# More Infills not Landfills...Somebody stop me PLEASE! ;o)



## jimi43 (6 Dec 2010)

Ok guys and girls...I think now is the time to come out of the closet and state that, without doubt I am now a "collector" of infill planes...I seem to have a strange illness that prevents me from walking away from a sale without ownership and it's getting worse!

Take these three for evidence Millud....







Regular lurkers of the Collectibles>Tools & Hardware section of the infamous FleaBay might have spotted them as:






Not quite as vague as the old Tyzack I spotted recently so not quite a song at £68 but altogether worth every penny of that!

At first I thought these were just old ones and they are but they are old - NEW ones as they have never ever been finished....they don't even have mouths:






Above is the sole of the chariot...then






...the sole of the bullnose...then....






...the little shoulder....I didn't bother photographing the mouth but there isn't one (YET!)

So...one minute you think you have nothing to do in the workshop and then three "buses" come along at once...

Ho Hum!

:ho2 

WIP pics on the finishing later.....this _*could*_ take a while! :wink: 

Jim


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## AndyT (6 Dec 2010)

Ok I've an idea of how to stop yourself - why not take them to a boot fair and flog them off for a fiver each? 

- _and give someone else a chance!_

Seriously though, nice haul (again!). You have set yourself quite a challenge there. 

If you do feel that it's all too much for you, and do want the bootsale option, I'll be generous and let you hold it in our garden if you like!!


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## Pvt_Ryan (6 Dec 2010)

Congrats on your coming out..  

Now we can start the road to recovery.

Step 1: Convert the shells to working infills with lots of pics. (the more pics the better your recovery)


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## GazPal (6 Dec 2010)

Jammy devil.  

Great starting points for a nice set of three truly handy plane styles and sizes.

I second the vote for a Garden Boot Fair at Jim's in the hopefully thawed out future.


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## hanser (6 Dec 2010)

Jim 

Don't forget the medication


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## big soft moose (6 Dec 2010)

jimi43":sx0upfkh said:


>



so thats where i put the sanding block  :lol:


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## rileytoolworks (6 Dec 2010)

Aah, so t'was you who outbid me!
Glad they're in good hands, though I'm sorry I didn't win.
Best of luck, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with them.

Adam.


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## MickCheese (6 Dec 2010)

Aces and Eights":m0xf36t4 said:


> Aah, so t'was you who outbid me!
> Glad they're in good hands, though I'm sorry I didn't win.
> Best of luck, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what you do with them.
> 
> Adam.



So, had you two not been fighting against each other you could have had them at a lower price. :roll: 

Seems we need a code thread. Aunty Ethel is at the supermarket, or something.

Mick


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## jimi43 (6 Dec 2010)

MickCheese":2d5cg6ba said:


> Aces and Eights":2d5cg6ba said:
> 
> 
> > Aah, so t'was you who outbid me!
> ...



I think there were quite a number of Europeans...a German and a Pole who were bidding too...so your idea would probably not work...

Had that been the case though...I would have snapped three apparently "rusty" blobs up for £2.99 :ho2 

Sorry to have outbid you Adam....I promise I will take care of them!

Just a teaser..I think these are going to be boxwood...or maybe not...mmmm

I wonder where they were stored these many decades....anyone hazard a guess as to their origin given the limited info?

Jim


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## MickCheese (7 Dec 2010)

Looking forward to seeing some results.

Mick


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## studders (7 Dec 2010)

jimi43":333mv1jr said:


> they have never ever been finished....they don't even have mouths:
> 
> 
> Jim



Can't you send them back as 'Faulty , Not as described' ?


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## jimi43 (8 Dec 2010)

HA! Studders...that is somewhere they ain't going!

I actually emailed the seller and they came from the workshop of a deceased carpenter...Heaven knows what he was going to do with them. My guess is that he or his father bought them in the days when castings were the "norm" and were often finished by apprentices as "kits" to make planes that were otherwise too expensive to buy completed.

I so much wanted the seller to know the whole history...this is part of the fun...but alas...that is all I could find out.

I was going to start with the shoulder or the bullnose because I have some clue as to how to deal with these but in the end...I put them aside to tackle the difficult one first.. the gorgeous little chariot!

Here is another shot of the raw casting....






These have had not preliminary finishing whatever...and are not bad castings...just a tad rough.

The first step as advised by Aled...is to start with a reference...the sole...and get it flat and smooth while ensuring it is coplanar with the bed against which the iron will rest.....

I don't like getting metal anywhere near my woodworking gear normally but without doubt...the tool for this job is my disc sander bed...






I need to put some rough grit on it but for now...I just wanted to see if this would level it out...it did a reasonable job but the casting pits are a tad deep and this could take a while...






So the sole is getting flat in a coplanar way...and so I hit one side too...to get them at 90 degrees...






....again...more aggressive grit is needed...but it's showing me what is under the rough casting and I am starting to smile and think of wood infill!

I enjoyed the front...it gives me hope as to how the remaining plane will look...






...so...all in all...very encouraging...






The main problem is the cold...I still have about 2 feet of snow on the roof of my workshop which is steel and I think it will be next to pointless trying to heat the place until the weather gets above zero...which ain't happening allegedly until next week...we shall see!

Cheers

Jim


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## lanemaux (8 Dec 2010)

Keep up the work in progress pics amigo. Looking good from here. Cannot wait to see what woods get earmarked for your new toys (new to you I mean). Really like your disc sanding table as well , wish I had one . May need to try a build of something similar. With all the ideas I pick up here I may need larger basement to house it all. Keep us informed so we can live it all vicariously, thnx amigo.


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## Richard T (8 Dec 2010)

What's this Jim? Stooping to mere castings?? [-X .... :lol: 

Looking good and will eventually be superb planes I'm sure. Though I really don't envy you of the task of opening the mouths. Any thoughts so far? 
I'm guessing the shoulder and bull nose could be sawn through but the chariot will have to be drilled?
My top tip about working on planes in this weather is to leave as much of the stuff you'll be handling in a warm place over the night before. This strategy has been working for me right up until the last couple of days when it has become just stupidly cold out there. :deer


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## yetloh (8 Dec 2010)

jimi43":19sumv3s said:


> So...one minute you think you have nothing to do in the workshop and then three "buses" come along at once...
> 
> Ho Hum!
> 
> ...



