# Planning your woodwork



## RogerS

I'm about to build a couple of standalone storgae units/benches for the utility room. I started thinking that I should maybe be a bit more 'professional' this time and actually make some proper plans rather than have a concept and a few sketches.

So I then started looking at the various drawing packages out there (Mac and PC) and groaned when I realised yet another vertical learning curve to go through.

So then I thought maybe there were some plans out there and so typed in 'woodworking plans into google' and groaned even more when I saw sites offering 25,000 plus plans  

So now i'm coming back to concept and sketch again.

But I did wonder what approach the rest of you adopted as I couldn't find an existing thread?

Roger


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## Mcluma

Work from sketches and non filled-in ideas


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## Chris Knight

Roger,

Existing plans almost always fall down in some respect when trying to adapt them to your particular situation and I think with rare exceptions, it is not worth the trouble but instead, rather make your own - using a drawing package if this helps.

Of far greater use than someone else's plans is a good sourcebook of ideas that can easily be adapted to your needs. I am thinking for instance of Rodale's "Illustrated Cabinetmaking" by Bill Hylton which is excellent for this purpose - especially when coupled with a book on design like Graham Blackburn's" Furniture by design.

This approach will free you from the straitjacket of a design that doesn't "do" what you want.


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## Scott

Roger

I have AutoCad but I'm hopeless with it! It just takes too long to learn to a level that you can use it quickly (and without the book!).

I'm back to sketches on paper and sometimes scale drawings of certain complex joints or bits where I think I might make a mistake.

Scott


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## frank

a fag packet but i packed up smoking so it a drawing book with little squares on 8) 8) :lol:


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## GCR

rsinden 

I use a sketch book and jot down ideas. Some of my ideas take a long time to mature - my dining room table took 15 years!! Then it used to be out with the drawing board, but some time ago I was forced to come to terms with CAD. If you like computing and have the time to learn, CAD is great. You don't have to produce top-notch engineering drawings, but you can produce working drawings which are easily modified and stored. In the end though, a drawing which takes longer to produce than the finished article is just overkill. 

Bob


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## Adam

rsinden":3neh347g said:


> But I did wonder what approach the rest of you adopted as I couldn't find an existing thread?
> Roger



I take the opposite view tham many people here and avoid any plan at all costs. I like the freedom of changing things on-the-go. E.g. "Ooh, If I make this half and inch smaller, I'll just miss that knot etc..."

Also, I enjoy finding and solving problems as I go along. I *think* for me, the time saved from not pre-designing it allows me to spend longer in the workshop as it is easy to find and fix problems when they suddenly are staring you in the face. Sometimes this does cause problems where you wish you'd thought more about how you'd get widget A in after you've glued widget B in place. Even then, I still prefer to do things without a plan if possible.

I'll sometimes set myself a maximum dimension, but where possible, just start and see what happens. This is clearly not an option for professional people etc As they have to maximum work throughflow, machine time and setup, etc.

The above obly applies when I'm making a project. If I'm making a jig/other practical item which isn't really a "fun" item then a plan is the way to go as its much faster - and then you can get on with fun things!!!

Adam


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## UKTony

Roger,

SWMBO dictates just about anything that gets built in or out of the house, with the exception of the lathe, she has now taken to grabbing one of the youngsters "Etcha - Sketch" things, btw they are now A3 in size and have a pen and built in printer, drawing what she wants and saying can you make one of these :?


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## Aragorn

I always make some kind of plan. I use CorelDRAW for everything, but I've been using it to quite an advanced level for nearly 10 years, so, for me, it's quick and easy.
I do adapt plans as I go, like Adam, but I'll usually modify the drawing too.
I find that some types of project require very detailed and careful plans, for example to fit in exactly with something else, or because of a particular fixing, alignment etc. whilst others can be much more free flowing.


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## Anonymous

Initially, I sketch/plan things out on paper to get a rough idea of the shape and sizes. 

I have been an engineer fo 20+ years and so have become quite adept at sketching ideas. 

If my wife is involved in the process, I usually end up having to colour the sketches in using either watercolour paints or water soluable pencils as her 3D visualisation and spacial awarensss is not too good :? 

I always CAD up my sketches in a 3D package which allows me to check for fits etc. as well as providing an accurate 3D representation that a I can render and rotate to ensure that I am happy with the design.

Generally it takes an evening in front of the TV to CAD up a chest of drawers or something and the resultant drawings save me hours and hours of extra work in the garage (time I can't afford to waste).

In your position, I would simply draw it out on squared paper the best you can and work from that - but I would draw it out with ALL dimensions before you start cutting

Only thing I have never bothered with is a cutting list


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## RogerS

Tony

What package do you use for your sketches/plans?

