# 90RPM can be scary! - and some saw advice please



## cambournepete (11 Oct 2010)

Bought a yew log at the Ickworth House Wood Fair yesterday and had a play this morning:







It might not look very big but it's 2 1/2 feet long and 12-16 inches diameter and must weigh over 100lbs - even at the lowest speed setting on my DB1200 of 90RPM it was still scary!
The lathe didn't falter though 

Anyway it soon became clear that trying to get one piece out of this log wasn't going to work so I took it outside and hacked it to pieces with my B&D chainsaw. Which was much more scary!

I don't like chainsaws, I'm far too aware I haven't got all the proper safety gear and what might go wrong, even though I'm pretty careful.

So the question is, should I keep the B&D, replace it with something presumably better like this Ryobior get a reciprocating saw (with suitable blade) like this Hitachi?

I know I should get a proper (Stihl) chainsaw and all the gear but I just can't afford or justify it...

Thanks,
Pete

PS I'm linking to B&Q 'cos I've got vouchers for them...


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## Bodrighy (11 Oct 2010)

Why couldn't you get something out of it in one piece?as you say your lathe can take it. Does the head swivel on that lathe?

pete


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## cambournepete (11 Oct 2010)

Bodrighy":1txvbjup said:


> Why couldn't you get something out of it in one piece?as you say your lathe can take it. Does the head swivel on that lathe?
> 
> pete



Because the wood had lots of really soft and rotten bits through it 
Was quite exciting though!

And yes, the head does swivel.


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## Bodrighy (11 Oct 2010)

I don't know what way you have cut it but you could get a good few crazy natural edged bowls out of that. Yew is great for that 

Pete


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## cambournepete (11 Oct 2010)

Hopefully I have cut it so I can do that, but an inch or so under a lot of the bark and some solid wood it some really soft rubbish .

Still, it didn't cost much and is all good practice 

Any thoughts on the saw front?


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## Bodrighy (11 Oct 2010)

I've got a Husqvarna, I don't like electric ones, no power and you are limited where you can use them. Also having a cable around when I'm sawing up logs doesn't give me too much confidence 

Might be worth shopping around. Big soft moose is your best bet for advice, he uses them in his job so probably can give the best advice 

Pete


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## Bodrighy (11 Oct 2010)

Just had a quick look on Ebay. there are quite a few Stihl and Husqvarna saws within your price range so maybe it would be worth watching out for those and biding your time?

pete


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## jurriaan (11 Oct 2010)

I've got a big recipro saw, but the useful blades (long, for wet wood) are not that cheap. Chains can be sharpened, blades must be replaced.

So I bought a second-hand Stihl, an older E20 model, which was formerly used by the fire brigade. Excellent saw for a very good price.


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## big soft moose (11 Oct 2010)

cambournepete":15ebf1b2 said:


> I know I should get a proper (Stihl) chainsaw and all the gear but I just can't afford or justify it...



how much is your life worth ?

If you are going to use chainsaws of any brand you really must get propper PPE (at the very least leggings, gloves, and boots - hard hats are only necessary if you are felling , tho you still need to wear ear and eye pro, which as a turner you presumably have)

I agree that a decent make of chainsaw is desirable - but better to buy the PPE and a cheap make than to buy a stihl without PPE.

If you arent willing to spend out on decent chainsaw protective equipment then my advice is to forget the chainsaw entirely and buy a reciprocator like the aligator or tyranosaw instead.


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## PeterSk (11 Oct 2010)

Good grief! You wouldn't want a catch on that!


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## frugal (12 Oct 2010)

Moose, 

Would this kind of visor be sufficient, or do you need a separate chainsaw specific visor?

I use one of those for my turning, so I wondered if it would be good enough to use with a chainsaw. If so then all I would need were a pair of trousers.


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

frugal":h00m31j2 said:


> Moose,
> 
> Would this kind of visor be sufficient, or do you need a separate chainsaw specific visor?
> 
> I use one of those for my turning, so I wondered if it would be good enough to use with a chainsaw. If so then all I would need were a pair of trousers.



in theory yes - but you do need ear defenders too or you'll wind up with tinitinitus (and only if you're not felling - if you are felling you need a hard hat)

then you need trousers and chainsaw protective boots too - if you wear normal tectors there will be a gap between trouser and toecap that you could stick the blade through and amputate half your foot.


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## cambournepete (12 Oct 2010)

Thanks for the advice chaps.

BSM - what I meant was that I didn't want to spend the money on something that didn't do anything but I get the point to include it in the cost of the saw.

I thought that kickback was an issue with chainsaws?
That Axy mask (which I have as well) wouldn't help with that would it?

