# Tablesaw turntable



## WellsWood (19 Oct 2009)

As mentioned elsewhere, I've been meaning to post this for absolutely ages, so here it is finally.


I'm not alone in having a tablesaw that is probably a bit too large for my workshop, but I wouldn't be without it for the world. Its a scheppach TS2500 with the fold down extension table and a sliding table with a 1400mm rail, so it's great for crosscutting panels as well as ripping up to about 1100mm between blade and fence. The problem as always is where to site it. If I arrange it for using the sliding table my outfeed length is limited to about 1200, and if I have it the other way round for ripping out over the assembly table I can't practically use the sliding table because it and the croscutting fence block my passage to the infeed side.

I have one spot where it will do both but only if I turn it through 90° between operations, and in the beginning I used the built in wheels to accomplish this which involves an awkward rigmarole of tipping the saw about 30° to engage the 2 wheels, turning it round, and tipping the other way to release the wheels and set it back on its feet. It worked OK but took too long, and more than once I slipped and put the thing down on my toe - it weighs 85Kgs, light compared to todays cast iron offerings, but it still smarts.

My problems didn't end there though. My floor is seriously out of level, about 20mm difference across the diagonal of the base, which makes moving it like this a PITA because I use my assembly table as the out feed on ripping, and because I absolutely hate wonky machines. Every time I moved it I had to level it with shims - more work. Also the thing seemed to go out of whack every time I lifted it up onto the wheels and was spending an inordinate amount of time resetting the sliding table in particular.

It didn't take long to come up with the answer, but it did take me a while to get round to it (as most things do :roll: ), What I needed was a turntable which I could level and then plonk the saw on top. That way all I'd ever need to do to change from one operation to another is to swivel it to the correct orientation. A sheet of 25mm MR MDF, a big bag of ½" ball bearings and a few happy hours with a router and trammel......








et voila!






I used a homemade trammel to cut the circles from the sheet, and the same arrangement with a ½"core box cutter to make grooves with identical radii in each piece. Filled the grooves with the ball bearings, drilled throught the pivot point I'd used for the trammel to take an M10 bolt as an axle, and slapped the other piece with the identical grooves on top. Simples.

The saw is prevented from sliding around with "L" shaped bits of MDF screwed in place, and locking the position is achieved with a bit of 8mm rod and some strategically placed holes.





It takes a matter of seconds to go from this,





to this,





No backache, no bruised toes, and no resetting of anything after I've put it down a bit too hard.

Thanks for looking.


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## Ian (19 Oct 2009)

Excellent idea!

Maybe you should market it for small shops.

Cheers

Ian


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## Chris Knight (19 Oct 2009)

What a great idea! I like it’s a lot and might use it myself  

It would be even better if it were to incorporate a way of moving the turntable around the shop - mine is reasonably level so I don't have exactly the same problem as you.

The problem is that the addition of casters would seem likely to raise the saw too high - needs some thought...


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## Karl (19 Oct 2009)

Excellent.

My table saw is on an MDF base unit with castors so that it can be swivelled round fairly easily. But your solution is much tricker !

If I ever get a bigger workshop I will be employing that solution to the problem.

Cheers

Karl


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## wizer (19 Oct 2009)

I've seen it in action many times and it's probably the best workshop 'solution' I've ever seen. It's so simple.

I think fitting wheels might defeat the point somewhat. It works best in a static environment where you just need to flip between crosscut and ripping. 

Mark's workshop is full of these little innovations. He should write a book!


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## OPJ (19 Oct 2009)

I really like this idea, Mark. Good thinking! :wink:

Even for those of us without table saws, this could still be used with medium-large bandsaws, I think, which, because of their height, are awkward to move at the best of times. 

If what Tom says is true then, come on, let's see some more of your innovations!! :twisted: :wink:


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## WellsWood (19 Oct 2009)

waterhead37":34r9alzl said:


> What a great idea! I like it’s a lot and might use it myself
> 
> It would be even better if it were to incorporate a way of moving the turntable around the shop - mine is reasonably level so I don't have exactly the same problem as you.
> 
> The problem is that the addition of casters would seem likely to raise the saw too high - needs some thought...



