and a rebate plane etc as your work improved so 
your tool kit got bigger as you went through that learning curve good luck to you 

Any way hope this may be of some help to you it's only my thoughts hope you appreciate them


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## Digit (16 Feb 2008)

I remember as a member of a photographic club people buying more and more expensive cameras. Didn't seem to improve their pictures much.
An expensive tool that you don't know how to use is likely to be a waste of money, if you haven't yet learned how to sharpen a plane iron all the money in the world isn't going to make it cut.
Horses for courses I think.

Roy.


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## Anonymous (17 Feb 2008)

If you want evidence of why LNs are worth the money

Check here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22355&highlight=

Use it for a few years, then get your money back :wink:

With a few days left, it is going for £8 + postage more than a new one :roll: 

I think my case is made - no work required to make them perform outstandingly good, have the pleasure of using a tool where quality is all that counts during design and manufacture, then sell them for as much as you paid (or more :shock: )


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## head clansman (17 Feb 2008)

Hi tony 

Err sorry your theory don't hold water that formula applies to any type of good quality tools bought and sold on a few yrs later . Seeing prices are constantly increasing. My tool chests are full of tools that i only paid a fraction of the prices there being sold for now if sold now would fetch quite considerable more.


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## MrJay (17 Feb 2008)

You missed the point. Tony is saying that premium tools _aren't at a disadvantage_ from initial outlay vs depreciation as they hold their value. _Their advantage_ is that they sing straight from the box and don't need endless fettling. Restoring an old plane is nice once in a while, but it's hardly a suitable first project; especially when great quality hand tools are readily available from the shops - that right of passage stuff sounds like folly to me. I'd love to have all that time back that I spent cluelessly trying to flatten plane irons and soles when I first started getting into hand tools.


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## Digit (17 Feb 2008)

Personally, with a limited budget, I'd spend on good quality sharpening gear, as I said earlier, if you can't sharpen properly what you paid for the plane, chisel, drill bit etc is irrelevant. 

Roy.


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## frugal (11 Mar 2008)

Tony":2upvgi2w said:


> Paul
> 
> The LN bronze apron plane is superb and many on here have one and love it. They are not too expensive either
> 
> ...




Based on this thread and your recomendation I ordered a 102, and out of the box it was taking shavings of 1 thou[1], rather than the 4 thou my Stanlely plane takes (even after fiddling with it and sharpening it). I have only had a little time to play with it, but it does seem to be a wonderful piece of engineering.

[1] A Pair of digital calipers might have accidently fallen into the shopping cart along with the plane and a few other bits. Good job my wife is even more of a gadget junky than I am


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## Anonymous (11 Mar 2008)

Gald you like it Fruagl - enjoy the gleam you get off the wood and burn the sandpaper :lol: :lol: :wink:


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## frugal (11 Mar 2008)

Tony":3nfg8xgi said:


> Gald you like it Fruagl - enjoy the gleam you get off the wood and burn the sandpaper :lol: :lol: :wink:



Admittedly my wife ended up coming out to the workshop at 11pm to remind me that I had to get up early for work  I was too busy rooting through bits of wood to put shiny edges on, and trying to make up little jigs to help with sharpening.


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## DaveL (12 Mar 2008)

frugal":1cwq2eoj said:


> Admittedly my wife ended up coming out to the workshop at 11pm to remind me that I had to get up early for work  I was too busy rooting through bits of wood to put shiny edges on, and trying to make up little jigs to help with sharpening.


*The Slope TM* has you in its grasp, there is no turning back now. :shock: :wink:
Good planes and sharp edges are a joy to use, have fun.


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