# Freud/Casals FT2000VCE router BRAND NEW on ebay!



## Alf Beharie (9 May 2015)

I have a old Freud FT2000VCE 1/2" router I bought many years ago and in my opinion its still one of the best routers ever made. Its hardly been used in all those years, being stored safely in in its case in my garage all the while.
I got it out to fit it onto my new Trend CR3 router table and I want to keep it fitted to it permanently which means I need a second 1/2" router to go with my recently purchased Trend Mortice & Tenon jig. 
The problem is they stopped making Freud FT2000's years ago so I had to look at more modern alternatives. 
After researching the best available alternatives, only the Trend T11 seems to come anywhere near close to my old Freud for versatility. 
The Trend T11 is exactly the same router as the Dewalt DW625E, but it comes in black, rather than yellow like the Dewalt, and it comes with a 'wind down' knob like my Freud, but one that looks more like a clumsy afterthought compared to the well designed Freud version...Its an optional extra on the Dewalt.
The Freud also has a greater speed range than the T11 and DW625 too, another feature I would sorely miss.
The Dewalt is £100 cheaper new than its Trend twin (about £250 vs about £350) and there are a lot more used DW625's about on ebay at cheap prices, so I was resolved at getting a used Dewalt and buying the optional wind down handle...
That is, until I spotted a 'buy it now' ad on ebay for a "Casals FT2000VCE" which is exactly the same as my old Freud.
It was described as brand new old stock, which effectively means its still in brand new condition! It came in a carry case, with the fence, dust extraction outlet, spanner, 1/4" reducer collet, and instructions for just £125, with free postage! Not surprisingly, I immediately bought it!


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## blackrodd (10 May 2015)

I found this link, and posted it so others can see too!
Regards Rodders

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/53648/ ... 00vce.html


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## Eric The Viking (10 May 2015)

The T11 isn't quite the same as the DW625E. The direct equivalent is the T10. 

The T11 is designed for router tables, with handheld use being the secondary application. The T10 (and 625E) are t'other way round

The T10-T11 differences are that the T11 has a considerably larger baseplate aperture (to take bigger cutters and make cutter changing easier in a table), and a hex head recessed in the baseplate to turn the leadscrew, so you can do height adjustment through the table top and it doesn't need a router lift of any sort. Pretty much everything else is identical though.

The T10/DW625 are both derivatives of the Elu MOF 177, and were also made in orange for CMT at one point (can't remember the model no.). 

I think only Trend have sold the T11 variant though - never seen one under a different badge, but they may exist.

On the Freud: I really like the idea of the dust boots over the columns. My small Bosch routers are plagued by the plunge jamming up, mainly because of sawdust.

E.

PS: On the T11, If you take off the depth indicator used when handheld (no tools needed IIRC), you can raise the collet enough to do cutter changes above the table top without any fuss.


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## Alf Beharie (12 May 2015)

It arrived today and sadly it isn't exactly as advertised! They did a good job cleaning up the router itself but they left tell tale traces of wood dust in the dust extraction port thingy and there are a few minor marks here and there, so its obviously not brand new...Its been used! 
Still, can't really grumble as it works ok.
One thing that surprised me was the three collets it came with...two, which at first I thought were 1/2" and an 8mm...The former turned out to be a pair of 12mm collets...12mm and 8mm are Euro sizes, commonly in use in continental Europe but not here in the UK, which meant I would need to obtain a 1/2" collet for it or I wouldn't be able to use any of my 1/2" shank router bits with it...Having both of the latter collet sizes is a bonus though as I can now use pretty much any router bit I come across. 
I headed to D&M Tools to see if they had a 1/2" collet that would fit the Freud/Casals FT2000VCE. 
One of the salesman informed me that Freud was taken over by Bosch. So asked if a Bosch collet would fit...Oddly , he said it wouldn't!
But it turns out that collets for the Dewalt DW625E are a perfect fit! 
So I bought a Dewalt 1/2" collet with the part No. 328358-10 (07-05) -1, which cost £26.99 inc. VAT, and now its all working perfectly.


