# Victorian chair steps - WIP



## AndyT (12 Feb 2012)

It's time I made something again. I don't have the excuse that it's too cold - my workshop is in the basement, and although it's very well ventilated (to make sure there is plenty of air for the gas boiler) it stays at around 15° which suits me fine.

I have decided to make a chair which converts into a pair of steps. It's not an original idea - there was one on this threadquite recently. I want to use a slightly older design, from a reprint of Paul Hasluck's 1903 Handyman's Book.

This is what it should look like:












I have some suitable wood, which used to be the sides of a small (broken) Victorian cupboard that some neighbours were throwing out. I thought that inch thick boards 15" x 60" were too good to throw away:






I'm not sure what wood it is - maybe walnut? It's quite soft, and does not have very interesting grain, but works beautifully.

I spent quite a long time making a full-size drawing, on a piece of lining paper, so as to understand the construction properly and work out the sizes of everything. I then wrote out a cutting list and planned how to get all the bits out of my two boards. On paper, there was enough wood.

Planning it out for real, there were a few flaws to be worked around - a knot, screw holes for hinges, and a join along one of the boards, but there was still just enough.











A little bit of sawing later, and I had a pile of bits.






I thought I would start with the long back legs. Disaster!

I had accurately laid out and cut all the parts that were on my cutting list - but these should have been 36" long. On my list they were 32" - and that's what I have. There is no sensible way I can lengthen the main structural piece - and indeed, not enough wood now. I shall just have to make some more, out of some other wood. It won't quite match, but maybe I can find something close enough.

There will now be a pause in this project while I try to cheer myself up, and ask if there is any suitable advice about how many times to measure before cutting or anything like that!


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## condeesteso (12 Feb 2012)

Andy - there are a few things I like here. The steps design, that has a lot of potential, the 15 degrees, and the wood. If I get my shop up to 8 I'm chuffed and quite comfortable. I have a strong suspicion the wood is 'satin walnut' which appears often on later Victorian pieces. It's very nice, close to walnut colour (maybe a tads lighter) and easy to work whilst being well-behaved. Interestingly it isn't walnut at all, but Liquid Ambar, native mid-states North America. It may have got its informal name by being a lower cost substitute, but it's very nice in its own right.
Let's see progress, and I promise pics of a fluted leg soon as it warms a little.

p.s. once you get a finish on it it'll look even better, but yes, it doesn't exhibit much grain variation.


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## kirkpoore1 (13 Feb 2012)

That looks like a very cool project. Sorry to hear about the misreading of the plan. I look forward to seeing how it works out, and hearing how sturdy it is.

Kirk


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## Mike Saville (13 Feb 2012)

Will follow this one with interest. Are you following the victorian design in terms of moulding etc or will you do something more contemporary?


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## AndyT (13 Feb 2012)

Thanks for the interest and kind words.
Douglas, I think you're right about the wood - Satin Walnut fits the bill. 

I'm pleased to say that my pile of salvaged wood has yielded a piece of something which is just about big enough to cut two new back legs which will at least match each other. 

I will try and make this as close to what is in the book as I can, which means turned front legs - one chance at getting them right and matching!

Incidentally, I found a chair which is very close to this design in many of its details (except that its legs are not turned) at an on-line antique store:





which shows me what to aim at!


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## alex8_en (18 Feb 2012)

Hi andy,
I don't think you need to dispare just yet, you can do what I being done on the stairs all the time-continue your leg with another piece with a dowel especially if you are turning it its a perfect way to hide a difference in the grain


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## AndyT (18 Feb 2012)

Ok, here's a quick update on progress so far.

This is the alternative wood for the long back legs where I cut the first wood too short. They are square, not turned, so the dowel trick wouldn't work for these, but thanks for the tip. I'll need to cut it very carefully, but there's just enough. It's sapele I think - it used to be a bit of a neighbour's conservatory. (I do like re-using old wood!) 
Luckily there is a bit of a kink in the grain just where I need it.







This is how it's supposed to work when you use a full-size drawing - you lay the wood out on it and mark directly.
Here I'm locating a mortice in a back leg which I'll cut while it's still all square:






Before:






After:






And then to the bandsaw to cut off the front edges:






and then separate a leg:






That old 70s Burgess bandsaw is perfectly adequate for this sort of cut, which just needs a bit of planing to clean it up:






I was wondering about how to plane up to the angle, but it seemed to be ok with just slewing the plane around. I used a scraper to get the last little bit smooth.
I cut the similar mortice on the second leg while the underside was still square - much easier.

The next few hours were mostly spent planing some of the smaller pieces to size. This satin walnut is a real treat to work with - absolutely clear, very mild and easy. I was getting full width full length shavings almost all the time, as you can see:






resulting in 






This was followed by some careful marking of angles:






On a job like this it is really useful to have more than one bevel gauge, so you can handle the pieces in any order without having to reset a tool. 

In a similar way, I like to use a lot of marking gauges, and have one for each repeated dimension on a project. To keep track, I just put a bit of masking tape on the stem and make a note:






I decided to put a little bead along the bottom of the seat rails. This is always hardest at the ends of the piece, where you lose the effect of a fence, so I did the beading before cutting the tenon shoulders off. I used an old Stanley 66 beader, with a Veritas cutter in it. (The fence is a home-made replacement.)






This is about as far as I've got so far, with the first two slanted mortice and tenon joints done. They do seem to be quite a lot harder than square ones! 






Looking at how much more there is to do, I realise this project may take quite a while, as I will only be doing anything major at the weekends, but I'll keep the w-i-p pics going as much as I can.


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## Brian Henry (18 Feb 2012)

Wow, very nice aspirations, hope the rest goes well!


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## condeesteso (20 Feb 2012)

Excellent Andy - the step chair design is wondeful. Trying to look at the work progress but get distracted by the tools!! Jim has a Burgess 3 wheeler and he rates it very highly too. By the way, I really like the shaped square section legs on the pic of chair above...maybe?


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## AndyT (20 Feb 2012)

condeesteso":3ldiw4t4 said:


> Excellent Andy - the step chair design is wondeful. Trying to look at the work progress but get distracted by the tools!! Jim has a Burgess 3 wheeler and he rates it very highly too. By the way, I really like the shaped square section legs on the pic of chair above...maybe?



Just don't look at my bench!

I was planning to turn the front legs - like the design in the book - and to see if I can manage to make a pair that resemble each other! I've already glued up two 1 1/2" squares in readiness. But I like those square, decorated legs on the antique one too, and am a bit tempted. But How would they have been made? I've seen a description somewhere of using an overhead router passing side to side across a batch of legs somewhere - not a hand technique - but does anyone have any more useful ideas?


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## condeesteso (20 Feb 2012)

Re the square section legs my guess (and seen in Pop Wood ages ago) would be to leave full section square stock each end as support, and maybe also leave full section in the middle too, removing that last. Then an mdf template and your Burgess.
A 2-point guide is clamped to the left of blade so points go around the blade and touch the template on the cut line (just to waste of it). The template is fixed on top of the stock hence I suspect leaving a centre section until last would be helpful.
(Says he who has yet to attack the fluted leg elsewhere  )
I just thought they looked very nice within that overall design, but it is your chair/step of course!


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## AndyT (26 Feb 2012)

Ok, another weekend, and I've been thinking about legs!

I'd planned to have turned front legs, as in the original design, but quite like the square section tapered ones in the antique shop. Without benefit of Harry Hill, how do I decide which is best?

I thought I'd do an experiment. This project is feeling quite taxing, and my woodturning is pretty rudimentary. Although I'm ok on free-form handles and suchlike, I've no track record at all on making sets of things, or working to a definite dimension. So, I found a bit of soft-ish hardwood, planed it down square and marked it out from my plan. It's slightly skinnier than the 1 1/2" I'll be using, but not much.

