# Stranded in France!



## Mark A (10 Jun 2012)

Hi,

We took the ferry over to Normandy last Sunday to see the D-Day beaches, Bayeux etc, then drove down to Versailles for the night. While driving north to Amiens on Friday, the van (the infamous Scudo) lost power with a jolt and coasted to a stop on the hard shoulder. In his ineffable wisdom, my father decided to not take out AA European breakdown cover for an extra £75 without telling us, and the recovery to Amiens has already cost over double that. We were told that the garage the van was taken to can't look at it until tomorrow, so we're stuck in this godawful place for at least another day. 

The biggest problem is the language barrier - we can order coffees and buy baguettes okay enough but can't talk technical stuff with the mechanics, so its inevitable that we'll be ripped off. The recovery was bad enough!

When we get the diagnosis hopefully one of you can confirm it? 

Plus our cat had a suspected stroke on Friday! Why does it always happen to us? :x

Thanks in advance, 
Mark


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## gus3049 (10 Jun 2012)

mark aspin":1bul50kt said:


> Hi,
> 
> so we're stuck in this godawful place for at least another day.
> 
> Mark



Can't imagine a nicer place in which to get stuck :lol: 

Mind you, you are a bit far north of the really nice bits. bad luck with the transport, I too am without wheels but at least I am tucked up in my home during this wet weather.

Hope you get it sorted. My experience of French garages has all been positive and they always seem to go out of their way to help if they can. A few are just plug it in and see if the computer says no but a lot seem to be genuine mechanics who are used the keeping old French cars on the road along with all the modern stuff.

Good luck.


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## Jonzjob (10 Jun 2012)

Good luck from me too Mark.

As Gordon said,unless you are very unlucky the French are very good and will help all they can.

I don't know that part of France, but I agree that all of the places we have seen the best bits are even further South East than Gordons bit..

When you get the diagnosis let us know and we will try to fathom it for you. A lot of French speak English, at least a little, and what we once thought was bloody mindedness is because so many of them don't want to appear silly and are a bit frightened of looking so, so they don't.

Sorry to tell you what the forcast for Amiens is Mark, but they are often wrong.

http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/Am ... X0269:1:FR

Best of luck.


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## Jacob (10 Jun 2012)

mark aspin":8g7exoat said:


> .....our cat had a suspected stroke on Friday! Why does it always happen to us? :x
> 
> .....


Count yourself lucky it's only happened to the cat!


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## Mark A (11 Jun 2012)

*****UPDATE*****

The hotel receptionist phoned the garage and roughly translated what they said for us.... 

They say the "engine chain" is broken (timing chain I guess they mean) and will cost €3000 for a new engine.

The van is only 5 years old and has done around 55,000 miles, so how can the chain break so soon? Even if this is the case I think a reconditioned engine would cost considerably less than what they have quoted. 

We're now going to look at ways of getting the van to the UK to be repaired. 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Mark


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jun 2012)

mark aspin":9zqwj6ll said:


> The van is only 5 years old and has done around 55,000 miles, so how can the chain break so soon?



These days the timing "chain" is usually a belt and they do need to be replaced at intervals specified by the manufacturer (the recommended mileage or time interval is often specified in the vehicle handbook). When they go they can wreck the engine.

Hope you are able to get it sorted.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## JMcK (11 Jun 2012)

I have done a little research for the area you are in,Picardie. There are some numbers you could try here:

http://www.leboncoin.fr/services/320794227.htm?ca=19_s
http://www.leboncoin.fr/services/260885345.htm?ca=19_s

Also a list of garages in Amiens who offer breakdown recovery;

http://www.pagesjaunes.fr/annuaire/amie ... automobile

I am a long way away from you so cannot vouch for any of them bu it might give you a start.
It might well be cheaper to get it recovered by a firm local to you in UK

Good luck (or as they say over here _"Bon courage"_)


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## Mark A (11 Jun 2012)

Thanks guys

The van was serviced not that long ago, so I assume that the garage would have inspected/replaced the cam belt/chain then (I've read that the 1.3 engines have chains? Maybe I'm wrong though)

Thanks for the links, JMck - the second garage in the list, Garage du Petit St Jean are the robbing b******s who tried to rip us off. If you are unlucky enough to breakdown in this area then avoid them at all costs!! 

