# Kitchens



## Spectric (23 Jan 2021)

Hi all

What is the process for providing a customer with a kitchen, I know for many this is just a case of going to one of the local sheds, picking one and then getting it thrown in, exactly what I did many years ago with MFI the original chipboard flat pack merchants but I was young and followed the crowds. But what if you are looking at being different and want something more bespoke, how do you come up with a design that both meets required looks and functionality, IE how do you decide on whether to have cupboards, drawers or cupboards with drawers above or is it just a random hit and miss affair until you reach the design endpoint. I have looked at plenty of pictures and ideas but often something that looks right is not the best as far as being more practical. I like cupboards with doors, but drawers seem to be more practical. 

Any advice or peoples experience?


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## RobinBHM (23 Jan 2021)

Spectric said:


> how do you come up with a design that both meets required looks and functionality



I would think design is probably to do mostly with being in touch with latest trends.

It seems to me the trend seems to be one wall with full height units around a fridge freezer and the other walls only have base units.

Big pan drawers seem to be on trend - I'm not sure how practical they TBH.


Functionality...well it's a compromise. I would say the starting point is almost always appliance layout as that's dependant on services.


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## Rorton (23 Jan 2021)

for me I prefer cupboards without drawers as there is less bending involved to get into them, then have a bank of drawers for stuff like cutlery, utensils etc. 

Pan draws are also great. 

Always the kitchen work triangle to look at - sink cooker, fridge


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## Spectric (24 Jan 2021)

Been looking at pictures of kitchens on these forums and there is no pattern as to proportion of drawers to cupboards, pan drawers seem to be in favour but seems anything goes, if it suits you then go for it.


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## clogs (24 Jan 2021)

best to just visit a few stores for ideas...even call in a few top end places..... some good ideas out there...
also depends grately on the room size and shape....is ur's a galley kitchen for example.....
as Roton says, imagine ur working triangle then see whats left.....
lastley what ever u decide u'll see something u like after u've finished.....
it's all about experience....once u'v done a few for urself u'll realise what ya want.....

for client I have bought the units and doors from different suppliers to keep cost reasonable....
my main bug with shed kitchens is the c*rp drawer runners.....got to say I like the Germans stuff...
fully opening and strong enough to stand in....provided the drawer carcass is quality....
u have to decide is it for keeping, say 20 years, will u sell the house on in a few....?
Lastley
I had a house that was almost finished rebuilding, new everything except the kitchen.....
was ready to buy the new one.....BUT the estate agent I dealt with at the time said dont bother....
it'll fetch the same money either way.....he wasnt wrong...saved me £5,000 and he got a bottle of decent Scotch....


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## monster (25 Jan 2021)

Spectric said:


> Been looking at pictures of kitchens on these forums and there is no pattern as to proportion of drawers to cupboards, pan drawers seem to be in favour but seems anything goes, if it suits you then go for it.


I agree with that - Tailor it to suit your needs within the confines of the space you have. We went for lots of drawers rather than cupboards as the wife finds it easier to access the contents of a drawer which you can see in plan view as opposed to stooping down and rummaging inside a cupboard - As much as it pains me to admit - I have come to agree that she is right on this.

We ended up not using any wall cabinets and instead built a large pantry. The key is to make sure you have enough storage space and that everything is laid out as ergonomically as possible - don't forget things like pull out bins etc.


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## Mrs C (25 Jan 2021)

Triangle rule as above plus pan drawers.

Imagine someone in the space working. Try visualising standing next to both the hob and prep surface for the easiest place to reach for things. Do the same for unloading the dishwasher.

Also, if there is an option, put the prep surface where you can see into the distance instead of facing a wall.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

Mrs C said:


> Also, if there is an option, put the prep surface where you can see into the distance instead of facing a wall.


So prep surface not facing a wall, want some view like the sink being in front of the window which makes sense and you like pan drawers, something that keeps coming up.


