# Great British Workshop on Wed



## Noel (7 Jan 2004)

Another UK workshop series starts tonight. This has to be better than previous efforts.
Details at http://www.homeandleisure.co.uk/
where, if you want to give H & L your details, you may win a "Home and Leisure Router Kit" worth 149 dabs (Trend T3 and table, BTW).
Would imagine most corded tools will be straight out of the Trend catalogue. 
Let's hope, at least, the series will be interestingly watchable.

Rgds

Noel


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## morrisminordriver (7 Jan 2004)

Ive just watched an episode of this, he made a nice contemporary looking coffee table out of American Walnut.

I think there was more than just the timber which was imported from the USA though ..... the layout of his "woodshop" was akin to "Stormin' Norm's" and it was fun to play "guess the technique" and be rewarded with views of visits to "sanding stations / router tables with pencilled reference marks / mitre saws with stop blocks / foam block brushes to lay the finish on before wiping off the excess / leving panels to "float" in the rebate - no glue needed here....." all a la NYW.

I suppose it just goes to show that Norm is still the main man when it comes to power tooled woodworking.

When is someone going to produce a show that doesnt rely on power tools I wonder?.

MMD


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## Anonymous (7 Jan 2004)

I see Norm has a new show here in good old blighty..............but where did all the body hair and check shirts go


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## Gill (8 Jan 2004)

No "cheeky chappie" presenters, no guests to do the work, attractive projects that most hobbyists could attempt in their own shop, machinery that doesn't cost an arm and a leg (although the lack of guards on the tools might ), effective instructions on how to measure and cut the timber ... could this _really _be a British WW show on Home & Leisure?

Okay, the presenter might have a slight touch of strine about him but I thought it was the best British WW programme H&L have produced to date. Norm needs to look over his shoulder because there's competition right on his heels!

Yours

Gill


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## CYC (8 Jan 2004)

I saw the first episode last night and I am delighted to see it's the NYW in metrics, yeaaaaahhhh!
It's also very nice to see the program and recognise the tools available to us. I mean if you see something nice there, you know you can get it easily, have a look at it even in the shops or the in the Trend Catalogue :wink: :wink: (Noely, you knew all along).

I am not so good with spotting accents (I am french originally, please don't hate me for it) but he did sound Australian to me. Or is it an English accent I never heard before??


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## gidon (8 Jan 2004)

Watched the first couple of episodes and enjoyed them. It should be called the British NYW - because it is a direct copy. Just like changing rooms New Zealand or whatever I suppose. I reckon Norm has had to agree to this prog being made it's so close to his. 
For me (personal taste) the projects aren't up to Norm's design-wise - I like that Shaker style stuff. But well explained and executed none-the-less.
And MMD - he did get out a chisel for 2 seconds on the second episode! 
I bet David Free will get teased back home for appearing on a program called the Great BRITISH Woodshop!
Cheers
Gidon


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## Bone (8 Jan 2004)

definitely an Aussie twang to my ear, although I can never differentiate between Aus and Kiwi, so I may be wrong.

I agree with others comments, NYW with a european twist. Shame all the machines are sans safety gaurds, it would be nice to see things demonstrated the correct way. _(I did wince when he used the surface planer with a nice close up of his fingers by the unguarded blades.)_

Still it will be interesting to watch just to see machine we know and recognise.


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## Alf (8 Jan 2004)

Oh joy. No safety guards and 2 seconds use of a chisel. I'll rush out and get me dish... :? Oh well, at least it sounds like their moving in the right direction anyway. BTW, was it wall to wall Jet machines, as promised on Jet's website? In which case I have to ask; which bandsaw? (Fixated? Me?  )

Cheers, Alf


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## Signal (8 Jan 2004)

Alf,

yup, seemd to be wall to wall JET, didn't actually see any markings
though as most of the stuff is taped up.

Made me roll my eyes on the last epsiode, get the usual, Gaurds
are really important, protect your pinkies, My gaurds are removed for photogenics spiel

He then does a plunge cut on the table saw which would be impossible
with out removig the gaurd. Also noted a distinct lack of a mask.

Apart from that it was quite enjoyable, as gill said, reasonable projects
and machinery that most of us are familiar with

Signal


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## Newbie_Neil (8 Jan 2004)

Hi all

I only saw the start of the second show where he was using the Trend M&T jig. Out of interest, what where his M&T joints like?

The little that I saw seemed to be miles better than John/Boys etc.

