# 3D design packages that won't break the bank.



## builderchad (19 May 2006)

For those like me who are not comfortable with CAD/CAM software nor SketchUp there are always alternatives. While I find SketchUp great for designing houses and laying out rooms I also find it overly simplified and have yet to design a complete piece of furniture without pulling my hair out. 

*GMax* - free - a cut down version of the leading 3D design package 3D Studio Max. Although aimed primarily at game makers and modders it is still very accomplished at technical design. On-screen rendering only like SketchUp but much more flexible texture manipulation - http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax

*MilkShape* - £15 - Shareware also geared for gamers but has a very nice user interface, is very accomplished and wonderful rendering capabilities with a very active community - http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/

*Blender 3D* - free - Open source and very vibrant helpful community (as is the case with all popular freeware packages). Blender used to be commercial, made by a Dutch company that sadly went bust, but thankfully for the rest of us they released the source code as open source. That means this is commercial grade software and these guys were one of the first in the market (mid 90s) and invented many of the now common techniques and UI innovations found in other design packages - http://www.blender.org/cms/Home.2.0.html

*Rhino 3D* - £600 - Pricey but if you're serious about design but this is THE package for industrial design outside of CAD/CAM. A trial is available. (corrected by Ike) This excels at technical design as well as organic modelling and is a truely superb package. http://www.rhino3d.com/

*Alibre Xpress* - free - (added by Johnboy) has an interface very similar to other 3d modelling packages. A wireframe can be drawn, dimensioned and constrained then extruded. ...better for woodworking. Curves are much better supported too. It comes with a pretty good set of tutorials as well. http://www.alibre.com/xpress/

*Kerkythea* - free - (added by John H) _Rendering_ environment so you can export SketchUp models to render professionally. http://www.softlab.ntua.gr/~jpanta/Graphics/Kerkythea/

*Amapi Pro* - older versions free, new versions from €90 - (added by Gidon) I've only had a little play but it seems like a perfect companion to SU for those tricky organic shapes that SU isn't designed for. http://www.eovia.com/demos/amapi_pro/amapi_pro.asp - free version is here: http://www.eovia3d.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=1

There are others like Maya, 3D Studio Max and many others but these are in the £1000's so I don't even want to touch on them. There are also lots of other cheap or free 3D packages so please add them here if you use or know anything about them.


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## SketchUp Guru (19 May 2006)

Thanks for posting that list. there are some good packages listed there.

I'm curious as to why you're having trouble drawing a piece of furniture in SketchUp. Would you care to elaborate?


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## mr (19 May 2006)

If Builderchad's sketchup problems are anything like mine, I think the problems with drawing are founded on a basic gap between brain and concept. I can draw something on paper (well enough so that I know what it is at least) but when it comes to sketchup it seems that the tool gets in the way. I cant work out how to do a curve at all. I tried drawing a box and ended up chopping virtual lumps out of it trying to put a curve into one of the sides. Its odd because I can do other fairly complex stuff to do with software but there just seems to be (for me) a mental block with sketchup. Ive spent hours with it and produced nothing even nearly as useful as my pencil sketches with scribbled dimensions. Part of the problem may be that I can see what Im trying to achieve in my head and making Sketchup represent that seems, in my case, to result in the concept changing and I dont mean developing for the better which would be a good thing and one of the reasons I was interested in trying sketchup in the first place. Ive not had much luck with other CAD apps either its just a mental block I think.


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## SketchUp Guru (19 May 2006)

MR, would you want to scan and post a pencil drawing of something of the sort that gives you trouble? I'd be willing to take a crack at drawing it in SU. Start with something relaively simple so I can make a tutorial of it.


