# Record Imp Vice



## TheDudester

I have a vice called the "Record Imp No 80" and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. It is small, red in colour and designed to be clamped to a surface.

I have done a Google search but I think record and vice/vise have other meanings!

Thanks

D


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## woodbloke

Dude - Record (amongst others) made a these clamp on vices and they are quite handy for small, light weight metalwork or holding jobs in the 'shop, worth keeping hold of in my view - Rob


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## TheDudester

woodbloke":1yg1ar4d said:


> Dude - Record (amongst others) made a these clamp on vices and they are quite handy for small, light weight metalwork or holding jobs in the 'shop, worth keeping hold of in my view - Rob



I needed a vice last night and remembered I had that one. Never noticed the make or rmodel number before :? 

D


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## Paul Chapman

The Record Imp #80 vice is shown in my 1959 edition of 'Planecraft'. Not sure when they stopped making it.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## TheDudester

Paul Chapman":2yhlph3y said:


> The Record Imp #80 vice is shown in my 1959 edition of 'Planecraft'. Not sure when they stopped making it.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Thanks for letting my know that Paul.

Much appreciated.

D


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## Paul Chapman

Here's what it says about it 

"The #80 "Imp" Vice is really a minature #74 vice, having 2 1/4" jaws and opening 2 1/2", and in no way must it be confused with either toys or cheap and unsatisfactory vices. It is sturdily and compactly made; the screw is accurately made with machine cut square thread, and there is a parallel grip which is free from any suggestion of looseness. The steel jaws are hardened and of high quality; there is a hardened anvil as in the #74 vice, but of smaller dimensions of course. The slide is of steel. Small tubes and rods can be gripped in the specially designed jaws, and can be bent in the tube bender. It is fastened to the bench with an exceptionally well designed and well-made clamp which is incorporated, which has a grip that is almost unbelievable until it is experienced. The vice weighs 4 1/4 lbs."

Sounds quite good  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Smudger

My father had one - no idea where it is now. Certainly advertised into the 50s, but Record often had things in catalogues (and Planecraft is really a glorified catalogue) after they had ceased production.

Listed as a Table Vice, it cost 10/- in 1938.

I use a No 2, which is a good little vice. I did look for Imps on eBay, but they tended to be broken.


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## TheDudester

Here is a picture of the vice in question.







How would I get rid of the rust?

Regards

D


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## Paul Chapman

I would just go over the rusty bits with a wire brush and possibly a green scourer and oil, then just oil the moving parts and use it. Looks to be in very good condition. Those old metalworking vices were built very well. My metalworking vice is a Woden that belonged to my Grandfather - still works like new and will probably out-live me  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Smudger

Maybe a fibre polishing wheel in a Dremel?

Mind you, most bench vices have a grip that is unbelievable until experienced!


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## Evergreen

Do I remember that the earlier Record metal working vices were all red? Or is that a sign of my age related mental deterioration?

By the '70s, I'm pretty sure they were the normal Record blue because I bought a small portable Record metal working vice about then, called a V70, or something like that. I think.

Regards.


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## Paul Chapman

Evergreen":23rhvtwa said:


> Do I remember that the earlier Record metal working vices were all red? Or is that a sign of my age related mental deterioration?



I've never quite understood why some Record tools were red and others blue. At one time it was to differentiate between cast iron (blue) and "unbreakable" malleable iron (red) spokeshaves. However, other tools were also sometimes painted red. All a bit confusing really - best not to worry about it  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## CHJ

The Record 80 was readily available in the early 70's






as was the smaller Eclipse 180






Both were everyday work horses in repair and assembly workshops handling small components.

These two still continue to earn their keep on a regular basis.


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## TheDudester

CHJ":3idd24uu said:


> The Record 80 was readily available in the early 70's
> 
> ....
> 
> as was the smaller Eclipse 180
> 
> ....
> 
> Both were everyday work horses in repair and assembly workshops handling small components.
> 
> These two still continue to earn their keep on a regular basis.



I like the Eclipse 180 too.

Very nice.

D


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## bugbear

TheDudester":38ycimxv said:


> I have a vice called the "Record Imp No 80" and wondered if anyone knew anything about it. It is small, red in colour and designed to be clamped to a surface.
> 
> I have done a Google search but I think record and vice/vise have other meanings!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> D



It's about the best clamp on "table vise" ever made (*). In older catalogues they often list 3-4 variations, with German and USA imports, and paramo, woden, Record.

The Record "Imp" normally tops the price range by a factor of two.

