# Surfboard build WIP



## Chris152 (24 Jul 2019)

We got going on this at last. I'm building with my son who's obsessed with surfing and it seemed a good way to get him making after the end of gcses, and I'm pretty excited too.

We downloaded a free plan for a 7' 6" magic carpet from the net 
https://www.instructables.com/id/Hollow ... ic-Carpet/ 
printed the plan on A4 sheets that we (I) taped together (using Adobe reader and printing as a poster), spray mounted on ply for the skeleton (ribs and stringer) and bottom, then got to work with the bandsaw.















I'm trying to decide a couple of things. 

1. The rails (the edges of the board, where top connects to bottom) can be done with a single layer of thin strips of bead and cove profile that interlock and curve; with a single layer of thin strips planed to run and connect flush as they follow the curve of the rail (top to bottom of the rail), the curve of the board (profile seen from above) and the curve of the rocker (profile from side); or with solid strips built up on truncated ends of the ribs (so they attach flat) and then shaped to follow the curve achieved in the first two options. 
I'm tending to think the last is the easiest for me (tho it'll be a bit heavier, not so good) - the second will need adjustment for each rib that each strip needs to connect to (which will drive me nuts) , and while the first looks easiest over all, my router table has no way of attaching featherboards so the strips (/my fingers) could end up a terrible mess.

2. Most people seem to use western red cedar but I can only find that in green form (we want to get on with making) so I'm wondering what alternatives we could use. It needs to be light and dry, and will be machined to 6mm thickness before connecting to the top in strips (the base is a sheet of 5.5mm ply).

Any thoughts much appreciated, I'll update as we go!


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## Trainee neophyte (24 Jul 2019)

I have yet to begin my board, but it's looking to be fairly soon, fingers crossed.

Check out the videos on the Sliver paddleboard site: https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboard-building/
https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddlebo ... rails-101/

It's for paddleboard, but the same rules apply. I would recommend bead and cove, only because it seems to be the standard way to do things, but NB I haven't actually built one yet, so it is all theory.

Regarding wood, the new best thing ever is paulonia, if you can find it. It has the density of balsa wood, is virtually knot-free, has interesting grain and colouring, and is hard as nails, allegedly. There is no way I will be able to get any, but if you can, it is the wood to use. Otherwise pine will work,I understand. Mahogany would look cool, but you may not be able to lift it.

Finally, and not necessarily important, making a table that fits the profile of your board stringer may make things easier (I am looking to make a 14' paddleboard, which is double the size of your board, so may only apply for long, long boards). 
https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddlebo ... bly-table/


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## Chris152 (24 Jul 2019)

Thanks Trainee neophyte - I'd not thought of pine but I'm sure you're right, and easy to get - I reckon that's what we'll do. As for mahogany, the plan's to insert three thin strips of contrasting wood just for looks so that should help keep weight down but still look good. We'll see about the latter, tho (dodgy workmanship...). 14' paddleboard sounds like a beast!

I'd found that sliverpaddleboards site and it's really helpful - we're planning to build the table/ supports for ribs tomorrow. 

OK, if we go down the bead and cove route - instead of featherboards on the router table, is it an option to use a couple of strips of wood clamped in place (one guiding horizontally on the table, and one holding vertically on the fence) to guide the wood to be cut? Or is that too rigid for the job? We'll need to buy a couple of new router bits if we do.

Really appreciate your thoughts.


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## Trainee neophyte (24 Jul 2019)

Chris152":3v9wgxlf said:


> Thanks Trainee neophyte - I'd not thought of pine but I'm sure you're right, and easy to get - I reckon that's what we'll do. As for mahogany, the plan's to insert three thin strips of contrasting wood just for looks so that should help keep weight down but still look good. We'll see about the latter, tho (dodgy workmanship...). 14' paddleboard sounds like a beast!
> 
> I'd found that sliverpaddleboards site and it's really helpful - we're planning to build the table/ supports for ribs tomorrow.
> 
> ...



If you can clamp things to your table, can you not make your own feather boards to fit? I have a "router table" that is almost impossible to clamp things to - makes things doubly difficult. Please note - I am not a font of wisdom - very much a newbie! https://m.youtube.com/results?search_qu ... for+router


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## Chris152 (24 Jul 2019)

You're right - I'd forgotten that option. Searching now for a Flute and Bead Cutter Set of the right size (6mm diameter) and I'm struggling - and they don't look cheap! Maybe it'd be cheaper to get them cut for me. Decisions decisions...


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Jul 2019)

Chris152":1eu667a3 said:


> You're right - I'd forgotten that option. Searching now for a Flute and Bead Cutter Set of the right size (6mm diameter) and I'm struggling - and they don't look cheap! Maybe it'd be cheaper to get them cut for me. Decisions decisions...



Keep posting your progress - if only just for me! I need some encouragement to get started. If only I can 1) get rid of family & friends who all come to stay for a free beach holiday, and 2) finish the evil bathroom cabinet, I can get on with it. Depressingly, I think my first board will be a boxy, not so challenging kuholo (https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/kits/sur ... ds/kaholo/) because I need a 14' tourer. As soon as that is done, I will be after a Sliver board, because they are gorgeous. Inlaid olive wood is the plan, because I live on an olive farm - it seems appropriate, and I have LOTS!


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Jul 2019)

...and another thing: http://www.ipaulownia.co.uk/paulownia-s ... ia-timber/


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## Chris152 (25 Jul 2019)

Trainee neophyte":2w930bla said:


> ...and another thing: http://www.ipaulownia.co.uk/paulownia-s ... ia-timber/


That's brilliant, Tn - I've put in a enquiry (bit odd you can't just buy it?!) - we'll see. Tho olive would be rather nice!

ps - here's a build using the strip method for rails I thought to use: http://www.hollowsurfboards.com/documents/TheBasics.pdf (scroll down).
pps - that Fyne kit looks like a good build, some nice details and lovely shape - tho I've never tried SUP and pretty sure I never will judging by the struggles I see beginners having here!


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Jul 2019)

Chris152":1f5287vq said:


> Trainee neophyte":1f5287vq said:
> 
> 
> > ...and another thing: http://www.ipaulownia.co.uk/paulownia-s ... ia-timber/
> ...



Don't have any surf here, so next best thing is paddleboarding. Your strip rail method looks "easier", but that is a lot of of extra wood to be carrying around. I hope you have a short walk across the beach! It should be extra strong if you are planning to bounce the board against rocks on a regular basis (ouch!), but I would worry about the weight, both for carrying, and for performance. Given that I will be making a board twice as long as yours, I don't think I will be able to use that technique, as the weight will be an issue - I'll have to add wheels, and possibly a motor, just to get to the water :-( It does look like an easier method, but bead and cove rails ought to be strong enough, and as long as you have enough clamps, not too difficult to shape. Just cutting the things with fingers intact will be the challenge. Re 6mm bits - I had some which didn't fit my 1\4" router so I got a local guy to machine them smaller - not a perfect solution, as they still don't fit perfectly. However, isn't there a collet adapter for your router? Something like this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-Router-Bi ... ect=mobile


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## Chris152 (25 Jul 2019)

Very little accomplished today, the sea called and then it was too hot to do anything...

You're right, it will end up heavier - if I could find a cheaper and right size bead and cove set i think I'd try (the 6mm I referred to wasn't the collet size but diameter of the bead, 3mm radius? I've only ever used a couple of straight bits on my router, complete newbie to it, so let me know if I'm confusing things?). But, in order to think through the extra weight I did a full-size drawing of the ideal scenario (quite different to my actual craftsmanship) on the thickest rib (less strips needed for the rails toward front and rear):




That wouldn't be sooo heavy by the time it's planed to shape, assuming I could accurately glue up the strips. What do you reckon?

ps Didn't hear back from iPaulownia. It's a weird site, and they have their Spanish and British contact numbers the wrong way round. I'll try to call tomorrow if I get a chance.


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Jul 2019)

Chris152":2u8ly590 said:


> Very little accomplished today, the sea called and then it was too hot to do anything...
> 
> You're right, it could well end up heavier - if I could find a cheaper and right size bead and cove set i think I'd try (the 6mm I referred to wasn't the collet size but diameter of the bead, 3mm radius? I've only ever used a couple of straight bits on my router, complete newbie to it, so let me know if I'm confusing things?). But, in order to think through the extra weight I did a full-size drawing of the ideal scenario (quite different to my actual craftsmanship) on the thickest rib (less strips needed for the rails toward front and rear):
> 
> That wouldn't be sooo heavy by the time it's planed to shape, assuming I could accurately glue up the strips. What do you reckon?



That'll be me not understanding the router reference - told you I'm a newbie. Regarding the plan - do you think this will be as strong as the bead and cove design? Everyone clams that a glued surface is stronger than wood, but if that is the case, why do so many joints fail at the glued surface, and not elsewhere...? (Or do they? Again I may not be qualified to comment). I would think a cupped surface would be less likely to shear than a flat surface. It seems that I am added to the cove and bead system, which is odd, given that I have never made a board. Perhaps I should stop proffering unsupported advice. Once I have made a few boards, I will be in a better position to comment.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yakamoz-4-Inch ... 5ED500MFXT

1/4" = 6mm ish, does it not?


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## Inspector (25 Jul 2019)

Lee Valley to the rescue if all else fails. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 9435,46174 Look for canoe router bits on eBay and there are tons but the shipping may take a while.

Another option is to plank it like you were using cove and bead pieces but bevel each piece with a hand plane to fit it's neighbour. Carvel planking on a tiny scale. :wink: 

Pete


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## Chris152 (25 Jul 2019)

Just off to bed and saw your post, Tn - it's arriving Saturday! (Only one left so thought best not delay.) I did search, honest! 

Pete - people do do it as you suggest but there are so many variables I'm very confident I'd make a terrible mess of it. #-o 

Thanks both, C


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## Chris152 (27 Jul 2019)

Glue-up board done (supports held in place with hot glue); position of each rib and the stringer marked up in pencil; holes cut in frame to lighten the load. I might try to get a bit more off the thinner ribs before glue up and I still need to sand the edges of the ribs.




Router bits arrived today, just need to muster the courage to use them!


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## Chris152 (3 Aug 2019)

Sanding of frame done and cut-outs for the first bit of the ribs finished. I'm now just experimenting with a dry fit to see how to clamp it in place - the hardest part is pressing the ply sheet (base) down onto shims underneath so the base presses up into the concave section on the underside of the frame.
Oh, and I could do with more clamps - might have to resort to concrete blocks to supplement the downward pressure. 




As for the wood for the deck, I saw packs of spruce cladding at B&Q for a good price, 7.5 mm thick so not much to remove to 6 mm, so might go with that and dye a couple of the boards for contrast. (Spruce is apparently heavier than western red cedar but lighter than pine.) And pine for the rails - again, bq have 6 mm stripwood which is the right thickness so saves time. 

One question - how long is the open time for Titebond III? This is a complex glue-up for me.

Edit - I realised that the frame is glued before glueing to the base so all good on drying time. I hot glued little blocks to hold it all square and glued up, and will join to the base tomorrow.


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## Chris152 (5 Aug 2019)

Glue up of frame to base - I used thick boards, the thinner ones are for the top, I realised in time!




