# Bargain or problem?



## Bodrighy (16 Jun 2007)

Just spotted this on ebay. Is it worth looking at, or is there a reason no-one has bid yet?


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## DaveL (17 Jun 2007)

This looks to be the same as the cheap scroll saws that Screwfix sell, now called Titan I have one in green when they were called Ferm.
I have used mine but its not good for fine scroll work, I used it to cut curves before I had a bandsaw. I have now bought a SIP scroll saw.
I think you would be better off saving up and getting a SIP or buying from Screwfix, less hassle for shipping back if it breaks.


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## Gill (17 Jun 2007)

It's single speed, uses pin-headed blades, it isn't produced by a renowned manufacturer and there's no mention of weight. Furthermore, the saw's description suggests the retailer is not familiar with the English language, let alone the English market!

Try not to succumb to the temptation of a bargain scroll saw as an introduction to fretwork/scrolling. Sometimes woodworkers think a cheap saw will give them a taste of scrolling; if they don't like it they can discard it later having made minimal financial outlay. However, these saws usually _don't_ give you a fair idea of what scrolling is about. The first hand plane I ever bought was a cheap Stanley RB11 (I think that was its name) which had disposable blades. It performed dreadfully, giving me a very distorted impression of hand planes. Many years later I tried a proper plane and realised just what I had been missing. As a result, I took a lump hammer to the Stanley and made sure it was never used again.

If you buy a scroll saw, get one that other users recommend, preferably after using one. I'm sure there are people here who'll let you try theirs.

Gill


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## Bodrighy (17 Jun 2007)

Thanks Gill, I suspected as much. I'll keep looking. I think we are meeting in a few weeks at Chas's so I'll see what it is all about then hopefully

Pete


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## Intarsiaplans (17 Jun 2007)

Hmmmm....

I got doubts anyway about electrical goods from overseas and this product comes form Germany....Nothing wrong with germany but if it is faulty or what so ever than you're F****D to say it politly.
Than for 40 pounds more including the shipping cost you can buy a better quality saw near your place....Than i also did not see if it had a UK or a Euro connection.

So if i was you i would give this a miss allthough it looks pretty attractive.
But with electrical goods i like to go back to the storeif anything is faulty which is nearby.

Good luck,
Danny


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## Mark68 (17 Jun 2007)

I bought something similar a few years back,,but a faily well know brand,,but still a £30.00 job,,,,it's still in its box in the cubboard.
Ok for basic cutting,,but not much more,,be better off putting the money towards something better.

Gill has summed it up above, you get what you pay for,,,i just got the axminster awfs18 a few weeks ago,,a totally different beast,,a bit more money,,but theres no comparision between the two,,,its brilliant.

I been using it today for the first time in anger  , cutting one of jeff zaffino's patterns,,a dream to use,,,something that you would never be able to do on one of the cheap ones, or if you did,,well to be honest i don't think i would even try..

mark.


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## Taffy Turner (18 Jun 2007)

Hi Mark,

Welcome to the AWFS18 owners club - there are a few of us on here!

A quick search should help you locate the threads in question.

Regards

Gary


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## Anonymous (21 Jun 2007)

The bottom line here is what do you want from a scroll saw ?
If you just want to cut the odd shape out without too many expectations then a cheapie saw like the one in question will do the job.

If you want to get into scroll sawing where there will be lots of internal cuts then don't even consider a saw that takes only pinned blades !
Pinned blades require a larger pilot hole (for clearance) than pinless blades and this dictates the smallest internal cut-out that can be made with such blades.
Even if a saw takes pinless blades, the blade changing system can often be long-winded (as with the Hegner for example) compared to some other saws. This, in my opinion, is a bad design of the Hegner bottom holder and antiquated by todays standards.

It's always tempting to go for the cheapest tool when trying something new but scroll sawing is no different to any other branch of woodworking in this respect. You really do get what you pay for !
Mind you, watch how much you do pay as some high priced saws aren't worth the asking price !


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## chrispuzzle (22 Jun 2007)

Alan- AKA The Woodman":38semkgw said:


> Mind you, watch how much you do pay as some high priced saws aren't worth the asking price !



