# Spear & Jackson Tenon saw



## MIGNAL (12 May 2009)

Perhaps not the original firm but these saws are still made in Sheffield. This particular saw (12 " Tenon) cost me £26 from my local tool shop. As far as I'm aware it is available in 10, 12 and 14" versions. The good points are that it has a weighty brass back, wooden handle and can be resharpened. 15 PPI that appear to be the universal sharpening - under magnification it appears 1 tooth crosscut, next 2 teeth rip cut, 1 tooth crosscut, 2 teeth rip cut etc. Someone will correct me if I have this wrong.







I consider it a very good saw for the price. Hardly the most elegant of handles and it is secured with rivets but I aren't about to complain. The set/universal sharpening isn't the ideal but it can all be improved upon for those willing to put in a bit of time.


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## Aled Dafis (12 May 2009)

I like the handle mod, very nice!!

Cheers

Aled


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## neilyweely (13 May 2009)

mignal

I got a few of those saws (except mine have spearior written on the blade, and are, I think, a bit older ) in my collection of tenon saws, and I think they are a great saw for the money. I have a couple of Roberts and Lee saws that cost much, much more that I really don't like as much as the older S & J saws I own.

I think I will have a go at re-styling the handles on mine too; nice one!!

For £26 you can't go wrong, can you?

Neil

PS _ I also have a couple of much smaller versions - still brass backed - that I am assuming are dovetail saws. Is this likely to be the case?


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## bugbear (13 May 2009)

MIGNAL":1lnhil3x said:


> I consider it a very good saw for the price. Hardly the most elegant of handles and it is secured with rivets but I aren't about to complain.



I would recommend rounding off the handle a lot more; it's still a little boxy.

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthread ... &fpart=all

http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/kits/index.html

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (13 May 2009)

neilyweely":1x7o0kaa said:


> mignal
> 
> I got a few of those saws (except mine have spearior written on the blade, and are, I think, a bit older ) in my collection of tenon saws, and I think they are a great saw for the money. I have a couple of Roberts and Lee saws that cost much, much more that I really don't like as much as the older S & J saws I own.
> 
> ...



I don't think they have a dovetail saw - at least not the modern version of Spear & Jackson - which is just a mark for Neil Tools Ltd. If you google 'Spear & Jackson' you should find the homepage that lists their saws. 
I too have a Roberts & Lee Dovetail saw which seemed mighty expensive (at least to me) when I bought it some 20 years ago.

Bugbear. Yes the handle is still a little clunky looking. I was a bit concerned because at 22 mm's. the handle is a little thinner than I hoped. That matches my Pax dovetail saw (which I also reshaped) and that feels a little on the thin side even though I did not remove anything from the overall thickness. I'm afraid you have to work with what you've got when it comes to reshaping handles. Having said that even just spoiling the edge makes quite a big diffrence to the feel. My Roberts & Lee is a better candidate at just under 25 mm's - the reshaping on that is long overdue because even that isn't the most ergonomic or elegant of handles.


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## bugbear (14 May 2009)

MIGNAL":2macblqy said:


> Bugbear. Yes the handle is still a little clunky looking. I was a bit concerned because at 22 mm's. the handle is a little thinner than I hoped. That matches my Pax dovetail saw (which I also reshaped) and that feels a little on the thin side even though I did not remove anything from the overall thickness. I'm afraid you have to work with what you've got when it comes to reshaping handles. Having said that even just spoiling the edge makes quite a big diffrence to the feel. My Roberts & Lee is a better candidate at just under 25 mm's - the reshaping on that is long overdue because even that isn't the most ergonomic or elegant of handles.



Wowza; I assumed it was a newly fabricated handle, not a reshape!

BugBear


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## Harbo (14 May 2009)

Nice bit of reshaping.

I did this a while back on my Crown saw using some spalted beech:






Sorry about picture size - transferred from another site!

Rod


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## joiner_sim (15 May 2009)

Hi,
Thanks for posting this! I Have been thinking about buying "proper" handsaws rather than the disposable ones, looking at the spear and jackson range also. 
:arrow: :?: My only question is how hard are any of these proper saws to sharpen up, and can you pay a company to do it fopr you, and how much roughly?
Thanks,
Simon.


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## neilyweely (16 May 2009)

Funny thing that. I don't think it is that easy to get a good saw doc any more. I sent my Tyzack into Bedford Saw Co
to be sharpened some time ago ( I did say time wasn't an issue) and after 6 months I saw a van driving thru town
(Bedford) with 'Saw Doctors......' written on the side with an address in Cornwall or somewhere else far away. I
quickly did a U-turn and followed said van, and accosted him at the lights.

' I have a Tyzack tenon saw that is in desperate need of attention' - says I, thinking to get it back and send it to him.

' Yes' he says ' I have had it for a while; I'll do it soon' !!

Point being that Bedford Saw had fed it out to this fella miles away, who was, by coincidence, the only, and first,
other bloke I saw who could possibly help me out.

I think the only way to get your saw sharpened nowadays is to learn how to do it yourself. Unless you know 
someone who will do it for the love of it (or you) because it just isn't worth doing anymore.

