# The problem of woodwork waste.



## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

In another thread, Rob (woodbloke) quite rightly, says he likes to clean up everyday, and get the stuff in the bin, redy for the bin-men to cart it all away. 

Fair enough Rob,

But it's not that simple in Walsall. They inspect the bins (Four different colours at the latest count.) and they won't cart away the kind of rubbish that woodwork generates. Ergo, I had to buy two large plastic bins, and a roll of bin- liners. One bin for dust and shavings, one bin for offcuts. (Sometimes a friend burns these in his wood-burner!) I have to keep these bins outside,around my property until there's enough to make a trip to the Council tip worthwhile. It's called recycling.

I call it penny-pinching cut backs, from a Council that expects us to do its job, after having charged us for the privilege. All in the name of the carbon myth. It infuriates me, but I can't do anything about it. Also, they are thinking of charging £1.00 per car to go into the tip! This is on top of swingeing Council Taxes and of course petrol money to make the journey. 

And if there is anything in this carbon malarkey, which I doubt, then I am being forced to add to it, with an unwanted car journey. Madness.

Not getting what we paid for are we? :twisted: 

Anyone else have problems with waste disposal? 

PS.. I am NOT getting into a debate about carbon. I respect the opinions of others, but I don't believe that carbon is causing global warming. IMO if it was, we would all be toast by now. 8)


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## DIY Stew (21 Apr 2012)

John 

My 'shavings' go to friends who have guinea pigs and rats for pets, off cuts I keep for chiminea and sawdust I bag up and take to the tip as some of it is from MDF. I presume the stuff you take to the tip is used in landfill, that being the case do you have a bin for landfill rubbish only? if you do then what is the problem you putting wood rubbish in there. 

I had a letter from our council threatening to remove our recycle bin at a property I rent out because it contained broken glass, at the time the property was empty so it wasn't the bin from our property, I emailed them and warned if the bin was removed I would report the matter to the police as theft, I had to purchase a replacement when the original bin was stolen, I got an apology something our council doesn't do very often. 

Seems to me councils are a law unto themselves. 

Stew


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## studders (21 Apr 2012)

DIY Stew":29zcgjt5 said:


> ........ I emailed them and warned if the bin was removed I would report the matter to the police as theft, I had to purchase a replacement when the original bin was stolen, I got an apology something our council doesn't do very often.
> 
> Seems to me councils are a law unto themselves.
> 
> Stew



Our Binmen are pretty good and take almost anything except 'obvious' Garden waste.
The Council however....... pen pushing plonkers. 
We all got a warning letter stating that we would be fined if any rubbish left in Black bags 'spilled over' on to public areas? The letter insisted ALL rubbish be left in the Bins and Re-cycling boxes provided and NOT in black bags; that's fair enough and, as I wrote back to say, I will do exactly that..... just as soon as I receive said bins and boxes. We get no re-cycling collection and have received no boxes for it and I refuse to pay £70 for a wheelie bin that will disappear within hours. On top of that all our rubbish is collected from the service road at the rear so any rubbish finding its way on to public areas is unlikely to have come from here.


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## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":3l3ut9jh said:


> ........... I don't believe that carbon is causing global warming.


Quite right.It's not carbon it's carbon dioxide


> IMO if it was, we would all be toast by now. 8)


We may well be in the end. But well before that we would expect climate _change_ which could disrupt our lives in many ways - as it is doing around the globe; it's already happening.


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Stew, 
I used to dispose of planer chippings and bench-plane shavings to my daughter for her guineas, but she said they started scratching. The local pet shop wasn't interested unless it was sterilised and bagged up in proper, labelled sealed bags! 

I do use MDF for cheap jobs yes, so that goes into a waste bin for the tip. 

Our bin-men are instructed to examine waste on a random basis. A few months ago, I put a bag of sweepings (sawdust, shavings and bits of cardboard etc.) in the bin. The bag was taken out of the bin and left on the pavement. When I complained, I was told the bin-man considered it as industrial waste. They wouldn't listen to my explanation I was just a hobbyist. I was surprised they didn't ask me to register my home as a business!

My sweepings of course are likely to contain old screws and so on, although I do use a magnet to find these. I keep old useless screws and such in ice-cream containers. When they fill up I leave them out for the scrappies to take 

In general I think Walsall MBC is a mix of self-serving, power mad, Merchant Bankers. (Just my opinion you understand. I do vote, but get the feeling I am wasting my time!) :?


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Jacob":1s4ochmw said:


> Benchwayze":1s4ochmw said:
> 
> 
> > ........... I don't believe that carbon is causing global warming.
> ...



Jacob, :roll: 

You know what I meant. and like I said. NO DISCUSSION. So please leave it out. 
Fin!


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## Harbo (21 Apr 2012)

Small amounts of stuff I put in our "waste" wheely bin. It gets incinerated.
They won't accept large amount of shavings in our green waste bag.
The rest I try to compost mixed with other garden waste, sometimes spread on the garden ( but not regularly as it can cause problems) or take it in bags to the recycling centre.

Rod


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## Lons (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":2euknyyn said:


> You know what I meant. and like I said. NO DISCUSSION. So please leave it out.
> Fin!



:lol: :lol: Yeah right........ and pigs do fly :lol: :lol:


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## henton49er (21 Apr 2012)

We have a small business that breeds worms (for fishing and for compost making). The worms live on a diet of horse manure (from our four Shetland ponies) mixed in a random way with shavings and dust from my woodturning shed. I keep any obviously toxic shavings etc (laburnum, yew etc) out of the stuff to go to the worms, but they do not mind the odd bit of ply, MDF, old screws etc. If it rots down, they eat it, if it doesn't, they ignore it. The end product is not only worms to sell to local fishermen and for garden compost bins, but also the resultant castings are mixed with peat or coir as garden compost (much better than garden centre stuff and cheaper). If I get too much in the way of shavings, they rot down quite quickly on a manure heap.

Mike.


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## Hudson Carpentry (21 Apr 2012)

I used to dump shavings in the garden but after a nice pile of many 100's of liters I stopped. The clean shavings gets bagged and given to people with pets. I have started to burn the mixed shavings and plan to use them to cook with in a smoker when I get round to building it. All the wood waste gets given to people with wood burning fires and we use it for the fire pit and BBQ. Small amounts of shavings get bagged up and put in our general waste bin. If in a sealed bag I can't see how they would know, our bin men are fussy. The council wanted to charge me £7.50 per week for a commercial bin but I would only put about 1 black back in there a month so I politely said pipper off.


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## Harbo (21 Apr 2012)

I'd forgotten about my small worm farm - thanks Mike. 
I can get rid some of my stuff there.
I often put shredded paper which the Council won't accept for recycling and will now use some shavings.

Rod


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Rod, 
I was told that wood chippings take much longer to break down in the soil than garden waste and green leaf matter. It's probably correct, but I no longer garden to the extent that I need much compost any more, so I dug in what I had accumulated, and now just tend the shrubs and mow the lawns. If I want mulch, I buy it. All waste I used to compost, now goes into the brown bin here, for composting by the Council. Who sell the resultant compost of course! Onto a winner aren't they? 

Lons, :lol: :lol: 

I don't mind Jacob's two-penn'orth, so much, but I expressly said in my OP that I wasn't going to enter into discussion on the 'carbon-myth'.

