# Japanese Chisels



## Glynne (17 May 2013)

Despite having a set of LN bevel edge chisels (which I'm really pleased with), I'm still fascinated by Japanese chisels and would be really interested in views as to how good / bad they are, what tasks they are better suited to and which of the different types are the best for say cabinet work, paring etc.? 
I did have a look at the previous reviews and could only see one review from 2004 so with their greater availability today, any thoughts please? 

Thank you, 

Glynne


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## Jacob (17 May 2013)

Go on just buy them, we know you want to, why ask? :lol: 
They won't make the slightest difference to your woodwork of course.
Apparently they have a more pronounced hollow on the face, as compared to the barely visible concavity common with western chisels. 
Don't make the mistake of trying to remove this by flattening and polishing, which is what some new owners of western chisels try to do, believe it or not!


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## Glynne (17 May 2013)

That's not the greatest help Jacob - I want to be talked out of buying them not encouraged!
I'm obviously very transparent, no wonder I never get away with sneaking new tools into the house.


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## Jacob (17 May 2013)

What about buying some wood instead? Easier to sneak in - if caught you just mutter something about "shelves" and doors will be opened!


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## Corneel (17 May 2013)

I am very happy with my small set of Koyamaichi chisels, purchased from "tools form Japan". At the moment the Yen has a favourable rate, so now is the time...

Japanese chisels come in all qualities and price categories. The trick is to find good ones at a reasonable price. The good ones are made from very simple carbon steel, with a soft backing and are quite hard without the tendency to chip. The cheaper ones are nothing special when compared to western chisels, the expensive ones are especially very expensive.

I didn't buy a set, I choose some sizes I use often plus one wide chisel for pairing. I didn't get any of the special options to keep the price down, apart from the special grind. They are grinded in a trapezoid shape without lands, so it is easier to reach into corners.

They held an edge for a long time when I was chopping a lot of dovetails in Jatoba. They certainly performed better then my vintage chisels. I have no idea if they are better then the LN chisels.


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## Dangermouse (17 May 2013)

Wonder if you sharpen them with a rounded bevel ?? 8) :lol:  :wink:


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## Racers (17 May 2013)

Hi, Glynne 

If you want to try them go ahead, its only you that can tell it you like them and they work for you.

Pay no heed to those who don't want you to have nice stuff :wink: 

Pete


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## Jacob (17 May 2013)

Dangermouse":2ewbpr5x said:


> Wonder if you sharpen them with a rounded bevel ?? 8) :lol:  :wink:


The Japs do - I've seen their chisels with rounded bevels and it has been mentioned several times in other threads.
They haven't "caught up" with modern sharpening methods, don't use jigs on the whole and don't have weird hang-ups about bevels
Mind you a latterday sharpener will assume that a Jap chisel has been rounded by some ignoramus and will stupidly set about "correcting" it in the modern way!


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## custard (17 May 2013)

Glynne, if you enjoy a more ceremonial approach to tool preparation then Japanese chisels offer the potential for huge satisfaction. Mounting the hoops, maintaining the back, constant oiling to keep rust away, learning all the specialised language...you'll be halfway to becoming a Shinto priest by the end of it.

If you're chiefly about cutting craftsmanlike joints in hardwoods then stick with your LN chisels.


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## Glynne (17 May 2013)

Thanks for the replies guys. 

Custard - yes I'm more about cutting joints than prating about with tool preparation, but I don't have a paring chisel and LNs are quite short so I'm still tempted to try a paring chisel. 

Corneel - any thoughts on the size for a paring chisel? 

Pete - you may well have talked me into trying one. 

Jacob - I have my own wood store, use half of the family garden shed for wood, some wood in "stick", some secreted in the bike shed not to mention some in the loft, and some "acclimatising" on the study floor as well as the spare bedroom! Even if I managed to sneak it in (ha!), I wouldn't get away with such an excuse. It would have to be for yet another family heirloom and I still have a list as long as your arm to start let alone finish. 

Cheers all, 

Glynne


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## David C (17 May 2013)

Japanese long paring chisels are some of my favorites.

Unfortunately no one sells them any more in uk??

So you would have to go to people like, Dieter Schmidt, Tools from Japan, Tools for Working Wood, Japan Woodworker etc.

