# Triple Extractor WIP



## Chems (21 Feb 2010)

So I won yesterday on ebay one of these:







And he said in the listing he had an identical one that was a different colour, the previous perform model I guess. I made him an offer for both and both are on there way now. I already own this:






So my inspiration is KityUser who has done this:






And he found that it doubled his suction as you'd hope, so from the axy specs its giving 840m³/hr so I'm hoping for that times 2520m³/h. In comparison the ADE1200 is 1200m³/hr and the next model up from that the ADE2200 is 2200m³/hr. The triple motor CamVac is 565m³/hr on a HPLV system. So I'm hoping to get similar performace for £100 as I got the previous dust extractor free.  

I'll have them individually switched and am hoping to be able to arrange them within the existing framework of my current dust extractor. Also going to order this fine filter for the top and get some plastic bags for the bottom. 

Expecting delivery towards the end of the week so will update again then.


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## TheTiddles (21 Feb 2010)

You might get that huge flow with the bags off but the filter will limit that right down. Individually switching the motors is fine but if you have one on and the other two off it'll need to push or pull the other two fans round which will waste energy and may take 30 seconds or so to get them going, maybe using the fans as individual units for your furthest out machines would be more efficient?

Aidan


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## Chems (21 Feb 2010)

Apparently changing to a fine filter unit really increases the performance as its has more surface area. I thought it would be the other way around. I see what your saying but won't know till I try it all out. TBH if I'm going to be using the extractor I'll be using all 3.


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

Chem you would think that having 3 extractors running would be great, but like me you might very well have problems.

I wrote (in Mike Garnhams drop box thread):



> You all seem to grasp Mike's idea with no problem at all, so I am sorry if the following questions seem stupid with obvious answer's, but here goes anyway.
> 
> How did Mike (Saville) decide where to put the baffle's and how many to use?
> 
> ...



As you can see I have a 100mm metal ducting system (26ft long with branches running off to various machines, and connected to this are 3 extractors including a twin motored Camvac GV386, but considering all this power the suction is rubbish.

Mike G wrote:



> Mike.C wrote:
> How did Mike (Saville) decide where to put the baffle's and how many to use? What are the baffle's for?
> 
> How did any of you decide what size box to build?
> ...



As you can see Mike thinks that the extractors might be cancelling each other out.

I wrote:



> Mike many thanks for the explanation and the size of the box I need.
> 
> As for the 3 extractors cancelling each other out, I will have to do some testing but I think you might very well be right, because if you disconnect and put your hand over the inlet of a single extractor, and then go over and test the inlet pipe by a machine with all 3 extractors running, I am sure the single extractor feels more powerful.
> Have you got any tips on positioning the extractors? (the metal piping runs down the complete lenght of a 26ft x 13ft workshop, with several branches running off to my machines) Or would I be better off selling them and buying a single more powerful extractor to do the job?
> ...


[/code]

The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h? Is this litres per second for one of the camvac motors or 2?

I am really at a loss what to do and I do not know wether to sell all three machines and buy one big one that will take care of the whole system (both chips and the fine stuff) or rearrange the ones I have. Can anyone advise me? What would you do Chem?

Cheers

Mike


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## CHJ (21 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":29pyp0c1 said:


> The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?



1 litre = 0.001 cubic metres

1 (cu metre) = 1000 litres


108 l/s * 60 = 6480 l/m * 60 = 38,800 l/h = 388 cu mtr/h

Think that's right, head cold drowning in brandy is not resulting in the clearest of thoughts.


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## trousers (21 Feb 2010)

I make it 388 cu m/hr?


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

CHJ":2afadx75 said:


> Mike.C":2afadx75 said:
> 
> 
> > The Camvac gives their power reading in litres per second (108 l/sec) can anyone tell me how to convert this into m3/h?
> ...



38.8 cu mtr/h are you sure? Is that both of them or each?

Trousers wrote:

[/quote]I make it 388 cu m/hr?


> 388 cu m/hr sounds more like it, but is that each motor or both?
> 
> In the end it does not really matter, I just want to get the problem in my post above sorted.
> 
> ...


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## CHJ (21 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":2azpgn1k said:


> CHJ":2azpgn1k said:
> 
> 
> > Mike.C":2azpgn1k said:
> ...


388 moved decimal point one too many places.  