OK; to be pedantic I should have said Carbon-Dioxide, (I believe it's hyphenated) but for the same pedantic reason I should have said, I respect others' *rights* to an opinion, rather than respecting their opinions!. If I don't agree with them how can I respect their sentiment? 

I am sticking to Woodworking matters in future. :mrgreen: 

John :wink:

I am off to the sawmill! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Lons (21 Apr 2012)

I give away useful firewood to several older couples in the village and have a large bonfire a couple of times a year with the rest mixed with the large volume of cuttings produced from my hawthorn hedges., one around Guy Fawkes, I just ensure the wind is in the right direction not to cause problems. 
The Council certainly wouldn't be happy about it but I don't burn anything abnoxious and haven't had a complaint to date.

Some council members act like little hitlers though: :roll: 

When I bought my field 18 years ago they specifically said I wasn't allowed to plant hedges around the boundary and " several members of staff drive past to work and will be watching to ensure compliance".
I told them to get stuffed and watch all they liked, I then applied for and got a grant from the countryside commission towards fence and hedging costs and took great pleasure in shoving it in front of the respective noses along with a threat that I would give the story to a mate who worked for the local newspapers - not another word said. :lol: 

I wish I hadn't plated them now - takes me 2 days to cut the bloody things. #-o 

Bob


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Lons":34fduvth said:


> I give away useful firewood to several older couples in the village and have a large bonfire a couple of times a year with the rest mixed with the large volume of cuttings produced from my hawthorn hedges., one around Guy Fawkes, I just ensure the wind is in the right direction not to cause problems.
> The Council certainly wouldn't be happy about it but I don't burn anything abnoxious and haven't had a complaint to date.
> 
> Some council members act like little hitlers though: :roll:
> ...


 =D> =D> =D> 
Now I really AM OFF to the sawmill! 

TTFN!


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## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":mszsyej7 said:


> ......
> I don't mind Jacob's two-penn'orth, so much, but I expressly said in my OP that I wasn't going to enter into discussion on the 'carbon-myth'.......


But if you didn't want a discussion you shouldn't have started one! It's not a myth by the way, it's well established and fairly simple science, not difficult to understand.

Best thing with woodwaste is to burn it for heating. I burn everything, including mdf, old window frames, you name it. It saves a fortune, saves landfill, and reduces fossil fuel CO2 generation.
Just lit the stove with some old softwood building timbers. Toasty warm in no time, and FREE!!


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## Lons (21 Apr 2012)

Jacob":1tg1hkjt said:


> Benchwayze":1tg1hkjt said:
> 
> 
> > ......
> ...



Can't agree with that Jacob. I haven't research it but if really concerned about emissions then maybe you shouldn't be burning old (probably painted) frames and surely not MDF? :roll: 

I admit that I burn those as well - but then I'm not especially active in condemming the practice or fully convinced by the green arguments given, many of which I consider attempted justification for even more taxation.

Bet my bonfire is bigger than yours :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Bob

ps logging off now - off to produce some more wood waste (hammer)


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Jacob, 

I didn't start a discussion. I said *I didn't want one*. I'm not having one. 
On this subject your posts will fall on 'blind-eyes', so to speak. If you wish to waste your time trying to draw me further, then be my guest.

Take care Jacob.


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## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":2ff5co35 said:


> Jacob,
> 
> I didn't start a discussion.....


Yes you did in your first post. :roll: :lol: 

Burning wood is carbon neutral in that you merely release back to the environment the CO2 (and the solar energy) which was absorbed during the growth of the wood. So as long as replacement trees are growing, burning wood is good and reduces (bad) fossil fuel use.
Using (nor burning) wood is carbon negative and even better. CO2 in the wood was taken from the atmosphere and is locked away in the form of furniture, joinery etc.
Not sure about the emissions from mdf, paint etc so they may just as well go up my chimney as end in landfill. In fact the heavy metal component ends in the ash tray and goes to landfill anyway. Lead paint produces heavy ash!


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## Noel (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":11byluby said:


> Jacob,
> 
> I didn't start a discussion. I said *I didn't want one*. I'm not having one.
> On this subject your posts will fall on 'blind-eyes', so to speak. If you wish to waste your time trying to draw me further, then be my guest.
> ...



You make a post, lay out your opinion and don't want discussion? Errr, you did start a discussion.

In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum, an online facility for discussion, conversation and airing of opinions. 
Even a discussion about not discussing a discussion is a discussion.


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## doctor Bob (21 Apr 2012)

Noel":10dxltnk said:


> In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum, an online facility for discussion, conversation and airing of opinions.
> Even a discussion about not discussing a discussion is a discussion.



Yes, exactly, even me discussing Noels comment about "even a discussion about not discussing a discussion is a discussion" creates more discussion about whether discussion on the discussion premeditates a discussion. :lol:


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

Noel":3e2nya3m said:


> You make a post, lay out your opinion and don't want discussion? Errr, you did start a discussion.
> 
> In case you hadn't noticed this is a forum, an online facility for discussion, conversation and airing of opinions.
> Even a discussion about not discussing a discussion is a discussion.



Noel,

Just so you understand…..

I DO NOT WISH TO DISCUSS THE GREENHOUSE GAS QUESTION.

My post was concerned with local authority policies on waste from woodworking. The only reason I mentioned carbon was to request that aggravating curmudgeons like Jacob would not jump on the bandwagon. Maybe, I should have anticipated...? 

Yet, at the same time, I don’t see why I should be told by you, or anyone else, what was in my mind when I first posted. Especially when you have the wrong end of the wooden spoon. Put on your thinking hread, and read my post again. As for your definition of a discussion, The mind boggles.

Happy now?


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## woodbloke (21 Apr 2012)

Well I have to say that here in Salisbury the bin boys are great. If I leave the grey landfill wheelie bin chocablock with wood offcuts, sawdust and shavings (bagged up) it just goes straight into the back of the wagon, they don't even lift the lid to have a look inside. The other day, I emptied the water butt in the 'shop (wot's used for p/t shaving collection from the dx system) which resulted in three black bin liners full up with shavings, all duly hoiked into the back of the cart without a second glance, together with the contents of the wheelie bin - Rob


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## doctor Bob (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":1pq5y5yt said:


> Noel,
> 
> Just so you understand…..
> 
> ...



I think Noels point was "if you don't want to discuss it don't, but it's an open forum for discussion, so don't get all moody if others discuss it, just don't get your handbag out when they do.


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## acewoodturner (21 Apr 2012)

Our bin men in Fife are pretty good and I dont think inspect the bins before they empty them. At my business premises I dont have a bin as all my waste goes into the woodburning stove or is saved for the winter. The only exception to this is the piles of sawdust if I have a big job on in the summer time. Then I bag it up and take to our local recycling centre. No one has ever stopped me from emptying the bags into the green skips for compost and sometimes the guys even gime me a hand! The crazy thing is that a licence to dump general business is about £350 a year and the green waste licence is about £700. I cant understand this as the green waste is the best kind of waste and isnt landfilled. 
I hope get a 4 sided planer later on in the year but will possibly need to get a briquetting machine as well. At 10k plus they are a bit pricey but as a woodburing stove is going to be installed in my house in the summer this would be handy instead of using bags of sawdust.

As a wee aside our local recycling staff who know I am a woodworker, sometimes give me tools that people want to dump. A couple of years ago I was given 2 coopers adzes, a croz and a bung hammer, all in good order and fully usable. My mate was given a quite good wood turning lathe last year. I just have to remember to give them a couple of packets of chocolate biscuits the next time I am there.

