# Steve's workshop - Painting the outside walls



## Steve Maskery

I've finally thrown off the cloak of lethargy and put on the mantle of let's get on with it.

The derelict shack at the bottom of the garden has half the roof it had this morning. I should be able to get the rest off tomorrow, but I am too knackered to do any more today.

I'm going to keep the roof panels for the time being, as I have some stuff to keep sheltered outside, but in the fullness of time I should have some steel roof panels in pretty decent condition up for grabs if anyone is interested.

In the meantime does anyone want a dirty great big RSJ? It's free for the taking. Of course, there is no such thing as a free RSJ, you would have to come and help take it down (I've worked out how that can be done safely - jack up one end, remove a course of block, lower it down. Repeat at the other end and walk it down). The really hard part is getting it to the road. There is no proper vehicular access to the back and the RSJ is big. Really big. I mean, you might think it's a long way down to the shops, but that is nothing compared with the distance from one end of this RSJ to the other.

It measures 7.6m long x 400mm high x 140mm wide. I beam. It's actually two sections plated and welded in the middle. Somebody somewhere must be able to use it. If not I'll have to cut it up (ha-ha) and weigh it in. Must be worth a bob or two in scrap, but it's hassle I do not want.

I'll put an ad in the For Sale forum and start a Build thread when I get some pictures.
S

Edit: Some pics:


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## Grahamshed

And just to add to your hassles......
don't forget everybody here wants to see a WIP video


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## Steve Maskery

I'd love to, Graham, but it is such a lot of work, and trying to do that while actually building as well, I just don't think I can do it.


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## carlb40

Steve Maskery":4770zi9y said:


> I'd love to, Graham, but it is such a lot of work, and trying to do that while actually building as well, I just don't think I can do it.


Camera on a tripod tethered to a laptop to give almost unlimited storage. :mrgreen: 

Looking good, will be following with interest.


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## jimmy rivers

Live Webcam?


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## Shrubby

Steve good to see you start on your new place 
You've got a good camera position high up in the house - could you shoot several stills a day and make a Time-lapse film out of them
Matt


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## Peter Sefton

Shrubby":2vzbh4jm said:


> Steve good to see you start on your new place
> You've got a good camera position high up in the house - could you shoot several stills a day and make a Time-lapse film out of them
> Matt



Your new neighbours would love you, good luck with the new build. Did you get the SIP's sorted out.
Good to see the new project underway cheers Peter


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## Steve Maskery

Peter Sefton":28uuz708 said:


> Did you get the SIP's sorted out.



Ah. The SIPs. Hmm.

The company in Liverpool who quoted me don't want to talk to me. I have no idea why. I have emailed, phone and got an answering machine, phoned and talked to the sales woman. Phoned and talked to the receptionist who told me that said woman was in a meeting but hadn't forgotten me and would ring back. That was 4 weeks ago. They know I have PP and want to order, and yet there is silence.

So I've been to another company, but despite being given the same drawings, their quote is 3x the dozy scouser's (and I'm not tarring all Liverpuddlians with the same brush. I've seen Ken Dodd live).

So I've bought a book about American building techniques and hope to build a New England style 'shop. It will be 4x2's and lots of insulation.

The base is going to be a bit of a problem. I need to centre up the new build and that means extending the existing concrete base. But the bit in front of the double doors slopes up towards the house. I've either got to raise the rest of the base to the highest point (I could use the breeze blocks as infill, I think) or dig up the sloping concrete and re-lay it to match the main area. Any thoughts on that would be welcome.

I did actually get on top of the roof today, but I'm not dead keen on heights anyway and I'm absolutely terrified of falling again. I spent last summer with a knee brace and on crutches. I'm not yet back to where I was 12 months ago and I don't suppose I ever shall be. According to the surgeon I did ten years worth of damage in that one second fall. So whilst I am fine when I'm up there, getting from the ladder onto the flat roof (goodness knows what it will be like with the new one - it's pitched) is very challenging. And kneeling is crippling. Right now this minute my knee is throbbing. So all in all it is not nice.

Frankly this whole project is very, very daunting. I didn't expect to be starting again from scratch at this stage in life. But I have to be positive. I do like my new house (I now have the poshest bathroom on the street), but as you can probably tell from the pics, it's not a very salubrious area. So spending a lot of money on it is a risk. But a man needs a workshop doesn't he?

Thank you all for your encouragement. I do need it and I am very grateful for it. Mind you, I don't think many of you understand how much work is involved in filming.....

S
xxx


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## Cowboy _Builder

Hi Steve ,
I'll ask my mate tomorrow if he wants the RSJ ,and i'll let you know ASAP ....he lives in Kirkby .
If you want any building advice let me know always happy to help, i'm only 10 mins away .

Ps ...The fact that you have a bathroom makes it the poshest on the street after all it is Kirkby , most still have a tin bath hanging on the back of " Coal house " door .


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## Racers

Steve, if you need a hand just shout.

Pete


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## xy mosian

Steve, I realise just how difficult it can be to 'Get off your Backside'. Well done, steady away.
xy


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## NickWelford

Perhaps instead of a workshop open day, you should have a workshop building day. A gang of us could descend and do a lot of work in a day......


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## Steve Maskery

Oh it's on the agenda Nick, it's on the agenda. I've had a few offers of help and I intend to call them all in!
Can I add you to the list?


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## Baldhead

Steve sorry I'm to far away to help and with my back all I could do would be make the tea! but I wish you all the best and I look forward to a 'tour' of your new workshop on YouTube.

Baldhead


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## NickWelford

Steve Maskery":1yh3vm23 said:


> Oh it's on the agenda Nick, it's on the agenda. I've had a few offers of help and I intend to call them all in!
> Can I add you to the list?


Depending on which day it is, I work Saturdays, Mondays and the odd other days.


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## custard

Congratulations Steve, that'll be a formidable workshop when it's done.


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## Steve Maskery

This morning didn't happen for me, but this afternoon I've removed the rest of the roof and a couple of joists. They are proving quite problematic, they are nailed together with 6" nails. I think I shall have to cut them out. Trouble is, I'd like to reuse the timber, either for concrete shuttering or to make a firewood store.
I used to have a proper crowbar but, well, you know. I think I may have to go shopping tomorrow.
The blocks, on the other hand just fall off. I'm going to have to be careful that the shack doesn't just fall down, it really is very damaged.




S


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## carlb40

Maybe hire a recip saw to cut the nails?


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## n0legs

Keep at it Steve you're getting there.
Use your head with that blockwork ](*,) ](*,) :lol:


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## brianhabby

Nice to see things are moving forward Steve. I have to create a new workshop this year so will be keeping an eye on your progress. Mine will be tiny by comparison to yours though 

regards 

Brian


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## Racers

Steve, I have crow bars nail pullers etc, pop round if you need them.

Pete


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## Steve Maskery

Thank you, thank you.

Pete, thank you, but I probably need to do this tomorrow, before the whole lot falls down. I guess you are at work tomorrow?

S


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## Benchwayze

Hi Steve, 

Glad to hear you have your Mo-Jo back again. I''d love to help, but like Baldhead, I ain't much use with that sort of heavy work, and I'm also a bit remote. But I wish you all the best, and listen... Whatever you run up against, I'm sure you'll triumph in the end. You still have twice the space I have; and it looks like you have the basics of a grand workshop,. Looking forward to seeing the finished result. 


Regards.


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## Racers

Steve Maskery":1k67hjtw said:


> Thank you, thank you.
> 
> Pete, thank you, but I probably need to do this tomorrow, before the whole lot falls down. I guess you are at work tomorrow?
> 
> S



Yes I am Steve, I didn't see your reply last night or I would have got them out for you to pick up.

Pete


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## MMUK

If I was a bit closer, you'd be welcome to borrow my Acro props to shore up the I beam. Don't want it falling of it's own accord.....


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## Steve Maskery

What an excellent day!
Phone went at 10. My friends Chris and Ray wanted to know if they could come round and have a look. Sure, says I. Ray is an engineer and has a lot of building experience, so they turned up with some tables of data concerning loads and what have you.

However, they also came armed with safety boots, overalls and enthusiasm, and all I had to do was provide lunch. Fortunately I had some home-made soup in the freezer and it doesn't take long to knock up a swiss roll, especially when you have a jar of excellent Racers Mad Jam in the cupboard. But it doesn't last long.






So Chris chopped up some ivy and other triffids whilst Ray and I got cracking. Actually it's already very cracked and we had to try to avoid unplanned collapses. These blocks were just taken off by hand, we only had to tickle them to get them off. But we got more done in an afternoon than I would have managed in the whole week. So much more enjoyable.










The littlest sweeper-upper with the biggest brush you ever did see!

Furthermore, Ray made a slip-up, by saying "Next time I'll bring my recip saw..." Gotcha! There was a witness. So the Ibeam should be coming down on Thursday, though I'm not sure what is going to happen to it after that, yet. All I have to do is provide dinner. So tomorrow I'm going to make Chorizo and Chickpea soup (sounds odd but has 80-odd 5-star ratings) for lunch, Shepherd's Pie and a creamy amaretto fool thingy (creme fraiche and fromage frais, amaretti biscuits soaked in amaretto and some blueberries or raspberries, whatever is on the shelves tomorrow) for dinner and I shall enjoy the lot.

So the rest of the roof beams are down, the door lintel and the catnic over the window and a couple of dozen loose blocks. You can't see from this pic, but there is a pier of blocks under the RH end of the beam. We can use that to lower the beam, we just have to build one at the LH end first.




Ooh, I feel good.


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## No skills

Good for you Steve. Keep pictures coming.


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## Racers

Nice one Steve.

Looks like you will be needing an other pot of jam!

Pete


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## billybuntus

Nice work. I love that job satisfaction feeling. Especially when it's something worth doing for yourself.


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## heimlaga

If you lived in my area I would surely take that I beam off for free. It would be very useful and not too difficult to retrieve it seems.

If there is a reasonably straight access path that in more than 2 foot wide it could be hauled to the roadside using a tractor with a logging winch standing on the road. By using blocks achored at suitable points one could easily haul the beam around some curves as well. Just like I do every time I haul out a log from a bouldery hillside. Then the beam could be loaded onto a log trailer and transported away behind the same tractor. 

Unfortunately you live in that almost treeless island where you might have a hard time finding a scrounger who owns a tractor with logging winch and log trailer...... around here you would end up in mindst of a battle over who was the first taker of the beam........

Good Luck!


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## Peter Sefton

I am so pleased to be a furniture maker over the winter months but on days like today the urge to get outside knocking things down is very strong. Looks like you are making great progress, it's so much more fun when two or three people get together.
Even better when you have cake to work for, good to see it all moving on.
Cheers Peter


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## Steve Maskery

Phew! I have aches on my aches.

Ray and Chris came again today, and more progress has been made.

We built another pier of blocks so we had one at each end, then tipped the beam over n to its side so that it was more stable. Then, with a 10-tonne hydraulic jack, we walked it down a couple of inches at a time. Not intrinsically difficult, but obviously we had to be careful that things didn't misbehave. There was one heart-stopping moment when it wobbled when we didn't want it to, but it is now only 4 feet off the ground.

When we had finished, Ray said, "Well that's a new one for me, I've never taken a girder down before!". Now he tells me! He has, however, put plenty up, he worked in the mining industry.

If it all sounds straightforward, it was, but we started at about 11am and finished at 6.30, stopping only for a bowl of soup. We are all knackered.

I'm still not sure what is happening with the girder, but if no-one takes it we'll saw it up and the scrap man can have it. It's a shame, if someone can use it, but one way or another it has to go.

I'm not sure that the HSE would approve, but here are some pics. (I do wear safety boots, glasses and hard hat, BTW).




































You'll notice that along the way some more vegetation has gone. I'm not looking forward to digging out the roots, mind.

We've also discovered that the floor slopes from far right to front left, which is about an inch lower. Just one more thing to take into account when I build.

I'm really glad that Ray and Cris have mucked in, and I know that now they have started, they will see it through with me. Ray has a lifetime's experience of things of which I have but a vague theoretical awareness. Top pair.


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## Benchwayze

If you have to scrap the RSJ, I would tell the scrappies that they can have it if THEY saw it up! They'll probably have cutting gear! 

I remember hack-sawing a 4.5 inch RSJ, in order to make it fit across my lounge. I did it, but it took and age, three hacksaw blades and a quarter tin of cutting paste! 

The job looks to be progressing nicely Steve. It's going to be fine. 

John


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## Steve Maskery

Well it doesn't look much different today, I'll grant you, but we have achieved quite a lot. Done a lot of talking and planning. Surveyed the existing floor...





The highest point of the existing concrete is the point nearest the house in front of the garage double door. That is a couple of metres this side of the existing building. If we take that as Zero then the far LH is the lowest at -150mm, the LH corner of the double doorway is -112mm the front RH corner is -105 and the far RH corner is -85mm. So it is far from level! But we don't need to fill the whole lot in with concrete, we can build a rim foundation, then fill the interior with the blocks, then screed over. There is about 10" concrete visible at the LH end already, so I don't think I shall be short of support...

We've also taken down some more blocks along the front and sides.






There is some broken glass dumped down the RH side of the building. I went to pick it up yesterday and discovered there is loads of it. I think someone has dumped a greenhouse there. It's not going to be much fun clearing that lot up  Fortunately the tip is only a couple of streets away. I do live in a very posh area you know.

The girder will be gone by noon tomorrow, I hope.


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## Tony Spear

Nothing from Steve since Sunday - do you think he's trapped under that RSJ?


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## Cowboy _Builder

I saw him yesterday when I took my big Hilti breaker round for him to play with , he was ok then , he might be outside giving it some of this (hammer) playing at demolition man .
The RSJ has gone .


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## Steve Maskery

I'm still here guys, and in one piece.
As CB says, the RSJ went on Monday. I have some pics but they are still in the camera. 
The weather forecast for today was not good (as it happens it has been perfect weather for working outside), so I arranged to do other stuff, helping a friend to "just" (see another thread) make some crates. Two are glued up and there is another to go. The MDF was cut up by B&Q and none of it fitted together, so we've had to re-dimension everything. It's taken all day.

Ray's coming over again tomorrow, so I'm hoping we will have the thing razed by close of play.

My book on American construction techniques has come today, so I have some reading to do.
S


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## Steve Maskery

Good day, although there is not a lot to show for it, photographically.

First some pics of the disappearing RSJ:















That was Monday. Rather them than me. I was pleased that they restacked all the blocks they had taken down to use as supports. They were considerate guys. One of them even had steel toes on.

I then spent a couple of days doing stuff for other people. That's not a whinge, you understand, lots of people have been very kind to me and Ray is working like a trojan, it's just that it has held me up a bit. But what goes around comes around, eh?

So today I thought we would finish the demolition, but the problem is that we are running out of space to stack the blocks, so we have decided to hold fire on any more knocking down for the present.

Instead we have concentrated on working out exactly what we are going to do about foundations. The existing slab is substantial, 10" at the LH end that we can see and 6" at the front, we have revealed today. There was more concrete under the grass at the front and we have cleaned out the edge so we can see what we have. It just so happens that the front wall line of my new place is going to fall exactly on the front edge of the existing slab, and that is also the highest point of the existing concrete. Very convenient. So we set a block at the highest point and went round with a 6ft spirit level:








Those two are the same height as the datum block, so you can see how much we have to make up. Over 6"

It might help to have a site plan. This is a sketch, it's not to scale, but it shows what's happening.





The red rectangle is the existing shack, hard on the boundary at the left and only about 250mm from the rear boundary, which is not fenced at the mo.

The green square is my new sanctum sanctorum.

The dark blue is existing concrete, the X-area is to be removed because it is too high.

The light blue is new concrete to be laid, at the levels of the existing slab.

The orange is a new path which will actually go the full width (not only as shown), but I'll use slabs and do it after everything else. We can have a French gravel drain all along the front of the building and then the slab path, canted away from the building.

The grey is the existing path back to the house. I think this all means that there will be a small step down from that path to the path along the front of the workshop.

So this is the cunning plan. Dig out for the new concrete. This means removing a rubbish dump to the right of the building. I've made 3 trips to the tip today to get rid of broken glass and I haven't finished yet.




We can lay the RH area so that it falls an inch away from the building. That means all the concrete around the edge will shed properly. The X-area slopes towards the building, which is why we are removing it.

Then we will build a perimeter wall, which will vary in height from just a bed of mortar along the front edge up to a good 6" along the back. This will be our level. We can then fill this area with crushed blocks (which is why we don't need to knock any more down for the time being) and pour a 2" screed. We will then have a level slab 2" or so above the front edge of the existing slab.

Then we lay a sole plate all the way round and build up from that.

Easy-peasy.....

The existing slab will provide the access path to the left and rear of the building and it will all shed away from the new one.

People round here are keen recyclers. I've had two neighbours ask me what I'm doing with the steel roofing sheets (answer - NDN is having a few and I'm keeping a few to make a firewood store) and another two have asked if they can have any of the blocks. So I'm not going to have any trouble getting rid of stuff. And in the same vein I spotted some new 1.5" waste pipe in a neighbour's front garden today amongst an old bathroom suite they had pulled out. A knock on the front door and 2 minutes later they were mine. We can lay them in the slab as conduits for water and power.

Off for a bath.
S


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## paulm

That's a monster RSJ Steve !!! Hadn't appreciated the size before, though of course they could just be very small people 

The plans all look and sound very good. You'll have a lovely set up when it's all done, great to see it develop.

Cheers, Paul


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## Halo Jones

Hi Steve,



> We can lay them in the slab as conduits for water and power



Please be careful what you do here. I may be wrong but from my adventures at "planning ahead" I laid some conduit to pull my swa and water through. They need to separated by I think 750 mm and having a conduit may change the rating of your swa (apparently there is a difference in voltage drop and resistance in cable laid in a conduit and cable laid direct into the ground). Also cat5 and telephone wire cannot go in the same conduit as your high voltage cable.

This info is, of course, from an interested amateur (ie, not really qualified to give any concrete advice!). But hopefully food for thought.

H.


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## Steve Maskery

Hi Halo
Thanks for that. I am aware of the Cat5 regs, I used to be a Cat5 installer, done thousands of them, but I wasn't aware of the water. As it happens, I plan to bring them in at opposite corners anyway. I'm not quite sure where my sources are at the present. I don't want to have to carry them down all the way from the house as I already have both power and water to the log cabin. It would make much more sense to tap off from there. Otherwise I have to dig up my patio and somehow get across my conservatory. Don't want to do that. But although I do know where they leave the house (nowhere near 750mm apart) I don't know where they enter the cabin. I'll have to have a little expedition.

The conduit will be just to create holes in the perimeter concrete, I'm not laying metres of the stuff.

I've not yet decided what to do about Cat5. It's jolly useful, of course, but my internet access point is at the front of the house, so I'd have to get to the back first and then down the garden. I think I prefer to find a wireless route. Eric the Viking has suggested some sort of magic box that will extend the range of my wireless signal. If the worst comes to the worst I can continue to use my mobile phone as a WAP. It's not the same speed, of course, and it drains the battery something rotten but I managed with nothing else for a year, so I don't think it will be too awful.

The more compelling reason to fit a cable, though, is for the alarm. It's quite a way from the house, so I'd like it to go off in the house rather than just down the garden. We'll see.


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## Racers

I would run at least 4 Cat6 cables then you can use them for anything Phone, Data, Alarm, intercom (how are you going to here the front door bell?) etc.

Pete


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## Steve Maskery

It's a good point, Pete, it's just the logistics of it. If it were just a matter of digging a trench in soil, then it would be a no-brainer, I agree, but it is a huge obstacle course from where it is now to where it needs to go.
But yes, if I ever decide to do live internet broadcasting then I wouldn't want to do that wirelessly.


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## Random Orbital Bob

Cable can travel above ground too...don't know if an aerial solution might be feasible?


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## Racers

Can you do a run from the conservatory to the workshop? getting some where in to the house would be a start.
You can get outdoor cat6 cable.

Pete


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## Steve Maskery

Getting to the conservatory would not be impossible, though it means lifting patio blocks or tacking it around walls. But the floors in the house are solid, I think, the conservatory and hall have marble tiles down and I'm not going to disturb them, so I'd have to get diagonally across the house from SW corner to NW corner, or at least somewhere on the North wall.

I could just leave an access conduit in the workshop base and then worry about it if and when it becomes a necessity. Maybe the time will come when wireless technology will make cables totally redundant. There is good line of sight between the house and the workshop.

Anyway, I should be out there digging, not sitting here typing! 
S


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## Racers

Home plugs will get you out to the conservatory then onwards to the workshop.

Pete


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## loftyhermes

Racers":3qcxt1ud said:


> Home plugs will get you out to the conservatory then onwards to the workshop.
> 
> Pete


I was going to suggest these as well, the ones I've just fitted to connect the TV to the router work great and they reckon they will work up to 300m.
TP-LINK TL-PA411KIT AV500 500 Mbps Powerline Adapter Starter Kit £24.99 from Currys.
Steve


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## Benchwayze

I searched these plugs, but I'm not much the wiser about their capabilities. Am I to understand that I could use my TV as a PC monitor; using one of these plugs/devices?


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## Alexam

Hi John,

This will explain it for you http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/networkin ... 3-pdt.html

I have had a couple of these for a while so that my signal strength from my office, at the front of the house, will reach my rear conservatory at the opposite corner at full strength and enableme to use my iPad Wi-Fi, when before there was little or no signal strength. Altough I have not done it, it would also allowme to link my signal to my TV.

Alex


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## Benchwayze

Thanks Alex. 

I'll look into this. Seems like it could be a boon; or at least quite useful! Might be able to watch programmes I missed via iPlayer, but onto the big screen!


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## Gimlet

Steve,

Now I'm no electrician but.....

If you are intending to use a wireless/ethernet extender, which utilises the existing ring main circuit, please bear in mind that the supply to the workshop must also be connected to the same ring circuit for it to work. This goes against the ideal scenario of having a separate circuit, say 6mm armoured power supply, to the workshop from a separate circuit breaker on your consumer unit in the house.

The extender plugs into a socket adjacent to the router to which it is connected with a network cable. The receiving end plugs into a socket elsewhere, say your new workshop, thus extending the range of both Ethernet and wireless.

Importantly, utilising an existing supply from the house may impose limitations on available loading whereas a separate supply, if large enough, will not.

As stated, I'm no sparky but please give this a deal of consideration before you go too far with the build. Perhaps have a chat with a suitably qualified person?

Best regards and good luck with the project.... Will look on with interest. 

Jeff


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## Steve Maskery

HI Gimlet
Thanks for that but yes, I realise I cannot have a "normal" range extender down to a separate circuit.

I already have a 60A supply to the log cabin, on a separate circuit to the house. I hope I can tap off this for power.

Eric the Viking has a piece of kit for me which I believe does not rely on a ring main. I'll know more when I next see him.

I've been out digging today. Most of the rubbish heap has gone to the tip. I've dug up a plastic builder's bucket, a piece of carpet, a wallpaper stripper, some rocks, tiles, perspex sheets, a few metres of polypropylene rope, a string vest and an egg, intact. And a greenhouse-worth of broken glass. I've also dug up some coal, which should not be too much of a surprise as there was once a pithead just a couple of hundred yards away.

What I've not dug up are the rootballs of the privet bushes that were at the right back corner. They are immoveable 

One nice find though, once I am though all the rubbish I do have rather nice soil - dark, rich, friable. Lovely stuff.


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## monkeybiter

So someone buried some rope and a string vest. There may be a beaten wife under the concrete.


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## Steve Maskery

Surely more likely a beaten husband? I know this is ex-working-class territory (now part working-class part benefit-class), but I don't think the women wear string vests, not even round here.

S


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## Random Orbital Bob

Ooh....Les Dawson moment


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## Steve Maskery

True, I'm sure I've seen Cissy and Ada along the street.
S


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## monkeybiter

I was thinking more of the nick-name 'wife-beater' although that may refer to any type of vest. 

I would have thought that after a thoroughly good murdering the protagonist might bury his 'soiled' clothing and the used restraints. I know that's what I always do. :twisted:


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## Myfordman

I use homeplug Ethernet over mains adaptors across a number of power rings in my house and workshop The range to my workshop is about 180 feet and works fine for internet access and file transfer to and from the workshop. I would not try streaming viodeo over it but it works fine for 'nromal' needs.

One configuration they don't like is connection from one phase to another on a 3 phase installation but that is not the case for Steve I'm sure.

I may well have have run other cables in the same duct as my mains feed to the workshop - an easy mistake to make and difficult to detect later nudge nudge!


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## MMUK

Steve Maskery":15lmyi1o said:


> HI Gimlet
> Thanks for that but yes, I realise I cannot have a "normal" range extender down to a separate circuit.
> 
> I already have a 60A supply to the log cabin, on a separate circuit to the house. I hope I can tap off this for power.




:shock: 

Unless you only plan on fitting a light and a double socket, you'll want a completely independant supply, Steve. 

Because of the distances involved you will need to fit at least 10mm2 armoured cable with a 100A isolator at the mains end and a consumer unit in the workshop. The armoured cable will need to go into a junction box at each end so it can be terminated and earthed correctly, or just the mains end if you fit a steel cased consumer unit.


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## Steve Maskery

Thanks. Ouch. I hadn't banked on that.
I do have a tame leccy, I think we need to have a Little Chat.
S


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## MMUK

One thing to bear in mind, Steve, is that the total load of whatever machinery you have cannot exceed 100A. Although I would recommend not exceeding 70A total load to allow for any start up surge currents. If you are anywhere near this figure, I would really recommend having it connected to a separate 100A incoming fuse and meter or you may find a shortage of power in the house/extension/sauna/whatever. Unfortunately this would incur some substancial cost as it would have to be done by your local electricity board. So, you may need to be strict with yourself on machines.

Another point to consider - Any machines you have that induce a start up current may well trip a normal domestic MCB. I would recommend that machines such as a STS or SCMS are fitted with a D Curve trip.


If you need any help on the leccy side, give me a shout.


----------



## monkeybiter

Another obvious consideration is that with a single user, even with the best equipped workshop, you are only likely to have a maximum of two or three motors running at any one time. [extraction + machine tool] Lighting shouldn't consume too much, nor would your much anticipated video equipment. 

IMHO I wouldn't have thought that your maximum consumption would approach anywhere near 70A. How great are startup currents ?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I won't be using anything like 100A! 
The biggest is my TS which does need a 16A supply, everything else runs on a normal 13A plug. It's not as if it's going to be a commercial workshop with lots of people using different machines at the same time.

Thanks for the offer MMUK, much appreciated.


----------



## MMUK

Phew! Although, due to the distance I would still use 10mm2 armoured cable for the supply straight from the meter with a 100A isolator. You could then probably be OK with another 100A main switch in the workshop consumer unit with maybe 2x 32A rings, 2x 16A "blue" circuit and a 6A lighting ring.


----------



## Steve Maskery

How would you deal with the conservatory? The main electricity box is now on an internal wall. It was an external wall originally, but the conservatory has been built over it.
S


----------



## MMUK

Without a pic it's not easy to give the perfect solution but I would probably terminate the armoured into a proper box on the outside wall and then run 10mm2 T+E through the wall, into the conservatory and along the wall to the mains and conceal it in trunking.


----------



## Steve Maskery

OK, that makes sense. Thank you.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

More progress today. The root stumps are out, the trenches strung and that waste bit of concrete cut. The forecast for tomorrow is rain, rain, rain, but on Friday we intend to finish the digging and remove the rest of the blocks that have to come down.
I've ordered 1.5 cubic metres of concrete for 11am on Saturday and I could really do with one or two more pairs of hands, complete with wheelbarrows. We have two at the mo, plus two tampers, but the lorry only stays for 30 minutes before it dumps the rest onto the road. We have to barrow it down to the bottom of the garden.
So if you are not doing anything on Saturday and would like to work up a sweat, you would be very welcome. I know it is short notice, but we have to do it when we have to do it. I'm a few minutes drive from J's 27 and 28 of the M1, depending whether you are travelling North or South.
Ta muchly
Steve 07961 427955


----------



## MMUK

Aha! I'm trench filling with ready mix myself on Friday, just myself and near 4 cubes :shock: . If I've any energy left I could bob up for a couple of hours on Sat as long as it's not too early and there's a bacon butty + coffee waiting


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## Steve Maskery

There will be home-made soup and cake, at least. I could run to some bacon butties and the kettle is always on.
Is that a firm offer?  I want enough people but not too many. There is no point in us getting in each other's way and I don't want people travelling unnecessarily, only to find they are redundant, but I don't want to be shovelling it off the road and having to clean up, either.
One more then chaps? Pretty please?
S


----------



## MMUK

Yeah, firm offer bud. I can have a goosey at your leccy proposal while I'm there. I've a second fix to do in Nuneaton but that can be done on the way home. Just PM me your address.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Team sorted chaps.

Four gentlemen barrowing
Two ladies tamping
And a partridge in a pear tree.
S


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## paulm

Who's going to take the pictures though Steve and make the tea and coffee ?!!!

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Steve Maskery

Here is a pic from a few days ago, just to show that I'm not just standing around with a camera watching Ray do_ all _the work:






and the cutting of the concrete, although we haven't actually lifted it yet:





And so to today. We took delivery of some sand, cement, bricks and mesh this morning, but I forgot to photograph it, sorry. The we set to with our shuttering. We are using the rafters that came off the old shack. We took a while to get the lines right as we can't check for square with diagonals, there is too much old shack in the way.





The soil that has come out has been tipped into what was once a pond. It's nearly full, but the annoying thing is that the last lot of soil is not as nice as the soil we dug up a few days ago, so the best stuff is underneath the latest stuff. It's not awful, but it's not as good.

Then it was down with the rest of the RH wall. Very grateful for Cowboy Builder's Hilti, but even so the piers were stubborn.





The we just had to trim the mesh a little:





then cut a couple of tamping boards and we are ready for tomorrow:





Or at least we will be after I've made a cake and some soup. Quite frankly I'm ready for bed. 

I don't know how Ray does this. This is crippling me and he has ten years or more on me. But he is stronger and has more stamina than I do. Right now I can hardly move.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow. 2 cubic metres arriving at 11am.


----------



## paulm

Ibuprofen Steve, best invention in the world, well, after malt whisky of course :lol: 

If I know I'm going to be doing some serious work I usually take a couple (pills not whiskys !) before I start and then another dose or two during/after, helps a lot I find with stiffness/inflammation brought on by not being as young or active these days !

There's a lot of work being done there, interesting to see it develop, thanks for keeping up with the postings.

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well...
Concrete ordered for 11am, everyone here and ready by twenty to. At 11.10 the phone went. "We're running a bit late. Will a quarter to twelve be OK?". As if I had a choice. 12 o'clock. 12. 15. Still no concrete. I ring, get the answerphone. Grrrrr. Twenty to one the phone goes. "We're on our way, we'll be ten minutes."

So we had some Thai carrot soup and waited. They eventually turned up a few minutes before one, two hours late.

However, it was not time wasted:
Ray, Bob and I knocked down some more of the back wall and stacked the blocks on the neighbour's garden. They want some of the blocks so that suits me fine.





Charlie and Chris restacked some of my wood out of the way:




and Thérèse (That's like Theresa only posh French) cut up some firewood for me:




Incidentally, Thérèse is the only lady I know who owns has her own concrete mixer...

SO when the lorry finally turned up we had achieved quite a lot, just not what we had intended.










But then disaster, we were a bit short:





So Ray mixed some by hand, while the others hosed down the wheelbarrows and shovels. There are no pics of that as I was busy in the kitchen making some rather excellent bacon and egg sarnies. And so, after they were demolished as well as my triple lemon cake, we were left with:











So all's well that ends well and I got 15% knocked off the bill.

As Ray went, he called "See you tomorrow for some bricklaying. That'll be easy compared with this".


----------



## Baldhead

Looking good Steve, hope you remembered to place a time capsule under the concrete, if not you'll have to dig a bit up    

Baldhead


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'll post a proper update later, but we've been busy with the shuttering for the slab. The big pile of blocks in the centre has now all gone so we were able to measure our diagonals. They are the same to within 5mm! Result! Considering we did that with string and Pythagoras I'm pretty impressed.

Anyway, the purpose of this post is to ask if anyone is available tomorrow for a couple of hours? Concrete is arriving at 11.30am and I could do with one more pair of hands. If not, we'll manage, but there is more than twice as much as we took last week.

Anyone feeling strong?


----------



## Racers

Hi Steve

I will drag my son round with me.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Excellent Pete. We now have a good team. How many wheelbarrows can you muster?
S


----------



## Racers

None Steve, sorry

They probably wouldn't fit in the Alfa even if I had one.

Is there a local hire place? HSS do them for £6.35 a day.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Pics as promised.
We were going to build a foundation wall and slab to that, but Ray decided that it was easier, cheaper, quicker and better just to shutter up and pour. Well what's to argue against?

So we cut more of the old rafters and set out three bays for casting. This is becasue we don't have a tamping board that is over 8m long, and if we did we probably would not be able to shove it.

You will notice that we are using the old blocks as infill in the lower areas of the floor.






When there was not enough room for whole blocks we lay out rubble and whacked it down.





We've stuck a few bits of insulation foam in any gaps, and used some to create access for electricity and water.

So I think we are ready. The vacant square in the middle is roughly where my TS will be, so I'm having solid concrete there with no infill. With the 10" base that is already there I think it should be adequate...

I have a team of 7 blokes lined up for concreting at 11.30 tomorrow. The weather forecast is for heavy rain overnight, which will help us by wetting the blocks so they don't suck the water out of the concrete too quickly and then for just a shower or two while we are working. Fingers crossed.




S


----------



## NickWelford

You just have time to set up a time lapse video so we can watch the whole process condensed into two minutes.........


----------



## Steve Maskery

What a day.
Concrete man arrived early. Pete and his son Sam had just arrived and the two Dave's were on their way. We were just about to get cracking when I tripped on the kerb and fell over. I'm afraid to say that I uttered a rude word. This time last year I was on crutches and I'm only just getting back being properly mobile, so for a moment I was absolutely terrified. Fortunately it was my good knee that I fell on and it's just a bruise. Close call though.

The concrete is mixed at the site, so we can't run out and we don't have spare. We'd reckoned between 5 and 6 cubic metres, but as it was so irregular in depth, it was difficult to be more precise. We barrowed, we tamped. The rain kept off...





Charlie was back, a glutton for punishment





and Racers, with his son Sam.










As we came to do the centre bay it became more difficult because we could not get to the ends of the tamping board, but we did it eventually. 6.25 cubic metres.

Just as we poured in the last barrowload the heavens opened and it absolutely poured down. There is some pooling, so we are a tad low in the middle, but it is not bad. I can measure it when it has cured a bit. If it is only a couple of millimetres I can live with that, it's got to have 50mm insulation and two layers of chipboard over it yet, I think it will be fine.










So with any luck the hardest part is done. It's just the biggest part left.


----------



## nathandavies

looking good, i'm guessing you prefer woodwork to gardening. Is it going to be super insulated for noise? Looks like you have plenty of helpful friends.


----------



## monkeybiter

I always think that once the base is down the rest is fun, with much more sense of daily achievement. Having said that you should be well chuffed, that's a bloody big looking base.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was going to use SIPS, but the company messed me about, so I'm going to build it the American way.

I am discovering, however, that the Americans don't agree on how it should be done! Traditionally it has been 2x4s on 16" centers; sorry, I mean 4x2s on 16" centres. But sometime in the latter part fo the 20th Century the US government actually did some research and came up with Advanced Framing (AF). 2x6s instead of 2x4s, and on 24" centres. So it's about the same amount of timber (50% wider but 50% further apart) but all the trusses sit directly on the studs so there is no need for a double top plate. Also you can get 50% more insulation in the walls.

The proponents say that AF is a no brainer, detractors take the "it ain't broke so why fix it?" stand. I'm inclined to go the AF route, not least because it involves fewer pieces to manhandle, even if they are bigger and heavier.

This is a workshop rather than a dwelling, I want it cosy to work in but not boiling. So I think I'm going to have 100mm insulation in the walls. That will leave me an air gap and I can have recessed electric sockets without having to cut away the insulation. If I need to install another socket somewhere, I can cut a hole and get my hand in to fish the cable out, too.

I know it is heat insulation rather than sound insulation, but it is bound to help and it's not as if it is built on a party wall with the neighbours living room. It could hardly be further away from the houses.

While the slab cures I have to draw up some construction drawings so I can get a cutting list. So far I have only a concept drawing. Anyone here an expert on roof trusses? I could do with some input.

My body is starting to complain again. I've hurt my wrists when I fell, as well as scabbing my knee


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Exciting Steve. Doubtless you have that well earned tiredness (if a little bruised) feeling. And heart warming that such a response to helping out came your way. I wonder what your first project once its built will be?


----------



## Steve Maskery

First project will probably be the double doors. I don't really want to have to buy them, do I? I shall board up the larger opening until they are done. Not sure what to do about the personnel door. I'd like to make that too, but I can't board up both doorways, can I? I could make it at the Community Workshop where I volunteer, but my time is usually taken up doing other stuff there and it would take up quite a lot of space. I might just make a temporary one out of 2x4s and OSB.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

good idea. Get it secure, if a little rough while you get inside to make the finished product. And I agree making the double doors would be a fitting inaugural maiden voyage for her


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

One last thought on the doors. You probably wouldn't do this due to expense and loss of ceiling space but its worth mentioning. My workshop is in my garage. I have electrically operated doors that come up to the ceiling. I have a clicker that operates them and for convenience its just the best. When I'm making a lot of dust or want lots of light, I pop them up (without even having to leave the lathe). When I want privacy or the weather turns, down they go. Just a thought, its a luxury I now wouldn't do without but appreciate its not to everyones taste.


----------



## Steve Maskery

One thing I'd like to say.
You may or may not know (I've made no secret of it) that I've been ill for the last couple of years, largely due to losing my home and workshop. Only a couple of months ago I was still sleeping badly and at odd times. Usually I did nothing of significance until the afternoon and not always then. Some days I've done nothing at all and anything I have done has seemed like a mountain to climb.
But although this project is knackering my body, it is doing wonders for my mental health. I feel alive again. I've not felt this good upstairs since the domestic balloon went up. Yesterday I was in Morrison's by 8.30 and back home by 9.10 with the shopping. I couldn't believe that I was feeling that good that early in the day.
I'm posting this because many people offered me support and encouragement along the way and if this helps anyone else then that is a bonus.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

I did know Steve, having read some of your posts on the subject. I sympathise having had a bout of fairly hefty depression myself some years ago. I also found that a concrete (no pun intended) goal that takes you out of yourself is very therapeutic. Travel I've found also helps. 

My theory is that it relates to having "new thoughts". When either your routine or your environment changes it quite literally remakes your brain chemistry in terms of ritual and persistent thoughts. It focuses on new things and that's always helped sort of lift me out of the rut as it were. No idea what the medical profession would make of that, just my experience. I think you're very open and honest about your situation and I've also been pleasantly surprised by the warm and sympathetic and encouraging responses people have given on this forum. Some nice folks out there and no mistake...I suspect you're one of them Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

One thing I forgot. We had a bit of a crisis moment not long into the pour. The shuttering along the RH side started to push out and we had a significant bow. We had to stop what we were doing and force it back into line. It wasn't easy. We cut sprags to wedge against the concrete fence posts and got it back into something resembling line. I'll know how successful we have been when all the shuttering comes off, but I bet it's messed up our nice lines. Originally it was as if it had been built by the Ancient Egyptians. If we'd not spotted it it would have looked like it had been built built by (insert your preferred butt of jokes here). There were one or two other places where we'd plugged holes in the shuttering and those plugs were pushed out by the pressure of the concrete, too. There was a bit of First Aid along the way.
S


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## wcndave

Nice to see the progress Steve, on all fronts, and wonderful of people to pitch in.

Just a quick note on those powerline adaptors mentioned a few pages ago. They seem like magic, but they also screw up long wave signals for kilometres around, and amateur radio groups are trying to get them banned.

I have seen cases of scanners and equipment being rendered useless by these, and I know we wouldn't want our hobby to ruin someone else's hobby.

Look forward to more updates,

Dave


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## SammyQ

Steve and Bob; you are both SO right about activity or a new 'got to do this' for chasing Depression. May I suggest the tee-shirt adage "Just DO it!" is succinctly apt and the key to well being?

Sam


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## lanemaux

I have been reading this post with interest Steve , and the best part for me is the next to last post by you. I am so happy to hear you say you are feeling good again because of the build. I've read many of your other posts and have been pulling for you to get a smile and chuckle whenever you can. It's good to hear it's working out for you and your getting a shop again.


----------



## Harbo

I can only reiterate other peoples comments and say "well done Steve and your helpers"!

Rod


----------



## Phil Pascoe

SammyQ":2rda9fvh said:


> Steve and Bob; you are both SO right about activity or a new 'got to do this' for chasing Depression. May I suggest the tee-shirt adage "Just DO it!" is succinctly apt and the key to well being?
> 
> Sam


 :lol: Or as is said in our house (in it's abbreviated form).........JFDI!!!


----------



## Random Orbital Bob




----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you guys. Thank you very much. I'm not totally out of the woods yet, I don't think, but my goodness me I feel better than I have for four and a half years.
Right let's move on. I have some serious Sketchup modelling to do while the concrete cures.


----------



## Charlie Woody

Looks like good news all around....Steve is finding his MoJo thanks to this build, the generosity of others time & knowledge (not to mention muscles) is shown once again, and we all get to enjoy another workshop build!

Looking forward to more of the same.


----------



## SammyQ

Wish I was closer. Long way Belfast to Nottingham....


----------



## yetloh

Steve Maskery":1r6suvn6 said:


> One thing I'd like to say.
> You may or may not know (I've made no secret of it) that I've been ill for the last couple of years, largely due to losing my home and workshop. Only a couple of months ago I was still sleeping badly and at odd times. Usually I did nothing of significance until the afternoon and not always then. Some days I've done nothing at all and anything I have done has seemed like a mountain to climb.
> But although this project is knackering my body, it is doing wonders for my mental health. I feel alive again. I've not felt this good upstairs since the domestic balloon went up. Yesterday I was in Morrison's by 8.30 and back home by 9.10 with the shopping. I couldn't believe that I was feeling that good that early in the day.
> I'm posting this because many people offered me support and encouragement along the way and if this helps anyone else then that is a bonus.



Steve,

I've been following your thread somewhat sporadically but was struck by this post. I was aware of your illness and I am sure many other readers will, like me, be delighted to read of your progress on this front. Some years ago I too experienced a period of depression and found it far worse then physical illness. Like you I decided early on that I did not want it to be a secret, not least because, being in a management role at the time, I wanted to set an example which might help others to seek help and be able to talk about it without fear for their jobs or of stigmatisation. It also helped me when I did return to work and the concern and warmth I experienced changed my outlook on life. Your public profile is much higher than mine so your open approach is all the more admirable and has all the more potential for good. Keep up the good work, and also your most interesting posts on your workshop project.

Jim


----------



## Boatfixer

Fantastic work Steve - looking forward to seeing this build progress. You mention threading electrics behind the wall panelling. For workshops I like my electrics run around the eaves in trunking with conduit dropped down to wall plugs. Not pretty but so easy to alter as you move machines around or get new additions to the workshop arsenal. 

Graham


----------



## Charlie Woody

Steve Maskery":3u4pn7uj said:


> First project will probably be the double doors. I don't really want to have to buy them, do I? I shall board p the larger opening until they are done. Not sure what to do about the personnel door. I'd like to make that too, but I can't board up both doorways, can I? I could make it atthe Community Workshop where I volunteer, but my time is usually taken up doing other stuff there and it would take up quite a lot of space. I might just make a temporary one out of 2x4s and OSB.



Steve
May I suggest a simple but sturdy door that can be made very quickly? A sheet of 18mm ply for the outside, 50 x 75 mm softwood framework inside, insulation within framework, 6mm ply on inside. All glued & screwed. It will be very solid and you can have your building secured in a day.


----------



## Charlie Woody

Boatfixer":2iejux6o said:


> Fantastic work Steve - looking forward to seeing this build progress. You mention threading electrics behind the wall panelling. For workshops I like my electrics run around the eaves in trunking with conduit dropped down to wall plugs. Not pretty but so easy to alter as you move machines around or get new additions to the workshop arsenal.
> 
> Graham



+1 such a flexible solution.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, that is a good option. But I'm thinking that if I have a void in the walls, and I leave a loop of cable between each point, I can simply cut a hole in the wall and reach in for the cable then cut it, turn the power off and add a new point. Not necessarily in that order...

And it's a lot prettier than trunking.
S


----------



## Charlie Woody

Steve Maskery":2yfd8bhu said:


> Yes, that is a good option. But I'm thinking that if I have a void in the walls, and I leave a loop of cable between each point, I can simply cut a hole in the wall and reach in for the cable then cut it, turn the power off and add a new point. Not necessarily in that order...
> 
> And it's a lot prettier than trunking.
> S



Yes this might work. However if you remove a socket to re locate elsewhere you will need to fill the hole. Also if you have to move sockets a lot then you may run short of cable & it would be difficult to add an extra length. With conduit you don't have this issue.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I don't think so, Chaarlie. For a start I shall never take one out!  If I have to replace a length of cable I could use the old one to pull in the new one. I'd just have to be careful about losing it at the stud hole.

I am also mulling over the idea of having a removable panel, say 200mm high, all round the room. Then access would be guaranteed.


----------



## Racers

That sounds like a good idea Steve, one run an a known height (probably one circuit on each wall) easy to change anything.

Pete


----------



## RogerS

Are you going to have a Master On/Off switch Steve? I always thought that that was something I could have put in. With a permanently powered small circuit for overnight vacuum-bagging etc, burglar alarm.

Radial cables for 16A machines also a good idea.


----------



## wcndave

Steve, is your house currently full of all your machinery? I seem to recall you had a fair number of tools and I doubt you are leaving them in the garden!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Roger, that is a good idea, I shall look into it.
Dave, erm, yes, my house is full of (what's left of) my workshop stuff.
S


----------



## wcndave

So having a dining table saw must make carving the roast a little easier...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Not much to show for this week's work, I'm afraid.
We decided to take out the inner form work. We thought that the concrete would shrink away and we could just lift out the boards. Dream on.
Instead, the wood swelled with the moisure and the boards jammed solid. We hacked away with SDS wood chisels, crowbars, auger bits, anything we could think of to get it out. It took two of us two days.

The result is 10 bags of kindling:






but an all-concrete base.






Next job is to finalise the structural design and get building. The walls are sorted but I'm having some difficulty with the trusses. I may have to get specialist help in. I say the walls are sorted, but after a chat with Houtslager yesterday I might change a couple of things.

A long way to go, but at least the only way is up now. 

I must get round to knocking down the rest of the walls...


----------



## morfa

Looking good. Can't wait to see the finished workshop.


----------



## Bluekingfisher

I'm not sure if you are going to build your own roof trusses or buy?? The issue with roofs is that you have to consider the load, which may or may not be an issue depending on expected materials to be used.

I was advised to get it done professionally. If memory serves I had a free quote (online) from Jewsons, either that or TP, i can't recall. It takes them a week or two to get back to you. Its free of charge so depending on your time frames may be worth a go

Again, from memory to truss a roof 36' x 22' with a 1:4 raise it was £1500.00 delivered. Not cheap but takes all the worry out of it. 

David


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've been to see a truss company today, actually. They are only a couple of miles away. We'll see what they come up with. 
I also have a TP withing walking distance, so I'm not short of options.
S


----------



## custard

You're on a roll...good luck with the next stage!


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## Myfordman

Steve Maskery":e6nh94ja said:


> I've been to see a truss company today



I did wonder if all that heavy work might have caused you some damage. :lol:


----------



## Peter Sefton

Myfordman":3h84nent said:


> Steve Maskery":3h84nent said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been to see a truss company today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did wonder if all that heavy work might have caused you some damage. :lol:
Click to expand...


=D> =D> =D> 

Good to see its going well Steve


----------



## RogerS

Steve Maskery":1u87tuyg said:


> I've been to see a truss company today, actually. They are only a couple of miles away. We'll see what they come up with.
> I also have a TP withing walking distance, so I'm not short of options.
> S




You might also like to try Jewson's as I find Travis to be very pricey. http://www.jewson.co.uk/working-with-yo ... enquiries/

Have you thought about running an ethernet cable out to the workshop? Or any sort of small capacity cable for alarms etc?


----------



## Doug B

Steve Maskery":2k70sagp said:


> I've been to see a truss company today, actually. They are only a couple of miles away. We'll see what they come up with.


Truss Tech Steve?




Steve Maskery":2k70sagp said:


> I also have a TP withing walking distance, so I'm not short of options.
> S



If you tell them you're in the trade they do a cash account card, I use the Mansfield branch handy for sheet materials.


----------



## No skills

Steve Maskery":2hf7ltec said:


> I am also mulling over the idea of having a removable panel, say 200mm high, all round the room. Then access would be guaranteed.



I think Frank Howarth did a removable strip all round his workshop for electrics. Seems a good solution for an environment where machine placement will vary over time.


----------



## n0legs

No skills":2up26dwh said:


> I think Frank Howarth did a removable strip all round his workshop for electrics. Seems a good solution for an environment where machine placement will vary over time.




You are correct he did wire out his workshop in that fashion. 

A good option would be dado trunking.
It's east to fit and very easy to install into. It's expandable and alterations can be done neatly and safely.
Depending upon the size used a few circuits could be run to suit requirements.
The Marshall Tufflex stuff is oh so lush but it is expensive.


----------



## No skills

Yes that's nice stuff, but £££ - all budget dependant I spose.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well it been quiet here for a few weeks, but that doesn't mean I've been totally idle.

I've been finalising the details of the building structure, I've finally finished knocking down the rest of the old walls and today I've ORDERED THE TIMBER FOR THE BUILD. Yippee! It should arrive Wednesday.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Ah....the really interesting stuff. Well at least til the tools arrive anyway


----------



## Steve Maskery

The timber was supposed to arrive yesterday but the weather forecast was so bad I postponed it. In the event, we had almost nothing until the evening and this morning was wet. However, the delivery arrived just before noon, by which time it had stopped raining. They don't show on the photo, but he is very close to half a dozen telephone wires. No problem, none of them are mine...

















An then, after 3-and-a-half hours of humping about:






I did about a third of it on my own and then my mate Stuart turned to help with the rest. It was very welcome. Not knackeringly hard work, not like the demolition was, but I know that tonight I'm going to have aches on my aches. And as Stuart pointed out, it's better than paying out to go to the gym.

A Very Nice Man on this forum has persuaded a mate of his, who doesn't know me from Adam, to lend me a Paslode, so that is going to save me hours and a sore arm. I certainly wouldn't lend my Paslode to a total stranger, there are very few people I'd lend any tools to, TBH, but I'm glad to be the recipient of such generosity. Just got to find a decent Single Malt as a Thankyou.
S


----------



## wcndave

Now the hard work really begins! Good to see constant progress.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Please let that not be true! I was rather hoping this was the beginning of the easier-and-more-fun bit!

I feel like I've been put on a rack.

S


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## wcndave

Knocking stuff down is fun and easy. Now you have to measure and lift and join and work stuff out ;-)

I'm sure it will be fun too! 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## Steve Maskery

wcndave":1plr46p8 said:


> Knocking stuff down is fun and easy.



I think we will have to agree to disagree on that one!
S


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## morfa

Steve - if you really want to say 'thanks' a bottle of Lagavulin would be my choice. Not cheap, but worth every penny.

The pile of wood looks ace, can't wait to see progress.


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## Steve Maskery

Now, you see, Lagavulin would not be mine. Too harsh, too smokey) and I don't mind a bit a smoke in my scotch), too everything, really.
In the old life, Glenmorangie was my normal tipple, but I had a cupboard of different malts. Now I have to drink Bells . Actually, the Aldi/Lidl versions are not bad. Lidl used to do a single malt, too. I forget its name but apparently it used to be something else, Lidl bought the distillery and rebranded it. Nice drop. Not seen it for ages though, so I don't know why they stopped it, it was good stuff.
S


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## Steve Maskery

Just along the road are some blocks of flats. Square, flat-roofed, ugly as sin. But only 3 storeys, so that's something to be grateful for. They are being renovated, covered in pink foam insulation and rendered.

The builders throw away tons of waste insulation, so I had a word with the gaffer and I currently have 5 bags, each about a cubic metre in size.






There are 2 or 3 more building to do yet. What do you reckon that I won't have to buy any insulation?


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## wcndave

That's good news! I just had my next lot delivered, so far 400sqm of 10cm thick insulation, and we're not finished yet!

Do you think it's going to be easy to put that jigsaw together though? a Japanese saw is excellent for cutting it I found.


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## Phil Pascoe

:lol: A few tubes of polyurethane foam and you'll be able to form it back into sheets.


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## morfa

Steve Maskery":2b7a70o5 said:


> Now, you see, Lagavulin would not be mine. Too harsh, too smokey) and I don't mind a bit a smoke in my scotch), too everything, really.
> In the old life, Glenmorangie was my normal tipple,



See I've never liked Glenmorangie that much myself. It's ok. But I much prefer Islay Malts.

Out of curiosity, what's a Paslode? Google says it's a nailer? Which would make sense.


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## Steve Maskery

Yes


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## morfa

Blimey they are expensive. Nice of the chap to lend it to you.

Please tell me that's not your fingers there?


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## wallace

I used paslodes for years, I really liked them. We then swapped to Stanley bostitch and about 50 paslodes went in the skip. The amount of times I have seen nails go in nasty places is unreal or the amount of times new starters nailed there hand to a piece of wood.
Isle of Jura is a nice smooth tipple, much better then that peaty lagavulin.


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## Phil Pascoe

Longmorn


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## Racers

Glen Campbell Glen Miller or Glen Hoddle for me.

Pete


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## Random Orbital Bob

Steve Maskery":35k5hzgh said:


> Yes



Thanks Steve! I was just biting into a bacon butty when I scrolled down to that picture. Put me right off me game


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## Steve Maskery

Well this week I have cut and joined the four mudsill plates (although one is quite bent, I may have to pull it apart and re-fix it) and today I've cut 51 studs:






I set up a roller stand (I'm in the way in the picture), screwed a 4x2 to the fence and clamped a stop block to it. That way they all end up exactly the same. I've cut them to 2.9m. With the top and bottom plates and the mudsill, it should work out pretty much exactly 2.5 sheets of OSB sheathing in height, allowing for a 25mm overhang at the bottom.

The trusses have a raised tie, giving me 450mm extra, so my ceiling should be about 11 ft in the middle. Nice!

I should be able to build the walls this week, so if anyone is up for a barn-raising next Saturday, I'll get the bacon in.

S


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## Steve Maskery

Excellent day today, chaps and chappesses.
Ray is back off holiday (Hoorah!) and while he was gone I had discovered that our nice square concrete base was not quite as nice and square as we had planned. I still don't know how it happened, but we did find out where. Front right corner, short by about 30mm on the RHS.
But the good news was that when we removed the shuttering, the vast majority of the concrete was beautifully smooth and quite a lot of it was straight. A bit wonky where we'd had to do emergency bracing when we were pouring, but mostly very good.
But we had to decide what to do about the bits were not right.
I don't want any concrete at all sticking out from underneath the structure, because the sheathing is going to overlap so that it sheds water nicely. So, although I had already made the mudsills, we made one a bit longer and adjusted the rest so that we ended up with a square mudsill base. There is a bit at the front where we are going to have to point up. The concrete is an inch or so shy underneath, for a depth of a couple of inches. But we have set it up with opposite mudsills that match, with strings for straight and with a big square of Thales for square. We've got stuff stacked inthe middle of the site again, so we can't measure diagonals without moving a lot of boards about, but we are confident we are not far out.
The silver stuff is a damp-proof membrane, bitumen on the underside. There is a protective film over the bitumen which is supposed to peel off, but it is old stuff, the film is perished and comes off in shreds, it took us ages.
The mudsill is held down just with hammer fixings. They are not what will tie the building down eventually, of course, they are just to hold it in place until we get the walls up and and then the whole structure can be locked down with expanding bolts.
Ray has got a garden to deal with in the next couple of days, so I'll be on my own, but my studs are cut so I only have to cut the top and bottom plates and nail the walls together. I think I can manage that. Fingers crossed. So the plan is still to have a barn-raising on Saturday. All welcome!
Here are some pictures:

We decided we'd better have a bit of a clean up, it was getting a bit trippy-uppy:





The DPC is about 3mm thick and comes in rolls. Just cut to size:





The first fixed point - Hooray!





We only had to make one mudsill longer, then we could trim the others. No jigs were harmed in the fitting of this mudsill.





This is my biggest Square of Thales. Even so, it is quite small for a job of this size.





So now I have a square base and I can build on that.





Now I've got some walls to build.


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## The Bear

Wow, that looks like its going to be a massive workshop

Mark


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## Steve Maskery

That's sort of the point! 
There has to be some good to come out of life going pear-shaped.
S


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## Charlie Woody

Excuse my ignorance, but what is a "mudsill" ?


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## Steve Maskery

Mudsill is the piece of wood that contacts the concrete slab. In this case it doesn't contact it, I have a DPM in between.
Normally you would then build a floor on the mudsill and then build the walls up from that. I'm not doing that, so the mudsill is probably not entirely necessary, but it does provide a good datum on which to build. Getting a mudsill straight and true is easier, I think, than getting a rather flexible wall straight and true. So that is why I am doing it.
I plan to have what is called a Floating Floor. In other words, it is not structural and not fixed to anything. It is simply a layer of rigid foam insulation with two layers of chipboard on top. Apparently lots of houses are built that way today. Sounds good and easy to me.
S


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## Woodmonkey

Picture 4 someone has glued a piece of wood to the top of your head


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## Steve Maskery

Dang! Don't you just hate it when someone does that without you noticing?
S


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## wcndave

They did a mudsill on my house. It's much easier to fix a sill to the concrete and to get it all square etc than when you're working with great big walls.

It's then much easier to initially fix wooden walls to other wood than concrete, especially if they are large and heavy.

I suppose it depends on your walls as to the extent of the benefit.

It's too late now but one could consider a little concrete sill, finished with wood on top.

That way any lying water is not in contact with wood.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


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## Racers

Woodmonkey":1363raxj said:


> Picture 4 someone has glued a piece of wood to the top of your head



Either that or he has been using the Paslode again.

Pete


p.s. Me and Sam are ready for Saturday


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## Baldhead

Racers":3efnt1z4 said:


> Woodmonkey":3efnt1z4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Picture 4 someone has glued a piece of wood to the top of your head
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Either that or he has been using the Paslode again.
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> p.s. Me and Sam are ready for Saturday
Click to expand...

I never noticed the wood, at first, I do like the Ramboesque headband though! :lol: 

Enjoying this thread Steve, keep the WIP pics coming.

Baldhead


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## Steve Maskery

wcndave":1tpkpc6m said:


> It's too late now but one could consider a little concrete sill, finished with wood on top.
> 
> That way any lying water is not in contact with wood.



I think in this case we have sort of done that. The whole slab is raised up. Not by much at the front, but by about 8" at the back. The walls will come down over the top of the slab, so any shed water will not sit on the wood.
S


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## wcndave

Yes, it's probably overkill what I was thinking of.






Basically it means any water either side does not touch wood. They are also good fro getting your building square.

So the slab does not have to be exactly level, or square, which is hard, but you can use shims to get the mudsill exactly level. Then you fill the gap between wood and slab with concrete for a good seal, and you have a perfectly square and level base easily created, without trying to create a flat and square slab.

As I said, probably overkill for a workshop, however you seem to be doing it with a very high level of attention to detail so you never know!


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## JakeS

Steve Maskery":3mzoyczy said:


> Square of Thales



I'd never seen one of those before - what a neat idea! I presume the shorter bar can be loose to swivel and just needs to be mounted exactly halfway along the longer bar and be of exactly half the length (unless my geometry is lacking)? I imagine if that's the case they're probably pretty easy to make from any old lengths of wood you have lying around, as well...


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## Steve Maskery

Correct. The points line up exactly at each end. If all three point touch it is square. If the small arm is too loose the angle is too small. If the big arm is too loose the angle is too big.
Thales was the first recorded philosopher and is credited with being the first to recognise that the angles of a triangle always add up to 180 degrees, which is what makes this little gizmo work.
S


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## wcndave

I suggest you look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7RdAQj8nFc
where some oddball chap is demonstrating!


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## Phil Pascoe

Everyone knows the 3x4x5 sqare, but I'd not seen that one before - it's certainly more portable. Many people don't know 5x12x13 gives a right angle as well.


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## monkeybiter

Steve re. the floating floor; Do you intend putting battens on the concrete between the insulating slabs?
I ask because my extension was built with chipboard over insulation but without the battens. The result is that there is movement in high traffic areas and at some point in the future I will have to retro-fit battens myself. Heavy machinery possibly being wheeled could have a greater compression effect.


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## kostello

Re the floor insulation..... I think extruded polystyrene has the greatest load capacity before compression.... Celotex and expanded polystyrene would squash some....

http://www.foamular.com/foam/products/f ... -1000.aspx


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## Steve Maskery

Mike, how thick is your chipboard? My understanding is that if I get the right insulation (Jablite? I'll have to consult Cowboy Builder again) I'll be OK with two layers of 22mm chipboard directly over the insulation.
S


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## Gimlet

Steve's 'Mudsill' is also referred to as a 'Sole Plate' within the timber frame industry. The sole plate is usually made from the same material as the walls although more often celcure treated and bedded with sand and cement over a DPC to ensure a good level surface from where to erect the wall panels. Sole plates are half lapped together to the give the overall size of the building - any external finishings. Sole plate anchors are simply pieces of stainless steel bent at 90, fixed to the outer edge of the sole plate, lay under and within the bed of muck used to bed the sole plate. They project into the room space where they are fixed down to the over site. This preserves the integrity if the DPC.

The importance of getting the sole plate level cannot be over emphasised as any humps and bumps are compounded as the panels are erected. On a single storey building it is not so bad if there is a little hump but as you can imagine, over two or three storeys the error is compounded greatly as you go up. Assuming your trusses are manufactured to the same size as the sole plate, the last thing you want is for there to be any deviation at the head of the panels at roof level.

Often there are also 'head binders' used on each wall panel..... This amounts to a double head plate; the top head plate is cut back 600mm from the intersection of each panel and an infill piece 1200 mm long is nailed across the panels joint to provide stability. 

Lintels, 2x44x196 for 90mm studs, with a cripple stud or two, depending upon the span, supports the structures above.

Watching with interest Steve... So glad you are making some positive headway now and wish I were closer..... I could do with a bit of a work out!

Best regards

J


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## kostello

Steve Maskery":6whet6bf said:


> Mike, how thick is your chipboard? My understanding is that if I get the right insulation (Jablite? I'll have to consult Cowboy Builder again) I'll be OK with two layers of 22mm chipboard directly over the insulation.
> S


extruded polystyrene is what you need

I've got 2 layers of 18 mm chipboard glued and stapled floating on 100 mm extruded polystyrene..... it's as solid as s concrete floor

it will follow any undulations in the concrete base if it's not flat


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## Steve Maskery

Ah, yes, anchoring down like that would obviate the need to puncture the DPC. Ah well, it's a workshop, not a house (but it's going to be a fandabbydosey workshop!). Tucked away at the back of the brain for next time. :shock:


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## Steve Maskery

More progress today.

But first let me show you something I forgot yesterday.

This why buildings are nailed together rather than screwed together. I took these out of the shuttering. They had been in only a month. They were 90mm long when they went in...





They have simply snapped.

Anyway, this morning I ordered the trusses (a mere £1870 including PTG*). A three-week lead time, so I do have time to do a bit of other stuff beforehand, like digging out for services and building the headers for over the doors.

On the way home I acquired another couple of bags of insulation, but got stopped by a bloke in a very clean hi-vis vest and a clipboard asking me what I was doing. I said I had asked and been given permission. "Well, I don't have a problem", (doesn't sound like it), "but if you are going to take stuff make sure it is tidy around this skip. Look at all this stuff on the ground." I pointed out that it was a damn sight tidier now than when I arrived 5 minutes earlier, because I'd picked up most of the bags of plaster so I could get to the skip itself. Anyway, the gaffer who had told me it was OK turned up and smoothed things over. "See the men right for their trouble", was the clipboard man's parting shot. Not sure what trouble I have caused them, but I'm more than happy to show my appreciation. So after enquiring after his tastes, I have to do something I have never done in my life. He would like 40 Regal King Size. Given that I am militantly anti-smoking that is going to hurt.

This afternoon I set out the top and bottom plates. I had a moment of serendipity. The mudsill/sole plate had ended up at 7890mm and so my top and bottom plates needed to be the same. I'd previously cut all my studs at 2.9m from a 3.6m length, so had a pile of 700mm lengths I was planning to use as noggins. But as I started to build my plates, I found that two 3.6m lengths plus one 700mm length made exactly, and I do mean exactly 7890mm. If I had had to measure and cut them for the job they could not have been better. I'm not quite sure how that happened, because a saw kerf is not 10mm, but it was right, so that saved me a bit of time and was very material efficient.

So to assembling a wall. 

I clamped the four plates (top and bottom for two opposite walls) together and marked out where the studs should go. From the second stud, I marked off every 2 ft and set a cross to the side of the line where the stud would sit.











I got the Paslode out and - nothing. I couldn't get it to work at all. I figures I'd got something set wrong, so rang up the kind owner and went round to see him. It didn't work for him either. Phew! But we fiddled and shoved and changed the (brand new) fuel cell and got it to fire a few nails. OK.

Got home and - nada. Well the odd hit, but it was, miss- miss- miss- miss- miss- miss- miss- miss- hit- miss- miss- miss- miss- hit- hit- miss- miss- miss- miss-....... Very frustrating. But I persevered and got the job done. Are Paslode's supposed to smell of gas? I can still smell it now as I am typing. Really. Either it is pernickety or I am handling it wrong, but it's not a happy relationship yet.

Are you feeling lucky, punk?






So as the sun sets over Maskery Towers, and I collapse completely knackered, I do have two side wall frames built, all on my ownio. 






Ray's back tomorrow, so I have every confidence that the barn-raising is definitely on for Saturday.
*PTG = Pleasing The Government


----------



## Peter Sefton

It looks like its really taking shape Steve.
I have a Paslode which is great when it works but I have found it to get more temperamental the older it gets. I haven't used it for some time but my feeling is its now dead.
I hope you can get it working it saves so much time and arm ache!
Cheers Peter


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## monkeybiter

Re. the floor, I have a feeling my chipboard probably isn't thick enough, and I bet the insulation's not the right sort either. I ought to check really, builder came highly recommended and wasn't the cheapest. It's certainly not as good as kostello describes.

Looking great so far, I agree it's all fun once the base is down. I've done four in the last decade, all from my mixer, bloody hard work. Once you're going up you can see progress daily which is very good for the mood/motivation.


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## Racers

Steve why not bake the builders a cake as well, it should go down a treat, providing they don't have a dog!


 


Pete


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## Paul Chapman

Looking good, Steve (the progress, not you in your Rambo outfit :lol: )

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## johnny

wow what a story !
I just read the entire thread over breakfast and I have to say its 10x better than a TV Drama!  

This week I have been agonising over the demolition, reconstruction and extension details of my little 4.2m x 3m timber shed, which in comparison with your enterprise is like comparing a back yard dunny with the Taj Mahal ! 
My main worry has been the potential reaction of my neighbours as I don't want to get complaints to the local Planning dept. Its surprisingly difficult to achieve sufficient internal headroom and keep under the 2.5mt height restriction and still have some sort of rainwater fall on the roof when your conc base is 200mm above ground level ! :?


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## Random Orbital Bob

Nice work Steve....its going really well 
The paslode misfiring by the way....it's your gas. It'll be past expiry date I guarantee it. I had the same problem with mine, bought new gas and works every time. It's a bit like modern unleaded petrol...it goes off over time. And yes they should smell of gas, that's the spent fuel being exhausted.


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## Bluekingfisher

Those nailers are more trouble than they are worth. A 28oz framing hammer will be cheaper and quicker on a single job.

Have a look at the "Very efficient carpenter, building walls" DVD. The Guy ( a 76 year old ) sank 4" nails in two smacks, he was building the frame quicker than the guy behind him with the air framer and he wasn't even breaking sweat.

No time wasted looking for fuel cells or begging tools from mates.

He even had a bandana similar to yours.

David


----------



## Steve Maskery

We've built the other two walls today. Beautifully warm and sunny this morning and the prospect of half an inch of rain this afternoon. It's now 6.30 and we've not yet had a single drop...

The only hitch was that I can't count. We were two studs short so had to make some emergency cuts. On the up-side, Mrs. Paslode was in a much better mood today. I wouldn't go as far as to say we were on matrimonial terms, but she is, at least, speaking to me.

So the pics are more of the same, I'm afraid.
















So tomorrow we have to move the front wall onto the grass (it's in the way), then we can raise the back wall and the RHS, then shift the other side wall to the left and raise that, then raise the front wall.
At least, that's the plan.

A couple of people I was hoping would be helping can no longer come so I'm a bit short-handed tomorrow. So if you can make NG17 by 10am tomorrow, there will be bacon rolls and beer on offer as well a sense of achievement.

I bought the fags today. I felt guilty doing it.
S


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Bluekingfisher":8jiy4gla said:


> Those nailers are more trouble than they are worth. A 28oz framing hammer will be cheaper and quicker on a single job.
> 
> Have a look at the "Very efficient carpenter, building walls" DVD. The Guy ( a 76 year old ) sank 4" nails in two smacks, he was building the frame quicker than the guy behind him with the air framer and he wasn't even breaking sweat.
> 
> No time wasted looking for fuel cells or begging tools from mates.
> 
> He even had a bandana similar to yours.
> 
> David



Horses for courses, they can be very useful. One real advantage over the hammer and nails is you can use them one handed so you can mark (a noggin for example) and hold with hand 1 while you nail with hand 2. That's definitely easier and quicker than doing it manually.


----------



## Richard S

Bluekingfisher":2xpn8h7x said:


> Those nailers are more trouble than they are worth. A 28oz framing hammer will be cheaper and quicker on a single job.
> 
> Have a look at the "Very efficient carpenter, building walls" DVD. The Guy ( a 76 year old ) sank 4" nails in two smacks, he was building the frame quicker than the guy behind him with the air framer and he wasn't even breaking sweat.
> 
> No time wasted looking for fuel cells or begging tools from mates.
> 
> He even had a bandana similar to yours.
> 
> David



Crikey! DF you have got the hand tool bug mate, what happened to the good old pneumatic framing nailer? Framing hammer indeed, you'll be buying hand planes and building a tool cabinet next!!!


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## Peter Sefton

A site chippy that worked for my father was very quick at hammering home nails, but he had arms like Popeye and could bend 6" nails in his hands. I stuck to using my Paslode rather than making a fool of myself with a guy 30 years my senior.
Good luck tomorrow Steve sorry can't help running a French polishing course in the morning.
Cheers Peter


----------



## Bluekingfisher

Richard S":gmqeboz5 said:


> Bluekingfisher":gmqeboz5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those nailers are more trouble than they are worth. A 28oz framing hammer will be cheaper and quicker on a single job.
> 
> Have a look at the "Very efficient carpenter, building walls" DVD. The Guy ( a 76 year old ) sank 4" nails in two smacks, he was building the frame quicker than the guy behind him with the air framer and he wasn't even breaking sweat.
> 
> No time wasted looking for fuel cells or begging tools from mates.
> 
> He even had a bandana similar to yours.
> 
> David
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crikey! DF you have got the hand tool bug mate, what happened to the good old pneumatic framing nailer? Framing hammer indeed, you'll be buying hand planes and building a tool cabinet next!!!
Click to expand...


I have all the air nailers as you know mate but by the time he dragged all that kit out, read the instructions, nipped round to your mates to verify its function the job would have been done long since. Not as if he is firing 10,000 nails

Perhaps you could lend Steve the Framing book and DVD I lent you


----------



## Steve Maskery

Whoo-hoo! Look at this, guys!

10am the team gathered and we considered our plan:






We'd already moved the front wall out of the way. It was not as difficult as we'd anticipated, we just lifted it up and carried it away. Heavy but not hernia-inducingly so.

So then we tipped the back wall up and secured it with props and got it roughly in line.





Then we carried the west wall over and propped that up in the same way. I have very accommodating neighbours.






The walls were a bit wibbly-wobbly until we got some bracing on, so we decided it might be easier to brace the wall before lifting it up. I used a fine adjuster to get the diagonals the same.





And repeat










Finally the front wall





It took us just one hour to get this far.

The building is held down with anchor bolts. I drill through the woodwork...





...while Pete came round afterwards and leant on his SDS


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## The Bear

In addition to my previous comment of it looking massive, all I can say now is it looks bloody high as well. Hope you don't get vertigo when it comes to doing the roof. I think it might be bigger than the flat I used to live in!

Great progress Steve

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

So with two walls bolted down:





we could concentrate on getting one corner right. Well Mrs Paslode was having a strop, just two nails fired and then nothing so I got to the builders' merchants 2 minutes before they closed and bought a bag of nails.






The top corners are tied together with spiky plates




Do you recognise the blue roofing in the background?

And so, by 2pm we had done. Up, fixed, all the rest of the timber restacked (I'd annexed the neighbours' garden for the night) and bacon sarnied, we were feeling pretty pleased with ourselves. I keep going out and having a look and giggling like a girl.

So Ray says, "Right, I'm off, I've got a hedge to cut." He just never stops.

There will now be a bit of a hiatus. The trusses are on a 3-week lead time, but that means I have plenty of time to make the headers, do the blocking and dig a service channel back to the house. And my car needs an MOT. And the house hasn't been cleaned for yonks. And I have to collect more insulation. And I've got tingly fingers so I'm going to have to see the quack. And...

A massive Thank You to Ray, Steve, Martin, Pete and Sam. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. I'll let you know when the trusses are due...


----------



## Steve Maskery

The Bear":3u7xb3ul said:


> In addition to my previous comment of it looking massive, all I can say now is it looks bloody high as well. Hope you don't get vertigo when it comes to doing the roof.



Yes, good, isn't it? 

I have PP for 3m to the eaves and 4.5m overall. I think I'll have half an inch to spare on height and a couple of inches spare on length. I've not finalised the wall covering yet, which will affect the size slightly. The ground has a bit of a slope, so it does rather depend on where you measure from, but the front is pretty much level with the garden so I'm choosing that as my datum. With a raised-tie roof I reckon I should have close to 11 feet in the centre stretch. I want to make more films so I want my lighting to be as high as possible.

It can't have done any harm by having an existing building that was almost as big and just as high to the eaves. I'm just replacing it, adding a modestly-pitched roof and making the neighbourhood a rather prettier place into the bargain.
Win-win.


----------



## Paul Chapman

Looking great, Steve.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

did you get in date fuel cells for the paslode?


----------



## Steve Maskery

The one I bought last week is still in date. Just. September this year. It's not fired a single nail and feels empty, but they are so small anyway it's difficult to know how heavy they should feel.
But I have 3 fuel cells with the machine that I have been using.
I have another friend I help at the Community Workshop. "I've got one you could have borrowed", says he. So I'll try his and see if it behaves any better.


----------



## johnny

its looking grand Steve ! Difficult to gauge the size from the pics ...how big is it ? 

Don't want to send you any negative vibes but I have to ask ... does it have Planning permission ? I have been checking permitted development for outbuildings for my shed rebuilding and as far as I can make out if an outbuilding is within 2 metres of a boundary then no part of it can exceed 2.5 mt height. ? 
This is an excerpt from the section of Planning I have been designing my shed by .

'Outbuildings are considered to be permitted development, not needing planning permission, subject to the following limits and conditions:


Outbuildings and garages to be single storey with maximum eaves height of 2.5 metres and maximum overall height of four metres with a dual pitched roof or three metres for any other roof.
Maximum height of 2.5 metres in the case of a building, enclosure or container *within two metres of a boundary of the curtilage of the dwellinghouse*.
No more than half the area of land around the "original house"* would be covered by additions or other buildings.'


----------



## RogerP

johnny
Did you not see Steve's post 4 back from yours?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes I have PP for 8m x 8m, 3m to the eaves, 4.5 overall. I am a little inside that.
S


----------



## johnny

RogerP":281xx6ob said:


> johnny
> Did you not see Steve's post 4 back from yours?



no obviously not :wink: I started my post before Steves post and cooked dinner in between times :roll: I should have checked what had been posted in the intervening time . Apologies
Steve. very glad to hear it. Our neighbour's builders ignored the height restriction and she nearly had to remove a £8000 wendy house when her neighbours objected :roll:


----------



## Graham Orm

Looking fantastic Steve. Paslodes are susceptible to damp. It affects the circuitry. I've had a similar problem with mine. I had what appeared to be in date gas. I changed to brand new gas and it worked perfectly.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Aaaggghhhh! I'm pulling my hair out.
Will someone PLEEEAAASE explain to me why plywood and OSB are 8' x 4' but plasterboard is 2.4m x 1.2m? They are not the same.
I've built my walls on 2' centres, the American way (well the Advanced Framing way, I'll grant you a lot is still done on 16" centers (sic)), which means that my outside sheathing fits well, horizontally from stud 1 to stud 5. But if I use plasterboard for the inside then I am going to be 40mm shy of the centre of a stud and will either have to add some support or waste nearly 2' of board. It's bonkers. If I'd built on 600mm centres then I would have had to trim every single board of OSB. It's just crazy.
So I think I'm going to board with OSB both outside and inside, then board again with plasterboard. It will give a better job, I accept, but it shouldn't be so flippin' difficult.
Frustrated Steve
PS 3 more bags of insulation today. It might be free but it's messing up the inside of my car.


----------



## The Bear

Steve why do you want platerboard? Would have thought OSB on its own would be much better than just plasterboard, meaning you can put a fixing/nail/screw anywhere you want to on the inside. What am I missing?

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, nothing from that point of view. But plasterboard is much better as a fire retardant and will give a smoother wall finish. OK I don't NEED that, but my last workshop had just painted breeze block and it was a pain from a dust point of view. I want smoooooooth.
S


----------



## Mark A

Plasterboard's good for sound insulation too, isn't it?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I believe so. I don't want my neighbours to be disturbed by me and I don't want to hear them. One of them shouts all the time. ALL the time. She has been very helpful but she has a loud voice and doesn't know how to keep it down. Her children will probably have hearing problems when they grow up. It drives me nuts (as the Scotsman said...)
S


----------



## The Bear

I have a neighbour like that. I find I the sound of the thicknesser helps drown her out!

Mark


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## Myfordman

Will the budget stretch to low-cost ply for the interior. This is what I've used and it takes cheap paint to give a fairly smooth finish and strong enough to mount wall cupboards on with necessarily searching out studs..
hth
MM


----------



## Steve Maskery

HI MM
I didn't think there was such a thing as low-cost ply  What thickness did you use?
Currently I'm expecting to have 11mm OSB with 12.5mm PB on top.
S


----------



## The Bear

Steve do you have anywhere near you that does second hand ply. My shed is lined with 18mm ply that came down from building site temporary boundary fencing. Surprisingly good nick (the paint saves a lot of water ingress), just needs de-nailing sometimes if you can cope with nail holes. It was all useable, just a few bashed corners. My workshop is like your old one, painted blocks.

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Mark
I've not seen that anywhere round here.
I'd be happy with it if I could.
S


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## Myfordman

Steve Maskery":2y5q5sap said:


> HI MM
> I didn't think there was such a thing as low-cost ply  What thickness did you use?
> Currently I'm expecting to have 11mm OSB with 12.5mm PB on top.
> S


I used 18mm. It had a few voids and rather thick core plies and the backside was awful. Only marginally better than shuttering grade. I got a bit better stuff for the floor which has stood up well to having heavy machines wheels about on it. I got it from Jewsons who gave me a pretty good discount at the time (2006)
I used cheap toolsatan emulsion on the walls and two coats of their waterbased clear floor varnish

MM


----------



## billybuntus

My sheds lined with 12mm MDF. Not sure how it compares cost wise but it's smooth and is absolutely fine with a painted finish.

I can also screw straight into it for shelving etc.


----------



## rafezetter

I would personally go with the OSB - / gypsum board route - or some other mismatched materials. The reason being that from a sound reduction point, each different material reduces the transmission of different sound wave lengths, therefore being more effective together than each alone.

I went into some fairly indepth reaserch to find out what are good off the shelf sound reduction materials with the most economic sound reduction : cost ratio.

Concreteboard (aqua panel) has the best sound reduction, but isn't that cheap and the same for MDF of a decent thickness for equivalent reduction (25mm), so the cheaper option of OSB with it's voids that helps redirect sound waves, and the gypsum as a non vibratory material, - compared to plywood that under the right circumstances will turn into a sounding board and AMPLIFY the waves bouncing about - would be a good reasonably cheap option and have the added dust advantage to boot.

The only thing that would increase it's sound transmission reduction effectiveness would be to create an air gap of an inch or so between the osb and the gypsum, this will also help with insulation too as heat conducts far less through an air gap than contact.

You might also consider making some sound baffles for the ceiling to reduce other reverberation. (although might be a bit of a dust magnet)

http://www.mixonline.com/online_extras/sound_absorbing_materials/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Knauf-Sou...0-sheets-/200559220836?_trksid=p2054897.l4275


----------



## kostello

Let the boards miss the studs...
Fix it so the boards are horizontal... Screw 12mm ply strips 100mm wide across the join to hold it all together


----------



## Charlie Woody

Steve Maskery":3041g43m said:


> Yes I have PP for 8m x 8m, 3m to the eaves, 4.5 overall. I am a little inside that.
> S



Heck, that is an American sized 'shop :roll: Is that allowed on this side of the pond? Think of the envy you are causing to your fellow UK woodworkers!


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":38zn8rtg said:


> PS 3 more bags of insulation today.



I thought my kids had all the games, I guess it's another I'll have to buy.

Going well Steve, keep up the good work


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ooh, I'm beginning to hear sound of envy 
Thank you all for your input I'll keep you posted on what I eventually decide.


----------



## PAC1

Steve
I counter battened the inside with 3 x1 sawn. It gives a one inch air gap something to fix the plasterboard to and something to fix those heavy cabinets and other things you want to fix on the walls. It also gives you somewhere to run the electrics out the way of the insulation. Sadly it will not keep the sound of your neighbour out!


----------



## OLD

Plaster board is cheap so cut to size does this work better with it landscape and some noggins etc.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

If you're not going to end up with walls that will take a direct and heavy fixing then at a minimum I would run a strip of 4x2 noggins at upper cupboard fixing height right the way round the room. Then, though hidden, you will always know what height above ground level you can afford to drive an 80mm or similar screw without having to guff around finding the studs. Failing that, brainstorm a really rough plan so you know the likely spots where eye level storage might go and noggin those zones.


----------



## Cowboy _Builder

Steve ,as others have said ......Instead of fixing your plaster board vertically run some 4x1 sawn round at 2ft centres and fix the plasterboard horizontally this will give you a continuous solid fixing at 6ft and another at 8ft an ideal height for cupboards and dangly things and it works out a lot cheaper than fixing OSB underneath .
I'm in Spain and France working for the next 6 weeks so I will expect you to have that bit of a shed finished by the time I get back .


----------



## fishpat86

Steve Maskery":1p99kz0w said:


> View attachment 613
> 
> 
> but an all-concrete base.
> View attachment 614



Very jealous of your project. I will be laying a concrete base for my gym shed soon and I am wondering how you finished the concrete. Is it just tamped with a piece of wood or did you use a bull float?


----------



## morfa

I've been going through similar choices recently. And honestly I haven't figured out what to do either. This is my list:

WBP Plywood, 18mm - the 'luxury' choice - pros - can fix to anywhere, looks good (i.e. smooth). Cons - cost!

12mm OSB with plasterboard over the top - pros - can still probably fix to anywhere, smooth, not too expensive. Cons - more hassle to install, still not cheap, fixing still ok?

fire retardent plasterboard - pros, cheap, quick and easy to install, smooth. Cons - fixing stuff is an issue.

Dunno if that helps you any?

Also I'm planning on putting celotex the otherside of that. Currently not sure how to ventilate either.


----------



## Doug B

I had the same problem re 8' & 2.4 boards as I set the A frame roof out so I could sark the outside with ply, when it came to the inside I used OSB fixed to the rafters then a layer of 1" insulation board & then screwed plasterboard on top.

This has worked out really well, it's meant whenever I want to fix something to the ceiling I don't have to worry about finding a fixing with the added bonus that hardly any noise escapes from the workshop even when the planer & extractor are running in combination. I should add there is also about 4" of insulation in the roof voids.

If you fancy having a look Steve I'm in the shop tomorrow afternoon(Wednesday)


----------



## Steve Maskery

fishpat86":1ztifiuj said:


> Very jealous of your project. I will be laying a concrete base for my gym shed soon and I am wondering how you finished the concrete. Is it just tamped with a piece of wood or did you use a bull float?



Don't be jealous, it's come at a very high price, actually.

It was tamped with a length of 6x2. It's not perfectly flat, but it's not bad either, 5 or 6mm max deviation over 8m.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Morfa, thanks for that. I need to do some sums.

Doug, I'd love to come over. I have a committee meeting tomorrow afternoon at the Community Workshop, but I'll come over afterwards if we finish on time (and we usually do). I'll give you a call.

S


----------



## beech1948

Another thing to consider is that you could hang stuff from french cleats around the walls even heavy stuff and move to new locations at will. I covered three walls of my workshop with plasterboard and then added the french cleats on three walls starting from 600mm above floor level to 300mm below the roof line. Its worked out well over the past 10yrs and was a good economical use of 18mm ply.

Al


----------



## Steve Maskery

HI Al
Yes, I had a continuous french cleat all around my previous shop. As you say, it's good for redesigning layout. I'll probably do the same again regardless of what I end up deciding.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Cowboy _Builder":3bc40ue1 said:


> Steve ,as others have said ......Instead of fixing your plaster board vertically run some 4x1 sawn round at 2ft centres and fix the plasterboard horizontally this will give you a continuous solid fixing at 6ft and another at 8ft an ideal height for cupboards and dangly things and it works out a lot cheaper than fixing OSB underneath .


I might well be in touch with you about that. Thank you.



Cowboy _Builder":3bc40ue1 said:


> I'm in Spain and France working for the next 6 weeks so I will expect you to have that bit of a shed finished by the time I get back .



BIT OF A SHED?????


S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yesterday I started demolishing my new workshop.

I'd managed to get a stud in exactly the wrong place at one side of the personnel door, so I decided to cut out the stud a few inches from the bottom. It came out easily enough, but I did notice that as it hung from its top nails it was about 20mm over to the west, compared to its erstwhile bottom end. Alarm bells started to ring. A quick test showed that the front wall is leaning westward a little. I had altered the bracing a bit and I assume it had moved a bit when I did that, because we were quite careful when we erected it all. Anyway it is all secure and it will right itself once I get the box headers in place.

So I cut a new stud and toe-nailed it at the bottom. Up a ladder it was easy to nail it normally through the top plate. I've borrowed another Paslode from a mate at the Community Workshop and it is wonderful. Bang, bang, bang. Right First Time Every Time, you might say 

So by sundown I had the stud in the right place, two trimmer studs and a non-load-bearing header above it.

Sorry, I didn't take any pictures, but I've done the same to the garage doorway today and it looks a bit like this:






The roof trusses will sit directly over the studs. But over the doorways there is a span that is not supported. If we mount the trusses only on the top plate the lot will come crashing down. So we have to provide what the Americans call a header and what we might call a lintel. Something that spans the doorway and is strong enough to support the load above it.

IIUIC, the Americans use a rule of thumb which says that the header should be as deep in inches as the span is in feet. So an 8ft garage doorway would have an 8" header above it. That then supports an array of short studs, called cripples, up to the top plate.

Another option, and it's the one I have chosen, is to make a box-section header. OSB is very strong indeed through its width. You see girders made of the stuff. So I started to make a box.

I cut two pieces of OSB to fill the rectangular opening above the doorway. My nice long track was one of the things that was stolen along with my Festool shopvac, so this week I've bought replacements, but I've bought the 2.7m track rather than the 2.4, which was just that bit too short to cut a standard sheet. It's expensive, I know, but actually it is worth every penny.

There are a couple of things to notice in this photo. The first is the track setting gauge that I use. It allows me to get the track perfectly parallel to the edge and by a specific distance. Unfortunately I appear to be blocking it somewhat. The second if the knock-down table I use. This was posted several years ago on this form by Tiddles. It's all cut from a single sheet and works brilliantly. I could do with it being a couple of inches higher, I think, so, as this on has taken something of a battering whilst it has been in store, I think I'll make myself a Mk II version once I'm installed.







So then I cut a 6x2 and a 4x2. I laid them across the garage door opening and marked off and cut them together so they were identical.






I then laid them on a sheet of OSB to mark that. But I was about to trim rather more than I thought I should. Tape measure. Head scratcher. Plonker. I'd cut the timbers between the trimmer studs and I should have cut them over the studs. They were too short. As I appeared to have mislaid my board-stretcher I had to cut another two, but of course, I'd selected the best, straightest, first time round. I'm getting towards the end of my stock and some of the remaining boards are good at doing banana impressions.

So, mistake rectified, I glued and nailed the 6x2 to the bottom edge of one of them.






When I came to fix the 4x2, it was shy of the edge in the middle by quite a bit, so I got a trigger clamp, reversed the head and sprung it back so that it was flush. I'm so glad that these clamps weren't stolen, they are excellent. Back on the market, too, after something of an absence, but unfortunately not at the price they used to be.






I fixed intermediate studs, the equivalent of the cripples, at intervals, so that the trusses will sit over them inside the box and filled the voids with Kingspan. This is the stuff I've been scavenging from the old-folks refurb along the road. It's 60mm thick and I need 45mm for this job, so there is a lot of cutting. I used my bread knife. It's surprisingly hard to cut this stuff, not because it is hard, it isn't, but because it has a very high coefficient of friction. So it took ages:






But when done it looked like this:






And finally, with the other face glued and nailed, I had a finished header strong enough to hold up the world.






I just need Ray to help me get it up, it's too heavy to manipulate on my own. I can just about lift it, but not carry it up a ladder.

And finally, I thought you'd like to see the difference between the wood I'm putting in and the wood I took out:






The one on the left is old-growth stuff. The rings in the new stuff, on the right, are ten times further apart.

So all in all an excellent day, apart from my car failing its MOT and needing nearly £400 work doing to fix it


----------



## Racers

Nice one Steve.

Have you tried a hardpoint saw for cutting the insulation?


Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

No I haven't, I might do that. But with a bread knife there is no sawdust. Perhaps that's why it is such a drag, there is no kerf to speak of. I had thought of a Jap saw, but not tried that either.
S


----------



## brianhabby

Hi Steve, 

That knock down table looks interesting, do you happen to have a link to the original post you referred to please? 

Also, you mention the bread knife for cutting the insulation but is it a normal bread knife? If so have you tried an electric one, the blades rub against each other and should cut it with very little effort and no dust to speak of. 

regards 

Brian


----------



## marcros

Have a search for sore hoarse. It was something along those lines- I will see if I can find it.

Edit

sore-hoarses-mkii-now-with-added-plans-t44761.html


----------



## wcndave

I used a Japanese saw and it worked well.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## kostello

I've heard that an electric carving knife works well


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## brianhabby

Thanks marcros,

regards

Brian


----------



## monkeybiter

Knock down table:-

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/sore-hoarses-mkii-now-with-added-plans-t44761.html


----------



## Shrubby

Cracking on Steve - good stuff
To cut insulation foam I like the Bosch wavy knife blade T313AW
Matt


----------



## Doug B

Track saw is great for insulation, very quick & fairly dust free with extraction


----------



## scholar

Racers":34u4t2qf said:


> Nice one Steve.
> 
> Have you tried a hardpoint saw for cutting the insulation?
> 
> 
> Pete




Bandsaw every time for me cutting that stuff

Cheers


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes but I can't use my bandsaw bandsaw until I've built my workshop workshop!


----------



## petermillard

Doug B":3rbvvk42 said:


> Track saw is great for insulation, very quick & fairly dust free with extraction


+1. Used mine to cut all the Kingspan in my recent summerhouse project. Works a treat.


----------



## Steve Maskery

A bit more done today, chaps.

I've made the small header. Here is a better picture of the track setting gauge.





I tried the hardpoint saw for the insulation. Brilliant! 3 or 4 strokes and job done. It's a neater cut, too, than using my bread knife. Sure there is a bit of dust but not much. Thanks Pete! Notice that the internal cripple stud is off-centre. That is because the header does not span two full studs and I want it to be where the truss falls.






This is all the waste from both headers. I reckon that is quite efficient.






I figured I could manage the small header on my own. It's OK, but manipulating it up a ladder is too much, so I got my little scaffolding tower out. It was still hard work.






I nearly killed myself getting it up there. I expected it to jam, because the wall had a slight lean to it, but I hammered and hammered and it went home. I'm surprised, because although I expected it to square up the wall, I thought I'd have to release the brace first and I didn't, so I'm not quite sure how that has happened. But my studs appear to be vertical again.











Good fit or what? I tell you, that setting gauge is one of the best things I've ever come up with. It might be simple but it saves me a lot of grief. It's Right First Time Every Time 

I've covered it with polythene to keep the worst of the rain off. It's OSB3 but it is not waterproof.

I really need Ray now. And my trusses.






Steve J Maskery (well, it's becoming more American-like as it progresses, so I may as well start signing off like one!)


----------



## MickCheese

Must have been to stud genie, who had seen you were working so hard and thought it would straighten them up for you. 

Or all the hammering!

Looking very good and thanks for the blow by blow WIP.

Really enjoying the read.

Mick


----------



## KevM

Steve - that looks like thirsty work!


----------



## Steve Maskery

I forgot to mention. My neighbour came down to talk to me today, the one on the left with whom I share a drive.

"It's big!" he says. "I didn't expect it to be as big as that!"

I pointed out that the eaves will not be as high as that when it is done, some of that is in the roof. And it is only as high as the previous one was, to the eaves, anyway.

"Oh, it's OK," he says, "you've got permission and I'm not bothered. The bigger the better really, it will block out the view, make it more private". The backs of houses like these are not the prettiest of things to look at, are they? 

So that's all right then. Phew!

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

MickCheese":mauvhnm5 said:


> Looking very good and thanks for the blow by blow WIP.
> 
> Really enjoying the read.



You are welcome, Mick, I'm enjoying doing it. It's a record for me as much as anything else. Thanks for the encouragement, it's much appreciated.

Have you seen how many visits this thread has had? I'm gobsmacked. They are not all me!


----------



## MickCheese

12700 views!

As I said it's a good read and, unlike a magazine, it's free.  

Mick


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, and unlike a magazine I don't get paid a penny!


----------



## defsdoor

I'm extremely envious. A workshop was on my list of things to do this summer but my boy has been in hospital since April and will be there for another 4-5 months. As he's only 3, Mum and me are doing shifts so just about everything planned for this year has had to be put on hold.

I'm getting some great tips and ideas from this though.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Defsdoor
I'm really sorry to hear about your domestic woes. I've never been down the children route so I can only imagine. Good luck and best wishes.
But don't be envious. This has come at a very high personal price. Yes, the end result looks as if it is going to be excellent, but I would not have chosen the route to get here.
Good luck to us both, eh?
S


----------



## Woodchips2

Good luck to both of you!

Regards Keith


----------



## Peter Sefton

Steve Maskery":19qh5ovq said:


> Yes, and unlike a magazine I don't get paid a penny!



Is this what they call a loss leader? or just love of the craft?
That's the problem with you woodworkers you want to do this and pay the mortgage. 

Keep up the great work Steve all the best Peter


----------



## Steve Maskery

Love and glory, Peter, love and glory.
S
PS I live here so that I don't have a mortgage! What other reason would there be? Now if I could afford a house like this in the West Country...

Edit - Planning and looking forward to coming to your open day again.


----------



## Peter Sefton

Steve Maskery":213yop5b said:


> Love and glory, Peter, love and glory.
> S
> PS I live here so that I don't have a mortgage! What other reason would there be? Now if I could afford a house like this in the West Country...
> 
> Edit - Planning and looking forward to coming to your open day again.



Looking forward to seeing you on the 12th, feel free to bring any old or unused tools along for H4H all donations welcome!

Cheers Peter


----------



## morfa

You're making great progress on this. Can't wait to see it all finished.


----------



## Steve Maskery

8.20am I had a big lorry outside:














Then, while I waited for Ray, I nailed up a bit of 4x1, this will support the edges of the interior OSB sheathing and has to be installed before the outer sheath otherwise I won't be able to get my nailgun or hammer in place.






Then I had a nice surprise - Chris turned up with Ray and she set to on my vegetation (it's not worthy of the word "garden").

So Ray and I installed the big header I'd made. It was a bit more problematic than the small one and I was beginning to wonder if I'd made it too big.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Unfortunately, when we had eventually got it in place, I fired a few nails, but somewhere between it being in the right place and me firing, it moved. So we had to cut a couple of nails so we could get it in the right place (again).






but eventually it was right and we could remove the front brace. I re-installed on the left hand side, where the bracing was a bit low.






So now the big doorway was open and we had easy access. Well, everything is relative..

















6 down, 70 to go.

Meanwhile, Chris the Master Builder was putting right the bit of concrete we'd messed up on.






So that, ladies and gentlemen is what a thousand pounds-worth and 1.2 tonnes of OSB looks like, carried 3.6 miles.






3pm:






Right now I can hardly move. I need to buy shares in Radox.

Trusses are due on Friday next week, so if anyone is available either on the Friday for unloading or Saturday for getting them up, you will be very welcome.


----------



## woodshavings

Steve,
This is a brilliant thread - it is my required reading!
I just want to thank you for taking the trouble to post and show your progress, particularly considering the issues you have had to contend with.
John


----------



## Steve Maskery

You are welcome. Actually it is good therapy, I can look back and see my own progress. But the encouragement is welcome, nonetheless. I do sometime wonder if I am just building a folly, TBH. If it is, it's an expensive one! I hope it turns out to be better than that.
S


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2qo7tcmc said:


> I do sometime wonder if I am just building a folly, TBH. If it is, it's an expensive one! I hope it turns out to be better than that.
> S



Definitely not. Forgive me for intruding but while you'll still probably have good days and bad days, the workshop will be waiting for you when you're feeling positive and motivated. 

Stay positive and keep the momentum up, life will be so much better 'with' than 'without'.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I really do believe that. Most days!
S


----------



## Shultzy

I've been watching your build with interest, brings back memories of my workshop build in 2007. All the backache and stress is worth while when its "finished" , then again will it ever be finished, I'm still "fettling" it 7 years on :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Chris is into gardening and last weekend they went on an Open Gardens trail. 14 gardens!
In one, there were little signs dotted about. Apparently one said "A garden is never fini...". A good motto, methinks.
S


----------



## lanemaux

Well Steve , if it helps , your project is cheering me up a great deal amigo. When I got ill a couple of years ago my gardening shed and it's attendant wood pile was sort of abandoned. Not a real tragedy about the wood as it was my reclaimed softwood planks from pallets , no real value or loss there. However , now that I'm on my feet for brief periods , we (the wife and I) cleared the rotten mess from the side of the shed. Wait a second where is the side of the shed? When we reached the level of the skids they were on , voila , critter and water had put paid to the OSB sheathing. Here you are putting up your new shop, all I need to do is some repair work. I figure I'm coming off easy here , this shouldn't take too long methinks . So thanks for outworking me amigo , your build is an inspiration to the likes of me. Oh and just to be clear, I did not put the little monstrosity up in the first place, that's on the previous tenant. You should see the plumbing in my basement , OUCH!!!


