# Terms and Conditions for buying car tyres



## JBaz (15 Jun 2021)

My wife's car (BMW i3) picked up a puncture and since I've never known a tyre shop be willing to repair one, I went onto the web to get a new tyre fitted.

Wow! I had no idea that even specifying the brand, name and size there were still a huge number of variants. Why a manufacturer would produce the same tyre rated at different speeds is beyond me. Surely making them all for the fastest rated speed would simplify things for everybody?

As I wanted the tyres on each side to match, I checked the current tyres only to find that due to a previous puncture replacement the two rear tyres were slightly different. One is an 89Q and the other is an 85Q. What's more, neither tyre was as specified on the printed sticker inside the door frame (which said 85Q XL), and one of them was factory fitted!

On the web, the variation in price for the same tyre was £94 to over £150 but not all suppliers provided the full spec details. Eventually found an exact match on the Asda Tyres site fitted by my local tyre shop. Just out of interest I called the tyre shop for a quote, which came in at £37 more. When I mentioned the Adsa quote for the same tyre that would be fitted by them, they said it must be "old stock".

Anyway, Asda seemed the best deal so I started the online ordering process and when it asked me to accept their terms and conditions, for once I thought I'd read them, or at least the clauses relating to what Asda are supplying. I was stunned to read the following - 

_3.4 Asda Tyres reserves the right to change the Goods or any relative specifications (whether such specifications have been submitted by the Customer in the Customer's order or otherwise) and designs at any time, without notice, as a result of changes in the law or at the sole discretion of Asda Tyres. _

As I read it, this means that even if I order a specific tyre, Asda can supply anything they like! I'm not sure who would be liable (Asda or the fitting company) if the tyre fitted resulted in an accident. I emailed Asda asking if they considered this a reasonable condition of sale, but I haven't had a reply yet.

To be fair to Asda, I looked at a number of other sites T's & C's and found them to be the same. In fact identical, with just the name changed, so I suspect that they all use the same back-end with just the user interface bespoked to their brand.

Anybody had a similar experience with tyres or other products?


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## artie (15 Jun 2021)

Why not put a tube in?


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## D_W (15 Jun 2021)

Where is the puncture? Plug and patch combo is standard here for tread puncture. Sidewalls damage is generally terminal. 

I have used the plug only kits before for small punctures, and have never encountered a failure of those. They used to be the typical fix on tubeless but now the lits have warnings all over them about being temporary only. But they're still the same thing. I'm guessing that's for liability limitation.


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## Fitzroy (15 Jun 2021)

Agree regards all the options and the large variation in price for the same tyre. Ended up using Asda tyres for new boots all round on the wife's car, they were nearly £100 (30%) cheaper than Halfords direct, and were fitted at halfords the next day no questions asked. Modern business confuses me!


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## JBaz (15 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Why not put a tube in?


I don't think you are allowed to put a tube in a tubeless tyre (for road use).


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## Yojevol (15 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> _3.4 Asda Tyres reserves the right to change the Goods or any relative specifications (whether such specifications have been submitted by the Customer in the Customer's order or otherwise) and designs at any time, without notice, as a result of changes in the law or at the sole discretion of Asda Tyres. _
> Anybody had a similar experience with tyres or other products?



Having purchased 4 tyres from Halfords recently and have often used Kwikfit I decided to look at their T&C's. There are no similar clauses on their sites.
Brian


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## Spectric (15 Jun 2021)

Not worth fitting expensive tyres because the roads are in such a state they are like cheese graters and with low profile tyres you also have the added risk of rim damage when you hit a pot hole.


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## artie (15 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> I don't think you are allowed to put a tube in a tubeless tyre (for road use).


Any idea why not?


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## jcassidy (15 Jun 2021)

I have never had a problem getting simple punctures repaired on my tubeless tyres (Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics). Only damage to the sidewalls is irreparable. Garages have yanked out all sorts over the years - nails, screws, random bits off other cars... fill the holes with some gunk, let it dry and pop the tyre back on the rims. I guess there's a limit to how big the hole can be, but I've never hit it.

The different codes are for variations - the same "tyre" can come with rub strips to protect the alloys from curbs, treads which are less noisy, or more fuel efficient, blah blah. They're really all diffferent tyres but the it's easier marketing to call them the same tyre and have a tonne of different codes!!

The opposite of Henry Ford's philosophy.


