# It's 'Help an eejit Day' again. 110 'infill' advice please!



## Bm101 (3 Jul 2016)

I say 'infill'.... :roll:  
I got an old stanley 110 in a job lot a while back. I _think_ it's a stanley 110 at least. It was in a bit of a state. While a lot of the other bits went into the rust bucket and got cleaned up for some reason I chucked this one on the desk next to my pc and there it sat for a while. Then one night, some months back, I found I found a well known thread (I won't name it because it doesn't deserve to be dragged down in any sense to be associated with anything I can manage) on here about making a_ proper_ infill plane. About two hours later and full of the naive hope of the beginner, immune to the rough edges of experience I glanced down. My eyes settled on the 110.
The rest is obvious I suppose. 
Yeeeees. I can _hear_ you laughing at the back... 

Onwards and upwards.








After a dip and a clean.











Now, here was my first mistake. I set about undercoating and painting it although I only actually wanted a tiny section above the mouth to be painted eventually. Bear with me. 






Live and learn. :| 

I started cutting the wooden bits. To save time I cut them from a 5" block of mahogany on my top of the range Evolution chop saw. I then spent about a day trying to get the cuts squared off.... Lesson learned, again. You can hide a few mm out of square on a window sill. Not when the wood has to be cut this accurately. So the chop saw was shouted at and demoted and lost all shore leave. That'll teach me for not having more faith in my handsawing abilities. 
Measuring the angle from the mouth to bed the wood in correctly was done by wizardry and jiggerypokery. And a little bit of luck. 






I cut the rear bit off to fit then drilled holes by hand with forstner bits (thankyou Benjamin!), the plan is 1, they will provide stability for the gluing of the handles and 2, i'm _possibly_ planning on laying in a thread and a brass screw of some variety. To hold stuff in place, but also for looks and razzle dazzle. 8) 






Tons more work to do and loads of ways that I might still mess everything up.






So. The real reason for posting.
I had a sudden thought that I need to get the blade now before I do any more work trying to fettle it all up. That way I can work with real error margins. 
I think its a 1 5/8" blade. I was planning on a QS workshop Heaven blade originally. But it seems that's not available. Hock, Clifton and Veritas all do the right dimension blades. But of course they are all super pricey. Any ideas? I'm mostly after an off the shelf solution though perhaps cutting down a thicker wood iron is not out of the question.
Also and more importantly (in fact the whole reason for this post), I want to shape a brass lever cap to wedge under the bar to secure the iron. (I'm nowhere near being able to drill pivot pins etc). Would the lever cap/screw be man enough to hold the iron in place without some form of wedging? Chip breaker? If it's a 3mm blade? I think I might be able to shape the lever cap to act as a chipbreaker. Any ideas?!?


I'd be grateful for any knowledge you can throw this way.

Cheers as always

Chris


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## rxh (3 Jul 2016)

A few questions:
- Do you have a drawing or sketch of what you want the finished plane to look like?
- What metalwork tools and facilities do you have?
- What is the width of the mouth?

A few initial points:
- If the iron is bevel up you will not need a chip breaker.
- A good iron can be made from gauge plate (O1 steel).
- I would aim for mechanical methods of attachment rather than glue.


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## n0legs (3 Jul 2016)

I'm watching with interest.
Good luck


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## Bm101 (4 Jul 2016)

rxh":k40pu32l said:


> A few questions:
> - Do you have a drawing or sketch of what you want the finished plane to look like?
> - What metalwork tools and facilities do you have?
> - What is the width of the mouth?
> ...



Thanks for the reply.
Erm... no plan as such.... I have it fairly squared away in my mind. Does that count?  I want to round off the rear handle to some extent so it's comfortable in the hand. The front knob, I'd like to square off a bit if I can pull the accuracy off. Might need to buy a scraper to finish. 
Metalwork tools, a few files and a clarke belt sander. Drills etc, the usual but that's about it.
The mouth is clean and has the space to open up for a thicker blade.

Good news about the chipbreaker. That means I can use a thicker bit of brass for the cap. Thanks for that. I was getting a little worried about fitting it all in.
I'll have a look at gauge plate. Hadn't thought of that. Ty.
I had thought of using epoxy and screwing through the sides then filing the heads flush. Bearing in mind what you say I'll go with that.

Thanks again.
Chris


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## Bm101 (4 Jul 2016)

n0legs":3cwm44mx said:


> I'm watching with interest.
> Good luck


You're making me nervous mate!


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## gregmcateer (4 Jul 2016)

I wouldn't even attempt to perform something so tek-knee-cull, but your OP made me giggle, so I kept on reading. Please keep posting and don't change the style - if you don't achieve everything you want with this plane, then comedy writing might be just round the corner =D>


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## ED65 (4 Jul 2016)

Bm101":3p9dqzbw said:


> I had a sudden thought that I need to get the blade now before I do any more work trying to fettle it all up. That way I can work with real error margins. I think its a 1 5/8" blade. I was planning on a QS workshop Heaven blade originally. But it seems that's not available. Hock, Clifton and Veritas all do the right dimension blades. But of course they are all super pricey. Any ideas?


