# A question



## Doug B (3 Jun 2010)

Could i ask, in the light of Tom`s (wizer`s) new forum, if UKW is to get new Moderators?
Surely Philly & Chris moding both sites could lead to a clash of interests?



Doug


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## studders (3 Jun 2010)

Doug B":4alf1caq said:


> Could i ask, in the light of Tom`s (wizer`s) new forum, if UKW is to get new Moderators?
> Surely Philly & Chris moding both sites could lead to a clash of interests?
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, I thought that too. Even if they were able to be completely impartial in modding decisions, which I'm sure they would be, irrespective of forum, it does leave some gates wide open for potential 'perceived' problems.


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## rileytoolworks (3 Jun 2010)

What have I missed now?
New forum?
What's going on?


Adam.


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## Doug B (3 Jun 2010)

RILEY":3dw4hs14 said:


> What have I missed now?
> New forum?
> What's going on?
> 
> ...



It does seem to be the invited few at the moment , Adam

It`s at www.thewoodhaven.co.uk




Doug


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## big soft moose (3 Jun 2010)

I dont really see why there should be a clash of interests, the sites arent in competition , and people are free to join both or either so i'm not sure what potential problems you forsee - Noel is still a mod here but not there, and their is always the elusive charley, which should stop any conflict occuring.

But i'm sure the mod team would thank you WWUK boys for your concern, it must make a nice change of pace for you from talking about twittery


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## big soft moose (3 Jun 2010)

Doug B":2026aa80 said:


> RILEY":2026aa80 said:
> 
> 
> > What have I missed now?
> ...



Its open to all, and not really a secret or for the "invited few" , its just that tom doesnt want to set out to deliberately poach members from ukws , plus he wanted to keep the wood haven fairly low key until it was fully set up and he'd had a chance to iron out all the gremlins in the code


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## wizer (3 Jun 2010)

Doug, could you explain further what you mean by 'clashing of interests'?

Neither forum is a profit run business and neither forum pays it's 'staff', so I don't uinderstand which interests would clash?


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## wizer (3 Jun 2010)

Doug B":2dg25a3h said:


> RILEY":2dg25a3h said:
> 
> 
> > What have I missed now?
> ...



Was you invited then?

If I had started spamming members I'd have been critisised. This new forum is it's own entity. It's not a 'break-away' forum and at The Wood Haven, I absolutely won't have any water taking or insults thrown around about any other forum.


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

Surely some 'behind closed doors' discussion must have taken place and certain individuals privately informed about the new Forum prior to or during its creation? 
Either that or there are more psychic Woodworkers on here than one would expect on the average Forum. 
The first public mention of its existence was on the other side and that was only a couple of days ago; yet postings would suggest others knew prior to that?
If the intention was to avoid 'poaching' UKWS members then how is it that the current membership appears to consist, almost exclusively, of current UKWS members and Moderators? How, exactly, does the new forum expect to obtain members if not via UKWS? 
If the new forum is not in competition with UKWS then what is the purpose of its creation? Are the admin of the new site unhappy about the way things are done on UKWS? Do they think they can do better?
As for conflict of interest, if there is none then presumably Charley is fully aware of the current situation re the new site and the UKWS Mods involvement in it. Is that the case?


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## big soft moose (4 Jun 2010)

studders":3jsc5uxz said:


> Surely some 'behind closed doors' discussion must have taken place and certain individuals privately informed about the new Forum prior to or during its creation?
> Either that or there are more psychic Woodworkers on here than one would expect on the average Forum.
> The first public mention of its existence was on the other side and that was only a couple of days ago; yet postings would suggest others knew prior to that?
> If the intention was to avoid 'poaching' UKWS members then how is it that the current membership appears to consist, almost exclusively, of current UKWS members and Moderators? How, exactly, does the new forum expect to obtain members if not via UKWS?
> ...



HOW does/did WWUK get members (apart from the initial nucleus who obviously left from here to start it)

as to charleys knowledge - why is it any of your buisness ?


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## Doug B (4 Jun 2010)

Tom.


You quite obviously got in touch with some members of UKW, as their posts reflect this, these are the invited few i refer to.

No i was not invited, the only reason i know is someone who had never posted before or since, appeared on the forum chat to inform us of your forum. 

