# A kind of lazy susan



## devonwoody (2 Sep 2007)

A type of lazy susan 

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http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au ... hp?t=55591

I had help form Australian forum members who kindly supplied a working drawing (using their cad program and also some trig experts.) which I blew up in PSP X1 and made a full sized poster. 

So am going to attempt a seven box project using a different species of timber for each section. I will most probably keep the setup as a fixed system to avoid turning it into a mobile feature and thus avoid balance problems. Also not going to glue each box until the outer ring has been completed incase cutting accuracy does not come at 100%(which I think would be very unlikely)
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## devonwoody (2 Sep 2007)

Spent the day preparing timber for the six outer boxes and pleased to say that all finished up at 12mm thick and 74mm wide, various lengths but should be enough I hope if there are no mishaps.







The Shelves shown were from our childrens bedrooms made in 1970 and have been stored in the loft the last 23 years. They would have been made by hand (perhaps a black & decker portable clip on circular saw may have been around then) the joints shown were through tenons and wedged.




















The last picture shows timbers finished with a few slivers laying on top that are 0.5mm thick after coming of the Triton workcentre. I was thinking I might purchase a tablesaw this week at the Yandles wood show, but how could I improve on that ripping.


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## devonwoody (3 Sep 2007)

Day off today, I've reached the three score years and ten.


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## RobertMP (3 Sep 2007)

Happy Birthday


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## Fecn (3 Sep 2007)

Happy birthday Devonwoody!!!


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## Anonymous (3 Sep 2007)

Happy birthday DW ccasion4: 


Are you sure about the Sycamore? usually, this is a very light coloured wood which is often described as creamy in fact. 
It is rare to get the kind of figuring you show in that plank and I think the species might be some other. 

Having said that, I do have some Sycamore with a little figuring, sold as '2nd grade' wood (at 2/3 price  ), but it is still a very creamy light colour (i used it in many boxews in my recent box threadt)


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## devonwoody (3 Sep 2007)

Definately Sycamore Tony.

I purchased it 2 or 3 years ago and posted pics on the forum complaining about the quality (spalting).
The supplier up Oxfordshire way somewhere sent me another 4 boards but not much better.
It does have nice colour charteristics tho. with the bits I can use.
The tablesaws didn't like it, bent up their insides!


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## devonwoody (4 Sep 2007)

Had a little rant on the other forum, then went and helped the trouble and strife getting ready for the autumn cleanup in the garden.

And then did a dummy run on the boxes using some software battens cut to size fitting the template as shewn below.






Its not proving to be easy because very precise measures are required taking into account angles. 

So can anyone out there give me some directions or tips which way they would go?


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## devonwoody (4 Sep 2007)

Using the paper pattern I made from the computer I have cut a hardboard template and going to attempt to stick box sides with a temporary type of glue to the hardboard and gluing up the sides with pva and superglue at the same time.

Nailed an old ruler to the bench and used a Stanley knife to cut some of the hardboard to shape. Nailed the ruler down because last year the stanley knife ran across the ruler and my thumbnail and it needed superglue to stick the thumb tip back on.  
















Cut the template out as per photographs below and had a bonus, I got 4 60x30x90 triangles (forgotten what sort of triangles they are called now)






Put a fence with a 30% cutting line ready to use on box sides.






But still not commited if someone advises me a different way later this evening.


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## devonwoody (5 Sep 2007)

Rebated the top and bottom edge of the outer ring boxes and fitted on a flat board as a trial run.






Glued the first three pieces at their edge with titebond plus a streak of superglue, the superglue does really avoid the need for clamps, I just hold in position for around 30 seconds. 





The final outside piece does have a clamp and will hold my breath tomorrow when clamp released. However I will be fitting a base very quickly to give further support in case there has been any springing.


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## devonwoody (6 Sep 2007)

Had a good day, (especially if you see my other thread) the 7 box is going well.

The outer ring has glued satisfactorily, and started the inner ring as per this pic. (glued in segments not a complete ring)






and when the remaining segments were glued and set I put them together thus:-






Cleaned up the glue lines and added this pic. as an edit.






I then have cut a base (in 3 ply) that fits the inner and outer ring, glued it in place to give stability.

The straight edge matches mitre cuts through both inner and outer, thats another reason I have had a good day


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## ByronBlack (6 Sep 2007)

Looking good DW. I might just be being a bit thick or I may have missed something, but when you are gluing these pieces together, are you using any kind of biscuit or tonque to help join the mitres, or are you gluing the end-grain mitres directly together?

If the latter, is that strong enough, as i've always thought it wasn't possible to glue end-grain successfully. My apologies if I have got this wrong.


