# GWW - Is it just me missing the lack of projects?



## Newbie_Neil (9 May 2006)

Hi all

The _*New*_ Good Woodworking seems to have settled down now.

I wondered whether it was just me that was missing the projects that used to adorn it's pages?

Cheers
Neil


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## Pete W (9 May 2006)

Hi Neil - no, it's not just you.

I bought the latest issue - first in a long time - but it was in the recycling box about 15 minutes after I started reading. Not that there's much reading in it.

I feel obliged to emphasise that this is very much my own opinion - I know that there are many who like the new format. But I'm happier with Pop Woodworking and FWW from the US. Even happier with Woodworking magazine - just wish they'd publish more frequently!


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## Alf (9 May 2006)

Pete W":d764vgfs said:


> Even happier with Woodworking magazine - just wish they'd publish more frequently!


Part of me wishes it was more often, but I'd sooner have quality than quantity.

Having given up on GWW I can't say, but I wonder could it be because the projects that are in there, so many of them we've already seen previews of online? Certainly I found I was getting rather more _deja vu_ than excitement at new project ideas towards the end of my sub. Just a thought.

Cheers, Alf


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## Hitch (9 May 2006)

I dont buy it myself, but get it from my grandad after hes finished with them.
When i picked up the latest bundle he mentioned that it seemed to be getting a little thin on content.



From what i have seen of them so far, i think its not so much a lack of projects, but as of late it seems to be covering more practical things, rather than coaster and things like that. Depends on what you want i suppose.


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## mr (9 May 2006)

Alf":yesgvjz3 said:


> could it be because the projects that are in there, so many of them we've already seen previews of online?
> Cheers, Alf


Ive often had similar thoughts seeing as how many of the contributers loiter round these parts - natural enthusiasm means that they want to post here but that does rather telegraph some of the magazines content unfortunately. 
Cheers Mike


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## Philly (9 May 2006)

With my house move carry-on I've not been so busy. Apologies all.  
And that Steve Maskery spends all his time in the virtual world now :wink: :lol: :lol: 
Cheers
Philly


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## Gill (9 May 2006)

Add me to the list of former readers, too.

I wonder if the circulation is holding up or if it's just lost favour on this forum.

Gill


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## Paul Chapman (9 May 2006)

I've been a member of this Forum for only about 4 months but in that time I have learnt more about woodworking than I have from years of reading woodworking magazines.

Where a Forum like this scores over magazines is that one can get such a wide range of views and opinions from people right across the spectrum of woodworking experience - from those who do it for a living at one end of the scale, to happy amateurs at the other. And members are so generous in their willingness to share views and experience.

Not only that, but one can get the information now. And there is all the archive stuff to look up without having to clutter your house up with years of back issues of magazines.

Of course this has only been possible because of the internet and like all technology it brings about changes. In the same way that newspapers have lost a lot of their appeal because television can bring you the news as it happens, so the internet is eating away at the market for magazines.

There will always be a market for books and magazines but they will have to change and develop so that they can live alongside the internet and not try to compete with it. 

Sad, maybe, but inevitable I think.

Paul


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## woodbloke (9 May 2006)

Everyone has their favourite mag and I too have done a trawl of them in WHS on a Saturday morning when 'er indoors is in M&S with the credit card. If your interest is in furniture making, as mine is, as opposed to general woodwork topics then IMHO then nothing comes remotely close to F&C. I am biased because a) I contribute and b) I have every single copy since day one. The mission statement is 'promoting excellence in furniture making' ie; it is produced for the professional maker but there is sufficient content to inspire the amateur.
For example in this month's edition there are articles by, amongst others;
John Lloyd making a traditional replica bookcase
John Bullar talking about the use of chisels for cutting joints (part of a series about basic kit and techniques for apprentices)
The Wood Awards Competition
The editor continues his series of articles on SCM machinery
Williams and Cleal make a bookcase
Kevin Ley discusses all manner of workshop cramps
Mark Ripley continues to look at the construction of suite of furniture for a chapel (oak sideboard in this issue)
Alan Holtham looks at the Metabo 310S combination machine
Toolbox - looking at whats new this month
Q&A - how do you clean up and finish the holly and mahogany deck of an old speedboat?
In conclusion, I would *quote* from Issue 113
".....the criteria for inclusion of an article should not be cost but excellence. The interest comes from the futhering of our understanding and appreciation of furniture and the creation process, not wether we happen to be amateur or professionals. The many other magazines pander to the perceived needs of the amateur and offer little of real content and seem to encourage mediocrity." (Don Walters)

Next time your better half is loose in M&S, have a good look at F&C, I don't think you'll be disappointed.


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## Steve Maskery (9 May 2006)

Hi all,

Well I don't know what to say really. Of course, I'm biased, and of course I hate to see unhappy readers, or, even worse, ex-readers. And, of course, I have my own opinions about the changes. I'm not going to get involved with the details here, but they can be summarized as I Like Some Of Them And Dislike Others.

Gill, when I saw Nick recently he told me that sales were significantly up, and against a falling market.

As for projects, I agree that there appears to be fewer. I certainly haven't written many this last 12 months - I haven't had any commissions. The few pieces I've made for chez Maskery have been sitting for months waiting to be sprayed, due to it being permanently winter, so have been completed only in the last couple of weeks. It does mean, however, that all of a sudden I have a little rash of them to submit.

I think one of the weaknesses of GW in the past was that, although many of the projects were good and interesting, there was very little about the more advanced techniques. So I've spent much of the last year writing about these - mathematical design for woodies, dovetails on the bandsaw, etc, and whatever interesting jigs I could write about. Some for old hands, some for beginners.

My own journey started by wanting projects, projects and more projects. I wanted stuff I could make. Then I wanted stuff I could dream about making. Then I wanted the tools to make my own dreams. Now, as Philly says, I spend more time on this wretched machine using SU than I do actually in the workshop.

I don't know what the answer is. GW projects are almost entirely written by readers, not the GW staff, so the short answer is "If you want projects, then write them!". I'm sorry if my posting here detracts from the mag, perhaps I'd better stop shooting myself in the foot (not for the first time in my life) and keep mum.

One of the problems is that mags, UK ones at least, are not awash with cash. ALL mags have a lower circulation than 5 or 6 years ago, because so many of us get our WW input, well, here. Fewer readers means less income, less ability to sell advertising space, which means less income again. They can't commission projects for the sake of filling the pages.