Cheers

Roger


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## Anonymous

Sketching is on paper, CAD drawings are in Solid Edge but any CAD package would help


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## Alf

Planning, Alf-style:






 

The only things I've done proper drawings for I've never actually _made_, so I've stopped doing that in the hopes the project rate will increase. :roll:

Cheers, Alf


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## Mcluma

The only time that i used a proper programme, was when i made two staircases, one normal one, and one with a turn-in it.

But I will be honest, I didn't want to buy it (Gbp 1100) so I used the 2 week free demo version.

And yes it provided proper drawings to work from, and the stairs came exactly out like I expected them.

So if it gets complicated, use a programm, if it is straight forward, use a sketch book :wink:


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## Chris Knight

Roger,

At the risk of sounding like a spoilsport, I would strongly recommend that you don't bother with CAD. I do use a 3D package from time to time and like Tony says, it's useful for checking fits/interferences etc.

The big HOWEVER in my mind is that it is not at all like riding a bike. You do forget - at least I do - and coming back to it after a while of not using it I find it can take hours to do something that should take minutes. The initial learning curve on the sort of parametric package (Solidworks) that I use is very steep and long too, especially when you get away from simple straight lines.

Add this to the fact that as I get more experienced, I am far happier than I was to work more like Alf and Adam from a little sketch. I have enough of a repertoire of joinery and techniques in my head now, that I don't need the assistance of the CAD system. I am far more likely to use it to calculate a few dimensions or to illustrate a concept for LOML than I am to use it in earnest.

I honestly think I might have got to my present state of knowledge faster if I had spent more time thinking projects through from a design standpoint rather than trying to get a computer to do my work for me.


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## Les Mahon

The only advice I would offer is don't do your sketches on the handy piece of plasterboard while building the house - There is a great sketch of the Bathroom vanity unit somewhere behind my living room wall!

Even though I can use CAD, like others here I find it too slow cause I don't use it day in day out, so I sketch, and sometimes draw complicated bits on the drawing board.


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## Argee

Like Adam, I rarely use a plan. I know what the overall dimensions are and I like to do the calculations "live" in front of the timber, I find it more enjoyable. The thing I think about most before committing to a cut is "what else needs to be this width/length?" 

The only time I resort to a plan (or, rather, a drawing), is when working out what I can get from sheet stock in order to prevent over/under ordering and to get all the raw materials all in one go.

Ray.


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## tim

I think Chris is right re CAD. I've just started using Sketchup - which is pretty basic compared with some. I think it will suit me fine for three reasons. It does allow me to check for fit etc which is important because I do a lot of built in work (often a long way away). Secondly, it has already proved useful in bringing ideas to life to customers. Third is that the type of furniture I like is based on clean lines - if it involved all manner of twiddlery and curves I think it would be very difficult to improve on a pencil and paper (for me)

That said, I always start with a sketch and the smartest thing I ever did was paint a 4 ft x 3 ft blackboard on my workshop wall which I use to sketch ideas on the fly (anyone know where I can get coloured chalk from by the way). -plus a really good reminder list for bits and bobs that need replacing.

I do do cutlists - so that when a socking great delivery of timber arrives I can make sense of it and I also swear by Cultlist Plus for working out sheet cutting. You can do this by hand but for 18 sheets or so for a kitchen - it pays for itself in one go - esp if you find you've missed out a part or got a large dimension wrong!!

Hope this helps

T


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## Alf

Les Mahon":27g4cmw3 said:


> The only advice I would offer is don't do your sketches on the handy piece of plasterboard while building the house - There is a great sketch of the Bathroom vanity unit somewhere behind my living room wall!


<chuckle> :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## trevtheturner

I'm sure when I visited Tim's workshop (and an excellent one it is, too) his blackboard contained a list of the contents of his wine cellar!

As far as prepping is concerned, I'm still in the dark ages. After I have rough sketched an idea it's out with the drawing board for scale plans and 'exploded' diagrams if necessary. Then it's on to producing a working rod, on white-faced hardboard, for use in the workshop. I enjoy doing all this and it helps to avoid annoying/expensive mistakes - which no doubt I would otherwise make. But then I am just a hobbyist with no time pressure and this probably wouldn't be practical for those with deadlines, etc.

Cheers,

Trev.


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## chiba

Sketchup is a wonderful bit of software - the learning curve's relatively unintimidating and it's not the straight-jacket that most drawing programs are.

On the other hand, a nice pad of plain paper and a pencil is what I use for sketching. Somewhat geekily I like wooden pencils, because sharpening them with a knife is the kind of mindless activity that gives the inspiration particles most chance of hitting my tiny wee brain (with all due respect to Terry Pratchett).


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## Sgian Dubh

Roger, proper planning of projects through sketching and working drawings is your statement of intent-- the route you intend to follow. Diversions that have to be made are made due to unforseen circumstances.

As in route planning, if you don't know where you're journey begins-A, and you have no clear idea of where you're going to- B, how do you know which roads to follow to get from A to B? Slainte.


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## Martin

For me it depends on what I'm building, for what purpose etc. If it's a peice that's relatively straightforward and built for purpose (e.g. workshop cabinet) then I just play it by ear and see what I end up with.