I will make sure that I watch it next week.

Cheers
Neil


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## Signal (8 Jan 2004)

Neil,

must admit thought of ou when I saw that, dont know much about the
jig but he only did the tennons on it. Must admit they didnt look that tight
to me. Sure I saw the pieces sloping about a bit

Signal


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## Anonymous (8 Jan 2004)

Hi Signal

Thanks for the information.

Did he say why didn't he do the mortices on the jig? It seems strange because you don't have to make any changes to the jig.

Cheers
Neil


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## Signal (8 Jan 2004)

Neil,

nah, he just bombed over to the table,
I think it may well of been why they where sloppy,
certainly cant blame the jog if you only let it do half the
job <G>

Signal


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## CYC (8 Jan 2004)

In the first episode, he did the tenons AND mortice on the jig. I didn't see the second one (taped it, so I'll have a good look at how tight it was later).

How do you do yours Neil?


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## Signal (8 Jan 2004)

CYC,

did he, I only saw three maybee I missed the 1st one 

Signal


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## CYC (8 Jan 2004)

Yep, just before the break if I remember well.


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## Newbie_Neil (8 Jan 2004)

Hi CYC

Happy new year to you.



CYC":keb16zyy said:


> In the first episode, he did the tenons AND mortice on the jig. I didn't see the second one (taped it, so I'll have a good look at how tight it was later).
> 
> How do you do yours Neil?



I use the jig for both. I set up one router to do the mortice and the other to do the tenon. With this set up it becomes much easier, because without any change to the jig you can produce a mortice or a tenon.

Cheers
Neil


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## sawdustalley (8 Jan 2004)

Yes I was amazed - I would like to know who the hell he is, I might ring up H&L and get some details for the *soon to return* SDA WW TV section.

One thing which did water me off a bit, was the fact that he was using what looked like a Uni-Saw (Obviously imported) and certainly he was using a Beismyser (sp) fence!
Which would have certainly been imported and cost alot. (I havent seen them as yet for sale in UK)

He should buy some bessey clamps :shock:

The furniture produced was good, the presenting was clear, and the editing was good (Thats what I feel mucks up a lot of these shows - what do the editors know about the exact parts filmed people want to see!?)

It just didnt have the feel to it that NYW does, and I think it was too obviously a lame copy-cat attempt - why don't they actually try to come up with something original but good (They have done the original before but not the good)


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## CYC (9 Jan 2004)

Many returns Neil. I would have thought you would be using a dedicated morticer! :wink: 

SDA, I agree with you, it's a shame he isn't using a table saw that most of us have. Like your scheppach, which we know now is the most used table on this forum. But all the same we are all familiar with his Trend jigs and tools. As long as he doesn't come up with a dado blade next!!!
I think this is a very good program. So far, the 3 projects he has done are interesting and well excecuted. I hope this program will leave long and prosper (said like a true vulcan).
The similarity with the NYW is certainly wanted, even the front door is the same, the large sliding door hahahaha


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## Newbie_Neil (9 Jan 2004)

Hi CYC



CYC":ejj1s9yv said:


> Many returns Neil. I would have thought you would be using a dedicated morticer! :wink:



If I had the money, I would buy the Leigh FMT jig which is adjustable in increments of 1/thou. It is absolutely beautiful.

Cheers
Neil


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## sawdustalley (9 Jan 2004)

CYC":3nzg8k52 said:


> As long as he doesn't come up with a dado blade next!!!




...I saw one hanging on the wall - no joke :shock:


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## Anonymous (10 Jan 2004)

I watched the first 3 shows of GBW on Wed.THANK GOODNESS that,at last ,we have a BRITISH woodwork show of quality.I am so tired of the rubbish we have been fed so far with jokey presenters,relentless brain-numbing music,and camera-work that would make you scream with frustration.It may have shades of Norm in it's style which is both entertaining and instructional, but for me it scores over Norm so far in the choices of projects that are better suited to our less spacious British homes, with styles more suited to us too---a pleasant relief from Shaker furniture!
I found it very entertaining, well presented with clear instruction, intelligently shot and edited,and look forward to further shows,I sincerely hope GBW is here to stay.


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## Newbie_Neil (10 Jan 2004)

Hi all

For anybody, like me, who missed the first three shows they are being repeated on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday at 14.00 - 14-30.