Mark


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## Harbo (11 Jun 2012)

Chains don't normally fail or need replacing?
When my wife had a Golf the belts needed to be changed every 40k miles!

Rod


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## Jonzjob (11 Jun 2012)

What vehicle model and engine is it Mark?


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## Mark A (11 Jun 2012)

It's a 57 reg Fiat Doblo cargo with the 1.3 multijet JTD diesel engine. It's such a gutless lump you have to take some hills in 1st gear! 

One of our contacts is delivering in Paris tomorrow so he's agreed to bring his car transporter and pick us up as a backload. He's going to drop us off at his brothers garage in London to take a look, and even if he can't fix it he can give us an idea of the work involved and how much it should cost. Then we'll phone the AA for recovery home. 

It should all go to plan... I hope!

Mark


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## Jonzjob (11 Jun 2012)

It just goes to show that it ain't what you know Mark. Good luck I hope that all works out well for you and yours !


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## Jonzjob (19 Jun 2012)

Well Mark, I for one am waiting on tenterhooks to find out just how you got on?

I assume from a misplaced glue gun you are now back in the U.K.

I hope that it all ended well :mrgreen:


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## Mark A (19 Jun 2012)

I haven't given an update because we're waiting for an update! Thanks for asking - it's nice to know that someone's thinking about me :lol: 

There wasn't as much trouble releasing the van as we had anticipated - I was expecting a 500 plus euro charge for "inspecting" the van so the 28 euro they wanted for parking it there wasn't too bad. Amiens won't be seeing me again, I can promise you!!

The courier took us to his friends garage in London (it's not his brother's) and they confirmed that the timing chain has snapped, doing untold damage to the valves, cylinder head and possibly the camshafts too, so the French garage were partly right. The AA came and tested the battery, but wouldn't help get us back to Swansea because the Halifax thing we were sold the week before only covers roadside assistance, despite being promised that we've got the full bells and whistles cover. By this point it was about 9pm so we had to pay for one of the courier's drivers to take us home because it would have been about 4am if we had taken public transport.

The garage said today that they've taken the engine out and will give it to a specialist to overhaul. They say it'll cost up to £1800 all in. Plus I have to go to London to pick it up when it's done.

The mechanics don't understand how the timing chain has snapped prematurely either because they should be changed ever 100,000 plus miles, yet the van has done just over half that? I doubt someone sneakily turned back the clock as it was a builder's van before we bought it, so the mileage it has done is what you would expect for a 5 year old vehicle.

We'll find out a bit more when the engine is taken to the specialists. Hopefully it won't be too long because I've got no transport, can't earn any money and I'm already sick of walking the four mile round trip to the shops each day to get the things I forgot to get the day before :roll: 

The next van is going to be anything other than a damned Fiat :lol: 

Mark


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## houtslager (20 Jun 2012)

ouch , sorry to hear this.

k


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## Jacob (20 Jun 2012)

3k euro for a new engine sounded a good price then, compared to recon etc. Not much consolation, except it's nice to know that the French garages wasn't ripping you off.


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## Jonzjob (20 Jun 2012)

That's not too good news Mark. Pistons don't like it wen valves stay open! It tenda to punch holes in them and break the heads off the valves to boot!! Especially on diesels where the compression ratio is much higher than petrol jobbies.



I would have thought that a builders van wuldn't have a tremendous milage on it? As an IBM mainframe hardware service engineer I was doing about 20,000 miles a year which is what the builder would have to have done in 5 years and I spent a fair amount of time on the road. I would have thought a builders van would have spent most of the day parked at his job? So in that case it may well be worth contacting Fiat U.K. to see if you can get something back if it's proved that the engine hasn't got anywhere the 100,000 mile mark?

