# Rustrpoofing a toilet seat!



## Eric The Viking (5 Jan 2011)

The postman has just delivered a frighteningly expensive new loo seat. 

'Frighteningly' expensive, only because it's a circular one, apparently of unique design, and, given the design of WC (below), I'm rather stuck with it, as no other design will go into a corner like that.







It's replacing an identical seat, on which the hinges first broke (a dodgy spot weld snapped), then rusted out over time (my own SS welding skills aren't that good!). Apparently, 'they all do that, Sir.' The ladies of the household are unimpressed with the present situation, but still coping womanfully with a rather-too-mobile 'buttock support'. This means I have a _little_ time to do something to delay rust starting on the new seat hinge, if I can. 

Here's the hinge design. The bit that fails is the top curved part. The supposedly stainless screws also rot, which is why I couldn't just buy the hinge on its own:






Everything's nominally stainless (for cheap+nasty values of 'stainless'), but I'm minded to coat the components in clear polyurethane (and let it harden well), before fitting it.

Has anyone got a better suggestion?

Thanks,

E.


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## Loz_S (5 Jan 2011)

Coating in something plasticy like polyurethane certainly wouldn't do any harm. However, if these hinge bits have failed before (i.e. hinge part sheared off from the strap) due to "rust" then the welds are most probably the cause and there is nothing you can do about it. The rusting will start from within the weld zone caused by internal stresses. rubbish welding in poor quality steel = programmed short life span.

Sorry


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## Eric The Viking (5 Jan 2011)

Loz_S":1ajgf56q said:


> Coating in something plasticy like polyurethane certainly wouldn't do any harm. However, if these hinge bits have failed before (i.e. hinge part sheared off from the strap) due to "rust" then the welds are most probably the cause and there is nothing you can do about it. The rusting will start from within the weld zone caused by internal stresses. rubbish welding in poor quality steel = programmed short life span.
> 
> Sorry



I fear you're right. 

The seat has brass bushes for the SS machine screws holding the hinge on. I've a nasty feeling that's one reason why it's failing - electrolytic corrosion. 

The new seat's welds are poor (again) too. I'm wondering if it's worth setting my MIG set up for stainless and putting a couple of extra beads on the bracket to hinge joints to strengthen them (where they fail). Last time I did this after it failed, and the repair rusted though. That's possibly because I let it get too hot or use enough argon, or possibly because I've got the wrong grade of SS wire.

Perhaps I'll just varnish it and hope for lightweight 'clients'...


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## Steve Maskery (5 Jan 2011)

I know it's not a quick fix, but could you not fabricate a brass set using the new SS as a model, then get the brass chromium or nickel plated?
S


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## Pvt_Ryan (5 Jan 2011)

Spray them every night with WD40?


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## Steve Maskery (5 Jan 2011)

Pvt_Ryan":1gvtn80s said:


> Spray them every night with WD40?


I really can't see the Ladies of the Household submitting to that.
S


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## Eric The Viking (5 Jan 2011)

Steve Maskery":1kpb10xu said:


> Pvt_Ryan":1kpb10xu said:
> 
> 
> > Spray them every night with WD40?
> ...



I was going to say, "whatever goes on in the privacy..."

Nope. I can't imagine that one being a winner round here, either!


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## Pvt_Ryan (5 Jan 2011)

Eric The Viking":12tumtab said:


> Steve Maskery":12tumtab said:
> 
> 
> > Pvt_Ryan":12tumtab said:
> ...



hmm I probably should have said "the hinges" instead of "them". I can see how some of the more peversly minded might construe "them" to mean "the women", can't say it would be my lube of choice but each to their own..


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## SketchUp Guru (5 Jan 2011)

I would consider Steve's suggestion or perhaps you can find some one who is actually good at welding Stainless and have them fabricate the parts out of a better grade of stainless steel. Have them make more than one set since you'll be using this toilet for a long time. You could always make the lid and seat from wood if you need to replace them later.


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## Setch (5 Jan 2011)

Waxoyl.

http://www.waxoylrustproofing.co.uk/whe ... waxoyl.php

My dad swears by this stuff, a generous application around the welds and a thin coat over the rest should prevent rust starting.


