# Lie-Nielsen No. 10 1/4 Jack Rabbeting Plane



## Anonymous (30 Jun 2007)

Anybody got one?

What do you think to it? What do you use it for?

I saw RC using one to helop fit his drawers, and have been tempted ever since - apparently I have enough LN planes though (I am told)


----------



## Scrit (30 Jun 2007)

I don't have the L-N, but I do use a Record #010 for cleaning-up/adjusting joinery-size tenon cheeks and shoulders. I was surprised a few years back to see this type of plane used in a joinery shop specialising in manufacturing hardwood conservatories so I tried one and found it to be just right, especially for cleaning-up hand-cut tenons such as those done on site. 

I've recently been using mine to trim stub tenons on joist ends where the joist ends were dropped into blind mortises in wooden wall plates. I found it much quicker and easier to use a plane than a chisel to tune the tenons.

Scrit


----------



## David C (30 Jun 2007)

Agreed.

Great plane. We used a lot, for fitting large tennons on my bench construction.

David C


----------



## Lord Nibbo (30 Jun 2007)

Like David says you ain't lived until you try one on a large tenon, I mean big tenons like whats in this....

















The swiveling tote and knob make it soooo easy, infact I was so impressed I thought I would try it shooting :roll: Yes think about it !!!! it [email protected]@@ed up my shooting board real fast (homer) doooh! :lol:


----------



## MarcW (30 Jun 2007)

Hi Tony,

Of course it is an excellent plane. Sure there is a but. You won't use it much. As the iron's edge is straight and not cambered, you don't use it for smoothing or jointing, okay that's clear. The shavings clogg in the cavities of the sides, because they have the width of the iron which is bigger than the inner width from on side to another. After each pass you will have to fiddle out the shaving. The plane is excellent for rabbets, but it has no fence and you will have to work to a marking, because it hasn't a depth stop either. Mine hangs a lot in the tool cabinet, but in a few situations, it is the tool that saves my day. I think of joints that are too big for a shoulder plane or a rabbet block plane.

All these reasons are to convince you that you need one :lol:


----------



## Lord Nibbo (30 Jun 2007)

MarcW":33o4xj9d said:


> Hi Tony,
> 
> You don't use it for smoothing or jointing, okay that's clear. The shavings clogg in the cavities of the sides,


:shock: :shock: :shock: 

But I have used it to joint with, OK it was only an inch wide but it works 

:lol: :wink:


----------



## MarcW (1 Jul 2007)

LN can you tell then how you joint with a straight edged iron? I perfectly realize how you can establish a slight hollw in the length of a board's edge but how can you adjust squareness of the edge to the face without a cambered blade? Given that you do not use Aldren A. Watson's recommendation of setting the blade at uneven depth with the lateral adjustment, which I find works but is at some point a trial and error method for finding the right adjustment, I'd be really enjoyed to learn a new (for me) method. :wink: 

Here is what I mean, a light out of squareness of the edge:






And here is what I get with a cambered blade of a LN #7 tuned to a smoother:






p.s. You have a nice pair of dogs 8) And did you som wip pics of the hanging bench?


----------



## Lord Nibbo (1 Jul 2007)

MarcW":vdvfu108 said:


> LN can you tell then how you joint with a straight edged iron? I perfectly realize how you can establish a slight hollw in the length of a board's edge but how can you adjust squareness of the edge to the face without a cambered blade? Given that you do not use Aldren A. Watson's recommendation of setting the blade at uneven depth with the lateral adjustment, which I find works but is at some point a trial and error method for finding the right adjustment, I'd be really enjoyed to learn a new (for me) method. :wink:
> 
> 
> p.s. You have a nice pair of dogs 8) And did you som wip pics of the hanging bench?



First let me say I don't normally use the 10 1/4 for jointing, I usually run any wood over my jointer thats why I bought it :lol: but if a hand plane is handy I still might finish with hand plane, I do use the lateral adjustment for squareness to some extent but for me it's down to how you use the plane or should I say how you hold it, how you position it on the wood, how much pressure you exert on one side or the other, it's something I cant really explain in black and white, I suppose it comes down to years of expierience using a plane, I don't really know maybe it was down to my teacher :lol: perhaps our Mr DC could shed some light on it?  

Re: The Swing seat, there is a thread on the actual seat 

It starts HERE

Then it moved on to HERE 

Then HERE


and Finally HERE


----------



## Paul Chapman (1 Jul 2007)

MarcW":i2kgfjs8 said:


> can you tell then how you joint with a straight edged iron?



There was a long-running thread on here some time ago about this, with some saying it was impossible to joint with a straight edge blade and other saying it was possible. The issue, unsurprisingly, was never resolved. Since then I have given the matter a lot of thought. I feel that you can joint with a straight blade and here's my reasoning.

If you joint a piece of wood using a shooting board and a straight blade, you will find that you get a true edge, 90 degrees across its width. However, some people will tell you that you can't do this planing freehand. Why? The only difference is that with the shooting board the plane is kept at 90 degrees to the wood, bearing as it does on the base of the shooting board. When planing freehand, there is a tendency, particularly when the shaving is engaged in the mouth of the plane, for the plane to follow the unevenness across the width of the board. It therefore follows that if you are able to overcome this tendency for the plane to follow the unevenness of the board by skillful freehand control of the plane, you can in fact plane true with a straight blade.

I agree it's not easy for some, but it can be done.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## mr (1 Jul 2007)

Paul Chapman":2r5duqvu said:


> MarcW":2r5duqvu said:
> 
> 
> > can you tell then how you joint with a straight edged iron?
> ...



