# Fitting bathroom standpipes (shrouds)



## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

I admit defeat! I can't see how this can be done without ripping down the ceiling underneath. But there must be a way surely but how? Need to fit a pair of standpipe shrouds similar to these



 

What is foxing me is how you make the bottom connection (arrowed). Options are:

1) Copper right angle and solder? But the length of those elbows means it will hardly appear above the tiling. I'll be blasting a flame straight at the underlying ply supporting substrate...surely not a good idea.

2) Ditto compression join. The elbow is going to be too short to stick above the tiles to get a spanner on. Or are there special elbows with long legs designed for this?

3) Hep2O push-fit.....how to get support underneath the elbow to resist the downward pressure as you push the vertical pipe in. Can't see how.

4) Remove ceiling in room below.

Not helped by SWMBO saying 'shouldn't we get someone in'....grrrrrrrr :evil:


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

Is the floor already tiled? The way to do it would be to take up adjacent boards so you have access to the under side of the sub-floor elbow.


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

No floorboards. The substrate is marine grade ply.


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

The ply will probably have floorboards beneath it, can you cut a section out next to where you are working? Have you done this sort of thing before?


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## MMUK (5 Nov 2013)

I'll second the "escape hatch" approach


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Grayorm":1yentcxd said:


> The ply will probably have floorboards beneath it, can you cut a section out next to where you are working? Have you done this sort of thing before?



No, none at all...you can see the exact situation here 





I've done most things before but never fitting these standpipes. I asked over on AskTheTrades and the consensus from one very experienced guy is that they are the spawn of Satan and whoever designed them should bloody well come and fit them. I agree that perhaps I could go and make some floorboards up but as I have a tiler coming in to do the ensuite tiling I don't think he'd be that chuffed doing a partial tile, going away to let me plumb up, then fix down the floorboards then come back and finish tiling. And given that heavy 68kg bath going down I'd prefer to have as good a floor underneath it as I can.


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## AndyT (5 Nov 2013)

Would it help to add a straight connector in the vertical pipe? This would let you assemble both sides of the elbow and could give the effect of an elbow with one tall side.


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

AndyT":s1j9vjmz said:


> Would it help to add a straight connector in the vertical pipe? This would let you assemble both sides of the elbow and could give the effect of an elbow with one tall side.



I did wonder about that but I checked the internal bore of the shroud and there is only enough room for a 'man's solder connector'....and without any extra blobs of solder round the outside. Plus there won't be a lot of slack available to slide the shroud up out of the way...two man job probably...someone holding the shroud and asbestos mat to protect it....no, I see trouble. How do you hold the bottom pipe steady/at the right height? 

That ceiling partial-removal is looking more likely ....pipper. You know you don't want to go there because you get 'that look' from SWMBO. The look that says 'do you know what you are doing...why don't you get a man in'. :evil:


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

Fix a floorboard/slice of ply around the area, fit the pipes while you have access to do so then fit the rest of the floor around it?


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Tiling. Thats the problem. I'm not doing it


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

Can't he tile round them once the floor is re-laid? Are they for a free standing bath?


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Yes it is a free-standing bath. 

I can relay the floor ..that isn't the problem. There will be two holes where the vertical 22mm pipes come through. So I guess i could make the bottom elbow joint and then have 3ft or so of pipe sticking up. ..definitely longer than what is required..then drill two holes to match in the large heavy plywood sheet. Then somehow drop the sheet over the pipes..bearing in mind that the sheet will go right up to the walls on two sides so no opportunity for anyone to hold the sheet on those sides. Assuming that that has actually worked then I'm not sure how pleased the tiler will be working around those 3ft pipes...probably OK at a guess. Then when he has finished and the tiles have set, sticking the shrouds over with the floor flange, pulling the pipe upwards so that it has at least 4" or so above the shroud, asbestos mat round the top of the shroud to protect it from the gas burner then solder the tap connector on the end. Repeat for the other side. Push the pipes back down ...although I don;t think I have that much wiggle room TBH. I can see so many things that could go wrong.

Actually that's not going to work because the floor flanges need fixing in position after the taps which bridge the vertical shrouds at the top will really need to be fitted so that the bottom flanges get put in the right place...pipes vertical and parallel to each other. I'm going to have to temporarily fit the taps, align the flanges, mark their fixing hole positions, remove the taps, lift the shroud and flange so that i can drill the fixing holes through the tiles using a small hollow diamond drill bit....which I won't be able to do if the top tap connectors have been soldered on.


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

1. Connect the stand pipes in position.
2. Cut a panel of ply wide enough to span both pipes, drill holes and drop over pipes.
3. Make good rest of floor.
If the tiller is worth his salt the pipes should create no problem at all.


