# finally got some work in progress, the coffee table saga.



## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

we had thought to make this lump of oak into an oval table ages ago.
however having not got round to it, i decided now to make it into a more rustic, and shapely sofa table which can be used for food or drinking 
whilst watching tv.

the top is about 900 x550x 35mm has one slightly curved side and the other side is not square either so it has charm.

i checked through my stock of oak offies and found enough to go where i want. so recently i spent some time hand planing this to flat face and edge, and left it to settle.

after a number of discussions here, i decided to make a jig for more accurately laying out the mortices in the legs and ensuring that i got the legs orientated properly all the times.

it is only a simple base with two sides at right angles to each other. the toe board is higher than the side to allow for use of the square across the sides. i just cut up some offies and screwed them together.

since it is not as long as the legs, i also ensured that i had spare piece of wood the thickness of the base to ensure that the legs would stay horizontal. i then clamped them in the jig, and marked out the mortice tops and bottoms and the orientation.

upon release i used a wheel gauge to mark the widths.





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this shows the jig, the marking tools, and the wood pile before cutting :roll: 

the next stage is to cut the mortices, and the jig is universal enough to be turned over and used as the cutting surface for the mortices.

next bit is the legs with the mortices.

sorry about the different picture contrast, my workroom has very bad light, and my camera is not all it should be :? 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

second stage the actual cutting 

the legs are english oak about 33x33 x600 mm and there are cross rails at two levels so there are a total of 16 mortices, in 8 pairs, since they are blind but connected. so i will need to make the tenons mitred.

the mortices are 35 or 45lon 6wide and 15 deep. not quite centred in the leg, so there will be a small inset.




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once again sorry about photo quality.

however this is the first time i have cut mortices by hand for a very long time. interestingly i did it two ways since i did not do them all at the same time, i had to be careful of the noise at times.

some are cut using the mallet and an ordinary chisel, not a pig sticker, don't have any of those small enough, whilst others were cut just using the chisel.

so now we know i can sharpen chisels :lol: :twisted: 

what is interesting is that the time taken to cut the mortices is about the same with either method.

i did this as suggested by others in that i started in the middle, and putting the chisel across the gap pressed down in a number of places, then levered out. took about 10 minutes per mortice.

so the real question is how this way do you ensure the mortice sides are flat and level, or does it not matter. 

the basic rule is you mark the mortice width to match the chisel you are using. then you go with the chisel across the width, and you move a little at a time, so by the virtue of this action you get a kind of corrugated surface to the sides. i guess this helps with glue retention :? 

the real pain is getting the bottom of the mortice flat if you do not have a swan neck chisel.

once i had done all 8 mortices for the side to side rails, i then laid the legs back into the jig, in pairs, and rotated them properly to ensure i had 4 legs with mortices in the correct place.

now i have 4 legs with 16 mortices and they face each other properly. =D> 

they are not as tidy as i would have liked but much will be hidden by the tenons and their shoulders, just bope the glue will ensure it all stays together properly.

am still wondering whether to use fox wedges inside or whether that might not be too much. :? 

not sure how much longer the rest will take, then i wonder whether it might be good enough to enter in the competition, if it fits a category of course :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Gary (1 Sep 2007)

Are you sure you have enough pencils? :lol:  :lol:


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## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

:-k pencils well yes :roll: 

i bought two lots from tesco at the discounted price, and thought well rather than have just one sharp one :lol:

actually the erasers are great for removing the pencil lines from the oak at least.

paul :wink:


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## woodbloke (1 Sep 2007)

Paul - mortice sides should be reasonably flat and level, helps if you have a thick mortice chisel (pig stickers are good), your method of cutting sounds about right. I assume you're standing in the correct place at the end of the bench, wood cramped to the bench disappearing away from you, with the mortice positioned over a bench leg?......very easy then to see if the chisel is dead vertical. Be *very* careful using a standard chisel to lever chips out of the mortice....could end up being expensive :wink: Doesn't matter if the bottom of the mortice is a bit ragged, I usually chop them longer than the tenon by about 3mm. Some bruising of the end is evident from the pics. I ususaly chop out the bulk of the mortice leaving 2mm at each end to stop this happening. The last bits at each end are chopped in one go, chisel resting on the line and the waste levered towards the mortice (ie away from you) and I then use small screwdriver to break up the chips which are then easy to eject from the hole.
BTW, you definitely need *more* pencils  - Rob


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## RobertMP (1 Sep 2007)

Off topic but I'm curious about that level/stop thing on the steel rule. It looks like a normal chesterman rule - is that stop an accessory for a standard rule or did it come as a set? looks like it could be useful!