Now getting onto the rails. I double-side taped the magnetic feather board to the table and taped a guide to the fence to sort the featherboard issue:








Worked fine for the test piece, hopefully it'll hold for the umteen others I need to do. (edit - I'm using a Katsu router, totally vague adjustment when seated under the table. Hit and miss til I got it right, and still wonder if it'll wobble out of place as I do more.)

I've never done steam bending, but it was necessary (first try cracked the wood at the nose, more curve) so used a steam iron with dish cloth on the wood, and silver foil underneath to stop the steam getting into the rest of the wood. Couple of minutes on the piece to bend did fine:




You can clearly see where I was over enthusiastic with hot glue on the guide blocks, took the surface layer off the ply in places. Use sparingly. (Thanks Phil!)

Another question: How long should I wait to unclamp the bent wood for the 6mm ply to hold its shape, so I can get on with glueing?


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## morfa (5 Aug 2019)

No idea about the answer to your question, but I have to say this is one cool WIP. Really enjoying it.


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## Chris152 (6 Aug 2019)

In the words of Victor Meldrew, 'I don't believe it...'




Spent the morning fighting with dodgy router depth lock and ended up having to secure it by clamping a block of wood under the router body across the underside of the table, finally cut all the beads with it, opened the second box in the package from Amazon to cut the coves and hey presto! fffs.


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## Bm101 (6 Aug 2019)

This is looking amazing Chris. Well done.


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## Chris152 (10 Aug 2019)

Complete set of bead and cove bits arrived Thursday, so I got on with cutting the coves which went fine. This was my final setup for the router table:




The featherboard was taped to the top but the guide sticks were hot-glued. The strips flew through, just a few which I'd cut earlier without the two guides on the far side of the bit were not about (just about) perfect. Surprised me.




The rails starting to build, but the shortage of clamps means I can do only one at a time. 
('I' replaces 'we' coz my son's been off on hols this week, good time to get on with the nasty routing...)

One thing - I have to steam the strips for the rails in situ, and even with silver foil under the piece being steamed, if there's pressure from the previous piece (now glued and dried) trying to lift away, the steam softens the Titebond and it releases the strip at that point. It's only happened on one rib-join (a really tight bend in three directions) at the nose, which is now on its third re-glueing - hopefully it'll be ok this time, as I steamed the next piece before re-glueing it, so now it's clamped and being held by the strip above. If that makes any sense.

Have to say, this is great fun and I'm sure we're going to do another - which kind of takes the pressure off this one, which is more of a learning experience than a surfboard at the moment!

Edit to add: My cunning plan of using stripwood from B&Q wasn't a good one - for the same reason the Titebond fails when steamed, so too do the joins they put in the stripwood - which is fine if the joins are on a section that doesn't need steaming, but avoid getting them toward the tail and nose. I wasted one piece on account of this.


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## Trainee neophyte (10 Aug 2019)

I'm right behind you. 40°c today, so pretending it's raining, and not going outside, but soon, soon I will be making a board. The thread about making a ceedar wood kyak had me in a frenzy of research about skin-on-frame techniques and a quicker, cheaper, easier alternative to fibreglass, until I read about needing to take a puncture repair kit with you. Perhaps we will stick with fibreglass. You are nearly at the exciting bit - many, many hours of sanding! Looking forward to hearing more...


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## Chris152 (10 Aug 2019)

Cool, wet and blowing a gale here - tho it does mean there'll be surf tomorrow... 

And yes, it's starting to get some shape - the remaining rail strips will be more two than three-directional so hopefully easier, and then onto the top (after the tail and leash blocks). The glassing is almost completely new to me (I've only done a few repairs on old boards), but before I lose the link, I found this guide really helpful - clear and methodical without any surfy-baloney:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fFexSUyK1U
and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKnbOpC_mic

ps, the last photo is cruel - just noticed in it that the stringer curves to the left toward the tail. I'll have to be sure the tail block/ fin go in true to the board or we'll be turning right all the time!


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## Trainee neophyte (10 Aug 2019)

Many thanks. My knowledge of fibreglass is entirely theoretical. I am assuming my first board will be a demonstration in how not to do it, but then the second and third (dream BIG!) will be easier to deal with. Theoretically.


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## Chris152 (13 Aug 2019)

Update to give a few cautions, in case anyone's as naive as me:

1. Don't be afraid to reshape the ends of the ribs a little to allow for the properties of the wood you're trying to fit around for the rails. This is the one rib that I referred to above, which kept coming detached as I steamed the strip above to fit. I think it did this here because, in spite of steaming, it wasn't bent enough; and that it needed to bend too much because of the shape of the previous rib. Slight adjustment to the rib would have fixed this, as the other side was fine.





On the 4th go, I put the screw in, into the base (so not just along the ply joins) - I may leave it having ground the head away, and hide it; or I may remove it. Planning for the latter, I shaped a wedge to the internal contour and glued it to the base and the strips above, to add security (you can just about see the outer edge of the wedge). 

2. Remove excess glue from the ribs before attaching. 




One thing I've struggled with is putting enough pressure on the strips to clamp firmly against the one below, but not so much that it detaches the one below from the rib. A couple of time I've done this and heard a small crack which I suppose is the one below detaching from the rib, something that'll happen more easily if you don't clean the glue off the rib from the previous strip. The glue needs to soak into open pores on both sides.

3. Make sure your guides are well set up when routing coves and beads.




Mine were set well for the coves, but the beads I did before with no guides the far side of the router. Hence the inaccuracies on some strips, in spite of everything being set up correctly. I started to clean this bit up with a block plane and a bit of sandpaper just to see how it'd look - it can have more removed, but we can't just keep going or we'll weaken the rails. 

All very obvious woodworking stuff, I'm sure, but it wasn't so obvious to me til we tried!

Another question. I wanted to stain the spruce strips for the deck quite dark and insert narrower light strips, but have realised that a) stain can make glue joins less strong, and b) we'll need to plane and sand the deck after attaching which'll remove the stain in places. 
Can you mask wood and stain, or does stain just seep under the masking tape? Any alternatives? All suggestions welcome! Thanks.

ps - I forgot - sometimes you need to plane away the inner edge of the cove so the strip will sit properly on the strip beneath, as the ribs can stop this happening in places.


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## doctor Bob (13 Aug 2019)

Very interesting, looks extremely cool


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## novocaine (13 Aug 2019)

depends on the nature of the wood as to if the stain will leach under the tape. 
a tight grain hard wood can often be stained to a line, a softer, more open pored timber (like spruce I'm afraid) may not. there is only one way to find out.  

Might be worth pre-steaming and bending (or even heat bending) the remaining strips by eye then doing the last bit on the ribs to save so much steam around the glue joints. 

crack on Chris, it's looking good, you'll be surprised how thin you can go on a curve and it still be strong enough.


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## Trainee neophyte (13 Aug 2019)

This has definitely confirmed my thinking: the rails are the tricky bit. Given that I am planning boards three or four feet longer than this one, it will either be easier, or a lot harder. About time to find out.


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## Chris152 (13 Aug 2019)

Thanks for the encouragement fellas. 

Novocaine - I think this confirms your thoughts on stain/ spruce!




Wouldn't have been quite so bad along the grain, but I think we'll park that idea. And I figured that a way to keep the steam off the already glued strips is to put a piece of ply underneath and keep as far away as possible, which seems to have worked ok - tho I'm now on easier fitting strips, so we'll see.

In my efforts to keep spirits up, I decided just now to take a proper look and some shots of the board so far...




(happily over-exposed on the board so you can't see the terrible glue lines)




You can see a little of the concave toward the nose in this one, and




the 'V' toward the tail in this one. 

That'll do to keep us going, we're pretty pleased with it so far for a first stab. We'll see how it unfolds. 
Definitely get stuck in, Tn!


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## Trainee neophyte (13 Aug 2019)

Any day now - just need to make a decision as to which plan. I'm thinking to take the cheaper, easier route, which also gives me a faster board, but not as pretty. I'll use it to practice fibreglassing, before moving on to pretty, fun boards which may not actually perform as well. The real stress is not being able to try out different designs to know which board is best - I can't just nip down to fistral beach and have a go on a few different boards. Just need to get through August, and finish the bathroom cabinet.


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## Chris152 (14 Aug 2019)

Trainee neophyte":3dmydwg0 said:


> I'm thinking to take the cheaper, easier route, which also gives me a faster board, but not as pretty. I'll use it to practice fibreglassing, before moving on to pretty, fun boards which may not actually perform as well. The real stress is not being able to try out different designs to know which board is best - I can't just nip down to fistral beach and have a go on a few different boards.



Funnily enough that's exactly what my boy was doing on hols last week - at Fistral! (Between watching the world-series surf competition.)

If I had the money I'd go on one of those courses where you can build one in a week - you'd learn a clear and efficient method. But they're expensive (well, £500/ day, tho you do leave with a board you've built and (I think) someone has glassed for you. Second to that a full-on kit, making a rod for a second build. But again, we're looking at £1000 from what I can see. 

But if you can make one from plans and accept that it's not going to be the best before starting another, it's relatively cheap if time consuming (trying to figure out/ correct problems). And if the plans come with clear instructions/ guidance, that'll be easier - I've been trying to put together bits seen on the net and they tend not to show all the problems that can arise (see above!). I'd go for a more simple-looking design for a first go, then once you have a method that's clear it'll be easier to tackle a more complex build? Just some musings.


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## NickM (14 Aug 2019)

As a surfer (only very occasional nowadays but used do a lot in my youth in Guernsey) I'm really enjoying reading about this project. Keep up the good work!


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## Trainee neophyte (14 Aug 2019)

I've been procrastinating for two years now! At least it forced me to buy a table saw (which I probably won't really need, but don't tell the Project Manager who must be obeyed). I want to build a board á la https://sliverpaddleboards.com/#, because they are oh so pretty,but I don't think they will suit my paddleboard style. So, I am going to go with the Kaholo plywood 14' monster, for touring and downwinding. Two of these to practice, then a sliver board, and then finally something from clearwoodpaddleboards.com - probably a racer, which I will keep falling off. I have only a limited number of years before I am too old for this sillyness, so better get cracking. By the time I have finished the list above, I ought to be able to design, shape and build my own, with my eyes shut. I wonder if the old people's home will have room for a table saw?

If anyone has any other designs then I am all ears - just need to get past the insanity that is 15 August, and then I should be able to look to the future. (FYI: https://news.gtp.gr/2014/08/14/15-augus ... on-greece/)


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## Chris152 (17 Aug 2019)

Finally glued the last rail strip last night




and cut and glued the nose and tail blocks today, after initial rough shaping with electric sander. 








I think I'll avoid using that on the board as it may shake my dodgy glue joints loose. I decided to use ply for the nose and tail blocks and I definitely now think of this board as a learning experience - I'll save expensive wood for the next one.

Speaking of expensive wood, I just got a quote for 8x 90mm x 2400mm x 6mm cedar, wondering if I should hold off doing the deck til I get nicer wood, but the price was £165. Bit rich for my blood - I'll try Stones in Devon next (referred to by colinc in BM101's canoe thread) to see if I can get bigger boards to cut and plane myself.


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## Chris152 (18 Aug 2019)

Fin and leash blocking. This is so the fin and leash have something solid to be routed/ drilled and set in to. (At some point I'm going to have to get a plunge attachment for the Katsu so I can do this. Ooo err...)