Thanks Chris. I've racked my brains considerably on this to no avail, as very occasionally I would like to move the saw over to one side (when I need the space for bike servicing etc.). If I put castors on the turntable it would defeat it's purpose, as I'd immediately be back to square one with regard to the levelling issue - even a few inches of lateral movement throws it all out. You're right about the height too, it's already over 50mm higher than standard, any more would be too much for comfort. I reckon this is about as good as I'm going to get.


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## Tom K (19 Oct 2009)

Simples, some rubber around the base hook up a small fan and RYMB a hover saw. :lol: Glide it anywhere in the shop. Not as entirely far fetched as some would think saw something like it on a medical program for transferring lumps from gurney to operating table.


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## WellsWood (19 Oct 2009)

Tom K":14bxohdm said:


> Simples, some rubber around the base hook up a small fan and RYMB a hover saw. :lol: Glide it anywhere in the shop. Not as entirely far fetched as some would think saw something like it on a medical program for transferring lumps from gurney to operating table.



I'd like to say I hadn't considerd that, but sadly I did. With regard to moving the saw sideways I've also considered mounting the turntable on rails dug into the floor - but that would be going too far :roll:


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## wizer (19 Oct 2009)

Mark and I have never took turns to sit on it and spin round.... honest :roll: :wink:


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## WellsWood (19 Oct 2009)

speak for your self....:lol:


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## matt (19 Oct 2009)

wizer":9eq3e4ap said:


> Mark and I have never took turns to sit on it and spin round.... honest :roll: :wink:



Does it come with an optional locating peg to stop the g-force hurling you off?


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## BMac (19 Oct 2009)

Mark,

That was well worth waiting for! Thanks for showing this because it is a really ingenious solution to a common problem.

Brilliant!

Brendan


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## NewtoWood (19 Oct 2009)

Mark,

Brilliant idea. Simple to understand and use. =D>


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## dennyom (28 Oct 2009)

Hi Everyone,

The turn table is a great idea for solving the problem.



> Simples, some rubber around the base hook up a small fan and RYMB a hover saw. Glide it anywhere in the shop. Not as entirely far fetched as some would think saw something like it on a medical program for transferring lumps from gurney to operating table.



I have thought of doing this for my tablesaw and jointer. Perhaps using my air compressor for the air supply. Small channels would be routed into 1/2 or 3/4 mdf for the sub base to distribute the air evenly all around. This could capped by plywood to take the weight of the machine. Has anyone tried this?

Dennis


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## head clansman (31 Oct 2009)

hi 

every now and then we get to see good ideas that are way above the drudge of the day , but this one gos right to the top, well done , it's so simple but brilliant a hugh time saver and with so little effort, at the very least you should manufacture the idea . hc 8) 8) 8)


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## head clansman (1 Nov 2009)

hi 

just out of interest how many 1/2" ball bearings wear used roughly .hc


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## WellsWood (1 Nov 2009)

Thanks for the kind comments HC.

To be honest I can't remember how many BBs. I seem to think I bought 250 (I have a bag of about 20 or so left over). There are 2 bearing runs, one just inside and one just outside of the feet to spread the load and stop any tendency for the top plate to sag over time. I've had no issues in the 2 years or so since I built it so the theory seems to be sound.

I originally looked around to buy something like a very large lazy susan, but there was nothing I could find that fell in between the table-top variety and huge industrial units (at huge industrial prices).

I must say I'm surprised, given how often the space v. tablesaw issue comes up, that I'm the only one to have done this - I'm glad I did though, it transformed the ease with which I can use my tablesaw in a limited sapce.


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## head clansman (1 Nov 2009)

hi mark 

yep i was thinking along those line , to be placed either side of the feet to spread the load , once i got my new sip 01332 due to arrive 3rd week in november then i can get some accurate measurement i can work out how many ball bearing i will need , doing this will solve several problems space wise when machine is not in use , and it will increase my assemble area as well hmm good .   :wink: . hc


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## WellsWood (1 Nov 2009)

Nice one Martin, glad this has been of some use. Watch out for ball bearing prices, i paid around £12 per 100 from memory (whole thing came in around 50 squids), some of the prices I was getting from e-bay and online retailers were scary - one of the reasons I put it off for so long.