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## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

will take another photo later for you, but it is in fact a veritas part. :roll: 

designed cleverly as usual by those clever canadians to fit all 1inch rules.
i would guess brimarc can supply if they have them in stock.

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

veritas call it a square level, and it is part number 05N43.01
as you say quite useful.

rob since i did not have a pig sticker, i needed to use what i had.

of course what i talked about in relation to the sides being uneven is to do with the narrowness of the chisels i am using, a pig sticker would be better, but as i said, have only got a 12mm one. must look out for narrower ones next time i am shopping :roll: 

thanks again for the interest

paul :wink: 
who can't make a monks seat in a weekend


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## engineer one (1 Sep 2007)

ok so a couple of photos of the measuring items i use which are both veritas items, and as usual, well made and very useful accessories.

one of them is specially for dom, showing how i keep my rafter square square :lol: 




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the square level i find very useful especially also as a depth gauge which is what i have used on the mortices :roll: 

veritas also do a number of other squares which are pretty useful and acknowledged square.

oops better stop plugging rob lee any more or i'll get slapped wrists :twisted: 

hope this helps
paul :wink:


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## engineer one (2 Sep 2007)

trying to figure out the best way for me to do the tenons.

these are the first ones i have wholly hand cut. 
used my LN dovetail saw to get the shoulders and bottom lines.

but since my hand sawing is the pits i might look at another way of doing this.  

this is a test cut, and i cut them slightly oversize and then cleaned them up with one of my shoulder planes, i used the clifton 420 boy is that mouth tight :roll: 




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top picture is the rear view. and is not so good, 
but the lower picture shows the front which ain't too bad :? 

part of the error is due to the shoulder join. i think if i did it on the table saw it would be much easier to sort. 

anyway since i have enough waste so far, will play around a little more with hand sawing and trying to find a better way completely by hand.

actually made the tenon a little too short, so that gives more reason to be not to unhappy.

the other big problem is being sure that you have cut to the lines properly all the time :? still that is only practice isn't it??????

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (2 Sep 2007)

so after a long afternoon walk, i thought about another way to cut the tenons by hand.

this time, i cut the shoulders at top and bottom first. to depth too.
still problems

next i marked the width and then cut the final size. so i ended up with a curve across the shoulders. now since i am using a backed saw i wonder what i am doing wrong??? :? 




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as you can see i can get one side right but not the other :roll: 

part of the gap is due to the tenon being slightly long but since it would need mitring, then that part is manageable. what is not is the fact that i manage to get a convex curve over the width. i also managed to get the shoulders a little low at the corners too.  

so the best thing that has come out of the weekend is the movement of a better task light to within my working area. amazing what a difference full light can do even in daylight. :lol: 
sadly the window of my workroom, is that it seems to hide the light not 
enhance my working. maybe it is my age too, but it is certainly important to have decent all round lighting/light and sunlight on its own does not always cut it :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (2 Sep 2007)

Paul,

Have you tried marking the work with a knife, making a fairly deep cut, then chiseling (on the waste side) up to the knife mark so that you have something for the saw to run in? That would help you to get the cut straight. You might still need to clean the shoulders a little, but that could be done using a sharp chisel.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## engineer one (2 Sep 2007)

thanks paul, not thought to do all that.

what concerns me is that i start out straight, and it seems to go on the pee
somewhere in the working  

fortunately i have some spare wood to practice on and i know i am wanting to run before i can walk(saw :roll: )

paul :wink:


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## DaveL (2 Sep 2007)

Paul,

I would second Paul's advise on using a knife and reliving the waste with a chisel.

Which cut did you make first? I think you cut the narrow edge and then the wider face and the two sets of cuts are not quite in line, giving the apparent curve.


