# Four MDF Alcove Units - WIP



## BradNaylor

I'm now three days into a project building four alcove units to be fitted into an Edwardian house in north Manchester. I'm trying to get all the making done this week so I can spend next week painting them, and the following week fitting.

I started off with a cutting list for each unit produced on a spreadsheet. I only have to enter in the size of the alcove and the computer does all the work.







I started off with the doors. Componants cut and machined






Assembling







A couple of brads on the joints saves time and clamps






12 doors in 5 hours - not a bad start.








Day two began with cutting and laying out the componants for the face frames for the upper units






This is where the Domino really comes into its own.






Routing a small moulding round the inside of each frame






Clamped up to set overnight.







Day three is building the carcasess for the base units.

Here I'm screwing on an end panel






Everything is on adjustable legs for levelling






And guess what. The doors fit!






Today I'll be onto the upper cabinets, followed by a lot of sanding...

 

Cheers
Duncan


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## Doctor

Wow, true to your word Dan, it really is all MDF.
You are the alcove King.


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## BradNaylor

Doctor":e0d1ltwg said:


> Wow, true to your word Dan, it really is all MDF.



Funnily enough I've been having second thoughts on the thin rails of the face frames. I'm a bit worried about shelf sag.

I think I'll replace the rails with beech ones.




Doctor":e0d1ltwg said:


> You are the alcove King.



Hey, it pays the rent.


And some!

:wink:


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## PowerTool

Great photos,Dan - thanks for taking the time.
And what a simple (but brilliant) idea your racking is for stacking the doors while they set  

Andrew


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## Dave S

Interesting to see how you go about making this type of Unit, Dan. Thanks for sharing.

A question about the Domino - presumably, before the Domino, you would have used biscuit for the face frames. How do the two compare for this type of application?

cheers
Dave


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## adzeman

12 doors in 5 Hours! isn't bad its brilliant. Your methodology is an eye opener you really have put the manufacture into a fine art.

Do you have an apprentice/family member to pass these skills onto?

Keep up the good work


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## mailee

Ah so that is what the rack was for! brilliant! I did mean to ask you about that while I was there Dan but it slipped my mind with everything going on. I can see I have to try harder to get my times down to yours. Great post mate. Keep up the good work. :wink:


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## BradNaylor

mailee":foaefid4 said:


> Ah so that is what the rack was for!



Actually, the rack is for putting doors and panels on while the lacquer or paint dries after spraying. Very handy!

Meanwhile, I acomplished very little today.

I had to take Dan jr to school so didn't get in until 9.15. 

Then Karl came round bearing chips for dinner. :lol: 

As soon as he'd gone I had a phone call from potential client wanting me to quote for some work so I went out to Mobberley in the afternoon. I got an order and a deposit for two MDF alcove units!!

On the way back driving through Wilmslow I spotted an A board advertising hand-made furniture. So I stopped and popped in. It turned out to be this guy. http://www.garryolson.co.uk/

He was a lovely bloke and we spent the rest of the afternoon gassing about woodworking.

So it was a very nice but unproductive day. One of the luxuries of being self-employed.


:lol: 

I promise to do better tomorrow.

Dan


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## Doctor

I never get that, being self employed I always want to work harder, I really couldn't imagine just chatting to some one all afternoon when there is work to be done.
Don't get me wrong I like visitors to the workshop but after an hour I just want to get on.


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## joiner_sim

I like the method and line of production so far. I am jealous that being self-employed gains you a break when you feel like it though! :roll:


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## BradNaylor

Doctor":2t0s6dvf said:


> I never get that, being self employed I always want to work harder, I really couldn't imagine just chatting to some one all afternoon when there is work to be done.
> Don't get me wrong I like visitors to the workshop but after an hour I just want to get on.



That's why I'll never be able to buy a new Lotus!

Thing is though Doc, I work hard. I also like to take time out when the mood takes me though.

For me, self employment with no debt and low costs gives me the freedom to do as I please, within reason.

If I fancy the day off with Mrs T and Dan jr, I can take it. If I fancy spending the afternoon in the pub with Phil instead of working, I can.

It doesn't happen often - I'm usually grafting away - but I have got the choice.

