# Buying a scrollsaw



## BrianD

Hi there,

I was thinking off ordering a Hegner scrollsaw for general use and more importantly to attract my sWMBO into participating in this woodworking lark. (I am not sure at the exactly what the output products are going to be........besides firewood)

I did read up a review on this versus several others and it had an excellent rating.

Blatantly, is it as good as made out and do we have any folks that have and are prepared to give some recommendations; incl. alternatives. I am prepared to spend up to approx £400 but as an absolute newbie on this topic what spec should state (I understand one needs to be specific when ordering - if I am of course).

Some strong advice and guidance required here! :roll: :shock: 

(Oh yes - I do try not to buy twice where possible if you know what I mean; thus the request)

Thanks in advance.


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## BrianD

OK now I see my budget is wrong :shock: 

I am going to have to save :shock: plenty pennies here.

So I am probably looking at Hegner Multicut SEV.

This is called resetting expectations


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## stevebuk

hi brian
have a word with Gill, she has the hegner and will tell you about it..


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## ike

Brian,

I can't comment on Hegner from experience only that they are reckoned to be among the very best, however, I have on of these (from Hobbies).

I haven't used it a huge amount but it is very heavy and the extra mass plus variable speed makes it run as smooth as a sewing machine. It's a lovely solid, well made bit of kit - worth looking at IMO.


cheers,

ike


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## Gill

I have had the 2S with variable speed for several years and it's my workhorse. If you choose the SEV it should give you many years of reliable service (and an awful lot of fun).

The only other comparable saw available in the UK would be Diamond. However, if an iron table is important to you, I doubt you'd like the Diamond's plywood table. Diamond does provide an alloy table as an optional extra, though; have you seen the Diamond website? The Diamond is a big, powerful machine which has several unique features. I've got a Diamond (or two 8) ) in my workshop and it's a smashing saw, so long as you're not making lots of internal cuts. The Type 7 blade holder is the most user-friendly blade holder that Diamond makes, but it's still not as quick to use as the Hegner's Quick Tension Release lever. The Diamond's powerful motor means it's also rather noisier than the Hegner.

Actually, it doesn't really matter what the table is made of so long as it's flat and can be set accurately square to the blade. If you wished, you could make a false table out of perspex and use that - lot's of scrollers do, especially those who like zero clearance between the blade and the table when cutting fine work. 

If you are thinking of buying a Hegner, can I suggest you buy a quick release clamp as an accessory? It will save you an enormous amount of time when changing blades.

Incidentally, a saw that is very similar to the Hegner 2 and has been attracting favourable comments lately is the Axminster AWFS 18. I don't own one of these but I'm sure there are others who can discuss them from first-hand experience.

I've never used the Delta that Ike's mentioned but they have very good reputations and have been around a lot longer than the Axminster.

Whichever of these saws you choose, I doubt very much that you'd be disappointed.

Gill


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## scroller frank

Hello Brian ,  
Not having used a Hegner saw , i can't coment ! but i do have a variable speed Delta, an i think it is the" bees knees," it is almost 10 yrs old now 
but it is working well, 8) 8) 
Gill will be able to tell you more about Hegner saws, as she does some very good work with hers, and as she says the Axminster awfs 18 looks very ,very simular, and at a reasonable price, 
Whatever you decide on, i hope you have as much fun as i and the others here do----------------Frank--------


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## chrispuzzle

I have an Axminster AWFS18, and I'm very happy with it. It is very heavy - about 30kg - with almost no vibration and it's also extremely quiet. I can use it in the middle of the night without waking my partner sleeping on the same floor of the house. It has a good-sized throat at 18" and it's clearly a no-frills Hegner clone. I have been using it most days the past two months and have had no problems with it but of course I can't speak for its reliability over years. It seems a very solid piece of kit.

The blade change uses a quick release lever and V-clamps just like Hegner's, and I know that someone has bought Hegner's own special quick release clamps and clock keys and found they are compatible, so you can get the benefits of that system if you need to make a lot of quick changes. I mostly cut jigsaw puzzles so I do not need to make a large number of inside cuts and I find the blade clamps as supplied are quite adequate for my work.

As far as I'm concerned it was £200 very well spent. Axminster seems to have identified a gap in the market for a medium price trade-rated scrollsaw and ruthlessly copied the Hegner design to fill it.


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## StevieB

Interesting review Chris - have you used a Hegner and how does the Axminster differ? They look extremely similar as you say, but I cannot believe the Hegner name and a red paint job cost £200 - there must be some difference between them?

I am using a very cheap rexon 16SSA from b and q and have never used anything else - I couldn't afford to upgrade to the hegner so have been keeping an eye out - any other comments on the Axminster gratefully received!

