# Website design help plz



## chippy1970 (28 Nov 2009)

Hi all, can anyone help I bought my own website a few months ago as advised by a few people here but since then I have been waiting and waiting for my brother to publish my website but still nothing :x :x 

I thought I would have another go at doing it myself, I understand the basics but I want to put a slideshow of my work or photo album on the site whats the best way to do it ?

I tried the basic online website designer that was rubbish, now I am trying Microsoft Publisher (Office 2007) which I already have I can get the basic design but cannot find an easy way to make a photo album/slideshow.

Any hints and tips are welcome thanks


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## matt (28 Nov 2009)

I'm fairly certain I posted some links on a thread sometime ago to online photo galleries that can be incorporated in to sites. Basically you do not need to reinvent the wheel - there's pre-built engines to do this sort of thing. When I have more time I'll see if I can find the links again (nudge me via PM if I've not posted something in a couple of days).


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## chippy1970 (28 Nov 2009)

Cheers Matt


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## Daven (28 Nov 2009)

I use Evrsoft First Page free here

It has some scripts which you can use and is as good if not better than MS Publisher IMO.

HTH

Dave


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## chippy1970 (29 Nov 2009)

thanks Dave I will give it a go.


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## wizer (30 Nov 2009)

If you are still struggling and want something simple, stylish and cheap, let me know.


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## BigShot (1 Dec 2009)

Chippy - have you looked into Joomla?
Try http://www.jhost.co.uk/jhost/ to see if you like the way it works - i've had a tinker and it seems reasonably simple.

Joomla is a "content management system" - it makes the pages based on what you want to put up and the template/theme (how it looks) you choose and you only need to worry about what goes on the site (text, pictures and the likes).

Worth a try at least - especially as you can try it for free.


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## chippy1970 (1 Dec 2009)

Cheers Tom and Bigshot,

A friend of mine runs the ticketing computers/software for BA and got someone there to give me a call he sets up sites for people and he's gonna email me over some prices etc. Trouble is I am trying to do it on the cheap as works quiet at the moment so if I can DIY it with a bit of help it would be great.

I will give JOOMLA a go, normally I am a whizz on a PC but none of these website designing programs do what I want :lol:


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## wizer (1 Dec 2009)

No No No

Joomla is wrong for what you want to do. I take it you want a website similar to BradNaylor? Business website with static content and some sort of gallery or slideshow to display your work. There's no need to use a CMS for this. It's completely overkill. If I was you, I'd take some time and learn how to write HTML and CSS. It won't take you long and you'll forever be in control of your website, for nothing.

A lot of the WYSIWYG web design programmes are completely useless. Unless you want to go for something like DreamWeaver then forget it.


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## BigShot (1 Dec 2009)

Gotta be said, I'm inclined to agree with Tom to a point.

CMS is overkill for a LOT of websites - but as a DIY thing they "do the job" and if the DIY options you've tried so far haven't worked out it's worth a try.

Building your own from scratch may well do the job and isn't all that hard to do something simple... plus you should be able to do it more efficiently (in terms of the amount of code used to make the page look how you want) than an automated thing (like dreamweaver, joomla and so on) which means a faster loading website.

Personally I'd still look into joomla and see how you find it, if only to get a presence online that isn't just an "under construction" page (speaking of which - don't use "under construction" pages - either the page is complete, up and available, or it's on your computer being worked on. "Under construction" just looks bad - yes, even with the flashing orange lights, "men at work signs" and those yellow and black chevrons. 

Of course, learning CSS, HTML and other web-related trickery can naturally lead on to a side income if you so desire.


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## wizer (1 Dec 2009)

I couldn't imagine building a website with Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress and not knowing basic HTML and CSS.


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## jlawrence (1 Dec 2009)

I'd agree with Tom 100% on this. A CMS is complete overkill for running this sort of site. Also I'd add that there are often a lot of parts to look after in a CMS and someone most people wanting a business site are unlikely to get around to installing security patches into a CMS.
For a small site there's no reason why it shouldn't come in pretty cheap - certainly less than the cost of a decent editor (Dreamweaver).

If your host doesn't support Frontpage extensions then forget front page - the HTML it creates is abysmal.

