# Cheerio



## dicktimber (13 Apr 2010)

It was nice while it lasted.

I wish you all a nice life.
Bye bye

[Dick has removed his post but I have left his farewell here with a somewhat adjusted title}


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## wizer (13 Apr 2010)

Very nice Dick. Not keen on the knobs tho :lol:


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## dicktimber (13 Apr 2010)

ree


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## frugal (14 Apr 2010)

I really like it, the only thing is that looking at one of the photos of the side, it looks like the fielded panel is proud of the legs. Or is that just a trick of the camera?


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## woodbloke (14 Apr 2010)

Nice work. It's only me I know, but I hate those metal drawer runner thingies with a passion :twisted: You do good stuff (read me here as well) and then go and spoil it by stuffing in lumps of slidy steel. 
In my view, if a decent carcass has been constructed properly, as this one has, then the very least it deserves is well made and fitted drawers. I'd expect to pull out a drawer (handles are probably too large as well) and see it glide out smoothly on runners and kickers, not supported by some metal monstrosity screwed to the sides. 
Sorry.  Rant over - Rob


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## wizer (14 Apr 2010)

au contrair, I'd never use anything else. Because they offer smoother running, less maintenance and true full extension. Most of all, they're bloody easy to fit, which is important to some makers. Some of us just need furniture, not the finest furniture man can make.


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## AndyT (14 Apr 2010)

Does anyone know if there is a clever compromise? Bearing in mind that these drawers will have CDs on edge, and once they are full, you need to get the whole depth out in front of the frame to get to the back, which makes metal runners a good functional choice ...

I can only think of a bodge with the sides overlong - but that's no better than blocking off the backs of the drawers as 'out of use'. Something like a desk with extending lopers perhaps? (thus tripling the time to actually make the thing....)


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## wizer (14 Apr 2010)

Under mount runners


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## dicktimber (14 Apr 2010)

g.


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## chingerspy (14 Apr 2010)

I really like the piece, apart from the handles. It seems to be a commission piece from your last post so I guess design choices were collaborated on.

I know where Rob was coming from regarding the runners though. To be fair he was counting himself as someone who does the same thing.

I'm brand new to this game and am benefitting so much from all the comments on here. I've not posted any specific fine furniture up for critique but would expect it to be as harshly judged as all the other posts I see. These guys don't hold back 

I can't see how a traditional runner/kicker arrangement could handle such weight at full extension without having pull out blocks most of the length of the drawer. These would let the drawer rest on them like I've seen on some old writing desks (we have one like this in the front room). This in my opinion would be too much fuss for something designed to be opened and closed quickly. We used to have an old cabinet with pretty chunky drawers that stored our tapes back in the 80's. I couldn't count the amount of times those drawers fell on us when accessing the tapes at the back.

I suppose I'm now interested in the question, What is the best traditional method of dealing with heavy drawers?

Besides taking them out completely to access the contents (which may be too much weight for the person). Or was it just deemed common sense to stop adding stuff when you could no longer lift it out?


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## woodbloke (14 Apr 2010)

dicktimber":2bnyugqc said:


> Woodbloke
> 
> You obviously have given little thought to size of the piece, maximum quantity of CD's to be held, the weight of each drawer full of 100 plus CD's each, and time verses cost, and access to the cd's at the back of the cabinet.
> 
> ...


Had you taken the trouble to actually read what I writ, I did say that "it was only me" a personal view on one feature of a piece of work...and I did also say that I liked it, apart from the feature of the ghastly drawer runners. 
If a piece of work is offered up for viewing on the Projects forum, then it's reasonable to expect it to come under a critical eye which may or may not involve some adverse criticism. I've said time and again regarding my own work that I'm happy to see all comments, provided that they can be justified. I said that I don't like to see these metal runners on what's basically a decent piece of furniture because for me, it just spoils it...period. 
I'm also increasingly hacked off with the way that mundane platitudes can be expressed regarding work on view rather than a true assessment or critique of the piece. 
I will continue to offer my views, because it's only by seeing all viewpoints that we can learn and move forward - Rob


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## big soft moose (14 Apr 2010)

dicktimber":35ze4chp said:


> It is little wonder that newbies join and then never come back to this site.
> People do not need frightening off with RANTS yr words.
> .....
> 
> Use a little restraint next time, or some logical reasoning.



are these your teddies on the floor , would you like them back in your cot ???