But one thing I can promise you. If you don't like what I write, or the way I write it, please tell me. I can't speak for the mag, I can only speak for myself, but I really do try to give what I'm told people want. If it's not, say so (nicely, please, I'm a sensitive little soul) and I'll try to change. If you do like it, tell Nick, he's my boss! He does take criticism (good and bad) seriously, even though he may not like it or agree with it. But if there are specifics, like "We want more Projects suitable for xxx" then tell him. It may take a few months (there can be quite a lead time - some of my recent articles were actually written pre-millennium!) but if he can, he will.

That's all, I've said enough, I think.

Cheers
Steve Maskery, Internationally Renowned Woodworking Superstar. Almost.


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## Paul Chapman (10 May 2006)

Steve,

In an attempt to be helpful, here's what I actually do.

Back in the 1970's when I was starting out with woodworking (I had just got married, had little money and realised that if I wanted nice things I had to make them myself) I had a thirst for knowledge so I used to buy any woodworking magazine or book that was available. 

As I learnt the basics I started to become dissatisfied because most magazines tend, over the years, to repeat themselves. That's OK in that there must be a constant stream of beginners starting out who want to know the basic stuff. However, there seems to be little in the way of magazines catering for those who want to move on and do more advanced work.

In more recent years I used to buy the American magazine Fine Woodworking because that sometimes had some inspirational stuff in it.

Now that I am retired and have to be a bit more selective about what I spend my money on, the only woodworking magazine I always buy is Furniture & Cabinetmaking (F&C) because it's the only one that caters for people who want the inspirational stuff, and there is always some very good work in it. The others I flick through and only buy they if they have something that I am particularly interested in.

On the subject of flicking through the mags, those covered in plastic because they contain free gifts or catalogues really annoy me. Invariably the free gifts are not worth having, the catalogues you could get from the firms anyway and if the magazine turns out to not have anything much in it, I feel that I've been done out of £3.50 or whatever it costs. So I tend not to buy those ones.

I hope this is of some help.

By the way, I quite like your stuff and have sometimes bought GWW because of it. Keep it up :wink: 

Paul


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## Alf (10 May 2006)

Paul Chapman":jq6s68co said:


> On the subject of flicking through the mags, those covered in plastic because they contain free gifts or catalogues really annoy me. Invariably the free gifts are not worth having, the catalogues you could get from the firms anyway and if the magazine turns out to not have anything much in it, I feel that I've been done out of £3.50 or whatever it costs. So I tend not to buy those ones.


Oh hear, hear! Not that long ago Andy and Pete explained to us how GWW didn't go in for cover gifts 'cos content was more important...  I'd love to know if sales would have gone up without the cover gifts. :?

Anyway, I have a thought, which I shall share whether you like it or not. I've said it before, that there doesn't seem to be anything to settle down and _read_ anymore. You know, real writing that you can read by going consistantly up and down columns with pics to illustrate the words actually near the relevant text. Well a comment I got after one of my last reviews made me think a bit more - sorry, I can't remember who it was  but it was essentially "I'm not going to be buying one of these, but I enjoy reading the review anyway" (which was really nice, but I'm not mentioning it for my own edification - there is a point!) And there's a problem. I find in magazines now that if you don't want to make the projects then there's nothing to make me want to read the article about it. It doesn't flow, it's too bitty, even though projects have such an obvious beginning/middle/end framework somehow it gets lost in the presentation. I'd be very surprised if that was the contributor's fault; I doubt any of them are professional writers. In GWW's case I'm not even sure it's the editor's fault. If GWW were struggling with three of them, what's it like now with Pete gone and Nick apparently running his business at the same time? The internet is lousy for actual reading material - a book or magazine is always going to be preferred to a laptop for a little something to pass the time in the smallest room... So there's a place where the mags can really challenge the 'net IMO. 

But I've ranted enough. I'd promised not to do this again too.  

Cheers, Alf


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## Pete W (10 May 2006)

Alf":jp86wdlu said:


> I'd promised not to do this again



Glad you did - you made many of my points for me, and made them much better 

The reading thing is my main gripe. Yes, you can get lots of info here and other online sites, but some of us spend most of the day in front of the computer - it's no substitute for something you can take into the garden, or the park, or the train or wherever.


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## Gill (10 May 2006)

If the circulation is up against a falling market, it indicates that the magazine is being run successfully in commercial terms. Any problems must therefore lie with us instead :lol: !

I wonder if the members of this forum are too demanding. We tend to be more accomplished than the market that magazines aims at, using sophisticated programs like SketchUp to design projects and egging each other on to develop our techniques beyond those of the average weekend woodworker. Perhaps we quickly outgrow the scope of the articles that GWW has to offer. I'm not so sure it's just a matter of the projects - like Alf, I suspect it's more to do with the way the magazine is written.

When I first started 'grown-up' woodworking I looked to GWW and found it very informative, although I couldn't stand the articles written by John Brown. As time passed, I came to find those articles more entertaining and informative than the rest of the magazine. GWW just hasn't found anyone to replace him, despite the valiant attempts of David Savage.

For me, it's not the projects that a magazine has to offer; it's the philosophy which underlines the projects and the companionship of authors who make me feel they're artists, not engineers. I like to feel as if I'm sharing a journey with them, not simply producing an item.

Just a few thoughts  .

Gill


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

Gill":de1r4o3z said:


> For me, it's not the projects that a magazine has to offer; it's the philosophy which underlines the projects and the companionship of authors who make me feel they're artists, not engineers. I like to feel as if I'm sharing a journey with them, not simply producing an item.



Yes, yes, YES!

S


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## Alf (10 May 2006)

Gill":xpqndf2q said:


> When I first started 'grown-up' woodworking I looked to GWW and found it very informative, although I couldn't stand the articles written by John Brown.


Oh gosh, no, neither could I. Ghastly old luddite, all those old tools he's got, s'all right for him having all that old stuff he's gathered up over years and years etc etc. But I still read it, 'cos it was actually rather well written, despite his claims to the contrary. I blame him entirely for sowing the seeds of my own sorry state now. :lol: 



Steve Maskery":xpqndf2q said:


> Gill":xpqndf2q said:
> 
> 
> > For me, it's not the projects that a magazine has to offer; it's the philosophy which underlines the projects and the companionship of authors who make me feel they're artists, not engineers. I like to feel as if I'm sharing a journey with them, not simply producing an item.
> ...


I'll have what he's having... :-s :lol: I agree though, I think. If what you mean is we've sort of lost the personal touch? 

Cheers, Alf


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## Nick W (10 May 2006)

It also helps if the articles are written using grammatical, correctly spelled English, wot I find GWW does gooder than most of the others. :wink:


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## Sgian Dubh (10 May 2006)

Ah, but Nick, what if the original manuscript was writ proper and the editor(s) hack it up into gobbledegook? That does happen. DAMHIKT, ha, ha. Slainte.


