# Jacob



## Modernist (5 Apr 2012)

Just to let you guys know that you will have to manage without Jacob's guiding hand for a while as he is in hospital following a fall in the snow. He may be going under the knife today to repair a ruptured tendon so I hope they have prepared the rounded bevel scalpel for duty.

I sure you will join me in wishing him all the best for a speedy recovery and may I suggest we all sell any tools with brass knobs on and send the funds to [email protected] who will ensure that they are spent wisely.


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## Gerard Scanlan (5 Apr 2012)

Hope Jacob makes a speedy recovery and I just hope that surgeon is using Sheffield steel (fortunately most scapels are still made in Sheffield and there is one with a rounded tip).


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## Racers (5 Apr 2012)

Hi,

I hope he heals quickly, and dosn't give the doctors to much trouble.

Pete


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## marcros (5 Apr 2012)

i trust that the surgeon will not mention that he bought a set of tools, and instead only picked up the ones that he needed on ebay.

After all, its not about the tools!

Joking aside, I hope he has a speedy recovery.


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## AndyT (5 Apr 2012)

I nearly didn't look at this thread, thinking 'oh no, not another thread misguidedly complaining about Jacob's sharp style' - and I am very glad to see it's not. 
I wish him a speedy and painless recovery, and rather hope he has bedside computer access, so he can spend his convalescence keeping us all on the straight and narrow! The forum would be a duller place without him.


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## Sportique (5 Apr 2012)

+1 for Andy ...

Dave


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## Sawyer (5 Apr 2012)

This forum is a lively, interesting and very informative place. Wish Jacob a speedy recovery and that he's back soon to help keep things that way.


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## Alf (5 Apr 2012)

My thoughts are with... the nursing staff. :lol:

(Yeah, and best wishes to Jacob too.  )


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## Cheshirechappie (5 Apr 2012)

So Jacob's in bed, with a nurse, eh?

Sorry to hear about anybody suffering accidents of such nature, so I wish Jacob an easy journey on the road to recovery.

(Must admit that I can't really understand the antipathy towards Jacob from some quarters. OK, he has strong opinions and isn't afraid to express them, but I've never seen him be outright rude to anybody. He's clearly forgotten more about joinery than I'll ever know, so he's got a lot to contribute. It would be a very boring and limited world if averybody thought the same way, and divergent opinions were not allowed.)


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## Paul Chapman (5 Apr 2012)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery, Jacob.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## maltrout512 (5 Apr 2012)

All the best. Hope the surgeon doesn't ask him any sharpening questions.


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## James C (5 Apr 2012)

Hope he is better soon and back to his regular contributions.


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## beech1948 (5 Apr 2012)

Sad to hear that Jacob had a fall. Hope he makes a complete recovery without too much pain. God help the nurses.

Like many many others I am also amazed at the antipathy towards Jacob. Forthright..Yes. Strong minded...Yes. Rude ( unlike some ) ....No. Skilled...undoubtedly. Generous to share his knowledge..Yes.

My Grand dad who was a cabinet maker in Chester and a great craftsman used to say that a good craftsman had to find like minded gentleman to be his customer. The craftsman understood the care and diligence needed to make things, the customer needed similar care and comprehension to appreciate what was being made. I always recall that when I see Jacobs posts.

Al


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## deserter (5 Apr 2012)

If your reading this get well soon. Falls in the snow/ice can be nasty I took out 2 vertebrae a couple of years ago on the ice, so I can sympathise with you.


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## Jensmith (5 Apr 2012)

Hope Jacob is on the mend soon. I know someone who fell at the back end of last year and they only just made it home after breaking both knees. Yep, falls in the snow and ice can be nasty and I bet a ruptured tendon isn't fun to deal with either.


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## Digit (5 Apr 2012)

Long term it can be crippling Jen, my wife suffered a similar injury over 20 yrs ago and it still gives her trouble.

Roy.


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## MickCheese (5 Apr 2012)

Get well soon.

I will miss you.

Mick


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## Lons (5 Apr 2012)

Best wishes for a speedy recovery Jacob.

Remember that medical staff have many subtle ways of administering pain and suffering on those who give them a hard time, (which of course you won't). :wink: 
With a family riddled with doctors and nurses, I know this to be true. :roll: 

get well soon

Bob


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## Dibs-h (5 Apr 2012)

Wishing Jacob a speedy recovery!

