# Am I still in the same Universe?



## Graham Orm (30 Mar 2016)

Or have I slipped through into some other dimension where beauty skill and quality are the enemy? I know I've started a thread on this before, and did look for it to add this but couldn't find it, so here we go again. 

Pallet wood furniture is totally lost on me. Just look at the comments at the side! It's a coffee table, would you have it in your lounge? Would you display it proudly as a creation of your own?


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## lurker (30 Mar 2016)

Pallets are great for making compost heaps


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## dean0866 (30 Mar 2016)

and for repairing beehives.....


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## Cheshirechappie (30 Mar 2016)

Oh, I don't know. You could stack quite a bit of stuff on it, there's no gaps for stuff to drop through, there's space under it to wrap banding round to secure the load, and there's plenty of space to get the forklift forks in. Maybe the legs are a bit long, though - wasted space when they're stacked.

In my lounge? Nah.


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## DTR (30 Mar 2016)

To be fair it still looks better than some of the pallet "furniture" I've seen....


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## ardenwoodcraft (30 Mar 2016)

Recycled pallets and the industrial look are the new shabby chic. (hammer) ](*,) 

Probably because the TV programme makers can't think of anything totally new these days. :duno: #-o


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## blackrodd (30 Mar 2016)

As DTR Says, That table is pretty good compared to some of the really bad stuff.
Exactly the opposite of quality and craftmanship,
When you're fed up with it, throw it on the fire!
Rodders


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## ColeyS1 (30 Mar 2016)

Perhaps he likes woodworking and the pallet wood is all he can afford ?

Coley


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## Cheshirechappie (30 Mar 2016)

ColeyS1":khayu9dy said:


> Perhaps he likes woodworking and the pallet wood is all he can afford ?
> 
> Coley



Well, he can afford a digital camera or fancy phone, and a computer with interwebs access so he can post stuff on Facepalm, so he's not completely skint. I'm sure he could run to a few sticks of joinery grade redwood if he wanted to.


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## No skills (30 Mar 2016)

Oh the snobbery, love it  

Before anybody calls pot kettle black I'm a tool snob, I don't deny it.


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## rafezetter (31 Mar 2016)

hands up all of you who learned your craft soley by practising joints over and over and over on quality hardwoods..... anyone?

for all you know this could be only the 3rd or 4th time this person has made anything like this, and I agree it looks better than most other offerings.

however; none of you have had a kind word to say that he's taken firewood and made it into something practical and useable, which is what *all wordworking* is about - from there it's only degrees of separation, but the function of the work is the same.

It's only modernity and a lack of having to fight every day just to stave off hunger that has allowed people to place different labels and levels of expectation on items that perform the very same function. A coffee table is a coffee table is a coffee table, how it looks is irrelevant, the materials it's made from is also irrelevant, if it does performs it's function without issue, what exactly can you say is inherantly "wrong" with it?

it's elitism at it's worst and why there are so few posts of "look what I made" that are from anyone other than experienced woodworkers. YOU may not like that piece but you can bet your a$$ the maker is, and rightly so. 

This is supposed to be the biggest and "best" UK woodworking forum yet the elitest BS that gets spewed from this place all the time is terrible.

An idea occurs that would be an interesting challenge for the naysayers: "make something inherently better, using the same materials, taking just 1 day to do so. Without using anything other than basic tools. No handplanes, card scrapers etc or other timesavers like pockethole jigs & no machines apart from a handheld sander and drill"

as you've got YEARS and YEARS of experience the 1 day should be more than sufficient to knock out a masterpiece.

This is no different than the car drivers who honk their horns impatiently at a learner driver or complain about old people getting in their way.

it disgusts me.

Only a few days ago we had a new member post a very frank and open "hello" about how he was going to be using woodworking as a means of outlet and therapy for a mental health issue (which I do as well). Yet now we have a post that basically carps over any project with less than perfect execution, design lines or material used.

What do you think the chances are that that gentleman will post any WIP's or other pics for advice now? Slim to none.

a while ago someone broached the idea of separating the forum into "professionals" and "amateurs" - who summarily got shot down for the suggestion...

But you know what? He was right; because it's clear that there forum members who clearly think some other forum members or lurkers are "playing in the wrong yard". I consider myself to be among the latter, and it's a feeling I felt both times I've went to Richard A's open day, _and_ Peter Sefton's day more recently, as though I was an imposter.

I used to want to be "part of the club", to feel like I deserved to be there, but now I realise I DO deserve to be there by simple fact of being interested in making stuff from wood, and it's those among YOU who make me (and probably others) feel undeserving.


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## Graham Orm (31 Mar 2016)

Rafa, Have you heard yourself?