Rob was merely expressing an opinion - thats what forums are for, the fact that you disagree with his view doesnt imply that he shouldnt have said it

and as one of the biggest ranters on the site its more than a little hypocritical for you to have a pop at rob like this.


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## Ross K (14 Apr 2010)

I don't care what "purists" say - full extension runners cannot be beaten for functionality and maintenance-free reliability. I accept however the aesthetic argument which is why I use the concealed type.

The benefits for the customer are a lower product price and drawers that will work smoothly for years and from which you can actually access the whole drawer - surely the very point of a drawer, which arguably has only been achieved since the advent of fully extending steel runners?


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## wizer (14 Apr 2010)

Well you _can _do it with wood. I think Chris Knight did it once? But it seemed a lot of work and more of a 'coz I can' project. Not that I'm knocking it. But you can't beat the simplicity of using the concealed doodads.

I think Dick 'had a moment' Let's not dwell on it. He's produced a lovely piece of furniture. Something not a lot of us do, often.


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## Ross K (14 Apr 2010)

woodbloke":3udcd31i said:


> I'm also increasingly hacked off with the way that mundane platitudes can be expressed regarding work on view rather than a true assessment or critique of the piece.
> I will continue to offer my views, because it's only by seeing all viewpoints that we can learn and move forward - Rob



I totally agree, and will continue to occasionally post pics of my works on this basis i.e. not get offended if people say what they really think.

My best, most honest critic is my wife. If she hates one of my pieces she tells me! The main thing is that each customer likes the pieces I'm making for them!!


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## Ross K (14 Apr 2010)

wizer":3c87dbvj said:


> Well you _can _do it with wood. I think Chris Knight did it once? But it seemed a lot of work and more of a 'coz I can' project.



I would agree with that. Not something I tend to do if I want to make an income from a piece! :lol:


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## dicktimber (14 Apr 2010)

Tone

Can I answer the question about heavy drawers first?


MY mother in law has them and having seen them on her washing line I can tell you they bend the line down to the floor there is so much weight in them! :lol: :lol: 

The traditional drawer was never intended for heavy stuff...
Look at where the traditional drawer was used. Clothing, bedding, etc
The down side of the design is when heavy objects are put in them.
Every home garage after the war, was equipped with a chest of drawers that had been thrown out, and filled up with metal tools, spanners, car jacks, wheel braces you name it.
It was impossible to open.

Metal runners will take very high loads and solve a problem.
But this is only part of the story when I first looked at this application.
By making a prototype it enables design flaws to be ironed out.
The cabinet in question, when full can safely have two drawers fully open without the cabinet tippling over.
If it had been narrower this would not have been possible. If it was made deeper it would have looked out of proportion
So like most things there had to be a compromise.

The true traditional drawer has dust panels buit inbetween drawers.
This was to help prevent dust from open fires getting into the stored clothing in the drawers, and stopped you over filling the drawer.
But, although traditionalists say they build as it should be built, how many chests of drawers do you see with dust panels fitted?
It's an extra cost that with todays central heating has become unnecessary.

I am sure as you progress you will try different materials, methods of manufacture etc.
Evolving how you make things is personal.
If it looks good, works and can be made for the right price you have cracked it.
That includes using whatever is at your disposal in the market place to achieve those three things.
Good luck for the future.


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## OPJ (14 Apr 2010)

I like it. 

Did you have any trouble with the elm moving at all?


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## dicktimber (14 Apr 2010)

Woodbloke

The point is you ranted, 
children do this, not grown men.

You offered no constructive alternative to what, 'You don't like'
only that 'you don't like them.

So, my ears are pinned back for your solution, to not using full extending metal runners in this particular project.


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## Paul Chapman (14 Apr 2010)

Very nice piece, Dick, and I reckon the choice of metal runners was absolutely right for the use this cabinet will be put to. "Piston fit", traditional drawers may have looked nice but would never have worked well with the weight of 100s of CDs.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dicktimber (14 Apr 2010)

Olly

I machined the elm oversize.
Brought it into a centrally heated house for 5 weeks or so
Machined again and brought it inside again for about the same time then finally machined and assembled.

It has shown no sign of movement to date, but it has all been sealed so fingers crossed.