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## builderchad (20 May 2006)

I think my problems with SketchUp lie in the fact that I am used to a very 'mechanical' creation process and more in-depth user interface that I got used to using AutoCad (way back) and other 3D design packages more recently. For example, in GMax I select the basic shape I want and then type in the exact dimensions in a well laid out UI which has different boxes like width, height, length etc. I know you can do this in SketchUp as well but I am finding it hard to get used to the way its done with just one little box tucked into the bottom right corner. The push-pull tool is a work of genius but I would still like to be able to have a more traditional UI that I can fall back on.

I too have problems with anything that isn't rectangular in shape when using SketchUp. In other fully fledged 3D package the rich user interface gives me complete and precise control over curves, dimensions, position, orientation etc. etc. And I think for some, like me, this is where the problem lies.

The more 'traditional' user interface filled with boxes and buttons, while daunting at first, actually presents the user with a very methodical and mechanical way of going about creating something. Why programmers more recently think this is a bad thing I really don't know. The Microsoft "Oh, I see you're writting a letter, let me help you" model really drives me crazy. I know how to write a letter damnit! No I want a dash THERE, thats why I typed it THERE, argghh!!! There are days when using MS Word I find myself praying "bring back Wordperfect 5.1 please please"... 

Another issue I have with SketchUp is the texturing. In 3D design packages there is no end to the detail and control you have over texturing and lighting, which for me seems an important aspect of designing a piece of furniture. I want to see what a piece would look like with different woods and in different environments. Sure it wont be exactly like reality, but I want something that at least approximates it.

Anyway, I will definately give SketchUp another go seeing as so many people love it and get on with it. I just need to get used to this new landscape in UI design.


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## Neomorph (20 May 2006)

It sounds like Chad has the very same problem getting to grips with Sketchup that I did. Using SU after using other 3D packages seem to make it harder to learn for some bizarre reason.

Now Chad I'd advise you to stick at it...just ask others here how angry I was getting with SU and was just about to give up when I started following Dave R's tutorials and finally saw the light. Don't get the urge because you could do wonders in AutoCAD to miss out the basic learning steps in SU because they are really quite different... but they actually end up HELPING the designer rather than hindering. If you try to jump ahead you just get frustrated and end up blaming the program like I did and what it sounds like you are (Just search for my early SU posts and they are so very much like yours they could be clones heh).

I'm now very much a SU supporter (thanks Dave :x In the end I had to stop myself from designing as that was all I was doing in the end) and that was even before they made it free.


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## Johnboy (20 May 2006)

Once again!!! Alibre xpress is free and has an interface very similar to other 3d modelling packages. A wireframe can be drawn, dimensioned and constrained then extruded. I have been trying sketchup now that there is a free version and still think that Alibre is better for woodworking. Curves are much better supported too. It comes with a pretty good set of tutorials as well.

John

Forgot the link.

http://www.alibre.com/xpress/


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## gidon (20 May 2006)

John - it does look pretty good. Just downloaded and had a little play. Have you got any examples of woodworking designs you've done on it? I like the way you make parts for an assembly and the way construction drawings are created for you.
One thing though is the license. Seems to be no guarantee that it will be free for ever. The free license is for a year. I would hate to put a lot of time into learning a package like this and then for it to be not free anymore. What's the 3d sketch - which is disabled in this version all about do you know?
Cheers
Gidon


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## Neomorph (20 May 2006)

i still think Sketchups biggest problem is the tutorials (not Dave R ones that is) and the video tutorials are the worst I've seen in a long time.

My advice is learn the simple stuff before trying to leap ahead to the difficult stuff (like I tried to do... hey I know 3D programs... Doh!).

Once you understand how SU handles the basics it actually becomes more intuitive. If you need to see a view without the perspective bend you can actually turn it off. Oh and if you find the texturing not to your liking you can even export the model to render in a freeware rendering program called kerkythe (I think thats the name...) or even any rendering program that takes your fancy.


