# My New Router



## Fecn

Because I retired a bunch of old servers, I had some spare heavy-duty rackmount kits. They're basically just massive drawer slides designed to take up to a quarter of a tonne each. I also had some more conventional drawer slides too.






Last Thursday, I paid a visit to Richard Russel and bought myself some moustire resistant MDF - I've read on this forum somewhere or other that it has very little movement. I cut the sheets in half in their carpark because my van isn't quite long enough for a full 2440mm sheet.





The rackmount kits had some clips which locked the rails in place when fully extended - They had to go. I cut away their fixings with my dremmel.





Because I knew I'd be doing a lot of tablesaw work for this one, I made some space in the garage and set up the dust extractor and a couple of roller stands to support the sheet goods during cuts.





I made the smallest drawer first. Being the smallest one, it can be a touch more leightweight, so i used 25mm thickness. I clamped the sides as squarely as I could and drilled and screwed using 60x4 screws.





Next up, I mounted a set of drawer slides. The sheet of MDF that the thing's resting on was so that I could get things as absolutely perfectly square and parallel as possible. 





Have you worked out what it is yet.... No.. probably not... I did tell you in the title, but that won't make much sense yet... Keep reading 

The smallest drawer slides I had had a protruding bit on the end which stuck out about five millimeters.I used a forstner bit and cut recesses in the end plate to hide the offending bit.





I used a fence and an endstop on my drill-press to ensure that I would be able to get two recesses in perfect alignment on either side of the bearing-support block. Then I drilled through with a 3/8th hole to allow the shaft to pass through.





The next shot might give it away to a few of you...

I bought 4 x 1 metre lenghts of M8x1.5 threaded bar. It cost me £3.40. I also bought a whole load of bearings that were about 43p each. They keep the threaded bar mostly friction free.





I spent a few hours trying to work out a way of making some kind of support for holding an M8 nut and more importantly, allowing some reasonable degree of adjustment. I tried a few different things and none of them worked as well as I wanted, so in the end I gave up for the night.

The next morning, I realised the solution to the problem was not to use a nut at all, but to make a threaded plate instead of the nut. I put a bit of left-over gate post on the drill press and drilled a 6.5mm and two 5mm holes. The centre hole I tapped to M8.





I cut it out as a rectangular chunk with my dremmel. RIP Dremmel - This was the last job it could handle.. Sniff sniff.





I figured that the threaded plate would have to stand up to a lot of wear and tear and that it might survive for longer if it the steel was hardened... so I annealed it. Heated it to cherry-red and then dunked it in a bucket of water.





The parts for the larger drawers...





Fitting the drawer slides in the largest one... 





Sorry this one's a bit blurry - I used three drawer slides per unit. Two in one orientation and one in the other. This almost totally eliminates the jiggle that you normally get with a pair of drawer slides.





OK.. if you haven't worked out what I've built yet, here's my sketchup. It's not quite how things ended up, but at least it looks similar.





The three axes assembled with their stepper motors. 





View from the other end...





Y & Z axes squared up and bolted together.





I wasn't happy with the amount of jiggle on the Z axis, so I added a second pair of drawer slides.





I made some simple side supports to hold the Y/Z assembly in the right place, and then squared it all up with shims before screwing things into place. 





View from the back. with the gantry balanced on top.





Y & Z axes mostly extended. 





Gantry section bolted into place. Stretchers added to give a bit more rigidity.





Today, I got the chance to get started on the electricals. Two power supplies and three stepper motor drivers needed wiring in. I escaped to the shed for a few hours this afternoon and got it all done. 





Just before dinner time, I connected it up to a spare laptop and installed a copy of some CNC software called Mach3. - If you hadn't got it by now, that should be the final clue. I've built my own CNC router.





After dinner and baby-bed-time, I nipped back to the shed, and cobbled together the most simple and rudimentary tool holder I could think of. The shaft on the dremmel-replacement is exactly 20mm. I drilled a 20mm hole through a bit of 12mm mdf, and added a single piece of insulation tape to slightly reduce the diameter.. Then push-fitted the proxxon. 





I fitted a 3mm straight-cutting bit and clamped a bit of scrap to the bed.





First test.. .sawdust flies... around 21:30 tonight.





I spent another hour or so trying to work out how to use the CNC software to do something a bit more creative and had all sorts of annoying and strange error messages to try and solve. '0 radius turn at line 1016'. Eventually, I found a shape-cutting wizzard which worked and got it to cut out a little square hole at around 22:30.

I have to say, I'm very very pleased with the result. I designed it to be able to handle a full sized router, so it's all very solid. Thanks to the three slides per axis setup, there's very little movement or jiggle. I seem to have done a pretty good job of aligning my axes. I'm planning on adding a sacraficial surface to the X bed and I'll shim that to correct any misalignment there.

In total, including the sketchup drawings, the project's taken my spare time for the past 7 days. It can cope with workpieces up to 700x500x150mm in size, and should be accurate enough that I can use it for making printed circuit boards too. I'm not really finished yet - I still need to paint or varnish it, and to make some better support frames for the proxxon and my old B&Q router, and make some suitable clamps for it too.

Still, as of 22:30 tonight, it's officially up and working, and here's a 1-minute video clip (5MB) to prove it.


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## davy_owen_88

:shock: Now that is seriously impressive! Can I ask how much it cost to build? And how much you want to make me one :wink:


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## Fecn

I used about £50 worth of MDF, £3.40 of threaded bar, £3.00 of bearings. The stepper motors and drivers came from Motion Control Products Ltd which cost 220+VAT. http://www.motioncontrolproducts.co.uk/ ... ducts_id=8

The sliding rails... That's the tricky part. I've no idea what they would have cost, or where you could get hold of ones which are that substancially made. They came from three massive old HP servers which we bought back in 1999. I haven't seen rails/slides quite as substancial as those ones before or since. For the record, they're 696mm when closed, and extend out to 1496mm at full reach. Perhaps someone on the forum will know where to find some more.

If I could find a good cheap source for massive drawer slides, I might actually feel inclined to try selling these to the public. I'm very pleased with the performance so far, but maybe a few more hours of use will make me feel differently about that.


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## Gill

Intriguing and enticing  .

If I had the slightest aptitude for tightening bolts, I'd love to follow in your footsteps. As it is, I can only congratulate you on producing a wonderful tool and say how much I look forward to seeing how you utilize it in future.

More videos, please!

Gill


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## devonwoody

Best of good woodworking with your new tool but wouldn't your wrists and brain co-ordination do the same thing you have made?  

Only joking again of course.


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## Chris Knight

That is a great project - very impressive. I shall be interested to learn in due course if it has the desired accuracy, especially with a heavier router.


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## wizer

:shock: :shock: :tongue9: 

Truly in awe. The fact that you 'just knocked it up".....!!!

Well Done


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## Corset

Awesome, be interesting to see how it handles full size router.
owen


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## Nick W

When I try to watch the video all I get is the sound. What's wrong?


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## Anonymous

Hi Fecn

I am completely in awe of your ingenuity. Well done, it is absolutely brilliant.

I have a humble heavy-duty drill stand that takes a Trend T3 for overhead routing. :lol: 

Cheers,
Neil


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## Niki

I'm astonished and shocked :shock: :shock: :shock: :mrgreen: 

Maybe (very much maybe) I would cope with the mechanical section but for sure not with the electronics.

Very well done and...you kept me quite long time in the "fog" with your step-by-step pics and when I realized that actually you built a CNC, I just said "holly $h!#"...

My compliments =D> 

Now, put the real one there and show as what it can do so we can all.....be jealous :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Regards
niki


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## motownmartin

Fantastic engineering, I have great admiration and respect for anyone that can build something like this.

=D> =D> =D>


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## brianhabby

This is absolutely amazing. Like others above, I am definitely interested to see it do some real work with a full size router, of which I am in no doubt it will succeed.

Congratulations on a job very very well done, I wouldn't even know where to start.

regards

Brian


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## herdsman

Fantastic stuff.

I have stepper motors, drivers and the Mach 3 software, I have dry linear bearings for supporting the different carriages. I have stumbled on the screw to move the carriages, this would usually be a ball screw to give accuracy and smoothness and I would be very interested to know what degree of accuracy and reliability you get over time from the M8 studding because it does not cost that much in comparison (ball screw thread only costs about £100 per metre)

Again, fantastic project, well done.


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## Fecn

Thanks - You're all saying such nice things - Nobody's yet pointed out that it's potentially lethal - There's no emergency stop button yet, and the X, Y & Z axes can all extert a trememendous amount of force. Before I bolted it all together, I went for a ride on the Z axis - It has no troble whatsoever lifiting my whole weight up/down.



Nick W":27tk34ah said:


> When I try to watch the video all I get is the sound. What's wrong?


The video is encoded using the xvid codec and that's not a standard part of windows - You need to find, download and install the xvid codec (it's free)... or... I made an 20MB mpeg2 verison of the same video which you might have more luck with.

I'm desperate to get back down the shed and play around with the machine some more, but Mrs Fecn's gone to France today (to buy me some beer she says) so I'm having to look after the little one all day. This morning I've been reading the Mach3 manual in between bottles, nappy changes and Bob the Builder. Madame's asleep right now... I wonder if her baby monitor has enough range to reach the shed 



Corset":27tk34ah said:


> Awesome, be interesting to see how it handles full size router.


I reckon it's certainly solid enough for the task... I just wonder if it'll be able to feed the work through fast enough to prevent burning - Max feed rate seems to be about 10mm/sec


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## sawdust maker

I am so impressed. I have used these drawer slides for other things other than drawers and found them very stable when used at 90 degrees to each other. Thinking about the problem you anticipate with the travel being too slow. At about 2' per minute you might be right (i hope not though). What is the travel for each step of the motor? If this is very small, could you try gearing up the motors?

One thing how are you intending to hold the piece wood you are working on? 

Like others I am looking forward to see what it can do.


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## ByronBlack

incredible! The inventiveness of that is staggering! Men in Sheds Rule!! Well done, you get my vote for Jig of the Year award!!


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## RobertMP

Most impressive!

I've used metalworking CNC machines and there are some things I don't see on yours. Limit swiches for one and how to you get a 'home' or start reference? Hope you don't get a software glitch that drives a table past its end travel. I suppose at 10mm/sec you would have time to kill the power 
Think I'd be the same after all that build up - see it work then add the safety stops.

Give it a couple of months and you'll be adding a fourth axis to rotate the router! Impressive stuff!


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## Fecn

I ditched the Mach3 software today and started using Mach2 instead - I don't know if it's just the trial verison, but Mach3 has been nothing but trouble for me. Mach2 has been far easier to get to grips with.

I couldn't get the 'write' wizzard working in Mach3, but in Mach2 it was a breeze and as such, here's a new 90 second video clip 

.. and here's how it looked once I hoovered off the sawdust.








herdsman":3g6xbxr3 said:


> I have stepper motors, drivers and the Mach 3 software, I have dry linear bearings for supporting the different carriages. I have stumbled on the screw to move the carriages, this would usually be a ball screw to give accuracy and smoothness and I would be very interested to know what degree of accuracy and reliability you get over time from the M8 studding because it does not cost that much in comparison (ball screw thread only costs about £100 per metre)



herdsman, Does that mean you just need to do a bit of assembly work to have a fully working CNC machine?