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## RogerP (12 May 2015)

I'm glad you're sorted and happy BUT you should still contact the seller and ask why he's advertising stuff as being new when if fact it's not. They may cough up for that extra collet you had to buy. Worth a try and you've nothing to lose.


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## TimothyClaypole (12 May 2015)

They've a FREUD FT 1000 E listed as brand new and you can see the dust and rust on it in the picture.

You get asked when listing items as new etc. 

It should be new (other), misleading.


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## doctor Bob (12 May 2015)

I bought about 5 x Freud 2000's when they were end of stock, they are all now kaput, they are not on a par with Dewalt or trend, good but not that good.


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## mseries (13 May 2015)

interesting to know about the DeWalt collet, I have been wondering if a collet for a DW625 will fit my Trend T10 as the DW ones are much cheaper than Trend ones


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## Alf Beharie (13 May 2015)

doctor Bob":2t0stfif said:


> I bought about 5 x Freud 2000's when they were end of stock, they are all now kaput, they are not on a par with Dewalt or trend, good but not that good.



Is it possible you simply put them through a lot more work than your Dewalt or Trend routers? 
According to the operating instruction book that came with the Casal FT2000VCE: "The machine is fitted with self-disconnecting brushes which when worn out stop the machine"...Perhaps you have simply worn out their brushes? A new set of brushes for them is £7 with free postage, on ebay...I've just bought 2 sets just in case. If it is just the brushes that have worn out then you could have saved yourself a fortune and simply bought some new ones!
You can send them to me if you like!


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## doctor Bob (13 May 2015)

Alf Beharie":2j5i8y0a said:


> Is it possible you simply put them through a lot more work than your Dewalt or Trend routers?
> According to the operating instruction book that came with the Casal FT2000VCE: "The machine is fitted with self-disconnecting brushes which when worn out stop the machine"...Perhaps you have simply worn out their brushes? A new set of brushes for them is £7 with free postage, on ebay...I've just bought 2 sets just in case. If it is just the brushes that have worn out then you could have saved yourself a fortune and simply bought some new ones!
> You can send them to me if you like!



No they just didn't hold up to full on work. I have a commercial business and broken stuff gets sent away to be repaired, these always came back as not worth repairing, they cost me £100 each as end of line stock, well worth the money but I still have all my dewalt and trend ones.


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## Myfordman (13 May 2015)

"The machine is fitted with self-disconnecting brushes which when worn out stop the machine"

What a total load of bull! Talk about trying to make a feature out of nothing. All brush motors will stop when the brushes wear and fail to make contact.


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## Alf Beharie (15 May 2015)

Myfordman":ogo2g6ya said:


> "The machine is fitted with self-disconnecting brushes which when worn out stop the machine"
> 
> What a total load of bull! Talk about trying to make a feature out of nothing. All brush motors will stop when the brushes wear and fail to make contact.



True, but it could have been the reason Dr Bob thought they were "kaput"...


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## Eric The Viking (15 May 2015)

Hi Bob,

Delighted you haven't vanished altogether from round 'ere!

Like you I was skeptical. I did a bit of Googling to find a patent, but coudn't (probably my fault), but I did find one write-up on the Festool owners group about the CS70, together with a picture. It seems there's a spring-loaded insulating pin moulded into the commutator brush.

Presumably, when it wears down enough, this pin breaks through the surface, and forces the carbon back against the main commutator spring, away from the commutator ring.

Neat, but complicated and it makes the brushes a lot more expensive (I'd guess). And unnecessary too, if you look after your tools.







By the way, I have a few sets of brushes for tools. Some things used to come with a spare set. One day I went to get a set from the set of see-thru component drawers where they were kept, only to find them quite firmly 'glued' to the bottom of the drawer. Something in the carbon brush composition seems to have reacted with the polystyrene/abs/whatever of the drawer, melting it.

Have you ever come across this, and have you got any idea what's going on? I use small polythene zip-lock bags now, but I'm not 100% certain they're good over long periods, either.

E.