I'll look forward to seeing your efforts.


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## head clansman (3 Nov 2009)

hi mark 


ordered 25 mm mdf today £17.50 for turn table arrives tomorrow afternoon , ordered 300 12.7 ball bearing yesterday on e bay just under £19 awaiting delivery hope they don't get held up in post strike. hc


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## WellsWood (3 Nov 2009)

head clansman":ce3xnjug said:


> hi mark
> 
> 
> ordered 25 mm mdf today £17.50



Wow that's cheap, must be standard MDF (?) or you've got a much cheaper source than me. I used moisture resisant for mine as I figured it's extra hardness would take the strain better.


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## head clansman (4 Nov 2009)

hi mark 

It's standard mdf , as my shed it bone dry, so not really worried about moisture , & 'i'm going to cut a third 18mm circle same dia to form the plinth underneath, the plinth being same size circle should remove any possible sag, the plinth will be leveled and secured first , then the first layer of the turntable screwed direct to that before assembly ,also thinking of having several locking points so it can be locked a a set degree for when i,m ripping long materials towards the door of workshop . mark is it possible to post a closer look at your locking point please . hc


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## OPJ (4 Nov 2009)

Even still, I think that's cheap for 25mm MDF!! :shock:

Who was your supplier?


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## head clansman (4 Nov 2009)

hi olly 


It was from G R B S Granby Roofing and Building Supplies here on the trading estate in weymouth . hc

ps um maybe i should say + 15% vat


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## head clansman (4 Nov 2009)

hI 

It's just arrived ,ooohh I forgotten just how heavy that 25mm MDF really is .hc


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## WellsWood (5 Nov 2009)

head clansman":3ud1483n said:


> hI
> 
> It's just arrived ,ooohh I forgotten just how heavy that 25mm MDF really is .hc



LOL - yes I had to get mine cut in half so I could shift it - MR is a bit heavier still I think, a real back-breaker even then.
I'll put the pics uplater this morning, but there's not much to see - just a hole drilled through both layers with an 8mm diameter rod stuck through. I drilled the holes after assembly for ease of alignment, so had to make sure the positions of the bearing runs were marked on the outer face as well so as not to hit them when drilling. Simple and not very elegant (I'm sure something foot operated could be rigged up without too much touble) but it works well enough.


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## WellsWood (5 Nov 2009)

As requested Martin here's the close-ups.

The pencil line indicates a point half way between the 2 bearing runs. I can drill new locking points anywhere along this line in safety.






The "lock" is an old 8mm bolt I found in the scraps bin (I hardly ever throw stuff like this away, I have a feeling it was once one of the transit bolts from our last washing machine). I cut off the head and tidied up on the grinder and added a knob on the threaded end, but the bolt in its original state would have done just as good a job.





I have a few optional locking points, just as you plan to. It's really handy sometimes to turn just enough to wring a couple more inches of outfeeed length. When I drill a new point I just extend the index mark down oto the lower section.


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## head clansman (5 Nov 2009)

hi mark 


tis as i thought , i wasn't sure from the original pics if it was a marked on ink indicator or something you had let into the mdf surface , thanks for that , just waiting now for the ball bearing , oh and of course the new saw , but today had an email from suppliers, confirmed date is now not till 2nd dec  .hc


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## wizer (5 Nov 2009)

It's not being delivered by the Royal London Hospital is it Martin?


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## head clansman (5 Nov 2009)

hi tom 

it's either that , or a slow boat from china. hc :wink:


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## dellpitch (27 Nov 2009)

Hi

I have just picked up on this thread & you have solved a problem for me, many thanks. It really is simple but effective.

Can you please let me have some details of your dust extraction system.

Is it 50mm waste pipe? & what is the dust extractor.

Any help would be really appreciated.