----------



## Bluekingfisher

It's going to be quite a notable structure. I hope you have understanding neighbours?


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Possibly the only workshop visible from space!!


----------



## GLFaria

Steve, you are doing an amazing work - and proving you have some very good friends, which I am sure you deserve.

One can't be envious if one's not certain he would be willing to go to the end of the same effort - I most certainly wouldn't, therapy or not. That shed - but is that a shed or a cottage?  - looks larger than my 7th floor appartment (but I do have a splendid view...)

Thank you very much for documenting and sharing your experience (easier to look at than to do :wink: )


----------



## Doug B

Random Orbital Bob":1w56n9i7 said:


> Possibly the only workshop visible from space!!



I got to see the build so far on Monday & the photos make it look bigger than it is :-" :-" but not by much :lol: 

Any news on the trusses Steve?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Doug! You've destroyed my JIR*!
Trusses are due a week tomorrow. How are you fixed?
S

*Jealosy-Inducing Rating


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I've fitted most of the noggins. 

When I cut the studs I cut them 2.9m from a 3.6m board. The bits left over are now being used for the noggins.

Because the studs are not perfectly straight and true, each noggin has to be cut for its position. So I cut a couple of height spacers and clamped them to the studs.







I can then mark the distance at that point. Here I'm marking on the right from the left, but I found it was more efficient to mark on the left from the right, that way I don't have to use a square to mark across the board, I can locate the saw blade directly on the pencil mark.






Whilst it is easy to nail in from one side:






It's not so..... ah. My camera battery failed and my replacement was dead too. So I carried on and took these photos afterwards. They are staged after the event and on this one, for example, I forgot to replace the supports for the photo. Anyway, the point is to show that for one end I have to toe-nail the joints.






A couple of times the Paslode fired two nails at once:






And here, if I needed one, is a reminder why it is a good idea to use supports rather than just holding it up in my hand. It's not easy to see, but it is the end of the nail coming out rather too far.






You may have spotted in one of the upper photos that in some places there is something of a gap at the end of the noggins. This is because some - well, many, actually - of the studs are twisted and warped. So a square-ended noggin doesn't necessarily look a good fit.






One was so bad I altered the cut to compensate.


----------



## Steve Maskery

From those 3.6 studs, this is all the waste there is:






I went round and did the job all over again at the upper level, but there are no photos of that as my camera has a ten-second delay but not a ten-minute one.....

The level is pretty good, but I still have a kink. This is because one of the studs is badly sprung. The centre is closer to the inside of the building that it should be. I don't think there is much I can do about it now, I should have been more careful in selecting my timber. It means I shall have a bulge in my wall . Mind you, if that is the worst that goes wrong in this caper I think I'll have got away with things quite well.






So now it looks like this:











You'll notice that I have not done the end ones on either wall. That is because some silly person went and nailed supports for the internal walls, so now I have to either notch away my noggins or tear down those supports and re-install them after fitting the end noggins. What sort of sawdust-brain would have done a thing like that, eh?


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Looking good Steve 

why didn't you noggin alternately above and below a level line? Then you can paslode through the stud into each and every noggin.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, but the noggins are there to support the edges of the OSB sheathing. If they were staggered then they would support only one sheet, not both.

S


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## OLD

This bulge due to a bad stud, my guess is that you are getting very tired because you know that its needs fixing and how to fix it .I think you should take a rest and plan your next portion of work ,because you will always know you could have sorted it to your complete satisfaction and it will bug you in the future.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm not sure I do know how to fix it, short of cutting it out and replacing it. Ah, I see. That's how I fix it.
You may well be right. You certainly are about the fatigue part of your analysis, I literally rolled out of bed this morning, I couldn't actually bend my back to sit up.
S


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Yes. It'll come back to bite you.


----------



## monkeybiter

Depending on time and energy [and how far it deviates] you could plane the bow in situ close enough to true to never notice. Especially if you have/can borrow a power plane.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ooh, that's a good idea. It would remove the tanalising, but it is on the inside not the outside and I could re-do it with the green Ronseal stuff I bought.

I think I do have a planer. Mine went, but I'm pretty sure that some generous person has given me one. To my shame I can't remember who. Nor exactly where I've put it, but there can't be many places I could have hidden it. I certainly have not parted with it. I need to hunt. I think that would be a good solution. A hollow on the outside doesn't matter anywhere near as much as a bulge on the inside. I could even shim out the outside sheath with wedges if I were being really fastidious.

Thanks for the idea. I like it a lot more than the idea of cutting out a stud, especially as my few remaining 6x2s are the dregs of the original stock...

S


----------



## Graham Orm

Great job Steve, as is everyone, I'm watching with interest. Have you thought about heating? I know it's a while away, just thought I'd throw in the mix Rocket Stoves. Burn scrap wood at a much slower rate than a wood burner, create far more heat, all with zero emissions....no smoke so no one will know you have it running, and no complaints about smells....and no heating bills!!!

The design allows it to reburn it's own smoke, it's this function that will give you 400 degrees plus at the top from just scraps.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes I do like the idea of a Rocket Stove. It does tend to take up a bit of space though, if you build a horizontal version, which is the most efficient, I believe.
I think I'm going to insulate it as best I can. I have quite a lot of insulation scraps already and there may be more. Unfortunately my supply has temporarily dried up because one of the guys fitting the insulation is building an extension and is taking it for himself. How very dare he! I scrounged first!
So I may just see what it is like with a small electric heater. As Doug pointed out, any open flame heater in a wooden workshop may have an impact on any insurance...


----------



## xy mosian

Great WIP Steve, I look in often.
Thinking of the studding and the bent ones. If you are using any of these as a support for the vertical edges of boards, will you not lose material to fix to? I was thinking that you might use the noggins to straighten the studs. Measure noggin length at floor level and coerce the studs to be straight.
Keep up the good work.
xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi xy
I didn't understand your post when I first read it, but I think I do now. The noggins are not bowed (or if they are it is not much of a problem), it's the sprung ones that are the problem. One in particular.
I'll sort it, one way or another.
S


----------



## xy mosian

Sorry Steve,
I assumed that if noggins were not all the same length, then the studs must be bent sideways to the wall surface. hence my concern about the edges of the boards.

Try and enjoy the job!

xy


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":snyebeex said:


> Yes I do like the idea of a Rocket Stove. It does tend to take up a bit of space though, if you build a horizontal version, which is the most efficient, I believe.
> I think I'm going to insulate it as best I can. I have quite a lot of insulation scraps already and there may be more. Unfortunately my supply has temporarily dried up because one of the guys fitting the insulation is building an extension and is taking it for himself. How very dare he! I scrounged first!
> So I may just see what it is like with a small electric heater. As Doug pointed out, any open flame heater in a wooden workshop may have an impact on any insurance...



Yes agreed, but its behind a closeable door. Mine is made from 2 old calor gas bottles. Doesn't take up much room.


----------



## Racers

Can you cut through it and nail a scrap piece across the join, after pushing it straight?

Pete


----------



## OLD

'You may well be right. You certainly are about the fatigue part of your analysis,'
You need to take a break man at least 2 days. Solutions which would be quickly resolved when you are fit can be almost impossible or the solutions to elaborate when tired out. I and many others reading these posts will have undergone this in the past .So just remember large jobs are a lot of small jobs put together and when you go back to it those 2 days will save you time they will not be lost.


----------



## Doug B

Steve Maskery":10qklctb said:


> Trusses are due a week tomorrow. How are you fixed?



Should be in Sutton next week so no problems, just give me a bit of notice & I can pop over


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## Phil Pascoe

Get yourself a pack of plastic spacers and maybe a pack of plastic wedges - they will save you ages.


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## Steve Maskery

It's been pointed out to me, by more than one person, politely and in a kindly manner that I have been a bit of a plonker.

Apparently you don't have to stagger the noggings with 3 gs by very much to be able to nail in from the ends.







I'll try that on the front and back. I'm not doing them though until the trusses are up, we may well want to poke the ends out as we get them up and the fewer obstacles there are the better.

I'm learning so much by doing this. If only I'd known it all beforehand...

S


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2egz97zj said:


> the front and back. I'm not doing them though until the trusses are up, we may well want to poke the ends out as we get them up and the fewer obstacles there are the better.
> S



Now that's excellent forethought!


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've been down the garden and had a bit of a think and a hunt.
There is only the one stud that is badly sprung, the rest look OK. And I've found a piece of 6x2 that is straight, at least in that direction. So I think I shall replace the stud.
It's piddling down here today, though, so it will have to wait, but I think it will be worth fixing.
S


----------



## Cowboy _Builder

Hi Steve , you're doing the right thing replacing that stud , because It would have annoyed you forever and I would have picked up on it when I come to inspect progress at the end of the July ...and just to pee you off it's about 36c here in Spain today ...way to hot to be outside and I'll be stuck here and in France for another month .


----------



## Chrispy

This is a very interesting thread and a fine workshop you are building with a good following but in that respect it's still way short of the SOD which I see is still going strong.


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## Steve Maskery

Suddenly I don't feel so incompetent.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

This afternoon I've been putting right cock-ups.
You can see how badly sprung the stud was, I can almost get my thumb underneath.






One of the advantages of toe-nailing is that it is easy to dismantle!






With the noggings removed I could cut through the stud and pull it out.











So then I could nail the new one in place. Spot the deliberate mistake?






Yes, that is entirely the wrong stud. I should be nailing to one to the right of it. Plonker.

I found that the stud to the right of the new one was also very wonky. The twist is so bad that I fear that it will not support the board edges properly. 






But The other studs I have are not a lot better, to be honest, so I decided to untwist it. I simply took out the noggings and used a sash clamp to pull the end square. Well squarer, anyway. It's not perfect but it is a lot better.

So now that stud looks like this:





I've been down the wall and it varies by no more than a few millimetres now. It's not perfect, but short of putting every stud and nogging through the planer/thicknesser to get them exactly the same width, I don't see how it can be. Some of the noggings are 3mm wider than some of the studs, so there will always be some meandering.

So with that fixed I started on those end noggins. I decided to cut a notch in them to go round my plasterboard supports:











I only had time to do two, I've got to get the pinny on for friends this evening.


----------



## Graham Orm

Good stuff Steve. That's a great look you've got going there, sort of Bjorn Borg meets Rambo.


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## Peter Sefton

I would say if you have only found a couple of bent and twisted studs you have done very well Steve. It's good to see it taking shape.
Cheers Peter


----------



## Owl

Steve, as a non woodworker I find this thread very interesting and virtually compulsive to read, as the saying goes: the pictures are worth a thousand words ..... keep up the good work  

Incidently, who is taking the photos ?


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## Steve Maskery

Thank you.
Well I'm taking most of the photos, but some are taken by whoever else is helping me. So when Chris and Ray came last week, Chris took some. But mostly it's me using the timer.

I've been out this morning and finished those end noggings, but I've brought everything in as the sky is a black as the night.

S


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## Graham Orm

Looking great Steve. Hope there's not too much movement in the frame when it's weather tight and it dries out a bit. Keep up the WIP very addictive! ;-)


----------



## Charlie Woody

Steve Maskery said:


> A bit more done today, chaps.
> 
> I've made the small header. Here is a better picture of the track setting gauge.
> .......
> 
> 
> ............ I tell you, that setting gauge is one of the best things I've ever come up with. It might be simple but it saves me a lot of grief. It's Right First Time Every Time  ......
> 
> Steve I made one of those today following our conversation. Not only is it so much more accurate but also miles faster than tape measure & pencil!!! I am seriously impressed, thanks a million!


----------



## Steve Maskery

We aim to please....

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today we have started to put on the sheathing. 

We started by cutting a 30 deg bevel on the bottom edge of the bottom row of boards. This is to stop any water wicking up on the inside face.











And as we had a load of DPC removed from the old building we did a belt & braces job by stapling it to the bottom of the studwork.

We put the bottom row of sheathing in roughly with just a few nails so that we were going to be sure that it fitted. When we were happy that it did, we nailed it down properly.











The bevel looks like this when installed:





So after the first row we did it all again further up. We staggered the boards like brickwork. We used plastic packers to give the required 3mm gap between boards.






We also installed one board on each end of the back wall. This is to give some racking resistance to the back wall when we take those braces off, which we are going to have to do to get the trusses up.

So now this is the west wall (left as we look from the house)






and this is the east.






Talking of trusses, the truss company have managed to double-book their lorries and I can no longer have my expected Friday delivery. It's coming at 2pm tomorrow instead. Now that is fine, except that I had a team lined up for Friday and a couple of people who had planned to be available to help me cannot now do so. Fortunately I think we do have enough muscle, but I really don't like messing people about.

We have dug out a raised bed that is in the daftest of places. It makes getting down the side of the cabin awkward. I forgot to take a Before photo, but now it looks like this:






So tomorrow we can open the gate and get down the side in pretty much a straight line.


----------



## Graham Orm

Good stuff Steve, good luck with the trusses.


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## OLD

Trusses you may find this utube interesting about one third in where they fit them 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mkwbqObws8


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I felt good about mine until I watched all that! :mrgreen: It's more than twice the size of mine.

I don't like his roughcast finish very much but I do like his floor and was interested to hear him putting in floor and ceiling outlets. I'm planning to do the same. But 200 Amps is twice the size I have for my entire house!

Also I agree about windows. Originally I was planning 3 velux in the north slope of the roof, but they make the ceiling more complex. Then I thought about having three clerestory windows facing the house. They would be south-facing, which, as he discusses, is a pain for filming, but under the eaves, so at least it would not be direct light.

But I'm now veering towards having no windows at all, but three sun-tubes in the roof. I want natural light for working, but controlled illumination for filming. They are about the same price as Velux windows. And the fewer apertures there are in the building the fewer opportunities there are for Little Scrotes. I do expect to be visited. The house over the road is now boarded up because it was burgled while workmen were renovating it, after being empty for a couple of years. Four break-ins in one week.

I was interested in his roof. Those tiles look heavy. They don't overlap very much, do they? I was going to sheath the roof and use felt shingles, but Ray has pointed me to man-made slate product, which works out about the same price per square metre, but is much quicker to install, will last longer and will look more like the original slate rooves of the properties around here (although most of them, including mine, have had the original slate rooves replaces by modern concrete tiles). The other advantage is that they are designed to be used without sheathing, so provided I brace the roof properly, I'll save myself a few hundred quid in OSB, not to mention the work involved in fitting it. I have already bought 18mm OSB for the job, but it can be used either on the internal walls or underneath the top layer of flooring.

Right, I have some work to do. Trusses arriving in less than three hours.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

On the issue of burglary a policeman friend of mine gave me some very sage advice some 20 years ago. The vast majority (unlike American Heist movies) are opportunistic with the scrotes after drug money etc. So they take the path of least resistance. Thus all you have to do to provide a deterrent is make your building a more difficult target than the one next door. 

When I was building the house I currently live in my copper friend told me to install the outside flashing lightbox bit of a burglar alarm as an interim measure before we had the proper alarm installed. So we did, it was battery operated and all it did was have 2 flashing lights. The would be scrote didn't know that though 

Longer term you really should plan on installing a proper movement sensor infra red alarm system. They're not very expensive and work extremely well save the odd spider setting them off that's way too big for its own good. When you consider you may have £30K plus worth of kit in there, I doubt you'll get insured if you don't get one anyway. You also know what its like personally right? Not nice, so IMO that's the right path.


----------



## Graham Orm

What about break ins through the roof if it's tiled Steve? Mine is modern corrugated sheet (squared sections). I've added 2" angle iron bolted through the walls. all the way round the perimeter so it can't be lifted.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Bob - My bil said that years ago. He had a system that in his words was crepe, but there were six houses on his street and he had the only alarm. All he had to do was make his house more difficult than the house next door.
I'm going to put "smile you're on candid camera" signs up. "Smartwater" (there are others available) systems are not expensive, and well worth looking into - you can sometimes get discounts on your insurance. Virtually everything I own worth more than £30 is marked, including the boy's tennis racket, phone, I pod etc.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

That's it...just up the anti on the risk the burglar thinks he's taking and they literally just go next door. The thing is there are enough people that take no security measures whatsoever to make it easy for the opportunistic thief.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Have a look on Youtube for "Inferno". It's pretty impressive.

This morning I put right another couple of cock-ups. I didn't realise yesterday that I had been a bit gung-ho with the Paslode and had sacrificed accuracy for speed:







so I went round and sorted that out. It was in a couple of places.

Trusses. Well Truss-Tech rang at about 12 to say that the driver had returned early from his previous drop and could he come early. I said I had a team ready at 2pm. If he wanted to come earlier, that's fine, as long as he doesn't mind hanging around until folks arrive.

So he turned up at one and there were just the two of us. 






"That's OK", he says, "we'll manage". We he might be used to doing this all day but I'm not. Fortunately Bob arrived in the nick of time, though with a bad shoulder he was not expecting to lift anything heavier than a camera. But soon after, Ray appeared, too.


----------



## Steve Maskery

So with them all off the lorry and safely stacked against the house, we had to get them down the garden. Doug B and his son turned up, too, which was a great help. Even if Doug did rub it in a bit by carrying one truss down the garden all on his own. I wanted him to repeat it for a photo but it didn't happen.






The only snag with what they have supplied is that there are some boards of OSB for bracing, but they are 2.4 x 1.2 rather than 8x4. So they are not going to fit. I did tell them they were on 2' centres not 600mm. They are no use to me. So they are going back.

So this is where we are now. We plan to raise them on Saturday. I have a team of 6 lined up, which should be enough. We have one scaffold tower high enough and some ladders. It should be an interesting day...


----------



## Woodchips2

OLD":1zbzo9l1 said:


> Trusses you may find this utube interesting about one third in where they fit them
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mkwbqObws8


This video is well worth watching if you want to see American construction methods. The nail gun is huge! All the different trades seem to work at a fast rate and the erection of the trusses was interesting and innovative.

Thanks for the link, I really enjoyed the whole 30 minutes.

Regards Keith


----------



## PAC1

Steve, those look heavy trusses
As for the "cock ups" they are "design developments" or if more serious "modifications". It seems to me to be going very well. 
In relation to windows I would want them as I would not want to be in a windowless environment for any length of time. You could always install internal shutters and daylight lamps for filming


----------



## renderer01

Hello Steve, lol Im not gonna hassle you, seems you have a lot on your plate. One thing mate seriously think of the damage you will do to yourself if you fall again and think of the good advice you would give to someone else in the same position. That being said get on with it. SAFELY MATE.

All the best matey.
Rend.


----------



## Lons

Steve, if you don't mind me putting in my twopennerth. (Great thread btw, I've followed it for ages).

Roof trusses - I always use 11mm OSB sheets for the following reasons:
1) It makes a stronger roof
2). More difficult for thieves to break though (noisier and takes longer so they don't try)
3). Better support for the underfelt (less inportant these days with synthetics) and less chance of water pooling.
4). I can fit them as quickly as other methods and can handle 11mm solo if not a windy day. I always use a nailgun btw.
5). No internal 100 x 25mm bracing necessary
6). *Much easier and safer to work on a roof with OSB as you don't need to worry so much about where you put your feet.*

The downside is that you need to fit counterbattens as well. What I do is rip down lengths of 25 thk slaters laths which works fine as it's only to raise the felt where it meets the trusses thereby avoiding possibilities of ingress via nails.

I've just done a new extension with man made fibre slates (Jewsons - Cembrit, similar to Eternit). Doddle to fit though the copper rivets are fiddly and it looks excellent.

Bob

ps
I've fitted a number of "sun tunnels" over the years and the best available IMO is the Velux suntunnel. There are cheaper ones but it's a flat profile just like a velux window, glass not plastic and gives an amazing amount of light but it isn't the cheapest. I have one in my own house btw.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you for the input guys.
I don't have a bottomless pocket for this, although it is budgeted for, by and large, and I don't want to spoil the ship for a ha'porth o'tar.
But to tell you the truth, I'm just getting more and more confused.

I hope this rain stops.
S


----------



## Doug B

Pleased to have been able to help Steve, sorry I cant do more with weekends.

Have you thought about installing a couple of windows but recessing them behind doors, similar to what I've done with my patio door, if you sited them facing the house but under the over hang it would give lots of natural light & the doors would give you security. The windows wouldn't need to be anything special as the overhang would give protection from the elements.


----------



## Steve Maskery

That might be a good idea.
It's a bit late for knocking the front wall about, stud-wise, But at 24" centres there is scope for what you are suggesting.
I'll have a think.


----------



## OLD

You seem to be still developing your design ,i think you should finalise it. We see lots of tv programs that show this is not a good way to build. Altering something on paper costs nothing. I am lucky i have a son an architect who produces great plans and they allow you to concentrate on the task in hand knowing that it will all fit and work, it takes a load off.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well yes, in principle I agree with you. And I thought that it was all decided. But if someone comes along and points out possible pitfalls, or another option which appears to be both better and cheaper, then it seems only sensible to consider them.

It was absolutely piddling it down when I got up and it is still rgey and miserable, but at least the rain itself has stopped.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

OLD":3oq8ljte said:


> You seem to be still developing your design ,i think you should finalise it. We see lots of tv programs that show this is not a good way to build. Altering something on paper costs nothing. I am lucky i have a son an architect who produces great plans and they allow you to concentrate on the task in hand knowing that it will all fit and work, it takes a load off.



 I assume he's the mythical architect we keep hearing of? The one whose plans actually work, from start to finish?


----------



## Lons

phil.p":1ltsz0ca said:


> OLD":1ltsz0ca said:
> 
> 
> 
> You seem to be still developing your design ,i think you should finalise it. We see lots of tv programs that show this is not a good way to build. Altering something on paper costs nothing. I am lucky i have a son an architect who produces great plans and they allow you to concentrate on the task in hand knowing that it will all fit and work, it takes a load off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I assume he's the mythical architect we keep hearing of? The one whose plans actually work, from start to finish?
Click to expand...


A very rare breed. I've dealt with many and not found one yet. :lol: 
Both as a supplier of materials where they've specified and then called me in when the materials won't work because they haven't absorbed the specifications fully and from a builder perspective where some of the "designs" just can't practically or safely be carried out on site. #-o


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, that was good!

We had a team of 6 today - me and Ray, Racers and his son Sam, Charlie and Keith a neighbour from up the road.

The first task was to fix some sticky-up bits at the gable end for support.







We've all seen the yanks get their trusses up upside down and flip them over, but these trusses are too heavy for that, so we "just" carried them up. Get one end onto a wall nogging, push back to clear the front end, lift right up and slide forward until the tie-rail is level.

<Brucie> And that's all there is to it </Brucie>
















We added some sticky-up bits near the ends, too.






One down, thirteen to go.






Truss clips came with them, but they are a bit flimsy. 





And we just kept going.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The scaffolding tower just clears the tie-rail






When we got close to the end we did the other gable






The last truss wasn't spaced right. Some dork can't tell the difference between 610mm and 510mm. But eventually it was all up.

Incidentally, I meant to take a photo but obviously forgot - we made a set of 4 gauge boards, effectively a couple of notched boards that slot over a pair of trusses. They keep the loose truss from falling over and ensure that the spacing is right.

We braced with pallet boards as we went and put longer diagonals on when we had enough space to do so.






Smile!






A well-earned break, but we are not finished yet.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The bracing is only temporary, the trusses come with some lengths of 4 x 1 which run the full length of the roof. Personally I prefer _terra firma_, but I was OK once I was up there.











So this is what it looks like from upstairs. I'm hoping the roofing will come on Wednesday, but I have sheathing and noggings to do yet, so I won't be twiddling my thumbs.


----------



## OLD

My point on finalising a design .If you alter a roof covering or cladding system you may have to make structural alterations and it could also affect the way you insulate so these are key things to finalise . Its always nice to have scale plans of any structure and they are also helpfull when working out materials and positioning services.
These thoughts are ment to be helpfull as i have admired your work for some years and built some of your projects the lectern for instance, all the best with the build.
As for architects i am sure your right but mine is a special relationship of full contact for problem resolution and he does great plans on autocad .


----------



## Steve Maskery

Oh I'm grateful for your input, really I am. I didn't mean to sound tetchy, not at all.


I'd forgotten about the lectern.
S


----------



## Graham Orm

You'll be hosting the next series of Gladiator in there then Steve....it's HUGE!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Do you know what, Graham, and this is going to sound very churlish, I know, but suddenly it does not seem so big. Putting the trusses up has made it feel a lot more enclosed.

I think I might start planning an extension...


----------



## Graham Orm

Behave!


----------



## PAC1

Steve Maskery":1nlvx5km said:


> Do you know what, Graham, and this is going to sound very churlish, I know, but suddenly it does not seem so big. Putting the trusses up has made it feel a lot more enclosed.
> 
> I think I might start planning an extension...



Steve it must be four times the size of your old workshop!
It is looking good. Now when is the topping out party?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Now don't exaggerate, it's not quite twice the floor area. My other was 32 ft long (not certain on that, might have been 28' - I do remember it was 2' outside 30) and varied from about 10 ft to about 12 ft, depending on where you measured it.
This is less than 25' square internally. 
I'm not sure how I'm going to cope.

Whilst I don't have a fixed time schedule for this (I'll just keep doing it until it's done), I do hope to have a Workshop Essentials Workshop Bash before the year is out.

S


----------



## Lons

Great progress Steve.
It's a real milestone once the trusses go up. Suddenly looks like a building.


----------



## woodshavings

Steve Maskery":1ihcyxp5 said:


> .....I do hope to have a Workshop Essentials Workshop Bash before the year is out.
> S



You'll need a bigger workshop!!
John


----------



## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":2lsu6m9z said:


> I think I might start planning an extension...


----------



## Steve Maskery

It was a slow start this morning. I didn't sleep very well on Saturday night, which is surprising after all that work, but I made up for it last night. So when Ray arrived this morning I wasn't yet dressed.

But he soon got me shifted.

I'm afraid there are not many photos because almost all of it was a two-man job and there isn't time to get from setting up the camera to getting us in position. So I'm afraid you will have to do with description for most of it. Sorry.

The land to the right is firm but very uneven, so we had to set up the scaffolding with adjustable legs. We offered a board up to the wall, packed out with 3mm spacers, with Ray on the scaffolding and me inside up a ladder, scribing with a pencil where the gable line is. Then down with the board and cut to shape. Whatever did we do before track saws came along?






Then it was case of picking up the scaffolding, moving it along a few feet and doing the same again. 

When we got up high, we had quite a few mis-hits with the Paslode, because it is not easy to tell from the outside where the bracing timbers are in the gable truss. But by 4pm it looked like this.











Unfortunately it also looks like this:






That shake is about 3 feet long and it shouldn't be there. We'll see what Truss-Tech say.

So we didn't get done as much as we had hoped, but at least what we have done is good and straight and true. There are no more days this week when both Ray and I are available, but there are still things I can do on my own. I can start putting in insulation in the bottom cavities and board that in, drill for the cables and even get the door frame installed. So I'm not short of tasks.


----------



## Graham Orm

You're putting some graft in there Steve, it's all hard work. Looking good though. Re the truss, I doubt they will send someone to remove and re fit it so the best option for you is a refund, The'yy prolly offer a replacement at best. Prize the shake open, force in some glue and whizz some long screws through it. That'll be better than new.


----------



## buffalobill

Grayorm":2nkykv87 said:


> You're putting some graft in there Steve, it's all hard work. Looking good though. Re the truss, I doubt they will send someone to remove and re fit it so the best option for you is a refund, The'yy prolly offer a replacement at best. Prize the shake open, force in some glue and whizz some long screws through it. That'll be better than new.


+1


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was promised a morning delivery for the tiles and roof laths, and it was - just.

Fortunately I had some help and even more fortunately Ray finished his Wednesday schedule by lunchtime so came over for a couple of hours.

So we carried 1300 tiles and appropriate battens down the garden and then set to sheathing the other gable wall.

By 4pm it looked like this:















Enormous thanks to Pebbles who came down by train and worked like a Trojan. Great to meet you, thank you.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

she's going up fast Steve...nice


----------



## pebbles

It was a great day, good to meet you too - and a real pleasure to be involved in a tiny way! Just got back - off for a shower now - wobbly ladder legs! I know I shall sleep like a .... log?!


----------



## wcndave

Steve, this was a few pages ago, however I do think you might regret no windows... Put shutters on either internally or externally.

I could not work without any natural light, and you'll be in there for hours! I would guess you only spend max 5% of your time filming, however with shutters you can still get the light you need.

Of course you'll need to make them secure, however I would do it.

I also like to see my house from the workshop.


----------



## dbursch

So what's happened since July 10?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

:shock: Hell - Steve's workshop's gone viral!


----------



## Woodchips2

dbursch":1izru9pf said:


> So what's happened since July 10?


Maybe he's having a well-earned rest (hammer) 

Regards Keith


----------



## Steve Maskery

Nothing's happened! I've been down in Bristol and spent yesterday at Peter Sefton's Open Day. Nice to catch up with a few folk.
But I've made a quite significant mistake. Not sure that I'm prepared to admit what it is on an open forum, I might do after we've put it right! That's tomorrow's task.

S


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":1t7x5ozj said:


> But I've made a quite significant mistake. Not sure that I'm prepared to admit what it is on an open forum, I might do after we've put it right! That's tomorrow's task.
> 
> S



I was going to tell you weeks ago you've put the door at the back........................ I jest.
Don't worry about it, there by the grace of god and all that.
Just get back to building man, I need a fix :lol:


----------



## Peter Sefton

Great news you caught up with Nick Gibbs and he is making progress, and it was good to see you yesterday Steve. I think you dissevered a weekend off, the build is looking great!
Cheers Peter


----------



## Schoka-Cola

Had a look at your planning application online and so far it all looks very much like the Approved Elevations. Only thing I can think of is your Velux windows (as drawn) might not fit your truss spacing.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Indeed. But I have made a decision about that.
I'm not going for the velux. Instead I am going for 2 pairs of double windows facing the house, but with shutters. When the shutters are closed there will be no visible windows and the wall will look pretty much continuous. At least, that is my hope.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, yes, it is indeed time to fess up.

When the trusses were delivered there were no bird's mouths cut. I expected them to be there but they weren't. Apparently is not normal, they are usually cut on site. I did not appreciate that. We've set them up like this:







But we had cut a load of wedges and assumed that that would do. I was wrong. The trusses had actually been made assuming that a bird's mouth would be cut, but because we hadn't, it meant that all the raised-tie trusses were a bit higher than the gable ends. This would cause problems when we come to lay the roof laths.

So today we cut 24 bird's mouths with the trusses in situ. I did the marking out, Ray cut the notches. The crowbar is necessary because the weight of the trusses pinches the saw.






So now they all look like this:






So what would have added 5 minutes per truss had we done it when they were being installed has actually taken us all day to put right. But at least it is now as it should be. All the trusses are in the same plane. I'm not saying it is perfect, but it is a helluva lot better than it was.

If we had done it as we should, they would have also been dead straight along the very ends. They are not, so we are going to have to trim a few back to the shortest, but, to be honest, if that is all we have to do to get us out of the hole I've dug, I think I've got away quite lightly. I'm now pretty sure the roof will look good. It's cost me a day, but I'd rather it be right than forge ahead knowing that it was wrong.

I've replaced all but a few of the truss clips, but it was starting to rain. I'll finish them off tomorrow.

More on Wednesday, I hope.

S


----------



## xy mosian

Steve, If the truss ends are not lined up, assuming they are/were all the same, does that not throw the ridge line out?
xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, a little, but it is not very much and the ridge tiles will cover a multitude of sins.
I think we are talking about 6mm max (+/- 3mm). Quite frankly there is greater variation than that in the trusses themselves. One gable rafter is 20mm longer than its mate at the other end...

S


----------



## xy mosian

Ok! Only a woodworker's thou then. It sounds as if all is under control Steve. Keep up the great build, all power to your elbow.
xy


----------



## Lons

Steve Maskery":3mrh8zqi said:


> Yes, a little, but it is not very much and the ridge tiles will cover a multitude of sins.
> I think we are talking about 6mm max (+/- 3mm). Quite frankly there is greater variation than that in the trusses themselves. One gable rafter is 20mm longer than its mate at the other end...
> 
> S



Ha! 
Will make a builder out of you yet Steve. - How close is close enough? :wink: :lol:


----------



## wcndave

It's interesting how tolerances change. Most of my mates here are roofers or wooden house construction types and a few cm is usually ok.

When they see me working to within 1/2 mm they think it's about the stupidest thing they've seen - and the sight of me out with feeler gauges can cause hysterics.

I have built a few larger scale items as part of my house build, and i definitely adjust to a larger margin of error, up to half a centimeter here and there now....

Hope I can go back to being accurate when I start on smaller projects again!


----------



## Cowboy _Builder

Steve ,why didn't you use the wedges and just nail a lath on the top of end trusses to bring them up to the right height ? .


----------



## Steve Maskery

Because that would put me very close indeed to my height limit and I'm not sure yet how much I need for the ridge.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":1azqo4lo said:


> Because that would put me very close indeed to my height limit and I'm not sure yet how much I need for the ridge.



Then you just dump a few of tonnes of soil around the building to reduce the height above ground again [it's the 'tallness' not the height that's the issue IIRC]

When I last extended my WS I already had a tiled roof with a 4' overhang on one side, and I built a new wall up to the edge of the existing roof. There are no trusses, just a ridge girder, so to raise the edge I used a trolley jack and props, lifting the joists from direct contact with the new blocks. I ended up cutting some birdsmouths with a multitool as I simply couldn't get in with anything else!


----------



## KevM

monkeybiter":1rcno70z said:


> Steve Maskery":1rcno70z said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because that would put me very close indeed to my height limit and I'm not sure yet how much I need for the ridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you just dump a few of tonnes of soil around the building to reduce the height above ground again [it's the 'tallness' not the height that's the issue IIRC]
Click to expand...


Fantastic advice - the neighbours are going to love my new Motte & Bailey workshop! :wink:


----------



## marcros

KevM":uormvl5o said:


> monkeybiter":uormvl5o said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Maskery":uormvl5o said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because that would put me very close indeed to my height limit and I'm not sure yet how much I need for the ridge.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then you just dump a few of tonnes of soil around the building to reduce the height above ground again [it's the 'tallness' not the height that's the issue IIRC]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Fantastic advice - the neighbours are going to love my new Motte & Bailey workshop! :wink:
Click to expand...


----------



## monkeybiter

KevM":3d7803fp said:


> Fantastic advice - the neighbours are going to love my new Motte & Bailey workshop! :wink:



I was only thinking of a few inches, but I like yours much more! You could solve the problem of a flooded cellar by having that above ground too!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, that's very good. Made me smile.

My garden is already higher than the neighbouring ones. I think that when the foundations were dug for the original garage, the log cabin and the garden pond, the soil was just spread around the rest of the garden. It also drops away quite a bit at the back.

The front of the new build is practically level with the land up to it, but by the time we get to the middle of the side, there is already several inches of exposed concrete. I plan to fill the area around with gravel, but it is too much to make the outside level all round. And as the planning permission explicitly said to take note of the height restriction, I want to make sure that I am 100% compliant. I can argue the case for the land fall, but it would be difficult to do the same for an actual structure.

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well as usual we didn't get done as much as we'd hoped, but at least what we have done is good.

Remember me saying that the truss ends we out by only +/- 3mm? Well I was lying through my teeth. Well not lying, exactly, I thought it was true, and indeed it is - along the front, which is where we took our datum from. Unfortunately it is not true along the back, which I hadn't realised. The fact is that these trusses are all sizes. There was a gnats whisker short of an inch difference between the shortest and longest trusses along the back. 3mm I can live with, and inch, no.

So we stringed a straight line all the way along the back to get a good line. Then I screwed my shortest track to the truss and zipped up with the saw:















We trimmed every single one, but we now have a good end. By the time we'd done that it was already lunchtime.

So the next task was to install the eave trays. These carry the rainwater off the tiles and into the guttering.






At the gable ends we have no overhangs, so a length of 4x2 does the job:






With the eave trays in place we can start with the membrane. There is a convenient ridge in the eave trays against which to align the edge of the membrane. There is quite a substantial overlap.











We need one line of roof laths to hold the membrane down along the bottom edge and to support the lower edge of the bottom row of slates, but it is the second row that is important. This needs to be straight and true no matter what shape the eaves are. Also, it might not be exactly the same as the gauge of the rest of the roof. We worked out how much overhang we wanted into the gutter and went back from there. As it happened it was almost the same as the gauge anyway, but we nailed that row of laths up to a stretched string line. We are going to use spacer blocks to up from there, in due course. The slates need to be 250mm apart.











So it now looks like this:





I need to scrounge some scrap from the truss people for some supporting blocks and get my barge boards so that we can support the lath ends before the slates go on.


----------



## Graham Orm

Looking great Steve. Keep up with the pictures, makes great viewing. Is that a flying saucer in the last one?


----------



## KevM

I was struck by the lack of consensus in TV aerial alignment - missed the UFO!


----------



## Steve Maskery

LOL!
The ones to the right are pointing towards Watnall. I forget the other transmitter that serves this area. As I don't have a TV it makes no odds to me. Had the TV Licensing Mafia round yesterday. I was out. They put a note through the door along the lines of We'll Be Back...

I hope the UFO is just a bird, at least I hope it's not muck in my camera.

S


----------



## Halo Jones

Looking great! It will feel like a proper structure when you get a lid on!

Did I miss why there is no sarking boards, plywood or other going onto the trusses before the membrane etc? At an intuitive level only I always thought this really strengthened the structure. Also, how do you walk on the roof without worrying about where to put your feet?

H.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good q's.
Well it is not required and Ray reckons it is a waste of money and effort. There will be OSB on the sloping bits on the inside, so that will give massive bracing.

As to how you get on the roof, I'm hoping that Ray knows what he is doing...
S


----------



## paul-c

Steve Maskery":4p8hrzpc said:


> LOL!
> The ones to the right are pointing towards Watnall. I forget the other transmitter that serves this area. As I don't have a TV it makes no odds to me. Had the TV Licensing Mafia round yesterday. I was out. They put a note through the door along the lines of We'll Be Back...
> 
> S


you don't have a tv #-o 

how do you manage to get your fix of the complete bandsaw (hammer) 
paul-c


----------



## Graham Orm

I'd give serious thought to security re the roof Steve. If all they need to do is lift a few slates off they'll be in in no time.


----------



## Baldhead

I'm loving this WIP Steve, it's taking my mind of other things I'm having to endure at the moment, can I be the first to buy the first video you shoot in the new shop? 

Baldhead


----------



## Lons

Halo Jones":1y9mqb6s said:


> Did I miss why there is no sarking boards, plywood or other going onto the trusses before the membrane etc? At an intuitive level only I always thought this really strengthened the structure. Also, how do you walk on the roof without worrying about where to put your feet? H.





> I'd give serious thought to security re the roof Steve. If all they need to do is lift a few slates off they'll be in in no time.



I made those points a while back which is why I always fit OSB. 
False economy not to IMHO

Bob


----------



## monkeybiter

I've been on my tiled roof a few times and it's just that; tiles on battens on joists. And I reckon from some of the photo's I must be nearly as heavy as Steve. No issues whatsoever.

I can't help saying; from the write-up you're putting an awful lot of work into getting the tiles on. Admittedly I clearly don't have all the background knowledge that you do, but mine went on joist+felt+batten+tile nice and quick and very satisfying, and my WS is still bone dry after several years. I'll do my best to keep my gob shut when you get as far as fixing the tiles and how many tiles need a nail etc. 

However; as I often say, to anyone that will listen, I don't want to do the job twice, so I might as well do it right first time, so hats off to you for doing a top job.


----------



## Lons

The "where do you put your feet" issue is more applicable to during the fixing of the slates/tiles. It is much safer and a lot quicker so whilst the speed isn't a problem for Steve, for me where time is money, it more than pays for the extra materials, is a better job and vastly reduces the risk of accidents and the consequences to a small company. You can't put your foot through OSB but do so on felt / synthetic material and you're likely to come a cropper.

As far as security is concerned. I could get through a normal slate or tiled roof in minutes if I wanted to and could do so quietly. If OSB is fitted it would take much longer and be noisier so the little ******** would go somewhere else or risk being caught.

More of an issue at single storey height for security but for safety even more important at 2 storey levels.

Steve is doing nothing wrong whatsoever, just my choice and opinion to take or leave. I certainly didn't think twice about using it on my own extensions.

cheers
Bob


----------



## Steve Maskery

Same old same old, today.
Ray's been doing orang-utan impressions and I've been gophering. I think I've had a bit too much sun, actually, not feeling very good right now. I think a cold bath is in order.

Here are a few pictures.

How on earth does this fit?





















The view is improving daily:






The problem I now have is that Ray is expecting a delivery of scaffolding to paint his own house, so that will have to be his priority. But he says he's happy to paint in the morning and then come and work here in the afternoon and evening, at least until I'm weathertight. And there are things I can do now on my own, or at least without needing Ray.

I'm happy with the progress.


----------



## Alder

Re moving the RSJ.
If you can your hand on some short lengths of pipe or even round timbers you can roll it out without lifting it. Place one roller under the steel and then Merely moving the back pipe/wood to the front will be enough. Be carefully if going down hill in case the RSJ runs away.
Russell


----------



## Steve Maskery

Erm.....


----------



## dc_ni

Alder":1esm9cbu said:


> Re moving the RSJ.
> If you can your hand on some short lengths of pipe or even round timbers you can roll it out without lifting it. Place one roller under the steel and then Merely moving the back pipe/wood to the front will be enough. Be carefully if going down hill in case the RSJ runs away.
> Russell



That boat sailed a long time ago........


----------



## NiceJohn

Well all I can say for my first post is - *astounding*. A fantastic project and a fine example of friends and associates working together. I actually registered so I could follow this theme properly.

Many thanks for all the photographs and narrative. I look forward to the next edition.

John


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi John, you are not far away, come over and get your hands dirty!

Steve


----------



## AES

REALLY enjoying this Steve, as are so many others, clearly. Wish I was a bit nearer- but will wait until the work's almost done -):

Thanks for posting

All the best
AES


----------



## monkeybiter

FWIW I suspect that I am like many others, if I was nearer I would definitely offer manual labour.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Doncaster is just up the road!

S
(Admittedly Basel isn't...)


----------



## No skills

Havent looked at this thread whilst logged in for a long while, missed the pictures. Just had a look back through, its ******* massive!

Very good progress and work so far, perhaps by the end of it Steve will have learnt that sometimes close enough is good enough :wink:


----------



## AES

No, Basel isn't, but you never know!!

AES


----------



## Cowboy _Builder

Steve don't use spacer blocks to keep gauge on your roof or any discrepancy in the laths will be multiplied as you go up the roof you should always measure and strike the roof with a chalk line ,unless of course the laths your are using are sawn true but most commercial bought laths aren't , even the red graded laths aren't good enough to use blocks for spacing .


----------



## Steve Maskery

HI CB
We are checking every few laths so that that doesn't happen. So far it is all good.
But good point!
S


----------



## paul-c

hi steve 
as many people have already said

thank you for a great thread - i , like many others, have really enjoyed following your build and find myself looking forward to seeing the progress each day.
nice to see you appear to be enjoying the build even though im sure its hard work.
all the best 
paul-c


----------



## Graham Orm

Cowboy _Builder":2x92rsiy said:


> Steve don't use spacer blocks to keep gauge on your roof or any discrepancy in the laths will be multiplied as you go up the roof you should always measure and strike the roof with a chalk line ,unless of course the laths your are using are sawn true but most commercial bought laths aren't , even the red graded laths aren't good enough to use blocks for spacing .



Interesting point. I don't do roof's but if I did I'd have used spacers without giving it a thought!


----------



## riclepp

Great wip Steve. Just curious, ray has a harness on but what is he clipping on to? Looking nicer each post.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Anything he can! The roof laths are 2 x 1 (well, anything between 47 and 50mm, which is why CB's point above is so relevant), so I don't suppose they would stop a direct free fall, but Ray isn't as heavy as I am and it would at least break his fall.
Damage limitation, I guess. Let's hope we don't have to find out.
S


----------



## Lons

Grayorm":34umlige said:


> Cowboy _Builder":34umlige said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve don't use spacer blocks to keep gauge on your roof or any discrepancy in the laths will be multiplied as you go up the roof you should always measure and strike the roof with a chalk line ,unless of course the laths your are using are sawn true but most commercial bought laths aren't , even the red graded laths aren't good enough to use blocks for spacing .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting point. I don't do roof's but if I did I'd have used spacers without giving it a thought!
Click to expand...


It's a very valid point which cowboy builder made. In practice it's quite common to find that slaters laths differ in width and easy to accumulate errors. Added to this, they are never straight. My methods for years have been to make up a couple of guage rods from laths, one for each side of the roof if span not too long. I then snap a chalk line mark for the first half dozen or so with the lines marked at top of lath distance and fix using a nailgun - dead easy - dead accurate as long as you ensure no chalk line sag. I usually check a couple of places along the roof as I go just in case.

There is a way of using spacers that does work. Say the centres are 250mm you would cut a lath about 400 and fix a small cross piece near one end. Measure from the bottom of that 250mm to bottom edge of another cross piece at the other end. Sit the cross piece on the first fixed lath, pull the next one up to it and fix.

Bob


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ooh, that's almost a jig 
I like.


----------



## Owl

riclepp":vftwhkgb said:


> Great wip Steve. Just curious, ray has a harness on but what is he clipping on to? Looking nicer each post.




Sky hooks probably  

Great thread Steve. 

As so many have already said ... 'if I was a bit nearer' .... as I was/am a painter I would have done Ray's house while he was helping you (or are you helping him)


----------



## morfa

Owl":3ak9pkpx said:


> riclepp":3ak9pkpx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Great wip Steve. Just curious, ray has a harness on but what is he clipping on to? Looking nicer each post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sky hooks probably
Click to expand...


Could well be. One of these maybe:

http://www.needlesports.com/Catalogue/R ... g/Skyhooks

Yes, they are a real thing. Kinda useful when you're up the creek.


----------



## SammyQ

"up the creek"...there's a climb called "the creek" .... where? :twisted: 

Sam


----------



## Steve Maskery

Lots done today chaps.
AGM at the Community Workshop this morning meant that we didn't start until gone 2pm, but we went on until 8pm. Plus my mate Bob (of Workshop Essentials Theme Tune fame) came along, which was a great help.

So whilst Ray got on with Lathing






Bob and I did some sheathing along the back and front






We are going to leave the top row at the back open until the tiling is finished, so we can poke stuff through if we have to, rather than carrying it all the way round.






We are not quite rain-tight yet, but getting there.






So whilst I have aches on my aches, it suddenly appears to have acquired character.
















Nice view all of a sudden!


----------



## xy mosian

Steve Maskery":2bft6yds said:


> Lots done today chaps.
> So whilst I have aches on my aches, it suddenly appears to have acquired character.
> Nice view all of a sudden!



Ah! The "Essential Workshop" begins to live.
Nice going Steve.

xy


----------



## Graham Orm

Woohoo exciting!!!


----------



## paulm

Great to see it coming together Steve 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Halo Jones

We know your reasons but I am itching to say leave that open top row as windows! 

Otherwise - looking palatial  

H.


----------



## GLFaria

Halo Jones":3mvdww8c said:


> We know your reasons but I am itching to say leave that open top row as windows!
> 
> H.



Yes, that's what came immediately to my mind... But then I thought "got to clean the panes every so often..."

I wish I could go there and take a look at the real thing, it is becoming fantastic.


----------



## dbursch

Looking fantastic, Steve!! What a great comeback! But...Er... aren't we getting a tad beyond workshop "essentials" here? More like "Workshop Quintessentials" it would seem. So I guess that will inspire a whole new line of super jigs?


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Whats the floor area?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you guys.
Floor is about 7.6m square, internal. Ish. 8m footprint.
S


----------



## Richard863

Hi Steve
Its starting to look good. Have you thought about adding a wet underfloor heating system to add to your comfort? This can be powered by a a small Trianco type electric heater. I did mine well worth the effort, and < than a grand, pity about some of my kids inheritance


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was having a little email exchange with DaveR in Minnesota last night. He said he was jealous of my workshop size. 

That's it, I've made it, life is complete. I've made an American jealous of shop size. I have nothing left to achieve.


I must admit I do like the clerestory windows idea. I think I'd need a variation from planning, though. And they are not visible from the house and all that.
S


----------



## sammo

Steve, are you thinking about heating at all, I have a more modest workshop my self and added two small oil filed rads that I leave on the low setting during the winter, made a huge difference to working during the winter months ( I am a hobbiest so mainly weekends) especially with condensation. When I went in all I had to do was turn on the blow heater for a bit and nice and warm....


----------



## Steve Maskery

Heating, ah yes.

Well my original idea was to have a nice woodstove in there. Very trad, very romantic etc. But the building is wooden, so there are risks there.

It will be very well-insulated, so I think I'll just see what it's like before I decide.

Underfloor heating is attractive but could be very expensive to run. I don't want it toasty any more than I want it chilly so I think I'll just suck it and see.

S


----------



## Racers

That looks fantastic Steve its suddenly moved forwards no end, should be only days before the opening ceremony, will the queen be doing the opening? 

:wink: 

Pete


----------



## petermillard

Looking terrific; I'm a little surprised it's 'only' 8 x 8m - looks bigger! Must be the height


----------



## Slinger

Well done Steve,
With regard to heating, they do make wood burners for boats which should be safe enough for you.
Slinger


----------



## Bod

Slinger":1vzjekmq said:


> Well done Steve,
> With regard to heating, they do make wood burners for boats which should be safe enough for you.
> Slinger



Use a wood stove with a back boiler, you can have radiators running from it, correctly done, no pump, or electricity is needed.
This is a common way of heating narrow boats, stove at front of boat, rads down the length, even a hot water tank is possible.
It is well known for boat stoves to be lit in October, and not put out till April, attended only 2-3 times a day. (a skilled to be learnt only on your particular stove, they are all different to keep in.)
Search "Morso Squirrel" not the cheapest, but it will show the possiblities.

Bod


----------



## wcndave

I see adverts for stoves for burning everything from shavings to table saw dust safely and efficiently in BW all the time.

I would have got one if I could have put a chimney in. I am sure they are going to be safe.


----------



## GLFaria

Steve Maskery":ug20ttre said:


> Thank you guys.
> Floor is about 7.6m square, internal. Ish. 8m footprint.
> S


So, about 58m2 internal??? You may even put in a billiards table and a bar for the breaks!


----------



## PAC1

Steve it is looking good. Two points 
Windows to rear yes you should make them windows you will not get much direct sun light in given the overhang on the roof
Wood burner I bought some 3x2 paving slabs and stood the wood burner on one (two would have been better) and upended a few against the wall thus reducing the risk of burning down the building. I fitted fire board around the flue as it goes through the roof.


----------



## OLD

My workshop is quite well insulated but not as well as yours will be, and it preforms as you would expect. heat is retained well and cold does not penetrate that quickly. but there are 24 hours in a day and if its subzero then it will eventually be the same inside, so heat is required and it needs to get up quickly. i use a wood burning stove its fine and use a fan to distribute. if i replaced it i would go one size up on the heat requirement for the space as it spends most of its time in the mid range of its output .Also there good for sawdust.
Having just had PV panels on the house i am impressed with there output and the bill reduction so underfloor heat might be ok but it will be a slow responder.


----------



## OLD

I note PAC 1 comments and did the same, greatest danger is hot stuff falling on floor and radiation on full out put. A relative who is a fire prevention consultant passed it as OK and i have had no problems .The cheap flu (galv.light metal) will not last.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

"if i replaced it i would go one size up on the heat requirement for the space as it spends most of its time in the mid range of its output." OLD

When I got my first stove I was advised to work out what size was needed for the space, inc. calcs. for windows, external walls, etc. - and then buy one slightly smaller. It made sense because it's unusual to need the absolute maximum, and burning them hot is more fuel efficient and keeps everything soot free. It proved to be sound advice.


----------



## dickm

Agree about going one size *down* from the maximum heat requirement. Guy who had our house built put in a dirty great Vermont castings stove with an output about 20% over the max for the house. it was a total pain - took ages to heat all the cast iron and was running at half output most of the time, so wasted fuel like crazy. We now have a Squirrel!

Another possibility for Steve is to combine underfloor wet heating with solar thermal panels. The heat storage in the floor slab will even out temperature nicely, and practically nil cost to run. But of course you need to make sure the insulation between floor and subsoil is good, or you are just warming the worms . Ask Mike Garnham of this forum for advice.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Don't panic, you've not missed a whole chunk 

Ray is coming tomorrow and it may well be the only day this week we can both make it, so I really want to try to get the roof rain-tight. There are two more lengths of membrane to install, so that should not take very long, but I'd also like to get the barge-boards up. The barge-boards support the ends of the laths as well as finishing off the roof ends nicely.

I couldn't decide whether to paint them black or white, so ended up tossing a virtual coin. White won. Everyone recommends Sadolin, so this morning I bought 2.5L of Superdec White Gloss. Almost £40. Ouch.

I have to say I was disappointed. Now it may be unfair, given that it is a 2-coat product and the tin didn't even cover the wood I'd got in 1 coat, but as it dried the colour just disappeared.

So this afternoon I went a bit further to a store I've used before and been very happy with and bought 5L of what I believe to be an equivalent product for less than half the price of the Sadolin. It's Johnstone's Opaque Quick Dry Opaque Wood Finish. I've used Johnstone's stuff a lot and rate it highly, so I'm willing to take a punt. It went on in a way in which was indistinguishable and I was very happy with the opacity. Everything has had just one coat, the second coat will be done when it is installed, but the less time I have to spend up a ladder, the happier I will be.

Here are a few pictures. I'm sorry it's not more exciting - it's a bit like watching paint dry...

First I mitred the top ends of some 6x1. The saw has a scale with several calibrations on it. Not just degrees but Twelfths as well. My roof line is 17.8 degrees, which is very close to 4 in 12.

















Half an hour later it was as wimpish as a wimp in Wimpland.






But I just kept going. I guess I've painted about 3.5L today on mainly rough-sawn timber. It doesn't seem to go very far. I hope I've made the right choice.






S


----------



## No skills

Don't know exactly how much wood you have to paint - a large amount no doubt, can you borrow a spray gun from somebody local?

The thought of hand painting everything on a structure that size has me inventing new swear words, and I'm not even the one doing it :shock:


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I'd have rolled it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

A couple of weeks ago I trimmed the front ends of the trusses. I don't think I posted about that day. Anyway, it is so that I can have a fascia board of 6x1. It's the widest I can get ready tanalised. Because the trusses are made from 9x1, the depth at the end is huge, so I've left 120mm vertically and trimmed off horizontally from there. A 6x1 will leave me enough room at the lower edge to fit soffit.








Ray has been allowed day-release from Guantanamo Bay today,






so we set to finishing the roof membrane. There was not a lot left to do actually, so it went quickly.






We found a number of small holes in the membrane. One was Ray putting his saw through it, but the others are just puncture wounds. There were several and I'm wondering if it is the work of birds. But patching is easy enough, just as long as all the overlaps go the right way. It makes some interesting patterns when the two layers are just a small distance apart. Young's Fringes, if my physics serves me well.






We tried to get the laths to be a whole number of tiles long, but we don't think we can at the sort of overhang we want. We checked the gauge for the slates and they were spot on, 300mm plus 2mm for the rivet. 10 tiles came to 3018 exactly. So we are going to have to cut tiles, so it is probably just as easy to decide what overhang looks right and then cut the tiles to that.

So now it looks like this:






We didn't get chance to start the barge boards and Ray has his house to paint, so I don't think I'll be seeing him so much for a few weeks. But that's OK, there are plenty of things I can do on my own, it's just not quite so much fun.


----------



## KevM

Congrats on getting things weather tight - can't be too careful with a British summer!



Steve Maskery":2wrdh5nv said:


> It makes some interesting patterns when the two layers are just a small distance apart. Young's Fringes, if my physics serves me well.



Aren't they Moiré patterns?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ah, yes, they might be. And I used to teach Physics...


----------



## Paul Chapman

Excellent progress, Steve, and looking good.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Racers

Now its weather tight you can hire it out for disco weddings and bar mitzvah :lol: 

Pete


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## Steve Maskery

Well Chris already has her eye on it for a Barn Dance venue before the machines get put in.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's a lot slower working on my own!

I started by finding out exactly what the barge-board situation was going to be. I measured, best as I could, the distance from the ridge to the front end of the trusses. My barge boards are about 800mm too short, so I have to have a joint. The back ones are OK because the overhang is less at the back.

So I have to have a joint. I figure that it is better to put the joint at the top end where it is higher up, further away and carries less water. Only 800mm of dripping will hit it there. I've also arranged it so that the ends where they meet are bevelled on the ends and in such a way that any water that does get in drains to the outside rather than the inside. So I've cut two 800mm lengths for the top ends, suitably mitred and bevelled, and two corresponding long lengths which are mitred.











The only problem is that I've chosen the two best boards for the front fascia, second bests for the gables and the back fascia can be the rest. (Some of it is very rough, I have to say. DaveR said it looked like I was painting sponge. Had I been more quick-witted I'd have pointed out that that is because his lot keep all the good stuff and send all the rubbish to us. But it's easy to be hilarious when you've had best part of a week to think of a riposte.)

But one of the ones I've chosen (and therefore bevelled) for the front is on I cut 800mm off earlier! I didn't realise that until I was re-stacking them at the end of the day, so I'm going to have to choose one of the other boards, bevel it, apply preservative, then paint the end, with all the cleaning up that that involves, just for that one cut. Pah!

I've cut 16 blocks to mount the barge boards on the gable ends. These will be screwed from the inside and yes, it would have been infinitely more sensible to fit these before the roof was membraned, because now I can't lean over from the inside to the outside. So it's going to be a two-man job just to screw them in place, never mind lifiting the barge-boards. Never mind, they are made now, given a dose of preservative, and I've also made a pair of apex support pieces by gluing two pieces together, back to back:






Incidentally I used Gorilla glue for that. I bought it for this job, thinking it was PU D4 stuff, but it isn't, it's D3 and non-foaming, so I assume it's a type of PVA. But it was very nice to use, with an excellent nozzle closure cap thingy.

After I'd done all that I fitted the remaining noggings to the front, above the windows:






And that's it, a nice day pottering on small jobs.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yesterday and today I've just about finished sheathing the front of the workshop.

I did most of it yesterday, but finished early to go to a music festival. One of the pieces I cut was too big for me to handle up a ladder on my own so I left it. Today my friend Thérèse came to pick up some concrete blocks and offered to lend a hand. So between us we got it in place. It is a continuous piece that fits over the personnel door and over the RH windows. That left just a couple of little pieces to fit over the double doors and on the uprights of the window openings:






The only bit I haven't done is a norrow piece twixt the personnel door and the window opening. That is becasue something, somewhere isn't quite right and I don't know what. The stud looks near enough right for vertical and the bottom sheathing panel looks just about right, but they are flush at the bottom, as they should be, but the OSB is proud by about 10mm at the top.

So I'll fit the doorframe and see what's what as far as gaps are concerned and take it from there.

Actually I went to buy the door frame this morning but there were out of stock, as they were last time I went. They have the door I want but not the frame and I want to buy both together so that I know they match. If I order the frame today it will not arrive before the middle of next week, so I'm not so happy about that. It is a nice wide 78"x36" jobbie. I'd be happy to make it myself, of course, but I need a workshop to do that in...

I will make the double doors myself though. I shall simply board up the opening in the meantime. So the front now looks like this:






This afternoon I took delivery of 70 lengths of shiplap, carried them down the garden and painted 20 of them. I've decided that they will be Dove Grey, the Trim will be white and the doors Vintage Denim. I think it will look rather nice.

And after all that sheathing, I have quite a few largish offcuts, enough to clad all those top openings on the back without cutting up any more full sheets.


----------



## Steve Maskery

One more thing about the personnel door, and I'd value your opinion, please. Do I have it outward opening, like a shed, or inward opening, like a "proper" building. Both have advantages and disadvantages.

If I have it outward opening, then it doesn't get in the way of anything inside, but the hinges will be more exposed to ne'er-do-wells. If I have it inward opening, then the hinges will not be accessible, but the area behind the door will be dead, for all intents and purposes. Either way I think I shall have the hinges on the right as seen from the outside.

What do you think folks?

S


----------



## Graham Orm

I'd use three 4" butt hinges Steve and have it opening out. If it's opening in it can be kicked in. You can put a steel overlapping strip around all but the hinge side that way to prevent bars being forced into the gap, and a steel reinforcement down the hinge side of the frame maybe?


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## xy mosian

Another vote for outward opening. You could always add hinge bolts.
xy


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## NickWelford

26001 views! Is that a record? 

I vote for opening out.


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## Chrispy

Steve you are not building a shed so please do it properly and swing the door in, why does this mean that the space inside is dead? You need this space to use the door whether it opens in or out anyway.


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## brianhabby

Correct me if I am missing something Steve. You said you would put the hinges on the left looking from outside. That means if you choose inward opening the door will open into the room. If you put the hinges on the right (looking from outside) then it will still open into the room but the space behind the door is just a small corner and less of an issue. You could use the wall in the corner as hanging space for clamps or something similar.

BTW my vote is for it opening inward (with hinges on the right as described)

regards 

Brian


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## RogerP

Chrispy":1a5as3vo said:


> ............ why does this mean that the space inside is dead? You need this space to use the door whether it opens in or out anyway.


... so why then do shed doors open outwards?


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## Steve Maskery

Sorry, I meant hinges on the right. Senior moment, I do know my left from my right, honest.

I'm inclined to have it outward, as it is an outbuilding, but I admit it is debatable.

S


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## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":24qp3mgq said:


> Sorry, I meant hinges on the right. Senior moment, I do know my left from my right, honest.
> 
> I'm inclined to have it outward, as it is an outbuilding, but I admit it is debatable.
> 
> S



Ah! - I guess you can ignore my last post then 

Whichever way you have it opening (and as you say there are pros and cons with both) you have to make sure it is what YOU want, after all it's your workshop and you will have to live with it.

regards 

Brian

PS - I might be able to come visit at the end of the month, will let you know nearer the time. We are visiting my son who lives in Matlock and will be staying in Belper for a few day so not a million miles away me thinks. 

Brian


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## Steve Maskery

You will be welcome. Bring your steel toecaps...
S


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## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":5uozmybd said:


> You will be welcome. Bring your steel toecaps...
> S


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## dickm

Dunno whether it's relevant, but our house, which is made from a Swedish kit, has outward opening for all external doors. Possibly a scandinavian thing? Avoids any problems of dead space inside, but also inclined to surprise visitors if they are standing too close to the door outside


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## Steve Maskery

NickWelford":vulac4nc said:


> 26001 views! Is that a record?



Not quite, there is a sticky with considerably more.

But I'm not finished yet, am I? 

I wish I could charge a £ a view, it would pay for all this and give me a holiday to boot. Heigh ho.

Actually the buzz is enough.


S


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## Steve Maskery

dickm":2vv79nez said:


> Dunno whether it's relevant, but our house, which is made from a Swedish kit, has outward opening for all external doors. Possibly a scandinavian thing? Avoids any problems of dead space inside, but also inclined to surprise visitors if they are standing too close to the door outside



Yes, I think it is a fire regulation thing in Scandinavia, IIUIC.

S


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## Owl

My vote is for an outward opening door.


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## marcros

I would go open inwards for what it's worth. To break into it, it would take a lot more effort and make more noise- look at the effort that the police have to put into breaking one down (well on TV). All house front doors open in too for which there must be a reason.


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## RogerP

marcros":3qrc60sd said:


> ............ All house front doors open in too for which there must be a reason.


I did a web search for "why do house front doors open inwards" .... pages and pages of answers


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## Glynne

And the consensus was?


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## RogerP

Glynne":tqkt2611 said:


> And the consensus was?


There isn't one. Arguments for and against both ways.


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## NickWelford

Apart from the hinge issue, it's much more difficult to force a door that opens outwards. Either way, a good bracing bar or two across the inside would help.


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## petermillard

Outward opening, hinge bolts and keyed-alike locks - it's what I have  Also, an outward-opening door allows the possibility of a roller-shutter inside if you ever feel you're becoming a target, without making your back garden look like an industrial estate.


----------



## Bradshaw Joinery

Open in is so you dont smash the doors into your guests faces when you greet them. 

I like open in, can have the door open when its raining etc still without getting completely soaked all over....obviously depending on the rain direction. Just have to be careful if its your only door nothing falls behind it to jam it etc when you shut it. Hinge dogs, a few locks will be pretty secure. Open out leaves the locks exposed unless there double rebated, so is probably about the same security level.


----------



## SeanG

Hi Steve, big fan of your work!

I looked into the door opening options a while back. The main reasons I took away for the door opening inwards was physical security. Its easier to block your front door with your security chain, body etc when opening and trying to peer out to see if its your mother-in-law (I knew it was her, the mice were throwing themselves on the traps - L.Dawson).

Public building often open outwards for fire esacape purposes.

I would fit outward opening doors with good security hinges, hinge bolts and fit steel around the frame.

Sean


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## RogerS

You need a Poll, Steve.

I go for open outwards.


----------



## pcb1962

brianhabby":1omx05es said:


> my vote is for it opening inward (with hinges on the right as described)



+1


----------



## wcndave

Outwards is harder to break down as there is a frame behind it. Doesn't take any space in your workshop, can't get trapped inside as easily. so +1 for outwards.

As someone said front doors are inwards to prevent smashing visitors in the face, which I always thought was a shame...


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Why not go Japanese style and have sliding doors?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm afraid that would mean changing the entire design structure.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I didn't get going very early today, but I've only just come in, so still a decent day's graft. But it is so much harder on my own.

I started by cutting a length of membrane. The building is square, so I can use the front as a measure:







and I stapled it into place. It would be much easier with two.






The stapler is an Aldi/Lidl special and is generally pants. Ray's never misfires, this one is hit and miss. Sometime double. Ghastly piece of kit.

The staples themselves will not be very robust if it gets windy, so I have to put the laths on pretty much straight away. But I can't put the higher layers of membrane on by myself. so I've only nailed them up so far, so that the upper layers of membrane can be slid underneath.






Then it was on with the cladding I painted yesterday. I found a problem as soon as I started. The cladding fits in between the corner trims, but as the wall is not fully skinned, I couldn't fit the corner trim. So I fixed some offcuts with screws to give me the position and worked to them.

I tapped each length down with a hammer and a scrap of cladding so as not to damage the tongue. It's not easy aligning a full length, I can tell you.






This is what it will end up looking like:






I need to punch one or two nails, but most of them have set themselves. Then I can fill the holes and paint over. Does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable filler, preferably a gun-applied one? I want to be able to squirt, smooth, paint.






I wish Ray would stop faffing about with that bit of a guttering job of his.


----------



## Steve Maskery

As I've been sitting here thinking about the day, I have realised that I have been a plonker. Not for the first time in my life admittedly, but I have today. I installed the temporary corner trim flush with the front and back of the sheathing. I should have installed it flush with the front and back of the lathing (which I have not yet installed on the front and back), so each piece of trim is 1" further in than it should be. Too late now.

But it is not the end of the world, it just means that I shall have to replace the 4x1 trim on the side walls with 5x1. I'm not sure if I can buy 5x1 sawn, I may have to rip down a couple of 6x1s. It's so frustrating that I have a perfectly excellent tablesaw that I can't use.


----------



## Myfordman

I must admit that when building my workshop as soon as the roof timbers were up and only tarps giving cover, I got my table saw running on extension leads as it was so useful in preparing the subsequent timbers and sheathing.

MM


----------



## KevM

Steve Maskery":3sx3875n said:


> As I've been sitting here thinking about the day, I have realised that I have been a plonker. Not for the first time in my life admittedly, but I have today.


Steve, thanks for continuing to post your progress 'warts and all' - it's been really interesting to watch your progress, complete with your honest self-appraisals!

I take it you're producing a detailed and fully annotated workshop construction guide with all of the '_if-I-knew-then-what-I-know-now_' pearls of wisdom that you've acquired on this voyage of discovery?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you Kev. I've been given a great deal of goodwill on this project and it is much appreciated.

It would be nice to get a commercial product out of this but I think it is unlikely. I will write some sort of article for Nick, but it won't be a blow-by-blow account like this is.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm afraid I haven't got a lot to show for the last couple of days, despite the weather being kind.
I've been sleeping. A lot. Yesterday and today it was nearly 10 when I awoke. And whilst I was awake in the middle of the night last night, generally I've been sleeping reasonably well of late.
Anyway, it means that today I didn't get going until lunchtime, and by the time I'd been to the timber yard and Screwfix, it was 3pm before I did anything on the build.

It's same old, same old, I'm afraid, more cladding. This is going to take some time. Some of the lengths just drop on nicely, some have to be persuaded with a big hammer. The first one today I put a nail in before I'd got it right and it was a right PITA to put right. In the end I wrecked the length to get it off and try again. It will do for one of the shorter lengths on the front.

So as the light was fading it looked like this:







This is the door I have bought. Not fantastic quality, but it will do until I can make my own:






I wanted to see how much clearance I had for fitting, so I offered up the cill:






Disaster, the opening is too small! How did that happen?

Upon closer investigation, the cill is longer than it needs to be and can be trimmed to fit OK. Phew! It had me going for a mo.

So it's 10pm, I've only just had my dinner, I'm still filthy from the day's work and I suspect tomorrow may be another very late start...


----------



## StevieB

Keep going Steve - this thread is an inspiration. You will have good days as well as bad days, and if it takes a little longer then it takes a little longer. The end result will be worth it!

Steve


----------



## paul-c

hi steve
you sound a little disappointed as though you are feeling like you haven't achieved much over the last few days ( if i am right from your description) but please don't forget just how far you have got, every little trip to screwfix or timber yard is another job that gets you closer .
i know from when i was doing our house, 10 years ago now thankfully, that i had to keep reminding myself that every time i felt like i hadn't achieved much , even if i had only managed to do a ten minute job that day ,that i didn't have that job to do again so it was still progress.
so keep your chin up and have a read through your thread from the very start and see just how far you have come in a relatively short period of time - its not that long ago you first posted this
all the best
paul-c



Steve Maskery":rr8ylkgl said:


> I've finally thrown of the cloak of lethargy and put on the mantle of let's get on with it.
> 
> The derelict shack at the bottom of the garden has half the roof it had this morning. I should be able to get the rest off tomorrow, but I am too knackered to do any more today.
> 
> I'm going to keep the roof panels for the time being, as I have some stuff to keep sheltered outside, but in the fullness of time I should have some steel roof panels in pretty decent condition up for grabs if anyone is interested.
> 
> In the meantime does anyone want a dirty great big RSJ? It's free for the taking. Of course, there is no such thing as a free RSJ, you would have to come and help take it down (I've worked out how that can be done safely - jack up one end, remove a course of block, lower it down. Repeat at the other end and walk it down). The really hard part is getting it to the road. There is no proper vehicular access to the back and the RSJ is big. Really big. I mean, you might think it's a long way down to the shops, but that is nothing compared with the distance from one end of this RSJ to the other.
> 
> It measures 7.6m long x 400mm high x 140mm wide. I beam. It's actually two sections plated and welded in the middle. Somebody somewhere must be able to use it. If not I'll have to cut it up (ha-ha) and weigh it in. Must be worth a bob or two in scrap, but it's hassle I do not want.
> 
> I'll put an ad in the For Sale forum and start a Build thread when I get some pictures.
> S
> 
> Edit: Some pics:


----------



## Graham Orm

Your conscience pushes you saying 'you must do something constructive or it's a day wasted'. But in reality we're not machines. If you're tired and not really in the mood, but doing it because you think you should, you'll make mistakes and that will just get you down even more.
Best thing is to recognise the point at which you've had enough and go and have a rest, for an hour, an afternoon or even a couple of days away from it. It works, trust me.

It's coming along great Steve. Although I don't always comment, yours is the thread I update myself on when I first log on, and will miss the WIP when it finishes. Keep up the good work ;-)


----------



## Nice John

That's very good advice, a job done when we are tired very often has to be done again. The build is going great guns and you are to be admired for all the hard work and effort you are putting in to it.

John


----------



## AndyT

Here here. 

Steve, you've been open enough to have told us about days when getting up and dressed counted as an achievement - and here you are, taking on a substantial build, stretching your skills and physical abilities and producing what I am sure will be a workshop we will all admire and envy - so take a stroll down the garden and congratulate yourself on how far you have come in the last few months!!

=D> =D> =D>


----------



## woodshavings

Grayorm":340p7z61 said:


> It's coming along great Steve. Although I don't always comment, yours is the thread I update myself on when I first log on, and will miss the WIP when it finishes. Keep up the good work ;-)



+1

John


----------



## paul-c

Grayorm":1p2lznw9 said:


> It's coming along great Steve. Although I don't always comment, yours is the thread I update myself on when I first log on, and will miss the WIP when it finishes. Keep up the good work ;-)




+1
well said


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you for all the supportive comments, I really appreciate them.

Up at 6.20 today, so a bit more like normal, and after the crossword and breakfast I was functioning before 9am. I went out to buy some more membrane, but that was a mistake. The weather was good and I should have used it to work, as I didn't need it imminently and this afternoon it rained. It rained a lot. In fact I don't think I've seen such heavy rain since I was in India in 1987. It was simply torrential.

There is a bit of leakage in the roof in line with the trusses, but generally it is rain-tight. The only problem was the noise. I had the radio on full and I couldn't hear it. It was like being inside a drum. I hope it's not like that once the tiles and ceiling are installed!











On the plus side, I've fitted two lengths of membrane with laths to the RH side of the building and painted another 20 or so lengths of shiplap.


----------



## Glynne

> The only problem was the noise. I had the radio on full and I couldn't hear it. It was like being inside a drum.


There's a really good thread running on ear defenders!


----------



## hammer n nails

Hi steve I have been watching your build from the start its great looking forward to the next installment m


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hey, I've been made a sticky! Whoo-hoo!
Thank you mods (I assume).


S


----------



## paul-c

Steve Maskery":16jpcuvr said:


> Hey, I've been made a sticky! Whoo-hoo!
> Thank you mods (I assume).
> 
> 
> S



quite right 
most forum members seem to be following your thread daily (as am i ).
just one thought though - when you finish the building , we have the install to look forward to.
but once the build , the install and the first few test jobs and then proper jobs. :roll: 
what are you going to do to entertain us all then ?
we will all have withdrawl symptoms #-o


----------



## NickWelford

Looking forward to the shed warming.........


----------



## Steve Maskery

paul-c":1305e8ox said:


> what are you going to do to entertain us all then ?



Hey! What do you think my name is? Anton Deck?

S


----------



## wcndave

When were you inside a drum? 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Maskery

Lots done today chaps, due in no small part to Pebbles coming down again and lending a hand.

We started by painting another 12 lengths of cladding, then put up the third tier of membrane on the RH side. It was trickier than I had anticipated sliding it in underneath the taller lengths of lath, but we managed it.

Then it was cladding, cladding and more cladding. We laid 12 courses of 2 lengths each. Unfortunately the first, bottom one was sprung, but I didn't notice. A spirit level in the middle said "Level", but of course it would. It would if you put it in the middle of a hammock. So the length above it didn't sit too well. But by easing the dip out over 3 or 4 lengths, the rest were not too bad. The is an inward bulge in the wall about 5 studs in, so that is going to be a pain on the inside.

So that wall now looks like this:






When we had run out of cladding we put up 2 lengths of membrane along the back wall. The floor is concrete there so it was much easier underfoot than the RH side is. We did both lengths in about half an hour or so and they are reasonably nice and tight. It would have taken me all morning on my own and not been such a neat job.






Finally we painted the last 10 lengths of cladding. I'll have to order some more on Monday.

So now we are both cream crackered but feel virtuous


----------



## Graham Orm

Nice one Steve, what are you using to paint with? I'd use a roller for bulk of it and a brush for the joints.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The paint is Johnstone's Quick Drying Opaque Wood Finish in Dove Grey. It's from their Trade Woodworks range. Good stuff, covers very well on bare wood. No primer required. It doesn't so so far on rough sawn, but on the machined cladding it goes fine. I've used about half a 5L tin to paint 74 lengths at 4.2m long. It was about £42 for the tin. White and other standard colours are a bit cheaper.

I'll put the second coat on when it's all been installed and nail holes filled.

Until now, mixed-in-store colours were 5L minimum size, but they have just started doing 2.5L, so I'll probably use the same stuff for the doors. 2.5L will be plenty.


----------



## John15

Terrific work Steve - I follow your workshop's progress with great interest.

John


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":2mtlc05a said:


> The paint is Johnstone's Quick Drying Opaque Wood Finish in Dove Grey. It's from their Trade Woodworks range. Good stuff, covers very well on bare wood. No primer required. It doesn't so so far on rough sawn, but on the machined cladding it goes fine. I've used about half a 5L tin to paint 74 lengths at 4.2m long. It was about £42 for the tin. White and other standard colours are a bit cheaper.
> 
> I'll put the second coat on when it's all been installed and nail holes filled.
> 
> Until now, mixed-in-store colours were 5L minimum size, but they have just started doing 2.5L, so I'll probably use the same stuff for the doors. 2.5L will be plenty.



Seems expensive but good paint is never cheap and cheap paint is always carp.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's cheaper than the Sadolin equivalent. 2.5L cost me £37-ish, I think.


----------



## Steve Maskery

No progress today unfortunately. The forecast for this morning 9-12 was Heavy Rain, and it started at 9am on the dot.

This afternoon the forecast was for Very Heavy Rain, followed by Heavy Rain. We've had none. Very breezy, and I wouldn't want to be trying to install membrane in it, but it's actually been quite a reasonable afternoon. But as I expected a downpour at any moment I stayed in and baked a chocolate cake instead. No dogs about...







Now all I have to do is stop myself from eating every bit of it.

Talking of which, I weighed myself this morning. I'm almost down to the weight I was before I broke my leg last spring. Not quite yet but it is the lowest I've been since I put it all back on after the fall, when I was immobile for months.

But I suppose the cake will put a dent in that 

Never mind, I can work it off tomorrow, the forecast is fine. 

So that's pretty much all I've done today, apart from setting fire to the kitchen.

S
PS, I am using a brush, actually, for the painting. I think a roller would be a bit quicker on the smooth stuff, but as I'm doing it in small-ish batches I don't mind too much.


----------



## doctor Bob




----------



## Alder

Is there a DVD called bakeshop essentials in the offing?
Russell


----------



## dc_ni

mmmm Cake (homer)


----------



## Phil Pascoe

"I'll put the second coat on when it's all been installed and nail holes filled."
:shock: 
You cannot be serious! How many thousands of holes?


----------



## pebbles

phil.p":37vwd15o said:


> "I'll put the second coat on when it's all been installed and nail holes filled."
> :shock:
> You cannot be serious! How many thousands of holes?


Alright... I know it was my first time with a Paslode (I have the bruises on my forearm to prove it) but I didn't miss _that_ many times! :lol: Split a couple of ends but...  sorry again Steve!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, yes, quite a few, I guess. I'll just have to tackle it the same way that one eats an elephant, one bit at a time.
S


----------



## PAC1

Steve Maskery":21yov55k said:


> Well, yes, quite a few, I guess. I'll just have to tackle it the same way that one eats an elephant, one bit at a time.
> S


Cake or filling holes?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well after a slightly dodgy start today, it's ened up being very productive. The dodgy start was me waking up from an absolutely horrible dream. I very rarely dream, or at least very rarely remember dreaming, but this was vivid, getting lost in interminable hotel corridors. Horrible.

However, the build was much better.

I wanted to get the door frame in place, as it is sitting around just asking to get damaged. I've already damaged the door slightly, it was leaning up against the front wall and blew over. Another victim of Bertha, I think. 

The frame needs to be installed flush with the front laths, but I can't put them on until it is membraned, so I set to with the scissors and stapler. I'm quite inclined to throw the staplers (I bought two from Aldi/Lidl) into the bin and go and get a decent one from Cromwell. I think I waste more than half the staples. I did find my old hand stapler, a Kinzo, and although the staples themselves are not as substantial, it never ever misfires. It was much easier to use around all the window corners. It was fiddly work, I have to ensure that all areas are covered and that the upper layers always overlap the lower layers.

Around the doorway itself I had a problem. My stud is slightly off vertical and the sheathing is very slightly off, too, but in the opposite direction. The result is that the OSB does not line up very well:





So I sawed it off and put in the missing piece of OSB:





I needed a length of half-width membrane, which was a real challenge as it was blowing a gale this morning. So I held the membrane down as a sandwich between two boards:





When I got to the windows it was time for some patchy work to maintain the upper-over-the-lower technique:





So now I could put in the door frame, or so I thought. I assembled it and put it in place, just the right amount of clearance all round, looked good, until:






One side was square to the cill the other was not, by quite a way. I couldn't work it out, until I got my tape out. The distance between the mortices in the cill is 36" exactly. But in the head it is 36 1/4". So the top is 1/4" longer then the bottom. So I could do with some advice here, I might give Cowboy Builder a shout. Do I alter the mortices to make them both 36" or both 36 1/4"?

Or indeed split the difference?

The door is 36" exactly and will need a bit of clearance. But is 1/4" too much? It's quite a few years since I've hung any doors and it was never something I was very good at, to be honest. They always seemed to be OK but not quite perfect. I just don't do the job often enough to get good at it. Yes, I think I'll call CB.

So with most of the front membrane in place I finished the day by putting some cladding on the area to the right of the door. For every layer of cladding, I have an offcut of about 650mm, so these were perfect for this area. It means that I can measure the waste of cladding in inches per length rather then feet. That is very satisfying.

So this is where I am at:











I'm very pleased with my day's work. The only cock-up I've made is losing the lens cap to my camera. I usually put it in my pocket, but today I have lost it. The trouble is that if it is on the grass somewhere it could lie there for a very long time. I need a scythe to cut the grass. 

Edit: I've just been out and found the lens cap - it was in the ditch around the concrete base. Hooray!


----------



## Woodmonkey

Looking good Steve, nearly 29,000 views, you are popular!


----------



## Setch

1/8"clearance either side of the door is a pretty sensible amount, especially once you've got a fw coats of paint on door and frame. The last (and only) time I assembled a ready made frame I had exactly the same issue, and adjusted the mortice to the wider dimension.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm starting to think about door hardware and I know that there are one or two people on here who know much more than I do about door security. But right now I'm thinking just about the hinges and handles and locks.

I've found some security hinges that don't need separate hinge bolts:
http://www.screwfix.com/p/eclipse-grade ... of-2/22313

For three doors I'd need 5 packs and have a hinge left over.

For locks I need something not too wide, such as

http://www.screwfix.com/p/yale-5-lever- ... 64mm/30963

http://www.screwfix.com/p/yale-5-lever- ... 64mm/79649

If I have two locks as above, will I be able to get them keyed-alike?

Then finish it off with a trad lever plate:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/jedo-antique- ... 95mm/48551

Opinions gratefully received


----------



## Baldhead

Steve have you seen my post about 30% off from IronmongeryDirect? It may work out cheaper in the long run.

Baldhead


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Baldhead, yes I did, but...

http://www.screwfix.com/p/eclipse-grade ... of-2/22313

£7.42 per pair inc VAT

http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/prod ... 6mm/322569

£15.84 per pair inc VAT

As far as I can see they are the same.


----------



## Baldhead

Steve Maskery":rq1q66rj said:


> Hi Baldhead, yes I did, but...
> 
> http://www.screwfix.com/p/eclipse-grade ... of-2/22313
> 
> £7.42 per pair inc VAT
> 
> http://www.ironmongerydirect.co.uk/prod ... 6mm/322569
> 
> £15.84 per pair inc VAT
> 
> As far as I can see they are the same.



No saving whatsoever there, plus you would have had to spend minimum of £75!

I have used them in the past for drawer runners but nothing else and only because screwfix and Toolstation didn't sell the type I wanted.

Baldhead


----------



## williams1185

hi steve been following your build looks impressive i would certainly go for the second lock as my choice are you still going with open out on the single door as from the shape of the receiver it may be possible to burst the frame with a crowbar . if opening in no problem but i would add a locking pad bolt as well


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## PAC1

Steve, for mastered locks I would go to a specialist locksmith


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## Harry 48

Hi Steve lockshop-warehouse.co.uk may be worth a look for keyed alike mortice locks love the build keep going mate


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## Phil Pascoe

I have seen keyed alike Yale type cylinders in packs of three before, it might be worth trying to track them down. You may end up with a locksmith but it'll cost an arm and a leg. It's worth looking into "Smartwater" to mark your gear - everything I have that's worth more than about twenty quid is marked. When it comes to thieving toerags, every little helps. :twisted:

edit. Of course you're looking for deadlocks. Euro locks are quicker and easier to fit - it might be easier to find identical cylinders for them than to find identical conventional mortice locks.


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## Zeddedhed

Steve,
take a look at this page http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/Categories ... ike/1.html for deadlocks that can be keyed alike.

HTH

Pete


----------



## Gerard Scanlan

Hi Steve,
Why not just dig a moat for security? With all the rain we have been having it should soon fill up.
What about just leaving the door ajar at night but perching a bucket of panel pins on top of the door. Too mediëval? I used to love the bucket of water trick when I was a kid, that was after I learned about it the hard way  

Seriously though, I believe that intruder lighting and cameras are a really good deterent. Now if your build had not been so well advertised you could have considered having a picture of the interior of your shed while empty printed on a roller blind so that when drawn and seen from a distance the shed would look empty. It would still work on hard working burglars with no time to read and write on woodwork forums. Locks and doors are always weak spots in a building so you have to make them awkward to tackle. 

If you bolt your machines to the floor they will be tricky to pinch won't they? If I remember correctly a lot of you stuff was pinched because it had been in an unlocked barn.


----------



## RobinBHM

Those hinges are excellent, perfect for your application


I think it would be tricky to get keyed alike mortice locks but as Phil mentions if you use euro lock cases for the deadbolt and sashlock then a pair of keyed alike euro cylinders could be used. If you decide to go down this route I'd be happy to post a pair out (I only have them in 40-40 size, brushed stainless, for a 54 to 58mm thick door, 6 pin). 

Robin


----------



## Setch

5-lever, BS3621 deadlocks, and a matching sash lock in the middle position. Much better than euro profile stuff, and easier to fit.

If you get the same brand and type (ie: union 2134e deadlocks and 2234e sash lock) thru can be keyed alike, though you may have to source levers from a locksmith. It's very easy to do, if you can build a workshop you can relever a lock! PM if you want a hand walking through the process.


----------



## Zeddedhed

Steve,
the link I posted earlier (4 posts earlier in fact) will take you to a site where they will supply keyed alike Mortice Deadlocks at NO EXTRA COST!

Take a look.. http://www.thesafeshop.co.uk/products/e ... -67mm.html


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I found Euro stuff easier - by the bye - I changed a Euro cylinder when I moved house, and when I asked if the new one was insurance compliant ( this was an established specialised supplier) the guy just laughed and said no, none of them are. I found that difficult to believe with the millions of uPVC doors in this country.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve this is my set up. I believe it's safer than any form of conventional locking. Having your kit taken will be heartbreaking (why am I telling you that?). It will be doubly so if you skimp on security.
I did this myself, but if you don't weld it would be easy enough for someone to do for you.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve

Have read the entire thread over the last couple of days after somebody highlighted it to me - I am planning my own very much more modest workshop in the near future. It is a true monster of a structure and I just don't think I would have the bottle to take on something on such a scale. And it looks fantastic.

The one question I have is that at 56m2 does this need building reg's approval as well as planning? I don't think I have seen any mention of building reg's, so if it does need approval does it all happen at the end of the build for an outbuilding, as opposed to at various stages throughout the build?

Again, more power to your elbow, you are doing a fantastic job!

Wizard9999.


----------



## OLD

Your question is about door hardware, so does this mean that you are thinking about whole building security. As we all know any security can be breached but we can make it difficult, time consuming and increase the risk of getting caught doing it. Would it be idea to talk with a crime prevention officer .My own method is to secure doors and windows and have security lights and a security system with movement detectors that are visible, also sounders inside that are so loud you cannot think (if there is a law on this i break it).I use movement detectors as a relative that worked at hull prison said the prisoners hate them with a passion. There is lots of security to choose from if this is your strategy.


----------



## SeanG

Steve, is it worth contacting your insurer to see if they have a list of approved locks?

And a question on nails if I may, it looks like you are using the same Paslode framing nailer to attach the cladding as you used for the framing. What nails (length & guage) are you using please?

keep on (hammer) &  

Sean


----------



## Benchwayze

Steve. 

As an extra-cum-backup, have you seen these. 

http://www.gatehingesboltslatchesandhan ... ?catid=450


I have one for my shed and one for my side-gate.
They are quite reassuring. 

HTH 
John


----------



## Stu_2

I'm pretty security conscious, and was lucky enough to have a friendly local fabricator make up some door security bits for me. I couldn't really find what I wanted so knocked-up a design, gave him the lock, and he came up trumps. Took a few weeks as he's always busy, and did bits at a time whenever he could, but only charged about £120. Pretty good value considering that's all the materials and fixings, including the 1.5m 20mm stainless bar.

The lock is a serious bit of kit, and Machine Mart currently sell them for about £63. The lock box has a protruding lip to make it very difficult to get access to the lock at the necessary angle with a drill bit.

The workshop is also a separate zone of the main house alarm, which has live bell boxes back and front. Outside sockets are isolated when not in use. Hopefully it's all enough to make it just too problematic for any low-life to bother with. If they still fancied a go, hopefully my mate next door will point his 12-bore at them for additional discouragement :twisted: 

Hope that helps, but if I ever lose the keys I'm f***** :mrgreen: 

Cheers
Stu


----------



## RogerS

Any good ?

http://www.asllocks.com/moreinfo.asp

But don't forget this either ...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thanks guys. Sorry for being quiet, I've had an unplanned break. Collapsed in agony last night. I'm lying in a hospital bed waiting for a scan. I'm OK now and should be home tonight. Catch you later.


----------



## Newbie_Neil

Hi Steve,

Take care of yourself.

I have two door handle security locks that you can have, if they are any good to you. I'll dig them out and let you have the details.

Neil


----------



## Setch

To all the folks preventing your door opening, please also take steps to ensure it isn't just secured in the middle - I've seem more than a few doors which have the bottom third smashed off, leaving a great big hole to enter through. This is why I favour at least 2 deadlocks top and bottom, if not three.


----------



## Graham Orm

If you think we're all going to go and finish it as a surprise you can think again!

Get well soon Steve. ;-)


----------



## Baldhead

Steve stop overdoing it, take a few days off, get back on your feet before even thinking of working on your new workshop, there's no point in hurrying it up only to damage yourself to the point of not being able to do any work in it! Take a well earned break!!!

Get well soon.

Baldhead


----------



## dc_ni

Baldhead":rm8bsgt6 said:


> Steve stop overdoing it, take a few days off, get back on your feet before even thinking of working on your new workshop, there's no point in hurrying it up only to damage yourself to the point of not being able to do any work in it! Take a well earned break!!!
> 
> Get well soon.
> 
> Baldhead




+1

Take a couple of weeks off, I know you will want to get straight back to it but you definitely need to take it easy. Like Baldhead said, there is no point in doing yourself serious damage in the rush to finish.


----------



## paul-c

hope all is ok steve.
as others have said , take it easy for a bit now.
best wishes 
paul-c


----------



## Benchwayze

Yes Steve. Rest up a bit. It'll still be there in a week or so. 
GWS. 

John


----------



## Peter Sefton

Don't over do it Steve, looks like the shed is pretty much in the dry so you deserve a break.
Cheers Peter


----------



## AES

+1 Steve

As everyone has said, a great thread (entertainment and learning combined in 1!) and now is certainly not the time to overdo it. As my lady wife always says, "It'll still be there tomorrow".

Gute Besserung.

Krgds
AES


----------



## Charlie Woody

Steve,
Very sorry to hear you are unwell. As others have said take good care of yourself, listen to & act on the medical advice and I look forward to hearing you are feeling better soon. Don't worry about the workshop it & your avid readers will just have to be patient & wait till you are fully recovered.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I'm back home and feel perfectly fine. In fact I've felt fine all day but had to hang around until 6pm for a CT scan. At 7.30 I asked if the consultant urologist was comeing and the Sister (or whatever they are called these days) said, "Oh he won't come now it will be tomorrow." Well I didn't fancy another night in the hospital, and as I live within ( a good) walking distance I negotiated Night Release. I have to be back for 7.30 in the morning. But I just needed some clean clothes and my contact lenses. I had managed to take my lenses out before being carted off, but I was still in my work clothes, so you can imagine what I looked like by this afternoon after I'd spilled my dinner down my front. Is this the sign of things to come?

But it looks like it's nothing to worry about at all, and if I get out early tomorrow I'm supposed to be going walking for the day. There is no way I can sit around doing nothing for a week, I've been doing too much of that for the last few years, I want to make up for lost time now.

Anyway, here are some pics I didn't have time to upload yesterday. Enjoy.

I've discovered that my spirit level is not as accurate as I thought it was, so I don't really know if this panel of cladding really will line up with that on the right of the door until I get to the top. I hope I don't have to pull it all off.












I lined up the left panel area best as I could with a chalk string. Again, we shall have to see how well I did that, but I've not nailed every board, just in case.


----------



## Peter Sefton

Good to hear you are back home Steve enjoy a rest day or a few.

When back to it could you use a rod or story stick to transfer the markings for the boarding? It maybe worth making some 2"x1" baton frames covered with clear plastic to keep the weather out of the window openings. 

Cheers Peter


----------



## Racers

Good to hear you are o/k Steve I was going to ring you last night after Bake off, but I fell asleep!

I am off in a couple of weeks time so I will pop round to help, just try and be upright :wink: 


Pete


----------



## terrymck

Nice to see you are on the mend Steve.


----------



## wallace

Glad your ok steve. Have you thought much about your security. My workshop was burgled a few years ago. It was before I got into the wadkin big boy kit so everything was easy to nick. All told they took about £3k worth of gear. Naturally things would be a lot harder for the robbers now, but It is a horrible feeling when you see your workshop door open.


----------



## wcndave

Spot the person who's not read the thread properly ;-)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## wallace




----------



## Phil Pascoe

It's a long thread - I'm sure you'll be forgiven.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve's going to set an exam at the end.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Steve......another poster (wizard9999) asked if you had sought building regs approval to which there was no response. I happen to know the chap as it happens and your thread came up in conversation the other day. 

He seems to think that once a building crosses a threshold square footage then it doesn't matter if its a habitable dwelling or not, it needs building control to sign it off. This distinct from planning consent of course which I know you have.

I thought it worth mentioning because if he's right goodness only knows what the local planning will do to retrospectively examine the integrity of the build.

If you have thought this through and its under control then can you just drop a note so we know. He's only thinking of avoiding storing up trouble for you.


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## Steve Maskery

Sorry, I didn't respond, I got overtaken by Events. Don't panic, it's all under control!


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Marvellous


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## OLD

I would imagine that after your health problem that you will be avoiding the heavy work if you can, how ever i think i am right in thinking that the breather membrane is only good for 3 months in mild weather so the roof could be a problem .Please check this before you alter your plans or buy in labour to complete the tiling. If this is bad news i am sorry but its best to have the info to help make decisions .


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":31egcw4z said:


> Sorry, I didn't respond, I got overtaken by Events. Don't panic, it's all under control!



Steve

No problem with non-reply, you have been very busy and then with the impromptu hospital visits...

...having read the whole thread over just a couple of days it just struck me and couldn't bear the thought of there being a problem after you had finished!

Wizard9999.


----------



## morfa

Wizard9999":mithyg6q said:


> Steve Maskery":mithyg6q said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't respond, I got overtaken by Events. Don't panic, it's all under control!
> 
> 
> 
> ...having read the whole thread over just a couple of days it just struck me and couldn't bear the thought of there being a problem after you had finished!
Click to expand...


Dunno if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I do recall Steve talking about getting planning permission for this. I can't quite be bothered to search the thread for it, but I'm 100% certain he had got permission for it.


----------



## Wizard9999

morfa":18l6ltbg said:


> Wizard9999":18l6ltbg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Maskery":18l6ltbg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't respond, I got overtaken by Events. Don't panic, it's all under control!
> 
> 
> 
> ...having read the whole thread over just a couple of days it just struck me and couldn't bear the thought of there being a problem after you had finished!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Dunno if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I do recall Steve talking about getting planning permission for this. I can't quite be bothered to search the thread for it, but I'm 100% certain he had got permission for it.
Click to expand...

 
Morfa

No need to search, but if you actually read my post (or subsequent post from Bob) you will see the question was about building regs, not planning consent.

Wizard9999.


----------



## morfa

Wizard9999":25lqwu3q said:


> morfa":25lqwu3q said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Maskery":25lqwu3q said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I didn't respond, I got overtaken by Events. Don't panic, it's all under control!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dunno if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but I do recall Steve talking about getting planning permission for this. I can't quite be bothered to search the thread for it, but I'm 100% certain he had got permission for it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No need to search, but if you actually read my post (or subsequent post from Bob) you will see the question was about building regs, not planning consent.
Click to expand...


I'd assumed they're the same thing. Or that if you got planning permission, they'd tell you 'you'll need to do X' to have it checked at the end. I've just looked into it and I can see that they're different things. You learn new things every day.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I had my workshop and my verandah done at the same time - I needed P.P. but no building regs for the verandah, and building regs but no P.P. for the workshop.


----------



## Wizard9999

"I'd assumed they're the same thing. Or that if you got planning permission, they'd tell you 'you'll need to do X' to have it checked at the end. I've just looked into it and I can see that they're different things. You learn new things every day."

The whole subject is a real pain, as phil in post between ours says, can end up needing neither, one or both as the 'thresholds' for needing them are different. Sometimes I think this sort of thing is done on purpose to trip people up!

Wizard9999.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

I think the original reason for the angst is that if you did always require building regs approval but failed to get it then you're potentially in big trouble because they examine the integrity of the build in stages. So for example, footings poured in a house build may well be the first inspection point to ensure the foundations meet regs and can be approved (trench deep enough, rebar inserted etc etc). So if your assumption is that just as the removal truck arrives and champagne is being popped you can ask the inspector to whip round and tick all the boxes...whoops...er no....you'll be risking doing a lot of retrospective undoing of things so it can be signed off.

Wizard was genuinely concerned that (whilst he had seen planning granted documented in Steve's epic) he hadn't seen regs....hence the query.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Both the Planning people and the BCO have been very helpful and constructive. "Proper Job" was his last remark. 

It is, however, frustrating, from a consumer point of view, that one dept in the Council can ask you what you want to do and how you want to do it, charge you for asking, tell you "Yes, That's Fine", and then someone else in the office next door can come along and charge you and say "No, It Isn't". I did point this out to the BCO last time he came and he was very sympathetic to the complaint.

Sorry for not posting much recently, I've not done much on the build (a bit on Saturday when my mate Dave came to help, but same-old same-old) because I'm so washed out I can hardly do anything. I changed the bed yesterday and after taking the sheets off I had to lie down for a while before putting the clean stuff on. I live at No9 and the Post Box is outside No1. It's all I can do to walk it. I'm 5 days into a 30-day course of tablets, but I'm seriously thinking of stopping, as I can't do anything. And I'm not sleeping properly again, so it's a double-whammy.