I'd get a Faithfull iron. I'm very happy with how my one performs and I have a mate who has two and he has no complaints either.

The 912 is the one to get if you need 1 5/8". It's six quid from Amazon Prime.



Bm101":3p9dqzbw said:


> Also and more importantly (in fact the whole reason for this post), I want to shape a brass lever cap to wedge under the bar to secure the iron. (I'm nowhere near being able to drill pivot pins etc). Would the lever cap/screw be man enough to hold the iron in place without some form of wedging?


I think it's either a wedge or a lever-cap/screw-cap jobbie, not both. If you're after a wedge that makes it easier as you don't need brass.



Bm101":3p9dqzbw said:


> Chip breaker?


Bevel-up planes don't have cap irons. 



Bm101":3p9dqzbw said:


> I'd be grateful for any knowledge you can throw this way.


I presume you're after some great performance, that's the usual goal with doing a wooden infill of any type? I think ideally you should have an adjustable mouth for something like this but regardless, to improve how it works on awkward grain you want a steep bevel, well over the 30° honing angle that is commonly used.


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## Bm101 (4 Jul 2016)

Thanks Ed, I'll take a look at the Faithfull irons.
Appreciated as always. 


Edited after taking a wander down to pick my lad up from school and having a think.

I want to make the brass lever cap, not a wedge. I recently did a bit of working brass to make a drill handle and I really enjoyed it. If I don't need a cap iron, great. Cost goes down! But here's the rub (quite literally in fact). The way I pictured it I could cut a channel in the wedge/handle for the cap screw. This would add lateral stability if a bit of a clunky solution. Not needing a cap iron for a bevel up blade then surely the only thing keeping the iron in place is the dual friction of the brass lever cap, acting as a chip breaker at one end and the screw at the other pinning to the bed.

Bear with me here.  

If that's the case then don't I need an iron with no slot cut out. A solid blade if you like? In fact the last thing I need is a blade with a slot milled out. Am I right? :| Anyone know a good source? 
The back bed is 25 degrees, with a 25 degree blade I should acheive a 50 degree angle, about right for a block plane configured for difficult grain? 

Thanks again!


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## ED65 (4 Jul 2016)

Bm101":1kzgyjet said:


> The way I pictured it I could cut a channel in the wedge/handle for the cap screw. This would add lateral stability if a bit of a clunky solution.


Jamming a wedge of wood into a tapering recess in a block of beech is a bit of a clunky solution to keeping the cutter from moving but it seems to work okay  

A brass cap won't act as a chipbreaker, it'll be set too far back for a start and anyway a chipbreaker mates with the flat of the iron, it's not above the bevel.

You could certainly use a flat piece of tool steel as your iron. I don't think having a slot will cause a problem but if you'd prefer a solid iron go for it. I think the only way you'd be happy with the cost of it would be to make the iron from scratch though, unless you can salvage an unslotted old iron from a car boot find.



Bm101":1kzgyjet said:


> The back bed is 25 degrees, with a 25 degree blade I should acheive a 50 degree angle, about right for a block plane configured for difficult grain?


That's what some sources say. But I'm not convinced the extra 5° is enough to give a big jump in performance. York pitch smoothers commonly had a very tight mouth, and of course that alone can begin to conquer tearout when working difficult grain. For a narrow plane like this I think it's worth going full on and trying a steeper honing bevel (microbevel), as I did on the Stanley block plane I restored recently.


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## Bm101 (4 Jul 2016)

Ha ha, yeh. Ok I get your point. I meant for my purposes not reinventing the woodplane! You know what I meant!  Seems it's a moot point anyway. 
So, like British Rail ...we're getting there. In a disorganised chaotic mismanaged shamble but getting there.
Im a little nervy about cutting steel and then grinding by hand with files at 25-30 degrees accurately but then again, Who Dares Wins Rodders. I'll have a look for an off the shelf solution first though just to save the nerves/back/time. 
Cheers Ed, your input is always appreciated mate.
Regards 
Chris


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## ED65 (5 Jul 2016)

Bm101":13mm2523 said:


> Im a little nervy about cutting steel and then grinding by hand with files at 25-30 degrees accurately but then again, Who Dares Wins Rodders.


The initial cutting to width is what would give me pause, forming the bevel manually not so much. It's a doddle. Dodd-le. It doesn't have to be accurate per se, it just needs to be uniform (relatively) and fairly square since you can tweak it later when you go to actually sharpen. 

