# Robert Sorby Pro Edge System



## Aden30mm (28 Nov 2014)

I'm currently considering buying a Sorby Pro Edge system. 

I have one concern that forum members who use the Sorby Pro Edge System may be able to assist.

So can the Pro Edge cut a 'Ellsworth' grind on the 1/2inch bowl gouge?

Regards

Aden


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## CHJ (28 Nov 2014)

I believe that you need the additional length pivot piece with additional holes to provide adequate clearance.


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## SteveF (28 Nov 2014)

with the long grind attachment i replicated \ sharpened my crown PM ellesworth within about 10 minutes after unpacking the pro edge

so yes

Steve


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## Random Orbital Bob (28 Nov 2014)

There y' go Aden...excellent


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## Aden30mm (28 Nov 2014)

Thanks guys, one on my Christmas list now.

Rgs

Aden


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## Aden30mm (29 Nov 2014)

Bad News: Santa can't deliver for Christmas.

Good News its coming next week

Yippee


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## Random Orbital Bob (29 Nov 2014)

will you report back when you've tried it Aden because (as you know) its on my list too and your feedback would be valuable.

Thanks


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## Duncan A (29 Nov 2014)

The Sorby forum has an interesting thread on this subject:

http://robert-sorby.freeforums.net/thre ... inding-jig

Duncan


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## CHJ (29 Nov 2014)

Must admit having acquired a bowl gouge steel with the Ellsworth style long grind and sorted my jig settings to replicate it a couple of years ago at least, I am after many months of it sitting in the rack getting very little use on my style of turnings slowly reverting it back to my favourite profile with each sharpening.

I've seen folks hogging cores out of green bowl blanks with draw cuts and the like and sliding along on a sheer scrape on the outside but for me a moments inattention with such a long cutting edge creates a very real prospect of an unwanted catch as it twists the tool in my hands.


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## duncanh (30 Nov 2014)

When one of our long serving club members comes in to do a talk on tools and brings his grinding gear for a demo he usually will not put a long grind onto a novice's bowl gouge for that reason - way too catchy if you don't know what you're doing. I can't say I particularly agree with it as I used one when I started out and didn't have too many problems. If you do have the odd catch or 2 you soon learn what you did wrong


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## Aden30mm (30 Nov 2014)

Bob no problem I post my finding on the Pro Edge after I set it up.

I acquired a Ellsworth bowl gouge a few weeks ago and have been mighty impressed with it. The rate it cuts out wood is impressive, but it also allows for fine cuts under control. Its early days, but I am optimistic with its use.


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## Willum (30 Nov 2014)

If I may digress, how long are the belts for the Pro Edge , can they be used on any other belt sander, thanks .


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## woodpig (30 Nov 2014)

I don't believe it's a common size Willum but they may fit some of those cheap grinder/belt sander machines that Draper/Aldi/Lidl sell?


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## paulm (30 Nov 2014)

50mm x 780mm are the size for the sorby belts, don't think they will fit anything else except possibly small cheap hand held belt sanders but not sure about that.

Cheers, Paul


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## duncanh (30 Nov 2014)

I expect that the belts are an unusual size specifically so they don't fit another machine, making sure you buy the pro edge. Or maybe I'm just too cynical


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## Grahamshed (30 Nov 2014)

duncanh":2ullc659 said:


> I expect that the belts are an usual size specifically so they don't fit another machine, making sure you buy the pro edge. Or maybe I'm just too cynical



You may be right but while the pro edge may be the only machine to take that size belt there are belts for it made by other companies. Toolpost in Didcot stock them and I think there are others as well.


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## Jacob (30 Nov 2014)

duncanh":6gt1xkjk said:


> I expect that the belts are an unusual size specifically so they don't fit another machine, making sure you buy the pro edge. Or maybe I'm just too cynical


If you can find a Picador belt linisher the Sorby belts will fit. No doubt many other machines too. No need to be cynical!
I sold Picador a bit back and with hindsight I should have kept it as it was a good alternative to the Sorby.


