# Commercial workshop- My kit



## Doctor (16 May 2009)

Ok guys here's my workshop, 2250 sq ft , built about three years ago, we were in a converted barn prior to this, this building is all triple insulated and the white interior keeps it nice and bright. 
It portrays a great image when we bring clients to see their furniture

The building has nice big roller shutters, forklifts get in no problem. We have two sign written vans, both Vito's bought last year as a bit of a tax dodge.
The dog is Billy, bit of a part timer to be honest






2.6m cut, Robland saw, not the greatest of quality but good enough






1 metre wide speed sander, 8hp, best bit of kit in the unit, £9000 well spent






3metre spray booth, extracted through the back with a 3kw fan






The edgebander, nice bit of kit, saves huge amounts of time






Extraction system is a Fercell 20 bag system, 8hp, we used to have 3 small ones but this is much better, steel ducting system






Couple of spindle moulders both about 5hp, cast iron, can't be beaten for reliability and price. Having 2 spindles means I can set them up to run doors, one doing the profile the other the scribe and I don't have to keep breaking them down.











Multico rip saw, 4hp






16" overhander and thicknesser, sedwick, not a bad bit of kit but would be so much better if the outfeed table could be raised and lowered






Edge sander, very useful, shoot all the doors in with this






Timber rack, useful way of storing timber in a small space






Picture of all the ducting






Panel storage with sanding belts stored above






For me its the perfect workshop, don't really need much more equipment, next purchase will be to upgrade the panel saw.

We also want to take the unit next door when it becomes available to convert it into a showroom.


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## thomvic (16 May 2009)

Not bad - for an amateur's garden shed. :lol:


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## Ironballs (16 May 2009)

Very nice set up, bet you're proud of that.

One thing I noticed though, you'd obviously got your dog hooked up to the mains but I couldn't see any extraction running off her


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## wizer (16 May 2009)

v.nice setup Doc. Need a tea-boy? I'm cheap


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

Ironballs":36c4zh8b said:


> Very nice set up, bet you're proud of that.
> 
> One thing I noticed though, you'd obviously got your dog hooked up to the mains but I couldn't see any extraction running off her



He's a boy, I believe there is extraction built in, seems to blow heavily out of its buttocks :lol: :lol:


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## woodbloke (16 May 2009)

Doc - you missed out mentioning* the *most essential item in any commercial shop ...it's behind the edge sander in the corner :wink: (and it's not the pillar drill or cramps)...no benches or hand tools though?  - Rob


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

Oh yea, the kettle, I once used that in 2003 I think it was, tea breaks are for whimps


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## OPJ (16 May 2009)

Ironballs":1el9nj4u said:


> One thing I noticed though, you'd obviously got your dog hooked up to the mains...



I was about to ask the same thing!!  ...So, is it 230v or three phase? :roll: :wink:

Very nice-looking workshop, even without mentioning the DeWalt mitre saw near the timber store! So, you work together with several other people, as opposed to simply sharing a workshop? Sounds interesting.


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## Joints (16 May 2009)

MY favourite thing was the timber rack!


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## Karl (16 May 2009)

Very nice 'shop Doc. 

I'm surprised nobody's asked yet - how much do you reckon you spent kitting it out? The extraction looks quite a beast!

Cheers

Karl


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

OPJ":q5ac84db said:


> Ironballs":q5ac84db said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice-looking workshop, even without mentioning the DeWalt mitre saw near the timber store! So, you work together with several other people, as opposed to simply sharing a workshop? Sounds interesting.



We have 3 big dewalt SCMS, the one near the timber is worn out and we just use it for cross cutting planks, the other is mounted for cutting mitres, and the third is for fitting.






There are 3 full time and one part time worker in the workshop and two sub contracted fitters.


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

Karl":1wedwdwk said:


> Very nice 'shop Doc.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody's asked yet - how much do you reckon you spent kitting it out? The extraction looks quite a beast!
> 
> ...