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

Nick W":2orrx80o said:


> It also helps if the articles are written using grammatical, correctly spelled English, wot I find GWW does gooder than most of the others. :wink:



Ah yes, a subject close to my own heart (but you knew that already, didn't you?). Take _carcase_ and _carcass_, for example. The number of time I've read (not in GW of course) about how to glue up a dead animal.

Cheers
Steve


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## Nick W (10 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":3irhrhik said:


> Take _carcase_ and _carcass_, for example. The number of time I've read (not in GW of course) about how to glue up a dead animal.



Why, what else would you use Hide Glue for? :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

Nice one!
I must remember that.

Cheers
Steve


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## dedee (10 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":33xkwrfd said:


> Take _carcase_ and _carcass_, for example. The number of time I've read (not in GW of course) about how to glue up a dead animal.



Steve, I specifically remember looking this up when I published details of my chisel cabinet and according to OED I seem to recall both spellings were acceptable. :shock: 

Andy


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

There we are then, Steve Maskery hoist by his own petard. 'B
out time too, eh?

 

Cheers
Steve, learning something new every day.


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## Sgian Dubh (10 May 2006)

Hmm? Yes Steve, but I use both spellings, sometimes even in the same paragraph. 

Another teaser-- mortise or mortice? Again I use both spellings. 

What about rabbet and rebate or dado and housing, and then there's blind dovetails and lap dovetails, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. 

I've noticed a lot of American terminology along with American styles of woodworking, the latter particularly amongst the amateurs, creeping into British usage. All of it is no doubt due to the influence of internet woodworking forums along with the showing of those insidious Nail-Gun-Norm TV shows on UK TV. Slainte.


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

Sgian Dubh":33evmv4h said:


> .
> 
> Another teaser-- mortise or mortice? Again I use both spellings.



And so you should, one is a verb and the other is a noun. Like practise and practice, or license and licence.

Unfortunately I've failed to persuade the GW team of this, despite 10 years of trying! All my mortising becomes morticing, every time. :evil: 

Cheers
Steve


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## Alf (10 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":2vmv9m5k said:


> Sgian Dubh":2vmv9m5k said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...


Possibly because it's not the case. This came up on WoodCentral just recently as it happens and despite practically begging someone to tell me I'm wrong, no-one took up the challenge. According to the OED morti*c*e is just an alternative spelling of morti*s*e.

Cheers, Alf


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## Steve Maskery (10 May 2006)

All right then, when _I _write it one is a noun and one is a verb.

This isn't fair, I'm upholder of the English language and all my cornerstones are being pulled out from under my feet! How on earth can we communicate if two very similar words are used interchangeably to mean very different things?

You'll be telling me that the Greengrocer's Apostrophe is OK next!

Steve, going off to sulk.


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## Chris Knight (10 May 2006)

As an akshul owner of an OED - albeit a 1971 edition (although it has won me plenty of Scrabble games) I can tell you that just about anything goes!

The OED has a distinct preference for mortise - relegating mortice to an also-ran alternative spelling along with - take a deep breath here and try to spot it!

mortas(e) mortays(e,eys.esse), mortyse, morteis, mortaise, mortis(s (e,(mortesce, mortteise) mortoise, mortice.

In the verb form mortise seems favoured followed by mortice.

However, remember that the OED is an historical dictionary and really only goes up to the early 20th century. Longmans dictionary which is better on more current usage also favours the s form for both nouns and verbs.

Collins Cobuild dictionary which is also very good on modern usage favours the s form to the extent of NOT EVEN SHOWING the c form!


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## Paul Chapman (10 May 2006)

:shock: Blimey :shock: :? :? 

Paul


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## mr (10 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":1uas17u9 said:


> Steve, going off to sulk.



hohoho 

Ack! did you correct that as I quoted you?


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## Nick Gibbs (10 May 2006)

Ok. Enough of my nine-month boycott. This has been a fascinating thread, and one that I welcome. It's largely been conducted with intelligence, respect and passion. I applaud the Forum.

I agree that mortise is a verb and mortice a noun, but I've more important things to do than get too worried about that. I'll tell Sophie to bring that in as a new style from tomorrow.

My job is to find the best projects, techniques, products, writing, ideas, philisophies, people, workshops etc... as possible. I do it to the best of my abilities (I hope) and resources, as do the rest of our fantastic team, and we have a lot of fun in the process. I've been so heartened by the amazing letters and emails we've received from readers saying they can sense that fun.

Whether or not we are targeting exactly the right niche in the woodworking market is a mute point. Obviously we'd like more of one type of reader without losing any off the other end. It is a fine balance, and makes editing the most amazing job of all. 

I'd love to be able to direct our skills towards all woodworkers, of all abilities and levels, but that's not commercially possible. I'd love to be able to show the Americans how to produce the best woodworking magazines. If we had a fraction of their resources, and a readership base as large as theirs, I'm sure we could take woodworking magazines into a new dimension. But we don't and we have to live with what we can achieve, forever reaching to the sky in the hope that we touch the ceiling. 

Gill has it right when she says that many readers only survive for a certain amount of time with any magazine. Some markets only expect a reader to stay for a couple of years. As readers we often consider a magazine has changed, when of course it is we that have moved on. There's nothing like a redesign to provide exactly that sort of punctuation in the life of a publication and the experience of a reader. Fortunately many seem to like what we have achieved.

The amazing thing about producing magazines is that it is a team pursuit. A magazine is the product of an extraordinary dynamic, created by a disparate group of staff and contributors, each person providing their own skills and ideas to complement and develop the vision. I cannot think of any more exciting task than to lead such a team and to realise that vision. And all the time we are listening to readers, to our friends, to colleagues, to the industry and to ourselves, adjusting, developing and fighting for our ideas. And all the time circumstances (in the form of holidays, illness, moves, etc...) get in the way. That's life.

Hopefully we enrich the lives of a few woodworkers a little. Hopefully we encourage a few more to have a go. 

Like so many of my generation I am a child of the e-world, however if you want British woodworking magazines to survive then the Forum has to consider whether the promotion of American publications is to everyone's long-term benefit.

One day, once the commercial model exists to reward our skills online, we'll obviously turn our efforts your way, but for the moment let's all live in harmony side by side. We have a lot to learn and benefit from one another. I'd certainly be far more willing to mention UKWorkshop in the pages of Britain's best selling woodwork magazine if there wasn't a risk that readers would find destructive comments and pointers towards rival magazines. 