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## Alf Beharie (15 May 2015)

TimothyClaypole":1kfq646l said:


> They've a FREUD FT 1000 E listed as brand new and you can see the dust and rust on it in the picture.
> 
> You get asked when listing items as new etc.
> 
> It should be new (other), misleading.



I have emailed them asking them for a small refund of £25 off the £125 I paid them for it for knowingly misleading me...Even though I threatened them with negative feedback and being reported to trading standards they are refusing to pay up. I only have two options..1) keep it and lump it, or 2) Send it back and get my money back. I have no intention of sending it back as its the exact router I wanted and I need it urgently at the moment anyway...So that only leaves me option 1!


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## RogerP (15 May 2015)

> I threatened them with negative feedback


As much as I feel for you that's not a wise thing to do. Should the seller report it eBay will get cross with you.


> * eBay Feedback extortion policy*
> Buyers:
> *The buyer isn't allowed to threaten to use Feedback* or detailed seller ratings in an attempt to force a seller into providing:
> Goods or services that weren't included in the original item's description or purchase price.
> ...


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## Alf Beharie (16 May 2015)

RogerP":10quk9dp said:


> > I threatened them with negative feedback
> 
> 
> As much as I feel for you that's not a wise thing to do. Should the seller report it eBay will get cross with you.
> ...



I guess I got a bit hot headed about it, but so would anyone if they found out they have been deliberately conned. Still, as they are not going to pay up I doubt they will say anything to ebay. I'm more worried about getting negative feedback. I don't think they have given me feedback yet which puts me at a disadvantage because if I give them negative feedback before they have given their feedback they can simply give me negative feedback in return...tit for tat in other words. I've had that issue before and was left with no option but to a mutual withdrawal (MW) of each others negative feedback...you get to keep your 100% score but the MW stays on your ebay record for all to see.


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## RogerP (16 May 2015)

Sellers cannot give negative feedback to buyers. It has to be positive or nothing at all.

A sellers only recourse with a bad buyer is to complain through the eBay process.


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## Stu_2 (16 May 2015)

You should leave the appropriate negative feedback, otherwise idiots like this will continue to mislead other buyers.. You've absolutely nothing to lose, and could well save someone some agro.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Alf Beharie (17 May 2015)

Stu_2":tpftxx31 said:


> You should leave the appropriate negative feedback, otherwise idiots like this will continue to mislead other buyers.. You've absolutely nothing to lose, and could well save someone some agro.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Unless they have changed the feedback system since I had that problem, as far as I am aware sellers can still give buyers negative feedback?


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## RogerP (17 May 2015)

Alf Beharie":2s9ssawt said:


> Unless they have changed the feedback system since I had that problem, as far as I am aware sellers can still give buyers negative feedback?


No, not for several years. Only positive.


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## Rhossydd (17 May 2015)

RogerP":1ctgdzkp said:


> As much as I feel for you that's not a wise thing to do. Should the seller report it eBay will get cross with you.
> 
> 
> > * eBay Feedback extortion policy*
> ...


The point here is that the seller DIDN'T provide the item that was described in the auction. There's no possible grounds for complaint by the seller or eBay, when the buyer is just offering the seller the chance to rectify the error before they leave feedback.


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## Alf Beharie (17 May 2015)

Negative feedback now given to Belltools! I wrote: "They are liars!...Selling USED equipment as "Brand New"! Dont trust them!!!"
Hopefully that will stop them being able to sell that obviously used Freud FT1000 they currently have for sale on ebay, also advertised as "Brand New", despite having visible rust on the tops of the plunge posts!:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREUD-FT-1000 ... 3aa994130b
I wish I could have written a lot more but they only allow you to write so many characters...Best I could do in the circumstances.


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## sigbert (2 Jan 2016)

I couldt find my 1/2" collet, for my Casals FT2000VCE.
Could I be wrong if I go with this http://www.trenddirectuk.com/de6278.html?

I also had mine for several years, think I got it back in 1998. I havent used it to much, and now I mounted it permanent under a table.


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