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## Rorton (25 Jan 2021)

worktops - if going for something that's run of the mill laminated chipboard, best advice I had was to go with one with a pattern/texture in it as it doesn't show up the scratches as much - the glossier/smooth ones do look nice when new, but dont seem to wear as well. 

We had our kitchen from howdens, installed in 2009 - we cook a lot and its really held up to everything we throw at it. We had basic laminated worktops called basalt slate, which has a light texture to it, and its held up well. Would probably go for a solid stone one if I did it again (or corian)

We went to all the high street places with the dimensions of the kitchen, and all usually offer a free design service, so it was good to see different peoples interpretations of what is possible - we had something in mind, and then a designer came up with the idea of an american fridge freezer with units either side of it and surrounding it, which looked great and gave us so much more space. The designers that do this day in day out tend to have a good feel for what's current and what works well - take different ideas from each of them

Make sure you have soft close on the door and drawers, gives a feeling of luxury instead of doors just banging too. 

Extractor is another one I learnt the hard way, there is a calculation of how large your kitchen is and then the amount of cubic meter per hour the extractor can remove. 

Our kitchen/diner is 6m x 4m, and the calculation for that was to get an extractor that could shift 600+ m3 per hour - and we bought one that could only do half that and suffered. Recently replaced it (it was integrated into a chimney breast so not easy to find something that powerful that would fit in the space we have available


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## Rorton (25 Jan 2021)

electrical - make sure you have enough sockets, and then double it! can never have enough sockets for stuff you never think you need, microwave, kettle, toaster, phone charger(s) hifi/smart speaker, spare to plug in the vacuum cleaner etc - low level sockets for washer/dishwasher/dryer/wine fridge/fridge freezer etc, with isolation switches either in a cupboard or above the worktop

Under cabinet lighting if you have wall units too.... Some people also add some bling with led lighting in the kick/plinths at floor level. 

Dont under estimate the main room lighting too depending on room size, nice to be able to just light up some or all of the space.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

I am not looking for the latest modern look and want something more traditional and will use a standalone pantry unit on one side to keep all food products in one place. I made this decision on the basis that I used to keep all my mechanical tools in a single toolbox, if I needed any mechanical tool then I only needed to look in one place. I also do not want the kitchen cramed floor to ceiling with units so on the outside wall with the window it will be a double ceramic sink and units but nothing on the walls. So I suppose it will not be a fully fitted kitchen but still leaves the choices for the different storage options although pan drawers will be used somewhere.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

Hi Rorton

I wish my kitchen design could be as easy as the electrical aspect, I have wired so many kitchens in the past but never took any notice of the actual kitchen or layout which could now be helpful.


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## Rorton (25 Jan 2021)

maybe you could put some drawings up of the space you have available and people could contribute to the layout?


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## Tuna808 (25 Jan 2021)

The above advice is the first step,a simple layout drawing with the dimensions will help to make positive suggestions.I take it youre going to make it yourself?


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

Kitchen designers get this wrong constantly. This is because they are not there to design kitchens - they are employed to sell stuff. It will last a few years so they are not worried about repeat business. I went to a high end kitchen designer. They do top notch bespoke kitchens. The designer was a very nice bloke but he was clueless about cooking workflow for an actual cook. His focus was aesthetics. 

I have just done a very large kitchen and I made it myself. I have also done stages in a number of pro kitchens. And I cook a lot so I know exactly how I prefer to work. You may be very different. Your kitchen design should be based on your work flow. This is NOT the conventional triangle in my view. This is how I see work flow that obviously always starts with produce: 

