# CCTV, workshop security



## Housey210 (10 Jun 2022)

Anyone have any experience of cctv. The cameras keep blacking out! Restore is done unconnecting and reconnecting power supply at camera, jack plug. One 1amp, 12v dc, power supply unit feeds two swann cameras and with just one camera being lost, in the paired units of 8, I am thinking it is a power issue. Great system, easy to use and 4 days recording so not looking to change anything bar the power units to a dedicated cctv psu. My question is, can one have too many amps as the psu I looking at gives 1.65 amps per channel, compared to the existing .5 amp? No amp rating on camera! Existing system is all prewired with 30mtr cables. Another thought I had was the excess cable as that had to be tidied up by means of large loop.


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## Spectric (10 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> My question is, can one have too many amps as the psu I looking at gives 1.65 amps per channel, compared to the existing .5 amp?


You don't give amps, the load draws the amperage required so providing your power supply is capable of meeting the total demand of the camera's then you will be ok. If there is insufficient power then this leads to volt drop and potentially the system cannot function. It is not good to coil up excess cable.


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## Gordon Tarling (10 Jun 2022)

Long cables supplying the power to cameras cause large voltage drops - I have one run of about 15m to a camera and it needs the power supply set to 15.5 Volts in order for the camera to see the 12 volts that it needs.

G.


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## Spectric (10 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Long cables supplying the power to cameras cause large voltage drops


Unless you can get larger csa cables, many of the ready made cables supplied with camera kits are too small in wire csa.


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## Sandyn (10 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Long cables supplying the power to cameras cause large voltage drops - I have one run of about 15m to a camera and it needs the power supply set to 15.5 Volts in order for the camera to see the 12 volts that it needs.


Just a caution, there is a potential problem with this if you connect the camera when the PSU is already on. A 12V camera might have an absolute maximum rating of, say 13V (as an example). Anything over that may cause damage. 
If you connect a live supply to the camera, the supply is open circuit and sitting at 15.5V, so the input components are overstressed momentarily. This may not cause problems immediately, but may shorten the life of the camera.


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Sandyn said:


> Just a caution, there is a potential problem with this if you connect the camera when the PSU is already on. A 12V camera might have an absolute maximum rating of, say 13V (as an example). Anything over that may cause damage.
> If you connect a live supply to the camera, the supply is open circuit and sitting at 15.5V, so the input components are overstressed momentarily. This may not cause problems immediately, but may shorten the life of the camera.


That was true with the old style linear power supplies, but I haven't seen one of those new in a couple of decades...
It isn't true with switchmode PSU's however, which have been the default power supplies since the 1990's/2000's- anything with that 100-240v 50/60 hz label is a switchmode and the output is regulated on its output, all of them...
( got 50 years of playing with electronics under my belt, both as a hobbyist and as a job)






If the PSU has that label- its a switchmode...


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## clogs (11 Jun 2022)

to ask.....
I have a workshop around 100m from myhouse...(on my land, upa private road but driving u meet the workshop first) I plan to place a second gate at the entrance to the road just to stop drive thru's but it wont stop wondering tent dwellers.....
So need a full system of camera's, 4 should sufice.....have a 240mins supply close...
but would like a buzzer at home as well as a TV moniter to view whats going on....
there will be a few well placed LED flood lights PIR activated....
any suggestions on a good simple system.....
PS all cameras would be around 5m high with high level wiring.....
thanks.....
oh..would like to do the first fit before the w/shop is complete....hiding wires etc.....


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## Superduner (11 Jun 2022)

I'm about to install a 4 camera HDD based Reolink system for a client using power over ethernet. I'm not using the cables that came with the kit but good quality cat 6. I'm told they should be good for 100 metres which is twice as far as I need.
That removes the need for installing power supplies at the camera locations, which would have been tricky.


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

clogs said:


> to ask.....
> I have a workshop around 100m from myhouse...(on my land, upa private road but driving u meet the workshop first) I plan to place a second gate at the entrance to the road just to stop drive thru's but it wont stop wondering tent dwellers.....
> So need a full system of camera's, 4 should sufice.....have a 240mins supply close...
> but would like a buzzer at home as well as a TV moniter to view whats going on....
> ...