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## Paul Kierstead (20 May 2006)

I think comparing SU to traditional CAD is a bit of comparing apples to oranges. I have a fair bit of experience with AutoCAD 3D solid modelling and I was doing a set of technical drawings, that *kind* of application would certainly be my choice. The key in SketchUP is "Sketch"; trying to do technical drawings is probably going to make you pull your hair out. OTOH, trying to sketch out a concept in AutoCAD can be equally irritating (or even more so). They are vastly different tools. The 3D object tools like Rhino are another kettle of fish altogether, and better suited for full object creation. You need the right tool for the right job, and sketching ideas is a wholly different idea then technical drawings.

Just my C$0.02.


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## MikeW (21 May 2006)

I was reading on another forum today [I think] where one user was mentioning they were using SU Pro for quickly getting ideas down and them exporting the result into ACad or TurboCad, cannot remember which.

It does make sense to use SU for furniture use. I may see if it would speed up development of ideas. If so, I would get the full package in order to then take it into TC Pro.

For the majority of my furniture, I think SU would be more than adequate. And for the rest of what I have been doing, drawing for the fun of it, it still may make sense for quick exploration.

Take care, Mike


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## Johnboy (21 May 2006)

Gidon, there is this thread about modelling a door/drawer front and modifying it.
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=103384&highlight=#103384

There is also a picture of a chest of drawers in this thread
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=67759&highlight=#67759

I also used it to model the drawer fronts for my comp entry but havn't saved the file.

I am about to model a coffee table and will post it when finished.

Neomorph, I thought that you could only export into Kerkythea from the paid version, aren't some of the export options disabled in the free one?

John


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## ike (21 May 2006)

If anyone does use or wants to try Rhino and has any problems or questions with it, I'd be more than happy to assist as I use Rhino for work. Feel free to PM me to grab my attention.

Builderchad wrote:


> This is aimed specifically at technical design rather than organic modelling



Rhino excels for modelling organic shapes. One reason why its a tool of choice for jewellry designers. Because it it fully NURBS based, it has a modelling feature set that surpasses most other CAD packages including Solidedge and AutoCAD. It is Astonishingly good for _accurate_ freeform modelling. Thanks to NURBS one can create and edit solid models of any shape, switching seamlessly between surface modelling and solid modelling . It only ever crashed once on me in over 5 years it's that good.

(NURBS - Non-uniform rational B-splines... and no, I wouldn't want to understand the maths behind it!)
cheers,

Ike


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## Neomorph (21 May 2006)

Johnboy":znntinfn said:


> Neomorph, I thought that you could only export into Kerkythea from the paid version, aren't some of the export options disabled in the free one?
> 
> John



Ahh... Didn't know that... I have the old pro version (got given it from an architect/graphic artist friend who bought it but didn't like it) so I didn't realise you don't have the export option.

Actually if anyone wants a model exported to another format I'm sure one of the people people who have the Pro version wouldn't mind doing the conversion or is that sort of illegal?


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## builderchad (21 May 2006)

John H, thanks I will look for those Dave R tutorials and go through them.

Ike, you're absolutley right in what you said about Rhino, my mistake, and I have editted the entry to reflect that. I used it many years ago for a short time because a jeweller friend of mine introduced it to me and it seemed very popular with product designers as well. So I should have said it has very strong support for technical design as well as organic modelling. 

Thanks Johnboy and John H I put your entries in my original post.


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## gidon (22 May 2006)

Thanks John - definately a useful and powerful program. It's a shame it can't export to as format SU understands - it would be nice to be able to use it along side SU for some things.
Think I'll stick with SU for now - learning one program is hard enough! But may contunue to have the odd play with Alibre as I get a chance. Think the various comments are very valid - they are actually quite different programs. And Blender 3d is another kettle of fish altogether - i spent sometime learning how to use that ages ago - even bought the book. But the re-learning curve is a nightmare!
Cheers
Gidon


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## gidon (24 May 2006)

BC - perhaps another one to add to your list - free download - but full commercial version (1 version old):
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=10158
Cheers
Gidon


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## builderchad (24 May 2006)

Thanks Gidon, thats been added now.


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