We're doing the build at home and everything so far's been done in the dining room (one of the advantages of not having another half) but now into the garage for the extra mess. I've adapted a log saw horse thing to hold the board in a position that allows us to plane ok, tho just from one side on account of the lack of space (we'll flip the board).









As for glassing, after we'd been in the sea this morning I got speaking to a fella who makes boards and he says he's happy to glass it for us, just waiting for a price. The only place I've really got to do it is a workshop that's used for woodwork and the thought of discovering dust in the resin puts me off trying unless we have to - dust and ham-fistedness, that is. We'll see...

Edit: We (I)'ve planed and sanded a section of one rail, just to see how it goes. Looking carefully I can see several gaps where the outer edge of the cove hasn't contacted the bead below properly. 




Does glue have any binding property when not under pressure (clamps)? Or should I just use filler? (It'll be filled with resin in due course - should I just leave the gaps?) 
Thanks for any thoughts.


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## Trainee neophyte (18 Aug 2019)

> Does glue have any binding property when not under pressure (clamps)? Or should I just use filler? (It'll be filled with resin in due course - should I just leave the gaps?)
> Thanks for any thoughts.



The wood is just a form to provide a base for the fibreglass, so I don't think there are any structural issues. The gaps are therefore purely cosmetic.

Probably.

I had a quick look at http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... the-rails/ and it looks as though there are similar gaps on his boards (last photo),although possibly less pronounced. Whack some filler in there, and no one will know any different.

Besides, there is major kudos in snapping a board on a big wave :mrgreen:


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## Chris152 (19 Aug 2019)

The dream:
[youtube]g7yWDrn2XBM[/youtube]

The dirty reality:




I found planing away so much ply and then the underside of the rail - and especially the nose and tail blocks - tricky on account of the pressure it exerted on the board where it was held, so tried the sander at a low speed and 60 grit and found it was less demanding on the board, so long as pressure was kept low. And there was less (visible) dust with the extractor running. But I'm now planing again to get a better finish and to remove the high spots the sander left along the length. Planing on the tighter curves isn't easy - I know some use a spoke shave, but I don't have one of those.

One side roughed out so far; once the second's done, it's time to move on to flattening the tops of the rails so the top of the board can be glued down onto it.

edit - once re-sharpened, the plane was far quicker than the sander and put little strain on the board. 

and, update...




Brought into the house to look (in comfort) for symmetry and overall shape of rails. Looking much tidier now.

ps Tn - I'm going to do as you suggested and use neutral colour filler. As for the balance between strength of wood/ strength of glassing, I really have no idea about that but suspect the wood has a significant job to do in terms of strength? It's going to get a pretty light coat of glass fibre, and for sure will have to withstand the odd whack from other boards in the sea etc, but I don't know what the balance is.


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## Bm101 (19 Aug 2019)

:roll: This is big project and hence it's a steep learning curve mate. Keep your chin up. It looks amazing! 
You have any scrapers Chris?
I'm just a div down my shed well behind your skill level but I watched a David Charlesworth dvd on planes and a light went on. Well tuned and sharp ok we all get that at least in concept but what struck me was the speed. It was sacrificed for control. And when you sacrifice the speed you are able to tuck a finger under the bed to maintain an angle. The speed goes but you become more efficient because now you ain't grunting with effort you are directing energy into the tool. Or at least you are trying. And your balance of efficiency goes up exponentially. All of a sudden you become aware of a squirrel directing his gaze in your direction. The sound that clouds make as they trail across the sky, the quick glimpse of an otter AS HE COMTEMPLATES THE WIDER BALANCE OF.. .. ok ... I LOST TRACK I'M SO IN HARMONY WITH MY PLANE YEH?!?!? [-o< 


Ok, I'm being a daft pipper for a cheap laugh. Just for a change. :roll:

If you haven't used a scraper... just saying... slow sharp plane pushed from the legs and well turned scraper blade. Bosh. I'll be quiet now before the bigger boys hear me and pipe up about the close set cap iron. :|

It's looking great Chris. Keep cracking on.

Ps! Also. Cascamite and sawdust that you have been keeping handy for gap filling. Yeh?!? (hammer) Course you have. 8)


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## Chris152 (20 Aug 2019)

Bm101":1gljiroy said:


> ...well behind your skill level...


 :lol: "Cut along dotted lines; glue along continuous lines; fiddle endlessly with router til you achieve something vaguely like bead and covey shapes; glue (and screw) strips to sides; buy large tub of filler..."  

But i think you're completely right about speed - hogging off the rails is one thing, but the final shaping does need a different attitude. If the shapes along each side aren't right, the board won't work properly and i think we just about stopped the hogging before I went too far. The plane's a bit of a stranger as I've not used it in quite some time, and we were just vague acquaintances at best. Maybe by the time I get to the 10th board... 

As for scrapers, would any of these work?
https://www.axminster.co.uk/hand-tools/ ... t-scrapers

or this?
https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-r ... s-ax945814

Thanks Chris, really appreciate your post. I'll try to get in the zone...


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## Bm101 (20 Aug 2019)

There is far better advice than I can offer here Chris:

scraper-sharpening-t117600.html?hilit=sharpening%20scrapers


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## Trainee neophyte (20 Aug 2019)

Another idea, which the foam board shaper boys use, is a long strip of wood with sandpaper attached. By long, I mean something like 12". Two or three screws into the ends, or the top of you prefer, will hold the strip of sandpaper in place. There is probably a name for it, but I call it my "sandpaper screwed to a bit of wood". It might help you sneak up on the last little bit. It shapes foam boards really fast, but might be a bit tedious on wood. Cheap to try out though.


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## Chris152 (21 Aug 2019)

Thanks both. I carried on with the no4 at funny angles, and used a block plane when that couldn't make contact, and think it's looking ok to follow up with a sanding block, as you say, Tn. I've never used a scraper and tbh, don't know how to use one - so it could easily lead to more problems! We're now onto flattening a platform onto the top of the rails for the top to attach to, which has to be done with a block plane on account of the contours. You can just about make it out in this photo, still needs some work but nearly there:





Then it's on to jointing the 6mm boards to make the top! We're going to use wood we have here already to save spending, could look ok but would have liked some of that lovely wood you see in the vids.

Speaking of costs, I was quoted £250 for glassing which is more than I want to spend on this one - so far, wood and glue has cost about £57 including glue. Sooo - it looks like we're going to have to do the glassing ourselves. 
Does anyone know if this stuff would be good for the glass and finish coats?
https://www.fyneboatkits.co.uk/supplies ... y-coating/


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## novocaine (21 Aug 2019)

stanley knife blade can be used as a scraper. 
hold either side between thumb and fore finger, bend it a tad and push it along the grain. great for tricky little curves and angles like this. 

have a go on scrap. 

grab a saw next time you go in to pound store. cut a 6" piece of with an angle grinder and flatten the teeth. tad dar, one scraper. you can raise a bur on the edge with the shaft of a screw driver but you'll find it works without. 

you can also form special shapes like a radius. 

also, a long sanding block or levelling beam as alluded to above is a must, for this I'd suggest you want more like 18-24", it can be as simple as a chunk of 3x2 but it'll be heavy on the arms. 

you're doing well, you are nearly over the worst of it, leave it be till it's a completed shell now. 

as for glassing up, you can do that yourself and even at 0.5mm thick (you'll be more like 1mm) it will massively improve the rigidity of the structure, it will also let you get away with some roughness to the finish as you'll have a bit of filling material that will need to be smoothed (this is were the real black art is on setting a rail). don't fret dust in the gel coat, unless you drop a ton of it you'll be fine, it's layup time is pretty quick.


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## Chris152 (21 Aug 2019)

Finished feathering the tops of the rails to flat, now for the top!


novocaine":5wop16lq said:


> ...leave it be till it's a completed shell now.


I think that's the key right now - more fiddling will just take more off the rails, and once the top's on it'll need finishing which will mean reworking the bits we've already 'finished'. And we'll definitely be giving the Stanley knife blade a go at that point. Can't say I'm very relaxed at the idea of glassing but I guess the idea is to plan ahead and be totally organised. 
I called Fyne Boats today about resin etc, they were incredibly helpful and, in case anyone else is looking for wr cedar/ paulownia, they sell it either planed or sawn, the latter being much cheaper apparently (they don't list prices but I'll get a quote for the next board). 
Thanks novocaine!


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## Trainee neophyte (21 Aug 2019)

Looks like young Novacaine knows what he is talking about - pay more attention to him, and less attention to me!

Fibreglassing can't be too hard - surfers do it all the time! All in the prep work, probably. Fyne boats will be the people I get my plans from, probably - they do seem to specialise in wooden boards, so I expect their stuff is of sufficient quality. One of my problems is the complete lack of fibreglass /epoxy knowledge where I live - I will almost certainly have to buy mail order from abroad - Fyne Boats being on my list. If I start now, I could be on the water by October.

If.


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## Chris152 (22 Aug 2019)

Trainee neophyte":1w4h7xfu said:


> One of my problems is the complete lack of fibreglass /epoxy knowledge where I live - I will almost certainly have to buy mail order from abroad - Fyne Boats being on my list.


I'm happy to buy from them even if they're a bit more expensive (which I don't know is the case) - they were able to advise specifically for a wooden surfboard (/SUP), which most aren't in a position to do, which was great for me. But check carriage - they said the epoxy is a hazardous substance so needs different delivery, £15 to Wales but since I'm buying the fin box, leash plug and valve from them, not so bad.

Just band-sawed the thinner pine strips to plane to 6mm tomorrow, along with the darker (and narrower) steamed beech strips. Can't help thinking the spruce shuttering looks like, well, shuttering, but at £7.50 we're sticking with it - and the worst two are on the outside, so most should be cut away to follow the contour of the board.




But at least the pine is book matched so it looks nice-ish. Definitely best to prep your own wood if you can, but I don't have the confidence/ skill to re-saw the wider strips.


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## Trainee neophyte (22 Aug 2019)

Once the glass goes on and it's all shiny, it'll look fabulous. Knots are sexy, I promise! 

How else will you know it is two wood? {Belatd edit - I thought I typed "true wood", but apparently autocorrect knew better} 

Thanks for info re Fyne Boats - I shall be talking to them shortly.


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## novocaine (22 Aug 2019)

once you've got glass over it, it will darken and look less like shuttering. 

right, mini glassing lesson. 
figure you will be using woven mat rather than strand, it's heavier but stronger, you may need to use a mix as woven can be hard to make go round sharp curves. 
prep only the amount you need to cover the area you are doing. if you are doing the entire top, mix in 2 halves, you will have enough layup time to mix 2 batches, for most stuff like this you are best to mix in a 2 pint jug. follow the mix to the letter, to much hardener will let it setup to quick and you'll be chasing yourself, to little and it will gel but never set, they are normally mixed by weight although I've used stuff that's done by volume. 
cut the matting for the area you are doing and make sure it forms where you need it too before you mix anything, you may need to cut darts to get it round the tight bits, the best scissors (yes it really matters, you are cutting glass don't forget) are called tough cuts, they are what hospitals use to cut plaster, get a set. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scissors-Tough ... B00AKE20PE

right, now you are sure you know the mat will fit, mix your resin, epoxy or poly it doesn't make a difference you do it in the same way. 
flood the surface you are working, if you think it's a bit thick you have nearly put enough on, us a paint brush, a good one as there is little more annoying than picking out brush hairs. lay the mat on and use a roller or your brush to work it in to the resin you've applied, it should soak through, if it doesn't you didn't put enough on but don't fret it. apply another coat over the top while still wet. do this over a largish area then use a roller to flat it out. 
you only want 1 layer over the entire board but you will overlap in a few places, don't sweat it. 
do the entire top while it's wet (same for the bottom) you can seam it once dry but it's better to do it during gel. 

once you've done the entire board you can apply a gel coat (clear in this case but we used to colour it at this point), basically just a resin mix rolled over the entire thing. once thats done you are in to sanding, sanding, sanding and then sanding. 

this should give you a 0.5 to 1mm ish Glass fibre. 

wear gloves. 
wear a mask if you aren't in a well ventilated workshop
be ready for a head ache. 

have fun, it's a great skill to have. 

don't think I've missed anything but I'll take a look over it later and see if I've forgotten anything.


