# ...........



## Claymore (28 Jul 2017)

.


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2017)

Top man! =D> 

Where we are now (near Hadrian's Wall...what the heck do people see in it? :shock: ) we still unfortunately have a footpath through the estate.

Sunday 1...LOML was just walking up to the house, turned the corner and met two people wandering about. She asked what were they doing and the reply was 'We've come for a look round". WTF ?

Few Sunday's later, again she happens to walk back to the house only to see some numb nuts, getting out of their car and having parked it on our lawn. Just about to go off for a walk. WTF ?

What is it with those cretins?

Today, I come back from the town and find a car parked in our turning area..They have driven down our drive to get there. Big sign saying "XXXXX House" .How I stayed polite I will never know.


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## dynax (28 Jul 2017)

RogerS":3crue079 said:


> Top man! =D>
> 
> Where we are now (near Hadrian's Wall...what the heck do people see in it? :shock: ) we still unfortunately have a footpath through the estate.
> 
> ...




me being me, who can't stand people like that would dig a trench all round the car :twisted:


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## Claymore (28 Jul 2017)

.


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## novocaine (28 Jul 2017)

Sodding landed gentry. You're all the same.


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## NazNomad (28 Jul 2017)

I had a couple of guys walk up the field one day...

Me - ''Can I help you?''

Guy 1 - ''We're looking for a water pipe''

Me - ''What can you possibly expect to achieve with a water pipe when you're too dumb to read the 'PRIVATE PROPERTY - NO TRESPASSING'' sign next to the gate you just climbed over''.

Guy 2 - ''Someone said the water main was here''.

Me - ''Well it's not, so you can... off''.

_I have a very low threshold for stupid people._


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## RogerS (28 Jul 2017)

Claymore":x5ew1pp9 said:


> .....
> ps Love it around Hadrian's wall did they ever get it finished? lol
> ...




Nah...tourists kept nicking the stones :lol:


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## RossJarvis (29 Jul 2017)

Yep, I hate tourists, always getting in the way when I'm on holiday. Not quite as bad as other road users though.


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## Bm101 (29 Jul 2017)

As one of the primary landowners in London (mostly highways passed down by heritage, will and estate) imagine my surprise when travelling down the Euston Road (in my family's care for many a year) this very morn, an Uber driver impeded by a bus tried to encroach upon my families property!? The very shock of it. I signalled both my ownership of the road, the lack of space for transitional vagrancy and my hereditary right of way with a gentlemanly toot of my vehicular's horn. Imagine my surprise then when I was met with a barrage of vile abuse and the hand gestures that seemed to indicate the other driver wanted to indulge in a game of one potato two potato three potato four. Flabbergasted, I maintained my road position whist said corpulent was forced to adhere shockingly to the rules of the Queens highway and brake sharply. Severley admonished he was seemingly forced by indiscipline and intolerant response into the bus lane. As the camera flashed I of course as a Gentleman Of The Road refrained from laughing smugly. Seemingly incensed he caught me up 3 sets of lights later. It appears he was surprised when he looked at me and realised we were now at at standstill and he was no longer protected by vehicular movement. I gently suggested by opening my van door, leaning out and cupping my hand to my ear that I had misunderstood his intention to play one potato two potato three potato four and did he indeed want to repeat it to my face now we were at a standstill and he had no where to run it seemed he had lost some items of minor value because he stared intently redfaced at the floor of his taxi and continued to do so as I questioned the legitimacy of his family's right to dominate the road. And, the very cheek of it, to act like he owned it. He seemed strangely reluctant to answer. Honour as a gentleman sated, I continued on my journey blessing my heritage as part of the Worshipful Company of Mad Window Cleaners Who Dont Give Two F***s If You Really Want Some Pal and slowly relinquishing my hold on the pry bar I keep to hand for such altercations with prying stuff at work Officer and I drove off whistling cheerfully. What is the world coming to I thought as I sallied forth down the highway. _Some people really should be able to control their tempers _ I thought happily as I drove off into the sunrise.


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## Claymore (29 Jul 2017)

Bm101":18xaaiww said:


> As one of the primary landowners in London (mostly highways passed down by heritage, will and estate) imagine my surprise when travelling down the Euston Road (in my family's care for many a year) this very morn, an Uber driver impeded by a bus tried to encroach upon my families property!? The very shock of it. I signalled both my ownership of the road, the lack of space for transitional vagrancy and my hereditary right of way with a gentlemanly toot of my vehicular's horn. Imagine my surprise then when I was met with a barrage of vile abuse and the hand gestures that seemed to indicate the other driver wanted to indulge in a game of one potato two potato three potato four. Flabbergasted, I maintained my road position whist said corpulent was forced to adhere shockingly to the rules of the Queens highway and brake sharply. Severley admonished he was seemingly forced by indiscipline and intolerant response into the bus lane. As the camera flashed I of course as a Gentleman Of The Road refrained from laughing smugly. Seemingly incensed he caught me up 3 sets of lights later. It appears he was surprised when he looked at me and realised we were now at at standstill and he was no longer protected by vehicular movement. I gently suggested by opening my van door, leaning out and cupping my hand to my ear that I had misunderstood his intention to play one potato two potato three potato four and did he indeed want to repeat it to my face now we were at a standstill and he had no where to run it seemed he had lost some items of minor value because he stared intently redfaced at the floor of his taxi and continued to do so as I questioned the legitimacy of his family's right to dominate the road. And, the very cheek of it, to act like he owned it. He seemed strangely reluctant to answer. Honour as a gentleman sated, I continued on my journey blessing my heritage as part of the Worshipful Company of Mad Window Cleaners Who Dont Give Two F***s If You Really Want Some Pal and slowly relinquishing my hold on the pry bar I keep to hand for such altercations with prying stuff at work Officer and I drove off whistling cheerfully. What is the world coming to I thought as I sallied forth down the highway. _Some people really should be able to control their tempers _ I thought happily as I drove off into the sunrise.




:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Lons (29 Jul 2017)

Problem is that most of the tourists, especially those in huge 4x4s come from the big cities and have never seen a lawn or field never mind a gate. Have to make allowances for the poor sods. :wink:

You joke about them taking stones Roger but it's true, I've seen it happen. :roll:


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## Jacob (29 Jul 2017)

Lons":1ax0dceo said:


> Problem is that most of the tourists, especially those in huge 4x4s come from the big cities and have never seen a lawn or field never mind a gate. Have to make allowances for the poor sods. :wink:
> 
> You joke about them taking stones Roger but it's true, I've seen it happen. :roll:


In my experience (vaguely amateur archaeologist) most ancient monument vandalism is committed by farmer landowners, some removed completely. 
A local bronze age tumulus was attacked by tractor and digger some years ago. He found some broken pots and a few bones but nothing of value apparently.
A farmer was caught removing stones from a small stone circle in Wales because he thought they might be worth a bit.
You will find that much of Hadrian's wall and many varieties of stone, megaliths etc. were removed in the recent and ancient past for building purposes; pig sties, gateposts etc
Not to mention the farmers who seem to hate their work and the whole area is covered in junk, wrecked farm machinery, black plastic sheets trodden into the mud etc etc.
Gerrorf moy laand!! :roll: Land tax long overdue!


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## NazNomad (29 Jul 2017)

Jacob":3o97w94k said:


> Land tax long overdue!



... from someone that doesn't own any? :-D


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## Lons (29 Jul 2017)

Well some people who shall remain nameless can't resist a dig, despite no personal experience I strongly suspect. Have you even been to Hadrians wall or is it something else dug out of the papers and internet and announced as "fact". :roll:


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## Jacob (29 Jul 2017)

Lons":1h0mdib3 said:


> Well some people who shall remain nameless can't resist a dig, despite no personal experience I strongly suspect. Have you even been to Hadrians wall or is it something else dug out of the papers and internet and announced as "fact". :roll:


Yes have been to Hadrians wall and yes personal experience involved and have had confrontations with some appalling land owners.
It's hardly a new idea that farmers can be some of the worst custodians of the landscape. Not least because they have the access and the power (and the EU subsidies - but not for long :lol: ) Not all of them of course.


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## Claymore (29 Jul 2017)

.


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## AJB Temple (29 Jul 2017)

Some years ago I owned a house and surrounding farm (rented out) perched atop a hill in Surrey. You had to get to it down a no through road and then a long drive way off that, to reach the house, which was basically set in a 7 acre field. Regularly in the summer we would get people having picnics in our garden. Usually they would park part way down in our drive in " the parking spot" , which was actually a turning spot opposite a field entrance, so we could get a tractor and trailer through. 

Mostly they were embarrassed and apologetic. Some were stroppy and rude. The stroppy and rude ones were easily dealt with: at the turn off point we had a cattle grid that we could lift really easily to dig out the ditch. It could be locked up. Sometimes we left it locked up for ages....

Now and again we would get coping stones pinched for our main gate entrance. Really annoyed me. Always assumed that was the work of travellers.


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## Jacob (29 Jul 2017)

AJB Temple":xv9f1mcg said:


> ...
> Now and again we would get coping stones pinched for our main gate entrance. Really annoyed me. Always assumed that was the work of travellers.


Could have been farmers? What would travellers want with coping stones? Clue - they don't have walls. :lol:


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## Claymore (29 Jul 2017)

.


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## Jacob (29 Jul 2017)

Claymore":2mn51v6m said:


> ......
> ...... 99% of tourists are no problem but every now and again you get some funny incidents with them and no harms done.....


Same with farmers. 
Nowadays lot of country people depend on visitors for their livelihood so they tend to be better behaved than they were. Occasionally you just have to point out to an irritable farmer that you do actually buy local lamb/ beef/ etc etc which keeps his farm going, or pay rent for local holiday cottages, B&Bs etc. They are not all totally thick!


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## NazNomad (29 Jul 2017)

Claymore":ygez0a5y said:


> ... the Grannies are the best as they say anything without thinking.



Never forget my Nan in Hay-on-Wye years ago, walking around every shop saying to bemused shopkeepers, ''I Am Spock''.

We were falling over laughing, I eventually got that book online. :-D


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## Lons (29 Jul 2017)

Jacob":1uor3r62 said:


> [Yes have been to Hadrians wall and yes personal experience involved and have had confrontations with some appalling land owners.
> It's hardly a new idea that farmers can be some of the worst custodians of the landscape. Not least because they have the access and the power (and the EU subsidies - but not for long :lol: ) Not all of them of course.



Yes of course you have, as a tourist, maybe it was you nicking the stones. :wink: I've just been away for a few weeks but unlike you I don't consider myself to be "an expert" on all things Canadian or Alaskan just because I've been there on holiday. :roll: 

I'm not defending farmers either, I know too many of them to do that but they're clearly another source of annoyance to you. They aren't all bad despite your prejudiced view.

How can anyone be surprised that you've introduced a political element into this thread as you never fail to oblige. (hammer)


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## NazNomad (29 Jul 2017)

You only need to get stuck behind one tractor to label every farmer a nuisance. :-D


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## Lons (29 Jul 2017)

Biggest problem we have in rural areas are the scrotes coming out from the rough town areas looking for easy pickings. They arrive in stolen cars looking to break in to houses, sheds and target farms for diesel and, tools and quads.

We're lucky, I'm surrounded by coppers so our village is very well policed.


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## Jacob (29 Jul 2017)

Lons":1d8onaen said:


> ..... I've just been away for a few weeks but unlike you I don't consider myself to be "an expert" on all things Canadian or Alaskan just because I've been there on holiday.....


I've lived in the country nearly all my life - much longer than you've been in Canada or Alaska (I guess). I've also worked on farms.


> ...How can anyone be surprised that you've introduced a political element into this thread as you never fail to oblige....


