# Understanding MDF



## Mark18PLL

Good morning, 

I would be grateful of some advice on using mdf to make some furniture pieces, basically i would just like to get some pointers on which types to use and when its most suitable. 

They different types i am aware of are 
MDF
HDF
MR MDF - I know this is used in areas with higher moisture - bathrooms etc
Valchromat

If you were to make furniture using any of these and wanted it to be decent quality, what would you use. For example i know MR MDF is rated for moisture areas but is it also good for non moisture areas because it is stronger?

Thanks 

Mark


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## porker

I'm not a pro like some on here but I only use MRMDF now. My local supplier stocks Medite which is far better than the fluffy non MR stuff from the sheds. No idea if it is stronger but it cuts far cleaner and is just generally nicer to use and costs just a little more. 

There are a few people here that are dissmissive of MDF and that is fine, but used in the correct way and joined correctly it is a great material. Take a look at 10 minute workshop on Youtube if you haven't already. Peter (also on this forum) has done loads of videos of his built in furniture covering almost every aspect of building, joining and finishing.


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## Droogs

Of all the different types of fibreboard MDF is used in the vast majority of furniture that is mass produced. The cheaper end of the market uses chipboard, then it is types of fibreboard and then moving up to blockboard and then plywood and then finally solid wood.

Most bespoke makers (those making fitted furniture) use mostly MRMDF (if not using decent plywood) for the things they make as it is far superior to the ordinary MDF as the resins used make it much more durable. It also has a much cleaner edge when worked, is easier to seal and the face takes a finish much more easily and cleanly (smoothly) than the cheaper stuff.

If you do use regular MDF avoid that which the big box stores sell, it is sh 1 te. Look to buy Kronospan, Medite or buy from suppliers such as Meyer. Meyer will sell direct and deliver; their site below:






MDF | Meyer Timber Wood Based Panels


MDF,Meyer Timber Wood Based Panels




meyertimber.com


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## billw

Valchromat is basically MRMDF isn't it?

Whatever it's made of absolutely honks btw.


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## Doug B

This is worth a read @Mark18PLL , MDF vs HDF - The difference between MDF and HDF boards although it’s about skirting etc it has some good information & interesting links.


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## Mark18PLL

billw said:


> Valchromat is basically MRMDF isn't it?
> 
> Whatever it's made of absolutely honks btw.


Not as far as i am aware but i could be wrong


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## doctor Bob

I thought it was MR MDF as well, with a colour through it.


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## Mark18PLL

I feel quite confident making something that is not overly complex. The reason i have been looking at MDF is that i am working from my garage and like many people space is at a premium. Using wood there is some preparation involved in that, i may need to plane or thickness the material, glue lengths together to make larger pieces etc. I am aware that i can ask the woodyard to do this for me but it just adds to the cost, where as with mdf i can design my piece and cut to suit. Also wood can be quite expensive, where mdf is quite cheap. 

Please fee free to correct me if you think i am wrong.

Thanks


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## Mark18PLL

If i wanted to make a decent quality media unit/Tv stand with space underneath for AV equipment, would making it out of MRMDF look the part?


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## pcb1962

Mark18PLL said:


> If i wanted to make a decent quality media unit/Tv stand with space underneath for AV equipment, would making it out of MRMDF look the part?


You could use a veneered MDF and edge band the visible edges.


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## AJB Temple

If you use veneered MDF then you need a means of getting very clean cuts. Such as a track saw with a sharp blade. As for an AV cabinet in MDF, it depends on the design to deal with the weight loading. MDF is not the best material for making strong conventional joints. It depends what your view of "decent quality" is. Knock down units of Ikea type are cheap. easy to replicate if you can do accurate and clean cuts. If you want to better that, then I would be going down the solid wood route or 24mm birch ply and fit a solid wood edge band.


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## Spectric

Don't do what I did and confuse cheap and nasty chipboard with MDF, I had a moment that comes with being / getting older!!


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## Bm101

Iron on edge band is definitely my choice when making cupboards etc for my house. Definitely not commercially! I have this saw bought 2nd hand on here. Bosch GKS 12 V-26 (2 x 2.0 Ah, GAL 1230 CV, L-BOXX) 12 V Circular Saw With a couple of saw horses, clamps, a straight edge and care taken I can cut to a good degree of accuracy. A tracksaw would probably be better in some ways but I love that little saw. It's versatile. I use the iron on banding on any exposed edge and it's all painted. In my limited experience get a good supplier of meddite etc and cover any cut edge and even without a decent (pro) spray system you can achieve an excellent finish with care and good paint prep.

What no one has mentioned is the great advantage of mdf etc over real wood is its inherent stability. There's no seasonal, moisture movement. A huge consideration.