Mike


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

doctor Bob":3cy8yavz said:


> Benchwayze":3cy8yavz said:
> 
> 
> > Noel,
> ...



I am usually slow to get upset, but I'll say it how I see it, and without childish references to handbags.

Jacob was being his usual, provocative self.
Noel was talking nonsense with his 'definition of a discussion', and as you seem to agree with that smart-alec summation, you also are talking nonsense; and being obnoxious, and insulting into the bargain. 

Now you might understand why I asked that no one bring up Carbon Dioxide; because I am fully aware, stirrers can't resist temptation. 
Can they? :-"


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## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":1ygeays5 said:


> .....
> Jacob was being his usual, provocative self.


Moi? As if!! :shock:


> ....
> Now you might understand why I asked that no one bring up Carbon Dioxide; ....


Nobody did until you did! And you've just mentioned it again!!


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## Benchwayze (21 Apr 2012)

And you're blowing off a bit more it seems Jacob.. :-"


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## theartfulbodger (21 Apr 2012)

I put bits of wood and dust in the black bin without issue.

The only time the bin men ever open the lid is when I taped it down with gaffa tape when it was really windy. The bin went up on the lift, was tilted, didn't open and then came down again still full up.

I had to laugh a little bit :mrgreen:


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## doctor Bob (21 Apr 2012)

> I am usually slow to get upset, but I'll say it how I see it, and without childish references to handbags.
> 
> Jacob was being his usual, provocative self.
> Noel was talking nonsense with his 'definition of a discussion', and as you seem to agree with that smart-alec summation, you also are talking nonsense; and being obnoxious, and insulting into the bargain.
> ...



How very dare you 






Lighten up a bit tiger, I'm out of this discussion on carbon monoxide, I don't even know why you brought the subject up :lol:


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## Jacob (21 Apr 2012)

Did someone mention Carbon dioxide? If there's anything you need to know don't hesitate to ask.

I tell you what I absolutely refuse to discuss and that's the F1 fiasco and that ghastly Ecclestone insect. :roll:
Please - nobody say a word.


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## [email protected] (21 Apr 2012)

when recycling first started I was very anti as it was just too much hassle to adhere to the various guidelines. But over the last few years on my visits to the tip (now known as the recycling centre) I am amazed to see just how much waste that we take for granted can be just chucked into a hole in the ground but is now recycled and I think this is great. Massive mounds of glass jars and bottles would all have been buried years ago and thats just one example. With regard to wood waste, perhaps that can be just chucked into the ground as it will degrade unlike plastic and glass but unless it is sneaked in under the guise of normal domestic useage its difficult for this to happen. The trouble with wood waste, where do you draw the line as between home hobbyist, micro business and proper business etc. One things for sure, getting rid of waste is an expensive business these days! Luckily for me I'm able to burn it discreetly! For hobby people I would say best bet is chuck a bit into the wheelie bin and in the neighbours bin as well plus a few bin bags full down the tip now and then. Trouble is, with our tip, they are almost at the stage of opening bags and boxes as you take them out of the car such is their enthusiam to recycle properly.....


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## Lons (21 Apr 2012)

Jacob":3raz7da3 said:


> I tell you what I absolutely refuse to discuss and that's the F1 fiasco and that ghastly Ecclestone insect. :roll:
> Please - nobody say a word.



Damn - that record sounds broken again, strange it always seems to be the same "singer" :? - We're all doomed I tell you - doomed

Bob

Didn't say *A* word honest (several don't count!)

Get stuck in there tomorrow Jenson and Louis, hope you kick Vettels ass :lol:


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## neilg (22 Apr 2012)

Grrrr, the bin men won't even collect anything from us as the track to the house is too long. It takes quite a while to wheel three bins a mile down a bumpy farm track by hand, so I just stick it in the trailer and take it to the tip. But I'm only allowed to go 12 times a year and only with a small trailer!


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## treeturner123 (22 Apr 2012)

Just to add, I have several bags which contain ever diminishing sized pieces of timber. The last bag then is used as kindling for our occasional fires. The shavings and general dust from turning I bag up and take from time to time to our local council tip, run as an outsource of course, where, with the approval of operators, I put it in the 'Green Waste' section. Green waste on this scale is rotted down much quicker than in your garden due to the volume which creates a higher temperature.

Our council have strict rules on re-cycling so it is best not to cross them!

Phil


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## Noel (22 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":3h6utdlg said:


> Noel":3h6utdlg said:
> 
> 
> > You make a post, lay out your opinion and don't want discussion? Errr, you did start a discussion.
> ...





Just so you understand- telling me or indeed anyone else on this site what they should and shouldn't discuss doesn't work and never will. I guarantee that. I haven't a clue what you're going on about regarding anybody telling you what's on your mind, why would anybody do that? If you don't want to discuss a particular aspect then stop harping on about not wanting to discuss it and stop personally insulting other members. If others decide to reply or address your original post in a manner that is not to your liking, well, that's the way forums tend to work. And if your mind "boggles" with the simple concept of how a forum works, well, there's not much anybody can do about that 

And Carbon Dioxide does not have a hyphen in it.

Hope you have a better day today.....


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## DIY Stew (22 Apr 2012)

Eh getting back to waste, I was on light duties (after a work accident in the fire brigade) and had to take a load of rubbish to our local tip, I was stopped and told by the tip manager that I had to have a permit as the vehicle I was using was a pick up ( the station van with Northumberland Fire & Rescue written along the side) I explained it was fire station rubbish but was still refused entry even though I told him we are employed and paid by the same authority! 
My station manager was not best pleased when I returned so we placed all the rubbish in the back of his car (lease car from Northumberland County Council) and I returned to the tip where the tip manager welcomed me with open arms so to speak and helped me sort the rubbish into the various containers.
He said rules are rules and hoped I understood, I just gave him a lovely smile.
The station manager asked if the fire brigade could apply for a licence to take rubbish to the tip, I can't post the reply he was given because it will contain a lot of pineapple,pineapple, pineapple,etc etc etc.

Stew


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## Benchwayze (22 Apr 2012)

Noel":1amddjz3 said:


> Benchwayze":1amddjz3 said:
> 
> 
> > Noel":1amddjz3 said:
> ...



Noel, 

I WAS having a better day; until you regurgitated this nonsense. 

Still, as you have:

1) My mind boggled at your description of a DISCUSSION, NOT at the way the forum is run. 

2) Thank you for the spelling lesson, I wasn't sure, and couldn't be bothered to check. Are there going to be questions on this at sometime? :roll: 

3) As for me insulting members: If someone deliberately posts mickey-taking messages, complete with certain 'smiley faces' then although it's their prerogative, they are stirring. I told them so. If they feel insulted then, as you have just pointed out, it comes with the territory. HARD LUCK! They shouldn't provoke a 'Tiger' (Not my word choice. Someone else's!) 

I am not responding any further on this. So please ship your oars, and consider this post my last on this particular thread. 

If you want the last word Noel, then be my guest, and post again; I shan't bother to respond. 

Now I will go and have the rest of my weekend, hopefully in enjoyment. 

Regards
John


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## Noel (22 Apr 2012)

Just don't forget this Tiger:



> Just so you understand- telling me or indeed anyone else on this site what they should and shouldn't discuss doesn't work and never will. I guarantee that.


