# New workshop build



## neilyweely (5 Nov 2008)

OK, I am beginning a workshop build at the bottom of the garden, and need some help. I have a bricklayer lined up, and between him and I we can get the whole job done, I just need a few pointers along the way.

The plot!!






The lean-to!





Existing prefab WS





View from the house






So, to start with, here are some pictures of the space we will be filling!!
To the left in the pics is the pre-fab that is my current WS, and the lean-to on the side which will be swallowed up by the new workshop. I want it about 3.5m wide, and maybe 8m long. This can fit. I think I will keep some small space down the side of the WS to allow stuff to be crammed in and to stand it all away from the fence and the neighbours garden. The neighbours have been consulted and they approve. I am lucky, he is a gent next door (builds planes in his garage!!)(Aero-planes!!!).

So, what do you think? We think a mono-pitch roof, brick and block walls (cavity) and UPVC windows. Door at on end, facing the house. 

Thanks for looking, and ALL comments welcome.

Neil


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## OLD (5 Nov 2008)

Single brick or block with piers would be a more economical than cavity a concrete floor layed on dpc is good for machinery and can have chip board over for a smooth easy clean floor .The prefab end gable could be encorporated saveing build costs. Insulation is very desirable. Very easy with wood walls, but between battens and sheeted over is ok for brick etc. the roof also needs insulating.Water off the roof sould discharge towards you its easyer to maintain. Power is required and duct is needed in the slab.Double doors are useful in a work shop . Consider security m/cs and tools are expensive.
I am sure others will mention planning and part p electrical i am assuming you have made your decisions on these aspects


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## neilyweely (5 Nov 2008)

hello old

I think i will probly get away with paying for just the materials, as the bricky is a friend of mine, and he has told me I can pay him in kind, in time. This is good, he kinda owes me one anyway.

I want the WS to look good, it will be there for some time, and if we sell up in five years I want to be able to describe it as a summer house or whatever. Do you not think cavity wall is the way to go? If there is a cheaper, effective and attractive way then I am all ears. I did consider block work covered with batons and a timber outer. This would be an option, as long as it would last well. I do think the cavity wall, brick and block option is probly the best way to go. I'd sooner pay once than continue to pay for what could have been done properly the first time. I am also considering a duo pitch roof (which I can fit so would not be a problem) so the whole thing is up in the air ATM. The footings can go in, I don't have any problems there as we are decided on a concrete floor with a DPM.

So, maybe brick and block? I could get my best mate (who is corgi plumber) to put water down there and it could be marketed as a granny annexe in the future. So many possibilities!!!

Thanks anyway OLD. Let me know what you think.

Cheers

Neil


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## OLD (5 Nov 2008)

If you are going to have water, main drainage and construct as habitable space just getting the ok from the guy nexst door will not be sufficient.Time to get those ducks in a row, finalise design draw plans and cost out.


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## wizer (5 Nov 2008)

Cavity walls seem a little OTT to me. In fact I don't think you should build it out of brick at all. Timber frame will be much easier, cheaper and easy on the regs. Plus with a timber frame you can have slimmer walls with the same insulation value as cavity brick.


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## PAC1 (5 Nov 2008)

I went for cavity walls and do not regret it. If you are not paying the brickie and only have to pay for the materials I would go for cavity walls and put insulation in the cavity. Watch the width. If it is 3.5m internal OK but 3.5m external less 600mm in wall construction it is too narrow. A pitched roof creates loads of storage space as long as the construction can take the load. Whilst a concrete floor is good a wooden floor is better on your legs and the tools. I designed my floor such that my dust extrction pipework runs between the floor joists. 

just some thoughts


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## MikeG. (6 Nov 2008)

Hi Neil,

didn't you just insulate a workshop? Which was that?

Are you planning the long dimension to be running along the fence, and for the building to be sticking out into your garden by 3.5m?

If you are at the complete beginning stage, then a sketch design or 2 is the way forward. First things first..............is that area going to be big enough? Why not make it 4 or 4.5 metres wide? When you do your sketch, don't forget to give walls a thickness!!!! You would be amazed how many times I see client's sketches with the wall represented by a single line. Your walls are going to be between 150 and 300 thick, and they eat up floor area! If you are planning a footprint 3.5 metres wide, cavity walls will take up 600mm of that, leaving you an internal floor dimension of 2.9m........you lost about 17% of your slab width just like that!!!)

Having established the size of your rectangle, next consider the door position..........I would recommend a double door for a workshop (machines in, projects out). I would also recommend that you never put a door in a corner. Keep it at least a decent shelf-width away (say 300 or 350) from a corner, otherwise you create a "dead" section of wall behind the door.

Next, your bench position. I personally would try and have your vice in the exact middle of the run of your longest wall...........this will give you plenty of flexibility with longer pieces of wood. The next question is whether your window will be behind your bench.............great light, but takes all your storage area away. If you have a cross-cut saw RAS or chop saw of some sort, I would also allow for this to be in the middle of one of the long walls). As your planer thicknesser will also need to be in the middle of a long run, your design decisions are starting to occur already!!!

You are pretty much restricted to having your window in the long wall facing the garden, I reckon.

OK, that sets out the basics of your workshop................next, the big decisions!! 

I would personally not even consider a masonry cavity wall construction. I would build a 4x2 studwork construction on a concrete base with a low brick plinth. A cavity wall will be at leat 250mm thick.........standard house walls are now 300 thick.......that is an enormous amount of your floorspace gone, and only 50mm of insulation. A lined stud wall not only has 100mm of insulation, it also would only be about 160mm thick, saving a lot of floorspace. If you build a metre or more from your boundary you can clad the outside with feather-edge boards.........but I rendered mine, which would allow you to build closer to your boundary (don't forget that roof and gutters should not overhang your boundary).