I'm sure a quick search on Google would bring up a few options for a slide show - somewhere on webmonkey there'll likely be a half decent tutorial about it.


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## Tackit (1 Dec 2009)

Can I add that i agree with other points above on this; that a site with CMS is over the top and unnessecary and MS Frontpage is also awful and regarly creates very amatuerish websites.

On the slideshow question I have succesfully and easily used Lightbox in the past and like the look and feel of what you end up with. It is a javascript app so some knowledge would be useful but there are relatively detailed instructions on how to put it together

Cheers


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## matt (1 Dec 2009)

I could not find the links that I referred to earlier nor can I remember what they were. I knew a geek who wrote a plug-in for Flickr to run a slideshow but can't find details of that either. It will come back to me - it's just a case of when!

In the meantime... have a go with some HTML and CSS - you may surprise yourself.

I see your hosted by Free Virtual Servers which means you have a single MySQL database and supported install of WordPress (check out your control panel). This may be your friend under the circumstances. WordPress is dead simple and you can create pages rather than limit yourself to a blog style. FVS also seem to have a free website builder too - no idea what it's like but no harm in having a play.

UPDATE: Just visited the FVS control panel... Have a rummage in the Scripts section. You have Coppermine in there under Add-ons which is gallery script. You also have Joomla under the One Click Scripts.


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## Sgian Dubh (1 Dec 2009)

chippy1970":1tcre0qv said:


> I have been waiting and waiting for my brother to publish my website but still nothing
> 
> I thought I would have another go at doing it myself,



I rebuilt my website from scratch about a year ago with Kompozer, which is a free download available here: http://kompozer.net/ It took me about 4 or 5 weeks of intermittently playing around following the built in instructions before I got the gist of it. I'd never done anything like this before and had no knowledge of HTML or anything else regarding website building.

Nowadays I maintain my website using a mixture of mostly Kompozer, but increasingly I find I use Dreamweaver CS3 on a fairly regular basis too; Dreamweaver came with PhotoShop and a bunch of other stuff. I can't help you with slide shows and the like. I wanted a simple to navigate website for visitors without a lot of frills, bells, whistles and whizz-bangery that annoys the hell out of me on many web sites. You'll find a link to my website at the endof this post if you want to see how it looks. I could have made the pages look very different, but the way they are is the way I'd wanted the thing to appear for a good few years before I got round to doing the job myself.

Once I got the knack of Kompozer I built about 5 templates and now I use those templates when I want to add a new page to the website. I can make a reasonably small number of changes to an existing page and have it loaded in half an hour to an hour. A whole new page may take me an hour to half a day, all depending on the complexity of the content. Sometimes it takes me longer to get the images ready in PhotoShop, and prepare the text in MS Word than it does to make a page with those images inserted, along with the text which I add by passing it through MS Notepad to get rid of a lot of the stray formatting that text from MS Word seems to add to web pages. Slainte.


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## Chris Knight (2 Dec 2009)

I have built several websites using various tools but these days wouldn't bother with any of them even though some of the tools now available make it very easy. Instead, I'd use this service or one like it.

http://www.squarespace.com/

It's not just the initial design and set-up that is a hassle but the ongoing maintenance (and that can include coping with all sorts of stuff over time such as hackers, screwed-up updates and so on). Indeed, I have just about given up on the few sites I still keep for these reasons.


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## chippy1970 (2 Dec 2009)

wizer":2p1o1hqb said:


> No No No
> 
> Joomla is wrong for what you want to do. I take it you want a website similar to BradNaylor? Business website with static content and some sort of gallery or slideshow to display your work. There's no need to use a CMS for this. It's completely overkill. If I was you, I'd take some time and learn how to write HTML and CSS. It won't take you long and you'll forever be in control of your website, for nothing.
> 
> A lot of the WYSIWYG web design programmes are completely useless. Unless you want to go for something like DreamWeaver then forget it.



I downloaded JOOMLA and you have to install it on your server so I didnt bother I went back to using the online website builder that comes with my hosting package which is ok but not great. My brother has Dreamweaver but he lives up in the Midlands so I cant pop round and have a play with it.


Something along these lines is what I am after http://www.oryxdesign.co.uk/Oryx_Design ... _Home.html

I dont know if that will work with my 100Mb hosting package. I just want a homepage with contact details about us page and a gallery.


