# Metal working lathe



## Escudo (1 Dec 2009)

Hello all,

I have been thinking that a small metal working lathe would be a useful and handy addition to the workshop.

The ability to make thumb screws, knurled knobs, bushes, ferrels, small items and parts for making tools etc. would be very useful and fun. 

I am waiting for a friend of mine to make a few small items I need for my secret santa gift. :wink: It would be nice to make these in house.

I will take some advice from him on this subject, he has a large lathe and also a Myford super 7. 

I know that one or two of our forum friends have metal working lathes, Philly and Ed. Does anybody else have a small lathe for metal work?

Axminster sell a range of Sieg machines, which also look like machines offered by Warco, Chester and Sealey. Are these all the same? Which is the best make?

A Sieg C3 is available on ebay for only £375 which seems good value. 

I am in no hurry for this item, but would like to hear views from the forum on this subject.

Any ideas?

Cheers, Tony.


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## Mr Ed (1 Dec 2009)

My lathe was purchased from a forum member for £100 - Its practically an antique, but does its job brilliantly.







I had a good look at the Axminster lathes today when I was at Nuneaton and was surprised how small they are. The cheapest ones (which I had previously considered) are really tiny - the catalogue is a bit deceptive in that way. Also the sub £500 ones felt like pretty poor quality to me.

I would look for an older model, people seem to favour Myford, as you will get a better level of engineering than in a cheap chinese model.

I had not realised how much I would use a metalworking lathe until I had one; I also use it to turn occasional bits of wood as need dictates.

This site is a good source of information;

http://www.lathes.co.uk/

and this one, whilst American, is a good source of techniques info;

http://www.americanmachinetools.com/how ... _lathe.htm

Ed


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## GraemeD (1 Dec 2009)

I thought exactly the same way as you, that a metalworking lathe would be great for occasional use to make all kinds of little fittings. So, I bought an Emco Unimat 3 on Ebay for less than £200. http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page3.html. This is a tiny lathe like the ones you see at Axminster, but being a precision Austrian made bit of kit, it makes the Chinese ones at Axminster look extremely crude. The Unimat is more like a watchmaker's lathe in build quality, but aimed at making small items for modellers. After all, what size of item do we woodworkers want to make? Not massive stuff certainly.....little knurled screws, custom fasteners etc. 

One downside of the Unimat is that it isn't great at thread cutting, which is arguably an issue. It can do it with accessories (which I don't have), so I just use taps and dies. Worth bearing in mind if this is a big part of what you planned.

Of course the biggest advantage to a small lathe like this is that you can put it in a cupboard when you've finished with it. that keeps it clean and out of the way! Wood and precision metal lathes don't mix too well!

If I could have any lathe I'd get a Myford or similar....but I don't have the space to dedicate to it, and can't justify the cost. For me at least the Emco is a pretty good compromise, and I've used it quite a bit.

Hope that helps!

Cheers
Graeme


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## Harbo (1 Dec 2009)

I have an Emco Unimat 3 too - it's a great small lathe. 
Really well made and general a few on Ebay as they have been around for about 40 years? 

The new (Chinwanese) Unimat 4 accessories generally fit it. 
The rubber belts break quite easily but can be replaced with a plastic type or even Nitrile ones. 

I have used it for making replacements tool parts (from memory it will turn up to 3" diam and has a 12 " bed? ). 
I am also (slowly) making a brass skeleton Clock. 
Look for one with lots of accessories and if possible a Milling attachment with separate motor. 

Rod


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## Boz62 (2 Dec 2009)

I have a pre-war Myford ML2. I'd LOVE to have an ML7 to get something more accurate and stronger, but since I only use it for the odd knob, spacer or widget it would be overkill . However, I wouldn't be without it, it's just too useful to have around 

I have also looked into the mini-lathe thing. Have you seen the wealth of info here. This is based on the SIEG lathes - yes lots of people ship them with various colours/badges. I would also read through these articles on how to setup a C3. They do seem to need a very complete strip-down to get them ready for a long future. I'm also worried that at least some of the SIEG machines use plastic gears in the headstock - may be worth checking which ones. They provide a lot of lathe for the money but you need to be very aware of their limitations. 

Sparey is the usual recommendation for a bible and covers the basics well, although I'm sure there are more modern books that focus on the mini-lathes 

Good luck

Boz

Edit: Found it! Arc Euro Trade also provide a PDF of what their preparation service for the SIEG X3 mill involves. Might give you an idea of how much can be done to this level of machinary in general.


