# Ebay seller wanting to add vat



## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

As title theres an item of kit I want to buy its got 8 days to run but in the description they state that vat will be added to the total
I want the item but dont feel like adding 20% to the final bid which may be £400 or so
Ebay dont allow that sort of thing
Do I tell the seller that ebay dont allow that
report the auction? but which series of buttons for that offence?
or wait till i hopefully win and tell them the hammer price is what i'll pay and risk peeing them off and possiibly loosing item

Ian


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

Ask them to clarify their sales terms as on eBay VAT can't be added to an item's final auction price.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

So if they say " tough thats what we are doing"
what do i do
I have to go and collect
I do want to win this item


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## deema (17 Sep 2015)

Report the item to eBay


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

Well it would be best to find out first if they are expecting to add VAT.

If they are then point out eBay don't allow that. 

Report the item to eBay http://ocsnext.ebay.co.uk/ocs/sr?query=1732&st=7


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## Dee J (17 Sep 2015)

Regardless of what the Ebay policy is, they are being clear as to what the purchase costs are - and any competing bidder (if paying full attention) will be bidding on that basis. If another bidder bids £x + vat and you are not willing to bid £x+1 +vat then you won't be able to buy it. Whilst you could argue that they have to take the vat out of the hammer price - then any competing bidder will be working on that basis too and you're back where you started. If vat is due then it is due. If you report to Ebay and they bother to follow it up then the auction will probably be withdrawn and relisted as vat included in hammer price - but then any observant bidders will work on that basis and the resultant hammer price will be higher.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

Ive looked at reporting but utterly confused about which buttons to press
there is no option to just say "seller expecting to add amounts/ vat"


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

I do sometimes wonder if people do read the description properly though so I may be bidding knowing I have to add 20% but others may not


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

eBay are quite clear. VAT cannot be added - end of.


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## Dee J (17 Sep 2015)

flh801978":6mql1tjc said:


> I do sometimes wonder if people do read the description properly though so I may be bidding knowing I have to add 20% but others may not


Auction bidders overbid for all kinds of reasons - so there is no certainty that you can win the item at the price you want - or that is appropriate to the item 'value'.
If Ebay wont take any action, then you can always 'ask the seller a question' to clarify the vat situation and hope other bidders see the response.
But waiting 'til the auction is over and then refusing to pay the vat may well give you the moral high ground, but probably won't get you the item you want to buy.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

Seller replied to my query

Hi, as our eBay account is for business use and not personal use we are able to input the VAT rate at 20% this will be added to the final value, a VAT receipt will be issued. 

I hope this helps.


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## Ali (17 Sep 2015)

if you want the item and you need to go collect the item, then you will have to pay the VAT.

Ebay does not have a facility for this and obviously you can report the seller but the seller should not care. He is registered for VAT, this item is probably shown on their books so he needs to pay the VAT on the sale.

Hopefully there are not too many other buyers involved but I would be prepared to pay VAT. ebay will be powerless to help you get the item if you do not agree.


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## doctor Bob (17 Sep 2015)

If you win before you pay the additional 20%, ensure you get a vat receipt to prove he is Vat registered. Otherwise he is just conning you.


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## doctor Bob (17 Sep 2015)

The vat receipt will have his vat number on it, if it doesn't it's not a vat receipt.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2015)

Ali":yniw4std said:


> He is registered for VAT, this item is probably shown on their books so he needs to pay the VAT on the sale.


So do millions of other sellers. That's not the question, it's whether he can add it afterwards.


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

eBay says...



> As eBay is primarily a consumer marketplace, *you can't add VAT to the final item price after the item has been won*. Please state the item price including VAT in your listing.
> 
> For more information about what you can and can't charge on top of your sale price, see our selling practices policy


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## woodpig (17 Sep 2015)

Seems quite clear. If the seller wants to sell stuff on eBay the winning bid must include VAT.