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## wizer (2 Dec 2009)

You are not going to get that level of design from a web design package. Certainly not the one from you're host is providing. It just won't happen. It's not that easy. Think about your business. If someone with no experience of building kitchens told you they was going to build one from scratch using stuff from homebase, you'd tell them that the result would be bad to mediocre at best.

Simon used a web developer to get the look he wanted.


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## chippy1970 (2 Dec 2009)

wizer":g4pxs0jf said:


> You are not going to get that level of design from a web design package. Certainly not the one from you're host is providing. It just won't happen. It's not that easy. Think about your business. If someone with no experience of building kitchens told you they was going to build one from scratch using stuff from homebase, you'd tell them that the result would be bad to mediocre at best.
> 
> Simon used a web developer to get the look he wanted.



Your right I thought I might be dreaming but at least if I can do something that looks ok and is easy to navigate then I will be happy.

EDIT: just got the site up and running have a look see what you think its on the link below this post. I know its not great but I built it with the WYSIWYG program online.


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## grafter (2 Dec 2009)

you might want to take a look at tumblr blog - i have used it for two sites, its really easy to use supports pictures, audio and video. All the coding is done, you can tweak or just leave it. 

Adding content is easy and can even done via email - you can also use your own domain name

best of all its *free....*


also it support google anayltics - really useful to see how many vistors/ where from etc etc

check it out and take a look at a couple of examples: www.tumblr.com

for photos and sideshows, you might be better with a flickr account and link your site to this - tumblr can do this with ease - you may want to use a lightweight flickr viewer like this: http://ihardlyknowher.com/

there is no real need to throw a load of money at it now - use flickr, tumblr etc and your site will look great

just a couple of thoughts


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

It's not come out great Chris to be honest.

If you don't want to pay for someone to do it because you want to retain control, then I strongly advise you to use the link Chris posted above. I went off and had a look at it last night and it really is very good. The only other way you are going to get the same sort of results is to buy a very high end software package and even then I don't think it will be that 'easy'.


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## chippy1970 (3 Dec 2009)

wizer":tj4b8kl6 said:


> It's not come out great Chris to be honest.
> 
> If you don't want to pay for someone to do it because you want to retain control, then I strongly advise you to use the link Chris posted above. I went off and had a look at it last night and it really is very good. The only other way you are going to get the same sort of results is to buy a very high end software package and even then I don't think it will be that 'easy'.



It did only take a few minutes so Im not surprised its not great but I can tinker with it now. Trouble with the online program I used is that you cannot change everything so I will have a look at the other one suggested and see what its like. Its the old thing that you get what you pay for but at the moment I cant pay for anything  .


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## chippy1970 (3 Dec 2009)

grafter":2uasu0fb said:


> you might want to take a look at tumblr blog - i have used it for two sites, its really easy to use supports pictures, audio and video. All the coding is done, you can tweak or just leave it.
> 
> Adding content is easy and can even done via email - you can also use your own domain name
> 
> ...



Will this work with my current host or is this seperate ? I ask because I bought my domain name for 2 years and got free hosting for life from www.freevirtualservers.com as recommended on this forum.


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## grafter (3 Dec 2009)

chippy1970":agca0odh said:


> Will this work with my current host or is this seperate ? I ask because I bought my domain name for 2 years and got free hosting for life from www.freevirtualservers.com as recommended on this forum.



you use the tumblr servers to host but use your own domain name - its very easy to set up 

open an account and have a go - if you like it then host the blog at your domain - its free nothing to lose

from tumblr site:
http://www.tumblr.com/docs/custom_domains

see this too:
http://www.tumblr.com/why-tumblr[/quote]

ps: looking at virtual servers - the bandwidth is only 100mb per month - which is not that many vistors before your site exceeds the limit - you will not have this problem with tumblr


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## big soft moose (3 Dec 2009)

wizer":3l130wzy said:


> You are not going to get that level of design from a web design package.