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## dchallender (2 Dec 2009)

I have a larger lathe - A Harrison 11" which has a bed that will take work upto 48" long, again I got it second hand and it cost me about £250, the down side was that I had to refit a new motor which was fine though. 

My advice would be to get a second hand one which will be well bedded in, I would also agree with the other comments in that it depends on what you use it for and whether you are going to move it at some point (mine weighs the best part of half a tonne!!)

You may want to have a look here http://www.lathes.co.uk/ to have a look at the many varieties that are out there.

I'm in the process of rebuilding mine at the moment as I'm just about to move it back into the workshop after an absence of 3 yrs and I never realised just how much I would miss it.

On the unimat a friend of mine has one and he loves it, but again he only does quite small things on it whereas I have built small marine steam engines on mine and need something slightly larger.

rgds

Darren


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## 9fingers (2 Dec 2009)

I have had a myford ML7R from new but the equivalent machine is now very expensive and possible more than the OP needs in terms of capabilty.

Used myfords go for silly money on Ebay so the best way to get one is through friends who are associated with model engineering clubs where older members pass on or have to give up through health issues. This way you can pay a fair price and borrow some expertise on the condition of the machine.

Non Myford classical machines possible are better value on ebay or if you want new then the taig/sieg machines via ArcEuro trade are well prepared and come with after sales support.

Good Luck

Bob

Of course metal working machinery is a whole new slope heading off in a different direction but with a similar effect on the wallet!


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## SammyQ (2 Dec 2009)

If you look REALLY carefully....you might see a Checko/Ehrlich monster that I'm supposed to be retoring and using.....






Advise for what you want to do: BUY A SMALL ONE!

Sam


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## Jamesc (2 Dec 2009)

Hi Tony, If you are looking to buy new, and to be honest the Chiwanese lathes are hard to beat, particularly for the occasional metal worker. I have a BV20 from Axminser and in spite having 2 proper old british lathes I will neve get rid of it. 

One thing to bear in mind is not all lathes that look the same are created equal. I would recommend going to a good source and maybe paying a little more to know that the company you are buying from has good quality control on place, preferably in house with the manufacturer. 

A name that is highly regarded in Engineering circles for these lathes is Arc Euro Trade http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk. Another is Warco http://www.warco.co.uk though you are moving up a few notches here. One thing to bear in mind is even more than woodworking a metal working lathe will easily cost more than twice its purchase price in accessories, especially if you get the bug. 

You may be interested to know that there is an engineering show on at Sandown in a weeks time. You can't beat seeing these things in the flesh. Full info here http://www.modelengineershow.co.uk 

Good luck with your purchase.


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## Digit (2 Dec 2009)

I have the Axminster BV20 Tony. Not up there with the Myford Super Seven, but certainly well able to produce what you have suggested. 

Roy.


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## jasonB (2 Dec 2009)

If all you want to do is make a few parts for tools, jigs etc then one of the far eastern 7x20 lathes would be more than adequate, these are often refered to as "mini-lathes"

I started with a Unimat 3 when in my early teens and then progressed upto an Emco Ecomat by the same company. I have only recently changed theis for one of Warco's WM-280VF lathes as I needed the larger capacity for this. The build quality and final finish of the far eastern ones is not upto european or english lathes but they (well mine anyway) are capable of very accurate work.

As has been said the same lathes are available in many different colours, the specs can vary between them and also some do not include things like faceplates, 4-jaw chuck and steadies, several on e-bay are like this.

Old English iron is another option but you will not find such a compact machine and will have to start looking at Myford, Boxford or a Colchester Bantum. The latter two will more than likely be 3 phase so you need to allow for an phase converter.

Jason


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## wizer (2 Dec 2009)

Jason I take it that to make those parts it takes a lathe and a milling machine? The lathe can't produce the gears and wheels on it's own. Can it?

Just wonderin'


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## 9fingers (2 Dec 2009)

Many model engineers will cut gears on the lathe. Technically it is a milling process as the cutter is driven and the gear blank is indexed round by a dividing head.

see here for an example set up on a Myford lathe.

http://www.astronomiainumbria.org/advan ... earcut.jpg

Bob


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## wizer (2 Dec 2009)

thanks Bob.

Are milling attachments on these 'hobby' end lathes worth having or is it better to have them separate?

I'm just thinking along the same lines as Tony. A small metalworking 'shop' would be handy but it'd have to be small and do much. Would be nice to make custom metal work.

How easy would it be to make a hinge? Or is this not in the realms of lathes\mills ?


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## John. B (2 Dec 2009)

I've got one of these, A chester DBV7 great for making toolbits for the wood lathe.