Regards

Norman


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## head clansman (2 Dec 2009)

hi norman


my dust extraction system is 110mm white pvc down water pipe and 50 mm waste water pipe combined with some home made 50mm blast gates and some larger 100mm bought plastic blast gates the extractor came from yandles it a record dx5000 twin motor work fine .

i designed my system so i could either use to 50mm or the 100mm separately from each other 50mm for light dust etc and 100mm for the saw and planer + bandsaw both system work independent of each other just by shutting one blast gate and both work fine . hope this is of some help to you . hc


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## head clansman (18 Feb 2010)

hi WellsWood

I started my turntable two days ago and just finished it earlier today , " wow" that 1" MDF is bloody heavy to lugg about but it was well worth the effort, I can turn the saw with just one push of the finger and it glides round excellent .

Mark I just wanted to say thank you for posting this thread , it make life a lot easier now in the workshop . So tomorrow, connect up the dust extraction to the saw then that will be all finished as well . Now what's next ah yes tool cabinet and infill planes . hc


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## wizer (18 Feb 2010)

Well done Martin. Pics please :roll: :wink:


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## head clansman (18 Feb 2010)

hi tom

ok sometime tomorrow although i haven't got that many pics maybe just enough to show how i cut the circles out on the band saw and the the jig i made up to routed out the gooves to take the ball bearing but i haven't got any pics of the grooves , its all assembled with the saw sat on it and believe me i ain't lifting that off again ooh it was a struggle with two of us to lift it off the floor . But hopefully it should be enough for you to get the general idea . .hc


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## WellsWood (18 Feb 2010)

Excellent Martin, so glad this has been of use to someone. Looking forward to the pics.

I'm surprised you cut the circles on the bandsaw, I did mine with a straight cutter in the router and the trammel that was later used for the bearing grooves. All done off the common centre point to keep it all nicely concentric - it also minimised the lifting, yep that 1" stuff weighs a bloody ton - getting the finished thing onto the floor off the bench was a little nerve racking, I certainly kept me toes out of the way 8-[


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## head clansman (21 Feb 2010)

Hi all 

ok here goes , basically as you know it all made from 25mm MDF , first rip the sheet in equal half across it’s width this gives you two pieces roughly 1.2m square turn one end over by folding end – end length ways and square up and line up the two machined cut edge’s . 

First measure in 600mm from left hand machine edge along the front edge & repeat along top edge and mark a pencil line , now repeat 600mm up the left & right hand sides and mark a line , you have now divided the sheet into four 600 mm squares . This is then giving you the common centre point where the lines cross each other.

Next measure the foot print of the base of your saw. mine was 540mm across the front * 680mm in depth if my memory is correct , (adjust measurements for your own saw size), so now half these measurements , starting from your vertical centre line at the common centre point where the lines cross mark up 340mm and down 340mm and on the horizontal line mark 270 mm in both direction from the centre line , when line are drawn in, this is gave me the footprint size of my saw . 

On my saw I have four feet 100mm Square * 30mm wide (L shaped) if you have something similar draw these onto the board as well (it’s important later) ok once you done that you need a large compass, or a set of trammels, measure about 25mm inside the inner edge of the four feet by about 25mm set trammels or compass and draw your first circle this is the first groove for your ball bearings now do the same about 60mm outside the corner of the feet and mark the second circle (second groove for ball bearings) , this now places your saw directly between the two grooves which will displace the weight evenly between the two ball bearing runs , right now strike you outer finish circumference from centre common point - to the left hand edge of the 1.2m square sheet and mark the circle , It’s important to do this I cut mine circumference on the band saw , it’s so simple, honest.

Ok so far. 

Now whilst both sheets are still together depending on what size dowel rod you have drill a hole of same diameter through both the sheets at the common centre point , this hole will first be used as the centre swivel point whilst cutting the out diameter on the band saw and whilst routing out your grooves for the ball bearings also now whilst the new circular base is still at the band saw remove the surplus off cuts from around it , (cut one sheet at a time NOT both together as they are much to heavy to handle for safety reason) when both circles have been cut the centre common point will need to be drilled larger 12.7 ish or there a bout’s to accommodate the bolt to bolt the two section together which you’ll need to chop the hexagon head flush into the underside surface before the lower circle is secured to workshop floor first before final assemble . 