Oh woe is me


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Time to get the catalogues out then Steve. Or maybe sketchup and do some of the planning and brain work rather than the physical. You could use sketchup to plan the layout with the dimensions gleaned from the catalogues


----------



## Baldhead

Steve take a well earned rest from the build, I know and understand you want 'the shop' up and running, but your not 21, take it easy for a while, recharge your batteries, you can do just as much indoors as you can outdoors, for example take a look at these podcasts, 

http://www.woodworkingonline.com/catego ... st/page/4/

I've gone straight to page 4 because podcast 10 is Tips for Setting Up A Great Home Shop, now I know the phrase 'sucking eggs' springs to mind, but there may be a few pointers you could use, plus there's a lot of other podcasts which I have found very informative, at least watching these can be done while your resting, I and all the others following your build will wait until your fit enough to carry on.

HTH

Baldhead


----------



## brianhabby

I agree with everything said above Steve, take it easy for a while otherwise you might find you do yourself a proper mischief and finish up not being able to finish it at all. 

I will see you sometime next week, I'll give you a call when I know what day I can get over, 

regards 

Brian


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I never thought I'd be grateful for being ill. I do feel much better, although I'm still sleeping loads, but I've not don't anything on the build all week. And it's a good job too.

Kevin, the BCO, has been great and indeed he says that he goes to see houses that are not as well-built as this is. He is generally happy. Until he saw the cladding.

He was under the impression I was going to face it with brickwork. I don't know why, because that was never in the spec, but he doesn't like the wood directly on the laths when the wall is so close to the boundary. He is concerned at what might happen if a neighbour has a bonfire that gets out of control.

So I think I have to remove the cladding, apply some sort of fire barrier and put the cladding back. It's a pain, but if I'd not been ill I'd have finished the cladding by now. I don't know what sort of material he has in mind, he's going to send me some suggestions on Tuesday. I can still get on with the roof and the insulation, of course. I'm glad about that, because I'm getting some help on Sunday and hopefully later in the week too. And Ray is back this weekend.

So I'm glad this has happened now rather than when all the cladding was done, but it is trouble I could do without. Not least because of the cost. I suspect that this is not going to be trivial expenditure.

Buddy, can you spare a dime?


----------



## Graham Orm

That was a lucky break Steve, that's how you must view it. I would go along with a nail punch and punch all the nail heads through to try and salvage the cladding.


----------



## marcros

Is there nothing that can be painted onto it to make it suitable? You can get paint for boats that goes behind stoves etc.


----------



## Steve Maskery

If you know of anything, please let me know.
S


----------



## deserter

There are deffinately clear intumescent coatings for exterior use. ALBI fireguard, is one range. Not sure how they compare to the boards cost wise though, and they are strict systems, I.e. You have to apply the right layers to specified thicknesses.


----------



## marcros

Steve,

I don't know what level you need to achieve, and I don't know the products but google found this. http://www.rawlinspaints.com/categories ... cUICa.dpbs

It isn't cheap but may be worth considering. If suitable, cheaper versions may exist but it is a starting point.


----------



## beech1948

I thought that the recently revised planning rules were for a minimum 1m gap from any boundary were mainly to provide a fire break.....I think that's right. If so then why is this guy demanding something over and above the rules.

I have not heard that BC directives included any need to fireproof a wooden external structure. I wonder what it is. If you can find a reference then please let us all know. Again what (legal) rule is this guy refering to.

I have heard of NO occasions when an external bonfire has caused a wooden shed to catch on-fire.


----------



## Harry 48

Hi Steve nullifire will work on wood


----------



## Graham Orm

I went through a process with building control over fire proofing doors on a loft conversion once. The client wanted to keep her doors. We looked into it as someone had mentioned that Stately homes use a product to protect everything. I proposed it to the building inspector and he said he needed to see recent test results on similar doors to those that we wanted to use it on. They would need to stand up to the 30 minute test that a standard fire door does. It was a none starter.


----------



## No skills

Ref Beech1948

Not sure on the details of steves build (size or location on his property) but..

Outbuildings over a certain size and with certain distances from boundary's should be "constructed of substantially non-combustible materials" 

Probably why Mr BC has an issue, hopefully an layer of cement board/woodwool etc under the cladding will avoid steve learning to lay bricks.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm sure it will all be fine.

UrbanSpaceman is coming over on Sunday and I plan to install the barge-boards. I've already prepped the mounting blocks and the barge boards themselves, although I haven't trimmed the bottom ends. I think I'll do that in situ.

Once they are up then the roofing itself can go on.

S


----------



## TrimTheKing

Hi Steve

My ex-neighbour built a 3 bay oak framed garage in his land and IIRC he had to finish it in some kind of fire retardant finish because it is within about 12 feet of my house. I have texted him to see if my memory serves well and if so the what the product was. 

His concern was the colour but not a lot he could do about it, and it fits in so looks fine.







Will report back ASAP. 

Cheers
Mark


----------



## TrimTheKing

Sorry Steve, it appears I mixed up a couple of conversations we had!

The planners wanted it to be fire retardant but apparently my neighbour argued it and won on he basis that "char factor on oak was enough" whatever that means. 

Strikes me then that if that argument could force a change of mind that their requirement was on fairly flimsy grounds n the first place...

Realistically, even if you had a fire guard behind the cladding you still have barge boards and timbers in the roof that could catch fire and bring the roof down anyway. Seems overkill to me...

Hope you get it resolved in the best and cheapest way for you Steve.

Cheers
Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you, Mark.
S


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I've never been quite sure what the regs. are designed to protect - is it your property from a fire on your neighbours, or your neighbours from a fire on yours?


----------



## Hemsby

Hi,

While you always want to keep BC officers onboard it always pays to ask questions. If a regulation is not clear cut, Individual officers may interpret them the way they would like to see a particular aspect of the project, not always a benefit to the applicant.

If you have not already, I would ask to see the regulation yourself and if it not obvious to you why he is taking his view ask for clarification.

You could always get advice from the local Fire Prevention officer, they are always helpful. If he thinks your structure is not a problem this is always useful ammunition with the council if there is a grey area.

In the last 2 years we have renovated & extended our property and were unfortunate to suffer a major loss in the December floods on another property in both cases we had help & hindrance from the local BC some with justification, others not including conflicting information. On the negative dealings with them with almost all when they were pushed for justification they removed their objections. 

The BC officer may be correct and while you obviously want to be safe you need the correct info.

You do not need more expense or unnecessary work.

Good luck


----------



## RogerS

Hemsby":2bs57u8h said:


> ..... On the negative dealings with them with almost all when they were pushed for justification they removed their objections.
> 
> .....



You are spot on. In my experience, all BCO's have their own 'pet' issue. In my case, while renovating an old B&W, all the casement windows were being replaced. In conversation with the BCO during one of his visits, he said in passing 'You are going to make them top opening as well for egress in the event of a fire'. When I pointed out (gently) that my understanding of the regs was that provided that the opening was no worse than what existed before then top opening was not mandatory. He backed down muttering ' Oh yes, you're right'.


----------



## No skills

phil.p":12cyrixa said:


> I've never been quite sure what the regs. are designed to protect - is it your property from a fire on your neighbours, or your neighbours from a fire on yours?




Its all probably a left over from 1666.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I wouldn't be all that surprised.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well we didn't get the barge boards up, but we did get all the support blocks up.

Urban Spaceman cam along to help today and he worked like a slave. He's a lot less of a wuss when it comes to ladders than I am, so I was grateful for that.

I made the support blocks weeks ago and should have fitted them before the roof membrane went on, it would have been so much easier.

The first problem was the ladder. The ground on the right is very uneven and the OSB is slippery. And as there is not a lot of room, it felt like the ladder was going to fall sideways at any moment. We fixed that by cutting a short length of 4x2 to fit just nicely between the top of the ladder legs. The once the ladder was over it, it was secure. It worked very well.






So US held the block in place outside whist I was up another ladder screwing it from the inside. 






The screws had to go through a truss-plate, but I have a drill that is supposed to drill anything - wood, steel, brick. But I heard a Ping and one of the WC tips has broken off and now it wouldn't drill a watermelon. I'm a bit annoyed as the set wasn't cheap and I've not had it long.

So the blocks support the barge boards by sticking out a bit like the end of a purlin, if we had them:





We could nail up the short bit of BB:





but the longer, full length was just too heavy. We could get it up but not hold it safely and nail it as well. It will have to wait until there are three of us. I've got another couple of offers of help this week, I hope the weather is good enough to allow us to work. There is 40mm of rain forecast for tomorrow. What happened to summer?

TVM to Urban Spaceman, I could not have done it alone.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I had both Ray and Brian Habby today and we got quite a bit done. Not as much as Ray wanted, but what we've done is good and right.
There was a bit of remedial work to do from the work that Urban Spaceman and I did on Sunday. Basically I'd made the support blocks an inch too deep, so we had to shorten them. It didn't take anywhere near as long as it did to put them up in the first place, so although it was a nuisance, it wasn't too delaying. At least now there is space to fit soffit boards underneath.

Once we had them up right we fitted the barge boards on the left hand side. Note the join near the top. It is bevelled so that water drops away rather than inwards.











Access is tight on the RHS. I'm beginning to wish I'd left more ground. It's OK for the walls, but the eaves stick out so much that it becomes impossible to access them comfortably. So Ray decided it was easier to fit those barge boards from above. Brian helped him to get dressed. I wish I'd videoed it, it was hilarious.






Once the RHS was done the same as the left, Ray decided that whilst he was up there he may as well trim some of the laths, while Brian and I fitted the fascia boards at the front, but they are unwieldy, so after a couple of failed attempts we tackled the job with the three of us, two holding and one nailing. Easy-peasy.











We didn't have time to finish the front fascia, because I need to fit another support block at the front left corner first, but it now looks like this:






It was great to see Brian again, and, as ever, I've very grateful for the help. Indeed, he spotted that I was about to cut one of the boards in exactly and precisely the wrong place, so that saved me a board, paint and a lot of time. If he'd done nothing else, that was worth his journey over. (He did do rather more than that, of course, but you know what I mean).

Ray is back on Saturday, all being well. We could do with another pair of hands, if anyone can help out.


----------



## paulm

Won't be long till your kitting out the inside Steve !

Great to see the build progressing 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Graham Orm

Wizard9999":2423fgbt said:


> No skills":2423fgbt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ref Beech1948
> 
> Not sure on the details of steves build (size or location on his property) but..
> 
> Outbuildings over a certain size and with certain distances from boundary's should be "constructed of substantially non-combustible materials"
> 
> Probably why Mr BC has an issue, hopefully an layer of cement board/woodwool etc under the cladding will avoid steve learning to lay bricks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> I can't see you having reported back that you have resolved the issue with building control. Has it been resolved but it is just too dull a topic to report back on? If not I really would suggest you get this sorted out before you get much more done. I have looked back at some of your early pictures and whilst it is impossible to be certain it does look as though you are within a metre of the boundary. If that is the case then you really need to bottom out what they want you to do to comply with "constructed of substantially non-combustible materials", as others have pointed out different people interpret things differently and if you are unlucky a coating or material behind the cladding might not be what they are thinking of and you could just be doing work that will have to be undone later.
> 
> I have to confess a vested interest in this myself as I am thinking of a workshop within 1 metre of the boundary and I was told that if I go over 15m2 about the only way I can comply is if the whole workshop is of masonry construction. Admittedly I was told this by a local builder he may not be an expert, but he did seem pretty certain. Note the reg quoted does not say the area that is within one metre has to be of non-combustible material, but rather it implies the whole building. If you get the go ahead to just coat a predominantly timber structure with a fire resistant coating on the wall nearest the boundary I'd love to know as it could mean my workshop can be at least 33% bigger!
> 
> Wizard9999.
Click to expand...


Wiz, I think you'll find that these things can vary greatly from area to area. Always a good idea to check with your own guy. If Steve is allowed to use a coating you can always mention it.


----------



## Wizard9999

Grayorm":f2t1w2f1 said:


> Wiz, I think you'll find that these things can vary greatly from area to area. Always a good idea to check with your own guy. If Steve is allowed to use a coating you can always mention it.



Grayorm

Agreed, one of the fundamental problems with planning and building control is that so often the fate of your project is determined by the subjective interpretation of the rules by the individual dealing with your case. That's my primary concern here, that Steve 'cracks on' only to find that when Mr BC comes back he digs his heals in for a solution that means a whole lot of work has to be undone.

Before I start anything I'll be looking to get something in email from the local authority confirming my proposals will be OK, or at the very least if I can only get verbal confirmation to take a note of date of discussion and person I spoke to. But then I'm under no illusion that even that will give me 'cast iron' certainty of problems down the road.

Wizard9999.


----------



## RobinBHM

Hi Wizard,

Have you considered getting an independent company to do the inspections? Because I undertake projects covering many boroughs, I find it much easier to deal with the same company and being private I find them more pragmatic in their approach. I use BBS building control. 

If you did a full plans submission, if they are approved, then there shouldnt be any surprises during the build. I certainly share your concern with local authority BC, you could agree verbally with one inspector only for another to do later inspections that has a different viewpoint.

Not wishing to hijack this fantastic workshop thread of course!


----------



## Steve Maskery

We've had a good day at it today.

First we fitted the three remaining fascia boards. They meet roughly in the middle directly over a truss end. Each board is bevelled at 45 deg so that one overlaps the other and both are nailed together into the truss end. The ends are flush with the bottom of, and the outside face of, the barge boards. Then, while Ray went up on the roof, I went round with a paint brush to give the boards their second coat of paint. The nails and the joint itself disappear.

I really, really wish that I'd given the barge boards their two coats before we put them up. They are going to be a pig to paint in situ. Just having to dab over the nails would have been much easier, especially on the RHS. Ray reckons he can paint them OK from the rooftop. Where would I be without him?

Ray was up top trimming the laths and the membrane to the barge boards, and nailing the lath ends to the barge board itself. It's neatened it up no end. I'd cut a bucket load of short lengths that fit between the laths. They, too, got nailed to the barge boards. It means that there is 70mm of support for the tile edges all the way up the gable, and the membrane is secured along its full height.

The line of the gable looks nice and straight, more so than the photo would suggest, and the width of the roof at the front and back is the same to within 3mm, as far as we can measure with a sagging 8m tape. I think that's pretty good, myself.





















He's back tomorrow, watch this space.


----------



## Graham Orm

Wizard9999":3aigmeud said:


> Grayorm":3aigmeud said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wiz, I think you'll find that these things can vary greatly from area to area. Always a good idea to check with your own guy. If Steve is allowed to use a coating you can always mention it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grayorm
> 
> Agreed, one of the fundamental problems with planning and building control is that so often the fate of your project is determined by the subjective interpretation of the rules by the individual dealing with your case. That's my primary concern here, that Steve 'cracks on' only to find that when Mr BC comes back he digs his heals in for a solution that means a whole lot of work has to be undone.
> 
> Before I start anything I'll be looking to get something in email from the local authority confirming my proposals will be OK, or at the very least if I can only get verbal confirmation to take a note of date of discussion and person I spoke to. But then I'm under no illusion that even that will give me 'cast iron' certainty of problems down the road.
> 
> Wizard9999.
Click to expand...



There was a guy in Stockport who was always dreaded. He was thrown in a skip once...so the story goes.


----------



## Steve Maskery

More progress today.

My friend Jen came to lend a hand and she has done lots of serious DIY over the years. So when we'd put the trim up over the ends of the roof laths she was up the ladder with a paint brush quicker than a Yorkshire ferret up a trouser leg. Ray had brought his ladder stabiliser, which helped enormously.






It is a fine gable end, I reckon.

Then the three of us formed a chain gang to put 400+ tiles up onto the roof. I carried them about in the workshop and up some stepladders, Jen was on the scaffolding, passing them up to Ray on the roof, naturally.






I'm rather pleased with that photo.

Then it was some brain-scratching time, working out exactly where the first row of tiles will be nailed. It's important to get this right as the rest of the roof covering will depend on it.

Some of the tiles needed to be cut. The main ones are 600 x 300, but we need a tile-and-a-half at the end of alternate rows, which means cutting down a double. Also, the bottom two "under-rows" (they probably have some fancy builder's name but they are there to continue the structure of the overlap of the tile on each other all the way down to the eaves) have to be cut, but one tile provides both layers, so it's very efficient. Some of the cut tiles have to be drilled to take the diamond-encrusted rivets. They might as well be, given the price of them.Then it's a case of starting at one corner and working in a diagonal fashion.











Sorry I cut his head off, I had the camera above my head and couldn't see what I was shooting.

And so the back looks like this:






More on Wednesday, I hope.


----------



## Owl

I've found this is so very interesting, seeing all the pics and accompanying explanations makes it the first thread I look at when I log in.
In a way it will be sad when it's all finished Steve, although I don't suppose you'll be sorry.


----------



## Myfordman

OWL, If you like workshop build topics then there is another excellent one from Mike Garnham, late of this parish here:-

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198

MM


----------



## Owl

Thanks for the link MM  I stayed up until 1:40am reading through it all #-o


----------



## pcb1962

Myfordman":3cl2n9pv said:


> OWL, If you like workshop build topics then there is another excellent one from Mike Garnham, late of this parish here:-
> http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198
> MM



And there's an awesome workshop build currently giong on in Canada here:
https://www.youtube.com/user/lgosseuxdbois/videos


----------



## brianhabby

pcb1962":12yiqy45 said:


> Myfordman":12yiqy45 said:
> 
> 
> 
> OWL, If you like workshop build topics then there is another excellent one from Mike Garnham, late of this parish here:-
> http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198
> MM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's an awesome workshop build currently giong on in Canada here:
> https://www.youtube.com/user/lgosseuxdbois/videos
Click to expand...


I've been following Alain's build and have to agree it is awesome. He even built a crane to lift the roof timbers into place! Well worth a look for anyone who has not seen it.

regards 

Brian


----------



## Owl

pcb1962":kstp9x0y said:


> Myfordman":kstp9x0y said:
> 
> 
> 
> OWL, If you like workshop build topics then there is another excellent one from Mike Garnham, late of this parish here:-
> http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198
> MM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And there's an awesome workshop build currently giong on in Canada here:
> https://www.youtube.com/user/lgosseuxdbois/videos
Click to expand...



Wow ! that's one heck of a build and an awful lot of material being used. I must continue watching that series tonight.

Apologies to Steve for highjacking his topic. 

regards
Brian


----------



## Steve Maskery

A quick report today.
Ray has continued on the roof. He has covered almost a quarter the back now. Once he gets the first diagonal row up to the ridge it should go a lot quicker.
Meanwhile I've been cutting insulation. Jen started it on Sunday and today I have completed the top row of one wall.






But a couple of downers today. Three actually, but only one of them is build-related. My neighbour at the bottom has had a fence erected, and although one end is nearly right, the RH end is about 15" over to me. That means there is now less than a metre between the fence and my workshop. It all went up yesterday when I was at the community workshop. Until now we have got on OK, but when I pointed this out I was told I was being "picky". I hate, hate, hate conflict and it's made me feel quite troubled all day.
S


----------



## lanemaux

I would think with the number of witnesses you have who have worked onsite , you should have no trouble convincing any who might ask that you were in compliance and the fence just suddenly "appeared" , that is should you need to explain to anyone how this came to pass. 
Conflict is always upsetting , but is a natural part of interacting with others I'm afraid. For me a little light reading and a cuppa helps a good deal. We each have our own methods of getting on.


----------



## dc_ni

I'm sure with all the photo's you have taken you would have all the evidence you would need if anything was said


----------



## TrimTheKing

Steve

Is the concern that your build might now be in breach of planning regs, or that he's impinged on your land by 15"? If it's the latter then picky or otherwise, he's built a fence on your land and as such it needs to be moved to match the land registry boundaries...

Cheers
Mark


----------



## defsdoor

15" is some steal. I'd ask for a contribution to your council tax.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's being re-done tomorrow.
S


----------



## TrimTheKing

Good news. Was it a painful conversation?


----------



## Steve Maskery

A little, yesterday, but today it's been only an exchange of voicemails. I think all shall be OK.


----------



## angelboy

The BCO had already inspected the site anyway so I wouldn't have thought they'd be that picky. Glad it's being sorted anyway!


----------



## PAC1

Steve Maskery":hd29oqsc said:


> A little, yesterday, but today it's been only an exchange of voicemails. I think all shall be OK.



Steve two points first keep the voicemail preferably on your computer and make a transcript and date it. Second if you have his email address send him a very polite email thanking him for agreeing to reinstate the boundary. Obviously if the reinstatement is done, no problem but just in case.

PS the shed is looking great.


----------



## pcb1962

PAC1":ip44u2nn said:


> Steve two points first keep the voicemail preferably on your computer and make a transcript and date it. Second if you have his email address send him a very polite email thanking him for agreeing to reinstate the boundary. Obviously if the reinstatement is done, no problem but just in case.



And if you have any more issues with fences or boundaries the forums at gardenlaw.co.uk ( http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/index.php ) are full of good information and advice.


----------



## SteveF

I hope Steve is ok
gone quiet

Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm fine, thank you for your concern.

I wasn't very well last week and this week I've been working on other projects (one is helping Therese to get her shed finished - we've been OSBing the roof today ready for the rubber roof man tomorrow) and they have had to take priority.
Ray is coming on Friday and we should get more of the roof done then. I have stuffed in a little bit more insulation and have drilled holes for the electrics, but it's not much and that is all since the last time.
I have a wholesale DVD order to fulfill, which is going to take me a few days, but I have a couple of guys coming to help me next week so I hope to start making progress again then.

I've not dropped off my perch. Not quite yet.
S


----------



## mailee

Glad to hear that Steve. Now don't forget to keep those WIP's coming. :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I'm really sorry I've not posted for a while, as I know that a lot of people have been enjoying this. It's been a combination of me not really feeling 100% and other things getting in the way. Ray has other projects on, not just mine, and when he's not here I'm nowhere near as productive. But last week we spent a couple of days doing our friend Thérèse's summerhouse roof and I've been busy putting DVDs into cases for a wholesale order. So not much has been done.

But Ray came on Wednesday and on Thursday Terry came too. Unfortunately I didn't get my camera out until after he had gone, and he doesn't follow this forum, but even so, Thank You Terry.

So on Wednesday Ray finished the back half of the roof and yesterday Dave started to fill in the holes in the back wall, 












whilst Terry cut and fitted more insulation. Then after Terry had gone home, Dave, Ray and I raised a few hundred tiles onto the front slope of the roof. So this was close of play yesterday:






Dave stayed over and he played his mandolin whilst I cooked spiced pork with pineapple and apple and blackberry crumble with ice cream. Apples from Ray's trees.

Today Dave has finished the sheathing and fitted a load of scrap insulation, meticulously, into more of the bays.






Meanwhile, Ray has made a start on the front roof. The starting is tricky, as it determines the lie of the tiles for the rest of the roof, and there is a lot of tile-cutting at the bottom edge and gable edge. Also, the cut tiles have to be drilled to take the copper nails and rivets. At least it is a lot easier to photograph from the front side as there is more space for a bigger scaffold tower.






Here are a few shots showing how the tiles are laid out and fixed:





The string helps us to keep the first full row of tiles straight.

There are actually three layers of tiles at the very bottom edge.






So this is all the drilling, nailing and riveting.











And here we are right now.






Maybe more on Wednesday.


----------



## SteveF

nice to see u back on it Steve
was getting a bit worried about quietness
looking good
I, like most (i guess) wish was a bit closer so could help out

Steve


----------



## Peter Sefton

Looks like you are making good progress again Steve.
Did you use a can't or shim strip under the bottom slate as shown in the seventh image, you may wish to lift it a little to slow the rain down.


----------



## Steve Maskery

i Peter
That is exactly what the bottom layer is, IIUIC, it's just 120mm deep.
S


----------



## Halo Jones

Hi Steve,

Am I imagining things or did you pack the bottom of the back wall with insulation, then take it all out and pack the top?! I am comparing the 2nd and 4th pictures you posted above? I thought it was just me that changes my mind and does everything at least twice!

Great progress though. It will look great when the tiles are all on. Is it just me or does it suddenly look more solid, and bigger, with the tiles?


----------



## Steve Maskery

LOL!
You are imagining it! In the 4th pic the bottom row is below the bottom of the picture.

Yes, it's looking more like a proper building all the time. I just wish I had more energy. I feel as if I've put on 15 years in the last five. Mind you, some sweet young thing guessed my age at being 35 yesterday. Even allowing for a bit of flattery that's pushing it a bit. Bless.

I was hoping to have a workshop bash before the year was out but that is not going to happen now.


----------



## Doug B

Rome wasn't built in a day mate, take it steady, you'll get there in the end, looking very good so far.


----------



## pebbles

deleted post.


----------



## MikeG.

Steve Maskery":1dafqziy said:


> ..........I was hoping to have a workshop bash before the year was out but that is not going to happen now.



You could hold it in mine, Steve. I'm certain to finish long before you 

http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198&start=250


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've no doubt, Mike, I've no doubt.
More power to your elbow
Steve
]


----------



## angelboy

Mike Garnham":lwk12yu2 said:


> Steve Maskery":lwk12yu2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..........I was hoping to have a workshop bash before the year was out but that is not going to happen now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could hold it in mine, Steve. I'm certain to finish long before you
> 
> http://www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=198&start=250
Click to expand...


Great! - I've just nearly finished mine and then I see your thread on how I should have done it........*bum*

I see plenty of mistakes I've made.....oh well, too late now!


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's going nicely, chaps. Today I woke up having had a proper night's sleep and feeling very good. Better than I have for weeks. I'd forgotten I could feel so good. So today has been rather more productive than most.

Ray has been here yesterday and today, working on the roof, and as he approached the beginning of the ridge we had to decide what we are going to do for ridge tiles.

These slates are cement board, and there are cement ridge tiles to go with them, but they are not a very good fit on a slope as shallow as mine. And conventional concrete ones are as ugly as sin:






So we have decided to make our own! Ray did a little trial run and it looked great so we set to.

The ridge tiles start off life as a length of stench pipe, with a wall thickness of 3.2mm. We cut it to lengths just over 320mm and ripped each one down its length. The we cooked them at 120 deg for 15 mins until they were nice and soft:






And pressed them flat:











Then I made a jig. Well, I would, wouldn't I?











The edges of the "tiles" needed to be trimmed, but we had margin for that, then they were put on the jig, heated with a heat gun and bent.











Ray is, quite justifiably, feeling quite pleased with himself.

So whilst I did yet more insulating, Ray started to fit our bespoke ridge tiles:






And as bad light stopped play, it looks like this:






I'm delighted.


----------



## Brentingby

Very good!


----------



## Woodchips2

Well done Steve, that's innovation =D> =D> =D> 

Better take out a patent because that could catch on. :lol: 

Regards Keith


----------



## brianhabby

I like the use of that stench pipe Steve, very clever. But where's Ray braces? 

regards

Brian


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

why not cook the remainder needed and once out of the oven shove straight on the form for bending while malleable? Cut out the heat gun step altogether.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I did think of that, Rob, But the cutting of the edges is not perfect in the round, so it's easier to get them nice and square when they are flat. Plus, I can cut them to length to fit exactly if we find that the tiles are running out a bit. The tiles appear to run out by about 20mm over the length of the ridge, so it's not perfect, but it's not bad, either, and we an tweak the tiles to suit.
We were hoping to cut the ridge tiles to 610mm, but the heat gun is not suitable for such a large area and that is also too big to go in my oven.


----------



## StevieB

I have fitted those tiles before as well - Ray has made a lovely job of that roof!

Steve


----------



## dickm

As a further alternative, you can buy metal ridge profile in, IIRC, 1 metre legths, designed to be used with metal profile roofing sheet. Can easily be bent/unbent to the correct profile, but being thinner and in longer lengths might not look as good as the bespoke ones being used.
Take a lot less time, though  .


----------



## Myfordman

Faced with a similar requirement, and not prepared to pay the price of the matching fibre cement ridge tiles, i ran a strip of lead along the crown of the roof and screwed down inverted black guttering across the ridge using those roofing screws with the waterproofing caps.
Worked out really well.

MM


----------



## Steve Maskery

We did consider doing exactly that, Bob, (well, the lead bit anyway), but this is working out very well indeed. And as you say. compared with £35 each for dry ridge tiles, it's a no brainer. Not even terribly slow once we have the former made.
S


----------



## angelboy

Clever use of the soil pipe but it will become sun bleached over time.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Steve Maskery":3zdbn99s said:


> Well I did think of that, Rob, But the cutting of the edges is not perfect in the round, so it's easier to get them nice and square when they are flat. Plus, I can cut them to length to fit exactly if we find that the tiles are running out a bit. The tiles appear to run out by about 20mm over the length of the ridge, so it's not perfect, but it's not bad, either, and we an tweak the tiles to suit.
> We were hoping to cut the ridge tiles to 610mm, but the heat gun is not suitable for such a large area and that is also too big to go in my oven.



Gotcha. Its a great idea I have to say and in fact if you could deal with any sun related discolouration (different plastic formulation perhaps) it does actually sound like it may deserve to be a commercial product. It would be amazingly useful if it was infinitely flexible along its centre line without compromising its water-proof-ness so it could accommodate different angled ridges. Surely the big firms must have thought of this already and found some limitation in the material or manufacture? But on the surface it sounds like a brilliant solution.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes there probably will be a bit of fading. But it is designed to be used outside, so there must be some UV protection built into it.


----------



## angelboy

Steve Maskery":3amsgztf said:


> Yes there probably will be a bit of fading. But it is designed to be used outside, so there must be some UV protection built into it.





Yes, I'm talking 10 years down the line. A quick lick of gutter paint will add to the life when this happens.

Concrete tiles look rubbish after 5 years anyway and in 10 they'll be green with lichen!


----------



## Racers

Steve Maskery":3q4195zs said:


> Yes there probably will be a bit of fading. But it is designed to be used outside, so there must be some UV protection built into it.




Nice work Steve.

If you keep it plastered in factor 50 it should be o/k :wink: 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had a new helper today. Julian is a friend from the Community Workshop. I usually give him a hand on a Tuesday, but the CW is being used for a glass course for the next few weeks so we are playing hookey. I set him on the Great Insulation Installation.







I also had another old friend over on Sunday. We did Our Masters together over a decade ago. Unfortunately I didn't get a photo of him, but between us we got almost all of the wiring in place. I've got 4 power points in the ceiling as well as the lighting circuit (so I can mount my air filtration unit, which, fortunately, I still have) and a double socket in every other bay. I won't use them all, of course, but at least wherever I am there should be a free socket within easy reach.











Meanwhile Ray was continuing with the roof. A secondary string line half way up the roof helps to keep him straight. I was cutting tiles and making more ridge tiles, which I have to say, are looking excellent.











And so he has now done about half of the front pitch:






I also took delivery of 20 sheets of 100mm Xtratherm today, so we can start to insulate the roof tomorrow.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve, is that polystyrene insulation? What are you cutting it with? I have experimented and found that a crisply sharpened long knife works best. No serrations, just a flat blade. It makes least mess and cuts well.


----------



## Steve Maskery

HI Graham
It polyurethane foam. I did try a knife to start with but the drag on it was very high. I'm now using a hardpoint saw and it is very effective. There is some dust, but it's not bad.

More same-old-same-old today. Insulation on the inside and Ray up top. We've run out of copper rivets so I hope I can buy a part-box, I need only a couple of hundred and they are expensive.

S


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":frmtmw6u said:


> HI Graham
> It polyurethane foam. I did try a knife to start with but the drag on it was very high. I'm now using a hardpoint saw and it is very effective. There is some dust, but it's not bad.
> 
> More same-old-same-old today. Insulation on the inside and Ray up top. We've run out of copper rivets so I hope I can buy a part-box, I need only a couple of hundred and they are expensive.
> 
> S



Try Ebay for stuff like that Steve.

Here ya go http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... s&_sacat=0


----------



## wcndave

Now I have power proper to my shop I have discovered that my large number of sockets (10 UK and 10 Italian) have all gone instantly and I have multipliers in nearly all of them.

Fortunately I already planned to put socket extensions under wall cabinets for example for things like cordless tool charging on little shelves.

I really wish I had thought of ceiling sockets add I have a cluster of four tools in middle of room.

So anyway great forward thinking on the ceiling sockets and I guess don't underestimate the wall ones, easier to get in now! 

Another thing that was easy for me to add after with flat roof but you may want to consider before putting in the insulation is putting hooks in key locations in roof that are "reachable", by which I mean less than 9'

I did this in a number of positions and then use a wire loop to hang up my vac hose and sometimes festool power cable where I need.

The stiff wire loop gives me 2 feet extra reach and I can just quickly move the hose exactly where I need and out the way. (Trailing hoses on track saws and routers are a pain)

I only mention as with yours roof design you may find key areas are not under any fixing possibility and you could put the odd batten in before insulation as required.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## xy mosian

Much smaller scale. I hang trailing power cables from the garage roof with elasticated hooks. Sort of bungy with a hook at each end. It softens the dramatic stop at the end of the slack.

Meanwhile the shed is coming along very well Steve.
xy


----------



## Bod

Steve Maskery":10iasyzp said:


> HI Graham
> It polyurethane foam. I did try a knife to start with but the drag on it was very high. I'm now using a hardpoint saw and it is very effective. There is some dust, but it's not bad.
> 
> More same-old-same-old today. Insulation on the inside and Ray up top. We've run out of copper rivets so I hope I can buy a part-box, I need only a couple of hundred and they are expensive.
> 
> S


Steve
Do you still want copper disc rivets?
I have about a 100, your welcome to, just PM me your address.

Bod
Having a clear-out, came across some very old ones, but unused.


----------



## Deejay

Afternoon Steve

Are these the rivets you need? ...

http://www.tradefixdirect.com/nails-pin ... isc-rivets

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you both, I'm sorted for rivets. Ray bought some and StevieB very kindly sent me some, so we have plenty.
I'm just editing and uploading some pics of progress.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

We've been at it again today, and Julian has been back, too. J and I have been insulating. We have finally used up all the free stuff that I cadged. It's done almost half of the walls. Sorry about the blur, it's getting dark in there and the exposure is a bit long for panoramas:






Meanwhile Ray has had a fairly miserable day on the roof:






It didn't help me cutting two large tiles wrongly, in succession. The problem was that we have bought some more of the large one (600 x 600) and they are a different batch to the originals. On the originals it was obvious which face was the front and which the back, but these are much more similar and I had them upside down.

I've also been wearing some new boots. My old ones were wearing out my socks, always in the same place. I got holes in 4 pairs in 4 days. So I've splashed out on some DeWalts with Dickies socks. Very nice. Very nice indeed. Rec'd.

Anyway, the build now looks like this and I need to take a trip to the tip with a couple of bags of PU dust.






Steve


----------



## paulm

Ray's doing a great job of the roof Steve, looks really good 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good day today. 
My friend Akram came over to help and this time I stole a shot of him.






Akram is a friend from university days, it's been good to catch up. He's done a lot of insulation work, but with the full sheets it goes very much quicker.






We've also done a bit of wiring for the tablesaw, made another couple of ridge tiles and generally been very productive

Ray's been up top again and it should have been a quick job, but it's been raining in heavy bursts, and as he put the very last tile on it absolutely threw it down. He descended looking like a drowned rat.

He had to do the last bit off the scaffolding as there was not much room to work.






And this is the end result.
















Now, does that look good or does that look good? Ok there is the odd kink, but that is mainly from the trusses, and considering all his previous roof work has been with clay tiles and this is the first time he'd used these Cementite things, I think it's pretty darned impressive.

There will probably be a bit of a hiatus now, I think he wants a well-deserved break from it.


----------



## RogerP

Good grief for a moment their I read "My friend Akram came over to help and this time I shot him" :shock: 

It's going to be a superb!


----------



## Charlie Woody

Roof looks great Steve! Is the other side done too? If so it's just in time as I gather that this month could be a bit wet!


----------



## Zeddedhed

That is indeed a fine looking roof.
The nuts of the pup in fact.
=D> =D> =D>


----------



## Graham Orm

Looking fantastic Steve, a much better view than the tired terraced behind it.


----------



## Brentingby

Looks great, Steve! Good work to all.


----------



## woodshavings

Wow!....
John


----------



## TrimTheKing

Yep top looking job that!

Cheers
Mark


----------



## lanemaux

Looking very much the man cave of the year now Steve. can't wait to see it with attendant kit in place, neither can you I imagine.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Charlie Woody":3qo31abj said:


> Roof looks great Steve! Is the other side done too? If so it's just in time as I gather that this month could be a bit wet!



Indeed. The north side was finished a couple of weeks ago. So I'm now properly weather-tight, apart from the doorways, which are pretty well protected anyway.
S


----------



## Wildman

Steve Maskery":dkzxtya9 said:


> Hey, I've been made a sticky! Whoo-hoo!
> Thank you mods (I assume).
> 
> 
> S


what do in the privacy of your workshop stays in the workshop, hee hee


----------



## terrymck

Great work Steve. Watching the build with great interest.


----------



## Owl

Ray has done a top quality job on that roof Steve =D> this is certainly an excellent WIP ...full marks to everyone


----------



## Racers

Cracking job there from Ray, with your help Steve.

I must pop round, not that I will be much help I have knackered up my right hand, torn ligaments.


Pete


----------



## Wizard9999

A big milestone. As others have said, Ray has done a great job on the roof. What's left to do before you're finished?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Oh, there is still a long way to go. There is still work to do on the cladding and external and internal walls, the ceiling, and floor need installing. But there isn't much more wall insulation to install, it's just that I've got a load of timber in the way preventing me getting at the bays, and wherever I move it to, it will be in the way for something else.

I've just had to cough up £28 for an amendment to my PP to put windows in the front wall. I was going to have roof-lights, but I can't see that side of the roof, making it attractive to the bad guys. So, assuming they say Yes, I shall have shuttered windows where you see the holes.

I don't know when Ray is coming again, but Julian is back next Tuesday and I shall get him to help me install the door frame.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Both Julian and Ray have been here today. Julian has been I/C of finishing the wall insulation. Apart from a couple of little corners and the gable ends above the wall plate, that is now finished.

Ray and I spent all morning with a paper and pencil working out how best to cut and fit plasterboard. Remeber all that 2.4m / 8ft malarky we went through earlier, well now it is coming home to roost. But we have worked out that if we use 3m plasterboard instead of 2.4m, we can cut it will minimal waste. This is helped by the end bays in all 4 walls being narrower than the rest. But we need to clear some more space before I can take delivery af anything else, I have too much stuff stacked around as it is.

So after lunch we started putting insulation in the roof and boarding it over with OSB, Ray up top, as usual (although at least he was dry today, despite the rain) and Julian and I cut insulation and OSB to fit.



























Unfortunately Ray can't come again until next week 

S


----------



## Graham Orm

Any particular reason you are plaster boarding Steve? Any form of ply would give you something to screw to for shelving etc.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, fire regs. The wall has to withstand 30 mins.
S


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":3s5w1djj said:


> Yes, fire regs. The wall has to withstand 30 mins.
> S



Ah, seems odd on an detached out building.


----------



## Ring

Have you decided what kind of heating you are going to have. ?
Jim


----------



## Steve Maskery

No, not really.
My original plan was to have a sawdust burner, and I may still do that. But to start with I think I'll see how I get on with just little electric heater. It will be well-insulated, so I'm hoping that it won't bankrupt me in heating bills.
S


----------



## Wizard9999

Grayorm":2hqp869u said:


> Steve Maskery":2hqp869u said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, fire regs. The wall has to withstand 30 mins.
> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, seems odd on an detached out building.
Click to expand...


Not if any part of the building is within 1m of the boundary, then buildings regs requires a degree of resistance to fire - though whether this is to protect your neighbours from your building, or your building from Your neighbours is not really clear to me. If no part of the building is within a 1m then I would agree that is a little odd.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Exactly. The sides are <1m from the boundary and, in theory, my two neighbours could build in exactly the same way that I am doing, so if they go up, I go up.
The probability is infinitessimal, but that, apparently, is not the point.
S


----------



## angelboy

Steve Maskery":35x8obcd said:


> ...infinitessimal...




Steve, great WIP and I love you teaching me new words. I think I'd have said teeny-weeny but I do have 5 kids.


----------



## Brentingby

The BCO is convinced that once all your neighbors figure out you're a woodworker, they'll all want to become woodworkers too. There'll be sheds springing up in every garden. See what you've started ? 

It's coming along very nicely, Steve. 

What are you going to do to enclose the underside of the roof overhangs? Do you have birds trying to get in to roost out of the rain?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well a pleasant surprise today, Ray could come after all. So we have been putting up more of the ceiling. As usual, Ray was up top whilst I cut insulation and OSB. The insulation smells of fish. Yes really.

The slopey bits of the ceiling are about 1.5m, so we need a board and a quarter.












I think Ray would prefer it if I handed him the Paslode rather than fanny about with a camera.






One of the trusses is a bit skew-wiff, so we had to taper the ends of two boards so that the joint line stayed on the truss for fixing, but they marry well you would never know to look at it.

We didn't quite get it all finished, there is one more set of trusses to board, but we have made good progress.

Now I have to do some clearing up and reorganising this weekend, as I have 45 sheets of plasterboard arriving on Tuesday.


----------



## wcndave

To late for you then, however for others who need plasterboard for regs, but want to be able to screw stuff easily, I used formacell in my house. More expensive however will take a wood screw with no plugs, no problem. Also has better noise dampening quality.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm not planning to screw very much directly to the wall, and if I do I shall do it at stud partitions, but I shall have a French Cleat around the room and hang tool BOARDS etc. off that. I did that at my last place and it worked well.
S


----------



## whiskywill

Steve Maskery":rzt67a5z said:


> but I shall have a French Cleat around the room and hang tool boars etc. off that.



I have come across tool bores, but hanging them would be going a bit too far. Are these a different species? :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

God I'm knackered.
The day didn't start well. My Mac refused to boot because I'd got it too damp yesterday when I used a foam cleaner to clean it. It's a bit better now but half the keys still don't work. I'm typing this with an on-screen keyboard. It is very tedious. I hope it sorts itself out.

Anyway, I was expecting 45 boards today and a lorry turned up at 8.30, but there were only 28. The rest are coming tomorrow, apparently. I was a bit miffed because no-one had said anything about that, but right now I'm delighted.

We started carrying them between two of us. Of course, Ray could manage one under each arm , one in his teeth whilst balancing a fourth on his head, but we mere mortals struggled a bit. These are 3m boards, 15mm thick and it was blowing a gale. So Ray did something else, I forget what, whilst Terry, Julian and I carried them down, in between the very heavy showers. Even with 3 of us they were quite heavy enough.

Tomorrow there will be just Ray and me 

Anyway this what we have achieved.


























This is all the waste we have and the larger pieces will fit by the doors.






The only casualty today was my shirt. I snagged it on the fence and ripped the sleeve It's an old shirt but my favourite. My sartorial elegance has been compromised.

I hope my keyboard recovers, this is a right pain in the nethers. No space bar, comma, backspace or return key, amongst others. I did put it in the oven as low as it would go for a couple of hours. I think it might need a bit longer.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":adpsln6v said:


> I did put it in the oven as low as it would go for a couple of hours.



:shock:


----------



## dm65

Steve - if you are still having trouble with your keyboard, try a hairdryer on it and DON'T PUT IT IN THE OVEN AGAIN !!

Hairdryer, medium heat, fast as you can - the warm airflow should dry the contacts - I have done this successfully many times before


----------



## Steve Maskery

dm65":1hm8lzit said:


> I have done this successfully many times before


Slow learner? 
ThanksfortheadviceIlltryit.


----------



## dm65

Steve Maskery":oyj9muno said:


> dm65":oyj9muno said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have done this successfully many times before
> 
> 
> 
> Slow learner?
> ThanksfortheadviceIlltryit.
Click to expand...

I'd rather go far being a bit clumsy but you could be right


----------



## WibbleWobble

Another good way of getting moisture out of electronics is to put them in a bowl of rice. I have resurrected a couple of mobile phones and an aluminium iMac keyboard using this technique.


----------



## Racers

Airing cupboard is the best I have found for wet electronics. 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yesindeedifyouhaveanairinfcuboard


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":gv50omzb said:


> Yesindeedifyouhaveanairinfcuboard



Space bar not fixed yet then? :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

This morning started beautifully, so Ithought great, we'll be moving plasterboard in the dry. Except that it didnt arrive until 1 by which time it was raining.

They've delivered pink fire graded board because it was all they had in that size.

So this morning we did more boarding ....





I discovered I have a very wonky stud. The panel edge is vertical...






and this afternoon we carried 18 sheets down. My mate Stuart has lent me a trolley, to which we have screwed a couple of battens but although it was easier on the back I think Ray thought it was more trouble than it was worth.
















Now I need to buy a panel lifter.


----------



## SteveF

one of these ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/FoxHunter-Quali ... B00487PA42

or just hire for £70 a week

Steve


----------



## Brentingby

Good work, Steve.

That panel lifter Steve linked to looks good. Buy it, use it for as long as it takes to get the stuff on the walls and ceiling and sell it afterward. Someone else will be glad to get a gently used lifter for the price and it'll cost you less money than a week of hiring one.

As for your wonky stud, nail a scrap in down at the bottom and it'll all come out T.B.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray's just rung.
"Have you ordered a lifter?"
"Not yet"
"Don't bother, we can have one on loan for as long as we need".

He's just a magician.

Thiskeyboardisdrivingmenuts.


----------



## Doug B

Looks like great progress is being made, I'm glad you've got sorted with the board lifter Steve, sorry I couldn't help but after looking at the link above I'm starting to think I should buy one.

I finished 110 square metres of boarding in this room today







It's hard work on your own, so I figure the lifter will be ideal for you.

Best of luck with your progress, I'll try & get over in the not too distant future.


----------



## whiskywill

WibbleWobble":25yezgd0 said:


> Another good way of getting moisture out of electronics is to put them in a bowl of rice. I have resurrected a couple of mobile phones and an aluminium iMac keyboard using this technique.



I have some left over from last night's Chinese takeaway and was going to give it to my chickens. I'll try this first.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ithinkthericeneedstobeuncooked.........


----------



## Owl

IthinkyouneedanewkeyboardSteve


----------



## spiderlane

Speaking of plasterboard I've got 2 2400x1200 sheets of 12.5mm plasterboard along with a load of offcuts left over from a partition project.

Free to anyone who can collect from Coulsdon, Surrey. 

Sorry about the thread hijack, as you were 

Mark


----------



## WibbleWobble

whiskywill":3lfgoe6a said:


> WibbleWobble":3lfgoe6a said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another good way of getting moisture out of electronics is to put them in a bowl of rice. I have resurrected a couple of mobile phones and an aluminium iMac keyboard using this technique.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have some left over from last night's Chinese takeaway and was going to give it to my chickens. I'll try this first.
Click to expand...


Yes major oversight from the techy there..... Uncooked rice otherwise things get icky and yucky very very quickly :


----------



## Steve Maskery

Sorry about the silence, chaps, on-screen keyboards are a PITA.
However, I'm no longer data-input-challenged, so I'll give you the catchup.

On Saturday, Newbie_Neil came and gave me a hand. We've not seen each other for ages, so it was good to catch up. We cut out most of the recesses for the back-boxes.











The red decoration is Ray's DNA.

We didn't quite get them all done, but on Sunday I had a date. That should be Date with a capital D. Yes, I know I should be sectioned for even contemplating the idea, but it seemed like a good one at the time. Anyway, it didn't happen, she stood me up, so back on with the scruffy clothes and I finished them off and made a cherry and ginger cake, as well as having ago at
Paul Hollywood's sausage plait off Bake Off. Mine didn't look like his, but it did help to dissipate the anger of being messed about.

On Tuesday, both Ray and Julian were here and we had managed to borrow a board-lifter. It's pretty basic, it doesn't tilt (except when you don't want it to, one of the bolts is a bit loose), but it is a great help in getting the boards up in the air. We had to cobble together a bit of an extension to reach the full height.






as we went, we installed loft insulation











At the gable end we have to find a way to support the edge of the board, so a piece of slate lath does the job admirably.






And today we have done more of the same, plus I've had a visit from a Part-P sparky who is happy to inspect our work and sign it off. Somehow he and Ray discovered a shared love of Lambrettas (although I really think it should be Lambrette) they gassed about that for half an hour. Anyway, it looks like we have an electric plan. Thanks to Doug B for the rec.

So now the walls are plasterboarded to 2.4m and ceiling is more than half boarded with OSB. The plasterboard is going to be more challenging as it is twice the weight of the OSB.






No progress tomorrow, we have a funeral to attend, followed by a Date. Will someone please Section me before I do something stupid? (Yeah, yeah, far too late, I know). Actually it's an old friend, perfectly safe......


----------



## Doug B

For gods sake don't mention ferrets to him Steve :shock: 

I'm sure if he can sort Jacobs wiring your workshop shouldn't pose too many problems.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I have an interesting conundrum.

I have been given 21m of something called Unistrut. It's basically industrial T-track. I can fasten it up to my ceiling, and then I can hang anything I like from it. Lights, cameras, air-filters, anything really.

So what configuration should I use? I could put up two parallel runs, roughly 1/3 way across the room, or I could do a square, part way in all round.

What do you think would be most useful and why, please?


----------



## Charlie Woody

Not familiar with the product Steve but would you be able to use it to hook up your vac hose & cable above workbenches so they "follow" the tool without snagging on the bench edge?


----------



## Steve Maskery

That would be a very good use. My decision is about how to configure the track.
S


----------



## Charlie Woody

Won't that depend on how you layout machinery benches etc?


----------



## Henning

Steve Maskery":n6gac65y said:


> I have an interesting conundrum.
> 
> I have been given 21m of something called Unistrut. It's basically industrial T-track. I can fasten it up to my ceiling, and then I can hang anything I like from it. Lights, cameras, air-filters, anything really.
> 
> So what configuration should I use? I could put up two parallel runs, roughly 1/3 way across the room, or I could do a square, part way in all round.
> 
> What do you think would be most useful and why, please?



I'd say that totally depends on how you plan to lay out tools and equipment, but with that kind of space, I would probably centralise one or two Festool MFT tables and a proper workbench as well and then it would make the most sense to make a square above them to keep hoses.powercords etc. out of the way. Air filters and such can be fastened other places IMHO. Unistrut most definitely needs to be used for sliding things around in the ceiling  With that layout it would be possible to use for cameras for all corners of the workshop too, wouldn't it? 

Great progress Steve =D> You are lucky to have such friends.


----------



## n0legs

My brother in law has unistrut in his spray booth. Two runs, one down each side of the booth for the full length.
Over the years he's made loads of brackets and accessories for hanging and fixing stuff to be painted. Bristol levers make it quick and easy to move around.
For you Steve I would have a dedicated light bar made up for the filming you do, when not in use it could be pushed to one end of the workshop for safe keeping. Another could be sorted for the camera, maybe with a sort of "rise and fall" set up for high and low level shots.
It would be good to use it for extraction hoses and extension leads to keep the floor clear. It wouldn't take you long or much difficulty to get some good use out of it.


----------



## Benchwayze

Is this the stuff Steve? 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-Slotted- ... 4adda67226

I am looking to get some of that to fabricate a castored-trolley for my planer. 
It might not work, of course! 



Cheers 
John


----------



## Steve Maskery

That is exactly the stuff, John.


----------



## n0legs

Benchwayze":2i17mkac said:


> Is this the stuff Steve?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-Slotted- ... 4adda67226
> 
> I am looking to get some of that to fabricate a castored-trolley for my planer.
> It might not work, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> John




There used to be a range of fittings for it as well making it really useful stuff. Brackets, hinges, plates even wheels and castors IIRC.


----------



## Benchwayze

Cheers Steve and Nolegs.

I see it comes in different depths of channel, and I think the electrical 'track' is not as deep as the stuff I found. 
Looks like grown-up boys' Meccano! It might well work for my planer. Hope so. I can't weld!


----------



## Deejay

n0legs":4h9ywjvd said:


> Benchwayze":4h9ywjvd said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the stuff Steve?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-Slotted- ... 4adda67226
> 
> I am looking to get some of that to fabricate a castored-trolley for my planer.
> It might not work, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There used to be a range of fittings for it as well making it really useful stuff. Brackets, hinges, plates even wheels and castors IIRC.
Click to expand...


There still is ...

http://www.unistrut.co.uk/index.php?M1= ... Assemblies

Very versatile kit.

Cheers

Dave


----------



## Eric The Viking

A couple of lengths, widely spaced, so you can have movable cross-beams of whatever sort you choose. That gives the best flexibility for lights etc. 

You could also use the arrangement for a backing roll for photography (giant-scale roller blind, basically). For anything as big as furniture, you ideally need the backing at least 2/3 as far from the subject as the camera is - this allows the b/g to be out of focus for reasonable camera apertures (f5.6 and a bit wider). Simple geometry means you then need a quite big background!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I have had both Ray and Akram here and we have done a lot. All of it ceiling work, so there isn't a huge amount to write about, but we have made a lot of progress. My ceiling is largely pink.

The plasterboard is very heavy. It's 3m long and 15mm thick, so it's a lot more than a standard board. Plus it's not strong enough to support its own weight, when held by the ends. So we started by using a couple of lengths of 4x1 to add rigidity whilst we were handling it. It was good but too much sliding around, so we decided to screw the 4x1s to the plasterboard itself







It was a disaster, because as soon as we lifted it up by the wood, it just pulled out. So instead we made a bit of a wood frame, which I'm afraid I haven't photographed, because for all the important moments, we had Ray and Akram on the scaffolding and me up the ladder, or me operating the hoist. At one point all three of us were on the scaffolding. This stuff is heavy and unwieldy. I don't think it would be possible to do the job without the hoist, to be honest.
















Good work, today, good work.

So now I am typing this whilst Akram keeps an eye on the spag bol and tonight I'm going to introduce him to the delights of an English folk club.....


----------



## Jamesc

Eric The Viking":o0gg58ub said:


> A couple of lengths, widely spaced, so you can have movable cross-beams of whatever sort you choose. That gives the best flexibility for lights etc.
> 
> You could also use the arrangement for a backing roll for photography (giant-scale roller blind, basically). For anything as big as furniture, you ideally need the backing at least 2/3 as far from the subject as the camera is - this allows the b/g to be out of focus for reasonable camera apertures (f5.6 and a bit wider). Simple geometry means you then need a quite big background!




+1 for this suggestion. We use this extensively for hanging pipework and cable tray. I would add a third down the centre. 

James


----------



## gwr

Hi Steve great looking space you have there do you have any costings to date if that's not being too nosey.


----------



## StevieB

One solution to the plasterboard problem is to cut the boards in half and then put them up - cut line hardly shows and if plastering not an issue at all. Just costs you a few more screws per board. I have done this when handling boards on my own for ceilings.

Steve


----------



## Eric The Viking

StevieB":2woly0uj said:


> One solution to the plasterboard problem is to cut the boards in half and then put them up - cut line hardly shows and if plastering not an issue at all. Just costs you a few more screws per board. I have done this when handling boards on my own for ceilings.
> 
> Steve



Thank you. 

I'm notorious (in the family) for sometimes missing the wood because of the trees. Simplest solution: often the best.

Regards, Homer (homer)


----------



## whiskywill

Deejay":9l9fokef said:


> n0legs":9l9fokef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Benchwayze":9l9fokef said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the stuff Steve?
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/41mm-Slotted- ... 4adda67226
> 
> I am looking to get some of that to fabricate a castored-trolley for my planer.
> It might not work, of course!
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There used to be a range of fittings for it as well making it really useful stuff. Brackets, hinges, plates even wheels and castors IIRC.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There still is ...
> 
> http://www.unistrut.co.uk/index.php?M1= ... Assemblies
> 
> Very versatile kit.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave
Click to expand...


This is an alternative from BSS. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... Eu_kzoOSfw 
Last time I used Unistrut they insisted that I ordered larger quantities than I needed like a pack of ten brackets when I only wanted two of a kind.
Sitebox sells individual bits of Unistrut. http://www.sitebox.ltd.uk/search?q=unistrut


----------



## cutting42

Steve Maskery":3q0nogiv said:


> So now I am typing this whilst Akram keeps an eye on the spag bol and tonight I'm going to introduce him to the delights of an English folk club.....



Cool, which folk club?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today we have almost finished OSBing the ceiling. As we did the last run it got very tight for Ray to work. Indeed, he had to remove a couple of sections of the temporary bracing we put in when we first installed the trusses. Even so, it was a squeeze for Ray to be able to reach the loft insulation.











Unfortunately we are one board short 






We nearly didn't have any more photos at all, as I managed to knock over my camera and tripod and didn't manage to catch it before it went crashing to the concrete floor. Fortunately it appears to have survived, but I'm afraid I did utter a naughty word.

We haven't done any plasterboard, they are just too heavy to lift with just the two of us. Indeed, it was quite hard enough just shifting them around. We had three piles, one of 11mm OSB for the ceiling, one of 18mm OSB that we had been using for the outside, but I have bought far too much, and a pile of plasterboard, all of which were in the way for doing the back half of the ceiling. So we have moved everything to one pile. It's created loads of space and as the ceiling starts to look more complete, I'm getting excited again about this project. For quite a while I've been wondering what on earth was I thinking starting this project in the first place, but today I found myself imagining working in there.

I've also spent a bit of time squirting PU foam into all the nooks and crannies left from the patchwork of the cadged foam. But one can has done the lot and I bought 3 cans and was given another three, so whilst it may not be the National Collection of foam canisters, it certainly is a surfeit. 

The next time we can both make it is next Wednesday, when I hope Akram can come again. We certainly need as many hands as possible for the plasterboard.

Still we have made good progress and it now looks like this


----------



## Eric The Viking

Jolly good, on many levels!

I'm like you with foam - I never know how to gauge how much I'll need. Earlier in the autumn I took an old can up a ladder to fill a small hole and the wretched stuff came out sideways from the valve, not the nozzle at all. I wasn't best pleased, but didn't quite fall off.

It does look rather posh in there!


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## Steve Maskery

Sorry, C42, I didn't answer your question.
Mansfield Folk Club
S


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## cutting42

Steve Maskery":ro2hwch5 said:


> Sorry, C42, I didn't answer your question.
> Mansfield Folk Club
> S



Cool. I was brought up going to folk clubs and festivals by my morris dancing parents and my dad was big sea shanty singer as well. My brother has earned his living playing folk music for the past 20+ years.


Love a bit of folk!


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## gregmcateer

Steve, if the plasterboard is too big and heavy, just cut it in half and do it in sections.
I know your workshop is more impressive than many houses, but a few extra plasterboard lines surely ain't gonna hurt, (and if you're plastering it, it's just a bit more scrim tape)

Love the WIP, by the way - it looks great


----------



## billybuntus

Steve Maskery":3qfopcwz said:


> I hope my keyboard recovers, this is a right pain in the nethers. No space bar, comma, backspace or return key, amongst others. I did put it in the oven as low as it would go for a couple of hours. I think it might need a bit longer.



May I be so bold as to suggest you order a new one.

http://www.ebuyer.com/495408-cherry-bla ... 000lungb-2

Less than the cost of a sheet of plasterboard.

PS, If I was nearby I would happily lend a hand to get the plasterboard up there.


----------



## dexter

Hi Steve, I expect you`ll "want to be in by Christmas" to coin that well used phrase. 
Forgive me if I missed it in the previous posts but are you or have you considered putting in an access point to get into the space above the ceiling? It could prove useful if you ever decided to make changes to lighting etc.

Dex


----------



## Steve Maskery

Sorry for not replying, chaps, I've been away.
Keyboard sorted, thank you. It's not the same, but it works.

I did think of an access hatch, but I'm not sure there is any point. There is such a tiny space up there, even skinny Ray struggles. I'd just be jammed. So I don't think I'll bother. It wouldn't be so difficult to fit one retrospectively if I absolutely had to

I hope we can get the PB finished this week, the lifter owner wants it back.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's time to start fitting the wiring for the alarm system. I plan to have the control panel on the LH side of the door (as viewed from the inside) and have two boxes, one on the front of the building and one inside the house.

Does anyone have a rec for a good DIY system? Unfortunately I don't think I can get a landline phone cable down there very easily, so I can't use the dial alert facility, so it doesn't need to be fancy, just reliable.
S


----------



## Setch

Steve, a few systems support a GSM sim card and can dial out that way. The one I'm familiar with is the Scantronic Ion-16, which may be overkill for the 'shop, especially as it supports wireless components. Maybe something similar is available in a wired system?


----------



## Brentingby

Maybe wireless would work well in this application.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Can anyone help this Thursday?

I'd like to get this plasterboard up because the guy who owns the lifter wants it back, and the guy who I thought could help this week now has some paid work to do and can't come 

I've got replacement help on Wednesday, but if you can help on Thursday, you will be very welcome!
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today we have finished plasterboarding the ceiling! Hooray!
That's it, really. My mate Bob, of Workshop Essentials Theme Tune fame (composer and performer), came to help, but he can't come tomorrow. 
Here are some pictures:















We used a batten tacked to the wall to support the end of the board . This made lifting the board up at an angle much easier.











If you are at loose end, we can still use you tomorrow. We hope to finish the gable ends.

S


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## Brentingby

Very nice! I wish I could come and help you instead of doing what I have to do tomorrow.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Brentingby":1l0x28md said:


> Very nice! I wish I could come and help you instead of doing what I have to do tomorrow.



Bunk off work 
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Knackered.

Oh, you want more than that, do you? 

Well we started on the gables today. Because the gable trusses are thinner than the wall on which they sit, we have to make up some supporting timbers to carry the plasterboard up to the ceiling. So we cobbled together some bits of 4x2 and 2x1 to do that:







Then we cut bits of insulation to fit and used PU foam to fill the remaining nooks and crannies. It's a real jigsaw, but it means that the whole area is well-insulated.






Fitting the plasterboard was not as harrowing as we had anticipated. We thought we would struggle with just the two of us but the grey board is less dense than the pink stuff we had been using on the ceiling, and we had to trim about 17cm off the width as well as the corner. I'm not saying it was light, but we did manage. So we tacked a batten to the wall again, loaded up the board onto our frame and lifter and hoisted it up. Once we had it on the batten and locked in position we tilted it up and screwed it in place.











Aren't you impressed that I managed to set the camera and get up the ladder before it clicked? You should be, I could not have done that 6 months ago. My knee is a lot better, although the autumnal weather hasn't done it any favours. But I'm a lot more mobile than I was. 

Then we did the same at the other end and filled in the piece in between. It suddenly looks higher.






Sorry about the wonky angle, I obviously wasn't paying attention.

The only duff event of the day was that one of my site lights has burnt out. I heard it fizzing - which is never a good thing, is it? - and within a few minutes it was dimming and smoking and finally it went out. TBH, I'm surprised it worked at all, as it was one of the few things that survived the storage at the farm. I think I'm going to have to spend some more money at Screwfix tomorrow.

I'm not sure when we do some more.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've done a bit more today. I've fitted insulation to the top of the remaining gable wall (the right one, as viewed from the front) so when Ray comes again we can crack on with this last bit of plasterboarding.






I've also installed a load more screws. Some of the PBs were installed with just a few screws to get them in place, but we have to secure them at 150mm centres around the edges and 200mm centres across the board.

And the I found something slightly worrying.

I have to do a drainage test. Dig a hole 300mm cube in the garden, fill it full of water and time how long it takes to drain away. The idea is to calculate how big a soakaway I need dig out. So I put in my spade and... at one spade depth I hit something hard. I don't yet know what it is. It looks flat, so I don't think it is a pipe. It might be concrete, but I've no idea yet how far it extends. It's in the middle of the area in front of the workshop, towards the log cabin. If it is some huge slab that has simply been covered over with soil then I think I have a problem.


----------



## dickm

Steve Maskery":1x1opcq9 said:


> If it is some huge slab that has simply been covered over with soil then I think I have a problem.


On the other hand, it might be a nice big cesspit or septic tank which you can use as a soakaway :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

As long as it isn't a mine shaft. The ex-pit head is only 200m away.


----------



## Brentingby

If it is a mine shaft, it'll probably take all the run off you get and then some. I hope it's just a small paving stone, though.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good day, not so good day.

The day started by me waking at 4am and not getting back to sleep, so I already felt lousy when Ray turned up. Then later, on a trip to Screwfix for some more screws I went through a speed camera. I don't _think _I was speeding, but it is a 30 area and downhill. It's very easy to do it without realising it. Fingers crossed. I'm usually very careful and I like to think I always know how fast I am driving. It would be just my luck to get caught the one time I don't pay so much attention. We'll see.

Indeed, not having much luck at all with cars at the mo, I had a visit from my neighbour yesterday asking had I seen my car. Someone had smashed eggs all over the windscreen and front wing. Why do they do that?

Anyway, the rest of the day has been good. The gable finished boarded and the back wall too. 





We've even made a start on the front. This is a bit more fiddly as we have to work around the openings. TBH I've not quite worked out the details of how I am going to finish trim all the openings, so in the absence of a better idea I'm fitting all the PB flush with the apertures. Some bits have to be notched to fit and so, to prove I do have some hand skills:











We have one sheet of PB left and a few offcuts that are useable and it should be just enough to finish the job, with very little waste. Very satisfying.

More on Thursday, ABW.


----------



## Brentingby

Good on you, Steve! It'll be all snug soon.


----------



## monkeybiter

Just looking at the piccy of you sawing the sheet, that's a solid looking bench!

It's going to be a lovely space to work in.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I do hope so. I have bought a few too many sheets of OSB...

OTOH, IIUIC, we have, between us, made history. I believe that this thread is now the most visited in the history of UKW. Thank you all for making it so.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2ynqacy5 said:


> IIUIC, we have, between us, made history. I believe that this thread is now the most visited in the history of UKW. Thank you all for making it so.



I think there's still a lot of life in it too. Gonna set a high bar.


----------



## xy mosian

Steve Maskery":1sezk6ej said:


> OTOH, IIUIC, we have, between us, made history. I believe that this thread is now the most visited in the history of UKW. Thank you all for making it so.



An expensive way of achieving that distinction, building a huge shed  

I'm looking forward to reading of the remaining build, hopefully the fitting out too. All power to your elbow Steve.

xy


----------



## Newbie_Neil

Hi Steve,



Steve Maskery":19hd8gi0 said:


> OTOH, IIUIC, we have, between us, made history. I believe that this thread is now the most visited in the history of UKW. Thank you all for making it so.



I didn't tell you about my Tool Store thread, did I? That is sitting at 58,727 at the moment. But, at the speed you're amassing hits, you'll surpass that one too. :lol: 

See you on Saturday,
Neil


----------



## Graham Orm

You've done a grand job Steve. A big enterprise like that has a wearing effect on you and sometimes you've just had enough. You have kept plugging away and there is very clear light at the end of the tunnel now. I don't know what you have in mind, but Rob Cosman does a very good job of making weekly subscribeable videos. I don't know how much money he makes from it, but you have the know how, and now the studio to compete from this side pf the pond.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Newbie_Neil":2sfuf5fq said:


> I didn't tell you about my Tool Store thread, did I? That is sitting at 58,727 at the moment.
> Neil



No you didn't you pipper. I've just embarrassed myself in front of the whole world!
Still, I do like a challenge... 



Newbie_Neil":2sfuf5fq said:


> See you on Saturday,
> Neil



Yes indeed.
S


----------



## Doug B

Have your neighbours been having a house warming party Steve :shock: 

http://www.chad.co.uk/news/local/update ... -1-6961699


----------



## Steve Maskery

I had noticed that the road was closed off, I didn't realise that was why.
I live in a dump 
S


----------



## Doug B

Steve Maskery":220tj7av said:


> I had noticed that the road was closed off, I didn't realise that was why.
> I live in a dump
> S




It seems to be everywhere these days Steve, though I did wonder if you felt more relaxed last night & got a better nights sleep than usual :wink:


----------



## Racers

How many plants will Steve get in to his "workshop" :wink: 


Pete


----------



## monkeybiter

Could have a UKW Hash Bash


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray's been today, but I've been a bit of a spare part. OK, we finished the front wall







well, nearly. We can't do the bit round the door until the power supply is done.

And I've finished screwing the PB and had a trip to the tip (all the waste PB from the whole job went easily into the back of my car in one trip), but I've not done much more. Actually I've been well below par. I was ill in the middle of the night and haven't felt right all day. I hope I'm not going down with the lurgy.

Anyway, whilst I was being useless, Ray went on to tape and fill the back wall.
















Same again tomorrow, I think.


----------



## Bigdanny

Hi Steve,
Good work on the workshop so far. Good to see you're only plastering the gaps and screw holes. A lot of people seem to think the whole surface needs skimming. I'm sure you know but for painting PB I normally give a little sand if/ or where required then I wipe down the whole area with a damp cloth , regularly rinsing in a bucket of water then use a primer or watered down emulsion as the first coat.
Its going well
Danny


----------



## StevieB

Bigdanny":2hrjwbpa said:


> Hi Steve,
> Good work on the workshop so far. Good to see you're only plastering the gaps and screw holes. A lot of people seem to think the whole surface needs skimming. I'm sure you know but for painting PB I normally give a little sand if/ or where required then I wipe down the whole area with a damp cloth , regularly rinsing in a bucket of water then use a primer or watered down emulsion as the first coat.
> Its going well
> Danny



Depends - if you have square edged PB then plastering the whole lot is necessary. With tapered edge PB you can skim the joins after taping as there is enough depth. I prefer to plaster the lot (or more accurately get someone who can plaster to do it!) so I get an even paint finish that doesn't show the joins.

Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

I think Ray is planning to do some sort of wash skim. I'm not certain, but he has a hayloft that he has converted into a sort of function room and that looks perfect, so however he wants to do it, I'm not going to argue.
S


----------



## gwr

That's 1 great looking workspace Steve should stay warm in the winter, You and your helpers have done a great job on it, Have you started looking for the powerd verity of toys to fill it yet or have any thoughts on what you will go for ?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today has been slow but profitable.

It started with a visit from the BCO. He took one look and smiled. "Excellent", he said, "this is the best Shed I've ever seen." He went on to tell me that one of the neighbours had complained. "Have you seen that $%^&*() great big thing that someone has put up over there?" 
"Yes, and it's all above board". Obviously I don't know which neighbour, but from his gaze it was someone on the parallel street. There is always someone who wants to rain on your parade, isn't there?

Plus, I've made a mistake and have been looking for a solution that doesn't involve me having to sell my body on the streets to fund it, and we have finally found one that meets his approval. I'll talk about it more when we do the work, but not now.

He's coming again when we have dug the soakaway. I've only got to dig a hole 1.5m cubed, that's all.

Anyway, Ray has now done about half of the ceiling with his taping, 





and I went shopping for cable and consumer unit We are going to jury-rig the electrics from the log cabin as a temporary fix, so we can have lights and possibly my table saw (which will be helpful when I fit all the trim) from the existing outside circuitry until the trench is dug.

Here are some pics:

One of the jobs is to fix, temporarily, the lag screws for the unistrut stuff, so we can still find the trusses when the ceiling is finished. 






The Unistrut itself is designed for, surprise, surprise, 600mm centres and I, you will recall, decided to be the all-American workshop on 2ft centres. So I had to slot a couple of places for the fixings.






We had the foresight, when we cast the concrete slab, to make access holes by putting a couple of pieces of foam around the perimeter, and labelling where they are! So I could drill a hole from the inside, through the sole-plate and pull the armoured cable through.











So although it doesn't look a lot different, it has been a very satisfactory day.


----------



## MickCheese

Keep it up Steve looking good and a great read. 

Mick


----------



## NickWelford

Do you think you would get much on the streets for your body, Steve?


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Keep going Steve, it's looking great.
If I was closer I'd pop round and connect that armoured cable up for you.

Tony


----------



## Graham Orm

I have a fantastic body, I keep it in the shed under an old carpet.


----------



## Steve Maskery

NickWelford":x85yy6af said:


> Do you think you would get much on the streets for your body, Steve?



Cheeky!
Actually this is Kirkby and I am average build round here...


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've definitely been out-shedded here. Spend 3m30s of your life watching this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... sTB0HnM6WM
S


----------



## Baldhead

Steve Maskery":21rpqv3j said:


> I've definitely been out-shedded here. Spend 3m30s of your life watching this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... sTB0HnM6WM
> S


Steve I've seen it before, I think someone posted a link to it on this site, I watched it again though, I find the Amish a fascinating culture, if only we adopted there ideas, your 'shed' would have been up and running in a couple of days!

Baldhead


----------



## MickCheese

I must have missed it last time. 

That's what we all need. An army of ants. 

Mick


----------



## Chrispy

Baldhead":39kjftia said:


> Steve Maskery":39kjftia said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've definitely been out-shedded here. Spend 3m30s of your life watching this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... sTB0HnM6WM
> S
> 
> 
> 
> Steve I've seen it before, I think someone posted a link to it on this site, I watched it again though, I find the Amish a fascinating culture, if only we adopted there ideas, your 'shed' would have been up and running in a couple of days!
> 
> Baldhead
Click to expand...

Come on, even Steve couldn't cook enough cake to keep that lot going!


----------



## terrymck

Looking great Steve. I know this is in the not to distant future and might not yet be in your thoughts but are you going to be running any ductwork for dust extraction?
BTW I saw Workshop Essentials being advertised in Pop Woodworking  . The Americans may make some orders.


----------



## Steve Maskery

terrymck":32l0gqxm said:


> Looking great Steve. I know this is in the not to distant future and might not yet be in your thoughts but are you going to be running any ductwork for dust extraction?



Good q. I'd like to, but this is already costing me a fortune, so I'll probably just make do with my standalone unit (which I do still have) for the time being.



terrymck":32l0gqxm said:


> BTW I saw Workshop Essentials being advertised in Pop Woodworking  . The Americans may make some orders.



Yes, they took box-load of DVDs and, furthermore, it was a very professional transaction, so that was a very welcome deal. I don't know how many they have sold, but one or two people have come to me to buy the other half of the collection, so it does bode well.


----------



## terrymck

Great stuff. I'm heavily active on Marc Spagnuolo's WoodTalkOnline Forum and have been extolling the virtues of your DVD set to the members. Planting the seed shall we say.

Terry


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you very much, that is much appreciated.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today Ray finished taping and filling the ceiling joints. We had to get the scaffolding to the front half of the room, which wasn't easy as some dork had left a pile of panels in the way.












Whilst Ray was doing that, I was sorting out the area above the door. We'd already made the panel, when Akram was here, but to fit it I wanted to fill the area with insulation. The lintel already has 50mm of insulation in it, and there was room for another 60mm. So it was jigsaw puzzle time again. I stole some from the void in the TL corner and then filled that with 100mm stuff that was left over from doing the rest of the walls.
















I've colour-coded all the cables so that I know which cable powers what.

One mildly amusing thing that happened today was Ray going to Travis Perkins to ask about Joint Finish. Joint Finish is a product that you can put on the PB to make it smooth and all white and a good base for painting. It has the advantage that it is non-cementitious, so it just dries rather than sets. You can wet it and rework it if you need to. It's made by British Gypsum Limited. It says so in in Ray's Blue Book of Plasterboard, published by British Gypsum Limited. But TP had no knowledge of this product and we couldn't find it on BGL's site either.

So I rang BGL's Tech Support. No, never heard of it. It turns out that Ray's Blue Book of Plasterboard was published in 1967.

The equivalent product today is Drywall Primer and appears to vary in price enormously depending on where you buy it. This project is bankrupting me. But there is no sense in stopping now, is there?


----------



## John Brown

Steve Maskery":orynbxyl said:


> I've definitely been out-shedded here. Spend 3m30s of your life watching this:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... sTB0HnM6WM
> S


I reckon that's been speeded up.


----------



## Woodmonkey

Steve where did you get your Ray from, I could use one of those


----------



## Steve Maskery

Mansfield Folk Club, actually. I should be going tonight but I am too knackered. Last night we had Police helicopters overhead in the middle of the night and the night before there was a brawl in the street at 1.20am. Something to do with someone eyeing up somebody else's missus, IIUIC. Given that I've had a weekend of Doing Nice Things, for a change, and working on the build today, I just want a QNI.
BOF Steve.


----------



## Owl

Woodmonkey":120dq1lc said:


> Steve where did you get your Ray from, I could use one of those




I believe Ray works for less than the minimum rate ..................... a few slices of cake per day :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ssshhhhhh! So far I haven't been rumbled....


----------



## IHc1vtr+

Ray looks very familiar, could you ask him if he worked at IBA in alfreton.


----------



## Flynnwood

Steve Maskery":2qltax5y said:


> Today Ray finished taping and filling the ceiling joints. We had to get the scaffolding to the front half of the room, which wasn't easy as some dork had left a pile of panels in the way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whilst Ray was doing that, I was sorting out the area above the door. We'd already made the panel, when Akram was here, but to fit it I wanted to fill the area with insulation. The lintel already has 50mm of insulation in it, and there was room for another 60mm. So it was jigsaw puzzle time again. I stole some from the void in the TL corner and then filled that with 100mm stuff that was left over from doing the rest of the walls.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've colour-coded all the cables so that I know which cable powers what.
> 
> One mildly amusing thing that happened today was Ray going to Travis Perkins to ask about Joint Finish. Joint Finish is a product that you can put on the PB to make it smooth and all white and a good base for painting. It has the advantage that it is non-cementitious, so it just dries rather than sets. You can wet it and rework it if you need to. It's made by British Gypsum Limited. It says so in in Ray's Blue Book of Plasterboard, published by British Gypsum Limited. But TP had no knowledge of this product and we couldn't find it on BGL's site either.
> 
> So I rang BGL's Tech Support. No, never heard of it. It turns out that Ray's Blue Book of Plasterboard was published in 1967.
> 
> The equivalent product today is Drywall Primer and appears to vary in price enormously depending on where you buy it. This project is bankrupting me. But there is no sense in stopping now, is there?




Not enough info for me (and I'm tired) though maybe this is suitable?

http://www.johnstonestrade.com/products ... ning-paint

The TDS:

http://ukppgacprd.blob.core.windows.net ... 0Paint.pdf


----------



## Steve Maskery

That may be an very good solution. I rate Johnstones Paint very highly.Thank you.
S


----------



## dc_ni

Owl":36jru5eu said:


> Woodmonkey":36jru5eu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve where did you get your Ray from, I could use one of those
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I believe Ray works for less than the minimum rate ..................... a few slices of cake per day :wink:
Click to expand...


From what we've seen of Steve's baking abilities I think he's very well paid if he gets that much cake a day 

Have you thought of doing some Baking Essentials videos Steve? :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

You wouldn't suggest that if you'd tried the lemon muffins I made last week. They ended up in the bin. My tablesaw is lighter than they were.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Half the lights up. 

Today we have put up three lights, two ceiling power outlets and a full length of Unistrut. It might not sound much but it has been a full day. Well, a full day by our standards, I wasn't actually dressed when Ray arrived this morning. I've not slept very well recently.

It might look as if Ray is doing absolutely everything, but the lights are a two-man job and I can't set the camera and get up the scaffolding in ten seconds.






Some more of the Unistrut had to be slotted to accommodate our 8ft/2.4m _faux pas_,






We also put PB in that space above the door, and I am assured that the electrician will call next week.











We have been talking about paint and floors. I am beginning to be enthused again. Of course, when you start on a project like this you are full of enthusiasm, but TBH, for a long time, this has been a long drag and I've been wondering what on earth I was thinking of. But now I am really beginning to see the end result in my mind's eye. That's not to say the job is nearly done, it most certainly isn't. But paint and floors seem like finishing touches. I mustn't get complacent, lots of work yet, especially outside.
S


----------



## Racers

Steve's Cathedral of Woodwork!

Pete


----------



## Graham Orm

Racers":355liuuh said:


> Steve's Cathedral of Woodwork!
> 
> Pete



Just said to the wife it's like a bloody cathedral!!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Just as long as you come and bow at the altar.
S


----------



## doctor Bob

Sorry I can't catch up on this thread, tooooo much, but are you going to have an open day?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I forgot to say, I think I have cocked up on the ceiling electrics. I do think it is a good idea to have some power up there, but I should have put the switches in the wall, not just use switched sockets on the ceiling. It means I'm going to have to poke about with a stick to switch stuff on and off!
silly person.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

doctor Bob":3i5tta01 said:


> Sorry I can't catch up on this thread, tooooo much, but are you going to have an open day?



Yes, I shall have at least two. One for all the elves who have helped along the way and then another for all the folk who have given me such great moral support along the way. Or just sat on their bums and looked on whilst the rest of us worked our socks off, whichever way you want to look at it! 

That was a joke, I'm really grateful for the moral support. as I'm sure you know.

S


----------



## xy mosian

Steve Maskery":l00gt468 said:


> I forgot to say, I think I have cocked up on the ceiling electrics. I do think it is a good idea to have some power up there, but I should have put the switches in the wall, not just use switched sockets on the ceiling. It means I'm going to have to poke about with a stick to switch stuff on and off!
> silly person.
> S



Is there a chance of adding a 13A Pull Switch next to the socket to isolate it, effectively switching it. If you don't like the idea of a toggle, just out of reach, then a rigid loop could be added to use with a shepherds crook  , or similar.
xy


----------



## Scottdimelow

Zinnser gardz is a good product for plasterboard, it seals very well. You can then just apply normal contract emulsion which is cheap and cheerful, I like Johnstone's Jonmat. That's what I'd use and I'm a deccie


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":lh6ifn6b said:


> Just as long as you *come* and *bow* at the altar.
> S



I read that three times to make sure it wasn't the other way round. I didn't think the church couldn't be so open minded :shock: 

Good work Steve, keep it up


----------



## RogerS

xy mosian":wk6oa7ju said:


> Steve Maskery":wk6oa7ju said:
> 
> 
> 
> I forgot to say, I think I have cocked up on the ceiling electrics. I do think it is a good idea to have some power up there, but I should have put the switches in the wall, not just use switched sockets on the ceiling. It means I'm going to have to poke about with a stick to switch stuff on and off!
> silly person.
> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there a chance of adding a 13A Pull Switch next to the socket to isolate it, effectively switching it. If you don't like the idea of a toggle, just out of reach, then a rigid loop could be added to use with a shepherds crook  , or similar.
> xy
Click to expand...


Or those remotes from Maplin.


----------



## nanscombe

How about using short single switched extension leads?

You could switch the item off or simply unplug it.


----------



## StevieB

Steve Maskery":ncvil8pw said:


> I forgot to say, I think I have cocked up on the ceiling electrics. I do think it is a good idea to have some power up there, but I should have put the switches in the wall, not just use switched sockets on the ceiling. It means I'm going to have to poke about with a stick to switch stuff on and off!
> silly person.
> S



Steve - remote switched sockets are your answer here, something like this:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/home-easy-rem ... -kit/55334

You would still need to get up to the ceiling to change the plugged in appliance, but if you are running static machines from the ceiling sockets then this is not an issue.

Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I think that is a good solution. I do own a set, I used to switch on my DX that way. I don't know if I still have them, I've not seen them, but I do still have a box or two that I've not yet opened, so we'll see.


----------



## Racers

You can get shower pull switches rated at about 45A, might be another way round the problem.

Pete


----------



## xy mosian

I've just noticed the ceiling mounted sockets are 'flat' to the ceiling. Surely this will mean the weight of the cable will be trying to tear the plug from the socket. Would it be better to mount the sockets on a short vertical surface? A more natural use for the standard 13A plug. It would also benefit if using plug-in remote switches.
xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

Pete:
That had crossed my mind, but I think that the remote controlled switches are a good solution.

xy:
I'd not thought of that, although I don't think it would be a problem Anything that I plug into it will have its weight supported by the Unistrut, not by the cable. Thanks for pointing it out though, it is something to be considered.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today we have put up the rest of the Unistrut, the other three lights and the two remaining ceiling sockets.

We started with the Unistrut. We've cocked up a bit here. I have seven 3m lengths. I should have cut one into three and then worked out how to put two lengths and a piece up to the ceiling. Instead we put two lengths up, one at each end, and then a filler piece between them. But that filler piece is more than 1m so I have a piece left of about 18" or so and a gap in the center of about 1.3m. So if anyone has a bit of Unistrut that you don't want, send it along to me, will you please?

We were feeling a bit impatient on the lighting front, so we checked that the end of the cable on light no. 4 (which wasn't connected at that point) was not going to short, we jury-rigged it up with plug so that we could switch them on.

So we did. 

Nothing. Well, nothing for a couple of seconds. Then the three lights lit up. Sort of. "Ta-dah!", says I. "Are they on?", says Ray. It was certainly disappointing. It was dull and the tubes themselves didn't seem uniformly bright, the centres of the tubes were decidedly dark. I though that 12 tubes would be fine for that space, but we talked about the possibility of extending the lighting circuit and putting up three more units down the centre of the room. And swapping all the 58W tubes for 70W tubes. We were not happy.

But we had work to do, so we unplugged the lights, switched the site lights back on and fixed up the remaining three batten lights.

So we switched them all on again and we were a bit surprised. The three first ones were decidedly brighter now than they were earlier. The tubes themselves were brighter and the dark centres were not so noticeable. Over the next 20 minutes or so the tubes gradually got brighter. I went to make a cuppa and when I came down again it was a really excellent light. Bright, very even, with little in the way of the way in shadows and a good colour, to boot. A very nice working environment. Phew!







I've positioned the lights at 25% and 75% of the way across the room. I'm beginning to wish I'd done it at 30% and 70%, they seem a bit far apart. But it's a minor point and I think I shall be able to film with little or even no auxilliary lighting. Maybe just a spot for shadows that I do want. Anyway, I think it's going to be a smashing environment. 

To give you an idea, this photo of Ray finishing off the taping and filling was taken without flash in our new illuminated workspace.






Ray likes it. "It's a pleasure to work in this, I shan't want to go home!". Fine by me!

I'm assured that the sparky will come "one day next week" so we should have a reasonably sound supply soon. We haven't dug the trench yet, and probably won't until the spring, now, but we think we can tap off the supply to the log cabin as a temporary measure.

So next we intend to clear the timber from the front, hang the door, board up the window, make a temporary pair of double doors and generally get the place fully weathertight. Although it doesn't rain in, it is quite damp in there. We can tell from the state of the cardboard packaging. It is still open to the outside air, and I've never lived anywhere as foggy as Kirkby. It's never cleared today and last week we had two days straight of it.


----------



## paulm

It's really coming to life Steve, you're getting there ! 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve I've just picked up an identical light to those you have from Gumtree for my own shop. I too was disappointed with the performance and tried taking out the silver squared stuff in the middle, this made a big difference.


----------



## xy mosian

Hi Steve I didn't think you would be having tools etc., hanging from the sockets, only the heavy cable itself. However if the unsupported cable length is to be short(ish) I don't think there will be a problem. After all some mid cable support could be added to the unistrut if it looked to be necessary.

Cracking work, keep it up.

xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well yes, you can, but it makes it very harsh. That Cat2 louvre is designed to improve the glare. I'm not very good with bright light, it's why I always wear sunglasses, so I don't actually want very bright light. It's a careful balance of having enough lighting without it being dazzling.

S


----------



## OLD

Shed security .YouTube video ultimate handyman shed security .he uses unistrut thought you might be interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnx64xT ... PcaG_K5WHw


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve

The lights look really good. What are they and where did you get them?

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":r9rl1kd2 said:


> Steve
> 
> The lights look really good. What are they and where did you get them?
> 
> Terry.


I got them from Yesss Electrical. They were about 60 quid each IIRC. You don't get much for your money TBH. I forget the make, I'll have to go down and have a look in daylight. I still have the boxes.

The tubes are Phillips, 58W 6500K. 
S


----------



## yetloh

It looks like a huge and highly desirable space, Steve. I'm very envious.

Will you know when it's finished or can we expect many more years happily following this thread?

Jim


----------



## Steve Maskery

The electrician came today. The first thing that we found is that I'd stripped back the armoured cable too much, so we had to rip out the insulation that was to the left of the door, so we could pull it through another few inches.




Ray and I had finished that bit of PB to the left of the door and I continued with the bits between the windows.




This is the very last piece of plasterboard - yippee!




Ray is coming again on Thursday so I'm going to try to get the floor insulation for then. We can get one layer of flooring down (the excess OSB, or at least, most of it) and I can get my tablesaw in. It will be very useful in fitting the trim

But right now we have an operational ring main (we've tapped in to the cabin supply as a temporary measure) so we are no longer running everything off extension leads.


----------



## woodshavings

Steve Maskery":1n0ek672 said:


> .........and I can get my tablesaw in.....


Well done Steve - that's got to be a great motivator!!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
John


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":prmch731 said:


> Steve
> 
> The lights look really good. What are they and where did you get them?
> 
> Terry.



I've been meaning to reply to this for days, sorry, I kept forgetting.
They are NVC NWY258/HF Luminaire HF T8 2x58W, £40 each
Tubes Phillips 63219740 TLDSuper80 58W1500mm840, £2.24 each
Both prices plus VAT, but even so, not quite as pricey as I had remembered.

S


----------



## Graham Orm

Spectacular Steve.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Lots achieved today, folks.

Remember we were celebrating putting on the last piece of plasterboard? Well I had a call from my Sparks to say that if I wanted to use the 32A plug on my TS I would have to upgrade the cable. I couldn't get to my TS to see the motor plate and wasn't sure if I could change the plug to a 16A one. So yesterday I bought some 6mm cable.

The problem is that the access hole for the cable into was not very generous and it already has a lot of cable coming through it. We reckoned that the easiest way in was from the left, but the cavity is full of foam, so we couldn't just poke it through. So we cut a couple of access holes to furtle it through bit by bit. Then we made a couple of patches a bit bigger than the hole and cut round them, removing PB to make a rebate. The patches were then glued and screwed in and it all looks very neat. It will look perfect when it is painted.

Some pics:
















So that was a lot of faff to get not very much further, but one good thing was that we took the opportunity to replace the PB to the left of the door. The power socket had been installed off-centre and it offended my eye. It now looks right.

We had a few bits of PB left and it was in our way, so we used some of it to blank off the windows.


----------



## Steve Maskery

We then spent a while moving stuff about and clearing up, we needed to clear half the floor in one go.

We have some heavy-duty polythene for a DPC.
















We plan to stagger the joints on the layers of the floor components as well as we can, so we started with a piece of Jablite and then continued with half-width sheets all along the back wall











Then we started with a full sheet of OSB. This is supposed to be 18mm, but at least one sheet is 22mm at one end It certainly is not very consistent. We kept an expansion gap all round the edge
















So we have laid about 50% of the DPC, 40% of the insulation and about 30% of the base layer OSB.






We've also had a bit of good luck today. The delivery man had a couple of boards on his waggon. It looked very good. "What's this?", I asked. "CaberShield", says he, "It's very good stuff".

So I rang up about it. It is a bit more expensive than the ordinary stuff, but it has a bonded polyurethane, non-slip, pre-finished surface. Given that painting the floor would probably cost a hundred or so, the price difference is not so great. So my plan is to use it. At 22mm, it means that I shall have a high-quality 40mm floor on top of the polystyrene, which won't need maintenance. I hope.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":2ese3xlb said:


> Wizard9999":2ese3xlb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> The lights look really good. What are they and where did you get them?
> 
> Terry.
> 
> 
> 
> I got them from Yesss Electrical. They were about 60 quid each IIRC. You don't get much for your money TBH. I forget the make, I'll have to go down and have a look in daylight. I still have the boxes.
> 
> The tubes are Phillips, 58W 6500K.
> S
Click to expand...


Thanks Steve, appreciate you taking the time to pull out the info and post.

Terry.


----------



## StevieB

Coming along nicely Steve! Have to admit the before and after shot posted by Greyorm does make the new structure look huge, especially when considering the view of the houses behind. Yet it looks even larger on the inside - I reckon you should paint it Blue and call it the TARDIS 

Steve


----------



## Brentingby

I agree with StevieB but what an improvement!


----------



## fiacha

I'd be happy to live in that workshop ! 

I'd rather have a nice clean looking building at the end of my garden, than a direct view to the neighbours house.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Wizard9999":2gv0jhrh said:


> Steve Maskery":2gv0jhrh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wizard9999":2gv0jhrh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> The lights look really good. What are they and where did you get them?
> 
> Terry.
> 
> 
> 
> I got them from Yesss Electrical. They were about 60 quid each IIRC. You don't get much for your money TBH. I forget the make, I'll have to go down and have a look in daylight. I still have the boxes.
> 
> The tubes are Phillips, 58W 6500K.
> S
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks Steve, appreciate you taking the time to pull out the info and post.
> 
> Terry.
Click to expand...


Terry, before you go ordering any lights can we have some dialogue cos I need a couple myself and we can bung them on the same order for the volume discount. I know yours are a way off yet but I'll forget so this is an aide memoir. Ta...me


----------



## Steve Maskery

We had hoped to finish the floor base today, but it was slower than we had hoped. We spent a geological age clearing up and moving stuff to the back so we could do the front.











Although I have bought floor-grade EPS, it is rather more squidgy than I had imagined. But I also have 4 sheets of Recticel (which I always think sounds like a medical preparation) which is considerably more resistant to compression. So we laid them out in the areas where I plan to use my heaviest machines.











One of the things we discovered about the boards we laid yesterday is that they do not automatically lie flush. Although they have been stored flat they are not necessarily totally 100% two-dimensional and the thickness varies. Quite a lot. They are supposed to be 18mm, but I don't think any one of them is less than 20mm. It causes problems and yesterday's has blips of up to a couple of mm. So today we pulled the boards together with the odd cleat. It was a good ruse. You can see what we were up against.











We have some cables to get to the middle of the floor, so we cut a rebate in the insulation to take them.











So we have got this far and at least some of it is even.


----------



## hammer n nails

Wow fantastic the build is progressing well have watched from day 1 I hate to think of the cost though but building it yourself must have saved a bomb very well done will continue to watch with envy


----------



## RogerS

Do you not have to derate cables if you are passing them through foam insulation? IE you need fatter cables.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":1z6hib48 said:


> Although I have bought floor-grade EPS, it is rather more squidgy than I had imagined. But I also have 4 sheets of Recticel (which I always think sounds like a medical preparation) which is considerably more resistant to compression.



Steve

As my concrete bases is not really flat enough to use as a floor directly I'm also thinking of using EPS under some form of flooring (like the sound of that CaberShield). I was looking a it in Wickes and the guy there told me I would need timber battens for the boards to res on as the EPS would not full support it. When I saw yo laying the boards I thought oh well, wha does the uy at Wickes know, but maybe he has a point, especially as you say with heavy machinery sitting on it.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well a builder I trust says it is. It's called a floating floor. The Jablite site shows it being used in this way.
It will have 40mm board on top of it.


----------



## kostello

Extruded polystyrene has a greater load bearing capacity than expanded......


----------



## defsdoor

I bet you'll be able to keep that place warm with a 40w light bulb.


And when it gets really cold - you might have to turn it on.


Looks brilliant.

I might get chance to start on mine (far smaller and modest) next year and have loads of ideas and inspiration from this.


----------



## Danny

Looking good Steve, I've just finished reading reading this thread from page 1. I'm currently building a 2.4 x 4.8m workshop and your's already makes mine look too small and I haven't even got the walls up yet! :lol: 



RogerS":2qr2m4x2 said:


> Do you not have to derate cables if you are passing them through foam insulation? IE you need fatter cables.


Technically yes, the de-rating factor for a cable passing through insulation for 500mm or more is 0.5, which is half the capacity.


----------



## RogerS

Danny":331n0kmq said:


> ...
> 
> 
> RogerS":331n0kmq said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you not have to derate cables if you are passing them through foam insulation? IE you need fatter cables.
> 
> 
> 
> Technically yes, the de-rating factor for a cable passing through insulation for 500mm or more is 0.5, which is half the capacity.
Click to expand...


I wonder how that fits vis a vis insurance companies and, say, any claim for a fire ?


----------



## nanscombe

defsdoor":18gbeoex said:


> I bet you'll be able to keep that place warm with a 40w light bulb.
> ...



If you can still buy one that is. :lol:


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":xyfnt5dj said:


> Well a builder I trust says it is. It's called a floating floor. The Jablite site shows it being used in this way.


Steve

Don't disagree with any of the above, I was only reflecting on the fact you said it had more give in it than you expected and that you therefore substituted a different insulation where your heavy machines will sit.

Terry.


----------



## monkeybiter

When I had my extention built I made the mistake of not interfering/researching enough and the floor was laid just on the Celotex insulation. It now has some movement in the areas of heavy footfall. 
At some time in the future I will be retrofitting timbers to support the floor.


----------



## nanscombe

When laying a floor like that couldn't you treat it like installing a floor in your loft where you would have a network of timbers (joists), to support the weight of the actual floor, infilled with insulation.


----------



## Doug B

Steve Maskery":1dbnzly0 said:


> Well a builder I trust says it is. It's called a floating floor. The Jablite site shows it being used in this way.
> It will have 40mm board on top of it.



I've seen it used many times in houses but how it will stand up to use in a workshop is another thing, there's usually some give when installing heavy items such as larder unit on it.


----------



## Graham Orm

I laid 3x2 and filled the voids with insulation then put my ply down onto the 3x2


----------



## Steve Maskery

Now you are getting me worried, chaps.
S


----------



## Graham Orm

Can you test a section before going further Steve?

If you're putting two layers down and you cross the joints of the first with the second, then pepper it with screws to tie them together it will be fine I reckon.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes we are criss-crossing the two layers, but glueing rather than screwing, as the top layer is the finished floor.


----------



## Graham Orm

I should think It will be fine as long as you don't need to lift it for anything.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":jjhhxgdr said:


> Yes we are criss-crossing the two layers, but glueing rather than screwing, as the top layer is the finished floor.



If you're glueing it all together it would be a right pain to rip it all up if you find that it can't take the weight of your heaviest bit of kit. I'm sure that they'll be a complicated formula or two to work out the concentration of the load on to the relatively small points touching the floor and then how it spreads through a floor of your thickness and construction. But it brings me out in a sweat just thinking about it, so I would have thought doing a test now before you finish would be a good idea.

Terry.


----------



## nanscombe

If you were that worried I would have thought that sitting your heavy equipment on a couple of wooden planks would be enough to spread the load adequately.

I once wondered about the weight (mass) of a cabinet in my bedroom then I thought about it and realised that when I'm walking about I'm putting a load of 130ish lbs on the area of my feet.


----------



## Graham Orm

Thinking about it, with 2 layers of ply glued together, (I'm assuming 36mm total), you could probably park a car on it and it wouldn't cause a problem. Dont panic Captain Mainwaring, all will be well.


----------



## Water-Mark

I started reading this at 7 30pm and have only just finished.

Very impressive.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Get a life! 
 
Glad you are enjoying it. 
S


----------



## turnamere

The finished floor will spread the load over a considerable area, a few years ago we used 3 4'x4' pieces of 1" ply, one under each wheel, to land a Merlin Helicopter on a soft field, that's 14,600Kg and only 3 contact points :mrgreen: 

Great work though Steve, truly envious of your workspace =D>


----------



## TrimTheKing

When we have to put large UPS's into comms rooms in work, they strengthen the floor using steel box section frames under the specific area. Could you do the same with some 4*2 or whatever depth the insulation is, under just the sections where you know the machines will be? That way you know the floor is strong, and you can still infill between the frames with the insulation to keep the benefit.

Or is it too late now?

Cheers
Mark


----------



## Eric The Viking

turnamere":3k4blv99 said:


> The finished floor will spread the load over a considerable area, a few years ago we used 3 4'x4' pieces of 1" ply, one under each wheel, to land a Merlin Helicopter on a soft field, that's 14,600Kg and only 3 contact points :mrgreen:



I have a wonderful mental picture of that: 

Helicopter hovers around 1ft off the ground; two blokes in overalls jump out, try to grab hold of said ply from bloke in cabin before the downdraft sends it into the next county, lots of fidgeting about until all three are in the right place, then a soggy splat.

