# Securing your workshop



## martinlt1000

Well, after building my workshop over the past few months and sorting out all my tools (with a french cleat system), it seems I turned it into a veritable palace for some thieving b******s who broke in last night. Seven power tools were taken and I'm now looking at beefing up the security (was a single padlock on hasp) and keen to take any advice to prevent this happening again when I replace the tools.

So far this morning I've ordered an alarm and an extra door defender to block the double doors to the front.

Any tips/ideas welcome - I'm contemplating leaving my german shepherd in there overnight tonight in case they decide to return for more of my tools.


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## DBT85

Sorry to hear that. Utter scum.

Some kind of camera that's visible, a light that illuminates the doors on a PIR, noisy as hell alarm, locks that can't just be cut through with a silent tool like bolt cutters.


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## TheUnicorn

sorry to here about your break in, soul destroying.

a friend had a break into his garage, and then a repeat incident a few months later, once all the tools had been replaced.

He now has a heavy metal bar gate / door that goes over the existing door, and has a security hasp setup wherein the padlock is covered by a metal shield on all sides apart from the bottom, so near impossible to attack it with a grinder or bolt cutters

worth considering a camera setup, and clearing any lines of sight so any potential intruders are more likely to be seen


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## Spectric

Padlock on hasp is vunerable. With security start furthest from your workshop and put yourself in the thieving b******s shoes. How easy was it for them to gain entry to the property, was it nice and dark so they could sneak in? PIR Lighting is always a good start, if an unwanted enters then they really do not want to be illuminated and suddenly be in full view. Layers of security work better than relying on just one, so a more secure sidegate for example to make access to your workshop harder. Cameras can be good and always use in pairs, so one covers the other. This way they see one and as they try to avoid it catching them they get seen by the other one. Alarms can be good but not wireless, and anything that can be triggered to cause a noise will deter the thieving b******s .

With double doors you need secure bolts on one on the inside both top and bottom and don't overlook the hinges, can be a weak point and become a hinge. When I last secured a pair of double doors I had a steel post at each corner that was concreted into the ground and heavy steel bars that could be locked in place that went right across both doors so no way they could be opened. Also the hinges were fabricated with 25mm steel pins. 

Now last line of defence is to sign up to someone like Smartwater, Divisions - The SmartWater Group and use their liquid on all your tools and once dried it is invisable. Put it into ribs and hard to reach spots and it will never come off but is traceable back to yourself, part of this package is signage that needs to be displayed in various locations to warn potential thieving b******s that anygoods taken are traceable and so become high risk to handle and many police forces check stolen goods with UV to see if they are marked, just like lead on church roofs and scrapyards now also check metals received as do the police during raids.


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## Jameshow

Sorry to hear it.

How about a big dog?

CCTV?

PIR lighting.

Gates on drive?

Cheers James


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## martinlt1000

Thanks for the advice folks. PIR lighting and camera - on the case, going to get that sorted asap. Unfortunately hard to secure access - they came in over my wall from a neighbours property and I'm limited in options. Nice idea on marking all the tools - I'll look into that as well. I'm tempted to fit a steel bar across both doors and fixed through the walls of the shed - will make it all damn ugly though.

Gutted gutted gutted. 

I have a big dog - german shepherd - but he sleeps in the house, I am tempted to let him kip up in the workshop for a few nights until I improve the security.


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## DBT85

martinlt1000 said:


> over my wall from a neighbours property and I'm limited in options


Spiky walls seem appropriate. Barbs. Poisoned tips.


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## Rorschach

Really sorry to hear it. The ironic thing is that you are now much less likely to be hit again as in most areas there is only 1 burglar who targets the area and they know that you will improve security so they won't bother again.


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## martinlt1000

Rorschach said:


> Really sorry to hear it. The ironic thing is that you are now much less likely to be hit again as in most areas there is only 1 burglar who targets the area and they know that you will improve security so they won't bother again.


Not sure about that - my neighbour kindly informed me that this is the second time they've been hit now. Whilst I want to wait to improve security before replacing the tools, I need the tools to improve the security :-( chicken and egg!


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## Tris

If it's your wall take a look at prikka strips, makes the top less appealing as a point of entry. 

Anything that makes your shed a bit harder to get into than the one in the next street helps. 

Worth putting a camera at low level, get a decent angle up under the hoodie they will have pulled halfway down their faces


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## Rorschach

martinlt1000 said:


> Not sure about that - my neighbour kindly informed me that this is the second time they've been hit now. Whilst I want to wait to improve security before replacing the tools, I need the tools to improve the security :-( chicken and egg!



Did they do any upgrades in between though? Most people do something like add lights/CCTV as soon as they have been burgled and that's all the deterrent needed. If you don't do anything visible then you are usually hit again within 2 months (I think that was the time frame) because the burglar knows the insurance will have paid out by then and there will be new things to nick.


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## TheUnicorn

Rorschach said:


> Did they do any upgrades in between though? Most people do something like add lights/CCTV as soon as they have been burgled and that's all the deterrent needed. If you don't do anything visible then you are usually hit again within 2 months (I think that was the time frame) because the burglar knows the insurance will have paid out by then and there will be new things to nick.


couldn't have put it better myself


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## martinlt1000

Rorschach said:


> Did they do any upgrades in between though? Most people do something like add lights/CCTV as soon as they have been burgled and that's all the deterrent needed. If you don't do anything visible then you are usually hit again within 2 months (I think that was the time frame) because the burglar knows the insurance will have paid out by then and there will be new things to nick.


Good point, from what I can tell they resigned themselves to the shed being insecure and moved anything expensive elsewhere (in their house I presume). Security looked pretty dung and from the proximity of their shed to my workshop I'm guessing theirs was first then with nothing in there of value they turned their attention to mine. Thieving scum.


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## jcassidy

Sorry to hear about your tools. Scumsuckers will probably have them up on online sites tomorrow... Unfortunately I think the likelihood of a second robbery are higher now as they know you have a workshop and tools, and they know how to get in and out. 

Cameras are not a deterrant control, they are a detective control, and quite honestly, bringing some grainey B&W footage of a lad in a mask to the Police and saying "this is the guy that stole my tools' is not going to get you far, and the thieves know this.

I would put my money towards lighting, visible security like big f**k-off bars, anchored well, big locks, and a loud alarm. You may consider look at some 'crime prevention through environmental design' ideas like aforementioned lighting, planting some thorny bushes along your borders, making the fence higher or topping it with anti-intrusion measures.

If you are away from the property for any length of time, such as vacation, bring your tools into the house.

Applying those markers liquids is also an excellent deterrant, as Spectric said. Depends on how valuable your tools are.
Just some ideas!


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## pe2dave

Spectric said:


> Alarms can be good but not wireless,



An odd statement surely? Why not wireless please?


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## Spectric

Wireless can be jammed or interfered with. All manufacturers have to declare what frequency their equipment uses and if you transmit at that frequency with more power it can be jamed. Used to be an issue for automotive security until they used rolling codes so anyone snatching a code it was of no use, unfortunately now they break into the house to steal the keys or steal the key code from the key. 

You cannot beat hardwired, done properly it is not known for false triggering and in my opinion gives peace of mind. Like so much these days people opt for wireless because it is easy, no real installation or running cables and the like but easy fit easy to beat.


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## pe2dave

I'm not convinced many tea leaves would go to that trouble for a workshop / shed / garage.


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## Spectric

These devices are not hard to come by because they know where to obtain and tools, garden machinery and bikes are good sellers within their community. The best people to ask for good security advice are the scumbags who are now straight, there was a program on Tv where a previous crook iscussed various aspects of peoples property, which would be targets and the ones to avoid, almost like a science to them.


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## jcassidy

Most modern wireless alarms come with cycling frequencies and jamming detection, which will trigger the alarm. Mine does, for example.

That said, I don't see the need if the workshop has power. Wiring up a workshop, you can leave the wires exposed, just nailed the wall. Can't do that in a 2 storey house! 

Advantage of a wireless system.would be in getting messages that the alarm is going off. F**k all use if you're away from home, unless you have a neighbour who can come check for you. Unlikely at 2am, right?


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## shed9

martinlt1000 said:


> I have a big dog - german shepherd - but he sleeps in the house, I am tempted to let him kip up in the workshop for a few nights until I improve the security.


Given the current situation in Wales with pet theft they will likely take the dog as well as the tools.


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## KT -andy

DBT85 said:


> Spiky walls seem appropriate. Barbs. Poisoned tips.


Carpet gripper on top of the wall . Smeared with excrement - nothing like a good infection for the thieving scum 
What are you going to do when the alarm goes off ? 
Run out side and get stabbed .


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## MarkAW

Sorry to hear that Martin. Hopefully you're covered with insurance?
I agree on the comments about CCTV. I have CCTV and pir floodlight on my drive, yet a few nights we've had some delinquents try car door handles all along the street including mine. Mask and hoody, so you can't make out many identifying features. Even coming back more than 1 night in a row!

It's really just making access a little harder time consuming and more visible. Overall reducing the appeal.

I have plans to hook up a smoke grenade (the sort you find at paintballing) to my workshop alarm, then the place would fill with smoke so they can't see what they're stealing! That would surprise and disorientate the pippers.


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## Stanleymonkey

Sorry to hear this - apart from the tools - it's a horrible feeling to have that someone has been in your garden.

I know the focus is on your tools - but please consider the house as well. They are likely to wander down and try the windows and door handles if they think you are out / working late.

If possible can you raise the height of the fence / wall between you and your neighbour? Add trellis panels to the top? He has to understand after two break ins.

There are some good battery operated PIR lights now.

Underfloor security bars - not sure if they have been mentioned. Chain things down to a steel pole that spans several joist under the floor - better for bikes and mowers etc.

Buy some old cabinets from a clearance shop - lock your tools away in those so they have a second thing to break into should they make it inside. 

Shutter the windows if you haven't already.


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## Keith 66

Anti climb paint is good on top of walls & anywhere that could get climbed. I had a workshop a few years ago that was very remote & slapped the stuff on all over the place. Its thick black tarry stuff that magically transfers itself to everything. A week after i applied it i came in one morning to find two great hand prints dragged down the wall, you could almost still hear them going "Argh ffs" as they tried to wipe it off!