Just having a laugh at farmers - many of them voted Brexit and if they get their way will have shot themselves in the foot big time. :lol: 
Mind you there are already more foreign tourists coming to Britain thanks to the falling pound, so somebody will gain by it.


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## Lons (29 Jul 2017)

Jacob":19sm5adj said:


> I've also worked on farms..


Then it was you who nicked the stones from Hadrians wall. (hammer)


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## AJB Temple (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob - I have had coping stones, stiles, troughs, topiary, pots....all kind of things stolen over the years. Clue: people sell it on eBay. Don't be so naive. 

In a few cases I have the theft on CCTV. Police have bigger fish to fry apparently. Or are unwilling to risk confrontation.


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## NazNomad (30 Jul 2017)

Claymore":2zzeepst said:


> ... warned me to get it drilled and bolted to the wall as its an offence to have one...



As usual, Plod making up the Law as they go along.

Should have asked them to elaborate in detail and made them look like idiots (wouldn't have been too difficult as they had already started the ball rolling).


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## RogerS (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob":16se2s7w said:


> ....
> .......yes personal experience involved and have had confrontations........



Now there's a surprise.


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)

I'm just sticking up for tourists and objecting to the dismal "gerrorf moy laand" brigade. We've had battles around here to keep footpaths open and remove Private Property notices. Campaigns to preserve field barns and dry stone walls - robbed of stones and allowed to go derelict by landowners themselves.


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## RogerS (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob":3utfg3ri said:


> I'm just sticking up for tourists and objecting to the dismal "gerrorf moy laand" brigade. We've had battles around here to keep footpaths open and remove Private Property notices. Campaigns to preserve field barns and dry stone walls - robbed of stones and allowed to go derelict by landowners themselves.



No, you're not. You've jumped on your political bigoted soapbox again.


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)

Mind you I agree about 4x4 drivers. Every possible green trail around here has been wrecked by 4x4 convoys. These were often beautiful tracks and trails used by farmers, horse riders, walkers, cyclists, for many years with no problems, now rutted and muddied up and sometimes impossible to use at all. A lot of them have had to be hard surfaced at taxpayers expense, just to allow a lot of fat berks in 4x4s to race around the country making a lot of noise.


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## Lons (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob":3qvs6jzm said:


> Mind you I agree about 4x4 drivers. Every possible green trail around here has been wrecked by 4x4 convoys. These were often beautiful tracks and trails used by farmers, horse riders, walkers, cyclists, for many years with no problems, now rutted and muddied up and sometimes impossible to use at all. A lot of them have had to be hard surfaced at taxpayers expense, just to allow a lot of fat berks in 4x4s to race around the country making a lot of noise.



What a load of cr*p. Why don't you try trespassing on my little bit of land, I guarantee you won't be on it for long. :wink: 
I agree with Rogers post, bigoted political views from a guy who's apparently been everywhere, worked in every trade and knows everything. What a surprise. :lol: 

Some of the biggest vandals of old buildings are the planning authorities, at least the ones I've been involved with who in several instances have fought tooth and nail to stop grade 2 listed buildings to be renovated as they would rather they just fell down and have admitted so to my face. We won all of them during which of course they wasted taxpayers money including mine.
Of course I wouldn't presume to state that as a fact throughout the country. (hammer)

Bob


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)

"gerrorf moy laand" :lol: :lol: 

NB it's perfectly true and fair comment what I said above about 4x4s. Simply a matter of fact in the Peak District where I live. I expect it goes on elsewhere too.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Jul 2017)

We've a town full of Grade 11 listed buildings and sites of burnt out listed buildings. I'm 63 and some buildings have been falling down since I was a child - the council won't allow anyone to alter them, which effectively renders them useless and valueless. There is one site (smack in the middle of town) that has been empty since the building burned down twenty years ago - no one will rebuild it as no one wanted the original building, and the council insist it's rebuilt much the same (although PP has been given for sixteen flats - how that fits with the original frontage - a double fronted house - I don't know). It's also on a flood plain ... which is curious for a town on a hill with a stream running through it.


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## Lons (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob":1y0jous5 said:


> "gerrorf moy laand" :lol: :lol:



Not a bad selfie Jacob, which one is you? :wink:


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## RobinBHM (30 Jul 2017)

A few years back I remembers a tv series 'the planners'

One example was a listed manor house / mansion. A developer wanted to convery it into flats as a luxury development. The cknservation officer kept saying, we cant allow the interior of this building to be altered, some of the interior contains work of historical importance.

The conversion then became non viable, the developer pulled out and the building has remained derelect with a leaking roof.

Conservation officeds should be much more helpful to house owners and builders -without them, no listed building would be repaired or restored.


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)

phil.p":2zrz0vhu said:


> We've a town full of Grade 11 listed buildings and sites of burnt out listed buildings. I'm 63 and some buildings have been falling down since I was a child - the council won't allow anyone to alter them, which effectively renders them useless and valueless. There is one site (smack in the middle of town) that has been empty since the building burned down twenty years ago - no one will rebuild it as no one wanted the original building, and the council insist it's rebuilt much the same (although PP has been given for sixteen flats - how that fits with the original frontage - a double fronted house - I don't know). It's also on a flood plain ... which is curious for a town on a hill with a stream running through it.


It's an ongoing problem. 
On the other hand you get alterations to town and country buildings which are so severe that they are unrecognisable and completely devoid of character. Might as well have been demolished and something entirely different put there.
You have to hope they'll strike a happy mean, which I think they do on the whole.

There's a catch 22; renovations done really well don't get noticed - ideally nothing has changed except the building is in good nick instead of derelict. So their successful projects are more or less invisible. There are a lot of them about, thanks to conservationists!