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## engineer one (3 Sep 2007)

tried another test, this time with a slightly narrower but thicker piece.

did what paul and dave suggested, and cut lines around.
still no coconut, but getting better i think.

so all it takes is practice :twisted: :roll: :lol: 

still not right, but 




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i am still concerned that it might be easier to use the table saw or scms to cut the base line straight across, then nibble the other bits by hand.
know it ain't all handwork though :lol: 

thanks again

paul :wink: [/img]


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## Paul Chapman (3 Sep 2007)

engineer one":1ifiuwyo said:


> i am still concerned that it might be easier to use the table saw or scms to cut the base line straight across, then nibble the other bits by hand.
> know it ain't all handwork though :lol:



Or, as you've mastered the shooting board, you could just plane the pieces straight and square, rout mortices with an electric router, then make up some loose tenons and glue it all together. OK, it's not all hand work but just as good as a well-made mortice and tenon joint and much better than a badly made one.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## engineer one (3 Sep 2007)

as you say paul there are many ways to skin this cat :roll: 

i could always go the whole hog and buy a domino :lol: :lol: 

however, i will persevere a little more and see what i can come up with
as an answer that ensures i solve all the problems.

i think that what i am trying for is the simplest, most elegant solution 
in relation to my skill level at this time.

having tried it now, i am unhappy at my skill level, but know that much is back to a lack of practice, so will try more tomorrow. :? 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (4 Sep 2007)

ok so made some more progress.
mind you still not figured out how to arrange the photos in a proper order, so you will have to search.

on monday i made a tenon jig for the table saw, first one was not too accurate, so i remade it. then discovered a major problem, because of the supports against the back of the fence, it was too near the blade when the tenon wood was in place.

so i cut the various cross rails to the relevant lengths including the tenon length.

then i used the tenoning jig in a different way, i remembered the way in which norm does it. and so knowing that scrit will kill me for having an 
un protected blade, i tried this way. i do not recommend it, but since the max extension is about 10mm and my hands were always at least 6inches away, and i had really good light, i felt reasonably safe. but i waited for the blade to stop every time. :roll: 

basically i set the blade at the relevant height for the particular section, then set the mitre gauge properly, and then set the tenon gauge at the 
correct distance so that it was the right length.

on the long sides, i started at the back, and got the straight line i wanted, then moved toward the end of the tenon in small steps until it was cut all the way. some small steps but since i had made it slightly too wide, i used my LV shoulder plane. :tool: really nice and easy to use, and because the mouth is adjustable more simple to use than the clifton 420 i have.

as you can see, i have made the deeper rails at the bottom, whilst the narrow ones are thicker, so i set all at the same depth from the front of the rail.

i then used the same nibbling method to remove the ends of the tenons, but learnt a real lesson in that you need to start at the end, and work back toward the shoulder, otherwise bits get clipped off.




so i have basically made the lower frame, i need to fettle it more to make it work properly, but so far seems square and reasonably flat so.

next time i might well use the router and my rat, but i had hoped to do it by hand so this was a reasonable compromise and ensures that i get a relatively quick and accurate result.




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one is an end view of the same
the next one is the first fit of all 8 cross rails. getting there :roll: 

next is the tenon jig, using scraps of mdf i have around

then a number of the fits in the end rails. in principle they are better, but one problem with cutting on the table saw does mean a little tear out so i may end up using shadow lines :lol: probably a chamfer on each vertical.

anyway progress i guess. once i have got the tenons sorted and am happy with the fit, i will dry assemble and see how i can do the centre section.

i intend to have infill end panels, but not sure about the back, and whether i will have a drawer unit in the middle, have to be sure it is not overwhelming.

think i am improving
 

paul :wink: 

.


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## ByronBlack (4 Sep 2007)

Nice to watch your progress paul. I personally think a hand-made M&T is much harder than a dovetail joint.


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## engineer one (6 Sep 2007)

more movement forward.

sadly i am not as quick as jason or dom, but since i am also learning :lol: :roll: 

as mentioned before i cut the tenons using the table saw. however i got more break out than i wanted. in part that was because i forgot the router trick of doing the end grain first.

so i reset the saw to give me a slightly bigger nibble against the tenon. to overcome the break out. 

started at the smaller side, and hence basically avoided break out.
then i had to chisel away the ridges. took note of a trick in the latest FWW which is to chisel down slightly toward the tenon so the outside of the shoulder is slightly higher than the inside against the tenon. ensure that you have as level a surface as you can get.

mitred the ends of the tenons so that the cross ones would fit properly :roll: 

then massaged to get the fit. involved making them slightly shorter, and also a little more manipulation at the bottom of the mortice.

