# Trying to decide whether to join you turners...



## brianhabby (10 Jul 2008)

Hi all,

I've been lurking in this lathe section for a bit, trying to decide whether to have ago - still not made up my mind completely although I'm sure there are plenty on here who will try to convince me.

So, which lathe should I look for?

I like the look of the Fox Midi Lathe which is affordable and allows for expansion in the future should I need a longer bed. The Rutlands site claim that it is a sturdy machine and it sounds well suited to my needs, however...

there is a Draper WTL90 for sale near me for £180.00 and the add says it includes tools although I don't know exactly what tools are included. Not sure about Draper as a make, I've always seen them as cheapo stuff, but then I know nothing about Fox tools either.

I think a lathe should be sturdy and quiet and have a good capacity but other than that I'm not really sure what to look for. I'll probably only turn small items to start with but who knows what the future holds and how this chapter of my woodworking life will evolve. I don't really want to buy too small a lathe and then regret it later.

I am also confused by all the talk of different chucks & tapers and cutting tools. I've ordered Woodturning: A Foundation Course by Keith Rowley which I'm hoping will be here in the next day or two, so hopefully that will help with some of the more technical stuff.

Any advice on the lathes I've mentioned, or any others you think suitable, would be very much appreciated.

regards

Brian


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## Bodrighy (10 Jul 2008)

If you want to check the sticky at the top of this forum you will see a list of what lathes most off us have got. Probably confuse you even more but will give you some idea of the things to look for.

If you can give us an idea of budget, what sort of thing you are interested to start with and what sort of space you have I am sure that we will flood you with ideas. As you said unless you know that you arte going to stick with pens and smaller stuff you are better off going for the biggest and best you can afford but you will need to cost in tools, at least a couple of gouges and a parting tool, cheap ones are a false economy. Blister may come along with a few ideas, he has or had a shed load. 
Whichever you decide be sure that you will be on a very slippery slope.....good fun though

Pete


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## brianhabby (10 Jul 2008)

Hi Pete, thanks for your quick reply,

Yes I did check out the sticky to see what others on the forum have got but as you say it really just adds to the confusion because the list doesn't really contain recommendations as such.

The reason I liked the idea of the Fox is because it is small and affordable _(initial budget is somewhere in the £200 area)_ and can be extended when I need to. Rutlands description paints a nice picture _(as expected)_ and the price is right _(£169.95)_ which should leave a little bit for some starter tools.

I suppose I'd really like to hear from anyone who has this particular lathe or knows anything about it.

And, yes, like anything woodwork related, the slope can get pretty slippery :lol: 

regards

Brian


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## Anonymous (10 Jul 2008)

Hi Brian

The usual _caveat_... turning can seriously damage your wealth.. :lol: 

Check your area for woodturning clubs, they're a very useful source of info... there's usually a variety of lathes within the membership, not to mention expertise on tap.

Have a look at the stuff (OK, turned items :roll: ) posted on here, you'll get a better feel for what you may want to attempt in the future ... you can turn small on a big lathe but not _vice versa_

Even half a day with a competent tutor will pay dividends... learning is easy if you put your mind to it, unlearning isn't!


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## brianhabby (10 Jul 2008)

Okay, what am I likely to turn.

Well not pens :twisted: 

I know, I'll probably get thrown off the forum for this sacrilege as I know a lot of people make pens, but I find them boring.

The things that do interest me are probably bowls to start with and maybe goblets and small boxes. Once I've got a lathe I can use it for larger parts of other projects.

regards

Brian


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## Blister (10 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":23gu5r27 said:


> Okay, what am I likely to turn.
> 
> Well not pens :twisted:
> 
> ...



Pens boring ?

each to there own but they do make a nice personal gift , and everyone that has seen my pens wants to buy them , only 2 weeks ago while visiting my dad in hospital i got a order for 2 , without even trying , nice to see happy people when you hand them over  

Please be open minded and have a go at everything , but be careful and use a proper respirator , eyes and lungs don't come cheap , if at all :wink:


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## Anonymous (10 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":2njgsd2o said:


> (...) I know a lot of people make pens, but I find them boring.


