# Help! Which scroll saw to buy!



## JimiJimi

Hi all

I am hoping someone can help me. I am poised to buy a scroll saw but I just can't decide which one to get. I want to spend about £100-£150 but each time I see one I like, I read reviews of it and am put off. I know I want variable speed, a foot for holding the wood down, the ability to take pinned and pinless blades, and possibly a safety guard. Does anyone have the Erbauer ERB110SSW? I looked at the Axminster AWSS-18, but read a couple of not so good reviews about vibration and poor quality of cut. The Axminster AWVFS looks ok, except that it only seems to have a cutting depth of 28mm, whereas most other machines have around 50mm. The Sealey SM43 looks a possible contender, as does the Scheppach Deco Flex. Too much information!

Thanks,

Jimi


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## Chippygeoff

To be honest with you there is not a lot to be had in your price range that could be called decent. Your best bet would be to look for a second hand AWFS 18. With most people variable speed and quick change blade clamps are highly desirable. You DO NOT need a hold down, none of us use them, the workpiece is quite manageable without one, you just need gentle pressure to hold it down and guide the workpiece. You don't need a safety guard either, none of us use them, the scroll saw is the safest wood working tool there is. A foot pedal is highly desirable, I could not work without one now. You don't want pinned blades either, they are a pain in the rear. with inside work you need the smallest entry hole to thread the blade though and pinned blades just wont do it, besides, with pinned blades you are very limited to what you can get. With pinless blades the world is your oyster and you can make anything. I would not consider the 2 saws you mentioned, just my opinion. I would save up some more and get a better machine, as the saying goes, you get what you pay for and many have given it up after buying a cheap saw as they don't perform very well and don't last long.


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## Wilder

Hi JimiJimi,

Sorry to be the voice of doom and gloom, but I was in your position about a year ago, and everyone told me not to get a cheap saw. However, I only had around £100-£150 to spend, and I wanted to get going on my new hobby, so I bought the AWVFS. DO NOT DO IT! It takes me longer to change the blades than it does to saw anything. I have tried all the tips and adaptations I could find on here, plus a few of my own, and blade changes are a nightmare. This machine was never really designed to take pinless blades and, in my opinion, it still doesn't. 

I am now taking the advice I should have taken in the first place, and looking for a Hegner - either second hand or by saving up for it. I really wish I hadn't wasted good money last year that I could have put towards something decent.

Believe me, I know how hard it is when funds are limited, but you will only get frustrated with a cheap saw. 

Of course, there may be someone on here who knows of a low price-range saw that is absolutely brilliant, in which case we will both be winners


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## Intarsia

Hello.... A cheap scrollsaw can be good if you really go for the right brand and model.... If have tried out several cheap scrollsaws over time which were Ryobi, Axminster and my current one Record power..... I suggest you skip everything with tightening nuts via an allen key and more than saws with more than one function, ie flexible arm for shaping.
Also with tension at the back of the saw i would suggest a knob to tighten the blade and not a lever as i just found it annoying and stressful.
As the Ryobi and my current Record Power have kinda wingnut bladeclamps and they last really well as i still am using my Ryobi ones and the newer ones i just keep for future use..... but offcourse when i have the money i will order an Excalibur 16 or 21"....but till than see below the link is where i got it from... a perfect hobby saw.
http://www.diytools.co.uk/record-po...=&source=pla&gclid=CNHHj5Dt57QCFSbMtAodbUsA9A


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## Waka

I also went through the dilemma of what to choose back at the beginning of December. I'd spent weeks reading up on various saws, and in the end asked the advice of the forum.
Everyone was pointing me towards the Hegner which was above the budget I really wanted to spend. In the end I bit the bullet and went for the entry level Hegner and I couldn't be more pleased, its everything I wanted and more.
My advice would be to save a little longer and go for the Hegner, they also come up on e-bay so you might not end up spending the full new price.

As they often say about tools, "the cheapest is often the most expensive"


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## Wilder

I went for a Record saw before I bought the Axminster, but had to send it back as it didn't work.


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## JimiJimi

Thanks for the advice everyone. It looks like I will have to delay starting up my new hobby while I save up some more money for a Hegner. Meanwhile, I'll keep an eye on ebay...