so here goes the two ends ready for glue up almost




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as you can see i have managed to get the two ends almost exactly the same length and placement. i also had to adjust the width, to ensure both were the same. this is mainly in the bottom of the mortices.

finally i decided to consider shadow lines, because although i was quite happy with the joins, i felt it there would be less long term break out, and also it would divert the eye.

having never used shadow lines before i can now see why they are so popular. they really do divert the eye, and make the joins look a great deal better. mine are about 3 mm down and done with my LN block plane.

most important lesson is that you need to put the two frames on top of each other to ensure they are the same width. this generally involves a small adjustment to the inside of the mortice, although shortening the tenon is also quite important, not least because i have the lengthways ones to fit.

so i have to finish off four more sets of shadow lines. then do the long rails the same way. next stage will be finishing off prior to glue up. not sure whether to scrape or sand yet.

interesting question though what do you do to mark the joints that you have so carefully matched after you have sanded?? i guess marks around the shoulders. any ideas. or what about masking tape.

i am still figuring whether to have end panels and so will consider that over the weekend. will see whether the stanley plough will work. want flat panels so, i need to figure out the best way to put a tongue on the panel. maybe table sawn again. :roll: otherwise maybe i can try a planing job.

want the panel to be as near to level with the frames as possible.
think since it is lime will look nicer that way.

anyway will get the major underframe finished by weekend.

next thing is to sort the top and the m/t's there. 
question how much land do you need on the top of a 33x33 mm leg to hold the table top i am thinkin about 6-7,mm on each side. any other thoughts???

also i cannot be sure whether to taper the legs. think it needs an assymetric one. less at the outside more inside. if so how easy is it to do by hand??

thanks again

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

so no thoughts about marking, maybe i should ask the question on another section. :roll: 

anyway made progress to the extent that the basic frame is now finished.
and it stays together without clamps so far.

even more interesting, is the fact that it is level and does not rock.
the cross and lengthway rails are horizontal and also across the corners.
just hope i retain that in glue up :? 

so what do you think, not bad, just have to finish the shadow lines on the long rails, and check all the others look similar in conjunction with each other.





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next part of the process is to cut the grooves for the mdf shelves top and bottom. for strength will use 12mm veneered that i already have, 
(thanks jfc :roll: ) that will help keep it square too.

i am still thinking about the end panels and a back one.

will see how it looks over the next couple of days.

thanks for looking again

paul :wink: [/img]


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## DomValente (7 Sep 2007)

Nice work Paul.


Dom


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

thanks dom, bloody sight harder than i thought, but worth it as it gets nearer to completion.

next stage is to try and see whether i can use my stanley plough plane to cut the grooves :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (7 Sep 2007)

It's looking good.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## DomValente (7 Sep 2007)

engineer one":4cptvuc6 said:


> .
> 
> next stage is to try and see whether i can use my stanley plough plane to cut the grooves :roll:
> 
> paul :wink:



Or a router :twisted: 

Dom


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## Paul Chapman (7 Sep 2007)

engineer one":9phdddf2 said:


> next stage is to try and see whether i can use my stanley plough plane to cut the grooves :roll:



It's worth doing some practice cuts on some scrap to ensure you have it working nicely :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

yes, that from the man who has just bought a domino :lol: :lol: 

the router is my second thought if i can't figure out the stanley, but then what do i save, only time :roll: :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## DomValente (7 Sep 2007)

As you know Paul I was joking, think of the satisfaction of achieving your goal by hand tool.

Dom


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

i must confess that trying to overcome the problems is great fun.

i think what worries me is my sense of humour is similar to yours 8) 

nice to know my chisels and planes are sharp :lol: 

love working with oak.

paul :wink:


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## DomValente (7 Sep 2007)

engineer one":pptkcj7e said:


> i think what worries me is my sense of humour is similar to yours 8)



Now that is a worry


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

so i have got the stanley out, and fitted the 6mm blade, and tested it on a piece of 2x1 just to see if it cuts. now the big one, learning to use it on the oak, and wondering a couple of other things too.

from the picture, you can also see a piece of the lime i intend to use as an end panel infill. i want it to be flush with the oak cross stretchers, and show the interesting grain. so i will groove the stretchers, and then run a rebate in the lime.




