# Stop end or through mortice?



## RichD1 (3 Aug 2021)

Would the use of a stop end mortice be better in a an opening window casement to protect the end from water ingress over the years.

Richard


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## baldkev (5 Aug 2021)

Probably..... but you'd have to be accurate.... im not a joiner, but the joiners i work with use wedges in their tennons. It is of course possible to have blind wedges, but you need to be accurate. Of course theres a lot of great adhesives now so wedges may well be less necessary?

Are they painted or stained? Generally the best thing is to make sure customers understand the need to stay on top of decorating, which is key to longevity


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## eribaMotters (5 Aug 2021)

Over nearly 40 years of making doors and windows I have not used through mortices. I initially used cascamite, but moved to Titebond 3. I have had no joint failures so will continue with this practice.

Colin


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## Doug71 (6 Aug 2021)

I would suggest you are over thinking it and will have problems with water ingress behind the putty or through the front joints long before the tenon ends.


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## Cooper (6 Aug 2021)

When I did "O" level 50 years ago we were taught, through M&Ts where there was likely to be moisture, as they enable the joint to dry. Stopped mortises were supposed to retain moisture and suitable for furniture and internal work. I have followed that advice making the occasional replacement sash and casement. My problem has not been the joints but the poorer quality of timber, compared to the 130 year old wood I replaced, some has not lasted 30 years!


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## Jacob (6 Aug 2021)

Cooper said:


> When I did "O" level 50 years ago we were taught, through M&Ts where there was likely to be moisture, as they enable the joint to dry. Stopped mortises were supposed to retain moisture and suitable for furniture and internal work. I have followed that advice making the occasional replacement sash and casement. My problem has not been the joints but the poorer quality of timber, compared to the 130 year old wood I replaced, some has not lasted 30 years!


Not the timber it's the paint, or the design details.


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## johnnyb (6 Aug 2021)

I've got no idea about longevity re rot but through tenons allow wedging which with a bit of glue will stop the door from sagging. look at it like this it's not possible to make a tenon a perfect up down fit its always a bit slack. with blind m and ts these will have space above and below and if the glue fails the door will sag. wedges banged into through tenons( the ends not in the tenon that's for show)are solid and under many kilos of wedging action which can make the bond extremely strong.


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## Jacob (6 Aug 2021)

johnnyb said:


> I've got no idea about longevity re rot but through tenons allow wedging which with a bit of glue will stop the door from sagging. look at it like this it's not possible to make a tenon a perfect up down fit its always a bit slack. with blind m and ts these will have space above and below and if the glue fails the door will sag. wedges banged into through tenons( the ends not in the tenon that's for show)are solid and under many kilos of wedging action which can make the bond extremely strong.


Well yes through tenon with wedges (either side, not in the tenon) very strong tried and tested joint. Rot not a problem. Stopped mortice you'd need to draw bore and still not get anything near as solid.


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## johnnyb (6 Aug 2021)

I've tried to dismantle old doors and the tenon cheeks are easy to loose. I've often totally failed to get the wedge separated from the top / bottom of the tenon. and that with animal glue!


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## RichD1 (7 Aug 2021)

Thanks for all the advice guys. I decided to stick with 'through' as I've never tried a 'stop' before. Also used Lumberjack poly for the first time so hopefully will provide a bit more joint protection.

Richard


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## heimlaga (21 Aug 2021)

Sounds good.

When repairing and copying old windows I have found that through mortises on average last longer than stopped mortises. At least in our climate. Therefore I use through mortises whenever I can on new casements.

In my oppinion small casements are better left unglued and fastened together with wooden pegs instead. Easier to repair. Large casements or casements for heavy glass packages must be glued to carry the weight.


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