Failing that have you priced a reconned engine? Because by the time you put all the labor and parts charges in there it may just be worth it?

The Fiat forum could be a good place to have a shufty at too. It loos as if there is loads of gen on there?

http://www.fiatforum.com/tech-talk/

Whatever, good luck :mrgreen:


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## Mark A (20 Jun 2012)

The mechanics talked us through the options and decided that overhauling the engine would be best as they were unsure of the extent of damage done, so it might not be as bad as they first thought. Plus the work done now will come with a warranty, while an engine from a breakers wouldn't. 

That's a good idea John. The problem would be getting any money back from them! :roll: 

Jacob - the 3000 euro was their initial approximation of how much it would cost. By their condescending attitude and aggressiveness (at one point I thought there was going to be a fight between the mechanics and the courier) No doubt they would find something else to add to the invoice. The van's in the best place to get repaired as it's being done by the friend of a friend, in a way.


Mark


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## tomatwark (20 Jun 2012)

My garage told me to change the timing belt and tensioners on my transporter at 50k the book says 60k.

Their reason was that they had 2 transporters snap timing belt tensioners under 60k giving the same result valves the pistons.

One of which was their own break down recovery pickup.

So the book is not always right.

When I have bought a vehicle with over 50k on the clock it has been part of the deal that a new belt was fitted if they wanted the sale, as I also do not believe service history either, anyone can get a rubber stamp made for about a £10.


Tom


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## Jonzjob (20 Jun 2012)

The reason that I suggested contacting Fiat was because when we had a Citroën C8 the cat/particulates filter gave up the ghost after about 30,000 km. That bill was 2,500€ or so. The Citroën sevrvice manager told me to contact Citroën Paris and they finished up refunding the price of the parts, almost 2000€. He had said that it should not have gone sick in that short time.

Tom, belts do need changing at much shorter intervals than chains by what Mark has said his was only just over 1/2 way there..

We have just got back from our local Citroën dealers this morning with a new bit for the tailgate, the release handle, just for me to find that they have changed the plug type. So, back there this afternoon to see if we can get the correct one ordered? Hey ho, such is life.. Made worse because under normal circumstances I would go on my own, but until my hand is out of this bleedin splint and still probably a couple more months before I can put any pressure on it! :?


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## dickm (20 Jun 2012)

mark aspin":oa3qtqoj said:


> Hi,
> 
> Plus our cat had a suspected stroke on Friday! Why does it always happen to us? :x



....so what's the news on the cat? Any better than the van?


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## Mark A (20 Jun 2012)

dickm":34wmfm5m said:


> mark aspin":34wmfm5m said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


At first they thought it was a stroke. Then a brain tumour. It's now being treated for a middle ear infection and is slowly getting better. It's still falling over but has stopped bumping in to things and walking in circles.

Despite the medication obviously working, all three vets who have looked at it still have contrasting opinions.Two vets want to give it a CAT scan (no pun intended :lol: ) to rule out a brain tumour. How much do you think that'll cost? The other one questioned it's quality of life, implying putting it out of it's misery. What misery? It hasn't done anything but sleep since it was beaten up by a Welsh cat four years ago! Sounds like a good life to me! It's a lazy git but it's happy - the only times it really moves is to follow the sun round the room or eat!


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## houtslager (20 Jun 2012)

": the only times it really moves is to follow the sun round the room or eat! "



K


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## adidat (21 Jun 2012)

My cats must have been related to yours, I have never known a creature to sleep as much, in 18 years she probably slept 17 :lol:

Adidat


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## dickm (22 Jun 2012)

mark aspin":2ripq4cw said:


> Two vets want to give it a CAT scan (no pun intended :lol: ) to rule out a brain tumour. How much do you think that'll cost? The other one questioned it's quality of life, implying putting it out of it's misery. What misery? It hasn't done anything but sleep since it was beaten up by a Welsh cat four years ago! Sounds like a good life to me! It's a lazy git but it's happy - the only times it really moves is to follow the sun round the room or eat!



