# Hello newbie here, timber frame log store project



## RossJarvis

Hello there, this is my first post.

I have just started working on a project to make a log store for my neighbour, based on a design I made a few years ago, which is loosely based on traditional timber framing techniques. I have tried to post some pictures but can't get the image thingy to work  , maybe it's because I've not made enough posts?

Anyone interested in watching my progress? Any one know how I can post a picture without linking through to Photobucket?

cheers  

Ross


----------



## CHJ

Picture posting guide at the top of the forum page.


----------



## richard56

Welcome, I would be interested. I like seeing this kind of thing.


----------



## RossJarvis

Thanks CHJ  Thanks for the encouragement Richard  

This is the log store I made a few years ago;





Now trying the picture thingy






I think these should be all the tools I'll need, though see note below :roll: ;






I'm going to see if I can do it without tape measures or such like, but I will be using a bench mortiser as I've not got the will to chop 32 mortises by hand (plus I completely knackered my only proper mortice chisel )

This is my plan mainly to help remember which joint to put where, it's a bit of a bodge as I am simplifying it from a jowl post design, if anyone can see any obvious problems, please chirp in;






I made a cutting list (well two actually, one metric for the woodyard and one in proper measurements for me) and popped to the local hardware shop, where I cut all the lengths I needed and bunged them into the neighbour's hatchback (ooh we can't cut that sir and we can't deliver till at least Wednesday!), So I now have one flat packed log store in the back garden. What you see is 150 quids worth of "high quality?" wet, knotty, pressure treated slightly twisted deal? spruce? pine? fir?;






And today I laid out the front frame, levelled it and checked for square with a pointy stick. Then I spent several hours looking at it whilst drinking tea, then I numbered the joints.






Tomorrow I hope to mark out the tenons and if we're really lucky I might start cutting them, If miracles do happen, I might even mark out the mortices and chop them out.


----------



## Woodchips2

Good luck, I do like following a WIP. I'd be lost without a tape measure!

In the picture of the tools you will use you forgot the packet of 'Hobnobs' to go with the tea :lol: 

Regards Keith


----------



## RossJarvis

Thanks for the reminder keith, :-D Must remember to pick up some hob-nobs when I pop to the shops, hmm chocolate hob-nobs, mmmmmmmm (homer) . I did try to find my decent tape measure, but only found the other tape measures I'd bought the last few times I tried to find it #-o 

Anyway, yesterday morning I'd laid out the front frame. I selected the best face of each timber, which will be what the neighbour will have to look at, and these are facing down, this means I can number the joints in pen on the "back". There was probably another reason for this, as there was a reason for levelling the whole lot and arranging the timbers in such an order, however I'm b******d if I can remember what these were :-k 

By yesterday evening I'd numbered the joints and added a few more bricks so today we have;






The top of the far post is showing some twist (or wind I think some people call it);






The others are laying much flatter so those timbers are probably straighter. This brings up the problem of how to cut the joint. If there was going to be a tenon on the top "beam" I could cut the mortice "square" to the face of the post. When joined the joint would force the post square, straightening it. (or it would if I was good at these things and didn't leave massive gaps  ) However this puts tension into the thing which could be a problem. I could trim the face of the twisted post to be square to the beam, or cut the tenon "shoulders" to the angle of the post face. However, this is all too brain numbing so I'll just blunder in regardless and see what happens (hammer) . 

As it is, for this joint the tenon is going to be at the top of the post. As the beam doesn't extend beyond the top of the post It's going to be either like a square peg with all the sides trimmed off, or more likely to have three sides trimmed off, leaving enough room for the wooden peg which'll hold the joint together. I'll still have the problem of how to deal with the twist. I think I'll "scribe" the tenon up from the top face of the beam. Which means that I'll mark the end of the tenon on the top of the post, parallel to the beam rear face. 

Confused, have I lost you? Well I'm now more clueless than I was when I started, we'll just see what happens shall we :shock:


----------



## AndyT

Interesting! Do you work as a timber framer? 

I find that I'm most likely to make mistakes in measurement if I use numbers - I much prefer to put similar pieces alongside each other and mark them together directly, which I think is what you intend to do.


----------



## RossJarvis

AndyT":r6qwkk4c said:


> Interesting! Do you work as a timber framer?
> 
> I find that I'm most likely to make mistakes in measurement if I use numbers - I much prefer to put similar pieces alongside each other and mark them together directly, which I think is what you intend to do.



No, I'm just an idle hobbiest, I did a short timber framing course a few years ago at the Weald and Downland museum, which was brilliant, but I didn't follow it up with any practice. Essentially I'm doing this to see how much I can remember, oh yes and to give the neighbour a nice(ish) log store  .

I think the marking stuff together technique is much better than marking out separately using measurements and I think it's how things were done traditionally. Like a lot of things in life, what works for you is "the best way".

Consider this an silly person's guide to "timber framing", me being the silly person :shock: and I hope some others will find it interesting. Now to go get those hob-nobs


----------



## Mcluma

Not to hijack this thread and so.

But firstly you'r timbers look a bit on the thin side, i would have at least used 4*2. In the one that I build I used 5*2, and that is still showing some small flex.

I like it that you want to build it traditional with m&t's

This is the one i build

Her a picture of the frame




DSC_2290 by mcluma, on Flickr

With the roof




DSC_2300 by mcluma, on Flickr

and loaded up




DSC_2320 by mcluma, on Flickr


----------



## devonwoody

Good to learn of another new member, welcome

Interesting project.

That made the timber £125 plus £25 vat. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps it was the roofing bits where the money went?


----------



## RossJarvis

McLuma; that certainly is a nice BIG wood store :shock: , I like how you've clad the outside and the pitched roof. I've found with my Mk1 store, which is smaller than yours, that it is generally pretty solid, even though you could park a bus in the gaps at the joints, maybe it's because it's smaller the 2x2 seems to work. I've braced the corners with 45 degree timbers which seem to do the trick, the only movement is at the top, which I think is because I didn't put braces in "flat" at those corners. I'll probably do that on Mk2.

DevonWoody; I didn't see the itemised bill so who knows where the money went :?: Had it been a proper wood yard and not Travesty P*****s it might have been cheaper.

I've started to mark out the joints, first I'd numbered them (well with letters actually) and written which bit were wot and which way up it goes to save confusion later;






Then I started to mark out the tenons at the top;






I'm resting the mortice chisel on the "beam" as this is pretty square and straight. The chisel is close to a third the thickness of the wood so is a good measure to get it to work. I marked with a knife first, then pencil so I can actually see the line :shock: On this joint, there is twist in the tenon piece so on one side the tenon will be closer to the edge than the other. It'll look "on the p***" but hopefully it'll be in line with the mortice (famous last words #-o ). I can plane the twisted face later to make it look straight!! :mrgreen: 

The next piccie shows me using a square off the back face of the timber to mark the ends of mortices and shoulders of tenons. This also shows up any twist in the "beams" which are the lower timbers;






The good thing about using a knife to mark is that you can hold it flat on the edge of the chisel to get your mark dead on (that's my story anyway, and I'm sticking to it :roll: 

Next I'm marking in the waste, so that I don't cut out the wrong bit of the wood #-o ;











Finally, I managed to get to Tesco to add an essential part to the tool kit, following an earlier suggestion, guess what it is? 






Next step is putting the parts on the bench, using the chisel to mark the width of the tenons and mortice's and then starting to cut holes in myself, I think I'll put 999 on speed dial.


----------



## richard56

A very interesting and entertaining read.
I don't really get on with tape measures. Everyone I've owned has a loose bit on the end! It only moved a bit about it's own thickness.


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":17w3xu2h said:


> A very interesting and entertaining read.
> I don't really get on with tape measures. Everyone I've owned has a loose bit on the end! It only moved a bit about it's own thickness.



Aha, there's a reason for that (or so the makers say), probably a problem with their rivet gun :lol: )!

Doing this the traditional way you only need pointy sticks and bits of string, I've searched and searched and can find no string  , however I have found five tape measures, all bought when I couldn't find the others, I've managed to make a pointy stick, but am having trouble finding some flax to make the string :wink: .


----------



## RossJarvis

Right then, Now I've collected the bits up and put them on the bench, I've just remembered two bits of advice; 1, when selecting the good face of the wood and putting downward to mark out, remember to look at it first #-o #-o #-o . 2, which is similar, when building something like this, which is going to be against a wall, whether it be a log store, side cabinet, kitchen, whatever, build the back first. You can hide all your mistakes against the wall and the bit that people look at will hopefully be a bit better  

Just popping out for a ream of sandpaper and some filler, must also remember to cut on the waste side of the line :roll:


----------



## Woodchips2

Well done Ross, those Hobnobs are making your brain cells click :lol: 
Regards Keith


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Hi Ross

You've got a very entertaining writing style, I've been laughing all the way through this excellent thread, and I think you've done really well in cracking some of the classic framing problems. I like your design and your marking out methods and considering your experience you're doing a grand job. I think common sense isn't that common these days and you seem to have it in spades!

Now...where are those hob nobs


----------



## RossJarvis

Step the next. Marking out on the bench.

As the tenons are going into a hole cut by a mortice chisel, you can mark the thickness of the tenon with the aforementioned chisel, just remember, this works for both traditional mallet powered ones (hammer) and the new fangled hollow ones with a drill down the middle wot a motor turns. If using a proper mallet powered one don't lay the chisel on it's side as it's got a taper on it  Additionally don't lay the chisel down on the edge of the bench or anywhere where it can fall on a flagstone floor hopefully you don't need to ask why, but I did this twice #-o #-o #-o






Once you've marked out both sides (ends?) of the tenon you can join them together with the chisel.






Once marked in, you can mark the waste, I use a soft pencil for this, but a marker pen or paint roller are just as good, make sure it's *OBVIOUS* which bit of wood you need to keep and which bit gets cut out  This is the tenon, which is on the twisted end of the post, so it's actually supposed to be on the p*** (at an angle!) honest!






Now then, when you find you can't find your marking knife because you put it down somewhere safe, you may be lucky enough to have an American Carpenters Square and you can always use the scriber in the base.






I'm not sure why the Americans have carpenters squares like this, as it is very very similar to an engineers combination square, the only difference being that you have to fettle it first to make it work =D> 

Next marking out the lap joint (I think that's what this is called, though I suppose it might be a halved joint or halving joint, I'm relatively sure it's not a housing joint). For this I'm joining two timbers cut to about midway. To get the middle line of the wood, I'm using a marking gauge. First off set it to about the middle of the timber and mark a dot in from each side;




If lucky or skilled (or both) you'll either have two dots very close together or one dot. If you've one dot you're spot on. Look at the point on the gauge and if it is set wider than midpoint then narrow the gap, if shorter than midpoint open the gap. I was taught that you do the thumbscrew up till it just bites first and tap the thin bit of the gauge on the bench to adjust the gap. When right, tighten the thumbscrew a bit more.

"Tapping the gauge" (Dear me I could do with tapping a firkin right now!!);






Mark the midline in from what will be the front face of the post, then square the edges of the joint and mark the waste.

Next mark the joint in the beam. You don't need to reset the gauge and it's actually better if you don't. If the two timbers are different thicknesses, this'll cause problems. Just remember to mark in from the front face of this timber too.;






I don't see the need to mark the other side of the mortices as The lines marked are off the datum, plus with the morticer the chisel, cutty, drilly thing takes care of the other side.

If anyone's still watching, please tell me if I'm going on too much, or giving information you already know. If any moderators are watching please feel free to rename the thread as "How not to build a log store in 135 easy steps" :lol:


----------



## RossJarvis

Random Orbital Bob":1wz7q3cn said:


> Hi Ross
> 
> You've got a very entertaining writing style, I've been laughing all the way through this excellent thread, and I think you've done really well in cracking some of the classic framing problems. I like your design and your marking out methods and considering your experience you're doing a grand job. I think common sense isn't that common these days and you seem to have it in spades!
> 
> Now...where are those hob nobs



Thanks for your kind words Bob, you've cheered me up no end. It may be amusing, but I call it "being honest with a bit of a smile".


----------



## morfa

Genuinely funny. Enjoying the pics of the build as well.


----------



## richard56

Thumbs up from me.


----------



## RossJarvis

I marked the mortices for the end of the beam, by resting them flat on the ends of the posts with the front face down, I then marked them up by using the mortice chisel. A lot of head scratching occurred trying to do this in the middle of the beam, cos I couldn't get it flush due to the wide shank. I then remembered how to use the "American Carpenter's Square" as a marking gauge, this means I can probably do away with the older beech gauge I was using.

What I did was place the chisel flush to the right angled handley bit (stock?) and slid the rule down till it was flush with the chisel;







Then I could use this to mark in from the "front face", using the end of the rule to scribe along.