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## mrbingley

Fecn

"Bloody Brilliant"

Have you thought about visiting the local scrapyards for your threaded bar ?
Plenty of old (but useful to inventors) scrap machinery to browse.

Chris.


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## mailee

WOW!......JUST WOW! I am stumped for words, that is incredible! :shock: I would have no idea with the electrics but may be able to assemble the table part. Brilliant.


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## Fecn

mailee":31ohswyt said:


> I would have no idea with the electrics but may be able to assemble the table part



The electrics weren't too tricky at all - I'd rate it as about the same complexity as wiring up a fusebox.

I added a sacrificial surface to the X bed yesterday and shimmed it mostly flat using half-A4 sheets of paper. I set height of the Z axis so it just touched the table, and then went round and round in square-spirals, adding and removing sheets until the cut seemed the same depth across the whole surface.






Today, I've managed to make giant leaps forward with the software I'm using. I searched the web for 'free vector clipart' which is drawn using lines rather than pixels - There seemed to be plenty of it, so I clicked the first link I found and downloaded this chap...





I loaded the file into CorelDraw 11 (it was a WMF file), and scaled it to the size I wanted and then saved it as an AutoCAD .DXF file. Then I loaded the DXF file into Mach2-CNC and converted it into a .tap G-Code file (G-Code is a bunch of lines that tell the machine how to move), and finally, I clamped a bit of scrap 6mm Ply to the machine, fitted it with a very pointy carbide burr and let it whir away for about 20 mins. 






The cat is about 100mm high from toes to tail. I did the cut in 3 passes, the first at 0.25mm depth (because I'd never tried the carbide burr before), and then at 0.5mm and finally at 1mm because I was getting fed up with waiting. The detail on the toes for the front and back legs was a bit too fine and the top layer of ply fell away with the final cut. 

Although the result isn't anything too impressive, I'm rather pleased with my progress in the software.


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## Sawdust

Fecn":34cr5o6d said:


> Although the result isn't anything too impressive


You're kidding aren't you - it's bloody amazing.



Fecn":34cr5o6d said:


> I'm rather pleased with my progress in the software.


Understatement of the year

This whole project is just oustanding.

Well done that man!

Cheers
Mike


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## Fecn

An unexpected mini-project for this evening. Having seen the cat, a friend asked me if I could make a rubber stamp based on a celtic knot from his wedding invations.




I used the photoshop 'stamp' filter - It seems to be exactly designed for making rubber stamp patterns - Handy.




I clamped an old eraser to the table. Because this was bitmap rather than line art, the machine whirs away for a long time working it's way back and forth like a printer.




Two passes at 1mm each, and the job's done.







Gill":1rgdnlxf said:


> More videos, please!



Of course - Nearly forgot. Here's another little 50 second one (4MB)


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## motownmartin

I'm speechless


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## Anonymous

Fecn

That is superb =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## Woodmagnet




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## Lark

thats awesome bet that is alot of fun and could make some really good stuff


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## Gill

I can tell you've been scrolling lately, getting your fingers so close to the cutting edge while the machine's in operation :lol: .

Seriously, it's a very impressive machine and does you credit. I'm very envious of you, both because you've got one and you understand how it works. I reckon I'll have to wait for something like the CarveWright to become available in this country. Even then I'll have to mug my bank manager  .

Gill


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## gidon

I just love it! Well done - I would love to make something like that!
Cheers
Gidon


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## wizer

Fantastic work Fecn. Did you have a specific use in mind when making.. Or was it 'just because you can' ?


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## Fecn

Gill":308tesdx said:


> I can tell you've been scrolling lately, getting your fingers so close to the cutting edge while the machine's in operation :lol: .



The carbide burr I was using in that shot has about as much cutting action as a nail file. I wouldn't dream of doing that if I was using a real cutter. (The scrollsaw is the least scary power tool I have - it reminds me of a sewing machine)



WiZer":308tesdx said:


> Did you have a specific use in mind when making.. Or was it 'just because you can' ?



I was thinking.. universal mortice jig... hole drilling jig... Tapering jig... panel cutter... (I need to get the big router mounted for those jobs, but I'm not doing that until I've wired in an emergency stop button.) Partly it was 'because you can' or at least 'because you think you might be able to'.
If I get the chance today, I might try a grid of holes later so I've got somewhere to store my cutters.

I did spend a while watching youtube vids when I was plotting this project... The first one is my favorite.

Really cool CNC Router - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sflJel9ye7Q
Ice Carving - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32EmwwKUdZQ
Cutting Cogs - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IIns3qbibc

edit: Just found a new vid on youtube today of someone else's homebuilt CNC - I am not worthy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlGu51uqNgQ


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## wizer

yes very awesome stuff. But that doesn't discount what you've done there mate. I couldn't dream of ever doing something like that. It's clear to see how handy it will be in the workshop. Of course it takes some of the 'craft' out of woodworking. But for mundane repeatable tasks... you're onto a winner there.

Love it


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## Fecn

WiZeR":1bl2d256 said:


> Of course it takes some of the 'craft' out of woodworking. But for mundane repeatable tasks... you're onto a winner there.



Yep... but it also opens up whole new techniques and styles which aren't a normal part of woodworking - I was pondering last night how to make star-shaped, or S-curved mortice and tennons. There's no reason why they have to be rectangular. Instead of straight lines, I could use wavy lines when tapering legs. I can also do all sorts of decoration and carvings on the stock which I'd never have attempted before. I'm not planning on using this thing for mass-production, so I'm not goverened by the same time/budget constraints as commercial CNC operators. It's pretty rare to see furniture that combines traditional and CNC techniques, but that's something I can now try. 

For the mundane tasks, I will admit I very much liked the idea of clamping a table-leg to the bed and running the program for 'cut morices and make rebates and cut tapers'. Whenever I do that by hand, sooner or later I cut a mortice in the wrong place or taper the wrong edge.


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## Fecn

WiZeR":31e735wm said:


> But for mundane repeatable tasks... you're onto a winner there.



I can't argue with that. Just popped to the shed for my lunch hour(ish) and wrote my first very simple G-Code program. 

90-sec Video clip here (8MB)

Results here...





Oh.. and I added a plywood fence to the table and trimed flat/square using the machine itself whilst I was down there.


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## herdsman

Hi Fecn,

I have tried the mach 3 software (not to produce anything yet) and have found it easier to make a drawing using QuicCAD and then importing it into the Mach 3, Mach 3 then automatically generates the G code for you.

A very interesting project, perhaps a cnc category is required on this forumn?


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## Chris Knight

Fecn,

I use things called "structured carbide" burrs for some carvnf purposes. You can get them where they sell Dremel stuff. They are pricey - about £15 but they cut very well indeed.


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## devonwoody

Saw your video.

If I post you over the timber please knock me up 4 secret dovetails at each end. Ten minute job?


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## Fecn

herdaman":1t1ac778 said:


> I have tried the mach 3 software (not to produce anything yet) and have found it easier to make a drawing using QuicCAD and then importing it into the Mach 3, Mach 3 then automatically generates the G code for you.
> 
> A very interesting project, perhaps a cnc category is required on this forumn?



I haven't come across QuickCAD so far. Because I get through so many computers, I tend to have copies of the more mainstream apps like CorelDraw bundled with one PC or another. More by luck than judgement I actually have legitimate copies of most mainstream PC software. I'm going to have to buy myself Mach2/3 though because the 1000 line g-code limit is becomming annoying fast.

I'd love to see a CNC category on the forums, and since I'm sure it would be low-traffic, I'd be happy to moderate it. 



waterhead37":1t1ac778 said:


> I use things called "structured carbide" burrs for some carvnf purposes. You can get them where they sell Dremel stuff. They are pricey - about £15 but they cut very well indeed.



Thanks for that wateread37 - I've been looking for places to buy appropriate tooling now that I've got the machine up and running. PureTC bits sure are expensive. Any recommendations on specifically which flavour bits to buy? I'm looking at something for bulk material removal (1/2" upcut spiral) and something for slicing-out (1/8th upcut spiral), and probably some downcut spirals for doing clean edges and finishing things off. The only proper carbide bits I have at the moment are designed for PCB work. It would be good to know which bits are the most useful so I can buy them first. Any good secondhand/resharpened places?



devonwoody":1t1ac778 said:


> If I post you over the timber please knock me up 4 secret dovetails at each end. Ten minute job?



I'd be more than happy to. I've got a friend bringing round limit and emergency-stop switches this evening, and I'm hoping that by around Sunday, I'll be competent enough with the software to use my current mini-router to make an MDF support/holder for the big router, at which point I'll consider myself qualified enough to put a big router on there. As soon as I've done that, I'll be able to use my regular router bits which include dovetails. PM me and I'll let you know where to post the wood.. unless you want some nice Ipé/Tabebuia in which case I've got it in the garage and will happily send some to you.


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## dedee

I love reading these type of threads. The technology is beyond me but the resourcefulness is inspiring well done

Have you checked out http://www.cnczone.com/forums/ having just checked back on Ian Dalziel's thread ( https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 30&start=0 ) it is where he posted a lot of his stuff

Andy


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## Shultzy

Fecn, you have produced a really outstanding piece of work. what's really galling about your use of server rails is before I retired I must have thrown out dozen of server rails without any thought they could be so useful. BTW I chatted up my dentist for any drills he throws away, he gives me a packet every time I go.


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## TonyW

=D> =D> Truly outstanding piece of work. =D> =D>


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## Fecn

RobertMP":31lg2caq said:


> I've used metalworking CNC machines and there are some things I don't see on yours. Limit swiches for one and how to you get a 'home' or start reference?



I added limit switches to both ends of the X and Y axes, and a single one to stop the Z access from rising too high - I didn't see the point in adding one at the other end since the lower limit for the Z access will depend on what tooling is installed - I can easily add another microswitch later on.

If I get the chance this evening, I'll steal the NVR switch from my router table and add in a second relay to feed an emergency stop signal back to the controller so that it will know to stop the steppers when I hit the button to kill the power. 

They're are far from exciting, but since I took these snaps whilst I was doing the work, I'll post them anyway. 

For the X axis, I screwed the microswitches to the base, and bent their levers so that they'd get pushed by the threaded-plate block at either end of it's travel. 






The microswitch for the Z axis sticks out far enough that the mdf plate on the front hits it...





... and finally the limit switch which stops the Y axis from extending too far. I would have gone for the same setup that I used with the X axis, but I'd have had to dismantle things to install the switch.


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## Fecn

NVR and Emergency Stop Relay fitted! When I hit the red button, it kills power to the tool and sends a signal to the computer to immediately stop all the steppers.





Tomorrow I hope to be able to get the big router mounted. Then the real fun begins.


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## DavidE

Hi Fecn,

I've been meaning to post a reply saying how awesome this is since I saw it. I'm really impressed with your recycled slides. I look forward to seeing the output from a big router.

