# tool chest



## martyn2 (14 Oct 2005)

This may be a strange request but here goes,

I have always gone for the cheap and cheerful tools, I use to move a round a lot and they get lost or disappear,  But I seem to have got my roots now and I am starting to get together some decent power tools (mostly second hand or at auction ).

But what I am sadly lacking is a selection of good quality but not going to cost be an arm and a leg hand tools such as chisels, plains, squares, saws etc and I have read and seen that most of you while having good power tools still depend on your hand tools so much what I would like to know is what in your opinion would be a good basic tool chest to put together and what brands. A resent trip to Philly’s workshop(many thanks) made me more aware of this (you can’t blame him for this) although as i said earlier i was picking this up across the forum 

Many thanks as usual 

Martyn

sorry should have put this in hand tools move if needed


----------



## tim (14 Oct 2005)

> A*resent* trip to Philly’s workshop(many thanks) made me more aware of this (you can’t blame him for this)



Maybe a typo but probably accurate as well!  :lol: :lol: 

Cheers

T


----------



## Alf (14 Oct 2005)

martyn2":30oakmrd said:


> ...not going to cost be an arm and a leg hand tools such as chisels, plains, squares, saws etc


Before we get carried away, define the value of your arms and legs 



martyn2":30oakmrd said:


> I would like to know is what in your opinion would be a good basic tool chest to put together and what brands.


Ahhh, the $64,000 question. I would assume you're looking at hand tools to compliment the taild demons, rather than turning into a rabid neanderthal and felling your own trees and so forth? Might have to give that one some thought. And wait for everyone else's thoughts in the mean time. :wink: 



martyn2":30oakmrd said:


> A resent trip to Philly’s workshop(many thanks) made me more aware of this (you can’t blame him for this)


Yes you can. And indeed I'd argue that you should. :lol:



martyn2":30oakmrd said:


> sorry should have put this in hand tools move if needed


No worries. No sooner thought than done. More or less.

Cheers, Alf


----------



## mahking51 (14 Oct 2005)

martyn2 - You poor sod! Fancy starting out in Philly's workshop :roll: Not a good place to start! In fact almost anywhere else would be better, trust me... I know.  Did you at least have a good place to sit while you pondered your impending financial ruin? Not a bad old chair is it?


----------



## Alf (14 Oct 2005)

mahking51":2li6rhxg said:


> Did you at least have a good place to sit while you pondered your impending financial ruin? Not a bad old chair is it?


You haven't sat on The Chair?! :shock: Did he glue a polishing cloth on your posterior first, just to get you to do some of the work? :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## martyn2 (14 Oct 2005)

yes i sat in "the" chair and it was good  and it was,nt a polising cloth it was more well sand paper ?  yes i am looking for some simple but evective tools but i do have a sycomor tress that need pruning  

martyn


----------



## ByronBlack (16 Oct 2005)

Martyn, after coming back from a recent course, I could definitly recommend the following set of tools:

Marking & Layout
- Marking gauge
- Panel Gauge
- Cutting Gauge
- Straight Edge, and 6" Engineers Sqaure (Groz make a good one)
- Scalpel

Chisels
- Bevel Edged Chisels (I have the Kirschen 1101's from Axminster £55)
- Mortice Chisels ( I have a couple of Sorby's which are nice)
- A Skew Chisel - useful for cleaning the snot out of dovetails

Planes
- Apron Plane (My most used tool. I use the Lie-Nielsen Bronze Apron)
- Block Plane (Veritas seem good)
- Jack (5 1/5)
- No.7 could be useful
- Smoothing plane would also be a nice addition.

Others
- A tenon/dovetail saw (I have a jap saw from axminster)
- A Crosscut Saw
- A Mallet
- Sharpening Stones

I used most of these tools on my recent course, and would find it hard to work without most of them, although the planes I used the most were a block plane, 5 1/5 and a Record T5 (for shooting)


----------



## Chris Knight (16 Oct 2005)

More of those 5 1/5 planes - where do I find one? :lol:


----------



## mahking51 (16 Oct 2005)

Alf
I, too have sat on The Chair! It is somewhat snug for my generous dimensions and had a bad habit of coming with me when I stood up! :lol: 
At least Philly now knows that it is well made and strong.
One can only praise his devotion to sanding and polishing it must take a lot of hours.
Regards
Martin


----------



## martyn2 (17 Oct 2005)

> "ByronBlack"Martyn, after coming back from a recent course, I could definitly recommend the following set of tools:



Thanks for the list was the course good ? with tools 2005 coming up and christmas i will have to put the list in to pratices if any one else can recommend anything please let me know 

thanks martyn


----------



## Alf (17 Oct 2005)

Well I thought we might have had a few lists by now, but obviously everyone's too shy. Still have no idea of the budget so might have to get a bit long-winded. All right, a bit _more_ long-winded than usual... :roll: I'll pinch Byron's helpful list as a starting framework.