Then I dropped the chisel on the stone flags for a third time #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o


----------



## RossJarvis

Now all the joints are marked out, it's time to do a check. As AndyT said, he likes to do the parallel timbers together, which is to my mind the best way of knowing they're right. So what I did was put all the posts together and lined up the marks at one end;






I'm not overly concerned about them being dead in line to a thou or two as this is a bit of rustic garden furniture, so tolerances are fairly loose. I then look at how the other ends line up;






You can probably see that they don't line up perfectly, and this would probably not be acceptable for a piece of fine cabinet work, but I'm happy to leave these as they are till I've cut the tenons. The two main reasons for error/difference is my own cack handedness  (I know, hard to believe, but possible!) or it could be down to some twist,wind,spring,bow, etc etc in the wood. The fact that the distances between the marks seem unequal makes me lean toward the former. If the marks, particularly for the middle post, were higher or lower it might be more likely to be the wood.

Now for the beams, line up the tenons at one end and, oops :shock: ;






That's a bit outside tolerance, even for me! So, lay out all the bits again,






no need for levelling here, and only an "eyed in look' for square. Place the parts together lining up all the marks and then measure between the posts. It was fairly obvious the top of the right hand post was a good 1/2 - 3/4" out of where it should be. I think it got knocked a bit during yesterday's marking up/out. Obviously the bricks weren't up to holding everything together well enough. (in case you're wondering what the bricks were for, they were to pin the posts onto the beams to restrict movement. This was a "traditional method" wot I invented cos my handy clamps weren't big enough to hold the timbers together :idea: 

Once I'd put it back where it should be I could re-mark the end of the mortice and job done! In my way of working I find it best to check everything a good few times before committing myself to hewing and sawing. It doesn't prevent all mistakes, but brings the number of them down to managable levels 

Aha, the apprentice has arrived, late as usual!






I wanted him to do the mortices for me, but he says no! Some lame excuse about not having opposable thumbs.

Anyhoo, it's now past Simpsons O'Clock so I think I'll put the tools and timbers to bed and go and carry on sitting down inside  

If anyone can help me figure out whether to cut the tenons first or the mortices, please chip in. For some reason I've now forgot, I was going to do the tenons first and then offer them up to the marks for the mortices and then do those. Is that a good way round? or should I do the mortices first? Or is it a case of 6 1/2 of one and half a baker's dozen of the other?


----------



## AndyT

Fwiw I meant it was a good idea to cramp all your stock side by side and mark them all at once!

But I'm sure you are in tolerance on this job and it will all go together with a little persuasion from a 'Birmingham Screwdriver!'

And I prefer to cut mortices to the size of my chisel and make/adjust tenons to fit.


----------



## RossJarvis

AndyT":2bxqqai5 said:


> Fwiw I meant it was a good idea to cramp all your stock side by side and mark them all at once!
> 
> But I'm sure you are in tolerance on this job and it will all go together with a little persuasion from a 'Birmingham Screwdriver!'
> 
> And I prefer to cut mortices to the size of my chisel and make/adjust tenons to fit.



Thanks Andy. I had assumed you meant that about the marking, I might not have made that clear. I learnt on the framing course that this wouldn't have been done a few hundred years ago on house framing.

With well seasoned and stable wood, accurately cut, this method is fine and I think preferable to marking each piece individually. On "green oak" that's been converted by side Axe, 12" square plus. There won't be a straight line or a flat face, (however the skill and accuracy of some working in the past and today, with a string line and side axe is awesome to behold). In that case, each joint has to be cut in place, face to face off-set, in a levelled and squared frame. We were shown how to join two twisted beams so that where they met the faces were flat and square and you couldn't fit a fag paper into the joint. All with a plumb bob level and a pair of dividers, a couple of saws and a couple of chisels. That's what I'm sort of trying to replicate here, in scale.

In this instance, comparing the joints next to each other "after the event" shows up major errors pretty well.

I'm a strong advocate of measure twice, then just to be sure measure again, go get the saw, then measure again, maybe it is now safe to cut. Then measure it again to find out where you went wrong  

Try and teach that to the youth of today and they'd just laugh.,


----------



## RossJarvis

Morning all.

Well another day dawned, It rained last night and some damp seems to have got into the workshop;





Luckily I threw a tarp over the timber, so it shouldn’t be too wet, (well no wetter than it was when I got it from the wood-yard {when I say wood-yard, I actually mean a car-park down the local hardware store, not a proper wood-yard![when I say hardware store, I actually mean a branch of a well known money-removal chain with the initials TP, not a proper hardware store!]}) 

Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, looking back over the previous posts I noticed I was starting to sound like a teacher and getting into a lot of possibly pointless detail. Please chip in and tell me if I’m being boring or irrelevant, though try and be gentle about it.

Todays progress, a tenon and a lap-joint have been part completed (I’m sure it’s not called a lap -joint, surely a “lap joint” has subdued lighting and shiny poles everywhere!)

Firstly I clamped the post to my “workbench”, not having a good vice I used some clampy things. I discovered it best to have the long arms of the clamps going under the bench, not out where your legs are (ouch). Clamping as close to the bit you’re going to cut seems to be a good idea, but a bit tricky with long bits of wood if you want them upright.





So I had to lay this down a bit further than in the photo, I didn’t want it flat ‘cos I wanted it at an angle to see the marked lines at the top and the side. This meant I could line the tenon saw up;





Then I sawed at an angle till the hole (kerf?) had got down to the line marked for the shoulder of the tenon;





For this bit I was using a “rip cut” tenon saw, which seems to be working well “along the grain”. I bought this from a well known “Carpet Warehouse” (see if you can work out which shop I mean here!) a few years ago, like with most of my tools, it’s been lying around and attracting the “tin worm”.

I cut both sides (cheeks?) of the tenon and turned the wood round and came in from the other side, leaving a “v” shaped bit in the middle;





The last bit I did was cut “square” trying not to go past my marked “shoulder” line;





Nextly I cut square across the wood, using a hardpoint “tenon saw” which has a “cross cut”, this seems to be easier “across the grain”. I tried my best to get the lines and the blade vertical, and “eyed down” the blade to get it straight;





And “bam! Roberts your father’s brother”, “job done, one slightly wobbly sided tenon;





To be continued……


----------



## RossJarvis

Now it was time for the “lap joint”. First I clamped the timber to the “workbench” (If you’re making a nice bit of furniture, make sure the bench is dry and the moss has been brushed off!).

Then I eyed up the cross-cut saw across the lines, trying to remember to cut “inside the lines”, and then cut across. I tried holding the saw with the handle lower than the blade, so that I could see when I got to the line, Once done I carefully got the saw level and cut down looking to see that I hadn’t gone too far on the other side. I then cut the other end of the joint and sawed across the middle too. This seems a good idea, so that the “chunks” I knock out with the chisel aren’t too big, and don’t take wood away wot should stay in the timber, innit! (sorry, lapsing into yoof speak there).





Once this was done I rolled the timber on its side, with the joint away from me, so that I could whack it with a big chisel and mallet. I did it this way round so that the chunks of wood would fly off into the beloved’s flower pots and not anything important I may have below the waist (I’m sure they’ll come in handy some day, just like all my other unused tools!). I had the bevel of the sharp end toward the bottom of the joint, in the hope that this will stop the chisel diving into the wood;





BISH, BASH, BOSH, A few applications of the hitting stick to the chisel and there’s chunks of wood in the dahlias and a right old mess in the hole! When I got nearer to the line, I turned the chisel round, so the flat edge was nearer the bottom of the hole and bashed a little bit softer. I only bashed out to about halfway through this side, I think next time I’ll stop a bit further from the line and come back to it later;





Then I flipped the wood over, bashed in with the chisel from the other side, leaving a little “hillock” in the middle. Lastly I turned the wood “flat” and shimmied in with the chisel by hand, using a “wiggling” motion, this seems to work better than forcing it, or using the hitting stick;





As you can see from the piccie below, I’ve sawed down a bit too far and probably bashed out a bit too much wood, the bottom of the joint is a bit on the p*** (not flat!) I'm not sure if I need more saw cuts in the middle of the wood, or less bashing! (probably both). I was also a bit unnerved to see that I’d missed a mark, and thought I must have cut across the wood at an angle;





However checking with the square showed that I had cut across the wood reasonably well, meaning I’d drawn the line in the wrong place. Can’t have been squaring the square, square across the wood very well, had we then!;





The edges of the joint weren’t particularly vertical, but hopefully this’ll all come out in the wash, when I fit the joint and re-apply the sharp cutty thing (if that’s not mixing too many metaphors, synonyms, whatever!);





“Et Viola” (as the musicians say in France!), after much procrastination we have a part finished post.





I’m going to cut one part of each joint on all the timbers first and then offer each one up to it’s opposite number before doing the next lot. Hopefully this’ll help me bodge all my mistakes into some semblance of “carpentry”.

Ooer, look, it’s lunch time already and all I’ve done is start cutting two joints, I better get on and stop blathering to you and get them joints done. (Lunch time! MMMMMMM, where’s that frying pan gone?)


----------



## RossJarvis

Aha, whilst cutting out the next “lap-joint” (oh hello…erm, what is your name? Susan. I couldn’t see your name badge…mind you I’m not sure where you’d put a name badge!)

Oh! Where was I, yes, the next lap joint. I cut two extra slots across this, about ½” apart. The wood chunks popped out very nicely from this and went all the way across so I didn’t have to turn it over to come in from the other side. I stopped a couple of mm above the line, then just pushed the chisel down vertically, this sliced the wood out easily and left a nice smooth surface at the bottom of the joint, I believe you need a nice sharp chisel for this;










Five tenons and two lap-joints done and still loads of time for doing the next bits, plus sitting down with a cup of tea (no hob-nobs though, the b****y apprentice scoffed the lot when I wasn’t looking!);





see you later!


----------



## RossJarvis

Oooh, just sat down on the sofa for a minute to rest my eyelids and look, here we are three hours later. The “apprentice” wanted to go round the park for a walk and to play with some tennis balls, and as I’m sure any trades-people here will know, all he did was get into a fight and sit on his balls for a while! Won’t do any fetching or carrying that lad! Just need a cuppa, then I’ll pop out and see to the timber.


----------



## No skills

Great stuff, certainly see shades of my own work here...


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":253n8kvd said:


> Great stuff, certainly see shades of my own work here...



Thanks "No skills".


----------



## RossJarvis

*“Ladies and Gentlemen, We interrupt the main feature for a brief intermission, choc-ices, Poppets and Kia-Ora can be bought from Gladys, who will come amongst you with her well stacked tray! Woodbines, Park Drive and Capstan Full Strength can be purchased from the Kiosk. We will be showing a public information film called ‘a brief review of the Power Craft 370W Bench Morticer”.*

I’ve only used one of these things once before, so if anyone who knows what they’re doing can see the “stupids” I’m doing please chip in!!

Many a year ago a friend of mine suggested popping into Aldi/Lidl/Netto as they had some carpentry stuff on sale, I’m sure nobody on here has ever been taken in by this reckless impulse☺.

So off we popped and an hour or two later and despite my usual desire to buy the best kit I can get, I came home with a bench morticer, table saw, compound mitre saw, a set of morticer “chisels” and a set of dowels and £120 less in the bank. Anyway most of this has been placed in the “climate controlled store” till such time as it may come in handy, that’s it in the box under the generator;





Having been asked to do this log-store thingy, I thought “aha” the time of handiness has come, so out it got shifted.

Somehow it seemed to be in good nick and this is what you get;





A lump of metal and some bits ‘n’ bobs, loose or in bags, including one 5/16 “chisel”. It has Omega-Wolf Ltd on the label and is made in China. This may be a successor in name to Wolf, the old British Machine-Tool company who used to make very good industrial machine tools “back in the day”. It says the chisel range is 6-13mm and maximum drill size is 13mm.

You need to fit the fence, footie-holdie-woodie-down thing, piece of wood for the table wotsit, pull-the-thing-down handle and you get an extension piece/taper doo-dah (which they call a taper drift, but it aint wot I call a taper drift, that's wot you knock one of these things out with surely) and spare chuck to use it as a bench drill. The machine itself is made of castings, as is the base and feels pretty solid and weighty. Not too bad for about 30quid thought I! There are four slots on the “foot plate” for a drill vice or similar and four mounting holes. BEFORE USE THIS MACHINE REALLY DOES NEED TO BE SECURED TO A STURDY WORKBENCH, YES, REALLY!”

Once (ahem) securely mounted on the machine bench!!!……..

*“WARNING WARNING, don’t try this at home children, this man is a trained professional (admittedly not in a wood workshop!), and says he knows what he is doing! He may not necessarily follow best H&S or machinery practice to the letter!”*

…..I attached the fence, the foot thingy and the wooden base-plate wotsit. The instructions are okayish but not overly clear, the machine already had the fence guide fitted which was not how the instructions had it.

Having loosely put this together I tried to square the fence up to the two pillars that the morticer moves up and down on;







I found that the guide that the fence moves in and out on has a fair bit of slop and if you’re a perfectionist, you’ll have to square the fence every time you move it, plus I doubt whether it’ll stay square when used. The travel on the fence is locked with a lifty-handley thing and the foot wotsit is adjusted and locked by a turney-wheel handle. Having tried it, I think they would be better the other way round, but they have different thread sizes so can’t be. You need to get more force on the foot to hold the wood down, particularly when withdrawing the chisel after the first cut. After the first cut, the wood grips onto the chisel quite hard and lifts with the chisel, pushing the foot back up. As it is, I had to lean down hard on the timber and pull the handle up, or apply a mallet! The motion is also very stiff and you have to put a lot of force on the handle to move it down, or pull it out of wood. This may be because it doesn’t have a normal spring, but a piston-rod-thingy like on the hatch-back of a car.