You don't need to file it, although in many respects it is the easiest way to shape the edge if you have a suitable file. You can just go to your sharpening stones same as if you were sharpening. Your muscles will have all the right memory to get the angle about right (no need to sweat getting it dead on 25°, a few degrees off doesn't matter) and as the steel won't be hardened yet it'll be the easiest bevel formation you'll have ever done. 

I have a feeling this is all Interesting But Irrelevant though Chris. I just scrolled up to the top of the page to log in and looked at the first photo again. I couldn't help but notice the original iron lying on the table behind the casting (I'm quick that way). A bevel is already formed on it of course. And it's even solid like you would prefer.


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## Bm101 (5 Jul 2016)

Thanks Ed. It's possible I can get the width precut I suppose. I'll have to check later. Cutting square worries me more than the bevel as you say. I have a parkside grinder come to think of it. Take it slow with a bowl of water nearby to keep it cool, could be pretty quick. Files and stones to finish. Eternal optimist. It's half done already lol.
I have the original blade but it's thinner than a supermodel on a bikini diet. I want the extra couple of mm on the blade to justify the rest of the work and time on the plane and hopefully the results it provides. So far this has cost me pennies. Even with the brass and steel I'm hoping it will be just a few quid. No one likes throwing money away but it's becoming a weird personal challenge to keep the costs down on this.


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## ED65 (5 Jul 2016)

Bm101":134dji8s said:


> Thanks Ed. It's possible I can get the width precut I suppose. I'll have to check later. Cutting square worries me more than the bevel as you say.


It's getting the sides parallel that would concern me, square's relatively easy (especially as only one end needs to be square). Just use permanent marker to colour the steel, strike a line, grind to it. 



Bm101":134dji8s said:


> I have a parkside grinder come to think of it. Take it slow with a bowl of water nearby to keep it cool, could be pretty quick.


No dunking needed Chris, if you were making an iron from scratch the major shaping would be done with the iron in an annealed state so it doesn't matter how hot it gets during grinding.



Bm101":134dji8s said:


> I have the original blade but it's thinner than a supermodel on a bikini diet. I want the extra couple of mm on the blade to justify the rest of the work and time on the plane


Okay fair enough but are you willing to pay for a fat iron, just for the look of it? Because a thicker iron might make little difference to the performance, possibly none at all.

Sounds like you wouldn't be happy paying more for a thick iron than everything else combined, multiple times more at worst. I certainly wouldn't be. So if you must have it to be happy with how the plane looks here's a tip you almost never see: epoxy a piece of mild steel to the existing iron to build up the thickness.


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## Bm101 (6 Jul 2016)

Thanks Ed, missed your reply, sorry. I hadn't thought of the steel being annealed re. the grinder. I really am that new to metalwork.  But I have the _internet_ on my side! *blows tiny victory trumpet.

So I stumbled down the rabbit hole again and did some serious research. Re: I looked for some solutions over a couple of pints of Jack Ratt award winning scrumpy.  I'll give you three guesses where I ended up.... No. Not unemployed and in a hedgerow you cynics! Back on UKW. You have to love this site sometimes. 
From rxh's advice I started with 01 gauge plate. Sometime later I'd formulated a plan. Of sorts. I can get 40 mm plate off the shelf or 1 and 5/8" cut to order. Need to email them to ask the price for that but 40 mm it probably is then. Close enough. 

Then I looked up hardening. :shock: 700+ degrees?!? As my breathing got a little panty i thought ....hold on... Uncle Huw! Think about it! Really short, stocky, big beard liked a few beers and a good fight now and then... Metalworking's practically a Family Tradition. Probably. 
So with thanks to Pete Madex (Thanks Pete!) the burny bin and a hairdryer it is. 
Colour check the blade as best I can wack it in oil, wipe, then in the oven for a hour and a half to temper. Probably with a roast chicken to save on the leccy. :roll: 

Job's a good un! 
What could _possibly _ go wrong?


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## ED65 (6 Jul 2016)

:lol: 



Bm101":216z4dg7 said:


> Colour check the blade as best I can wack it in oil, wipe, then in the oven for a hour and a half to temper. Probably with a roast chicken to save on the leccy. :roll:


A man after me own heart! If you quench in motor oil do make sure you do more than wipe off the steel, use WS first then thoroughly wash it before it goes in the oven or you won't enjoy your chicken. 

And anyway you might want to degrease so you can polish up a section to check the tempering colour. 



Bm101":216z4dg7 said:


> What could _possibly _ go wrong?


Actually heat treating is pretty much as simple as it sounds for basic stuff and if you follow directions closely you can get it right first time. For small pieces and thin sections one blowtorch and a couple of nested tin cans is enough to reach the right temperature range, even with butane.

On the off chance you don't get the steel hot enough before quenching the first time you can usually try again at least once and possibly multiple times without the steel becoming too decarburised.


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## Bm101 (6 Jul 2016)

Thanks Ed. I really appreciate the time you've taken to help out.


