# Tenoner Removing Top Head Nut Multico TM1



## pollys13 (26 Mar 2019)

I put releasing oil on nut of the bottom head last night and tried to squirt some up into the top nut.
In reply to my other post I was told the bottom head has a left hand thread, clockwise to loosen I got that undone quite easily. 

The top head nut, anti clockwise to loosen I'm having trouble with this. I've put a half scaffold pole as a lever over the socket handle, the nut won't budge.

See photo C red arrow showing direction I'm moving the ratchet handle. I am trying to move in the correct direction?
Cheers.


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## Mike Jordan (26 Mar 2019)

Wrong way! That is a normal thread. You are being confused by the fact that's it's inverted.


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## Trevanion (26 Mar 2019)

I think you’re tightening it, you want to loosen them the same way they rotate when operating.

NEVER put a scaffold pole on a ratchet, especially when working on machines. You’re going to snap, bend or weaken the spindle shaft by doing that.


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## pollys13 (26 Mar 2019)

Top head, looking up at the nut from underneath, the socket on the ratchet is set to turn anti clockwise, moving the ratchet handle in the direction of the arrow does this.
So I'm going in the wrong direction?
If I try to squirt releasing fluid in from the top will get on the belt?


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## Trevanion (26 Mar 2019)

You need to loosen it off the same direction the head spins while it is running.


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## pollys13 (26 Mar 2019)

Trevanion":3o1hwacd said:


> You need to loosen it off the same direction the head spins while it is running.


 Just tried doing that, still won't budge, didn't use scaffold pole this time.


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## pollys13 (26 Mar 2019)

There are guys on the forum who restore machinery including the Multico Tenoner. They should be able to say how to get the top nut off I'll ask them.


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## deema (26 Mar 2019)

Looking at the photo, you need to untighten it by turning the nut in the opposite direction to the arrow. It is undone by rotating it in the same direction as you did for the bottom block, clockwise as you look down onto it. Because it’s upside down this is actually rotating the nut in the opposite direction to the bottom nut.

I’d squirt some penetration oil on it from the top and bottom and wait overnight before trying again, tap the wrench with a copper faced hammer a few times, often the impact will loosen it. If that fails using a blow torch warm up just the nut / thread before trying again.


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## merlin (27 Mar 2019)

This is my little reminder......

Merlin


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## pollys13 (27 Mar 2019)

Just tried again, right direction this time, no joy.Have squirted a load of penetrating oil on top of the shaft and through the small gap above the drive belt and a few squirts up under the nut. Will oil getting on the drive belt cause it to slip, if so is it possible to remove
oil? If still no joy will try butane blow torch.


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## Trevanion (27 Mar 2019)

You might need the scaffold pole again to take it back off since you've tightened it as tight as you could with the scaffold pole.

Just don't do it again


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## pollys13 (27 Mar 2019)

Trevanion":2lvkcuq2 said:


> You might need the scaffold pole again to take it back off since you've tightened it as tight as you could with the scaffold pole.
> 
> Just don't do it again


Too right, have banged a couple of times with club hammer, wrapped in face towel, still no luck. Used a 32mm socket to get 30mm bottom nut of easily enough, had put penetrating oil on it first.
Was told should have used a 30mm socket as could bruise the nut, then I would be in a right mess.
Will contact local garage mate in morning if can borrow for an hour suitable sized locking bar for spindle and 30mm socket. Hey Ho 
Will keep updated.


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## tomatwark (27 Mar 2019)

From memory I used a no3 pozi drive screw driver as a locking bar through the hole.

Take the towel off the hammer, it will soften the blow.


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## pollys13 (28 Mar 2019)

Got the nut undone, bent several screwdrivers and snapped couple of spade bits. Used bolt cutters to get one bent screwdriver out of hole.... hey ho

When I got the top nut off, the head wasn't interested in coming off the shaft. So I moved a bit of timber around the perimeter of the block, giving it quite a few hard wacks.

Looking at photos have I knocked the spindle assembly down a bit? The drive belt is not level and quite a big gap.

I just bought a 30mm socket for future use. I'll also inquire what is hardest steel and get a section of round bar in that, to use as a locking bar.Anyone know the torque setting for doing up the nuts?Is releasing fluid on the belt going to be a problem?
Cheers.