It has a depth-stop(?) Which you need to set by rule-and-eye or by lowering the mortice chisel to the required depth, but it’s a bit tricky as I can find no lock for setting the lowered morticer at a fixed height. I also first set this by eying through to the body casting, which is where I thought it would contact, but found a panel on the base of the casting actually touched the stop first;





Unfortunately this is all a bit irrelevant, as the depth-stop(?) does not bite onto the pillar very well. The amount of force required to lower the machine and cut into the wood is so high that the depth stop will slide down the pillar when the morticer gets to it. I found I had to lean down to look at the depth-stop to see when the casing came to it, cos I had it on a low bench. The low bench was an advantage as I had to lean on the handle very hard to get it to work, the handle is made of thin-walled tubing held by a small screw and I’m concerned as to how well it will stand up to the force placed on it.

Next thing I did was mount the chisel. This is a squared hollow piece of steel, machined to have four sharp points and sharp edges to cut a “square hole”into the wood, there is an auger bit up the middle to cut most of the wood out. I was using the largest bit, 19mm which is (ahem!) bigger than specified (oops!) But it came in the set wot were on sale in the same shop from the same brand!!!. This may have caused some issues, which smaller chisels won’t, so bear this in mind when reading this review. 

Due to clearance issues, I could not put the chisel in followed by the auger, so I put them both in together pushing them up using my finger tip, as stated in the instructions, there’s probably a much safer way of doing this! Please someone tell me!

I realised I had to open the Jacob’s chuck first as the auger shank is pretty thick. The chuck itself is fully enclosed in the casting, and there are two “windows” you can open to tighten and loosen the chuck with a “safety key”. However it’s very easy to leave the key in the chuck as it can stick in the window. Remember “EITHER THE CHUCK’S IN THE HAND OR THE BOX, NEVER LEAVE IT IN THE B****Y CHUCK OR YOU”LL BE B****Y SORRY!” as an instructor I know is fond of saying;





The chisel itself is held in the collar of the machine with a hex socket screw and “Allen Key”;





There doesn’t seem to be anywhere to clip the key to the machine, which is a bit of a pain, however the chuck key can be clipped to one or other of the windows. When you drop the “Allen Key” under the bench, which you will do, often, this is an excellent opportunity to find all those other little wotsits you couldn’t seem to find earlier☺;

I think the chisel should be squared to the fence; sliding the fence forward and setting it to the front face of the foot thingy could do this;





Mind you this showed up another problem; the footy thing slides down in front of the fence, this means you can’t get the chisel closer to the fence than about 19mm, ¾”. If you’re doing smaller mortices you may want to have a smaller gap to the fence and can’t. I thought you may want to put some hardwood, nylon or something on the fence, either side of the footy thing to do this. You could use carpet tape or glue to do this, but there are no holes in the fence to screw something to the face. You’d have to do this yourself. If I’m missing an obvious trick here please tell me, (gently of course).

It was now time to get the thing going, smoke was plumbed into the machine through a piece of electric string via a standard 3 pin plug and the start button was pressed. The machine has a start button and stop button, the start button being guarded by raised edges, the stop button not, which is a “safety feature. At this point I realised I’ve probably set the thing up wrongly. I think the auger should be inserted quite far into the chisel, but I seem to have pushed it in too far. With the power on the motor hummed but did not turn the auger. It was fouling inside the chisel. I stopped and restarted the motor and there were some grindy, crunchy noises and then it seemed to run smoothlyish. Have I missed a trick here? Or is this a normal bedding-in process. Should I have locked the chisel in place first and then dropped the auger a tad, or is there some quick way of setting a clearance?

I then applied some brute force to a piece of treated pine (CLS?). This is where I found you need a lot of force on the lever and you definitely need to have the thing bolted down to a solid bench. There is a lot of resistance in the mechanism, which may be simple to “fettle” out but I haven’t had time to look into that. This may have been in some point due to using too large a chisel, but it was very stiff even before the chisel got to the wood. I can’t see the auger pulling the chisel through the wood with the current set up. The working surface is quite small and there are no outriggers. You’ll need to have supports for wood of any length. I also realised that if you were going to put this on a smaller bench, you’d probably benefit from pre-drilling mounting holes at each end and the middle of the bench and maybe using wing-nuts to secure it. You can then easily move it around for longer lengths of wood. I SUGGEST YOU DON’T GET TEMPTED INTO USING IT WITHOUT SOME FORM OF SECURING! Also; THE CHUCK KEY SHOULD ALWAYS BE IN YOUR HAND OR IN THE TOOL BOX, NEVER LEAVE IT IN THE CHUCK!!

To sum up: This is not a serious machine for serious carpentry. It seems to be suitable for light craft-work and occasional use. It is limited to a13mm cut. It is a pretty solid machine, which could be much improved if you’re a good fettler. I think it needs a certain amount of fettling out of the box to be usable or safe, but that may be because this one has been in storage for a few years. I’m not sure if these things are on sale at the moment, but this sort of thing comes around every so often in Aldi/Netto/Lidl (still can’t remember which one!). Also I’m sure idiots like me are putting them on ebay now and again.


*“Ladies and Gentlemen, please return to your seats as the main feature is about to start. Gladys also asks that the young gentlemen in the back row stop pinching her Kia-Oras or she’ll give ‘em a right what for!”*


----------



## RossJarvis

Hennyway (as they say in Croydon!)

I’d completed all the tenons on the front frame pieces and cut the lap-joint (“I say, HOW MUCH!?!?, for a gin and tonic!? When I wandered in here I was thinking it was like any other normal pub!”).

I thought I’d fit the lap-joint first and then offer all the other tenons up to see if I’d got anywhere near with the marks for the mortices. First thing I noticed was that it wouldn’t fit together straight away, which I think is a good thing, apparently it’s harder to put wood back on with a chisel than take it off, so if anything I’d tried to cut “inside my lines” As I’m not particularly good at holding the saw “square or plumb” or following the line. 

I got out the chisel and pushed down, shaving the “sides” of the joint, particularly where I could see I was inside my marked line; 





I kept doing this to see if the joint would fit and tried to look at which “face?” of the joint was wider. Whilst doing this I somehow remembered some good advice wot a “proper chippie” had told me ages ago. Instead of offering the joint, open hole to open hole;





I did each one at a time, offering the joint up to the “back” of the joint, i.e. the other side of the timber, where it was whole. With doing this I got the two to match up and they slid together as a firm sliding fit, but I did have to resort to the hitting stick to get it all the way in, but this was “tapping it” and not “bashing” it. The last time did this I think I offered the joints up face to face and ended up with somewhere to park my bicycle!

As I said, it went together with a bit of force and I’m quite chuffed with how it turned out. No big gaps;





That looks pretty square to me;





And the front faces seem fairly level;





Next up, putting the frame loosely together to check the joints against each other, before committing to more “butchery”;





I’d put a wee bit of effort into levelling the frame, with some (ahem) off-cuts (okay, they’re going to be the side beams and braces, but let’s not worry about mere details here). The bottom “beam” and middle “post” were fairly square so I used these as my “reference”. I put the top “beam” across and the side posts, trying to match tenons to mortice marks, this was a bit tricky as I haven’t followed standard practice here. Normally (or at least when building a house or barn!) the posts have tenons at each and the beams mortices. As I have little legs underneath the bottom beam (floor plate?) the mortices are in the bottom of the posts. This means I’ll have to slide the top beam across when checking each joint.

Once I’d sorted out where the bits went, I thought I’d just check the top beam for “square”;









I’m not sure how clearly the electric Daguerreotype shows it, but you can probably see that there’s something not right here and it looks like the top beam is bowed.

*“Ladies and Gentlemen, we have another brief intermission, the feature will restart presently, young gentlemen in the back row, if Gladys comes in here once more telling me what you are doing, we will have to remove you from the theatre!”*

I tried to use the square the other way round to check the beam too and then started to think the square wasn’t! So I went to check the square.

An Engineer told me (“before he died, tiddy boom, tiddy boom, tiddy boom!”), that a quick way to check a square was this, Get a nice straight bit of desk or something, hold the stock of the square to the edge of it, firmly and mark a line up the “blade,rule, long-bendy-thingy; 






Flip it over and check to see if the blade-wotsit follows the line, 






If it does, it’s fine, if not it’s time for them “fettling” files, or if you have a fixed square, you’ll need what I think AndyT refers to as a “Birmingham screwdriver”. This square seemed okay for government work, so I went off back to the “workshop”.

*“Ladies and Gentlemen please regain your seats as the main feature is about to restart, YOU LOT IN THE BACK ROW GET OUT NOW OR I’LL HAVE THE ROZZERS ON YA!”*

Just going out for a walk with the apprentice and his aunty. I’ve just had a chat with the neighbour over the fence, so I’d better get on with the work soon and stop blathering with you. See you later, byeee.


----------



## RossJarvis

Hello again peeps! It’s all gone a bit quiet out there, have I bored you all or have you all gone to work or else found something useful to do instead?

Please just say hello now and again as it’s getting a bit lonely in the “workshop”. The only company I get is "the apprentice" and his aunty, and they don’t pop in much, and when they do they just end up shouting at the neighbours!

I’ve come on a bit since I last blathered on so let’s see where we are then Oh yes, tenons and lap-joint done. I think I laid the frame out again and this gave me the opportunity to check all the marks were lining up etc, I seem to find the more times I check, the more mistakes I find, I suppose that’s better than finding the mistakes after sharp thing hits wood!, I’d had a bit of a problem trying to square the top beam about the top of the middle post cos the beam was bowed and I found there was a bit of deformity in the post too. What I needed thought I was a big Austrian, so I popped out to the porch and found him hanging around in a corner behind several years worth of cobwebs, this is the big Austrian here;






I call him the big Austrian (TBA) because…well, he’s over six foot tall and from Austria. (He’s also fairly well built, spends most of his time leaning against walls and seems pretty quiet and miserable, but I don’t mention that to his face!)

I squared off TBA at the middle post;





and then lined everything up. I could now check the mortices against the end of the tenons and see whether I needed to adjust owt. This one seems okay, so I marked it with a tick (just need to remember what that means when cutting!);





I then started making chips and dust with the morticer as mentioned somewhere earlier, resulting in;





Just like wot a proper chippie might do with an auger and chisel, only rougher and about twice as slow, I might get quicker with practice!

I’m making the mortices three “chisels” long, cos the chisel is about a third of a timber-width square and I think there’s generally a “rule of thirds” or something when doing mortice and tenons, well it makes sense to me! The mortices at the end of the beam are two “chisels” long, as the end of the beam is going to be flush with the side of the post. I don’t want the end or “sides,edges?” of the tenons showing so all these mortices are “blind?” is that the word?, well they don’t go through the whole timber anyway. This doesn’t leave much “end grain” in the beam, but I’m hoping that won’t be a problem.

Brrrr, Graunch, Whizz, not many minutes later all the mortices are done. Next step, fitting the tenons into the holes, or is it fitting the holes around the tenons?

For this I was going to use two chisels, bevel edge ones. Here’s one I’d prepared earlier;





and one I hadn’t;





This is me realising the thinner one probably wasn’t up to todays job!;





The second one is essentially as it came when new (these had had the “secondary bevel” cut at the factory, possibly with a mill file!!) apart from where I’d been bashing some wood with a nail in it or something, I think that was when I was “easing” the old back door frame out a couple of years back. You can also see how well I keep my tools from this shot!!

And this is it after a couple of swipes across a sharpening stone (or two!);





I think the glint of sunlight off the “fettled” bit means it’s approaching “sharp enough” Here’s a shot in the shade showing it’s not quite as “polished as it could be;





Next step was fitting the mortices to the tenons. Both chisels were reasonably sharp so only needed a firm push to shave the sides of the hole. I didn’t need to do much wiggling and took a little bit off at a time. As the auger in the morticer chisel was a bit proud of the edges of the chisel it had left ridges down the holes, so I only really needed to shave these plus a bit extra on some, depending on how badly I’d butchered the tenon. I felt it better to shave the holes than the tenon as there was more wood in the mortice lump of wood than in the tenon, though someone who knows what they’re doing may wish to chip in here with better advice.

Most of the mortices were “long?” enough to not need the “ends” shaved, which was lucky, as the thin/narrow? Chisel was a very tight squeeze in the hole. (eight Swedish chisels, all in metric! All exactly the wrong size for any proper work!!!).

I’m making a rustic store, so I’m letting most of the tenons go full width of the timber. If I was more concerned with neatness, I might make the holes (mortices) less long/wide? And shave a tad off the “edges?” of the tenons. I think this might make the joint look a bit better.