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## TFrench

I had a lucky escape recently - the kid next door (who is a right little scrote - I've tamed him by fixing his bike!) was out having a fag late at night and heard noises in my garden at my garage door, called out and heard someone run and jump over my fence. I'd always known the back door was the weak point on the workshop and was going to get around to sorting it at some point. It leapfrogged everything to the top of the list and as of last weekend I have a steel multipoint lock door. You can never make it perfect, but you can make it very difficult for them.


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## niemeyjt

A noise bomb inside the shop connected to an alarm will also reduce time spent in there - as well as alerting neighbours


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## danst96

Generally speaking, CCTV is a waste of money, thieves pay very little attention to it. In fact I read an interview of a bike thief who said he targeted areas that had CCTV because it means people let down their guard in other ways. I'd spend the money on a decent lock system, bracing and barring any area that could be entered in and certainly add lots of lighting. Maybe look into if there is a way of If one PIR is triggered it triggers all your lights and it turns your place into fort Knox. 1 it's going to scare the dung out of the thief and 2 potentially will help wake you up. You can adjust PIR sensitivity so it's not triggered by small animals and birds.


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## DBT85

Cameras in addition everything else, however, do add to the deterrent and might give you a chance of identifying the little dung. They also give you the opportunity to set alerts up so that maybe you catch someone doing a recce. 

A camera alone is indeed not much use.


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## martinlt1000

Stanleymonkey said:


> If possible can you raise the height of the fence / wall between you and your neighbour? Add trellis panels to the top? He has to understand after two break ins.


The problem with the wall height is that my land is about 1.5m lower than my neighbours. Which means the wall would be about 4m high in some sections and block loads of light coming into our garden.


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## HappyHacker

Sorry to hear about the break in. 

I have marked most of my portable tools with my post code engraved in large letters into the plastic and metal parts and any batteries using a dremal type tool. Makes them less valuable to the scroats and easy to identify if found.

This is in addition to large locks on the doors with reinforcement of the lock positions on the up and over doors. Nothing will stop them they want to get in but making it more difficult and time consuming does put them off. Lots of good ideas above, I draw the line at exposed live wires though, they would probably get me. 

There was a program on the telly some years ago where a reformed burglar broke into houses, with the owners permission, while being filmed for the TV. In one house apart from taking all the valuables he broke into the garage found a nice convertible car, found the keys, put the car top down, loaded all the valuable stuff into the car put the pet dog into the car and drove off! Even though the house owners had given permission, most were very upset to see the mess and how easy it was. 

My final line of defence is that my workshop is such a tip that they will have to spend some time trying to find the tools, as I usually do, and if not very careful they will trip over one of the piles off stuff on the floor  

I do wonder why we have to go to such lengths to protect our property from the low life scum that make their living messing up other people lives.


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## Chippysu

martinlt1000 said:


> Well, after building my workshop over the past few months and sorting out all my tools (with a french cleat system), it seems I turned it into a veritable palace for some thieving b******s who broke in last night. Seven power tools were taken and I'm now looking at beefing up the security (was a single padlock on hasp) and keen to take any advice to prevent this happening again when I replace the tools.
> 
> So far this morning I've ordered an alarm and an extra door defender to block the double doors to the front.
> 
> Any tips/ideas welcome - I'm contemplating leaving my german shepherd in there overnight tonight in case they decide to return for more of my tools.


There's so much scum out there, really feel for you. I have Hubble cameras that work from Internet, so even when I'm on holiday, (you remember those days!) I can just check in on things. They alert me on my phone noise, movement. The sensitivity can be set so you don't get the bloomin spider that kept telling me he was spinning his web alert! Also got Ring door bell, this captures anyone hanging around maybe casing the place. I have a lovely clear video of a guy nosing in our back garden (before our gate was replaced,) a couple of years ago. My dream would be handle attached to 24v lorry battery but apparently it's illegal!  Hey ho. Also with the Hubble (got in Costco but Argos do them,) they have a microphone, so if someone got in you can frighten the bejusus out of them & tell them the police are on the way!


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## Cozzer

A good few years ago some friends of mine ran a small jewellery making business in a remote craft centre. It wasn't long before they got 'turned over', so obviously beefed up their security afterwards.
They purchased an alarm system with a siren, which was encased in a steel mesh, well up an outside wall.
I was there when first installed and tested - God, was it loud!
A few weeks went by, and then I heard they'd been hit again....and the siren? Had it failed?
Nope.
They'd got up to it courtesy of a pair of ladders, and sprayed expanding foam inside.
The alarm went off when they broke in, and nobody heard a damn thing....


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## stevek

I would like a simple alarm for my shed but they are not so easy to find a decent one, the little keypad one from Amazon was a hopless piece of junk which went back. When I had a bike I heard of lots of people useing a baby alarm in the garage, they are wireless and the noise or any soft speaking will be picked up, perhaps its possible with modern ones to be able to talk back through it,,would that scare them off?? And I know you can buy a camera which is motion activated and certainly allows you to see and tell the theives that they have been recorded and that the police have been called via your mobile phone. If you look on ebay there is quite a number of heavyweight door security bars, they slot into the frame on both sides and are secured by big padlocks, not too expensive either. Hopefully most shed thieves are not professionals and even simple things might put them off,,,I hope!


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## bp122

That is awful to hear, mate. No one should have to go through this.

I feel so enraged.

I wrote a long paragraph here about how you can use violence against those who truly deserve it, but then I realised I was getting angrier just writing the damn thing.

All I can say is I wish none of you go through this ever again!

We talk about workshop safety and blade guards etc all day, why can't be there a way the thieves just fall on a table saw when it is running without a blade guard?

Oh wait, I'm hulking out again (not getting bigger or anything, just getting angrier but still pathetically weak!)


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## Fergie 307

Best thing is an alarm that will go off before they get to the building. I have beams and slot pirs. Can't get within six to eight feet of the building without all hell breaking loose, whole set up cost about £100. Ditch the rubbish siren that comes with most of them, I have mine wired to a 300db airhorn. Just make sure you set carefully up to avoid false alarms, otherwise you will be unpopular with the neighbours.


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## bp122

Fergie 307 said:


> Best thing is an alarm that will go off before they get to the building. I have beams and slot pirs. Can't get within six to eight feet of the building without all hell breaking loose, whole set up cost about £100. Ditch the rubbish siren that comes with most of them, I have mine wired to a 300db airhorn. Just make sure you set carefully up to avoid false alarms, otherwise you will be unpopular with the neighbours.


Cool. Our neighbour's cats go all over and around my garage, would that set the sirens off?


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## Fergie 307

As an aside you can use a baby monitor inside the building so even if you have the not very loud standard siren you will be able to hear it through the baby monitor at your bedside. Make sure your alarm has a visible blinking light or whatever outside to warn the scroats it's alarmed. And don't have the alarm siren outside where they can get at it or they will simply fill it with expanding foam to knock it out.


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## Spectric

KT -andy said:


> Carpet gripper on top of the wall . Smeared with excrement - nothing like a good infection for the thieving scum



That took me back many years, someone I knew suspected that someone had been looking at his shed and garden machinery overnight and found some boot prints where they had come over the fence, his solution was a couple of bits of wood with nails and covered in excrement placed in the area.

Nothing for a few months and then one night the whole neighbourhood was woken up by a blood curdling scream, yes they had come back and found the nails.

Another method of security, or another approach that has often been used is to make the items worthless to anyone but yourself. Many hire firms used to etch their names into hire tools to make them more reconisable. A firm I worked for had their mobile IT all branded with the company logo, basically like they branded cattle. So make yourself a small branding tool and put your mark on them along with say smartwater and they become valueless to all others.

Back to your doors, thinking back to my shed door I fitted these, https://www.amazon.co.uk/Asec-HS182...ocphy=9046727&hvtargid=pla-314066269362&psc=1

They are fitted on the inside so cannot be easily got at and work very well, I brought mine from a local locksmith but believe they are all basically the same.


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## Fergie 307

bp122 said:


> Cool. Our neighbour's cats go all over and around my garage, would that set the sirens off?


Similar problem in that I have a couple of small dogs. The beams are set about 4 foot off the ground. The slot pir, also called curtain pirs, sense over a narrow horizontal plane. Again mounted about 4 foot up so the dogs are underneath the sensing area. Cats might be a nuisance to the pir, but the beam sensors have to be broken directly so shouldn't be too difficult to set them up so the cats can't break the beam. You can make your own slot type pir sensors. If you get a standard sensor designed to control lights, 12v input/output. Get some plastic 25mm pipe conduit couplers. These fit neatly around the sensor lens. Now hear up one end of the coupler with a hot air gun and squash it flat into a fishtail shape. Put a piece of wood or metal in between the sides to determine the width of your slot. Now you can place it over your sensor and you have a narrow sensing area. Varying the length of the tube will vary the sensing area. You can test it by just rigging it up so it activates a bulb so you can judge the sensing area you have and adjust your mask accordingly.


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## DBT85

I've wondered about a loud as hell horn that simply operates on the door opening. Needs to be unlocked with a beeper like your car before you open the door.

Deafen the shits.


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## Fergie 307

DBT85 said:


> I've wondered about a loud as hell horn that simply operates on the door opening. Needs to be unlocked with a beeper like your car before you open the door.
> 
> Deafen the shits.


Only problem then is they have probably already wrecked your door! 
My pirs are fitted behind the featherboards. The only thing you can see is a slot about 10mm high and 50mm wide, these are positioned under the wide part at the bottom of the board above. They are virtually invisible but each has a field of view of about 30 degrees side to side, and a range of about 12-15 feet. They will only detect something that's between roughly 4 and 5 feet off the ground, so the dogs, Muntjac etc don't set them off. These protect the side accessible from my neighbour's garden, the rest is protected by beams. As I say the beauty is that however you approach the building you can't get right up to it without setting off the alarm, so hopefully they water off before doing any damage, and without knowing why or how they set it off.


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## DBT85

Any pics @Fergie 307 or links to the products?


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## Davey44

martinlt1000 said:


> Well, after building my workshop over the past few months and sorting out all my tools (with a french cleat system), it seems I turned it into a veritable palace for some thieving b******s who broke in last night. Seven power tools were taken and I'm now looking at beefing up the security (was a single padlock on hasp) and keen to take any advice to prevent this happening again when I replace the tools.
> 
> So far this morning I've ordered an alarm and an extra door defender to block the double doors to the front.
> 
> Any tips/ideas welcome - I'm contemplating leaving my german shepherd in there overnight tonight in case they decide to return for more of my tools.