Have you considered making some furniture? I find it quite therapeutic and it may even distract from the infill lust/addiction, although I must admit to having expensive "form" here.

Jim


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## Pvt_Ryan (8 Dec 2010)

Damn you Jim, I'm actually on the edge of my seat waiting for more pics.. Bring the tools into the house and use the kitchen table.


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## jimi43 (8 Dec 2010)

Hi Mike

Thanks for the encouraging words...the sander came out of the need to have something that could replicate angles...and I have to admit it is boon here.

I just realised I have a number of turning faceplates...so a few more MDF discs, each with a different grit and I won't even have to change the paper until it wears out....on the case on that one. The next thing I need to build is a tiny belt job....I think one of those abrasive wand thingies would do the trick!. More on those later.....

Hi Richard



> Though I really don't envy you of the task of opening the mouths. Any thoughts so far?



This is going to be a challenge...the lateral brain is on overtime on that one Richard.....will be sure to post ideas and techniques...when I get them!  



> Have you considered making some furniture? I find it quite therapeutic and it may even distract from the infill lust/addiction, although I must admit to having expensive "form" here.



Furniture!? What's that? :mrgreen: Actually...I find furniture quite boring...apart from restoration...I actually find planes quite intriguing...not one is the same...they all have their own history and restoration problems. Once I get a full set and get bored with planes...I might make some...um....errr....furniture? :mrgreen: 

I have time off now until Friday morning so going to clear out the son's room and move a bench in there!...I've had enough of this freezing weather!

Jim


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## Pvt_Ryan (8 Dec 2010)

Opening the mouths, the easiest way I can think of is pillar drill a start and end point big enough for a band saw or coping saw blade, then just go along to make a hole for a set of mini files and use them to widen, changing to larger files if/when possible.


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## jimi43 (8 Dec 2010)

Pvt_Ryan":3cdacb9d said:


> Opening the mouths, the easiest way I can think of is pillar drill a start and end point big enough for a band saw or coping saw blade, then just go along to make a hole for a set of mini files and use them to widen, changing to larger files if/when possible.



Agreed! But with the chariot I think that the thickness in the proximity of the mouth is actually quite small. I have chatted to Aled about this and obviously, I need to take the sole down enough to clear the pits...and once I do that I will measure the remaining thickness.

I think it will either just appear or there will be little left to knock out. The position where the mouth is located is actually imprinted in the casting...I have a feeling this is the way it will work.

Jim


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## jimi43 (8 Dec 2010)

Ok...the progress this afternoon...and chip in when anyone wants to suggest an alternative direction please...

I came to the conclusion that I need the geometry to revolve around the iron...so just a bit of measuring next...





First to measure the width of the iron which comes in at 1.32" so I guess that an iron of 1 1/4" would suffice...






Taking into account the mouth on my little Isaac...it is quite tight so I guess as long as I am making the iron anyway...I can taylor it to fit...or should I go for standard size here?






Of course the fettling will be in parallel with creating the iron...I am just out of 01 steel at the moment so need to order some more from my supplier...some nice thick stuff I think...

And of course...to select the infill wood...which can go ahead while I figure out the mouth.

More later....perhaps tomorrow!

Jim


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## Richard T (9 Dec 2010)

I'm not sure about why plane irons have to have movement side to side - never known why there should be any probs if they aren't and are sharpened square. If it were me, I'd make 'em/buy 'em as near as xxxx it. If too wide they can be ground but if too narrow there are no grubscrews to correct them, just more work setting them square every time.
I would guess that a nice, flat iron would benefit no end from being held by a very accurately made wedge under a flat undersided bridge. 
Which brings me back to what I said before - I don't envy you cutting the mouths. They are all bevel up - so the last of the frog slopes have to be parallel with the ends of the irons to give uniform support, and the fronts of mouths need to be tight (and square) enough to do non break-out with just enough room for the shaving to easily escape. .... some highly accurate sawing/boring/filing here I fear.
..


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## GazPal (9 Dec 2010)

Very nice purchase and set of projects Jim. :wink: 

Have you considered openng the mouths via a slitting action using the edge of a cutting disc of a suitable diameter? This is similar to cutting blind fret slots in unbound guitar fingerboards and would allow you to hand finish each end and both faces of the mouth after completing the straight disc cut. A simple jig should allow you to mount the plane body square to the disc and you could make a slotted guard for the disc that allows only the amount of cutting edge needed for each plunge cutting operation. Planting a small pilot hole at each extreme end of the mouth should help prevent marring and help provide a visible reference if the piece is viewed from above and with the plane body between yourself and the cutting disc. 

Lateral adjustment (Leaway between blade sides and mouth/body) simply allows you to vary the cut from square to off-square if necessary, but also allowing for adjustment if a blade has been accidentally ground out of square.


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## jimi43 (9 Dec 2010)

Hi Guys

Thank you so much for your deliberations...this is what I love...the collective brain and experience that is the UKW!

So...I need leaway...and 1 1/4" parallel it is then.

Also I have a plan to cut the mouth with a jig for my Dremel which will be like a mini-table saw with rise and fall and allow cutting discs, mounted on the chuck....to rise and fall into the metal creating the slot. Exaclty like blind frets cutting from underneath against reference pinholes.

I am lucky in that I have little Isaac to take reference geometry from:







This little baby was a 20p rumble purchase at the end of a bootfair one mid-summer morning...all I had left in my pocket and I hate going home without maximising the value of residual small change...don'tcha know! :mrgreen: 

Why do I feel a Proxxon purchase coming on this Christmas? Do you reckon they consitute "tree presents" owing to their size? :ho2 

Jim


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## bugbear (9 Dec 2010)

jimi43":29pi0yv7 said:


> > Though I really don't envy you of the task of opening the mouths. Any thoughts so far?
> 
> 
> 
> This is going to be a challenge...the lateral brain is on overtime on that one Richard.....will be sure to post ideas and techniques...when I get them!



It might be worth trying to find the instructions (or WIPs) from SJBTC projects - they sold (and still sell) infill castings.

BugBear


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## jimi43 (9 Dec 2010)

Good idea BB...I hadn't thought of that! I used to read up on the St James stuff ages ago and completely forgot that they still did kits.

Looking at their website afresh...I see the little bullnose they have is very similar to the casting I have. 

At first I was a little confuse about the bed angle but it all makes sense now if you follow the curve of the aperture and then intersect this with the bed line...clearly the sole needs skimming...