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## Ali (17 Sep 2015)

phil.p":30bt0xz9 said:


> Ali":30bt0xz9 said:
> 
> 
> > He is registered for VAT, this item is probably shown on their books so he needs to pay the VAT on the sale.
> ...



My point is, yes he is breaking ebay's rules by demanding VAT after the final bid price, but what can the buyer or ebay do if he refuses to sell at that final bid price? Pretty much nothing. Ebay can't demand the seller hands over the goods, it has happened to me plenty of times when I have been the single bidder and the seller refuses to sell at a low price.

All you can do as a successful bidder is either come to a compromise with the seller or do a "take it and leave it" offer to the seller.

Ebay doesn't have much power in the real world.


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## Beau (17 Sep 2015)

I don't get the fuss.

His pricing is clear
You know what it will cost you

Yes is being sly as he won't pay Ebay fees on 20% but that probably means the seller can part with it for less money so in your favour.


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

Beau":o8s8tiw3 said:


> I don't get the fuss............


....... millions of other business sellers play by rules but there's always the odd "del boy" trying to make an extra buck by getting around them. Frankly I would trust a seller who is this devious.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

I dont mind paying the vat if its a level playing field
but so many come along at the last minute and bid forgetting that theres vat to add
I cant imagine the seller selling at a vat inclusive price should lose out if everyone reads the description
the question I sent hasnt been placed for everyone to see
And also the seller has listed it as private bidding which is another thing I hate

Ian


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## RogerP (17 Sep 2015)

He is a business seller masquerading as a private seller? :!:


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

Roger
no his business details are there for anyone to see
he just wants to make his own way of making an extra 20% on the sale fee free
and I think theres a chance of shilling going on if the bidders ids are hidden


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## MartinCox (17 Sep 2015)

Going back to the original issue, I can't see how the OL has no power here. He can "win" but then have to pay an extra 20% or refuse and lose the item. I have found out myself that EBay can be remarkably impotent when it chooses and it may choose so on this occasion. In other words, I would not rely upon it enforcing its own rules and somehow "making" the seller conform. 

The real power is to tell the forum about has happened - that's been done - and also the name of the seller company so that we all know what we are dealing with if we encounter that company either inside or outside EBay


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

I'm sure another will be along in a while but they are rare
Its a fobco pillar drill the 7/8ths one with gearbox
its reasonably local for me for collection (nottingham)


Maybe others could bombard the seller with queries ?


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## loftyhermes (17 Sep 2015)

one here, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOBCO-7-8-PIL ... 1c58bfe4e7


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## NickWelford (17 Sep 2015)

It is fairly common at auctions (not necessarily eBay) to add VAT to the hammer price.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

Yes but thats probably £2-300.00 more than most go for as an auction


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2015)

NickWelford":2pdeqdxz said:


> It is fairly common at auctions (not necessarily eBay) to add VAT to the hammer price.


And lot money and VAT on that.


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

Oh yes at normal auctions theres buyers commission of perhaps 15% and vat if its a business selling their assets
but ebay you ought to pay the hammer price and if its a business they give you a vat receipt with gross figure being the hammer price


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## Wildman (17 Sep 2015)

option for reporting is doing ebay out of fees.


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## Wildman (17 Sep 2015)

just pay via paypal and don't add VAT tell him it is illegal and outside of ebay terms.


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## brianhabby (17 Sep 2015)

Wildman":3j7iz0u4 said:


> just pay via paypal and don't add VAT tell him it is illegal and outside of ebay terms.


It isn't illegal, just against eBay's terms.

regards

Brian


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## DiscoStu (17 Sep 2015)

I don't see the issue you know his terms, either accept them or not?


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## flh801978 (17 Sep 2015)

I do know his terms but loads wont who bid and then refuse to pay the extra
so lets say it goes to 300 thats an extra 60 for the vat
whereas it only ought to go to 250 at auction with the vat taking it to 300
If he played by ebays rules at least its a level playing field with everyone knowing that the hammer price is what you pay


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## blackrodd (17 Sep 2015)

DiscoStu":3oerwmil said:


> I don't see the issue you know his terms, either accept them or not?



