# Jones & Shipman 540 Valve Block



## Badee (12 Jul 2022)

Hi everyone! I'm new here - located all the way down in South Africa.

I'm hoping that I can get some old machines back up and running with some assistance from this forum.

The first machine in question is a Jones and Shipman 540 surface grinder. We acquired it roughly 3 years ago, knowing very little about it. After watching some videos online, we were able to run it to see that everything was functioning as it should. Thereafter, the machine was not used. Somewhere in the interim it was moved to a new location, where we made sure to move it correctly. It was only until recently that we decided to wire the old 540 up - Let the story begin?

Step 1 was seeing to the oil. The window on the tank was registering no oil - so instead of just topping it up, we pulled the tank and gave it a good clean. Having removed all the gunk, we refitted everything, threw in some fresh oil and got ready to fire it up. I only just wish it was as simple as that!

The table now only traverses in one direction, regardless of the position of the lever. After some internet research, it suggested that it may be a stuck piston - caused by using the machine and then letting it stand for a long period of time. (I'm sure also made worse by dirty oil). So the tear down began, to gain access to the valve block, and this is where I seem to be stuck! Am I missing something small to remove this valve block? Or is there still a fair bit of disassembly that needs to happen? Please see pics below 

Any help/ advice/ input will be appreciated.


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## TFrench (12 Jul 2022)

Deema has done a brilliant photo thread of stripping and rebuilding his 540 here:
Thread 'Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild' Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild

I've not had to go into mine as far as the valve block so I can't advise!


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## deema (12 Jul 2022)

I didn’t take the control block apart, id really appreciate it if you could document how you get on with lots of pictures.
I believe there are a couple of bolts from memory to remove from the back to release the block.




I have the Schematics of what you should find inside.


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## Badee (13 Jul 2022)

TFrench said:


> Deema has done a brilliant photo thread of stripping and rebuilding his 540 here:
> Thread 'Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild' Jones and Shipman 540P Rebuild
> 
> I've not had to go into mine as far as the valve block so I can't advise!


Thank you for the link. Luckily I found it before tearing into our machine, so I certainly felt like I had a helping hand. (Thanks Deema!)


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## Badee (13 Jul 2022)

deema said:


> I didn’t take the control block apart, id really appreciate it if you could document how you get on with lots of pictures.
> I believe there are a couple of bolts from memory to remove from the back to release the block.
> 
> I have the Schematics of what you should find inside.
> View attachment 139476


I will try to document as much as possible. Seems like the next step is to pull the cross saddle to get to my hidden bolts.

Also, thanks for the schematics. Quite a bit better than the Illustrated Spare Parts Catalogue I have to work from . (See below for comparison to 18. Valve Block)


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## deema (13 Jul 2022)

You can get replacement seals for the block, but they are expensive!! If I had to go into it I’d seriously think about making my own out of gasket material and get them cut out from a CAD drawing.

Before you do open it up, have you checked that the ram isn’t healing out of one side? This is I believe a common problem


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## Badee (13 Jul 2022)

deema said:


> You can get replacement seals for the block, but they are expensive!! If I had to go into it I’d seriously think about making my own out of gasket material and get them cut out from a CAD drawing.
> 
> Before you do open it up, have you checked that the ram isn’t healing out of one side? This is I believe a common problem


I had a similar thought about the gaskets and intend exploring that option (if necessary). Shipping to SA is always a pain.

Can you please elaborate on the issue with the ram? Or link to a thread/ forum. My Googling isn't yielding much.

If that is indeed the issue, I have probably disassembled way too much. At least those parts will get a good clean.


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## deema (13 Jul 2022)

There are two types of seal in the piston, end seals and the piston seal. It’s the piston seal that seems to go the most, and results in the piston moving only one way. I’d power it up, try to move it both direction, and see initially if the end seals have failed. Then check the outlet of the piston to see if it’s still pushing oil through when trying to push it the way it’s not working, if oil is getting through then the piston seal needs replacing. Looking at what you’ve taken off, it’s just a bit of assembly to get it running.


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## deema (13 Jul 2022)

When I bought mine, I also tried googling expecting it to be easy to find a lot of info. I didn’t find much, hence me writing up my experience with working on one to hopefully help others thinking of this machine.


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## Badee (15 Jul 2022)

Deema, as per your suggestion, I did some reassembly and powered the machine. 

The first thing I noticed was a leak at the valve block gasket - behind the throttle handle and reverse lever. Probably caused by my fiddling.

The table only moves from right to left (when operating the machine). This is regardless of the reverse lever direction. Then I noticed a pool of oil, mostly under the RHS cylinder block and cylinder center - But I can't see where this oil is all coming from because everything is filthy! Manually "operating" the rod from left to right (the way it doesn't work) doesn't seem to make the leak worse.

A good clean is definitely in order here!