Easy unloading and storing of dry and refrigerated and frozen produce. You will do this at least every week and maybe more often. You want bag drop, easy cleaning and easy access to fridge, freezer and larder. (In my case this is all in the utility area which is accessed directly from the parking area. I have a drawer pull prep fridge in the kitchen, beneath the prep area).
Preparation (or mise en place). This involves gathering from storage, prepping the food ready for cooking, and disposal of waste (food and wrappings). Prep is the most important part of cooking and the prep area uses most space and is the part invariably missed out of the so called triangle. It may be slightly different too if you do lots of baking or pastry (cold area is best). 
For prep, you need to have easy access to water, and to the hob and ovens. Stuff that comes off the hob often has to go into the oven (colour meat then roast for example) and yet many designs do not address this. You also need somewhere to put hot pans down when they come out of the ovens. I use three ovens so I made sure that I have a "cook" area (hob, ovens and plating) that is listing from my prep area (directly opposite my sink and close to all bins). 
We need to plate up (service). So you need a clean space in easy reach of the ovens and hob. Usually the same as the prep area in domestic kitchens. 
Then we need easy access to dishwashing and somewhere to put the dirty stuff. In my case this is all in a clean down area in the utility room. This is because my kitchen is also a family room and I don't want the noise of dishwashers. 

Before you do anything, think about extraction and drainage. Many good quality kitchens are now using downdraught extractors (eg Bora) built into the hobs. These are much better extracted to outside rather than recirculated, so if you want the hob in an Island, underfloor vent channels are necessary. 

Think about drainage. I installed a grease trap. They are cheap and you will never get blocked drains. 

If you want see a good set up, watch James Martin's weekend cooking show on Saturday morning TV. He is using super expensive gear: 3 phase Athanor commercial induction etc. plus Wolf ovens and sub zero cooling, but ignore that and look at the workflow. His is a square. Fridge and ovens and sink in a line behind him. Prep in front of him, and hobs, deep fryers etc. to his left directly off the prep boards. This is pretty similar to his set up in commercial kitchens. It's obviously compressed for TV and the arrangements are a bit odd at the moment due to Covid distancing (so he is using a silly little board and keeping gusts 2 metres away) but the work flow is clear. What you don't see is that he also has undercounted mise on place fridges. 

Kitchens these days can be a huge investment. So I would plan by workflow, not by looking in showrooms. 

In my build, in the actual kitchen, practically everything is in big drawers, using Blum push to open and soft close. Far more efficient than cupboards as there is no inaccessible back bit with a load of stuff in front.


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## peter-harrison (25 Jan 2021)

One thing I always ask my clients is what they dislike about their present kitchen. Price also figures- drawers more expensive than doors which are more than open shelves.


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## doctor Bob (25 Jan 2021)

AJB Temple said:


> Kitchen designers get this wrong constantly. This is because they are not there to design kitchens - they are employed to sell stuff. It will last a few years so they are not worried about repeat business. I went to a high end kitchen designer. They do top notch bespoke kitchens. The designer was a very nice bloke but he was clueless about c cooking workflow for an actual cook. His focus was aesthetics.
> 
> I have just done a very large kitchen and I made it myself. I have also done stages in a number of pro kitchens. And I cook a lot so I know exactly how I prefer to work. You may be very different. Your kitchen design should be based on your work flow. This is NOT the conventional triangle in my view. This is how I see work flow that obviously always starts with produce:
> 
> ...



Great post, however a lot of clients don't cook.


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## peter-harrison (25 Jan 2021)

And I agree with AJB Temple above about drawers being better than doors. However, the drawers I use come in at at least £110 each when you add up boxes, runners, fitting etc. People often have a lot of stuff in their kitchens (fondue set/ spiralizer etc) that they rarely use, so spending a lot for easy access to those items seems a bit overkill.


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## doctor Bob (25 Jan 2021)

peter-harrison said:


> And I agree with AJB Temple above about drawers being better than doors. However, the drawers I use come in at at least £110 each when you add up boxes, runners, fitting etc. People often have a lot of stuff in their kitchens (fondue set/ spiralizer etc) that they rarely use, so spending a lot for easy access to those items seems a bit overkill.



I'll have you know I used my spiralizer only last decade, and definately got the fondue set out just last millenium.


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> Great post, however a lot of clients don't cook.