I dont really see why - there's nothing in oryx's site that couldnt be done with something like serif web plus X2

good design is about the eye of the person putting it together not what package they use - and someone with good graphic sensibilities can do better with a relatively cheap design package than someone without can do with dreamweaver

look at how many awful (particularly flash heavy) sites there are created by supposed proffesionals.

that said i do agree with tom that you aren't going to get a site like that using frontpage or a templated freebie from your web host.


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## mickthetree (3 Dec 2009)

if you dont have any budget, then you are going to have to compromise on design, layout and functionality.

If you really have no budget at all, then get yourself some free hosting, get a free template and keep everything as simple as possible in terms of design.

Something like this

Use a free program like this to put some pages together using that template.

That program probably has some templates built into it alrteady.

Just keep things really simple and basic and use the best quality photos you can. BUT make sure you resize photos before you put them on your site or theywill take ages to download.


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## chippy1970 (3 Dec 2009)

mickthetree":siniavuu said:


> if you dont have any budget, then you are going to have to compromise on design, layout and functionality.
> 
> If you really have no budget at all, then get yourself some free hosting, get a free template and keep everything as simple as possible in terms of design.
> 
> ...



As I said I have a domain name and free hosting already I just need a good website to use with it. I might try Dreamweaver out maybe I can borrow it off my brother.


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

The last option for you, is a couple of books and a few late nights. Micks idea is the best one. Don't turnip about building from scratch when some geek out there has done it for you. Find a free CSS website (or even pay for one of the lost cost ones) and then learn how to manipulate them using a basic HTML editor (like MS Notepad).

I honestly don't think you are ever going to produce the website you want (and one that's effective) by trying to cut corners, hoping that an editor will do the donkey work for you. If you take some time to understand the basic HTML and CSS commands then you can work out what is going wrong.

That's how I learned HTML\CSS\Javascript\PHP etc, all those years ago (14 scarily).


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## Steve Jones (3 Dec 2009)

Chris,

Just my humble opinion regarding dreamweaver.

I did 2 courses on how to use dreamweaver at a local college last year, and quite frankly I still can't use it !
When the courses ended I got talking to a customer who works in IT about it and he told me that there are far easier programs out the to work with than dreamweaver and quite honestly I got fed up and stopped trying to use.

Steve


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

In my company (largest media website in the world), Dreamweaver is used not to _create _sites, but for maintenance. They use it to format web content and check compliance, aswell as for page management. It's only used in certain pockets of the company. The rest all prefer simple text based editors. Every dept. seem to have their preference but they all seem to do the same sort of thing. I use one called EditPlus. I've no idea if there are better options out there, this does all I need. Life is much easier when you understand what code makes the thing happen the way you want it to. As part of my job (senior support) I had to do extensive training in lots of apps including dreamweaver. It's only the last 4yrs that I'd consider actually using DW to scratch build and I'd only do it if I was going to hand over the site to someone else to manage once complete.


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## matt (3 Dec 2009)

Don't put stock in Dreamweaver. I use it for hand-coding some parts of pages because it has some handy features but never bother with the WSIWIG side of things. I also use a number of other apps for hand-coding too. Have a go with WordPress.


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## chippy1970 (3 Dec 2009)

I did actually try Dreamweaver about 2 years ago I think and didnt have a clue what to do.

I had a quick fiddle with Coffee cup html editor as recommended here and it seems good. I have been trying to work out the html coding and most of it does look quiet straight forward. I have worked out how you change all the text headers etc and started trying to work out how to add images.


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

The problem you are having is that you are trying to design a page like a Word or Publisher document and the web doesn't work like that. Hence you difficulties with dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is not intended to make website without coding knowledge. I really think you need to find a book, even if it's one of the Dummies range.


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## Oryxdesign (3 Dec 2009)

chippy1970":cbcqb5te said:


> Something along these lines is what I am after http://www.oryxdesign.co.uk/Oryx_Design ... _Home.html
> 
> I dont know if that will work with my 100Mb hosting package. I just want a homepage with contact details about us page and a gallery.



Yes it will, ours is built in iweb and hosted on my mobileme account.

Sorry Tom I didn't know that this was your expertise, I certainly would have contacted you about the other site I showed you last time you were down.


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

I do a bit. Not so much now. I'm at a loose end for a few weeks so a little job like this would be interesting.

A big job like your other site Simon probably would have been too much for me to take on to be honest. I'm not geared up to offer continuing support either.


