# Holdfasts



## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

I wish to buy one of these for my bench, has anyone got any recommendations? The only one that I come across within the uk is the veritas one - anyone used it?


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## bugbear (20 May 2010)

ByronBlack":kyk1xruy said:


> I wish to buy one of these for my bench, has anyone got any recommendations? The only one that I come across within the uk is the veritas one - anyone used it?



I have an old Record one; it's handy to use, but I positioned it non-optimally.

BugBear


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## Racers (20 May 2010)

Hi, ByronBlack

I have a pair of Woden ones that need collars, I beleve you can get them from Axminister, that I don't use, interested?


Pete


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## Paul Chapman (20 May 2010)

Axminster do one that looks similar to the Record type http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

The grammercy style is the best. FACT :wink:


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Thanks for the info chaps - do those ones from axminster have to have a collar installed to use? I was hoping to get one that can just go into a 19mm hole...

The other thing that would worry me about those is the large screw attachment.

Basically, I'm after something like this: 







Pete - thanks for the offer, but I wanted to try and avoid installing collars onto the workbench if possible - assuming I'm understanding the meaning of collar. (In the axminster picture, is it the circular black thing on the surface of the bench?)


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Tom - I take it you bought the gramercy ones? Did you have to import them?


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

imho if you don't want to spend the money importing one from TFWW then the only other option is the Veritas one, which is very good. However, I'd much prefer to have the proper ones like you pictured. So far whenever this has come up, no one has found a UK maker\seller. I did think about approaching some blacksmiths. But then I wondered why the likes of CHT, Workshop Heaven, etc haven't already done so?


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

ByronBlack":2vrb4lxi said:


> Tom - I take it you bought the gramercy ones? Did you have to import them?



I bought 2 of them a couple of xmases ago. One as a present for MarkW (for helping me out of a few thousand holes and one went to my secret santa (Tiddles). I was absolutely gutted when I gave it away. They are the donkey's whatsits.


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

wizer":2e0bvxuv said:
 

> imho if you don't want to spend the money importing one from TFWW then the only other option is the Veritas one, which is very good. However, I'd much prefer to have the proper ones like you pictured. So far whenever this has come up, no one has found a UK maker\seller. I did think about approaching some blacksmiths. But then I wondered why the likes of CHT, Workshop Heaven, etc haven't already done so?



It is odd that no one is making these here, they can't be that difficult/expensive to make. 

I don't mind importing them if I have to - do you know how much it comes to with the VAT and duty? Could still be cheaper than the veritas one (which I don't like because of the large head on it).


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

Ah see I bought them when the dollar was kinder. Today they are 

$31.95 for a pair
$44.18 for shipping
$76.13 = £53.26 @ today's ex rate.
£26.63 each

Not bad actually. I distinctly remember not being charged customs. But that was luck, not a given.

I'd be tempted to buy one if we where bulk buying?

I'm going to make some enquiries about having them made in the UK. TFWW state they use some special blend of springy metal, but I'm sure the old ones worked just as well.


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## Karl (20 May 2010)

BB

I bought a few of the Axminster versions. You can see them on my workbench here. Skip to midway down page 3. 

They're a bit rough round the edges (not literally - there's too much paint on them for that!), and one of the pins came out of one of them (quick fix with some blu-tak). But for the cash, I reckon they're spot on. I've just been using them to help plane a straight edge on some 8' boards.

You can buy extra collars too, which can be strategically place, much like dog-holes.

Cheers

Karl


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## bugbear (20 May 2010)

wizer":7j7eapci said:


> The grammercy style is the best. FACT :wink:



My God. Has this place turned into Twitter?!

BugBear


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

bugbear":gk9sjzwy said:
 

> wizer":gk9sjzwy said:
> 
> 
> > The grammercy style is the best. FACT :wink:
> ...



@bugbear clearly #woodworking


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## woodbloke (20 May 2010)

I've always used the Record Holdfasts with a nice ci collar in the bench. Never had any problems with them and I often see one for sale in PFT...usually no collar though - Rob


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Tom, I think i might be tempted to import a pair if you are interested in buying one? I dont think i'll need two, so would be happy to split with you if you want one


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

absotootly


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## Racers (20 May 2010)

Hi,

Local blacksmith?


Pete


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Racers":187o62zr said:


> Hi,
> 
> Local blacksmith?
> 
> ...



In the past couple of hours, I've tried to contact five blacksmiths kind of local to me, and none are either interested, or are contactable - which is a shame, if one of them could do it, I would imagine it would be a nice little earner for them.