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## rxh (6 Jul 2016)

A barbecue is good for heat treating irons. Dusk is a good time so the red heat shows up. When it is hot enough a magnet will no longer stick to the iron (thanks to Racers for that useful tip). I quench in used cooking oil as it doesn't make a filthy smell like engine oil. Holding the iron vertically when lowering into the oil is said to reduce the risk of distortion. The oil may well go on fire but you can easily put it out with a metal lid. Wearing suitable PPE is obviously a good idea. The iron will come out blackened and it is best to clean it up with abrasive paper before tempering in a domestic oven.


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## rxh (6 Jul 2016)

O1 steel can be cut by hacksaw and filed in the annealed state (as delivered). Scribe a line on each side at the desired width, saw outside the line, then file down to the line, finish by draw-filing.


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## rxh (6 Jul 2016)

The paper wrapping of the gauge plate (O1 steel) has tempering instructions:


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## Bm101 (7 Jul 2016)

Brilliant tips rxh. Many thanks! I'll order the steel today. I'm looking forward to trying this now I have to admit.


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## ED65 (7 Jul 2016)

Okay here's another tip for you since you're going ahead with making your own. Your oven probably doesn't hold temperature very well, most don't including high-end models. So put a roasting dish full of dry sand in the oven when you're heating it up, this acts as a heat sink and helps to smooth out the ups and downs of the oven's thermostat (assuming electric here). Ideally this would be coupled with using an oven thermometer because you'd scarcely believe how far off the dial setting can be from what temperature the oven itself is actually heating to, reportedly as much as 40°C. 

Another option: does the missus have one of those thermometers that clip on the side of a saucepan? A possibly much more accurate way of annealing to get a specific hardness is to use a pan of hot oil, particularly if you have a gas cooker.

In either case my advice would be to be conservative, as if the iron ends up too hard for your liking you can simply re-anneal. You can do this any number of times without penalty. 

Best of luck!


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## Bm101 (26 Jul 2016)

Sooooo. A little update on progress.
Well tbh it's going _surprisingly_ well so far. Time is like golddust and magic beans in my life. There's never enough of it spare. But I got a whole day on it over the weekend. Aw Yisss. 8) I'm like Karl Holtey on Dexedrine. That includes the shakes, delusions and paranoia mind you without the skill, talent or knowledge.  

So. It's been a learning curve. 









And what have we learnt? Tru oil. I've seen it mentioned many times. 'It's amazing! Yaaaay!' So I bit the bullet. Bought the filler and the finish. But it _is_ amazing. It's wonderful stuff. It's Charlie and the chocolate factory stuff. On went a few coats of filler. The mahogany is a bit gappy. I followed the instructions even. On went the coats of sealer. 8 odd coats in all and wire wool inbetween. Final coat, beautiful day, left it on the patio table, went for a cider came out to see my 2 year old drawing smiley faces in the gloss finish. *sigh, fetches wire wool. :| 
The steel turned up and that was cut. Tidied up on the Clarkey for which I have bought some new belts. Then I faced the grind with no jigs or help from God. The dilemma: wack it on the lidles grinding wheel or the Clarkey? Both could chew it up like Jabba the Hutt facing a roast chicken. 
Easy choice. The everloved Clarkey it is!
Aiming for a 25 odd degree angle I swung my hips like a South American Salsa King. Didn't take long and there you go, you got the hang of it. Gotta be in it to win it.
Changed the belt up to Ninja and polished all the edges and so on.

So. Still have to heat treat the blade. No worries.  Mwahahahhahah. :shock: 
Bought a lump of brass on ebay for £20 quid last night. Fingers working faster than the brain. 8.75'' x 4'' x 5/8'' Should do for a few lever caps! 
Incidentally the brass screw and gubbins come gratis from a building site. Might be possible to epoxy them....

 






Then, just as it was getting easy I started looking into acid etching.... :|
Oh yeh. Files. 3 new ones from WH. The Narex ones cos I need to feed my kids. Revelation!


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## Bm101 (10 Oct 2016)

July? Really? Dear God. I don't get a lot of time to mess stuff up for a hobby but I can't quite believe it was July I made my last post on this. In real life lots of stuff has been done on the house and working 6/7 day weeks, blah blah blah but when I've had a minute I've been putting in a little time on this when I can.
So. Where were we? 

 

Ah yeh. Heat treating the blade. So I got all the stuff in, charcoal, a bit of oil for quenching. Then one night when the family was out and I was only a risk to myself and the neighbours I lit the fire pit, got the Mrs' hairdryer drank a load of cider and went at it viking style. Graaaaah!






I pulled out the steel and dipped it in my warm oil like an Italian Lover.

Job done. Scratch tested the blade. All good. But now I needed to temper the blade. I used ED65's genius and put a sand heatsink in the oven. This (by my guess by colour change in the steel), raised the oven to 370 odd degrees from its 250 max. I'd achieved blue steel! Woot. Tempered! 