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## Oryxdesign (4 Dec 2009)

Oh good i don't feel so bad now. I think it's important to be able to update your own website rather than have to rely on someone else, my wife does our updates so I only have to rely on her!


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## matt (4 Dec 2009)

Oryxdesign":giq5ftx8 said:


> Oh good i don't feel so bad now. I think it's important to be able to update your own website rather than have to rely on someone else, my wife does our updates so I only have to rely on her!


Therin lies the reason why a suitable content 
management system can be ideal. I have one that I built for an antiques business (all using free tech) that would probably be a good fit but, like Tom, I'm no longer building sites and can't offer support.


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## grafter (4 Dec 2009)

Oryxdesign":2hmrenrw said:


> Oh good i don't feel so bad now. I think it's important to be able to update your own website rather than have to rely on someone else, my wife does our updates so I only have to rely on her!


#

exactly - do you want to be learning html etc or actually writing copy for the site and getting stuff out there - go with a blog (tumblr or similar) it a doddle to update (via login, e-mail or even phone) easy to customise and will have no bandwidth problems.


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## rjb (5 Dec 2009)

I've used an early version of Dreamweaver for a number of years, but recently decided I needed to upgrade to a more up to date program. I tried free trial versions of several programs before deciding on Microsoft Expression Web. This is similar to Dreamweaver CS4, but I found it much more straight forward and simple to use. As has been mentioned previously, there is a learning curve with these programs and you do really need to understand the basics of CSS and HTML coding. Having said that, it's a lot faster and simpler than coding entirely by hand, especially if you're building a large site. I would highly recommend trying a trial version of Expression Web and I found that the quickest way to learn the basics was watching tutorial videos on youtube. There are loads of tutorials available and I found the videos really helpful.

Regarding the slideshow, there are loads of free scripts available if you search on google and they usually have instructions and are simple to set up. It's really just a matter of looking at some until you find a layout and functionality that you like.

Richard.


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## chippy1970 (5 Dec 2009)

cheers Richard


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## artHarris (11 Dec 2009)

Nobody has mentioned Freeway - it is so comprehensive and yet simple to use. ( but Mac only, I think) Not freebie, but the non-pro version isn't expensive and did everything I needed for a multipage web-site ( not in the area of woodworking - that has to be done - when I have the time!)


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## woodworker123 (16 Dec 2009)

If you have limited design skills and knowledge of the web why are you trying to create one in dreamweaver . The best option to use is wordpress, there are some amazing themes out there and it is a lot more simpler to use then creating one from scratch.


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## Dibs-h (21 Dec 2009)

chippy1970":1cvhmm6n said:


> I did actually try Dreamweaver about 2 years ago I think and didnt have a clue what to do.
> 
> I had a quick fiddle with Coffee cup html editor as recommended here and it seems good. I have been trying to work out the html coding and most of it does look quiet straight forward. I have worked out how you change all the text headers etc and started trying to work out how to add images.



Rather than get bogged down with techo-babble - why don't you sit down and work out what you actually want it to look like? and behave like? 2 column or 3? Fixed width or not - if you know what I'm on about - good. If not you may want to have a Google on them. Or talk to someone who does.

Once you know what you want it to look like\behave - the technnical stuff can be overcome, either learnt (the hard and long way) or get someone to do it.

I suspect you are not only struggling with the tech side of it, but the design side of it too. 

If you have like a year or so - then DIY and read up like crazy. Don't have a yr or so of evenings\weekends - get someone in. 

Oh - Whilst Joomla and similar have their place - a 3 page site isn't it. There's been some fantastic advice - ,

- go get a free template (MickTheTree)
- get someone in. Tom's right on this one.

I went from a surfer to being able to do a fully CSS and XHTML compliant site\s along with lightboxes and all sorts - but it took a long time. The technical aspects were relatively straight-forward, the design aspects where not. That's what you pay a designer for! I don't think it's any different for woodwork. But I work in IT and design stuff and code, so it's probably easier for me (sometimes).

Anyone can cut M&T's, but a designer can make a collection of them into a beautiful piece of furniture!


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## wizer (21 Dec 2009)

Chippy, if you still want this doing, PM me. I have an idea.


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