I would be very pleased to hear of other good sources.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth


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## custard (17 May 2013)

David C":2zbou4ha said:


> Japanese long paring chisels are some of my favorites.
> 
> Unfortunately no one sells them any more in uk??
> 
> ...



Here are some long paring chisels...not cheap but if they're anything like the Blue Spruce dovetail chisels I use then worth it,

http://www.bluesprucetoolworks.com/cgi/ ... egory=PRCH


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## Benchwayze (17 May 2013)

Buy some Western Red Cedar instead. You'll immediately notice the need for 'exceedingly sharp tools'. Then buy the the chisels. They *will* make a difference to your woodwork because you'll enjoy using them so much. :mrgreen:


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## Corneel (17 May 2013)

My Japanese "pairing" chisel is just my widest bench chisel so nothing special, just a wide chisel. I mentioned it because all the sets have a lot of very wide chisels, and I didn't need that. I have 6, 9, 12, 18 and something wide (30?). Lately I have bought a very long vintage Sorby paring chisel which is very nice too. But I can't hit the Sorby with a hammer, which is no problem with the Japanese. I also use it to split wood in things like half lap joints. Split first, then pair with the same chisel.


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## David C (17 May 2013)

Blue Spruce A2 steel, Japanese carbon steel and very hard. This is why they are different from UK long paring chisels.

The cost of the Japanese chisels is not in the handles, but in the forging.

David


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## mqbernardo (17 May 2013)

Glynne, have you bought it yet? if not, don´t do it... it will be the first of many!


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## Hardwood66 (17 May 2013)

I have a set and can't get one with them at all to heavy to long plus they take forever to sharpen


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## Harbo (17 May 2013)

My favourite chisels are Matsumura Blue Steel - take an incredible edge and have no problems sharpening them.

Rod


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## mqbernardo (17 May 2013)

Hardwood66":3ihxp0cs said:


> I have a set and can't get one with them at all to heavy to long plus they take forever to sharpen



really? what stones do you use? i sharpen mine quite effortlessly, much to do with the "hollow" back i suppose.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 May 2013)

Jacob'll be here in a minute!


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## Benchwayze (18 May 2013)

Not if he realises it's a 'baited swim'... 8) 

Correction. He was along earlier.  .


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## CStanford (18 May 2013)

custard":1xng4lub said:


> Glynne, if you enjoy a more ceremonial approach to tool preparation then Japanese chisels offer the potential for huge satisfaction. Mounting the hoops, maintaining the back, constant oiling to keep rust away, learning all the specialised language...you'll be halfway to becoming a Shinto priest by the end of it.
> 
> If you're chiefly about cutting craftsmanlike joints in hardwoods then stick with your LN chisels.



Fantastic post. Gives new meaning to 'sharper than British wit...'


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## Jacob (18 May 2013)

Benchwayze":2pv67yri said:


> Not if he realises it's a 'baited swim'... 8)
> 
> Correction. He was along earlier.  .


I had to look up "baited swim". An angling term it seems. Not a million miles from "trolling". Something new everyday! :lol:


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## Dangermouse (18 May 2013)

Hardwood66":38pp61ie said:


> I have a set and can't get one with them at all to heavy to long plus they take forever to sharpen



DONT mention that b l o o d y word ( SHAPENING ! ) again or I will SCREAM ! :tongue9: :evil: :twisted: ](*,)


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## Benchwayze (18 May 2013)

Jacob":2ihvna5i said:


> Benchwayze":2ihvna5i said:
> 
> 
> > Not if he realises it's a 'baited swim'... 8)
> ...



An angling term indeed Jacob; and if it is a 'baited swim'; be assured I was not the one who did the baiting. I merely described it. The only time I 'ground-bait', is when I am after the tench! Slippery customers they are. Not that I can do any angling until my new knees are working properly! 


:wink: 
.


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## Dovetaildave (18 May 2013)

SHAPENING..................... :?: 

I have some lovely old Sorbys and Marples....

My favorite is the one I made by marrying/braising a Marples custard n jelly to a scott (?) file.....wow what an edge :shock:


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## Phil Pascoe (19 May 2013)

Bring back Stanley Unwin, I say.