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (10 Jan 2004)

Hi Neil

In addition it appears they are also showing a couple of previous shows on wednesday night as the schedules read that the show is on from 22.00-23.30 hrs

Cheers

Billzee


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## Newbie_Neil (10 Jan 2004)

Hi Bill



bilzee":5lws8rws said:


> In addition it appears they are also showing a couple of previous shows on wednesday night as the schedules read that the show is on from 22.00-23.30 hrs



They are showing three NEW half hour shows each week on a Wednesday night for five weeks, in total.

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (10 Jan 2004)

Cheers for that neil.

I haven't seen the show yet so I'll catch the afternoon repeats


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## Dewy (11 Jan 2004)

*In an email complaining about NYW not being shown as often H&L said * 
* "Unfortunately, we have no plans for a new series of 'New Yankee Workshop'. 
Our schedules are designed based on viewer feedback, and the popularity of programmes."  *

*For all those who miss Norm' peals of wisdom I will remind you here.*

*Before you use any power tools lets take a moment to talk about shop safety. 
Be sure to read, understand & follow all the safety rules that come with your power tools. 
Knowing how to use your power tools properly will greatly reduce the risk of personal injury.
And remember this, there is no more important safety rule than to wear these, safety glasses.
8) *


*I didn't see all 3 episodes of The Great British Workshop but see they are scheduled for 2pm each day starting tomorrow 12th Jan. This means a whole hour of woodwork on H&L as it's followed by NYW at 2.30* :lol:


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## CYC (12 Jan 2004)

Dewy, where can you give them feedback on which program you like most? I'll tell them how much I am sick of their fishing programs, and how I don't watch as much the channel since the programs showing these days are boring.
But then there is the British Woodshop now


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## Dewy (12 Jan 2004)

*CYC. I sent an email to H&L at the address given on their website. 
The address is [email protected]
There is a 'contact us' place on the website which gives both email & phone No.
H&L Quote. "Our schedules are designed based on viewer feedback, and the popularity of programmes. We're sorry you've been disappointed on this occasion. We will forward your comments to our scheduling team for their consideration." 

I then pointed out that NYW had been shown at prime time (8pm) for so long & also as the Workshop Wednesday feature so why had it been delegated to one episode at lunchtime.*


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## Anonymous (12 Jan 2004)

Hi Dewy

Good to see you on here mate. Do you think Wolf, ss, etc would be interested???

Coggy


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## Dewy (12 Jan 2004)

*Hi coggy, Wolf may but SS is too busy trying to find how to lift that laminate floor to install his beloved leccy under without damaging the laminate. lol*


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## Anonymous (12 Jan 2004)

LOL

Yes it sounds a right job there for him. It made me think, i laid 55 square m of it about 6 months ago in a large loft area and it was the glue system. I hope they don't need to get under it


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## Signal (14 Jan 2004)

/RANT
Ohh how I laughed tonight when out came Daves stacked dado head.

"Now a lot of fellow wood workers are suprised that I use a SDH a they thought them illegal"

"Well i've checked with the authorities that be and their not as long as you use them safely"

"As long as you have a table saw which has a long enough arbor you can use them but you must go over 15mm" 

as he does up the arbour nut on his nice shiny unisaw...

Show me a LEGAL CE Compliant saw with a long enough arbour that you can buy in the UK.

As Scrit pointed out in the past yes this is true to an extent but....
the term of interest is "safely". 

Where were your safety measures Mr Dave? :roll: 

That said the next project he did use the router for all the housings, and he showed how to set up for them which is more than I have seen on any other pogram.

But he spoils it all by doing a rebate cut on the crown moulding which can only be done with the riving knife and guard removed....

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not anti SDH, we have one and we use it but only on our Tyzac which is older than me, by a good few years, and predates CE requirements on arbour lengths. 

groaaannnnn
/RANT

Signal


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## CYC (15 Jan 2004)

Well this was the next logical step, the dado blade on the wall (well spotted james :wink: ) had to make it to the table.
OK, so he says that it's lawful to use the dado blade on a table saw if the arbor is long enough. In this case is it okay to import a table saw with a long arbor?


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## Noel (15 Jan 2004)

As far as I'm aware it is ok to import a TS with a longer arbour providing it is not used in a commercial workshop, i.e, home use, as it will not be CE compliant. 

Rgds

Noel


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Noely,

yup, it may be ok to import one but consider the shipping costs on a piece of cast iron and import duty.

Also if you have any form of health insurance and you lop a finger off Im sure theyll use non ce compliance as a way to wiggle out of cover

Signal


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## CYC (15 Jan 2004)

Surely then Dave Free uses is tablesaw for business with the show on air.