I'm not out to attack anyone's work. I'm making the point that I don't understand the obsession with calling poorly made constructions from scrap wood, 'furniture' andthen pasting pictures and expecting praise. The guy is American and will probably never see this or any of the other 'sheesh' posts that are made about it so it won't be upsetting him. You don't have to be Thomas Chippendale to form an instant opinion on the table. It's tacky, crude and a vile colour.

As for trying to make something in a day using a pen kife and a pot of glue, why would I? I'd end up with junk.


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## DTR (31 Mar 2016)

There is an ongoing trend at the moment for making things from pallet wood. Not because it's a cheap source of wood, but purely for the sake of it being pallet. Let's not forget that there are plenty of other sources for quality reclaimed wood besides pallet.


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## John15 (31 Mar 2016)

I wonder if this type of furniture appeals mainly to young people passing through their anti establishment period. 

John


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## lurker (31 Mar 2016)

I dont think it was a comment about the materials nor the execution, but of the horrible design.
I have used pallet wood but its not generally much good and could put off a budding woodworker before they start.

Other than sheet material I dont think I have bought any wood for at least 15 years.
There is plenty of decent wood around just waiting to be recycled.


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## Cheshirechappie (31 Mar 2016)

John15":30tdk9at said:


> I wonder if this type of furniture appeals mainly to young people passing through their anti establishment period.
> 
> John



I think there's much truth in that. There's also a fashion for something called 'virtue-signalling', which is when people make a big noise about how environmentally aware, or socially responsible, or whatever, they are. There's a strong whiff of that in the comments attached to the picture.

If someone wants to make things from old pallets, fine. Nothing wrong with that - and as a couple of people pointed out, they're quite appropriate for some jobs. However, setting it up as a sort of 'fashion statement' does invite comment, and if I'm honest, it's a furniture genre that does nothing for me. If people disagree with my opinion, that's fine; it's not the first time, it won't be the last, and I can live with it. It's only my opinion, after all; it's no more valid than anybody else's.


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## DTR (31 Mar 2016)

Cheshirechappie":2pot81m6 said:


> There's also a fashion for something called 'virtue-signalling', which is when people make a big noise about how *environmentally aware*, or socially responsible, or whatever, they are.



There is a certain irony (hypocrisy?) of those people making such claims on social media, posting from an extremely polluting smart phone that probably gets chucked into landfill every two years....


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## BearTricks (31 Mar 2016)

John15":106o03ih said:


> I wonder if this type of furniture appeals mainly to young people passing through their anti establishment period.
> 
> John



I'm 25 so I think I'd probably qualify as a young person. I'd probably say that if a young person even had chance to go through an anti-establishment period (whatever that is) these days, they probably don't have the luxury of applying it to furniture. My anti-establishment phase ended at eighteen once I realised that it's unrealistic to go round dressed like a punk from thirty years ago, and prior to that I only rebelled by listening to music that no one else around me seemed to be listening to and hanging round in places that vaguely inconvenienced the people living nearby. 

These days, youth culture seems to be so homogenised that I don't think these subcultures exist in the same capacity anyway. Furniture is the last thing on the mind of young people now everyone seems to be busy navigating the reality of living with a useless degree and working towards getting a barista apprenticeship that requires two years management experience.

That said, I think that the most anti-establishment the furniture world gets is these days is grumpy woodworkers railing against ikea and oak furniture land over a cup of tea in a dingy shed somewhere. (Or, perhaps on the internet)

If anything, this style of furniture is most popular with the bored DIY housewife blogs with their kreg jigs and home depot timber. Everyone can speculate.

Back to the topic. I don't like it personally because I can't imagine a house that it would look good in. I completely agree, however, that most of these comments are snobbery based on the anger that sometimes comes from not understanding something. There is literally no difference between making a bad piece of furniture from a chunk of nice mahogany, and making a bad piece of furniture from some pallets. If It were mahogany, it would probably at least get some constructive criticism rather than wild speculation about who's perpetuating the trend. I'm probably happier to see the pallets being used than smashed up in a builders yard.

N.B. My house has furniture that comes from ikea or even asda, nice stuff bought second hand on ebay, things I bought at the charity shop and did up, heirloom stuff from my grandparents, and stuff I built from scratch. A mix of mid-century, industrial, victorian, modern etc etc etc. I can't afford to buy overpriced or even fairly priced sometimes, so I get what I can for a price that I think is good. I wish I had the luxury of being anti-establishment, but then again if I had an idea for something nice that I could build from pallets, then I'd probably do so, and ikea come out with some nice stuff sometimes.


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## n0legs (2 Apr 2016)

I wonder if that is really "pallet wood" or someone jumping on the wagon of band.
Is there a WIP?