+ 1 for above, Or If you must have the item, pay the vat, when you've got it, complain about the vat added on, you'll get a refund if it's against e bay rules, as you say it is.
Regards Rodders


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## artie (17 Sep 2015)

flh801978":1toola6u said:


> I'm sure another will be along in a while but they are rare
> Its a fobco pillar drill the 7/8ths one with gearbox
> its reasonably local for me for collection (nottingham)
> 
> ...



If it isn't new he shouldn't be charging VAT.


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## marcros (17 Sep 2015)

artie":4g3zoanf said:


> flh801978":4g3zoanf said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure another will be along in a while but they are rare
> ...



why not? It isn't about whether it is new or used, but whether the seller is a registered business or not?


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## defsdoor (17 Sep 2015)

I'm with flh801978 on this one.

If they want to add VAT on top they should sell it somewhere else where that is allowed.

The bid price includes VAT. They should either accept that or not use ebay.


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## Eric The Viking (18 Sep 2015)

Others have said this, and I agree: *do not trust someone who tries to bend the rules*.

He's VAT registered, so he is legally required to remit VAT to the Revenue on everything he sells that is VAT-able. They don't care how that is done, as long as they see two numbers: a sale price, and 20% of that to his VAT account.

But he has contractually agreed with eBay to sell in a certain way. The VAT-inclusive hammer price rule is clearly explained, whether the seller likes it or not. If he does add VAT post-sale, he's breaking his contract with eBay (and nobody else), although he's behaving quite legally as far as the Revenue is concerned.

The thing is, though, that he's also revealing how he likes to do business, i.e. sneakily. You may feel the drill is so good you'll take the risk (assuming you win the auction), you may not. 

It's your call, but personally I wouldn't.


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## artie (18 Sep 2015)

marcros":3pflt4td said:


> artie":3pflt4td said:
> 
> 
> > flh801978":3pflt4td said:
> ...



It's a few years since I was VAT registered so things may have changed.

But AFAIK Vat is only due on new goods.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Sep 2015)

If you go to auctions regularly, you'll often see VAT on huge amounts of second hand goods where the vendor is VAT registered. If you buy a second hand commercial vehicle you'll probably pay VAT on it.


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## artie (18 Sep 2015)

phil.p":31obldzy said:


> If you go to auctions regularly, you'll often see VAT on huge amounts of second hand goods where the vendor is VAT registered. If you buy a second hand commercial vehicle you'll probably pay VAT on it.



Yes I had a think about it while making breakfast and there are instances where Vat is due on second hand stuff, but only if it wasn't paid when new.

For instance if the builder buys a new pick up for £25000 and reclaims the vat, drives it for 10 years and sells it for £2000,

he must account for the vat in the price he received.£1600 + £400 vat

He can sell it to joe public for £2000 and account for the vat himself or sell it too another vat reg business for £1600 + vat.

But if someone buys a new Pick up for £25,000, can't reclaim the vat, drives it for 10 years and sells it for £2000 they get to keep it all.

I think I got that right. 

Edit to add I know the £1600 and £2000 arne't correct but I can't be pineappled figuring it out


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## doorframe (18 Sep 2015)

For what it's worth I've contacted him through ebay and pointed out his 'error'. Also reported the listing to ebay. 

Personally, I wouldn't deal with with the sneak. Apart from blatantly breaking the (unenforceable) rules that everyone else plays by, he's also hiding the bidding... *private listing - bidders' identities protected*... which is the first sign of a shilly auction. 

You won't get the extra 20% back from paypal if you do pay it and the then dispute it, as was suggested earlier. Although ebay/paypal have cleaned up their act recently, they will see it as 'you' braking the rules as well. 

So, either go for it, knowing the guy is a scumbag and your getting a bit stitched up,

OR 

Give it a wide berth and wait for the next one.

I know which I would choose.


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## Eric The Viking (18 Sep 2015)

On VAT, it's really simple: there are categories of product and service that attract VAT. If you sell any of those and you are VAT registered, then you remit VAT to the revenue on those sales. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't pay VAT on the goods originally. 

