# AXMINSTER 2006 SHOW SHOCKER



## Philly (28 Nov 2005)

Hi All
Just heard on the grape-vine that there is to be NO Tools 2006 next year! :shock: 
No more details yet, sorry, but this is a definite.  
Hope it had nothing to do with me not spending my usual amount.............. :? 
Philly


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## MikeW (28 Nov 2005)

Philly...you should be ashamed of yourself. I mean, single handedly shutting down a show! :lol: 

Well, I thought there was something wrong in my universe...Philly not having a gloat for a while...and where are these phantom saws???

Take care, Mike


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## Barry Burgess (28 Nov 2005)

Philly I did not know you had such an effect but one of the suppliers told me that their Tool 2005 sales were 15% down on the previous year.


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## devonwoody (29 Nov 2005)

If above turns out to be the decision of Axminster I think you can put the problem down to Fuel and entry costs having some bearing.
Some visitors travel costs must be up over 25% on previous years. 
Anyway I prefer a personal visit to their showrooms which is like an Aladdins cave


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## Alf (29 Nov 2005)

Just heard the same myself, although I was going to check to see it wasn't a misunderstanding; guess I needn't bother. It's a tragedy; the only opportunity to see all the major hand tool movers and shakers in one place - gone.  Not to mention my annual holiday gone down the proverbial.   Darn, it's at times like this I wish I did the lottery - a nice sizeable win and a cry of "let's do the show right here" and we'd be set. Heigh ho.

Depressed, Alf


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## devonwoody (29 Nov 2005)

Cheer up Alf  

Think of the expenses saved means you will more to spend and mail order always accept returns(if reasonable) so you could try out all the brands.


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## Noel (29 Nov 2005)

With Axminster not on in '06 (more likely to be every other year now) there's alway Cologne, Atlanta or Vegas....

Noel, off to cancel the hotel in Exmouth.


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## Martin Brown (29 Nov 2005)

The Atlanta show is the only one that will suit you, in my view. Vegas and Cologne are viewing shows where there is very little to buy. 

Martin


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## tombo (29 Nov 2005)

cologne now theres an idea i doubt it would cost much more to fly there as it did for me to drive to exeter. Vegas would be fun though not much use if i wanted to spend on power tools.


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## tim (29 Nov 2005)

Martin

Can you expand on their reasons for the decision? Who wasn't it working for?

Cheers

Tim


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## martyn2 (29 Nov 2005)

bang go's my excuse to buy tools  yandels it is then i hope :? 

martyn


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## Ham (29 Nov 2005)

This news is something that I think has been coming for a while now. I've been going to their shows since the days when it used to be held in Axminster Guildhall. Over the years the size increased whilst the range of manufacturers (machinery) seemed to get ever smaller. This years show, apart from the quality hand tools, seemed to have run down to more of a DIY level rather than for serious hobbyist and small trader.
Cheers, David


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## Alf (29 Nov 2005)

devonwoody":mpcosuj4 said:


> Think of the expenses saved means you will more to spend and mail order always accept returns(if reasonable) so you could try out all the brands.


And if that was the reason for going, I agree, it wouldn't be much loss.

Cheers, Alf


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## Waka (29 Nov 2005)

This is totally unfair, I vote for the Atlanta show, any other takers.

A few years ago I went to a WW show in Toronto, thats was really big, maybe that's an option?


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## Philly (29 Nov 2005)

Personally, I blame Waka for not going to Axminster this year. :wink: 
Just joking, Tony :wink: 




MikeW":1acop9zy said:


> Well, I thought there was something wrong in my universe...Philly not having a gloat for a while...and where are these phantom saws???


Fear not Mike-gloatage awaits! 8) 
Cheers
Philly


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## Terry Smart (29 Nov 2005)

Quoted from a letter received this morning from Axminster:

'...In view of the lower than anticipated numbers attending and after a great deal of deliberation we have decided to take a break from hosting a show next year, but intend to organise one the year after...'

Personally speaking, we had a good show at Axminster this year but I feel that many of the other shows being held are looking tired and jaded and could do with being held every other year.

I've just cancelled our hotel too for next year!


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## Chris Knight (29 Nov 2005)

This news is a real bummer. I reckon - feeling perhaps a mite cynical here(?) that Axminster's inability to agree terms with the likes of Scheppach just might have had something to do with it.

Personally, I reckon they are nuts to give someone else the chance to leap into the breech. The Alexandra Palace show is a natural to replace it - a big venue in London - which love it or not is rather more central and easier for most than Exeter.

I know the dilemma Axminster face - my spell in the motor industry and calculating the cost/benefit of motorshows taught me that much and having said that, I don't know the first thing about Axminster's thinking and it is their business, I am just sorry I won't be able to meet you lot there next year.

Can we nominate a show where most of us would be happy to turn up?


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## Philly (29 Nov 2005)

Ally Pally is good for me, Chris!
Philly


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## DaveL (29 Nov 2005)

Well this is a bummer. :evil: 
I only managed to get there this year and enjoyed the show, but thinking about it, it was the people that made it for me. Meeting up with so many of you, face to face. Talking with Rob Lee and David Charlesworth. The hand tools where quite well represented but on the normite front I did think it was a bit thin on the ground. 

I went to Ally Pally last year and will be trying to get there next year but it was some what lacking compared to Axminster. I hope somewhere picks up the challenge.


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## Losos (29 Nov 2005)

What a bummer! - I couldn't go this year so I had already pencilled in a trip to Blighty in Nov. '06 - Oh well, have to think about somewhere else. I have heard that the Cologne show is massive with everyone of any significance being there. As some have already said these days you could fly there for less than the cost of petrol to Axminster.


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## Freetochat (29 Nov 2005)

I must admit to not going this year. Unfortunately for me the show was becoming too 'white' and I would prefer to see more of a range of colours!