Me too! (don't tell anyone :wink that said, I've seen some beauties on here


> Once I've got a lathe I can use it for larger parts of other projects.


Chair/table legs/clock finials etc? 

Around 80% of woodturning is done within 12"/300mm of the headstock so unless you intend going the leg route you won't necessarily need a long bed...


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## Dean (10 Jul 2008)

Hi Brian, It's already been said but try to avoid the cheaper end of anything you might be tempted by or the all singing and dancing, electronic, digital speed control, reverse, rotating head with 12 positions lathes, all those function have purpose but are you going need or use any of them for the extra cost.
If your budget isn't upto a brand new decent quality lathe have a look for a good second hand one, there's often some decent tools included with second hand decent quality lathes.
Take your time, think and have look around before buying any accerories like sharpening jigs etc, you can make your own jigs and accerories for next to nothing.


Well I've listed some of the things I should have done  

Dean :lol: :lol:


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## Bodrighy (10 Jul 2008)

I must confess I haven't done pens and don't really have an inclination to. You will probably find that you gravitate to a favourite type as you practice. Me it is using old tatty wood and trying (ineffectually) to emulate some of the more artistic type of stuff, Other make loads of bowls of never changing variety and ever increasing skill whilst others like to make things from the parts that most of us lose in the shavings :lol: That's at least half the fun of this hobby (obsession :roll: ) something for everyone.

Practically speaking there are a number of lathes within your price bracket but if you want to make bowls you will probably have to get a chuck sooner rather than later and they can be expensive. As Graham said unless you want to start doing lamp standards or table legs you wouldn't need the length of bed but watch out for the power and the dia. over the bed. The Fox latehs seem to be really popular on the French forums and I think one of the pros on here had a top of the range Fox for sale recently so he may come back with quality.


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## brianhabby (10 Jul 2008)

Some good points there guys.

Blister, 
I take your point about pens making good gifts, I hadn't really thought of them in that way - no offence intended, I've admired a lot of stuff on this forum.

Oldsoke.

I can see that the idea of most turning being done within about 12" of the headstock sounds reasonable, and the Fox Midi gives 15" between centres without the extension. If I want to do longer stuff in the future, I can upgrade it.

I think I'm talking myself into the Fox, even if no one else is recommending it.

regards

Brian


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2008)

Brian, how does it compare with the Axminster Miniwith variable speed?


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## Paul.J (11 Jul 2008)

Have you had a look on Ebay.
I don't think the Fox mini lathe got a good review :? 
Whatever you decide on,i'm sure it will be enjoyable


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## brianhabby (11 Jul 2008)

Bodrighy,

I take it you don't get a chuck when you buy a lathe then, Looking through the catalogues there seem to be an abundance of different ones, how do you decide which one is the right one? Does it matter which lathe you've got or are they all interchangable?

Chas,

I looked at that Axminster one and it appears to be very similar in spec to the Fox lathe, slightly longer bed, but only half a horse compared to the Fox's three quarters - how much of a difference would this make.

I can't work out whether these things are sold with stands or not, is that something to consider?

Paul,

I keep looking on eBay, but I'm not always sure what I am looking at as there are often older lathes which I can't compare with anything. I'll keep looking though.

The book I ordered arrived this morning and I must say at first glance it looks to be very comprehensive, I should get some good tips from that. I'm looking forward to a good read.

regards

Brian


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## Paul.J (11 Jul 2008)

Brian.
Here are some more thoughts from members on small lathes.


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":3vd9fudd said:


> .....Chas,
> 
> I looked at that Axminster one and it appears to be very similar in spec to the Fox lathe, slightly longer bed, but only half a horse compared to the Fox's three quarters - how much of a difference would this make.
> 
> ...



