# Kitchen Fronts/Cabinet Fronts



## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Hey All

I am fairly new here and I guess new to woodworking in general but have done a few projects now so getting more confident.

The Mrs wants to change our MDF Oak Veneer like cabinet doors to white shaker style, so naturally, I'm looking into what it would take to make these. Here is what I am thinking, and wanted to get your thoughts to make sure I'm going down the right lines:

- Use Poplar Tulip Wood because it's cheap, easy to work with, and apparently somewhat durable, these will be primed and painted and joined either with Lap joints or biscuit.

- 15mm Doors total (to match existing), rails, and stiles to be 60mm and an MDF panel for the center glued and sitting on rebate joints or just routed slots

- Sourcing the Tulipwood from https://www.timbersource.co.uk/ to the tune of 220 quid (GBP) for 20 x 2m 15mm x 600mm

- I am hoping that if primed and painted that should be good enough so I don't have to buy edging?

- When painting, is there anything in particular that I need to do/buy to ensure that the paint deals with moisture and is able to be wiped down when the Mrs cleans?

I think that's it. If you guys think of anything else please let me know, otherwise, what do you think of the above?

Thanks
Raf


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## Doug71 (16 May 2020)

I would make the doors a bit thicker if you can.

Many people just make solid MDF doors, this is the easiest way 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px3D7wqycUc


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Thanks so much for the quick reply Doug, awesome video too


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## MikeG. (16 May 2020)

Welcome.

Poplar is fine for paint grade stuff, but I would suggest redwood PAR from a decent timber merchant. Cheaper, and every bit as good. I make mine much much thicker than you are proposing, and I would never contemplate making any door only 15mm thick (and that may well be ex-15mm, and come out closer to 10mm......in other words, a nominal dimension). The thinnest you should make a kitchen door is 20mm (ex 25mm PAR). With paneled doors like these (they're NOT Shaker-style, they're panel doors. We've been making paneled doors for hundreds of years before the Shakers even existed) you can just groove all the rails and stiles, and set a small tenon on the stiles into the groove. So long as everything is done accurately this is more than adequate.....although I prefer to cut bridle joints for doors.


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Thank you Mike for your detailed advice. My issue with making the doors thicker is that the frame/cabinet can only take a max of 25mm, so yes I suppose that will work.

I really like working with Redwood, I hacked an ikea kitchen island by sticking some doors on it with this stuff, however I found that the wood is too soft i.e your nails can easily make a mark.

Would you not recommend using MRMDF?

Thanks


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## MikeG. (16 May 2020)

Erm....no, I hate the stuff. I'm a woodworker. However, plenty of people make nice kitchens using it.

Redwood is harder than poplar, I reckon, and it's plenty robust enough for a kitchen.


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Thank you sir, out of interest where do you get your wood from?


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## owen (16 May 2020)

I'd use mrmdf especially if you're going to be painting the doors. If you were gonna build faceframes with inset doors, then sure you need to use solid timber but MRMDF would be fine for this job. 18mm with 6mm panels is fine or 22mm with 9mm panels is more solid looking and feeling.


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## TheTiddles (16 May 2020)

I’d use MRMDF, it’s a pain to paint (as is everything in my opinion), but it’s the right material for the job

Aidan


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Thank you Owen and Tiddels think I will give MRMDF a go and since it’s cheap makes it more attractive.

I’m in Hampshire can anyone recommend a half decent place to get timber and mdf? Right now it’s hard to get anything click and collected. Cheapest delivery is 15 quid but that’s from buildbase who aren’t timber people.

Any recommendations?


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## MikeG. (16 May 2020)

TheTiddles":2lgwzm3g said:


> I’d use MRMDF........... it’s the right material for the job.........



Well, I profoundly disagree with you Aidan on that one. How many of the MDF doors are going to be around in 25 years time do you reckon?


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## petermillard (16 May 2020)

MikeG.":18bdq4e6 said:


> TheTiddles":18bdq4e6 said:
> 
> 
> > I’d use MRMDF........... it’s the right material for the job.........
> ...