I reckon about £50,000 on machinery to replace like for like


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## woodbloke (16 May 2009)

Doctor":f4zq9jxd said:


> Oh yea, the kettle, I once used that in 2003 I think it was, tea breaks are for whimps


If you tried to enforce that point of view with the people I work with, you might find yourself staring down the wrong end of an SA80 :lol: :lol: - Rob


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

Only joking, we have tea at 10.30 and 3.45, lunch at 1pm.
I'm officially an employee as it's a Ltd company so I am entitled to my break as well :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (16 May 2009)

Very nice, Bob.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## newt (16 May 2009)

impressive extraction, nice shop.


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## TheTiddles (16 May 2009)

But are you really happy??

Aidan


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## JonnyD (16 May 2009)

Very nice shop there Bob. It looks well set out and uses the space well and I like the timber rack ideas. Do you have a Bandsaw?. I think I would have made do with one van though and bought an Altendorf  .

Jon


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

JonnyD":3oix39jc said:


> I think I would have made do with one van though and bought an Altendorf  .
> 
> Jon



Problem is we both need a vehicle, I know altendorf's are good but i'm sure I couldn't drive it home.
The next purchase will be an Altendorf, my old work place had one, love em.


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## billw (16 May 2009)

Ahhhh the Vito - good choice. Have seen them hooned round country lanes - we used to use one as a track support vehicle and it's amazing how they handle even when loaded up with tyres, tools and spare parts!

ps don't forget to get that Evora out on track 8)


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

billw":3ranev7n said:


> Ahhhh the Vito - good choice. Have seen them hooned round country lanes - we used to use one as a track support vehicle and it's amazing how they handle even when loaded up with tyres, tools and spare parts!
> 
> ps don't forget to get that Evora out on track 8)



I think the Vito handles really bad, lost the back end no end of times, virtually undrivable in snow, gets stuck in 1/2" of snow.
I had a day at the hethal track last month in an exige, now that was fun, all courtesy of Lotus :lol:


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## billw (16 May 2009)

Losing the back end isn't bad - it's fun!!

I've been round Hethel in an Exige too, and to be honest there was more than one occasion on which I suspected my life expectancy was being considerable curtailed :lol: 

That damned tyre wall on the main straight, it took me until lap 3 to keep my eyes open on the approach.


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## joiner_sim (16 May 2009)

Nice looking commercial workshop there! Really clean and tidy as well, compared to some of them that I've been in! :lol:


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## Doctor (16 May 2009)

We aren't the tidiest but its normally presentable, I hate workshops where there is dung everywhere, to me it just shouts "disorganised", we normally have 4 or 5 jobs on the go at anyone time, so space is at a premium.
Also a lot of clients visit the shop and it needs to look clean and tidy.
We also have another unit for storage of completed jobs prior to being delivered.


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## joiner_sim (16 May 2009)

We have another unit for storage/ finishing. So we keep our stuff there.

We can have anything between 5-10 jobs on the go at anytime. We used to have a workshop labourer/cleaner but the company used thew crunch as an excuse to get rid...... as a result there was a massive bust up a few weeks ago about the whole state of the shop. It was becoming unsafe, but generally now things are a bit better. Also it's the same situation as yourself, we also get some of our clients visiting and it does not give a very goos impression!


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## Doug B (16 May 2009)

Doctor":1cs4caz1 said:


> I think the Vito handles really bad, lost the back end no end of times, virtually undrivable in snow, gets stuck in 1/2" of snow



My mate bought one a couple of years back, says exactly the same thing, he recons the traction control isn`t designed for snow. :roll: :roll: :evil: 

Having said that they obviously stop quicker than transits, He has a "Mercsit" at the moment, after he managed to stop but the guy behind didn`t :shock: :shock:

Looks a nice shop by the way, certainly worked in a lot worse.


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## BradNaylor (17 May 2009)

Interesting stuff Doc,

I'm suprised at how small your shop is considering the amount of stuff you turn out - you must have a very efficient operation.



