# How would you do it?



## Lord Nibbo (22 Apr 2007)

I have been asked to make a coffee table out of oak for my neighbour using this design







Although it will be similar in length & height, it will only be about half the depth of the one in the pic.

How would you fit the legs? bearing in mind there are no rails to add strength and from this pic





not much of a glue area. So how would you do it?


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## Anonymous (22 Apr 2007)

With that design, I would have to break my golden rule and use the hated mechanical fixings. Maybe some form of bolting arrangement in the way beds are held together ( a threaded section embeddded into the actual leg to receive the bolt that is buried into the table underside) or pocket screws into both faces attached to the top;, and some good strong glue.

other option, that I like more but may not be strong enough, is to use loose tenons into one of the face


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## Lord Nibbo (22 Apr 2007)

Tony":2l32hx6i said:


> pocket screws into both faces attached to the top;, and some good strong glue.



I never thought of pocket screws, good thought Tony.  

You obviously saw the problem as I did, the use of tennons or dowels on the two faces are impossible unless they are cut at 45 deg towards the centre of the table.

Given the top is quite thick what about using biscuits maybe two on each face much like a double tennon and adding two pocket screws for reinforcement on each face?

Given some more thoughts, I could do it this way
Here is an xray view using sketchup


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## Chris Knight (22 Apr 2007)

The same question has been discussed here before but I can't find it at the moment  

My suggested solution to avoid hardware is a Maloof joint (like a fat tongue and groove or a combination of that and dowels

Ah, Here is the previous discussion https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 163#158163


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## Steve Maskery (22 Apr 2007)

Do you know how the one in the picture is made? Is there anything visible underneath?

I'd rout a pocket in the underside, at 45deg to the corner (the thick top will make that feasible). The legs are laminated from four sections, so I'd bury a nut in the assemble at 45 deg, then use a length of all-thread to pull the two together.

HTH
Steve


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## Lord Nibbo (22 Apr 2007)

Steve Maskery":2iiiccgt said:


> Do you know how the one in the picture is made? Is there anything visible underneath?
> Steve




I've scoured the internet looking for better pics of the table, the ones in the first post are the only ones I could find.  

Have you seen the xray pic I've added?
This one





No bolts just a fillet of oak slotted in at 45deg


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## Steve Maskery (22 Apr 2007)

The problem I see with that, LN, is the short grain above the fillet. If the table gets dragged across the carpet, or kicked, it could easily give.

It's neat though.

I think Chris's idea of the Maloof joint is better, but it's still not very robust in the dragging scenario. In a maloof chair the joint is in the centre of the leg length, not right up at the end, and is subject to different forces. Might be worth making a mock-up, though, and testing it.

S


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## Lord Nibbo (22 Apr 2007)

Steve Maskery":184r7xip said:


> The problem I see with that, LN, is the short grain above the fillet. If the table gets dragged across the carpet, or kicked, it could easily give.
> 
> It's neat though.
> 
> S



I suppose I could lower the fillet flush with the underside of the top exposing the fillet, that would add more meat to the leg above the fillet. What do you think?

Here is an xray with the fillet cut in below the table top





How about this then?


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## SketchUp Guru (22 Apr 2007)

I think your last sketch shows the best solution. That gives you more wood above the slot in the leg.

As Steve points out, the legs are laminated from four pieces. You could construct the slot for the fillet or whatever it is by leaving a space and gluing in a short block above it. That would give you the opportunity to get more of the fillet into the leg. You could screw the fillet into a recess on the bottom of the table top so the legs could be removed if needed.


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## Wanlock Dod (26 Apr 2007)

Lord Nibbo

How about a tenon in the long grain of the top and a couple of pocket hole screws at the other side to hold it in place?

Cheers,

Dod


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## NickWelford (27 Apr 2007)

The short grain above the fillet could be reinforced with a dowel or two perhaps


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## Newbie_Neil (27 Apr 2007)

Hi Steve

Is this a job for the Domino or loose tenons?

Cheers
Neil


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## Steve Maskery (27 Apr 2007)

Newbie_Neil":llt90lnz said:


> Hi Steve
> 
> Is this a job for the Domino or loose tenons?
> 
> ...



You still have the problem of short grain. I still maintain that, for this design to succeed, the mechanical fixing is best.
S


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## Adam (27 Apr 2007)

I've seen a table like this before, it had a steel bracket underneath, with a bolt to keep everything together. You could add a small change which would be some supports rising up from a few inches down, up at 45 degrees to both the vertical and to the face to add support?