Marking & Layout
- Marking gauge - check. I think I'd go with a wheel type myself (Veritas - or Titemark if I had a Lottery win), but that's a personal choice thing, and also more expensive than an ordinary wooden one with a pin. Or you could make your own, to help the budget - which applies to all gauges really.
- Panel Gauge - been on my list of things to make for an age, but so far I haven't needed one. Something to make yourself anyway, so it won't eat your budget.
- Cutting Gauge - depends on the terminology. If it's genuinely a gauge for cutting, dinna bother. If it's for cross-grain marking, tune up your marking gauge and it won't be a problem IMO. But you'll probably want more than one gauge anyway, so what the heck. All the experts seem to advocate getting the cheap gauges without fancy woods and brass btw; dunno if any one make is better than the others. Might find secondhand is as good as any.
- Straight Edge, and 6" Engineers Sqaure (Groz make a good one) - Decent steel rule (anti-glare/satin finish if you've any sense) and certainly go for Engineer's squares over the fancy wooden stock ones; much more accurate. A combination square can fulfill a multitude of tasks, if you get a reasonably good quality one. Don't know which is a good middle-of-the-road make; the one I got from Axminster has changed byt the looks. There's a lot to be said for making your own wooden straight edges, as they're lighter and easier to manhandle - and one day I mean even find the tuit to do it...
- Scalpel - Or any knife you find comfortable for marking with. I find a scapel a bit too sharp, in that the line is too fine so you often can't see it. Don't ask me, I still haven't found a marking knife I'm really happy with.
Sliding bevel
Mortise gauge - anyone have an opinion on a good one?

Chisels
- Bevel Edged Chisels (I have the Kirschen 1101's from Axminster £55) - or a bit of a step up from them would be either the Ashley or Ray Iles chisels. Or Japanese chisels, which don't get mentioned much these days so I thought I would, are quite a good way to get a good chisel for sensible money. <cheap shill>I've got a set of four, hardly used, I'm looking to off-load  </cs>
- Mortice Chisels ( I have a couple of Sorby's which are nice) - Depends on whether you intend to start doing mortises by hand. On the whole I'd say leave them for now, unless you know you're going to use them. Even then you can do a lot with ordinary chisels. Be wary of Sorbys, whatever you do; sometimes they can be good, but sometimes they can be truly awful. It's a bit of a lottery. I'd go for secondhand for mortise chisels I think, anyway.
- A Skew Chisel - useful for cleaning the snot out of dovetails - get any old chisel and grind your own; it's not a demanding task as far as edge retention is concerned, so you can save a bit of dosh.

Planes
- Apron Plane (My most used tool. I use the Lie-Nielsen Bronze Apron)
- Block Plane (Veritas seem good) - do a search for block planes on the forum, and you'll get more opinions than you want. You don't need both to start with though. 
- Jack (5 1/5) - take a look at the current thread on Plane Advice
- No.7 could be useful - indeed, but if your jointing requirements aren't particularly long, the #5.5 size plane will do the job. So no rush.
- Smoothing plane would also be a nice addition. Again, no rush if you invest in one *good quality* jack - it can do extra duty as a panel plane without too much angst. And act as a guide to performance when/if you come to tune up other, secondhand planes too...
Rebate plane of some sort - shoulder, rebate block, whatever. Yeah, so technically you can clean up with a chisel etc. But when you're starting it's likely you'll need _more_ help in cleaning up your joints while having _least_ skill with the chisel... Consider a skew wooden rebate plane; very handy planes, and I keep forgetting to suggest them. #-o

Others
- A tenon/dovetail saw (I have a jap saw from axminster) - Japanese is probably the easiest way to get a working saw cheaply. Many people find they want to upgrade to a traditional western style though. If you want to go that route, essentially assume you'll have to learn a little about set and maybe do a little handle remodelling on any new one - unless you want to pay £90 or so. Old saws will need cleaning, sharpening etc, but if you're willing to do that, you can get really fine saws for very small _monetary_ outlay. Dunno if I have anything likely... :-k
- A Crosscut Saw - budget wise, you might just as well get a <cough>hardpoint saw</cough>. But should a nice handsaw, say 22" long panel saw, cross your path, it's nice to have. And you feel like you're doing things properly. :wink:
- A Mallet - How's the budget? Making a mallet's good fun...
- Sharpening Stones  Arguably should be at the beginning - using blunt hand tools is just depressing. And dangerous. Lots of discussion on this. ](*,) For initial cheap start up, Scary Sharp is hard to beat. Although waterstones aren't too bad either, as long as you have water in your w'shop. Don't be afraid to use a honing guide if you want to.

Now ideally I'd point you to one, all-encompassing, book on the subject too, but there really isn't one. I suppose the nearest to covering everything would be "Choosing and Using Hand Tools" by Andy Rae. Additionaly a huge number of tuning and fettling tips can be found in David Charlesworth's books - albeit perhaps slightly intimidating when you're first starting.  