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## trevtheturner (30 Nov 2005)

Stoneleigh Park (near Coventry) Show next October? Decent venue, pretty central, and nothing white in sight! And good, large and roomy adjoining refreshments area for a meet-up. :wink: 

Cheers,

Trev.


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## AndyBoyd (30 Nov 2005)

Cologne show - can someone enlighten me and send me a URL ?

It's so close to me and we even have a high speed train link.
Plus if there are any other UKWers there I'd be happy to host our very own beerfest
Pity about the Axminster show I have been debating for a few years now of hoping in Easy Jet and coming to see for myself. Well 2007 it will have to be.


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## Martin Brown (30 Nov 2005)

Cologne is entirely the wrong show if you want to replace Axminster, especially if you want to buy. It is a show where manufacturers sell to shops. Some end users turn up however you have to hunt out the interesting stuff. Not sure anyone can just stroll up and get in.

Atlanta would be the best. Great place, loads of interesting kit you don't see here.

Martin


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## Alf (30 Nov 2005)

Sheesh, chaps. I can bearly get a visa to get to Devon. Cologne? Atlanta? Heck, I don't even have a passport! :shock: 

Can I urge any Westcountry members to pencil in the Southwest Forest Wood Fair for the second Saturday (I think) in July? It's not that big, I know, but there are hand tools ancient and modern for sale, DC was there last year, Mike Abbot, etc etc. And it does have the benefit of being on at a slightly more pleasant time of the year. :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## Ham (30 Nov 2005)

Cheer up folks - Yandles are still looking to be running their two shows next year. Tools and the very necessary wood on one free site.
Cheers, David


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## Barry Burgess (30 Nov 2005)

When is the Atlanta show??


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## devonwoody (30 Nov 2005)

Yandles gave me exceptional service this year as well.


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## martyn2 (30 Nov 2005)

I like yandells it was my first time this year and i found it to be realy good ,been back there to get some oak for a table saw mobile base and it was the same frindly service (and the cafe was nice too) so all is not lost and for those visiting the devon for the summer or kent there is always axminster tools ( mind you will miss brimac through) :wink: 

Martyn


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## tim (30 Nov 2005)

Can't help but think that the sales downturn is Axminster's own failing. 

Obviously, I can only speak from my own experience but I went to this with the express intention of either trying products I was interested in buying (with a view to buy if positive) and also to see what deals were on offer.

Most of the Axminster stuff (that I looked at) was only priced as it was in the catalogue (or published offer prices). There weren't enough Axminster demonstrators to go round and those that I came across seemed to lack enthusiasm and excitement - not I must add the same as the sales desk girls and info desk people who couldn't have been better. 

Contrast this with the other stands eg Brimarc, Festool, Chestnut, Bessey etc who were enthusiastic, offering deals and were in general well resourced staff wise.

I don't know if its correct but I imagine its possible that the other traders had a much better show in percentage sales than APTC did.

The other factor is that I think its 'white' brand has dropped markedly in quality over the past three years, coupled with the fact that most 'regulars' will have known about the 'APTC machinery only' focus and it stops being such an exciting draw - hence lower gate numbers.

Greediness and lack of consumer awareness has caused them to fail here. Sadly, its our loss as well.

Cheers

Tim


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## Chris Knight (30 Nov 2005)

I rather agree with you Tim. Of course I am older and wiser and more cynical than when I first came across Axminster but way back then (at least 10 years ago) they had a glamour and excitement that is totally lacking now. The stuff they sold was certainly not the cheapest but it was very good and not easily obtainable elsewhere - often the only alternative was to order from the USA. They appeared never to cut corners on quality and their own stuff was still mostly a gleam in their eye. Then they started to drop the major manufacturers from their catalogue in favour of their own gear (never seeming quite as good or exciting), their QC slipped badly on a number of occasions and suddenly their flyers were indistinguishable from Screwfix.

The shows' pricing policies are a mystery to me. There used to be a 10% discount across the board that got dropped about three years ago - that would have paid at least the transport and quite possibly an overnight stay for many people but now - adding up transport and hotels - the show is just very expensive for most who attend so what is the incentive?? There are not enough demos or other manufacturers to tempt people into making the long trek to Exeter and if they can buy the stuff cheaper off the internet, they'd be nuts to go - right?

This year, I bought no Axminster stuff and only a few things anyway so I was probably the kind of customer they don't need. I did spend on transport, two nights stay in a hotel and enjoyed every minute, mainly because I got to meet a bunch of folk and see stuff, particularly some of the demos that I can't easily see elsewhere. I would be happy to do the same again at any venue really and a starting to think seriously about Atlanta!


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## Newbie_Neil (30 Nov 2005)

Barry Burgess":1uj7b8lr said:


> When is the Atlanta show??



IIRC late September.

Cheers
Neil


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## Freetochat (30 Nov 2005)

I know this is a little off topic, but when I visit a show, it is because I want to compare products from different suppliers. If the supplier variety is not there I'm not able to do this. Given the very few retail outlets that stock and display, very soon buying by picture is all that will be left?


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## Argee (30 Nov 2005)

I'm right in agreement with *Tim* and echo *Freetochat*'s sentiments too. For me, Axminster's shows peaked at Shepton Mallet. The move to Exeter was the start of a slippery slope, as it appeared that venue costs, etc. crippled any chance of show pricing. 

Why would anyone travel hundreds of miles to buy something they could get delivered for the same price? The answer might be "to try/touch/compare" - but as the options for comparison diminish, interest in attending takes the same route (for me, at least). 

I went to Exeter last year, but was so immediately disappointed that I knew I wouldn't go again. Like others, I think that Ally Pally is a better bet, but it will have to pull its socks up to get a "best show" vote from me - last year I couldn't even buy a gallon of glue - there were only DIY-size containers on sale.