All pleased with myself I took a photo or two to show how clever I was.






Then I dropped it on the patio and chipped the corner off. 
Really. #-o 

One question I have is that one small the back of the blade went like this... it's since been ground out but I'd love some enlightenment on this one for the sake of knowledge.






It was the only part of the blade to react like this. Anyhooo.

That's when I started looking into acid etching...





















Meh.
More tomorrow, I'm tired. Drove to Southampton today, tomorrow the wonders of Ipswich await. (*Bated breath)
Tune in tomorrow to see how I got ripped off buying acid etch pens on ebay that turned out to be sanded down (really) Stadlater permanent markers for a fiver a pop. How I learnt to use a file card and Mary Berry Berry pops in to talk about 0000 wire wool.


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## Bm101 (10 Oct 2016)

Extra points if you can work out which dinosaur that dog is. :roll:


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## n0legs (10 Oct 2016)

My apologies, my apologies. Can't believe I missed the July update, I would have commented then  
I did catch the lever cap on the other thread, niiiiiiiccccceeeee :wink: 
Well who'd have thunk a lowly old 110 can turn out like that =D> 
Freaking love it, home heat treating for the mutha furrking win bro :lol: 
My my, we have you on a slippery slope now. Back street mechanicing, you need this in your life 8) 


The dog??? 
English Bull Terrier?


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (11 Oct 2016)

Bm101":2apadzyw said:


>



A couple of points ...

You will need to shorten the rear infill, otherwise you cannot adjust the blade with a hammer (the blade is too short).

Here is a #3 Stanley where you can see the blade extends over the rear infill ..






The other point is that I cannot advise a wedge under a steel crossbar. What will gradually occur is that the bar will dent the wedge, and this will interfere with future adjustments.

If you look at Krenov crossbars, you will see that they have a flat section (that rides against the wedge) ...











The steel crossbar in the #110 is too narrow on which to file a flat. The thought I have is to inset a similar steel plate (cut up a scraper) to the top of a wooden wedge. That will prevent denting but still have some elasticity for wedging.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bm101 (11 Oct 2016)

n0legs":3nxk51nl said:


> The dog???
> English Bull Terrier?



Ha Ha! Yes! You did better than my Mrs. She looked at it like it was a Rorsach test. Even had it upside down at one point. :| 
The quality is terrible tbh. The copper sulphate mix leached under the 'acid etch pens' i got off some snide on ebay. I put them to one side and didn't look to closely when they arrived. Do you ever notice something like 'these pens look like they've been sanded, that's odd' and then one of the kids falls down the stairs or drowns in a pond and you forget? This was one of those times. Turn's out on closer inspection they are just normal marker pens. I need to find a better ground ( the bit that stops the solution working on the metal). Good fun though and quite a fascinating thing to try out. I'll definitely get back to it at some point. But not just yet on this blade.
Cheap too. A couple of quid will get you set up with enough to get going off ebay and put your internet history on the NSA watchlist for 5 years.
Theres some good reading here http://www.nontoxicprint.com/thenewetchingchemistry.htm (With thanks again to Oakmitre who actually _knows what he's doing_).


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## Bm101 (11 Oct 2016)

Derek, many thanks for replying. It's kind of you to take the time even if there's now a photo of one of your planes directly under a photo of my first attempt eternally stored on the internet. So thanks for that.  
I read your post this morning sitting in my van and tbh my heart sank. There's a young Columbian lad who got the brunt of my mood about 10 minutes later. (Ooops)
But I got home and looked again and can you corrrect me if I'm wrong but are you talking about putting in a wooden wedge? I haven't really mentioned it I think on this thread so far because it's all a bit a*** about face time wise but I'm putting in a brass cap. I'm hoping this won't create the same issues. :| 
Thanks again for the reply. Much appreciated.
Cheers 
Chris


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## Bm101 (11 Oct 2016)

Right, started so we might as well crack on. Lets wizz through. 
Just quickly, the old blade size verus the new.





The brass turned up. Bit lumpy. May have over ordered_ a little_ but for £20 I'm set for a lever caps. For ever. 






Feet planted. Out of breath. Quick have a cider and a fag or two and we're back at it.






Some time later and cursing every beggar in the world with machinery and my lack of gym membership, we find ourselves here.






What have we learnt? Buy a file card and some new files. :?
Also. If you file enough brass you start storing up gold dust. Just saying. Don't buy any gold dust off ebay in the next 4 weeks.