Doctor":lhgw5rcw said:


> We also have another unit for storage of completed jobs prior to being delivered.



I suspect that this has a lot to do with it.

The bain of my life is working round finished orders which are waiting to go out. We've currently got 4 big display cabinets cluttering up our shop which were due to be delivered in February - the customer has paid in full but 'isn't ready for them' yet.

](*,) 

I'm intrigued by the edgebander. Looking at the kind of top-end work you do I wouldn't have thought there was much call for one - or is it mainly for kitchen cabinet carcasses?

I agree totally about the two spindles. I'd be tempted by one of these if they were available in the UK







Keep up the good work!

Cheers
Brad


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## Doctor (17 May 2009)

BradNaylor":1t3rjtz6 said:


> I'm intrigued by the edgebander. Looking at the kind of top-end work you do I wouldn't have thought there was much call for one - or is it mainly for kitchen cabinet carcasses?
> 
> I agree totally about the two spindles. I'd be tempted by one of these if they were available in the UK
> 
> ...



Th edge bander is purely for kitchen carcases, we do all framed kitchens but the carcases still have to be edged top back and bottoms to be presentable.
It saves days compared with doing it by hand.

I like the spindle moulder picture, does it exist?

one of our contracts is making bookcases for Sotheby's, some times we do 250 at a time, hence the need for more storage.
Also completed kitchens take up loads of space, and any delay in fitting is just a pain if they are floating around the workshop.


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## Marky (17 May 2009)

Question is Bob, Have you tidied up the little office at the back (if I remember rightly).

Mark


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## neilyweely (17 May 2009)

Is that spindle moulder real??

The 'shop is amazing, one day........ :roll: 

Neil


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## BradNaylor (17 May 2009)

Yes, that spindle moulder does exist!

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Three-S ... aper/G9933

I'm not sure about the build quality of this particular one, but the idea is fantastic!

I'm thinking of building a 3-headed router table along similar lines. 

Cheers
Brad


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## NewtoWood (17 May 2009)

A shop that dreams are made of - I am waiting for the day I win the lottery and can go through a catalogue and buy whatever I want.


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## Doctor (17 May 2009)

NewtoWood":1wlx2tqy said:


> A shop that dreams are made of - I am waiting for the day I win the lottery and can go through a catalogue and buy whatever I want.



Well that's not my workshop, I just buy what is needed and will speed things up, I really don't get the hand tool guys who have 20 hand planes.


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## Mattty (17 May 2009)

Very nice setup Doc. It looks like a very slick operation. 8)


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## BradNaylor (17 May 2009)

NewtoWood":leb8515z said:


> A shop that dreams are made of - I am waiting for the day I win the lottery and can go through a catalogue and buy whatever I want.



As the Doc would be the first to say, there is nothing in his workshop that you wouldn't expect to find in any high-end commercial production unit.

These things don't come from lottery wins; they come as a natural progression from years of bloody hard work, sacrifice, and refining the production process so that it as quick and efficient as possible.

There's no time for dreams...

Brad


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## Doctor (17 May 2009)

BradNaylor":os8l9xuv said:


> As the Doc would be the first to say, there is nothing in his workshop that you wouldn't expect to find in any high-end commercial production unit.
> 
> These things don't come from lottery wins; they come as a natural progression from years of bloody hard work, sacrifice, and refining the production process so that it as quick and efficient as possible.
> 
> ...



Nicely put...


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## JonnyD (17 May 2009)

I would agree with you there Brad. I have been investing in and upgrading my workshop since i started 8 years ago. I have now got to the stage where i have got everything I need apart from maybe an edgebander and CNC router. Oh well another few years hard work then.

Jon


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## BradNaylor (17 May 2009)

On the subject of edgebanders, for the small ammount of use I would get out of one I am drawn towrds this sort of thing

http://www.trimbridge.com/TL20-bench-ma ... bander.php

Are they complete rubbish?