MAKING THE JIGS TO CUT THE CIRCLES 

1ST JIG 

You’ll only need scrape timber don’t use any thing expensive. Find something wide enough to balance a half sheet of 25mm MDF on it only need to be about 300mm. I think at this time I let the picture explain how it’s done quite simple really. Jig clamped to bandsaw. Photo showing centre swivel pin. That’s your first jig done.







CUTTING THE CIRCLE 

Ok, all I can show you here because I didn’t take any photos of the circle being cut but what I can show is the waste material left in position which I think you’ll get the idea how it is done , with the half sheet in position with the end of sheet resting against the band saw blade and the centre common swivel dowel through the hole you previously drilled in your half sheet of MDF when machine is running just feed the sheet through your hands from right hand to left hand with a steady flow of movement your band saw will cope with the full circle easily , I used a ¾” blade with no problems at all , there as I said simple, any way a photo. 

Please bear in mind this photo was taken as a mock up for this post only normally the blade height would not be set that high up when in use. Now repeat again for second circle.






2nd JIG.

Ok again just scrape wood In this case I used hardboard only because that’s all I had. 

Remember this Photo is also a mock up for this thread only. Here I’m sorry you have to use your imagination that the circle of MDF is there the swivel dowel is in the inner hole to cut the inside groove for the ball bearings , the other hole you see if for the second groove for the ball bearing. Once you cut the two grooves into both circle your now ready to start assemble, (but don’t forget to enlarge the centre common hole to take your centre bolt and also cut the hexagon bolt head into the underside of the bottom circle), do that and then secure bottom circle to the workshop floor (hope your floor is level) if not you know what to do .






BALL BEARINGS
Ok so now the bottom circle is secured to the floor , I used 12.7mm ball bearing with the grooves cut to about 5.5mm in depth on both circles this left a space between the two surfaces of about nearly 2mm ( now you need a 2mm washer slip it over the centre bolt roll all ball bearing into the grooves, I bought 250 in all which to be honest wasn’t quite enough, so buy about 300 in all this should leave just a few over , but don’t do what happened to me when opening the box the inner plastic bag split open and yep all over the workshop floor, oh pipper it took hour finding them all , What joy. Now slip on the top circle and the set of grooves will mate up with the ball bearing and gentle tighten down the centre bolt , there you go it’s ready to lift and position your saw to it .

This shows the legs of saw sat between the two ball bearing grooves 






finally the turntable still not yet finished or secure more to follow as soon as possible . 






hc


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## WellsWood (21 Feb 2010)

Great stuff, Martin. =D> =D> 

Couldn't have done a better job myself :wink:


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## head clansman (28 Feb 2010)

hi guys 

nearly there , been a bit brighter today so managed some time in the workshop working on the turntable . One of the reasons it's taken some time to finish is now it's mounted on the turntable is when i turn the saw i wanted the extraction to turn with it which it now doe's only a few minor things to finish to get it completed , things like a couple of fittings to reduce down from one pipe size to another size on the extraction as shown in pics , i order a couple of roller ball bearings as well , oh and apply a second coat of wax to the machine beds as well .

this pic show saw in its normal position facing across the workshop with over head extraction 






Pic show saw turned about 40 degrees to the right so if i want to cut long length of timber open the workshop door and feed timber out through the opening.






this one is when it's turned 90 degrees to the left placing it now length ways down the shop so I can eventually use it as a gross cut saw, & router station, but that's another thread later.






this pic shows missing connection and the arm that supports the the over head extraction piping which is screwed to the turntable, directly under the stanchion poll I fixed an old chair caster (temp) two new roller balls bearings were ordered today to go under there so when turned it just swing round with the saw .






this one showing electric's, plugged at both end, so i can disconnect which ever end i like and it move round with the turntable .






last pic showing locking devise just an old bolt i had lying around placed in a drilled hole right through into the floor below pull out swing the saw where you want it redrill hole place bolt into and it's safely locks into position .






still a little more to come so stay tuned . :wink:


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