# Blade size in chop saw?



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

I've a Makita chop saw, 305 x 30 is the normal (wood) blade size.
Saxton offer a well priced 250 x 30 metal blade.
I want to saw through a decent chunk of steel (rly line pce).
Cutting edge will be slower (no bad thing?).

Any disadvantages known please?


----------



## Myfordman (17 Jun 2021)

Will it cut through close to the fence? Make a cardboard one and see how far it goes into the slot.
Apart from that is the machine even vaguely designed for steel.
Angle grinder would perhaps be better?


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Myfordman said:


> Will it cut through close to the fence? Make a cardboard one and see how far it goes into the slot.
> Apart from that is the machine even vaguely designed for steel.
> Angle grinder would perhaps be better?


It has the sliders, hence going 'back' to the fence is not an issue.
No, designed for wood, but blades for metal are available - my thoughts (guesses), the slower tip
speed would help rather than hinder (even if the job took longer?)
I like the 'paper' blade - would check out the depth, though turning it would not be a problem,
darned thing weighs a ton  

ps
Just reading your hacksaw piece - enlightening, thanks.


----------



## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

You would be better off with the Makita cut off saw that is designed to cut metal rather than risk damage to your woodworking saw.



https://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/makita-lw1401s-355mm-14-portable-cut-off-saw?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5auGBhDEARIsAFyNm9FCegi-7f3dqcXkzqB_rARaMKtRmJTaCd-06x7enB6EvLwAc7l18P0aArTaEALw_wcB



or a more expensive version





__





Makita LC1230N 110v 305mm TCT Metal Cutting Cut Off Saw


Tools, power tools, hand tools, electrical, plumbing supplies, ffx tools, FFX, Makita LC1230_ 110v 305mm TCT Metal Cutting Cut Off Saw




www.ffx.co.uk


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Agree @Spectric - but not worth it for a one off job? 
I can't see damage to the saw unless it is down to my use?


----------



## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> I can't see damage to the saw unless it is down to my use?


What can cause the damage is the hot metal sparks that will melt and stick to the plastic strips each side of the blade and then you need to really clean it otherwise you will get bits of metal in your wood.

Do you have a 9 inch grinder, that would be one solution otherwise you may need to spend some time with a decent hacksaw, using a little cutting lube.


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Point taken about 'damage' to saw parts - tks. 
No, and a 4.5" which isn't up to the job.
I guess I'm looking at a local machine shop.


----------



## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

How big is this item? and is it just plain steel or iron?


----------



## TRITON (17 Jun 2021)

For metal- depending on the shape or size of it is best cut using a specific metal saw.

I'd a number of sleeves to cut in 2mm thick brass tubing, at about 25mm diameter. as sleeves for some door knob handles Tried the hacksaw and made a complete 4r5e of it, really bad, and im kind of used to cutting straight, but these were only fit for the bin.

I've an angle grinder and saw some info on YT about cheap cutting stands to hold the grinder, complete with adjustable vices and eventually bought one, though must say i was put off by how cheap they were and i associated cheap with nasty.

Night and day. The cuts, after a few to align were perfect, and the safety aspect (especially using a grinder) was well appreciated.
The stand cost me £15 on ebay new, of mass production but dont let that put you off, it is totally fit for purpose, makes the job a breeze and again as safe as houses.

Obviously there are limits to the sizes it can cut, but the fact it holds it straight and accurate is well worth buying.
You didnt say the size you need cut, but if its not too big, id recommend this stand, and although its for a 4 1/2", there will be something similar for a 9"


----------



## TRITON (17 Jun 2021)

Heres one, pretty much the same type for 180 and 230mm grinders.




__





wolfcraft 5018000 Cutting Stand for one-Hand Angle Grinders Ø 180 and 230 mm : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


Shop wolfcraft 5018000 Cutting Stand for one-Hand Angle Grinders Ø 180 and 230 mm. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.



www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

I will add that many years ago I lent a guy a reasonable quality mitre saw and just thought he would be cutting wood, got the saw back in a really sorry state and discovered that he had fitted a grinding wheel so that he could cut a load of bricks in half lengthwise. Luckily we came to a deal where he kept the saw and paid half towards a new one for me.


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Spectric said:


> How big is this item? and is it just plain steel or iron?


Std UK rail line. 6x4 with waist?


----------



## bp122 (17 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Std UK rail line. 6x4 with waist?


Maybe speak to a workshop with a metal cutting bandsaw?


----------



## Garden Shed Projects (17 Jun 2021)

You managed to get some rail line then. Where did you get it in the end?


----------



## RichardG (17 Jun 2021)

I know it sounds awful but don’t under estimate a new decent HSS blade in a hacksaw. Plan to do it over a number of sessions and take it slow and steady, l’ve cut several RSJ this way. To make it quicker you can use your 4.5 inch angle grinder to cut in from all sides as deep as you can and then finish off with a hacksaw.

The evolution mitre saws run slower and have a metal cutting blade, I kept my old one for such jobs, the metal cutting blade soon wears out and the hot swarf is horrible though, shame you‘re not closer you could have borrowed it.


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> You managed to get some rail line then. Where did you get it in the end?


ebay. Bit expensive and I had to pick it up (took pity on the postman ;-)


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

RichardG said:


> I know it sounds awful but don’t under estimate a new decent HSS blade in a hacksaw. Plan to do it over a number of sessions and take it slow and steady, l’ve cut several RSJ this way. To make it quicker you can use your 4.5 inch angle grinder to cut in from all sides as deep as you can and then finish off with a hacksaw.
> 
> The evolution mitre saws run slower and have a metal cutting blade, I kept my old one for such jobs, the metal cutting blade soon wears out and the hot swarf is horrible though, shame you‘re not closer you could have borrowed it.