Additionally, if you sell to consumers you advertise VAT-inclusive prices; if you sell to other businesses you advertise ex-vat prices. I think that's just custom & practice rather than hard-and-fast law.

The only exception to that I can quickly think of is new-build property, which is zero-rated (technically different from 'exempt' but neither attract VAT). 

In the property case, I think that implies the contractor eats the VAT on anything bought in (materials and contract labour), but I've never been in the position of buying a brand new property, so I can't say.

Worth noting that the EU long ago declared its intention that VAT should be charged on all categories of product & service, albeit in varying amounts (known as 'harmonization').

---------------------

On the eBay auction, good call.


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## artie (18 Sep 2015)

Eric The Viking":bd912199 said:


> On VAT, it's really simple: there are categories of product and service that attract VAT. If you sell any of those and you are VAT registered, then you remit VAT to the revenue on those sales. It doesn't matter if you did or didn't pay VAT on the goods originally.
> 
> 
> .



Not correct.

VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.

If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.


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## defsdoor (18 Sep 2015)

> Hi,
> 
> Please be advise that I have amended my listing as I have been made aware that VAT can not be added to the final value.
> 
> ...


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## mind_the_goat (18 Sep 2015)

> Not correct.
> VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
> If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.



How would you know that?
If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used. There is an optional alternative that allows you to charge on the margin. 


Anyway, the OPs original problem appears to have been solved, Good luck with your bidding.


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## RobinBHM (18 Sep 2015)

mind_the_goat":2r8bbcgj said:


> > Not correct.
> > VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
> > If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.
> 
> ...



A VAT registered company has to charge VAT on the sales invoice, it doesnt matter what tax was paid on the input side. There is an option to pay different levels of VAT ie 20%, 5%, 0% but they are restricted to very limited goods IE food, heating oil. There is a VAT exempt option but Ive never come across anything to which that applies.

supermarket plastic bags go through a lot of wasted VAT processing, from raw materials to the supermarket they generally go through 3 companies all having to charge VAT, which the next company reclaim on the purchase side and then a the supermarket they are usually given away free! (5p charge from Oct)


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## artie (18 Sep 2015)

mind_the_goat":3jpjmjnh said:


> > Not correct.
> > VAT is not due on second hand goods unless it was not paid/reclaimed when new.
> > If you can prove me wrong, then I will be happy as I will have learned something.
> 
> ...



I said it's been a while since I was Vat reg and am happy if someone can prove me wrong




mind_the_goat":3jpjmjnh said:


> If you are VAT registered then you charge VAT on sales, no distinction between new or used.



If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.


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## Eric The Viking (18 Sep 2015)

artie":1kwesl1f said:


> If that is the case try asking for a vat receipt the next time you buy a used car.



I've a feeling the tax rules on motor vehicle trading are different. The normal situation is as we've all said: VAT on the invoice amount.

I've been VAT registered personally twice, at different times in my life, and it was the same for both periods. I last de-registered around 2008. I've never been a motor trader though.


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## mind_the_goat (18 Sep 2015)

artie":3srgwi0e said:


> mind_the_goat":3srgwi0e said:
> 
> 
> > > Not correct.
> ...



What I meant was how would know if VAT was paid/reclaimed when new. It does however appear that rules for used cars are different depending on a few factors including if the dealer paid VAT when they purchased it. a useful tool here https://www.gov.uk/vat-vehicle-sales
Really can't think why cars should be treated differently to any other item but I guess it keeps a few thousand accountants and civil servants in a job.


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## artie (18 Sep 2015)

mind_the_goat":1iy513kq said:


> Really can't think why cars should be differently to any other item but I guess it keeps a few thousand accountants and civil servants in a job.



It's not only cars. I only gave that as one case.

A dealer a few years ago tried to charge me vat on a used item, not a car. 

I counted him out the price minus vat and told him what he did was attempted fraud and did he want to call the vat office to check.

