# Help with bench.Any ideas??



## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

After turning some bigger,mainly out of balance pieces,lately,my bench doesn't seeem to be up to the job with some bad wobbling occurring.It's fine when doing smaller pieces.
My problem is that we have to put the car away each night :roll: and the front of the car just fits under the bench and in the garage/workshop :shock:Hence why my lathe is as it is. 
The bench at the moment is supported by three strong brackets attached by screw bolts to 2"x2"s behind 3/4" ply.With two legs supporting when turning.
The bench itself is 2 pieces of 3/4" ply glued and screwed together.
The lathe can't go anywhere else in the shop.
To the right of the lathe is the doorway,and on the left is my workbench,which is on collapsable castors so it can be moved out into the shop if needed,which it will be soon  
So can anyone come up with a better solution for me,apart from selling my lathe to one of you :wink: to make it a lot more sturdier.

Paul.J. :?:


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## PowerTool (23 Jan 2008)

:-k Hmm,don't know..

It's relatively easy to make something stronger and _permanent_,but can see your dilemma about it needing to be temporary.
Are your support legs that you use when turning just vertical? If so,might be worth making them into gallows-bracket style to cope with some lateral force as well.
Or make a hammock to go under the bench,and fill it with sandbags.. :wink: 

Andrew


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## CHJ (23 Jan 2008)

Paul, how far under the bench top does the zafira encroach when in?

Does the front valance extend both sides of the bench, IE into the doorway and to the left?


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## Anonymous (23 Jan 2008)

It's no good Paul. You're just not gonna fit everything in. You'll have to give the lathe to me and dismantle the shelf! :wink: 

Dave


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## Gordon T (23 Jan 2008)

Paul,

you need to get your priorities right..........sort the lathe and leave the car outside :wink: 
GT


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## Mark Hancock (23 Jan 2008)

Paul

How about a couple of acro type legs which you can put in position and tension when turning. Ideally you'd want to bolt them to the floor and bench - I'm sure there must be a way that this could be done and easily removed when the car is in.

My other thought was that the 'bench' is not that substantial being ply. A solid piece of thicker timber or a building beam would be better.


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## Anonymous (23 Jan 2008)

Howzabout a simple rectangular frame (you could add diagonal struts for strength and to distribute the down forces) which fits snugly under the front of the bench.
Drill though the top of the bench and the top of the frame to accommodate substantial bolts allowing removal and storage of the frame.

4 x 4 recycled wood should do the job... mind your back :wink: 

Simple is best... I know :lol:


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## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the replies,and ideas  
I should have pointed out that i think some of the problem is the wall where the lathe is fixed to,as this seems to be shaking with the wobble from the lathe.
So i was thinking of a free standing bench but with the legs further apart so the car still goes under,but am concerned about the length of the bench,which would have to go more towards the work bench,and there would be no central support.
*CHJ wrote*
how far under the bench top does the zafira encroach when in? 
Does the front valance extend both sides of the bench, IE into the doorway and to the left?
Chas the car is more or less in line with the doorway,The bonnet goes about half way in before it reached the underrside of the bench.

*GordonT wrote*
you need to get your priorities right..........sort the lathe and leave the car outside 
Gordon.We tried this some time back and the car got vandalised 3 times.So back in the garage it went  

Here is a wider piccy of the w/s,if it helps anymore.




Paul.J.


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## Gordon T (23 Jan 2008)

Hi Paul,
I was only kidding, although my car has never been in our garage.

(My Daughter lives in Birmingham so I know what you mean.)

Perhaps you could go with the long solid bench so the car would fit underneath, but incorporate a central leg stand , which could be removed when you finish turning allowing the car access........perhaps bolted with wingnuts to the main bench so easier to remove. Or even hinged to the wall and swung out of the way when not needed.