And that to me is the luxury of self-employment!

Cheers
Duncan


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## Doug B

Dan Tovey":ji35zxxz said:


> Doctor":ji35zxxz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never get that, being self employed I always want to work harder, I really couldn't imagine just chatting to some one all afternoon when there is work to be done.
> Don't get me wrong I like visitors to the workshop but after an hour I just want to get on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I'll never be able to buy a new Lotus!
> 
> Thing is though Doc, I work hard. I also like to take time out when the mood takes me though.
> 
> For me, self employment with no debt and low costs gives me the freedom to do as I please, within reason.
> 
> If I fancy the day off with Mrs T and Dan jr, I can take it. If I fancy spending the afternoon in the pub with Phil instead of working, I can.
> 
> It doesn't happen often - I'm usually grafting away - but I have got the choice.
> 
> And that to me is the luxury of self-employment!
> 
> Cheers
> Duncan
Click to expand...


My thoughts entirely Dan.
The last week of taking the kids to school has reinforced my determination to put work second, & enjoy what i`ve got, while i can.


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## Doctor

Believe me Dan i'm not knocking you for it, I just can't work like that.
Even though its my business I still like to work a regular schedule, I take more holiday than a normal job though and enjoy a few more luxuries.


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## BradNaylor

I'm not going to waste any time this morning playing on the interweb. A quick cup of tea and in the workshop by 5.30.

Just what the Doctor ordered!

:wink: 

Dan


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## MickCheese

These posts are a bit like a TV serialisation, Lost or Heroes, I get to the last post and am disappointed.

I want to change to a pay channel to get the rest of the story before anyone else!  

This is really interesting and very informative.

I really like your work.

Thanks for sharing.

Mick


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## BradNaylor

Just for Mick then, here's a little taster of the next installment...



















Cheers
Duncan


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## woodbloke

Dan - where's all the shiny hand tools gone that were on that bench last week?..I thought you'd have at least got a few by now :wink: :lol: - Rob


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## BradNaylor

woodbloke":29yx0us2 said:


> Dan - where's all the shiny hand tools gone that were on that bench last week?..I thought you'd have at least got a few by now :wink: :lol: - Rob



I've been using plenty of hand tools on this job, Rob.

Festool hand tools!

:wink: 

Dan


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## mailee

Dan Tovey":1lvez3ny said:


> I'm not going to waste any time this morning playing on the interweb. A quick cup of tea and in the workshop by 5.30.
> 
> Just what the Doctor ordered!
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Dan



Good Lord Dan! you start work earlier than me! :shock: Mind you I was knackered the other day after starting at 6am and finishing at 8pm.


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## BradNaylor

I like to be in the shop by 6.30 - 7.00am

I can get more done in the first few hours before I wake up properly than I can in the rest of the day!

If Mrs T is on an early shift and I have to take Dan jr to school however, I don't get in until after 9.00. 

I have been known to go in for a couple of hours before she goes to work at 7.00 though.

Best time of the day!

Dan


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## dexter

Duncan,
I know you described the hinges you use in a previous thread but I`m struggling to find any. Can you help please?
Dex


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## BradNaylor

dexter":3hn4e115 said:


> Duncan,
> I know you described the hinges you use in a previous thread but I`m struggling to find any. Can you help please?
> Dex



Pop in, buy me a coffee, and I'll give you some!

:lol: 

Duncan


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## Doctor

Hi Dan,
Like you I find more and more customers wanting soft close doors, looking at your hinges (difficult from picture) it looks like you use a cheap mounting plate, why not invest a bit more and get a mounting plate which can be adjusted on a cam.
I use hettich and all 3 directions of movement are done by 3 different screws, I think it looks better and is less fiddly.
Have you seen the mew hafele all in one hinges with the soft close built in.


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## BradNaylor

You're right Bob.

These hinges are Hettich ones which my mate Phil ordered. Being a cheapskate he went for the crappy base plates and they're not even clip-ons!

Unfortunately he bought about 6 months worth...

Next time it'll be my turn to buy them and I will follow your advice.

