# frame and panel cabinets



## engineer one (2 Mar 2007)

ok so i have been thinking about one particular project for a while,
and finally seem to have the option to do it soon

it is a 2 piece drawer unit and top. solid cherry and cherry mdf
frame and panel sides and back. lower bit about 600 high, x450x450.
top also 600x 400x400 or so.

so the question is are there any formulae about the width of the frame pieces

my initial thoughts are the side pieces will be about 75 mm wide
and the rear ones 100. but any better ideas???

the other thought is how do you fit the back and sides together???
well you know what i mean? i was thinking about rebates in the side and a bottom rail, and then capped by a top rail to hold it in place yet allow movement of the cherry. although will it move that much at those sizes???


any random thoughts would be appreciated.
:roll: 
paul :wink:


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## Benchwayze (10 Mar 2007)

Hi Paul,

I wish I could help, re proportions, but I can't visualise in metric! (60+ you see.) 

I will get the books out for you and see what I can find, but with my ancient tomes, the measurements will be imperial. Will that help? 8) 

John


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## engineer one (10 Mar 2007)

ge i am almost 60 and i find metric difficult to, but thought with everybody here talking big that would get more info.

shows how wrong i was :roll: :twisted: 


so thanks :lol: 
paul :wink:


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## wrightclan (13 Mar 2007)

Paul, sorry no one has yet followed up your question. I saw it a few days ago, but I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking for the width of the stiles and rails on the end panels? i.e. is the 100mm the width of the rear stile of both side panels, and 75mm the width of the front stile of the side panels? 

If I've understood you correctly, all I would say is, if there is to be a face frame, I would make the front stiles to be equal to the rear ones *minus* the thickness of the face frame. For example, if the stiles are to be 100mm and the face frame is to be 18mm, then I would make the front stiles (of the side panels) 82mm. Therefore, the total width appears to be equal to the rear ones on the finished piece.

Also I would make the top rail generally the same width as the stiles. I would make the bottom rail a bit wider. How much wider, depends on the design of the bottom of the piece. For example, I would make it extend above a wraparound plinth by the same width as the other stiles and rails.

Hopefully, I've understood your question correctly, and hopefully my answer is clear as well.  

Brad


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## wrightclan (13 Mar 2007)

engineer one":2plbfewj said:


> the other thought is how do you fit the back and sides together???
> well you know what i mean? i was thinking about rebates in the side and a bottom rail, and then capped by a top rail to hold it in place yet allow movement of the cherry. although will it move that much at those sizes???
> 
> 
> ...



That depends entirely on the design of your back. If you make a frame and panel back or a sheet material back (veneered ply or MDF) then there will be no significant movement to be concerned about. 

If on the other hand, it were to be solid cherry with the grain vertical, then the cross-grain movement will work against the stable long-grain of the top and bottom rails, and you will have to attach it in a way that allows for movement at those points. As a matter of fact, if that were the case, I would dispense with the top and bottom rails, if it were a solid wood panel.

Brad


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## engineer one (13 Mar 2007)

nice to get some replies at last. let me see if i can be more specific.

how do you design the sizes of the frame and panels so that they look in keeping??? that is the basic question. is there a formula rather like the "golden section" that says if the front is 24 inches wide, then the frame should be 2 inches or 2.75 etc.
in the same way for the sides. are there any preferred rations??

i intend to use mdf panels since i like the idea of flat panels, and make
the frame slightly chamfered.

but it will not be a face frame design, i intend to make the whole thing of a frame and panel back and two frame and panel sides. with the front being a drawer unit.

so i was thinking about using the "dust panels" as the places to attach the sides and back, above and below the drawers will be solid cherry with grain across the piece, but not sure about making a frame for the front sides. think that the drawers will provide all i need.

hopefully that makes it clearer. :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## mr (13 Mar 2007)

Sorry cant help with the dimensions but the rear frame and panel fitted into rebates in the sides would seem to be workable. 

May I point to Phill's Krenov cabinet as my evidence  

http://www.philsville.co.uk/krenov1.htm


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## wrightclan (13 Mar 2007)

engineer one":3gqzvu4m said:


> how do you design the sizes of the frame and panels so that they look in keeping??? that is the basic question. is there a formula rather like the "golden section" that says if the front is 24 inches wide, then the frame should be 2 inches or 2.75 etc.
> in the same way for the sides. are there any preferred rations??
> 
> :roll:
> ...



I don't know of any formula, though there may be. In commercially available furniture, I think it tends to vary with current fashions (or rather the cynic in me says that the fashion is driven by the furniture/kitchen/designer industry to make everyone want to keep up with the Jones's.) :wink: 

I would just go with what you think looks good. Maybe look at available furniture/pictures, and see what you think looks about right.

Sorry, not sure what you mean by "dust panels."  

Brad


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## wrightclan (13 Mar 2007)

mr":28787rx0 said:


> Sorry cant help with the dimensions but the rear frame and panel fitted into rebates in the sides would seem to be workable.
> 
> May I point to Phill's Krenov cabinet as my evidence
> 
> http://www.philsville.co.uk/krenov1.htm



Yes, absolutely. The joins will be long grain to long-grain, or stile to stile. So they will move together, rather than against one another. I would also watch for any interior framing where grain might be perpendicular to an adjacent piece. Though with an all frame and panel construction, that is unlikely or minimal. 

Brad


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## engineer one (13 Mar 2007)

dust panels are the bits between drawers that often support drawers, but also keep dust off the drawers.

anyway thanks for the help, now i will try draw it full size and see what it looks like :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## wrightclan (13 Mar 2007)

Yeah, that should be no problem with movement as the rails and stiles of the dust panels will move in line with the rails and stiles of the sides and backs. That's why frame and panel construction is so effective if done correctly.  

As I usually use face frame, I would normally make the dust panels as just a framework, as opposed to a complete panel. But again, if it is rail and stile in construction, it will move with the rails and stiles of the case.

Brad


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