# Old Chisels



## Mr Ed (21 Sep 2008)

Years ago when clearing out my late father-in-laws tool chest amongst other things I kept 4 chisels, thinking one day I might do something with them. In an idle moment yesterday I derusted them to see what they were and am now considering what, if anything, to do with them.







They are (from top)

1. Footprint 1 1/2" bevel edge chisel
2. 1 1/4" Gouge marked James Howarth Sheffield
3. 5/8" socket chisel marked Sorby Sheffield
4. 3/4" gouge marked J B Addison (?) Sheffield

Are they worth doing anything with and if so what, bearing in mind I am not a turner so making new handles would be tricky. I did read an interesting post on rehandling tang chisels on Woodnet recently, but not sure if worth the effort. Do they have any value? I should also say that I have plenty of 'operational' chisels so this is for curiosity value only.

Cheers, Ed


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## shim20 (21 Sep 2008)

keep them, the steel is better than all the new steel thats around today


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## Grinding One (22 Sep 2008)

If you can not make handles yourself have it done those are some nice chisels.
Yes they are worth having redone.


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## custard (22 Sep 2008)

If the backs are flat they could be excellent tools, but that's a big "if". 

Years' of sharpening with hollowed stones may have produced chisels with upturned corners, this makes the chisels unsuitable for very fine cuts (but still okay for general use). And flattening the back of a hardened chisel can sometimes involve more work than flattening a plane's sole!


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## George_N (22 Sep 2008)

This post by our old chum Alf shows how to make a non-turned chisel handle with little more than a drill and a block plane. I've made a couple of handles by this method and it really is very easy. The hardest part, for me anyway, is to get the hole for the tang perfectly aligned.


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## Scott (22 Sep 2008)

Like Shim says, lovely steel! Be a shame not to get them back in working order.

I just cleaned up and re-handled a Howarth 1/2" bench chisel myself last week and it's a nice tool.

Think the last one might just be JB Addis (?). If so absolutely top quality carving tools


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## Mr Ed (22 Sep 2008)

George - I was mulling over something like this but not sure if it would look amateurish. I think Alf has ably demonstrated that need not be the case - maybe I'll give it a try.

Cheers, Ed


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## bugbear (23 Sep 2008)

EdSutton":3akvd3u6 said:


> George - I was mulling over something like this but not sure if it would look amateurish.



I'm a keen subscriber to the campaign to reclaim the word "amateur".

Work done for love of the work is nothing to be ashamed of, and doing work for money is no guarantee of skill.

BugBear


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## Evergreen (23 Sep 2008)

As a reformed chiselaholic, I know only too well the appeal of old chisels and gouges. But I also know they can be variable – was the old timer having a bad day when he hand forged your specimen a hundred years ago in Sheffield? The only way to know is to sharpen it up and give it a go. I’ve known old chisels to be as soft as soap.

The other important factor is size. Invariably, it’s the odd sizes that survive in best condition. The most useful sizes get thrashed or worn out completely. 

So your wide Footprint chisel (which is relatively recent) might not find much use whereas the socket Sorby could be in action every day of the week. And the gouges? Well, Howarth and Addis are highly respected names but I suspect most woodworkers regard gouges as one of those tools that we only keep “because they might come in handy”. I’ve got three old gouges (Wales, Ibbotson and Ward) but I can’t remember the last time I used one.

But you can keep old tools for no other reason than they give you pleasure. That’s what I do. If I need to use them, then that’s a bonus.


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## Mr Ed (23 Sep 2008)

Evergreen":3omzpio6 said:


> But you can keep old tools for no other reason than they give you pleasure. That’s what I do. If I need to use them, then that’s a bonus.



I agree, I have a few old things that fall into this category. In fact come to think of it I have a few new tools that also fall into this category...  

I think I'll have a crack at some non-turned handles and do some sharpening when the inclination takes me. I'll post back and let you know the outcome.

Cheers, Ed.


