# American white ash finish



## billydruce (6 Dec 2012)

Hello everyone. 
I'm making a kitchen and two staircases out of American white ash and even though i can make them i dont have a clue on the best way to finish them. Therefore I would like to know what's the best finish for the american white ash .

I have read about ash going yellow which I really don't want to happen, I quite like the colour of the American white ash fresh out of the planer if there's anyway way I can keep it similar to fresh out of the planer with a satin sheen now and and in two years time i would be very happy. ps if it also brings the grain out a little oven better.

Thanks in advance for your help


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## Sgian Dubh (7 Dec 2012)

billydruce":ha8cl1xb said:


> Hello everyone.
> I'm making a kitchen and two staircases out of American white ash and even though i can make them i dont have a clue on the best way to finish them. Therefore I would like to know what's the best finish for the american white ash .


There isn't a 'best' finish as such, but there may be one appropriate to the non-yellowing requirement you mention but, presumably, also durable in a situation likely to see lots of wear, ie, steam, heat, food spatters, fingers and finger nails at corners, edges, and so on.

So, with those requirements in mind a water based finish (usually sold as quick drying varnish in B&Q and the like) would probably suit pretty well. This assumes you have no spraying facilities and need to apply the finish with a brush or roller. Most water based varnishes have UV blockers in them and don't significantly change the colour of the wood when applied. This way you'd keep the original pale colour pretty well, and the UV blockers help prevent colour change through UV radiation. Another cause of colour change is oxidation and a film forming finish such as the one suggested helps prevent oxygen getting at the wood too quickly.

In the end though you'll never prevent colour change due to oxidation and UV light, but you can delay it. Slainte.


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## billydruce (8 Dec 2012)

Any idea on what's the best product, not worried about cost


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## Sgian Dubh (8 Dec 2012)

What facilities do you have for finishing, eg, spray booth, spray gun, etc, or are you restricted to hand application? Slainte.


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## billydruce (9 Dec 2012)

As things stand at the moment no spray gun / booth however can easily purchase a spray gun but the booth will be more tricky 
Thanks


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## Sgian Dubh (9 Dec 2012)

Given that you have neither a spray gun nor a spraying facility, and at least some of the work is likely to need finishing on site after installation, eg, the staircases I suspect your best bet would be one of the water based finishes from a decent paint supplier, decorating centre, or even somewhere like Wickes or B&Q's own brand. These can be applied with a brush or roller, and done well should look good and be effective. Slainte.


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## Newbie_Neil (11 Dec 2012)

Hi,

As Richards suggests, given your circumstances, a water based finish will be best.

I had the same issues as you regarding colouring and I am very pleased with the product that I used. I sampled a number of products, but eventually used Liberon Kitchen/Bathroom Varnish.

It brought out the grain and it looks as good now, 12 months on, as the day that I finished it.

Thanks,
Neil


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## yetloh (12 Dec 2012)

I hesitate to take issue with Sgian on this but I am sceptical about his statement that most WB finishes now contain effective UV blockers. If that were the case, surely manufacturers would make claims about this very valuable property, and I have not yet found a maker that does. Where I have found reference made to UV protection, it relates to protection of finishes intended for outdoor use against degradation of the finish itself rather than the prevention of the underlying wood from colour change. 

Some time ago I conducted a comparative test experiment with various finishes exposed to direct sunlight over several months (equivalent to some years in a typical domestic setting) on various woods found only one offered any significant protection against colour change compared with unfinished wood. Things may have moved on since then, but the absence of manufacturers' claims about this leads me to doubt it. Pretty much all woods will change colour under the influence of light and, for me, really effective protection against this is something of a holy grail. I live more in hope than extectation. When I say really effective I mean a finish which does not itself have significant adverse effect itself, which leads me to the exception in my test. This was a hard wax oil made by Osmo specifically marketed as offering protection against colour change for internal woodwork. The problem with it was that, whilst nominally clear , it was a muddy beige in the can and this itself added colour and, worse still, significantly obscured the grain and lustre making it unsuitable for furniture.

I am not suggesting that a WB finish is unsuitable for this application but, in my experience, they do have important visual properties which not everyone will like. In particular their lack of transparency in the can does translate into a dulling of "life" in the appearance of the wood. This has two aspects; they tend to have the effect of dulling lustre which must be related to their lack of clarity and they often also leave the wood appearing to lack warmth. The latter effect can be mitigated to some extent by applying a coat of shellac before applying the WB finish.

Another finish worth considering is a precatalysed melamine lacquer. Mylands make one which is available in smallish quantities. These are solvent based so pretty obnoxious compared with WB finishes and very fast drying so are best sprayed. They don't suffer from the visual disadvantages of WB finishes but I am afraid your ash will still turn yellow over time.