Have you considered making a second (or putting it on the same) e-stop to kill the power to the stepper motor drivers? The setup you have described doesn't protect you if the drivers decide to ignore their control signals (unlikely I know but if this was to PUWER it would have to physically drop all motion out).

I'll be interested if you try some isolation routing with it. One of my friends made a CNC for doing boards a while ago and we had a proper one at work. They were pretty good, however, I was never that impressed with them for fine detail (good for clunky stuff). You’re also prone to getting cat's whiskers of copper which are annoying.

Brilliant work - looking forward to more updates of it's output.
Cheers, David


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## Fecn

I'm in for a coffee break, so here's some new pics from this morning.

Once again, the old computer parts coming into play - The brackets here are a rackmount kit from a Dell ethernet switch. I thought I'd take a leaf out of Niki's book and use a bit of laminate flooring for the base.





The shortest screws I had were 5/8th, so I decided to grind off the ends where they protrouded.





The threaded bars allow me to ensure that the base is flat and allow a little torsion to be applied to add rigidity. Conveniently there's enough space around the router to get the spanner in for bit changes.





Rather than hijack the 'on the other side' thread on the General forum for my CNC project, I'm going to respond to some of the posts here.



WiZeR":30dmk0en said:


> Going into production with the FecnCNC is a great idea Fecn. One thing that attracts me to the CarveWright is the apparent ease of use. The software seems silly person proof. You would probably have to do some work on the software side to make is commercially available, or perhaps ship it with Mach2/3.





Gill":30dmk0en said:


> I'd definitely be interested in a FecnCNC machine, but the software would have to be _completely _silly person proof :lol: .



I certainly wouldn't want to get into the software side of things. Shipping with Mach2/3 sounds like the way forward, although that's far from an silly person-proof solution, it does have some simple functions such as the jpeg import for carving and the 'write' wizzard for doing text. I haven't had much luck carving on a large scale, but the rubber stamp turned out OK.



ByronBlack":30dmk0en said:


> I think any small affordable (sub £500) CNC machine or atleast a kit version would do really well. Even for doing things like signs and wood 'art' I can see it being quite a useful tool. If you could hook it up to some kind of scanner, you would have a great replicater for mouldings and carvings.



That'd be a very hard price to hit. For this project, we're looking at about £285 of electrical/electronics, £15 of metal bits, £50 of drawer slides and £58 of MDF. Because the whole machine is made from MDF, it struck me that it could be sold as an Ikea-style flatpack furniture item. Ultimately I reckon it could be produced as a kit for about £500, but at that price point, the kit would have to contain a reel of wire rather than nicely made-up cables. It may be more feasible to produce the MDF/slides/threads part as the kit and leave the user to buy and install their own motors and controllers. Leaving out the electrics would simplify things from an insurance/liability perspective too. I can see how the MDF bits of the kit could be CNC produced at a reasonable cost. With mass-production, maybe it'd be possible to hit kit price of around £150-200 for the non-electric bits, that doesn't leave much profit for the guy who has to saw up the panels and keep the CNC machine fed. I expect that with a redesign, the amounts and types of raw materials could be optimised for lower costs.



WiZeR":30dmk0en said:


> If you could make a CNC machine that could easily do everything a top of the range dovetail jig, then my view is it is worth double the dovetail jig.



Now you've made me realise something I missed. I should have installed an end-clamp on the leading edge of the X-Bed so that it's possible to clamp boards vertically in the same way that the leigh D4R does. Fortunately it's not too late for me to add that on. I'll need to cut a bit out of the base to allow the board to dangle down, but I was smart enough to ensure that the tool could overhang to make tool changes easier, and that should be good enough for cutting dovetails too.

.. and now.. I've finished my coffee and I'm going back to the shed.


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## Anonymous

Hi Fecn,

the only way I can see you would be able to produce this machine cheap is to get it made in china. As a result I'm sure the quality would drop considerably. Of course you could put together detailed plans and sell them. At least once the plans have been made the profit is fairly close to 100%.

If the price was right I'd be tempted to buy plans from you.

Cheers,

Dave


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## Jake

Great ingenuity, Fecn, I really admire stuff like this.


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## Fecn

Here's the one I reckon you've all been waiting for. Dovetails!

First dovetail 20mm from the edge of the board, second one at 50mm and the third at 80mm. For the third dovetail, i decided I wanted it to be 10mm wider than the other two, so I did another pass at 85mm and a final one at 90mm. Feedrate for the cuts of 300mm per minute.

Here's a 2-minute video clip (12MB) Safety guards have been removed for display purposes only (no.. really, they have.. I've got a sheet of polycarbonate clamped onto the side of the machine now)


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## devonwoody

Pleased to see the machine working well. :wink:


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## motownmartin

This thread is the bees knees, the only gripe i have is that I can't see the videos.
Can anybody suggest a player to upload that will play these videos.


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## devonwoody

motownmartin":3jl4c9lj said:


> This thread is the bees knees, the only gripe i have is that I can't see the videos.
> Can anybody suggest a player to upload that will play these videos.


Windows media player plays for me.


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## Slim

Martin, You will need this.


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## ByronBlack

fecn, do you think this would be able to batch cut a run of mortice and tenon joints?


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## motownmartin

Thanks John and Jim, thats it sorted..............................WoW


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## Karl

That looks incredible.

Get that man a beer - in exchange for a copy of his plans !!!!

Cheers

Karl


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## wizer

still loving this thread, amazing.

I think a kit would be the best way to go. putting a whole system into production could be costly. Only for a large company to nip in and churn out a rival product to undercut you.

If you need any beta testers  I might even have some of those drawer runners somewhere.


----------



## banjo

Fecn,
I am truly amazed by this thread, read through the lot from start to finish with total incredulity. I work in electronics and understand all of the hardware and software issues but its another thing to actually make such a machine. Hats off to you fella =D> Superb.

Kev


----------



## Fecn

ByronBlack":2xi15hs4 said:


> fecn, do you think this would be able to batch cut a run of mortice and tenon joints?



I'm absolutely sure it would... particularly because...

Partly because of WiZeR's comment about dovetail jigs, and partly because having cut the dovetail slots in the earlier video and wanting to do the pins next, I figured I needed to tweak the design a bit to allow pieces to be vertically clamped too, and that meant that I needed a bit more space to allow the cutter to pass all the way through the clamped workpiece. Before dinner I fitted a 1/2" straight cutter and wrote a few lines of G-Code to nibble away at the X-Bed in 5mm steps. I'll cut a similar gap out of the base, so the machine can be swivelled to overhang the workbench and the workpiece can be clamped in place.

I'm really rather pleased with the video quality my phone can produce, and I can get it into all sorts of places I'd never dream of putting my face. I tried my hand at some video editing here, and joined a couple of clips together and sped things up to 4x speed. Video Clip 6 - 90 secs - 11MB



karlley":2xi15hs4 said:


> Get that man a beer - in exchange for a copy of his plans !!!!



More than happy to swap beer for plans. You should be able to work it all out from this thread anyway. 



WiZeR":2xi15hs4 said:


> If you need any beta testers Wink I might even have some of those drawer runners somewhere.



If you don't, Isaac Lord sell them. I'd love for some other people to have a go at building their own machines so that we can swap ideas, tips and programs. I'd be more than happy to help out with any construction details that aren't clear from this thread... particularly if beer is involved


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## wizer

The reality is that I don't have the time let alone the brain power to take something like this on atm. When we are settled then possibly. Definitely interested, neigh, fascinated in the whole hobbyist CNC scene.

PS that last vid didnt work for me?


----------



## wizer

Also how larger scale have you considered? Would it be possible to cut components from an 8x4 sheet of MDF? Could you make it so that the system can be adapted for occasional 8x4 cutting but then downsized for 'regular' tasks.


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## Fecn

WiZeR":j9rokcqe said:


> PS that last vid didnt work for me?



Hrm.. I'll try re-encoding it and putting a new one up there. Because I'm using different software to make the clip now, I had to use slightly different output settings. I was hoping it would be OK.... Gimme 15 mins to sort a new one out. I'll post a new message when I reckon it's worth trying again.


----------



## Fecn

OK, there's a new one up there now. It's a bit bigger at 11MB instead - I've updated the last post to have the right size/link.


----------



## Fecn

WiZeR":15ag70d5 said:


> Also how larger scale have you considered? Would it be possible to cut components from an 8x4 sheet of MDF? Could you make it so that the system can be adapted for occasional 8x4 cutting but then downsized for 'regular' tasks.



I'd need a bigger shed! 

The biggest drawer slides I've found are 700mm long with 750mm of extension, so that rather limits the maximum travel of any axis for this machine. The threaded bar I'm using came in 1M lengths, and the machine's not exactly speedy as it it. You'd be able to make a cup of tea in the time it would take to make it to the other end of an 8ft board. Going above the current size I reckon you'd want to switch to a fixed-bed/moving gantry system using a girder for the gantry and sprocket+chain drives to get a reasonable speed for cutting large boards.... Basically, you'd start to look a lot like a conventional industrial CNC machine.

My machine in it's current configuration can travel X=745mm, Y=550mm, Z=150mm, which isn't great for cutting up whole sheets, or doing table tops.. but should be about the right size for things like drawer fronts/backs/sides and table/chair legs


----------



## wizer

ah well just an idea :wink:


----------



## Fecn

Not much progress on the CNC machine this weekend due to an inundation of friends and relatives. Before the arrived on Saturday I cut out a section from the base, and drilled a couple holes into the X-Bed. I epoxy'd a couple of bolts into the holes and hammered them into place - After the epoxy had a chance to set, I filled in the remaining space around the bolts with a mixture of wood glue and dust from the extractor. 






I'm now trying to work out how to cut the pins for half-blind dovetails. After my visitors all went to bed yesterday, I spent a while watching the Leigh videos and trying to work out exactly how their jig fits everything together, and the path the cutter follows, and what offsets are used where. About the only thing I'm sure of is that the radius of the curves on the Leigh fingers are the same as the radius of the end of the cutter. My poor primate brain can't deal with depth adjustment, so I think I might just use trial and error until i get it right. If anyone fancies removing a finger from their leigh jig, and scanning it in so I can get some decent measurements, I would be eternally (or at least momentarily) grateful.


----------



## Fecn

Not much of an update, but I managed to get lunchtime in the shed today, so I've finished off the Niki-style end-vice (complete with abrasive strips to hold things a bit better) now which means that next time I get some time in there, I can have a go at dovetail pins.


----------



## Chris Knight

Fecn,
I have uploaded a couple of scans to Flickr - you should be able to download the full size images by clicking on the pix, then clicking on "All Sizes" here 

The two images you'll find there are both sides of the fingers which are a bit different in the way the straight part of the working profile is made - you'll need to look closely.


----------



## Fecn

waterhead37":2xcs3bmv said:


> Fecn,
> I have uploaded a couple of scans to Flickr



That's brilliant - Thanks a bundle watherhead37.

Cheers,

Fecn


----------



## wizer

still fascinating fecn!


----------



## Fecn

I managed to snatch a few hours in the shed today. Hooray!