Good point Signal, snakes they are those insurances!! :evil:


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## Noel (15 Jan 2004)

It amazes me how we European WWers seem to be transfixed by stacked dado heads....however, I'm not sure on the likely consequences of an insurance claim on a non CE compliant piece of equipment. How many of us would claim, or have the facility to claim, on a household accident? No doubt claims can be made due to loss of income and other consequences arising from injury but I suspect one cannot claim for the injury itself unless the machine / appliance itself can be proven to be at fault. It is fortunate that we do not have the litigious culture so evident in the States where every ambulance chasing lawyer is out to make a fast buck.
Most of us have inflicted some injury to ourselves pottering about or working on our houses and the only thing we do is get treated at A & E and look for some sympathy for a few days. Obviously a different set of circumstances apply when accidents or otherwise happen in a working environment.
Not sure about the point about dado heads on television. It's posible that David Free's workshop is his own (I suspect it is) and only used for hobby purposes. The fact that it forms the basis of a television series may not ,and that's a big may, have any bearing on the insurance issue. But perhaps, more to the point, his assertion that guards etc are removed for photograhic purposes, provides a "get out" on the matter. No doubt D & L and Fastlane Productions are up to speed on such matters. Perhaps the odd glimpse of the Delta Unisaw being used with a DIY guard supports this.
Lastly, did notice that David Free is also producer of the show.

Rgds

Noel


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## Noel (15 Jan 2004)

Perhaps Andy K and Scrit can add a professional view to the issue.

Rgds

Noel


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Noely,

If you have medical insurance and lop a finger off you will be making a claim. Insurance companies being insurance companies they will go all they can to advoid paying out.

Signal


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## Noel (15 Jan 2004)

Hi Signal,

Medical insurance wouldn't be too common round my part of the world, unless employer supported, but point taken.

Rgds

Noel


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## Philly (15 Jan 2004)

Guys,
Oh dear, when I saw the dado come out last night I nearly died-Scrit is going to lose it biggo!!!
Well, you can't do a "New Yankee" copy without a "New Yankee" dado...
love and cringes,
Philly


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

I didn't see the one with the dado head, but i've watched some of the others. 
He expains his techniques pretty well I think, getting information across well, but the show is designed 'to educate the uneducated' and I don't mean this in a derogitory sense, simply that the show is designed as both entertainment but also to give information and ideas to the home woodworker, which in theory encompasses a lot of people without formal wood machinery training. 
I don't have a problem with a disclaimer saying that guards are removed for photographic purposes, but in the majority of events these can be shown with the machine stationary to show what is happening before putting the guards on to make the cut, or even halfway through the operation with the machine stationary. Safety should be paramount on a show designed for the UK market. America has different rules so we have to live with it.
It strikes me that the H&L channel want the presenters to put entertainment over good advice, which I suppose is what the show is about, but it can be an accident waiting to happen, especially as they all have kit that is designed for professional use, not a sub £200 table saw and whatever else the end user can afford. 
I would much prefer to see a truly British show, based on current legislation where host makes things 'properly' using the correct machine for the correct job, and maybe with a lower budget on the tool side of things, so more 'decent entry level' workshop machinery, maybe around the £3-700 mark depending on the machine. 
All the current crop can put up as many disclaimers as they like, but there is always a situation where the cut they are making is impossible to do with the guard in position, and this is implying that it's OK to do.
What you do in your own home is entirely up to you, but a programme that is designed to educate amateur (again, not derogitory) woodworkers should be educating them in the correct, safe manner. 
Cutting corners once you are qualified is an option taken at your own risk. An employer can be taken to court for trying to make you use machinery unguraded, or outside of its designed scope.
That is why the HSE post information relating to accidents in the woodworking industry, and also try to keep a tight rein on the uses of machinery. It is unusual to hear of an accident where all guarding was in place and pushsticks were used.
That said, it still amazes me that the good old USA can allow someone to sue a fast food chain for putting hot coffee in a cup and failing to let the drinker know, yet hasn't had lawsuit after lawsuit over limb and digit amputations from poor safety advice.
I suppose the ideal thing to do would be start a company up along the lines of 'Had an accident after watching the Great British/New Yankee Workshop? Cut your fingers off? You may be entitled to compensation.'
Get someone to dial this number xxxxxxxxxxx and make a claim. (You won't be able to do it yourself, your digits will be in a bag of frozen peas, awaiting micro surgery!)

