# Acceptable 'play' in quill



## MamTor (26 Jan 2021)

Apologies in advance for yet another question about acceptable levels of play or sloppiness in a pillar drill......hopefully I can get some advice here.

My actual question is below* but I'm but providing some background info as well:

I'm overall pleased with my floor standing pillar drill. It's very solid and is so far working really well. I have about 0.05mm run-out at the top of drill bits, so I think that's acceptable.

But I'm concerned about play in the main quill assembly. If I put something like a 10mm rod into the chuck, I can move the end of the rod side-to-side by about 2 to 3mm. When I do this, I can see the entire chuck/spindle and quill is moving in unison, even the depth stop and main collar. And if I look down through the top pulley at the same time as rocking the chuck back and forth, I can see the top of the spindle moving side to side within the splined collar that the pulley mounts to,

So to summarise, I definitely have play in the quill assembly. There's no play in the chuck/arbor nor between the spindle and quill. Unfortunately this drill doesn't have any stop screws to press against the quill, but to be honest those seem like a bodge anyway. I would rather just have a quill that slides through bushings in the housing of a reasonably tight tolerance.

I'm aware that I need to use a centre punch to mark the hole. I've tried drilling holes with and without doing this to compare the results. After punching the hole, the drill bit is fine and doesn't wander at all. Without punching the hole, the drill bit can be a couple of mm off.

*Is it normal for the drill bit (5mm upwards) to wander by about 2mm when there's no pilot hole? I can understand why the pilot hole compensates for any flex in the drill bit, but in my case I am compensating for sloppiness in the quill. Is this acceptable on a £500 drill?


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## Doug B (26 Jan 2021)

I used to have an Axminster pillar drill with problems that sound very similar to yours, I stripped it down & the play was purely down to poor design of the machine, I ended up buying a Meddings second hand that although needing quite a lot of work to refurbish is infinitely more accurate than the Axminster & cost much less than £500.


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## MamTor (26 Jan 2021)

Doug B said:


> I used to have an Axminster pillar drill with problems that sound very similar to yours, I stripped it down & the play was purely down to poor design of the machine, I ended up buying a Meddings second hand that although needing quite a lot of work to refurbish is infinitely more accurate than the Axminster & cost much less than £500.


Thanks - what I can say is that my drill seems to be a 'clone' of the Axminster AT700PD, most likely from the same factory in China. 

I do hope this play is not a feature of the quill/housing used on these particular models. It's the main reason I ditched my cheapo Clarke bench drill as I just want the drill bit to remain central to prevent any sideways load. I'm doing everything else possible to get a solid working area: heavy duty bench vice, step-block clamps etc...hence I cannot tolerate any side to side play anywhere.

I did consider getting something 2nd hand, but I need to get on with some projects now, and travelling to pick up something off eBay is out of the question during the pandemic.


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## Jelly (26 Jan 2021)

3mm is genuinely excessive, I would return that as defective if you bought it as new.

The amount of play which is acceptable is going to come down to the work that you're doing; but even if you're doing nothing particularly accurate 3mm of play would be enough to grossly exacerbate the risk of snapping smaller drill-bits.


If you can't return it, then the design you're talking about has the quill sliding directly within a through-hole in the headstock casting with no bushings, so you might be able to use layers of brass shim-stock (or the poor man's shim-stock, soft-drink/beer cans cut into sheets), to sleeve it enough to reduce the play to within acceptable levels. _it's not a *great* solution, but might be a *good-enough* solution._


A "Proper" repair would probably involve either:

Installing bushings in the headstock with a high-strength adhesive like loctite 603, then boring and honing them in situ to a close tolerance on the quill.
Hardfacing or Hard-Chrome Plating the quill to build up additional material, then turning and grinding to fit the bore of the headstock.
Both of which are significant undertakings needing serious kit, and the latter of which would be grossly uneconomic compared to replacing the whole thing.


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## AES (26 Jan 2021)

Agree 100% with Jelly above, That amount of play is NOT acceptable, so if it's new, back it goes to the supplier (hassle though that may be for you - sorry)!

If not new, either of the above solutions will work fairly well - "good enough" for your average user, but NOT, for example, for someone who wants to make, say, a long-term project like a clock or model steam engine in metal (i.e. a "Model Engineer").