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## jcassidy (15 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Any idea why not?



The tube won't be safely seated in the rim and may also interfere with the tyre itself being safely seated. Also, the valve is permanently affixed on a tubeless wheel.


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## JBaz (15 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Any idea why not?


No. One for Google!


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## JBaz (15 Jun 2021)

Yojevol said:


> Having purchased 4 tyres from Halfords recently and have often used Kwikfit I decided to look at their T&C's. There are no similar clauses on their sites.
> Brian


Thanks. Hadn't thought of them. Their price is good so I just ordered the tyre for fitting on Thursday.
Their T's & C's do have a clause regarding changing specification but it is more reasonable than Asda's.

*12. Specification of Products and Services*
_a) All Products supplied will correspond with any specification provided by Us and be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. We may, after the date of the contract, make reasonable changes to the specification of any Products or Services where that is required to ensure compliance with any applicable law or code of practice and/or where those changes do not result in any reduction to the standard, quality or performance of the Products or Services in question or otherwise place you at any disadvantage._


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## PerryGunn (15 Jun 2021)

I think that the OP's i3 will have been fitted with runflat tyres from new - AFAIAA tubes aren't suitable for a runflat due to the construction (very stiff sidewalls and/or additional internal structures)

While it is possible to get runflat punctures repaired as long as they are in the central 'safe zone', runflats have limits to distance/speed that they can be used while 'flat' as this causes progressive damage to the structures that allow them to be driven on in this condition. 

This results in a lot of tyre places refusing to repair as they don't know how far (and at what speed) the tyre has been driven whilst punctured. I have had a couple of repairs to runflats on our X3 - both after visiting the local tip so only a couple of miles from home. When turning up at a local tyre fitters for the repair, I immediately mention when the low pressure warning occurred and how far/fast I've driven- this seems to give them the confidence that the internal structure of the tyre has not been compromised.


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## profchris (15 Jun 2021)

I suspect the Asda terms simply copy those they use for selling groceries. Asda doesn't want complaints if its driver turns up with a different brand of butter!


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## Inspector (15 Jun 2021)

Here any tire shop will charge you through the nose to mount tires from a third party that would probably negate the savings from online purchases and they would not warranty them. The tires they sell will be guaranteed for flats and road hazards for the life of the tires including roadside service. I have no idea what a private local garage would charge to mount a tire brought in and I doubt they would warrantee them against flats, just their mounting and balance. 

The wife's new Audi got a 3" screw right in the middle of the tread a week after she bought it. Put air in the tire and drove it to the dealer. They pulled the tire, plugged it, patched over it inside the tire and then balanced it. I hated the $65 charge but it was a dealer and their rates are higher than other shops. Didn't get the extended warranty that would have covered the flat for free but that was spendy too.  

Pete


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## Ozi (15 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> I don't think you are allowed to put a tube in a tubeless tyre (for road use).


I believe it's legal but it's not a good idea and I really wouldn't do it on a car you intend to drive fast or on long journeys. You could also find issues with manufacturers warranty. Tyres designed for tubes are smoother inside with tubeless tyres they rub on the tube and get hot which causes ware


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## starlingwood (15 Jun 2021)

Within reason a tyre is just a tyre IMO, don't get sucked into all the marketing to make you think you need a certain type of tyre. I have got punctures fixed in the past they just must be in the centre of tyre not near on wall. I never buy the unbranded one but the mid-range and I never take any notice of matching tyres, speed ratings or summer or winter tyres and I've been happily driving 20K miles a year for the past 20 years with no problems.


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## Jameshow (15 Jun 2021)

So long as the tyre is the right size has the right load rating all is good. 

You perhaps get more miles out of top draw tyres but I generally go budget from a local independent chap £75 for 235 60 r17 van tyres. 

Cheers James


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## sploo (15 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> My wife's car (BMW i3) picked up a puncture and since I've never known a tyre shop be willing to repair one, I went onto the web to get a new tyre fitted.
> 
> Wow! I had no idea that even specifying the brand, name and size there were still a huge number of variants. Why a manufacturer would produce the same tyre rated at different speeds is beyond me. Surely making them all for the fastest rated speed would simplify things for everybody?
> 
> As I wanted the tyres on each side to match, I checked the current tyres only to find that due to a previous puncture replacement the two rear tyres were slightly different. One is an 89Q and the other is an 85Q. What's more, neither tyre was as specified on the printed sticker inside the door frame (which said 85Q XL), and one of them was factory fitted!