Some time later, this is as far as I got: (proper turners, look away now!)






I'm not pleased with it, and I think it's pretty obvious why. Time for a rehearsal of the other style.

I drew the shape in on my full-sized drawing, imitating the photos of the antique chair as closely as I could, transferred marks to the wood and knifed in all round:






It keeps two sections full-sized and square, which should help a lot to make it even. At this staeg the design turns into a series of points where I need a saw cut, either 1/8" or 1/4" deep. Not too challenging - look, no hands!






For the main tapers, a bit of chiselling at the end enables me to get the bandsaw blade in to get the bulk off:






so then it's a question of getting the surface smooth. Not so easy to plane it, with the ends in place. I got the best results with careful chiselling:






This trial piece is redwood, which is much less forgiving than the satin walnut will be. The design has some small mouldings, so I experimented on these using some newly bought Japanese rasps, and some old gouges:











The rasps work well, but the gouges are best. The real thing will be tidier, I promise.











So that's about as far as it goes this weekend - it's been too sunny and warm to stay indoors!

Obviously, the tapered legs win, as I have some chance of making them without giving up in disgust. I'll keep you posted, but progress _will_ be slow!


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## condeesteso (27 Feb 2012)

Very nice legs indeed Andy (the chair) - I'm sorry you had probs with the turned ones, but pleased too #-o . These are going to look great!!


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## Dodge (27 Feb 2012)

yes looking very nice - keep up the good work!


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## AndyT (11 Mar 2012)

A quick update on a slow project...

I've nearly made the two proper legs now. The procedure was pretty much the same as the rehearsal. Lots of stopping cuts, either a quarter or an eighth of an inch deep:






Chisel out the waste and level off to required depth:






Saw out the long tapers on the bandsaw (two opposite sides, then mark and saw the others) and the short tapers by hand (like cutting tenons). Smooth the flat surfaces with paring chisels and a cabinet scraper. 






Carve the mouldings with gouges and chisels. Result so far:











And for anyone just here for the tool spotting, here are two totally gratuitous shots of the tools used this afternoon, including one that I bought new (shock!):











That's all for now - to be continued.


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## condeesteso (12 Mar 2012)

Outstanding. Very crisp mouldings, all with hand tools too. I am certain this is going to look very good. The small router plane looks handy, a record I imagine... which one?


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## AndyT (12 Mar 2012)

condeesteso":1f13z6ia said:


> The small router plane looks handy, a record I imagine... which one?



It's the Stanley 271 - ideal for this sort of job. 

Thanks for the compliments - they will help me make the effort to finish it - it's feeling a bit daunting at the moment!


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## AndyT (17 Mar 2012)

A bit of an update - though there's not much to report.

I've been thinking about how to soften the lines of this chair a bit - I don't like furniture with hard, sharp edges. One possibility for the back legs would be a simple bead, like I have done already for the rails under the seat. On this scale, I think I favour a scratch stock rather than a moulding plane. This is my scratch stock - made for me by a friend.






You can use either end of the fence - square or round, and the end has a saw cut in it so you can bury the edge of the cutter. 






Another detail is that the underside of the crosspiece is a double bevel, not flat. This lets you adjust the angle and work pushing or pulling. In that respect the simple user-made tool is better than something like the Stanley 66 which will only work in one direction at one angle.

On an offcut of the leg, I could make a nice bead like this:






but that leaves the problem of what to do at the top of the legs. I can bevel the top off towards the back, and the scratch will still work ok through the end grain, but it looks wrong if I just end the bead with the back of the legs flat. I spent some time fiddling about with a few variations, and have provisionally decided to leave it very simple, just putting a small radius along all the long edges instead, front and back. 

I spent a few more hours planing components to size, which is relaxing for me but boring for anyone else, so I have not documented that in detail.

I have also been cutting mortice and tenon joints on the back slats:






which makes it possible to pretend that these miscellaneous bits will somehow fit together and make something:






but it will be some time yet before the pile of extra bits on top of the toolbox are all done!


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## condeesteso (18 Mar 2012)

Andy - I'm amazed this thread isn't attracting a lot more attention from the hand tool lot, and generally all the furniture makers here. It's a gem, honest. Scratch stocks alone are worthy of a thread (I've been guilty myself). 
The step chair is taking shape very nicely - keep the pics coming and plenty of tool info along the way. And I'll be interested in choice of finish too. Fine work indeed.


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## devonwoody (18 Mar 2012)

Nice to see some hand work and also a period piece being made. 

Just like the old days!


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## Alf (18 Mar 2012)

Dunno about anyone else, but I'm too busy playing "Spot the desirable hand tools", with a side order of "I want some of that there timber, please" for variety. But seriously, Andy, I'm enjoying it and in awe of your bravery at even tackling it. I've only now realised I've failed to actually say so. D'oh. 

Anyway, just to demonstrate I'm not solely tool and timber fixated, a passing agreement about the #66 and it's limitation on technique. It's great if you have reams and reams of straight-grained stuff to do - very comfortable to hold. But it just doesn't have the flexibility when things get a bit squirrelly. And something particularly satisfactory about a home brewed scratchstock running a bead, I think.

Oh, and what's the deal with mortising in the vice nowadays? I thought it was a no-no, but I noticed Paul Sellers was doing it in his DVD too. Don't tell me it was just a nasty rumour put about by woodworking teachers along with never putting a plane down on its sole.


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## AndyT (18 Mar 2012)

Alf":1hywarr9 said:


> Oh, and what's the deal with mortising in the vice nowadays? I thought it was a no-no, but I noticed Paul Sellers was doing it in his DVD too. Don't tell me it was just a nasty rumour put about by woodworking teachers along with never putting a plane down on its sole.



I wouldn't normally do it - but I had failed to plan ahead and had shaped the top of the back cross-piece before cutting the mortices. So it seemed the easiest option. Also,it meant I could sit down and do it!

Thanks everyone for the encouraging words. This chair is feeling considerably more complicated than stuff I've made before, and you will help me carry on!


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## Corset (18 Mar 2012)

I have to say I am really enjoying this thread. I never realised you could get that detailing on the leg with chisels. I always assumed that they were done with a moulding plane or such like. I am so ignorant!
Owen


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## AndyT (1 Apr 2012)

Ok, after a few weeks of interruptions (wonderful weather too good to waste indoors, trips out, other jobs etc) here's a tiny bit of progress on the chair steps. It's a distraction from doing the next, harder bit of construction, but I've been thinking about mouldings etc on the back. This is how it looked - all square edged and harsh:







What I've decided to do is to mould the edges on the slats, using one of my 'selection' of moulding planes. To run a little bead along the edges, I'm using this Bristol-made plane, which dates back to 1843-79 and was made less than two miles away.






One feature which is not always found is that the iron is sharpened obliquely, so the quirk is not at 90 degrees:






So, planing along the front edges of each slat produces this shape:






I'd actually got this far experimenting on offcuts, and realised that I did not have a no 8 hollow, so last weekend I popped into Bristol Design and bought a Mosely no 7 and a Preston no 8, for £3.95 and £4.00. It really is a luxury to be able to pop into a shop like that knowing that not only will they have what I need, they will charge a reasonable price for it. 

So, using the two hollows, I shaped the centre flat, to make this:






Not a brilliant photo, but you should be able to see the gentle curves.

The next step was to put a bit more shaping on the top of the back. To mark a gentle curve, I use a bendy stick with a bit of string - the string catches in a saw kerf to adjust the kerf, then you draw along the curve with a pencil.











A little bit of work with a compass plane makes the back a bit less angular. I had bought a nice old Stanley Victor no 20, and then got a simple fixed woodie in a mixed assortment of tools. Each has its strengths and weaknesses, proving how useful it is to have a choice. (Have I used that excuse before at all?)






After that I used a spokeshave to relieve the edges a bit:






This is the result so far:






which may not look much different, but feels a whole lot better.