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

I've also emailed a couple


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## Racers (20 May 2010)

Hi,

Thats a shame, time to fire up the barby and make some?


Pete


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Racers":1r4q2k4p said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thats a shame, time to fire up the barby and make some?
> 
> ...



I can't even find 19mm iron stock.. my search skills are weak today it seems.


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## Racers (20 May 2010)

How about 3/4" :wink: 


Pete


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Racers":226hayl1 said:


> How about 3/4" :wink:
> 
> 
> Pete



Good thinking batman.

Found this: http://www.metals4u.co.uk/detail.asp?cat_id=54&prd_id=2363

Do you think that would work? If so, how on earth would I heat it and bend it?


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## Racers (20 May 2010)

Hi,

It will take some heating a barby and hairdryer will work but it will be hard going, can you hire some thing to heat it? gas powered etc.
I use a 56Lb weight as an anvil.

Pete


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

Racers":1ksi34q2 said:


> Hi,
> 
> It will take some heating a barby and hairdryer will work but it will be hard going, can you hire some thing to heat it? gas powered etc.
> I use a 56Lb weight as an anvil.
> ...



I just tossed a an metal bbq  

With all the hassle of doing it myself, I think i'd rather just import it as I don't have anything to use as an anvil, or a decent heavy hammer to shape it.. it's a shame there aren't more smithies out there who could do this sortof thing, I can't imagine it would take them long.


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## xy mosian (20 May 2010)

Hi all, I use one of these,

http://www.bricodepot.fr/bordeaux/outillage/outils-du-macon/outils-de-coffrage

the smallest I think. It might not be ideal, but look at the price!

The point of my note is that I have found that with only one the workpiece can spin if the active force is not in line with the clamp. I'm going over to SW France on Sunday, ash cloud permitting, and intend buying at least one more. 

Just a point on size 3/4" bar in 19mm hole sounds a bit tight, is 1/2" not big enough?

xy


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

xy mosian":3p9gkz95 said:


> Hi all, I use one of these,
> 
> http://www.bricodepot.fr/bordeaux/outillage/outils-du-macon/outils-de-coffrage
> 
> ...



Thats interesting xy- do you use this in a 3/4 hole? (and is that saying that it is 1 euro 20 cents? or 1 for 20 euros'?

*you are probably right regaring the bar, I was mistakingly thinking it had to be the same width as the hole - but obviously it needs to be smaller -- doh!


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## Mike H (20 May 2010)

The 3/4" or 19mm hole is now a good standard for attaching all sorts of things to the bench.

The Veritas holdfasts are dear but absolutely reliable. An investment in a pair is a better investment than other expensive hand tools which end up little used.

Veritas also make a whole lot of other stuff in the 3/4" standard size.

I have a variety of these and they are in constant use for hand work and routing, dominoes, biscuiting.

Round holes in the bench are much more versatile than rectangular or square ones, since uneven shapes can themn also be accommodated. Also it is easy to make square or octagonal wood pegs to fit tightly in these.

Axminster do very good metal 19mm dogs which are cheaper than the Veritas ones.

For thinner benches, say 2" down, the Sjoberb holdfasts for their cheaper benches, at £20 a pair, are also useful. They are strong enough for general work. For example, I have drilled the outside of my 1" thick drill press false table and I can quickly clamp work for drilling safely.

Hope this helps

Mike


8)


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

Oh by the way. If you come across the small ones on Dieter Schmidd (sp?), that are cast, don't even think about buying them. I have a pair that MarkW got me, but he managed to break the head off one or both of his. As such I'm scared to use mine. They're ok for light work. But the proper iron ones can take an almighty whack, when needed.

I do like the veritas hold down, except the ribbed bar. Which scuffs up my 19mm holes when I take it out and put back in. It's only fractionally smaller than the hole.

As Mike says, the 19mm holes are the way to go. The veritas dogs are a lovely piston fit in them with a pleasing plop as you pluck them out :roll: :lol: 

Of course you could just buy a vacuum clamping system and do away with all this holdfast business


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## dannykaye (20 May 2010)

mine were by Phil in Galena 

http://www.galenavillageblacksmith.com/

highly recommended


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## wizer (20 May 2010)

Come on Danny.  More info please. Did he send them to the UK or did you get them from him in person? Costs?