Over the past week, I've put some thought into cutting dovetails - I particularly liked Tony's Houndstooth dovetails featured on the ukworkshop home page at the moment.






but realised I'd wouldn't be able to cut the sharp angles using a router. I decided to see what I could come up with using a rounded shape instead. My first coreldraw attempt was a raindrop shape. 





With my selection of cutters, it isn't possible to have the top point on the raindrop taper so thin. The smallest diameter I have is 1.6mm but that has very limited depth of cut.. I needed something with a reasonable cutting depth, and the smallest I had was 3.2mm. 

I reworked my dovetails/raindrops into Egg shapes which could be cut with a 3.2mm diameter cutter, and used the contour tool to plot paths with compensation for the tool diameter.





The cutter is a 3.2mm shank, so I removed the large router and refitted the Proxxon using a few screws.





I needed to mess around with the software for quite a while to get things working the way I planned... The machine whirred away for a while.. 





Clearly I have a problem with my scaling.. The tops and bottoms of the eggs are clipped. Still, I'm rather pleased as I feel like I've made some real progress today.


----------



## Fecn

Turns out that the problem with the last set of pins was that I'd done my drawing assuming a 4.7mm cutter radius... 

I caught a couple more hours in the shed just now, and evrything went a lot more smoothly.. I feel more confident with the software.

I re-jigged my coreldraw for a 3.2mm cutter, and set the machine to cut the pins again. It took it about 20 mins from when I hit the 'start' button for the pins. I had a nice cup of coffee.





I also cut a set of tails, which were a bit quicker.. about 10 mins for the tails. I removed the excess bits from the pins using a sharp chisel, and cleaned up the tails using my thumbnail.. 





  Perfect Fit!   Not the slightest hint of a wiggle or a jiggle. I'm delighted.





Coming up next.. real wood... although it may be a few days before I get into the shed again


----------



## Anonymous

Fantastic!!!

For some reason, I didn't see this thread as it grew, but just read the lot and that is a lovely job - especialy that unique joint :shock:


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## wizer

Rain drops, love it!


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## Escudo

Very exciting and fascinating project. Such ingenuity. Well done Fecn. 8)


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## Gill

=P~ 

I'm following this thread with great interest.

Gill


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## NeilO

Wow.... very unique joint...

"now with real wood" contrasting I hope  

followed a few of the links you posted Fecn, and was suitably impressed by the guitar one, but I am in awe at your CNC router table been a "Garden shed knockup" you know what I mean, lots of stuff hanging about then :idea: "what can I make out of this lot" scenario...very very impressive.
the guitar one was definately engineered and cost a small fortune I should think...

Again, very very impressed by your CNC router table? gizmo.

keep it up, just waiting for the next posting


----------



## devonwoody

http://www.engravingsteel.com/

Anything of interest above fecn?


----------



## Fecn

Fecn":17o9vayx said:


> devonwoody":17o9vayx said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I post you over the timber please knock me up 4 secret dovetails at each end. Ten minute job?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd be more than happy to.
Click to expand...


DW & I exchanged a few PMs and agreed to make 9"x4"x3" boxes for each other - It seemed like a fun idea and a nice little project to persue to help me learn to use the machine and DW was looking for a project on his new tablesaw.

A couple of weeks ago, I prepared some lefotover bits of Ipé (from the gate and picnic table) to make the box.

Ripped...





Thicknessed...







NeilO":17o9vayx said:


> "now with real wood" contrasting I hope



Well.. it wasn't going to be contrasting.. but... I've got a bit of Cedar somewhere in the garage.

I spent nearly the whole day in the shed today  

Last night I'd been playing around with trying to make the box more organic looking - I gave it a test run on some MDF this morning, but decided I didn't like the look of it, so decided to go for something more conventional instead.





I did a few test cuts on mdf, and then clamped in a bit of the Ipé and let 'er rip - The machine took around 12 mins per end to do the tails at a feed rate of 300mm/min.




Here's the tails fresh off the machine. I cleaned them up later using a stanley knife blade.





It took me a few attempts to get the pins aligned correctly, but once the machine's set up right, it's easy to repeat for all the other copies. Here's some of the test cuts (there were many more)





Test fitting with a set of pins from the Cedar. - Seems OK





I know you're not supposed to dry-fit dovetails, but I couldn't resist seeing how it looked.





I've no idea what to do for the bottom of the box or the top - I really hadn't thought any further than this. Ideas on a postcard to me please 

I made some videos of the machine cutting the tails and the pins.. They're 13 mins and 17 mins respectively at the moment. After I've had my dinner, I'll shrink them a bit and post some links here.

I nearly forgot to say... the dovetail slots in the Ipé are a bit misformed in places where the bit has clearly been deflected from it's path. - Ipé is a very very hard wood, and I think it's about the limit of the machine's capability unless I stiffen up the tool holder a bit. Fortunately it's not anything that'll be noticed once it's been glued, sanded and finished.


----------



## devonwoody

Blimey Fecn, have I got to follow that :roll:


----------



## special bone

8-[ 
Words fail me. Building your own CNC router was impressive. Being able to carry your boyweight was astounding. But cutting teardrop shaped dovetails?!?!?!?!?!? That's just not fair.

Rich

P.S. I'm trying to handcut dovetails for a toolbox at evening classes. It's not going swimmingly .

P.P.S. I am in total awe of what you've achieved. [-o<


----------



## Fecn

I was in a rush to get the pics up before dinner in my last post. Thanks to everyone for their continued encouragement. This project's been a real crowd pleaser, and it's fantastic to receive all this praise. My head is starting to swell.

I have used my best video editing skills (you can tell I don't work in TV) and pieced together the following 20MB 7 minute video clip of cutting the tails and pins. I'm going to have to start using youtube soon if I keep knocking out these videos. I was trying to mix the normal router-noise soundtrack with the music, but lost the noise somewhere along the way - The music starts abruptly a few seconds in.

After I'd spent a couple of hours doing test cuts until I was confident with the positioning of the workpieces on the machine and the alignment with the tool, cutting the tails took just under 13 minutes per end, and doing the pins takes just under 17. Making the box itself took a total I used 2 hours of machine time. Whilst the machine was cutting one set of pins/tails, I was cleaning up the previous set using a stanley knife blade and 100grit sanding block.

Watching through the video illustrates two mistakes which I shall try not to make again.. 
1. High Speed Steel tooling (like that cheap little router bit) wears out very quickly when cutting Ipé - I ordered some carbide bits yesterday, but they won't be here for a couple of days. - I reckon the bluntning of the tool is partially responsible for the mis-shaping on the tails. You can see how much more blunt it's become by the time it's onto the pins - there's loads of smoke when it does a plunge cut.

2. You should rout edges (e.g. pins) in a counter-clockwise direction, but you should rout holes/pockets in a clockwise direction - I knew this all along, but haven't worked out how to tell the software yet - I reckon that's the other factor for the mis-shaping of the tails.. Those two.. and the push-fit tool holder.


----------



## Gill

This thread is fascinating - much better than watching Norm!

=D> 

Gill


----------



## Woodmagnet

Cor Blimey! :wink:


----------



## wizer

Right, That's it... Jim, where do I send my cheque? I'll take one


----------



## devonwoody

Quote from fecn above

I've no idea what to do for the bottom of the box or the top - I really hadn't thought any further than this. Ideas on a postcard to me please

Because your dovetails are not half blind type, I think the base just needs a ply bottom that sinks inside the carcass and stringers to hold it in place, I quite often let the stringers hand below carcass level and they form a secret support for the box to rest on. 

The lid could remain quite plain so it doesn't detract from the carcass joints which are very novel in their appearance.

Keep up the good work :wink:


----------



## dedee

Rather than use your machine to cut a straight grooves for a drawer bottom perhaps you could make it curved instead? I am sure you would have no problems getting the curves on opposite sides to be aligned?

Keep up the good work

Andy


----------



## Fecn

WiZeR":39h24dc4 said:


> Right, That's it... Jim, where do I send my cheque? I'll take one


Where to send it.. That's the easy part.. What to write on it is the tricky bit. - I like the idea of using the CNC machine to make a copy of itself (only better), but working out all the details in the software would undoubtedly take far longer than knocking up another one by hand using the table saw. I reckon I could make all but 3 bits (the bits for the base) on the machine and do a flat-pack version. 



devonwoody":39h24dc4 said:


> Because your dovetails are not half blind type, I think the base just needs a ply bottom that sinks inside the carcass and stringers to hold it in place, I quite often let the stringers hand below carcass level and they form a secret support for the box to rest on.
> 
> The lid could remain quite plain so it doesn't detract from the carcass joints which are very novel in their appearance.



The only ply I have is either 6mm or 18mm WBP which came from Jewsons - At either thickness, it's not pretty to look at. I could do with some nice high quality 3mm birch ply (or something similar) for the bottom. I've got some bits of Ipé and Cedar which are thicknessed down to 12mm currently.. I was thinking of taking them down to 6mm, and having a centre strip of Cedar with Ipé strips on either side.... I reckon that would look OK for the base... Only problem with Ipé is that it doesn't take glue well. - I try some experiments and see how it looks. 

My current thinking is 6mm Ipé for the top in two pieces. I could make a rebate in the top to allow the lid to sit flush, and then cut a lowered section into the rebate so that if you press the lid in the centre, the two leaves fold upwards at the outside..

Hopefully this ascii-art will illustrate what I mean. 



Code:


Closed - Lid rests in rebate.
 _____ _____
|---\__/----|

Push in middle - Middle pushes down into lowered section and lid opens up from outside.       
   \    /
|---\\//----|




dedee":39h24dc4 said:


> Rather than use your machine to cut a straight grooves for a drawer bottom perhaps you could make it curved instead? I am sure you would have no problems getting the curves on opposite sides to be aligned?



I think I see what you're getting at there and reckon that I can handle the software well enough now to manage it. That idea (if I've got your gist) could possibly work for the lid/top I'm thinking of, which needn't be square since the rebate doesn't have to be straight.


----------



## devonwoody

Lid looks very technical, reminds me of crab pots! only joking, looking forward to the day it arrives.


----------



## Lukey

Re the teardrop dovetails. They do look good.

BUT! Because they are so unusual, having the two different sizes makes it look completely random...

Do you think it may be an idea to keep all the sizes uniform (in future, obv.)? I think it would look neater, and the impact of that contrasting wood would work much better IMO.


----------



## Fecn

Lukey":135i8s01 said:


> BUT! Because they are so unusual, having the two different sizes makes it look completely random...
> 
> Do you think it may be an idea to keep all the sizes uniform (in future, obv.)? I think it would look neater, and the impact of that contrasting wood would work much better IMO.



Yep.. I see your point. I think that fewer, larger pins/tails might look better. It's hard to visualise how things are going to end up looking when you're designing it in B&W on a computer screen. I have another idea for a joint that I'd like to try, but I'll keep the details on that secret until I find out if it'll work or not.

In other news...

I won 40 second-hand 1/4" shank slot-drills & end mills from ebay for £32. For safety reasons I don't have an ebay account, so I got a friend to bid for me and just popped round to his place this morning to pick them up.