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## doctor Bob (22 Apr 2012)

Just to confirm, I didn't feel insulted, skin like a rhino me.
Although Jason on the other side, once drove past my workshop and never waved, broke my heart.


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## Benchwayze (22 Apr 2012)

Noel":3umc8ln0 said:


> Just don't forget this Tiger:
> 
> 
> 
> > Just so you understand- telling me or indeed anyone else on this site what they should and shouldn't discuss doesn't work and never will. I guarantee that.* (REALLY?) *



In the vernacular, tell you what Noel, 

You rip into me for defending myself against two mickey-takers; one of them a known trouble-maker. 
You defend them, and you claim I insulted them. Now you are insulting me (Tiger) That was someone else's expression not mine. Pardon me for borrowing it. 
As if all that isn't enough you lay the blame for the whole fiasco at my door, accuse me of insulting them, and make veiled threats.
If that's your judgement, then so be it, but it displays weak powers of discernment. 

The 'scuttlebutt' I hear must be true then. All I can do is wonder how many more people you have 'eased' out of the picture. 

I will say farewell to all my friends here. It's been nice knowing most of you and I wish you all the best of luck. 
I'll get back to my shop, and my own way of working. 

I will leave you with Noel, waving his big stick. 
Careful you don't put out your own eye in the process Noel.
Cheerio all.


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## Noel (22 Apr 2012)

Benchwayze":1ad1qzc9 said:


> Noel":1ad1qzc9 said:
> 
> 
> > Just don't forget this Tiger:
> ...



You miss the point. You were telling people what to discuss and what not to discuss:



> NO DISCUSSION. So please leave it out.



That is unacceptable.

As for "easing people out" and your scuttlebutt reference care to elaborate?


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## Richard T (22 Apr 2012)

Dammit! :evil:


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## condeesteso (22 Apr 2012)

(back to the topic) Any experience composting it? I produce a fair bit, and wife won't let me spread it on borders as it leeches the nitrogen I am told, and further encourages bindweed (very hard to eradicate). I wondered about getting it damp and adding a compost accelerator, but has anyone practical experience or info to help?


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## Dodge (22 Apr 2012)

I dont have much of a problem with waste, I burn my offcuts and paper/carboard in my woodburner.

bags of chippings/shavings get put outside the end of my building and tend to disappear with the empty bags being returned a few days later - loads of people who come to the gym opposite my workshop keep animals so problem solved.


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## Benchwayze (22 Apr 2012)

> NO DISCUSSION. So please leave it out. You miss the point. You were telling people what to discuss and what not to discuss:



NOT SO. I WAS TELLING OTHERS I DIDN'T WANT TO DISCUSS. READ IT AGAIN... SLOWLY! So you don't miss the point again.


Furthermore , don't attack me from your lofty position, because you feel I insulted your friends. You are supposed to be impartial.

Now please tell me how to delete my account or do it for me. 
And if you wish to update yourself on scuttlebutt, try hanging around other woodwork fora for a while. 

Enjoy!


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## Chrispy (22 Apr 2012)

Shavings and sawdust will compost if mixed with an accelerator, I once used pigeon droppings. I made a pallet board box ie. 1.2m cube and filled it layer by layer with shavings poop and wetting it as I built it up, after about a week you could see steam rising from it, and if you stuck your hand in it was really quite hot but to keep it going at that heat you needed to keep turning it over to mix in air which kind of took the fun out of the whole exercise.

Ps my workshop at the time was next to a 400 year old pigeon loft that hadn't been cleaned out for 20 or 30 years.


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## Jacob (22 Apr 2012)

I'm told good accelerators are **** and ****. Simple to arrange as a composting toilet. Saves water, disposes of sawdust, grows rhubarb, rhubarb is a laxative - it's win win all round!


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## Woodchips2 (23 Apr 2012)

Jacob":2hwevku1 said:


> I'm told good accelerators are **** and ****. Simple to arrange as a composting toilet. Saves water, disposes of sawdust, grows rhubarb, rhubarb is a laxative - it's win win all round!


Bob Flowerdew advocates peeing in your compost heap :lol: 
Regards Keith


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## Wildman (23 Apr 2012)

sawdust and wood shavings do compost down they just take a while, I use sawdust in my fish smoker, and the shavings as a mulch around the fruit bushes to prevent weeds. whatever is left over is composted via the normal compost bins or used in the composting dog loo that is on the smallholding. recycle everything and waste nothing, hee hee. (I don't use composted dog manure on the garden though am told it would be ok, just don't fancy it.)


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## Lons (23 Apr 2012)

Wildman":1473o5ek said:


> I don't use composted dog manure on the garden though am told it would be ok, just don't fancy it.



The dog poo wouldn't bother you at all if you smelled the stuff they spread on the fields around here occasionally :roll: The resulting crops then go off to supermarket and unsuspecting consumers !!!

I think it's called Agrivert. - it's light grey ash, incinerated human waste and they pay the farmers to allow them to dump and spread it. You can smell it for miles around, a choking bloody horrible stink :shock: 

Bob


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## jack55 (23 Apr 2012)

Sawdust is an ideal additive to any composting mix, it provides carbon which is needed if the main component of your compost material is grass and or food waste. Chippings will also add structure to a compost pile but will take a while to break down. 

By the way if you produce waste as a hobby and not as a business then the council has a statutory duty to remove it along with the rest of the waste. Commercial waste is waste which is produced from a premises used whole as a place of business. 

They also cannot make a charge for a householder to use a Household Waste and Recycling Centre, or local skip site or what ever they are called in Englandshire.

Businesses producing sawdust is an entirely different prospect. Any business disposing of waste can only do so at a place licensed to take commercial or industrial waste, and the producer must only assign the waste to an authorised carrier and must provide a Transfer Note which has to be retained for two years. All councils will charge for the collection and disposal of commercial waste, they must however, only recover their costs. Any business producing dust (particularly MDF) which may be harmful to health, has an additional duty of care to ensure they have identified it to the collection company/authority. 

Good quality sawdust is expensive to buy!!!


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## mtr1 (24 Apr 2012)

My father(a farmer) told me that wood dust/chippings takes valuable nitrates when it breaks down, so he won't let me use it on the compost heap. But the horsey people don't seem to mind, they just pick it up from the front gate.


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## DrPhill (24 Apr 2012)

mtr1":12rh5pt5 said:


> My father(a farmer) told me that wood dust/chippings takes valuable nitrates when it breaks down, so he won't let me use it on the compost heap. But the horsey people don't seem to mind, they just pick it up from the front gate.



The horsey people are not trying to make compost, though, are they?

I am no expert but..... I add sawdust to my compost heap even though I know that the microbes need to use available nitrogen to break down the sawdust (which they do to extract energy, not for our benefit). I just make sure that the compost heap is rich in nitrogen (details not forthcoming!). I think the nitrogen that the bugs remove is only temporarily unavailable - it becomes available again as the bugs die - so the effect is converting some available nitrogen to slow-release nitrogen. The benefits of the added fibre seem to outweigh the effects of delaying nitrogen availability.

Also, burning waste wood products may be better than composting/landfill. Although carbon dioxide adds tothe greenhouse effect, composting may release methane, which is a far more potent greenhouse gas.

In deference to the OP I will not express my opinion that anthropogenic global warming is a dangerous and real threat, and I would hope that he will not extend the argument by rebuttal.


