# Scheppach plugs



## PokerG (3 Oct 2006)

Hi all, 

How do I plug my scheppach equipment into a standard UK 3 pin socket. My electrician says the shed rcd etc should be able to cope with the surge power generated by my tablesaw but I just need to find out how to plug it in. Round bit, square whole problem. 

Anyone help?

G


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## WellsWood (3 Oct 2006)

Hi G,
Which model saw? Larger ones may need a 16amp supply.

Cheers
Mark


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## ike (3 Oct 2006)

Hello G,

Although the motor is rated 2.2kW or so I believe, the _starting_ current is a bit high for a normal 13amp plug - could get a bit warm perhaps I don't know. Your best bet is your nearest electrical factor who can supply a 16A plug and wall socket (coded blue)for about a fiver or so.

(I forgot, + an inline socket for the extension lead to the machine) 

cheers,

Ike


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## PokerG (3 Oct 2006)

How do I wire it up?

I have 4 pieces of machinery that need wiring up, Dust Extractor, TableSaw, Planar/Thick and Drill Press. (For some reason the bandsaw doesnt use the round power thing that the others do)

Some will have a high startup current and although my RCD is supposed to work I just dont know. My electrician seemed to think it would.

But I dont think a 13amp fuse in the 3 prong UK plug would work. Anyone got any experience connecting them up?

As for the tablesaw it is the ts2500ci.

Do I just connect the round plug (that goes into the device) to a standard UK 3 pin plug? How hard are they to wire up?

G


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## RoyS (3 Oct 2006)

Hi G - I had exactly this problem with my Scheppach table saw (2500) and planer-thicknesser. I had my 'workshop' (garage) rewired to give plenty of sockets for my gear. The electrician assured me that 13A was ample for the TS and PT - he was wrong! - they each blew fuses almost every time I powered them on. I had the electrician come back and now have a 16A circuit for the 2 'big' machines and use 13 A for everything else.

Also, given the new-ish regulations, I am pretty certain that this is a job for an electrician and is now not permitted for the DIY-er; others will be able to confirm this.

Best wishes - Roy


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## ike (3 Oct 2006)

G,

Make up an extension lead - round plug (female) to round plug (male). Get the std 13A wall socket with the 16A wall socket. There is no inline fuse. Overcurrent protection is provided by the appropriate circuit breaker in your consumer unit. (I have a separate circuit with 16A breaker for (i) tablesaw and (ii)PT.

(This is my opinion and does constitute advice.
I am not a qualified electrician). 

Ike


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## PokerG (3 Oct 2006)

Ok, given me a bit to think about.

Thanks guys,

G


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## PokerG (3 Oct 2006)

Oh, the plug doesn't appear to be the standard 3 pin round plug but some strange germanic contraption. Any hints on plugging that into a 16amp sucket?

G


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## PokerG (3 Oct 2006)

To answer my own question, I am looking at the wrong end, the strange germanic end is the scheppach side. 

I guess I just wire it up to a 16 amp male myself?

G


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## Scrums (3 Oct 2006)

I've got two methods. I use a Scheppach combi and a Luna tabe saw which both draw more than 13a on startup.

One is pc - the other not !

non pc: Solder a 30mm panel pin where the fuse should go.........

pc: Use a blue 16 amp plug and socket....though the first method is obviously cheaper - and does work

Chris.


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## engineer one (3 Oct 2006)

is this a new product, in which case surely the logic is to 
get back on to NMA and ask them.

other wise, make sure that the plug fits into the machine,
then remove whatever is at the other end, and get your
leckie to fit a standard uk 3 pin plug. actually it might
be sensible to get him to fit a 16amp plug, which may or may
not be different from the normal 13 amp plug, having not
ever used one, i am not sure.

my dewalt table saw is soft start so does not need anything
other than 13 amp.

but first check with nma, and have a conversation with them.

paul :wink:


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## mrbmcg (3 Oct 2006)

Hi

Unless you are "a competent person" you need a professional electrician to add a 16A (Round blue 3-pin 240 Vac) circuit, circuit breaker and a corresponding socket. It will probably be ok to run both machines of the one circuit unless you start them both at the same time, in which case the breaker may trip.