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## gasman (1 Apr 2012)

Sorry not to have commented before - this is awesome work done with lovely hand tools and is awe-inspiring. Thanks for sharing
Mark


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## Alf (1 Apr 2012)

AndyT":17ebgmsj said:


> I'd actually got this far experimenting on offcuts, and realised that I did not have a no 8 hollow, so last weekend I popped into Bristol Design and bought a Mosely no 7 and a Preston no 8, for £3.95 and £4.00. It really is a luxury to be able to pop into a shop like that knowing that not only will they have what I need, they will charge a reasonable price for it.


A person could go right off you, Andy... :x :lol: 

Looking very nifty.


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## kevin dwyer (1 Apr 2012)

like those tapered legs, I really hard to look a few times on the original to notice they weren't turned. 

what's with the woodturning Andy ? you can tell me, I won't laugh, any more than I already have that is ....


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## condeesteso (2 Apr 2012)

Absolutely ace! - hardly a hand tool you haven't used yet? The profiles will show up nicely once a finish goes on I suspect. And a slight relief to see a cordless charger under the bench there


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## Blister (2 Apr 2012)

Wow

only just seen this thread 

Very nice work indeed =D>


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## AndyT (2 Apr 2012)

Thanks all, your encouragement is keeping this one going, but it may slow down even more - there are other things on the calendar at weekends, and a lot of planing that won't be very interesting. Kevin - the experimental leg is very rough. If it was a handle, it would become a smaller handle as I took extra layers off trying to find the nice smooth bit hiding inside, but a pair of legs have to finish at the right size, with the minimum amount of wood taken off. Also, one of the middle bit has that funny spiral effect you get when the speed is too slow and the wood a bit bendy.

I should also point out that the lathe is electric, as is the bandsaw and the table saw I did the preliminary cutting on, which is also very camera shy...


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## AndyT (8 Apr 2012)

A little update on putting right a couple of mistakes...

Here's an obvious suggestion: if you are measuring the length of a slanting piece, make sure that, when you mark the length, you look at the long side, not the short side. The last slanting leg would have been long enough, if I had marked the ends properly. I think it will be ok with this little extra bit on it though:






Also, if you need to drill holes for dowels, make sure you do them at the right end of your wood. I need dowels at the floor end, to make the join to the slanty bits. You can see here that I also have holes at the top, visible in this 'make it look a bit like a chair by standing the bits together' photo:






To make this look deliberate, I shall plug the holes. As they are countersunk, I need plugs which overlap. This much turning I can manage:
















I hope these will look a bit like something holding the tenon in place!

I've also spent some time on these fiddly little bits - a haunched oblique tenon at one end and a sliding dovetail at the other:






I've also found that these oblique tenons are quite hard to do - nothing works until all the touching surfaces meet, by which time at least one of them doesn't! It's a comfort to know that the haunches will be permanently covered up by the seat.






Loads more to do; watch this space!


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## shim20 (9 Apr 2012)

looking great, loving the hand tools work


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## condeesteso (12 Apr 2012)

A good read is this one Andy. Respect for publishing the errors... but then smoothly passing on to the haunched oblique tenon with sliding dovetail, like nothing had happened.
Beginning to look rather close... and I still very like those legs, good choice I think. All mighty fine work.


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## Benchwayze (14 Apr 2012)

Andy, 

Some of that soft timber you have looks like Parana pine (Now very scarce, new). 
I like the look of this project. Working by hand, as I know you do, gives a good feel for how things were back then. Making a reproduction piece like this, heightens that sense of contact with the past. So I hope it goes well.


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## AndyT (5 Jun 2012)

Well, nearly three months in, and nowhere near finished, but here's a little bit of an update, to prove I've not forgotten all about it. I'll miss out some of the obvious bits (lots of planing, even more staring at the drawing and wondering about things). 

I've glued up the back legs to their adjoining triangles. This is how I managed to cramp up the rather odd shape:






The big old Woden cramp comes into its own as it can work at an angle - the sort of feature that looks useful but hardly ever is. It is held down onto the bench with two wooden handscrews - an old one and one I made as a copy. The slant mortice and tenon is held together by a long cheap'n'nasty F-clamp (with a special extra triangle to make it square) while a Veritas bench dog keeps the triangle pressed into the Woden.

I've used Titebond liquid hide glue on this project, which I like a lot - especially for its panic-free long open time. 

Once glued, the tips of the triangles get sawn off square, ready to lap-dovetail a board onto them.






The dovetailing is potentially extra-tricky as the insides of these triangles are not flush - the back legs are thicker than the rest. I've decided to simplify it by taking the extra thickness off. First mark the depth and breadth of the wood to be removed:






The old gauge has its pin sharpened to a knife profile, which works well. The other device is also a marking gauge, specially good for doing very shallow lines such as for hinges. It's just a woodscrew in a scrap of wood, with its head sharpened by filing. (I read about this on Paul Sellers' blog.)

To remove the extra wood, a moving fillister works nicely:






or a big chisel is also just fine:




.

Lastly, planing off a little inaccuracy allows me a totally non-gratuitous shot of this little London pattern bullnose:






That's it for now - next time, dovetails and edge mouldings!


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## Richard T (5 Jun 2012)

re - haunches touching equally, I read something quite recently (was it on here somewhere?) about cutting them less than square - at a slightly acute angle to the tenon, to allow them to seat evenly ... would still need to be as accurate as poss. though, I guess, as this trick would seem to rely on a modicum of edge - squish. 

Watching with interest Andy - we have floor to ceiling, wall to wall book shelves in here. Could just do with a one - of - them.


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## AndyT (5 Jun 2012)

With the haunches, I'm relying on the simple method of screwing the seat over the top of them so they won't show at all!

And if you need one, how can I break it to you? - I shan't be going in for bulk production of these - and if I did, the delivery time would be unacceptably long!


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## Cheshirechappie (6 Jun 2012)

Wow - how on earth have I missed this thread? It's fascinating.

It's good to see someone making something a bit out of the ordinary, and taking on the challenge of the 'different'. Boxes and coffee tables are great, but there's only so many of them one household needs. There's also something very satisfying about stepping outside the usual run of projects, meeting the challenges and solving them. Good luck with the rest - though by the look of it, the job has gained it's own momentum, now.

By the way, could the timber be Butternut? According to Bill Lincoln's 'World Woods in Colour', it's native to North America, similar to Black Walnut but softer and lighter coloured.


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## condeesteso (6 Jun 2012)

Going very well Andy. This is a hand-tool 'fest' indeed. Re the Titebond liquid hide - there is a great deal to be said for a longer open time. There seems to have been a commercial race on for faster, and slower setting adhesives are rather uncommon. Try finding 'normal' Araldite in a local store these days... it's all 'sets in 5 minutes' stuff, which is a serious disadvantage in my opinion (which would appear to be out of fashion).
I did notice a change in the grain I thought - is this all the same stock, some recent parts look like mahogany? But I'm pretty sure the main bits are satin walnut...?


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## AndyT (6 Jun 2012)

On the timber, it's hard to be sure from descriptions and photos, but I think Satin Walnut matches in terms of being light, soft and easy to work. The pictures of Butternut that I found had a more interesting grain than this does. I will do some experiments with stain soon; I think it needs a bit of help!

I'm hoping that the wood will be strong enough - it's never far to the next joint, so I think it will be ok.

The back legs however are from something different, as I messed up the cutting list and ended up without anything long enough for them. I don't know the species - it came from a skip - but it used to be a hardwood conservatory, so it will be some mahogany-alike popular in the 70s. I had one big enough piece having already made a bed from the rest.

I agree about the glue - I have plenty of time, and some of the assembly is just a bit complicated. I used liquid hide glue on my last bookcase and was glad that I did, as some of the joints took their time being persuaded to come together!


