# Structural doubt for tool stand



## ajs (6 Oct 2022)

I'm at the concept stage of planning out a permanent stand/drawers/cupboards for my scroll saw. After some thought about whether to go for wheels or adjustable feet I decided I'm fitting both so I can jack it up to a solid footing when in position. The feet are a none issue but I'm slightly dubious as to the caster placement.

The issue is my proposed wheels won't quite fit under the 3x2 frame I have pencilled in. Well, they would but then the screws are within 1/4” of the edges. However there is a sheet of 18mm OSB forming the bottom of the cabinet between the two. What are people's thoughts on putting half the castor on the OSB only, I've attached a sketch of what I mean and an overall sketch for context - the wheels are inside the bottom beams front and back, half attached to the side beams above. Estimated weight of the unit fully loaded is around the 100kg mark.


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## Jameshow (6 Oct 2022)

I think you will be fine. We made a simalar bench for our men's shed and it's been fine. However the cheap castors haven't so buy quality ones preferably 100mm in diameter.


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## robgul (7 Oct 2022)

I agree with James - but what about just fixing 4 small blocks inside the frame above the wheel plates, glued and screwed to the base rails - then you have a bit more support and use a longer screw through the wheel plate.
AND - again per James - from experience don't use wheels less than about 100mm in diameter


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## Jameshow (7 Oct 2022)

robgul said:


> I agree with James - but what about just fixing 4 small blocks inside the frame above the wheel plates, glued and screwed to the base rails - then you have a bit more support and use a longer screw through the wheel plate.
> AND - again per James - from experience don't use wheels less than about 100mm in diameter


Or four offcuts 3x2 say 6" long with 45° cut on each end screwed into the side rails.


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## robgul (7 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Or four offcuts 3x2 say 6" long with 45° cut on each end screwed into the side rails.


Precisely what I meant . . . although the angle cuts could be classed as luxuries!


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## Jameshow (7 Oct 2022)

robgul said:


> Precisely what I meant . . . although the angle cuts could be classed as luxuries!


Just polished your suggestion. 

How are the bikes? Any new ones?!!


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## Ttrees (7 Oct 2022)

Looks very complicated for a scroll saw, without seemingly for anything to be gained?
Not sure whether you plan on sitting down,or even just standing closer,
should that be the case, consider room for legs, or if standing , then room for feet to save stooping .
Have you considered welding up something to save on space?


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## robgul (7 Oct 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Just polished your suggestion.
> 
> How are the bikes? Any new ones?!!


Not sure what I had when you came here - now have 2 off Van Nic Ti (tourer & road), PlanetX carbon road and Boardman Adv "motorcycle" - ebike with Fazua system


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## ajs (9 Oct 2022)

robgul said:


> I agree with James - but what about just fixing 4 small blocks inside the frame above the wheel plates, glued and screwed to the base rails - then you have a bit more support and use a longer screw through the wheel plate.



The whole unit is only 500mm wide, between frames it around 350mm. May as well go for a full width beam. That does eat into cupboard space and look a bit odd. What about slinging the second beam underneath the base, see the pic. That would also provide an additional tie keeping front and back beams together but I don't think it's really needed. If that beam is 3x2 it'll need mitering and a recess carving to clear the wheel. My gut feel is that would work but seems a slightly odd design.


robgul said:


> AND - again per James - from experience don't use wheels less than about 100mm in diameter


Have to make compromises there, I'm thinking 75mm, along these lines: 75mm Polyurethane Fixed Casters (RED PU) - Heavy Duty - Furniture, Appliance & Equipment Wheels by Bulldog Castors - Max 300Kg Per Set : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools I don't want _too_ much ground clearance between the wheels and the bottom beams, it's extra height to be jacked up on the adjustable feet which is where it spend most of the time in use as least. Those wheels give about 35mm clearance which seems the right sort of figure to me.


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## ajs (9 Oct 2022)

Ttrees said:


> Looks very complicated for a scroll saw, without seemingly for anything to be gained?
> Not sure whether you plan on sitting down,or even just standing closer,
> should that be the case, consider room for legs, or if standing , then room for feet to save stooping .


I'm open to suggestions for simplification but I don't see that much scope for saving space. This is a Diamond 25" saw, almost a metre long. I've added a CAD drawing of my initial thoughts below - it looks less chunky drawn to scale than my rough sketch.

Given the area occupied by the saw it seems the only only real space saving is making good use of underneath for storage: shelves or just a couple of cupboards would obviously be simpler but a couple of drawers are possibly more effective use of space. Adding weight to the unit will help with vibration which is one area where Diamonds are not the best but I think adding up the wood used I have more than enough in that regard.


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## Jacob (9 Oct 2022)

One sack trolley and you can move all/any of the machines in your shop and other stuff too, except for cast iron biggies


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## Jameshow (9 Oct 2022)

How about the ones listed on here?


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## Jacob (9 Oct 2022)

Jacob said:


> One sack trolley and you can move all/any of the machines in your shop and other stuff too, except for cast iron biggies


Can't help thinking you are over thinking here!
Seems to me you just need to make a sturdy but normal 4 leg table of the right dimensions.
Say 3" square legs and 2"x6" aprons between and a heavy top - bit of a fire door would be good for heavy top.
If you want to store things make a box to slide under.
Castors could make the the thing inherently wobbly or prone to vibration and best avoided.
Depending on the floor you should be able to just drag it to another position - they only weigh 25kg it says. If not then a sack trolley much more useful than castors.




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Diamond Saw






www.scrollsaws.com




Machine is bolted at corners so your 6 legs are unnecessary as there are only 4 fixing points
Un level floor you just need a wedge under one foot.
If you want an inherently stable table you could look at splaying the legs so that the top would fit neatly under the machine but the footprint would be longer and wider. Some clever joinery would be needed e.g. like a splay legged sawhorse with a wide enough top to hold your machine.
A large sheet being cut might need more weight below especially at the back, so perhaps a rail here to hold a few bricks.
PS your drawing shows 19 components, dozens of joints (i.e. wobbly!) plus board. A table with apron would be 8 components plus top.
A wide saw horse design as suggested above would be just 5 pieces with 4 joints and my first choice! I'll post a photo tomorrow.
PPS if you do use castors you only need two at the back. Better stability. You then add suitable slots to the structure so you can slot in 2 loose long handles in the front end and wheel it all about like a wheel barrow. But I wouldn't bother.


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## Jacob (10 Oct 2022)

Jacob said:


> Can't help thinking you are over thinking here!
> Seems to me you just need to make a sturdy but normal 4 leg table of the right dimensions.
> Say 3" square legs and 2"x6" aprons between and a heavy top - bit of a fire door would be good for heavy top.
> If you want to store things make a box to slide under.
> ...


Sturdy table for a heavy machine. Off cuts and reclaimed bits n bobs. Only made it last week and not bolted machine on yet, but will be very easy to move with a sack trolley and much steadier without castors. Something similar with a scroll saw would do, with a bit of table space under it for while fiddling about with bits, blades, pencils etc






Saw stool in front - same design scaled up for a lathe stand. Old joist top. Solid ply fire doors are cheap and good for these sorts of worktops
Very stable. Splayed legs can't rack. Really good for heavy and vibrating stuff etc.






How to make a saw horse. They are much stronger than you might expect - watch the vid to the end! If you want to adapt to make cupboard space or add shelves etc I'd do it as a second phase after getting the structure sorted, rather than trying to design it in.


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