Thanks for reading this, and for supporting Good Woodworking, and especially thanks to our loyal contributors and team. We always welcome contributions and suggestions from woodworkers, and you can contact me at [email protected].

Nick


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## Barry Burgess (10 May 2006)

Nick having read all that has been written I am voting with my subscription - not to renew
Thanks
barry


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## Philly (11 May 2006)

Gee, Barry. That'll teach Nick for coming back to the forum :roll: 
Philly :wink:


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## MikeW (11 May 2006)

Nick Gibbs":2cru6vfe said:


> Ok. Enough of my nine-month boycott. This has been a fascinating thread, and one that I welcome. It's largely been conducted with intelligence, respect and passion. I applaud the Forum.
> ...
> Like so many of my generation I am a child of the e-world, however if you want British woodworking magazines to survive then the Forum has to consider whether the promotion of American publications is to everyone's long-term benefit.
> ...
> Nick


Hi Nick, 

Welcome back.

As you responded in a public forum, so will I. We have exchanged several emails in the past, and I think very positive ones. My wishes are only the best for GWW.

My feeling is that business ebbs and flows--not only locally, regionally, but also globally. This applies to all business, not just the publishing world.

Ultimately, if the goal of the readership is to learn, be enriched and be challenged as woodworkers, it is in their best interest to seek out ways to ensure their own needs are met. The challenge of a woodworking publication is to enable the readership to further advance their skills and or encourage them to try to advance in woodworking, all the while serving the publications needs--revenue.

If a magazine has a clear goal and truly believes they are meeting those goals and readership does not come on board to ensure the economic success of said magazine, then what? Is it the readership's error, the publisher's, or a combination? Possibly both to varying degrees for different individuals.

Take me personally. I went from a rather lucrative career to a small fraction of the annual salary I made in about a two year time-span. While I subscribed to many magazines prior to the reversal, I no longer can. I have to make a choice as to which publications I spend my money on. My wants exceed my abilities.

I've said in the past, I could care less whether a magazine is published in Timbuktu if it meets my needs as a woodworker. My job is to decide which one. The publishers job is to determine the target audience and plan to achieve reasonable market penetration into the target audience. No publication will ever gain total market penetration. 

Popular Woodworking is a good example here. Over the last few years it has been slowly redefining itself. I believe it is gaining market share against FWW--and rightly so. It has done this, I believe, by focusing attention to what it desires to communicate. I think they have done this in part by listening to people who write in and by perusing the forums, as well as their own journeys in woodworking. By anticipating trends in woodworking, they've sought to align PW's content to a clear vision of how to meet the trends. This seeming growth has not been overnight.

By the above example, I in no way desire to compare GWW to PopWood. It is, I believe, too early for GWW to tell the lasting effects of the redesign and perhaps content changes as regards readership. My only advice is, ensure the content meets the goals and vision of GWW--and that the goals and vision of GWW is what is needed in the UK. When people reinvestigate GWW, perhaps liking "this issue," and see the next is also meeting a need or even piqued their interest, you will grow the readership and hopefully the delivered subscription base will grow. The revenue from advertising will increase, allowing even more effort into expanding GWW's influence in the UK. The adverse is also true.

Again, Nick, my very best wishes to you and the team at GWW.

Take care, Mike


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## StevieB (11 May 2006)

Nick, welcome back to the forum and thanks for breaking your silence  

I think you (and Gill) hit the nail on the head when you said that the audience changes as much as the magazine. By definition the magazine cannot change as a readers skills improve, so you have to hope that as readers move away from GWW to a more inspiration based rather than a practical based magazine your format attracts more readers onto the bottom of the market to replace them. 

Format changes to GWW will increase this rate of accrual of new readers and sadly loss of readers also, you just have to hope that more come than go. From your comments it appears that this is the case so well done!

Personally, I still learn from GWW so still subscribe. If I continue in this hobby I may well start to look elsewhere as I get better and want different things.

I spend 3 quid on a sandwich at work and thats gone in 10 minutes, GWW takes longer that that to read. In the grand scheme of things I dont think its a great expense if some of an issue is not relevant to me. It would be foolish to expect every issue and every article to match my requirements.

I hope you continue to lurk if not contribute, 

Regards,

Steve.


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## Alf (11 May 2006)

Nick Gibbs":26nks1vt said:


> I agree that mortise is a verb and mortice a noun


There ya go, Steve. Instead of telling them they're wrong for ten years you should have proved mortise and mortice were in fact interchangable and it'd have been changed to the wrong thing ages ago... ](*,) 



Nick Gibbs":26nks1vt said:


> I'd certainly be far more willing to mention UKWorkshop in the pages of Britain's best selling woodwork magazine if there wasn't a risk that readers would find destructive comments and pointers towards rival magazines.


I don't know what to say to that. I'm speechless. 

Nick, we're not your enemy. Like plants that want to grow, we want to get behind a UK magazine and enjoy reading it. But if you get defensive over any suggestions, what can we do? We go elsewhere and find something we do want to read. And we talk about it. It doesn't make us evil enemies of noble British magazine editors - it makes us depressed Brits wondering why, yet again, we have to turn abroad to get something we want. It's just too bad that your vision for GWW happens to be so very different from some members of this forum. Perhaps it should tell you something that it's the most articulate ones. :?

Cheers, Alf


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## mr (11 May 2006)

Alf":3ois7xbq said:


> Perhaps it should tell you something that it's the most articulate ones. :?
> 
> Cheers, Alf


 
I hesitate to say this but it should also be noted that some of the most articulate forum members are also frequent / regular contributors to GWW. From my own point of view GWW doesnt always carry articles I want to read. I cant afford a lot of the kit reviewed so I tend to gloss over the reviews. Even more so in the case of F&C (with their current SCM obsession). There is however always something to read in GWW which isnt always the case with other mags. F&C which was mentioned earlier in the thread attracts criticism that it appears to be by professionals for proffesionals and while I dont accept that this is the case I have to say that there is rarely as much within its pages that I find attracts me. The articles are difficult to read, the obsession with machinery that only a professional workshop can afford irritate me, are the people who buy that kit reading this magazine, or is it simply aspirational, a case of subscribing to Country Life but living in Surbiton (not that theres anything wrong with Surbiton). GWW appears to me to be much more targetted and it may be that a lot of members here arent included in the demographic, perhaps theyre too advanced and wanting different things as has been suggested but even then GWW will often turn up an article thats potentially of interest regardless of skill levels. The interviews, a recent piece on woodlands, the hints & tips etc etc. I could go on but Im starting to bore myself so Ill shut up. 
Cheers Mike


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## Alf (11 May 2006)

mr":8d822z7a said:


> not that theres anything wrong with Surbiton


Point of order... :wink: :lol:


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## Gill (11 May 2006)

As a former subscriber to GWW, it's strange that it seems to be me who has an urge to leap to its defence. When I started woodworking as an adult, I had no idea how to develop my skills so I turned to magazines and GWW met my needs admirably. As time passed I outgrew it and moved on to other, more specialised reading.