Thats it for tonight. This wip stuff is hard work.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (12 Oct 2016)

Bm101":3dj1xbkm said:


> Derek, many thanks for replying. It's kind of you to take the time even if there's now a photo of one of your planes directly under a photo of my first attempt eternally stored on the internet. So thanks for that.
> I read your post this morning sitting in my van and tbh my heart sank. There's a young Columbian lad who got the brunt of my mood about 10 minutes later. (Ooops)
> But I got home and looked again and can you corrrect me if I'm wrong but are you talking about putting in a wooden wedge? I haven't really mentioned it I think on this thread so far because it's all a bit a*** about face time wise but I'm putting in a brass cap. I'm hoping this won't create the same issues. :|
> Thanks again for the reply. Much appreciated.
> ...



Hi Chris

Yes, a brass lever cap would be ideal. I just wanted to warn you against a wooden wedge with the thin cross rod.

However, the rear infill still needs to be shorter than the blade projection otherwise you will not be able to adjust it forward or laterally with a hammer.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bm101 (12 Oct 2016)

Thanks again Derek. 
That's put my mind at rest. If you wouldn't mind sparing a little more of your time could you take the time to explain something to me? 
I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?
I thought you only needed a hammer to adjust a wooden plane type build where the iron was set with a wedge type arrangement. I'm not sure why I can't just adjust the blade by eye/feel using the cap lever much as I would with a bailey type frog but by hand and without all the benefits of a lateral adjuster etc. If i'm missing a trick (and it wouldn't be the first time) would you mind explaining why because I can't see what I'm missing. In my mind I undo the screw, get the blade set and then do up the screw while making sure the tightening doesn't skew the blade out. I just can't see where tapping with a hammer would help?

Thanks for the response, it's much appreciated as always.  

Here's a pic that might explain what I mean but I can't help feeling I'm missing a trick.







Cheers
Chris


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## Mr_P (12 Oct 2016)

All depends on the user and the plane. I use both methods but it depends on the plane.

I bought a super cheap 110 with the wrong iron and a wooden wedge just for the iron thinjking it would be good for one of my chariots. It was so darn good it has stayed in the 110, the iron is super long but I've never felt the need to adjust with anything other than my hands. You won't have any problems with yours, especially as you have a screw down lever cap. In hindsight longer would have been better, easier to adjust and last longer but hey hum no worries.

Great work btw, very impressive for a first timer.


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## Bm101 (13 Oct 2016)

Thanks Mr P. That clears it up for me and it's a relief to know. I felt the length of the blade was a fair trade off with comfort in the hand really. I have some more steel and was thinking to make a spare blade at some point ground at a different angle. I'll leave it a bit longer to compare. Thanks again.


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## AndyT (13 Oct 2016)

Gosh, that looks good!
And an especially impressive bit of hacksaw and file work on the lever cap. Give yourself a big pat on the back, Chris, if you still have the strength in your arms!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (13 Oct 2016)

> I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?



Hi Chris

Simply put, you will achieve greater precision from a tap of a hammer - laterally or to advance or withdraw the blade - than using your fingers. The type of hammer I use weighs 7 oz. 

How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers? 

I can advance a blade using a hammer as I push the plane forward. You cannot do that with fingers.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bm101 (13 Oct 2016)

AndyT":11r4onz2 said:


> Gosh, that looks good!
> And an especially impressive bit of hacksaw and file work on the lever cap. Give yourself a big pat on the back, Chris, if you still have the strength in your arms!


Thanks Andy. That means a lot to me coming from you after all the help and knowledge you have shared with me so willingly. My first post on UKW was about how to seat a blade in a Record 4 1/2. It wasn't till a while later that I realised I had the blade upside down.  8th of September last year. (I just checked btw I'm not _that_ sad). So the learning curve is steep but it's not insurmountable. First plane to making one (of sorts) in a year. Mind you I haven't finished the everlasting Roubo bench that I started building to build the oak porch.... This weekend is clear out the shed and reorganise defences. It's time to get on track again. At the moment I can feel Custard in the background Tsking! at me for getting sidelined.  Time to get organised!
Btw Andy, I puzzled over cutting the initial groove for the bar. Didn't want to use the hacksaw and have it skipping, looked at all sorts of solutions like cramps and so on but I couldn't get round it. No space. Then I remembered some fella posting about a bit of eclipse kit. I looked online and found one for about two quid. Bit the sellers hand off lol. Thanks again. Job done as they say. :wink:


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## Bm101 (13 Oct 2016)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks again Derek for your patience.
I'm not at a stage of expertise where I would even be aware of adjusting the blade mid cut although I can see the sense in it in theory and it's given me summat to think about. Thanks again for your response, as always it's insightful, experienced and reasoned. I'll start work on a longer blade when I get a little time. Just goes to show I suppose the level of experience. To make a thing is one thing. To make it to do the best job requires more experience than I can muster at the moment.


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## AndyT (13 Oct 2016)

Ah, the 4S - a great bit of kit and it sounds like you got one at a very good price!


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## Mr_P (13 Oct 2016)

Woodworking isn't a one size fits all hobby. What works for you might not work for me. 

