# Looking for guidance...



## Zeddedhed (30 Jun 2015)

Any of you who have seen any of my (few and far between) projects or WIPS will know that when it comes to finishing my entire repertoire consists of "sand to 150 grit, two, three or four (for special occasions) coats of Tung Oil and then Beeswax."

I've almost managed to convince myself that this is indeed the best finish for any and all projects.

Of course, I KNOW that this isn't true, but I also KNOW that I don't know a damned thing about the dark art of finishing.

So, can anyone point me in the direction of a decent, up to date, UK centric book on the subject.

If there is a 'definitive tome', in much the same way as Keith Rowleys book is the de-facto guide for new turners I'd love to know.

Otherwise it's Tung Oil and Beeswax for the rest of my natural woodworking life.


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## Zeddedhed (1 Jul 2015)

No takers?


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## MIGNAL (1 Jul 2015)

Progress on to Danish Oil, preferably one with a resin. Coloron is decent, Liberon finishing Oil is also very similar. 
This starts to give you a choice on the type or_ level _of finish, matte, semi gloss or full on gloss. 
Sanding with 150 G is far too low for Oil. Oil not only pops the grain but it also pops the scratches and 150 G is scratchy scratchy time. You need to take it up to 400G, going through the grits, always sanding with the grain, landing and taking off like an aeroplane. Then apply your Danish Oil and proceed to wipe it all off. In reality it's impossible to wipe it all off without resorting to thinners. The more coats you put on the glossier it will become. For a full gloss you may need as many as 16+ coats. Sounds like a lot but these are microscopic coats and wipe on wipe off isn't all that time consuming. Rub down very carefully (Wet) after every 5 or 6 coats, no need to go finer than 600 or even 800G. Pre soak the paper. Start with a close grain wood like Maple or Cherry. 
The other finish type to learn is French polishing/Spirit varnishing. Another subject in itself. 
I suggest these two types of finish because they are 'simple' i.e. they require very little in the way of 'tools'. Apart from the finish itself all the other requirements are astonishingly cheap. Could hardly be simpler. Both types of finishes are capable of producing absolutely first class work of the highest order.


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## AndyT (1 Jul 2015)

As far as I can see, the book that you want does not exist. There are some American equivalents - but they are useless, as the branded products are all different from what we can buy here.
This thread - https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/is-there-an-oil-and-wax-finishes-guide-out-there-t84202.html - covered some of the same ground and may be helpful.


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Jul 2015)

In addition to MIGNAL's advice, the more coats of D.O. you use, the more it pays to leave them dry for a day or two between coats. I realised by accident how much easier it is to finish when bone dry - I finished something that I'd last oiled three weeks before, it was so much easier.


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Jul 2015)

Complete Wood Finishing by Ian Hosker - is (or at least used to be) highly regarded there are loads second hand (cheap) on Waterstones Market Place. It might pay to pay a little more and get a slightly newer edition, though. I suppose the fact it's been reprinted several times speaks for it.


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## MIGNAL (1 Jul 2015)

phil.p":2hexlv4s said:


> In addition to MIGNAL's advice, the more coats of D.O. you use, the more it pays to leave them dry for a day or two between coats. I realised by accident how much easier it is to finish when bone dry - I finished something that I'd last oiled three weeks before, it was so much easier.




That's true of all Oil varnishes. Actually it also applies to shellac. Just don't leave it too long _between_ coats of Danish Oil (I mean days or weeks). That might result in witness lines if you rub down at the end. Then again the fix is easy - a few more wipe on coats of Danish Oil. All finishes take weeks if not months to reach their final hardness, some say even years. 
The advantage of say 16 coats of Danish Oil (as opposed to 3 or 4 coats of Oil varnish) is that it's relatively easy to keep everything very even. Thin wipe on coats also don't suffer the dust problems that brushed on Oil coats do.