I've done loads of semi compulsory grant aided renovation works (mostly sash windows) and can say that in spite of the clients' moaning and groaning they've always been happy with the result and glad they were talked out of having brown plastic or hardwood windows instead


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## Lons (30 Jul 2017)

phil.p":zs8gfuhx said:


> We've a town full of Grade 11 listed buildings and sites of burnt out listed buildings. I'm 63 and some buildings have been falling down since I was a child - the council won't allow anyone to alter them, which effectively renders them useless and valueless. There is one site (smack in the middle of town) that has been empty since the building burned down twenty years ago - no one will rebuild it as no one wanted the original building, and the council insist it's rebuilt much the same (although PP has been given for sixteen flats - how that fits with the original frontage - a double fronted house - I don't know). It's also on a flood plain ... which is curious for a town on a hill with a stream running through it.



We had all sorts of problems Phil, some of them are drunk on power. One was a grade 2 listed stable which was falling down and we turned into a very nice house despite the efforts of the authorities to stop us. Their tactics are to bully and delay hoping that you will give up which of course we didn't but even then they throw every obstical that they can find. The other side of the coin was when they decided to move premises from the county hall across to the east side of Northumberland (in the middle of Labour heartland), at a cost of approx £80 million and sell the site for supermarket and houses which are not needed in the area. Before planning was even applied for they cut down a lot of trees some of which had been planted for the queen mother. Luckily, a change of power at the recent local elections has reversed that move but I note no-one has been held to account for the vandalism.

If you or I cut down protected trees we would be prosecuted


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)




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## Phil Pascoe (30 Jul 2017)

My mother many years ago applied for PP to turn a near derelict cottage into a luxury house (£90,000, mid to late seventies). Eight times she was refused as she wished to move the main house a few away from a well which was inches from the original wall, the ninth she was allowed it ... on condition that she she moved it further away from the well.  

If some of them had brains they'd be dangerous.


She was refused permission to build on a field because it was deemed likely to flood. A few months later they gave permission for lagoons on the other side of the road that were not deemed likely to overflow or cause any flooding - despite holding sixty million gallons. :? This plant would have had a truck in and out every three minutes, night and day ... and a neighbour was refused permission not long before this for a bungalow as ... yes, you've guessed ... the road was too busy, and it would increase the traffic.

Fortunately this developement never got off the ground.

Anyway, let's get back to tourists.


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## Lons (30 Jul 2017)

phil.p":12e6vjde said:


> Anyway, let's get back to tourists.



No I'm out of that one Phil. If I wanted to look at juvenile cartoons, I'd buy the tabloids. :roll:


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## Jacob (30 Jul 2017)

It's been set to music!


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## RobinBHM (30 Jul 2017)

Jacob":38ewsi8u said:


>



Im guessing the underlying sentiment here is the old argument of 'landed gentry' rich farmers V anti-establishment, Robin Hood brigade.

I dont think it is really relevant in this thread, those that are commenting about tourists causing a nuisance, are those with a bit of land adjacent to their house, not some farmer with 1,000 acres.

It is amazing how some people have no sensitivity for whether they are straying on private land.

Mind you Im also amazed at the strange places people are happy to park up and set up a picnic. Why do people stop at a layby next to a busy dual carriageway and do that.....


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## Lons (30 Jul 2017)

We need a new forum rule "please don't feed the troll"


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## RobinBHM (30 Jul 2017)

Lons":3ninrfj9 said:


> We need a new forum rule "please don't feed the troll"




I dont know what you mean


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## gwr (30 Jul 2017)

Hi does anyone have a spare coping stone I could have ? My chisels are in need of a sharpen


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jul 2017)

Coping stones are good for flattening water stones on ...


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## monkeybiter (31 Jul 2017)

Trad!


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## heimlaga (31 Jul 2017)

In my oppinion both the "get of my land" gentry and the invasive tourists are just as wretched. 
Boths sides would gain a lot from stepping down a bit and learning to behave and respect other people.

In Finland the right to roam goes back to prehistoric times and is still upheld. However it is a part of the deal that you are not allowed to damage crops nor trees nor fences and that you musn't drive any motorized vehicle offroad without asking the landowner first. It is also a part of the deal that as a legal trespasser you are expected to tell the landowner if you have seen a suspected poacher or a suspected illegal logger or squatter and to tell the police if you find an illegal hemp plantation. It is also a part of the deal that you must respect the landowner's right to privacy and not go too close to inhabited houses.

The system works pretty well.......... until wicked city people buy land and start chasing people away American style both from their own land and their neigfhbour's land....... and until landless yet equally wicked city people arrive with their ATVs and SUVs wrecking havoc and spreading litter on both public and private land....... and then hell breaks loose.


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## Claymore (31 Jul 2017)

...


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

Widely seen as a good thing.
http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths ... -roam.aspx

Result of a long hard battle which produced the National Parks amongst other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_tres ... nder_Scout

No going back - it'll be extended in England too.
And no it doesn't permit you to walk through peoples' gardens.


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## NazNomad (31 Jul 2017)

Claymore":fxotsbaw said:


> I disagree with the right to roam anywhere as its private land ie I paid a lot of money for my own piece of land




Exactly what he said....


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

It's all here for Scotland. 135 pages! but most of the basic stuff is at the front (pages 8,9)

http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications ... 20code.pdf


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## Tasky (31 Jul 2017)

Bm101":1ueh02jq said:


> As one of the primary landowners in London .... I thought happily as I drove off into the sunrise.


 =D> =D> =D> =D> 



Claymore":1ueh02jq said:


> they didn't and warned me to get it drilled and bolted to the wall as its an offence to have one lol


Have?
Not at all, even in Scotland. 
Use to scare off tourists... perhaps. 



Claymore":1ueh02jq said:


> they should move up here and have a relaxed lifestyle with no waiting for doctors/hospital and no police as they aren't needed but they still advertise for new recruits.


No gas, no internet... We're barely 'rural', yet lack a lot of things. 



NazNomad":1ueh02jq said:


> You only need to get stuck behind one tractor to label every farmer a nuisance. :-D


Plan your overtakes better... or don't drive a BMW/Audi and they'll actually let you past!!  



