# new or second hand



## essexcowboy (19 Dec 2014)

got my reverse pegus blades today cant believe how thin they are, had to get them in and make some sawdust.........put in the pinless blade converter thingy and they will not hold the damn blades no matter how i try. I KNOW I NEED TO INVEST IN A BETTER SCROLLSAW (once christmas is out of the way) not impressed with the excalibur reviews so which one...can go to around £300 any views whether i should get new or second hand for my money


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## scrimper (19 Dec 2014)

You will get a better saw for your money if you buy a decent second-hand one rather than buying new.


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## finneyb (19 Dec 2014)

Try sanding the sides of the blade where they go into the clamps

HTH

Brian


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## nadnerb (19 Dec 2014)

I would go for a good second hand hegner, in my view the money you will save would be better spent investing in a quick clamp and a foot switch
Regards
Brendan


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## ardenwoodcraft (19 Dec 2014)

I speak from my experience as the owner of an Excalibur EX21.

I can say that in my ownership, my EX21 has done everything I have asked of it and easily cuts from thick oak to thin ply with no trouble at all. I find the lift up top arm makes blade changing and fret work very easy, and the tilting blade arms mean the table stays level when doing angle cutting. The build quality on my EX21 gives me confidence that I will still be using it for many years to come.

I know some of the reviews have been less than favourable but I believe they may have been for the 30" EX30 models that had a spate of linkage problems. I believe these problems have been resolved but unfortunately the stigma remains.

I have never owned a Hegner but would like to try one if the opportunity arose, but the blade clamps do seem to be a lot more fiddly to use than the Excalibur ones.

Used Excaliburs only rarely come on to the second hand market whereas used Hegners are regularly found on internet auction sites.


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## scrimper (19 Dec 2014)

ardenwoodcraft":11kim5lw said:


> I have never owned a Hegner but would like to try one if the opportunity arose, but the blade clamps do seem to be a lot more fiddly to use than the Excalibur ones.



I have never had the opportunity to try an Excalibur saw but TBH I have never found changing blades any trouble at all with the Hegner and with the quick clamp it takes about 2 secs and you can do it with your eyes closed it's that easy. Now with my Diamond saw changing or refitting blades is more fiddly but it's more to do with the tensioning not having quick action.


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## gilljc (20 Dec 2014)

Think the reason that there are plenty of hegners second hand is that they were used in schools, and they get replaced regularly as a matter of form. My second hand hegner is pretty old, and works beautifully.
I had originally bought one from axminster that was advertised as taking both types of blades, but even after replacement clamps being sent, they would not grip the pinless blades. it eventually was sent back, and I got my variable speed hegner on ebay for less money and have never looked back

PS - just about to head off to pick up my 'new' (secondhand) hegner, this time a multicut SE, time will tell whether it is better than my older one. it has a bigger throat, and quick tension thingy. hope the old one isn't too upset at being replaced


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## Chippygeoff (20 Dec 2014)

Ardenwoodcraft. Two years ago I bought an excalibur 21. The clamps were a nightmare for blade changing, it is far quicker on my Hegner. The table on the excalibur is to thin and marks very easily, the dust extraction is a complete abortion. I sent mine back after 3 months. They were that bad most people were returning them to Axminster who were then flogging them off cheap on e-bay. The Hegner is by far a much superior saw and the best money can buy but even so I would like to see Hegner produce a saw with a larger table and a higher speed range. I feel you are very fortunate to have one that has not let you down yet and I hope it stays that way. I don't know if the excaliburs have been improved since I bought mine but I feel Axminster must have had words with the Taiwan manufacturer.

Gill. You will not be disappointed and I would love to hear your appraisal after you have made a few cuts. Bet you can't wait to get it set up and make some sawdust.


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## ChrisR (20 Dec 2014)

essexcowboy":dghzw33e said:


> got my reverse pegus blades today cant believe how thin they are, had to get them in and make some sawdust.........put in the pinless blade converter thingy and they will not hold the damn blades no matter how i try. I KNOW I NEED TO INVEST IN A BETTER SCROLLSAW (once christmas is out of the way) not impressed with the excalibur reviews so which one...can go to around £300 any views whether i should get new or second hand
> for my money




Re your blades not holding in the clamps, have you tried putting a small piece of fine wet/dry abrasive paper in the clamp alongside the blade. 
Bit of a faff I agree, but it may see you through until you can replace the saw.

All the best for Christmas. :ho2 

Chris R.