You then wire a 16A (Round blue 3-pin 240Vac) plug to the other end of the cable that came with your saw, and plug the black 2-pin job to the table saw.

B&Q sell both the sockets and the plugs these days, but your local electrical factor will have them too.

Note there are no fuses in such a circuit, a 16A breaker is fitted to the circuit in the consumer unit. This often confuses people. When you are using a 13A plug it is normally plugged into a socket which is on a 32A or 40A breaker. It is the 13A (or 5A or 3A) fuse in the plug which provides the current limit.

I had exactly the same problem with the TS4000 that I used to have and it drove me nuts changing fuses all the time with no apparent rhyme or reason to it. If you wire it up to a 13A plug and use it that way, make sure you have a steady stream of 13A fuses available. :? 

Sorry if you knew all this already and I am teaching somebody to suck eggs.


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## engineer one (3 Oct 2006)

hi bob thanks for the answer, it will help us all.

what ever we know there is always a little bit which adds to the
knowledge base.

paul :wink:


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## tim (3 Oct 2006)

My TS2500 (soon for sale - when we move!) plugs into a 13a no prob. Think its tripped once in 4 years.

Cheers

Tim


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## Locton (3 Oct 2006)

hi i have the scheppach 2500 & i plug into a normal 13amp socket but i have taken out the fuse & replaced it with 16amp fuse wire, it has worked every time & i have been using it like this for nearly two years now.

i belive someone from scheppach told me to do this when i bought the saw, i know it does not meet current regulations nor is it the correct thing to do. but until i get all the electrics changed in my garage come workshop it will have to do, although i am not completely happy using it like this.


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## dennyk (4 Oct 2006)

I have the scheppach 2500CI, this replaced the 2500TS, I found out that when I had the 2500ts wired up to my workshop ring main with the normal 13 amp sockets, the table saw kept blowing the 13 amp fuse after this happened about half a dozen times, I decided to install a separate breaker into my power circuits and fitted the industrial 16amp socket and extension lead to match up with the socket on the table saw,

Problem solved the TS has never cut out since , total cost in the region of £30.00 and now I work safely 

*EDIT* To clarify the above, this is the way my workshop electrics are laid out,

power into workshop has a dual pole switch, from that switch feed goes to 
a twin breaker consumer unit and a single breaker unit.

the twin consumer unit is fitted with a 30 amp breaker for the ring main and 5 amp for the lighting, the single unit is fitted with a 20 amp breaker
and only feeds the table saw, which is fitted with a 16 amp plug, 

Hope this makes things more clear


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## Pecker (4 Oct 2006)

One point about using the "extention" lead/plug type arrangement.

The idea is that that the blue 16Amp plug uses a higher current than a standard plug, this means that more heat is generated. Thus the 16Amp plug should have a bigger cable than a standard 13amp plug can cope with or the wall socket. Failure to do so causes overheating.

This is why they (the socket part) should be hard wired in. It is quite safe and correct to wire a blue 16amp outlet in place of a twin socket in your ring main.

You do indeed need to be careful regarding "Part P" of the new regs. I really would suggest you bite the bullet and pay a sparky to come in and wire it for you if you are in the least bit hesitant, which you appear to be (no offence!).

The idea of converting the connection using the extention lead type scenario is OK for occasional use or an industrial machine that only uses little current.

One further point. Just remember your insurence company will not look on it lightly if you overload wiring...

mark


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## WellsWood (4 Oct 2006)

Scrums":3crno8ck said:


> non pc: Solder a 30mm panel pin where the fuse should go.........
> 
> Chris.



:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

On a par with twisting the bare wires together and wrapping with insulating tape I would have thought.