***********
Triple stage filtration 0.5 micron
Choice of suction power
Choice of hose inlet size: 2.5in or 4in

Technical Specifications 
Capacity: 36ltr
Drum Size: 395mm height x 370mm diameter
Weight: Approx 10kg
Motor Type: Two-stage Direct Airflow, 50Hz AC/DC, 220/240v (110/115v also available)
Power: Single Motor 1100W, Twin Motor 2200W
Airflow: Single Motor 54 l/sec (111cfm), Twin Motor 108 l/sec (222cfm)
Vacuum: 2080mm H20 
Cable: 8m x .75mm 3 core with 13-amp plug
Switch: 16-amp Single Pole Rocker


***********************


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

CHJ":2ey1r3m8 said:


> Mike.C":2ey1r3m8 said:
> 
> 
> > CHJ":2ey1r3m8 said:
> ...



Thanks CHJ. 388 cu mtr/h that is not really much when you compare it to the much cheaper Sheppach which at 1000 cu mtr/h has 3 times the power. Or is it because it was made to pick up fine dust?

Cheers

Mike


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## CHJ (21 Feb 2010)

Difference between High Pressure Low Volume (HPLV) and Low Pressure High Volume.(LPHV) I suspect, haven't looked at which Sheppach you are referring to.


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

CHJ":ztxklozx said:


> Difference between High Pressure Low Volume (HPLV) and Low Pressure High Volume.(LPHV) I suspect, haven't looked at which Sheppach you are referring to.



Once again thanks Chas. The Scheppach is a HA2600.

Cheers

Mike


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## Chems (21 Feb 2010)

http://www.duncanrogers.com/tools/conversion.php

That page if you scroll down has a section on airflow, just type in what you need to change. 

I heard what your saying about your set up. Are you connecting through a Y connection or like Kity User did and in series so to speak? KityUser found they cancelled each other out when done in a Y as they were working against each other. He found that he got double extraction with both running, so setting up the same system with an extra one, I can't see why I won't get triple extraction. It will be a fun experiement and I shall do it in the name of UKW!


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## CHJ (21 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":eimvruzj said:


> . The Scheppach is a HA2600.


 Low Pressure High Volume.


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## wizer (21 Feb 2010)

another dizzying thread. Watching with pessimistic interest.


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

Chems":214ia3e5 said:


> http://www.duncanrogers.com/tools/conversion.php
> 
> That page if you scroll down has a section on airflow, just type in what you need to change.
> 
> I heard what your saying about your set up. Are you connecting through a Y connection or like Kity User did and in series so to speak? KityUser found they cancelled each other out when done in a Y as they were working against each other. He found that he got double extraction with both running, so setting up the same system with an extra one, I can't see why I won't get triple extraction. It will be a fun experiement and I shall do it in the name of UKW!



Yes I have the two double bag extractors (Scheppach and Elektra Beckum, just like your Axminster in the frame and on wheels) connected to the ducting by way of a Y connecter. Do you think if I ran both of them in line or tandem it would work better? If so what would be the best way to do this?

Tom wrote:



> another dizzying thread. Watching with pessimistic interest.



What do you mean Tom, have I missed something come on spill the beans?

Cheers

Mike


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## Chems (21 Feb 2010)

I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.

Yes definatly mike. Read this thread:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/dual ... 0extractor

kityuser has done all the work I'm just copying him.


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## Mike.C (21 Feb 2010)

Chems":1r2zznjb said:


> I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.
> 
> Yes definatly mike. Read this thread:
> 
> ...



Thanks mate (and Kityuser) for the link. :lol: I am sure that that will work better. Let us know how you get along with yours and I will do the same.

Cheers

Mike


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## wizer (21 Feb 2010)

Chems":1qyy6nbt said:


> I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.



indeed


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## Mike.C (22 Feb 2010)

wizer":3nimbtth said:


> Chems":3nimbtth said:
> 
> 
> > I think tom just means hes not sure it will work but will watch with intrest.
> ...



Ah I see and here's me thinking that you could see the problems I am/was going to have. :roll:  

I keep on telling anyone that will listen :-({|= that dust and the extraction off is a pet hate of mine. It seems like a black art that some people are lucky enough to solve, while others are not, and for years now I have been well and truly with the latter.

How is your dust extraction? Have you got any tips?
I still keep on thinking (and asking) that I maybe better off selling the 3 extractors and buying one big one that will sort both the chip and fine dust problems out such as something like this http://www.axminster.co.uk/recno/5/prod ... 795037.htm 
or this one
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=48

What do you think? Is there another extractor that would suit me better?