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## AndyT (9 Jun 2012)

Ok, a bit more progress to report. As promised, the bottom/top step is lap dovetailed into the sides. Pretty standard stuff. Mark out and cut the tails:







Transfer to the pins; saw down as far as possible:






Clamp down with a couple of finest holdfasts (Thanks Richard!) and chisel out.











I still like the old blue handled Stanley chisels - I bought this one new back in the early 70s. I haven't re-handled it - but then I haven't worn out the present handle yet! (Don't worry Jim - I do have some chisels without handles and will be following your example when I get round to it.) Carry on till done, and check for a reasonable fit:






This step needs its edges bevelling to match the slant of the legs. The drawknife is quicker than anything else for this sort of job:











This is not very old - probably 1940s - by Brades of Birmingham - and keeps a lovely sharp edge.






Clean up a bit with a jack plane - to remind you of school woodwork days:






The next step is to shape one of the intermediate steps. First square the end - showing that a shooting board does not have to be anything special - this is a bit of old contiboard and a Stanley no 4 (with more plastic handles - but it performs brilliantly).






This needs a moulding on the ends and on the back. I've decided to use an ordinary ovolo, using this Mathieson plane. It's a very common plane used for making window sashes. It has the decided advantage of an extra-deep fence:











To prevent break-out when planing across end grain I clamped a piece of scrap behind the work - with the grain going along.






This shows the moulding beginning to develop






and here it is done






Repeat for the other end, and cut off the corners to fit into the housings:







And that's about it for now. There will be a bit of a pause while I carry on with the same moulding and fitting on the other steps. Then I will find out if it all fits together!


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## Cheshirechappie (9 Jun 2012)

Now that's interesting - the moulding plane looks to have a bedding angle of about 45 degrees, but still seems to cope very nicely with cutting an end-grain moulding. Would that be down to the mild nature of the wood? I seem to recall that cabinetmaker's moulding planes were often bedded rather higher - up to 60 degrees, so as to cope with harder woods, tricky grain - and end grain.


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## AndyT (9 Jun 2012)

Yes CC, you are right on both counts - common pitch, and really easy wood - the plane is nice and sharp, but would not perform like that on pine. I do have a 'selection' of moulding planes, including some at much steeper angles, and might choose a different one for the edges of the seat, where most of the time the moulding will be visible from above. I think I have just enough wood to do an experiment first, so I'll put some pictures up and see what people think.


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## Richard T (10 Jun 2012)

'selection' ....... :lol: 

This is great work Andy - I'm particularly impressed with the dovetailing right across the ends of the three pieces.

... and for the countless people who have asked me what holdfasts are used for - see above.


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## AndyT (19 Jul 2012)

More than a month since the last update and progress has not been quick - but here's a little update to prove that I am going to finish this chair!

I needed to mark the front and middle legs for housings to hold the step. This is marking the position by squaring up from the drawing:






I found that a cabinet scraper was a handy set-square to transfer marks from the paper to the edge of the wood.

I also realised that I could square across the tapered leg by bridging across the full-section parts of the legs:






If anyone else is masochistic enough to try one of these, do be sure to keep two square bits on the tapered or turned legs - even if they are extra bits that get cut off later, you need them to get the angle right. It meant that I could cut the depth of the housings square to the bench (not the surface of the wood) and so make the notch in the step with a square cut.

I cut the through housings in the usual way and then glued up the triangles. 






This picture shows how I glued up the front and front middle legs. I have used the back legs and back middle legs which are already glued to the correct angle. My objective is to make the front bits fit the back bits, so this makes more sense than building a new triangle. To stop anything sliding away, I've screwed some scrap bits onto an offcut of chipboard. Bits of thin ply prop it up level and a sash cramp bears onto an angled block at the back. This worked well and produced two glued up front leg bits.






This was disappointing; somehow, my front leg bits would not line up with the back ones. I decided that the answer was to make a front rail 1/8" longer. Fortunately I still had enough wood to do this!






and put a bead on the edge again:






There now followed a long, difficult period, spread over several days, of trying to get the step to fit into its housings. The trouble is, everything has to fit at once - notches out of the step fit into four oblique housings, the front rail fits across between the two front legs, which have to be vertical, and then I want the slanting legs to be parallel with the other ones along the whole of their length! I've never attempted anything quite so awkward before. There was lot of head scratching, fine paring and adjustment - which is always difficult if you are not quite sure which piece needs to be made smaller.

To make it more interesting, I decided not to check the angle on one of the oblique cuts:






which gave me a chance to find out about how well filling up a saw cut with a sliver of wood works:






Here it is carved down flush ready to make the correct cut: I hope that a good dark stain will hide some of this!






Anyhow, several hours later and I got to this stage:






which is significantly different from the one above and looks as if it will fit together ok.

Anyone watching very closely will have realised why the drawings in the book showed the housings in the legs as being stopped (top right hand side diagram)






I'd sort of decided that my front legs were different and forgotten that subtlety. The result is that if I put a moulding on the front edge I will be left with an unsightly gap. What's more, this piece of wood is a little bit narrow already. I think that I will have to fill up the hole in the front (ie make the through housings into stopped ones) and then plant on an extra bit of wood with the moulding on. I could make it out of the front rail if I hadn't drilled the screwholes in it!

So, looked at one way, I "only" have to finish the step edges, cut and mould the two pieces for the seat, and then assemble the thing.
Time to explore stains and finishes a bit I think. I've been watching the thread on Van Dyck crystals closely and will be doing some experiments. I already have some scraps with holes filled with glue and sawdust that I hope to make disappear!


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## Teckel (19 Jul 2012)

Well done Andy. That is excellent work you are doing there. I look forward to it being finished.


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## devonwoody (20 Jul 2012)

It is a very interesting project to watch and see your techniques of getting there.


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## bugbear (20 Jul 2012)

AndyT":3edw8bgj said:


> This step needs its edges bevelling to match the slant of the legs. The drawknife is quicker than anything else for this sort of job:



A tip (from Kirby) IIRC, is to hold the workpiece end-to-end in a sash cramp, then hold the sash cramp in the vise. Gives excellent access, and the workpiece can be rotated.

It's an improvised version of a "fiddle".

BugBear


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## condeesteso (21 Jul 2012)

Very nice dovetails indeed, and the mouldings looking great. It appears to be fairly close to finished?
The most extensive display of hand-tool work (and patience) I've seen in years - brilliant!


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## adidat (21 Jul 2012)

bugbear":ftyqrevy said:


> AndyT":ftyqrevy said:
> 
> 
> > This step needs its edges bevelling to match the slant of the legs. The drawknife is quicker than anything else for this sort of job:
> ...



But if your using this method with a router, be very careful not to catch the clamp head. DAMHIK


adidat


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## woodbloke (21 Jul 2012)

condeesteso":3fpadx23 said:


> Try finding 'normal' Araldite in a local store these days...


B&Q :wink: - Rob


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## AndyT (5 Aug 2012)

Ok, progress is slow but here's another stage - working the moulding around the seat.

First, cut to length:






mark the width, and plane parallel.






I wanted this to be an ovolo shape again - like the underside of the other steps - but a slightly different size. Also, I faniced making it a different way, using just rebate planes and a hollow. (This has been written about with great enthusiasm by Matt Bickford, who makes moulding planes in the USA and runs courses on their use.)

The first step is to define the rebates, using a cutting gauge when working across the grain:






I actually need two lines, as I shall be making a deep narrow rebate and a shallow wide one. I also marked the depth of the deep one, on the edges of the wood.

Here I am starting to cut the deep rebate - 1/8" wide, 1/2" deep - using a moving fillister plane:











The skew blade makes these lovely curly shavings, even when working across the grain:






To cut the broad shallow rebate, I did have a go with my old East German "Universal-Hobel" which worked ok, but needed a bit more push than in this posed shot:






However, I finished them off with a Faithfull 778 copy which I forgot to take any pictures of. This got me to this stage:






- a bit whiskery, but that will clean up later.

