# The UKW Infill Project



## jimi43

Hello good friends.....

Over the last few months I have been hard pushed to keep a secret that only a handful of people have shared but today I can thankfully spill the beans!

Those of you who know our fellow Member and Gentleman of this Parish and budding Roy Underhill impersonator...Richard T, will know of his amazing skill with metal and all things huge. :mrgreen: 

Well today...a rather large and heavy package arrived via the Royal Mail...and I had quite forgotten about it (even though he told me only yesterday!  )....and so it was still a surprise.

Inside the package was hidden a gorgeous lump of steel which he has spent many moons fashioning into this masterpiece!!!!







Richard has been tinkering with infills for a while now and recently announced to me that he wished me to have a carcass so that I may fill it in...a bit like Planemaking By Numbers really! :mrgreen: 

I have previously been known to tinker with the "black stuff"...but I would be about 200 years old... practising every day of the week...before I even approached the skill level of our mate Richard.






The canny amongst you will also notice that I have carefully arranged this beauty on top and in front of some wood!

This morning I accidentally went and saw "Bob" of Timberline fame....and found the largest lumps of English Boxwood he had in stock...

I'm not sure that, even then, they are going to be big enough for the handle...it depends on how they cut. If not...then it's Plan B...the large lump of English Walnut on which this monster rests. This was donated to me by Douglas...and the jury's out as to whether I go light or dark...but this may be decided for me as I said!

Richard remarked to me in a PM recently that the top was shaped...in the form of a Japanese wave...and as you can see....






...this is beautifully shaped and continues through eye-catching curves which Rubens would be proud of! 

The "frog" must have taken more than a little blood, sweat and tears to shape...






It is perfectly aligned to merge with the slope of the rear mouth bevel...and should provide rock hard support for the iron once set.

You can see just how huge this lump is by looking down the plane from the inside....






The slope leads to a perfectly formed mouth...






....this is going to cut like a dream!

But it you truly want to see how much of a master craftsman Richard is...you need to try to find the dovetails...

I had to used light at exactly the right angle of incidence and use a polarising filter just to get this shot....






So there you have it...Richard's contribution to the UKW Infill Project and I'm sure that Richard will be along soon to describe in detail a summary of how he has got this far...

Meanwhile..I need to practice a bit with the lathe after making a dummy screw to test aspects of screwcap knob making....






This one's a teenie bit small and very much "Holteyesque" so I need to come up with a KT Tool design...and a MUCH large rod of brass!! :mrgreen: 

I'm really looking forward to finishing this plane...I only hope that I can do justice to the work that Richard has done so far! =D> =D> 

Well done my friend....simply brilliant!

Jim


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## Racers

Hi, Jim

Well its going to be fantastic when its finished, any idea of the time scale? SS gift :wink: 

How about a box and walnut in fill? walnut racing stripe down the middle.

Pete


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## marcros

A true piece of craftsmanship.

Is there a reason why such a plane couldnt be make from a flat sheet and the sides folded up? Is it just the force required that would be the problem, or is it because you couldnt get the corners sufficiently sharp?


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## AndyT

So that's why Richard was going so slow over the wood-fitting part of the job! Congratulations Jim, on having served your infilling apprenticeship!

I'm sure the end result will be gorgeous - and if it's going to be a Secret Santa gift I'd like to offer a large bribe to rig the 'random' drawing of names!

I hope I am safe in assuming that every step of the way will be documented in lovely clear photos - with the trademark tub of pansies in the background - for any 'armchair plane makers' to enjoy. 

Who's making the iron, cap iron and lever cap? Is that the reason for your new milling machine Jim?


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## jimi43

Nice idea Pete...but I want to be more traditional....I think I will work on the handle first...use some softwood/mdf for the shape and dimensioning and play with that until I get it right and then cut at least 3 blanks out of box, walnut and burr oak and then see them in situ to make the final choice. 

Once I have done that...documented of course Andy...changing the flowers as the seasons dictate...(clue on timescale! :mrgreen: ) and then once the rear is decided it will be a simple case of using that wood to make a flush front plateau with traditional "wedding cake" bun to finish.

Iron and lever cap....I will make both...the irons are simple...I can fire them up on the kiln...3-4mm....make the cap iron...knob etc...but the lever cap will take a bit of thinking about. There were a few variants of this..I like the Spiers ones...or maybe chunky Norris...and Richard...you will have to give me a clue where the pivot point is likely to be.

For infill fixings...I am juggling ideas...over-large screw into smaller countersink...file off top...or pin...or pin with brass sleeve?

Lots of things to think about but just for the handle design so far...I like the one on my Scottish infill...






It has an understated elegance and the top bow can echo the Japanese wave theme with a bit of careful design work....

Nothing has been written in stone yet...but I am off to make some templates/test infills and an iron...this will give us testing ability.

Jim


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## Richard T

previously on "Jim's Plane" ....






























































Don't forget your spacer Jim - without that in it's not square. Welcome to the wonderful world of parallel sided dovetailed infill infilling.


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## jimi43

Ah...yes...the spacer...will not forget that!

Incidentally Richard...I checked out the huge boxwood logs and if I work on the block just a bit oversized on the measurements I have taken from the Scottish panel...I should have enough with the two logs for the entire infill.

Of course...it might be that they are so different in grain pattern that it doesn't work but we won't know until we do a bit of initial surgery. I will have to get Douglas to resaw these...or it's by hand. The walnut will easily be ok.

I will have to contact that link you sent me to see if I can get a suitable bit of brass block to make the lever cap...will send them an email tomorrow.

Jim


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## Richard T

In my experience (Walnut only) it is very much worth leaving infills at least 1/16" over size in width while shaping, then leaving in the house preferably until they shrink no more ... it is a horrible feeling to find that the thing that should need a lot of persuading, slips in easy and is therefore too small. 

Re the pivot point - it depends on the size and shape of the finished lever cap as well as the decision to use a cap iron or not and if so, how thick/ what shape. The classic bent - up - and - down - at - the - end variety will raise things even more. All this on top of a 3 1/6" iron. Forgot to say; I could make you a cap iron if you like - 3mm job. . 
I suppose it depends on whether you want to have an adjuster or not .... questions, quishtions and quashtions.


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## jimi43

From discussions with almost everyone...the Norris adjuster is not worth having...and I agree with this. I'm not sure about a depth adjuster with no lateral though...might be nice.

Reading up on the "chipbreaker" aspect of the cap iron...I guess a thick one would be needed so I guess at that stage in the project the steps need to be...make iron and cap iron...offer these up and measure the thickness (max) of the lever cap...then make the cap and put the hole at the pivot point (pilot)...and then eye this in for the side holes.

Do you agree?

Jim


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## rileytoolworks

Wow :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: 
Absolutely awesome metalwork Richard.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. 
If it's anything like Jimis previous offerings it's going to be top notch indeed.

Get a move on Jim! I've got antsinmepants to see more!


Adam.


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## DTR

Excellent stuff, I look forward to seeing the end result


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## jimi43

Richard...I know you said "don't feel afraid to bash the spacer in place" but hell mate....you put the fear of God into me doing it!

I was thinking with every (gentle) tap that the dovetails would reach a point where they would quit shaking hands with each other and part company with an explosive force not seen since Bikini.......and I'm talking atolls not Jordan's top! :mrgreen: 






I was more worried about breaking the beautiful invisible dovetails...or even moving them a bit so they showed...but nothing...absolutely nothing happened at all! (I wish there was a PHEW smiliey!!!)

The fit in this piece of mahogany was absolutely perfect.....and that was a piece right out of the off-cut bin given to me ages ago by John and previously used on my 220 infill!! How spookie is that!!!?






I was then in a bit of a panic for fear I wasn't actually going to get this out again...but knocking the overhang upwards did that...eventually! #-o 






While it was still in place I marked exactly the level of the frog block top...and then squared it all around....






I marked it cleanly with the beautiful little Jarrah marking knife given to me by buddy Derek in Perth....and tomorrow I will make my first cut with Ginger...






...from my dear friends in Germany...Klaus and Pedder!

Remind me Richard...what is the bed angle? I will be measuring it but I needed confirmation from you I have done this right.

So this is fast becoming truly a huge UKW collaboration...this makes me very happy indeed!

Oh...and I attempted the impossible....marking out various options on a rather irregular boxwood log...all 2.25 kg of it!!






That should be fun to cut...I may use my Huntley Oak Japanese saw...






I think it can cut it!  

I'll get me dressing gown! :mrgreen: 

More later...night all!

Jimi


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## kirkpoore1

Great thread, with great pictures. Thanks, guys.

Kirk
who keeps reading "infill" as, unfortunately, "landfill"...


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## Richard T

Kirk - not yet, we hope.  

Jim note the compounds filed into the corners:






You can try to pop those out but I doubt you'll succeed. (Now I've said it haven't I?) I have had that spacer all the way along the length several times - note the hammer marks.
The angle is supposed to be 47 1/2 degrees; after all that filing I think it's still somewhere close.


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## bugbear

jimi43":3n3nnf0k said:


> Oh...and I attempted the impossible....marking out various options on a rather irregular boxwood log...all 2.25 kg of it!!



I suspect (given your metal work tool pile) you know this, but I will gently remind you that marking such a log is trivial with a surface (scribing) gauge.

surface-gauges-for-woodworkers-t22873.html?hilit=scribing

post263747.html

BugBear


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## Blister

Lads !

All I can say about this thread is :-
.
.
.
.
.
.
Quality 

Love it =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Cheshirechappie

kirkpoore1":39u3zp2p said:


> Great thread, with great pictures. Thanks, guys.
> 
> Kirk
> who keeps reading "infill" as, unfortunately, "landfill"...




Kirk - this plane isn't even half finished yet, and it already makes my best planes look like landfill material!

That's quality metalworking, Richard. Forgive me for asking a cheeky question (which you don't have to answer if you don't want to), but about how many hours did you need to get that far? (I'll have a guess at about 40 to 50, based on the amount of handwork to true things up and achieve that level of finish.)

Jimi - are you planning to make and fit a screw adjuster, now you have turning facilities?


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## jimi43

Cheers for the comments guys and Richard...for the comfort (and blame if it all goes ping!) :mrgreen: 

BB....wonderful thread that...DOH! Why didn't I think of that....ooooo....look...all these little gauges are gathering shouting ME ME ME!






47.5 degrees eh Richard....ok mate...sounds about normal...and with a (rather expensive) Swiss analogue and my SS digital gauge...have marked it out...now we shall see!






Now...anyone who thinks a Burgess three wheeled bandsaw (£10 at a bootfair) is not capable of serious work....think again!

I figured even a beautiful saw like Ginger can't cut curves so I might just as well trust in my Burgess and cut them all...

First the slope...






Then to cut out the step....






A couple of thou that side of the line and then hit the Heath Robinson disc sander....






Yup...that'll do....






The real test of the Burgess comes later...and I'll hold off on posting the rest as I have to break for work (darn interruptions!)

But what I will say is...if you want a crappy old cheap saw to cut like this you have to have a TUFFSAW blade and a couple of lignum guides...oh...and a zero clearance insert!

See you all near midnight and I will post the rest of the morning's work!

Cheers

Jim


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## Blister

ALFIE is getting better at the potodogrophy :mrgreen:


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## Klaus Kretschmar

Very impressing project in your pipeline, Jim! Richard did a wonderful job, awesome metalwork!, and regarding your skills on infills you've restored already, I'm sure that this plane will become something very special. Hopefully the Boxwood will work, it's such a wonderful wood that shows it's beauty even more if it's combined with steel than with brass. I'm too curious about the progress.

Klaus


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## Richard T

Hello CC - I don't know how long it took all together but it's much less than you guess. The first one I made took much longer but things are learnt and knacks got. And that finish - just draw filing


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## mbartlett99

Wonder if you guys could help me out here - the topic is in point I promise.

I'm a marine engineer and therefore have access to at least a decent set of metalworking tools onboard. I also have free time during the evenings/off-watch so I'd thought about buying a little infill plane kit to keep me amused. Anyone here had experience of any? I'm not ready for the full shebang of making one from scratch, apart from anything my time is unpredictable and I am bad at losing momentum and shelving projects. i would be able to take a small amount of handtools with me to sea but obviously nothing too heavy.

Any input would be gratefully received.


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## Richard T

Hi MB,

Unfortunately .... you will need an anvil.  Not the lightest of tools .... Best advice would be to get it together on shore and and do the infilling and fettling afloat. 

Depending on what type of plane you get as a kit will dictate the choice of tools. What did you have in mind?


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## Klaus Kretschmar

mbartlett99":30d0tcpd said:


> Wonder if you guys could help me out here - the topic is in point I promise.
> 
> I'm a marine engineer and therefore have access to at least a decent set of metalworking tools onboard. I also have free time during the evenings/off-watch so I'd thought about buying a little infill plane kit to keep me amused. Anyone here had experience of any? I'm not ready for the full shebang of making one from scratch, apart from anything my time is unpredictable and I am bad at losing momentum and shelving projects. i would be able to take a small amount of handtools with me to sea but obviously nothing too heavy.
> 
> Any input would be gratefully received.



There's an infill maker over here in Germany. It's Gerd Fritsche who does fantastic work. Gerd offers additionally infill kits at very very reasonable prices. Just an idea.

http://www.traditional-handplanes.com/planekits.php

Klaus


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## AndyT

Well, MB, you would need an anvil if you were starting from plain flat bits of steel like Richard has. But you say 'kit' and there aren't very many of them around as far as I know. Aled who posts on here looked into the idea a while back and did offer a kit for a while, but I'm not sure if he still does. (See http://www.infillplane.co.uk/)

Another possibility would be to buy a rough casting - in theory, you can then hand-file this and fit a lovely exotic infill. There have been a few on eBay recently, but the only reliable source I know of is Bristol Design - see this old thread.

Whatever you do, keep us posted!


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## mbartlett99

Thanks for that guys.

Had seen Gerts site and thats looks like a goes there's also a couple of American sites - St James Bay and Brese (bit pricey there). Large lumps of steel and things to hit things with are not in short supply round here, same with files, vices and drilling machines. Band saws are not that abundant and easyjet/BA will probably complain.


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## pedder

Jimi, Richard, great project! Looking forward for the longest thread ever!

Jimi, this







wouldn't have been a cut for Gill (17 tpi rip cut, 35mm cutting deepth) but for Roberta (12 ? tpi crosscut50mm cutting deepth) If you sand or plane afterwards, it should have been no problem.

Cheers 
Pedder


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## No skills

marcros":h6u8q8da said:


> A true piece of craftsmanship.
> 
> Is there a reason why such a plane couldnt be make from a flat sheet and the sides folded up? Is it just the force required that would be the problem, or is it because you couldnt get the corners sufficiently sharp?




The pressure required isnt really much of a problem (press wise) but I dont know if theres tooling easily available thats up to it. I've done a small amount of work with an Amada bending machine (similar to this http://www.amada.co.jp/english/products ... eries.html) and bending 6mm steel wasnt a problem. Putting a crisp bend in material up to 2mm is quite easy - the punch and die look quite flimsy in fact. The punch and die for the thicker stuff is massive in comparison but you could only get a bend with a fairly large radius (think 1p coin), I can only imagine how chunky the tooling would need to be to get a crisper bend. Also theres the stress/damage thats introduced into the steel when cold bending it that way, not sure if it would stand up to it without tearing.

JMO/E, I wont detract from this thread further.


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## jimi43

AH! Allen....I'm afraid that was mostly Annie as ALFIE was off trying to add the sound effects for the mallet hitting the wood....






But he was rather bored as he could only find one half of a coconut...and the birds are a bit cheesed off with him because he has eaten all the white bits! I'll get him to work on the front bun when the time comes...he likes buns! :mrgreen: 

Now....let me try to answer some of the other posts before I continue....

CC...sorry mate...I missed your comment about lever cap...yes..as you probably guessed by now...a brass or gunmetal lever cap will be made on the mill. This will be my first one so I will have time to play a bit with the old designs whilst resisting the temptation to copy the wonderful work of Karl Holtey...but yes...a lever cap it shall be. I have a great idea to overcome some of the shortcomings of the old designs too...the fact that the lever cap is a soft metal rotating and pressing against a pair of steel screws or shafts...but that will come later! :wink: 

Klaus...thank you my friend...I too love the look of boxwood...it is really subtle and goes with steel so well as you say...but I am also a fan of burr oak and walnut...these both look fantastic against steel...I may have to use these anyway if the boxwood stock is too small....these are the largest chunks of box I have ever seen and so has Rob at Timberline and he thinks it might be pushing it getting a handle out of one...we shall see! Did you hear back from the doctor yet by the way?

MB...the guy mentioned on FleaBay does have a variety of castings....

CLICK HERE

....but having done three castings before I will tell you now...these are not easy to infill well...and to finish the castings really requires a mill. I did it with a disc sander and that was hard work...trust me. Why not make a nice wood plane instead. That is not to be taken lightly but will probably be more practical on a ship.

Pedder my friend...I think I will probably use the beautiful saws you have done for me on the more delicate work around the handle...I was itching to use Ginger but as you will see now...it would not have worked for the rest of the cuts.....

And that leads my nicely on to the next step...

Now...imagine if you will...the sound of a *PAIR* of coconuts being bashed together by ALFIE....






Getting a piece of infill wood into what is effectively a huge spring even with a spacer is quite a laugh...then it needs to be lined up and guess what...






It really is exactly 47.5 degrees Richard!! =D> 

Sighting along the compound ramp by eye...oh and using my fingernail...






...it was almost spot on...just a slight flair on the right which will scrape out...but not bad first pop! I bet the real wood doesn't go like this!  It never does!

Now...for the marking of the curve....






The observant amongst you will see that it is just shy of the tail here! But it is a piece of scrap intended as a dry run...and we ALL know how they ALWAYS come in 2 thou short not long! And we don't want mahogany anyway...so after just as much of a struggle knocking it out again...(I kept thinking of Bill Carter and his burr infill jointer...with a virtual sledge hammer!)....it came out...and it was back to the old Burgess bandsaw to see how well this setup really performs around a curve...






I tell you what...this setup is really exceeding my expectations...and I know it was good but this good...






But it's not until you fit it back into the plane that you realise how accurate the cut can be...






There would be sound effects at this bit but ALFIE had fallen asleep after gorging himself on coconut all morning....






How he got this from the bird table I have no idea!!! :mrgreen: 

So you will have to imagine the sound of small taps as I slowly worked the infill along towards the frog ramp alignment...






Testing with the "fingernail" technique....






Annie could not resist taking a "first fitting" shot as I was grinning a bit from ear to ear....






...actually this was a look of total relief!! I don't want to say how much responsibility I feel to get this right...Richard has set the bar so blinkin' high...the nerves are fraying at the edges already!!

So...no sanding...straight from the bandsaw....






....only a few thou left to sand in line with the (yet to be bevelled) edges...






Even the tight bend in the tail fitted perfectly (yes thanks for that little feature Richard!!!)






Just need to remember to use a blank slightly longer when I really make the cut!

Well...that's it for the day...I'm off to get some gauge plate for the iron and cap iron...ALFIE's off to get another coconut so we can have sound...and tomorrow is real stock cut day...maybe...OH...and get some brass..or shall we have gunmetal Richard? 8) 

Cheers maties....

Jim

P.S. Richard...I have a really cool design for the lever cap pivot assembly...will PM you tomorrow!


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## Richard T

" A big spring" ... that's exactly what it's like. Very well done Jim for getting that so snug. =D> No wonder you're grinning from ear to there. This is difficult stuff. 

This is why I did everything I could think of to make getting my bit of Walnut in and out easier:






I left a sneck on the back for tapping backwards but this was not anything like as effective as leaving it over - long at the back so it could be tapped or levered upwards.
I've found that however carefully you go and how successfully you get all the lines straight and corners flush in the pins and tails there are always some places that are narrower and wider than others when you pein it up. This makes putting such a tight fitting piece of wood in so much more 'interesting'. 

Don't know about brass or bronze - in general brass = soft and bronze = hard but there are mirriad recipes for both. I've been looking at PB102 as I have read that it works by hand well. First I was convinced that the PB must mean that there is lead in the mix but no - it's just for Phosphor Bronze. As you can machine it, it doesn't matter as much.
All it has to do is put pressure downwards after all. I suppose the only concern about it being too soft is that the thread might wear more quickly.


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## Richard T

Forgot to say earlier, re Norris adjusters, that most peoples' experience of them recently is probably on the Veritas BU smoother and similar; it is mine, and these short, piddly things have no lateral adjustment leverage. I haven't tried one but they must be better when sturdier and longer, behind a BD iron surely? Yet to find out for myself but just a prediction.


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## AndyT

Richard T":27jb9edg said:


> Forgot to say earlier, re Norris adjusters, that most peoples' experience of them recently is probably on the Veritas BU smoother and similar; it is mine, and these short, piddly things have no lateral adjustment leverage. I haven't tried one but they must be better when sturdier and longer, behind a BD iron surely? Yet to find out for myself but just a prediction.



That's a valid point I think. I have a QS BU Jack, and the adjuster is relatively awkward to get at and use, compared to the Norris-from-the-Shed, where it is so accessible it looks almost vulnerable but does not get in the way. The Norris adjuster is just as effective for lateral adjustment as the common Stanley/Bailey design, though the action is more positive because of the extra little pivot points on the casting. (Would it have to have those to work properly? Is it too late to add them?) 
It's certainly easier to set than my own superficially similar but adjustment- and name-free infill smoother.

There's more detail on the different designs of Norris adjusters and their pros and cons in this article on Tony Murland's site.


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## Richard T

Andy, I asked Bill C about those grub screws/dimples and he was quite dismissive of them if I remember right though I'm sure there must be some advantage. As they are grub screws in my Veritas I will take them out and give it a go without them when I get around to it. 

That's a great link btw - all the thread sizes for the Norris adjuster right there in black and yellow. I must take a copy before I go and see Stefan at the market again. (Taps and dies).


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## jimi43

Obviously....I am soon to decide the cavity for the bed infill and the decision to go with an adjuster of Norris design, other design or not at all has to be made relatively quickly.

Should we discuss this now?

Jim


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## Richard T

You're cracking on with this at an alarming rate Jim so maybe we should. 

So the options are:

* Don't use one - make the back infill solid, no need for a cap iron/ or slot for just cap iron bolt head if chip breaking is an important issue. Handle can be let in to mortice in back infill back from iron.

*Don't use one yet but provide for one in future by letting handle in right up to the front having forstnered the right size hole for the banjo and gubbins. (Need to know size of banjo and gubbins) Slot could be probably be easily cut afterwards.

*Buy a Norrisesque adjuster (£50 +) .

*Make a Norrisesque adjuster. 

*Make a different adjuster. 

The above musings are responsible for filling 50% of my waking headspace.


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## Racers

Hi,

You could buy a Holtey plane and remove the adjuster, simples!

Pete


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## jimi43

During the event at MAC Timbers recently...I had opportunity to speak on this further with Richard Arnold...(also of this Parish) and discuss his favourite plane...a Norris without an adjuster.

His story (correct me if I get something wrong Richard) was that as a young nipper...he was given the gift of choosing the plane from a shop. The shopkeeper did a bind testing with him...the result would be he would have the one he chose by feel. The one he ended up with was a Norris without an adjuster and an absolutely stunning infill.

Since that conversation I have really confirmed what I felt all along...if I ever made one..then it would be without the adjuster.

My Scottish panel has no adjuster and for what I do...I get on fine with it. Maybe this is because I have passed that part of my apprenticeship with the woodies and can tweek the iron in and out relatively accurately and quickly with a mallet. Lateral adjustment has never really been an issue in my opinion....an attempt to fix a problem that is not really there. I mean....how difficult is it to tap left or right and test?

If the argument is for an adjuster based on speed then I would say...get a planer/thicknesser... :mrgreen: 

The main benefit of course is that it simplifies the design considerably..reducing the risk of error.

That being said...I'm more than happy to consider a depth adjustment and leave the lateral adjustment manual. I think this is the only adjustment method that is viable.

If we spend some time thinking about this...we can then move on to the front for the time being.

What do you think?

Jim


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## Harbo

Bristol Designs and Ray Iles used to sell Norris adjusters - one of them to the later design?
Jim Kingshott has details in one of his books - will have a look?
I quite like them and have had no problems with my Norris's, Veritas BU's and my little one that comes in a green bag?

Rod


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## Cheshirechappie

Richard T":1bmpd9fq said:


> Andy, I asked Bill C about those grub screws/dimples and he was quite dismissive of them if I remember right though I'm sure there must be some advantage. As they are grub screws in my Veritas I will take them out and give it a go without them when I get around to it.
> 
> That's a great link btw - all the thread sizes for the Norris adjuster right there in black and yellow. I must take a copy before I go and see Stefan at the market again. (Taps and dies).




I've just done a bit of sourcing for the Norris threads quoted. 5/16 x 32tpi RH is a standard ME (Model Engineer) thread, available from any good model engineering stockist. However, 7/32" x 40tpi LH is a tricky one - the only supplier I can find for this size in left-hand is Tracy Tools in Devon ( www.tracytools.com ).

For someone 'making new', the Metric equivalents may be easier to track down. The 5/16" x 32tpi is pretty close to 8mm x 1mm pitch (Metric Fine), and even closer to the non-standard 8 x 0.75mm. The 7/32" x 40tpi LH is quite close to M5 LH - 5 x 0.8mm.

For metric fine and left-hand, Tracy Tools should be able to supply, or you could try The Tap and Die Company ( www.tapdie.com ).

For anybody with access to the necessary screwcutting lathe (and you won't need a large one), the cheapest way to do the job would be to buy a taper tap only; drill and thread the hole, then use it as a gauge to screwcut the male thread to a nice, shake-free fit. That would save the cost of buying a die for a one-off job. Those without screwcutting lathes will have to buy both tap and die.


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## AndyT

If anyone does want to make a Norris-alike adjuster, Robert Wearing shows some detailed instructions in "The Resourceful Woodworker" in the chapter on planes. This bit also appeared in the abridged version that Woodworker magazine did as a cover-mount freebie.


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## Racers

Hi, 

Didn't Kingshot recomend a 40tpi micrometer thread tap and die to make a single threaded one? I seem to remember it from somewhere.
It would be easier to make.

Pete


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## AndyT

Racers":2wj9en2c said:


> Hi,
> 
> Didn't Kingshot recomend a 40tpi micrometer thread tap and die to make a single threaded one? I seem to remember it from somewhere.
> It would be easier to make.
> 
> Pete



or in Jim's case, he might just be able to pick up an old micrometer going cheap, which could be a nice source of a fine threaded part ready made!

An inch of adjustment should be enough for a few hundred years of use, and he does have one or two other planes, so this one won't get all the wear...


----------



## DTR

Racers":27v51ufk said:


> Hi,
> 
> Didn't Kingshot recomend a 40tpi micrometer thread tap and die to make a single threaded one? I seem to remember it from somewhere.
> It would be easier to make.
> 
> Pete



Some time ago I ended up with several baccy tins of taps. There was a jumble of the common thread forms; BSW, BSF, BA, Unified etc.... plus a number of very fine threads that I could not identify. They could well be in the 40tpi range. I don't know the particulars off the top of my head, but if they might be useful to Jim or anyone else, let me know. I'm not likely to use them. I don't have the corresponding dies though, unfortunately.


----------



## jimi43

Anyone feel up to designing a new mechanism entirely?

I'm game if you lot are!

I have a "few" micrometers spare...and I have Jim Kingshot's book. Will have to re-read that bit first if I do embark on this route. You do all understand this will extend the build a bit more than a "tad"!!

I'm up for anything with this...it's going to be a one off for sure! 8) 

Dave....really generous offer...I may take you up on it...we shall see. Thank you!

Jim


----------



## Harbo

Model Engineer Threads (if you can still get them?) in the range 5/32" to 1/4" have 40TPI

BA 4 & 5 are roughly in the 40TPI range (approx 3mm diam)

Rod


----------



## Klaus Kretschmar

Jim,

knowing little on infill plane making, my advice might be questionable. If I were you, I'd go without an adjuster for sure. The adjusting of a plane with a hammer is such an easy thing if you have done it a few times, that an adjuster never will be missed. I love my Veritas planes but I find myself more and more often to do the lateral adjustment with a hammer. It's quick and precisely. The depth adjustment can't be done with a hammer if there is an Norris adjuster installed but I doubt that it would get worse without an adjuster by doing it with a hammer.

All of my infills will be adjusted solely with a hammer and it works quick and fine. Just my two cents (or pennies?).

Cheers
Klaus


----------



## jimi43

I tend to agree with your logic Klaus......but there is time to think on this more.

What I really MUST do is one of THESE.....







*Photo - Johnny Kleso - Sawmillcreek.org*

Amazingly beautiful!

1/2" 10tpi ACME

Jim


----------



## arnoldmason8

Racers":y5af1c7s said:


> Hi,
> 
> Didn't Kingshot recomend a 40tpi micrometer thread tap and die to make a single threaded one? I seem to remember it from somewhere.
> It would be easier to make.
> 
> Pete


Hi Everybody----The thread in question is ME thread ( Model Engineer thread). They are a constant pitch of 40 and 32 tpi and they have Whitworth thread form. Taps and Dies are available from model engineers suppliers such as Tracy Tools Ltd.

Cheers ------Arnold


----------



## condeesteso

hi J, sorry been away walking the dog (left). Klaus is right of course. Your screw is a bit 'blingy' (we need to chat about 'less can be more') . Richard's work is exemplary.
I was more popular when dog-walking.


----------



## Richard T

Thanks for the link Arnold. I notice they do acme taps too  (Will we ever find a square tap? Was it only Norris who had one?)

That was a long dog walk Douglas ... but I know what Jack Russells are like.


----------



## jimi43

Welcome back Douglas...

I was actually only referring to the thread bit..we were on threads for now....the screw head will be as understated as I normally make it.

Will call tomorrow about trying to cut that huge box log with the meat and fish blade to maximise what we get out of it with the possibility of ending up with a piece big enough to make the handle bit. Once I know I can do that I will cut the rear base to fit out of the other box log and go that route otherwise it's plan B and possibly C...both of which are equally beautiful woods.

The bun I can do any time.

I'm still thinking adjuster/no adjuster though and still in the latter camp for now.

Jim


----------



## rileytoolworks

For what it's worth Jim, and in my humble opinion and all that, I say go with 'no adjuster'. A man of your calibre knows how and where to tap to adjust the iron, so the adjuster is redundant. Plus, you could make yourself a nice plane hammer out of scaps of the infill material! Win win I say. 

All the best, and good luck. Can't wait to see it come together. 

Adam.


----------



## condeesteso

seen the beast in the flesh now... the plane that is. Richard has done a truly amazing job. I confirm it is impossible to see where the dovetails were - absolutely outstanding =D> =D> =D> .
An afternoon cutting box and burr oak (courtesy Mac Timbers) - I liked the bur oak a lot, I like the box but it was looking hard to get the profiles out of the box (which seemed to have around 400 annular rings, by the way... box courtesy Robert at Timberline).
Big discussions re chip-breakers, the mechanics on a b/down plane, fewer components the better, fat blades always better... Say you have a b/u plane at 45 degrees, no chipbreaker. Then why does a b/down plane need one?

I shall let Jim get the discussion going, but for the record (not Record) Richard has made a very fine bit of metal indeed. I feel slightly sorry for Jim because he has to raise that bar. In forum public too :shock:


----------



## Paul Chapman

condeesteso":2gkhzfrl said:


> Say you have a b/u plane at 45 degrees, no chipbreaker. Then why does a b/down plane need one?



It doesn't, provided the blade is a thick one - the thicker the better.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Richard T

Jim has a job indeed. 
I know lots of people assume that the "wooden bit" of infill planes is the easy part ... I have just spent the best part of today putting the front bun into Jim's plane's little brother, a smoother I made before with the same shaped Cupid Bow. 
Fitting is one thing; I've done that before but today I drilled for the bars to hold it in. 

In the drill press, on it's side, in the machine vice, clamped by the sole to the jaw of the vice so as the drill bit would be parallel; I drilled the two holes. Then, with the infill in, drilled the wood through the holes in the steel and spotted the inside of the other side, took the wood out and continued through both holes in the plane now able to suds the drill. All well and good - couldn't have been more accurate. I put it all together and the holes in the infill were about half a hole out from those in the other side. #-o 

So I had to cut two short 6mm bars, put them in the side that lined up half way, clamp it all together again and drill through the off holes in the steel, opening up the duff half of the holes in the wood. With a bit of tapering on the ends they came through ok with some persuasion and no lifting of the wood. 

I'm sure you will be able to do better with the milling machine Jim but it's been a bit of an off - putter for me as to using sleeves - 1) It wouldn't have been possible and 2) it is quite immovable without them, think of draw pins .... :shock:


----------



## Racers

Hi, Chaps

If you use Burr Oak how are you going to stop it reacting with the steel?
I made a dovetailed rebate plane using oak as the infill, it had been o/k touchwood, probably because I epoxyed it in as well as riveted it, but it has all ways worried me. I plan on re-filling it at some point.

Pete


----------



## arnoldmason8

Richard T":kznmuk22 said:


> Thanks for the link Arnold. I notice they do acme taps too  (Will we ever find a square tap? Was it only Norris who had one?)


Hi Richard I am not sure that square thread taps are very satisfactory in a production environment. I have seen "one off" home made taps but the problem is providing clearance on the flanks of the threads so they tend to bind up in use so that is one of the reasons why acme threads were developed. Square theads are normaly screwcut on a lathe.