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## Stanley (15 Jul 2022)

Badee said:


> Hi everyone! I'm new here - located all the way down in South Africa.
> 
> I'm hoping that I can get some old machines back up and running with some assistance from this forum.
> 
> ...


Behind the valve bock there is a little hex head bolt with a seal on it , if you remove that you should be able to take the valve block off.


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## deema (15 Jul 2022)

If you look through my thread on the rebuild on page three I show how the oil flows from the V way into a sump before draining back down to the tank. This is located under the cylinder, mine was full of crud so it can be difficult to spot that the oil is coming from the way lubrication or from the cylinder. You can reduce (or increase) the way oil lubrication by a grub screw located under the throttle actuator lever or main reverse valve.

The hydraulic circuit for different ‘versions’ of the grinder show slightly different levels of detail. However, I believe they are all the same. I can’t remember where it is in mine.


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## deema (15 Jul 2022)

In your shoes, my next course of action would be to clean and then remove the cylinder assembly. Start up the machine and check that oil is being pumped to each of the ports for the hydraulic cylinder. You will then be able to verify that oil is getting where it should. If it is reaching both ports see if it’s pumping the same amount to each side by eye. I would then use a rubber bung to check that the oil pressure out of each port feels similar (ie just pushing the bung in by hand with great care. Under no circumstances use a finger to feel for the pressure) experts in hydraulics (which I am not) may have a better approach. With this you will have a high degree of confidence that it’s the cylinder rather the block.


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## deema (15 Jul 2022)

If you feel it is a blockage in the block rather than the cylinder after doing the tests, one thing you know is that oil is getting to one side of the cylinder. The hydraulic circuit shows that it’s a common path for the oil up to the reverse valve, from which it goes to the cylinder. I would first off take the reverse valve out, there is a ball bearing with a spring on top of it at the bottom (pain to get back together I detail howI did it in my threa) and check the passageways / clean them out. I would then blow air down each of the cylinder ports (with cylinder still removed) and check it’s making it’s way back to the valve. It will also hopefully blow out what ever is blocking the way I’d pop something to catch any gunge blown out in the valve recess before applying the air. If it’s still blocked I’d probably try something like strimmer cord to try and clear the blockage without disassembling the block. If that fails I would remove the block and again with air see if the blockage is in the table or in the block.


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## kaiten (17 Aug 2022)

Hi folks,
I recently joined the forum after lurking here for some time (more about me in my presentation post), and specifically reading @deema's excellent thread on his 540 overhaul.
I am also restoring a 540, but starts with a machine in a much shabbier state than you guys, although in a rather good mechanical condition. I will post about it in a dedicated thread to avoid spoiling yours!
@Badee , I observe you shared a photo of a parts list that I do not happen to recognize. I have a couple versions of the 540 manual including the one covering my early model, but the parts list do not look like this. They are exactly similar to the schematics/extracts Deema shared. Would you be able to share a scan of this precious document ? It also lists the detailed part numbers apparently, which is pretty useful.

Cheers,


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## Badee (14 Sep 2022)

kaiten said:


> Hi folks,
> I recently joined the forum after lurking here for some time (more about me in my presentation post), and specifically reading @deema's excellent thread on his 540 overhaul.
> I am also restoring a 540, but starts with a machine in a much shabbier state than you guys, although in a rather good mechanical condition. I will post about it in a dedicated thread to avoid spoiling yours!
> @Badee , I observe you shared a photo of a parts list that I do not happen to recognize. I have a couple versions of the 540 manual including the one covering my early model, but the parts list do not look like this. They are exactly similar to the schematics/extracts Deema shared. Would you be able to share a scan of this precious document ? It also lists the detailed part numbers apparently, which is pretty useful.
> ...



Rather late, sorry!


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## deema (14 Sep 2022)

@Badee thanks for sharing the manual, I haven’t seen that one before. Very informative, abd looks like nit much changed between the versions.

Did you fix the fault? Any pictures……hopefully?


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## kaiten (14 Sep 2022)

Hi @Badee , thanks a lot for sharing this manual/catalogue - it will come very handy !


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## Badee (15 Sep 2022)

deema said:


> @Badee thanks for sharing the manual, I haven’t seen that one before. Very informative, abd looks like nit much changed between the versions.
> 
> Did you fix the fault? Any pictures……hopefully?


Unfortunately, I have not fixed the fault yet. I pulled the table off before going to remove the 8 bolts holding the cylinder block assembly down (pg 27 in my manual). It wouldn't budge, and that's how it's been for the past 2 months. Other work also got in the way!

I'm back now, so let's see if I can get down to the bottom of this.


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## deema (15 Sep 2022)

There are a couple of dowels it sits on, they are tight to get the assembly off it. A gentle bit of percussion all around with a non marking mallet persuaded mine to release. Probably just grinding grit get in.