Intriguing stuff this!

Jim


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## jimi43 (13 Dec 2010)

Today I decided to at least try one of my infills with box...

I have a little bit which really isn't much use for anything else other than a handle for a chisel or screwdriver but does have a fascinating knot in it...so I thought I would make a wedge to see what's underneath the bark.






I whittled up an iron from some very old original...working on the basis that a) I don't have a stock of suitable 01 at the moment and b) it's too bleedin' cold to go outside and fire up the kiln even if I did have some!

It actually fits beautifully...I think it was an Isaac Greaves one...but it was too wide so I ground it down to fit.

I have also run out of course paper wide enough for my disc sander so I have been taking it down by hand...nearly there but some way to go yet...






Just a few pits left on one side which is quite annoying...once I am down below these I will lap it properly.

I have managed to keep it coplanar with the bed...and actually...the bed is quite flat really...just needs to be milled out.

I have a tiny end mill (courtesy of my wife's dental surgery..) which fits my Dremel so now all I have to do it make a jig to act as a milling machine and I should be able to machine it down quite easily.

I have also determined exactly where the mouth needs to be now I have the iron to work with and it is slap bang in the middle of the indent from the casting...so all is well there.

More later....I can't wait to see what is under that knurly bit of knot!....I'm hoping that I can at least approach emulating the great Bill Carter...he uses box to great effect..






Simply beautiful!

Jim


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## Harbo (14 Dec 2010)

Here's another Box one - my one and only BC!






Rod 

It's about 25mm long, but a genuine one - bought direct from the maker.


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## jimi43 (18 Dec 2010)

Ok....got the course abrasive on the sander and finished the sole grinding...and the mouth...so from this:






....to this....






The mouth turned out to be rather easier than I thought it would be....the method was to mark out the position where it needed to be and then starting from below in the middle and at a slight backward angle, use an abrasive disc on a Dremel.

If you don't move and you keep it steady...those discs cut really well and I managed to break through and then cut each way...following the line by eye to the edge. The disc only broke when I snagged it at the end of the final cut!

Then it was just a case of using a needle file to expand it towards the front...and finally use a four-square file to tidy it all up. I did this before I ground the sole further so that I could then grind down enough to line up the end of the iron bevel perfectly and have it just appear...






There is a few thou to go...but it is going in the right direction.

So...what started out as a rusty casting....





....is now ready for final bevel and infill....






Back later with more....

Jim


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## Pvt_Ryan (18 Dec 2010)

Nice job.. Can't wait to see more


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## Aled Dafis (19 Dec 2010)

Lovely, you're doing a grand job there!!

I assumed for some reason that the casting was bronze, but it looks equally as good in steel.

Just a word of caution, keep an eye on the flatness of your sole, as the outside of the disk sander will remove material quicker than towards the centre. As you've ground the sole, I'd expect the rear of the plane to have more material removed than the toe, and possibly also to be slightly convex. You've probably already thought of this, but I thought it wise to mention it, just in case.

Carry on with the good work, I can't wait for the next installment.

Cheers
Aled


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## jimi43 (19 Dec 2010)

Aled Dafis":28tcfigg said:


> Lovely, you're doing a grand job there!!
> 
> I assumed for some reason that the casting was bronze, but it looks equally as good in steel.
> 
> ...



Cheers PR...very kind of you....

And you too Aled. I take it you are snowed in tight!

Regarding the disc sander...I routinely work one way then the other to even out any bias...the picture shows a final whisk to make a nice pattern and the sole is dead flat and at right angles to the sides.

Yes...these are cast steel indeed....bronze is my favourite...actually gunmetal is...but these are all steel hence the rust on the original castings. Of course this makes for better wearing soles...and the edge is very very crisp...so crisp in fact I nearly cut my hand on it so will need to take the edge off a tad....once I have done the bevel.

In fact I still have a ways to go on the sole...I want to bring the thickness down a tad to line up the mouth that way. I want to keep the mouth as tight as possible so if I grind to the point where the seat is totally as a point to the sole...it should be perfect.

More later...I am out in the shop tonight to get the last bits done.

Cheers

Jim


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## jimi43 (22 Dec 2010)

If anyone here is a painter they will realise how difficult it is to take some handmade watercolour paper...costing a fortune...stretch it over a board and then take the plunge with the first wash....well cutting into a large lump of pretty rare boxwood is ten times more frightening!

But I bit the bullet and once again was make acutely aware why I love this wood so very much...

It really is the Rolls Royce of British hardwoods...

So...the large lump pictured here on the left:






....from some monster hedge laid down in 1981...was finally chosen for the infill for the "Ebay Three!!"

First the wedge...I want to follow Bill C's thinking that parallel edges are far more beautiful and so (for now) am following his genius...rough shaping so far:






...getting the wedge angle correct...the toe reach and the amount left trailing is quite something I didn't want to make an error on with such precious stock....and I managed to get the geometry right first time...

The iron laid down perfectly...just a touch of the sole released the tip of the bevel....and the mouth remains very fine....






....the block for the front is roughed out to make the front infill...now I just need to decide on whether to lay it flat across the cavity ala Carter or to echo the back contour as found in a number of vintage models....






I couldn't resist a little test...before a final hone on the bevel which I will do this afternoon but initical cuts are very fine...if not slightly out of alignment (at the mo!)






Now I just need to bring the wedge contour down a tad...lose a bit of plumpness there...cut a nice indent in it to match and then sort out the front infill..oh...and make the chamfers....

This is fun!

Jim


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## Richard T (23 Dec 2010)

My word... that's looking good there Jim. Box is good - you have another Box fan.
Keep up the good work.


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## jimi43 (23 Dec 2010)

Getting a bit closer now...but it's getting late so will do more tomorrow.....

The front infill is loose fitted...this will need to be shaped when I get my head around what would be the best shape...at the moment it is just a block...but luck with the stock means that the interesting knots are exactly where I want them....






I sharpened the iron a bit more and it takes very fine shavings so I need to do more tests tomorrow too...






The sole needs lapping too...then to shape the wedge and add detail....the bed infill needs sorting and I have blunt flattened a couple of chisels...a gouge for the concave bits and a firmer for the flat bits...(this is a technique again recommended by Bill Carter and really works!)