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## tomatwark (28 Mar 2019)

Put new belts on.

They will only be a few quid.
I would take out the top spindle and replace the bearings while you have it this far apart.
Once you have done it up you probably will never need to remove the heads again.


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## Trevanion (28 Mar 2019)

pollys13":2pyt06bs said:


> I'll also inquire what is hardest steel and get a section of round bar in that



A short length of Silver Steel would be more than strong enough for that job, you start getting into hardened steels and you'll have to get a few extra notes out of your pocket. It just needs to be a snugger fit in the hole rather than a sloppy fit which allows things to bend and snap, A hardened steel rod is more likely to snap anyway rather than something with a little more flex.

Why are you taking off the heads anyway? Putting on some fancy safety cutters or stack tooling?


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## pollys13 (29 Mar 2019)

Trevanion":25f0wf7d said:


> pollys13":25f0wf7d said:
> 
> 
> > I'll also inquire what is hardest steel and get a section of round bar in that
> ...


" A short length of Silver Steel " OK cheers. I had the heads on Ebay..... for ages, as won't use them, not as safe as the new style. I was a bit shocked and surprised..... just sold them £175 the pair, won't buy new heads as can't afford them or justify their purchase, just at the moment 

Have a set of Axminster scribing gouges to match the moulds on house door stiles and a moulding head and a set of moulding cutters for the spindle. Was keeping an eye on Ebay for the Whitehill style heads, or Leitz heads,if they could take scribing cutters. Needless to say they hardly ever come up, if at all. That said a set of new style Whitehill ones did come up on Ebay a few weeks ago, fair enough would come in handy for future use, if half price of new. Buyer bid less than £100 new for pair..... no thanks


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## pollys13 (29 Mar 2019)

tomatwark":3clw5awh said:


> Put new belts on.
> 
> They will only be a few quid.
> I would take out the top spindle and replace the bearings while you have it this far apart.
> Once you have done it up you probably will never need to remove the heads again.



seller described item, " " This machine has been comprehensively stripped, thoroughly cleaned, serviced and reassembled and supplied in perfect working order. " I also asked for possible future reference and he told me Belt size SPZ 710, spindle bearings SKF 6205 ZZ.

I suppose I could tell if bearings are sound by the sound of it running? Though as have sold heads now and not buying safer style Whitehill heads that might not be so easy. How seller described machine assume bearings are ok.


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## tomatwark (29 Mar 2019)

Are you saying you bought a perfectly good machine and then sold the heads off it without buying a new set.
Therefore making the machine unusable.
Why?
Other thing to note that if you buy whitehill heads, you won't need a 30mm socket.
Whitehill heads come with their own special nuts, if buying second hand make sure they are with them.
Otherwise you will need to go to whitehill for them.


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## pollys13 (29 Mar 2019)

tomatwark":352fcig8 said:


> Are you saying you bought a perfectly good machine and then sold the heads off it without buying a new set.
> Therefore making the machine unusable.
> Why?
> Other thing to note that if you buy whitehill heads, you won't need a 30mm socket.
> ...


Are you saying you bought a perfectly good machine and then sold the heads off it without buying a new set.
Therefore making the machine unusable.
Why?

The machine was available at a very good price and I'm not going to be using it just yet. I just requested to cancel the 30mm socket, thanks for that. Do the Whitehill nuts require a special socket?


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## katellwood (29 Mar 2019)

tomatwark":2yde6kd6 said:


> Other thing to note that if you buy whitehill heads, you won't need a 30mm socket.
> Whitehill heads come with their own special nuts, if buying second hand make sure they are with them.
> Otherwise you will need to go to whitehill for them.



are you sure about this, I've seen photo's of alternative fastenings however then seen to facilitate fitting a 30mm bore with a top inset block to a 20mm shaft.

The photo's on Whitehills website do not show a special nut either in the main picture or in the block spares list

I have a 30mm block which I would like to fit to my multico if these nuts exist i would be interested in sourcing one


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## pollys13 (29 Mar 2019)

Seller replied to late to cancel dispatch of the 30mm socket as sent earlier in morning. So perhaps I should keep the socket?Ordered a 100mm x 9mm length of silver steel to act as lock on spindle. What torque should I apply to nuts?


