# Semi Mystery Scroll/Fretsaw....



## Cret (26 Jun 2016)

Hey guys - I just picked up my first scrollsaw/fretsaw and am excited to start having a play with it but this thing is a bit of a mystery.
It's a "Faithfull FPP FS16". 

Now I know the brand Faithfull and have some hand tools of theirs, but I cannot find anything at all on Google to show that they did this saw! I'm certain it's just another brand's saw with their own labelling on it, like so many power tools are, but the question is which?
It works well it seems apart from the 'on' switch does not latch on (so I got it cheap), has a two speed rocker switch, a hatch at the rear with spare blades, and has an air blower too. The air blower is pretty pathetic and I can't even really imaging it having the strength to blow any dusts out of the way, but I presume the theory is to help clear the cut of dust to make a cleaner cut and keep the cut lines more visible.

Are the air pumps usually so gutless on these things? I can only just feel air coming out really.

Anyway - great to have it, but if anyone is able to shed some light on what model this actually is (ie if you were to remove the stickers that Faithfull have put on it), I'd be super grateful.
The top half of it looks like several other ones, but the bottom half doesn't look like any ones I've seen on google images so it's a bit of a mystery.

Just very odd not to be able to find out anything about it really, but great to have a fretsaw now, and I'm happy to have paid £50 for it.

Thanks!
Jim


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## scrimper (26 Jun 2016)

Have to admit I have never seen one like this, there are lot's of banded saws around that you can see follow one basic design but this one looks quite different in several ways. The blowers on these saws are frankly pretty useless, they are usually a tiny bellows about 1" diameter and the same height compared to the 4" bellows fitted to the Hegner saws, my Diamond has it's own electric air pump to blow the dust away.

A lot of the cheaper saws have a tension adjuster on the top at the back yours does not appear to have that.

Be interested in what you find out about this saw, I have looked through all my old scroll-saw magazines and cannot find anything even similar!


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## Cret (26 Jun 2016)

Thanks Scrimper - the plot thickens then!

I've ordered a new NVR switch for it as I opened up the one it has, cleaned the terminals etc, but cannot get it to remain on when pressed so I have to assume the coil in it has carked it! Was about a tenner for a replacement anyway. And a load of olson blades on the way as I've read they are good quality ones to have.

Does an air pump make a noticeable difference to the quality/finish of the cut? I do have an old fish tank air pump that would probably do for this, or could even make an attachment to plumb it into my workshop compressed air feed.

I want to mostly use this for cutting pen blanks in order to segment them with veneers etc, so generally pieces with approx 20-30mm thick going into it. 
I know fretsaws are often used for thin and delicate pieces but do they cope ok with pieces this sort of thickness? The blades I've ordered are assorted TPI so I can experiment at least.

There is a tensioner directly on top though. The yellow knob on the top blade clamp is the tensioner.
It uses 5" pinless blades, which secure in place with an allen key that releases sprung tension/compression on the blade ends.

Really seems weird that I can't find anything online about this saw despite the known brand and model number, not even one that looks identical.


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## martinka (26 Jun 2016)

I've been having a good search and looked through hundreds of images, to no avail. Maybe it was the only one made. 

You *might* find the blower is adequate. It only really needs to blow the sawdust away from the blade so you can see the line you are cutting. You don't want it so powerful that it blows all over the shop, or, as often happens, in your face. Nevertheless, as Scrimper points out, they are pretty useless a lot of the time, and the bellows have a tendency to split. I'd alter it so it blows the sawdust to the side, or even better, away from you altogether.


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## Claymore (26 Jun 2016)

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## scrimper (26 Jun 2016)

Cret":uve3g1bg said:


> Does an air pump make a noticeable difference to the quality/finish of the cut? I do have an old fish tank air pump that would probably do for this, or could even make an attachment to plumb it into my workshop compressed air feed.



As Martin states the only purpose of the blower is to keep the cutting line clear, it has no effect on cut quality, before I had an electric fretsaw I used a hand frame and a hobbies treadle machine and the process was to keep blowing (using your mouth!) the sawdust away from the cut and it was annoying, when I went electric it was a revelation having the machine doing the 'blowing'! Your fish tank air pump would do the job in fact my diamond fretsaw was manufactured and supplied with such a blower fitted.

Should also point out that many on here do prefer to use suction to collect the dust rather than a blower and in the interests of personal safety I can quite understand why they do so, but I have always used the blower method as my Hegner is lovely and quiet and I don't want a noisy vac to spoil the experience. Spend some time on the saw cutting mahogany (without suction) using the blower then blow your nose and see the brown dust on your hankie to prove it!


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## Cret (26 Jun 2016)

Brian - interesting that you found another one like that. I never use Bing admittedly but on Google I came up with nothing really.

The saw does have a vac attachment so I'll probably try that to see how it cuts with it, but keep air going over the top also as being able to see your marking lines is more than a bit useful!
I've ordered some assorted tpi blades but might try some spiral ones too as I like the idea of being able to move a piece in any direction. Hopefully the switch and the blades will arrive in the next few days.


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## martinka (26 Jun 2016)

I wonder, going by the shape of the frame, if it is a 'C-arm' type saw?

Spiral blades are horrible things, though they keep selling them, so someone must like them.