The easiest would be a wired system (4 and 8 camera DVRs are common)- BUT 100m is a long run for the 'premade' cables, you will have voltage drop issues at that range...

I would suggest using just a premade video cable (BNC connectors are the most common), and use a separate heavyduty fig 8 double insulated power cable (4mm) ie the black sheathed fig 8 used in automotive use for the power lines...

You could use the premade stuff with inbuilt power cables, but use that power cable as an alarm switch for the PIRs (many DVRs have a 'alarm' input that triggers the DVR when it is closed, connect the pir output to the DVR alarm input using that undersized inbuilt power cable
If you put the DVR at the shed, you can usually run another hundred meters or two from its HDML output using video repeaters to a monitor or TV with HDML input, and many have an alarm output set of terminals as well that you could use via a cable to activate a piezo buzzer at the house..., alternatively if you have internet at the shed possible, then the DVRs all have the ability to send you an email, some have SMS as well (only in the more expensive ones)

It is possible to do the comms by wifi and just have a local power source- this is what I am installing at my front gate (500m away- far too long for wired lol), a long range wifi link (Unifi LR routers at each end), with a wifi network camera at the gate, and some WIFI triggered relay boards with inputs as well- this will allow a 'doorbell button' at the gate, and the ability to trigger the automatic gate opener and/or floodlamps by wifi- the gate end will be solar powered
Thats a fairly complicated system however with much of it being homebrewed by me, using off the shelf equipement but needs knowledge to assemble the various bits together to make it all work, its not a plug and play' setup... luckily I know a guy good with electronics lol (ie me!!!)


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## Sandyn (11 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> That was true with the old style linear power supplies, but I haven't seen one of those new in a couple of decades...
> It isn't true with switchmode PSU's however, which have been the default power supplies since the 1990's/2000's- anything with that 100-240v 50/60 hz label is a switchmode and the output is regulated on its output, all of them...
> ( got 50 years of playing with electronics under my belt, both as a hobbyist and as a job)


With all due respect, I think you have mis-read what is happening. You are correct there used to unregulated linear supplies, but that's not what I am referring to in this particular case. 

The OP has long power leads going to his camera, so to compensate for the voltage drop, they have to increase the supply voltage. It has nothing to do with the difference between a linear supply and a switch mode. You can get linear supplies with excellent regulation, but since they rely on a controlled voltage drop over a linear device(2N3055) they are less efficient than a switch mode. 

If you have very long leads, you convert a regulated supply to one with poor regulation, where the output voltage at the ends of the long leads becomes a function of the resistance of the leads and the current. 

V(at end of leads)= V (regulated)-Current X lead resistance. 

V regulated doesn't change. When the current is zero. The voltage at the end of the leads= regulated output. In the OP's case, 15.5V. This is the important point when you boost a voltage to compensate for line drop and connect the camera to a live supply. The 12V camera will see an input of 15,5V
As soon as the camera starts drawing current, the voltage will drop, but it will be a function of the current, it's become an unregulated supply. The input components will already have seen an overstress condition. 
One way to compensate for long leads is by using a sensed power supply. The sensed power supply has 4 wires +V, -V, +Vsense and -Vsense. The sense inputs are very high impedance, essentially it's like having a voltmeter at the end of the leads and a compensation circuit to change the output voltage as the load changes. 
Power supplies have line regulation and load regulation. The 100-240V shows the SMPSU have excellent line regulation. Remember the old linear supplies with switch input to change the transformer winding  
You could design a universal input linear supply without switching and do all the regulation on the output, but it would have poor efficiency. 
Linear supplies are still popular in some areas, they are much lower noise , but lower efficiency (52%!!)


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## SamG340 (11 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Long cables supplying the power to cameras cause large voltage drops - I have one run of about 15m to a camera and it needs the power supply set to 15.5 Volts in order for the camera to see the 12 volts that it needs.
> 
> G.



Yes cable length / voltage drop is a real issue with 12v DC


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## Spectric (11 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> with the old style linear power supplies,


Even these type of PSU had regulated outputs and are the better choice for audio amplifiers but as Sandyn has said the issues come down to the basics of electrical theory and not the type of PSU. The problem not completely mentioned is that by increasing the voltage at one end to compensate for the volt drop caused by the long cables you are decreasing efficiency and wasting energy. When designing electrical circuits you size the wire so that it can carry the required load current and within a specified volt drop, this means increasing the csa as the length increases upto a point.