I am rather glad I have chosen boxwood...something I have wanted to do for ages and get away from my favourite rosewood for a while...I will age it with raw linseed oil after I have the bits shaped....I like the idea of the more mellow orange look....

So...lots more to do but getting there slowly...the worst part is over now...the mouth...so I can now concentrate on refining the look of this little cutie.....






I think this will be a keeper...can't wait to put my stamp on it....

Later....

Jim


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## MickCheese (23 Dec 2010)

Astonishing.

You need a before and after picture with them next to each other just to get the difference.

Really nice, I see this as art as well as tool reclamation.

Congratulations.

Mick


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## Aled Dafis (23 Dec 2010)

What a grand job you're doing there Jim, it looks superb. I can't wait to see the finished article.

Cheers

Aled


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## stoatyboy (24 Dec 2010)

simply gorgeous


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## jimi43 (27 Dec 2010)

Gentlemen...I thank you most kindly. 

One of the greatest things about restoration is the rebirth of something that was once someone's pride and joy...to live again as that of another.

But this is different. It is not a rebirth...rather a birth...as these castings have never before shaved anything....and so the responsibility of interpreting the maker of the casting and doing it justice is both frightening and thrilling for me.

As Mick said....now is probably time to do a bit of a side by side...as I am confident that short of a few blemishes and some more bevel work...we are nearly there in terms of completeness...so....here is the egg...






....and finally...the embryo has moved to the next stage...






The fat teenager has slimmed down...the wedge is now slender and the front handle is now a flowing replica of the back curves.






I like curves...but more...I needed a thumb grip...and this works really well...






It's a bit rough at the moment....and needs finishing and gluing and removing a few scratches from the wood and the metal, but nothing major...






I also need to get out the warm raw linseed oil...but that's for tomorrow...while I finish the bevel and can see better in good clear daylight...

But for now...I am starting to love this little baby...she is quite a looker now!






More later....don'tcha just LURVE English boxwood! 8) 

Jim


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## jimi43 (27 Dec 2010)

While the Araldite Original sets the front infill in place...the wedge was shaped...I like the cupid's bow for a front to reflect the one I shall do in the wedge bridge....






...and then the wedge was soaked in raw linseed oil all day...(I love that smell) and then given UV treatment.

The linseed had the effect of heightening the grain and mellowing the wood but also showing up the marks created by tapping the wedge under the bridge. 






I am not overly concerned about this as the wedge will spend most of its life under the bridge anyway. The key objective of bringing out the wonderful knots has worked as I wanted....

The best thing to come out of today was the success of the 3M Micromesh lapping film. I wanted to try this out on wood rather than the usual purpose of sharpening a bevel...so the top and sides of the wedge were rubbed down to remove the disc sander marks....starting with blue and working up to white. There is no finish on this wedge at the moment and the only thing that will ever be used on it will be the linseed oil. 

I shall have to make a shopping trip to Matt again soon!

I do hope you all had a wonderful Christmas....have fun in the shop in the New Year!

Jim


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## MickCheese (28 Dec 2010)

Jim

That looks fantastic. Congratulations. =D> 

You should be very proud of your achievement.

Mick


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## ali27 (29 Dec 2010)

Nice work! Keep it up. Looks attractive, handsome.

I am waiting for a infill smoother made by you from scratch (hammer) 

I see you are quite fond of the boxwood, aren't you :lol: 

Ali


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## jimi43 (31 Dec 2010)

Hi Mick and Ali

Yup...I promise that very soon I will start whittling steel and bronze from scratch. I already have the peining experience with the Aled shoulder and now I am getting to grips again with steel....although I must say it is not my most favourite medium...I enjoy the wood bits much more...makes nicer mess too!

As I make the final touches to the chariot (I might refine the front infill a bit)...I thought I would knock down the shoulder to see how much work is necessary.







The sole is working fine...(more on that later)....and the sides are coming together...I just need to change my abrasive wheel again...so the most critical bit again is the bed...and that has my attention now...

There is a rather large amount of steel to be removed from the bed...which is a nightmare as it is not exactly accessible...but some new Nicholsons may sort that out...just waiting for them to arrive.

I also need to get some more 01 steel as I have run out...and I want to move up to a higher gauge for these last two...

More later...

Jim


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## pedder (31 Dec 2010)

Hi Jimi,

I somehow missed the box wood plane. My 5 Year old ist sitting with me and said: Wow ist der Hobel schön! (Wow is that plane beautiful!)

I can not say it better!

Cheers 
Pedder


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## jimi43 (31 Dec 2010)

pedder":1gl7qben said:


> Hi Jimi,
> 
> I somehow missed the box wood plane. My 5 Year old ist sitting with me and said: Wow ist der Hobel schön! (Wow is that plane beautiful!)
> 
> ...



Hi Pedder...I think that for all the nice "reactions"...that is one I will cherish for a long time.

I was going to fiddle (tweak) the design but I will leave it as it is now! Tell your son "thank you" from me!

Jim


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## jimi43 (1 Jan 2011)

The shoulder is coming along nicely...











Whilst fettling the steel though...I noticed two things...firstly that the casting is very thin on the near front ear...and secondly the bed has a raised platform with ridges about 1/8" into both sides....

This won't affect the mouth...which worked out quite nicely...











The latter I can cope with..it just means more work in a rather tricky place but the front ear is another problem

It means that the infill is going to have to overstuff the ears or it will show...

I am trying to find a vintage example where this is done but I am not doing very well on Google...

Any ideas chaps?

Jim


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## AndyT (2 Jan 2011)

jimi43":thj63l0m said:


> but the front ear is another problem
> 
> It means that the infill is going to have to overstuff the ears or it will show...
> 
> ...



I've had a bit of a look around - you probably found most of these.

Norris used a similar sort of shape:






(image from the Museum of Woodworking Tools at http://www.antiquetools.com)

Sauer and Steiner have used a similar shape - especially neatly done I think:






(from their blog at http://sauerandsteiner.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html

Some examples raise both ends people making a practical shape for pushing or pulling - this one is a nameless one for sale at Old School Tools: (http://www.oldschooltools.co.uk/index.php?p=1_8_Infill-Planes






while this more extreme one is from Peter McBride






(from Peter McBride's gallery at http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking/gallery/)


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## TheTiddles (4 Jan 2011)

If that ear is uniformly thin, then you might be able to solder a slip of steel to the inside, as it's only cosmetic then you don't need to worry about a perfect mechanical joint, just enough that when cleaned back it looks like a solid piece of steel. For that matter, even metal loaded opoxy could work

aidan


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## jimi43 (4 Jan 2011)

Hi Andy/Aidan

Yes....it's been a bit of a journey but the uniformity of the sides was more down to the casting irregularity on the thicker ear than the thinner one. It needed grinding inside to bring the entire edge together correctly. There was still a difference but it is marginal now...something I think that one has to expect with such old castings.