It really doesn't help that there are loads of YouTube videos of people chopping up logs with big chainsaws not wearing any safety gear at all. :roll: 

If I were to go the chainsaw route (with the gear) what should I look for in a chainsaw?
I read somewhere that the overhand grip was a bad idea...?


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## Pvt_Ryan (12 Oct 2010)

As far as I am aware there are 2 types of chainsaw, 1 used to fell trees etc and the other to cut a felled tree up. IIRC you can not interchange them for safety reasons. Which is which I don't know.


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## Jonzjob (12 Oct 2010)

The top handle is used to prune and the rear handle for felling and general cutting.

This is a top handle being used to take one of our trees down. The guy is French pro!






Note all of the protective kit and the way he is well balanced and in a safe position as far as the saw is concerned.

The dozy . had no protective gear, he was holding onto a branch about 12 foot up a ladder with the saw about a foot away from his throat! I took the photo and legged it round the back of our house into my workshop!

Not too long after that the neighbour brhind us was cutting up a load of pine for his fire wearing shorts and flip-flops!

The French are really OTT when it comes to safety? :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

Pvt_Ryan":3uvz2tqn said:


> As far as I am aware there are 2 types of chainsaw, 1 used to fell trees etc and the other to cut a felled tree up. IIRC you can not interchange them for safety reasons. Which is which I don't know.



Umm

Not really

I would imagine that you are thinking of top handle vs normal but even then you can use a top handle for work other than pruning

the other possibility is that you are thinkig of ripping chain vs normal - you can fell, cut up and indeed rip with a normal chain (tho ripping abuses the chain) but it isnt a good idea to try to fell or crosscut with a ripping chain on the saw

tbh ive never bother with a ripping chain, but then i only mill freehand - if i was running a logosol rig I'd have a dedicated saw with a ripping chain just for that.


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

cambournepete":1eveqbum said:


> I thought that kickback was an issue with chainsaws?
> That Axy mask (which I have as well) wouldn't help with that would it?



well so long as its impact rated it would protect your face , which is the main hazard with a kick back - however that said if you know what you are doing and have a decent saw with a chain brake kick back isnt likely to be a huge issue when you are logging up - Ive been chainsawing proffesionally since '96 and I can't remember the last time I had a serious kickback except when felling difficult trees or widowmakers (hung up trees balanced in other ones after a storm)

That said if it worries you forestry helmets are only about 25 quid for a basic one (dont buy the white makita ones from axminster as they are rubbish and bits like the ear defs etc fall off in a very short usage time.)




cambournepete":1eveqbum said:


> If I were to go the chainsaw route (with the gear) what should I look for in a chainsaw?
> I read somewhere that the overhand grip was a bad idea...?



I assume by an overhand grip you are talking about a top handle - like the Stihl 200T - those are fine for the experienced user but not really suitable for a beginer and really are designed for use up trees so not necessary for use on the ground

I would suggest that your first choice is electric or petrol

Electic pros are lighter, quiter, quicker to stop, and generally cheaper - the cons are being tied to a electric point, and the possibility of cutting through the cord (rechargeables are uniformly rubbish for extensive use - good for pruning but not much else imo)

Petrol (normal 50:1 two stroke mix) has more power and can go anywhere (such as into the woods to cut up a fallen tree), but are heavier, noisier and cant really be used in the'shop due to fumes

( I have both - but that probably isnt an option if cost is an issue)

In terms of features I would say that an absolute must is a chain brake - often missing from older and very cheap saws, but a second to none safty feature. I would also suggest that you go for no more than a 16" bar and a relatively low powered saw like a stihl 017, 192 or 230 (or cheaper clones thereof) - you dont need lots of power if you arent felling big trees

I run a 192 with a 14" bar as my firewood and turning wood saw, a makita electric with a 12" bar as my 'shop saw, - and keep the heavy iron , ie a 361 with 18" bar and a 048 with 24" bar for the tree felling options

Finally i would suggest keeping some of your budget for some training - I'm not suggesting you go for the full suite of NPTC courses (like wot ive got) as that would cost thousands - but some ag colleges etc run 1 day courses on safe use and maintenance which are are generally under a hundred notes - and will pay fr them selves by teaching you to sharpen etc propperly and thus get more use out of each chain, as well as showing you how to avoid cutting your leg off


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

Jonzjob":bvgrth2f said:


> . The guy is French pro!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



theres a darwin award in the making


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## dickm (12 Oct 2010)

FWIW, the local machinery dealers will only sell top handle saws to person who can produce the relevant certificates, whereas they will sell rear handles to anyone. 
Not sure why - The Moose may know!


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## Jonzjob (12 Oct 2010)

Hence te photo and my VERY quick retreat to my workshop BSM! His mate stayed well clear of him and used a hand pruning saw, quite small and very efficient, when he was up those trees.