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## screwpainting

Make a bird box or something out of everything you think you could use, offcuts are easily available and cheap. That way you actually know what to expect rather than taking on board what others have found out.

Knowing is all with woodwork and you can't beat a good ponce about with stuff.


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## DBT85

I have a mrmdf boot (yes, boot) shelf drying from its first top coat as we speak. Also planning using it to make an av cabinet and plenty 9f other stuff. The likes of @petermillard and others made a good living from the stuff.

For painting the edges, just prime it, sand it, prime it, sand it and then paint as normal. The primer will raise the fibres and the sanding will smooth them back out and prevent the top coat from raising them further.


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## MikeK

billw said:


> Valchromat is basically MRMDF isn't it?
> 
> Whatever it's made of absolutely honks btw.



Valchromat is MDF-like, but it is not MDF or MRMDF. Here's a link to a description of Valchromat:









What is Valchromat? - Discover this innovative material


Everything you need to know about Valchromat such as; the history of the material, Valchromat Vs MDF, its features, advantages and so on.




woodandwire.co.uk


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## screwpainting

These bits and bobs work okay.









Confirmat Screws M7 x 50mm 100 Pack


Order online at Screwfix.com. Coarse thread. For use in lightweight carcass assembly where a right angled joint is required. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 5 minutes.



www.screwfix.com











Painting MDF Edges, Edging Tape For MDF edgeband.co.uk


We can offer you a great time saving solution to Painting MDF edges! Find out more about our Edging Tape for MDF by visiting our website today.



www.edgeband.co.uk


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## Mark18PLL

Bm101 said:


> Iron on edge band is definitely my choice when making cupboards etc for my house. Definitely not commercially! I have this saw bought 2nd hand on here. Bosch GKS 12 V-26 (2 x 2.0 Ah, GAL 1230 CV, L-BOXX) 12 V Circular Saw With a couple of saw horses, clamps, a straight edge and care taken I can cut to a good degree of accuracy. A tracksaw would probably be better in some ways but I love that little saw. It's versatile. I use the iron on banding on any exposed edge and it's all painted. In my limited experience get a good supplier of meddite etc and cover any cut edge and even without a decent (pro) spray system you can achieve an excellent finish with care and good paint prep.
> 
> What no one has mentioned is the great advantage of mdf etc over real wood is its inherent stability. There's no seasonal, moisture movement. A huge consideration.


Yes i agree about the stability. I know the edge band would look nice but what i would like to do is make some things for home and hopefully word will travel through family and friends, you never know what can happen. With the edge band i would be concerned with it causing problems further down the line if someone wanted me to make something with it on and it came off. 

I already have a track saw and some other useful equipment but the garage is slowly getting full lol


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## Mark18PLL

DBT85 said:


> I have a mrmdf boot (yes, boot) shelf drying from its first top coat as we speak. Also planning using it to make an av cabinet and plenty 9f other stuff. The likes of @petermillard and others made a good living from the stuff.
> 
> For painting the edges, just prime it, sand it, prime it, sand it and then paint as normal. The primer will raise the fibres and the sanding will smooth them back out and prevent the top coat from raising them further.



Yes i have watched quite a few of his youtube videos. 

I did study furniture making at college a year or so ago but like anything its a different game once you are out in the world. 

Lessons to learn but thankfully forums like this help make things happen.


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## MikeJhn

No need for edge banding, if you seal the surface sufficiently then painting will look as good on the edge as it does on the surface, I spray paint all



of my MDF, high build primer and two or three coats of whatever I am using, you can see in the pic that the edges seal well.


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## petermillard

Good advice above. Personally, I’d use MRMDF as the baseline - nothing to do with its moisture-resistant capabilities, it’s just a much better board than regular MDF, doesn’t cost much more, is readily available, takes paint well and is flat and stable. It cuts well, and there are lots of ways to join it back together again.

As others have said, its density means it will sag under its own weight so you need to be sensible about unsupported spans when designing, but for workpieces with a painted finish it’s hard to beat.

Manufacturers have their own naming conventions, but broadly there’s regular MDF (brown) MR MDF (green) flame retardant MDF (pink) and exterior MDF. Also from medite, Extreme MDF (Tricoya), but as I say, for most general cabinetry and painted pieces, MRMDF is the baseline, for me. Medite has a good website explaining the different types they produce. HTH P


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## Chris70

I’m surprised no one has yet mentioned the formaldehyde hazard when working with MDF and the need to take precautions. I’m very new to this hobby and do like MRMDF’s stability and finish, versus plywood, but a tad nervous of using it myself. Can someone soothe my paranoia? The powered respirators seem so expensive to me!