Cheers
Duncan


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## Doctor

How do you go about deciding who buys what? Also, a customer walks in off the street and asks for a piece of furniture you are both capable of making, who quotes or do you both quote?


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## BradNaylor

Dave S":3iv4ng7y said:


> A question about the Domino - presumably, before the Domino, you would have used biscuit for the face frames. How do the two compare for this type of application?
> 
> cheers
> Dave



I did use to use biscuits for face frames but always found them unsatisfactory. The Domino is many times better.

I can't think of a single use for a biscuit joiner that the Domino can't do better.

Cheers
Duncan


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## jedmc571

Alright Dan, 

Just looking at the MDF in the pic, is that all MR MDF ? I know the green stuff is, but I've not seen ( what I'm assuming is ) brown faced MR MDF ?

I did notice some at yours during the "Bash" but never got round to asking.

Cheers

Jed


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## CNC Paul

Jed,

Sometimes the thicker 18mm and above) MR MDF has a brown face with a green core, it is still all MR. I think it is something to do with the manufacturing process for thicker boards.


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## BradNaylor

I asked my board supplier why some manufacturers make their MR MDF with a green core and biege faces.

Apparantly it is because people were having problems when veneering the all-green boards with woods such as maple or ash. A green cast showed through the veneer.

Not what you want when you've just put the finishing touches to a £10k board-room table!

Cheers
Dan


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## JonnyD

Dan Tovey":dqsx189e said:


> I asked my board supplier why some manufacturers make their MR MDF with a green core and biege faces.
> 
> Apparantly it is because people were having problems when veneering the all-green boards with woods such as maple or ash. A green cast showed through the veneer.
> 
> Not what you want when you've just put the finishing touches to a £10k board-room table!
> 
> Cheers
> Dan



That seems to make sense my supplier tends to have all green boards up to 15mm and brown faced ones 18mm and upwards which would be suitable for table tops.

Jon


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## BradNaylor

Doctor":3pphlft6 said:


> How do you go about deciding who buys what? Also, a customer walks in off the street and asks for a piece of furniture you are both capable of making, who quotes or do you both quote?



We just take it in turns to buy consumables and things like hinges and fittings. We keep a running tally of who has bought what and who has used what and then even things up in the pub every now and again! We both take the view that things work out fairly equal so long as we're both sensible.

As to work, it tends to be whoever answers the phone or talks to the visitor first. We're both booked up for months so as yet we haven't fought over anything! We've started to go halves on bigger jobs such as kitchens.

We're currently quoting on fitting out 46 hotel bedrooms over a 2 year period. 

That's 23 each!

:lol: 

Dan


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## Doctor

Dan Tovey":wp0ho272 said:


> We're currently quoting on fitting out 46 hotel bedrooms over a 2 year period.
> 
> That's 23 each!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Dan



Yes, even when I was at school 46 divided by 2 was 23 :lol: 
Sounds like a good job Dan, I can always make money on big jobs, it's the small ones I struggle on.
I used to work for a furniture company which solely did hotel furniture, I would recommend that you do have terms and conditions in place, it gets some serious abuse.
We used to put about 4 coats of lacquer on everything and a lot of high pressure laminates.


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## BradNaylor

Doctor":50yeacqv said:


> Sounds like a good job Dan, I can always make money on big jobs, it's the small ones I struggle on.
> I used to work for a furniture company which solely did hotel furniture, I would recommend that you do have terms and conditions in place, it gets some serious abuse.
> We used to put about 4 coats of lacquer on everything and a lot of high pressure laminates.



I take your point entirely about the T&C's, Bob. We've made these very clear in our quote and suspect that if we don't get the job it will be because of them.

So be it.

If we do get it it will mean that one month out of every three for the next two years is sold. That would be a comfortable feeling in the teeth of a recession!