Dibs


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## SammyQ (5 Apr 2012)

Jacob? I can't wait to hear how you advised them to start with a fleam.......or maybe a Tiemann scarificator.......or perhaps what some here would have loved to have used recently: a trepanning scalpel?


:-" 

Sam


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## Benchwayze (5 Apr 2012)

Hope you get well soon Jacob.


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## llangatwgnedd (6 Apr 2012)

Speedy recovery Jacob.


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## SketchUp Guru (6 Apr 2012)

Speedy recovery..


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## devonwoody (6 Apr 2012)

Get well soon Jacob.

I will check to see if Digit as got a cast iron alibi, :wink:


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## misterfish (6 Apr 2012)

All the best for a quick recovery

Misterfish


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## WoodMangler (6 Apr 2012)

I haven't been here long and don't say much - but I do read this forum every day, and I find Jacob great value. I hope he recovers from this injury quickly and completely.


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## devonwoody (6 Apr 2012)

He'll need to flex his muscles when he leaves hospital I can tell you.

(it happened to me when I was around 26 years of age, the tendon became detached from my kneecap, it is the rehab that must be conquered.)


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

> I will check to see if Digit as got a cast iron alibi,



You don't think all that snow was accidental do you Woody? Yep, I'm afraid he is in for a long period of difficulty with that injury.

Roy.


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## tomatwark (6 Apr 2012)

Get well soon Jacob

You will no doubt be on here a lot more during your recovery keeping us right (hammer) 

Tom


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## Karl (6 Apr 2012)

Hang on, wtf has happened to Jake's (and others) post about "couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow"?


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## Blister (6 Apr 2012)

Karl":3q0gn2k1 said:


> Hang on, wtf has happened to Jake's (and others) post about "couldn't have happened to a nicer fellow"?



Moderated ? Maybe ?

or removed by the poster ?


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## devonwoody (6 Apr 2012)

I've heard via the grapevine that a certain gentleman was castrated by a surgeon who was advised of other problems concerning his patient. :wink:


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## RogerBoyle (6 Apr 2012)

They have been moderated
As one of my posts has been removed
=D> =D> 

Roger


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## Richard T (6 Apr 2012)

Get well soon Mr. Butler .... it's starting to get worryingly sane around here .. :shock:


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## Digit (6 Apr 2012)

Frankly I worry how he's going to cope as a self employed man. In my experience the healing process can be quite prolonged.

Roy.


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## Blister (7 Apr 2012)

Jacob is back :shock: 

And its a sharpening topic 

second post down 

wooden-spokeshave-how-to-sharpen-hone-t60063.html

:lol: :lol:


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## DIY Stew (7 Apr 2012)

Don't know what all the fuss is, I have never had a problem with Jacob. (hammer) 

Best wishes and get well soon mate.

Stew


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## AndyT (7 Apr 2012)

Blister":4ow21938 said:


> Jacob is back :shock:
> 
> And its a sharpening topic
> 
> ...



I don't understand - that's a discussion between Baldpate and Alf - what do you mean?


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## marcros (7 Apr 2012)

there was a jacob reply on it. seems to have disappeared though


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## xy mosian (7 Apr 2012)

Alll the best Jacob, Old Man. I really hope that your business does not suffer from any prolonged absence.

xy


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## Harbo (7 Apr 2012)

Ghost writer?


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## Alf (7 Apr 2012)

You're not going mad; there _was_ a post by Jacob - it disappeared whilst I was composing mine.


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## Digit (7 Apr 2012)

Invisible ink?

Roy.


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## Ring (7 Apr 2012)

Get well soon Jacob =P~


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## Steve Maskery (7 Apr 2012)

Well if there was a post, and it's been removed, obviously the incident hasn't affect his brain too much. Let's hope his body is as resilient!
GWS
S


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## CHJ (7 Apr 2012)

To aviod unecessary speculation I can confirm that the post was removed by Jacob himself.


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## Jacob (7 Apr 2012)

I deleted it. I suddenly got even more p|ssed off than usual by the malignant tone and asked myself why I am bothering associating with these people.


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## MickCheese (7 Apr 2012)

Jacob":36bcztmt said:


> I deleted it. I suddenly got even more p|ssed off than usual by the malignant tone and asked myself why I am bothering associating with these people.