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## Chris152 (23 Aug 2019)

Thank you so much for taking the trouble to write this out for us, novocaine! I'm going to print it out and take it to the workshop when we do the job. It seems two things are most important - get the mix right; get it on before it begins to harden - the first is easily sorted (I hope), the second is where the stress comes in! 

Meanwhile, all strips for the top planed to 6mm and looking ok. We're just trying to figure the method of glue up. We can use up to eight sash clamps and four of the cross-bits to stop the strips lifting out of alignment (the Irwin clamps won't fit underneath) - but we can put 5 more timbers on the top, directly over the 5 blocks holding the strips off the floor, and weigh them down. 





Couple of questions?! How many sash clamps should we use along the 2.4 m length? And what do I put between the blocks holding the strips from lifting and the strips themselves to stop the blocks getting glued to the strips - will masking tape on the blocks be enough?
edit - And what's the order of clamping - tighten the sash clamps somewhat, then bring down the blocks; finish tightening the sash clamps, then further tighten the blocks? 
Thanks for any advice.


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## novocaine (23 Aug 2019)

Sod the clamps.
Lay a strips out and stick a strip of masking tape across them every 12" on one side. 
Flip it over. Lift so a pair of strips folds on the tape and apply glue on the edge. Repeat across each join. Push it down flat,wipe off excess glue. Add weight to the top with what ever you have. Leave to dry.

Edit. Like done at 3.20 but on a bigger scale.

https://youtu.be/iiHlAa131NI


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## Chris152 (24 Aug 2019)

The problem we have with that method is that some of the strips have moved enough to need pulling into place with a bit of sideways pressure (that or my planing was bad) - I don't think tape will be enough to hold it. So I think we'll go for a hybrid - use the method but some clamps/ weights too.


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## Chris152 (26 Aug 2019)

Well, in the words of the song, 'I did it my way...' (in the living room, with the clamp).




Seems to have worked ok, tho one strip didn't have enough glue at either end - but fortunately it was at the outside so they've been cut off. Always put plenty of glue at the ends (I read that somewhere). 
Flattening the top I'd assumed would be pretty quick but it wasn't - the worst being the spruce, which wanted to tear out, especially around all the knots. There's still some but I hope to get that with final sanding.




The scraper plane came to the rescue but even with that, tearout was a struggle. Avoid stupidly cheap wood.
Now cut back to rough shape and ready for glueing.




Finally,




I found this in the workshop and I've seen them used in surf-build videos online. I'm assuming you cut 'downhill', starting at the widest point and working in to the tail and nose. But can anyone advise on how I sharpen the thing? The edge isn't good at all. Thanks.
edit: Aha! 
sharpening-a-drawknife-t106556.html


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## Chris152 (28 Aug 2019)

Glueing the deck on


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## novocaine (28 Aug 2019)

put the draw knife back where you found it. perfect tool if you are working a balsa board, far to aggressive for a hollow board. 
a spoke shave is a more refined version that will let you get your shape without to much effort and little damage. 

spruce is a pig to plane and needs a crazy sharp blade, even then you'll have battle with grain direction and tear out. worry not though, you are glassing the board, it will fill any imperfections. 

looking good so far.


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## Chris152 (28 Aug 2019)

Thanks - we both agreed it was the most exciting bit so far as the deck started to take the form of a surfboard. 
The idea of using the draw knife was to remove the overhang where the deck extends beyond the rails by up to 3/4" - the alternative is a saw, but that could end in disaster, so I thought we'd creep up on the join, then finish with a plane and abrasive (we don't have a spokeshave). 
And yes, the spruce was really tricky - found myself checking the prices of 60cm drum sanders, which soon put an end to that idea.


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## novocaine (29 Aug 2019)

the curve your dealing with on the top, use your plane, the draw knife is likely to dig in and knock chunks out. It's a great tool for working with wet wood in big chunks. In skilled hands (not say yours aren't) it can be made to do stuff with amazing detail and accuracy. For something so thin as your time, it's going to make more work for you than it's worth. 

as for sharpening, file/grinder to form the bevel, stone in hand, blade in vice unlike normal where the stones in the vice. 

have you got a little low angle block plane? it might be easier for the end grain. (you could also consider a router and bearing bit if you have one)


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## Chris152 (29 Aug 2019)

Advice gratefully received! (Tho I did have a little go - the grain on the spruce is terribly wavy/ complex, so I immediately stopped that.) 
One side roughed out. I've been using the no.4 to take off most of the excess, then a block plane, then a power sander on the end grain at the nose and tail, then a sanding block.




The other side's till rough sawn so that's next, then a long sanding block to take out any bumps in the curves. We're trying to decide how to finish the rails/ top transition - at the moment there's a clear change of direction (a friend has a PU board that shape, which I quite like); or just round it off (which is more standard and possibly easier, in that there's no line to get right).


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## Trainee neophyte (29 Aug 2019)

I'm imagining it with the glass on, looking super-cool. Very sexy.

Sent Fyne Boats an email today - need to work out £100 delivery charge for epoxy - may have to source it locally.


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## novocaine (30 Aug 2019)

hard part is getting the sides to match (and to start with they do need to match), an asymetic board is great fun when it's intended (and short) less so when it's not. get a profile gauge (link below), mark the centre line (piece of masking tape to draw on) then mark every 6-10" along the board (right out on the edge). use the profile gauge on one side then make the other side match it, work your way down the board. 

best to start with this approach from the off if you can, usual adage of you can take it off but you can't put it back on. 

if you have a friend with a board rail shape you like then use the profile gauge and a pen to copy it by doing the same method as above (draw round the profile gauge on a piece of card, mark each one with a reference so you know which it is, cut it out so you can use the profile gauge to get the shape and transfer it to your board). you'll quite likely have to change it though as I suspect your board will be a bit heavier and need a sharper rail profile (think that's right, it's been a long time) to let you engage. 

profile gauge. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Contour-Gauge- ... 9170769615


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## Chris152 (30 Aug 2019)

That looks a great tool, it'll definitely help getting the sides matching. Delivery's slow from Amazon and we want to crack on (school starts Monday, hopefully we can finish the woodwork by then) so I'll try to pick one up in Toolsmart today. Thanks for pointing it out. (ps - the friend's board is over in west Wales so not really practical.)

Tn - I've no idea how things work there, never even visited, but aren't there boat yards with supplies that can sell it to you? If I wanted West system I could drive into Cardiff marina and buy some straight away. £100 is horribly steep!


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## Trainee neophyte (30 Aug 2019)

I can find epoxy here - seems to be reasonably priced. I just don't know if it is any good. Investigations continuing...

Edit: 
Just had a rely from Fyne Boats - the solution is to order sufficient epoxy for 6 boards, and then delivery is only £25 per board. Why didn't I think of that! (I'm guessing something got lost in translation.. :wink: )


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## Bm101 (30 Aug 2019)

On ma holibobs Chris but this is starting to look the bizz. Novocaine has your back (great forum eh) but it strikes me how similar to what i was (only) reading about in that boat book. Might be worth looking at if you have a fiver or so spare. Depends on how you think. Bit late on parade for this excellent thread but I see you have a stanley 80! Id still buy a handheld bahco one. For a fiver its a no brainer for dealing with small patches of tearout in the future and is a go to bit of kit for more than that with a pre finished edge. Very simple finishing tool. You know my skill level. Not trying to sound like a pro.
Anyway.  I have rum to drink and need to prepare for putting ma sandals back on in prder to stumble down to the beach for dinner. Hard times. :roll:


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## Chris152 (31 Aug 2019)

Tn - you're right, put like that £25 per board's not so bad. Can you get different woods that are suitable there or are you planning to work mainly with the olive you mentioned? Sounds wonderful.

Bm - Sounds like you're having a hell of a time of it there. Perfect for sitting back and dreaming of future projects. I think my wish to build a strip conoe goes back at least 15 years, each time summer would come around I'd head to the library and get one or two books on the subject, then inertia would set in and I wouldn't get started. The thing is to get started - then it's hard to go back. And I reckon one day, when the hurly burly's done, I'll retire to somewhere with quiet sea inlets and little surf and build my own boat for pottering in. Definitely going to check out that book. 
As for the scraper plane, that's an Axi version, pretty cheap but does a great job as far as I can tell. 
Hope dinner was good!


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## Chris152 (31 Aug 2019)

Back into the house for final checks on symmetry and how true everything feels. I've marked up a few points where there's still some to remove but seems ok, not perfect (we can only keep removing so much). The profile gauge was really helpful, tho most of the rails seems to have been pretty balanced on account of the necessity to follow the profile of the inner ribs with the bead and cove strips. 
Then final sanding and we're ready to glass.





Before final sanding, we need to put some filler in those gaps. Would any flexible wood filler suitable for outdoors be ok? I was thinking of this one:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/ronseal-mult ... &gclsrc=ds
Thanks.


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## Inspector (31 Aug 2019)

Nice job. What does it weigh at this point? I would fill with the epoxy and microballoons or fine sawdust. No compatibility issues and it adds strength unlike a flexible filler.

Pete


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## Chris152 (31 Aug 2019)

It's heavier than other PU boards of similar size, and the resin's yet to go on. I checked online and it seems professionally made wooden boards are heavier, too, so I guess it's just something to put up with. Not sure how much of a difference other woods would make, some of course - I need to think about it before starting the next one. I'm confident this one will work fine in the sea, tho - assuming we don't make a compete hash of the glassing, that is. 
Could I use Araldite Crystal Clear epoxy as you suggest (mixed with sawdust). It's sold as glue but is it the same stuff?


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## Inspector (31 Aug 2019)

Use the same resin you will be glassing it with. 

A bathroom scale would do for the weight. I was only curious.

Pete


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2019)

Inspector":21c8rzic said:


> Use the same resin you will be glassing it with.
> 
> A bathroom scale would do for the weight. I was only curious.
> 
> Pete



As I understand it, a wooden board will be a smidgen heavier than a "traditional" foam board, but apparently your first one is always heavier - they get lighter as you get the hang of it.

When I was 7, my first woodworking project was a small (foot long) model boat. We had a U-shaped profile board that was the required cross-section outline/profile shape of the hull, which crayon was rubbed on, and then this was rubbed along the block of wood - where the blue crayon rubbed off and marked the wood was removed with a spokeshave. When everything went blue, you were done. Would this work for the rails to get a consistent shape? I have never seen it done since, but my woodwork teacher was pre-war, very old school. Chalk may make less mess perhaps? Bear in mind I was 7, and this was a very, very long time ago.


