# Starter lathe



## bobscarle (28 May 2007)

I have wanted to have a go at turning for some time. I don't have room for a lathe on a stand so I was considering buying a bench top model. Something that could be stored under the bench and placed on top as required. I had thought about mounting the lathe on a piece of 18mm ply and bolting down through the bench dog holes. I realise that capacity will be limited but I only want to turn feet and knobs at the moment. Maybe, if I get bitten, then I will progress further.

I would like some help deciding which lathe to go for. Obviously I do not want to spend a fortune as I am only trying it. I have looked at the SIP lathe at the top of the page http://www.westskelstonservices.co.uk/acatalog/wood_lathes.html for £90 it looks to be ok, and it comes with 3 chisels. Does anybody have any experience of this? Are there any others I should consider?

Any help would be appreciated.

Bob


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## greggy (28 May 2007)

hi bob, i have only jut started turning and i have the fox midi but i feel it will be too small for you. if you can see it in the flesh and working you will have a better idea if it will suit you. russell would be the best bet to ask, and no dout he will give you more advice, no matter which lathe you go for in the end you will get the bug, and believe me the slope is a very long way down, I LOVE IT and enjoy it.


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

I'm in the same position, and will watch this topic.
I PM'd a member of the forum re: the SIP you're looking at (01488 from memory?) and his response was:
"Although the price is tempting I don't think you can turn the head 90deg to turn larger bowls the record does turn as does the perform. I would also question the strength of the bed on the sip model."

I am looking more closely at the second model down on that site, the SIP mini lathe. This comes from different manufacturers, including Fox and Charnwood. I have found a variant of it by a fairly well known make for £90 - PM me if you want me to find the link.

Cheers,

Sam


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## TEP (28 May 2007)

Hi Bob, and welcome to the crazy world of turning. 

IMO the SIP lathe your are looking at is a waste of money. 

Also the small Fox electronic variable speed lathe has many failings with the drive electronics. The main being that when you turn the speed down to less than half you can place your hand on the work and stop the machine. With all these cheap electronic variable speed machines there is just no torque at the lower speeds. 

A lathe should have, weight, good head stock bearings, swivel head, and the whole machine should be stiff. If it has these you are just left to your own learning curve, and believe me that is enough in its self. 

My suggestion is that if you are looking to spend around £100, you either look around for a second hand lathe. Or give some serious thought to the lathe on sale at http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?pf_id=21733&name=perform+lathe&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0 it does not have a swivel head, but it is a good solid machine which can be made to two different sizes because of the bed extension 

If you really wanted to try and future proof yourself a little by aquiring a swivel head lathe, you would have to be willing to spend a bit more cash for the pleasure. Although IMHO I think swivel heads on small lathes are a bit of a luxury because the motor is often not up to the job of swinging a large piece of timber unless you can cut very, VERY fine. 

Hope this has been of some help, and is only my opinion of course. Good luck with your search.


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

TEP":3343gf7a said:


> Hi Bob, and welcome to the crazy world of turning.
> 
> IMO the SIP lathe your are looking at is a waste of money.
> 
> ...



Thanks Tam,

My problem with the CCSL lathe (I was almost set on buying it a couple of weeks ago) is that it doesn't have variable speed, and I have been told that for small items, this is not necessary, but nice.
Can you shed any light on this?
Sam


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## TEP (28 May 2007)

Wotcha Sam.

As many on here I am only a hobby turner, and this is only my personal opinion.

As much as it may be nice to have, you do NOT need variable speed. It is only a thing of the last decade, and yes it does speed up production. If that's your thing. Also if you place a very unbalanced piece of timber on the lathe you can turn the speed down to stop the machine dancing across the floor. At the same time of course you can stop and change the belt.

With small items the unbalancing factor is so much less that often you don't need to adjust the speed at all. Of course what is of great benefit is with cast bed lathes the weight has a great dampening effect. Also with small item you need higher speeds to turn effectivly. The periphery speed on a bowl is much higher, than when turning a slim spindle.

I base my opinion on being the owner of a Axminster M600 for the last 4 years, and it has taken some stick in that time. (I use it as a travelling lathe) This is the reason I would reccomend the cheaper Perform model. I believe the main difference being that the M600 has 6 pulley speeds, while the Perform model has 5. I do 95% of the work on the second highest speed and very seldom change the belt.

I am in the process of fitting variable speed to this lathe, but that is only for my own convenience.

Sorry for being so long winded, but IMHO variable speed is a luxury and is not needed to turn, but is so nice to have.

Hope this has been some help.


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

Thanks for the reply, Tam
I am planning primarily on turning bottle stoppers, small pot pourri bowls and other items probably with a max diameter of... hmm... 8inches.
Nothing larger than this really floats my boat, so I guess I'd be fine with a belt one.
Can anyone with a belt one describe the changing process? I know the mechanical theory behind it, but in practice, what is involved? I am guessing you need to detension the spindles, move the belt, retension belt and close up the cover?
For the mechanically minded, how long would it normally take to do a speed change, with a bit of practice?

Cheers, and thanks again!

Sam


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## TEP (28 May 2007)

Hi Sam.

Belt changing takes seconds with most lathes, certainly less than15 seconds in my case. 

Due to health and safety rules moving machinery has a 'locking device' on the belt area doors. On the cheaper lathes this is usually a machine screw.