Brad


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## JonnyD (17 May 2009)

I dont have a great need for a edgebander but have been considering this one which can do up to 3mm abs edging

http://www.ney.co.uk/machines/new-produ ... pm2000.htm

Jon


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## Doctor (17 May 2009)

You get what you pay for Brad, more so with an edgebander, I think it's expensive for a tiddler, but I've never used that type before so you never know, looks as though it wouldn't handle anything large.

Reckon Jonny's choice looks quite good


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## NewtoWood (18 May 2009)

Doctor":3nb7nqls said:


> BradNaylor":3nb7nqls said:
> 
> 
> > As the Doc would be the first to say, there is nothing in his workshop that you wouldn't expect to find in any high-end commercial production unit.
> ...



Well thats me well and truly put in my place! Perhaps I should have stayed lurking.


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## lurker (18 May 2009)

Sorry folks - I'm not at all impressed - its just a place of work where you have to get stuff done to upkeep the equipment, make profit & put bread on the table.

Not what woodwork is about for me. The idea of having to earn a living from it (laughable in my case) would ruin it for me. 

Don't get me wrong I admire Doc & the rest, but I don't envy them.


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## billw (18 May 2009)

lurker":3n0rtvvf said:


> Sorry folks - I'm not at all impressed - its just a place of work where you have to get stuff done to upkeep the equipment, make profit & put bread on the table.
> 
> Not what woodwork is about for me. The idea of having to earn a living from it (laughable in my case) would ruin it for me.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I admire Doc & the rest, but I don't envy them.



'tis two very different worlds brought together by the fact they both work in wood. On one hand you have people who need uniform results on large scale projects done as quickly as possible to keep their business ticking over, and on the other hand people whose work is more suited to hand tools, and low volume.

I'd hate to have a piece of bespoke furniture knocked up in Doctor's workshop using just a load of machines, as much as I'd hate to be paying top whack for an independent cabinet maker to hand build an entire kitchen from solid oak.

I guess one of the benefits of this forum is that you have a healthy mix of both camps, rather than the answer to everything being "always use a hand plane" or "make it out of MDF".


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## Doctor (18 May 2009)

I think I make nice furniture, bit harsh saying you wouldn't want my furniture, kitchens are just a small part


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## billw (18 May 2009)

Yes I think my comment came across a little stronger than I intended


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## Ironballs (18 May 2009)

NewtoWood":xlupwnuh said:


> Doctor":xlupwnuh said:
> 
> 
> > BradNaylor":xlupwnuh said:
> ...



Nah, wouldn't worry about it, Doc and Brad are fairly forthright in their views but both are good chaps. Well, mostly.... :wink: 

Stick around, you'll be made to feel more than welcome


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## EddieJ (18 May 2009)

Being controversial to everyone else, I think the set up looks a cluttered mess.
As a 'commercial' set up, there are many aspects of the workshop and its facilities, that could or will get you into hot water if the HSE were to pay a visit.


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## Doctor (18 May 2009)

Arrh well, can't please em all.


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## BradNaylor (19 May 2009)

EddieJ":3keof5er said:


> Being controversial to everyone else, I think the set up looks a cluttered mess.
> As a 'commercial' set up, there are many aspects of the workshop and its facilities, that could or will get you into hot water if the HSE were to pay a visit.



:lol: 

Personally, I've always had a bit of a tidy up before taking photos of my workshop. It looks like the Doc just fired away at lunchtime while his lads were outside eating their whelks or jellied eels or whatever it is that Essex boys have in their snap tins.

I don't agree with the HSE comments but I am struggling to detect a logical flow of work through the Doc's workshop. The machines appear to be set up in a slightly random fashion and the wood storage areas seem a long way from the saw.

Perhaps I'm not getting the full feel of the place from the photos, however.