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so the questions are thus,

how do you guarantee that the plane stays upright? i know that sounds dumb, but unless i have assembled it wrong, then i guess you have to guide it with your last two fingers on the right hand side, and that may be a little bit of a problem for me with a dodgy little finger (ahhhhhh :roll: )

how tight do you do up the screws finger or driver tight???

also is it sensible to use this to cut the rebate on the piece of lime??

thanks for any comments :? 
paul :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (7 Sep 2007)

I'm not familiar with that particular plane but you appear to have it assembled incorrectly. You normally have the fence on the left-hand side. Is it possible to fit a deeper wooden face to the fence? That normally helps in keeping it upright. When planing keep pressure against the fence.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul

PS The plane is a bit light in weight and you may, therefore, struggle a bit if the oak is very hard. Dom's idea of using a router might be a better bet.


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

interesting paul that's why i posted. ( so where is alf when you need her???? :roll: )

i tried it the other way, but then wondered how i could keep the shoe on the wood to control the depth of cut. 
and yes, i can of course put a deeper wooden fence on.

will see how i get on with the oak. :? 

any thoughts about using it to cut the rebate, or do i need a shoulder plane with my nickers on????

paul :wink:


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## ByronBlack (7 Sep 2007)

Paul - have a read of Alf's tutorial on her website, that should have all the answers you need.

I agree with paul though, I think you should have the fence on the left-hand side, to help keep the plane upright, you can fix a thin dowel with a bit of red paint on the end and use this as a visual guide (all in ALF's article).

The depth of cut should be controlled by a depth guage - I can't see if you have one as the fence obscures where it should be in the photo, but on my plough plane you would have a small thumbscrew that you would loosen and adjust a strip of metal to the depth you want.. I'm not sure if this is of any help though.

Edit: When cutting rebates, or any cut for that matter, you should most definitely keep your nickers on - it's just good hygiene!


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## Paul Chapman (7 Sep 2007)

Most plough planes have a depth stop to control the depth of cut. You set the depth then just keep planing until the stop prevents you going any deeper. I can't really work out your one from the picture you posted, but there doesn't appear to be any provision for one. Got any sort of instruction sheet?

Not sure about your rebate. Depends on the size of it. You could plane a groove with the plough then remove the rest with a shoulder plane. Or do the whole lot with the shoulder plane - just clamp on a batten to guide the side of plane. You will only need nickers on cross grain work.

Here's the stuff Byron mentioned http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=oldtoolalf

Or use a router :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## engineer one (7 Sep 2007)

thanks again have checked alf's site and will consider again.

there is actually a depth skate and i can adjust that, tried the fence on the other side and in oak, and it seems to work, so lets see if it will cut 8 grooves before sharpening and my going even madder :twisted: 

thanks again for the interest


paul :wink:


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## ByronBlack (8 Sep 2007)

glad that we have managed to cobble together something useful for you paul, keep us updated on your progress.


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## engineer one (9 Sep 2007)

some more progress.

decided to try the plough on the shelf grooves for the upper shelf.

afterwards, discovered i had one of them upside down. another reason for a good assembly marking process  

so i had to widen the grooves in a different way than i had expected :? 

luckily, because i was test cutting i had done the first grooves with a 6mm wide blade, and the shelf is going to be in 12mm i needed it to be widened anyway :roll: in the end, i had therefore cut two side grooves, and then finished off the centre with the 12mm blade.

so here is the latest progress well some of it?




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as you can see i got some nice decent shavings, the major problem being they tend to roll up around the sledge guide rails and need moving away quite regularly.

so two more upper cross rails to finish off, then the lower rails, and the end panels to recess too.

must say that holding these things is the biggest problem with doing it by hand. any sensible ideas about a hold down would be gratefully recieved.

paul :wink:


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## DomValente (9 Sep 2007)

*engineer one wrote:*



> the major problem being they tend to roll up around the sledge guide rails and need moving away quite regularly.



I think Philly has a special brush for that  

Dom


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## engineer one (9 Sep 2007)

naw his brush is much too wide :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## Paul Chapman (9 Sep 2007)

engineer one":2nhr594q said:


> must say that holding these things is the biggest problem with doing it by hand. any sensible ideas about a hold down would be gratefully recieved.



You could try making up a planing board. Basically, you could use a piece of MDF on which to secure the workpiece, and then clamp that to the bench top. You will have to work out the best way to fix the workpiece to the planing board - you could, for example, fix a batten to one end and drive a small nail through it which would grip the end of your workpiece, then think of something for the other end. The main advantage of the planing board is that you can drive nails and things into it which you wouldn't want to do to your bench.