A 16A outlet wired into a 16A breaker on a dedicated circuit on your consumer unit with an RCD is the safe way.

I would echo other comments on here: if you don't know what you're doing, get it done by someone who does! 

Mark


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## engineer one (4 Oct 2006)

ah guys and there is the rub, are you sure the guy who says he can actually knows what he is doing???

in these days too many people use dodgy papers to claim they can 
do certain things, often nicking a company registration for personal
use, so be careful, it is your life they may be playing with :twisted: 

electrics are certainly an area where you need to know who the 
workman is and what his references are.

paul :wink:


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## mrbmcg (5 Oct 2006)

Pecker":2iwwc5y3 said:


> This is why they (the socket part) should be hard wired in. It is quite safe and correct to wire a blue 16amp outlet in place of a twin socket in your ring main.



I don't actually agree with this Mark. Thinking about it for a second, you would have a 16A outlet on a 32A or 40A breaker (which is standard on a ring main) with *no* other current limiting device i.e. no fuse. This means that under fault conditions your device could take up to 40A for a short (or sustained period depending on the fault) time and potentially cause a fire. 

I'm no expert, but this would be the equivalent of simply shorting out the fuse in a 13A plug with a bit of wire :shock: 

It's my belief that you need a 16A circuit added to your consumer unit in order to limit the current which can be drawn by a fault condition.

If somebody knows better I'm willing to be corrected though.


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## Shadowfax (6 Oct 2006)

You need a 16 amp circuit. Not an addition to a ring main.
Also in order to have the installation completed to conform to Part P you need more than a competant person. You need someone who is a member of a "competant persons' scheme". Go for someone who is a member of NICEIC for instance. Or ask Building Control for information on who can do the job for you. They might have a list of suitable firms or acceptable sparkies in your area. They are there to help, despite what some folks might think. Part P is not their fault, they just administer it along with all other Building Regulations.
As a fire officerI am aware of what a faulty electrical installation can do so if there is a doubt - don't do it!
Sorry if this sounds like a rant.
Best wishes.

SF


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## Pecker (6 Oct 2006)

i accept totaly your argument, however I have just had this very thing done by a registered electrician at my own workshop (he was appointed by the council who own the unit). He told me the 16A socket was used due to the startup current - not the continous rating and the machind had to incoraporate their own cutoff device which replaced the "plug fuse".

I will however contact the council this afternoon to get this verified and let you all know.
mark


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## Pecker (6 Oct 2006)

By the way, Part 'P' is one of the most confusing regs to come in for a while, but you are actually allowed to adapt your own wiring in your own house - but you pay the consequences. However, i as a tradesman can only do certain things in certain areas. The stupid thins is as SF has said that now if you are an electrician and certified to the 16th edition... htat does not allow you to work in domestic houses under part P, you do indeed need to undertak yet another coures to become a "competant person" - or you must get your work certifed by a competent person. Even dafter is that that doesn't apply to commercial properties.

mark


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## Adam (6 Oct 2006)

Pecker":2cut2rp3 said:


> By the way, Part 'P' is one of the most confusing regs to come in for a while, but you are actually allowed to adapt your own wiring in your own house - but you pay the consequences. mark



Actually, as I am, provided you notify Building Control in advance of starting work, you can as a private householder do any work on your house. Building Control are then required to send our a certified electrician to sign off (and test) your work, and issue you the certificates. Even non part P electricians are simply submitting certificates to BS7671, and although its up to the council to decide if further testing is needed, in the main, they simply sign off the work.

Adam


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## Pecker (6 Oct 2006)

Umm, according to the council officer I've just spoken to, the 16amp plug _can_be wired stright into the ring main... subject to certain conditions relating to load protection and capacity. 
However, he is getting another sparky out to double check it next week as he is not entirely convinced in my workshop it should have been done :shock: 

mark


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## RogerS (6 Oct 2006)

That's the type of question you might get an answer to on askthetrades but the site seems to have been down for a long time. Screwfix Talk forum..electricians?