Welcome back. How are you?

Mick


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## SammyQ (8 Apr 2012)

Jacob? As one of "these people" I think I speak for many when I say that the "malignant tone " originated as a responce to your over-application of the wooden spoon - you stir things up so vehemently.

I wish you a full recovery AND I admire your work, but I reserve the right to get highly irritated by (what I see as) your aggressive counter-argumentative 
approach to some topics. You are fully entitiled to hold opposing views, but there might be a more diplomatic way to express them?

Sam, who at the 'wrong' side of a half-century, is well aware of the increasing fragility of hman anatomy.


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## Lons (8 Apr 2012)

SammyQ":3ezcbp1c said:


> Jacob? As one of "these people" I think I speak for many when I say that the "malignant tone " originated as a responce to your over-application of the wooden spoon - you stir things up so vehemently.
> 
> I wish you a full recovery AND I admire your work, but I reserve the right to get highly irritated by (what I see as) your aggressive counter-argumentative
> approach to some topics. You are fully entitiled to hold opposing views, but there might be a more diplomatic way to express them?
> ...



=D> =D> 

And I think Jacob that you'll find "these people" are also genuine in their best wishes for your recovery as a fellow woodworker and human being, which is a very seperate issue to any confict with your opinions.

cheers

Bob


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## RogerS (8 Apr 2012)

SammyQ":2f99npfj said:


> Jacob? As one of "these people" I think I speak for many when I say that the "malignant tone " originated as a responce to your over-application of the wooden spoon - you stir things up so vehemently.
> 
> I wish you a full recovery AND I admire your work, but I reserve the right to get highly irritated by (what I see as) your aggressive counter-argumentative
> approach to some topics. You are fully entitiled to hold opposing views, but there might be a more diplomatic way to express them?
> ...



=D> ccasion5: Well said, that man. Although not sure about ''admiring the work' :wink:


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## Webby (8 Apr 2012)

RogerS":25v47gxb said:


> SammyQ":25v47gxb said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob? As one of "these people" I think I speak for many when I say that the "malignant tone " originated as a responce to your over-application of the wooden spoon - you stir things up so vehemently.
> ...


Get well soon  
looks like you are on the road to recovery reading your post lol :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## woodbloke (8 Apr 2012)

RogerS":14hz7ph3 said:


> SammyQ":14hz7ph3 said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob? As one of "these people" I think I speak for many when I say that the "malignant tone " originated as a responce to your over-application of the wooden spoon - you stir things up so vehemently.
> ...


Time for me to comment. Agreed, nicely put Sam and Rog - Rob


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## RogerS (8 Apr 2012)

I forgot to add.... not too sure about some of Jacob's advice either. A lot of it is wrong, often contradictory and frequently misleading and so to put Jacob up on a pedestal as the font of all knowledge is plain wrong. 

It's OK for those of us who know better but for anyone new to woodworking and not knowing about all the 'baggage' then they could get easily misled.


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## woodbloke (8 Apr 2012)

RogerS":26zx7qmd said:


> I forgot to add.... not too sure about some of Jacob's advice either. A lot of it is wrong, often contradictory and frequently misleading and so to put Jacob up on a pedestal as the font of all knowledge is plain wrong.
> 
> It's OK for those of us who know better but for anyone new to woodworking and not knowing about all the 'baggage' then they could get easily misled.


Again, nicely put Rog and I couldn't agree more - Rob


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## Doug B (8 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":qsa80rde said:


> RogerS":qsa80rde said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot to add.... not too sure about some of Jacob's advice either. A lot of it is wrong, often contradictory and frequently misleading and so to put Jacob up on a pedestal as the font of all knowledge is plain wrong.
> ...


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":1w2c60c8 said:


> RogerS":1w2c60c8 said:
> 
> 
> > I forgot to add.... not too sure about some of Jacob's advice either. A lot of it is wrong, often contradictory and frequently misleading and so to put Jacob up on a pedestal as the font of all knowledge is plain wrong.
> ...



This is really out of order. This thread is about wishing someone a speedy recovery. The insults are not necessary. If the mods want to take action, it should be to ban these keyboard warriors rather than protect these idiots. Absolutely unnecessary.


