# Startrite 352S Bandsaw motor conversion



## Bluekingfisher (16 Mar 2009)

Can anyone assist Please?. I have just bought a Startrite 352s 3 phase bandsaw (ebay). Reacting without thinking I suppose ( I got it at a reasonable price) I presumed I could change the existing 3 phase motor for a single phase one. Can this be done. I don't want to go down the inverter route. Any assistance will be much appreciated. David


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## Neil (16 Mar 2009)

The reasonable price wasn't £257 by any chance? :lol: If its the one I'm thinking of, I had my eye on it too. It went a bit high for me as I have £130 shipping to consider on top of the re-motoring, but you got a nice bargain. See this thread for help on re-motoring, where you'll find a link to an ebay seller who will have the bits you need. The suitable single-phase motor was about £100 IIRC. Let us know how you get on.

Cheers,
Neil

Oh, and welcome to the forum by the way!


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## flh801978 (16 Mar 2009)

Hi David
If your existing motor is a dual voltage type then with an inverter ( say £ 150) your sorted + you have variable spped
Changing the motor and all the switch gear will cost you much more +time and effort
If you need to talk pm me and i'll give you my number
I have done 4 machines in my workshop

Ian


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## CNC Paul (16 Mar 2009)

David,

Try these people, they are very helpful http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Drives-Direct- ... idZ2QQtZkm


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## jhwbigley (16 Mar 2009)

i was told that if a motors dual voltage, it can be converted by changing the capacitor? :-s 

John


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## 9fingers (16 Mar 2009)

jhwbigley":2ioaa69i said:


> i was told that if a motors dual voltage, it can be converted by changing the capacitor? :-s
> 
> John



Possibly best not to take any more electrical advice from that source John!

There are no capacitors associated with a 3 phase motor so nothing to change.

Bob


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## dickm (16 Mar 2009)

Depending which model it is, changing the motor isn't <that> much hassle. My 352 is the early sort with the switchgear built into the column, so it needed direct replacement switchgear (danfoss, if I remember right) but you could always stick a new starter switch on the outside and blank off the holes in the column if you didn't mind losing the interlocks. I tried to do it "properly", inside the column. But with the later models with microswitch safety and external starter, it's pretty much of a doddle, since the motor is a very basic foot mounted sort and all the wires are already in place. You just need an appropriate motor and nvr switch.


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## jhwbigley (16 Mar 2009)

9fingers":1ae5sfiq said:


> jhwbigley":1ae5sfiq said:
> 
> 
> > i was told that if a motors dual voltage, it can be converted by changing the capacitor? :-s
> ...


 :lol: 

i don't know where i got the capacitor bit from. but a motor rewind company did tell me that if a 3 phase motor had 6 terminals then they could convert it? :-s 

John


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## 9fingers (16 Mar 2009)

John,

If it has 6 terminals then yes you can convert it from 415 volt to 240 volt but it still needs 3 phase power. 240 volt 3 phase is what most inverters provide So if you want to run a three phase machine from a single phase mains supply via common inverters you need a 6 terminal machine with something like 240/415v on the rating plate.

Bob


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## jhwbigley (16 Mar 2009)

thanks Bob, 
thats made things clearer, and glad i bought a new motor instead. 

John


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## Bluekingfisher (17 Mar 2009)

Thanks for your swift and detailed replies gents. I now have something to work towards although when I'll now get round to it is in question. I already have a crib sheet of "jobs to do" before I can play but I'll let you know the result of my labours.
Thank you too for the details of suitable contacts for motor replacement. I will contact them for availability but if not too much bother a further piece of advice is sought. I was going to upgrade to a 2 or 3HP motor to maximise the use of the available 300mm under guides cut. I am purely a DIYer but thought that cutting some logs maybe fun and an economical way of sourcing timber. Would 2 HP be enough power ( I understand that a 3HP motor would need its own supply).
Hi Neil yes it was the £257 saw from this Sunday. I went to £266 and that was my limit too. I contacted the chap and he is going to deliver to Huntingdon for £100. Cheaper than van rental or courier. Thanks for the welcome too, much appreciated.