Oh yes, I completely agree that ththere is no such thing as the perfect finishfor this and pretty much any other application you might think of. In the end it is all about which particular set of compromises you can live with.

Jim


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Dec 2012)

My brother in law lives in N.Z. and is a ships joiner by trade, so has some knowledge. I asked some while back about wooden floor finishes, and he told me that nearly all floors and internal joinery now are finished with water based polyurethane, as it's so much easier to use, easier to clean up, much less odour and is generally better. In N.Z. if it's not u.v. resistant, they don't use it - their u.v. problems are far, far worse than ours.


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## yetloh (13 Dec 2012)

Yes, but what is meant by UV resistant? My guess would be protection from degradation of the finish which is an obvoius priority for boats. You are absolutely right about floors but WB finishes still have the disadvantages I referred to when it comes to furniture where different priorities will often apply.

Jim


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## Sgian Dubh (13 Dec 2012)

yetloh":2r0zj03l said:


> I hesitate to take issue with Sgian on this but I am sceptical about his statement that most WB finishes now contain effective UV blockers. Jim


I see no reason why you shouldn't disagree with my statements Jim, especially if you have relevant information, which you had.

It would have been more accurate on my part to say something along the lines that quite a few water based finishes state on the can (or elsewhere) that the product contains UV blockers.

Personally I'm not overly fond of water based finishes. I haven't really found one that (for me) compares favourably with other finishes such as pre-catalysed or post-catalysed laquers in terms of clarity, refractive qualities and warmth of appearance. I think all the water based stuff I've used over the years tends to be less than optimal in at least one characteristic out of a few that I'm not fond of which are: milkiness, coldness in appearance, a hint of a blue cast, and something of a plastickiness.

I tend to think water based varnishes, etc work best visually on pale timbers like ash or maple. I don't think I've ever seen a water based finish on dark woods such as walnut, wenge and oak, or woods stained and/or dyed dark that I really liked the look of. And there isn't a finish of any sort that will permanently prevent wood changing colour as UV light and oxidation go to work on the wood fibres. Slainte.


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## billydruce (14 Dec 2012)

God I'm still confused lol. Can someone please tell me a product which will make my kitchen and stairs look nice now and in two years time  
Thanks everyone for your help


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## Sgian Dubh (14 Dec 2012)

I think you'll find the brands I mentioned earlier will do a very good job, eg, the brush or roller applied brands from Wickes, Homebase, B&Q brands, or you could use one of the name brands such as Dulux Trade Quick Drying Varnish. They all work, and the most common cause of poor appearance in both the short and long term is poor application. Not following the manufacturer's application guidelines is one way of getting less than optimal results: some people, for instance, try to put on coats that are too heavy so that they can get away with perhaps two coats instead of three, but this is seldom satisfactory. Slainte.


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## yetloh (14 Dec 2012)

Sgian Dubh":1i7fu7oo said:


> I think you'll find the brands I mentioned earlier will do a very good job, eg, the brush or roller applied brands from Wickes, Homebase, B&Q brands, or you could use one of the name brands such as Dulux Trade Quick Drying Varnish. They all work, and the most common cause of poor appearance in both the short and long term is poor application. Not following the manufacturer's application guidelines is one way of getting less than optimal results: some people, for instance, try to put on coats that are too heavy so that they can get away with perhaps two coats instead of three, but this is seldom satisfactory. Slainte.



Absolutely!

Jim


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## RogerS (14 Dec 2012)

I have a lot of ash and am still seeking that elusive ideal finish. I ran a trial using several different water based finishes and they all coloured the ash to a certain extent. The two products that surprisingly coloured the ash least was Polyvine (bought from Axminster) and Rustins Plastic Coating (don;t be put off by the name). My advice would be to try those on a sample of ash plus get a few that Richard suggested from Wickes etc and see what you prefer.


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## billydruce (15 Dec 2012)

Once again thank you to everyone who has posted, I really am grateful for all your help. It looks like a acrylic varnish is the way to go, the question is which. Im going to test a few but the problem is what it will look like in a few years time, can't really test that. With regards to uv protection I think a lot of the acrylic varnishes contain uv inhibitors which protect the finish but not the wood, to protect the wood they need uv blockers as well as inhibitors.
It looks like the polyvine exterior varnish may contain both i will ask them on Monday. However I'm not sure how 3/4 coats of that will look on the wood. I'm tempted to try 3/4 coats of their gloss lacquer and one coat of their exterior

Which polyvine product was it you used?and how long ago ?and what's it look like now ?

Ps just looked about k glass windows which I have and they block 99.5% of uv rays so prob worrying about nothing


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