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## Mark18PLL

Is Kronospan a decent manufacturer?


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## sploo

Chris70 said:


> I’m surprised no one has yet mentioned the formaldehyde hazard when working with MDF and the need to take precautions. I’m very new to this hobby and do like MRMDF’s stability and finish, versus plywood, but a tad nervous of using it myself. Can someone soothe my paranoia? The powered respirators seem so expensive to me!


At least in the UK (and rest of Europe?) MDF is now low formaldehyde. However, it's still awful stuff to cut. Believe me, a powered respirator is very cheap vs your lungs.


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## DBT85

Chris70 said:


> I’m surprised no one has yet mentioned the formaldehyde hazard when working with MDF and the need to take precautions. I’m very new to this hobby and do like MRMDF’s stability and finish, versus plywood, but a tad nervous of using it myself. Can someone soothe my paranoia? The powered respirators seem so expensive to me!


Watch the video from peter about formaldehyde. 

More is released from an orange than some mdf. Its all made to meet the legal requirements.


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## doctor Bob

I cut it all day long. I have good extraction, my health is fine. 
I'm more worried about hardwood dust.
The only people I ever see in this industry with work related health problems are old turners.


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## sploo

doctor Bob said:


> I cut it all day long. I have good extraction, my health is fine.
> I'm more worried about hardwood dust.
> The only people I ever see in this industry with work related health problems are old turners.


I suspect there's a fair bit of personal variation (like the guys that smoke 20 a day and live well until they're 90+, vs the guy that smokes little and goes down with lung cancer at 50).

Having been a bit of a silly boy in my youth, and cut way too much MDF in a small garage, with little to no PPE, I'm certain I've not done my lungs any good - and it's sensitised me to the dust quite badly.

Wearing a powered respirator for a whole ~8 hour shift would not be my idea of fun, but for us "home gamers", a Trend AirShield Pro (or equivalent) is a relatively small investment vs the value of your lungs, and is perfectly fine for a few hours of cutting duties. I only wish I'd bought one ten years earlier.


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## AJB Temple

MDF is almost invariably in sheet form. Most of us I imagine will cut it with a track saw. Personally I don't use a lot of MDF but when I do I cut MDF without wearing a mask, but I link the tracksaw (Mafell - so there is no side port) to a good Festool vacuum and there is no discernible dust. I am asthmatic and the slightest thing sets me off. Good extraction is key. 

I'm not surprised turners get issues. Your head is always close to the work and it is very hard to get really effective dust collection on a lathe in my (limited) experience.


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## sploo

AJB Temple said:


> I'm not surprised turners get issues. Your head is always close to the work and it is very hard to get really effective dust collection on a lathe in my (limited) experience.


That's why I definitely wear the air fed mask when turning. For obvious reasons, the full face protection obviously helps too!


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## doctor Bob

I use the air fed mask if I have to enter the works toilet after the Christmas party.


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## sploo

doctor Bob said:


> I use the air fed mask if I have to enter the works toilet after the Christmas party.


I'm not sure that only an FFP3 filter is going to cut it. Definitely you'll be needing a Type A Organic Vapour filter


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## Spectric

Hi

I can recall a high build brush on primer used in autobody finishing, thick pea green goop that was resin based and when rubbed down with wet glass paper produced a glass finish, so what high build primer is being used on Mdf please?


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## Chris70

Thanks to all, for your reassurances. Looks like I'll need to start wearing protection when I eat my jaffas!


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## mg123

Meyer have just responded to my quote request, they do not deal with the public and only sell to trade apparently. 



Droogs said:


> Of all the different types of fibreboard MDF is used in the vast majority of furniture that is mass produced. The cheaper end of the market uses chipboard, then it is types of fibreboard and then moving up to blockboard and then plywood and then finally solid wood.
> 
> Most bespoke makers (those making fitted furniture) use mostly MRMDF (if not using decent plywood) for the things they make as it is far superior to the ordinary MDF as the resins used make it much more durable. It also has a much cleaner edge when worked, is easier to seal and the face takes a finish much more easily and cleanly (smoothly) than the cheaper stuff.
> 
> If you do use regular MDF avoid that which the big box stores sell, it is sh 1 te. Look to buy Kronospan, Medite or buy from suppliers such as Meyer. Meyer will sell direct and deliver; their site below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MDF | Meyer Timber Wood Based Panels
> 
> 
> MDF,Meyer Timber Wood Based Panels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meyertimber.com


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## porker

Spectric said:


> Hi
> 
> I can recall a high build brush on primer used in autobody finishing, thick pea green goop that was resin based and when rubbed down with wet glass paper produced a glass finish, so what high build primer is being used on Mdf please?