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## Zeddedhed (1 Jul 2015)

Thanks for the advice people.
Obviously my first step is to up the ante with my sanding routine (feeling slightly ashamed of only going to 150 grit!!  )
Next up to start experimenting with Danish Oil and serious multi coating. (I thought four was a lot!!)

SWIMBO has heard my cries and has just informed me that she has ordered me three books from Amazon that will help - I was a bit concerned given that the general opinion was that there isn't really a decent tome out there but then I found out that Ian Hoskers book is one of the ones she ordered, along with Flexners 'Understanding Wood Finishing' and 'The New Wood Finishing Book' by Michael Dresdner.

This clearly means that she's about to put in a request for a new washing machine or something similar and is trying to oil the wheels.

Oh well. I'm heading back into the workshop to see if coat number four of the Tung Oil is dry yet!!


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## AndyT (1 Jul 2015)

Do let us know if any of them is up to date enough to include 'hard wax oil' and similar, and whether you get advice about branded products available in the UK. I'd love to be wrong on this and find a useful guide myself but the market for non-US specialist ww books seems to be tiny.

It really doesn't help, the way that manufacturers label their products with misleading or inconsistent names or change the composition.


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## Zeddedhed (1 Jul 2015)

AndyT":1fntpm9s said:


> Do let us know if any of them is up to date enough to include 'hard wax oil' and similar, and whether you get advice about branded products available in the UK. I'd love to be wrong on this and find a useful guide myself but the market for non-US specialist ww books seems to be tiny.
> 
> It really doesn't help, the way that manufacturers label their products with misleading or inconsistent names or change the composition.



I certainly will Andy.

It seems to me that there is a gap in the market for a really decent book on finishing aimed at the UK market.
Having searched through the Forum this comes up quite a lot.
There are obviously some people here with enough knowledge to write at least a chapter.
Maybe a UKW collaborative publishing is in order?


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## Phil Pascoe (1 Jul 2015)

Don't forget that some oils are liable to spontaneous combustion - either hang the cloths up to dry or put them in an air tight container. Any new information on hard wax oils would be interesting - I've not had any problem with them but some people seem to.


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## Kalimna (1 Jul 2015)

Ever so slightly hijacking the thread, but how do people (and given your expertise/experience, this question at Mignal in particular) feel about Tru-Oil? How would you compare it to Danish oil? 
Also, with the multiple-thin-coat approach, is there any validity in using thinned down coats initially and/or for the final coats?

Cheers,
Adam
(Currently working through some Osmo oil on a whitewood very basic workbench)


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## Zeddedhed (2 Jul 2015)

Isn't Tru Oil used for Gunstocks?
I believe I have a small tin somewhere that was included with a Browning Shotgun that I bought some years ago. Made by Birchwood Casey i seem to recall.

I must confess that I never thought about using it as a furniture finish as I believe it's fiercely expensive, although I don't know for sure.


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## GLFaria (2 Jul 2015)

I used Tru Oil for gunstocks some (well, a lot...) years ago when I was involved in shooting.
It gives a totally diferent kind of finish from DO. It cures very, very fast, and after only a couple coats you get a shiny hard(ish) coat on the wood - not a dull finish in the wood as with DO.
Even with gunstocks I sometimes felt the need to somewhat dull the surface (if I recall correctly, by light rubbing with steel wool), it was just too shiny for my taste 

However, it is possible that the presently available Tru-Oil differs from the one they made 40+ years ago...


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## Kalimna (2 Jul 2015)

I have used Tru-Oil on a guitar body, and yes it can be shiny and isn't the cheapest, but the amount used is minuscule so it goes far. As far as toughness/hardness goes, I'm afraid I don't really know.

Cheers,
Adam


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Jul 2015)

I can't speak for Tru Oil (although I have used it), but D.O. can be thinned. It pays for the first couple of coats but I've not done it for the last. I suspect that being wiped the remaining coat is very thin anyway. Tru Oil is expensive, but put it in perspective - how much are you likely to use on a nice large, expensive bowl blank? £1's worth?