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## MIGNAL (2 Apr 2016)

Look you lot, stop chewing over words and tell it straight. It's f'king garbage. :shock:


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## No skills (2 Apr 2016)

Well #disappointed I though this one would run on a bit, nope.
The faux environmental aspects are a good point, I try to recycle materials a fair bit but don't pretend that I don't live a modern life.
Perhaps we need a sharpening thread.


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## t8hants (2 Apr 2016)

The point as I see it is someone has gone to the trouble to make something.
I can think of some highly crafted pieces both antique and modern that I think are horrendous looking, but that is irrelevant as beauty is in the eye, etc. 
The labels attached to it because of the emotional reaction of the viewer are all of equal weight and irrelevance.

If the OP was put up in the hope of seeing 45 pages of hissing and spitting between the pro and anti camps - grief what a bore and we should all go do some planing using our preferred sharpening method.


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## ColeyS1 (2 Apr 2016)

Who's to say the maker isn't recovering from a severe accident ? What's to say he's not partially sighted or has some other disibility. Without knowing the back story, posting a picture and just slagging it off doesn't really portray what the forum is really about.
It's easy to find fault- do something better with similar resources and then see how you feel when someone posts about it saying awful it is. Shame on you !
Why not rub it in and message him saying he's got too much time on his hands- that's my personal favourite 

Perhaps he's just doing the best he can with what he's got- who knows

Coley


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

It's junk. Why pretend it's anything else? There's masses of it posted and it's all junk. It's put out there for people to see and pass comment on. My comment is that it's junk. This guy isn't an ex veteran who can only use one foot, he's one of many who make this stuff and post pictures of it. We don't all have to pretend it's good. It isn't.

I realise it's not a good thing to criticize someone else's work, I wouldn't like it. But then I wouldn't post something like this and expect praise. To me it looks like something an enthusiastic 12 year old might make......one with no taste at all.


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## thick_mike (2 Apr 2016)

It looks like it was designed in Minecraft.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Apr 2016)

I wish I knew how to post the link - Harry Enfield's "I saw you coming" Someone oblige, please? We can at least get back to laughing.


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## ColeyS1 (2 Apr 2016)

What if there's a young kid looking at said 'junk' thinking "dya know what, I think I might try doing that" is that not a good thing that it might be the stepping stone to getting someone into woodworking ? If all we ever saw was immaculately designed and executed pieces it'd put more people off by thinking it was beyond their capabilities.
The thing I dislike most about your original post is you made it personal by singling him out by posting his name and mocking the responses. I think that's cowardly if you don't offer the chance for him to reply.

Coley


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

phil.p":2hhp2y27 said:


> I wish I knew how to post the link - Harry Enfield's "I saw you coming" Someone oblige, please? We can at least get back to laughing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUnvgKhWZdI


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

ColeyS1":34h8hpgm said:


> What if there's a young kid looking at said 'junk' thinking "dya know what, I think I might try doing that" is that not a good thing that it might be the stepping stone to getting someone into woodworking ? If all we ever saw was immaculately designed and executed pieces it'd put more people off by thinking it was beyond their capabilities.
> The thing I dislike most about your original post is you made it personal by singling him out by posting his name and mocking the responses. I think that's cowardly if you don't offer the chance for him to reply.
> 
> Coley



OK


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## mind_the_goat (2 Apr 2016)

Graham Orm":15w762is said:


> It's junk. Why pretend it's anything else?



He made it, that on it's own deserves credit
He likes it, who are we to judge other peoples taste.
He's proud of it, and why not, I would guess he doesn't have the benefit of years of professional instruction or masses of free time to hone his skills. even if he did, he likes it. 
He shared it with his friends, why not, he hasn't submitted it to an academy or asked liberty to sell it for him.
Maybe you think he shouldn't have bothered and just spent a few more hours watching TV, or perhaps brought something from DFOakFurnitureScrapLand or whatever, or maybe saved up for a few years and commissioned someone with 'taste' to build him something?


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## Bm101 (2 Apr 2016)

I'd rather see someone making stuff than not. That's the full extent of my opinion. Whether I like it or not is to all intents and purpose irrelevant. We all have different tastes, that's the point isn't it? Maybe in a few years that fella will be making top quality joinery. Maybe not. It's his choice though isn't it. Right I'm just back from work so I'm going down to the shed to try making my first Jig. The Jig I convinced myself I didn't need all of a week ago. We all have the right to change our minds and progress don't we?


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Apr 2016)

I for one am not about to spare the guy's feelings. It's junk.


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

You guys having a go are completely missing my point. 
I'm not attacking the guy. He's one of many, good luck to him and his descendants. It's the trend that grates with me. Someone knocked something together from scrap wood and it caught on. It's ugly, tasteless, just in case there's any danger of it looking like furniture they paint it a garish colour.