Cheers
Duncan


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## Doug B

Do your T&C`s cover you for them backing out after the contract is signed Dan?
I`ve lost 4 kitchens recently, 1 of which was a labour only, i turned up on the appointed date to find the womens out of work brother had fitted it the week before :shock: . Apparently she didn`t think it "necessary" to let me know :roll: . There are words but i don`t want to be banned from the forum. :lol:


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## Karl

Doug B":dqt3kb7r said:


> I`ve lost 4 kitchens recently, 1 of which was a labour only, i turned up on the appointed date to find the womens out of work brother had fitted it the week before :shock: . Apparently she didn`t think it "necessary" to let me know :roll: . There are words but i don`t want to be banned from the forum. :lol:



Doug - I had this with a client a couple of years ago. Labour only kitchen installation. Got there and pretty much the same thing happened as in your example. So I asked her what she was proposing to do about the fact that I now had a week without work, because I had booked my time to her. "Nothing" was the response.

So I billed her the full amount, with a covering letter that she had contracted my time for that week, and I had therefore lost a weeks work because she no longer required a kitchen fitting. Obviously she asked how you can bill somebody for work which hasn't been done - fair point, but misses the point of my covering letter. 

Needless to say, she didn't pay up (not that I expected her to). I was, however, able to offset the "bad debt" of the unpaid invoice against my income for the year, thereby gaining tax relief.

Cheers

Karl


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## BradNaylor

Do you not take a deposit?

I would definitely get a deposit for at least 25% of the final bill, even for a labour-only job. I would justify this by pointing out how busy I was, and that if they wanted to book a week of my time, a commitment was necessary.

Even if you've no work on, it is always best to tell customers that you are booked up months in advance. They are then ever so grateful when you manage to 'fit them in'.

A deposit should be required in order to secure your services.



Karl":329k9dsw said:


> I was, however, able to offset the "bad debt" of the unpaid invoice against my income for the year, thereby gaining tax relief.



Clever!

What's to stop a tradesman issuing a load of made-up invoices, logging them as bad debts, and then claiming tax relief?

:wink:

Cheers
Dan


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## Doctor

Exactly, that is what is stated on my initial invoice, like Dan mine is 25-33% of the total and reads
Deposit to secure the services of Armstrong Jordan Ltd..... etc, etc.
I never consider a job in the bag and scheduled in until I cash the cheque.


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## Karl

Dan Tovey":8su83h9c said:


> What's to stop a tradesman issuing a load of made-up invoices, logging them as bad debts, and then claiming tax relief?
> 
> :wink:
> 
> Cheers
> Dan



Well I suspect that the tax man would have a raised eyebrow if the main income stream on your SA return was "Bad Debts"..... :lol: 

Personally I never take deposits for a labour only job. In 3 1/2 years I have only had the two "bad debts" - the one mentioned earlier, and a £200 BD, which was on a £3.5k job. So I don't lose too much sleep over it.

For jobs with sizeable materials cost (fitted wardrobes, decking) etc, I ask for 50% of the total job value as a deposit.

Cheers

Karl


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## BradNaylor

Meanwhile, back at the thread....


All four units have been completed and the top sections disassembled for easier finishing.

A day of sanding was followed by a couple of days of spraying with primer - two coats with a denib in between.

















This is just repetitive, boring work. It is however, vitally important if a good end result is going to be obtained.

Tomorrow and Monday I'll be top-coating everything. That's actually a lot easier and more fun! I just need an empty and dust-free workshop.

I've roped in Karl to help me fit them on Wednesday and Thursday. We'll take plenty of photos as we go.

I just hope the bloody things fit!

:lol: 

Cheers
Dan


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## Doug B

Dan Tovey":31hjrrox said:


> Do you not take a deposit?
> 
> Cheers
> Dan



I`ve never taken a deposit in 11 years of self employment, i`ve never had a bad debt, & until recently never lost a job or had someone pull a trick like this woman did.
Perhaps i`ve just been lucky, i`d rather think, that the customer has always been happy to pay for the job i`ve done. Perhaps you`re right & in these economic times i`ll have to start asking for a deposit.

The cupboards look like they are coming on well, i look forward to seeing them being fitted.


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## BradNaylor

Doug B":3azaao7t said:


> The cupboards look like they are coming on well, i look forward to seeing them being fitted.



So do I, mate.

So do I!


Dan


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## chippy1970

Nice job Dan, when you price up stuff like this do you completely design the whole thing and work out all the parts first or do you have a shortcut way of getting a final price.

