# American terms



## Dangermouse (7 Mar 2013)

I've noticed lately in the forum and elsewhere, the use of the word Tote in place of the word Handle or Rear Handle. This is a bloody Americanism and such is creeping into our vocabulary more and more. I HATE it with a passion, even more than Jacob has for hand honing! :shock: 
So, do we have to always follow the ex-colonies over the pond or can we please keep our own words and phrases which are time honoured and BRITISH !!!!!! :twisted: :evil:


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## carlb40 (7 Mar 2013)

I agree, after all it is a handle. Like other tools such as saws, chisels, hammers etc they all come with handles - just like planes. You don't say i held the chisel by it's tote (hammer)


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## whiskywill (7 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":2ofmoc1d said:


> I HATE it with a passion



I hate it more than that. :evil:


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Mar 2013)

And I hate it even more than that!


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## bugbear (7 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":3nw4e5wi said:


> I've noticed lately in the forum and elsewhere, the use of the word Tote in place of the word Handle or Rear Handle. This is a bloody Americanism and such is creeping into our vocabulary more and more. I HATE it with a passion, even more than Jacob has for hand honing! :shock:
> So, do we have to always follow the ex-colonies over the pond or can we please keep our own words and phrases which are time honoured and BRITISH !!!!!! :twisted: :evil:




This was discussed recently:

#p735199

Short version; "tote" is both old, and English.

BugBear


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## chippy1970 (7 Mar 2013)

One that annoys me is DADO its not a dado its a housing joint at least that's what city & guilds taught me.


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Mar 2013)

BB - tote is indeed old and English - it's still an awful word for handle, imho.


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## beech1948 (7 Mar 2013)

The correct name for a handle on a plane be it a woody or metal is TOTE. Has been so for many hundreds of years. No matter what you were taught by C&G/HND etc etc it has never been named a "handle".

So why is this being challenged. Is it ignorance/ a lack of exploration to find out or merely lazyness.

The English language is pretty flexible and if you want to call it a handle then go ahead it will not be a problem. Those of us who know the real name will merely shrug, smile and get on with it.

Al


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## Jacob (7 Mar 2013)

I always thought it was american "Tote that barge! / Lift that bale! / Git a little drunk, / An' you land in jail...", but yes it's an _obsolete_ UK english word, which accounts for the fact that so many people have never heard of it until meeting it in a forum or a mag.
Handle and knob for me!


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Mar 2013)

I've bought and used tools for nearly 50 years, and other than here, I've only seen it called a tote once - that was in a mid sixties Woodworker, and that was a toat.


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## Dangermouse (7 Mar 2013)

beech1948":2bqhykrn said:


> The correct name for a handle on a plane be it a woody or metal is TOTE. Has been so for many hundreds of years. No matter what you were taught by C&G/HND etc etc it has never been named a "handle".
> 
> So why is this being challenged. Is it ignorance/ a lack of exploration to find out or merely lazyness.
> 
> ...



Well not being lazy, I have done research on the etymology of the word and every instance I can find the meaning is to carry something and the origin some say is in Viginia around 1670 ish, others say its a west african word that found its way into english from early colonization. I can see where it would change from carrying something to a name for a handle to carry something. but I still consider it not an anglo saxon base or latin root word, that is true english and in common parlence it is still considered to an american word brought into english use. 
So don't bandy about insults please, it just shows your a smug twit !


tote 1 (tt)
tr.v. tot·ed, tot·ing, totes Informal 
1. To haul; lug.
2. To have on one's person; pack: toting guns.
n.
1. Informal A load; a burden.
2. A tote bag.

Websters dictionary
I. transitive verb (toted; toting) Etymology: probably from an English-based creole; akin to Gullah & Krio tot to carry, of Bantu origin; akin to Kikongo -tota to pick up, Kimbundu -tuta to carry Date: 1677 1. to carry by hand ; bear on the person ; lug, pack2.haul, convey• toter noun II. nounDate: circa 1772


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Mar 2013)

Kernow bys vyken! Wiki gives much the same.


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## AndyT (7 Mar 2013)

bugbear":n6pcqdd1 said:


> This was discussed recently:
> 
> #p735199
> 
> ...




Quite so, and the threads are rather similar - but just in case anyone was stuck on BB's link, try this one:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/post735212.html#p735212

There must be other forums where usage of words is the subject for discussion - I just hope it warms up soon so more of us can get on with doing (and discussing) some woodwork!