Hello Martin. So sorry to hear of your losses. I would say what I think and feel about such people, but it might offend some if I used the language they deserve. Since we'd been burgled twice within 5 years I bought and installed a full intruder alarm system. It wasn't inexpensive, but since we haven't had any attempts to enter since I installed it, it was worth it. A few years ago I upgraded the system and used the (now spare) external siren system on show in one of the higher windows in the workshop. It's a soler-recharged unit so it gets recharged when there's sufficient light, so it's pretty well maintenance free. With that, a powerful intruder light unit installed so that it shines over the door when triggered and a 5 lever mortise lock, I have never had any kind of issues! 

Based on my experience, the most important things to achieve are DISCOURAGEMENT and DELAY. 

If potential house (or shed) breakers can see something that looks as if it might advertise their presence as soon as they get close they're far less likely to spend very long there. That relates to intruder lights and obvious alarm systems.

Delaying them can also make them decide not to bother. There are almost always richer and easier pickings elsewhere. So, the use of steel bars bolted across any doors which the thieves think they could open, and secured either with a mortise lock or a substantial padlock through the eyes of the steel bars will certainly make them think twice. Reinforcing the areas around any fixed locks, such as steel plate bolted through the door or the shed itself is always a way of making life difficult for them. BTW., I say this as a resident of what is considered a 'pleasant part of the city'. Crime stats though tell a different tale! All the best mate!


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## Spectric

A simple solution for everyone would be for the UK to bring in the right to defend your property like the Americans have, then you could use real deterents which not only protect your property but could also prevent the scum reoffending, much harder for them with fingers and bits missing.


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## Fergie 307

Dorton003 sells some good beam based kits on e bay. Only link being as a satisfied customer. You can use pir etc with his kits, just so long as your sensors can send +12v back to the board. Most pir actually switch the negative so I had to put in a relay to give the correct output. Be aware that if you want to use a big horn as I have then you will need to use the siren output from the board to fire a relay to the horn, as it draws too much power for the board output. That also applies to most house alarm boards, they will generally only support the relatively weedy siren that comes in your typical bell box. The horn is powered by its own 20amp 12v supply, switched by the relay. If you use beams you need to think where you will put them. Always have the receiver on the building, and ideally positioned so you can't get to it without breaking the beam. The receiver will fire as soon as the beam from the transmitter is interrupted, either because someone breaks the beam, or If someone smashes the transmitter in an effort to disable it. Davey is quite right, if you use powerful pir activated flood lights, this will put most casual burglars off.


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## Davey44

Spectric said:


> A simple solution for everyone would be for the UK to bring in the right to defend your property like the Americans have, then you could use real deterents which not only protect your property but could also prevent the scum reoffending, much harder for them with fingers and bits missing.



It does rather make you feel that way doesn't it Spectric? Anyone who enters someone's premises (house, garden, garage, shed, workshop) deserves to get a salutary experience with a fit householder encouraging them to leave quickly, or better still being detained until the 999 wallers turn up to take them into custody.


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## DBT85

Spectric said:


> A simple solution for everyone would be for the UK to bring in the right to defend your property like the Americans have, then you could use real deterents which not only protect your property but could also prevent the scum reoffending, much harder for them with fingers and bits missing.



As long as you make sure that when you chop their fingers off it was just the heat of the moment you're fine.

In reality if you confront an intruder with a baseball bat they are going to leg it. We don't want to descend into the idiocy that is the USA where everyone sleeps with a gun in their kids sock drawer.


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## Davey44

DBT85 said:


> As long as you make sure that when you chop their fingers off it was just the heat of the moment you're fine.
> 
> In reality if you confront an intruder with a baseball bat they are going to leg it. We don't want to descend into the idiocy that is the USA where everyone sleeps with a gun in their kids sock drawer.



Agreed about not wanting the UK to get anything like the USA. Mind you, not all of the population is quite as mad as those who promote the use of firearms, are they?


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## DBT85

Davey44 said:


> Agreed about not wanting the UK to get anything like the USA. Mind you, not all of the population is quite as mad as those who promote the use of firearms, are they?


Not all of them are no. Though there is a gap between promoting use of firearms and walking around asda with an AK round your neck.

A lot of folk there just want to own guns.


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## Davey44

Quite true DBT85. Maybe it's something like 'male jewellery' for them? However, in that case how does one account for the female variety? Rhetorical question.

Yes, I'm sure you're right about wanting to own guns! So did I when I was 15, but I grew out of it!


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## kinverkid

You may want to look at sound bombs. You will need to look at the domestic versions and when and where you can use them They give out an ear piercing scream which is unbearable especially to younger people. As far as CCTV is concerned you want it hidden and low, around 1.7m. A PIR just above the camera will not only have the perisher look to move the light but should give you a better picture of him. The camera is only there to catch his image though. Never think of them as deterrents. He'll be Nike'd up in a hoodie and baseball cap in case there are cameras. An alarm of sorts does sound like a good idea but it looks like previous commenters have some good advice worth looking into.


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## stevek

On a low tech note, is anyone using one of the the cheap ebay alarms? there are pages of them but really only about 3 or 4 types, I bought the Defender one because it had a vibration sensor that would set it off if the door was shaken, and it all looked good in the photo but was a disapointing bit of cheap junk, and within a few days the siren which always went off before it could be keypad disabled turned into a pathetic squeek,,so I got a refund.
I had previously been using one of the Alarm Padlocks which our local council was selling and I have to say that it seemed good, beeped if if disturbded and was a reasonably loud siren if touched again, it lasted a couple of years befor the electronics gave up,,but I liked it because it would warn intruders off before damage was done. All I can see are either magnetic contact door alarms, which require the door to open, or the PIR type which would not go off untill they had broken in,,,Im also concerned that these pir jobs might be set off by spiders and the like..anyone got any ideas on what works?
I have been thinking of trying to create a trip wire type of thing, say just a bit back from the door so that it would be pulled by somone going towards the door and set off,,
Steve.


----------



## Fergie 307

We used to make something like that as kids. Wooden spring type clothes peg with drawing pins pushed into each side of the jaws. Get a piece of plastic, I used to use my dad's plant labels, and tie it to a piece of fishing line. Connect your drawing pins to a battery powered sounder so it works when the contacts are together. Now put the plastic between the jaws and tie the end of the line to something. If someone trips over it and pulls the plastic out viola. You could easily make something a little more sophisticated, but simple and it works.


----------



## DiyAddict

Don't put your dog in there if he's used to sleeping in the house. It's likely to cause him a great deal of stress and you'd have to do it for months to be effective. There's also the possibility the thieves could harm him. I'm sure you'd rather lose the tools than have anything happen to him.


----------



## jcassidy

Spectric said:


> A simple solution for everyone would be for the UK to bring in the right to defend your property like the Americans have, then you could use real deterents which not only protect your property but could also prevent the scum reoffending, much harder for them with fingers and bits missing.



So I train people in self defence (Krav Maga, mainly, with a bit of BJJ and Jeet Kune Do) and we always ask in the first class of the foundation course; what things are you willing to kill someone for?

Unsurprisingly, very few list cars, money, or any other possessions. Never mind spilt pints or a disrespectful slur. Its always things like kids, partners, etc.*

So yes, it's easy to say 'oh if only we could inflict violence on these thieving scumbags' yet the question is, and always has been, would you kill someone for your tools? For your car?

Because you can't inflict just a little violence and stop. Any violence has the likelihood of death and we as a social animal have profound legal, moral, and psychological barriers against murder, otherwise society wouldn't work.

The point.of the lesson being, decide now, calmly and logically, what exactly you would kill for, with all the consequences that ensue. And screw everything else.

That way, you don't have to try to think about it when some scrote is stealing your car, or wants your wallet, or is in your house at 4am. You just have to do what you have already decided to do.

*Edit: there are of course people who would kill over a car, but we don't train those people. You can usually find them down at the local MMA gym...


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## stevek

Fergie 307 said:


> We used to make something like that as kids. Wooden spring type clothes peg with drawing pins pushed into each side of the jaws. Get a piece of plastic, I used to use my dad's plant labels, and tie it to a piece of fishing line. Connect your drawing pins to a battery powered sounder so it works when the contacts are together. Now put the plastic between the jaws and tie the end of the line to something. If someone trips over it and pulls the plastic out viola. You could easily make something a little more sophisticated, but simple and it works.


Many thanks Fergie, yes thats the sort of thing, because its outside I would have to considder things catching it, but if set up at say waist height at least it wouldnt be set off by the dog or stray cats,,


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## Valhalla

Buy a shotgun and a rocking chair and wait...........


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## Inspector

You guys don't have bears so bear spray is probably a little hard to come by. Be nice if it could be set to go off when near the door or window.  

It was said earlier that electricity can't be used. Does that mean you don't have electric fences to keep livestock in a pasture? It is an unpleasant jolt but doesn't kill. A metal door in a plastic frame would keep all but Frankensteins monster from opening it. The neighbours dog will only pee on it once. 

Kidding aside. Strong doors and widows along with good alarms and cameras are about all you can do.


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## Sachakins

This sort of detector, multi beam, requires at least two beams to be interrupted to trigger alarm.


https://smile.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07SNTKJB3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabc_05E74EG41Z7CGGGKACYK


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## Jonm

I have a garage/workshop. When building it I gave some thought to what would happen if I had a fire whilst working inside. As a consequence I placed the small side door accordingly, which was not in the most convenient position for use.

So if you have more than one door it would be worth considering what happens if you need to get out in a hurry. Super secure external bars, still in place would not be good.

I may be over cautious but it is just something to consider.


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## Jonm

Spectric said:


> A simple solution for everyone would be for the UK to bring in the right to defend your property like the Americans have, then you could use real deterents which not only protect your property but could also prevent the scum reoffending, much harder for them with fingers and bits missing.


I appreciate the sentiment but I think the reality would not be so good. Too much chance of it going wrong and injuring innocent parties. Also “the scum” may just decide to get their own back, they would know who you are and where you and your family live, you would know nothing about them.


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## Stigolo

Sorry to hear about this. I got done over about a year ago. Still raging about it now!