The infill that I am testing is working out quite well...this one will be overstuffed...something which is remarkably difficult to do and requires quite a bit of hand work. I am about 50% done so far but enough to show you the work in progress...






There is some levelling out to do...but I am getting there...






Against my better judgement...I am doing all the carving with no iron yet to test it...the 01 steel does not come until next week.

I had thought of getting a Clifton 3110 from Matt but he confirmed today the dimensions and it is a tad thin in the tang region and the adjuster insert will modernise an otherwise antique plane.

I need to be more patient and wait until the steel arrives...brave the weather and drag the kiln out for a further firing!

It's coming on though....teaching me loads of things which will serve me well in the future!






Jim


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## Pvt_Ryan (4 Jan 2011)

As always stunning craftsmanship Jim.. Keep up the good work, looking forward to more pics.


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## jimi43 (18 Jan 2011)

Just a quick update...

STILL waiting for the 01 steel! It has not arrived and I am pulling my hair out wanting to finish the shoulder plane! Oh well...patience Jim, patience!

So I fiddled around with the iron for the chariot today...I still need to regrind it a tad as it is a little too far off square for the available adjustment but it's nearly there. I thought it was about time I made some test shavings so here ya go...






This little darling performs beautifully!! I know I will mostly use it for end grain and it actually sliced that with no problem at all...(the little shavings...to point this stick of cherry...)






...but I couldn't resist some long grain...and the shavings were easily made...continuous and wafer thin...






...still working on the bevelling....






So tomorrow I shall square off the bevel and try again...I think the mouth is just right...time to put the infill inside methinks!

Cheers all.

Jim


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## Richard T (18 Jan 2011)

So, good for end grain as well as long grain; sounds like the ideal plane for finishing er ..... infills. #-o 
I don't think there can be another slope quite so self perpetuating. 

Looking good there Jim


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## jimi43 (18 Jan 2011)

> So, good for end grain as well as long grain; sounds like the ideal plane for finishing er ..... infills. #-o
> I don't think there can be another slope quite so self perpetuating.
> 
> Looking good there Jim





HA!!! Yup...I think you may have hit the nail on the head there Richard!

Proof of this has to be the fact that the single most important plane in the construction of this one is using Isaac, my first infill and baby chariot!

Actually Richard....I think I am slipping back slowly to Victorian times....I pulled out my hand grinder (thanks ALF for reminding me about them!) yesterday and refurbished it....

It works fantastically! Brilliant! The major problem was that the handle release did not work...it was rusted up. Ten minutes and some remedial work later...it released and transformed the machine from a lump on the bottom shelf to a _*very*_ useful machine!

More about that in another thread!

Cheers mate!

Jim


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## jimi43 (18 Jan 2011)

Finally reground the iron today so that it was square and I hit various wood samples....






It cuts really well for a small plane and fits well in the palm of the hand.

I need to smooth off the tail end of the iron a tad as it was quite sharp in the palm but will do that tomorrow.

I also thought the front infill was a little high so brought that down a bit...I think I could go even further to make the look more balanced...






...but that's for tomorrow....

Cheers

Jim


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## jimi43 (24 Jan 2011)

Ok back to the shoulder now that the 01 steel is here!

One of the more fun things I learned recently was the amazing cutting ability of the Dremel with cut-off discs....






...and the use of a strong magnet to catch all the steel filings!






It's really amazingly easy to cut a straight line freehand once the initial groove is made with little need for filing at the end. The magnet does not allow any filings to escape so not horrible bits flying around either!

Ok the initial shaping done it was over to the Creusen wide white wheel to grind the 25 degree bevel...






...leaving enough width to trim down when I am finished....the mouth turned out really tight and exactly right...






....and the bed is almost perfect....






What I intend to do now is stick some graded abrasive lapping film to the back of the iron and then lap the iron into the bed so that it is perfect...although it's not far off now!






After that I will grind some side bevels on and then harden the iron on Wednesday...make the wedge and we are nearly done...apart from some tarting up of the metal finish a bit.

There is something hugely satisfying making your own irons!

More later!


Jim


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## Richard T (25 Jan 2011)

Don't know if you've done the heat treat yet Jim, but would it be easier to get the width closer to right beforehand? 
It's going to be ahellofalot tougher to grind afterwards. 
And what quenchant are you going to use btw?


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## jimi43 (25 Jan 2011)

Richard T":3s5nswrv said:


> Don't know if you've done the heat treat yet Jim, but would it be easier to get the width closer to right beforehand?
> It's going to be ahellofalot tougher to grind afterwards.
> And what quenchant are you going to use btw?



Hi Richard....

Indeed...I shall be trimming it up in all areas and putting on a layered sneck before hardening.

I will harden at 780 degrees and quench in pure vegetable oil as usual.

Jim


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## xy mosian (25 Jan 2011)

You probably know this already, if which case sorry  In the shoulder plane I have, Record jobby, the iron is slightly wider(0.5 - 0.75 mm) than the body of the plane to make sure it can cut into the corners. Just thought I'd mention it before you made yours narrower.

Another smashing job by the way.

xy


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2011)

xy mosian":3003ik8p said:


> You probably know this already, if which case sorry  In the shoulder plane I have, Record jobby, the iron is slightly wider(0.5 - 0.75 mm) than the body of the plane to make sure it can cut into the corners. Just thought I'd mention it before you made yours narrower.
> 
> Another smashing job by the way.
> 
> xy



Hi XY

Thanks for the tip...it makes sense so I have made the iron exactly like you say...just a tad over the edge. I can trim it down later if it is oversized.

The infill in the bed is now in and I now need to make a float to fine tune it but that will be for later...it is close enough at the moment to start the wedge...leaving a little tightness to take up the play.

So to the wedge....






I have been quite lucky here as the remaining piece of stock I had rendered a nice little knot or two.....






...the bed is now tight....






Tomorrow I need to shape the back with a roundness to continue the "overstuffed" look.