Andy


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Andy, 

I don't have a problem with the disclaimer either its just they never have the gaurds in place and they also carry out procedures which can only be done with out the gaurd like cutting rebates and nibling tennons.

Signal


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

Hi Signal,

Exactly so! 
It is this type of operation that gives a complete novice the idea that this is the correct way to do things. Even if this was a 'legal' method, try it on a saw that costs over £1000, is cast iron and induction motored and has an £80 sawblade in it, and then try it on a sub-£150 tin boxed, ribbed aluminium tabled, brush motored saw that shakes your fillings out of your teeth when you use it and you may consider a different method anyway.
Perhaps they ought to base the programmes around one of these!

Andy


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Andy, 

if they did base it on a smaller saw you can bet it would never
see the light of day though

Signal


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

Hi Andy, Signal et al

We obviously have been havin the same thoughts. This is an email I have just sent to them. I'll post the reply when I get it.

'Firstly, I would like to thank Discovery Home and Leisure for showing woodworking on the television. Please be assured that I am trying to be constructive. GBW and David Free is a vast improvement over ‘BOYZ’ and John’s Workshop.

I have found the Great British Wood Shop very interesting, particularly as most of the equipment, with the exception of the Delta Unisaw, is available in this country and some of it I have myself.

I have assumed that you are aiming the show at amateur woodworkers in the UK. Now, as far as I am aware, the average woodworker in this country works out of a single garage or a similar sized space. If you are serious about aiming the show at amateur woodworkers in the UK, working out of a single garage, why bother importing a saw for the show that will not fit into the average woodworker’s available space and that very few people could even afford (to import)?

Due to the electric braking, you cannot buy a CE marked table saw in the EU today with an arbor long enough to take a stacked dado head cutter such as the one used in the show last night. All that happens is the people new to woodworking will ask the question why can’t I have a dado cutter in my saw. Web sites continually get clogged up with the question.

Why doesn’t David Free only use equipment that is freely available within the UK/EU and also only make cuts that can be achieved WITH the safety guards in place? If you must show a cut with the guards off, why don’t you just switch the power off the machine?

I belong to a group of UK woodworkers on the Internet and one of the threads currently running is trying to find out which table saw people are using. The current leader is the Scheppach and I believe it is the model 2500.

Surely, the show would instantly become much more interesting to woodworkers in the UK if a sub one thousand pound saw was used and dadoes were cut using the router and a jig.

I realise that a separate jointer and thicknesser is used for speed but, due to space constraints, the combined planer/thicknesser is the machine of choice for most UK woodworkers. 

I look forward to receiving your response.'

Cheers
Neil


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## Newbie_Neil (15 Jan 2004)

Hi

I forgot to sign in. :roll:  

Cheers
Neil


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## CYC (15 Jan 2004)

Can't wait for their response too :lol:


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

Hi Neil,

chances are you will get a reply, but whether it answers your queries is another story.
I sent them an email a couple of years back when 'John's workshop' was first aired, and he had his table saw set up for vertical tenon cutting if I remember correctly, with the usual 'guards removed etc etc...' I pointed out that you can't make that cut with the crown guard in position, so it is misleading the viewer. I also offered to advise them on safety for general cutting shots on subsequent shows if they wanted me to.
I did get a reply saying that my comments had been noted and someone would be back in touch shortly.
OK, what happened next?
Correct! Nothing.
I haven't heard anything at all, either on my initial query, or my offer to look at general safety shots. 
As I said earlier, entertainment seems to be higher rated than safety procedures.
You have an excellent point about the home workshop as well. While we would all like a workshop the size of a barn to work in, we invariably have to make do with whatever we can. Again, perhaps they could try a show under these constraints instead of the clinical, perfect conditions they normally show!


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

Hi Andy

I believe that they are missing a real opportunity for a winning show.

I realise they need more space to allow for cameras etc. but they could limit the area housing the actual machines to something approaching the size of a single garage.

We shall see.

Cheers
Neil


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

At the risk of sounding like a complete git lets drop the stacked dado head cutter BS, ok safety safety safety . We all must know by now you can acheive the same effect with 1 or even 2 straight edge guides and a router . We do not need to keep covering the same groud, lets all move on . I am sure all the ranting n ravin is not going to make a blind bit of difference .


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Aonbium,

it aint just about stacked dados, its about getting some one to make a decent program for the british market using availble equipment which complies to our safety rules.