Steve.


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## mudman

I would agree with all that Chris has said above. It is well worth the money.

I would say that the differences between the AWFS18 and the Hegner will be down to quality and attention to detail.

My AWFS18 has a centre insert that doesn't sit flush with the table surface. Something I will have to address as the board your cutting can catch on the resulting edge.

I've also noticed that the two holders attached to the side of the table to hold the clamps whilst putting in a blade aren't quite square either.

Also the fixing holes to use if you want to bolt it down are in silly places.

I haven't seen one, but I wouldn't mind betting that you wouldn't get this with a Hegner. But, you get what you pay for and so far I am very pleased with the machine.


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## chrispuzzle

Steve -

I haven't used a Hegner, no, but the designs are similar right down to the cast-iron jigs for holding the blade clamps at the side of the table.

One factor in the price will be manufacture in Germany vs manufacture in the Far East. That might easily account for a large chunk of the £200, and if Hegner has been complacent about its pricing because of its reputation, that would account for a chunk more. Another may be the finish. The Ax has an 'orange peel' finish and some tiny nicks and dings in the casting of the iron - nothing that affects performance, just a hint of cosmetic roughness around the edges.

Just looking at Hegner's site and the specs for their machines, I think the Ax table tilt may be a bit more rough and ready. The Ax table doesn't have a slit like a Hegner table. The motor on the Ax is 120W against 100W for most Hegners, but it may not be as sophisticated a motor design. The Ax is cast iron where only the top end Hegners are cast iron, but the casting may be a little rougher. And so on. I could not say that Axminster has sourced inferior components but motor prices can vary enormously for only small improvements. 

As I say, I haven't had my saw long enough to report on its reliability or the service quality. At the moment it's doing everything I ask it to with quiet efficiency.

At some stage we have to bring Gill into contact with an AWFS18 so she can slot it into the great scheme of things!

Chris


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## Ham

Hi, I've only just purchased the AWFS18 and have therefore not had time to really get down to using it seriously. It is very well made, very quiet and so close to being a Hegner that one could be forgiven thinking that it is made in the same plant. They are on offer at present, making them under 50% of the equivalent Hegner price, but I'm sure that they aren't 50% of the quality. But of course time will tell! Cheers, David


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## Alf

chrispuzzle":hiqclg2i said:


> At some stage we have to bring Gill into contact with an AWFS18 so she can slot it into the great scheme of things!


I was wondering whether a nice word to Axminster... Subject to Gill being willing to do a review as well, naturally. 

Cheers, Alf


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## Gill

Marvelous idea, Alf. You'll have to tell me how to inveigle my way into their good graces  .

Gill


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## Alf

Your best bet is to speak to Charley I think. I have the contact details from doing the marking gauge group review somewhere, but probably on the other 'puter.

Cheers, Alf


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## StevieB

Thanks, thats all useful stuff! Since I have only ever used my little rexon I am not sure of the difference between machines. If cut quality is due to the blade to a large extent it would seem that the main function of the rest of the saw is to be heavy enough to resist vibration through the table and provide quick blade change abilities. If the rest of the differences between the Hegner and the Axminster are cosmetic only (pitting in the casting and rough spots that can be flattened with a file etc) then the Axminster seems a very good price indeed.

I guess what I am trying to say is - beyond a certain point (say the £150 mark) does the make (and price) of machine mean you will get a better scrolled product? From your comments it would seem not. The Hegner might be nicer to use but the end result is the same quality (which itself is highly dependent on user skill rather than the machine).

Steve.


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## Gill

It all boils down to build quality, Steve. That said, Hegner used to have a patent on their saw design but it expired a couple of years ago. I suspect that's why the Axminster has appeared on the scene at such a reasonable price.

How heavy is your Rexon? I think you'd be quite taken at how heavy a Hegner is in comparison. The greater the mass of a machine, the less prone it will be to vibration. This will make cutting a more pleasant experience (white knuckles from pneumatic drills is one thing, but not from scroll saws) and it will tend to increase the longevity of the machine. Of course, you can always treat some of the cheaper saws as disposable - you could wear out several SIP 16" saws in the lifetime of one Hegner - but there's still the actual cutting experience to take into consideration. If the machine isn't a pleasure to use, it won't be used! If the machine is jumping around while you've got a jeweler's blade fitted to cut a jigsaw puzzle out of a stamp, you're going to find it very frustrating.

Top and bottom of this conversation is that it would be nice to have a venue where scrollers could meet up and compare their saws.

Gill


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## StevieB

Good response Gill, nice summary of the conclusions I am forming. The rexon is indeed light and jumps around the workbench if I am not careful. I bolted it to the bench to avoid this but that is a less than ideal solution also.