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## bugbear (7 Mar 2013)

Here's a new data point; Holtzapffel - 1856 



> In the diagram, fig. 320, when the stock terminates at the dotted line, s, s, it represents the smoothing plane; when it is of the full length, and furnished with the handle or toat, it is the jack plane or panel plane; the still longer planes have the toat further removed from the iron, and it is then of the form shown in fig. 330, page 483.



BugBear


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## Dangermouse (7 Mar 2013)

I have a feeling this will be like a sharpening thread if it goes on............ and on and on and on. (hammer) 
So I now leave it never to return.  8)


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## iNewbie (7 Mar 2013)

My apologies Dangermouse. I'll get a _handle_ on not using the word Tote.


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## bugbear (7 Mar 2013)

iNewbie":psojwlup said:


> My apologies Dangermouse. I'll get a _handle_ on not using the word Tote.



I tote-ally agree.

BugBear


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## bobscarle (7 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":1e2jo8hz said:


> Well not being lazy, I have done research on the etymology of the word and every instance I can find the meaning is to carry something and the origin some say is in Viginia around 1670 ish, others say its a west african word that found its way into english from early *colonization*. I can see where it would change from carrying something to a name for a handle to carry something. but I still consider it not an anglo saxon base or latin root word, that is true english and in common parlence it is still considered to an american word brought into english use.
> So don't bandy about insults please, it just shows your a smug twit !



I find it amusing (in a strange sort of way) that a thread is started about Americanism's and how the OP objects to that, then spells a word in an American way. :shock:


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## beech1948 (7 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse said

>>>So don't bandy about insults please, it just shows your a smug twit <<<


Added you to the ignore list.


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## dazzer (7 Mar 2013)

I can't work out why the Americans use the word rabbet in wood when its a rebate :shock: 

Old Norm when he's banging the sheet materials on his saw with his Dado set to cut the Rabbet!!!!!!!!!

I cut a rebate with a rebate plane I don't use a Rabbet to cut one I give them carrots instead :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Also on the subject of Norm - how come he bangs on about safety "there is no more important piece of safety equipment than these safety glasses"

And he cutting boards on the saw with not guard or riving knife - where's the safety Norm lad :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Dave


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## MIGNAL (7 Mar 2013)

Well I hate the word Tote and I also hate the word Handle. I think we should call it a pineapple.


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## GazPal (7 Mar 2013)

I'd only ever called the rear plane handle a handle throughout my years woodworking and it's a tad late to begin naming them totes after such a period. The frequency of the word's use seems to be an americanism and internet chat forum thing, as I'd never heard anyone call a plane handle a tote in the real world. The same can be said of Le Schwarz pronunciation of spelch (It's SPELK!!!!!).  

Toat was handle, but tote is to carry (We also used to name open topped tool trays and tool bags totes), or used as another name for turf accountant.


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## Klaus Kretschmar (7 Mar 2013)

A truly interesting discussion for an outsider like me. It reminds me on similar discussions we have here in Germany, where some people try to struggle with the "Anglizisms" (English influenced terms) in the German language. Perhaps we all should relax and consider, that the world is getting smaller with the www. The influence from the web to the languages is one side, the possibility to get close to people all over the world is another side. The second one might be more important. Just my 2 cents.

Klaus


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## barkwindjammer (7 Mar 2013)

+1 Klaus


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## Dangermouse (7 Mar 2013)

Like Alf I think i've had enough of this forum. It seems to be decending into a bunch of back stabing know it all smug ******** and I can live quite well with out it. 

Good bye all.


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## barkwindjammer (7 Mar 2013)

It's stabbing-acksherly


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## Dangermouse (7 Mar 2013)

One last thing, barkwindjammer, how do you spell......**** Y O U !


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## barkwindjammer (7 Mar 2013)

Emmm..... on here ? Pineapple


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## Max Power (7 Mar 2013)

Bye :roll:


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## Tom K (7 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":fzsiajih said:


> One last thing, barkwindjammer, how do you spell......**** Y O U !


An Americanism surely it should either be F off or F yourself


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## Noel (7 Mar 2013)

What was all that about? Seriously. Anybody know? All over the word tote?


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## bobbybirds (7 Mar 2013)

All this anger over words... It is pretty funny to me!