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## essexcowboy (20 Dec 2014)

as always plenty of good advice and tips.THANKYOU. think its going to be a hegner. with reference to the blades my fault for buying a cheap blade converter. very bad machining. another lesson learned. not going to bother getting anymore until i get another saw


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## scrimper (20 Dec 2014)

essexcowboy":6s8qh0uj said:


> as always plenty of good advice and tips.THANKYOU. think its going to be a hegner. with reference to the blades my fault for buying a cheap blade converter. very bad machining. another lesson learned. not going to bother getting anymore until i get another saw



My advice if you are looking for a second hand Hegner is to try to get one with the quick release tensioning lever (picture below) as it is not really feasible to add one later. This lever will make an enormous difference if you do internal cut outs on your work. 
Also try to get a variable speed model, much better when doing intricate delicate work, again you cannot add it to a Hegner later. The quick clamp is also essential but you can add one of those later if the saw you choose does not have one.

So in summary the features I recommend looking for are

1) Quick tension lever
2) Variable speed
3) Quick blade clamp

(My opinions, others will have a different viewpoint)


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## essexcowboy (20 Dec 2014)

scrimper":ogwgs6jt said:


> essexcowboy":ogwgs6jt said:
> 
> 
> > as always plenty of good advice and tips.THANKYOU. think its going to be a hegner. with reference to the blades my fault for buying a cheap blade converter. very bad machining. another lesson learned. not going to bother getting anymore until i get another saw
> ...


 thats great thankyou, just been looking at the hegner website...might have to up my budget


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## essexcowboy (20 Dec 2014)

think i will have to take the wife out for a romantic evening....let the grovelling begin


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## scrimper (20 Dec 2014)

essexcowboy":37cjexwt said:


> think i will have to take the wife out for a romantic evening....let the grovelling begin



Just tell of all the wonderful items you will be able to make for her if you get a saw.


Beware Hegner prices are over the top! Have you considered the Axminster AWFS18 which is a dead copy of the Hegner? I have not tried one but a few on here have, maybe worth asking how they get on with them?
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-tr ... scroll-saw


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## Cordy (20 Dec 2014)

Hi, which Hegner model is the AWFS18 a clone of ?
The Ax Nett Weight 29kg - Power 120W 230V
Table Size 460 x 235mm

Hegner Multicut 2S Weight 21Kg

Confusing...


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## ardenwoodcraft (20 Dec 2014)

Chippygeoff":3mlir5ba said:


> Ardenwoodcraft. Two years ago I bought an excalibur 21. The clamps were a nightmare for blade changing, it is far quicker on my Hegner. The table on the excalibur is to thin and marks very easily, the dust extraction is a complete abortion. I sent mine back after 3 months. They were that bad most people were returning them to Axminster who were then flogging them off cheap on e-bay. The Hegner is by far a much superior saw and the best money can buy but even so I would like to see Hegner produce a saw with a larger table and a higher speed range. I feel you are very fortunate to have one that has not let you down yet and I hope it stays that way. I don't know if the excaliburs have been improved since I bought mine but I feel Axminster must have had words with the Taiwan manufacturer.
> 
> Gill. You will not be disappointed and I would love to hear your appraisal after you have made a few cuts. Bet you can't wait to get it set up and make some sawdust.



Hello Chippygeoff,
I Speak only as I find with my EX21. They are trade rated saws and as with any industrial machinery they do need setting up / commissioning before first use. The same with my Axminster industrial bandsaw.
As I said, they had a number of saws with linkage problems but I believe that issue was rapidly sorted out, and yes, I do know they were selling them on Ebay as customer returns. Mine came direct from Axminster brand new.
I agree the tables do mark and look unsightly due to the coating on them and the extraction port is useless, I removed it on mine and just vacuum up after I've finished. I have not yet found the blade clamps to be troublesome but again, there is a level of adjustment available to suit the users preference.
So far I have no complaints about my Excalibur but, as I said, I have not used a Hegner so have only my own experience of my first Axminster AWVFS scrollsaw to compare it against.

By the way, I love your threads on craft fairs, very helpful and informative. Unfortunately I have to work at weekends so hopefully I'll find a local mid-week one to have a go at sometime next year.


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## martinka (20 Dec 2014)

Cordy":3l3gumu2 said:


> Hi, which Hegner model is the AWFS18 a clone of ?
> The Ax Nett Weight 29kg - Power 120W 230V
> Table Size 460 x 235mm
> 
> ...



The difference in weight will be down to the Axminster having a cast iron table; the Hegner 2S has an alloy one.


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