I could do with a few tips I have been a chippy/joiner for 20 years now and do all types of carpentry, but because I might not do a built in cupboard for a while I never have a set way for doing things. One thing I have set on is that I build carcases from 18 mdf with 6 or 9 mm backs then I usually level these in and scribe in-fills in all around. The last ones I did I tried face frames for a change and they looked so much better, I think they are the way to go from now on. I used a Kreg jig to do mine as they were solid timber not MDF, have not got the luxury of a Domino yet.


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## CNC Paul

Hi Chippy,

I make all kinds of fitted and freestanding cabinets, I am not working at the moment due to an injury, but if you fancy a chat and a coffee come over to the workshop.

Just PM me for contact.


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## BradNaylor

chippy1970":36ps227s said:


> Nice job Dan, when you price up stuff like this do you completely design the whole thing and work out all the parts first or do you have a shortcut way of getting a final price.



Nearly all my stuff is made of MR MDF and painted, or lipped veneered MDF with solid face frames and doors.

The painted jobs take longer because of the finishing, but the 'wood' jobs have more cost in the materials. Overall though, I reckon they come out about the same price. In both cases, the vast majority of the price the customer pays is for my time, not for the materials used.

So yes, I do have a shortcut way of getting a final price.

I simply estimate how long a job is going to take me from start to finish, including the fitting. For instance, a painted MDF alcove unit with doors at the bottom and shelving above will take me about a week - 3 days planning and making, 1 day finishing, and 1 day fitting.

My total overheads are about £40 per day. On an average job, I will also use around £40 worth of materials, fittings, and consumables a day. So I simply calculate a final price by charging my time out at £250 per day, including materials.

This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...

:wink: 

Of course, if I am quoting for a solid maple dining table or if the client specifies some particularly expensive hardware I will be more careful in my costings. But for most of my bread and butter work I find this method works fine. 

It also has the advantage of my being able to give a potential client a price for a job the first time I go round to see them. This means I can usually close the sale there and then without messing around doing a quote. I like to drive away with a signed order and a deposit cheque in my pocket!

Cheers
Dan


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## BradNaylor

Everything was going swimmingly with the painting of the alcove units yesterday until I wandered nonchalantly into the timber store to pull down four 8' lengths of tulipwood cornice moulding which I have made for me by a local company and keep in stock for jobs just like this.


Only three lengths left... AARGH!!! The units are all over 4' wide so I need four lengths unless I join them - which is not something I want to do.

There's nothing for it but to make some out of 22mm MDF. My cutters are a slightly different profile to the bought-in stuff so I have to make the lot. At least it gives me a chance to show you how it's done. :lol: 

I've never used MDF before for this job and I' surprised how easy it is. With hardwoods I cut the profile in 5 or 6 shallow passes but the MDF goes through in one pass without trouble.

The profile is cut in two halves as my spindle moulder is only a little'un.

First half












I then flip the board over and cut the other half











Trim the edges at 45 degrees on the table saw. Isn't it neat how the flash on a camera 'stops' the blade?






Within half an hour I've got a pile of cornice






I always like to mitre the ends before finishing. No need for shooting boards in this workshop! :lol: 






And a quick coat of primer before going home to see what's for tea!






I had these cutters made up to my specification by my local saw doctor. I'd be happy to email details if anyone is interested in having some made.

Cheers
Dan


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## promhandicam

The Alchemist":137q1358 said:


> snip . . The painted jobs take longer because of the finishing, but the 'wood' jobs have more cost in the materials. Overall though, I reckon they come out about the same price.



I've come to the same conclusion only my preference is for veneered as I don't have the space to spray the painted ones. I've also found a good supplier for veneered mdf which makes the material costs less.



The Alchemist":137q1358 said:


> This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...



Is that what you are charging for one alcove or a pair? In some ways there isn't a lot more work to make a pair than to make one. FWIW, the oak ones I just did were £1400 supplied and fitted which I was pleased with. 

Steve[/quote]


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## BradNaylor

promhandicam":5fq7txm6 said:


> The Alchemist":5fq7txm6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> This makes an average alcove unit £1250. That to me is a nice, profitable weeks work. Particularly if I can knock it out in 4 days...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that what you are charging for one alcove or a pair? In some ways there isn't a lot more work to make a pair than to make one. FWIW, the oak ones I just did were £1400 supplied and fitted which I was pleased with.
> 
> Steve
Click to expand...


