# Traditional finishes for beech?



## MarkDennehy (10 Jun 2018)

Quick question (like "how do you sharpen?" is quick I suspect) - what's considered a traditional finish for beech? 
Apart from staining it, that is - I'm happy for it to look like beech, it's kindof nice.


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## Steliz (10 Jun 2018)

I don't know what is traditional but I like to maintain the natural look of the wood as much as possible and recently I've tried sealer followed by wax or lemon oil and I'm very happy with that.


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## Beau (10 Jun 2018)

I suppose the most beech I have seen was school desks and chairs. Looked like a clear varnish was used.


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Jun 2018)

It takes Danish Oil well.


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

How is it being used Mark?

Water based varnishes are simple enough and don't yellow the timber too badly, they offer decent protection except for red wine and fruit juice where they're pretty useless. Osmo PolyX will darken the timber a bit more and you'll never get a really brilliant gloss, but it will provide better protection and spills and stains. Osmo Raw offers the same protection as PolyX but preserves the paleness of the timber better, however it's basically very low shine/almost matt only. As Phil says, Danish Oil works well too, they vary brand to brand but generally they'll darken the wood a whisker more than Osmo, they give a similar level of shine, and the better ones offer roughly similar protection.

It's really about what level of protection you need, what level of gloss you want, and how much you want to preserve the pale colour?


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## MarkDennehy (10 Jun 2018)

It's a toy for a 13-year-old girl Custard (note that I didn't say a child's toy because I like having all my fingers  ). It's a school locker for one of her dolls. 







That's not quite finished yet, there's a door to go on still (but that was yesterday and today the carcass is basically finished in the white unless I go nuts and add stringing which I'm rather itching to). It doesn't have a close deadline and in fact I have to take a quick break on it to work on a fathers day gift but that's also in beech, it's a japanese toolbox design:






Again, not done yet and I just had to redo the sides completely, but the main carcass for that is now glued up and I'm hoping to get the dowel pins made for it tonight, and this one I do want to put some stringing on. 
Also, you might recognise the material for the lid


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## MikeG. (10 Jun 2018)

I'm a recent convert to water based lacquers. They don't yellow, and you can even get them with a white tint to combat yellowing of the wood over time. Dead easy to apply, too.


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

Mike, the whole white tint thing is to combat _short term_ yellowing rather than over time.

I've tested a few, and I've seen tests on more from other makers. They work superbly well when they're not exposed to direct sun, but it doesn't take that long in a south facing location before they're indistinguishable from similar finishes without a tint.

Incidentally, when I originally trained as a cabinet maker it was still common practise, when hammer veneering a paler timber, to add a pinch of white pigment to your hide glue in order not to yellow the result...at least until after the piece had been sold and delivered!


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

MarkDennehy":3k483ym6 said:


> Also, you might recognise the material for the lid



Very smart too...and I can't think of a better use for it!


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

Actually Mark's photos remind me of another issue with tinted finishes. They're fine with normal grain, but when you get the ripple or fiddleback figure that are so common with many paler timbers (see the Rippled Sycamore in Mark's project), you'd find that a tint would kill the chatoyance and subtlety of that ripple stone dead. 

To make ripple figure pop you really need some kind of oil based finish. It's a tough call with stuff like Rippled Sycamore or Fiddleback Maple, do you enhance the figure and yellow the project, or retain the pale look but fail to squeeze all the impact from the figure? There's really no finishing option that allows you to do both.


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## sunnybob (10 Jun 2018)

oil based wipe on poly.

looks good on streaky;


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## ED65 (10 Jun 2018)

How far back do you want to go Mark? Everything was finished in the same old standbys – wax or oil – if you go back far enough. A tad more recently (mid-20th century onwards) commercial beech stuff was very frequently done in spray lacquer, as was most other stuff needless to say. 

What you're doing isn't going to need loads of protection like a tabletop so a scant few coats of wiping varnish would do fine, and it won't yellow the beech too much if you use a varnish that isn't especially amber to begin with. Centre handle here is beech after four wiped-on coats of poly, on top of two coats of shellac sanding sealer. Here it is in the white so you can see the colour change.


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

MarkDennehy":1ko90uk4 said:


> It's a toy for a 13-year-old girl



I'd stay away from oil because it'll smell rancid if you finish the inside, and whatever she stores in it will also end up ponging. 

A couple of coats of water based varnish is all you need, or some sanding sealer followed by wax, but buff well to avoid any transfer of wax onto doll's clothes.


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## MarkDennehy (10 Jun 2018)

custard":3egccljx said:


> I'd stay away from oil because it'll smell rancid if you finish the inside


Slight aside on that one - does that ever finish offgassing and just smell neutral or is it going to smell for years?