A coulple of the bits seem to be brand-new and still had the protective wax on them, so I reckon I got a good deal even of the rest are useless. A friend of mine tells me that end mills can't be used for plunge cuts, but I'm wondering if I can sharpen the tips so they can. I'm hoping that the screw threads won't get in the way with the collet in my router. 

Does anyone have any safety warnings for me before I try some of these in a router? - Maybe I should post that question to the general woodworking topic.


----------



## Fecn

Only managed to get a couple of hours in the shed today (so far).

First off, I attempted to work out why the tails I cut yesterday weren't up to scratch. I started off by cleaning up the cutter I'd been using and attempting to sharpen it again (don't know how successful the sharpening was).

Next, I moved onto improving the Proxxon the tool holder. There was a lot more wiggle than I like, so I came up with this solution using a spare lump of MDF and an old bag strap.





I cut another set of tails for a test, and this time they're much better. I did try to take some pics to show the change, but my mobile phone camera couldn't get things in focus properly today in spite of me taking 5 pics. I nearly broke out my good camera, but looking at the pic I posted to the thread on Friday, you can't really see that there was anything wrong in the first place. Anyway.. I was rather happy with the box on Friday, but I'm far happier with the results I'm getting now.


----------



## Lukey

What do you mean for safety reasons you dont have an ebay account - the danger of spending too much? :lol:


----------



## Fecn

Lukey":2fqxiwxx said:


> What do you mean for safety reasons you dont have an ebay account - the danger of spending too much? :lol:



Yep.. and on things that I find myself wanting, without any reason why - I drink beer and I browse the web... I have plastic and I think Mini Diggers are rather cool. No ebay account is a great safeguard. 

*On with the show...*
A freind of mine came to visit over the last couple of days, and we spent our time messing around with the CNC machine and software - We spent rather a lot of time wokring out the mysteries of cutting half-blind dovetails. Thanks again to waterhead37 for the scans of the jig. 





After one very late evening, we finally cracked it (we think), and I should now be able to cut dovetails at any depth and any tightness. The cutting path we feed to the machine tells it where to put the centre of the cutter, so we have to offset that path by the radius of the cutter to get the edges in the right place. For the pins the offset is equal to radius of the base of the cutter, but for the tails it depends on the cut depth, so we had to calculate it using trig. 

Here's the the exciting bit first... 
3 minute video clip (10MB) of cutting pins and tails on the machine.

And here's the science bit for anyone who wants extra credit. These are the pictures we drew to help us work it all out. 

We design the dovetail based on the width of the thick ends of the tails - Here we have a 20mm, 30mm, 20mm arrangement. 





We know our cutter has a 104 degree angle, so we can work the rest out with some very easy trig. 





I can see I'm going to have to plan some new projects.. but i must finish off dw's box first.


----------



## motownmartin

Excellent stuff fecn, it really is looking the bees knees, I know that you will place in some backing boards to prevent splintering, can I also suggest that when cutting the tails you first run a small cut or a scoreline on the ends of your boards, this will prevent the corners of the boards splitting.
This really is a fantastic bit of work and i'm looking forward to the finished box for John.


----------



## devonwoody

I'm getting excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(John)


----------



## herdsman

Top stuff Fecn, I did have reservations about the feed screws for moving the carriages but that does not seem to bee a problem. Are you still using the Mach 2 software?

Keep it coming, a very intersting project.


----------



## Chris Knight

Super work Fecn - look forward to seeing the results!


----------



## catface

hello, you bought a load of mills & were asking about plunge cutting :

It used to be the case that there were two similar looking products & these were called slot drills and end mills. 
Some can plunge cut and some cannot plunge cut. 

End mills are so called as their primary cutting is done on their ends. (They may also have two, three, four or more cutting flutes and be right handed or left handed ie. right handed cutter cuts when rotated anti clockwise & vice- versa).

Two flute end mills can be used for centre cutting(plunge cutting), since the tooth grind extends to the very centre of the bit (like on a conventional twist drill bit you use in your black and decker).

Most four flute end mills will also plunge cut, as the flutes are ground to the centre of the bit. However, some four flute bits will not plunge cut as they have a small space (hole) or flat circle at the centre of the tip. This is called "gashed". A gashed end mill will not start its own hole & must start its cut with the side of its body, ie. start it off the workpiece or drill a starter hole first to put it into. 

To summarise, plunge cutting depends on having a tooth which extends to the centre of the point of the cutter ; two flute mills are ususally ground to do this. Other eg 3, 4 flute mills, you have to look to see if its "gashed" & needs a starter hole or off-workpiece start. 

Hope I haven't bored you stiff ! regards, Catface.


----------



## Fecn

herdsman":3jvee3hh said:


> Top stuff Fecn, I did have reservations about the feed screws for moving the carriages but that does not seem to bee a problem. Are you still using the Mach 2 software?



The feed screws seem to work OK... I do worry about them getting gummed up with sawdust, but so far that hasn't been a problem. I was using Mach2 until last week, but I've since shelled out for copies of Mach3 and LazyCam because I wanted the tool diameter compensation and pocket cutting functions to work properly. I also downloaded trial versions of the Vectric Cut3D software, but haven't had the chance to try it out yet - The Vectric stuff looks quite nice.




catface":3jvee3hh said:


> Hope I haven't bored you stiff ! regards, Catface.



Not in the slightest - in fact.. I want you to go on speaking  

I seem to have got about 60% slot drills and 40% end mills which is a good mix. I imagine all these bits were designed for use at a the farily low spindle speeds found on milling machines around 2000RPM. The slowest my router can go is 8000RPM. I don't imagine the bits will mind the increased speed since they're all very small diameter.

Do bits like this have a maximum speed rating? 
I imagine the upcut spirals will have a tendency to try and lift the workpiece from the table - I reckon I need to improve my clamping a bit before I try them in anger.


----------



## catface

hello fecn,
Approximate spindle speed (rpm) is given by :

rpm = ( CS . 4) divided by cutter diameter in inches

where CS is cutting speed in feet per minute for any particular material (there are charts for this).

For example : cutting speed for hard wood and soft wood is 1097 feet per minute (the speed at which the periphery of the cutter moves past the work or vice versa). Say the cutter is 1/2 inch diameter . Using the above calculation we work out the RPM :

rpm = (1097 . 4) divided by 0.5 

rpm = 4388 divided by 0.5 = 8776 rpm

other materials have other cutting speeds.

hope this helps , regards Catface.

ps. the charts for cutting speeds for different materials dont usually differentiate between the types of cutter being used, ie. same calculation for drill bit, saw blade, 2 flute end mill or 4 flute end mill. Therefore you could use the speeds recommended for a router bit made of the same material (assumed High Speed Steel) as the cutter you want to use. Look up the recommended speed (rpm) for a high speed steel router bit of same diameter as the endmill you want to use, & try that for starters !


----------



## Fecn

Thanks for that catface 

I got to spend all day in the shed today, and thought I should finish off the box for dw - I rather like the dw box and decided that I should probably build a similar box for myself whilst I was doing the box-making process.

About a week ago, I got a Trend 1/4" shank 3.2mm carbide bit, and today I got to try it out - I changed the joint spacing in coreldraw and then let the machine do it's noisy dusty thing. I must get a quieter router on there - I'm half tempted to put the Triton on there. - The carbide bit was a huge improvement.






Test fitting... Straight off the machine, no cleanup.





Using the machine with a quick bit of manual programming, I routed a 6.35mm groove into which a bit of plywood can slot in, and cut some ply on the table saw. dw - your box has a base now.





I turned my attention to the lids next, and decided that they'd look best with a solid bit of wood. I like the look of the chunky lid for the new bigger box, but it's too thick for the little box.





I was planning on leaving the lid thick, but due to a series of minor cockups, I ended up using the machine to thickness it down to about 12mm, and then to cut a rebate around the edges so that the lid stays in place.





I stuck some glue on the pins and tails, and clamped things together - I reckon I've done enough for today. With any luck I'll get them both polished off tomorrow before Mrs Fecn returns.


----------



## special bone

Fecn":1lhp5mx4 said:


> ..... With any luck I'll get them both polished off tomorrow before Mrs Fecn returns.



First put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher (instead of on top of it), put a load of washing on, and run the hoover round. This is enough effort it look like your care, but not too much that it looks like you've bought something :roll: .

Rich


----------



## dedee

Fecn,
Great stuff.

I hope this is not the end of the thread as I have enjoyed watching the progress immensely (even if the technology is way over my head).

Andy


----------



## Chris Knight

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## devonwoody

Fecn, 

I am lost for words of appreciation that you accepted my offer of a swap of boxes being constructed by us. 

I totally acknowledge that you must have put in greater time and effort on the project.

I can assure you that your gift will have a very special position in our home and also we will have the memories of a very pleasant forum comradeship that has come about.


----------



## Fecn

special bone":3pt2upow said:


> First put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher (instead of on top of it), put a load of washing on, and run the hoover round. This is enough effort it look like your care, but not too much that it looks like you've bought something :roll: .



Thanks Rich - I would actually have forgotten about that lot without your reminder - I made it the first thing I did this morning before I headed for the shed.



dedee":3pt2upow said:


> I hope this is not the end of the thread as I have enjoyed watching the progress immensely (even if the technology is way over my head).


Mrs Fecn has asked me to make a kids desk+chair set for the little one, and for that, I need to build myself a new router table for the Triton - it may be a few weekends before I get back to the CNC machine.
I've a few things left to do on the CNC machine yet so this thread's not over yet.. Dust extraction is a top priority. I'd also like to add compressed air blast to clear chips from around the cutter.... and a worklight... and try some propper 3D carving with the Vectric software. When I was cutting the rebates in the lids, I discovered that I haven't managed to get the bed as flat as I was hoping either, so I'll have to have another go at shimming that. I plan on posting new projects which aren't about the construction/exploration of the CNC machine in threads of their own.



devonwoody":3pt2upow said:


> I am lost for words of appreciation that you accepted my offer of a swap of boxes being constructed by us.
> 
> I totally acknowledge that you must have put in greater time and effort on the project.
> 
> I can assure you that your gift will have a very special position in our home and also we will have the memories of a very pleasant forum comradeship that has come about.



Stop it.. You'll make me blush  I had to learn how to use the machine and the software one way or another, and it was more fun making a box for you than a pile of offcuts for November 5th. I won't deny that it took a lot of effort to learn all the software which I used to get your box made, but I needed to learn the software somehow, and as a result, it took practically no effort to do my own second box yesterday. Now i know what I'm doing, I reckon I could manage about 4 identical boxes a day.

Here's the lid for your box on the machine - 3mm rebate around the edges, and then I removed the material in the middle to a depth of 15mm - It's what I was planning to do on my own box, but I cocked it up when I tried it yesterday..





Everything sanded to 220grit, and first coat of danish oil applied. Currently drying out in the garage - I'll do a second coat this evening.


----------



## Gill

Amazing stuff - well done! Thank you ever so much for showing us the progress you've made with this router. I can't wait to see how you put it to work in future.

Gill


----------



## CNC Paul

Hi Fenc,

Great Project, I really like those dovetails.