Later....

Jim


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2011)

Wonderful surprise this week...from a very dear friend of ours on this forum....a "little" gift:






The tiny miniature Veritas shoulder plane.

What a masterpiece of engineering it is!

Indeed...I put it to use straight away....the makeshift "float" that I made to line up and flatten the bed of the old shoulder plane....needed the very edges tidying up...and this little darling fits INSIDE the old one!











When I first heard about these little darlings I thought it was a bit of a gimmick and to be honest, it would not have been on my list of necessary purchases....

But as a gift....I got to try it and I must say...it would go where other planes have not been before and work just as well as any of its big brothers from the Canadian stable!

I will do a mini review later...but for now...a HUGE thanks to my forum buddy who shall remain nameless...you have shown me one tool that has surprised the hell out of me!

Jim


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2011)

Further fiddling with the wedge this evening:






I made the decision to make the wedge overhang the tang of the iron because, in my experience, shoulder plane irons can dig in to the palm at this size where single handed use is common.






It needs more raw linseed oil....and to darken it up but that will be for later....

I will probably fiddle with the shape a bit more and also the toe but for now I am quite happy with the vintage square shape and it is very comfortable in the palm.

I have to harden and temper the iron next probably over the weekend...and then I can cut some shavings....

Later...

Jim


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## AndyT (3 Feb 2011)

Anyone else reminded of Thunderbird 4 tucked safely inside Thunderbird 1?


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## Alf (3 Feb 2011)

Not until now, no. :lol:

Looks good, Jim. =D>


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## Scouse (3 Feb 2011)

AndyT":bbo6pc81 said:


> Anyone else reminded of Thunderbird 4 tucked safely inside Thunderbird 1?



Twas Thunderbird 2; Thunderbird 1 was the rocket powered plane.

I'm just off to have a look for a life on ebay...


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## yetloh (3 Feb 2011)

Lovely work, as ever, Jim.


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## jimi43 (3 Feb 2011)

Thanks for the feedback guys and gals!

Having stared at the wedge for a while and following other PM feedback...I think I need to round the tail a bit to more closely follow the curves of the metal casting....






It's something that can be done later but can't be put back, so I will think about it for a while...

I'll have to be careful though...getting too close to that knot!






Once the linseed oil has taken effect though...the boxwood takes on a beautiful patina with real character and is really tough stuff...the amount of pressure required for the stamp was incredible..I was worried about it cracking!

Now that little bullnose is teasing...but must be patient....got to get the iron hardended first and make some shavings with the shoulder!

Jim


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## Dangermouse (3 Feb 2011)

Fantastic work Jim, Great to see those planes put into such amazing shape. I bet they are a joy to use.

George


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## bugbear (4 Feb 2011)

jimi43":1a3x0s9t said:


> is really tough stuff...the amount of pressure required for the stamp was incredible..I was worried about it cracking!



You say pressure - were you hitting the stamp with a hammer, or using a press of some kind?

BugBear


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## AndyT (4 Feb 2011)

Looking great Jim - fantastic work shown off by equally impressive photos. 

But looking at those finely sculptured forms, I'm sure I'm not the only one who wants to pick them up and hold them, and feel how the shapes fit the user's hands. 

So if we all ask nicely, can you organise a WH-style passaround? I'm _sure_ there's no risk at all of any of these lovelies getting lost in the post, so I'll volunteer to put my name at the top of the list!

=P~


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## jimi43 (4 Feb 2011)

Oh, 'eck! Oh, fiddle! Oh, ca-rumbs!! DM! Thank you!  

BB...."press" mate. I am looking for a hydraulic one....or a fly press and I have seen some pretty superb DIY designs involving a bottle jack and an H frame. But for now I use a very big Record vice clamped in my bench vice. A Heath Robinson fence prevents movement and the wedge lays on the fixed jaw, the stamp is placed on top of a guide line and pressure exerted by the moving jaw.

I tried hitting with a hammer and with softwood that is ok but the side grain or even end grain of boxwood does not impress enough to get it deep enough.

Andy...are you going to Ye Olde Kent Bashe? I could bring them to that but not sure I trust the Royal Mail enough to make multiple postal risks....unless you can think of a guaranteed way of doing it? :lol: 

Jim


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## AndyT (4 Feb 2011)

jimi43":9tefqynz said:


> Andy...are you going to Ye Olde Kent Bashe? I could bring them to that but not sure I trust the Royal Mail enough to make multiple postal risks....unless you can think of a guaranteed way of doing it? :lol:
> 
> Jim




- I only meant it as a compliment, not a serious suggestion! Keep them all safe indoors!


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## jimi43 (9 Feb 2011)

Hi Andy

I wasn't quite sure there mate...but thank you for your compliment...

I will bring it to the YOKB II so you can play with it if you are coming...?

Well...I am really happy today...firstly because this hardening business with the kiln is now becoming second nature to me and the temperature control and tempering are getting done with far more accuracy and evidenced by the resultant hardness and keeness of the edge...here is the iron...






One thing with the 01 steel that I get is that it is textured and dipping it in oil causes blackening which is a nightmare to get out of the grain. However...in order to create an apparently aged look...this is a bonus as a quick whip on the wire wheel and then the buffer makes it look antique...which is just what I wanted...and it sits beautifully in the mouth...






So...how does it shave? Well there is only one word for it...superbly!

Here is a piece of rough-sawn cherry that I chose to test it with a rebate...






Before is on the left :roll: and after on the right :mrgreen: 

It makes that whizzing noise....and this was deep set so if I were to fiddle with it I could get a MUCH finer cut but I wanted to play so...






....the finish is like silk....






...this is FUN!






Well....I'm really happy with this little baby...the iron taps in really well...I might put a bottom sneck on it but not sure yet...it's fairly easy to set well...and once set for a job needs no adjustment at all.






So...now off to fiddle with the toe of the wedge to prevent shaving bunching with my favourite plough pattern...polish off the bevels and generally tidy it up to remove scratches but I'll leave you all with this...






More later!

Jim


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## Kalimna (9 Feb 2011)

Inspirational stuff yet again 

Adam


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## jimi43 (9 Feb 2011)

Cheers Adam....

I decided to test out how fine a cut I could achieve and backed the iron off a smidgen....on a previously rough cut scrap of mahogany the finish rendered was nothing short of perfect...