Cheers, Alf


----------



## martyn2 (17 Oct 2005)

Thanks Alf looks like my list is going to be an arm and a leg and torso not to sure what my bugject is going to be yet (my much much BETTER [-o< half hasn't taken the hint yet ) as for the 

"Japanese chisels, which don't get mentioned much these days so I thought I would, are quite a good way to get a good chisel for sensible money. <cheap shill>I've got a set of four, hardly used, I'm looking to off-load </cs> might be intrested i have always like the feel of them PM me.

but many thanks for your input so far.

Martyn


----------



## frank (17 Oct 2005)

alf shame on you, your not only putting extra slippery grease on the slope your pushing the poor man down it as well.martyn can you get a second morgage :shock:all them tools and the tailed tools will cost a few bob :? :? 

frank


----------



## Alf (17 Oct 2005)

Who? Me? I'm saving him money! O 

Cheers, Alf 

Purveyor of old tools and books to the cognoscenti since 2003 - if you don't see what you want, it never hurts to ask. :wink: :lol:


----------



## ByronBlack (17 Oct 2005)

Martyn, to be fair, if you purchase wisely, you can build that tool-set for just the cost of a couple of good power-tools. You don't need to buy expensive planes, if your happy to re-tune older ones. For instance, I won a Record T5 for £26 on ebay recently, and there are a miriad of good quality planes for not a lot of dosh.

Most of the gauges you could make yourself, aswell as the mallet. Some waterstones won't cost the earth and there are loads of choices of chisels. So the morale of the story is; dig around the bootsales, ebay, second-hand tool dealers, and i'm sure you'll be able to build a good solid set of tools without gaining a second mortgage. 

Btw, the course was excellent and I'm now capable of tuning and sharpening and flattening chisels and planes to a high degree.


----------



## martyn2 (18 Oct 2005)

Thanks for all the help i can see this is going to be a slow process i do like going around the car boot sales and we have a sunday market at wimbourne that has second hand tools stalls as well as dorchester market, best I build the cabinet the try and fill it 

martyn


----------



## Anonymous (18 Oct 2005)

Hi everyone this is my first post so please be gentle - I see you are anyway.

I've just started a woodworking course at the local night school and LOVE it, so I am plotting how to continue. Trouble is I live in a small flat in central London, thus no garage or woodshop possibilities. I do have a balcony, which I am eyeing up. Hubbie says as long as the barbeque remains free to use...

For various reasons (like my other potential workspace being without power, a great dislike of loud noise, and fear of dying from sawdusty respiratory illness) I would prefer to use hand tools where possible. 

I want to make very simple small things like, probably, boxes at first. I also dream that I will make myself a desk (in my real life I am a student). Probably with current space restrictions that will not happen. Also, student = poor so I do not have the infinite budget. Like I would like to spend no more than £200 to kit myself out at a start.

What I've got so far:

- a set of 5 old sheffield (JH Swift & Sons, maybe 60s or 70s vintage) bevelled chisels - 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4 and 1". £11.50 from eBay incl shipping.

- a Stanley ratchet brace with about 5 bits, also vintage eBay, £11.65 incl shipping.

- a Record no 4 plane, also vintage eBay, £27.50 incl shipping 

- an old Stanley no 5 plane, also vintage eBay, £30 incl shipping

So that's like £85 already! Ack. And from what I can I also need all these other things like

- some kind of workbench. Ha. WorkMate. Although I am indeed scoping out a plan for a very compact one I can make myself. But I need a workbench to do it. Chicken ---> egg ---> chicken.
- combination square
- marking gauge and mortise gauge (or combination, I guess)
- mallet
- twelve billion clamps -- but really, how many should I get? I am baffled and confused by the infinite variety and astonished by the expense
- oh yeah. saws. I don't mind sharpening chisels and planes (I've tried the scary-sharp method and that does indeed get them sharp) - but saw teeth is too much. Plus again I'd need a workbench, and a special vise, and files and god knows what all. So I need some pretty good cheap saws, I'm not sure what kind.

Please help!

evie


----------



## trevtheturner (18 Oct 2005)

Hi evie,

Welcome to the Forum.

From what you have said, I think you are pretty much on the right track for starters. Your course tutor should be able to answer most of your questions regarding starter kit and give you good advice in the early stages.

You will find that we all have our own opinions on what is good/bad, necessary/unnecessary so try to avoid getting bogged down too much in technicalities of different kinds of tools - you could find yourself getting horribly confused! Having said that, there is a wealth of information on the UKworkshop forums on virtually every topic of woodworking. Try using the search button at the top and have a good read - but make sure you have plenty of time to spare to do it!

Other than that, you will find us to be a pretty friendy lot on here and others will be along soon to give you some more specific advice.

