# Taking out bowing with hand plane



## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

Hi there all woodworkers

I came across a problem this afternoon. I use hand tools only ( don’t have enough room for machinery).
this mor ing I set out to flatten some timbers for edge jointing for m new project.
started with my jack plane and took out the cupping from the stock and took the winding out. Everything was okay until I realised there is a bowing to it. I have cut it down to 150 cm for what I require.
Could you please tell me how to take the. Owing out?
Thank yiu


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## Jacob (24 Dec 2020)

Basically keep on planing, both sides, ends on the concave side, middle on the other. Keep on looking at how it's going and adjusting accordingly. Main thing to avoid is taking too much of one end and not enough off the other.
If it's not cupped or winding this is where a long plane helps; 7or 8, or better still a long woody - longer and lighter than a steel plane.


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## custard (24 Dec 2020)

SMALMALEKI said:


> I have cut it down to 150 cm for what I require.



There's an important lesson in your experience. Here comes another one of those endless woodworking sayings...

"Always leave the wood as long as possible _for as long as possible_."

It's easy to glue a bit back onto the side the make a component _wider_, it's virtually impossible to glue a bit on the end to make a component _longer. _So never cut to final length until you absolutely have to.

Hopefully you'll get away with it this time, but remember it for next time.

Good luck!


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## Jacob (24 Dec 2020)

custard said:


> There's an important lesson in your experience. Here comes another one of those endless woodworking sayings...
> 
> "Always leave the wood as long as possible _for as long as possible_."
> 
> ...


Yes and no - this causes confusion.
The rule is to cut to your cutting list but start with the _longest_ pieces on the list, work you way through, cutting them from the _shortest_ possible pieces from your stock. So you don't cut up a nice long bit into shorter ones and find you should have saved it for a longer one and can't do it. This sometimes seems counter intuitive but it's usually best to stick with it.
But either way you cut to size _before_ you plane.
You do have to look closely at the sawn wood before planing, to make sure you can actually get the dimension you want, allowing for twist, cups, bends etc. Sometimes this is impossible.


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

Jacob said:


> Basically keep on planing, both sides, ends on the concave side, middle on the other. Keep on looking at how it's going and adjusting accordingly. Main thing to avoid is taking too much of one end and not enough off the other.
> If it's not cupped or winding this is where a long plane helps; 7or 8, or better still a long woody - longer and lighter than a steel plane.



Thank you @Jacob 
I have a number 7 jointer but on the convex side plaining along the grains IMHO will end up with a bowed thinner board. Isn’t it the case?
I was thinking of continuing with jack plane cross grain. And altering the sides and ends /middle.


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

custard said:


> There's an important lesson in your experience. Here comes another one of those endless woodworking sayings...
> 
> Hopefully you'll get away with it this time, but remember it for next time.
> 
> Good luck!



Dear @custard

I really respect your advices but I have to confess this time I am totally lost. How would a longer bowed timber would have been better?
Excuse my lack of understanding.
Saeid


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## Jacob (24 Dec 2020)

SMALMALEKI said:


> Thank you @Jacob
> I have a number 7 jointer but on the convex side plaining along the grains IMHO will end up with a bowed thinner board. Isn’t it the case?
> I was thinking of continuing with jack plane cross grain. And altering the sides and ends /middle.


Not quite sure what you mean but basically you plane off the bow - from the ends on one side and the middle on the other. Sounds like it's already too thin to straighten


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## Jacob (24 Dec 2020)

Jacob said:


> Not quite sure what you mean but basically you plane off the bow - from the ends on one side and the middle on the other. Sounds like it's already too thin to straighten


What Custard meant is that it's usually a good idea to save any long pieces of stock as long as possible (in _time_, as well as length!) in case you end up with all your stock too short. Use up short stuff first. Also use up worst stuff, if it will do. Basic stock keeping.


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## Ttrees (24 Dec 2020)

Are you nose diving off the edges, or are you doing stopped shavings?


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

I got it now. 
basically I have 2*6 At 2.4 m. I need all of them at 150 as my project has a square Frame with three parallel divisions. I have enough thickness to plane the bow out. 
I really appreciate the support of forum.
Saeid


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

Ttrees said:


> Are you nose diving off the edges, or are you doing stopped shavings?



I started with cross grain plaining to remove the cupping and then planed two high corners to take out the twist. Have not planes longitudinal yet.


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## Dovetaildave (24 Dec 2020)

Hi Saeid,

If you are able to share a bit more information, we might be able to assist you better.

Are you able to tell us how much bowing you have on the cupped side?
What is the thickness your working with?
is this length going in between two other straight pieces for jointing?
How many other pieces in total for edging do you have?

What is it that you are making, will other parts will connect to it, batons,shelves,partitions?

Regards,
Dave


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## AJB Temple (24 Dec 2020)

Ron Cosman has a good video (a few in fact) on hand planing boards to get the straight and flat: 

My approach with boards for cabinetry is to keep them as long as practicable whilst planing and thicknessing and not do any cutting to length if I can avoid it until I have enough stock straight and true to do the job. I am just an amateur and if I am not using oak, of which I have good stocks, but something like maple or wage boards (which I am using currently, but which I have to buy), then I want to avoid cutting to length until I am satisfied that I have chosen the best face pieces from my prepared stock. All setting out is done and checked before parts are taken to final dimension. 