Alan, I'd be interested to know which high-priced saws you think are not worth the asking price? In the UK there are Diamond and Hegner at the high-end but I can't imagine you mean those brands unless you mean the tools are good but the price is too high?


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## Brucio (22 Jun 2007)

I've got a Ferm, which I bought from Screwfix.
I think there's one maker of this saw, and it's sold under various different names.
On this forum alone, I've found that 
Berlan
Titan
Brunel
Perform
Ferm
are all the same saw.
As Gill says, it uses pin blades, but they do provide clamps for holding pinless blades.
In any case, changing blades is a right pain.
I'm looking for something that's a lot easier to change blades, but I know little about other saws.
Any advice would be welcome...
brucio
http://www.homemadepuzzles.co.uk


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## Anonymous (22 Jun 2007)

chrispuzzle":3goez3tl said:


> Alan- AKA The Woodman":3goez3tl said:
> 
> 
> > Mind you, watch how much you do pay as some high priced saws aren't worth the asking price !
> ...



Hegners are way overpriced in my opinion but yes, they are good tools in their own way.
If they were cutting edge and innovative machines, it would go some way to justifying the high price tags but they are old fashioned and you have to pay a premium just to get quick blade changing !


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## j (22 Jun 2007)

Does anyone know anything about a Delta 16" saw Model 40-530C
I've done a quick search and found no useful information on it.


Thanks
J


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## Mike M (23 Jun 2007)

J,
If you looking at a Delta check the 350, it is a much better saw than the 16"
Mike M


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## j (23 Jun 2007)

Mike,
To be honest, I'm a complete newbie to scrolling, And just noticed the above saw for sale locally for £20.

I've heard of Delta, and thought it might be a bargain.


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## Gill (23 Jun 2007)

I've been looking through various scrolling forums and the consensus about the 350 seems to be that it's regarded as very much an entry-level saw in the American market. Most users quickly upgrade to a machine such as the DeWalt 788 which retails at around $500. Apparently it will struggle with hard woods such as maple and oak and it will even have difficulty coping with 12 mm thick plywood.

I've no experience of the 350 myself but two thoughts spring to mind. Firstly, for £20 you'll at least have a saw produced by a reputable manufacturer and it will give you an insight into scrolling. Secondly, the Delta blade clamping system is pretty good. I don't know how good it was on earlier models such as the 350, but it might be possible to cannibalise the parts in the same way that Alan did here on a good saw which is let down by its blade changing system.

Having said earlier that you get what you pay for, I'm going to be hypocritical now and say that if it was £20 of my money I'd let curiosity get the better of me.

Gill


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## Anonymous (23 Jun 2007)

j":7s1aujb2 said:


> Does anyone know anything about a Delta 16" saw Model 40-530C
> I've done a quick search and found no useful information on it.
> 
> 
> ...



I demoed a 40-530C years ago in my local tool shop but opted to buy a Delta 2 speed machine instead. The 40-530C is single speed but what swayed it for me was the 2 speed machine had Delta's quick clamps on as standard. The 40-530C has a very basic tool-based top and bottom clamp.Blade tensioning on the 40-530C is done via a cam type lever at the back of the saw.
If speed of blade changing isn't an issue for you then £20 isn't a lot to spend on a second-hand Delta which is better quality than most cheap scroll saws.

If you decide to go for it, try to hear/see it running. It should run with very little vibration without being clamped down.


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## Willow (26 Jun 2007)

As a regular user of a Hegner I have to agree with Alan. Whilst it is an excellent machine and has cut 1.1/2" thick oak as well as its more usual tasks associated with 24th scale furniture, it is overpriced. Blade changing is a real pain.

I am interested in and not surprised by the comments re the Axminster AWS18. I could be wrong but, having seen one of these in the flesh, I am sure it is made by Hegner. If not, it is an accurate copy and seems to incorporate some of the Hegner castings. 

I would also advise against the real cheapo's. I had the "pleasure" of having to use one of these on a course that I ran. For fine miniature work we could have achieved the same results or better on a bandsaw with a course blade.. 

Willow


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