I charge around £1250 for one alcove. As you rightly say, doing two doesn't take twice as long so I might charge £2000 for a pair if I'm feeling generous.

:wink: 

Dan


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## Buckeye

Check out some of the built ins and offices from this place in their photo galleries. Some great work and inspiration

http://www.crown-point.com/builtins/builtins.html


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## BradNaylor

Buckeye":2y7nusnh said:


> Check out some of the built ins and offices from this place in their photo galleries. Some great work and inspiration
> 
> http://www.crown-point.com/builtins/builtins.html



Very nice, in an 'American' kind of way.

I'm tempted to print some of those photos off and make a portfolio of them, Pinky style!

:lol: 

Dan


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## crownpoint

The Alchemist":3i2sc7jf said:


> Very nice, in an 'American' kind of way.
> 
> I'm tempted to print some of those photos off and make a portfolio of them, Pinky style!
> 
> :lol:
> 
> Dan



Thanks, glad you like my photos and the hard work of our crew! 

Jeff


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## DangerousDave

I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?

I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it

Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.

Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)


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## chippy1970

DangerousDave":ckjowp5b said:


> I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?
> 
> I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it
> 
> Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.
> 
> Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)



The last one I did with timber face frames I used the kreg jig to fit the frames too, all the kreg holes were on the out side of the carcase so hidden.

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... t=kreg+jig


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## JonnyD

DangerousDave":28i4e6n5 said:


> I know a lot of you chaps use Dominos for face frames, but whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads? Would you then paint the face frame after installation (i'm thinking about the brad holes) :?
> 
> I'm going to be making a face frame using Kreg pocket screws soon, but am agonizing over how to fit it
> 
> Duncan, love the WIPs, keep 'em coming.
> 
> Buckeye, you're just down the road from me (I'm in Bangor)



I usually pocket screw the face frame to the carcase.

If the carcase is fixed and there is no way of using pocket screws I have in the past used the red plastic biscuits which grip and clamp with some glue on the carcase edge. http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Lame ... -22531.htm. They are pretty expensive but you might be able to find someone who does smaller quantities.

I sometimes use these fixings as well which allow the frame to be taken off if necessary or can be used with glue for a secure fixing.

http://www.hafele.co.uk/Hafele35a1/Temp ... ress%2Dfit

Jon


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## CNC Paul

You could allways use the Norm Abram's method.....Bloody great nail gun 8)


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## BradNaylor

DangerousDave":qm866aax said:


> whats the best way to attach the frame to the carcasses in situ if you haven't got one? Biscuits/glue/brads?



My plan with this job is to scribe the face frame to the alcove and then to attach it to the carcass down on the ground using glue, clamps, and the Domino slots I have already cut in the workshop. Biscuits would work just as well.

Then, with the help of my assistant Karl, lift the upper units into place atop the base units wherin they will slot snugly into their respective alcove.

He says confidently...

:roll: 

We will know by Thursday night.

Dan


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## Benchwayze

Tell you what Dan. 

I wish I was young again. I would be having a go myself.

I hate MDF and would never have considered using it for even built-ins. 
But I do have profiling cutters, biscuit-jointers etc., so maybe I should have decided to use it, because I always realised it was 'doable'. I just never thought there would be a market for it. 

Mind you, I'd have a problem lifting that cabinet, in 18mm MDF.


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## DangerousDave

Ah, now I get it  So I level the cabinets in place, offer up the (shop assembled) frame and scribe it as I would an ordinary fillet. Then _remove the cabinets, place them flat on the ground and fix the face frame using pocket screws on the outside of the carcass sides_ Bob's yer uncle. Now, why didn't I think of that  This is the first time I'm trying fitted units with a face frame as opposed to fillets, think it'll look a lot better. Thanks for the help, chaps much appreciated


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## Mike Saville

Watching this thread with much interest as I have many such alcoves to fit in my house (10 if I wanted to do them all!!).