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## Spectric (11 Jun 2022)

SamG340 said:


> Yes cable length / voltage drop is a real issue with 12v DC


Even worse when vehicles used 6 volt electric's and one of the reasons why the national grid use high voltages for transmission. 

Thinking about the CCTV then why not use 24 volt camera's as this would halve your problem and solve it.


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## Housey210 (11 Jun 2022)

Spectric said:


> You don't give amps, the load draws the amperage required so providing your power supply is capable of meeting the total demand of the camera's then you will be ok. If there is insufficient power then this leads to volt drop and potentially the system cannot function. It is not good to coil up excess cable.


I am going to dig out my multimeter to establish dc at camera end! Cables now unwound. Cut outs tend to be at night so I guess the infra red has more of an impact on the draw than the camera. Motion sensor mode also switched off. Amps, of what?


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## Gordon Tarling (11 Jun 2022)

Don't forget to have the camera connected and active when you measure the voltage - it'll be interesting to see what it is.

G.


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## Gordon Tarling (11 Jun 2022)

Spectric said:


> Even worse when vehicles used 6 volt electric's and one of the reasons why the national grid use high voltages for transmission.
> 
> Thinking about the CCTV then why not use 24 volt camera's as this would halve your problem and solve it.


Yes, 24V cameras would help, but they all seem to be 12V!

G.


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Sandyn said:


> With all due respect, I think you have mis-read what is happening. You are correct there used to unregulated linear supplies, but that's not what I am referring to in this particular case.
> 
> The OP has long power leads going to his camera, so to compensate for the voltage drop, they have to increase the supply voltage. It has nothing to do with the difference between a linear supply and a switch mode. You can get linear supplies with excellent regulation, but since they rely on a controlled voltage drop over a linear device(2N3055) they are less efficient than a switch mode.
> 
> ...


You are assuming that I have little to no knowledge of electronics... you know what they say about assuming something...

As for the camera seeing an overvolt condition- well that would only happen if the PSU was overvoltage to begin with-so it is an inappropriate PSU to begin with- it would overvolt under almost all conditions- long leads or not...
Yes professionals will in the appropriate conditions use an 'overvoltage' supply- but they also don't feed it to the camera direct, but use it to feed a local regulator board at the camera (assuming it doesn't incorporate it internally)
(and yes, I did for many years hold a NSW class A/D/E security licence- which is patrol, alarm sales and cctv installation..)
;-)
(I got a lot of electronics experience under my belt- half a centuries worth- working in the mines I both designed and made electronics- including power supplies...)
;-)


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Yes, 24V cameras would help, but they all seem to be 12V!
> 
> G.


12v are common in the 'consumer level' 'el cheapo's- but there are available 5v, 12v, 24v, and 48v ones also available- plus of course the pro's would know to use a higher voltage at the feed end and then use a regulated feed circuit at the camera end...
;-)


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> I am going to dig out my multimeter to establish dc at camera end! Cables now unwound. Cut outs tend to be at night so I guess the infra red has more of an impact on the draw than the camera. Motion sensor mode also switched off. Amps, of what?


You have (depending on the camera in question) up to double the amperage of the camera current drawn... feeding the IR illumination diodes- thus the current is far higher when they are on...
more current = higher voltage drop ie less voltage to power the camera...
(the pros on REALLY long runs- feed that run with a separate high voltage PSU (often double or more its requirements), then add a regulated LV supply at the far end- that way regardless of voltage drop, the camera gets a regulated supply...
ie if it is a 12v camera, then I would use a 24v feed at the DVR/camera feed location, then at the camera end use a 12-24v to 12v converter- that way, regardless of voltage drop, get a stable 12v at the end of the feed, regardless of the varying feed voltage...
(this is why the pro's can do what the average consumer can't- it's all in knowing what to do lol)


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Spectric said:


> Even these type of PSU had regulated outputs and are the better choice for audio amplifiers but as Sandyn has said the issues come down to the basics of electrical theory and not the type of PSU. The problem not completely mentioned is that by increasing the voltage at one end to compensate for the volt drop caused by the long cables you are decreasing efficiency and wasting energy. When designing electrical circuits you size the wire so that it can carry the required load current and within a specified volt drop, this means increasing the csa as the length increases upto a point.