The 85 vs 89 bit is the load rating (how much weight the tyre can take). Q refers to the max allowed speed (99mph in this instance).

XL means reinforced; and can usually take slightly higher pressures for higher loads.

I believe it's generally not a problem to use a tyre with a higher load rating (89 instead of 85), but it would probably be sensible to match the load rating on a single axle.

Generally I've used Black Circles for getting new tyres, and their website will search by the car's registration; so although you'll be faced with all the possible wheel size options for your car, it shouldn't be too bad to find the right tyre.


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## Sandyn (15 Jun 2021)

To stay 'legal' and make sure the car behaves as expected, I always check the car handbook to find the correct size/load/speed rating for the car. I don't want to give the insurance company any reason to refuse a claim if there was an accident and something isn't right.


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Jun 2021)

^^^^ yes, in theory you should inform them when fitting anything different.


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## pgrbff (16 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> I don't think you are allowed to put a tube in a tubeless tyre (for road use).


In Italy theyseem happy to put a tube in a punctured tubeless unless hole is in the side.


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## see_sam_saw (16 Jun 2021)

Sandyn said:


> To stay 'legal' and make sure the car behaves as expected, I always check the car handbook to find the correct size/load/speed rating for the car. I don't want to give the insurance company any reason to refuse a claim if there was an accident and something isn't right.


I agree with this approach. 

Car manufacturers don't want their products flying off the road and therefore we can presume they tell us which tyre keeps our car (and all its integrated systems) functioning optimally. 

Whether or not a plug is a good idea depends entirely on how you use the car. I say: heavy loads and/or high speeds, replace the tyre (or tyres). I am not interested in discovering the service limit of a tyre plug on a motorway.


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## stuart little (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Why not put a tube in?


Fitting tubes to tubeless tyres is a NO - N0 ,in fact as far as I know, against the law.


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## Fergie 307 (16 Jun 2021)

They don't make them all the same because then you would all have to buy tyres rated for high speeds, which are more expensive. For example my 1988 500se Mercedes has a top speed electronically limited to 155mph. The specified tyres are rated for that speed, and very expensive. Since I don't intend to ever drive it at anything like that speed, I have fitted tyres rated up to I think 120mph, much cheaper. You also have to consider weight, the Merc weighs about 1 3/4 tons, another car using the same size tyre might weigh much less, hence the different load ratings. You really shouldn't mix them up, particularly on a car with any serious performance that you intend to drive hard. If you are just pottering about it probably doesn't matter that much, but still best avoided.
As to punctured I have had loads repaired over the years, fine if it's a small hole in the tread. And most tyre shops will take a dim view of you bringing them tyres you have bought elsewhere to be fitted. Many will either charge you through the nose, or just flatly refuse to have anything to do with them. At the end of the day you are driving round on four bits of rubber, each of which only had a contact patch about the size of a credit card. How they perform is pretty damned important. If you ever find yourself in the position where you have to do a real world emergency stop, then having different tyres on each front wheel is very likely to make the car swerve to one side. If someone came to you and said I want you to build me a wooden box, you say "what wood?" They say " just wood, I mean wood is wood innit? " You would no doubt a) think they were pretty stupid, and b) proceed to explain the various different types of wood and their relative merits. Tyres are no different.


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## Jonm (16 Jun 2021)

Inspector said:


> Here any tire shop will charge you through the nose to mount tires from a third party





Fergie 307 said:


> Many will either charge you through the nose, or just flatly refuse to have anything to do with them


I thought the same so I went on the Asda website and there is a toggle for “mail Order” and “fully fitted” with about £10 difference in price. For my car I put in the registration number and it gave a large number of different tyre types, prices and when they could be fitted, generally today or tomorrow. Perhaps Asda are using a third party to fit them (Halfords?). It looked like a good place to start a tyre purchase.

Perhaps someone who has used Asda can explain how it works.


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## MikeJhn (16 Jun 2021)

Plus one for Black Circle, on the site you can specify from their lists the tyre fitting company local to you and they deliver the tyres too them, after having this done at my local fitters, they gave me their private number and said ring this in the future and we will match any price you get on the internet, so may be worth talking to you local fitter, mind you this was after six new tyres in one year, I live on a flint strewn lane.