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## merlin (29 Mar 2019)

You will still need your new socket as you will use the original nuts.

Merlin


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## pollys13 (29 Mar 2019)

merlin":2e6u0qgp said:


> You will still need your new socket as you will use the original nuts.
> 
> Merlin


OK thanks.


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## tomatwark (30 Mar 2019)

The blocks I bought from Whitehill 13 years ago for the TM3 I had then had a threaded reducing sleeve that you tightened with a 2 pronged spanner. ( these block were still modern legal limited ones)

Looking at Whitehills sight I think they may now be bored the correct size with a recess for the nut.

This means if buying new you will need the socket, but if buying second hand, you will need to check if they blocks are like the ones I had and if they have the reducers, as they will be only available from Whitehill if they still make them.


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## Trevanion (30 Mar 2019)

pollys13":1whhij1z said:


> I had the heads on Ebay..... for ages, as won't use them, not as safe as the new style. I was a bit shocked and surprised..... just sold them £175 the pair, won't buy new heads as can't afford them or justify their purchase, just at the moment



The old heads would've been just as safe as the new heads, You're not exactly putting your fingers anywhere near the cutter blocks and so long as you set them up correctly there really isn't anything to go wrong. The older heads tended to take material off cleaner and faster than the carbide insert style, in my experience anyway. From memory, if you do install the newer style heads the whole machine has to be adjusted and shimmed for squareness as the machine pretty much depended on you being able to set the knives square to the carriage in the older style blocks, since there is no angle adjustability in the newer blocks you have to shim the mounting on the column to get them square cutting. It's a real pain in the buttocks job.

Good luck finding any secondhand Multico blocks, they never really tend to come off the machine once they go on so you really only rarely see them for sale once in a blue moon. If you ever actually want to use the machine you might need to dig deep and buy new ones, at least you've covered 90% of the cost for one block by selling the original blocks, I've seen the original blocks sell for as little as £25 for the pair so you did pretty good out of them.


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## tomatwark (30 Mar 2019)

I had to shim my machine when I fitted the new ones, as for the cut having used both I would agree.

But at least the new ones are a lot easier to change the knives.

I don't really understand why Pollys took the old heads off his, it is not like he is running a business, but each to their own.


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## mikefab (30 Mar 2019)

I have a spare Whitehall head for a multico tenoner. Not sure if it is a top or a bottom head - it came as part of a job lot. PM me if you are interested. I prob won't be in the workshop until Monday.


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## pollys13 (30 Mar 2019)

I don't really understand why Pollys took the old heads off his, it is not like he is running a business, but each to their own.

Scribing cutters I've only seen ones for the old blocks once.


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## pollys13 (30 Mar 2019)

mikefab":1dzqo5ei said:


> I have a spare Whitehall head for a multico tenoner. Not sure if it is a top or a bottom head - it came as part of a job lot. PM me if you are interested. I prob won't be in the workshop until Monday.


PM sent.


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## pollys13 (30 Mar 2019)

Thanks for the input everyone. When I come to set the machine up for use. Will come back on the forum and ask those in the know for a few pointers.
Cheers


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## pollys13 (14 May 2019)

mikefab":99gv4oqf said:


> I have a spare Whitehall head for a multico tenoner. Not sure if it is a top or a bottom head - it came as part of a job lot. PM me if you are interested. I prob won't be in the workshop until Monday.


Hi Mike,
I have sent PMs to you I think the messaging system may have a glitch. You replied to one PM saying price you wanted. I replied fine, asking to send a PayPal address to make the payment. No reply to that, this evening received a PM from you. Yes still interested, is it a top or bottom head?
Peter.


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## Ymrugby (22 Jul 2019)

tomatwark":2y3ptits said:


> Put new belts on.
> 
> They will only be a few quid.
> I would take out the top spindle and replace the bearings while you have it this far apart.
> Once you have done it up you probably will never need to remove the heads again.


Hi where did you get the new belts from for this can’t seem to find them


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## Trevanion (22 Jul 2019)

Ymrugby":1unrbfn7 said:


> Hi where did you get the new belts from for this can’t seem to find them



Assuming your machine uses the SPZ710 belts:

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p20218898/SPZ710-Gates-Delta-Narrow-SPZ-Section-V-Belt-(Uniset-Match)/product_info.html


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