SOME (very few) had regulated outputs most were very basic circuits-and any minor fluctuations on the AC input was reflected on the output...

A 12v switchmode wouldn't be at 15v in the first place- only linear PSU's exhibit this behaviour- a switchmode loaded and unloaded voltages are practically identical- and at the end of a long run, the switchmode would indeed drop- but it would be below (well below in this case) 12v- unless the manufacturer for some bizarre reason provided a PSU that would blow up the camera 'unless plugged into a 100m power lead'...
Unlikely...

Increasing the cable size was indeed the very first thing I mentioned...
"I would suggest using just a premade video cable (BNC connectors are the most common), and use a separate heavyduty fig 8 double insulated power cable (4mm) ie the black sheathed fig 8 used in automotive use for the power lines..."

;-)

(that wire size was chosen to accomodate the 'average consumer grade' CCTV camera's power consumption and a 100m distance between the camera and the PSU (note it is far larger than the power cables in the 'all in one' combination leads- which are usually 1mm^2 or less in size...)


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## Sandyn (11 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> You are assuming that I have little to no knowledge of electronics... you know what they say about assuming something...


I did said 'with all due respect'. 50 years is a lot of experience and I say it again with all due respect, but I still think you are misunderstanding what I am saying and what my original comment was about. The user had a 12V camera connected via long power leads, so in order to compensate for the volts drop, they simply used a 15.5V supply to get 12V at the end of the long leads. 

My comment was just a warning to anyone who simply increased the voltage to compensate for volts drop, runs the risk of exposing the camera input circuit to a higher voltage that it was designed to withstand.


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## PDW125 (11 Jun 2022)

Superduner said:


> 4 camera HDD based Reolink system for a client using power over ethernet.



I run Reolink PoE stuff and it’s excellent - the app is pretty good too and 100m is no issue with PoE on CAT5E or CAT6 as long as it is not CCA cable


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## Dabop (11 Jun 2022)

Sandyn said:


> I did said 'with all due respect'. 50 years is a lot of experience and I say it again with all due respect, but I still think you are misunderstanding what I am saying and what my original comment was about. The user had a 12V camera connected via long power leads, so in order to compensate for the volts drop, they simply used a 15.5V supply to get 12V at the end of the long leads.
> 
> My comment was just a warning to anyone who simply increased the voltage to compensate for volts drop, runs the risk of exposing the camera input circuit to a higher voltage that it was designed to withstand.


The OP didnt have that, one poster later on said he had done so (and I myself said that using a higher voltage supply at the feed end wasn't exactly uncommon)- but a professional wouldn't have done as the poster in question did (ie try to compensate for the line voltage by trying to supply a 'matched voltage' PSU- which probably plugging it in is the least of your issues- the voltage swings between day and night (IR on and off) would see it having a short life...)
The 'correct' way of doing it would be a much higher voltage PSU at the feed end- and at the camera end, fit a regulated voltage supply between the feed and the camera- that way there is no risk....
That's why professionals do things one way, and amateurs do it whatever they think might work... 
(yes it may, or in other cases may not... the pro way will work in every case....)
:-(


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## Sandyn (11 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> The OP didnt have that,


With all due respect, you have misunderstood what I was saying. My post was not aimed at the OP. I don't think there is any point continuing this 'conversation' It's irrelevant to the thread. I wish you well.


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Yes, 24V cameras would help, but they all seem to be 12V!
> 
> G.


to be honest I thought they were all 12v! Eight camera kit, swann, and as I said pleased with the quality and their support both online and phone.(influential in my purchasing)


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> to be honest I thought they were all 12v! Lesson learnt.


5v, 12v, 24v, 48v- all available...
Pro tip- on really long runs, feed it 24 or 32v at the power source end, and if you have a 12v camera, use a 'multivoltage in, 12v out' regulator between the power cables coming in, and the camera itself, that way you get a stable 12v regardless of loading on the line- let the voltage rise and fall, the reg doesnt care (the nighttime current is far higher, most cameras will use around 250mA during the day, but might rise to nearly an amp at night with the IR LEDs running...)
Something like this is weatherproof (although I'd still mount it in a junction box myself) and will keep voltage swings from long lines and high voltage power supplies from frying the cameras electrics, or making it shut down at night because of the increased current...