This made me laugh. It's true. The kitchen designer I referred to, told us all about a kitchen he had done for a Russian client. Serious money. But he mentioned that she likes to cook "occasionally" when she is in the UK. 

In a past life I used to be a property developer for a while - converting country houses. We would do 1o to 12 kitchens at a time, all subbed out to a firm who made all the cabinets. The entire focus was on the kitchens looking good and being on trend so we could sell the units. Never considered work flow at all.


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I'll have you know I used my spiralizer only last decade, and definately got the fondue set out just last millenium.


Dr B - you need to get with it mate. Spiralizers are coming back into fashion. They are apparently a recommended part of the vegan arsenal and brilliant for turning courgettes into vegan pasta (no egg, or gluten for that matter). My wife has a kitchen garden and produces ludicrous quantities of courgettes, so I have tried the spiralizing thing and can confirm that it produces nothing that resembles pasta except briefly prior to cooking. Courgette salad is fabulous with lemon and chilli if you are vegan and even better a coeliac vegan as a friend of mine is. 'Fabulous' is a term only used by vegans to describe courgette, which is in fact a dwarf marrow and in truth tastes of nothing, just like marrow.


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## porker (25 Jan 2021)

I am a bit of an advocate of courgetti as I'm on a very low carb diet due to diabetes. Worth trying as its not half as bad as you think its going to be as a replacement for pasta. It takes up the flavour of the sauce. I am usually very wary of anything that proports to be some sort of replacement for something else but they're pretty good. The spiralizer gets a lot of use in our kitchen.


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## doctor Bob (25 Jan 2021)

My wife went vegan for about 1 year, it was Ok, marrow would be a low point for me along with chick peas and lentils.
Liked the soups and pasta things.
Overall a bit limited on choice but OK.


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## Ollie78 (25 Jan 2021)

Some great stuff here AJB Temple has done a great explanation.
I would say remember the "work triangle" , when cooking you need regular access to the oven/hob the sink/bin and the cutting or prep area.
You should ideally be able to reach all of them without having to walk about. This makes for efficient work and less annoyance.

Consider door opening direction and drawer position when they are actually open.
I have fitted a few kitchens designed by "kitchen designers" where it soon became apparent that I would need to "re-design it a bit" on site because doors were clashing and stupid stuff like that.
Kitchens should be designed by chefs not "kitchen designers / sales fools"

Also don`t forget smaller things like where will the kettle go? knife block? mixer? it would be annoying to have a smart new kitchen and nowhere to make a
brew.
I am not a fan of fitted appliances either, why do the dishwasher and fridge have to be in disguise? When it breaks after 6 years and you get a new one then you can`t get a new door from anywhere because styles have changed and the old door won`t fit the new machine.
Just get one with a reaosonably attractive appearance on its own.

For me if I re-do my kitchen (this will require an extension) I will probably not have hardly any fitted stuff but a fixed cooker and sink part with everything else as seperate furniture and a nice big table in the middle.

Ollie


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## --Tom-- (25 Jan 2021)

I’m with AJB, the designer focused on the look, I made sure it work for me as the cook of the house.

Ours is mostly off the shelf bits but needed some customising to fit my hob, which is huge. 

Also worth thinking about noise, not a single designer we spoke to considered it, we didn’t go top end so not that surprising, but things like having an in line motor for the extractor so it could be tucked over the utility out of the way have made a huge difference. Barely anyone I know uses their extractor as it’s so loud, whereas ours is virtually silent on low.


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## jimmy_s (25 Jan 2021)

I'm in the throws of sorting out a design for our kitchen, but need to extend the house first. I'm the cook in our house but my wife wants to have final say on appearance so its looking like we will be having part fitted and part freestanding. I just do what I'm told in the end and will just have to get on with making it. Unfortunately for me she likes shabby chiq or whatever its called, personally I hate it but no point in arguing.