If you are planning on staying at this house I would certainly advocate a pitched roof. There is the bonus of storage space, which will be really handy, but the main thing is that you really want a proper roof to keep water out of your building. A pitched roof will enable you to use some of the better roofing materials available, and they aren't a fortune either. Your call, but felt on ply is always just waiting to fail!

Neil, if you want me to sketch something for you, let me know. They won't be proper working drawings, but plenty enough for you to build the building yourself. PM me. Have a go at a sketch yourself, though.

Cheers

Mike


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## wizer (6 Nov 2008)

Mike Garnham":8idtpb1u said:


> Hi Neil,
> 
> didn't you just insulate a workshop? Which was that?



I was confused by this. Have you moved Neil? Or are we thinking about someone else?


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## neil-the-sticker-guy (7 Nov 2008)

hi neil.

im doing a similar sort of build at the moment. you can see the thread further down the page.

i personally wouldnt go for a cavity wall. ive gone for a single skin blockwork wall with piers. as people have said already, you will lose alot of space having the cavity and extra block. plus its probably going to cost nearly double to build that extra skin and also the extra time it will take to erect.

i was dubious about having a single skin, as i thought it would be very unstable. but now the walls are up, they are extremely solid.

looks like a really good area to work with that you have. alot flatter than what i started with. cost me a fortune to get out the ground with mine!!

hope all goes well and keep us posted.

just out of intrest, would you be intrested in a personalised neil number plate i have for sale? had to get that one in.


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## jhwbigley (7 Nov 2008)

300mm thick walls? iv just finished adding 6 rooms onto my parents house and we had 275mm thick walls, 100mm brick, 75mm drytherm and 100 thermalite block. why so agaist cavity walls for a workshop? mines got cavity walls, and plastered, with skirting and coving , well iv put up with a tin sheds long enought!.


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## MikeG. (7 Nov 2008)

JHWB,

I'm not "so against cavity walls for a workshop", it is just that I think that there are better alternatives.

Even at 275mm thick, that is 550 lost off the slab width in total working space. That is some 330mm more than would be lost with a timber frame, and given our constricted sites in this country, generally, 13 inches is more than most people would be prepared to give up, I reckon.

There is also another point. Lightwieght buildings are more suited to intermittent heating than more heavyweight ones. Your masonry shed will take longer to heat up, and longer to cool, than a timber frame shed of the same design. Popping into the shed for an hour here and an hour there, you would certainly use less power heating the timber framed one. Completely different matter if you worked in it full time, of course.

Finally, and only an aside........as we are woodworkers, the chances are that a timber framed shed is within the general capacities of most on here, but I suggest that masonry construction wouldn't be within the capability of quite so many.

Mike


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## jhwbigley (7 Nov 2008)

mike, 
i do see what you mean about heating a masonry building, they do take some heating, we have ending up using night stores to get some walmth.
iv also just built a timber car port, with a tiled roof which come to think of it would make a good workshop. the things that have put my off timber building are roof covering, often felt, which is pants, and also the cost of timber, witch can be silly, but saying that brick work is not cheap. 

i think if u are building big, then build with brick, if small, timber is the way. 

ill put some pictures up of the carport and workshop when i remeber how!


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## MikeG. (7 Nov 2008)

jhwbigley":17w1r6mh said:


> mike,
> i think if u are building big, then build with brick



There are better ways!

It is very difficult to do a zero- or near-zero -energy building with a brick outer skin.........simply, again, because of wall thicknesses (before anyone quotes the Vales house in Nottingham.....I did say, difficult not impossible!!)

Mike


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## CWatters (8 Nov 2008)

Looks like a it will be a good project. Sorry to throw a spanner in but if it's within 1 meter of the boundary and bigger than 15sqm you may need Building Control Approval. Otherwise approval is only required if over 30sqm.


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## neilyweely (9 Nov 2008)

Sorry Folks - have been working away and didn't have chance to check in.

OK, so if you look at the pictures you can see the prefab building, this is the shop I have just insulated. TBH I threw it up PDQ, it had to serve a purpose on the double!! But it is all insulated, and lined with some cheap flooring (chipboard) I got for a pittance. Shelves everywhere, and tools scattered all over the place. If you saw it you would not believe I only just set it all up!

Of course it did not take too long to realise it was all too small, which is why I am now moving this other project forwards. I had always intended to build a WS here, but not before next year.

So, cavity wall or not - that is the question. Mike G has always done me right before, so I guess I will do as he has done. If it's good enough for you, Mike, it will be heaven for me!!! Plus I like the idea of saving some money right now! When I got back the house was a wreck (leaks, burst pipes and blocked pipes) and I had a letter from another debtor letting me down (again). So, it looks as if the plan will need thinning down some.

I need as much space as possible. And it needs to be secure and warm. So how about blocks on the inside and cladding on the out? With insulation between? A pitch roof seems a must, which is ok cos I can do this. And maybe a wooden floor, although I did wonder about damp being a problem. So, you can see the location of the planned WS, with neighbours to the right as you look down the garden, and open space round the other sides. Should I anticipate any planning problems? What are my limits, in a nutshell? As I understand it I am ok with 3.5m width and taking up the total length at the bottom of the garden (width of the garden, length of the shop) You can see where it is planned from the pics, I think. 
I have dug down 2ft for the foundations, do I need to go down this deep all over the place? Or just the perimeter?

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice - keep it coming, God knows I need it!!

Cheers then

Neil


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## MikeG. (10 Nov 2008)

Neil,
I'll do this by PM, possibly this evening.
Mike


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## MikeG. (10 Nov 2008)

Neil,
could you send me your email address....I can then email a sketch or two.

Mike


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