:wink: 

Cheers
Brad


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## Doctor (19 May 2009)

open your eyes, the rip saw and planer are 10ft from the timber rack, the panel saw is for PANELS. 2 saws!!!!
As for the HSE comments, I find that insulting, I run a good shop, my insurance company does a full check each year and we follow all their advise at great expense, it may not be perfect but i know its better than most.
I would appreciate a PM so you can highlight the errors, some are obvious like the tins of paint, lunch time delivery.
However if there are issues a PM would be better than a public hanging.


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## BradNaylor (19 May 2009)

Ironballs":11k06y85 said:


> Nah, wouldn't worry about it, Doc and Brad are fairly forthright in their views *but both are good chaps. Well, mostly*.... :wink:



You mean I am and he isn't?

:lol: 

Seriously NewtoWood, stick around. 

I'm sorry if we jumped down your throat; it's just that guys who have sweated for years building up a decent workshop and business, remortgaging the house and sacrificing family life in the process, get a little bit touchy about being called 'lucky'!

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Brad


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## lurker (19 May 2009)

As a safety professional the place looks very good to me.
The spacings around the more dangerous equipment is excellent.

Too many untrue silly stories about the HSE.
They realise you have to get work done & would not expect the place to ressemble an operating theatre.


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## OPJ (19 May 2009)

As far as H&S goes, I can only see one thing that would really concern me and that's the big roll of whateverthatis on top of your speed sander. Their concern would probably be that it could roll off and crush someone! :shock: Bits of wood and other things lying about but, I'd assume they get tidied up and used elsewhere.  I was going to mention those long lengths sticking out of your timber racks but, they do appear to be above head height from the photographs.


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## Paul Chapman (19 May 2009)

I'd be more worried about that bird wot's just nicked Brad's packet of crisps :shock: :shock: :lol:


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## WoodnDesign (19 May 2009)

OPJ":2frubvro said:


> As far as H&S goes, I can only see one thing that would really concern me and that's the big roll of whateverthatis on top of your speed sander. Their concern would probably be that it could roll off and crush someone! :shock: Bits of wood and other things lying about but, I'd assume they get tidied up and used elsewhere.  I was going to mention those long lengths sticking out of your timber racks but, they do appear to be above head height from the photographs.


 Ya. I see power cables/air lines an a saw on the floor, cardboard box/bucket on spay shop roof.. I know from working in Commercial workshops, it's never easy, not to fall into the trap.. very nice other wise.. Oh, Whot NO lathe.. :lol: :lol:... David....


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## Mattty (19 May 2009)

I think its amazing the fact that Doc's shop is being pulled up for being unsafe. It's definately one of the best i've seen with regards to HSE. We could all find fault with anyones place of work if we looked hard enough, but in this industry Doc's look well above average to me.

Jeeez i better not post any current pic's of my shop...


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## Doctor (19 May 2009)

That big round object is a roll of light weight cardboard for wrapping stuff up.
The boxes on the spray booth contain foam sanding blocks, the "bucket" is a spray pot it weighs about an ounce..
I run a great shop, its clutter free, please remember its a working environment.
I train all my staff, have signed records of training etc etc etc
Who else has receipts of over £3000 spent on insurance requirements to ensure the safety of my employees.
Honestly wish I hadn't bothered posting the pictures now.
The person who originally brought up the HSE issues has now contacted me and is now saying, its a couple of minor points only.
To be pulled apart by a few of you is insulting, it implies I don't care about my employees safety, what a load of tosh, I gave one of them the day of a while back (paid) because he would have been in the shop on his own for a few hours, I care.
There is a £10,000 extraction system to protect their health.
Regards Bob, totally cabbage off


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## OPJ (19 May 2009)

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that your workshop is generally unsafe and I don't believe many others did either. As I said, I noticed a couple of things that _might_ have concerned the HSE but, generally, it has the look of 'live' workshop that gets plenty of use.