“Oh! You’re here then!!” This is the “apprentice” again;





He’d taken me for a walk round the park earlier, found one of his balls he’d lost in the fight yesterday and was most pleased to have a pair again! And then, like most apprentices, mooched off when he was needed and couldn’t be found (I’m sure any trades-people here know exactly what I’m talking about!). This photo was approaching lunch-time and he’d come to the workshop looking for some Hobnobs. I’d just asked him to clamp summat up with the handy clamp, he looked down at it, then up at me and said “Wot! Me! With my thumbs, you know I aint gonna be doin’ that!!”

I think it’s time to rest my eyes again, I’ll be back a little later, remember to say hello if you’re still interested.


----------



## Paul Chapman

Hello. Keep up the good work - most entertaining  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## Woodchips2

Hi Ross
This is by far the most amusing WIP I've read. Did you by any chance write for The Two Ronnies? :lol: 

Regards Keith


----------



## RossJarvis

The Eriba Turner":3jol9rbm said:


> Hi Ross
> This is by far the most amusing WIP I've read. Did you by any chance write for The Two Ronnies? :lol:
> 
> Regards Keith



Thanks Keith, boy do I wish I had written for them! I think I watched too many episodes of the Two Ronnies, saw too many Carry On films and listened to too much Sorry I Haven't a Clue, for my own good!!

Ross


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":31503mrd said:


> Hello. Keep up the good work - most entertaining
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Thanks for the encouragement Paul  . I tried sending you an email, don't know if it got through.


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":1wb2iko6 said:


> I tried sending you an email, don't know if it got through.



Yes, it arrived OK. I've replied.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## richard56

Very enjoyable. Keep up the good work

Rich


----------



## No skills

Spooky :shock: , I too have 'chisels' that look like that... I too have an aldi morticer hidden in the garage that has never been taken out of the box... I too... err... well that's it really.


----------



## No skills

I'm sure the purists on here are flattening their waterstones in disgust. Humorous WIP? tsk!


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":202bjcgc said:


> I'm sure the purists on here are flattening their waterstones in disgust. Humorous WIP? tsk!



=D> Ooh, excellent  , if they're doing that they can do mine while they're at it;





The rough one's hollowed out like a Congo canoe and I haven't been out to "true it up" on one of the patio paving slabs for ages :twisted:

As it is, the dislodged grit is great for cleaning tea stains off the kitchen sink! Sorry, I mean grinding work station. Just going off to assume the position and lock my elbows (or is it lock my position and assume my elbows?!)


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":14ynx4iy said:


> Spooky :shock: , I too have 'chisels' that look like that... I too have an aldi morticer hidden in the garage that has never been taken out of the box... I too... err... well that's it really.



 No Skills, hopefully you didn't get into the position I did. Liking a bit of wood-bashing, I got an interest and then started buying a "few basic items", before I knew it I had turned into a "collector" and didn't have time to do any b****y woodwork. I think the point at which I realised this, was after spending 3 hours trying to sharpen a "Ray Iles" Plane Iron for my Bedrock. I bunged the whole caboodle on ebay, stipulating that cos I'd butchered it's mouth with a hand file :twisted: and the iron was half a foot thick, that it was not for collectors. I think I just about broke even there. (B****y thing never worked as sweet as my Record anyway!


----------



## RossJarvis

Now, then youngsters, I popped downstairs to get on with the wotsit, but noticed we’d got more damp in the “workshop”;





I think it’s also spreading near the “climate controlled” storeroom;





Thought I’d have to look into that before carrying on, but decided to turn the heater on instead, to see if that’ll dry it out.

In the meantime, I’ll just “develop” some more photos to show you where I’d got to. I’m running ahead on the work now and I’ll forget where I am if I’m going to keep you lot up to date!


----------



## RossJarvis

Hello again chums, I’ve just got the photos off the dryer, so I can show you a bit more progress.

I seem to remember that I’d “fitted” the holes (sorry, mortices) to the tenons. The next step was fitting the tenons to the h..mortices.

Due to variations in cack-handedness, some of the tenons needed a minor tap with a hitting-stick, some were push fits and a couple had associated “priest holes” and plopped in with no help at all. I’ll have to knock up a bit of “wooden shim” to cover those up before the “roundheads” pop round to check.

Remember, as I’m trying to fit each joint separately, this is a bit time consuming, but I’m learning a lot. I started this job Monday, it’s Saturday now and the total time of wood-bashing has been less than an hour (possibly not more than 10 minutes!). Hopefully the back frame will go together a lot quicker.

First off, offer the tenon up to the mortice and simply insert (as the chippie said to the Bishop☺). Making sure that the timbers are level and square. As I’ve made the tenons long (“It’s easier to take the wood off with a saw than put it back on, so err on the side of caution” I seem to remember being told at night school!), they don’t go all the way and I’ve marked the tenon where it meets the face of the other timber;





What I’m trying to do here is make the tenon fit the hole as fully as possible (“ooh-er missus I don’t know if I’ll be able to achieve that” says Justin Welby, Grief, I just hope he isn’t watching!). As the joint is going to be pegged, I want as much “end-grain” on the tenon as I can get, so that it doesn’t get “torn out”. Nextly I transferred the marked line down a bit to give me a line to cut the end off. I’m using a rule for this, but you don’t need anything so modern, a bit of stick would do. What I did was hold the rule so that one end was on the marked line, I then marked where this met the end of the tenon;





I’m using some “milling engineer’s adhesive setting shim” here. (If any “millers’ are watching, I’m using the stuff in the green packets, a true professional uses the blue packets!). Then I just slide the rule down to where it touches the “shoulder” of the tenon and mark where the “shim” has got to;





I did this both ends of the line, and ruled across between the marks. I could have squared across, but then I’d have to mark from the bit of the line closest to the tenon shoulder, I think there is a good reason for this but I can't remember what it was! Then I marked where the waste was and cut the end off the tenon. REMEMBER, CUT ACROSS THE LINE CLOSEST TO THE END OF THE TENON, NOT THE LINE YOU DREW FIRST! Don’t ask me how I know this!


----------



## RossJarvis

Haunched Tenon: For the end of the “beam” I was going to put one of these in the top of the post, so that it was secure and you wouldn’t see much “choppery-pokery”. I’ve since had a look in me books and all the pictures of these look different to mine! Hey-ho, with any luck no-one’s going to be poking around in there to see (and if they are I’m gonna have to tell Father O’Reilly to scarper sharpish first!).

I offered the tenon up to the mortice. I’d left this the full width of the timber, as I can’t remember where I’ve left me glue! Then I marked the width of the h…mortice onto the end of the tenon, remembering to hatch the bit I didn’t want,;










Next I cut the spare bit off the tenon and I shaved the inside of the mortice as close as any barber round our way(something for the weekend sir?). The picture shows another mortice, these ones aren’t so long remember;





I could now wiggle the bit of the tenon to see if it would fit in the hole. It was a bit too long/wide? So I shaved a smidge off with the big Swede (I call him that because he’s bigger than the other chisel…….and he’s from Sweden. (Great people the Swede’s, but Cross & Blackwell call them Rutabagans?);





Nextly, I bunged the wood in the hole, marked a line, chopped the end off and hey Presto, job done (speaking of which, I’ve not seen a Presto for ages, probably gone the same way as Lyon’s cornerhouse!).

I could now stick the whole thing together to see where I’d gone wrong so far;





Now then, some of you lot weren’t watching properly when I made my lap-joint (“pay to leave? What do you mean I’ve got to pay to leave? This is the oddest pub I’ve ever been in, and some of those girls over there are going to catch their death of cold!”), were you? One of you at least could have told me I’d cut a hole in the wrong side of the bottom beam couldn’t you? I was b****y chuffed with that joint too. Never mind, they say pride always precedes a fall, shoulda been paying attention me’self I suppose.

Anyway, I’m still reasonably pleased with all the joints and there’ll be some bodging I can do to save the day with the bottom beam;

















Think I’ll tell Toni it’ll look nice with a lick of paint on, it’s only knotty old carcassing after all, so at the end of the day it’s not supposed to be seen anyway.

Ooh it looks like the heater’s dried out the workshop so I can go and start sorting out me braces. “about time too” says the beloved “you’ve been wandering around all week with your trousies round your knees, with you’re a*** hanging out and your Jockey shorts on display, you look like a flippin teenager you do!”

TTFN See you later.


----------



## No skills

You've got it made, heater in the workshop. Fancy Swedish chisels. Joints that fit. You posh git.

Tool collector? me? slightly, I was a tool collector before I was a woodworker really - still its lead to 'better' things. I cant afford the tools I want these days so I generally wood work more, hopefully the economy will improve and I cant return to my real hobby.

Good progress so far, that would of taken me half a day at least.


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":1wbjj4g2 said:


> You've got it made, heater in the workshop. Fancy Swedish chisels. Joints that fit. You posh git.
> 
> Tool collector? me? slightly, I was a tool collector before I was a woodworker really - still its lead to 'better' things. I cant afford the tools I want these days so I generally wood work more, hopefully the economy will improve and I cant return to my real hobby.
> 
> Good progress so far, that would of taken me half a day at least.



Not quite so posh unfortunately, the light and heating have both gone out (vanished behind a cloud!) and I don't think I've got ten bob for the meter :? I know some people who get brilliant tools at car boot sales, but you've gotta be first in-line at the gate.

And the real hobby is?

Thanks for watching and saying hello  

Ross


----------



## RossJarvis

*“Ladies an’ Gennelmen, I’m afraid to say we’re going to have to interrupt the main feature once more, this is due to some unruly elements in the back row of the theatre, we will be sorting this out with some help from the local constabulary and appreciate your patience, Gladys will be coming round with some complimentary Gold Leafs for anyone who would care to partake or she’ll let you have one of her poppets if you ask nicely! She’s that kind of girl. She will not be approaching the rear of the auditorium, as she says she will not be held responsible for her actions if someone else grabs her well-stacked tray. We will be playing a short public information film……”*

Sorry about that, but the concentration wanders. I thought I’d give a couple of handy tips I’ve picked up.

I noticed there was a little bit of damp in the tool-box;





So I thought I’d sort it out before I needed a sledgehammer to separate the tools. Firstly I found an old rag, this is one of my wife’s from the washing basket;





she’s got loads so I’m sure she won’t miss it! Then I got some “Canadian Oil”. I call it “Canadian Oil” because it’s oil……and it comes from Canada;





You can tell it’s Canadian, because the label is in French and English, plus the top 95% is very lightly populated and all the oil seems to be going to the South! I’m sure this stuff is good because when I tried to look up the instructions they said “First, get yourself a C130 Hercules, a compressor and aboot three 55-gallon drums of ACF 50…” I kid you not! Try looking it up!

I then dried out the box with half of the rag (she really won’t miss it, I’m sure. I mean she’s got loads that look just like that hasn’t she?). Dried off all the contents and squirted a few drops of the oil onto the steel parts and tried to make sure every surface was well wiped over. With the block plane I made sure I dismantled it and dried and wiped all the bare surfaces with the oil. (crumbs, I’m gonna have to give that iron a quick swipe over a stone someday soon!). Apparently you don’t need to swamp everything with this, as a small amount goes a long way. The one thing to bear in mind, is if you are going to be working on anything that’s going to be glued, painted, or given a surface treatment, that you will need to clean off the oil with a solvent first. The oil can cause problems when using your tools on those things. You should now have a good oily rag, which you can use on your motorised bicycle, particularly if you leave it outside all year, like wot I do.


When trying to mark in from an edge, say like using a chisel as a guide, and you haven’t got a flat surface to lay the work on, as I am here;





particularly where the edge is relieved, rounded-over,mullered? I found that holding something flat, like the rule I’m using, flush to the surface/edge you’re marking up to, gives you something to rest the chisel against whilst marking your line on the opposite side.


If your workbench is ventilated like mine, being made of boards with gaps on it, don’t leave your chisels lying parallel to the “ventilation gaps”. They may roll off. I find laying them across-ways with the bevel down seems to be an advantage;





otherwise you may find this happens; 





Now then, where did I stick them sharpening stones? I think they’re on top of the freezer in the larder.



I also discovered on my “workbench’ that I hadn’t driven all my fastenings fully home, into their nice countersunk or counter-bored holes;





I’ve a feeling this may possibly mark the bottom (lower face) of anything I’m working on. It seems a good idea to me, to check your work surface before doing anything important on it and best not assume things’ll be all right. So I attempted to remedy this by….. “introducing, Mr Makita”;





“ Dahh Da Dahh da…Mr Makita, he very tough, Mr Makita he very strong, Give him one charge and he lasts all day long…Dah da!” Unfortunately there was an issue with the pointy bit of the screw not quite wanting to go any further, ho-hum. I will admit I thoroughly recommend Mr Makita, well this one anyway. An excellent bit of kit, though you’ll have to sell your wife and apprentice to afford a new one. I’m sure we’ll see him again. If I were to be picky I'd say that the LED "headlights" are in the wrong place. They turn on when you pull the "trigger" and stay on for a bit after you let go, very clever! However, although they illuminate the way ahead reasonably well, the chuck gets in the way so you can't see the end of the "drill-bit" in the dark, or inside kitchen cupboards for that matter. On the other hand it's pretty good at showing the way home from the pub if you don't have street lights, like round here.


