# Old homemade Plane



## motownmartin (14 Aug 2007)

I found this old Plane in my Mums garage, it obviously used to be my Dads, he may have even made it himself.

I would like to get it looking decent, so the question is what are the do's and dont's.

I know absolutely zilch about hand planes and how to use them, so any advice will be gratefully received.

Here are some pics











TIA

Martin


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## woodbloke (14 Aug 2007)

Martin - this looks to be in quite good condition. I would firstly remove all the old paint splashes with some stripper or sandpaper and then give the whole thing a really good clean followed by a couple of coats of oil and wax. The blade seems to have plenty of metal left, can't see what the edge is like....may or may not need regrinding and honing, make sure the cap iron seats securely onto the blade. If the sole is hollow thru' use then it's easily straightened by dropping the cutter 6mm and tapping home, place upside down in a vice and take off a few shavings with a longer metal plane until the woodie sole is flat. Should the mouth be too wide then it will need to have an insert let in front of the blade to reduce it, but looking at the pics, I doubt that's the case - Rob


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## engineer one (14 Aug 2007)

strangely enough martin in clearing around lately, i found two of that type
that had been lying around.

they are probably mass produced because of the shaping, and also it is a proprietary blade.

most important thing is to check whether it is flat and square, unless you want to make it for something else. it is probably about 18 inches long.

the blade and chip breaker need cleaning and then sharpening again.  

question is whether you want to learn to use it, or just save it and make it look pretty. :roll: it will probably need some kind of cleaning and maybe even oiling. :? 

can you see who made the blade, then maybe alf or someone can give you an idea of age and style.

good luck

paul :wink:


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## lurker (14 Aug 2007)

Martin,

It looks to me as if its a user "as is" 
Can't see the important bit (mouth) but if its as good as the rest it should be fine.
So.........other than sharpening, I'd do nowt.

If you want to pm me, I'll call in and show you how to set it up.


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## bugbear (14 Aug 2007)

That there's a wooden jack plane, in pretty good condition - the blade in particular is in good nick.

It's unlikely your father made it - these were widely available at low prices from factories.

I would use 0000 wire wool and "paste wax". As the crud comes off, your wax and steel wool will get dirty. Replace the wool when you're spreading more dirt than you're removing 

Be VERY careful not to get wax down the slot where the blade and wedge live, since this will stop the blade being held securely when the plane is used.

Cleaning the blade is just a wire brush exercise. If you sort of squiggle the brush in all direction, the stamped logo should clean up a treat (we'd all like to know who the maker was)

If you're interested in tuning and using the plane, ask again. The above is purely cosmetic.

BugBear


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## motownmartin (14 Aug 2007)

Thanks for the replies so far.

I do want to use this plane but also thought it would be nice cleaned up.

Lurker has seen this plane first hand and as he says it doesn't need anything doing to make it usable apart from sharpening.

The name on the blade is
J. JOWETT
ROYAL ALBION
SHEFFIELD

Martin


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## bugbear (14 Aug 2007)

motownmartin":2yhyf2wr said:


> The name on the blade is
> J. JOWETT
> ROYAL ALBION
> SHEFFIELD



Paging Alf .... Paging Alf...

BugBear


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## Alf (14 Aug 2007)

British Planemakers sez:

Jowett, John. Albion Works, Arundel Lane, Sheffield. 1860-1900. Irons found in planes by Emir.

Would have been quicker but I had to go and get me hair cut. :roll:

Cheers, Alf


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## bugbear (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":i70vzytl said:


> British Planemakers sez:
> 
> Jowett, John. Albion Works, Arundel Lane, Sheffield. 1860-1900. Irons found in planes by Emir.
> 
> ...



Jeez. Some reference books really are fussy about who reads them  

BugBear


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## Alf (14 Aug 2007)

What can I say, my copy has the attitude of a Sergeant Major... :roll: :lol:


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## MikeW (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":2t065rfi said:


> British Planemakers sez: ...


Always the Fount of Wisdom...or at least has the references <g>.


Alf":2t065rfi said:


> ...I had to go and get me hair cut. :roll: Cheers, Alf


Ooh...and we know how much you like *that* :lol: 

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (14 Aug 2007)

Yeah, Mike, bad day to complain about lack of blogging, eh? :lol:


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## MikeW (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":23lzqu0s said:


> Yeah, Mike, bad day to complain about lack of blogging, eh? :lol:





> I'm really looking forward to the next blog entry [g]...Mike


Complaint? Nah. I do very much look forward to the blog postings, though.