BugBear

(*) Of course, this merely make it a big fish in a small pond)


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## bugbear

CHJ":12dulxr2 said:


> The Record 80 was readily available in the early 70's
> 
> 
> as was the smaller Eclipse 180
> 
> 
> Both were everyday work horses in repair and assembly workshops handling small components.
> 
> These two still continue to earn their keep on a regular basis.



I don't think the two are comparable. The Imp is a home, "handy man" vise (albeit a fairly posh one) , whereas the Eclipse is an instrument makers vise. Very different areas of application.

I've seen instrument vises sold (and used) for fly tyeing.

BugBear


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## Racers

Hi,

Half a Eclipse 180 on Ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ECLIPSE-INSTRUMEN ... 286.c0.m14
Just missing the bit that holds the work  

Pete


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## Smudger

I wonder what the 'various functions' are, given that significant loss?


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## Racers

Door stop, door stop, door stop.....


Pete


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## Smudger




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## CHJ

bugbear":16z3zg7f said:


> I don't think the two are comparable. The Imp is a home, "handy man" vise (albeit a fairly posh one) , whereas the Eclipse is an instrument makers vise. Very different areas of application.
> I've seen instrument vises sold (and used) for fly tyeing.
> BugBear



Not comparable maybe BB but I can assure you very complimentary to each other if you are working with the servicing of aircraft instrumentation or avionic cable assemblies, in many instances I have seen both in use the same time to support an intricate cable loom and associated fine terminations whilst juggling with needle point soldering irons.


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## bugbear

CHJ":37qmme5y said:


> Not comparable maybe BB but I can assure you very complimentary to each other if you are working with the servicing of aircraft instrumentation or avionic cable assemblies, in many instances I have seen both in use the same time to support an intricate cable loom and associated fine terminations whilst juggling with needle point soldering irons.



I can readily believe that; I have "some" vices, all of which get used for various things (all the way from Boley to Swindens).

My (weak) point was that an Imp and an Instrument vise do not form an "obvious" pairing.

BugBear


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## CHJ

bugbear":3uof6oub said:


> My (weak) point was that an Imp and an Instrument vise do not form an "obvious" pairing.



Sounds like _"collector syndrom"_ to me. :twisted: :lol:


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## bigwol

Guys

I wanted to thank the previous posters for their accurate descriptions of the Record Imp 80 vice.

I found this one on eBay last week, and was unsure whether to bid for it.

Your enthusiasm for it put my mind at rest, and I successfully won the vice in the auction.

Having received it today, I am in full agreement with you.

It is amazingly well built, and perfectly preserved - despite its apparent age - (30+ years??)

I think this one must have been bought and not used, because even the fibre soft jaws are immaculate and there is no sign of wear.

Thanks again.


Dave










[/img]


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## CHJ

[/img]


Welcome to the forum *Dave,* your pics got caught by the spam trap.


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## bugbear

CHJ":3rvnkxoh said:


> Welcome to the forum *Dave,* your pics got caught by the spam trap.



Waddya' mean, "welcome"?

He's a gloating, lucky SOAB!

They say condition is everything - in that case, that Imp is everything.

BugBear


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## DaveL

Yes, massive gloat there, they are a very useful bit of kit.


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## Woodmagnet

Welcome to the forum Dave, what kind of w/working
are you into?


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## bigwol

My main interest is jewellery tools, as I am a stonesetter, but I make my own benches and fixtures. The Record 80 is perfect for my use as a jewellers vice as it incorporates an anvil - I haven't seen a modern equivalent and was lucky to find one in 'as new condition'.

Cheers

Dave


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## Barold

Paul Chapman":1zcch14r said:


> Here's what it says about it
> 
> "The #80 "Imp" Vice is really a minature #74 vice, having 2 1/4" jaws and opening 2 1/2", and in no way must it be confused with either toys or cheap and unsatisfactory vices. It is sturdily and compactly made; the screw is accurately made with machine cut square thread, and there is a parallel grip which is free from any suggestion of looseness. The steel jaws are hardened and of high quality; there is a hardened anvil as in the #74 vice, but of smaller dimensions of course. The slide is of steel. Small tubes and rods can be gripped in the specially designed jaws, and can be bent in the tube bender. It is fastened to the bench with an exceptionally well designed and well-made clamp which is incorporated, which has a grip that is almost unbelievable until it is experienced. The vice weighs 4 1/4 lbs."
> 
> Sounds quite good
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



I recently aquired a second Record imp vice and this matched the description of the vice above. However my first record imp vice was slightly different. It was more maroon in colour, had a fine screw thread, the handles were slightly different and the anvil knob had a groove around the base. I think it was an earlier model but not sure when it was made. I have a full description and comparision at http://baroldstools.blogspot.com/2010/1 ... no-80.html (I couldn't figure out the adding of pictures to this site as I oversized the reply space with pictures I tried to download)


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## Mr Kofi

Hi, 
Could somebody specify please which is the maximum thickness of the work bench I can use with this Imp Nº 80 Vice ?
Thanks a lot,
D.