*“Ladies n’ Gents, please regain your seats etc……Gladys how are you? are you sure? Can I get you a brown paper bag to breathe into?”*


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":36mzfx9t said:


> I then dried out the box with half of the rag (she really won’t miss it, I’m sure. I mean she’s got loads that look just like that hasn’t she?).



If she says anything, just blame the apprentice :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## RossJarvis

As I said earlier, following advice from the beloved; “Just because you act like a teenager, it still doesn’t mean you should look like one”. I thought I’d better pop into the “workshop” to fix me braces.

So far I’ve somehow managed to make a bundle of sticks into some semblance of a square shape. Any “engineers” amongst you will realise that a “space frame” is not particularly rigid and benefits a lot from “triangulated bracing”, to increase “torsional rigidity”. Braces are also b****y handy to stop you being sent up before the beak for indecent exposure in my experience!

I didn’t do these on the course at Weald and Downland so these are a bit new to me in the mortice and tenon form. I did lap-joint (Hello officer, can you help me out, this gentleman is trying to charge me for leaving this pub. What do you mean what’s my name? I don’t see why you need my name, this man is obviously in the wrong. What do you mean you’ve met my sort before? I’ll have you know I’m a High Court Judge and you b****y well know that, as you were giving evidence in Smith v Regina last week, WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU”RE ARRESTING ME FOR OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE TO AN OFFICER OF THE LAW!) braces, including a couple of dovetail ones in Mk 1. But I really want to do the other sort in this job. The braces will be fairly basic in form as the timber is straight. I’ll leave the curvey ones till later.

First thing, I loosely assembled the frame, face down, on some ceramic “levelling blocks”, which had lain dormant in the “workshop” for some time, one in each corner. Then I levelled the whole lot with pairs of wedges at each corner on the levelling blocks;





For some strange reason there’s a fair bit of “drop” across the floor, but there again I didn’t lay it (If I had we’d probably call it a staircase!). I used the “Short Israeli” for this as the “Big Austrian“ was in a strop. Plus, when I applied the “sash cramps”, it might cause problems having a six-footer lying about. As my cheapie “Carpet Warehouse” cramps are currently in someone else’s stables several miles away, along with my saw-stools, and tool box No 4, I had to improvise. This is probably more in keeping with the “classic style”. The garden twine was not up to the job so I had to use nylon and a few sticks;







 

This seemed to work well, pulling the joints tight(ish);





This is the “Short Israeli”;






I call him that ‘cos he’s shorter than the big Austrian…….and he comes from Israel, he’s pretty bright, modern and fairly well thought out, although the lines in his bubbles are a bit wonky. He also spends a lot of time leaning against walls with the Big Austrian. I’ve off-set him above the frame here ‘cos the sash-cramps were fouling the back face of the frame. I checked that these “offsets” were the same thickness to prevent(ish) errors. Then I eyed up across the timbers for “wind?”, or to check it was all flat as well as level;





Lastly I squared the frame with a "pointy stick";





This is a stick........with a point carved on the end;





The one I am using is a bit flimsy for this size of job (and also happens to be the hardwood peg supply!). But the one I’d made from batten appears to have done a “runner” over night (never should have carved a spoon in the end of it, and I haven’t a clue where one of the dishes has gone either?). If you’re really posh, you carve a point on two sticks and bung ‘em together with a rubber band! To use one of these, you base the assumption that a “squared rectangle” is equal in distance, corner to corner (generally I agree with the Pythagorians here, but I have some sympathy for the pre-Socratics, ‘cos I’ve been to East Anglia and it’s obvious the Earth is flat there, and there’s nothing like an argument between the Greeks, particularly when a lot of retsina’s been taken), However, I digress (and the magistrate said I can’t do that unless my wife agrees).

Ahem, let’s start again. If you’ve got a square shape and want to check all the sides are “square” 90 degrees in each corner, you can check this by measuring diagonally, corner to corner. If this measurement is equal, then the shape is square. Stick the point of your stick into one corner and measure to the diagonal corner, then do the other two corners. If the measurement is the same, then the shape is square. If one measurement is longer than the other, then bash or tap the corner inwards where the length is longest. Keep doing this till the measurement is equal. This only works, if the distance from one side of the shape to the other in both axis is equal………….Oh hang geometry, if you don’t know what I’m talking about by now, you’re as lost as I am, let’s go and do the braces. I just measured the b****y thing to check that the corners were all the same distance apart.

I had made up the length of the braces off the top of my head, when doing the plans earlier. These were based on the Mk 1 model, which seemed to work and I had made ‘cos they looked right. Someone who knows what they’re doing can say if there’s an ideal length for these. I tried to cut these timbers so that there were no knots at the ends as these would make the tenons very weak.

I’d made these about 20 inches long, so stuck ‘em in each top corner, using the “American Carpenter’s Square”, (I call it that ‘cos it was called a carpenter’s square.......and came from America!) to set them at a 45 degree angle;





I wanted to use as much of them as I could, but the most important thing was moving them up and down a bit to ensure that the mortices weren’t going to have knots in either. Once happy with the positions, I checked that they were the same distance from each corner, to be equal. Then I marked their positions on the rear side of the beam and uprights;





And cramped them up;

Having a slightly dry throat after a hard day in the “workshop”, I had a couple of glugs of cider (doesn’t it show). And I think it’s time for bed, so Nighty Night and I’ll see you in the morning.


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":1s6cvuzj said:


> RossJarvis":1s6cvuzj said:
> 
> 
> 
> I then dried out the box with half of the rag (she really won’t miss it, I’m sure. I mean she’s got loads that look just like that hasn’t she?).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If she says anything, just blame the apprentice :lol:
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...


I think we're on the same wavelength here :twisted:


----------



## RossJarvis

In my last post I’d got to the bit where the braces were cramped to the corners, (we could always start an argument now about whether I’d clamped ‘em or cramped ‘em, that’s why I think it’s easier to put a brick on top instead! I started with a pair of “handy clamps”, but I’m not sure now).

I’m noticing that the timber’s started moving about a bit now and it’s got me scratching my head a lot, as to how to cut the joints to minimise the gaps. As it’s a pegged job I can’t use the “cascamite-and-sawdust-inlay system”. Speaking of which, here’s a job I did a few years back, where I think the inlay shows the hand-cut dove-tails to fine advantage!;





I’m sure there’d be a proper way of doing this framing malarky, but as you’re probably aware by now, I’m making this up as I go along! (The labourer down the wood-yard is the only person to notice this, but as his timber selection method is “Now then, I fink them bits at the top of the pile are wot he really wants”, I’m not sure I’d trust his wisdom completely. However, I suppose if I were hefting wood around all day myself, I couldn’t fault his logic. I’ll have to ask him if he’s an Aristotelian or a Boolean next time I’m down there!)

Enough digression (I told you love, it’s my gress not yours!).

Having marked the rear of the frames for the positions of where the braces would be, I used the square to mark down onto the “inside” of post and beam, for the end of the mortices. I tried to mark under the braces for the “shoulders” of the tenons, but this was tricky as it’s all so close to the floor and tried to square up the sides of the braces. I don’t think using the square was ideal here, I would suppose using a chalked plumb line would be better, particularly if it was much bigger. I’m having difficulty remembering which bits should be “scribed” and which bits would be “plumb(ed)”. Anyway, it’ll all come out in the wash, I’m hoping a little bit of wooden “shim” and a plane will cover up some of the bigger mistakes. (I’ll park a chair in front of the biggest mistakes!).

I then compared one brace to the other, to see if they were similar enough to be right. Doing this helped me notice the slight “mistake”, that when setting them out, I’d measured down from the top of the frame for one brace and the inside of the frame for the other!!! Luckily as I hadn’t applied the saw, I could fix that with a rubber and a new scribble, luckily I had a rubber in the tool box (strangely enough my big brother always carried his in his wallet, he says if you put it there you wouldn’t make mistakes! I really should’ve listened to his advice when I was younger!). This is comparing the two braces after I’d re-scribbled;






You might notice that there’s about ½ inch difference between the two. This could be down to the irregularities in the wood, or probably I’ve just cacked up again. As it is, they’re nearly six foot apart so who’s going to notice? It’ll only be ¼” when they’re in place anyway.

Nextly; Cutting the tenons. Due to the angle of the brace, I found there was a lot of wood to rip through, but I only needed to come in from one side as the shoulders were at 45%. Here I found the sawing was getting hard, possibly because the “grain” was curling the wood in, but I dare say that I might not have a good technique yet!; Anyway, I had a bright idea, so I popped in, found the wife’s best candle and rubbed it all over the blade;





This seemed to do the trick as the sawing got easier. You’ll probably need to use the missus’ best candle as I’m sure the wax’ll be better! She won’t mind surely? I think, if your blade is straight and you know what you’re doing you won’t need the wax. Plus, if you’re going to be gluing the tenons, the wax would cause a lot of problems. Luckily, I’m going to be using pegs, and the wax’ll help waterproof the joint!!! 

Et Veolia (as the Bin-men say in France); two part-finished braces;





I used to think you’d cut the mortices into the posts at 45 degrees for braces, but apparently not, it’s probably too fiddly and not necessary, plus I think you’d never get the thing together during assembly. I’m hoping I’ve got this next bit right. I marked the tenon, back 45 degrees on the longest edge of the brace;





….and chopped the end off (too late to go back now!). This should mean that the tenon will slide in square to the face of the beam/post. Then I laid them out on the posts with the LI just to see what other mistakes I’d made;





So far so good, but looking at the twist I’d cut in the Tenon!!! You’d think I was a “prop-maker” for Sopwiths. Never mind, a sharp chisel and wooden-shim’ll sort that out.

If you chop the mortice full depth along its length, there’ll be a big gap inside the mortice when the joint’s done up, so if you’re handy with a chisel I’m sure you could cut one end of the mortice at 45 degrees. Personally I think Father O’Reilly might need somewhere to hide his Bushmills when his mates pop round and he might need somewhere for his mates if the “roundheads” come round, so I’ve left some big “holes”! I might try something different on the back frame.

Next I BRRR-GRAUNCH-WHIRRED the mortices, shaved their edges, popped the braces in the holes, marked the depth of the tenons, sawed a bit more kindling off and “Hey Presto” (I think Presto became Safeway actually!);













Job Done!! I’ll not make you jealous by showing you close-ups of the braces and how flush they are to the front face……still, nothing that a quick wipe across with a plane won’t settle!!!

See you later, I’ve been blathering on when I should be drilling some holes for the pegs today!!!

Oh look! The apprentice has popped round for a hob-nob or two; look at him, lying down on the job, as usual;





This is when I’d just told him “look Sonny, none of your cheek! I’ve forgotten more about carpentry than you’ll ever know”. “Izzat so gran’dad I wish you’d remembered some of it when you was tryin’ to teach me!!!” he said back. I don’t know, the Yoof of today eh!!

We were never like that, were we?


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":mwevhce7 said:


> I don’t know, the Yoof of today eh!!



Tell him if he doesn't get his hair cut he might find himself being used to wipe the excess glue off your joints :twisted: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## richard56

Is the apprentice on treble time today?


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":lutzxiwm said:


> RossJarvis":lutzxiwm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don’t know, the Yoof of today eh!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tell him if he doesn't get his hair cut he might find himself being used to wipe the excess glue off your joints :twisted:
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...


    Thanks Paul, you have just given me such a wicked idea :twisted:


----------



## devonwoody

Hi. do you use voice recognition to do your typed reports or have you have a lovely secretary? :wink: :wink: :wink:


----------



## RossJarvis

devonwoody":1h6gojcb said:


> Hi. do you use voice recognition to do your typed reports or have you have a lovely secretary? :wink: :wink: :wink:



Hiya Devonwoody  

I actually have two typists, one on each hand! :lol: 

Ross


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":2bxtb09o said:


> Is the apprentice on treble time today?



Treble time, eek!! I'd end up paying hime more than a pound if he was on treble time! Speaking of which, he does have a little purse for his "pocket money", since that time we took him to the vets!


----------



## richard56

How is it going?
I hope all is well
Rich


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":1dmmwnaq said:


> How is it going?
> I hope all is well
> Rich



Thanks for you concern Rich.  

I had a couple of days out as I had to prepare for a meeting with the "headmistress" at work  , and definitely had to have a good "lie down". after that. Am hoping to drill the holes for the pegs today and then see how far I get with the rear frame.

Once again, thanks for asking.  

Ross


----------



## devonwoody

And how many mistresses do you have? :wink:


----------



## RossJarvis

devonwoody":24fl3ksx said:


> And how many mistresses do you have? :wink:



Shhh, shhh, the missus's sitting next to me on the sofa :lol: 

The only one she knows about is the motorbike  

I've drilled some holes (hammer) , so normal service will resume in a few minutes. I hope you're sitting comfortably.