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## mailee (5 Jan 2011)

What a coincidence! I have just removed the hinge on my toilet seat for the same reason. My seat is a different type to this but the fittings were supposed to be top quality! It has only been in for a few months but it has rusted through like this. I am going to have to drill and tap the pivot on mine though. :roll:


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## Loz_S (6 Jan 2011)

I think maybe you have all missed my point! Oil spraying, painting, dipping and lacquering will only help prevent *surface* corrosion. 

What I am suggesting is that failure will occur due to a metallurgical fault within the metal itself. The act of welding in "rubbish" metal forms inclusions within the grain structure of the metal. The "rust" will start inside the weld area and fail *from the inside out*. There is nothing that can be done to prevent this type of failure mode from happening!

Sorry for the 2nd time


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## SketchUp Guru (6 Jan 2011)

I think at least two of us got your point. Steve and I both suggested fabricating new parts or having them fabricated. They could be made out of brass as Steve suggests or higher grade stainless steel welded by someone who knows what they are doing. It is possible to weld stainless steel properly so it won't rust.


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## Eric The Viking (6 Jan 2011)

Dave R":3btyywai said:


> I think at least two of us got your point. Steve and I both suggested fabricating new parts or having them fabricated. They could be made out of brass as Steve suggests or higher grade stainless steel welded by someone who knows what they are doing. It is possible to weld stainless steel properly so it won't rust.



@Steve, only teasing, honest!

Regarding the hinges: it's hard to see from the pics, but the biggest part is made from three pieces of steel strip - a curved piece round the seat and two that are curled for the hinges proper. These two are tack-welded, end-on, into tight-fitting stamped slots in the bigger strip. Then the messy bits are roughly ground off (taking most of the weld away!). 

[rant] It's not surprising it doesn't work - why do we have idiots or cheats running production processes in the UK these days? I've just done a very expensive shower thermostat repair because the parts were badly made with the wrong materials, and my five-year-old boiler has FIVE leaks for no other reason than poor quality control. All these things were made here - I can't blame the Chinese! 

'Built-in obsolescence' strikes me as basic dishonesty, especially when you're paying a premium price for a supposedly quality product. [/rant]

Meanwhile, in the day job, we have a couple of stainless fabrication companies as clients, so I think I'll ask one if they could spare me two 1/2" long beads of weld, to join the hinge pieces properly. Then assemble + polyurethane and it should outlast all of us!

Many thanks for everyone's ideas.

Best regaeds,

E.


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## dedee (6 Jan 2011)

Eric, not answering your question on rust proofing but there are other designs of corner WCs.

I will bring one of these over here when we redo our shower room

http://www.bathstore.com/_application/b ... .html?pg=0

Andy


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## misterfish (7 Jan 2011)

We have a couple of TC metro toilets which have circular seats ( http://www.stormbathrooms.com/acatalog/ ... _Only.html ). The toilets actually came with the seats but also with a lifetime guarantee which we have used as the soft close mechanism has failed on both - we contacted TC and both times they sent a replacement set of hinge mechanisms. 

Over the years we have had many toilet seats and have yet to fine one that doesn't fail, rust or otherwise corrode - I always assumed that this is a feature of the mildly acidic liquid associated with toilets and the occasional 'lack of accuracy'/spray problem!

Misterfish


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## Duncanhardy (11 Dec 2013)

I have been trying to find the make of my toilet it is the same as yours but wall hung
The seat fixings are identical and I need to replace them and the seat as the inserts corroded and came out
Can you tell me the make as I have searched for the seat everywhere no joy so far but spotted the article on rust proofing the hinge assembly
Hope you can assist
Cheers


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## Duncanhardy (11 Dec 2013)

I have an identical toilet seat but the toilet model is wall hung
I am trying to find a new seat and fittings but don't know the make and model can you advise
The space saving round shape is unusual all the DIY stores do not stock them or plumbers merchant I have tried plus searching on line also
Cheers


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## jasonB (12 Dec 2013)

I've fitted a few of these space WCs over the years and never had any come back on the hinges, maybe you should consider your aim as I'm sure the welds trap any corrosive liquids. Again the presence of any liquids between the SS screws and brass inserts can set up electrolitic reactions which will rot out the screws over time.

J


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## Graham Orm (12 Dec 2013)

I suggest the rot is nothing to do with the metal failing and that a certain remedy would be to pee in the grid outside.