Cheers -----Arnold


----------



## bugbear

Richard T":2gn9lycj said:


> Thanks for the link Arnold. I notice they do acme taps too  (Will we ever find a square tap? Was it only Norris who had one?)



Hmm. I (rather strongly) suspect the reason no one make taps for square threads is that square threads are not a terrible good idea.

The guys who designed ACME, Whitworth, UNC, BA etc weren't dopes.

BugBear


----------



## Richard T

I don't think there is any reason for square thread over acme in a lever cap screw other than accurate Norris copying. 

Square seems to be used in heavy duty but small applications - clamps, machine vices, machine slides etc; using far more pressure than any right thinking soul would put on a lever cap. Just makes me wonder how the female is done when it is done. Cut on a lathe very well balanced? ... there are some impossible looking tricks illustrated in my Myford books. Would T Norris have been up to that sort of thing in his shed?


----------



## richarnold

Hi Jim. just to say that you were spot on with your recollection of the story about me being blindfolded.
Over the years i have tried to find a smother that i was happy with, and this included two Norris A5's. One with the 1913 patent, and one with the 1922 version. I hated them both with a passion. as you may remember i ended up creating my own smoother in the end, and this has no adjuster. In fact all the infills in regular use in the workshop are non adjustable, and i have never found this a problem.


----------



## jimi43

Richard...thanks for the confirmation...and that beautiful photograph of an equally beautiful plane!!!

That is more stunning that I remember if that is possible and you have made my mind up without question as to what infill stock to use...that is true eye-candy!

Ok...the reason your one doesn't go black from the steel is that is isn't steel!! :roll: 

If I were to coat the steel plane of Richard's with a barrier of some kind...say varnish or epoxy...do you think that would prevent the staining which Peter quite rightly mentions might happen? Any ideas on this?

I have a solution for the screws....stainless or bronze (yes!)....and I am really wondering if a WARD iron would also be the cutter of choice too...I do so love WARD irons!

Douglas and I had a play with his various irons from Lie Nielsen and we reckon that a 5mm iron would be just about spot on...even 4mm would work...so if I make one from 01 tool steel then that would be the other option....with a 3mm cap iron.

I love the shape of that handle on your Norris mate...would there be any chance of you tracing the profile...that is just perfect!

Owing to staff holidays...I have to stand in at the hotel for more shifts than I would ideally like this week but I should have time to rough out the handle with some mahogany and get an infill sorted for the front by the end of the week. I may have a design for a lever cap by then and there will be no adjuster on this plane...you have tipped the balance of my mind and I am firm on this.

I probably will cut a square threaded knob and also an ACME one...I can do the square on the lathe...that will be fun! AND...I found a most beautiful knurling tool on FleaBay this week.....







I don't know if I am going to cut my own knurl of sorts by hand (read lathe) or whether I'm going to use a knurling tool straight....but this has a beautiful set of gnashers...typical American engineering...over engineered and stunningly made....






This is the Cadillac of knurling tools for sure!






Anyway...more on that aspect of the build as we progress. The 1" brass round is currently being whittled into a knob blank...so I will photograph that progression this week...along with my attempt at square type threads!

I will leave you all tonight...particularly those amongst you from Health and Safety with this picture of Douglas cutting up a little log of box....






Now...far be it from me to suggest that he has lost his marbles...let alone nearly his fingers but even I...the crazy loon of the cave would not have attempted this cut...but I have to say...all the normal precautions were taken...flattened bottom...slow cut...keen thin kerf blade....half a million in insurance....first aid trained accomplice standing by with a DSLR and a box of plasters.... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Yup...I think it was safe enough! :shock: 

More on the "cutting day"...as I get them.

Jim


----------



## James C

Starting to look very impressive Jimi, makes me want to get the old lathe at school running properly as she hasn't seen any action for at least 6 years before I arrived so totaling 8 now.

I think Bandsaw cuts like that are probably safer than some of the regular ones, as you are so brown trouser you don't get complacent and end up making the most controlled cuts of your life!


----------



## Phil Pascoe

There is, of course, one way to guarantee nothing unusual happens - have a camera with you!


----------



## bugbear

jimi43":2xsmhav4 said:


> I don't know if I am going to cut my own knurl of sorts by hand (read lathe) or whether I'm going to use a knurling tool straight....but this has a beautiful set of gnashers...typical American engineering...over engineered and stunningly made....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Cadillac of knurling tools for sure!



There are TWO distinct types of knurling tool; one type (cheaper) relies on the lathe's toolpost (and compound rest) to drive the knurling. Since knurling is mainly a cold forging process, the forces involved are high, and a smaller lathe may not be rigid enough to handle them well. 

This is your Cadillac, which would be fine in a large industrial lathe.

The "other kind" puts the pressure on by having the 2 wheels opposite each other, so all the force is taken directly by the screw that draws them together, which puts MUCH less force on the lathe. 

http://brassandtool.com/Metal-Cutting.html

http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/K ... _Tool.html

BugBear


----------



## Harbo

I have to agree with BB here.
I have a double wheel clamping type (which I bought from RDGTools or Chronos?).
I can just about manage 20mm brass rod on my tiny Unimat with that.

Rod


----------



## jimi43

bugbear":25ofb38c said:


> jimi43":25ofb38c said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if I am going to cut my own knurl of sorts by hand (read lathe) or whether I'm going to use a knurling tool straight....but this has a beautiful set of gnashers...typical American engineering...over engineered and stunningly made....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Cadillac of knurling tools for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are TWO distinct types of knurling tool; one type (cheaper) relies on the lathe's toolpost (and compound rest) to drive the knurling. Since knurling is mainly a cold forging process, the forces involved are high, and a smaller lathe may not be rigid enough to handle them well.
> 
> This is your Cadillac, which would be fine in a large industrial lathe.
> 
> The "other kind" puts the pressure on by having the 2 wheels opposite each other, so all the force is taken directly by the screw that draws them together, which puts MUCH less force on the lathe.
> 
> http://brassandtool.com/Metal-Cutting.html
> 
> http://www.hemingwaykits.com/acatalog/K ... _Tool.html
> 
> BugBear
Click to expand...


Spot on BB/Rod...as discussed before on another thread. I have tried this type of knurl on my new lathe and it works fine...not a vast amount of pressure needed just the first..."smack in" to establish a clean primary cut and then take it easy.....

I'll put some pictures up of a test I did earlier sometime today. I am more worried about bearing damage but that's more of a discussion for another forum.

In actual fact...I will probably be cutting the grip pattern (similar but not copying Karl) in the end.

Jim


----------



## Cheshirechappie

A small tip with knurling, used by some fine instrument and machine-tool makers - use a diamond pattern knurl for knobs that will be pulled and pushed, and a straight knurl for knobs that will be turned (like the finger-grips on lever cap screws).

Obviously, the world will not stop turning if someone uses a diamond pattern knurl on a lever cap screw, but I just thought I'd mention it for those who like to have things 'right'.


----------



## Mr Ed

Here's one I made;






The force of applying the knurling is huge and I've found the best way to do it is to apply the knurl while the fat bit of the screw is still attached to the bar stock it is being made from (3/4" I think in this case) so there is something substantial to push against. As a further precaution I have also done it with a tailstock centre in a suitable centre hole at the other end of the workpiece to give some support to push against.

I have found knurling to be hugely frustrating and got varying results for what I thought were the same parameters / conditions - I think you just have to have a go and see what works on your lathe.

Ed

EDIT - I remembered writing how I do a thumbscrew in this old thread here post486164.html?hilit=lathe#p486164 Not saying my way is right, but it's generated reasonable results for me.


----------



## jimi43

Hi Ed

Great information mate...and I have the stock between the chuck and tailstock centre to minimise lateral pressure on the headstock....well...as much as possible.

I have a Chronos one but to be honest...the quality of the Chinese one versus this American jobbie is like chalk and cheese...

I am at present trawling through he various designs both ancient and modern...something to think about when the nights are too cold!

Cheers

Jim


----------



## richarnold

Hi jim I'm more than happy to post you a copy of the handle shape, but i was wondering if i could scan it, and send it in a file to you? I'm not sure about how this effects the scale. I'm sure that by coating the inside of the infill should stop any staining of the oak. I tend to find that the black marks only occur when there is any moisture about, so unless you intend to work in the rain, I don't think it will give you to much trouble!. I have never found a better iron than a Ward, and It's worth noting that all of the early planes by dear old Thomas seem to be fitted with them


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard

Thanks mate...a quick squiggle around it in pencil will do...and you your panel if you have time.

That is just the perfect shape!

Not sure how you are going to get that lump in the scanner!! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## Racers

Hi, Richard

You could cut it in half and put it on your scanner :shock: :wink: 

Pete


----------



## bugbear

richarnold":217gerex said:


> Hi jim I'm more than happy to post you a copy of the handle shape, but i was wondering if i could scan it, and send it in a file to you? I'm not sure about how this effects the scale. I'm sure that by coating the inside of the infill should stop any staining of the oak. I tend to find that the black marks only occur when there is any moisture about, so unless you intend to work in the rain, I don't think it will give you to much trouble!. I have never found a better iron than a Ward, and It's worth noting that all of the early planes by dear old Thomas seem to be fitted with them



Put the camera a fair way away from the plane to reduce perspective effects (say 8-10 feet) then use optical zoo to magnify the handle - this also reduces barrel distortion, which is an issue with wide angle lenses.

The plane needs to be "square on" to the camera (ideally), but a REALLY good way to make sure any glitches can be post correct is to put a piece of squared paper (graph paper) behind the plane.

Any photographic "glitches" will effect the paper AND the plane, and the photo can be tweaked until the squares are ... square.

The squares also provide a scale, although since the paper is a different distance, this would need to be accounted for. if the camera-object distance is high, the difference in scale is minimal.

BugBear


----------



## Richard T

So that Handle has influenced three planes to my knowledge - Bill Carter's jointer in Yew, my panel in Walnut and now Jimi's. 

Any more we don't know about Richard?


----------



## richarnold

Not that i know of Richard!!!, but you never know. mind you ,it's only gained showbiz status in the last year or so. I have posted a full size drawing of the handle, and it's position on the body, so hopefuly this will arrive tomorrow Jim. I forgot to add to the drawing that the thickness of the handle is 1 3/32 of an inch. Hope this helps, Richard.


----------



## jimi43

richarnold":1xf85t0t said:


> Not that i know of Richard!!!, but you never know. mind you ,it's only gained showbiz status in the last year or so. I have posted a full size drawing of the handle, and it's position on the body, so hopefuly this will arrive tomorrow Jim. I forgot to add to the drawing that the thickness of the handle is 1 3/32 of an inch. Hope this helps, Richard.



You're a star Richard!! Thank you so much for that...I think the plane will need an agent soon!

By the way..I happened upon this little Scottish smoother today...






I bought this on FleaBay for a song...all the bits that need restoration on it are right up there in the "practice for Richard's" category...to give me a chance to make sure that I get his perfect....

I guess you can see now how nervous I am! :lol: 

I will make that restoration another thread entirely...watch this space over the coming days!

Cheers again mate

Jim


----------



## Racers

Hi, Jim

Nice plane, just needs a buff with the Renaissance wax :shock: 

Pete


----------



## AndyT

jimi43":3icxyhg4 said:


> richarnold":3icxyhg4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not that i know of Richard!!!, but you never know. mind you ,it's only gained showbiz status in the last year or so. I have posted a full size drawing of the handle, and it's position on the body, so hopefuly this will arrive tomorrow Jim. I forgot to add to the drawing that the thickness of the handle is 1 3/32 of an inch. Hope this helps, Richard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You're a star Richard!! Thank you so much for that...I think the plane will need an agent soon!
> 
> By the way..I happened upon this little Scottish smoother today...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought this on FleaBay for a song...all the bits that need restoration on it are right up there in the "practice for Richard's" category...to give me a chance to make sure that I get his perfect....
> 
> I guess you can see now how nervous I am! :lol:
> 
> I will make that restoration another thread entirely...watch this space over the coming days!
> 
> Cheers again mate
> 
> Jim
Click to expand...


Oh Jim, that's a shame. How come you took that one under your wing but didn't buy this far more deserving case of plane abuse - a fine example of stuffing till it canna take any more! :lol: :lol:


----------



## jimi43

Out of the zone of the magical wax Peter...which is just as well!

Andy...I did see that monstrosity.....I don't wish to discuss it in decent company!! :mrgreen: 

The gauge stock arrived today...so irons and cap irons are on the cards...also I received a letter from RichardA which contained a beautiful outline of the model Norris handle!

How you got that here in that time Richard is beyond me but many thanks indeed!

Off to work...grrrrrrrr  

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Today was the first day I was not either at work...(even though I am supposed to be retired! :roll: ), visiting family or working on tuning the lathe and milling machine in readiness for building the metal bits of this plane.

So...having received the tracing of the, now famous Norris from Richard.....






...I decided to make a test handle today..again from mahogany.

Richard...this tracing was invaluable mate...not only for the shape but the subtle angle of the handle relative to the infill base.

So...first to trace it out....






That worked ok....






Back again to the Burgess three-wheeler bandsaw...with the Tuff Saw blade made short work of cutting the outside....






As you can see...this little saw is perfect for cuts like this with tight turns and sweeping curves....






....really beautiful shape this handle....Mr Norris knew what he was doing and I think this sets him apart from the rest.

Now the difficult bit and the bit I hate the most...inside cuts with no lead in....

First...using a Forstner bit of the appropriate size to give the difficult outer acute turns the best finish....I drilled two holes...






A tip here for those of you not using one of these bits before...set the depth so that the spike just comes through the other side and then turn it over and use the exposed hole to cut the other way to avoid splitting out....






Now for why I hate cutting large holes...the jigsaw! Bloody horrible things and when I do the real handle I will use a fretsaw but for now a rough and ready way of doing it...using the finest blade I have...






Cheap rubbish from "a shed"...I really must get some decent ones some day!






YUCK!!!

Couple of sanding drums on the drill press later (camera not around for obvious reasons!!)......






I need to change the drum and smooth it out later but we're nearly there....






I have to cut the mortice this afternoon but note how the base has been slightly adjusted to make the handle lie at the right angle....






...a small but important tweak to ensure it sits right later.

I have ordered a handle maker's rasp from Noel at Logier as I have used one during the passaround and was really impressed.

This one has a safe side and I shall report how it performs on the remaining handle shaping when I receive it.

This is really coming along now....






....and truly a joint effort from quite a number of people here on the forum....

Jim


----------



## AndyT

Just checking... is this still the practice run? It's looking good enough to keep - which is no surprise to anyone who has seen your work - if I could achieve that I'd be tempted to just stick with it. (But I'm not retired so don't have as much time on my hands...)


----------



## jimi43

AndyT":2c21o371 said:


> Just checking... is this still the practice run? It's looking good enough to keep - which is no surprise to anyone who has seen your work - if I could achieve that I'd be tempted to just stick with it. (But I'm not retired so don't have as much time on my hands...)



Yes Andy...it is indeed just a dry run...always assuming I can get the darn infill out again! :mrgreen: 

My view is that the metalwork that Richard has achieved is so perfect that anything other than that would not do it justice...and since I have never filled a plane of this type before...I thought I had better practice! :wink: 

The back infill will be done in two sections...and bookmatched so that should prove easier.

I think I might give the milling machine with chuck an airing this afternoon for the mortice...should keep things straighter than the drill press!

More later.

Jim


----------



## dickm

Not an expert in this field at all, but why the rather elegant but extravagant tail (headpiece? ponytail?) at the top-rear of the handle? Maybe my hands are a funny shape, but I'd expect that extended piece to wear holes in the skin on the back of the hand between thumb and forefinger if used for any length of time. 
(Possibly it is my hands, as I've once or twice had to modify saw handles with this sort of shape to prevent discomfort)


----------



## jimi43

dickm":2xmsuzwg said:


> Not an expert in this field at all, but why the rather elegant but extravagant tail (headpiece? ponytail?) at the top-rear of the handle? Maybe my hands are a funny shape, but I'd expect that extended piece to wear holes in the skin on the back of the hand between thumb and forefinger if used for any length of time.
> (Possibly it is my hands, as I've once or twice had to modify saw handles with this sort of shape to prevent discomfort)



Oh..it's not going to be like that when it's finished....that is just over-cut so I have enough to trim back to "what looks right" when i've finished.

This temporary infill is intended as something to be experimented with.

Jim


----------



## pedder

jimi43":3kamovwb said:


> dickm":3kamovwb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not an expert in this field at all, but why the rather elegant but extravagant tail (headpiece? ponytail?) at the top-rear of the handle? Maybe my hands are a funny shape, but I'd expect that extended piece to wear holes in the skin on the back of the hand between thumb and forefinger if used for any length of time.
> (Possibly it is my hands, as I've once or twice had to modify saw handles with this sort of shape to prevent discomfort)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh..it's not going to be like that when it's finished....that is just over-cut so I have enough to trim back to "what looks right" when i've finished.
> 
> This temporary infill is intended as something to be experimented with.
> 
> Jim
Click to expand...

reminds me of Klaus made a new handle/tote for my LV BUJ a few years ago:







The evolution:






Cheers 
Pedder


----------



## jimi43

It looks great Pedder but do you not think that the Flying Angel is a bit of an accident waiting to happen?

In actual fact...even with this extended tail...the tip does not cut into the hand...it just flies over it!

I will probably cut this one back about 3/4 of the existing length...it's over by about 2cm at the moment.

So..how did the test with the milling machine go?

First...let me say that I will probably be doing the real mortice by hand in keeping with most of the build but I wanted to play...and see how it performed.....

To be honest...it was so good and fast and effortless that I might even do the real one this way...but since it's joined down the middle...it hardly seems worth the setup. It's true what they say....using a milling machine..the setup is 95% of the work!






I was going to use a larger mill...but I wanted to control the width and creep up on it....






....so I stuck with the smaller one...12mm I think.






It fair rips though the mahogany and I think when I get to the burr oak..it may come in handy in some areas.

Anyway...it worked like a dream....






....tight as a duck's..... :mrgreen: 

When I do the actual one I think I will undersize the mortice and do a step tenon on the handle...it adds another problem...following the contour...but it will take up any errors in the joint...not that there are any this time (never is with a "test"!!!) :mrgreen: 

Ok that's it for today...I need to make the mortice deeper..I think the handle is too high and the hole needs to be closer if not flush with the tail infill....again..I intend to creep up on this until I think it looks right.






This week I shall make an unhardened iron...test this and then try to get some brass/gunmetal for making the lever cap....

I'm having a bit of a problem sourcing a suitable piece of stock...thick enough and wider than 2".....anyone know a stockist who is likely to have such a size. I only want a small piece (lengthwise)....

Cheers

Jim


----------



## AndyT

jimi43":1cblg5cl said:


> This week I shall make an unhardened iron...test this and then try to get some brass/gunmetal for making the lever cap....
> 
> I'm having a bit of a problem sourcing a suitable piece of stock...thick enough and wider than 2".....anyone know a stockist who is likely to have such a size. I only want a small piece (lengthwise)....
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jim



One place that I would try if it was me is Avery Knight and Bowler. They don't get mentioned on here so you may not have tried them. They are a real survivor - Bowler's Engineering was a Victorian brassfoundry and general engineers who branched out into making fizzy pop. When their building was demolished for a road scheme, the contents were moved into a fantastic little museum.

The current company describe their stock here http://www.averyknight.co.uk/itemclas.php/clashist/-1,363,364/findclas/364 but you'd have to call and ask. I could easily pop over and get it if there was a problem with having them post it.


----------



## Harbo

Just out of interest here' a pic of a Norris - sorry not in full profile?






Nice handles Pedder, but wasn't there some talk about Veritas making their handles more up-right to suit their design/handling?
Your final one is very rakish?  

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Really helpful Andy! Thanks mate.

I will ring them tomorrow and see. Will let you know.

The only other idea that I had was to get a casting from Bristol Designs....again..I would prefer to make my own to fit precisely but if they were to cast one that fit by just milling to the right size that might be an option.

Jim


----------



## AndyT

They definitely had some on the shelf when I was last in there, but I fear that might deprive you of the chance to make a distinctive KT Tools design!


----------



## pedder

Harbo":v5nu465d said:


> Nice handles Pedder, but wasn't there some talk about Veritas making their handles more up-right to suit their design/handling?
> Your final one is very rakish?
> 
> Rod


Hi Rod, thanks, 

I'll foward the compliments to Klaus, who made these (before we made saws together)

Don't believe everything Rob tells you. Most of it but not everything! The planes feel and work better with the raked handles. 
At least on low benches as mine.


Cheers Pedder


----------



## jimi43

Rod...somehow I missed your picture and post on the original Norris...and you can see that the O in the handle is lower...not by much...these things have a tendency to fool the eye and you dig out more than you need but will play with this tomorrow probably.

I am waiting on the rasp as I don't want to do this with a router bit really...I don't mind joints being made by machine but the handle is a different matter.

Might play with the bun design tomorrow...I have an idea about thumbs which might or might not work...we shall see.

I suppose I could now also get on with the iron and cap iron as the gauge plate is here....

I didn't get a chance to call the company about the brass Andy...will be doing that tomorrow afternoon as well.....

Cheers 

Jim


----------



## Cheshirechappie

Jimi - if Bowlers don't come up with the goods, try The College Engineering Supply in the Wet Midlands ( www.collegeengineering.co.uk ) for ground flat stock. They do 3" x 3/16" and 3" x 1/4" in 9" lengths. They also do blocks of bronze sawn to your sizes if that helps with lever cap material.


----------



## jimi43

Cheshirechappie":1ttgwf08 said:


> Jimi - if Bowlers don't come up with the goods, try The College Engineering Supply in the Wet Midlands ( http://www.collegeengineering.co.uk ) for ground flat stock. They do 3" x 3/16" and 3" x 1/4" in 9" lengths. They also do blocks of bronze sawn to your sizes if that helps with lever cap material.



Hi CC

I have the gauge plate stock for the iron and the cap iron already....it's the brass I'm having problems with. I need to get about 3" wide... a couple of inches high and about 4" in length to make a proper job.

Thanks for all the links...will ring around tomorrow and order.

I would have liked gunmetal but that is not easy to come by in any size let alone large dimension blocks.

Jim


----------



## Cheshirechappie

Sorry Jimi - I misread!

However, all is not lost. College Engineering's standard grade of sawn block bronze is SAE660, which is, to all intents and purposes, leaded gunmetal. From experience, I can tell you that it machines very nicely, and can be brought to a nice finish. I think they can provide in far bigger blocks than you'll need; the problem will be VAT and postage charges, but t'was ever thus on smallish quantities!


----------



## jimi43

Cheshirechappie":267sreu5 said:


> Sorry Jimi - I misread!
> 
> However, all is not lost. College Engineering's standard grade of sawn block bronze is SAE660, which is, to all intents and purposes, leaded gunmetal. From experience, I can tell you that it machines very nicely, and can be brought to a nice finish. I think they can provide in far bigger blocks than you'll need; the problem will be VAT and postage charges, but t'was ever thus on smallish quantities!



Excellent information as usual CC...I didn't know that was what is gunmetal...I just like the look of it. I had visions of popping over to Greenwich and sawing a few feet of a cannon! :mrgreen: 

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers again

Jim


----------



## jimi43

As I wait for the rasp..I thought that I was quite satisfied with the handle shape and so bit the bullet and decided to make the real one.

After choosing the right area of the burr oak board to avoid major through pockets....I thought I would put the Burgess 3 -wheeler through her paces and push her to the limits....






I have pushed this machine and blade to what I thought were the limit before but I wondered if I could just turn really acute corners....and it did!






Notice too how close to the line I could go with no wander...no hesitation and crisp lines.

This bandsaw is phenomenal...carrying the Tuffsaw blade...on curves and straight lines...it just goes where you point it!

Remember...this is oak and pretty thick oak too!






Next I flattened both sides and made them smooth and parallel using the Barron smoother...






I kept on smiling all the way through this...

You know it IS all about the tools...for me anyway. There is something about a highly tuned piece of art which makes me want to work to the best of my ability...and be able to!

So...now the hole is marked out...






...it's on to the next stage.

For the hole this time around I thought I would use a fretsaw...as promised...and how much more tranquil this job was...






This was remarkably quick...even through thick oak....






...but the control you can exercise is much greater than the jigsaw...and a LOT quieter! :mrgreen: 

Start and finish are a bit ropey but apart from that there is little I need to clean up...






So...next to the prototype...






I am so glad that I picked up this burr oak from MAC Timbers...it was the largest piece there but it allowed me to pick the best areas for the parts of this plane...






This is going to be drop dead gorgeous when it's finished!

Next job...sort out the same for the base and get on and order that brass!!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## pedder

Wow, this will be pretty!

Cheers Pedder


----------



## Richard T

... and strong. =D> Good stuff Jim.


----------



## condeesteso

looking brilliant, a nice piece of burr, and generally that must be a good choice for this component, with short grain every-which-way. But the long tail (whatever it's called) looks a little risky to me. Academic as you won't be dropping it of course.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Pedder...from you that is some comment! 8) I do think we share the same interest in wonderful woods and grain...the uniqueness is what I look for...everyone can use mahogany or rosewood! :mrgreen: :wink: 

Richard my friend...after the wonders you worked with steel...I cannot let this thing be "ordinary"! If this doesn't work it comes out again...until it's perfect...nothing but that will be accepted! 

Indeed Douglas...that tail is a "you can take it off but you can't put it on" tail.

It will be nowhere near that long...I just made it that way for now until I know how long it needs to be to be "right". I predict half at least will be cut off and rounded.

Last evening at work tonight so I will be able to concentrate on this and the smoother a little more now.

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Liogier

Hello Jim,

I have finished today to stitch your left-handed handlemaker rasp. There is still quite some operations to do (heat treatment, etc.) but I should be able to ship it to you before the end of next week.
Regards,

Noel


----------



## jimi43

Liogier":eec9csx8 said:


> Hello Jim,
> 
> I have finished today to stitch your left-handed handlemaker rasp. There is still quite some operations to do (heat treatment, etc.) but I should be able to ship it to you before the end of next week.
> Regards,
> 
> Noel



Great news Noel....I look forward to trying it out on this handle.

Take your time...the best things can't be rushed! :wink: 

Jim


----------



## Harbo

Jim - saw a piece of phosphor bronze at the Warwick MEX show today.
Noggin Ends had a 1" x 2" x 3" for the princely sum of £34!

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Harbo":2c3fg033 said:


> Jim - saw a piece of phosphor bronze at the Warwick MEX show today.
> Noggin Ends had a 1" x 2" x 3" for the princely sum of £34!
> 
> Rod



Hi Rod

Thanks for the tip mate...

That piece is a tiny bit too small for what I need (width-wise) but I will email them to see if they have a piece.

Cheers

Jim


----------



## jimi43

A couple of months have passed during which time I concentrated on practising on the Scottish Infill Smoother...and the triple checking you have to do to get the infill tight and following the contour. Today I thought of the mistake I made...and was determined not to make the same mistake here. 

There are a couple of things aiding me...firstly and foremost...Richard's engineering skills are far greater than the old cast smoother body....and so there is no variation in the geometry anywhere.

Secondly this is not overstuffed so it is a bit easier...but not by much...it's all very easy to think you can relax at any time!

Anyway...yesterday...the first thing I had to do was to join the two halves of the tail infill section so they were hardened by today.....







This was not done to ease the making of the mortice, rather to get a bookmatched finish on the wood. The burr is such a crazy grain though that whatever you try to do...bookmatching is a gamble.....whatever is inside is a present just waiting to be opened...good or bad!

The blocks were way oversized...as you can see....






...but again...that old Burgess made swift work of the two "off cuts!!"

We are still about 8mm over here...4mm each side so that I can slowly creep up on the exact width. A fraction of a mm out means you get a sloppy fit rather than a tight fit.

I then took most of the excess off with the mill on one side only....







This gave me a reference side which was perfectly flattened....and then I used that size to make the opposite side exactly parallel....






I wanted to do this to ensure it fitted perfectly but I then made the base at exact right angles using this little beauty....






A bit wide for a jointer...so once I squared up one side I took the fence off and levelled the other side....

...ALFIE was not impressed...this is a long plane to come at you from left field!!!






After that I smoothed the whole lot using my other gem from Phil.....






It didn't even blink through all of the burr and between the two of these marvels...gave me the third side...flat and square.

The final side needed no finishing as this will be cut away later as you will see.

Now to test fit....it was a bit of a struggle and involved quite a large mallet but it went in perfectly....






This is exactly the fit I wanted...certainly not loose but not too tight so that it forced the sides out of parallel...the steel spacer was just held in place...Perfect!

Oh...and I tested the angles on the other lever cap...it's a bit small but you get the idea. And look! The brass arrived for the real one!






I finally sourced a superb place...Mallard Metals in Brum....and it only cost £40 courier delivered inc. VAT.

A major find this place and superb blokes there who listened to all I needed and came up with the goods. This is machinable and will end up the closest colour to gunmetal when it's finished! Result! 

So after a few cups of coffee to steady my nerves...I bit the bullet...trusted in the Burgess and hit the final cuts...






The dreaded curve! And it came up trumps yet again. It was crying near the end but this blade has cut loads of really hard wood lately...so it may need changing soon.....but before I did...how about cutting the notch for the bed insert....






This is a Trojan bit of kit you know. I wouldn't swap it for all the gizmos in China now!

So...did it fit...you bet it did....






This is really going to polish up beautifully.......... 






.......once I've cut the mortice and stepped tenon for the handle....






Notice here how much the handle has darkened just sitting there for a few months relative to the fresh cut wood.

Oh...and I checked the bed too....






There are a few cracks and chips which is to be expected but these are hidden and will be filled with resin anyway.

The worst bit is over now....so I can concentrate on that lever cap...and the knob. Now that I have the mill...that's going to be a breeze!

More later once I've defrosted!! 

Oh.....did you like the gloves! They are Annie's and she's not that impressed as being hairy wool...they seem to have acquired a few shavings today...

I told her...sometimes you have to make sacrifices to achieve the results under adverse conditions! :mrgreen: 

That didn't help!!!  

Jim


----------



## GazPal

Very sweet work and coming along very nicely Jim


----------



## Richard T

What a beautiful bit of infill. Seems a shame to have to chop a big hole in it. Good job there's a lovely handle to go into the hole.  

Any thoughts about the bun? 

You just beat me to it with the brass - Emma has next week off and we plan to go into Snow Hill on the train ( hope its name has not become literal by then) with a good carrier bag and see what off cuts are hanging about at Keatley Non-Ferrous.

What thickness brass did you decide on btw??


----------



## jimi43

Hi Richard

I was a bit disappointed at first because parts of this section were quite plain and bookmatching didn't really stand a chance as there was a lot of transition at this point to get a true mirror image. However...just where the handle mortice will be cut is the boring bit and then the sides of that will be in harmony...so that worked out OK in the end.

Also...I want the handle itself to stand out...this is where most of the burr is. I have some filling to do first with some dark brown coloured resin.

The bun will be traditional...along the lines of the ones S&S make...wedding cake I think it's called. I want to do the iron and cap iron...plus lever cap first...have a bit of a break from the woodwork and play with the mill. I need to fire up the kiln so I want to make a whole batch of irons at once to push a few projects through....some replacement irons for other planes and some marking knives I have in the planning stage.

The brass is 3/4" thick...3" x 4".

This is thinner than I thought at first and is still way over. It wasn't until I got the one from Andy he picked up at Bristol Designs for me that I was able to confirm that would be thick enough. Just shaving off 1/4" removes a lot of costly brass from the price...about £20 by the look of it....and that matters. I am even keeping all the milling from the work I do now...sell it back it's so expensive!

No work today...the weather is horrendous here....where is all this water coming from!???? I tell ya...if the local council impose a hosepipe ban this year I will personally go down their offices and insert a very large sprinkler where the sun doesn't shine either!!! :mrgreen: 

Cheers mate

Jimi


----------



## Harbo

Nice job Jim

What grade of brass did you get - was it priced by the Kg - most of the bits at the ME Shows seem to be priced that way?

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Harbo":3ihwg8n9 said:


> Nice job Jim
> 
> What grade of brass did you get - was it priced by the Kg - most of the bits at the ME Shows seem to be priced that way?
> 
> Rod



Hi Rod

That was a casting from Bristol Designs....really machined well but I have no idea what the composition was.

The lump I bought for Richard's infill....was CZ121 which is very free machining. It looks about the perfect colour too...we shall see.

I have just blued it up so will do all the marking up now the rain has stopped and the temperature risen slightly. I really can't wait to get all my insulation in place so that I can spend more time in the shop. It's about 1/4 way there!

Take care

Jim


----------



## Racers

Hi, Jim

That mill will come in handy for cuting the handle mortice.
I used epoxy with ground instant coffee to fill the knots in my pippy oak, but Araldite went off extremly quickly, just after I had mixed it, so I had to use cheap Wilcos epoxy which went off at the normal rate.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":r5t3wh3z said:


> Hi, Jim
> 
> That mill will come in handy for cuting the handle mortice.
> I used epoxy with ground instant coffee to fill the knots in my pippy oak, but Araldite went off extremly quickly, just after I had mixed it, so I had to use cheap Wilcos epoxy which went off at the normal rate.
> 
> Pete



Hi Pete

Thanks mate...that is a handy tip..I probably would have wasted the Araldite I have.

I'll get some cheap stuff...though Wilkinsons don't appear to have it on their website...I'll see if Annie can check when she goes into town.