If your happy just watching Norm and duplicates then fine, however I think the broadcasters have a responsibility to produce a program which does reflect the above issues.

Yes you know how to create a housing with a router and straight edge, as do I and 99% of the people on this forum, But how many people gettig into woodworking through the likes of H+L wouldnt.

Hope this doesnt sound ranty, it aint meant to be



Signal


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## Alf (15 Jan 2004)

AP,

I know what you mean; it's as boring as hell. But I'd sooner read, or skip, such a thread as this every week of the year, if it meant just _one_ woodworking newcomer might be safer in their workshop. _I_ know about dado heads, _you_ know about dado heads; but Joe Bloggs fired up by Norm and his Unisaw (or Dave and his, now) doesn't have a clue. Think of Joe, eh? :wink:

Now when is someone going to fill the void and come up with the definitive "dado heads in the UK" web page so we can all just point newbies to that?  You'd get a massive number of page hits...

Cheers, Alf


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## CYC (15 Jan 2004)

Take me for example. Watching The New yankee Workshop gave me the push to woodwork seriously. I didn't have a table saw then and started looking for the one I should get.
So there I was in the tool shop, looking at a nice table and turned to the sales man asking: "Can I get a dado head for it?". Needless to say this was the day I discovered arbors in the EU are too small for it because of regulations.
I know now how to do with a router what Norm does with his dado blade, but I didn't learn that from his show.

However, even if Dave Free used a dado blade in one episode, he still is showing how to make good use of the router and jigs. This is an enornous leap in quality of woodworking shows made in UK :wink:

And of course I have learned a lot reading everyone's comment on this forum, this is great to be part of it.


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## Newbie_Neil (15 Jan 2004)

Hi AP

I'm definitely of the same mind as Signal.

I believe that H & L are missing a trick because they are so close to having a really successful UK woodworking show on their hands.

Woodworking in the UK is vastly different from the US. The point I was trying to make is that it would be really helpful if only tools that were available in the EU were used. The other point I made was one of space in the workshop. Why doesn't he use a sub 1,000 tablesaw? Why doesn't he use a combined planer thicknesser available for less than 800? Why doesn't he only make cuts when all guards are in place?

Wouldn't that make it much more meaningful?

Cheers
Neil


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## Adam (15 Jan 2004)

I reckon I could knock up a "why can't we use a Dado cutter" page in about an hour given the correct information and a few links.

Perhaps James_SDA could find somewhere to upload it to?

Adam


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Adam, 

I could host it and put it together, 

its just getting all the facts down and making sure their
right, cos you get a single dot wrong and you will be hounded
to death over it.

Signal


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## Adam (15 Jan 2004)

If you can and look up the CE directive it specifically states:

"At trade fairs, exhibitions, demonstrations, etc., Member States shall not prevent the showing of machinery or safety components which do not conform to the provisions of this Directive,....."

I think that's pretty clear. Whether they have a moral obligation to not use such devices is less clear.

A_L

just noticed - it says this as the next sentence! Hmmm

"provided that a visible sign clearly indicates that such machinery or safety components do not conform and that they are not for sale until they have been brought into conformity by the manufacturer or his authorised representative established in the Community. "


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## Alf (15 Jan 2004)

Heh heh; you've put your finger on why I haven't done it, Sig. :lol: 

If either or youse guys would do it that'd be great. A real public service to my mind.  

Cheers, Alf


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## gidon (15 Jan 2004)

Alf":203aof47 said:


> Now when is someone going to fill the void and come up with the definitive "dado heads in the UK" web page so we can all just point newbies to that?



Aha - well here it is from David Free's perspective:

http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=170

And some details of the bandsaw used Alf which you may be interested to see. It seems the saw is an Australian import. Oh and some nice video clips for those without Sky .

And I know I've come in a bit late on this post - been away - but I don't want to see him tripping over himself in a small workshop like mine. Or using cheap tools. These shows should show something to enthuse you - not make you remember ?) just how tricky this woodworking really is!

I think although not perfect by any means - this show and CEW aren't too bad at all. Remember the rubbish they had on before - Boyz in the wood, John's workshop etc ...

Cheers

Gidon


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Alf,

Id be more than will to do it if some one helped with the words.

Knowing my luck Id end up being stalked by some dado head fanatic. :lol: 

Signal


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## Alf (15 Jan 2004)

Gidon,

Well yes... Erm, it's not exactly scintillating reading though, is it? Hands up who read it _all_, right through to the end? :lol: He's very pro-dado head isn't he? 