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## doctor Bob (8 Apr 2012)

I'd like to wish you a speedy recovery, I think the forum would be a duller place without Jacob but as mention previously it doesn't matter whether I'm with or against Jacob this thread was about Jacobs health, some seem to have lost the thread plot ....


I do struggle to see why he generates so much animosity, if you don't like him or his advice or his rudeness just ignore it. I don't respond to half the dribble posted on here, if I did I'd be here all day....


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## woodbloke (8 Apr 2012)

SBJ":cig9sq0r said:


> This is really out of order. This thread is about wishing someone a speedy recovery. The insults are not necessary. If the mods want to take action, it should be to ban these keyboard warriors rather than protect these idiots. Absolutely unnecessary.


Read SamQ's previous post SBJ...he does say something about wishing Jacob a speedy recovery, which I also agreed with - Rob


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## Digit (8 Apr 2012)

> or his rudeness just ignore it.



Why? I can understand Stuarts view point, but perhaps he should ask why people repond to jacob in this manner?

Roy.


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":2ck1oyl7 said:


> SBJ":2ck1oyl7 said:
> 
> 
> > This is really out of order. This thread is about wishing someone a speedy recovery. The insults are not necessary. If the mods want to take action, it should be to ban these keyboard warriors rather than protect these idiots. Absolutely unnecessary.
> ...



Ahh, that's ok then. Insult away. Go for it.


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## Modernist (8 Apr 2012)

This thread has taken an incredible turn. Clearly we are not short of les miserables.

Perhaps this has it's root in previous exchanges where les miserables came off worst.

I would be interested to know exactly where Jacob can be shown to have given incorrect advice in the areas of design, construction or technique. Setting aside the hobby horse of rounded bevels which do actually work (I have felt the edge) if you can be bothered.


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## Jacob (8 Apr 2012)

RogerS":w8e4b61u said:


> I forgot to add.... not too sure about some of Jacob's advice either. A lot of it is wrong, ......


How would you know? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Examples please.



> ....to put Jacob up on a pedestal as the font of all knowledge is plain wrong......


I agree with that at least. As far as I am concerned it's an ongoing discussion about how things should be done, basically for my own benefit as I have taken more interest in hand processes in the last few years. I reserve the right to be wrong on occasions!


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## Belfast Bespoke (8 Apr 2012)

SBJ":28g3qktf said:


> This is really out of order. This thread is about wishing someone a speedy recovery. The insults are not necessary. If the mods want to take action, it should be to ban these keyboard warriors rather than protect these idiots. Absolutely unnecessary.



Stuart, whilst i agree 100%, i fear you are wasting your time, as there are more mature attitudes to be found in the school playground.
It's unfortunate the levels some will drop too just to get a sly dig in. Perhaps they would be better off sloping back to their garden sheds.



modernist":28g3qktf said:


> This thread has taken an incredible turn. Clearly we are not short of les miserables.
> 
> Perhaps this has it's root in previous exchanges where les miserables came off worst.
> 
> I would be interested to know exactly where Jacob can be shown to have given incorrect advice in the areas of design, construction or technique. Setting aside the hobby horse of rounded bevels which do actually work (I have felt the edge) if you can be bothered.



Well put Brian, i think we would all be interested to find out from the self proclaimed "guru's" where the incorrect advise has been given.

Jacob,
Best wishes for a fully and speedy recovery :wink:


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## Noel (8 Apr 2012)

Modernist":3ekp1tp1 said:


> This thread has taken an incredible turn. Clearly we are not short of les miserables.
> 
> Perhaps this has it's root in previous exchanges where les miserables came off worst.
> 
> I would be interested to know exactly where Jacob can be shown to have given incorrect advice in the areas of design, construction or technique. Setting aside the hobby horse of rounded bevels which do actually work (I have felt the edge) if you can be bothered.



You're right. Sad state of affairs when a few, and they are in the minority, take a internet discussion forum so seriously that they can't even post a goodwill message to somebody. Sad indeed. You know who you are, try getting out a bit more.



> This is really out of order. This thread is about wishing someone a speedy recovery. The insults are not necessary. If the mods want to take action, it should be to ban these keyboard warriors rather than protect these idiots. Absolutely unnecessary.



May do.