So how's the plough book coming :wink: 

Take care, Mike


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## Alf (14 Aug 2007)

MikeW":1f3cv64r said:


> So how's the plough book coming :wink:


Slowly. Just where does one draw the line on including other types of farming implements...? :-k :wink: 

Cheers, Alf

P.S. We have blog entry. Don't rush though - it's hardly worthy of the name.


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## Paul Chapman (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":h8wifuy3 said:


> P.S. We have blog entry.



Off to read it now  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeW (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":3icptohl said:


> MikeW":3icptohl said:
> 
> 
> > So how's the plough book coming?
> ...


Hey, it's your* spelling not mine :lol: Made me laugh.

Seriously. Hmm. Tough question--especially if you are serious! It has to be difficult to limit scope. I do have a listening ear...


Alf":3icptohl said:


> P.S. We have blog entry. Don't rush though - it's hardly worthy of the name.


I'll be patient. Really I will. That or I'm headed back out to the shop and it'll be a while before I pop back to have a look-see...

Take care, Mike

*As in the entire world but us nutcases :lol:
**edited because I do not know how to spel nor click the speler checker button...


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## Alf (14 Aug 2007)

Hell's teeth, Mike, I'm not serious! Cripes, I'd have to at least blog about being a guru before I contemplated writing a book (and if I ever do the former in cold blood then you have my permisssion to shoot...) :wink: :lol:

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":vgxrf33q said:


> Cripes, I'd have to at least blog about being a guru before I contemplated writing a book :wink: :lol:



Don't think I'd want to be a guru if you have to wear an outfit like that.... :shock: :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeW (14 Aug 2007)

Now that was funny...and I agree with Paul. And besides, you being a woman 'n' all, think of the cr*p you would "have" to wear in that period. That is unless you were stoned for wearing something "sensible." :lol: 

...afaik, I've only shot bear, deer, moose, grouse, pheasant, a shark, and there has to be a something else or two. But rest assured. Never once a period woodooworker :wink: 

But seriously now :lol: I think an expanded (in the plow sections), better illustrated and updated Planecraft type book would dovetail in really well with C&W's upcoming DVDs.

Heck, you could even use the soon to be released LV plow...

Take care, Mike
now off to the blog before the coffee is done dripping...


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## motownmartin (14 Aug 2007)

Alf":1vbrjs35 said:


> British Planemakers sez:
> 
> Jowett, John. Albion Works, Arundel Lane, Sheffield. 1860-1900. Irons found in planes by Emir.
> 
> ...



Alf

Thanks for the info, I have sent an email to EMIR to see if they could give me any more info, this is important to me as it has a sentimental value.

Many Thanks

Martin


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2007)

motownmartin":2z2oxv4z said:


> Thanks for the info, I have sent an email to EMIR to see if they could give me any more info, this is important to me as it has a sentimental value.
> 
> Many Thanks
> 
> Martin



In that case I'd start on the clean up/restoration with gentle techniques.

Not sandpaper. Probably not paint stripper. Nothing involving (grain raising) water.

BugBear


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## lurker (15 Aug 2007)

Martin's picture set me wondering.............

I've got quite a pile of woodies some now fettled and some in storage.
I've realised that nearly every single one has (or had) paint splashes on it, like Martin's. :-k 

Planes seem to be an inefficient dust sheet substitute to me. :lol: :lol: 

I recently did up a rebate plane that had obviously been used as a paint can stand, judging by the rings in it. :shock:


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## engineer one (15 Aug 2007)

you certainly get the impression that after metal planes became cheaper,
the wooden planes were kind of left around in the workshops, and then because they were not in use, became just shaped blocks of wood.

i think when they went into grandad's /dad's butty bag they were always going to be used, but somehow the perceived problems of sharpening and adjusting meant they got pushed to one side..

they really were as cheap as chips, and i think just got forgotten
it's only because of us idiots that now they are coming back into use, because it is a great tool to learn things with.

paul :wink:


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## Alf (15 Aug 2007)

Wooden jacks, like Martin's, were still regularly recommended as the jack plane of choice by Charles Hayward well into the 60s iirc. Took a while for the penny to drop on my part, but it's now mine for genuine jack plane tasks too. For more sensitive tasks like smoothing and such, the metal equivalents were embraced fairly readily, but you just can't beat the ease of a wooden plane for wasting away a lot of wood without wasting away the woodworker. :lol: The question of paint and why it's always there and what factors decree the colour has cropped up a few times on the Old Tools List - no definitive answer yet, as far as I know.