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## Chris152 (31 Aug 2019)

The problem with that method is that the profile of the rails constantly changes shape along the length - using the gauge novocaine recommended means you can compare the left and right profile at various points along the length. 
As for weight, really not sure about how to keep it down. Lighter wood, obviously will help - lighter glue? The top must be down to 5mm across most of the width so no room there for less. Is plywood heavier then WR cedar, for example (the whole underside of this one is ply). 
Maybe cardboard's the answer for the next one?! https://sheldrake.net/surfboards/index.html


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2019)

Because it is full of air, it is more boyant than a standard board so once it's in the water, you'll never know the difference.

So I'm told, anyway.

Weight is always the bugbear, which is why I may use a couple of little bits of olive wood for detail (perhaps the nose block?) but there is no way I would be able to use it extensively, because olive wood has the density of plutonium. I am thinking about a veneer detail, some kind of cool image, but no idea how to achieve it.

Anyway, this is your (very cool) WIP, and I keep muscling in on it, which is a worry because, unlike Novacaine, I have no idea what I'm doing. Still, you should be in the water soon - just the last little bit to go, the easy-peasy glassing. (Have just learned about off-gassing from wood if the temperature rises as you put the glass on - needs static or cooling temperature. That is going to be a huge problem for me, unless i wait a couple of months. Enough about me!)


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## Inspector (31 Aug 2019)

My question about the weight is not to judge but to roughly compare it to other small watercraft like a stitch and glue kayak or cedar strip canoe. I have never touched much less stood on a paddle board so wouldn't know a lightweight one from an anchor. :wink: If you don't want to say or can't get it into the bathroom to weigh it that's okay.  

Pete


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## Trainee neophyte (31 Aug 2019)

My knowledge of paddleboard (14' - on a par with canoes) is that they are roughly the same weight as the foam & fibreglass equivalent. Apparent!y most people are a few kilos overweight on their first, but work out how to get things more lightweight once they get a bit of practice under their belts. You can actually make them even lighter than commercial boards, if you are very careful and are prepared to compromise on strength. 

https://sliverpaddleboards.com/faq



> How much heavier is a wood board than a comparable foam board?
> The weight of a Sliver Paddleboard is usually within 10% of the weight of a quality foam board. Our main goal has never been to build the lightest board possible since the weight is very hard to feel in the water. Even though weight isn’t the first priority all the excess material is machined from our fishbone kits because nobody wants to have to carry a heavy board.


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## novocaine (1 Sep 2019)

Unless its a balsa board it will be heavier. Don't fret it. Combined denisty of wood and air vs density of expanded pu. You'll be reet. 
It wont kick and flick but it isnt the right design of board for that anyway, its a cruiser where bit more weight is going to help (think mini maui). 

Weight issue will be carrying it to the blue stuff. You can drop weight by thining the nose and tail, keep the thickness on the rails and mid section. You'll also be able to remove more from the ribs.

Compared to a kayak or the like,it will be lighter.


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## Chris152 (1 Sep 2019)

The boy's wearing me thin - got back from last night's surf after dark and we were up at 5 this morning for another. The air's starting to get cold, so I think a camper conversion might be my next WIP (driving winds and icy rain while changing in car parks doesn't work so well with my old bones any more). 

On weight, this is from the Otter surfboards website:
'As a result of how we make them, they tend to finish about 30% heavier than a traditionally made polyurethane board. At first this seemed like it was undesirable, but we then developed shapes with this in mind, leaning towards the outlines of the single fins and twin fins that are all about glide and momentum, which is allowing us to see the real potential of making boards the way we do.'
As I think novocaine's suggesting, wood's possibly not the way to go for a short, thin thruster but for old school (which is most certainly more my style) wood sounds fine. I might try to borrow some bathroom scales so I can check, Inspector - it'd be good to know and to think about.


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## Chris152 (1 Sep 2019)

Got me wondering so I went next door. Our wooden board weighs 7.5 kg at the moment - that'll be about 1.5kg more once it's glassed if I've read the right things and understood. I checked a similar size PU board that we have and that weighs in at 5.5 kg. My 9'4" longboard weighs 8.2 kg and is considered a heavy board. The wooden board will certainly have some momentum!
We could change the rails/ deck transition to be more conventionally rounded (rather than having the abrupt change I mentioned before) and lose a bit of weight that way, and the tail and nose could be thinner, which would lose a little more.




(remember, the deck thickness is now about 5mm - looks much bigger in the pic!) but I don't think it's going to make a hell of a lot of difference. Loads of momentum...


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## Chris152 (2 Sep 2019)

To add to the weight equation, I remembered that this board's thicker than the similar length PU board I weighed - so the PU board would need more foam, glass and resin to be comparable.




Anyway, on with the filling and final sanding!


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## Chris152 (5 Sep 2019)

Top glass coat on




It went on ok, currently hardening. I put a band of blue masking tape on the apex of the rails to make a line to glass the bottom to, followed by regular masking tape attached only at the top edge to stop the resin running down the rails and underneath. I'll cut the excess off with a scalpel in a couple of hours before it gets too hard, leave overnight and then do the base glass coat tomorrow.
Tape/ excess off:


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## novocaine (6 Sep 2019)

Thanks looking superb Chris. the resin has made that cheap timber you were worried about really pop, it looks fantastic now. 

I'd be tempted to leave the top with the woven rather than gel it. 
underside will need to be gelled though, so it can be sanded smooth without cutting the fibres. 

key the join on the rail with a scuff of sand paper if you can.


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## Chris152 (6 Sep 2019)

I wondered about keeping the texture, novocaine, but surfing in South Wales the water has a lot of silt in it and we (relatively) often have to clean the wax off to keep it fresh as it gets heavily impregnated - and I think the dirty wax would be really tricky to get out of the texture. 
Have to say, I was very pleased with the result - when I was getting ready I was nervous, so much to get right and so little time (I thought), and easy to ruin all our hard work. In practice, temp was quite low and it didn't really start to harden for about an hour. 

In the vids I'd been watching they just used a squeegee to spread the resin, but after your advice I bought brushes too - which was just as well, as I found applying resin to the rails hard with a squeegee (kept pulling the glass out of alignment) but easy with the brush. Thank you for that (as well as all your other advice), definitely saved the day.


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## novocaine (6 Sep 2019)

heres your next fibre glass challenge.  



hover dad by David Rees, on Flickr

I can see why you'd want a smooth top, hadn't considered pulling wax off (it's been a long time since I had that problem). If I didn't live in the middle of the country I think I'd be following your lead and building myself a long board, not worth it for the 2 days a year I'd get chance to use it though, might as well higher a foamy for the day., or stay on the beach with the kite and board.


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## Chris152 (7 Sep 2019)

I had one of these in mind for the next project, can't be that tricky. 




Definitely a good idea to rent something for few days per year, and foamies seem to have improved a lot recently - all kinds of shapes and sizes, some becoming popular with regular surfers. 
Finish coat today and tomorrow, then I'll be back asking for advice on routing out for the fin box. That said, I'm tempted to make our own fin and set it straight into the board - if it did ever snap, we could re-route it and replace or route larger and set the fin box in its place. One step at a time, tho...


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Sep 2019)

novocaine":1d4h7x2d said:


> heres your next fibre glass challenge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Got any water near you at all? River, lake, reservoir, puddle? That's why God invented paddleboards - although it's looking like the entire world is taking it up, badly, so there may be credibility issues. How about a strip built kayak?


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Sep 2019)

Chris152":f11oxgyf said:


> I had one of these in mind for the next project, can't be that tricky.
> 
> Definitely a good idea to rent something for few days per year, and foamies seem to have improved a lot recently - all kinds of shapes and sizes, some becoming popular with regular surfers.
> Finish coat today and tomorrow, then I'll be back asking for advice on routing out for the fin box. That said, I'm tempted to make our own fin and set it straight into the board - if it did ever snap, we could re-route it and replace or route larger and set the fin box in its place. One step at a time, tho...



Really impressed - I think now you can fibreglass, this should be your next project - knock it up in a weekend.


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## Chris152 (7 Sep 2019)

Does it have a wave machine, Tn? 

Put it on and walk away, they say (final coat, top):




I put it on as thin as I could without the risk of the texture coming through to keep weight down, but it's tricky to know how much to take off with the brush - I reckon this coat had about half that used in the glass coats. It doesn't really show in the pic, but it has dust specs in the resin which is annoying, but I suppose some's to be expected doing it in the wood workshop. We think it looks great at the mo, let's hope it's still that way in a few hours...


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Sep 2019)

Chris152":1zi1sxnz said:


> Does it have a wave machine, Tn?
> 
> Put it on and walk away, they say (final coat, top):
> 
> I put it on as thin as I could without the risk of the texture coming through to keep weight down, but it's tricky to know how much to take off with the brush - I reckon this coat had about half that used in the glass coats. It doesn't really show in the pic, but it has dust specs in the resin which is annoying, but I suppose some's to be expected doing it in the wood workshop. We think it looks great at the mo, let's hope it's still that way in a few hours...



An outstanding work of heartbreaking beauty. Good work! The only problem as I see it, is you will never get out of the car park to get in the water. "Cool board, man! Did you make it yourself? Can you do me one? Can I have a go?" etc.

I think only the person who does the glass sees the dust. However, some kind of "clean room" with duct tape and plastic might be a way forward. Always remember to buy rope, a shovel and a torch at the same time, because Breaking Bad.


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## Chris152 (7 Sep 2019)

Trainee neophyte":27thh227 said:


> I think only the person who does the glass sees the dust. However, some kind of "clean room" with duct tape and plastic might be a way forward.



Thanks Tn! We took another look and it looks just the same (to my relief) and I saw that what I thought was dust was in fact tiny air bubbles. Not many, and somehow that feels better than dust - I did wonder if I was being over-quick with the brush, I'll know for next time.


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## Trainee neophyte (7 Sep 2019)

Is it time to get it wet yet? Photos or it never happened!


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## Chris152 (7 Sep 2019)

Trainee neophyte":6sqoj95a said:


> Is it time to get it wet yet? Photos or it never happened!


Not yet - top coat goes on the bottom tomorrow, then it's on to fitting the valve, leash plug and routing the fin box. Maybe end of the week. And I'll definitely post a pic of it in use, really looking forward to trying it out! (Tho no doubt I'll be second to try it...)


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## novocaine (7 Sep 2019)

Hair dryer about half way through the cure to pop the bubbles.

Looks spanking that.


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## Chris152 (8 Sep 2019)

Well, that was far from relaxing.




Final coat went on fine, all looking good til I realised that because of the rocker, which is far more pronounced on the bottom than the deck, some resin was running toward the nose and tail. As a result I had to remove that with the brush, then do long strokes front to back to get rid of the brush marks. Don't overwork the resin, they say. It seems I overworked it, as it looked like someone had taken a tiny bubble-blowing machine to the resin. Awful! Not having a hair dryer I hadn't taken one, so I had to jump in the van, drive home, get my hot air gun, drive back and use that on the lowest setting from a safe distance. Much better than it was, but there are still bubbles.