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## BradNaylor

Karl and I have been fitting the base units today - we will have the upper units fitted tomorrow. 

I'll post some photos then.

Cheers
Dan


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## katellwood

Dan 

The cutterblock for the cornice, what sort of steel is it to cut MDF so cleanly 

regards


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## Karl

The Alchemist":38dt9y0b said:


> we will have the upper units fitted tomorrow.



Ever the optimist....... :lol: 

Cheers

Karl


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## BradNaylor

karl":1589ccru said:


> The Alchemist":1589ccru said:
> 
> 
> 
> we will have the upper units fitted tomorrow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ever the optimist....... :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Karl
Click to expand...


I see...

Trying to wangle another days works out of me, eh?

:lol: 

See you later!

Dan


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## houtslager

* photos *


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## BradNaylor

Right, time for an update;

Our good friend Karl came out to help me with the fitting and got off to a flying start with a base unit and perfectly scribed top. 







One we'd got all the base units in the upper face frames had to be scribed to the alcove recesses. Note how I'm working on the _back_ of the frame.






Cutting on the back of the frame reduces tear-out from the jigsaw.






Hand-tool wizard Karl fine tunes the scribe with his... erm... Bosch power planer!






Upper units in place and doors hung.











Now we're getting there...






*HOWEVER!!*

We've got a problem. I normally build these units with backs on them. This client though, specified that she didn't want backs on the upper units, preferring instead to see the painted walls.

When we got the units in place we discovered that the walls are not just a bit out - they lean forward by up to 2" at the top, meaning we are left with unsightly gaps at the base of the upper units.






The only thing for it is to make backs from 6mm MDF and to paint them in the colour of the walls. Fortunately we haven't fiixed the upper units into position yet so can lift them off, fix the backs, and put them back up again without difficulty. Luckily the client had a spare tin of the neccessary paint co I know what I'm going to be doing over the weekend!

Lesson learned - always put backs on fitted units like these. It's the first time I haven't and I've been caught out!

We're going back one day next week to finish off.

Cheers
Dan


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## chippy1970

Dan do you spray with an HVLP system if so do you need alot of room for that or do you think I could use it in my 4m x 4m workshop.

Looking good buy the way shame about the backs I had that once with some oak units where the client wanted to see the wall behind so I just used plain 6mm mdf and she got her decorator to paint it the same colur as the wall.


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## Doctor

Looking good Duncan, I think everyone has been caught out like that at somepoint, like you say never again.
When I used to fit  I always used reverse cut blades, in the jigsaw and cut using the jigsaw upside down but following my line on the face of the frame, I know this will sound odd but believe me it is more accurate and no blow out.
You need to lay of the pies a bit, that t shirt looks a bit tight around the waist :lol: :lol:


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## Karl

Doctor":10m36aae said:


> You need to lay of the pies a bit, that t shirt looks a bit tight around the waist :lol: :lol:



He was breathing in when I took that picture :lol:


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## Doctor

Did you have a little go on the trampoline? or i bet karl had a go on the bike whilst you pushed him around the garden? or is it just me.........


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## Karl

I tried, but I couldn't get my knees under the handle bars.


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## BradNaylor

chippy1970":1vmkx5w3 said:


> Dan do you spray with an HVLP system if so do you need alot of room for that or do you think I could use it in my 4m x 4m workshop.



I use conventional spray guns and a compressor. The most important thing is a decent spray booth; you can normally pick them up second hand for between £300 and £500 complete with fan and motor. This is mine. 






They are space hogs though. My shop is 10m x 6m and I don't think one would fit in anywhere smaller and give enough room for all the other stuff.

heers
Dan


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## BradNaylor

Doctor":l0eph417 said:


> You need to lay of the pies a bit, that t shirt looks a bit tight around the waist :lol: :lol:



Fair enough.

I've put about three stone on since I gave up smoking.



Unfortunately that was fifteen years ago so as an excuse it's kind of past its sell by date!

