# New workbench tail vice help needed



## noddy67 (18 Jan 2007)

Hello all. I have been reading this site for many months now and have found it hugely helpful. 
I have recently taken delivery of some beech for a workbench I want too build and I have a question about a possible use of the Veritas Twin-Screw Vice as an end Vice. 

I want to try and combine the look and feel of a traditional tail end vice with the full width and non racking functionality of the Veritas twin screw vice, also enabling me to obtain the benefits of more rows of dog holes (somewhat similar to Lon Schleining's Bench on page 158 of his excellent Workbench book).

I have enclosed an extremely poor sketchup attempt to try and explain myself better.

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_p ... o=90355636

My question is whether anyone can see any reason why this might not work (obviously assuming the dog holes avoid the vice srews etc).

Many thanks in advance for any help.


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## Philly (18 Jan 2007)

Hi Noddy
I can't see the photo- it says I'm not logged in.
Philly


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## Anonymous (18 Jan 2007)

Philly":3ij404d7 said:


> Hi Noddy
> I can't see the photo- it says I'm not logged in.
> Philly



Same here


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## noddy67 (19 Jan 2007)

Thanks guys. I have modified it and it should work now...apologies teething problems.


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## Paul Chapman (19 Jan 2007)

Hi Noddy,

I wonder whether, by combining the features of two different styles of vice, you will simply making it too complicated for very little benefit? I would think that you will still need some sort of guide piece along which the front of the 'L' piece would ride, which could risk binding. I think I would tend to go for one style or the other.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## noddy67 (26 Jan 2007)

Thanks for your thoughts guys. Anyone else have any experience with the Veritas twin screw vice?


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## SketchUp Guru (26 Jan 2007)

I don't have a lot of experience with the Veritas Twin Screw Vise but a couple of thoughts come to mind with your idea. On the surface I like it but with a little more thought I can see a big potential problem. The standard tail vise is normally built so the jaw runs on a steel runner to keep it from racking. The Twin Screw Vise is designed so that it can be racked a little if needed. I could see combining them causing problems.

If you want both sorts of vises, why not put them on opposite ends of the bench? Put the Twin Screw Vise on the other end with the face vise. Make the Twin Screw's movable jaw short enough to allow clearance at the face vise.

I made a quickie modification to a workbench I drew some time ago.


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## Anonymous (26 Jan 2007)

Noddy

I am just building the tail vice for the bench I just made which is here


I read a lot about benches and in the recent Fine Woodworking review of benches they were not impressed at all with the veritas twin screw vice. I think they said it was hard to set up and kept racking. They also said it was "weird, stiff and jerky". When they got it they could not make it work with only 1 handle _and this bench was made by veritas themselves_

Anyway, I did not find a single glowing report on it and so opted for more traditional vice.


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## SketchUp Guru (26 Jan 2007)

Tony":10pya17l said:


> Noddy
> 
> I am just building the tail vice for the bench I just made which is here



Tony, you aren't fooling anyone. That ain't a bench. It's too nice to be a bench. That's going to go in your house as a sofa table isn't it?


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## noddy67 (26 Jan 2007)

Gents, thanks for your replies. A few questions if I may.

Tony, 

Great to look through your photos. I am about a month behind you I suspect. I am just building the two end frames for the base and next job is to mill the stock for the stretchers.

Questions:

1. Which issue of fine woodworking was it that mentioned the veritas vice?
2. You cut the mortices at a 5 degree angle. Do you think that is totally necessary (in other words I haven't done it and plan to use wedged tenons).
3. The process of using a draw bore. Can you please talk me through the physical steps involved in ensuring the tenon hole is offset by the correct amount?
5. When you clamped up the base how did you span the length of the stretchers? In one of the pictures it looks like you hooked a couple of clamps together. Is that correct? I dont have clamps long enough to span the 1.7m or so that is required. Do you have any experience of using and joining pipe clamps? 
6. Isn't the veritas large shoulder plane one of the most pleasurable tools to use?