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## Harbo (24 Sep 2008)

Footprint have been around for a long time so it may not be that recent?

I have some I inherited from my Grandfather who died 60 years ago.

They are all top notch makers - keep them I say!

Ray Iles sells replacement handles inc. nice London Pattern ones in Box.

Rod


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## woodbloke (24 Sep 2008)

EdSutton":1318fibl said:


> bearing in mind I am not a turner so making new handles would be tricky.
> 
> Cheers, Ed



Ed - appreciated that you aren't a turner. but if you _can_ get onto a lathe somewhere the long departed Alf also showed how to make these:






which are very easy to do and is a good way to use up oddments of decent timber which you might find tricky to use elsewhere. Just a thought - Rob


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## Mr Ed (24 Sep 2008)

Well I do have a nice little metalworking lathe, which I bought from fellow forum member Slim;






Does anyone have any experience of turning wood on this type of lathe ? I was considering giving it a go. I have a 4 jaw chuck which would drive the blank round and thought I could use a normal hard centre at the other end...

As luck would have it I have to go to Manchester tommorrow and my journey home can be made to pass Craft Supplies at Bradwell who have huge stocks of turning blanks. What timber would anyone reccommend to get started with?

NB - I looked at Ray Iles replacement handles which were very nice but at £40 each I'm afraid he can keep them!

Cheers, Ed


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## Paul Chapman (24 Sep 2008)

Hi Ed,

I'd have a go if I were you. I'd never done any turning before and asked Chisel if he would show me how it's done. Two practice pieces then the real thing






If I could do it, anyone can (mind you, Chisel is a good teacher :wink: ).

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (24 Sep 2008)

Ed - the other thing to consider is that if you sold them you're only likely to get a couple of quid each. 

Cheers

Karl


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## Harbo (24 Sep 2008)

Ed are you sure about the price - £40 that probably includes the chisel.
I bought a couple of handles last year in Box for about £5 each?

I have recently bought a tiny Emco Unimat lathe which has a section on wood turning in the handbook. You will need a tool rest and of course a few wood turning gouges. It recommends a speed of 4000rpm which should be OK for spindle work. I have not tried it as I already have a much larger Myford ML8 lathe but it should be OK for that size of work?

Don't forget the dust etc though!

Rod


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## Mr Ed (24 Sep 2008)

Harbo

I read the Ray Iles site properly the second time round - the £40 is for a drawbore pin with a london pattern boxwood handle - confused me because it had the words "Boxwood London pattern octagon handles - £40.00" under a picture of the handles on their own;

http://www.oldtools.free-online.co.uk/misc.htm

That said, I can't actually see a price for handles on their own. I'll give him a ring.

Ed


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## Mr Ed (24 Sep 2008)

Does the Emco handbook say to use a 4 jaw chuck to hold the work?

I have one, but just at the moment can't see how I am going to get the 3 jaw chuck off the spindle of my lathe.

Ed


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## Harbo (24 Sep 2008)

Ed - the Emco wood turning kit comes with a drive centre and a tool rest with rest holder.
You might get away with just the 3 jaw chuck and your live centre?
Try it on a bit of scrap first.
You could try and make a face plate with a drive screw that could be held in the chuck?

Is it that your 3 jaw is too embedded to screw off the head spindle - they normally have a Tommy bar hole to assist?

Rod


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## bugbear (25 Sep 2008)

EdSutton":v9j78y2c said:


> Well I do have a nice little metalworking lathe, which I bought from fellow forum member Slim;



I'm pretty sure that woodturning on a metal working lathe is considered bad, due (IIRC) to woodshaving and dust acting as a moisture attractant and (hence rust) afterwards.

Not quite as deadly as mounting a grinding wheel and using a lathe as a grinder though.

BugBear


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## Scott (25 Sep 2008)

EdSutton":392o61b8 said:


> Does anyone have any experience of turning wood on this type of lathe ?