I have a sad life...


----------



## Owl

Eric The Viking":v16ukc5u said:


> I have a sad life...




I would say you have a good imagination Eric =D>


----------



## dickm

Owl":2lehxkhk said:


> I would say you have a good imagination Eric =D>


Even more off topic, but............
Years ago, some bigwig was visiting my place of work by helicopter. They put down on the very soggy turf outside the main building. Chopper surprisingly stayed more or less on surface, but bigwig sank up to ankles. Can't remember who exactly he was, but do remember he was some sort of politician so well deserved it.


----------



## RogerS

Eric Pickles?


----------



## StevieB

He said ankles, not neck


----------



## HarryJ

turnamere":e73rjm0e said:


> ...we used 3 4'x4' pieces of 1" ply, one under each wheel, to land a Merlin Helicopter on a soft field, that's 14,600Kg and only 3 contact points...



Making the assumption that the helicopters mass is evenly spread over the three wheels when landed (which it probably isn't!), that leads to a pressure of abotut 4700 KiloPascals (KPa) through each point of contact with the ground... 

-To put that into perspective, the _average_ person when walking will probably produce a pressure of about 49KPa (whenever they are on one foot)

So take from that what you like, its some pretty useless information but I was curious... (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

I _think_ that makes me feel reassured...


----------



## Chrispy

I can see you have a lot of head room but can't see how fitting rotas to the table saw is going to help! Or have I missed something?


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

HarryJ":3p9vwanr said:


> turnamere":3p9vwanr said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...we used 3 4'x4' pieces of 1" ply, one under each wheel, to land a Merlin Helicopter on a soft field, that's 14,600Kg and only 3 contact points...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Making the assumption that the helicopters mass is evenly spread over the three wheels when landed (which it probably isn't!), that leads to a pressure of abotut 4700 KiloPascals (KPa) through each point of contact with the ground...
> 
> -To put that into perspective, the _average_ person when walking will probably produce a pressure of about 49KPa (whenever they are on one foot)
> 
> So take from that what you like, its some pretty useless information but I was curious... (hammer)
Click to expand...


Errr no its not, equal loading (14,600 kg/3) is 4,866 kg per wheel, which is 48 KPa assuming each piece of ply is one sq metre.

Steve, What is the KPa rating of the insulation you are putting in?


----------



## Steve Maskery

mindthatwhatouch":87gbgavr said:


> Steve, What is the KPa rating of the insulation you are putting in?



Erm.... I don't know  

But it's too late now anyway. The floor is done, at least the first layer.

Then Ray sanded the filler on the ceiling 







whilst I started work on the door. I'd bought the door months ago but never got round to hanging it. And then I couldn't because we'd stored all that timber in the way. We've moved it out of the way now.






Yesterday at the Community Workshop I made myself a hinge jig. I'm so out of practice I made the clamping strip too short, but it still works, I just have fewer clamping options.





















Newbie_Neil has very kindly given me a couple of dead locks, and I've also started marking out for them, but by the middle of the afternoon we were both frozen to the marrow.

We are a bit stuck now, really. We need to paint but it is too cold. I want to paint before the rest of the floor goes on. I'm hoping we can get my TS and BS set up. That will make it much easier to finish off the front.


----------



## Halo Jones

Great progress Steve!

I think I am missing something. Can't you get the doors and windows in. Then with the help of a heater you can paint to your heart's content?

H.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":yubnh1bb said:


> mindthatwhatouch":yubnh1bb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, What is the KPa rating of the insulation you are putting in?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Erm.... I don't know
> 
> But it's too late now anyway. The floor is done, at least the first layer.
Click to expand...


Steve

It's rated at 0.07N/mm2, which I think is 70kpa.

Presumably if a huge helicopter spreading its weight over 3m2 gives only 48kpa, a 300kg table saw over c.2.8m2 will be comfortably supported (assume the 2.4m x 1.2m sheet distributes the load broadly evenly).

Terry.


----------



## Graham Orm

Nice hinges Steve. I used a hinge jig for a while thinking it would be quicker than chisels. It was if I had more than 3 doors to do in one go. My hinge fitting has evolved into mark round the hinge with a sharp Stanley knife and freehand the rebate with a Bosch palm router. Tidy the corners with the knife. Quick and easy as pie.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Halo:
Well I want to make the big doors and the window frames myself, so I have to get some machinery in there first. But yes, when it is fully weathertight we can try to raise the temperature a bit. Next Tuesday looks mild, but that's when I do my volutary work. I don't like letting people down. The following Saturday also looks good, but that is the Saturday before Christmas. Mind you, I'd rather be painting than shopping on the Saturday before Christmas.

Wiz:
OK, thank you. We'll just have to see.

Graham:
I think if you do it a lot then you can get quite quick at it. But I've not hung a door for years, maybe a decade. I am out of practice at everything and I need all the help I can get. I'm terrified of cocking it up, TBH. 
Whilst I love my little fessy router, I would have preferred to use my trusty old MOF96E I prefer the holding position for a job like this, but that was one of the things that grew legs.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

70 KPa for domestic Expanded polystyrene
That Recticel is more around the 140 mark. The floor will be fine, I would be tempted with some hardwood planks below anything really heavy to stop it wearing into the OSB, and it gives a nice strong fixing point if required.


----------



## HarryJ

mindthatwhatouch":1wwmpzml said:


> Errr no its not, equal loading (14,600 kg/3) is 4,866 kg per wheel, which is 48 KPa assuming each piece of ply is one sq metre.




Oh... I used 4" not 4', 
At the time, I thought 4" was a little daft!


----------



## Steve Maskery

What a very mixed day. Elation and despair in pretty much equal measure.

I'd already made a start when Ray came this morning. But I stopped work on the door because Ray wanted to get the tablesaw set up. It was too cold to paint, anyway.

So we moved some stuff out of the overstuffed log cabin so we could get the TS out. It was in a very sorry state.











We also had a problem. It is too wide to get down the side of the cabin and anyway, the wheels were the wrong way round for moving in that direction. They are wheels, not castors.

So we took the outfeed table off 






and with a lot of grunting - even Ray struggled - we jacked it up block by block, levered it onto my mate Stuart's bogey and got it down to the workshop. It was a lot of pushing and shoving and shushing. Sort of a cross between "Right said Fred" and "The day McGinty's donkey won the half-mile race". But we got it there.











I'm not posing for the camera, I really did have a silly grin on my face. Tempered by the sadness of seeing it in such a sorry state.

We then did the same with the bandsaw






and my bench.






This was really sad. As well as the vice being jammed with rust, it has a lot of woodworm. It always had a bit, but they have really taken hold. I think the sooner I make a replacement the better. I have stripped down a vice before and restored it, so I don't think this is beyond redemption.

Finally we brought down the planer/thicknesser. The beds were fine as they are aluminium, but the cutterblock, knives and other steely bits are rusty. Also I can't find the fence for it. I don't remember thinking that it had been stolen with the rest of the gear, but there are not many places it can be now and I can't find it so I must assume it has gone. Goodness knows what I'm going to do. It will cost a fortune to get one made, I should think. And I bet the pippers got tuppence for it as scrap. I typed pippers myself, saved the server from the trouble of translating.

On the upside I've found a couple of things I thought had been stolen. A little corner chisel that you hit with a hammer when fitting hinges (I wish I'd found it yesterday) and, much more exciting, an engineer's vice. This was my dad's and I love it. I'm not sure what state it is in, but it is wrapped in bubblewrap and cling film, so I hope it has survived well. Really pleased about that.

So with the big machines in, Ray wired up for the TS, the floor sockets and the light switch proper (until now the lights had just been plugged in to the ring main) whilst I carried on chopping out for the deadlocks. It's taking me a long time but they are right and neat enough. A pro chippy might turn up his nose, but they are not bad. I've definitely seen worse, Usually cut by me  Dr Bob would have a fdicky-fit if he saw the speed at which I work. I still have to cut the keyholes.

We fired up the TS and it started straight away. Great, except that it sounded like a bag of nails, rather than its usual purrrrrr.

We'd done all that by about 2.30, so we finished one of the outside walls with membrane. We'd stopped work on the outside as I'd managed to cock up on the regs front and it has taken a while to find a solution. We do have one, but it will have to wait until the weather warms up again, now, before we can implement it. We just want to protect the OSB from the worst of the winter. Yes, I am aware of the UV tolerance time. Tough.






So at close of play it looks like this:






I'm not leaving anything that can easily grow legs down there, so there is a lot of carrying stuff up to the house every night, which is a pain but necessary, unfortunately, but it really is beginning to look a lot like a workshop. I just hope I can restore my machines to their former glory.

PS There is one nice little extra benefit from all this. I now have some space in the cabin to put all the clobber that has been littering the floor of my house since I moved in. I don't have so much excuse for living in domestic squalour!


----------



## Brentingby

Despite the rust and worms it's beginning to really look like a shop, Steve. Congratulations!


----------



## Noel

Looking good Steve, progress is certainly progressing...

Ref TS, 10 or 15 mins with a ROS or even a Palm Sander, bit of light machine oil (to suspend the iron/rust particles) followed by white spirit/thinners etc and a good coat of buffed down wax will see the TS nice and shiny again.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve

Big day! Love the picture at the end, the TS looks a bit lost in that monster of a workshop you've built (with just a little help from Ray of course). Dare I say it looks so big it could be mistaken for a workshop on the other side of the pond.

On the external wall treatment, I'm sure anyone who is looking to build something bigger than 15m2 less than a metre from a boundary would be interested to hear the solution you've hammered out with the building control people.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":394qdp20 said:


> Dare I say it looks so big it could be mistaken for a workshop on the other side of the pond.



That's kinda _(sic) _the idea! 



Wizard9999":394qdp20 said:


> On the external wall treatment, I'm sure anyone who is looking to build something bigger than 15m2 less than a metre from a boundary would be interested to hear the solution you've hammered out with the building control people.
> 
> Terry.



I will, Terry, I will, but not now. I'll tell all when we actually do it.

S


----------



## fiacha

The lighting in that last image is fantastic. You mightn't need half the lights once it's been painted !


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well talking of painting...
How are you fixed for a painting party on the Saturday before Christmas? Surely you have nothing better to do? 
The forecast is mild and I'd really like to get a couple of coats on ere long.
Just hop over. Bacon sarnies for lunch?
S


----------



## Paul Chapman

Well done Steve. You and your helpers have achieved a lot and it's all looking very good.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Woodmonkey

Wow that looks great, really starting to look like a workshop. Have you planned which machines are going where, would be interested to see the thought process behind this...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thought processes? With what's left of my brain? I'm flattered!
TS in roughly the middle, likewise the PT. Bandsaw towards the centre of a wall. That's about as far as I've gone.

I have taken the precaution of leaving one sheet of OSB loose, the one with the electric supply. If, after trying out the current layout, I decide I want to move the supply, I can lift out the OSB and re-site the power to within a foot or two. I can do that until such time that I lay the top layer of flooring.

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've been working on my own today and have hung the door. It's taken forever.

I spent ages trying to get the frame right, because, although it is a gazillion years since I've done this job, I do remember how important it is that the frame must be square and true if the door is going to work properly. The opening in the framework is not as square and true and straight as it should be, unfortunately, but there is enough clearance to install the door frame and square it up with shims, without have to plane away any wood. So that is what I did. The frame is hard up against the hinge side and packed out on the leading edge jamb.

I was very careful (for which read slow and inefficient, Dr. Bob!  ) to get it all plumb, and I checked with a spirit level and my Square of Thales:







The hinge jamb was pretty straight and true, but the lock jamb was not quite perfectly straight, but I could force it straight by adjusting the tightness of the screws which hold it to the frame.

I had to chop the hinge recesses by hand :shock: because the rebate precluded the use of my hinge jig, and I appear to have lost one packet of the nice SS screws that came with the hinges. They'll turn up, I guess, sooner or later.

But eventually I had it looking like this:











It's pretty good for clearance all round, the only issue is that the leading jamb catches very slightly on the bottom cill. For some reason the cill is not perfectly horizontal. It's only a mm or two, but it catches, so when I drill for the keyholes I'll also trim the bottom edge a bit.

The other dodgy bit is that the door does not sit true in the frame. The top leading corner touches before the bottom leading corner does, by about 8mm. I couldn't understand it. 8mm! I had been so careful, what could it be? It finally dawned on me. The door itself is twisted I'm sure it will be fine when the locks and catches are on. I still need to chop out the frame for the striking plates, and the door and frame for the catch, which I must remember to go and buy when I go out tonight. Screwfix are open until 8pm, I think.

Over the weekend I've also had a bit of a go at the rust on the saws. I bought some emery paper and set to. Although the TS top is still stained, at least the rust is all gone. I could probably keep going and remove the staining as well, but I don't want to compromise the flatness of the table top. Also, it doesn't sound like a bag of nails anymore. I guess whatever was rasping has be worn off. It sounds good again.






The bandsaw was not so bad and has come up smashing






And the last bit of good news is that I have found the fence to my P/T. It was on the floor in the cabin behind something else. Now I just need to find my Japanese chisels. I'm pretty sure I have them because I remember taking them to the Community Workshop, but I just can't lay my hands on them. I wonder where I've put them?


----------



## RobinBHM

I can see some machines, I can see a workbench, a wooden floor, a door............yup its a wood working shop  

Is there going to be a 'building a workshop essentials' coming out in 2015!

Nice work on the door, a toasty warm workshop is not far away!

Regarding the frame and door fitting -rather than make the frame plumb, the easy way is to get the frame in place, wedge it up, screw on the door with a couple of screws so its swinging in the frame and then adjust the frame to suit the door fit. 

Cheers Robin


----------



## Myfordman

Something a bit awry with the door braces Steve?

eg http://www.roundwood.com/photovwr.aspx? ... =300&h=300


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes indeed, Bob. I would have preferred it that way, but the doors are supplied like that so that they can be hung either hand. I did consider trying to take one brace off and reverse it, but it doesn't want to come out, so I think I have to settle for a half-braced door. It is only a temporary one, I bought it rather than made it. I'll get round to replacing it sometime in the next 30 years.

Maybe.

S

S


----------



## Myfordman

:lol: Ah! I thought the door was made by you own fair hand! you are indeed excused!


----------



## Doug B

Just screw a sheet of steel to the back Steve, it will brace the door & also rip the teeth off jigsaw blades when anyone tries to saw around the lock.

Coming together nicely.


----------



## Noggsy

Looking great Steve and I'm glad the man door is on. When are you fitting the door for women?


----------



## monkeybiter

Noggsy":1bcvzqxu said:


> Looking great Steve and I'm glad the man door is on. When are you fitting the door for women?



maybe try a bifold?


----------



## orchard

Steve Maskery":1t48x4nc said:


> ... Now I just need to find my Japanese chisels. I'm pretty sure I have them because I remember taking them to the Community Workshop, but I just can't lay my hands on them. I wonder where I've put them?




They're behind you !!!


Good workshop Steve, well done, as has been said, with your history where you live, security is a must -- and don't post photo's online


----------



## Steve Maskery

I lost my last workshop because of a $%&*(&T woman. I'm not going to let that happen again. This is most definitely a man door.


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":2fjyewok said:


> I lost my last workshop because of a $%&*(&T woman. I'm not going to let that happen again. This is most definitely a man door.



Some women should be boiled in their own P155 :twisted:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well it's been mild and miserable today, but that meant that it has been warm enough to paint - just.

But the day had started with a phone call to PayPal about a dispute. I had expected it to be a tortuous series of hoops through which I would have to jump, but actually it was fairly straightforward, an 0800 number, a few relevant automated questions, voice recognition software that worked and a human being who picked up the phone almost immediately afterwards. This call was not about money, well, not much, it was about my reputation being impugned and PayPal's automatically finding in favour of the other party without any reference to me. The call handler admitted that it had not been handled properly and would probably have been thrown out if it had. Not a lot of use now, of course, and he offered me a sop, but that is not the point. Still, it was nice to hear that my "squeaky clean", as he put it, account was still intact. My only harrumph is that the sop is coming out of PayPal's account and not the other party's. He's got away with it, basically.

Anyway on to the build.

First Ray had some filling to tart up and the distribution board to cover up again, whilst I did some tidying up, moving a couple of hundred spare roof tiles into the cabin, but after an early lunch we were ready to start painting.

Of course, having put some of the big stuff in, it's more difficult to move the scaffolding about, but we managed. Ray brought his top rails today, in view of my "sensitivities to being on the scaffolding", as he so tactfully put it. He means I'm a wuss. True, so true, but then he didn't spend most of last year on crutches. So we installed them and hung the ladders on them. Much happier bunny.






I've bought some paint which is specially formulated for new dry lining. It's expensive but I do rate Johnstone's paint, actually. Two 10l tubs should seal the walls and ceiling, especially as we thinned it 10%. Here's Ray doing Rodin impressions:






So we set to, Ray starting at one end and me at the other. The astonishing thing is that for the first time on this project I was able to keep up with Ray.











It's not very often that Ray puffins up and cusses, but today he decided to see what the floor would look like if we painted it white...






We didn't quite get the whole ceiling done, but tomorrow we should get it finished with two full coats. 











I'm going to do the ceiling white and the walls magnolia. It's a little less harsh on the camera, I think.

I have 42 sheets of flooring arriving tomorrow, as well.


----------



## n0legs

Fairplay Steve it's coming along.
Good work mate.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'd asked for the flooring any time after 10am. At 8.45 the phone went. "I'll be with you in five minutes." Fortunately I was up and about and functioning reasonably well, so it wasn't a problem. He dropped them on the drive and went off. Ray arrived.

Well we figured that it would be best to finish the first coat on the ceiling first, then we could move the scaffolding back to make it easy to carry in the flooring. So that's what we did.

And then we carried 10 or so sheets down from the drive to the workshop. And then... Disaster! These boards were from two different batches and not at all the same colour. Now colour is not part of the specification, so I can't claim that they were faulty, but I certainly don't want a two-tone floor. So I rang up and they were fine about it. They would replace the whole order out of a new pack.

We carried the boards back up the drive and carried on painting.

Middle of the afternoon and the phone rings. The driver is at the front door with a replacement order. So he pics up the mixed batch, hoists them into the air..... and stops. His machine has packed up with 42 sheets of chipboard flooring dangling 10 ft up in the air over the road. It took him a while to fix it, long enough for me to find my camera and then some.






So then we had to get them all down to the workshop before it got dark, which we managed, just, but my back is now knackered. Of course, Ray practically runs with the boards.

So that little episode set up back a bit, we've done the ceiling all bar the same area that was left Barbie pink yesterday. We would have done it all if everything had gone according to plan.

I can't think of another way to make a white ceiling look exciting, other than to tell you that after two coats it does look good.

Ray is back again tomorrow, but has told me that for the rest of the painting I'm on my own. He wants a break, and who can blame him?

So if you find yourself fed up with turkey and the kids and want some man-play.....


----------



## Graham Orm

Right said Fred springs to mind Steve lol


----------



## nanscombe

You don't mean that he's too sexy for his shirt surely? :shock: :lol:


----------



## Graham Orm

Hardly Nigel!! The original.....I'm not singing at this time of night, you'll just have to Google it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Erm, do I take it that my popular culture education is a tad inadequate?
?????
S


----------



## nanscombe

Grayorm":cot2m5u9 said:


> Hardly Nigel!! The original.....I'm not singing at this time of night, you'll just have to Google it.



Ah, the Bernard Cribbins song rather than the pop group of the same name :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

nanscombe":33fnj98l said:


> Ah, the Bernard Cribbins song



OIC. Familiar with the song, never seen the video.



nanscombe":33fnj98l said:


> rather than the pop group of the same name :lol:



Ditto. Reminds me of my youth...

S


----------



## Eric The Viking

"That there door is gonna have to go..."


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Wish I was closer, like the idea of getting fed up with turkey and popping round for man play. 
Oh no wait that doesn't sound right... especially after the Right Said Fred reference....

Anyway I have enough to be getting on with...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Short day today, but quite productive.

We finished painting the ceiling even though the temperature was a degree or so lower than recommended. There are a few places where we didn't sand the filler as much as we should have, and it most certainly would not do for a dining room or lounge, but this is a workshop and it is absolutely fine for that. we have got too much paint on the Unistrut, but the painting itself is not patchy. It's fine.

It was colder and brighter today and the wind got up. My nicely-fitting man-door started to blow about quite severely, so I've screwed a piece of wood over it and wedged it shut. Sorry, I didn't tke a photo and it is dark now.

Talking of the man-door, I had another go at that top brace, and if I got a bit more forceful with it, I found that it did start to budge It was just stapled in place, but levering it out pulled the staples right through the cladding slats. Still, at least it is actually doing something now, and by the time I have finished it will be invisible anyway. Sorry, no picture of that either. I'll try to do better tomorrow.

Actually I'm inclined to replace them both. They are ex-1", which is thinner than the depth from inside of frame to the cladding. I want to fill the door with insulation and apply an internal skin. Not sure what yet. But that would be a lot easier if the frame and the bracing were all in the same plane.

Now I know that I've not said much about the outside, because I've had to put right a lousy decision I made at the outset. I've fallen foul of fire regs, and whilst I do have a fix, it needs to be done when the temp is consistently above 10 degrees C, so realistically that means the spring. So the shiplap has to come off the sides and back, but the membrane and laths can stay, so we have finished off the membrane so that the OSB is better protected for the winter.

Hey, I have a picture! 







We've not put up any more laths, because they are on 2ft centres over the studs, and the cladding we shall use is 2.4m rather than 8ft (that old chestnut again), so we may have to jiggle the laths. No point in putting them up only to have to move them again.

So Ray is off for Christmas now, but I'm hoping that my mate Akram is coming some time this weekend. Saturday is cold but Sunday is forecast to be mild again, so we should get at least some of the walls done.

I also want to set my P/T up again. I've bought some wood for the window frames and I've been given a nice piece of mahogany to use as the cill for the double doors. I can make it match the cill on the man-door. The P/T is filthy, and the exposed steel parts are a bit rusty, but I've already cleaned up the cutter block, and the knives themselves just wiped clean and seem quite sharp still. I'm pleasantly surprised. I just wish I'd cleaned them _in situ_ rather than taking them out. I've got to set them up again!

The man-door fitted beautifully a couple of days ago, but now it is swollen and rather tight. Not tight enough to stop it flying about in the wind, obviously, but it is not the same as it was. I plan to fit the hardware tomorrow so that it can't blow about.

As we finished early today, I went to the paint shop for some paint for the doors. They did not have the base for the colour I wanted. It turns out that the reason for this is that the code for the product is wrong in the database, so that any store that tries to order it gets told it is out of stock. It is only because the store attendant searched for alternatives that he found that someone had transposed two letters of the code in his entry on the computer!

A bit more tomorrow, all being well.


----------



## marcros

What is the fire reg fix, Steve?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Glassroc and Snowcem, in a word.
Or three.
I'll tell you more when we do it.
S


----------



## Flynnwood

Steve Maskery":8y6a93nr said:


> SNIP...
> 
> I went to the paint shop for some paint for the doors. They did not have the base for the colour I wanted. It turns out that the reason for this is that the code for the product is wrong in the database, so that any store that tries to order it gets told it is out of stock. It is only because the store attendant searched for alternatives that he found that someone had transposed two letters of the code in his entry on the computer!



I can help on that and the codes. What colour is it you want ... and in what finish?

Also oil or water based ...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you, Flynn, that is most kind of you.

The embarrassing bit of this is that I Can't Remember. I didn't write it down and I got to the store expecting to look at the catalogue and recognise it. That didn't happen.

But I have Dove Grey for the cladding and I'm looking at something like Horizon 18C35 or Delph 20C37 for the doors. The trouble is that neither of those names rings a bell with what I thought I had decided upon!

My brain just doesn't work like it used to.



S

PS I forgot to mention that this is from Johnstone's Quick Dry Opaque Wood Finish range.


----------



## Brentingby

Looking great, Steve.


----------



## Flynnwood

The pre mixed colours can be found on page 28 and 29 here:

http://tinyurl.com/ogo4lsh

According to my contact, 18 C 35 would be a L base, and 20 C 37 would be a Z base.

Of course, that doesn't mean much if you can't remember which tint you had decided on :lol:

Anyways, the workshop looks great - well done.

=D>


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## Steve Maskery

Flynnwood
Thank you very much - that is very helpful, though not quite in the way you intended!
When I went in yesterday I coudn't understand why I didn't recognise the colour I had decided upon. I spent some time looking at the colour book and ended up "deciding" all over again, but I knew it wasn't the same as before.

The brochure you link to is the one I used originally and the one they had in the store was different.

The one I originally chose was Stormy Blue (p29)

WHat do you reckon?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Brentingby
Yes, those are they, as best as I can tell on a screen. But on the screen I definitely prefer the Larkspur to the Corvette.

Too much choice!

S


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## Wizard9999

Looks like things are coming on in leaps and bounds Steve. If you are choisng colours you must be getting close to the finishing line!

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I was hoping to get some painting done today, as the forecast was for it to be a bit milder, but by 1pm it ws still only 9 deg and it felt colder than that. My fingers are still numb. The magic number is 10 deg so I've decided to call it a day.

However, all that does not mean there has been no progress.

You will remember that I had hung the man-door. I'd had to bar it closed to stop it banging about in the wind, so I needed to fit the catch and locks to finish the job.

I actually started yesterday. I'd chopped the door for the locks some time ago, but I'd not got the catch then, so that was the first thing to fit.





The locks were not quite deep enough, so I had to lever them out and chop a bit more, knackering up my nice clean, sharp recess edges in the process. Not a happy bunny about that.

Then I could fit the furniture. I'd found some really nice escutcheons from a place called MoreHandles so I bought them and some nice handles and a coat hook. I'd measured very carefully to make sure that the locks would be equidistant from the handle. But of course, I'd forgotten to allow for the fact that the spindle is not central in the handle plate. So the lower one looks closer to the handle than it should be, That is really going to bug me, but it's too late now. I do this job so rarely that it's like being a total beginner again. Use it or lose it, eh?

I also cocked up a bit fitting the escutcheons. I marked the holes for the screws very carefully, dead on a vertical line. I even popped them to get them right. Piloted them properly. Then put in the screws. So why does it look wonky? The screw hole in the escutcheon plate itself is not central. Plus I had to get my grinder out to shorten the screws a tad as they were bottoming out on the body of the lock before seating properly in the escutcheon. The screw thread is very fine and I suspect that I have stripped the thread in the wood. Bummer. The best-laid plans of mice and men, and all that, eh?

Today I have chopped the corresponding mortices in the door frame and installed the hardware for the locks. It all fits very nicely. I do have to push the bottom in with my knee to do the lower lock, but that is because of the wind in the door. With any luck it will gradually pull itself back in.

I'm not sure why but the bottom corner doesn't catch at all now. I haven't trimmed it. 

So now it looks like this


----------



## sammo

Steve, been following this from the beginning - and have to say this is a wonderful build story - not just the physical build but how the tone of your posts have become so much more optimistic - set backs (which are almost inevitable) don't seem to get you down as much as they did. To use a over used phrase from reality TV - what a journey you have been on.

WELL DONE...........

Sammo


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## Graham Orm

Looks good Steve. You really do need to get something on that door asap. (Sorry don't mean to tell you how to suck eggs).


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## Steve Maskery

Yes, I know Graham. You are right. 
I do have some wood preserver treatment stuff and would have done that today if I'd not got so cold. I plan to get my paint tomorrow, so it's not going to stay like that for very long.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I forgot to mention.

The door frame is grooved to take a draught-proof strip. It is like a tadpole in cross-section, a tadpole with a barbed tail.

I installed this strip, but it totally prevented me closing the door, even by forcing it. So I've had to pull it out.

I've come to the conclusion that it is simply too big. The round part is 8 or 10mm (I've not measured it) but it looks very large. I think that 5 or 6mm would be better. But this strip was supplied with the door frame, so I would expect it to be right. I'll see how I go on without it, but I might have to find a smaller replacement.

S


----------



## geordie

Doors with draft strip tend to be a bit more gappy than yours Steve you could try putting a bigger leading edge on the door.
Your doing a awsome job of the workshop I am more than a bit jealous

Regards Geordie


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## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":326bmfoe said:


> I forgot to mention.
> 
> The door frame is grooved to take a draught-proof strip. It is like a tadpole in cross-section, a tadpole with a barbed tail.
> 
> I installed this strip, but it totally prevented me closing the door, even by forcing it. So I've had to pull it out.
> 
> I've come to the conclusion that it is simply too big. The round part is 8 or 10mm (I've not measured it) but it looks very large. I think that 5 or 6mm would be better. But this strip was supplied with the door frame, so I would expect it to be right. I'll see how I go on without it, but I might have to find a smaller replacement.
> 
> S



That's frustrating Steve. I recently fitted a nice oak inner door to our porch and deliberately left it 'gappy' so that it would take draft excluder. It works perfectly with a snug fit and no drafts. 
How about taking the door off and running the router round the face just 1/2" in from the edge to take off 1 or 2 mm to accommodate the excluder that is designed for the job?


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## Steve Maskery

That's a good idea Graham, I shall consider that.

I did go out today and looked for some smaller stuff. The bloke in the place where I bought the door said, "The seals that come with them are pretty rubbish. Not all of them have any at all, you must have got a lucky one. We recommend people fit this." He showed me some that was a completely different profile, more like a Z. It seemed expensive to me, but looking online it seems to be about the norm. I can get much cheaper foam stuff, but IIRC, the foam stuff is not as good. I'll have a think.

Anyway, today started badly. I woke up feeling lousy, at about 6am. Instead of getting up and getting on with it all, I went back to sleep. Next thing I knew it was 11.15! My sleep patterns have improved somewhat over the last few weeks so I was a bit surprised, TBH. Half the day gone.

So then I went back to the paint shop and explained about the colour business. "Ah!", says he, "you mean this colour card!". But he hadn't got the base for that either, so it's going to be Jan 6th before it arrives.

So back home in a positively balmy 11.8 degrees, I set to on the walls. I've done the back wall and both gables as far as the bandsaw, so a bit more than half the wall area, given that the front wall has so many apertures in it. I managed to do it all from the floor, using the roller on a pole. I still need to get up on something to do the corners, but the more I can do standing on the ground the happier I am.











That will probably be it now until the weekend at least. I'm not really into Christmas, it's alright I guess if you've got kids and families and all that stuff, but if you haven't it's just an inconvenience when you can't buy paint. But I have a friend who is Jordanian but is living in the UK at the moment. His family is back in Jordan so he is on his own. So he is coming on Christmas Eve for a couple of nights and I need to make the house look a bit less like a builder's yard and a bit more like a domestic residence. So that is tomorrow's task.


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## mindthatwhatouch

Hang on Steve, you've got a friend coming to stay??? 

Tidy the house and then line up the jobs for him in the workshop :lol:


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## RogerS

Steve, I've got some Aquamac strip you can have. Also have the spindle moulder cutter for it but bit difficult now you've made your door frame!!

Think I have Aquamac 63 and 21.


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## Steve Maskery

Thank you Roger. It just needs to fit into a saw-kerf groove The smaller the better, really.


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## RogerS

Steve Maskery":3u4kltwy said:


> Thank you Roger. It just needs to fit into a saw-kerf groove The smaller the better, really.



Steve, if you search for it on Axminster's website you can see if the dimensions fit.


----------



## jumps

Steve Maskery":1um919j0 said:


> I've finally thrown of the cloak of lethargy and put on the mantle of let's get on with it.
> 
> .....



when I started reading this 2 weeks ago I thought ' sensible Steve, get it all done and dusted before Autumn (hammer) and decided that I wasn't going to start mine until the spring.....

2 weeks later (8 months for you), and I'm both amazed at your perseverance and convinced I'm being a wus not just getting on with it!

as others have commented the thread is a fantastic mix of emotion and material content that is truly inspirational - thank you Steve; and also those who have contributed the little nuggets of info from time to time. =D>


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## Steve Maskery

Well today has not turned out quite as expected.

Akram was supposed to be coming over last night for a couple of days, but he is poorly sick and I certainly don't want the lurgy any more than he wants to party right now. So we've decided to postpone it all for a couple of days. All being well he is coming over tomorrow.

Which means I've had some time to myself (just for a change, ha-ha!). So I decided to set to on my planer/thicknesser. Although it is intact, it was just filthy from being in the barn, and any exposed steel areas were rusty. But most of it is just dirt and the rust was minimal because all the castings are aluminium.

So I armed myself with a bottle of Cif spray, a Sonic Scrubber, a steam cleaner and some WD40.







You can see the difference just a bit of cleaning makes






I took the fence apart to clean it under the tap in the kitchen. I discovered that it has three bolts holding it to the mount. It should have four. Does anyone have a spare one of these, please?






It's M8, about 20mm long with a star washer and a square nut. The square nut is important as it is held in a slot in the fence extrusion. I used to have boxes and tins and tubs of stuff like this, but, well, you know. If you've got one and would like to donate it to a good cause..., I'd be very grateful.

So after just 3 hours of cleaning, fettling and setting up:






I wouldn't go as far as to say it looks like new, but it looks clean and tidy again and planes beautifully, if rather loudly. It's never been a quiet machine, but in the large empty space it positively resounds.


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## Bigdanny

Merry Xmas Steve, put your feet up and have a mince pie and a port or whisky or both. You deserve it.
Danny


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## Steve Maskery

Thank you Danny, and Thank You to everyone else who has been so supportive over this little project. It really is much appreciated.

As it happens, Danny, I have some pastry in the fridge chilling, I have a bathroom warming up and I have a glass with something in it, so I'm going to have a bath, make some mince pies and read a book.


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## fiacha

Sounds like heaven Steve. I'm stuck with family this year and I'm about to go off the edge ! Currently hiding in the corner with laptop and bottle of bourbon 

I'll have a rummage in the bits box for one of those bolts tomorrow. If someone else sends one in the meantime, can they let the rest of us know here please !

Enjoy the day off Steve 

Adrian.


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## dc_ni

Steve Maskery":1t57sfrr said:


> Thank you Danny, and Thank You to everyone else who has been so supportive over this little project. It really is much appreciated.
> 
> As it happens, Danny, I have some pastry in the fridge chilling, I have a bathroom warming up and I have a glass with something in it, so I'm going to have a bath, make some mince pies and read a book.



Little project :shock: :shock: :shock: 
Nothing little about this build Steve. Has been a pleasure following it so far and I'm looking forward to seeing the first build to come out of it when it's finished

Merry Christmas Steve, have a well deserved rest. :ho2


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## AES

Good day Steve,

Further to the PM I sent you a while back I'm now back from hospital and rehab after my back op.

I'm now fairly mobile (though still doing Physio, etc) and if no one else has come up trumps I'm pretty sure I have one 8 mm square nut (or more!) in stock, and certainly some 8 mm machine screws, bolts, and star washers also in stock.

The only thing I'm not sure about is the thickness of that square nut - from memory (such as it is!) I'm pretty sure that mine look a bit thinner than the one in your photo. So please check that dimension and if mine are suitable it'll be no prob to pop one (plus washer & bolt or machine screw - which would you prefer?) in the post to you.

If my square nuts are too thin(!!) it'll be no prob to make one of correct thickness up for you.

As per my last PM, and as so many others have already said, thanks for a VERY inspiring thread.

Happy New Year and all the best Steve - keep smiling (then at least you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that everyone else who sees you will be asking themselves "What's that so & so been up to now?"). 

AES


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## Steve Maskery

Very pleased to hear all that, Andy. I hope you are back on your feet properly very soon.

That is a very kind offer. The thickness of the nut is not critical, just as long as it will slide in the extrusion and not turn. The thread does need to go right to the head because the piece being bolted is only a mm or two thick, so that's a machine screw, is it not?

I'd go down and measure it now, but I can't, on account of 5" snow having fallen off the roof and formed a ridge a mile high all across the front of the building. I'm glad I wasn't standing under it when that lot came down, although I would like to have seen it, from a safe distance, of course!

Very best wishes
Steve


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## Steve Maskery

Adrian
Sorry, I missed your post. I wasn't being rudely dismissive, honest.
It's a long time since I drank any bourbon. I seem to remember it being a bit fiery for my taste. I guess it depends which brand. I'm no expert. Perhaps I should experiment again...


----------



## AES

OK Steve, Yes, if you want threaded all the way up to the head then a machine screw is what you need.

But I've just checked and would you believe I'm currently nil stock of 8 mm square nuts?! So I'll knock a couple out tomorrow, it'll be good Physio, and my first "job" since getting back home from the meat factory. I'll do 2 off, 2 different thicknesses of stock steel, and leave the square dimension a bit over standard size so that with a bit of filing you'll be able to sort out a snug fit for your machine. (Screws, washers, etc, I've plenty in stock).

All will go in post in a Jiffy bag tomorrow.

@Adrian: Can I have his bourbon please :lol: :lol: 

Krgds
AES


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## AES

Steve, confirm Jiffy bag with your 8 mm stuff went in post today. Sorry for delay, please see your PMs a bit later on today for my "lame excuses" for delay!

Bag should arrive by end next week (or so) if not, please PM me.

Meantime happy, healthy, and wealthy (?!!!) New Year to you and all readers of this thread, plus of course, many more of 'em.

Krgds
AES


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## Steve Maskery

I'd planned to paint today anyway, as the weather forecast was good, but I saw Ray at a NYE party last night and he came up to me and said, "What are you doing tomorrow? Not sure what time I'll turn up...".

So after an evening of food, laughter and music I got to bed about 1.30, hoping Ray was going to be late. Very late.

As it was, I was up when he arrived, but that was about it, definitely not yet ready to start work. However, in due course I got my act together and we finished getting the first coat of paint on the walls. It was the perfect amount of paint, we we were not short but there was none left either. Spot on.











It's cold again for the next week or so, so the top coat of paint and the floor will have to wait., so my next project is to make a pair of double doors. I can't make my mind up whether to make a temporary pair with just the left-over 4x2s and OSB, or go to Nottingham to shop for some proper timber and make the proper pair. My mortiser is in a friend's garage, but I could rout mortises. And I do have my Ultimate Tenon Jigs, so tenons won't be a problem either. It's just that a cobbled-together pair is a lot quicker for an immediate solution and doesn't involve any more financial outlay. OTOH it means doing the job twice.
Decisions, decisions.


----------



## Racers

Knock up some temporary ones and wait until its warmer.

Pete


----------



## brianhabby

Just watched the video you linked to on YouTube about your box joint jig. Compared to the cramped conditions you used to, not only work in, but film in also, you're going to have oodles of space in this new one. I'm sure it was worth all the work. 

regards 

Brian


----------



## Noggsy

I agree with Pete. You've got enough on your plate at the moment...knock up a cheap (free) pair and then carry on with other jobs. You're on the finishing stretch now! Looking great.


----------



## OLD

Could you make doors say 2 inches thick that could then be clad at a later date to give the look you want.That could be a cost saver and minimal double work.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've decided that I shall make the frame proper and then a temporary set of doors.


----------



## t0ne

Wow, finally finished reading this awesome thread. Congrats on the build so far Steve and I think it's wonderful that there's been this friendly community around to help out, offer encouragement and advice.
I'm looking forward to seeing the completion of your workshop in real-time now


----------



## Steve Maskery

I didn't start very early today, and it was cold, and my mate Charlie arrived not long after I did finally get going, so not a great deal of progress, but there is some.

The first thing I did was to clean up my bandsaw a bit. I've not finished the job, but the fence is clean again and it all runs smoothly. The fine-adjuster rip fence looks a bit tired, as it is made from MDF and 2 years in a barn has not done it any favours, but it does still work.

I set up my Ultimate Bandsaw Tenon Jig. This one is a recent version, I made it at the Community Workshop. It has a fine adjuster built in. I had someone grumble that whilst the jig was on one DVD, the fine adjuster for it was on another. Well, true, I guess. So I thought I'd try to build a version that has a FA built in without taking up any more space horizontally. It works as it should, although in these photos it is still attached to my original fine-adjuster.

I've been given a nice piece of mahogany by my mate Julian from the CW. It was part of a door frame, but he's has some building work done and now the walls are thicker and the frame no longer fits. It has some hinge recesses which I have filled and I'm hoping that they will be completely hidden when I am finished. Anyway, I marked out for some mortices where the door jambs will fit into this cill.

The nice thing about the UBTJ is that not only can the tenon be any size, but because of the split back fence I can also use it to cut open mortices to create a bridle joint.

So with the fence closed up and the jig in the closed position too, I cut the outside face of the open mortise:












The I insert the spacer. This is a bit of planed-up roof lath, so it is about 20mm, but I don't need to know exactly. Note that it goes behind the top carriage, not behind the kerf compensation stop.






And when the workpiece is turned over to do the other end:






At this point Charlie turned up and I was already cold, so it all stopped, but tomorrow I shall cut and fit the rest of the frame.


----------



## The Bear

Steve
Do you even need doors at the moment. Looks like your big machines are in. I'd be tempted to make the frame but board up the hole as simply and cheaply as possible. Then when everything else is done make them my first project. Can you manage with the small door only until then?
Mark


----------



## nanscombe

The Bear":30eboits said:


> ...
> Looks like your big machines are in. I'd be tempted to make the frame but board up the hole as simply ....



.. , cheaply *but* securely as possible.

You don't want to encourage unwanted visitors.


----------



## dickm

+1 for a quick and dirty, but SECURE filler for the hole. And if you REALLY want a door for now, why not get something nasty off Freegle or the local tip. But fill the hole, quick - style can come later.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I really do wish I could get going earlier. I didn't sleep last night. Well I did, for about 3/4 hour, then I woke and was still buzzing at nearly four. When I did finally conk out I was awakened by the postman.The result was that I didn't get as far as I had hoped, today, and not for the first time.

Now then, where were we? Ah, yes, we were cutting bridle joints on the bandsaw, weren't we?

I'd cut the open mortices but not chopped them out. So that was the first job. I used my jigsaw to remove most of the waste and a chisel to clean up the bottom. The blade is a cheap and nasty one, as someone, who shall remain nameless (but it was neither me nor Ray) broke my rather excellent Bosch one cutting up firewood in a dodgy manner. This blade goes where e'er it likes and I nicked the sides of my otherwise perfect open mortise. Still, it's a workshop door frame, not a dining chair, so let's keep things in proportion, shall we? No photos, sorry.

So to cut the corresponding tenon we start with the back fence open and the top carriage closed:






Then the same spacer is inserted, but this time it goes behind the kerf compensation stop, so that the workpiece is moved over by the size of the tenon plus the kerf of the blade.






The depth of the frame is such that some of it will protrude inwards more than the cill, so I have to account for that too, with another cut, but the end result is rather neat:






And of course I did the same on the other jamb.

Doing the top corners is straightforward as the jambs and the top are all the same width. Is there a special name for the top member of a door frame, or is it just the top?

edit - I think it's called the header. Am I right?

I cut the shoulders of the tenons by hand, as the jambs are a bit long for supporting cross-wise on the BS. I did think of trying the depth stop function on the SCMS, but it seemed easier just to cut them by hand. Plus, I've done so little proper woodwork over the last few years I really do need the practice.






I was very careful to mark my faces and edges and as a result the top bridle joints fit perfectly and flush. No cleaning up is required.






When I got the frame together and in the opening, one side was pretty much perfect





But the other wasn't











Now that looks a long way out. I don't really understand it as the cill registers as level and the jamb looks OK with a bubble. Not perfect, perhaps, but not 20mm out!






So I'm inclined to go with the bubble . I'm not going to trim anything important until I understand exactly what is out where. I suspect it is cummulative error, everything is nearly right, but altogether... I can tweak it a bit when I finally screw it into place.


----------



## Steve Maskery

So I've not got the frame totally finished, but I have given the man-door a coat of preservative and screwed a sheet of OSB over the big door. It should stop the rain from blowing in, if nothing else.
















I've been sitting here drinking a pint whilst I've been typing this. It's Brakspear Triple III. Very nice indeed. But I've not yet finished the bottle and I feel like I've been on a bender. It's 6.7% ! I didn't realise that when I put it in my trolley.

Cheers. Hic.


----------



## Bod

If anybody deserves a beer, it's you!

Well done
Bod


----------



## Steve Maskery

Although I'd done the joinery for the door frame, I'd not finished shaping the cill, so the first job today was to get the TS in a proper state for use.

I vacuumed and brushed out everything I could and dismantled the rip fence and did my best to de-rust the locking lever.






I still have most of my accessories, my short fence (which contains the main spanner and spare arbor), but it's difficult to steam-clean MDF, so some bits look a bit sad. 






But I did my best and whilst it does all look a bit well-worn, everything was operational.






Or so I thought. I switched it on and... nothing. Now I have had this running, so I know it does still works, but there was no sign of life. So I started from first principles. I switched everything except the lights off and opened up the switch box, the one that will be mounted on the floor, but is currently just trailing. The live wire was a bit loose, so Good, I thought, problem fixed. But no, it wasn't. So then I checked the connection box on the saw itself. It was getting that far. Bummer, that implies something in the saw itself. But then I replaced the cover, switched everything back on and hey presto, we had action. I have no idea what had changed, but it is now properly working and sounding smooth. The only part I don't have is the mitre fence. I haven't seen it yet, so I have to assume that is has gone. I rarely used it, so it's not a critical part, but it was useful for some jobs. But TBH I'm just glad to have the rest of it intact.

So I canted the blade to 7.5 degrees to match the man-door cill. Bevel ripping is much safer if the blade cants away from the fence, so that the offcut does not get trapped in the triangle of blade, table and fence. My saw is the older design, so to achieve this I have to ut the fence on the LH side. This in turn means I can't use my normal blade guard so my magnetic one comes into play.






So now I was set up for ripping the bevel, which I did, then restored the saw to its normal position to make a series of shallow cuts to cut the drip groove on the underside. I rounded off the front edge with a block plane and the end result looks like this.






Tomorrow at the Community Workshop I'm going to rout out for the hinges so when Ray next comes we can install the frame. I'd do it here, but I don't have an ordinary 1/4" router cutter, which I need to use my jig. I have been given a few router cutters, which I shall use, of course, but a 1/4 straight is not amongst them. I shall be glad to get the place properly secure, as it is a pain to have to drag everything walkable back up to the house every night.

All in all, quite a satisfying day.


----------



## John Brown

What is the name of that upside down y thing you are using to check the door frame for square, and how is it better than a standard square?
Just curious.


----------



## wcndave

If I recall correctly Steve calls it a square of Thales.

The theorem goes that if you join any point on a circle circumference to the ends of its diameter drawn in any direction you get a right angle.

Therefore I believe the moving middle leg of Steve's stick meets both ends of the larger piece and therefore as you rotate the smaller piece you describe a circle around the connector (naturally), but importantly with the larger length being a diameter.

Therefore the three points are always ninety degrees.

Benefits compared to a normal square? Buying a square with that size would be very expensive. This is cheap to make.

Also you can use in tall narrow spaces like a cd tower where a square would not fit, and in larger spaces and in very large ones.

I guess to make one you can fix the smaller piece roughly in middle, then saw/sand down both points at once at one end, then the other, being careful to only match the shorter piece when doing the second end. If you do go too far, say on a disc sander, just repeat on first end. If you take too many goes though it will end up quite short! 

IIRC much fuller explanation on Steve's DVDs

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


----------



## John Brown

Thanks.
I guess it's important to use straight and stable timber!
I only have the bandsaw CDs myself.

Strangely, I can find no reference to such a tool via Google. Maybe other folks call it by another name.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Have you searched on "upside down y thing"


----------



## Random Orbital Bob




----------



## monkeybiter

John Brown":27v8nw9f said:


> Strangely, I can find no reference to such a tool via Google. Maybe other folks call it by another name.



http://lumberjocks.com/projects/64811

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/37087


----------



## wcndave

I thought I linked to that ;-) (The diagram)







The point being that you devise the tool with the long arm being AC and the short arm being OB where of course OB == OA == OC, hence easy to make!


----------



## John Brown

Random Orbital Bob":2rhex1ug said:


> Have you searched on "upside down y thing"


No. I searched on back-to-front lambda thing. Stupid me.... The perils of a classical education, I suppose.

Actually I searched on "Square of Thales". All I got were references to the least hip person who works for some company providing defence systems.


----------



## John Brown

I also found a youtube video by the Maskery man, in which he claims not to know what it's called.
Thanks anyway for all the references and explanations, and apologies for the thread detour.


----------



## wcndave

John Brown":15iadp5i said:


> I also found a youtube video by the Maskery man, in which he claims not to know what it's called.
> Thanks anyway for all the references and explanations, and apologies for the thread detour.


Right, But in the comments he goes for Thales ;-)


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Actually I think a remake of that video should be your first "footage" project in the new workshop Steve. It's very old and as you rightly point out in one of the comments, the production quality is poor. It would be a nice easy and quick start to test the new environment and at the same time to update what is a very useful tool that anyone can make with a little care. I'll do a complementary acoustic guitar intro for you if you like  I invested in a Mac based recording studio over Christmas and its stunning quality.

What got me thinking about it is I'm helping a mate build his first ever wooden framed workshop and that would have been very useful when we were framing the walls just before Xmas. It's the scalability of it that's really appealing as well as its flexibility for different shaped squares.


----------



## monkeybiter

Random Orbital Bob":2tza9qmn said:


> its flexibility for different shaped squares.


 :?


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

You know what I mean


----------



## Steve Maskery

Flipping heck, I go out for the day and the thread goes mad!

Square of Thales is my name for it, as I've not found another name anywhere else. Thales was the first known philosopher and is credited with the discovery that the corners of any triangle always add up to180 degrees, and that is the basis for this working.

When I made the film I'd had the camera less than 24 hours and hadn't a clue about anything. Especially white balance. That's why I make Dale Winton look a little anaemic. You are right, it is worthy of a remake.

It's great strength is its scalability. An engineer's square of that size would be very expensive, whereas this costs nothing. The only way it can go out of square is for the long arm to become bowed. That would affect its accuracy, because the pivot point would not be in the centre of the circle described above. But apart from that it is foolproof.

And just so that I am not misleading anyone, it's not on any of my DVDs, just the Youtube film.

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

On Tuesdays I volunteer at the Community Workshop, but as well as helping others, others help me, too, and I sometimes get the chance to do a bit for myself. So today I went armed with my router, hinge jig and door jambs, which I'd already marked out.

So I found and fitted a 1/4" cutter and cut the hinge recesses.






















That's a lot easier than chopping them in situ.

I've placed them 9" up from the bottom and 6" down from the top. The middle one isn't in the middle (in keeping with Robs different-shaped squares, I guess - that made me laugh), but is 0.62 of the way up the door. Phi. We are getting classical again, John.

I've brought home the router cutter so that I can do the doors, too, as well as 4 long sash cramps (yes I have signed them out). They are Nu-Tools ones, so cheap and nasty, but they will do the job. What is really annoying is that I had 4 good quality Record ones that were brand new, and now some other pipper has them. Bar stewards.

So tomorrow Ray is coming and I hope to have the doors on. We'll see.


----------



## wcndave

Ah, apologies, I knew I'd seen the video somewhere! That'll teach you to go out for the day!


----------



## Steve Maskery

The first job today was to get the frame in. The job was so much easier with two. We could wedge and shim to our hearts' content and we got it absolutely spot on. We measured it with a spirit level and the Square of Thales. Everything tallied at the bottom and sides, and when we had screwed up the top, which was slightly bowed downwards in the middle, that tallied too.

And as a final check for planarity, I checked it with a pair of crossed strings. The strings just touched without deflecting each other, indicating they are in the same plane, confirming the vertical readings of the spirit level.

I had my hair cut yesterday and now my head is cold.






We then cut 4 stiles for the doors, all in one go so they were the same length.






And then a set of rails. I then used my domino to cut a set of mortices. They are only 6mm and 20mm deep, which may not sound much, and it isn't, but I only have 6mm dominoes left, I used an array of 4 in the top and mid rails (4x2s), and an array of 6 in the 6x2 bottom rail.






Gluing and clamping up was not as problematical as I had expected, although we had to be fast, so they was no time for photography, but then we cut a sheet of OSB to fit and screwed that down. It gives phenomenal bracing, as well as a weatherproof face. You can see now why the short tenons are enough. They really don't have to do anything.






By this time it was getting dark, and so, as there was not time to make the second door today, we boarded up again and packed up.

We'll finish the job tomorrow, all being well.


----------



## Ring

I think a photo of the hair cut should be put up as well ... no photo it didn't happen lol.  
looking good Steve going to be a cracker when finished. 
Jim


----------



## Steve Maskery

We had a few pieces of polystyrene left over after the floor job, but it is 50mm thick, whereas, because the 4x2 is planed, the cavity is no more than 45mm deep, so we ripped it all up to a tad under 45mm and packed it into the door.











It's made a right mess of my bandsaw (and my sweater, my hair, my face, my jeans and everything else in the workshop)






Then we glued and screwed on the second skin and offered it up.






Something was definitely wrong. The hinges went in OK, but then the top of the door was fouling on the frame header. So we took it off and trimmed the top. Still no. How could we bee so far out? So some more off and the door went in. And then. When it was all in there was a huge gap at the top. I have no idea what we did wrong, but you could drive a bus through there. 

Anyway, there it was. So we did the second door. We actually hung the stile before we assembled the frame to ensure that the hinges fitted. They did. So we made the second frame.






When we cut the skin it didn't fit, but we discovered that the frame was not square. My sash cramps are not long enough to go from corner to corner, but we mackled them up to hook over each other, tightened it up a bit and made it worse. This was not our day. Then we realised that we had turned the door over (because the two skins are different widths and the one we had cut was for the face that was on the underside). Anyway, we got it right in the end.

We were running out of polystyrene so the second door was even more of a patchwork, but we did do it and had just dust and some tiny scraps left.






When we hung it and had to trim just 3mm or so off the top. This second door looks much better, just as it should. Pity about No. 1.

So the fit looks good from the outside, not quite so good from the inside, and whilst it is not pretty, it will see me through the rest of the winter, at the very least.
















They are not totally finished - I haven't fitted the loose door stops (because I haven't made them yet) and the doors are screwed down at the moment rather than bolted in place, but it should mean that the workshop stays warmer than the outside when the temperature does drop.

Tomorrow, however, it is due to warm up a bit, so I hope to get some painting done. There is a fair bit of clearing up to do first, the place is a bit of a tip at the moment!


----------



## Steve Maskery

The workshop had got a tad untidy recently, so I had a bit of a clear up. Actually it took a good part of the morning.

The it started to get a bit warmer but windier, so as I really wanted to have the doors open to get that nice warm air in, I decided to fit the cabin hooks, I bought them from MoreHandles.com and they are rather nice. Unfortunately they appear to be just a tad loose and they have jumped out of their lops a couple of times in the wind. The hook bit could do with being a bit deeper, or the loop bit could do with being smaller and tighter. Either would be better. Still, they are there now, we'll see how I get on with them. Sorry, I forgot to take a photo and it is dark now.

So this afternoon I have been painting. I'd decided to do the walls magnolia, as it is less harsh than brilliant white. When I opened the tub I was shocked. I remember magnolia as having a slightly pinkish tinge. This was the colour of milky tea. Still there it was and on it went. It looked horrible. I just hoped it will dry a different colour.

I've painted one gable wall and a quarter of the back wall. It is drying paler, but it is not yet anything like what I expected. We'll see what it looks like tomorrow. I don't want to paint it all out again. I hate painting.


----------



## John15

Don't worry Steve - remember the old saying 'if in doubt use Magnolia'. I did my shed in Magnolia and it looks OK once it dried.

John


----------



## Scottdimelow

Maggi always looks that colour when it goes on, it'll dry fine.


----------



## RobinBHM

I prefer gardenia 10b15 generally to magnolia


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm not sure that I can make plain blank walls interesting, so I'll just say that I've finished the painting. I'm pleased to report that the paint does look much better now that it is dry. I had only a tiny bit left over, so part of the RH wall has had another coat. You can see the difference between the wet and the dry.












I think I need to take the ladders and the rest of the scaffolding back to Ray's ASAP, it would make a great deal of difference to the amount of Stuff in there.

The next job will be to fit the floor.

S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I did spend Monday in the workshop, and a couple of hours yesterday evening. It was supposed to be a pot-pourri of odd jobs; hanging the fire extinguisher, installing the alarm panel, insulating and lining the man-door. But as I was doing the latter, or at least preparing some support battens for it, my P/T stopped. The lights were on but no-one was home. I knew straight away what the problem was, it's happened once before, it's the drive belt from the cutter block to the gear train for the feed rollers. When it happened before, many years ago, I am pretty sure that I bought two drive belts, so I had a spare to hand next time it happened. Furthermore I remember seeing it recently, So the hunt was on. Yes, got it, installed it (it's a right faff as I have to remove the shaft of one of the pulleys and do a lot of wiggling, but as I've done it before it was not as hard as the first time). Job done, switch on. Nothing. I had mistaken a rubber band for the drive belt and of course, it just stretched and bounced.

So I googled for fan belts in Mansfield, and got a car factors I have used before. I rang them, yes, no problem we have one in stock. Great. 20 mins later it was "Ooh no, we haven't got anything like that, who did you speak to?". No idea. So I bought a standard V-belt of the same length and hoped for the best.

I couldn't try to fit it until yesterday afternoon, late. It doesn't fit. The problem is that the original is only about 2mm thick, it is flat. This was about 10mm thick and there isn't that much clearance between the pulley and the metal casing around it. So I went back and swapped it for a flatter poly-V like the main drive belt from motor to cutter block. It's 5mm longer, but I hoped I could accommodate that. 

So I got that on and it is so much more robust than the flimsy thing that had snapped, very happy. But that little episode had cost me a good half day.

And today I am knackered.

We had already worked out that we needed 3 full floor boards plus about 2ft per run and there would be 13 runs. But we had to remove the tongue on the first row and we didn't want to be left with a very narrow strip at the end, so we ripped off 450mm or so, so that it lined up with the opening to the double doors.






We then laid out the rest of the row and cut the end piece, 






the rest of which board became the first of the second row, thus staggering the joints by about 2ft or so. This piece had to be notched to go around the door frame.






There is a very slight step in depth just inside the door, due to the sole plate being a tad thinner than the polystyrene. But an extra strip of DPM made up the few mm






And so we continued, hammering everything together as we went.
















But something was not going very well, to be honest. I was rather hoping to get it all so tight that the joints became invisible, but instead we had small gaps all over the place. In some places we had glue squeeze-out, in others you could lose a coin down there. So I, yes I, the slow dim one, suggested we check the line with a string. Problem identified, we were out about 1/3 way along by a good 6mm. No wonder we weren't tight. 






It's because the wall is not laser straight. So we persuaded the boards into line and things looked better, but by this time the glue had grabbed and is was pretty much set in an imperfect position. It's not awful and if the glue had been grey than it would not be a problem, but I don't really want white lines. So tomorrow Ray is bringing some black cement colouring and we are going to try to make a grout.

I have to say that the material itself is excellent. It's almost like sandpaper, I'm not going to slip on that. OK, it is chipboard and as such the joints can't really be as tight as they would be on proper laminate flooring, but this is a workshop not a dining room and anyway it is not intended to be a finished floor surface. But so far I think it has been an excellent choice.

All that extra OSB was in the way so we had to re-stack that






And so, with 4 of the 13 rows laid, we called it a day. 






Clearing up I discovered that there was an Allen key missing from my set. I couldn't find it anywhere. I knew I had used it yesterday on the P/T, but where had I put it? Nowhere to be found. So, like Sherlock himself, I figured that when you have eliminate the the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the answer.

I took the panel off the side of the P/T and there, inside, was my Allen key, laughing and mocking me. I've no idea how I missed it, it's bright orange.

As I say, I am knackered.


----------



## The Bear

that flooring looks excellent Steve, has it got a brand name?

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Cabershield.


----------



## Racers

The gaps will give you somewhere to sweep the sawdust into.

:wink: 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Quite, Pete, quite. After a couple of weeks it won't make the slightest bit of difference.
When are you coming over?


----------



## wcndave

When I laid all my flooring, be it T&G OSB in attic, or laminate in main house, I drew a chalk line and next to one wall. I then double checked with string the first few rows until it was solid enough to just go for it.


----------



## Racers

Steve Maskery":7muh1s5p said:


> Quite, Pete, quite. After a couple of weeks it won't make the slightest bit of difference.
> When are you coming over?



I will try and get over at the weekend, will bring jam.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

We've had a long but very fruitful day, we've laid twice as much as we did yesterday.

The first task was to move some stuff about. In my old workshop my TS was on a mobile base, which made moving it easy, but it did compromise its stability. It would wobble, not because the saw is flimsy, it isn't at all, but because the mobile base was.Here I've had it on a second piece of OSB. It's rock steady now but difficult to move. We lifted it onto some steel pipes and rolled it away from where we needed to work







Then we carried on from where we left off. We'd completed just past the double doors and I've realised that I've not shown you how we notched them











When we got to the floor electrics, we had to disconnect the floor sockets and drill a hole through which we could feed the cables






and then reconnect. If I'd got my finger out and made the power tower we could have installed that at the same time. I cut the plywood for it weeks ago and have not got round to gluing it together. So I still have trailing sockets.


----------



## Steve Maskery

So that held us up for a little while, but after that it was plain sailing for the next few rows.

Some of boards were not very flat. You can see how this end is kicked up. I think it must be due to the polyurethane coating being on only one side of the board.






As we got closer to the wall we had to work backwards, which was a bit awkward, really






As we got to the very back row, we had to rip the boards to width, being careful to measure from the top face, not from the very edge of the tongue.






Sawing was getting more and more difficult, and I put this down to the blade getting blunt. This chipboard really takes it out of them. But it was not only that, look how the kerf has closed up behind the blade. Now tell me that a riving knife is optional.






The very last piece is the most problematic, as there is nowhere to start from We ended up trimming the tongues by about 50% Then, when we did finally get it dropped in we couldn't get it out again, so we just got it as open as we could, squirted in some glue and tightened it up again.











And so, after a long day, we could stand back and admire our work.






I'm really pleased with it, it's lovely to walk on. It's not as harsh as the concrete floor I had before. That was always a regret of mine. It doesn't bounce, but it feels more like a sprung dance floor, only non-slip. Assuming I can tidy up the joints with grout, and I'm pretty sure I can, I think it will prove to have been an excellent choice.

The other satisfying thing is that we ordered exactly the right number of boards. I have about 2/3 of one left and a handful of small scraps that are not big enough for anything. And although 3 of the boards were slightly damaged in transit, we wangled it so that the damaged bits were all part of that small bit of waste. Very nicely efficient. 

So tomorrow I need to go shopping for grout, skirting, matching, some screws, mastic, guttering.........


----------



## brianhabby

Floor looks good Steve. I used regular chipboard flooring on mine so will have to paint it afterwards. 

If this sounds like a daft question then I apologise in advance, but why the glue. Surely the boards will keep themselves together if they are a good fit at the walls. 

regards 

Brian


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's not a daft q Brian.
The boards must not be a good fit at the walls, I am supposed to have an expansion gap. OK chipboard does no move much, but it does move, as you can see from the kerf picture. So there is 10mm or so clear all around, which will be covered by skirting. If you have no expansion gap, then if it does expand, it will simply dome, and I have seen floors to which that has happened.
S


----------



## monkeybiter

Have you allowed for possible movement in the fitting of your floor sockets?


----------



## Steve Maskery

In what way, Mike? The floor sockets are not actually in the floor itself. The cables come up through the floor and will be mounted on a tower about 18" or so high. The 32A one for the TS and a double socket for the P/T and DX. I might add an extra double later if I need it. As I say, I cut the pieces weeks ago and just haven't got round to biscuiting them together.
That tower will then be screwed to the floor and I won't have to get on my knees to disconnect anything.
Talking of knees, this flooring job is knackering on them. I have a very good piece of closed-cell foam which makes it more bearable, but it really is crippling. Strangely, the worst one is not the one I damaged when I fell, it's the other one. But I definitely don't like having to get down.
In contrast, Ray is down and up like the proverbial.


----------



## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":29zmmhw0 said:


> It's not a daft q Brian.
> The boards must not be a good fit at the walls, I am supposed to have an expansion gap. OK chipboard does no move much, but it does move, as you can see from the kerf picture. So there is 10mm or so clear all around, which will be covered by skirting. If you have no expansion gap, then if it does expand, it will simply dome, and I have seen floors to which that has happened.
> S



Ah. I see now. I have left a small gap around the edges on mine but have not glued the boards together so it will be interesting to see if they part over time.

regards 

Brian


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":29uvuymi said:


> In what way, Mike?.......................That tower will then be screwed to the floor



I wasn't sure if anything was going to be fixed to both the finish floor and the layer between it, sounds like it will only be finished to the finish floor so clearly immune. 
Looking peerless now for an 'amateur' workspace. :mrgreen:


----------



## n0legs

Looking good Steve, (and let's not forget Ray) you're doing a great job =D>


----------



## Graham Orm

Looking fantastic Steve.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well the day started with a visit to the Practice Nurse for an annual blood check. She told me I needed to lose weight and drink less. Tell me something I don't know.

Then I spent an hour doing woodwork. Well actually it was just ripping some 6x2s down into 10mm square beading for Ray, but it was cutting wood, using my tablesaw and most of all it SMELLED like I was doing woodwork. I miss my kickstop board. I broke the red hand when I took it to the barn. It was also mounted on the mobile base, rather than on the saw itself., so I shall have to fix all that. It's such a useful gadget.

Then it was on to the build.

Having fixed the P/T drive belt I could now fix some beading around the inside of the door cavity.






I used an electric nailer for the job. It's a Rapesco. It is, by far, the worst power tool I have ever wasted my money on. I'd forgotten just how awful it is. Anyone want to buy it of me? It's excellent. :---) What is the point if half the time it misfires, half the time the nails are 6mm proud and the other half the time the firing pin damages the workpiece, even with the soft nose fitted? It's truly awful.

Ray had given me some polystyrene foam, which I thought was 20mm. It isn't ,it is 25mm and thus is proud of the door cavity. But I had a small piece of the 100mm Xtrathem from doing the walls, so I ripped that into 20mm pieces and started the patchwork.






There wasn't enough of that, but I also had a couple of even smaller pieces of Recticel, which is the same sort of stuff and continued with that. But would you Adam and Eve it, I was just a few square inches short.






The I remembered something. I'd bought a coathook, but if I want to screw that to the door, it would have to be quite low to catch the brace. So I cut a piece of flooring and replaced a section of foam with that.






So then I could cut the matching. I managed to cock up the measurements, not once but twice, one on length (how can it be 6mm too short when you've got a stop set?) and once on the width. Remember whether you are cutting off the tongue or the groove, Steve, you plonker. As it happened I had just enough spare to complete the job. So after setting all the nails and attaching the hook






it looks like this:






If I'd had my router table set up, I could have bevelled the ends and edges where they meet the rest of the door. It would have made a nicer job, but I haven't and I didn't. But it's neat enough.


----------



## Racers

I visited the Cathedral of woodwork on Sunday its huge!





That's taken with a 17mm lens and I still couldn't get it all in!

Steve and Ray have been very busy and done a cracking job.
I like the flooring it feels very nice to walk on should not tire your legs out.

Nice work on the door but you will be losing all the light through the knots! 






Pete


----------



## The Bear

Wow, Pete's photo makes it look even bigger that I thought it was. Amazing space.

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Racers":2le5slhl said:


> I visited the Cathedral of woodwork on Sunday its huge!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's taken with a 17mm lens and I still couldn't get it all in!



The camera never lies...

S


----------



## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":2wbyh3ny said:


> Racers":2wbyh3ny said:
> 
> 
> 
> I visited the Cathedral of woodwork on Sunday its huge!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's taken with a 17mm lens and I still couldn't get it all in!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The camera never lies...
> 
> S
Click to expand...


Next time I visit I'll bring my 10mm lens 

regards

Brian


----------



## hammer n nails

Somone mentioned a aircraft hanger you could get a harrier in there hey fabulous workplace wonder how long it will be before u outgrow it thats what happens to most of us , what a great construction very well done will keep watching your thread


----------



## Racers

brianhabby":2zgod58q said:


> Next time I visit I'll bring my 10mm lens
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian



I have a 8mm Samyang fish eye :shock: 

It does this on a full frame camera



Eye on the clouds by maddpete, on Flickr

And this on a crop sensor 



Dungeness sea cabbage by maddpete, on Flickr


Pete


----------



## nanscombe

It's not often you see men boasting about how small their's is compared to someone else's. :lol:


----------



## brianhabby

nanscombe":9kv1gsvm said:


> It's not often you see men boasting about how small their's is compared to someone else's. :lol:


----------



## brianhabby

Racers":3d275cbx said:


> brianhabby":3d275cbx said:
> 
> 
> 
> Next time I visit I'll bring my 10mm lens
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a 8mm Samyang fish eye :shock:
> 
> It does this on a full frame camera
> 
> 
> 
> Eye on the clouds by maddpete, on Flickr
> 
> And this on a crop sensor
> 
> 
> 
> Dungeness sea cabbage by maddpete, on Flickr
> 
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...

Pete, now you're just showing off  but I must admit you got me beat with that

regards 

Brian


----------



## Racers

Its a cracking lens and quite cheap as well.

Pete


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## monkeybiter

nanscombe":255mua6j said:


> It's not often you see men boasting about how small their's is compared to someone else's. :lol:



Well the "Look how big mine is!" prize has been well and truly claimed by S.Maskery.


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## Wizard9999

Over and above the size I have to say it is looking a very professional environment. In particular I do like that flooring, I think I'm going to have to get some of that.

Steve, I presume as you have not returned to the topic gain any concerns about the insulation under the floor being able to manage the wight on top of it are long forgotten?

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":x42r8vla said:


> Over and above the size I have to say it is looking a very professional environment. In particular I do like that flooring, I think I'm going to have to get some of that.
> 
> Steve, I presume as you have not returned to the topic gain any concerns about the insulation under the floor being able to manage the wight on top of it are long forgotten?



The heaviest things in the workshop are the TS, BS and bench and so far there have been no problems. Early days, I guess, but certainly there are no signs at all of anything amiss. If you use this kind of flooring, I don't think you will be disappointed. I'm not, anyway, not yet.


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## n0legs

So let's fast forward a few weeks and the workshop is finished, Steve is all settled in.
What are you making first Steve ??
Pray tell :?:


----------



## nanscombe

... A trip to the travel agent to book a holiday to recover from the building process I would imagine. :lol:


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## NickWelford

Canapés for the open day?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I started to make a coffee table in pippy oak. I've made the top and breadboard ends at the Community Workshop It's not finished, but the bulk of the work is done. I've also cut some QS veneers but I've done a lousy job of it, so rather than making my QS oak go further, I suspect I've wasted it


----------



## Steve Maskery

I spent Monday faffing about with the alarm system. I suspect that it is a very good piece of kit, but the documentation that comes with is is absolutely dire. It's not been written by someone for whom English is their first language, there is no proper manual (not even on line) and the Easy Start manual has entries in the Table of Contents which do not exist in the actual text. I used to write technical manuals and this is the worst I've ever seen. The instructions for mounting the sensors, for example, are for a previous model and bear no resemblance to the product in the box.

Also, instead of an Easy Lock turn-button, which the old model had, to fix the circuit board into the body, the later model has the CB screwed in place. The screw is about 5 or 6mm long and thinner than a meccano bolt. It's sited hard up against the battery housing, so you can't use you fingers to manipulate it into position very easily. So there I am, up a ladder, trying to insert a tiny, tiny screw horizontally into an inaccessible hole. If I dropped it there is not snowball in Hades chance of finding it. It's a fantastic triumph of accountancy over engineering.

The unfortunate guy whose job it is to man the customer support desk could not have been more helpful, so I do have the proper manual as a PDF, but it is still for the old model of sensor, but at least the English is English. When I pointed out the inadequate nature of the documentation he did not seem the least bit surprised.

So at least I now have the info I need to configure it how I want it.

................

Ray came today, to do the outside lights. I was expecting to do those myself, but he wanted to come over so who am I to argue? As usual, it was Ray up the ladder while I was Gopher-in-Chief. I can't complete the front cladding until I have the window frames in place, so this is a temporary mounting. So we put up some blocks to fill what will be the void behind the cladding.







But then we realised that the cable needs to come out in the middle of the mounting, not under the bottom. So we replaced the blocks with two pieces of slate lath with a gap in between.






I'd bought the lights themselves a few months ago when they were closing my local Homebase. There is a backplate and the main unit fits over it and is fixed with two tiny, tiny decorative nuts. Which we dropped. So two of us were on our knees sweeping the mud and what is left of the grass with a magnet. Eventually I spotted it, it had bounced quite a way and landed in the snow ridge formed when yesterday's snow slid of the roof.

I'd bought a double switch plate, so I could have both switches just inside the door. Unfortunately I had cracked the back box when I dropped something on it and as we removed the switch plate the back box broke, so I had to make an emergency visit to Screwfix. By the time I had got back, Ray had finished the rest of the cabling and the light was fading. We fixed up the switch, turned on the leccy and - nothing. The MCB trips every time we switch it on. Unfortunately it was getting too late to find out what the problem was, so I have an outside light circuit which I can't yet use but it is not affecting any other part of my electrics. It's a pity, because it would be very useful. Still, it's nearly there and will look very nice, I think.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Remember my floor? My nice, grippy, grey floor that I decided I should grout? Well I think I've ruined it. I've certainly ruined my saucepan.

I bought some grout and mixed up half a bag in an old saucepan I had kept for just such jobs. It was far too much for one session. The gaps are very small, nothing bigger an a mm or so and in many places I can't get a fingernail in. I applied it with filler knife and got it everywhere. It all looked right mess when I finished. 

In fact, about half way through I wondered about not mixing it at all, just brushing in dry grout. I'd phoned Eric the Viking for a chat and he suggested the same, so I did some of it like that. 

I've not done the whole floor, only about half, my knees couldn't stand it any more. So when I packed up last night I wondered what it was going to look like. I forgot about the saucepan until later in the evening, by which time it was dark and cold and I had no intention of going down the garden, so it was no surprise when I went down this morning to find it solid in the pan. But worse, the floor looked horrible.






and scrubbing just seemed to make matters worse






The only saving grace of it all is that where the grout has dried and I've cleaned up best I can, it looks as if it will actually come clean, given enough Flash. But it's a mile back to the kitchen to change the bucket of water.






I wish I'd just left it and let normal dirt and detritus fill the cracks and I'm going to wait until what I have done has fully cured and see what it really does look like before I do any more.

I've been out and bought some skirting and architrave this afternoon.


----------



## Doug B

Think you'll find that over time the grout, which is ridged when dry, will simply crack out of the joints with the movement of the floor Steve,
The over spread will wash off if it's not too thick, or you could try grout remover.
If you still want to fill the remaining joints I'd suggest you masking tape both sides of the joints & force a flexible filler into the joint with a knife, then remove the tapes before the filler completely cures.


----------



## geordie

You could paint the floor with a epoxy paint Steve I know this is added expence that you could do without but it will cover the grout and also give addaed durablity to your floor

Regards Geordie


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## Bigdanny

Hi Steve, after a month or so you'll probably not notice it and for sure no visitors will either. Its a mistake and you learn from it.
I would recommend Sikaflex , you should be able to get it grey in a tube or sausage, should be good up to 3-4 cms wide. Apply it, smooth over with a small spatula. Dont play with it too much and maybe leave ever so slightly proud. When it dries after 24 hours or so it can be sanded. It can be used on concrete as well.

Remember saucpans are for cooking with. (hammer) .

Good luck with the rest of it.

Danny


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## Water-Mark

Reading the title I had visions of a toppled machine and a hole in the floor!

I think ruined is a bit strong, granted it's not gone perfectly but very little does first time around.

It's still an awesome space


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## Steve Maskery

I think, with the great benefit of hindsight, that I should have used two tubes when laying the boards. One tube would be the adhesive, on the T&G, but lay a fine bead of grey flexible mastic, such as I am using for the gap between the floor and the door cill. That would get squeezed out as we went along and could be wiped up as we went. It would have been a much better job.

Too late for me, but it might help someone else.


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## DennisCA

Oh well buy lots and lots of boards and put in a wooden floor. I would like one myself but I've already gone too far, gotta live with the concrete now.


----------



## Graham Orm

Hi Steve, I don't know what process you've used but I've grouted a gazillion floors and walls. I wish you'd asked.

The process is:
Mix the grout to a toothpaste texture and feed it into the joints using one of these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grounting-Flo ... 2ecf278477 It acts as a sqeegee and removes 95% of the remaining grout on the tile (floor) surface.
Allow it to set up for ten mins then wash the grouted area with a sponge (not too wet or you'll wash out the grout in the joints). Use a circular motion then you're less likely to wipe down one of the joints and clean it out. Keep some mix to hand incase this happens. 
I use one of these. It's more practical for regular use and cleans the sponge better than wringing. This is the first one I found on Ebay, you can get them for half the price.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rubi-Rubiclea ... 20f387ba98

*Now here's the best bit as far as you're concerned. *
There will still be a residue on the tile surface after washing the bulk off. No matter how many times you try and wash this residue off it doesn't go. The way to get rid is to *let it dry completely and simply wipe with a dry cloth*. Dig out an old towel and try that and see if it lifts the remaining stain. You'll need to keep shaking it out of a window as it soon fills with dust.

As mentioned earlier grout sets up really hard and is brittle, unless your floor is guaranteed not to flex it's likely to crack.

This guy 'rinses' 4/5 times https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ouw7KAlkD3U then uses a dry towel the following day!!! Obviously doesn't make his living tiling! Go to 6 minutes in to see the clean up process.
So does this guy who is obviously a pro https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiFErZa ... 1421914688

I'm astounded! Here's some of my stuff washed once then dry polished, all done in one hour.












Give the dry polish a try Steve. Good luck.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I'm not working on it today, I'm making Eccles cakes and then going out for a singing session, but I've just been down to have a look. It's not too bad. There is some staining on the boards along the grout lines, but the dry grout just sweeps up and it looks OK. I think a towel is a good idea. Thanks Graham.

I think I've got a few areas a bit too wet when I was trying to clean. It feels as if they have swollen a bit, I'll know better tomorrow when I do some more work. But at least it's not totally wrecked.

S


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## lincs1963

Your workshop is looking great, don't worry too much about the floor I am sure no one will notice. For future reference though a couple of small points. Firstly you made things harder for yourself by laying the boards with the grooved edge outwards, if you set off tongue out, so to speak you are applying glue to the previously fixed board and not handling a board covered in wet glue. It also makes it much easier to get your last board in. Secondly those type of boards are usually stuck together with d4 adhesive which foams up and fills any gaps and can be scraped off the top afterwards, thus leaving a gapless finish. I know pictures can be misleading but it looks to me as though you didn't put nearly enough glue into your joints, it should squeeze out of the joint as you pull it up tight.
Anyway, hope you find some of this of interest, I am really enjoying your build, be pleased to see it up and running.
Neil.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thanks. You sound as if you are right. I'll try to remember for next time... :?


----------



## Wizard9999

lincs1963":356dcq1d said:


> Your workshop is looking great, don't worry too much about the floor I am sure no one will notice. For future reference though a couple of small points. Firstly you made things harder for yourself by laying the boards with the grooved edge outwards, if you set off tongue out, so to speak you are applying glue to the previously fixed board and not handling a board covered in wet glue. It also makes it much easier to get your last board in. Secondly those type of boards are usually stuck together with d4 adhesive which foams up and fills any gaps and can be scraped off the top afterwards, thus leaving a gapless finish. I know pictures can be misleading but it looks to me as though you didn't put nearly enough glue into your joints, it should squeeze out of the joint as you pull it up tight.
> Anyway, hope you find some of this of interest, I am really enjoying your build, be pleased to see it up and running.
> Neil.



Neil

I am thinking of using the same flooring, so would like to pick your brain. The explanation on fitting you give is completely consistent with the data sheet on the Caber website. However, they also advocate either glueing to joists or using secret nailing. That seems to suggest to me that with the floor permanently tied to joists there is no scope for the floor to move, so in this case and expansion gap around the perimeter would serve no purpose. Is that correct? If it is correct, how would you approach an installation where the floor is glued in line with manufacturer's instructions, but left floating on insulation, as in Steve's installation? Is an expansion gap around the perimeter necessary then or is the flooring so stable as to not require one?

Terry.


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## Steve Maskery

The first job today was to see just how salvageable my floor is. I'm relieved to report that It does look as if all is going to be OK. That dark patch you can see is just grout dust swept up from the four boards you see in the picture. So a good scrub with a towel will sort it out, I am sure.












I was going to fit the skirting next, but I plan to have a small kitchen unit in the back corner, so it seemed sensible to fit that first. I'm a bit reluctant to admit that I went to B&Q. I asked the NYL what the thickness of the back panel was. 8mm, apparently. I thought that would be pretty robust so I bought a 1000mm and a 500mm unit and came home.

Well what can I say? It is adequate. No more. There are chips in the melamine and the first cam I put in just broke as I tightened it, and I wasn't being heavy handed. They are made of cheese. But at least nothing was missing. TBH it looks as if it an ex-display model, even though it was in a sealed box. And oh yes, the back panel is 3mm hardboard, not 8mm.






Included was a Customer Care card, so I rang the number. It goes to Norwood, who make for B&Q. The phone was answered almost immediately by a NYM who expressed his condolences. Apparently it is only the Cooke and whatever-it-is range that has 8mm backs. Anyway, he is sending me a spare cam and a replacement drawer support piece, which was the most badly damaged piece.

It'll do, and is was inexpensive, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
--------------------------------------------------
Now then, I could do with your advice.

There is some discussion above about the clearances at the edges of the floor. When we laid it, we kept 11mm at the edges






but already, the gap is smaller along the back wall. Here it is about 8mm






So it has already expanded a bit. I'm wondering if I should trim it back. I've been given a door trimmer thing, a cross between a router and a circular saw. I've not used it, and neither had the guy who gave it to me, but I think it would do the job quite well. Should I go to the trouble?
--------------------------------

It will be easier to fit the skirting if the architrave is fixed first, so in order to do that I had to line the door first. I have lots and lots of spare T&G cladding, so it made sense to use that. There isn't quite enough width to line the whole doorway with the flat part, so I kept the scooped out bit to the front But this means that I have to scribe at the corners. To do that I mitred then first and then cut to the line created. The tapered face is because I didn't have the saw blade perfectly vertical.





















I had to clean out the other side as I'd squirted a load of PU foam into the gap. Messy, isn't it?

And so, as the afternoon drew to a close, I decided I wanted to put up one piece of architrave, just to see what it would look like. I did and it shall look good when it is finished. But when I came to fit the top piece, I found that it is not long enough. It's long enough for a door up to 33" wide, but mine is 36", and so it is too short. Never mind, I thought, I have a bit of architrave left over from doing the roof. It's wood rather than MDF, but no matter. Until I put them both together and found that although they are both torus, they are not from the same cutter and therefore will not mitre properly. It's too late to take the first piece off as it is glued as well as pinned, but I think I can salvage it. I'll tell you how if it works!


----------



## Racers

That floor is looking a lot better now Steve.

Pete


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## Graham Orm

Architrave Steve. I always start with the head. That way you can get the reveal back to the casing exact on each leg and the head. Mitre Bond is a good idea too to avoid them opening up. Can't say I've ever glued them on.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm beginning to regret blogging all this, it illuminates my ignorance too much...
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Incidentally, it was 10 deg C when I went in late morning and it was still 10 when I left. I didn't have the heating on at all. It was OK for working in. Given that it's a couple of days since any heating at all has been on, I'm quite pleased with that.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":btek60ek said:


> I'm beginning to regret blogging all this, it illuminates my ignorance too much...
> S



Steve, if anyone claims to know everything about any trade he's a liar. Take a look at my signature comment, Everyone is learning all the time....usually after doing it wrong at least once!

You've done a superb job, and I for one have learned from following the thread!


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":3pmnbxy9 said:


> The first job today was to see just how salvageable my floor is. I'm relieved to report that It does look as if all is going to be OK...
> 
> There is some discussion above about the clearances at the edges of the floor. When we laid it, we kept 11mm at the edges...
> 
> ...but already, the gap is smaller along the back wall. Here it is about 8mm
> 
> 
> 
> So it has already expanded a bit.



Steve

Now the grout has had time to dry it looks much, much better. Looks like the only casualty was the saucepan.

And, given your floor has already expanded, seems a pretty clear answer that the gaps around the edge are necessary. But just for my idle curiosity I'd be interested how this floor works when glued or nailed in place, given the movement you have experienced already.

Terry.


----------



## StevieB

Hi Steve - just for reference, after loads of looking/research on my kitchen before I fitted it, Wickes were the only people I could find that did 18mm backs (same thickness as the sides) and this was from their ordered rather than 'off-the-shelf' range. B&Q kitchens were awful (the showroom ones in my local store were not even put together properly) Homebase were extortionately priced even in the sale. Ikea were OK but too modern in style for our house and Howdens I didn't get to see as SWMBO liked the Wickes one before I got that far (and you need a trade account with them also).

Steve


----------



## Eric The Viking

Totally agree about B+Q flat-pack. 

I ordered one tall cupboard split vertically (two doors) a few years back. After three deliveries (IIRC, one rejected at the front door because the packaging was so damaged) they couldn't produce one that wasn't damaged. They took months to produce two doors, that were ONLY damaged in ways I could hide. 

The whole experience was staggeringly awful. Never again.


----------



## Mark A

I bought three 1000mm base units from B&Q for storage in my garage. For the price I paid (around £30 each with Tradepoint discount) I don't think they're too bad. But then I wasn't expecting much in the first place.


----------



## Eric The Viking

One's mileage does vary ;-)


----------



## Mark A

=D>


----------



## Steve Maskery

The first job today was to sort out the outside lights. It took us all morning, but we did eventually find out what the problem was. The feed from the distribution board to the switch was damaged and it was shorting. I guess we have managed to put a nail or a screw through it somewhere. The ends were connected correctly but it was definitely that section of wiring. Unfortunately we couldn't pull it out, it was jammed, which would also be consistent with it being pierced somewhere. So we simply cut it off flush inside and out and replaced it with a new piece. Anyway, all is well now.

After lunch we turned our attention to the expansion gap. I've been given this:






It's for trimming doors and I had thought of using vertically against the wall to trim the flooring back. But it is difficult to open the blade guard in that orientation and given that it looks like a power tool from the 1960s (it's metal-bodied and so is not double-insulated, so how long ago was that practice ended?), neither Ray nor I wanted to use it in a way in which it was not intended.

So instead we used my track saw






We could get it as close as we could to the wall and we were left with a 15mm or so gap. Plenty of room for expansion, but it will not show when the skirting is on. So with the perimeter fixed, or at least as much of it as we had access to, we could start to fix the skirting. I scribed the short piece for the front and Ray glued it in place.











When it was caulked and cleaned up it looks like this






I need to get the rest of the door trim done before I can fix any more skirting.


----------



## Graham Orm

Looking mint Steve.


----------



## The Bear

Skirting board in a workshop, now that is posh !

Mark


----------



## paulm

Nice neat job Steve, looking good 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Mcluma

looks good


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

I must be missing something......why did you need to pare back the floor before fitting the skirting? You had already left an expansion gap hadn't you. The skirting would cover the old and now the new wider gap so I'm confused at the step with the tracksaw in widening the gap?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Rob
The point is that there had already been some expansion. In some places there was very little gap left. Not quite touching the wall, but in a couple of places not very far off.
So if the expansion is not yet complete, or if it goes a bit more when the weather warms up, then the gap could do with being a bit bigger, hence the trim. I had a conversation with Eric the Viking last week and he commented that he thought I should be more generous with my allowance, so, as it was not a difficult thing to do and better safe than sorry, etc...


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Gotcha...I had assumed that but just checking my maths


----------



## Steve Maskery

You when sometimes things seem to be against you and then it turns out for the best? Well today has been such a day. Well, the afternoon has anyway. I've had two really lousy nights sleep and I had to do something far less pleasant than potter in my workshop this morning, so I didn't really get going until lunchtime.

But off I went to the timber yard just down the road to see about getting some architrave for the double doors. Unfortunately, although they arrive in 5-point-something-metre lengths, they then get cut up into sets I have a 3' man-door and the top piece is just a tad too short.







It's very annoying, because there was a couple of inches spare on each upright, and if I'd started with the original length it would have worked out fine. So I was hoping to find some uncut lengths and also find some the right length for my double doors. 'Twas not to be.

So I went off to another timber yard not far away, but they are not really a retail merchant, they supply lorry loads to the retails guys. But the chap there was very helpful and asked me if I had tried Jet Joinery Supplies in Kirkby. Well I'd never heard of them, but it turns out they are only a mile or so away from where I live, so off I toddled to them.

Small, but well-stocked and a very helpful young chap behind the counter, who happily sold me three lengths of torus architrave to the lengths I require. Unfortunately it is not exactly the same profile as the existing, so I can't just cut another length for the top of the man door but it will do just fine for the double doors. The other very satisfying thing is that they sell hardwoods. They don't have huge stocks, but they has some oak, ash and beech in, as well as some very nice looking Douglas Fir. And they sell the PVA glue that I like as well. Recently I've either been buying it from Axi, or getting my mate Jim to pick up a bottle from Turners Retreat, which is close to where he lives. But it is expensive. These guys sell it and the price is very good too. So I would call that a result.

So, with some architrave work to sort out, I started on my Cunning Plan. First I stuck two pencils up my nose and marked out around the light switch. Unfortunately the jigsaw makes a bit of a mess of the white primer, but it will need to be painted anyway.






Then I cut the top piece in half. Yes, really. This is from the if-you-can't-hide-it-make-a-feature-of-it school of thought. I cut a keystone shape from a bit of flooring with the intention of making a sort of art deco look. Then I made a stupid schoolboy mistake, I mitred the architrave the wrong way. Not what you want to do when you are already short of material, so the keystone has had to be made somewhat wider than the narrow elegant one I had intended. But I think it will look fine when painted up and I might even do the same on the double doors, even though I don't have to.






I trimmed out the lining of the double doors, 






but I'd had enough, even though I had such a late start. So more architrave and skirting tomorrow, I guess.


----------



## Woodchips2

Good bit of innovation Steve =D> 

Another trick is to cut the top first, then if you are a bit short on the two uprights put a couple of plinth blocks on the bottom.

Regards Keith


----------



## StevieB

How many times are you going to catch something on the bottom of the keystone before you trim it flush with the architrave Steve?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'll keep a tally...


----------



## Eric The Viking

Steve Maskery":18i67218 said:


> I'll keep a tally...



Is that an old Nottinghamshire term for a hard hat?

I likes to keep me banter correct... :wink: 

E.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It may not look a lot different, I admit, but I've done quite a bit today.

I finished the architrave, although, TBH I wish I'd waited until Ray, or at least another pair of hands, came along. Handling the long top piece of the double doors was tricky on my own. I chickened out of duplicating the keystone...

But once the architrave was up, I could fix the skirting on the front wall. But when I looked at the gap, I was surprised to see that the uder-layer of OSB was hard against the sole plate, or at least, it was was well under the plasterboard.






So I decided I should trim that too. But it did occur to me that that there were cables in the floor at some point along the length. Unfortunately I could not remember where we had laid them, but fortunately I had taken a photograph or two...






So I could trim it back without having a big bang.

It was a ot more difficult than I thought, my cheap Lidl multitool is apparently made of cheese, so it has no effect on OSB. Anyway, I eventually managed it. 

Finally I did a bit of caulking around the architrave and the gaps where the floor meets the door frames.






So, not very exciting, I admit, but a decent job, I think.

S


----------



## Racers

You are making progress slowly but surely Steve, time to build the big doors?

Pete


----------



## Eric The Viking

Steve Maskery":3nduo3ha said:


> It was a lot more difficult than I thought, my cheap Lidl multitool is apparently made of cheese, so it has no effect on OSB. Anyway, I eventually managed it...



I bought a couple of aftermarket blades for the Bosch GOP thingy recently. 

I was pleased wth myself until they turned up: teeth not hardened, and crucially much thicker steel. OK they are sharp and they do cut (and they can be resharpened), but it's no dfferent to a tablesaw, in that the thicker kerf means more power needed to cut along any given line. In the GOP case, that means the battery goes flat faster, which is annoying.

Two of the Bosch blades that came with the tool blunted very quickly. One, a wide saw, supposedly good for both metal and wood, went 
so fast, I'd lost all of the teeth (except for grooves between where they weren't) before I realised why it was getting hard to use! Oddly, re-cutting teeth with a needle file has worked well - the new teeth are doing better than the originals.

These people have been recommended on here in the past: http://www.saxtonblades.co.uk. I have yet to try them, but will do this week as a fresh set is overdue.


----------



## shipbadger

I'll also give a vote for Saxton blades, use them exclusively now. Worth getting on their mailing list as they often have worthwhile bundles of blades at a good saving. Incidentally if you grind all the teeth off a blunt blade and give it a slight edge you have yourself a wallpaper or paint stripper.

Tony Comber


----------



## Graham Orm

shipbadger":19fmso7o said:


> I'll also give a vote for Saxton blades, use them exclusively now. Worth getting on their mailing list as they often have worthwhile bundles of blades at a good saving. Incidentally if you grind all the teeth off a blunt blade and give it a slight edge you have yourself a wallpaper or paint stripper.
> 
> Tony Comber


+1 For Saxton. I've added myself to their mailing list too now. Thanks Badger.


----------



## memzey

+1 for Saxton blades. That's all I use in my Fein now. They may only last half as long as the Fein original blades but they only cost about an eighth to buy so they are still great value!


----------



## lurker

Racers":go2k2s5w said:


> You are making progress slowly but surely Steve, time to build the big doors?
> 
> Pete



Steve,

When you do the doors, I have a pile of heavy duty 4" brass butt hinges and loads of door furnitue including mortice locks if you want them
I think I have a paired set of locks so you could fit two upper and lower


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Jim
Thank you, that is very kind of you. I have hinges and actually I am thinking of doing without locks, just barring the whole thing inside, but if you have bolts then yes please. I could do with enough for 4 shutters as well as the double doors, top and bottom. If you have that lot in your dusty box under the bench then fantastic. Why not take a ride a couple of notches up the M1 one day, eh?
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've done a couple of little jobs since I last reported.

Over the weekend my mate Akram came over and we finished off the alarm installation. I've had an alarm in the building for a couple of weeks, but now there is also a siren in the house. When it goes off down there, it also goes off in the house. I hope there are no false alarms, it's horrible.

I've also made a power tower. Since we laid the floor, the power for the TS and PT have just been trailing out of a hole in the middle.






So I've made a sort of bollard. It's just biscuited together. The plywood is excellent quality but not external. I scrounged it from the building site when I got my insulation, but it's had to live outside under the eaves of the log cabin ever since. It means that some of it has got wet and the surface veneer has blistered quite badly. I tried to sand back to the sound stuff, but I ended up sanding it all off. So it does look a bit scruffy, but a coat of paint will sort that out. The flange on the bottom is so that I can screw it to my floor. I just need to make the top and drill a couple of access holes for the cables and then we can rewire the sockets onto the tower.






The main casualty of that was my finger, which I managed to get caught in the belt sander at the Community Workshop. It'll be fine in six months or so. How fast does fingernail grow? 

------------------------

The first job this morning was to go shopping for guttering. We need to move that pile of wood that is sitting in front of the workshop so that we can dig up the garden, so we thought we could store it behind the workshop, out of the way. Installing the guttering there means that we can cover it with a tarp and it should stay reasonable dry, without half of the roof water dripping on it constantly. At the moment there is no soakaway for it, but the BH corner of the garden is quite a bit lower than the rest of the garden, so we are just letting it go there for the moment.

We started by fixing up the down pipe in the far RH corner and working out how much we needed to get from the corner of the walls to the corner of the roof.






As this is the lower end of the run, we installed our first bracket, ensuring that we would be able to make the other end a bit higher.






Then we set up a builder's line between the first and last bracket and screwed up all the brackets. The lengths are 20mm over 4m, so we have a union about half way. 






When we got to the end, though, would you believe it, we were about 6" too short.






But eventually it was all done and we tested it with a watering can. It all ran out. Slowly, but none was left sitting in the gutter. Ray pronounced himself pleased with it, and if it's good enough for Ray, it's good enough for me.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Well done. 

I hate doing guttering off a ladder (and I don't enjoy it much off a scaffold, for that matter).


----------



## AES

Steve, the "power tower" looks like a good idea and I'm sure it will do "the woodworking palace" full justice once it's painted.

This may be a "carp" idea (probably is), but FWIW, why not fill the bottom of the tower with a few bricks or something else weighty, mount some small castors underneath the base, then you can move the tower around to meet the various machines? I appreciate that the main power lead in has to come out of a central point on the floor somewhere, but if the tower's not fixed in just one place then the number of leads you have trailing around the floor will be reduced to just the one, no? 

Just an idea ...........

Krgds
AES


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Andy
I see what you are saying, but I'm trying to reduce the number of trailing cables. I have loads of sockets around the room, so it's just the centre that needs to be serviced. As the TS and PT are not going to be wheeled around, I think that a fixed supply will be the best solution Of course, if, in the course of time, I discover that I've put the TS in completely the wrong place, then I'll have to do something about it, but at the mo the Workshop Essentials Power Tower (WEPT for short, TM, all rights reserved) will service the TS, PT and DX.


S


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## xy mosian

I recall that the Woodwork Room at the school I to had mains isolating thump switches about the room.
I wonder if the tower might have one on top for ease of access, if only for the connected machines.
xy


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## Steve Maskery

We have a couple of those in the Community Workshop. But I think that they are there mainly for the teacher to shut everything down if he sees something dodgy being done. I don't see how that would hep me on my own. Plus, the power tower will be fairly enclose by the TS and the PT (ooh, that's confusing - is a PT a Planer/Thicknesser or a Power Tower?).

It might well have been a good idea to have one or two as part of the original wiring but I think it's a bit late now.

Might be something for others to consider on future builds?


----------



## xy mosian

Steve Maskery":19dbraqf said:


> a couple of those in the Community Workshop. But I think that they are there mainly for the teacher to shut everything down if he sees something dodgy being done. I don't see how that would hep me on my own. Plus, the power tower will be fairly enclose by the TS and the PT (ooh, that's confusing - is a PT a Planer/Thicknessrer or a Power Tower?).
> 
> It might well have been a good idea to have one or two as part of the original wiring but I think it's a bit late now.
> 
> Might be something for others to consider on future builds?



Fair enough Steve. 
xy


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## deema

Rather late suggestion apologies. Power sockets on the roof are I believe the best solution with trailing leads down to the machines clipped to rigid poles. Easy to relocate when the Workshop needs a move around after a new machine purchase and cuts down in trip hazards. My power normally follows the extraction down from the ceiling. The extraction pipe makes a great place for leading the power around the shop, and will always go to a machine.


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## Noggsy

If you had a South American working with you and he built one, it would be Jésus' WEPT. 

I'll get me coat...


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## Steve Maskery

Indeed. And in fact, a bloke called Jesus recently subscribed to me on YouTube!


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## Steve Maskery

Ray came today to help shift a large pile of over-bought timber that was sitting in the middle of the garden, where we need to create a soakaway. The weather was miserable, butt freezing, but cold and wet. I asked him to give me a hand with the extenal door lining first. It's not difficult, but an extra pair of hands makes it much easier, especially for the top. I have lots of cladding, so it made sense to use some of it.