There must be an awful lot of adults who are interested in taking up woodwork later in life. These people won't necessarily have the skills or confidence to know what to do. The chances are they won't have the tools either, but they probably have the wherewithal to buy some. GWW will meet their needs admirably, taking them through a variety of projects and advising them as to which tools they will should acquire.

I daresay many of these woodworkers will be happy following the guidance which GWW has to offer for the remainder of their days. Those of us who wish to develop our skills will be looking outside the remit of the magazine. Due to our specialist interests, it's highly unlikely that one magazine would satisfy us in general terms. Some might like FWW, some might prefer F&C; it all depends which way their inclinations are. For myself, I subscribe to Scroll Saw Workshop but I doubt many others here do.

GWW satisfies a general interest in woodwork (as can be seen from its circulation) whilst most of us here are looking for something else. I find it comforting that the magazine is introducing so many newbies to the craft, giving them the basic skills and equipment to enable them to take it further. I wouldn't expect the magazine to change its approach - the circulation figures show that it's being commercially successful.

This conversation rather reminds me of one that I had a few years ago with a lad who was knocking Kylie Minogue's music, sneering, "Who'd want to spend their life making music that only 9-year-olds listen to". My answer was that 9-year-olds are as entitled to be entertained as anyone else. I still believe that, and I hope some of you more accomplished woodworkers might agree that our craft has a place for its Kylie Minogues as well as its Kaiser Chiefs and Pink Floyds.

Gill


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## mr (11 May 2006)

Gill I dont care what you say but there is NO place in this world or any other for the Kaiser Chiefs!  

Like yourself when I started GWW suited my needs best. I havent outgrown it though I do look at other magazines as well. I dont get to see the American ones, living where I do its a 45 min trip to see anything other than GWW. I do read a lot of the" taster" articles on the various American websites and if they were available and funds unlimited I might buy them. I have to say that I dont subscribe to GWW (though I do read every issue) but in the days where I was looking at the magazine racks and would buy the magazine which interested me most in the shop it was GWW that came home with me most often. This may be due to my newb status as much as anything but also , I think, in part to the way the articles are written. Theres a lot of general woodworking knowledge, presented with an attitude / personna rather than straight I did this then I did that, oh and then I used this super expensive multifangled grungewhirdler to achieve this. I like that myself.


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## engineer one (11 May 2006)

i believe that we are all missing the point, magazines are in it to make a profit, as indeed are all those who make things out of wood to sell.

by its very nature a magazine is a finite resource, and is always about
three to six months behind its audience, because of lead times.

as readers improve their skills and knowledge base they will want other things, but somehow in england we expect our magazines to keep pace with us, even though we are evolving more quickly every job we do improves us, but as the questions on the forum show we all need to learn 
on every job we do.

although magazines need to offer aspirational jobs, they should also 
help out the learners, but it is the middle ground that they often miss out
on, and that is where most of us are.

in my motorcycling days, we could tell the seasons by the articles in 
motorcycle mechanics, winter safety etc. for woodworkers that is more
difficult, but remember a summer magazine may well have been 
produced in february or march, and the article written the previous 
august, so we must be slightly more subjective.

the internet is both a blessing and a curse, not least because many of us
do not like alf manage to remember where everything we asked is
placed.

i still buy gww as the first of the british mags, without looking too hard, since every month i find at least one thing useful. as for trad woodworking
what is happening there??????   the other three i try to flick through first before handing over my pennies.

i am lucky i can find most of the american mags, and whilst i take much of 
it with a pinch of salt, many include a single article, or if i am lucky more
than one which makes the cost worth it.

at the end however after a longish period of transition, i am finally going back to actually making. now i know how (i hope) to take and load photos
within a month or so i might actually post some real work, not my dreams.

from my experience in other areas, the biggest problem for ALL magazines in all areas except maybe celebrity kissy kissy ones,
are getting enough writers to provide articles. can i suggest that
many of the contributors here have produced the items, and 
i believe that GWW has the ability to edit, so maybe instead
of just posting here, you should write for the mags too.

so in conclusion, i think nick was brave to re-enter the fray, and
obviously wants to move the magazine forward, but we can help, and
should maybe do so.

paul :wink:


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## mudman (11 May 2006)

The trouble with threads like this is that you will get very few people posting who actually like the subject of discussion.
Instead you tend to get people posting who feel strongly about something and this tends to be a negative point of view along the lines of 'Why isn't there more...' or 'Where have all the .... gone?' or 'I really don't like...'.
This is why I tend to think that although all very valid point, they are not representative of the whole.

Just the fact that circulation is improving is indicative that the majority of people like it.

Myself, I like it, a lot. I actually like more how to bits and less projects. I'm still very much at the learning stage, and indeed always will be and so like to see how to do things rather than what you can do with them.

I don't subscribe but only because I pop up the town via the market on a Tuesday lunchtime and then have a wander through WHSmiths. However, I won't be able to do this in the near future and intend to take one out soon.


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## woodbloke (11 May 2006)

> I'd love to be able to direct our skills towards all woodworkers, of all abilities and levels, but that's not commercially possible



I would have thought that in a marketing situation picking the 'one size fits all' approach is not viable IMO. As a committed reader of F&C they have clearly pitched at the professional end of the spectrum. I do accept, as mentioned in an earlier post that machinery tests tend to be at the more expensive end, though to be fair, allot less expensive stuff has been tested, for example the Kity 419 planer and two others for comparison. Sure, some articles are difficult and tricky to understand but it requires the reader to actually sit down and read the stuff to understand it, its not, in my view, a 'flick through over a quick bite to eat' sort of mag. Even so, I still don't understand how Robert Ingham does some of his stuff...unbelievable. It takes me 2 or 3 hours min to read it.
What F&C does, and always has done, is to inspire me to try produce work of the highest quality that I am capable of, and just as an afterthought it is now sold in over 50 countries worldwide!


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## Barry Burgess (11 May 2006)

Gill":3kdukbfb said:


> A As time passed I outgrew it and moved on to other, more specialised reading.Gill


 
May be this is also true of me - I moved on to ShopNotes and 'Norm' who has cost me loads of money investing in more tools that I have to have and are under utilised. 
I subscribe to ShopNotes and was fortunate to be given a number of back issues that are a constant reference point and ideal to get ideas from.