This shot shows how different the shavings look when taking a narrow rebate along the grain - and are further proof of the usefulness of Richard's holdfasts:






Here is a slightly later stage showing the corner, and also the deep score line from the cross-grain nicker - I should be able to make this disappear, but I should have withdrawn the nicker sooner.






Actually, this will be one of the corners that get cut off, so the seat can fit between the back legs.

The next step is to chamfer the long arrises:






for which I used an un-named skew rebate plane - this has the distinction of being the first wooden plane I ever bought, and is still in frequent use. A previous owner has extended its life with a new boxwood sole.

I realised that the mouldings need to line up on the back and front parts of the seat, so I clamped them up together so I could plane through in one go and make any adjustments:






My home-made shoulder plane was useful for this:






So, having got to the stage of having a long chamfer in between two rebates, the next step was to round over the arrises using a hollow - in this case a number 8 by Preston. 











It takes only a few strokes - occasionally working backwards to avoid breaking out the corners.

This shows the finished profile ready for sanding. I just happen to have a similar size plane without an iron which makes the ideal shaped rubber:






This is the sort of shape I was aiming at, though I will later round off the square part so as to prevent it from getting damaged:






And here are the two parts - now with their meeting edges bevelled - resting on my toolbox:






Now, I know that I could have just put an ovolo bit in an electric router (I do have one, and can use it!) but I wanted to experiment doing things the slow way, just for the fun of it. As a hobby woodworker, enjoyment is more satisfying than speed.

Nearly there now!


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## devonwoody (6 Aug 2012)

Nice work and excellent wip


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## condeesteso (7 Aug 2012)

Never a foot wrong, Andy (or leg, whatever).
So, yet more planes coming out including the 'home-made shoulder'. The very essence of that elusive British understatement.
So you angled the mating faces of the seat... that's part of the foldy feature I cannot visualise, isn't it?
Is this whole thing seriously going to go together without a single biscuit? (I mean a 'joint' Andy, not a rich tea.)


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## AndyT (8 Aug 2012)

Biscuits? A bit too modern for this job!

This picture might make the workings a little clearer. It's still just pushed together dry. Imagine a pair of hinges along the slanting joint in the seat. Then you should be able to see that the front part (with the fancy legs) stays where it is, and the bigger back part tips up and over it. The wide part of the seat rests on the narrow part and the top of the back rests on the floor. This reveals a set of four steps. (The front intermediate step is not in place in the picture - that needs a bit extra to be glued on and moulded.)






I know it looks nearly finished but it will take ages yet - and will get interrupted by weekends away, holidays etc. Just lately I seem to have been rather distracted by some surprisingly interesting Olympics coverage most evenings!

As for the shoulder plane, there was a little glut of them on here a while back. I described mine here. It's not pretty but it does work really well - every home should have one!


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## condeesteso (9 Aug 2012)

Ah yes, I can see how it works now. The legs look excellent - i still think the square section suits the overall design better than turned ones.
Took a look at the shoulder plane thread - a fine plane indeed but not for me I'm afraid, not patient enough and I'm not sure me and metal get along. Odd for someone who just got a Myford eh??


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## AndyT (27 Oct 2012)

It does seem rather a long time ago that I started making this step chair. Fact is, apart from the usual interruptions of summer, I've lost my enthusiasm for it. It's all very well making a kit of parts but the real struggle is going to be getting the bits all fitting to each other. However, it won't do itself, and it's in the way, so it's time to crack on. And you've all been so encouraging - your kind words have been a real help.

I didn't take any pictures of dull ordinary things like sanding all the bits or filling in some old nail holes and cracks with glue and sawdust, but I have spent a few hours doing them. For the sanding I used the Mirka Abranet hand sanding block attached to a vacuum cleaner which works brilliantly well, with no dust problems at all.

So, having tidied up a bit, I glued the back slats together:






On this job, as before, I'm using Titebond liquid hide glue. For fiddly things like these little stub mortices I just pour some into a foil dish and put it on with a small cheap artist's brush. So far so good. The back and the other bits fit nicely into one of the main side pieces:






After that, the other side fitted reasonably easily - I knew it would as I had put it together dry before.






The dovetails weren't so good - they needed clamping in the vice and the use of a proper hammer:






(No, that's not an action shot - I didn't want to mess about during the glue up just to take photos!)

Even after a spot of persuading there were still some gaps. I should have ignored the old advice about not test fitting dovetails to their full depth. It's disappointing, but it will be a further chance to practice 'making good' with slivers of wood. I've done some experiments on the finishing, which will be quite dark and will (I hope) help hide the many little "character features " of this piece.

Having got the whole thing together, there was time to clamp up the horizontals to make sure that those joints were properly tight:






So there it is for now. Brace yourselves for another wait before the next exciting instalment!


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## Cheshirechappie (27 Oct 2012)

I know what you mean about losing enthusiasm. Jobs seem to go one of two ways for me; either it becomes all-consuming, or once it's put down for some reason, it's very hard to pick up again. There seems no rhyme or reason to which way it goes, either.

However, it's clearly rounding the last curve into the home straight now, and looking good. One more glue-up and a bit of hinge-fitting, and Robert's your father's brother. Or mother's brother. It'll all be over by Christmas...


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## condeesteso (27 Oct 2012)

Very close now Andy, and looking really good. Keep the momentum up  
CC is right, my fluted leg chess table is suffering from having been set aside.... it seems to freeze up and needs a good kick to get it started again.

p.s. re 'character features', I sometimes call them 'handmade detailing'. No piece is complete without I feel.


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## AndyT (28 Oct 2012)

So, you wait three months for an update and two come along at once...

Bucked up by your comments, I have made a bit more progress today.

With the glue set on the main structure I could adjust the bits that I had left to sort out after assembly. That was some of the slanting edges, which need to align with the sloping legs and also the top step with the dodgy dovetails.

Clamping a strange wedge-shaped lump is quite a challenge; I have just enough room on my rather shallow bench, with various bits of wood getting in the way behind it. 






Here I am working on the slant edge of the top step - the whole thing is braced against a wooden bench stop and held down with one of Richard's excellent holdfasts.







To work on the top I could catch the back in one side of the vice and rest the middle step on a bit of scrap board - again held down with a holdfast. Before I had the holdfasts I had an assortment of improvised clamps but for something like this would probably have had to screw the board to the bench. It's the sort of bench that can have screws put in it without spoiling anything, but the holdfasts are quicker and easier.

After a pleasant planing session and another trial fit it was time to glue up the other half:






with sash cramps to hold it together, plus a lightweight bar and clamp head combination. (A simple tip when using these lighter-wight sash cramps - I use plywood pads with a little slot cut in them - the slot fits on the bar just tight enough to not fall off, but can easily move when needed.)


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## JakeS (28 Oct 2012)

It's great to see this progressing - it's been one of my favourite WIP threads from my time on the forum, what with all the details and no glossing over of mistakes and so on, and so far, it's looking pretty good! I can totally understand the loss of momentum, though - much like the other guys who've commented, I have the same thing... curiously the only projects I've not had that problem with are the ones my girlfriend instigated. Hmm.... ;-)



AndyT":31cj7mxd said:


> A simple tip when using these lighter-wight sash cramps - I use plywood pads with a little slot cut in them - the slot fits on the bar just tight enough to not fall off, but can easily move when needed.



Not a bad idea at all! I use little blocks of softwood with double-sided tape stuck to them for much the same thing - they'll stick to the face of the clamp well enough to stay in place, but they're easy to remove if necessary. The tape does do a good job of picking up all kinds of dust and fluff and needs to be replaced periodically, though.


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## morfa (31 Oct 2012)

Looks lovely I have to say. Really enjoyed reading it. Can't wait to see the finished piece.


