# Choice of timber



## GrahamIreland (17 Aug 2020)

Hi guys, was looking for some input on a good choice of timber for outdoors, seating, decking and trim on my steel boat. I had chosen southern yellow timber for this, but have discovered over time it has gone an awful nutty brown colour. I had one coat of Osmo uv protection on it.

Anyway, would like something in the mild yellow range like an ash, would this hold up outdoors?

Thanks

Graham


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## MikeG. (17 Aug 2020)

Osmo UV specifically says in its Data Sheet that it isn't for horizontal surfaces. It really was the wrong finish for those tasks.

No, ash is no use for those jobs either. I can't think of a pale timber that would be suitable, frankly.


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## GrahamIreland (17 Aug 2020)

Why is ash not suitable do you think?


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## MikeG. (17 Aug 2020)

It's not a durable timber.


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## GrahamIreland (19 Aug 2020)

Larch?


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## Trevanion (19 Aug 2020)

Iroko without a doubt in my mind.


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## Mike Jordan (19 Aug 2020)

I don't know of a light coloured timber for this job but will happily second the nomination of Iroko.


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## GrahamIreland (19 Aug 2020)

Yes the teak timbers would weather well I'm sure, but these are part functional part decorative, so a mild timber would go better with the paintwork. I'm also curious to try out different timbers, so I ordered a sample of Siberian Larch from EBay..

But I thought ash would be quite strong, don't they make tools and table tops with it?


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## MikeG. (19 Aug 2020)

"Strong" and "durable" are two very different things.


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## Droogs (19 Aug 2020)

i would suggest any of the following if you can get them:

Opepe - _Nauclea diderrichii_ - used in sea defenses
Afzelia - _Afzelia quanzensis_
Umbila - _Pterocarpus angolensis_


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## El Barto (19 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> Larch?



Larch is used for a lot of outdoor applications and will probably serve you well. Ash is incredibly strong but prone to rot and insect attack.

Have a look also at oak, iroko, douglas fir and western red cedar. 

Larch, douglas fir, red cedar and iroko are very common so should be reasonably priced.


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## MikeG. (19 Aug 2020)

Cedar is most definitely not suitable for seating if it isn't supported fully along its length. It is a soft, soft timber, and not terribly strong. I'd say this rules it out of contention as a deck material, too.


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## El Barto (19 Aug 2020)

It's used in decking all the time


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## MikeG. (19 Aug 2020)

Decking you look at, or decking you walk on? Because I can't see it lasting long for the latter.


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## topchippyles (19 Aug 2020)

Yew every time for me and its classed as a softwood but harder than most hardwoods


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## clogs (19 Aug 2020)

I've always been happy with Sikkens products for outdoor protection....easy to apply and not dif to recoat after a year or two....the product I used was more oily than plasticky n def not varnish....soaks in well.....
what about Parana PIne.....think they used to make masts out of it...????


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## Doug71 (19 Aug 2020)

As soon as the word boat is mentioned I think Iroko and a few coats of marine varnish.


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## GrahamIreland (19 Aug 2020)

Has anyone ever experienced the discolouration I saw with the southern yellow pine. Starts out lovely, but within a summer it tarnished to brown. As I said I only did one coat of Osmo uv oil. Didn't expect it to turn so much..


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## Trevanion (19 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> Has anyone ever experienced the discolouration I saw with the southern yellow pine. Starts out lovely, but within a summer it tarnished to brown. As I said I only did one coat of Osmo uv oil. Didn't expect it to turn so much..



Practically every softwood turns brown/orange in UV light. Light-coloured woods tend to go darker with time, dark-coloured woods tend to go lighter.


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## GrahamIreland (22 Aug 2020)

Would Oak turn black when placed next to steel that is painted?

thanks


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## Droogs (22 Aug 2020)

Eventually yes, especially if they ever get wet


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## GrahamIreland (25 Aug 2020)

Got a Siberian larch sample in the post which looks promising..


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## clogs (25 Aug 2020)

Graham I would say yes.....thats why u should use brass or st/steel fixings in Oak.....
it;s the Tannin.....
normal steel just rots in Oak I have found.....esp outside.....


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## GrahamIreland (31 Aug 2020)

Would this larch last outdoors at all without any treatment? Or is there a best finish for this,

I have osmo poly-x clear or one with a white stain to it, or a uv protection osmo...


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## MikeG. (31 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> I hav.........a uv protection osmo...



We've covered this already, Graham:



MikeG. said:


> Osmo UV specifically says in its Data Sheet that it isn't for horizontal surfaces. It really was the wrong finish for those tasks.


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## Trevanion (31 Aug 2020)

This boat is in seawater, correct?


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## topchippyles (31 Aug 2020)

Larch wood be fine in saltwater


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## GrahamIreland (31 Aug 2020)

To be fair, I don't think we have Mike. As this now is a different timber, and Im not sure I really accept that Osmo is not for horizontal surfaces. For a start, the Oslo transparent, with a white pigment is recommeded for floors, and a description of how to apply it is on the website, clearly showing them applying it on floor boards,

So Im just asking for a correct or best treatment for Larch which I am now using, I have various places I'd like to use it both interior and exterior. Exterior as hand rails, interior as steps in, as a thick door trim, and possibly for cladding the inside wall. I may even do a scorched wood for this,

But no, this is a boat on rivers, so fresh water. I read description on the timber yards website that Siberian Larch can even be left untreated, but thought it best to ask in here first.