GT


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## Woodmagnet (23 Jan 2008)

Paul, i think sturdier brackets would help. The ones you are using look a little lightweight to me. :wink:


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## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

*GordonT wrote*
I was only kidding, 
Gordon i knew you were only joking  
It took me ages to talk the wife into putting the car on the front so i could turn the garage into a proper workshop,and when i finally did it was great,not having to worry about tidying everything away every night,but it was short lived  

*Kevin wrote*
i think sturdier brackets would help. The ones you are using look a little lightweight to me. 
Thanks Kevin.
The bench is absolutely solid as it is,and even more so when the legs are fitted underneath,but i still get a lot of wobble,so much so that the bench lifted and the legs fell out.
Looks like i will have to try and rearrange the shop somehow :? 

Paul.J.


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## duncanh (23 Jan 2008)

Any chance of a couple of pics with the car in place to get better idea of what sort of space you have to work with?

I was wondering about some sort of hinged or removable supports, but definitely something more substantial that the brackets that you have already


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## lugo35 (23 Jan 2008)

easy sell the car and buy a VB36  prob solved


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## jpt (23 Jan 2008)

HI Paul

Looking at the picture can the thing with the grey cover next to your workbench be moved elsewhere?

If it can I would build a longer workbech in that corner and put the lathe on it. Looking at the width you have there you could build a very good bench which should solve the problem.

Then for a worbench you could build, or buy, something like this

john


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## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

As requested.









*Lugo35 wrote*
easy sell the car and buy a VB36 prob solved
That's the best idea so far.Mmm-If only :lol: 

*JPT wrote*
Looking at the picture can the thing with the grey cover next to your workbench be moved elsewhere? 
The thing with the grey cover on John is what is causing the problem.It's my table saw,which was where the new lathe was going to go,but i was made an offer i couldn't refuse with the saw.So the lathe had to go back where it came from.And no i'm not selling the saw either :lol: 

Paul.J.


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## lugo35 (23 Jan 2008)

is there any way of making a bench on wheels and move it when car comes in??


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## DaveL (23 Jan 2008)

How big is your garden? Build a new workshop. :shock: 

Ok Ok I have me coat. :roll:


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## izalarfin (23 Jan 2008)

you could try some more brackets and fix them upside down to the top of the bench.


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## CHJ (23 Jan 2008)

Welcome to the forum O laughing one.


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## izalarfin (23 Jan 2008)

thanks, you got to see the funny side, life's to short etc.etc. :lol:


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## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

*DaveL wrote*
How big is your garden? Build a new workshop. 
The w/s is/was the garden :lol: HaHaHaHaHa
Paul.J.


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## CHJ (23 Jan 2008)

Paul, I take it the lathe wall is just a light weight partition one.

If there is room in front of the vehicle when parked I would build up two columns with 45 X 20 X 10CM concrete blocks, you can straddle your hose near the wall on the left column.


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## colin macdiarmid (23 Jan 2008)

Just a thought, 
you could put one of these at the front corners of your bench then remove them when you've finished turning each night. you may have to modify them i.e cut the hieght and maybe a small bolt to the bench.
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... -farm-jack


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## Paul.J (23 Jan 2008)

Thanks Colin,but i think i will still have the problem with the wall.

Chas that does seem to be the most solid idea.
I will have a measure up tomorrow.
I've got some blocks  
Might even take the panel away to give me that few more inches.  

Paul.J.


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## CHJ (23 Jan 2008)

That's the way 'Trev the Turner' had his mounted, I think he also had a cupboard underneath, although yours would not be so deep back to front you could use the cupboard door frame to stiffen the top shelf (4X2 for top member)

4 rag bolts or decent coach screws down into the top bricks/blocks should hold it. 

If block height does not work out spot on, use 4X2 thicknessed to suit bolted to blocks/bricks


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## Blister (24 Jan 2008)

My problem is that we have to put the car away each night Rolling Eyes

Why not leave the car outside , and that way you have an nice " Workshop " 

:lol: :lol:


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## Paul.J (24 Jan 2008)

*Blister wrote*
Why not leave the car outside , and that way you have an nice " Workshop " 
Now why didn't i think of that idea :? 
Paul.J.