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## CornishWoodworker (16 Jun 2021)

I never buy cars with low profile tyres as its easier to get rim damage, also normal profiles give an extra bit of suspension.
I always replace in pairs.
Usually buy tyres with a lower dB rating, over longevity.


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## flying haggis (16 Jun 2021)

i always use tyre shopper when i need tyres








Cheap Car Tyres Online, FREE Tyre Fitting across the UK | Tyre Shopper


Up to 45% off quality tyres. Tyre Shopper offers a Guaranteed Price Promise to be cheaper than anyone. FREE fitting or low cost mobile fitting across the UK.




www.tyre-shopper.co.uk




buy onlne and then national tyres does the fitting. even ringing national tyres direct ends up dearer!

last puncture i got was literally on the limit as to how close to the sidewall is supposed to be yes/no for repair, he did repair it so £20 rather than £200 for a new tyre!


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## chris.gid (16 Jun 2021)

Im surprised you managed to find any choice of tyres for an i3, i thought there is only 1 brand that makes the i3 size (they're like bicycle tyres) and they just offer an all season and winter version.


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## johnbs (16 Jun 2021)

i3 tyres are unusual in both size and specification. Obviously designed with minimal roll-resistance, so tread-depth is not great, and they are *not *run-flat. There are two principle manufacturers to my knowledge. 
The National Tyres website summarises the rules on puncture repair quite nicely: basically only in the central 3/4 of the tread. 








Tyre Repairs and Tyre Punctures - What You Need to Know | National


Book your Tyre Punchure Repairs at National. Skilled, experienced and certified tyre technicians carry out tyre puncture repair and maintenance services. Book online.




www.national.co.uk




John


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## johnbs (16 Jun 2021)

Postscript: we had a side-wall puncture in an i3 tyre, which was discovered when at home & parked on the drive. I needed to get the car 3 miles to the local garage. I remembered that superglue can be used to successfully repair broken neoprene drive belts on tape-players etc, so I cleaned the puncture area and injected some glue into the "wound", then applied a bicycle patch on the outside. After an hour I re-inflated to a modest pressure and checked that it held, then drove gently to the garage. It was still 100% when they removed the tyre. Could be a solution to get you home in an emergency.


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## artie (16 Jun 2021)

stuart little said:


> Fitting tubes to tubeless tyres is a NO - N0 ,in fact as far as I know, against the law.


Could you tell us the pertinent legislation? or even a valid reason why?


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## shed9 (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Could you tell us the pertinent legislation? or even a valid reason why?


I'm not sure it's illegal as such, not advised but not illegal to my knowledge. That said, I'm aware of MOT stations failing some vehicles because of it, IIRC there was a thread on a Landy forum some time back where this had happened and the vehicle owner demanded to see the legislation which never materialised through the garage who failed it. 

I suspect however that this may possibly be an EU directive which may impact UK legislation - it's just finding that link.


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## Jonm (16 Jun 2021)

shed9 said:


> I'm not sure it's illegal as such, not advised but not illegal to my knowledge. That said, I'm aware of MOT stations failing some vehicles because of it, IIRC there was a thread on a Landy forum some time back where this had happened and the vehicle owner demanded to see the legislation which never materialised through the garage who failed it.
> 
> I suspect however that this may possibly be an EU directive which may impact UK legislation - it's just finding that link.


If “the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person” then it is illegal. It is in F2 40A





__





Road Traffic Act 1988


An Act to consolidate certain enactments relating to road traffic with amendments to give effect to recommendations of the Law Commission and the Scottish Law Commission.




www.legislation.gov.uk





The law is not going to specifically say it is illegal to put an inner tube in a tubeless tyre, far too specific.


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## Sandyn (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> Could you tell us the pertinent legislation? or even a valid reason why?


Tubeless tyres have not been designed for use with a tube. Manufacturers testing has not been done on this combination. I don't believe there will be a relevant standard to test against, so whilst it may work fine. It has not been proven safe for road use.


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## artie (16 Jun 2021)

Sandyn said:


> Tubeless tyres have not been designed for use with a tube. Manufacturers testing has not been done on this combination.


How do you know?


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Jun 2021)

It's a reasonable assumption - it wouldn't make economic sense for them to do so, unless it proved tubes to be unsuitable ............ which is what is said now.