John. B


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## Digit (2 Dec 2009)

Separate every time, same as with P/T or separates, and for the same reasons. 

Roy.


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## 9fingers (2 Dec 2009)

I've not used a combined machine but I guess if space is tight and you just want to do odd jobs there could be a place for them.

Milling requires great rigidity so make sure what ever you buy is up to the job.
The round column mill drills should be avoided if at all possible.

Making hinges? hardly worth the bother. Buy them and maybe modify on a mill if you need a special size.

Bob


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## Mr Ed (2 Dec 2009)

wizer":2s88g6j8 said:


> Are milling attachments on these 'hobby' end lathes worth having or is it better to have them separate?



I have a milling attachment for mine and its handy. I've never really used a milling machine so not in a position to compare, but I suspect a dedicated machine is always going to be far better. That said, the attachment is useful and for the small bits I do works well...I will reveal an example after Christmas Day.. :wink: 

Ed


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## jasonB (2 Dec 2009)

Yes I also have a small mill which I used for that traction engine but all the milling operations for the engine on this page were done on the lathe as its half the size at 18" long.

A lathe with the right attachments such as a vertical slide would allow you to make hinges. the little oil boxes on top of these bearing housings have hinged lids, the lid is 1/16" thick and the pins are 1/32 (only temp bent wire ones at the moment)

Jason

Jason


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## Digit (2 Dec 2009)

What make is the mill Jason?

Roy.


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## jasonB (2 Dec 2009)

> Making hinges? hardly worth the bother



Have you seen the price of Brusso's lately :wink: 

The mill is a X3 clone same as ARC Euro and Axminster do but I got it from Engineers Toolroom.

Fairly standard machine fitted with digital scales and remote readouts but I'm likely to change them in the near future for proper Glass Scales and DRO. The "calliper" type scale are too temprimental

Jason[/quote]


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## Digit (2 Dec 2009)

Cheers mate!

Roy.


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## wizer (2 Dec 2009)

Thanks, the idea would be to make something along the lines of Brusso quality but for lower costs (yes I know by the time you've factored in tooling it'll costs more, but tools don't count  ).

Metalworking will probably be my mid-life crisis. Or if my back really does get better, sod the tools, I'll be chasing women half my age and buying sports cars 8)


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## Harbo (2 Dec 2009)

I have a Milling attachment for my Unimat which has proved more than capable of cutting clock gear wheels, drilling accurate holes, slot sawing for knife making and milling the bottom of Aled's plane kit! 
Cannot post photos at the moment but have done so before. 
I also have a screw cutting attachment but no copying threads (they are very hard to find) but you can use existing screw threads to clone. 

Not as powerful as the others mentioned but very useful and such a tiny machine. 
There's a photo in one of the Unimat books showing one kept in an office filing cabinet - for when the manager has a spare moment?  

My friend as a MLSuper7 and has spent a fortune on accessories over the years - another slippery slope? We were looking at the Seig X3 at the Midlands ME Show - looks like a good machine. 

Rod


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## Escudo (2 Dec 2009)

Thanks for all the replies fellas.

I am going to take stock and give some further thought to a metal working lathe. Lots of information in the above posts to study.

I spotted this on the bay, looks interesting;

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320455184247&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

The C3 route via Euro Arc is perhaps the best modern approach. I noticed that they provide a set-up and fettling service (3 month wait !) for a reasonable £120 fee.

I also found the Cowells site. Very nice but expensive. I wonder if a second hand ME90 might just surface.

http://www.cowells.com/90me.htm

The cost and quantity of tooling also requires thought. The advantage of buying secondhand is the chance to bag some tooling with the lathe.

Great response, thanks again for all thoughts and comments.

Cheers, Tony.


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## seaco (2 Dec 2009)

This is my Myford Super 7 and I wouldn't be without it now, as I was told while I was looking "you can do small stuff on a big lathe but you can't do big stuff on a small lathe" which makes sense the Myford was about the biggest I could fit in my workshop...

I have been to Axminster and it's a bit hit and miss on quality if you can find a good Myford you won't be dissapointed with the quality!


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## 9fingers (2 Dec 2009)

Escudo":3g8x275b said:


> The cost and quantity of tooling also requires thought. The advantage of buying secondhand is the chance to bag some tooling with the lathe.
> 
> 
> Cheers, Tony.



Tony, If you buy secondhand from a dealer, they will be likely to strip out all but the very basic of accessories to sell separately.
Private secondhand sales and workshop clearances are best value.