I have some Davids Isopon resin...I'll do a test with that today.

Richard....any chance of measuring the thickness and the length of the brass lever cap on your plane please?

I want to make sure I get the geometry right...

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Since the weather warmed up a bit after dark (yeah really!!)....and it stopped raining...I decided to turn nocturnal and fit the handle.

As you said Pete...the mill is the machine for making accurate mortice and tenon joints where they really must fit perfectly!

So...here we go...






I made the step in the tenon such that it left just over 14mm for the actual tenon....which allowed me to use a stock mill diameter to cut the mortice...






ALFIE wanted to help...






He doesn't do metric so I have to use "finger" measures....






Apparently I'm about 0.4mm out or "that much" in fingers!

So...without actually spinning the mill while my "fingers" were near it...I expanded it a bit on the Y axis with ALFIE's help....and test fitted the handle....






By JOVE! I think he's right! :mrgreen: 






I tell you what...the DRO is magic for these jobs...totally accurate...a invaluable addition which allows me to creep up on the fit....






For the hand tool purists I did actually use my 150 year old block chariot to trim the rest of the ends and if you can see there is a little bit of adjustment to be done on the shoulder...to make a perfect fit but I'll do that when I'm less tired and I will be using the micro shoulder plane by Veritas which Pedder kindly gave me.






For those people who think that thing's a gimmick...it is absolutely perfect for precision jobs like this.

More on that tomorrow....

Night guys and gals!

Jimi


----------



## morfa

Lovely update again Jimi. Looks wonderful. Can't wait to see it finished. It's great to see all the photos and the detail, great fun to read.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Morfa!

Yesterday I had a discussion with Richard A and we have discovered that no matter what the width of the lever cap, the length stays the same.

I guess this is a geometry issue for the infill shapes but we are still studying this....meantime...I have marked the final dimensions on the block of brass in readiness for milling:






My next job is to sharpen the iron on the little shoulder plane...and if I hear anyone moan about bevels I will send them this to sharpen....






:mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I'm used to small chisels so it wasn't too difficult...if you concentrate on the face and then hit the bevel once....






So...to put this darling to work...






Quite a few tiny areas to level and to correct the profile....

More later

Jim


----------



## Richard T

I remember reading somewhere - on lever caps - to drill the hole (for the screw) first then shape around it. Does that sound familiar? Sounds sensible to me. 

I hope that the scariest part is over and that you are enjoying it now Jim. You're doing a smashing job. 

Don't forget to shape the sides/tops of the back end before you get the handle immovably in - otherwise it could get a little awkward.


----------



## jimi43

Richard T":2l6s0et2 said:


> I remember reading somewhere - on lever caps - to drill the hole (for the screw) first then shape around it. Does that sound familiar? Sounds sensible to me.
> 
> I hope that the scariest part is over and that you are enjoying it now Jim. You're doing a smashing job.
> 
> Don't forget to shape the sides/tops of the back end before you get the handle immovably in - otherwise it could get a little awkward.



Eminently sensible Richard...and I guess that's why you are the sharp bits expert!!! I would have probably got there in the end logically but not necessarily guaranteed!  

The way I will probably approach that is to drill the hole...then centre that with a bolt onto my 110mm rotary table and let the DRO do the arc work. As this will involved reading the Chinglish handbook I am obviously looking forward to that bit! #-o 

And yes...the back will be finished before I mount the handle and I might even shape the handle first too! :wink: :wink: 8) 

On that subject...how would you shape the tail metalwork? Just round off the corners?

Jim


----------



## AndyT

I just wanted to say 'keep it up Jim' - I predict that this thread (and some of your others) will become the new go-to resource for anyone considering making their own infill plane. Really useful attention to detail and discussion of the 'why' as well as the 'how'. Excellent stuff.


----------



## Richard T

On the one I made early on this year I just rounded them;






Easy enough on the eye, fingers and wood I suppose but I thought you were thinking about Raquel Walsh's posterior ... (again) ? It's entirely up to you. Rounded at the front with a posterior at the back? (where else ...) The world's your lobster.

One thing I meant to say about rounding over/tapering the tops of the sides - it's quite a job on a plane that long so I used a Dreadnought to do most of the grunt before smoothing with something like a saw file cut and in the tighter concavities, a flap wheel; not in a drill but just held in the hand, pressed and turned into the curves. Works a treat. 

The flat on top of the Cupid's Bow is more fiddly though - smooth emery round a dowel is the order of the day for finishing those.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Andy...but remember...this is my first attempt at one of these so I would hope the balls ups are more help than anything else mate! :mrgreen: 

Just looking at the R.Welch of Richard's one above...methinks he was being extremely modest in his woodie infill abilities too! Eh Richard! 8) 

I did a bit of research on the bevelling and came to the conclusion I actually like Norris' solution...don't bevel the cupid's bow bit at all...a point that Karl copies in his beautiful A1....







*Picture from the Holtey Plane website...*

The rear is just as Karl does it too so shall we just go with shamelessly copying Thomas and Karl? Seems a cheek not to! 8) 

Jim


----------



## jimi43

I tinkered with the handle tonight.....






The grain and burr in the handle stock has exceeded my expectations...






My little Universe in miniature as I have said many times before about burrs.






Richard T and Richard A....I've gone with a more classical Norris handle with the transition at the bottom right.

I like this powerful back to the handle and the delicate...almost feminine front with the little upturn and splay to the bottom.

I was getting a bit worried Richard as the step did not follow the base in places...then a HUGE "DOH!!! (homer) (homer) " hit me...

It's not been smoothed out yet has it!  

That's the next job!.....and your views on bevels gratefully received!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Not quite sure what you mean there Jim ... What Doh! ? Looks good to me ... ????


----------



## jimi43

Richard T":3p7kapko said:


> Not quite sure what you mean there Jim ... What Doh! ? Looks good to me ... ????



See where the black line is on the bottom of the handle...from there left about one inch...the tenon step has a gap to the tail infill.

But if you look...that part is lower at the edge than either side of that where the handle does fit flush.

So if I remove the rises to the metal in those areas the whole handle will drop left and right bringing the middle into line!

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Well you can take the steel down too - the shape is very flexible. It's a blank canvas. With the infill in without the handle it can be shaped in situ (draw filed) steel and all. Then the tenon shoulders/tenon re adjusted.

I suppose this wouldn't happen with a straight - through, handle size mortise but it's a trade-off. Very daunting doing a straight - through with the curve on the back of the handle to consider.


----------



## Pekka Huhta

It looks beautiful, both the wood and the profile on the handle. Beautiful. 

Do you still intend to modify the shape of the handle before finishing it? I think the side profile is brilliant, but at least I prefer a rounder, or even a fully oval cross-section for the handle. A handle just fills the hand much better that way and gives freedom to change your grip on the handle. 

I know Norris used handles which were flat on the sides and just rounded over on the corners, but I think that had much more to do with the manufacturing methods and much less with ergonomichs or aesthetics. 

Don't get me wrong, it is amazing as it is. Perhaps I tend to round my designs too much, but it's because I'm afraid that all corners will dig in to my hands when using the plane for a longer time. Those edges look brilliant, but they also look like they could start feeling a bit uncomfy after half a day of planing. 

Pekka


----------



## jimi43

Ah....no sorry..I think you misunderstand.....

There isn't actually a problem. The sides are perfect curves from which I took the line for the curve on the wood.....making sure I marked the two cross points for each end of the handle.

I cut the step tenon and then noticed the couple of thou gap in the middle. But if you look...when I cut the infill on the bandsaw...I went off line slightly and it is proud at the front and back..

I need to sand and finish the infill to the sides first...then the tenon will fit perfectly in line.

I'll be doing the finishing later so will show you....

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Richard T

Good, good, good good good. 

That's what comes of trying to read and understand after falling asleep in front of the fire and looking at the forum at 3.43am en-route to beddy byes.


----------



## jimi43

Hi Pekka

Thank you for your kind words...having seen your work I understand what you mean. Strangely, the flats are not at all comfortable. The front of the handle is almost a perfect right angle...just a little slope away and I tested the rear and the hand itself follow the small amount of flat...so it should be comfortable enough.

I have seen quite a few Norris handles and they do stay within a style profile but there are a huge number of subtle deviations from the example Richard A posted a few pages back...






The leading portion tends to be flat all over...with a minute curve on the inside...barely noticeable. Some follow on from the bed as a ramp for the rear portion of the iron and adjuster...






...some leave a space and curve in that lovely way and don't have the adjuster.

The rear of the handle sometimes just follows the oval of the insert...






...though these tend to be smaller panel planes.

You may very well be correct with your idea that the production would be easier to leave the flats...but I prefer this to the completely rounded handles commonly found on smoothers.

Cheers

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Richard T":ds6tak6j said:


> Good, good, good good good.
> 
> That's what comes of trying to read and understand after falling asleep in front of the fire and looking at the forum at 3.43am en-route to beddy byes.



I've been like that recently Richard...can't seem to sleep at all lately. But it is very conducive to research!! 8) 

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Pekka Huhta

Hi Jim,

I think we talk about slightly different thing. What I meant was only the part of the handle that you grip: on the first two examples there that part is oval in cross-section: you are holding a round handle, not just a square bit with corners cut off with a router as on the last picture. I understood that you are talking about the whole handle and all it's parts? 

I think for the other parts (at the front ofg the D curve in front of actual handle) sharp, nicely defined corners, arrises, facets... they are lovely. I loved Swagman's saws in the other thread just for the nicely defined lines, they give a sort of sharpness in the design that i can't ever get to mine as my style leans on surfaces that just flow into each other. But with heavy work the corners just chafe your palm. 

It's just an ergonomic thing: If you have a corner somewhere in those areas of the handle that you grip thre will also be some "grips" (positions for your hand) that may not feel comfortable. You can always avoid them by handling the plane differntly, but a smooth handle just doesn't have that kind of restrictions. So if you think of the different shapes you get to larger and larger angles between the different surfaces untill you reach an oval shape. Rounded has 90° angle between the faces, rounded ends about 110, barrel 130 and oval with no angles at all. 

Pekka


----------



## jimi43

Hi Pekka

I do understand what you mean...the rear of this handle is in fact a lot more rounded than it looks from the side.

With the highly figured grain and polish it is hard to see well...I will photograph it from the back so I can show you.

All of the Victorian infill jointers I have studied are like this...apart from maybe a few owner-made ones.

I totally agree with you regarding the ergonomics but I like the style of the flatter sides. If it turns out uncomfortable then I can easily redo it. What I can't do is add more on if I make it oval and don't like it.

I agree with you about swagman's sharp transitions...they look lovely. Once I get the final profile correct...I will run the sides against a flat surface to do the same.

At the moment I am fine tuning the bed in preparation for temporarily fixing the rear infill so that it will stay rock solid while I finish the surface profile.

Richard (T)....one quick question....I take it we can agree a 25 degree primary bevel for the iron or do you think a higher bevel will be better? I know there is a bit of a discussion on the Holtey blog where he grinds at 25 degrees and others then modify this higher. I think I would prefer to stick to the standard and then work on a secondary bevel if needed or ....I have enough thick steel to go for a second iron of a higher angle.

I am going to concentrate mostly on metalwork today...the iron, cap iron and lever cap.

Cheers

Jim


----------



## bugbear

Pekka Huhta":ioj90ucq said:


> Pekka



There's a rather lovely (and useful, in design terms) generalisation of all that: the "superellipse", which essentially has a variable, and well defined "roundness".






http://regularpolygon.org/plugins/superellipse.php

http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/furn ... tails.aspx

BugBear


----------



## jimi43

That's really helpful BB! Wonderful stuff.

I have just held up the handle to this and the inner of the rear is between cyan and black and the outer (rear) is a tad more acute than the cyan

So if you look at it this way...you see that the profile is more rounded than it appears.

It also helped me to see that one side is slightly more rounded than the other on mine which I hadn't noticed until now but I can now correct this.

Cheers mate

Jim


----------



## Richard T

I reckon it's a try plane - so iron bevel just as it would be for a smoother I should think.

It's BD, and it has a decent frog block for support so it's far from crucial.


----------



## jimi43

Richard T":3nbqdsm5 said:


> I reckon it's a try plane - so iron bevel just as it would be for a smoother I should think.
> 
> It's BD, and it has a decent frog block for support so it's far from crucial.



Silly me...of course it's bevel down.....! It's was a bit of a long day yesterday with all sorts of things going on. I wasn't thinking! So I will just grind it at 25 degrees then....I'll be cutting it on the mill anyway.

I need to temporarily fix the rear infill now to stop it from moving...I'll just use some temporary screws.

Do you reckon steel screws countersinked to protrude to the bottom of the slot and then grind down would be best or steel or brass rods?

For the lever cap screws I was going for a cheese head screw counterbored but I don't think even with this monster there is enough thickness in the sides so I would appreciate your opinion on this too.

Cheers

Jim


----------



## Racers

Hi, Jim

Brass screws in the infill filed down would get my vote. Its what holds my infills in, and some epoxy :lol: 





Countersunk screws for the cap iron.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":28xb2ke0 said:


> Hi, Jim
> 
> Brass screws in the infill filed down would get my vote. Its what holds my infills in, and some epoxy :lol:
> .......
> 
> .......
> 
> Countersunk screws for the cap iron.
> 
> Pete



I think I tend to agree with you there Pete.

Jim


----------



## Pekka Huhta

What I did for my cap iron was to drill and tap M6 threads to the cap iron. There was about 5 mm of free 6mm hole and 10 mm of thread. There were 6 mm holes in the sides of the plane. I just inserted the cap iron to its place, screwed on two partially threaded screws so that there was only the unthreaded part and bolt heads protruding from both sides of the plane. I then marked the surface of the plane side and orientation of the lever cap to the screw. Removed the bolts, cut them to length, filed a slot for a screwdriver to the end of the screwand voilá, I had removable pivot points for the cap iron and even the screw slots were aligned to the same direction as the cap iron itself. 

It's not as pretty as a smooth side with fixed pivots, but I prefer to be able to remove the cap iron as the whole thing is a proto and I may have to modify it later on. 

Pekka


----------



## jimi43

Pekka Huhta":xhvoacjc said:


> What I did for my cap iron was to drill and tap M6 threads to the cap iron. There was about 5 mm of free 6mm hole and 10 mm of thread. There were 6 mm holes in the sides of the plane. I just inserted the cap iron to its place, screwed on two partially threaded screws so that there was only the unthreaded part and bolt heads protruding from both sides of the plane. I then marked the surface of the plane side and orientation of the lever cap to the screw. Removed the bolts, cut them to length, filed a slot for a screwdriver to the end of the screwand voilá, I had removable pivot points for the cap iron and even the screw slots were aligned to the same direction as the cap iron itself.
> 
> It's not as pretty as a smooth side with fixed pivots, but I prefer to be able to remove the cap iron as the whole thing is a proto and I may have to modify it later on.
> 
> Pekka



This is also a good approach....

I have a while to ponder this so if we can discuss the merits/disadvantages of all methods on here before I proceed then I'm sure we will get the best solution.

I have an idea of doing something a bit more modern...removable if possible. I want to stay away from a complete through solution as this is going to be a solid lump of brass.

My thoughts were to put tapped steel inserts in either side of the lever cap and then have some form of modern designer fastening to screw into these inserts through the sides.

I may be over- thinking this a tad! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Hi, Jimi

My scraper plane has sprung loaded pins.

Pete


----------



## Richard T

Re the pinning of the infill I would recommend screws of some sort for now and until you've had a bit of practise with riveting. It's the easiest thing in the world to either cut them too long or too short ( and once you've started the heads there's no easy way back) or peining them up too tight ... 
Maybe nice, countersunk screws would look good with the slots intact until you decide otherwise; at least that way you can change them.


----------



## Pekka Huhta

A few images from my approach.

As a temporary solution I used just any screws that were on my desk. That wasn't pretty, but whatever method you use, threads are the most versatile, and believe me, you do want to remove the cap iron quite a few times before the plane is ready. 







Then there is just a second picture about the marking out of the screws and third one showing the final result. As you can notice, the pin is a bit loose on the hole. That's because the laser cut hole was a bit too big and a 6 mm screw does not fill it completely. But it does it's job, for a prototype.










I would say that if you want temporary, use any screw you have as long as you don't have to modify the plane (drill larger holes or countersinks on the sides etc). Also, the "stud approach" doesn't involve modifying the plane, but you can't get back once you countersink the sides.

Pekka


----------



## jimi43

Some 18 months ago this thread went strangely quiet. I had been distracted by a rather protracted observatory build in my garden which went on a tad longer than expected and is now all but finished.

The recent sad news about Richard brought me back to earth with a huge thump and I vowed to finish this plane so I can remember that truly remarkable guy until I meet him again, where no doubt he will want to discuss the finished build. 

I was a bit unsure about continuing to post on the original thread but having spoken with Emma...she wants me to so I will...I just hope I can do it justice.

So...last time we discussed Richard's panel body infill...I hadn't moved on beyond the rear infill...so let's pick it up from there.






I decided to start on the bun yesterday...I have marked out the lever cap ready for milling and hand shaping:






....but I want to come back to that as I have other ideas in the pipeline to test involving older technology...wedges and bridges! :shock: 

Ok...after clearing a few tons of junk and shavings from a mothballed workshop...and tidying the bench...I set about making the bun.






Making a quick template of the side gave me something to play with when selecting the stock...being burr it has many sides to choose from to get the best out of the figured grain and I had two blocks left over to choose from.






I roughly marked the thickness of the block so that it would be a tight, oversized fit into the front cavity...then shaved bevels all round to give me sight levels to plane to...( a fabulous tip picked up on UKW!)






I think it was Konrad Sauer who said once in his fine blog..."I am always thankful that I have infills to make infills!"....and he's darn right. This old panel plane with a Quangsheng (yes QUANGSHENG) iron...made light work of the thicknessing.

Of course...you have to check about a thousand times that you don't over-cook it but I eventually got to that magical thickness that just fits (with the aid of a sledge hammer :mrgreen: ).






Finally!!

And another Konrad tip for making sure it's a good fit...lift it up without the aid of glue, screws, rivets or nails...at the front....






...and at the same time lift it from the handle end.....






Et VOILA!

And if there is any camera shake on those two pictures it's totally down to me quaking in my boots!!! :mrgreen: 

There is some serious grain at work on this block of wood....







...I can't wait to get it out into the open! 8) 

Now..... Da Vinci I am not so excuse the rough sketch.....






Note the need for a caffeine fix at this stage!  

......before I hit the bandsaw.

Some of you may recall my affection for the little Burgess Powerline bandsaw I picked up once for a tenner. And I do now have the utmost confidence in this surprising machine......






..... but this is limit time...nearly three inches of burr oak....guides to the stops...just fits under the arm....






This little baby never ever ceases to amaze me!! :shock: Of course...the TUFF SAW/ blades are the real gems here! (wonderful stuff again, Ian! =D> )

So...a short time later and a few wiggles...






..a rough bun shape was formed.

I'd say we have some nice figuring beginning to emerge there...











Well...that's it for now...it was a bit late when I finished.....






In the next part I will cut the sides to width and tidy up the contours using the other great trick from Bill Carter...the squared end scraper chisel!

Cheers all...and Emma especially.

It's good to start work on Richard's panel infill again...I only wish it were under happier circumstances.

Jimi.


----------



## tobytools

Truly beautiful work Jimi, 
This will be a fine piece one finished, I love the idea of using a wedge and inserting a bridge, a beautiful brass bridge with a Cupid's bow, same with the chunky scroll wedge. 
I follow this thread with hunger for more. 
This plane is the combined efforts of two great craftsmen and it really shows. 
Keep it comming mate

Cheers 
TT


----------



## AndyT

Jimi, I'm really pleased you're finishing this wonderful piece of work. I'm sure you will think over and over again "I'll just talk to Richard about this bit" just as the rest of us will read a post on here and think "I wonder what Richard will say about that" before we remember the dreadful truth.


----------



## n0legs

Cracking work Jimi, that's going to be a beauty. 
First time I've seen this and I enjoyed it very much, I will be looking out for the updates.

It seems to me that Richard had quite an impact on some here and with this in mind ( and I will make no other suggestions with regards to your build ) I will say this one thing -- memorial inscription ?
Tell me to bu**** off if you like.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Toby...thanks for your feedback yesterday.

Hi Prof! All day I thought "what would Richard do/say" during the whole process. It is both sad but uplifting. I am sure he would want me to finish it and I think I will put an inscription on it too following your most excellent suggestion, nOlegs.....it seems the right thing to do.

I cut the side cheeks to the bun this afternoon and I thought I would bring out the best cutlery for the job....






I finally get to use the fine saw from my dear buddies from across the Channel...I wanted to wait for a suitably important job!

I stopped there...rough edges and all....






...as I now want to pull the infills and do the bevels on the steel so that I can match up the ledge to the bevel properly using chisels and such like.

On the basis that ALFIE is now in charge of "cleaning up" after me...a quick whiz of air denoted this had started....






....as he quickly whisked away the offcuts....






...and ATE them!

Anybody would think I didn't feed the mutt!!! :mrgreen: 

More later

Jimi AND ALFIE!


----------



## yetloh

Lovely work, Jim.

Your dog's antics reminded me of a friend of mine who has been making a hugely complex project involving very complex glue-ups. He used the old trick of making angled glue blocks which he glued to the work with animal glue with a sheet of newspaper between block and work. After glue-up these can be kncked off with a sideways blow with a hammer and the work cleaned up. He had about thirty blocks of various shapes and sizes and decided they would make good woodburner fodder, put them in the woodbasket in the lounge and went out for the evening. On returning he found them all over the floor, every one have been licked perfectly clean of glue and newspaper by his ex-guide dog retriever. Yummy, lollipops for dogs.

Jim


----------



## rafezetter

I didn't know about this thread until todays' post, but I've just read read it from start to finish - and been riveted the whole time.

The only thing I could possibly add is even though Richard T, may not have seen the final product, I'm sure he knew the care and devotion to craftsmanship you have shown Jimi43 and had every confidence you would produce something amazing.

The burr and figuring in that oak is beautiful.

Out of interest the thread name of UKW infill project suggests the finished plane had a specific destination in mind, what was the original end result going to be for the project? Auction, gift? Or was Jimi43 the intended?

I think if a gift, then maybe a gift to Emma with said inscription would be fitting? Possibly some sort of display box for it made by another member as part of the tribute?

Or Maybe Emma would like to choose what happens to it?


----------



## condeesteso

Pleased to see this build re-activated. I was there when the body was handed over and it was definitely for Jim. I'm pretty sure Richard wanted it finished (I could have added 'in a timely fashion') and used. I'm sure you will do it justice. Can I have a go when it's done 
Given the all-over grain of the burr I expect the 2L d/t saw worked rather well?


----------



## MickCheese

Jim

You are working this beautifully. I think a very fitting tribute would be to finish it to the best of your ability, and I know you will, and then use it.

I have a Stanley No.4 plane bought for me by my father as a birthday present about 30 years ago and every time I pick it up I think of him and it's nowhere near as special looking as yours or crafted with such care but to me it's priceless.

So in tribute, finish it, photograph it and use it. I think both Richard and MrsT would be proud of the collaboration and the finished result.

Mick


----------



## Mrs T

Oh yes, it's definitely Jimi's plane. Richard wanted him to have it to play with (observatory allowing). As for me, I have a whole host of orphaned planes to mind right now, and it's just lovely seeing Jimi's work go on. I know Richard's work (and knowing him, he would downplay his part in the finished plane) has gone to a good home. 

Love to all, Emma xx

PS. Edited to say, that oak is incredible.


----------



## jimi43

Thank you guys and particularly Emma for your responses and perhaps a little further history is warranted from back then.

Clearly Richard's ability working with metal was what he was comfortable with...he'd cut his teeth in the forge and was confident working with "the black stuff!".

In the "village" he would have been the smithy and a darn good one too! His holdfasts were a testament not only to his skills with metal but also his tenacity to "get it right". Such an apparently simple "hook" device is not quite as simple as it seems to work as it is intended. Richard knew this and sought the advice and beta testing of members of the forum and tweaked that basic, but important tool until he had it perfect.

Such was Richard's attention to detail. 

He also knew I tinkered in metal and particularly the hardening of steel and we often conversed here via PM as I picked his brain. But he knew I was far more comfortable with the wood side of the toolmaker's art. It was entirely his surprise that started this collaboration. In his mind...he could make the shell with his honed hands and wanted to see what I would fill it with....knowing my love of exotic and weirdly figured woods. 

This collaboration was the reason behind the title of the original thread.

In the intervening months....Richard set about filling his increasing collection of beautifully dovetailed steel shells and WE quickly discovered that he also excelled in that area and his initial worries about harmonising his woodwork with his metalwork were totally unfounded.

We have all seen his subsequent threads of this journey of discovery and the beautiful completed planes as a result. For not only was Richard an excellent all round toolmaker, but he was also supremely adept at documenting these journeys in terms that mere mortals may follow, and perhaps someday emulate.

Just trying to come close to this sort of perfection.....






....is a hard task. 

I know I am keeping busy finishing one of his first gems...I will try to do it justice...if I come close I shall be happy.

Jim


----------



## gasman

Lovely job Jimi - it is going to be beautiful and I am sure Richard would / will appreciate it
I'm all for a lever cap but I am sure will be lovely either way
Well done mate
Mark


----------



## Mr_P

+1 for lever cap

I like bridges on mitres and chariots but might look a tad old school on a big infill.

However I'm sure either way it will be stunning. Hang on, it already is =P~


----------



## rxh

Jim,
I'm following this with great interest. I too think a lever cap would be best but I'm sure whatever you come up will look great. I'm very eager to see photos of the finished article.


----------



## jimi43

Roughed out the contours of the bun today...






There are a few voids but nothing drastic...a bit of coffee/epoxy mix will sort that out.

It was so nice out today I dragged the old Swiss Zylyss vise out and worked in the sunshine with ALFIE...






I stuck some alcohol on the wood to give me a rough idea of how the grain will look when finished and there's some very interesting figuring going on....






I also rough filed the front bevel on the steel in order to match the shelf on the bun to it....






Scrapers are in order next I think!

ALFIE wanted to help out all the time...






....but he got bored and decided he needed to lay down in the sun a bit!






I will be bringing the plane along to Richard Arnold's event on Sunday as there are a number of people who have expressed interest in seeing the progress so far.

As far as the choice of lever cap/wedge...I have started on the lever cap and will test fit that first and also make a quick wedge and see what that looks like.

Cheers

Jimi and ALFIE!


----------



## richarnold

Loving the detail on the front bun =D> Really looking forward to seeing this In the flesh. I hope lots of folks turn up to see it, but I still cant quite come to terms with the fact that Richard won't be there to see it


----------



## tobytools

That's is comming along beautifully Jimi, thank you for taking the time to share this project with stunning photos and write ups.
Wish I could see it in the flesh  

Keep it up mate,
Have you made a decision on whether to have a bridge or a lever cap?

Many thanks
TT


----------



## jimi43

Indeed Richard...it is so very sad.  

I noticed just now that on the picture with ALFIE standing...there are three tools which are being used on this plane from the UKW members.

The little Veritas shoulder was a gift from Pedder....the Jarrah marking knife from Derek in Perth and the burnisher came from Matthew at WSH!

How cool is that.

Hi Toby...I think I may make the very first convertible infill plane...with both wedge and lever cap, interchangeable by undoing the two screws!!! How cool would that be! :mrgreen: 

Seriously though..there will be both made so that I can put them against the plane and decide. I have a feeling the brass lever cap will win though.

Jimi


----------



## rxh

Looking good, Jim.
I think the bold grain suits the bold style of Richard's metalwork.


----------



## pedder

Hi Jim, 

that'll come out great. Amazing wood and craftmenship.

Cheers 
Pedder


----------



## morfa

It's looking good now. Seriously good. Can't wait to see the final plane. I love that figuring.


----------



## Wilco Flier

Amazing work and wood. That will be a pleasure to work with once completed.


----------



## jimi43

Thanks to all the people at Richard Arnold's charity event who commented and gave advice on Richard's plane build...it was much appreciated.

I thought I had a problem...i.e. no ACME thread cutting gear...and today...when sorting through the metalwork cupboards looking for something completely different...I came upon a set of 3/8" 10 t.p.i. tap and die!!

Having now lost the final excuse for not getting on with the lever cap...I bit the bullet and started on the machining...with the tapped hole for the screw.

Being a cautious person...I decided to test the new tap on Corian...







Well that went well!






So....now to hit the real thing.

First a bit of research....the drill size....

Now apparently...the clearance for the thread should be different for brass than it is for steel....but trying to find how different was a nightmare of tables and weird formulae..."experts" and arguments of forums so I gave up and used the closest one I had...7.5mm






Then...bite the bullet and line up and start the tap in the mill first:






Once started I removed the chuck and used a tap wrench, backing off quite often and halfway down...completely removed the tap and using a test tube brush...cleared all the swarf before starting again on the final run. I have snapped a couple of hardened steel taps in use to take it really carefully!! Lots of cutting oil too!






By doing this...the cutting was amazingly easy.

Using a high quality cutter....






I then did a deep countersink hole which will have a shelf around it when I shape the tail of the lever cap.

I am really pleased how this came out...






The threads are super clean as you can see in this macro shot...






So...little by little we're getting there...now all I have to do is make the complementary screw!

More on that progress later!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Nice work Jim.

Pete


----------



## rxh

It looks very good, Jim.
Before you go further in shaping the cap it might be worth putting a thread on a piece of 3/8" rod and trying it for fit. I remember that RichardT found the Acme fit too sloppy for his liking so he went to great trouble and expense to obtain a thread tap and die.


----------



## rxh

Correction: I meant a square thread tap and die.


----------



## jimi43

Thanks Pete...appreciated.

Yes rxh......I did too! The tap matches the die so it should be ok but I fully intend to tap a bit of scrap first and then try it before I make a full screw.

That's the next job....Monday.

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

It was really miserable today so I decided to have a bit more time in the workshop and to move on to the "semi-rough" stage of the front bun shaping.






Following some "handling" tests at Richard Arnold's event on Sunday...the general impression was that the concave part of the hand holding should be deeper so based on this field testing I went for a much deeper curve...






This is particularly important at the back where the thumb would naturally rest as there has to be quite a bit of comfort clearance between the infill and the front of the lever cap (or wedge) when fitted.

As you can see from the "wetting" of the wood...there is now even more seriously beautiful burr figuring going on in this piece....






The bottom and middle part of the bun now being where I want it I shall now just shape the top and lower the top table a bit with a channel all around it.

Anyone who has ever done infills will note that both the back...the mouth slope and the front are not touched yet. They will be done when the infill is secured with temporary fixings because they have a habit of shrinking overnight and you do them with the metal as the target depth.

I did think a bit today about the merits of inserting a brass strike button into this table...what do the team think?

More later....

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

As the sun shone this afternoon....ALFIE and me got the Zyliss vise out and sat out on the patio to finish off the shaping of the bun...






ALFIE wanted to get involved which is fine except when you are trying to do some critical shaping!

I made a little former for the abrasive pad to polish up the bevel on both the infill and the body at the same time...






....and of course...nosey wanted to get involved...I should have realised what was going to happen at that moment!

The contour allowed me to keep the bevel and infill inline...






This worked really well and allowed me to go up the grits and keep the same profile....






However....half way through I put the sanding block down and guess what...it disappeared!

So had ALFIE!

A very guilty looking dog suddenly appeared with the chewed bits of the sanding block in his mouth! So we had to make another one...didn't we ALFIE!?

ANYWAY....we finally got the job done and a couple of coats of CELLULOSE sanding sealer on....






This highlights the scratches so I know where to redo with a rough grit tomorrow...






...but for now I am pretty pleased with the shape and it certainly sits very comfortably in the hand...






More later

Jimi


----------



## gasman

Looking good Jimi I admire your perseverance and application to complete a job started


----------



## Racers

Wow Jimi that's going to look fantastic the colour of the oak is fantastic.

A strike button would look good, how about end grain box or lilac?

Pete


----------



## Harbo

Lovely job!

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Thanks guy.

I have only applied sanding sealer so far and the final front back shaping will be done tomorrow but already the colour of the burr is coming to the surface.

Of course the best grain will only emerge after polishing and I'm going to use a few coats of Tru-Oil too, so it should look the part then.

As far as a strike button...interesting thought that Pete to use a contrasting wood! I was thinking brass or steel to match whatever fastenings I use...probably brass to match the lever cap....but I will make up a boxwood disc now you've put that thought in my mind!

Cheers!

Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

Well that's coming along very nicely =D> =D> =D> 

Does it really need a strike button ?

Won't it distract from the stunning grain on that delicious bun =P~ ?


----------



## Cheshirechappie

Mr_P":2d63rk9k said:


> Well that's coming along very nicely =D> =D> =D>
> 
> Does it really need a strike button ?
> 
> Won't it distract from the stunning grain on that delicious bun =P~ ?



Delicious bun? Actually, it reminds me more of a rich fruit cake (in a nice way).

Can somebody help an infill ignoramus? I assume that advancing the cut is done by tapping the end of the iron (with the lever cap screw backed off a tad), and lateral adjustment by tapping the sides of the iron, but how is the iron retracted if overset? I don't think I've ever seen an infill with a strike button, either on the front bun or on the heel. I'd always assumed you slacked off the lever cap, retracted the iron, and started over with the tapping to advance the iron to desired cut. Am I right or wrong?