Having said all that (phew!!) the tenon saws I own that are not 'hardpoint' are all FAR superior, IMO, to the crappy
' Bahco' and even 'Stanley' modern saws I have tried.

So, I would get two. One good one to use when needed, and a not so good one for everyday use
and to practice sharpening (which I cannot do!)

Hope this helps

Neil (who is sure he has got a S+J dovetail - its only little; what else could it be?? What defines a DT saw? Rip pattern? )


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## MIGNAL (16 May 2009)

Sharpening saws really isn't all that difficult. I avoided sharpening my own saws for years before I finally took the plunge. I finally took the plunge because after each passing year I seemed to be travelling further and further afield to get my saws sharpened. Even then I wasn't happy with how they were coming back. To a certain extent I went in at the deep end, the very first saw I attempted was one at 15 TPI crosscut. It turned out dreadful, it looked like I had 4, 8, 11, 6, 15, 12 TPI all on the same saw! It mattered little, it was a cheap Draper backsaw that someone gave to me gratis. My second attempt (on the same Draper) turned out way better. Perhaps not perfect in the sense that all the teeth were EXACTLY the same height/profile. The important point was that it cut incredibly well - even though I do say so myself.I use it for cutting fret slots in Guitar fretboards and it's a lot better than any commercial saw that I've ever bought that has been sold for this very task. I've bought a few so I've enough of them for comparison purposes. Actually I don't think it is the saws at fault - it's how they have been sharpened.
There are a few guides and tricks you can employ to make the task a little easier. Magnification is essential (at least foe me) where fine teeth are concerned. I must admit I've never done a saw with anything finer than 16 TPI even though my Pax and Roberts & Lee are around 20 TPI. It's a bridge I will have to cross very soon.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=24976

See also Bugbears page and his device on controlling rake - that proved very useful.
http://www.geocities.com/plybench/saw_sharpen.html


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## neilyweely (16 May 2009)

Mignal

Today Riley and I had a look at the S & J DT saw, which we are both convinced is what it is. Too many teeth for a standard saw, and blade is only 8 inches long, so....

I also got a new gadget today. I believe it is a Disston saw topping device. It is a small file held in a hinged body, with a gap for the saw teeth to enter and be 'topped'.

And a new Stanley no203 (which is some sort of edge clamp - maybe a little floor clamp; that swhat it looks like!!). I am hoping it is the lost link between planes and clamps or whatever, and is worth a bomb! 

I'll google it and see!!

Neil


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## MIGNAL (16 May 2009)

I don't doubt that it's a dovetail saw, just that the modern version of Spear & Jackson do not list one on their website. That means they do and it's an oversight on their part or they don't make a dovetail saw and yours is from an earlier period - perhaps when S&J were not owned by Neil tools Ltd.


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## bugbear (17 May 2009)

MIGNAL":1bcusqf5 said:


> Perhaps not perfect in the sense that all the teeth were EXACTLY the same height/profile.



Perfect (or even perfectly consistent) rake and fleam are not (super important), and pitch can vary. Indeed minor varyiation in pitch are considered to be desirable in reducing chatter and vibration.

But your teeth must be close to the same height, or the low teeth won't cut.

Now, if this error is random, your saw will cut less quickly (since some teeth won't cut at all), but that is probably not important. But if the low teeth are predominantly on one side, the saw won't cut straight. 

THAT matters.

BugBear (glad to hear you found the rake gadget helpful)


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## neilyweely (17 May 2009)

Hi Mignal
Therein is the answer. It is from the tool sale at Peacocks, and the fella whose collection it is from had these things stuffed away for years.
So it is most certainly NOT a new saw. It is not very old, but maybe 20 or 30 years.

I would really love to re-shape the handles but am a bit nervous to mess it up ; in the past I have used the bandsaw; would you do it this way?

Does anyone have a pattern I could see? Or should I just copy a handle I have and like?

I think I am gonna have a go at sharpening today (I too have a saw with teeth at all different heights!) so will log in later and 'fess up!

Happy Sunday

Neil


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## Harbo (17 May 2009)

There is an Oz web page with lots of handle plans - I think there is a link from Bugbear's web stuff?

You can download some plans from "Tools For working Wood".

Rod


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## MIGNAL (17 May 2009)

neilyweely":1rsbrvr1 said:


> Hi Mignal
> Therein is the answer. It is from the tool sale at Peacocks, and the fella whose collection it is from had these things stuffed away for years.
> So it is most certainly NOT a new saw. It is not very old, but maybe 20 or 30 years.
> 
> ...



Bandsaw with a suitable blade will be fine. I think the 'ideal' might be a decent scrollsaw. With my saw having rivets I was obviously reluctant to remove the handle so did it in situ. Just used a coping saw, rasps, files and sanded to finish. I had no pattern and simply used my minds eye.
If you are a little concerned in respect of messing it up then I'd strongly advise you look at a number of good examples including patterns and finished examples. You will have to work within any constraints that the existing handle presents. Just go easy and test the fit and aesthetics frequently, remember the most important aspect is to make a handle that is comfortable for your hand. The aesthetics should be secondary and is an added bonus.


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