The only thing I'd add to Jelly's comment above is that brass sheet is much better than ali (beer cans) in this job, and is easy to get - try model aero shops or Model Engineer's suppliers). A small sheet of say 6 x 6 (inches) of, say 3 to 5 thou (inches) thick will only cost you a couple of quid.

Look at the sticky at the top of this section for several suppliers.


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## Jelly (26 Jan 2021)

AES said:


> The only thing I'd add to Jelly's comment above is that brass sheet is much better than ali (beer cans) in this job, and is easy to get - try model aero shops or Model Engineer's suppliers). A small sheet of say 6 x 6 (inches) of, say 3 to 5 thou (inches) thick will only cost you a couple of quid.



This is a fair point, brass has much better sliding properties!

I have to admit that I had my tight yorkshireman hat on when I was thinking of beer cans... as if the play is as bad as 3mm then worst case there could be 0.65-1mm [25-40 thou] (depending on quill length) to shim out which is a decent amount of money spent on shim-stock for a solution which may not work, and even if it does, may not work _that_ well.

A compromise of using proper shim-stock on one or two of the inner and outer most layers, and packing the middle with alu cans would be much better than just Alu, if you're unfortunate enough to need to shim the quill by a significant amount and want to save money (or just try before you buy lots more brass).


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## Sandyn (26 Jan 2021)

I had a really cheap drill with lots of play in the quill. It was just poor manufacturing. I removed the quill and cleaned/degreased it thoroughly. I then put spiral wraps of adhesive copper tape round the quill, roughly at 45 degrees. I then used the back of a teaspoon to completely smooth the copper tape then covered it with copper grease before re-assembling. It worked very well. It didn't remove all the play, but helped greatly.


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## AES (26 Jan 2021)

That's an interesting "cheap fix" Sandyn, I wouldn't have thought that one up.

Re accuracy generally, a LOT depends on what the user want's to do with a pillar drill.


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## Jelly (26 Jan 2021)

Sandyn said:


> I then put spiral wraps of adhesive copper tape round the quill, roughly at 45 degrees.



That's a nifty trick I would not have thought of.

How well did the adhesive on the tape hold up over time?


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## Sandyn (26 Jan 2021)

I don't know long term, because a few months after doing the modification, I got my Meddings. If you de-grease the quill well so the adhesive sticks and make sure there are no edges of the tape to get snagged as it moves, don't overlap the tape, you can leave gaps, it should last a reasonable amount of time. It took a bit of trial and error for me, because the play wasn't even all the way round.


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## Sandyn (26 Jan 2021)

AES said:


> Re accuracy generally, a LOT depends on what the user want's to do with a pillar drill.


The drill I had was really dreadful. mm's of play at the bottom of quill travel, but it was really cheap. I just got it to do me until I could get something better, but I didn't know what.
It was fine if there was no depth to the material, but then I started making some toys, drilling axle holes through about 75mm of wood. I would drill in the centre on one side and it would be out by a few mm on the other  In a way, it was a good lesson, because it made me do all the research on various new drills, but kept reading, that getting an old British make was the way to go. I was really really lucky to get one locally for a great price, just over twice the price of the one I had.


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## MamTor (26 Jan 2021)

Thanks for all the replies and useful tips.

I also worry the manufacturer has packed 'sticky grease' to obscure the poor machining tolerance. Interestingly, there isn't more play with the quill extended.

The drill is brand new, I've only had it a week. Both the retailer and the brand's customer service team sent me an email today asking me to call them, so it seems they want to help. I've kept the box in case it needs to be returned (90kg packed!).

Overall I just want to make sure I'm not expecting too much for the amount I paid (£500). I could have spent more but this item is near the top end of the 'enthusiast' range, and there's a big jump in price to the 'trade/professional' category of pillar drill. I'm not going to be using it much, so was hoping the cheaper range would be accurate enough, and last many years.


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## Jelly (26 Jan 2021)

MamTor said:


> Overall I just want to make sure I'm not expecting too much for the amount I paid (£500). I could have spent more but this item is near the top end of the 'enthusiast' range, and there's a big jump in price to the 'trade/professional' category of pillar drill.


