# BALLS



## wizer (27 Feb 2010)

Hi Guys

I'd like to turn some large balls. Do any of you know of a jig to do the job? I'd like to turn quite a few so I'm not keen on doing them by hand.

Any ideas?


----------



## bobham (27 Feb 2010)

How large is large? David Springett uses a pivoting jig in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9scH5rMySig

I would think it could be modified to suit.

Good Luck!
Bob


----------



## wizer (28 Feb 2010)

cheers Bob. The sizes I was thinking would be 6" minimum, up to 12". I have been doing some research. It appears no one makes a jig like this commercially. Which I find odd.

I may make the 'simple' version David referred to in that video. Bob Chapman has plans on his website.

http://www.bobchapman.co.uk/_6__ball_jig.pdf


----------



## TobyB (28 Feb 2010)

Why so large, out of interest? I have used the Wivamac one which does up to 250 mm - it seems large enough to make balls for skittles games I've made, and would easily do most staircase finials, etc. What are you planning that'll need multiple 12" balls? (Pictures)


----------



## Mike Wingate (28 Feb 2010)

I copied a Craft Supplies jig that fitted and pivoted in the toolpost. The cosen lathe tool was bolted into the device, this was adjusted to give the diameter of the ball. It worked but I bought a Lathe copier and make balls from an MDF template.


----------



## wizer (28 Feb 2010)

Thanks Chaps. 

Toby, no practical reason\use. Purely ornamental\artistic. 

Mike, I've just had a look at the jig that Craft Supplies sell. I'm a bit confused to how it works? Surely the tool post moves in and out, as well as rotates when unlocked? Seems expensive for half a tool. I was looking at Bob Chapman's instructions where he used a top slide from a metal lathe. Might be the way to go.

e]


----------



## wizer (28 Feb 2010)

This one looks simple-ish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHYp353gaFA

Although my metalworking skills are Zero. I wonder if I could make it out of ply and wood? I guess the main problem with working on large balls will be the distance away from the bed bars, hence causing chatter\vibration.


----------



## laird (28 Feb 2010)

I presume you've seen this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WOODTURNING-LATHE ... 439d975b9e 
It only goes to 4", but I get the impression the seller makes them, so he might be able to extend it to 6".


----------



## dannykaye (28 Feb 2010)

one of these might give you ideas


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WOODTURNING-L...UK_Crafts_Other_Crafts_EH?hash=item439d975b9e

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MODEL-ENGINEE...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item439d91471b

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LATHE-BALL-TU...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM?hash=item1c1052eb5c

I have made the first style and the important thing is to get it vertically centered at the size you want. It should be easy to make something similar that fits in the toolpost. the second one relies in a very rigid mount which might be harder, possibly plywood with steel angle reinfrcing?


----------



## frugal (28 Feb 2010)

There is a detailed section on making a ball turning jig in Woodturning Wizardry by David Springett. He uses his jig for cutting spheres at about 60mm diameter, but I see no reason why the design can not be scaled up.


----------



## Paul.J (28 Feb 2010)

Tom.
There is an article in issue No177 of Woodturning mag on making largeish balls,10"dia, for the garden,if you have it :?:


----------



## wizer (28 Feb 2010)

Thanks guys. I will look at all the links provided, especially laird's. Time is short atm so I'd be happy to pay a reasonable amount for an off the shelf solution.

Paul, I don't have that issue. Would you put it aside for me. If I don't get anywhere before the bash, I can have a little look when I get there.

Cheers.


----------



## wizer (28 Feb 2010)

So I spoke to the guy on eBay. He does make them but won't go bigger than 5" due to "cutting forces".

I found another example on Laymar Crafts. His one does 7" and he suggests going higher.

I might give making one a go and if it doesn't work out then I'll go with the eBay guy.


----------



## laird (28 Feb 2010)

Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## TobyB (1 Mar 2010)

I'd be surprised if a plywood etc solution would be strong enough - the one I've used was pretty solidly engineered (eg cutter mounted on a 30 mm diameter bit of steel) for making up to 250 mm diameter balls ... 
http://www.willyvanhoutte.be/en/catalog/show_cat/447
It worked well, but I imagine you'll have a lot of distorting forces when going bigger than that, just like working a long way off the toolrest when deep hollowing, etc.


----------



## wizer (1 Mar 2010)

Thanks Toby. I wonder if I could have the main parts of that jig made for me.







It looks relatively simple for someone with metalworking facilities.


----------



## TheTiddles (1 Mar 2010)

Mike Wingate":20u7qjzf said:


> I copied a Craft Supplies jig that fitted and pivoted in the toolpost. The cosen lathe tool was bolted into the device, this was adjusted to give the diameter of the ball. It worked but I bought a Lathe copier and make balls from an MDF template.



Hi Mike

What copier do you have and where did you get it from? There seems to be a cronic shortage of suppliers of them in Europe

Aidan


----------



## jurriaan (1 Mar 2010)

Ball turning jigs are well known in the German woodturning world, and since I live in between, let me give you a link for a Kugeldrehvorrichtung:

http://www.hobbyholz.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=357&products_id=1032

works with a center height of 12" (as I have myself, with this tool).






The tool, with a custom-made cutter, in action on my lathe:




[/img]

The product description page mentions a 440 mm ball could be turned when you have 300 mm center height. Hardcore German woodturners say that youngsters using such a tool are not real woodturners, by the way :wink: - real woodturners know how to turn a ball by hand.