However, for "proper work" (that'll end up in the house, given away as presents etc.) I do like to plan abit beforehand. This is more to do with assessing the design and asthetics, but it also helps in understanding where the gotchas will be when I build it.

I use a CAD package (TurboCAD) in order to visualise it in 3D. However, as others have said, the learning curve is rather steep, and I do lose abit of time "learning up" again every time I go back to it.

I do find it invaluable for turning work though - I'm abit of a novice turner, and don't have enough experience of turning to be able visualise what a peice will look like, what's going to be good proportion and not. I therefore tend to render them in CAD first which helps (and also gives me a 2d profile to work to).

The profile is drawn in 2D, and then revolved into a 3D object in TurboCAD which can then be rendered. For example...


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## Anonymous

I would definitely suppoort TurboCAD as a good, cheap, CAD package. I have used professional packages costing many tens of thousands for years and find that I can do 80% or more of the same things in TurboCAD for a few tens of pounds!


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## ijam

tim":xcfbk5fz said:


> (anyone know where I can get coloured chalk from by the way)


Toyshops, especially those for young kids - maybe like these:
http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Product.aspx/T ... ref=Search

ciao

Ian


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## tim

Aaah - space chalk - of course :shock: :shock: 

Thanks Ian - I shall try to overcome my fear and enter a Toys R us at some point soon.


Tony - unless I'm much mistaken Turbocad is a little bit more than tens of pounds £490 odd at the Turbocad site - which is a lot more than Sketchup. I know Autocad etc are thousands but its still a fair amount of cash.


T


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## Anonymous

I'm firmly in the 'Plans? What plans?' camp other than for home renovations, although I have been known to draw a concept sketch from time to time. Actually, most of my sketches were done after the build so I have a record of what I built! In reality most of the things I build are small and other than a few tricky joints quite simple ( a box is a box isn't it?) so much of what I do is in my head and I fit the design to the material at hand. For example, if the nice offcut is only 15cm long and I was planning a 17 cm box, I make a 15 cm box instead. I can always make a 17cm box another time...

For serious home renovations I use Autosketch. I have version 2 and version 8. Version 8 is complex and has lots of bells and whistles. Version 2 comes on floppy disks and is really easy to use. You can guess which one I use.


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## DaveL

tim":20fouwx5 said:


> Tony - unless I'm much mistaken Turbocad is a little bit more than tens of pounds £490 odd at the Turbocad site - which is a lot more than Sketchup.



Tim,

I have just bought Turbocad v9 from Serif Select for ~£20.  
One off the current release, I have loaded it but not drawn any thing yet. Need to look for the safety line and chalk dust. :wink:


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## Martin

Tim, 

You were also looking at the professional version, which you wouldn't need. Much of the functionality (including 3D modelling) is included in the standard/deluxe version, which can be picked up for about £60 in the shops. I actually looked at Sketchup previously and thought it was rather expensive for what it was (but I must confess I haven't used it).

Martin.


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## Martin

...but having said, I've just had a peek at the Sketch-up web site again and it does look impressive.....However, I'd be hard pushed to justify £300 or so...

Martin.


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## Anonymous

tim":a5axeoua said:


> Aaah - space chalk - of course :shock: :shock:
> 
> Thanks Ian - I shall try to overcome my fear and enter a Toys R us at some point soon.
> 
> 
> Tony - unless I'm much mistaken Turbocad is a little bit more than tens of pounds £490 odd at the Turbocad site - which is a lot more than Sketchup. I know Autocad etc are thousands but its still a fair amount of cash.




Last copy I purchased was about £60 a couple of years ago and was mightily impressed 

I have never used Sketchup but know people who find it too limiting for woodwork - and it costs several times the cost of TurboCAD

Just saw that Dave got it for £20 from Serif - I buy a lot of softweare from Serif and highly recommend thier Desktop publishing package 9v10)


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## RogerS

DaveL - I'm thinking of joining SerifSelect and I notice that if I am referred by a 'friend' then said friend (ie you :wink: ) gets a free gift. Your post alerted me to this company so......Just need your membership number if you want would like to do this.

or you can PM me.

Cheers

Roger


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## beech1948

Tony,

TurboCAD pro or Delux are indeed £450+. Hoever, a quick look on Amazon.co.uk for turboCAD threw up TurboCAD Standard at £55.69. Any help?


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## Anonymous

I use Turbo Cad v10 and its very good. I dont use it in 3d mode though , just for plan, side elevation etc drawings.

I tried a few and this one suits me the best and im still learning everytime i use it because there is so much to it but find that if i just use what i need im fine.

I think i got mine from Amazon for about £60

Jase
Coggy


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## RogerS

Many thanks to you all for the suggestions. For my part, I'll probably stick to sketching it out on a piece of graph paper and then visualising all the joints in my head...then measure as we go.


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