I don't expect much - oh, hang on - yes, I do! 

Ray.


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## Martin Brown (30 Nov 2005)

These comments are made from a supplier to Axminster, however I do believe I have done enough shows to know I have some objectivity left.

I didn't hear one single negative comment about the show whilst I was there. To be fair we were quite busy with many customers.

Frankly we (consumers/suppliers) are lucky that the biggest consumer show of it's type in Europe is in the UK. It may change it's frequency however it is a good woodworking show for many consumers. I know the Axminster team work hard to make it an interesting show.

It may be a contradiction that the market leading machinery supplier runs the biggest show however there are many such contradictions in commerce. Why are the other show so much smaller? Probably because Axminster have done such a good job.

I am obliged to comment too on the Axminster staff. Some of the comments above do not reflect my experience. I may be a supplier, however it is clear by the way you see the same APTC faces every year that they are a good employer with good people.

Martin


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## Noel (30 Nov 2005)

Overall I enjoyed the show. Sure, from a tool brand point of view there wasn't as much there as in Shepton Mallet days but it was just as big although obviously more white as each year passes.
Personally I don't go to shows to buy, although if the notion takes me and the right deal can be struck deals are done.
Bear in mind that I (and 4 hangers on) have to fly there, hire a car, book a hotel for 2 or 3 nights, feed and entertain (there was a lot of that..) ourselves and maybe buy the odd tool etc so it was a big commitment time-wise, not to mention the financial side of things.
The show, more-so the occasion, was time well spent. It was well organised, all the staff were more than friendly and were all very helpful. Considering that standing on your feet for 3 days answering questions from punters can be very taxing I reckon the exhibitors and staff did a find job.
As previous posts have alluded to it's more than touchy feely retail therapy, it's meeting people, discussing tool related and other issues that can never be done over the phone or through email.
Granted, it would be better if there was a wider selection of manufacturers but for what was there and for the people that were there it was a worthwhile trip.
I've been to Ally Pally a couple of times and frankly would not return. Too small, little if any manufacturer representation, few if any demonstrations and too many Saturday morning market type of stalls. Glasgow last year was small but enjoyable and have yet to visit D & M at Kempton. The only other show I've visited was Woodcut at Wembley some years ago and it was excellent. By most accounts Harrogate and Stoneleigh were disappointing. Perhaps next year all the shows should get together and have one major event in an accessible part of the UK and all the manufacturers and importers present. Guess the exhibition organizers mightn't be too happy but it would certainly be something I'd attend.

End of ramble

Noel


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## tim (30 Nov 2005)

Martin Brown":2jwmzxz4 said:


> I am obliged to comment too on the Axminster staff. Some of the comments above do not reflect my experience. I may be a supplier, however it is clear by the way you see the same APTC faces every year that they are a good employer with good people.



Having looked back through the thread, it appears that I was the only one to mention Axminster staff so it seems that I may have been misinterpreted. For clarity, I do not dispute your points, in fact, I have never had anything but praise for sales and technical staff at Axminster when dealing with them in the past. The very fact that the sales girls remembered me from last year and the concerned call I received out of hours to make sure that I had got my replacment ticket for one lost in the post is enough to keep me loyal through any minor difficulties that may arise from time to time (although I am struggling to think of any). 

I buy regularly from them (and will continue to do so) - I placed an order this week for some stuff

However, as a comparison to other companies that were exhibiting, some of the staff managing the APTC stands that I asked questions to would reply with 'don't know' rather than 'don't know but I'll find out' which was the standard on other stands I dealt with. At a show branded with their name where their products are dominant I do think that this was a shame.

You may not have heard any negative comments Martin (and I am not surprised given what was going on in your area!) but most conversations I had or heard were peppered with 'not as good as last year; not enough big manufacturers etc etc. 

Cheers

Tim


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## ProShop (30 Nov 2005)

I've never been to the Axminster show so I can't comment. I nearly went this year but the time & cost for me made it unrealistic. It's a hell of a long way from here. 
But I have been to Stoneleigh for the past 2 years and the Harrogate show for the same 2 years. 

When I first went to Stoneleigh I liked it for the demo's and exhibits which were to an incredibly high standard, but I found the tools etc disappointing like others have mentioned and there were also a few empty stands and spaces. 
When I went this year there were MORE empty stands and floor space which was very noticable. At Harrogate it was the same story but not quite as bad as Stoneliegh there were more resellers this year. 
Certainly Stoneleigh IMHO is in decline and to a lesser extent is Harrogate. 

I like Harrogate for the excellent demos and exhibits from the various woodworking clubs and colleges. I went to the Ally Pally also this year and was suprised with it being in London how small it was and it lacked big manufacturers etc. 

Which brings me to the conclusion that woodworking is in decline hence the low attendance figure mentioned. But this doesn't fit with related woodworking press announcements that DIY and woodworking in general is on an all time high in relation to purchases and enquires at Colleges etc. 

My own personal view here is that the high fees being asked by the various exhibition venues and by the event organizers is hurting the various traders who wish to book stall space. And the logistical costs of getting their displays setup (which must be considerable for some). 

This was brought home to me at Harrogate when I learned from very reliable sources what it cost 4 different companies in floor space, it was certainly an eye opener/popper/shock (take your pick). 

I noticed some members posting about the lack of show offers etc and this may well be the reason why there aren't many show deals anymore.

But on a brighter note there's the big one next year WOODMEX 2006
And Atlanta, can we get a block booking on admission & flights ?   Better book a cargo flight for the return trip though


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## Terry Smart (1 Dec 2005)

I'd like to join Martin by standing up for Axminster too...