Thanks


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## AJB Temple (31 Aug 2020)

You need to go on a boat renovation forum. There is a reason why high end boat yards use teak (and similar substitutes like Iroko) for decking. Oak, love it as I do, is totally unsuitable in conjunction with steel. 

Pine. Of any description. No. Thrice no.


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## MikeG. (31 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> To be fair, I don't think we have Mike. As this now is a different timber, and Im not sure I really accept that Osmo is not for horizontal surfaces......



I'm an architect. I specify these sorts of things, and I have to check their suitability for the intended purpose before I so do. I specified a lot of Osmo UV protection oil in a sheltered outdoor location in a building I did 8 or 10 years ago, and had a long conversation with the technical department of OSMO at the time. Now, you can believe me, or you can go through the process of talking to OSMO yourself directly. The thing is though Graham, I am right, and I know I am right. I'm not making this stuff up. Your choice.....

Oh, and it is nothing to do with the timber. It was horizontal surfaces that was forbidden, irrespective of the timber.


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## MikeG. (31 Aug 2020)

Here you are:



_*UV-Protection Oils are recommended only for vertically structured timber (drip angle min. 10º) to enable the rain to drip off rather than stay on the wood's surface for prolonged lengths of time.*_
From Osmo's website, second bullet point under "tips".


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## Trevanion (31 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> To be fair, I don't think we have Mike. As this now is a different timber, and Im not sure I really accept that Osmo is not for horizontal surfaces. For a start, the Oslo transparent, with a white pigment is recommeded for floors, and a description of how to apply it is on the website, clearly showing them applying it on floor boards,



Mike is talking about the Osmo *UV protection oil* specifically, which is not to be used on horizontal surfaces.

Larch is fine unfinished externally as it will just silver up and offer its own protection and you may get 10 years or more out of it.


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## GrahamIreland (31 Aug 2020)

Thanks all, Think I'll lay them horizontally and apply uv protection oil from Osmo, like Mike suggested.

night,


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## Trevanion (31 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> Thanks all, Think I'll lay them horizontally and apply uv protection oil from Osmo, like Mike suggested.



Mike suggested the *complete opposite* of that, UV Protection Oil *IS NOT *suitable for horizontal (flat) surfaces. I've seen what can happen myself, the finish goes all flaky, water damaged and looks terrible.


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## MikeG. (31 Aug 2020)

GrahamIreland said:


> Thanks all, Think I'll lay them horizontally and apply uv protection oil from Osmo, like Mike suggested.
> 
> night,



You need to go back and read properly what I wrote, and look at the Osmo link.


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## Doug71 (1 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> You need to go back and read properly what I wrote, and look at the Osmo link.



I think GrahamIreland was only joking about his plans.........


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## MikeG. (1 Sep 2020)

Doug71 said:


> I think GrahamIreland was only joking about his plans.........



I hope so, but try as I might, I'm not seeing it.


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## squib (1 Sep 2020)

Yacht varnish is your friend, you can almost use any timber , except yellow pine, just carefully apply 10 or 12 coats of superior yacht varnish rubbed down with wet and dry between each coat and make sure all your guest remove their shoes.......or use teak, which if your crew scrub daily with salt water will take a most pleasing pale colour.
As a little saying from the boatyard, the 3 most useless things on a boat are....
A wheelbarrow,
An umbrella,
And a naval officer......
Oops..
Hat, coat etc...


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## lexi (1 Sep 2020)

Problem with most of the woods mentioned is that they are kiln dried, so that they can be used indoors. They dry the bejesus out of the wood which is not ideal if you are using it outside. European Larch air dried is one of the best woods. Most of the Larch sold is Hybrid with Japanese Larch. You can get 2 types of Iroko here at sawmills. Dark and light. First pic is Euro Larch. Second is a garden seat in Iroko.


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## Steve Blackdog (1 Sep 2020)

There’s a larch plantation behind where I live. They had to cut it down due to disease.

It is the traditional wood for making farm gates. The guy with the plantation sold several miles of the larch for railings. Doesn’t need finishing with anything as naturally very oily.

In days of yore, Larch was also the preferred timber for boat making as it is straight grained and mainly free of knots. This makes me think it is the perfect wood for your application.

My only warning is that it is a b*gger for splitting down the grain, so treat it with care. I was given some beautifully grained larch pieces for guitar making, but the router didn’t like it at all. 

here’s a little piece I used.


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## topchippyles (1 Sep 2020)

Steve Blackdog said:


> There’s a larch plantation behind where I live. They had to cut it down due to disease.
> 
> It is the traditional wood for making farm gates. The guy with the plantation sold several miles of the larch for railings. Doesn’t need finishing with anything as naturally very oily.
> 
> ...


Brilliant all round durable timber.I sell a fair bit of it as waney edge cladding.


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