# Feedback on first design and project



## sebinho (13 May 2016)

Hello all,

I've decided for my first woodworking project (before I get on to making stringed instruments), to do something as simple as possible. I've chosen to make two supports for a pair of self-powered loudspeakers that I have, each weighing about 10kg and with a base of 250mm square. What I'm looking for is essentially a pair of stools and I would like to elevate each speaker by 750mm from the floor. For the design, I'd like to model the stools on De Stijl furniture, mainly because I don't have the confidence to try mortise and tenon joints on my first attempt and the joints in the De Stijl projects, from what I've seen, are either bolted/screwed or with notched-joints. This looks more simple to do.

I want to avoid using bolts or screws if possible for the frame of stools. Can I run this plan past you to see if my stool/supports will do the job?

For the frame I wish to use 30x30mm solid wood (freijó?), both the uprights and the spacers. If you can imagine first of all, a pair of uprights, the two front legs. I wish to add two spacers to the legs, one near the base and the other near the top of the upright pair. The spacers will be attached at the rear of the uprights and will do so with notch joints, with notches in the upright and in the spacer and each being 1/4 the thickness of the wood. I'll call these spacers the primary spacers. A secondary spacer will run at right angles to each of the primary spacers, resting on top of the primary and running through to connect with a second pair of uprights with primary spacers at the rear. Each secondary spacer will have a notch cut into it with a depth of 50% of its width. The upright in the case of this secondary spacer will not have a corresponding notch.

I'll attach below some sketches of what I'm planning. Do you think the idea is sound and will the supports hold together with just glue, or will I need to use screws or bolts? If bolts/screws are necessary, will they be needed on all joints?

I hope this is clear enough. Thanks!












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## LancsRick (13 May 2016)

If I read your sketches right, what you're describing are half lap joints which are very strong and glue will be fine. As with most joints, the precision of the fit has a great impact on the strength, so make them as good a fit as you can.


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## sebinho (13 May 2016)

Thanks Rick. I've got a pdf of a very ancient book "working with handtools" by Hasluck. It describes the half lap joint as when the groove cut in both pieces of wood is at 50% the width of the pieces. If I read it correctly it correctly, it describes joints with shallower grooves/notches as notch joints. Sorry my drawings are not very clear, but I'm proposing two types of joints: 1) where both pieces have a groove of 25% cut in them to form the joint and 2) where one piece has has a 50% groove and the other has none.The spacer used with this type of joint will however rest upon another spacer at right angles, one secured with the 1st joint type (25%/25%).

In both cases, the spacers will jut out from the uprights by a factor of 50% of their widths rather than lying flush with the upright as would be the case with a true half lap joint.


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## Stanleymonkey (14 May 2016)

Do you have any pics of De Stijl furniture?


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## Brentingby (14 May 2016)

Is this something like what you have in mind?


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## sunnybob (14 May 2016)

Approaching from a different angle....
Do the loudspeakers you have really want to be raised 750 mm? Are they true Hi-Fi?

Some Hi Fi speakers are much better on the floor. check your manual to make sure before embarking on making something that you might hate once finished.


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## sebinho (14 May 2016)

Brentingby,That's nice! Yes, pretty much, although with the uprights more widely spaced so that the ends of the spacers don't stick out so much. You've dawn it with all the joints having grooves of 25%/25%. I was thinking of doing only half the joints like that and the other half at 50%/0%, but seeing it well drawn, I can now see how it would work. I'll do it the way you suggest in your render. What software do you use by the way? Know of any software of this sort for Linux anyone?

sunnybob, they're are actually studio monitors meant to positioned near-field and with the tweeters at ear-height. These are a spare set that I have and I currently use them in the living room. The height is about right for people sat at the table - it gets the sound over some other furniture in the room as well. I have them on some ugly pine stands at present they work well. Ideally the supports should either be solid concrete or tubular steel filled with sand. This would give a more ideal bass response but I'm not too worried. 

I went and ordered the wood this morning, a wood called jequitibá. It's quite a nice wood with a blonde-rosey colour and apparently easy to work.

Thanks!


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## Brentingby (14 May 2016)

My error. I drew the stretchers so they extend 60mm from the outside of the legs instead of the inside. If I had saved the model it would have been easily fixed in about 10 seconds. It was such an easy thing to draw, I didn't bother to keep it, though. :? The notches are shown at 6 mm deep so a total overlap of 12mm between each stretcher and leg. If you notch only one piece of the two and round over the edges of the pieces, there will be a gap that shows. By notching both pieces as I showed, there will be no gaps.

I used SketchUp for the drawing. It is only supported for Windows and Mac but some people manage to run it on Linux.


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## sebinho (15 May 2016)

Stanleymonkey":16m82ln8 said:


> Do you have any pics of De Stijl furniture?



Yes! There's an exhibition on here in Brasilia at the moment on Mondrian and De Stijl. Took these snaps of a chair that I liked:











I've chosen to cradle the seat between the legs rather than have it sit on top. It'll give the stand a wider base and should be more stable..


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## MattRoberts (15 May 2016)

So do you have a tablesaw to make the notches / laps? I think one of the key aspects to this style is the precision of the joints.


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## sunnybob (15 May 2016)

sunnybob, they're are actually studio monitors meant to positioned near-field and with the tweeters at ear-height. These are a spare set that I have and I currently use them in the living room. The height is about right for people sat at the table - it gets the sound over some other furniture in the room as well. I have them on some ugly pine stands at present they work well. Ideally the supports should either be solid concrete or tubular steel filled with sand. This would give a more ideal bass response but I'm not too worried. 
Thanks![/quote]

AHH, The joys of real Hi Fi.
I miss it. I sold all mine when I moved countries. I kind of regret that now.


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## sebinho (15 May 2016)

MattRoberts":1hc6uobh said:


> So do you have a tablesaw to make the notches / laps? I think one of the key aspects to this style is the precision of the joints.



No, I'll be using a hand saw and chisel, and for the first time (second time if you include the pencil case I made in school nearly forty years ago). In my favour, the wood supplier told me the pieces will be delivered well finished and well square. Sounded like I won't need to do any planing, probably just a cabinet scraper to tidy the surface. I've bookmarked a Christopher Tribe video on making lap joints.

sunnybob, get ye to eBay!


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## Brentingby (15 May 2016)

I had a minute so I redrew the stand with 30mm extensions. Your sketches don't say anything about how far the legs will extend above the top so I made them flush this time.

I think you'll do just fine with chisel and saw if you do accurate marking out.


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## sebinho (15 May 2016)

That's excellent Brentingby, thanks again. Yes, actually the top is also meant to have 30mm extensions to equal the sides. The lower stretchers may go a little lower, haven't decided yet - but please, no need to redraw! I would like to ask though, is it possible for you to send me the sketchup file? I tried to install and run sketchup yesterday on Linux. Couldn't get it to run but I'll try again. I'll send you my email address by PM, if you saved the file, please send.


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## Brentingby (15 May 2016)

I saved it this time and I'll send it to you. 

Redrawing it wouldn't be needed. It can just be modified to make the legs extend to 30mm.

I'd just share it here but the extension isn't allowed. :roll:


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## sebinho (15 May 2016)

Many thanks Brentingby. I got the 2016 version of SketchUp to run in the end. Made a couple of tweaks to the file you created and I think I'm happy with the design now. Thickened the top plate out to 30mm and stretched it out from square to reach the edges of the two supporting stretchers.






Now I have to wake up early to make the change on my wood order!

All the best!


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