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## AndyT (31 Oct 2012)

Thanks again for the kind comments. 

With two half-chairs glued up, and the seats screwed on, it's nearly time to fit the hinges. 
One of the hardest things with this build has been getting these strange triangle shapes to line up right with each other. With the seat parts fitted it's clear that although one end fits:







the other end need a quick adjustment with the plane to bring it into line:






With that done, I could stand the chair up and mark for the hinges.






I'm concerned that the hinging will need to be spot-on to let the seats meet nicely in both closed and opened positions, but there's no alternative to getting on with it.

I marked around the hinges with a sharp knife, making sure that they were in line with the seat and with the ends of the frame. You have to let the barrel of the hinges stick up above the seat, and hope that nobody's bottom is sensitive enough to notice.

Again, working on these big wedge shaped lumps is awkward, but I managed to clamp them down. Here I have put a bit of scrap wood in the vice, and the chair is clamped onto it, with another piece to clear the under-seat rail. I find the old-style handscrews really useful for this sort of job. I certainly did not want anything slipping while I was cutting out for the hinges.

Fitting the hinges is pretty standard work, and something I quite like doing. I can't imagine using a power router on something like this, especially with the odd angles.

The sharp-screw-in-a-block-of-wood gauge is ideal for marking the depth; it needs to be half the barrel thickness, not just the leaf thickness:






I don't think I'm doing anything unusual or original here, but this is what works for me. First cut some safety lines away from the final edges, then cut a series of stop cuts across the grain. I'm being very careful here and stopping well short of the line.






Slice those bits off by cutting across the 'feathers:' 






Pare down towards the line, leaving a bevel:






Then pare towards the back of the hinge with horizontal cuts. The bevel lets the chisel start cutting without needing to change the angle of attack. The last cut is with the chisel in the marked line.

Clean out the ends:






and then the back:






to leave a tidy cut-out:






which just fits the hinge nice and snug:







The perfect tool to mark for the screws is a Horace Britton multi-tool with a little taper square awl:






I am - of course - using steel screws initially while I try all this out. The brass screws are for final assembly only.

With one part fitted, I checked the alignment on the other half and made some slight tweaks to make sure the hinges were in line. This is the other half some time later with the hinges ready for screws:







Here is the effect so far, showing the thing itself in the closed position:






and doing its party piece:






So, it's nearly done. I 'just' need to finish off filling the various holes and inaccuracies, apply my chosen stain to make it all matching dark brown and put some finish on it. Don't hold your breath, but it might be all over by Christmas!


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## devonwoody (31 Oct 2012)

I went and had a look at the starting date. :wink:


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## mailee (31 Oct 2012)

Excellent project and WIP. Such craftsmanship and patience.


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## AndyT (31 Oct 2012)

I don't go as fast as you Mailee!


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## condeesteso (31 Oct 2012)

Andy, I thought we all agreed finish by Christmas... you are in danger of being early  Or is this actually your SS??
Very nicely cut hinge mortices, I would never dream of getting a router out for that either. But the depth gauge is very neat - but did you go half the barrel thickness less a little (clearance at mating surfaces)?
I recognise that awl also - nice to see that you use all the vintage tools.
Waiting now to see choice of finish and results... fine work indeed.


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## No skills (1 Nov 2012)

Lovely piece =D> , obviously its a bit heavier than a regular chair but would you say its heavier to the point where you wouldnt use it much?


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## AndyT (1 Nov 2012)

No skills":1bco5ylo said:



> Lovely piece =D> , obviously its a bit heavier than a regular chair but would you say its heavier to the point where you wouldnt use it much?



I'll get back to you on that when it's finished and in use. I do worry a bit that it's going to be more awkward to move around than the ordinary chair it will replace, in what is already rather a crowded room. We'll see!


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## No skills (1 Nov 2012)

Fair enough. I sort of see it in use in a small libary somewhere, georgian house with its own book room sort of thing.


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## AndyT (2 Nov 2012)

I've started on the finishing.

The first step doesn't have any photos, but I think everyone knows what sanding looks like! I did some. And some more. This thing is full of faces and edges and they all need attention. I also smoothed off the mouldings on the legs and steps.

That filled a couple of hours.

For the finish, I've decided on potassium permanganate, which is a traditional stain for mahogany, still available on ebay. It's a vivid purple colour, but works by oxidising the wood, turning it brown. Instructions in old books seem uniformly vague, so I did some experiments on offcuts. I had no idea how much I would need, and did not want to run out part way through. In the end, I made up a concentrated stock solution of about a tablespoon in about a quarter pint of water. I then diluted this for use 1:1 with water.






I didn't interrupt the flow to take any action photos, but here is how it works on an offcut. This is 'before' on a piece which already has some on, alongside some vandyke crystals which I decided against this time:






When first brushed on, you can see the purple colour:






but three minutes later it has turned brown:






Ok, demo out of the way and on to the real thing. Part one:






Part two, the seat:






Part three:






leading, two and a bit hours later, to a place to stop:






I'm not a chemist but I think this stuff needs some care in use, so I did wear gloves when putting it on. By the end of the session the sponge pad brush was starting to disintegrate and so was the fibre bristle brush I used for the details.

And for future reference, I now know that one step chair needs about three quarters of a jam jar full - exactly the amount I made up!

When it has all dried off properly I will see if the colour needs any more effort to match it to the same shade; after that I shall be putting on some hard wax oil. Nearly there!


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Nov 2012)

Pot permanganate - I used to use it for rampant athletes foot, and I looked as if I were wearing purple/brown socks for a about a week!


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## condeesteso (2 Nov 2012)

Andy, this just gets better - the trad colouring and your research for example. Like Phil I have used it on my feet but never on wood yet... a swimmer you see, and foot problems come with that.
This is really coming together - I wonder if you will give it a little 'ageing' later? The odd dent, burnish of edges etc?


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## adzeman (2 Nov 2012)

I have followed this topic since it started How can you comment on such a well recorded and skilled project as this other than remaks of awe and envy? Your staining has caused me to comment. Is it only used on mahogany? I have been making a sink base for my sons London flat. The existing built in furniture is stained mahogany which his Phillistine decorator over stained with a Ronseal Rosewood and he wants me to try and match. The timber I have used is Ash as I had some left over from a previous project (I tend to use Ash a lot) Work for sons is expected to be done free of charge. I have tried many samples and am now getting close but will the permanganate work on Ash, Love your clean mortices, I assume by hand and what is your main supply for the wood moulding planes?


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## AndyT (2 Nov 2012)

Thanks again for the nice comments!

Photos can be deceptive - I think it already has plenty of odd dings and dents! The wood is very soft and I'm sure it will quickly pick up more when we start climbing on it.

I just tried the permanganate on some ash - it does turn it a nice mid-brown. I'll post a picture when my sample has dried. 

The moulding planes are mostly from ebay - I need to sort out storage again and stop the workshop looking quite so much a dumping ground. That might mean I can make shelf space for some that are still lurking in boxes!


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## adzeman (2 Nov 2012)

Thanks Andy look forward to the pics.


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## AndyT (3 Nov 2012)

Specially for Mike - here's the potassium permanganate on some ash. Photo taken with the same settings as before. The right hand end has been done twice. It's a somewhat dead colour - as is the rest of my chair - and could perhaps do with a bit of red on it before the wax oil.


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## condeesteso (3 Nov 2012)

The PP treatment on ash looks very interesting. I am inclined to test on a few different woods - you seem to get control over degree of effect, and also it looks very natural. I am generally wary of staining, but this looks interesting. My foot supply ran out years ago so will need to source some more (it works by the way :lol: )
And Andy - the pace that step chair is going! Barocca?