The difference in HP for that size of machine should not make a lot of difference, in fact the Axminster one being a variable speed DC (Magnet) motor should give you better torque than a simple induction motor (basically the same type as used on treadmills albeit in bigger HP) But I have not used one to check this out and a lot depends on how good (well engineered) the control unit is.

*Bench* Lathes of this size are not normally sold with stands.

Chucks, basically you get what you pay for in quality, Axminster brand is good so should the Sorby Patriot Brand, Patriot Brand is compatable with the Nova2 range so accessories fit either, both companies are pretty good at resolving problems should you have one.

Chucks have to have a thread matching the spindle of the lathe.

Some thread directly on (bigger lathes), some(most) have an adapter in the back so that a common body can be matched to various lathes, this can be an advantage if you change lathes as you can keep your chuck and its accessories, just changing the adapter if necessary.


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## brianhabby (11 Jul 2008)

I think I'm getting more confused the more I learn  

It seems that when anyone mentions the Fox lathes, it's not good comments, so maybe not the choice I should make :? 

I'll keep looking a bit more, there's no rush, I want to make sure I get the right machine - don't want to buy it twice...

I did visit a local club last month and they had a demonstration by a guy making a goblet with a spiral stem, most impressive. He was using a Vivmarc as mentioned by Simon on the other thread. A nice machine but at a price  

I visited the St. Asaph Woodfest and saw some people there from this club. It was seeing the stuff at Woodfest that got me going on the idea of turning and visiting the club only made me want to do it more.

It was quite a journey _(60+ miles round trip)_ and I got there a bit late. I plan to be a bit earlier next time to give me a chance to talk to people before it starts. There were a lot of people there, well over forty.

If anyone's interested the club is called The Cheshire and North Wales Woodturners Association

BTW, no one's commented on the Draper yet, I wonder why

regards

Brian


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## davegw (11 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":3jfsiq1o said:


> BTW, no one's commented on the Draper yet, I wonder why
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian



Ok Brian, I have the SIP version of the lathe you show in your link, which is £250 not £180?

I haven't had it for a long time, but I am really happy with it. 

When I got mine a lot of people suggested I get a second hand lathe, but I decided I wanted the comfort of a warrenty. 

It does have a swivel head, which is handy if you are planing to turn bowls and platters over 12". And it also has a fairly simple variable speed mechanism that saves you undoing the casing everytime you change speed (although I think I change speed now just because I can!)

If you are on a tight budget, want to purchase New, and you need the bed length, swivel head, and variable speed this is a lathe I'd recommend.

Dave


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2008)

Brian, a lot of the machines available are to a very similar pattern, the only major difference between them being the colour of the paint and Brand name. (most emanate from the same chinese melting pot)

There may well be a difference in the quality of fit or finish of individual components depending on the price point applied buy the wholesale buyers.

Axminster Perform range as opposed to the White range of similar machines for example.

Often peoples reluctance to pass comment about a particular machine may not be down to the machine but the service/value for money they have received from a particular Brand supplier.


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## brianhabby (11 Jul 2008)

Okay, thanks guys,

Dave,

Is the SIP one you have the same as the Draper? The link was just to show the lathe not the price. There is one advertised locally second hand at £180.00.

regards

Brian


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## Anonymous (11 Jul 2008)

Hi Brian, 

I have an axminster M900 lathe just like that. Possibly some difference internal components but much the same lathe. Works great for me as a starter lathe. I'm glad I didn't pay any more as it takes a good while to build up the skill levels. The more I learn the more I realise I'm not ready for a better lathe yet. 

I paid £250 for mine second hand but I got tools, chuck, wood and books with it. In fact the extras were worth more than the lathe. The chuck is the most important thing for me. I'd have gone out and bought one a few weeks later if I didn't have one. Haven't spent a penny on tools but did get a good selection with the lathe. 

As long as you get some extra bits then I'd say £180 is a good deal. You won't get a better lathe for the money (you might get a few extra bits if you hold out but no guarantees). Last year at the Westonbirt festival there were a good number of demonstrators using similarly branded lathes. If it's good enough for them it's good enough for me. 

