# Table saw question?



## Jinx (5 Nov 2013)

Hi - New to the Forum and new to woodworking. I recently bought my first table saw and realised I needed a crosscut sled. But the make is Erbauer (from Screwfix) and on You Tube all the videos have tables with u shaped grooves making a sled runner fairly easy to make a good fit. But Erbauer have an upsidedown T shaped groove (not sure how to describe this better) does anyone know what to do? Should I grind off the Tee edges? or is there some other solution others have used? Regards, Jinx


----------



## marcros (5 Nov 2013)

No, either make something to fit the T, or ignore the cross of the T and use the stalk. You may find that a short strip at the end of the cross piece is enough to use the T- the incra gauges work like that- they have a washer on. Grinding the t edges off will be a larger task than it sounds.


----------



## Grahamshed (5 Nov 2013)

I would tend to look on the T as more of an advantage than otherwise.


----------



## Mike.C (5 Nov 2013)

Jinx":1ye2zffe said:


> Hi - New to the Forum and new to woodworking. I recently bought my first table saw and realised I needed a crosscut sled. But the make is Erbauer (from Screwfix) and on You Tube all the videos have tables with u shaped grooves making a sled runner fairly easy to make a good fit. But Erbauer have an upsidedown T shaped groove (not sure how to describe this better) does anyone know what to do? Should I grind off the Tee edges? or is there some other solution others have used? Regards, Jinx



There is no need. As Marcros says just ignore the top of the T it will not effect the sliding action. On the other hand Graham has hit the nail on the head when he states that the T shape has an advantage because it stops a mitre gauge or in your case sled from lifting up as you slide it along the slots. So if you are going to machine the runners I would personally include the T shape.

Cheers

Mike


----------



## Jinx (5 Nov 2013)

The make, Erbauer is a budget model so the T section is not along the whole length - it has been made by creating T lugs at 6" spaces along the length, so there are about 3 or 4, which is why I thought about grinding them off. It would mean I lose the anti lifting action it provides though, but since the majority, and the more expensive models don't have this I thought it might not really matter. And as the T is made from spaced lugs, I cannot use stalk of the T as Macros suggested (thank-you Macros for the idea though its just my description was not full enough). So its a bit of a problem to get around. Also as a newbie I am also significantly limited by skill too!!

Thanks for your answers. Jinx


----------



## marcros (5 Nov 2013)

A pic or two may help.


----------



## Steve Maskery (8 Nov 2013)

Yes, the T can be an advantage.
You do not need to machine the runner profile to match the T, although there is no reason why you can't if you want that much work. Just make the runner to fit the slot from the top.
If you want your sled (or any other accessory you make to fit the slot) not to tip, you can screw a washer to the far end of the runners. That will run in the bottom of the and secure the sled in place.
S


----------



## Eric The Viking (9 Nov 2013)

There is the 'lateral thinking' approach too: if the sides of the table are parallel to each other and to the blade, make your sled big enough to fit over the top altogether, and allow the blade to cut a slot in the middle. That way you don't need to worry about what sounds quite an odd arrangement for the slots.

There are some good examples of this design I've seen, some of which are on the internet. Google "crosscut sled" and see what turns up (try Google images).

E.


----------



## Jinx (11 Nov 2013)

Great advice everyone = thank-you. E, I think your suggestion fits my saws needs and especially my WW limitations best thanks and I'll give it a go, Jinx


----------



## Flynnwood (11 Nov 2013)

Eric The Viking":1yq28wa9 said:


> There is the 'lateral thinking' approach too: if the sides of the table are parallel to each other and to the blade, make your sled big enough to fit over the top altogether, and allow the blade to cut a slot in the middle. That way you don't need to worry about what sounds quite an odd arrangement for the slots.
> 
> There are some good examples of this design I've seen, some of which are on the internet. Google "crosscut sled" and see what turns up (try Google images).
> 
> E.




Along those lines I came across this simple idea, but for a bandsaw (uses the sides of the table, aligned to the blade).

