# Oxyturbo kits / lead welding



## baldkev (17 Sep 2022)

Hi guys,
Im going to pick up an oxyturbo kit, but i cant decide which one. Basically theres a kit for 135 quid, the oxyturbo 90, or for 220 quid, the oxyturbo 200.
From what i can gather, the main difference is the more expensive one has guages on the bottles and possibly different sized nozzles, although both appear to come with 4 or 5 nozzles.

Does anyone have experience with them? Is the 200 worth the extra cost?

At the mo, i just want to have a go at lead welding. Ive got a bullfinch torch with a couple of nozzles and propane tank for general torch applications ( wood burning and had a go at brazing aluminium ) but i believe the oxy / map gas is supposed to be best for lead?


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## Adam W. (17 Sep 2022)

I learnt on a saffire oxy/acetylene outfit. It's been a while, nearly 18 years, since I used it, but the flame needs to be controlled extremely well to get a good result. I spent a fair bit on my stuff and didn't regret the outlay as it worked properly, so buy the best you can afford.

I did a weeks course at the building crafts college in London which was invaluable. It was run by the Lead Sheet Association






Rolled Lead Sheet – The Complete Manual


[vc_row full_width="stretch_row" css=".vc_custom_1530635416598{padding-top: 63px !important;padding-bottom: 120px !important;background-image: url(https://le




leadsheet.co.uk


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## baldkev (17 Sep 2022)

Adam W. said:


> I spent a fair bit on my stuff and didn't regret the outlay as it worked properly, so buy the best you can afford.


Yep, good advice. I dont do much leadwork and if i need welding i usually get a roofer i know to do it ( window trays etc ) but I want to learn and not be reliant on others. It'll probably pay for itself after a few jobs


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2022)

Knowing nothing, but having welded, brazed, silver soldered (pure and industrial) soft soldered etc. why would you use something so hot to solder something with such a low melting point?


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## baldkev (18 Sep 2022)

These kits are apparently extremely good for leadwork. A combination of torch / nozzle size and being able to reduce the flame down to a ball of about 3mm. Most roofers use these around here now. Probably easier / cheaper to get than the oxy acetylene roofers used to use?


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## baldkev (18 Sep 2022)

A quick google for propane lead welder ( as i have propane kit )


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## Adam W. (18 Sep 2022)

I tried propane and all I did was burn a hole in it and I couldn't control the flame at all.

You'll probably find that all of the serious, qualified lead welders use oxy/acetylene.


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## Fergie 307 (18 Sep 2022)

I have had one of these for a few years, since I got fed up with BOC and their ridiculous standing charges. Mine has the gauges, and I would recommend that type as it gives you more control. Not sure the make of mine, will have a look later although oxyturbo does sound familiar. Overall a good bit of kit but the bottles don't last that long, especially oxygen. You'll get about 25min, maybe half an hour if you're using a small flame. I use mine for silver soldering mostly. A good trick if you are doing something large is to use a Map torch to get it good and hot, then just use the oxy set to bring it up to full temperature. Not really applicable to lead though.


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## ChaiLatte (18 Sep 2022)

baldkev said:


> A quick google for propane lead welder ( as I have propane kit )



I would not read too much into that. The snippet of an answer you posted is very misleading because it is computer-generated. Your question is about welding LEAD with propane. The answer is about fusion welding STEEL with propane or propylene. I think it an automatically-generated one from a Google search, so reading the original answer in its proper context (Can I weld with a Propane Torch? Discover the Answer!) will give you a more rounded perspective. It does not cover lead at all.

I am not suggesting you can weld lead with propane, merely that what you found above is irrelevant to answering that question. Given that all the pros use acetylene or MAPP gas, I would follow the crowd.


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## John Hall (18 Sep 2022)

The Model O torch (BOC) is the one used for lead work, but then you need flashback arrestors, regulator’s etc, which gets a bit expensive.
The Bullfinch and Sievert propane torches are ok with a fine flame and lots of practice…get some tallow for flux…
The Model O torch gives a very controllable small flame…it’s the one you will find if you go on a lead welding course. Perfect for intricate work..
picture of one below…


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## John Hall (18 Sep 2022)




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## Sideways (18 Sep 2022)

lead welding ?