Jacob":1ueh02jq said:


> NB it's perfectly true and fair comment what I said above about 4x4s. Simply a matter of fact in the Peak District where I live. I expect it goes on elsewhere too.


Round here the 4x4 clubs all clubbed together and bought some land, on which they purpose-built an off-roading course. The Mrs is considering joining them...


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

Tasky":zvymm50k said:


> ......
> 
> 
> Jacob":zvymm50k said:
> ...


They've done that around here too, or got permission - in old quarries etc. Actually motor bike scrambling has been going on for years in chosen spots annoying nobody. It's only in the last 20 years or so that they (and 4x4s which are far more damaging) have started wrecking the landscape for everybody.


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## Sheffield Tony (31 Jul 2017)

NazNomad":1bubzygv said:


> Claymore":1bubzygv said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree with the right to roam anywhere as its private land ie I paid a lot of money for my own piece of land
> ...



Well maybe in your cases. But most of the countryside is owned by people who paid nothing for it, but inherited it ultimately from people who just took it, driving out the people who lived there if need be. I feel strongly that we must defend such access to the countryside as we have, it was hard won. As such I always report obstructed roghts of way.


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## RobinBHM (31 Jul 2017)

Jacob":37uuvk5s said:


> Widely seen as a good thing.
> http://www.ramblers.org.uk/advice/paths ... -roam.aspx
> 
> Result of a long hard battle which produced the National Parks amongst other things.
> ...



The link to rambler.org notes the following land can be walked over:
Mountain is land over 600m/1,969ft above sea level and other upland areas of rough, steep land with crags, scree, bare rock and associated vegetation.

Moor is unenclosed areas of semi-natural vegetation, including bog, rough acid grassland and calcareous grassland.

Heath is unenclosed areas of nutrient-poor soils that support acid-loving plants such as heather, gorse, bilberry and bracken.

Down is semi-natural, unimproved grasslands in chalk or limestone areas, perhaps also supporting scattered scrub.

Common land is land registered as common under the Commons Registration Act 1965.

However
No, even with the new freedom to roam in open countryside there are restrictions. First of all to qualify the land must be uncultivated mountain, moor, heath, down and common land, which has been officially mapped. This land is shown in yellow on Ordnance Survey Explorer maps. If you stray off this into *domestic spaces, farmland or gardens* you are trespassing. Land managers also have the right to close off areas of land for 28 days.

I think this thread commenting about 'wayward tourists' is referring to straying onto land that is not available for rambling......so you can tell them to gerrorf my land


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## Lons (31 Jul 2017)

Sheffield Tony":etk1bv3w said:


> NazNomad":etk1bv3w said:
> 
> 
> > Claymore":etk1bv3w said:
> ...



A right of way or properly established footpath should definitely be protected but unfortunately some of the users of those footpaths tend not to stick to them but rather wander all over the place irrespective of livestock and often allowing dogs off the lead. That also includes wandering aimlessly through planted crops making the ones they trample useless. They also throw large sticks for their which can get left behind and damages machinery. Farmers need to make a living like the rest of us.

It happens here and I've encountered it many many times during our travels in the UK and abroad. The rules and general respect is supposed to work both ways.


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## NazNomad (31 Jul 2017)

Tasky":1cou9jfw said:


> Plan your overtakes better... or don't drive a BMW/Audi and they'll actually let you past!!



I drive a Vauxhall.... and quite often the aforementioned tractor. :-D


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## Phil Pascoe (31 Jul 2017)

I found an English mastiff, a doberman, a huge seven year old gander, a sow and a hive of bees quite a good deterent to people out for walkies.
The "travellers" casing the place soon stopped.


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

RobinBHM":2b54yhod said:


> Jacob":2b54yhod said:
> 
> 
> > Widely seen as a good thing.
> ...


Much looser regulations in Scotland where Claymore has settled. Still pretty reasonable for all concerned including the land owners.


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## Claymore (31 Jul 2017)

.


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## RogerS (31 Jul 2017)

Sheffield Tony":2iukvuem said:


> ..... I feel strongly that we must defend such access to the countryside as we have, it was hard won. As such I always report obstructed roghts of way.



Public footpaths. Unfortunately it works both ways, Tony, and many (sometimes it seems like the majority) who use them seem to think that :
(a) the countryside is a glorified theme park 
(b) they can let their dogs cr*p anywhere they want and not bother to pick it up 
(c) let their dogs off the lead when it is blatantly clear to anyone that they are incapable of keeping their dog under control and so should keep their dog on a lead 
(d) walk along in a gaggle talking in VERY LOUD VOICES (they can't all be deaf) 
(e) stand and gawp at our house, pointing all the while 

Over the last few Sundays we have had one couple wandering around our back garden and when challenged kept repeating "But we've come to have a look round" and a few weeks later found someone parked up on our lawn, locking the car as 'They were off for a walk". They didn't seem to comprehend the phrase "This is private land". Luckily for them it was my wife who challenged them.


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## Sawdust=manglitter (31 Jul 2017)

We've since bought somewhere better without it, but reading certain opinions on this thread completely reinforces the decision we made when we pulled out of the sale of a smallholding a week before completion because the solicitor's searches highlighted a public right of way through the land! There are plenty of nature reserves and county parks around (here anyways), so why can't disrespectful self entitled twits respect others' privacy


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## Lons (31 Jul 2017)

> Plan your overtakes better... or don't drive a BMW/Audi and they'll actually let you past!!



Nah - I drive an Audi quatro and it's quick enough to get past. :lol: Anyway, most of the tractor drivers around here pull over when they get a chance if there's a long queue behind them.


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

RogerS":ukjws58q said:


> .....e talking in VERY LOUD VOICES .....