----------



## jimi43

Ok..the final stage now before fitting and trimming the front curve and back recess.

So...sharpening up my WSH scraper....the thicker one using my trusty Clifton burnisher...I leveled up the sides and the front...






This leaves a level but roughish finish...






The front plateau was a laugh! But I eventually got it done without hitting the sides...by taking it out! DOH! (homer) 

Then running up the grits for the first time...






...shows up a few errors...particularly this side where the side transition meets the front plateau...just needs a bit more blending in...but that's what this stage is for after all!

It's easy to see in this highlighted closeup in the bottom right hand corner...






We'll get that sorted out tomorrow as the other side is spot on.

So for tonight...it's coming along...






Tomorrow I will be also making a test thread on a piece of brass...to test out the hole shown earlier in the lever cap block.

I like this stage...it's starting to get fun now! Before it was just terrifying!!  

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

That infill is looking better and better Jimi, cracking work.

Pete


----------



## AndyT

You've set a really high standard to work to here - but we all know you can do it! 
Keep it coming.


----------



## Corneel

Great work Jimmie, but there's something I don't understand. Why is the very front of the bun protruding beyond the steel sides?


----------



## jimi43

Corneel":26toh60x said:


> Great work Jimmie, but there's something I don't understand. Why is the very front of the bun protruding beyond the steel sides?



From previous experience...a newly cut piece of stock like that..particularly burr which has really strange grain and therefore drying characteristics...tends to continue shrinking.

Indeed, the front piece has shrunk even by a very small amount since I took the plane to Richard's a couple of weeks ago because as it is worked, new open grain is exposed and the moisture remaining seeps out.

As a consequence, the fit is slightly looser than it was back then and I can just remove it now by hand. Before I had to put the spacer back in to remove it and you could hold the plane up by the bun without it falling out.

The sides are not so critical as I am going to screw through this direction anyway but the ends if they shrunk after first shaping would sit below the contours of the surrounding steel and look wrong.

So the next step is to shape the raw steel toe, fix the infill in with screws (removable) and then shape the front and back contours to the body as I have done with the side so far.

Does that make sense?

Jim


----------



## Corneel

Yes that makes totally sence! (If that is English...)

Good thinking ahead about the shrinking wood.


----------



## Racers

Probably this dry weather has made it shrink.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

It could be indeed Pete...the infill stock has been stored in the workshop all winter so probably picked up quite a bit of moisture during our monsoon season!! :mrgreen: 

Ok...enough wood for now....time to try to make a lever cap screw! :shock: 

This is going to go one way or another...dreadful or passable...you decide!

So off to the trusty lathe which Douglas will remember with fond affection since he helped me relocate it from Ruislip to Kent! (thanks again Douglas!)







Huge bit of stock because of the knob....and we start with the knurling.

Now I found this J&S knurl tool as NOS at a bootfair a long while back and have been waiting to try it out and it turns out it's the best one I have found....






Very controllable indeed on the varispeed lathe because you just run up to the speed that makes the right chips come out and you're done!

There has been discussion about using three wheel devices but I like this type...plus I don't have a three wheeled one!

Now the crying bit as you have to take off most of the stock to make the thread blank!

Everybody knows what shaving brass off looks like plus I didn't bother photographing that bit so we move swiftly on to the magic tool...






As you can imagine...this thing was not cheap...but I did get it on Fleabay and it was from a bloke in Eynsford Kent so I could pick it up. I have never used it in anger since but tonight...boy was it useful as it holds the die absolutely square and hands-free so you simply have to introduce the stock into the hole.

This is particularly important with this extremely coarse thread as trying to start it by hand is a near impossibility!

I cut a test lip progressively as I wanted to get the EXACT size that the outer would cut. This prevents overcutting caused by too small stock and ensures you can work up to the right thread fit by tightening the adjustment bolts on the holder and testing every cut pass...like this...






Once I was certain that the bolt fitted the hole and the thread was tight but not too tight I then cut the rest of the thread...






Near the end I cut the whole thing again by hand (yes eagle-eyed will notice the stock on the lathe bench!)

It was VERY tight at first but progressive runs with tiny adjustments to the die brought it up to the right spec...






So that's the difficult bit over with for the night...PHEW!!!






Now all that remains to be done with the bolt is to cut the top and shape the whole thing...oh..and tidy up the end.






Bootfair 5am tomorrow so probably won't get time to do much more before work but we are getting there...

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Love that chunky thread Jimi.

Pete


----------



## AndyT

I'm sure you know this, but when you need to hold that beautifully threaded stem in the chuck so you can shape some pretty curves in the other end, an easy way to avoid damage is to wind some thick wire round the thread.


----------



## jimi43

Nice isn't it Pete....there's something fundamentally vintage about Acme and other square profiles.

Actually Prof....call me anal...but I was going to make another hole in some scrap round bar and tap it to hold the reversed stock....  

I need to shape the transition between the thread and the knurling concave first...then flip it and make a water drop in a pond shape inside the top...

You know the sort!

Probably Monday now...

Jim


----------



## Corneel

I would be very interested to see how you make that "water droplet in a pond". I know this is a woodworking forum, but still....


----------



## AndyT

Corneel":10ctzz0w said:


> I would be very interested to see how you make that "water droplet in a pond". I know this is a woodworking forum, but still....



I'm wondering about that bit too... and thinking that it might well be easier the old way, with hand held tools on a simple bar toolrest, like a woodturner would use, so you can do a free-hand, compound motion. Brass is quite easy to shape with hand held tools - but that's easy for me to say, when I have not invested hours getting the threading and the knurling just right!! But I'm sure Jim will have some ideas ready by now.


----------



## rxh

Good stuff, Jim. I feel inclined to try Acme threads now  

Turning brass by hand is fairly easy. An HSS wood turning scraper works well. I use a speed of about 700 rpm. It is necessary to experiment with toolrest height and angle of presentation until the chatter-free "sweet spot" is found. Bright mild steel can be turned in the same way.


----------



## jimi43

Yes...I don't really know how to describe what I was after doing but it would be like this one but more of a point on the centre:






Usually with concave bits I just shape a bit of tool steel to the contour I want and then introduce it to the stock slowly with plenty of care!

I'm sure it can be done handheld and I can slow the lathe right down...I will probably see how it turns out on a bit of scrap first and go with the best technique.

Cheers guys

Jimi


----------



## n0legs

Brilliant =D>
Absolutely brilliant.
I think I would be quite justified in saying, this is the must see topic of the forum.


----------



## Corneel

Aha, a purpose made tool bit! Why didn't I think of that?
And I didn't know you can shape brass freehand on the lathe. Good to know.


----------



## AndyT

A quick distraction on turning brass by hand, to prove that it can be done - this is my first attempt, and the only one so far. I had been reading "Trustee from the Toolroom" by Nevil Shute, which (unusually for a novel) just happens to have a short description of how to turn a metal egg. It worked, though somehow the scratches look worse in a photo than they do in real life. I mostly used an old engineer's scraper.


----------



## jimi43

Thank you for your kind comments guys!

Prof..that egg is superb! I shall now have a go at doing it by hand myself (on a scrap bit...I don't trust myself that much! :wink: ). And also...rethinking what you meant by wrapping wire around the thread...I now see exactly where you're coming from there mate..thick wire being like you get in armoured cable..the actual copper single strand...around the deep thread so that the wire is proud all the way along...brilliant!

Sorry...I didn't read it right in the first place and that is certainly a LOT easier than tapping another hole to hold it. I'll give it a go!

"Her indoors" is back this afternoon so I might get some tool time without ALFIE wanting to join in all the time! We'll see! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Ok...peace at last!

So...first the shaping of the concave underside of the lever cap knob....






Just a gentle curve with a cutter shaped for the job.

Then parting of the piece...slowly!

I found a full roll of thick wire from the days when I made speaker parts...this is for inductors in crossovers....and it worked perfectly....






Thank you so much Prof for that tip...it's a classic...so obvious when you look at it but these simple things often are...most grateful for the time this has saved me.






Makes great springs too...






Even ALFIE was impressed...






...but I did have to pull it away quickly to ensure he didn't eat it! :mrgreen: 

In the chuck the piece is firmly but gently held...






Brilliant!! =D> =D> 

The top was then faced off in readiness for the same treatment...






....and I was able to use the same cutter to make the concave dip...






ALFIE then acted as a black background to get a profile shot in contrast....






...although he did insist on showing you all his Jurassic Park "T-REX" impression....(suitably blurred so as not to frighten the kids!) :mrgreen: 

I will stare at this for an evening to decide whether to go deeper and more pointed but for now...I quite like the truncated and "butch" version...






...I think it matches the general proportions of the coarse thread and the plane itself.

Tomorrow I shall be mostly cutting the brass block down to width!!! :shock: BY HAND!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## AndyT

Looking good Jim!

I can't remember where I saw the tip about the thick wire - I read quite a lot of old books on turning when I got my metalworking lathe - but I'm glad it worked so well.

I'm sure you will pull all the design elements together in the finished article.


----------



## Mrs T

My god, but that's good! 

(If this comes out as 'My trousers' or something, I shall be seriously pineappled off).

Really gorgeous work, Jimi.

E 

Sent from my ST26i using Tapatalk


----------



## Racers

You have a fine looking knob Jimmi :shock: 

:wink: 

Pete


----------



## tobytools

Racers":1ie082vz said:


> You have a fine looking knob Jimmi :shock:
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Pete



=D> =D> 

TT


----------



## MickCheese

You are doing a great job there.

I am enjoying the write up so keep it up.

Mick


----------



## Bedrock

Jimi - strongly recommend handturning brass. I have used carbon steel woodturning chisels, HSS, a reground 1/4" chisel and a clockmakers graver to good purpose. Negative rake is the order of the day and a fine finish can be achieved off the tool. Good for inside and outside curves and twiddly bits.
Thank you Andy for reminding me of "The Trustee from the Toolroom". I first read it a very long time ago but still remember some of the techniques described. Neville Shute either knew of which he wrote or listened very carefully to someone who did. Also the camaderie between people with a shared enthuisiasm.

Reminded me of many of the people on this forum.

Digressing somewhat, it is more than irritating when writers and TV get things wrong. A recent "Flog It" programme on woodworking tools was wrong more times than it was right, but an Australian author - Peter Temple - has one of his characters helping out in an old fashioned cabinet makers and seems to get both tools and techniques about right.

Keep up the masterwork, Jimi

Mike


----------



## jimi43

There certainly seem to be a lot of tips coming out of this thread...by people adding their experience and from this we all benefit from new ideas...great stuff indeed!! Keep the ideas flowing!

Ok...leaving my knob out of the equation for the moment  ...an update on today's work.

I have been discussing the iron setup with a number of people and getting some great advice but also this has given me a bit of a problem.

Whether we go for a single cut iron or a combination iron/cap iron setup is something I have been discussing offline...but either way I have now come to a decision point because if we choose the latter then we need a mortice in the bed. I was going to hold off but then I thought that it wouldn't hurt to just put a mortice in so that later on I can choose either at will. So..first thing to do today was to cut that mortice.







All was going well and then a setback! 






As I was approaching the breakout...I thought to myself...shall I stop now and cut the remaining piece by hand...and I wish I had done now. Ordinary wood would have been ok but I keep forgetting we are dealing with burr here and guess what...






So...back to my restoration experience and out with the Titebond...and instead of having tomato soup with cheese and ham toastie being offered by Annie...I sat outside for half an hour and held the piece until it set up...






It'll be ok...this glue is better than the wood and it's hidden anyway but I was a bit annoyed for a brief moment!

Ok...so now on to the lever cap block. First to slowly shave it down on the mill until it _*just *_fits....






I stuck the widest iron I currently have in the plane to test the geometry...note here that the bun is moved forward from its resting place as the bottom of the block is still there and obstructs the bun at the moment.,...

I then passed the assembly over to the QA department to check that the scribed shoulder depth was correct...






ALFIE confirmed that it was exactly as marked so the next stage of shaping the shoulders could go ahead! :mrgreen: 






I was looking at Konrad Sauer's lever caps and fell in love with the huge chunky shapes...so it was with this in mind that I revised the thickness...keeping the entire block in place for now and shaping only the neck first.

So..to the shoulder cutting. 






Richard once showed me the benefit of drilling thick stock in order to cut it and used a pillar drill to get vertical alignment. With the milling machine...a high level of accuracy was achievable and using the digital display I was also able to ensure symmetry for my sketched curves. 

Another tip I learned from him was the use of a cold chisel to cut the bridges...






This is where we see that you should never throw away basketcase tools. A friend at work gave me this old Marples chisel with a view to putting a new edge on it. The entire tip had been snapped off!!! I just gave him another one and threw this one in the gash bin....until today! Grinding a double bevel on both sides of the stump I created a nice little cold chisel which was ideal for this job and made short work of the cutting:






After a few minutes and a lot of noise the job was complete....






The very rough protuberances were quickly removed using a nice turnip Nicholson file....






Files are the only tools I always buy new...or new old stock if possible. Again from bootfairs it's worth looking out for the good names as these are hugely expensive but a good file is worth it's weight in gold...






Once the worst points were filed down we were now in a position to create the final contour using an abrasive drum.

Axminster make a set of these and they have come in very handy more than once before. 

You need a little luck sometimes and guess what...one of the drums was exactly the correct diameter to create the correct shoulder radius!!






I mounted this in a drill chuck in the milling machine because firstly the mill will go down to incredibly slow speeds allowing the job to be undertaken by hand safely. Secondly it allowed me to use the machine vise opened just the right amount to lower the drum between the jaws and allow the same jaws to act as a 90 degree platform to keep things plumb...






The top of the arm was formed using my little £10 linisher from the bootfair...






I knew that would be a grand investment! :wink: 






So...what I thought would be a nightmare turned out, by using a combination of good tips and machines...a breeze!






I think that the chunky knob which looked a bit out of scale yesterday now suits the chunkiness of the plane and cap perfectly...






I had been ready to make a slimmer one but I had a gut feeling I would regret doing so and this turned out to be correct.

Tomorrow I am working so on Thursday I shall be shaping the neck, cutting the toe of the cap and scalloping out the underside.

Until then...

Cheers

Jimi and ALFIE!


----------



## Racers

Wow Jimi, just wow.

Pete


----------



## Harbo

Looking good - impressive work!

Rod


----------



## AndyT

Wonderful work and photos!

I was especially impressed by the cold chiselling and your nerve in trying out techniques new to you on this high stress, public project! Go for it!


----------



## jimi43

I should point out that there is little skill involved in pressing buttons and twiddling knobs!! I have to say that the lathe and milling machine make light work of onerous tasks but thanks for the words of encouragement as always! If I had 1/10th of the metalworking skills that dear Richard had then I would have attacked this with hammer and file but alas..that will never be...the "black stuff" still confounds me more often than not!

The tip with the cold chisel Andy was not that daunting really...I would be a charlatan to say otherwise! The mill made the bridges so close together they nearly joined up and it was a simple case of a quick "thwack" with a mallet and they parted company for good! I am thankful that Richard did point that tip out to me as I would have attacked it with a junior hacksaw and the result would have been close but a hell of a lot longer to achieve! :mrgreen: 

What worries me the most is this lever cap is now entering my dreams! I went to sleep very late last night (actually when the birds were tweeting this morning!  ) whilst pondering the next step...how to make the curves in the neck and the front and back.

Ideally, if I had a large enough round-nosed mill, I would have just milled it out but I didn't and the challenge therefore was to do as much on the machine as possible and then find a way of doing the rest.

A eureka moment hit me about 9am as ALFIE leapt on me wanting to go out for his "business walk"! Thanks ALF!

I used the biggest round-nosed mill I had to get a perpendicular cut accurately......






...and then used this as a guide to expand the curve using an abrasive covered brass rod in the lathe thus....






Now before the H&S boys come down on my like a ton of bricks...that chuck is not flying around as fast as would first appear! Annie (her indoors!) is a dab hand with the old Kodak and used a suitably slow shutter speed to give the illusion that I am completely and utterly bonkers.  

Ok..it might not be quite an illusion but I am not that mad in this instance! :mrgreen: 

At "relatively" slow speeds..the cutting power of this little setup was quite impressive...






....and so you can see where I'm trying to go with this.

Some will also note that the last photograph is taken in a foreign setting...that of Douglas' tablesaw! In order to finish this off I needed a 1" radius brass rod to turn into an impromptu drum sander and Douglas' was yet again "the man" who had such a piece! So I now have the right tool for the job...just need to keep all ten digits to finish it! :mrgreen: 

Before I left for the afternoon, suitably satiated in the coffee department, he did insist I take an "action shot" complete with mystery shaving to play the role....






We did also have a chat about irons....and infill fastenings which were most helpful and put a few further ideas in my head to roll around randomly in the wee hours...until the next stage!

Cheers Douglas...most helpful!

More later...

Jimi


----------



## bugbear

jimi43":1118d7jv said:


> ...and then used this as a guide to expand the curve using an abrasive covered brass rod in the lathe thus....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now before the H&S boys come down on my like a ton of bricks...that chuck is not flying around as fast as would first appear! Annie (her indoors!) is a dab hand with the old Kodak and used a suitably slow shutter speed to give the illusion that I am completely and utterly bonkers.



If you were worried, you could always have rigged the lever cap to the top slide, and followed "milling in the lathe" procedures and techniques.

There's always another way...

BugBear


----------



## xy mosian

jimi43":3g19hu4i said:


> ALFIE then acted as a black background to get a profile shot in contrast....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...although he did insist on showing you all his Jurassic Park "T-REX" impression....(suitably blurred so as not to frighten the kids!) :mrgreen:



Here's me thinking you had found a pet Womble  

Fascinating reading and a very instructive thread.
Thank you.
xy


----------



## dickm

Following on from the suggestion about it being safer to hold the workpiece on the cross-slide, two more suggestions.
1. Would hardwood dowel (of different diameters) be rigid enough to substitute for the piece of brass? OK, it takes away your excuse for a trip for coffee-satiation, but could mean you could produce the entire curve with a variety of diameter drums? If rigidity is a problem, mount the dowel between centres? Or....
2. Don't know whether it would produce a decent finish, but you could mount a fly cutter on a mild steel bar between centres and then shim the brass up to the appropriate level so you could fly cut the whole surface using the cross slide and leadscrew?


----------



## jimi43

Hi Dick

Thanks for the advice...however...now the scallop is all but there it guides the larger one very easily and by eye I inched up to the marked lines..

I'm sure your suggestions will be adopted should I ever find myself in need to do this again...but it will be quite a while hence I can tell you! :mrgreen: 







So that was that bit over...and the sun was shining so I was in a bright mood...






This afternoon I had root canal treatment at the dentist with my wife as the assistant so the thought of milling huge lumps of brass put me right off the next bit but I removed most of the front with a large mill and then I used a dreadnought file to get the profile and this monster to do the rest...






Some of you may remember the restoration thread I did back in 2011...I don't use it much but when I do...it eats things!

Then I did the final finishing on my other homemade jobbie...






...wiith a fine disc and it has a nice Corian bed now so registration is a breeze! As long as you remember not to go beyond the centre!! This thing has more torque than Jeremy Paxman! :mrgreen: 






So that's the neck...the front and the sides sorted....












I'm not particularly interested at refining the finish at this stage as I may need to move the toe back slightly depending on where the tip rests once I have set the location of the pivot point up....so I need to get the irons done first. After that I shall scallop the underside using the same French curve shape to match the top curve...I'm not looking forward to that bit!

But for now I'm fairly happy with progress...






It's starting to look like a proper plane now...






I may have to reinforce the wall behind the bench though...the inertia once this monster gets going is a bit worrying!! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## Racers

More excellent work Jimi.

You will be needing that blade sorting soon.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":1rht6o0s said:


> More excellent work Jimi.
> 
> You will be needing that blade sorting soon.
> 
> Pete



Thanks again Pete...appreciated. It's chunky rather than antique thin for a number of reasons but the top of the list is because it matches the chunkiness of the plane body itself.

I'm glad you brought up the subject of irons...I have now decided there will be three made next week...all from 01 tool steel.

As we discussed at Richard Arnold's, I want to send you one to harden in the traditional way so you better get some burgers in! :mrgreen: 

Another UKW member has also kindly offered to help me with one using more modern methods and he also has a surface grinder to ensure the face is perfectly flat....so that's another UKW member offering their services and kindness at this stage for which I am eternally grateful.

I want to see how the methods compare...something that has always interested me but judging by the way your scraper plane performs...I am sure we will have a a set of irons to go with this plane for a long time to come. Perhaps I shall grind different bevels on them for a bit of variety too!

What do you think?

Jimi


----------



## tobytools

Superb work so far Jimi, I can only echo what has already been said.
This wip is with out a dout the one I most look forwards to see, it's such a great project. Knowing the story that is behind it just takes me away. 
You should honestly be proud mate, and I'm sure there is a forge master looking down and smiling.

I too, can't wait for the irons to hurry up and get here 
The diffrent bevels is a great idea, like the QS LA block there is sevral irons for diffrent jobs and it just makes the tool that much better. 
With the combined efforts of other ukw member mucking in this will truley be the wip of a life time.

Thank you for sharing this journey, 
I for one really appreciate it.
Thanks mate

TT


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi

Sounds like a good plan I will have the BBQ on stand by, just need to empty the water out!

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Hi Toby

Thanks for your kind words mate...and yes...I am taking far more care over this one than any of my previous projects simply because this plane means so very much to me. Bevels...ah..not going to the same extremes as a BU plane because this one is the traditional BD but what I will be doing is looking at the whole combination of the cutting unit (be it one or two elements) and on the cap iron...I need to look at lever cap flex (although frankly I think this will be minimal with the thickness of irons being tested, and in particular...where that pressure point sits at the leading edge of the lever cap.

I am researching this today partly out of total ignorance of the geometry but mostly because I don't want to go shaving down the lever cap willy nilly and then find that I should have left it longer because the geometry dictates a certain length.

My initial empirical findings based on the selection of lever capped planes I have is shown below....






As can be seen from the profiles of the various lever caps I have....the ratio of the lengths from the pivot point to the back versus the pivot point to the front varies anywhere between 1.2:1 to 3.6:1 and all of these work fine.

Also the distance from the mouth to the front of the lever cap..the first pressure point....varies hugely.

That being said...I think that this is because the maths behind all of this was not really analysed way back then and different builders adopted a design and stuck to it. I do think that it's possible there is an optimum and the issues are:

1) Allowing an even but firm pressure on the iron/cap iron assembly but not so tight that tap adjustment can't be performed easily

2) Preventing the leading edge of the lever cap from interfering with the exit of the shavings

3) Ensuring the optimum flatness of iron to bed contact

4) Pure aesthetics.

I originally adopted a basic design from a dimensional point of view from the Scottish panel plane I have, simply because the size of the plane most closely matched that of this one.

That fixed the pivot point and distance from that point to the rear of the lever cap.

Now I have the front to play with once I have done enough research to be happy and this will allow me to trim the leading edge thus:






My gut feeling is telling me that a front/back ratio of 1.5 is right...it just looks right. There is enough clearance in the front to be clear of the mouth by a lot....the front pressure point is still on the steel "frog" and it looks cool!






....oh...and as you can see from the background of that picture...it is exactly the same as the Scottish panel!! 8) 

I shall be trawling the Internet tonight...and...I will be seeking advice from one of my favourite plane building guys...






....who just happens to have a whole chapter on the subject!






.....although just a quick glance at this last picture makes me think his ratio is not 1.5.

At the end of all of this, it might prove not to matter one iota but I don't want to be making another lever cap anytime soon that's for sure! :shock:

Pete...yes mate...empty the water...get the frogs out...fire up the burgers and get ready to rock!

I need to get some more steel from my supplier as I thought I had more wide stock but alas...it's all 60 mm which is just too narrow...should be here quickly though. 

More tomorrow as I tinker further...

Jimi


----------



## xy mosian

In the page shot of Kingshott's book I wonder if the pivot point is more related to the plane body than the lever? Personally I would consider leaving the final decision until I had an iron, and possibly cap iron, to play with.
I am sure you will get it right. 
xy


----------



## jimi43

xy mosian":1j9g51n8 said:


> In the page shot of Kingshott's book I wonder if the pivot point is more related to the plane body than the lever? Personally I would consider leaving the final decision until I had an iron, and possibly cap iron, to play with.
> I am sure you will get it right.
> xy



Yes xy....that is what I think...the dimensions don't add up. Generally speaking I'm pretty sure that this will be 1.5:1 because it is the ratio of the vast majority of planes I have (give or take) and also if that were the one I chose...the leading edge comes just behind where the cap iron comes off its initial bevel and right in the centre of the frog...with enough room of shavings to curl out.

I will indeed wait until I have made the new irons and cap iron and then working on this theory...dry fit the lever cap and see how it sits.

Jimi


----------



## xy mosian

Hi Jimi, 
I'm pleased that occurred to you. I don't like sticking my nose in, especially on such a masterpiece.
Keep up the good work.
xy


----------



## Racers

Jimi how about making a wooden blade to test it out? 

Pete


----------



## jimi43

xy mosian":1o8p5osj said:


> Hi Jimi,
> I'm pleased that occurred to you. I don't like sticking my nose in, especially on such a masterpiece.
> Keep up the good work.
> xy



Hey mate...please please please stick your nose in any time you want mate! That is just the sort of feedback I want and trust me...I will be making many a balls up during this build...trust me on that one! What I will show is all these errors in the hope that the next person to undertake such a challenge will do so forewarned! (homer) 

Gee Louise Mike...I nearly said "Yes Captain Mainwaring" there mate! :mrgreen: Actually that's a blinking good idea! Let's see how long Barmond take to send me the stock and I'll see if I have got to that bit by then...I suspect this whole lever cap thing may take me to then to research until I'm happy!

Jimi


----------



## Corneel

I don't think the exact ratio is too important. There is so much leverage pressure available anyway. Important is that the screw doesn't end up in the same spot as the capiron screw, that the nose of the lever cap sits somewhere on the bulge of the capiron and that the leverpin goes through the sides of the plane in a nicely pleasing way.

In my only lone infillplane, the levercap is too short and it ends definitely behind the bulge of the capiron. But it still works allright and is easilly adjusted both up and down with light hammer taps. That's why I think the exact dimensions aren't too important.


----------



## jimi43

Corneel":1q0u1tt2 said:


> I don't think the exact ratio is too important. There is so much leverage pressure available anyway. Important is that the screw doesn't end up in the same spot as the capiron screw, that the nose of the lever cap sits somewhere on the bulge of the capiron and that the leverpin goes through the sides of the plane in a nicely pleasing way.
> 
> In my only lone infillplane, the levercap is too short and it ends definitely behind the bulge of the capiron. But it still works allright and is easilly adjusted both up and down with light hammer taps. That's why I think the exact dimensions aren't too important.



That was my initial feeling Corneel and I am moving towards concluding that.

I have done a bit of research on "improved" cap iron design...over the standard bent spring of steel and based on my limited use of the ones Clifton makes for Bailey type planes with a split "Stay Set" construction. Although I won't be making an infill "Stay Set" version....I do like the way the thicker steel is relieved on the underside near the mouth and all the way back beyond the screw thus forming a kind of low bridge with a point at the front to act as chip breaker. This is an altogether more robust solution and that will have less of a pronounced "hump" at the leading edge so I will aim to set the lever cap limit near to this point and about half way up the frog slope.

That, along with the screw pressure...should give a very positive location of the assembly against the bed and further solidify the edge against chatter and chip ingress.

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Okie dokie...next step.

The whole day was spent dodging rain and trying to sit in the sun again to get the most of the summer...and very little was apparent since last time but the placement of the holes took a long while to research and even longer to set out and drill.

I went through loads of examples to see just where the screws should go to hold the infills and yet again, I found quite a bit of variation.

Konrad Sauer (as usual!) came to my aid with his placement and so I went with that...each hole being half way between the sole and the side curve at that point and thus creating a nice pattern which just looks right AND giving the maximum amount of wood, particularly important at the thin ends!

I then hit the rear bevels...







Draw filing as recommended by Richard using a turnip file first and then moving to a finer file until the profile was right both sides.






It really is amazing how the "black stuff" techniques come flooding back from over 30 years ago which was the last time I did this much metalwork in anger!






It does look like the bevel isn't even from this shot but that's just a camera illusion being closer to the lens and the fact that I'm using my phone camera as I couldn't be bothered to get the Nikon out!  

So...little steps now...but all moving to the light at the end of the tunnel!






The iron in there is a 5mm one I made WRONGLY!






....yup...I put the hole at the bevel end by mistake and realised too late so had a slight lack of steel to make the bevel end! (homer) 

I have ordered the screws...I'm going to use brass ones and do a shallow countersink and screw them up to finish the body and when it's all done I shall file the tops off and leave little brass dots along the sides. I think that will work rather well.

More later when other stock arrives...taking a few days off now...back later.

Jimi


----------



## Mrs T

Looking great, Jimi. I like the idea of the brass screws - I'm a big fan of mixed metals in a plane (and in jewellery).

I see you've put the hefty spacer to good use 

It's going to be so very pretty. Well done.


----------



## jimi43

Mrs T":2cr0maas said:


> Looking great, Jimi. I like the idea of the brass screws - I'm a big fan of mixed metals in a plane (and in jewellery).
> 
> I see you've put the hefty spacer to good use
> 
> It's going to be so very pretty. Well done.



Hi Emma

I have indeed used the spacer...every time in fact as I can't get the infills out otherwise! :mrgreen: 

Richard made this so very easy to infill that it virtually makes itself! I want to ensure that I keep the sides parallel of course!

The bit of wood is there out of paranoia as I doubt if the aluminium jaws of they Zylyss vise will affect the sides but I ain't taking any chances! :wink: 

The brass screw concept came from the reverse of the method used for gunmetal sides using steel screws and from the fact that Richard once said that how ever much care he took trying to get opposite holes in line...there was always an error so I didn't want to risk putting a through rivet in which was the other idea.

I don't have a drill long enough either so trying to drill from both sides and hoping for the best just wasn't on the cards!

The next few stages (the polishing of the bevels and infills...the finishing of the curve flats...the making of the irons and cap iron will all bring it out and I can't wait but I have to remind myself to get the engineering right first..then the prettiness! It's so tempting to do it the other way around...believe me!  

Hope you are ok.

Jimi


----------



## dickm

I know it's a design feature, and I should have made this comment earlier in the build, but are you sure that hook on the side just level with the blade isn't going to take a ragged piece out of your left hand if one day you release your grip on the bun and pull your hand back just too close to the side? 
Just a suggestion - I'm paranoid about cuts and grazes these days because of a recently developed blood problem, but maybe a bit of easing off of the point would be a good idea??


----------



## jimi43

dickm":e99fimhu said:


> I know it's a design feature, and I should have made this comment earlier in the build, but are you sure that hook on the side just level with the blade isn't going to take a ragged piece out of your left hand if one day you release your grip on the bun and pull your hand back just too close to the side?
> Just a suggestion - I'm paranoid about cuts and grazes these days because of a recently developed blood problem, but maybe a bit of easing off of the point would be a good idea??



Yes indeed...relieved they will be once I have fitted the infills and can "use" the plane to check the ergonomics. I suspect that they will be softened which I will do when I finish the steel on the non-beveled curved section. I don't want to take away too much of Richard's original concept of the "Japanese Wave" but I think I can still retain this in essence and make it safe.

Keep 'em coming Dick...these are the sort of feedback comments I love to get to ensure everything is covered. It shares the load a bit! :wink: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Ok....now for the boring but vital bits so bear with me if you're not into the geometry stuff!

Earlier this week I got a quote from the most excellent Richard Airey at BARMOND STEEL for the iron/cap iron stock and I am getting metre lengths of 70mm width at 3mm, 4mm and 5mm thicknesses which gives me quite a lot of scope for the design.

On FleaBay the other day I espied an old iron which would make an IDEAL test iron whilst I wait for the steel so I snapped it up and it arrived within 24 hours!






It was EXACTLY the right width...thickness and was a Three Shamrocks Marples so well up to being a test iron for this plane!

I then fitted the rear infill temporarily....(note the screws are still sticking out so it's removeable!)






Using a small straight edge, I then found that the righthand side was a tiny bit out and this is where the Liogier float comes into its own...






The iron now sits beautifully flat on the entire wood/frog area with no wobble or tilt.

I wanted to get the iron thickness worked out so that I get a good fit for the mouth and this one is perfect!






With the iron held in place there is the right amount of clearance to start with...really happy. Note that this iron has been sharpened with a slight curve hence more of a gap towards the edges.

The next job will be to cut all the countersinks and sink the screws to just above the slot depth....trim the ends of the plane to a slight curve increasing to the corners and finish off the rear infill.

I will now be able to position the lever cap and fit.

One thing I noticed was that the precision of the mill meant that the holes I drilled on each side were in perfect alignment (I know...I was shocked too! :shock: ) and so I am thinking about a through shaft for the lever cap...

I just have to build up to risking this first...over the weekend!

More later!

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi

Nice work as usual.

How about spring loaded pins for the lever cap?

Looking forward to heat treating the blade.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Hi Pete

I had thought about a spring pin as per Jim's Kingshott design but I don't see the point of being able to remove the lever cap...do you?

The steel should be with me tomorrow (I hope!) as it has left Sheffield...but since it's coming via Herpes...I may be a little rash thinking that! :mrgreen: 

Ok...today I couldn't put off the metal bits any longer...so I decided to finish the rear of the plane and also finish the lever cap.