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## No skills (2 Apr 2016)

Which is your opinion which of course you are entitled to, probably not for too much longer if the EU have anything to do with it


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

No skills":rbh3mswf said:


> Which is your opinion which of course you are entitled to, probably not for too much longer if the EU have anything to do with it


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## John933 (2 Apr 2016)

For you who think palate wood is junk. well done. That means there is more for me. Spare bit of wood for a job. Cut it down and use. Woun't say what I've made from palates. But save a bomb. Free wood for the asking.
John933


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## Bm101 (2 Apr 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlBtabKRFM

Here ya go Graham, You're gonna love this. It's hand crafted to the highest standards mate.


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## Graham Orm (2 Apr 2016)

Bm101":22nm3amx said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRlBtabKRFM
> 
> Here ya go Graham, You're gonna love this. It's hand crafted to the highest standards mate.


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## Graham Orm (3 Apr 2016)

OK I surrender. Masterchef!


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## novocaine (4 Apr 2016)

put it on nicer legs and it's not too bad. from the tiny image, he's done a good job of making the top and it's got a nice finish on it. 
the rest (which I'm thinking is more likely not pallet wood) is a bit nasty looking, but hey at least he's tried. 

I will point out that it's stood in a workshop with a well worn ply floor (most likely from a lot of work in the space) which suggests to me he's got access to more than just basic tooling to me, but then, in the states, doesn't everyone have access to more than basic tools?

having said that, it's posted on woodworking for mere mortals, a group thats run by Steve Ramsey, a guy who is all about trying to get people to make more, so maybe we shouldn't be knocking it after all.


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## BearTricks (4 Apr 2016)

There's probably a happy medium here somewhere.


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## No skills (4 Apr 2016)

I don't know, I haven't seen MysticDave post here for a long time.


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## Bm101 (4 Apr 2016)

I love the fact you came up with Mystic Dave. It's like 'I'll only invest a certain amount of energy into this web based pun.'


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## lincs1963 (7 Apr 2016)

Graham Orm":mxx1w5cy said:


> It's junk. Why pretend it's anything else? There's masses of it posted and it's all junk. It's put out there for people to see and pass comment on. My comment is that it's junk. This guy isn't an ex veteran who can only use one foot, he's one of many who make this stuff and post pictures of it. We don't all have to pretend it's good. It isn't.
> 
> I realise it's not a good thing to criticize someone else's work, I wouldn't like it. But then I wouldn't post something like this and expect praise. To me it looks like something an enthusiastic 12 year old might make......one with no taste at all.


Self righteous snob.


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Apr 2016)

Right though.


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## Markvk (7 Apr 2016)

Ive resisted this thread for sooooo long.... but as the borg would say.... resistance is futile 

Hears my pile of pallets waiting to be converted into something useful.....







Here's my other pile of scrounged wood again waiting to be transformed..... in that lot are 4 10x10 by 4ft solid pieces of what I think is oak. My brother was going to chop it up and burn it.... :shock:






Now here is one of my pallet/reclaimed wood projects:






I'm actually quite proud of it! I'm no professional woodworker and it seems to make no sense to turn proper wood into chips when I can use pallets. Trago Mills our local outlet store used to give them away and are now selling them! the rails and panels are all reclaimed pallets and I learned how to re saw, plane, thickness, make rebates, tongue and v grooves mortise and tenons and none of it cost me a penny.

So what are we actually saying here? I think the OP has a valid point but may have expressed it shall we say a little bluntly. He wasn't having a go at a forum member but even so being quite so derisive of someone's hard work seems a little unfair to me and it would certainly put me off posting pictures of my wood butchery for help or critique. It takes all sorts to make a world and although the table in question is not to my taste it is probably better than something that I could currently produce!!  

So I guess my take is that using reclaimed wood of any type is preferable to wasting good wood that "proper" carpenters use and "proper" carpenters should be grateful that I'm leaving the "good" wood for them  

Although no offense was intended to any person by the OP and was more a comment on a trend/fashion, it should be remembered that such posts can be off putting to newer fourum members and non "proper" carpenters...

well that's my 4 penneth (hammer)


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## Graham Orm (7 Apr 2016)

Markvk":2x2hpeqh said:


> Ive resisted this thread for sooooo long.... but as the borg would say.... resistance is futile
> 
> Hears my pile of pallets waiting to be converted into something useful.....
> 
> ...



EDIT: I'd placed my comment in the middle of the quoted post!

Fair comment. I like the door. That is 'proper' use of the wood. Some thought and effort has clearly gone in. Well done, keep up the good work and keep posting pictures. No matter what your skill level, there's always someone better. Everyone has to learn.


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## Graham Orm (3 May 2016)




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