I fitted a long throw gate lock from screwfix which are really solid

I also secure the door with a chain from the inside before locking up, pushing my hand through to motorbike chain fixed to the wall and door. Bit fiddly, but if they jimmy the door and open it the alarm goes off but they still can't get in as the opening is too small when resticted by the chain. 

I also have a padlock with integrated alarm on the door that triggers if moved. So a couple of alarm layers that will activate before they get access. 

My alarm is a Yale type with linked devices. Once it goes off, lights turn on in my house which is next to the workshop. So if i'm away they may think i'm still in. 

Some nice ideas on this thread. Keep them coming as the thieving scum seem to be growing in numbers.


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## Jonm

stevek said:


> On a low tech note, is anyone using one of the the cheap ebay alarms? there are pages of them but really only about 3 or 4 types, I bought the Defender one because it had a vibration sensor that would set it off if the door was shaken, and it all looked good in the photo but was a disapointing bit of cheap junk, and within a few days the siren which always went off before it could be keypad disabled turned into a pathetic squeek,,so I got a refund.
> I had previously been using one of the Alarm Padlocks which our local council was selling and I have to say that it seemed good, beeped if if disturbded and was a reasonably loud siren if touched again, it lasted a couple of years befor the electronics gave up,,but I liked it because it would warn intruders off before damage was done. All I can see are either magnetic contact door alarms, which require the door to open, or the PIR type which would not go off untill they had broken in,,,Im also concerned that these pir jobs might be set off by spiders and the like..anyone got any ideas on what works?
> I have been thinking of trying to create a trip wire type of thing, say just a bit back from the door so that it would be pulled by somone going towards the door and set off,,
> Steve.


You can get shock sensors to go on doors and windows which operate if someone tries to force their way in. There are pir sensors which have zones, something has to be detected by two zones before it triggers, so small dog does not trigger the pir but a person does. Look up texecom, expensive and really suited to a house with sensors also in the workshop.


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## Jonzjob

When I have had alarms anywhere the siren has always been mounted inside. That way it not only disorientates the thugs but they can't hear if anyone is coming to find out what's going on. The plus is that if it's ;oud enough it's very difficult to steal anything with your fingers in your ears!

I fitted an alarm in one of my cars, before the days of factory fits, and one day I was going out from the alkward junction of our llane and stalled the car. The battery wasn't very good and when I tried to start the car it dropped the voltage right down and when i let go of the key it set the alarm off. I was out of there is double quick time and my ears were ringing for 15 or so minutes after!

I had my workshop built in the garden when we moved in here. It has the security package fitted. Bars on both windows. They are set into the frames when the panels were made. Plus a security lock on the double doors with large bolts going into the upper frame and the concrete base. I also have a Veritas alarm in there with the stickers on the windows and door and finally, blinds on the windows so the thugs can't see what's in there. And for my comfort it's also insulated and the windows are double glazed. Cost a lot, but worth it to keep me awd bones as comfortable as possible!


----------



## Anthraquinone

An ex work colleague of mine in South Africa has electrified razor wire round his property and a hand gun next to the front door of his house. That seems to work !!! 

I am not sure I would like to live like that.


----------



## recipio

I have a rural site and would like to put a steel shed on it. Its surrounded by thick ditches so the only possible entry would be through an electric gate. I'm pretty sure these can be opened with a nudge from a vehicle. Anyone know if the sliding versions are vehicle proof.?


----------



## gregmcateer

That's a real bar steward, Martin. 
If spikes on the walls are not an option, anti climb paint on top might be good - leaves the tea leaf very messy and gunked up.


----------



## Jonm

recipio said:


> I have a rural site and would like to put a steel shed on it. Its surrounded by thick ditches so the only possible entry would be through an electric gate. I'm pretty sure these can be opened with a nudge from a vehicle. Anyone know if the sliding versions are vehicle proof.?


I have electric gates with external activators and I think a nudge from a vehicle would break the actuators. You can fit electric locks which automatically locks the leaves together which should make them more secure. Try contacting a manufacturer/installer regarding sliding gates, I would expect them to be a lot more expensive as they are a specialist item, as opposed to standard gates with off the shelf bolt on actuators.

Electric rising bollard would be another option in addition to the electric gates. Bollard could go in front of the gates as a deterrent or behind as more security to prevent the gates being opened.

As with all electric gates check the safety. Children are attracted to them and there have been fatalities and owners/installers imprisoned.


----------



## Jonm

Anthraquinone said:


> An ex work colleague of mine in South Africa has electrified razor wire round his property and a hand gun next to the front door of his house. That seems to work !!!
> 
> I am not sure I would like to live like that.





Anthraquinone said:


> An ex work colleague of mine in South Africa has electrified razor wire round his property and a hand gun next to the front door of his house. That seems to work !!!
> 
> I am not sure I would like to live like that.


I am sure something like this from South Africa could be modified to protect the workshop. Need to sort out how stop the dog or neighbours cat from activating it.


I think this is genuine, not an April fools joke. Looks highly dangerous to passing cyclists or pedestrians.


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## JohnT

I got an alarm from amazon that senses someone approaching and starts to play a sound of a dog barking. I can also set it to just bleep which is the setting i use in the hope that they think we have been alerted by the alarm.


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## Spectric

recipio said:


> I have a rural site and would like to put a steel shed on it. Its surrounded by thick ditches so the only possible entry would be through an electric gate.


Thats always going to be difficult because isolation favours the criminal, if they can make a bit of noise without disturbing anyone then they have the advantage. I would agree that the first point to secure is that single entrance to the property, forget fancy electric gates and get something fabricated, heavy steel post concreted into the ground and a very heavy duty barrier with a counter balance otherwise you will find it hard to operate. Remember all parts need to be upto the same level of integrity, one weak part can undo all your work. Use concealed hinge pins and multiple locking devices on both ends. Then as someone mentioned use bollards in front as well. 

As for the steel shed take care with its design, do not make it so the criminals can open it up like a tin of sardines, no point securing all the doors and windows if they can make their own entrance.


----------



## recipio

Spectric said:


> Thats always going to be difficult because isolation favours the criminal, if they can make a bit of noise without disturbing anyone then they have the advantage.
> 
> As for the steel shed take care with its design, do not make it so the criminals can open it up like a tin of sardines, no point securing all the doors and windows if they can make their own entrance.



Thanks. I hope to put a house on the site eventually so don't want the entrance to be too industrial. A two way communication system and remote opening would be handy as well to let bona fide visitors in.
I'm thinking of avoiding windows altogether as a security risk and just rely on clear panels in the roof.
The door is the obvious weak point - any opinion on how good steel 'security doors' are as all the shed builders offer them as an option.


----------



## Jonm

recipio said:


> Thanks. I hope to put a house on the site eventually so don't want the entrance to be too industrial. A two way communication system and remote opening would be handy as well to let bona fide visitors in.
> I'm thinking of avoiding windows altogether as a security risk and just rely on clear panels in the roof.
> The door is the obvious weak point - any opinion on how good steel 'security doors' are as all the shed builders offer them as an option.


I have gates with steel posts, steel frame and wood facing. They came with actuators and basic control electronics. The posts had brackets welded on for the actuators, hence buying the gates with actuators. Gates were from metal mania and I was pleased with quality and service and they look good. You could think about having a gate made for timber facing but fitting bolted on steel sheet. It would be more robust than wood facing and look more robust as a deterrent but you could change it to wood if and when you build the house.


Metal and Wood Combined Gates



My gates have remotes but also I have an intercom so I can see and speak to visitors before opening the gate. The intercom came from easy gates who were very helpful. You could try contacting them for some advice, they sell all sorts of stuff for electric gates and probably could advise you on security. I replied before about your concerns about forcing the gates.








Home - EasyGates.co.uk


The Home of Electric gates and gate automation, garage door openers and access control systems. From a wide range of the top brands!




www.easygates.co.uk


----------



## stevek

Jonm said:


> You can get shock sensors to go on doors and windows which operate if someone tries to force their way in. There are pir sensors which have zones, something has to be detected by two zones before it triggers, so small dog does not trigger the pir but a person does. Look up texecom, expensive and really suited to a house with sensors also in the workshop.


Hi Jonm, the shock sensors, Ive seen them advertised for windows and I assumed that the considerable shock that perhaps travels through a window being broken would ne needed to set them of,,,they look like bits of foil I think?? Is it possible to get one that would detect somone pulling at the door, I know that I could try to set up a microswitch but its finding a balance between creating somthing thats sensitive without say the wind moving the door and setting false alarms. So far I have to say that the infra red gate looks very promising or the double PiR sensors but what does it need to be connected up too is the next question? 
steve.


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## stimpy

Bit late to this thread but sorry to hear about your experience. I also had the same, built an oak framed unit and hadn’t alarmed it... Came to the van in the morning and door had been jemmied open. £7.5k gone!! 

Utter scum.

At that stage I was thinking of an early warning system linked to my shotgun and a few large dogs!! Alternatively some sort of electrification  But just ended up with an alarm system - we have plenty of folk / neighbours around during the day and generally this village is incredibly safe - was just a gang on one night...

Goodluck.


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## Jonm

stevek said:


> Hi Jonm, the shock sensors, Ive seen them advertised for windows and I assumed that the considerable shock that perhaps travels through a window being broken would ne needed to set them of,,,they look like bits of foil I think?? Is it possible to get one that would detect somone pulling at the door, I know that I could try to set up a microswitch but its finding a balance between creating somthing thats sensitive without say the wind moving the door and setting false alarms. So far I have to say that the infra red gate looks very promising or the double PiR sensors but what does it need to be connected up too is the next question?
> steve.


The sensitivity of the shock sensor is adjustable, a case of adjustment to avoid false alarms. I would imagine a loose fitting door would be a problem. The following video towards the end shows tapping to trigger the alarm.


Wired shock sensors are much cheaper than wireless. As for setting it up the texecom ones are for professionals so are a bit of a challenge for diy. Google texecom kits and you will see what is available. Kits start at about £180 for a wired system. Really they are best used for a whole house with sensors in the workshop, I am in the process of setting this up.

Here is a video of someone going through the system, it is a bit long but gives a good idea of what is involved. For just a workshop there must be simple systems with decent shock sensors.