If I had my Fathers tough hands I might use David Barrons approach to adjusting an iron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEFINBfhb4

Maybe my hands will toughen up before my eye sight fails any further, don't you just love middle age.


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## Mr_P (13 Oct 2016)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> > I can't understand why I need to use a hammer to adjust the blade?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ermm I don't have three hands and even if I was using a plane single handed I would NEVER adjust a plane iron with the screw tight on one of my infills. On a stanley bailey type yes but not one with a lever cap and scrrew nope not ever.

Edit:

*How do you withdraw the blade just a tad with fingers?*

I've no idea how it would be done with a hammer, lateral adjustment and deeper yes but not withdrawal. I can do it with woodies but that involves hitting the body.

Another Edit

Raney Nelson , Daed Toolworks


> On the bench planes I back out and start over



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-3zk2nnNaA

On the wedged mitres 90% of the time he uses the sneck but shock horror he might use the strike button. None of mine are new and most are antique so I would never hit metal bodies. He also uses the DB method eek but doesn't cut his fingers MUCH.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Oct 2016)

I adjust plane irons - woodies and infills - with a small hammer. 

I first set plane irons with the use of a flat surface. Terry Gordon (of HNT Gordon) generally supplies a block of planed wood to rest the plane upon. My preference, which I have used for many years, is a block of wood to which is glued a sheet of glass ...







The advantage of glass over wood is that the glass remains flat and has no give. It will not damage a steel edge. 

What we want here is to place the plane on the glass and lower the iron through the mouth to rest on the glass. Then secure (not tighten) the wedge or lever cap. 

This may be as much as you need to do. The blade should be square to the sole if you have pushed it through the mouth until it registered with the glass.. It should also have minimal projection – perhaps enough for the finest of shavings. It is much easier to tap the blade/rap the toe or the back of the blade for increased projection than raise the blade if there is too much projection. With a woodie, the reason is simply because raising the blade also loosens the wedge. And this increases the probability of losing blade squareness. 

I use my fingers to feel the projection of the iron through the mouth - whether it is even, too much or too little. A hammer is used to adjust the lateral setting, by tapping on the side of the blade. If there is too much projection, one has the choice of starting again, or using the hammer on the rear of the body. I never strike the infill of an infill plane. I strike the steel rear of the sole. 

The hammer I currently use is brass on one side and hard nylon on the other. The nylon does not damage a wooden wedge, and the brass does not damage steel. You need brass to adjust an infill.






Have a look at the video of Raney's hammer - mine is similar with the exception that I use nylon where he uses raw hide. Otherwise he also uses a setting board - you may not catch this unless you are looking for it as he does it quickly. He also uses his fingers to feel the projection. 

I do not like what I saw in David Barron's video - it was all vague and lacked precision. Witness that he had to reset the plane. The shavings were coarse, and he was planing off-centre.

All this reinforces the need for the blade to be in a position to be struck. Some infills use a snecked blade to strike to pull it back, but all leave enough room to strike the blade laterally without the infill getting in the way. Hitting the rear of the blade is the best way of moving the blade forward - just a light tap with a reduced setting on the lever cap screw.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Mr_P (14 Oct 2016)

Edit: Comment deleted, A bit harsh and ott, apologies.

Apologies to Chris, i could go on but won't hijack the thread.

Great work, keep it up.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (14 Oct 2016)

Response to Mr P deleted. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Bm101 (14 Oct 2016)

As a beginner it's great to get different opinions on my idiocy. It's all a learning curve and for me its great to hear different approaches to the same problem. I thank you both for sharing your knowledge and experience with me. I am much obliged to both of you.
So. Onwards and upwards as always. (hammer) 
So today's efforts. The brass screws turned up which interrupted my intention of paraphrasing the old joke about the little girl and the builders and the punchline 'we will if the [email protected] bricks ever turn up'. 3.5 mm screws finally arrived so I just spent a while sorting out the body. More polishing and rubbing down. If there's a word for the top of the sides of the body I have no idea what it is but they are now equi summat.
Cut a bit of cardboard out as a template for the holes. 
(Karl Holtey et al, I see you at the back taking notes. Caaaarddddboarddd teeemplaaaatesss... Stop nicking my techniques. Jeeeesus. :roll: )
Went ok. I'm not sure how I get away with it sometimes to tell the truth. 
Drilled the holes and they are all miraculously in the right place.
For the counterbore do you just judge it to the the same depth? :| I'm thinking counting one two in my head being very careful.






Need to retouch up the paint so that's drying time for next week but we're on track. Final stages!


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## Billy Flitch (14 Oct 2016)

A method for setting the plane Iron, first find a flat and clear space on the bench (no mean feat in itself).
Cut a piece of paper in half place one half under the sole of the casting infront of the mouth and the other half under the sole of the casting after the mouth.
Check that the plane iron is sitting square at thecutting edge press down on the casting and fasten the cap iron or wedge in place. If you find that the plane iron is to rank and full try using a tissue under the sole. Billy.