Or does anyone have any other tips if I stick with the 3 extractors?

For the fine dust floating around the workshop I do have a Jet/Axminster AFS2000 or the Big Brother as they used to call them. And this takes care of the fine dust extremely well, but the only problem is although it does a good job I must still be breathing some of it in before it gets to the filter, and so I would really like to stop as much of it getting into the air as I can.

The Kityuser link may work but if anyone else has got any other ideas I would really like to hear them.

Cheers

Mike


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## wizer (22 Feb 2010)

My state of extraction is pitiful. I should be and am ashamed. For Christmas I was given a full face respirator and now wear it for whatever I'm doing in the workshop.

My recent thread about my workshop was centred around moving stuff around ready for ducting. Hopefully I can do that this summer.


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## Mike.C (22 Feb 2010)

Mike.C":376lqyut said:


> wizer":376lqyut said:
> 
> 
> > Chems":376lqyut said:
> ...


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## Chems (22 Feb 2010)

Mike, best off starting a new thread


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## Mike.C (22 Feb 2010)

Chems":o9u4yas2 said:


> Mike, best off starting a new thread


 
Yeah your probably right Chems, its just that with all the money that has been spent on dust extraction, and my lack of success I am impatient to get a good setup. 

Sorry to hijack your thread.

Cheers

Mike


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## SVB (23 Feb 2010)

Chems":3vppx7jr said:


> Apparently changing to a fine filter unit really increases the performance as its has more surface area. I thought it would be the other way around.



I think the 'performance' referred to here is the size of dust particle it will remove - obviously the finer the filter the smaller the particle it will trap. 0.5 microns seems to be the acceptable standard for a fine filter system which will deal with mdf dust etc. 

The area of a given filter type will improve the flow up to a point but will also extend the period before the filter becomes blocked and limits overall system performance.

However, installing an equally sized fine filter where once a coarse filter was will reduce airflow as one would expect.

BRgds

S


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## Chems (23 Feb 2010)

Yeah I agree, I think it will reduce airflow. I know that with my RDSE-2A when I put the special cloth on the drum to make it 1 micron safe it really reduces suck.


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## Chems (26 Feb 2010)




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## OPJ (26 Feb 2010)

Well, you can definitely _see_ the difference as the second extractor is switched on. It also sounds like you've got some kind of aircraft in your workshop! 

You'll definitely need that 16amp supply if you're intending to run all three with your 2HP saw. Maybe even 32amps. :?


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## Chems (26 Feb 2010)

3HP saw. It works fine at the mo. Just make sure the saw is on first.


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## big soft moose (26 Feb 2010)

well i'm selling a ade1200 (too big for the limited use it gets) if you fancy making that a quadruple fan system


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## Chems (28 Feb 2010)

I think it may take off if I add another extractor!


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## OPJ (1 Mar 2010)

Chems":2zgg39at said:


> 3HP saw. It works fine at the mo. Just make sure the saw is on first.



3HP, of course! Sorry.  I was thinking of my new bandsaw, which still draws 14.6amps on startup (I'd assume your saw draws more?).

Sounds like you could do with connecting those extractors in to a remote socket? I'm thinking of doing the same with mine, so I don't have to walk so far to turn it on/off when I'm using the bandsaw.


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## wobblycogs (1 Mar 2010)

Wow, that put's my RP extractor to shame. I imagine it is a tad noisy though . 

Anyway, someone asked about converting l/min to m/h. If I'm near a computer generally I'll just whack into into Google enter: 

108 litres per sec in m^3 per hour 

and out pops 388. Can't believe I'm the only one who uses this facility but I've never seen anyone else mention it.


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## Chems (1 Mar 2010)

Yeah I thought the same Wobbly, google is your friend. I converted the amounts in my original post when I compared the LVHP camvac with these.

About the noise, its not to bad really, all 3 are induction motors and the noise of one is the same as 3 so its hard to tell sometimes if you've got them all on as once one is on the bag is inflated, leads to a bit of prodding. 

Olly, no idea what it draws on startup, theyall the DC is on a remote switch your RDSE and the HVLP but need to remove the NVR on the new ones to get it working an looks a little more complex than the oringial as the electrics are all houses up. I'll get to it when I've cleared there new home and made space for the Roubo


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