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## dicktimber (14 Apr 2010)

Paul
and eveyone
thank's for the comments....even woodblokes :lol: :lol:


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## big soft moose (14 Apr 2010)

dicktimber":15di1por said:


> Woodbloke
> 
> The point is you ranted,
> children do this, not grown men.
> ...



really :roll: - mr pot meet mr kettle 

this for example

like i said you are one of the biggest ranters on this site , and yet you seem blind to the double standard in hammering rob for daring to suggest that your work isnt perfect.

I agree with rob that the metal runners are fugly and let the whole piece down, and as to constructive alternative how about concealed metal runners, under runners, or carcase construction - all already suggested on this thread


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## harryc (14 Apr 2010)

I have to agree with Rob, he only gave his opinion which after all is the reason why this unit was offered for view. The only rant I have read was from the OP who seems to have been offended by somebody having the temerity not to admire his construction.

It does seem like it sometimes that the most ridiculous praise is heaped on the most hideous piece of rubbish rather than the critique the piece deserves. Be that from a newbie or experienced woodworker.

Harry


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## TheTiddles (14 Apr 2010)

It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen, I'm going to name my first child after you (then drown it in a river)

Happy now?

If you put something in a public domain you invite criticism, ask a politician.

Back on subject, are those Blum under-drawer runners the acceptable compromise, freaking expensive though they are? You can't see them but the drawer still behaves as if it's on BB runners. I can't make up my mind on this one...

Aidan


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## Ironballs (14 Apr 2010)

Nice looking piece Dick and you've tamed the elm well, you just need to get Richard F to turn you some nice knobs  

With regard to critique I agree with Paul and Rob, I don't like metal runners but I struggle to see what else would have fulfilled your design brief without being overly complicated. Good job well made

Cheers

Damian

PS - I've got something in my current project that is guaranteed to annoy Rob


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## woodbloke (15 Apr 2010)

I will concede from a _functional_ point of view, these hideous things were a necessary evil...perhaps (note the delicate diplomatic phraseology) some of those Blum runners that could be hidden would have been a better solution? The small 'footprint' of the piece and the weight it needs to carry really dictates that something other than traditional construction needs to be employed. My comments were based on an aesthetic viewpoint rather than a functional one.
Certainly if it were my cabinet I wouldn't be able to enjoy the contents 'cos every time it was opened I'd see those bloody metal monstrosities :lol: 

Damian - sap? 8-[ - Rob


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## Philly (15 Apr 2010)

If its any help I made a cabinet a while ago and needed to use metal runners - but wanted to hide them away. So I used the Blum under-drawer runners - not cheap but well worth it!
















Hope this helps,
Philly


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## woodbloke (15 Apr 2010)

I saw this a couple of years ago at the Phillyshop...and very good it is too. Those runners are the bad boys that I think would have been better in this instance - Rob


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## wizer (15 Apr 2010)

wow Philly I don't remember ever seeing that piece. Are the sides 'rippled'? If so, how did you do it? This is a style I've always wanted to do.


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## big soft moose (15 Apr 2010)

woodbloke":1qi65mqr said:


> I saw this a couple of years ago at the Phillyshop...and very good it is too. Those runners are the bad boys that I think would have been better in this instance - Rob



I note that there is no knob on that - are those babies push to open as well ?


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## OPJ (15 Apr 2010)

Tom, I'm pretty sure it was on his old blog (Philsville) though, right now, I can't find it...?


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## Philly (15 Apr 2010)

All is revealed here...

http://www.philsville.co.uk/fluted_table.htm


Philly


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## wizer (15 Apr 2010)

Love it. Very nice Phil.


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## Ironballs (15 Apr 2010)

Not sap Rob (as this piece is oak and oak sap is awful, soft and won't fume well) but something equally offensive.

So has Dick taken his bat and ball home then?

I thought on balance he had a good response with more thumbs up than down


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## TheTiddles (15 Apr 2010)

Nice cabinet Philly, the drawer is interesting, it looks like it's floating which I would have thought would be great but when I look at it I'm slightly unerved by it, that said it's probably the effect you were after and acheived.

Aidan


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## Chris Knight (15 Apr 2010)

I have removed several posts and edited one that remains. The Projects section is no place for people to lose their manners. 

By all means be honest and forthright in your opinions here but name calling etc. is unwarranted and pointless.


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## Matt_S (15 Apr 2010)

Removed, Chris posted as I was writing.


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