The decision to set a ratio for the lever cap of 1.5:1 (arm length to pivot/pivot to leading edge) was made based on consensus and proved to be perfect (more later!)

The first thing to do was to flip the cap in the mill and tighten the machine vise VERY tightly so as not to get a flying lever cap in the workshop...there wasn't much holding it down!






I want to put an arc scallop on the underside leading to a bevel to the front edge to give point contact just where it's needed...so the first thing to do was excavate the stock as far as I could using a medium mill....







.....slowly working towards the edge of the arc.

After the basic trench was milled out...the bevel was set on the leading edge by flying over the area and using high speed to get the required finish so I don't have to do this again...I don't want the geometry changing here as it is critical that this is flat and parallel to the pivot point exactly.

The stock was then run against the homemade brass abrasive shaft in the lathe until the arc was created....






This was remarkably quick but I'm glad I used brass as the substrate for the abrasive rod...it stayed really firm and neat...






Ok....so that was the difficult bit done! Phew! :shock: 






I keep thinking of that saying "many a slip between cup and lip!"....

It's all very nerve-racking!  






Ok...that bit was wrapped in cotton wool while I fitted and redid the back bevel!

Yup...re-did the back bevel....because I needed to line up the wood and the steel and this affected the original bevel so note to self....don't do the bevel before you fit the rear infill properly!!! (homer) 

And guess what!? The handle now sits perfectly...(as I knew it would!!!  ...yeh right Jimi!!!)






I stuck some sanding sealer (cellulose of course!) on it to see how the grain shows...(oh..and to seal the grain!)....and it is starting to jump out now...






I can hardly wait to get to the Tru-Oil and finishing bits and bobs...!

Ok...so back at the beginning I said that the cap iron was resized (oops forgot to photo that bit) so it's shorter at the front now and has a ratio of 1.5:1...and this is how it fits...






It just LOOKS right! The curve..the point at which the leading edge presses on the cap iron...the fact that this is right on the steel frog...all that good stuff!

The iron in place is the test Marples set and I really like this old workhorse...I will copy all the elements of the original once the steel arrives....except the top...I like more pointed bevels. :wink: 

Throat clearance is also more than sufficient...






Ok...so that's all today folks....






The steel should arrive tomorrow or this Wednesday...but before then the front needs to be installed..I need to square off the front bevels because I stupidly rounded them over because I didn't use a flat backed abrasive pad.... (homer) ...the front and rear curves need to be done on the overhangs and then marking out of the lever cap will be done once I am absolutely certain the new iron/cap iron combination is the same as the Marples test iron/cap iron.

Phew! Nearly there! :mrgreen: 

More this week....

Jimi


----------



## ali27

Fellow woodworkers, forget about Karl Holtey, Konrad Sauer, Ron Brese and other famous infill makers. We have
our own Jimi!!

Fantastic stuff man, keep up the great work!!!!


----------



## jimi43

ali27":2wh43gkr said:


> Fellow woodworkers, forget about Karl Holtey, Konrad Sauer, Ron Brese and other famous infill makers. We have
> our own Jimi!!
> 
> Fantastic stuff man, keep up the great work!!!!



WOW! Steady on there mate! Those are the K2 and Everests and I'm still struggling up Ben Nevis! :mrgreen: 

No pressure then! :mrgreen: 

Seriously though...thanks for the kind words...I need all the encouragement I can get because I having even got a shaving to show yet!  

Now THAT would be embarrassing if it didn't cut wouldn't it! :mrgreen: 

Nah...that ain't gonna happen....... :shock: 

Thanks ali!

Jimi


----------



## tobytools

Beautiful work as allways mate. Don't worrie about if it can get shaving or not worrie about if we can find a instrument capable of reading such a fine shaving as I know in my heart that this will out preform any spires (jim loves a spires) 

I want to see shavings every colour of the rainbow 

Jimi you are nearly in my favourite plane makers of all time 

Cheers
TT


----------



## jimi43

tobytools":11i77ull said:


> ............
> 
> Jimi you are *nearly* in my favourite plane makers of all time
> 
> Cheers
> TT



I better get some more polish in then Toby! :mrgreen: 

After seeing what sort of finish you can get with Tru-Oil on a guitar...I am fairly confident you will like the result when I get around to that stage...not far off now hopefully.

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Cracking work Jimi.

That cap looks fantastic, and the infill is starting to pop!

Pete


----------



## yetloh

jimi43 said:


> I had thought about a spring pin as per Jim's Kingshott design but I don't see the point of being able to remove the lever cap...do you?
> 
> ]
> 
> Lovely work as ever, Jim. As to the removable lever cap, I have infills with and without this facility and have to say I much prefer to have it removable because it is so much easier to replace the blade after sharpening without bashing the edge on something hard.
> 
> Jim


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Pete...not long now..but the steel is still with HERPES...yup..as predicted! Bloody shower that lot..lord knows why they're still in business...a whole day to pick up from Sheffield let alone send south! It will be here tomorrow (MAYBE!). 

I can then fashion the irons and cap irons and send one to you and one to Philly...I can't wait!

In the meantime I can do all the testing with the Marples...as that is the one I shall copy exactly so it will be dimensionally the same.

I am chatting with Emma (MrsT) about getting the lever cap engraved...at the moment I am not sure what to put and what script to use but we will come to a decision on that soon. I want Ian at Chalco to do it as he made a wonderful job of my stamp...and Richard's, neither of which I can use on the brass. I can send this off at the same time as the irons and that way they should all be back together for fitting and final testing.

Hi Jim....yes..ideally it would be great to have the lever cap removable but I am still wary of trying to get a perfectly straight and perpendicular hole through that much brass ending on the other side accurately enough not to cause problems. The other way..drilling one side...bolting it in and then lining the other side up and marking and drilling will be safer. I am just a chicken at heart!

I think I could do a through hole but why risk it at this stage...(many a slip an' all!)  

I have therefore decided to use countersunk stainless steel Allen key bolts. I have also ordered some black ones as well...so I can play....sadly they don't do them in brass as far as I can tell but if anyone knows where I can get M6 18mm long Allen countersunk bolts from.....let me know!

Ok..today I spend the whole day working on the plane...and I have cuts and sores on both my thumbs to prove it! :roll: 

After redoing the bevels at both the front and the back and curving the rear steel on my Creusen white wide wheel... I set about first finishing of the rear infill...






First I used the abrasive 1" shaft on the lathe to the rear curved bevels. Then using a hacksaw I cut down into the remaining wood overhang just shy of full depth...and used a Stanley knife to cut the waste out.

This left a fairly coarse edge and I was unsure what to use to trim this very thin surface...but ALFIE came up trumps (again!)....






...and he was spot on! :mrgreen: 






That baby Veritas shoulder really is a handy little plane for these jobs. A present from my dear buddy Pedder and it has come through so many times now...when anything else just won't cut it! It's a masterpiece of engineering if ever there was one!

And if you don't believe it's shaving...check this out...






In this picture you see there is a tiny aberration in the infill ( (homer) ) at this very point which is annoying but I will fill it with some glue mix and it will disappear in the final finishing.

A quick file over the rear overhang and final silk finish with Abranet to 180G and we're done at the back...






Apologies for the clarity of the picture at this point but I think my lens on the phone steamed up! I shouldn't be so lazy...and take the little Nikon Bridge out with me but you get the idea!






Ok...so I then fitted the front bun and tidied up the front and inside throat curves..again with the 1" homemade rotating abrasive..this time with 120G cloth backed abrasive sheet used to ensure crisp lines...






This needs finishing like the rear but I simply ran out of time before the rain came along and I wasn't up to pulling it all up and starting again in the workshop...so I will do that bit tomorrow morning.

As can be seen below...I also partially sorted out the finish on the waves....






....and you can see the ideal place to get the engraving done.....on the flat surface of the lever cap. 

I also softened the points of Hokusai's Great Wave of Kanagawa....as suggested by Dick as these were indeed a tad dangerous. But..I think I have managed to retain the spirit of Richard's idea at the same time...






I really want to get the irons finished now...that lever cap has to go in and I just have to get some test shavings...but patience..as they say is a virtue and this has been a bit of a long marathon rather than a sprint so I can wait!

More later...if this darn courier turns up! :wink: 

Jimi


----------



## yetloh

Hi Jim,

Yes, I know exactly what you mean about risk and I certainly don't blame you; the further you get into a project the bigger the investment at stake. I'm sure it will be a joy to use and give you great satisfaction to see the finished article on the bench.

Jim


----------



## jimi43

yetloh":3b9e9vwl said:


> Hi Jim,
> 
> Yes, I know exactly what you mean about risk and I certainly don't blame you; the further you get into a project the bigger the investment at stake. I'm sure it will be a joy to use and give you great satisfaction to see the finished article on the bench.
> 
> Jim



Yes Jim...I have weighed the whole thing up and the pros are simply not significant enough to risk the cons which are significant and could result in a major issue with the geometry of the key part...the lever cap and its functionality.

All the rest of the geometry is spot on and since I am always very careful when I reinsert an iron...I think that I will just use bolts.

Apart from the iron I wanted to add a few modern signatures and I think that Allen headed bolts would be ideal in filling that role. I am open to suggestions though! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## Corneel

I'm afraid I wouldn't like the look of allen bolts. Just get some old fashioned ones with a screwdriver slot. It would be a shame of all the nice work to use an Ikea fastener in there.


----------



## Mr_P

+1 for Allen keys but not exactly modern, 19th century idea.

Coming along very nicely James, brass lever caps might be a pita but well worth the effort.


----------



## Racers

That's a cracking little Veritas plane Jimi, and good work.

Re sprung loaded cap, all you need is a couple of holes on the cap deep enough for a pin and spring, say 20mm, 15mm for the pin and 5mm for the spring.
If you made them out of brass it would look like one of the screws you are using on the infills, which i think would look nice, but its up to you in the end, I don't want to force your hand.

Pete


----------



## Mrs T

I like the Allen bolts idea. Richard used to use them to fix the bridge in place on his heavy based smoothers, and they looked reet smart.


----------



## jimi43

WOW...some interesting comments there with regards to the final step!

And thanks Pete for pointing that point which I completely missed...that you don't have to drill right through to get sprung pins to work! (homer) 

In fairness...I was temporarily distracted by the Great Jim himself from this picture in his book...







...so much so that I was blinded by the fact that the pin can be pins and the spring, springs and never the twain shall meet!

Highly possible now!

Ok...this is the decision because my gut and to some extent the consensus...is indicating that Allen bolts *could* look nice....

I'm going to go with these and then that creates the line up I need to do AND means I can test the darn thing.

I will then photograph it and should they look out of place or simply rubbish, then I can drill out to countersink width...and put a shouldered sprung pin either side the tip of which will show flush to the steel side and match the others.

Sound like a plan?

myHERPES!!!! GRRRRRRR!!! I really have a major problem with that outfit...the bleedin' steel has been sitting in their "sender's depot" awaiting someone to do something...like...hey...try putting it on a friggin' truck! This according to the myHERPES track and treat webpage.

By experience...this effectively means it could be somewhere between Sheffield and Kent...in fact...they usually turn up just as I'm taking ALFIE out for a pee...but at least I know the bloke this end now so he will just leave it safe for me...well ALFIE actually because he loves ALFIE...heaven knows why as he nearly had his hand off last time he tried to pass a parcel over the fence!  

So...wait...and wait and wait and more updates as and when the winged messenger get's his act in gear. Perhaps he flew too close to the sun over Birmingham....nah...wrong bloke! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Well...guess what...no steel...but at least it's being "sorted at the national hub"....wow...that's comforting!

So...in order to take my mind off this slight hiccup I finished off the front and the wave to a base level before final finishing...






A little bit of filling again to be done when I do get around to that final bit but generally I'm pretty happy with the shape...






....and these shots are helping show up where I need to tidy things up a bit and do some filling come the time...like the right edge there between the wood and the steel.

All in all a fun day...and it's coming along as I planned originally in the brief sketch...







Nah....joke...I was playing with the Paper Artist App on my Samsung phone! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jimi

p.s. no updates tomorrow...I have a little hospital visit to overcome so hopefully will be back in full swing by the weekend.


----------



## rileytoolworks

Looking really smart Jimi.
You had me fooled with the 'plan drawing', you cheeky pipper!

Hope it goes well tomorrow.


Adam.


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Adam...and a very timely post as you will see!

Guess what...the steel arrived!! YES!! Finally! :roll: 

I didn't get back until really late from my fun day out...and there was this huge and heavy parcel. 

Thankfully...our local Hermes guy is a nice bloke and he carted it into the house for my wife...running the gauntlet of ALFIE at the same time.






The first thing to do is to remove the protective grease with isopropyl alcohol...






Nice little labels....






....and just in case I wanted to harden it myself...






....all the information right there on the label...(see that Pete! :mrgreen: )

First to blue the ends...






Boy...I just love that spray "blue" layout paint...it dries really quickly in a couple of minutes and is such a lovely colour!

Then...there ya go Adam...marking out the iron and the cap iron...






Simple job...quality tool...makes me feel in control..I just love nice tools...don't you!

First blood of the Riley Toolworks marking awl...what a wonderful gem that is...thanks mate!

So...it being gone 1 a.m. - I think I will be leaving the sawing up of the blanks until tomorrow...hopefully in the sunshine on the porch with ALFIE helping!

Once these are cut out and milled into shape I can fit them and see where we are with the placement of the lever cap.

The Allen bolts arrived today...a selection of sizes thankfully...I wanted to make sure I had the right size.

Still keeping the sprung pin idea in the back of my mind though! :wink: 

Night all!

Jimi


----------



## rxh

The end is in sight now, Jim. Well done indeed - I have been following this thread with great interest.

I tried Jim Kingshott's way of attaching the lever cap and didn't get it to work quite right because I couldn't find or make a spring that would compress far enough and provide sufficient force. I ended up making a sort of expanding bolt, which works very well - see photo below.

I drilled the lever cap from both sides and the holes met in the middle quite well but with a slight "step". I think this is very likely to occur unless you have a very accurate machine. I removed the step with small files, taking great care not to enlarge the ends of the hole - this was a bit tedious to do. You could try on a bit of scrap metal and see how you get on.


----------



## Racers

Oooo steel mmmmmmm


Pete


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Seen it all now. Steel porn!!


----------



## yetloh

Look forward to see the blade making.

Going back to the lever cap, for me, by far the most elegant solution is Karl Holtey's scroll recesses 






they fit over small pegs in the plane sides and tightening the lever cap screw locks the whole thing solid, but very difficult to do without CNC milling I would guess.

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Hi rxh....

Yes...I foresee more problems than benefits from following Jim's idea there...and since it's not even traditional then I think I will either go for two bolts into either the pure brass or into inserts. OR...I might go for sprung stubs. Bolts for now first so I can do some planing with the Marples and see how he performs...my patience is waning rather fast now it looks like a proper plane!  

Steel porn! HA! Yes...but I blinkin' HATE steel...the swarf is the devil's dandruff!! :evil: 

And so to the milling again...not long now and I don't have to do this too often again!






Drill the big hole first..then drill little holes all the way along the slot to relieve the strain on the mill a bit..and it's much faster!

Then tilt the iron to 25 degrees and mill out a bevel...






Handy thing those magnetic bevel gauges....






Lots of hacksawing and filing followed...and we got this....






This is one hell of a lump of steel...






I then test fitted the Marples cap iron and they were made for each other...






The new cap iron will be much more butch and of a different design I've been researching....more on that later.

So...test fit so far...






I have left enough at the top (following my last screw up!  ) and I think it may be a tad too long...but we shall see when it's mated with the new cap iron.

The cap iron will be started tomorrow...I don't think that's going to be anywhere NEAR as difficult as the steel is nearly half as thick...but there are a lot of compound bevels going on too so that should be fun!

More later

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## rileytoolworks

More awesome-ness Jim!
When are you going to start offering aftermarket irons to the masses?
How did you get on with the awl. Glad to see it's being put to use on such a cool project.
I have one that I use solely for marking steels.

I'll have to get myself a milling machine soon. I've been to look at a few Bridgeports, but they were badly abused unfortunately.
Can't see me finding one at the boot sale (though I have seen a few in the past!).


----------



## jimi43

yetloh":1l2ctmcw said:


> Look forward to see the blade making.
> 
> Going back to the lever cap, for me, by far the most elegant solution is Karl Holtey's scroll recesses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> they fit over small pegs in the plane sides and tightening the lever cap screw locks the whole thing solid, but very difficult to do without CNC milling I would guess.
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim!

Wow...is that an older Holtey? I thought all his lever caps were milled from stock now..that one's a superbly finished casting I see.

It would be another option...very clever indeed...I need to ponder this latest idea a while..thanks for that! ( #-o :mrgreen: :mrgreen: )



rileytoolworks":1l2ctmcw said:


> More awesome-ness Jim!
> When are you going to start offering aftermarket irons to the masses?
> How did you get on with the awl. Glad to see it's being put to use on such a cool project.
> I have one that I use solely for marking steels.
> 
> I'll have to get myself a milling machine soon. I've been to look at a few Bridgeports, but they were badly abused unfortunately.
> Can't see me finding one at the boot sale (though I have seen a few in the past!).



I was very gentle with it mate...soft steel versus harder steel... no contest and no blunting of the tip as I only really scratched paint I was so careful!

Maybe I ought to get another one...the box one you had was beautiful...perhaps you need me to send you some box for that? :wink: 

As for offering after-market irons...nah mate...that would take all the fun out of it and the number of hours it takes me to make one...I would be on less than minimum wage...and that's without the kind offers of hardening from Pete and Philly!

Milling machines...mmmmm....I spent ages finally settling on this one. I saw innumerable secondhand ones and the play was ridiculous on almost all of them...mostly on the spindles. Ok..this can be rectified fairly easily but to be honest the key thing which sold me on the SX3 was the silence! If I have the radio on...even low volume...and the mill isn't cutting...I can't hear it at all...

Bloody dangerous sometimes! I have to check! Also, all this faffing around with belts...no..the DC variable speed motor is the way to go. Infinitely controllable and in the end...the investment has been worth its weight in gold.

I'm pretty sure there are better ones than the Sieg but for the money..it's an awful lot of machine for the price.

Cheers guys

Jimi


----------



## yetloh

Yes, it is a slightly older Holtey and yes, he does now machine all his lever caps from solid. The scroll recesses really are brilliant. I have a very early no 98 which has a fixed lever cap but saw this new version in his workshop and it transforms blade, removal and replacement, particularly because, as you would expect, he makes blade fit pretty snug to take slack out of adjustment.

Jim.


----------



## jimi43

yetloh":2qlh6jco said:


> Yes, it is a slightly older Holtey and yes, he does now machine all his lever caps from solid. The scroll recesses really are brilliant. I have a very early no 98 which has a fixed lever cap but saw this new version in his workshop and it transforms blade, removal and replacement, particularly because, as you would expect, he makes blade fit pretty snug to take slack out of adjustment.
> 
> Jim.



I read through Karl's blog earlier today and read up quite a bit on this mechanism...very clever indeed. I am keeping this on the back boiler for a couple of reasons. Firstly...the difficulty in doing the scroll correctly without CNC...and most importantly..I don't really want to copy Karl's idea...not really "done form" I think. But it is superb and I didn't hear of this before so a great bit of education.

So...to get a move on and test the plane out, I bit the bullet...not for the first time in this project...and drilled the holes for the bolts!

Surprisingly...playing around with the positioning ended up giving me exactly the same location as on my Scottish panel smoother...

I was a bit distracted at first because the scroll top on each plane is very different and it just didn't look right. So there was a few hours of head scratching and deliberation before this stage I can tell you!






I didn't photograph the hole drilling for the side...it's just hole drilling! And..if truth be known...I was concentrating and measuring more than once or twice I can tell you! I took the plane out of the vise at least a dozen times before I was certain I hadn't made some stupid cock-up...like being a few mm out of alignment! You can't just cut another piece on this job! :lol: 

Once assembled I checked it out and the clamping is very firm and flat across the cap iron so seems that this stage is over with little worry!

And so to the first shavings!! The Marples iron is "as received from eBay" and is frankly a bit blunt...not bad but will need some fettling but I couldn't wait so first of all a deepish cut...






There was that pleasing whoosh sound even with this deep a cut...and a less than optimum iron. Nor have I checked the flatness of the sole...I am actually predicting that will not be necessary...knowing how good Richard was with these things!






A little uneven but that's the iron.






So...a little bit of adjustment and the shavings got thinner and thinner...






I am going to take a break now...then concentrate on that iron and see what I can get out of the plane but for now...I am well chuffed that things are going in the right direction.

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Shavings!

Wicked work Jimi, that's some high stress work out of the way.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":3rq7352u said:


> Shavings!
> 
> Wicked work Jimi, that's some high stress work out of the way.
> 
> Pete



Hi Pete.

Yup..you have no idea how stressing that last bit was...well you probably do because you built the most excellent scraper plane I saw at Richard Arnold's charity event....but I spent yesterday knowing that (for reasons unknown to me!)...I chose to make this fairly public...so a cock up now would be like me being a Brazilian international footballer!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Yesterday...the impatience got to me and even though it was a long day...late and not the best light...I just had to post first shavings.

I didn't want to sharpen the iron last night but sitting there with a blunt iron and the Fallkniven ceramic stone which happened to sit in guilty seclusion on my coffee table....I decided to do it anyway. Luck was once again, shining on me. The face near the edge was concave! YES!!!

It took only 30 minutes and only slightly abraded thumbs and I had it flat! 8) 

I did resist the temptation to go out and try it until first light though! Mostly because I didn't really want to wake my wife up on the eve of her birthday to ask her to take the pics...I waited until her birthday! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:  

Most of you will know by now that I have this evil piece of yew which has some rather annoying patches of opposing grain...it's really a nightmare to plane and only Phillys smoothers usually come close to taming it...or my infill smoothers.

So...that's the wood I chose!

This is a fairly coarse cut....








....but a slight adjustment and I kind of went a bit mad!!!






Normally I have to fake shaving positioning in the photo but today....the birthday missus being the snapper.....(and what a superb one she is too!).....this was straight off the stock...two shavings one after the other with a kind of SSSSSSSSSS sound...a sort of "better" WHOOOSH if that makes sense?! #-o 

Of course...ALFIE had to see....






There then followed a panic moment....ALFIE ran off with a shaving and I am never sure how poisonous this stuff is....so we had to chase him around the bleedin' garden for ages to get it back! :mrgreen: 

So...I transferred to a bit of tulipwood left over from the doors Douglas made for me...






The shaving was even and thin right across the width of the iron....






....and as you can see from this next shot....I'm kinda pleased....






No...let's rephrase that....I am feeling that it's MY birthday today...not just her indoors!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

WOW! Pressure all gone...smiley face big style!!

Jimi (and ALFIE and his BIRTHDAY MUM!)


----------



## Racers

Wow fantastic!!!

And happy birthday Mrs Jimi. 

I will pm you my address so I can harden a blade.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Thanks Pete...I passed on your regards to Annie and she said thanks! 

She did spend most of the day taking pictures (with ALFIE's help!) so later on I cleaned up and called it a day so I could do her a steak dinner...(reality...I ordered it from the local restaurant and picked it up ready done!!  ) She loved it though!

Today must have been nearing 30 degrees on the porch...so I waited until it cooled down a bit and then sat out in the sun and tidied up all the angles and crispness of the line with a combination of files and scrapers. Again the Clifton burnisher came up trumps when it was needed but for the next part I really need to renew the edge on the side before I pull a burr...it's getting a bit tatty!

I carried on sharpening the Maples iron late last night but resisted the temptation to try it again until the end as I simply have to step up the speed of this project!

So...after doing as much as I could to get the bun correct...I applied a couple of coats of Tru-Oil in order to check for errors and deeper scratches...






The great thing about using the sanding sealer earlier is that it seals the wood pretty well so the Tru-Oil does get absorbed but only just enough. I can see that I might need to take it up one more grit before I start to lay down coats...but when I did guitar bodies...my experience was that these scratches disappear after a few coats with sanding to 400G between coats.






I have never used Tru-Oil on crazy oak before...boy this stuff has some sneaky pockets!






I am more used to closed grain woods...which is why I like working with box!

I have to decide if I just accept this as part of the character of the wood or see what happens when I start building up the finish.

Anyone who regularly uses pippy or burr oak want to chime in here? One thing I would say...I want to stick with Tru-Oil because it doesn't....stick that is! I just love the tactile feel of it and I may take it to silk after full polishing.

Couple more things were done today. Tonight I did all of the countersinks for the infill screws and tidied up the lever cap ones as I had completely forgotten I had some quality metal countersinks! (knew they would come in handy one day!)

I also took a decent photo of the mouth with the Marples set up correctly for the first time...






Considering I haven't even touched the mouth since Richard gave it to me...this just shows how much of a superb engineer that guy was! Thank you Richard! =D> 

I don't see the mouth moving much...I have checked the sole and it's spot on already so I might just leave it like that...just line it up on the inside with the infill slope.

I like to leave Tru-Oil to harden for 24 hours per coating session of three layers.....so I will sort out the remaining bun scratches tomorrow and then start on the rear again. I also have to make iron #2 for you Pete.

On the iron front...#1 is a 5mm and is ready (almost) for shipping to Philly who is going to take a few thou off it to match the Marples and then hardening that one. Pete...I will make the one to send to you in 4mm steel and this will give me two thicknesses of iron to play around with. I think both will work for different jobs. 8) 

I might even look into the cap iron tomorrow...should only take an hour to make one...and I will probably make two....oh...and some cap iron bolts...oh...and the inset thread nuts...and....oh let's just say I'll get them done over the next few days! :lol: 

More tomorrow.

Jimi


----------



## yetloh

Lovely stuff, Jim. I do agree with you about Tru-oil. I made a recorder (the musical type) for my professional recorder player daughter out of holly from my garden and it gave a wonderful silky finish with very few coats. Lovely wood, holly. The recorder? It looks nice but the sound is loud and unsophisticated, but it is to a medieval design so at it suits that sort of music which she does occasionally play. At least I had fun making it on a course at West Dean.

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Indeed Jim...basically anything that is handled continuously would benefit from Tru-Oil. Some of the more expensive guitars, high quality shotguns...other musical instruments and indeed...tools are all candidates for the finish because of the tactile nature of the surface.

Also...it's easy to "repair" as, like French Polish....each additional layer will "burn" into the next and create a new but amalgamated surface.

I did some more work on the finish today and will come on to application later in this post.

But first...the obligatory shaving update.

Each night I tinker with the Marples edge...last night was to get the remaining TINY back bevel from the face to the "popping hair" level.

I shall avoid discussing the sharpening techniques too much for fear of attracting the usual suspects! :wink: 

Anyway....I think I have this iron running about as good as it gets...






That's willow...or is it holly...I forget. Homegrown and seasoned anyway.

Pretty shaving of the day....






Hell...after that one...let's have two today!..........






The surface of each specimen of stock is silky smooth from rough sawn...but I can't post "feel"....you'll just have to trust me on that one.

Ok..enough playing around.

It was sunny again today and as we head into a heatwave I shall be taking full advantage of the light level and the heat to do the rest of the finishing of the wood in Tru-Oil.

Last night's coat was first keyed to accept the next coat...using 1500M Micro-Mesh.






That being done...I decided to keep the Micro-Mesh out and finish off the rear metalwork....

Remembering to use a brass rod as a "straight edge" this time!  






I started at 1500M again.....and then moving through the grits up to 12000M.....






That's better!






So now to the next coat of Tru-Oil.

At this stage I thought it might be helpful to show how I apply it. I am not saying this is the right way...nor is it the only way...it's just my way....a sort of "Frank Sinatra" method! :mrgreen: 

I use a lint free "muslin"...actually...it's my son's wardrobe...one of those temporary ones you get at IKEA....rubbish as a wardrobe...brilliant as a rubber!






The "rubber" is composed of cotton wool (overseas viewers see recent thread on the subject!)....with the muslin cloth wrapped around it thus...






Basically....any cloth which is "lint free" will do to prevent fibres being shed into the finish and ruining it.

It is important to clean off all the dust from the previous stage first....






A crazy mutt is not an essential part of the kit...and indeed, can sometimes be a hinderance.....






....as they tend to want to "clear up" before that stage is reached.....






...with resultant delays at this stage of the project!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

DARN DOG!!!

Ok...with the game over...and the surface dust free and smooth.....






....we are ready to apply the next coat.

This is done with the grain. Ok ok ok...I know..in this instance that is like saying follow the straight path through Hampton Court maze but you get my drift...






Fairly light but even pressure is needed and you must keep going. Then when you reach the end you do the next pass, slightly overlapping the first one...until you reach the far edge.

Never go back to "fix" a bit you've missed. This will spoil that area. It doesn't matter if you do have patchy areas. These soon disappear as the coats are built up and sanded between each coat.

The fantastic burr figuring is now really starting to jump out...






...the decision to bookmatch two halves of the infill is now really paying off...with a pattern akin to the vessel which forms the handle ploughing its way through the waters of the infill.....

(Lord KNOWS where that last bit came from! I blame sunstroke!!) :mrgreen: 

That's all for today folks.....more on Thursday...work tomorrow (damn and blast!) #-o 

Jimi (AND ALFIE AGAIN!)


----------



## jimi43

I work Wednesdays but I managed to fit in some bits and bobs before going....

First...some black Allen bolts arrived....






This will be option 2.

Corneel....I have bought some CSK M5 brass bolts with slot heads too....just for you and this will be option 3

I have a feeling this will be the one that most suits so you are probably right! 8) 

We can have a democratic vote on that issue once I have the brass screws ground down (last thing!) and then all three can be compared.

Last night I did coat number 3 of Tru-Oil and today..coat number 4 was applied...and we are now starting to see the value of Tru-Oil coming out....






....and sunshine also shows the correct natural colour of this beautiful wood....






Tru-Oil is quite hard work...it's not an instant finish...but it will be worth it in the end.

ALFIE and me also had a break and played with a selection of planes...on a piece of wood Richard Arnold gave to me...






We're going to make something special for the infill.....but that's a secret at the moment (if ALFIE can keep secrets that is!) :mrgreen: 

Stewart was really getting a work out though...lovely plane that....

Jimi (and ALFIE!)


----------



## Corneel

jimi43":382hsi8k said:


> Corneel....I have bought some CSK M5 brass bolts with slot heads too....just for you and this will be option 3
> 
> I have a feeling this will be the one that most suits so you are probably right! 8)
> 
> We can have a democratic vote on that issue once I have the brass screws ground down (last thing!) and then all three can be compared.



:lol: 

On a Honda streetracer, allan bolts look fine, but on an old Norton Manx? Or a Triumph Speedtwin?

Your Infill deserves better then allan bolts.


----------



## jimi43

Corneel":1fthewpu said:


> jimi43":1fthewpu said:
> 
> 
> 
> Corneel....I have bought some CSK M5 brass bolts with slot heads too....just for you and this will be option 3
> 
> I have a feeling this will be the one that most suits so you are probably right! 8)
> 
> We can have a democratic vote on that issue once I have the brass screws ground down (last thing!) and then all three can be compared.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:
> 
> On a Honda streetracer, allan bolts look fine, but on an old Norton Manx? Or a Triumph Speedtwin?
> 
> Your Infill deserves better then allan bolts.
Click to expand...


And do you know what the silly thing is Corneel....I totally agree with you from a "traditional" standpoint...I just want to cover all options.

The brass bolts should be with me tomorrow.

Cheers mate

Jim


----------



## yetloh

We don't have to be slaves to tradition. Personally, I think some nice stainless Allen bolts with the socket ends cleaned up to remove the writing they often have would look good. If you were making this to appeal to the deeply conservative antique plane market, you would have to use slotted screws (probably not in brass), but you are not, so you can make a very personal choice.

Jim


----------



## pedder

Wow is, what I think everytime I return to this thread.
You must be very proud Jim and so Richard is sure, wherever he is! 

Cheers
Pedder


----------



## morfa

I think I'd rather brass allen bolts tbh. But I'm easy. It looks wonderful either way. It's looking lovely with the oil and the like on it.


----------



## Corneel

yetloh":3df5ojln said:


> We don't have to be slaves to tradition. Personally, I think some nice stainless Allen bolts with the socket ends cleaned up to remove the writing they often have would look good. If you were making this to appeal to the deeply conservative antique plane market, you would have to use slotted screws (probably not in brass), but you are not, so you can make a very personal choice.
> 
> Jim



The plane is deeply traditional as it is. The shape of the infills, the dovetails and the curves of the steel are very much according to 19th century fashion.


----------



## yetloh

Corneel":2hzc1itl said:


> The plane is deeply traditional as it is. The shape of the infills, the dovetails and the curves of the steel are very much according to 19th century fashion.



I agree, but so what? It is a completely personal choice in a piece made by a craftsman for his own use.

Jim


----------



## jimi43

morfa":15fzgwnr said:


> I think I'd rather brass allen bolts tbh. But I'm easy. It looks wonderful either way. It's looking lovely with the oil and the like on it.



HA! Another variable...option 4!

Will try and see if I can find brass ALLEN bolts...couldn't see any on fleaBay....will keep searching.



yetloh":15fzgwnr said:


> Corneel":15fzgwnr said:
> 
> 
> 
> The plane is deeply traditional as it is. The shape of the infills, the dovetails and the curves of the steel are very much according to 19th century fashion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but so what? It is a completely personal choice in a piece made by a craftsman for his own use.
> 
> Jim
Click to expand...


I see both sides...and as I say...let's get all the options and then we can vote! More fun that way.