Yup, I have a small metalworking lathe that used to be my old man's. It's one of the rebadged Sieg things. Poor quality really but it's fine for handles and knobs. Not ideal obviously but good enough. Has continuous variable speed too, which is nice. I just use a piece of mild steel square bar in the tool post as a tool rest. It's not very long so it has to be moved to use the full length of the bed but that's no great hardship for a thing the size of a chisel handle.



Bugbear":392o61b8 said:


> I'm pretty sure that woodturning on a metal working lathe is considered bad, due (IIRC) to woodshaving and dust acting as a moisture attractant and (hence rust) afterwards.



It is really but a good hoover up afterwards and a wipe with an oily rag or some WD40 does the business. Mine is in a damp workshop and there's no rust on it.


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## Mr Ed (25 Sep 2008)

I'm sure BB is right about the sawdust being a moisture attracter, but I would have thought a thorough vac and a wipe over with an oily cloth afterwards ought to deal with it though.

I've now got a 2 prong drive centre that I can hold in the 3 jaw chuck which should do the job and solves the issue of getting the chuck off.

Whilst at craft supplies today I also got some cocobolo blanks for handles, but I think I'll start with something cheaper.

Watch this space...

Cheers, Ed


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## paulm (25 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":2dkpjcbc said:


> Hi Ed,
> 
> I'd have a go if I were you. I'd never done any turning before and asked Chisel if he would show me how it's done. Two practice pieces then the real thing
> 
> ...



You have a natural talent Paul.

Hope it hasn't fallen apart yet :shock: :wink: 

Cheers, Paul


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## Paul Chapman (25 Sep 2008)

chisel":1v6vkqho said:


> You have a natural talent Paul.
> 
> Hope it hasn't fallen apart yet :shock: :wink:



Is that what they call a back-handed compliment :? :? :lol: 

No, I use it regularly (and your one) 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## paulm (25 Sep 2008)

> Is that what they call a back-handed compliment :? :? :lol:
> 
> No, I use it regularly (and your one) 8)
> 
> ...



Whoops, on re-reading that it didn't come out quiet as intended  :lol: 

All the best, Paul


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## Mr Ed (27 Sep 2008)

Might sound like a daft question, but what basic chisel/s and or gouges should I get to make some chisel handles. I don't want to spend more than necessary to do this type of odd job - I'm not planning on geting into turning in a big way.

I converted an old firmer chisel into a round nosed scraper which worked OK, but seemed to cause tear out on the piece of cherry I used as a test. Took a bit of sanding to smooth it out - is this normal?

I know The Toolshop in Derby has Sorby woodturning stuff so I may make a visit later today. Any tips would be good.

First test piece here (please look away experienced turners!)






Cheers, Ed.


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## Mr Ed (27 Sep 2008)

Progress has been made;










New handle is cocobolo, the shape is basically copied from one of my Lie-Nielsens. For a first attempt at turning, with frankly improvised equipment, I'm really quite pleased with the end result. Its a lovely wood to work with as it sustains crisp edges to the details.

More handles will follow (eventually - this is not a quick process!)

Cheers, Ed.


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## Paul Chapman (27 Sep 2008)

Excellent, Ed 8) 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mr Ed (27 Sep 2008)

Paul

I think I might rip off your bit-holder handle idea in the near future as I like the look of it. Shape-wise its quite similar to the handle I've just done so I think I can manage it. You start getting all sorts of ideas once you realise you can make round stuff!

Cheers, Ed


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## Paul Chapman (27 Sep 2008)

It's very comfortable to use, Ed. The bit holder I used was a CK - the type they sell to fit cordless drills. I think we drilled the hole about 1.5mm less than the diameter of the shank of the bit holder. Just wallop it in after fitting the ferrule.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mr Ed (28 Sep 2008)

One screwdriver bit holder rolls off the production line;











The wood this time is Curupay, which I have never heard of before, out of the bargain bin at Craft Supplies (£1.50 for 1 1/2" sq, 2 ft long). It seems to be a mahogany like timber and turns nicely.