The problem is that you will soon want to build a bigger one.....When you have some time have a look at Vcarve Pro by www.vectric.com , they do some great software which you can download and tryout.



Regards


CNC Paul


----------



## dedee

Fecn,
Can't wait to see the video of how your machine applied the danish oil.:wink: 

And after that perhaps you could show us how it makes the tea at the end of the day as well. :lol: 

All joking aside, thanks for sharing 

Andy


----------



## Mr.Chips

Fech,

Thank you for having such an interesting and informative thread, I especially like your discussion of what you are doing, lots of detail. 
That is a real good idea to incorrapt a clamping vise into your CNC. this is a very practical addition.  

Keep up the good work.


----------



## Mr.Chips

How do I subscribe to this topic/Thread? did not see a subscribe button.
Thanks


----------



## motownmartin

Mr.Chips":2mkbr3sb said:


> How do I subscribe to this topic/Thread? did not see a subscribe button.
> Thanks



Just send the cheque to motownmartin at.................................. :lol: :lol: :lol: you don't have to subscribe, all you have to do is what you already have done and join the group.

Welcome Mr.Chips


----------



## Mr.Chips

motownmartin":9q4fxddy said:


> Mr.Chips":9q4fxddy said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do I subscribe to this topic/Thread? did not see a subscribe button.
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just send the cheque to motownmartin at.................................. :lol: :lol: :lol: you don't have to subscribe, all you have to do is what you already have done and join the group.
> 
> Welcome Mr.Chips
Click to expand...


In the CNCZone I can subscribe to a thread and I will get an email notification if there are any additions to that thread. Is that possible here?
Thanks


----------



## Slim

Mr.Chips":ar31hdu8 said:


> In the CNCZone I can subscribe to a thread and I will get an email notification if there are any additions to that thread. Is that possible here?
> Thanks



Go to your profile and select 'Yes' for 'Always notify me of replies'. You will get an email when someone replies to a thread you have posted in, although your inbox might get a bit full this way. I don't think you can subscribe to individual threads.


----------



## Fecn

CNC Paul":1ym0c2g9 said:


> The problem is that you will soon want to build a bigger one.....When you have some time have a look at Vcarve Pro by www.vectric.com , they do some great software which you can download and tryout.


I downloaded the trials for the 3 different Vectric packages - I'm looking forward to trying them out - Might get the chance tomorrow. 



dedee":1ym0c2g9 said:


> Fecn,
> And after that perhaps you could show us how it makes the tea at the end of the day as well. :lol:


Hrm.. a tempting modification if it wasn't for all the sawdust.



Mr. Chips":1ym0c2g9 said:


> Thank you for having such an interesting and informative thread, I especially like your discussion of what you are doing, lots of detail.
> That is a real good idea to incorrapt a clamping vise into your CNC. this is a very practical addition. Very Happy


Hi Mr. Chips and welcome to the forum. Thanks for taking the time to come over and join. I'm surprised that I haven't seen more end-vice equipped machines - It seemed like a simple and obvious addition when I started trying to work out how to do dovetails properly.


I've just finished doing the finishing on the two boxes - Three coats of danish oil rubbed down with 000 wirewool between coats, and then two coats of finishing wax with 00000 wirewool between coats, and the final layer polished with a soft cloth.


















Together for the last time... I'm going to package up the small one and send it to DW now.


----------



## devonwoody

Lucky ole me.

Thanks Fecn. Your box is also ready for a wax finish and will be posted to your home address.

Will Post a new thread with photograph of my exchange but I am a bit embarrassed that it does not technically come up to the posting on this thread.


----------



## Slim

That is brilliant Fecn. I love the teardrop dovetails. You should be very pleased with yourself. =D>


----------



## 9fingers

Slimjim81":2ttbpii2 said:


> Mr.Chips":2ttbpii2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> In the CNCZone I can subscribe to a thread and I will get an email notification if there are any additions to that thread. Is that possible here?
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go to your profile and select 'Yes' for 'Always notify me of replies'. You will get an email when someone replies to a thread you have posted in, although your inbox might get a bit full this way. I don't think you can subscribe to individual threads.
Click to expand...


There is a way. Go to the end of the thread and click on 'watch this thread'

hth
Bob


----------



## Slim

9fingers":1yuablxg said:


> There is a way. Go to the end of the thread and click on 'watch this thread'
> 
> hth
> Bob



Oh yeah, I never saw that. Cheers Bob.


----------



## dewi

Fecn

tidy bit of kit

regarding the speed issue you need a much coarser studding - 6 or 8 tpi acme - some types of overhead garage door openers have these 4 or 5 foot long they are about 7/16 or 1/2 diameter 

hope you get it sorted

Henderson garage openers I think have them


----------



## Mr.Chips

9fingers":27wxtnxc said:


> There is a way. Go to the end of the thread and click on 'watch this thread'
> 
> hth
> Bob



I am currently getting a email notice now. But I don't see the 'watch this thread' at the end. Is it a dropdown from some other selection.
Thanks Bob


----------



## 9fingers

Hi Mr Chips,

The link you want is on the left at the very bottom of each thread.
If you are already a contributor to a thread and have already set your Profile to be notified of replies, then this link turns into a 'stop watching this topic'

Possibly best to look at a thread you have not contributed to and scroll down to the very bottom and look on the left hand side. - works for me.

hth

Bob


----------



## Mr.Chips

9fingers":1sl74vqw said:


> Hi Mr Chips,
> 
> The link you want is on the left at the very bottom of each thread.
> If you are already a contributor to a thread and have already set your Profile to be notified of replies, then this link turns into a 'stop watching this topic'
> 
> Possibly best to look at a thread you have not contributed to and scroll down to the very bottom and look on the left hand side. - works for me.
> 
> hth
> 
> Bob



Yes now I understand, I see the 'stop watching this topic' makes sense.  

Thanks Bob


----------



## Fecn

9fingers":7jct6zpf said:


> There is a way. Go to the end of the thread and click on 'watch this thread'



Wow.. I've been on this forum for over a year and never noticed that. Thanks 9fingers.



dewi":7jct6zpf said:


> Fecn
> regarding the speed issue you need a much coarser studding - 6 or 8 tpi acme - some types of overhead garage door openers have these 4 or 5 foot long they are about 7/16 or 1/2 diameter
> 
> hope you get it sorted
> 
> Henderson garage openers I think have them



I've exchanged a few PMs with mickster and he pointed me at a few obvious things with tweaking the PC setup to improve performance. The difference was amazing. After I gave the laptop a tune-up, the machine will now happily run each axis at 2.4M/Minute which is plenty enough for me. The laptop doesn't have enough grunt to handle running programs at that speed, but it works nicely around 1.5M/minute. The problem with these higher speeds is that the M8 threaded rods start 'whipping' where they vibrate due to the speed at which they're rotating. Upgrading the rods is the solution to that problem too, so I'm on the look-out for cheap ball-thread rods. I hadn't thought of garade door openers as a source - good idea.

*Here's today's new project...*

A few weeks ago, a friend of mine asked me if I could make him a name plaque to sit on his desk at work. I run my own company and figured it was a good idea as a bit of an advertising/marketing to make a bunch of name plaques for my favorite clients.

From the gate, I had left-overs with which I made DW's box. From DW's box, I had some left-overs which I thicknesed down to 12mm. I also ripped a bit of left-over shed down to 40mm and thicknessed down to 12. Whilst I had the planer/thicknesser out, I chamfered the edges on everything. 






The idea is to engrave/carve the client's name into the front, and my own company's name/number onto the back. Three through-mortises with the contrasting wood will underline the person's name (which isn't John Smith). The mortises are 5mm wide and will be cut using a 5mm 2-flute carbide cutter.





For the corresponding tenons, we'll use a 12.7mm 2-flute. The 6.35mm square in the top-left corner here is to make the setting of the origin point (where X and Y are both zero) easier as it means I just need to move the cutter until it contacts each of the the sides of the workpiece to be in the right place.





6 sets of tenons cut using 2x6mm passes at a speed of 400mm/min. The burning at the curved ends are because the curves are exported as dozens of little straight lines and the machine has to accelerate/decelerate to/from zero for each line. The net results is a cutting speed around 150mm/min. I tried to make a video of this, but my phone battery died.





Here's the mortises to go with the tenons and a test-fit to see how things look. 





I then had a test attempt at carving my company's details on the back of a piece, but because I'm using outline fonts in CorelDraw, it ended up looking a bit strange. I'm currently in the process of trying to re-work it with some different fonts.


----------



## mickster

Fecn,

if you haven't got it enabled already, you should use CV (Constant Velocity) mode to speed up the cuts on the corners, instead of accelerating & decelerating as Mach interpolates each individual line on the arc. Look under <Config> <General> [Motion Mode]

If CV mode is not the reason, you could try increasing the 'Look ahead'. Mach 3 uses look ahead to analyze the toolpath & forecast the max feedrate, for X amount of g-code lines. Look under <Config> <General> [General Configuration] I think the default is about 20 lines...try increasing to say 50 lines & repeat the cut. If you have made a difference, you will hear it from the sound of the steppers.

Also, G02/G03 should be quicker if you want to produce the g-code by hand or do a bit of editing. If this is an operation you are going to be using frequently, tweaking the code to give optimum speed is quite valuable...G01 to Z 0.0, then feed at normal, instead of feeding from the release plane at vertical feed rate. I saved roughly 30 seconds on a 2 or 3 minute test file, just by doing rapids down to Z 0.0, then feeding at normal rate. Not a huge saving on a small file, but imagine how much could be saved on a large job with a lot of plunges.

Or...you could use FRO on the curves & then drop back to the original feed rate for the straights.

Edit: G01 should read G00


----------



## Fecn

Thanks Mick - I'll have the CV and lookahead settings a try in the morning... along with the stick40 single-line font I found this evening.


----------



## Fecn

Mickster - I took a look at the settings and Constant Velocity was already turned on. I upped the look-ahead to 50 at first and later to 100. No change. It would be nice if Corel was exporting curves rather than lines. Maybe I should learn some other software.

It took me a few trial attempts, but eventually I found settings which gave decent looking text without blowing out the centres of the characters 8, 4, e, b etc - Since I have no desire to advertise, I've photoshopped the pic to remove my company's phone number and some of the name. This shot is taken just after the first coat of danish oil went on.





I used the same cutter and cut depth (2.4mm) for the front, but used the windows Impact font at 90pt. Again, I've photoshopped the names to protect the innocent. After the oil's had a few hours to dry, I'll give it some wax to get a bit more shine.





Engraving the text onto the desk plaques is about the most boring thing ever invented. Each plaque takes about 45 minutes to do and you can't leave the machine unattended.. just in case. I read the screwfix catalog twice but once I tired of that, I decided it was time to call for some outside help. Nicole agreed to keep an eye on things for me whilst I went for an afternoon snooze. Naturally I told her off for forgetting her safety glasses.





I'll be glad when I've finished engraving these because it really is very very dull.


----------



## Mr.Chips

Nice job Fetch.

Lets see, Nichle was watching the run, and you were snoozing. That just proves it, You Snooze You Loose!!  