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## Badee (16 Sep 2022)

deema said:


> There are a couple of dowels it sits on, they are tight to get the assembly off it. A gentle bit of percussion all around with a non marking mallet persuaded mine to release. Probably just grinding grit get in.


The cylinder blocks weren't going anywhere with those dowels in place. After noticing that they were threaded, we jumped onto the lathe and just machined a small tool to help us pull the dowels out. May not have been the right way, but they eventually came out to say hello. The cylinder block assembly came off rather easily afterwards with a bump from a mallet.

I'll now follow your guide to checking the ports and passage ways. Thanks!


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## Badee (23 Sep 2022)

Valve block out and in pieces. (Un)fortunately, no pistons were stuck as I initially suspected. So.. clean up and rebuild begins soon.


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## deema (23 Sep 2022)

Of you could document in detail the rebuild of the valve block that would be appreciated. It’s one Of the few bits o haven’t taken apart. What are the gaskets made from? They look like metal ones? 
There should be a little ball bearing under one of the valves.

Is that all the bits in the photo?


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## Badee (28 Sep 2022)

deema said:


> Of you could document in detail the rebuild of the valve block that would be appreciated. It’s one Of the few bits o haven’t taken apart. What are the gaskets made from? They look like metal ones?
> There should be a little ball bearing under one of the valves.
> 
> Is that all the bits in the photo?


I am in the process of cleaning everything up - then, I will take photos of everything before reassembly.

The gaskets are all made from paper. The valve block gasket which seals the block to the cross saddle is of the Flexoid variety. The gaskets between the end plates and chambers of the valve block itself are also paper. They seem badly cut. Perhaps replaced at some point with non-OE part? The RHS cover plate appears to also have some silicon residue around the gasket. Hmm.. I think this job was done before.

I have scanned all the gaskets and faces of the valve block. I will draw them up in CAD and then cut new gaskets on our little vinyl cutter. I've decided to just use Flexoid again as someone else has.

All the bits were not in the photo, but they will definitely make an appearance here before being put back together (including the two ball bearings).


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## kaiten (29 Sep 2022)

Hi @Badee !
very nice. Interested if you can then share the drawings, I would like to cut a new set too if possible. I did not open/split the valve block yet, but the other gaskets are so old they have become brittle and cannot be removed without turning to ashes. Can you tell the thickness of the ones you removed, even though I get they may not be genuine parts ? What Flexoid thickness will you go for then ? I tend to use Klingerite gasket sheets - is Flexoid somewhat similar ?


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## Badee (5 Oct 2022)

kaiten said:


> Hi @Badee !
> very nice. Interested if you can then share the drawings, I would like to cut a new set too if possible. I did not open/split the valve block yet, but the other gaskets are so old they have become brittle and cannot be removed without turning to ashes. Can you tell the thickness of the ones you removed, even though I get they may not be genuine parts ? What Flexoid thickness will you go for then ? I tend to use Klingerite gasket sheets - is Flexoid somewhat similar ?


I will share the drawings for the gaskets as soon as we've tested them 

The (old) valve block cross saddle gasket is 0.4mm Flexoid - It says 0.4mm on the sheet and measures 0.28-0.35 with a micrometer. I've got a new sheet of 0.4 Flexoid which comes in at 0.37 on the micrometer. I will use it to replace all the gaskets, even though the internal valve block gaskets seem slimmer but measure all over the place (0.1x to 0.3x on the micrometer). So I guess ignorance will be bliss?

ITO gasket sheets: I knew nothing about them going into this project. I saw Flexoid on the machine - I bought Flexoid for the machine 

See the test gasket below


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## kaiten (13 Nov 2022)

Hi @Badee !
Sorry for the delayed answer, been away on business for a couple weeks. Work on my 540 goes on with all small to medium castings blasted, primed & painted, enough to keep my evenings busy - the bulk of the machine will be contracted as I have a company nearby.
Your gasket looks fantastic, I wish I could cut them as cleanly as you did.
I will probably try to laser-cut them once you share the drawings. My valve block is in a much shabbier cosmetic condition so it will have to be parted out anyway so I can work out the surface condition: It means gasket time !

How is the rest of the reassembly going ?

regards


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## TFrench (16 Nov 2022)

Should anyone need any 540 parts I've got one that I'll be breaking for spares.


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## kaiten (20 Nov 2022)

Hi @TFrench , thanks for the information. I have a small broken part : the trip lever latch (reference N7511 on page 26 of the parts list posted by @Badee -- it is not listed in the more recent parts list although I think the part is still present). 
The part is broken in two pieces, I found one half in the bottom of the valve gear cover.
I am interested if you happen to have this part available. I attach pics of the the broken part.

Besides that, could you post a few pics of the machine you will will/could break down ? Mine is missing the cooling unit...
I should soon be done blasting & painting all the castings, and reassembly will follow. I may stumble on a few other mishaps and need other parts, but don't know yet.

regards,


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