(I'd also like to apologise for this being a little disjointed; I've been interrupted several times whilst writing this and I think it shows!)

Shows have been on a downward spiral this year, and my feeling is that attendance has been down at all of the shows I've been to (not that the organisers would admit it); I felt that the exception to this was the Axminster show which seemed to be well supported. However, a number of the posts in this thread say 'I didn't go this year' and a show doesn't work without customers! Of course, there needs to be something there for the customers to look at, it's a vicious circle but I'd have thought that there is enough at this show to keep most people interested.

Let's not forget, whatever it is called, this is the _Axminster _show we are talking about and should be seen as an extension of their shop. It's not cynical to say that they hold the show for two main reasons; to make money and to promote their brand, so they don't have to invite other manufacturers to the show; there are plenty of other shows for other manufacturers after all, it's not like a monopoly with no other option.

A point was made that the number of demonstrators has dropped, but there is apparently a reason for this which, if what I've heard is true (and it came from a good source) I don't blame Axminster for making this decision. However, I'd still reckon that this show has the best choice of demonstrators of any show in the UK.

Ultimately I'm sure this is a financial decision; running a show of this size must be a very expensive operation and the staff costs (I'm not sure but I'd reckon a lot of the people there are drafted in just for the show) alone must be huge.
Personally, I don't go to shows looking for bargains; I want to look at things, handle them, try them, ask questions about them etc. If a company can offer a huge discount at a show having spent a small fortune to be there (stand costs, electrics, hotels etc) I'd have to wonder why they can't offer that price all year round when they don't have those costs!

On the subject of 'show offers'... we don't give them for one simple reason. If we cut our prices it shows a lack of support for our stockists who are trying to make a living all year from selling our products and others. I know that shops wouldn't miss the sale of the odd bottle of polish here and there, but if everyone at shows tried to encourage sales at shows by giving money off then shops won't stock these products because they can't sell them. Many shops would close, further limiting choice and imagine running out of a product halfway through a job and being unable to buy any more until the next show, which could be months away!

As I've said earlier in this thread, it woudn't hurt for some shows to be held every other year; there are more than enough shows held during the year and surely there can't be new things to see at all of them?


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## Barry Burgess (1 Dec 2005)

I feel that the people at Axminster have got it wrong - what has changed is that the internet now allows us to view the technical details and pictures of products and what we want is to toch & feel and better still to use the tools - at least the people demonstrating should be users of the product. At the D&M show I got my hands on two nail guns and a number of drill/drivers to use. 
There were two outside stands that encouraged you to use their kit 
The D&M show lacked the number of suppliers that were at Axminster. 
Most people at Axminster show wanted to talk about their product but not to demonstart them - I can read this detail on the internet


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## tim (1 Dec 2005)

Terry/ Martin: the salient point here is that most of us are disappointed that there is no show next year!

What we are trying to do in this thread is post rationalise APTC's decision and this will naturally show up the negatives. I don't think that many folk are actually having a go at Axminster.

Cheers

Tim


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## Woodythepecker (1 Dec 2005)

> Terry Smart wrote:
> 
> Personally, i don't go to shows looking for bargains



Come on Terry, everyone wants a bargain and i would bet that (if not all) most people that attend these shows go to them partly because, in the past at least, you used to get "Show specials" You only have to look through past posts to see time and time again. "I came away with some great bargains", "I am thinking about attending the so and so show this year, are there usually and discounts/bargains to be had?



> Terry Smart wrote:
> 
> I want to look at things, handle them, try them, ask questions about them etc. If a company can offer a huge discount at a show having spent a small forture to be there (stand costs, electrics, hotels etc) I'd have to wonder why they can't offer that price all year round when they don't have those costs!



Yes i agree that visitors want to look, try, and ask questions about the product, but this does not mean that they do not want a discount too. To say that if they give us a discount at the show you would expect them to sell the product at that price all year round, is a bit much. In my eyes they give a discount to invest in the future, with the hope that if they give me a discount they will recoup this when i shop with them again and again. If i am given a discount, i certainly do not for one moment think that i am going to get the product for this price away from the show.



> Terry Smart wrote:
> 
> On the subject of "show offers"... we don't give them for one simple reason. If we cut our prices it shows a lack of support for out stockists who are trying to make a living all year from selling our products and others. I know that shops wouldn't miss the sale of the odd bottle of polish here and there, but if everyone at the shows tried to encourage sales at shows by giving money off then shops won't stock these products because they can't sell them. Many shopd would close, further limiting choice and imagine running out of a product halfway through a job and be unable to buy any more until the next show, which could be months away!



Terry if these shops rely on the small number of sales made at these shows then i do not know how they stay in business anyway. The sales made at these shows is a drop in the ocean compared to the sales made at these shops or by mail order.
You could also say that if you knock £2 off a £10 tin of varnish to a number of show visitors, who have never used your product before, you are keeping these shops open, when the people who loved your varnish, buy it again from your stockists, instead of their previous brand.

Getting back to the subject of this thread. although we probably never will, i for one would like to find out the real reason for Axminster not having a show next year.
Maybe i am missing something but i always tought that one of the main reasons for these shows was to promote their wares to both pro and diy woodworkers.

Regards

Woody


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## Alf (1 Dec 2005)

I'm certainly not wanting to give the impression that I blame Axminster. I understand they have their reasons, profits have to be made and so forth. I'm not angry, just grieved. But maybe in our disappointment we might actually come up with some constructive stuff that might help Axminster, and others, make shows better and more profitable in the future. I think we'd all agree that's in everyone's interests, isn't it? Nobody wants disappointing shows. 