 :lol: Dear oh dear that's terrible! In a gaggle too!! What riff raff. Have they no manners at all? I bet they walk along eating pies with their mouths open. :roll:


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## Jacob (31 Jul 2017)

Sawdust=manglitter":dldlh167 said:


> We've since bought somewhere better without it, but reading certain opinions on this thread completely reinforces the decision we made when we pulled out of the sale of a smallholding a week before completion because the solicitor's searches highlighted a public right of way through the land! There are plenty of nature reserves and county parks around (here anyways), so why can't disrespectful self entitled twits respect others' privacy


I'm afraid disrespectful self-entitled property owners have to respect rights of way. Otherwise they'd all be closed down and we'd have to kick off something like the Kinder march, all over again!


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## Sawdust=manglitter (31 Jul 2017)

Jacob":1ylgf4k2 said:


> I'm afraid disrespectful self-entitled property owners have to respect rights of way. Otherwise they'd all be closed down and we'd have to kick off something like the Kinder march, all over again!


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## RogerS (1 Aug 2017)

Jacob":349aa3px said:


> RogerS":349aa3px said:
> 
> 
> > .....e talking in VERY LOUD VOICES .....
> ...



Hah hah. I put money on you coming out with this trite little snide comment and I was right. 

And aren't you being a tad hypocritical. I recall you posting elsewhere about marching round to your next-door neighbour to moan about his strumming being too noisy.


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## AJB Temple (1 Aug 2017)

The footpaths thing is amusing at times. We had some woodland that was part of the farm. It had stream running through so was a bit boggy in places. There was also an ancient, stiled (farm had dairy cattle), footpath running through, that was very muddy at times. One year we improved the footpath by putting some hard core down and then a thick layer of wood chippings as we cleared out the woodland to get some light into it. Less than a week later I was walking the dogs down there, early one morning, and found a couple shovelling the chippings into two wheelbarrows. I asked what they were doing and the lady said "it makes great mulch so we're taking some home". I explained that the land was mine, as were the chippings, but they were welcome to fill their barrows from the truly enormous pile we had near the farm house, rather than damage the newly surfaced woodland path. I don't think they meant to steal, or vandalise the path, but people do seem to think the countryside is a sort of common resource that they can plunder at will sometimes.


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Aug 2017)

I drove past my mother's smallholding (when the house was being rebuilt) one afternoon and stopped when I saw a man, his wife and two children in the front field with buckets of primrose plants, still pulling them from the hedges. I informed him that it was very obviously private property, and that if he didn't want the police informed he should put them back. I watched as they stuffed them all back in holes in the hedge.
My family owned a hotel at the time, and several weeks later I saw the man concerned in the bar. I told my mother that he was the person I'd seen nicking the primroses, and she told me he was the manager of one of the town's building societies.


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## Jacob (1 Aug 2017)

Could fill this thread with anecdotes about stupid farmers and landowners but why bother? Neither side has a monopoly on wit and wisdom.


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## Lons (1 Aug 2017)

Jacob":1jhm2l1w said:


> Could fill this thread with anecdotes about stupid farmers and landowners but why bother?



I thought you had already tried that (hammer) Nobody cares.

Roger. Can I order a dozen cans of that troll repellant please?


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## Lons (1 Aug 2017)

phil.p":egrz9wq4 said:


> I drove past my mother's smallholding (when the house was being rebuilt) one afternoon and stopped when I saw a man, his wife and two children in the front field with buckets of primrose plants, still pulling them from the hedges. I informed him that it was very obviously private property, and that if he didn't want the police informed he should put them back. I watched as they stuffed them all back in holes in the hedge.
> My family owned a hotel at the time, and several weeks later I saw the man concerned in the bar. I told my mother that he was the person I'd seen nicking the primroses, and she told me he was the manager of one of the town's building societies.



One of the problems Phil. They don't seem to realise that all wildflowers and plants are protected by law unless classed as pest species and pick and dig up whatever they fancy.
I planted a couple of hundred metres of mixed hedging a number of years ago and found 2 guys digging up the plants and some trees. When challenged they said "we thought they were self seeded" wtf? :roll:


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## skipdiver (1 Aug 2017)

Moving to the countryside so as to play rock music as loud as you like. Now that is as good a reason as any. Rightmove here i come.


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## John Brown (1 Aug 2017)

If you disagree with Jacob, you are at liberty to ignore him. 
Sometimes it's hard to tell who's trolling who.
IMO.


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## Lons (1 Aug 2017)

John Brown":263jbtyp said:


> If you disagree with Jacob, you are at liberty to ignore him.
> Sometimes it's hard to tell who's trolling who.
> IMO.


Actually that's a fair comment John. 

Edit: I've ignored his last post :lol: The one following this!


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## Jacob (1 Aug 2017)

Lons":hmlsxymn said:


> ...
> One of the problems Phil. They don't seem to realise that all wildflowers and plants are protected by law unless classed as pest species and pick and dig up whatever they fancy....


Ditto with farmers, who are notorious for destroying ancient woodland, habitat, archaeological sites, rights of access, allowing old buildings to go derelict, polluting rivers and streams, and so on, and on, and on. Not to mention the hunting and shooting faction who dominate and rigorously control vast areas of countryside for their own purposes - which brings us back to the Kinder protest!
Land owners who can't cope with their obligations to the wider community should perhaps sell up and find somewhere more congenial, away from the riff-raff. Antarctica?

NB I am not the troll in this thread, which I think is pretty clear to all, except the trolls of course, which seems to include the usual suspects!


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## RogerS (1 Aug 2017)

Jacob":2buocr5w said:


> .....
> 
> NB I am not the troll in this thread, which I think is pretty clear to all, except the trolls of course, which seems to include the usual suspects!



Now you are just being plain daft, Jacob. Go back to the start of the thread and read the first 11 posts. All in a similar and relatively jocular vein.

And then post 12 from you. Full of anecdotes which you decry in others. Emotive words designed to fire up controversy. Basically trolling.