I just use Leyland MDF primer but have also used a 2 part polyester wood filler in the past for good results. I found it was pointless sanding the edge before applying primer, much better to sand after it has dried and repeat as the paint raises the fibres slightly then top coat.
I've seen a few projects with high gloss surfaces but never gone that far personally. On my home projects I tend to use face frames and solid wood edging often acting to thicken and strengthen shelving etc.


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## Droogs

@mg123 sorry about that I must have given them my HMRC UTR at some point and forgotten.

@porker & @Spectric I use Isopon or Proworx as my filler and Autopaints International for high etch and high build primers and then usually their 2 pack paint if it is a painted finish or if the customer wants something else then that. This is the finish i usually look to aim for in something glossy


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## Droogs

If something has a routed or moulded edge and is made from MDF, I usually run the bit to create what i want and then really press on a layer of filler and leave for 24 hours and run the router/moulder again to give the best possible edge finish that only needs a little bit of touch up sanding ad then primer


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## DBT85

mg123 said:


> Meyer have just responded to my quote request, they do not deal with the public and only sell to trade apparently.


If they only sell to trade but are happy to sell in small quantities then it's really rarely hard to get an account.


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## mg123

DBT85 said:


> If they only sell to trade but are happy to sell in small quantities then it's really rarely hard to get an account.


They've provided an alternative supplier who work on their behalf so still possible but likely to be more expensive. I'll give them a call later in the week to place an order (cost dependant of course)


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## pe2dave

MikeJhn said:


> No need for edge banding, if you seal the surface sufficiently then painting will look as good on the edge as it does on the surface, I spray paint all of my MDF, high build primer and two or three coats of whatever I am using,



what is 'high build primer' please? I've not heard of it.


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## MikeJhn

I used Morrells Pre-Catalyst Lacquer on the white wardrobe doors posted earlier, covers and sprays well with only a very small amount of thinning, most importantly if does not sag when using a HVLP sprayer, the warm air seems to help adhesion and a very quick drying time, less dust contamination.

pe2dave: Seems they have changed the name and its now called Medium Solids Base Coat: Morrells 250 Medium Solids Basecoat - Wood Finishes Direct


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## rs6mra

MikeJhn said:


> No need for edge banding, if you seal the surface sufficiently then painting will look as good on the edge as it does on the surface


what high build primer do you use and how many times do you apply this?


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## doctor Bob

We just use Morrells pre cat as well, hit the sides everytime you spray a face, so sides will get 4 coats, works fine.


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## MikeJhn

rs6mra said:


> what high build primer do you use and how many times do you apply this?


Apply sand, Apply sand, until the pores are filled and its smooth, normally two applications is enough, if applying by brush may do it in one.


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## recipio

I can't find MRMDF locally so have resorted to glueing plain hardboard together as an experiment for making veneered boxes. Four pieces of hardboard and two veneers come to an ideal 12mm It works a treat and machining joints is a lot crisper than using MDF . I should find MRMDF at some stage and was just wondering if there are any issues glueing and veneering it as it has a high resin content. ?


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## MikeJhn

Had not mentioned before, but all of my work is with standard MDF as it's the only thing available where I am.


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## Misterdog

They don't level ceilings like they used to..


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## DBT85

Misterdog said:


> They don't level ceilings like they used to..


There are rooms in my 200 year old house that would dream of being that good!


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## Nelsun

Misterdog said:


> They don't level ceilings like they used to..



There are rooms in my 40 year old extension that would dream of being that good! The 100+ year old original bits regularly point and laugh at them if you listen carefully


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## Misterdog

My 155 YO ceilings used to be wonky, but I unwonked them.. 

That was the easy part, some of the walls were almost as bad with stone rubble construction. Gotta love Carlite bonding coat pads and plasterboard stuck to them with plasterboard adhesive.
I even made timber corner beads using dowel grooved and glued to mesh bead.


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## DBT85

Wonk adds character!


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## MikeJhn

The picture above with the wonky ceiling is on a 500year old stone house, which has been subject to subsidence, builders did not do foundations in those days. 

Additional problems are the walls aren't vertical and not at right angles to each other.


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## Nelsun

DBT85 said:


> Wonk adds character!


Wonk fills swear jars... and causes random tools to fly across rooms as they fill up.


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## Spectric

MikeJhn said:


> The picture above with the wonky ceiling is on a 500year old stone house, which has been subject to subsidence, builders did not do foundations in those days.


It may be wonky but at least it is capable of being wonky and still standing. How many of these new lego build houses built in the last twenty years will still be standing in 100 years let alone 500.


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## DBT85

Nelsun said:


> Wonk fills swear jars... and causes random tools to fly across rooms as they fill up.


This is also true!


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