# SCROLL SAW A DYING ART ??



## mac1012 (16 Sep 2012)

Just thought i would ask this question in general, and due to the lack of activity on the scroll sawing section on here whilst other sections semm to be more popular.

There seems to be little activity on here recentley and it made me wonder why i will list my conclusions and see what others think.

Not many people put pictures of their work up. reason: afraid of critisism or afraid other people will pinch their ideas ?

I think with the increase of laser cutting and cheap imports they have had a big effect on people making and selling their scroll saw work compared to maybe 20-30 years ago.

Other scroll websites that are more popular ?

Im suprised there is not more interest in scroll sawing generateed on this website as compared to a lot of hobbies it is really quite cost effective and the ongoing cost are quite small once you have your machine (thats assuming you have a shed )or a spare room but i would have thought most people do have one these days and even a 6x4shed would be big enough for setting a scroll saw up and getting started.

Anyway just a few thoughts on the subject.


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## Chippygeoff (16 Sep 2012)

When compared to other hobbies I suppose scroll saw work does not come any where in the top ten. I must admit I have been disappointed with this site as it appears to be the only one within the UK and the only one with a scroll sawing section. When you look at the number of views a post has and then compare it to the number of replies I find it disappointing. I am on three other scroll saw forums in other countries and they are very active, lots of encouragement to each other and when someone post a picture of their work it gets lots of comments. What i really like about them is that beginners get masses of help from the members and I have seen new people join the forums and within weeks they are producing some really nice stuff but it was down to the members taking the time to explain things to them. I have tried several times to posy photos of my work on here and it will not work for me and many others have had the same problem. I have re-sized photos but it still wont work. I feel there are more scrollers in the Uk but feel they keep themselves to themselves. Some wont share patterns or give any advice as they feel it will be a threat to them selling what they make. Its a shame as the other forums are like big happy families only to willing to help each other. I don't submit much here anymore. I have become disillusioned with the way the forum has gone.


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## mac1012 (16 Sep 2012)

thanks for your honest replie geoff where are the other sites that you visit ? any chance you could send me the links would be nice to have a look whats out there :lol: 

mark


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## Mike M (16 Sep 2012)

Hi Mark,
Geoff should be able to help.
If you email me I could give you some also.
Most UK scrollers are on other forums.
FD Mike


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## Wildman (16 Sep 2012)

more posts from scroll saw users on this might just encourage people like myself who have such a saw but hardly use it through lack of inspiration. Why not start a scroll saw competition like the one we have in the wood turning section. I find trying new things helps me learn. don't we all?


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## Chippygeoff (16 Sep 2012)

Hi Mark. With regard to other forums there is the scrollsaw and woodworking crafts magazine which have a very active forum, then there is the srollsaw village and then there is the king of them all, scrollsaw workshop run by Steve Good. I recently started making tray puzzles, or inlay puzzles as some people call them. I had never attempted anything like this before and was not sure of the way forward. One of the members here whom I have known for a long time was a great help and through e-mails showed me the way forward. I then posted a thread on one of the above forums and the help and advice I received was tremendous. Had I posted the same question here I doubt if I would have had any replies going on past experiences. Its a shame it has gone down hill. When I first joined this forum there was quite a lot of interest on a variety of subjects relating to scroll saw work and I gained a lot of ideas for future projects. The other forums have loads of patterns that are free to use but as I understand it we cannot post patterns on here. I asked one of the members on one of the other forums where he got a pattern for a lovely piece he had made and he said he would send it to me. If I get stuck for a particular design there are guys there who just love designing things for other members. They have several sections dealing with most scroll saw topics such as intarsia, portrait work, a tool and blade section, a puzzle section, a beginners section and a general scroll saw section, its great.


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## Gill (16 Sep 2012)

I suspect there is a fundamental difference between the way that a scroll saw is used in Britain and the way it is used in most of the rest of the world. In countries such as America and Germany there is an established tradition of using a scroll saw as the solitary tool to create wooden artifacts, whereas countries such as Britain, France and Italy have more of a tradition of using a scroll saw as an adjunct to other tools to create a variety of artifacts, not necessarily wooden. As a result, it is possible for countries such as America to sustain message boards which are dedicated to the scroll saw alone. In other countries, there isn't the same demand. If you look at the numerous American forums you will find there is very little discussion of how to use the scroll saw in conjunction with other tools. I find this too myopic for my tastes because the scroll saw only demonstrates its true versatility when used in conjunction with other tools. That is why there isn't a dedicated scroll saw forum on the British woodwork forum that I mainly frequent; instead, there is a board for Creative And Artistic Woodwork. Admittedly, it's pretty inactive but that may be due to a lack of publicity.