Live and learn, eh? Still, having played the hot air on the board I decided to re-drill the small hole (in case it was blocked since top coat went on the deck) which I made to mark where the air vent's to go and to equalise pressure in case of heat changes while I worked on it, and as I did so the was a gentle shhhhh of air released. So I know the board's air tight...


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## novocaine (9 Sep 2019)

meh. still looks stonking. scary part next. the polishing. start at 800 and work your way up.  it's the bit I find most scary, not sure why. 
I don't think I could have left the underside alone without staining it, it looks really good as is.


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## Chris152 (9 Sep 2019)

Struth, I thought we were done! It hadn't occurred to me that we needed to polish it. So I looked at Silver boards and they say, after the hot coat (which I just did) to do a gloss coat and then a varnish coat!
http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... loss-coat/
and
http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... o-varnish/
That's going to add a load more weight! I prefer the idea of just polishing as you suggest, novocaine - tho a coat of varnish would be ok I guess. I'm off to do some research on other sites to see what's normal for surfboards (as opposed to SUPs). Thanks for the heads up, I was about to start figuring the routing of the fin box.


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## Trainee neophyte (9 Sep 2019)

Is it not something to do with UV protection? Perhaps surfboards aren't in the sun as much as SUPs, or perhaps in the UK it just doesn't matter (no sun = no UV)?

Edit: https://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddlebo ... o-varnish/


> It is recommended that epoxy is finished with some sort of varnish with UV protection. Some epoxy companies claim to have UV protection but it is nowhere near the amount of protection that varnish provides. Traditional boat building varnishes like Epifanes are great for boats but may be too soft for paddle boards. Most of what you read about varnish is based on boats that are outside twenty four seven. Most paddle boards are stored inside or in a board bag and it’s questionable if any finish is actually required. The biggest benefit of varnish in my opinion is that it’s an easy way to both protect the board and make it look awesome!!


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## Chris152 (9 Sep 2019)

Hmmm, this video (which I linked to a few pages back, but obviously didn't take in properly) uses a thin paste coat over the glass coat before the hot coat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKnbOpC_mic
So in theory, I've just done a thick paste coat and it still needs a hot/ gloss coat. But the question is, does it need it given that my paste coat isn't 'thin' and is glossy?! 
Do you think the paste coat is just to give a better finish, so the final coat goes on to a completely smooth surface as opposed to the texture of the glass weave? The finish I have now looks pretty good (overlooking the bubbles - the weave can't be felt when I run my hand across it) and sanding and polishing would make it a better finish again.
And yes, I read that Tn - UV protection (it'll be stored inside when not in use, so probably not such an issue - especially given the limited direct sunlight here in South Wales(!), but also coz it looks good. 

Can't believe I've not noticed this process, I must've watched that video 4 times and not spotted the paste coat, so bleedin obvious!

Edit - I found this:
https://greenlightsurfsupply.com/pages/ ... ide-page-4
Useful on the sanding and polishing stage, and says the following:
'Gloss coats are essentially a second hot coat that is fine sanded, compounded, and polished to a shine. Typically, gloss coats are found on longboards and retro-style boards, where weight isn’t a factor. Adding a gloss coat increases the weight of your board, so typically high-performance shortboards skip a gloss coat and are considered done after fine sanding the hot coat to 400 grit or so.' (Terms are used differently on different sites - what's elsewhere the paste coat seems here to be called the hot coat.)
This isn't a high performance short board by any means, but I'm confident there's a good amount of resin on there already for strength, so we'll get on with polishing.

Novocaine - they refer to surfboard polish, which I don't have - can you remember what you used for that final stage? Are there any more readily available polishes for resin?


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## Trainee neophyte (9 Sep 2019)

(homer) Just to let you know - I don't know! Interested to find out. It's a huge learning curve for me. (homer)


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## Chris152 (9 Sep 2019)

Ha, yes, it's definitely like watching Homer trying to build a surfboard!


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## novocaine (9 Sep 2019)

I used G4 cutting compound same as I'd use for any fibreglass polishing (and something I had in 5 litre tubs at the time). I also had access to a machine polisher last time I did it, but it can be done by hand. 

surfboard polish sounds like small bottles of massively marked up normal polish compound to me.  

there is nothing and I mean nothing different between your epoxy or a standard epoxy, but as ever, someone, somewhere will want to niche a product and make out like it's the only way.


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## Chris152 (9 Sep 2019)

novocaine":1xvnbsq8 said:


> surfboard polish sounds like small bottles of massively marked up normal polish compound to me.



That's what I thought - so specific! Could I use a ROS on the slowest speed and minimum orbit size with a buffing pad to do the polish? That's kind of what they use on cars, right?


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## novocaine (9 Sep 2019)

maybe. a DA is a bit quicker than ROS but I can't see why it wouldn't work, not tried it though.


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## Chris152 (9 Sep 2019)

Have to say, few things are as pleasurable as wet sanding your wooden surfboard in the back garden in the pouring rain - wonderful! 

The website I linked to above (Greenlight Surfboard Building) says to use 
'wool compounding bonnet and compounding liquid' first, then 'surfboard polish (finer grit) and foam polishing pad'
- do you think there's a difference between these two, or do I just use cutting compound and leave it at that? 
Sorry to be the source of endless questions.

eta: I'm really grateful you mentioned sanding and polishing, novocaine. It's now back in the house and drying, and I really like the relatively muted finish I've got with 1200 grit. Tempted to keep it that way! The colour works better with polish tho, so I guess I'll go ahead and do that - but I can already see the surface is way better than it was this morning.


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## novocaine (9 Sep 2019)

Hit it with g4 then see.


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## Horsee1 (10 Sep 2019)

Amazing project and an enviable stock of wood in the background of some of your photos. 

Look forward to seeing it in the water.


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## Chris152 (10 Sep 2019)

Thanks Horsee, we're really enjoying the build and I'm looking forward to starting the next one! 

Looking much better than it was yesterday morning - the finish is more level (less watery, if you know what I mean?!), not quite as shiny but we've (I've) decided to stop here rather than move to another compound:





As I read about and watched vids of final sanding and polishing, I realised it seemed less about woodwork and surfboards, more about automotive finishes, and thought it'd be a good idea to visit a friend who deals in classic cars. When I got there this morning, one of them was in the process of cutting back the paint on a car - he showed me how to do it on the car and on the tail of our board, and I left with 2000 and 3000 g soft-backed discs and buffing disc for my ros and a tube of G3 (couldn't find G4 on the Farécla site, and only larger quantities on ebay - maybe they're not making it any more? G3, G6 and G10). 
Very pleased with the way it's looking now, on to routing for the fin box next. #-o


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## novocaine (10 Sep 2019)

same process as a car. g3 is fine, quite likely that g4 isn't available anymore. I don't do much these days and definitely not on any real scale so I tend to use scratch remover or a wax held compound on a buffer wheel. I'm planning to varnish my guitar kit build so will be buffering that out by hand. 

looks awesome, but I've said this enough times now. get a fin on it and get it in the water, before you wave bye bye to the rubbish weather and hello to the really rubbish weather.


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## Chris152 (10 Sep 2019)

The weather gets bad, but the swell gets better - we've got the remnants of Dorian arriving the end of the week!

Ok, last questions (we all hope), if I may. 
What kind of router bit do I need to rout for the fin box? I have use of a 1/4" plunge router, all (3 of) my bits just cut edges - it needs to plunge then cut along. And what diameter bit can I go for? I was planning to do 5mm depth passes, working to the depth of the box (some will be cut off the height of the box after fitting) and then a little depth for resin. 
And finally, how much gap do you think I need for the resin under and around the box, leash plug and vent?
Thanks.


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## novocaine (10 Sep 2019)

2 options. hog out the waste with a suitable drill bit then use a template and a guide bush. 2 use a dado bit with a template. 3. use a top bearing cutter and a template. I'd still take out as much of it as possible with a drill, also, masking tape and super glue to hold the template down. 
I'd be leaving more room than needed, you can always add a packer to take up the space if needed. 1mm all round maybe.


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## Chris152 (11 Sep 2019)

Looking at routing options, is this an alternative to using a guide bush in the template?




(http://sliverpaddleboards.com/paddleboa ... a-fin-box/ - from Silver paddle boards) 
The edge of the base runs around the inside edge of the frame?
I'm asking because the plunge router I had use of sounds awful (rattling) and I don't fancy using it. I can get a plunge attachment for my Katsu router by tomorrow, but as far as I can see it doesn't have an option to attach the guide bush (or at least, not the de walt bushes we have - so that'd mean more expense).


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## novocaine (11 Sep 2019)

Yep, that'll work. 

I use my Katsu for this sort of thing all the time. normally with a bearing bit, but I've done like you show before for a book slot on a project. Start with router tilted so the bit isn't in the wood then slowly tilt till it's flat. job jobbed. 

I've also used the normal base like a plunge by just nipping on the quick release leaver and slowly pushing down. might not recommend this though. 

oh, put an end stop on as well as the sides.


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## Chris152 (11 Sep 2019)

That's great. If I use a 10mm diameter bit, will the katsu be ok for the final 26mm cuts - that depth of bit's not too much for it to handle?

edit - just realised, apparently a 25mm bit is about the limit of what the router can handle and that won't reach the bottom of the mortise, especially allowing for the depth of the jig! Back to the drawing board.

another edit! Would it be an option to make a jig that guides the router's movement, but with the router base directly on the board? So, just the frame (in the above photo) without the jig's ply base?


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## novocaine (11 Sep 2019)

Yep. Be fine to simply attach a rail too the board and guide the router along it. 
You arent taking 1 cut so 25mm bit is fine. 3-4mm each pass. You can run it out on the shank a bit to so you get a deeper final cut. Say 10mm of shank stuck out the collet. 

How to attach something without destroying the finish.

https://youtu.be/ub6PsY4cgwg


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## Chris152 (11 Sep 2019)

Thanks for your continued efforts to help, novocaine. 
I've realised the fly in the ointment with my cunning plan 17b:




Without a base to the jig, the router will tilt as it sits on the V so it won't cut vertical sides. Any packing would have to level the base of the router continuously in its movement from side to side, which isn't likely to be easy.
Looks like I'll have to go with the full jig and rent a more suitable router (only £20 for a day quite nearby, so not so bad I guess). Hmmm.... #-o


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## Bm101 (11 Sep 2019)

I have the tilt base for the makita Chris (in fact I bought the whole kaboodle) Should fit your Katsu. If it's any use I can post it long as you send it back after! PM me if (or any other bits) are any use. 
Board is looking bangin'! =D> 
8)
Regards
Chris


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## Chris152 (11 Sep 2019)

Thanks Chris - that's really kind of you. Kicking myself for being too tight to buy the complete kit from katsu in the first place, and to keep things as safe as possible I just ordered the plunge base earlier! 
But I think maybe it wouldn't be necessary to use a tilt base - if I make the jig using a 5mm ply base, I can cut to a depth of 20mm with the cutter in the normal position and then, if I can move the cutter out in small stages (v small passes and most of the wood already removed with a forstner bit) up to 6mm, that should reach the required depth (26mm). I just tried it with 6mm of shank sticking out the collet (tho didn't make a cut) and there's still plenty for the collet to hold firmly onto (tho I really don't know what I'm talking about). I guess it's not going to make for the cleanest cuts in the final passes as it'll vibrate some, but the final cuts will be hidden under the fin box.

stop press - I can get 3mm hardboard at Wickes for £not-too-much, reducing the amount the cutter needs to come out of the collet to 4mm.