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## Tasky (1 Aug 2017)

RogerS":1oushrq6 said:


> (b) they can let their dogs cr*p anywhere they want and not bother to pick it up


I do get shouted at over this one - We pick ours up and, in certified biodegradable bags, fling it into the undergrowth away from the footpath. Now, according to these shouty experts, the deer and rabbit and bird and badger and hedgehog and mouse and rat and fox and whatever-else cr*p that is also in that undergrowth is perfectly fine and natural, but adding one dog cowpat utterly destroys the balance of nature and presents a serious health risk to any kids... assuming those kids are able to crawl through 20' of thick bramble bushes to go lick the ground in the first place



Jacob":1oushrq6 said:


> Ditto with farmers, who are notorious for destroying ancient woodland, habitat, archaeological sites


Do these not already have protection orders on them?
No?
Nobody cares about them, then.


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## Lons (1 Aug 2017)

Jacob":3lyy5id1 said:


> NB I am not the troll in this thread, which I think is pretty clear to all, except the trolls of course, which seems to include the usual suspects!



Be interesting to note who the "all" actually are. 
Everyone else must be a troll of course which is why we've been banned on numerous times, but we haven't have we! 
Have you ever been banned from the forums btw?


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## iNewbie (1 Aug 2017)

Tasky":1yg3cov7 said:


> RogerS":1yg3cov7 said:
> 
> 
> > (b) they can let their dogs cr*p anywhere they want and not bother to pick it up
> ...



Its not about the kids - thats a park related thing. Its more about Livestock.

http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com/s ... ties_0.pdf


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## Tasky (1 Aug 2017)

iNewbie":1547hmve said:


> Its not about the kids - thats a park related thing. Its more about Livestock.


Farmers have shotguns and are (supposedly) allowed to shoot any dog it deems as being any kind of threat to their livestock, or somesuch words to that effect. 
I'm therefore not stupid enough to let my dogs _anywhere near_ livestock, except when using a public footpath through private land (which tends not to be grazing land so much anyway), where simple good manners and decorum dictate that our dogs' mess gets removed to a location far from what is effectively someone else's garden. 

Hence casting it into suitable undergrowth, where neither man nor livestock (and rarely anything else) are ever likely to venture, much less be present and un-pricked long enough to eat the contents. 

Moreover, given our dogs' exceptionally good diet and since the diseases are "picked up by dogs which eat infected placenta/foetal material, or raw meat from infected stock", the only way my dogs will become infected in the first place is if the local butcher (himself a livestock farmer) who supplies us with the human grade food upon which our furbabies feast, supplies infected meat in the first place.


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## iNewbie (1 Aug 2017)

Tasky":30eiwpq8 said:


> iNewbie":30eiwpq8 said:
> 
> 
> > Its not about the kids - thats a park related thing. Its more about Livestock.
> ...



Don't shoot the messenger...

I've had dogs so I'm a dog lover. What you do isn't what some other pillocks do. I'm on the edge of town and walk the fields twice daily. You'd be surprised at what some owners do. So I see cattle hassled by dog on a near daily basis - in fact I was nearly killed due to a stampede caused by a dog earlier this year... 

I also see the clowns who don't pick up. The farmer can't use the cut grass from one filed because of the amount of dog rubbish in it. So why you may feel all high and mighty about your standing theres another others bringing you down. 

If I was a farmer I'd be shooting a lot of dogs and their owners... The Pheasants just nodded in agreement. :mrgreen:


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## NazNomad (1 Aug 2017)

_As we speak, I'm crapping in a biodegradable bag, ready to toss into Tasky's garden._


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## Bm101 (1 Aug 2017)

Out of interest how long do the bags take to biodegrade?


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Aug 2017)

Longer than they stayed in my boxer's stomach.


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## NazNomad (1 Aug 2017)

Bm101":1z8iufbd said:


> Out of interest how long do the bags take to biodegrade?



Hopefully, longer than it takes me to drive from Wales to Reading. :-D


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Aug 2017)

=D> =D>


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## RogerS (1 Aug 2017)

Tasky":2lad94p4 said:


> ...We pick ours up and, in certified biodegradable bags, fling it into the undergrowth away from the footpath. ....



I call it litter. Take it home. What's so difficult about that ?


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## MikeK (1 Aug 2017)

NazNomad":2ycdjjp0 said:


> Bm101":2ycdjjp0 said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest how long do the bags take to biodegrade?
> ...



My wife just yelled at me to be quiet. She heard me laughing through two floors and is trying to sleep.


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## Tasky (2 Aug 2017)

iNewbie":y2nmhth9 said:


> Don't shoot the messenger...


But whoever sent the message is usually hiding behind a tree way over there... can't imagine why!!



iNewbie":y2nmhth9 said:


> So I see cattle hassled by dog on a near daily basis - in fact I was nearly killed due to a stampede caused by a dog earlier this year...


Many peole don't take the time to understand even the basics of what they're dealing with when it comes to having dogs. 



iNewbie":y2nmhth9 said:


> If I was a farmer I'd be shooting a lot of dogs and their owners... The Pheasants just nodded in agreement. :mrgreen:


Shoot the owners and find the dogs a proper home. 



NazNomad":y2nmhth9 said:


> _As we speak, I'm crapping in a biodegradable bag, ready to toss into Tasky's garden._


Good luck getting close enough... Mind the cows, watch out for the shotgun club and the rowdy reckless 4x4 green laners, don't stop on the level crossing... and if your SatNav hasn't gotten you completely lost by this time, you should be lined up nicely for the 60mm mortar. 
Welcome to Reading!!



Bm101":y2nmhth9 said:


> Out of interest how long do the bags take to biodegrade?


These are certified for 3 months in an oxygen environment (ie not buried), but can take less time if exposed to direct sunlight. 



NazNomad":y2nmhth9 said:


> Hopefully, longer than it takes me to drive from Wales to Reading. :-D


Depends what you ate beforehand and whether we have any roadworks this week... as is, the M4 has speed restrictions, so it's not looking favourable...


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## Claymore (2 Aug 2017)

.......


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## NazNomad (2 Aug 2017)

Claymore":31nkpx8i said:


> ...AND a Mad Welshman who is crapping in biodegradable bags



How very dare you, sir! I'm an Essex boy, born & bred.