Being Canadian, we are somewhere in the middle of English and American words and spellings. I say tote, but that is just because what I first heard it called. I said rebate and one of my buddies said "it isn't England... Call it rabbet!", so now I purposely say rebate just because I know it irritates him. I spell it honour and colour, and not honor and color (even now as I am typing this, the computer calls what I consider the proper spelling an error and underlines it in red). I type realise and customise etc, but the computer wants it to have a z (zed not zee) instead of an s. 

The list goes on and on... I have my preferences, but who really gives a "pineapple" in the grand scheme of things, and it definitely isn't anything anyone should ever get worked up about.


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## lanemaux (7 Mar 2013)

We Canuckians , eh Bobbybirds. Having a hard time getting my head around all the fuss about words. To tote or not to tote , hardly seems a question. As far as americanisms go , this one barely is a blip on the cultural radar. Far more damage is done by the young and the need to sound cooler than the rest. Then there are the very near to new languages of urban youth , gamers , 'puter nerds and so forth. As a Canuck I will just mosey on using whatever slang , venacular , lingo, you name it , that I run across. It's fun to learn a new language.


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## Vann (8 Mar 2013)

Noel":2506ghc9 said:


> What was all that about? Seriously. Anybody know? All over the word tote?


Beats me :!: :?: :!: 

I was having a chuckle at what I thought was friendly banter.

Ahh well, back to the shed.... (I jest - I'm at work  )

Cheers, Vann.


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## Sawyer (8 Mar 2013)

Mortice or mortise?


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## bugbear (8 Mar 2013)

Checking some (English) references last night, I find the Glossary of Wood (a 1948 compilation of articles from the 1930's) I find tote defined as a plane handle.

Charles Hayward "Tools for Working Wood" (1946) labels a diagram with "toat or handle", and Salaman's magisterial "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" (1975) does the same.

Adding this into the chain of Moxon and Holtzapfel, one can conclude that it's been an English piece of jargon for a very long time.

BugBear


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## GazPal (8 Mar 2013)

bugbear":6llvd4px said:


> Checking some (English) references last night, I find the Glossary of Wood (a 1948 compilation of articles from the 1930's) I find tote defined as a plane handle.
> 
> Charles Hayward "Tools for Working Wood" (1946) labels a diagram with "toat or handle", and Salaman's magisterial "Dictionary of Woodworking Tools" (1975) does the same.
> 
> ...



I agree, but the term has not been in common use in this country for quite some time. Much the same as rabbet. Although I may have a few pair of flared trousers and flare collared shirts boxed in the loft, it doesn't mean I'm going to wear them anytime sooner or later. :lol: 

One question I have is, "When did tote again become popularised as a means of naming plane handles?" Although I knew - through prior reading - it was a proper term, I've yet to hear anyone use it. This includes the older generations of cabinetmakers in my family (Including my great grandfather who apprenticed during the 1880's and remained active - pottering about - in our workshops until the late 1960's).


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## AndyT (8 Mar 2013)

One thing that anybody with more than one book on woodworking soon realises is that their authors often draw 'quite heavily' on previous works, even if it introduces misinformation. 
For example Moxon's illustrations were copied from Felebien's book, even though it meant that some of the written descriptions don't match the pictures. In the 20th century it's easy to see content from the weekly magazines being endlessly recycled into books.
So I'm quite willing to adopt the theory (without any further evidence) that successive authors mentioned the word 'tote' as an alternative to 'handle' just because previous authors had done so, _even though the term was not in widespread spoken use._

It may then have come into wider use, as more people have had some of their initial instruction about woodwork from books.


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## bugbear (8 Mar 2013)

GazPal":3j09acvl said:


> bugbear":3j09acvl said:
> 
> 
> > Checking some (English) references last night, I find the Glossary of Wood (a 1948 compilation of articles from the 1930's) I find tote defined as a plane handle.
> ...



I think it's note worthy that Hayward and Salaman also list handle, presumably considered an acceptable term.

Further, the references can't agree on the spelling - which does imply a spoken tradition, more than a written one.

The evidence seems to point to a term that was used by craftsman, not just authors, but not very often (perhaps regional variations were also involved, as per other discussions).

BugBear


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## János (8 Mar 2013)

Hello,

In my experience, naming and terminology is on the verge of chaos in all traditional handcrafts, and all languages. Standardisation of terminology is a result of the appearance of scientific/educational literature. And that has happened quite lately, in the XIXth century. 