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## Inspector (16 Jun 2021)

With cars here having mandated tire pressure warning systems you can't use an inner tube anyway. Don't your cars have the same? Or are we the only ones stuck with them?

Pete


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## artie (16 Jun 2021)

Inspector said:


> With cars here having mandated tire pressure warning systems you can't use an inner tube anyway.
> 
> Pete


No we don't have anything that daft , yet. 
How does that work. If you have a '57 chevy do you have to spoil it by fitting new wheels and tyres?


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## Ozi (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> No we don't have anything that daft , yet.
> How does that work. If you have a '57 chevy do you have to spoil it by fitting new wheels and tyres?


We do on all new registrations and have had for ten years, that's not new cars but new models, it's not that daft either a high proportion of cars without are running on underinflated tyres and with modern suspension it's not easy to feel when thats the case. It wastes fuel wears out tyres and increases stopping distances, why would you not want an automated warning?


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## Jonm (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> How do you know?


I appreciate that it used to be common to “repair” a puncture in a tubeless tyre by inserting a tube. Things are different now, both technically and legally.

If someone decides to put an inner tube in a tyre/wheel designed to be tubeless then it is up to that person to prove the modification is safe. Unless that person is an expert in the field, it is a case of contacting the wheel, tyre and inner tube manufacturers, with full details of the components, vehicle and pressures it will be run at. I doubt that anyone would receive written approval from them all.

Legally (referring to my post above) the emphasis is on the user, it states “_uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—............ the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person_”

Personally I would not do it, other than as a “get you home” low speed short distance temporary repair, with it on a rear wheel. Imagine doing an emergency stop from 70 mph and a front tyre blows.


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## Inspector (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> No we don't have anything that daft , yet.
> How does that work. If you have a '57 chevy do you have to spoil it by fitting new wheels and tyres?


The TPMS (Tire Pressure Monitoring System) sensors mount in the wheel rim in place of the regular valve stem, what shows is a slightly different looking stem. The sensor that reads them is out of sight and I displays in the instrument cluster. There are aftermarket systems you can add to an older car should you like. Most people restoring '57 Chevy the vehicles are replacing the drum brakes for disc so doing it at the same time is no big deal and could protect the investment of an expensive restoration. There are very few cars restored to exact factory new condition these days. My only real gripe with TPMSs is most of the car manufactures here require an external reader to reprogram the system to recognize the position of the wheels when you rotate the tires or switch out the summer tires for winter tires on extra rims and guess what! They charge you every time they do so.  At least the wife's new Audi lets you do it by selecting a couple buttons to store the new info.

One thing to consider when putting an inner tube in a tubeless tire is the heat dissipation characteristics may different with what amounts to thicker rubber in the assembly. How much it would impact that tire could only be answered by the engineers in a tire plant. 

Pete


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## Sandyn (16 Jun 2021)

artie said:


> How do you know?



ISO 10191 . Passenger car tyres — Verifying tyre capabilities — Laboratory test methods. 
This standard applies to all tyres used on passenger cars. There are specific tests for tubeless tyres, but no tests specified for the use of tubes in tubeless tyres. 

Tubeless tyres are not designed to use with a tube. They also don't test tyres filled with expanding foam, but I'm sure someone somewhere has used that on a road vehicle. 

There are circumstances where you might fit a tube. Avon tyres do have recommendations for fitting tubes to tubeless tyres, but it talks about 'appropriate use' and seeking professional advice. I don't think fitting a tube with a tubeless wheel/tyre is appropriate use. It also says tubes should never be used to repair a puncture in a tubeless tyre. 

An interesting bit I found:-
" When a tubeless tyre is punctured, the penetrating object is gripped by the inner liner (the built-in tube) and thus air loss through the penetration will be gradual. By contrast, when a tube type or a tubeless tyre fitted with a tube is punctured, once the tube is penetrated, air loss will normally be sudden. In this case, air will rapidly escape through the valve hole in the wheel and between the tyre beads and the wheel which, with a tube fitted, no longer provides a hermetic seal. Sudden pressure loss in a tyre can result in the bead dislodging and a loss of vehicle control. "

I suppose a similar argument exists for the use of after market tyre sealant in a passenger car. Is that 'legal'?