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## Freetochat (6 Oct 2006)

Surely loading and cutouts are safety issues. Not only plugs are an issue but wiring as well. You may get away with things for a while, but someone, somewhere will get injured by them. A 16 amp spur to power the machine correctly costs very little when compared to an injury. I had four 16 amp spurs individually installed on cutout fuses put in by a qualified electrician, total cost £65. Cheap compared to injury.


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## mrbmcg (7 Oct 2006)

Pecker":17bzxuti said:


> Umm, according to the council officer I've just spoken to, the 16amp plug _can_be wired stright into the ring main... subject to certain conditions relating to load protection and capacity.
> However, he is getting another sparky out to double check it next week as he is not entirely convinced in my workshop it should have been done :shock:
> 
> mark



I simply *cannot* believe that this is so. That is tantamount to saying that for devices less than 13A you require a fuse in the plug, but for more than 13A that you need nothing? :shock: 

How on earth would building control know what you were plugging into the socket? I mean technically if you cut through the wire accidentally with something you would be creating a dead short across a 40A breaker with no protection at all. :shock: 

Nobody, building control or otherwise can determine what you are plugging into this socket at any given time. The protection must surely be before the socket, not after it? Or am I mad?


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## RogerS (8 Oct 2006)

I think we're maybe getting a bit confused between radial (ie consumer unit direct to socket) and ring main circuits. 

The 16A circuits being discussed are radial circuits. The fuse or MCB or RCB in the consumer unit protects the single cable up to the socket. The cable is deemed to be adequately rated to handle the power that a 16A load will draw. The fuse or MCB also protects against someone cutting through the appliance cable that is plugged into the socket or the appliance taking too much power. 

However, many appliances may be fitted with their own thermal overload cutout as well...

Ring main circuits also have a fuse/MCB or RCB which fulfills the same purpose...ie protects the ring main cable (not the appliances...that is the job of the fuses inside the plugs and assumes that the fueses are correctly rated ...which I'm sure everyone on the forum does diligently :wink: ). 

Any RCB provides the additional benefit of detecting an imbalance between the current flowing in the live and neutral eg a line to earth fault such as you grabbing hold of the live cable while standing in a puddle. In the presence of an imbalance the RCB will trip...which is why it is important to test them regularly. On a negative note, they will also trip with a neutral to earth short or a compromised neutral but that's another story.


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## Keith Smith (8 Oct 2006)

Pecker":132vgxh1 said:


> Umm, according to the council officer I've just spoken to, the 16amp plug _can_be wired stright into the ring main... subject to certain conditions relating to load protection and capacity.
> However, he is getting another sparky out to double check it next week as he is not entirely convinced in my workshop it should have been done :shock:
> 
> mark



You can't, or certainly shouldn't, wire a 16A socket directly into the ring main. The socket is rated at 16A as will be the cable to the machinery, yet it will have a 32A supply, and I haven't come across any machine fitted with a fuse, thermal overload yes, fuse no.

You really need to get a quafied sparks to sort this out, but if you want to run a 16A circuit from a ring main then the simplest method is to wire a 2 way consumer unit into the ring. They are so cheap , about £13 plus breakers at aout £5 each. Use 16A type B breakers and, only if you find they still trip, fit type C breakers.

But this is really a job for a decent sparks.


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## Pecker (8 Oct 2006)

Since I feel slightly annoyed by the inference I do not know what I am talking about I wish to state the following.

I am a carpenter of 25+ years. I was the maintenance supervisor (agreed not directly repsnsible for elecs, but still supervisor at times overseeing sparkies)) for a large NHS trust, and site supervisor for a large school, I have rewired two of my own hoses and carried out hundreds of basic electrical alterations and just paid £40 to go on a half day seminar relating to Part P. (Not any kind of qualification course, just a seminar explaning the regs.) and run my own carpentry and maintenance business.

I am not a dimwit.