Why have my own contributions to this discussion board declined? I don't think it's any secret that I have a poor opinion of the way this forum is managed and I suspect that may be true of a lot of very skilled scrollers who once posted here.


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## scroller frank (16 Sep 2012)

Hi Mac , Not been scrolling for some long time , fell out with woodwork in genral   
had other things to do , but i regualy come along to see what others are doing , wich , as you say is , "not a lot"
However the last few weeks i have been making a toy tipper truck ,and have "got back into gear ",
and have a few idears for new projects   
i would love to put some pics up , but i cant seem to get to grips with this windows blo*^y 7 (hammer)  
Must find a 10 year old to help me out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will try the photos again soon 
As for scrolling ,i think Gill has it about right , loads of people have saws but dont do just scrolling work for scrollings sake
and use there saw in conjunction with other types of work, 
the lorry i just made is a birthday present for a friends grand son


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## puzzler (17 Sep 2012)

As some one who uses the scroll saw for 90% of my woodwork mostly
puzzles. when i have posted puzzles Ive had some sarcastic remarks
which does not help any one I had decided not to post any more.
Something needs to be done to make adding pictures easier.
Frank I love your tipper truck keep them coming
Puzzler


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## hawkinob (17 Sep 2012)

Oh dear. Aren't we sorry for ourselves! 
True the method of posting pictures is not easy, at least for me, but I've done it. I'm obviously not looking in the right places but the only forums that I can find, dealing with scrollsawing, that are more "numerous" than this type of general woodwork forum, are the scrollsaw only ones.
How many scrollsaw clubs in UK anyway?
Bob H.


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## Grahamshed (17 Sep 2012)

I just know I am going to get shot down for this but the question has been asked so I will offer a couple of possible answers.... after setting the scene a little. 
I have just retired and decided I would have a workshop and, after doing up the house, maybe do some stuff for craft shows etc. I made a list of the tools I would probably want and that did/does contain a good scroll saw.... but it has worked its way to the bottom of the list.
Most - not all - of the scroll saw stuff I see on line and at craft fairs looks a bit...... dare I say..... amateurish. It appears to take little skill when compared with other areas of woodwork. ( But, as always, I could be wrong  )
I sort of get the impression that it falls in to two different camps. Camp 1 says 'I want to make so and so, what's the best tool to use' Camp 2 says 'I have a scroll saw, what can I make with it ?'

I am not saying there is anything wrong with that but......


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## Jacob (17 Sep 2012)

Is it the same as fret saw work? That's what I started with as a kid, along with Kielcraft model aeroplanes and balsa wood.
Fretwork has always had a role in woodwork, but doomed to be limited, unless someone comes up with some good ideas!
How could you incorporate fretwork in other items, rather than having it standing feebly alone?


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## Gill (17 Sep 2012)

Jacob":2ypp14lj said:


> How could you incorporate fretwork in other items, rather than having it standing feebly alone?



A quick trawl of the internet found these items:
















I've also seen fretwork used to embellish turned items such as pens.

I wish there were more scrollers on the forums undertaking this sort of applied fretwork but perhaps those with the imagination to do so are too busy doing woodwork  .


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## Jacob (17 Sep 2012)

Gill":p64yx7h3 said:


> ......
> I wish there were more scrollers on the forums undertaking this sort of applied fretwork but perhaps those with the imagination to do so are too busy doing woodwork  .


Maybe the scrollers should be doing more woodwork to provide a vehicle for their stuff?
I've got a little davenport with a fretwork arcade very similar design to that little table. I guess if I wanted to copy it I'd be looking at getting somebody to do it for me with CNC. I imagine scrolling or hand fretwork would take many hours.