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## Willum (30 Nov 2014)

Many thanks, just hoped it could be a two birds with one stone job if I got one . Stick with the Tormek and the Sheppach seems to be the sensible thing.


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## woodpig (30 Nov 2014)

As a point of interest this is my Record Power BDS250. I liked the look of the Sorby system but I already had the BDS250 so I modified it. The auxiliary platten is 50mm wide so I split 150mm wide belts into three for tool sharpening. I can easily still use full width belts for wood shaping etc but care has to be taken to remove all wood dust before going back to sharpening duties as there is a fire risk.


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## Random Orbital Bob (1 Dec 2014)

Grahamshed":2jegmi52 said:


> duncanh":2jegmi52 said:
> 
> 
> > I expect that the belts are an usual size specifically so they don't fit another machine, making sure you buy the pro edge. Or maybe I'm just too cynical
> ...



Toolpost stock 2 different belts which fit the PE, the Sorby originals (expensive) or a copy brand (cheaper). I've used both and the cheaper brand is pretty good. Further, you can have the correct size made by an abrasive specialist in Andover called BND Abrasives (http://www.bndabrasives.co.uk/)

They are the cheapest of all and perfectly good quality. One snag is they have a minimum order size so I tend to split mine with a friend off this very forum, we buy what we need and split the bill.

Lastly (particularly with reference to the very inventive conversion of the Record Power sanding station). Sorby claim their belts are the safest because the join point is woven rather than just overlapped and glued. This reduces the risk of the edge catching and ripping the belt at high speed (they say) and it's how they justify their higher price. Personally, I've not had any problem with the cheaper, non woven variety and I have taken a fair amount of steel off using them. But attitudes to workshop risk are better handled by the individual than anyone preaching in my view. A cynic might say that, much like ink cartridge consumables, once you've invested in the technology, you're on the proprietary treadmill! But not being a cynic....I won't!


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## Rhossydd (1 Dec 2014)

Random Orbital Bob":1ho1t3xs said:


> A cynic might say that, much like ink cartridge consumables, once you've invested in the technology, you're on the proprietary treadmill! But not being a cynic....I won't!


That PoV might make sense if they were selling the machine at a subsidised price, but they certainly aren't.


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## woodpig (1 Dec 2014)

I didn't realise Sorby were making those claims about their belts. As said I suppose it's to persuade users not to buy possibly cheaper third party ones. I've certainly never had a belt break on my machine. The only problem I've had is sourcing cheap butt joined belts. The old scarf joint ones are complete rubbish but that's what Record Power were offering for my machine the last time I looked!


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## Random Orbital Bob (1 Dec 2014)

Rhossydd":11fkqkee said:


> Random Orbital Bob":11fkqkee said:
> 
> 
> > A cynic might say that, much like ink cartridge consumables, once you've invested in the technology, you're on the proprietary treadmill! But not being a cynic....I won't!
> ...



A point well made but I have a slightly different perspective to that coming from a Tormek background which is that by contrast the PE is actually half decent value. The Tormek on the other hand is very expensive considering how slowly it removes steel and how time consuming the jig setup can be. On the other hand its very versatile, delivers an amazing edge and has zero risk of drawing the temper....but it aint cheap.

I take the point about the printer analogy as that market has taken commoditisation to the nth degree. Buy our printer for 27p........but then spend fifty quid every time you need more proprietary ink! While you've got me ranting, HP even write all their cartridge management software to throw as many Wobblies as possible if you DARE to buy the cheaper clone brands. I find that attitude extremely cynical.

Perhaps the tool market will go the same way eventually but its a fraction the size of the printer universe and I daresay moves at a very slow pace as a consequence.


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## Jacob (1 Dec 2014)

I've never used a Tormek, but everybody I know who has one, says that they are not what they are cracked up to be. Thumbs down all round!
I have a Sorby Proedge and it's very good - and ditto, all who have one seem to agree.
I wouldn't get paranoid about the belts - they are available from many sources.