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## Benchwayze (24 Apr 2012)

DrPhill":6th9xqml said:


> mtr1":6th9xqml said:
> 
> 
> > In deference to the OP I will not express my opinion that anthropogenic global warming is a dangerous and real threat, and I would hope that he will not extend the argument by rebuttal.



Dr. Phill, 

I shouldn’t really dignify your last paragraph with a response.

However, *I am not going to allow you to get away with putting words into my mouth.* I did NOT say anything about the dangers of Global Warming. Instead I merely made reference to the question of carbon; (CO2/ carbon dioxide), call it what you will. (Check the 'offending' paragraph in my original post, if you wish.) 

Secondly, you state that you are not going to offer an opinion on anthropogenic Global warming; then, in the same sentence, you do precisely that. 

Thirdly, you ‘hope I won’t rebut you’. (You can hope all you want, sir, but that won’t deny me the right to disagree with you, if I so wish.)

Further, isn’t your last paragraph breaking the very rules, the 'offence' that got me into so much trouble? I.e. presuming to tell me what you think I should or should not post. (Are you watching Noel? This is exactly the 'sin' for which you 'ticked-me-off'. ) 

Finally Dr. Phill, in relation to the Global Warming, and many other contentious issues of the modern day, I’ll draw your attention to Nicolaus Copernicus. He was once in a minority of one, when he tried to demonstrate that the Earth was not the centre of the Universe. We know better these days. 

Now, certainly the Universe doesn’t revolve around me, but then neither does it revolve around you. 

Or are you just another one, taking the chance to slip in a bit of sarcasm?

John Walker (Dr. U.O.L)


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## jack55 (24 Apr 2012)

> My father(a farmer) told me that wood dust/chippings takes valuable nitrates when it breaks down, so he won't let me use it on the compost heap. But the horsey people don't seem to mind, they just pick it up from the front gate.



Your father was not altogether wrong sawdust is mainly carbon and bacteria need both nitrogen and carbon, but in the composting process there needs to be a much higher ratio of carbon to nitrogen. Given that grass is nitrogen rich it needs plenty of carbon to balance it out. It also needs some structure to allow the air to circulate and the moisture to drain. Excess nitrogen will be lost anyhow as it will be given off as a gas. The key is the carbon has to be easily accessible to the bacteria, sawdust due to its small particle size is good for that (newspapers by the way are not) however it is not good for structure, thats where the chippings can come in. The carbon in wood chippings is not so accessible but provides good structure. Composting by definition is an aerobic process so cannot produce methane, methane is produced in anaerobic conditions.


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## condeesteso (26 Apr 2012)

Thank you Jack - a clear response to my question !
So if I test a mix of dust (bandsaw say) with chips (planer) and grass, which is growing like crazy at the moment, keep the whole lot damp and work in decent volumes (a cubic metre or so maybe?) I may succeed and have an output my RHS wifey will approve of? I'll give it a go, sneekily behind the workshop.


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## Paul Chapman (26 Apr 2012)

condeesteso":1vjq1mjr said:


> So if I test a mix of dust (bandsaw say) with chips (planer) and grass, which is growing like crazy at the moment, keep the whole lot damp and work in decent volumes (a cubic metre or so maybe?) I may succeed and have an output my RHS wifey will approve of? I'll give it a go, sneekily behind the workshop.



If nothing else it will make somewhere nice to live, Douglas. My large compost heap consists mainly of grass cuttings, ash from the fire and sawdust and chippings from chainsawing logs. At the moment I have a fox and her four cubs living in it. They are really cute and great fun to watch  But it's scared the daylights out of Sparky my cat - I think he used to use it as his toilet but he goes somewhere else now :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (26 Apr 2012)

Paul Chapman":29t93212 said:


> My large compost heap consists mainly of grass cuttings, ash from the fire and sawdust and chippings from chainsawing logs.
> 
> Paul


To go OT for a mo', we've had some interesting discussions on said composting, and it's always a source of amazement to me the way the level keeps dropping in the bin. I just feed mine with green waste from the kitchen (spud peelings etc) bits from the garden and pond (no weeds) and the odd bit of brown stuff (cardboard etc) but I don't put grass in as it tends (or at least I find it does) clog up the works somewhat. It got full at the end of the summer last year and I decided to empty about half of it to make some more space at the top...from the bottom I got out five :shock: old home brew buckets (5 gals each) of loverly brown compost and there was still loads left in the bin - Rob


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## Eric The Viking (26 Apr 2012)

My frustration with council recycling schemes is that they are so "un-green" it's staggering.

The only work that's been done on it I am aware of* suggests that kerbside-sorted recycling, such as has just been introduced here in Bristol, is _nine times_ more expensive than properly managed landfill. 

The key term in this context is 'properly managed'. That means lined to prevent leaching, monitored and having other emissions such as methane properly vented and collected. 

Expensive inevitably means energy inefficient, and that means not green. It's all very well saying 'but we've saved such-and-such going into landfill', but for what purpose and at what energy/environmental cost in doing so? 

For example, there is so much paper and cardboard being 'recycled' nowadays, likewise plastics, that there is barely any market for it. Bristol's waste paper is baled and taken to Kent(!) presumably for processing, but possibly incineration. Because of EU regulations banning the use of 'recycled' plastics in food packaging, there is hardly any uses for that. There are recycled plastics products, for example some sorts of home insulation, and clothing fabrics, but large amounts of it are simply packed as densely as possible and stored (or so I understand).

Why isn't this 'green'? Because we are sorting and storing stuff we effectively have no use for. We are using scarce resources to do a pointless task! Far better, IMHO, to put it into landfill, properly managed, until such time as either a commercially viable market opens up, or we develop an energy-efficient method of recycling it.

Better still, of course, is to deal with consumer packaging issues at source, by being much tougher on the companies creating the waste in the first place. Personally I'd like to see a law making it illegal to demand failed goods were returned 'in the original packaging,' and making it an absolute right for consumers to leave all packaging behind at the store at the time items are bought.

Crazy world, innit?

E. 


*The US-based Mises Institute, economic think-tank, although they were quoting a primary source I can't remember.


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## Lons (26 Apr 2012)

> Better still, of course, is to deal with consumer packaging issues at source, by being much tougher on the companies creating the waste in the first place. Personally I'd like to see a law making it illegal to demand failed goods were returned 'in the original packaging,' and making it an absolute right for consumers to leave all packaging behind at the store at the time items are bought. E.



=D> =D> Exactly the way forward Eric.

But... it isn't going to happen as there are much more poweful forces at work for political reasons rather than ecological. Such is the world we live in :roll: 

As for the original composting question.................... 
I don't actively compost these days apart from a huge heap of grass cuttings in the field to which I often add cuttings and thin branches as well as soil at times. It does come out eventually as usable stuff however when I did have a proper compost heap, I used to add powder product which was sold as an accelerator. How did that work then?

Bob


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## DrPhill (26 Apr 2012)

Lons":2ouzxh1o said:


> I used to add powder product which was sold as an accelerator. How did that work then?


Soil microbes, nitrogenous fertilizer, and good marketing. :lol:


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## Lons (26 Apr 2012)

DrPhill":1lgfot7t said:


> Soil microbes, nitrogenous fertilizer, and good marketing. :lol:



So a bit of a con then?