I think Barry's on the money - in these days of internet shopping and proper tool shops being few and far between, many people go to shows in order to _try_ stuff, and there simply wasn't enough of that. Martin's cottoned on to this with the Veritas kit and practically thrusts planes into people's hands to try these days! :lol: That's what you want. Did anyone get any of the power lot proffering an impact driver or something and saying "have a go"? I didn't, but then I'm a dubious example 'cos of the SWMBO effect. :roll: If show offers aren't an option, and I can understand the reasons why (although it doesn't seem to apply to LN for some reason?), then you have to provide other lures to us fickle woodworkers.

As far as Axminster's own stuff goes, which would seem to be the deal breaker as to whether they do the show or not, I simply don't understand where they're going. The Perform stuff seems to be pretty good value for money by and large, but the quality of the White stuff seems all over the place. I didn't scour _every_ inch of _every_ Axminster stand, but no opportunity to try anything seemed visible. You couldn't pass the Hitachi stand (for example) without seeing a whole load of things to pick up and fondle - _without having to go and look for it_. As for the "Victor" hand tool brand, it was scattered all over the place between the various manufacturers and no sign of the fancy new chisels at all. I only saw the gouges 'cos the Henry Taylor fellow directed my attention to them. Is it any surprise if no-one buys? ](*,)

And despite all that, it's still not that I'm having a go at Axminster. Well okay, so maybe I am a bit...  But it's like with magazines; it's 'cos I care. If these folks make a pig's ear of things they'll go broke and cease to be - and _we'll_ lose out, dammit! And oh look, we already are. 

Cheers, Alf

Who bought one item from L-N and one Sorby item from Ashley Iles. The first had show discount, the second Axminster has stopped stocking... :| Draw your own conclusions.


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## Newbie_Neil (1 Dec 2005)

I've just sent an email to the people organising Woodex to ask if they could make the Sunday open to everybody. We can but ask.

Let's see what comes back.

Cheers
Neil


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## ProShop (1 Dec 2005)

Neil,
Just apply for a pass, it's that simple


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## tim (1 Dec 2005)

Alf":3om0a434 said:


> we might actually come up with some constructive stuff that might help Axminster, and others, make shows better and more profitable in the future



What we need to know is what APTC's objectives were. If for example, it was simply a profit increasing exercise then a sale would have been more effective and they would be quite right to bin the shows. 

However, I bet they won't tell us!

Isn't it odd that they of all suppliers have not (to my knowledge) ever posted here.

Cheers

Tim


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## beech1948 (1 Dec 2005)

Hi all,

Now for the daft idea.

Axminster show was in my view poor. Axminster provided no opportunity to try stuff, provided no coherent arrangement of equipment and restricted the equipment on show to mainly their own brand. A poor brand that is too..the white stuff I mean.

The idea is that UK Workshop should hold a show at which we can get any and all manufacturers to attend.

Is it feasible..probably. I for one would volunteer to put my 20 years of marketing knowledge in the pot to get this up and away.

Imagine. Axminster. D&M, Dick, Delta, Electra Bewckum, Dewalt etc etc + the woodyards all at the same venue.

Yes Please.
regards
alan


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## Gill (1 Dec 2005)

I don't think it's such a daft idea, Alan. For some time I've been reflecting on the 'Murrican _picnic_ concept; I'm sure some of our overseas members will be able to clarify further, but as I understand it, a group of enthusiasts get together at a public show to demonstrate their tools and techniques. There are also opportunities to sell products to the general public. These picnics are particularly popular amongst scrollers.

Whilst it would be impractically expensive for us to book a large venue, perhaps it might be possible to book a local community hall, arts centre or some such venue and have our own general woodworking picnic? (Some of the 'Murrican picnics are even held in enthuiasts' gardens!) Perhaps we could arrange for manufacturers to hold demonstrations too.

Gill


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## Terry Smart (1 Dec 2005)

Hi Woody

I think you missed some of the points I was trying to make, probably because I wasn't able to to put them as intelligently as I intended. (intelligent... me?)


Woody wrote:


> Come on Terry, everyone wants a bargain



Well of course, everyone likes a bargain, or at least to think they've got one, but I often see shows (and I'm not really talking woodworking here) as a chance to see and buy things I can't get anywhere else. If I get a bargain then great, but I don't see it as an automatic right or the main reason for going to the show.

Woody wrote



> In my eyes they give a discount to invest in the future



One of the main reasons we do shows is to put our product in front of people who haven't seen it before and certainly we're hoping that they will be suitably impressed to buy it again. We like to think our products are good quality, reallistically priced and good value and that a discount isn't necessary.

Woody wrote:



> you are keeping these shops open, when the people who loved your varnish, buy it again from your stockists, instead of their previous brand.



This was the point I was trying to make; we support our stockists by not selling direct (ie mail order etc) other than at shows. When we do sell at shows we keep pretty much to RRP so that sometimes people come to the stand and decide to buy from their local shop anyway as it's the same price! We don't mind because we're still selling the product, via the stockist! This also deters people from delaying buying from their local shop (if they are lucky enough to still have one) so that they can buy cheaply at a show.


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## Alf (1 Dec 2005)

Alan,

Would it not be a case of walking before we can run? :| We've never had _any_ sort of UK Workshop only get together, after all. Not so much as a meet up at one member's workshop, although the Dorset Musky-beers have come closest with 3 in one spot IIRC. I agree, it's a lovely thought having all those suppliers in one place, but someone'd probably have to give up their life and mortage their home to achieve it...  I'd absolutely love to be proved wrong of course.

Cheers, Alf


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## tim (1 Dec 2005)

Alan

I like your style and its too easy to only come up with the reasons for not doing it but I think that even with a 100% turnout of all members we would only muster 1200 people. I don't know what the average show gate is but I would have thought it would be considerably more than that.