He quickly took the money developed a red face and decided he was needed out the back.




Eric The Viking":1iy513kq said:


> The normal situation is as we've all said: VAT on the invoice amount.



Just because you all said it doesn’t make it so.

Anyways no point going on with this. But I suggest you check when buying a used item whether the vat charge is legitimate as 20% is quite a bit to throw away on some purchases.


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## woodpig (18 Sep 2015)

The subject of VAT was covered on another forum many years ago and I can't remember the details but VAT can be charged on the same item over and over again if it's re-acquired and sold by a VAT registered seller. Morally "wrong" as far as I'm concerned but when did that matter! :lol:


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## doorframe (18 Sep 2015)

defsdoor":368yg7xg said:


> > Hi,
> >
> > Please be advise that I have amended my listing as I have been made aware that VAT can not be added to the final value.
> >
> > ...



Yep, that was his reply to my rather abrupt ebay PM. Also pasted onto his listing. Still don't like the hidden bidders list, and that's enough to put me off (if I was interested in the item) but at least that part is sorted now.


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Sep 2015)

Excuse my ignorance, but is there any legitimate reason to hide the bidder's identities? I can't think of one.


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## Sporky McGuffin (18 Sep 2015)

Maybe if you were selling a collection of vintage erotica? I tend to avoid auctions with hidden bidders as it makes it even easier for the seller to shill.


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## brianhabby (18 Sep 2015)

This thread seems to have moved away from the original topic and decended into a discussion about VAT generally. 

I spoke to a lady at eBay last night about this listing and for once it seems they have acted as others have noted above and forced the seller to now include VAT in the final hammer price. Just shows what can happen if we work together 

So the OP can bid with confidence that he will only pay the final price and not an extra 20%, assuming he is the winning bidder of course. 

I don't know why some people hide bidders identity for things like this though.

regards

Brian


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## dickm (18 Sep 2015)

In passing, my Fobco cost £35, not THAT many years ago  ! And didn't pay vat on it, either


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2015)

artie":tuhkzddk said:


> mind_the_goat":tuhkzddk said:
> 
> 
> > > Not correct.
> ...



If they are VAT registered then they have to charge some VAT and give you a receipt if you ask for it. The amount of VAT charged on a secondhand car depends on what VAT scheme they are running.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

RogerS":prcb1wxa said:


> If they are VAT registered then they have to charge some VAT and give you a receipt if you ask for it. The amount of VAT charged on a secondhand car depends on what VAT scheme they are running.



I know I said earlier that there is no point continuing this, but it's Sunday afternoon so here goes.

To the best of my knowledge there are only three options for VAT, 20%, 5% and 0%.

Most common is probably 20% on yer TVs and other consumer goods, 5% on heating oil and a few other things and 0% on most food and essentials. VAT is only due once on any item. But due to the system may be charged and reclaimed many times before HMRC gets to finally keep it and sometimes they never get any.

If a registered business buys a "vatable" item and reclaims the VAT, then uses it until it is scrapped then HMRC gets 0.

If a registered business buys an item and reclaims the vat, uses it for a while and sells it on to another registered business for a lesser amount + VAT and they subsequently reclaim the VAT, HMRC receives nothing.

If a registered business buys an item and reclaims the vat, uses it for a while and sells it on to a non registered person who pays the price + VAT, HMRC gets it's slice, and is now out of the picture.

Should the non registered person at a later date sell the item to a registered business It does not magically become liable for vat again, because he did not make it and he did not pay vat on it. 

What he is supposed to do is record what he paid for it, what he sold it for and pay HMRC the difference divided by 1.2 which comes out the same as him charging 20%. And he won't give a receipt because he did not charge VAT on the item, he paid vat on the service he provided and it's not reclaimable because it can't be transferred.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2015)

Partly true.

However where I think you are wrong is in the last two points.

If I buy a machine from Axminster, they charge me VAT which goes to HMRC via Axminster's VAT return.

