# Great British Woodshop - What do you think now?



## Newbie_Neil (27 Jan 2004)

Hi all

I have now had a chance to see nine episodes of GBW and I must say that it is the best UK woodworking show that H & L have shown. Of course, special thanks must go to his NormNess for making it all possible by setting the standard.

For me, the big pluses have been recognising all of the tools (forget the tablesaw) and the way that he explains why he has used a particular joint. He is also not afraid to admit that he made a bad choice with his prototype and uses this as a positive to show how he has improved the final piece.

The minuses have been the lack of a saw available in the uk (I was expecting the Jet SS) and the way he will talk about something and then only show you the finished result. Oh, and his penchant for making cuts that are impossible without the guards being removed.

On balance, a very good show. Well done H & L.

Cheers
Neil

PS I didn't mention that four letter word once!!!

PPS I never did receive a reply from H & L or GBW about ***o b****s!!!!

PPPS Oops, sorry.


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## CYC (27 Jan 2004)

You couldn't have written a closer description of my view Neil :wink: 
I agree on every point. A very good show, best british woodworking show I have ever seen. I hope it stays on for as long as the NYW.


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## Anonymous (27 Jan 2004)

In agreement here too. Easy to follow, makeable projects, quite impressed really.

Aidan


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## Anonymous (27 Jan 2004)

I finally watched an episode this afternoon. Daughter (6) is off school and I'm (cough) working from home so that wifey can go to work herself. Not bad and well explained so ditto the comments above. Norm was on straight after and the fact that both use a table saw where most of us would go for a router (or band saw) does make me smile.

I was unlucky enough to see an episode of Cutting Edge Woodworker last night and found the presenting style utter pants. With H+L being invaded by house hunting tosh and ever increasing volumes of fishing programmes this was a waste of a DIY show as far as I was concerned.


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## Midnight (27 Jan 2004)

Neil...

On the whole, I'd agree with you. I haven't done an episode count but being off work these past 2 weeks has given me the chance to catch some of them. Leaving aside the technique issues (they've been thoroughly thrashed out in other posts), overall I was left with the impression that this was another opportunity missed. Granted the program is well enough presented, the bacis joinery used is done in such a way that I feel confident that I could do that myself with minimal tooling or jig purchases. 
The issue I have with each new project is the visits to the stately homes. OK, I'm all in favour of a little bit of history, but what's the point of showing you places like this, filled woth some of the best examples of THE best craftsmanship this country has produced, and then build something that's.... well.....not even close to the pieces discussed. 
If our wealth of fine craftsmanship isn't to be used as the core idea behind each project, why devote all that air time to plugging the National Trust.... 

As for Cutting Edge... Trevor... I'm with you... 

If this is the best we have to offer, Norm wont need to loose any sleep over maintaining his reputation of setting the bench mark. 

Damn shame really.....


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## Newbie_Neil (28 Jan 2004)

Hi Mike



Midnight":3q2u4tyn said:


> The issue I have with each new project is the visits to the stately homes. OK, I'm all in favour of a little bit of history, but what's the point of showing you places like this, filled woth some of the best examples of THE best craftsmanship this country has produced, and then build something that's.... well.....not even close to the pieces discussed.
> If our wealth of fine craftsmanship isn't to be used as the core idea behind each project, why devote all that air time to plugging the National Trust....



I remember reading somewhere that he used the visits to find a piece of furniture that inspired him and he would then produce the modern equivalent as opposed to copying the piece.

Cheers
Neil


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## sawdustalley (28 Jan 2004)

I have watched most, if not all of the episodes so far - I must admit after first enjoying it, I am now getting bored of it, sure the presenting is good, but some of the "not so good programs" have so much more interesting projects such as Smith and Sweetman and Cutting edge woodworker.

I totally agree, I think its pointless looking at these fantastic examples, today he looked at an extremly clever library table that unfolded into a ladder. His version was a dull simple stool, which was dead looking made out of boring coloured oak with some silly flop down step, why bother?. Yeah, then he varnished it :shock: 

I'm also getting FED UP with seeing the Trend Mortise and tennon jig being explained for about 2-5mins per episode (Use the bandsaw for once!) I think its been used in almost every project, and its just getting boring now "use this silly looking set-up bar blah blah blah"


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## Gill (29 Jan 2004)

How I agree with you, James!