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## dannykaye (20 May 2010)

It was a long time ago, he sent them and they were a gift, I suspect that they are more now, sorry 

He did invite me to visit but I have yet to manage to go. Well worth a look at his site, he built a log cabin, starting with felling the trees and rafting them downriver, and the day to day life in his blog is simply amazing (this may just be posted to Galoot central)


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## OPJ (20 May 2010)

Racers":1trg8t1u said:


> Local blacksmith?



Wasn't there a forum member, some time last year, who was looking to get a set of these made by a local blacksmith...? Can't remember the outcome of it.


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## xy mosian (20 May 2010)

byron, It must be 1€ 20cents each as mine was under 2€ including vat.
I use mine in a 3/4" hole to hold down boards for surface carving. That's how I came across the swivelling material bit. My carving table, not as grand as it sounds, is 44mm joinery quality softwood, a spare bit. I do think a longer 'shank'? would be useful for bigger stuff, the clamp I use would be OK up to maybe 75m or thereabouts.
HTH

xy


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## ByronBlack (20 May 2010)

xy mosian":2qxh2ew1 said:


> byron, It must be 1€ 20cents each as mine was under 2€ including vat.
> I use mine in a 3/4" hole to hold down boards for surface carving. That's how I came across the swivelling material bit. My carving table, not as grand as it sounds, is 44mm joinery quality softwood, a spare bit. I do think a longer 'shank'? would be useful for bigger stuff, the clamp I use would be OK up to maybe 75m or thereabouts.
> HTH
> 
> xy



They sound ideal - would it be too much of a hassle if you picked up a couple extra while you were out there and I paypal you the cash ahead of time (plus whatever it costs to post them?) Otherwise, if not, would they deliver to the UK?


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## xy mosian (20 May 2010)

byron, PM sent.


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## neilc (20 May 2010)

ByronBlack":3a9lvdhd said:


> I wish to buy one of these for my bench, has anyone got any recommendations? The only one that I come across within the uk is the veritas one - anyone used it?


Hi BB, I have a pair of the 'Tools For Working Wood" ones. They're class. I couldn't recommend them highly enough, they lock the work down rock solid. Then it just a tap on the back to release them. 
On a side note, Joel (owner) is a really nice guy. I rang in my order at the time and spent ages chatting, we even checked out each others premises on google maps while chatting.
Neil

Edit:- Actually you can see them on one of the legs of my workbench in my avatar.


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## AndyT (20 May 2010)

That's an interesting tip about them being easy to find in France - I'd noticed far more old ones on French eBay than in the UK. Maybe another area where the tradition is just different. (I remember spotting an ordinary wooden rebate planes in a big supermarket alongside the socket sets and hard-tooth saws.)

I believe the top part does need to be nicely spring tempered - not a brittle casting like some Chinese lookalikes sold by Wizer's favourite dealer!


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## xy mosian (20 May 2010)

Andy, those I linked to are not true holdfasts! They have no appreciable spring in them. 
From my, limited, experience of use they are popular for holding shuttering for concreting around windows, and for holding timber beams to walls. They seem to be widely available in trade hardware sheds. Those around here who reside in France will have more knowledge than I do. 
I had thought of trying some holdfasts but thought they were expensive if they did not suit. Almost falling over these on a visit to the Charente I thought for 2€ I'd give them a try. When I use the one I have it holds purely by friction in the hole in the bench top.
As an aside if I were making one, without a forge, I would start with 1/2", 12mm, bar and make a shepherds crook. Cold bend a smallish radius at the end, about a semi circle. Bend it around a piece of scaffolding pipe or similar. Then another semi circular bend of larger radius to form the 'spring'. The small radius bend would need to be used with a timber pad to protect the workpiece. Now I have no 1/2" bar so cannot comment on whether this wood work. If you try it, do so at your own risk.

xy


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## Vann (20 May 2010)

Paul Chapman":3bc6izgq said:


> Axminster do one that looks similar to the Record type http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44


Hi Paul,

Is that equivilent to the Record #145 or #146? I have two Record #145s, with 3 collars (lost one collar :evil: ), and would like to buy another holdfast complete with collars. Tilgear had #146 repros a year ago, but they're not interchangable with the #145 of course.

Cheers, Vann.


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## SammyP64 (20 May 2010)

they have on TBT olnes hand forged by a traditional blacksmith at the williamsberg museum and forged, i have one of the striking knifes made by the same guy, STUNNING is all i will say...


Sammy


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## Paul Chapman (21 May 2010)

Vann":1y75ew4u said:


> Paul Chapman":1y75ew4u said:
> 
> 
> > Axminster do one that looks similar to the Record type http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... =1&jump=44
> ...