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## Alf (8 Apr 2012)

Hmm. Now was this:

a) An opportunity for a Mod to air his own partiality.
or
b) An opportunity to lock the thread before it gets further out of hand?

Wanna phone a friend, Noel?

God, you're _all_ pathetic. Happy Easter - let me know when someone resurrects this place as a woodworking forum and not rent-an-argument.


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## doctor Bob (8 Apr 2012)

Alf":3rfv544l said:


> God, you're _all_ pathetic. Happy Easter - let me know when someone resurrects this place as a woodworking forum and not rent-an-argument.


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## Noel (8 Apr 2012)

Alf":2hjk2m20 said:


> Hmm. Now was this:
> 
> a) An opportunity for a Mod to air his own partiality.
> or
> ...



Alf, if you're so against an OT board, why are you posting here?
You don't like Jacob, fine, I don't have a problem with that. But it is a bit _pathetic_ when you attempt to insult others who don't agree with you. 
I or the other mods don't need "opportunities" to lock threads, it's a simple click or two with the mouse, you may recall.

Lend us your handbag Bob, will ya?


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## doctor Bob (8 Apr 2012)

Noel":vrx443l0 said:


> Lend us your handbag Bob, will ya?



It doesn't match with your high heels ...


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## Digit (8 Apr 2012)

> But it is a bit pathetic when you attempt to insult others who don't agree with you.



Agreed, which is my complaint against Jacob! I have lost count of the number of occasions I have been branded, moron, silly person etc, and to be branded a racist by someone who uses the term 'Towel heads' does not endear him to me.
Sorry, but that's it!

Roy.


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## woodbloke (8 Apr 2012)

Digit":3ukla2nl said:


> > But it is a bit pathetic when you attempt to insult others who don't agree with you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...or '_twerp_' in my particular case (and that post was reported to the mods, but I heard nothing, _and_ I asked to be informed of the outcome iIrc)
As to incorrect advise I'll just mention two for starters...the use of a ruler (where he finally, after much wrangling, admitted that '_yes_', there are occasions when they can be used and 'drawer slips' where his dogmatic and unchanging view ](*,) ](*,) is sometimes beyond my comprehension - Rob


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## doctor Bob (8 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":3doqxnnu said:


> ...or '_twerp_' in my particular case (and that post was reported to the mods, but I heard nothing, _and_ I asked to be informed of the outcome iIrc)



Really......... a "Twerp" ..... how offensive .... I'm off to call the internet police for you, we deserve justice .... if I was a mod I'd have demanded we chop off his danglies....


Can I say danglies....... Noel is danglies acceptable or should I say bo******


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

Well, if he called you a "twerp" - that changes everything.


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## Jacob (8 Apr 2012)

woodbloke":eq5mfe3x said:


> ......
> As to incorrect advise I'll just mention two for starters...the use of a ruler (where he finally, after much wrangling, admitted that '_yes_', there are occasions when they can be used


I never ever said they couldn't be used. What a ridiculous idea, I've no where you got it from. I use them often, and tapes. I think you just got something out of context.


> m and 'drawer slips' where his... view ... is sometimes beyond my comprehension - Rob


It is, isn't it! Not my fault though.
Any more examples?

PS I'm sorry I called you a _twerp_ Rob*. I don't know what came over me.  
*_If_ I did: you do seem to get things wrong on occasions.


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## JMcK (8 Apr 2012)

Interesting to compare the posts against the "ratings" against each poster. :shock: :lol:

From "Very Sharp" to "Valued Contributor" etc. :lol:


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## gus3049 (8 Apr 2012)

Oh dear...

I have only engaged in 'conversation' with Jacob on a very limited basis. However, on those occasions and on those others upon which I have merely been an observer, I have found him to be aggressively self opinionated and feel that maybe his parents spared the rod. It may of course just be the way I was bought up and is a function of my age. Its one of the shortcomings of forums that you can't see the look in the eye when someone is 'speaking' to you so that you can judge the real intent.

Considering the number of people that react the way they do, I can only assume that he behaves this way on purpose in order to provoke a response. If this is so, he deserves everything he gets. If not, perhaps he could use some of the regrettable time he now has off to reflect why so many folk on here and indeed on other forums, shoot right back.

However, considering the amount of time I have spent in hospital lately, I have great sympathy with his predicament and wish him a speedy recovery.