Look at this thread from Jake Darvall (the Master of all this sort of stuff) - might give you a few ideas http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=38354

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## engineer one (10 Sep 2007)

fatal flaw in next stage of the process.
the stanley i have has a vertical as well as a horizontal type of sled. 
and of course it goes behind the blade.

so if you try to cut a groove in the middle of a long bar you cannot.  

so i guess it will be back to the router :? 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (14 Sep 2007)

slow rest of the week.  

i succumbed to advice, and decided to use a router. :? 

so i sorted out my ryobi table and mounted router. this of course meant tidying up and rearranging things in the workshop :roll: 

the dust just gets into places you forgot you had. and you find tools and bits of kit you didn't know you had.

the table and router cost me about 50 quid about two years ago, at B&Q
in principal it is a good deal, BUT  why oh why does no manufacturer design a router and table in which to mount it all in one, rather than design the table as a router table, and then just fit any kind of router. 

you end up with silly things cause they give you a screw on switch hold on, and then the nva switch is mounted in the strangest place.
replacing the cutters is a nightmare too. although the ryobi has a decent button to hold the collet steady, when it is mounted upside down, and the way the router is mounted, it is a pita. :? 

then the real problem, the collet on my machine will not plunge through the base of the router. why oh why do they design them so that the collet does not come to the bottom of the plate??? which of course means that you have problems with adjusting the height of the cutter. and because the height adjustment is basically on or off, it is really difficult to ensure you get the accuracy you need.

so i only got round to machining the grooves in the legs and cross rails today. even that was a little difficult since the fence on this router table is not to easy to ensure that it is straight and stays in place. there has to be a better way :twisted: 

anyway i have also cut to length and machined one side of the end in fill panels, which are part of a nice piece of lime which i will photograph tomorrow or sunday depending upon the work load. another reason for no photos tonight, is that i have had to repair a couple of errors which may not be seen, but needed massaging. 

hopefully by the end of the weekend, i will have finally glued together both end frames, and ensured they are square and decent. will also have cut the top tenons on the legs.

so tomorrow will be a clean up day, think i will be sanding rather than scraping in this case.

paul :wink:


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## DaveL (15 Sep 2007)

Paul,

Sounds to me that you need to upgrade to a Triton router in your table. :roll: 
To change the cutter you just wind the collect though the base and the spindle locks automatically.  
You have a rack and pinion fast wind to roughly set the height of the cut and then a fine adjustment to get it spot on. \/ \/ Slope greaser, me?


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## engineer one (15 Sep 2007)

now dave that is really nasty, i have too much stuff now :lol: :lol: 
another router  

but like many others i have looked at the triton, and, well :roll: :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## DaveL (15 Sep 2007)

engineer one":mdn0cf0b said:


> i have too much stuff now :lol: :lol:



Nurse, Nurse


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## engineer one (15 Sep 2007)

actually this week has taught me the lesson, :roll: 

i have to make things to find out what i have, 
and then get some space in the workshop :? 

as for the nurse, well it depends on which one,

the matron, or the staff nurse :twisted: :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## motownmartin (15 Sep 2007)

engineer one":1yteyep9 said:


> now dave that is really nasty, i have too much stuff now :lol: :lol:
> another router
> 
> but like many others i have looked at the triton, and, well :roll: :roll:
> ...


Paul

A Triton Router, you know it makes sense :wink: you could even make a mobile station like the one that I haven't finished 

Martin


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## engineer one (15 Sep 2007)

well actually what this has convinced me is that i must finally build a wall plate and mount my rat again :?  

then i'll try the hitachi, and when that goes bang will replace it with the latest decent kit which may still be the triton so quiet already :lol: :twisted: :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (15 Sep 2007)

whilst i think about it, dave l. 

you are a moderator, my dictionary definition 
includes the relation to you being subtle and 
careful about pushing people over the 
edge :lol: :lol: :twisted: 

no fair no fair :roll: 

i will remember this for some time in the future 8) 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (16 Sep 2007)

so after the rant yesterday, moved the router table out of the way,

massaged the damage within the longs slots with some ronseal filler.
says antique pine and mid oak, well obviously these guys and i have a different view on colours  still it is in the slots and can't be seen outside and will not i think affect the staining or varnish, depending upon what i use :roll: think i am looking for light to mid colour.