Dave R,
Many thanks for the sketchup tutorials. I have spent the last couple of weeks going back through most of them and they have been invaluable to my learning curve. I am currently half way through using sketchup for the workbench I am building. 
A question on sketchup if I may. When putting a stopped chamfer on say four sides of a table leg, is there a quick way of doing it rather than using constructions lines around the four sides of the legs and at both ends of the chamfer? I managed to do it but it was pretty laborious.

My intention was to use some for of runner on the tail vice (either steel or wood) to prevent it racking, and couple that with the veritas twin screw vice used in a non-racked way (if that makes sense). I suppose my motivation is principally an aesthetic one. I really like the functionality of the tail vice but would prefer that its end spans the whole of the vice, although after reading some of the comments I guess I may just have to live with it in its traditional form.

Thanks again for your help


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## Alf (26 Jan 2007)

Wiley Horne wrote a detailed article on the Veritas twin screw vice (vise) here fwiw. Given that particular vice is well-known for being choosy about how it's fitted I'd be surprised if you found a 100% glowing report on it, but there seem to be many happy owners as far as I can tell.

Also, fwiw, and I'm not suggesting anything and I certainly don't know anything, but LV no longer advertise in FWW AFAIK and there was a certain amount of fallout over their publishing a reader tip that violated an LV patent. 

Cheers, Alf

Not paid to defend LV products; just to write garbage for the newsletter in a strictly freelance capacity.


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## Jake (26 Jan 2007)

I've got a homebrewed twin screw vice, from from two record 53s and some industrial sprockets and chain. I think they are better suited to being face vices, really. More advantage in having the gap between the vice screws as a face vice - I can't see where you'd use it on the end of a bench. 

There are other ways of preventing racking, not that the Veritas does that anyway from what others are saying. With four rails to add to the two screws, mine won't rack. Too much hardware for the end of a bench, though.


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## Anonymous (26 Jan 2007)

Hi Noddy

happy to help if I can



noddy67":1yi676oc said:


> Questions:
> 
> 1. Which issue of fine woodworking was it that mentioned the veritas vice?



Tools and shops edition 2007. They tested 8 expensive benches. You should be able to find it as a PDF on their website



> 2. You cut the mortises at a 5 degree angle. Do you think that is totally necessary (in other words I haven't done it and plan to use wedged tenons).



Well, the whole point of using wedged tenons is to get a better and stronger joint. Without the 5 degree angle in the mortise, it is still effectively a well fitted tenon. 
With the 5 degree cut, it is effectively a captured dovetail and you will never get it apart because the wedges are glued into the tenon nice and tightly and the tenon is effectively one piece of tapered wood in a tapered hole. 
I'm sure others will argue the toss, but I wouldn't use wedged tenons without a tapered mortise.

It is really easy and quick to do if you use a guide block. Took about 2 minutes per mortise side.



> 3. The process of using a draw bore. Can you please talk me through the physical steps involved in ensuring the tenon hole is offset by the correct amount?



I drilled the lower cross piece (piece with feet on) witha 10mm brad point bit first and then inserted the tenon fully home. I pushed the brad point drill bit back into the hole into the hole and the point made a small mark on the tenon.
I then removed the tenon and set the brad point of the drill about 2mm towards the shoulder. All the drilling was on my drill press to ensure it was perpendicular to the pieces.
I made a dowel by running a piece of wood through a normal engineering nut M10 in this case) which I drilled out 10mm first. I made a couple of cuts about 1mm deep across the nut face sand then drove the wood through it with my battery drill.
I sharpened a point on the dowel, put glue on and pounded it in with a mallet.



> 5. When you clamped up the base how did you span the length of the stretchers? In one of the pictures it looks like you hooked a couple of clamps together. Is that correct? I don't have clamps long enough to span the 1.7m or so that is required. Do you have any experience of using and joining pipe clamps?



Yep, hooked a couple of clamps together. Doesn't need much pressure. i only clamped it while I was driving home the wedges - once they are in, the clamps are redundant.
Never used pipe clamps


> 6. Isn't the veritas large shoulder plane one of the most pleasurable tools to use?


Now that cannot be argued with by anyone who has tried one  Superb tool. I love it!!


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