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> The OP didnt have that, one poster later on said he had done so (and I myself said that using a higher voltage supply at the feed end wasn't exactly uncommon)- but a professional wouldn't have done as the poster in question did (ie try to compensate for the line voltage by trying to supply a 'matched voltage' PSU- which probably plugging it in is the least of your issues- the voltage swings between day and night (IR on and off) would see it having a short life...)
> The 'correct' way of doing it would be a much higher voltage PSU at the feed end- and at the camera end, fit a regulated voltage supply between the feed and the camera- that way there is no risk....
> That's why professionals do things one way, and amateurs do it whatever they think might work...
> (yes it may, or in other cases may not... the pro way will work in every case....)
> :-(


thanks for input, just wondering, is there a safe percentage increase to the 12v? Looking at a cctv switching psu's that has a potentiometer to increase.


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

The furthest camera is 12mtrs from hd. All eight cameras are wired using the factory included 18mtr leads.


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Don't forget to have the camera connected and active when you measure the voltage - it'll be interesting to see what it is.
> 
> G.


Will a loop tester thingy be needed for that?


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> thanks for input, just wondering, is there a safe percentage increase to the 12v? Looking at a cctv switching psu's that has a potentiometer to increase.


I wouldn't recommend relying on the voltage drop along the power cable to drop it reliably, as the drop varies according to the current flowing through it (ohms law)- I would rise it up but only using a reg like that in my photo to regulate the voltage at the camera end (one like that that can take 5-32v input so you don't even have to fiddle with the voltage at the powersupply at all- unless it falls below 5v at the camera end- as that reg will take it and and boost it back up to 12v...


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> Will a loop tester thingy be needed for that?


You can easily make your own to measure the voltage, don't even need a soldering iron, just a small screwdriver...
Get a plug and a socket (most are 2.7mm DC barrel connectors) with attached screw terminals, hook + to + and - to - on them and then plug it into the camera end, and use the screw terminals to measure from with your meter...
(do this in a dark room, or put your finger over the light sensor to trip the IR LEDs on- this is when it will draw maximum current...)
(doublecheck that it is wired correctly before plugging in!!!)
These can also be used on those regs for solderless wiring (but then I would REALLY advise putting it all in a weatherproof enclosure/junction box lol)


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> You can easily make your own to measure the voltage, don't even need a soldering iron, just a small screwdriver...
> Get a plug and a socket (most are 2.7mm DC barrel connectors) with attached screw terminals, hook + to + and - to - on them and then plug it into the camera end, and use the screw terminals to measure from with your meter...
> (do this in a dark room, or put your finger over the light sensor to trip the IR LEDs on- this is when it will draw maximum current...)
> (doublecheck that it is wired correctly before plugging in!!!)
> ...


thanks.


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## Crazy Dave (12 Jun 2022)

Housey210 said:


> Anyone have any experience of cctv. The cameras keep blacking out! Restore is done unconnecting and reconnecting power supply at camera, jack plug. One 1amp, 12v dc, power supply unit feeds two swann cameras and with just one camera being lost, in the paired units of 8, I am thinking it is a power issue. Great system, easy to use and 4 days recording so not looking to change anything bar the power units to a dedicated cctv psu. My question is, can one have too many amps as the psu I looking at gives 1.65 amps per channel, compared to the existing .5 amp? No amp rating on camera! Existing system is all prewired with 30mtr cables. Another thought I had was the excess cable as that had to be tidied up by means of large loop.


I'm having a similar issue with a single camera on it's own PSU, for some reason it will lose power and then come back on again seconds later. The only way that I'm aware that this is happening is because I get an email saying "camera is offline" but by the time I login to the camera it's working again.
So, I would suggest if you can to swap the camera that has the issue with another one and see if the problem follows or it may be easier to swap the PSU's that way you'll know what you're dealing with.

Remember KISS (keep it simple stupid).
Good luck.

Edit: Why not just scrap the PSU get a lead acid battery, a 100watt solar panel and a 10amp charge controller and run the lot from the battery then even if there's a power cut your camera will still be working. Just a thought.