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## Fergie 307

Most beam sensors, and many pirs simply need a 12v dc power source. When activated they return 12v. If you wanted to keep it really simple you could just get a timer relay, about £10 on ebay. This, when fed 12v will then output 12v for an adjustable period of time. You can use this output to power a sounder. You could easily power the whole lot from a car battery, and use a car horn as the sounder. Add a flashing led mounted outside as a warning. The standby power consumption is trivial so a typical car battery would run this for several weeks probably, or use a simple solar charger to keep it topped up. You would need to have a switch somewhere to turn it off.


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## Heluvaname

If you have a remote location with no phone line/internet then an Ajax wireless alarm is a good option. It can take a network agnostic SIM card for alerts to a smartphone, and can be run off am optional internal battery pack, or am external car battery.

Better to stop them getting in in the first place with good physical security, but the Ajax can also be used as a perimeter alert system with appropriate sensors, and even linked to cameras to send images to your phone anywhere.


----------



## Spectric

stimpy said:


> Bit late to this thread but sorry to hear about your experience. I also had the same, built an oak framed unit and hadn’t alarmed it... Came to the van in the morning and door had been jemmied open. £7.5k gone


An alarm may have annoyed them but would it have actually prevented the theft. These days so many people hearing an alarm going off just think of it as a nusuiance and take no further action. 

As I have said security is a process of layers, there is no single preventative measure and a determined thief is hard to stop. What you can do is to make it difficult and time consuming, they do not want to hang around too long as it increases the chance of detection. Your power tools are probably the main target, easy to take, transport and sell so make it hard for them. I have already said that a branded, defaced tool is functionally the same for yourself but has little value to the thief, Smart marking is also a valuable detterent.

So they have managed to get into your workshop, yes I know it is nice to have all your tools nicely layed out ready for use but that makes easy pickings for them so use a secure storage vault within your workshop where you put all the expensive portable power tools, infact use a couple because each one requires time to attack, don't leave all your tools in one basket! but leave some cheap Lidl wonders and the like laying around so they have something to take, they may well just grab and run. If you really want to go that extra mile and think its worth the expense then the marking systems like Smartwater also do spray systems designed to cover the thieves and prove they were there. SmartWater® Forensic Spray System - Moore Security Systems Ltd


----------



## stevek

Many thanks for the various ideas, we dont have an alarm in the house and I dont have thousands of pounds worth of gear in the shed but I dont want the bug gers breaking my doors or nicking anything,,Im a little concerned that a smart alarm box would only encourage theives to think there was somthing worth nicking. I like the shock sensor devices, somone trying the door would set it off, but the Honeywell Viper sensors etc seem to be stuffed full of electronics and are part of a professional type alarm,,,is it possible to use one of these in a diy system of say a power supply, siren, shock sensor and perhaps a hidden switch?
On a different tack there are various cheap Car Alarms for sale, many link to central locking etc but there are simple ones which might be Shock Sensing only or shock combined with an interier light being triggered (ie switched on) so as a thought, could the shock sensor be fitted to the door with a door switch as back up if the door was opened? These come with a couple of remote controls too,,not necessary perhaps but smart all the same.
Steve.


----------



## Jonm

stevek said:


> Many thanks for the various ideas, we dont have an alarm in the house and I dont have thousands of pounds worth of gear in the shed but I dont want the bug gers breaking my doors or nicking anything,,Im a little concerned that a smart alarm box would only encourage theives to think there was somthing worth nicking. I like the shock sensor devices, somone trying the door would set it off, but the Honeywell Viper sensors etc seem to be stuffed full of electronics and are part of a professional type alarm,,,is it possible to use one of these in a diy system of say a power supply, siren, shock sensor and perhaps a hidden switch?
> On a different tack there are various cheap Car Alarms for sale, many link to central locking etc but there are simple ones which might be Shock Sensing only or shock combined with an interier light being triggered (ie switched on) so as a thought, could the shock sensor be fitted to the door with a door switch as back up if the door was opened? These come with a couple of remote controls too,,not necessary perhaps but smart all the same.
> Steve.


The sounder can be mounted anywhere, hidden inside the shed or outside with an inconspicuous cover. You could decide what you want and email a number of suppliers and see what they come back with. Here is one I found but has timed entry/exit and codes, Mains but with AA battery backup. I suspect you want something switched on and off from a key Located outside the shed. Let us know if you find anything simple, cheap and effective.


----------



## Jonm

Jonm said:


> The sounder can be mounted anywhere, hidden inside the shed or outside with an inconspicuous cover. You could decide what you want and email a number of suppliers and see what they come back with. Here is one I found but has timed entry/exit and codes, Mains but with AA battery backup. I suspect you want something switched on and off from a key Located outside the shed. Let us know if you find anything simple, cheap and effective.


Link attached this time


https://cpc.farnell.com/lynteck/ly52-000-33/alarm-kit-2-wire-ls400/dp/SR07478


----------



## Pallet Fancier

KT -andy said:


> Carpet gripper on top of the wall . Smeared with excrement - nothing like a good infection for the thieving scum
> What are you going to do when the alarm goes off ?
> Run out side and get stabbed .



Yup. Best policy is to keep them out or deter them from coming in, but once they're in, keep your head down! And I speak as one who, in younger days, took off down the road in his dressing gown after two of the bar stewards. I think my command of foul and depraved language is what saved me from them realising they just had to stop running. (In a former life, I must have been a parade ground sergeant. I woke up the whole neighbourhood and scandalised half of it.)

But don't do that. Seriously. Even though the police caught the pippers... still, don't do it!

I recently built a new side gate. It's seven feet tall, has a triangular top that comes to a sharp point, only opens from the outside, only swings inwards and bolts top and bottom. I'm going to add something spikey to the top sides (pest control, if anyone asks) which will also run along the adjoining fence panel which they would naturally place a hand upon to climb, and will also run across my neighbour's side gate because, as you have learned, if your neighbour itsn't secure, you aren't. 

My neighbour has a gate with open slats that you can see through. I hate that. Mine does not. No lines of sight on my side, which eliminates their ability to see into the garden from the front of the house, and see what's there. Anywhere they can see into, they feel safer breaking in to. If they have to jump into the unknown, they usually won't. I'm going to talk to my neighbour about providing a free upgrade...


----------



## Pallet Fancier

martinlt1000 said:


> The problem with the wall height is that my land is about 1.5m lower than my neighbours. Which means the wall would be about 4m high in some sections and block loads of light coming into our garden.


----------



## Pallet Fancier

Fergie 307 said:


> Best thing is an alarm that will go off before they get to the building. I have beams and slot pirs. Can't get within six to eight feet of the building without all hell breaking loose, whole set up cost about £100. Ditch the rubbish siren that comes with most of them, I have mine wired to a 300db airhorn. Just make sure you set carefully up to avoid false alarms, otherwise you will be unpopular with the neighbours.



I have a siren from a Fire Engine! And now I know why I kept it all these years!


----------



## Fergie 307

stevek said:


> Many thanks for the various ideas, we dont have an alarm in the house and I dont have thousands of pounds worth of gear in the shed but I dont want the bug gers breaking my doors or nicking anything,,Im a little concerned that a smart alarm box would only encourage theives to think there was somthing worth nicking. I like the shock sensor devices, somone trying the door would set it off, but the Honeywell Viper sensors etc seem to be stuffed full of electronics and are part of a professional type alarm,,,is it possible to use one of these in a diy system of say a power supply, siren, shock sensor and perhaps a hidden switch?
> On a different tack there are various cheap Car Alarms for sale, many link to central locking etc but there are simple ones which might be Shock Sensing only or shock combined with an interier light being triggered (ie switched on) so as a thought, could the shock sensor be fitted to the door with a door switch as back up if the door was opened? These come with a couple of remote controls too,,not necessary perhaps but smart all the same.
> Steve.


You can buy shock sensors on e bay for less than £10. You just need to make sure that whatever you get is compatible with how you intend to control it, normally open, normally closed etc.


----------



## Fergie 307

Spectric said:


> An alarm may have annoyed them but would it have actually prevented the theft. These days so many people hearing an alarm going off just think of it as a nusuiance and take no further action.
> 
> As I have said security is a process of layers, there is no single preventative measure and a determined thief is hard to stop. What you can do is to make it difficult and time consuming, they do not want to hang around too long as it increases the chance of detection. Your power tools are probably the main target, easy to take, transport and sell so make it hard for them. I have already said that a branded, defaced tool is functionally the same for yourself but has little value to the thief, Smart marking is also a valuable detterent.
> 
> So they have managed to get into your workshop, yes I know it is nice to have all your tools nicely layed out ready for use but that makes easy pickings for them so use a secure storage vault within your workshop where you put all the expensive portable power tools, infact use a couple because each one requires time to attack, don't leave all your tools in one basket! but leave some cheap Lidl wonders and the like laying around so they have something to take, they may well just grab and run. If you really want to go that extra mile and think its worth the expense then the marking systems like Smartwater also do spray systems designed to cover the thieves and prove they were there. SmartWater® Forensic Spray System - Moore Security Systems Ltd


Have to agree. Sadly the aim here is not so much to prevent someone thieving your stuff, as to persuade them that it would be a lot easier, quicker, safer to thieve someone else's. Most of them are going to be opportunists, if you make it difficult or uncomfortable for them they will go and find somewhere else.


----------



## Pallet Fancier

Spectric said:


> but leave some cheap Lidl wonders and the like laying around so they have something to take, they may well just grab and run.



Hey! I resemble that remark!

But seriously, I knew a guy who had a big old-fashioned sailing yacht with a windscreen/dodger over the cockpit. When he gets it lifted out at the yard he obviously ends up keeping a lot of tools inside, while he's working on it. No one with any experience of keeping a boat (not just messing about in one) will tell you to bother trying to make it theft proof. Only a battleship could withstand a lump hammer. They'll just wreck your hatchway getting in, but they will get in. So my friend got a spares and repairs brushless drill off ebay and got into the habit of leaving it in the open cockpit, tucked under the dodger as though he were trying to keep it out of the rain. The idea was that anyone wandering around the yard who looked over the side and saw this drill would go for the easy, quick option - they'd grab the drill and go, rather than risk drawing attention by battering their way in, or hanging around long enough to be noticed.

And of course, if he came back one day and found the drill gone, he'd know there was a problem.

I'm wondering what the workshop/garden shed equivalent of this tactic might be.


----------



## stevek

Fergie 307 said:


> You can buy shock sensors on e bay for less than £10. You just need to make sure that whatever you get is compatible with how you intend to control it, normally open, normally closed etc.