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## Cret (26 Jun 2016)

Not familiar with the term sorry Martin - scroll/fret saws all look mainly the same to me at this stage I must confess!

What is it that's so bad about spiral blades? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm a newbie to scroll saws so am ignorant of what's good & what's not.


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## Claymore (26 Jun 2016)

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## Claymore (26 Jun 2016)

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## Cret (26 Jun 2016)

Thanks Brian

Yes indeed Isle of Man - just had TT week a couple of weeks ago and enjoyed a week off for it, albeit looking after the kids on their time off school, and as my bike is dead, no joining in for me this year (sort of for the best to be honest).
Wonderful place to live all year round though really - very fortunate to be here and to be able to raise the sprogs here.

And yeah, my nose is no stranger to getting really fine sawdust coating it. I should have learned properly by my age really. I think the worst wood I've found so far for this is Wenge. It's just sooooo fine the dust from it!


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## Claymore (26 Jun 2016)

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## scrimper (26 Jun 2016)

Cret":1sirjnhz said:


> I've ordered some assorted tpi blades but might try some spiral ones too as I like the idea of being able to move a piece in any direction. Hopefully the switch and the blades will arrive in the next few days.



I would recommend reverse tooth blades, IMHO spiral blades are very difficult to use and control as they cut in all directions without turning the work-piece. If you look closely at a spiral blade you will see that it is actually a normal blade that has been twisted.


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## Walney Col (27 Jun 2016)

Cret":1hfgfg15 said:


> What is it that's so bad about spiral blades? Sorry if that's a stupid question but I'm a newbie to scroll saws so am ignorant of what's good & what's not.


There's not a thing wrong with spiral blades providing you can worth with the fact that they leave a slightly wider kerf and the holes required for inside cuts need to be slightly larger than for flat blades. I stack-cut the brass plate and 1/32 ply parts for this entirely with spirals..










https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfDgPGfF5Vw

And one of the most outstanding scrollers I've evr seen (Charles Dearing) uses nothing BUT spiral blades.

Col.


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## Claymore (27 Jun 2016)

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## Aggrajag (28 Jun 2016)

You really shouldn't be examining your tissue for brown residue, just think what your lungs are like and they can't be blown clean! Get a good dust mask, not a paper one, and live longer and healthier.

("Mum says" mode disengaged.)

If you're bothered; I really rate the 3M 6200 half face mask with the 6035 P3 particulate filters.


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## Walney Col (28 Jun 2016)

Claymore":1pztn0np said:


> Long time no see Colin! hope your well? and have ya got the new workshop sorted yet? miss your clever ideas on here.
> Cheers
> Brian


Hi Brian.

Hi Brian, it's nice to be remembered! Unfortunately my health has taken a bit of a tumble since last year to the point where I seldom get out. The entire workshop has been sold, we moved back to Walney, and all I now have is a small scroll saw in the house I hope to be able to do odd bits on in the near future. Not sure exactly what I'll be doing yet but it's probably going to be a bit unusual whatever it is. 

Col.


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## martinka (28 Jun 2016)

Cret":2gjy7xw5 said:


> Not familiar with the term sorry Martin - scroll/fret saws all look mainly the same to me at this stage I must confess!



I started explaining and then thought, "this is the internet, it's already been done," so here you go. http://www.celticcrosseng.com/tag/scroll-saw/


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## Cret (29 Jun 2016)

Thanks Martin - yes, I think it is that type.

The new power switch came for it today so fitted that and it's fully operational now, and moved into my shed. Just waiting for nice sharp new blades now.....


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## Cret (29 Jun 2016)

Well the pack of new blades came today so I fitted one and gave it a test. It states that the blade is good for cutting up to 2" thick material but I used a bit of pine maybe an inch thick and it was very very slow going.

It also doesn't cut remotely straight, and I can see when I look from the front end of the saw towards the blade that the top is almost head on, but the further down the blade you look, it has a twist to it.
Hopefully there is some adjustment in the bottom blade clamp to align it, as it's not going to be that great otherwise. So far I've only noticed the allen key adjustment for clamping the blades at each end, but the bottom clamp is well hidden away anyway so tricky to see what else might be possible.


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## linkshouse (1 Jul 2016)

That sounds very odd. I would be very surprised if there is any adjustment for the blade angle.

There is just the outside chance that it is a duff blade so it may be worth checking with another blade.

It is also worth mentioning (sorry if you already know) that scrollsaw blades don't normally cut in the direction that you would imagine i.e. straight forwards.

This video on the Steve Good website explains and demonstrates the effect perfectly - http://www.stevedgood.com/school/video0006.html

Hope this helps.

Phill


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## Cret (1 Jul 2016)

Hmmm, Will check the blade but surely with the blades being so thin & delicate, any slight twist in the blade between one end and the other would be twisted straight by torsion from the clamps if they're both straight?

Thanks for the comment that they don't normally cut straight forward though as I completely did not realise that! The top end of the blade looks straight ahead, as if it would cut straight forwards, but then I have a similar issue with the cheap bandsaw I have, that no matter what I try, and no matter how deep the blades are, the cuts are never parallel to the edge of the table. It always cuts at an angle and I've gone through loads of ideas to prevent that.
Thanks for the video link! Just watched it and yes, that's exactly how it behaves - tis just like the bandsaw but more pronounced.

Very helpful cheers


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