I never want to see a Trend Mortice & Tenon Jig again. I enjoyed the first few episodes but that jig seems to have insidiously taken over the whole series. Tonight I had to be awakened from my slumbers whilst David Free was buzzing around the jig with his router - not even "Boyz In The Wood" ever had _that _effect on me!

Tonight, Mr Free even talked about 'milling' some wood. Surely woodwork shouldn't be as mechanical as this?

Opinionatedly yours

Gill


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## Newbie_Neil (29 Jan 2004)

Hi Gill

As you only come out of your bunker intermittently for fresh air, you couldn't possibly know that the Trend Mortice and Tenon jig has started on the road to world domination.

It is all a secret marketing plot by Trend to replace the Rat. All you do is start to use the same terminology as the "Ratters" and by association everyone will believe that the Trend Mortice and Tenon jig can do everything as least as well as the Rat.

My services have been secured by Trend to find out all of the weaknesses of the Rat in relation to the Trend Mortice and Tenon jig. To this end I am now in possession of most of the weak points of the Rat.

I fully expect the Trend Mortice and Tenon jig to achieve world domination by the 14th May. :wink: 

Oh no, I think I've given the game away!!! :roll: :roll: 

Cheers
Neil


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## Guest (29 Jan 2004)

I agree that it can become boring watching David Free set up and operate the Trend jig but compared to trying to set up my Record morticer makes it look very attractive to me. I make my tenons on the radial arm saw,not
as tricky to set up as the record but the results certainly don't look as clean and effective as on the Trend. I don't think I will buy one but if I had seen it before buying the morticer I would have been more than interested.You must remember that these programs are not just aimed at dedicated woodworkers like the members of this site.


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## Philly (29 Jan 2004)

Jaymar,
I have a "dedicated" mortiser in my shop-probably the worst tool I have bought! The fence/hold down is useless and constantly moves out of alignment and it is very hard work withdrawing the chisel. I have done all the tweaks, made a new seperate fence, new table, new clamping system and finally, an engineering x-y rolling table. Still this thing annoys and slows me down.
So when I saw the Trend jig being demo'd at Yandles show last year, I couldn't believe how simple and fast it was. Bought it straight away and haven't regreted it since. So I do understand why Mr Free uses his so much (as well as Trend being a sponser!!!).
Regards,
Philly

P.S. Does anyone want to buy a Mortising machine? 1 careful, half balding owner? No, oh well.


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## Anonymous (29 Jan 2004)

Trend jig, Trend jig............I must resist, I must resist..........I'm losing the battle.

Aidan.


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## Neil (29 Jan 2004)

Neil,

:lol: :lol: :lol: 

NeilCFD


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## frank (29 Jan 2004)

neil i must get a trend jig , what dovetail bits should i get will it take up less room than the rat  

frank :twisted:


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## Dewy (24 Feb 2004)

With all the various comments about using a table saw that isn't freely availible in UK wouldn't it be nice if they made a series using only tools easily obtained.
Another idea would be for all the tools to be aquired from one source. 
Not Sheppach etc but a DIY shed or similar.
Screwfix used to sponsor woodworking on Discovery H&L. 
Being owned by the same group who own B&Q they could sponsor a series with a garage workshop only using tools from these 2 easy to obtain sources.
OK. it may not show high quality work but would show novices the limitations from using such kit.
No dado cutters, no rodents & all jigs would have to be made with the tooling availible.
This would be ideal for those interested in woodworking and they could see the 'minimum' cost of setting up.


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## Gill (24 Feb 2004)

Garage workshop? Heck, Screwfix could even provide an alternative of their own ( http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro ... 3&id=19900 ).

Which is my way of saying that I agree wholeheartedly with you, Dewy  .

Yours

Gill


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## Bean (24 Feb 2004)

YES YES what a good Idea.................They could even cut a few joints using Hand Tools :shock: Just to show that when you start you dont need all those fancy power tools..............(Pushes cardboard in front of new jointer)  

Bean


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## Pete W (24 Feb 2004)

I'd strongly agree with that, too.