Off out to do more coats of Tru-Oil and bask in the sun with ALFIE!

England like this is like no other place on earth! 8) 8) 

Jimi


----------



## morfa

jimi43":53psm8wd said:


> morfa":53psm8wd said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'd rather brass allen bolts tbh. But I'm easy. It looks wonderful either way. It's looking lovely with the oil and the like on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA! Another variable...option 4!
> 
> Will try and see if I can find brass ALLEN bolts...couldn't see any on fleaBay....will keep searching.
Click to expand...


Heh, feel free to totally ignore me. No need to bother. In fact if you tell me what size etc you need, if I can find some I'll buy them and post them to you. Save you the effort.


----------



## jimi43

morfa":39luqp8s said:


> jimi43":39luqp8s said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> morfa":39luqp8s said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think I'd rather brass allen bolts tbh. But I'm easy. It looks wonderful either way. It's looking lovely with the oil and the like on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HA! Another variable...option 4!
> 
> Will try and see if I can find brass ALLEN bolts...couldn't see any on fleaBay....will keep searching.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Heh, feel free to totally ignore me. No need to bother. In fact if you tell me what size etc you need, if I can find some I'll buy them and post them to you. Save you the effort.
Click to expand...


On the contrary...I find it is often the "left field" suggestions which turn out to be the most suitable!

I will get hold of some from somewhere and we shall do a visual comparison...plenty of time but this is JUST the sort of ideas feedback I seek! Keep it coming! =D> 

Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

jimi43":1eqa9gbw said:


> On the contrary...I find it is often the "left field" suggestions which turn out to be the most suitable!
> 
> Jimi



Challenge accepted

http://www.amazon.com/2-Piece-Smiley-Fa ... B00KSAGYAW

COAT.

Keep up the great work Jimi.


----------



## Mrs T

Mr_P":1oqviihv said:


> jimi43":1oqviihv said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary...I find it is often the "left field" suggestions which turn out to be the most suitable!
> 
> Jimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge accepted
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/2-Piece-Smiley-Fa ... B00KSAGYAW
> 
> COAT.
> 
> Keep up the great work Jimi.
Click to expand...


WOWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## jimi43

Mr_P":2f9d21yc said:


> jimi43":2f9d21yc said:
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary...I find it is often the "left field" suggestions which turn out to be the most suitable!
> 
> Jimi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Challenge accepted
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/2-Piece-Smiley-Fa ... B00KSAGYAW
> 
> COAT.
> 
> Keep up the great work Jimi.
Click to expand...


HA HA HA!!!

Brilliant! Pity they're Imperial!! :mrgreen: :roll: 

Just put coat #5 on....LORDY LORDY LORDY!!!

And I got the CSK brass slot M5 bolts Corneel....

More later!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## Corneel

Of course, no need to heed my advice either! It's your plane, and misses T might enjoy a word in it too.

Anyway, you did a marvelous job so far.


----------



## jimi43

Actually...Corneel...I think you may be right...







...unfortunately the slotted bolts spec is different from of all the Allen keys I bought...GRRRR!!! The height of the countersink top is too small.....so will look around for replacements....that is really annoying but you can get a rough idea from that shot what it looks like.

Ok...back to the job in hand...the finishing...

With coat #5 we are getting the build-up now...






Each time we lay a coat...it gets cut back giving a smoother base for the next coat...






This brings out the true beauty of Tru-Oil...rather like French Polishing...you get whatever finish you wish and the gloss is subtle...much more subtle than the plastic look of modern finishes.....and none of the "plastic" feel either.....






....and the grain is starting to fill in.

ALFIE was very well behaved today too!






Mostly because the lazy git was asleep throughout....it's rather hot out there!

So...anyone tell me where I can find slightly more butch brass bolts!? :roll: 

Jimi


----------



## Racers

You need a man with a lathe :wink: 

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":34vzknny said:


> You need a man with a lathe :wink:
> 
> Pete



Actually Pete...you know what...I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing not moments ago!

It really comes to something when you have to make your own bolts doesn't it! :mrgreen: 

Classy though!! 8) 

Ok...I'll make a couple of bolts.... :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

Exactly Pete, is the chap who made that stunning lever cap screw available ?

What is Isaac up to ?

If one of your slotted brass screws fancy a trip up North I'm sure I'll find an allen key to fit.


----------



## Racers

jimi43":2lghd0ty said:


> Racers":2lghd0ty said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need a man with a lathe :wink:
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Pete...you know what...I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing not moments ago!
> 
> It really comes to something when you have to make your own bolts doesn't it! :mrgreen:
> 
> Classy though!! 8)
> 
> Ok...I'll make a couple of bolts.... :mrgreen:
> 
> Jimi
Click to expand...


A couple with very slightly domed heads would look nice.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":dw9d4wi0 said:


> jimi43":dw9d4wi0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Racers":dw9d4wi0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need a man with a lathe :wink:
> 
> Pete
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually Pete...you know what...I was thinking EXACTLY the same thing not moments ago!
> 
> It really comes to something when you have to make your own bolts doesn't it! :mrgreen:
> 
> Classy though!! 8)
> 
> Ok...I'll make a couple of bolts.... :mrgreen:
> 
> Jimi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> A couple with very slightly domed heads would look nice.
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...


Ok ok guys! You win! You sold me on this! :mrgreen: 

I might even stamp each with an "R" and a "J".....why not!? 8) 

I'm on it!

Isaac is waiting to play....with the "other" thing I'm making...in between letting coats harden! :wink: 

Jimi

PS....GEEEEEE LOUISE! A *whole page* on blinking screws!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Racers

How do you sharpen your screws?

That should be good for 10+ pages.


Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":b8ettefe said:


> How do you sharpen your screws?
> 
> That should be good for 10+ pages.
> 
> 
> Pete



Sometimes Pete...you are just plain EVIL!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I'm ok if nobody asks me to change me knob! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Coat number 6....






The finish is building nicely....






These two coats need to harden properly now...24 hours so I'm off to visit Dad for his birthday....

More later and perhaps some bolt making? :wink: 

Jimi


----------



## Paul Chapman

Looking great, Jimi 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Corneel

Making screws is always fun. So, go for it, we're looking forward to the results. :twisted:


----------



## Racers

Shiny shiny shiny,can't look away.......


Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":tua8hvru said:


> Shiny shiny shiny,can't look away.......
> 
> 
> Pete



The level of shiny that can be achieved (yes this picture is upside down and then the picture reversed! 8) )






This took MUCH longer than a little plane...as the entire back had to be kept flat to work as a "piano" finish.

I reckon about another 20 coats should do it...but the key is to sand it back to flat each time...and carry on until all the scratches and aberrations are removed....

I can then decide if I want to keep it high gloss or tone it down with a selected level of Micro-Mesh.

The plane is a burr as was this guitar...






See it is quite matt...no finish on it yet but sanded fairly flat...there were a huge number of burr voids on this veneer.

This is after 30 coats of Tru-Oil...






....cut back to about 3200M to give a silk finish.

You can choose whatever level of gloss you want as long as you go beyond the chosen level then cut back.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Lovely Jimi.

I once stained black and varnished a piece of chipboard cutting back between coats until it looked like black granite, varnish is somewhat thicker.


Pete


----------



## yetloh

I'd never have thought of using OSB for a guitar!  

Jim


----------



## bugbear

jimi43":2k7acu1q said:


>



(chuckle) you have to feel sorry for acoustic guitar makers. They have to use
wonderful "tonewoods" which are perfectly uniform in grain, and vibrate nicely.

That burr would be unusable to them. No strength or resonance at all.

But, gosh darn, it's pretty!

BugBear


----------



## jimi43

Chilean Burr Birch if my memory serves me correctly BB....I think I still have a few leaves tucked away somewhere...must make use of them!

I kept it back because I wanted to veneer the headstock...






....but then I dithered and I am still to decide.

I tried nitro on the front first and for some reason it blushed...whatever I did..somehow water got into it. Tru-Oil was the only recourse but it does tend to yellow the wood...as you can see. On a guitar...this can be a good thing though.

Must finish it soon...it's been a while!

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Yes...and OSB guitar...mmmm...probably only good for shreddin'!! :mrgreen:

Ok...back to the regular programming....machine screws...






I think I may need more target practice!!!!  

I did try the "hit the stamp through paper" technique which was being talked about by Mrs Carter at Richard Arnold's event...you hit the stamp onto the metal through a piece of paper and it stops it slipping. The "R" was done this way and the "J"....not.

Unfortunately...I had to guess where the tip of the stamp should be as I couldn't see through the paper!! (homer) 

Am I doing something blindingly obviously wrong then? How on earth do you do it through paper and see what you're doing?

Intrigued! #-o 

Coats 4,5,6 were hard so they were cut back and coat #7 done...with the help of ALFIE!






Fortunately, even in this weather, he's not a shedding dog...! :mrgreen: 

The figuring is really starting to jump now and the flowering is looking sublime...






Back to bolt making in the sun!

Jimi


----------



## marcros

could you use baking parchment? (I dont know whether you can get tracing paper these days)


----------



## jimi43

marcros":typon566 said:


> could you use baking parchment? (I dont know whether you can get tracing paper these days)



DOH!! Bloody obvious when you think about it! (homer) 

Thanks mate! I have a pad of tracing paper somewhere in my art box I think!

Cheers!!!

Jimi


----------



## Racers

How about masking tape?

Pete


----------



## gasman

Jimi it is all looking great - really beautiful all round.
Re the initials on the brass bolts - what about using sticky labels - if you stick one to the end of the bolt, trim it round and in the slot then you will see exactly where to strike?? Just a thought
Cheers and really well done
Mark


----------



## jimi43

There is a masking tape that's transparent too I believe Pete...another great idea!

Cheers Mark..excellent idea with the labels..in fact they can be pre-stamped to give the correct letter location and act as a guide! Brilliant!! It's coming along and I hope we are on the final lap now! 8) 

That being said...I did two major modifications to the design today.

Firstly...the lever cap. I needed to remove quite a bit of stock from the front of this to allow for fingers to get into the throat and clear any shavings. Also...I reshaped the rear of the bun so that this also allowed further clearance. This solved the problem very quickly and there is little visible evidence of either of these modifications.







The layer of Tru-Oil was applied this afternoon so that needs cutting back but even so..the surface aberrations and open grain are disappearing rapidly....






I will have more of a clue about how much further is needed once I cut this session back tomorrow....






But we're going in the right direction....






I have a pretty full weekend of work and other plans...one of which includes the Saturday 5:30am bootfair...but it is expected to be raining heavily by then...we shall see.

If this is the case then I shall retire to the workshop and get the cap iron and second iron done...and maybe tinker with the lever cap bolts.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Mrs T

Bloody hell, Jimi, that is looking exquisite. I really love the bolts


----------



## jimi43

Mrs T":37tbsk3a said:


> Bloody hell, Jimi, that is looking exquisite. I really love the bolts



Thanks Emma...I want it to be as good as I can make it...and I'm glad you were happy to go ahead in Richard's memory.

His fine engineering has really made this a breeze...that is the sign of a master craftsman indeed!

Jimi


----------



## Phil Pascoe

:idea: There's a medical dressing tape called "Micropore" that's almost see through (you can read small print in a newspaper through it) and very sticky.


----------



## iNewbie

jimi43":2nlndirv said:


> There is a masking tape that's transparent too I believe Pete...another great idea!



There's a masking film - and one known make is: Frisket.


----------



## jimi43

Ya know....I have a few sheets if masking film.....from my airbrushing days!

Amazing how you forget these things.

Indoor shot...






Amazing the effect of natural vs artificial light!

Quite a ways to go yet! 8) 

Jim


----------



## G S Haydon

Enjoying this a great deal Jimi, nice book choice too


----------



## jimi43

G S Haydon":3jx5x4js said:


> Enjoying this a great deal Jimi, nice book choice too



Cheers GS!

Yes...I bought two..the first was a penny the second...£8 but both were worth every penny!

The first was for my daughter who has just bought a Georgian cottage and I liked it so much...I had to have one.

That price...it seemed rude not to eh!? :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Last coat of the day...and some polishing of the lever cap ready to send to Chalco...






I'm going to have to do this again in the daylight...there are a few scratches that I didn't get out totally at early stages of abrasion and they are showing.

But generally...the effect of the silky look of the Tru-Oil is now starting to come through.






Almost all of the scratches are now gone...and I just want to get the open grain to disappear below the surface and we can then cut back and polish.

The thunder and lightning was amazing tonight and sitting on the patio at close to midnight working was a rare treat...I love thunderstorms and ALFIE was not bothered either...my old dog Jake used to suffer so much so I'm really pleased! ALFIE's as tough as old boots! :mrgreen: 

Night all...hopefully bootfair in a few hours! (we can always hope!) 

Jimi


----------



## yetloh

jimi43":3pnoj2j2 said:


> Yes...and OSB guitar...mmmm...probably only good for shreddin'!! :mrgreen:
> 
> Jimi



Fabulous skills and what a showman.

The plane gets better by the day and that lever cap is looking very sexy.

Jim


----------



## AndyT

Just a thought on lining up the letters R and J - I think you need to make a simple jig, where the brass rod is pushed into a tight fitting hole and the letter punches (which I assume are square on the body) rest in an internal corner made in a couple of cross pieces.

Alternatively, is it another detail Chalco could do, if not too dazzled by that extraordinary lever cap? :wink:


----------



## jimi43

At work at the moment and we have British Superbikes at Brands Hatch so will be brief...

Thanks Jim...I'm only sorry I couldn't get a fixing as swish as Karl...I did ponder that briefly and then decided simplicity was probably the best way without CNC.  

Actually Andy...I think I will just ask Ian to do the job right...he's away on holiday until August so we've agreed to get the engraving done then...so the pressure's off a bit now and I can focus on machine screw head design...that'll be fun in itself!

Glad I have the Sieg C6B as I would hate to attempt this on the old Myford.

Slight dome head I think....we'll see.

Coat no 8 and 9 applied before I left for work...so they can have time to harden for a while.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

After a weekend of layers of Tru-Oil...it's now time to test to see if we have enough or another set are required and for this we need to cut back the existing finish to flat...






It does look like we're nearly there so I decided to run this up to full gloss...







Doing this by hand is really relaxing...and you get to work on your tan too...but there are a few distractions....






....especially with quality control always present to check your work!

But with all this fine dust around...it's handy to have the upgraded dust extraction system on hand....






So...just as a reminder...we start cutting back using 1500M Micro-Mesh and work up to 12000M...making sure at each step, the preceding scratches are removed....






I've been asked to make sure I get clear shots of the amazing figuring of this wonderful burr....so for the people who've asked...how about this one...






There are swirls and pips...and cutting through it all...the most amazing flower(ing?) I have seen.






All nine meshes on three elements took most of the day...and then just as it threatened to pour down...I called it a day.






So with a little help from my mate ALFIE...






...we finished for now...






...and we leave today with a few more shots...as the sun goes down...

























Oh...and before anyone asks...I put a new disc on my sander and took out those pesky tiny scratches on the lever cap...and back to matt...so I can start polishing all over again... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 


Jim


----------



## G S Haydon

I wondered what had happened to the lever cap. That Burl is looking very special.


----------



## jimi43

G S Haydon":15cvb1p9 said:


> I wondered what had happened to the lever cap. That Burl is looking very special.



Yes Graham...I had a few tiny scratches right where the engraving is going to be done...so it had to go back to base matt again and I will have a chat with Ian at Chalco...I think that part might look better matt with the "glossiness" of the engraving standing out more...but I will check.

Jimi


----------



## tobytools

Cracking work Jimi, I can't wait to see the engraving complete. 
This plane it just out of this world and far better than any S&S and holtey combined.


When you finish this master piece you might want to take a break and build my infill kit for me 
All parts are made just need assembling and finishing 

Ttfn 
TT


----------



## jimi43

if Konrad and Karl had been mates in kindergarten *maybe* close Toby!! :mrgreen: 

I think your infill kit would be an ideal project once you get going in college don't you? 8) 

Jim


----------



## tobytools

jimi43":3tcgh1k3 said:


> if Konrad and Karl had been mates in kindergarten *maybe* close Toby!! :mrgreen:
> 
> I think your infill kit would be an ideal project once you get going in college don't you? 8)
> 
> Jim





I will make a project one day I guess. Tho I dout I'll ever get around to it, anyways that's of the back burner for a decade or so.
First is, woodwork...
Then making plane irons and wedges 

Sorry not trying to hijack thread 

As allways Jimi keep it up 

TT


----------



## jimi43

Hijack away Toby...that's partly what this thread is for...learning and development.

And on that very subject..we moved today to the making of the cap iron.

I say "we" because....yet again...I had help!







As always...ALFIE has to be involved at each stage!!

As I briefly mentioned before...I wanted something a bit more than just a bit of bent metal...so I have been doing some research.

I love the shape of the Clifton two part cap iron at the very front where it mates with the face of the iron.

And also there is a belief that when the cap iron and iron are mated tightly the spring in the cap iron should close down flat onto the surface of the iron to create a very thick and undeformed integrated unit.

To this end we cut a piece of 3mm x 70mm O1 Saxon Ground Flat Stock....






(apologies for the poor focus on this one...phone was used again!)

Having cut the rough shaped blank...this was draw filed to clean up saw marks from the hacksaw...






An 8mm tapping hole was then drilled in the correct place...and this is always just below the place the lever cap bolt will rest when the iron is new...as the iron is sharpened and is shortened...the whole slot moves down and the cap iron stays where it is so this is critical.

That's right isn't it ALFIE????






I tarted up an old original bolt for the cap iron in the standard way and used a 3/8" 16 BSW tap to tap the hole drilled with an 8mm clearance hole.






....and it fitted perfectly...






The cap iron was then given a slight bend at exactly the same place as the old Marples one.

On the inner face of the cap iron a recess was milled out...and this is where the design differs from the original...






The front lip has a bevel on it....this is shown in the "untightened" position...and as the nut is tightened...the rear main body of the cap iron moves downwards and mates with the iron...leaving the recess and the bevel pinching down very tightly at the leading edge contact point.

There will now follow questions and suggestions (if I know our forum members!)....and of course I welcome this. The definitive design however, won't be fully proven until I get the iron back from hardening and I can do some actual testing. In the meantime...I will be reinforcing the protruding cap iron screw with the brass boss common with planes of old.






I was going to bevel the top of the cap iron but I quite like the plain look...what do you think guys and gals?






All for today...tomorrow I work...but I may be able to rough out the lever cap bolts...or mark the next iron...we'll see.

Cheers

Jimi (and ALFIE!)


----------



## rxh

I think the cap iron looks fine as it is and suits the overall style of the plane.


----------



## jimi43

rxh":9c5jya9d said:


> I think the cap iron looks fine as it is and suits the overall style of the plane.



I did too...but in truth...I think that doing the three bevels as is traditional...is open to all sorts of failure...they have to be so very perfect and I am frightened of getting that wrong.

If I have enough energy left I will do it on the second one...and we can compare.

I just know it's an accident waiting to happen!! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## woodbrains

Hello,

Stop wimping out and put the bevels on! You've done everything else so brilliantly, why would you get it wrong? If you're honest, it needs them, they look right.

Mike.


----------



## jimi43

woodbrains":ca2lnpi1 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Stop wimping out and put the bevels on! You've done everything else so brilliantly, why would you get it wrong? If you're honest, it needs them, they look right.
> 
> Mike.



You are quite right Mike...total wimp!!! :mrgreen: 

So that second one will be for you mate...and then we can vote on it.

The head on my mill does tilt but I spent so bloody long setting up the tramming...I don't really want to muck about with it again so I will probably bevel the top by hand starting with the lateral one and then doing the ears.

Thanks for the encouragement! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## Harbo

Really Nice work Jim 

I suppose Philly is the man to ask, but I thought grinding the bevel was done after hardening to prevent differential heating treatment over the taper or unless you use different thicknesses of protective clay like the Japanese sword smiths?

Though I could be reading your WIP wrong of course? 


Rod


----------



## Corneel

Yes bevels! I love these long wide bevels on the old woodies and infills.

It looks like you put a 45 degree angle on the front of the capiron. That's about perfect!


----------



## jimi43

Harbo":2id8e6pi said:


> Really Nice work Jim
> 
> I suppose Philly is the man to ask, but I thought grinding the bevel was done after hardening to prevent differential heating treatment over the taper or unless you use different thicknesses of protective clay like the Japanese sword smiths?
> 
> Though I could be reading your WIP wrong of course?
> 
> 
> Rod



Funny enough Rod...I did ask Philly that very thing last week and he told me to grind the bevel as it's a nightmare to do it when it's hardened.

I think his method of hardening involves something out of Star Trek and I think it doesn't matter. 

But you've set me thinking about what to do with the other one Pete's doing for me.....what do you think Pete?

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Corneel":1nrwfkhs said:


> Yes bevels! I love these long wide bevels on the old woodies and infills.
> 
> It looks like you put a 45 degree angle on the front of the capiron. That's about perfect!



It's a good job I'm making two then...with the split opinion we have here already.

It will be tomorrow now as I start work at 3pm.  

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

jimi43":39z2a0xj said:


> Harbo":39z2a0xj said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Nice work Jim
> 
> I suppose Philly is the man to ask, but I thought grinding the bevel was done after hardening to prevent differential heating treatment over the taper or unless you use different thicknesses of protective clay like the Japanese sword smiths?
> 
> Though I could be reading your WIP wrong of course?
> 
> 
> Rod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny enough Rod...I did ask Philly that very thing last week and he told me to grind the bevel as it's a nightmare to do it when it's hardened.
> 
> I think his method of hardening involves something out of Star Trek and I think it doesn't matter.
> 
> But you've set me thinking about what to do with the other one Pete's doing for me.....what do you think Pete?
> 
> Jimi
Click to expand...


Hi Jimi

Grind the bevel up to about 0.5-1mm of the face, to leave some meat to get decarburized and ground away when its sharpened.

Its what I do with my blades.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":9hpxro3v said:


> jimi43":9hpxro3v said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Harbo":9hpxro3v said:
> 
> 
> 
> Really Nice work Jim
> 
> I suppose Philly is the man to ask, but I thought grinding the bevel was done after hardening to prevent differential heating treatment over the taper or unless you use different thicknesses of protective clay like the Japanese sword smiths?
> 
> Though I could be reading your WIP wrong of course?
> 
> 
> Rod
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny enough Rod...I did ask Philly that very thing last week and he told me to grind the bevel as it's a nightmare to do it when it's hardened.
> 
> I think his method of hardening involves something out of Star Trek and I think it doesn't matter.
> 
> But you've set me thinking about what to do with the other one Pete's doing for me.....what do you think Pete?
> 
> Jimi
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hi Jimi
> 
> Grind the bevel up to about 0.5-1mm of the face, to leave some meat to get decarburized and ground away when its sharpened.
> 
> Its what I do with my blades.
> 
> Pete
Click to expand...


Wilco Captain!!! 8) 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Nothing much to show today as I spent the day making the second iron...the one that Pete has kindly offered to harden in his barbeque....I expect pictures of that bit mate!! 8) 

So...this time we are using 5 mm stock....






It really is quite amazing how much easier it is to cut for every mm that the thickness is reduced....but cutting 23 cm of the excess off had me sweating a bit, I can tell you!  






Then it was over to the mill for some more drilling and milling...






So that's most of the metal stuff over with....






I haven't put the bevel on it yet Pete...I will do that tomorrow and get it off to you as soon as it's done.

The final coats of Tru-Oil will go on between now and next week...I got a new bottle as my old one was getting rather thick and for this one I needed a fresh supply. It's handy to have a gun shop in the next village!!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi

Looks a lot easier cutting the slot with a mill rather than a hacksaw like I have to!

Pictures will be done of the hardening process and the subsequent food metamorphism.

Pete 

p.s. all that fancy marking out kit and an old tape?


----------



## Tom K

There is no way you could cut the excess using the mill?



jimi43":9lcd52fr said:


> It really is quite amazing how much easier it is to cut for every mm that the thickness is reduced....but cutting 23 cm of the excess off had me sweating a bit, I can tell you!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then it was over to the mill for some more drilling and milling...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that's most of the metal stuff over with....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Tom K":3ufueqqi said:


> There is no way you could cut the excess using the mill?



I did the first one on the mill...took off about 7mm with an end mill and it took just as long and was rather "messy"! :mrgreen: 

By the time you've set it all up and clamped it all down you're half way through with a hacksaw armed with a new Swedish blade.

Plus...the sun was shining and I don't get a tan in the workshop! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

The slot...now that's a different kettle of fish altogether! :wink: 

Jimi


----------



## DTR

jimi43":wl3yhlzh said:


> Tom K":wl3yhlzh said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no way you could cut the excess using the mill?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did the first one on the mill...took off about 7mm with an end mill and it took just as long and was rather "messy"! :mrgreen:
> 
> By the time you've set it all up and clamped it all down you're half way through with a hacksaw armed with a new Swedish blade.
Click to expand...


While it might not save any time in this instance, I absolutely despise hacksawing so I use this contraption on my Myford:






It's less messy and wasteful than milling off the excess. I'm actually thinking about getting a Burgess 3-wheeler and using it just for sawing metal. 

Love how the infill is coming along Jimi, it's a work of art


----------



## jimi43

Earlier this year...I was saddened to have to remove a beautiful old eucalyptus tree which was threatening to kill my neighbour..(I nearly beat it too it! :mrgreen: ) who threatened me with a solicitor's letter if I didn't sort it...






I loved that tree but it was getting way to big so now...it's a photo set!






And look!! The tree's growing back so "up yours neighbour!! :mrgreen: )....and I simply love the way the ivy is taking over...searching for every crevice and hold...such a wonderful plant ivy...as long as it's not near the house!

So...I think we're nearly done with the finish...a few more coat sets should do it...






I don't want to go cutting off the heads of the screws until I'm really certain as it's MUCH easier to take the bun and the handle out to apply the finish at this stage.






In the natural light you get to see the true colour of this fabulous wood...Mike at MAC Timbers certainly can pick wood!






Another benefit of being near this photo location...you get to see all the other beautiful things around...






...and ALFIE gets to chat to his friend over the wall....






Cheers...

Jimi and ALFIE!


----------



## jimi43

Hi Dave

Yup...you're right...a cutoff saw would be the answer and I have one somewhere but it's setting it up etc...but I do like the idea of getting another Burgess and if TUFFSAWS make metal blades...that might be an answer.

I think I might be able to cut straighter by hand however...even it it does take me hours these days!  

I got through a few new blades, I can tell ya! :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Harbo

Come on nicely but Crikey Jim who built that wall? 

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Harbo":iu0edfn0 said:


> Come on nicely but Crikey Jim who built that wall?
> 
> Rod



Suffice to say..it wasn't me! :mrgreen: 

AND...my neighbour had the cheek to say that the tree roots were pushing the wall over! :roll: 

Gee Louise...ALFIE could push that wall over on his own!! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Hi Pete....

Finally finished the iron to send to you for hardening...







As requested...I've left between 0.5mm and 1.0mm on the leading edge.






Cheers mate

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Before I head off to this morning's bootfair...a quick question for an impending job.

Before I file the heads off of the infill screws...what to people think about peining the heads down into the countersinks or just grinding them straight off?

Any experience with this final act?

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi

I didn't pein the screws on my scraper plane and it turned out ok. 
It the countersink angle matches the screw head it shouldn't matter. 

Can't wait for the blade. 

Pete


----------



## Harbo

There's a feature in the latest F&C about Norris Planes - some of the early ones had all the screw heads and grooves showing.

Rod


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Yeah - but they weren't as good as this one.


----------



## jimi43

Ha! You guys are so kind! Huge exaggerations but kind, none-the-less!! :mrgreen: 

Over the last few nights I have been having nightmares about how to make the bolts for the lever cap! This is one thing that really worried me because I had never made a bolt before and I spent all this time working out how to do it.

In the end..it turned out fairly easy...

First...round bar just a bit bigger than the biggest part of the head...






But setting the edge of the cutting tool at precisely the correct angle for the countersink...I could cut back the stock to way over the required length and create the correct countersink shoulder at the same time. 

Note...here I have tested the diameter of the stock at the very end first so I know how far to go for the right thread diameter...or so I thought!

Unfortunately...I measured an M6 bolt when in fact...I was supposed to be making an M5 bolt! (homer) 

Now...this sort of error I can cope with...although it was not ideal...but taking more off when you realise is easier than putting it back on again!!

So then I could cut the thread back to the head with the die.






So...just to make sure I had not gone completely mad...I tested it on the lever cap....






Well that worked! :mrgreen: 

Now to combine two actions...the cutting of the dome and the parting of the bolt from the stock...






Fortunately the V-cutter had just about the right angle on the other face to leave it was it was and cut back the dome...move and cut again...






(apologies again for a phone shot with poor depth of field!)

Now...I had a rough plan on cutting the slot...varying in setting up a slit saw...to milling using a fine milling bit...but in the end...I just scratched it out with a parting tool and no power on the lathe...






Ok...probably not orthodox but it worked...the brass being very soft and the parting edge being very hard..

But it took a while!! :mrgreen: 

Well...it needs a bit of finishing but it came out ok!






And finally to test fit...






I have left it proud...deliberately...while I make the other one (tomorrow!).

I am pretty sure I want to slim it down and get it to hit the steel JUST at the point of the top of the countersink. Also...I have a feeling that I need to reduce the amount of camber in the dome...but again..I want to get used to it and decide.

The old adage that you can take a bit off but you can't add it back on again...definitely applies here!

What do you guys and girls think?

Pete has also confirmed receipt of the thinner of the two blades and I will be sending the other one to Philly once I have these bolts sorted.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## HarryJ

Jimi, 
As you probably know I haven't actually posted on here before, however I have been following every step with great interest! (even going back to the ones before I joined the forum!) 
I have just thought that my considerable inexperience would hinder rather than help with the progress of such a master piece.

The method which you used to cut the slot in the screw head is one I have been pondering for a while now, but have never had a chance to test it. As you say, it might be a bit unorthodox, but it works and now I know that it does!

Thanks,
Harry


----------



## G S Haydon

I wish I could add something Jimi but this metalworking has me lost. All I know is that the final result is going to be good. Keep it comming.


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi

I think it would be better slightly below the body countersink so the top of the dome is flush with the surface.
A very slight dome on the bolt just to make it look like its hand made, but feel free to disagree with me.

Pete


----------



## AndyT

Looking great Jim.
I agree with you that you should aim for the sweet spot where the rim disappears to nothing, so the dome rises from the surface with no step and the bottom of the slot coincides with the rim. I'm sure you can do it now you've had a practice run. Compared to other parts of this masterpiece, it's relatively practical to make several screws and carry on until you have a pair of perfect ones. 

Judging from the photos the convexity of the head looks just right.


----------



## jimi43

Hi Harry

Thanks for your first post..and to go back to the rest of the thread was an epic feat...I think I'll leave that till the end! :mrgreen: 
I have to say, I try to avoid metalwork unless it is necessary to make something I can't buy and making bolts was never on my agenda...I would have preferred to just buy some but owning to a poor assumption on my part...the countersinks are now a done job and the fact that the only brass ones I can find are too small a head...forced me to embark on this crazy route!

Hence cutting the heads has never been on my "how to do it" list! :lol: But I figured I would give this method a go for such a small item and it did work. I'm glad that it has now given you the confidence to try it...it certainly saves a lot of setting up for the other more common methods!

GS...I certainly will keep the posts coming...the time it's taking me...this makes Ben Hur look like a short story though!  

Now...Pete and Andy...thanks for the feedback. I think I know what the optimum solution to this is...and that's to cut a shelf in the countersink in the body and leave the bolt as it is so that the parallel sides sit down on the shelf...the dome recesses and all is hunky dory...BUT....

...what I would need was a shelf cutter which has a guide centre the same size hole as the clearance hole is now....with radial cutters to cut the parallel sided shelf...

And before anyone says..."why not make one Jim"...... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 

It think I shall go ponder plan B! :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jim


----------



## jimi43

UPDATE.....

I knew I had some such beastie in my "found at bootfair and may be useful one day" drawer:






Sadly...this one is just a tad too small...so anyone know what these beasties are called.

I assume they are used to recess cheesehead screws into steel so that they are flush...the outer edge will produce a shelf right to the bottom while the centre drills the hole.

It's worth buying one the right size for this...I may be using this technique again.

Any ideas?

Jimi


----------



## Sheffield Tony

You want to make a counterbore with a flat bottom ?

You could make something like that by taking an unloved carbon steel drill, annealing it, turning it down then rehardening it, I guess.
Or drill the head recess partly with a regular drill, then flatten the shoulder using one with the end ground off square ?

Or splash out on someting like this:

http://www.presto-tools.cn/product_deta ... uctid=1048

I remember passing the Presto works on our Saturday shopping trips into Sheffield city centre. Now presto.cn - we're doomed !


----------



## rxh

Jimi,
It is called a counterbore or spot facer. Try Tracy Tools for supply.


----------



## jimi43

AH!!

Thanks guys! Yes..counterbore..of course...and that link shows there is an 11mm one which is what I need.

Ok...we're cooking on gas.

I am however typing this using Braille! :mrgreen: 

I had totally forgot they dilate my eyes to do the diabetic retinal scan and so I am now totally useless for a few hours...

Blast...and I was raring to go on this today.

I think we're getting somewhere now though.

Thanks Tony and Richard.

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

As Andy says..I can make as many of these bolts as I want so when my eyes started to focus I took the dome down to the "sweet spot" and this was the result...