12 billion clamps? :shock: No, 11 billion should be quite sufficient. Seriously, it is often said, and is pretty much true, that you can never have enough clamps. I would suggest that you acquire these gradually on an as and when needed for the project in hand basis. You will soon amass a collection.

Oh, and many people start out with a Workmate or similar, particularly when space dictates. You really can achieve much despite restricted space and starting with basic tools. :wink: (Barbeque? ..... flat top? ..... board on top? .....workbench??? :roll: ).

Ask away, evie, 'cos there is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid answers! :wink: 

Cheers,

Trev.


----------



## Chris Knight (18 Oct 2005)

Evie,
Welcome to the forum. You seem to be heading very much in the right direction with your purchases to date.

A workmate or any less than stable bench - can be made much more stable if you can attach it in some way to a wall. For example by clamping a piece of wood to the legs or uderside of the top, then tying or clamping this to your wall or baclony railings etc.

I guess you can sharpen your tools at night school but some elementary sharpening kit is probably desirable. There is more than enough advice on sharpening already on this forum- far too much actually because it is confusing to a beginner. I suggest you practice what your course tutor demonstrates and stick to that for a year or so, unless you are really having trouble getting sharp tools.

For saws, you can do a lot worse than go with the Japanese pull saws. They are very sharp and often have replaceable blades (you can't sharpen them) They can also be had quite cheaply nowadays.


----------



## Alf (18 Oct 2005)

Welcome to the forum, Evie.

In addition to the Japanese saws, consider the Builder's Friend - the plastic handled hardpoint saw. The Japanese is a better bet for joint cutting, but an ordinary hardpoint will deal with rougher work and save the Japanese saw's teeth for more precise work.

Clamps; if you can make suitable bars, clamp heads are a flexible clamping option at a cheaper price. 

Any off-cut of wood can do as a mallet if funds are really, really tight. But then any old off-cuts can be _made_ into a mallet too - even softwood holds up remarkably well, according to John Brown's "Anarchist Woodworker" experience of some years ago. Actually, you're not far off the tool kit he assembled for that project (aimed at a beginner using nothing but hand tools and builder's softwood). He borrowed a Workmate to build himself a bench, IIRC. Hmm, maybe I'll see if I can dig out the relevant issue and post his list of tools - might be helpful.

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Anonymous (18 Oct 2005)

Evie,
I think you have a very good start and some great replies so far.
You can construct a very serviceable bench with a solid core door for a top and a construction lumber base. I was able to find these at a demolition company for less than $10.


----------



## Anonymous (18 Oct 2005)

It is very encouraging to have people validate my choices so far.

Sharpening: currently using various sandpaper grits stuck to a big flat floor tile, plus Axminster honing jig (better than hand, but nasty IMO). My vintage chisels seem never to have been used, and the original bevel is considerably less than the 25 degrees recommended. Thus much work ahead. The three of five I've done have come out pretty well, though, and are definitely a lot sharper than they were.

Bench: Door sounds good except the space I have is much smaller than that. Will keep you posted.

Saw: Dozuki sounds good but I've not been taught to use it. Do you stick your index finger out the way you do with a back saw?

Thanks! 

evie


----------



## Alf (18 Oct 2005)

Okay, the list as mentioned above. Not sure it's as much help as I thought - but it might be of interest, or a point of debate, anyway. Or just nostalgic, give how many names are now no longer available, or just not worth the money. Prices are from the 1997 APTC catalogue IIRC.

John Brown's Anarchist Woodworker Tool Kit - Autumn 1997

Saws 
26in Rip Saw- Dorchester 570 series 50.70
26in Crosscut Dorchester 570 series 50.70
22in Panel saw Dorchester 570 series 46.69
8in Gents saw. Roberts & Lee 11.50
Coping saw 6.23
12in Turning saw 31.50
Junior hack saw - Eclipse 2.03
8in regular taper saw file 3.66 
6in slim taper saw file 2.38

Hammers
20oz Claw- Stanley 40 series 15.63
12oz Crosspein- Stanley 8.74

Planes 
Jointer No 7 - Stanley 73.56
Jack No5 - Stanley 42.59
Smoothing No4 - Stanley 34.13
Block 60 1/2: - Stanley 33.51
Rebate 778 - Record 79.33
Router 71 - Stanley 47.76 

Chisels  
1 1/4in paring - Sorby 20.79
1/2in paring - Sorby 16.76 
1in register - Sorby 284 15.27 
1/2in register - Sorby 284 12.28 
1/4in bevel edge - Record Marples 377 16.34 

Boring Holes 
10in Brace - Stanley 73 Mk iv 45.33 
Hand drill - Stanley 24.76 
1in Jennings bit 13.03 
3/4in Jennings bit 10.92 
5/8in Jennings bit 9.16 
1/2in Jennings bit 8.93 
3/8in Jennings bit 8.69 
Bit roll - 9 pocket 4.09 
1 1/4in centre pattern bit 10.62 
13 piece twist drills, IMP Dial a Drill 8.12 
Countersink 4.01 