Jimi.


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## JWLeaper

My Record lasted 30 minutes before the speed controller didn't. Thank you Axminster for providing a saw with a speed controller that does.


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## loftyhermes

Look for a Delta with the quickset blade clamps.


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## cragster

hi all
first of all nice site here, the saw that you want Erbauer ERB110SSW is similar to the Scroll saw BT-SS 405 E what I have, its a low end saw, but it does a fantastic job, the only thing is the slow blade change, its true that the adapter for thr pinless blades are a nightmare and really dangerous if you dont have the safety thingy on, as per its one of the first things to go, but with a little mod its safer, the alken key which holds the blade clamp to the machine, umscrew this, I used what I had at hand.. a lollypop stick you need to cut it to the same lenth as the silver clamp, put this on the screw first and screw it back together, repeat for the bottom one, this stop the hook over pinless adapter flying off at your head when the blade snaps, as it hits the stick and is deflected back down, its a lot safer, but apart fron this its an ok saw, ive done many projects, including some portrait work, but if you can afford alittle more go for the axminster for aroud 300 quid,


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## Bryan Bennett

Hi Cragster Welcome to a great site,I only found the site last month and I really enjoy being a small part of a large membership.You will find plenty of advice just ask,and you will receive a very warm welcome here.

Bryan


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## heatherw

There are 4 Hegners for sale on Ebay this week, pickup only from York which shouldn't be too far from you. the best one is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hegner-Sa...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item35c4353b2c and as there are a couple more on sale at the same time the price shouldn't go too high. I don't think any of the York ones are variable speed though, but i can't see properly. Ex school machines tend to have been well maintained too.


just put Hegner in the Ebay search


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## JimiJimi

Hi Heather

Thanks for the suggestion. I have actually managed to pick up a Rexon DTS16A, with variable speed, for only £40. Although not the machine I ideally want, I am really pleased with it. Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions - I would still like a Hegner but it will have to wait until I win the lottery!

Jimi.


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## Gary Morris

Jimi, post some pictures of your work when you can please, I love seeing other peoples work.

Gary


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## JimiJimi

Hi Gary

Here are some of my attempts so far.







Here's another:






This was my first attempt at internal cuts. It went a bit wobbly but I think I got away with it.






On this one, I think I tried to run before I can walk!


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## cragster

hi all just thought I would share the smal modification I made to lower end scrollsaws, if you have this type of braket and the pinless adapter, and your taking off the safety guard. it makes it a lot safer


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## boysie39

Jimi, if you think you are running before walking with that kind of work ,there is no hope for poor auld me .   

I think you are right on the money with thoes pieces , well done.


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## Gary Morris

Jimi, lovely pieces, nice crisp lines and quite small figures, really nice.

Gary


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## Apache_sim

Some great advice... I am thinking about a scroll saw as a future purchase.
Thanks


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## Gabe95

I have been trying to find out what kind of scrollsaw to buy and have been looking at websites for about 3 years now. I keep getting put off by the advice which is generally "Don't mess about with the cheaper saws, go straight to the high end ones or you will be disappointed."
I am so angry with myself for listening to this rubbish. I learned early in life that there are a breed of men who sit around stroking their beards and measuring each others worth by the equipment that they can afford. This is why I avoid clubs like the photographic club or the golf club like the plague. They are full of people who blame the tools. By actually giving these opinions any merit I have been kept away from what I now discover is a really enjoyable hobby.
Realising that I was never going to be able to afford a Hegner or any of the other expensive saws, I cast around and decided on a Scheppach SD1600F. Contrary to the opinions of the beard-strokers it neither jumps around the bench like a demented rodeo bull, nor cuts jigsaw patterns all on it's own because it cannot hold a straight line. Blade changing is accomplished in a few seconds with practice. 
If you fancy taking this up as a hobby, and can afford the top end machines great. Go for it. If you just want to stick your toe in the water and try it out, you would be mad to spend that sort of money. There is a good reason that they are available second hand on Ebay. I can recommend the Scheppach (It comes with a flexi drive attachment and Dremel like tools, great for the smaller workshop). But just have a look and see what there is. If you get really good and think that you can make items to sell, then it will be time to trade up to a more expensive model. Until then, get a decent priced saw and buy some decent blades. They make the difference. I would suggest some skip tooth blades and some reverse tooth blades to start. Have fun with your new saw. I hope you didn't waste as much time as I did thanks to the silly advice in here!


