# Kitchen design help



## neilc (11 Sep 2006)

Hi,
As some may know I'm building a new house at the moment (serious stress) and as the timber frame is nearly complete its getting to the stage where I need to start putting some thought into the kitchen design.
This is the general idea at the moment for the layout.





The different units are as follows:- 1/500mm wide storage. 2/600mm wide double pot drawers under the hob. 3/600mm wide concealed dishwasher. 4/950mm undersink double door storage. 5/450mm wide Le Mans corner unit. 6/400mm wide drawers x 4. 7/ 500mm wide storage. 8/ 600mm wide full height cooker/microwave unit. 9/ 600mm wide full height larder unit. 10&12/ 450mm wide upper storage. 11/ 600mm wide extractor hood. 13/ 660mm wide double glass door display. 14/ 600mm wide upper storage. 15/ 400mm wide upper storage. 16/ 600mm wide upper storage. 17/ 600mm wide pot drawers in island. 18/ 500mm maybe wine storage like Seniors in the Oak Kitchen thread.

SWMBO kinda wants maple while I quite like cherry even though I haven't worked with either wood. We were thinking of doors and hardware again like in Seniors Oak Kitchen thread but recessed into face frames instead.

So thats the plans so far. The size of the project doesn't scare me but design is not my strong point so any advice would be greatly received.

Neil


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## Anonymous (11 Sep 2006)

Just a quick tip, to make it look more individual and bespoke, put posts and breakfronts in.
If you do make it out of cherry, ebonised turned posts go really well with it.
senior


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## jasonB (12 Sep 2006)

Not too bad a layout, just a couple of things.

You don't show a fridge

Don't forgrt to allow for a waste bin/bins or are you putting a small one under the sink

Jason


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## johnelliott (12 Sep 2006)

senior":mkkv1ev2 said:


> Just a quick tip, to make it look more individual and bespoke, put posts and breakfronts in.
> If you do make it out of cherry, ebonised turned posts go really well with it.
> senior



On the other hand, if it is going to be a working kitchen (for instance, do you have pets, will you need to mop the floors from time to time?) you might want to avoid posts which go to the floor. I find that in hard working kitchens an un-obstructed inset plinth (ideally in satin black) makes it a lot easier to keep the floor clean.

John


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## neilc (12 Sep 2006)

Senior
I was thinking of doing a breakfront at the sink all right but instead of posts maybe a double bead in each corner of the breakfront.

JasonB
Should have mentioned the fridge is one of them free standing American ones positioned where it shows the 1050 dimm on the drawing. Hadn't thought of a bin at all but that will probably just sit out in the utility and just be taken as required.

John
Think I agree with you on the posts.

I'm mainly concerned with the layout and making sure I'm using the space wisely. There is roughly 1m between all sides of the island and the main units. Is this enough?
On the side of the cooker unit and the exposed side of the larder unit I will go with a solid frame and veneered 6mm panels but not quite sure how to finish the cooker unit where it meets the upper storage. How do ye normally do this. I was thinking veneered mdf might be a bit plain.

Thanks all so far,
Neil


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## johnelliott (13 Sep 2006)

neilc":3ghww8bu said:


> I'm mainly concerned with the layout and making sure I'm using the space wisely. There is roughly 1m between all sides of the island and the main units. Is this enough?


IMO, yes


neilc":3ghww8bu said:


> On the side of the cooker unit and the exposed side of the larder unit I will go with a solid frame and veneered 6mm panels but not quite sure how to finish the cooker unit where it meets the upper storage. How do ye normally do this. I was thinking veneered mdf might be a bit plain.



Not sure I follow this.
Do you mean should it have a cornice?
I hate cornice. Virtually every kitchen I see has it, and most times the mitres have opened. 
How high is the ceiling? Most of the kitchens I do, the cupboards go all the way to the ceiling which-
increases storage space
gives the 'custom made' look
eradicates a dust/grease trap
means I don't need cornice

Something I notice from your plan, in the 14, 15, 16 area you have the wall units lining up with the base units. I suggest you don't bother, no one will notice, and instead change the dimensions until the doors are all the same. I try to do my kitchens so that most of the doors are around 475-550 wide, which is an ideal width. Avoid the narrow stuff unless it's a special feature. Obviously some units need to be 600 because of the appliances
All the above IMHO, of course

John


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## jasonB (13 Sep 2006)

Just make sure you can swing the fridge doors open enough to slide any trays/draws open as they often need to go back more than 90 degrees to allow this. I avoid putting them in corners for this reason.

Jason


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## neilc (13 Sep 2006)

john
No I'm not gone on the cornice myself, I'll have to put a bit of thought into that one as I wouldn't be gone on full height cupboards either. What I actually meant was the siding to use on the tall cooker unit side where it meets the upper cabinets. I've seen tongued and grooved siding but not too sure about it, do you just glue the tongued and grooved onto the side of the carcase. Stiles, rails and panels I don't think will work because of the footprint of the upper cabinets on that side. Hope I explained myself better this time.

Jason
Another one I didn't think of, cheers.

Neil


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## jasonB (13 Sep 2006)

Most tall unit sides are a sheet of MDF with the T&G detail routed in. They are screwed to the MFC carcase side from inside before the appliance is put in the space.

You could still go the frame & panel rout but have frame members that align with the wall units and also at worktop height. That way the wall unit will butt upto solid timber and you won't get a gap where the panel is if it is part touching the frame. The panel would look a bit like a 4/6 panel door with a vertical center style. If thats a bit unclear let me know & I'll sketch it out.

I also do quite a few kitchens with full height ceilings, you will possible need a scribing piece if the ceiling is out although if you go for face frames they can be left over height and scribed.