Cheers, Alf


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2007)

Alf":244jvjua said:


> The question of paint and why it's always there and what factors decree the colour has cropped up a few times on the Old Tools List - no definitive answer yet, as far as I know.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



The paint is always Light green, unless it's white. It's a law of the universe.

BugBear


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## motownmartin (15 Aug 2007)

bugbear":16y0po5r said:


> motownmartin":16y0po5r said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the info, I have sent an email to EMIR to see if they could give me any more info, this is important to me as it has a sentimental value.
> ...


What are these gentle techniques :?: 

Martin


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## lurker (15 Aug 2007)

In years to come when woodies get rare and in demand, will forgeries/Repros be splashed with paint?

Hijacking this thread still further: in the town where I live there used to be a locomotive works. You could spot the employee's homes because they were painted either maroon or dark green.


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## Denis (15 Aug 2007)

bugbear":76y8lw1r said:


> The paint is always Light green, unless it's white. It's a law of the universe.




Or the predominant colour scheme used in painting workshops?


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2007)

motownmartin":o1rgp7ub said:


> bugbear":o1rgp7ub said:
> 
> 
> > motownmartin":o1rgp7ub said:
> ...



The ones I described in my reply to your post that started this thread :? 

BugBear


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## lurker (15 Aug 2007)

Martin,

I think we have established you need to leave the "patina" alone to prove its genuine. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## motownmartin (15 Aug 2007)

bugbear":87nuo7ox said:


> The ones I described in my reply to your post that started this thread :?
> 
> BugBear



Oh yes, it must be age creeping up on me    

Thanks

Martin


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## motownmartin (15 Aug 2007)

I wrote to Emir and got this reply

Dear Mr Stoker

EMIR planes were hammer stamped at one end EMIR though we also manufactured for other brands such as Toga and during the war with the MOS code 303. Some details of the plane block are not typical of our methods since 1950 (top bevelling, nut slot, un-bared wedge). We may have fitted Jowett irons but our main suppliers were Sorby, Holdick and Mathiesson.

Regards

BILL EMMERICH

Still none the wiser :? 

Maybe it is homemade

Martin


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## bugbear (15 Aug 2007)

motownmartin":t7jx06kw said:


> our main suppliers were Sorby, Holdick and Mathiesson.



That'll be "Hildick" and "Mathieson"

Is there a name on the toe of the plane? Stamped in like this:






(confession; those planes have been cleaned)

BugBear


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## Alf (15 Aug 2007)

Sometimes a visual helps lodge something in the brain - Cleaning a wooden moulding plane :wink:



motownmartin":jh4baphu said:


> I wrote to Emir and got this reply
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Still none the wiser :?


On the other hand I've just been able to add a few more pencilled notes to the entry for Emir in BPMs, so it's not all loss  



bugbear":jh4baphu said:


> motownmartin":jh4baphu said:
> 
> 
> > our main suppliers were Sorby, Holdick and Mathiesson.
> ...


And which Sorby?



bugbear":jh4baphu said:


> (confession; those planes have been cleaned)


Oh the humanity... :shock:

Cheers, Alf


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## motownmartin (15 Aug 2007)

Thanks Alf

Martin


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

since we are promoting and showing how we save woodies, i thought i might show some of mine.

as you can see i have some modern ones, the now defunct dutch brand nooitgedabt, plus at least 5 older ones

the two jacks are branded.

one is stamped roberts, but i have also found a marples imprint on it, as well as the decal. it has a warranted cast sheffield steel blade, which is actually tapered out toward the cutting edge. sadly the detail is not too clear, it carries a chip breaker. it says it is 21/4

the other one is stamped mathiesons and also carries the mark
campbell brand it too has a warranted cast sheffield blade which is tapered out to the cutting edge, and has a chip breaker. unfortunately the wedge is worse for wear and may need a new one making.

the coffin smoothers do not have any manufacturing marks on them that i can see yet, the blades certainly do not carry marks. the larger one has a chip breaker, the smaller one not.

the angled rebate plane is an emir brand 1 1/4 wide


the hand driven grinding wheel machine is one my dad used to sharpen his stone chisels both in the workshop and on site in the cemeteries.
it is as you can see a mole brand, i assume it is the same company that makes mole grips, but cannot find any details so far. sadly the machine is somewhat seized, but sometime soon will try to dismantle it and see whether i can make it work again.

you do wonder why the jacks do not have any front handles??

as you can see the dutch stuff was still a relatively traditional shape.