1 min 34 secs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRxDY_tpXWQ


----------



## Wood Monkey (12 Nov 2013)

Hi Jinx

I've got a scheppach TS2500Ci and that also has T-slots. I've made several sleds large and small that run in the T-Slots. I've made 1 piece and 2-piece T-runners and found both to equally effective. The 2 piece are much easier to make, but fiddly to fit first time. Last time I made some I made spares as I'm a bit of a sled junkie.

I usually use hardwood to make them and I've also experimented with nylon sheets but found the advantages didn't outweigh the cost and extra working difficulties.

My next experiment is going to be runners with captive nylon washers that can be inserted in the slot and then tightened from the top to remove any movement.

I'll try and get some pictures up if I get home at a reasonable time tonight.

Jon


----------



## carlb40 (18 Dec 2013)

Sounds like it may be a similar groove to the Axi TS200 which i have. I never bothered with the 'T' when doing my sled. I just made a normal bar to fit the main groove.


----------



## RWoody (26 Jan 2014)

Yet another very interesting thread. I like the ideas and creative thinking here. I'm in a similar position, though I'm now thinking that the solution lay with a 'bigger' idea, is it were, for I also wish to increase the surface area of both my bandsaw and table saw beds. 

After much thought, and searching around, I now feel I have a solution, and it's similar to what I had in mind _(adding a ply or MDF board over the whole cutting table/bed surface)_ but with an ingenious, but so simple twist to things. I didn't think of what the guy in this video has done, but now I see it, it makes perfect sense, and solves many problems at once! This is what I'm going to do, and it also means I can purchase just 1 Incra V127 mitre guide, for I'll make up a second wooden board base for the table saw too, not just my bandsaw. I can achieve larger work surfaces, cut guide channels for the Incra mitre gauge to fit exactly, and improve the existing fence set up I have at the same time.

However, I would add yet another dimension to this solution, in the form of a mitre guide slot of the same dimensions to fit the Incra mitre guide, but 90 degrees to the one in this video, thereby having one in the traditional direction as well as that 90 degrees to it. I'd then be able to cut narrow boards or pieces of wood, using the guide channel in the traditional front-to-back fashion. But for most other work, with the 90 degrees to the blade channel, I'd be able to facilitate greater flexibility to my wood-cutting options.

Here is a YouTube video, showing the American Woodworker magazine editor's own design, in this 12-min video, showing this excellent and simple design solution. It sort of makes one wonder why the hell he didn't think of it himself! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpbwH9510MY 

I must congratulate this forum hosts and contributors for creating such a valuable resource for us woody _(and 'metally')_ people :0) Much appreciated - and especially the professional, courteous manner of all the posts from people I've seen so far. Good on you all.


----------



## Eric The Viking (26 Jan 2014)

Neat idea, but with one caveat: It's not necessary to put up with any bandsaw drift. look at Steve Maskery's videos for how to set up to eliminate drift pretty much altogether - makes life much easier.


----------



## RWoody (26 Jan 2014)

I've never really understood what all the fuss about bandsaw drift is, for if you've set up your machine properly, it just doesn't happen anyway. While I respect Steve Maskery and doubtless many people would benefit from his DVDs _(and I don't want to take any business away from him)_, but it's not essential for one really to buy any instructional video material if you're willing to spend time searching for stuff on the 'net, especially from YouTube or DailyMotion etc. There is sufficient material out there to set up your bandsaw; it's pretty straightforward! Little things like making sure the blade runs on the centre of the wheels, the right tension, decent blades _(like the excellent Tuff Saw ones)_, blade guide pads being ultra close to the bade itself _(but behind the blade gullets)_, the bearing wheels behind the back of the blade almost touching when not cutting, and importantly having the height arm _(I'm not sure of the proper name for it, off the top of my head at this moment)_ at only 1/4-1/2" or so above the wood surface you're cutting. Lastly, not to 'push' too hard when cutting, but let the saw do the work, and just take that bit longer to cut.