What you do is replace the screw with a piece of threaded rod so as you can undo the cover by hand. Loosen the motor locking bolt (usually a 'Bristol Handle' take the motor weight off the belt, there is a lever fitted to the motor plate for this. 

Move the belt to which ever pulleys you require. There is a diagram of the pulley speeds on the lathe. Drop the motor back onto the belt, and lock. Close the cover, replace screw, and away you go.

As with everything the more you do it the easier it gets.

PS The small lathe I mentioned above is max. dia. of 8" I believe. Edit - my mistake it is 10" dia.


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## bobscarle (28 May 2007)

Thanks for your opinions and advise.

It is interesting what you say about torque, not something I had considered. This puts me in a bit of a predicament. I have looked on ebay and there does not appear to be much available secondhand.

I have looked at a couple of new lathes, this Sheppach http://www.diytools.co.uk/diy/Main/Product.asp?iProductID=37468 and this one from Axminster http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-M330-Wood-Turning-Lathe-29953.htm. Both lathes look quite substantial but neither come with tools. I could stretch to this much but would need to go cheap on the tools.

Maybe this is a better bet than the SIP.

Bob


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## paulm (28 May 2007)

Hi Bob,

You can always take your time and add the odd tool as you go and I think this is a better bet than getting a really cheap lathe which will tend to frustrate you and be more expensive to change.

Cheers, Paul.


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

chisel":2szf1ce8 said:


> Hi Bob,
> 
> You can always take your time and add the odd tool as you go and I think this is a better bet than getting a really cheap lathe which will tend to frustrate you and be more expensive to change.
> 
> Cheers, Paul.


Hi Paul.

Are you implying that the CCSL from Axminster would not be a good start, or are you saying that second hand wouldn't be a good idea?
Cheers 
Sam


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## Alf (28 May 2007)

fwiw I wouldn't consider the Perform much of a on/off the bench tool, at least if you value your back. Pretty heavy beast. Mind you I'm a weedy girlie, so...

Cheers, Alf


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

Alf":3vwsmklx said:


> fwiw I wouldn't consider the Perform much of a on/off the bench tool, at least if you value your back. Pretty heavy beast. Mind you I'm a weedy girlie, so...
> 
> Cheers, Alf


I assume that was aimed at Bob - It'll have prime benchtop space in my workshop


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## TEP (28 May 2007)

Hi again Bob. 

I think you'll find that the Sheppach you are looking at is the same lathe as the Axminster Perform CCSL lathe. Just a different colour. UAKD. The Axminster M330 is just the shorter length machine to the one I own (M600) when I bought mine it was £260. They have come down a lot. 

I believe the Perform machines are built down to a price, and on comparison the only difference I have seen is the lesser pulley speeds, and the welding flash has not really been cleaned off, and the colour.

As has already been mentioned, don't buy cheap chisels but just buy one or two as you go.


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## Alf (28 May 2007)

dovetail":2bfyq776 said:


> Alf":2bfyq776 said:
> 
> 
> > fwiw I wouldn't consider the Perform much of a on/off the bench tool, at least if you value your back. Pretty heavy beast. Mind you I'm a weedy girlie, so...
> ...


It was. No need to gloat.  :lol:


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

Alf":9xsu97gj said:


> dovetail":9xsu97gj said:
> 
> 
> > Alf":9xsu97gj said:
> ...


A gloat? A gloat? I can NEVER gloat on my workshop - it's 8x3 for heaven's sake!
Sam


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## bobscarle (28 May 2007)

Tam - I find it surprising that you say the Perform and the Sheppach lathes are the same, considering the price difference. The Perform is £110 and the Sheppach £152 or more. That makes the Axminister lathe exceptionally good value! But then I am one of those weedy blokes so I must take on board what Alf says about its weight. The Axminster M330 is 28Kg, the Perform 38Kg :? 

That does confuse me. I would have thought that a bench top lathe would have needed extra weight for stability. Is this not the case?

I have gone the cheap route on tools before, and, as so many have said, I have been disappointed. I certainly think, on this occasion at least, I will buy a couple of tools only. Maybe get some more later (Christmas sounds good).

Bob (who really doesn't know what to do)


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## dovetail2007 (28 May 2007)

bobscarle":1040pwty said:


> ...I am one of those weedy blokes so I must take on board what Alf says about its weight. The Axminster M330 is 28Kg, the Perform 38Kg ...



The extra 10kg is more than likely the bed extention, which makes the perform EVEN better value, as the fox bed extention is c.£50!

Sam


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## TEP (29 May 2007)

Hi Bob. 

As Sam says the Axminster is in 2 parts, you don't have to use both, but have the option. 

Bench top lathes normally would be bolted down onto the top, then generally the bench is full of tools/timber/what ever to give some dampening and weight. If you wish to have a mobile lathe, and don't want to bolt it down go for one that already has some weight built in. 

Don't get too hung up on a lathe, after all it is only a way of spinning a piece of wood and keeping it in the same place so as you can work on it. IMHO all wood lathes are vastly over priced for what you actually get for your dosh. Just compare a wood lathe against a equivalent sized metal turning lathe and look at the facilities and functions you get on the metal one. 

BUT if you want a wood lathe you pays your money, and so on. As woodturning has been a growing pastime over past years the prices of equipment could be sustained, but look around now and you can see some prices stabilizing or even coming down. IMO The growth of the woodturning market is no longer growing as it did, which is only to our benefit as the suppliers look for our custom.

Here endeth todays lesson- [-o< Only joking.


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