Jason

Jason


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## Mcluma (13 Sep 2006)

Can you put the sink in the island,

this will save you valuable workspace 

then

IMO drop the american style fridge, they are a pain.

if you need the fridge space.

buy two european style fridges (with freezer on the bottom and you have better quality fridge and all is european style din size (american fridges are to deep - not high enough - cumbersome - and like i said AMERICAN :lol: 

I have had the american style freezer (because the wife thought they were great)

so we had that thing for 5 years,. in the new kitchen she said never again an american style fridge freezer

so we went for two top of the range fridge freezers european style

just look at the pics that will explain
(will post some of them tonight don"t have them on this computer :evil: )


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## engineer one (15 Sep 2006)

looks interesting have you thought about what kind of storage you
are going to have in the corners. 

in general they are never considered properly until late.
yesterday, in isaac lord warehouse, they had a couple
of interesting steel tray units which kind of fold out of the corners
and doors, then there are the double wire units which fold out
one after the other. strong, and very useful.

where are your meter cupboards, and what about switching points?

scrit might know that the things i am talking about are hafele
or someone else.

paul :wink:


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## Scrit (15 Sep 2006)

engineer one":ea4c01vi said:


> yesterday, in isaac lord warehouse, they had a couple of interesting steel tray units which kind of fold out of the corners and doors, then there are the double wire units which fold out one after the other. strong, and very useful.


They sound like "Magic" corners. Lords do their own which are Swiss - seem better quality than the Hafele ones.

Scrit


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## neilc (16 Sep 2006)

Paul
I plan on using one of these. I've seen them in Frank Flanagan Fittings in Dublin. They cost 170 euro which I was really impressed with. The shelves pull out the whole way and are very strong. They also do Bluemotion Tandem 450mm slides for 27 euro so I reckon I'll use them on the drawers. 

Not sure what you mean by meter cupboards. 

The main switching will be done from just inside the dining room arch. I think I will go for spots on the ceiling for worktop lighting, I'm kinda gone off the under unit strip lighting. The main light will probably be centred over the island which will be two wayed to the utility door.

Any other advice gratefully received.

Neil


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## engineer one (16 Sep 2006)

neil,
that looks ok have not seen such a thing. 
before the ones i have seen are actually all wire,
and don't just work in corners. also i saw an interesting 
wire tray which goes under the sink.

in the uk, our gas meters and electricity meters go in 
special cupboards, and are often in the kitchen, always worth 
thinking about. also where are you going to put the water
shut off valves etc??? are they easily accessible.

paul :wink:


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## johnelliott (16 Sep 2006)

neilc":ikl99hjj said:


> I think I will go for spots on the ceiling for worktop lighting, I'm kinda gone off the under unit strip lighting.



Modern neon strips such as those sold by Screwfix only need a 40-50mm pelmet and will mean that the cook has direct lighting when they are preparing food on the worktop. Ceiling lighting at best provides angled light, and at worst is blocked by the body of the person that needs the light. I strongly recommend you to provide pelmet lighting, you don't have to use it but when you want it, it's there

John


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## Paul Chapman (16 Sep 2006)

neilc":k4i0akvi said:


> I think I will go for spots on the ceiling for worktop lighting, I'm kinda gone off the under unit strip lighting. The main light will probably be centred over the island



Hi Neil,

If I were building a kitchen I would always put in under-unit strip lights, in addition to the main lighting. However good the main lighting is, because it's in the ceiling your body will tend to cast shadows over the worktops. Most of the time you probably won't use it, but if you or your wife want to do intricate work, like cake decorating for example, you will find the under-unit strip lights make a big difference. Adding them later can be quite difficult - although I think you can get battery operated ones, but they would be a bit of a pain :wink: 

Paul


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## neilc (16 Sep 2006)

Paul (eng)
Over here we have to put our meters in special recessed boxes on the side of the house so the utility companies can come and read them without needing access to the house. We're only going to need an electrical one as we're using ground source heating. I'm going to put a breakfront on the sink cabinet so there shut be loads of room under there for water valves etc.

John & Paul C
Maybe I'll use under unit lighting after all. John have you got a link to the screwfix ones you are refering to. In our present house we have florescent ones but the lamps only last pi**ing time.

Neil


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## johnelliott (17 Sep 2006)

neilc":2n9z6whb said:


> Paul (eng)
> Over here we have to put our meters in special recessed boxes on the side of the house so the utility companies can come and read them without needing access to the house.



It's the same here, too, and has been for many years. I examine maybe 3 or 4 kitchens a week (less now since I stopped doing revamps) and I have never seen a gas meter in a kitchen cupboard. Under the stairs etc is far more likely. Electricity meter in a kitchen cupboard? maybe 2 in a hundred


neilc":2n9z6whb said:


> John & Paul C
> Maybe I'll use under unit lighting after all. John have you got a link to the screwfix ones you are refering to. In our present house we have florescent ones but the lamps only last pi**ing time.
> 
> Neil



http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 9&id=22239
John


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## engineer one (17 Sep 2006)

well flat dwellers certainly have to deal with meters in the 
most obscure of places.

in my case a whole cupboard is wasted to accomodate the 
gas meter, and its attendant handles etc.
 
paul :wink:


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## Anonymous (18 Sep 2006)

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## Mike B (19 Sep 2006)

You can get some very slim under cabinet lights which fit into a recess in standard 18mm cabinet base and look just like low voltage halogens but with a slightly thicker bezel - around 10mm IIRC. 

Unfortunately I have no idea who makes them or where to get them. Saw them whilst trawling for inspiration in a kitchen shop. I did ask the salesman about them but he was a stuck up so and so and refused to divulge any info. 

Maybe worth a hunt though... 

Mike


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