Cheers

Tim


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## TC (1 Dec 2005)

Newbie_Neil":1snwvyg9 said:


> I've just sent an email to the people organising Woodex to ask if they could make the Sunday open to everybody. We can but ask.
> 
> Let's see what comes back.
> 
> ...



Ijust hope that Woodmex say NO!

I've been in the trade for 40 years, and the reason that I don't go to Axminster, Stoneleigh ect, is because the last thing that I want to have to do is fight my way through umpteen DIY,ers, with wives and kids in tow, just getting in the bloody way!, 

Woodmex is a TRADE show, and, hopefully, it will stay that way.

If you want "bargains", go to your nearest DIY shed, and, no, I don't go to those places, either.

How many of you that have the words "furniture maker"in your avatar actually are in the trade? and how many are just dreamers?

If its not your trade,ie, your main source of income, why not say what your real job is?

TC


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## ProShop (1 Dec 2005)

Woodmex 2006 is advertising itself as being open to the Trade & Public.


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## wizer (1 Dec 2005)

TC the 'Furniture Maker' title is not put there by the user. It is a generic forum setting for users above a certain post count


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## woodshavings (1 Dec 2005)

TC":280gi4yo said:


> Newbie_Neil":280gi4yo said:
> 
> 
> > I've just sent an email to the people organising Woodex to ask if they could make the Sunday open to everybody.
> ...



You're the real spirit of the Forum aren't you TC .. if you bothered to read Neil's post you may of noticed that he was asking for the Sunday to be open to the public, not the rest of your precious trade days.

If you dont go to the Axminster shows etc, how do you know they full of DIY ers with wives and kids in tow?

Also, you clearly don't understand how the avatar titles are generated - they are not under our control.


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## Freetochat (1 Dec 2005)

TC - You obviously haven't heard the saying from acorns grow oak trees. You don't mentioned your employment, but for many their aspiration is to make their woodwork their main form of income. You only have to see the posts from people seeking advice on becoming self-employed.

In any case, if I want to go and see available machinery under one roof, why should I be excluded. And to declare my position, 50% of my income is derived from woodwork.


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

tim":1rlhfzpr said:


> The very fact that the sales girls remembered me from last year.........



Oh yeah! :?: :?: :?: :wink: :lol: 

Cheers,

Trev.


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

TC,

Having read your post I, for one, am just glad that you don't grace us with your presence and get in the way at Axminster, Stoneleigh, etc., shows.

And BTW, these Forums welcome people from all walks of life with the common interest of woodworking, be they full-time, part-time, trade, professional, amateur or hobby workers, or tool specialists, and we have many of each covering all aspects of woodworking, giving valuable and varied, friendly and polite advice and opinions. We also have several very helpful manufacturing/retailing contributors. And we respect others and their contributions.

Trev.


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## Newbie_Neil (2 Dec 2005)

Hi TC



TC":30c2m98l said:


> Ijust hope that Woodmex say NO!



I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I think I understand your reasons.



TC":30c2m98l said:


> How many of you that have the words "furniture maker"in your avatar actually are in the trade? and how many are just dreamers? If its not your trade,ie, your main source of income, why not say what your real job is?



The description against the avatar is handled automatically by the system, it is nothing to do with a person's occupation. You have forum newbie against yours as, iirc, you have less than fifty posts.

The more that members contribute, in the way of posts, the higher up the "ladder" they rise in terms of title.

If you want a woodworking forum where most people are employed in the trade, then I would recommend Screwfix. They are very helpful and knowledgeable.

http://www.screwfix.com/talk/forum.jspa?forumID=22

Neil


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## devonwoody (2 Dec 2005)

I cant see that there should be any problem :shock: 

We have a massive carboot sale regularly at the Newton Abbot racecourse with ample parking and thousands attending and participating.

So if the manufacturers come down to Newton racecourse, Devon, with a marquee and show their wares you could have a weekly show. Or perhaps some organised event. 

Could even suit some enterprising entrepreneur perhaps.


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## dedee (2 Dec 2005)

You've got to have a dream 
If you don't have a dream 
How you gonna have a dream come true?

Andy


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## Alf (2 Dec 2005)

Someone get Andy his pills... :lol:


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## dedee (2 Dec 2005)

What the world needs is more happy talking.

Andy


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## martyn2 (2 Dec 2005)

the trouble is he has got his pills :shock: 

martyn


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## cambournepete (2 Dec 2005)

Alf":239vdtot said:


> I Did anyone get any of the power lot proffering an impact driver or something and saying "have a go"?



I did - I tried 1 Metabo and 3 Festool sanders before getting the Metabo at a good, if not great price. 
Like all people I like to find bargains, but I'd rather get the product I want at a reasonable price rather than something not quite what I want just because it was a bargain...

I also enjoyed the show - but maybe if I hadn't been able to try what I was after I wouldn't have so much.

What is a little annoying is that the young lad who took my money for a Lie-Nielsen (Glenn-Drake) TiteMark said I'd have it in a week - the lovely Amanda on the Axminter telephone apologised profusely and said Christmas was more likely. If the lad didn't know why couldn't he say so... :roll: 

Pete


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## Woodythepecker (2 Dec 2005)

> TC wrote;
> 
> I've been in the trade for 40 years, and the reason that i don't go to Axminster, Stoneleigh etc, is because the last thing that i want to have to do is fight my way through umpteen DIY.ers, with wives and kids in tow, just getting in the bloody way!



Don't be an silly person all your life. Why shouldn't umpteen DIY'ers have a chance to see what the trade does for one Sunday?

I'm in the trade and i can tell you the so called DIY'ers on this website, have answered more questions and given me more advice than any other tradesmen on any other site i have been too. So i would be only to willing to fight my through them. No thats wrong, i wouldn't be fighting my way through, i would be stopping to have a chat and put a face to their name.