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## martinka

Welcome to the forum, Gabe, I hope you enjoy your stay. You'll find the useful information far outweighs the useless. For what it's worth, although I have a beard and I own a Hegner, I am in complete agreement with you. I started out using a borrowed Draper, then bought a Jet, which I was perfectly happy with, then my mother died and left me a fifth of her belongings, so I bought a Hegner instead of a 60" TV. I already had the beard.


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## IHc1vtr+

You do'nt have to spend a fortune to get something decent, I only paid £40 for mine. Yes it's not a hegner ect BUT the blade is straight, cuts perfect straight lines and has variable speed.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131320487215? ... EBIDX%3AIT


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## scrimper

Gabe95":2mr62vbp said:


> I am so angry with myself for listening to this rubbish. I learned early in life that there are a breed of men who sit around stroking their beards and measuring each others worth by the equipment that they can afford. This is why I avoid clubs like the photographic club or the golf club like the plague. They are full of people who blame the tools. By actually giving these opinions any merit I have been kept away from what I now discover is a really enjoyable hobby.[/unquote]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you didn't waste as much time as I did thanks to the silly advice in here!
Click to expand...


TBH I think that is a bit unfair, You may have considered it a waste of time but the people who post here give out a lot of worthwhile and valuable advice to those who come here and ask, they don't get any benefit nor rewards for doing so, some here spend ages typing out helpful comments and thinking carefully about how to offer the best advice. Yes there are differing opinions but since I joined this forum I have not seen any advice given that is Rubbish and I think posters should be given thanks for offering their advice rather than being ridiculed because the advice did not suit you!

FWIW I don't have a beard nor do I play golf but I do have a Hegner so my advice is not worth reading! :evil:


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## jamiecrawford

I have a £100 Sealey, and a small moustache, which my wife isn't keen on. In fairness, there is quite a lot of the old 'you get what you pay for' knocking around and while it's patently true, it can also be slightly off putting if you don't know your pinless blades from your armpit. I might have put it slightly less confrontationally, though...


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## scrimper

jamiecrawford":c2m386qz said:


> I have a £100 Sealey, and a small moustache, which my wife isn't keen on. In fairness, there is quite a lot of the old 'you get what you pay for' knocking around and while it's patently true, it can also be slightly off putting if you don't know your pinless blades from your armpit. I might have put it slightly less confrontationally, though...



Hi Jamie, I found the post in question insulting to the decent people who give their time posting here trying to help others, the advice given may be appreciated by the person asking for advice or perhaps they don't want to hear it, however when someone joins a forum then posts their first comment by resurrecting a one year old thread to explain that they think people here give rubbish advice not worth listening too I wonder what the motive for doing so is.

I am a keen cyclist and my cycle cost £1000 when I bought it, my grandson has a cycle that cost £116 but the difference is my cycle is very light and does 1000's of miles whilst my Grandsons is very heavy and he uses it to go to school on, the same is true of Scroll saws if one wants to do the odd bit of fretwork them a cheap saw will probably be all one needs but if one spends a lot of time sawing and does very fine work with lots of internal cuts then a top quality saw can make the experience a lot more pleasurable, unless someone has tried a top of the range saw they won't understand the point of paying so much more but as one who has used both cheap and quality saws I can say there is a world of difference between them!

Most of the people who post here are experienced scrollers and know what they are talking about, when a new member asks what type of saw they should buy they do their best to give good advice, often the advice is go for a quality saw, they receive no benefit from saying this they are just trying to help another member. Most people who ask are pleased when people take the trouble to reply even if they don't wish to take that advice, fortunately few say the advice was rubbish and a waste of their time!


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## jamiecrawford

Sorry Scrimper, I actually meant the fella who made the initial post, mate. I should have made this clearer!


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## scrimper

jamiecrawford":2spt65a3 said:


> Sorry Scrimper, I actually meant the fella who made the initial post, mate. I should have made this clearer!