It would also be nice to see a long-term woodworking series that wasn't project-based. Which is to say, it could cover some projects but I'd like to see much more emphasis on techniques - joint-cutting and assembly, tool selection, use, care and sharpening, a discussion on dust-collection etc.

Most of all, I'd like one programme maker to credit us the viewers with some intelligence and not assume we have the attention span of a gnat. Do away with the 'creative' camera angles and ceaseless changes of viewpoint, and actually show us something interesting.

New Yankee Workshop is far from perfect but still, I think, the best. Great British Woodshop had some good aspects but ended up a pale imitation of NYW.


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## Anonymous (24 Feb 2004)

> It would also be nice to see a long-term woodworking series that wasn't project-based. Which is to say, it could cover some projects but I'd like to see much more emphasis on techniques - joint-cutting and assembly, tool selection, use, care and sharpening, a discussion on dust-collection etc.



Absolutely, I couldn't agree more Pete


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## Dewy (24 Feb 2004)

Unfortunately Pete, TV programme schedulers don't like such programmes. They want to see a project because they have a much wider viewing audience than woodworkers. I started watching NYW because I found it entertaining & used to pull holes in it for using power tools for everything. Eventually I bought a table saw & built up til my garage is almost full. Now I need a shed to store all the garden tools that used to have pride of place in there. Making the most of a small space instead of having a 40'x40' workshop would be ideal. 
The Workshop John Built had a good idea but was aimed at those with ten thousand pounds or so to throw around. Most people haven't got that kind of money. It was made even worse by the follow up series making most furniture from MDF (yuck)
I'd like to see a series staring with a blank canvas (an empty shed or garage) then building up the tools in the space availible. Making the benches then building simple projects as more tools are added. OK. This may cram many years for a normal person into one series but it would give some idea of what's needed.
I remember the great satisfaction I felt on completing my 1st coffee table, that was soon followed by small side tables to go by armchairs. 
No more bending down but everything at the same height as the arms. 
Once you know you can make one thing others soon follow.


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## Midnight (24 Feb 2004)

> I'd like to see a series staring with a blank canvas (an empty shed or garage) then building up the tools in the space availible. Making the benches then building simple projects as more tools are added


. 

Gets my vote Dewy.... but why confine the sponsorship to just Screwfix...bring the likes of Axminster on board too; raise the bar a little...

Just one pre-condition... no MDF...


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## Dewy (24 Feb 2004)

My idea was Screwfix/B&Q because everyone has heard of them. 
One is advertised on TV a lot & the other is in most towns.
Only those already into woodwork or other skills would know about Axminster. 
Plus, of course, many start out with cheap tools & only move up when they realise the limitations of them.


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## Bean (24 Feb 2004)

Best Idea for a program yet Dewy  

Build a workshop in a garage or shed using the comman tools avialiable to everyone.

I like others was disapointed by Johns Workshop, I wish I had that sort of money to spend and that sort of room to work in, Yes I agree what a waste of equipment to only work in MDF!!!


Bean


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## ColG (25 Feb 2004)

Modern tools, modern WOOD ha ha

Col :lol:


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## Jeff (25 Feb 2004)

Dewey, brilliant idea and yes restrict it to B&Q/Screwfix or any of the Shed!! available tools. Only those really interested in woodworking will have heard of Axminster. H&L should have a dedicated woodworking channel with no fishing or house hunting. I think we should petition H&l for a good workwork series for amateurs as you say without thousands of £s worth of tools. 
Jeff


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## Pete W (25 Feb 2004)

Dewy":364bs3ah said:


> Unfortunately Pete, TV programme schedulers don't like such programmes. They want to see a project because they have a much wider viewing audience than woodworkers.



You're right, of course. But given Discovery H&L's obvious difficulty in filling its schedule, you'd think they could find room for one *real* woodworking programme :roll:


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## Dewy (25 Feb 2004)

I should have suggested this to H&L when I thought of it last year. At the time they were asking for short videos of pasttimes that they showed later. I see that 2 of them now have their own fishing program.
I wonder if B&Q or Screwfix would give me the tools to do the series for them.


Now let's see........ The Screwfix BIG STUFF catalogue has a Startrite SC25
Pity it wont fit through my garage doors. :lol:


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## Gill (25 Feb 2004)

Hi folks

Awww, come on - give H&L a break! Am I the only one who remembers all the repeats of Bob Villa and 'Hometime'? Their latest offerings are a vast improvement on what has gone before.