Right now I am gradually bringing some laburnum to final thickness and this is all being done by hand and without cutting the plane lengths down. It is very unusual for me to cut to length and_ then_ start planing. To me that is asking for trouble, not just because people tend to overdo it at each end, but also because I am then committed to using a particular piece in a given place. 

I am not sure how Custard (who is professionally trained to a very high level, works) and would be interested to know if he means what he wrote, or Jacob's interpretation of it. 

If I were doing a run of similar window components (say) then this might be different, but I am not a production woodworker. 

For cabinetry I must admit I tend to get close to thickness using my machines, but for good quality work I will do final thicknessing and edge straightening with a very sharp hand plane and as far as possible expect this to be the final finish (ie minimal sanding).


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

Dovetaildave said:


> Hi Saeid,
> 
> If you are able to share a bit more information, we might be able to assist you better.
> 
> ...



Hi Dave 

it’s a shelving for the kitchen I am making. 
I have some smaller pieces to cut. 
timbers I have are 2 by 6 at 2.4 m. 
so for each piece I need two flatten piece to be edge jointed. 
I tried to attach a photo in a hope to show a rough drawing.
Saeid


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## Jacob (24 Dec 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> ...]
> 
> My approach with boards for cabinetry is to keep them as long as practicable whilst planing and thicknessing and not do any cutting to length if I can avoid it until I have enough stock straight and true to do the job.......


Well you can get away with it but it is inefficient and wasteful.
Always cut to length, width, depth, first, before planing - with enough allowance to reach the size needed.
A rule of thumb is that _planing_ takes off about 3 to 6mm typically - hence 1" 25mm _bought planed_ timber varies finished from 18 to 21mm in thickness , depending on how straight it was to start with. It's referred to as ex 25mm

If a _sawn_ piece is say 6' long and an inch out of flat you have to plane off an inch.
If you cut it in 2 first then each piece only needs 1/2 an inch taking off. 2 thicker pieces.
Also it's much easier to handle and plane shorter pieces, though if very short you could leave them as one and then cut to length.
This is absolutely basic common, normal, stock control, not a theory of my making!


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## AJB Temple (24 Dec 2020)

It's not my experience. I very rarely buy sawn boards that I have not selected and checked. I very rarely buy anything that is twisted or warped and the two local suppliers I use know that I will be careful - they expect it. Most of the hardwood boards I buy are 3m long and upwards to around 4m. Nothing gets used until it is acclimatised to my house. The maple and wenge I am currently using, I bought over a year ago (Oct 2019). 





Each to his own, but once I have cut a piece close to length, I am stuck with it however much planing it needs. often I want to see what the grain is like. The above is some of my stock. Some of the maple boards on the right have been through the PT, they are very regular and can be marked up for final selection and hand planing. The Wenge boards on the left (there are about a dozen in fact) are just rough sawn currently. I would not risk selecting from Wenge boards before at least a quick plane in the PT, because quite frankly wenge quality is very variable these days (in my limited experience). 

As I say, I am just a DIYer and have no professional woodwork training. However, very little goes in the scrap bin on route to the log burner


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## SMALMALEKI (24 Dec 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> It's not my experience. I very rarely buy sawn boards that I have not selected and checked. I very rarely buy anything that is twisted or warped and the two local suppliers I use know that I will be careful - they expect it. Most of the hardwood boards I buy are 3m long and upwards to around 4m. Nothing gets used until it is acclimatised to my house. The maple and wenge I am currently using, I bought over a year ago (Oct 2019).
> 
> View attachment 99151
> View attachment 99152
> ...


 
I like your wood collection. Very nice  selection.


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## Woody2Shoes (25 Dec 2020)

custard said:


> There's an important lesson in your experience. Here comes another one of those endless woodworking sayings...
> 
> "Always leave the wood as long as possible _for as long as possible_."
> 
> ...


Excellent point. I always remind myself that I have far more (and more interesting) ways to make a piece of wood smaller than to make one larger.


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## Jacob (25 Dec 2020)

AJB Temple said:


> It's not my experience. I very rarely buy sawn boards that I have not selected and checked. I very rarely buy anything that is twisted or warped and the two local suppliers I use know that I will be careful - they expect it. Most of the hardwood boards I buy are 3m long and upwards to around 4m. Nothing gets used until it is acclimatised to my house. The maple and wenge I am currently using, I bought over a year ago (Oct 2019).
> 
> View attachment 99151
> View attachment 99152
> ...


Each to his own, as you say!
Doing very "ordinary" work we also take note of surfaces. At the very least, throughout the job, marking everything with best face and edge marks, selecting for material where knots and un-straight grain not suitable e.g. glazing bars, etc.
So these may take precedence over the basic rule of cutting longest pieces first from smallest pieces possible.
PS the good news about cupped/twisted/bowed material is that at least we know it has dried out to some extent (it was straight when first sawn). Buy it straight and it might still end up cupped/twisted/bowed! Caveat emptor!


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