If I later sell this machine to a secondhand machine dealer who is VAT registered, he will not claim back any VAT from HMRC because I am not VAT registered and will not have charged him any VAT. However, when he then sells the machine to someone else he has to add VAT at a rate depending on whether or not he is operating the VAT margin scheme. https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes/overview


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2015)

Vat is very simple, reading this thread makes it seem incredibly complicated, do you all work in the civil service or something?


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

RogerS":12kiqf80 said:


> Partly true.
> 
> However where I think you are wrong is in the last two points.
> 
> ...



We are nearly there now. 

He has no choice, Legally

He can't charge VAT because he did not manufacture the item nor did he pay VAT when he purchased it.

It says quite clearly in the link you provided that the margin scheme is for use with second hand goods and that goods which don't fall under it must be treated in the ordinary way.

Just think about it.

Dealer buys a used item for £1000 wants to make 200 sovs for himself so puts it up for sale for £1200 + VAT

Lets just forget for a moment about registered dealers, because the general unregistered public far outnumber them.

He needs to get someone to pay him £1440.

Doing it the proper way to make the same profit he only needs to ask £1223.32.

Stands a much better chance of getting a buyer and making some money.

There is no reason for a dealer to be charging 20% vat on used goods unless he intends to pocket the money himself.

Except of course as discussed above if he paid VAT.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2015)

I give up.

You win.


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2015)

Artie....... I really hope you don't run a business.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

doctor Bob":334er6wj said:


> Artie....... I really hope you don't run a business.



I do and I have showed a profit every year for the last 28 years.


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## Sporky McGuffin (20 Sep 2015)

doctor Bob":3bvezri7 said:


> Artie....... I really hope you don't run a business.



Though it's hard to tell if he'd be getting fined or refunded.


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2015)

artie":2t28ll4i said:


> doctor Bob":2t28ll4i said:
> 
> 
> > Artie....... I really hope you don't run a business.
> ...



Congratulations on the profit, are you vat registered?


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

RogerS":2w1si4n4 said:


> I give up.
> 
> You win.




I am not here to win. I am here to learn, and if I can, pass on some useful information in return.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

doctor Bob":arnorl1s said:


> artie":arnorl1s said:
> 
> 
> > doctor Bob":arnorl1s said:
> ...



Had you actually read my posts you wouldn't have to ask .


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## doctor Bob (20 Sep 2015)

artie":11th8ufl said:


> Are you vat registered?





> Had you actually read my posts you wouldn't have to ask .



OK, I have now trawled through the posts and seen "it's been a while since you were Vat registered". I think you are mistaken on the vat rules.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

doctor Bob":20jxh52b said:


> artie":20jxh52b said:
> 
> 
> > Are you vat registered?
> ...



Well I said I could be wrong right from the start and invited anyone to show me.

But so far all I have had is opinions which I believe are no more valid than mine.


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## MartinCox (20 Sep 2015)

We run a business that turns over about £750k a year. So we are obviously VAT registered and use a chartered accountant to calculate and submit our VAT returns which end up us paying HMRC about £35K a quarter. Most of what we buy is from VAT registered businesses almost always at the rate 20% rate. We do buy small amounts from people whose turnover keeps them below the VAT threshold. We have a fleet of cars which we buy nearly new/ex-demos and we have invoices from the main dealers which show the VAT we are paying,

We remain on the cash-accounting process allowed by HMRC and the calculation therefore is essentially a simple one. Add up the VAT paid out to suppliers in the quarter and if this includes suppliers who do not charge VAT, then those VAT amounts are zero. Then add up the 20% VAT we received from invoices we have raised and that were paid in that quarter. Take one away from another and you end up with the money you owe HMRC. When we started we bought equipment before we sold anything (raised invoices and got paid) and so the amount of VAT we paid out exceeded the VAT we received. Therefore, we got a net VAT refund.

If we buy something like a car on which we have paid VAT - as shown on the supplier invoice - and later sell the item either for less or more, then the principle our chartered accountant employs is that, if you paid VAT when you bought it, then you must charge VAT when you sell it. If we bought something and didn't pay VAT, then we cannot charge and later claim VAT.