As for clashes of interest, Philly, Chris & Gill (?) are, although voluntarily, doing exactly the same job on 2 different forums, for 2 different owners. 

I wish you well with your venture, but agree with Studders on the points he has raised.


Doug.


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## matt (4 Jun 2010)

OMG - does anyone really care? :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2010)

Blimey, not another forum :shock: :shock: Life's too short........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (4 Jun 2010)

I still fail to see how there can be a conflict of interest, but it s a matter for discussion between those mods and Charley. Nothing to do with me. I did not force them to be mods.

I invited a few of my friends to help me test the forums settings and give me a general opinion on what they thought of the site. Someone in that small group let the cat out of the bag and news spread. I did not tell anyone other than 4-5 friends. UKW was not used to poach or convince members to join. In fact I would not be offended if members of UKW did not join The Wood Haven. It's a free world, no one is forcing people to join and join in.

The purpose TWH was launched was indeed because I disagree with how this place is run. That doesn't make us enemies, I strongly object to the swipes and jibes UKW gets from WWUK and I don't want any of that business on my forum.

I hope in the future to offer more value to my members in the form of extra forum features as well as more organised events. Of course none of this will happen until the forum finds it's feet and the comedians get bored of taking the mickey.

I'll say it again, if you object to yet another woodworking forum, don't join. I will never promote my forum here.


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## Noel (4 Jun 2010)

Tom, catch a grip will you? You're promoting the place now, you're broadcasting it's existence. Personally I have no problem with that but please, get real.

tr.v., -mot·ed, -mot·ing, -motes.
To raise to a more important or responsible job or rank.
To advance (a student) to the next higher grade.
To contribute to the progress or growth of; further. See synonyms at advance.
To urge the adoption of; advocate: promote a constitutional amendment.
To attempt to sell or popularize by advertising or publicity: commercials promoting a new product.
To help establish or organize (a new enterprise), as by securing financial backing: promote a Broadway show.

No 3 might just be apt.
Wish you all the best with it.


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## MIGNAL (4 Jun 2010)

I don't really see the problem. Many other forums are mentioned on here: Woodnet. Ubeaut and even 'the other side'.


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## Gary (4 Jun 2010)

wizer":35ht4ndz said:


> I will never promote my forum here.



Tom, you won't have to, others are doing this for you without them even realising it.

I hope the new forum stays as this forum once was and doesn't end up with in fighting and fall outs. 

Best of luck.


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## wizer (4 Jun 2010)

Noel, I did not ask Doug to post about this here. Am I not supposed to reply? If you object, delete this thread.


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## wizer (4 Jun 2010)

Thanks for the support guys. It seems I'm not allowed to comment, so I won't any further.


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## Gary (4 Jun 2010)

wizer":17bcq0zh said:


> Thanks for the support guys. It seems I'm not allowed to comment, so I won't any further.



You're allowed as much free speech here as any other member.

Another classic example of longstanding members being driven away from this forum.

Where are people going to go for advice when there's a forum full of newbies?


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## Noel (4 Jun 2010)

Tom, don't take the hump so easy. Read my post again, I have no problem with you talking about your forum and posting here, I've never had. But posting about the place does inform others about it, does it not? Which in itself is not a problem, choice is good and I'm of course furthering that by posting. I merely pointed out the by-product of discussing it, no big deal.
And as I said, I wish you all the best with it.


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## matt (4 Jun 2010)

I foresee some real issues with another forum, largely around badge protocol:

When socialising members will be wondering which badge to wear?
If wearing both, which goes in the dominant position?
Will one forum try to trump the other, perhaps by introducing a forum tunic?

I'm beginning to think there should be a multi-forum discussion area to hammer out some of the detail of badge protocol :shock:

If anyone wants to join my forum: www.ukindependantwoodworkingforum.co.uk

:lol:


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2010)

We'll probably end up with another bloody coalition....... :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

big soft moose":3loreqdc said:


> as to charleys knowledge - why is it any of your buisness ?



I would have thought that to be quite obvious, even to you, given the subject of the original question, which, I note , yet again, has been turned into something it was not.