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## AndyT

I've measured mine. 2 1/8" or 54 mm.

Great little vice.


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## bugbear

AndyT":2028s2c2 said:


> I've measured mine. 2 1/8" or 54 mm.
> 
> GreatEST little vice.


FIFY.

BugBear


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## Mr Kofi

Thanks a lot, Andy !


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## memzey

I've got one of these:



It's a cracking little vice. The anvil behind the rear jaw is super useful for bashing small bits of metal into shape.


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## nabs

the Woden Titan certainly seems to have been inspired by the Record Imp.

I use my Imp frequently, and they really are very useful indeed. If you are in the UK then you can still get them for around 20-30 quid on eBay which is astonishingly good value. 

In case anyone is interested, here is some info that I dug up when I got mine a couple of years ago:

In 1928 C&J Hampton ltd, who manufactured Record tools until the 1970s (when they merged with Ridgeway to become Record Ridgeway), took out a patent for the tube bender incorporated in the vice (GB310723). 






The patent number is marked on the steel slide of the original models. It is likely that they stopped marking slide after the patent expired in 1948, although the drawing in Planecraft from 1954 still shows it (perhaps because they did not get round to changing the picture).





There appears to have been at least one other model revision, where the boss on the handle is changed from round to square - I suspect this is a later model just because similar changes were made to later versions of their bench vices (in the 1970s, post-merger?). Perusing ebay I noticed that the thread on the jaw screw thread is finer than the original version.

[url=https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/...3195.html]dating-this-record-vice-t93195.html[/url]

According to David Lynch, http://www.recordhandplanes.com/rare.html the vice was available up to 1982.


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## memzey

Useful info thanks! This may be a daft question but how exactly are you supposed to bend pipes with the "pipe bender"? Can't quite get my head around it.


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## nabs

I've not tried it, but the way it seems to work is you grip the tube between the small plate on the fixed jaw and the raised circular part on the moving jaws (there is a groove in both parts to accommodate the pipe). I think you then form the bend by pulling from underneath.

It looks like it could accommodate a pipe of about 1 cm in diameter, although in practice I think the jaws would get in the way if you were trying to put a bend in a long tube. When I get a hold of a suitable pipe I will give it a go!


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## Bod

nabs":fbsx6xe3 said:


> the Woden Titan certainly seems to have been inspired by the Record Imp.
> 
> I use my Imp frequently, and they really are very useful indeed. If you are in the UK then you can still get them for around 20-30 quid on eBay which is astonishingly good value.
> 
> In case anyone is interested, here is some info that I dug up when I got mine a couple of years ago:
> 
> In 1928 C&J Hampton ltd, who manufactured Record tools until the 1970s (when they merged with Ridgeway to become Record Ridgeway), took out a patent for the tube bender incorporated in the vice (GB310723).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The patent number is marked on the steel slide of the original models. It is likely that they stopped marking slide after the patent expired in 1948, although the drawing in Planecraft from 1954 still shows it (perhaps because they did not get round to changing the picture).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There appears to have been at least one other model revision, where the boss on the handle is changed from round to square - I suspect this is a later model just because similar changes were made to later versions of their bench vices (in the 1970s, post-merger?). Perusing ebay I noticed that the thread on the jaw screw thread is finer than the original version.
> 
> [url=https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/...3195.html]dating-this-record-vice-t93195.html[/url]
> 
> According to David Lynch, http://www.recordhandplanes.com/rare.html the vice was available up to 1982.



Nabs, do you still have the patent information for the patent drawing you show?
It's information regarding the Record 74/5 vices I'm looking for.
Thanks 
Bod


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## nabs

I attached the patent Bod - now I look closer the diagram on the patent does seem to match the Imp's big brother...


*edit - upload of pdfs does not work, here is a link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_6WZBFt_kvKOWtndUJldkE5ZWM


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## Bod

Thanks, I've managed to find something on the Espacenet site, using your GB310723 number.
How I got there, I'm not sure.
Yes the 74/5 vices are very much bigger brothers to the Imp.
It's the Valve holder holes that have me puzzled, now it seems they are for straightening bent valves, or bolts. Quite how escapes me, unless the bend is in the "right" place.

Bod


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## bugbear

BTW, I've seen a #74 in the flesh.

