# Scrollsaw cutting



## Blacklabradorman (8 Jun 2009)

Hi everyone,

I seem to struggling with my cutting. I know my cheap saw probably doesn't help (It's the Pro model from B&Q) but if anyone has any advice I'd be grateful.

When I look at demos on YouTube they seem to be able to turn the wood around (spin it) quite quickly. I have tried this, even really slowly, but the blade always snaps. Can this only be done with 'spiral' blades?

Thanks in advance
Sean


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## Gill (8 Jun 2009)

Hi Sean

Welcome to the forum  .

Cutting tight curves with a plain blade can take a lot of practise before you can do it without breakage.

It helps if you are using thin wood and fine blades. A zero clearance table insert will also help, minimising any stress that might be imposed on the blade.

Some scrollers like to prepare their blades in advance by fitting them into the saw, switching it on, then holding a file against the back of the blade to round it over. However, this is not really necessary. The trick is to use good quality blades (the more aggressive the better) and keep the blade cutting while you turn the workpiece. It may seem counter-intuitive, but backing the blade out of the cut slightly so it has the minimum amount of pressure on the cutting teeth can help enormously, provided you are able to maintain some contact between the teeth and the workpiece.

Gill


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## Blacklabradorman (8 Jun 2009)

Hi Gill,

Thanks for your reply. 

Does it matter what size blade is used? I can't remember what I have tried but the numbers 5 and 7 come to mind.

When you say more agressive do you mean less tpi?

Thanks again

best regards
Sean


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## Gill (8 Jun 2009)

Try using a smaller blade. You might get away with a #3 but a #1 would be more likely to produce success.

My preferred blades for tight cuts are Flying Dutchman which just seem to cut more aggressively compared to their peers. Although some people find them too aggressive, they are nevertheless very popular and seem to last slightly longer than other brands before losing their sharpness. However, different people prefer different blades. Some people prefer Olson blades, others Pegas, and there are other brands out there too  . Yet surprisingly, there are only two factories in the world which actually manufacture scroll saw blades - Olson and Nicqua.

So when I talked about using aggressive blades, I did not mean any specific blade type. What I meant was to find a blade which suited you and which you found to be acceptably aggressive.

Incidentally, if you've never tried Flying Dutchman blades before you can ask for a free sample pack to see how you get on with them.

Gill


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## Blacklabradorman (8 Jun 2009)

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply. I'll definitely give those options a try - my blades are probably far too big. It's strange though because I just bought some blades which were recommended for a project in Scrollsaw magazine.

Noticed that the free sample offer is only for the US.

Thanks again Gill

Regards
Sean


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## Gill (8 Jun 2009)

Blacklabradorman":34zhbflw said:


> Noticed that the free sample offer is only for the US.


Indeed, that's what the website says. However, if you email Mike and ask nicely, sometimes he can be very obliging :wink:  . It would also be worth asking for his advice about cutting tight curves and corners using his blades.

Have you seen Rick Hutcheson's website? He has lots of useful advice about scroll saws, including tips on cutting.

Gill


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## Blacklabradorman (8 Jun 2009)

Wel I'll try - as you say it doesn't hurt to ask.

You've been really helpful - can I just ask one more question. What does it mean when the size is 2/0 or 3/0? I'm guessing these are even smaller than 0?

regards
Sean


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## Gill (8 Jun 2009)

You guess correctly  .

The coarser a blade, the higher its number. A #9 is coarser than a #5, which in turn is coarser than a #3. Yet there are blades which are finer than #1 so a different scale is used for these fine blades. Often known as 'jewellers blades', they start at #0/2 (fine) and go down to #0/8 (very fine). Technically speaking, jewellers blades are designed for cutting metal so it is incorrect to ascribe this name to blades designed for cutting wood. The name does not seem to be important, though; when you are using such fine blades, it matters little if you are cutting metal or wood - you still hold your breath until you have finished  .

Gill


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## Mike M (9 Jun 2009)

Hi Gill,

Olson does not makes blades, Haunstetter in Germany make them for Olson. Pegas blades are made in Switzerland.

Noticed that the free sample offer is only for the US. This is not on my web site. Postage of $ 2.00 is only for the US and Canada all other countries pay the postage what it cost me. No hanldling charges.