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## adzeman (3 Nov 2012)

Thanks Andy the information is really interesting and I am truly grateful. I will give it a try, not on the current project as I am looking for a more reddish background. I have included some pics of one of my test samples which is close to the original. I used 3 coats of Rustins Mahogany varnish followed by 5 coats of Rustins Rosewood. I found Rustins to be a more richer colour than the Ronseal. I looked on ebay for the wooden planes and noted that most of them were being sold from Ashington West Sussex who I have bought from before. As this is not far from me and on the way to the timber yard I use I may call in next week. I am looking for a No 2 round moulding plane. Looking forward to viewing the completed chair steps in their final position. In front of a large bookase full of books perhaps or have you a library?











Not very good pics as they picked up the flash.


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## jimi43 (10 Nov 2012)

Hi Andy

Following our telephone conversation I thought it was about time I ventured into the "making things" forum for once and read your thread.

What a great time I had with all those tools in action and fantastic to see a Professor of Tools demonstrating their uses so beautifully!

I am a real fan of these quirky inventions and this one is particularly well executed...right down to the potassium permanganate staining! Hey...you missed a chance there...with the powder you had left over you can do the old trick of grinding it up and making a volcano...bit of glycerine on the top...Guy Fawkes!!! (BTW Douglas...try Lloyds Chemist for the powder).

I am intrigued by that mallet of yours...is that heart/sapwood lignum vitae or laburnum? I can't tell from this distance but suspect the former.

I was almost tempted to enter the world of making something other than tools by your thread...so good was the demonstration...but then I thought better of it and think I will just stick to what I know...it all looks far too complicated mate!  

Some wax and elbow grease now....until you are happy and can't wait to see you balancing on it! :mrgreen: 

We simply have to have a demonstration!!

Cheers mate

Jim


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## AndyT (11 Nov 2012)

Nearly there now - three coats of hard wax oil are nearly dry... assembly and demonstration pose in front of a tall bookcase are coming up really soon!

Jim, I had to check back and see which mallet you meant - I presume this one?







If so, the head is a bit of birch from a tree that used to be in our back garden and the handle at that time was holly from our neighbours' garden. However, although holly is nice and hard for a mallet head, it's no good for the shaft and this one actually broke half way through in ordinary non-furious use, so it now has a more suitable ash handle (all the way from Herefordshire). The big square one is American white oak left over from a table leg. The little white one is holly again, and the little brown one is beech, and was made at school when I was about 12.


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## AndyT (11 Nov 2012)

At last, the proof you've been waiting for. No more tools in these pictures. The finish is dry; the hinges are on - and they lined up just right. (I put a steel screw in before each brass one - a tip I learnt on this forum - and I waxed the screws as well.) I put a brass cabin hook on the side to hold the two parts together so you can pick it up and move it about. But you don't need pictures of that.

So here it is, in front of the 'problem:'






You'll see that there's an important shelf, almost out of reach:






How to get to it? - Flip the chair so it looks like this:











and climb up!

So, many thanks to all who said such nice things about it. It was a more challenging project than anything else I've made, mostly because of the odd shapes which needed to line up next to each other. Progress was slow and I made plenty of mistakes that I had to find ways of hiding. I hope now it just looks like a (somewhat quirky) chair.

I think that whatever I make next will have nice straight lines and right angles; that way it might take less than nine months to finish. But whatever it is, I'll carry on doing things the quiet way.

As for the problem of the important shelves being too high up - there is another solution to that :lol: :lol:


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## jimi43 (11 Nov 2012)

Bravo indeed Prof!! 

=D> =D> =D> 

It looks the part right there! Although I would think the least you could do was demonstrate it!!

It's nice to see that you can reach that "important shelf"...though might I suggest you move those books down a bit! :wink: 

And do I see a 3rd Edition of THE book there on the shelf...I'm up to page 55 on mine but I have a feeling the latter chapters may be designated "reference only"...they look a bit heavy going! May I ask you to confirm that the "router" book is indeed hand routers....or shame on you for populating the same shelf with a book on devils with tails!!! :mrgreen: (got to have ALF in spirit if not in person!) 8) 

Anyway...are they KEFs there I see...? Or am I losing my touch?

Great project mate...very inspirational. I just have to get such a library and I might have a go! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## devonwoody (12 Nov 2012)

Every library should have one.

Its looks accurate and fit for purpose.

Congratulations on completion and to the high standard from me.


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## adzeman (12 Nov 2012)

These are the pictures I have been looking forward to seeing in front of a fine bookcase. Well done!


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## AndyT (13 Nov 2012)

jimi43":2236uems said:


> And do I see a 3rd Edition of THE book there on the shelf...I'm up to page 55 on mine but I have a feeling the latter chapters may be designated "reference only"...they look a bit heavy going! May I ask you to confirm that the "router" book is indeed hand routers....or shame on you for populating the same shelf with a book on devils with tails!!! :mrgreen: (got to have ALF in spirit if not in person!) 8)
> 
> Anyway...are they KEFs there I see...? Or am I losing my touch?
> 
> ...



Yes, newly acquired 3rd edition, confirming yet again that there are some really nice helpful people on this forum! 
The router book is about electric ones - I do have one, and will still use it when it makes sense to. I would have bought the book at the same time as I bought the router, back when there was no YouTube and no UK Workshop to learn from. I don't think there is a book about non-electric routers... :lol: 

And yes, you're right on the speakers - 104 aBs - second hand from a neighbour. I'm not a hi-fi buff like some are on this forum, but they sound good to me. Trouble is they do take up rather a lot of space, and the room is rather crowded with them and the guitars and musical instruments and the guest sofa-bed and the ironing board and the other bookshelves not shown in the pictures...and now there's an extra chair in the way... #-o


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## No skills (13 Nov 2012)

Very very good.

Cant help thinking when I look at the front legs that you should make one of those Roorkhee chairs that Schwarz has been making, less the lathe of course


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## condeesteso (15 Nov 2012)

Very well done Andy - and quite a library you have there. This build thread has been excellent - thanks for making the effort to record it along the way.
[And yes Jim - Kefs indeed, recognise the bass unit a mile off (as Jim knows I once worked at Kef, many moons ago). And I suspect a B200 mid and T27 HF in there?]


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## billybuntus (15 Nov 2012)

Very nice work on the steps.

But its time to let go of vba 6 and office 2000 books. Its been 13 years already 

I've just upgraded to office 2007 and I'm way behind the times.


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## AndyT (16 Nov 2012)

billybuntus":3szkyrzi said:


> Very nice work on the steps.
> 
> But its time to let go of vba 6 and office 2000 books. Its been 13 years already
> 
> I've just upgraded to office 2007 and I'm way behind the times.



You didn't see the shelves before the latest clearout! :lol: 

We could discuss the progressive decline in Word since its peak in Office 2003 but I don't want to sound like a grumpy old man, and this is a woodwork forum! And besides, if I got rid of _woodwork_ books just because they were old there would not be so few left that I would not need these steps!


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## wallace (18 Nov 2012)

Very nice work. I would love to work to them standards. Where did the idea to use patassium permanganate come from. I use it for my koi sometimes to treat disease. It is really dangerous stuff (carcinogenic). It oxidises metals and and kills anything organic. 
Mark


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## AndyT (18 Nov 2012)

wallace":1t0ilvh1 said:


> Very nice work. I would love to work to them standards. Where did the idea to use patassium permanganate come from. I use it for my koi sometimes to treat disease. It is really dangerous stuff (carcinogenic). It oxidises metals and and kills anything organic.
> Mark



I vaguely knew of it as a stain for mahogany from reading old ww books, but was reminded of it a few months ago when someone posted a link on here to a video of some Irish cabinetmakers in Cavan who used it. The videos are well worth watching - the finishing is in Part 3 at 5 mins 38 seconds in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM3OT66iTOs&feature=relmfu


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## jimi43 (31 Aug 2014)

I make no apologies for bringing this topic up again.