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now i must find the extra time to fettle and work with them. seems at least one of the jacks could make a decent scrub plane. but does that require a slightly curved base?

paul :wink:


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## Alf (16 Aug 2007)

Ah, the "Mole" grinder - the very model that does the bulk of my grinding, see? Get it working! It's a nice grinder and I believe it _is_ a product of the company more famous for its grips. Buck & Hickman list it in their 1958 catalogue thusly:



> "Mole" Hand bench Grinder.
> Non-ferrous Castings used throughout.
> Gears are totally enclosed.
> High-class workmanship, pleasing design and attractive finish, with lettering picked out in red enamel.
> ...



As for the planes - often makers marks get obliterated by eager hammer use, and then there's the confusion between maker's and owner's marks. F'rinstance, the Marples is definitely a Marples; Roberts will be a previous owner. The trouble comes when you can only read one mark and there's a possibilty it could be either. Someone somewhere really needs to do a basic guide to this stuff so the tyro can at least get a vague start on the right road.

Cheers, Alf


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

alf

you are right about checking whether it is a name of the owner, retailer or maker. very difficult. interestingly the name roberts is on both ends of the plane which i would suggest means it is a retailer mark rather than just an owner (just :? but you know what i mean :roll: )

as for the mole, didn't realise it was so modern :lol: 

will get the plus gas out, and see why it has seized, probably an oil starvation problem combined with stone dust :lol: 

will see if i can clean up the details on the blades and make them clearer.

paul :wink:


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## pam niedermayer (16 Aug 2007)

engineer one":7nycwry6 said:


> ...
> 
> you do wonder why the jacks do not have any front handles??...



Wooden planes, especially the high ones, don't need any special front handles since you can grip the front of the plane quite effectively.

Pam


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

interesting pam, but surely that really depends on how big your hands are :? 

the shape at the front does not to me seem too comfortable, and also you have a situation where your hand may well be across rather than along the plane which is always uncomfortable.

paul :wink:


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## pam niedermayer (16 Aug 2007)

Speaking from personal experience, you don't need huge hands nor is it uncomfortable, feels quite natural and good.

Pam


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

so alf did you ever get an dismantling drawing for the mole???

or even some kind of manual. i have undone all the screws i think :? 

now need to know what else to whack, thump or push :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## Alf (16 Aug 2007)

Paul 'fraid not. Mine worked like a dream. Can't recall if I ever took it apart, but I'll try and remember to have a look. If you don't hear from me by this time tomorrow then best give me a prod. I would hazard a guess that there's a goodly jam of grease mixed with grit holding up the works - unless you've been walking under ladders whilst hitting black cats with mirrors, in which case it might be much worse... But you don't want to listen to me. :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

thanks mate, fortunately no ladders, black cats etc.
however i let the plus gas work a lot longer, and then discovered
that thumping the main drive shaft loosened things up, so i now have it in a couple of pieces.

looks like the biggest problem is the gunge in the uppermost oiling /greasing points. so a little soaking and then we'll check.

looks like the main drive wheel may be sintered metal, although it could have plastic teeth, will check later .

will get back to you with more details and it working i hope??

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

ok so have it all kind of de grunging on the bench. started out with plus gas, which i have found fantastic for loosening the screws and shafts.

also very good for loosening the chip breaker screws :roll: 

anyway later will photo the whole dismantled thing and then put it back together and do a couple of stage photos. sure it will be of some value.

it really is a very simple unit in terms of its parts and the whole design.
not sure what would be the widest wheel it will take. wonder whether it would take one of the irish wheels??? the red one.