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## Bm101 (11 Sep 2019)

No worries mate. *fistbump.


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## novocaine (12 Sep 2019)

wouldn't fret to much on vibration, it's going to be pretty minimal. 

I'd still be tempted to drill out most of the waste before you cut the slot, reduce the amount of work the router has to do. that's just me though.


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## Chris152 (12 Sep 2019)

The plan's to remove the edge in 3mm steps and every second step (6mm) remove the centre with a forstner bit - it should only be 6mm width that needs removing from the centre. I thought to do this so the cutter gets an even cut, no bumpy bits, but doesn't have to reach down a channel too deeply. I've just had my first plays with the plunger attachment, seems fine (tho just as clumpy in adjustments as the regular attachment for my katsu) but I want to keep everything as un-challenging as possible!

I have a limited amount of wood that'll be left at the bottom of the mortise so don't want to drill away right to the bottom, in case I go too far (especially with that spiky bit at the centre of the forstner). Is there a direction or method to using the router to clean out/ level the bottom? I know to go clockwise with the cuts around the edges.


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## Chris152 (12 Sep 2019)

Meanwhile...




Cutting the holes was a bit nerve racking but went fine, but the resin for the leash plug found a tiny hole and the level kept dropping! Removed the plug, cleared it out and bunged it up with araldite epoxy (which is thicker) and glued it in with that instead. Hopefully no conflict between the two types of epoxy, but if it pulls out I'll just have to clean the recess and re-glue. I still need to put a little bead around each insert to ensure nothing can seep between the very top of the plastic and the board (cleaning off the excess removed a little from each).


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## Horsee1 (13 Sep 2019)

I don't think you'll need to bother with clearing waste with a drill if your doing inremental depth adjustments with your router. If the router can't fall into the middle then just run it round clock wise, working in and across and you'll be fine.

I may have missed something as you've clearly got this under control and I'm back here to see how it's coming along, not offer advice on sucking eggs.


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## Chris152 (13 Sep 2019)

Thanks Horseee - on the egg-sucking front, I'm still at the actually trying to suck rather than blow stage when it comes to routering - and woodworking in general. So no advice unwelcome! I'm going to have a practice on some scrap today, once the dust extracting attachment arrives (didn't realise the plunger didn't come with one so had to put in another order). I'll have a go with and without the drill to see what happens. Cheers.

This is the setup I have in mind (with clamps for the cross pieces) to hold the template in place - the masking tape/ super glue method won't work as it can't sit flat. Wedges to keep it level on the convex section of base. The hole in the hardboard needs routing before I can align properly, then it's off to the workshop.


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## Chris152 (13 Sep 2019)

Routing done!




Honestly, you wouldn't believe the adrenalin running through me before the first cut. I couldn't find a scrap the right size to practice on, but having cut the hole in the cardboard base of the jig, I knew the dimensions were right so decided to crack on.




First cut - I used thinner strips to clamp the jig down as the ones I mocked up (above) were too thcik to allow the handles of the plunger full movement, and the extraction attachment hadn't arrived so instead I put a 100mm extractor at the back and worked with a respirator, which was ok (though some dust built up in the jig enough to stop the router making full movement to the edges on a couple of cuts, so I had to stop and clean up). 

As you can see in the first photo, some of the holes I drilled in the stringer and ribs now appear and need bunging up before we pour in the resin - I thought to use sawdust and wood glue, good idea or bad?


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## novocaine (13 Sep 2019)

I'd be tempted to go slightly deeper and glue a piece in the base of the hole before you fill with resin. only needs to be 2mm more.


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## Chris152 (13 Sep 2019)

novocaine":959kqp5h said:


> I'd be tempted to go slightly deeper and glue a piece in the base of the hole before you fill with resin. only needs to be 2mm more.


Doh! Missed this, just got back in from filling with glue and sawdust. Looks fine and as long as it stops any leaks, should be ok. I'll remember for next time not to drill holes where the support for the fin box will go. 
Once that's dry, just the attaching of the box and we can get it in the sea! Swell tomorrow, then it goes flat for days...


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## Trainee neophyte (13 Sep 2019)

Chris152":37q9y37s said:


> novocaine":37q9y37s said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be tempted to go slightly deeper and glue a piece in the base of the hole before you fill with resin. only needs to be 2mm more.
> ...



It is really, really important that all the epoxy has a good week with flat calm conditions, so it can set properly before it gets wet and dinged. (I may be lying, but it might make you feel better?)

Good news - another tropical storm in the Bahamas, so give it 7-10 days, and surf's up!


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## Chris152 (13 Sep 2019)

Trainee neophyte":hskkkgb7 said:


> It is really, really important that all the epoxy has a good week with flat calm conditions, so it can set properly before it gets wet and dinged. (I may be lying, but it might make you feel better?)
> 
> Good news - another tropical storm in the Bahamas, so give it 7-10 days, and surf's up!



Actually that does make me feel better! I'd not read/ seen that - I'm sure getting the fin facing exactly right is important, but was also wondering if I should get on with it this evening ready for tomorrow - another big mistake averted at the last moment. (homer)


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## Chris152 (14 Sep 2019)

After a while staring down the board I start to go googley-eyed. I'm sure the two sides of the V aren't perfectly symmetrical but the squares help with alignment, together with a small piece of red plastic in the centre at the nose end.





As you fiddle the box into alignment, the resin spills over the top, some gets wasted and the resin level ends up too low, so I need to do another very small batch once it's tacky/ once it's dry (which is better?) to raise the level again to the same as the board. Then I have to saw and sand away the excess of the fin box.
One thing that's disturbed me is that that fin's off the board I usually ride (I'm not buying another fin til I know this board works ok), which means I can't surf today unless the resin gets its skates on and hardens... :?

edit - what kind of saw do you think would be best for removing the excess from the box? Something without a back - a Japanese saw?


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## Chris152 (15 Sep 2019)

I used a backless flexible saw I'd picked up in Lidl, seemed ok tho it did get a bit close to the woodwork at one point!




Sanding the excess finbox was pretty scary, scuffed the finish a couple of times but nobody's going to notice:




Anyhoo, apart from putting a tiny bead around the air vent and leash plug (which I think I'll try to do with a syringe), WE'RE DONE!!!












Just the one photo to add (the one that really matters) but it looks like we're going to have to wait til the end of the week for that one. 
Thanks to all for your support, especially novocaine - that's two projects you've talked the boy and me through (remember the Seagull motor?!), and Tn - roll your sleeves up and get started!
C


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## novocaine (15 Sep 2019)

Stunning Chris. Looks amazing.

You could have used a block plane to cut the fin box down (sorry i didnt see it yesterday) but a flush cut saw is just as correct a tool if not more so. 
A weeks curing time seems about right. 
Is the next project to sew a bag for it?


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## Chris152 (15 Sep 2019)

novocaine":1ruuo4c0 said:


> Is the next project to sew a bag for it?



Don't ask about the next project! I was heading to bed last night when, feeling a bit more confident about making watercraft, I thought I might just take a quick look at boats to build - a long-time dream of mine. Among the quite unrealistic 1950s sports boats I imagine, I found this a couple of hours later:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/aw- ... ans-id.htm
plywood skin, and apparently 'Anyone with a basic knowledge of woodworking should be able to make this boat' (they seem to be quite realistic about skills needed - not that I'd know. I've seen the warnings on here about building your own boat!) Study plans at https://s3.amazonaws.com/planswalters/M ... +plans.pdf 
I woke up this morning later than usual, but it still seems like a possibility. I'd have to empty the garage of all but essentials and it'd still only leave 1' either end, plenty of space either side, and I can cut and prepare wood elsewhere. The long term plan's to move by the sea in about 5 years time, should have it finished by then...
I might have one or two questions along the way, best ignore them from the outset! ha.


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## Bm101 (15 Sep 2019)

Great project, interesting thread and a fantastic result Chris. Hats off to both you and your lad for getting round the obstacles and building a beautiful board. The use of timbers in the stripes gives it a magic look. _Proper_ Old School. 8) 
We want vids of you hanging 10 next fella. 
I was a skater many many moons back. Proper into it for years. I only went surfing once with some mates. One surfer, the others like me had never surfed. It was in Devon and hardly big waves. Skating history did me ok and I nailed the hop up to feet well enough for first try. That was about it, but enough to get a feel. I really enjoyed carving big drifts doing some minor downhill stuff as a kid and you could tell that skating came from these roots. The balance was different, suppose thats's a no brainer when you take physics into account. I'd love to have a go again mind! I can see why some people get lost in it.
Great thread Chris, thanks for sharing.

[youtube]66-sCRx4QRI[/youtube]


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## Trainee neophyte (15 Sep 2019)

The really cool thing is how quickly you got this fnished. No "three years in the making, with a cast of thousands", just bish, bash, bosh, job done. Looks really smart. A few spins out on the water, and you're going to want another one, to try out a different design. Just change the rails about, and perhaps....

I have lost all enthusiasm today, but cider and sleep will sort that out. I need to get cracking because come November, I won't have any time for anything except work. Ideally I would like to get on the water before then. Consider this a call to action - everything ordered by the end of the week, I promise. 

About your duckworks boat - perhaps something with a sail? A catamaran you can hang out over the water and get 15-20 knots with. Small, easy to build, portable, and goes like stink. Save the mini gin palace for when you are retired. Maybe a windsurfer? It's just a paddleboard with a sail stuck on the front. Need for speed! 

Congratulations, well done, and it will be the first of many. If nothing else, your son's mates will all be putting orders in. (hammer)


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## Fitzroy (15 Sep 2019)

Great build thread, looks super sweet, can’t wait for the money shot! 

Fitz.


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## novocaine (16 Sep 2019)

I always get worried when I see plans with loads of pretty rendering but real pictures, I wonder if the designer has ever actually built it. 

It doesn't look like there is enough bracing and the lack of gunwale on such a thin ribbed structure would worry me. a quick google shows at least one person has built one though, so I'm sure it will be fine really. 

The lack of down below for the cabin boy is a worry but I'm sure you could find other euphemisms to spout in a salty seadog kind of way.  

I'm off to look at canoe plans again. after I've done the guitar, after I've done the new kitchen, after I've done the car, after I've done the bike, after I've done the garden, after I've done the conservatory roof, after I've done the sword for the kids, after I've done the new table, after I've done the......... just after I think.  married live is hard  .


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## NickM (16 Sep 2019)

I love it. Well done.


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## Chris152 (16 Sep 2019)

Thanks fellas - we're very happy with it, and if it doesn't work so well in the water it'll look good on the wall Now it's on with the next, which will be a 9' noserider, just trying to find the right design. 

Chris - I think all the board sports are kind of similar in basic principle and muscle memory shifts from one to the others. A good friend who got me into surfing moved to Canada many years back and started snowboarding (which he'd not really done before), about 10 years later he sent me an article in ski Canada about how he and another bloke launched snowboarding on the east coast! Seriously, if you're ever over this way and want to have a bash in the sea let me know, we'll take you if there is any swell. But don't expect waves like in that vid - nor surfing to match (at least not from me!) - brilliant noseriding, he looks pretty much at home on a board. 