Have a nice day,

János


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## GazPal (9 Mar 2013)

bugbear":2u3dukow said:


> GazPal":2u3dukow said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":2u3dukow said:
> ...



I agree on all points and especially so regarding Andy's comment concerning authors tending to draw upon previous writings - often word for word - when re-hashing the same information.

Hampton & Clifford also tended toward using handle instead of toat.

I've a feeling toat/tote originated with respect to the fact planes can be carried by their rear handles.


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## Admiral (9 Mar 2013)

GazPal":czrlrbxf said:


> ...snip... The frequency of the word's use seems to be an americanism and internet chat forum thing, as I'd never heard anyone call a plane handle a tote in the real world.....snip....



Brings up the question of what the 'real world' happens to be; on this side of the pond, its quite rare to see tradesmen (e.g., trim carpenters, commercial cabinet shops, and the like) who actually *use* bench planes; those who do generally make bespoke furniture and such. So there's really not that much talk about them outside of the latter cohort, and hand tool enthusiast hobbyists. Going back 20 years when I started to use hand tools, the books on the subject I read used tote to distinguish from the front knob, and then only on bench planes. Most everything else is called a handle. As noted, the term goes back a couple of centuries, and I sincerely doubt that those rebellious Americans had anything to do with it.

BTW, I thought only the French had "language police"......... but then there's the Wilde/Shaw/Churchill quote of the British and Americans being divided by a common language. I wonder which of them actually said that.


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## kirkpoore1 (9 Mar 2013)

Admiral":27j4akko said:


> GazPal":27j4akko said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, I thought only the French had "language police"......... but then there's the Wilde/Shaw/Churchill quote of the British and Americans being divided by a common language. I wonder which of them actually said that.




I always thought Mark Twain said it. But then, I'm biased, and I also say stuff like "jointer" and "planer" and "oscillating spindle sander" and "dust collector" and "drill press".

Kirk
who also says "handle" and could never understand "tote", which is a verb, not a noun...


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## Richard S (9 Mar 2013)

Well, that's 20 minutes of my life I'll never see again.


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## M P Hales (10 Mar 2013)

SNAFU

Or as we say in UK "What a co*k up"

M

If the terms used are understood by the user does it really matter :!:


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## Sawyer (10 Mar 2013)

In some cases American English still uses words and expressions which have been long obsolete on our side of the pond. Consider 'gotten' for example. A uniquely American usage? Nope - pure Chaucer, but possibly not much used in England since medieval times.
Going back further still, America retains a fondness for Latin terms (eg. who lives in a _condominium_ in Britain?). This would solve nothing though, as it leaves the problem of whether to call our plane handle 'ansa' or 'manubrium' !

So _I guess _(oh, Chaucer again!) 'tote' or 'toat', which sounds anything but a modern likely has a lengthy, perhaps largely oral lineage in British English.


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## nanscombe (10 Mar 2013)

I guess people must hate tool totes then.


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## bugbear (18 Mar 2013)

Sawyer":qy59wnvl said:


> In some cases American English still uses words and expressions which have been long obsolete on our side of the pond. Consider 'gotten' for example. A uniquely American usage? Nope - pure Chaucer, but possibly not much used in England since medieval times.
> Going back further still, America retains a fondness for Latin terms (eg. who lives in a _condominium_ in Britain?). This would solve nothing though, as it leaves the problem of whether to call our plane handle 'ansa' or 'manubrium' !
> 
> So _I guess _(oh, Chaucer again!) 'tote' or 'toat', which sounds anything but a modern likely has a lengthy, perhaps largely oral lineage in British English.



I was reading Compass over the weekend (interesting book, IMHO), and I fell across the fact that lodestone and loadstone are effectively synomyms, with neither being right nor wrong. The analogy with tote/toat is evident.

BugBear


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## John Brown (18 Mar 2013)

bobscarle":25vf2k62 said:


> Dangermouse":25vf2k62 said:
> 
> 
> > Well not being lazy, I have done research on the etymology of the word and every instance I can find the meaning is to carry something and the origin some say is in Viginia around 1670 ish, others say its a west african word that found its way into english from early *colonization*. I can see where it would change from carrying something to a name for a handle to carry something. but I still consider it not an anglo saxon base or latin root word, that is true english and in common parlence it is still considered to an american word brought into english use.
> ...