Measuring and Marking 
36in Rabone Blind Man's Rule 7.66 
5m Tape - APTC Index 4.43 
12in Try Square, Recprd/Marples 2200 24.85 
10 1/2in Bevel, Reqord/Marples 2226 15.87 
Mortise Gauge, Record/Marples 2153 22.48 
Cutting Gauge, Record/Marples 2083 13.14
Knife (SIoyd) 120SB 9.75
2in Bradawl - square blade 3.69
Stanley Knife 199 2.85

Miscellaneous
8in Screwdriver - Sheffield Cabinet 7.71
4in Screwdriver - Sheffield Cabinet 4,81
6in Pliers - Spear & Jackson 'sure grip' 7.30
10in Pincers 8.57 
12in Wood rasp 20.88
Cabinet Scraper - Sandvik 474 2.68 
Burnisher - Kirschen 5.71
Handgrinder to be decided?
O'Donnell Tool Rest. (Not APTC, donated by
Mike O'Donnell)
Fine Bench Stone - 
8in x 2in x 1in Norton India 14.32
Slipstones - Henry Taylor 7.44
Holding and Cramping
Vice - Record 10 1/2in plain screw 58.26
Vice - Mechanic's - Record 4in 63 47 
G Cramps - Record 120. 4 @ 18.07 72.28
Sash Cramps - Paramo box section 
2 x 36in @ 25.95 - 51.90
Sash Cramps - Paramo box section 
2 x 72in @ 40.04 80.08

Tool not in APTC catalogue
Kunz adjustable mouth spokeshave (modern
version of the old Stanley #53)
Add to this list such items as pencils, chalk,
masking tape, rags, brushes, Danish oil, paint
etc. Also, a 36in (or better, a 48in) metal
level, useful as a straight edge.

Cheers, Alf


----------



## engineer one (19 Oct 2005)

evie, looks like you have the basic, enthusiasm.
i'm no expert but i think it is too easy to get too many tools,
i've hundreds of them it seems, not sure i use them all.

the most important thing is to make things, and to do this you need very 
basic tools, but also you need marking tools.

for layout/marking tools in the uk i suggest you go to companies like
proops and other cheap sellers to start out. really you could start out
using a plastic set square and a steel rule if you are going to make small 
boxes, get a knife and a pencil and you are set to get going.

as for the bench, you may not be able to fix anything to your balcony, and of course it's raining now in west london so it is not the ideal place for detail work. suggest you think about a cutting bench which could be made of 3x3 beam of rough wood (maybe from a local skip) and a folding top attached sort of temporarily permanently to the balcony, then assembly and fine work inside. (you'll do the hoovering anyway to it should not get too messy)(not being sexist just realistic).

start with a japanese pull saw maybe like the sharks if for no other reason than they seem to make less dust, and be easier to start. and yes, use your finger as a start.
as for cramps/clamps if you have a bench, then you need really for little things only place a couple of dogs, and some wedges, or splurge, and buy a zyliss vise at an exhibition. might blow your budget for other tools, but for small things is has many virtues, not least adaptability.

hope this too helps
paul :wink:


----------



## Anonymous (19 Oct 2005)

Thanks Paul! I appreciate it, the long list was worrying me, although I reckon it is also very helpful. I found a similarly long one, but seemingly good, at Geoff's woodworking - but the prices! Well, I feel like a genius for snapping up what I have so cheaply 

Marking tools: I actually have quite a bit, I now realise, from some technical drawing classes I took in high school twenty-odd years ago (ack) - anyway a reliable lead holder, compass, large compass, lockable dividers, etc. And a steel rule SOMEwhere around the house, if I can find it. The thing I really need is a combination square, I guess, that's not too expensive. I have a swiss army knife and a stanley knife too from the normal household DIY.

Good ideas about attaching the bench to the balcony, I will look into whether it's possible to stick - what, I guess rings? - into the brick wall. Wouldn't want the house to crumble... The balcony is quite sheltered from the rain except at the outer edge. Major problem is the wind, so you're probably right about the detail work needing to be done indoors.

This was really really helpful, thanks again.

evie

ps Have to be careful about the hoovering though - my husband is an enlightened Swede and likely to take it into his head to do it and then come over all grumpy. On the plus side, he does the laundry and the bathroom


----------



## bugbear (19 Oct 2005)

> buy a zyliss vise



I strongly recommend against this. And I speak as someone who bought one.

They are expensive.