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

big soft moose":2tniu8rr said:


> HOW does/did WWUK get members (apart from the initial nucleus who obviously left from here to start it)



I've no idea and as far as the original point goes it's irrelevant. WWUK does not have Moderators as Members on both Forums.


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

Gary":jqokt705 said:


> Another classic example of longstanding members being driven away from this forum.



So who is doing that, and how?


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

wizer":3fzplchu said:


> The purpose TWH was launched was indeed because I disagree with how this place is run.



Tom, Thank you for a straight forward and honest answer. It comes as no great surprise as you have voiced dissatisfaction on many occasions, as have others, myself included. 



wizer":3fzplchu said:


> I'll say it again, if you object to yet another woodworking forum.



As far as I can see no one has done so. That is another Red Herring being thrown around to suit a few who would rather ' The minority trouble makers' as they put it, stayed silent.
At the moment I can't see how the new Forum _can be_ that much different to what is already available. But I wish you all the best in proving me wrong. And that is not sarcasm BTW.


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## Doug B (4 Jun 2010)

wizer":165x0gyb said:


> I still fail to see how there can be a conflict of interest




Tom.

An individual cannot be expected to be completely impartial when making decisions that concern 2 parties, you don`t get a solicitor representing both accused & accuser.

I don`t expect you to agree with me as you have already made your decision.

Personally i think there is room for another woodworking forum, but as i have been critical of the mod team as a whole on UKW i think you have missed a trick by going to all the trouble of setting up your site & using the mods from here, it will, as has already been said be seen as UKW mark 2.

What forums need is open moding, if things are questioned, posts deleted, members want to know why. Staying silent & not answering questions in the open forum where they were asked, just leads to a, them & us situation. I don`t post much on here as this is the way i feel about UKW.

I appreciate a lot of folks don`t like WWUK, but at least Jason is open to questions about his decisions, whether you like his answers or not, is another matter, but at least things are done in the open, after all we are adults & should be able to accept others views.

As i have already said i wish you well with your site, i don`t intend posting , but will follow it with interest, if only because you have had the good sense to have a "for sale" section.


Doug.


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2010)

Doug B":1pwzxp76 said:


> Personally i think there is room for another woodworking forum



Well, I reckon they are like TV soaps and reality shows - far too many already........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Doug B (4 Jun 2010)

Paul Chapman":2jx5wwd6 said:


> Doug B":2jx5wwd6 said:
> 
> 
> > Personally i think there is room for another woodworking forum
> ...




Sorry Paul, should have said a top quality one. :lol: :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (4 Jun 2010)

Doug B":dgjif45x said:


> Paul Chapman":dgjif45x said:
> 
> 
> > Doug B":dgjif45x said:
> ...



That's better :wink: :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## OPJ (4 Jun 2010)

studders":y0hvhcat said:


> WWUK does not have Moderators as Members on both Forums.



True. But, that's only because JFC gets banned each time he tries to sneak back in, here!! :wink:


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## promhandicam (4 Jun 2010)

big soft moose":l1iltrb1 said:


> But i'm sure the mod team would thank you WWUK boys for your concern, it must make a nice change of pace for you from talking about twittery



Pete, if you do a search of the word twittery on both UKW and WWUK, one has 2 matches and the other 31. I'll leave you to figure out which is which. :roll:


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## promhandicam (4 Jun 2010)

wizer":jn6rtyy0 said:


> . . . I strongly object to the swipes and jibes UKW gets from WWUK and I don't want any of that business on my forum. . . .



Tom, as I you must be aware, there have been members on both UKW and WWUK that have been involved in 'swipes and jibes' as you put it. To suggest that it is one sided is rather disingenuous. It should also be noted that there a number of people, myself included who are (happily) members on both WWUK and UKW and some who have also joined TWH.

Steve


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## promhandicam (4 Jun 2010)

OPJ":mp3jcl9l said:


> studders":mp3jcl9l said:
> 
> 
> > WWUK does not have Moderators as Members on both Forums.
> ...



I can't help wondering if it isn't exactly this sort of action that has prompted Tom to set up his own forum.