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## Duncanhardy (12 Dec 2013)

Hi Eric
Can you advise toilet make and where you purchased the new seat and hinges I have the same problem
Cheers


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## Benchwayze (12 Dec 2013)

Just make sure you have a good aim. :wink: 

When you get really old you won't need to worry about the above! 8)


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## jasonB (13 Dec 2013)

Its an Ideal Standard "space" corner WC. 

Fastpart are ID spares people. But talk to Ideal Standard customer services first to see if the seat is still under gaurantee, They are quite good, I got an 8year old basin replaced FOC recently for one of my clients but the chinaware does habe a lifetime gaurantee. You will need proof of purchase.

spare hinge


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## Eric The Viking (13 Dec 2013)

Yep, that's the badger.

I got a silly price from Ideal Standard themselves (close to £100 if memory serves - for a TOILET SEAT!). They wouldn't sell the hinge separately. I found it cheaper elsewhere (by about £30!) by Googling. It was still eye-wateringly expensive though. I'm sorry I can't tell you which supplier, but I threw the receipt out only recently (which is why I remember at all!).

Despite comments above, the issues were entirely down to quality control/poor manufacturing choices*. Rule #1 with stainless is don't mix it with mild steel anything, even if the steel is plated, as the electric potentials are different, and the mild steel is encouraged to rust. The screws used in the original rusted because they were in contact with brass inserts in the seat and stainless in the hinge. The hinge itself failed because the welds were poor quality, and the design of the hinge makes them flex in use. Stainless work hardens more readily than mild steel. 

None of the above is rocket science. I daren't think what the design/product development process was, that it didn't take basic engineering and chemistry into account.

E.

*OK, it's true I have trouble with anything smaller than a swimming pool to aim at, but the family gave me a red plastic bucket last Christmas, so it doesn't matter any more. It's bloomin' cold in the woodshed though...


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## tekno.mage (13 Dec 2013)

Eric The Viking":39m6lna5 said:


> None of the above is rocket science. I daren't think what the design/product development process was, that it didn't take basic engineering and chemistry into account.



Of course not - it may or may not have been designed correctly but it certainly met "Mr Bottom Line" (who may even work for the Hedge Fund that now owns the company) and was then produced very much down to the lowest possible cost. "Mr Bottom Line" doesn't understand technical things like engineering or chemistry and certainly not metallurgy - only how to cut costs any way he can even if this means exploiting a third world work force for cheap labour and using the cheapest possible materials and parts (particularly in areas that do not show to the consumer) then if the thing breaks or fails after the warranty period is up, he thinks that's great as you'll need to buy a new one. Sadly, many modern consumers seem more interested in the fashionable look of a "designer" item than it's durability :-(

Sorry, rant over.


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## Eric The Viking (13 Dec 2013)

tekno.mage":2u5h7el0 said:


> Sadly, many modern consumers seem more interested in the fashionable look of a "designer" item than it's durability :-(
> 
> Sorry, rant over.



You're quite right. 

At the time we installed it, I looked for a long while for something to fit in the space. The whole room is _very_ carefully worked out to fit everything in the space, and that toilet bowl has to be exactly where it is, otherwise we couldn't have a loo in there at all. It's so tight that one side of the cistern is against the glass panel of the shower screen (this looks better than it sounds!). 

I was disappointed when I ordered one with a syphon (or so I thought), and received one with a bloomin' EU flap-valve. Yup, that now leaks, as does the other one in the house. It's stupidly complex and requires a complete replacement valve assembly, apparently. Syphons, in contrast, CANNOT leak if set up correctly, and the piston flap is pennies, literally (you can make them from the side of a 3litre milk container!).

I took a cursory look at the seat and thought it would be strong enough. It wasn't till it failed that I realised it was, in effect, spot-welded together - in one spot, across a 10mm metal 'mortice and tenon' joint in 2mm stainless (might be even thinner)!

I so wish we had First Amendment rights in this country. There should be a web site where product faults can be listed, by product and by manufacturer, so that the bad ones can be exposed. They could be ranked by 'propensity to rip-off'. I have my own list... :evil: 

E.

PS: The few remaining examples of Victorian and Edwardian plumbing still work. Why does the modern stuff fail after a few years?


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## blackrodd (13 Dec 2013)

Vasaline the steel and brass, and wipe off after fitting!
Regards Rodders


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