Bob


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## jimi43 (2 Dec 2009)

Really weird...I am working on an early Myford too....£150 on fleaBay..






The spindle has no play at all, the bearing surfaces are fine and I think (once I get it set up properly), that it will be a fine machine.

The only problem with one of these vintage (ML1 to ML4) pre-war machines is spare parts...I am having a hell of a job getting a pulley countershaft setup (missing) in order to drive it. I want to retain the originality and flat belt but thought I could drive a V-belt motor pulley via a countershaft fitted with a V-belt pulley to motor and flat pulley to lathe.






This is work in progress....so if anyone on UKW forum has any bits they want to sell...especially the drive train bits...I would love to hear from them...

Jim


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## 9fingers (3 Dec 2009)

Jim,
Are you a member of the myfordlathes yahoo group?
This would be a good route to discuss restoration and possible sources of parts for these early lathes.
The group is well moderated and the posts are kept well focused.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/myfordlathes/


Bob


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## Boz62 (3 Dec 2009)

Escudo":3fjfx5qb said:


> I wonder if a second hand ME90 might just surface.


There's one for sale here. Still expensive though.

Boz


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## jimi43 (3 Dec 2009)

9fingers":kkotujmw said:


> Jim,
> Are you a member of the myfordlathes yahoo group?
> This would be a good route to discuss restoration and possible sources of parts for these early lathes.
> The group is well moderated and the posts are kept well focused.
> ...



No Bob...I had not thought of that...thanks very much for sparking that thought and the link..I will sign up post haste!

I am already a member of the INCA forum and, though not exactly super active...those threads that do appear are hugely useful and as you say, very specific!

I am not sure whether I will be keeping this little baby....I am tempted and I have the space for that and the large "T.Taylor" that I use for wood now...so maybe she will be a keeper...I too want to turn up some finer metal bits and bobs...and the Taylor is just too butch for that...OH...and archaic!!

Cheers Bob.

Jim


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

I'm always surprised when I hear that Yahoo groups and the like are still going. Such a bizarre and frustrating method of communication.


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## 9fingers (3 Dec 2009)

Why bizarre Tom?

At least they offer some file storage which is more than in here
They also host the photos. They are also free to both organiser and users

Different maybe, bizarre? I can't really agree.

Bob


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

Must be an age thing Bob.  It just seems such an old fashion way of communicating. Many of those old boards evolved into proper forums (like here). I take your point about storage but that's a specific issue with the method in which this place is run


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## jimi43 (3 Dec 2009)

I find them very sedentary....not a hive of activity like here....

I use the photo sections and the files but once you download all the interesting files to your PC...then they tend not to be much use. I find they are great crossovers for finding where the real forums are though!

    

Jim


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## jlawrence (3 Dec 2009)

There's one yahoo group which I still follow - UKHA - about home automation in the UK. It still gets at least 10 posts a day. I think they now have a forum as well.
Uploading photo's etc (or rather not) is a choice that Charlie made.
I've no idea what resources Charlie has available for hosting this site. If he wants to discuss alternative hosting, I've sure I could persuade my other directors to offer some sort of sponsorship deal.


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## wizer (3 Dec 2009)

I believe UKW is run on a dedicated server. He has the resources, just not the time nor inclination.


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## Boz62 (4 Dec 2009)

Thanks Bob. I signed up to the myfordlathes yahoo group, and after many years searching, I now have a scan of the original manual and brochure for my ML2 . It's lovely to see the original docs - very quaint! Also downloaded an ML7 manual so I can dream 

I use Yahoo Groups like a forum - just select "web access" mode and then group by subject. Bit clunky but I've seen worse. And as said, they do include file hosting. 

Boz


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## Escudo (4 Dec 2009)

Here is another expensive option from Wabeco;

http://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk/P...0ELathe/tabid/202/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

Looks nice doesn't it?

Still mulling over whether to bid for that Unimat on the bay.

T


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## jimi43 (4 Dec 2009)

Yes Bob...and Boz!

I got the manual too...and that was wonderful...I was really wondering which blinkin' model I actually had....

This solved all of that! It's an ML1

I didn't realise that the ML1 and ML2 differ only on bed length and swing...

Now all I need is the motor countershaft and pulleys/belts and I am well away! One up on fleaBay now so _maybe_ I will get this baby going soon!

Ta guys!

Jim


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## rileytoolworks (5 Dec 2009)

Escudo, just seen this on the Bay. Item number 190353594474. No bids so far and it looks in pretty good nick. When I had a metalwork lathe, I wanted to upgrade to this, but I'm a 'family man' now, so can't indulge my little fantasies...