What's the thinking?







The sun was going behind the house so a little difficult to see how much this sticks out...






...not sure that taking it into artificial light makes it easier to see but here ya go...






I need to sort out the finish but the profile is rather pleasing.....

Views please??

I bought an M6 HSS counterbore on FleaBay and when that arrives I will decide whether to use this to recess the bolt.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Looks dam good Jimi.

Pete


----------



## AndyT

Yep, I'd call that spot on. This is one special plane.


----------



## jimi43

Phew...well that's alright then! 8) 

When two different ideas merge into unity....I can rest easy...and go and make No. 2

I will be selling these bolts on Fleabay later in the week...£80 a pair...BARGAIN!!!  

They have to be the most expensive bleedin' bolts ever made...a whole day's work... NEXT time I make one of these infilly thingies....I will buy some expensive bolts and design the holes around them! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: 

Thankfully...my eyesight has now been restored to normal...now all I've got to do is remember each step in sequence...including the tweeks! #-o 

Jimi


----------



## Sheffield Tony

Do I take it that you never want to use a plane like this on a shooting board ?

It's looking amazing .


----------



## jimi43

Sheffield Tony":22yo7r7g said:


> Do I take it that you never want to use a plane like this on a shooting board ?
> 
> It's looking amazing .



AH!

Now I hadn't thought of that...and even the remotest possibility that I might would scupper that idea wouldn't it!  

Very observant of you mate! I guess it might be best to recess to the top of the dome then in which case I will have to wait for the M6 counterbore which should be here before the weekend...all things being equal.

The second one took only an hour so I guess I know what I'm doing now...







This one is closer than the last one was before I made it exact too...only a shaving to come off this side.

I polished up the Tru-Oil to see if we need a few more coats and the decision is yes...we do...quite a few more. 

I will put another layer on tonight.

Jimi


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I must admit I wondered why those heads were being left proud - but I just thought oh well, he knows what he's doing - who am I to fault find?


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I've started now - is there any reason for the screw in the cap to be so long? I'd have thought it would look nicer shorter.


----------



## jimi43

Ah right Phil...well let's answer the simple question first...the lever cap bolt.



phil.p":3mfgmtej said:


> - is there any reason for the screw in the cap to be so long?



There isn't and it isn't going to be. That's just left more than final length so that I can saw off what I don't need when I'm done with all the setup.

I suppose that could really be now with this iron which is the thickest but I've just not got around to shortening it yet. There will be at least a third less when finished and the knob will be about three threads up from bottoming out.

Now...the more difficult question...why are the lever cap side bolts proud...well...they're probably not going to be now following from Tony's observation about shooting board use.

Richard did set the sides so that with the infills in (instead of the spreader)....the sides would be parallel and square to the sole so I guess it would be naughty of me to then bugga this all up but adding side screws which are proud. SO....the plan is to use the counterbore shown on the previous page to set a shelf down in the side so that this dome is still there but the top of it is level with the outer side wall. 

I think this would be neater anyway...I'm just being lazy!! :mrgreen: 

Thinking this way has made me wonder whether a complete cheesehead bolt would be better with a flat top flush with the sides...and maybe a tiny polished bevel...I have that option too.

I hope this answers your questions.....and you just reinforced my thoughts about counterboring them...so thanks for kicking me on the job.

I just hope it doesn't go all skew whiff when I do it!!  

Cheers

Jimi

p.s. Anyone else see the waterfall from the top of the bun to the toe? I look at this too much and I'm starting to see things!!!


----------



## lanemaux

Actually Jimi , I see a prone tiger if it (the plane) were lain on it's right hand side. Thats right hand as you use it and seen from the front and top at an oblique angle. But that's just me.


----------



## AndyT

Well, this proves the wisdom of sharing all your musings online!

I think a submerged domed screw would look like a mismatch. A flat cheese head screw in a hole with a matching flat counter bore would be a good simple option. You have plenty of sidewall thickness to accommodate this. You might even be able to buy the screws!

I guess you got too used to looking at the plane while it still has the infill screws protruding.


----------



## rxh

Jimi,
If you decide to use the counterbore, please try it on some scrap metal first


----------



## MickCheese

£80 for two screws attached to that lovely plane is a bargain. Put me down for two.  

Really enjoying the read and I love your photography. 

Mick


----------



## jimi43

lanemaux":acj0cjjl said:


> Actually Jimi , I see a prone tiger if it (the plane) were lain on it's right hand side. Thats right hand as you use it and seen from the front and top at an oblique angle. But that's just me.



My ante-espresso brain first thought that your comment was based on the inability of the plane to lie flat on its side and that "prone tiger" was some sort of French colloquialism for "latent problem"....then I realised that you were reflecting on my musings on the figuring. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

As it was about 4 am when I read it having been woken up by ALFIE who needed a pee...I then spent ten minutes trying to look at the picture on its side until I realised that on my phone, I had "screen rotation" switched on...so that every time I tried to turn it sideways...it corrected itself!  (homer) 

So...leaving it until a more sensible hour and with the ability to turn the picture over in Picasa a far more sensible solution...I DO see the tiger!!! WOW! You are clearly worthy of your avatar mate! :mrgreen: 

Now..back to the problem in hand. Even though I am getting the counterbore soon...I was thinking EXACTLY what I think you are thinking rxh....that the pilot...not being the one to have created the hole itself...may decide to "throw a wobbly" in the most literal sense, taking the counterbore with it.

The very last thing I want it to create a scrappy surround. 

My immediate thought was to..... very carefully on the milling machine....set up the plane on its side backed by a lump of hardwood wedged below the screw holes and create a false pilot into the hardwood which will then guide the counterbore preventing runout. Obviously, ensuring that everything is tight first and the counterbore is right up in the chuck to prevent lateral movement.

OR....

Plan C....just make countersunk flat head bolts which was my intention in the first place leaving the slot deepish and the top a tad proud so that when I finish the sides and rub down the remains of the infill screws...this gets flattened back to the steel along with the others.

I think this is the safest overall solution by far. :idea: 

What'd ya think guys? =P~ 

Jim


----------



## jimi43

MickCheese":12c1fxxg said:


> £80 for two screws attached to that lovely plane is a bargain. Put me down for two.
> 
> Really enjoying the read and I love your photography.
> 
> Mick



Thanks Mick! You'll have to pop over for another coffee...I have some rather nice Marley "Lively Up" espresso...yup..you couldn't make it up! :mrgreen: 

Actually I can do you a half price deal on the reject bolts if you like...I should have a warehouse full by then! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

No plane attached unfortunately...that one's reserved I'm afraid and was for a limited time only! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

It's Wednesday so work again this afternoon but before I go...another two coats of Tru-Oil were laid down..one last night and one this morning when the other had dried properly.

So some shots of how the figuring is coming with the finish progressing:






Note how the flower is popping on the top of the handle...I really like this bit of the "tiger's back!".

The top of the bun is flattening nicely...






...as are the sides and scallops...






The rear infill ripples are standing out around the handle sides..






...and we are starting to get some really nice reflections which was the plan...






I will now add two more coats..tonight and tomorrow and then cut the whole lot back to flat again...






....hopefully for the last time.

When I am convinced that the addition of further layers will only increase depth and not quality of finish...that will be the time to call it a day.

I must admit...I am getting rather impatient myself now to get those screws flattened down to brass spots and reface the sides..which are looking a bit shabby with all this working going on.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Hi Jimi 

Flat screws seem to be the easer safer option, a lot less chance of a cock-up. 
Probably the best option at this stage with so much work in it. 

Pete


----------



## Bedrock

Jimi
May I very politely suggest that you are getting a bit stressed out with this screw making. I have found that hand turning countersinks and domed screw heads is pretty easy, particularly in brass.
The slots again are straightforward, in that if you leave the centre pip slightly proud, it provides an accurate marker. Mount the screw in a timber stock in a vice, then use a junior hacksaw to cut the slot and widen and take out any slight inaccuracies with a the edge of a slim warding file. All that toing and froing with the cross slide sounds a bit dull.
Given all the skills you already have shown in this masterwork, you have all the hand skills necessary, and for me, it is rather more satisfying to minimise the use of machinery.
Hopefully by this weekend, both daughters being home, I will have an silly person proof system for posting photographs, and can post some work.

Regards
Mike


----------



## jimi43

Now that the Tru-Oil has had time to harden I cut it back from 1500 mesh up to 6000 mesh and then applied a thin coat of the finish.

After this dried...I was able to see how much further to go again...






Apart from the deep burrs which I wanted to remain natural...there are still some areas I want more finish...so this is going to be cut back again after half a dozen more coats...but we are getting there slowly...






...and the sheen is coming out nicely...






I don't suppose it will be long now...






The second iron goes off to Philly tomorrow for hardening...so this gives me a while to relax and lay down the final coats...allow these at least 72 hours to harden solid and then cut back and polish.

I'm going to use the existing bolts which will cut back along with the infill screws come the time. This will be the last thing done.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

Blimey I used to call myself a perfectionist but will have to re-think that after watching this thread with great interest.

Bravo Jimi, we are simply not worthy.


----------



## yetloh

Jim,

I've just been catching up, but must agree that flat scews would be much better to my eyes - understated and completely functional, Whether it's a simple countersink on a recessed cheesehead doesn't seem very important to me. The glint of a subtle chamfer on a cheesehead would be an attractive bit of gilding, but remember that in brass, it's not going to glint for long and would soon be subtle to the point of near invisibility. It would still be a nice detail but one you would really need to look for. Is it worth the trouble?

Jim


----------



## jimi43

yetloh":2br8e8pl said:


> Jim,
> 
> I've just been catching up, but must agree that flat scews would be much better to my eyes - understated and completely functional, Whether it's a simple countersink on a recessed cheesehead doesn't seem very important to me. The glint of a subtle chamfer on a cheesehead would be an attractive bit of gilding, but remember that in brass, it's not going to glint for long and would soon be subtle to the point of near invisibility. It would still be a nice detail but one you would really need to look for. Is it worth the trouble?
> 
> Jim



Hi Jim

That's the conclusion I came to Jim. I thought I would nail that part of the project on the head before it became too involved.

All I need to do is cut the domed bolt slots below the surface a bit more and then tighten them up and flatten them to the sides when I do the whole thing for the infill screws.

I agree...brass ones are not going to look any better with a bevel or without so I will leave them flush as are all the other spots.

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Apologies...missed a couple of replies there in my rush to get today's pics up on the thread.

Mike...yes...I had thought of hacksaw and file but the idea of scraping the slot came to me in a nocturnal musing...and I just had to try it.

Actually...the second one took minutes.....and the reason being...I locked the apron down this time!!!! (homer) 

It was moving back with every turn of the cross slide before! (Did I feel a fool or what!)

I am a bit of a techno-luddite....machinery intrigues me but I love working by hand too! Both the lathe and the mill have dc motors and are whisper quiet....so much so I forget they're on sometimes!

Looking forward to the pics of your work.

Mr P....I am no perfectionist mate....more "anally retentive nut with too much time on my hands" but I thank you for your encouraging words!

Another coat is drying...so bed for me...

More tomorrow if the weather holds...

Jim


----------



## dickm

Code:




Glad you've decided on completely flush heads for the bolts - domed just didn't look right to me and I hadn't even thought of the problem with plane on its side. But there's a little voice in my head that says maybe slotted head isn't the best solution here - if nothing else, you'll have to do like vintage car freaks and make sure all the slots line up, which then raises the question of horizontal/vertical/angled alignment. I know you've already discounted the thought, but the little voice is asking why not use Allen head bolts? It would avoid the alignment question and would somehow say "this plane is homage to an old style and to a brilliant metalworker, but it's also a modern version"
Just a thought from an aesthetically challenged reader  .


----------



## jimi43

Hi Dick...and welcome on board mate!! :mrgreen: 

The good thing about these bolts is that I can take out one set...and put in another...daily if the mood takes me. 

I did start out wanting just that..modern take on an old design. The lever cap itself is certainly not traditional! But lest we break into pages of opinion on these screws...I will sidetrack a moment....

Incidentally...before I go on...those wood screws sticking out the sides ain't gonna stay like that you know! In case anyone is not aware...they are there to hold in the infills while I work on them...at the end..they become French and very aristocratic...their heads come off!!! 

So...what to do when putting yet MORE pictures up of the Tru-Oil process would be about as exciting as watching...um...paint dry...finish dry...well you know..boring!!  

Instead...I went a-whittling today...first with this baby...






...to cut down a rather straight piece of holly...which is in the way...and will become a future project.

I love working with this axe...an old WARD and PAYNE favourite of mine...(actually anything with the word WARD stamped on it is a favourite of mine).

But that was only a five minute job and ALFIE and I retired to the workshop to decide what to do with a lump of the infill burr oak which was left.

Scratching my head for a little while I espied a nice piece of square section brass I had found in a junk box a few weeks ago at the local bootfair...and the two just cried out to be mated together.

So I fired up TAYLOR...






TAYLOR is over a hundred years old...he thinks he's a metal lathe but sadly...time and wear has taken its toll on this masterpiece from Hulme...and he now serves as my (rather non-H&S) woodturning lathe.

So a bit of turning on that...and a bit of turning on the SIEG C6B....and the two lonely scrap parts were starting to become friends...






Further whittling and scrubbing and they were distinctly good friends....






Now some may notice a slight imbalance between sides...which becomes fairly explanatory when you look from the side...






The thread (ACME YEH!)...in the end is a clue...and the letters on the earlier stage on the "TOP" marked with arrows....------>BRASS on one side and ----->LV on the other side may be a clue.

YUP...the naked side will have a replaceable lignum vitae insert screwed into it for the more delicate tapping!!






There will be more on these little plane hammers as the project progresses...suffice to say that I have enough scrap for about four of these.... :wink: 

Oh...and the counterbore arrived and what a lovely piece of German engineering it is...






Well...at least it SAYS "Germany" on the tin.....it may very well come from China but it's a nice bit of steel. And the good news is...if I choose to counterbore..the holes are a TINY bit small so the pilot will cut its own way and stop judder when the big boy hits! Result!

Cheers 

Jimi


----------



## Racers

Nice adjusting hammer Jimi. 

Pete


----------



## jimi43

Racers":3d251cdc said:


> Nice adjusting hammer Jimi.
> 
> Pete



Thanks Pete.


Obviously...there's some finishing to do... the neck/head bit needs slimming and fixing....few bevels here and there....the bolt for the head and the LV insert....and maybe a matching steel insert.

Jimi


----------



## tobytools

Beautiful work jim. 
The persistence and dedication to this project is outstanding.
Keep it up.

All the best
TT


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Toby...much appreciated!

I finished off the plane adjustment hammer design today....












Just needs a bit of spit and polish and gluing up and we're done.






Work stops play as usual at weekends but will tidy it up tomorrow.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Bedrock

Love the hammer, but just think how nice it would look with hand turned radiuses between the dimension changes!

Here's a couple of photos of a small smoothing plane that I have been making for the last couple of years. Still WIP in that the blade was made from the closest O1 I could buy at the time, but needs to be a couple of mm wider.
The Norris type adjuster has a 1/4" ME thread. The lever cap was made with Holtey type hand made steel bolts. The slots in the sides of the cap were made by drilling in the bench drill cross slide, then machining the slots with Dremel bits, again using the cross slide. First time I had tried this but it was necessary to be able to remove the lever cap in order to remove and replace the blade.

The result is not as tidy as I would like, but is accurate and does the job.

All the screws and rivets were turned up from hex brass and steel, apart from the two which hold the adjuster cross bar. I think I will replace the rear adjuster knob, as it was a quick fill in from another project. It needs to be bulkier to match the lever cap screw, and with a radius to the rear to fit in the palm of the hand.
A small milling machine is a distant gleam at the moment.

















Regards Mike


----------



## Bedrock

While you are showing off your Ward and Payne axe, I've had this Ward paring chisel for some years. ! 1/2" wide and blade length 10". Realise that this may need it's own thread, but does anyone have any idea how old it might be?
The primary bevel seems to be the original. It doesn't get a lot of use but when it does, it's perfect.
















Mike


----------



## jimi43

Hi Mike

Sorry for the delay replying..I work weekends and didn't finish until 2am today so just getting to the messages.

First...your plane.

Nice job mate..particularly with limited hand tools.....and rather you than me trying to make that Holtey mechanism for the lever cap!

I'm afraid I wasn't that brave when it came to that part of my project...and to be honest...without a CNC controlling the shape it's always going to be better to just put the bolts in...particularly since I didn't have the need to remove the cap to access the iron set.

When I looked at the plane shape last night before retiring...I had a flashback to something and I couldn't for the life of me think what it was but then this morning it came to me....

Most things have a shape that symbolizes the period they were made and this shape seems to me to come from the 1930s....like the old Charabanc buses...I think it's the way the curves flow and the back cuts off suddenly. I had the same feeling when I bought this Barron...






...which reminds me of the 30s speedboats you saw on Italian lakes and those speed record cars of the period.

Regarding the adjustment knob...I actually don't agree at all that it's too small...in fact..I would say it's too big...surely it would be more balanced to have a smaller adjustment knob than the lever cap?

Do you need a milling machine to turn the radius on the knob? I would say stick the shaft in the lathe and turn the radius...by hand if that's the way you are comfortable with?

The steps on the plane adjustment hammer I made were deliberate. It's a design I prefer actually...but that's just a preference.

Thanks for posting the beautiful WARD shots...I have a Sorby one almost the same...that is my favourite paring chisel but only because I don't have a WARD (yet).

As you say...you might want to start a new thread yourself on that alone...as hidden amongst this thread, you possibly won't get the answers you need regarding the age....and it creates a very interesting thread too! 

The Hand Tools forum can be a bit quiet of times and this is just the old tool stuff that sparks interest!

There have been a number of infill plane builds/restorations of late and if you have WIP shots of your plane build, I'm sure people starting out on this fascinating subject would be greatly helped by shots of how you did each bits....again...another thread would be superb!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Bedrock

Jimi

Thank you for your kind remarks.
Of course I don't really need a milling machine, but when has that been relevant! As my favourite mug says "he who dies with the most tools wins".
I am undecided as to the adjustment knob, in that it needs to sit in the palm of my hand for the lateral push, and ideally needs a more comfortable radius. If I radius this knob, it may make the knurled section a bit thin. It's all about the aesthetics, and I may play around with an alternative and see which I prefer.
Certainly I would do the radius by hand, but one of the reasons I keep banging on about hand turning, is that it is easy to cut all sorts of profiles without the complication of profile cutters on the metal lathe. You can change your mind part way through if it doesn't look right.
I didn't take any WIPs I am afraid as I wasn't aware of this forum when I started. I will bear it in mind however as I need to make a new handle for a file, and I have been using old brass plumbing fittings for ferrules, and have found that turning the handle on the w/w lathe, I leave a tight 12.5mm spigot for the ferrule fitting, then put the brass ferrule on, and hand machine in situ, so that instead of a parallel ferrule, I can turn a gentle hollow profile, narrowing to the business end.
Completely useless of course but I think it looks good.
I am not sure of the design inspiration for the plane. When I did it, I hadn't seen David Barron's elegant planes. With hindsight, I have decided it comes from my "Russian sleigh" period. I have Jim Kingshott's excellent book and like his mitre plane, which may have had some influence.

Regards Mike


----------



## jimi43

Sleigh...yup...I see that now!

Also I just realized in the picture of "Biggles" I posted above...that he's sitting on the burr oak infill stock before it was installed!

How weird! :mrgreen: 

Jim


----------



## yetloh

Mike,

Don't want to hijack Jim's thread but some thoughts on your adjuster knob. I'm inclined to agree with you about it because plane making should first and foremost be about function and if you reduce the diameter noticeably it will have a significant effect on the leverage you can get to drive the blade forward or pull it back under frictional load from the lever cap. This is a difficult balance, particularly on a small plane.  As regards the aesthetics generally, I like your plane a lot.

Jim


----------



## Bedrock

Jim
Thanks for your thoughts. I will play around with alternatives, and post again, if Jimi doesn't mind me hijacking his beautiful work.
Jimi
I too have a 1" wide paring chisel Sorby which is my "go to". I'll post pictures when I get home, on the Ward thread. Like the Ward, it's a beautiful piece of work, but getting shorter!
Let me know if you would prefer our plane discussions to go separate.
Deliberate error in comment about plumbing fittings - should have been 15mm.

Regards
Mike


----------



## jimi43

It doesn't bother me at all Mike...but it would be infinitely better for you on its own thread....as you have seen with the interest in the WARD thread.

Also...down the line...people looking to emulate your ideas will find it easily..not hidden in the depths of my ramblings! :mrgreen: 

Just a thought.

Jimi


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Jimi - a few posts ago I questioned the length of the screw on the cap, and you were going to shorten it. I've just seen the S&S planes on the Damascus steel thread, and they've been left three or four threads too long. To me it just looks careless - I can't see why it's done?


----------



## jimi43

phil.p":1mkbm5xj said:


> Jimi - a few posts ago I questioned the length of the screw on the cap, and you were going to shorten it. I've just seen the S&S planes on the Damascus steel thread, and they've been left three or four threads too long. To me it just looks careless - I can't see why it's done?



I think his doesn't look quite as obvious because he uses a larger diameter bolt...which in retrospect...I wish I had done. I'm going to cut it down to two threads above maximum tighten down...and see how it looks. At the extreme..I could bore out the hole and make a new knob if I think it looks wrong but you don't see most of it so we'll see. I see no mechanical reason for a larger diameter.

After a day off..(well real work!)...and having applied more Tru-Oil...I cut back the finish on the rear infill...(I have yet to do the handle and bun)...then satisfied that I can make the rear infill permanent...I bit the bullet and took the heads off the screws with the mill...the tape is there as an indicator to stop me going too far...






This being done as close as I dare...because any steel deep scratches would be a disaster....I set up the disc sander.

Now..before you all jump on the thread and say NOOOOO!!!! I didn't and don't intend to, switch it on. :shock: 






The setting up involved ensuring there was a new 80G disc on it and it was flat. Then I made sure the disc was at exact right angles to the Corian bed...

Then I simply pushed the plane back and forth...and the rotated it a bit and repeated.

The following picture shows the results...






As can be seen there is a tiny dip at the very rear...forget the middle for the moment because that pushes out a thou with the lever cap inserted.

Now I could carry on and take the lot down by hand but I think I will investigate the possibility of getting the entire flat face area surface ground at precise angles....

I think it is worth it.

I used to have a buddy in the next village who made bike parts and I will see if he's still around and has one of those very useful machines.

The area that was proud has the screw right down flush and it looks great...so I am well chuffed about that aspect of the job.

Now to do the other side!!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## jimi43

Just one before I hit the sack...better pictures in daylight...






That bun was a nightmare to cut back....each time takes a few hours going through the mesh range but we're there for the last time. :wink: 

Night all!

Jimi


----------



## Noggsy

Stunning!


----------



## jimi43

Thanks Noggsy!

Well...a rather traumatic incident happened today!

I had to leave the plane with someone else!!! :shock: 

After trying to find someone with a surface grinder who could clamp something as big as this plane AND look after it...I settled on Rydal Precision Engineering of Swanley.

A quick chat with Ian Hall from their superb workshop (which is HUGE by the way!)....and lusting over a partition at a rather nice Bridgeport mill....I was confident I had chosen wisely.

The downside is it could take a while...a week was quoted...an a fair few shekels to boot! But it's worth it both to finish this job off and get a perfectly brushed finish to the sides.

I feel like I am cheating but at least I know it will be perfect when finished.

It was really traumatic leaving him with someone else though...rather like leaving a child!! :mrgreen: 

Other news...Philly now has the other iron and will be hardening that in due course and once the plane comes back from surface finishing...the lever cap will go off to Ian at CHALCO for engraving.

It's all coming together nicely!

More in a few weeks (hopefully!)

Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

Sounds like its in safe hands.

Holy smoke Batman 2 tonne castings, no wonder its HUGE.


----------



## jimi43

Moving along a bit with the first plane adjustment hammer prototype...






This is the one I will be keeping...but there are a number of things I want to change in the next one...






The first will be a more tapered shaft which will be about 3/4 as thick at the head...this is quite chunky I think..and I need it a bit more stylish.






Secondly...I intend to try this hand turning of the brass as suggested by others...that should be a laugh!!






I am quite happy with the rather geometric profile though...it's more my taste.

Testing went well...it's very solid and adjusted the iron very well...






and the wedge tapped down firmly.

It weighs about 7 oz. which is just about right....






One thing I will have to look into is name stamping...






Stamping side grain burr oak is similar to smashing through a barn door with a marshmallow!! :mrgreen: 

I got there in the end but it's nowhere near as crisp as I would have liked....






...so...I will probably be scratching my head for a while about that one.






Watch out for version 2

Jimi


----------



## Noggsy

Looking good Jimi and I like the way the stamp looks. It somehow ages the handle to my eyes.

If it isn't too personal a question, what does the 'KT' stand for?


----------



## jimi43

Noggsy":17bta0pk said:


> Looking good Jimi and I like the way the stamp looks. It somehow ages the handle to my eyes.
> 
> If it isn't too personal a question, what does the 'KT' stand for?



My sister died prematurely aged 34.....and my nickname for her was Katie...

When I left the safe world of monthly pay and started a business on my own...I needed a company name and it just came to me....

She's keeping an eye on me....make sure I don't get into too much trouble! :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## Noggsy

Jimi, what a great answer, although I am sorry for your loss. Keep up the great work mate.


----------



## n0legs

jimi43":23gwf9fu said:


>



Gorgeous.


----------



## n0legs

Also gorgeous.

Thank you for your attention.
That is all.


----------



## jimi43

Hi Noggsy...no problem mate...she's looking after me!

Thanks n0legs...appreciated.

A little parcel arrived from Dorset this lunchtime....a little but heavy one containing the thicker of the two irons which went of to Philly for some hardening and a bit of grinding on his new machine.

WOW...is about all I can say really...WOW!






I'm not sure the exact RC...I'm sure Phil may chip in here...but it's HARD...up to the correct position and then perfectly ground with a very pleasing pattern.

The only two things I had to do was finish cleaning up the sides and put my own bevel on the tip....which I did as a flat bevel on the REXON watercooled thingy I got at a bootfair recently for a tenner.






This is a REALLY fine machine....so I really don't see how it got such a bad press...it was quick...clean(ish) and accurate...






I then refined the leading edge and curve of the cap iron...






....which locks down ALMOST flat as planned...






I will test this in situ when the plane comes back...hopefully fairly soon...and then we can put the whole plane through some rigorous testing which I am really looking forward to.

So that's another stage finished...and what a beautiful addition to this project....






I'm absolutely chuffed to bits with this iron...and once again huge thanks to Phil Edwards for his kindness in doing the bits I haven't the gear to do professionally.

Jimi


----------



## lanemaux

Serious bit of metal there amigo , a hats off to phill . Looking forward to seeing plane and thick iron united in wood peeling harmony amigo.My guess is that the "tiger" will be a fine tribute to all her parents.


----------



## Harbo

Excellent work - I'm well impressed

Rod


----------



## jimi43

Thank you gentlemen...much appreciated.

It's been a while since I last posted and those of you keeping track will remember that I had left the plane with a local engineering company for surface grinding.

Well...he's back!!!







Now I did ask that they took the grinding carefully and avoided water...for obvious reasons but owing to a slight cock-up in instructions between engineers...and one of the guys going off on site for a while...an oil/water coolant was used and this has affected the Tru-Oil on the front bun.

Not a major problem...I just spent tonight stripping it ALL back to bare wood again and even laid down the base coats tonight...but I'm disappointed as I didn't really want to go through all the finishing yet again. But it's a bit of a Catch-22 really.

In hindsight (for which I have 20/20 vision! :mrgreen: )....I would have had the sole surface ground before inserting the infills then when the sides were done...fit the infills and linish the sides. But there ya go...ho hum...

The good news....the sole is SUPERB!






...and the guy who did it was their top man...apparently it's flat to within microns across the entire sole!! :shock: 

The iron set hardened by Philly was inserted and check out this mouth...






So it might take me another few weeks to get the finish of the infills sorted out AGAIN...but I am sure this is going to be a glorious user!!

We shall see! :wink: 

More later as I redo the finish...but I promise...I won't be doing each stage this time...I will post the final pictures up when it's ready.

Jimi


----------



## rileytoolworks

wow, that looks stunning Jim.
Pity about the finish being spoiled, but if anyone can fix it, you can.
Is there a chip off the iron, or is it a trick of the light?

Can't wait til we next meet to see this beauty again.

Adam.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

It's the leaves in the background.


----------



## rileytoolworks

I mean the top corner...


----------



## Phil Pascoe

Yes - if you look carefully through the whole of the mouth opening, you can see the background.


----------



## rileytoolworks

phil.p":qznub0qw said:


> Yes - if you look carefully through the whole of the mouth opening, you can see the background.



Yep, I get that Phil, but look closely at the top corner of the iron. It looks like a chip.


----------



## jimi43

rileytoolworks":2wmmuhrp said:


> wow, that looks stunning Jim.
> Pity about the finish being spoiled, but if anyone can fix it, you can.
> Is there a chip off the iron, or is it a trick of the light?
> 
> Can't wait til we next meet to see this beauty again.
> 
> Adam.



Hi Adam...

Good eyesight!!

I was standing in front of it and I didn't even see it. 

It's really quite tiny...I must have done it when I was fitting the iron after getting it back because it wasn't there when I ground it (obviously!)....so I will just regrind that out...there's plenty left. :wink: 

I need to be a bit more careful next time! (homer) 

Having stripped the entire finish back to bare wood...on the bun only....I have so far managed four coats and the finish is coming back much quicker than the frist time around because the old finish is now acting as a sanding sealer.






Both of the infills have darkened considerably over the last few weeks as oak generally does...and I really prefer the darker look...but it's difficult to tell until I've done a few cut-back and lay down sessions...

I know...I know..I promised not to report on all that again...

I will be back when it's done...

AND..there's now chip on the iron.

I was hoping to test him out this weekend...that will now have to wait a bit longer!

Cheers...

Jimi


----------



## Phil Pascoe

rileytoolworks":3cccgv3m said:


> phil.p":3cccgv3m said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - if you look carefully through the whole of the mouth opening, you can see the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I get that Phil, but look closely at the top corner of the iron. It looks like a chip.
Click to expand...


Sorry, I stand corrected on that one.  My eyes are definitely getting worse.


----------



## jimi43

phil.p":2rqv9e28 said:


> rileytoolworks":2rqv9e28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> phil.p":2rqv9e28 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes - if you look carefully through the whole of the mouth opening, you can see the background.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, I get that Phil, but look closely at the top corner of the iron. It looks like a chip.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry, I stand corrected on that one.  My eyes are definitely getting worse.
Click to expand...


Phil mate...trust me...I sure wish you'd won this little debate!! :mrgreen: 

Not a major issue...I will probably round the corners off a touch anyway.


Jim


----------



## rileytoolworks

Sorry Jim. I wish it wasn't a chip.
I feel almost responsible now.  

It is truly a stunning tour de force mate, and I know Richard would have loved what you've done with it.
Thank you for sharing the journey.

Adam.


----------



## tobytools

Having seen this plane in real life today and meeting Jimi and can honestly say the pics (decent photos I may add) don't do it justic, the plane is 1000x better looking in the steel. 
Look forwards to a better look again tomorrow. 
Well done jim, stunning work. 

Thanks
TT


----------



## jimi43

Thank you guys and thank you for your tremendous support throughout this project..it has been fun.

Tomorrow I shall finish the "finish" so to speak and try to complete the whole thing within the week. Sadly..doing that Toby, means that we can't get to test it out together on some wood and make some shavings but I've no doubt there will be other opportunities again.

I'll take some more shots tomorrow during the daylight hours if the rain holds of.

Cheers again

Jimi (AND ALFIE!)


----------



## jimi43

Well...there does come a time when you have to say "enough!!" and that time is tonight.

It being dark...I was only able to do "kitchen" shots...maybe I will do some in daylight during this heat wave we are supposed to be getting...

After the soul-destroying damage to the finish following sole grinding...I really did not feel like starting all over again...but after all this time...I couldn't just leave it and so over the last week or so, I stripped the finish on the bun back to base and relaid coat after coat of Tru-Oil. 

As the rear infill was not too badly damaged...all I did was take the gloss down to clear finish and then did that a few times too. The handle (which stayed with me all the time) was not affected.

As I mentioned...Tru-Oil yellows to a beautiful golden colour over time and so at the moment there is a slight disparity in hue between front and rear but this should not be there for long... a few weeks and they will balance out. In actual fact...they did me a favour screwing up the bun finish as the remainder acted as a great base and so the top coats were far easier to refine.

So rather than bleat on and on about how the repair was done...I will just leave you with the final shots for now...testing shots maybe over the weekend...

Thanks to everyone who has helped me finish the plane that Richard started so beautifully...the support and particularly Philly and Pete who did bits I could not do.

There are some really nice people on this forum and your constant encouragement and ideas have are in every piece of this plane...every piece!









































It's been such a long but enjoyable journey...I do hope I have done justice to Richard's memory...

A tough act to follow that's for sure!

Jim


----------



## Zeddedhed

Jimi,
it's an absolutely stunning piece of work and you can be confident that you've done Richard proud.
I never met or knew the guy but I'm pretty sure that he'd be gobsmacked and delighted with the finished result - it's a beauty!!