I'm sorry if you found my comments insulting, that was not my intention. I can honestly say that I have worked in _two_ workshops that weren't up to scratch, compared with yours and, as an employee, I have _never_ had to sign on the dotted line - come to think of it, I don't recally seeing a contract of employment...! :shock: One of the guys I used to work with (a "superior") clearly didn't know what the letters H and S stood for. :x 

Again, I apologise.


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## Creampuff (19 May 2009)

Doctor":3vqx13g7 said:


> I think I make nice furniture, bit harsh saying you wouldn't want my furniture, kitchens are just a small part




All I'd like to add to this post is wow... thats one sexy piece of furniture, beautiful work


Regards

Andy


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## Ironballs (19 May 2009)

You should see my garage, the amount of times I've banged my head on the sliding carriage on the table saw is untrue, I have wood propped up all over the place, machines everywhere, dust, random objects on the floor, bike handlebars to negotiate and a bloody great awkward thing on wheels in the middle with more than a few litres of super unleaded sloshing around in it.

Docs place looks great to me!


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## Doctor (19 May 2009)

BradNaylor":7up7pdad said:


> Ironballs":7up7pdad said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, wouldn't worry about it, Doc and Brad are fairly forthright in their views *but both are good chaps. Well, mostly*.... :wink:
> ...



I speak openly and honestly, I welcome all newcomers with open arms and a big hug, but, I am a cantankerous sod and speak my mind.
I like to think of this forum as a gentlemans club, with bouncers on the door to stop any riff raff getting in, they do an excellent job and threw me out on my buttocks a while back, however they left the back door open and I sneaked back in (with a mate) :lol:


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## BradNaylor (19 May 2009)

Doctor":2fn85p4d said:


> they do an excellent job and threw me out on my **** a while back, however they left the back door open and I sneaked back in (with a mate) :lol:



:lol: :lol: :lol: 

That'd be me then!

Cheers
Brad


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## Doctor (19 May 2009)

Shhhh, you fool, don't give the game away.....


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## BradNaylor (20 May 2009)

I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!


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## WoodnDesign (20 May 2009)

I know from working in Commercial workshops, it's never easy, not to fall into the trap.. very nice other wise.. Oh, Whot NO lathe.. Laughing Laughing... David....

Doc.. Looking through the posting. I forgot the whole reason for it. The insite to what is a wonderfully set up workshop.. And a moment of error.. I am so sorry, should I have up set you.. ... Judge not, less you are Judged... David


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## Doctor (18 Sep 2009)

Just for the record, I had an HSE surprise check yesterday, picked at random I hope :shock: The guy inspected my machinery, extraction, spray booth and record keeping, in all it took about an hour.

Conclusion, no HSE work needs to be undertaken, I run a very safe workshop.

I thank you :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## wizer (18 Sep 2009)

damnit it!  :lol:


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## matt (18 Sep 2009)

A legit question (i.e. not a slight on your H&S record intended or implied) but that dust extraction system... Does it filter >0.5 micron? Also, is it the sole method of dust protection or do you use other methods?

Genuinely curious.


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## big soft moose (18 Sep 2009)

lurker":1b8tmlrx said:


> Sorry folks - I'm not at all impressed - its just a place of work where you have to get stuff done to upkeep the equipment, make profit & put bread on the table.
> 
> Not what woodwork is about for me. The idea of having to earn a living from it (laughable in my case) would ruin it for me.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I admire Doc & the rest, but I don't envy them.



I know what you mean - I was breifly forced into becoming a "proffesional" turner/carver (plus running a buisness assmebling flatpack for the clueless) by the 2001 foot and mouth epidemic 

( I was a countryside contractor at the time and we got booted off about 99% of our clients sites more or less overnight) and I hated it it took all the fun out of what had previously been an enjoyable hobby (the turning & carving - not assembling flatpack for idiots). 

Once the epidemic was over and i was reemployed (by then as an events ranger) it was over a year before i touched my gouges/lathe again.

I like making things out of wood and I'm happy to earn a bit of extra folding by doing the occasional craft fair but I have no ambition to ever again do it on a proffesional basis.


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