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## sometimewoodworker (17 Jun 2021)

Jameshow said:


> You perhaps get more miles out of top draw tyres


Very unlikely. The more expensive tyres usually last a shorter time on the vehicle as they typically have better grip so softer rubber so shorter life.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Jun 2021)

Sandyn said:


> I suppose a similar argument exists for the use of after market tyre sealant in a passenger car. Is that 'legal'?



Iirc our local large (independent) tyre supplier won't fix punctures on tyres that have had sealants used in them.


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## Just4Fun (17 Jun 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Iirc our local large (independent) tyre supplier won't fix punctures on tyres that have had sealants used in them.


A friend used tyre sealant to temporarily repair a puncture on a nearly new tyre. He took it to a tyre shop and they did repair the puncture but the tyre was scrapped anyway because it proved impossible to re-balance it. Even after cleaning out the remains of the sealant as thoroughly as they could the tyre was unusable. Maybe that is why tyre companies don't want to repair tyres that have been treated with sealant.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Jun 2021)

Quite possibly.


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## D_W (17 Jun 2021)

see_sam_saw said:


> I agree with this approach.
> 
> Car manufacturers don't want their products flying off the road and therefore we can presume they tell us which tyre keeps our car (and all its integrated systems) functioning optimally.
> 
> Whether or not a plug is a good idea depends entirely on how you use the car. I say: heavy loads and/or high speeds, replace the tyre (or tyres). I am not interested in discovering the service limit of a tyre plug on a motorway.



Commercial tires are heavily repaired here. I recall an older OTR mechanic saying that a good driver could get a million miles out of a set of tires on a semi (not sure if that includes steering tires).


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## D_W (17 Jun 2021)

Just4Fun said:


> A friend used tyre sealant to temporarily repair a puncture on a nearly new tyre. He took it to a tyre shop and they did repair the puncture but the tyre was scrapped anyway because it proved impossible to re-balance it. Even after cleaning out the remains of the sealant as thoroughly as they could the tyre was unusable. Maybe that is why tyre companies don't want to repair tyres that have been treated with sealant.



Anyone capable of changing a tire can manage to install the type of plugs they sell here. They're generally about $10 for 5 along with the cleanout/install tool. Their disclaimer notwithstanding, I've never had one fail during the remaining life of a tire. 

Not sure what a commercial truck shop does on really heavy tires.


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## Jameshow (17 Jun 2021)

You can repair tyres with a plug. I cannot see how they would come out as they have a large flange on the inside. 

Cheers James


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## D_W (17 Jun 2021)

I believe those are referred to as plug patches here. The plugs are a snake of really soft compound with an adhesive. Most of the loop goes into the tire and stays inside and the excess folded amount is cut off on the outside. If they started to work their way out, they'd stick out of the tire, but I've not seen any of that.

Plug patches require amounting, but aren't horribly expensive (about $30).


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## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> They don't make them all the same because then you would all have to buy tyres rated for high speeds, which are more expensive. For example my 1988 500se Mercedes has a top speed electronically limited to 155mph. The specified tyres are rated for that speed, and very expensive. Since I don't intend to ever drive it at anything like that speed, I have fitted tyres rated up to I think 120mph, much cheaper.


Technically speaking you only need an L rated tyre in the UK which is good for a sustained speed of 75mph, ie exceeds the max speed limit on a motorway, but given the 10% allowance on speeding then use N rated that will be ok for 87 mph. The issue is that in the UK, quote " You can invalidate your car insurance by fitting new tyres that have a lower speed rating than the manufacturer’s original fit" so this means you have to fit expensive tyres that you will not require so another rip off.


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## Just4Fun (18 Jun 2021)

D_W said:


> Anyone capable of changing a tire can manage to install the type of plugs they sell here. They're generally about $10 for 5 along with the cleanout/install tool. Their disclaimer notwithstanding, I've never had one fail during the remaining life of a tire.


This comment puzzled me because it didn't seem related to my post which you quoted. Then I read this ...


D_W said:


> I believe those are referred to as plug patches here. The plugs are a snake of really soft compound with an adhesive.


So I think we are talking abount different things. The sealant my friend used was the stuff that comes in a sort of aerosol can that you inject into the tyre via the air valve. It forms a sort of mousse all around the inside of the tyre, sealing the puncture and coating everything else, creating a real mess. This is, I believe, only intended to be a temporary, get you moving, fix. Quite different to the plugs you mention, which I don't recall ever seeing on retail sale here.


