# Ammonia - Fumed Oak



## Neil Farrer (11 May 2013)

Help me out, google's failed! Fuming Oak in Ammonia, needs a certain "grade" or concentration, anybody tell me what that is and where to get it. I thought it was something like 80 grade and the chemist stocked it but I have not managed to obtain any, Any ideas what it's likely to cost?

Anyone point me in the right direction please.

Thanks

Neil


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## woodyturner (11 May 2013)

I found this hardware store, as strong domestic cleaning ammonia. This is about 20% - 25% and perfectly adequate for overnight or 24 hour processes.

Supposedly you can also find ammonia in a drafting or technical draawing supplier. No doubt this was available once (it was part of a process for duplicating blueprints) but I've not found it there in recent years.

Don't use anhydrous ammonia. That's really nasty stuff; highly toxic and unneccessary.

You'll also need a couple of small flat dishes, to put the ammonia in. These should be plastic - I use take-away trays. Don't use metal, especially aluminium foil ! Ammonia is corrosive to aluminium, sufficiently so to eat a hole through the bottom of a tray.



Safety gear
Ammonia is noxious, but it's quite easy to control. It's not essential (with only 25% ammonia) to use a mask, but it makes it more pleasant. Ammonia dissolves easily in water, so it's important that your mask has eye protection, or you might as well not bother. The mask should use filter cartridges suitable for ammonia, but a basic charcoal vapour filter will reduce the nuisance. Dust filters and paper masks aren't any use though.

I also found this link http://www.forestryforum.com/board/inde ... #msg645278

Also Ammonia Fuming
Ammonia Fuming is a process in which white oak is exposed to the fumes of anhydrous ammonia. The fumes react with the tannins in the wood, which produces a gray color on the surface of the wood. When treated with Watco Danish Oil, the wood turns a deep brown color.
This process was developed by Gustave Stickley for the Arts and Crafts furniture he made and sold, as a way to approximate the coloring of English Brown Oak, which is not avavilable in the United States. It is still used today by furniture makers who want to replicate the look of turn-of-the-century Arts and Crafts furniture.
A note of warning: Ahnhydrous Ammonia is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. It is very caustic and must be handled with care. ALWAYS WEAR A RESPIRATOR WHEN HANDLING THIS CHEMICAL! Household ammonia is usually .5% - 3% ammonia to water. Anhydrous Ammonia is 23%. The fumes are really strong, so it should only be opened in a well ventilated area. This does not include your kitchen. Anhydrous Ammonia can be obtained from Blueprint Supply websites. it is only available by the gallon, and requires a $20.00 hazmat handling fee.
That said, nothing in the world looks as good as fumed white oak. I have not yet found a combination of finishes that really matches it.
To fume oak, build an airtight tent around your object with plastic dropcloths. I like to try to use a clear plastic so I can check on the progress without having to open the tent. Pour about 1/4 cup of anhydrous ammonia into a glass container, place it in the tent, and seal the tent completely. Dedending on the size of the piece, and the roominess of the tent, you will probably have to wait between five and twelve hours. My experiments have show that after about twelve hours, there is not a significance in color change.
To dispose of the ammonia, mix it thouroughly into five gallons of tap water. This will dilute it enough that it can be poured down the sink.
Do not sand the work after you fume it, as you will sand off the top layer of the wood that has reacted with the fumes, and it will look like white oak again.
You can use this process with other woods, but you have to brush on tannic acid, so the fumes will have something to react to. I have not really liked the colors as much when I use this on anythign other than white oak.
Italic textFine WoodworkingItalic text Magazine has a couple of articles about this process that are a little more specific.

There is loads of it Neil I just googed it


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## marcros (11 May 2013)

I used some household stuff. Couldn't find it in the supermarkets but a little hardware shop sold it. Not expensive 2 or 3 quid. To be honest you could probably use "yellow water" but it will take a long time.


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## Neil Farrer (11 May 2013)

Thanks Woody, but where do you get it from, pharmaceutical suppliers and chemists dont have it, I remember the drawing office stench of the stuff as well! Any ideas on where to buy, I can't get any response from Mr Google!


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## marcros (11 May 2013)

Google will send you to boots. Boots will look at you as though you are insane. 

Try a little hardware shop, independent builders merchant or failing that Smith and Rodger do it.


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## 12345Peter (11 May 2013)

From google

<http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ammonia+for+sale+uk&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=44-OUbeML4ea1AWv94DoBQ>

<http://www.jpennyltd.co.uk/shopping/pgm-more_information.php?id=157>

Regards
Peter


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## AndyT (11 May 2013)

I bought some from our long-running local independent hardware store. For those without such a useful place, ebay has plenty of choice on offer.