Well, all the ones I made Mike, though admittedly we’re going back ‘only’ 20 years or so. As previously mentioned MRMDF (not regular MDF) is the perfect material in a kitchen - flat, stable, takes paint well, largely impervious to moisture and changes in humidity. By all means use tulipwood if you prefer it - or just ‘hate’ MRMDF - but don’t pretend it’s because it’s ‘better’.

Personally, I’ve made many hundreds of panel doors in 22mm MRMDF with a 6 or 9mm panel, glued together with loose tenons - just like in that video - without any issues. 

Cheers. P


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## MikeG. (16 May 2020)

I'm not pretending, Peter. I'm claiming. And I'll claim again.....I think solid wood is better. Part of it is my preference for butt hinges, and part of it is having lived with 60 or 70 year old kitchen cupboard doors. Most of it is that I am an old school woodworker who likes things made of wood.

Before anyone gets defensive, I have already said that lots of people make really nice kitchens with MRMDF. It's just that they are not my preference, and I respectfully reject any claim of superiority made on their behalf.


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

If it’s any consolation guys I’m having the same wars within myself. Def this is a hard one 

Where do you guys get your boards from? Especially during these crazy times


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## porker (16 May 2020)

I see that a number of suppliers seem to be easing up restrictions on deliveries although some materials are in short supply. I am in the middle of a major renovation to my house and have used these people before .www.thetimbergroup.co.uk although from their High Wycome depot. I see they have a depot in Ascot and state that they deliver to 46 miles out. 

I don't know where you are in Hampshire but they may cover your area. They only deliver if you put a £300 order in, but I usually stock up on a few sheets of Medite MRMDF in 18mm and other thicknesses and they also do PAR redwood which I also use so can usually make up an order.

For painted doors I would always use MRMDF although I know its not everybodys choice. I have built wardrobes, bookshelves and other built in units from it using Peter Millard's techniques and often use redwood to edge and stiffen shelves and sometimes trim MDF edges although you can get a good finish on quality MRMDF without too much trouble.


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## NewbieRaf (16 May 2020)

Thank you sir I’ve just checked them out your right, Ascot would be my closest branch and it’s 25 quid for delivery


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## Max Power (17 May 2020)

Poplar or Tulip as its otherwise known would be a decent choice, its relatively cheap easy to work and finishes very smooth and good for paint finishes. The only downside is its quite easily dented, so Beech would be a more durable, although more expensive alternative, or Ash if you want the grain to show through.
The dust from mdf (which is wood dust +nasties) is horrendous and on no account expose yourself to it without adequate protection.


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## jon_c (20 May 2020)

Max Power":39h8muw7 said:


> Poplar or Tulip as its otherwise known would be a good choice, its relatively cheap easy to work and finishes very smooth and good for paint finishes
> The dust from mdf (which is wood dust +nasties) is horrendous and on no account expose yourself to it without adequate protection.



As much as I dislike MDF (it's just not _proper_ wood, is it?) a lot of the dust generated in a workshop is pretty bad for you. We should all probably be a bit more careful about extraction and use face masks more than we do. If you can get masks at the moment of course...


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## AJB Temple (20 May 2020)

I detest kitchens made of MDF. I always think it is a cheapskate, second rate thing to do. It's fine if you are a kitchen manufacturer making stuff for someone else for a price, but for my own house I think pride of workmanship AND materials choice is important. 

Hence I am in the same camp as Mike I'm afraid (though I suspect I use power tools more than he does). 

I would also say if you are simply making plain panelled doors, then your kitchen will look like any high street kitchen. This may be your brief from your wife, but why not look around for creative ideas. If all you are doing is making a lot of doors, then you could take some trouble to show a bit of craftsmanship in the detailing. For example you could make the frames out of hardwood, with visible pregame's joints, or a bit of scribed detailing. And take the trouble to use quality fittings - hinges and catches.


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## Max Power (26 May 2020)

jon_c":b64jjky3 said:


> As much as I dislike MDF (it's just not _proper_ wood, is it?) a lot of the dust generated in a workshop is pretty bad for you. We should all probably be a bit more careful about extraction and use face masks more than we do. If you can get masks at the moment of course...


That can't be said strongly enough Jon. I regularly use tropical hardwoods and the dust is horrible especially Iroko


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