Hmmm,,starting to sound complicated,,,normally open/ closed,, then leads me to think a little more, no good having an alarm that switches on then off again when the door is closed,,the clever bit is a signal sensing gizmo that once triggered keeps the alarm going,,Im going to look at the cheap car alarms which have a shock sensor,,,and I imagine a Gizmo too.
Steve.


----------



## XH558

Sorry for your losses. sprouts. A good set of punches so you can punch your postcode is great or laser etching. You can buy these on line and you can use it to tattoo THIEF on their foreheads if you catch any.......

Dawn to dusk light at back of house, Same at side and front. PIR lights in garden and outside sheds. It all lights up like a bloody Christmas tree!! 2" weldmesh over the windows. This also makes great hanging for clamps and hammers etc. Double locking Yale nightlatch. The hooligan on the left is quite good too.


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## jcassidy

So when we moved into our 'forever home', typical 2-story semi-d, I was concerned about the possibility of thieves hiding in the front garden and at the side gate. This is due to the street lighting casting deep dark shadows in those places. So I installed dawn-to-dusk lights on the front and side (with a light sensor), as well as an additional pair of PIR-activated lights on the door pillars. I also replaced the slatted side gate and fence with 7-foot tall 12mm T&G gate, painted in prison grey anti-climb paint (I thought the prison grey might deter ex-cons!). 

I then found out the local police sergeant, a lovely man but a great big hard-nosed old copper of the type that they don't make any more, lived right in front of me, and the burglars, dog-nappers and ne'er-do-wells never go near our street. LOL. Ah well.


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## Spectric

stevek said:


> Hmmm,,starting to sound complicated,,,normally open/ closed,, then leads me to think a little more, no good having an alarm that switches on then off again when the door is closed,,the clever bit is a signal sensing gizmo that once triggered keeps the alarm going


What the contacts need to do is latch a relay, so once triggered it remains on until reset by a keyswitch or some other means. Similar in operation to a DOL starter where once you hit the start button the machine remains ON until you hit the STOP button.


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## stimpy

Spectric said:


> An alarm may have annoyed them but would it have actually prevented the theft. These days so many people hearing an alarm going off just think of it as a nusuiance and take no further action.
> 
> As I have said security is a process of layers, there is no single preventative measure and a determined thief is hard to stop. What you can do is to make it difficult and time consuming, they do not want to hang around too long as it increases the chance of detection. Your power tools are probably the main target, easy to take, transport and sell so make it hard for them. I have already said that a branded, defaced tool is functionally the same for yourself but has little value to the thief, Smart marking is also a valuable detterent.
> 
> So they have managed to get into your workshop, yes I know it is nice to have all your tools nicely layed out ready for use but that makes easy pickings for them so use a secure storage vault within your workshop where you put all the expensive portable power tools, infact use a couple because each one requires time to attack, don't leave all your tools in one basket! but leave some cheap Lidl wonders and the like laying around so they have something to take, they may well just grab and run. If you really want to go that extra mile and think its worth the expense then the marking systems like Smartwater also do spray systems designed to cover the thieves and prove they were there. SmartWater® Forensic Spray System - Moore Security Systems Ltd



As per the rest of my post, in my situation I am lucky to have neighbours that would be around during the day and straight on it. But you are correct, many get ignored...


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## Spectric

Just remembered, lot of talk about how but here is the padlock and hasp to use, in my opinion very hard to get anything better but not cheap. The padlock uses a Boron steel shackle, and over £200 depending on keys and registration.

This is the hasp to use Abloy PL201 / PL203 Padlock Locking Plates only £42.50

with this padlock









Abloy PL362 Padlocks only £190.00 - Lowest UK Price!


Abloy PL362 Sentry Padlock ABLOY PL362 only £190.00 - In stock ABLOY padlocks have been designed not only to meet the European Standard




www.barnsleylock.co.uk


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## stevek

Jonm said:


> Link attached this time
> 
> 
> https://cpc.farnell.com/lynteck/ly52-000-33/alarm-kit-2-wire-ls400/dp/SR07478


Hi and many thanks for doing this Jon, I looked up the link, very surprised how cheap the basic alarm was,,,only one review though and thats a 1star stinker!,,plus the systems are all centred around PiR sensors,,Ive been looking at Car Alarms,,trying to get my head around what they consist of,,I couldnt do a proper link but if you get a chance have a look at item number 124165739018. Is it something I could do something with,,,
Steve.


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## Dabop

Fergie 307 said:


> Most beam sensors, and many pirs simply need a 12v dc power source. When activated they return 12v. If you wanted to keep it really simple you could just get a timer relay, about £10 on ebay. This, when fed 12v will then output 12v for an adjustable period of time. You can use this output to power a sounder. You could easily power the whole lot from a car battery, and use a car horn as the sounder. Add a flashing led mounted outside as a warning. The standby power consumption is trivial so a typical car battery would run this for several weeks probably, or use a simple solar charger to keep it topped up. You would need to have a switch somewhere to turn it off.


This is exactly what I put in my stepfathers shed about twenty years ago- it was broken into the very first night it was up (the typical round doorknob with key, they just twisted the entire mechanism with a pipe wrench!!!)- luckily all the tools were still inside the house and hadn't been moved in....
Fitted a PIR, that runs off a 12v plugpack, and sounds a loud piezo siren on a timer, has the flashing LED and all lol- I used a key switch lock thats mounted in the wall next to the door and flashing led so you just turn the key for the alarm, and then the key for the door...
A nice touch was another LED that was on a 'latching relay' circuit (just a 12v car relay) that if the alarm was triggered, would stay on until you turned off the power supply and then turned it back on to reset it...
Real easy to do, I didn't worry about the 'kill' button, just fitted a wire instead, just turn the PSU off then on does the same thing, and the LED connects to the 'load', the PIR relay is the 'start' button
If you see that LED lit, means the alarm has gone off...
total cost was about twenty bucks (ozzie) back then- probably cheaper now


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## CornishWoodworker

My Advise
Secure to the satisfaction of your insurance company.
If you see someone breaking in , call the Police.
If they steal things, claim of your insurance 
Not worth your health or life to intervene.
A friend of mine got up from bed as some people were stealing his car from his drive, he intervened and tragically was run over several times and killed, whilst trying to defend his car.
Really , really not worth it.


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## Paul200

Sorry to hear this. I owned a tool shop in Somerset and one piece of advice I had for customers who had been robbed was beware of a return visit. The thieves know that you will be replacing some or all of the tools they stole so will likely return at some stage to lift all the nice shiny new ones. It was advice based on customer experience so you are wise to enlist your dogs help until your security is beefed up.


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## Jelly

Spectric said:


> Alarms can be good but not wireless, and anything that can be triggered to cause a noise will deter the thieving b******s .



With that in mind, what cable would you generally run to signal back to an alarm in the house?

I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to regularise the issues I had with my workshop electrics and will be putting in new buried SWA 3 Core & SWA Cat6; whilst I don't have the cash for an alarm installation right now, it would be stupid not to take the chance to run the cabling whilst I have a trench open.


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## Spectric

Depends upon the location and distance, but alarm system cables should be multicore with at least one pair being part of an alarm loop so just cutting it will trigger. With more elaborate systems you also want a tamper loop so if it is cut but alarm is not set it will still trigger to warn you. Same applies to all component parts, jb's, panels etc which need anti tamper switches incase they are accessed. In my last setup I ran two three inch corrugated pipes between utility and workshop so could always pull in additional cables. Being old school I would also run internet to the workshop, but if you are modern phone user then probably not needed, I don't get on with so called smart phones at all, need a keyboard!

Have you thought of putting the alarm in your house and then the workshop as a zone from that. Make sure the alarm sounder is up high, not on side of the workshop because expanding foam can do a great job of keeping them quiet.


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## stevek

Well Ive been ferriting about on the internet and was looking into Car Alarms because I dont want a PiR based system, the intruder is in before the alarm is set off, I like the idea of a vibration sensor perhaps coupled with a straightforward door switch and a siren, and the alarms that I was finding had a Shock Sensor plus lots of wire connections to wind up windows, flash lights and be triggered by interier lights etc, I felt that one of these could be adapted. I then found this,,,,,,,,,well there is supposed to be a link here but its a load of machine code,,anyway if your intrested you need to look up “Winomo 12v Motorcycle Alarm” its a simpler alarm, in fact just a vibration sensor coupled to a unit that switches the Siren and turns it off/resets, it will run of a 9v pp battery and has the press stud connector fitted, but its better off a 12v battery or a PSU. The clincher was seeing a review from a chap who has bought two for use on his sheds and I sent him a note asking how they were going, he says they are working really well and hes very pleased with them,,,,and each one comes with a pair of remote controls and includes postage for the grand sum of less than £11.
Well Im sure they are not going to be rolls royce quality, more made in china cheap rubbish I suppose, but then its all you buy regardless of price,,and for £11 Im happy to fiddle with it. It comes on Friday, I will have had an have an op on my hand on wed, so it might be a week or two before I can fit it, but I will let you know how I get on.
Steve.


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## Jelly

Spectric said:


> Depends upon the location and distance, but alarm system cables should be multicore with at least one pair being part of an alarm loop so just cutting it will trigger. With more elaborate systems you also want a tamper loop so if it is cut but alarm is not set it will still trigger to warn you. Same applies to all component parts, jb's, panels etc which need anti tamper switches incase they are accessed.


That makes sense, if I ran a pair of 1mm² 7 core cables that would give me enough for a mag switch on each door, 2 PIR's, Tamper loop on remote panel, alarm loop, and communication for the remote panel.





Spectric said:


> In my last setup I ran two three inch corrugated pipes between utility and workshop so could always pull in additional cables.



This is a consideration, although adds cost compared to direct buried, I guess the question is whether it's cheaper right now to run a suitable conduit than the 2 additional cables.



Spectric said:


> Being old school I would also run internet to the workshop, but if you are modern phone user then probably not needed, I don't get on with so called smart phones at all, need a keyboard!



I'm running Cat 6 to add WiFi down there because there's no point me paying for full fibre internet to then rely on patchy 4G signal at a fraction of the speed; there's a consideration of moving my office out there for a while too to make other home improvements easier.



Spectric said:


> Have you thought of putting the alarm in your house and then the workshop as a zone from that. Make sure the alarm sounder is up high, not on side of the workshop because expanding foam can do a great job of keeping them quiet.