Thanks for the kind words, Gill.

Mike


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## Gill (9 Jun 2009)

Mike M":2td9kr4u said:


> Olson does not makes blades, Haunstetter in Germany make them for Olson. Pegas blades are made in Switzerland.



How interesting - I won't tell you who gave me my information for fear of embarrassing the person concerned. He's supposed to be well informed  ! So would it be right to say there are three principal blade manufacturers - Haunstetter, Pegas and Niqua?

Gill


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## Mike M (10 Jun 2009)

Gill,
I would tell him because it is true. I have been to the Haunstetter factory and have seen all the boxes with Olson's names on it. The president has told me himself that they are making the blades for Olson.
I believe there is also a company in China, not sure. HBoever I have sold blades to China.
Mike


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## Carter Johnson (10 Jun 2009)

Hi Sean....

I'm the guy who's responsible for a lot of freehand jigsaw puzzles. These require many very tight turns with very thin blades.

I think there are two skills required for turns. Both come rapidly with experience.

1) We learn to anticipate the turn. Our brain tells our fingers to stop the forward motion and start the turn micro-seconds in advance of actually needing to make the turn. Without this we tend to overshoot the point of the turn and then have to make difficult and wood-tearing adjustments.

2) We learn to completely stop the forward motion of the saw while it is running at full speed. Some will advise to press forward on the dull side of the blade while making the turn. I believe the turns can be accomplished by learning to completely quit pushing the wood while negotiating the turn, and resuming the forward motion only as needed.

I know these hints may sound like ultra-sophisticated psychology, but these skills come automatically with experience....and your enjoyment of intricate scroll sawing will increase with each success.

The most important thing,,,,Have Phun,,,,, Carter


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## Blacklabradorman (10 Jun 2009)

Hi Carter,

Many thanks for the info. It makes a lot of sense.

From Woodturning I know that quality machinery and tools can make a difference. Do you think any of it could be down to my 'cheap' scrollsaw? There seems to be a lot of vibration and I'm wondering whether it is also moving sideways slightly?

Regards
Sean


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## Carter Johnson (10 Jun 2009)

Yes, Sean, that could be the primary cause of your breaking blades. Vibration will do it every time. Make sure the saw is mounted securely, perhaps even securing it to a thin foam layer to try to reduce the vibration - or take the plunge and buy a new one. There are many suggestions from your UK friends on this forum. You'll be glad you did.

Carter


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## Gill (10 Jun 2009)

It's great to hear from you Carter, and I agree with your excellent advice about technique, but - ooh - foam matting? That's controversial  . A lot of people would question the effectiveness of inserting a foam mat or any form of cushioning between a scroll saw and the workbench. When you are trying to minimise vibration, the key is to add mass to the saw, and to do this the saw needs to be fixed as tightly as possible to its (heavy) bench or support plinth. Placing a mat between the saw and the workbench will counter this effect and actually exacerbate vibration.

Go on... tell us you have an anti-vibration mat under your DW788 and you swear by it   !

Sean - when you said you had a basic scroll saw model I deliberately shied away from commenting because it's so easy for someone who has a premium saw to criticise cheaper models. I'd hate to be accused of snobbery! Moreover, there's lots of good work produced on bottom-end saws.

Now that you've used a saw, I suspect you'll have an inkling if scrolling is for you. I started with a Spiralux electromagnetic saw (imagine the vibration on one of those  ) and soon recognised that my scrolling experience would be so much better if I upgraded. If you're in the same situation as I was, start thinking about upgrading to a quality saw. They are horrendously expensive nowadays, especially with the weakness of Sterling against the Euro, but you'll be delighted with the improvement in your scrolling experience.

Gill


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## Carter Johnson (11 Jun 2009)

I'm sorry, Gil. My brain works in ovals sometimes. I thought maybe a piece of no more than 1/4" foam might prevent the saw's vibration from making the table vibrate and increasing the problem. 

Carter


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## Gill (11 Jun 2009)

That's okay, Carter  . An awful lot of people share the belief that placing matting between the saw and the workbench will reduce vibration. Indeed, I have even seen some retailers market their saws with a free anti-vibration mat! Instead, perhaps they ought to be selling saws which don't vibrate.

