# Child friendly wood/paint



## stevebuk (16 Jan 2008)

hi guys
i am making some wooden animals and jisaw puzzles for children to play with at a farm park we are building at our garden centre. I wanted to know what type of wood and paint i can use safely, i emailed offsted the other night who replied sending me to a website about nutrition and general well being, nothing there i needed to know, so who can i contact regarding this, or do you know what is legal????


----------



## PowerTool (16 Jan 2008)

Don't know of a good source of reference,but suitable paints and finishes (I believe) will be marked "EN71 - safe for toys"
As for timbers,would have thought any of the food-safe ones would be ok (beech,sycamore,maple etc)

Andrew


----------



## Russell (17 Jan 2008)

Try West country paints they will have all the info you need. Their paints are a little expensive though


----------



## chunkolini (17 Jan 2008)

Hi Steve
I have been involved in this one in the past, best described as a minefield. in my previous existence I was a careworker running a craft group. The old memory is a bit rusty, However.

I can remember being asked to provide COSH (Control Of substances Hazardous to Health) data sheets regards materials used. Surprisingly you can ring most materials providers and they will send you the data sheets just like that. Then you have to translate them into english and establish what 'Safe' is because they dont tell you.

Then if children will be involved there are so many other checks and fanningyabouts, in terms of testing and controls involved we gave up.

I would say be very very careful because if little Tarquin tries to eat the wooden tortoise or whack his brother over the head with it Mummy and Daddykins will probably try to sue your ass off, and if they can afford good lawyers will probably succeed.

This is why this kind of stuff is so ridiculously expensive in the catalogues.

Drives you up the wall. Then have a look at dodgy chinese toys in third world countries and see why we have all these seemingly absurd laws.

Good luck and be careful.

All the best, Chunko.


----------



## stevebuk (17 Jan 2008)

thanks guys, hmm not sure if i'll bother with it, its a shame you cant do something for your fellow man without the fear of if something goes wrong, they will bleed you to death.
oh well, back to the drawing board..


----------



## chunkolini (17 Jan 2008)

Sorry to be such a gloom monger.

Ho Hum, Chunko.


----------



## Paul.J (17 Jan 2008)

Hello Steve.
Try This
Last time i bought it i got it from Focus Do It All.
HTH.
Paul.J.


----------



## Gill (17 Jan 2008)

I'm hesitant to contradict Chunkolini because he may know something about the law that I don't. However, paints are regularly sold directly to children by toy shops and if the advice he's given is correct, that would be a very surprising state of affairs.

Gill


----------



## chunkolini (18 Jan 2008)

Hi Gill

I did a lot of research into this one. The paints are fine, the problem is as soon as you start letting the general public loose with something you have made it opens a whole new ball game. There are tests that have to be done etc etc etc. This is why a lot of wooden 'toys' are sold as ornaments and 'not to be used'. A coverall that is not worth anything if little Tarquin manages to eat one of them or whatever.

We made a load of sets of bricks, stained and Danish oiled them and had to bin the lot.

Chunko.


----------



## Gill (18 Jan 2008)

Hi Chunko

I'm still surprised that was the conclusion you came to as a result of your investigations. The regulations you cite (COSHH) have been produced under Health & Safety at Work legislation and since the children are not at work, they're not subject to it.

To the best of my knowledge, all paint and finishes sold by retailers in the EU have to conform to safety standards which are so stringent as to make them suitable for children to handle. Steve should be fine with whatever product he buys from a retailer. Can you imagine the situation otherwise? DIY shops would have to carry warnings that their paints were not suitable for environments where children would be present.

Gill


----------



## Terry Smart (18 Jan 2008)

Hi All

As mentioned, COSHH only really covers products during application, storage and transportation etc, not really the effects they could have as (in this case) a dried film.

I don't think it's entirely correct to say that any product sold by a retailer would be suitable for use on toys; whilst they will be safe in most uses toys/nursery furniture gets slightly different use to say emulsion paint used for a ceiling. There's a difference between children being present and being able to pick items up and put them in their mouth, which is the main thing being tested for.
Toys are tested to EN-71 regulations as already stated and only products that pass are deemed safe for children. Several of our finishes have been tested for this use which is something we have to send them away for and pay for the privilege.


----------



## chunkolini (18 Jan 2008)

Gill
You have misunderstood me there. The problem rises when the items made are not for home consumption. Once they become available to the public they have to be approved for want of a better word. eg things like smal parts coming off and being eaten, or leaving sharp extremities etc etc.

Of course we can all make these decisions for ourselves and our families as we know what we are doing, but involve the public and step into a minefield in these litigatious times.

I did work in Social Services, and they are some of the weirdest organisations to work within, especially regards risk assessments and health and safety.

Chunko.


----------



## Gill (18 Jan 2008)

Hi Chunko

I can only imagine what life's like working for social services, although I'd rather not  ! After completing my law degree, I joined the RAF and was trained as a Health & Safety Officer, amongst many other responsibilites. It was incredible the number of people who came along claiming work matters which inconvenienced them were Health & Safety issues and therefore of paramount importance. You'd be astonished at some of the ridiculous notions people had; all too often it was because they were scared by potential legal ramifications which they did not understand.

The Health & Safety Executive is actually quite a small body and is more concerned with encouraging safe practice than it is with prosecuting those who transgress. Yet the public has somehow been scared into seeing the HSE as some sort of all-powerful, persecuting ogre. It's almost as if people won't act unless they have been expressly given permission to do so, whereas in reality they could be interpreting a lack of specific prohibition as a freedom to act so long as whatever precautions appear to be sensible and reasonable are taken.

Gill


----------



## stevebuk (18 Jan 2008)

thank you all for your contributions, i know its a minefield out there today, so i found the HSE phone No. and will ring them on tuesday, meanwhile i have emailed them also.
is there anything else i should know regarding tarquin and his ready to sue mother, as i know there will be someone waiting in the wings , one day..


Terry, i must admit, i was going to buy some of your acrylic varnish, i take it that is ok for what i am doing??


----------



## Terry Smart (21 Jan 2008)

Hi Steve

Yes, any of our acrylic lacquers would be suitable for this job, as would many others (see http://www.chestnutproducts.co.uk/faq.asp for a full list).

We haven't tested all of our products as we don't think all of them will stand up to the (ab)use a toy might get, but this doesn't imply that they are 'dangerous', only that we didn't want to make this more complicated than it already is!

It depends how far you want to go with this, I would be happy to supply the details of the testing organisation we use and you could have your work tested for issues other than the finish.

Good luck!


----------



## stevebuk (21 Jan 2008)

thank you Terry but there will be no need for it, i have decided that the few animals and puzzles i was going to give the kids to play with are now in the bin, its just not worth the effort.
I will however still be buying some of your acrylic varnish and sanding sealer though.
many thanks
steve


----------