I made the brass ferrule myself from a piece of solid round bar. Making these kind of small metal parts is quick and easy when you have a metalworking lathe. The lathe seems to be working fine for this small scale woodturning so far.

Cheers, Ed.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Sep 2008)

Great stuff, Ed - looks nice =D> 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mr Ed (28 Sep 2008)

Thanks Paul,

This time I copied the handle of my Lie-Nielsen chipbreaker screwdriver, although comparing the pictures it looks almost identical to yours.

I can see few of these being made as Christmas presents this year.

Cheers, Ed.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Sep 2008)

Yes, it's a bit like playing Spot the Fake :lol: 






Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeG. (28 Sep 2008)

Ed,

are you turning into a not-so-secret turner? I'm told it can be addictive.........next stop Turners Anonymous!!

Mike


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## Mr Ed (28 Sep 2008)

Well I'm not planning to get into turning proper, but for these type of small projects it certainly has its uses.

It is strangely addictive though.... :-k 

Cheers, Ed


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## Mr Ed (28 Sep 2008)

Paul

Your picture made me laugh, because its almost a photograph of what was going through my mind;

I could make another, but just tweak this and slightly change that and..... :lol: 

Cheers, Ed


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## DaveL (28 Sep 2008)

Mike Garnham":2qor27yl said:


> are you turning into a not-so-secret turner? I'm told it can be addictive.........next stop Turners Anonymous!!


Mike,

I think you have just seen one of *The Slopes TM* in action that you were asking about. There are many that can if your not careful lure you down and before you know it you are in a shed up to your knees in damp shavings from a piece of green timber that is spinning before you. :shock: 
Or you could be drawn down the shiny tools one and end up building more and more display cases for the ever increasing collection of toys. ](*,)  
While the Norm one will find you amassing more power tools than anyone could possibly use, this one does have a secondary side effect, everything you make will have brad holes in it and be finished in a nice shade of donkey brown. Oh and might find you are always wearing a plaid shirt when you return from the workshop. :norm: #-o


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## Paul Chapman (28 Sep 2008)

Ed,

It's a picture Chisel took on the day I made mine. Two of them were made by Chisel, one by me and the top one is one of Chisel's Lie Nielsen's.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeG. (29 Sep 2008)

Dave,

yes, I see the danger! Slopes can be slippery.....I guess if you fall down one slope that could be considered careless, but if you fall down 27, as I probably have, that could be considered over-enthusiasm (or OCD)!!!

Mike


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## woodbloke (1 Oct 2008)

EdSutton":3k7miyaf said:


> Well I'm not planning to get into turning proper, but for these type of small projects it certainly has its uses.
> 
> It is strangely addictive though.... :-k
> 
> Cheers, Ed



I tend to use my Coronet Elf for this small sort of stuff (knives and handles etc) and don't use the bowl turning thingie very much at all, but you're quite right, it is a quite satisfying way to spend the odd hour or twelve  - Rob


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## Mr Ed (5 Dec 2009)

Well its only taken me a bit over a year, but I finally got around to making handles for the gouges;







This was mainly prompted by a project required for the sister in laws birthday, that needed them. So far I have spent all the allocated time making chisel handles, wonder if she'd like those instead...

Ed


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## Paul Chapman (5 Dec 2009)

Very nice, Ed.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Ironballs (5 Dec 2009)

Nice looking handles Ed, just make sure you don't turn (no pun intended) into a full blown turnist


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## Mr Ed (5 Dec 2009)

Ironballs":1op407gy said:


> Nice looking handles Ed, just make sure you don't turn (no pun intended) into a full blown turnist



No plans to do that - these were turned on my metalworking lathe, purely through necessity not for pleasure. I turn the odd bit of wood when needed but I can't see the attraction of it as the main stay of a hobby - each to their own though


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