----------



## rafezetter

Jimi

I've never had the pleasure of seeing or handling a plane by one of those exclusive makers (who's names I don't even know) but were I to pay the many thousands they cost, this collaborative plane of Richard and you, and the sublime quality it represents is what I would expect to unwrap.

I'm taking a leap here, but I don't think you've merely "done justice" to his memory, I think you've completed the foundation Richard forged to create a lasting legacy to show, as another has stated, that he had the skills to become an equal peer of those aforementioned exclusive makers, and who's talents on the infill side of things you have also emulated with consummate skill and care.

If ever a thing became more than the sum of it's parts, this plane has it - to paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson "I know this plane has soul".

I never met Richard, but I think he would be justly proud of the final result.


----------



## Mr_P

Sublime,

Only met Richard once and was lucky enough to hold one of his mitres. Such a dammed shame the world needs more people like Richard and a new generation of planemakers, Karl Holtey and Bill Carter aren't getting any younger. 

Seriously struggling to think of any more British infill makers .


----------



## AndyT

I agree with all of the above!

It started with Richard in his shed with his hacksaw and files, making a tool that was firmly in a tradition but also looking modern and individual. You've respected that with the beautiful straight lines and curves on the fantastic wood. You've done all the work in public, sharing your design thinking and demonstrating wonderful attention to details.

Even amongst your selection of extraordinary planes, I think this one is going to be that bit more special than the others and give you a good feeling (though tinged with sadness for Richard) every time you use it.


----------



## Noggsy

Superlatively superlative Jimi!

Now, how does it cut? :lol:


----------



## lanemaux

I've followed the post from one end to the other and waited impatiently for each update. Now that she is done I feel almost the the same glow as if _I_ had accomplished something. Superb result and fitting tribute. Bravo.


----------



## dickm

Superb isn't a strong enough word. For the sake of posterity, you must produce a history of the plane and its origins (maybe even a printout of this whole thread) that stays with the plane. That way, future generations can appreciate both Richard and yourself, as well as the whole tradition of British infill planemaking


----------



## Racers

Fabulous Jimmi

I will have to get my finger our and do the blade.

Pete


----------



## jimi43

I wasn't entirely sure how to reply to all the kind words I read above...so suffice to say...they are really appreciated and made it all worth the effort.

A couple of questions to answer...shavings...as soon as I get the iron razor sharp...and the glue has hardened in the handle joint.

I don't want to push it....wait...I DO want to push it...I don't want to break it! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Pete...take your time mate...I have this one to be going on with so whenever the need for fine burgers grabs you...and I do hear tell that next week is to be our last heat wave for this year so maybe this is an opportune moment? 8) 

Then there's the engraving...and I have asked my assistant to PDF all of this thread if she is able...not QUITE sure how that is going to work out but I can then stick that in a safe place and read it when I'm sitting in me bath chair on the porch! :mrgreen: 

More on the shavings later!

Jimi


----------



## Andy RV

Brilliant job!


----------



## MickCheese

Truly amazing.

You should be very proud.

Mick


----------



## Paul Chapman

Great job, Jimi 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Corneel

That's a mean bit of plane! Gorgeous, and I admire your tenacity in getting all the details just right.


----------



## jimi43

Again...many thanks for the comments guys...there are some old friends popping up here but some new ones too and I hope to meet you all some day.

Mick..the offer of coffee is still open to you as before if you are passing...we would love to say hi again.

Like most things with this plane, I have tried to get the best result from each component but at the end of the day...the bit that really matters to use this for its primary purpose...shaving wood... is the iron.

It was probably perfectly sharp enough to shave pretty well straight from Philly's hardening and surface grinding but obviously the grind marks on the face need to be taken out to give the one straight edge of two which make up the perfect edge.

Anyone considering buying one of Philly's replacement irons...or indeed, one of his excellent planes should look at the following images pretty closely...I think you will see why we all love his work!

Firstly...straight "out of the box"....







..wiped over the excellent Fallkniven coarse ceramic diamond stone...shows a very tiny dip at the end which is to be expected. When I say tiny we are talking microns here and the following pictures prove this.

I have often flattened irons on a whetstone with water and have had the iron "grab" the hone and stick to it so you can lift the stone....but NEVER on a dry diamond stone...






....and this is a very heavy stone so a good sign that things are as they should be.


After a few minutes most of the grind marks are gone and the following shots show how flat this face is....






....and close up....






So I think we can only call this perfection and I am hardly surprised at this as it came from one of the master planemakers of our generation...

Phil Edwards and Philly Planes!

I have to get to the edge and go a bit finer but the edge is already popping hairs on my arm which is now bald...so I'll leave with a huge vote of thanks to you Phil...you are the man!! 

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

Jimi


----------



## n0legs

Jimi it has been an absolute pleasure to watch and read the story of such a fantastic piece of craftsmanship, you should be very proud. 
I take my hat off to you sir =D> 
What's next ?


----------



## jimi43

n0legs":12m7dsb3 said:


> Jimi it has been an absolute pleasure to watch and read the story of such a fantastic piece of craftsmanship, you should be very proud.
> I take my hat off to you sir =D>
> What's next ?



Metal Engraving?? CLICK CLICK

And a medium mitre infill...probably about 4" long...box or rosewood infill...maybe next month.

And thanks for the kind words mate..I know you have been here since the start of the journey too!

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## n0legs

jimi43":3052opht said:


> Metal Engraving?? CLICK CLICK



Cheers Jimi


----------



## Mr_P

cough "shavings" cough "shavings" cough

Medium mitre, cooool I'm =P~ ing already 

but Mr P edantic 'ere isn't 4" a small mitre not a medium one ? :?


----------



## jimi43

Mr_P":37c3bp8y said:


> cough "shavings" cough "shavings" cough
> 
> Medium mitre, cooool I'm =P~ ing already
> 
> but Mr P edantic 'ere isn't 4" a small mitre not a medium one ? :?



I'm almost done with the iron and I'm going to see Douglas tomorrow with it and my camera...he gets first dibs at the inaugural shavings...

Got to share these jobs out haven't we!? 8) 

No doubt there will be a personal review after the visit.

Nearly there mate...! :wink: 

And "medium" I suppose depends on your viewpoint...it's bigger than a block and smaller than a smoother...specifications may change! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## swagman

Hi Jimi. I just placed an online order for the DC521 bench sharpening stone from Heinnie Haynes. Looking forward to giving it a test run. 

Stewie;


----------



## jimi43

It's a quality stone Stewie...well worth the outlay.

Ok....those of you who have been shouting "shavings" (yes you!)....today's the day.

I really could not bear the stress of doing the testing myself...and anyway...that would be biased...so I popped over to see our dear friend Douglas of this fine parish...and lumbered him with the job.

A carpet of shavings later we had loads of photos and a video to report back here.

Since I then had to rush to work (blinkin nuisance!)...I have yet to publish the photos to my webspace but I could post the video!

They do say a picture's worth a thousand words....but the swish of a finely tuned plane....

Richard Tomes Memorial Infill Plane...tu.be/DadrRcbgQhs]http://youtu.be/DadrRcbgQhs[/url]

....is PRICELESS!

Pictures to follow....

Thanks to Douglas for taking time out to test the plane and the loan of his "London Plane!" :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jim


----------



## AndyT

Wonderful!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## Mr_P

Many thanks, I feely truly honoured to be the 3rd person to watch this.

Douglas " I'm not interested in shavings"

How very dare he. 

Works just as well as it looks, INCREDIBLE.

Pat yourself on the back, very nice job indeed.

Edit:
London Plane with London Plane with a West Midlands Sole / Soul.


----------



## Mrs T

GORGEOUS!


----------



## Paul Chapman

8) 8) 8)


----------



## jimi43

West Midlands Soul...love that!

Magic!!

Mrs T....thank you so much.....

J


----------



## condeesteso

Yup, a right good plane that. Richard would be very happy it's got done this well. He'd be perplexed it took a while   ... but pleased.
Back of iron needs a bit more flatting/polishing yet so it will only get better, I did want to mod the handle/tote a little but Jim won't let me - 5 mins with one of Noel's rasps would have done it easy.
Very nicely done indeed Jim, a lasting credit to your and Richard's work.


----------



## Woodmonkey

That really is a work of art, hats off to you (and Richard). Have you kept a count of how many man hours went into making that?


----------



## jimi43

How many hours...good LORD...I have absolutely no idea...

I think if I were to sell it (which ain't gonna happen!)....I would need to sell it in the thousands just to make a minimum wage...

So lots really. I guess Richard probably spent a few hours knocking the dovetails together....with the skills that he had...after the first one I think he admitted it was pretty easy...but that was typical of Richard...a talented craftsman whose modesty was only topped by his wicked humour!

I don't know how many hours but I will say that every single one was great fun...but frightening as some of this was WAY out of my comfort zone...I'm quite lucky to have any hair left the amount of scratching it took! :mrgreen: 

Douglas...thanks for today mate...and just to let you into a little secret...the handle is deliberately that shape so you don't feel tempted to "borrow" it too often..... :mrgreen: :wink: 

Seriously though...you did me a huge favour today plus you know how to plane properly..unlike me!

So...to the many pictures and a bonus video at the end!!

One of the benefits of using Douglas' workshop is that it looks "proper" as that lady on the Vistaprint advert says...it looks like a real workshop unlike mine which looks like the set of Steptoe and Son!







So *anything* looks better on his fine bench amongst fine tools and someone actually working!

But what's the first thing the man does...he scribbles all over it! :shock: 






See...I told you he knew a thing or two about this planing lark! 8) 

But at least it gave me the opportunity to take an in situ shot of that fine bit of surface grinding which set me back an arm and a leg and more than a few sleepless nights!

So to the first shaving!!! (sound of trembling at this point from the cameraman!)






And so it was discovered that the set was a bit..."coarse"....






Veneer anyone!? :mrgreen: 

But like a baby's first hand print...I put that one in the bag to keep...like a proud father! :mrgreen: 

So a bit of "fine adjustment" was needed then...






...which also involved hitting the plane....






....a nervous moment! :shock: 

But with the consummate skill of a true master...Douglas soon had it spot on and then there was really no stopping him!






Not one piece of fine oak was safe now...






You kind of get addicted to that "whooshing" sound...and all of a sudden find yourself surrounded by shavings...

After a break with some excellent coffee...it was time for some really rather nice London Plane to feel the steel...






The goal was to produce one continuous shaving which seems to be the benchmark of plane testing.....






...which wasn't exactly an arduous task as EVERY shaving was like that...






....as can be seen by the pile around the bench!

But you have to keep producing the shavings to get the "perfect" one...ain't that right Douglas?

(or could it be that he was having fun!? :wink: )

...or was it just an opportunity to show off the rather superb apron...






I WANT ONE OF THESE! (note to wife...Christmas...birthdays...anniversaries...all due soon! 8) )

I did actually get to have a go finally...






...but a combination of the bench not being designed for midgets and the fact that the inertia of the first cut took me with it with the result that I did some serious injury to me crown jewels on that huge boss on the vise which is not meant for lefties either...meant that I decided to wait until I reached home and a sensible height bench!

In all seriousness...it was great fun and a MAJOR relief to me that the plane that Richard inspired and started in such a beautiful way really performed as I had hoped it would. I have to say there were a few happy expletives and I had a huge grin on my face as I left chez Douglas!

Oh yes...the bonus I mentioned....a FLYING shaving...just a snippet from another video I shot...really tickled me...

http://youtu.be/ym1G3-KpBW8

We simply have to have that in slow motion...with some music...

http://youtu.be/n6TrXd6-VfM

(note to self....sack the soundman when he comes back! :mrgreen: )

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Cheers

Jimi (and Douglas!)


----------



## lanemaux

I think that I might go that one step further mi amigo, quality paper wallet sized photos for all of the parents (Mrs. T included of course). Parental pride is sure as heck what I would feel . First shavings split as well , as who doesn't have an envelope for that first haircut. Heck , I'm thousands of klicks away and a bit choked up.


----------



## Philly

Lovely!!!


----------



## Racers

I knew it would work it's been made by very talented people.

Well done to everybody. 

Looks fantastic works fantastically. 

Pete


----------



## Noggsy

Outstanding work and the proof is in the pudding Jimi.


----------



## condeesteso

Great set of shots Jim. The plane does it all, I'm just yer average user as we all know.
The vid at the end is quite short but the Postman Pat theme was a good choice.
Sorry 'bout the bench - I have a new one planned soon, maybe a little lower? (No, not that low.)
Anyway, a grand plane. No again - a two-grand plane (and that's prob at min wage levels :wink: )


----------



## jimi43

Mike...you have been a great influence on some decisions I have made and the constant positive feedback is probably the largest help...thank you my colonial buddy!

Philly...well that iron is the engine mate. Stunning bit of hardening and grinding...RC62 (ish) is giving me a few blisters getting the face free of grind marks but a few more sessions and we will have a perfectly flat face to the edge and I think it will stay that way. As you say in your PMs...I could take it down a bit in the oven but I want to leave it like it is at the moment...try not to use it on too testing of knots...and if I happen to chip it...well..I'll have a rethink but for now...SUPERB! =D> 

And yes....I just LOVE 01 tool steel...it's classic!

Cheers Pete....and I am sending the lever cap off for engraving soon so no rush whatsoever on the burgers...lots of playing to do here as it is...again many thanks for your support and offer to sort the 4mm iron.

Noggsy...there were a few tense moments there for sure mate...but I did have a PLAN B! :mrgreen: 

Douglas....no need to sort a bench...I have one for midgets as you know...and I also know that your definition of average is not the generally held dictionary version...which is why I love your feedback...no sugar coating...the "Simon Cowell" of reviewers! (in the nicest possible way of course! :wink: )

And I'm hiding my Liogier rasps before you come over next time...just in case you understand! :mrgreen: 

The video editor has been given strict instructions to sack the sound guy and put his Java down and get on with the editing...we may have a better one soon but I was impressed with that little "money shot" in the original...it just had to be captured alone...or in pairs...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhZ0ZPJSiI4

What I call my "Double Your Money" shot!

"Cecil....CECIL...put that coffee down NOW and get back to the cutting room!!"

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


----------



## lanemaux

Domo arrigato sensei , Honoured by your friendship . Very much looking forward to your foray into engraving as well , fascinating subject with great picture potential.


----------



## rxh

Well done Jimi. 

I've enjoyed following this and I think it is a great encouragement and resource for other plane makers, as well as being a fine tribute to Richard T.

Please can you give us a summary of the plane's dimensions, blade angle, weight, materials, etc.? Quite possibly all this information can be found somewhere in this epic thread but it would be good to see it all in one place for reference.


----------



## jimi43

Ah yes...I learned three Japanese phrases one drunken night in the Falklands with a Japanese trawler captain whose radar I fixed....

He had a bottle of Johnny Walker Swing...especially for boats and we did rather hit that a bit hard...I am surprised I could still speak English afterwards let alone remember the Japanese phrases he taught me!

So thank you my friend...the feeling is mutual! I have also posted an update on the graver thread.

Yes..I can get all the specs and a summary together for the thread rxh if you think that will help.

Give me a little while and I'll put it all together.

Cheers

Jimi


----------



## richarnold

Congratulations Jimi =D> =D> =D> =D> .
I have loved every bit of this planes journey, But for me the crowning moment was to see it at the bench doing what it was born to do, and not to be sitting in some collectors cabinet. Richard is somewhere out there grinning from ear to ear.


----------



## jimi43

richarnold":2m0bwjq8 said:


> Congratulations Jimi =D> =D> =D> =D> .
> I have loved every bit of this planes journey, But for me the crowning moment was to see it at the bench doing what it was born to do, and not to be sitting in some collectors cabinet. Richard is somewhere out there grinning from ear to ear.



Oh yes Richard...this will be a user for sure...no sitting in a cabinet for this one I can assure you.

I do bring it in at night to fondle though! Is that ok? :mrgreen: 

(note to self...resist stroking the sole again! :shock: :mrgreen: )

Jim


----------



## swagman

Congrats Jimi. That is one sweet looking infill plane. A very fine tribute to Richard T.

He was a very talented craftsman . R.I.P. 

Stewie;


----------



## yetloh

Jim,

Just caught up. Looks superb. I agree that the video track is rubbish, except for one detail which comes over perfectly, and that is that delightful "swish" as a shaving is taken. Bravo!

One point you might want to think about for the benefit of those who, like me, did not latch on to your thread at the very beginning, is the possibility of adding a few words about the origins of this project, just to round things off.

What are you going to make next?

All best,

Jim


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Stewie...much appreciated mate.

Hi Jim....I did a shorter story which covers most of the steps...which you can find in my BLOG on THIS PAGE

I will get around to making a better quality video (sound wise) when I get a moment...there are quite a few out-takes like that one which I need to slow down. The video is HD so that should be easy enough. The wood on that ejecting shaving shot was actually oak by the way...amazing few frames!

I was making a stand for a telescope today out of some left over bubinga Douglas gave me so I had a chance to put it through its paces again and I thought something was wrong because it didn't seem to be cutting but then I looked down and there were all these thin shavings.

A combination of the weight and the sharpness of the iron made it cut as if nothing was happening. It's going to take a bit of getting used to but this modern infill design is another step up entirely. I can see why they are popular! I feel blessed indeed that Richard chose to give me the fantastic sole to infill...it's marvellous.

Jimi


----------



## Mrs T

Hi Jimi, just read your blog post - what a story! (Even though I've read all this thread, I was enthralled!)

I'm so pleased that what Richard began you have finished so magnificently, and I just know he'd be chuffed to bits too. You've done him proud.

Love, Emma


----------



## jimi43

Mrs T":1y2sjlui said:


> Hi Jimi, just read your blog post - what a story! (Even though I've read all this thread, I was enthralled!)
> 
> I'm so pleased that what Richard began you have finished so magnificently, and I just know he'd be chuffed to bits too. You've done him proud.
> 
> Love, Emma



Hi Emma

I'm thrilled that you like it...that means the most to me.

I have to say that it's fairly easy to build a decent house on superb foundations...it all kind of fits into place.

Some other things coming soon...I will update the blog and post here when it's all done.

Once I finish testing and tweaking...the lever cap will go off to Ian...looking forward to that bit too.

Take care my friend...hope you are keeping well.

Jimi


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## Harbo

Not wishing to decry any of your sterling efforts but I suppose you should try it out against a Norris A1 ( in good condition) to see the difference and to see where Richard's design improved things?

Rod


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## jimi43

Harbo":8yly2nm9 said:


> Not wishing to decry any of your sterling efforts but I suppose you should try it out against a Norris A1 ( in good condition) to see the difference and to see where Richard's design improved things?
> 
> Rod



Indeed....I think there will be opportunity to do this at the next gathering....I do know it is a heavyweight!

I was asked for specifications and here they are...

Weight: 8 lbs. 6 1/2 oz. (3.6 kg)
Length: 15 1/2 inches (394 mm)
Width: 3 inches (76 mm)
Height: 6 3/8 inches (160 mm)
Iron width 2 1/2 inches (66 mm)
Iron thickness: 3/16th inch (5 mm)
Iron type: Bevel-down double iron
Steel: 01 ground tool steel hardened to ~RC62
Primary Bevel: 25 degrees
Bed angle: 47.5 degrees


I don't know how this compares with an A1 panel from any stable...anyone know?

I do know an S&S 14 1/2" panel weighs in at 7 lb 15 ounces so it is longer and heavier but not by much.

Jimi

Jimi


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## rxh

Thanks for the data Jimi,

What is the blade angle?


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## jimi43

rxh":30c47j12 said:


> Thanks for the data Jimi,
> 
> What is the blade angle?



Ooops!

Yes...







I have amended the spec above mate..thanks for reminding me.

Jimi


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## Harbo

I have one but I'm not at home at the moment, will check it out when I can?






Rod


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## jimi43

Hi Rod

Excellent! Yes...it would make a nice comparison. When I started to do the infill following the receipt of the sole from Richard...I didn't think that I would need to do the metal bits so I had no preconceptions that when I finished it that it would come anywhere near to the performance of the iconic Norris so if it comes anywhere close...I should be chuffed to bits.

Some late news...and particularly for you Emma...I have just been told that Wiktor Kuc of WKFineTools.com in the USA has posted an article based on the story.

WK Fine Tools article

Wiktor asked that I took some studio shots for the article so those have been included at the beginning and the end of the article....






Having been a big fan of this website for quite a while now...I am thrilled about this as I hope you will be.

Jimi


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## AndyT

Nice one!

It's good to see you in such prestigious company - and well deserved.


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## Racers

Nice write up Jimi.

Pete


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## lanemaux

Well Jimi , lovely article mi amigo. Now it is in the favorites folder so I can show visiting friends with a simple click of the mouse. Most of them don't really "get' my tool porn obsesion , but they can appreciate beauty when they see it. Even so , they manage to look at me when we talk . Guess they can handle butt-ugly as well then. Or maybe they just come over to see the wife.


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## jimi43

Thank you my friends....much appreciated and the testing goes on....did you get anywhere Rod?

I flattened the face of the iron a little more today and polished up the edge on some Maas and MDF...wow...that stuff gets it sharp...I nearly cut myself in running my finger over it such was the difference.

So to try it out....starting easy with some soft tulipwood...just because I happened to have a nice piece handy...






It ate this stuff for breakfast...and the edge seems fairly even....






...if the shavings are anything to go by!






The sun came out again so I couldn't resist the standard shot...






...we get so few of these days this late in the year.

ALFIE found the shavings of particular interest...






...so I didn't even have to clear up afterwards!

I did actually try it on some mahogany to make my daughter a stand for the antique telescope she has somehow prised from my sweaty palms...and it coped very well with the opposing grain on a panel but sadly I didn't photograph those tests as I was in a bit of a rush to get it ready for her birthday....so we are stuck with just the tulipwood for today and later I will go up the difficulty chain to the top...

I'm holding off sending the lever cap and iron off for engraving for the moment as I am having so much fun...but that will be the next job!

Cheers

Jimi


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## Harbo

Sorry Jim, I'm back home now so will measure it up in the morning.

Rod


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## Harbo

Hope this helps?

Rod


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## jimi43

Harbo":10byshn3 said:


>



Weight: 8 lbs. 6 1/2 oz. (3.6 kg)
Length: 15 1/2 inches (394 mm)
Width: 3 inches (76 mm)
Height: 6 3/8 inches (160 mm)
Iron width 2 1/2 inches (66 mm)
Iron thickness: 3/16th inch (5 mm)
Iron type: Bevel-down double iron
Steel: 01 ground tool steel hardened to ~RC62
Primary Bevel: 25 degrees
Bed angle: 47.5 degrees

Just putting together so we can compare....

So "RichardT" is...an inch longer...12 oz heavier

Not far different in the grand scheme of things. Look forward to comparison tests in use. 

We shall have to have a party!! :ho2 

Thanks for taking the time mate....nice plane!!!

Jimi


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## Corneel

I thought Brittain went metric some time ago? (hammer) 

Just read your articel. Nice to have everything in one place and some beautifull pictures!


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## jimi43

Corneel":2td5pd67 said:


> I thought Brittain went metric some time ago? (hammer)
> 
> Just read your articel. Nice to have everything in one place and some beautifull pictures!



HA!!!

No...we just told Brussels we did...keep 'em quiet!! :mrgreen: 

I find it almost sacrilege to measure an old plane in metric units....forgive me...  

Thanks for the kind words on the article...it needs updating but it's what was needed...as nobody has the time to read 32 pages!

Cheers

Jimi


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## Harbo

It was built in Imperial days and sold as a 14 ½" hence the measurements.

The steel thickness I measured as 4mm as I couldn't be bothered trying to read in 1/32" 

The iron is marked Norris on the front and Sorby on the back - I'll measure the thickness tomorrow.

Rod


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## jimi43

Cheers Rod....appreciated.

Following the sacking of the sound man responsible for the last "test shaving" video...I thought I would sit down and try to understand the video software....boy is that type of programme weird! 

After about three days and quite a bit more head scratching...I suddenly had a :idea: moment...and this allowed me to produce a "slightly" more professional video...but more importantly...I worked out the slow motion bit...so...bearing in mind that I don't work for the BBC film production unit...I offer this little video bite...go easy on me guys....don't blink or you might miss the action shot!

AMAZING SHAVING

Thanks again to Douglas for providing the muscle power and the valuable wood!!

Jimi


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## Harbo

Excellent Jimi - what software did you use?

Sorry I forgot about the iron thickness - the weather has been so nice  - will try to remember today?

Rod


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## jimi43

Harbo":1f2d3l2c said:


> Excellent Jimi - what software did you use?
> 
> Sorry I forgot about the iron thickness - the weather has been so nice  - will try to remember today?
> 
> Rod



Hi Rod

Serif MoviePlus X5....which is an old version they sell off cheap...£20 if I recall...to test to get you to buy the full new version. It's simple (good for me!)...once you have that "eureka" moment!

Now I know how it works....I can tart up the others!

Certainly shows that amazing "wow" moment when you slow it down....and as Douglas says....it still needs "work" to the iron! :shock: 

More to come....

Jim


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## jimi43

Another update....Ian at CHALCO STAMP AND DIE has confirmed receipt of the lever cap, the 5mm iron and the cap iron and has already started the engraving.

So there should be an update on that soon too.

In the meantime...taking note of the various comments about the selection of lever cap bolts I bought and coming to the conclusion that the one I made was rubbish...I spent the day in the workshop making another set.

I think I have it right this time...







Flush...brass...slot...and countersunk....






I tinkered with this for a while....I guess practice does make perfect as it was a lot easier this time...

Now all I have to do is make another one. The most expensive bolts on the planet eh!?

What think you oh fellow conspirators? :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## lanemaux

Looking sweet from my angle Jimi. Did you "clock" that slot or was that happy chance? Also watched the vid and enjoyed the shaving shot. Mind you the wife was coming back from the kitchen and just shook her head as I played it again. So asked her how much time she spent in Skyrim this week. She just about started to answer and then just kept walking.


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## MickCheese

Beautiful screw Jim.

Mick


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## jimi43

Hi Mick!

Thanks mate! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

I didn't even fancy a cigarette after I'd made it though so I must have kicked the habit! LOL!

After you said that...I looked back and thought to myself, after my chuffedness had had a night to dissipate....I thought..."what the hell am I posting pictures of soddin' brass bolts for!?"

I will have to get out more...but commercial screws just ain't what they used to be in my day! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 



> ......So asked her how much time she spent in Skyrim this week. She just about started to answer and then just kept walking.



Worrying my friend...very worrying! Not so much that I fear I might be cited in a divorce...but more that I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I know it's been a while since you guys left European shores but WTF is a SKYRIM.....? It sounds like a very deviant satellite TV channel! :shock: 

Jim


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## lanemaux

Skyrim is a very addictive video game that my beloved plays each morning for about 3 hrs, Richard T once described it as going on holidays in Switzerland but with dragons. I think it appealed to him because you could do forge work there on your own forge and anvil. On any sort of divorce front , fear not amigo , tis our quirkiness that binds us. If I were anyways near *normal* she would have nothing to do with me as we both see normality as the boring bit of life.
P.S. Just remembered a talk Richard and I had about this very plane! He mentioned that the design was very Skyrim and if you look closely at the pic on first page of this thread you can see it. The metalwork looks very like the head of a dragon , small horns on head , nostril bumps. imagine a dragons skull but just the upper half , lovely.


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## Bedrock

Jim
I would appreciate if you could give an "order of play". Do you turn down the stem and shape the countersink, or run the die up to a square edge, then turn the countersink?
It is not quite clear from the photo, but have you created a small "waist" just under the countersinking?
I have tended to do this to allow the die to finish with a clean thread, or are you screwcutting on the lathe?
I have today bought "Screwthreading on the Lathe" but am somewhat anxious!

Pity the simple elegance of your bolts will be mostly hidden.
Mike


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## jimi43

Mike 1 (Canada)....ah! Ok...I trust your description...though Richard did say he designed the side as the Great Wave Off Kanagawa so I followed that lead and bookmatched the rear so that it was like a shark fin running through the water after the wave...






By bookmatching...I could get the grain in the wood to flow out from either side like a wake.

But I'll go with the dragon idea too....it certainly bites like one! :wink: 

Mike 2 (Bedrock)....

Funny you should say that because when I was doing the second bolt this afternoon I thought to myself...ok...it's only a bolt but I bet someone asks......etc! :mrgreen: 

So...I took some pictures...at some of the stages anyway. 

A round brass bar big enough to be slightly larger than the maximum size of the head was mounted in the chuck and then the diameter run down square...






When I got near the right diameter for the OD diameter of M5 thread I did just the end to test the caliper diameter...






I don't have a tacho on my lathe so was going to buy one from Axminster but they are silly money and they're only Hall Effect switches and a meter so I bought one for a push bike for a fiver from China...






....and the indicator matched my laser tacho exactly! I was very pleased! 8) 

I then ran the diameter all the way back to the end of the screw part...






I then moved the cutter to give the correct angle for the countersink taper...and cut the thread with a hand die stock...






Leaving a blank shoulder as you suggest.

The machine screw can then be cut off using a parting tool just proud of where the head will be to give me the opportunity to cut it down to the exact size by turning it around.

When mounting the thread I wound some wire around the threads and set it in the chuck so as not to damage the threads...as recommended by AndyT in his most excellent tip!

I then cut the slot by eyeballing the centre and using a junior hacksaw for a thin slot...finishing with a flat needle file and polishing on the lathe with abrasives.

I hope this helps...

Jimi


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## Harbo

Jimi - I know there's lots of ways to crack a nut but a slitting saw on your mill would have been a safer option to cut the slot? 

Rod


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## jimi43

Harbo":1oztu4gx said:


> Jimi - I know there's lots of ways to crack a nut but a slitting saw on your mill would have been a safer option to cut the slot?
> 
> Rod



You are most correct Rod...if I had one that is! :mrgreen: 

I have become pretty adept at "eyeballing" things since the start of this project...I would never have dreamed of attempting a lot of things before then! :wink: 

Jimi


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## Harbo

Are we talking slitting saws - they only cost a few pounds for the little ones?
Though you do need an arbor too.

I was thinking more of not knackering your lovely handiwork - junior hacksaws are notorious for not making clean starts - unless you do the Paul Sellers trick?

Rod


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## Bedrock

Jimi
Thanks for the clear explanation and photos. I have used a tail stock holder for the die, and cut the bolt shank overlength, then machined the extra so that the die engages lightly. The purpose is to ensure that the die starts off square and that if I then finish the screwcutting off the lathe, nothing starts to diverge from true. Perhaps a little OTT but early experience with screwcutting taught me a lesson.
When you can acheive the finish of the slot to this standard, hand work is so much more satisfying, and quicker, if that matters.
Mike


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## jimi43

Hi Mike

Yes..I have one of those...






...but I find that if you hold an ordinary die stock holder square by eye and then rotate the chuck..you can start correctly...after that..it cuts automatically square.

Sometimes I can't be bothered to get all that kit out to cut one little thread....lazy I know!  

Jimi


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## jimi43

Another anxious period is now over for hopefully the last time..the wait for engraving and twice trusting Her Majesty's Royal Mail..phew!!

So...the long awaited time to show the final pictures for this thread....

I asked Ian at CHALCO STAMP AND DIE to engrave the lever cap in Copperplate script as I love that style and I felt that it suited the period in which this style of plane would have been made.

I wanted to brand my irons so I asked him to machine engrave them in the same font Norris used...seemed suitable.

I didn't even have to ask him to do it straight either! (sorry...couldn't resist that one! :roll: )

Anyway...enough typing...the skill of that guy speaks for itself!































I am absolutely thrilled with the results...and more so now that I know it's finished...although I may tinker a bit more...

But it means I can now go out and use it on a number of projects I have in mind...for my daughter...and other things in the pipeline.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone involved in this project from start to finish...you know who you are and you are fantastic guys and girls. But most of all...I really have to thank Richard...

I still have his notes on other projects...so just maybe there will be a few more to come.

Thanks Richard....

Jimi


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## AndyT

Wow. That's wonderful.
I'm feeling equal proportions of sadness that Richard can't join in with us in celebration of such a splendid piece of work, and pleasure that you have taken such care and skill to produce such a superb object.
Really one of a kind!


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## Harbo

Excellent work - keep it safe.

Rod


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## toolsntat

Thank you =D> 

Andy


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## Mr_P

Takes a lot to impress this jaded, cynical ex-machine engraver but this really is something extra special.

Pat yourself on the back you have done yourself and Richard very proud.


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## MickCheese

Jim

That is amazing, you should be really proud of your achievement. I love it. =D> 

I can just see it in a few hundred year, a forum discussion about the plane made by Jimi Hendricks and how he also played the guitar.  Then other chiming in with, That's rubbish my book doesn't say anything about woodworking. :roll: 

Mick


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## Paul Chapman

Looks lovely, Jimi 8) 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Bedrock

Jimi
A seriously beautiful piece of work, and an inspiration. The copperplate is the same as on Thomas Tompion clocks. That's a benchmark!

Thank you for sharing your journey.
Mike


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## dickm

Speechless with admiration - a wonderful job.


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## lanemaux

From every angle it is just beautiful.


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## Racers

That's the icing on the cake Jimi, it would win bake-off!

Pete


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## n0legs

Excellent craftsmanship by all concerned. 
The engraving is perfect, it doesn't need to say anymore.
Perfect Jimi, just perfect.


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## tobytools

beautiful mate, job very well done 

cheers
TT


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## No skills

Work of art. Richard would be smiling, and also planning the next one  

Well done.


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## HarryJ

Exceptional Jimi, truly exceptional =D>


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