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## Steve Maskery (11 May 2006)

engineer one":33lru48f said:


> many of us do not like alf



Oh I don't know, she's not _that _bad...

:lol: 

Coat.


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## engineer one (11 May 2006)

oh steve now i am being traduced as well,  :lol: 

i guess what you are trying to prove is that sub editors 
can have a real impact on your words!!!!!!!!!!!!

honest alf i did mean it :lol: :lol: :lol: 

all the best
paul :wink:


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## Chris Knight (11 May 2006)

Paul,
You were simply quoted (accurately) out of context but a little punctuation might have prevented any misunderstanding! :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (11 May 2006)

engineer one":musnmcmk said:


> i guess what you are trying to prove is that sub editors
> can have a real impact on your words!!!!!!!!!!!!



Oh true, very true, how true.

DAMHIKT

Cheers
Steve


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## Steve Maskery (11 May 2006)

I can't remember what it was, but I seem to recall a certain female Prime Minister being quoted, verbatim, in a newspaper, but she was livid because the journalist but a comma where she hadn't and not put one where she had, and it completely changed the meaning of the sentence.

Hyphens, too. Extra marital sex is not the same as extra-marital sex, now, is it?

But now I'm getting silly.

Cheers
Steve


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## mr (11 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":uu0rd19j said:


> Extra marital sex is not the same as extra-marital sex, now, is it?



oh I don't know, it's all the same to me.
</ducks>


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## engineer one (11 May 2006)

some people are obviously getting too much!!!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol: 

waterhead, i will try to revert to my "eats, shoots and leaves" mentality 
but it is so difficult to re-act as quickly as one wants, and think too :lol: 

anyway this has had a good run for our money.

paul :wink:


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## Midnight (12 May 2006)

> I wondered whether it was just me that was missing the projects that used to adorn it's pages?



Last time this subject was thrashed to death I said my piece about the pitiful state of UK mags, no doubt contributing to the wrath of the "faithful" in so doing. At the time I admitted that it'd been some time since I'd last bought any of them, being more than satisfied with the content of FWW, however, I took up Nick's challenge at the time and subbed for a years worth of...lord knows what; the content was in a state of flux at the time. 

First shocker was seeing my visa card hit for the fees twice (that didn't account for 2 different prices however)... probs with their billing dept too..?? Time would tell...

12 months on I've reached the end of the subscription. Personally I've always felt that a rag that constantly needs to give away freebies is trying to apologize or compensate for content that it believes is deficient; if the mag's worth reading, it'll sell itself without the free stuff as FWW has demonstrated over the years...

Being totally honest, I was impressed with one article... Philly's exploration of Sam Maloof's chair was a project that's seen me flicking through its pages repeatedly (Nicely done Philly btw)... However, one solitary article over a 12 month period is disappointing by anyone's standards; I've given up trying to make sense of why Nick feels a piece on his preference of pencils or half chewed biro's is of any interest is beyond me...

At the time of taking out the subscription I braced myself for disappointment... With hinesight, maybe I shoulda followed my gut instinct.. I still believe that there's a market out there for a well written UK mag that puts more emphasis on the piece produced than the tools used to make it.. I honestly believe that such a magazine would have no probs marketing itself in an international marketplace because as this forum demonstrates, there's a hunger out there for well written pieces about projects that promote highly skilled and detailed work... 

Nuff said...


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## Alf (12 May 2006)

Steve Maskery":1g0f16x9 said:


> engineer one":1g0f16x9 said:
> 
> 
> > many of us do not like alf
> ...


 [-( I shall remove the link to this forum from my web page forthwith - I don't want my readers seeing such negatives about me. :roll: :lol: 

The internet connection being as reliable as soap bubbles meant I was prevented from responding to this thread again, which is probably just as well, but it did crystalize a few things. Some of the exc-, er, reasons lead to some questions that I'd be asking myself, if I was GWW editor:

Limited funds and resources - so why should readers pay £3.whatever a pop for this under-funded, thrown-together-in-a-hurry product? Is this really a legitimate excuse for a commercial enterprise? Perhaps 13 issues a year is a bit much...?

The UK doesn't have as big a market as the US - then commercially wouldn't it make sense to produce something that could potentially tap into that bigger market? The Woodworker used to do it by being _the_ woodworking authority; F&C have done it mainly with the Charlesworth effect.

Why are people enthusing about US mags and not us? They only do 7 issues a year, they're more expensive, they don't cover UK tools and practices. It's not fair, so why?

We're appealling to beginners; they've just outgrown it - oh look, a huge un-tapped market of potential readers who've developed the habit of buying a mag but are now left in the lurch. How can we part _them_ from their mag money?

We're appealling to beginners; they've just outgrown it (2) - why can some mags manage to make apparently basic, beginner articles interesting for the more advanced reader and apparently we aren't? 

We're appealling to beginners; they've just outgrown it (3) - virtually all our British competitors are also aimed at beginners, are we at risk of just blending in with the crowd? That makes exclusivity of projects and contributors even more vital.

The internet is a more immediate source of information, often covered in depth with many pictures, but text is not its forte - do we try and compete in the same way and go for a soundbite approach, or do we deliberately try to offer what the internet doesn't or can't?

Well it's what I'd be asking myself anyway. But if free gifts are the answer, what do I know?

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (12 May 2006)

OK, here's another 2p worth.

Most magazines, woodworking and other, are obsessed with equipment tests and reviews (bit like woodworkers, really :wink: ).

That's fine if that's what people want. But if you are going to do a test or review, please do it properly. And please stop doing these "Giant tests" of 15 routers, biscuit jointers, bandsaws or whatever. Each one gets one paragraph, a list of pros and cons and actually tells the reader nothing.

At the risk of embarrassing Alf, the reason her numerous tool reviews on this forum receive such praise is that she has the ability not only to write in a delightful, humorous style but in a way that her pieces are approaching the status of standard reference works.

At Woodex I bought a Veritas cabinet scraper. Before I went I didn't bother looking up articles about cabinet scrapers in magazines. Instead I looked up Alf's review. It told me the sort of things I wanted to know. Not just information about the Veritas scraper, but about scrapers in general.

Just another example of what I actually do rather than just an opinion.

Hope this helps 

Paul


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## Anonymous (12 May 2006)

Newbie_Neil":308ky4zc said:


> Hi all
> 
> The _*New*_ Good Woodworking seems to have settled down now.
> 
> ...



