# Shellac help



## MattMoore (4 Mar 2006)

Afternoon everyone,
I'm just trying my hand at using shellac, and have hit a few issues.
I have bought some dewaxed blonde flakes, crushed them up and added clear meths to it.
I have stirred it every 4 hours or so, then left it last night.
When I came back to it this morning some of the flakes have formed a hard gel at the bottom of the tin.
Is this whats meant to happen? I understood that the flakes shoudl still be floating about and then I need to filter it when I put it into another tin?
Also, when padding it on, I seem to keep getting dry streaks where I overlap strokes.
These did come out when it had dried over night, Is there anything I can do to try and prevent these dry streaks?

Many thanks

Matt


----------



## Jarviser (4 Mar 2006)

That's a heck of a question and the answer is probably contained in several books. You are applying polish in the same way I do - simple straight lines. The key is in the amount of polish that you have in the rubber, the amount of meths in the mix, the speed of application, and the ability to overlap the passes enough to avoid dry lines, but not so much as to have "ropey" edges. I have found the best way is to apply as thinly as possible, to leave it several hours before trying the next coat, and never trying to correct any faults until thoroughly dry. Staggering the next lot of lines so as to have the previous joins under the rubber will help to even it out. You have the luxury to sand and correct and repolish as often as you want, but the key for me is to rapidly apply many (10?) thin coats, and wait for several hours, or overnight, between coats.
Now proper french polishing with figure of 8 strokes and linseed oil and acid finishing - that calls for at least a long course, and at best an apprenticeship.


----------



## MattMoore (4 Mar 2006)

UPDATE:
I have some photos here of the sample of maple I have been using.
The dry streaks have levelled off and a pretty smooth finish has resulted.
Now though there is visible horizontal lines, in the right light that is.









I'm pretty sure that it must be milling marks from the jointer, even thought i spent ten mins or so planing and scraping the board.
I have tried to get some photos of this but it doesnt show all that clearly on a camera. This is the only photo that shows it slightly,
if you look at the reflections, they arent consistent. they deflect slightly and I think this is due to what can only be milling marks I havent removed.




Any ideas anyone?
The piece of maple has had 2 courses of about 5 coats now, should I carry on for a third session. Then use rottenstone to polish further?

Cheers all

Matt[/img]


----------



## Jarviser (4 Mar 2006)

I can't make out much on the screen. Shellac certainly brings out the lovely figure. If they are milling marks, there is no option but to sand or scrape down to bare wood and start again. If it is uneven polish then you could sand back to a flat surface and repolish. You could experiment with some circular or figure of eight polishing with the loaded rubber, and actually reflow the surface and lay it flat. You could sprinkle some linseed oil on the surface, or dab a spot on the rubber to avoid dragging. I presume you are using a rubber made from wadding wrapped in a linen cloth. If this is a test piece, now is the time to play around and see what happens. If it turns into a mess, let it dry and sand it off.
I have found that sanding shellac often builds up little hard lumps on the sandpaper, especially with a random orbit, and in the absence of lubricated paper, I sprinkle talcum powder on first to prevent it building up..


----------



## Philly (5 Mar 2006)

Matt
I'd apply another set of the shellac. Then give it a few days to go off-I find it shrinks down after a couple of days. Then give it a rub out. Try fine wire wool first-it gives a nice uniform shine.
Hope this helps
Philly


----------



## Sam Salter (7 Mar 2006)

Matt, 

I'm new at this too, but didn't have the problems you seem to be having. 

Here's my recent experience: 

I used dewaxed blond flakes in a 1lb cut. That's pretty thin, but as I was new at this I thought it would give me a bit more flow and increased drying time. (That's a 1:8 ratio of shellac to thinner or 1lb in 1 US Gallon - For you metric guys it's 60grams in 1/2 litre of thinner) 
I read that experienced users use 2lb or even 3lb cuts but I thought that would be like using treacle! 

I used lacquer thinner - a mixture of ethanol & isobutyl alcohol. Meths is 95% ethanol with a bit of methanol added to stop people drinking it, so it sounds OK. 

I just put the shellac & thinner in a glass jar & shook it up every now & then. (By the way, my instructions with the shellac said glass or plastic as the shellac will react with a metal can & turn darker) 
It dissolved in a couple of hours with no goop in the bottom. I believe the straining is to get out bug parts not goop! 

I brushed mine on with long strokes & overlapped them slightly. The thin consistency allowed me to more or less keep a wet edge although it did start to dry here & there before I could get back to it. Like someone said earlier, less is better - you don't brush it in like paint. I rubbed down with 0000 steel wool between coats.(It was British steel wool by the way - Liberon - I guess you guys make the best) 

I used 2 coats of orange shellac & 2 coats of blond on a white oak table. I was going to finish with poly - hence the dewaxed blond, but in the end just buffed it up with beeswax.






It worked out real well. I was so pleased with the finish I'm going to use it as often as I can. Beautiful colour (note British spelling used here in Canada) and great depth to the shine.

If you knew all this, ignore it. As a first time user I was so impressed with the results, I'm sorry to hear you didn't have a similar happy experience!

Regards,
sam


----------



## Nick W (7 Mar 2006)

Sam,

Just a word of caution about using wire wool on Oak. Don't! :shock: 

Even if the surface has been sealed, you just don't know when a little bit of wool is going to poke itself through into the wood grain and stick there. The result, maybe not today, but soon, and for the rest of your life (well until you strip it right back) will be a little black stain that appears and slowly spreads. It's a reaction between the tannins in the Oak, the Iron in the wool and water.

Use Webrax or equivalent.

Lovely finish though. Nice table too. =D>


----------



## Jake (7 Mar 2006)

Sorry to ask what is probably a stupid question, but it isn't just the rippled figure you are talking about, is it?


----------



## MIGNAL (9 Mar 2006)

No need to filter dewaxed shellac. just allow it to dissolve in the alcohol. If it takes too long to dissolve i.e. 5 -6 days it may well mean that the flakes have gone bad. Just remember that pre-mixed shellac has a relatively short shelf life of a few months.
If the lines you refer to are due to inadequate surface prep then your only option is to start again - glossy finishes magnify any faults that are on the wood surface. If the lines are a result of the polishing fad then it's just a simple matter of cutting back with a sanding block and 600 grit. You may then continue to build the finish. If you find that you are producing deep lines it usually means that your fad is far too wet.


----------



## engineer one (14 Mar 2006)

i always thought that the goop at the bottom was caused by shellac which had not dissolved. kind of like putting a lot of salt in water, eventually the salt will sink to the bottom .

so would suggest you put more meths in the mixture and try to stir it up again.

as for the finish cannot comment, doesn't look too bad.

but what about that canadian table, when can we see it all???????

give us a picky please :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

paul


----------



## Sam Salter (14 Mar 2006)

Paul,

Thanks for the interest!
Here's a few pics of the completed table.

It's from plans in July 2004's "American Woodworker".
White oak with wenge accents. (They were supposed to be ebony but I couldn't find any)

The table is in the American "Arts & Crafts" style, particularly from the Greene & Greene designs in California in the early 20th century.

sam


----------



## engineer one (14 Mar 2006)

sam really nice piece, i like some of the American Woodworker designs too.

as for paranoia. was it not richard nixon who said i am not paranoid, but just in case i'll tape them first????? :lol: :lol: :lol: 

thing is though if you weren't paranoid how would you know if they were following you or not????? :? :? :? :? 

like the contrasts.

paul :wink:


----------



## Nick W (14 Mar 2006)

And, of course, even if you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you 8-[


----------