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## big soft moose (4 Jun 2010)

yeah but thats because the wwuk search doesnt include the chat box (because its technically on another url)

on ukws the 31 refference to twittery are nearly , i was tired as twittery, the wood was hard as twittery , etc

only on wwuk do you routinely find members cracking jokes about bumming each other, dogging, taking aprentices roughly from behind etc

And if thats what you guys want to do of an evening then thats fine by me, i was just saying that being concerned for charleys mental well being will make a nice change of pace from working out the best doggin sites in feltham.


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## big soft moose (4 Jun 2010)

promhandicam":qu85yvcm said:


> wizer":qu85yvcm said:
> 
> 
> > . . . I strongly object to the swipes and jibes UKW gets from WWUK and I don't want any of that business on my forum. . . .
> ...



with the exception of myself i cant think of anyone else from ukws who has been involved in swipe and jibes over on wwuk- but to be fair to tom he has clearly stated that he wont tolerate TWH members slagging either of the other forums on his boards , which is fine as an involved adminsitrator he has the right to make that the rules if he wants.


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## studders (4 Jun 2010)

big soft moose":1sqt2v2o said:


> only on wwuk do you routinely find members cracking jokes about bumming each other, dogging, taking aprentices roughly from behind etc



So that's why you spend so much time over there; to pick up tips and possible locations.

Hmmmm.... Interesting.


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## big soft moose (4 Jun 2010)

studders":36mjqqcd said:


> big soft moose":36mjqqcd said:
> 
> 
> > only on wwuk do you routinely find members cracking jokes about bumming each other, dogging, taking aprentices roughly from behind etc
> ...



i didnt say it was a bad thing :lol: 

actually now that the fight is over , i quite like wwuk - and its clear that the guys are warming to me... i mean jase still tells me to F*ck off about five times a night, but I sense he'd miss the interaction if i stayed away :lol:


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## Doctor (4 Jun 2010)

Are you mental Moose?
I think I'm the friendliest one to you and I find you irritating to say the least
:shock:


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## Sportique (4 Jun 2010)

Nah - I think you are all WRONG. :lol: :wink: 

Tom has done this just to reset his post count (last time I looked it was only 170 on TWH :shock: )

Dave


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## Al Bundy (4 Jun 2010)

8)


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## Benchwayze (5 Jun 2010)

A Forum isn't a fancy website.
A Forum isn't about the number and quality of its posts.
A Forum isn't about being better, or worse than any other forum.
*A forum, is its members.* 

In our case it's a group of like-minded people who wish to discuss and debate on the subject of woodwork in all its forms. 

So long as there are no smear campaigns, no downright aggressive and insulting posts, then let the members get on with it, in whichever forum or fora they choose to register with. 

As for promotion... 
The best mousetrap in the world will catch fewer mice, if the mice don't know about it. 

That's my few pennn'orth.

Fin!

John


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## Noel (5 Jun 2010)

+1


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## matt (5 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":12e9m2bv said:


> A Forum isn't a fancy website.
> A Forum isn't about the number and quality of its posts.
> A Forum isn't about being better, or worse than any other forum.
> *A forum, is its members.*



Now I never had you down as a rapper...  

N'theless - I agree...

Second verse:
*Although volume attracts the variety 
And familiarity breeds contempt
So dis her forum, and de udder ones
Always be unkempt...*


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## big soft moose (5 Jun 2010)

Doctor":3o65ve6k said:


> Are you mental Moose?
> I think I'm the friendliest one to you and I find you irritating to say the least
> :shock:



Yeah but i'll grow on y'all - like fungus


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## Benchwayze (5 Jun 2010)

Hidden Talents? :lol: 

So well hidden, I didn't realise the connection myself. 
I'll use bullets next time. :lol: :lol: 

Cheers.
John


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## Al Bundy (5 Jun 2010)

Great to see Toms able to work again after his lengthy convalessence  Looks like his trouble are finally over =D>


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## Benchwayze (5 Jun 2010)

matt":2rj4s4rg said:


> Benchwayze":2rj4s4rg said:
> 
> 
> > A Forum isn't a fancy website.
> ...



Hidden Talents Matt; so well hidden I didn't know I had them! :lol: 

John


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## woodbloke (5 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":2vk1stxt said:


> matt":2vk1stxt said:
> 
> 
> > Benchwayze":2vk1stxt said:
> ...



He was a poet and didn't know it :lol: - Rob


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