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## Benchwayze (19 May 2013)

phil.p":1b7bvold said:


> Bring back Stanley Unwin, I say.



Absoboldeylows!


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## Glynne (31 May 2013)

Temptation 1, Will Power "nil"

I succumbed to a japanese paring chisel on the really compelling argument that I don't have a paring chisel (flimsy or what?).
A secondary argument is that it will be a family heirloom to be passed down to: -







I think some serious training is necessary as his first inclination was to use it as a cricket bat - but as long as he doesn't use it to prise out upholstery tacks as his Grandma once did with some of my chisels, then there is hope. 
BTW, the edge still has it's protective film on - at that price I don't want the chisel damaged!!

Thanks for the advice guys.

Glynne


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## David C (31 May 2013)

Glynne,

Do tell us how you get on please.

David Charlesworth


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (31 May 2013)

> Do tell us how you get on please.
> 
> David Charlesworth



Hi David

You are probably not aware that you are indirectly responsible for the popularity of Koyamaichi chisels. I first came across this brand after reading about them in one of your books about a dozen years ago. I looked all over for them, but you must have had the only ones in existence. :? Eventually I came across a few being sold on eBay, and pounced on them. A couple of years ago Stu (Tools from Japan) contacted me for my opinion of them as he was considering selling them after having met Mr Koyama. He arranged for Mr Koyama to make up a few custom versions for me (in the end I think that these are what are now being sold).

I wrote about this here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReview ... isels.html

Here are the Koyamaichi I have ...






As far as Japanese paring chisels go ... slicks ... I have a set of Kiyohisa. These were a three year wait, but worth it ...






Wonderful chisels to use.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Phil Pascoe (31 May 2013)

I'm madly envious - but I don't envy you the bill!


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## David C (31 May 2013)

Derek,

This is most interesting. Paul Brown sold Japanese tools, in UK, for a number of years. His catalogue contained many choices of maker. Perhaps too many. I think that Shiro (not sure about spelling), the agent was too persuasive. I believe Ice Bear brand is run by his daughter, who I have met. Anyway at that time, I became dissatisfied with Iyori. There were good, affordable, long paring chisels by Koyama, and better finished, more expensive ones by Koyamaichi. I was told that these two were brothers???

Best wishes,
David


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## speeder1987 (4 Jun 2013)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > Do tell us how you get on please.
> >
> > David Charlesworth
> 
> ...



Incidentally Derek your blog post was the reason why I ordered one from stu, though I'm still waiting for it. Apparently it takes 5-6 weeks to get one made, as I customised it to have a boxwood handle, blue paper steel and a dovetail profile 

Its now coming up to the 5th week so could be any day now and I can't wait!

As a quick aside the one thing which put me of ordering from tools from japan was I assumed postage would be high to the uk. Amazingly it only cost £2.80 for postage ....... that's less than axminster!!!!

John


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2013)

speeder1987":3nrlc6gt said:


> As a quick aside the one thing which put me of ordering from tools from japan was I assumed postage would be high to the uk. Amazingly it only cost £2.80 for postage ....... that's less than axminster!!!!



Ditto - I had a (rather nice) 10" Kitchen knife sent over - 7 USD P&P.

BugBear


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Jun 2013)

Did you get caned with vat and import duties?


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## speeder1987 (4 Jun 2013)

We will see, when I had a waterstone sent over, there were no additional fees, but we will see this time 

John


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## mqbernardo (4 Jun 2013)

speeder1987":2qrz4vll said:


> Derek Cohen (Perth said:
> 
> 
> > > Do tell us how you get on please.
> ...



well, this thing goes down in circles - as i bought my koyamaichi chisels after seeing a post from Derek. it also shows the power of persuasion of forums over the initiated, i dare say. anyway, lovely chisel.


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## Kodama (20 Jun 2013)

If you are looking for high quality nomi for an affordable price the either Kikuhiromaru or Ouchi are top. With high quality I mean long lasting edge and ease of sharpening. 
They are worth every penny if you compare this to their performance.


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## mqbernardo (20 Jun 2013)

i´d forgotten about Kikuhiromaru, thanks Kodama! (BTW, i envy your location...)


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