I joint ( & smooth ) with a straight edged iron, I have square edges and no trackmarks (when I'm done smoothing). Praps I just haven't seen the light but I don't really understand how a cambered iron will leave you with a square edge. I've read David C s book but it seems easier to me to just control the plane properly rather than make adjusted passes at different parts of the board to "scallop" down to square. Granted that controlling the plane "properly" is easier said than done but its certainly possible with practice and attention to the task in hand so to speak. 

Cheers Mike


----------



## Paul Chapman (1 Jul 2007)

mr":kr9ezk5o said:


> I joint ( & smooth ) with a straight edged iron



\/ \/ 

I think a lot comes down to how you were taught to do it. My woodworking teacher at school back in the 1950s taught me how to joint two pieces of wood by planing them together using a straight blade. Where the thickness of the wood allows it, I still remain convinced that this is the most foolproof way to do it. I didn't realise I had a problem till I joined this forum and started reading DC's stuff :lol: In fairness, I've tried DC's method with the curved blade and it works as well, so I can now do it both ways. But I still find the straight blade method and, when possible, planing both boards together, to be the best. But it's very much a personal preference thing, so whatever works for you as they say :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## mr (1 Jul 2007)

As you say it's probably a case of however you started. I don't "get" the curved thing and haven't tried it though it obviously works just as well if not better than any other method. As for matchplaning it's foolproof but not as satisfying as having two separately prepared straight edges. Hmmm I think I'm turning into a nerd. Some would say I started that way. :wink:

Cheers Mike


----------



## Paul Chapman (1 Jul 2007)

mr":2f6b7sm7 said:


> I don't "get" the curved thing



You really need to see the DVD to understand it properly - I didn't get it till I saw it.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Philly (1 Jul 2007)

The advantage of the cambered iron is in removing wind - if the board is true then a straight iron will work fine.
Only my take on it,
Philly


----------



## AHoman (1 Jul 2007)

Philly":l6pxk8yy said:


> The advantage of the cambered iron is in removing wind - if the board is true then a straight iron will work fine.
> Only my take on it,



Here is a link to a friend's site:
http://www.dalehelms.com/gallery.html
He does all of his jointing with a straight iron, and with a relatively short wooden plane. I've spoken to him about it several times, and he uses pressure on one or the other side to take out wind. So for me, having seen the results, there is no question that it _can_ be done either way (straight or cambered iron), provided the user has the skill to do it.
-Andy


----------



## Lord Nibbo (1 Jul 2007)

I think the point DC is making by using a curved iron, by leaving a slight hollow to any two faces when they are glued up and clamped it's easier to get the edges together, or am I wrong? probably where's my coat. :lol:


----------



## Paul Chapman (1 Jul 2007)

What I find interesting is that I've seen DVDs on planing by David Charlesworth, Rob Cosman and Jim Kingshott, and read books by them and many others, and they all work slightly differently. I've found it very useful to draw on all their experiences. I don't think there is any one absolute right way, just lots of different ways to suit the circumstances, the tools available and personal preferences.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Paul Kierstead (1 Jul 2007)

mr":2himotsr said:


> I joint ( & smooth ) with a straight edged iron, I have square edges and no trackmarks (when I'm done smoothing).



Do you joint starting from a rough board or S4S (or power jointed)? I have had very limited success jointing boards from the rough with a straight iron. I can't seen anyway to control the plane within half a degree just trying to manipulate it's position, and not for lack of trying. Maybe with enough practice I can.


----------



## mr (1 Jul 2007)

HI Paul K , 
Sorry I'm not sure what you mean by S4S. The boards I'm using are rough sawn planks which I then dress, face & edge etc with handplanes of one sort or another. I'm by no means an expert like some round these parts but I do seem to be doing a lot of it and doing a lot of it is certainly one way to get better at it.

I think as Paul C says I'm going to have to see the DVD, got the book so I should see the film I think  One of my problems with the whole cambered blade thing is that I'm no great shakes in the sharpening stakes and I have the horrors when it comes to making square irons round. 

Again as Paul C said it's a probably a case of different strokes etc, what works for me may not work for thee. 

Cheers Mike


----------



## mr (1 Jul 2007)

Lord Nibbo":cydh7x26 said:


> I think the point DC is making by using a curved iron, by leaving a slight hollow to any two faces when they are glued up and clamped it's easier to get the edges together, or am I wrong? probably where's my coat. :lol:


 You can plane an edge slightly hollow with a square edged iron quite easily though. It's just a case of getting the thing straight and square to start and then taking a few stopped shavings from the middle section of the edge. If you do that to both edges that you're going to join your edges should close up nicely. Or isn't that what you meant? 

Cheers Mike


----------



## bugbear (2 Jul 2007)

Tony":2nhg1a0u said:


> Anybody got one?
> 
> What do you think to it? What do you use it for?
> 
> I saw RC using one to help fit his drawers, and have been tempted ever since - apparently I have enough LN planes though (I am told)



Mr Cosman is adept at finding uses for LN tools - he has invented the neccessity of a skew rebate block plane for dovetailing!!

However, for anyone tempting to drop the big money for #10 (of any persuasion) I would recommend picking up a wooden skew rebate. Apart from some minor complexities to be considered in the tuning they are an excellent and versatile tool.

At car boot prices, they're also stupidly cheap (under a fiver).

BugBear


----------



## AHoman (10 Jul 2007)

bugbear":1t8rt0ae said:


> Rob Cosman [...] has invented the neccessity of a skew rebate block plane for dovetailing!!



I thought that Rob learned that from Alan Peters. At any rate, I hardly think that he would say that it is a "neccessity" -- after all, he's got two dovetailing videos in which that technique and tool are not used.
-Andy


----------