I do know the EXACT difference between a radial circuit and a ring main (which for the unitiated was used on naval vessas originally so if a torpedo etc hit, the power could still (in theory) get around the ship).

The Approved electrical company sent out by the council directly wired the 16amp socket into the ring main. I DID challange this , but as already stated was assured it was OK. Furthermore as I said *apparently* - according to the council officer - there are circumstances where this may be done. Do Not asked me the technical details as that IS beyond me.
However, the council officer does have serious concerns that this should have been done in my workshop, hence the sending out on Tuesday of another sparky.
I do not profess to be a sparky though I am fairly competent, so when I directly ask and am told it is Ok, I take the word of a fellow tradesman especially from a reputable company.

I am sorry if this sounds like a rant, I guess if just feel a bit defensive.
mark


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## mrbmcg (9 Oct 2006)

No need to feel defensive Mark  

I don't think anyone is trying to tell you how to do anything. I personally am merely intrigued by the advice you have been given. :wink: 

I'm not going to wheel out my credentials, but I realise you are not a dimwit. It isn't your knowledge or decision making that I am questioning. You have done exactly the right thing and brought in the "people in the know", I just happen not to aree wholeheartedly with them (yet?)  

But I think that given your experience you can see maybe why? If I was you, I would be a bit concerned. Fundementally you have a circuit consisting of a Live,Neutral, and Earth and a current limiting device limiting the current through the live phase primarily. Radial or Ring main circuits are neither here nor there.

Wouldn't it be a concern that the difference between 16A and 32A running through the persons body in the event of a worst case accident might be the difference between life and death (although believe it or not 30mA is enough to kill you :shock: )

The only thing that I can possibly think of regarding the stance your building control may be taking is the RCD protection in your electrical supply. An RCD measures the current going out and the current coming back and if there is a difference i.e. some of it has went through an object to ground then the breaker trips. This is how they are rated i.e. a 30mA RCD will trip if at least 30mA goes missing.

I won't go on any more, all I'll say is that if electrical equipment up to 13A is forced by the regulations to have a plug with a fuse in it then I can't see the reasoning behind allowing machinery with a potentially higher current rating not to require one.

Again Mark, although this has become a bit of a debate, I wouldn't want anybody to be injured or worse due to bad advice. I hope you get it all sorted out in a nice and safe way. Good luck! :lol:


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## RogerS (9 Oct 2006)

mrbmcg":12yrh2u8 said:


> No need to feel defensive Mark
> 
> I won't go on any more, all I'll say is that if electrical equipment up to 13A is forced by the regulations to have a plug with a fuse in it then I can't see the reasoning behind allowing machinery with a potentially higher current rating not to require one.



The rationale is to prevent excessive current flowing down the appliance flex.. A properly installed circuit using the correct cable (for example, the cable to your cooker) does not need any fuses since overcurrent protection is provided by the MCB or fuse.

As you rightly say, feeding any circuit from a suitable rated RCD will protect/should protect from electric shock...if not then you'll be dead whether you have 16A or 32A flowing through you.


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## mrbmcg (9 Oct 2006)

Roger Sinden":lz30n7z2 said:


> The rationale is to prevent excessive current flowing down the appliance flex.. A properly installed circuit using the correct cable (for example, the cable to your cooker) does not need any fuses since overcurrent protection is provided by the MCB or fuse.



I said I wouldn't say any more but.....this is my point exactly. In this case the correct circuit breaker is *not* being used. A 16A device is being wired directly into a 32A breaker!

Forgetting electrical shock and RCDs and for a minute, what about the risk of a fire? Suddenly you have 32A running through a cable rated for 16A - the cable melts, becomes bare and can start a fire, especially in amongst the sawdust! This is the problem I have with the advice Mark is being given. It goes against all common sense that appears to being applied to other parts of the regs.



> As you rightly say, feeding any circuit from a suitable rated RCD will protect/should protect from electric shock...if not then you'll be dead whether you have 16A or 32A flowing through you.



