# Using/storing green timber!



## gasmansteve (27 Sep 2007)

Hi all
So you`re driving along and notice the council felling some trees. Stop and tap them up for a log or two as a newbie wood turner what do you do with the timber then?. As someone who hates waste the thought of using freshly felled timber appeals but what to do with it then to make it usable for turning?.
I gather its possible to turn with it straight away but only partially and then finish off some months later when drying and shrinkage has finished. I also read that you can cut it up into short usable pieces and paint/wax(?) the ends to delay drying. I actually was given some logs many months ago and cut them up into shorter pieces didn`t seal the ends (stored in my garage) and every piece cracked nearly the whole length almost in half is that usual? Do certain woods dry differently to others?. A friend has since suggested waiting a year for every 1" of thickness??. Any advice gratefully received
Cheers
Steve


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## Stu in Tokyo (27 Sep 2007)

Well, I'm new here, but not other places, but, take my advice with a grain of salt, because, apparently, I'm a "Grade A silly person" :lol: 

Green timber is a joy to turn, messy, but such fun!

What I do is cut the pith out of it right away, to do this, I cut the log up into pieces slightly longer than it is thick, then I cut the piece in half, usually taking out a chunk in the middle that is about an inch wide, to remove the pith. MOST of the cracks you see in logs start at the pith, so removing it is a good idea, IMHO.

I then with either paint the ends of the piece, the end-grain, with some sort of sealant, I find that an old can of latex paint works well, but put two coats on. If you can buy the green wood sealer, which is a wax emulsion, that it good too, but what I've found works great and is dirt cheap, is regular PVA glue, the white carpenters stuff. Mix it 1/3 water to 2/3 glue. I heat up the water (NOT boiling hot) to ease the mixing of the water and glue, then I paint the end grain of the wood to seal it, or at least slow the rate of drying down, as the end grain dries fast, compared to the side grain. I usually put two coats on the wood.

When I can find the time, I rough turn the blank on the lathe to a bowl like shape, I the either bury it in a box/bag of fresh green shavings and leave it for 3 to 6 months, or I sink the blank it a bucket of DNA (Denatured Alcohol) this drives out the water, replacing it with DNA in the wood, then after 24 hours or so, I remove the blank, and cover the outside of the blank with thick brown paper, like a grocery bag, or several layers of newspaper. I then cut a hole in the top side of the bowl, to allow evaporation of the DNA. You want the inside of the bowl to dry a bit faster than the outside. I usually put the drying blank on the shelf for at least 2 months, closer to 3 months.

That is how I do it, your mileage may vary.

Be very careful working around sharp tools, power tools, and the DNA, always wear eye protection, and hearing protection when needed (I flip the lights on in my Dungeon, put on my safety glasses, THEN my apron, as I once flipped the string of my apron up and into my eye somehow when putting my apron on, told you I was a grad A silly person :lol: 

I hope this helps.

Cheers!


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## greybeard (27 Sep 2007)

Hi gasman

Stu's done a good round-up there - search this forum for wood drying and you'll discover it's a topic that invites almost as many viewpoints, comments and opinions as "the best way to sharpen...."! (that's actually a lie - nothing else ever fires up the contributor spirit anything like a good sharpening 'debate'!).

The principles are to take the pith (ha ha) out if possible, to slow the end drying (wax, paint, etc etc, anything goes, don't de-bark (just speeds up the drying too much!), and of course be patient!
An inch a year is about right - but as an impatient newbie turner.....phooie! Put some down, so to speak, but get on with some practice. 

As Stu says, green is messy but fun. Sap etc flies everywhere, and it is amazingly wet! Fine finishing is seldom an option with green cos it is so wet. But it's a lot easier to turn, and you can practice with a clearer conscience on wood that's free! 

And don't be afraid to try some small stuff - sometimes called "branch turning". Those bits that are too small to split, 2/3/4 inches cross-section. Make a mushroom or two - fine to stick in the garden!


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## jpt (28 Sep 2007)

HI Stu

Missed your input at the creek.