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## jasonB (5 Nov 2013)

Solder on an elbow with a short length of pipe for the horizontal. feed them down through a hole in teh tile. Leave a big ovel hole under the bath to fit isolating valves and make any connections before you place the bath over the oval hole. Thats how I did the similar one which is one advantage over baths with feet.

Or get some 900mm long flexi 22mm tap connectors rather than using the copper and use in heh same way making teh connection under the bath


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Grayorm":1u6f9enb said:


> 1. Connect the stand pipes in position.
> 2. Cut a panel of ply wide enough to span both pipes, drill holes and drop over pipes.
> 3. Make good rest of floor.
> If the tiller is worth his salt the pipes should create no problem at all.



Yup..I can see how that will work, thanks....



jasonB":1u6f9enb said:


> Solder on an elbow with a short length of pipe for the horizontal. feed them down through a hole in teh tile. Leave a big ovel hole under the bath to fit isolating valves and make any connections before you place the bath over the oval hole. Thats how I did the similar one which is one advantage over baths with feet.
> 
> Or get some 900mm long flexi 22mm tap connectors rather than using the copper and use in heh same way making teh connection under the bath



but this approach appeals more to me...

need to look at the layout of beams and supports etc.

Many thanks guys.....you've made me a happy man.


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## Graham Orm (5 Nov 2013)

Good luck, keep us informed.


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## AndyT (5 Nov 2013)

What a horrible problem to be stuck with. I guess you don't want me to suggest boxing in the bath, so I won't say that. Nor would you like the perfectly acceptable (to me) option of the chrome plastic trims which snap around copper pipe in situ. But I am wondering how you will ever put it right if the trap blocks or anything starts to leak. 
So two other thoughts just in case.... use chromed pipe and leave it on show, without the shrouds?
And for putting the ply down over the vertical pipes - threading a heavy sheet with a hole in it sounds too risky to me. I would drill the holes in the right place then split the sheet in two along a line drawn through the holes. Obviously you'd need an extra bearer underneath to screw the two edges down to but it should still be strong and level enough to tile over. 

PS - presumably these things don't come with a manual at all?!


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

AndyT":rg9wst4e said:


> ...
> PS - presumably these things don't come with a manual at all?!



yes.

1) Fit tap connector
2) Fit bottom connector

...more or less !


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Ah well. The compression connector on the 900m flexi is 31mm diameter and so too big for the tube. It will have to be Jason's first option.

Incidentally, the K12 *C* bath outlet is fittable from the top ie no backnut.


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## jasonB (5 Nov 2013)

The other option is to flog the ones you have on e-bay and buy two piece ones where the top section of shroud telescopes over the bottom so you connect your taps and then just slide the outer section up to hide the tap connector and thread from the tap. Bathstore ones work that way.

Re the flexis, can you push the tap end up the shroud rather than the compression end down, though they are likely to be the same hex so may not work

J


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

No the tap end is even larger looking at the photos. Can't see SWMBO buying the idea of selling them either. I can do it with your first suggestion. I'll take up two of the supporting bearers and re-orientate them along the bath axis. Just didn't think about the fact that one can have quite a decent hole underneath the bath.


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## jasonB (5 Nov 2013)

I've just been and measured an octagonal nutted 22mm yorkshire tap connector and the across corners dimension is 33mm so don't know what you are going to do as a hex nutted one would be even bigger.


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## jasonB (5 Nov 2013)

Just looked at the diagram again, is part 4 supplied and if so is it 15mm pipe to 3/4" tap thread or a small hex or rounded 22mm to 3/4" tap??


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## RogerS (5 Nov 2013)

Sorry for any confusion. That diagram I chose just as an example of the type of pipe. Ours is not that model but DA313 from Hudson Reed.







and they provide the endfeed tapconnector that fits in the top sleeve.


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## RogerS (21 Nov 2013)

To close off on this, I have finally put in place the steel strengthening channel (discussed in the General Woodworking thread) and added supports around the central hole that will give me the access to fitting the second fix connections to the standpipes.



 

All the bearers are supported wherever possible by the heavy-duty oak beams underneath. 

I did a dry run for fitting the standpipes as these needed to be soldered up at both ends and there isn't a Backspace key ! I used two 45 degree bends so that the 90 degree bend under the tiled floor is a more gradual 'curve' thus allowing me to slide the pipes that will end up underneath the floor down through the hole and along. Luckily the bottom chrome fixing flanges are quite large which lets me have a very elongated hole to assist the 'slide'.

I have decided that I will let the tiler put the tiles down around the access opening and then when the adhesive has gone off I will make an accurate template in MDF and drill through the tiles myself and then on through into the plywood.

The silver duck tape is only there to provide some mechanical strength to that joint...it's binding a small piece of oak underneath. Not to stop leaks!


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