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## whatknot (18 Jun 2021)

Other way around, the cheaper tyres are made of softer compound and therefore do not last as long




sometimewoodworker said:


> Very unlikely. The more expensive tyres usually last a shorter time on the vehicle as they typically have better grip so softer rubber so shorter life.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Jun 2021)

At least with nearly all cars you have the choice of manufacturers - for my bike I had to buy Bridgestones or ........... Bridgestones - they were the only manufacturers who made the necessary sizes.


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## Fergie 307 (18 Jun 2021)

I think it was BMW who used to always supply a repair kit of plugs, glue and the fitting tool with their bikes.


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## MarkAW (18 Jun 2021)

JBaz said:


> I suspect that they all use the same back-end with just the user interface bespoked to their brand.


It's a thing known as white labelling. They are all the same company, but different 'brands' or trading names. Sometimes often the same system with the name and colours changed


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Jun 2021)

Many moons ago I commented to a friend that I'd noticed a set of points for my Volvo was £2.45 and the same set (identical serial number) for my BMW bike was £3.35. He said pity you didn't get then for a Volkswagen, they 're the same points and they're 85p.


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## D_W (19 Jun 2021)

Just4Fun said:


> This comment puzzled me because it didn't seem related to my post which you quoted. Then I read this ...
> So I think we are talking abount different things. The sealant my friend used was the stuff that comes in a sort of aerosol can that you inject into the tyre via the air valve. It forms a sort of mousse all around the inside of the tyre, sealing the puncture and coating everything else, creating a real mess. This is, I believe, only intended to be a temporary, get you moving, fix. Quite different to the plugs you mention, which I don't recall ever seeing on retail sale here.



My apologies - I may have visited, started a post and come back and finished it with a dud reference later. 

The tire goo is the same here - it creates a mess inside the wheel and tire and I've never used it because of that (it makes sense to someone who may not understand what's going on and what happens then when the tire is replaced). Not sure how much the tire goos can seal, but I love the plugs (even though they're suddenly not considered adequate here now that plug patch is available instead of just plug. 

I recall mentioning the plugs to my dad (they used to be $2 for a kit, but auto parts places now sell nothing for $2 - so you're forced to get one or two for $7 or 5 at a time for $10 - I do the latter) as a day or two in, I didn't feel the need to go have the plug replaced with a plug patch and he more or less said "we didn't have anything but plugs when I was a kid and thus they were considered perfectly fine. 

He grew up on a farm, and if you're on a farm, there's always something going through tires - even things like locust thorns. He couldn't recall a plug ever failing. Perhaps a "real tire man" on here could comment, but I talked to an older tire guy who said something about plug patches not necessarily being better as he'd suggested that he'd seen them relegated to plug only after the patch inside the tire lost adhesion. Growing up in a small town, I sometimes wait for a second opinion of the same thing as "pro" doesn't mean someone is particularly careful about their judgements or advice.


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## Boringgeoff (20 Jun 2021)

In the early 70's I drove a low-loader transporting bull dozers etc in a very hot Pilbara Region (google it) of WA and got on average three punctures a day running tubed tyres. You couldn't handle them with bare hands they were that hot. I got so good at it I could swap a wheel out on the side of the road in nine minutes.
In 1980 I bought my own truck delivering concrete in the same region. This truck was running tubed tyres, the biggest problem was you'd pick up nails, screws on building sites which may not penetrate the tube but then you'd do a run of a enough miles to heat the tyres up and they'd start going off. As has been previously mentioned, when a tube punctures the tyre goes flat immediately. This is not as disasterous as it sounds (unless its a steerer) because a dual wheel has its companion to support it though I have been in the situation where one punctures, you don't notice, and its mate goes KABLOOEY!! from overwork. That would take more than nine minutes to rectify. 
In the 90's we were making a good quid so we fitted the truck with tubeless rims and tyres (10 rims + tyres = $$$) instant happiness, my rate of punctures went down by 80%. What has to be borne in mind is that tyre technology had advanced massively in the years from the early 70's to the mid 90's and is still advancing. When we fitted the tubeless rims I also bought a plugging kit. 
Some where along the line I became aware of advice that plugs were only a short term resolution and that the plugged tyre should have a internal flanged plug inserted in an authourised tyre shop ASAP. As far as I can recall I never had that done and believe it was an a#%e covering statement.

Cheers,
Geoff.


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