used the bosch ros on all the bits except the legs. attach the vacuum and turn on before use, the machine sticks to the wood 8) only problem is that you end up after an hour or so, with tingling arms :? 

used 400 grit since all i was looking for was regaining the light colour of the wood, and ending up with a general matching of all the oak.

so on the router, i did the slots in the legs, and also in the other cross rails because i was getting lazy :twisted: 

i also kind of fielded the floating panels. but since i wanted it to look almost smooth, i used a bit i think they call a sinking bit since it has a wide flat bottom and slight curve on the edges. of course you are stuck with the distance between your fence and the edge of the rotating cutter :? 
more of that later.

then i test fitted it all, and discovered that of course,  due to the previously complained about problems with depth setting, the floaters were too long for the slots in the cross rails.

so out with the mitre board and the number 7, really nice long shavings,
then the next problem, the fielded part hits, so i then got out my veritas 
large shoulder plane and massaged the gap. oh what a loverly plane, and how easy with a sharp blade. works really well with end grain too, thanks rob and the guys, that moveable handle at the rear is really useful.

so the big question is i am right i should worry more about cross ways movement of the wood rather than vertical shouldn't I???  

given that this is about 300 wide, how much movement should i allow for in the lime end panel???? seems to slop about so should i guess be ok when the heating comes and goes.

i have also cut the base lines for the top tenons on the legs, and now have to lay out the lines to make the lower end of the legs slightly tapered on all 4 sides. i intend to hand plane so that should be fun :? am only looking for a small distance on each side. 

the plan is to have a shallow outside taper on the two outside edges, then a slightly bigger taper on the inside. hopefully that will leave enough strength but reduce the heaviness at the bottom.

i have decided during construction not to put a drawer unit and door in between the legs cause as i make it it seems that that would make the whole unit too heavy in look and not necessarily add to the usefulness.
so i will have two mdf 12mm oak faced solid shelves instead.

so i am almost ready for glue up of the end panels and legs either tonight or tomorrow. need to put some clear acrylic varnish on the end grain of the floating panel just to ensure.

final jobs on these bits are complete the upper tenons, which are only on two edges to allow the greatest area for glueing. tapering the bottoms, and then sanding the legs, and gluing up, ensuring that the top cross rails line up with the long rails so the whole is square and the shelves are level :roll: 

anyway latest photos. i think they show why i wanted to use the lime on the end panels.





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[/img]

so what you have is the inside of one end and the outside of the other, to show i have made both ends of the table :? 

so the saw cuts at the top are for the tenons, and luckily, as you can see, the units look pretty similar.

more importantly you can see why i wanted to put the lime in something which would highlight it, and that is also why i decided not to put the box in the middle :? 

so with any luck, i will get most of it done before next weekend, since now it is the really tricky bit of gluing up and squaring up  :twisted: :roll: 


so a round up, hand planed all the wood, including the end panels after colin c had bandsawn them for me. (but did run the legs through the p/t because i needed them to be exactly the same  )

used the plough for one set of grooves, but unable to do so on the legs so i did that on the router table, and then one more set of grooves, and then fielding on the end panels.
finally used the mitre plane and shoulder plane to ensure the end panels fitted well. then the ros for smoothing.  

so two shelves to be cut later in the week, and of course hand cut the corners since i have not grooved across the legs at the intersection. so will i need to make some mouldings i hope not :roll: 

i think the shadow line around the end panel looks better than adding moulding. and you will notice that the end panel overlaps the slot slightly to hide any errors :roll: 
must get my scraper plane working properly :? 

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (24 Sep 2007)

at last some more progress in assembly :roll: 

spent the week varnishing with B&Q own brand satin, cause i want it to be as near neutral as possible. this after a conversation with colin c, and his having come to see the wip.

as you can see, i have tapered the bottom of the four legs, this is assymetrical. the outer taper is less than the inner one. i think it looks better, and gives it a delicacy which it might not have had.

as you can see when gluing up, i used a brown paper to ensure that there is no glue squeeze out on the besseys(no gloat honest :roll: )
this i have used before after spraying, it is baking sheet which can be bought from the supermarket, and is both non stick, and not acidic, so nothing from the paper can bleach through into the wood, which since it is oak i did not want.

the photos show the inner and outer panels in glue up, used the uhu glue from lidl (colin you are right :twisted: ) the express one. 

final photo shows the outside out of clamps, and one of my mistakes on the top tenon which will i think be modified to add to the look of the top, by giving me 4 cross wise faux tenons too.

later this week hope to glue up the whole, and install the shelves. then the joy of marking and cutting the mortices in the top, and deciding what other work needs to be done on the top.