Ahead of you  Just tried. 24 tpi blade, near new. as per @Myfordman ordered some decent 18tpi blades.
5 minutes did make a mark, though it 'sings' horribly! 
Wondering about 'a number of sessions', even if I nick it with the angle grinder (I think I'm even more frit than Myfordman  ) 
I guess I could try it, then ask the local workshop for a price.

Thanks for the suggestions folks.


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Wrap up. Email from Saxton, were wary of using a metal blade of lesser size, probably covering their rear,
but with concerns here, I'll not buy a blade.


----------



## Inspector (17 Jun 2021)

A suggestion. Look up water jet cutting services in your area. Some have the machines big enough to slice through the track in minutes and if you are making and anvil, cut the major shape at the same time. A plasma cutter might cut it as well.

Pete


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

Cost @Inspector - Not worth it to me?


----------



## Inspector (17 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Cost @Inspector - Not worth it to me?


 You don't know until you ask and they just might be reasonable to the point of costing less than the new blade you wanted especially if you are not in a hurry. They may also be unreasonable and want your first born. Up to you though.

Pete


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

I do now. £69 + VAT. As I said ;-)


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Wondering about 'a number of sessions', even if I nick it with the angle grinder (I think I'm even more frit than Myfordman  )
> I guess I could try it, then ask the local workshop for a price.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions folks.



Found out. One session and I've cut through 12mm with a 24 tpi blade!
A "few" more I think


----------



## RichardG (17 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Found out. One session and I've cut through 12mm with a 24 tpi blade!
> A "few" more I think



You need a session ale to go with it, the 3rd or 4th session will be feeling quite good  

More seriously could it have become hardened by use or age? Any merit in tempering or is it the current hardness you’re after?

ps. Don’t forget to try some cutting fluid, even with a hacksaw can make quite a difference.


----------



## pe2dave (17 Jun 2021)

RichardG said:


> More seriously could it have become hardened by use or age? Any merit in tempering or is it the current hardness you’re after?
> 
> ps. Don’t forget to try some cutting fluid, even with a hacksaw can make quite a difference.


From appearance it is used. Hardened? No idea. 
Had I cutting fluid, I'd use it Richard.


----------



## RichardG (17 Jun 2021)

What Grade of Steel is Railroad Track? Uses and Tips | Make it From Metal


----------



## RichardG (17 Jun 2021)

May be worth reposting this as “how to cut a railway track”.


----------



## Spectric (17 Jun 2021)

The track gangs use a large disc cutter that hooks onto the rail and gives them a nice clean cut ready for the thermal welding process. Going to be tough using a hacksaw!


----------



## Dave Moore (18 Jun 2021)

pe2dave said:


> Ahead of you  Just tried. 24 tpi blade, near new. as per @Myfordman ordered some decent 18tpi blades.
> 5 minutes did make a mark, though it 'sings' horribly!
> Wondering about 'a number of sessions', even if I nick it with the angle grinder (I think I'm even more frit than Myfordman  )
> I guess I could try it, then ask the local workshop for a price.
> ...


If you are using hacksaw there’s only one blade in my opinion to use. Sandvick blades are probably double the price but brilliant in use.


----------



## RichardG (18 Jun 2021)

And start at the bottom, apparently the top becomes case hardened and almost impossible to cut without the correct cutter, but is brittle so breaks clean.


----------



## pe2dave (18 Jun 2021)

RichardG said:


> And start at the bottom, apparently the top becomes case hardened and almost impossible to cut without the correct cutter, but is brittle so breaks clean.


At 1" per hour, I'm half way through the top - thought the psychology of 'easy bit last' would work Richard!


----------



## Fergie 307 (18 Jun 2021)

Obvious problem with using a wood saw is that it runs way too fast. You will just wreck the blade, and probably the saw as well. Just hire a 9inch grinder and buy a stainless type narrow cutting disc, it will go through it like butter.


----------



## Sandyn (18 Jun 2021)

Metal cutting blades normally have a lower max RPM, so wood saws are not really suitable. 

I have a Large SIP abrasive cut off saw, an Evolution rage metal saw and a 125mm angle grinder using Aldi 1mm cutting disks (11 for about £3). I use the angle grinder the most, even on thick metal. The blade is so thin, it is removing very little metal and cuts surprisingly well. The shape of a rail track would be problematic, but a new disk will cut about 35mm deep, so you might have to end up cutting a small bit in the middle with a hacksaw.


----------



## nickds1 (19 Jun 2021)

There is significant risk in using a wood chop saw for metal in that the motor and other electrics are not necessarily protected against ingress of conductive swarf.

Evolution and other multi-material saws have filters to prevent metal getting into the motor.

Don't go there. It's dangerous and could wreck your saw motor or worse.

Water jet (also known as "profile") cutting is excellent, but I would go to the local blacksmith or small engineering shop and pay them to do it with the right tools. Should only be a tenner or so and far far less painful than a hacksaw etc. What's your time worth?


----------



## pe2dave (19 Jun 2021)

@nickds1 @Sandyn @Fergie 307 see earlier comments re chop saw. Idea discarded.


----------



## Sideways (19 Jun 2021)

I wonder where your rail came from. British Steel used to make special rails out of work hardeneing steel for use inside stations - it could withstand the higher level of wear and tear experienced there.

Have to say, i'd just burn through a few cutting discs and flap disks and do it with the 5 inch angle grinder. I doubt there's much if any part of the section that you couldn't reach coming at it from all round.


----------



## pe2dave (19 Jun 2021)

Tried with my small grinder + cutting disk. To risk averse to continue. 
(Guess), it could be anything up to 100 years old? Didn't cut like 'hard' steel (sound etc)


----------