Hi all, at the moment ive got myself an Oxy Turbo mini welding kit to practice on, but the bottles dont last very long. What do i need to look for to get longer welding time for welding lead. Is their a specific type of welder i need to get and is it just oxy- cyetaline type gas i need. Thanks...



www.mig-welding.co.uk





Useful chat about lead welding here....

Thinking about intense localised heating from a small oxy acetylene set got me wondering about TIG welding lead. Apparently that IS an option in a workshop setting, but not so good for site work.


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## baldkev (18 Sep 2022)

ChaiLatte said:


> The snippet of an answer you posted is very misleading because it is computer-generated. Your question is about welding LEAD with propane. The answer is about fusion welding STEEL with propane or propylene


 i didnt notice that  it was getting late, thanks


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## baldkev (18 Sep 2022)

Sideways said:


> lead welding ?
> 
> 
> Hi all, at the moment ive got myself an Oxy Turbo mini welding kit to practice on, but the bottles dont last very long. What do i need to look for to get longer welding time for welding lead. Is their a specific type of welder i need to get and is it just oxy- cyetaline type gas i need. Thanks...
> ...


Just read that through..... looks like I'd need some spare oxygen bottles


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## Sideways (18 Sep 2022)

I got a rent free argon cylinder for the TIG from an Adams gas stockist. My impression is that oxygen's quite costly so the bigger cylinder you can cope with the cheaper it is to run. To buy into the scheme with one of those 900mm tall cylinders would be under £200 including the first cylinder full. Then add maybe another £50 for a reg and flashback arrestors. If you can get away with propane or MAPP rather than acetylene (and why not, you're not trying to weld steel !) you might save yourself some grief with the insurance. I've heard insurers don't like acetylene


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## Lefley (18 Sep 2022)

In my younger years , at my night job. Oxy/cet worked awesome on most safes!


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## Adam W. (18 Sep 2022)

Sideways said:


> I got a rent free argon cylinder for the TIG from an Adams gas stockist. My impression is that oxygen's quite costly so the bigger cylinder you can cope with the cheaper it is to run. To buy into the scheme with one of those 900mm tall cylinders would be under £200 including the first cylinder full. Then add maybe another £50 for a reg and flashback arrestors. If you can get away with propane or MAPP rather than acetylene (and why not, you're not trying to weld steel !) you might save yourself some grief with the insurance. I've heard insurers don't like acetylene


I think you need to have some experience of welding some lead and making it watertight before suggesting alternatives to the standard oxy/acetylene set up..


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## Spectric (18 Sep 2022)

Phil Pascoe said:


> why would you use something so hot to solder something with such a low melting point?


I can see where you are coming from, but there is something not yet mentioned. Oxyacetylene may have a flame temperature of around 3000° but by using a small nozzle you get less heat so it is controllable. With a lot of lead welding not only don't you need flux but also in some cases you can have an autogenous weld, no filler rod. A lot of old lead waste pipes were joined like this, one end belled out and the other inserted and then the edge just melted together.


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## Doug B (18 Sep 2022)

Hi @baldkev you are definitely better with oxy/acetylene that’s how I was taught 40 years ago & it is the best.
I find it impossible to get acetylene these days so have to use oxy/propane which I use with an old acetylene torc, this is my set up




Those were lead caps for gate posts but the oxy/propane doesn’t give the rib definition that you get with oxy/acetylene, it still gives a good joint buts it’s not the same.





just as an aside when I was taught this it was called lead burning not welding


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## Dave Moore (18 Sep 2022)

Doug B said:


> Hi @baldkev you are definitely better with oxy/acetylene that’s how I was taught 40 years ago & it is the best.
> I find it impossible to get acetylene these days so have to use oxy/propane which I use with an old acetylene torc, this is my set up
> View attachment 143713
> 
> ...