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

alf another thought, what do you lubricate with, oil or grease??

paul :wink:


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## DaveL (16 Aug 2007)

Paul,

Does it have oil seals? If you put oil in and there are no seals it will come out quite quickly. :x 
How about using the trick Royal Enfield used in their gear boxes? :-k


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

as an ariel red hunter man dave don't know squat about enfields :lol: 

actually the reason i asked was that i was thinking about using one of the dry greases not available.

the top shaft has 3 oil holes and sliding clip nipple covers and i assume a built in seal. in big red letters the body of the machine says oil regularly :? 

as for the main shaft am looking carefully at that. since it is low speed, i reckon the modern greases may be the way to go. :roll: 

paul :wink:


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## DaveL (16 Aug 2007)

AH well I am (was) a BSA Gold Flash man, but I have ridden and spannered lot of old mainly British bikes. 

Enfield used a grease oil mix, the gear box was packed with a measured amount on assembly and then a small amount of oil added, most of it did stay in the box. :shock: 

If it says oil it then give it a try but I would still grease everything as I assembled it.


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## engineer one (16 Aug 2007)

not sure that was just an enfield things burman gearboxes used to use oil, but of course bsa made their own boxes. ah the joy of selly oak products 8) 

i will use the spray on grease, and then see what happens .it should be fun to work out how you hold your tool with one hand whilst you use the other in a winding motion. where have we heard that before :?  

ta mate
paul :wink:


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## engineer one (17 Aug 2007)

having cleaned up the main castings with degreaser, and plus gas, it looks more and more interesting.

it would seem that the bearing surfaces are in fact just the machined casting surfaces with drip holes for the oil, and a kind of pushed in seal.

so it would seem that it was an interesting design based on low speed use, in that the bearing surface is a lightweight alloy casting.

hopefully later today in the daylight, i can produce better photos and show how it works. very interesting idea. the main gear wheel now is definately a kind of alloy casting, not sintered as i first thought, and the spindle that turns the emery wheel itself appears to be a steel shaft which has splines cut into it which interact with the large gear wheel. 

will do the counting and maths later too.

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (17 Aug 2007)

ok as promised a couple or so photos of the mole grinder when dismantled.

as you can see it is very simple. these are the basic outer and workings, then all you have is a bunch of screws and a couple of nuts.

next to re-grease, and re assemble, then see what happens.

oh by the way i do have a grinding wheel too. :lol: 





[/url]
















as alf says, if you find one it is worth looking at and buying, can't see a real problem with spares. except for the screws there aren't any :? :roll: 

paul :wink: 
[/img]


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## engineer one (17 Aug 2007)

ok as agreed i put it back together.

used plus gas to dismantle, then an aerosol de-greaser to clean up the crud. left it for a few hours to air off and dry.

then i put it back together using an aerosol dry grease. went to gether really well and easily. turns without problems.

however i have discovered a problem with wheel i had. the mandrel is not quite right, and the wheel moves around a bit.

must check to see whether there are any other bits lying around.

was very surprised by how fast and for how long, the wheel turns after you wind it. i can see how alf is able to sharpen with it. forgot to count the various teeth, so have no idea of the ratio, but will look again.

so alf. how does your wheel mount, where did you get the mandrel, and is it just held by two washers and a nut on the shaft??

i would guess the company that made the stone, turret of walton on thames is no longer around, must check.

paul :wink:


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## Alf (17 Aug 2007)

Paul,

Yeah, it's just a couple of washers and a nut - technology gone mad! :wink: As long as the shaft is straight and the wheel is round and sound (you checked right? Wouldn't want to hear you'd had a wheel explode in your face) then clamp the thing so the wheel is horizontal, turn it round with the nut not fully tightened and nudge the wheel into a central position. The pressure of the nut on the washers does all the wheel clamping, not the shaft. You'll probably have to still do a little truing of the wheel with a dresser once you've got it as good as you can though.

Cheers, Alf


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## engineer one (17 Aug 2007)

thanks alf, interesting way to go, will try that if i can loosen the nut again :? 

so far i don't think my arm is strong enough to turn it so fast that i burst the wheel.

do you have any specific grits or types of wheel you use?? a brand etc

paul :wink:


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## bugbear (20 Aug 2007)

motownmartin":1vzvnkyp said:


> I found this old Plane in my Mums garage, it obviously used to be my Dads, he may have even made it himself.
> 
> I would like to get it looking decent, so the question is what are the do's and dont's.



See also...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=18696

BugBear (bump)


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