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Crazy Dave said:


> I'm having a similar issue with a single camera on it's own PSU, for some reason it will lose power and then come back on again seconds later. The only way that I'm aware that this is happening is because I get an email saying "camera is offline" but by the time I login to the camera it's working again.
> So, I would suggest if you can to swap the camera that has the issue with another one and see if the problem follows or it may be easier to swap the PSU's that way you'll know what you're dealing with.
> 
> Remember KISS (keep it simple stupid).
> ...


That's exactly what I am doing at the front gate here- running a half km long power cable from the shed would be 'an issue' (thats how long my driveway is here lol)- local at the gate solar, battery and a long range wifi link back to the shed (it will run the gate opener as well, with a wifi intercom and wifi controller so I can talk to someone at the gate and remotely open it...)
There's now a gate at the 'post box drop box in the center, drive 1/2 a kilometre and you get back to my place...

Wired??? yeah thats not gunna happen lol


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> You can easily make your own to measure the voltage, don't even need a soldering iron, just a small screwdriver...
> Get a plug and a socket (most are 2.7mm DC barrel connectors) with attached screw terminals, hook + to + and - to - on them and then plug it into the camera end, and use the screw terminals to measure from with your meter...
> (do this in a dark room, or put your finger over the light sensor to trip the IR LEDs on- this is when it will draw maximum current...)
> (doublecheck that it is wired correctly before plugging in!!!)
> ...


top tip.


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## Housey210 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> 5v, 12v, 24v, 48v- all available...
> Pro tip- on really long runs, feed it 24 or 32v at the power source end, and if you have a 12v camera, use a 'multivoltage in, 12v out' regulator between the power cables coming in, and the camera itself, that way you get a stable 12v regardless of loading on the line- let the voltage rise and fall, the reg doesnt care (the nighttime current is far higher, most cameras will use around 250mA during the day, but might rise to nearly an amp at night with the IR LEDs running...)
> Something like this is weatherproof (although I'd still mount it in a junction box myself) and will keep voltage swings from long lines and high voltage power supplies from frying the cameras electrics, or making it shut down at night because of the increased current...
> View attachment 137559


top tip


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## Spectric (12 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Yes, 24V cameras would help, but they all seem to be 12V!



I think they call them dual voltage camera's so they run on 12 Vdc or 24 Vac.


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Spectric said:


> I think they call them dual voltage camera's so they run on 12 Vdc or 24 Vac.


The mob that make my long range wifi routers have a 48v one that plugs into their 'combo' system (its a wifi router (long range) that can also have their solar controller (up to150w panel) and their camera, all running off a 48v battery bank- it allows you to monitor battery voltage etc as well as view the camera, all from the one app- even do 'controlled shutdowns' at avrious states of charge (kill the router if the battery is low, and only store video locally, or activate it again if the camera is triggered
They aren't the only 48v ones out there- these tend to be aimed more at the commercial market rather than 'home systems' where long runs (say on a factory or the like) and larger IR LED arrays (to light up larger areas) are required...


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## Sandyn (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> The mob that make my long range wifi routers have a 48v one that plugs into their 'combo' system (its a wifi router (long range)


Who manufacturers it. That sounds interesting. My son-in-law has a similar situation to yours, an entrance which is far from the house.


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## PDW125 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> The mob that make my long range wifi routers have a 48v one that plugs into their 'combo' system (its a wifi router



This is because it is designed to run on PoE - most likely configured to operate at IEEE 802.3at which is 44-53v (48v nominal) 30W per port. This is the benefit on using PoE for runs up to 300m as it uses the spare pairs of cables in the CAT5/6 cable. 

Using a 48v buck/driver from a 12-24v backup battery and a solar panel will allow you to run a LR wifi link from one of the usual suspects as they don’t have a significant power draw. You can set up a wifi repeater, PoE router and camera all on the same setup and it’s pretty seamless.