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## custard (10 Jun 2018)

Even if it isn't quite years and years it can feel like it!

One of the reasons many makers switched from Danish Oil type products to Osmo is if you want to finish a cabinet with a door, or a blanket chest with a lid, then it's often a nice touch to finish the inside of the door/lid, with Osmo if you leave the component for a week or two after finishing the inside with a single coat, then buff hard, you can just about get away with it. If you did that with DO the client be retching.


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## ED65 (11 Jun 2018)

Aside #2: that characteristic smell of linseed oil? That's actually the smell of rancid linseed oil. 

Rancid is a food term really, in finishing it doesn't have as much relevance because generally we want oils to be oxidised. In fact the more oxidised an oil is before you use it the better; same basic principle as pre-polymerised oils. This is why some oldsters using up a container of raw linseed oil they've had in the shed since the Queen's silver jubilee might have a slightly unrealistic idea of how long RLO takes to 'dry' :lol:


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Jun 2018)

Rancid Linseed Oil?


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## MarkDennehy (13 Jun 2018)

Typical really, after all my wondering, the boss lady wants her locker to be purple  
Crimson guitars stain to the rescue. 
Almost seems a shame to me...






The japanese toolbox on the other hand, is definitely NOT going to be purple...


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## ED65 (13 Jun 2018)

MarkDennehy":2czw10gp said:


> Typical really, after all my wondering, the boss lady wants her locker to be purple
> Crimson guitars stain to the rescue.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 

<sobers up> but what are you going to put on top of it? Seriously though, had you thought about paint? With paint you get an all-in-one deal, no need to worry about what finish you'll use on top of the colour or how the exposed end grain will try to suck up more stain and end up much darker.


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## MarkDennehy (17 Jun 2018)

The danish oil came up nicely (I diluted the first coat with 50% turps and gave a final buffed coat of beeswax paste): 






It worked well on the rippled sycamore also, didn't save the lovely white colour, but popped the figuring very nicely indeed which I thought in this case was more important. I suppose a lighter oil might work better there, but I didn't have any to hand  






Still though, not complaining, it made for a very nice fathers' day present.


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## ED65 (18 Jun 2018)

That came out great Mark. The rippled sycamore looks fantastic! 

FWIW I think the sycamore has stayed pale enough but if you'd like to experiment with lighter-coloured oils for popping figure walnut is probably top of the list, it's both lighter in colour initially and yellows less over time than linseed (or tung) and has a long history of use as a wood finish. For an even lighter oil you can be sure will 'dry' you could try poppy oil from the art-supply places, it's _very_ light in colour, but you pay an arm and a leg for it. 

Caveat: both dry slowly enough that you shouldn't expect to be able to do one coat a day although that's possible in the summer, especially if you dilute since less oil is deposited so it can oxidise faster.


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## MarkDennehy (18 Jun 2018)

It was actually poppy oil I was thinking of ED (I'd heard of it before through other routes entirely), but walnut oil I could see being useful as well. I must see if I can find a source, though I've no project in mind that needs it for the next while, given that the thing I'm now working on needs to be stained bright purple 

Actually, I must see what happens if you stain the wood and afterwards run stringing through it, if it leeches when you finish the surface or anything like that.


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## custard (18 Jun 2018)

Your Japanese box is a real triumph Mark. Seriously, it's absolutely superb.

It's beautifully made, looks wonderful, it's original with a fascinating back story, and it's very useful. I'm sure your father, and indeed anyone else, would be as pleased as punch to receive that as a gift. 

Maybe you could make another sometime and post it up as a WIP? I'm sure loads of people here would like to follow in your footsteps on a project like that...me included!

=D>


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## MarkDennehy (18 Jun 2018)

At this rate Custard, I'll need to learn to make a door first so I can fit wider ones in the house for my head 
But I'd like to make a few more of those; they're a fun little design, especially the locking wedge setup, and I try to make wooden doodads for junior's school to sell in their xmas bazaar and I have rather a lot of beech lying around so why not...


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## MarkDennehy (18 Jun 2018)

Actually, speaking of backstory, the walnut for the pegs and the key in that fathers day gift came from offcuts for the cot for his first granddaughter (my niece). Goes to show, homemade gifts have the ability to reach itches others can't scratch


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## MarkDennehy (24 Jun 2018)

And the not-so traditional finish, just for fits and giggles...












Stained with Crimson Guitars "stunning stains shot" in purple (can you tell), with a top coat of gloss lacquer and a final polish of renaissance wax.


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