I think that's my best option, was looking at a Honeywell unit which allows me to have 6 zones plus 2 fire alarm zones, so would give workshop it's own security and fire zone.

Was planning to mount an rotary chopper type sounder internally in the centre of the roof space, and have the external sounder on the house, I like the rotary choppers as they're distinctive, difficult to ignore and deeply unpleasant to be close to, I worked on a plant which had them as Emergency Alert Sounders and you _really _knew about it during a test.


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## MikeK

Jelly said:


> With that in mind, what cable would you generally run to signal back to an alarm in the house?
> 
> I'm getting to the point where I'm ready to regularise the issues I had with my workshop electrics and will be putting in new buried SWA 3 Core & SWA Cat6; whilst I don't have the cash for an alarm installation right now, it would be stupid not to take the chance to run the cabling whilst I have a trench open.



Depending on the length of the run between your shop and house, I would start with 22AWG or 20AWG, or the European equivalent, for sensors. If you're trenching, I would install suitable direct burial conduit and put pull strings in the conduit that you can use later to pull the cables. In my experience, the cost is usually in making the trench, not in the cable that eventually goes in it. Using conduit gives you flexibility for other applications later.

I've designed, installed, commissioned, and maintained intrusion detection systems for sensitive applications for the past 45 years. Without exception, all of the systems use proprietary Premises Control Units (PCU) and software. However, every system used commercially available sensors for the rooms and doors. The sensors are nothing more than switch closures for the PCU, so any sensor that provides the desired response will work. We stopped using impact sensors for glass over 30 years ago because they were prone to nuisance alarms and we used better detection methods inside the area.

A commonly used PIR for my projects is something similar to the Bosch DS938Z. This PIR uses six conductor (three twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the 12VDC power, one pair is for the sensor circuit, and one pair is for the tamper circuit. The twisted pair provides enough isolation, even in some of our most electrically noisy environments. 

The high security switch (HSS), also called a balanced magnetic switch, such as the Interlogix 2707A, is used on all doors and functioning windows. This switch uses four conductor (two twisted pairs) cable. One pair is for the sensor circuit and the other pair is for the tamper circuit.

The PIR and HSS can be programmed at the PCU as either a normally open (NO) or normally closed (NC) condition on alarm. The device manufacturers provide this flexibility to ensure the devices will work with any PCU, even those that use terminating resistors. This flexibility also allows the installer to use a mix of sensor configuration so some are NC and some are NO. This makes it difficult for any intruder to successfully tamper with the wiring in hopes of defeating the sensor. The tamper circuit is always a NC configuration because it provides an indication of a cut cable as Roy mentioned.

If you use PIRs, I strongly recommend disabling the walk-test LED common to all PIRs once you are satisfied the device is functioning properly. This is the red light that comes on as you move around within the sensor's effective zone. Once the device is installed and tested, the light is no longer needed. We are required to disable the LED because it doesn't attract attention to the device and can't be used to determine the dead zones for the device. This feature is controlled by a DIP switch inside the PIR and can be accessed only after pulling the cover off, and triggering the tamper alarm.

These devices aren't cheap, but you should balance the cost of detection and reporting against the cost of the asset. We won't spend a million dollars to protect a hundred dollar asset. Likewise, we won't limit our budget to a hundred dollars to protect a million dollar asset.


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## MARK.B.

Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway


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## MikeK

MARK.B. said:


> Did not know you could disable that red light,will have to take a look at mine . Apart from the security aspect as Mike has pointed out I find the one in my workshop annoying as when you catch a glimpse in the periphery of your vision as it is quite bright you cannot but help to glance toward it even though my brain knows there is no need to look, my eyes do it anyway



The PIRs I specified and installed varied in cost from $25 to $180 each, depending on the manufacturer and features. All had a switch on the device circuit board to disable the LED.


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## MARK.B.

Mine came as part of a kit that cost about £200 around 12 years ago so may or may not have the dip switch but will take a look.


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## Spectric

Also I used dual tech sensors, combined microwave & infra red because they give better coverage and less false alarms. I think some of the sensors can know be programed from the main panel, rather than DIP switches on the actual sensor. 

I will still say that the alarm is your last line of defence, you want strong deterents before they can break in and trigger the alarm. This is a catch 22 situation because if it looks like a fortress then they will believe there are good pickings but if it is not really secure they will break in just to find out. Good lighting and CCTV are sound detterents and single point of access to property can really help, thieves don't like not having a escape route if detected.

How bad is Sheffield these days for thieves, I remember people in the Peak district saying they had it bad because they had Manchester on one side and Sheffield on the other.


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## Fergie 307

You can use the regular six core alarm cable for most things, but work out how many cores you need and buy that, just be aware that most systems are using 12v DC for the system wiring so you will get a drop in voltage over long runs. Should be ok over the distances round your house but if the workshop is some distance away could be a problem. If you have any doubts just cut a piece of cable the maximum length you will need and connect it up experimentally on the bench to make sure it will work. You don't want to install everything only to them find that voltage drop is stopping stuff from working correctly. I have a shed which is at the far end of the garden, about 200 feet from the house and main workshop. Too far away to be included in the other systems. It has mains power so it has its own alarm system. For internet I use a TP Link, sends the signal through the mains cables. It works really well.


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## Stevekane

Well the Ebay £11 WinoMo motorbike alarm arrived and whilst I cannot fit it yet this is how things look. Its a small plastic box perhaps 60mm sq and around 12mm deep, there are no fixing lugs and they supply sticky pads, from one end the wiring emerges, a single arial wire, a short fly lead to connect to a PP9 battery, a pair of 12v power leads, a fly lead to a push fit connecter which connects to the Siren. The Siren is flimsier that I expected, very lightweight plastic, built in fixing bracket, 50mm overall dia,,but I suppose it only has to sit somewhere hidden,,,and make a noise! You also get two car style remote controls, a bit plasticky but with nice clicky buttons, and the batteries were ready fitted.
So today I got the bits out, the instructions are in two languages,,one is english,,,but the instructions are for a completely diffent alarm!,,,ah the joys of buying cheap chinese! Anyway its all so simple to click together the instructions are not required,,so why did they bother? It doesnt have to have the PP9 battery fitted at all if its wired to a bike battery or psu, but I suppose its a back up and it allowed me to put it all together and try it..
I had it all just laying loose on a wooden garden table, press the lock button and you get a fairly loud chirp to tell you its on, tap the table and its Wow Wow Wow,,,louder than I expected, 125db they said but who knows? It was loud enough,,and would be very loud in the dead of night when your out aburgleing! Frantic pressing of the unlock button had it cycling through a range of whoops, sirens, police sirens,,every chirp and beep out there,,,and finally silence,,,try again, press lock and get single chirp,,,go to end of 6ft table and just the lightest tap with my fingernail,,whoop whoop whoop, sirens etc. So its very sensitive, I wonder how it works? Anyway it looks like I will be able to clamp it to the door frame, and run the siren outside, my guess is that it will be sensitive enough to pick up any vibrations around the door and I will have to see if false alarms are an issue. The instructions (for another alarm entirely) say that if one particular button is held down you can adjust the sensitivity,,not sure if it applies to this one,,it has the button though! My neighbour asked what the alarm was, they live 50yards away, so I have to say that so far Im quite pleased with it. Might get it fitted next week and give a short update for anyone interested. 
Steve.


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## Stevekane

Ive fitted the Winomo motorcycle alarm and its very good indeed, I had to make a bracket to hold it to the door frame, and at the moment its running off the PP9 battery but I have an unused Bell Transformer which I will wire it to. Its mounted on the inside of the frame which is made of 2x3 and slight movement of the doors has no effect, but anything more and you get a very loud 3 or 4 seconds worth of sirens, try again and the alarm runs for,,,,well too long to just let it run its course, I think its 30seconds? The sensitivity does appear to be adjustable, 5 levels although I couldn't really tell much difference, maybe to do with what its mounted on? And interestingly the siren seems to cycle through a range of different sounds when its set off, so very effective.
The remote controls work great, Ive not tested the range but its enough for me, and you get a single chirp when locking and a double chirp unlocking.
So it seems to be a great little alarm for a shed, and Im very happy given its features and price, lets hope it lasts!
Steve.


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## danst96

I have been stressing about my shop and this week I decided to try something. In the house we have a wireless Yale alarm system which we set each night and i decided to put a PIR in the shop and see if it would work. My shop is roughly 15-20 meters away from the house and with the PIR mounted on the door it reaches the house. This means if it is triggered in the night it will set the alarm off inside the house alerting us straight away. If you have a wireless alarm system it could be worth a shout.

It also phones you when the alarm goes off so if we are away from the house you will know about it and could potentially act on it.


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## Stevekane

danst96 said:


> I have been stressing about my shop and this week I decided to try something. In the house we have a wireless Yale alarm system which we set each night and i decided to put a PIR in the shop and see if it would work. My shop is roughly 15-20 meters away from the house and with the PIR mounted on the door it reaches the house. This means if it is triggered in the night it will set the alarm off inside the house alerting us straight away. If you have a wireless alarm system it could be worth a shout.
> 
> It also phones you when the alarm goes off so if we are away from the house you will know about it and could potentially act on it.


For anyone with wireless alarms thats got to be worth checking out, perhaps a factor might be the base station location,,I guess they do have one? It might even be worth seeing if the base station could be moved to bring it in range of the shed as well. Certainly in our area social media is awash with Ring doorbell cameras picking up people sneaking around gardens at 3 am, trouble is the pictures are not so clear and they wear hoodies and face masks, no police about to trouble them either, makes you feel a bit better having the alarm.


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## Spectric

Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the driveway and paths. If they are slabs, tarmac or the like it is easy to walk along them quietly, but gravel, shingle or shillies are another story because you will make noise and this can also put the thieves off.


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## Stevekane

Spectric said:


> Something that I don't think has been mentioned is the driveway and paths. If they are slabs, tarmac or the like it is easy to walk along them quietly, but gravel, shingle or shillies are another story because you will make noise and this can also put the thieves off.


Quite right Roy, my situation is that my shed is round in the garden, and nothing to stop theives walking around the back on grass, we have a little terrier and she has 24hrs access to the garden through a “cat flap” and any noise would have her out there barking, and thats the best we can hope for, that noise, my little alarm, the dog barking will scare them off.
Steve.