Mind, I still think that a whole evening dedicated to fishing is beyond the pale. Crikey, they don't even barbecue the end product  !

Yours

Gill (who has an excellent barbecue sauce recipe if anyone has caught too many fish..)


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## Philly (26 Feb 2004)

Where has the mighty "Norm" gone H+L!!!?
You put him on some godforsaken hour in the middle of the night!
What is wrong with you! Where is the new series?
I remember when you showed "Day of Norm", so don't tell me there is no interest-ask the members of this forum.
a slightly miffed Philly :evil:


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## Dewy (26 Feb 2004)

I received this reply from H&L 27th December 2003.

[email protected]
Dear Sir/Madam,

Thank you for contacting Discovery Home & Leisure.

Unfortunately, we have no plans for a new series of 'New Yankee Workshop'. 

Our schedules are designed based on viewer feedback, and the popularity of programmes. We're sorry you've been disappointed on this occasion. We will forward your comments to our scheduling team for their consideration. 

We hope that you will continue to enjoy watching our channel.

Kind Regards,

Discovery Networks Europe Viewer Relations Team 

It falls to US to bombard them with email or phone calls to show the new season.
Phone+44 (0) 870 600 5646 between the hours of 0830 - 2200 GMT 
Phone No. from the Discovery Europe website


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## CYC (26 Feb 2004)

Ok, so you don't want the woodworking program to use expensive tools but it's okay to make projects worth a fortune in hardwood because you don't want to see MDF!!! I don't get it.

Veneered MDF sounds good to me in the right application. What projects did you see Dave using MDF wrongly?


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## Anonymous (26 Feb 2004)

I've not seen any of these programmes as I don't get sky or cable, but all that could be about to change.....they are expecting to launch a new subscription service over the freeview terrestrial digital bearer next month and discovery H&L will be one of the channels available - subscription will be a not bank-breaking GBP8/month and you don't have to sign up for a minimum period. And if you subscribe by the web site its only a tenner startup to get the card....www.topup.tv

maybe then I'll understand what all the fuss is about....


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## Guest (26 Feb 2004)

In many instances MDF is the best product to use.It doesn't twist,split or warp under different conditions and for many applications where a project is to painted it works fine. To rule out a material just from snobbery is a big mistake


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## Aragorn (26 Feb 2004)

jaymar":jr7tv2iv said:


> In many instances MDF is the best product to use.


True, but I only use it for the paid work - I have to offer customers the cheaper options. But I don't use it for my own projects. Come on - it's not snobbery, it just doesn't *feel *right.
I'm not sure why a veneered board feels different to solid wood, but it does. Even though our fingers are touching real wood with both, the veneer lacks something...

I'm getting too philosphical here aren't I?....
Maybe I should mention routers or planers, ... power feed?

That's better. More balanced now :!:


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## Anonymous (26 Feb 2004)

> .........It doesn't twist,split or warp under different conditions.....



Some time back I used 600mm x 18mm mdf as shelving in the garage as was; (now workshop  )

It got very damp in there sometimes and granted some of the shelves were fairly well laden but even those lightly loaded managed to warp considerably. 

Its a good product apparently for some applications but i was distinctly unimpressed.

Its true Aragorn, it definitely lacks that aesthetic pleasure that solid timber engenders.


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## Aragorn (26 Feb 2004)

Bilzee
MDF is glorified cardboard after all. If it gets damp it will ruin. It definitely needs to be well painted, laminated or sealed however it's used.


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## Philly (26 Feb 2004)

M.D.F. and Toolster snobbery?
Mdf doesnt actually contain wood (probably :lol: ) which is why there is outcry! If you have had the pleasure of using real wood, things become much clearer ( and I don't mean B+Q pine, rather actual soft or hardwoods).
The fine tools that a lot of forum posters spend their money on are designed to work "Wood"-mdf is glue and dust. That's not to say there isn't a place for mdf, just that wood is where its at!
regards, 
Philly


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## Dewy (26 Feb 2004)

It's good to know that some channels on the Freeview digital are being offered for a reasonable price. I should imagine that you will miss out on the +1hr H&L as soon as woodworking finishes & they start drowning worms I switch to the plus 1hour channel & watch the woodworking again. That way It's only Friday night I don't get forced to watch other less violent channels. 