Wife used to buy it - not me - I was just the lacky :wink: :lol:


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## DrPhill (27 Apr 2012)

Lons":36p36nwd said:


> DrPhill":36p36nwd said:
> 
> 
> > Soil microbes, nitrogenous fertilizer, and good marketing. :lol:
> ...



I suspect so, but cannot say for sure. None of the books that I have read on the topic mentioned the need for such additives.

I imagine that in the unlikely situation where the microbes are missing adding some will help, and maybe a small amount of nitrogen might kick start a torpid heap. But in such a cases I would recommend a spadeful of soil and a bucket of p*ss.


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## doctor Bob (27 Apr 2012)

DrPhill":1s4foei6 said:


> But in such a cases I would recommend a spadeful of soil and a bucket of p*ss.



Reminds me of that old joke, old farmer marries a young attractive woman, shows her around his home and the outside toilet, which has no lock on it, she says "its got no lock on it, aren't you worried!!!",

"don't you worry about that my luv, we haven't had a bucket of sh*t pinched for 20 year"


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## Paul Chapman (27 Apr 2012)

:lol:


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## jack55 (30 Apr 2012)

I compost some 25,000 tonnes of municipal waste a year. never needed an additive yet.

Eric. Recycling isn't about saving landfill its about saving resources, which if we continue to use them at the rate we do we need another two planets. All landfills in the Uk have to be lined and leachate recovered. Its a simple case of reusing or recycling materials so we don't run out. Mind you some of the so called green agenda needs some more consideration though. Bio mass burners (wood) need massive amounts to feed them something like 250,000 tonnes a year, so MDF could become more expensive than OAK in the future as the woodfibre goes to be burnt.


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## DrPhill (30 Apr 2012)

jack55":3u2va27j said:


> I compost some 25,000 tonnes of municipal waste a year. never needed an additive yet.


A professional then? Assuming so, then you are the first that I have 'met'. Could I ask for your view on the methane production of landfill? Is it significant? Is it trapped? Is it measured? Is it regulated? 



jack55":3u2va27j said:


> Eric. Recycling isn't about saving landfill its about saving resources, which if we continue to use them at the rate we do we need another two planets. All landfills in the Uk have to be lined and leachate recovered. Its a simple case of reusing or recycling materials so we don't run out.


I expect that, as we are the early stages of training the population, there are some wrinkles to be ironed out. The reduce/reuse/recycle thing is as much of a social attitude as it is a practical implementation of the attitude. Separating the waste can lead to massive savings if the separated wastes are recycled, but I hope that involving the population in the disposal process by getting them to do the separation will also raise awareness of where waste comes from. For example, maybe people will notice how much food they are wasting, they may then reflect on the cost of that wasted food, and reduce their purchasing accordingly. That will be good for their pockets and for the environment.

Or maybe I am just an idealist on a soapbox.........


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## Jacob (30 Apr 2012)

DrPhill":vj3xat77 said:


> .....
> Or maybe I am just an idealist on a soapbox.........


No not at all, it all has to be thought about!
Biomass burning for me means waste wood and paper, basically not recyclable elsewhere.

A biological material or timber based economy? Tax benefits for all timber building, engineering and other products? 
Result - increased value of forestry and re-planting, which with the increased range of timber products effectively sequesters increased levels of CO2. Also generates increased biomass waste for burning from timber processing at the start and disposal of materials at end of life (derelict timber buildings etc). Add all packaging materials to be biomass burnable - paper cloth etc
Add all clothing to be natural materials. All white and black goods could at least have timber casings.
And so on.


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## Eric The Viking (30 Apr 2012)

jack55":3mcdgvil said:


> Eric. Recycling isn't about saving landfill its about saving resources



That was my point! 

If you 'recycle' stuff for which there is no use, you are _wasting_ resources doing it. And we do, and we are.

Right now we're wasting fuel, vehicles, manpower and lots of money. 

There are other reasons though why it's not working for us: for example, in global terms our labour costs are way too expensive. This is one very significant reason why we throw away stuff rather than mend it. 

Also, as mentioned, retailers are under hardly any incentive to reduce the amount of packaging, etc. 

What annoys me is the systematic lying on all this from central and local government, not to mention the EU. Some people are getting very rich - where there's muck, etc.

Sorry it's a bit of a hobby horse. Here, we try to be as green as possible, and we go into it very carefully.

Regards,

E.


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## DrPhill (1 May 2012)

Jacob":1uu1icqb said:


> DrPhill":1uu1icqb said:
> 
> 
> > .....
> ...


I was wondering when people would realise that not only is timber a good store for carbon, but that it can be used to make things too! 
Carbon is stored in timber as approximately CH2O formula weight (12+2+16) 30. The same amount of CO2 has a formula weight of 44, so 30kg of timber traps carbon that would have made 44Kg of CO2. I found that result surprising when I first did the calculation.



Eric The Viking":1uu1icqb said:


> jack55":1uu1icqb said:
> 
> 
> > Eric. Recycling isn't about saving landfill its about saving resources
> ...



I have much sympathy for your view - but I am more frustrated by the missed opportunities that by the effort spent missing them. I console myself that it will take time for a system to evolve and mature into an efficient disposition for materials. I would rather have a faulty system than none atall, assuming there is the will to improve it.

I am glad that I am not alone on my soapbox. Plenty of room for all.


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## Jacob (1 May 2012)

Carbon sequestration here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration

Interestingly it gets it quite wrong here:

_Reforestation is the replanting of trees on marginal crop and pasture lands to incorporate carbon from atmospheric CO2 into biomass.[6] For this process to succeed the carbon must not return to the atmosphere from burning or rotting when the trees die.[7] To this end, the trees must grow in perpetuity or the wood from them must itself be sequestered, e.g., via biochar, bio-energy with carbon storage (BECS) or landfill._

Carbon _can_ be returned, by burning, to the atmosphere carbon neutrally, as long as it is matched by replanting. Furthermore simple storage of wood either as timber or in wood products, creates a large carbon store in addition to that growing.
Even further - replacement of non organic materials by wood _adds_ to the store at the same time as it reduces the CO2 generated by steel making and other processes.

Woodworkers can save the planet!


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## kirkpoore1 (1 May 2012)

Jacob":3v8odrfs said:


> Carbon sequestration here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration
> 
> Interestingly it gets it quite wrong here:
> 
> ...



Jacob:

Although your final statement is correct (at least to a certain degree), your claim that the reforestation paragraph is wrong is itself a misreading. Returning carbon to the air through burning is part of the carbon cycle. Carbon _sequestration_ requires that the carbon (in wood form, or whatever) is _not_ returned to the air. So for reforestation to lead to sequestration, the wood must be not be burned or allowed to rot.

Kirk


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## DrPhill (1 May 2012)

Jacob":22dr9xc8 said:


> Woodworkers can save the planet!


More so if we restrict ourselves to hand tools, and eschew the electric tools that require carbon generation (coal, gas....) to operate. Roll on the new-artisan economy!

(UK average carbon footprint of electricity is 0.47kg/KWh - equivalent to a tad over 300g of wood sequestered CO2)


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## Jacob (1 May 2012)

kirkpoore1":2bej941v said:


> Jacob":2bej941v said:
> 
> 
> > Carbon sequestration here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sequestration
> ...