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## NeilO (6 Sep 2007)

DW, sorry chap but I`m on the fence with this one..
the original concept was intriguing, using several species of wood, but for the moment the Purpleheart seems to unbalance the piece when looking at the pictures in my eyes...as I said the jury is still out..
maybe once its finished the P/heart may not be quite as loud :lol: 
im waiting with anticipation..


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## devonwoody (7 Sep 2007)

Byron, All my mitres to date have not needed biscuits or splines inserted and over the past 15 months since I have concentrated on box making there was only one failure. (the previous six sided box, which fell apart when attempting to cut corner stringers) Some of my earlier attempts at mitred corners needed stringers because of machinery problems not being allowed for. (creepage when blade cutting) Lately I have been using superglue in addition to Titebond 3 to hold mitres together to get a quick set. This instance, hopefully, the base will maintain the joints! I am considering putting keys in at a later date when my new tablesaw arrives!

Neilo, your comments are valid re purple heart but at a later stage there is perhaps going to be something more outrageous (contrast wise) so perhaps the p/h will look quite subdued.


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## NeilO (7 Sep 2007)

DW, more outrageous :shock: , then you did manage to find a supplier for Dayglo florescent Tulipwood???? :lol: 

Its not that i dislike the piece, per say...but every time I look at it my eye is immediately drawn to the P/heart, like i said a "touch" overpowering..


its probably not half as bad in the "flesh" , because its probably not as big as it looks, or is it?(my guesstimatoin is 250mm diameter)


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## devonwoody (7 Sep 2007)

Made only a little progress today because I am indecisive about lid arrangement for the seven boxes.

I did prepare another 6 pieces however for the final 7th box but I have not glued up at present because rebates and dadoes have to be decided.

I would like to have lids that are inclined to avoid a flat top appearance so tomorrow I might mock up some lids with some scrap softwood offcuts to get a preview. 






Your comments or ideas would be welcome and not miffed at any adverse remarks.


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## devonwoody (8 Sep 2007)

I've been posting the same box on the Aussie forum and between us they have got me out of a fix with the lids. We are going to do something like this.







So did a dummy run with some scrap softwood on the bandsaw and using a good quality blade on an ordinary machine I got perfect chamfer cuts.






and fitted the trial lid thus.






Cut my lid shape by hand using a 30% offcut on my sawing board and rebated all edges.







Cut six lids from hardwood stock to match box timbers but will have to fit layers under the lids because the timber had already been prepared to 12mm thickness and 18mm total is needed.











The waste offcuts from the bandsawing.




.
Turned them good side over and laid some out as samples before cutting to shape.






The thread might now shutdown for a few days, I've got that new tablesaw coming Monday and I have got it to setup and also rearrange the workshop plus learn to use the machinery.


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## NeilO (8 Sep 2007)

Hi DW,
I assume you intend to match the lids with the base ( ie wood for wood) from the last layout...
you might try to use a really dark/black wood for the finial, if your going to use one?
and still waiting for the more outrageous twist, you have in store.... :lol:


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## devonwoody (16 Sep 2007)

Got back to the lazy susan today, but now started using Japanese handsaws because each lid seems to need individual fitting. Also hand planing down to size but leaving the final fit until all these six boxes cut. 















So thats four box lids on the way!


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## devonwoody (17 Sep 2007)

The last two lids were prepared this afternoon and all six are now roughly fitted;






To hold these six lids in position I have also made 6 inserts in ply and thse will be glued to the underside of lids as the means of keeping their positions. 
They are each labelled because it was necessary to fit each individually.






Final pic. shows what I am trying to describe in above photo and three lids have been laid on those inserts.


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## RogerM (17 Sep 2007)

This is an intriguingly different project DW. Beginning to look really nice. I bet you can't wait to apply that first coat of your chosen finish.


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## NeilO (17 Sep 2007)

DW, looking good...except for that purpleheart :lol: 
the Lacewood? looks absolutely gorgeous..
really looking forward to seeing the finished piece.


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## ByronBlack (17 Sep 2007)

the purpleheart sticks out like a sore - thumb, but I actually like it, i'm really enjoying watching this one come together, an original design and interesting to see it being implemented.

What finish are you going to use on this one DW?


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## devonwoody (18 Sep 2007)

> What finish are you going to use on this one DW?



If it is a success I am hoping for it to be a permanent feature (as an ornament) on the dinning table so a finish that is appropriate and easily cleaned.

Any suggestions?


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## ByronBlack (18 Sep 2007)

Easily cleaned and practical - I would go with something like Rustins plastic coating, very easy to clean. If you don't mind a bit of rubbing, and yearly maintenance, i'm a huge fan of danish oil and wax.