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## Chrispy (11 May 2013)

Ammonia 8-80 is I think as strong as you get or need, most polish supply companys will have it.
Ask for Ammonia eight eighty


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## EnErY (11 May 2013)

10 Bottles Of Magners Cider Gives Me Enough ammonia
Bill #-o


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## Sheptonphil (11 May 2013)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Strong-Ammoni ... 1e79e1396b

23% Sold as suitable for fuming.


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## Phil Pascoe (12 May 2013)

I read an article in the wood working press some years ago about a guy who faked oak furniture at the top end of the quality scale, including stuff that had been bought by several museums - he left table frames in pigsties so that the pigs used the legs as scratching posts, and the ammonia darkened the legs more from the bottom up. Other stuff he just suspended out of reach of the animals in a sty or byre until it reached the required colour. This would have been probably about a century ago.


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## Neil Farrer (12 May 2013)

Thanks for your help so far guys. Next issue is how much do you use? I was going to use one of the see through plastic boxes with the handles that clip over the box lid to make it airtight, 





. 

The volume of this box is 35 litres. Any idea of how much ammonia I should use?


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## marcros (12 May 2013)

Half a cup full or thereabouts. It isn't that critical.


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## Neil Farrer (12 May 2013)

Neil Farrer":3dl1vla8 said:


> Thanks for your help so far guys. Next issue is how much do you use? I was going to use one of the see through plastic boxes with the handles that clip over the box lid to make it airtight,
> 
> .
> 
> The volume of this box is 35 litres. Any idea of how much ammonia I should use?



Thanks, appreciate that its not critical, just didnt want to waste it! thanks for the guidelines.


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## marcros (12 May 2013)

Depending on whether you want to just darken it a bit or to achieve a specific colour, it may be better to put in a smaller amount so that the change happens slowly


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## spinks (12 May 2013)

has anyone got a before and after photograph of this here "fumed oak" so i can have a clue what your talking about haha...please??


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## Richard Findley (12 May 2013)

I have played around with a little bit of fuming (that is a turn of phrase rather than what I actually did before the H&S lot get on :shock: :shock: :lol: :lol: ) and found that, while an interesting technique, it isn't all that reliable, or maybe put better, you need more experience than I have to get consistant results!!

I only used an Ammonia cleaning product from a local hardwear shop and basically made a tent with a large extractor bag, leaving the Oak in it for varying lengths of time. You can get from a mid brown to almost black. I found English Oak seemed to work better than American White, although I must admit, by the time I tried the AWO the bottle was a couple of years old, so may have lost its potency a bit! 

In my opinion, fun to (carefully :roll: :wink: ) experiment with, but spirit or water based stains are more reliable and controlable if you have a particular colour in mind.

Cheers

Richard


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## Bodrighy (12 May 2013)

If you want to go full black then keep a bottle of vinegar with some wire wool in it for a week and then brush it on. Oak goes black immediately. Lot safer. I was told it works with lemon juice as well but so far haven't had any success. 

Pete


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## marcros (12 May 2013)

I can't remember but I have a feeling that the vinegar and wire wool turns the whole surface of the wood black, but fuming will leave any medullary rays visible. It is a while since I have done either and I never fumed the oak as far as black. Worth trying both on some scrap- they are handy methods to know.


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## duncanh (13 May 2013)

marcros":12vjd4q8 said:


> Google will send you to boots. Boots will look at you as though you are insane.
> 
> Try a little hardware shop, independent builders merchant or failing that Smith and Rodger do it.




A couple of years ago I bought some Household Ammonia from Boots. It was in the cleaning section I think, in one of the larger stores.

It's 9.5% but worked fine when left in a covered plastic container in the sun


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## Neil Farrer (14 May 2013)

spinks":8mkfhad6 said:


> has anyone got a before and after photograph of this here "fumed oak" so i can have a clue what your talking about haha...please??



Here's a before and after, these are two pen blanks from the same piece of flamed European oak. The ammonia was £1.99 (500ml) from the local hardware store but doesnt say what strength it was. The mix recommendations were 1:50 for cleaning purposes so that might give a clue to the original strength.

The "fuming" took about four hours only, and these are the reults. Looks better in the flesh!


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## woodyturner (15 May 2013)

Well done Neil


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## János (16 May 2013)

Hello,

It is impossible to colour wood black with ammonia. The tonal range moves in the browns. You can fume any species with high tannin content: oak, black locust, larch, cherry etc. react well to this treatment. The heartwood and sapwood (which contains less tannin) reacts differently, so uneven colouration might occur. Even different pieces of the same species react differently, so it is wise to make every parts of a piece from the same plank or bole. 
Urine, a source of ammonia was used to colour wood before the advent of lightfast synthetic dyes. Burying woodwork into manure to colour it was quite common practice. 


Have a nice day,

János


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