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## AndyT (2 Jul 2015)

I used Tru Oil on my recent small chest of drawers (see the projects section). On the yew top it gave a nice high gloss finish in three easy coats. On the oak frame and drawers, which naturally are much more open grained and absorbent, it gave a nice protective finish with just two coats, not glossy. I'm still on my first 8oz bottle, and I doubt if I used much more than an ounce for this project. The only downside is that it's a bit smelly.


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## Alexam (4 Jul 2015)

I have started using Tru-Oil and am very impressed with it. Previously I was sanding to 400, then using sanding sealer, with more sanding at 400 to 600 grit before wiping sanding sealer, sanding and then waxing with Microcelular wax.

With the Tru-Oil use, I only use the sanding sealer once, then 3 coats of Tru-Oil with sanding between and the finish is superior to before just with the oil before any waxing.

It is expensive, but it depends on what you are looking for and the more you experiment, the more knowledge you obtain.


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## MIGNAL (4 Jul 2015)

Kalimna":30gm4o0g said:


> Ever so slightly hijacking the thread, but how do people (and given your expertise/experience, this question at Mignal in particular) feel about Tru-Oil? How would you compare it to Danish oil?
> Also, with the multiple-thin-coat approach, is there any validity in using thinned down coats initially and/or for the final coats?
> 
> Cheers,
> ...



Well Tru Oil has a lot less solvent hence why it builds quicker. Most Danish Oils that I've used seemed to be based on Tung Oil. Tru Oil is Linseed. I don't know if Tru Oil contains a resin, it's difficult to work out. The MSDS states 'modified oil' which can mean anything. I think it can also mean a resin, as I believe that synthetic resin can be produced from Oil.
Tru Oil is more pleasant to use, nicer smell. Colour wise it might age a little better than Danish Oil. I guess the Linseed Oil will oxidise a little nicer than Tung. I don't think it's any harder or tougher than your average resin Danish Oil despite all that you read about it as a gun stock finish. 
I don't really see much advantage in thinning down the initial coats. How you finish it depends on what look you are after. If you really want to 'polish the lens' I don't see much point in thinning the final coats. Just allow it to harden for a few weeks and go at it with the abrasive/polishing compound method. Hopefully you have put enough on that you don't abrade through. I'm too lazy to use that method so I carefully rub down (wet) with something like 800G or 1,000G, then I do a few more wipe on wipe off coats to 'fill in' the scratches left by the 800G. If you wipe off very methodically, in very straight slightly overlapping lines you should end up with a decent finish. At worst you'll see some very fine micro lines from the cloth. I prefer that type of finish anyway. The lens polishing is just too hard looking and glass like for my tastes. Some folk are really impressed with that type of finish though. Magpies.


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## marcros (5 Jul 2015)

i really like tru-oil as a finish. If I do anything in walnut, I use tru-oil as a go to finish.

I have used it on yew and oak, and as andy has said above, a couple or three coats on yew and you are done. The only think that I wouldn't use it on is a white timber where it will yellow as badly as any (/most) oil finish will- sycamore/maple. For those, I would use shellac, but I have seen good results with lemon oil.

Personally, I like the smell of tru-oil. Reminds me of bush-beating and going shooting as a kid. It isn't cheap, but a few drops go a long way.

The Jeff Jowett book is very good. It is USA based, some terms are different, and some products not readily available. However, before worrying too much about brands, knowing how to apply different finishes is required.

One other set of finishes that I would recommend, and without rereading the whole post I cannot recall what the OP was finishing, would be shellac flakes, mixed at home, and applied by a high quality mop brush. By mixing it yourself, the raw flakes have a long shelf life, you can make it strong or diluted, vary the colour from almost colourless to dark garnet, tint it any colour, right through to jet black, no offensive smell and it is cheap.


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