I notice all your pictures of your machine has a green tint, I undestand it was made out of MDF, is MDF green in the UK? It's kinda brown in the US.

Hager


----------



## wizer

Mr.Chips":33v3fpro said:


> MDF green in the UK? It's kinda brown in the US.



Green MDF is moisture resistant


----------



## Fecn

WiZeR":1nht9o27 said:


> Mr.Chips":1nht9o27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> MDF green in the UK? It's kinda brown in the US.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green MDF is moisture resistant
Click to expand...


Yep - I used the mositure resistant stuff as I believe it's supposed to be very stable and largely unaffected by changes in humidity. I didn't want to have to recalibrate the machine just because it's a damp day.


----------



## seaco

That's funny Nicole was playing with my tool in my dream last night... :wink:


----------



## Mr.Chips

Fech,
Here is a Pin and Scallop type of dovetail substute that was started around 1870. 

Looks looks like an easy and strong joint to make on a CNC.

Hager

OK, guess I don't know how to post an image. Will look into this and post later.


----------



## Fecn

If this is the one you're talking about...






Mmm.. that does look like a fun one - I can see how that works. That's a very interesting and attractive joint design. I'm definitely going to have to have a go at those sometime soon. I need to get myself working on some larger projects so I can use all these new tricks I've been learning.


----------



## Mr.Chips

Fecn":1nj8bsl9 said:


> If this is the one you're talking about...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mmm.. that does look like a fun one - I can see how that works. That's a very interesting and attractive joint design. I'm definitely going to have to have a go at those sometime soon. I need to get myself working on some larger projects so I can use all these new tricks I've been learning.



Yes, That is exactly the one.  
Hager


----------



## Mr.Chips

Yeas thst id exasctly it.
Hager
Try to post picture.
[http://www.thewoodworksinc.com/HTM_FILES/pin_&_crescent_drawer_joints_files/image002.jpg]

Must be missing something here. Oh Well


----------



## Fecn

Mr.Chips":3d1ehb2o said:


> Must be missing something here. Oh Well



I think it's the ampersand or the underscores that's stopping the image from working - I can't make that one work either.


----------



## Lord Nibbo

Here it is
http://www.thewoodworksinc.com/HTM_FILE ... age002.jpg


----------



## Mr.Chips

Lord Nibbo":3c62o8t6 said:


> Here it is
> http://www.thewoodworksinc.com/HTM_FILE ... age002.jpg



I was trying tying to post a picture, havent got the syntax right yet.


----------



## Mr.Chips

Fecn":269xz0qk said:


> I'll be glad when I've finished engraving these because it really is very very dull.



Boy am I getting slow.

You are able to clamp the box sides vertically on your movable table because the base is CUT OUT to allow the piece being cut to entend down almost to the floor if need be, and held rigid by your wooden vise arrangement. A super innovation, for a fixed gantry. I have never seen that before.

Guess I was distracted by Nicole. Well my wife would believe that.


----------



## kc8kzn

I had a job running a commercial router in a sign shop. The tabletop was always flat to the cutter because when the top was replaced we would mill the entire surface. I have seen several comments here and on CNCzone about shimming the table. Is there some reason why people don’t mill the tables on the small machines?


----------



## Fecn

Hi kc8kzn and welcome to the forum.

I have considered milling the surface for a while now, but have been worried about the MDF turning fluffy as a result... My attempts at milling a flat surface so far with a 1/2" cutter have left a stripe pattern that makes me thing things are not as level as they could be.

The other thing that's been stopping me is that I've been crazy busy with my day-job lately and not had a chance to get to the shed for the last couple of weeks.

With any luck I might get some time in there tomorrow... I bought myself a new quiet dust extractor to make things a bit more pleasant down there... Just need to find a quiet router now.


----------



## chipchaser

What an inspirational thread and huge respect for the energy you display not to mention the multi faceted skill set! Several questions arising if I may:

I think you mentioned elsewhere accuracy of 0.1mm, is the machine holding that accuracy?
Did you use anti backlash nuts?
How are the slides performing, any signs of wear or play developing?
Any suggestions for source of new slides as good as your server slides?
Any chance of a set of plans or maybe "not to scale sketches" to illustrate the general arrangements of the parts and to pass on the tips and hints you picked up during the build? I expect you need to get on with earning a crust but there must be a lot of useful advice you might include about choosing suitably sized steppers and other components, how to mount the lead screws etc.

Thank you for sharing your project with us.


----------



## wizer

how you getting on with it Fecn?


----------



## Philly

Yeah - been wondering how you are getting on with it. Are the drawer slides holding up?
Philly


----------



## Anonymous

chipchaser":c6q3x8i3 said:


> How are the slides performing, any signs of wear or play developing?
> Any suggestions for source of new slides as good as your server slides?



Chipchaser

I would suggest that you will be better off with some linear bearings (self aligning to some degree)and silver steel or some industrial linear slides (when I worked for a living :wink: (lecturer now), we usually used 'Item' slides on machines with X/Y motion) - RS components linear bearings at reasonable prices these days.

Fecn

Still loving this. Hope you can get the speed sorted as 45 minutes for the engraving must be a little disappointing? The speed musty be in there and it's still early days, I'm sure it'll come


----------



## Fecn

For the last couple of months, most of my workshop antics have been quashed due to flood of work, a couple of colds and some very miserable weather. I'm afraid to say I haven't actually used the machine since I finished off the desktop name signs back in November. This project's sort-of on hold for the next few weeks whilst I get clear of my current paying-the-mortgage workload, but here's a flavour of what's coming soon.

Whilst I was making the desktop name signs I came to the conclusion that it was no fun whatsoever sitting on a cardboard box next to the noisy, dusty router whilst it whirred away for hours on end. When the weather's nice, I just stand outside the shed whilst the machine's running, but it's been cold and wet lately so I started to dream about a quieter router and a dust-free machine. I must make myself a stool too.

The current tool-holder is a bit sub-par and needs to be re-invented using some Niki-style inginuety so that I can more easily swap from the big router to the little router... and whilst I'm at it, I'll add some dust extraction... and a compressed-air blast to clear debris from the cutter.. and some lighting. I've got an old 3U folded steel rackmount shelf kicking around the office which I'm planning to attack soon with a hacksaw so I can turn it into a tool holder.

I had some pneumatic bits and bobs lying around, so I've already tested out the plumbing for the air blast. I plan to wire up that as a 'coolant' function from the Mach3 software.

I bought myself a new dust extractor that's super-quiet. It's a Nilfisk Alto Attix 550 and I have to say that I'm very impressed with it so far. I'll write a review of it once I've had the chance to fill up the canister a couple of times. I've been getting together dust extraction hoses and connectors so that I can do a shop-wide extraction setup.

When I was making the CNC machine, I didn't have the chance to play with my new Triton router... Once I had the chance to play with the triton, I discovered how much quieter it is than the cheapie B&Q 1500W router I have been using. As part of the B&Q sell-off I bought a second Triton to use on the machine - It's still in the shrink-wrap at the moment, but it'll be the one that ends up on the new tool holder.

When I first made my machine, a friend of mine bought the same stepper motors and drivers. He's finally pulled his finger out this week and bought himself a bunch of drawer slides which got delivered to his house today. I havne't seen the slides he bought yet, but he tells me they're good and solid with no play or kinks. He's ordered wire, microswitches, NVR and the other bits and bobs today. Around a month from now we'll get together for a weekend and make a second machine, and we'll video the construction of it all 




chipchaser":y8ll9j1x said:


> I think you mentioned elsewhere accuracy of 0.1mm, is the machine holding that accuracy?
> Did you use anti backlash nuts?
> How are the slides performing, any signs of wear or play developing?
> Any suggestions for source of new slides as good as your server slides?
> Any chance of a set of plans or maybe "not to scale sketches" to illustrate the general arrangements of the parts and to pass on the tips and hints you picked up during the build? I expect you need to get on with earning a crust but there must be a lot of useful advice you might include about choosing suitably sized steppers and other components, how to mount the lead screws etc.



I'd say that repeatibility was 0.1mm (or better), but the tool holder I have in place currently deflects somewhat with harder woods. When I made the name signs, I discovered that the holes in the hardwood were smaller than the pins in the softwood even though they were the same size on the drawings. 

I'm not using any anti-backlash nuts - I used some braided fuel-hose and a couple of jubilee clips to connect the motors to the threaded rods. Anti-backlash nuts would undoubtedly be better - I noticed the effects of backlash for the first time when doing the lids for the boxes. Cuts in each direction were slightly different lengths (about 0.4mm I reckon)

The best price we found was from Buller ... http://www.bullerltd.co.uk/section.php/274/0

You're welcome to my sketchup drawing, but it probably doesn't convey the thing any better than the photos on this site. I'll document the construction procedure a bit better when we make the next machine - I remember I was very pleased with my 'measure nothing so there's no measurement errors' technique.


----------



## Philly

Thanks for the update, Fecn.
Looking forward to your video build - I'm about to build a Rockcliffe design. Well, a suitable tweaked one :wink: 
Philly


----------



## Fecn

Excellent stuff Philly... I'll look forward to that thread


----------



## chipchaser

Fecn, 
thanks for the info on slides etc. I am looking forward to seeing the video when you have time. 
It has been very wet in Warwickshire too but we only had two days when the lower road out of our village was flooded. Looks like the weather has turned a bit better now, fingers crossed. 
I tried using a manual desk top milling machine fitted with a router bit to test profile some timber. Winding those little handles was very tedious hence my interest in CNC. I found a small misalignment at the top left corner of a rectangular pocket which might have been inadequate workholding allowing the cutter to pull the work towards it. The mill claims 0.0005 in accuracy so I'll repeat the exercise to test my theory. 
I am attracted to the idea of measuring nothing but guess I might end up all bitter and twisted :wink:


----------



## chipchaser

Tony, 

thanks your advice concerning rails and I do understand the potential shortcomings of drawer slides. I would like a table that could cut over an area of 600mm square, preferably a bit more. I priced up the cheapest rails, supports and bearings from RS to create 3 axes, assuming that for all but Z axis one would start from 1 metre length rails. Total £858 ex VAT. 

From Marchant Dice the nearest equivalents totaled £520 ex VAT. 

In both cases the extruded alloy supports for rails totalled over £200 so if another cheaper support system was acceptable one might save say £150 but do more work oneself. 

Drawer slides, assuming one used a pair at each end of the table in horizontal plane and the same in vertical plane, for better location, on the X and Y and similar in Z, say 8 pairs at about £8 per pair totalling £64 ex VAT. 

All the above prices also exclude delivery. IMHO I suggest that a MDF frame may not make best use of these more precise components so one looks to a steel frame at additional cost. 

My question is, is it worth having a try using drawer slides in the knowledge that one may well have to upgrade to better rails after a while or perhaps be put off entirely? That is really why I asked the question about accuracy and durability. If one later found that CNC is useful and one needs a proper machine for paid work then it may be worth investing in better kit. On the other hand if it is something nice to play with but only used rarely maybe the cheap solution is enough? 