They Welsh just allow me to live here, as long as I don't fling crépe at them.


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## Tasky (2 Aug 2017)

RogerS":1k11ospf said:


> I call it litter. Take it home. What's so difficult about that ?


This was supposed to be an environmentally friendly way of merging it back into nature... kinda the whole idea of a bag in which you can leave it to decompose off the pathway and not upset the delicate balance of nature... 

But _just_ for you, if I ever manage to get over all the other rubbish (literal and otherwise) on these routes, I'll be sure to take it as far as the nearest suitable container... knowing of course, before you bring it up, that disposal in cess pits, septic tanks and any landfill-bound waste collection is equally as heinous a crime, as flushing it down the main sewer.



NazNomad":1k11ospf said:


> They Welsh just allow me to live here, as long as I don't fling crépe at them.


You mean we're not allowed to transport convicts to Australia any more but the Welsh allow them, in return for Plaid Cymru getting an extra couple of Seats?


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## RobinBHM (2 Aug 2017)

I believe that dog bins get emptied and end up in landfill.

It bugs me that some dog owners use non biodegradable bags, like old supermarket bags.

What about those bags that are left hanging on trees or hedgerows? I have always assumed that they are left by people when dont want to carry a bag all the way round a walk, but then forget to collect on the back. Maybe they have been left as the bags actually biodegradable..........


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## RogerS (2 Aug 2017)

Well, you see Tasky, I am struggling to understand the logistics of what you do with your bag. You say 'fling it into the undergrowth'. Just exactly what sort of 'undergrowth' do you have? If it's brambly type of stuff then your bag is just going to hang there like a faecal Xmas decoration. Just great. Super. 

We had a numpty fling a bag into our hedge and when I went to retrieve it discovered that they are not very strong. So to whoever dumped their doggie bag full of cr*p because they were too damn lazy to take it home, may your bag burst in your car.

Or if it's fern type undergrowth then that's not much of a barrier to a kid.

Incidentally, what is all this business about septic tanks etc? How do you dispose of your dog cr*p when you pick it up off the street ? Or do you fling the disposable bag into someone's garden ?

I stand by my original comment. Don't be lazy. Take it home. Don't litter.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Aug 2017)

The bags didn't disintegrate in my boxer's stomach, they'd go through her intact - other than the time she swallowed a duck carcass along with three of them (full) ... then they punctured easily enough. :lol:


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## NazNomad (2 Aug 2017)

This ''boxer'', does it have scales by any chance?

I knew it, it's a friggin' crocodile.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Aug 2017)

Boxer, crocodile ... much the same creature where food is concerned.


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## Claymore (2 Aug 2017)

........


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## Tasky (2 Aug 2017)

RobinBHM":3fzjazl1 said:


> I believe that dog bins get emptied and end up in landfill.


They're _supposed_ to be incinerated or taken to an industrial composting facility that is geared toward pet waste, AFAIK... That's why there are seperate bins specifically. 



RobinBHM":3fzjazl1 said:


> It bugs me that some dog owners use non biodegradable bags, like old supermarket bags.


Well you won't want to get a *brand new* one all dirty, do you...?



RobinBHM":3fzjazl1 said:


> What about those bags that are left hanging on trees or hedgerows? I have always assumed that they are left by people when dont want to carry a bag all the way round a walk, but then forget to collect on the back. Maybe they have been left as the bags actually biodegradable..........


If there are loads on the one tree, that's from people who went out of their way to pick up the poo of dog and cat and rabbit and horse and whatever else (it's surprising how many people can't tell the difference), bagged it and left it like that _"to shame the few"_ who don't pick up after their pup... left it hanging from a tree, right above everyones' heads...!! 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> Just exactly what sort of 'undergrowth' do you have? If it's brambly type of stuff then your bag is just going to hang there like a faecal Xmas decoration. Just great. Super.


I said into, not casually in the vague direction of... 
I mean a proper fling, directly into the base of a thick load of bramble or other suitable bundle of plantlife below the leaf level, not only in waste ground far from the footpath and where no livestock or human being would ever be able to reach without ripping themselves to shreds, but in an area where no livestock or humans would ever find themselves in the first place, me typically choosing areas far away from livestock to begin with, and all... The last people who might have had livestock within 850yds of that area would have been the Romans. 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> We had a numpty fling a bag into our hedge and when I went to retrieve it discovered that they are not very strong.


I can see how that may colour your perception of anyone trying out alternative solutions. There is a common sense aspect to these things. It's not an excuse to leave it wherever. The idea is you place it somewhere well out of people's way, where it and the contents decompose naturally. 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> Or if it's fern type undergrowth then that's not much of a barrier to a kid.


Ah, so THAT's how you keep the destructive little spawn from tresspassing?
Good to know... :lol: 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> Incidentally, what is all this business about septic tanks etc?


Cess and septics are adversely affected by the bags, as they cannot degrade due to the lack of oxygen and sunlight, resulting in the septic system being disrupted and the contents of both later going straight on to the sewage system disposal points whenever they are emptied - Same reason you don't flush them into the main sewers. 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> How do you dispose of your dog cr*p when you pick it up off the street ? Or do you fling the disposable bag into someone's garden ?


We don't have streets in this part of town. No really, the roads have almost no pavements, except outside the occasional house if it's close to the road... and even then we go out the back directly into open land anyway. The farmer is also our landlord and we do with our dogs as he does with his. 
However, for home use we do keep our own specific dog waste box that gets taken up the local civic amenity site, where they accept non-commercial animal waste. 



RogerS":3fzjazl1 said:


> I stand by my original comment. Don't be lazy. Take it home. Don't litter.


Do you similarly dress down cat owners and horse riders too? Farmers with livestock that get moved around? 
TBH, the more I have to handle it, the greater the chance of anything nasty being spread and the greater the risk to me and anyone else who touches whatever else I may have come into contact with... like the handle of the gate ("Remember, kids: SHUT THAT GATE") you're about to open.


----------