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## Maverick.uk (17 Mar 2009)

Bluekingfisher":1swavnb3 said:


> Hi Neil yes it was the £257 saw from this Sunday. I went to £266 and that was my limit too. .



Seems like alot of us on here are keen watchers and in the market for a bandsaw! Yes me too......

Cheers

Mav


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## Doug B (17 Mar 2009)

Bluekingfisher":29wu7jc3 said:


> ( I understand that a 3HP motor would need its own supply).



I don`t think that is so, i use to have a 3HP compressor which worked off a standard 3 pin plug.
It didn`t like extension leads though :shock: :lol: :lol:


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## Bluekingfisher (18 Mar 2009)

Thanks Doug, I think I;ll take the plunge and go for the 3HP. Can't have too much power I suppose?


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## paulm (18 Mar 2009)

3HP is fine on a 13amp plug in my experience having just upgraded myself. The motor supplier warned that it may blow a 13amp fuse under heavy load and therefore recommended a 16amp supply, but in practice so far it's been fine.........

Cheers, Paul


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## Bluekingfisher (18 Mar 2009)

Thanks Paul, I think the extra grunt a 3HP motor gives is worth the ocassional inconvenience of tripping a fuse may cause. It is only for DIY use and will rarely be subject to heavy or prolonged use.


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## Bluekingfisher (19 Mar 2009)

Gents,

My 352S arrived late last night and at a quick glance appears to be in good condition overall. I am not familiar with the Startrite bandsaws but my eye caught the blade guide system, in particular the thrust bearing, or lack of. There just seems to be a small fixed post about 1/4" behind the blade. Is this normal? Is it worth or can I indeed upgrade the upper guide system. I recall reading an american woodwork mag some years ago which spoke about guide upgrades. Does anyone know of any suppliers? 

I don't have an operators manual for it any ideas where I could source one?

Any advice would be much appreciated.


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## paulm (19 Mar 2009)

If the blade guide system is the same as my 351 it will have solid blocks either side of the blade and a thrust rod (about 1/4" dia) behind the blade, top and bottom.

Although it looks primitive it's very effective and preferable I think to many of the low to mid market bearing based systems.

Set the solid blocks (mehanite I think ?, which are self lubricating, a fraction away from the sides of the blade (width of a piece of normal/thin paper is about right), and set the thrust rods (they are carbide tipped so pretty hardwearing) a mil' or so back from the back of the blade, and give it a go.

Not much else to the machine really, very simple but built very ruggedly and should go on and on......

Cheers, Paul


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## beech1948 (19 Mar 2009)

Bluekingfisher,

Your Startrite 352S was designed to use the solid triangular blocks made from Metanite. You can cheaply buy these from ALT. If you need the address then let me know.

If the blocks have a bit of wear they can be reshaped by using the "Scary Sharp" method to flatten them. When setting them up just place a piece of office paper round the blade and adjust the blocks upto the paper and then tighten before removing paper.

The puysh rod at the rear can also be had from ALT. Its a steel rod with a carbide tip. Adjust so that its about 1/16th of an inch behind the stationary blade. Works well.

Bearing kits are available. The best are from Carter in the USA. The Axminster replacement kit is OK ish but not much good.

If you call Record they will tell you that the Startrite bandsaw was best with the Metanite blocks due to the sheer size of the surface area they provide compared to the reduced bearing surface of the bearing guides.

Anyway mine are great. I flattened them about 6 years ago after getting my 352 and replaced the rear thrust bearing rod. They seem to work great even when deep cutting 8inches of hardwood.

regards
Alan


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## Racers (19 Mar 2009)

Hi,

I will second what Chisel said, its a simple system that works very well, don't waste money on new guides, spend the money on blades.


Pete


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## Bluekingfisher (20 Mar 2009)

Thanks gents, that has set my mind at rest. One always wonders when they purchase a second hand machine whether of not all the original bits and bobs are in place.

Thanks too Alan for the ALT contact details for spares, another cursory look late last night revealed the bottom wheel tyre has a grove around the entire circumference of the tyre. I should imagine caused by a poorly adjusted wheel/blade where it has gouged the tyre away. I'm sure I'll find a few more defects when I get a chance to give it a good look over.

It is very satisfying and reassuring to know that people out there are passionate and prepared to spend there time helping others like me. Thanks again.