I have seen the Axminster in the flesh but not the Hegner, not been able to have a go on one though. What you say about the patent issue is very interesting and may well explain the similarlty of the Axminster machine to the Hegner. time to start saving the pennies I think if this is going to turn into a major hobby!

Steve.


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## Taffy Turner

Another vote for the AWSF18 from me!

I have had mine since Christmas, and am very pleased with it. On Gill's recommendation I ordered the quick release blade clamp from Hegner, and a couple of the normal blade clamps and everything fits fine.

Like Barry, the only slight gripe I had was that the table insert wasn't quite flush, but I just cut a new one out of 3mm ply, which was ever so slightly proud of the table surface. 5 mins work with some 120 grip sandpaper soon fixed that. It has the added benefit that as I cut the groove with a no. 2 blade, it is a very close fit around the blade, so it provides good support for fine work.

I have used mine for some very fine cuts, and also some heavy stuff (1" thick kiln dried English Oak), and it handles everything with no fuss at all.

Regards

Gary


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## mudman

There seems to be a few of us AWSF18ers around now.  

I did make a slight mod to mine last night.
I hadn't been very happy about the vibration I was getting as I had set it up on top of an old cheapy pine chest of drawers. I also noted that when in motion, the blade was showing a definite 'ghost' as it was moving side to side in the cut. I put this down to the excessive vibration.

Anyway, I moved it to a much more solid position and this has cure my vibration problem. However, the ghosting was still present. I wasn't sure if this was a problem but it did appear to be manifesting in a wider saw kerf than was it should have been.

Standing and staring for a while made me realise the problem. It was the arm onto which the holddown is mounted. This starts to ocillate when the blade arm is in motion and resulted in a side to side action that was causing the blade arm to also vibrate. Short work with an allen key and it was off. Looks a bit naked now but the ghosting has gone completely.  

Was also then able to solve another problem of how to hold the dust blower. I used the two bolts removed to hold a small plate under which I trapped the brass adapter for the blower. 

Much nicer all round now but I bet you don't get that problem with the Hegner.


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## Gill

Hold downs are completely unnecessary and just get in the way. Getting rid of yours is a 'good thing', and if it improves the saw's performance then so much the better.

Actually, you do get a small amount of vibration with a Hegner. The same's true of the Diamond. It's just that you don't get very much, and mounting the saws onto a heavy base makes a world of difference no matter what saw you use.

Gill


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## Taffy Turner

Barry,

I bolted my saw to a paving slab that I got from B+Q, and then bolted that to the stand. My saw is almost completely vibration free now.

Interestingly, my blade seems to oscillate a bit off load, but it stops as soon as I start cutting, so I put it down to a harmonic type issue. Varying the speed does make it change amplitude, so harmonic oscillation seems the likely culprit.

Regards

Gary


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## mudman

Gill":1v5iu0ja said:


> Hold downs are completely unnecessary and just get in the way. Getting rid of yours is a 'good thing', and if it improves the saw's performance then so much the better.
> 
> Actually, you do get a small amount of vibration with a Hegner. The same's true of the Diamond. It's just that you don't get very much, and mounting the saws onto a heavy base makes a world of difference no matter what saw you use.
> 
> Gill



I had already removed most of the holddown after reading some advise from Lyn, the only thins I was using it for was to hold the blower tube.

Gary,

I like the idea of the paving slab.
Mine is now on a bench that is a thick piece of kitchen worktop screwed securely to large timbers that are then screwed to the wall. I'm also pretty much vibration free as well now. Much nicer to use.  

I also put it down to an oscillation effect. I think that it is oscillating about the lower arm. This does mean that when you introduce the workpiece that the point moves up to some point between the top and bottom of the workpiece and so the oscillation will reduce. I just didn't like the whole idea of my sawblade moving about due to a great chunk of metal bolted to the side that I didn't need. So off it came and I think that it cuts much more nicely now.


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## Taffy Turner

Barry,

Yes - I removed the complete hold down assembly within about 5 minutes of starting using the saw - it just seemed to be in the way all the time and got on my nerves.

I got the quick release blade clamp and clock key and clock screws from Hegner - they make life a lot less fiddly when changing blades. It may be something that you want to think about too.

Regards

Gary


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## mudman

Taffy Turner":9fm6wdyt said:


> Barry,
> 
> Yes - I removed the complete hold down assembly within about 5 minutes of starting using the saw - it just seemed to be in the way all the time and got on my nerves.
> 
> I got the quick release blade clamp and clock key and clock screws from Hegner - they make life a lot less fiddly when changing blades. It may be something that you want to think about too.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Gary



Yes, I've been looking at those and I think an order will be going in in the next couple of days.


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