----------



## RossJarvis

Hello again chappies and chappesses. After a small delay, I have been back out in the “workshop” playing havoc to some “ex trees” (this tree’s not dead, he’s merely having a rest”).

This morning’s task was to drill some holes on the mortice wotsits for when I peg the thing together. The first thing I did was make a cuppa and sit down to think about it, this is the hardest bit of the job. Any chippies here will know that you usually get shouted at when doing this hardest part of the job.

The mortices are “blind/stopped?”, well they don’t come out the other side of the wood (that’s the theory at least!). And When pegging joints I think there’s the chance that when “tightened up”, you can pull the end grain out of the tenon, or tear the grain sideways out of either side of the hol…mortice. I decided that I’d put the hole through halfway down the tenon, which means it’ll be nearer the “join” side of the timber that the mortice is in. I believe in large oak buildings, that the peg-holes can be a lot closer to the join, though someone who knows what they’re doing can chip in to clarify that. Here’s me measuring the length of the tenon;





You can see I’m using proper measurements here, very easy to “halve” for the position of the hole, (some Frenchman’s scribbled some nonsense on the other side of this rule!). Then I’m marking the “halved” distance on the side of the mortice piece;





To get the position of the hole right, I’ve marked the end of a tenon at its midpoint to use as a template;



.

Once I’d marked all the “right angle” mortice and tenons, It was time to make some chips ‘n’ dust. The joints for the angle braces are going to need at least one more cup of tea to think about. I was going to try out the spare chuck on the morticer to see how well it works out as a bench drill. This is the spare chuck and what they call a taper drift (I still call something else a taper-drift so I’ll call this the bit-of-metal-stick-wot-the-chuck-goes-on );




This is “tapped together” with a stick, remembering to retract the jaws on the chuck so as not to damage them, then I stuck it up into the chuck wot is inside the morticer;





This is where I realised you need to take the holdy-down-the-wood-footy-thing off the fence, otherwise the chuck would hit it. Then I realised my drill was a bit long and I had little clearance for the wood to fit under it!





So I had to turf Mr Makita out of his “caravan” and rummaged around to see if I had a shorter one hanging around in there. Now for a couple of piccies to add to my review of the morticer:

Handy thingy for holding on to the chuck key (wish they had one for the Allen Key!);





Any foundry-men/women will like to see the quality of the castings;









I do believe that’s been gravel-cast, not sand-cast! This is the clearance I got with 2” timber, and a bit of batten, with an 8mm drill stuffed as far up Jacob’s chuck as I could get it!





A bit tight, but hey ho! I put a bit of batten under the timber to save the “foot-plate” of the machine (that’s what they called it) and wedged a spare bit of wood into the mortice, that I had cut off the side of a tenon (ooh what a cheek sir!), hopefully this would prevent the drill tearing out the wood on its way through;




Now all I needed to do was connect up the smoke to the motor, BBRRR GRRR WHIZZ and Hey Presto (I think Safeway became Morrisons after that) holes in wood;










The next bit was doing the holes for the brace mortices. I’m telling you, this took at least three cuppas to work out! As the tenons on the mortices were at all sorts of angles, I knew the hole shouldn’t be halfway along the side of the mortices, but nearer one end, otherwise it would be somewhere stupid in the tenon. So I thought it better to put it on the mid-line of the tenon;





Once I’d seen it there I put this on the top of the timber with the mortice in it;





….and this helped me how to work out how to mark it out. I squared up from the mid-line of the mortice;





And then used the 45degree wotsit on the “American Carpenters Square”, to mark along in the direction that the brace would come in at. Here you can see where the hole’s to be drilled, much closer to one end of the mortice than you might think. (the edges of the mortice are marked “square” across the timbers here);





PS. If you’re thinking of using a “clicky” modern propelling pencil for marking wood, like I’m doing, don’t. Get a proper pencil instead!

WHIZZ BRRR OUCH! Job done;





I’m just gonna have some lunch and then work out how to do the holes in the tenons, this’ll be a three cuppa job at the very least!


----------



## RossJarvis

Here I am, back again (like the proverbial penny).

I had considered drilling the tenons the proper way, by sticking them in the mortices, marking down through the holes in the mortices and then drilling slightly off-set toward the tenon “shoulder”. This would tighten the joint up. However, I really couldn’t be a***d so I did it a bit bodgy and quick(ish).

First job was to re-assemble the frame, level and check for flat and square, whilst applying the bits of string to tighten it all up;






For the life of me I couldn’t get it to square up… I’m not sure why, possibly mis-cut tenon shoulders, or sideways-gravity, or the braces the wrong way round. But no matter how much bashing with a mallet, it was still off-square, I even swapped the braces around, but no luck. If I loosened the stringy things (two boat-builder friends have informed me that these are “Spanish Windlasses”, however, as these are bearded boat-builders [We used to call ‘em pirates in my day!] I couldn’t guarantee they’d know the difference between windlass and cutlass, particularly when some Pussers has been drunk!) it was all too loose so I had to get some powerful thinking drink out;





This is the only recourse when the tea has failed to work! A glug or two of Girrrrder juice later and BINGO! Another Spanish Windless! As I’d run out of nylon string I had to find summat else, so;





A bit of electric string! It’ll make the electrons giddy next time I hoover the lawn, but you can’t have everything. I tightened the long diagonal till the job was square;





The joints sort of looked as tight as they’d go so, “re-introdusing….Daa Da Daa Da Da….Mr Makita he very Tough….Mr Makita he very Strong…Mr Makita give him one charge….And he will work the whole day Long…Daa Da Daaa”. 





(If anyone’s wondering whether I am paid for any endorsements, no I am not! However I am open to any offers!). As I said I quite like this drill, even if the headlights are pointless. One good thing I like is that he stands on his own foot quite easily;





I drilled through the mortice holes and then realised I should have come through from the front face, tearing any wood on the non-to-be-looked-at side. The pre-drilled holes seemed to be good enough to guide the drill through straight(ish). Once all the holes had been done I started cutting and sharpening the pegs;





These I made 2 ½” long (okay, everyone but the first, wot was a tad too short), then I bashed ‘em through with the hitting-stick, using a proper wooden carpenter’s hitting-stick and not a “Birmingham Screwdriver”. Et Violet (as the gardeners say in France);









Once again I came in the wrong way round (hit em in from the front, not the back you plo***r!), tearing a bit more wood out the “pretty side”;





Still, nuffink a damp rag and a 700Watt planer can’t sort out. So, up to a point, frame number 1 is done;




All I’ve got to do now is; frame two (I’ll see if I can do that properly), tie them together, floor it and bung a roof on, can’t take long surely?

Remember that tight lap-joint (Yes M’Lud, I was proceeding in a Northerly direction past the “Double-mint Hippo….)? Well, I done an’ split me lower beam!!!;





Nothing a bit of glue and cramps can’t sort, but I was well pleased with that joint too. I think the joints don’t need to be as tight as I’ve made them, not with all the fitting and re-fitting I’m doing and the bashing with the stick!!


----------



## Woodchips2

You've earned another glug of IrnBru (hammer) 

I've read recently that loose joints with plenty of glue are stronger than tight joints where you have difficulty in getting much glue in.

Regards Keith


----------



## Paul Chapman

And where was the apprentice while all this was going on? Not taken another day off sick, has he?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## RossJarvis

The Eriba Turner":1siwdai0 said:


> You've earned another glug of IrnBru (hammer)
> 
> I've read recently that loose joints with plenty of glue are stronger than tight joints where you have difficulty in getting much glue in.
> 
> Regards Keith



Thanks Keith. I seem to remember the "tight joint" method being taught to me, but that would explain a lot. I've tried to glue up a stripped pine door in our house, where the rails are slipping out of the stiles, to no avail. 

Ross


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":3tkbj83p said:


> And where was the apprentice while all this was going on? Not taken another day off sick, has he?
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Ah, strangely enough, following your earlier advice  , he did a runner when I got the glue bottle out! :lol: 

Please give more advice


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":zitc08xz said:


> Please give more advice



I'd advise him to keep running.... :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## No skills

Excellent work.

I must say your not inspiring me to go and get my morticer out of its box  in fact when it does see the light of day I might re-purpose it.

Didn't know they still made Irn Bru, a blast from the past no less.


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":14bt3wle said:


> RossJarvis":14bt3wle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please give more advice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd advise him to keep running.... :lol:
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":xqpq32f7 said:


> Excellent work.
> 
> I must say your not inspiring me to go and get my morticer out of its box  in fact when it does see the light of day I might re-purpose it.
> 
> Didn't know they still made Irn Bru, a blast from the past no less.



Apparently Irn Bru is very big in ex-communist countries, Russia, Scotland......... :twisted: 

Although there's a few things to niggle about with the morticer, it is doing the job, and with use, it's easing up. I don't think it's at all bad for the money. Be wary of its limitations and it could serve well.


----------



## RossJarvis

Hello dearly beloved. Been out in the “workshop” again. I was a bit concerned that my pace has been a bit slow, so I did a wee “time and motion study”. Now that I don’t have to do as much thinking as when making the first frame, cos I did it then. For the second frame I’ve decided to do a bit more work between cups of tea, so now for every cuppa I’ll cut two or more joints instead of one!

Firstly, following the handy tip from Andy T I’m going to mark up the timbers cramped together, squaring the ends up;





Marking across, using frame one for positions;









Marking back from the other ends, using the shortest timber to set the “height of the frame;





“Uh Oh”. Look who’s turned up, it’s the apprentice again, he’s been lying low most of the week. He asked if he could come to the pub Sunday night, as he knew the dark haired girl who’s just moved in next door was going to be there. I think he had too many shandies! Here he was asking me where all the hob-nobs have gone? “you scoffed em all last week ya little Nerk!” said I in my usual polite style. “Well you’d better buy some more granddad” says he. So I told him to get a shopping bag and I’d give him a couple of quid for some more. 





We’ve had to get him his own bag, as he always leaves ours down the Co-op;





“An’ I want you to come straight back, no blinking dawdling!” As I’ve said before, you trades-people know just what they’re like!

Here’s the long bits cramped up and being marked out;





Here’s me cutting three tenon shoulders in one go, told you I’d done a time and motion study!;





And this shows you how blinking hard the morticer gets stuck in the wood;





Any way time to get on, TTFN!


----------



## RossJarvis

Well then, looks like the time and motion’s worked. Now have two frames in the “workshop”;









Took a number of shortcuts and I think I’m getting some idea about tenons and stuff. First frame took 6 days, this one 1 day.

The b****y apprentice got back from the Co-op; six sausage rolls and a packet of cheese in the bag, no blinking hob-nobs. “Sold out innit!” says he through a mouthful of crumbs!!!!


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":1pp70rt2 said:


> The b****y apprentice got back from the Co-op; six sausage rolls and a packet of cheese in the bag, no blinking hob-nobs. “Sold out innit!” says he through a mouthful of crumbs!!!!



He's a bit of a chancer if you ask me........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## No skills

I think you should bin that morticer and get one of those Festival Dummyno's. Not tried one myself but I've been told you just point it at the two bits of timber you want to join and it does the rest. Sposed to be pricey tho, might have to sell your house.

Screws are of course another option.


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":3pnr9clv said:


> I think you should bin that morticer and get one of those Festival Dummyno's. Not tried one myself but I've been told you just point it at the two bits of timber you want to join and it does the rest. Sposed to be pricey tho, might have to sell your house.
> 
> Screws are of course another option.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Screws are brilliant, bash 'em in with an 'ammer, take 'em out with a screwdriver. Had considered a biscuiter, but the apprentice would scoff the lot!!

Dunno about the Dummyno's, I can never get the dots to match up.

Cheers No skills


----------



## RossJarvis

Mornin’ all. Anyone out there? Remember to say hello every now an’ again, it’s a bit lonely out in t’ workshop, and the apprentice don’t talk much.

This morning I thought it about time to do something to hold the frames together, so “ZZd ZZe ZZD ZZe, Ouch, B****r” and before you knew it I’d made these;





…..And had some old scrap left over;






The idea is to have some wood under the floor (joists?) to hold the floor down, plus some wood up the sides (tie beams?) to hold the back to the front. If you look carefully at the picture above, you can see I’ve carefully cut some tenons vertical and some horizontal, near did me back in lying on the floor cutting the horizontal ones!

I clamped the timbers together in fours, (cheers AndyT!) and marked them out together in the hope they’d all be the same length after attacking with a saw. I put an arrow on to help me remember which way round they were and which face was out, or up (mind you I’m blowed if I can remember which way it’s supposed to point now, I’ll have to revert to writing instructions to me’sen);





Then I tried cutting four tenon shoulders together;





Realised the little saw wasn’t up to it so got a bigger saw;






Then realised it really was going to go t**s up at sometime, so decided to cut the rest one at a time. Not sure about this modern industrialised assembly line lark, don’t think it’ll catch on. Then the apprentice popped out for a nose around, decided to “pressure-treat” the wood pile and you just won’t believe what he did on the green carpet at the end of the workshop!!!