:lol: 

Dan


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## Doctor

I gave up 8 years ago, just finished a nice roast dinner and still have the urge to light up.
I still love the smell of fresh smoke but the one thing which nearly makes me gag on the spot is smokers breath, I just never new prior to giving up.
I'd use the excuse it's all muscle Duncan :lol: :lol: just a bit wobbly


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## promhandicam

Hi Duncan (assuming that is still your name :wink: )

I'm interested in the shelves you've made. I see that you have added a deep lipping / edging strip to them front and back - presumably to hopefully stop them from bowing, but they still look to be quite thin in comparison to their length. Just wondering what the dimensions actually are and if you do any calculations to determine sag - for example using something like this? The shelves do appear to be fixed which helps but if end up being loaded with books I think that the sag would be noticeable.

Steve


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## BradNaylor




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## PowerTool

=D> =D> =D> 

Look absolutely excellent  

Andrew


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## MickCheese

Fantastic.

Thanks for posting these really informative WIPs. I gain some really great tips.

Regards

Mick


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## chippy1970

Nice job Dan.

Now where did you get that WHITE :shock: Makita radio I have only seen blue ones.


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## JonnyD

Very nice Duncan. The MDF backs look like they have done the trick. 

Jon


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## Dave S

Those really do look very smart indeed.

Thanks for sharing.

Dave


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## mailee

Excellent Duncan, up to your usual standard dare I say. Nice touch on the backs too. I just hope my bedroom suite turns out quite as good. :wink:


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## Karl

chippy1970":147diraa said:


> Nice job Dan.
> 
> Now where did you get that WHITE :shock: Makita radio I have only seen blue ones.



Hi Chippy

That's my Makita. I got it from e-bay about a year ago, and I believe it was imported from the states.

I primarily got it because it has an input for an MP3 or CD player, but the new blue Makita radios now come with the same input.

Cheers

Karl


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## promhandicam

promhandicam":2ql9mb1h said:


> snip . . .Just wondering . . . if you do any calculations to determine sag . . .



Silence was the stern reply :wink:


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## DangerousDave

Superb job, best WIP yet  I can see why you have a full order book.


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## chippy1970

Karl":3avq27wz said:


> chippy1970":3avq27wz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice job Dan.
> 
> Now where did you get that WHITE :shock: Makita radio I have only seen blue ones.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Chippy
> 
> That's my Makita. I got it from e-bay about a year ago, and I believe it was imported from the states.
> 
> I primarily got it because it has an input for an MP3 or CD player, but the new blue Makita radios now come with the same input.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Karl
Click to expand...


Yeah there are a few people I work with who have the blue ones they have a really good sound and as you say you can plug an ipod into them too.

I just did a search and you can still get the white special edition ones on ebay.


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## chipz

Here I'm screwing on an end panel






Hi duncan the end panel in the photo,How wide is it,i notice that you add a piece of timber to the inside of the unit ,but i see in one of your photos the other side of the face frame is inline with the unit itself with no added timber inside the unit, does this mean you use two different types of hinge inset and layon. I have just looked at your cutting list ,it says the stiles are 60mm so if the flush side is 60mm minus 18mm carcass thickness that leaves 42mm,so the side in your photo above end panel would be minus 18mm for carcass plus 22mm for the return would i be right in saying the extra piece of timber you add to the the carcass for the hinges would be 20mm? thanks.


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## BradNaylor

You've confused me a bit there mate but yes, I do use a mix of lay-on and inset hinges on most of my jobs. Inset on the outer doors and lay-on on the inner doors usually.


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## clewlowm

duncan. what has happened to your thumb? have you had a big toe transplanted in its place?


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## chipz

BradNaylor":1s77qnvu said:


> You've confused me a bit there mate but yes, I do use a mix of lay-on and inset hinges on most of my jobs. Inset on the outer doors and lay-on on the inner doors usually.


 Hi duncan the photo above the end panel how wide is it 60mm i guess so when you fit it to the carcass it over hangs the inside of the carcass by 20mm,because if the return piece is 22mm and the carcass is 18mmyou are left with 20mm,so then you have to add a piece of 20mm thickness timber inside the carcass see the photo below so it is in line with the edge of the end panel so you can attach the hinge to it? ,so you used inset hinges for both sides of the unit ?


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## chipz

The added piece of timber is in this photo on the left of the unit ,it looks like a strip of softwood inside the carcass .


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