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## Bob Chapman (24 Jan 2008)

Hi Paul,

It's a little unusual, and I can't see things well enough to know whether it would work, but could you somehow brace the bench to the ceiling joists, rather than to the floor? That would leave the space below the bench unencumbered.

Bob


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## duncanh (24 Jan 2008)

Much clearer with the photos Paul, thanks.

I'd go with something similar to what Chas has suggested but do away with the bracket holding the bench to the wall so that the bench is completely self supporting.
If you use thicker wood for the bench you could move the supports further away. The thicker bench may mean that you have to make yourself a step to turn on, but that has the added advantage of taking your feet off the cold garage floor

I was wondering about the need for a central support or leg for the bench and then a thought struck me - other than the weight of the bench there's nothing weighing down on the centre so if the edge supports were string enough you could perhaps remove it. Then I started thinking - if the centre of the bench isn't supporting anything does it need to be there (other than to provide space to put things on and catch shavings)? Perhaps there's some way to solve this problem by doing away with the actual bench and just using supports (brackets or legs) at each end. You could then have some sort of folding bench for use whilst working.


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## Whitley (24 Jan 2008)

Paul, the problem is your garage/workshop isn't big enough. OK that's stating the obvious. I had a similar problem once when I bought a car without checking whether it would fit in the garage, it didn't, but only by, if memory serves correctly, by about 6". The garage had an 'up and over' door. We managed to 'lengthen' the garage by adjusting the door and door frame. Could this idea be a solution to your problem? If so all your bench problem would be more easily remedied.


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## Paul.J (24 Jan 2008)

*Bob Chapman wrote*
but could you somehow brace the bench to the ceiling joists
Thanks Bob,but the joists above the lathe are also attached to 3/4 ply sheets,so i might get the same problem as with the wall :? 

*Duncanh wrote*
Perhaps there's some way to solve this problem by doing away with the actual bench and just using supports (brackets or legs) at each end. You could then have some sort of folding bench for use whilst working.
Some good ideas their Duncan.  

*Whitley wrote*
We managed to 'lengthen' the garage by adjusting the door and door frame. Could this idea be a solution to your problem? If so all your bench problem would be more easily remedied.
Good idea,but am afraid no can do


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## Bodrighy (24 Jan 2008)

It seems that the main problem is getting the car in under the bench. If so why can't you build a really heavy duty bech as wide as needs be but higher and have a removable platform to stand on. You could go as Chas suggested or even like Marks heavy duty bench on an A frame this way

Pete


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## Paul.J (24 Jan 2008)

*Bodrighy wrote*
It seems that the main problem is getting the car in under the bench. If so why can't you build a really heavy duty bech as wide as needs be but higher and have a removable platform to stand on. You could go as Chas suggested or even like Marks heavy duty bench on an A frame this way 

Thanks Pete.
You are correct the main problem is the height,but i have already raised it as high as i can go,you can see the 3" duckboard under the bench that i stand on to come up to work height.
The other problem is the width.
I could go wider and have pillars either end,but i like Duncans idea of just doing away with the bench top and resting the lathe on the pillars.This will give more height under the lathe,but i don't think i have the width on the lathe to fit the car under this way.
Hope this makes sense :?


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## Mark Hancock (24 Jan 2008)

Paul

The pillar method sounds the answer. Why don't you set the pillars wide enough apart to get the car in there. Then put a platform (building beam?) across these to sit the lathe on also making sure the pillars are high enough again for the car. Hope that makes sense :?:


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## duncanh (25 Jan 2008)

I had a thought last night - I should have suggested looking at the stands for the Nova lathes for ideas. 
The one available in NZ is substantial cast iron - http://tinyurl.com/2sj2kc
The one in the UK now available from Record is steel and similar to the one I got a couple of years ago - http://tinyurl.com/329lgx

The steel one originally had a horizontal piece connecting the 2 ends but they appear to have done away with that. Notice how the legs are splayed.
My stand works well but I have had to ballast it with 2 shelves low down on which I rest 2 breeze blocks.
You could make similar legs from rectangular section steel or you could perhaps make some substantial boxed in supports that can be filled with sand to absorb vibration.