Indeed, the edge was so fine on the final piece of wood I cut the end of my finger on it...like a paper cut! (homer) 

And how thin are the shavings....well the're this thin...






So this little shoulder plane should prove quite a handy tool in my infill arsenal!






Now....where IS that little bullnose...... :mrgreen: 

Cheers lads and lasses....

Jim


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## Richard T (13 Feb 2011)

Cracking job Jim. 

I was wondering if the O1 steel you bought was annealed or just normalised? 

I have great trouble annealing as to do it properly I would need a very well insulated environment - which, out in the barn, ain't going to happen any time soon. People who do it professionally would use a kiln to get up to non - magnetic then to cool down very slowly indeed (24hours +) still in the kiln. If you could do this with yours, you could give any blade the best treatment by thoroughly annealing prior to hardening. 
Just a thought. I have them occasionally.


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## jimi43 (13 Feb 2011)

Hi Richard

Thanks for you kind words mate. How is your infill smoother coming on?

Do you know...I hadn't considered the annealing part of the job...the label just talks of hardening and tempering...



> Hardening
> From a 500deg (930F) preheat, raise pieces to 790deg - 815degC (1450-1500F) according to size, hold sufficient time for temperature to become uniform, but do not soak longer than necessary. Quench into oil which should be conveniently placed to avoid heat loss.
> 
> Tempering
> ...



This will be the third iron I have made so far with this steel and each has had extensive testing on various hardwoods and the smoother and large shoulder get used every time I need a plane for that purpose..so far the edges have stayed keen and razor sharp.

So I can only assume that it is pre-annealed...or if not..raising the temperature to hardening from room to maximum does the trick. With the kiln there is infinitely more control than with a forge or blowlamp.

I might try annealing the next one to see if it makes any difference. Anyone know where I can test the hardness figure?

Jim


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## Racers (13 Feb 2011)

Hi,

Ground flat stock is annealed when you get it, I have made lost of plane blades and knifes and never had to anneal prior to hardening and tempering.


Pete


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## jimi43 (13 Feb 2011)

Ah...that's confirmed my suspicions then Pete...thanks mate.

Jim


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## Richard T (13 Feb 2011)

Aha. That's good to know Pete. I'd assume (hope) that steel sold to be hardened would be. 

I was thinking with my blacksmith head on that if you (Jim with kiln that is) wanted to seriously change a tool that was already hard, chisel, plane iron etc; you could normalise it to do the majority of the work with saw/files/grinding before annealing it then hardening and tempering again. 
I normalise by slowly heating to non magnetic then cooling to black on top of rather than in the fire.Though letting it cool on a pre warmed metal or ceramic surface works. Just so long as those whizzing molecules are allowed to come to a slow, gradual rest in a relaxed way. It's best to do this three times but I find that once leaves most things quite workable. 

Work on my dovetailed smoother came to grinding halt when I woke two Sundays ago to find some some charitable 'sole had pinched the bumper + winch orf the front of my Land Rover - long story, but to bring it back on topicish, I've made frames that I have cold riveted over the bolt heads in the new bumper. Even when not working on the plane slope I'm still practising peening ...


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## jimi43 (6 Mar 2011)

The other day I was thinking about what to do with the leftover 01 steel bits..and then I thought...floats!

I had a really thin bit...so I thought...let's play with that...try to get the teeth right and then harden it...and see what happens.






Clearly I have to practice a bit to get the teeth right...but it hardened beautifully and even cuts the casting...I used it close to the mouth to get the bed to bullnose transition near to breakout...

More pictures later when it breaks out...but if it cuts like this on metal then I think I shall be making a float collection for all sorts of stuff to do with plane making...these things are great!

Jim


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## jimi43 (7 Mar 2011)

Just before I hit the sack...I thought I would share that magic moment....






....when you know with a flat edge, flush to the bed...slowly cutting...it breaks through all at the same time across the sole.....

It's the big grin moment!

So...tomorrow...(perhaps) another iron in the kiln...another bit of boxwood and we should be done...by the end of the week I hope.

It's been a tough journey...

Jim


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## jimi43 (13 Mar 2011)

Well...there's one thing about the rain...stopping me from going to the bootfair but starting the day at 6am....it means I get to hit the workshop and finish off the infills....

So....to recap...what is now known as the "Ebay Three"...entered the Jimi household way back in December 2010...







Some three months later and considerably better weather (well it ain't snowing at least...), they are nearing completion...






The last addition to the trio is the little bullnose...which is in need of a bit more polish but tested fine!






I'm really getting the hang of this iron making business and even confident enough to fire up the kiln "in situ" inside the workshop now...without fear of setting light to the place! My timing is getting better now as I was at least 5 minutes ahead of the chicken for timesharing the oven! 8) 

The little baby fair spat the shavings out....






...not to mention the hairs on my arm!

So....this one's off to soak in some raw linseed oil overnight...(it is darkening rather nicely on the other two don'tcha think!?)....after whittling the toe to allow the shavings to exit stage left instead of bunching up concertina-like in the cavity.

Overall...I think for £68 outlay I have some rather nice little workhorses there...but it is something I shall NOT be embarking on again!

Jim


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## Kalimna (13 Mar 2011)

Lovely work, Jim. There's nothing quite like the feel of using a tool you have made yourself. Aesthetically pleasing (read: gorgeous!), and useful for fine work too.
If only we had such bootfairs up here in Alloa  - then I would have a garage full of chassis's doing very little!

What would you say was the most difficult/critical aspect?

And when will you embark on a dovetailed infill????

Adam


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## jimi43 (13 Mar 2011)

Hi Adam

Thank you for your kind words.....

One thing this little exercise has taught me is just how very skilled these old artisans must have been. I have the luxury of some nice Swedish files, power sanding equipment and electric kiln....but they only had hand tools and yet they were able to take these bare castings and make their own tools...they had no choice if they were anything other than very affluent.

Steel is not my most favourite medium. It is both messy and hard. I think if you have access to mills and other decent metalworking equipment then it is ok but as Aled says, it is a big effort...

I don't mind bronze or gunmetal....and brass because if is relatively soft and the mess is less "dirty" if you catch my drift...but steel is a nightmare.

It is also a very unpredicable animal....I learned a lot doing these three.