Sounds like most cats I've met  . 
But in terms of cost, you may have a long way to go to catch up on our daughter's dog. He'd been ill for a couple of weeks last year, and the vet had tried everything she could think of, before finally suggesting they take him to Glasgow Vet Hospital. Got him there at midday, and after one X-ray they rushed him into surgery to remove his gall bladder which was on the point of bursting. Fortunately, he's insured for up to £7k per year, but it did mean he couldn't have more than about £100 treatment for the rest of the year.
The vet now shows him to all her student helpers, on the grounds that they will probably never see another similar case - apparently there are only two or three a year in the whole of Scotland.


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## Mark A (6 Jul 2012)

Still haven't got the van back. It's a month today since it broke down in France, and a month on Tuesday since it was dropped off at the garage in London. The mechanics didn't even touch the van for the first week, then the engine specialist they took the engine to didn't start until the next week. The garage had the engine back in the van last Friday but didn't like the sound it made so back to the specialists and we haven't heard since :x 

For almost a month I haven't been able to work and I can't hire a car due to my age. Public transport isn't an option because it's rubbish - it took me 4 hours of travelling to go to M&S 12 minutes away by car last week! 

On a plus side, the cats okay. It had the CAT scan (cost £1900 - hope the insurance didn't lie when they said it's covered!) and they've ruled out infections, tumours, strokes etc. and now suspect that it's got some sort of wobbly cat syndrome which it'll eventually get used to, though the cat will still fall over occasionally!

Mark


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## Sawyer (6 Jul 2012)

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Mark, but very glad of good news on the cat front.

I surprised me to find that (unlike most things) veterinary care is a bit cheaper over here in France. Not so, garages, it would seem!


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## Jacob (7 Jul 2012)

mark aspin":yzruuj0e said:


> ....it took me 4 hours of travelling to go to M&S 12 minutes away by car last week!


Bicycle?


> On a plus side, the cats okay. It had the CAT scan (cost £1900 - hope the insurance didn't lie when they said it's covered!) and they've ruled out infections, tumours, strokes etc. and now suspect that it's got some sort of wobbly cat syndrome which it'll eventually get used to, though the cat will still fall over occasionally!
> 
> Mark


Strewth! I'd just have it put down and get another one (if I wanted one at all but I don't). :lol:


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## gus3049 (7 Jul 2012)

Jacob":knhkp9c9 said:


> I'd just have it put down and get another one (if I wanted one at all but I don't). :lol:



I hope that a certain party never needs an expensive operation. There are plenty more men out there so I imagine the decision would be an easy one. Its not as if you can get attached to them or anything.


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## Mark A (7 Jul 2012)

Jacob":3fs2igmi said:


> Strewth! I'd just have it put down and get another one (if I wanted one at all but I don't).


Have a heart Jacob.


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## Jacob (7 Jul 2012)

Yes OK sorry. Anyway I don't want to give the Mrs any ideas, as Gordon pointed out!


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## Jonzjob (7 Jul 2012)

Haven't you noticed Mark? He's all heart :? :?


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## Modernist (7 Jul 2012)

Further proof if any were needed that Fiats are rubbish. I've just scrapped ours after 85k from new. Reason only 2 gears left. As a yardstick for repair costs try £600 for an replaced ignition switch and that was not even the main dealer who quoted more.

Cheap to buy but you pay later. We have succumbed to a transit.

Glad the cat is on the mend to resume it's soporific life.


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## Losos (7 Jul 2012)

mark aspin":3cdbm82y said:


> It's a lazy git *but it's happy* - the only times it really moves is to follow the sun round the room or eat!



And you Mark have been responsible for bringing that happiness to the little creature - *something you can be proud of *and which in my opinion makes all the trauma associated with the van pale into insignificance.