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## Blister (17 Sep 2012)

Hi 

I can remember when UKworkshop did not have a Fret / scroll saw section , some members posted things they had made

in the general woodwork section , later it was decided by the Mod team to include a special scrolling section

To Begin with it had lots of activity ( as it was new ) then as in other sections things calmed down 

Please remember it was never a specialist scroll saw site like Mikes Workshop is 

I am more active in the turning section since 2006 ( sorry :lol: ) its no different there , sometimes lots going on other times very quiet

I actually started the Turning Challenge to try and stimulate that section and to a degree it has worked 

We have seen some very talented turners come and go over the years , some just move on , 

some just get on with turning and don't post every item they make and sadly some get offended and have massive falling out sessions and leave 

I think it would be a good idea for someone to run a challenge , It does take a couple of hours a month to run but if its something you enjoy doing that makes it more fun anyway 

I have also in the past suggested and had discussed in great depth *Critique * this is a VERY gray area , it can be good but can also be very damaging 

Anyone who loves what he does , has designed a item and produced said item, who is then brave enough to show his latest masterpiece on a open public forum deserves a medal 

Its happened to me in the past ( I am thick skinned ) even when I have made it clear that I am JUST SHOWING YOU WHAT I HAVE MADE no critique required ! and still get derogatory comments 

I own 4 fret / scroll saw and do use them occasionally but not as much as the lathe 

I'm rambling now so will shut up !

Come on , SOMEONE run a challenge ( This then gives you a reason to use your saw and design size details and techniques allowed ) ) , I can help if required for the first 2 or 3 months , PM me if any interest :mrgreen:


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## Chippygeoff (17 Sep 2012)

This will probably be my last comment on this thread and my comments are aimed at Graham the shed. I have been scroll sawing for many years. I also teach people from time to time. I have made thousands of items over the years, some very intricate and some quite easy. To say most things he sees at craft fairs seem amateurish is a bit below the belt. It does not matter what anyone decides to pursue within the many branches of working with wood, everyone has to start somewhere. To learn a new skill takes time, it cannot be learnt overnight and you cannot become competent from reading books, the only way to learn the skill of scroll sawing is to practice and more practice. I am a qualified carpenter/joiner and it took me years serving an apprenticeship to learn the basics and if most people are honest, still learning. Within the term of scroll saw work there are many branches as I have already mentioned, some people can spend months making a single masterpiece such as the Eiffel tower or a complicated train. Personally I make items that will sell at craft fairs so all the things I make have to be quite quick to make. I get many comments at every craft fair on how well my things are made and the fine finish I have achieved. I am a perfectionist and if an item has the slightest flaw it does not go on the tables. To say there is no skill in scroll saw work is just not on Graham, it is very highly skilled, it is a skill that comes with many years of practice. I spend up to 16 hours a day on my scroll saws keeping up with demand for the things I sell. As I said before, I cannot seem to post photo's of my work here but if anyone wants to see what I do they can go on facebook and look at, Wooden crafts from Wales and see what I make and sell at craft fairs. If I were not so active with craft fairs then I may just buy the plans to make something like the Eiffel tower.


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## mac1012 (17 Sep 2012)

I agree chippygeoff , not all scroll saw work has to be intricate fret work and to be honest to me looks a bit dated and dosent appeal to me to either spend the time making it or to buy it , having said that i do admire the persons skill to make it.and i would never critisise anyone elses work whether it appealed to me or not.

i make contempary crafts like you but maybe not as on a bigger scale just in my spare time, i have sold a lot of stuff on ebay and craft fares , and a good test is as to whether anybody is prepared to buy your items they are the only critiques that i pay any attention to which is my customers if they like it they will buy it, if they dont they wont.

my designs are simple but like you i have very high standards and dont sell stuff that dosent make the grade in its finish and quality , there is a difference between something looking amateurish and being simple and contempary yet at the same time appealing, sadly people seem to not realise what the difference is

the beauty of the scroll saw is it dosent have to be complicated or take hours and days to complete for it to be of a high standard of quality and finish , this makes it accessible to everyone , to me amateurish would be poorly put together pieces maybe with breakthrough on the edges and a poor finish which my work is definatley not .

if somebody wants to make an intricate design that takes hours and a lot of work to complete then they have the freedom to do so, likewise if someone comes up with a simple yet effective design that is appealing to the eye but very well finished then they have the freedom to do so. i think people need to respect that there is many different aspects to scroll sawing and have a healthy respect and admiration for each other.

i know im repeating myself here but scroll sawing is accesible to all abilities and a forum should be a place of encouragement whatever a persons ability.

i still maintain that there is a certain snobbery on here and i have said this in the past but it didnt go down to well with one or two people on here but i still stand by that the evidence is there to see

mark


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## Grahamshed (17 Sep 2012)

The question asked was about scroll work being a dying art. I expressed an opinion on why that may be. It was not intended to reflect on anyone in particular and I have in the past complimented scroll work seen on here but my feeling still stands for the majority of what I have seen at shows and such.