MDF? I only ever use that for jigs. I can't think of anything I could make with it better than 'proper' timber. 
MDF may not warp or twist (when dry) but try using it in damp conditions.
I used white contiboard for my garage (workshop) shelving & although I sealed the ends they still absorbed a lot of water but it won't evaporate properly because it gets trapped behind the melamine finish.
From now on all shelves will be replaced with wood. 
WPB ply should do nicely. 1 sheet cut into strips should be enough for 64' of shelving.


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## Anonymous (26 Feb 2004)

Aragorn":2y3ekzwg said:


> jaymar":2y3ekzwg said:
> 
> 
> > In many instances MDF is the best product to use.
> ...



I agree wholeheartedly Aragorn, and it doesn't look as nice (or as 'organic') as jointed boards

Cheers

Tony


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## Alan L (19 Mar 2004)

On the whole I have found the programs I have watched very interesting . This has encouraged me to get more serious about my woodworking and hence join forums such as this.

I'll certainly be watching for a while.


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## Anonymous (1 Apr 2004)

If you are thinking of taking the new Topup-TV pay service on digital/freeview to get Discovery Home and Leisure then my advice is don't. It only shows that channel between 6am and noon, and most of the woodworking shows are on later in the day, particularly the NYW repeats.

Guess I'll just have to continue living in ignorance of who this "Norm" guy is and how he breaks all the safety rules...


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## Dewy (1 Apr 2004)

MP Norm Abram used to be the master carpenter on the long running 'This Old House' series in USA with American DIY guru Bob Villa. In 1989 he started his own woodworking show 'New Yankee Workshop' which has been running 13 episodes a year ever since.
His workshop is about 35' x 25' and he is well known for his preference for power tools of all kinds.
He regularly works with reclaimed timbers which have done all their moving & have a better colour. Woodworm holes included.
Many of the tools he uses are loaned by the tool manufacturers for him to try out such as the 36" sanding machine.
He makes many things look easy and is an inspiration to many to start working with wood.
Every series he makes at least one workshop item, his router table has most things needed for accurate work but was remade last year with better dust extracion.


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## Jim (1 Apr 2004)

Being a bit `old school`I`m not really all that interested on how they cut a certain joint or with what tool, I have my way`s of cutting joints and I`m sticking to them  I mainly watch the woodworking shows for ideas more than anything and have to say that like it or not the Cutting edge Woodworker comes up with more radical designs than any other show, of course you need the decor to use the designs but a few good ideas have been filed away.
David Free obviously knows what he is doing in the shop but I`m also getting a bit fed up watching him set up his Trend jig but I`ve still had a few ideas from him.
All said and done, Norm is still the Master (Carpenter  ) and I never tire of watching him make a shaker style table or whatever but still think that all programs of this sort have something to offer us plebs, so don`t knock them, just watch and enjoy.


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## woodburner (2 Apr 2004)

My first post, so hello and thanks to all those whose wisdom I have been reading (learning?) over the last few weeks. My interest in woodmasacre came from a combination of the shows discussed above and fitting an MFI kitchen which left me thinking that I could have done at least as well myself.

Personally I find that most of the stuff they make doesn't really interest me, and most of the methods that they use aren't available to me. That doesn't stop me from watching it mind, I'd just really like to see something that I would find genuinely useful. I certainly agree with may of the comments made above, and having read the response to somebody from the broadcasters am wondering if anybody will be providing these many comments to them so that we can try to influence future developments?

Still wondering whether to make very tall stools or chop the bottoms off the legs of the excessively tall table I've constructed?

Chemist not carpenter


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## Anonymous (2 Apr 2004)

> Cutting edge Woodworker comes up with more radical designs than any other show



TBH, I found many of the C.E.W designs very fifties. 

I agree that all these shows have something to offer, even poor ole John and his mdf workshop :lol:


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## sawdustalley (2 Apr 2004)

bilzee":3pqblara said:


> even poor ole John and his mdf workshop :lol:



Poor?? - Maybe you should rephrase that


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