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

dickm":2id8po44 said:


> FWIW, the local machinery dealers will only sell top handle saws to person who can produce the relevant certificates, whereas they will sell rear handles to anyone.
> Not sure why - The Moose may know!



probably because , as richardhead above is demonstrating, you can use the top handle one handed (not a good move in most circumstances - but it can be done) - so the risk of unskilled accident is higher.

also tbh the top handle is a piece of proffesional kit - theres no need for an amateur to have one.

My local chainsaw dealer wont sell or hire any kind of chainsaw to anyone unless they produce relevant certification (by which they mean at least NPTC CS30 or the lantra equivalent)

that said while it protects the dealer from litigation - untrained people can still just pop into B&Q or buy one off ebay so its a fairly pointless propsition in the larger scheme of things


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

as far as cambourne pete goes i'd suggest something like this

(the nearest decent one i could find to cambourne)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/stihl-chainsaw-MS ... 2a0ae5542f

also see here for protective equip (nowhere near cambourne but they ship)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CHAINSAW-PROTECTI ... 1c1632c667


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## Jonzjob (12 Oct 2010)

I have had no professional training as such, but a lot of info from pros that I know and the knowledge that if a saw can cut through a huge log with not a lot of effort then human, or any other, flesh and bone is a doddle.

I have the trousers, boots, gloves, ear defenders that stop the noise of military jet engines and my normal glasses are safety glasses. I don't do any more than cutting wood down to the size I want, helping neighbours to clear downed trees and the like. If it looks as if it will be difficult I leave it to the pros and I still have all me bits!

I find it a bind at times when I have to cut a few branches and have to put me gear on, but I always do it! Or I get my Ryobi One reciprocating saw on a 2 metre stick and use that and work on the principle that at a couple of meters away I am doing as I have been told, to keep away from work :shock:


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

Jonzjob":2axe794b said:


> I have the trousers, boots, gloves, ear defenders that stop the noise of military jet engines and my normal glasses are safety glasses.



you really need a fullface visor , or a chainsaw helmet - safety glases arent adequate

otherwise you are running the risk of winding up like this guy (who looks to have been incredibly lucky not to loose an eye)


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## big soft moose (12 Oct 2010)

some good general advice on saw use here


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## mtt.tr (12 Oct 2010)

Off topic but this is so funny/ scary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oCDcTxFUkk


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## boysie39 (12 Oct 2010)

Blister has one of these :lol: 

http://www.abbeypro.co.uk/subprod/husqv ... 01017.aspx


:wink: 

to go with his saw and the rest of the PPE :lol:


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## duncanh (13 Oct 2010)

Something else you should do :-

before every session check that the anti kick-back/inertia brake is working.

At the end of the training course which I did they gave a demo of how effective this is at stopping kick-back very quickly.
Never use a saw without it or where it is damaged or where it doesn't work. If you follow best practice then you probably shouldn't get kick-back but if you do get it then you want the brake to work.


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## cambournepete (21 Oct 2010)

Just to complete the story on the chainsaw...

I have decided to chicken out, and have bought the Hitachi reciprocating saw, now I just need to choose some blades, for which I'll post a separate thread in the advice section.

Anyone want a used B&D chainsaw that leaks oil?


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## UnicycleBloke (21 Oct 2010)

My word! That bloke in the treee is an silly person. I already have some tools which could do me some very serious harm, and treat them with enormous respect. I suspect a chainsaw is in the pipeline, but I won't be doing anything without full safety gear.

One thing, chain saws seem to have a right-hand bias. Since I'm a southpaw, this could be an issue. I can use scissors without leaking claret, but it is often uncomfortable to do so. If chainsaws are like that, such as the blade being uncomfortably close to my left leg, or the controls out of reach, maybe I should think again. Or become dextro...


Al


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## big soft moose (21 Oct 2010)

UnicycleBloke":jx56p5mn said:


> One thing, chain saws seem to have a right-hand bias. Since I'm a southpaw, this could be an issue. I can use scissors without leaking claret, but it is often uncomfortable to do so. If chainsaws are like that, such as the blade being uncomfortably close to my left leg, or the controls out of reach, maybe I should think again. Or become dextro...
> 
> 
> Al



chainsaws are a two handed thing anyway - your right is on the trigger control and your left is on the front handle guiding the saw and working the chainbrake - therefore there is no need for a southpaw to reverse the hand positions and you'll soon get used to it


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## Melinda_dd (21 Oct 2010)

I'm scared of my baby mini lathe, not even gonna consider a chainsaw for about 100yrs!!!


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## cambournepete (3 Jan 2011)

Finally used the reciprocating saw to cut a log today.
Yes it's slower than a chainsaw, but much less scary so I'm happy 

<PS it's my thread so I can resurrect it when I like! :wink:>


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