Anyway, I don't like him. He's got a bigger bandsaw than I have.  

Sig,

Yeah, it was the words that gave me the trouble too...  

Cheers, Alf

P.S. It's just dawned on me it's called the Great British *Wood*shop! Another show of hands please; who calls their sawdust production facility their "woodshop"? Okay. Now would any passing 'Murrican's lower their hands. Thank you. That's what I thought. Somebody send him a checked shirt and a beard would you? :lol:


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## Signal (15 Jan 2004)

Alf,

zacly, youve seen my typing in IM  

Signal


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## gidon (15 Jan 2004)

Alf - yep I drifted off after paragraph two! But at least he's made an effort to explain his reasoning I guess. Surprised Jet didn't force him to use their new table saw - I had assumed that's what he was using.
He's certainly pushing that bandsaw to its limits - NOT!

Cheers

Gidon


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## Adam (15 Jan 2004)

I don't think we need do anything other than point noobs at that page. It clearly tells them they could have a Dado, if only they can find one (Ho ho ho) 'cos they'll probably need to rustle up a 3-phase connection if its an old ex-industrial machine.

A


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

I have always thought ( and said) that dear ole norm's show was/is a bit 'pie in the sky' for most of us garage/workshop guys. It may help to originally fire some newbies only to frustrate when real life kicks in. 

This latest offering from David Free is a step in the right direction but is still out of sight for most of us regarding table saw/ dust extraction/and workshop room.

Get real DHL


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## Adam (15 Jan 2004)

They seem to have done their research AND decided dado blades are legal 

Q) So why shouldn't they use them we ask?

A) 'cos we haven't got them

This would be true if the show was aimed at the British only, but it is clearly written with the American market in mind.

For Example:

Amercians think all English people live in mansions - and their is no reason to film "on location". For us, - an industrial location whould have been sufficient. All this prancing around in National Trust properties is not for out benefit.

They are using Jet, not Scheppach for example, which noone across the pond is interested in.

All this scurrying off to Polesden Lacey and other such "country" houses. A dead cert its either on the TV's of our cousins across the water already, or it will be shortly.

At which point it makes more sense to use dado heads. The Americans expect them to be used, as do the Australians.

Selling it abroad might be the only way to make it profitiable enough to be viable -for all we know, although it's British, it might make it's money in the States from being a "novelty" show. This makes it more obvious why Jet are sponsers as they have a foot in both markets.

Anyone agree?

Adam


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

from adam


> Anyone agree?



Sounds reasonable


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

Ok i think ive got the point but TV is not about realism its just to give u ideas on projects .Not everyone has space for half their tools as hobbists we work within our means .Otherwise in top gear they would test drive a ford fiesta every week cuz not many people drive or can afford a 200 grand car n model progs would show you how to make an airfix plane ,fishing progs would be down the canal. I mean how borin would it be if you turned on HL to see a bloke in a broom cupboard with a hand saw n rusty chisel show you how to make a door stop  . Sorry if this or anyother posts offends anyone, but come on you look at half the wood shows they own about a grands worth of clamps let alone thier other kit it's not about realism its ENTERTAINMENT. If someone watched norm n goes off n turns his shed into a workshop fine. Safety is paramount i am not disputing it but lets not get anal about everything you see . BTW if you sat down and counted evey HS rule that got broken in these progs you would have a very long list :twisted:


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## sawdustalley (15 Jan 2004)

I agree, we need this page, and we need an FAQ at the top of the forums, I have had enough of dado threads.

Adam, if you are willing to write it, i'll be able to upload it.

Edit:
Also, thought i'd let you know that hopefully I will get a basic interview with david - got a few interesting questions lined up .

BTW - They are watching this thread, so don't be too mean (cough: Shame about the dado blade) :wink:


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## Alf (15 Jan 2004)

Adam,
I think you've got it, and I feel a real "slow head" for not spotting it myself (notice how I'm slipping into 'Murricanisms there so we'll all feel at home..? :wink: Actually I've been feeling a bit of a rant coming on about 'Murricanisms creeping into the British woodworking. What with chip breakers instead of cap irons, and dados instead of housings/trenches I'm starting to feel like a third world country with a coca-cola bottling plant. Yes there are benefits, but what the heck is going to be left of our own cultural heritage?! :? But that's for another time [sighs of relief all round]  )

Cheers, Alf


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## Midnight (15 Jan 2004)

> Even if this was a 'legal' method, try it on a saw that costs over £1000, is cast iron and induction motored and has an £80 sawblade in it, and then try it on a sub-£150 tin boxed, ribbed aluminium tabled, brush motored saw that shakes your fillings out of your teeth when you use it and you may consider a different method anyway.
> Perhaps they ought to base the programmes around one of these!