This is a jolly good way of keeping my panel pins to hand






The double doors don't have a rebate onto which they can close, yet, so it was time to rip some. That very nice man RogerS has sent me some draught excluder strip stuff, but it is designed to fit into a 1/8" groove. Someone has relieved me of all my 1/8" saw blades, but I do still have a thin kerf Freud. So we just had to take two passes instead of one.






We have left the pin a bit proud so that they are easy to remove when I make the doors proper. I have discovered that, whilst the doorway is nice and vertical, it is a bit skew-whiff in the aperture of the building. The result is that the trim along the top needs to be tapered by about 8mm along its length if it is to be flush all along the front. I've had this problem on both the inside and the outside, naturally enough. A bit of careless work, I'm afraid. But it will look OK once it is painted, I'm sure.






So that took us to lunch. We then shifted everything that was here






to here






So now we have access to the garden if we ever get in the mood for digging a long trench and a very big hole.....


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## Max Power

Hope your sub-soils not clay Steve. I ended up digging down ten ft and it still filled up with water. Installed a pump in the end to empty the soak-way which does a great job , but of coarse you then need somewhere to run the pipe from the pump to


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## lurker

Steve Maskery":1nujxldk said:


> Indeed. And in fact, a bloke called Jesus recently subscribed to me on YouTube!



You would think after all this time ( must be coming up to 2000 years assuming he started his apprenticeship at 15) he would know all he needs to know about carpentry, just goes to show you never stop learning.


----------



## AES

Nah, that's his (virtually unknown) son Lurker!

After his Dad's unfortunate demise he carried on the family business alone but he was always rather pineappled off that he never got all the media attention that his Dad got. So he's signed up for Steve's Youtube channel (knowing that Steve definitely IS media-savvy) hoping to pick up a few tricks - woodwork or video, who knows - from an acknowledged master!

:lol: 

AES


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I put up the first lengths of French cleats along the west wall. I'd ripped them the last time Ray was here, but not yet put them up. The are ripped to produce a 30 deg bevel. Most people would have done it at 45 deg, but I have the 5/8" arbor installed and it is longer than the standard 30mm arbor. The result is that it fouls the underside of the insert plate, preventing it from being tilted a full 45 deg. I can't understand it, as this is a US-style saw, and 5/8" has been a standard arbor size for years. But I can only get a full 45 deg tilt if I lower the blade or use the shorter 30mm arbor. I do still have the arbor, but all my 30mm saw blades were taken in the raid, so I have only the blade that was on the machine.

It would be easier with two, but I managed by using a stick to fix its position up the wall. Once the middle screw is in it's easy to do the others.






Prompted by phaedrus' thread about his tablesaw, I ferreted about in the log cabin for the remains of the kick-board that used to be on mine. It was rather scruffy after 2 years in a barn, but it cleaned up surprising well. The original red hand was broken, but the hinges weren't rusty and the board itself was OK. It was mounted on the wheel-base, but as the TS is now sitting firmly on the floor I had to find a way of mounting it directly onto the front of the saw.

I started with a piece of plywood and drew round my hand. Then I sawed it out. Yes I do know that that is nowhere near the right sized blade for the job. I just nibbled away,






and painted it red






Because the switch is mounted on the front of the saw and is quite deep, the kick-board needs to be mounted quite a way off the cabinet base, so I found a piece of pallet wood. I've no idea what it is, but it cleaned up surprisingly nicely. You can see the difference between the original and the prepped piece at the back, which is screwed to hinges of the kick-board itself.






I notched out the ends and drilled mounting holes. I then drilled through them 




and drilled and tapped two M6 holes in the cabinet. Because they are so close to the floor, I had to remove one arm of the tap wrench and turn it like you would a nut with a spanner. 






Although the tapped holes were fine I made a mess of the position of them. Somehow I got them about 2mm too close together, so I had to enlarge the holes in the wood to make up for it. Fortunately I could lay my hands on a couple of penny washers, so all the evidence of engineering incompetence is hidden

So with the kick-board screwed on, I fixed a piece of string through the kick-board and through a screw-eye which is attached to the front panel of the cabinet. This stops the kick-board from falling forward.






Then the Hand is screwed on so that it covers, but does not interfere with the operation of, the stop button.

So now I can switch off my saw with by knee or my foot




.

I'd still got another hour or so of useable daylight, so I finished trimming the doorway outside and painted the power tower ready for installation next time Ray comes.

I wanted to continue working for as long as possible, mainly because I have entered into a pact with Akram. He smokes and I complain about that. I drink too much and he complains about that. So we are having an indulgence-free weekend, no fags for him and no booze for me, from midnight Friday to midnight Sunday. I'm sitting here with OJ and soda. It really isn't the same, is it? It's going to be a loooong evening.


----------



## lurker

Clever! 
I will make myself one of those (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've been busy at the Community Workshop today. It was packed and my expertise, such as it is, was in great demand. However, there was someone else there to help out today, so I did have a bit of time to do something for myself.

My vice was looking very sorry for itself having spent two years in the barn and it was seized up. I had managed to open it up a bit by squirting in a load of WD40, but it was hardly useable. I took these pictures with my phone and they make it look not too bad. I assure you it was a mess. The flash hides a lot of the rust.











BUt I did get it apart and spent an hour with emery cloth, wire wool and a polishing wheel.











I now slides beautifully and I am very pleased. Ray's here tomorrow.


----------



## Racers

Nice work Steve, weren't you tempted to swap it for the one in the background ;-)

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Absolutely not! The vices in the CW are old, worn, small and generally useless! This one is new, or at least I bought it new some time in the last 20 years. I had my granddad's Parkinson before that, but it was old and worn and everything seemed to slip in it, no matter how tightly I tried to grip anything.


----------



## Philbo

Hi Steve,

Long time reader, first time poster, I just wanted to say that I finally finished reading through this entire thread last week and it has been a joy to read!

Thanks for taking the time to share it, you must be well chuffed! =D>


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Philbo, welcome to the forum and I'm delighted you have enjoyed reading this thread. It's been good for me too.

Ray turned up this morning armed with shovels and mattock. Before I knew it he was digging up my back yard. It's not posh enough to call a patio and as it never ever gets the sun you wouldn't really want to sit out there anyway. At the mo the electricity supply is temporarily tapped off the log cabin, but I want it to come directly off the main distribution board in the house. I'm going to take water down there whilst we are at it.






Ray did the digging, I carried the stuff away in buckets. We had 4 piles, sand, M1 stone, soil, and brick rubble. There were bricks because we were digging through what was originally the outside privvy. Some of my neighbours still have the buildings standing, but mine has been demolished before my time. I don't understand why, but we dug up not only original bricks, but a number of modern bricks as well as some bits of modern stone, the reconstituted stuff, bits of breeze block and big round stones such as you might find on the beach. And of course, there was the obligatory ration of plastic, carpet and bits of child's bike.

We have to go down between 400 and 700mm:






Whilst Ray was digging, I wasn't just standing around with the camera, I shifted a pile of the green rocks from the head of what was once a waterfall, which we are going to have to dig right through, and made three trips to the tip with rubble and clay. There is not a lot of clay here, it is good soil with sand underneath, but there was a pond and that has been lined with clay. So as the light was beginning to go, and even Ray had had enough, we measured up. 9m of trench, out of 24 needed.





S


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## NickWelford

Wow! Looks like a good days work there.


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## Graham Orm

You'll both sleep tonight! I'll be following this bit with more interest than usual. You're doing what I did last summer but haven't run a new cable through the duct yet. I have pipe and ducting poking up at both ends of the garden.......You first Steve!

PS. In case you hadn't thought of it, I used a ring spanner tied to the end of the rope to drop it down each piece of duct (rainwater pipe). I ran 2 ropes through with the intention of leaving one there for later requirements.


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## Halo Jones

Hi Steve,

I hate digging trenches! If I remember water pipe and cat 5 are meant to be buried a certain distance from swa (300mm?). Also if swa is in a conduit (ie plastic pipe) then it is down rated (I assume because it cannot dissipate heat as easily into surrounding soil). Maybe worth looking this up just now before you fill everything in?

Making superb progress.

H.


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## Steve Maskery

Thank you for that, I'll check tomorrow. I got the 400 - 700mm figure from my tame plumber, but he may not have taken into consideration the three together. I'll ring the BCO.
TVM
Steve


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## Doug B

It used to be 2'6" for a water pipe Steve, the last main I put in was 12 years ago & I'm not in a hurry to do another.


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## Halo Jones

I think 700 mm is correct for the depth of the water pipe (however, I found my mains water pipe buried - by professionals - at about 200)!


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## Steve Maskery

I shall definitely check - I don't want to have to do it twice!

Though it's hardly a main - it's just going to an outside tap. But maybe that doesn't make a difference.


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## Graham Orm

It's to do with freezing Steve. In 1963 4" pipes froze 3 feet down. 2'6" was the standard when I was an apprentice. We had a notch cut out of the spade handle.


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## Brentingby

Steve Maskery":26xdyc6m said:


> I got the 400 - 700mm figure from my tame plumber...



What does your wild plumber have to say?


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## n0legs

Halo Jones":1w534r2r said:


> Also if swa is in a conduit (ie plastic pipe) then it is down rated (I assume because it cannot dissipate heat as easily into surrounding soil)
> 
> H.



This is correct.
If you are using brand new SWA and you take care not to knick or tear through the outer pvc, then the best install would be lay the cable into the trench which has been "blinded" with a few inches of stone dust (not sand as sand insulates the cable far better than stone dust thus keeping the cable warm).
Make a good job of keeping the cable in the middle of the trench, then cover the cable with at least 6" of stone dust. 
Compact the dust then lay a marker tape stating "Electric Cable Buried Below" or similar. I like a 6" by 3 foot path edges personally, but I play with bigger cables :wink: 
Grade your backfill, no big stones or bricks, and fill the trench.
This bit is optional, 
I have never ever liked the use of the steel wire armouring as the CPC (circuit protective conductor) A.K.A the earth.
I consider it to be bad practice. Steel does not have the same conductivity as copper, if the outer sheath gets torn or damaged the risk of corrosion in the armour is high and therefore the earthing will be compromised. Sometimes earth continuity is lost completely.
Poor workmanship in installing the glands can also be an issue.

Use a 3 core SWA cable of a suitable size, use 2 cores for phase (live) and neutral and the third as the earth. The other option is to run a separate earth alongside the SWA but care needs to be taken in choosing one that is sized properly and suitable for direct burial in the ground. A PVC/PVC type would be the best bet for this method (2 layers of pvc sheathing).

Building entry would be best done below the surface, just don't make the hole to small. Get a good neat hole in the house wall and then seal it with a quality sealant. 
Duct into the house would be the best, it stops nasty chaffing to the outer sheath and is easier to seal well. Push a washing up sponge into the duct at least an inch below the surface, then use a sealant to "cap off" the duct.

24 metres of trench !! Should have been done before lunch :lol: 
Good work guys, nearly there =D>


----------



## Steve Maskery

n0legs":7asj4ong said:


> [
> 
> 24 metres of trench !! Should have been done before lunch :lol:



You are welcome to come and give a hand...

Thank you for all that, I'll pass it on to the Boss.
S


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Some good advice from nOlegs there, use a 3 core SWA cable, don't mess around with the separate CPC or relying on the armouring.

I would be tempted to put a duct in, especially for the CAT 5 cable with a piece of rope for future use, rather than burying an armoured CAT 5 cable. Makes it easy in the future if there is a problem or you wish to add to it. If you pull an additional cable through add more rope so its there for the next time. Depending on what you intend to use it for consider upgrading to a CAT 6 cable.

Let me know if you need some tape for marking the trench.

Well done on the trench digging, not the most fun job!


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## custard

I've got an armoured, buried Cat 5 cable to my workshop. 

Overall I'm happy with my workshop build but there are a few things I wished I'd done differently, smaller south facing windows, install a sink, and run the armoured cabling through a pipe.


----------



## yetloh

custard":2be52wgs said:


> install a sink



One of the best things I ever did in my workshop. And if it can have hpt as well as cold as mine does, so much the better. My sharpening station is right next to it - perfect, and that's just the workshop benefits. Coming indoors from the garden with clean hands and not messing up the indoor towels is another significant benefit in the domestic relations department.

Jim


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## Steve Maskery

I'd really like to do that. In fact I have already put a base unit in the far right corner. I've not discussed it with my BCO but I bet he will not allow me to drain waste water into the rainwater soakaway, which means I would have to store it in a caravan-style waste barrel or pump the waste water all the way back up the garden. I'm not going to do the latter, although the former would not be too onerous.

It's a pity, as there is a downpipe from the gutter just the other side of the wall....


----------



## Harbo

Does it matter what you do after things are signed off?


----------



## Graham Orm

Harbo":2rqr4w5x said:


> Does it matter what you do after things are signed off?



I was going to say that, but I've already had my wrist slapped for buying a dodgy DVD.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I couldn't possibly comment...


----------



## Doug B

As long as it's waste water & not soiled water it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had a reply from the BCO regarding depth - he couldn't care less. He says they are not bothered about services, it is drainage that concerns them. As long as the sparky signing it off is happy, then the BCO is happy.

So I rang sparky. 12". Well we have over 16, so it looks like everyone is happy.

So now I have asked the BCO about grey water going into the soakaway and am waiting a reply.

----------------
Ray came and continued digging whilst I was Gopher General. We'd been going about an hour when I got a call from my mate Stuart. Stuart used to live round the corner but last year emigrated to Whitby. Could he pop round? Well of course he could, he's a retired electrical engineer and there is work to be done...

So I put the kettle on and gave him a screwdriver.







and half an hour later that messy pile of cables in the middle of the floor looked like this:











We also got all the labels on the MCBs in the distribution box. The electrician is supposed to be coming next Wednesday to hook up into the house and, I hope, sign the job off. Everything else electrical is now done.

Meanwhile, out in the winter sunshine, Ray the Trojan kept digging.






But I was showing willing, too






We dug out the usual rubbish, bits of a bike, some reinforced glass, etc, etc, and a couple of concrete slabs in good condition, which were immediately put to good use






So now we have just got about 5m or so left to do tomorrow.


----------



## wcndave

I seriously need to get myself a Ray!


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":185jzn4i said:


> I've had a reply from the BCO regarding depth - he couldn't care less. He says they are not bothered about services, it is drainage that concerns them.



I'm struggling with that one Steve, if you bury a pipe/cable a spades depth down....ready for the next digger to hit, there's no problem?

Also....does Ray know just how famous he is?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was a bit surprised myself, TBH, but that was his response, so I'm not going to make a fuss. We are well down, in practice.

I'm trying to keep the publicity from Ray, he might increase his charges...

Actually keeping him oblivious isn't difficult. He doesn't do computers and he doesn't have a mobile phone. His wife is his technology consultant. I have, however, forwarded Dave's post, though, just for fun. I'll see them again this evening, we are all going to a pancake party..

S


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Hi Steve,
I have located the tape, pop it in the post tomorrow hopefully.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Great, thank you.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had a reply from the BCO. Waste from a wash hand basin should not be discharged into a soakaway.

So I either do without, or install a WHB and discharge into a caravan-style waste container. "Proper" drainage would have to be pumped uphill to the house and I'm not going to that trouble for such a small amount of water.


----------



## nanscombe

Washing up bowl for rinsing your hands and sling it on the garden when finished?

("finding", How on earth did I type that?)


----------



## Penny

Steve Maskery":1vue9y2e said:


> I've had a reply from the BCO. Waste from a wash hand basin should not be discharged into a soakaway.
> 
> So I either do without, or install a WHB and discharge into a caravan-style waste container. "Proper" drainage would have to be pumped uphill to the house and I'm not going to that trouble for such a small amount of water.



Odd thing, that.

Many caravan sites (especially on the continent) ask that you empty grey water into the bushes as it waters the plants, and the small amount of soap in it makes no odds. As long as there's no chemicals being poured into the sink I can't see the issue!


----------



## nanscombe

Perhaps it also depends on whether you've been washing brushes, with goodness knows what on them, or washing out containers in the wash basin as well.


----------



## wcndave

definitely put a sink in, one day... if you wash your hands, throw the water out, if you're washing something nasty, pour into container with funnel and take up the house. the convenience is worth it. In my old shed, I threw out so many brushes, brayer rollers and other things, never watered down paint etc... and now I have a sink it's made such a difference, I had no idea what I was doing without!


----------



## NickWelford

Talking about convenience, shouldn't you have a convenience, so to speak?


----------



## Steve Maskery

There is one in the log cabin, I don't need another outside the house.


----------



## AES

Are you THAT confident about your cooking Steve????

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

Krgds
AES


----------



## Steve Maskery

I spent the morning going to the tip. There were bags of clay to get rid of (from the pond lining) as well as a crate of brambles and ivy, and a tree root. It should have taken 20 mins max, but they shut the site just as I drew up to the entrance. It took ages for them to shuffle skips around inside, so by the time I had unloaded and been shopping for some bread and milk, the morning was nearly gone.

Meanwhile, guess what Ray was doing?







He'd finished the trench, including digging under one of the walls of the old privvy and also under the concrete that was up against the house. We had a complete trench.






I thought I'd better do something more than jut drive a car today, so I started at the workshop end. I needed to ease the concrete so that it does not chafe the cables as they go into the building. An angle grinder and chisel did the job in no time






I'd forgotten to allow for the Cat5 cable entry when I had started to clad the front, so a little demolition work was necessary. 






Then I drilled a hole through the OSB, being careful not to be heavy handed. I _think_ that the power cable goes up the side of the cavity, but I wasn't certain, so it was some careful poking about that determined that it was safe to drill straight through.






I'm going to run two Cat5e cables down. I'll probably only use one, but you never know. So we pulled out enough for the first run.






and rolled out enough MDPE to reach from the conservatory to the front of the workshop






But how to get the cable through the blue MDPE? First we tried just pushing the Cat5 though it. After a while it just snarled up. So we tried pushing a hosepipe down. 





Easy to start with but it got stiffer and stiffer and stiffer. In the end we gave up, Ray reckons he has something at home that will do the job.

So we finished off by lining the hole through the wall with a bit of hose pipe with a drawstring through it


----------



## Steve Maskery

There is enough at the house end to reach the conservatory, wherein I plan to install a wire bridge to collect the wifi signal from my house router. It's easier than getting a cable from the SW corner of the house to the NE corner, although I'm sure I shall pay a price in speed.






The MDPE was 50m of 25mm. I don't need 25mm dia for water, but it is ideal for a couple of Cat5 cables, and it was cheaper to get 50m of 25mm than 25m each of 20mm and 25mm. And there is just enough to do the Cat5 conduit and water to an outside tap on the front corer of the building. No waste at all really.

So this is what it looks like from upstairs. Ray called it a bomb-site.


----------



## Graham Orm

Why not use purpose made ducting in sections Steve, or rainwater pipe? I can't imagine you being able to get anything down that length of Alkathene. (MDPE)


----------



## Mark A

Thinking out loud...

Could you use a magnet to pull a nut with some thin string tied to it through the pipe?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I was assuming we would use rainwater pipe, but Ray reckoned...

We'll manage, somehow. If it was bigger we could suck a ping-pong ball through it. The ball carries a thread, the thread pulls a string, the string pulls a cable. We'll see.

S
PS Ooh, Mark, hadn't thought of that one. I think I might try it and tell Ray it was my idea


----------



## Woolf

Have used a vacuum with a piece of sponge cut to fit the inside of the pipe. Worked well


----------



## CHJ

If you have a compressor and air gun try blowing a piece of knotted string down the pipe, string needs to be free running but once it starts to flow it usually shoots through.

In the past I've used inline couplers to reduce the length into sections making it easier to pass primary lead cord through.


----------



## jpt

Back in the day when I worked in IT we used to use a plastic bag taped onto a piece of string with half of the bag open then blow it through with a compressor, worked every time.

john

PS, great thread I am enjoying it, just wish I could do the same.


----------



## Brentingby

Steve, if it isn't too late, and if there's room in there, pull an extra piece of heavy duty string just in case some day you need to pull another cable through. You might not ever need it but it won't get any easier to do it than it is now. There's a lubricant you can get that is designed for cable pulls that can make it easier to get the CAT5e through, too.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi B
Yes, that is the plan. I think I'll need only one cable, so one is a spare, but if ever there is any damage, I shall be glad of a draw-string.

I used to install Cat5, and once I got the job of installing a length of rectangular trunking under a floor from one end of a building to the other, so that BT could get their cable from the nearest point outside to the computer room. I laid it, with both a drawstring and another draw string to pull in with the cable as the original drawstring was being pulled out.

What did the dork do? He just pulled his cable in, using the drawstring, but not replacing it as he went. When he'd connected up both ends I asked him where the drawstring was. I told him I wouldn't sign off the job unless there a was a drawstring in the conduit at the end of the job just like there was at the start. I didn't have the authority to say that, and it wasn't me who was going to sign off the job, but he didn't know that.

I worked with quite a few BT engineers in those days, on different jobs. One guy was excellent. Professional, helpful, just the sort of guy you would want to be on the job. One. All the rest were, quite frankly, idiots. And if you are that one BT engineer, thank you, you were a pleasure to have on the team.


----------



## xy mosian

+1 with Woolf. 
In my case it was a ball of fluff tied to fine string.
xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'd just like to say Thank You for all the ideas and suggestions. I'll let you know how we get on, of course.

It will probably be next Wednesday before there is any more serious progress. Ray and the sparky are coming then (although the sparky was due a month ago for something else and never turned up), but I've been feeling rather odd lately. I slept the weekend away. I just didn't want to be awake. It was almost like the dark days of being on the pills, but I don't know why. Nothing dreadful has happened and the build itself is going well. But it's made me realise how fragile things can get for no apparent reason. I'm supposed to be out singing this evening, and I enjoy going, but I just can't summon up the energy. I hope this isn't a relapse, I thought I was out of the woods.
But if I can function, I can get on with making the windows.

Must try harder.
S

S


----------



## nanscombe

If you did have a waste tank couldn't use a submersible pump and a hose reel to pump the contents up to the house drain every now and then?

Hozelock 3 in 1 Water Butt Pump - £49.99


----------



## Noggsy

Steve, I hope you're ok mate. If I can suggest, get out for a brisk walk tomorrow and get some sun on your face. Sometimes, those tired episodes are a warning shot to make a bit of a change and there's nothing better than a bit of an endorphin hit. The build is coming on a treat and there was a definite hint of Spring in the air today.


----------



## brianhabby

Woolf":2tyl2nxa said:


> Have used a vacuum with a piece of sponge cut to fit the inside of the pipe. Worked well


I like that one, nice and simple.



Steve Maskery":2tyl2nxa said:


> Ooh, Mark, hadn't thought of that one. I think I might try it and tell Ray it was my idea


Good job Ray doesn't read these forums 

regards 

Brian


----------



## AES

Steve, I've just read your post about not feeling too good. Could I suggest a walk (just like the other poster suggested) perhaps with a pre-determined goal in mind, like a particularly nice drink of whatever you fancy at a great pub at the end of it?

It may also help that although all of us here on the Forum are eagerly anticipating your next move (your every move actually), in reality there is no real time pressure on you to finish by a certain date. You're so nearly there now, and have come such a long way, IMHO you can afford to take a day or two off now and again.

All the best.

"Gute Besserung".

Krgds
AES


----------



## Racers

Ups and downs Steve as you go you go on they even out, that's what I have found. 

Pete


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":3jffku67 said:


> I've been feeling rather odd lately. I slept the weekend away. I just didn't want to be awake.......... but I don't know why. Nothing dreadful has happened ........... I just can't summon up the energy. I hope this isn't a relapse.....



Snap! I'm wondering if it's the lack of traditional winter cold is making the short dark days more of a quagmire. Soon be longer days though.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve, I've been laid up for almost 3 weeks now. It started with the run down and zero energy feeling , then progressed to heavy flu. It's a real grinder, hope you're not sickening for it. Take vitamins to keep it at bay. The doc told me zinc and Vitamin C. The wife takes a vitamin pill every day (I didn't), and she's dodged it so I reckon there must be something in the theory.


----------



## cutting42

A slight modification to the string process. Use 10lb fishing line with a bit of rag or foam and a vacuum or a compressed air line. Fair whizzes through a bit of piping and is very smooth running and can pull quite a substantial bit of cord. I used paracord as it is flexible and incredibly strong.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I had a nice surprise this morning. An envelope turned up withsome bright yellow warning tape in it.
Many thanks to mindthatwatchout
S


----------



## NickWelford

When I was commissioning and testing IT systems and networks, the techies used a long thin bendy steel tape measure like thing about 5mm by 0.5mm to push down conduit.


----------



## n0legs

NickWelford":37mxktrt said:


> When I was commissioning and testing IT systems and networks, the techies used a long thin bendy steel tape measure like thing about 5mm by 0.5mm to push down conduit.



Fish tape.
Brilliant bit of kit.


----------



## nanscombe

Crikey, you can even buy a 20m roll of curtain wire!

Curtain Net Expanding Wire White 20 Metre 20M With 30 Hooks & 30 Eyes Cp


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I posted a few days ago that I'd been feeling a bit dodgy again. Today I woke feeling bright-eyed and bushy-tailed and was in the workshop by 9.30, without Ray being here. Unheard of.

I spent half an hour sweeping and generally clearing up. The space has got quite untidy, mainly due to having lots of room but nowhere to store anything.

I then turned my attention to prepping some fifths I bought a few weeks ago.

These are for the window frames, which are going to be just about as basic as it is possible to build. Each is a rectangular box that fits in the opening like a door lining. All the rebates and beads are going to be planted on.

I started with a problem. When I built the structure, the front was going to be just a wall and the natural light was going to be from skylights on the North side of the roof. The front windows were a later modification. But the studs and noggings were never positioned with the accuracy that one would use knowing that they were going to house window frames. So they are not square and they are not exactly the same size either. The biggest is 30mm wider than the smallest, I'm not sure how that happened!

There is also a small amount of lean on the building, a few mm, that's all, but it is there.

So I took the smallest height and the smallest width and prepped up some stuff.












I got my nice BJ out and did some very complicated joinery...











And before I knew it I had four window frames






But I am so out of practice. I forgot that the short pieces need to take into account the thickness of the sides, so I made them all too long. And there were a couple of pieces where the secondary face would be inside the frame and visible, rather than against the fabric of the building. And there are two pieces where I forgot to check that the reference end was already square when I was cutting to length. Basic errors. It's such a long time since I have done anything of note.

But the smell. Ah, the smell! The workshop smells of wood, and I love it. I have three large bags of waste and I am wondering how I can burn it in my wood burner in the lounge. It is intended to burn logs, not chippings. I'm considering ramming the stuff into tin cans and putting them in, so that it all burns a bit like a charcoal burner. Does anyone have any better ideas? I'm all ears.

Anyway, it has been a good day, no thought of an afternoon nap. The only downer has been the discovery that the glass is going to cost me £250. I didn't realise it was so expensive, it's been a long time since I have bought any.


----------



## williams1185

hi steve been following the build with great interest you have got a great man cave there ! you can burn the waste but only put it on when you light the stove and dont add any when its lit . that price seems a bit steep for glass is it double glazing your putting in the windows dont look that big ? regards ian


----------



## Steve Maskery

To be fair I've had only two quotes, but yes, that was the cheaper of the two so far. Also they do have to be toughened (because they are close to the door, at least two of them are) and I also want them tinted. They are south-facing and although I like natural light, I'm not very good at bright light. That's why you often see me in sunglasses, even when it is not sunny. So it all adds up.

The firm in Long Eaton, whom I have used a couple of times before over the last 20 years want half as much again. :shock: 

S


----------



## Woodmonkey

Stuffing paper bags with shavings is a good way to put them in the log burner.


----------



## Doug B

Steve you could use laminate instead of toughened, just check with the BCO.

Have you tried Byron Glass http://byronglass-mansfield.co.uk


----------



## Myfordman

Steve, Do you know anyone locally who makes doors and windows professionally? I ask because it seems there are quite considerable trade discounts in the glazing industry and even splitting the discount with him could save you quite a bit.

Good Luck

Bob


----------



## Graham Orm

Laminated will be dearer than TSG.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Byron were the cheaper of the two.


----------



## lurker

Are you committed to the exact window size?
I ask because I have access to piles of double glazed "units" that are on the way to landfill.
It's just a matter of waiting for suitable sizes to turn up


----------



## Steve Maskery

I am, really, Jim. 1318 x 508mm. If they just happen to turn up...
S


----------



## Doug B

Graham Orm":3h23imth said:


> Laminated will be dearer than TSG.




Not in my experience.

If you want me to get you a quote Steve PM me your sizes & quantity.

Also beware of second hand units, if they are toughened you won't be able to cut them down.


----------



## JakeS

Steve Maskery":18lbmxwh said:


> I also want them tinted.



I don't know how this is usually done, but in case it's useful: the last place I worked had put a kind of self-adhesive foil on the windows. It was supposed to cut down on reflections on computer monitors, but it reduced harsh light in general, and looked like a two-way mirror from the outside of the building. I heard at the time it was a cheaper alternative to putting non-standard glass in.


----------



## Ring

Buy clear glass then use the window tint film from lidl works great.
Jim


----------



## shipbadger

Steve,

If you search the internet you will find all sorts of window films are available, they're not all designed just for turning your ordinary car into something the drug dealer in the corner of the car park drives! I think your windows face the house so you need to remember that films that look silver or gold from the outside will act a mirrors and you may not want this when stood looking out of the kitchen. Applying them, like most things, has a knack but the better suppliers should provide full instructions.

Tony Comber


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm not really trying to make it impossible to see in from outside, I'm trying to avoid being dazzled when I'm working. I plan to have shutters on the outside anyway, but I prefer some natural when working, especially at the bench. But I am very sensitive to bright light, so I want to get this right.

We had all the windows at the Community Workshop replaced last summer. They are now black. You can see in omly when standing close and peering in. But we can see out easily from inside. That would be ideal.


----------



## lurker

Steve Maskery":jieuyacq said:


> But I am very sensitive to bright light, so I want to get this right..



Steve not trying to be funny but have you had your eyes tested recently?
I was an habitual sunglasses wearer until I had my eyes tested and started wearing prescription specs.


Plus one for film on standard glass


----------



## Steve Maskery

lurker":3nmeykg3 said:


> Steve not trying to be funny but have you had your eyes tested recently?



LOL! Only every few months since the age of 5!


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

If you stuff the shavings into cardboard tubes from kitchen or loo rolls or present wrapping paper they become "logs" and burn well in the stove.


----------



## JakeS

Steve Maskery":2tgrg4ij said:


> I'm not really trying to make it impossible to see in from outside, I'm trying to avoid being dazzled when I'm working.



That's exactly what the film on my ex-office windows was for. The sign outside on the road made it pretty clear that it was a software company and the building would be full of expensive computer equipment, the film was just there to make it possible to make software in the middle of winter with the sun low in the sky!


----------



## wcndave

I also have film on my office windows, works well - lots of different grades / reflectiveness etc, and you can replace it / darken it etc if you get it wrong, better than replacing glass.

I missed a few pages, but regarding cabling, all my electricians, and the telecoms guys had a reel of metal cable which they used for feeding wire, I am surprised that none of your BT lot etc had one, and that you can't borrow one from someone... 

If you're going to bridge wifi then you may well have a device with only one eth port, so I would run one cat5. then use a mini hub at the other end if you really need it.

I know you've probably been here, but if you have the chance, use cat7, it's £1 pm and better now than later.

Having said that, if you have a wifi bridge it's not going to make much difference, is there really no way to get cable all the way? A wifi bridge will not only affect speed (with wifi n in real life you'll be at 45Mbps max, halved for the two way = 20Mbps, best case), but also latency, security, power consumption etc...

Probably not your highest priority, just my IT takes equal priority with the woodworking ;-)


----------



## Steve Maskery

My bro rang last week.

"I've had a flyer from Costco. They have some steel cabinets in, I'm thinking of getting one for my garage, what do you think?"

Well they looked good, 96 Lin Bins in the doors, plenty of shelf space. I'll think about it.

"They've also got rolling tool chests. 17 drawers."

Hmm, very nice. A lot of money, but I have to store my tools somewhere and if I made a 17-drawer cabinet, I'd probably spend close to that just on materials.

Fast forward to Saturday:
"We are on our way to Costco in Derby. Do you want to meet us there?"

So off I toddles to Derby, only to find that they had sold out of the cabinets, but the rolling tool chests were in and they looked very nice indeed. Too big to fit in my car though. I'll have a think.

Sunday:
"We are in Costco in Birmingham. They have the cabinets and they are £60 cheaper than in the flyer. I've got the van, do you want one?"

So he brings this cabinet up from Brum, 


















then drives me to Derby to get the rolling chest. 











The weather was filthy, the cabinets weigh a tonne and I was very glad that I have a dolly to help roll them down the garden. I very nearly returned it to its owner last week, so was very glad I didn't. I don't know how we would have managed without it.

The rolling chest is superb. The cabinet is heavyweight, but the workmanship is a bit sloppy. The doors do not line up. Not even close. 






So I have some very nice storage and a rather lighter bank account as well as the national collection of cardboard packaging.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Sparky has been today. We used a roll of his wire to act as a draw wire through the conduit.






We discovered that we were a tad short of pipe. 






We've extended the Cat5 conduit with a bit of white pipe I scrounged some months ago.






So, keeping the power and Cat5 as far apart as we could, we sprinkled in a bit of dirt, then covered over with old slates from when Ray did his barn roof. These should stop any enthusiastic digger from doing much damage.











Then a warning, courtesy of MindThatWhatOuch






Meanwhile, Darren the Spark was busy drilling holes in walls and hauling cable through. I thought I'd been generous in my length, but in fact he had to cut off only about 2ft. That was close.






But just enough is enough and the end result is neat enough., and he's happy to sign off the installation.






So we have a bit of a problem with the water pipe, in that we are a foot or two short at the house end, so we need to scrounge a bit of 25mm pipe and couple it in. I can do the rest of the Cat 5 connection (at least, I hope I can, I was a Cat5 installer in the 1990s but now I don't know my green-whites from my oranges), and finish the back-fill. 

I don't know when Ray is coming again, because the weather forecast is not good tomorrow. But Akram wants to come over again, and he used to work for Diamond Cable and so I hope he can sort out my wireless network extension, which is currently reporting an error.


----------



## n0legs

Nice neat job, very pleased for you Steve.
I approve :lol:


----------



## lurker

How much was that chest Steve?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Erm, 370 +VAT...

But what would I spend if I built a birch plywood equivalent? Drawer runners. Locks. Handles. Wheels. Non-slip liners. Finish. Hinges. I bet it would come very close.


----------



## lurker

Ta I will ask a mate with a card to take a look to see if there are any left. Interestingly mates surname is Kirkland


----------



## Graham Orm

A steel cabinet's always good for flammable liquid Steve.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I figured it would make a decent COSHH cupboard.


----------



## Racers

Steve give me a shout if you have problems with the cat5, I have plugs crimps etc.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Pete came today. I'd already installed a pair of Cat5 modules down in the workshop. It took me over an hour. I used to install them every day at one time, but I had to read the instructions for the wiring. I also held the punching tool back to front so I snipped off all the wires on the wrong side of the little forks and had to do it all again. Dork. And my knees didn't like it one bit, so when Pete said he'd come over I thought I'd better leave something for him to do.

So he very kindly - and swiftly - connected up the house end and we set to trying to configure the repeater.

I'd bought a TP-Link box, which can be configured as an AP, a bridge, a repeater. There are half a dozen different options. I reckoned it should be a repeater But every time we changed any of the default parameters, the thing disappeared off the radar. The computer could no longer see it. The only way was to do a factory reset and try something else. We watched a TY video of how to do it. We were on the right lines, but every time we tried, it dropped out.

Eventually we gave up.

We'd briefly seen something about a firmware upgrade, so I did a bit of digging and found that there was an update available. I had to be careful to get the right update for the right hardware version, but I was sure I was right and pressed the button.

Lo and behold I got a Login page straight away and from then on it behave exactly as I would have expected.

So having got it working sitting next to the computer, I plugged it in at the conservatory endand walked down the garden. Normally the wifi signal would drop as I walk by the log cabin, but it was still quite strong even standing outside the workshop door.

Once inside, however, there was a significant drop in strength. It was there, but just one bar.

Way back last summer, Eric the Viking gave me a little Edimax box which he used to use as an extender. I didn't know the password so I couldn't connect to it, not even after guessing - successfully - how to do a factory reset. But I downloaded the manual and found out why. Its IP address is not in the same range as the rest of my network.

So I spent some time changing my own IP address and learning what was in its interface and making lots of mistakes. I couldn't get it to connect wirelessly to the TP-Link. Down in the workshop I could connect weakly to my home wifi through the TP-Link box and strongly to the Edimax, but the Edimax was not talking to the TP-Link.

But then I found a couple of patch leads, connected both boxes through the Cat5 that we'd laid down the garden and bingo, I have 5 bars of wifi signal and internet access in my workshop through my home wifi. - Result!

Thanks for all your help Pete, nice to see you.


----------



## Racers

Excellent news Steve, these simple things get quite complicated sometimes don't they!

Pete


----------



## Baldhead

Racers":1g4h15w1 said:


> simple things get quite complicated sometimes don't they!
> 
> Pete


Too true Pete.

First off my I point out I know absolutely b.....r all about computers (ok I can send emails, log onto the Internet etc etc but how or why they work......?) 
So
CAT5 modules, TP-Link box, AP, TY video and Edimax box are all double Dutch to me, however IP address I believe means Internet Provider? 
Steve your post made me laugh (something I haven't been doing a lot of lately), I didn't and still don't have a clue what your on about, but I'm pleased you got it sorted.

Baldhead
PS I linked my iPad to my iPhone all by myself (but I'm not sure how I did it) :lol: 
Enjoying the thread too.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Well done Steve and Pete! 

As you know, those little Edimax things have almost driven me nuts (as in 'ran over a dead cat and _almost_ killed it') in the past. They're handy problem solvers, but it's annoying that they default to a temporary, 'silly' subnet. The moment you save settings, they'll switch subnets, so even though they're now on your 'normal' subnet, your temporarily-configured PC won't be looking in the right place. 

In due course, if you can get a cable from the workshop directly into the back of the cable/ADSL modem (in the house) it will be quite a bit faster. 

Also, given that the workshop is fairly "leaky" in terms of WiFI getting out, for security it would be sensible to give your router a list of permitted MAC addresses for the devices you intend to use on your network, and block everything else. That should stop any little local oiks sitting in their back bedrooms with Pringles cans and using your bandwidth to download snuff movies. Also turn off "SSID broadcast" on the repeater down in the workshop. You'll have to manually enter the SSID on client devices (one time only - it's stored), but it means there's no WiFi network name to be discovered by anyone searching. It doesn't add any security, but it does deter casual hackers.

E.

PS: 

You can work around the 'lost-the-box' issue by temporarily giving the PC a static IP address and changing the netmask (see below) so that it can 'see' both the temporary subnet for the box and your usual one, together. Once you're done, you just put the PC back to it's normal settings. 

Most PC netmasks default to either nothing at all or 255.255.255.0 , so they will only 'see' the subnet of their own IP address. That means, if your home network is 192.168.1.xxx, the PC will only connect directly to anything in the address range:
192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.255 (some of these are 'reserved,' but you get the idea). 
For everything else it needs to use a router - which can't help in this specific case. 

IIRC, those Edimax boxes start off on 192.168.2.xxx, so, unmolested, the laptop can't see them.

Changing the laptop's mask (n.b. NOT its IP address!) to "255.255.0.0" should let it connect directly to stuff on all subnets starting 192.168.xxx.xxx. 

To find the Edimax box (or whatever-it-is - lots of stuff works this way), you'll still need to type the box's new IP address into the browser's URL bar once you've saved its settings, but it should then connect without issues (he said, naively). Once you're done, just go back to "Choose an IP address automatically", or whatever.

No, I don't know why it needs all this fussing about, either!


----------



## morfa

Baldhead":3e35akme said:


> Racers":3e35akme said:
> 
> 
> 
> simple things get quite complicated sometimes don't they!
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> So CAT5 modules, TP-Link box, AP, TY video and Edimax box are all double Dutch to me, however IP address I believe means Internet Provider?
> Steve your post made me laugh (something I haven't been doing a lot of lately), I didn't and still don't have a clue what your on about, but I'm pleased you got it sorted.
Click to expand...


Warning, boring glossary for the non-technical.

The IP in IP address stands for Internet Protocol. Which is a number assigned to a device connected to a network. The number is represented in a human readable form called dotted decimal, which would look something like this - 192.168.1.100. 

CAT5 is the cable and the module is the box which provides the plugs to plug the cable into. AP is Access Point, which is a wireless access point, which forms part of the wireless network. TP-Link and Edimax are companies which sell networking equipment.

ISP is Internet Service Provider (eg Sky, Talk Talk etc).

Hope you found some of that interesting/useful.


----------



## Baldhead

Eric The Viking":2yepmn2w said:


> Well done Steve and Pete!
> 
> As you know, those little Edimax things have almost driven me nuts (as in 'ran over a dead cat and _almost_ killed it') in the past. They're handy problem solvers, but it's annoying that they default to a temporary, 'silly' subnet. The moment you save settings, they'll switch subnets, so even though they're now on your 'normal' subnet, your temporarily-configured PC won't be looking in the right place.
> 
> In due course, if you can get a cable from the workshop directly into the back of the cable/ADSL modem (in the house) it will be quite a bit faster.
> 
> Also, given that the workshop is fairly "leaky" in terms of WiFI getting out, for security it would be sensible to give your router a list of permitted MAC addresses for the devices you intend to use on your network, and block everything else. That should stop any little local oiks sitting in their back bedrooms with Pringles cans and using your bandwidth to download snuff movies. Also turn off "SSID broadcast" on the repeater down in the workshop. You'll have to manually enter the SSID on client devices (one time only - it's stored), but it means there's no WiFi network name to be discovered by anyone searching. It doesn't add any security, but it does deter casual hackers.
> 
> E.
> 
> PS:
> 
> You can work around the 'lost-the-box' issue by temporarily giving the PC a static IP address and changing the netmask (see below) so that it can 'see' both the temporary subnet for the box and your usual one, together. Once you're done, you just put the PC back to it's normal settings.
> 
> Most PC netmasks default to either nothing at all or 255.255.255.0 , so they will only 'see' the subnet of their own IP address. That means, if your home network is 192.168.1.xxx, the PC will only connect directly to anything in the address range:
> 192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.255 (some of these are 'reserved,' but you get the idea).
> For everything else it needs to use a router - which can't help in this specific case.
> 
> IIRC, those Edimax boxes start off on 192.168.2.xxx, so, unmolested, the laptop can't see them.
> 
> Changing the laptop's mask (n.b. NOT its IP address!) to "255.255.0.0" should let it connect directly to stuff on all subnets starting 192.168.xxx.xxx.
> 
> To find the Edimax box (or whatever-it-is - lots of stuff works this way), you'll still need to type the box's new IP address into the browser's URL bar once you've saved its settings, but it should then connect without issues (he said, naively). Once you're done, just go back to "Choose an IP address automatically", or whatever.
> 
> No, I don't know why it needs all this fussing about, either!


Steve as Eric says :wink: 

Baldhead


----------



## Baldhead

morfa":12ydk5ar said:


> Baldhead":12ydk5ar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racers":12ydk5ar said:
> 
> 
> 
> simple things get quite complicated sometimes don't they!
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> So CAT5 modules, TP-Link box, AP, TY video and Edimax box are all double Dutch to me, however IP address I believe means Internet Provider?
> Steve your post made me laugh (something I haven't been doing a lot of lately), I didn't and still don't have a clue what your on about, but I'm pleased you got it sorted.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Warning, boring glossary for the non-technical.
> 
> The IP in IP address stands for Internet Protocol. Which is a number assigned to a device connected to a network. The number is represented in a human readable form called dotted decimal, which would look something like this - 192.168.1.100.
> 
> CAT5 is the cable and the module is the box which provides the plugs to plug the cable into. AP is Access Point, which is a wireless access point, which forms part of the wireless network. TP-Link and Edimax are companies which sell networking equipment.
> 
> ISP is Internet Service Provider (eg Sky, Talk Talk etc).
> 
> Hope you found some of that interesting/useful.
Click to expand...

NO. I thought IP meant Internet Provider, I even got that wrong :lol: 

Baldhead


----------



## Steve Maskery

LOL everybody!

I didn't know about changing the subnet mask to get round it, I simply gave my Mac a suitable static IP address until after I'd re-addressed the Edimax.
I have done MAC address filtering before, but not much and I can't remember anything about it. I might have to give you a ring, Eric. I have switched off the SSID broadcast though.

Off to visit Mum today, she's had another fall and is hospital.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Sorry to hear about Mum. 'Twas my dad's 85th last week-end - looking horribly frail now.

Take her what my daughter used to call 'smelly' flowers!

E.


----------



## AES

Sorry to hear about your Mum Steve. "Gute Besserung.

@Baldhead:

Don't worry Sir, you're not alone.  I too did not understand one word of all that stuff that Steve and EtV wrote. And even Morfa's glossary didn't help stupid old me much at all (it's one thing to "know" what all these initials and acronyms stand for, it's quite another to understand what they really mean)!

But the main thing is that (IF I understood it at all), Steve now has internet and who knows what other capabilities on tap in his wood workers video palace! Looking forward to some sassy Router jig videos soon now.

More power to the elbow (and the pull-throughs) Steve.

Krgds
AES


----------



## kostello

It means that he can spend all day watching videos of cats instead of work........

Just like me.!!!!!!


----------



## Brentingby

kostello":2qtx4qqx said:


> It means that he can spend all day watching videos of cats instead of work........
> 
> Just like me.!!!!!!



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

It's a good thing if you're allergic to cats.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I Spoke too soon.
This morning I decided to do a speed test in the house and down in the workshop. I went down there and my phone said that the network was Out of Range. Given that I was standing next to the box it was difficult to understand. I could still connect to the weak signal from the TP-Link in the conservatory, but the Edimax box was not playing ball. The lights were on but nobody was home.

The only difference from yesterday was to switch f the SSID broadcast and change the Gateway from the TP-Link that I had set it to, to the main Virgin router that everything else points to. I don't see how that would stop it from working.

I might just have to pester Eric tomorrow...


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

sometimes my wireless access point seems to "forget" the main router and in those situations I just reboot it and it usually rediscovers it and self fixes. Equally my router kindly loses connection with the exchange somehow and rebooting that seems to fix it too.

Basically if in doubt, reboot everything as a first diagnostic tactic.


----------



## Bigdanny

Hi Steve,
Like you I have a TP Link for the last couple of years.WHen someone yesterday started saying about SSID settings I started to look at my settings. I noticed I had never updated my firmware . Something you may want to check. You will need to do factory reset as part of the upgrade, but if you continue to have probs it may be something you want to look at.
My cable co has been playing with the connection again since the new year. I tried a speedtest and seem to have around 80Mb/s connection so very happy. Not bad for a village.
Hope it helps with firmware
D


----------



## wcndave

There's usually 3 different symptoms.

- can't see wifi signal
- can see wifi signal (say on a laptop or phone), however can't connect
- can connect however can't get "online"

Changing the SSID would only affect the first 2, and the gateway would affect the last one.

One thing to be careful about when using multiple devices on a network like this is that only one of them (probably your virgin router) has DHCP enabled. If you get multiple DHCP servers on one network, that can really mess stuff up.

Try turning the SSID on and see if that works.

In general I change one thing at a time and retest for all network stuff, so change gateway, test, then change SSID, test. That way when it breaks you usually know the cause.


----------



## Steve Maskery

After a very helpful conversation with EtV, it is now working perfectly.
I have the main router which covers the house, but which weakens as soon as I walk into the conservatory.
I have the TP-link set as a Bridge/AP in the conservatory, which boosts the signal in the garden and sends the signal down the wire to the workshop.
I have the Edimax box in the workshop set as an AP. 

DHCP is switched off on all except the Router. MAC address filtering on the wireless boxes. So I gather that should make it fairly secure.

My phone stays connected to whichever box it is talking to at any point in time, and as soon as it is out of range it connects again to the appropriate box. Seamless. The only problem is that if the signal is weak but still there, it doesn't automatically switch to the stronger signal, but that is not really a problem, as by the time I am inside the workshop it has dropped the house signal anyway.

I think it really is sorted this time. Furthermore, I think I actually understand what is going on!


----------



## SimonB

Setting all SSIDs to the same name should overcome the problem of hanging onto a weak signal. The client device (at least Windows & iOS devices IMO) will then remain connected to the strongest signal at any location, although there may be a few seconds delay initially after you relocate.


----------



## t0ne

Didn't see it mentioned but you have set up authentication on your wifi (set it up as WPA2 if possible)?
MAC address filtering is trivially easy to circumvent if that's all you are relying on.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes I do.


----------



## NickWelford

Seems to me that a new series of videos should be forthcoming about the various problems and solutions you have encountered. Pity you haven't been filming all the way through...... (Or have you?)


----------



## nanscombe

Might only be a few seconds if any swearing is edited out. LOL


----------



## Eric The Viking

SimonB":2krryrbj said:


> Setting all SSIDs to the same name should overcome the problem of hanging onto a weak signal. The client device (at least Windows & iOS devices IMO) will then remain connected to the strongest signal at any location, although there may be a few seconds delay initially after you relocate.


That's how it ought to work, but it's entirely dependent on client firmware. The experiments with Samsung and iOs hardware I've done show it often doesn't do that. In the trade its known as the 'sticky client problem' - as long as the poor signal doesn't drop below the device's "totally rubbish" threshold, the device 'sticks' doggedly to the degrading one.

The current state of the art to fix it (and have big, seamless wifi networks) is to use smart access points from the likes of Cisco and Aruba (now HP), which log client connection quality and pass clients between APs without the user being aware of it. This requires a management protocol across the infrastructure, and some implementations need a separate wifi controller too (Aruba's entry-level one is peer-to-peer though).

802.11ac is at least 3x faster than 802.11n, but I don't think even that has any provision made to broadcast some sort of connected-ap table to allow clients to choose for themselves. And anyway, it needs the client to look for other connections whilst it still has a "good-ish" one, which is something the wifi subsystem's firmware isn't designed to do (and which would either cost a lot or hit performance).

The Cisco system has been around for a while and is pretty stable. I like the Aruba approach, but haven't yet used it. Aruba cite some big clients though, including Microsoft campuses globally, so it's not snake oil. 

The trouble is that simple implementations of either start in the thousands, probably more than all the kit on a normal home network put together.

E.


----------



## wcndave

I was going to say that using same SSID rarely works. I use the Cisco POE Access Points, and they work well, do pass you around to nearest device, and are normally priced, but not wireless ac. I do have one wireless ac router but without 4 way ac devices it won't make a difference.

Aren't we hijacking this thread somewhat? Steve's got it working perfectly ;-)


----------



## Eric The Viking

wcndave":17gacxry said:


> I was going to say that using same SSID rarely works. I use the Cisco POE Access Points, and they work well, do pass you around to nearest device, and are normally priced, but not wireless ac. I do have one wireless ac router but without 4 way ac devices it won't make a difference.
> 
> Aren't we hijacking this thread somewhat? Steve's got it working perfectly ;-)



Agree on all points


----------



## defsdoor

The solution to wifi issues with multiple access points is Zero Handoff.

You only see a single wifi network - no matter how many access points you have (and beneath the SSID at BSSID level). They sort out which one is handling you amongst themselves - whereas traditionally your device decides which one to switch to. This can lead to issues if your AP is stronger transmitting than your device is as you can hear it but it can't hear you.


----------



## Eric The Viking

defsdoor":wroq9uih said:


> ...This can lead to issues if your AP is stronger transmitting than your device is...


They always are, given battery power and compromise on aerial design and location. 

Some clients are really rubbish: My Samsung phone's wifi aerial is at the bottom, and wrapped round the shell, right where you hold it in a cupped hand to use it. Put the thing on a table and the signal strenth often goes up one bar immediately. On which point, those bars are as accurate as measuring air temperature by how cold your nose feels.

It would be very useful to have an AP that shows analogue info about wifi clients: band used, received signal strength etc. I haven't yet seen a retail unit that has this, although open source router firmware might - haven't played with it.

Useful discussion, but perhaps we should move it to the General Chat section and not hijack Steve's thread.

E.


----------



## Steve Maskery

What a day.
Woke up to no hot water. Looked at the boiler and it was flashing. Never a good sign, I guess. So, being an ex-IT man I did what any self-respecting ex-IT man would do, I switched it off and switched it back on again.

Nada.

So I phoned the guy who installed it over a year ago and he told me, in about a minute, how to fix it. It was just underpressurised and was surprised I never had to top it up before now.

I was quite pleased, really, in a way, because it is not that long ago when something like that would have sent me really frit, whereas I handled it without going all wobbly. I must be getting better.

Then my tumble dryer was on its way, having been in for repair for just over a month. But as I was clearing out the laundry room for its return, I noticed that the floor was all wet. Not paddling wet, but wet, and over a large area.

Just then Ray turned up, as did the delivery men. Ray helped me clean up, the delivery men left the TD in the hall and we tried to find out where the water was coming from. The washing machine wasn't leaking, so it's not that. We came to the conclusion that it must be coming in from outside, since we removed the downspout to install the Cat5 and power. So I'll just have to keep my eye on it. The whole room is damp at skirting level, that part of the house is below ground level and these houses were built without a DPC.

So it was 10.30 by the time we did anything constructive.

I say "we" but as usual it was Ray grafting and me running about. He re-laid the block paving we'd had to lift for the services, 







I went out and bought a couple of bags of sand and made 1,872 trips to the tip with rubble and general waste. Then, after lunch Ray started digging the soakaway 






Actually that is Ray's little joke. He was pretending he'd dug it rather deeper than it really was:






while I made another couple of million tip trips. It's a good job that the tip is only a couple of streets away.

Then I had a thought. A late thought. Is it OK where it is? So I rang Kevin the BCO. "It needs to be 5m from the building". Well it was only 2m from the workshop, but if it was 5m from my workshop it would be less than 5m from the log cabin. "Just get it as far away as you can, then".

So with much more cheer than I would have, Ray started to fill in the "practice" hole with the contents of the new hole.






He soon hit concrete, a buried fence-post base, as well as thick plastic membrane, a wiper blade, a wiper motor, loads of glass again and lumps of clay.






We knocked off at about 4, I had a quick turn-around and drove for 2 hours to my mum in hospital. I've just got back and now I am knackered.


----------



## Baldhead

Sorry Steve I missed your earlier post about your mums fall, how is she?

BH


----------



## Racers

Digging holes and filling them in sounds like Cool Hand Luke to me, has Ray got his mind right?

Pete


----------



## Eric The Viking

Ronnie Barker: Futtock's End (the "Gardeners" carefully moving a hole from one end of the vegetable garden to the other...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Mum's old and frail. I've seen her looking better.

Pete:
<welsh accent>
"I'm the only loony in this village!"
</welsh accent>


----------



## Titch

Looking good. Can I ask how big a soakaway are you using ? Anymore details on this . I've been looking but there's loads out there


----------



## Steve Maskery

We are digging it until the BCO says it's big enough. He wants it 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5m. If we reckon the roof is, in round numbers 80 sq m, and an inch is 1/40th of a metre, then an inch of rain is 2 cubic metres. It's not often we get an inch of rain, is it? The problem is that the ground here is higher than at the workshop itself, and the cavity has to be below infeed level.

Ive just done a couple of hours out there (Ray's not here today). I'm still finding man-made rubbish 3' down. Glass, bits of electrical stuff, off a car, I think. A badge. A bag of sweets, minus the sweets themselves. And today I have come to a terracotta pipe of some sort. Goodness knows where it is from or to. It runs straight down the garden, about 8' from the fence. No idea how far it goes. I just hope it is a drain of some sort and not sewerage...

And lots and lots of clay


----------



## Titch

Thanks for that. I was digging out and leveling some ground last week. Got spoons forks wiper arms glass. Shoes I feel your pain and I haven't dug down yet. Just top ft or so.
Great thread btw


----------



## John15

Steve,
With all those hidden treasures you should have called in Time Team.
John


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well Ray has said more than once that he hopes we find a body; that way someone else will dig up the garden.


----------



## Racers

Steve Maskery":ymu225a6 said:


> Well Ray has said more than once that he hopes we find a body; that way someone else will dig up the garden.




Ex-wife? :shock: 

Pete


----------



## n0legs

John15":8yu72tmz said:


> Steve,
> With all those hidden treasures you should have called in Time Team.
> John



NO!!!!!! Nice idea but that's the last thing you want when building. 
The archaeology people can hold you up for weeks and cost you thousands :evil:


----------



## wcndave

1.5m cubed is massive, about 3.4m^3. Would not want to dig that by hand... UK average annual rainfall is about 1m so 2.5cm of rain would be 2.5% in one day.

0.6" would seem to be about the 95% percentile of daily UK rainfall, which gives you 1.2 m^3 so about 1/3 the original requirement. Depends who you have to persuade!


----------



## n0legs

wcndave":23kx69hz said:


> 1.5m cubed is massive, about 3.4m^3. Would not want to dig that by hand...!



That's only about 5-6 Ton.
Easy, good honest days work, where's my mattock and round mouth 8)


----------



## NickWelford

Where are you dumping all the spoil?


----------



## Steve Maskery

There was a pond up at the top of the garden. It's not a pond any more.


----------



## Brentingby

From the sound of it, your pond is going to be a mountain. -b


----------



## Steve Maskery

I first machined the glazing beads a couple of weeks ago at the Community Workshop, but the only cutter we had that was suitable was a roundover and I wanted an ovolo. We didn't have a smaller bearing to fit, so I removed the bearing altogether and used the straight fence instead. This turned out to be not a very good idea, and the end result was a bit scruffy, to be honest.

Fortunately the beads were plenty big enough, so I put them through the thicknesser to remove the mess and used the bearing, but took two cuts, one at 90 deg to the other. OK the round part is not truly a quadrant, but it's not bad and I don't think anyone wold ever know.

So on Friday I fitted them all to the frames.












They are just pressed into place at the mo, the glass isn't going to be that thick! 

I've just been along to order the glass. The bloke was very helpful. Doug B had suggested that I would be better off with laminated glass, so I discussed this with the Glass Man and the upshot is that I am having sealed units made with laminated glass, smoked. It also comes to a few quid less than he quoted me over the phone last week, so I'm happy. I can pick them up tomorrow.

The weather forecast for Wednesday is not very good, so there may not be any soakaway progress, but if not I'll see about getting these frames installed.


----------



## Graham Orm

Lammy is much more secure than toughened Steve. Cars have toughened in the side windows. When you see a pile of tiny fragments in the road, that's where a car side window has been broken. You can bounce bricks off it, but if you tap it on the edge or with a pointed instrument near to a corner it will disintegrate into tiny fragments. Hence it's use in areas where people are prone to fall against it.
Laminated is what they put in the windscreen of a car, it's 2 pieces of glass and a piece of polythene between them so if you break it the polythene stays intact and you get a bulge but it doesn't go through without a lot of effort and repeated impacts....and noise.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Completely agree with Graham.

We fitted laminated glass to the bottom sashes in our last place, and have fitted it here to the only single-glazed window we have (after a break-in!). 

The glazier cracked a piece slightly, doing the sashes, and left it out on top of the stuff in the skip. My builder at the time hadn't heard of it being used that way and wanted to test it. He sat it up on two bits of 2x4 and hit it in the centre with a 2lb lump hammer. It didn't shatter completely, but smashed, taking the shape of the hammer head, like something from a cartoon.

It's good stuff. It's also slightly sound deadening too, as the plastic part of the laminate damps vibrations. I've also got it in the garage/workshop windows, but backed up with rebar mesh on the inside so it looks hard to get in, too. I'd far rather they didn't try...

E.

PS: it's a bit heavier than a single pane, so you have to re-balance the sashes, but not by much.


----------



## RobinBHM

I think laminated glass blocks UV light by 99% so is good to use for minimising fading of fabrics. 

Its not good to handle, it has sharp edged as it is annealed glass and breaks easily on the edge, but very strong when installed. Of course you need to have a secure method of fitting the beads or use security tape


----------



## Eric The Viking

I designed my frames to glaze from the inside for that reason and the beads are screwed in.


----------



## Graham Orm

If it's purely for security then Georgian wired has the same effect and has the visible deterrent of wire inside the glass.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

"I think laminated glass blocks UV light by 99% so is good to use for minimising fading of fabrics." - Robin

Good to know your curtains will be OK Steve.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was hoping that we would get the windows in today, but Ray wanted to dig. So I let him. I barrowed and tipped.











The pipe I found last week is a land drain. No idea where it goes to, but it is on a bed of solid clay, which is obviously why it was put in in the first pace. It is possible that it is older than the house - it might have been put in when these were fields. Ray tried to see ow thick the clay bed is, but a hole a foot deep showed no sign of becoming soil again. It could be metres thick.






That's not exactly going to help drainage, is it? So we now have a hole 3m x 1.2m, 0.85m deep. If I have a foot of soil on top of it, we shall have a 1.6 m^3 void, or enough to hold 20mm of rainfall.






I rang Kevin the BCO and told him where we had got to, and when I told him we had hit clay and the size of the hole, there were no sharp intakes of breath through puckered lips, so I hope he will pass it. He is coming next week.

Ray wanted to finish early today, but we did have time to fit the outside glazing bars to make the rebates. I've decided to set them back 40mm from the front, which will give me plenty of room to sort out shutters, in due course.






We've both got other things to do for a few days, so there will be a bit of a hiatus.


----------



## wcndave

Steve Maskery":2kjoi0ye said:


>




It was very thoughtful of you to put flowers at the head of his grave. Nice touch!


----------



## Shultzy

Steve, It's only a land drain if they don't have socket joints. If it is a land drain the water will escape into it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

That's right.
We dug one up, it was cracked, and when we saw that it was just an arch in cross-section, it confirmed what several people had said. It's right on top of the bed of clay, so I guess that is why it was put in.
We syphoned a few gallons of water into the pit and it did flow away, slowly but surely, but the clay hole will still be full this time next week, I reckon.

I'd love to know where the land drain goes to, though, there is no obvious destination, like a stream, anywhere around.


----------



## Graham Orm

Looks like you've got exactly the same scenario I had Steve, Loads of graft digging a sump hole only to reveal a drain right where you want it. 
Because we also are on clay this part of the garden becomes a quagmire in the winter.

This is Dave....he's my version of Ray.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Graham Orm":pt5g98ys said:


> Looks like you've got exactly the same scenario I had Steve, Loads of graft digging a sump hole only to reveal a drain right where you want it.
> Because we also are on clay this part of the garden becomes a quagmire in the winter.
> 
> This is Dave....he's my version of Ray.



Now that's a neat hole.


----------



## TrimTheKing

Where can I buy a Ray, please?

Mark


----------



## Chrispy

Do I dare sugugest that this thread has a name change, this is not Steve's shed it's clearly Ray's shed. Sorry workshop.


----------



## Harry 48

I feel totally inadequate I haven't got a Ray or a Dave have to do it myself some people are just lucky LOL :-({|=


----------



## Mcluma

Is that soak away for the complete roof?

if so

Then that soak away is not nearly big enough - seriously


----------



## Harbo

I'm afraid if its it clay it isn't a soakaway its a storage chamber.
Let's hope the field drain will work?

Rod


----------



## CHJ

The surrounding ground must be able to absorb the same volume of rain as the building area exposure, it's been doing if for years, worst case fit some field drains radiating out from the sump pit to help dispersion over the garden area.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Sorry for the late reply guys, I've been away for a few days.

Unfortunately I fear you may all be right.

We'll see what the BCO says on Wednesday.


----------



## Mcluma

I used the soaraway crates they are about Gbp40 a piece, they are 400 * 400 * 1000 - you probably need about 6 for that kind of roof


----------



## Steve Maskery

The Man from Del Monte, he say Yes!


More later.


----------



## Baldhead

Steve Maskery":3r98981s said:


> The Man from Del Monte, he say Yes!
> 
> 
> More later.


I've had some awful news this morning, so this Steve is just what I need to cheer me up, that man from Del Monte is a nice guy isn't he  

Stew


----------



## Steve Maskery

First the good news.

Kevin the BCO came this lunchtime. He walked into the workshop, looked around and laughed. I asked him what was funny. "Nothing", he said, "It's great!". I got the slight impression that he may have been just a tad envious 

So then we uncovered the Hole and we discussed it. He was pleased that we had uncovered a land drain and more so that it appears to be still functioning, so he was happy to let us go with it. In fact, he doesn't want to see anything else until the job is complete and ready for sign-off.

Now the not so good news.

Having had a few very enjoyable days away, and spending yesterday at the Community Workshop, I was raring to get on with something on the build. Now Ray usually comes on a Wednesday, but today he couldn't make it, but I reckoned I could handle the windows on my own. I was down at the bottom of the garden before 9 o'clock, which is the crack of dawn for me, usually.

I removed the plasterboard that had been covering the window apertures and put in the frames. Now when we did the framing, there were not planned to be any windows here, just plain walls, so we had not been that fussy about exactly where the studs and noggings went. Near enough was near enough. But as soon as we decided to use them as window openings, it got a bit more important that they were right. So I had made the frames a bit undersized, so that they could be packed out to be all the same. When I had the first one shimmed right I screwed it to the studwork.

The second aperture is quite a bit wider than the others, 30mm or so. That stud is obviously not properly on its centre. I think Pete did that one 







The last one proved to be a bit problematic because it was sitting about 5mm too high, so I bashed the nogging down a tad (easy to do as they were nailed, there is a bit of give) and trimmed off the skin inside and out.






I foamed up the gaps and it all looked good






The sealed units are supposed to be ventilated and drained. In the past I have made an external bead that does this invisibly, but these frames do not lend themselves to the same technique, so I decided simply to cut a notch in the underside of the beading. Perhaps it would have been better to do it on the external beads, but it only makes it easier for someone to insert a screwdriver, so I decided to do it on the inside beading. I doubt very much indeed that an liquid water will collect, they are well sheltered, it's more a case of ventilation.

Although my tablesaw itself survived the raid fairly intact (apart from the original long rails), my mitre fence went. Although it was basic, it was solid and it was useful for some jobs and cross-cutting small housings was one. My dado set didn't survive either, but I bought a replacement about a year ago and have never had cause to use it.

The first task was to fit a set of reducing bushes. They were not a very good fit, really, but as they were free I can hardly complain. I tried to pein them in but was afraid of damaging the plate of the blade, so I resorted to a smear of superglue. I mackled up a makeshift mitre fence and cut a small housing near the ends of the beadings.






This will ensure that any vapour build up in the clearance gap around the sealed unit will have the chance to escape.

Ah yes, the clearance gap. Hmm.

I fitted some glazing tape to the beads (having given them a coat of primer before lunch) and offered up the fist sealed unit. I sat the bottom on a couple of the blue squidgy things that come stuck to the surface and pushed it up. It was a bit tight, but I put that down to the diagonal of the thickness, but it wasn't that that was the problem. Width-wise it was fine, but height-wise it is too big. It did go in , but the squidgy things (they must have a name but I've no idea what it is) were compressed to nothing and the top is hard up against the top of the frame. Zero clearance top and bottom. I measured the frame and the unit and found the problem. My frame is a good mm shorter than I thought it was and the sealed unit is a good couple of mm longer than I ordered. And all the units were the same. How could this be?

I rang the glass company and explained. "Let me get the paperwork". 

A few minute later he rang back and asked if I could bring them in so they could measure them. Well, one is stuck in and I'm not sure how I'm going to get it out, but I could take the others in, it's not far. He said he couldn't understand how they could all be wrong by the same amount, and I have to say that I agree with him. But they are definitely a couple of mm too long. If I'd been a bit more generous with my clearances, perhaps it would not have mattered, but this is the way it is right now.

Then I had a thought. I got another tape measure. By that they were spot on.

So now what? If I take them back and they measure right I can hardly argue. But if I leave this one in this tight, what is going to happen when summer comes and they warm up?
Oh woe is me; woe, woe and thrice woe.

So I've had to board them up again.

On the plus side, it's virtually impossible to see in from outside when the lights are off, even without shutters over the windows, which I plan to fit in the fullness of time.


----------



## Graham Orm

The squidgy things are called 'buddy's, or at least they are in Manchester. They are to stop the sealed units sticking together.

The sealed units are supposed to sit on plastic packers that lift them off the frame. This is so that any moisture that gets under them cannot damage the seal when it freezes, this will happen the first winter if they're not packed. The unit will fail and steam up. The glass suppliers might sell them, if not they'll know where to get them. They need to be the exact same width as the sealed unit so that they carry both panes of the sealed unit. If not when the sun is hot it will soften the sealant holding the unit together and one pane will slip and the unit will fail. 

If they're in tight, best scenario the unit will fail and steam up, worst they'll crack.


----------



## kostello

Just fit them..........when they go kaput change them later........ Might be 6 months Or 20 years


Every project has one thing that doesn't quite go to plan


----------



## monkeybiter

As they're not too wide and you're adding beading on the inside [IIRC] couldn't you apply a chisel to the bottoms and possibly tops of the frames to allow sufficient room? A bit of a pain but a solution, and it should be invisible when assembly is complete.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'd not thought of that. As you say, a bit of a pain, but not impossible by any means. Thanks for the idea, I'll give it some consideration.


----------



## NickWelford

monkeybiter":1gjp1hgj said:


> As they're not too wide and you're adding beading on the inside [IIRC] couldn't you apply a chisel to the bottoms and possibly tops of the frames to allow sufficient room? A bit of a pain but a solution, and it should be invisible when assembly is complete.



That's the first thing that popped into my mind. Then, this sort of thing seems to happen to me quite frequently. 
BTW, which tape measure do you bin?


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":3sh2rm0a said:


> I'd not thought of that. As you say, a bit of a pain, but not impossible by any means. Thanks for the idea, I'll give it some consideration.



A small router with a straight cutter, and a batten for it to run along nailed to the stud would do a neat job.


----------



## RobinBHM

As others have mentioned, grooved out the head, you need the groove to be a few mm's wider than the unit thickness so the unit will go in on the angle. Its a well known fix in joinery circles!

Dg units are often too big, usually caused by too much mastic and a bit of misalignment of the 2 glasses.

Dont groove the bottom, you will create a well that will fill up with water. 

Use glazing shims at the bottom, aim for a gap of 4mm or 5mm. The shims should be about the same thickness as the dg unit so both glasses are supported.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you all for the advice. I'm not looking forward to doing it, but I'll give it my best shot.

I spoke to Ray this evening. He is laid up, which is not at all like him. So he is not coming t all this week  , but he was pleased to hear the BCO was happy!


----------



## NickWelford

Perhaps Ray has been working too hard.........


----------



## Bod

NickWelford":3a8p05fl said:


> monkeybiter":3a8p05fl said:
> 
> 
> 
> As they're not too wide and you're adding beading on the inside [IIRC] couldn't you apply a chisel to the bottoms and possibly tops of the frames to allow sufficient room? A bit of a pain but a solution, and it should be invisible when assembly is complete.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the first thing that popped into my mind. Then, this sort of thing seems to happen to me quite frequently.
> BTW, which tape measure do you bin?
Click to expand...


Bin both!
Replace with one new.
1 measure = same distance.

Bod


----------



## shipbadger

Ah! The mysteries of tape measures. They're not supposed to stretch so I suppose it's all down to making things for a price. I long ago reconciled myself to the fact that no two tape measures would read the same. Sometimes it's wear at the end where the clip slides back ond forth on a couple of rivets. I have a rule (sorry about the pun), the same tape, and only that tape, is used throughout a project.

Now I don't want to worry you but have you checked your steel rules aganst each other and against the tape? I bought a set of three rules (6, 12, and 24") from a certain well known purveyor of tools and they don't even agree with each other!

You can see why people splash out on Moore and Wright or various American brands once you try to tighten up on measuring accurately.

Tony Comber


----------



## lurker

Graham Orm":13ysl9bi said:


> The squidgy things are called 'buddy's, or at least they are in Manchester. They are to stop the sealed units sticking together.
> 
> The sealed units are supposed to sit on plastic packers that lift them off the frame. This is so that any moisture that gets under them cannot damage the seal when it freezes, this will happen the first winter if they're not packed. The unit will fail and steam up. The glass suppliers might sell them, if not they'll know where to get them. They need to be the exact same width as the sealed unit so that they carry both panes of the sealed unit. If not when the sun is hot it will soften the sealant holding the unit together and one pane will slip and the unit will fail.
> 
> If they're in tight, best scenario the unit will fail and steam up, worst they'll crack.



Do these plastic packers look like a thin wedge with serrations ?
If so I have Pile of them


----------



## Graham Orm

lurker":2wcrg4qz said:


> Graham Orm":2wcrg4qz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The squidgy things are called 'buddy's, or at least they are in Manchester. They are to stop the sealed units sticking together.
> 
> The sealed units are supposed to sit on plastic packers that lift them off the frame. This is so that any moisture that gets under them cannot damage the seal when it freezes, this will happen the first winter if they're not packed. The unit will fail and steam up. The glass suppliers might sell them, if not they'll know where to get them. They need to be the exact same width as the sealed unit so that they carry both panes of the sealed unit. If not when the sun is hot it will soften the sealant holding the unit together and one pane will slip and the unit will fail.
> 
> If they're in tight, best scenario the unit will fail and steam up, worst they'll crack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these plastic packers look like a thin wedge with serrations ?
> If so I have Pile of them
Click to expand...


No they're an even thickness and vary from about 1mm to 6mm

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/25186483 ... 108&ff19=0


----------



## lurker

Graham Orm":1wxsu9kj said:


> lurker":1wxsu9kj said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Graham Orm":1wxsu9kj said:
> 
> 
> 
> The squidgy things are called 'buddy's, or at least they are in Manchester. They are to stop the sealed units sticking together.
> 
> The sealed units are supposed to sit on plastic packers that lift them off the frame. This is so that any moisture that gets under them cannot damage the seal when it freezes, this will happen the first winter if they're not packed. The unit will fail and steam up. The glass suppliers might sell them, if not they'll know where to get them. They need to be the exact same width as the sealed unit so that they carry both panes of the sealed unit. If not when the sun is hot it will soften the sealant holding the unit together and one pane will slip and the unit will fail.
> 
> If they're in tight, best scenario the unit will fail and steam up, worst they'll crack.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do these plastic packers look like a thin wedge with serrations ?
> If so I have Pile of them
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No they're an even thickness and vary from about 1mm to 6mm
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/25186483 ... 108&ff19=0
Click to expand...


I have some of those too also ones that looks similar but obviously fits over a corner. 
Give me a shout if you want them Steve, but I guess your problem is the opposite.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Jim Lurker came to help today. It's ages since we've seen each other so it was nice to catch up.

First job was to sort out these windows. I'd already started to ease the tops of the frames a bit with a wide chisel







and I set Jim on fitting tape and pins the the inside beading whilst I fitted tape to the external






It was a jolly sight easier with two, rather than struggling as I did on my own with the first two.






Then I cleaned the glass whilst Jim set the nails






They look good






I decided that it would be a good idea to carry on with the front whilst I had another pair of hands, so Jim cut lengths of slate lath for me whilst I nailed them up.






Next we nailed up a lath the full length of the front. This will support the the back edge of the soffit.






I then started to cut and fit trim for the windows. This covers the gap between the window frames and the framing. I started with the bottom piece, which I ripped to 30 degrees 






and nailed in place






And then we stopped, because that's when I had my tablesaw accident.


----------



## Penny

> And then we stopped, because that's when I had my tablesaw accident.




Oh dear... What have you done?


----------



## Hemsby

Hope it was not an Ouch :?: Just "I will have to make that again"


----------



## Graham Orm

Well you must have one finger left to have typed that post.


----------



## Baldhead

Steve please tell us you made a pigs ear of cutting some timber and no blood was involved.

Stew


----------



## Owl

*Looks like you've got somebody breaking in already !*


----------



## Steve Maskery

LOL!
It doesn't offend me, though what Jim thinks of it is another matter!


----------



## lurker

Shifty looking sod isn't he.  
:


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's the stripey shirt wot does it. You just need the Robin mask and a bag labelled "Swag".


----------



## Wizard9999

Penny":zcxej8ul said:


> And then we stopped, because that's when I had my tablesaw accident.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh dear... What have you done?
Click to expand...


Unless I missed it I don't think there was ever any more detail provided on the accident. That combined with no posting since 21st is a bit concerning. Is anyone able to confirm all is OK at Maskery towers?

Terry.


----------



## The Bear

You missed it, there been lots of debate about what happened, 8 pages worth.

the-importance-of-practising-what-one-preaches-t88029.html


----------



## Wizard9999

The Bear":igajz9bs said:


> You missed it, there been lots of debate about what happened, 8 pages worth.
> 
> the-importance-of-practising-what-one-preaches-t88029.html



 Oh dear, that's what I get for only reading threads where the title sparks some interest in me! I'll have a look now.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yesterday I started to fix my saw. My hand drilling is not very accurate. I miss my drill press, so today Ray and I carried it down to the workshop. It's as rusty as hell and needs some TLC ASAP I'm busy tomorrow but I'll try to do that this weekend.

So after doing what I could to make a new guard, I did a bit on the outside. I didn't take any photos, so I've faked a couple just now.











I've cocked up. I really should have made those bottom trim pieces come right down to the cladding. I don't know why I didn't. Not only would it have saved me some work, it would have looked better, too. Too late now, I'd have to replace the verticals too.

Ray has scrounged some pipes for me, so we have used them to build a honeycomb structure in the soakaway hole. Ray lined the sides with some woven membrane (we recycled some builders' bulk bags) whilst I made some staples for him out of galvanised fencing wire.











Then we sawed up the pipes into short lengths. I already had a few ribbed ones, so we had plenty. We did think of planting them upright, but decided against it as, in time, they would sink into the ground. All the weight would be on a thin ring, so that's quite a bit of pressure.











So with some more membrane on top to stop soil leaching in, we could start filling in again. There is a good foot of soil and I plan on having a raised bed or two there as well.






Of course, we have to get from the workshop to the soakaway, so we started to dig a trench. It was "we" actually, although I admit Ray did rather more of it than I did. We hit something hard. Very hard. Someone, for reasons best know to themselves, had buried a bag of cement. Unfortunately it has gone of and is unusable.






So it currently looks like this. I think we shall have to did the trench a little deeper. It doesn't help that the ground is higher at the soakaway than it is at the workshop end.






Using these pipes has saved me about £400 in soakaway cages, something for which I am very grateful. I've spent far too much on this, I am skint and it is a ridiculous project upon which too have embarked. Sure, I love it, of course, but it was a daft thing to do.

Although it was only 2pm, we packed up. It's been really windy here today and wind and contact lenses are not happy bedfellows. Even with my wraparound specs, dust still gets in and it is agony. The only thing wind is good for is flying kites, something I've not done for far too long. I must put that right soon.

So we stopped and went shopping for guttering and stuff. That will be next week's job.


----------



## monkeybiter

I would suggest that you keep a precise record of the location of the soak away for future reference, future plans can change. 

Still an enviable achievement.


----------



## xy mosian

Isn't a raised bed over the soakaway going to need a lot of water?
xy


----------



## Steve Maskery

Dunno. I'm no gardener, just a middle-aged geezer who can't bend as easily as he used to.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've decided that I am going to replace those bottom rail trims. I'll have to take the verticals off, but I can re-use them. Pity I caulked them.


----------



## monkeybiter

You'll get this thread to 100 pages yet! (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

100 pages and 100,000 views? What do you reckon?
I pity anyone who stumbles on this, starts reading from the beginning and gets hooked...


----------



## Titch

I'm hooked makes a great read


----------



## NickWelford

Pity you don't get a few pennies per view, Steve.......


----------



## paul-c

Steve Maskery":3psskfb6 said:


> 100 pages and 100,000 views? What do you reckon?
> I pity anyone who stumbles on this, starts reading from the beginning and gets hooked...



you mean gets hooked like everybody already reading this thread.
i have to tell you Steve , this is the first thing i look at when i log in (i bet i am not alone in doing this ).
so thank you and keep up the good work. =D>


----------



## John Brown

NickWelford":104n4146 said:


> Pity you don't get a few pennies per view, Steve.......


Does get a bit of free advertising in every post, though.
(Not that I'm complaining, I bought the bandsaw DVDs years ago).


----------



## RobinBHM

100 pages and 100,000 views.................seems like a good target to me.

I started reading this thread after about 20 pages or so, I then read from the beginning and have followed it ever since.


----------



## bertikus_maximus

paul-c":1w8w7akx said:


> Steve Maskery":1w8w7akx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 100 pages and 100,000 views? What do you reckon?
> I pity anyone who stumbles on this, starts reading from the beginning and gets hooked...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you mean gets hooked like everybody already reading this thread.
> i have to tell you Steve , this is the first thing i look at when i log in (i bet i am not alone in doing this ).
> so thank you and keep up the good work. =D>
Click to expand...


I only log in to read this so I can see the pictures! (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

Before I can cut any more wood on my tablesaw I need to rebuild the guard. I've made the cover but I need to drill some steel accurately, my hand drilling is not good enough.

Ray and I dragged my drill press from the log cabin last week. It's a very heavy machine, even Ray complained.

Lulu (for that is her name, she was built in 1963, the year of Shout!) was looking very sad indeed. I had rebuilt her a few years ago, when I first bought her. NVR switch and paint job, mainly. But now she looked very unloved.







I should have photographed the cover the other way up. It was covered in guano.






I'd already cleaned up the top section a bit, so we could remove the head and table to make it a bit lighter.





But even in pieces it is a very difficult machine to handle.

The smaller parts I decided to derust electrolytically. I forgot to photograph that handle before it went in, it's already had a few minutes here. 











Since taking that picture, I've altered the arrangement a bit. The part is now suspended in the middle and there are four 6"nails making a sort of cage, so that the part gets done from all sides. I'll try to remember to take a better pic tomorrow.

Next I dismantled the base/column assembly. It nearly killed me, it is so heavy. But I got the column on to my bench somehow and started to rub it down. It a very messy job and I needed some paper towels so I got sidetracked into installing a paper towel dispenser I bought some weeks ago and has been sitting in its box ever since.

It is a really excellent bit of kit. Solid. Well-made as well as well-designed. There is a template included for positioning the holes. Good instructions. Very good indeed.






It even has a built-in spirit level!






So now I have hand towel on demand. Luxury.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Back to the pillar drill.

I cleaned up the column using emery paper and WD40. You can see the difference in surface appearance. The left is where I have cleaned it up, the right is where it was inside the casting and did not get rusty at all. So it is not exactly like it was before, but it is not bad. Part of its history now.






I also polished my nuts.











I got the column and base reassembled but the head was too heavy to lift and manoeuvre , I couldn't get it any further than this.






"I know", thinks I, "I'll take the motor off". Which I did, only to find that it is connected by a cable. silly person. So now I had a %^&* heavy motor in my hands, tethered to a cast-iron head. Fortunately I did manage to get them back together before I did myself a mischief.

I photographed what wire went where and disconnected the motor






I did get her back together, switched her on and she purred. A wire brush on the rotating chuck and she looked as good as new.






I need to make a new DP table, but right now I am one happy bunny. I didn't think she would come up this good.

So tomorrow I can finish my blade guard and get on with the window trim.


----------



## paulm

Nice work Steve, very satisfying I'm sure 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Paul Chapman

Great job, Steve.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Racers

Good job Steve, I still think she should she been called Scarlett.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

I can't remember what colour she was when I got her. But looking underneath the table it would appear that she was a sort of petrol blue colour originally. I like her in seductive red, though.
I've just realised that the pictures showing how she has come up are not that clear. I'll try to take some better ones tomorrow.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2s709j60 said:


> Next I dismantled the base/column assembly. It nearly killed me, it is so heavy.



That would have been a bit ironic, killed preparing tools to make a safety device! #-o 

Looking very good for it's age, and in a short space of time too!


----------



## Steve Maskery

=D> =D> =D>
That made me laugh.


----------



## marcros

I look forward to seeing the table when you make it. I am not sure whether to make one for mine, fit a drill vice, fit something to hold pen blanks or go for a modular approach.


----------



## nanscombe

If you wanted to keep the 1964 link, with the red colouration and "Anyone who had a heart" would want to get her up and running again you could re-christen her "Cilla the pillar drill". :wink:

Does she also tend to go from a purr to whine a bit when in use? :twisted:


----------



## wcndave

I had to move my drill press to new shop and was surprised that it was the most difficult piece of kit to move. We took the head and base off, and it took 3 of us struggling to lift the head.


----------



## Owl

Steve Maskery":cqaj9h42 said:


> I also polished my nuts.





Ahem  couldn't you phrase it more delicately Steve


----------



## Graham Orm

I love my nuts, I keep them in the bag trapped between me and the chair arm so the dog can't get at them. If we have company the wife makes me put them in a bowl. 































Cashew's are my favourite............what?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Cilla the Pillar Drill. I like that. She can drill a lorra lorra holes.

The rest of you are very naughty indeed.

I've not done any work down there today. This morning it was piddling down and I wasn't in the mood. I've done shopping and ironing instead. Don't like doing that either, but I was completely out of red wine, so needs must.

But I promised you some better photos, so I've just nipped down there.












I'd filled all the drilling pits with car body filler when I did the original refurb, when I first got it.






This is the handle I was derusting.






Some of the paint is coming off, though 






And some of the handles are plated and not faring too well






I'm wondering how much it would cost to have them done. There is a platers just round the corner, I might enquire. Has anyone had such work done before? How do I know if they are chrome plated or nickel plated? What's the difference (apart from the obvious)? Does it matter? There would be the three arms of the handle assembly and the head clamp.

But isn't she beautiful?

I have a q about electrolytic derusting. I put a chisel in overnight and it has stopped working. There are no bubbles and the chisel is not done. A bit, but not as I expected. The charger is still buzzing quietly. Any ideas?


----------



## Racers

Hi Steve

Bad connection or to much rust on your anode.

Pete


----------



## HOJ

Hi Steve

I would change the water and soda solution for a fresh start, and a clean anode.

I generally change the solution for every different part I clean.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you both, I'll try that.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I hate having to do jobs twice, it means I did it wrong in the first place, I also know from bitter experience that it's better to redo it than ignore it and carry on regardless. So it is with my window trim.

You will remember that I left it looking like this:






Those bottom rails are cut from 4x1, just like the rest. But by the time they are bevelled, they are well under 4". The bottom rail can be wider than the others, but not narrower, it just looks wrong. And I also have that awkward gap underneath to deal with. So there was nothing for it but to put it right.

I'd worked out that I needed to remove only the bottom and side rails.






and trim off the caulk






Then cut and fit a wider, replacement, bottom rail






So after re-caulking and fitting a few more pieces of cladding, it looks like it should have done in the first place.






BTW, I've rebuilt my TS guard, but forgot to take a piccy. Sorry.


----------



## AndyT

Even just in photos, that looks better.

And with the rest of the build looking so magnificent, I'm sure you made the right decision there, though I do agree on how annoying it is to redo a job you thought you had finished.


----------



## Owl

Looking really good Steve.


----------



## Titch

if my new box looks 10% as good ill be happy
fantastic job and i need a "RAY" not sure i have one but im sure as hell going to try find him

this post is addictive


----------



## Steve Maskery

The day started badly. I woke at 4am with a sore throat and didn't get back to sleep. So I've been waiting all day for the cold to manifest itself.I was not in the mood for working, but there is no hanging about with Ray, so I had no choice.

The first job was to set up a string line, setting the left hand end first






and then the RH end






And then putting up the brackets


























Put the outlet and and cap ends on






and test it out


----------



## Steve Maskery

After lunch we turned our attention to the rest of the drainage

Most of the trench had already been dug, but it wasn't quite right yet, so we got our levels right using a water tube. The red food colouring trick works well to make it all more visible.






Some of the fittings were very difficult to put together, but a couple of minutes in boiling water and they stop fighting






The drain pipe is not the only one we need to bury. We are putting in a water supply for use at some indeterminate point in the future. It's not going to be operational yet, but as we have it, it is easier to put it in now than later. The pipe is hard so a hair-dryer makes it a bit softer for putting in the inserts.











So now we are all done apart from the backfilling
















I'm glad the day's over. I feel miserable, despite the progress, and although the sky looks blue in many of the pictures, in reality we have had a lot of wind and rain. It changes in just a couple of minutes. I'm cold. I think I might just have to have some medicine from north of the border.


----------



## Titch

i think you earned the fire water, enjoy we await the next installment.
brightens up my day in the office


----------



## Logger

As a newbie to this forum, i have been catching up with your progress and it is very impressive. Makes me very embarrassed that i still haven't fixed the felt on my shed! What is equally impressive is remembering to photo each stage. The number of times i have even failed to take before and after photos when i wanted to is absurd. 

Looking forward to the next instalment.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I woke up feeling grim. Sore throat is no worse, but no better either. I went back to bed after the crossword. That was a big mistake, because although I slept another 3 hours, I had a horrible dream.

I never used to dream. I can't remember dreaming since I was a kid. But I watched a Horizon program about dreaming a couple of months ago and since then I've been dreaming. Not every night, but fairly often. I do realise how ridiculous it sounds, but I assure you it is the case. I hate it.

Anyway, it meant I didn't see much of the morning, but when I did finally get going I took a car-load of stuff to the tip. Bags of clay and rubble we dug out of the soakaway and trench, plasterboard that was covering the windows until I put the glass in.

Then I filled in the trench. How Ray does this digging lark all day long is beyond me.






Then it was back to doing some trim, this time the door The framing is a bit out of true, but I was able to shim some of the door lining trim to make it much closer to vertical. With the trim in place and caulked, you'd never know there was anything wrong with it.











I need to remove the cladding from the sides and back of the building. There is a couple of metres of it on the sides, a bit less on the back. But the nails were not designed to be pulled out easily. I have removed one board and damaged it. I hope it does not mean that I have to scrap it all, I was hoping to re-use it for the rest of the front and the soffits. The one I did get off I was able to use for a bit more on the front, round the door, though.






It looks a bit scruffy really, some parts painted, some not. Some of the bits that are painted have got dirty since being painted. It's only one coat, so I need to do the whole lot again, anyway.

No more dreams, please.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve I often have vivid dreams when ill. Recently when I had my 6 week flu bug I went through a few days of sleeping for ten minutes then waking from one dream or another. I think it's to do with infection, older people (yes there are some), hallucinate when they have infections. My mum went through a terrible 3 week period with it in her 70's all down to a chest infection. She was seeing all sorts of people and things, at all hours too. I imagine it's the same thing but in a lesser form.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was hoping to get the front trim finished today, but the weather has not been very nice, so I worked inside instead.

It's great having my saw and P/T back in use. I love the smell of sawdust in the morning.

In over the top






out from underneath






Then it was ripping time, having fixed my TS guard






Some nailing and caulking






And all the foamy gaps are covered up and it looks neat.

I did consider using architrave to match the doors, but I would have a problem with the muntins. Had I had my RT set up I'd have at least run a small bevel, but as it was I just used it all plain. Simple and neat.


----------



## Brentingby

Nice!


----------



## John15

Looking good Steve

John


----------



## monkeybiter

I'm stating to get a bit worried, progress is good and the end is in sight. You're in danger of actually finishing this build, with nothing left for when you get around to it. 
I don't think it's supposed to work that way. In fact according to SWMBO all my jobs have been taken to a state of near completion, never knowingly finished. 
I think you should consider overlooking or forgetting something, for the sake of men's reputations everywhere.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Mike, at the risk of turning a nice bit of frivolity into a serious discussion, you are closer to the mark than you might realise.

The last proper piece of furniture I made for my last house was a chevalier mirror. There were other things I would have like to have made, such as a modern grandfather clock, but there was no space left for anything else.

I'd been building the home for 18 years, it was my contribution to the domestic economy, whilst my BXW went out to work and earned the money. I really was worried what I was going to do when there was no more furniture to make.

In the event the decision was made for me...

But I'm in the same position here. It is all I've wanted for as long as I can remember. It's getting closer, and then what? I've actually got to start using it. OK, I do need some furniture. Like everything. Bed Wardrobe. Table and chairs Sideboard of some kind. I have no storage in this house other than the kitchen cabinets.

But all that is not going to take for ever, and then what? Wanted,_ raison d'être._


----------



## lurker

The obvious thing to me is to turn the front part of the log cabin into a showroom very soon and get some of the furniture you have already made on display, as an example of your capabilities and wait for the commissions to roll in.


----------



## monkeybiter

I've come to the conclusion, over the course of many crises of confidence and motivation, that how your 'results' are valued, either by you or others, is quite unimportant. The time we've got left is much less than the time it's taken to get here, so sodd it and just aim for enjoyment. 
Whether you enjoy making tools, jigs, furniture or firewood, all that really matters when that unseen bus nudges you off this mortal coil; have you enjoyed yourself as much as you reasonably can, or have you just wasted your time worrying when it will arrive. Just enjoy that smell of sawdust. Maybe keep some freshly cut in your bedroom, it might even promote nicer dreams.


----------



## brianhabby

monkeybiter":2xv7bl6j said:


> I've come to the conclusion, over the course of many crises of confidence and motivation, that how your 'results' are valued, either by you or others, is quite unimportant. The time we've got left is much less than the time it's taken to get here, so sodd it and just aim for enjoyment.
> Whether you enjoy making tools, jigs, furniture or firewood, all that really matters when that unseen bus nudges you off this mortal coil; have you enjoyed yourself as much as you reasonably can, or have you just wasted your time worrying when it will arrive. Just enjoy that smell of sawdust. Maybe keep some freshly cut in your bedroom, it might even promote nicer dreams.



Amen to that Mike.

regards 

Brian


----------



## PAC1

Steve Maskery":bbve8hrp said:


> ...
> 
> But I'm in the same position here. It is all I've wanted for as long as I can remember. It's getting closer, and then what? I've actually got to start using it. OK, I do need some furniture. Like everything. Bed Wardrobe. Table and chairs Sideboard of some kind. I have no storage in this house other than the kitchen cabinets.
> 
> But all that is not going to take for ever, and then what? Wanted,_ raison d'être._



Steve, the lack of things to make does not stop the rest of us from spending time in our caves! I am yet to get to the end of my list and even if I did I have a longer wish list of things I want to make just because I can. 
I thought your cave was also to be a studio for the production of the New Workshop Essentials series and looks big enough for the Workshop Essentials training courses, though you may need some new jumpers :lol: 8)


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":bnijx667 said:


> But all that is not going to take for ever, and then what? Wanted,_ raison d'être._



Online woodworking school similar to Rob Cosman?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'm very flattered by you all! I fear my skills are not in that league.

It's true I do have a couple more DVDs in my head, but I am rapidly running out of what I know, and I genuinely believe that the reason that my DVDs are so well-regarded is because I know exactly what I'm talking about. If I start broadening into areas where I don't I'm sure my reputation will suffer! We'll see.
S


----------



## AES

My goodness Monkeybiter (Mike) I really thought I am the only one (or one of the very few)!

I so often start something off with a very clear picture in my mind of something I'm going to make, and (in my mind - and even on the dimensioned sketches) the picture looks absolutely pristine. But a L-O-N-G time later the reality so often looks more than "somewhat different"  

But you're quite right, as long as I've (mostly!) enjoyed the journey then regardless of what anyone else may say or think, I think I've maybe won something. And I do also think that I may be slowly but surely improving just a bit. And I'm anyway so S-L-O-W that I'll never run out of stuff on my roundtoit list.

But in any case it saves me hanging around on street corners chasing loose women (fat chance at my age)!

:? 

Cheers
AES


----------



## CHJ

Steve Maskery":k6tf768x said:


> I'm very flattered by you all! I fear my skills are not in that league.
> 
> It's true I do have a couple more DVDs in my head, but I am rapidly running out of what I know, and I genuinely believe that the reason that my DVDs are so well-regarded is because I know exactly what I'm talking about. If I start broadening into areas where I don't I'm sure my reputation will suffer! We'll see.
> S


Well when you reach the limit of your knowledge/machine shop technique skills that you think are of a high enough standard to provide an example to others, use your filming and narrating skills to present other specialists in other aspects of woodwork who have the knowledge but not the facilities to produce the videos.


----------



## Noggsy

Looking good Steve. If it is a serious point you're making, then I wouldn't waste a second on it. Someone with the repetoire that you have can simply start making things for fun, or to sell, or to make a friend's child smile. How nice to have the skills, time and facilities to be able to do that. A couple more DVDs will take some time to make, edit and market. Then you'll have ten more ideas which crop up while that's going on. CHJ's idea is a good one and there's also running small classes from your new palace (shed). You've also got to write the article/series/book about this build. 

I've heard you say a few times about jigs you've made which you could now improve on, so you could revisit earlier DVDs and update them. Chris Schwarz is now re-writing his first workbench book and I think that's a healthy attitude...always trying to get better and share your knowledge. 

I'm exhausted just typing all that...should keep you going for a year or so


----------



## StevieB

Steve - seriously think there is the scope for you to make DVDs of actually making objects rather than demonstrating equipment. Think Norm for the UK market - you have shown people how to set up a workshop, now show them what you can do with it!

Steve


----------



## Graham Orm

Rob Cosman simply films himself making stuff. I think he does 3 shows a week. You don't have to do that many, just make a batch of say, 6 shows making a side table, then post it as a series. A Brit based Woodwork channel on YT would be most welcome. Yes lots do the same, but it's the presentation that makes the difference. Lots of guys think you tune in to see them sat talking to the camera, the clever ones do the talking whilst showing the woodworking. Obviously if you mess up, you re-take the shot. It would be an excellent platform for selling your videos and if you get enough views I believe YT pays as well.

I don't know how familiar you are with Sketchup, but you could offer the plans to go with your creations too. The smaller and simpler the projects are the more takers you will get. If you go for big complex things most will find it daunting.

Jay Bates 102,500 subscribers https://www.youtube.com/user/Jayscustom ... s/featured
John Heisz 161,90 subscribers https://www.youtube.com/user/jpheisz/about
Steve Ramsay 402,000 subscribers https://www.youtube.com/user/stevinmarin/about

Have a look at the standard of the stuff they do Steve, particularly Steve Ramsay who has the biggest following by far. How would you like to market your videos to 400,000 woodworking fans.............completely free of charge? you'll pay for that workshop in no time and have a ball doing it.


EDIT: This guy has one of the best presentation methods https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDu5-dJX2Cg I've exchanged messages with him. He says everything is filmed in real time, which means that it all has to be done quickly with minimum fuss. That leads to a fast interesting format. You could do the same but record and edit it, and present it as though filmed in real time.


----------



## Adam9453

How about taking on a paying student, other woodworking schools charge substantial amounts of money for a years full time course. You could perhaps offer shorter courses, cheaper courses, longer courses, well whatever you can think of, I'm sure the adage of "if you build it, they will come" would apply


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, yes, I also think that Projects may be the way to go, but I really do think that many people underestimate the amount of work that goes into the video production (or at least, ones like mine that have many shots - if you are just filming a lecture it is much easier and quicker) and overestimate the monetary value of it when you've done it.

I've been selling my stuff for 8 years and IN TOTAL I've not made enough to come anywhere close to paying for this workshop. This is vanity publishing, that is all. Yes, I have 4000 YT subscribers, but that doesn't mean I have 4000 customers willing to hand over their money! I wish it did. Everybody wants something for nothing. Well, I do, anyway.

The Australian guy was interesting. Well presented. Do I have to get a dog? Did you notice the frame at the end? Made with the assistance of the Community Broadcasting Foundation Limited. I'll have to investigate if there is an equivalent organisation over here. It would be much easier if I were funded.