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## woodpig (1 Dec 2014)

Any decent abrasives supplier can provide non standard belts you just have to buy ten at a time.

I'd really like to make my own belts up but can't find a suitable splicing tape.


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## Paul Hannaby (3 Dec 2014)

Random Orbital Bob":25t6bb4c said:


> The Tormek on the other hand is very expensive considering how slowly it removes steel and how time consuming the jig setup can be.



The Sorby system uses the Tormek gouge jig so both must be equally time consuming on setting up the jig.


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## paulm (3 Dec 2014)

Paul Hannaby":3fwrn6jo said:


> Random Orbital Bob":3fwrn6jo said:
> 
> 
> > The Tormek on the other hand is very expensive considering how slowly it removes steel and how time consuming the jig setup can be.
> ...



Not really. The wheel diameter on the tormek changes with use and therefore the jig supporting bar needs to be adjusted to the correct distance from the wheel if the jigs being used are to be at the same settings consistently. On the sorby of course the bar is a fixed distance from the abrasive which doesn't change to any meaningful extent.

Cheers, Paul


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## procell (3 Dec 2014)

I use a Jet wetstone system which is similar to the Tormek. setting up takes less than a minute using a tormek setting jig.
I use tormek jigs as they perform better than the jet or record ones. 

Record power have some xmas offers on at the moment that may be worth a look.
http://www.recordpower.co.uk/


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## Random Orbital Bob (3 Dec 2014)

when I said the jigs can take a while to setup, I meant "in the round" ie there are a great many different jigs rather than the elliptical grinding jig specifically (For bowl gouges). When you want to grind your roughing gouge...another jig.....skew.....same jig but different form (open seat/closed seat etc). Now I'm not complaining about Tormek's jig quality...they're excellent and as has been said, most other manufacturers incl Sorby buy them in and ship with their own product. It's just the sheer number of variables and fiddling needing to be adjusted that drives me nuts. 

The Pro-edge has two massive advantages:

1) almost all its positions are baked into the machine so whilst less flexible than the Tormek which is infinitely variable, its much faster to setup and in the main, its baked settings include all the ones you're likely to want so no problem.
2) It removes large amounts of HSS VERY VERY VERY much faster than the Tormek even with the silicon blackstone, which is in fact, as slow as a dog. Sore fingers and considerable frustration if you want to regrind a large skew or do an experimental change grind on a bowl gouge. The PE is incredibly fast with a new 60g belt.

In the end, the Tormek is much more refined, but more fiddly, more time consuming, more expensive. The PE is a superb design for wood turners who want minimal faff when sharpening all the usual tools (including carbide tips with the right belt). I really get on with it and have all but abandoned the T7 except for one specific bowl gouge long grind setup which its left permanently. I've no axe to grind with the Tormek (pun intended), I've just found the PE to be way faster and more practical.


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## CHJ (3 Dec 2014)

This is why Jeff Farris who provides an excellent introduction and guide on the Tormek DVD raises the point that if you are regularly sharpening a variety of tools then the purchase of duplicate or triplicate guides and components that can be locked and left ( he even uses a PK screw to do this) is the way to go to take full advantage of rapid edge touch up, “Touch N Turn” in Tormek speak.

And despite not being quite so critical on the Sorby or used with a bench grinder due to more rapid removal of material and small change in profile if not exactly in same location, having more than one bevel edge guide certainly speeds up the touch up of the tools as setting different angles accurately for different tool formats is not an instantaneous easily set accurately function, taking longer to set and check than the actual quick lick of the tools possible with pre-set jigs.


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## Jacob (3 Dec 2014)

Everybody jigging about! It's easy to forget that it is possible to sharpen almost anything without a jig. They are not necessary. It's only a very recent fashion (and it sells a lot of accessories).


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Dec 2014)

An A.I. 3/4" bowl gouge is £56. A jig will probably double its life span, so it doesn't take many tools to more than justify the jigs. It might not be necessary, but it surely makes sense.