I would much prefer a (preferably old s/h) B&D workmate, a coupla' 'F' clamps, and a coupla' cheap Aluminium sash clamps, which should come to the same total outlay. Together with some scrap, these provide a multitude of work holding possibilities.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... e=1&jump=0
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... 55&recno=1

BugBear


----------



## Anonymous (19 Oct 2005)

Evie, a lead holder is something I have never seen mentioned on WW forums but it is a great layout tool. 4H & 5H leads are exellent and I used to be able to get white leads for marking on dark woods. I haven't been able to find those lately so my small supply will have to last awhile. 
Another trick is to take a 2 mm drill bit and sharpen the plain end. Now you have a scratch awl with retractable tip!
Ian Kirby uses a Swiss Army knife for a marking knife.
Josh Clark http://hyperkitten.com/woodworking/ did some great woodworking while living in a condo. I wish he had pictures of his workbench/dining table on his site. :lol:


----------



## Anonymous (19 Oct 2005)

Thanks for all advice to date.

OK, so I took the plunge and bought (from Axminster, I can't be hauling hardware all over london on the tube):

- el super cheapo Axminster workmate knock-off. Maybe I'll be sorry but I have compact workbench plans of which more anon.
- 4 regular duty g-clamps, 2 big, 2 small
- 2 aluminum sash clamps
- dozuki (hope you guys are right about this!)
- combination waterstone for honing. The school has a tormek system so hopefully I can do heavy duty grinding there - btw they are on sale at Axminster (tormeks, that is), not that I'm getting one but someone here might be in the market.
- small combination square
- coping saw & blades (I have hopes of dovetailing, where I understand they are very useful)
- mallet
- hardpoint saw


Total £89. Dozuki was the most expensive at £18, followed by the sash clamps and the waterstone.

The Stopped Housing Joint was no match for me in class last night, and my plans to make a letter holder with four shelves were approved. 

We have this no 71 router plane at the school, and I love that thing. When finances recover from this latest splurge perhaps.

Thanks again for all advice. I will now stop asking about basic kit and return to asking questions about bridled plough planes and the like.

evie, sliding ever faster down the slope


----------



## Adam (19 Oct 2005)

evie said:


> tormek system so hopefully I can do heavy duty grinding there /quote]
> 
> I doubt it, Tormeks are not a grinding system designed to remove large amounts of metal. It takes ages to remove even small amounts of metal. DAMHIKT!
> 
> Adam


----------



## bugbear (19 Oct 2005)

> We have this no 71 router plane at the school, and I love that thing. When finances recover from this latest splurge perhaps.



For housing or dados, you could make a DIY "old women's tooth" router, built to fit one of your chisels.

Courtesy of Alf:
http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/wwrouterplane.html

Pictures:
http://www.holzwerken.de/pics/grannys1.jpg
http://www.holzwerken.de/pics/grannys2.jpg

#71's go quite expensive on the second hand market. I don't know why.

In the early stages of WW'ing, making wooden tools is doubly time effective, because you improve your skills, and gain tools.

But such things as bench hooks, shooting boards, bow saws (!) can all be made.

The ultimate example is (of course) a bench...

BugBear


----------



## Anonymous (19 Oct 2005)

Stop, stop, you're trying to hurt me, aren't you? Now I will have to do as you suggest.

I will repay you by sending the forum pictures of my laughable attempts at toolery...and you will have to correct me, step by tortuous step, as I ask sixteen questions for every answer you give...

evie

PS thanks for the cool links


----------



## engineer one (19 Oct 2005)

go for it,
my comment about fixing to the wall, i would think of maybe a couple of 
rawlplugs and long screws, make it look like support for a plant holder, they'll never know.

don't understand the comment about tormek's not removing metal very quickly. i was able to reshape an old footprint masher within about 10 minutes on coarse, otherwise i only use the fine .

as for zyliss, yes they are a bit pricy but when you have no space, they offer you the chance not to have a big or little work bench. maybe for a pro they are no good, but for the amateur they offer a good starting point.

evie as for things like bench hook they are easily made at your class and maybe you can make special ones.

from a personal point of view its nice to see that a woman can also fall down this slippery slope, go for it.

paul :lol:


----------



## Anonymous (19 Oct 2005)

Hi bugbear,



> For housing or dados, you could make a DIY "old women's tooth" router, built to fit one of your chisels.



This looks really really hard, even if I want to (which of course I do). Has anyone else done it? Is it really really hard? I read Alf's description of making the spokeshave "kit" where everything is _supposed_ to go together, and that impressed me no end. Here I take an old file or a chisel and convert it as if by magic, or so it seems to me. I mean, that's super cool of course but rather daunting. 

Even the old instructions, which are about half Greek (like drilling with a twist bit on the bevel, whatever that means), say it is "a test of craftsmanship." That's for sure.

evie


----------



## Alf (19 Oct 2005)

engineer one":4sbo4cli said:


> from a personal point of view its nice to see that a woman can also fall down this slippery slope, go for it.


It's not entirely unknown... :roll: :lol:

As far as the router plane is concerned, possibly an easier option is to make one using a reground allen key - like this. It doesn't have to be even that posh, to be honest, but what else is a person to do it they happen to have a thumb screw lying about?  And speaking for myself, I can assure you I've never made any of the things in the Galootish Gleanings on my website.  I will do. One day. Quite soon now. 