Took about three hours of hard tea-break to do that little lot! I’ve got even more efficient, one cup of tea lasts about two beams now.

*“Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to the Astoria, before the main feature we will have a quick word from our sponsors………Gladys, why are you running around shouting “Minorcas, Minorcas” Minorca is singular, it’s Balearic which is plural. Oh I see. Oi you lot in the back row, I told you last week….”*

If you’re interested in timber-framing the old fashioned way, I did a course at the Weald and Downland museum, it weren’t cheap for five days, but was a brilliant time. There were blokes of all different ages and backgrounds (ladies are welcome too!) and it was great working together and getting to know each other, as well as learning how to hurt yourself on a b****y great chisel or two. I don’t know if these courses are still running, but ours was led by a chappie called Joe Thompson, you couldn’t hope to meet a nicer chap. (as I’ve said before, I’m not affiliated to or paid for these plugs, but I am still open to any offers).

*“We will now be starting tonight’s main feature please take your seats…..I meant sit down! not take the flippin’ things out the fire exit….”*


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":1a605z5q said:


> Then the apprentice popped out for a nose around, decided to “pressure-treat” the wood pile and you just won’t believe what he did on the green carpet at the end of the workshop!!!



He's taking the p*ss now :shock: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## RossJarvis

It’s approaching evening so I’ve downed tools ready for the weekend. Friday is steak chips and a glass of wine night. After this week’s work I think I’ll make that two glasses!

Where was we, oh yes, tenoning (is that a word?). My evening class teacher said “let the saw do the work, don’t force it”, so I sat there for ages, and the b****y saw did nowt, just like the apprentice. So I had to get up and do the work myself! I’ve got one side of my body like Popeye now and the other like Olive Oyle.

Meanwhile, back on topic I was going to start marking out the mortices for the joists and tie beams. So I lined the two frames up to see which way round they ought to be. The first shot shows where the feet are together but everything else is on the p*** (at an angle);





….the next shows both frames matching near perfick like;





…obviously that was all intended and “ahem!” we need not worry about the whole thing leaning slightly to one side. It’s well within spec! Once both frames were levelled and matched together, I marked out the positions of the mortices. These were set about an inch from nearby mortices or tenons, to leave some strength in the wood;









…and to make sure I didn’t b****r it up next time, I marked the rear frame to know which way round it ought to go;





I find writing instructions all over the wood is better than doing it on paper, it’s generally harder to lose the wood than paper! I also marked the side of the line I needed to mark the mortices and which side of the timber needed the hole cut in it;





This was ‘cos the faces for the mortices were the ones clamped together. I then marked the mortices out and found an old bit of tenon waste was handy to mark the width out with;





Although, this being carcassing, no two bits of wood are the same thickness! BRRR WHIZZ WOOF OUCH and here we are, one end of the wood fitted to the other bits of wood. There is an issue about the other ends but we’ll leave that for now shall we.;





I could now do the braces for the floor. These could have been done at 45 degrees like the others, but me back were killing me so I just bunged ‘em in any old how. No-one’s going to care, they’re going to be boarded over anyway!





I’m sure, as long as the joist is at 90(ish) degrees, we’ll all be happy. BANG, CHOP, WHIRR, TWEET, OUCH and;





…the pile of sticks is starting to look like something at last here’s it with the other frame dumped on top;





I’m quite pleased with that, particularly the floor;





…even though it’s pretending to be a stud wall at the mo. Mind you, last time I was pleased with something, it broke! We’ll have to see what the morrow brings.

TTFN


----------



## RossJarvis

Being a bit anal, like, I just went out and counted the mortices and tenons, 38 so far! Only 6 more to go if my calculations are correct, so who knows how many there'll be! I think I've chopped out more wood than I've left!


----------



## RossJarvis

Crumbs, I’m finally getting somewhere at last. Last time we saw each other I’d got the back frame lying down with some tie beams and joists sticking out of it. All I needed to do was make some mortices in the front frame and fit the tenons to the mortices (oh and make two braces). This time I thought I’d trim the tenon ends of the braces before cutting the tenons;





I’m not sure if that saved me any time but who knows? Next I fitted the tenons to the mortices. I did this by laying the tenon piece on the mortice piece with the edges flush;





And using the chisel I could mark if any of the tenon was wider than the mortice. You might be able to see that the tenon and mortice are slightly off centre, due to the way I’m using a chisel thickness to mark in from one common edge. Then all I needed to do was shave (pare?) the bit of the tenon which was too thick. This was slightly more planned than previous attempts, where I just made the wood fit in the hole. Doing that didn’t help the edges of the wood lie flush.

Next thing was to square up the braced tie beam. So I popped this in its hole with the brace;





And checked for square (with a square!). Here you may see a gap. By now I was starting to realise there were a number of ways to fiddle these things in, trimming the tenon shoulders, moving the hole one way or the other, or, in this instance I trimmed the end/edge/whatever of the tenon to shift it sideways in the hole;





All I needed to do now was make the mortices in the front frame pieces. However some of you may remember that I thought I’d be clever and peg it all together. This left me two choices; a, put the morticer on the floor, under the frame and cut the holes, or b, take it all apart again. Neither choice seemed particularly effortless, however I did go for b, using;





….a de-framing hammer and a de-framing nail. Put the flat end of the nail on the end of your peg and bash the pointy end with the hammer! A few thumbs later (lucky I’ve got a good supply of them!), I realised that if I held the nail with some pliers, my thumb supply would last longer. BBBRRRR WHHHIZZ SHIMM SHIMM and look, I’ve got a big pile of sticks again;





The problem with the traditional framing style, is that you start off with a pile of sticks, offer them up to each other, trim a bit here and there, fit ‘em together and then you take it apart again. This goes on for b****y ages. Essentially you build the whole thing a bit at a time about 70 times over again. Oh and look who came out for a hard afternoons sunbathing;





If I had half a mind I’d stop paying the little blighter! Anyway, he did offer to give a hand putting it together….and then fell asleep;





So I had to do it me-sen (as they say in Sheffield). First off, get the back frame laid out and pegged up (or is it laid up and pegged out?);





Then add some joining-together sticks;





Which is nearly exactly where I was 6 hours of hard work earlier! And then bung the front frame on;





…and hey hum, Robert’s yer fathers brother, job done! One made up timber frame log store (nearly);









Or I suppose it could be one bizarrely naked Welsh Dresser! And here’s one of the last views of a nicely braced floor before the boards go on;






Crumbs (again), I’m absolutely knackered and there’s salt stains all over me polo shirt. Bring on the morrow and I may have actually nearly finished this job (I seem to remember thinking that this time last week!)

TTFN


----------



## Paul Chapman

RossJarvis":2ewngela said:


> Anyway, he did offer to give a hand putting it together….and then fell asleep;



All that running the other day must have tired out the poor bloke :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## RossJarvis

Ooh, Ow, Eek, Me Back. Absolutely shattered for some reason. It’s been one of those days where I seem to have been doing stuff all day, I’m worn out, yet nothing much seems to have got done, and what was done seems very unsatisfactory. Ever had one of those days yourself?

First thing I thought I needed to sharpen the big Swede (chisel), as he’d seemed to be getting a bit blunt yesterday, so I might as well do the block plane iron too. Out with the stones and, ooh, they do seem a bit curvilicious and not particularly flat. So on with flattening stones, several-teen hours later there’s a ton of grit in me sink (with last nights washing up!) and two possibly, or possibly not, bits of sharp metal. Then out to the “workshop” and what shall I do now? Hmm, let’s get rid of some o’ them pegs shall we, so lets find the pull saw;





I’m presuming it had a few more teeth when I bought it! (I also believe the blade may have been straight too, not quite so S shape!) Anyway, ZZZZd ZZZe and off popped the peg ends;





…and the large Swede (Rutabagan!) seemed to be up to a bit of paring down;





Then I came back to an earlier idea about making some of the adjoining timbers a bit flusher, plus dealing with the slight (ahem) surface imperfections. This is where I think it all started going downhill at a greater rate of acceleration;





….Let’s concede to modernity shall we! Put a big motor on summat and see what we can do. B******s it all up is what we can B****y well do matey! SSSSSSKKKRRRREEEEEEEE VVVVRRRRRIIPPP, large amounts of shavings everywhere (you should see the state of the apprentice’s A**e where he’s been sitting down all day) and a complete B******s of a surface finish everywhere;









And that’s after I’ve tried tidying up with a proper plane and the big Swede! I imagine there was a good reason for buying that thing and I’m sure it’s been of some use at some stage, but generally I’ve never been satisfied with how it sounds, the blinking cable always getting snagged, or the finish. It’s okay for getting rid of wood quickly, but you’ve always got to get a proper plane out to make stuff look nice. Plus, it’s terrifyingly easy to go wrong too quick.

Nextly, putting in the floor. I bunged a board down and “hey ho”, looky here the boards bent;





I don’t know if you can see, but the end of the board is about ½” away from the far post when the middle is touching, the near end is ½” out from the post too. Not a problem, if I mark in the same distance from the posts, I can cut some notches in and it’ll all be right. Did one side and put a board in the other side and blow me, another bent board. I know I’ll turn it round and the bend might be the right way round! Ah! Ummm, It appears the boards are actually straight and the log store’s bent. Hey ho, worse things happen at sea (so the boat builders tell me, which is why they never leave dry land!). Measure in the same distance from the posts, knock out some square holes and bamm! It fits. Time to revert to modernity again;





..I’mm at that point where I don’t care how a traditional floor was laid, this one’s going to be nailed down with them twisty nail things what get turned into the wood. On with the handy doo dah, which drills and countersinks in one go!;




…or to be slightly more precise, breaks your drill and doesn’t countersink in one go (I have two sets of these, Screwfix and Disston, they both work (not) the same way). WHHHIIIRRR JJGGG JGGGGG, and here we have it, one floor;





There were bits of board sticking out each end, so I had a clever idea, cut them after they’re fixed and you’ll have nice even flush ends;





….B******s I will, I’ll have a lot of scrappy chunked out bits of wood and cuts all over the ends of me log store. However, in with the Bosch and;





Moderately, slightly less bad ends! Humdy Ho, Thought I might have had the roof on and job finished today. Let’s see what tomorrow brings shall we? See you later!


----------



## devonwoody

I don't like the platform position at each end laying underneath the cross pieces, I think I would start again. (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)


----------



## RossJarvis

devonwoody":1tc9xkbl said:


> I don't like the platform position at each end laying underneath the cross pieces, I think I would start again. (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)



Aha, you've seen the special design feature :lol: . This prevents the floor boards flying off into the air, or falling down if the store is exported to Australia


----------



## RossJarvis

Phweeweee! It was very hot today so I took a small break at about 2:00 and then popped out at 6:00 to put everything away. So not a massive deal has been done but at least the rafters for the roof are now underway, even if none have been cut yet! In fact it was so hot, this is the sum total of action from the apprentice;





“Ooh wot’s’is then”





…”looks a bit of orl right this gaff, I can see meself movin’ in when it’s finished”;





….”Yeah, (Yawn) very cumfy, I think I’ll just have a quick lie down, zzzzzzzzz!”

..And as I say, that was him for the rest of the day, didn’t even want to go out and get Hob-nobs!