Hi Vann,

I have the Record #145 and the Axminster ones look similar but I'm not sure whether they are equivalent.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Woodwould (21 May 2010)

I currently have a pair of the excellent TFWW holdfasts which can be beaten into the bench unmercifully.

Before I retired, I had some equally good holdfasts made by a springworks. Surely some of you blokes in the Midlands could sort out a springworks to make a batch for forum members? 

Alternatively, you could snaffle a 19mm anti-roll bar off the front of a smashed, mid to large-sized car and cut and bend it to shape with a gas axe at your local, friendly garage. 

I would be afraid of the bodily damage the points of those pretty leafy holdfasts could inflict.


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## squib (21 May 2010)

I had mine made by the local blacksmith while i waited, I love them cos they are so easy to use and bite like a goodun.


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## bugbear (21 May 2010)

wizer":3s0t6xmi said:


> Oh by the way. If you come across the small ones on Dieter Schmidd (sp?), that are cast, don't even think about buying them. I have a pair that MarkW got me, but he managed to break the head off one or both of his. As such I'm scared to use mine. They're ok for light work. But the proper iron ones can take an almighty whack, when needed.
> 
> I do like the veritas hold down, except the ribbed bar. Which scuffs up my 19mm holes when I take it out and put back in. It's only fractionally smaller than the hole.



How many holdfasts have you got?!?!? Your bench top must look like swiss cheese...

BugBear


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## wizer (21 May 2010)

three


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## bugbear (21 May 2010)

Anyone want to see a proper "man size" holdfast?







BugBear (who hasn't drilled his bench with a hole that big)


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## wizer (21 May 2010)

Looks about the same size as the veritas. What size is the bar?


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## bugbear (21 May 2010)

wizer":ziqss3b9 said:


> Looks about the same size as the veritas. What size is the bar?



http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php? ... t_thread=1

BugBear


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## Mike H (22 May 2010)

Those Record holdfasts and copies are good and strong, I had a Record for years and a few collars on the bench but 2 shortcomings were always there:

One: These devices, although strong, have a nasty habit of moving the work back as you tighten. Not very nice for positioning, in particular for dovetail pin marking for example.

Two: Even with 3 collars they never seemed to be in the correct place. Collar fitting is not a ten minute job.

I now have 30 odd 3/4" holes on the new bench I made and 2 Veritas Holdfasts, very good reach, strong, do not move the work, and would not want to revert back. Worth the investment and more useful than overpriced chisels, for example.

Mike

8)


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## toolsntat (22 May 2010)

Been using the record holdfast for years without a collar... always bites well enough 8) 8) 

This chap Alex at Stanford Hall near Lutterworth would I dare say oblige anyone with their smithing requirements :wink: 

http://www.wulfdalesmithy.com/

When there is a show or summat on in the grounds he is often working in the old forge by the stables and you can watch him at the anvil   

Andy


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## ByronBlack (22 May 2010)

toolsntat":2rvz909v said:


> Been using the record holdfast for years without a collar... always bites well enough 8) 8)
> 
> This chap Alex at Stanford Hall near Lutterworth would I dare say oblige anyone with their smithing requirements :wink:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link, I've emailed him to see if he can make them.


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## adrian (24 May 2010)

I tried to use the gramercy holdfasts to secure blocks of wood to hold a workpiece for planing across the grain, but they always slip after a few minutes. How do people use their holdfasts?


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## wizer (24 May 2010)

More info Adrian. What size blocks where you using and how were you securing the holdfasts? Did you import straight from Joel?


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## adrian (24 May 2010)

It's been a while since I gave up on this method of working holding...but I think I had blocks about a foot long and 2 inches wide. I secured a block with two holdfasts through 3/4" holes in my bench. Bench top is two layers of 3/4 inch plywood. They were secure at first, but eventually the block would slip. I don't remember if the holdfasts would loosen up at that point of not. The Veritas one worked better for me. 

I got my holdfasts direct from Joel.


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## wizer (24 May 2010)

I was more curious about the thickness. I think anything too thick or too thin wouldn't work with this style of hold fast. 

What did you do with them?


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## adrian (24 May 2010)

wizer":17zua93w said:


> I was more curious about the thickness. I think anything too thick or too thin wouldn't work with this style of hold fast.



The thickness was 1/2 - 3/4 inch. 



> What did you do with them?



I think they would work well for holding things down (as opposed to keeping things from sliding) so I haven't completely given up on finding an application for them some day.


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