Well now, my Collins 1988 dictionary tells me that "ize" is the preferred spelling in British English. In fact, there was an Inspector Morse episode, IIRC, which hinged on this.
Personally, I blame Bill Gates for the fact that now everyone thinks "ize" is American and "ise" is British. It's hard to argue with the Word spellchecker.
Just goze to show you....


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## jakethebuilder (18 Mar 2013)

I'm really sorry I missed the beginning of this thread. I may as well offer this. I hope it doesn't anger anyone. In America, there are a lot of people returning to hand tools, after having used power tools, almost exclusively, for years. I am in that category. In middle school, in my home town, at age fourteen, all the boys took "shop class", while the girls took "home economics". We all learned to use hand tools. Shop Class was optional beyond that first year. If you took the class then, you learned to use power tools. A few years later, This Old House came along, followed by New Yankee Workshop. Thousands flocked to buy all the latest power tools. Meanwhile, Roy Underhill was quietly plodding along, doing his thing. Like me, as a lot of amateur woodworkers have gotten older, and all those power tools are sitting around unused, thoughts return to those early years, when hand tools were all that was available, or at least affordable. Now I find myself ignoring anything Norm Abrahms has on the internet, and instead, I read and watch everything with Roy Underhill and Paul Sellers. It's like returning to something fundamental, not only in my own childhood, but woodworking itself. As we "old newcomers" to working with hand tools, struggle to make up for the thirty years or so that we wasted chasing after power tools, it's easy to get caught up in trying to use all the right terminology. The first time I heard "tote" used to describe the rear handle on a plane, I thought it odd, but assumed it must be the old accepted term for it. Since a lot of American woodworking traditions are derived from British (English?) I always assumed that "tote" was from over there. Please be patient. I feel there are a lot more people like me out there. We're trying to learn. Thanks for all the discussion!


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## barkwindjammer (18 Mar 2013)

Jake !, just the very chap, maybe you could help us out with this one,
Last summer, lovely sunny day out washing the car, soaked a couple of the local youngsters to which one of them, a 9 yr old informed me that I 'was a major league douche-bag' :shock: :| , of course I had to let it pass, there was no way I could go and report the incident to her parents, there is no way I would have been able to keep a straight face (homer)


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## Phil Pascoe (18 Mar 2013)

Yes, what's a douche bag?


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## Noel (18 Mar 2013)

phil.p":38cqwh3d said:


> Yes, what's a douche bag?



Well, if you have to ask.......


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Mar 2013)

Noel":1c21oldz said:


> phil.p":1c21oldz said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, what's a douche bag?
> ...


Yes?


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## Tom K (19 Mar 2013)

phil.p":1u8zujnk said:


> Noel":1u8zujnk said:
> 
> 
> > phil.p":1u8zujnk said:
> ...



Google is your friend here but do remember to delete your browsing history lest wifey thinks your interests are becoming odd (homer)


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## Tinbasher (19 Mar 2013)

If you enjoy this thread you'll enjoy "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson.

Much of what we call " Americanisms" are often survivors of the language the first settlers took to the Americas. There it quietly got on with its own business unaffected by the numerous attempts to rationalise English spelling and usage in the 18 century.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Mar 2013)

+1 For "Mother Tongue".


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## jakethebuilder (19 Mar 2013)

The term you are asking about, if you REALLY don't know, originally referred to an apparatus used by women for personal hygiene. I won't go into any more detail than that. It is intended to be an insult, obviously. It was derived from some movie script, I presume. The term has been around in the U.S. for twenty years, at least. In recent years, it has come to be associated with someone who does or says things, in an attempt to be "cool", but fails, sometimes spectacularly.

This conversation is not quite in the same league as that posting about the 7000 year old oak well liner.


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## John Brown (19 Mar 2013)

> If you enjoy this thread you'll enjoy "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson.


Although the converse does not follow.


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## Benchwayze (19 Mar 2013)

I thought the old English word 'tote' meant to carry, (a verb) rather than as noun, for a handle. I.e., it's a verb and not a noun, (except for a method of placing a bet.)
However, it has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum, that language evolves, often due to popular usage. 
I have to put up with that, and I am '*so not' going* to change my mind', If you see what I mean!
No, I don't like calling handles a tote. It would have made a mess of the 'fork 'andles' sketch too!