 
My expectations around a "prosumer" drill would be less than 0.3 mm play with the quill fully extended, and substantially less with it fully retracted.

For a brand new "professional" quality drill, I'd expect quill play to be more conveniently expressed in single digit thousands of an inch (or double digit microns) at full extension, and less than 2 thou fully retracted...

That's probably as much a reflection of my own needs and experiences, as what's available on the market right now, and could be well out of line with what's reasonable to expect from sellers these days.


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## Lard (27 Jan 2021)

I bought my first, cheap, bench top mounted pillar drill years ago just because I thought I should have one. Didn’t give it much use for years until I built/set up my workshop which then gave me the space to try larger projects. Very quickly realised that the play in the quill made it unusable for anything requiring accuracy. I put up with it for a while but frustration led me to find a video on YouTube (linked below) that gave me the eureka moment and I did the modification using a yellow plastic number plate bolt......worked an absolute treat and completely cured the issue. Have used it constantly with no probs for years now.

here’s the vid.....


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## Fergie 307 (27 Jan 2021)

Have to agree that degree of play in a new machine is pretty dreadful. I have used a version of the plastic screw idea. Slightly more involved in that I used two Delrin rods, one at top and bottom and with grub screws so you could adjust the pressure against the shaft. I probably over thought it, but is does work a treat.


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## MamTor (17 Feb 2021)

Just a quick reply to say the manufacturer and supplier arranged for the drill to be returned and they promptly issued me with a full refund. Luckily I'd kept all the packaging, but obviously it wasted a lot of time and effort getting it all back in the box and helping the courier put it in the truck. The manufacturer checked other stock in their warehouse and admitted they were able to repeat the same issues. So I can't complain about their honesty, and just consider it all a lesson learnt.


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## AES (17 Feb 2021)

First off MamTor, thanks for telling us. 2nd, that sounds like a pretty good outcome (NOT ideal of course, an acceptable tool would be the ideal, obviously) but at least you got all your money back, admittedly after some hassle.

But as we read on here now and then, not everyone has as much "luck" with returning stuff.

Care to "name names" perhaps? (Could help others).

And having got your 500 quid back, what are you going to do about a pillar drill now.


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## MamTor (17 Feb 2021)

AES said:


> First off MamTor, thanks for telling us. 2nd, that sounds like a pretty good outcome (NOT ideal of course, an acceptable tool would be the ideal, obviously) but at least you got all your money back, admittedly after some hassle.
> 
> But as we read on here now and then, not everyone has as much "luck" with returning stuff.
> 
> ...



I'm still wary of naming names in case it shines a negative light on them, when they actually provided good customer service. What I will say is that the same drill can be found with other brand names stuck on it, so clearly they're all made in the same factory in China. My guess is that some of these drills will have more play in the quill than others, so it's pot luck. Some do have stop screws to prevent movement in the quill, which mine didn't, so perhaps that is one feature people should look for. 

I did also return the drill as I wasn't happy with vibration from the pulleys, and also because the motor was different to the brochure/website photos and as someone at the factory forgot to stick the name plate onto it, no-one was able to confirm if it was the correct model/rating which is rather poor in my opinion.

On a positive note, I have since replaced it, but decided to may a lot more. I again ruled out taking the risk of finding a good condition 2nd hand British drill, especially as most seem to be 3 phase. So went for the bench-top model in Axminster's Engineers range. And what a difference it's made. No play at all on the quill, even at full extension. It's quieter with much less vibration. I can leave tools on the table without any ratting. I can even leave my safety specs on the pulley cover. Every single part is better designed and manufactured, more solid, better finished, and easier/more comfortable to use. It's been worth every penny so far. Run-out is 0.04mm on a metal rod inserted into the chuck. The whole item is manufactured in Taiwan.

It's not without fault, some of which are a bit embarrassing for Axminster, but they don't affect the performance and are being dealt with by replacement parts.

Overall I'm not suggesting this is the best solution for everyone as the cost is obviously outside some people's 'sensible' price ranges. I'm sure it's possible to spend 10 times less and get something decent that does the job. But I also wanted something that'll last a lifetime and can be passed down to my kids.


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