100% true, with one caveat. If you manage to short yourself between live and neutral i.e. live in one hand and neutral in the other an RCD will not save you unless enough current flows to ground. The RCD will only trip when a current imbalance is detected between the live and neutral so if all the current flows through your left arm, through your chest and out your right arm then you will be dead unfortunately.  

And on that note.... :shock:


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## RogerS (10 Oct 2006)

Hi Bob...I see where we were at cross purposes now. I'd not picked up that they were suggesting 16A off a 32A breaker. Agree with what you're saying.


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## Shultzy (10 Oct 2006)

This may be a bit late but I think you need one of these - BS 4343 / IEC 309 / CEE17 16A max (commonly known as a "commando" plug and socket)


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## Pecker (10 Oct 2006)

Forgive me if this is a short reply tonight, not feeling well after tooth extraction last week went wrong, been back today and found the dentist ( a good friend and customer)is critically ill in hosp and his wife killed in motorbike accident on Sat on A40. so not very *talkative*.

Wireing the plug direct into ringwas wrong. new sparky came today and removed it upon sight. Old sparks discovered only one other socket on that ring and so wired it in. Basically wrong!

will write more tomorrow when feeling better.

mark


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## mrbmcg (12 Oct 2006)

Pecker":14zspan0 said:


> Forgive me if this is a short reply tonight, not feeling well after tooth extraction last week went wrong, been back today and found the dentist ( a good friend and customer)is critically ill in hosp and his wife killed in motorbike accident on Sat on A40. so not very *talkative*.
> 
> Wireing the plug direct into ringwas wrong. new sparky came today and removed it upon sight. Old sparks discovered only one other socket on that ring and so wired it in. Basically wrong!
> 
> ...



I'm really sorry to hear about your friend Mark. I have had a friend killed in a car accident recently. She was 38 and had two kids under 3. Devastating, really devastating. Makes arguments about wiring sockets seem insignificant.  

I really hope your friend is ok.


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## SON (13 Oct 2006)

It seems that G's dilemma with electricians and varying advice is now resolved, so my post is perhaps a little late. However, as a longish-term Scheppach user it might still be of some use.

I do not invite anyone to copy my installation, we need to use competent people (and comply with current legislation), but what I have installed in my workshop is as follows;

I connect my Scheppach machines (either TS4010 saw or HMS260 planer) via the Scheppach dust extractor autoswitch, which I connect to a 16amp (mcb protected) spur wired from my workshop consumer unit. The spur was wired some time before the regulations changed - so I was then allowed to give myself permission to do it! The only permanently wired item is the 16 amp spur.

The "autoswitch" delays starting the chip collector/ dust extractor (HA2600) until the saw or planer startup current-surge is finished, and also allows the chip/dust extractor to "run-on" for a few seconds after the main machine stops. (The Scheppach autoswitch was NOT an inexpensive device - but it is VERY convenient.) As the autoswitch is german origin it uses the 16amp german outlets for both saw and chip/dust collector. I use some heavy duty flex (2.5 sq mm) to connect either the Scheppach saw or planer to the autoswitch. 

My drill press is connected to the ring main via a standard 13 amp plug (fused accordingly) because it does not need to fire-up the Scheppach dust extraction. I occasionally plug it into my Festool CT22 when I want to collect chips - e.g. produced by a large Forstner bit.

I also run my Hammer bandsaw via the Scheppach Autoswitch (16 amp circuit). I swap the leads over between the Scheppach and the Hammer machines.

I agree with earlier posts which mention the fact that the UK fused plug's fuse was intended to protect the equipment wiring AND its cable/lead. 

However, irrespective of anyone's opinion (including mine!) we are all now bound by the need to comply with current IEE wiring regs (not an easy read) and also the current legislation which restricts certain installation work to "registered" installers only. 

I might share my opinions on this state of affairs but that could be a little too much like politics ;-)

Simon


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