Lighten up mate their not a bad bunch.

Regards

Woody


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## andrewm (2 Dec 2005)

TC":20lttox2 said:


> How many of you that have the words "furniture maker"in your avatar actually are in the trade? and how many are just dreamers?
> TC



TC,

When you have been on these forums for a little longer you will start to realise that the description on the avatars is related to the number of posts, not some personal description of one's abilities. You may also start to realise that there are some people here who turn out work that is at least as good as most professionals even though they are 'not in the trade'. In many cases probably better because they do not have the constraints of having to earn a living from it.

Andrew


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## ike (2 Dec 2005)

Andy wrote:



> that is at least as good as most professionals



Too right Andy. I've seen many times the work of 'professionals' (ie. the manual trades) that leaves a great deal to be desired. After all the term only means that one makes ones living out of a particular activity, not that the results meet high standards. 

IME, trade 'professionals' can be unhelpful, even downright patronizing sometimes, to others they regard as not being 'in the know', or 'not one of us'. 

In stark contrast to the ethos on this forum, TC, so stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

Ike


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## Alf (2 Dec 2005)

Aww, guys. I was so proud of you all being able to explain the ethos of this forum without resorting to name-calling, and you go and let me down! I'm sure TC has got the gist by now; let him slink quietly into a corner and muse on the error of his ways in peace. And please, please, please can we avoid the pro/am divide? There is no "us" and "them"; we're all simply woodworkers on here.

Cheers, Alf


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## frank (2 Dec 2005)

alf its not fair this lot have just spoilt it for me  i thought i was a furniture maker slowly working my way to becoming a master furniture maker    and now i am just a d i y er    gill can i go in the bunker to have a good cry :-({|= :-({|= sad music playing in the background .sniff sniff 

frank


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## Gill (2 Dec 2005)

There, there, Frank. If it's any consolation, I'm a master furniture maker despite having only ever made one piece of furniture :lol:.

I don't mind being called an amateur; I wouldn't mind being called semi-pro and it wouldn't bother me if I was a professional or not. Just don't call me a 'DIYer' :x - I'm a woodworker and my scrolling is as valid in that context as the works of anyone on this forum.

Gill


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

Wandering a bit off topic I know, but seeing as the subject has been raised.......

So now I'm wondering, just what is a DIYer? See, I do turning, not always from wood, and other forms of woodwork, from which I derive a lot of pleasure in developing my skills and satisfaction from producing the end result. I also do much work around my home, equally valid, which would probably be classed as 'DIY' but which invariable involves using woodworking and other skills to produce a result better than that which might be achieved by a time-constrained 'tradesman'.

During a recent project, as well as rectifying previous faults and poor workmanship left by tradesmen (and, of course, I do understand that there are very good tradesmen as well as poor ones), I had to use both woodworking hand tools and machinery, as well as masonry, plastering, leccy and decorating tools. Some careful measuring and marking out was called for and at one stage I had to cut coving and skirting at angles of 67.5 and 68.5 degrees to achieve a good fit.

Anyway, as a DIY effort, I transformed this:







and this (carefully trying to avoid the rogues gallery):






into this:






and this:






So, really can see nowt wrong with a bit of DIY, and I don't mind being called a DIYer, along with of all the other things I'm called from time to time! :wink: (It looks better now that the pictures are hung and the other bits and bobs are in place. Next is to make a central coffee table together with some matching side tables).

Cheers,

Trev. - the DIY woodturning woodworker.


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## Gill (2 Dec 2005)

I wasn't taking a pop at DIYers, Trev - I appreciate what is involved, being up to my eyeballs in that sort of stuff right now myself. I just thought it rather patronising and condescending to use the term in such a context. To my mind, it was a bit like comparing a charcutier to a butcher, or a racing driver to a moped rider.

By the way, the room looks good . You'll soon have more time to spend in the workshop  .

Gill

PS Go on, Chas ... that looks like a candidate for the Rogues Gallery  .


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

Gill":3dq08fqm said:


> I wasn't taking a pop at DIYers, Trev



Of course not Gill, and I never assumed for one moment that you were. :wink: 'Pologies if I gave that impression.  And I do agree with you!  

Just saw the mention of 'DIYer' as an 'in' to show off a little job that I ended up quite pleased with (having used a few woodworking skills, of course)!   

Good luck with the kitchen - I reckon that's one of the worst to have to do because it is one that you cannot do without using daily along the way.

Cheers,

Trev.


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## frank (2 Dec 2005)

trev you covered up that wooden floor with a carpet [-X [-X did you splash some paint on it when you painted the ceiling   :lol: to help when you next paint a ceiling stick the roller on a brush pole and show the wife how easy it is to do,then leave her to do it \/ \/ \/ =D> =D> 

frank


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

frank":1t3azlu7 said:


> trev you covered up that wooden floor with a carpet [-X [-X did you splash some paint on it when you painted the ceiling   :lol:



I know, it looks bad doesn't it? We inherited that floor, and if you had seen it close up you would have seen why it had to be carpeted. As you can see, it was made up of those small oak blocks, laid in 'squares' of five at a time. Unfortunately, it had been appallingly laid - much of it was loose and there were many 'squares' out of alignment and with quite large gaps, some as much as 3-4mm, all over the place. It was awful!! The choice was either to get a garden spade and shovel up the lot, or leave it as a bit of extra insulation over the concrete base - so we left it.

I originally suggested that the room would make a decent, light workshop - but I got a bit of resistance to that idea! :roll: :roll: 

I do have a roller extension pole, but daren't let LOML loose with that. She is one of those who suddenly turns up after much time has been spent on all the preparation and says, "Oh, can I help with some painting?' :roll: So I let her do the skirting boards. :twisted: 

Cheers,

Trev.