Hows the DVR, still got it or have you upgraded again?

john


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## CHJ (28 Sep 2007)

Welcome to the forum *Stuart*, will be great to have your input on the turning section, no doubt those members elsewhere of the Clamp Collecting persuasion will also appreciate your input.


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## Stu in Tokyo (28 Sep 2007)

As GB says, turning green is fun, in fact, I'd say it is just about the MOST fun you can have on a lathe  

Mushrooms are a blast, I love doing them out of branch pieces about 3" in diameter, quick, and easy, and most people love them.

Hi John, thanks for the "Hello".

I've still got the DVR, I did buy the extension bed, should have done that a while ago, sure makes working on the lathe a lot more fun, you can easily push the tail stock way down the end and not bump your elbow into it :roll: 

I recently got the Nova Titan chuck, man what a monster! :shock: 

Should be able to turn my own telephone poles :lol: 

Hey Chas, how you keeping?

Thanks for the welcome! 8)


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## TEP (28 Sep 2007)

Hi *Steve*, it's all been said really. As an addition if like me you can get a reasonably regular supply of green timber turn some wet and thin, cut the rest into blanks and seal the ends really well. Store these away and continue looking for timber doing the same. After a year or two you will have a continuous supply of seasoned turning wood.

The only hassle is you have to keep up the search for timber to replace what you use.


Welcome to the forum *Stu*. Look forward to sharing some tips with you.


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## Stu in Tokyo (28 Sep 2007)

TEP":3e9lkd6x said:


> ............The only hassle is you have to keep up the search for timber to replace what you use.



Well that and cleaning up the HUGE mess my lathe keeps making in my Dungeon :roll: 

Thanks for the Welcome TEP!


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## CHJ (28 Sep 2007)

Stu in Tokyo":1jgx5kuj said:


> Hey Chas, how you keeping?


Busy :lol:


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## Stu in Tokyo (28 Sep 2007)

That is good Chas, very good!  

Steve, here is a little pictorial of how I process my blanks......


> *Processing Blanks for Woodturningg*
> .......or how to make long round things into short round things
> 
> 
> ...



Just a note here, I'm very well aware of the inherent dangers of running noisy sharp spinning and or cutting things near parts of my body that I would like to hang on to, I take every precaution I can think of, within reason, and I am careful, but I would NEVER recommend anyone else emulate what I do, as I'm a Grade "A" silly person and not be be trusted :wink: 

I just hope that this can give people an idea of ways to process your blanks so you have lots of free wood to turn. I guess if you want to be really really safe, you could buy all of your blanks preprocessed, heck, don't even drive to the shop to buy them, have them delivered by DHL or which ever courier you prefer, and pay by credit card, much safer than handling cash, you know how many germs are on cash :shock: 

Cheers! :lol:


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## gasmansteve (28 Sep 2007)

Thanks everyone for the help and advice, very useful to newbie.
Big thanks for the pictorial guide Stu. That looks one mother of a bandsaw, don`t think I could get that in the house never mind the workshop :shock: .
Cheers
Steve


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## Stu in Tokyo (28 Sep 2007)

You are welcome Steve, I hope it is of some use to you.

The bandsaw in the pictorial is a saw I rescued from the scrap heap, and gave new life to. I call it "Big Blue" but it is a Hitachi B601, built in the late 60's.

It is not that big really.............





.....Remember, this is Japan  

I really have to laugh, as I've been told by many a "Online" expert that the wheels are too small in diameter to be running a blade that wide, well, I can slice 12" tall veneer that is consistently 1mm thick not that there is much use for 1mm thick veneer, I'd slice it much thicker to do any glue ups, just because of sanding, but it can do it no problem, so I guess I'll put my faith in the engineers at Hitachi instead of the various "Online" experts who tell me it cannot work  

BTW, I'd never suggest that anyone try to cut veneer as thin as 1mm, you could get seriously injured.

Cheers!