Well said Sir.... well said.....


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## Anonymous (15 Jan 2004)

from AP


> .... but TV is not about realism....




Yeah, but it could be, and maybe @ times it should be. 

................and if anyone had the bottle and the gift to put on something we could identify with and it still inspire us it would be a real winner.

......after all , don't we have enough 'pie in the sky' shows already. 




[/quote]


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## Anonymous (16 Jan 2004)

But i am inspired have you noticed the table extensions on his appear to be laminated timber not sum £300 a side shiny bit of ally or how simple but effective fence system on his router table are . If we all concentrate on the negatives we miss the positives thats all i am tryin to say . One day the people in TV land may get it right but i anit gonna hold my breath and i am not gonna bang on about how bad something is . One thing these shows cannot teach is common sense and anyone that goes into a toolshop and says i want one of them please without researching it first must be mad . Thats why we have strict gun laws here and the murricans dont :lol:


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## Midnight (16 Jan 2004)

> have you noticed the table extensions on his appear to be laminated timber not sum £300 a side shiny bit of ally



forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think that't pretty standare with the Beismeir fence; it's virtually identical to Norm's. Either way, it's damn impressive. I can only dream about dropping a whole sheet of ply widthwise onto my saw. Still..... one day....
His chop saw station is impressive...


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## kityuser (16 Jan 2004)

ref:

link provided in previous post to GREAT BRITISH WS website:
"The first manufacturer to release a saw table that can take the wider blade will certainly be popular. Let’s keep our fingers crossed."


lets keep our fingers crossed!!!!!!!! if you still have them!! 

***** more thought about post *****

I could be one of your typical examples........

started watching norm YEARS ago (with the old man), was amazed at how easy all this wood working LARK seemed.
Got proper enthusiastic and went out and layed out cash for some gear:
1)CLARKE table saw (i know!!!! don`t ask....)
2)dado blade set
3)B&Q router (actually a very good buy for the cash)
4)lots of clamps
5) some very wet pine

got home, and the reality of it all started to really kick in.......
I managed to fit the dado blade to the CLARKE table saw (VERY VERY scary, only ever happened once........ never again! :shock: , if you think they vibrate with the standard blade, you ain`t seen nothing yet!)

got really pineappled off, felt kind-of cheated!

anyhow , things are better now, and a huge part of that is down to THIS website (and the people who frequent it!)
I`m very safety concious, take my time over all my machinary operating, use ALL the guards (even go as far as wearing ear-defenders and a face shield!) and have bought quality equipment (table saw is yet to come, CLARKE is now only used to re-saw second hand timber that I get, I`m seriously thinking about a kity 419 set-up)

jesus, the other day I bought a hand-tool :shock:


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## Guest (16 Jan 2004)

Seems to me there is a lot of green-eyed monsters infecting this thread. 
So, the guy has a good saw and dust extraction, don't we all wish we had his facilities. As it happens, my saw, an old one I have modified with a cast iron table and induction motor, will take a dado and, yes I have got one and I have used it, very carefully I might add. I think more accidents are caused by complacency than any faulty machine. Plus I did learn that the maximum width of a dado should not exceed 15mm, I would not have been aware of that if Mr free had not used a dado blade. I have found this site very informative and helpful, as I have watching Norm and now David Free.


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## Noel (16 Jan 2004)

Good on yer, Jarmar, I reckon GBW is for learning, inspiration and entertainment. Best UK based WW show so far.
With regard to the TS extension tables: right hand extension comes standard with the saw, simply birch ply with laminate top and box section steel legs which rest on the floor or mobile base. Laminate is usually in Delta grey to match the saw cabinet. Table is secured to the front and rear rails. The outfeed table is just a DIY affair, generally contiboard etc with the mitre gauge slots routered in. This set up makes a huge difference when cutting sheet goods from a safety and practical point of view.

Rgds

Noel


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## Dewy (16 Jan 2004)

And there was me thinking the extension tables were copies from Norms table saw station as the director of the show worked at WGBH in America for 18 years & worked on both TOH & NYW.


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