David


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## apn (20 Mar 2009)

If you are still looking for a manual PM me your email address as I have a scanned copy somebody on the forum sent to me.


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## Bluekingfisher (21 Apr 2009)

Gents,

As part of this string I have received a lot of valuable information on the issues I have identified with my Startrite 352S bandsaw. I have decided to go for a 1.5HP motor for several reasons, mainly due to the size of motor frame size in relation to arbor pulley size, belt size etc and the fact that I have a newish 1.5 hp motor and suitable switch gear from another machine which will fit straight in ( with the inclusion of a flange face mounting plate) I will have to for go the anticipated and hoped for power but the engineering issues proved to big a deal. The original motor is a type 90 frame with a 19mm drive shaft. I have found out that motors above 1.5hp have a type 90 frame but this also means that they have a 24mm arbor. This would mean sourcing a pulley with a 24mm drive shaft hole and a 40mm o/s dia pulley size which isn't possible because that would allow enough "meat " left for the pulley belt recess. This would then mean mucking around with pulley sizes to attain the desired blade speed, not to mention the unusually small and narrow pulley belt. So as I say it will have to be 1 1.5hp motor for the time being at least.

Having got my head around d that issue the next thing to deal with is the bandwheel tyre which I mentioned earlier. The tyre on the lower wheel has the front 1/8" missing from the entire circumference of the wheel which I assume will NEED to be rectified. I contacted a couple of dealers who specialize in startrite machines who informed me that the only way to solve the dilemma is to purchase an entire wheel with attachedtyre as they are not sold separately. At £74.85 this seems an expensive way or replacing tyres, particularly as I was intending to replace both tyres to ensure an even wear. Has anyone overcome this problem?? I have also noted that Rockler woodworking from the USA sell urethane tyres to much approval from their US customers. Has anyone experience of such tyres?? One other place I found that sold tyres closer to home is Rutlands woodworking, they sell individual rubber tyres, could this be an option?? ans will the rubber tyres need to be glued on and with which type of glue and if they are suitable at all. So many question so any input would be greatly received fellas.


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## Digit (21 Apr 2009)

Can't help you on that specific machine kingfisher but I can give you some general info that might be of help. My old BS had no tyres so I made my own from a sheet of 1/8 inch thk sheet rubber cut to an appropriate width.
I cut the mating ends to a long taper to increase the area of glue contact and to reduce any ridge that the band might have to deal with.
I glued the ends together with super glue then used impact adhesive on the wheel where the jointed ends of the tyre would sit, when the impact adhesive was 'set' I simply stretched the tyre into place on the wheel rim.
They've been there now for some years with no sign of problems.

Roy.


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## Bluekingfisher (21 Apr 2009)

Many thanks digit, where did you get the raw sheet rubber from ?


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## Digit (21 Apr 2009)

My usual source as indicated in my thread on Planes! My local re-cycling centre. :lol: 
Send me the size you need and I'll see if the sheet is large enough if you want to have a crack at it yourself.

Roy.


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## Bluekingfisher (21 Apr 2009)

Very resourceful Roy, I do enjoy rumaging through skips myself but it never crossed my mind to make my own. I'll have a look at the wheel when I get home tonight and measure it. It's a 14" dia wheel but not sure off hand of the width but should imagine about 1 1/4" or there abouts. Thanks for your help.

David


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## Night Train (21 Apr 2009)

It is possible to convert some 3ph motors to run on 1ph by using capacitors to phase shift the supply to the other two coils. However, you get so much power loss that it isn't really worth the effort.

I would go the 'easy for me*' route of fitting a 1ph motor and switch gear.



*Means shouting: 'Dad? Have you got a 3hp 1ph motor? and what else do I need to buy and what do I do?'. :wink:


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## Racers (21 Apr 2009)

Hi,

My 352 has the front 1/8 missing from it, its was caused by the guard for the exposed blade catching it when it was fully up. I have cut off the section that catches so its not a problem any more :wink: it still works fine, but may be I should replace it, any rubber left Digit?


Pete


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## Digit (21 Apr 2009)

A bloody great sheet of it Pete! If you want some let me know the size as it's a weird shape, then I can check to see if I can cut what you want.