The most critical thing about casting work is getting the mouth right. Right at the start I knew this was going to be the case but on the last one I learned that if you just get to the breakout point...you then need to take some off the sole...rather than going further. This keeps the mouth as narrow as possible whilst allowing the iron to emerge. If you carry on through with a file...this doesn't happen.

Looking at some of the old vintage/antique examples...most have huge mouths...even the professionally made ones...which on a bullnose and rebate particularly is not what you want.

I thought the infill would be a nightmare but that was relatively easy...and it is with this knowledge that I have decided to stick to woodwork mostly from now on.

I will build a dovetailed plane but I think I will go for a very long battleship jointer....the amount of work is the same but the result is of more value and I want to see how one of these monsters performs relative to a No.7. I think I like the contrast between brass and steel and will go that route...I am following Aled's WIP with huge interest!

Cheers

Jimi

P.S. anyone know where the hell I am going to put my KT Tools stamp on the dinky one? #-o


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## Aled Dafis (14 Mar 2011)

jimi43":2v0gjr4c said:


> ...
> I will build a dovetailed plane but I think I will go for a very long battleship jointer....the amount of work is the same but the result is of more value and I want to see how one of these monsters performs relative to a No.7. I think I like the contrast between brass and steel and will go that route...I am following Aled's WIP with huge interest!
> 
> Cheers
> ...



Yes I'd like to build a "battleship jointer" someday, but I believe that it will entail a hell of a lot more work than say a smoother, especially in the lapping stages!. Brass and steel is also my preference, the contrast just looks good!

I'm afraid that the panel plane WIP is a few months away yet due to work commitments, although my drawings are almost ready for cutting the brass and steel.

Cheers
Aled


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## mtt.tr (16 Mar 2011)

Can you put the stamp under the wedge?


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## matthewwh (16 Mar 2011)

Richard T":39r146qs said:


> when I woke two Sundays ago to find some some charitable 'sole had pinched the bumper + winch orf the front of my Land Rover



Just appreciated the subtlety of that apostrophe at precisely the moment I was swallowing a mouthfull of tea. Thank goodness for kitchen towells and robust keyboards.


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## yetloh (17 Mar 2011)

jimi43":3uvivl6j said:


> I will build a dovetailed plane but I think I will go for a very long battleship jointer....the amount of work is the same but the result is of more value and I want to see how one of these monsters performs relative to a No.7. I think I like the contrast between brass and steel and will go that route...I am following Aled's WIP with huge interest!
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...




Not sure about the wisdom of brass and steel fo a plane of that size. They seem to be very few and far between and all of Karl Holtey's big ones seem to be all steel. I suspect there may be a good reason for that, perhaps to do with stability?

Jim


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## Richard T (17 Mar 2011)

Hooray! Punctuation comedy finally appreciated. Sorry Matthew, hope everything is ok.

Jimi you've been working a lot with cast iron and tool steel - mild steel is a different animal altogether - pretty much pure iron and very obliging when threatened with saw, file or hammer. I just made a cap iron yesterday and tried something new: I clamped it square on the anvil with just the right amount protruding over the edge, where there is a convenient small curve, and hammered it round cold with no trouble at all. This surprised me (it was 4mm x 2") 
Just goes to show how maliable it is.


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## Philly (17 Mar 2011)

Jim
Just a quick word on floats - once you harden them you can't sharpen them! I have quite a few custom floats for various tasks and they are all from annealed tool steel - this means you can sharpen them (with a file just like sharpening a hand saw) many times. The burr that the file leaves on each tooth really makes quick work of any timber.
Obviously if you want to try them on steel you'll need to harden it, but they work great as is on brass.
Hope this helps,
Philly


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## jimi43 (17 Mar 2011)

Hi Jim

Wayne Anderson makes gunmetal and steel jointers...this example is on THE INFILL SHOWCASE website:





I think this blend is simply beautiful...do you not agree. I find the use of steel on steel rather cold...and also I believe the wonder of metal dovetailing is something that needs to be shown and obvious..though the art of making them so accurately that they disappear is also wonderous! Probably why some examples are actually marked as such...almost as if the buyer would nver believe it possible!

Don't worry Matthew...I missed that beautiful apostrophe too the first time...the English language is so very wonderful, is it not!?

Hi Richard....thanks for the comforting words on mild steel...you can see how much of an expert on the "black stuff" I am (not!)!!  I still think I will probably try brass or can you get gunmetal sheets these days? Gunmetal is slightly harder is it not? Although I shy away from steel..I think I am finally taming it...it will never be my favourite medium but I won't let it get the better of me! Where are the latest pictures of your pein....(insert obvious example of English pun here!) :wink: I am missing the episodes on your infill!

Phil...thanks mate...these floats are wonderous things. The little float I made and hardened was just to get into that tight corner of the bullnose where I wanted quick removal and control and it really worked! I was astounded. If it works like this on wood and brass unhardened I will be making a few more of these without doubt! I may even make some exotic handles for them.

I have a few more offcuts which I think I want to make triangles of...one for flat and one for flat/side cutting. I do beileve I may have entered a new realm of tool design. This is what I love about toolmaking! Darn it...I seem to be moving more and more into the world of steel hacking again...it's really unavoidable isn't it! :? 8) 

mtt.tr.....thanks for the idea mate...it won't show but it will be there so I think that is the only option short of getting a tiny stamp made (when I can afford it!). I will practice on the "temporary wedge" while the other one cures in the linseed oil....it is a tad small though so I don't want to put adverse pressure on it and risk splitting it. Testing this afternoon and wil post the results later!

Cheers guys and gals.

Jim


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## yetloh (17 Mar 2011)

Hi Jim,

Yes, can't help but agree that the Wayne Anderson plane is stunning. A little more feminine than some, but none the worse for that.

I know what you mean about seeing the dovetails, I have just finished making a small chest with 10 inch long secret mitred dovetails on the front corners and have had several comments on "what is the point" lines. In fact there are three - it has stringing running all the way round so mitres are essential, I didn't want any possibility of the mitres opening at some point in the future and I had never done one before. I enjoyed doing them but I think I now have them out of my system.

Jim


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## Richard T (17 Mar 2011)

Very, very basically brass is an alloy of copper and zink and bronze is an alloy of copper and tin.
There are hundreds of variants and extra ingredients of both for different purposes.
I did start to look into it but decided to go with steel for the first one so I would make less expensive mistakes and got carried away from there. 
I do want to use brass for the next one (which I've already started :-" )


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