A lot of vibration is caused by the saw not being mounted properly. The heavier the saw, the less likely it is to vibrate, but even the best quality saw will vibrate if it is operated on a lightweight bench. A good saw stand is very important. I once had a sturdy workbench which was embedded in a brick wall and bolted to a concrete floor - no vibration at all. Then I had to move the saw to a new workshop with a wooden floor and an old flat-pack computer desk instead of a proper workbench. The same saw, which had been practically vibration-free, now danced like popcorn! Fortunately, a friend gave me a huge slab of granite to place between the desk and the saw, and the vibration all but stopped. Instead of using some foam or matting which would have reduced the saw's mass, I had added mass.

Perhaps I should have mentioned earlier that one of the best ways to establish a bench-mark for the vibration in a saw is to set it up on a concrete floor and see how it vibrates when it is switched on. Then see how improvements such as bolting the saw to paving slabs or mounting it on a box of compressed sand help to reduce the vibration.

Gill


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## Blacklabradorman (11 Jun 2009)

Thank you all for your input - definitely lots of things to try. I think I'll have to persevere with my 'bargain' saw for a while just to gain experience. Your comments about adding mass make a lot of sense Gill.

In the meantime I'll keep an eye out for any bargains....

Thanks again

Regards
Sean


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## Blacklabradorman (11 Jun 2009)

Mike M said:


> Noticed that the free sample offer is only for the US. This is not on my web site. Postage of $ 2.00 is only for the US and Canada all other countries pay the postage what it cost me. No hanldling charges.
> Mike



Sorry Mike I didn't get back to you on this - this is what I saw on your website and it seems to indicate it's only available in the US and Canada:-

I am so convinced you'll appreciate the quality of Flying Dutchman blades that I am prepared to send you 2 blades of the blade you think you'll use the most before making a purchase. This offer is available to residents of U.S. and Canada only. Just drop me an e-mail requesting a sample. The exception is New Heavy Duty blades - Send me $1 and I'll send you two blades. 

regards
Sean


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## Blacklabradorman (11 Jun 2009)

I can only dream of acquiring a Hegner scrollsaw but one thing I can't tell from the images available - can you change the blades quickly?

I think the Axminster AWFS18 has a quick release mechanism - how much easier does that make it and is quick-release worth worrying about anyway?

Thanks as always

Sean


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## Gill (11 Jun 2009)

Keep an eye on eBay, Sean. There's nothing worth having there right now that I can see, but good second-hand Hegners do pop up from time to time. (I got a barely used Multicut Quick plus stand for a couple of hundred quid  ) Try to get a Hegner with a tension release lever on the upper arm, though - the old models don't have this and it is an improvement which does make life easier.

If you ever buy a Hegner, there's an accessory called a 'Quick Release Clamp' which is very helpful for pierced work and when changing blades. It will also fit the Axminster AWFS18, I believe, although there are AWFS18 owners on the forum who will no doubt soon be along to tell you all about their saw.

Gill


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## chrispuzzle (11 Jun 2009)

The Axminster AWFS18 doesn't have a quick release mechanism but as Gill says, it will take Hegner quick release clamps (which have a thumbwheel) as it is basically a Hegner clone less some frills and finish.

The Hegner quick release clamps are not the fastest change in the world, but they are a lot quicker than laying the clamps in a jig at the side of the machine and using allen keys.

Quick release is worth worrying about if you make a lot of interior cuts as you will when doing portraits and other intricate patterns with hollow areas, as each interior cut requires taking the blade out and then putting it back in again, threading it through a new starter hole in the workpiece. This may be dozens of times with a single piece of work and so it makes a big difference.

It is of no great importance if you are cutting jigsaw puzzles or other work where most of the cuts start and end at the outside of the workpiece and you can keep the blade in the clamps until the blade itself becomes too blunt to use.


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## Blacklabradorman (12 Jun 2009)

Sorry more questions:-

I've read in other posts about a Diamond machine but I can't seem to find anything about them. Can anyone tell me if they have ceased trading or been taken over?

Thanks again

Sean


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## Gill (12 Jun 2009)

Diamond saws were manufactured by Doug Woodward. Sadly, he died recently and as a result Diamond saws are no longer manufactured.

Gill


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