Probably. 8-[

Cheers, Alf


----------



## MikeW (20 Oct 2005)

Alf":2bg1ojds said:


> It's not entirely unknown... :roll: :lol:
> ...
> Cheers, Alf


Speaking of tool chests, how's the Newlyn chest project coming, Alf?

Tool Chest Challenge proposal

no updates for months...

Mike


----------



## Alf (20 Oct 2005)

Ah, well... I don't want to be accused of gloating, do I? :roll: If there's any desire to have a bash at another class of tool, feel free to prod me appropriately. Got most of the major planes photographed now, if you wanted to try that daunting task. :shock: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Anonymous (20 Oct 2005)

This is cool - I like the Tool Chest Challenge. Dave Key has a couple I guess you've seen?. I was examining them in order to determine my own choice!

Currently my tools have no real home.

evie


----------



## Chris Knight (20 Oct 2005)

evie":3tcaor3e said:


> Currently my tools have no real home.



At the North Bennet Street School ( http://www.nbss.org ) the first thing students build is a toolbox. They have made some fabulous ones, some of which are covered in Jim Tolpin's Toolbox book.


----------



## Alf (20 Oct 2005)

evie":6i73q7c9 said:


> Currently my tools have no real home.


Hmm, I wonder if something portable isn't your best route - given your location, balcony situation etc. :-k Saw something recently... here we go. 'Course The Toolbox Book has a range of ideas along the same lines, but as it's a Slippery Slope all on its own, you might do best to avoid that just now. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## martyn2 (20 Oct 2005)

Alf":56c6un3o said:


> but as it's a Slippery Slope all on its own, you might do best to avoid that just now. :lol:
> 
> Cheers, Alf



 I have now invested in a pair of skis(old floor boards) and a ski lift :roll: 

martyn


----------



## Alf (20 Oct 2005)

martyn2":ackxcw2s said:


> I have now invested in a pair of skis(old floor boards) and a ski lift :roll:


Got a plan for some wooden skis someplace... :-k Hang on. Ski _Lift_?! You don't think you're ever getting back up again, do you? :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## martyn2 (20 Oct 2005)

Alf":18dxrso8 said:


> [Hang on. Ski _Lift_?! You don't think you're ever getting back up again, do you? :lol:
> Cheers, Alf



one can dream [-o< not me my LOML

Martyn


----------



## MikeW (20 Oct 2005)

martyn2":1rtemrzr said:


> Alf":1rtemrzr said:
> 
> 
> > [Hang on. Ski _Lift_?! You don't think you're ever getting back up again, do you? :lol:
> ...


Ah, the ski lift is most likely a personal, painfully purpose-built contraption. 

For me, it is the selling off of tools I deem not important at this time, or those which demarcate a shift in methods.

It will be a most amusing time for all concerned when, upon reaching my own precipice, I am to step off and blindly slide back down :lol: 

Mike


----------



## Alf (20 Oct 2005)

I think you can reach a plateau on The Slope sometimes, where the slide slows, stops, or you even think you might just be able to scramble back up a yard or two (self-deluding sliders, that we are). But I don't think you ever truly ever get back up once you're on it. Selling things just seems to slow the speed of descent (lighter weight I s'pose?)  

I've been on a plateau-ette for a while now (no really), but the slow rate at which I off-load things and the trickle of other things coming on board means I sharn't ever get any nearer the top. This is the highest point, and it's pretty far from the sun... But nothing quite beats that adrenalin rush when you first go over The Edge - the speed, the wind in your face, the LOYL with the constant cry of "not more tools!" forever on their lips, the endless flow of edges to be sharpened. Ah me, I'm getting nostalgic now... :roll: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


----------



## Anonymous (20 Oct 2005)

"The Slippery Slope" is a completely false analogy meant to delude the newcomer that one is merely sliding, not falling. A better analogy is the Warner Bros cartoon "Roadrunner". All of us are Wile E. Coyote ever acquiring yet another "ACME" tool to aid us in our futile pursuit of the Roadrunner only to find we are falling off another cliff and raising a cloud of dust at the bottom.


----------



## Frank D. (20 Oct 2005)

LOL!:lol::lol::lol:


Alf":3irlvytv said:


> the LOYL with the constant cry of "not more tools!" forever on their lips


One good thing about getting on down the slope is that LOYL eventually gives up crying. This happens when the "conditioning stage" of the slope comes to an end. Another advantage is that you have so many planes that two or three more can only be noticed by other people on the same slope. And so we enter the "reduced stress" stage. The highs may be less exhilarating but hey, you do want to live long enough to get that minty infill...!


----------



## Anonymous (20 Oct 2005)

I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that making furniture or whatever is only an excuse for tool acquisition. ':shock:' I mean, as far as I can see nobody is going on about how many chairs or tables or bookcases or boats they are going to acquire when they have these tools!