Dave


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## loz (11 Jul 2008)

I don't know what the thoughts\ comments of the more experienced guys on here are, but i just love my Record Power DML , have you had a look there ?? - they have quite a range, even for beginners. 


http://www.recordpower.co.uk


Regards the Book - Great read, full of advice, however, get yourself along to a class or some other tuition, 100 x better than any book/dvd. 


Regs 

Loz


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## davegw (11 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":1dp80w8g said:


> Okay, thanks guys,
> 
> Dave,
> 
> ...



It is - and £180 second hand feels quite steep?



davejester":1dp80w8g said:


> The chuck is the most important thing for me. I'd have gone out and bought one a few weeks later if I didn't have one. Haven't spent a penny on tools but did get a good selection with the lathe



I agree, my chuck cost more than my first lathe and was money well spent.


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## brianhabby (11 Jul 2008)

davegw":3c8u1nmu said:


> It is - and £180 second hand feels quite steep?



Actually that was my original thought, that's why I haven't persued it.

Okay, back to the catalogues.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (11 Jul 2008)

I've just had another look at the advert and it says it comes with tools but not which tools. So I guess it really depends on what comes with it whether it's worth it or not.

I've just left a message for the seller to get back to me so we'll see what happens.

regards

Brian


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## brianhabby (12 Jul 2008)

Well, I've just got back from viewing this Draper lathe and have agreed to buy it for £150.

There is no stand with it but it is mounted on a wooden bench which I can have as well. The lathe hasn't been used for about three years and there is some surface rust to clean up, but not too much.

It comes with two chucks and over a dozen turning chisels, so I think with the extras it is worth £150. I'm picking it up on Wednesday evening.

regards

Brian


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## Paul.J (12 Jul 2008)

No turning back nw then Brian  
Seems a good buy.


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## davegw (12 Jul 2008)

brianhabby":135wj6ah said:


> Well, I've just got back from viewing this Draper lathe and have agreed to buy it for £150.
> 
> There is no stand with it but it is mounted on a wooden bench which I can have as well. The lathe hasn't been used for about three years and there is some surface rust to clean up, but not too much.
> 
> ...




Sound like a good deal Brian, can't wait to see your work 

Good luck 

Dave


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## mrs. sliver (12 Jul 2008)

Welcome to the money pit Brian. :lol: I have a Draper, ancient and bought of ebay for £35 a few years ago!

I think you have to 'buy and try' before you know what is going to be more important to you. I could do with a new lathe, I can manage on this one. BUT, when I do go to buy a new one, I know what features will make life easier for me with the way I turn and what features are less important. You can't know what you will enjoy turning until you have been doing it a while. 

You sound to have got a good buy there. have fun!


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## NickWelford (12 Jul 2008)

Sounds like a good buy, Brian - chucks alone must be worth 150! Flash us a pic of your first efforts....... or even of the buy - you may even qualify for a gloat.....


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## brianhabby (12 Jul 2008)

Thanks for the encouraging comments,

I'll certainly post a pic of the buy, it might be a while before i've got any turning worth posting though :wink: 

regards

Brian


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## Bodrighy (12 Jul 2008)

That's it....you are now officially on the slope. Sounds like you have a good start. Let's face it most odf us want a new lathe after about 6 months but the lod adage 'a bad workman blames his tools' comes to mind every time I see some of things turned on pole lathes and lod 3 speed belt lathes. Look forward to seeing your masterpieces

Pete


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## PowerTool (12 Jul 2008)

Welcome to the club,Brian - as said,with a couple of chucks,you've certainly got good value  
And don't be shy about posting your early turnings ; there's a wealth of constructive friendly advice to be had on the forum,which has certainly helped me over the last couple of years (and still does)
I've still got my first turnings - regardless of if I can do better now or not,they were still my first,and will still be kept (yes,I'm sentimental about them :wink: )

Andrew


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## brianhabby (18 Jul 2008)

This is what I got for my money

The lathe, A Draper WTL90. A bit rusty but it works okay and should clean up nicely.