Now, this is only a chartered accountant from a very large, well respected practice with many branches. Obviously, nothing like the credibility and experience of some of the contributors to this thread.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

MartinCox":2p0acgua said:


> If we buy something like a car on which we have paid VAT - as shown on the supplier invoice - and later sell the item either for less or more, then the principle our chartered accountant employs is that, if you paid VAT when you bought it, then you must charge VAT when you sell it. If we bought something and didn't pay VAT, then we cannot charge and later claim VAT.



Seems reasonable to me.


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## clk230 (20 Sep 2015)

artie":rb0t95o1 said:


> RogerS":rb0t95o1 said:
> 
> 
> > Partly true.
> ...



If a person or business is VAT registered then he has to charge VAT what is so hard to understand ?? 
Just because he didn't pay vat at purchase point doesn't mean he can't charge vat OF COURSE HE HAS TO

Simple vat registered means you have to charge vat and are able to reclaim the vat.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

clk230":py600z90 said:


> artie":py600z90 said:
> 
> 
> > RogerS":py600z90 said:
> ...



Because you say so.?

This is getting beyond ridiculous.


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## clk230 (20 Sep 2015)

No because THE VAT MAN says so , what is it you don't understand


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

clk230":3964e8ng said:


> No because THE VAT MAN says so , what is it you don't understand



Show me where the vat man says that used goods are vat rated at 20%

Go on.


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## clk230 (20 Sep 2015)

artie":2zecszlw said:


> clk230":2zecszlw said:
> 
> 
> > No because THE VAT MAN says so , what is it you don't understand
> ...



I think you'll find Roger very kindly showed you the link , if the seller decides not to use said scheme he must charge vat on the full price .


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## marcros (20 Sep 2015)

artie":hhja0c5n said:


> clk230":hhja0c5n said:
> 
> 
> > No because THE VAT MAN says so , what is it you don't understand
> ...



https://www.gov.uk/vat-margin-schemes 

The seller can CHOOSE to operate under a margin scheme. If they do not, it is charged at the standard rate.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

clk230":2zh1tp9m said:


> artie":2zh1tp9m said:
> 
> 
> > clk230":2zh1tp9m said:
> ...



That is quite simply not true, did you bother to read the link, or just the part you think backs up your argument.

I will be making one more post in this thread and then I am done.


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## artie (20 Sep 2015)

marcros":1tnj38q6 said:


> artie":1tnj38q6 said:
> 
> 
> > clk230":1tnj38q6 said:
> ...



Similar response as above.

And now I am done.


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## marcros (20 Sep 2015)

good.


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## woodpig (20 Sep 2015)

Well I'm glad that's sorted! :lol:


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## Noel (20 Sep 2015)

I've been a non-paid Vat collector for HMRC for a long time. Thought it was a simple process until reading this thread..... : )


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## doorframe (25 Sep 2015)

So, it ended at £346. Did you get it?


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## flh801978 (25 Sep 2015)

Yes I just got back from collecting it
I had seen that it was in nottingham but actually it was very close to home only 20 miles so that was a bonus

And wow what a machine size wise
I've had a couple of fobco 1/2 "drills but this is on steroids plus plus
everything is massive
I can pick up a bench fobco1/2" and carry it quite easily but this must be 350kg

we had to lift off the spindle head with a forklift the base weighs perhaps 40kg the column 40 kg the table must be 50kg
even after stripping off everything off the head.... guards/motor etc I can still not lift it so must be 120kg

when i got there we plugged it in and it sounds superb starts with a whoosh and is virtually silent.

I'll post some pics when i start putting it back together after painting it.

Oh and by the way he gave me a vat reciept so I can claim the vat back
I'm Vat reg and I charge 20% on everything I sell business wise whether new or used...thats all I'll say on the matter

Ian

the seller did say he was pleased with what he got for it as dealers had only offered 100 ish for it


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