----------



## TobyB (1 Mar 2010)

That's a serious bit of engineering isn't it! Hardcore UK turners would say you should turn balls by hand too ... and I've read how to do it, tried it, and not been very good at it. I used a jig and nieces and friends children have been very happy with the skittle sets I made them (parents seemed pleased too!) - wondering about a croquet set with turned mallets and balls ... maybe this summer?

So - whilst I know, with practice, I should be able to learn to turn a ball - I'm pleased with using a jig ...


----------



## wizer (1 Mar 2010)

Wow Jurriaan, That's an impressive bit of kit. 300 Euros before shipping. So it's going to end up £300+ after shipping. I'd like to investigate having it made for me in the UK. Even if I can save £100 it'd be worth it. But hopefully it can be made for much less. The raw materials shouldn't cost too much. It's just the tooling which is specialist.

Can the owners of these jigs let me know what is so specialist about those tips. Would a standard scraper not suffice?


----------



## TobyB (1 Mar 2010)

I looked at a couple that had a cup shaped blade a bit like a ring cutter (e.g. http://www.willyvanhoutte.be/en/catalog/show_cat/446) and at other designs which used simple scraper tool like some hollowing systems (e.g. http://www.laymar-crafts.co.uk/tip48.htm) - but the one I have has a bowl gouge-like cutter mounted at about 45 degrees. It seemed to produce a better surface. I made some balls out of (American?) tulipwood and it still generated a lot of tearout but those sanded OK. Some beech balls worked out better, and I made a nicely smooth walnut ball that needed very little sanding. Maybe well set up in the right hands a simple scraper-cutter will work ... Holtzapffel illustrates ivory billiard balls being made that way ... but I'd try to make a ball by hand using gouges rather than a scraper, and all of the instructions on making them talk of such tools as well ... so to me it makes sense for a jig to try to work like that too.

Maybe an expert who know what they are talking about will join this thread?


----------



## wizer (1 Mar 2010)

There's the rub Toby. I think, this being not 'proper' turning, it's going to be looked upon with some disdain from accomplished turners. My intention is to produce a volume of balls between 4-12". Those sizes are not set in stone, 10" will probably be ok.

I think the key is making the tool post as 'versatile' as possible. If/when I have one made, I'll try to make it so I can buy 'off the shelf' tooling. To me, that's the hardest part.


----------



## Bodrighy (1 Mar 2010)

The right way to turn balls is the way that suits you best. There is no right and wrong way in turning, just a safe and unsafe way. If you need that many and you have difficulty turning them by hand (as do many 'accomplished' turners I suspect) then use a jig. 

Pete


----------



## TheTiddles (1 Mar 2010)

I'm intending to make a ball turning attachement soon, though it's for up to about 2" diameter which is not really in Whizzers realm and intended to make handle ends etc... not balls in the entirety. The thing that gets me, is how do you hold the ball to do the other end of it given that you have to keep the centre absolutely dead on?

Aidan


----------



## wizer (1 Mar 2010)

With these jigs you hold from both ends. I'm not entirely sure how you take off the tenons, but I assume a pair of cup chucks to hold them whilst you finish it off. The only problem is you would need to turn multiple sized cup chucks if the balls were of differing sizes. For my purpose, I don't need them to be perfectly spherical. Near will do.


----------



## BMac (1 Mar 2010)

If 'near enough' will do a very cheap method that I use is a cardboard template, a bowl gouge and 80 grit sandpaper. You'd be surprised at how good a job you'd do. As for the tenons, I just slice them off and finish sanding them off on a pad on the lathe.

Brendan


----------



## wizer (1 Mar 2010)

Yes I have thought about that. But I do want them to be consistent and I just haven't got the time (or physical ability) to practise, practise, practise. I have it in mind for these balls to be a commercial project and the idea is to be able to batch them out relatively quickly with consistency. Much like some of the pro's use the bowl savers. What I mean buy 'not perfect', is near perfect but not to engineering standards. i.e taking off the tenons will probably alter the concentricity (sp\right word?), but if they look like balls with no obvious flats or lumps, I'll be happy.


----------



## BMac (1 Mar 2010)

Got you now, that makes good sense.

Brendan


----------



## TobyB (2 Mar 2010)

With the jig, I have a couple of cup chucks ... the drive one just the waste left after I'd parted something off so it already had a tenon to fit the jaws on a chuck. I've found it drives fairly smoothly, but slipping leading to burns was a problem - by lining it with some fairly fine abranet glued in this hasn't been a problem. I made a small cup for the tailstock that fits into the revolving centre. 

Once you've got most of the ball, I used these cups having rotated it to take the tenons off, to get a good round thing. I've then loosened it for sanding so it's only lightly held, making it easy to turn without stopping the lathe so you can sand x, y and z axes evenly.


----------



## duncanh (2 Mar 2010)

One change you could make to the design - instead of the horizontal bar resting on a small rectangular plate like in the photo it could rest on a larger base that should support it along it's length and during it's whole arc. 
This plate could be metal or perhaps thick mdf and could perhaps have a leg supporting it that goes down to the floor.


----------



## wizer (2 Mar 2010)

Thanks Duncan. I'd considered that and I think it's a sensible option. The Laymar Crafts version is done like that. Makes a lot of sense, especially the leg.


----------