Anyway, that YouTube clip I posted really does provide a simple, flexible solution to the dilemma I face. Now I can speak to Peter Sefton from The Woodworkers Workshop _(a member of this forum)_. His/their site is decent and their prices very fair, with good images of the products. I'll order the Incra V120 from them. I'm pretty impressed with the quality and precision of the Incra stuff. I'm tempted by one of their rules too, as they have little laser-drilled holes at each and every millimetre, through which a sharp pencil point can protrude, to mark etc. What lasers have enabled is pretty impressive, as it's so accurate and quick for the makers to create.

Anyway, all very interesting stuff.


----------



## Eric The Viking (26 Jan 2014)

Bandsaws do need setting up properly. 

There are some 'entertaining' YouTube videos done by people who evidently either have no idea or just got lucky and think they thus know how it should be done. Of course you can work it all out from first principles, but it helps to have the right information to hand. How can you tell, for example, you have the 'right' tension? My 'tension meter' isn't that at all - it's a stretch meter, and entertainingly inaccurate at that.

Anyway, I think there's a lot of untrustworthy advice and the good stuff is hard to find.

E.


----------



## RWoody (26 Jan 2014)

Indeed, they do need to be set up correctly. I wasn't saying otherwise, or advocating any old advice. Due diligence - as with anything - is part and parcel of whatever it is you are trying to do or achieve. Maybe some people struggle, others don't so much. It very much depends on one's abilities to sort the wheat from the chaff; and of course, common sense goes a long way! Well, it's not as 'common' as it once was nowadays, it seems.

Anyway, when I first acquired my bandsaw, an old Mini Max Pro 32 _(from the late 70s early 80s I think)_ it hadn't been in use for a good many years, didn't have a blade fitted, and the blade guard was hanging off _(I'm not sure why it's called merely a blade guard, as its function is more than that)_ so the whole thing I had to set up from the word go. Since doing this it's performed faultlessly, and the Tuff Saw blades I opted for I'm very pleased and impressed with. As I say, this is an important aspect, not to be underestimated. 

This Mini Max is only a small machine, but it's head on shoulders better than the Fox one I had, which they claimed would cut wood up to 6" thick. Well, that was a joke, for it struggled with wood far thinner than this, and would slow down under the least amount of pressure. It was very underpowered, and after changing one of the drive pulleys _(it was slightly eccentric, so introduced rather too much wobble/vibration)_ it improved, but it still wasn't up to much. So I decided to source an older, more solid machine, and the one I have has the advantage of being direct drive as opposed to belt driven, so the motor spindle doesn't spin as fast to achieve the same blade speed, and hence no pulley vibration either.

All I can say is, I learned much from that initial experience, and what a better quality machine can do, which also focussed my attention on getting the thing properly set up - hence my Internet searches to help. There is some good advice out there, as well as bad, as you say. But one just needs to apply a bit of common sense and evaluate accordingly ..........though, on a side note, the disadvantage with buying older machines is weight, as far as moving them around goes. But when using, a solid machine is more reassuring to use. I really struggled to lift my Mini max, even though small, to get it into the workshop, and I'm no small guy, at over 6' 4". I don't have the luxury of a fork lift to shift stuff around


----------



## woodndrum (29 Jan 2014)

RWoody when you look at the ruler, think on and consider as I did. The protractor and the short rule on a t-square cover most of not all marking out. Expensive yes, but exactly right for the job.


----------



## RWoody (29 Jan 2014)

Woodndrum, yes in fact since I wrote that comment I too have considered the protractor and T-square, instead of a rule. As you say, this will cover many aspects. So true. I think it's why I enjoy 'reading' catalogues, as I always try to think in terms of how the tools will be used; how I'd be able to facilitate using them and incorporating it into the jobs I'll be doing. I'd rather have fewer decent quality tools that are versatile and a pleasure to use, as opposed to more, cheaper ones, which aren't as nice to use, aren't always as accurate and don't last long either. I'm sure this captures the sentiment of most professional trades people.

Thanks for mentioning it though. 

Funnily enough my Incra V120 arrived today. I sadly won't have time to start making up the wooden jigs into which it'll fit yet though, as I'm on a course tomorrow; and then next week I'm away, for the whole week. So forgive me if there are any further comments for me to reply to. My apologies in advance to all of you.


----------