Absolutely and for good reasons. 
I discussed writing up a couple of projects with Nick a few months back and could not get him to tell me anything about prices nor word counts etc. His take seemed to be write the article, submit it and then let's talk about money etc.

I am not about to put together an article on spec with no idea what renumeration I will receive and whether it will be posted in the mag at all. I have better things to do with my time.


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## Anonymous (12 May 2006)

Paul Chapman":1723h4ln said:


> OK, here's another 2p worth.
> 
> Most magazines, woodworking and other, are obsessed with equipment tests and reviews (bit like woodworkers, really :wink: ).
> 
> That's fine if that's what people want.



I absolutley agree Paul, and loads of tool tests and reviews is most definitely *NOT what I want* in a magazine - and one of the reasons why I no longer buy GWW (unless Philly is on the cover of course :wink: )


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## Neil (12 May 2006)

Tony":2v74jijd said:


> ...and one of the reasons why I no longer buy GWW (unless Philly is on the cover of course :wink: )


So you're still getting 13 issues a year then, Tony? :lol: 

Cheers,
Neil


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## mailee (12 May 2006)

I am a relative newby to this forum although not to woodwork but I will still put my Ha'Penny in anyway. A magazine be it good or bad is mainly dictated by it's readers and so the content should follow this. If those readers don't send in there own contributions what will the mag print? Anything it can get hold of that it thinks may be of interest to it's readers. I must admit I don't subscribe to any magazines as such preferring to thumb the shelves to see which has an article of interest in it. I agree they are expensive things to buy nowadays but so is everything in this fast paced world! I instead use most of my hard earned on tools like most of us on here I should imagine. I DO like some of the tool reviews in the mag but I wouold rather see articles written by woodworkers for woodworkers be they old or new. If I had the time and the effort I would contribute as many articles as I could muster to help the novice woodworker as I enjoy passing on my skill to anyone who is keen or will listen. (Some may say a boring bas****)  I have been woodworking for over twenty years now and have read at one time or another most of the mags on the shelf but choose not to subscribe as I like many articles in many mags. I don't tend to read much of the American ones as the wood they use is mostly hardwood of a type that I personally can't get hold of easily here or is out of my budget. I agree they do have some wonderful tools and information over there side of the pond but it is a difficult job to get it over here so a pointless excercise. Ah now the internet that is a different kettle of fish and a vast fountain of knowledge for many, many woodwrkers or indeed would be woodworkers. I would be the first to admit it has helped me on more than one occasion but it is killing magazines. On the other hand it has helped too as it is much easier to send articles and pictures to them! In the end it all boils down to the reader and his ability to provide the information for the magazine to investigate and publish. If you enjoy reading articles about making fine furniture then write one! If you enjoy reading articles on building your own boat then write one! I am sure you will not be alone for long and there wil be feedback from it just like there is on this forum. I am sure there are many woodoworkers out there who read these articles and think, what a load of ***%£$ I could have told him that, but will not put pen to paper so to speak and write something better! I know myself I have read articles and thought, well my son could have done that better but then ralise that the magazine is trying to cater for the needs of all. When I first started woodworking I needed the advice and guidance of something for my tool purchases and methods of using them and being no internet turned to the magazines. The tool reviews no matter how small may be invaluble to the novice starting out in this new found hobby as will be the article on the candle holder that someone made over the weekend for his auntie Maud! Just because I and many of the readers on here are a little long in the tooth for these projects or have most of the tools that are being reviewed or indeed could never afford the all singing all dancing tasble saw that Norm uses on his show doesn't mean we should decry the article, instead we should embrase it as a lesson that we once many many moons ago were there at the threshold of an exciting new hobby and one day may even have enouugh coffers to afford a really great workshop or be up there among the professionals who can demand high prices for there works of art! I am not biased to any magazine just in case you were wondering and am not adverse to using the internet or this forum. I have gleaned many now tricks and tips from here and have been impressed by the knowledge of it's members. I buy a mag to enlighten me and to learn not to mention the advertisements too. It is not an easy job being an editor and trying to please everyone all of the time and meet deadlines and hope you have the correct format for the coming months readers. Yes woodworkers come and go but mags are here to stay and try what they can to help all woodworkers new and old. Sorry this has been so long guys but I felt I just had to add my input for what it is worth, thanks.


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## mailee (12 May 2006)

Sorry I was so carried away with my post. Welcome back Nick althugh I have to admit I didn't know you had gone?


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## Mike.C (12 May 2006)

Are there any UK woodworking magazines that any member likes?

I personally like GWW and The Woodworker. Yes they both have some faults, but not enough to stop buying them. I also believe that Nick will get there in the end.

Cheers

Mike


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## mailee (12 May 2006)

Yes I too like the woodworker and GWW I also like the router although I haven't seen that on the shelves recently? I do buy magazines even though I don't subscribe to them but only when there is something of interest in them for me. As you state they all have their good and bad points.


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## Neomorph (13 May 2006)

I tend to get most of my woodworking knowledge from the net but do get magazines for one room of the house... the loo.  

What I look for in WH Smiths is a magazine with a decent amount of info in... if it's all adverts and pictures it get's put back on the shelf. I also stay clear of anything american because imperial measurements just tick me off for some reason. It's like I'd love Incra stuff if you could get it properly in metric.

Therefore I don't buy GW that often as I could finish it completely during one trip to the lavvy and end up looking at another from my pile of old mags in the corner (not pervy one either  ). This is why I don't get a subscription as I tend to only buy editions with info I would like to keep.

Another reason I love the net over a mag is because you can get feedback pretty quickly. When I wrote into Garden News they posted my letter in their weekly newspaper in February... after I submitted it in December. Imagine how long it would have been in a monthly mag. :lol:


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## Jarviser (13 May 2006)

I must admit that reading through 5 pages of this post I am in the minority in finding the new GWW the most interesting UK wood mag on the shelves - for _my_ tastes of course. It's a mag you can read in small bites (ok on the lav if that takes your fancy). What made The Woodworker such a masterpiece in the first half of the 20th century was plenty of reader involvement and contribution, advice from experts on a variety of both difficult and mundane problems, and a scattering of simple projects, with the occasional major project once or twice a year (like make your own caravan!). It made its money from mag sales plus just enough adverts to keep it afloat. Today's GWW has all those qualities, _and _an editor who replies to every email with an enthusiasm that puts the other mags in the shade. I think I have used at least one idea or jig from each issue I have received (though the pencil sharpener went in the bin!)
Router mags?? How many different ways are there of cutting a groove anyway?
Nick, welcome back (though I wasn't here 9 months ago) and keep up the good work. My subscription will be repeated.