These are the two chucks. I don't know anything about them, maybe one of the forum experts can explain  






I also got a load of turning chisels, about twenty in total. Quite a good mix, now all I have to do is learn what to do with them.






Most of the chisels (is that the right word?) have got a bit of surface rust on them but nothing that can't be quite easily cleaned with a bit of emery paper. Some of them have the slogan 'The Home of Woodturning' written on the handle. Some are just plain.

I also got the wooden bench that he had the lathe mounted on but I think I will re-make that when I get round to it. At the moment, I am waiting for a corner in the workshop to become clear so I can get it all in place and start turning.

regards

Brian


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## rileytoolworks (1 Jan 2010)

BUMP.
Brian, how did you get on with this lathe?
Was it worth the money and would you recommend it?

Adam.


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## MikeG. (2 Jan 2010)

Brian,

don't do it!!!!!!! There is yet time to save yourself. Step back from the precipice......take a deep breath.......and promise yourself that however bad things get you don't ever need to tread this path again.

Save youself! .......and save you friends from having to smile insincerely every time you hand them yet another bowl........

  

Mike


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## BMac (2 Jan 2010)

Mike Garnham":z335x2a1 said:


> Brian,
> Save youself! .......and save you friends from having to smile insincerely every time you hand them yet another bowl....



Oh no! So that's what that look is! I thought my friends had all just become very tired.


Ohhhhh, I get it....TIRED of getting bowls.

I'm devastated!  

Oh well, I'll just go and make NEW friends  

Brendan


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## brianhabby (2 Jan 2010)

I have to admit to not having used the lathe since I bought it back in July. It has been stuck under the bench waiting for some room in the workshop.

As for whether it was worth the money, I'd say at £150 with all the extras a definate yes, even though I've not used it yet.

I really must get things sorted in the workshop this year. Last year was spent on a few larger projects which seemed to take over the small space that I have available.

I'm all wound up about this again now  

regards

Brian


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## Dave H (2 Jan 2010)

Hi Brian,

Thanks for giving a link to my club's website at www.cheshireandnorthwaleswoodturners.co.uk

I look after the web-site for the club and we will be glad to welcome you back to assist your slide down the slippery slope of woodturning.

We will also be back at Woodfest in June.

I live not too far away from you in Rhyl and it generally takes me about 30 mins to get to the club.

Our next meeting is on Jan 28th - a members night - so should be plenty of chance to talk to others etc.

Hope to see you there.


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## brianhabby (2 Jan 2010)

Thanks for the heads up about the January meet Dave. I'll do my best to be there.

regards

Brian


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## Jenx (2 Jan 2010)

Very best of Luck with the 'new' venture Brian ... I'm sure you'll love it, and spend ever-increasing amounts of time at your lathe.

Don't listen to _'That Man Garnham' _... we all know he sneaks out at night to a secret shed where he's got a VB36 that he lovingly rubs with both hands before demonically spinning huge platters and then anonymously deposits them with friends, romans and countrymen :wink:  

Mike - you know the phrase.. 'methinks thou protesteth toooo much; ?
heh heh ...
So will we 'out' you in 2010 as the fullblown turner we know you to be ??

Come on, post them up ( pics ), _ you know you want to_ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Blister (2 Jan 2010)

Brian 

I see you have done it , Well done :lol: 

LATHE :lol: CHUCK  TOOLS :mrgreen: 

We have other members at the top of the slope about to fling themselves off :mrgreen: 

ONE such person is Mike Garnham \/ \/ as you can see he spend a lot of time in the turning section , looking at all the nice lathes , Tools , Chucks and work 

Mike 2010 is the year of the Sloooooopppppeeeeeeee

Come on Mike all your friends are at the bottom to make it a soft landing 

:wink:


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