Jamie, sorry you misunderstood me I understood your comment and was trying to reinforce it, my fault I probably should not have quoted your post. You have nowt to be sorry for.


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## jamiecrawford

Doesn't take much to confuse me


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## Kierri

I was recently asked to answer a question about the first saw I bought, the SIP 16V, as a chap with a limited budget needed advice. I bought this saw because I had a very very limited budget and the £130ish I spent on it was the most I (couldn't) afford. But I had been researching scroll saws for at least 15 years (out if my 31) and desperately wanted/craved on, to make my existence a little less hard -(it distracts me from physical pain.) in my opinion , the SIP was the best cheap saw out of all of then. it may well have been, but I was still disappointed. Everyone here said to avoid cheap saws, but none had experience with the SIP, so I thought I'd try it and assumed a workman always blames his tools syndrome. Not true! 

The bearded Hegner fanboys didn't push their machines, no pressure to buy one & nor did they withdraw their support when I didn't buy one.  I could never afford one and I think they respect that and I respect them for being able to afford one. The majority opinion in answer to my enquiry, was to buy the AWFS18 - a Hegner clone. My father died and left me a portion of his house sale, not a lot by any means, but I bought the Ax and am incredibly impressed. It HAS improved my quality of cut and products. I'm still rubbish, the machine made me less rubbish! I've been playing around with blades and have discovered that they too make the world of difference. 

It was still expensive to buy, but now the inheritance is all gone and I'm under the breadline again, I do not regret buying it for a single moment. It enhances the quality of my life, more than any cuts or curves. I've seen, researched, read and used cheap saws and wouldn't risk it again. 

Poor people often buy clothing they can afford, I too do the same. They might buy a £4 pair of jeans from Asda. But they wear out quicker, you replace them over and over again - whereas a risky purchase of a £40 pair of jeans, may well last years. You do get what you pay for - but some don't have any other option. If you do, great. 

Sorry for being dramatic. 

Kierri xx


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## Claymore

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## scrimper

When I bought my Hegner 15 years ago the AWFS18 did not exist but had it done so I am pretty sure I would have bought one rather than the Hegner, never tried one but it looks like a carbon copy to me. The Hegners are well made and quality but IMHO they are overpriced and the amount they charge for spares is just horrendous for most parts.


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## Claymore

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## Claymore

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## Mechanism Man

I'm also in the £90 scroll saw club, have been scrolling for around eighteen years and build everything from orreries containing up to 60 hand cut gear wheels, and right down to tiny photo lockets with multiple inside cuts of only a mm or so wide. 
My weapon of choice is a Rexon VS4003A which I originally bought from Screwfix - although it's no longer available - but at the time it ticked all the boxes with variable speed and the ability to take plain end blades. 
It's a bit viby at certain speeds (so I don't run it at the viby points), I have to use Allen keys (who needs quick release anyway? ) to change the blades, and I replaced the plastic insert around the blade on the cutting table as the first job when I first bought it as the original was ill fitting and warped.
Other than that it's been faultless, it cuts straight and true, and cuts any shape, any aperture size that I want. 
Would a more expensive machine be better? Almost certainly. Would I notice the difference? Possibly. Would my quality of work be any better? Probably not. 
At the end of the day a scroll saw basically makes a very fine blade move up and down very fast between two points. If it can do that relatively vibration free and without thrashing about left and right then everything else is a bonus.
I guess that my point is that some of us would love more expensive equipment, but entry level adjustable speed machines can do the job just as well, but with a little less finesse... If you are willing to make allowances then £120 will get you into a good machine that will work beautifully - just don't expect anybody to have ever heard of it before! 
Happy scrolling people (even the hairy Hegner owners...).


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## jamiecrawford

I do like the Hegner colour, but I think I'd be best served by slapping a coat or two on my Sealey for now...