Acetylene is banned on a lot of sites in the UK since some nugget blew up a bottle of acetylene in a quarry. I have silver soldered a lot of copper Oxygen pipework using oxy propane but it takes a little longer.
Regards,
Dave


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## baldkev (18 Sep 2022)

Thanks for everyones input. Im going to get the turboset 200 kit and some spare oxygen. For my current project i have 5 trays to make up in the next few weeks, so I'll get it, have some practice runs and report back. I will probably only use it a couple of times a year, so im not looking to get big bottles etc, but it'll be a useful skill to have. I have previously used the propane, flux and solder to fix a tear in a lead tray to get a customer out of a bind, but ive got no idea how well it'd do over time. Luckily the tray is servicing a door in a well sheltered location, so not likely to get much weather


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## Fergie 307 (19 Sep 2022)

Spectric said:


> I can see where you are coming from, but there is something not yet mentioned. Oxyacetylene may have a flame temperature of around 3000° but by using a small nozzle you get less heat so it is controllable. With a lot of lead welding not only don't you need flux but also in some cases you can have an autogenous weld, no filler rod. A lot of old lead waste pipes were joined like this, one end belled out and the other inserted and then the edge just melted together.


The other thing to bear in mind is that the very hot flame allows you to get the area you are working hot enough very quickly, so the heat doesn't spread so far. This is very important working on something with a very low melting point. If you use something less powerful then by the time your work area is hot enough, then quite an area around it won't be far behind and you risk ending up with a puddle!


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## Spectric (19 Sep 2022)

Fergie 307 said:


> then quite an area around it won't be far behind and you risk ending up with a puddle!


aluminium welding where the oxide forms a skin containing molten ali, the skin breaks and you have a big hole where the weld was supposed to be .


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## John Hall (25 Sep 2022)

The Smiths Little torch is worth a look at if you have a good bank balance…
Mainly used for jewellery making, but great for small lead work..
Be aware that There are loads of counterfeit kits for sale, on both EBay and Amazon.
These look identical, but definitely are not,…the gas fittings do not fit UK regulactors etc..They run on oxygen and propane or acetylene.
Instead of using oxygen bottles, ..oxygen generators / concentrators are available for around £250..
Lots of info on YouTube


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## John Hall (25 Sep 2022)




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## baldkev (25 Sep 2022)

John Hall said:


> The Smiths Little torch is worth a look at if you have a good bank balance…
> Mainly used for jewellery making, but great for small lead work..
> Be aware that There are loads of counterfeit kits for sale, on both EBay and Amazon.
> These look identical, but definitely are not,…the gas fittings do not fit UK regulactors etc..They run on oxygen and propane or acetylene.
> ...


I havent seen those before.... for the amount I'll use it, I'll just buy the bottles i think. If usage increases, I'll think again


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## baldkev (8 Nov 2022)

Well today i finally got round to trying it out  ( ive been very busy )
I needed to make 4 window trays and i currently have a roofer on site, so i thought I'd get on with it and if i ran into trouble ( i did ) i could ask ollie!

I set the kit up, it seems well built and easy to put together. My first couple of attempts were not great, so i got ollie to come and show me whats what. Setting up the flame for my liking turned out to be the most important factor. I knew i needed to clean the edges ( scrape them back a bit to reveal fresh lead ) but even so, on one weld, i somehow forgot  i think i was rushing.

After discovering the best flame for me, things improved and after maybe 10 to 12 times of turning the torch on and setting the flame up, i had that licked.

I used filler rods of differing widths to see what worked well and found 5ish mm was good for what i wanted.

Ollie showed me a technique he uses where he lays up a raised bead of 'weld' and then goes back to the start, heating and spreading it as he goes, so it flattens over a wider area, so it doesnt make his slates kick up.

Ive attached photos, but im not claiming to be good at it. I welded the trays from behind first, then flipped them and ran a bead across the front face. 
The first couple i did werent great visually, but are very well sealed and by yhe time id done the last one, it was looking more convincing ( i hope )


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