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## woody67 (28 Sep 2007)

*Welcome Stu* - I'm a turnin' virgin, so looking forward to *loads *of advice from the bearded wonder! :wink: 

Woody


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## Stu in Tokyo (29 Sep 2007)

Hi Woody!

I've only had my DVR since June of 2006, so I'm not an old hand at this by any stretch of the imagination, but I'll gladly share anything I have learned along the way!

Cheers!


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## Paul.J (29 Sep 2007)

Steve.
I think it's all been said.
What i'm trying to do as others are as well i presume is to try and keep a good supply of timber to replace what you use.But,i'm finding the timber but am quickly running out of storage space. :roll: 

Welcome Stu.  
Good piccys.Cracking bandsaw.

Paul.J.


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## Stu in Tokyo (29 Sep 2007)

Thanks Paul!


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## Bodrighy (29 Sep 2007)

Paul.J":2h431k3p said:


> Steve.
> I think it's all been said.
> What i'm trying to do as others are as well i presume is to try and keep a good supply of timber to replace what you use.But,i'm finding the timber but am quickly running out of storage space. :roll:
> 
> ...



If you turn the speed up on your posh new lathe you can turn faster and perhaps get through the wood qhicker :lol: 

Pete


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## Paul.J (29 Sep 2007)

*Bodrighy wrote*
If you turn the speed up on your posh new lathe you can turn faster and perhaps get through the wood qhicker 
Aaar but Pete it's not how fast i or the lathe go,it's how slow the green timber takes to dry out :roll: 
Good to see you back up and running/typing as well Pete.
Paul.J.


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## gasmansteve (29 Sep 2007)

I recently tried turning what I thought was a pretty good attempt for a goblet. This was with some recently felled Lime (I think) I turned the goblet and left it for a few days and went back to my workshop only to find my pride and joy had split from the base to half way up the stem  . This prompted my post in the first place. I noticed that Stu planned to turn bowls cut at right angles to the grain as he plotted them on the trunk, is this preferable to blanks cut end grain ie the pith in the middle??.What I mean to say is if I have a trunk 10" in diameter and just cut it to length is it ok to turn a blank cut like this?Which is the better for drying?.
Cheers
Steve


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## CHJ (29 Sep 2007)

Steve, as a newcomer to turning you would be advised to always split your logs through the core and use the two halves, and with most woods discard the centre inch or so which is where the splits are most likely to start.

Something akin to This.

Endgrain turnings done green need to be turned thin, especially in the centre base area if you are to have any chance of them not splitting, this will inevitably lead to distortion of the shape as it dries as the wood moves, hopefully without enough stress to cause a split.


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## gasmansteve (29 Sep 2007)

Thanks for that Chas, I wasn`t aware that green end grain cut timber had to be cut thin?. I read one article in Woodturning were the guy partially turned a `green` bowl and left it with the wall of the bowl an inch thick stating that would prevent it from splitting before he could finish it a few months later. Would this still be the case regardless of how the blank is cut ie end grain or not?.
Steve


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## Stu in Tokyo (29 Sep 2007)

Steve, we seem to be having a terminology problem here.  

You will have endgrain in any piece, that is the way it goes, the problem of splitting usually comes from the pith, with is at the VERY center of the log, this is usually cut out of the blanks, like I showed. That being said, there are some who will turn hollow forms (HFs) and do so in such a way that leaves the pith in place, but, as Chas has stated, these HFs are turned thin, and as they dry the usually move or warp, which can be quite attractive, or if the piece splits, a real drag.

It also depends on the wood, some woods, most notably fruit woods, Apple, Cherry, Pear etc seem to split no matter what you do, heck, when I get some pieces of it, I do my usual thing, then I toss salt over each shoulder three times, rub the ash of a good Cuban cigar around the piece and stomp on some dried chicken bones a few times, then I put the pieces on the shelf and wait......... sometimes I get lucky, other times I get very interesting firewood :lol: 

I'd suggest that you start with bowls, and that you cut the pith out, this will make your life a lot easier, learn to crawl, then walk, then walk fast, then, maybe, run :wink: :lol: 

I'm still crawling, but it's a fast crawl  

Cheers!