Our dog mobile is a FIAT Scudo as well so I'm getting a tad worried now after reading of your experience, but at least we never go more than 15 miles from home in it so hopefully not likely to be held to ransom by some foreign garage.

As for getting some recompense from FIAT there's not a hope. One of the journalists on Motorhome Monthly magazine spent two years and numerous articles in that journal and confronting them at exhibitions etc. over the fact that the FIAT Ducato has the wrong gear ratio in reverse and trying to reverse up a hills burns out the clutch. Changes were (eventually) made to the geabox ratio but the journalist and hundreds of other users *never got a penny*.


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## gus3049 (8 Jul 2012)

Jacob":3azolo4r said:


> Yes OK sorry.




I think I might frame that :lol:


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## Losos (8 Jul 2012)

gus3049":as058iao said:


> Jacob":as058iao said:
> 
> 
> > Yes OK sorry.
> ...



Saying sorry is easy, having compassion for a creature is not so easy, I am much more a dog person than a cat person but I still think that if a cat comes into ones life it should be respected, cats seem to be more detached from us humans than dogs but still like to be cuddled, on their terms of course. Apologies if this is taking the thread 'off subject' 

Not being able to work for four weeks must be hell, I hope you get the van back soon and when it comes to trade it in I guess you'll not be going for a FIAT :lol:


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## Jacob (8 Jul 2012)

Losos":1gleomwe said:


> gus3049":1gleomwe said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":1gleomwe said:
> ...


It's OK don't worry I didn't mean it. :lol: :lol:


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## pate (9 Jul 2012)

Tough situation! AA is a rip off......except in cases such as this.


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## Mark A (11 Jul 2012)

THE VAN'S READY!!!

Train is booked so I hope they've got it right -it will be 29 days tomorrow so they've had long enough!


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## Mark A (21 Aug 2012)

Since picking up the van it's been in-and-out of a garage for various problems...

Within minutes of arriving home after driving the van back from London we noticed diesel running down the driveway. After many trips to our local garage they diagnosed a hairline crack in the fuel rail (which the London garage had replaced) and the diesel was pooling on top of the engine. That was eventually fixed.

The leaking diesel had softened a radiator hose, and a week after the rail was repaired the hose split while I was a 115 miles away from home and had to refill the header tank about every five miles. That was fixed.

Now the van is in the garage again! This time for an oil leak from what they think is the fuel distributor. They won't know for certain until tomorrow, but if it is they may have to order a gasket so I'm stuck without a van and my means of working for yet another day. 

It's been over 10 weeks since it broke down in France, and we're going back on Saturday to complete our WWI battlefield tour and visit Crécy (still had unused Eurotunnel tickets). Truth is I don't trust the van to do it, but we don't have much of a choice. Must be mad!

Mark


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## kirkpoore1 (22 Aug 2012)

Sounds like you need to leave it near one of those "traveler" camps y'all complain about, with the keys in it. 

By the way, does Fiat over there stand for the same thing it does over here--"Fix it again, Tony"?

Kirk


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## JakeS (22 Aug 2012)

kirkpoore1":33zhwf7a said:


> By the way, does Fiat over there stand for the same thing it does over here--"Fix it again, Tony"?



Nope.


Over here our mechanics have names like Dave or Johnny, so it's "Fix It Again Tomorrow".


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## Jonzjob (22 Aug 2012)

If that were mine I think that there would be a case of "it caught fire Mr Ins/man, 'onest, it were such a surprise :shock: :shock: It must have been another fuel leak?"

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :roll:


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## nanscombe (22 Aug 2012)

Dare we even mention AA European breakdown cover this time

... and don't forget your compulsory breathalysers.


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## Mark A (22 Aug 2012)

nanscombe":1dy244sq said:


> Dare we even mention AA European breakdown cover this time
> 
> ... and don't forget your compulsory breathalysers.


Done.

The only thing we don't have is the van...


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