Right. If only_ matched_ by replanting you get zero sequestration (but also zero emission). 
What I meant to add was that if burning/planting were both _increased_ then there would be positive sequestration.
And you also replace fossil fuel use and the CO2 it would have emitted. A double benefit.


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## jack55 (1 May 2012)

DrPhill":1p6w821e said:


> A professional then? Assuming so, then you are the first that I have 'met'. Could I ask for your view on the methane production of landfill? Is it significant? Is it trapped? Is it measured? Is it regulated?



There are some myths and facts involved in methane production at landfills. Methane is produced by the decomposition of organic matter in a landfill, of that there is no doubt. What is nearly always not mentioned is that methane is a food to some species of bacteria. Depending on the size of landfill and the rate of methane production, bacteria in the soil can and does breakdown the methane as it passes through the top layers of soil. This can be seen on old landfill sites which have not been restored, the site will be covered in grasses weeds and self seeded bushes and trees. No growth would be possible if the soils were rich in methane. So if left alone nature can take care of its self. However pollution occurs when nature is overwhelmed and large landfill sites could do just that. Given all landfill sites are now capped and properly restored, and there is a statutory requirement to recover the methane and either use it (electricity production) or flare it so it does not get released into the atmosphere. In fact there is a healthy profit to be made in using the methane to run gas engines which power turbines and produce electricity.

Bio mass unfortunately does not mean burning bits of waste organic materials, it means diverting forestry production from timber to fuel. A biomass power plant was proposed here and the majority of saw mills objected to it.


By definition you cannot recycle something for which there is no use for. Recycling is taking something and reducing it into a raw materials for re manufacture. Aluminum cans are turned back into aluminum, glass bottles and jars back to glass bottles and jars, plastic bottles into fleeces, pipes and flower pots, newspapers back to newsprint cardboard to plasterboard backing.
Again it is understandably myth that supermarkets have no interest in reducing packaging. It is in fact not true. Supermarkets along with manufacturers which use, produce or sell goods in packaging have a statutory obligation to reduce, reuse or recycle a predetermined tonnage of all packaging they use. The obligation is in the form of The Packaging Regulations. " Valpack" have a web site which explains them in lay terms. In short organisations like supermarkets coco cola and the like have to spend millions in complying with the regulations, the more packaging they are involved with the more they pay. Some packaging is there to prevent theft, some to protect the goods. Believe me supermarkets would not give us any packaging at all if there was not a good (in money terms) reason for it.


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## DrPhill (2 May 2012)

jack55":3dafvpb1 said:


> There are some myths and facts involved in methane production at landfills.........


Thank you Jack55 for taking the time to respond. I found your post interesting and informative. It is good to know that current landfill does not add to the greenhouse effect by making methane. 

I understand what you say about using biomass to make energy - reports already have it raising timber prices and displacing food production (which will also add to the rise in food prices). As with most things we are finding novel ways to 'enjoy now' (cheap energy, cheap food, wasteful practices) and 'pay later' (pollution, climate change, resource depletion, high prices).

As for the packaging - I see that as a symptom of the 'delocalisation' of the food industry. Small, local food production and distribution never needed all the packaging (or the food miles) but the supermarket system absolutely requires it. Package costs money, and reduces profits so is only done when needed. Supermarkets also suck money from local economies and give it to investors who have no interest in or responsibility for those local communities. 

Sorry, I warned you all this was my soapbox.


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## Jacob (2 May 2012)

jack55":1u530prl said:


> ....
> Bio mass unfortunately does not mean burning bits of waste organic materials, it means diverting forestry production from timber to fuel. A biomass power plant was proposed here and the majority of saw mills objected to it....


I agree that biomass burning in that sense is not good, I was thinking of non-recyclable bio waste, which for me means sawdust, small offcuts, building demolition waste, packaging etc.


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## jack55 (3 May 2012)

Getting back to the origin of this thread. It does annoy me when local authority waste officers (and i am one) forget the legislation which governs their actions. Household waste is not defined by the type of waste (that definition was changed in 1990) it is defined by the source. Ergo, household waste is produced by a domestic property, a domestic property does not become a commercial property because there is saw dust in the bin. Local Authorities are restricted by law as to what they can charge for. They have to provide an uplift of domestic waste free of any charge, they may make a charge for bulky items which cannot fit into a standard bin or weigh more than 56 lbs and for garden waste. They cannot make a charge to householders disposing of refuse at local Civic amenity sites (skip sites) Household waste sites, what every they are called. If they do refuse to take sawdust or wood waste and you are not a commercial property, remind them that the definition of household waste is given in The Collection and Disposal Regulations 1992, which enact the relevant sections of The Environment Protect Act 1990, and ask them what section of these acts they are using to justify the refusal to collect. If you want to get an answer send the request as a complaint through you MP.


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## treeturner123 (3 May 2012)

Jack55

Sanity at last! At our local amenity site, there seems to be an assumption that if you have a white van, it must be commercial. Indeed in the past, one of my friends had to give up being 'Neighbourly' by taking some OAPs' waste because the site management wanted to charge him!

I must remember the act and may be write it on the windscreen of my car!

Joking aside, your contribution is very welcome indeed

Phil


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## Lons (3 May 2012)

treeturner123":vpg27bp4 said:


> Jack55 Joking aside, your contribution is very welcome indeed Phil



+1 =D> =D> 

Does the same regulation apply in England as Scotland?

Bob


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## jack55 (5 May 2012)

Hi yes the regulations apply to the UK. Skip sites do tend to be wary of commercial vans as lots of traders try to pass off commercial waste as domestic. They also have a separte set of regulations governing them cant remember the regulation off hand but they are also part of the Environmental Protection Act 1990. The principle is if a charge is made for bulky items or garden waste then a facility has to be offered where that type of waste can be dumped free of charge. carrying other peoples waste can complicate the issue as you can get caught by needing transfer notes and being a registered waste carrier.


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## Lons (5 May 2012)

Thanks for that Jack, Very informative and helpful.

I had a run in with the environmental agency a few years ago when I received a speculative letter demanding that I was obliged to register as a waste carrier or handler. I ignored the first and received an even more forceful reminder and was annoyed at the aggressive and threatening wording. I responded insisting they quote the legislation reference that decrees I MUST register when in fact all of my waste is disposed of correctly via skip hire and that I would take up the matter with my MP. They backed down very quickly.

What really stood out was that the letters were instigated by the "revenues manager" :roll: 

Bob


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## Hitch (6 May 2012)

My waste..... 
The odd bit of dust goes in the wheelie bin bagged up if there is room. Same as the odd bag of weeds.
Offcuts, go to friends with log burners.
Any larger dirty combustible items, go to a big bonfire.
Smaller items can go in the car to the tip.

What really gets me, I have a berlingo van (private use, non business), the wife had a berlingo multispace....
I could load hers right up with just about anything and take it to the tip, no questions asked. Yet I couldn't deposit a carrier bag full of clearly houshold rubbish if it came out of my van.

I know the bonfire isn't environmentally friendly, but nor is a 20+ mile round trip just to get rid of an extra bag of rubbish. 

Our local council has upped its game with regard to recycling now. A couple of years ago, they would refuse to take cardboard, but would happily take car batteries.


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## mind_the_goat (7 May 2012)

If you cant compost it or burn it yourself you could try giving it away on freecycle. look it up on the web.

Am i allowed to mention the 'landfill myth' or the 'finite natural reasource myth'z
?