But I will be making new videos, I just don't know what kind yet. Lots of food for thought. Thanks guys.


----------



## Penny

Steve. It's been a year+ since your last Youtube video. I find Youtube a brilliant resource for learning techniques. Get some more made. Even get people to message you and do an 'Ask Steve' type thing. I can see it being a winner.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've done the rest of the front trim today. Well, apart from the corners, which I can't do until we board the sides, but all the door and window trim is now done.

Some of the framing is not quite as vertical as I intended it to be, so some shimming is required. This is the RH side of the big door. This is the most shimming I've had to do, the other side was much closer to plumb.







But it does mean that I can rip the trim properly parallel and it will fit, no tapering boards to annoy the eye. So with the trim nailed up






and painted






it ends up looking like this






so everything has now had one coat.

I am not the world's best painter. I don't like doing it and I tend to get careless and sloppy. I've got paint on bits I didn't mean to. Like the mahogany door frame. I don't know whether to try to scrape it off or paint the rest of the frame.


----------



## Brentingby

Very nice looking shed, Steve. Was the mahogany already finished? Maybe you can get the paint off without too much trouble. The decking in front looks like it needs a few more planks so you don't fall through.


----------



## Steve Maskery

You're not kidding. We put it down there because it was getting so muddy along the front, but actually it is lethal. Given my fear of falling again, I really should do something about it. I'm looking forward to when it is all landscaped properly.

The mahogany doesn't have any finish on it yet.


----------



## Graham Orm

Hanging baskets? Maybe a swinging seat? Looking good Steve.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Certainly the former, I'd not thought of the latter but the trusses would take one, no problem.

Or a hammock.


----------



## wcndave

Personally I can't wait to finish all the things I _have_ to make, so i can start on all the things I want to make, other than workbench and arcade machine it's been all need rather than desire.


----------



## lurker

Steve Maskery":1lpq3x0k said:


> I'm very flattered by you all! I fear my skills are not in that league.
> 
> S



I have seen your stuff in the flesh
It is good enough to sell, you might not make a living out of it but I assume that's not the goal
You just need to find the market


----------



## Steve Maskery

lurker":agv9m6xm said:


> I have seen your stuff in the flesh
> It is good enough to sell, you might not make a living out of it but I assume that's not the goal
> 
> You just need to find the market



You just need to find the market

<Brucie> And that's all there is to it </Brucie>

Ha-ha. Thank you Jim, thank you very much. I just wish I had your optimism, I really do.

But how many furniture makers do you know who pay their way? Ones who are not married to a doctor, dentist, management consultant, teacher, lawyer...

Most have a safety net, as I used to have. Perhaps there are some. I hope there are, I'd love to be proved wrong.

I've been self-employed for nearly 25 years and so I do know how difficult it is. I think it is difficult if you are a genius, and I am no genius. There are a few things I'm good at, and presenting stuff is one of them. I have had one brilliant idea in my entire life and you could count the interested parties on the legs of a centipede.

Selling my work would not be difficult. It is, as you say, good enough.

I once asked someone who admired my (rather magnificently wonderfully comfortable) dining chairs and said they were good enough to sell, what he thought they would fetch. 

"Why, you'd pay £150, maybe even more for those in IKEA".

When I pointed out that a set of 8 had taken up 3 months of my life, virtually full-time, from concept to design, through mock-up, prototype to one-off set to upholstery, and asked him if he would work for 3 months for £1200 minus the several hundred pounds worth of outlay, he said "Oh".

This is an intelligent, educated, professional bloke. A scientist in a pharma company. That is what we are up against.

Selling it at a profit, now that's the challenge.


----------



## Woodmonkey

Looking great Steve, if all else fails I reckon that would make a great little holiday let!

Joking aside, I reckon teaching is the way to go, looks like a perfect space to learn some woodworking


----------



## riclepp

Woodmonkey":t4vwxypf said:


> Looking great Steve, if all else fails I reckon that would make a great little holiday let!
> 
> Joking aside, I reckon teaching is the way to go, looks like a perfect space to learn some woodworking



And that lies the pandoras box. For teaching, Steve would require some forms of teacher training (ketals, petels, cert ed etc), a higher level of cover on his insurance, risk assessment, method statements policy, procedures, fire risk assessments, fire warning and detection systems, welfare facilities for the student/s, teaching syllabus etc and this would be before getting a student. I have no doubt Steve would make a fine teacher, but as he indicated that the cost for making video is highly underestimated and that goes for teaching too. There is also the cost for ppm's and maintenance for the tools.

So it is not just a case of "I'm now going to teach and make a tidy packet of cash". Steve would also be a sole trader and if a student is injured, it would be Steve who could be prosecuted and he would be a sole trader on his own. Not that I am saying that is going to happen. But as in everything there are the numerous hidden cost to be considered.

Nice workshop and have been enjoying the thread.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Late start again today but once I did get going everything went quite well.

First I primed the window trim inside. I forgot to take a pic of me doing it, but this is what it looks like now







I thought of painting the white trim outside as well, but white is dazzling and I'm photosensitive, so I'd rather do that on an overcast day.

Instead I turned my attention to the soffit supports. The soffit is the outside ceiling, covering the trusses. This would often be flat horizontal, but I can't do that because of the lights. The alternative option would be to nail directly onto the trusses, but there would be a problem right at the top where the electric cables are, and I've already trimmed the trusses at the bottom end. If I hadn't, I would have needed a very deep fascia. So I'm going to do a bit of both, a sort of zig-zag.

So I notched some short lengths of scrap. Some are 3x2, some are 4x2











And in writing this post and editing the pictures, I've found the ring magnet I've been looking for. I knew I had it, but I have no idea why I stuck it to the bandsaw.

Then I nailed them up one at each end. Unfortunately the Paslode was dead, so I had to use a hammer. I don't mind, but it doesn't half exacerbate my tennis elbow. I've cropped the picture to spare you the sight of a very fat belly exposed.






A string between the two gives me a nice straight line






Fortunately the Paslode charged up fairly quickly, so by the time I'd faffed about with one or two other things it was charged up and ready to use











The Community Workshop is closed for a couple of weeks, so I think Ray might be coming tomorrow.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray wanted to get the holes filled in before we did anything else, so we did.






Hole, what hole?






The is also the bit down the side






With that done, we turned outr attention to getting the cladding off. You will have figured out by now, I am sure, that I cocked up here. Having wooden cladding on the front is fine and the BCO is happy with that, but he is not happy with it on the sides and back because of the proximity of the building to the boundary. I have only myself to blame, but it's a mistake that is going to cost me dearly. 

I'd levered one board off, but done some damage in the process. Ray suggested that, as we were going to have nail holes anyway, why not "just" punch the nails all the way through. He'd brought along a drift punch and I had a DW nail set. and we hammered away. It was noisy and Ray was concerned that we would upset the neighbours I was concerned that my tennis elbow would explode.

Fortunately, Ray's pin punch bent under the strain so we had only one. I very kindly lent mine to Ray so he could carry on.






It worked well and the boards came off with little damage bar the nail holes.






It's not very often I catch Ray sitting down on the job. Lazy beggar.






So whilst Ray was doing that, I was filling the nail holes with caulk and painting the boards white. I'm going to use them for the soffit. I would have used V T&G, but as I have all this shiplap, it seems daft not to use it.






I didn't paint all of it white, some is going to be used at the top of the front. This bit took us ages. 

First we cleared the mess from the front. Well, we moved the mess from one place to another, to be more accurate.






But I'm glad we did it, I've come close to doing myself a mischief on more than one occasion.

The problem is that, working from the bottom up, it is very difficult to maintain level between the areas to the left of the big door, between the doors and to the right of the man-door. And although they were close, there was no cigar on offer. So we had to trim a few tongues and rework them to lose about 16mm in total. Some of the boards on the left are now narrower than they were originally. But TBH, you would never know. Even I think it's unnoticeable, and I know it's there. In fact, now that we have a course over the complete length, the line is good.


----------



## Steve Maskery

And of course, we had to take the lights off and then replace them. Only whereas they were straight before, they are now a bit wonky, so we are going to have to sort that out, but not today.

So as the sun descends over the yardarm it looks like this. It was a lot of work to put right a cockup, but it's looking good, I reckon.





And from the landing it looks virtually finished






Ray's back next week, but we have also moved (what's left of) my router table down to the workshop. It looks very forlorn indeed. I could weep, I really could, but I'm going to try to resurrect it, so I'm not short of tasks to do before he comes again.


----------



## Brentingby

Looking nice there, Steve.

Do you need to get out the grey paint and do a bit of touch up on the front? <ducking>


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's had only one coat, but it's easier to paint on trestles than on the wall, so one coat before it goes up and a second to cover the filled nail holes.
So why not come over and wield a paint brush for an hour or two, eh? Eh?


----------



## Adam9453

What are you going to have to clad the boundary walls in now Steve, something non combustible I presume?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I have a short list of two. Neither perfect, but both will satisfy the BCO.
I'll keep you posted.
S


----------



## Brentingby

Steve Maskery":1lq3ma4i said:


> So why not come over and wield a paint brush for an hour or two, eh? Eh?



I'd love to but I think I hear my mum calling me.


----------



## beech1948

What is really frustrating is that there are no recorded cases of sheds spontaneously combusting. Shed fires have occurred but by human action either criminal or accidental. I know what the planning laws say but as we know the law is an asinine institution.

I'm curious about what you are going to use......cement based panels?, plastic ?, slate tiles, cement tiles, felt tiles.?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've finished the front cladding today. Not a lot you can say about it!






I was quite pleased about how it lined up at the top. The biggest problem was that I couldn't get the top strip on over the one below it, even though I'd allowed some clearance to do that. If Ray had been here we probably would have managed it between us, but on my own, not a hope. I spent ages trying but eventually gave up and cut off the back of the groove to make a rebate. It looks the same and once the soffit is on there will be no gap at all.

There was one board that had got broken along the way.






I decided to replace it. I just hacked it out and slid in a new piece.











And that is how I discovered why I was so far adrift yesterday with the alignment of the boards. I had been as careful as I could to ensure that I'd started level, but I was 16mm or so too high on the left. This was the reason






I'd not bedded them all down properly, and it doesn't take many of those to get very out of line. But never mind, it's a shed, not a palace and I like what it looks like.


----------



## SteveF

Steve Maskery":1h1ore9z said:


> I've finished the front cladding today. Not a lot you can say about it!
> 
> 
> 
> I was quite pleased about how it lined up at the top. The biggest problem was that I couldn't get the top strip on over the one below it, even though I'd allowed some clearance to do that. If Ray had been here we probably would have managed it between us, but on my own, not a hope. I spent ages trying but eventually gave up and cut off the back of the groove to make a rebate. It looks the same and once the soffit is on there will be no gap at all.
> 
> There was one board that had got broken along the way.
> 
> 
> I decided to replace it. I just hacked it out and slid in a new piece.
> 
> 
> 
> And that is how I discovered why I was so far adrift yesterday with the alignment of the boards. I had been as careful as I could to ensure that I'd started level, but I was 16mm or so too high on the left. This was the reason
> 
> 
> 
> I'd not bedded them all down properly, and it doesn't take many of those to get very out of line. But never mind, it's a shed, not a palace and I like what it looks like.




Hi Steve

are u not worried about shrinkage and a gap opening ?

Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well if that does happen I'll simply strip off that left-hand section of boards and replace them from the top down. It's not an enormous amount of work.
S


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2jkhka4o said:


> it's a shed, not a palace



I've been thinking the exact opposite from approx. half way into this thread!


----------



## n0legs

Fairplay Steve that's a lovely looking building at the bottom of the garden, much better than the original.


----------



## Woody2Shoes

RSJs - My trick for moving large steel/timber beams is to use stone-age technology - make a 'trackway' with a couple of scaffolding boards or similar and three or four 'rollers' made from short pieces of scaffolding tube or similar. You can move a n00 Kg beam with one finger - not so easy up/down hill though! Cheers W2S


----------



## JakeS

beech1948":3fva6vk8 said:


> What is really frustrating is that there are no recorded cases of sheds spontaneously combusting. Shed fires have occurred but by human action either criminal or accidental. I know what the planning laws say but as we know the law is an asinine institution.



Isn't the point more that regardless of whether it's by accident or design, sheds _do_ sometimes burn down and they don't want your shed setting fire to your neighbour's house/shed/cat/etc. if it does go up?

If some guy builds a shed right up against the back of his neighbour's house, and then goes out in the middle of summer to oil a load of wood, stuffs the rags in the bin against the wall and then leaves, the fact that he never intended to set his shed on fire is cold comfort to the neighbour whose house was burned down while he was on holiday...


----------



## blackrodd

JakeS":unxnqtgi said:


> beech1948":unxnqtgi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is really frustrating is that there are no recorded cases of sheds spontaneously combusting. Shed fires have occurred but by human action either criminal or accidental. I know what the planning laws say but as we know the law is an asinine institution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't the point more that regardless of whether it's by accident or design, sheds _do_ sometimes burn down and they don't want your shed setting fire to your neighbour's house/shed/cat/etc. if it does go up?
> 
> If some guy builds a shed right up against the back of his neighbour's house, and then goes out in the middle of summer to oil a load of wood, stuffs the rags in the bin against the wall and then leaves, the fact that he never intended to set his shed on fire is cold comfort to the neighbour whose house was burned down while he was on holiday...
Click to expand...



A friend of mine lost his motorbike collection as some kids had set light to the fence, in the allotments behind his shed.
All the inside lot was burnt or melted, fence gone and insurance company being their usual slippery selves, 
Looking for a way out of paying!
So I would say It's not a bad idea for fire precautions, as unlikely as it may seem.
Regards Rodders


----------



## Phil Pascoe

A year since the first post the day after tomorrow. Any celebrations planned?


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":3ogxhhc6 said:


> Yes, I have a short list of two. Neither perfect, but both will satisfy the BCO.
> I'll keep you posted.
> S



Couldn't you have gone over the top of the cladding and re-trimmed the corners?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'd been turning my attention to the soffits and had got stuck. What to do here?







I knew I needed to end the soffit with some kind of box, and there is a nursing home nearby with a similar construction, but the details were eluding me. Eventually the penny dropped and I realised I was making it far more complicated than it needed to be.

So I made a box end from a piece of OSB






and attached some lath to support the ends of the boards, positioned so there would be a little bit of an overhang






Then, with a lot of palaver, I screwed it in place. It was very difficult to do single handedly - board, spirit level, screwdriver, screw - it would be much easier with two. But I did get it up and then didn't take a photo. Sorry, but this is where it went and what it looks like now.






I'll attach another piece to go with the slope of the trusses.

I want to do as little overhead painting as possible, so I figured I'd give the cladding two coats before it goes up and finish the front wall while I'm at it so that I don't contaminate one with the other. 

So I popped a few nails, spread a little caulk and painted. Both the grey and the white have now had two coats of paint.











I did manage to get a few lengths up but it is too difficult for one, I'm going to leave the rest until Ray comes. I need a holder-of-the-other-end.











Ad so as it started to rain on my newly painted batch of boards for next time  it looks like this


----------



## Shultzy

Steve, the answer to your soffit dilemma is on page 3 of my workshop build, about half way down. Screw a few loose laths on and twist them into position to hold the soffit board and nail on.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hey, Steve, nice to hear from you. Long time no see.
That is a very good idea, I'll try it. It might make getting the T&G to mate considerably easier.
Thank you
S


----------



## Shultzy

Glad you remembered me. I could have offered you my coil nailer and nails if I had seen the start of your build but I'd been doing other things.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Now he tells me!!

S


----------



## Wizard9999

Graham Orm":1i8fx9sa said:


> Steve Maskery":1i8fx9sa said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have a short list of two. Neither perfect, but both will satisfy the BCO.
> I'll keep you posted.
> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you have gone over the top of the cladding and re-trimmed the corners?
Click to expand...


I think Steve has done the right thing removing the cladding first, no point pushing his luck any further. To be honest the outcome with the BCO is as good as I think could have been expected, my read of the rules is that once you are within 1 metre of the boundary the building has to be non-combustable not just the part within 1 metre, so the BCO is being pretty reasonable IMHO. Steve must have been very persuasive, but then that doesn't surprise me as I have always been stunned as to how he managed to get planning consent for a workshop that big relative to the size of the space it is being built in and so close to the neighbours' gardens, especially with (if I understand correctly from mentions of a log cabin) another outbuilding already in the garden.

You said a few days ago that you wondered what you would do with yourself after the build Steve, how about planning and building reg's representation for others wanting to put up a workshop :lol: .

Terry.


----------



## Graham Orm

Wizard9999":2pb47em6 said:


> Graham Orm":2pb47em6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Maskery":2pb47em6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I have a short list of two. Neither perfect, but both will satisfy the BCO.
> I'll keep you posted.
> S
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Couldn't you have gone over the top of the cladding and re-trimmed the corners?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Steve has done the right thing removing the cladding first, no point pushing his luck any further. To be honest the outcome with the BCO is as good as I think could have been expected, my read of the rules is that once you are within 1 metre of the boundary the building has to be non-combustable not just the part within 1 metre, so the BCO is being pretty reasonable IMHO. Steve must have been very persuasive, but then that doesn't surprise me as I have always been stunned as to how he managed to get planning consent for a workshop that big relative to the size of the space it is being built in and so close to the neighbours' gardens, especially with (if I understand correctly from mentions of a log cabin) another outbuilding already in the garden.
> 
> You said a few days ago that you wondered what you would do with yourself after the build Steve, how about planning and building reg's representation for others wanting to put up a workshop :lol: .
> 
> Terry.
Click to expand...


The thing is everything within the wall is combustible, by putting a non combustible layer outside you are stopping the flame reaching the neighbours for long enough for the fire brigade to arrive. By cloaking the existing cladding you still add that same layer of protection and the cladding adds to insulation. Anyway, it's done now so all hypothetical.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today, as Phil pointed out, is one year to the day since I removed that first roofing bolt. Little did I realise what I was taking on.
So happy Birthday to me!
No work today, I'm going walking.
S


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":3r8ysvdc said:


> Little did I realise what I was taking on.
> 
> S



Worth it though mate :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

n0legs":4v5ko3bk said:


> Worth it though mate :wink:



Possibly. But the jury is still out, I'd say.


----------



## lanemaux

I'm managing to be both jealous of you and happy for you at the same time amigo. Not far to go now , Xanadu is just over that next rise. Hoist something in mug or glass for me amigo , as I'm definitely with you in spirit (spirit , get it?). And her ladyship even had a bit to toast your years anniversary. A rare occurence indeed !


----------



## Steve Maskery

You will remember that I had started to build the soffit box end, so today I continued.

I fitted a second piece of OSB so I had some support for the ends of the boards which come down the trusses






This is what it looks like from the outside






I pinned up some more lengths and was delighted to find that the widths worked out perfectly. Pure fluke, I assure you.






I've also started to make the box end at the RH side as well. Notice the use of a couple of Shultzies (TM) to support the boards.






So this is how the day ends. I've cut a board half an inch too short and dropped my nice ring magnet which has shattered  but otherwise the day has gone smoothly. Slowly, yes, but smoothly.


----------



## Harry 48

Slow and steady win's the race Steve (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's been a nuisance to find a way of having my drill to hand. It's a bit heavy to put in the tin, it's always on the brink of tipping out. So I made this






It works brilliantly.

I finished the soffit box ends today. Well I thought I had, I've forgotten the back face of the RH one.


























Ray's coming tomorrow. I'm glad about that because I've run out of cladding (well the stuff that's already been used) and I don't really want to use the virgin stuff. But it's just too painful to get it off. So I'm hoping Ray can take them off while I paint and put them up.


----------



## Racers

Looking good Steve.

Pete


----------



## Noel

Well done Steve, shop is looking very good. Great progress.
Thread will soon be 100 pages. 130 or so posts to go. And I'm sure it'll get to 100,000 views too.


----------



## Racers

129 now  

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

It is so much easier with two. We have finished the soffit, well the cladding part of it anyway, it needs caulking and another coat of paint. The boards have had two but it's still patchy.

As there were two of us we could handle longer lengths, but that meant erecting the scaffolding again







I filled and painted boards whilst Ray removed the rest of them from the RH side. Both sides are clean again now, just the back to remove and there aren't so many there.

When the paint was dry, we could start to put up again.






When I'd originally trimmed the trusses, I hadn't appreciated just how much it matters that they are all in line. Mine are not, so there was quite a bit of trimming and packing out to do. The end result is good, but it's a bit like a pork pie, you really don't want to know what's involved in creating it.






The last run was not a full width, and we had to remove the back of the groove to get it in, but I was pleased that the width of it varies by no more than 6mm in total from one end to the other. Over 8.5m I reckon that's not bad for a pair of amateurs. The only bit that was more out than that was the last 15" or so, and that is because the fascia board is bowed but the end result still looks OK.











We had a couple of things that held up up today. As well as the wonky trusses I'd put up the end support of the box in the wrong place so the boards didn't lie properly, but once we'd realised that was the problem, it was straightforward to sort out.

We finished late, but we finished. I still have the back of the RH box end to do and there is a load of caulking and painting to do, but I'm really pleased with what it looks like.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

blimey Steve....that's a veritable "veranda". All you need now is a rocking chair and a banjo and you'll be well away.


----------



## paulm

You should be pleased Steve, it's looking great 

Cheers, Paul


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## John15

Looking good Steve

John


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've not done a lot lately, not a lot of anything. Sleeping when I shouldn't. Zero energy for anything, even things I like doing. It's not quite a return to the dark days, but I don't like it.

So not a lot to show.

On Friday I did give the patchy soffit another coat of paint, it's not perfect but it is a lot better. I'm not giving it another one, it can stay like that. It's not bad.






Nothing over the weekend and today I've spent more time in the kitchen than I have in the workshop. I made a batch of Stokie Oatcakes. It was gone 4 o'clock before I finally managed to drag myself down there and all I've done is empty my shopvac and paint the window frames. I have various tins of paint in the house and I could have sworn I had a tin of white eggshell. But I can't find it. I've used a bit of a can I bought for the bathroom, but once I'd put it on I didn't like it, far too cold. Tori. It doesn't look great here, either, but at least it's being used up. At £50 a tin it is too expensive just to dump and I'm fed up of sinking money into this.






Ray's found me a length of worktop and a kitchen sink, so we are going over tomorrow to collect it. I've also found a length of worktop in my mum's garage. It must be 20 years old, but it still has the film on it. There is some water damage to it but mainly at the ends and it is long enough to cut them off and still be enough.

The garage roof has collapsed, so my bro and I are charged with the task of fixing it. It means removing what's left of the cement/asbestos-type corrugations and replacing them with corroline. But corroline requires more support than the meccano roof has, so we are going to cover it with OSB first. Which means that I will be able to get rid of a lot of the stack that is left over and taking up a lot of space in the corner.


----------



## dc_ni

Steve Maskery":2a7ryexi said:


> I made a batch of Stokie Oatcakes.



They bring back memories, lived in Stafford for many years. A lot of the people I worked with were big fans of the oatcake, never did anything for me though.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":1pnrelwi said:


> ...I'm fed up of sinking money into this.



Sure a space that size doesn't come cheap, but you are so close now Steve the vast majority of the cost (and effort) must be sunk into it by now. A bit of a push for the next few weeks and I'm sure you'll be there.

Terry.


----------



## marcros

Steve Maskery":251tl1o1 said:


> I've not done a lot lately, not a lot of anything. Sleeping when I shouldn't. Zero energy for anything, even things I like doing. It's not quite a return to the dark days, but I don't like it.
> 
> So not a lot to show.
> 
> On Friday I did give the patchy soffit another coat of paint, it's not perfect but it is a lot better. I'm not giving it another one, it can stay like that. It's not bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing over the weekend and today I've spent more time in the kitchen than I have in the workshop. I made a batch of Stokie Oatcakes. It was gone 4 o'clock before I finally managed to drag myself down there and all I've done is empty my shopvac and paint the window frames. I have various tins of paint in the house and I could have sworn I had a tin of white eggshell. But I can't find it. I've used a bit of a can I bought for the bathroom, but once I'd put it on I didn't like it, far too cold. Tori. It doesn't look great here, either, but at least it's being used up. At £50 a tin it is too expensive just to dump and I'm fed up of sinking money into this.
> 
> 
> 
> Ray's found me a length of worktop and a kitchen sink, so we are going over tomorrow to collect it. I've also found a length of worktop in my mum's garage. It must be 20 years old, but it still has the film on it. There is some water damage to it but mainly at the ends and it is long enough to cut them off and still be enough.
> 
> The garage roof has collapsed, so my bro and I are charged with the task of fixing it. It means removing what's left of the cement/asbestos-type corrugations and replacing them with corroline. But corroline requires more support than the meccano roof has, so we are going to cover it with OSB first. Which means that I will be able to get rid of a lot of the stack that is left over and taking up a lot of space in the corner.



I would check that the local tip will take asbestos type material before you load it in your car. My father had some issues with the same sort of stuff. It wasn't asbestos, but without proof they wouldn't take it.


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## MickCheese

I had to get a permit for an asbestos soil pipe and double wrap it. 
Mick


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## CHJ

Cement asbestos sheet and pipe work is accepted at our nearest site, have to register requirement to deposit, council send out sufficient large bags to allow it to be sealed against dust escape and a permit number with car registration record.
Just a case of putting it in dedicated container at the recycle centre for transport to landfill.


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## Steve Maskery

Thanks for all the advice on that, chaps, I'll ask at the local tip - it's just round the corner - before we take it out.
It's not that old, less than 20 years, so I'm pretty sure that there is no asbestos in it. I think it would have lasted a lot longer if it had.
S


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## Phil Pascoe

Do what everyone here does - get rid of it in small amounts over weeks in your domestic waste.  
Well, the smart people do. The rest fly tip it.


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## PAC1

I took some asbestolux sheet to the tip last year. i found it in the loft in perfect condition like new. I put it in a large waste sack and went to the tip. I told them what it was. Just a minute he says, they all go and get their white overalls and dust masks and dress up. No suit and mask for me mind. They then say I can get out of my car and bring the offending item. We all then go off to the secure asbestos skip. He unlocks and opens the door, sprays water everywhere and then says I have to place the item in the skip as they cannot touch it! So me the one with no dust mask has to go in a skip that actually could contain asbestos and place my double wrapped asbestolux into the skip. Do not throw or drop it! Where is the logic in that.
So take your own mask and overalls, you may need them!


----------



## Steve Maskery

We had to consider what we are going to do about landscaping, particularly across the front, but also down the sides. The back is no problem, we can leave it as it is.

But the ground falls away to the bottom of the garden, the workshop is lower than the rest of the garden. That is not helpful. This is largely due to successive builders scattering the ground they dug out over the rest of the garden which also means that my garden is higher than those of both my neighbours. This has caused some damage to the fence on the right, which belongs to my neighbour. There are gravel boards, but they have been set into the soil right down to ground level. Bonkers.

So I offered to install some gravel boards under the fence panels alongside the workshop. It would be better for both of us, as it protects their (very end of life) wooden panels, and it allows me to keep the ground fairly level along the sides, with a step down at the bottom, which no-one can see and fewer people care about.

So I started to shop around for gravel boards. We have a Travis Perkins in Kirkby. 22-something + VAT, not discountable. We also have a Keyline, same parent company. £15 inc VAT. Better. Ebay, there are plenty of people selling at £7 and even less, but collection only and none of them are round here. As far as I can tell it is exactly the same product.

But Ray knows what's what and where it is. So he says to go to Cold Comfort Farm and ask there. So I did. £8 each. That will do me, esp as they are the pretty, stone-faced ones and not the plain recessed ones.

So this morning Ray and I went along and picked up 6. But unfortunately the man who made them died a fortnight ago, so there won't be any more. I shall have to measure up what I need on the left, where there is a huge gap where the old garage used to be.

So I got them home and called in my mate Bob to help. They are carryable, but we also have to lift them 6ft into the air to slot them in.






There are no pics of fitting. I could hardly ask Bob and Ray to say Cheese whilst I fannied about with a camera.

For some bizarre reason one of the fence panels is shorter than the others by about 3". So that meant some bespoke fitting.











Although the fence panels are not mine, it did make sense to make some running repairs as best we could. It's a losing battle, to be honest, but I'm hoping it will be good for neighbourly relations.











The result is a firm boundary against which I can lay some blocks. I expected just to lay slabs, but Ray has an enormous stock of red blocks which he is offering me at a very good price. But I have another problem. I have a back yard - it might have been meant as a patio when it was built - but it is far from planar, it's got no fall and so I get puddles of dirty water which results in puddles of mud. There are also a couple of voids which used to be decking and a raised bed in a non-sunny place. So it's a bit of a mess. I didn't realise how scruffy it looked until I took this photo!






So the plan is this. Take up the yard and use the blocks around the workshop, then lay a new patio with the red blocks. They are very red, but I'm hoping they will mellow a bit.






It's quite a lot of work and I think Ray is beginning to wish he'd not suggested it. 

Finally, whilst I had another pair of hands, I fitted a length of worktop. This isn't actually the one I found at mum's, this has come out of a kitchen of one of Ray's friends. It's obviously old, the front edge rolls only over the top, there is no roll at all underneath the bottom. But it looks fine and was big enough. The one from Mum's is nicer and I can use that in my laundry room (AKA old coalhouse) in the house.






I've also acquired the sink from the same kitchen refurb, but I can't install that until I have proper drainage...


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## monkeybiter

Constantly photographing Ray working is a bit of a gloat, but adding to your collection of bearded helpers with a Bob is just showing off!


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## NickWelford

Oooh, getting close to 100k views now, when is it going to be.....


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## morfa

NickWelford":aklqwkbi said:


> Oooh, getting close to 100k views now, when is it going to be.....



It's going to hit 100 pages soon as well.


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## PeterBassett

It's just this minute clicked over from 99,999 to 100,000.


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## Racers

ccasion4: ccasion4:

Pete

200,000 next?


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## Steve Maskery

I missed it! I wanted to see it turn! Ah well.

I was outside digging. As I have mentioned, the land falls in an unhelpful direction, so in order to have the paving fall away from the building we are going to build a low retaining wall. We'll also have to dig up some concrete, so I've ordered a couple of diamond blades today. I have only a 4 1/2" angle grinder, but Ray has a 9" one. I just hope it is powerful enough and we don't have to hire a petrol jobbie.


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## Graham Orm

Lucky Ray! :mrgreen: (Someone had to say it!)


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## Steve Maskery

We wheeled the remains of my Router Table down to the workshop several weeks ago, since when it has been sitting there looking very sad indeed.







Although there are a couple of drawer fronts off, I do still have them. I'd tried to clean one up by washing it with a bit of bleach, but it did not get rid of the black discolouration. So there was nothing for it but to tart it up. I took off all the knobs and handles and gave it a coat of Mint eggshell.






which has done it a power of good. The drawers never fitted very well, but they had become very stiff indeed, but a squirt lithium grease sorted them out quite well. They are still not excellent, but they are useable.






I've bought a Kreg router plate, but it is a different shape and size to the one I had before. It is shorter and wider. If it was bigger all round I could fix it, but it is not easy to do a good job of filling the gaps, so it seemed sensible to make a new top.

I bought a sheet of 15mm MRMDF and cut a couple of pieces 950 x 700mm. I decided that I'd press them in a vacuum, but I had to improvise. I do still have one of my vac bags, but not the pump to evacuate it. If anyone has a vac pump they don't use, please let me know, I do want to replace mine.

So I took one of my vacuum bags for clothing and slipped the top in that.











I had limited success. To start with it went well and the bag did evacuate. But then the bag itself split. It didn't immediately collapse, not as long as I kept the shopvac going. So I left it running whilst I went up to the house to wash out the roller.

Unfortunately when I came back a few minutes later the shopvac was silent and the bag was full of air 

I think what happened was that the shopvac got hot because there was no air flowing through it and the thermal cutout swung in. Fortunately, when I switched it off and switched it back on again (the IT engineer in me), all was well again. Good job, as this was actually only the first time I'd used my Fessy, I've been using my Lidl more generally, but the Fessy has a nice soft nozzle. which is ideal for this, as the bag does not have a socket.

So the two layers are not bonded as tightly as I had hoped for, I'll have to see if it is good enough in a day or two. I might have to make it again


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## brianhabby

The router table looks a lot better Steve. With the top would it not have been easier to simply put a pile of weights (such as bricks) on it? 

regards 

Brian


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## Wizard9999

Any particular reason for mint? Not the most obvious choice for a router table.

Terry.


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## brianhabby

Wizard9999":3oynosoa said:


> Any particular reason for mint? Not the most obvious choice for a router table.
> 
> Terry.


I like it! 

regards 

Brian


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## Doug B

Graham Orm":288hjlb9 said:


> Lucky Ray! :mrgreen: (Someone had to say it!)




Mrs Ray more like :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Steve Maskery

Brian
Yes, in hindsight it may wellhave been.

Terry
I had a tin already.


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## custard

Slow down Steve. I appreciate that when a project gets to the final stage it's tempting to speed up to cross the finishing line, but that's when the mistakes get made. 

Now's the time for a cup of tea and some patience!


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## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":1hkp2der said:


> Terry
> I had a tin already.



That is a jolly good reason for going for a mint router table - though I have to say, on the second or third look it is kind of growing on me!

Terry.


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## Random Orbital Bob

No Terry.......please don't paint your workshop walls mint!!


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## JanetsBears

Wizard9999":1747zu13 said:


> ...though I have to say, on the second or third look it is kind of growing on me!
> 
> Terry.



What, like mould? :?


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## Steve Maskery

Hey, c'mon guys, it's not that bad, is it? My bathroom is that colour and it looks great! Well, I think so, anyway.
Retro, I'll admit.
S


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## CHJ

Well on the way to being in Mint condition once again, a breath of fresh air for the old girl, pity it was old mint and not Fresh Mint, it would have added a bit more spice to the project.


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## Peter Sefton

Is it Festool green?

Good to see it's coming together Steve.

Cheers Peter


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## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":24a5i7bv said:


> Hey, c'mon guys, it's not that bad, is it? My bathroom is that colour and it looks great! Well, I think so, anyway.
> Retro, I'll admit.
> S



Please tell me you don't have an avocado suite?


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## mseries

I've got an unopened tin of sage green just waiting to be used on some workshop furniture


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## Steve Maskery

Graham Orm":26e3p4kj said:


> Please tell me you don't have an avocado suite?



It took me ages to find one, everything is white only these days!


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## JanetsBears

Peter Sefton":nc09d3z2 said:


> Is it Festool green?


Well it's certainly not 'shipyard green' as used extensively in Knottingley, West Yorkshire, for painting gates, fences, sheds, window frames, doors, workbenches, garden furniture and even cars. Well, in days gone by it was easily obtainable (aka stolen) by people who worked at the shipyard. Must have been good stuff though, there's still lots of it to be seen around the town!

Chris


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## CHJ

Funny that, seem to remember most of my wartime made toys like ride on tractor, a barking Pluto (dog) battleship and toy fort with lead soldiers were all various shades of oil based camouflage paint, can still remember the smell.
The smell was even strongly evident on VE day Bonfire on the adjacent balloon barrage field* as it must have been used to get things going.


(*For Brummys, adjacent to the corner of Highters Heath Lane and Maypole lane, (now Arundel road area I believe) there was a paint factory nearby.


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## SammyQ

Chris, where is the shipyard in Knottingley please? I visit my sister there and the only funnels I've ever seen where at the power station......

Sam


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## JanetsBears

SammyQ":zd8oagvi said:


> Chris, where is the shipyard in Knottingley please? I visit my sister there and the only funnels I've ever seen where at the power station......
> 
> Sam


There's not much of it left these days but it was all on the left just before you leave Knottingley heading East towards Selby/Goole/Hull: 

http://tinyurl.com/kkke6ka

Chris


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## monkeybiter

I work about 13 miles from there, historically the factory used a particular green paint for buildings and logos. Apparently quite a few employees cars were also brush painted in the same shade!


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## Steve Maskery

I wasn't expecting Ray to come over today, I thought we were both going to work in someone else's garden today and work here tomorrow, but apparently I don't listen to my answering machine.

His first comment was, "There's not much to show for a week!". Hmmmm.

We started by finding our levels for the block paving and found that we needed to remove the concrete that is in front of the double doors. There is a limit of how close we can get the saw to the door, so there is a strip left, but we can bed the blocks pretty much directly onto that.

The saw didn't want to start







but eventually it was bullied into life






Ray started to cut






and it got dustier






and dustier






and dustier, until I couldn't stand there any longer. My sunglasses are safety glasses and they wrap around quite tightly, but they are not entirely dust proof and if there is one thing that contact-lens wearers don't like it dust on a windy day.

I was just glad that no neighbours had any washing out, or I would not be very popular at all.

With the line cut, we started to dig it out.











Actually, most of the time it was me levering and Ray bashing, my hunky body making this one job that I could do better than Ray.

So by lunchtime we had got half of it out, me taking it to the tip whilst Ray carried on breaking.






Going






Gone






The concrete at the left side is a bit bulging out over to next door, so we are going to have to chop out for our fence posts a little there.

I am absolutely knackered. Even Ray said he'd had enough. My eyes feel like they have been sand-blasted. I just hope that my lenses have not been scratched. I know it's not half-past-five yet but I am seriously thinking of skipping dinner, having a bath and going to bed.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I also received a nice present yesterday.

My mate Mark at the Community Workshop is the King of Pyro. Now normally I don't really like pyrography, but whenever we hold courses, they are always well-attended so I recognise that some people do actually like it as an art form. Indeed, some of Mark's work is really rather good. He has a Facebook page with some of his work on.

He has made me this:






I designed it, but he has burned and framed it. I rather like it. Thank you, Mark.


----------



## Racers

I remember breaking up my drive and throwing it into a skip, not much fun, shame the boys where to young to help!

Nice plaque.

Pete


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## RogerS

Steve, why didn't you feed a dribble of water from a hose into the cut? Kills the dust.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've done a bit more to my router table. The new Incra plate that I bought is shorter and wider than the Tilgear plate I had in before, so it doesn't fit and I would have some gaps to fill if I simply made the hole wider. So I'm making a new top.

I prepped some oak strips at the Community Workshop on Tuesday. They had been flooring and had nails in, but they have cleaned up beautifully. So I trimmed up my MDF and started to lip it. I lost all my sash cramps, but fortunately I still have all my trigger clamps. They are not long enough, of course, but at least I can use them along the edge with wedges to hold the strips in place. So I did this yesterday:






And today, between the sunny spells, I trimmed all the edges flush with a router:











I do have a piece of Formica for it. It's no longer very flat, so I'm not sure yet if it is still useable.

Ray came today. The weatherman said "Showers", but in fact it has rained most of the day. Miserable, actually.

We started by getting our levels for this block paving. We decided on a fall of about 25mm over the 1.9m of the path and screwed slate lath to the wall of the building and set a 4x2 along the trench I'd already dug. It was then a case of digging out (Ray) and barrowing away (me)





















I've ordered 4 new fence posts and some gravel boards and we have worked out that we need another 80 or so bricks for the retaining wall.

I'm not enjoying this bit. I just want it done.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve, have you had a go at fitting the Kreg plate yet? I ask as the one comment about it on their US website is somebody who says it is fine, but complaining about the 3/4 inch corner radius and the difficulty this has given them in terms of fitting. I have been given a second hand router table with a US size plate hole, so am in the market for one that size, but hadn't thought that even though it may be the same size the corner radii may be different.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ah yes. The Corners. They are a pain. Why? Why make it like that? It would make so much more sense to have a 1/4" radius so you can use a 1/2" cutter in a rectangular frame.

I've worked out how to do it, I think, and I shall blog it as I have the rest so far.
The other problem I have is that the router I shall use is a T11, which has the built-in base adjuster. But there is no hole for that pre-drilled, and if I do it manually it fouls one of the pin-holes. I rather wish I'd bought an undrilled one and made them in the orientation I want.
It isn't.


----------



## Steve Maskery

This morning I carried on with the RT top. All my glue lines are nice and tight and the flush-trim jig does an almost perfect job. A quick whizz with a sander did the last 1%.





I retrieved my Formica from its stack in the garden, and was not at all sure it would be usable, but a bit of a clean up and it looks fine So I used spray adhesive to attach it to the MDF top. It's a contact adhesive, so there is no margin for sliding it about. So I used some sticks to keep the two surfaces apart until I was happy I'd got it in the right place. Then I removed the sticks and rolled it down.











Even being careful, I was shy at one corner by a hair, less than 1mm, but that will get lost in a mo. I flush-trimmed the Formica and used a guide bush and my corner-rounding jig to put a, well, round corner, on the, er, corners.






The only 1/2" straight cutter I have at the mo is not that long so I had to finish it off with a bearing-guided flush-trim.






Then a bit of a round-over, which cures that tad-shy problem


----------



## Steve Maskery

So now how to deal with these pesky round corners?

Hmm. I had it all planned.

I'd made an MDF copy of the RT plate at the Community Workshop. 






My intention was to use it to make a female template, using a 30mm guide bush and 1/2" cutter. Then I could use that template, with the same cutter and guide bush, to cut out the recess and I'd be back to the original shape.

So I screwed the copy to a piece of OSB and routed away. I slipped and ruined it, but I simply re-sited the RT copy and had another go.
















The cut out the waste with a jigsaw






and flush-trim to the original routing line






And I felt very pleased with myself, 






until I did a test on a piece of scrap






Doh! Of course, I was back EXACTLY where I started, with a directly copy of my RT plate. silly person! 
So that was a few pieces of OSB and an afternoon wasted, but at least I did a test before using it on my top.

But, like Baldrick, I have another Cunning Plan. I just need to find a couple of pencils.


----------



## lurker

Just the sort of cock up I'd be famous for ........ If I was to tell anyone #-o


----------



## wcndave

Use your drill press to do the corners, track saw for the middle of the sides, finish up with jigsaw. Simples


----------



## wcndave

Or take your oversize template you've now made and use appropriate guide bush to get back to original.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The latter idea would be good, except that I don't have the right GB.
But, as I say, I do have another approach.
We'll just have to see if it works or whether it, too, makes me look stupid.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

I got fed up of having all my trigger clamps lying around, so decided to do something about it. In theory, this is temporary, but, well, you know what it's like. I just wish I'd made it a bit bigger, it's a bit cramped (ha-ha).


----------



## Steve Maskery

Before we can lay the base for the block paving, there are a few areas where we need to create a resistant boundary.

The left hand side is open to the neighbours', because the wall of the original shack was, in effect, the boundary wall. Unfortunately, the concrete base bulges out quite a bit and it is very thick there. Fortunately the neighbours are relaxed about that and are just glad that their view has been improved, so we've cut out enough to get the posts in, but the limit is how close to the original concrete base we can get the gravel boards.

So today my mate Steve came to lend a hand. We set up the end post first:






and used Postcrete to bed it in.











All those bricks you can see are ones we dragged out of the nettles and briars at the bottom of their garden. They are happy and we have some bricks we can use.

Then we set out a string and carried the other posts down the garden.






They are heavy enough, but the delivery man this morning carried not just one of the posts, but one of the 12" gravel boards, off the waggon and down the drive, all on his own. He treated it like it was no more than a bag of shopping.

So by 3 o'clock we had the posts in. Unfortunately one has leaned a tad, but it's too late to do anything about it now. I'm hoping it won't be so obvious when the panels are in place.






We've also put in another gravel board on the RH side of the garden, so I now have a hard edge right up to the retaining wall at the front, which will be the next bit.


----------



## paulm

Interested to see how you go about slotting the fence panels in Steve. I had to replace one for my mum in law a while ago and it was a bit of fun ! I guess with a few to do I would have given it some more thought and made a jig or some kind of rig or something to help !

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wednesday = Rayday.

When we fitted the gravel boards last week there was a short section at the back which we did not finish. So today, Ray brought along a concrete edging strip and I had bought another gravel board. With a bit of cutting we could fill the gap.






We need a foundation for the low retaining wall. Not sure yet who is going to build it. I have done some brickwork in the past, but it was a loooong time ago and my personal standards have risen since then, even though my skill level hasn't, so I'm not sure I'll be happy with my own work. We'll see. Anyway, rather than shuttering, mixing concrete and pouring it, Ray suggested using more gravel boards laid on sand. The wall is going to be only a few courses, so it should be more than adequate.











The ground at the sides falls away quite a bit towards the back and I want to keep it fairly level, so there is a bit of infill to do. I have a pile of broken paving slabs and old bricks, so we put the bricks at the far end, then the 2" slabs in the middle and the 1" slabs towards the front. It's quite some crazy paving, but it's just to fill the void, something on which to lay the sand and blocks.











I've got double-Ray this week, so more tomorrow, all being well.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Having laid an instant foundation yesterday, today we continued to prep the ground for the block paving. We had excavated a tad too much, so there was an inch or so of infill to do.







Having done that, we started on the retaining wall. We laid out the bricks to see how they fell,






and so I mixed whilst Ray did the clever stuff






and it looks OK for a couple of hammer chewers






Because the ground falls away so much towards the back, I shall have a step at the end, so we built one at each side. It means the path will be reasonably flat and who cares about the bottom end.






So the front levels are about right, but we still have some work to do at the sides before we barrow down a couple of tons of sand and dismantling my patio...


----------



## n0legs

Strong weedkiller in a watering can before the blocks/slabs go down :wink:


----------



## Eric The Viking

n0legs":tgpfy173 said:


> Strong weedkiller in a watering can before the blocks/slabs go down :wink:



I wouldn't ever suggest looking for an old tin of Sodium Chlorate, as it's been banned, however it was the weedkiller of choice for decades for that job (as stuff stayed dead). I'm sure there's none about now, no matter how hard you look around in the back of the shed, or ask the neighbours...

Way back in the 1970s, my parents had their drive enlarged and resurfaced. Dad specified that the (legit and locally well-known) contractor weedkilled before laying the tarmac, and had it put in the quote. They forgot, and the next spring it was wrecked by weeds coming through. They came back and did it properly, at some considerable expense to them.

I don't think there is a modern cost-effective alternative, sadly.


----------



## blackrodd

Eric The Viking":f50piv73 said:


> n0legs":f50piv73 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Strong weedkiller in a watering can before the blocks/slabs go down :wink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't ever suggest looking for an old tin of Sodium Chlorate, as it's been banned, however it was the weedkiller of choice for decades for that job (as stuff stayed dead). I'm sure there's none about now, no matter how hard you look around in the back of the shed, or ask the neighbours...
> 
> Way back in the 1970s, my parents had their drive enlarged and resurfaced. Dad specified that the (legit and locally well-known) contractor weedkilled before laying the tarmac, and had it put in the quote. They forgot, and the next spring it was wrecked by weeds coming through. They came back and did it properly, at some considerable expense to them.
> 
> I don't think there is a modern cost-effective alternative, sadly.
Click to expand...


I thought "Roundup" was the first and last word in weed killer.
Is that not so?
Regards Rodders


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Wot no sodium chlorate??? What are today's kids using to make bombs??


----------



## Steve Maskery

Is anyone free to help either tomorrow, Thursday, or Friday?
I have 5 tonnes of sand and 40m2 block paving to move.....

I know it's short notice, but I just thought I'd ask.
S


----------



## wcndave

Steve Maskery":r7gi1xnt said:


> Is anyone free to help either tomorrow, Thursday, or Friday?
> I have 5 tonnes of sand and 40m2 block paving to move.....
> 
> I know it's short notice, but I just thought I'd ask.
> S



have you missed the bank holiday Steve? Tomorrow *is* Thursday 

I wish I could help!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Er, yes, I know 
Perhaps I should have written it "tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday". It was a choice of two days, not three!

But I do see how it could be interpreted as such.


----------



## kostello

Sorry moving house tomorrow....... 
Not panicking at all!


----------



## wcndave

Steve Maskery":28g7o8gh said:


> Er, yes, I know
> Perhaps I should have written it "tomorrow (Thursday) or Friday". It was a choice of two days, not three!
> 
> But I do see how it could be interpreted as such.



I was worried you'd missed a day and a bunch of stones and sand were going to turn up today when you weren't expecting them!

Glad that's not the case.


----------



## Steve Maskery

We finished levelling today.

The front was pretty much OK, but the sides were still well down from where they need to be if the block paving is going to be anything like level front to back.

So I filled buckets with soil






whilst Ray spread it about a bit






Then we started to dig up my patio






It's lumpy-bumpy and needs re-laying anyway, so it makes sense to take it up and use it down around the workshop

With some mebrane down, we put a layer of the blue edging blocks down the RH side as infill






And the broken paving and ballast down the LH side, only we don't need the membrane there, as it's on concrete already











So I have 5 tonnes of sand arriving tomorrow morning. I am knackered now so I think I shall probably be dead after tomorrow's effort.

I really need to get some braces, I've nearly lost my trousers a couple of times today, and I have laydees coming tomorrow, I don't want to be mooning at them. Of course it would help if I had something resembling a waist.


----------



## kostello

Say no to crack !


----------



## paulm

Looks like a lot of hard work Steve, can see the progress though, soon be sorted 

A bit worried about the block paving between the side of the workshop and the fence though, will you not get splashback from the blocks onto the workshop cladding and risk of damp/rot ? It maybe the roof overhangs though ?

Cheers, Paul


----------



## lurker

kostello":2e4otiyh said:


> Say no to crack !



=D> =D> =D>


----------



## Steve Maskery

paulm":2t5bdls3 said:


> A bit worried about the block paving between the side of the workshop and the fence though, will you not get splashback from the blocks onto the workshop cladding and risk of damp/rot ? It maybe the roof overhangs though ?



Well I must admit that that had not occurred to me, but it's too late now.

The walls are going to be clad in Glasroc, with two coats of Snowcem. It's not a perfect solution, but it is what the BCO recommends, having got myself into this mess, and it will see me out, I'm sure.

---------

It took me while to work out the crack joke 

Pert Steve


----------



## kostello

Steve Maskery":3s5jo07k said:


> paulm":3s5jo07k said:
> 
> 
> 
> A bit worried about the block paving between the side of the workshop and the fence though, will you not get splashback from the blocks onto the workshop cladding and risk of damp/rot ? It maybe the roof overhangs though ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well I must admit that that had not occurred to me, but it's too late now.
> 
> The walls are going to be clad in Glasroc, with two coats of Snowcem. It's not a perfect solution, but it is what the BCO recommends, having got myself into this mess, and it will see me out, I'm sure.
> 
> ---------
> 
> It took me while to work out the crack joke
> 
> Pert Steve
Click to expand...

That is because you haven't spent 5years looking down a bricklayer's buttocks crack


----------



## Brentingby

Steve Maskery":11wdtasn said:


> It took me while to work out the crack joke
> 
> Pert Steve



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqzha6g5ZvI

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray arrived early today, but the delivery man was an hour late.

So while we waited I hosed down the patio. I'd forgotten what a filthy job it is,






But it does make a great difference






It would have been much better if I'd done that yesterday.

But the sand did eventually turn up, closely followed by Ray's wife Chris and our friend Thérèse. Thérèse is the only French lady I know who has a pilot's licence and her own concrete mixer. I call them my pheasants, because they are game birds, game for anything. Such as:

Whackerising the hardcore:






shifting sand






and digging up my patio






Chris doesn't like having her photo taken, but I was very persistent






She's threatened to get me at playtime.

The two of them can get very, very silly


----------



## Steve Maskery

So whilst we were shifting the sand and cleaning up blocks, Ray was getting the sand down.











Of course, everyone wants a little slice of the fun stuff






So all this






is now here






I had arranged to have a date this evening. A date. With a woman. A female one. I must be out of my tiny mind. But fortunately she has cried off and I am very very glad about it. I just want a bath and an early night.


----------



## Adam9453

What thickness glasroc boards are you going to use Steve as it's blooming expensive stuff


----------



## Steve Maskery

He's happy with 6mm. 
So I am, too.


----------



## Adam9453

Steve Maskery":a7fbk1sd said:


> He's happy with 6mm.
> So I am, too.


That's lucky, I nearly fell over when I saw the price for 12mm 8x4 sheets of glasroc!!
Have you just got to clad the sides and back with it I take it?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes. Plus two coats of Snowcem.


----------



## Adam9453

I've not come across the snowcem paint but after googling it, seems like very good stuff


----------



## beech1948

Steve,

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket but I always understood Glasrock was a plasterboard with a hardish and smooth outer layer, with fiberglass threads within the plasterboard and can obviously be treated for fire resistance.

However, it is a plasterboard and the manufacturers data sheet confirms that it is not suitable for exposed external perimeters. I guess rain +plasterboard = tendency to go soft.

I could be wrong here but my colleagues seem to agree. Best to check it out prior to purchase.

Al


----------



## Steve Maskery

Al
Yes, that is a concern. But. I don't have many options, the BCO is happy with that, and the Snowcem stuff is a waterproof, cement-based paint. 
My granddad used to use it. It's been around for decades (assuming it is the same stuff) but is now made in India. There is a UK distributor, though.

It doesn't have to last for ever, it just needs to see me out and after that, quite frankly I no longer care. Nothing lasts for ever. Everything I built up before was swept away with the stroke of a pen. 

It's only Ray that keeps me going on the project at all, personally I've had enough. It's a good job that there is relatively little left to do.


----------



## monkeybiter

When you decide it's finished enough to use you should go for a budget holiday, somewhere that has nothing to offer you, so you have no choice but to lounge and maybe indulge. 
We tried this last year and came back refreshed and with a yearning to be active and creative, as opposed to the usual need for a rest after our preferred getaway.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Nice idea, Mike.
I've not had a holiday for 6 years, bar the odd weekend in a Youth Hostel. But later this year I am going to visit a friend I've never met, and doing New York along the way. It will be budget by US standards, AirBnB for accommodation and budget airlines. But I'm really looking forward to it. My mate Bob, who helped me make my early films, is coming with me to NY. Mind you, the last time I went on holiday with him I got mugged and ended up locked in a room with a man wanted back in the UK for murder.
S


----------



## monkeybiter

Funny that, I got chatting to an ex con when I was in NY. Seemed like a nice chap though.

I just think that as soon as you feel you can, you should turn your back on the new build, as magnificent as it is, until it calls you back, and I doubt if that would be too long. But then you'd be there because you want to be rather than because you had to be. A goal for reaching the finish line that isn't just more of the same.


----------



## AES

Hullo Steve,

If I may I endorse monkeybiter's post (above) 110%. That exactly reflects my own experience.

Meanwhile, thanks for having enough "go" to continue posting a really interesting build of a real palace.

Krgds

AES


----------



## brianhabby

Brentingby":1elk16uw said:


> Steve Maskery":1elk16uw said:
> 
> 
> 
> It took me while to work out the crack joke
> 
> Pert Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqzha6g5ZvI
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...


I prefer this one. 

regards 

Brian


----------



## NickWelford

Steve, sorry to hear that your heart is no longer in it, there's many of us here building this vicariously with you. Tell you what - we'll have the shed warming get together whilst you are away!


----------



## Steve Maskery

It was not a good start to the day. Not only was it piddling down, but I could hardly open my left eye. It is bloodshot, swollen and very tender to the touch. I think I have an eye infection 

However, a bit of rain never stopped Ray, so I carried on digging up my patio blocks whilst Ray carried on laying them.

It continued to piddle down, so much so that even Ray stopped for while.

By about 4, we had finished laying the blocks and the sun started to make a tentative appearance, so I took some photos.

















We then whackered the blocks






brushed in some sand






more whackerising






and after a bit more brushing and whackerification, it was goodbye patio






Hello esplanade






If the rest of my house and garden get to look as good as this, then I shall be very pleased. 

It's not totally finished, the very back ends, where they step down, need to be cemented, but that is not urgent.

Ray had got special permission from Chris to continue to work until the job was finished, provided he bought fish&chips for dinner on the way home. The whackeriser had to be returned to his neighbour and would not fit in his car. So I followed with it in mine and shared their fish&chips.

So now I am home, about to take my contact lenses out, have a bath and sleep until Tuesday.

No more Ray for a couple of weeks (well I have had 3 days of his time this week), they have a hectic social life right now, and anyway, he deserves a rest, don't you think?


----------



## Mcluma

It looks really good

better get some new contact lenses


----------



## Titch

Truly inspirational build.


----------



## Owl

I bet poor Ray's feeling 'WHACKERED'


----------



## John15

The paving looks really good Steve, and sets the building off nicely. Well done Ray.

John


----------



## CHJ

Plenty of plastic sheets down when you come to finish cladding and do the final Snowcem.


----------



## Halo Jones

Steve,

I hope some time in the next few days that the sun is shining when you first wake up and you take a look down the bottom of the garden and think "Wow. Did we really do all that?!"

I have been there myself and really think that it is time you take a little break. You should be proud. It is a rather envious palace that you (and Ray) have built.

I hope the eye gets better soon,

H.


----------



## MickCheese

Steve, I'm so impressed, it's looking fantastic.

I think we all get a little disillusioned by huge projects.

To me you and Ray have done a marvellous job. Seems we all need a 'Ray' in our lives now and again to push us to the finish, especially if it's a marathon.

So, well done to Ray too. I don't know him but a truly inspirational person.

Mick


----------



## Lons

Steve
Re your eye infection.

I wore contact lenses for 35 years and whilst I never regretted them they did cause me problems. Working in a dry office environment and very dusty conditions at times I regularly got eye infections, some pretty bad. You have to be careful as tiny ulcers are common caused by grit or whatever and the lenses rub and allow the ulcer to become infected which results in a build up of scared tissue, there for life!
I spent several years contemplating laser eye surgery and eventually took the plunge 7 years ago. Best thing I ever did and not a single eye problem since. I recon it saved me at least half an hour every day on lens routines and all the money spent on lenses and back up specs have more than paid for the laser treatment.

I was very short sighted being -5.5 and -6.0 but got 20 / 20 vision which is still excellent. I'mm 66 now so never too late and procedures have advanced significantly since myne was done.

cheers
Bob


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thanks for all the support guys, it's very much appreciated.

Bob. I could have laser surgery, I think, but it would be a big risk. I have had two cornea replacement operations, 1993 and 2002. I don't want to go through anything like that again. OK, I know that techniques have become more sophisticated now than they were then. Indeed, they did the second one in a slightly different way to the first. Now they can replace just the top layer, rather than the whole cornea. But it would still carry a big risk.

With my lenses I read 6/6, sometimes even 6/5+. At one time I could even read 6/4 but those days are long gone. Without my lenses I read 6/360 or something worse by now, probably. That means that what the average person can read at 360m, I have to get as close as 6m to read. I do have some specs, and they are better than nothing, but not much. OK for pottering about the house, but not good enough to read or drive.

I was told at 16 that I would go blind (no making up your own jokes, please), but, 41 years later, I'm still functioning.

I left my lenses out for most yesterday and I've only just put them in today. Coupled with a rather generous amount of good-quality sleep since Friday, my eye is a lot better, thank you.


----------



## Lons

That makes sense Steve, I probably wouldn't take the risk either. As I said I took years deciding anyway without having your problems.

Love the build BTW and have been following even though I haven't said much.
Don't underestimate the inspiration you're giving to others Steve and keep it going. Your fothcoming holiday will be just the ticket so make sure you enjoy it.

cheers
Bob


----------



## Racers

I too had an eye infection a couple of weeks ago, same symptoms really sore eye then discharge, some eye drops from the chemist cleared it up in a couple of days, luckily as we where going away a couple of days after it started.

The workshop is looking very good, when is the opening do? :wink:  

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

That is a very good Q, Pete, a very good Q.

I seem to remember originally hoping for a Bash "before the end of the year". Ah, the innocence of inexperience, eh? Fortunately, I didn't specify which year....

I'm actually thinking of having two bashes, one for the contributors (builders, helpers, senders of copper rivets, etc, etc.) and a second for the well-wishers, of which there are many here. Open House, if you like. 

The reason is that there is limited parking here, as you know (also an industrial estate 2m walk away could also provide useful space). I've just read that and I realise that it could mean Two Miles. It doesn't, it means Two Minutes...). 

So yes, I do intend to have a Workshop Essentials Bash (if Workshop Essentials continues to exist, given the plethora of free stuff, some of it quite respectable, on the net, which, quite frankly, makes me redundant, and who in their right mind wants to pay for stuff when they can get what they think is the same for free?). I just don't know when yet.

Ray is gone for a couple of weeks, but the weather forecast is for Summer to arrive soon, at least for a few days. Once we have a window of warm dry weather for, say, a week or two, I can get the cladding done and then the job can be signed off.

That's when it is time to throw a party.

You, my friend, will be at the front of the queue. Especially if you can tell me why my workshop wifi no longer seems to work...


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":2fr8s8mf said:


> That is a very good Q, Pete, a very good Q.
> 
> I seem to remember originally hoping for a Bash "before the end of the year". Ah, the innocence of inexperience, eh? Fortunately, I didn't specify which year....
> 
> I'm actually thinking of having two bashes, one for the contributors (builders, helpers, senders of copper rivets, etc, etc.) and a second for the well-wishers, of which there are many here. Open House, if you like.
> 
> The reason is that there is limited parking here, as you know (also an industrial estate 2m walk away could also provide useful space). I've just read that and I realise that it could mean Two Miles. It doesn't, it means Two Minutes...).
> 
> So yes, I do intend to have a Workshop Essentials Bash (if Workshop Essentials continues to exist, given the plethora of free stuff, some of it quite respectable, on the net, which, quite frankly, makes me redundant, and who in their right mind wants to pay for stuff when they can get what they think is the same for free?). I just don't know when yet.
> 
> Ray is gone for a couple of weeks, but the weather forecast is for Summer to arrive soon, at least for a few days. Once we have a window of warm dry weather for, say, a week or two, I can get the cladding done and then the job can be signed off.
> 
> That's when it is time to throw a party.
> 
> You, my friend, will be at the front of the queue. Especially if you can tell me why my workshop wifi no longer seems to work...



Have a look at this Steve https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nJbf4HhHV0


----------



## Racers

Thanks Steve its been a pleasure to help out. 
I feel guilty I haven't been there as much as Ray. 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Having had a couple of days away from the build, I was ready to start again today, but rather than working on the workshop, I wanted to work in it.

I don't have a lot of storage space yet, and I have lots of stuff just lying around, waiting to get damaged, so I decided to do something about that.







I was quite surprised to find that the rails do not hang perfectly vertically. The thicker edge makes them kick to the side slightly, and as some hang one way and some the other, it looks a tad disconcerting.

The other thing I wanted to tackle was this pesky Incra router plate. You will remember that it has a 3/4" radius corner. If you don't have CNC this is not the easiest radius to cut. But I have bought a replacement rebate cutter. I thought it was 1.5" dia, but it's not, it is about 35mm, just a tad tighter. But it's not far off. 

So my plan was to cut an aperture 1" smaller than the plate, then rout a 1/2" rebate to take the plate itself.

The first step was some rather careful measuring and marking.






Then I pinned some OSB to the underside and drilled an access hole for my saw.






I cut out the waste but tried to leave a generous margin as I could see that the blade was canting.











Then a flush trim bit











Because of the length of the bit I had to do it in two passes, the second one without the OSB frame, to complete the job.






But I had a problem. The blade had canted so much that I had overshot a little bit on the underside, which is the working top surface. Not by much, and the rebate will remove it, but I can't use it as a bearing surface for those couple of inches. What to do?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Most of it I could rebate just using the bearing, 






but If I'd just run the bearing all the way around, it would be very slightly wonky for a short length, so I clamped a straight edge and used that for that section.






It took a couple of attempts to get the straight edge in exactly the right place, just tapping it over a hair each time, but I got it looking right.











And so the moment of truth, and
v
v
v
v
v
v
it didn't go in. Oh, the length was right and the width was right, but the corners were not quite tight enough. What's going on, the cutter is slightly TOO tight. The problem was that the flush trim cutter, 1/2", is bigger than the bearing. So I hunted out my corner chisel, a really handy little tool, and squared up the corners inside.






Now the rebate cutter could get right in






And, then, like Cinderella's slipper, it fits











It isn't perfect, the radius is about 1mm tighter than perfect, and that does mean that the little corner cam which is designed to lock the plate in place, doesn't work, as it does not have that much throw, but it's not really necessary.

As an aside, I was really pleased to see that the glue line for my laminated top was nice and tight. This is the piece that came out






So I have had a very productive day. I started just after 9 and it was nearly 6 when I came in. It is a very long time since I have felt like working like that. I could have carried on, as well, but I'm supposed to be going out tonight. Might give it a miss though.

Nice feeling.

I'm not sure if I have a problem with my camera, it seems to be be changing the colour temperature on its own. Slightly worrying.

PS It's great being able to get down there without getting my boots muddy!


----------



## Racers

Nicely done Steve.

Can you set a custom white balance on your camera? if so you could set it to your lighting in your workshop, I have a couple of ones, one set for my halogen lights in the house.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

I think so, yes. It has lots of functions I never use. I do almost everything on Intelligent Auto  

I just don't understand how two consecutive photos can be taken on different Auto settings, when the subject is virtually identical in colour and lighting.

S


----------



## Lons

Change as good as a rest Steve. Great to see you back in the saddle. =D> 

cheers
Bob


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":3vwqjch1 said:


> I think so, yes. It has lots of functions I never use. I do almost everything on Intelligent Auto
> 
> I just don't understand how two consecutive photos can be taken on different Auto settings, when the subject is virtually identical in colour and lighting.
> 
> S


The vagaries of a camera's brain  

If the camera can shoot raw then that'll solve the problem of white balance entirely, as a raw won't have the white balance "cooked" into it like a jpeg.

Given the lighting in the workshop will also be farliy consistent (I assume) you could also set the camera to manual and dial in a good setting for the series you're about to take; that'll ensure consistent results.


----------



## Wizard9999

Glad you got the router plate in Steve. But I have to say, reading what a PITA it was to do has been enough to help me decide I will not be buying an Incra plate myself.

Terry.


----------



## yetloh

Steve,

Is it possible that one shot was entirely lit by your workshop lights and another had some added daylight? If so, that would explain the phenomenom. I do agree about shooting in RAW mode though, it makes it much easier to adjust the white balance after you have taken it.

Glad to hear you are heartened by being able to get on with something you really wanted to do rather than what you felt you had to do. It's amazing how therapeutic a satisfying day in the workshop can be. It has obviously been a gruelling journey but, you have certainly given readers of this forum a lot of pleassure along the way. 

Jim


----------



## petermillard

Steve Maskery":18a08m7s said:


> I just don't understand how two consecutive photos can be taken on different Auto settings, when the subject is virtually identical in colour and lighting.


Fluorescent tubes in the workshop Steve? The light emitted from florries is of continually changing intensity and colour so best to keep shutter speeds below 1/50th sec (50Hz, AC waveforms, all that...) for consistent results. In the early days of digital photography even the light output from heavy-duty studio flash wasn't consistent enough to be able to shoot with a fixed shutter speed.

HTH Pete


----------



## Doug B

Good to see you're making progress inside the shop Steve, take it steady though with all that Festool gear on show you'll have the willey measuring mod round :lol: :lol: 

Hope to be up for a pint this month, had my stitches out so should be good for a jar in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Doug - glad you are on the mend

All- Thanks for the photo advice. I don't think my camera does RAW. But there have been one or two other glitches with it, which makes me wonder if it is working properly. E.g. when I switch it on, it says "Dial ot in proper position" when it is. Just touch it and it comes to life. And the image display can be very dark. Move the dial to something else and then back and all is well. It never used to behave like this.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":3f7xyiys said:


> Doug - glad you are on the mend
> 
> All- Thanks for the photo advice. I don't think my camera does RAW. But there have been one or two other glitches with it, which makes me wonder if it is working properly. E.g. when I switch it on, it says "Dial ot in proper position" when it is. Just touch it and it comes to life. And the image display can be very dark. Move the dial to something else and then back and all is well. It never used to behave like this.


Sometimes if you leave a camera in a manual mode (with manual settings that would be too dark for the current scene) you'll find the display is very dim until you either change the settings or spin the dial to one of the automatic modes. That said, it does sound like it might be a bit ill. What model is it?

If you wanted something that'd shoot raw without spending big money, I believe that many of Canon's consumer point and shoot models can be "hacked" using CHDK - which is a sort of third party extension firmware that can enable higher-end features on a budget camera. Adobe's Lightroom is then the ideal companion for tweaking and managing the photos - though it'd be overkill if you don't actually take many shots.


----------



## Racers

Doug B":2puku651 said:


> Hope to be up for a pint this month, had my stitches out so should be good for a jar in a couple of weeks.




Stitches? 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's a Lumix G1. Old by today's standards, but does everything I need, and I don't want to have to spend anything I don't need to.


----------



## Noel

Great progress Steve, personally and practically. Long journey but well worth it. Not long to go.

98 pages and nearly 115,000 views, a record I think for a single topic. Very enjoyable to read.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":o2a7i9pz said:


> It's a Lumix G1. Old by today's standards, but does everything I need, and I don't want to have to spend anything I don't need to.


Steve - this http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcg1/2 suggests you should be able to get raw files from it.

EDIT: Looks like it was actually quite a decent camera, but interestingly enough the review notes "Fairly unreliable auto white balance (in artificial light) and no fluorescent white balance preset"


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I've had a play and have learned quite a bit. I don't understand what RAW is or why I would want it, but I've found where it is. And I've found how to set the WB to the 6500K of my fluorescent tubes.

I'll probably still use point and shoot though!


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":3geqga3d said:


> Well I've had a play and have learned quite a bit. I don't understand what RAW is or why I would want it, but I've found where it is. And I've found how to set the WB to the 6500K of my fluorescent tubes.
> 
> I'll probably still use point and shoot though!


Raw files depend greatly on the camera, but in a nutshell: light goes through lens to sensor => analogue sensor data is digitized => digital data is modified based on your current settings (white balance, sharpness, picture styles etc.) => resulting image is written to the memory card as a jpeg.

Storing a raw gets that data at the "just digitized" stage, with a bunch of metadata that describes the settings that were in use by your camera at the time.

With suitable software on a PC/Mac you could then effectively reproduce the jpeg (it would use the raw data + the settings metadata from the file). The advantages are that you can change settings that would have been "cooked" into the jpeg; for example, a bad white balance choice could have permanently damaged image data in the jpeg, whereas the raw stores what the sensor actually saw, plus some settings to indicate what the camera's white balance was (and that can be overridden in post).

There's also usually more dynamic range in the raw, so the camera makes a decision on what brightness range and curve profiles to map the raw data into a jpeg (likely clipping some shadow or highlight detail in the process). With the raw on suitable editing software you've got much more scope for pulling detail from shadows and recovering information from apparently blown highlights.

Some people use the analogy of a jpeg being a print, and a raw being a digital negative. It's not a great analogy, but it works at the layman level.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hey, Sploo, I understood all of that! Thank you very much.


----------



## OM99

Steve,

a raw file is pretty much like in the old days of film a positve that need to be developed ( it was in dark rooms) now its done with software such as Adobe photoshop or easier with Adobe Lightroom.

with those you can amend pretty much anything within the RAW file from white balance to highlights etc...., a raw file will have a lot of information compared to the jpeg.

The jpeg is the developed raw but done by the camera software.

PS: I don't know much about table saw blades but know a bit more about photo .

Oli


----------



## Doug B

Racers":hrla9wqm said:


> Doug B":hrla9wqm said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to be up for a pint this month, had my stitches out so should be good for a jar in a couple of weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stitches?
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...


Chronic carpel tunnel Pete, lost the feeling in some of my fingers so they got me in quick & operated







Got to wait till July then they're on about doin the left :roll: 


Sorry for the hijack Steve


----------



## Racers

Ouch! 

Good luck with the next one.

Pete


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":3oqvc8k3 said:


> Hey, Sploo, I understood all of that! Thank you very much.


No worries.

One other advantage: decoding a raw into something a human can view is a complex art, and there are a variety of different ways to do it. Some software can extract more information than others, simply by being a bit more clever with the way the (usually Bayer) data is interpreted.

If you have an original raw, then it's possible that, over time, a better raw converter may appear, and this would result in a slightly better image.

If you only have the jpeg (or even a lossless format such as a TIFF) the demosaic process has already resulted in RGB data, and you couldn't gain from a newer raw converter. It's obviously also likely that a powerful PC spending a few seconds doing the conversion can produce a better result than a camera trying to do it in a fraction of a second (i.e. using a better algorithm).


----------



## yetloh

Use RAW all the time and +1 for Lightroom. Quite apart from processing the image and generating a jpeg version, it is great for organising your images with a huge range of cataloguing possibilities, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.

Jim


----------



## Harbo

My camera is set up to take a RAW and JPEG - a bit overkill as I generally just use the RAW file. I set it up in case PhotoStream couldn't cope with RAW but it does.

Rod

MikeG has recently had the CT Op - I suffer from it too but probably not severe enough to operate?
My GP advises other things like Gel gloves etc but they only have a limited effect!


----------



## Racers

RAW and Nikon NX-D (its free) Photoshop and Lightroom on occasions (also free for me)

Pete


----------



## xy mosian

sploo":38zvoxgq said:


> If you wanted something that'd shoot raw without spending big money, I believe that many of Canon's consumer point and shoot models can be "hacked" using CHDK - which is a sort of third party extension firmware that can enable higher-end features on a budget camera. Adobe's Lightroom is then the ideal companion for tweaking and managing the photos - though it'd be overkill if you don't actually take many shots.



Spot on. I have CDHK installed on memory card for use in my Canon A4000 IS. The improvement in image quality, over standard jpg, is staggering. With CDHK I can not only save in RAW, or DNG, format but also in a higher quality jpg than the camera offers. There is a downside, the image saving time, to card, is greatly increased. This sometimes is a blessing, making me think longer before pressing the shutter, but more often a bit of a nuisance.

xy


----------



## PAC1

Page 99! Nearly at the magic 100


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ooh, yes, and I like magic.
Steve, Finalist, Young Magician of the Year 1975!

We do seem to have hijacked this thread a little...


----------



## SteveF

this has been an outstanding build 
and to get to 100 will be a landmark

all the best with your "finishing" which is looking close now

Steve


----------



## sploo

yetloh":2auxjbdh said:


> Use RAW all the time and +1 for Lightroom. Quite apart from processing the image and generating a jpeg version, it is great for organising your images with a huge range of cataloguing possibilities, you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like.


I'd highly recommend Scott Kelby's Lightroom books - very good for introducing you to the "what" and "why"; made a big difference for me.



xy mosian":2auxjbdh said:


> There is a downside, the image saving time, to card, is greatly increased. This sometimes is a blessing, making me think longer before pressing the shutter, but more often a bit of a nuisance.


Ah. You'll be needing a Canon 1DX then :wink: 



SteveF":2auxjbdh said:


> this has been an outstanding build
> and to get to 100 will be a landmark


Is there going to be a prize for the poster that tips it over 100?


----------



## Steve Maskery

I don't know about a prize, but I wish I'd got a Quid Per View, it would have been quite a decent business proposition. Paid for the build and a jolly reasonable living besides!
Alas, alack.


----------



## Tom K

So how many replies to do the ton?


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":orgc4n1l said:


> I don't know about a prize, but I wish I'd got a Quid Per View, it would have been quite a decent business proposition. Paid for the build and a jolly reasonable living besides!
> Alas, alack.


You will have a very nice workshop at the end of it though!



Tom K":orgc4n1l said:


> So how many replies to do the ton?


I'm so tempted to make several posts; each one consisting of a single word, on the lines of:

I

don't

know

but

I'd

like

to

find

out

etc.


----------



## n0legs

I hope mine makes it page 100.


----------



## n0legs

Maybe this one.


----------



## n0legs

Nope!!!


----------



## n0legs

Oh pipper!!


----------



## n0legs

You must be joking.


----------



## n0legs

Ha Ha! Congrats Steve on a 100 page topic =D> =D>


----------



## sploo

ccasion5:


----------



## Racers

I was experting alarms flashing lights balloons dropping from the ceiling etc.

\/ ccasion5: \/ ccasion5: \/ ccasion5: \/ ccasion5: \/


Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

N0legs that is cheating!

Thank you all, I wonder how many words I've typed writing it up?
S


----------



## PAC1

The next milestone is 1500 posts later today?


----------



## Doug B

Steve Maskery":1kfopkka said:


> Thank you all, I wonder how many words I've typed writing it up?
> S




Really enjoyed the thread Steve but I'll leave the counting to someone else 


PS thanks Pete.


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":vtu7qkz0 said:


> N0legs that is cheating!



Win at any cost :lol: 
Cheating gene kicked in yo!!!!


----------



## bucephalus

Hi Steve

Somehow I've only just found this thread and after about 6 hours I've just finished reading the lot (yes, sad I know).

Your workshop looks fantastic. I have learned a lot from this thread and I want to thank you for taking the time to document it. Having done it myself on a small scale I have some appreciation for the time and effort it takes, on top of the work itself. Particularly useful were your honest and brave descriptions of the 'modifications', and how you resolved them.

As others have mentioned already this account of your build Steve is not just about your workshop but it is also a testament to your personal resilience and determination in moving your life forward after adversity. Kipling's 'If' springs to mind:

"Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools"

You can also tell a lot about a man by the friends he has - and you have some great ones.

I wish you many years of happy making in the new 'cathedral'.

Very best wishes

Gavin


----------



## Steve Maskery

Sad. Yes, very, very sad. 
Thank you for the kind words, they are very much appreciated. Things have ground to ahalt somewhat as I have hurt my eys and lost a contact lens. I have just one and I can't wear that, so I'm wearing my specs, which are better than nothing but not much. It's likely to be another 10 days or so before I seeing properly again, I'm not happy about it.

The trouble is that I have no-one else to blame but myself. Somehow, I forgot to take them out before I went to bed. When I woke up on Friday my case was empty. I did find one lens on the bed, but the other hasn't turned up. Plus my eyes were very sore. I thought perhaps that the other lens was stuck round the back, but 4 hours in A&E (Aspiring & Enema, according to my mate Dave) failed to find it. As they are made specially for me, rather than being over the counter, it is generally a good week and a bit to replace them.

Theoretically I could drive with just one, but it's a bit dodgy, TBH. So I have a week of being housebound to look forward to 

I do like my workshop though.


----------



## JakeS

Steve Maskery":1nlew65b said:


> 4 hours in A&E



4 hours?! You got off lucky! I'm not sure I've ever been in A&E for anything less than six. At the Grantham hospital they've even got a rolling LCD display that constantly reads "current wait time: approximately thirty minutes" just to rub it in.

(Sorry to hear about your contact; it's things like that that put me off the things in the first place, I'm happy with glasses for now!)


----------



## Steve Maskery

When I went over to the Community Workshop yesterday, I was greeted by Colin, who is the technician at the adjacent school, with my Incra router plate, which now has a very neat hole in it which lines up perfectly with the rise & fall nut of the T10 router that I have very generously been given to replace my 625. Thanks, Bob, it is very kind of you.

I also persuaded one of the guys there who was teaching someone to do some turning, to turn me a little plug to keep the dust out. My excuse was that, having lost a contact lens, I couldn't see properly with just one eye. "I've only got one eye as well", says he, "This one is plastic!". So with a penny glued to the top, filed down ever so slightly, I now have a smashing little plug that I can remove with a magnet. 

















I've already commented on the difficult-to-understand decision to mount the router at 45 deg, forcing me to mount the plate running front-to-back rather than the more conventional left-to-right in order to keep that rise & fall nut accessible at the front.






It has another downside, I have discovered. Once installed, I couldn't open the lid! The knob fouls the frame of my RT carcase. Fortunately this is easily overcome by simply removing one of the router handles.






So finally, after nearly 4 years, I have a useable RT in my workshop.











My fence has survived its ordeal in the barn virtually unscathed, as it was wrapped in industrial clingfilm, as was the RT itself, except that that was ripped open by the thieves, which is why it looked rather less happy.

So all I need to do now is sort out some T-track. My fence is a bit shorter than the table, and is being held by a couple of trigger clamps, which are not ideal, as they are at the limits of their reach. Previously, I had routed slots through the top to connect a Bristol lever to a sliding nut below. It was fine, except for the fact that debris used to fall through and mess up the drawers underneath. Using T-track instead will solve that drawback.

I have a little job to do for Chris (Ray's wife), but I need to be able to see properly, first. However, I had a bit of good news today, in that the hospital that supplies my bespoke contact lenses rang to say they had received it and I would get it by post tomorrow. That is fantastic, given that the usual turnaround is a week or so. I left a message on their answering machine on Saturday, so it would not have been actioned until Monday, so the order was turned around in less that 48 hours. Brilliant.


----------



## mseries

is that a modified T10 or is it a T11, it looks like a T11 with the QR mouldings in the base


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well it says T10 on the plate.


----------



## Racers

And there was me thinking RT = Radio Telescope!

Nice one Steve, and good news on the lens.

Pete


----------



## blackrodd

And I'm 1,500, well done Steve on an interesting build.
Regards Rodders


----------



## Steve Maskery

I wasn't expecting Ray to come this week, but yesterday I learned that he planned to come over. Although the only big job left is the external boarding, and it's still too cold at nights to have a decent stretch to install it, there are other loose ends.

So we put back the bottom piece of cladding at the front, which we'd had to remove to fit the block paving and there was also the issue of the black paving at the very back, where it steps down.

We also planned to remove a lot of the decking around the log cabin. It's in a pretty poor condition, 







but I still had a couple of large machines in there which need a ramp to remove them. So we brought down what's left of my spindle moulder, a cabinet on wheels and my drum sander.

The drum sander, whilst fairly scruffy after its ordeal, is at least, intact.






The drive bed is filthy, mind, and the machine is generally covered in guano and such, but it will clean up OK, I'm sure. The bed comes up fine with a spray of Flash and a kitchen scrubbing brush.






So whilst I was doing that (actually I was simply keeping out of the way, because) Ray was doing this






cutting and fitting blocks to finish off the steps at the back. This is the layout, he's not finished it at this point!






There is a step down of about 220mm. That is how much we have had to build up overall.

Then I started to rip up the decking and remove the screws






and when Ray had finished the steps, he took over the demolition






By this time it was nearly 4pm and was feeling distinctly unwell. The combination of weird eyesight (no, my new contact lens did not arrive today  ) and more sun that we've had this year, is not a good combo. I was not firing on all cylinders.

So when Ray went I couldn't face clearing up, I'll do it tomorrow.






so I lay down in a dark room for an hour or so and now feel a lot better. It's kyboshed my planned evening of sausage-making though, I have a new recipe I want to try as well as some proper hog casings.


----------



## monkeybiter

Has a post gone missing? I had the usual email but denied access through the usual route.

Mod Edit:- a lot of Non Topic related posts were moved to save cluttering up the OP's thread.


----------



## Halo Jones

Steve's moved to the "dark web" :lol:


----------



## Eric The Viking

Giles":2ljs30cu said:


> "I warned him not to build that workshop over the hellmouth."



Sorry, couldn't resist - too much Buffy when we were younger. At least I've now managed to stop t'other half keeping a David Boreanaz calendar on the back of her surgery door...


----------



## monkeybiter

Eric The Viking":t2ae6gkg said:


> - too much Buffy when we were younger.



Yes, it was very watchable :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

The day did not start well.

I woke thinking that I wished Ray wasn't coming today. The last few days I've not been on top form.

But fortunately he was a bit late, by which time I had my boots on, even if my brain was still on standby.

The problem is that I'd not done much since Ray was last here. My new contact lens didn't arrive until Saturday, then the weather was lousy, then I went to visit my ailing mum, then my car went in for MOT and failed, then, then, then. I was full of excuses. But Ray was frustrated, so we had a bit of oil-on-water to be doing.

Anyway, once we got on an even keel again, we set to. All the gravel that was here by the back door






is now here at the front






We set out some levels. The problem is that the gateway entrance is not level and falls in the wrong direction, as does the old concrete by the house. The previous patio was a dish, it flooded when when it rained, it didn't drain, and just became a mud pond. We need to get the levels better than that. But we also have to take into account what passes for a damp-proof course in this old house.






So once we had figured out how best to do this, we set up some markers and string and Ray mattocked and spaded, whilst I wheelbarrowed.











We shifted a good couple of cubic metres






The place makes Steptoe's yard look like Kew. The front is starting to look as scruffy as the back and I hate it.

Anyway, I've promised Ray that that last bit of digging out will be done before he comes again. I just need to "get my finger out" as he put it.


----------



## Halo Jones

Ray sounds a bit like my dad. He just doesn't understand how people can't keep going, and going, and going, just like he can. He then gets frustrated!

If it makes you feel any better I "finished" my shed early in 2011 and the driveway is still bare compacted earth that forms great big puddles every time it rains. I do have a slight excuse in that we have had two kids in that time.
The muddy puddle will be transformed soon though as my wife announced I had to go and collect 600 granite setts last month. She didn't realise our estate car would only take 50 at a time before the suspension was creaking. It took me 2 weeks of collecting a car load every night after work before I got them all. Luckily the folks we bought them off were very understanding and just glad that they were dissapearing! I keep meaning to borrow a gieger counter from work to see if there is any substantial radiation coming from the granite monolith that is now in our garden!

Just keep gently at it and all the hard work will soon be over.

H.


----------



## Wizard9999

A week since Ray was last with you Steve, based on posts anyway. Is he coming this week, and dare I ask if the digging has been finished? 

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, he should be here shortly. And yes, I have "got my finger out", as he put it. That last patch up to the ivy has been dug out, the ivy has been cut back and taken to the tip, a fair bit of the rubble has also gone to the tip, and the patch that used to be the raised bed in the shade, by the gates, has been cleared of weeds and dug out a bit. It needs a bit more and I'm just putting my boots on now.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":er8eeg88 said:


> Yes, he should be here shortly. And yes, I have "got my finger out", as he put it. That last patch up to the ivy has been dug out, the ivy has been cut back and taken to the tip, a fair bit of the rubble has also gone to the tip, and the patch that used to be the raised bed in the shade, by the gates, has been cleared of weeds and dug out a bit. It needs a bit more and I'm just putting my boots on now.



Sounds like a fair bit more than a fingers worth of effort Steve, no need for any frosty silences this morning  . Hope the sun is shining with you as it is here, so you can get plenty more done today.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well you might not think so to look at the place, but we have done quite a lot today.

First I toddled off and borrowed Alan's Hilti again, which is a real effort-saver and started to dig out the concrete that had supported the edging of the old patio. I'd already cleared the raised bed of the triffids and Ray started to clear out the boundary line.
















With the boundary line clear we set a block at where we thought it should end up and checked that we had a slope. We do, it's about 1:100 away from the house.






Up at the house end, the services look a bit of a mess, but we can tidy them up quite a bit, we think.






So we carried on like this all day. Once we had a pile of broken concrete, Ray carried on digging it out whilst I started to take it to the tip. I've made 9 trips today. Goodness knows how many tons of rubble I've lifted and chucked, I'll swear my arms are 2" longer than they were this morning.

Another bit of good today. Martin, my plumber friend, rang to ask if I had any OSB left over. So he turned up with a mate at tea-time and shifted all the 18mm offcuts from when I did Mum's garage roof a couple of months ago, as well as all of that 11mm that came with the trusses. It's metric and doesn't fit my 2ft layout. I have just one sheet left which will make a tool-board behind my bench and so now I have much better access to the far corner. It means I can now finish off the skirting behind there. I still have 2 full sheets of the 18mm stuff, but Ray reckons we'll need them the do the patio. So I'm a happy bunny, got rid of stuff that was in the way and even got paid (a bit) for it. Win-win.






So I am pleasantly knackered. We still have quite a bit to dig out, both because the patio will be a tad lower at the garden end than the old one was, and because these blocks are 65mm rather than 50mm. But it has been very productive, and best of all, harmony is restored.


----------



## Racers

Steve, some form of bench over those services would tidy them up, you could sit with a G&T admiring your work.
Its looking good now Steve!

Pete

Speedo turned to 6000 on that post, glad it was a reply to you Steve


----------



## Steve Maskery

Racers":3qagtwc9 said:


> Steve, some form of bench over those services would tidy them up, you could sit with a G&T admiring your work.



Hi Pete
TBH I shall probably just keep the bins there. It never ever gets any sun there and though I'm rather photophobic, hence the permanent shades, I do like to sit in the sun. I was thinking of building a Lutyens bench for the Esplanade, but have come to the conclusion that it is a triumph of style over comfort. And as you say, the Nice View is in the other direction.



Racers":3qagtwc9 said:


> Speedo turned to 6000 on that post, glad it was a reply to you Steve



Congratulations! But you still have a way to go to catch me up, matey!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, poo. Twice in one day.

The first was the discovery that the soil pipe from the log cabin is just an inch or so below the sand






We are trying to lower the patio level to improve watershed. I hope Ray has some ideas, because I don't.

I spent the morning digging out more concrete and taking it to the tip. It was whilst doing this that I discovered the not-very-subterranean soil pipe.

When the rain started this afternoon I retreated to the workshop and did some clearing up. At one point I thought I heard something behind me, but when I turned, there was no-one there. But then, a second time, there was a definite flurry. I turned to see a pigeon wandering about as if he owned the place. He must have got in this morning when I left the door open. So I opened the door and turned the lights out, hoping he would aim for the light. He did, and promptly banged his head on the window. So there I was, chasing this pesky bird about my workshop with a stick, and said bird refusing to take the obvious way out, which would be best for both of us.

Eventually he did leave, and left me with some cleaning up to do, on some wood, the floor and my TS. Actually the patch on the TS is the cleanest part of it. I recommend pigeon poo as a TS restorer.

I wonder if the forum software will parse "poo" intact, or will it come out as "pineapple"?

So yes, poo-poo. Or should that be pineapple-pineapple?


----------



## rafezetter

Pigeon poo is mildy acidic, hence why the faces of most gargoyles and fine details on limestone buildings have all been melted off. (well that and acid rain)

I can just imagine you and pigeon "go to the light... *bang* no, through the doorway!" made me laugh.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray's been today. We did a bit last week as well, but that was same-old-same-old, digging out and tipping. We were supposed to e doing Thursday as well, but I started the day at 5am in excruciating pain and spent the rest of the day in A&E. It was another kidney stone attack, so at least I knew what it was. However, since then I've felt better than for a long time. I've even summoned up the energy to do my accounts. Go figure. 

So today we spent the morning getting our levels right. Now didn't we do that twice before? Yes we did, but this time it was to get fixed datum points. We have worked out we can accommodate the soil pipe - just - and still have a fall in the right direction. But it is not straightforward. For a start, the concrete driveway, where it meets my back yard, i.e. the gate-line, has a significant fall on it TOWARDS the house, not away from it. So we have decided to set out the 1:100 fall from everywhere we can to the far RH corner. We think that will work.

So we set a string line line down the boundary (the fence itself is a few inches over to the neighbours' side, which is as it should be - I just wish the triffid ivy knew that), and then checked that it was square to the house, which will make laying the blocks easier. It was spot on.






So Ray reminded me how to mix cement






And he started to lay a foundation layer of old bricks, with the new blocks up to the string. I kept him fed with mortar, blocks and coffee.
















So this afternoon we got the outer row down the fence and almost across the conservatory. Ray grumbled that 54 blocks was not much to show for a day's work, and what was going to be a 2-day job will now be a 4-day job. But at least they are 54 blocks in the right place and quite frankly it is a relief to have stuff going down instead of always coming up. 

So I followed Ray back home, dumping 8 bags of rubble to the tip on the way, and returning with another 80 blocks in the back of my car waiting to be unloaded. They can wait until tomorrow, now.


----------



## Mcluma

What is it with all these pallets in your garden?


----------



## paulm

It's turned into a bit of a slog and endurance test towards the end Steve, but you're getting there, and it will be a "proper job" you can be proud of when you're done 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Steve Maskery

Mcluma":37gx25oi said:


> What is it with all these pallets in your garden?



I put them down when the blocks came up so that I could get to the washing line without treading in the sand too much. Vain hope. There is sand all over the house. I even found some on my bedroom carpet, and although I do have many bad habit, going to bed with my boots on isn't one of them.
As soon as the patio is down I shall make a wood store and all the wood in the garden will be chopped and stacked ready for the winter.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had Ray for 2 days this week, as he wanted to see some real progress. I'm sure he must regret starting all this. I do. But every time we come up against a problem, he figures out a couple of ways out and invariably takes the one that will produce the better job. "If we are going to do it, we may as well do it properly", has been uttered more than once, even if between gritted teeth.

So we started where we left off, cutting a block to fill the gap in the middle of a row.












Remember the soil pipe? Well the good news is that there is quite a fall on it, so once we get a foot or so away from the cabin we will be able to get some sand underneath it, not as much as we might like, but some. The edging rows are being cemented in, of course, so we can get away with a bit of whittling











And so we continued all the time me mixing and shovelling











We have a 1:100 fall to the far right corner, so we put some weep holes in the back edge






And so, at the end of the day, we have some edges that are done, some half done and the bit by the gate and the old raised bed yet to start.
















The back is now starting to look better, rather than worse each week, which I'm really glad about, as it was starting to get me down. We have got rid of a very large part of the rubble, either to the tip or as foundations.

I've also had some good news on the cladding front. The BCO suggested I use Glasroc. But several people, including one or two on this forum, have pointed out that that is not a very good idea, as it is Gypsum based and meant for semi-exposed areas, not fully external.

But I've found a product called Cempanel. Not only will it fit the bill nicely, but it is cheaper than the Glasroc. Still a lot of money, given that I've already bought the shiplap, but it's a solution, and a good one at that.

Ray can't come next Wednesday, but Thursday, all being well. He's left me with some homework. I have to cut membrane for the narrow strip between the fence and the retaining edge and fill it with gravel. The fence is entirely on the neighbours' plot and we have built to the boundary line. I just hope I can keep that horrible ivy stuff at bay. It's a menace.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I cut some membrane for the ditch and filled it with the gravel that we'd swept up from the back door.











I ran out of membrane, so there is 5ft short up at the house end. But we'll need to get some for the area around the back door, so I'll just hang on until then.






So when Ray asks me tonight if I've done anything, I can look him in the eye and say, "Yes".

----------------------------

I then decided to do a bit to my RT. My last plate had been modified to take a vac hose in line with the cutter. It vastly improves the DX when routing grooves (as opposed to edge-routing). Because this plate is oriented front to back there is not really enough room to drill a big hole in the plate without compromising the plate itself, so I decided to drill it through the table top. It does put it rather further away from the cutter than I would like, but it's OK.






I wanted the neatest of neat holes. After all, this is my ultimate table top, I don't want to have to make it again, so it must be right. Perfectly right.

So I'd figured that trying to drill a 30mm hole by hand would not be perfect, so I decided to drill a 25mm hole and then flush-trim it to 30mm with a template.











Unfortunately, something went wrong. I still don't know what it was, but I ended up with a hole that wasn't even round, let alone the right size. I was pig sick. I had to redo it at 40mm to get it neat and then line it with a piece of waste-pipe.











I then routed it slightly to give a soft edge. I even got that slightly too deep, but nothing a quick whizz with P240 couldn't sort out. So although it does look reasonable, I know that it is a bodge, and this was supposed to be perfect. I most certainly didn't get it Right First Time this time


----------



## Steve Maskery

So now I do have a fairly neat DX hole, it's just that I know it is a bodge.

I have a piece of vac hose (courtesy of Ray - he never throws anything away) that collects dust pretty close to where it is created and it is accessible from the RH side wheareas before I had to keep the front door open.
















The end result is OK, but only OK. I am not pleased with myself.

If you want to see it, or at least its predecessor, in action, I have a film on youtube.


----------



## JakeS

Steve Maskery":1q22pyxd said:


> Unfortunately, something went wrong. I still don't know what it was, but I ended up with a hole that wasn't even hound, let alone the right size.



It was probably that dodgy-looking router you were using...

In all seriousness, I've had a little 500W 1/4" router move a template around when it was held 'tight' with those squeezy one-handed clamps you have in that picture, so if those are what you used here, I'd put the blame there, personally. I figured that as the blades of the router bit contact the side, they pull in a little bit, and if the template isn't firm enough the pulling of the bearing on the template can dislodge it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well that would certainly make sense, Jake, but I wasn't aware that that had actually happened.
Still, it is as it is.
S

PS And if I still had my little MOF96E or my wonderful 177E, I wouldn't need to use such a dodgy-looking router...


----------



## RogerS

Just remember, Steve, that what you have there round your perimeter is a small French drain and like all useless French drains, it will clog up within months and stop working.


----------



## doctor Bob

I'm sure it will all look great, I have had the will power to read the whole thread, done up to about page 10 then dipped in and out.
I suspect the guy cutting the blocks will suffer with lung disease in later life, I really hope he hasn't cut too many without a mask.


----------



## Glynne

Steve, the dust extraction looks really good and I liked the video.
I'm thinking of doing the same but don't want to compromise the insert plate (although mine is sited the normal way). I'm guessing that the ideal position is a close to the cutter as possible but would be interested to see how far yours is?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Bob, I've no doubt you are right, but when I've asked him if he wants a mask or goggles, I get a "Naaaiirr!"

Glynne the hole and cutter are 150mm between centres.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good day today. I woke up actually feeling good. I was hoovering at 8am! No idea why. (Well I know why I was hoovering but ...)

So by the time Ray arrived I'd cut back a barrow load of ivy and brambles, and got the mixer out, assembled and ready to go. I think Ray was pleasantly shocked.

We set out a string for the left hand fence. Yes I know the fence panels are dead, but because of the neighbours' trees, if I took them out, I wouldn't be able to slot new ones in. Anyway it's not a priority. So with me mixing and carrying, Ray laid the blocks.





















The existing driveway concrete is far from straight






It gets a bit messy around the gate posts. They are enormous iron girders set into concrete. I hope Ray doesn't chip too much away...






But we're trying to keep everything as square and straight as possible











So that's another 140 blocks down

Time to get cleaned up and on my way to Peter's Do (yes, I know it's only Thursday, but I'm walking...)


----------



## Glynne

Thanks Steve. See you Saturday.


----------



## damo8604

Phew...... what an epic journey!

I don't mean the build (which of course is a magnificent achievement) but just getting through this thread!

I joined the forum yesterday and mentioned I am at the beginning of building my workshop (pouring the footings this afternoon after work), someone kindly directed me to this post which I started reading yesterday and finished today.

I hope to post pictures of my build as I go, although mine is a very small build in comparison, just a measly 14' square timber workshop.

Well done on a fantastic job..... any ideas where I can get myself a Ray local to Surrey/Hants?

Kind regards
Damian


----------



## MickCheese

damo8604":1ktedh1l said:


> Phew...... what an epic journey!
> 
> I don't mean the build (which of course is a magnificent achievement) but just getting through this thread!
> 
> I joined the forum yesterday and mentioned I am at the beginning of building my workshop (pouring the footings this afternoon after work), someone kindly directed me to this post which I started reading yesterday and finished today.
> 
> I hope to post pictures of my build as I go, although mine is a very small build in comparison, just a measly 14' square timber workshop.
> 
> Well done on a fantastic job..... any ideas where I can get myself a Ray local to Surrey/Hants?
> 
> Kind regards
> Damian



You have to kidnap your own Ray it seems.

Mick


----------



## Steve Maskery

Up to now I've been clamping my fence to the RT table top but that has not been very satisfactory as the new table top is a few inches shorter than my fence. On my previous top, the fence was bolted through slots in the top. This was a good fix, except for the fact that detritus would fall through andmess up the top drawer.

At the weekend, Eric the Viking very kindly gave me a length of T-track, so this afternoon I set to fitting it. I don't have fence rods long enough to span my table, so it was a case of being very diligent in keeping the fence pressed hard against the table edge. This is not so difficult when fitting the RH track (as viewed from the back), as the forces of the cut pull the fence in. It's a different story on the LH side. Indeed, as careful as I was, I did slip very slightly, but fortunately it was not a finish cut, so it disappeared on the next pass.