One advantage of not having a bench under the lathe is that you can put your waste collection bin underneath the work and direct shavings into it either by modifying your gouge hold, moving the bin slightly, or deflecting them with a hand. 
The downside of this idea, of course, is that you then have a huge haystack waiting to collect those small screws etc that you rather stupidly decide that it's faster to change in situ rather than over at the shavings free bench


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2008)

If I remember Paul's layout correctly, one of his main constraints is that the vehicle centreline is more inline with the door to be seen on the right than the lathe, this results in the problem that any stand would have its right hand leg just at the point where the vehicle encroaches most.

I think a mobile base may be in order with suitable lock down castors.

Example of castorsHere but you may have to sign in.


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## duncanh (25 Jan 2008)

If a mobile base is needed they came up with a clever one at my local club for use with the steel DVR lathe stand. 
The castors at each end are mounted on a board that is hinged and which has a long lever mounted in the middle. 
When the lever is up the castors are off the floor and the stand takes all the weight as normal.
When the handle is down the castors are on the floor.

I should be seeing it again in a couple of weeks if you'd like a photo.


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## Paul.J (25 Jan 2008)

Thanks Mark/Chas/Duncan.
I don't really fancy a mobile lathe,but if it turns out to be my only option then if you could get a piccy Duncan it would give me a better idea i suppose.
Would there be enough weight in a mobile system :?: 

I do like the pillar idea and have been measuring up and i could get 2 pillars in,though they would only be a single coarse of blocks.
Would this be suitable. :?: 
Also will a sand,cement mix be suitable to use,with vibration etc,from the lathe or is there a strong adhesive,like *No Nails *i could use.


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## jpt (25 Jan 2008)

HI

From the photos it looks like you have brick walls with timber roof joists, if that is the case this idea should work.

Suspend the table saw from the ceiling, it may sound strange but I have seen a similar thing this morning.

I was picking up a dining table for a friend this morning and it was in this persons garage and I noticed this workbench hanging from the ceiling. So as you do I asked him about it. 

He is a carver and woodworker using mainly handtools, he used to have the bench, which is almost the full width of the garage, on the floor but they brought a new car about 2 years ago. His old car was a small one but the new one is an estate it fits in width wise with a couple of feet to spare but is only 6 inches shorter than the garage. He didnt want to get rid of the bench and had no where else to put it so he decided to hang it from the ceiling.

The bench is about 8' long and 3' wide and is solidlly built. The garage is brick walls with wood roof joists, look very similar to yours. The only problem he had was that the joists were in the wrong place so he put cross braces in to hang the bench from. He now uses an electric winch to raise and lower it but he used to use a hand one like THIS or THIS

When he wants to use it the car goes in the drive and he lowers it down when finished he raises it up and the bonnet of the car goes underneath it. He did say he was a bit wary of it falling on the car at first but it has been there for about 2 years now and he has never had any problems.

If you were to do this with your table saw you could then put the lathe along the side wall where you originally intended and then just lower the saw when you need it.

john


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## Paul.J (25 Jan 2008)

Here is the tablesaw John.
Unfortuneately my garage is not brick built but a pre-fab one,and i wouldn't have the height to do this.If tried this it would probably pull the roof down :shock: 
Though i have often thought about heisting smaller things up in the air,machines that is. :wink:


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2008)

Paul, Sand cement mortar mix will be fine, just leave it a couple of days to set well before you start impact drilling for the bench fixings. (or drill the holes in the top blocks before building them in) As the span of 'wall' is minimal and little or no chance of settlement movement having to be accommodated then make it a strong mix. 
Your bench top will tie the top of the two pillars, and if you can incorporate a slim cupboard underneath the door framing will tie the front. 
(you could use a concrete lintel between the two pillars to dampen the bench if you have one lying around the yard :lol: )

With your variable speed you should be able to find a sweet spot easier without the harmonics of the bench top joining in the chorus.