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## Lons (7 May 2012)

mind_the_goat":35afvb3a said:


> Am i allowed to mention the 'landfill myth' or the 'finite natural reasource myth'z ?



#-o #-o You just did (hammer) - can of worms comes to mind :lol: :lol:


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## Jacob (7 May 2012)

mind_the_goat":22c46d5j said:


> If you cant compost it or burn it yourself you could try giving it away on freecycle. look it up on the web.
> 
> Am i allowed to mention the 'landfill myth' or the 'finite natural reasource myth'z
> ?


You can say what you like as far as I am concerned, just don't expect to be agreed with. 
What are these myths?


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## mind_the_goat (7 May 2012)

I should have kept my earlier reply to just one of the topics in this thread, the one I really wanted to raise:
Freecycle is an on-line community that makes a allows people to give away stuff that would often end up in the bin. It is set up on a very local basis to make it easy for people to collect 'stuff'. I often see offers of firewood on our local group and it seems these are usually snapped up. Sawdust or shavings for compost could also go down well I'd have thought. The only effort involved is posting an 'offer' note and then possibly having to choose from a number of interested parties, who should get the item.
It can also be a good source of reclaimed timber for projects.
I recommend anyone who is collecting stuff for a trip to the local 'tip' offer some of the items on Freecycle, it may make the trip unnecessary.
The National page can be found here uk.freecycle.org and it contains information and links to local groups.


Now, I feel I should apologise for my attempted sarcastic comment on, well, 'the issue that cannot be named'. I was reading on my phone and failed to spot the additional 5 pages of slightly heated debate where many points, including mine had been mentioned. My intention was not to raise the heat further.
Would it be out of order to suggest that we start a new thread to discuss the issue of 'Human impact on the biosphere' and keep this one on topic and restrict it to the Waste Wood issue?


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## Jacob (7 May 2012)

mind_the_goat":3g9ccivl said:


> I...
> Freecycle is an on-line community ...


Freecycle is brilliant. It's being gradually replaced by Freegle as there has been some dissatisfaction with the American Freecycle "owners" but they are otherwise identical.
It's for all that stuff you want to dump which is not worth the effort of selling but too good to destroy. The sort of stuff you see at the local dump but which they won't let you take away - which is madness IMHO. This primary level of recycling is the most efficient of all - no sorting or reprocessing of any sort required you just pick the thing up and take it home!


> .... My intention was not to raise the heat further....


Why not? :lol:


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## Lons (7 May 2012)

Just a word of caution about freecycle!
It is used sometimes by criminals to case a property. I know of one of my brothers neighbours who offered a TV. A bloke came to view it, said it wasn't quite what he wanted and left without it but did quiz the owner who said he had bought a new flat screen and dvd package and his 40" screen was great for watching footy on sky. He was broken into a few days later and they cleaned him out but luckily the thieves were spotted by someone who rang the police and they were nabbed. Subsequently confessed to a number of similar crimes it seems.

My next door neighbour who's a DI says he would never use the service but advises to always ask for ID, take the vehicle reg, keep your mouth shut and never allow them to see inside your property or outbuildings (workshop).
My feeling is that anyone collecting firewood or dust/shavings will guess there are tools and machinery about.

I won't use them but my brother despite what happened does so regularly without problem. However, his house almost always has someone at home!

Bob


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## Wildman (9 Jun 2012)

as a gardener I compost my shaving sawdust etc, but keep it seperate from the main compost heap due to the length of time it takes. you can just add it to the garden but that will result in a potash shortage in the soil as the wood leaches it out of the soil. I keep the odd bag for oil spilages and a few more for stable bedding to mix with the straw not had any over to really worry about yet and given the fact that I am a hobbyist am unlikely to have a problem in the furture. Hedgerows are an excellent sourse of timber for burning and turning I wouldn't be without mine. I am currently thinking of turning an old oil fired stove into a woodburner to heat the workshop anyone done it before?


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## mind_the_goat (14 Sep 2012)

I've been making briquettes using a press designed for newspaper. Adding a splash of PVA to the mix and leaving each in the press for 24 hours. Obviously a slow process and I've yet to try burning one. It could be that I've put more energy in than I get out


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## brianhabby (16 Sep 2012)

mind_the_goat":25scpdq3 said:


> I've been making briquettes using a press designed for newspaper. Adding a splash of PVA to the mix and leaving each in the press for 24 hours. Obviously a slow process and I've yet to try burning one. It could be that I've put more energy in than I get out



Would be interesting to learn how they burn when you get round to it.



jack55":25scpdq3 said:


> They cannot make a charge to householders disposing of refuse at local Civic amenity sites (skip sites) Household waste sites, what every they are called.



Even if they are in a van?



mind_the_goat":25scpdq3 said:


> Freecycle is an on-line community that makes a allows people to give away stuff that would often end up in the bin.



I won't use it any more after several people have failed to turn up as promised, wasting my time and stopping others from getting whatever it was I was giving away. I have also been concerned about the security aspect and would only agree to meet people in town.

regards 

Brian


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## riclepp (17 Sep 2012)

My council are preety good, they don't seem to mind what goes in the green bin....so I am happy. Role on winter lots of wood to burn. And I don't care about global warmining as we are all going to die, either naturally or by the humans devices or doinging...so enjoy life to the full 

Cheers

Richard


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## mind_the_goat (12 Nov 2012)

@ brianhabby - started to burn a few now, they are not very dense and catch fire very easily, probably better suited to lighting the fire rather than hoping to use them to heat the house all night. They seem to last for 30 minutes or more though.
I tend to mix up a small batch of saw dust and shavings with a cap full of PVA and water, then just make a new brick each time I go out to the garage I leave the press with a weight on it. Unless you have a good spot inside to dry them it seems to be a job for the summer.


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## tekno.mage (12 Nov 2012)

I have various uses for the woodshavings and sawdust we produce....

1. bags of clean non texic shavings go to the local shepherds who use it on the floors of trailers when they are moving their sheep in them. Once used (and soaked with what comes out of sheep), it goes with the rest of the muck to rot down before being spread back on the pasture.

2. Bags of nice dry sawdust from the bandsaw dust extractor go to a lady who has a compost toilet at her tree nursery.

3. I used to give really clean symamore shavings to a local pet shop for small animal bedding, but they have since closed down.

4. I always have a metal bucket of shavings by our log fires - if the fire burns down too much you can rekindle it easily with a couple of handfuls of dry wood shavings.

5. Some goes in my compost heap.


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## RogerS (12 Nov 2012)

riclepp":3sxdj3eb said:


> My council are preety good, they don't seem to mind what goes in the green bin....so I am happy. Role on winter lots of wood to burn. And I don't care about global warmining as we are all going to die, either naturally or by the humans devices or doinging...so enjoy life to the full
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Richard



It grieves me to see all that burnable wood being thrown away in the wood container at out local recycling plant. I can generate only so much in the way of offcuts!


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## heimlaga (13 Nov 2012)

Offcuts and larger chips go into the wood fired central heating boiler. Planer shavings and saw dust goes into a dust collector and when I change the bag I store the full bag in a barn. When there are many enough of them I sell the contents to a local horse owner and get my empty bags back.
Woodworking waste...... wat's that? :wink:.......It must mean bark. The bark is dumped in an old gravel pit with the owner's permission.

Before when I did not make that much sawdust and shavings I used them to fill a hole behind the wood stacks.


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