My daughter would like to see more in situ shots...open and closed if you could Andy....

She wants something for a cottage library.

Cheers mate

Jim


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## Harbo (31 Aug 2014)

Lovely video - working in suits too 

Rod


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## AndyT (31 Aug 2014)

jimi43":2m0j2rxm said:


> I make no apologies for bringing this topic up again.
> 
> My daughter would like to see more in situ shots...open and closed if you could Andy....
> 
> ...




Happy to oblige Jim - but does this mean you will be making one? I can do a better scan of the design if you want and I do still have a full size drawing. The drawing is essential and I mainly only went wrong when I departed from it.

There is an alternative design in an old Popular Mechanics available on line which might be more cottagey. I think Chippendale did a nice steps/table combination too. Whatever you decide, I'm sure it will turn out well!


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## jimi43 (31 Aug 2014)

Quality..pure quality!

You do realise that there might be a REAL danger of me actually having to make a piece of furniture now!! :? 

Real woodwork instead of piddling around with tools! :mrgreen: 

Cheers mate!

Jimi


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## AndyT (31 Aug 2014)

jimi43":1vbawqfk said:


> Quality..pure quality!
> 
> You do realise that there might be a REAL danger of me actually having to make a piece of furniture now!! :?
> 
> ...



Well, now I've worked out the details for you, it should be a really quick project... :wink: 

I look forward to your wip!


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## Sheffield Tony (1 Sep 2014)

I bought a recent copy of British Woodworking because it had a chair steps project in it, but it was nowhere near as nice as yours Andy. Having a vertically challenged DW, I think that a set should go on my (rather long !) projects list too !


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## AndyT (1 Sep 2014)

Hi Tony, I bought the same issue when I saw that project!
It's a somewhat simpler design, which while retaining the interesting angles, simplifies the joints and decoration.
Instructions are available from Popular Mechanics at 
http://www.popularmechanics.com/_mobile/home/how-to-plans/woodworking/4226197

(I'm glad to see that the pocket hole screws are not compulsory :wink: .)

I wouldn't want to push anyone into taking nine months over the thing like I did but I'd love to see you and Jim both making one and sharing the fun!


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## AndyT (13 Sep 2014)

Talking of simpler versions of the step-chair, as part of the excellent "Doors Open Day" today, I went on a tour round some of the parts of Bristol Central Library that are not usually accessible.
I was very pleased to see that the Bristol Room has its own example:


























According to the guidebook, these steps were made by a craftsman of the Cotswold school in 1906 when the library opened, so they must be sturdy enough.


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## AndyT (18 Sep 2014)

Now come on guys... why the silence? I know that not everyone wants to spend nine months carving mouldings by hand, (though I'm sure Jimi could, and probably make a combined seat and telescope stand if he wanted to) but Tony pointed out the simpler alternative design, and I've shown you another, but still there is no new project thread of anyone making one of these!

What else can I do to nudge someone into action?

Well, this is from The Woodworker in November 1939.

They had already run articles in the October issue on pressing subjects such as how to make a nest of tables, "invaluable to those living in limited accommodation during this war period" and protective light-tight window shutters. By November they were running with designs for a First Aid Cupboard, a loft ladder (in case of incendiaries on the roof); a cupboard for emergency tinned food and furnishing the Anderson Shelter.

They also ran this: concise, one page instructions on how to make a set of chair-steps, costing no more than five shillings, just what you need for hanging up the blackout blinds every night:







So come on, lads, jump to it! :lol:


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## Sheffield Tony (18 Sep 2014)

AndyT":2kqa67q9 said:


> Now come on guys... why the silence?



Erm - it is on my to do list, right after the bookcase, 5 chopping boards, and one three legged stool. In the meantime I'm triying to master the art of making garden fork handles from green ash - you know, the traditional steam bent ones. Don't hold your breath :lol:


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## devonwoody (19 Sep 2014)

And I've got low ceilings.


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## AndyT (5 Oct 2014)

Here are some slightly better pictures of the original instructions, as requested by Benchwayze.

They come from one of my favourite books on old woodworking tools and projects - "Cassell's Woodworking" edited by Paul Hasluck and published in 1912. The original old book is not that common but there is a good cheap paperback reprint of it around, published by Bracken Books in 1995 under the title "The Handyman's Book" which is somewhat easier to find. The scope is huge - everything from a chicken coop to a mahogany whatnot, with lots of ideas and tips along the way.


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## devonwoody (6 Oct 2014)

thanks Andy, and the final sketch of the wash stand or is it could be a winner  

Go well in an ensuite!


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## studioman (21 Nov 2015)

Please can anyone tell me how permanent the Potassium Permanganate staining is? Is it FAIRLY lightfast, or will it fade badly over the years if exposed to indirect sunlight through a window? (I will shortly be considering staining 2 veneered speaker cabinets.)
Thank you.


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## Paul200 (21 Nov 2015)

Thanks for resurrecting this WIP Studioman - just spent an enjoyable hour reading through it. I know nothing about the permanency or otherwise of Potassium Permanganate as a woodstain but I have a long standing need to build a set of chair steps and this has fired my imagination again! Thanks Andy.

Now - just need to build that workshop ...............


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## AndyT (21 Nov 2015)

Glad to see someone else wanting to make some steps. Don't forget the WIP! As for the stain, I will take some pictures later but my impression is that it has been pretty well permanent.


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## MusicMan (21 Nov 2015)

Very nice work and a great result. I have had the ambition to make a similar chair for a long time, and have some walnut and rosewood salted away. I know the book you have worked from, but in fact the design is even earlier. It is known as the Benjamin Franklin chair, invented by the same, and dates from 1760-1780. There's some information here: http://www.benfranklin300.org/db/admin/ ... 53_lrg.jpg and one of the originals still exists, shown below. Though yours looks more practical . I have followed your WIP with great interest!

Congrats again

Keith


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## AndyT (22 Nov 2015)

Ok here are some snaps to try to see how fade resistant the finish is after three years beside a south facing window.
This is the exposed part of the seat






and for comparison here is the underside of the same board






and here is the upper surface of the lower step which stays mostly in shadow






It's hard to judge, especially as these were taken on a different camera and in bright sunlight, but I would say that there has been some fading but not much. I've no idea how this wood might have faded or darkened if left unfinished and walnut might behave entirely differently. And there are other variables such as the strength of the solution and number of coats you use.

Anyhow, I hope that helps anyone thinking of trying potassium permanganate as a chemical wood stain.


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## Droogs (22 Nov 2015)

Thanks Andy,
Certainly looks like it's standing up quite well. Have you used it much as a step ladder?


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## AndyT (22 Nov 2015)

Droogs":3jz7m5bk said:


> Thanks Andy,
> Certainly looks like it's standing up quite well. Have you used it much as a step ladder?



Oh, yes, every day... :---) 

To be honest, I can reach the ceiling if I just stand on the seat of the chair, but if all I wanted was something strictly practical I could have bought a lightweight aluminium job and not spent nine months puzzling over how to join triangles together! This project was really just an excuse to see if I could stretch my skills and make something which appealed to me. I thoroughly enjoyed the process of making it.


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## Andy RV (23 Nov 2015)

Great job Andy, I thought i'd appalled you on this project previously but apparently not...!

After reading this 12 months ago I used Potassium Permanganate a mahogany bookcase and was impressed and continue to be with the results.

I think people should not consider Potassium Permanganate as a stain because that's not what its doing. Is is an oxidizing agent which greatly accelerates the oxidization of the timber which results with the change in colour that would naturally occur over time. Rather than pigments and dye molecules which _'artificially'_ change the colour due their constituents.

Andy


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## markblue777 (2 Dec 2015)

a lovely chair and set of steps at the end of that. Really nice work and a good WIP as well.
Cheers
Mark


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## Steve1066 (6 Dec 2015)

Very nice,


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