Roy.


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## paulm (21 Apr 2009)

Bluekingfisher":252q0ad3 said:


> Gents,
> 
> I have decided to go for a 1.5HP motor for several reasons, mainly due to the size of motor frame size in relation to arbor pulley size, belt size etc and the fact that I have a newish 1.5 hp motor and suitable switch gear from another machine which will fit straight in ( with the inclusion of a flange face mounting plate) I will have to for go the anticipated and hoped for power but the engineering issues proved to big a deal. The original motor is a type 90 frame with a 19mm drive shaft. I have found out that motors above 1.5hp have a type 90 frame but this also means that they have a 24mm arbor. This would mean sourcing a pulley with a 24mm drive shaft hole and a 40mm o/s dia pulley size which isn't possible because that would allow enough "meat " left for the pulley belt recess. This would then mean mucking around with pulley sizes to attain the desired blade speed, not to mention the unusually small and narrow pulley belt. So as I say it will have to be 1 1.5hp motor for the time being at least.



It's definately much easier to put on a 1 1/2 hp motor and if you already have one to hand then it makes complete sense to try that first and see how you get on.

Having said that, the 3hp motor I replaced with on mine makes a huge difference on deeper ripping. The increased arbour size isn't an issue, the motor supplier just sent a pulley with taperlock to fit for another tenner. 

The pulley was a bit larger and had a deeper groove but wasn't a problem to fit, just eased a mil or two chamfer round the outside edge on the grinder and it fitted easily. 

The old drive belt was too narrow section for the extra power though and chewed up quite quickly, so replaced with the smallest size one I could find in Halfords which was about the same length but much meatier and it has made a big difference and stopped the slipping under load I was getting with the old one.

Turned out to be worth fitting a 16a supply in the end for the larger motor as once the belt slipping was sorted the startup started to blow the 13a fuses after all and a C type mcb on a dedicated 16a supply sorted that out.

So sounds like a lot of complications, but really quite straightforwards, and the pulley, belt and new circuit and mcb probably only added another £30 or so to the £100 for the motor, and made it all work very well indeed.

No need though if you can do everything you need to using the smaller motor, but may be worth looking see if you can fit a meatier belt anyway if you find you get a bit of slippage rather than just the motor slowing under load.

Cheers, Paul


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## Bluekingfisher (22 Apr 2009)

I had a look at the wheel Pete and the return on the top of the blade guard could well be the prime suspect for the tyre damage. When I bought the saw the damaged wheel was on the bottom, of course it could have been changed as the top wheel is adjusted more to allow tracking to be carried out and I assume the "static" lower wheel if damaged would pose less problems when the machine is running. I did note too that when I extended the blade guard up about six inches it came in contact with the tyre. I am hoping this is because the saw is not yet set up and the distance between guard and tyre maybe enlarged when the adjacent parts are set and tensioned. Fingers crossed


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## Racers (22 Apr 2009)

Hi, Bluekingfisher

Do you want me to take a photo of my modified guard? its a simple bit of work with a hacksaw to cut a small sliver off.


Pete


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## Racers (22 Apr 2009)

Hi,

Pics of my modified blade guard





Close up 




You can seel the two notches at the bottom of the guardthe second one has been extended to allow it to fully retract without catching the tyre.

Pete


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## Bluekingfisher (23 Apr 2009)

Thanks Pete for the photos. Looking at it, it would appear that the guard is the cause of the tyre damage on my saw too. The sliver you have cut away is about the same width as the groove on my tyre. I wonder if startrite are aware of the problem or perhaps we are just unlucky . 

I looked at mine again last night too and noticed there would appear to be a means of adjusting the guard in and out by a loosening a nut near the guides, or does this not alleviate the problem?


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## Racers (23 Apr 2009)

Hi, Blurkingfisher

Mine had a stop fitted (not by startrite) so you couldn't do the full depth of cut, even so it had some of the guard removed. you can't adjust the guard away from the wheel it runs in a slot formed by the door and upper cab.

Pete


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## Bluekingfisher (23 Apr 2009)

Thanks Pete, Looks like a hacksaw job then although seems a bit of a design flaw though.

Thanks for your time

David


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