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

PDW125 said:


> This is because it is designed to run on PoE - most likely configured to operate at IEEE 802.3at which is 44-53v (48v nominal) 30W per port. This is the benefit on using PoE for runs up to 300m as it uses the spare pairs of cables in the CAT5/6 cable.
> 
> Using a 48v buck/driver from a 12-24v backup battery and a solar panel will allow you to run a LR wifi link from one of the usual suspects as they don’t have a significant power draw. You can set up a wifi repeater, PoE router and camera all on the same setup and it’s pretty seamless.


correct, There are quite a few brands using either 24v or 48v, designed to run off POE (its a pain there are two standards)
:-(


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Sandyn said:


> Who manufacturers it. That sounds interesting. My son-in-law has a similar situation to yours, an entrance which is far from the house.


Mine are Unifi (using 2 LR routers- still to be installed)
The 'flying saucer' lol
I have one up 5m in the air already, that one is going at the gate, once I buy the metal pole and do all the installing required (its right at its limit, I tested it holding it up in the air at the gate on a broom handle lol- it links, but the throughput at that distance is well down from its rated ghz range- but I don't need that kind of speed for a single camera (ok maybe two), and the intercom and gate remote...


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## PDW125 (12 Jun 2022)

The ones using 24v tend not to be compliant with 802.3at as they use proprietary connections even though it is down standard CAT cable. The issue there is you can’t use other devices or standard PoE routers - they usually use PoE “Injectors” which are used as pairs to apply/extract the voltage on the spare cable pairs and the wiring then is up to the vendors. I’ve seen injectors using both spare pairs as +/- and it creates noise on the Tx/Rx pairs. For installations that don’t need to be highly secure then IP cameras on PoE are probably the quickest and easiest route.


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## DRC (12 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Long cables supplying the power to cameras cause large voltage drops - I have one run of about 15m to a camera and it needs the power supply set to 15.5 Volts in order for the camera to see the 12 volts that it needs.
> 
> G.


How about cutting excess cable and use Wago connectors?


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

PDW125 said:


> The ones using 24v tend not to be compliant with 802.3at as they use proprietary connections even though it is down standard CAT cable. The issue there is you can’t use other devices or standard PoE routers - they usually use PoE “Injectors” which are used as pairs to apply/extract the voltage on the spare cable pairs and the wiring then is up to the vendors. I’ve seen injectors using both spare pairs as +/- and it creates noise on the Tx/Rx pairs. For installations that don’t need to be highly secure then IP cameras on PoE are probably the quickest and easiest route.


802.3at PoE is 48v, 802.3af PoE is 24v... (usually)
Then there are the 'propriety' ones that use whatever they want- a pain when you are mixing and matching...


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## PDW125 (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> 802.3at PoE is 48v, 802.3af PoE is 24v... (usually)
> Then there are the 'propriety' ones that use whatever they want- a pain when you are mixing and matching...



The difference in at and af is the power not the voltage - af is the PoE standard at 15.3W max, at increased this under PoE+ to 30W and bt is now available to take to PoE++ in carrier class units which is between 60-100W per channel. 

Useful link here on what can be powered by each type 










Understanding PoE Standards and PoE Wattage | FS Community


There are three PoE standards of PoE/PoE+/PoE++, all of them have different PoE wattages. What are their differences? All explanations of PoE standards and wattage are here.




community.fs.com


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Like phones and their 'fast chargers' the POE injectors have increased the power, but as the cables are the same, you can have the same amperage (limited by the cable size). but increased wattage by upping the voltage...
(W=VxA for those who aren't into the electrickery stuff on the side)

(you want more watts, you need to make the volts bigger, or the amps... The amps is limited by the cable size- to increase them, you need thicker cables- or you raise the volts instead... Raising the voltage has the added advantage of making the voltage drop caused by the cable resistance to become less of a % of the supply voltage- A 5% drop caused by the resistance of the cable at a specific voltage and wattage is smaller in voltage terms the higher the voltage is...)
Thats why say cross country powerlines are hundreds of thousands of volts, rather than 240v... if they were at240v, those cables would be the size of a bus!!!!