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## CHJ (29 Sep 2007)

Steve, these are the basic steps I take to deal with green wood, it is not the only way but it works for me.












Split the logs to reduce risk of splitting whilst drying (remove pith/core) and seal ends to slow down moisture lost from end grain.
















Rough turn green blanks asap to a thickness that will allow for cross grain shrinkage, this depends on wood species but allow something like 1cm in 10cm to start with as minimum.
















Wrap outer surface in several layers of paper and put on one side with air circulation to dry out, in my north facing conservatory this takes about 18 days but slower is better if you want to avoid splitting so don't push for rapid drying until you no your location.






Once dry you can store them until such time as you can get round to completing them.


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## gasmansteve (30 Sep 2007)

Sorry for the delay in replying.
Interesting what you say about cutting out the pith when using green wood. Does this also apply if using green wood for say a vase?. A bit awkward if using a small branch and not a part of the trunk. Sorry if all this is a bit basic but I`ve quite got the turning `bug` and would like to try and do the best I can at it.
Cheers
Steve


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## CHJ (30 Sep 2007)

gasmansteve":231dkls4 said:


> ....Does this also apply if using green wood for say a vase?. A bit awkward if using a small branch and not a part of the trunk. ....



Obviously if you are using the whole trunk diameter and boring into the end grain it is impossible not to use the pith/core portion, it is this central area left in the base where splits are likely to occur most.

Some people overcome this by removing the central core of the base, say 20-30mm diameter and fitting a false plug of sound wood. It is not visible in use and considerably reduces the risk of the piece splitting.


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## gasmansteve (30 Sep 2007)

Cheers for that Chas. I used to have this romantic notion of wandering through woods,finding logs taking them home and turning them into vases,bowls etc. A wee bit more to it I gather now :wink: .
Nice collection of blanks BTW.
Thanks again
Steve


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## Bodrighy (30 Sep 2007)

gasmansteve":33x11wro said:


> Cheers for that Chas. I used to have this romantic notion of wandering through woods,finding logs taking them home and turning them into vases,bowls etc. A wee bit more to it I gather now :wink: .
> Nice collection of blanks BTW.
> Thanks again
> Steve



A large percentage of the wood that I use is found. I have only bought a few pieces and they were offcuts at wood fests etc. You _can_ 'wander through the woods finding logs.' If they have been lying around for a good while the sap is all gone and they tend to dry evenly and quickly in my experience. You also have the fun of never knowing what you will find inside as you turn (including little scuttling things :lol It's a very good source of wood for small turnings as well. The tips given by Chas and the others are important for freshly felled wood but don't always need to be applied for the found wood in my experience.

Pete


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## Losos (1 Oct 2007)

Stu in Tokyo":qgx847r3 said:


> I just hope that this can give people an idea of ways to process your blanks so you have lots of free wood to turn. I guess if you want to be really really safe, you could buy all of your blanks preprocessed, heck, don't even drive to the shop to buy them, have them delivered by DHL or which ever courier you prefer, and pay by credit card, much safer than handling cash, you know how many germs are on cash :shock:
> 
> Cheers! :lol:



Great pictorial, too much for me to take in one go, (being a newby in the turning game) so I'll have to come back and read it all again.

Welcome to the forum, I think we need people like you on here  

I've been struggling with some green wood from a walnut tree that blew down on our property recently


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## Bodrighy (1 Oct 2007)

Losos":1ivog5kj said:


> I've been struggling with some green wood from a walnut tree that blew down on our property recently



Lucky *** I wish it had blown down onto mine :mrgreen: I love walnut. 

Pete


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## Stu in Tokyo (2 Oct 2007)

Thanks Losos!

Lucky for sure to get some walnut, but be real careful, lots of guys develop allergies to the dust from walnut, I've not, but I wear my powered respirator and run my cyclone when I work walnut, no way I want to have an allergy to it, as it is such nice stuff to turn!  

Cheers!


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