Tn - I know, I know - that design's more the kind of thing you really want to park up in a boat house at the end of the garden after a day playing in the sunshine, which won't be happening! Less a dream, but more realistic is a decent size rowing boat with a motor that can have a sail occasionally. Ho hummm... 

novocaine - Thing is, you've let the cat out of the bag already - you clearly know about boat design and could be a wonderful source of advice and info, once again! ha. 

I won't be doing a wip of the next board but will post it up in the 'Post a photo' thread - could be a while before it appears tho, especially if I find a do-able boat design! Thanks again, C

ps, Tn - one thing I'd try for the next build is to make a steam box for the rails - doing them with an iron in situ can be tricky as, as you've seen in my efforts, doing it in situ can cause the dried glue beneath to release, and because I had to wait til the glue on each strip was fully dry before doing the next strip (next day). I think that if you steamed several at a time in a box, you could slide them out individually, clamp into place, then add the next, and so on, then leave to fully dry in shape before glueing all in one go (with careful clamping I guess -each will need appropriate pressure). That way, you could get maybe half of each rail done in a day? That said, I've never used a steaming box...


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## novocaine (16 Sep 2019)

I know nothing.


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## Chris152 (22 Sep 2019)

The problem with surfing and photographing is that it's tricky to do both at the same time. Soooo, knowing that the swell would drop through the morning, I finally got out of the sea to get the camera once the swell was on its way out. Still, I got a few shots of the boy putting the board in action, albeit in diminished and now crumbly waves. Neither of us has surfed a single fin before, it needs smooth turns and doesn't like anything too quick, but it moves with the wave really well, we love it!

Waiting. And waiting...












Happy days!


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## Trainee neophyte (22 Sep 2019)

Chris152":3uyf4jv1 said:


> The problem with surfing and photographing is that it's tricky to do both at the same time. Soooo, knowing that the swell would drop through the morning, I finally got out of the sea to get the camera once the swell was on its way out. Still, I got a few shots of the boy putting the board in action, albeit in diminished and now crumbly waves. Neither of us has surfed a single fin before, it needs smooth turns and doesn't like anything too quick, but it moves with the wave really well, we love it!
> 
> Waiting. And waiting...
> 
> ...



Outstanding!
So - how many more will you build, and what changes? I've just seen your steambox idea - people use pvc drainpipe, but a few planks nailed together also works, I believe. I would love an excuse to have one, but the first build won't have strip rails - more of a canoe type of thing. Order for plans may go in today, if I don't have a gas/plumbing crisis. Currently it's a minor problem, but I'm just about to get the spanners out. If you hear a loud bang...


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## Chris152 (23 Sep 2019)

We'll probably just do one or two more - a 9' longboard and then (maybe) a short board, something like a fish (thick, wide and lots of volume to offset weight). Two problems - 1. I'm going to have to reorganise a spare room to do the build in as it'll be longer and a pita in a room we're trying to use - which is quite a lot of work moving stuff around; 2. with my *slightly* more realistic hat on, I'm now seriously thinking to build one of these this winter - https://www.storerboatplans.com/boatpla ... ghtweight/ - which will involve a complete reorganisation and some emptying of the garage. I'm not one for reorganising. 

Apart from changing the method of steaming the rails, the only real differences I'd make to the board build (apart from avoiding the obvious errors) are: use decent quality and light wood top, bottom and rails (the one we just did is heavy, and you certainly wouldn't want the 9' equivalent landing on your head); cut the nose and tail blocks (rather than each being one piece) so they're book-matched;and keep the resin warm before use (cold can be the cause of the bubbles I got, apparently). I'd also like to get the ribs cnc routed this time - trying to be accurate with the bandsaw around the tight curves was difficult and tedious, after a while staring at a black line with a white background made my eyes go funny. But Fyne won't sell digital plans, so I might have to either go elsewhere or get the paper plan scanned. Those are the ones that leap to mind. 

Hope you got your plumbing sorted and put in that order! 

ps On weight for your SUP, it might be worth considering Gaboon (Okoume) ply - I'd not heard of it, and it's expensive, but they recommend it on the dinghy build link above as it's significantly lighter than regular ply.


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## Trainee neophyte (23 Sep 2019)

Okoume is what they all say to use - no idea where to source it here. I may have to go with the nasty, cheap stuff they use to skin internal doors - will have to see what is available. 

Mostly we don't have a huge portage: park the car next to the lake, throw the board in and step off. Very civilised. The lake connects to the sea, so it's about 10' of struggle to get in. Still going to be heavy, though, and 14' long it's going to be like single-handedly launching an aircraft carrier.

The skiff looks perfect - I am convinced I need one of those, as we have lots of flat water and light breezes, it will fit on a roof rack, and we can go island hopping for extra smugness points. My brother put the dampeners on it by saying it will just fall over because it has no keep, but he spends lots of time on boats in mad weather whilst drilling for oil. Need a paddleboard first, though, and I quite fancy a windsurfer, although we don't get hugely windy here, except in the afternoon which is summer siesta time.

Frankly the list is long. A voyage of discovery. I'm thinking the paddleboard is just a cheap introduction to boat building, and as I get older, I will want to sit more and let something else do all the work. 

Thank you for the WIP, the advice, and the encouragement. Great to hear the board works, and unlike all your plastic ones, this should be indistructable. Eco-friendly, too.

And thanks to Novacaine for his input too (that sounds wrong, somehow) - I learned a lot, and it wasn't even me doing the work!


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## novocaine (23 Sep 2019)

well thats sorted then. looks spanking and whilst the sea wasn't playing fair it looks happy enough. take the fin off if you want a real learning curve . wall paper stripper and piece of drain pipe for steam bending, make sure there is a vent at the other end, also, do it outside, or your workshop will be like a sweat box. 

Looking forward to the longboard, I'm of the age now where that really appeals to me (as a longboard on the land does too). 

the skiff is a wide flat bottom, it'll sit on the rail and assuming you can get your buttocks over the side on a really windy day it's unlikely to tip over. if you haven't sailed before, find somewhere to higher a laser and get some help. I'll stick to boats that need oars. 

surfs not up buddddddy. 



Waveless afternoon. Not an issue. by David Rees, on Flickr


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## Chris152 (24 Sep 2019)

Island hopping in Greece does sound rather good, Tn! The boat'll mainly be for rowing and motoring, maybe sailing on light winds, easy days? Novocaine - I did do rya level 2 dinghy sailing in a Wayfarer years ago but on the last day it was really windy and pouring rain when trying to do the man-overboard drill, so they offered to come back another day and complete it - which of course, I never did). Hmmm, I'm now looking to see if there's a boat that ticks all the boxes and isn't too small. I've a feeling that as time goes by and my bones get more creaky, sailing might be the way forward. Highlander 14 - http://www.selway-fisher.com/GPDinghyover13.htm ?

As for that skateboard, we were in a surf shop the weekend and the boy saw a longboard (skateboard) and announced that we need to build another one of those (we did a couple years back, almost flat decks as I didn't have confidence to laminate and shape in a mould). Is there no end to it?


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## Chris152 (25 Sep 2019)

Just an afterthought/ update, as a few of you've been so kind to take an interest and advise on this build! After a long summer of small swells with light winds, we went in yesterday in a return to our more normal autumn/ winter conditions - strong winds and bigger waves brought by the tail end of storms and worse from the other side of the Atlantic. I was on my longboard and spent most of the time trying to deal with the wind (which tries to pick up the board even when you're sat on it) and spray in my eyes. Sat there, I got to thinking. Being hit by a heavy board can be bad - a friend who longboards in Cornwall's been airlifted twice after boards hitting him and I have a deep-ish scar on my face, just below an eye, where the board flipped (as a result of v bad surfing) and a fin cut me. 

Anyhoo, stop rambling. I think I'm not going to build a longboard yet - weighing in at 1/3 more than a PU board, assuming I can get the build weight down to professional levels, that's going to do a lot more damage to a body than a PU board. I might think differently as the weather changes but that'll be next spring, so sights now set on that dinghy and a winter of boat building. I'm really excited to get going on that one and will do another wip (contain yourselves)...


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## novocaine (8 Oct 2019)

this popped up on my whotube feed this morning. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6WgxF1TVXY

an interesting (if a bit wasteful) technique that I feel needs some more exploration, I could see it being a considerable less tool intensive approach.


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## Chris152 (8 Oct 2019)

I saw a few videos using that method - it looks like more wood is left than the method I used, but it seems you don't need any glass fibre on it so weight can be kept down - I saw one which just used oil (iirc). And it looks less fiddly. I think the problem we have here is the cost of light woods - the only price I could find for balsa was about £500 for a longboard, and I don't think Paulownia is any cheaper. I'd like to try it though.


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## Trainee neophyte (8 Oct 2019)

Chris152":1ndzdo1f said:


> I saw a few videos using that method - it looks like more wood is left than the method I used, but it seems you don't need any glass fibre on it so weight can be kept down - I saw one which just used oil (iirc). And it looks less fiddly. I think the problem we have here is the cost of light woods - the only price I could find for balsa was about £500 for a longboard, and I don't think Paulownia is any cheaper. I'd like to try it though.



Thanks, really interesting - I had a look in the comments, and apparently the deck is 8mm, the bottom 6mm. The blank weighs 25kg before cutting out the chambers, bringing it down to 9-10kg afterwards. I'm looking to make a SUP, so probably double those numbers. Lot of wood thrown away, but looks very easy, provided I can lift it for shaping! I hadn't twigged that it is finished with 2 coats of epoxy, but no glass fibre mat - I just assumed I missed that bit. Would it be better to reduce the skin thickness, but add glass fibre? How thin could you go before worrying about the grain, poking holes etc? 

I must plant some Paulownia - it will be ready to harvest in 10 years - insane tree.


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## Chris152 (8 Oct 2019)

The skin on mine started at 6mm, probably ended up at 5 by the time I'd planed/ sanded it, and my guess is that'd be fine even with no glass (but with resin and good internal support) as long as you're not going into waves? From what I've seen a lot of the weight must be in the supports that divide the chambers, they do look pretty thick - not sure why they leave so much. Have to say, 9-10kg is _very_ heavy for what looks a fairly short board - my 9'1" PU longboard is less than 6kg. With a 20kg SUP, there'd be no stopping you once you get going!


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## Trainee neophyte (8 Oct 2019)

Chris152":15scea44 said:


> The skin on mine started at 6mm, probably ended up at 5 by the time I'd planed/ sanded it, and my guess is that'd be fine even with no glass (but with resin and good internal support) as long as you're not going into waves? From what I've seen a lot of the weight must be in the supports that divide the chambers, they do look pretty thick - not sure why they leave so much. Have to say, 9-10kg is _very_ heavy for what looks a fairly short board - my 9'1" PU longboard is less than 6kg. With a 20kg SUP, there'd be no stopping you once you get going!



With a 20kg sup there'd be no getting going! I think I'm going standard construction for the first one - once I have a shape I like, I can always experiment later. It's not it as if making a board takes much effort, - knock one up in an afternoon - easy peasy. Have the order all assembled and ready to go - but various technology failures are stopping me actually paying the money. I hope it's not fate. Fingers crossed Fyne Boats are patient people.


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