At that point my camera battery died, so I'm afraid I have only a couple of finished shots, taken with my phone. But basically I squared off the routed ends and screwed in the track. The fence is then held down with Bristol levers and sliding nuts.











With the great benefit of hindsight, I wish I'd made them an inch or two longer. The fence does reach the centre of the cutter, but there are many times that I need it to come to the front limit of the cutter. The fence will do that, but it is extended to its limit to do that. However, I do have plenty of space in the base to drill a new pair of holes that would give me that extra bit of wiggle room. I am a bit annoyed. I wasn't short of track, I could easily have afforded that bit extra. It seems that everything I do at the mo is "good but no cigar", and that bugs me. I know how to do it, I know what is important, and I still make mistakes. My brain simply isn't working like it used to. I do hope that this is not permanent, I want to do stuff and do it properly. Heigh ho.

So the upshot is that my RT is perfectly useable. I don't have a mitre track yet, but I very rarely need it. I have a good 10" support in front of the cutter and the same behind it, when the fence is farthest back. It's good.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":2watp9jw said:


> I want to do stuff and do it properly. Heigh ho.
> 
> So the upshot is that my RT is perfectly useable. I don't have a mitre track yet, but I very rarely need it. I have a good 10" support in front of the cutter and the same behind it, when the fence is farthest back. It's good.



I'm always rusty and miss the obvious after a few days away from work. It lasts a few hours and then you get back into the swing. It's because you've not been doing the intricate stuff regularly Steve, it will come back I guarantee.

Couldn't you rout the slots a little longer and slide the track further into the table? You would loose the inch or so at the back edge but you would have the full cover of the bit where you need it.


----------



## Panda

damo8604":x18ubpf2 said:


> Phew...... what an epic journey!
> 
> I don't mean the build (which of course is a magnificent achievement) but just getting through this thread!
> 
> I joined the forum yesterday and mentioned I am at the beginning of building my workshop (pouring the footings this afternoon after work), someone kindly directed me to this post which I started reading yesterday and finished today.
> 
> I hope to post pictures of my build as I go, although mine is a very small build in comparison, just a measly 14' square timber workshop.
> 
> Well done on a fantastic job..... any ideas where I can get myself a Ray local to Surrey/Hants?
> 
> Kind regards
> Damian



I´m new here too and I think Steve´s project is really inspiring! Not planning to build a workshop at the moment, but I hope to be able to start (and finish a big project like this in the future.


----------



## cammy9r

Hi, thats a great workshop. Im only on page 85 just when the rain water drainage is getting done. Do the downpipes run straight into the soakaway/sump. If so it wont be that long until it starts to fill with silt from the roof. It might be near useless in a few years. 
I know im a bit late to this thread but you could install a silt trap with easy access near the front to clear out every month or two, it will greatly increase the life of the soak away. 
Ok im off to do stuff and will continue with the thread later, im enjoying it. Good luck with the rest of the build.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had Ray two days this week, but the photography isn't that exciting, I'm afraid.

We've finished the edging to the patio and started the levelling.

The bit against the house is a bit of a mess, but it's a jolly sight better than it was before.






I've done loads of trips to the tip, but at least now the area is clear of rubbish and it looks huge! If I'm lucky I shall be able to turn my car round instead of having to back it out with only an inch or two clearance each side.






We laid some membrane in the lower area






And started to rake out to the required level. we have quite a bit of stuff to shift, becasue these blocks are 65mm rather than the 55mm that we took up, and we have introduced a decent fall over the area.






All the time I was going to the tip and riddling the sand we were taking up so that we can re-use it.

Ray wants to lay the area in 2 weeks time, preferably the Thursday & Friday, but all the people I would normally ask are away or at work. He is prepared to do it on the Saturday, but I need to get some muscle together, so if anyone is available and feels like helping to shift 3500 blocks...

I've also been doing some work on my drill press table, but I'll post all that together so that it doesn't get strung out out over several pages.


----------



## Racers

Count me in Steve and I will try and drag Sam and possibly Tom with me.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you Pete, that is great. What day can you make? Charlie has booked Thursday and Friday as hols - he never takes his full complement, apparently.
He's a star, too.

As ever there will be unlimited bacon butties and cake. Until it runs out, anyway.


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve

Was reading elsewhere that Mike G has had to replace the breather membrane on his new workshop roof as it has been exposed to UV for too long and he had water coming through his roof. Made me think of you as, unless I have missed it, the sides and rear of your workshop aren't clad yet. May be worth checking to make sure everything is still weather tight.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good point, but all is well AFAIAA. I do hope to get the cladding sorted before the end of August. My original idea was to use the Glasroc suggested by the BCO and painting it with Snowcem. But the Snowcem needs temps above 10C and dry weather. Until quite recently it has been getting well below 10 at night, and then when things did warm up we've had thunderstorms.

But now I have found a better alternative. It doesn't need the Snowcem, I can use standard masonry paint.

I just need to get this flipping patio finished. I'm fed up of treading sand everywhere.


----------



## Racers

Steve Maskery":2t7cl4wn said:


> Thank you Pete, that is great. What day can you make? Charlie has booked Thursday and Friday as hols - he never takes his full complement, apparently.
> He's a star, too.
> 
> As ever there will be unlimited bacon butties and cake. Until it runs out, anyway.



It will have to be saterday Steve. 

Pete


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":1afuzpjh said:


> Good point, but all is well AFAIAA. I do hope to get the cladding sorted before the end of August. My original idea was to use the Glasroc suggested by the BCO and painting it with Snowcem. But the Snowcem needs temps above 10C and dry weather. Until quite recently it has been getting well below 10 at night, and then when things did warm up we've had thunderstorms.
> 
> But not I have found a better alternative. It doesn't need the Snowcem, I can use standard masonry paint.
> 
> I just need to get this flipping patio finished. I'm fed up of treading sand everywhere.



Good to hear, I guess being on the sides and somewhat shielded by fences your's gets less direct sun than Mike's roof.

Hear what you're saying re temp, on Friday I actually lit a fire it was so damn chilly in the evening. July 21st and the fire burning, crazy! So if the Snowcem alternative can deal with colder nights that is good news indeed.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Over the last couple of weeks I've been working on my drill press table in between the rest of the stuff. My old table did not take kindly to spending two years in a barn with pigeons.

It consists of a base board that is bolted to the machine's cast iron table, and a bed that slides to and fro on top of it. The fence itself can part to go round the column of the DP, which means I don't sacrifice any depth of throat at all and I can use small drills without the chuck fouling the fence.

So the base and bed are cut out and sanded:







The slots are made by dropping on






You have to be careful when dropping on; it's a good idea to use a back-stop to stop the workpiece from kicking back. It also helps to drop on in exactly the same spot each time, as I was taking out only 2-3mm each pass.






There are also rebates and V-grooves to cut






It's best to make the fence in one long piece, if you can, and then cut to length






The slots for the fence were again made by dropping on. I'd got a rather more substantial back-stop this time.I also fitted a limit stop to ensure that both halves were the same.






When gluing up it is vital that the fence is glued dead square











The fence extensions are made in the same way


----------



## Steve Maskery

A couple of nuts are embedded into the underside of the sliding bed





and the baseboard is bolted to the machine






I routed some grooves for the T-track, but it needs only to be 7mm deep in the bed, as I am going to build it up with a layer of 7mm MDF. The two outer pieces are screwed down, the centre piece just sits between the T-tracks and is sacrificial.






So this is the finished fence
















I remembered it worked really well, so I've made it as a straight copy of its predecessor. But I'd forgotten that I'd got the Bristol levers too close together at the back. One works unimpeded, the other does not. I wish I'd remembered, it would have been an easy thing to alter. Heigh ho. But it does all work and it makes drilling holes a lot easier.

The bananas work well but I need to make a new stop. This fence is a tad taller than its predecessor and the stop doesn't quite reach the bed, so thin stuff can slip underneath it. But that is for another day.


----------



## The Bear

I remember this fence in a magazine and have been meaning to make one for years.

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well if this inspires you to get on with it, I shall be pleased. Just work out the geometry of your Bristol levers first! The general design is excellent, EIISSM.


----------



## The Bear

Steve my workshop is in storage at the mo following a house move. But I will do it one day.

Mark


----------



## Melvb

What are the vee grooves for, I am guessing something do with registering location and keeping them in line, but how?


----------



## damo8604

I love reading this thread, I can't wait to get my workshop built so that I can start furnishing it with super cool tools!

I won't post a WIP thread yet as so far I've only built a retaining wall to act as 'posh shuttering' for my concrete slab pour but once my timber arrives I'll get posting


----------



## Steve Maskery

Melvb":1p4zvjt4 said:


> What are the vee grooves for, I am guessing something do with registering location and keeping them in line, but how?


Ah yes, I missed that bit out. Sorry.

They are diamond keyways. A square-section key is glued into one half and slides in the other. It keeps the two parts aligned and sliding nicely without jamming. I use that technique a lot in my jigs.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Here you are, you can see the diamond keys here:










They allow the extensions to slide over the fence, and the fence halves to slide over the bed, and the bed to slide over the fixed bed.

You do have to make the keys very accurately. If they are too big the two parts will not mate properly, if they are too small then the two parts will slide any which way and there will be no accuracy.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today we have mostly been levelling the hardcore.

We had to dig out a wall. This was an out-house originally, and we thought we could simply go over it, but actually is was an inch or more too high, too high to ignore.






I've been riddling the dirty sand so that we can use it again






Ray has been getting the hardcore to the right level. It means we can take some out from where it is too high and use it where we need to make up.
















Tomorrow, I'm going over to Ray's to collect a Whacker. We'll whack the new stuff before we sand it.

The rest of the blocks are arriving Friday next week. My mate Charlie is helping on Friday, and Pete and my brother Brian are helping on Saturday, so all being well it will be done by Saturday week. I do hope so as I am fed up with sweeping up sand inside the house.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Steve, is Ray on the payroll or do you have a photo of him in bed with Elvis Costello, the Nolan Sisters and Red Rum? I accept I'm being a nosy git so feel free to tell me to jog on. Just slightly intrigued at the nature of the relationship given the staggering amount of effort he's put in


----------



## Steve Maskery

He is a saint, is he not? I am not the only beneficiary of his skills and goodwill. He has done this sort of work, in the mining industry, all his working life. He misses his working life and has a number of "cases" he takes on. I am fortunate to be one such.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

What's his address


----------



## dc_ni

Have you told Ray he has a fan club? :lol: :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I went over to pick Ray up and we came back with a Whacker. There are a few areas of hardcore where we have laid new, and so Ray whacked them whilst I made a couple of screeding boards.

We started at the tap end






Ray did the screeding and I carried the sand






Halfway and we had to reset the angle iron
















With one bay completed it was more whackering






Meanwhile, I was attending to my front path. It was originally laid with wooden retaining boards at the sides, but, of course, they have rotted and the blocks have spread, allowing weeds and soil to fill the considerable gaps between them.






So, whilst I have access to a whacker, it seems like a good idea to re-lay the front path too. I lifted the blocks and dug out for some concrete edging strips






Ray trimmed the concrete up by the wall for me, but there is no photo as the air was thick with dust and I was keeping my eyes well out of it.

I was hoping to get the edging cemented in today so that I could sand and put the blocks back tomorrow or Saturday, but we ran out of time. Actually, we have run out of sand as well. Ray reckons we will need another 4 bags.

So the back looks even better, even if the front suddenly looks a lot worse.






I've been left with strict instructions to Keep Off The Sand. 

He is back on Tuesday, all being well. I really want to get this done ASAP, now, as I am fed up of the sand and I really want to get the cladding of the workshop done before "summer", such as it is, runs out. Ha.


----------



## lurker

All the local cats are going to have a great time tonight in all that sand


----------



## Racers

lurker":1uxljp6g said:


> All the local cats are going to have a great time tonight in all that sand



Yes they will be laying lots of "cat eggs" just pop them somewhere warm and they will hatch into kittens. 

Pete


----------



## n0legs

^^^^^^^^ 
:lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

My previous SCMS was the Bosch 10" jobbie and one of the best things I ever built was a fence. I could just dial the length I needed and it would come out right. But that fence had a bit of a flaw. I made it to have a T-slot in it, by laminating. Unfortunately I chose to laminate a 6mm layer of ply onto an 18mm piece of MDF. As well as the glue line being far from central, it was very susceptible to changes in temperature. It worked like a bimetallic strip. If I took it outside to work, it would bend like a banana.

So rather than have a T-slot in the front, I have made this stop to clamp over the top.

The challenge is to attach the fence to the saw in exactly the same place every time. I've done this by shaping the underside to it into the moulding of the machine.

I didn't take any WIP shots, I'm afraid, but here are some pics of the finished fence.


----------



## wcndave

Can't quite make it out, does it fit over the top of the machine fence?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Dave
Not quite. I've removed the LH fence and this fits into the same channel in the casting that the fence was in originally.


----------



## wcndave

Ah ok, bit hard to see how it all fits together, and how those clamps at the back work. I was looking at doing something similar at the weekend, and decided I would attach fence to existing fence with bolts, and then put on fixed bolt at end and butt the jig up against that when installing, to ensure a simple repeated positioning. Seems much simpler.

BTW: nice plan, include all your shop projects in the workshop build to get this thread to 1000 pages! ;-)


----------



## Adam9453

Looks good steve, r.e. positioning of the fence each time you install it, could you just add a vertical mark on the back of the machine and the fence so that when they line up, you know your fence is bang on where it should be horizontally?


----------



## Steve Maskery

My previous fence was located onto the ali fence with a couple of dowels and a toggle clamp. But if I did that here, the new fence would have to be very high indeed, as the stop has to ride along the top. Hence removing the original fence.

My previous one had a T-slot along the front, so I didn't need clearance over the top for the stop.

As for horizotal positioning, I've shaped the bottom of the mounting block so that it can only go in one position.


----------



## Wizard9999

wcndave":2jn825ke said:


> BTW: nice plan, include all your shop projects in the workshop build to get this thread to 1000 pages! ;-)



Don't forget the landscaping of the garden :wink: 

Maybe just change the title of the thread to "Steve's [_insert as applicable_]"


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Today oi as mostly been.......


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Mind you, I've also found building projects have a way of galvanising action all around the original intent. Something to do with momentum and the A to B comparison of the new thing next to the older things I think. Whenever I've finished having anything built, it always makes the thing next to it look tired and in need of redecorating/renewing/overhauling etc. That coupled with the momentum gained from many weeks of decisive action and you just get swept onto the next job. A very positive process in fact.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I am well aware that the patio project is a little Off Topic, but it is part of the bigger project.

I'm hoping to get the cladding done as soon as the patio is finished, not least because Ray is going on holiday and then I am (hoorah!), and after that we shall be autumn, as the summer will be over. Ha-ha.


----------



## wcndave

Patio... Router table build, drill press table, cleaning machines, SCMS fences.... Just call the thread "Steve's", don't need any "insert here", saves space for the rest of us as well.

we can give it a name perhaps? Steve's...... Blog!


----------



## Steve Maskery

If I'd had any sense whatsoever I would have set up a proper blog and driven traffic to my website. But when I started, I never for one moment thought that it would grow to this.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":2infiznv said:


> Ray is going on holiday and then I am (hoorah!)



Where are you going? BTW did I once see a youtube vid of you doing some volunteer work in Africa?


----------



## AES

Steve wrote, QUOTE: But when I started, I never for one moment thought that it would grow to this. UNQUOTE:

Now THAT rings a bell Steve  

AES


----------



## Wizard9999

Steve Maskery":3lw2jbhc said:


> I am well aware that the patio project is a little Off Topic, but it is part of the bigger project.



Steve

My comment was only meant as light hearted banter. This thread started with the sentence "I've finally thrown off the cloak of lethargy and put on the mantle of let's get on with it."

Well, whether it is workshop, shop projects or patios its all good if it means that cloak of lethargy remains well and truly thrown off!  

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

monkeybiter":u0ib3sbt said:


> Where are you going? BTW did I once see a youtube vid of you doing some volunteer work in Africa?



I have done a few NGO trips in the past. Mexico, Sierra Leone, Zambia. All very poor places for most of the population. But his is HOLIDAY. Apart from a few nights in Youth Hostels, I've not had a holiday for 6 years, not since my BXW left to join a religious community. So I'm really looking forward to this. I'm going to visit a friend whom I have never actually met. We speak on Skype every week and always end up laughing, so I hope we get on as well in the flesh, otherwise it's going to be a very long week, for him, anyway. You know what they say about visitors and fish...

My mate Bob is coming with me for the first leg (we are going to do New York, and then he comes back for a wedding) and I fly on. Can't wait. I can't afford it, not sustainably, but you are a long time dead.

Terry - no offence taken, not at all.


----------



## Steve Maskery

We started this morning by setting out our first line for the blocks. We'd already marked our string position, so it was easy to set up and we put some boards on the sand so as not to disturb it any more than is absolutely necessary.






Then we started on the blocks, but something wasn't right






We'd got them the wrong way round. So once we'd set the direction correctly, it was plain sailing.






But we had two jobs to do today, the blocks at the back and the edging strips at the front. So once we knew we had it set up for the main blocking, we went out front. A bit of a mix






And we laid the concrete edging out to string lines. There is a bit of a problem. We can have it all square to the house, or we can have it from the gate to the front door, but unfortunately we can't have both, they are a few inches out of alignment. We started out square and ended up gate to door.











I'll leave it a few days before I do any more there, it wouldn't take much to disturb those curbs.

So back to the back. There is an area that needs whackering before we sand and apparently it is easier to do that when it is wet.











So we are ready for Friday. There is an early delivery of blocks and sand and my neighbour has very kindly agreed to leave his car on the road on Friday night if we don't shift all the blocks. But we have made a good start, and I have also had a bit of a tidy-up in the workshop, found new homes for things, chucked out some junk and generally been quite productive. Productive for Steve, anyway.











I wouldn't necessarily have chosen these blocks, they are a bit in-yer-face red, but anything else would have cost me twice as much.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":w4qlkh4c said:


> and I fly on. Can't wait. I can't afford it, not sustainably, but you are a long time dead.



Too true, I should be saving more for my retirement but we love to travel and sometimes can't resist, however I've recently been diagnosed type 2 diabetes and apparently that knocks an average of ten years off your life expectancy. That's a very sobering thought at 52 and calls for a big timetable rethink.


----------



## Max Power

Have they put you on medication Mike ? Or are you borderline thus able to control it with your diet?
Great progress Steve , its all coming together now


----------



## monkeybiter

Metformin 3 times a day for now, might change after my first quarterly blood test.


----------



## beech1948

Hi,

Fellow Type 2 Diabetes sufferer as well. I have found that the info provided by doctors is minimal and thus less useful than it could be. My best approach was to get my GPs specialist diabetes nurse to talk to me.

You will need to control the sugar levels in all food. Your supermarket shopping will take double the time reading the ingredients on all of the things you wish to buy. Basically any more than 6mg sugars per 100mg of food is a no no. Wife an I now buy almost no processed food and we simply have gone back to baking, cooking from scratch and cut out all sugar.

Carbs will become your enemy as well. eg Toast as it all transforms to sugar in your gut. A bare minimum of carbs are necessary.

Exercise is a great help as energy is burned off. Walking, bike rides and weights all help. If you are overweight and have been so for some time then that is one of the principle causes of Type 2 Diabetes. Lose weight. 

I have 1000mg of metformin twice a day. After 4 yrs I think I have my diabetes just about under control. My blood sugar readings are still a bit higher than is desirable but I have to keep trying to control it. My weight has dropped by 24 Kg and I have another 10 Kg to lose but it is slowly being lost.

Doctors are reluctant to issue finger prick testing kits because of the cost to the NHS. NICE recommend about 7x50 finger prick tabs a year. I now test 3 times a day for a whole 7 day week for one week a month. Get your doctor to do a Hb1a blood test every 90 to 95 days once a quarter or 4 times a year. Get hold of the readings and see that a) Sugar levels are reduced b) Cholesterol lever are OK c) Liver function is OK - metformin can affect ( rarely) liver functioning.

Will you lose 10 years off your life. NO. That is an old wife's tale. BUT diabetes will kill you; will cause amputations; will cause loss of blood flow to limbs; will cause blindness and a few other more nasty things.

Its like the rest of life. Get busy; get everything under control; work at the control issue and you will be fine.

I'm sorry if the above sounds a bit prescriptive or even bossy that was not my intent. The intent was to help and be realistic but take it seriously.

Good luck

Al


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray arrived at 8am and a big lorry shortly afterwards. Ray had previously bagged up 3,500 of his spare blocks :shock: and his NDN brought them over along with a couple of bags of sand. The driver could not get all four loops onto the hook and so there was along of scary-sounding noises of rending bag and I honestly couldn't look. I had visions of it all pouring out into a dreadful pile on the road. But Ray assured me that the bags are rated at 5 Tonne and even when full of bricks they are "only" 900kg.

















Then Charlie turned up. You remember Charlie:






Now Charlie enjoys a good workout, so he insisted that he moved the blocks himself and that I did something else! So he brought down blocks and fed them to Ray who laid them while I put my feet up.











Not really. I prepped the front path to 100mm






and then screeded the sand to leave the blocks about 10mm proud, laying the blocks back as I went.






When I got to the gate the blocks didn't quite fit. But they came out so they must go in! Ray is bringing his hydraulic ram tomorrow to try to squeeze them up a bit, but so far it looks good.

Meanwhile Charlie was hard at graft


----------



## Steve Maskery

We ran out of sand, but by 4 o'clock we had this






My back aches, my tennis elbow is swearing at me, but I feel like we have all done a darned good day's work






Got to do it all again tomorrow...


----------



## Steve Maskery

We thought we had arranged for the rest of the blocks to be delivered at 9 am. But at 10 we rang to find out what had happened. He hadn't set out yet  But he did arrive eventually, and he remembered his cross hook today






So in the mean time, Ray had brought his ram to tighten up the blocks on the front path so that the last row of cut blocks go back as they did before.






Pete turned up. You remember Pete






He turned up with a year's supply of Madd Jam and his two lads. They helped me sort out the rest of the front, peeling back the old, rotten, stinky, cheap and nasty membrane and replacing it with new before replacing the pebbles.






So my front looks respectable again, and should stay that way for a while











The path still needs whackering and sanding but even so, it looks a lot better than it did.

Meanwhile at the back of the house Ray and Pete were sanding and laying. 






When Tom, Sam and I had finished at the front, we joined in, too. We all carried blocks, we all shovelled sand and we all got knackered. Even Ray said he had had enough today.

We have a LOT of sand left over. A full builder's bag and another quarter or so. We shall need some, there is still a bit of work to do at the back of the workshop, but it won't use all that, I don't think. Never mind.

So the whole area has been blocked, but now we have a lorra, lorra cutting to do, as Cilla would have said.











Pete, Sam, Tom, thank you all very much for your hard work today. And it only cost me a bacon oatcake and some homemade ice cream. Bargain.


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## Paul Chapman

Looking really good 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## John15

Excellent paving work Steve. It looks really good. I can tell you had the A Team on it. I hope Ray's back is OK - in almost every piccie he's bent double!

John


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## Racers

Thanks Steve the ice cream was very nice!

Pete


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## lurker

Racers":10d08mnf said:


> Thanks Steve the ice cream was very nice!
> 
> Pete



Pictures of you standing around but can't see you actualy doing anything.
You know the rules..... No pictures it didn't happen :wink:


----------



## Racers

Obviously I was supervising, some one had to do it as you weren't there ;-)

Pete


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## Steve Maskery

Yesterday I made cradle to hold Ray's angle grinder. It was crude but effective, complete with a sliding table to carry the blocks. I told Ray about it last night at the folk Club. "You'll be impressed", says I.

wWhen Ray arrived this morning I was in the workshop assembling its component parts and feeling very pleased with myself.

"Forget that", says Ray, "We're hiring a machine".

Oh, OK. Apparently he'd been on to the local industrial estate for a part or his lawn mower and caught sight of a hire firm. On enquiring, we could hire a brick saw for £25 a day or £50 for a week. all including wear and tear, VAT and delivery and collection. No-brainer, really.

Unfortunately, although the machine was there in front of us, the delivery driver was in Lincoln, so we had to wait for him to get back.

So to while away the time, we whackered the front path. I say "we"...
















So now that is done, although there is now a little bit of crumble damage to one of the curbs. That's a pity, really. Anyway. it looks good.

So we did a bit of this and a bit of that and had an early lunch, and just as we were finishing, the lorry turned up, with our machine on it. Parked in exactly the wrong orientation. Apparently it had been loaded with a fork-lift truck, but the driver had only a pallet truck, and the tail gate was not deep enough to accommodate it. I thought that there was not a cat in hell's chance of getting it off, but the driver has done this before and somehow, I have no idea how, he managed to turn the whole machine 90 deg and get it off.






We'd laid some OSB on the patio to take it, and we set to cutting up blocks to fit the edges. I did the marking out and fitting, Ray did the cutting and fitting.











The machine has a water reservoir, so it is much cleaner than using an angle grinder, the dust gets trapped at source. I did have the decency to ask my neighbour if her washing was dry, though, before we started.

So in one afternoon we have done across the gate, up the edge to the log cabin and across to its steps. Also the conservatory wall by the back door. 

On of the things we have found is that after yesterday's torrential rain and our walking all over the place, the sand has compacted quite a lot. Some of our blocks are already down to the edging, even before they have been whackered. I think we may have to lift the edges and put some more sand in. 

If I'm honest, it does not yet look like a pro job. But I'm hoping that when it is all whackered and sanded, it will.






Next shift Thursday, because tomorrow I am having a Grand Day Out, hopefully with some Cracking Cheese.


----------



## Racers

Probably the best move, that machine will have saved you hours and Rays back!

Pete


----------



## Halo Jones

Great progress. I must admit that I am a little nervous about how close Ray's left hand is to that whopping big blade!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I was too. I think a lifetime in the mining industry has made a bit cavalier, sometimes.


----------



## Mcluma

I already thought just cutting these blocks will take you a week,

Getting the machine was a great idea


----------



## blackrodd

My Landscape Architect friend bought one of these some time ago,--
Most hire places have them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nwT43nKhlI
Fast and clean, as you can see.
Regards Rodders


----------



## apreston

I'm rather intrigued by your jig - it sounds quite impressive to have knocked something up with a sliding table "yesterday" - I would probably say I did it "last week" or "last month" - do we get to see it?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Rodders - Those splitters are fine, up to a point. The blocks have to be "friendly" and it's OK if you are just cutting them in half, like in the video, but if you just want to trim 1/2" off one corner, they don't work. 

AP - Sorry, I meant to take a photo today, but forgot. I'll try to remember tomorrow. I'ts nothing very fancy, just a hinged cradle and piece of MDF sliding on a V-groove.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It should be reason to celebrate. We have finished cutting blocks, it's all laid.

















And this is all the waste from the whole job:






Just a couple rubble-bags-worth.

So why the long face? Well we have had some rain in the last few days and the sand has sunk alarmingly. In some places the blocks are already below the edging, and that is before they are whackered. The are some areas - and I don't mean just a few blocks - where we are going to have to lift them and get some more sand down. We are even contemplating lifting the whole lot. I know that Ray is not happy with it.

So I don't know what's going to happen. We haven't whackered it at all yet. Ray is not coming again for a couple of weeks, he is busy next week and then on holiday.

I do have other stuff I can get on with on my own. I need a step up to the log cabin, and there is a pile of wooden cladding at the back of the workshop, which needs to be shifted so we can install the siding. I can order that and give it all a coat of paint before it goes on, so that it will need only one coat in situ.


----------



## apreston

That looks awesome. OK, maybe the photos don't catch the detail that you're not happy with, but I'll bet it's ten times as good as many a driveway that I see laid by so-called pros. It's also obvious that you're aiming for a super high-quality job: not many people cut the fill-in pieces as accurately as you have done, let alone cut 1/2-inch triangles.
And to see that your waste volume totals about - what - two bricks ??
Brilliant work.


----------



## cammy9r

hi, in some of the pics the layer of laying sand looks very thick. Pic P1040017.JPG . It should only be 40mm-50mm max with the rest taken up by type 1 (hardcore). I have made this mistake before on a smaller area. Could not figure out where I had gone wrong, then I found this website http://www.pavingexpert.com/blocks.htm 
It helped a lot, lots of tips from the paving expert on layout and grading. He also explains how to lift and reset sunken areas. I too used a block splitter, a mini belle, and while it did a great job on half cuts I found it chipped the ends on 45 degree cuts so used a big chop saw but was dusty. 
You guys are getting there, it is a lot of work for one or two people. Remember it is easier to sort out the blocks that have sunk before joint sanding.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Cammy, thank you for that. The sand is certainlyuneven, and I can certainly see what you mean, although I don't remember it looking that thick in reality. We aimed for 100mm from top of block to hardcore. The blocks are 65mm nominally so we laid 45mm sand to give us 10mm to whack down. At least, that was the idea.

But I'll have a look at that link. Thanks very much.

Steve


----------



## lurker

Well it certainly looks a lot better than the tip it was.
I'd use the next few weeks to see how it settles - today's rain should have some effect.
Then when Ray gets back you can decide what to do next. 
Don't get preoccupied about it.


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## Mcluma

there is where you went wrong 10mm is not enough, it should be a minimum of 1", it doesn't matter if you have to go over it 10 times with the whacker, or even have to stand on it to get it down, but 10mm is not enough

Just wait a few months, than take it all up again (or at least the places which are low) then put new sand under and whack the hell out of it

get one with a rubber math under it, so you save your blocks from scratching

so do not put any sand over it just yet, otherwise you will not get them up easy


----------



## sploo

Mcluma":fp8cxyh9 said:


> there is where you went wrong 10mm is not enough, it should be a minimum of 1", it doesn't matter if you have to go over it 10 times with the whacker, or even have to stand on it to get it down, but 10mm is not enough


Steve said "_We aimed for 100mm from top of block to hardcore. The blocks are 65mm nominally so we laid 45mm sand to give us 10mm to whack down_". I'm assuming you've read it as 10mm sand? Or do you mean you need to aim for whacking the bricks down by at least 1"?


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## Steve Maskery

I meant 45mm sand plus 65mm block = 110mm, whackered down to 100mm.


----------



## Wizard9999

sploo":8ppwv03b said:


> Mcluma":8ppwv03b said:
> 
> 
> 
> there is where you went wrong 10mm is not enough, it should be a minimum of 1", it doesn't matter if you have to go over it 10 times with the whacker, or even have to stand on it to get it down, but 10mm is not enough
> 
> 
> 
> Steve said "_We aimed for 100mm from top of block to hardcore. The blocks are 65mm nominally so we laid 45mm sand to give us 10mm to whack down_". I'm assuming you've read it as 10mm sand? Or do you mean you need to aim for whacking the bricks down by at least 1"?
Click to expand...


Based on what Steve had said I had assumed the post meant that 10mm of whackering was not enough and that the blocks needed to be whackered down by an inch. Have to say that did sound a lot, but then I have never laid blocks. But I am thinking of doing my drive so am very interested in the answer.

Mcluma, can you clarify?

Terry.


----------



## cammy9r

Hi, please look through this website. It will tell you everything you need to know about pavements, concrete bases etc..
Start here, it is good, honest 

http://www.pavingexpert.com/bpvseq01.htm


----------



## lurker

Steve, 
I would not worry too much
If it settles then you might need to fix it here and there
The important thing is it now looks tidy and you are not taking muck into the house.

Even if you leave it months it's one of these jobs you can do in the winter, the urgent stuf is behind you now.
Turn your attention to something different in the workshop build job.


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## lurker

Can you post some photos of the w shop from the house back door with new patio in the foreground?


----------



## Steve Maskery

lurker":1duxa45p said:


> Turn your attention to something different in the workshop build job.



Yes indeed.
I've had the OK from the BCO to use Cempanel as the outside cladding, so I plan to order that this week. It's a proper external product, I can use ordinary exterior paint on it and it is a lot cheaper, nearly half the cost, of the Glasroc that he originally suggested.

The only downside is that it is jolly heavy. IIUIC, each 10mm sheet weighs about 37kg. I'm not sure I can manage that on my own, and Ray isn't coming for the next 2 weeks. I'll have to see if I can rope in someone else.

I must admit it is nice not treading sand all over the place.


----------



## Steve Maskery

lurker":gcy9p7nr said:


> Can you post some photos of the w shop from the house back door with new patio in the foreground?



Well not really. From the back door you don't really see the workshop at all, the log cabin is in the way.

Ok, Ok, I'll have a go


----------



## Steve Maskery

I did warn you.

The OSB was just put there to dry as I had to hose it down after all that brick dust and slurry.

That bonfire is indeed firewood, mainly. I'm going to build a store using this as my starting point:






which will be sited against the fence:






I wish I could get rid of that ivy, it's a menace. And when it flowers, it stinks too. Horrid stuff.

I have enough wood left over from the build, with some from the better pallets, to build the store, and enough tiles to put a good roof on it, too.


----------



## lurker

That's something I need.... A log store
It will look good against the fence and block out the background a bit.
I have been sawing logs this morning ...... It won't be long before we get evening chills and swimbo will want a fire lighting. :roll:


----------



## dickm

Steve Maskery":6e6i3qk5 said:


> [
> 
> I wish I could get rid of that ivy, it's a menace. And when it flowers, it stinks too. Horrid stuff.


But very good for bees and birds as source of pollen and berries respectively.


----------



## Mcluma

Steve,

on one of the photo's I can see that you're block paving is still sticking up above your edge, 

NOW get that whacker plate back out before we get more rain and you are getting puddles, -which will make it worse on your low spots

Otherwise you will have a whole lot more work later.

get you're long level out (2400mm) and see where you're high and low spots are


----------



## lurker

You must be a great source of varied entertainment for the neighbourhood 
:lol: 

What's he doing now Mildred?
Well his slave isn't there and he is ironing his keks in the garden.
And he is moaning about someone called Ivy


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've had a day of bits and pieces today and it's all been quite productive.

First of all I promised APreston a pic of the angle grinder jig I made.






The tool sits in the cradle and is bolted down using one of the holes in the machine designed for attaching the handle. The sliding table bit was going to have a fence screwed to it at 45 degrees. I've not actually tried it, because we hired the Big Bertha, but I think it would have worked fine, if being a bit dusty.

But on to today.

The log cabin is a bit of a step up, so I need a bit of help. I used some of the old decking to make it. The bearers increase in size by 5mm each, from left to right, to allow for the fall on the patio. I need to shorten the front a bit and put in a toe-board to make it prettier, but I want to try it out for a bit first. I think I have it a bit high at the mo. But it is certainly is a step in the right direction. Ha-ha. I've done something similar by my back door, too, but that is definitely temporary, I want a brick back step, but I can't do that until the blocks are sorted.











Then it was down to the workshop. Since moving the rest of the OSB out I could nearly get to the corner. So I took a piece of skirting and cut a bevel on the end.






Then it was a case of nibbling away to follow the resulting profile. Here I'm using the bandsaw, but it was a bit coarse, really and the second one I did with a coping saw.






The end result is a really neat scribe






I've also put up another couple of lengths of French cleat on the wall






Plus a trip to the tip with the patio rubble and best of all, I've done it all on my own without having to be chivvied along by Ray. That's the real progress.


----------



## lurker

And whilst maintaining an epitome of sartorial elegance :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

People who live in glass houses...


----------



## Mcluma

How is that Bosch axial slider behaving - still has happy with it as the day you both it ?

Looks like a nice machine

ps a little tip for the plastic strips is using a teflon hammer


----------



## Steve Maskery

Mcluma":23ork3qq said:


> How is that Bosch axial slider behaving - still has happy with it as the day you both it ?
> 
> Looks like a nice machine



It is brilliant. I was disappointed with the laser when I was using it outside, but inside it is clear. All nice and solid and reliable. I'm not surprised, as the 10" model I had before was also pretty flawless.



Mcluma":23ork3qq said:


> ps a little tip for the plastic strips is using a teflon hammer



Erm, I must be getting old or something...

?????

S


----------



## Tom K

PVC window unit retaining strips though I think you made wooden frames and are nailing trims on in the piccy!


----------



## Mcluma

Tom K":q39mrvdz said:


> PVC window unit retaining strips though I think you made wooden frames and are nailing trims on in the piccy!




ah,

i thought they are pvc units, 

because to get the glass beading strips into the pvc units, you use a teflon hammer

Thanks for the thumbs up on the Bosch


----------



## apreston

Thanks for posting the jig picture. I see you used your diamond strips idea for the sliding table - that's a really neat way of doing it, and looks like it makes for a very simple way of doing a sliding table. I would have done it with drawer sliders or some such over-complication. I shall have to borrow your idea next time.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I use the diamond keys in a lot of my jigs, pretty much anywhere that requires one part to slide over another. It keeps the two parts nicely aligned so that they slide without jamming. The biggest challenge is sizing them accurately. Too big and the two parts will not sits without rocking, too small and the two parts will rack. They have to be a Goldilocks fit. I use a drum sander to do that, but you could also do it by very careful hand-planing.

If I couple it with a slot and Bristol lever, I can lock the two parts together anywhere along their travel.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've spent the week trying to get a bit more organised inside.

I've hung a few more things up, like my axe and stepladders, bandsaw blades (I didn't realise I had quite so many)






installed some more french cleat (yes that piece is banana-shaped)






and a piece a bit lower than the rest for my notice board






I've rearranged the wall a bit too, swapping over the router table and tool cabinet which puts my tools closer to the bench.






I'm going to have to make some sort of storage for my drills. At the mo they are in one of the drawers, but I have to walk round the bench every time I want to change the drill. I need to house them right by the drill. Does anyone have any really neat drill bit storage solutions?

I do still have quite a lot of the jigs I had in my old workshop. Not all of them, but quite a lot. Some I can't remember what they do! But apart from the ones that were stored in a cupboard or seriously wrapped in cling-film, many are in a pretty sad state. Water-damaged, pigeon-pooped, bashed. So I've decided to remake them, using better quality MDF. So this morning I went off to buy some MRMDF

This is a jig for holding thin workpieces for planing. Well, it was once.






So with a bit of cutting and gluing and clamping






and screwing






I have a nice clean replacement






The workpiece is the light piece at the front. The scruffy piece towards the rear is just a packer. The workpiece is wedged in place and the harder I push, the tighter it gets. This jig will hold securely workpieces down to 6mm thick. Thinner, if I pack them out underneath.






I have three different-sized wedges, which are all stored on board. Here it is ready to hang.






The place would be an awful lot tidier if I had my log store. I could get rid of a ton of offcuts. But there is no point me starting to make that until the patio is sorted which is going to be late September at the earliest now. But it is a good feeling starting to make things again, even if it is just a few bits of MDF.


----------



## monkeybiter

In that first pic you look like a homicidal sushi chef!

Seriously though it's very good to see you using the workshop rather than being tormented by it. Nice clamping jig too.

Re. the diamond slide guide, I can't see any advantage over using a rectangular 'key' in a conventionally routed slot. They'd certainly be easier to make as the vertical dimension would be non critical [providing it was no greater than the gap in the upper and lower slots] also it would resist any twisting/racking without needing to keep any downward pressure on the sliding piece.


----------



## JakeS

monkeybiter":2p5kap6m said:


> Re. the diamond slide guide, I can't see any advantage over using a rectangular 'key' in a conventionally routed slot.



I don't know what Steve is thinking, but there are two advantages I can think of:

- The keys are more or less self-locating - if you lift one half off and then place it down again, it's much easier to find the keyways again. Not so frequent a benefit, since you'll probably put them together once and leave them, but if it is something you need to reassemble frequently, diamonds will be easier.

- Probably-more-relevantly, if you cut the keyways ever-so-slightly undersize, there's zero play. To get the same effect on a rectangular slot, you have to cut the slot absolutely precisely; with a diamond-shaped way, then you just have to be undersize - you have a much wider window before the gap between the top and bottom parts will start to introduce other problems. (Of course, if you have two keyways they still have to be cut precisely the same distance apart on both halves, but that's still an easier task than getting a rectangular slot/key precisely the right size.)


----------



## Steve Maskery

I couldn't have put it better myself, Jake, thank you.
And if you need two parallel ones like on my tenon jigs, that is easy to do on the RT and is why I think it is a good idea to have plenty of depth behind the cutter and not just in front of it. I reference of the same edge and they are guaranteed to be parallel.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":3mjgivhx said:


> and screwing


That's a still from one of those instructional safety videos that's followed a couple of seconds later with Yaaarrrghhh! B*ll*cks! I've just drilled into me leg! isn't it? :mrgreen:


----------



## Eric The Viking

Sploo, 

Fair guess, but I think you've been taken-in by the fiendish Maskery publicity machine again. 

It's obvious to me that he's photo-shopped it. In actual fact (as I can now reveal), he was having a sneaky Condor moment:




But I believe all the smoke helps to keep the MDF dust down, so it's probably a good thing on balance...


----------



## Zeddedhed

Eric The Viking":1dkv3ni9 said:


> Sploo,
> 
> Fair guess, but I think you've been taken-in by the fiendish Maskery publicity machine again.
> 
> It's obvious to me that he's photo-shopped it. In actual fact (as I can now reveal), he was having a sneaky Condor moment:
> 
> But I believe all the smoke helps to keep the MDF dust down, so it's probably a good thing on balance...



=D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## Steve Maskery

I appear to have Photoshopped out the busty woman chasing me, as well


----------



## NickWelford

Inner fantasies?


----------



## dc_ni

Steve Maskery":1myq4kwn said:


> I appear to have Photoshopped out the busty woman chasing me, as well



Does Ray know that's how you describe him? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

I realised half way through the afternoon that that was St Bruno.Just my luck to have a Condor moment rather than a St. Bruno one.


----------



## Glynne

That brings back memories - St Bruno, Condor, Gallaghers Flake and some of the "Girly" aromatics (to quote my Dad).
A very long time ago but it used to be fashionable to smoke a pipe.
I remember taking part in a clay pipe smoking competition at university in the early 70s, more to do with the ladies in mini skirts and knee length suede boots promoting tobacco than the tobacco itself but the memory has stuck.


----------



## RogerP

Glynne":1xwfmd3n said:


> .............
> A very long time ago but it used to be fashionable to smoke a pipe.
> .......


............I still do but only in my workshops.


----------



## Graham Orm

RogerP":1efcycm2 said:


> Glynne":1efcycm2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> .............
> A very long time ago but it used to be fashionable to smoke a pipe.
> .......
> 
> 
> 
> ............I still do but only in my workshops.
Click to expand...


Tried it once, had a go with my dad's when mum and dad had gone out, I was about 14 and showing off to a mate. I had to run for the bathroom and made it to the top of the stairs before throwing up.


----------



## Wizard9999

Glynne":db4vzxy1 said:


> A very long time ago but it used to be fashionable to smoke a pipe.



Having seen the resurgence of the proper manly beard it'll only take a couple of Hollywood types to be seen with one and everyone will be puffing on one again.


----------



## Slinger

Steve,
I've also got a drill bit storage problem, if you come up with the answer, let us know please.
Thanks,
Slinger


----------



## flying haggis

this any good







an off cut of twinwall/triple wall polycarbonate also makes a good holder


----------



## Steve Maskery

That looks like a good solution for the sort of collection you have there.
But I have my bits in various sets:
Metric jobber drills
Imperial jobber drills
Metric twin-lip & spur
Forstners

All are in sets, all in boxes or articulated cases. I don't want to ditch the containers because I often take them to the Community Workshop. So I suppose I want a set of drawers, so that the drills are close to Lulu, but easily put into my tool box when necessary.

I noticed in Aldi yesterday that they has some tool cabinets. Like the one I have only smaller. They were reduced from 130 to 100, give or take. But it still seems quite a lot to shell out. If they were half that I'd succumb.


----------



## flying haggis

do you mean something like this Steve?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/04-US-Pro-too ... 5423738822


----------



## Steve Maskery

I think that would be perfect. Pity it's not a BIN at that price.


----------



## marcros

i bought one of those. seem well made and good for the money. I had a look at the comparable ones in machine mart and halfords, and I think that these were better.


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## shipbadger

Steve,

I've now bought three roll cabs with top boxes from this firm. If you want to keep down the cost you should be aware that they always advertise some of their product at BIN prices and some as an auction. Patience often pays off with the auction. They appear to get delivery in batches (presumably a container full) and when new supplies arrive the first few auctions reach the higher prices (sometimes more than the BIN!) but subsequent ones are often cheaper. They also have damaged boxes at times which sell for much lower prices, the damage is often repairable for those with common sense. I've no connection with the seller but have always found their descriptions accurate; for example pointing out that their cabinets may have smaller castors than others of the same brand sold by others. 

And before anyone asks, ones in the garage, one has my model engineering tools and the others has the wetstone grinder on the base and the top sits at the end of the bench with chisels etc. in the drawers.

Tony Comber


----------



## Steve Maskery

That's really helpful, Tony, thank you. It could be an excellent solution, as, being portable, I wouldn't even have to re-pack them every time I went to the CW. I've put a couple on Watch to see what they actually end up selling for.


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## flying haggis

get one of these steve and just wheel it round to the community workshop and back(if you could push it when it was full of tools!!!!!)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/257-US-PRO-TO ... 5d588ffda8


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## focusonwood

I've just gone through this thread with interest. Loving the photos as you progress, and the workshop looks great.

I'm creating my own workshop at the moment, but as a small single garage you could probably fit it 10 times into yours!

I'm currently finishing off my workbench (I'm new to working with wood, so I'm learning as I go along). I might share a picture of my workshop and bench one day when it's presentable...it's not of the same scale, but I'm creating piles of shavings and sawdust all the same!


----------



## Steve Maskery

I have one of the original Festool 1010 routers. It's a very nice machine, as you might expect. At least, it is in many respects.

However.

The fence does not have a fine adjuster. You'd think that an expensive, top-of-the-range router like that would have one as standard. Actually, I believe that if you buy one today, the fence rods do have fine adjustment built in to them. And so they should. But mine doesn't.

Ever since I got it I have been thinking of making a fine adjuster for it, but I've never been able to locate my Round Tuit. Today I've routed a groove at exactly the wrong width and am livid with myself. So in a huff I searched high and low until I found my Round Tuit and made a fine adjuster.

Unfortunately I didn't take any photos. Yeah, yeah, I know, it never happened.

But here is a pic of the finished item






It's very simple, just a piece of wood. The various holes have to be drilled accurately and if you look closely you can see that there is a strip glued over the top face. That's because there are a couple of embedded nut (nice, thin, locking nuts, actually) underneath it.

The supplied, fence, conveniently, has an M6 tapped hole in it, which, inconveniently, does not align with a similar hole in the router base casting itself. I've never actually found out what either part is for, I suppose I should find the manual and read it.

Anyway, the upshot is that I can now adjust the fence very precisely. One turn of the Bristol lever is 1mm.

Happy Bunny. I just wish I'd made it this morning rather than this afternoon.

PS I also got to use my new Aldi Angle Grinder stand for the first time. Love it. Sparks everywhere, repeatabilty, quick, real man-cave stuff. And already I've started thinking of ways in which I can improve the base. The vice is - basic.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I also forgot to mention that I've also ordered the cement panel boards for the rest of the outside, it's arriving on Wednesday.


----------



## lurker

I don't understand how the Bristol lever fine adjusts
Maybe a photo from the top would clear it up 

I need something similar for my triton


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Jim
I've packed it away but I shall need to use it again tomorrow, so I'll take a pic for you then.

But basically the fine adjuster clamps on to the ends of the fence rods and doesn't move. The Bristol lever turns the M6 leadscrew, onto which is trapped the wooden block, between two washers and Nylox nuts. The nuts are adjusted so that there is no play but the leadscrew can still turn.

The original fence has an M6 hole in it, through which the leadscrew passes, so to adjust it, the FA stays clamped on the rods, the fence is slackened off, and as the leadscrew is turned, the fence moves up or down the fence rods, altering its distance from the cutter. Once adjusted, the fence is tightened up again.

Clear as mud on a dark foggy night?


----------



## Steve Maskery

lurker":1bfet4jr said:


> I need something similar for my triton



You were also on about making a kick-stop for your TS. Like mine. Are you secretly cloning my workshop?


----------



## lurker

I did make one. Works great

I'll Nick any good ideas I see anywhere.


----------



## Steve Maskery

You tart, you.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Here you go Jim:







You will remember that when I fitted the T-track to my new router table top I was a bit stingy with the length. This has been bugging me a bit, so I took advantage of Rutlands' sale and bought some T-track.

The problem was that when I fitted the first pair, I didn't just screw them in, I used Gripfill, too. That was a bit of a mistake, now that I wanted to pull them out. What to do? Well the first thing to do is to phone Eric the Viking Who Knows Everything, who told me that Xylene (which I don't have) dissolves Gripfill (and pretty much everything else it comes into contact with) and WD40 (which I do have), will soften it. Might be worth a try. Half and hour later it looked like this






That was yesterday and today, when the WD40 had dried off somewhat, it didn't look anywhere near as bad. Certainly not ruined.

I had thought that it would be pretty much impossible just to extend the groove at exactly the same width, I was expecting to have to use the wider mitre track, but now that I have my nice new fine adjuster I could get it right to the nearest nanometre.
















I do like it when I get it right.

I also want a mitre track along the front, so that I can make my finger-joint jig again. 

The corners of my RT top are rounded and there is the danger of the router fence slipping at the end, so I fitted a longer piece to the fence, so that I could exert pressure in the appropriate way to avoid that.






And so I think it really is finished






The rise and fall mechanism is built in to the router, and I use a socket in my cordless drill for quick up and down. For more precise adjustment I had been using a socket on the end of a hand-held shaft, like a screwdriver. Unfortunately, the other day, the handle, which is a very brittle plastic, broke and I was left with just the metal shaft. So today I cut that down, put an M6 thread on the end and fitted a Bristol lever.











All I need now is to make a dial to show the change in height. I believe that one full turn is 1.5mm, so 240 degrees of arc is 1mm. My previous one was a 1/16" pitch and I had one for that. It translated as 0.1mm = 27 degrees, IIRC. This one will be 0.1mm = 24 degrees. It's easy enough to do with Sketchup and the Bristol lever acts as a pointer as well as a handle.


----------



## lurker

Thanks I see how it works now. :idea:


----------



## DennisCA

When it comes to routers, I splurged on the Bosch GMF 1600 CE. I have a hard seeing Festool topping it, with the replaceable bases it can go from a fixed to plunge base router in an instant. And the round motor part is easy to mount in homemade machines or lifts. The fixed base also works well as a router lift for a table, and can be adjusted above the table.


----------



## bertikus_maximus

Steve,

Been having a look through some the beginning again today (I'm a bit bored at work on a slow Friday and wanted to remind myself of your odyssey!). Wow - what a journey. I don't post very often but I wanted to say if you haven't flicked through from page 1 recently, I'd recommend it. I know at times you've hit your limit and felt a bit fed up with it but I think seeing the progress from a derelict shack to a well built workshop should feel very rewarding.

Keep up the good work!

(hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you Bert. Yes indeed I have felt very fed up about it, it was a ridiculous thing to do, but, well, you know. 
But yes, also, I am enjoying getting the workshop straight. I've spent the last week or so making a drill press table, like my own, for the Community Workshop






I've got the geometry a bit better on this one, on mine the Bristol levers are a bit close together at the back.

This morning I've been out removing the last of the shiplap off the back wall ready for the Cempanel. This should have been coming this week, but Ray could not come on Wednesday and so I've postponed delivery for a bit. I'm not going to attempt to carry 37kg down the garden on my own. What do you think my name is, Doug B?


----------



## Knoxonwood

Take some advice on insulating the metal roof. I've had one previously and it dripped water from the build up of condensation.
Regards
Ewan


----------



## nabs

Hello Steve,

I imagine I am one of a large number of people who have stumbled accross your excellent mega-thread and read it all from start to finish. It took days to read it all, but it was not a chore as the whole thing is very entertaining and informative. Thanks in particular for the info on the "square of thales" and all things jig related - I am a woodworking dunderhead so these tidbits are great.

I do have a question related to the current stage of your workshop - namely cladding. I just finished a much smaller building in my garden which I am gradually trying to convert into a (tiny) workshop. Unlike you I did not need comply with building control because I am away from the boundary and i am not planning on sleeping there, so I was able to use wood cladding, but since I was using cedar I could only afford to do the two sides visible from the house. 

For the back and side I agonised for weeks on what would be a suitable cheap alternative, and eventually gave up and decided to use the same Fermacell boards I was using inside.

my heart sank therefore when I read the advice you got about avoiding gyproc (another gypsum based board) since I have always been worried about how well mine would take the weather, particularly near the ground where water splashes back. Up until now I have been dealing with the problem by studiously avoiding any inspection of the boards, but I am not inspired to take a closer look and see how they have faired after a couple of winters. I will pop out later today post a pic if anyone is interested.

Anyhow, I am very interested to hear how you get on with the Cempanel (which I had not come across, but they look just the ticket) - would you mind sharing how much they cost and where you ordered them?

cheers

nick


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi nick
I've bought 31 boards from FGF in Birmingham at 13 +vat, 10m thick.


----------



## flying haggis

Steve Maskery":22vv2cvi said:


> Hi nick
> I've bought 31 boards from FGF in Birmingham at 13 +vat, 10m thick.



10m thick???????? they are going to take more than you and ray to shift and fix :lol:


----------



## nabs

Steve Maskery":3go0uf41 said:


> Hi nick
> I've bought 31 boards from FGF in Birmingham at 13 +vat, 10m thick.


argh! it is cheaper than Fermacell too - oh well. I did have a root around the base of my shed looking for evidence of water damage and took a photo of the boards, unfortunately it seems I can't include a picture until I have made at least 3 posts. I am afraid those of you looking forward to seeing the results will have to contain your excitement until I can find another topic to comment on! 

Nick


----------



## NickWelford

You can, of course, post some inane nonsense. There's a lot of that in various posts......


----------



## CHJ

nabs":384i7yuy said:


> ......... unfortunately it seems I can't include a picture until I have made at least 3 posts. ....



There are no post restrictions regarding uploads to the UKW server other than maximum file size.

Details are in the posting guide at the top of the forum.


----------



## nabs

thank you - I must have been doing something wrong. I will try again now.


----------



## nabs

I took a look at the external fermacell boards and I think I would classify the result as 'could have been worse'. This is what they looked like when I put them up: http://buildyourowngardenroom.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/9-fermacell-cladding.html. 

Here is one of the corners - this corner has the down-pipe next to it and one of the things I keep meaning to do is get a water butt to take the rain from the roof, but for the last 18 months it has just discharged straight to the ground which will have resulted in a lot of splash back. So I suppose this is the worst case situation:




It is unsurprisingly dirty, from water splashing back from the surrounding soil, but the boards are still firm at the base and do not appear to have absorbed water or expanded. Some paint has come away from the corner and it is crumbling slightly although I suppose this might be the result of it having been knocked. So all in all, not a disaster by any means although I do wonder how it will fare after a few years. I might dig a trench underneath the boards and fill it with gravel to try and reduce the splash back...


----------



## cammy9r

where has steve gone, no updates for a while.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Just spoke to him -- he's returning from a brief holiday.

I'll leave him to say what he wants to about it, but I gather he had a great time, and to me it seems a very well-earned break!


----------



## dc_ni

I agree Eric, he's definitely earned a holiday.


----------



## AES

I think it's absolutely disgusting, him skiving off on holiday and depriving the rest of us of our regular workshop wip fix!

:lol: 

Seriously, when you get to read this, welcome back Steve.

AES


----------



## flying haggis

AES":2ix6thky said:


> I think it's absolutely disgusting, him skiving off on holiday and depriving the rest of us of our regular workshop wip fix!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Seriously, when you get to read this, welcome back Steve.
> 
> AES



+1


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## Steve Maskery

Good evening, gentlemen.
I'm going to bed.


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## Penny

Steve Maskery":3rte90l2 said:


> Good evening, gentlemen.
> I'm going to bed.




And ladies, if you please!


----------



## monkeybiter

No holiday without pics!


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## Steve Maskery

Well I know that other people's holiday photos are dead boring, but you did ask.... Well, Monkeybiter did, anyway.

I've been friends with Dave Richards, of Sketchup fame, for quite a few years now. Probably a decade. We chat on Skype every Sunday. It started as a shared interest in wookwork and SU, but we found we had lots of other things in common, too. We always say "When you come over, we'll do this", and "When you come over, we'll do that", and "When you come over, we'll do the other". A couple of years ago, Dave was going to come to the UK for a training course, and we sort of got used to the idea that we would meet up. But it fell though.

Last summer we were having one of our "When you come over, we'll do this" conversations, and I pointed out that as neither of us was getting any younger and it was no use waiting until we were hanging on to zimmers, that if we were going to do it, we should do it.

Then I figured that if I was going to fly over New York, I should jump off for a few days and take a look. I've not had a holiday since the domestic balloon went up six years ago, so my mate Bob and I went to the Big Apple, where we saw this







and that






and the other






then he came home and I went on to Dave where I was made very welcome indeed. Though it did not start well. I'd bought a very nice bottle of Bowmore, but travelling domestically it had to go in my checked luggage. Despite being in a box, it did not survive and I pulled a suitcase off the carousel which smelled divinely peaty but was rather soggier than I had hoped for. So our first conversation was along the lines of

"Hello, you must be Steve"
"Hello, you must be Dave, can I use your washing machine, please?"

So I then spent the happiest week I can remember, eating the best steak I've ever had, making fish pie and bread and butter pudding (we drove for an hour to get smoked haddock, what sort of country is this?) and pretending to be Captain Birdseye. Or Pugwash, not sure which.
















I also bought up Rockler






We even did a bit of woodwork together.

So despite a 30-odd hour journey home I feel better than I have done for years. Long may it continue. Thank you Dave.






I have Ray and CemPanel coming on Wednesday.


----------



## dc_ni

Welcome back Steve, glad you had a great holiday. It's well deserved.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

30 hour journey home? Did you go via Auckland?


----------



## marcros

where is Dave based?


----------



## Harbo

Nice trip - I wish we had a Rockler and Lee Valley shop(s) over here! 

Rod


----------



## xy mosian

Steve, I had the great pleasure of a telephone conversation with Dave some time ago, that along with a few emails, would have me put money on your having a good time. I am very pleased that you made the effort, pre-zimmer as you put it, and that you seem to have come home re juveinated.
xy


----------



## Racers

Glad you had a good time Steve.

Pete


----------



## AES

Welcome back Steve. Glad you had a good time and hope you today/yesterday with a renewed feeling of "GREAT"!

Krgds
AES


----------



## moosepig

Wow - what an inspiring thread! Simply amazing.

I'd love to have room for the sort of shop you're building there, Steve - ironically I originally spotted this thread while searching for ways to work efficiently in a small workshop (my shed is only 10 feet by 8 feet on the outside!)


----------



## UrbanSpaceman

I follow this thread with interest, and it's fantastic to know you're re-energised by this trip!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you all, it's much appreciated.

Ray arrived this morning, but when I rang about delivery time I was told it would not be until this afternoon. It turned up at 1.20, but it still meant that we had lost the morning. The driver had to drop it all on the road though, as he had just a fork-lift rather than a Hi-Ab.
















We had to stop the traffic for a bit and a few people turned round and went another way. I don't think I was very popular.

We carried them to the patio. I'm glad I didn't buy the 12mm stuff, this 10mm was quite heavy enough. Not unmanageable, but quite enough. The very bottom one was damaged a bit, one corner had broken off, about 6"x4". I'm not sure if that matters. I've told the supplier and his reply was "How would you like us to make it right?", so I can't fault that. It may be that we can lose it at a corner somewhere, we'll see.

Our first impressions were that it is both ugly and stinky. But it is very smooth and it is easy to mark out on. Rather than measuring out each one, I made a storypole for the hole positions. The screws have to be 150mm apart around the edge and the boards have to be pre-drilled, so that is a lot of drilling. 
















The screws I have are supposed to be self-countersinking, but TBH it is a bit hit-and-miss, and it is easy to damage the area around the hole, or be left with the screw a bit proud. I think we are going to have to pre-countersink every single hole 

So we put up a bit more lath to support the edges of the boards. Of course, we have a bit of a problem, it's that old chestnut the 8ft/2.4m conflict. The laths have to be set for 2.4m, so it doesn't take long to get out of sync with the main studs. So in some places we have only the OSB to fix to. So we are using 50mm screws for the CemPanel, so that at least the panel, lath and OSB are all screwed together.






We managed to cock up when we installed the downspout, we forgot to allow for the thickness of the cladding and corner strip. We can't alter the position of the pipe without digging up the blockwork, so I'm not quite sure what we are going to do there. Anything will be a bodge. Anyway, to get a screwdriver to the front edge of the board we decided that the best way would be to lift the pipe out of the ground fix and replace.






So by half past four we had got our first panel in place. I rather hope we get faster at it, one down (or up, I suppose) only another 30 to go.

More tomorrow.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

I've not been following for a while but I'm guessing this is what the building inspector has required you to install to maintain the appropriate fire security on the neighbour side? What's it called Cempanel? I'm assuming its a cement based product, hence fire safe?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Correct, Bob. Class 0 spread of flame, 30 minutes fire resistance. Actually I think this is 1 hour, but I need only 30 mins.
It's a mixture of wood fibre and cement.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Nice...was that expensive Steve? I've used cement board inside my showers of the house I'm in now but it wasn't the same as that.


----------



## Steve Maskery

It was 13+vat per sheet, plus 40 delivery because I don't have my own fork-lift!


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

not bad at all then.


----------



## Graham Orm

Glad you enjoyed a wonderful diversion to America Steve. Although I don't comment a lot I always read through and update myself when I log on.
The determination and drive required to complete the shop and the work on the garden cannot be over stated. For someone who suffers with depression you have done wonders and are a great example to all. We've witnessed your 'down moments' and all probably quietly wondered will this be the end of the build? But you've always bounced back. You should always remember that and lean on those thoughts when the 'down moments' arrive again. 
Now come on, get out and get some nice oak or walnut and get making. Finish the story with some nice furniture.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

or a nice jig


----------



## dc_ni

Or a nice jig to be used making some nice furniture (hammer) (hammer)


----------



## Steve Maskery

I didn't sleep well last night, so when Ray arrived, a bit early, I wasn't dressed. Fortunately I had already been down to the workshop and put the drill and nailer on charge, so I wasn't in too bad books.

It had taken so long yesterday, just to get one board up, that we had a think about how best to speed things up.

The first thing was to set up some trestles so that we were not bent double, and then we figured that we could drill several at once.







So we put them up, but kept back the bottom one. We leant that up against the gate, put another three on the trestles, then replaced the gate one to use as a template. The only thing we had to change on each one was the placement of the holes for the centre areas, as they had to line up with the existing laths, which got progressively out of sync.

The last one was cut a tad over-width, offered up and scribed to the back edge of the wall.






We also managed one board on the LH wall before we quit, but the day was marred by us finding my camera lying on the ground. I'd parked it out of the way and neither Ray not I have any recollection of bumping it, but it has been a bit breezy today so I assume it was a gust of wind. I don't have another explanation. My heart sank when I saw the crack across the front, but on closer examination it was just the UV filter. That had taken the brunt of the fall was cracked and the edge a bit bent. I couldn't screw it, so I made a panic call to Eric the Viking Who Knows Everything, who suggested and elastic band. Well I found an EB but it didn't shift it. I gave it to Ray, who simply said I wasn't trying hard enough. I must have loosened it for him.

Anyway, despite the damage






there appears to be only the slightest graze to the camera itself, and it appears to work normally. I've fitted a UV filter only quite recently, on the advice of Dave Richards, so I'm just relieved that it wasn't worse. You bet I'll replace that filter ASAP. (You bet - Minnesotan - see what I did there?) 

And on the subject of cameras, I've started to look again at what my options are for a new camcorder. I have a couple of things I want to make YT shorts for, and my old camera is only SD, when everything in the world now is HD. I was always very happy with my Panasonic, so I am inclined to go for the X920, but my main gripe is that it does not have a trad IR remote control. Filming myself, a zapper is very useful. Yes I know the camera can be controlled with an app, but I don't have a tablet and don't really want to have to buy one. OTOH, a tablet would allow me to monitor the output without having another cable about the place, so that bit is quite appealing.

The alternative is the Canon Legria 25, which does not enjoy quite such a high reputation, but a perfectly decent one nonetheless, and does come with a zapper.

Decisions, decisions.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Hi steve, glad you enjoyed your break.

What's the plan with the cempanel joints? Is there a cover strip or something else that goes over the top?


----------



## Brentingby

Steve Maskery":19jwjgdv said:


> You bet I'll replace that filter ASAP. (You bet - Minnesotan - see what I did there?)


----------



## Steve Maskery

mindthatwhatouch":krzd7gau said:


> What's the plan with the cempanel joints? Is there a cover strip or something else that goes over the top?



Good q. I think I have a lot of caulking to do. The surface is very smooth but horribly patchy and generally ugly. I've asked for clarification from Kevin the BCO that I can actually paint this stuff with Sandtex or something similar. I got an auto OOO reply, so we'll see what he says on his return. If TWCTTW, I can always go back to my original idea of Snowcem, as that is cement based.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":ymxxmczm said:


> The alternative is the Canon Legria 25, which does not enjoy quite such a high reputation, but a perfectly decent one nonetheless, and does come with a zapper.
> 
> Decisions, decisions.



Moderately priced Canon DSLR with a Rode shotgun mic, and running Magic Lantern?


----------



## Wizard9999

Thank god it was only the camera, when I read the title I thought I was about to read of the whole stack of cempanels smashed to pieces!

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray wanted me to get some help with the Cempanels this weekend, but it was a bit short notice to ask all the usual suspects, really.

Instead, I decided to tackle the shutters.

I'm making them really, not so much for security or insulation, but to make filming and photography easier. Some of my photographs have come out funny-coloured, and it's because I have a mixture of natural daylight from the windows and fluorescent lights. The camera can compensate for one or the other, but struggles with both. I could put up all sorts of filters, over the window or over the tubes, but it's easier just to block out the sunlight

So this morning I went and bought some 6x1 and set to.

There was some ripping






some crosscutting






and some dominoing. My spell-checker thinks that that is not a real word.






I'd chosen what size I wanted using my waggleometer. That is definitely a word, because I invented it. I can see at a glance what the mortice will look like WRT my workpiece, as well as how two adjacent mortices would relate if I used the pins






I decided to use 8mm dominoes, set up my machine and proceeded to cut thirty-two 6mm mortices. silly person. So I did them all again at 8mm. At least it wasn't the other way around.

I ripped some timber, thicknessed it, then used my new Rockler roundover bit to round the edges to make a couple of lengths of domino stock






I glued up the frames and checked for both square and wind






I have a load of shiplap left over, so I ripped off the field and re-machined a tongue and chamfer, to make a T&G board. I used to have a stackable grooving set, which would have halved the time, but instead I had to make do with a standard rebate cutter and V-bit in three stages. The end result was good, though






I've made the frames as rectangles, but now I rather wish I'd made them as double-H, or like a ladder, as I am going to have to faff about with backing strips to take the strap-hinge screws.

Still, no other major cock-ups, I must be getting better.


----------



## Steve Maskery

This morning I started to attach the boards to the frames.

I painted the tongue as each board went in, so that if and when the boards shrink, I don't get a white line appear when fresh wood is exposed.






I would have preferred it if 7 boards covered the required width, because an odd number looks better than an even one, but 7 came about 10mm too shy. So there are eight boards per shutter. The two outside ones will be ripped down to fit.

I attached them with my Rapesco nailer. 






I don't use it very often, and every time I do I remember why I don't use it. It is, by a country mile, the single most awfully useless tool I have ever had the poor judgement to spend my money on. It is a dreadful piece of junk. It should be easy, shouldn't it? Press the head, pull the trigger, job done. We know how to make tools that do that. So why are a few perfect and others, the vast majority, like this:






The nails are not fully home, yet the firing pin mars the wood. Some nails are bent. Sometimes it doesn't fire a nail, just the firing pin, even though there are nails in the magazine. What's the point of having an automatic nailer if you have to spend ages going round setting the nails and making good with caulk? It is an abomination. I think they rebranded as Tacwise.

Anyway they have had a coat of paint on the front. I was hoping to do the backs as well this evening, but it already 7.40 and I haven't eaten yet - moules marinière calls.


----------



## JakeS

Steve Maskery":1cxv4e57 said:


> What's the point of having an automatic nailer if you have to spend ages going round setting the nails and making good with caulk? It is an abomination. I think they rebranded as Tacwise.



FWIW: I have a Tacwise electric nailer (it was cheap and I only need one for attaching the backs of cabinet boxes, so I could afford the risk) and it can do both of the things you describe if you're not careful with it... but once you get used to it, it's quite possible to make it push nails right the way in without marring the surface as well.

I've never used an air-driven gun or an expensive electric one, but the Tacwise model nailer/stapler at least is just a matter of practice.


----------



## Sporky McGuffin

I have one of those Rapesco ones; my experience and exasperation with it are similar!


----------



## AES

I too have had similar experiences with this type of tool as Steve describes. I wanted somewhat lighter stuff (staples mainly) and 1st off bought a cheapo hand stapler (a bit like a big office unit). It was useless - or put it this way, I could never get it to drive more than about 1 staple in 100 to full depth and without mangling the staple. So I bought a much better-looking n more expensive tool, also a hand unit. Exactly the same result as above.

So I bought a B&D electric unit which should drive small nails too. Not exactly cheap, but clearly not top of the line. Slightly better than the above 2, but pretty much the same results as the above in the main.

In frustration I then bought a Lidl or Aldi air driven unit a while back. Works fine without any of the above problems. The only problem is the compressor, which makes so much noise in the cellar it's like standing beside the runway when Concord is taking off, so I use it only very occasionally.

AES


----------



## Graham Orm

I had 2 tried Tacwise nailers in close succession. The first was so poor, that the supplier and I agreed it must be faulty. I got a full refund in the end as they quite simply weren't good for purpose. The same problems that you describe Steve. Infuriating. I now have a Senco which is faultless. I've used and abused it for about 3 years on site and it never misses a beat. I've also recently replaced my workshop compressor after a long period without one, and have been using the air nailer again for the first time in a couple of years. I'd forgotten just how good it was.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Measuring from the centre, I trimmed the shutters to size including cutting a 30° bevel across the bottom, to prevent any water wicking up.They are not all exactly the same width, it varies 8mm or so, but the apertures are not too bad for square. Pete, this is your № 7 being put to good use. It is a beauty to use and a very worthy successor to my Dad's № 8. Thank you.






The screws I have for this are bright, but I want black, so I poked them through a piece of cardboard and sprayed them






I then used them to attach the strap hinges, 6" up from the bottom, 4.5" down from the top






So the first one went up no problem






and a cabin hook fitted to keep it open. Screwfix had 1, one, in stock. I have to go back tomorrow for the others.






I've painted all four, but I can't fit the other three because some silly person has stacked a load of wood below the windows.


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## Shultzy

How are you locking these shut as a security precaution? I used coach bolts and wing nuts (Page 5, workshop thread) as they are on the inside and are tamper-proof.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Steve
I'm not. I was going to use some star bolts, and Lurker was kind enough to give me some, but there is a rebate which makes that very difficult to fit. So I shall just make some large turnbuttons to keep them closed. These are not really for security, they are for light control.

I am considering drilling a hole in them. Why? Well a couple of times I've forgotten to turn the lights out, and it's not obvious until it gets dark. Then it is obvious because the windows shine. So a small porthole would alert me to that.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve don't you think, as you've gone to all the trouble of making them it would be worthwhile to make them locking as well? If you didn't and some scrote got in through the windows you'd be kicking yourself.

The peep hole is a good idea, I considered connecting a small outside light to my internal lights for the same reason, but haven't yet got round to it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The windows don't open, it's security glass, there are sensors. By the time they get in the place will be screaming anyway, both in the workshop and in my house.


----------



## Graham Orm

Fair comment Steve. But there's always the deterrent value.


----------



## Shultzy

Steve, I can't remember if you put an emergency light in your system. I have and am I glad as last week the lights fused while I was using the CS and the emergency light came on, Phew!!


----------



## Steve Maskery

No I haven't, but it's a good idea.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ray was late today and I had to go to Screwfix to pick up some stuff I ordered but were not in stock. What a surprise. So we didn't really get going until about 11.

Although we had made a start on the LH side we decided to get the back done. So Ray set up the scaffolding whilst I went shopping.

We are arranging the back, which is quite difficult to photograph, unfortunately, with a ground-level row of vertical boards with a top level row of 2.4 x 600mm boards laid horizontally. So there was some sheet-cutting to do.












We then carried on as before, fixing up roof laths and screwing up the boards. To avoid any sealed air pockets, we cut a few ventilation grooves. Actually I did them but here Ray is posing.






I've also had a go at caulking the joints on the RH wall, but it is as ugly as sin. Ray reckons that grouting will be more successful. So I've returned the remaining caulk and bought some grout. It's expensive and I would have been much better off going to Wickes. So I think there is some running about to do and making a nuisance of myself.

Ray is coming again tomorrow, as is my friend Akram, who is back in the UK for a few days. He's a snappy dresser (he's back in the UK from working in Saudi to renew some paperwork and buy a few suits. I hope he turns up in some scruffs so he can work, but I'm not betting on it, I am much more expectant of him turning up just in time for dinner).

Ray and I have renamed CemPanel as VariWeight Cempanel. It definitely gets heavier as the day progresses.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":7k8zyd4n said:


> Ray was late today



I really don't know why you bother with him :wink: 

Must be nearly there now, any ideas for your first non-jig/construction project?


----------



## Steve Maskery

That is a VGQ.

I have a coffee table top that I started in the community workshop over a year ago. I want to get that made. Then it's a case of basic stuff like a bed, wardrobe, dining table chairs etc. All the stuff I made before and lost, but I get the chance to do it all again, only better! Now that's what I call an opportunity.


----------



## monkeybiter

Steve Maskery":1j9jvo93 said:


> but I get the chance to do it all again, only better! Now that's what I call an opportunity.



Quick, write down that wisdom to light the darker days, and never doubt it.


----------



## wcndave

For a camera I am considering the Canon legria 30. Seems to be a vast improvement on the 25

Sent from my GT-I9301I using Tapatalk


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## Steve Maskery

I was at the builder's merchants this morning just after 8 to get more laths. I can't believe how many we are getting through. It's mainly because we are having to double up at the joints, and all the existing ones are in slightly the wrong place. If they came off easily it would save us a lot of wood, but once those nails are in, they don't want to come out again.

Ah, yes, nails. Hmm. More about that in a bit.

So more cutting and screwing and the back is finished, as is the ground-level row on both sides now.











There was an odd piece to fit at the end of each wall, but somewhat miraculously one sheet filled both areas, perfectly. There was just enough to overhang by an inch or two so that we could trim it flush with the adjacent wall. 






They are not all flush with each other, though, we had a very noticeable step a couple of times and couldn't understand why, as the edges were sitting on the same piece of wood. It turns out that 10mm Cempanels are not all 10.0mm thick. Anything from 9.4 to 10.8. Really. Heigh ho.

But nails. Harrummmmppphhhh.

I have loads of 90mm Paslode nails, but not enough 62mm ones. No problem, I have my angle-grinder on my Aldi stand, jut nip them down a bit and I don't have to go out and buy more.

So that's what I did, and it worked a treat. Then I saw that there were little black circles on the wall behind where I was working. That's pretty, I thought, and carried on. The grindings were obviously getting magnetised and sticking to the screws under the plaster.

Unfortunately my Festool battery charger was also behind where I was working, and when Ray went to plug in a dead battery, there was a flash and that was that. Well it blew the fuse of the charger, but when we replaced that it still didn't work. When we opened it up there was a thin layer of iron filings over the circuit board. They'd got in through the vents and stuck themselves to the metal on the board.

So I've saved a few bob on nails and knackered my Festool charger.. Fortunately I have a mate who is an electronics engineer and fixes PAs, TVs and the like, so I'm going to get him to have a look at it. I hope it's fixable 

The other unfortunate episode toady concerns a neighbour. When we went out to the road this afternoon, there were a couple of police officers standing about in front of a house a couple of doors down. My NDB1 neighbour had called them, because someone had thrown bricks through both front windows. It turns out that his son has been a bit naughty with a young lady who was already betrothed...

I love this neighbourhood. Not. Just think if there had been a baby in a pram under the window. Some people are just unspeakable.

Ray is on hols next week, but I have lots I can be getting on with. All the joints have to be grouted, I can install the soffit at the back and then paint the back wall.

I was expecting Akram for dinner this evening. Just had a text to say he can't come. So I have dinner for two here. At least it made me hoover up and clean the bathroom.


----------



## Steve Maskery

All the cempanel joints have to be grouted. I did start to use an exterior caulk, but it was very difficult to get it looking nice. I'm using tile grout. Mixing it is a bit of a pain, as I'm using a cut-down milk bottle, which is rectangular in section. The handle makes it easy to hold, but the mixing is clunky. Plus, this stuff doesn't have a very long working time, so I'm having to mix little and often and it's difficult to mix new grout in a container that has grout that's going off already in it. Anybody got any good tips?

I soon got fed up of that and I wanted to do a bit of woodwork, so I turned my attention back to the shutters. This was probably a mistake, as I really ought to be making the most of the decent weather, but never mind.

I've already mentioned about leaving the lights on a couple of times and I did it again the other day, so I've decided to cut a hole in the shutters. It may not stop me leaving the lights on, but at least I'll be able to see when I look out of the landing window. There is a joint line down the centre. Had it been a centre board I would probably have just drilled a hole, but instead I decided to cut a diamond.

It would have been a lot easier to have cut these before I nailed the boards onto the frame, but I didn't, so I had to retro-fit them, as it were. I made a template out of OSB and fitted a bush to my router. MDF would have been better, this was a bit rough to move the router over.











I cleaned out the corners with a chisel











Once on I think I like them. They do look a bit Snow White's Cottage, a bit twee perhaps, but they do the job. I haven't decided what colour to paint that turnbutton yet. Black to match the hinges? White to match the trim? Blue to match the shutters, or grey to match the wall? I think I'll just paint it pink and orange and be done with it.






It doesn't look quite so good if I zoom out. I've not fitted the last one as something is miles out of plumb. I have a 10mm gap to sort out at the TL corner. The window frame is OK and the shutter is OK, but the trim on the left of the frame is not OK. I think I'm going to have to rip it off and replace it with a tapered piece to get the inside edge vertical. 






But not today.


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Very French Steve. I think they look marvellous, a real bit of style. To me the turnbutton should be black so all the door furniture matches.


----------



## lurker

Those diamonds really add something. As Bob says, black.


----------



## John15

Definitely black

John


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thanks guys. I think you may be right, black. The pink/orange idea was a joke, but now I've been thinking about it for a bit...


----------



## Eric The Viking

I'd go with white or blue, personally, because of the risk of making nasty marks when you rotate the thing.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Eric The Viking":33ntz0pp said:


> I'd go with white or blue, personally, because of the risk of making nasty marks when you rotate the thing.



Ah, I've thought about that. There is a washer behind the turnbutton. I'm not as daft as I look, you know. Not quite.


----------



## Eric The Viking

But nobody could be that...


----------



## Wizard9999

Another vote for black Steve.

The shutters look great, with the diamonds looking like a pair of eyes and the turn button a mouth (maybe if you did go with pink it would make it clear the shutters are a woman's face).

One thing that crossed my mind, a bit off topic, but thout I'd ask anyway. Unlike most people's posts, even when you are on your own you go to the trouble of taking action shots of you working, rather than just showing a set up and end result. How much time does it add to what you are doing to do this? It may be that you have it down to a fine art and it doesn't take much time at all, if I tried to do that it would add hours as I'd probably have to do it three or four times to get it right.

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Taking the pictures does not take very long. My camera is permanently on a tripod and I usually use P or iA mode, so there is not much setting up to do. I've been doing it long enough to know what I want to show, so I don't agonise over that.

I do have problems with white balance though, hence the reasonn for making the shutters. Also I often have problems with the exposure, especially if the doorway is in the background. I frame the picture, the camera sees the bright opening and does its calcs. I press the button and stand in front, blocking the light. So it sometimes ends up too dark.

The longer time is spent at the computer. I have to create a new folder for the day, transfer the files, open them, discard any that are not what I want, crop each one, tweak the exposure, white balance or shadows and highlights, then reduce it to fit in a forum post. That definitely takes longer than taking the picture.


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## williams1185

hi steve your workshop looks amazing my tip for mixing grout is to mix it in a margarine tub and use a flat scraper to mix it its easy to clean out and use again . cheers ian


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## Zeddedhed

Steve, regarding the 'photos - not sure if you're on a Mac or PC, but if on a Mac there's a little App called Resize sense which can do batch resizing. Presets can be set up for both the size, naming and locations.

As for the white balance and exposure you can achieve similar results by creating actions in Photoshop.
According to a photographer I know it's possible to create an action for exposure control, white balance, contrast etc all based on RELATIVE settings so you don't need to worry about an individual photo being wildly different.

I'm sure that there's loads of info online - but then you may already know all of this.


----------



## Steve Maskery

williams1185":1v7idqq6 said:


> hi steve your workshop looks amazing my tip for mixing grout is to mix it in a margarine tub and use a flat scraper to mix it its easy to clean out and use again . cheers ian



And a quick rummage in the recycling bin reveals... a margarine tub. Thanks very much, good idea, I'll give it a go.


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## n0legs

Head down buttocks up get the grouting/jointing done. Get the building signed off. Relieve the stress, start the enjoyment.

Nice job on the shutters by the way


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## Steve Maskery

Zeddedhed":2rgxlc4q said:


> Steve, regarding the 'photos - not sure if you're on a Mac or PC, but if on a Mac there's a little App called Resize sense which can do batch resizing. Presets can be set up for both the size, naming and locations.
> 
> As for the white balance and exposure you can achieve similar results by creating actions in Photoshop.
> According to a photographer I know it's possible to create an action for exposure control, white balance, contrast etc all based on RELATIVE settings so you don't need to worry about an individual photo being wildly different.
> 
> I'm sure that there's loads of info online - but then you may already know all of this.



Ah, thanks, I'll take a look. I have both Mac and PC. My Mac is a glorified email and web browser, I use Paint Shop Pro on my venerable2004 PC for anything fancy, but the normal editing is done in Preview on the Mac.


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## sploo

Steve Maskery":1hztd8zt said:


> Zeddedhed":1hztd8zt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve, regarding the 'photos - not sure if you're on a Mac or PC, but if on a Mac there's a little App called Resize sense which can do batch resizing. Presets can be set up for both the size, naming and locations.
> 
> As for the white balance and exposure you can achieve similar results by creating actions in Photoshop.
> According to a photographer I know it's possible to create an action for exposure control, white balance, contrast etc all based on RELATIVE settings so you don't need to worry about an individual photo being wildly different.
> 
> I'm sure that there's loads of info online - but then you may already know all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, thanks, I'll take a look. I have both Mac and PC. My Mac is a glorified email and web browser, I use Paint Shop Pro on my venerable2004 PC for anything fancy, but the normal editing is done in Preview on the Mac.
Click to expand...

Steve, once you've got the shutters set up you'll obviously have very consistent light in the workshop. From there it'd probably make sense to set the camera up with a manual exposure; that way every shot is consistent.

If you can shoot raw (and import into something like Lightroom) you'll find it's really easy to sort through images and you also get plenty of latitude for adjustments. White balance becomes a non issue because it's just processing that happens with a JPEG; if you have the raw it's just metadata and you could change it to anything you want (obviously in a consistent lighting environment with manual settings you'll probably find that every shot would want the same white balance - and it's easy to copy/paste adjustments from one image to another in LR).

You can also set up export rules in Lightroom to dump out selected photos at a particular resolution for posting to the web.


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## yetloh

I too am a big fan of Lightroom. It started out as a tool for organising photographs with a processing package added but now the processing side haas become much more sophisticated so it is an excellent all round tool. The Smart Collections function is brilliant and makes having separate daily folders completely unnecesaary.

Jim


----------



## sploo

yetloh":28zv3mn1 said:


> I too am a big fan of Lightroom. It started out as a tool for organising photographs with a processing package added but now the processing side haas become much more sophisticated so it is an excellent all round tool. The Smart Collections function is brilliant and makes having separate daily folders completely unnecesaary.
> 
> Jim


Agreed. It's relatively rare I need to jump to Photoshop for an edit these days.

For a series of images from a single shoot I like the fact you can copy/paste the colour/tone/brightness edits from one image to all others (then export); so it's really easy to prepare a set of images for posting. It's what I do on my build threads, which is pretty similar to what Steve's doing here.


----------



## Racers

I mostly use Nikons NX-D one because Nikons and two because it's free!
I occasionally use photoshop but not that often. 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

A couple of days ago I discovered that my land line wasn't working. I don't use it much, so I've no idea how long it's been like that. As I waited in for the engineer this morning, my water went off too! Fortunately both were restored pretty quickly. The phone was a faulty connection in the green box over the road and I have no idea what the water was about, there were no workmen in the street as far as I could see.

So once the phone was fixed I went down to the workshop.

I've not replaced the blades in my P/T since I got it back and they are decidedly in need of some TLC. I'd sent them off on Monday and today I decided to fit a new set. These are a bit wider than the originals, not by much but enough for them to be unable to sit far enough down. It's my own fault I swapped the original springs for some home-made ones many years ago, I can't remember why but there was a good reason, but now the new ones don't compress quite enough to accommodate these wider knives.

I have a little jar of springs. They are mainly from handwash bottles, but they were all too big. So I cannibalised a couple of ball-point pens and it worked fine. Took me forever though.

Then I turned my attention to that shutter.

The problem is twofold. the LH trim leans slightly to the left, and the RH trim leans slightly to the right. The result is a noticeably bigger gap at the top than at the bottom. So I cut through the caulk with a multi-tool







and removed the trim






Fortunately it came off easily enough without damage, so I was able to re-use it. I didn't replace the RH one, it wasn't as far out. So I painted the turn-buttons and whilst the paint was drying I fitted the last shutter











I think it looks rather good.


----------



## Zeddedhed

Beautiful. can we see a paisley pattern version too please.

Not sure why but pink looks happy and yellow looks sad. Any colour theorists here that can explain this. Of course it could be a bit of wobble in photoshop....


----------



## Steve Maskery

Zeddedhed":y8vvddbc said:


> Of course it could be a bit of wobble in photoshop....



Darn, and I would have got away with it, too, if it hadn't been for those pesky kids.


----------



## Jamesc

Ahhh someone else who was brought up on Scooby Doo - excellent


----------



## Eric The Viking

It's ingrained in our household too, usually when asked to do the washing up for the second time. ;-)

Steve, you don't think orange and pink would deter burglars, much like playing Handel in shopping centres to deter kids from hanging about?

If I was a felonious non-monk and saw that pink, yellow/orange and blue combination I'd scarperdoublequicktime, in case I found out what the owner had actually got inside...

... I think you ought to try it and see.

E.


----------



## Zeddedhed

Steve's Gimp shed .....?


----------



## n0legs

Zeddedhed":2aokyg5y said:


> Steve's Gimp shed .....?



The gimp's sleeping :lol:


----------



## Halo Jones

Steve - why is the top of the entry door on the right hand side not in line with everything else? Design oversite?


----------



## monkeybiter

Halo Jones":3ooocleh said:


> Steve - why is the top of the entry door on the right hand side not in line with everything else? Design oversite?



It's people like wot cause unrest!

That'll do his head in now, especially if it hadn't been noticed.

Perhaps it could be aesthetically addressed with an aligned sign above the door; 'Essential Workshop' or 'Steve's Den' etc.


----------



## Halo Jones

Sorry  

It was only when all the shutters were in place that I noticed it... If I recall from the distant past of this thread windows were not originally planned, so that it is probably it.

I'll get my coat. :-#


----------



## Steve Maskery

If I had had everything all in line the double doors would have been very low for their width. I did think of running the trim all the way across, with a sign in the space above "Sanctum sanctorum" or suchlike but I'm happy with it as it is.
Well I was, until now.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":1l4dwrsc said:


> If I had had everything all in line the double doors would have been very low for their width. I did think of running the trim all the way across, with a sign in the space above "Sanctum sanctorum" or suchlike but I'm happy with it as it is.
> Well I was, until now.


I would've thought a sign saying "Ebola Research Laboratory" would have more success in warding off the local scrotes :mrgreen:


----------



## blackrodd

I would've thought a sign saying "Ebola Research Laboratory" would have more success in warding off the local scrotes :mrgreen:[/quote]

Those that could read wouldn't know what it was!
Rodders


----------



## sploo

blackrodd":7omjp5qy said:


> Those that could read wouldn't know what it was!
> Rodders


Good point. Perhaps "Job Centre" would be more scary :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've been making the best of the good weather today. Ive finished grouting the back and the LH side and given the back wall a coat of paint.The grouting is not exactly invisible, so I don't know if I should go round and give it another grouting to smooth it off, just sand what is already there, or leave it as it is.
Not much to photograph, but for what it's worth:







I've also started to make a brand new jig, and I've started a new thread in the Jigs forum for that.


----------



## lurker

You might get the wall painted quicker if you used a bigger brush


----------



## AES

Nah, don't be silly lurker - there's no room for a bigger brush between the back wall and the neighbour's fence :lol: 

But seriously Steve - thinking about springs for your planer knives you wrote about in a recent post, not so long ago our Aldi (or Lidl, I forget which) had a plastic box full of all sorts of assorted compression and extension springs - different wire gauges, diameters, lengths, etc. It was only the equivalent of a few quid and I've already dipped into it once or twice with success. I'm sure there are more springs in there than I can use in a lifetime, and there's also bound to be something I'll need that isn't in there, but OTOH I think that such stuff is always handy to have around "just in case".

Ditto, they also had a plastic box full of a wide variety of various tap washers, O rings, fibre washers, little rubber discs, etc, etc, in differing thicknesses & diameters. Again I thought "useful just in case" so I bought and they have indeed come in handy for a couple of odd jobs.

I know I'm not based in UK, but often (not always but often) the Aldi and Lidl things I see being discussed by UK-based Forum members seem to appear in our Aldi & Lidl a few weeks later, so you may want to keep your eyes open next time you're in there.

(And OK, yes, I'll bite. What's that new jig for? Setting the left-handed right-forked quadra-plunked clapper valve I suppose? Or is a knurled flange bracket wobbler adjuster)?

AES


----------



## Eric The Viking

AES":1e8l0fg0 said:


> And OK, yes, I'll bite. What's that new jig for?



'S easy, that one: painting workshop panels...


----------



## AES

Thanks ETV. Obvious when one thinks about it!

AES


----------



## BearTricks

I'm tempted to post a thread on my workshop revamp now, as a way of showing people what not to do.

So far I've started putting new (old spare ones from the house - this was supposed to be cheap) floorboards down only for the entire concrete foundation to crack when I bolted the roofing battens down to support the floor. Maybe one time it was on solid ground, but a nice network of rat tunnels underneath has seen to that. The door frame just fell off one day meaning all my tools ended up in the front room for security until I refixed it (to the annoyance of my girlfriend). I started painting the old stone walls only for the mortar to start crumbling, so I had to learn pointing for the first time in my life.

Several bags of cement later, twice the amount of paint than I'd calculated, and various sundries I thought "screw it, it looks like I'm doing a proper job after all". I wanted it to cost maybe the price of a few tins of paint. I'm cladding some of the walls now in reclaimed timber, partly for aesthetic reasons and partly because fixing them would require some serious time and skills and I don't actually own the building so there's a limit on how much of my own money I'll sink in to it. The only thing left to go wrong now is either the roof caving in or a nightime visit from the local neighborhood scallies. 

I aspire to something like Steve's workshop, maybe one day the girlfriend will forget about this mess and let me start a project like that.


----------



## BearTricks

AES":1kw884ns said:


> Nah, don't be silly lurker - there's no room for a bigger brush between the back wall and the neighbour's fence :lol:
> 
> But seriously Steve - thinking about springs for your planer knives you wrote about in a recent post, not so long ago our Aldi (or Lidl, I forget which) had a plastic box full of all sorts of assorted compression and extension springs - different wire gauges, diameters, lengths, etc. It was only the equivalent of a few quid and I've already dipped into it once or twice with success. I'm sure there are more springs in there than I can use in a lifetime, and there's also bound to be something I'll need that isn't in there, but OTOH I think that such stuff is always handy to have around "just in case".
> 
> Ditto, they also had a plastic box full of a wide variety of various tap washers, O rings, fibre washers, little rubber discs, etc, etc, in differing thicknesses & diameters. Again I thought "useful just in case" so I bought and they have indeed come in handy for a couple of odd jobs.
> 
> I know I'm not based in UK, but often (not always but often) the Aldi and Lidl things I see being discussed by UK-based Forum members seem to appear in our Aldi & Lidl a few weeks later, so you may want to keep your eyes open next time you're in there.
> 
> (And OK, yes, I'll bite. What's that new jig for? Setting the left-handed right-forked quadra-plunked clapper valve I suppose? Or is a knurled flange bracket wobbler adjuster)?
> 
> AES



Those Aldi things are in stock over here on thursday if it's what I'm thinking of. They have a box full of o-rings, a cable management set, various other stuff. I think four or five different sets in all.


----------



## AES

Yeah, that sounds like it Bear Tricks - I've not noticed the cable management set you spoke of, but as I said before, very often stuff that you UK-based Forum members mention as being available over there pop up in our Aldi & Lidl a few weeks later - or sometimes, have already appeared here a few weeks before. I guess all these big companies have some sort of central purchasing organisations.

Anyway, my basic point was if they're like me and "fiddle about" with stuff, members may find that having stuff like a box of assorted springs, a box of rubber & fibre washers, etc, etc, are not bad things to have at your elbow.

AES


----------



## Steve Maskery

I was out and setting up scaffolding and trestles and stuff by 8am today, so I got Brownie points from Ray when he arrived.

Although I haven't blogged it, I've grouted all the cempanel that we had installed and given it all one coat of Semtex, although it hasn't covered anywhere near as well as I had hoped. But we were able to make a start on the upper row of panels.

I had hoped to arrange them symmetrically, but the top edges of the bottom row are not completely flush along the top, because the path is not perfectly level. So the panels are staggered vertically on the top row but just about in line with the bottom row vertically.

Of course, there were many angled cuts, but it was easy to measure from a horizontal datum, and also then check it against a piece of OSB left over from the walls. The trickiest part was notching out for the blocks that look like purlin ends and will carry the soffit.

Sometimes I need longer arms.






When we were laying out we each checked each other's measurements.






It didn't stop us from getting one cut wrong, but it was not too catastrophic and didn't hold us up much.

As ever, Ray took the high road and I took the low road











Although the day had started bright, most of it had been, not exactly raining, but the air was wet. So it wasn't great, but we didn't have to stop, and by the end of the day we had done all the LH wall apart from the two end panels, which will need to be fitted around the soffit ends.

I have a very obliging NDB1 neighbour.






More tomorrow and I hope we can do the same on the other side.

I was supposed to be going out singing this evening, but I am absolutely.....


----------



## UrbanSpaceman

Steve Maskery":2faisrmz said:


> I've grouted all the cempanel that we had installed and given it all one coat of Semtex



I thought you liked the workshop


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ah. I think I might have used Sandtext...


----------



## Wizard9999

Looking at that last picture and how it shows the workshop towering over the fence with your neighbour it still amazes me that you got planning permission. You hear so many stories of disputes between neighbours about much smaller workshops, I guess you must be a very lucky or very charming chap  .

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Actually, you know, the two are not mutually exclusive...


----------



## JonnyW

Hi Steve. I've been reading this thread with great interest - and wow what a thread and what a build. Really nice job and well done to you on so many levels.

Can I ask you a question? - see on your router table, what do you finish the surface off with? (the white stuff!) - is it a paint finish or some kind of melamine?

Kind regards

Jonny


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Jonny
It's Formica (if not that brand then similar).

PS I should say that it is actually a pale blue/grey rather than white. That is deliberate, as brilliant white plays havoc with the camera. This is much more gentle.


----------



## JonnyW

Thank you Steve. Appreciated.

Keep the pics coming !

Jonny


----------



## griggs

That last picture does make it seem immense


----------



## moosepig

It's looking good! An amazing WIP thread.

As for the size, I can only dream.... my "shop" in a converted shed is just under 10' x 8' and the walls are only 5 feet high ](*,)


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":hoxi89fb said:


> Looking at that last picture and how it shows the workshop towering over the fence with your neighbour it still amazes me that you got planning permission



Nah, it's a dwarf hedge.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I thought we were going to leave the end panels until the end, but Ray decided we should finish the wall. 
Yesterday I had a few issues with dust. The specs I wear are safety glasses with a 1.5D prescriptionbut it takes only one tiny spec to make my contact lenses agony. So today I made sure that my AirCap was charged up. Much better.






The end pieces at the front have to be fitted around not just the blocks that support the barge boards but the soffit ends as well, so there is some careful measuring to do if this is going to be right:






Fortunately all was well and the LH wall is now clad.

Then we trundled round to the right and did the same.






I can't get a very good photo of the RH side, but it is all clad except for the two shaped end-pieces.






There will probably be a bit of a hiatus until next Wednesday now as I have a lot of other stuff going on and only some of it is enjoyable. I might get a bit of grouting done if I am lucky.


----------



## lurker

Wizard9999":2rzo831c said:


> I guess you must be a very lucky or very charming chap  .
> 
> Terry.



Who is this we are talking about? :shock: 

The answer is simple, go back to the first page: the neighbours were just glad that eye sore was going to be replaced. 8) 
:lol:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Indeed some are and have told me so. That didn't stop someone - I don't know who - ringing the Council and saying, "Have you seen what's gone up over there?", to which the reply was, "Yes, and it's all above board".
Then my car was egged and keyed.
Oh for a cottage and half an acre in Borsetshire.
S


----------



## Brentingby

Steve Maskery":385h18rl said:


> Oh for a cottage and half an acre in Borsetshire.
> S



Sounds like an idyllic thing. Maybe right along the River Perch


----------



## JonnyW

You should come live in Shetland. No crime here - just four months of winter and 8 months of gale force wind and rain that soaks you on the way down, then soaks you on the way across and then soaks you again on the way up.

Put some hairs on your chest. 

On a positive note - we do know how to wind and water tight buildings up here. 

Oh and no scum - they hate the weather. 

Jonny


----------



## Steve Maskery

I'd quite like to visit Shetland. Do you do B&B?

S
PS My chest is quite hairy enough, thank you.


----------



## JonnyW

Ha ha ha. 

No I don't unfortunately. 

You should visit, it's a beautiful and interesting place. An eclectic built environment, with strong Scandinavian influence in the house building styles, mixed with traditional Scottish. 

I'd be very glad to show you around and treat you to some tattie soup with reestit mutton bannocks, and some lovely local beer. 

Jonny


----------



## Steve Maskery

I think that that is definitely a bucket list jobbie.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Not many photos today, but I have been busy.

I've grouted the rest of the RH side, or at least as far as I can reach on the scaffolding. There is still a bit right at the top but I'm not getting up there on my own. I've also done the LH side as far as I can off the step-ladder.

Then I decided to finish the front LH corner. It's not just to make it pretty, of course, it protects the corner of the cempanel.