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## Spectric

What no gates!


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## Stevekane

Spectric said:


> What no gates!


Well only the front gate that cannot be locked, and my concerns have been heightened because we have a lane running along the side of our garden, the undergrowth, brambles and the like took a bashing in the gales a couple of months back and a lot of it has had to be cleared, so people walking by have for the moment a good view into the garden,,thats what prompted me to get the alarm.
Steve.


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## Richard_C

A few things spring to mind. First is that determined professionals will get what they want regardless, the second is that the easy pickings thief can be deterred but maybe not stopped. In either case, if you have a remote alarm to alert you you will feel obliged to 'do something' and that might not have a good outcome. Rushing out in dead of night, whether to a crack-head or a professional team, might not end well for you. Maybe if you are big, fit and determined, but not me at 68 years old. If they take some tools, they take them. The police won't be there for a while, even if they do turn out. Dog thefts are at an all time high, some will like noisy dogs becsue it tells them where to go to steal a dog. So an alarm needs to be noisy and visible to frighten them off. 

So if we can't stop the professionals what can we do to hinder the petty thief?

Back in the days when I carried cameras around on trips I was always bemused by those who had fancy branded Nikon or Canon carry bags. A plain old battered rucksach suited me - never a guarantee but whose are they likely to target? When I travelled for work, some collegues loved to brandish their "Toshiba" laptop bags, I just used a briefcase. One guy I was with walked out of a hotel, man in suit came up to him and said "your taxi sir", helpfully took his toshiba bag and as we got into the taxi it dawned on him that the driver was sitting in the drivers seat, the man who now had his computer was nowhere to be seen. It is relevant - some tools come in fancy branded cases now, ideal if every day you are taking them to and from your van or onto site but I don't do that. If they steal my branded double drill/driver case they get a few bags of miscelleneous nails, the tools are in unremarkalble cupboards. Ok they can find them but not just grab them. I can get my chainsaw out with no effort, but its not hung on a wall under a sign saying "expensive chainsaw look at me". My double garage (which is half garage half workshop) has up and over doors which are easy to secure from inside, just drill through the return flange of the door and into the frame somewhere below the pivot centre and stick a rod, bolt or tentpeg in. Normally there are cars parked tight against them anyway. I'm fastidious about not cleaning the screwed-shut windows at the back, so you can't peer in and go "oooooh look at that". So its just an unwindowed side door, decent locks and of someone does get through and stumble around they will have to open a fair few unlabeled cupboards to assemble a decent haul. They can't see what's in there until they get in, so are more likely to try somewhere else.

I have a few simple timeswitches and if we go away there are lights and a radio coming on and off in different parts of the adjacent but unattached house, inclusing upstairs so you can't see in to check if there really is someone there. We use to live in an area known for its 'just off the motorway' break ins. If we went out for an evening I would leave a Gene Pitney CD (came free with a newspaper) playing on repeat - its an awful noise, we were never burgled aso I still do it to this day if are off to the cinema or whatever (I wish ....seems like forever ago). In my limited expereince, Gene Pitney's voice = 100% deterrent.

If I were a professional it would be different of course but for me its about sensible compromises.


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## Spectric

Stevekane said:


> Well only the front gate that cannot be locked, and my concerns have been heightened because we have a lane running along the side of our garden,


Thats always a concern having any public right of way next to your property, allows people to see to much and the lay of the land.



Richard_C said:


> Back in the days when I carried cameras around on trips I was always bemused by those who had fancy branded Nikon or Canon carry bags. A plain old battered rucksach suited me - never a guarantee but whose are they likely to target? When I travelled for work, some collegues loved to brandish their "Toshiba" laptop bags, I just used a briefcase. One guy I was with walked out of a hotel, man in suit came up to him and said "your taxi sir", helpfully took his toshiba bag and as we got into the taxi it dawned on him that the driver was sitting in the drivers seat, the man who now had his computer was nowhere to be seen. It is relevant - some tools come in fancy branded cases now, ideal if every day you are taking them to and from your van or onto site but I don't do that.


That is so true, any thief will steal stuff if you advertise it and wave it under their nose, and the same applies to people who put their packaging outside to advertise they have just brought a new 200 inch telly, you have just told all the local scum that you have something they want, and maybe even more stuff.


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## Woody2Shoes

I have been known - when having a particularly attractive piece of kit delivered - to (in earshot of the delivery driver) have a 'phone conversation' with a 'mate' to tell him his new gear's arrived and when does he want to drop round and collect it. That and shredding any branded cardboard boxes, rather than putting them stright in the recycling bin. I think that there are people in certain pubs who offer drinks in return for tips on recently delivered goodies.


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## Pallet Fancier

Stevekane said:


> ... we have a little terrier and she has 24hrs access to the garden through a “cat flap” and any noise would have her out there barking, and thats the best we can hope for, that noise, my little alarm, the dog barking will scare them off.
> Steve.



I'd just like to point out that last year has seen an all time high achieved for dog thefts. Depending on the breed and the location, they are either stolen to order for resale, or more commonly they are stolen for use as bait dogs at dog fighting events.

Yes, dog fighting. We didn't evolve past this disgusting "sport" yet. We didn't leave it behind in the 18th century, like many people assume. Still happens, and chances are you have met someone who's attended an evening of such "entertainment" and "had a flutter" as though they were down the races. Except in this case, act one is the warm-up in which an attack dog rips a little terrier's legs off. Then it might disembowel it. Then the terrier finally dies. Act two they might bring in a lab or a collie. Act three, the main event! Two attack dogs! Put your money down, ladies and gents!

I apologise if I've been graphic or dramatic. Actually, I don't. This is a message that needs to get out. The human garbage that runs these shows and attends them are quite active across most of the country, but the police don't have the resources and the media are afraid of making their viewers/readers upset if they report on it too often.

Puppies are stolen, too. Breeding age bitches are stolen to provide puppies. The puppies aren't used in the fights. They're used in training and as food. There was a breeder/trainer openly living in a housing estate near me. Eventually, the screams were noticed, questions were asked, and he realised he was attracting attention. One day his house was empty, and the stinking shed full of small, uneaten ... parts ... was empty, as well. Unfortunately, he wasn't arrested and his animals weren't destroyed so god knows where they are, now.

People, keep your dogs indoors at night, or at any time when you're not home to supervise them, or notice intruders. Dogs get stolen out of back gardens all the time. Terriers, Spaniels, Frenchies, those curly little Bichon Frises, even Labradors and other gun dogs.

And nine times out of ten, it's to use them as bait in dog fights. So no use putting up posters for rewards, because the dog hasn't been "rehomed". It's been minced.

I could tell you stories that would send your hair white if it isn't already.

Please don't give these scumbags the opportunity.

Sorry for preaching. But dogs are not the answer. Some of these swine would actually steal your dog in preference to the power tools!


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## danst96

Pallet Fancier said:


> I'd just like to point out that last year has seen an all time high achieved for dog thefts. Depending on the breed and the location, they are either stolen to order for resale, or more commonly they are stolen for use as bait dogs at dog fighting events.
> 
> Yes, dog fighting. We didn't evolve past this disgusting "sport" yet. We didn't leave it behind in the 18th century, like many people assume. Still happens, and chances are you have met someone who's attended an evening of such "entertainment" and "had a flutter" as though they were down the races. Except in this case, act one is the warm-up in which an attack dog rips a little terrier's legs off. Then it might disembowel it. Then the terrier finally dies. Act two they might bring in a lab or a collie. Act three, the main event! Two attack dogs! Put your money down, ladies and gents!
> 
> I apologise if I've been graphic or dramatic. Actually, I don't. This is a message that needs to get out. The human garbage that runs these shows and attends them are quite active across most of the country, but the police don't have the resources and the media are afraid of making their viewers/readers upset if they report on it too often.
> 
> Puppies are stolen, too. Breeding age bitches are stolen to provide puppies. The puppies aren't used in the fights. They're used in training and as food. There was a breeder/trainer openly living in a housing estate near me. Eventually, the screams were noticed, questions were asked, and he realised he was attracting attention. One day his house was empty, and the stinking shed full of small, uneaten ... parts ... was empty, as well. Unfortunately, he wasn't arrested and his animals weren't destroyed so god knows where they are, now.
> 
> People, keep your dogs indoors at night, or at any time when you're not home to supervise them, or notice intruders. Dogs get stolen out of back gardens all the time. Terriers, Spaniels, Frenchies, those curly little Bichon Frises, even Labradors and other gun dogs.
> 
> And nine times out of ten, it's to use them as bait in dog fights. So no use putting up posters for rewards, because the dog hasn't been "rehomed". It's been minced.
> 
> I could tell you stories that would send your hair white if it isn't already.
> 
> Please don't give these scumbags the opportunity.
> 
> Sorry for preaching. But dogs are not the answer. Some of these swine would actually steal your dog in preference to the power tools!


I'd actually support capital punishment for this.


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## Stevekane

Oh dear, well the last few posts make for dreadful reading thats for sure and I wouldnt wish to contradict anything thats been said,,the police have however said just a few days ago that whilst there are lots of social media reports of dogs being stolen its seemingly not backed up by reports being made to the police who said that dog theft reports are low and have not increased this year,,? But indeed we are mindful of the little dog, thankfully she is not very brave but barks a lot,,she expects me to be brave I suppose!
Steve.


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## Stevekane

Many thanks everyone for your input, its all very good practicle stuff, but I didnt know it was being posted, I wonder why it doesnt apear in the daily digest?
As to my little alarm, well Im constantly impressed by it, the range of the remote controls is at least 40yds, no false alarms so far even with a bit of wind, though tonights gales will be a good test, and demonstrating it to my kids it seems that anymore than a light touch has the alarm warning you off. For what is a very minimal cost I feel Ive got somthing that will at least make a lot of noise and hopefully scare off the less sophisticated thief, if I can stop them wrecking my doors I will be very pleased indeed.
Steve.


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## Gardener

Sorry to hear your news.
Hope what ever you decide to do re security works and keeps the thieves out if they try again ...
Made me think about my security...


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## angelboy

I did something similar to this on my workshop with a decent padlock.


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## Spectric

Pallet Fancier said:


> Some of these swine would actually steal your dog in preference to the power tools!


That says it all, they have so little between the ears that they cannot see any use for a tool, it could be that a tool is associated with work which I dare say is something else they like to avoid.


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