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## bugbear (20 Mar 2013)

Benchwayze":14f5qiyf said:


> I thought the old English word 'tote' meant to carry, (a verb) rather than as noun, for a handle. I.e., it's a verb and not a noun, (except for a method of placing a bet.)
> However, it has been pointed out elsewhere on this forum, that language evolves, often due to popular usage.



There are also homonyms and homophones. The etymology of "rose" might be a bit interesting due to this.

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (20 Mar 2013)

What I meant was 'Tote' meaning 'The Tote' (noun), An alternative means of betting to the Licensed Betting Office, and tote, (verb) meaning to carry something. 
I can think of a few 'roses' (One in particular whom I remember with great fondness! :wink: ) and of course rows, which sounds like rows, rose, rose and Rose. 
Hmmm. Very interesting. :mrgreen:


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## John Brown (20 Mar 2013)

I think(without bothering to check), that "Tote" in betting context was an abreviation of "Totalizer/Totaliser".
Woodrow Wyatt, encountered him once. What a rude man!

OK, I had to look it up. Turns out it was short for "Totalisator".


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## Benchwayze (20 Mar 2013)

Yep! A kind of 'nickname' or shortened noun then John!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

John


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## John Brown (20 Mar 2013)

Benchwayze":2pbzy0my said:


> Yep! A kind of 'nickname' or shortened noun then John!
> 
> :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
> 
> John


??
I wasn't disagreeing or arguing with any previous posts!


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## Benchwayze (21 Mar 2013)

My wife fell and broke her hip just after I posted that last. 
So right now I am not too bothered either way. 
However, no offence was intended all the same. 

Laters


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## GazPal (21 Mar 2013)

Here's hoping your wife is doing well since her fall John.


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## Dangermouse (21 Mar 2013)

Right, here goes. I owe the forum a total and unreserved apology for being very rude and using some very inappropriate swear words in this thread. Its not like me at all, i'm usually very mild mannered, all I can say is I had a VERY bad day at work and let things get to me and it made me a crabby old fart. Again I apologize to everyone concerned and hope I may be forgiven. I have found this forum a great welcoming group of lovely people, and would be grateful of the opportunity to carry on as a member.   #-o


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## carlb40 (21 Mar 2013)

Welcome back Dangermouse, everyone is entitled to bad days


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## AndyT (21 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":3bhbzrjr said:


> Right, here goes. I owe the forum a total and unreserved apology for being very rude and using some very inappropriate swear words in this thread. Its not like me at all, i'm usually very mild mannered, all I can say is I had a VERY bad day at work and let things get to me and it made me a crabby old fart. Again I apologize to everyone concerned and hope I may be forgiven. I have found this forum a great welcoming group of lovely people, and would be grateful of the opportunity to carry on as a member.   #-o




Excellent news!

May I be the second to welcome you back - I was a bit surprised by what happened and hoped that we weren't about to lose another lively contributor, so I'm glad you said that. Let's talk about woodworking!


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## barkwindjammer (21 Mar 2013)

Welcome back DM, as I was the one that took the worst of your bile I would like you to know there are no hard feelings harboured-btw, your teas gone cold


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## GazPal (21 Mar 2013)

Never a problem and welcome back DM :wink:


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## Klaus Kretschmar (21 Mar 2013)

That's very good news, Dangermouse. I felt pretty bad because I thought that you may have found my post offending. If that was the case, I want to excuse myself since that wasn't my intention at all.

Cheers
Klaus


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## Dangermouse (21 Mar 2013)

Thanks all for the kind welcome back. Much touched!


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## Dangermouse (21 Mar 2013)

Klaus Kretschmar":2d6zu6uf said:


> That's very good news, Dangermouse. I felt pretty bad because I thought that you may have found my post offending. If that was the case, I want to excuse myself since that wasn't my intention at all.
> 
> Cheers
> Klaus



Think nothing of it Klaus, just me being a twit .


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## Dangermouse (21 Mar 2013)

barkwindjammer":230rkw9y said:


> Welcome back DM, as I was the one that took the worst of your bile I would like you to know there are no hard feelings harboured-btw, your teas gone cold



Thanks for being so understanding. now I'll have to put the kettle on again !!!! (hammer)


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## GazPal (21 Mar 2013)

Dangermouse":2g7o4iww said:


> Thanks for being so understanding. now I'll have to put the kettle on again !!!! (hammer)



Two sugars in mine DM


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## Vann (22 Mar 2013)

Yep, good to see you back.

Cheers, Vann.


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