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## Gill (17 Sep 2012)

Jacob, it may come as a surprise, but I have applied fretwork to 'proper' woodwork. A couple of years ago there was a competition on another forum to see what could be made from a single length of construction grade 2x4 pine. I made a coffee table embellished with Tudor-style motifs and it looked halfway decent, even if I do say so myself. The embellishments I cut did take a long time, you're right, but simple cut-outs such as those in the pictures wouldn't take very long at all. I wonder if a scroller would win a race against a CNC machinist? Presumably, it would take the machinist a while to set up the CNC cutter whereas a scroller would just need to stick on the pattern, drill pilot holes and cut. What's more, a scroller could stack-cut several panels at once.

Insofar as scrolled work at craft fairs is concerned, my own experience is similar to that of Graham. Most stalls I have encountered stock cheap cut-outs that are almost inevitably defaced with scrawled pyrography and are little more than pacifiers to keep the nippers happy while Mum and Dad look at other stuff.

Oh, and if anyone is interested in a scroll saw challenge, I ran one here a few years ago using a simple Spitfire pattern and a chopper (motorbike) pattern. Do a search and I'm sure the thread will be found easily  .


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## Noel (17 Sep 2012)

If anybody has problems with less than polite comments use the report button or PM a mod.
Regarding posting images, we have one of the simplest forms of uploading from your HD or linking from a host. As mentioned, only restriction is size. Any problems just ask or post in the Comments etc board.


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## mac1012 (18 Sep 2012)

i have to disagree with the comments on craft fares i sell at craft fares and the things i sell are sold to adults not children , there is some cheap tack out there but there is also a lot of good quality stuff too


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## stevebuk (19 Sep 2012)

I dont think Graham is aiming his comments at anyone on here, its just an opinion on whats out there in the market., but that can also be said for turning and furniture too as we all know.. Using a scroll saw properly is quite a skill, anyone can cut something out using one but whether it has a quality about it is another matter..

steve


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## hawkinob (21 Sep 2012)

Hi,
Have a look at what "boyse39-Eugene" has to say about this topic, his posting dated 20 Sept.. See "The deed is done so what will I do with the!!" postings.
Gladdens the heart to read positive comments compared to the quite mournful ones on this posting. Seems that there are some rather intense people here.
Good luck.
Bob H.


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## mac1012 (21 Sep 2012)

not intense just honest people bob i think if you look at the post you mentioned you will find plenty of positive comments from me , the the thread started on here about scroll saws being a dying art to promote a healthy discussion but as happens on here some not very well thought out comments are put , and i always will fight my corner thats just the way i am (hammer) then there was some threads put that bear no relation to the orginal question asked by people who turn up later on and drop there sarcastic comments and then dissapear .....oh wait a minute that must be you !!! :mrgreen:


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## [email protected] (21 Sep 2012)

Jacob":1t30y8m6 said:


> Gill":1t30y8m6 said:
> 
> 
> > ......
> ...



bit of a strange thread this  I've just bought a new Hegner basic model and the reason i did so is that someone emailed me asking if I could make 3 small fretted panels for a clock. So I quoted the job, thye accepted and the price they paid, paid for my saw. I was amazed that someone 160 miles from me couldnt find someone to make them some fettted panels - I'm guesing at any price. I have limited experience in fretwork but solid expereince is aspects of woodworking so could do these panels no problem. My conclusion = probably lots of people out there that "can do" but no one knows about them. If you put yourself around, you might feel an increased sense of self worth as you have a skill that people need....


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## hawkinob (22 Sep 2012)

Mac1012,
Oh dear, someone's sensitive!
But thank you, you've proved my point.
I rest my case!
Bob H.


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## mac1012 (22 Sep 2012)

Not sure what point your trying to prove bob but like your previous post on this thread nothing to do with the subject matter.

Just dont like random sarcastic posts thats all but good luck with them

Mark


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