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## Woodythepecker (13 May 2006)

> Paul Chapman wrote:
> 
> OK, here's another 2p worth.
> 
> ...



I agree that we do not want a magazine full of tests and reviews, but surely we do want a reasonable amount of them in whatever magazine we buy?
After all if we are looking for a particular tool or machine they give us a independent view of what it is like. Just like "Buying Advice and Tool Reviews" do on this website.

Then there are the readers who cannot, for whatever reason, get to the dealers, and so they have to buy everything by mail order. I would have thought that this sort of reader relies on the above advice.

Anyway i prefer F&C, The Woodworker, Woodworkers Journal (USA) and GWW when Mike is finished with it.

Regards

Woody


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## Matt1245 (13 May 2006)

How about joining the market with UK Workshop mag?  

Matt.


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## paulm (13 May 2006)

Am I the only one to find Nick's post, though probably well intentioned, ever so slightly disturbing :shock: 

Having applauded the forum and chosen to return and post after a self imposed boycott is all nice and gracious but perhaps I am bieng oversensitive in finding it all just a tad egotistical, it probably wasn't intended that way.

I don't think that suggesting the forum suppresses a diversity of views, opinions and preferences, even with the well meaning intent of protecting GWW, is any kind of healthy outlook and approach to life and is actually somewhat odd.

Yes, there is competition out there for all businesses, including magazine publishers, but thats just a fact of life and the only way to deal with it is to rise to the challenge and try to be better than the competition or to differentiate your product from theirs in some way.

Trying to suppress or hide criticism isn't the way to go about things, and nor is going off in self imposed exile ! 

The forum members here are a genuine, friendly, welcoming bunch with a lot to say and contribute on a whole host of subjects and I am sure, like myself, would be only too pleased to have some regular prescence here from people as experienced as Nick and anybody else who cares to take the time to join in and contribute, but I am somewhat taken aback by the suggestion that for that, and/or any mention of the forum to be made in GWW, would only happen if we all behave ourselves and pretend that GWW is the only show in town and that it is beyond any constructive criticism!!!

I would humbly suggest Nick that you stay with the forum, influence and be influenced by it in turn, and try to be inclusive rather than defensive, you can't have too many friends even if occasionally they do speak their minds and tell you things you would rather not hear !

For what it is worth, I have been a subscriber to GWW amongst other mags for a couple of years now and have been increasingly feeling of late that I may have grown out of it. The occassional inspirational article from the likes of Philly and Steve :shock: is pretty much all that has prevented me from letting the subs lapse recently, but this months issue in particular, sorry to say, was pretty thin and uninspiring in my honest opinion.......

Paul


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## Mike.C (13 May 2006)

I think that the 'Get Your Bandsaw Perfect' article by Steve (Maskery) was good, with some useful tips, and would be very helpful for someone who has just bought their first bandsaw.

As a novice with a lathe, i also enjoyed the 1600-piece vase that Dave Roberts turned. Of course i realise that many of you are experts, and so may not value this article, but for me it is something i would love to do. 

Cheers

Mike


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## builderchad (13 May 2006)

*As a beginner* I quite like the mix of articles that appear in GWW, few as the projects may be. Speaking in general on projects, though, is it just me or are there far too many for toys? Is toy making that popular? I remember going into Borders a month or two back and just about every magazine on the rack had some toy or another as a project... :roll: 

I pretty much end up buying a copy of each (UK published) magazine every month as there is always something in them that looks like an interesting read. The most interesting articles for me are on techniques. I also like to read the articles on using tools/machines I don't even have because they invariably provide some general insight.

I didn't like F&C at first because it felt like too much of a showcase of work and projects beyond my capabilities, but now that I have gained a tiny bit of knowledge and appreciation I wouldn't miss a month without it even if I won't be doing these projects until I am more accomplished. I now scour through it reading every line and studying every picture to feed my ten-fold thirst in how things are made. SWMBO hates the fact that I can't walk by any furniture or antiques shop now without going in to study the joints and drawer runners on everything!


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## CHJ (13 May 2006)

chisel":8ugk0exu said:


> Am I the only one to find Nick's post, though probably well intentioned, ever so slightly disturbing :shock: ....major snip...
> Paul



No *Paul* you are not, I initially took great exception to the implied censoring of the forum by Nicks post and spent some time trying to compose a measured reply that would not raise too many hackles but could not get myself out of a confrontational mode so did not click the 'submit' button.

You have nailed my sentiments exactly, we may not be a representative group as far as the targeted readership is concerned but I feel that many members are more than skilled enough to match the workmanship and covered content of the magazine.
Coming from a very wide area of trade skills, and in many instances managerial positions as they do they are responsible enough to give measured, professional, opinions on its content.
No one is obliged to agree with them, to ignore them is one thing, but to indicate that they would be better suppressed is disturbing.


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## Alf (14 May 2006)

Paul, nope, definitely not; that's what made me speechless. Like Chas I couldn't find the words to express it as well as you have.

Cheers, Alf


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## tibbs (14 May 2006)

No, Paul, me too - definitely a strange & somewhat worrying thing to say in public - exactly which American magazines does he think GWW is in competition with ? - its not as if GWW is in the same market as FWW is it ? I can't comment on the other US magazine that seems to get mentioned around here (Popular Woodworking) as the only issue I've seen of that was about 10 years ago & it was definitely at the bottom end of the quality scale then, although it sounds like it may have improved over the years since then.

Having said that, I like GWW in its new format tremendously - it was, and still is, the only UK general appeal woodworking magazine that I subscribe to, having subscribed to, and then ditched, most of the others over the years. The other woodworking magazines that I subscribe to (the nearest newsagents that carries woodworking magazines being an hours drive away) are F&C & FWW mainly because they are at the top end of the quality scale & full of work that I can only aspire to at the moment.

Richard


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## Alf (14 May 2006)

Just to cheer Nick up, _deja vu_ across the pond. Ruddy readers, huh? Demanding blighters, the lot of them...

Cheers, Alf


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## mr (14 May 2006)

Strikes me that reading through a thread like this it should be possible to make up a list of things that people think are lacking from any particular publication (other than the projects of the thread title obviously  ). That doesnt seem to be the case here. Will have to start at the top again.


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## MikeW (14 May 2006)

Alf":yidc8x1p said:


> Just to cheer Nick up, _deja vu_ across the pond. Ruddy readers, huh? Demanding blighters, the lot of them...
> 
> Cheers, Alf


Ha, even the generally benign SMC has a thread going concerning FWW right now.

Take care, Mike


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