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## devonwoody (18 Sep 2007)

Thanks for finishing advice above.

However I have had a panic attack  I think the ply insert holders cheapen or lower the project and I got out my scrap boxes:







And found sufficient bits to remake the lower inserts in matching timbers to lids. Now I,m concerned that I might get a nasty reaction caused by grain/warp if I glue these pieces under the top lids instead of the original ply I cut.

So looking for a majority verdict on what I should do before I glue up.??






Incidently I hand cut the new bits using a bit of scrap offcut with a straight edge to ensure a decent cut to a drawn line..Never used this way of cutting before but I can fully recommend.












By the way, do I need to start a new thread if this one takes a long time to download?


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## devonwoody (19 Sep 2007)

The lids are playing me up, They fitted at a dry trial run but withtitebond3 on they are slipping or creeping.
When does the creep happen, whilst setting?


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## ByronBlack (19 Sep 2007)

I use titebond all the time, and in my experience you get some slippage at the early stages of setting, I would get them nice and tight in clamps as soon as possible really.


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## devonwoody (20 Sep 2007)

The Australians recommended a few grains of sand to stop slippage but didn't work this time for me (most probably because the pieces glued together have one sloped surface.

The six lids have now been roughly fitted and glued up to their insert bases but I have doubts about their stability and I might have to go back to ply or solid pieces and machine to shape on router.






Putting this portion away for a few days and return to the centre box which will need smaller pieces to compliment the design.


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## OPJ (22 Sep 2007)

I was also quite concerned by the purpleheart, but since the lids have gone on, I don't know why, but it really seems to work quite nicely!


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## devonwoody (24 Sep 2007)

Taken a photograph of lazy susan out of the direct sunlight of earlier pictures shown above to display the timber colours without glare.








There is a gap on the lacewood lid which might mean I will have to remake a new piece for this section.

But I am keen to get going again and start making a cover for the centre section. This is also creating problems because I want to maintain the slope, however I will try a session today. 

Any comments appreciated.


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## Lord Nibbo (24 Sep 2007)

I thought the outer hexagon looked excellent, that middle section will make it look fabulous. You must be a glutton for punishment with all those angles you've cut =D> \/


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## devonwoody (24 Sep 2007)

The frontal view 











Decided to change tactics for the centre and make a one piece lid , compound angles drove me frantic and also realising that they would have to be cut by hand because of the small size.





Made a paper template as per picture and then sharpened my Stanley knife blade on the wet & dry sanding block ( I do that these days and I haven’t had to change or brake off any blade for sometime). Cut the six paper segments and marked the outside edges and timber variety, otherwise I thought I might have a large sort out puzzle at the end of the day.







Cut to the first to line on the SCMS saw;; but when needing to cut the other angle my fingers started to tingle, so I knocked up this idea for cutting the second side, I screwed a batten on my sawing board tightened it down tight on the timber and used it as a straight edge for cutting line. I can tell you using a Japanese saw the cut was super, equal or better than the SCMS cut.





















The end is in sight, usually my boxes are 5 day jobs, but this one is stretching out, perhaps because it is 7 boxes.


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## devonwoody (25 Sep 2007)

Two of the lid pieces are short on width so I have built up to accommodate the triangle.






I have now got all 6 pieces cut and roughly fitted to centre space, did need some recuts and further attention is going to be required but will give it a rest for a few days just incase something springs to mind that might be missed if I go straight for a glue up. Thinking knobs, beadings etc.


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## ByronBlack (25 Sep 2007)

How about, taking the order of the internal lids and flipping them 180 so you have a contrast, i.e. the purple heart lid will be on the opposite side etc.. And to crown it off, how about a small pyramid style handle in the middle..


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## Lord Nibbo (26 Sep 2007)

It just gets better and better





What inspired you to come up with this design DW?


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## devonwoody (26 Sep 2007)

quote

What inspired you to come up with this design dw?

Sleepless nights! :wink: 

I'll investigate setting lids at opposing positions, but it will definitely have a knob at the crown.
Looking at it this morning I would also like the rise to continue as the outer ring, but I will need a mathematician to give me the angles assuming a 4mm rise. Anyone out there please?


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## devonwoody (3 Oct 2007)

It’s a week and I’m back, I can’t believe where that went. Some of you know I’ve been jigging around and today the first dry day I got lumbered with planting around 500 spring bulbs. Did it the easy way, dug a trench and poured them in.

So this evening I purloined a new tool for my workshop, the electric bread knife and then cut some polystyrene to shape and fitted inside the seventh box orifice.






Dropped the lid on top and got a reasonable fit.






Then decided to make a ply template to glue the triangular pieces too.





Handy things laser lines on SCMS saws.