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## mtr1 (8 Apr 2012)

Get well soon, you old todger.

I think a few people on here take themselves a bit too seriously, its only woodwork after all. If there is something I have learnt over the years, is there are many ways to do a job. I would be interested to see where he has given bad advise, a different view perhaps, but not bad advise.


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## woodbloke (8 Apr 2012)

Jacob":25me4n1t said:


> PS I'm sorry I called you a _twerp_ Rob*. I don't know what came over me.
> *_If_ I did: you do seem to get things wrong on occasions.



Jacob, you certainly did and I was mortally offended :lol: but apology accepted. I do get things wrong and am happy to admit (and learn at the same time ) from my errors, but by the same token...so do you, but it's your steadfast ability to thrust your point of view down others throats without considering another viewpoint that intensely irritates me and other members. Hence _some_ of the tone of this thread. if you'd take '_time-out_' to see that there's more than one way to skin the proverbial '_chat_' UKW would be the far more genial and pleasant place that it once was. That said, there are issues where we've agreed and I've said so, the use of scrub planes for example being one. 
For all that though, I hope you're on the mend and having taken a tumble on a patch of ice a couple of winters ago (and also coming off the Blokebike  on the ice) I know how easily these things occur - Rob


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## Jacob (8 Apr 2012)

OK Rob thanks for that.


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

gus3049":3ozi3dn2 said:


> Oh dear...
> ..... I have found him to be aggressively self opinionated and feel that maybe his parents spared the rod. It may of course just be the way I was bought up and is a function of my age.........



We can only assume that your parents taught you to jump to conclusions? Come on, making comments about peoples parents now? Where will this end? 

I think that the "twerps" are showing themselves up here.


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## gus3049 (8 Apr 2012)

SBJ":2ql2wfwd said:


> gus3049":2ql2wfwd said:
> 
> 
> > Oh dear...
> ...



I think you need to read what is said a bit more carefully and realise that there are some expressions that have meanings beyond the words. This is no comment on his parents or any other relation. I was taught to be polite as possible in any situation whereas you are accusing me of being a twerp as opposed to merely uninformed..


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

gus3049":3h4hk0o2 said:


> SBJ":3h4hk0o2 said:
> 
> 
> > gus3049":3h4hk0o2 said:
> ...



Fair enough. So just to clarify, you didn't say that you thought that his parents spared the rod, and if you did say that, it was probably me not realising that you had used an expression that had a meaning beyond the words, and obviously my comprehension. 

I really don't think that you were being as polite as possible. I think that "polite as possible" would have been something along the lines of "get well soon" or wishing a speedy recovery and leaving it at that.


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## studders (8 Apr 2012)

Jacob":1p7qh297 said:


> OK Rob thanks for that.


Mods!!!!!

Jacob is being 'Nice' !!!!!!

It's a disgrace I tell yer. Something needs to be done about this _at once_ else, where will it all end eh??


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## Digit (8 Apr 2012)

Naughty step for you as well! :lol: 

Roy.


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## studders (8 Apr 2012)

I'm never off it.


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## Digit (8 Apr 2012)

:lol :lol: 

Roy.:


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## gus3049 (8 Apr 2012)

SBJ":1q04dbd5 said:


> .





> Fair enough. So just to clarify, you didn't say that you thought that his parents spared the rod, and if you did say that, it was probably me not realising that you had used an expression that had a meaning beyond the words, and obviously my comprehension.
> 
> I really don't think that you were being as polite as possible. I think that "polite as possible" would have been something along the lines of "get well soon" or wishing a speedy recovery and leaving it at that.



Yup,

Polite as possible 'in the circumstances'. We are talking about someone who manages to upset more people than I would have thought possible. He even rattled my cage and I am too old to allow such things and am certainly beyond responding again to this thread with more and more people getting involved and feeling aggressive it seems.

Even when he is not involved directly, his very spectre seems to lower our defenses - wierd.


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## SBJ (8 Apr 2012)

gus3049":2wyo3xk7 said:


> SBJ":2wyo3xk7 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



Surely these circumstances are a thread that informs you that Jacob had a bad leg?

ps - did we agree that you hadn't mentioned any family members?


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## Mike.C (8 Apr 2012)

This is going no where except in circle's, so lets call it a day.

Cheers

Mike


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