I’d been wondering about the end rafters (there’s probably a proper word for them, something to do with eaves or what-ever). I’d never really been sure about the first lot I did;





They were 3” by ¾” board, laid on their side, with sort of bird’s mouths cut into them. The principle seems okayish (yes, you don’t need to remind me rafters should only be cut into 1/3 of the way, I do remember something from night school!). But the bare beam ends seemed a bit clumsy. I had thought of cutting into the beam ends and laying the end rafters onto the posts, but this would cut into where the mortice and tenon was, and the post could “pop’ out the end of the beam. Or I could just screw the board onto the edge of the posts, but there would only be enough room for two screws and I thought this would be weak. Plus you would see two, non-traditional posi-drive Screwfix screws. So after a number of cups of tea I decided to put a rafter down the ends, made from 2” x 2” and see if I could stick a board on the end next to it. First, clamp a bit of batten on the end to support a bit of wood;





The top of the batten is in-line with the top rear corner of each post. Then stick a bit of 2 x 2 on this and mark the top of the post;









After this, I clamped the bit of wood up so that the lines for the “birds mouth” were vertical and apply some damage;





…I know it looks like the saw is “doing the work itself”, but believe me, I’ve tried forcing and not-forcing saws, they never do the work themselves. And after a bit of faffing and paring, voila, one rafter (sort of);





Once this was in place I could lay up the board next to it and a bit of batten on top. The batten was to raise the height of the “rafter” to the top of the board, so that this could take the weight of the roof, not the end board (barge-board?);





That photo actually had me trying to be clever with some other jiggery pokery, but hopefully you get the idea. Next thing was screwing the “barge board?” to the rafter, I could get more screws in now, but the screw heads would look ugly, but suddenly “bing” (light bulb goes on over my head). What if I screw in from the inside, with the pointy bit inside the board, that’ll do the trick. However I realised, out of what remains of my 3000 odd screws, all the sizes were just wrong. Either they’d stick out of the board (ouch), or not go far enough into it to hold;





So I’d need to counter-bore the hole. I could use the counter-bore wotsits, but as mentioned earlier, they don’t, well not in this type of wood anyway. So I counterbored with a big and little drill, using the “piece of masking tape round the drill” method for depth control and there we were, nice counter-bored screws. (no-one’ll see ‘em anyway!);






Resulting in a bit of wood screwed to another bit of wood screwed to some more wood;









Do that again and..lots of wood stuck together. Next thing was putting the middle rafters in. I had though about setting them into the beams (wall plates?) somehow, not just resting them on the beams (plates) with “birds mouths”. Apparently there was a traditional method of angled housings/slots what-ever, but I decided to just do some straight slots/lap-joints (“So, the accused says he wandered into Double-mint Hippo, under the apprehension it was a pub?” “Yes M’Lud” “Look Michael, we both went to the same school, You should know the ‘pubs’ on Fetter lane are not for the likes of us, you really should try ‘Ooh Lah Whiplash’ on Chancery Lane”) Cutting in for the joints;





Now I’d have to go get another chisel as these were 1” joints, so off for the Medium Swede, which is 25mm, so not right but close enough. However, although being somewhat sharp, t’was not sharp enough so off to the “grinding station”, only to discover what happens if you leave your nice Japanese Whet-stones wet for too long;





Hmm, Crumbs, crumbs! There seems to be lots of conflicting advice about these (strangely enough), I’d suggest either drying and refacing them every time you use them, or, buying new chisels every time you need to make summat! Shimm shimm shimm and a bit of assault and battery to some wood. I found I was still not getting great joints as this wood chunks out a lot, so I got a 1” (25mm) spade bit and used a motor to remove a lot of it first, the finish seemed to end up better that way;









Now it was time to start marking out the middle rafters so, line them up so the top end is above the back face of the store;





….mark out which one is which and where the birds mouth’s going to be;





And then stick ‘em in, temporary like, with wedges;





And that’s as far as I got in about 4 hours. For whatever reason, it knackered me out. Oh and then the apprentice woke up. “wotsat, who’s er, ah, got any Hob-nobs?”


----------



## RossJarvis

Somebody somewhere, I think, and it wasn't Devonwoody, definitely some-one else, was wondering about the floor being "suspended' at each end, screwed into the bottom of the side "tie-beams".
The "floor", is actually on four joists. The end joists are 1" in from the posts. There are two "tie-beams" 1" up from the position of the joists on the end posts. So the floor is actually on a joist and wedged under the tie-beams on the sides, as it's 1" boards. Very well wedged! I had to knock 'em in sideways with the "big wooden hitting stick". They aint going nowhere in a hurry, screws or no screws. The only screws are two each end on the boards to keep them from shifting "fore or aft" or "athwarships". Not sure how clear the following are but they show the arrangement.









In fact, the structure doesn't really need the lower tie-beams at the sides, but they act as stops to stop the bottom logs rolling out the sides, plus I think it might look odd without them. The thing is, all the joists and two angle braces are mainly hidden under the boards.


----------



## richard56

It's coming along nicely.
Rich


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":ve74qzjo said:


> It's coming along nicely.
> Rich



Thanks Rich


----------



## Woodchips2

What cost most, the wood or the Hob Nobs for the apprentice?

Regards Keith


----------



## RossJarvis

In normal circumstances it would be a close thing, particularly bearing in mind the apprentice's appetite for Hob-nobs :-& , however, as we went to a retailer with the initials TP, the wood has cost more 8-[ :-k . At least 6 months worth of Hob-nobs!

Speaking of which, I realised I under-catered on the batten and feather board for shingles, the price just goes higher :-$


----------



## RossJarvis

Phewee, two days work to write up. We had friends round for tea last night, jolly tasty they were too! But it’s put me a day behind keeping updated.

I think last time I’d put the end-rafters on and cut slots for the normal rafters, but not cut in the birds mouths. So, with all the rafters in place, I strapped The Big Austrian across the rafters;





…and measured the drop to the end boards;





I could then mark up the rafter and squared back;





I could then cut out the birds mouths;





These boards were “waney edged” I think it’s called, with bark along the edges on one side;





Then I could start putting the rafters in;




I found one was a little out;





..so I recut the other birds mouth;





And then they were all in;





I wanted to mark out the front edge of the roof, so set the distance from the top of the end rafters, in multiples of 3 inches to where the front looked okay, I used the 3 inch measure as the “shingles” were 6”. I cut a kerf in the rafter to slot the tape in;





Then I could clamp up The Big Austrian to mark out the ends of each rafter to get a good straight line;





Then I squared down for the rafter ends and marked out the “bottom” of the rafter, on one, to use as a template;









Then a bit of ZZZd ZZZe ZZZd ZZZe;





And then I could cut the end rafter from the template, I also cut away some of the internal support, so it wouldn’t be seen so easily;





..and before we knew it, a bunch of rafters;





Some how, all my slots were a wee bit wider than necessary, so I cut some mini-wedges;





to wedge the doo-dahs;





….and then bashed some nails in to hold them down;





And then I could put the first three battens on;





The first two were on edge and the third was flat, this was to take account of the front row of shingles not having another shingle to rest on. I used a rule to mark a straight line from the top of the front batten down to the third;





…..then apply the noisy blue machine to get a smooth planed line (not);





We’ll not get too worried about that, let’s just put some more battens on shall we;





…and then we’ll cut up some shingles;





I placed the shingles on the front battens, starting on a centre(ish) line, with a ¼” overhang, drilled holes for two nails at the top (to prevent splitting) and DDDRRRRRLLL, Bang;





I also pinned the front of the shingles down to prevent movement. These pins are just plain steel wire, so will rust out in time;





and voila, two rows of shingles;









That was yesterday, and today ZZZd ZZZe ZZd ZZe, BANG BANG BASH;





A finished log store! I must say I’m well chuffed with the result (and even more chuffed with some of the jokes I’ve come up with along the way). I generally enjoyed doing this and felt working in the garden, with only a bit of staging for a workbench was quite liberating. I’ve learnt a lot and had some good repartee with people on this site. I hope you enjoyed watching and had as much fun as I did.

Here’s a few details;





































Here’s what’s left of the £150 of wood;





And here it is gone;





Thanks for watching and thanks for all the friendly and helpful comments. Cheery bye!


----------



## richard56

You can be very proud of the log store.
I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms. What have you got planned for your next project?

Rich


----------



## devonwoody

Hi. Ross, it nice to have job satisfaction at the end of a project, looking forward to your next. 

(hammer) (hammer) (hammer)


----------



## Woodchips2

Well done Ross and thanks for the entertainment.Maybe think about marketing them as flat-pack and take on IKEA!
Regards Keith


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":2tquu5ga said:


> You can be very proud of the log store.
> I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms. What have you got planned for your next project?
> 
> Rich



Thanks for the comments and Interest Rich. I'm currently looking at a book on Japanese Joinery. It contains some humungously complicated joints. Anyone for a Japanese Pagoda style log store?


----------



## RossJarvis

devonwoody":3jn5dyat said:


> Hi. Ross, it nice to have job satisfaction at the end of a project, looking forward to your next.
> 
> (hammer) (hammer) (hammer)



Thanks for the comments and interest Devonwoody


----------



## RossJarvis

The Eriba Turner":32rpcqe0 said:


> Well done Ross and thanks for the entertainment.Maybe think about marketing them as flat-pack and take on IKEA!
> Regards Keith



Keith, I think if I wasn't paid for my labour, and gave most of the wood free and only charged for the nails, I might meet their price target :lol: 

Now if I could get some bespoke type customers, such as Tory MPs, we might be cooking on gas (hammer) 

Thanks for the interest and comments, it really has helped keep me going, same to everyone else who's chipped in.


----------



## richard56

RossJarvis":hsh4qb0f said:


> The Eriba Turner":hsh4qb0f said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well done Ross and thanks for the entertainment.Maybe think about marketing them as flat-pack and take on IKEA!
> Regards Keith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keith, I think if I wasn't paid for my labour, and gave most of the wood free and only charged for the nails, I might meet their price target :lol:
> 
> Now if I could get some bespoke type customers, such as Tory MPs, we might be cooking on gas (hammer)
> .
Click to expand...


I hope there is someone reading this who can give you some clues as to how you can do this.
I have read many times quality sells. Also build it and they will come. 
Except if you have my luck.
Keep at it, this time next year who knows. You could be richer than a Tory MP. 
Or overrun with log stores.
But at least you will be enjoying yourself.

All the best

Rich


----------



## RossJarvis

richard56":2uu7btbc said:


> I hope there is someone reading this who can give you some clues as to how you can do this.
> I have read many times quality sells. Also build it and they will come.
> Except if you have my luck.
> Keep at it, this time next year who knows. You could be richer than a Tory MP.
> Or overrun with log stores.
> But at least you will be enjoying yourself.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Rich



Thanks Rich. I must admit the thought has crossed my mind a good few times, I had seriously considered high quality, traditionally build dog-houses for the seriously pampered pet :idea: Though, as I do this for enjoyment, I'd want to do something new each time. I've found in the past if you enjoy something in your spare time and then do it for a living, it turns into work. I've always ended up hating work  I probably have the same type of luck as you. I'm also a poor salesman.

But I've not given up on the idea of working with my hands in wood for money. (I currently work with my hands and mouth in metal, and the splinters there ruin your motorbike petrol tank if you have a magnetic tank bag! #-o )


----------



## Paul Chapman

Pleased to see you got it finished. It's been good fun  

Looking forward to the next project and the further adventures of the apprentice....... :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## RossJarvis

Paul Chapman":212ltyjr said:


> Pleased to see you got it finished. It's been good fun
> 
> Looking forward to the next project and the further adventures of the apprentice....... :lol:
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Thanks for your support and kind comments  , The apprentice also sends his appreciation, though he says he prefers cheese!


----------



## Random Orbital Bob

Lovely Ross...you should be proud


----------



## RossJarvis

Random Orbital Bob":h44sryte said:


> Lovely Ross...you should be proud



Thanks Bob


----------



## Flynnwood

I've enjoyed reading your excursion into your workshop. I kept wondering at what point some nails were going to arrive in the process :lol: 

It was fun reading - thanks Ross


----------



## RossJarvis

Flynnwood":3b18l6l3 said:


> I've enjoyed reading your excursion into your workshop. I kept wondering at what point some nails were going to arrive in the process :lol:
> 
> It was fun reading - thanks Ross



Cheers Flynwood. I believe nails are a traditional product so I'm happy with them, Ideally I'd have avoided the screws but, hey ho, no-one'll see them with a cursory glance at least.


----------



## RossJarvis

And finally, all in place and wood delivered during a deluge and stacked;









It doesn't look too level with the fence but that can wait, particularly with 1/2 ton of ash in it! 

(If anyone from Scandinavia is curious, that, apparently, is supposed to be about half a winter's worth of burning wood for our climate. I'd probably use that a lot quicker myself!).

I received a “gift” following the build;





…and jolly pleased with them I am too. Wish I had these when cutting all those tenons! I’ve started making a couple of low Japanese saw stools to go with them (the idea was to use some 4x2 but I only had scraps of 2x2, which are glued together);





….and got some shelving board to make a Japanese style “tool-box”;





The plan after that is to have a go at making some fiendishly complicated joints from a couple of books I’ve got on Japanese carpentry and Joinery. I’ve got a couple of bits of oak which have been “seasoning” for a few years in the out-house. These’ll need cutting square and planing. (I’m sure I’ll ‘need’ to buy a couple of Japanese hardwood saws for that!!).


----------



## devonwoody

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


----------



## No skills

A well presented article, cant wait for the next project.

Ref the complex joinery, check out from 5.16 onwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ4pcEG1jqI


----------



## RossJarvis

No skills":370fal9a said:


> A well presented article, cant wait for the next project.
> 
> Ref the complex joinery, check out from 5.16 onwards.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ4pcEG1jqI



Thanks no-skills  Nice little vid. I'm thinking of doing the "goose-neck" joint at about 9:30 on that one. Those fiendish hidden tenon mitre joints need a long run-up I think. Though using the morticed does look like a good idea to save time and up-puffins.


----------



## Woodchips2

It looks good, well done! Nice gifts too.

Thanks for the entertainment (hammer) 

Regards Keith


----------



## Noggsy

Thoroughly enjoyable to read and I think the end product looks sturdy and Workmanlike (is that near Heckmondwike?). Your neighbour is very lucky. I look forward to your next WIP.


----------



## Phil Pascoe

I had a good woodstove, and that wood would do about six weeks of all day burning. (Cornwall)


----------



## RossJarvis

Noggsy":34hht4v3 said:


> Thoroughly enjoyable to read and I think the end product looks sturdy and Workmanlike (is that near Heckmondwike?). Your neighbour is very lucky. I look forward to your next WIP.



   

No, you're thinking of Worksop or Workington, I'm sure they're both near Slough, (or is it Glasgow?).

thanks Noggsy

Ross


----------