They're BIG.

BugBear


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## AndyT

Bod":251didph said:


> It's the Valve holder holes that have me puzzled, now it seems they are for straightening bent valves, or bolts. Quite how escapes me, unless the bend is in the "right" place.
> 
> Bod



I think the holes for straightening valve stems are quite simple - you would insert the stem or bolt, feel for where a kink prevents it going further in, then give it a knock with a hammer to take out the bend. It's just a convenient solid lump of metal with (presumably) holes which fitted the valves in use at the time.


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## Bod

The holes are less than 2 inches deep, on my 74. They are different diameters, for inlet/exhaust valves.
Wouldn't be a great deal of use when the stem is bent at the head end, better than nothing in skilled hands.
Maybe why they stopped making them. No skilled mechanics to use them.
Nice vise, gets around many of the design failings of the standard engineering vise. Has some of it's own though. (exposed screw, under jaws)

Bod


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## bugbear

In addition to the Record Imp and Woden Titan, I can add the Paramo A1 (or A-one)







Yeah, I was prowling eBay.

BugBear


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## nabs

oh no! they forgot the tube bender!


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## memzey

Interesting. The Paramo doesn't appear to have a pipe bender, unless my eyes are deceiving me?


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## bugbear

Look again, Dick Whittington!

BugBear


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## memzey

Nope. Unless it's on the other side of the vice I don't think it's there.


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## AndyT

Please sir! I can see the Paramo tube bender sir!


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## Bod

Yup it's there, in quite a sensible place too.

Bod


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## Racers

I can see it too Sir!!!!


Pete


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## nabs

me too! what a relief. 

although I am not a serious tube bender, I think it is fair to say it is in a better position on the paramo.


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## bugbear

nabs":h59u5f1c said:


> me too! what a relief.
> 
> although I am not a serious tube bender, I think it is fair to say it is in a better position on the paramo.



Agreed; more clearance for movement/access. Although it might put more loads
in a "bad" direction on the clamping arrangement. I think I'd want the vice
screwed to the bench before I used the pipe bender.

BugBear


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## JohnPW

memzey":1ro7y8kh said:


> I've got one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> It's a cracking little vice. The anvil behind the rear jaw is super useful for bashing small bits of metal into shape.



That's the same basic design as the Record v75 which is still available under the Irwin Record brand name.





The Imp is more like a mini version of the bigger Record mechanics vices.


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## memzey

Aah I think I get it. The pipe bender is designed to take the pipe horizontally as opposed to vertically right? Cute.


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## bugbear

memzey":t9vqundk said:


> Aah I think I get it. The pipe bender is designed to take the pipe horizontally as opposed to vertically right? Cute.


 =D> =D> =D> 
=D> =D> =D> 
=D> =D> =D> 

 

BugBear


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## nabs

adventures in tube bending

apologies, I have the day off from work and seem to have rather too much time on my hands.

The vertical tube bender arrangement does indeed mean the jaws interfere with the tube. However, it is possible to put a bend at the end of a tube if you so wish, as I have demonstrated below. 

I think the "slight" crunching is a result of the poor quality tube, rather than down to my tube bending technique or the Imp (both of which are excellent!)


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## AndyT

nabs":3klrdlr7 said:


> adventures in tube bending
> 
> apologies, I have the day off from work and seem to have rather too much time on my hands.



For all of us reading this, you have _exactly the right amount of time_ on your hands!

(I must get round to trying mine out... :wink: )


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## bugbear

I suspect it should be renamed a rod or bar bender; I don't see how it can do a good job on tubes; crumpling appears inevitable.

BugBear


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## ED65

Where practical fill the pipe with water and freeze it solid! Not quite so good, pack tightly with wet sand.


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## Marmaduke

I'm bringing this thread back because it's great and I enjoyed reading it to help choose my new vice. I saw someone earlier linked the Fabrex 424 which, although not as nice as the Imp 80, can be found for cheaper. I just took a punt on this on ebay. What do you think from the potato-quality photos? We shall see! £14.95 is a gamble I am comfortable with. I can't add the link as a new member the but the description reads "sold in used condition some wear marks to the chrome"

I did have a question for anyone who might know; If the jaws need refaced, is this a tricky job? I have access to a hobby mill however I have read about jaws needing to be un-hardened then re-hardened after the milling. Is that something you would recommend? 
You can see someone's lovely restoration of one here which I hope to copy to an extent: again I can't link but if you search "Fabrex 424" on youtube you'll see it. Proper gorgeous!


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## Bedrock

A plumber's pipe spring should stop the crushing.


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