I'd planned to use 4 x 1 on the front but I haven't got as much left as I really need, so I used some of my surplus shiplap for the sides, with the moulding ripped off. I discovered that you can't nail through CemPanel! So each hole had to be predrilled.







and then the 4 x 1 went on the front. It is about an inch shorter than I would like, but it was that length already, so I simply lifted it up a bit and I shall fill the gaps with caulk. I thought I'd been very diligent in getting the front cladding all in line, but in fact there is a good 8-10mm gap by the bottom few, so I've squirted one lot of caulk in and I shall finish it off tomorrow. Well, probably Wednesday, actually.











I've found the white paint I was looking for, so I can get that corner finished.


----------



## Brentingby

Nice. Now get that big door made.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Looking good Steve.
can you give us some more details on the grouting/caulking on the panels?


----------



## Steve Maskery

The grout is from Wickes











Some areas need more than one application, but when it is sanded off and painted, it looks like this.






That is just one coat, obviously it needs more.

Today I had a NYL* look at my eyes and all was well, under the circumstances. Vision really good. 6/6 in the right eye, 6/5 in the left and 6/4 both together. That is pretty darned good for someone using two other people's second-hand corneas! Fantastic. Fit wasn't brilliant, which results in my L lens just droppng out at the drop of a hat, but that is really hard to get perfect, so we agreed that if it is not too broke, don't fix it. Fine by me. In fact, she was surprised that it was the LH one that was being troublesome, she thought that the R one looked a lot more unstable.

Then I came home and finished off the caulking of the front LH corner, which took all of 20 minutes.

*Nice Young Lady (I've been a patient at that eye clinic since before she was born) .


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":2wol7z6g said:


> The grout is from Wickes
> 
> .



Why haven't you taped the joints with mesh tape first?
Surely this will crack and possibly allow in water.


----------



## Steve Maskery

TBH I'd not thought of that. But I think that mesh is to support a screed, isn't it? This grout goes into the gaps, like with tiles.

Ray didn't come yesterday, because of the weather, but it brightened up in the afternoon and I got a bit done. I painted that front corner and got the soffit box ends up at the back. It's difficult doing anything like that at theack RH corner as there is a big hole where a bush used to be, rather than anything level to set a ladder on. But I managed it.

But this morning he did arrive, complete with bandaged wrist. He fell in the garden yesterday and has sprained it  But it takes more than that to stop Ray.

We finished cladding the side wall. This is the very last piece of slate lath going on






and the last piece of cempanel - hoorah!






Then we finished the grouting and rebuilt the scaffolding at the back.

I'd painted up some lengths of shiplap and we started to fit it up. We were both up the scaffolding, honest, but I can't set the camera timer and get up in 10 seconds, so these are all pictures of Ray. The very end is quite bent for some reason, so there is a short piece which I tapered to fit.
















We finished early, as I am being picked up in hour, to be whisked away, wined and dined, then I shall laugh all evening long at Andy Hamilton

Ray can't come next week unfortunately which is a pity given that we are so close to completion, but it can't be helped.


----------



## JonnyW

Looking really good Steve. Really enjoying your posts and photos. 

Jonny


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well, it was very misty this morning, so I decided to do a bit inside.

My mate Julian, from the Community Workshop, has asked me a couple of times if I have finished with his Paslode. Well now I have, so I thought I'd better service it before returning it. There are service instructions inside.

So I removed the nails, gas cylinder and battery and undid the various bolts. It was filthy inside, but a squirt of this and a wipe of that and it cleaned up easily enough. I put it back together and... nothing. Not a peep. Well the fan was operating but nothing else was.

I discovered that the nozzle appeared to be jammed, it wasn't sliding properly, but the casing all seemed to be back together properly, there were no gaps in the moulding etc. So feeling a bit worried I dismantled it again, in about a tenth of the time, and had another go. This time it fired properly first time. I have no idea what I'd done wrong the first time, but was relieved that I'd not knackered it up.

By then the mist had cleared somewhat, so I turned my attention to the front RH corner. That needs some wood trim to finish it off, but some eejit had put a downspout in the way, making it difficult to nail anything on the side. But I managed, and then completed the job with a piece on the front.











I've also been painting several lengths of shiplap, ready to finish off the soffits when Ray next comes (Thursday, weather permitting).

Back inside I did a little job I've been meaning to do for a while. My DX is on the far side of my saw from my P/T, which is what it is usually attached to and there is also a scrap bin and workmate in the way, so it is a pain to walk round it all to switch the D on and off. It's such a long way  

Quite a while back I bought some remote controlled switches so decided to use one for the DX. Unfortunately the receiver unit did not fit inside the covered socket on my Power Tower (TM), so I simply added another socket. It's not covered, but I don't think that will matter.






So then I could dangle my zapper from the Unistrut on a piece of bungee that Eric the Viking gave me for another job entirely. Thank you Eric, it will get more use this way. It is above head height, but easily reachable.











I rang Kevin the BCO yesterday. "Eyup", he said, "Have you finished that bit of a job yet?". I told him how far we'd got and he confirmed that he'd like to come and look just as soon as we have finished the soffits. He can then sign it off. So I'm glad Ray can come on Thursday, I wasn't expecting him at all this week. We should get the back finished, I'm not sure we shall get both gable soffits done, too. probably not, actually.


----------



## Racers

Opening day soon Steve?

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

I seem to have said, somewhat rashly, when I started this idiotic malarkey, that I hoped to have a Bash before C........
Fortunately i didn't specify which one.
S


----------



## Wizard9999

You really are only inches from the finish line now Steve, nice job. What will happen to thsi thread, will it be retired or live on?

Terry.


----------



## moosepig

Loving the bungee zapper - I've been considering remote control sockets for my own dust extraction but have been put off by the idea of constantly wondering where I put the remote, this looks like the ideal solution 8)


----------



## Steve Maskery

It was a bit of a late start today, because a load of us were round at Ray's last night, singing and playing. I left at 11.30 and I was one of the first to poop the party, so goodness knows what time Chris and Ray managed to get to bed.

Although it was dry first thing, it wasn't long before it got a bit drizzly. But we'd left the scaffolding up at the back, just storing the boards to keep them dry, so we were up and running very quickly, and by lunchtime we had the soffits finished there. It doesn't look as classy as it should because I'd painted all the soffits so that they would not ed doing when up there, but some eejit left them outside and the rain washed all the ne paint off and now they look ten years old.






Then, fortified by carcinogenic bacon butties, we turned our attention to the RH side. The first job was to check the width and find out how much variation there was. We did this by screwing a gauge block to a pole and poking it in at intervals. We had about 1/4" variation over the whole length, so not too bad.






We decided to do this by elongating the tongue on one length of shiplap so that it can overlap. In that way, we can spring it to the wall and bargeboard and any difference is accommodated by the overlap. We tested it with two short pieces on the router table.
















The test worked just fine, so I ripped all the shiplap to 85mm.






At least, I thought I did. When we started to put them up, we found something was wrong. My rip fence was 95mm all of a sudden. It turned out that the clamp was a bit loose. I don't mean it wasn't clampd properly, I mean it needed adjusting. So I got my Allen keys out (thank you again AES) and fixed it. And then all was well.

The bottom ends of the gable soffits needed some support, so I made a couple of blocks that could be screwed to the box ends.






And the overlap ruse worked perfectly well, this is Ray putting up the last piece,






which made Ray very happy indeed






So we packed up and I rang the council. Kevin the BCO is going to call tomorrow morning.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wizard9999":14abkrst said:


> What will happen to thsi thread, will it be retired or live on?



Sorry Terry, I missed this.
Well I suppose it will stay here until it becomes passé and then it will be allowed to sink. I guess it depends on everyone else, I guess. I'll still post when I have something sensible to say.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

The BCO has just been and is happy to sign it off. "This is the best workshop I've ever seen."
Yippee!

ccasion5:


----------



## Brentingby

good news! Congratulations, sir!


----------



## JonnyW

Congratulations Steve and well done. It has been an absolute pleasure following your big build.

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't mind seeing some final 'inside layout and outside' photos.

Just to make me even more envious. 

Jonny


----------



## Halo Jones

Well done Steve! =D> 

But don't you still have some big doors to make (hammer) 

I'll get me coat!! :lol:


----------



## SeanG

Congratulations Steve, A hard slog, a damn good read and the support from the forum and friends hopefully gives you a hint of the high regard in which you are held.

I'm looking forward to seeing some door making jigs next


----------



## moosepig

Steve Maskery":3c0xmghd said:


> The BCO has just been and is happy to sign it off. "This is the best workshop I've ever seen."
> Yippee!
> 
> ccasion5:


Fantastic! Congratulations well deserved - this has been an epic build! =D> \/ \/


----------



## Racers

Nice one Steve.

Pete


----------



## Droogs

Congratulations and an excellent build. May all your shavings be gossimer and hardwood. Now the fun can begin with all this free time you will now have, you can concentrate on *that *joint. :twisted: 
In all seriousness I wish you all the best in your new home from home and many hours of joy making all the hamsters in the world very comfy


----------



## n0legs

Thank god, I've been having kittens.
Well done Ray!















And thanks to Steve for helping out :wink:


----------



## galleywood

+1 to the above congratulations.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Halo Jones":35fwxk3o said:


> But don't you still have some big doors to make (hammer)



I said it was signed off, not finished... 

There is still a lot to paint, the doors to make, a bit of trim to fit at the back (I have a long gap for part of the length of the soffit, because the wall bows in a bit and the barge board bows out a bit), still some skirting that is just leaning against the wall.

But yes, it is a welcome milestone, and I'm celebrating tonight by going to see Talon.

I rang Ray to tell him but just got the answering machine. He rang me back and I could hear the glee in his voice.


----------



## UrbanSpaceman

Well done.


----------



## lurker

Well done Ray.

:lol:


----------



## flying haggis

JonnyW":1xhhys55 said:


> Congratulations Steve and well done. It has been an absolute pleasure following your big build.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't mind seeing some final 'inside layout and outside' photos.
> 
> Just to make me even more envious.
> 
> Jonny



+1


----------



## Woodmonkey

Congratulations Steve, well done, and thanks for sharing the journey with us


----------



## AES

And yet another +1 here. It's been a really good motivator following your build Steve.

AES


----------



## Flynnwood

Congrats to you for having the initial vision and pushing it through.

You should be proud of yourself  

And Ray =D> 

WELL DONE !


----------



## Peter Sefton

Looking forward to see what you are going to be getting up to in the workshop, well done Steve!

Cheers Peter


----------



## Wizard9999

=D> =D> =D> 

Take bow sir. How about a guided tour video?

Terry.


----------



## John15

Congratulations Steve for completing such a mammoth project. Also to Ray as your main man.

John


----------



## york

Looks amazing, maybe one day ill have a workshop like yours.


----------



## Graham Orm

Congrats Steve. A great achievement and testament to your character. Well done mate. ;-)


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you all for your encouragement and kind words. People only get these sort of nice things said about them after they are dead. 
I t has been a slog, but it's also been about rebuilding my life, not just about building a workshop.

As you say, Peter, it's now about what I do with it.

S


----------



## Peter Sefton

Steve Maskery":3h2lt3fv said:


> Thank you all for your encouragement and kind words. People only get these sort of nice things said about them after they are dead.
> I t has been a slog, but it's also been about rebuilding my life, not just about building a workshop.
> 
> As you say, Peter, it's now about what I do with it.
> 
> S



Well Steve it's great to see you alive and kicking! Looking forward to seeing your next workshop adventures and hope these earn you the living your passion for woodworking and helping others deserves.

Cheers Peter


----------



## damo8604

What I like about it is you've invited us all along warts and all, every mistake you've made you've highlighted (and corrected) so that we can learn and take into consideration should we embark on a similar jounrney. I'm kind of sad to be honest, it's akin to watching say game of thrones or 24 and reaching the final episode and realising that there is to be no more. You are inspirational Steve and you've made me at least four and a half times more attentive to detail on my own shop build!!

All joking aside, top job and a very informative and enjoyable thread. Looking forward to your new videos.

Kind regards
Damian


----------



## Noggsy

Well done Steve. Excellent work in both the build and how have documented it. Hope you have an open day.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well as I said, signed off doesn't mean finished, but I've done a bit more this weekend.

I'd originally planned to use 4x1s as the corner trim, and indeed I have on the front. But I'm a bit short of 4x1and have lots of shiplap left. So I simply cut off the T&G edges. Without Ray to support the ends I had a roller stand behind me and the steps in front to act as a improv support. It worked quite well.







I then thought I would make life easier by painting them all properly before they went up, then there would just be a bit of touching up to do.






Unfortunately that was not the clever idea I thought it was, as when I went down this morning the paint was still wet. Very wet. I guess it had not cured, then got wet and just sat there. Nevertheless I've nailed it up, but I had to wear gloves to stop me getting it all over myself. Fortuantely, when the day brightened up the paint dried properly.

Once up it looked good.











So the only trim left to do is a bit at the edge of the rear soffit to cover a bit of a gap. Tomorrow, maybe, if I can handle it on my own.

Also, whilst up the ladder, I saw my neighbour-at-the-back over the fence and said hello. She had been a bit shirty about this during the build, prompted mainly by the fact that she had to have a fence when I knocked down the old shack. There should have always been a fence, but there wasn't and that boundary is theirs, not mine, so I was not very popular. But she was friendly and said it looked good, so I think harmony is restored.

The only slight mishap was that the shiplap was quite wet when I ripped it. Well, very wet, actually, and water has got onto my MDF throat plate, swelled the front edge, which then gets caught up in the moving workpiece and delaminates into soggy cardboard. So today I've made a couple of new throat plates out of 1/2 ply. Much better material.


----------



## Shultzy

Congratulations Steve, I know how you feel having been through the same process of workshop building, albeit a lot smaller. Now is the time to enjoy making something, maybe that special piece of furniture you promised yourself :wink:.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Wizard9999":1rhx0wvv said:


> =D> =D> =D>
> 
> Take bow sir. How about a guided tour video?
> 
> Terry.




What he said :mrgreen:


----------



## memzey

Well done Steve. A most impressive build. Out of curiosity; what internal floor space have you been left with now that you have lined the walls and added skirting, etc?


----------



## Steve Maskery

memzey":2xjn1eg4 said:


> Well done Steve. A most impressive build. Out of curiosity; what internal floor space have you been left with now that you have lined the walls and added skirting, etc?


I've not measured it exactly but it is about 7.6m square, I think.


----------



## Flynnwood

Steve Maskery":2m708m8y said:


> Also, whilst up the ladder, I saw my neighbour-at-the-back over the fence and said hello. She had been a bit shirty about this during the build, prompted mainly by the fact that she had to have a fence when I knocked down the old shack. There should have always been a fence, but there wasn't and that boundary is theirs, not mine, so I was not very popular. But she was friendly and said it looked good, so I think harmony is restored.



You could always offer to make her a little something to restore even more harmony? 

You say it was their boundary, but it sounds as though it did make them incur some costs they were (maybe) not expecting ???

Might even lead to some enquiries? A gesture like that might go a long way .....

Just a thought


----------



## Halo Jones

> I've not measured it exactly but it is about 7.6m square, I think



So, at approx 60 sqm I'm pretty sure that is bigger than the footprint my first house!


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well actually, as you put it like that, I think it is bigger than the footprint of my current house, let alone my first one!


----------



## Halo Jones

So it's a proper batchelor pad then - the workshop's bigger than the house. The playroom is bigger than the living room :shock: \/

I'm soooo jealous :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Halo Jones":2m0g0fhb said:


> So it's a proper batchelor pad then - the workshop's bigger than the house. The playroom is bigger than the living room :shock: \/
> 
> I'm soooo jealous :wink:



Hee-hee-hee!
You might want the workshop but I assure you you wouldn't want the journey to get here.

I've had a bit of a fillip today. I volunteer at a Community Workshop and I give a lift there to a 70-something lady who is going blind and can no longer drive. I told her about my cogitations regarding crowd funding and Patreon and so on and she said she'd like to give me my first £25 towards the project.

So only £3475 to go!

Really pleased, actually, it's coming together in my head. I need to get more down on paper.


----------



## woodshavings

Quote: ..." I told her about my cogitations regarding crowd funding and Patreon and so on..." 


So what's all this about Steve - Have I missed something???

John


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes, I think you have, John.

Do try to keep up, there's a good chap 

crowd-funding-any-experience-t92414.html
fao-steve-maskery-patreon-t92666.html

On second thoughts, perhaps being patronising isn't exactly the best way to woo, er, patrons!


----------



## Steve Maskery

You might remember that we laid a new patio but didn't do as good a job as we thought we were. It is a bit Himalyan. There are some areas that are already lower than the surrounding edge (which is set on concrete) and that is before it has been whackered.

So Ray turned up with a whacker plate today. He did a bit






and I did a bit






There was not a lot of obvious movement, but then, of course, it's had a few months of being walked on and general settling.

So we stacked a couple of square metres of blocks by the side of the log cabin and set out our levels again.






I was Sand-Carrier-In-Chief and Ray screeded the area. Once we'd started it was relatively easy, leap-frogging the blocks as we went.





















At one point we realised we were getting well out of line and we had to do a couple of metres again, but as the light started to fade we had done it up to the conservatory and it looks better than it did before. Much better; better level and better line, too.






I'm not sure whether Ray is coming tomorrow, the forecast is not brilliant, although it does not appear quite as bad as it seemed yesterday.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I bought a large sheet of green cloth several years ago and I don't think I've ever used it. Maybe once. But having all this Unistrut stuff up on the ceiling, it makes sense to install it.

I've also got some large rigid conduit I acquired a few years ago and has been getting in the way ever since, so I bought some rope, hooks, eye bolts, Zebedees, clips and suchlike and rigged this up.







The cloth has an open hem at the top with a wooden strip in it, and it is held on with some clips made from short lengths of conduit.











The rope is tied on a cleat






When not in use it's out of the way






It means I can take a picture like this






and a picture like this






and make a picture like this






The same thing can be done with video, it's how they do the weather forecast stuff on TV. I don't know how much I'll use it, but it's there when I need it.

At the moment it's held on a wooden lath, but I know where there is an aluminium dinghy mast surplus to requirements and it's mine for the collecting, next time I go and visit my old ex-NDN.


----------



## JonnyW

I didn't see that coming Steve.

I thought it might have been a roll-away spray booth or somik like that.

Jonny


----------



## SammyQ

Can't wait to see the Weta rip-offs....  

"Planes "...."Workshop Impossible "..."Jurassic Padauk"...


Sam


----------



## sploo

SammyQ":5675kt2t said:


> Can't wait to see the Weta rip-offs....
> 
> "Planes "...."Workshop Impossible "..."Jurassic Padauk"...
> 
> 
> Sam


 =D> for the last one alone :wink:


----------



## SammyQ

"Ai thank yew"...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well I went out to the cabin and couldn't find any rubber. But I did find a short roll of DPM that we used twixt sole plate and concrete. It doesn't really have a lot of give, but it might do. So I took it down to the workshop and photographed it.






It was as I was photographing it that I saw the square of sticky, squidgy stuff stuck on the underside of the sink. I guess it is to stop the sinks from scratching each other in the factory when they are made and stacked. But it is perfect gasket material. Whooppee! The rest of the unit has come out well from the dishwasher, so I think I get a few quid back from B&Q/Home Depot. They are identical.

I've also been told off (privately) about my knot-tying skills. And me a Chief Scout too. Shameful. So that needs to be put right.


----------



## Brentingby

Very seaman-like there, Steve. You'll make a sailor, yet.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I already am!




S


----------



## Brentingby

Brilliant!


----------



## NickWelford

I thought that square squidgy stuff is supposed to act as some kind of damper on the underneath of the bowl to make a thin sink sound more like a heavy gauge sink.......


----------



## Steve Maskery

Maybe it is. Could be. But all I know is that I think it makes a pretty decent gasket.

I've just been out and fixed it. Got the sink into the hole, but I've got to remove more of the back to get it into the right place. There will be nothing left of the cabinet structure!

A few years ago I fitted a kitchen for some friends. I did a decent job, not perfect, but pretty good. I'd never fitted a sink before and I did it when the plumber was present. I'm glad he was, as I'd never have thought to remove so much material to get the sink in.

There really has to be a better way.

I've worked out in my head how to do a better job, but it will need to wait until tomorrow, now.


----------



## Graham Orm

Steve Maskery":3lfy3uvl said:


> I already am!
> View attachment 20150912
> 
> S




AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! So the America jaunt was all a green screen experiment!!


----------



## wcndave

I noticed the same when doing my kitchen, you really have very little worktop left front and back. I was constantly worried about it breaking when I moved it.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Some time ago I was given a kitchen sink and I've been wanting to put it in the workshop. The problem is what to do with the waste water. I'm not allowed to discharge it into the rainwater soakaway. But I reckon that a caravan-style butt will be adequate for what little water I shall use. It's just for washing my hands, sorting out my contact lenses when they fall out and using water stones.

So as I mentioned, I had to cut away a lot of the unit to accommodate the sink and I didn't like how flimsy that left the unit as a result. They are only cheap units to start with, with a 3mm back, so I decided to rebuild them.

I cut out the back rail completely. Unfortunately that did do some damage to the inside faces of the sides, but it is high up, inside at the back, behind the bowl, so no-one is ever going to see it, not even me. I also cut some pieces from the cutout and pocket-holed them in place. The unit is now more solid that it was to start with 






I bought the Kreg a couple of years ago when Axi was selling them off. I've never used it until today. I can't be certain, but I think some bits are missing. There were no bolts to clamp the toggle clamp to the base and no manual. I've had to download it off the net. It's a bit late to send it back now!

The notch on the right is to allow a cable out. Believe it or not I did clamp a piece of scrap to the back to prevent spelching, but obviously not well enough. Still, it's all hidden. :-" 

I also cut another strip from the centre waste, bandsawed it down and stuck it through the drum sander until only the laminate was left. I then used it to cover the end of the worktop.






The tap is from Screwfix and it heats the water as it come through, like a combi boiler, so there is no need for a separate water heater. I've also bought a water softener, plus another one (which hasn't arrived yet) for the boiler in my house. When the plumber comes I'll get him to install both at the same time.






I bought some cheap tiles in B&Q the other day, a bin end. They were not the perfect colour, but I wasn't too bothered, they were cheap. My tiling tools were part of the haul, so I asked on the Off-Topic forum how I might cut them. Thanks for your help, guys.

I'm glad I waited a bit, because just as I was about to start I remembered that I already had some tiles left over from my bathroom, tucked away in the airing cupboard. And they were a better colour, too. I have a little laundry room, so I'll use the new ones in there, so they won't be wasted.

The tiles themselves were just a tad too high to fit under the wall sockets, so they will have to go behind the worktop rather than on top of it. The walls are pretty good there, so it will look OK, I don't think there will be any unsightly gaps. So I pulled the unit out and screwed some support strips to the wall.






These tiles are a different size to the ones I've just bought, so it turned out that I needed only one cut. I scored it with an angle grinder blade






put a triangular stick underneath it and pressed. Nothing! I had to practically jump on it to break it.






But when it did go it was as clean as a whistle. Very pleased.






It's over 20 years since I did any tiling, I'd forgotten how messy it is. And having to improvise without the right tools (my notched trowel, for example) is a pain. But the end result looks OK, I think. I'll grout it tomorrow.


----------



## xy mosian

Cracking job allround Steve, congratulations and well done.

Might I suggest making the notch, for the cable, into a notch for the plug? Much easier than taking the plug off if the heater needs removing at any time.

xy


----------



## flying haggis

xy mosian":16tp5aoc said:


> Cracking job allround Steve, congratulations and well done.
> 
> Might I suggest making the notch, for the cable, into a notch for the plug? Much easier than taking the plug off if the heater needs removing at any time.
> 
> xy


Make the notch accomodate a cable with a socket on the end, and plug the heater into that, best of both worlds then.


----------



## lurker

Those power sockets are too close to the sink. 
I doubt the plumber will agree to work on that.
I guess the sparky who signed off your paperwork was unaware a sink was going there.

Sorry to rain on your parade


----------



## wcndave

My plumber and electrician put plugs closer than that! Was a team effort as well.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hmm, I know. I might have to blank it off.


----------



## lurker

All three of them?
Also a blank off plate might not be enough.
It needs to be the correct IP rating.

The recommendations (note that word!) say a minimum of 300mm but 1200mm prefered.

If it were mine the one behind the tap & the next left would definitily go.
The one on the left (on the other wall) might be in excess of the 300mm but it doesn't look it from the photos 

The electrical heater tap thingy needs a fused outlet not a 3 pin plug.


----------



## Steve Maskery

You really know how to spoil a mate's Monday morning, don't you Jim? 
I'll look into it.


----------



## lurker

Steve Maskery":3ic7ehyo said:


> You really know how to spoil a mate's Monday morning, don't you Jim?
> I'll look into it.


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Steve Maskery":1nl327ai said:


> I bought a large sheet of green cloth several years ago and I don't think I've ever used it. Maybe once. But having all this Unistrut stuff up on the ceiling, it makes sense to install it.
> 
> and make a picture like this
> 
> 
> 
> *The same thing can be done with video*, it's how they do the weather forecast stuff on TV. I don't know how much I'll use it, but it's there when I need it.



Green screen looks like fun, I can see it now.

Steve Maskery presents A Workshop Essentials production......... THE THICKNESSER starring Edward Woodwood... cue cheesy music.


----------



## mseries

mindthatwhatouch":20tudwag said:


> Green screen looks like fun, I can see it now.
> 
> Steve Maskery presents A Workshop Essentials production......... THE THICKNESSER starring Edward Woodwood... cue cheesy music.



made me think of that part in Waynes World where Wayne and Garth where told about green screens for the first time. "Steve and Ray make a bansdaw fence in ... Hawaii"


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Steve,
Blank off two sockets closest to the sink, can you easily get a cable down below worktop height (in the stud wall) to feed a spur for the heater?


----------



## SammyQ

Post deleted.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Wednesday saw Ray and me doing more to the patio. It's not finished yet, but it is much, much better and should be exactly as it should be once it is all laid and whackered.







Today, however, I got the sink sorted. I fitted a fused spur, as I should have done in the first place, and then DougB came round and drilled a hole for me. Ray and I had already drilled a 25mm hole, but my waste pipe is only 25mm (like a caravan) and there was no clearance. So Doug sorted me out. Thank you very much, Doug.

Then my mate Martin came and sorted out the wet stuff. 






The only snag was that when we turned on the water, it leaked at the house end (wait until I tell Ray  ), but that was easily fixed. Apparently I need more insulation at that end, too. So now it looks like this. Unfortunately I've scuffed the wall when drilling for the spur. Does anyone have a brushfull of magnolia matt emulsion I can touch it up with?











It's great having hot water to clean up. I've never had that luxury. The water flow is quite gentle, a spray - I'm glad I don't have that in my kitchen - but for handwashing it's fine. And it means that when my contact lens falls out, which it does with monotonous regularity, I don't have to traipse all the way back up to the house.

Now I need to buy a wall unit, make some doors and find 7 matching handles. 7. Why are they all sold in packs of 6? Grrrr.

The drainage isn't sorted properly yet, I need to get a caravan butt thingy. And Martin discovered he didn't have any white silicone, but he lives just along the road and is coming back tomorrow.

BTW, that orange thing is a water softener. Martin fitted a similar one to my combi boiler, too. They should stop the systems furring up, we are quite hard here.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Steve Maskery":2vlde9or said:


> BTW, that orange thing is a water softener. Martin fitted a similar one to my combi boiler, too. They should stop the systems furring up, we are quite hard here.



'Ard??? 

Laying paving in this weather is beyond 'ard. Bloomin' freezin' down 'ere.

You'll be felling your timber with karate chops next.

Seriously, forget washing hands: it's brilliant to be able to make a brew without going back to the house.

E.


----------



## AES

Steve, re handles for the kitchen cupboards, I suggest you give Banbury Plastic Fittings a try. As well as lots of plastic stuff they do all sorts of metal gear (ali, SS, etc) for furniture, and sell a lot of stuff in singles or qty's as you choose. They also have sales (end of a specific line, etc) with reduced prices from time to time. I found them by recommendation from this Forum and found them very easy to deal with - sensible prices and good responsive service, and they even sent me a free sample of one particular bit to try for a specific job. They also know exactly how to ship stuff to non-EU countries, so you "oop norf" should be OK (sorry). Usual disclaimers.

Link: www.bpfonline.co.uk

HTH

Also, re your last post about that orange water softener, do you/does your mate know how it works? Fill it with salt regularly? Who makes them/what are they called/available outside UK please? I ask because our water here is V hard (to the extent that I keep a spare set of filter thingys for each tap in the house and have to change them for de-chalking about once a month) and the only thing I've found here is a blooming great tank/filter thing that you have to keep in the cellar. Any steers would be much appreciated, TIA.

And thanks for the on-going saga too - still a V good incentive to lazy so & so's like me!

Krgds
AES


----------



## Steve Maskery

It's a Fernox Quantomat
http://www.compass-plumbing.co.uk/chemi ... oCeXDw_wcB


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've received my Certificate of Completion from the Council. Officially Done!


----------



## Eric The Viking

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !!!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## John15

Many congratulations Steve.

John


----------



## AES

+ another one with congrats on a job very well done Steve. And thanks for the info re water softener too.

Krgds
AES


----------



## flying haggis

hi steve
buy/make some more rope cleats and use them as door handles


----------



## Racers

Congratulations Steve.

+1 for the cleat door handles, a nautical themed workshop! :wink:  

Pete


----------



## Peter Sefton

It's a great piece of paper to get in your hand after all the hard work, well done Steve

Cheers Peter


----------



## mindthatwhatouch

Peter Sefton":3hkg0c0x said:


> It's a great piece of paper to get in your hand after all the hard work, well done Steve
> 
> Cheers Peter



Wot he said


----------



## Newbie_Neil

Hi Steve,

Congratulations on a job well done.

Neil


----------



## Steve Maskery

You will remember that the patio was a tad on the disappointing side...

But we have lifted it, area by area and yesterday we did the last patch up by the house.






Today we fitted most of the odd-shaped ones around the edges. We had to re-cut a lot, becasue of course, the blocks didn't go back in exactly the same place as from where they came up.

So then it was a case of whackering, sanding and whackering some more.





















One problem was the Dry Pavior Sand. Some of it was not very dry, the bags having been stored covered, but outside, and clearly at least one bag was not as sealed as it should have been. But even the sand that was dry didn't stay dry for very long. As we were sweeping it around it was picking up moisture from the blocks, which were very wet, after all the rain we have had recently.

There are a few metres of edge blocking that needs to be re-laid, mainly around the conservatory, back door and round as far as the gate. 






But the rest, whilst not perfect, is very good. Better, much better, than it was before.


----------



## Graham Orm

It's a big area Steve, you could get a nice sized workshop on there. :mrgreen:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Debris in the workshop is the bane of my life. I have several shopvacs, from cheap and nasty to top-of-the-range Festool, but all of them require emptying with monotonous regularity. Sometimes I can use a bag more than once, but emptying it is unpleasant and the bags themselves are pricey. And it's not just the bags. The shopvac has a filter which needs to be cleaned. When it gets clogged up, the machine cannot suck as well as it did before, and efficiency drops.

I've long wanted a dust separator, which sits between the machine making the mess and my shopvac which cleans it up.

The separator works because debris remains airborne only when the air is moving quickly When the air is slow or still, all the debris falls under gravity. It's just the same as leaves on a windy autumn day. They blow about until the wind drops, then so do they.

Air in the hose is travelling fast, but as it enters the oil drum, it slows down dramatically because it is the same volume of air moving though a much bigger space. As the air slows, the dust falls into the drum and once is is down there it cannot be sucked back up as it is too far away and there is a baffle in the way, too. So the only air going into the shopvac itself is clean air. So the bag doesn't fill and the filter stays clean, keeping the efficiency of the system high.

And finally, the oil drum is bigger than the shopvac bag, so doesn't need to be emptied as often. 

I've seen several designs on YouTube and they seem straightforward to build. One day, a few months ago, I was driving round an industrial estate looking for a warehouse when I spotted a sign - “Oil Drums”. The guy who ran it wouldn't let me in, because of “hazardous substances”, which was fine by me, actually, but he was very helpful and 10 minutes later I was in possession of a rather tatty but undamaged oil drum with a well-fitting lid. It had contained mercury thermometers, but he assured me that it had been industrially cleaned, and indeed, apart from the rust, it did look OK.

Since then I've been collecting a few hoses from dead vacuum cleaners so now it is time to get cracking on the separator.

I started with the baffle. This is a piece of 6mm plywood. Its shape is made from two concentric circles. Part of the outside shape is the inside radius of the drum, in this case about 175mm, and the larger section is a smaller radius, in this case about 140mm. Although I do have a very nice router circle-cutting jig, it was made for my Elu and I need to re-make it for my Festool, but for now I rigged up a makeshift jig. It is simply a length of plywood 25mm hole and a panel pin for the centre. My router can be fitted with a 25mm bush so the router just drops in. Having routed about half way though, I changed the radius and cut the rest. 
















Then over to the bandsaw to rough-cut to the groove and finish on the router table with a flush-trim bit to get my finished baffle.











Actually, I have since modified it from the photographs to bring the leading edge of the full rim back to meet the shoe, because I didn't get the position of the baffle quite right with respect to the inlet.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Next it's some metalwork. There needs to be two holes in the lid, one for the debris-laden air to enter, and another for the clean air to be sucked out. One of the bits and pieces that I had collected was a spigot off a Henry and one end of it is just the right size for all my shopvacs to fit. It is moulded to fit the curve of a Henry machine, but if I turn it over the flange is flat, which is what I need. So I measured it at 57mm. Hmm, that's not very convenient, is it? And this hole needs to be cut in the steel lid of the oil drum.

I rang a couple of mates to see if they have an adjustable tank cutter, but no joy. So I marked out on the drum and resigned myself to drilling lots and lots of small holes and finishing it off with a file. Actually it was neither as difficult nor time-consuming as I feared and I ended up with a nice neat hole. A nice neat hole of exactly the wrong size... I'd failed to notice that there was a second flange underneath the main one. But is was done now, and it was actually a very good, neat job, so I've left it. It is sitting on a flange, just not the main wide one I'd intended. I've filled the resulting groove around it with roof sealant, so it is completely airtight. 





















The second hole is for the dirty air to enter, and for this I need to fit a piece of bent tube. My friend Doug recommended 50mm drainpipe fittings, which are easily found at Screwfix. So I bought a drainpipe shoe and a collar. 

The collar is 46mm at one end, and the closest drill I have is a 45mm Forstner bit. Close enough and with a bit of sanding, it fits perfectly.

The hoses themselves are all different, but each is fitted with a nozzle, some are hard and rigid, some, like the Festool, are soft and pliable. I really like the Festool one, and it needs to be pliable for the oval dust port on my router. So I was trying to find a way of connecting that hose to the separator so that I could still use it, whilst using one of my salvaged hoses between the shopvac and the separator. To cut a long story short, I cut the collar in half so that the small end went into the big end, gaffer-taped a few other bits of piping together, and ended up with hoses which can be swapped around between my router table, SCMS and hand-held power tools all going through the separator before the shopvac itself.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Finally, I screwed four corner blocks to a square of OSB and fitted a set of castors underneath, so that the separator can be wheeled around the workshop easily.











So the big question is, “Does it work?”. I emptied the bag of my Lidl shopvac onto the floor and piled on as much other debris I could. I weighed brand new bag (72g) and installed it in the machine, then vacuumed up the pile of dirt.











When I had finished, that same bag weighed 148g, so 76g of dust had got through. The contents of the drum weighed 2834g, so the total comes to almost exactly 3kg of workshop dust, of which about 2.5% got through. That means that the bags will last 40x as long as they would otherwise and I won't have to empty them as often either.





















The unkind would say it is all cobbled together. I prefer the term ”evolving engineering”.


----------



## NickWelford

Would a cyclone have been more efficient?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Quite possibly. But considerably more difficult to make.


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":uswr50bw said:


> Quite possibly. But considerably more difficult to make.


Indeed. What you have there is a form of Thien separator (http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm).

Cyclones (of the form designed by Bill Pentz) are amazing, but much more work to build.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I meant to post the cost of this.

Oil drum (although it had never contained oil, AFAIAA), - £2
All-thread I was given - £0
Nuts and washers - I went to local supplier and asked for a bag of nuts and bolts. I have enough to last me the rest of my life, they cost me a tenner.
Plastic guttering fixings - £3.34
Hose bits and pieces cadged from friends - £0


----------



## Steve Maskery

sploo":2v9v7qdk said:


> Steve Maskery":2v9v7qdk said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possibly. But considerably more difficult to make.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. What you have there is a form of Thien separator (http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm).
> 
> Cyclones (of the form designed by Bill Pentz) are amazing, but much more work to build.
Click to expand...


You are quite right, it's pretty much a copy of Phil Thien's. I did not mean to imply that any of this was my original design, it isn't.

I don't know if Mr. Thien invented this or if he simply popularised it on YT, but either way, I do owe him a debt of gratitude.

S


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":1rtass2w said:


> sploo":1rtass2w said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Maskery":1rtass2w said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quite possibly. But considerably more difficult to make.
> 
> 
> 
> Indeed. What you have there is a form of Thien separator (http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm).
> 
> Cyclones (of the form designed by Bill Pentz) are amazing, but much more work to build.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> You are quite right, it's pretty much a copy of Phil Thien's. I did not mean to imply that any of this was my original design, it isn't.
> 
> I don't know if Mr. Thien invented this or if he simply popularised it on YT, but either way, I do owe him a debt of gratitude.
> 
> S
Click to expand...

Steve - take a look at his forum. He seems to be both a rather smart, and also pretty humble, guy (in the sense that he makes few grand claims about his inventions).

It looks as though a top hat design (side inlet) is now the preferred layout, and I've been meaning to build one for a while as I don't have the height for a Pentz style cyclone.

BTW For the Festool vac the Oneida Ultimate Dust Deputy does seem to work pretty well. It's not cheap though.


----------



## Halo Jones

Steve, from what I have read you should play about with a tube reaching down from the clean air outlet towards the baffle. It seems there should only be a gap of about half the diameter of the tube between the tube and baffle. I assume this description is clear as mud so you might want to look here:
https://woodgears.ca/reader/hector/shopvac.html

This should hopefully prevent even less dust making it to your vacum bags.

H.


----------



## Halo Jones

Looking again at the position of your baffle. Shouldn't it be moved around by 120 degrees so the incoming air hits the baffle for a bit longer?


----------



## Wizard9999

A jolly cost effective solution Steve. I wondered if you noticed any meaningful reduction in suction using the separator?

Terry.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Halo Jones":3jjewhrz said:


> Looking again at the position of your baffle. Shouldn't it be moved around by 120 degrees so the incoming air hits the baffle for a bit longer?



I don't think so. In fact I've cut the baffle back right to the tip of the inlet. I want as little dust as possible on the top side of that baffle.

In actual fact, I think it would work just as well with a simple circular disk, rather than the two-radius one I'm really not sure what it is supposed to achieve, it's just how the original was.

I like the idea of having the outlet down close to the baffle, I'll see if I can arrange that.

Terry - The system is very well sealed now that I've used the roof sealant and there is no noticeable drop in suction. The only hitch is that debris can get trapped at the hose ends where they fit into other bits of plastic, but it's not a major problem.


----------



## sploo

Halo Jones":2jwxud97 said:



> Looking again at the position of your baffle. Shouldn't it be moved around by 120 degrees so the incoming air hits the baffle for a bit longer?


That's a good spot - yes; I believe there are aero reasons for having the incoming air hug the baffle before dropping down the slot (possibly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect). It also reduces the propensity of the incoming air stream to lift material from the bucket (scrubbing).

See the layout at: http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm


----------



## Steve Maskery

That's an interesting Wiki, Sploo, thanks.
As regards the air sticking to hard surfaces, that does make sense. I'm no aerodynamics engineer, but I did used to teach Physics and have a reasonable general knowledge. I reckon, though, that the side of the drum itself will serve the same purpose. Maybe I should add a chute off the baffle drooping downwards.
But I still maintain that the less dust that touches the top side of the baffle, the better. Or am I missing something?


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":2x0p1av6 said:


> That's an interesting Wiki, Sploo, thanks.
> As regards the air sticking to hard surfaces, that does make sense. I'm no aerodynamics engineer, but I did used to teach Physics and have a reasonable general knowledge. I reckon, though, that the side of the drum itself will serve the same purpose. Maybe I should add a chute off the baffle drooping downwards.
> But I still maintain that the less dust that touches the top side of the baffle, the better. Or am I missing something?


AFAIU The air/dust will hug the outside wall due to the velocity/angle of the incoming stream, but gravity is what's getting the larger chips to fall through the baffle. I believe the main rationale for the angular placement of the baffle slot is that it reduces scrubbing - i.e. it prevents the inlet air from interfering with the dust already in the drum/can. I'm pretty certain there's relevant discussion on the Thien forum, but I'm afraid I don't have a link to hand (it's been a while since I last read through some of the articles).


----------



## brianhabby

I purchased a plastic dustbin lid some years ago that has two holes in the top for exactly the application you have described and it works perfectly being especially effective for the masses of chipping when planing. I am sure I bought it from Axminster but having rummaged through their catalogue, I can find no trace of it. It just sits on top of a regular plastic dustbin and has a foam strip around the interior of the lid which makes a seal between the lid and the bin.

I accept this is no good to you now Steve and your oil drum will hold much more debris than a regular dustbin but it may be of interest to others. I'll take a photo and post if anyone is interested.

regards

Brian


----------



## sploo

brianhabby":1shj1pl0 said:


> I purchased a plastic dustbin lid some years ago that has two holes in the top for exactly the application you have described and it works perfectly being especially effective for the masses of chipping when planing. I am sure I bought it from Axminster but having rummaged through their catalogue, I can find no trace of it. It just sits on top of a regular plastic dustbin and has a foam strip around the interior of the lid which makes a seal between the lid and the bin.
> 
> I accept this is no good to you now Steve and your oil drum will hold much more debris than a regular dustbin but it may be of interest to others. I'll take a photo and post if anyone is interested.
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian


Those bin lid separators are perfectly good, but the Thien baffle helps to reduce scrubbing. Whether it also makes the system more efficient (less turbulence) I don't know. The ultimate is obviously a well designed cyclone; but a poorly designed one won't be great either.

The best systems will leave almost no visible dust coming into your extractor - so you can use very high quality fine filters for your health, but obviously avoid sandblasting them. If the primary goal is to just reduce the amount of material hitting your shop vac bag then obviously something that sophisticated isn't a must. All separators will of course rob you of some pressure/suction, so it's important to not kill the airflow so much that you're then struggling to collect the dust at source.


----------



## flying haggis

brianhabby":2wgdo1vk said:


> I purchased a plastic dustbin lid some years ago that has two holes in the top for exactly the application you have described and it works perfectly being especially effective for the masses of chipping when planing. I am sure I bought it from Axminster but having rummaged through their catalogue, I can find no trace of it. It just sits on top of a regular plastic dustbin and has a foam strip around the interior of the lid which makes a seal between the lid and the bin.
> 
> I accept this is no good to you now Steve and your oil drum will hold much more debris than a regular dustbin but it may be of interest to others. I'll take a photo and post if anyone is interested.
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian


just googled "dust seperator lid" and this appeared

http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http:// ... 7s0MZ2Xsjg

is this what you mean?


----------



## brianhabby

flying haggis":1rpida6y said:


> brianhabby":1rpida6y said:
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased a plastic dustbin lid some years ago that has two holes in the top for exactly the application you have described and it works perfectly being especially effective for the masses of chipping when planing. I am sure I bought it from Axminster but having rummaged through their catalogue, I can find no trace of it. It just sits on top of a regular plastic dustbin and has a foam strip around the interior of the lid which makes a seal between the lid and the bin.
> 
> I accept this is no good to you now Steve and your oil drum will hold much more debris than a regular dustbin but it may be of interest to others. I'll take a photo and post if anyone is interested.
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian
> 
> 
> 
> just googled "dust seperator lid" and this appeared
> 
> http://www.google.co.uk/url?url=http:// ... 7s0MZ2Xsjg
> 
> is this what you mean?
Click to expand...

Yes flying haggis, that is exactly what I am talking about.

regards

Brian


----------



## Krysstel

Steve.

The Thein-type seperator I made a few months ago maybe of some interest.
Half way down page 2 + page 3.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/extraction-lvhp-chip-hvlp-dust-or-both-t56466-15.html

With the duct setup I had it initially robbed far too much suction but after rationalising the ductwork and plugging every single leak I've got the system back to about the same suction level as before I introduced the seperator. The beauty of it is that I no longer have to clean the filter out at all - which is what I was trying to achieve in the first place  

Mark


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Mark
Yes, I did see that when I was exploring the idea. Great job, there.
S


----------



## phlibitt

"I did actually get on top of the roof today, but I'm not dead keen on heights anyway and I'm absolutely terrified of falling again."

Indeed! Don't forget Rod Hull.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Winding sticks are an essential tool for any woodworker. So how have I got to this advanced stage of life without ever having made a pair? Well for years, decades, actually, I have made do with two spirit levels, a blue one and a white one. They worked very well, until someone stole the contents of my workshop. I now have a selection of spirit levels, all of them bright yellow!

So for the last couple of years I have had Winding Sticks on my to-do list. Last weekend I visited the workshops of Peter Sefton, who has a beautiful woodworking school and tool shop in rural Worcestershire. I was there to demonstrate his new range of router tables, but also on display was the work of his students in their first term of furniture-making tuition. The workmanship of some of the pieces from guys less than half my age put my work to shame. One of the projects Peter gets them to make is a pair of winding sticks, and so I determined to make myself a Rolls-Royce pair.

Winding sticks are two very precisely made pieces of wood. They are dead straight and there is a visual contrast between the two. They will tell me whether my piece of wood or frame is properly flat.

Any piece of wood that we plane up usually has to be true and flat. Unfortunately, wood has a tendency to move as its water content changes and that means that it may not be as flat as we would like. The consequences of this manifest themselves further down the line when we join components together, such as in a rail and stile door, or a face-frame. If it is not glued up planar, then doors do not close at both top and bottom and frames of any kind have one corner which kicks out. We don't want that. We want Flat. Very Flat Indeed.

Winding sticks help because they exaggerate any deviation from flat. We call this Wind (that is Wind as in Clock, not Wind as in Hurricane). Winding sticks are our friends, because they warn us of problems further down the line.

Traditionally, winding sticks have a wingtip at each end of the rear-most stick, which is a contrasting colour to the main stick. That is fine, provided that the background against which I view the wingtip is clearly defined against the general background. But my background consists of a bandsaw and a couple of wall-hung storage boards. So why not make the visual contrast an integral part of the device? So I have inlaid a strip a little down from the top edge, where it would normally be. This gives me a dark background to the white line and has the added bonus of me not having to bend down quite so low to use them. And, as I get older and more decrepit, that begins to matter!

To make my winding sticks I have chosen American Black Walnut and English Sycamore. Sycamore is part of the Acer family (Acer Pseudoplantanus), so it is really a type of soft maple. It is nice and white and makes a good contrast to the walnut. You can use any two contrasting woods, as long as one is dark and the other is light. The only problem with walnut is that it is soft to the touch, it is easy to ding with even a fingernail, so if you can find something physically harder, that would be even better.

So I started with a piece of American Black Walnut and planed it up with my sharpest plane and my most accurate try square. This is an exercise in hand-tool precision. It has to be straight and square. It was, for a while, and then I had to do it all over again because it moved. Twice. I did end up with something with which I was happy but I am assuming that it will be a compromise for ever.

Its final dimensions were 520 x 55 x 34mm.

















I want to keep both sticks together, so I bought a length of brass rod, 6mm diameter, and drilled a pair of holes for them. I stopped about 6mm short of going right through.











The shape of winding sticks is also traditional rather than functional. We are viewing two edges, one against the other, and it is traditional for those edges to be thin. So I marked a couple of bevels and set my tablesaw up to cut them.






Now my tablesaw is a version of a very old, American, well-established, design. That means that the blade tilts towards the fence, and that is a bit of a problem, as it increases the risk of the workpiece getting jammed between the fence and the blade.

More modern designs have the blade tilting away from the fence, so that nothing gets trapped at all, so I reduce the risk by moving my fence to the left of the blade. The only problem for me now is that my SUVA guard no longer fits, but I have a stand-alone magnetic guard which keeps my fingers away from the blade.











So I bevelled both sides to 16 degrees.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The sawn edges needed cleaning up with a plane, and the triangular off-cuts from the bevelling cut helped me to keep the workpiece nice and level.











My workpiece now needs to by sawn down the middle. I had visions of it moving into two banana-shaped pieces, but, although there was some movement, it wasn't too bad. Nothing that a couple of passes with a sharp plane couldn't sort out.

Now it is time to sort out the contrast. I found a piece of sycamore. English sycamore is a type of maple, American sycamore is a type of plane tree. They are not the same family, it is a linguistic nightmare. Sycamore is very white, or at least, it should be, but it is prone to blue staining and discolouration. This was pretty bad, but with some care and a lot of wasted wood, I was able to produce a strip which was white rather than blue.

I set my router table up with a half-inch cutter (12.7mm), a feather board and a push stick. I also have a “plug-hole” dust extraction port for situations where I cannot suck out the debris from the rear. Just like now.











So I routed out a groove and very carefully prepared a strip of sycamore to fill it. The strip is ever so slightly proud of the surface, so I was able to use the other half of the unit to clamp it in place with a few spring clamps.

Once cured, I cleaned up the sycamore to be be flush with the walnut.











The brass rod needs to be just about 25mm long, so I cut a piece 50mm, chucked it in a drill and polished it with some diamond files and wire wool. Beautiful.











Of course, I want a snug fit in one half and an easier fit at the other, so for the second piece I drilled it out at 6.35mm, which is 1/4”. I rather wish I had a proper set of engineering drills, as, although it is tolerable, it is a bit too easy a fit. I would have preferred something bit tighter; 6.1 or 6.2mm, perhaps.

The last job is to drill a hanging hole. I meant to do this before I separated the two halves, but I forgot, but once the brass pins were installed, then alignment was assured and as I hadn't altered the drill press fence, then the hanging hole was still aligned with the pin holes. I didn't quite get the centre of gravity right, so the whole thing hangs with a bit of a tilt, but it is generally OK. I eased the edges of the holes with a 45 degree router cutter.






They are finished with a few coats of blonde shellac.


----------



## Steve Maskery

In use, I put one behind the other and bend down.






As the front strip eclipses the back strip, the white line of sycamore begins to disappear. If one end goes before the other, the workpiece is not flat and needs planing. 






When both ends disappear at the same time, then the surface is flat and true.











Winding strips can be used in the same way when gluing up a frame, to ensure that it, too, is properly flat.

Really, you do need to make yourself a pair. You'll wonder how you ever managed without them.


----------



## Halo Jones

This article is one of the best I have read on making winding sticks and you are posting it free on ukworkshop - thank you.

(Pssst. what happened to your business plan?!)

H.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Halo Jones":el0anfa4 said:


> This article is one of the best I have read on making winding sticks and you are posting it free on ukworkshop - thank you.


Thank you. Yes I really am that stupid.  Well I have to write and there is no-one to publish me here at the moment, although it will probably get published in Italy at some point.


Halo Jones":el0anfa4 said:


> (Pssst. what happened to your business plan?!)



It's coming along very very slowly.


----------



## Racers

Nice sticks Steve.

I have a pair one ABW and one Beech, I put centre marks in the middle (where else) so you can centre them on the work piece.
Beech dowel in the ABW and ABW dowel in the Beech one.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Pictures, Pete, Pictures!


----------



## brianhabby

Surely the winding sticks themselves (being wood) will move, won't they? Or am I missing something?

Brian


----------



## Steve Maskery

They are cut from the same piece, so they are, as near as dammit, identical. If one moves, the other moves, in the same way, by the same amount. 
It works.
S


----------



## John15

Fantastic Steve. Extremely well explained and photographed. 

John


----------



## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":eybshb63 said:


> They are cut from the same piece, so they are, as near as dammit, identical. If one moves, the other moves, in the same way, by the same amount.
> It works.
> S


Okay, thanks Steve.

regards

Brian


----------



## Steve Maskery

Although I've tried to hide it, there are enough pictures of my back garden for you to see that it is a tip. Horrible at the mo, it's just been a dumping ground. It makes Steptoe's back yard look like Versailles.

It is almost entirely topsoil and firewood.

Now that the patio is (sort of) finished I can build a log store. I found this on the Popular Mechanics site, which I quite like:






It's too high and appears to have no segregation for different batches of timber, but it is a start.

I have a few lengths of 4x2 and quite a bit of shiplap left over from the workshop build, so I'm going to use what I already have as much as possible.

I'm going to M&T the frame, so to start with there are quite a few mortices to cut






The feet have a bit of shape to them. Just because it is a firewood store doesn't mean it can't be a posh firewood store. Even in Kirkby-in-Ashfield. One has one's standards, one knows.






Then there are the corresponding tenons. This is my Ultimate Bandsaw tenon jig in action. Actually it is a very long time since I have used it. I've not done much ww at all over the last few years, and the few tenons I have cut I have done on my tablesaw with the Ultimate Tablesaw Tenon Jig. But some of these tenons are 4" long and so are too long for a 10" TS blade. And having a 2.1m length of wood upright over the TS is not exactly clever.






This is the setup from the operator's POV. I didn't realise, until I took this photo that it looks so complex! It isn't, I assure you, it's quite simple, actually. It's just that I'm using it in conjunction with my BS Fine adjuster, and the two together do make quite a structure.






I still have the tenons on the bottom ends of the uprights to do but life stopped play.


----------



## TFrench

Looking forward to seeing this section of the build, posh firewood store is one of my next big jobs!


----------



## monkeybiter

I think I've spotted a patch of dust on your work light in the last piccy. [Just ribbing]

It goes without saying that it is going to be good work, and I understand that a workshop is the sum of it's products/contents, but IMHO you could do to be starting [several] new threads because you're actually past the build, you are now into the enviable stage of using the workshop THAT YOU BUILT and making things in it. 

Celebrate the fact!


----------



## Bluekingfisher

Perhaps going for the worlds longest thread with anything wood related in it?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Perhaps you are right. This is about what I'm doing in the workshop rather than to the workshop. Maybe it's time to retire the thread. I'll ask the Mods to unstickificate it.
S


----------



## lurker

No! Leave it as it is.


----------



## Racers

+1 leave it as a sticky, and carry on with your projects Steve.

Pete


----------



## MattDenny

I agree - let's keep the longest thread going....


----------



## AES

+ another 1 here (but an index would now be useful)!

 

AES


----------



## kostello

Steve Maskery":11oens6g said:


> Perhaps you are right. This is about what I'm doing in the workshop rather than to the workshop. Maybe it's time to retire the thread. I'll ask the Mods to unstickificate it.
> S


Not until you get the doors built......


----------



## memzey

And we've had a workshop opening bash!


----------



## NickWelford

Or not until the official opening ceremony where we all turn up with cake.


----------



## NickWelford

Ha! Beat me to it, Memzey


----------



## Steve Maskery

NickWelford":27kcqtiz said:


> Or not until the official opening ceremony where we all turn up with cake.


But no dogs.
Cue the picture of a cute red setter...


----------



## Steve Maskery

I finished off the bottom tenons. The uprights are a bit long for cutting on the tablesaw, but my SCMS does have a depth stop. It's not as good as on a proper RAS, because I end up with a curved cut at the rear end. But that can be overcome by bringing the workpiece forward with a board behind it for support.







Then it is back to the bandsaw for some wedge slits and over to the bench to cut the short shoulders.






All the rails are to be notched for the rack and I decided to do this with my dado set. I don't use this very often, but these notches are a bit deep to do on the router table. So I set it up. it took AGES. I had to remove my blade and riving knife, then the arbor, install the long 5/8" one, then the stack. My stack has reducing rings from 30mm to 5/8" and I missed one which had interesting consequences for the first cut, but once I'd corrected that it was really rather smooth.

This is my setup:






Of course the stand-alone guard is positioned to cover the blade!I used the rip fence as a length stop (pulled right back, of course) and whichever mitre track gave me the best support.






After the cut, the saw needs to be restored to its former state. The dado set might be a pain but it does make very nice notches.






When gluing up, I was able to use my new winding sticks






As soon as it was glued up I glued in some wedges and trimmed them off.


----------



## UrbanSpaceman

Steve,

I thought that dado stacks were a big no-no, in this country at least?


----------



## Brentingby

UrbanSpaceman":2320ks3p said:


> Steve,
> 
> I thought that dado stacks were a big no-no, in this country at least?



Yes. I've heard they are instant death


----------



## Eric The Viking

Brentingby":6nmy4vxv said:


> Yes. I've heard they are instant death


Too right. In that close-up you can clearly see Steve's bionic right index finger, necessary after just looking too closely at a cardboard box containing a dado set in Harbour Freight earlier in the year.

It is impressive though - I certainly can't see the join, and as it's titanium, any run-in with another dado set certainly wouldn't end well (for the dado set), if the bottoms of Formula One cars are anything to go by.

I looked at their air tools in April, but I think I got away with it.

E.


----------



## monkeybiter

UrbanSpaceman":1w49p8ys said:


> Steve,
> 
> I thought that dado stacks were a big no-no, in this country at least?



Here's one of the MANY threads on the subject;-

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/dado-cutters-t445.html?hilit=dado stack


----------



## Steve Maskery

I did wonder...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Just to reiterate what I have long propounded upon...

Using a dado stack is not illegal.

Using an unguarded blade in a commercial workshop is illegal.
Using a blade in a commercial workshop which doesn't stop within 10 seconds of switching off is illegal.
You can do anything you like in your private workshop, no matter how stupid it is.

My saw still stops in just over 6 seconds and it is guarded. And mine is not a commercial workshop. And whilst I may still be more stupid than I used to be, I'm not quite at my stupidest ever.


----------



## Steve Maskery

The "rafters" are to be let in as housing joints. The easiest way to do this is with a track saw. That way, the two cuts are exactly in line.






I then used the track saw to cut out for the halving joints






A chisel sees to the waste.

The corresponding halves are cut on the SCMS











Incidentally I originally set out that angle by eye. It turns out that it is 30.00000 degrees.






So two are glued up and I expect to do the other two tomorrow. Ray is coming on Friday.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Just as an aside, when I did my last DVD I went to the HSE with my idea and had a lot of help from a gentleman whose name, regrettably, I cannot recall. But he confirmed everything I proposed as compliant. In that way I am able to claim to have written the definitive treatise on dado use in the UK ever produced in the history of mankind.

Not that I like to make big deal of it or anything.


----------



## lurker

As Steve says he can do what he damn well likes in his own home.

I get sick of the carp that gets peddled in the name of health and safety mainly by folks who have half heard a cock and bull story from "some bloke"
Even in a commercial setting Steve would be fine.
Things change a tad if he had employees but even then so long as you put into place adequate safety controls nothing is illegal.
The important thing is to understand how harms might arise and suitably control them.
Looks like Steve has done just that


----------



## Bm101

Regarding H&S, it's a good thing generally. Who want's too go deaf or blind at work? Or die from falling off a ladder. And I've known a few. Workmates that aren't here any more. Or can't work. Or who are brain dead. I can list you the names. Really. 
I'm no enemy of H&S. I am an enemy (in my workplace) of those who become so indoctrinated by it that reason fails. That you end up working less safely than you would if they weren't around. Thing is it breeds a type of middle (management) agent that ends up having to justify their job. 

That leads to problems in itself. "You have to wear a hi vis vest / Why I'm 23 storeys up, hanging from a rope? It gets tangled in my gear and its dangerous. / You have to wear a hi vis. Site Regulations / Ahhhhhhhhhgggh. *RAGE /Oh and Gloves that mean you will drop your tools and while we're at it, safety googles. /But .... but I'm cleaning windows.... /H&S you can't argue SOMEONE has to listen to meeeeee! I need to justify my joooob!

Having said that, H&S is generally in place to protect the ignorant and the most vulnerable in the work place. Steve is clearly neither nor in the workplace. 
While I'm at it please don't make another thread! It's one of the reasons I joined UKW! 

Regards as always.
Chris


----------



## Halo Jones

Would a hand saw and a chisel not have saved you a lot of fretting about HSE :roll: #-o 

I'll get my coat!

H.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes it would if I had anything like half-decent hand skills. There is a reason why I am known as Mr. Jig. It's because I need a bit of help with most tasks.


----------



## DennisCA

Steve Ramsey had an interesting viewpoint on this in a video he made on this earlier this year. He thought dado stacks where safer than a regular blade for X reasons.


----------



## Halo Jones

I enjoy hand tools and will always give it a go but I must admit that after hand chopping all the deep mortices in 2 large garden gates I promptly went out and bought a hollow chisel morticer for my next projects. I reckon it will cut the time in half for a project like that


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yesterday Ray came over. I marked out some blocks for cutting and then went down to the workshop whilst he filled the air with red dust. The blocks are too damp to sand properly, but even with just a good brushing it looks jolly good now.

Meanwhile I finished off the last two frames for the firewood store.







I'm going to use some of the remaining shiplap for the front and sides, but Ray pointed out that we have some long lengths of pallet which will do for the back. So we dismantled the two large pallets.











By three we were both frozen to the marrow, so we called it a day. I don't suppose Ray will be coming so often now, and certainly not before the New Year. I shall miss his visits.


----------



## Steve Maskery

No Ray this week but I've not been totally idle.

Yesterday I started building the structure. I used a couple of full lengths of shiplap top and bottom to tie the frames together, then infilled with strips froms the big pallets that the board materials came on.






I needed one-and-a-half lengths per run, so I staggered them to maximise strength. I was planning to put diagonal bracing in, but it really doesn't need it. All those piece have two nails at each post, so it's not going anywhere. I just about managed to get it upright without doing myself a mischief.






Then today I have clad the ends.






The racks for the logs are a piece of shiplap cut into three and laid into those notches. I did them as individual strips just for ease of handling.






So now it look like this.






TBH I'm a bit stymied now. I'm not quite sure how to do the roof. I could do with Ray coming and taking a look. He did say he would come and help with th roof, but he is busy now for a couple of weeks.

One thing I have realised is that the centre of gravity is quite far back. It would not take much to push it over backwards. Once it's in place against the fence that will not be a problem, especially when it is loaded with firewood, but right now it is bit unstable. I wish I'd extended the foot out a bit at the back, like I have done at the front. A couple of inches would make a lot of difference, think.


----------



## monkeybiter

You could sit something heavy on the wood rack for now, or nail on a temp. prop at the back or even an outrigger at the front.


----------



## Steve Maskery

That's a good idea. If it starts to get windy, I'll do just that.


----------



## Halo Jones

That's a big looking wood store. Are you planning on going off-grid!

I would also be tempted to partition off the middle two sections to allow you to have nicely contained sections and a good rotation of fresh and dried logs.


----------



## DennisCA

Oh I've seen larger... what I got in my backyard:
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7627/1678 ... d315_b.jpg

Not as messy anymore, a lot of post construction debris and stuff still around there.

And forums user heimlaga I think has like 10x the firewood and lumber I do.


----------



## CHJ

Halo Jones":23uf0b21 said:


> I would also be tempted to partition off the middle two sections to allow you to have nicely contained sections and a good rotation of fresh and dried logs.



Yes narrower vertical partitioning to keep a rolling sequence going comes into its own if you are drying green wood, the oldest and hopefully the driest is always on the bottom if you just keep adding to the whole wide stack.


All of no consequence though if you are filling it with all the shop off-cuts that are due generation in 2016.


----------



## Steve Maskery

You are both right, I must do that. In fact, the point of having 6 bays was exactly for that, I simply forgot about the separation inside...
Ooops.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I got a bit more done today.

I nailed up a length of shiplap across the top at the front. I've cocked up here. I should have made the whole thing 32mm shorter. I made the back the length of a board, but after I'd boarded the ends, its 32mm longer than a shiplap board, so I've had to use two boards with a join, which is not very efficient.

I then clamped a rafter in place so that I could mark the positions of the birds mouths.






I notched them out back at the workshop











Then I could nail the front board into the birds mouth






Finally I ripped up some 6x1 and nailed that up to provide the separation inside. Thanks for reminding me, guys.






Then rain stopped play. 

Ray said he would come over when I was ready to do the roof, but i don't suppose it will be this week. I shall know tomorrow evening.


----------



## Steve Maskery

This morning I installed a piece of membrane. It was a bit breezy but I managed.






English Version:

I have two roof laths left over from the build, and several pieces of 4x2, so I ripped the 4x2s down and put everything through the thicknesser.

American Version:

I have two roof laths left over from the build, and several pieces of 2x4, so I ripped the 2x4s down and put everything through the planer.

It was raining a bit even when I started and then it got too wet to work. But as the day has worn on the rain has died down and the wind has got up. The store was rocking a bit and I didn't like the look of it. So I took a couple of lengths of 4x2 and tried to attach them at the back as stays. I couldn't get them in, so I've screwed them in place from the front. They are acting as cantilevers rather than props, but I don't think the structure is going any place now.






I'm not sure that I have cut enough stock for all the laths, in fact I'm sure I haven't, but I want to cut only what I need, so I'll do the rest when Ray comes over. For now, just as long as the membrane is secure, I'm happy.


----------



## Woodchips2

Coming on well Steve, well done =D> 

You could get six bunks in there if you had unexpected people to stay over Christmas and it would stop it blowing away :lol: 

Regards Keith


----------



## Graham Orm

Are you putting doors on it Steve?


----------



## Droogs

Looking good Steve. Don't think I'd have the big log ramp though, maybe just keep the big ones at the bottom.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Very good.
No doors, no, but 3 lift-off covers. Ray just has green netting over the front of his, but I don't like the idea of it flapping about in the wind.


----------



## Alder

I am fascinated that you can get the membrane in this weather. 
Not only would not be able to put it on but I would have to install roofing sheets immediately if I had succeeded.
Russell


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well it was tacked down top and bottom and today I put up the rest of the laths up. In the wrong place. I did put on the bottom row of half-slates and it was only then that I realised I'd nailed on the laths in the wrong place. I'd measured from the wrong end. But by then the rain was making it too unpleasant to work, so I came in, disgusted with myself for being so careless.
Unfortunately although tomorrow is set to be fine, Ray has other plans 
S


----------



## brianhabby

Steve Maskery":2pm9mh4y said:


> so I came in, disgusted with myself for being so careless.


I seem to be making more & more stupid mistakes lately, I put them down to senior moments but very annoying all the same. Don't be too hard on yourself Steve, compare your mistakes with your successes and there's not much contest.

regards

Brian


----------



## CHJ

For your next trick:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03cr6hv


----------



## flying haggis

brianhabby":2ffoeu5z said:


> Steve Maskery":2ffoeu5z said:
> 
> 
> 
> so I came in, disgusted with myself for being so careless.
> 
> 
> 
> I seem to be making more & more stupid mistakes lately, I put them down to senior moments but very annoying all the same. Don't be too hard on yourself Steve, compare your mistakes with your successes and there's not much contest.
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian
Click to expand...

they are not mistakes, they are "design features"


----------



## Graham Orm

CHJ":rlrjhdml said:


> For your next trick:-
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03cr6hv



I like the look of those sledges with steering in the background. That would make a good project.


----------



## custard

Steve, what about a before and after photo taken from the same location to show the full extent of what you've achieved?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Hi Custard
That's a good idea but I'll do it when the "garden" looks a bit less like Steptoe's yard.

I've had a go at doing the roof. Finished it today. It is a lot messier than Ray's work, but it is all my own work. When you consider what I was like a year ago, I'm fairly pleased with myself. It wouldn't do for the workshop, but for a log store, it's fine. Actually I shall never see it, it's the neighbours who will have to go tut-tut at it. It's actually quite difficult to keep everything square and straight!







The "mess" is just cement dust, a good rain will wash it away.

The only problem now is that the whole structure is too heavy to shift into place. I need another pair of hands to drag it up to the fence.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've done the doors for the kitchen corner.

The frames are 22mm, the panels 6mm.

I'm using a combination cutter from Axminster (courtesy Eric the Viking - when I asked if I could borrow it I didn't realise that it was brand new, still in its wax!). The moulding is machined using the bottom part of the profile:
















The rails have to be longer than they appear by twice the depth of the panel groove, in this case 19mm.






The complementary profile on the ends of the rails is cut from the upper part of the profile, but rather than lowering the cutter, I prefer to raise the workpiece. That way I know it is right and I can go back if I make a mistake and have to cut a replacement component. This sled is exactly 10mm thick and the fence on it is flat on one side and moulded on the other, so my workpiece is properly supported against spelching whichever way round it is presented.











I have to be careful not to poke it in too far before the bearing engages, otherwise I get a little gap I have to fill with dust and glue.


----------



## Steve Maskery

When clamping up, I made sure that the frames were not in wind, using my posh winding sticks.











When cleaned up the joint is invisible.






To drill the holes I cut a 128mm spacer so that I can cut both handle holes with one stop position











It took me ages to get them hung right, and the bottom centre door doesn't quite close. I don't understand why yet, it might be the hinge. I'd never get a job as a kitchen fitter, that's for sure. 

All the hinges, the sink itself and the worktop are all second-hand. The handles were a fiver for 10 in a Screwfix clearance, the cabinets are cheapies from B&Q, the tap was the most expensive single item, £60 from Screwfix. But I think I've done the whole corner for about £150.

I shall paint it all blue to match the front door (in the fullness of time...)


----------



## doctor Bob

Steve Maskery":3rulujri said:


> When clamping up, I made sure that the frames were not in wind, using my posh winding sticks.
> 
> It took me ages to get them hung right, and the bottom centre door doesn't quite close. I don't understand why yet, it might be the hinge. I'd never get a job as a kitchen fitter, that's for sure.



or as a maker, I'd shoot my guys if they started getting out winding sticks, flat bench + sash cramps. Apart from that, all looking good


----------



## Steve Maskery

You are right Bob, I know.
I appear to have forgotten to post the most important picture - Oops! Here it is.


----------



## doctor Bob

Is that your little tea and coffee area in the workshop, looks posh. Are you going to have a bash at some point?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Yes Bob, that has always been my intention. Maybe even two, a builders bash for all those who helped and a general bash for anyone else who would like to visit. 
I ought to organise dates, but I have one or two other things on my mind just at the moment.


----------



## monkeybiter

Mrs. monkeybiter says 'where's your fridge?', well I'm not a hot drink fan [with milk etc,] but it would be useful for keeping your Strongbow optimal..


----------



## Steve Maskery

I did think of getting one of those little tabletop jobbies, for my superglue, you understand.
There is a tin of Oxo cubes in the drawer.
I wanted water mainly so that I can sort out my contact lenses when they fall out, which they do with monotonous regularity.
S


----------



## Racers

So the superglue in the fridge is for your contact lenses then Steve?

 

Pete


----------



## sploo

monkeybiter":wqeoxrdn said:


> Mrs. monkeybiter says 'where's your fridge?', well I'm not a hot drink fan [with milk etc,] but it would be useful for keeping your Strongbow optimal..


Strongbow optimal.

Strongbow. Optimal.

"Strongbow".... "optimal"...

No. Sorry. I just don't understand. Isn't that like saying "syphilis great", or "botulism fantastic"? :wink:


----------



## Racers

If you chill it enough you can't taste it.

Pete


----------



## sploo

Racers":vydebl2j said:


> If you chill it enough you can't taste it.
> 
> Pete


Believe it or not that's a standard practice in the industry - bad alcohol (poor quality lagers, "chav" ciders) taste _really_ bad if they're even a fraction too warm, so the solution is to overchill them, and sell the idea to the public that a superchilled pint of dog urine is a good thing.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Have we really got so off topic so very quickly?


----------



## sploo

Steve Maskery":13wcf5hk said:


> Have we really got so off topic so very quickly?


Sorry Steve. Just chuck some Leffe in the fridge and all will be well :wink:


----------



## Steve Maskery

Well it is the worst paint job you ever did see, but the kitchen corner is finished.







Those of you who have visited my house will know that the first thing you see is a very scruffy office where you might well expect to see a dining room. But I've actually made a start on doing up the house itself. The spare bedroom now has a dado power rail and half of it is painted. When that is done (tomorrow, if I can shift my lazy bum) I can empty my own bedroom and do that up whereupon I can start to think of moving my office upstairs and start to think of making my house into a home again.


----------



## paulm

Looks good Steve 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Benchwayze

Cider? We used to call Scrumpy, Coffin Varnish in the Andrew... I tried it... Once, and I knew why the name! :shock:

Steve, I would certainly like to see your new shop, but the problem is the Doctors have stopped me driving for a while; something about a suspected 'mini-stroke'. Can't see it myself, but I suspect when I tell my Insurance Company, I will have to give up driving anyway, on the grounds of cost!


----------



## woodshavings

Hi John,
The no driving normally only last for 30 days and not notifiable to the DVLA.
Your TIA is "just" a warning, not a sentence!!
John E


----------



## Benchwayze

John, 

My 'TIA's were remarkably like attacks of 'Ocular Migraine'. I've had them for years, but previously the effects were confined to a slight disturbance of vision; like looking through a cracked window pane. There is plenty of warning, and they last about 15 - 20 minutes, so if an attack comes upon me whilst driving, I have plenty of time to stop, and allow it to pass over. 

In the hospital though there were also effects of disturbed speech, hearing and tingling in the fingers, all of which passed off with no effects whatsoever. I was told that this can happen with the migraines, and is not dangerous, and very temporary. So I am inclined to think the 'diagnoses' of TIA were a case of better safe than sorry.

Either way my reflexes were all normal, and the scans could find no evidence of a bleed in the brain. (They actually found a brain, which was maybe a surprise to me!) 

Thanks for the heads up John. I will have a word with my doctor, when the 30 days are up. I might even get me off this horrible Cloppydogrel blood thinner. (Spelling!)

So maybe I can look forward to some visits here and there, and can carry on as normal! 

Cheers 
John


----------



## Marathon

Hi Steve
Just joined UKW. Why not keep the RSJ and use it a support for a 'trundle bock' to move stuff about the workshop ?

regards :roll:


----------



## Steve Maskery

You may remember that I originally made a couple of temporary doors to fill the large opening on the left of the building. They are just 4x2s, skinned with 12mm OSB. They've done their job, but are as ugly as sin. So it's time to do the job properly.

I can make them any thickness I want, as the door stops are just planted on and are easily removed. The existing fix is about 65mm thick, and allows for a bit of insulation between the skins. However, if I started with 3" timber and prepped that up, I can foresee some potential problems...

My P/T is a Kity. It's a decent hobby machine, but you couldn't really call it a professional one, the beds are relatively short. This makes planing long boards flat a bit of a challenge. Secondly, even if I did get them flat today, I doubt if they'd still be flat tomorrow. So I have decided to laminate two pieces together, like Glulam. It won't help with the first problem, but it should definitely help with the other.

So a couple of weeks ago I went to the timber yard and bought some wood. I've made a door for Ray's barn, and I'll post some pics of that when we get round to hanging it, but now I have the opportunity to build mine.

I'd expected to get 10" boards, but 9" were the widest they had. It's fine actually. Ripped down, even the boards that were cupped became quite satisfactorily flat and straight.





It goes to show the importance of having a riving knife. This kerf closed up completely.





Another advantage of laminating is that if a board has one clear face and one with knots, the clear faces can go to the outside.

I'm using Cascamite for the glue-up. It is strong, doesn't creep, totally waterproof and has a long open time. I used to have a nice little set of electronic scales which were ideal for weighing out Cascamite, but it's gone, so I'm measuring out by volume, my unit being the Eggcup. 3.5 Es of powder to 1 E of water. It's just the right amount to glue one stile. In this picture, there is a stack of 6 boards, but only the centre two are glued, the others are just acting as pressure pads. The thicker the sandwich, the fewer clamps I need and the more evenly the pressure is spread through the joint.






So I have a few days of gluing up stock before I can get round to doing any actual joinery, but it should make for a topnotch job.


----------



## monkeybiter

Excellent way to resume the thread! I'm watching this keenly, I made the same 'postponed doors' decision a few years ago!

I can see the sun trying to get into your workshop past the old doors in pic no.1, why not throw them open. Mine are smaller but IMHO it still makes for a nicer workshop experience.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I tried to open them but there is a pile of timber stacked outside, preventing me from doing so. I could open them enough to measure the thickness though, but not the whole way.


----------



## monkeybiter

I would highly recommend shifting the timber before the summer [such as it is] is out, I find it very beneficial to my mood, especially with these longer light evenings.


----------



## Racers

If you need a hand come hanging time give me a shout Steve.

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thanks Pete, I'll take you up on that.
Yesterday I machined up the blanks. They've finished at 66mm thick. That will allow for 40mm insulation, but will also mean that each one is 50% heavier than the one I've just made for Ray. That one I could just about manhandle on my own, I think I shall struggle with these. One stile in particular weighs a ton, it's a lot more resinous than the other three.
I hope I don't regret this.


----------



## Racers

Steve Maskery":1qj3or48 said:


> Thanks Pete, I'll take you up on that.
> . One stile in particular weighs a ton, it's a lot more resinous than the other three.
> I hope I don't regret this.



Sounds like one for the bottom of the door!

Pete


----------



## lurker

Racers":2upwq7eh said:


> If you need a hand come hanging time give me a shout Steve.
> 
> Pete



I will try to get too
Have been meaning to visit


----------



## Steve Maskery

The more the merrier.
Bring your crane...


----------



## Racers

I have a Heron, will that do?

Pete


----------



## lurker

Steve Maskery":306tzbjg said:


> The more the merrier.
> Bring your crane...



I can bring my mates Derrick and Jack but my German friend Hoist can't make it


----------



## flying haggis

this was parked near to where I live, I will see if the driver has a spare half hour to lift your doors!!!


----------



## Woodchips2

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

That is one BIG crane!

Regards Keith


----------



## Steve Maskery

I've just got Pete's heron joke.

After gluing up the members, there was quite a bit of planing to do, but they have stayed pretty straight and true. Not perfect, but not bad either.

So I marked them all at the same time and cut them to length. 




I rather wish I'd left some horns on but I didn't. I was quite shocked to find that one stile was only just long enough. Less than a mm to trim. I thought I'd left several inches.

Then it was time to pull out the mortiser and cut 28 mortices. The top and bottom mortices are twinned because of the thickness, the centre rail needs just one.

I looked up mortising in Ellis, just to see what he said, as I don't do big stuff like this very often. He doesn't say much, but he obviously doesn't like them:

"Double tenons [I know them as twins] should be looked upon as a necessary evil and be sparingly employed, as two thin tenons are not equal in strength to one thick one of corresponding substance." Hmm. I really think I don't agree with that at all. In a thick door, the joint becomes more evenly distributed, the surface area for glue is doubled and the beam strength is unaltered. Methinks he is mistaken.

However, it is true that they are more of a challenge, as not only does each tenon have to fit its own mortice well, but they have to be exactly the same distance apart as the mortices, or else each one fouls the entry of the other.

So to handle that I don't alter the setting of the morticer itself, I simply cut one mortice






and then insert a 25mm spacer behind the workpiece to cut its twin






The bottom rail has two pairs






Finally, each one was set on a wedge to cut the flares for the wedges






This bit was a pain actually, as there was a lot of faffing about with that roller stand. I think it would have been better to have just chopped out the flares with my 1/2" mortice chisel and a mallet. I still have the mallet...

The next job will be to cut the tenons.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Actually the next job will be to kick myself up the bottom. I've made a cake this evening, and just gone to see if it was done. The oven is empty and the cake tin is still sitting on the worktop, waiting to be put in the oven...


Edit: I've just noticed that this is the 2000th reply in this thread...


----------



## Chrispy

Fruit cake?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Rhubarb and ginger, a 90 minute job.


----------



## n0legs

Chrispy":3bv16nt4 said:


> Fruit cake?




That's a bit mean. 
I know he's odd, but he's harmless :lol:


----------



## Eric The Viking

n0legs":2dxibfn7 said:


> Chrispy":2dxibfn7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Fruit cake?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's a bit mean.
> I know he's odd, but he's harmless :lol:
Click to expand...


Mostly harmless. I'm not eating raw cake mix for anyone *

E.

*OK - might lick the spoon I suppose.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Having completed the mortices, the next job is to cut the corresponding tenons.

The rails are a bit big to be held in place just by a little toggle clamp, so I used a couple of trigger clamps to be on the secure side.







The tenons need to be longer than my saw can manage, so there is a bit of hand work to do.






The jig automatically takes into account the thickness of the kerf of the blade. The result is a perfect tenon that doesn't need any fettling. This is the centre rail, leaving a 12mm setback for the T&G cladding. There is 0.15mm difference in setback on each side 






For the twin tenons there are four cuts that need to be made in exactly the right place. The first is made with the jig closed






The spacer fits my mortice exactly, so too will the first tenon






Remember that spacer I used when cutting the twin mortices? Well I use the same spacer to move the top carriage over by exactly the same amount, in order to cut the second tenon











Again the tenons need to be lengthened, so the waste between the them is bandsawn out and cleaned out with a chisel, but the end result is this:






Now is that good or is that good?

Five joints down, seven to go.


----------



## Baldhead

They don't call you Mr Jig cos your a good dancer! Well done Steve.

Stew


----------



## Steve Maskery

Thank you. Though I do have a confession to make. I set the workpiece up back to front. The result was that I cut into the jig itself and caught the blade with a steel lock nut which keeps one of the nylon runners in place. I've chipped a few teeth. I'm particularly annoyed as it was a brand new blade, I've only ripped a few dozen metres with it. Entirely preventable and stupid.


----------



## monkeybiter

Out of practise?


----------



## Steve Maskery

monkeybiter":1ddqe9uc said:


> Out of practise?



Definitely. Some days I feel like a beginner again.

S


----------



## n0legs

Steve Maskery":1f6ex2em said:


> monkeybiter":1f6ex2em said:
> 
> 
> 
> Out of practise?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely. Some days I feel like a beginner again.
> 
> S
Click to expand...



We all have those days my friend  

Looking good =D>


----------



## Baldhead

Some of us have nothing but bad days!   

Stew


----------



## Steve Maskery

Today I have assembled both doors, on my own, and it has been the most physical work I have done for ages, I've had sweat dripping off my nose. I hope you aren't eating your tea. Really hard work. The problen is that while all the joints went together snugly when dry, once they get a bit wet with glue the fibres swell enough to make it tight. Very tight. Especially where I have double twin tenons, that's a lot of surface area (which is the whole point of the joint, of course) to grab.

But I am getting a bit ahead of myself.

The first job was to make a wedgeboard. Using the same wedge that I used for the mortices as a guide, I cut a triangular notch in a piece of scrap. Note that I am not sliding the workpiece up the wedge, just using the wedge as a spacer to keep the board at the right angle whilst I push them both forward.






Then, after thicknessing a board to the right size and cross-cutting it to make short, wide pieces, I can cut wedges which are exactly the same angle as the flares of the mortice. I flip the workpiece between each cut to keep the grain straight.











This was the point when it started to get difficult. I'm really glad I was using Cascamite and not PVA. It took me ages, and with all my strength, to get these doors assembled. But eventually I managed.






The doors are both nice and planar






and there is less than 2mm difference in the diagonals. I can live with that.


----------



## monkeybiter

Are your wedges between the tenons and the mortice walls, tightening the joint? Or are they in a notch in the tenon, spreading the tenon in the mortice?

I only ask because it looks like the former, but I've only ever heard of the latter [shows what I know!].


----------



## Steve Maskery

They are the former, MB.
You can do either. For Ray's doors I did the latter. Don't ask me for a Why?, because I don't have a Because.
The result is pretty much the same for either. Because the edge of the tenon is face-grain, and modern glues are stronger than the wood they bond, the tenon becomes fan-shaped in both cases.
If this door ever comes apart, I shall give up woodwork and take up knitting.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I did read somewhere (but I can't remember where) that the wedges should always be down the outside of the tenon, as otherwise you risk either breaking the side off the tenon (which weakens it) or running a split into the rail. I had always assumed them to be best in a cut.


----------



## Steve Maskery

Running them into a slit is fine, but it is good practice to drill a stop hole to prevent that from happening.
S


----------



## Steve Maskery

Although the existing doors were a temporary fix, I did use the proper hinges. These are high quality ball-bearing butts. I transferred their positions from the frame to the doors. A spacer underneath the rod gives me the clearance I need (the spacer fell out for this photo, but you can see that it is there), then cut out the hinge recesses with router and chisel.











Then it was a case of cutting some cladding and giving each piece a coat of paint, especially the groove and tongue.






So now they are ready for hanging, which is happening on Sunday, all being well. I've roped in Ray, Racers and Lurker, so we should have enough muscle. I've been lugging these around on my own and they are heavy, but two people holding and two people screwing should be a doddle... Usual inducements will be on offer.

I need to get some panel pins from Screwfix before then. They do some sheradised ones which we used on Ray's, and they were very good. I've already bought some bolts so we should be good to go.


----------



## lurker

Press ganged is the word you are looking for


----------



## AES

Yeah lurker, but you do get the chance to inspect his natty little pink sweatband close up :roll: 

AES


----------



## Eric The Viking

lurker":hlll135k said:


> Press ganged is the word you are looking for


Yes I can see that. After all he's threatened you with hanging...


----------



## Steve Maskery

Ach, stop whinging, you volunteered. At the very least you didn't take one step back.
Any time after 9.30 gents, please. See you Sunday.


----------



## Brentingby

I wish I could be there to watch but I hear me mum calling me already.  Will there be video?


----------



## Steve Maskery

Good idea. I'll stand around with a camera whilst the others sweat and strain with the doors. I don't see a problem with that!


----------



## CHJ

Steve Maskery":br3yt5wp said:


> Good idea. I'll stand around with a camera whilst the others sweat and strain with the doors. I don't see a problem with that!



I see, and I suppose it will be edited to show it was the two screwing-up not the marker-outer that caused that 2mm gap difference.


Steve Maskery":br3yt5wp said:


> .... ., but two people holding and two people screwing should be a doddle... ..


----------



## Racers

See you Sunday Steve.

Pete


----------



## lurker

Steve Maskery":1yn9oqd1 said:


> Good idea. I'll stand around with a camera whilst the others sweat and strain with the doors. I don't see a problem with that!



Knowing how Pete tends to take a "supervisory role" it looks like just Me & Ray then :lol: 
I have my braces in standby but no sweat bands.


----------



## Racers

O/K Jim will do :wink: 

Pete


----------



## Steve Maskery

Funny sort of day.

You will remember that the temporary doors look like this:







Ray arrived with mega-cake from Chris. Now Chris does a lot of baking, but this was delish even by her standards, raspberry and yoghurt cake






Then Jim Lurker turned up and then Pete. Both were in an argumentative mood. Pete was muttering about the changed one-way system and complaining about how he'd had to come via Sheffield, and how he wasn't used to having a hangover. We'll get more to the arguing later.

So we took one door off and removed the hinges.






The first door needed hardly any fitting. The hinge mortices needed a bit of adjustment, and a couple of mil off the top corner, but that was about it. This, however, cuased a couple of arguments...

Pete: These mortices are on the wrong face.
Steve: No they're not.
P: Yes they are.
S: No they're not
P: Yes they are.
S: No they're not
P: Yes they are.
S: No they're not
P: Ah. No they're not. I've been drinking.

And, when we were fitting the hinges to the door...

Jim: These hinges are on upside down.
Steve: No they're not.
J: Yes they are.
S: No they're not.
J: Yes they are.
S: No they're not.
J: Yes they are.
S: No they're not.
J: Yes they are. Ah, no they're not.

Cantankerous old pippers, the pair of them.

But once we'd established that all was well the first door went in easily











The second door was more problematic, as the frame is a bit bowed outwards, so that involved a bit of work with a plane and then adjusting the depth of the hinge mortice. Also the cill is bowed upwards a bit, so we had to trim this door quite a bit more than the first.

This is Pete's first time with a TS55







When that was up, it was time to fit the cladding. I'd already prepped it all, but it was a bit tight when I did it, I expected to have to trim them. As it was, it's been so hot these past few days that they had shrunk and we had some gaps to even out. But some were too long now that we had trimmed the door. We couldn't find the pencil to mark them. We knew we'd had it, but where was it.? In Jim's pocket, that's where, along with the drill bit we couldn't find earlier and the screwdriver bit we couldn't find later. If he comes round to yours, nail everything down.
















Finally it was time for the cap strips, one on the outside and one on the inside.






Then Ray had to go, but I pressed Pete and Jim into staying. Pete fitted the hardware for me and Jim tried to see what else he could get into his pockets. After they'd gone (I frisked Jim, just to be on the safe side) I found he'd left his hat and I'd forgotten to give Pete a chisel for him to deal with for me. Hey ho.


----------



## Steve Maskery

I carried on filling nail holes and painting and now it looks like this.











I still have the inside to finish.

Even if I say so myself, I think it looks blooming marvelous. Thank you all three for your hard work today. It's very much appreciated.

I'm absolutely knackered, and would like to curl up with a bottle of wine, but instead I've got to be all clever as I've signed up for a pub quiz team. Got to go.


----------



## Racers

I remembered the chisel about half way home but the thought of that one way system was too much.

It looks great now those doors are on, now get that garden sorted! :wink:  

Pete


----------



## monkeybiter

That's looking a lot better! You're right to be chuffed. 

I like the hefty overhang on the roof, I think they're worth their weight in gold.


----------



## lurker

Steves workshop contains virtually the whole range of festool kit and he has one bluddy pencil!


----------



## lurker

monkeybiter":32qgrtqj said:


> That's looking a lot better! You're right to be chuffed.
> 
> I like the hefty overhang on the roof, I think they're worth their weight in gold.



It worked well as a sun shade today


----------



## flying haggis

Steve, you now need some fake hinges and diamonds to make the double doors look as happy as the small shutters :lol:


----------



## TFrench

Everyone knows what to buy Steve for Christmas now at least!


----------



## Racers

I don't think he can't wait until Christmas the poor pencil is only about 2" long :shock: 

Pete


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Made the window boxes yet?


----------



## lurker

Racers":1k1ct2vs said:


> I don't think he can't wait until Christmas the poor pencil is only about 2" long :shock:
> 
> Pete



I can confirm it is pocket size


----------



## Steve Maskery

Although I might have put quite a lot of effort into presenting myself to the world as an expert on the bandsaw, I am ashamed to say that my own machine has been languishing somewhat in recent years. It was in a barn for a couple of years, then moved here and put in a log cabin and covered with other junk, then wheeled down the garden into my workshop a year or more ago. I've not touched it since, not from a maintenance point of view, anyway. It still had the same blade on it as I used when I was in my old workshop and the barn conditions haven't done it or the MDF fine-adjuster fence any favours.

So yesterday I stripped it down, cleaned the bearings, reassembled it all and fitted a new blade. I could telll the difference from the sound it made. I found an offcut of my door stiles and resawed it. It was only 8" or so long, but it was over 4" deep. Using my digital verniers I measured it all round, Along its edges, top and bottom. The only figure to change was the SECOND DECIMAL PLACE. In millimetres. Did I feel smug? Just a bit. 

I know, I know. No pictures, it never happened. But it did.

So bouyed by doing something quite well for a change, I decided I'd finish the doors today.

Ray had removed a skin from each of the temporary doors for me, so getting the old insulation out was easy. It was a tad thick for the new ones so every piece has to be ripped. I'll grant you that I could have done this without fettling by BS first...






The pieces were arrange brickwise.











I also cut thinner pieces to make up the thickness over the braces. I thought I'd taken a photo of that, but it would appear that I didn't. Sorry about that.

The cladding was already prepped, so that went on easily.






One down, one to go.

After punching and filling the nail holes, and giving it all a second coat of paint, I have this.






I've also repositioned the cabin hooks on the outside and fitted the rebates. The frame needs to be painted white and there is some touching up to do on the grey outside, where the cabin hooks were before. I also need to fit a bar on the inside. I'll do that tomorrow, but the doors themselves are finished, and I'm very pleased with them.

The only problem is that I forgot how messy the polystyrene is. It gets everywhere. I've cleaned up the workshop pretty well, but my clothes, my hairy arms, my hair and, increasingly, my house, are all covered in little, tiny, sticky white beads of polystyrene.


----------



## vormstudio

Very nice build!


----------



## sphinx

Wow - just finished reading this entire thread from start to here and I'm genuinely floored by all the excellent work that has gone into this.

For someone who is only now discovering the joy of woodworking this is very inspirational. Not only because of what was achieved but also because each step of the way where you have made mistakes or thought of a better way to do it, you have put effort in to describe it. A great detailed learning read for me and an awesome man-cave for you.

hope you get many years of happiness out of it! =D> 

Now to begin my own search for a Ray should i need one...


----------



## JR147

So I've just finished reading this through from the start - it's been an addictive read over the last few days. It's got it all, sex (well, the odd date here and there), drugs (plenty of ibruprofen by the sounds of it) and rock and roll (folk music but close enough). Given that the BBC are about to have a primetime slot empty soon, I'm sure there'll be in touch to turn it into a TV programme (actually if Channel 4 get interested you could benefit from a bidding war).

The workshop and all the surrounding bits and pieces look fantastic, and its been hugely positive seeing how its all come together including all the ups and downs, as well as all the support from people throughout.

Hopefully a few more Workshop Essentials will be on the way soon


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## Steve Maskery

Sphinx and JR
Thank you both very much indeed. It has indeed been a rollercoaster. Although it not totally finished ( the two gable walls need painting) the build is otherwise finished and I love it. I can't really believe it's mine TBH, and it wouldn't be if it had not been for the support of friends. Especially Ray, of course, but not only him.
I was mentally ill when I started this, and I'm not sure at what point one is "cured", but I do know that if I had been properly sane I would not have embarked on this, so there is some silver lining in every bonkers cloud. Now the challenge is to use it profitably. I have to survive seven years and I don't have seven years of piggy bank...
If only I could transport everything from Kirkby-in-Ashfield to Ambridge I'd be a lot happier (although the crime rate in Ambridge seems to be statistically somewhat above average these days, nearly as bad as KIA...).


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## lurker

Steve Maskery":sy7r92xa said:


> Sphinx and JR
> Thank you both very much indeed. It has indeed been a rollercoaster. Although it not totally finished ( the two gable walls need painting) the build is otherwise finished and I love it. I can't really believe it's mine TBH, and it wouldn't be if it had not been for the support of friends. Especially Ray, of course, but not only him.
> I was mentally ill when I started this, and I'm not sure at what point one is "cured", but I do know that if I had been properly sane I would not have embarked on this, so there is some silver lining in every bonkers cloud. Now the challenge is to use it profitably. I have to survive seven years and I don't have seven years of piggy bank...
> If only I could transport everything from Kirkby-in-Ashfield to Ambridge I'd be a lot happier (although the crime rate in Ambridge seems to be statistically somewhat above average these days, nearly as bad as KIA...).



Steve,
Knowing how you were at the start and how you are now. "Ray" should be available on the National Health.


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## Steve Maskery

This view count is getting a bit exciting....


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## Racers

Wow that's a lot of views.

Pete


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## Brentingby

What a difference from the first picture in the first post!

Brilliant job, Steve.


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## Steve Maskery

A quarter of a million views! Whoo-hoo!
Thank you all very much.
S


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## LarryS.

Congratulations! 

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk


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## pollys13

Being a kindly bloke, if I was close by I'd be happy to come over and help you out. I have stuff like concrete breaker Kango, scaffold tower a strong back. 
Looks like a nice space you have to work with.


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## Steve Maskery

It's a bit late now mate! 
But thank you for the kindly thought
Actually, a scaffolding tower would still be useful, I've not got round to finishing the outside gable walls. It should have been done this "summer" but we didn't have one until late August, by which time I was engaged on another domestic project. I suspect it will have to wait until next year now. Where does the time go?
It is indeed a nice space. I'm not the tidiest of workers, and I haven't organised the interior as well as it can be, but at the mo I am making a roomful of wainscotting and thoroughly enjoying it. I keep catching myself smiling at the pleasure so I think that means I am happy.. It's a nice feeling.


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## monkeybiter

Any chance of a wainscoting WIP thread? It's on mu todo list, stairs first as a trial then if all ok I'll do the living room.

It's not your workshop that's getting the wainscoting is it?


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## lurker

Yeh. Let's see a wip


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## bucephalus

Yes please +1 for a wainscotting WIP


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## lurker

The forum has spoken.
Get cracking!


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## monkeybiter

Your a bit late Mr. lurker.


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## lee celtic

Epic.. really Epic..

Well done Sir you filled up my Sunday with a good read. I came off a ladder many years ago and damaged my back so I always have Sunday off to rest it before work on Monday, your build has been the best book I've read in years thank you.. :-D


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## angelboy

As always Steve, this thread is a monster (138 pages!!!!!! Wow!) - so much so that I think it needs a contents page.

I'm off now to try and find which page your roof detailing is on......


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## Steve Maskery

The tiling starts on p41.
I have a number of tiles left over if they are of any interest to you. Ray can't count...


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## Noel

Steve Maskery":23ek7j3l said:


> I need to get some panel pins from Screwfix before then. They do some sheradised ones which we used on Ray's, and they were very good. I've already bought some bolts so we should be good to go.



Had to look up "Sharadised", invented by metallurgist Mr Sherard Osborn Cowper-Coles (son of naval inventor Cowper Phipps Coles) in 1900.
So, galvanised + zinc nails. Everyday is a school day.

All looking well Steve.


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## Steve Maskery

Wake up at the back there! 

You may remember that the outside was left looking like this:





or rather, after we had grouted it, like this





Well that was November 2015. Last year, if you recall, summer didn't start until August and I was firing on only 3 cylinders, so nothing really got done, especially as I don't see the sides very often, it's my neighbours who have to put up with it.

But I didn't want it to go through another winter with no paint, so a week or two ago I went over Ray's and borrowed his scaffolding. It used to be his Dad's, so goodness knows how old it is.

The first thing I tried to do was smooth the grout. I assumed it would sand out, but it is like granite. An angle grinder might do it, but a sander certainly won't. So unfortunately, close-up it is not very pretty, texture-wise. But it is what it is.

The other problem is that this is a timber building that moves, and grout doesn't take movement very well. A lot of the grout has cracked and some of it has fallen out altogether. So I've had to rake out what I can and caulk it instead. I should have done that in the first place, I think.

So on Saturday I assembled the scaffolding (myself) and painted the RH wall (myself), then we had some rain, but yesterday and today I have painted the LH wall. No Ray, no mates, I did it on my own. The hardest part was moving the scaffolding around, TBH. The very fact that I felt I could even attempt it is a measure of how much better I feel these days. 3.99 cylinders, at least.

And to prove it










As you can see, I still don't exactly relish being up there.

So this is what it looks like now











If I'm honest it really needs a third coat, but I've had enough. It's not a dining room ceiling. And anyway I've run out of paint.

Looking at those photos now makes me wonder why I didn't stagger the cempanel boards, but heigh-ho, that's the way it is.

This might actually be The End.


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## monkeybiter

The selfies [pics 3 & 4] look like your having some sort of blanched brain matter eruption!


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## lurker

"This might actually be The End."

No! 
Not until you post a photo from the house back door showing a view that could grace "Homes and Garden"


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## SammyQ

Nice one Steve. Despite climbing mountains all my life and scrambling around on wee ledges with 'pronounced exposure' as I did so, I found age ( and declining eyesight?) has made even modest elevations slightly trickier and needing more respect. 

Onwards and upwards!

Sam.


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## Racers

Nicely done Steve, good to hear you are feeling better.

Pete


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## Claymore

Its looking superb Steve.......did you ever get planning permission? 9-) 
Will you be making some more videos/dvds once its all finished?
Brian


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