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## Kierri

I think for some people, it comes down to this: As long as it makes me happy and I'm satisfied with the results, then higher priced machines are unnecessary. Why pay a lot more when the cheap machine works to the standard you want it to. It's all about what enjoyment you get out of your machine. The experience of operation, often determines how much fun you have. I think some people with low budgets find it frustrating they can't own what others consider the best, so it's the feeling of "making do" that lingers with them and casts a shadow over their purchase. The feeling that your machine is rubbish even before you buy it. But there are perfectly adequate cheaper machines, that on the face of things deliver what you think you want. It was easy for me because I knew I would love scrolling and so wouldn't resent a high price purchase or consider it a risk. I was silly buying the SIP... As now I've spent £130 on something I probably will never use again. Blade changing was an utter nightmare, was supposed to take painless and pinned, but struggled massively with pinless, it weighed less than half the weight of my other machine and caused the house to vibrate and rock the foundations = unhappy neighbours. I don't have a shed, so I'm doing it in the spare bedroom. It knocked and clanked and if a blade broke, you had to unscrew half of the body to get to the lower clamps. It also started to jam and wouldn't let me unscrew the blade without great force. There is a difference between higher priced models... My new one does not vibrate as much, neighbours have not complained, the arm motion is beautiful to behold, it's not clunky chunky and as for quick release? Essential for saving time and ease of use. If you haven't tried other saws, it's hard to understand. 

But if it makes you happy, if it doesn't leave you wanting to quit, then it doesn't matter what you have. But when you become despondent and unhappy with the hobby, then a new saw will make a world of difference. 

The people on this forum have been amazing. Without them I wouldn't be scrolling today. Be they bearded or otherwise.  No one comes across as being in the Hegner Elite Club, there are no divisions. Just helpful people wanting to change the experience of others, for the better. The warmth of affection in this group is massive. I owe a lot to Claymore, Scrimper, Gill, BodgerBaz and a fella called Martin and every single other member - I can't remember all your names at this silly time of 1:10am.

If I found money again, would I buy a Hegner? Hmm... Perhaps not, I'm happy with my machine, unless I could buy the top spec Hegner. But otherwise, my Ax makes me a very happy person and allows me to be involved here - that's all that matters to me. 

xxKxx


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## ktempleman

Thanks for your comments here, K, and for responding to my questions asked on Amazon a few days ago.
As a result I've now joined this forum, which looks to be excellent.
Instead of the SIP saw I'm now looking at the Schepach Deco 405 vario. I have seen various prices for it and will probably now wait for any bargains in the Jan sales.
Thanks again and I look forward to be picking other brains more experienced than I (who has not yet used a scroll saw) as I fancy making wooden clocks.

Keith.


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## Kierri

Hi Keith,

So glad to see you here! The wealth of knowledge on this forum is unbelievable. You'll find lots of useful advice. I had a look at the saw you mentioned and on the face of it, it doesn't look too bad. A lot of people argue two speeds in sufficient. Mine is a variable speed, but I have yet to figure out how and when to use different speeds. Lol it says you get tool-less blade change and quick clamp dealie. You get a lot for your money with the Shep - if I had have found it when I bought the SIP, I'd probably have gotten it myself. 

Someone here will be able to tell you about their experience with the machine or similar.  If you find you're not getting replies through this thread and you want to ask questions about it, just click New Post/Topic and it will be put to the top of the list. 

Once again, a warm welcome to you Keith, May this be the start of many happy years of scrolling. This is the best place to be for sure. 

Kierri xx


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## woodyturner

Hi I have just started scrolling and have the Scheppach Deco 405 vario the only thing I dont like about it is the way you fit the pinless blades but I have ordered some replacement fitting from Axy I have been using 1/4" ply to practice with but today I made a unicorn out of 12mm corrian on it with no problems at all


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## ktempleman

Thanks Woody,
I'll bare that in mind.


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## ardenwoodcraft

Hello all,

I don't have a beard or a Hegner but I started scrolling on an Axi AWVFS scroll saw which is the same as your Record, Jet, SIP, anyclone Chinese type.

I have now moved on to an Excalibur EX21, and....and.....oh dear! I think I must be addicted as, if the wife allowed it, I think I would bring it into the house and it would have its' own place in front of the TV???!!!!!!!!!

I think she's softening a bit though as I've made her some Christmas decorations and she likes them so little by little etc!!


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## Claymore

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## woodyturner

I took delivery of two off the Axminster heads today fitted them and I must say they have somehow improved the performance of the machine they take both types of blades and it has made the fitting of pinless blades so much easer http://www.axminster.co.uk/blade-clamp- ... fs-fretsaw


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