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## CHJ (2 Dec 2005)

Gill":3ss77y89 said:


> ...snip...
> PS Go on, Chas ... that looks like a candidate for the Rogues Gallery  .



Unfortunately *Gill*, *Trevor* has taken the precaution of compressing the image to the point that it is difficult to blow up adequately; in the iterests of keeping the file size down of course  but being as you prompted :twisted: 

But one of these days.....


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## trevtheturner (2 Dec 2005)

Exactly, *Chas*. :lol: 

But, one day? ........... well, you never know.

Cheers,

Trev.


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## tim (3 Dec 2005)

What you can't see in the pic are Trev's massive stacked heels which allow him to paint the ceiling like that. Otherwise he is king of the skirting boards.

Cheers

Tim


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## trevtheturner (3 Dec 2005)




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## tim (3 Dec 2005)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Woodythepecker (3 Dec 2005)

Alf, Gill, Andy, Ike,

If my mention of diyer offended you or any one else for that matter then i can only apologize. In my defence, my description was "So called diy'ers"
which to me meant in my reply to TC "You are calling them diy'ers no one else"

When i read his post i just saw red, because it came across to me that as a member he does not mind chatting to other members and gaining any advice they may give him, but other then that he does not want to know us. He thinks that he is head and shoulders above everyone else.



> TC wrote:
> 
> How many of you that have the words "furniture makers" in your avatar actually are in the trade and HOW MANY ARE JUST DREAMERS?
> 
> If its not your trade, ie, your main source of income, why not say what your real job is?



To me this was just prue arrogance, and i had to reply.

As Ike said there are many non paid pros on this website who's projects put paid pros work to shame.

Regards

Woody


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## trevtheturner (3 Dec 2005)

Hi Woody,

I, for one, have certainly not been offended by anything you have said. In fact everybody seems to have reacted generally in the same vein to the original offending post, by taking the opportunity to extol the credibility of UKW members and demonstrate our 'togetherness' whatever we do.

So, all things considered, an overall good, positive really, I reckon. :wink: 

Cheers,

Trev.


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## ike (3 Dec 2005)

Woody wrote:



> If my mention of diyer offended you



Um, I wasn't even aware you'd said anything that might have offended me.  

Ike


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## ike (3 Dec 2005)

Alf wrote (extracted):



> Aww, guys. I was so proud of you all being able to explain the ethos of this forum without resorting to name-calling,



I haven't read of TC being called anything but TC, but I think you may be responding to my post in particular? Well sorry but no apology I'm afraid, cos I still felt better for saying it. :wink:  

cheers,

Ike


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## Woodythepecker (3 Dec 2005)

Trev, Ike, i suppose that i am being a bit paranoid. It's just that you all seemed so upset, and rightly so, at being called diy'ers by TC because he gets paid for his woodworking that i thought some of it was directed at me.

Regards

Woody


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## Newbie_Neil (3 Dec 2005)

ike":3nculum9 said:


> I haven't read of TC being called anything but TC.....



Perhaps this is what Alf was referring to?



> TC wrote; I've been in the trade for 40 years, ......





Woodythepecker":3nculum9 said:


> Don't be an silly person all your life.





Alf":3nculum9 said:


> Aww, guys. I was so proud of you all being able to explain the ethos of this forum without resorting to name-calling,




Cheers
Neil


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## Alf (3 Dec 2005)

Thank you, Neil. I also felt "stick that in your pipe and smoke it" was a _little_ bit off... But overall, very restrained, folks. I applaud you *all*. =D> 

Cheers, Alf


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## Gill (3 Dec 2005)

It's nice to know we're all still friends. There was only one post that really irritated me and I realise that Woody's comments were aimed at rebutting it.

I think there's only one soldier who's out of step on this parade; it's not the rest of the regiment.

Gill


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## ike (3 Dec 2005)

Well, it's nice to come home, find the dust has settled so let's relax in front of the fire with our favourite tipple eh?

cheers everyone, 8) 

Ike


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## Newbie_Neil (3 Dec 2005)

Hi Alf



Alf":1a4r38ce said:


> Thank you, Neil.



You're very welcome.

Hi _*all*_



Alf":1a4r38ce said:


> But overall, very restrained, folks. I applaud you _*all*_



I'd like to second that.

Cheers
Neil


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## frank (3 Dec 2005)

trev you smoothy you letting the loyl get down on her knees to paint the skirting O O 8) 

tim trevs a big lad and the ceiling is about 7ft high, going by the height of the door :wink: 

frank


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## trevtheturner (3 Dec 2005)

As it happens, Frank, she did a good job, too.  

Oh, and I don't mind Tim taking the p...
I'm just biding my time............... :wink: :lol: :lol: 

Cheers,

Trev


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## Losos (3 Dec 2005)

Woody - As many have said, no offence taken, I'm glad to see someone respond quickly with what turns out to be the 'general opinion' of this board. Like Gill said, only one person out of step  
Yes, I've also found out that the Cologne show is mainly aimed at retailers / importers. Will be interesting to see what the UKW favorite is for next year, perhaps someone could start a poll. I'm not techinical enough to do that :wink:


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## Losos (3 Dec 2005)

BTW at what number of posts do I move from 'woodworker' to 'master cabinet maker' ?? (I've been threatning to let SWIMBO look in on this forum but might wait 'till the majic 'promotion' occurs :wink: )


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## tim (4 Dec 2005)

trevtheturner":1f7ci3ep said:


> Oh, and I don't mind Tim taking the p...
> I'm just biding my time............... :wink: :lol: :lol:



as if you don't have enough ammo already...



frank":1f7ci3ep said:


> tim trevs a big lad and the ceiling is about 7ft high, going by the height of the door



I know!!! see above


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## trevtheturner (4 Dec 2005)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:


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