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## jpt (25 Jan 2008)

HI Paul

An idea for a movable bench for you.





I made a couple of these for the club, the wooden blocks at each end fold down and make the feet when in use. We also put bags of gravel or heavy blocks on the shelf for stability.

john


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## Paul.J (25 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the piccy John.  
I have built me workbench on castors (Norm style) you can see one of the castors on the right front.
Doing it this way would still give me the problem on finding space for it.
I think it would have to be as Duncan says with the Nova style legs so leaving the middle area free.

Chas, will a single line of blocks be sufficent :?: 
EDIT-Lying flat down.
I know Trev's was 18" square which would be a lot more stable.


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2008)

Paul.J":gpf2mr32 said:


> ....Chas, will a single line of blocks be sufficent :?:
> EDIT-Lying flat down.....


Paul that would be a super job if you have that many blocks spare, no stability problems at all for that height.


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## dickm (25 Jan 2008)

It might be a good idea to put some PVA in the mortar mix if you are using the blockwork solution. I always remember being told by an old brickie that "the mortar's not there to hold the bricks together, lad, it's to keep 'em apart"


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2008)

dickm":27yf8q7m said:


> It might be a good idea to put some PVA in the mortar mix if you are using the blockwork solution. I always remember being told by an old brickie that "the mortar's not there to hold the bricks together, lad, it's to keep 'em apart"



Dick, I would guess you've never spent a couple of days trying to dress strong *cement mortar *off a couple of thousand bricks :lol:


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## dickm (25 Jan 2008)

CHJ":1zavcpaa said:


> Dick, I would guess you've never spent a couple of days trying to dress strong *cement mortar *off a couple of thousand bricks :lol:


Oh yes I have! But remember the law of Sod - when you want to get the stuff off, it won't come. When you want it to stay put.......


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## Paul.J (25 Jan 2008)

Thanks for the tip *DickM*
I will be doing the block pillar idea.Just got to get another half dozen blocks and a bag of cement tomorrow.
I forgot that i have got to go longer with the bench,so i won't be able to secure the lathe to the pillars :roll: 
So would it still be o.k to fix the bench top to the pillars and the lathe to the bench top.
Also what would be best to use for the top,ply,mdf or something else :?:


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## CHJ (25 Jan 2008)

Paul.J":lh68xb1v said:


> Thanks for the tip *DickM*
> I will be doing the block pillar idea.Just got to get another half dozen blocks and a bag of cement tomorrow.
> I forgot that i have got to go longer with the bench,so i won't be able to secure the lathe to the pillars :roll:
> So would it still be o.k to fix the bench top to the pillars and the lathe to the bench top.
> Also what would be best to use for the top,ply,mdf or something else :?:



Bench to pillars is fine Paul, for preference I use thick MDF, somewhat cheaper and possibly does not resonate as much as ply. You can always run a couple of 4X2's under it.



dickm":lh68xb1v said:


> ...Oh yes I have! But remember the law of Sod - when you want to get the stuff off, it won't come. When you want it to stay put.......


 :lol:


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## Paul.J (1 Feb 2008)

Just an update for those interested.
I have now gone with Chas's other idea that he gave me,and am now going to try 2"x1" box steel frame legs bolted to the floor,wall and bench top.
I made a dry run with the concrete blocks i had,and it was still going to be too tight.
So i decided to take away the top middle section of ply from the wall and cut away what i needed to on the lower section.
This gave me another 4-1/2" plus i cut 1-1/2" off the existing bench,giving me 6" in total.
Using the box steel is now leaving more room for the car,and still been able to lower the bench height so i don't have to stand on a 3" duckboard, and i might even be able to put some drawers under the bench top or a small cupboard.Just got to wait for the frames to be made up.
I have also taken out the right hand window and replaced it with 3/4" ply 
giving me more wall space behind the lathe.
So thanks for all the input,i think it will be a lot better for me when finished


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## Gordon T (1 Feb 2008)

Hey up Paul,

look forward to seeing piccies of the finished masterpiece  

GT


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