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## CHJ (3 Dec 2014)

Jacob":1fe25hh5 said:


> Everybody jigging about! It's easy to forget that it is possible to sharpen almost anything without a jig. They are not necessary. It's only a very recent fashion (and it sells a lot of accessories).


Those of us that actually use the machines and produce significant output in the limited time available and wish to get on with the turning and hone our skills on producing a good finish and some output, know that a simple jig can provide a relaxed quick clean up of the cutting edge that can be relied upon to behave exactly the same way it always has done without risk of returning to the job in hand and finding that we have spoilt the job for a moments deviation on the sharpening device.

It's not necessary to own or drive a car as you proved with your recent cycle marathon, I doubt you choose to use such a mode of transport or alternatively walk to every venue you wish to visit.
Sometimes there are far more productive ways of completing a task without having to go off on a tangent learning or training for a different set of skills.


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## Woodmonkey (3 Dec 2014)

Jacob":31urhqb0 said:


> Everybody jigging about! It's easy to forget that it is possible to sharpen almost anything without a jig. They are not necessary. It's only a very recent fashion (and it sells a lot of accessories).



So if it's not necessary, why do you own a pro edge then Jacob?


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## Random Orbital Bob (3 Dec 2014)

lets not re-hash this tired old argument chaps. We really have done it to death oh so many times. It's about choice isn't it. Yes you can sharpen by eye with a simple inexpensive bench grinder and a white wheel, or you can spend thousands on the most amazing linishers/industrial grinders......whatever floats your boat and indeed whatever you're prepared to invest in....capital and learning time.


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## woodpig (4 Dec 2014)

it's not just the speed of the Sorby in sharpening tools but the very short time needed to learn how to sharpen tools on it. I suspect most wood turners want to spend their time turning wood, not learning how to sharpen tools.


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## Dalboy (4 Dec 2014)

Learn to sharpen on a bench grinder, cheaper no setting of jigs takes seconds money to spend on something useful :twisted:


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## J-G (4 Dec 2014)

Dalboy":tvvdm2an said:


> Learn to sharpen on a bench grinder, cheaper no setting of jigs takes seconds money to spend on something useful :twisted:


I'll second that, though to be fair I learned to sharpen tools of all types as an apprentice toolmaker in the 50s. The principals are similar whether the tool is for wood or metal. 
I even regrind 0.8mm Ø carbide drills by hand - though that is on a diamond wheel!


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## Jacob (4 Dec 2014)

Woodmonkey":a8aojf6c said:


> Jacob":a8aojf6c said:
> 
> 
> > Everybody jigging about! It's easy to forget that it is possible to sharpen almost anything without a jig. They are not necessary. It's only a very recent fashion (and it sells a lot of accessories).
> ...


it doesn't involve a jig of any sort - not counting the tool rest - and you can do it without that if you want to.

My point is (sorry to be boring!) is that turners regularly freehand all sorts of complex curves, hand and eye skills with a variety of tools, so they should be able to do the same with the tools themselves - especially as it involves repetition of only a few simple shapes and would save them a lot of money and time.
They take the former for granted but seem to have been talked out of the latter - by smooth talking tool sellers amongst others! 

There's money to be made from telling people that everything is really difficult unless they buy dvd/gadget X.

Just about all these things here can be done easily without a jig. 
Most of them are done more easily, freehand, on simpler cheaper machines (bench grinder, belt sander)
Some of them are done really badly on a Tormek (I'm told) - a lot of false promises.


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## Aden30mm (5 Dec 2014)

The original question was "can the Pro Edge cut a 'Ellsworth' grind on the 1/2inch bowl gouge?".

Which was kindly answered by the forum. I apologise to members for starting what has been hijacked into another sharpening thread.

Why I have bought one? that's easy, because I can, if it doesn't work I sell it on.

With the answer kindly provided to me, I think the thread can be kicked into the long grass now.


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## Random Orbital Bob (5 Dec 2014)

very eloquently put Aden


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