Me, I'm going to acquire a tool tote and a workbench. Eventually. Ahem.

evie


----------



## MikeW (20 Oct 2005)

Alf":13fl2qn8 said:


> ...the LOYL with the constant cry of "not more tools!" forever on their lips


Only in my case, it's a bit of one addict (in recovery) living with another (not in recovery). There is no "not more tools" only the constant refrain of "you going near XYZ tool store today?" or "are you ordering from LV soon?" and even When you're out today, would you pick me up a piece of ABC wood?" LOL.

But it's all good, really. And of course I'm not really climbing out of the valley of Old Tools. Not really climbing out at all. Just lightening the load is all. "Less is more" is the delusion in search of a simplier set of choices.

But, as I haven't weighed in on giving Evie my demented advice...I would suggest that a small tool chest is a great project for storing your tools. Just make sure it is capable of you lifting it. The mentioned Toolbox book looks like it would have many good suggestions. Any you find made for portability for say a carpenter would have ideas to borrow from.

So why this suggestion? A portable toolbox (any toolbox really) is an excercise in tolerances and fit. There are parts, such as the case sides and top for practicing handcut joinery, that need to be as tight as one can make. There are lots of parts, say like removable tills, that need to be a loose fit...but not too loose. Then there is the practice of fitting the tools it will contain themselves. This can be a good practice in scribing a fit of odd shapes. The whole fitting is an excercise in the logic of the maker. One that can and will change with time.

Mike
who still needs to make one for taking to jobsites--but now has a design in the head...


----------



## Alf (20 Oct 2005)

Roger Nixon":2h2449h9 said:


> "The Slippery Slope" is a completely false analogy meant to delude the newcomer that one is merely sliding, not falling.


Roger, I feel like a fisherman who's just seen someone carefully shepherding the fish out of the danger zone. *You're not meant to tell them that!* ](*,)



evie":2h2449h9 said:


> I could be wrong here, but it seems to me that making furniture or whatever is only an excuse for tool acquisition. ':shock:'


Ooops. We've been rumbled... 8-[ For the actual making of things, the Hand Tools board - arguably _any_ Hand Tool forum - is the last place to be*. :lol: 



MikeW":2h2449h9 said:


> who still needs to make one for taking to jobsites--but now has a design in the head...


Oh really? Should you care to share at any point, I'm sure we'll make like Mr Spock and be all ears. 

Cheers, Alf

*By which I mean "try the completed projects etc", not "hand tool users never make anything". Although some don't. But we don't make value judgements on such a crass basis as number of completed projects. That's what their SWMBOs/HWMBOs are for.


----------



## MikeW (20 Oct 2005)

> Oh really? Should you care to share at any point, I'm sure we'll make like Mr Spock and be all ears.


But of course...probably not a play-by-play account though. Need to first get the idea on paper. Gather those hand tools I have deemed important from my playing finish carpenter on a few jobs.

And there is a complimentary larger, probably two-person-to-carry traditional toolbox as well.

As well as a stepstool that carries some tools that I have found handy to have.

But first, the stool and portable box.

Mike


----------



## Anonymous (20 Oct 2005)

Alf":1le2z2kk said:


> Roger Nixon":1le2z2kk said:
> 
> 
> > "The Slippery Slope" is a completely false analogy meant to delude the newcomer that one is merely sliding, not falling.
> ...



It's OK, she has some planes! She is ours now!

<whoosh><whoo>
"Luke, er, Evie, I am your father!" :lol: 

SWMBO has always supported my tool habit. Of course, she is much worse with her quilt/vintage fabric habit.  

In my early galooting days, I used to support my tool jones by buying lots of old tools at auctions and selling them on ebay, keeping what I wanted from the lot. It was profitable enough that SWMBO would sometimes kick me out on Saturday mornings and tell me to come home with tools.


----------



## engineer one (20 Oct 2005)

the toolbox controversy is ever greater, and if you work in others homes, you tend to take power tools, and they all have funny different shaped boxes which means that any job involves a couple of dozen trips back to the car/van or pantechnicon.

i have often thought that for those brits who live in small places, (everybody) the combination saw horse, stool and tool holder has a lot
of value, and as mike says gives you a good jumping off point. if you intend to stick with hand tools it will be relatively light and even sort of transportable. the problem then becomes that people see that you can make things and they want you to do the "odd job" for them, "won't take long" "you want how much?????"

i think that the problem with tools is we all want our jobs to be made more easily, so we buy something without really knowing whether it will do what is says on the can, then having used it once we cannot return it. this is particularly true for those who live too far from exhibitions and shops, and have to rely on magazine reviews. so in my case you end up with two lots of tools, those that are still in use, and those that should be, but now i can do with out. the problem is that both lots are combined in one place and i cannot remember which is which. if only i had the strength to put to one side those that don't work and then try to sell them :lol:


----------