Adam


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## Lord Nibbo (27 Apr 2007)

Well I used pocket screws and copious amounts of PVA. It seems sturdy but I ain't going to test it by sitting on it :lol: In fact if I did sit on it I don't think any hardware would be strong enough :lol: 

Now it's finished (finish still to be applied) I must say for such a simple design i.e. no rails, no mortise & tenons it's probably the most finnicky and difficult table I've ever made, I know that sounds silly but making this one in this pic was so easy.





I'll go and take some pics of this new table and post them here later.


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## Lord Nibbo (27 Apr 2007)

So here it is finished but unfinished so to speak, she's not decided what finish she wants but it's got to stay very light and the end result had to look chunky, personally I would have tapered the legs a little. 
















The thickness of the top appears to be 1 3/4" thick but it's not. 





Every thing sawn and sized from 1" boards so there was an awful lot of planing and gluing which made it a long job compared to the walnut table. :roll:


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## Chris Knight (27 Apr 2007)

LN,
That is a good looking result. I would say too, that if you have glued the top to the legs as well as using the pocket screws, it should be quite strong enough well able to take your weight. Of course I am not sure what you weigh :wink:


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## spadge (27 Apr 2007)

Looks really good LN but I wonder about the durability of just using pocket screws and glue, particulary as coffee tables tend to get dragged about much more than bigger tables.

Given that you you used "false" rails to provide increased thickness at the edges of the top you could have mortice and tenoned the two long thicknessing pieces into the legs and used a floating tenon to join the two short grain end pieces to the legs. The legs and "rails" could have been assembled independently of the top so you could get the joints together(but with the 4 legs sticking up the thickness of the top). Then knotch out the corners of the top and glue the base to the top. Bit fiddly but I think it would result in a stronger and more durable table.

Not being critical, just my 2ps worth

Cheers

Grahame

P.S. Didn't suggest this earlier because only just seen the thread.


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## Lord Nibbo (27 Apr 2007)

spadge":tawf5wgq said:


> Looks really good LN but I wonder about the durability of just using pocket screws and glue, particulary as coffee tables tend to get dragged about much more than bigger tables.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Grahame



Good suggestion of how I could have used tennons and your reasoning why, but the lady it's for is putting it on a polished floor so I don't think dragging it around will do any damage. Doing the top first then adding the legs made it easier to clean up all the edges without the legs getting knocked about and it enabled me to make the cut outs for the legs perfect just using a tennon saw and a rabbet plane.


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## SketchUp Guru (27 Apr 2007)

I think your table turned out very nice. She'll like it.

Just thought I'd throw this out since you like to do tables with thick-appearing tops. Here's a method I learned from a friend for creating the appearance and for hiding end grain.

Start with the top oversized. Cut off the ends with a 45° bevel, rip on the sides with a 45° bevel. Bevel the offcuts and glue them back onto the top.


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## DomValente (27 Apr 2007)

Just caught this thread LN.

Could you have made the legs then joined one length of the top to two legs with dowels and then done the same with the other two, finally add the centre part of the top with biscuits , hope that makes sense.

Dom


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## Newbie_Neil (28 Apr 2007)

Hi Dave

That's a really clever idea.

So how do you then attach the legs?

Thanks
Neil


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## Anonymous (28 Apr 2007)

Lord Nibbo":1vqk7quz said:


> Well I used pocket screws and copious amounts of PVA.



I knew you'd weaken when I suggested that :lol: :lol: 

Table looks really very nice Nibbo - I particularly like to see furniture before the finish is applied as I have rarely seen a piece that was improved with the finish on. I just love the look and feel of the bare wood


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## Nick W (28 Apr 2007)

Dave,

That's a great idea. I shall file it under 'to be used one day'.


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## SketchUp Guru (28 Apr 2007)

Neil and Nick, glad you like the idea. I wish I could take credit for it.

As far as attaching the legs, it depends upon the style of legs. You could glue in more wood behind the trim pieces as needed. Just make sure the grain goes the proper direction. If the legs are like LN's table, you could attach the legs as he has done on his table.


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## Newbie_Neil (28 Apr 2007)

Hi Dave

Thanks for the explanation.

I thought you had some cunning plan for the legs as well.

All the best,
Neil


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