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## Bm101 (15 Oct 2016)

Cheers Billy.


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## Bm101 (5 Nov 2016)

So. Time for an update.  
Where were we? Ah yeh.
So a few progress pics. It's been a long week as always but it's been a good week. The rains of September passed us by and we're now into November and the cold is making up for time. Some unexpected time off work led to a break in routine and allowed an hour or two in the shed. Happy Days, so let's crack on.






Fixed the screws in place. Chucked it on the clarkey to get rid of most of the waste. Lots of masking tape ensued after I dinged the body the first time hand filing the heads down and the whole population of the 100 acre wood died of shock at my language. Except Eeyore who was expecting failure the whole time. Piglet exploded right around 3.42 pm

I'd forgotten I need to smooth the lever screw off. Tried it by hand but as always I couldn't get it smooth enough so i mad the most basic of 'jigs'. 
A hole in an offcut. Is that a jig?Really? Either way it worked well enough to get away with it. (Again.  )





(+1 for Action shot! Next stop YouTube Channel ) Accurate enough to sand off the screw head too a little less than barbaric.






Next up, I filed off the screw heads, thank you Vallorbe. Nervy moments. Thank you masking tape.
Then an earth shattering blow. One of the heads must have been a touch off centre. In real life you can hardly notice it unless you made it in which case _Moses could have led his people through a smaller gap. And you are fated to see it forever more._ Balls.






Still. We'll take the rest of the photos from the other side and hope no one notices... :| 
















Does it work? No idea. I'm not mad enough to try gluing it up, putting it together and actually using it in one day. I'll give it a pop tomorrow. :wink:

Oh, and just for memories sake, the original. (hammer)


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## n0legs (6 Nov 2016)

Excellent Chris, looks great =D> 

One thing----
_Then an earth shattering blow. One of the heads must have been a touch off centre. In real life you can hardly notice it unless you made it in which case Moses could have led his people through a smaller gap. And you are fated to see it forever more. Balls. _

Chill bro', just chill. 
There's many a multi million pound manufacturer, with QC depts. who send out far far worse and expect people to pay for their mistakes.
You're a guy in his shed :wink: 
And I think you've done brilliant


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## Karl (6 Nov 2016)

Very good - looks great.

Cheers

Karl


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## Bm101 (6 Nov 2016)

Tried it out today and lo and behold it works really well. (Woop + consecutive sigh of relief!)  
It's fairly weighty in the hand. 1.1 lb. I had to adjust my grip a little to get the feel of the handle but it was pretty comfy in use.
Some unknown bit of wood, beech _maybe_? (Given to me a kind member of UKW) No real challenge and it finished nicely.






Obligatory shavings shot.  






Then some ash. A _little_ more of a challenge on the grain but it's hardly some tropical hardwood now. Still, no problems. 











Finally a bit of mahogany, the same bit as the handles. I struggled with this starting the plane and moved on to a scraper to finish it.











No end grain attempted because my vice is in casualty and having an illicit affair with the workmate. (Don't ask.  )

All told, I'm pretty pleased. It's been an interesting project for me and I've learnt a _lot_ about various stuff from using taps and dies to burnishing scrapers for the first time. And I'm on the way to nailing my filing technique. On the way... lol. It's been fun. I've had a brush with hardening and tempering steel in a cider driven night time bbq furnace frenzy that would have had the HSE whimpering quietly in their sleep. And it was brilliant. Great craic. I have enough steel left over to make a couple more blades so I'll do that and grind a couple of steeper angles on them. Job's a good un. Thanks all who offered their help and advice to an eejit like me once again. It's always welcomed and a great advantage. So Cheers.

Anyway that's enough of that. My plane making days are done. 
Or they_ would_ be...
But I was working in Bristol for 3 days last week. I googled Bristol Designs, thinking that it's bound to be miles away, I'll never get a chance to pop in there just isn't a hope.
Whaddaya know. It was about 200 yards up the road. :| 






Oopsie Daisy. 

(hammer)


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2016)

What a brilliant result, you should be feeling very pleased with that. A good looking, useful tool from a very unpromising start.

And now you are whizzing down the plane making slope - your ropes and safety gear will be powerless to stop you!


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## Bm101 (6 Nov 2016)

Thanks Guys, it means a lot to a noob like me especially when I've seen some of the stuff you lot have turned out. The smoother and the bullnose are going on the shelf for a while. A good while possibly. I have more necessary things to do in the near future. In all honesty if they were still in production I'd have waited. Possibly. But since it seems they are becoming harder and harder to get hold of it seemed a good plan. So little time so much to do. :wink:


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## rxh (6 Nov 2016)

Very well done - I have enjoyed following this thread. I look forward to seeing the next planes as they develop.


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## DTR (7 Nov 2016)

Beautiful! (And effective too)


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