The ply fitted OK.






So glued pieces down and edges of each piece to each other.






Going back later this evening to bring it into the kitchen for the evening to keep it nice and warm and also keeping my fingers crossed.


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## TonyW (3 Oct 2007)

Looking very nice DW \/


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## Fecn (4 Oct 2007)

The lid makes all the difference. Very nice


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## PowerTool (4 Oct 2007)

Looks very good,and great selection of timbers.

Andrew


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## Mcluma (4 Oct 2007)

Its looking fab =D>


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## devonwoody (6 Oct 2007)

Pleased to report back that things are working out OK and stress is coming down.
The centre lid was glued up couple of days ago and yesterday I got down to cleaning it up. This was necessary because the centre box portions have a rise up to the centre point (that match outer ring, more luck than judgement) and that created small gaps at each joint section, however some thin slivers and other sections, just glue and sawdust has put things right. (for me anyway) 
The inner box was secured to the outer ring with matching vertical small spacers and a base closure plate has to be made together with a system of raising lids. 

Couple of quick pics to show progress todate.


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## devonwoody (9 Oct 2007)

I am pleased to say the lazy susan comprising seven boxes has now been finished. I would confess that it has been a struggle at times and I would most probably only anticipate a C grade if it was a school project.
Some of the 60% angles are not perfect but have been cobbled together with slightly compensating adjustments. 
However I have found it a resting place in our home and it might get used for my daily pocket money allowance to stop me overspending each day, or could even be used as a weekly tablet allowance .
That now makes the third item awaiting a finish to be applied, shellac and wax.

Thanks for watching and those helpful suggestions. some were very much appreciated.


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## ByronBlack (9 Oct 2007)

Congrats DW! It's been nice seeing it come together.


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## bobscarle (10 Oct 2007)

DW. Its been quite a struggle, but the result is lovely. Well done. =D> 

Bob


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## Woodmagnet (10 Oct 2007)

Super job D.W. well done. :wink:


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## Bean (10 Oct 2007)

Looks good DW  I have watched with interest as I was not sure if I would like it ........ but I do.

Out of interest if you made another what would you do differently ??


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## devonwoody (10 Oct 2007)

Quote;

Out of interest if you made another what would you do differently ??
_________________


Use my new table saw plus make a jig like the one the other day but set at 30%.
The 45% mitre jig has just made a perfect rectangular box and it honestly couldn't be bettered. Even the drop in lid fits any orientation you select. 

Thanks for the interest shown. 

I've just remembered that somewhere I have got a metal lazy susan turntable and I might be able to fix under the project above. Now where did I put it?


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## Lord Nibbo (10 Oct 2007)

=D> =D> =D> I liked it before you did the middle bit, and with that done it looks even better. You only give yourself a C grade, I think your being a little hard on yourself, the only thing I ever finished at school were a garden dibber (think spade handle with a point) and a stool. Neither were as intricate or used the exotic woods you have used. Give the man A+ =D> \/ 

PS.. swmbo loves it, she just said she could imagine it sat on the black walnut drawer unit. :lol:


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## devonwoody (10 Oct 2007)

Thanks, A+ must tell mum, I might get a fiver. 

LN, if you seriously want to make one, we are not too far apart, I've got timber small pieces that perhaps we could do a swap.


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## Gaz_XB9R (10 Oct 2007)

Quick question.

Does purple heart not fade if left unsealed?

If so I'd get some finish on there soon or tuck it away from the light in case the UV spoils your excellent handiwork.

Gaz


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## devonwoody (10 Oct 2007)

Thanks for that tip, I must get those finishes done.


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## devonwoody (10 Oct 2007)

Gaz_XB9R":2ados7uc said:


> Quick question.
> 
> Does purple heart not fade if left unsealed?
> 
> ...



Taken up your advice, and as it was a lovely autumn afternoon I decided to get some fresh air and do some finishing that has been waiting a while.


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## Lord Nibbo (11 Oct 2007)

devonwoody":34xyosdh said:


> Thanks, A+ must tell mum, I might get a fiver.
> 
> LN, if you seriously want to make one, we are not too far apart, I've got timber small pieces that perhaps we could do a swap.



I'll take you up on that some time DW What sort of sizes are we talking about? I won't be able to do it for a while yet though, I'll explain why in "General chat" :wink:


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## Fecn (12 Oct 2007)

Has the finish dried yet? I'm waiting for the pics


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## Niki (12 Oct 2007)

Fecn":78fq7lgw said:


> Has the finish dried yet? I'm waiting for the pics


Me too

Incredible work DW =D> =D> =D> 

niki


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## devonwoody (13 Oct 2007)

Thanks for the invitation.


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