[/url]






[/img]

because i still haven't figured out how to post pictures in the order i want, the top one is out of the clamps, shows the nice pattern in the lime end panel. 8) 

so the question is am i brave enough to enter it in the competition??? :? 
or is it too late  

paul :wink:


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## DarrenW (24 Sep 2007)

If you're entering it into the Begineers section, then I'm afraid its far to late for that..... But by all means enter it into the sections! :wink:  :shock: 

With Byrons work bench and this I might as well give up now! 8-[ 

Competitive... me.... never :wink:


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## ByronBlack (24 Sep 2007)

This project is so posh, even your glue-ups get to sit on an upholstered chair!! Oooh Get you! 

I must say i'm liking them panels!

But you need to get a new camera paul


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## engineer one (24 Sep 2007)

s*d the camera byron its the photographer who need changing :lol: 

actually it is amazing how much things have moved on.it is a ricoh 6000,
and no more than 4 -5years old, but i rarely use it as you can tell :? 

problem is my workshop is much darker than i would like with only one north facing window, so i use the lounge and pose  

will try harder when it is nearer completion

thanks for the encouragement 8) 

paul :wink:


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## DarrenW (24 Sep 2007)

Hi Paul,

I know its abit off the current chat, but I have been cutting a few shoulders recently. Luckily I had watched DC's latest DVD on chisel usage and used his method which has produced some good results.

My sawing is abit hit and miss, but DC suggests knifing the shoulder line.. cut as close to it as you dare with a saw without crossing the line. Then use a sharp chisel registered in the knife line to clean up to the line. He also suggests chiseling to a slight down angle so that the edges (knife line) are a smidge higher than the shoulder at the base of the tenon. This gives you a nice clean contact when clamped.

As I says its worked well for me so far.

I cut the tenons on the bandsaw and was pleased with the results. Again cut them slightly too big and trimmed with a shoulder plane for a snug fit.

Darren


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## engineer one (24 Sep 2007)

thanks darren, interesting.

i did actually use a similar method although, i did not use the bandsaw, (which i do not yet have  ) so i cut them on my table saw, and then because i had kind of crept upon on the tenon size, had to use both chisels and shoulder planes to get to where i wanted. however i found the tenons so small that i knocked quite a few edges off. thicker ones would have been better :? 

as for the tenons, i need to practice, and more importantly get a thin pig sticker to ensure that i get them straighter. since they were my first for a long time, i had not really sorted my stance etc.

in future when i do hand made mortices, i will stand in line with them, not to one side, and use a point light nearby to ensure that i am always there.

paul :wink:


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## ByronBlack (24 Sep 2007)

paul - I've been having the very same problem (of lighting). I was chopping out some mortices today and it was quite tricky to always gauge where I was in the cut. I've since ordered a light and will add some doweling to the base so that I can seat it into one of my dog holes.


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## engineer one (5 Oct 2007)

sadly i am not as speedy as some of the others, but trying to ensure i made fewer errors i had to wait for some help to complete the frame glue up.




[/url]



[/img]

these two show the final frame glue up, and the shape and size of the top.

happily the glue up went well, with help, since i had to hold the four rails, plus the two shelves, which fitted perfectly, and the rails only need a little force with my white rubber mallet :roll: 

every thing has gone together square and level which is reassuring, since i won't need to cut the legs at all.

i need to finish the frame in two ways, firstly i have cut some moulding for around the top of the shelves, to hide any small errors, and then wax, before i install the top.

the top has of course moved a little, so i shall relief cut it, and then fill those kerfs, then cut the mortices and arrange the cross wedges.
that should be fun.

with any luck will be finished by the end of the month :twisted: :? 

paul :wink:


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## Woodmagnet (5 Oct 2007)

Yes but which month. :lol:


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## engineer one (5 Oct 2007)

aw come kevin it's only the beginning of october. :lol: 

paul :roll:


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