(none of this is aimed at you btw PDW125, just for those who might not be versed in the magic electrickery stuff lol and why any of this matters)


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## MikeK (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> Like phones and their 'fast chargers' the POE injectors have increased the power, but as the cables are the same, you can have the same amperage (limited by the cable size). but increased wattage by upping the voltage...
> (W=VxA for those who aren't into the electrickery stuff on the side)



One of the funniest things I saw just before I retired was a remote POE camera modification at one of the units I supported. The technician was tasked to install a camera in a remote area, which was well beyond the range of the copper cable. Instead of asking for help, he decided it can't be that difficult and spent about two weeks trying to troubleshoot his project until his Commander called for help. The technician added a media converter to the POE injector output, ran several hundred meters of OC3 fiber to the camera location, and then put another media converter at the camera end. He was clueless why it didn't work until I explained the problem to him. We approached the problem with a different solution to meet the Commander's intent.


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

:-O


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## Sandyn (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> Mine are Unifi (using 2 LR routers- still to be installed)
> The 'flying saucer' lol


Had a look at the site, some really good stuff on there. and good prices considering the technology. Are you able to get connection with these units, or do you need a high gain antennas? What speed did you get with your broom test? Did you have to get above the tree line?


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## Dabop (12 Jun 2022)

Well the


Sandyn said:


> Had a look at the site, some really good stuff on there. and good prices considering the technology. Are you able to get connection with these units, or do you need a high gain antennas? What speed did you get with your broom test? Did you have to get above the tree line?


The camera could hit its full speed (I didn't have any way if actually doing a speed test, as I wasn't going to drag the laptop and the inverter down to the gate lol (its internal battery died years ago- its well over decade old!!!)
The LR has its own internal antenna, indeed it has no provision for an external one...

I was well below the treeline (I was standing on the tailgate of the ute, holding that exact LR electrical tapped to a broom handle- it wasn't that high... and the trees are much higher than I'd plan on putting it (I need a way to lift anything higher than a 5m pole up into the air- they aren't light...)

The one already in the air is on a TV antenna J pole at the peak of the shed roof- making the LT about 7 to 8m above ground level...


The other one was tested where the gate now is (where the mail lockbox is a bit down the driveway) it was maybe 3.5 to 4m up in total, the final one up the metal pole will be 5m up- that gate is exactly 500m away from the shed...




Getting above those trees would be 'problematic', many are 10 to 12m tall, some higher...


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## Sandyn (12 Jun 2022)

Dabop said:


> Getting above those trees would be 'problematic', many are 10 to 12m tall, some higher...


thanks for that. My son in law's place has a band of oak trees about 5 trees deep and this time of year, they are in full foliage. it sounds like it might still get usable bandwidth. Once you do get it all set up if you ever do a speed test it would be interesting to see the results.


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## DRC (13 Jun 2022)

Is this still a UK workshop group?


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## Dabop (13 Jun 2022)

I'm in OZ as you can see, but originally came from the UK lol


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## Housey210 (15 Jun 2022)

Update


Gordon Tarling said:


> Don't forget to have the camera connected and active when you measure the voltage - it'll be interesting to see what it is.
> 
> G.


Voltage readings at camera. 18mtr factory terminated lead - daytime reading 11.68v. Night time reading with leds on 10.49v- 1amp.


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## Gordon Tarling (16 Jun 2022)

Your daytime reading looks OK, but I feel that the night time value is a little low. The ultimate solution is to do what others have suggested and fit a 12V regulator at the camera end of the long cable, with a higher voltage supply feeding it at the other end. A heavier gauge cable is also an option, but perhaps more tricky to install. Or you could do as I've done and use one of those variable output supply things which can be found on Ebay - I started it off at 13V and bit by bit increased that until the dropouts stopped. I have no idea what the voltage is at the camera end, but it is still working fine after a year or so.

G.


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## Housey210 (16 Jun 2022)

Gordon Tarling said:


> Your daytime reading looks OK, but I feel that the night time value is a little low. The ultimate solution is to do what others have suggested and fit a 12V regulator at the camera end of the long cable, with a higher voltage supply feeding it at the other end. A heavier gauge cable is also an option, but perhaps more tricky to install. Or you could do as I've done and use one of those variable output supply things which can be found on Ebay - I started it off at 13V and bit by bit increased that until the dropouts stopped. I have no idea what the voltage is at the camera end, but it is still working fine after a year or so.
> 
> G.


Awaiting delivery of a dedicated psu, fan cooled with variable 2v voltage increase, so I just hope that solves the issue. If not, then the 12v regulator may be the solution. thanks to all


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