I haven't forgotten that whatever mechanical solution is tried there will also be £300 upwards to be spent on motors and drives etc  

Best regards


----------



## Fecn

A friend of mine who saw the name plaques I made as chistmas presents for some of my clients said "Where's mine!" and pointed out that it's his birthday on the 19th March. 

I still had a little bit of left-over Ipé which I'd prepared before christmas. I resawed and thicknessed some Ash for the back pieces this time. 






I started out with a few test cuts on some scrap - It's been a couple of months since I made the last set of name plaques so I needed to remind myself of the machine setup and tooling. I don't know if I mentioned on this thread before, but the plastic spindle lock mechanism on the B&Q cheapie router developed a crack last year - Whilst I refamiliarising myself and doing my test cuts, the yellow button in the middle fell out and then the spindle lock stated making a worrying rattling sound... I decided it was time to hit the emergency stop button and finally start making a new tool holder for the Triton. I'd been planning on the new tool holder for ages, and the spindle lock was the push I needed to get me started...

Off with the old tool...





I figured that this time, I'd try and make the thing a bit more compact and far more rigid - I decieded that a half-box arrangement would work well.. and this time I'd design it from the ground up to allow me to use some better dust extraction.

I worked out the bits I needed for a compressed air blast system before christmas - My idea was that this could be hooked up to the 'coolant' function in the software used to clear chips from the cutter/cut.

This is pretty basic really.. a low voltage solenoid valve and a couple of tubes.





I used my table saw to cut a spare bit of laminate flooring and some MDF to fit the new router





I used the scroll saw to cut the side pieces to fit around the handle - I wanted to keep as much material as possible on the sides to maintain rigidity.





When the router is plunged down, it fits neatly in the curves.





I sorted out some holes in the laminate flooring (drill press + scroll saw)





.. and that's about as far as I got.

I actually did all this and took all these photos two weeks ago - I haven't made it back into the workshop since. It's now four days until my mate's birthday so I'd better pull my finger out.


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## wizer

I have been browsing CNC sites the past couple of nights. Vaguely considering a build.

How much do you think it all cost you fecn?


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## Fecn

I reckon it cost me about 400 quid for all the bits except the router... 270 of that was the steppers and drivers.


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## Fecn

The biggest annoyance I had with the last tool holder was the lack of dust/chip extraction. I got myself an old broken Dyson (with all the hoses and nozzles) from my local Freecycle group - 'Free' seemed like the best price I could find.

For this tool holder, the dust+chips need to travel upwards and unfortunately the outlet on the Triton is to the side. I didn't want to modify the router so I spent a while shaping one of the Dyson nozzles using a carbide burr to make it fit into the extraction hole.





I glued the hose-fitting attachemnt to the top with a spot of superglue to hold it in place.





Now that I've got the thing fitting properly I can build up the rest.





Time for my favorite plastic.. Polymorph. I built up the shape gradually using my fingers to ensure that the path for the chips would be smooth and clear..





The completed article...





And here's how it looks on the router... Plugs in and fits perfectly.





Now... if I can just get my two year old daughter to go to sleep then maybe I can make it back to the shed tongiht and put some screws/glue in.


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## Fecn

Hooray - The dust extraction all fits beautifully... so I glued everything in place.





Strap clamp to hold the Proxxon in place. 





Locked!! - That sure is one ugly looking contraption... but as long as it doesn't fall to pieces then it's doing it's job. I almost feel embarassed with the way it looks.





Finally screwed onto the machine so it's back in action again... (not tested yet since it's 10PM) - Seems to be a good improvement on the old holder.





This thing looks so ugly that I'm almost inclined to have another go at making it... however.. I'll press it into service for a while first and see how it fares up.


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## Philly

Don't worry about the looks - get it working! :lol: 
Awaiting your test cuts....
Philly


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## wizer

So the Proxxon and the Triton both go into the same toolholder? Or am I reading that wrong>?


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## Fecn

WiZeR":1d2lyrhk said:


> So the Proxxon and the Triton both go into the same toolholder? Or am I reading that wrong>?



That's right. They actually both went in the same tool holder before too, but it was quite a pain to change between them. I wanted to make it easier swap them over... hence the strap-clamp.

If I'd have seen those Kress milling motors about 6 months ago (I think it was you who posted them on ukw) then I'd have probably used one of them instead.


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## wizer

riiiight, so how does it flip between tools?


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## Fecn

Big router has four screws in the base - I would like to do some quick-release cam-lock thing for that too, but didn't have the imagination for it last night. - Happy enough just to have it bolted together again for now so that I can do the last ever batch of name plaque things and get onto something more interesting instead like some full-sized furniture.


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## wizer

ah I'm with you, they don't go in there both at the same time, you manually swap them.

I was thinking today how it could a plywood chair. Something like this:







In fact it'd be perfect for hardwood chair parts


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## Fecn

I'm quite tempted to have a go at doing a high stool so that I've got somewhere to sit in the shed... I was thinking of trying something like the Facet Chair made by 'Unto This Last' ... only higher and without such an angle on the legs.






I figured I could put it on rollers and use the under-seat bit for storage too.

Probably quicker and easier to make it on the bandsaw.. but where's the fun in that.


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## wizer

Well i'm guessing it'll be a PITA to work it all out and get it to cut exactly how you want it. But the the point, I suppose, is that you can then push out a batch of exactly the same components to make, say, a set of 8 dining chairs or x amount of stools for sale.

For me, chair making is a major plus point for the CNC.


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## Fecn

Managed to snatch an hour in the shed this afternoon before all the relatives arrived to put an end to my fun.

Someone somewhere on this thread suggested milling the bed to flatten it - I thought that would be a good test for the new router and the new tool holder. 
I was aiming to go 1mm below the old surface of the table... looking good so far...





Dust extraction makes the whole exercise a lot more pleasant - I'll do a review on my new dust extractor in the next few days... I've put it through it's paces for long enough now to decide what I think of it...





The new Triton isn't looking quite so pristine anymore... About time too...





Sorry this one's a bit blurry - All these shots are from my mobile phone and because it's so small i don't always manage to hold it steady... Only about 70% of my shots are worth keeping. There are still a couple of low spots on the bed.. the one at the front is my own fault - I tightened the screw in extra-tight to ensure that the cutter wouldn't hit it - I shouldn't have worried.





I guess I'll take another 0.25mm off next time I get a chance to make it down there.


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## Fecn

I've always regarded my 250W bandsaw as rather pathetic, but the last time I was in the shed it actually managed to impress me - Today, I gave it a try on some of the Ipé left from the gate. Amazingly it managed to resaw it so after a little tidying up on the thicknesser I had some stock prepared for more desk name plaques. After thicknessing+sanding the wood was down to 8mm





Rather than cutting the bits up and doing each plaque individually I thought I'd make use of the full length of the machine bed and do them three at a time. Each set of writing is currently taking 50 mins to complete. Although it doesn't look like much, it took around 3 hours to get this lot done. I could probably increase the feed rate but I had a known-good set of settings from last time so didn't want to mess.





3 down (un-sanded), 9 to go. I guess I know what I'm doing tomorrow.


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## NeilO

`kin hell Fecn.....judging by the screw in the rail to the right, thats some tiny writng you got there, very impressed, in fact I would say in awe, that "router" of yours impresses me everytime I see you pull something else off with it....... =D> =D>


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## devonwoody

Nice looking offcuts laying around there,  

And some nice work too.


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## Fecn

Today, I got smart. I moved one of the security cameras from the garage to the shed so that I could keep an eye on the machine from the comfort of the office. It is so much nicer than standing around next to the machine all day long and I managed to get all of the backs done by 17:30

The shot below is a picture of a right little trooper. This pointy carbide burr has done all of the cutting for the backs, and it's not even the first time I've used it.
The backs take 50mins each for the machine to do. In total that's 600mins that the tool had to spin for. At 11,000 RPM that means the cutter has spun round a whopping 6,600,000 times. With an average cutting speed of 150mm/min it means the tip of that cutter has made it's way through 90 metres of very hard hardwood. This tip of this poor little cutter is around 0.2mm and has to make over 73,000 cuts just to get through a metre. Carbide sure is tough stuff.





So.. after another 8 hours spinning today, the cutter's work is done (for today).








NeilO":2si5ukhu said:


> `kin hell Fecn.....judging by the screw in the rail to the right, thats some tiny writng you got there...



Here's a close-up to give you some idea of scale - I'll sand the backs later tonight to get rid of the rough edges. - Hopefully I've managed to obscure enough of the carving to stop it being an advert. I'm not interested in advertising my company here... but I can't avoid the fact that I'm making these as semi-gifts for my clients.


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## wizer

Today I have also been making a name plate. I used the Milescraft router sign maker. I wasn't impressed and found myself thinking about your CNC. I think the time it takes to setup the milescraft, then move it after every 10 letters, then clean up.. you're much better off doing it your way.


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## 9fingers

Hi FECN,

Please don't think I'm being picky - you are getting some fantastic results and with making things for your business you will be able to offset the construction and running costs against profits- good move!

However it looks like there are signs of burning on your lettering maybe indicating you could run at higher feed rates perhaps. The cutter should be holding it edge unless you have been doing much work in abrasive timbers such as teak.
Do the slightly furry edges sand off OK?

I keep thinking of converting my milling machine to CNC and engraving will be one application but in metal. Definitely on my round 2 it list.

Keep up the good work and the postings!

Bob

PS Just enough info exposed to track you down but only with a bit of guess work included but I'll keep it under my hat.


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## The_Stig

Ooo... I have a few rack mounts hanging around the office with no home... humm... if only!!


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## joesoap

I can't say I have ever been so impressed with one man's achievement with having done so much in such a short time is just incredible . Inspiring to the clever one's hereabouts I'm sure .

I had to fast forward to here as I am knackered just with looking at the workrate alone so must have a lie down in the recovery position . What enjoyment your a wizard in your own right . Is it patentable I wonder ? 
Cheers !


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## big soft moose

just catching up with this thread - absolutely awesome.

If i could knock one of these up the boss would worship me for ever and a day as it would totally revolutionise our sign making (we are currently using a tend router graph with okayish results).

unfortunately i dont think my electrickery and computer skills are up to it - maybe when the fecn kit is available....


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## DangerousDave

WOW :shock: I haven't seen this post before, that is truly awesome Fecn


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## Fecn

Thanks guys 

Wife's parents are down to visit from tomorrow so I'll try to dust off the machine (unused since April) and finish the project that I started... and do something else cool which I've been planning for ages but never got around to.


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## Dal123

This is amazing. I don't think you realize how clever you are! Absolutely brilliant.
You built it so quickly as well. I'm truly amazed, inspiring!   :idea:


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## Benchwayze

Nick W":626yz7ly said:


> When I try to watch the video all I get is the sound. What's wrong?


Don't worry. if you do get the sound, you will only mute it. 
The vid is fine but on my laptop the sound was hurting my ears!!! 
So I muted it..

Impressive piece of work I have to admit.

John


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## WandrinAndy

A pity that most photos are no longer available on this thread.  

But even without them, a great informative thread... Great work Fecn =D>


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