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## jimi43 (5 Dec 2009)

That's an ML7 clone isn't it Riley? If it is that is a great price indeed!!

I checked out the SIEG Axminster jobbies at Axminster this morning and I was quite impressed that they are quite solid construction but to get a screwfeed one you won't get much change out of £450 with accessories (required like steel etc..) and I think there are better bargains on fleaBay.

I am still on the look out for an older UNIMAT....I think they are really great machines.

Jim


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## newt (5 Dec 2009)

Escudo":rjky9b4a said:


> Here is another expensive option from Wabeco;
> 
> http://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk/P...0ELathe/tabid/202/language/en-GB/Default.aspx
> 
> ...



Escudo, the unimat is ok but you will often wish you had something bigger. I have a Hobymat which is good but I could not resist getting a Myford super 7, it is just a superb machine. However I think as Bob says not cheap.


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## dickm (5 Dec 2009)

Not much use to you southerners, but there are *two* Ml7's and a "Myford-type" lathe for sale from different advertisers in our local Free ad paper this week. £380-480.


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## Escudo (5 Dec 2009)

Thanks for that tip Riley. The lathe looks like a good buy, but seems as though it will require a fair bit of fettling, making good.

I think your right Newt, the little Unimat is just a bit too small. 

I am going to keep an eye out on the bay. There is no immediate hurry, as I also need to finally decide about that new workshop.
:?


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## Dibs-h (5 Dec 2009)

Escudo":mpil2n6z said:


> Thanks for that tip Riley. The lathe looks like a good buy, but seems as though it will require a fair bit of fettling, making good.
> 
> I think your right Newt, the little Unimat is just a bit too small.
> 
> ...



Escudo

I'm also thinking of a small metal working lathe - a Myford series 7 would be nice, but out of my budget. I've seen the following sort on the Bay alot,

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vintage-Myford-3- ... 19b81ccb2a

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Myford-lathe_W0QQ ... 45ef95272d

and inclined to entertain one - nearer to the time.


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## dchallender (6 Dec 2009)

Just found this - a bargain for someone really 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/lathe_W0QQite...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item2a0300e238


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## Boz62 (6 Dec 2009)

For the price of an ML7 you can get a decent small Boxford. Lovely lathes, I was taught on one all those years ago. But there is the eternal problem that they are industrial/school lathes so you need to really be careful of wear. And they are also the next size up from an ML7, with a large built-in cabinet for the motor underneath. So you need space and a heavy duty floor. With the ML7 you can build it onto a sturdy worktop in a corner and have storage space under, and the spares and fittings are very easy to get, if pricey.

Dibs - those two vintage ebay Myfords are a prewar ML1 or 2 and a wartime M-type (the Drummond design). They are perfectly adequate for small fittings and knobs, and in their day were used for some excellent model engineering. But they are showing their age these days and spares are a nightmare. I'm lucky in that my ML2 has been in the family for 50-odd years with only light use, and has the right bits to make it usable, you just need to find one like it 

Boz [still dreaming of an ML7 ]


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## 9fingers (6 Dec 2009)

A regular scan of this site can throw up some bargains

http://www.homeworkshop.org.uk/latest.html

There are some traders ads there but they have to declare their business. The rest are usually genuine private ads for machines the seller has owned for some time.

You can also post wanted ads there.

Bob


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## Dibs-h (6 Dec 2009)

Boz62":k8ycuotu said:


> For the price of an ML7 you can get a decent small Boxford. Lovely lathes, I was taught on one all those years ago. But there is the eternal problem that they are industrial/school lathes so you need to really be careful of wear. And they are also the next size up from an ML7, with a large built-in cabinet for the motor underneath. So you need space and a heavy duty floor. With the ML7 you can build it onto a sturdy worktop in a corner and have storage space under, and the spares and fittings are very easy to get, if pricey.
> 
> Dibs - those two vintage ebay Myfords are a prewar ML1 or 2 and a wartime M-type (the Drummond design). They are perfectly adequate for small fittings and knobs, and in their day were used for some excellent model engineering. But they are showing their age these days and spares are a nightmare. I'm lucky in that my ML2 has been in the family for 50-odd years with only light use, and has the right bits to make it usable, you just need to find one like it
> 
> Boz [still dreaming of an ML7 ]



Cheers Boz - will bear that in mind when I get round to it - will seek advice nearer the time. Will probably have to stop watching them on the Bay - if a cheap'ish one turned up - I wouldn't have anywhere to put it!

Cheers

Dibs


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