I think if the kitchen is of a reasonable size then the work triangle idea starts to become impractical and you need to look into stations as AJB suggests. Lighting and decent ventilation are also very important. Try and get the extract fans away from the canopy as they tend to be noisy otherwise.

My wife's vegetarian. I've tried that spiralised green stuff - not sure if it was cucumber or corgette but it wasn't for me. But the wost is the mother in laws squash casserole - not for the mouth of humans I'm afraid. Was akin to eating a thick lump of wallpaper paste with a layer of cheese on top. Good for checking your gag reflex, that was about it.

We've been working on a commercial kitchen recently for a high end restarurant that will be going for Michelin Stars soon, thats the intention at least. The main chefs have been brought in from France. Its the first high end kitchen I've been involved with that has gone completely electric. All the hobs are induction (often its gas or a mixture of gas and induction). The main cooking range was built in france at a cost of about £140k and consists of induction hobs, sous vide baths, griddles and a fryer from memory. The whole thing came over in one bit with a massive stainless steel top, it must be 5 or 6m long.


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

Ollie78 said:


> Some great stuff here AJB Temple has done a great explanation.
> I would say remember the "work triangle" , when cooking you need regular access to the oven/hob the sink/bin and the cutting or prep area.
> 
> Ollie



See my post - it's not really a triangle. That is a kitchen shop misunderstanding. Each process may be a triangle but they require different things for restocking / preparation / actual cooking / clean down. The workflows may overlap but there are several points of contact in a kitchen and designers always ignore prep, which for a cook (rather than a warmer upper of pre made stuff) is the most important and biggest user of space often. 

Good point from Tom about noise. I did the same, moving all noisy stuff to well insulated utility area.


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## jimmy_s (25 Jan 2021)

I see Tom's already mentioned the fan lol


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

jimmy_s said:


> We've been working on a commercial kitchen recently for a high end restarurant that will be going for Michelin Stars soon, thats the intention at least. The main chefs have been brought in from France. Its the first high end kitchen I've been involved with that has gone completely electric. All the hobs are induction (often its gas or a mixture of gas and induction). The main cooking range was built in france at a cost of about £140k and consists of induction hobs, sous vide baths, griddles and a fryer from memory. The whole thing came over in one bit with a massive stainless steel top, it must be 5 or 6m long.



These big commercial islands can be amazing, but super expensive. I've worked on a few (as an amateur) and I like the Athanor ones. When fully specced 3 phase they come with Induction, refrigeration, griddle, fryers etc and ovens if you want. Practically every commercial high end kitchen now uses National multifunction programmable ovens now. I wish I could justify one at home! Michelin level kitchens use a lot of gear these days, with Pacojets and such like now at £5k a pop. All new fit outs seem to use Induction. Makes for a much quieter and cooler kitchen.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

Hi

Some great info, I like the way AJB describes his flow, I can relate to that from having worked in some large production enviroments where raw materials and components come in one end, then pre assembly and component prep before the main assembly lines and then waste material disposed of and a final product.

Having trawled for more info it also looks like you can have the functionality with the aesthetics, can have cabinet doors that open to reveal pull out drawers if you prefer the look of doors or doors that look like drawers if you prefer this look so the workflow has to be what guides the design and location of storage and then make it look like what you want.


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## jimmy_s (25 Jan 2021)

The range on this one was supplied by a company called Enodis, it was made in france. The power supply to the site was already three phase but has had to be upgraded from 250amps per phase to 400amps per phase to handle the kitchen. I am hoping to get a better look at the hobs before it opens as they seem to be inset into a lump of stainless which looks like its been cut on a CNC waterjet machine. The ovens here are Rational jobs - amazing bits of kit. On another forum I frequent I note that they must be prone to breaking down however. The guy on that forum recomended Merrychef Eikons but I'n not sure the 2 ovens are comparable, I was looking into this yesterday.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

Hi

While we are talking kitchens, what about frying pans. I currently use the Titanium cookware from Woll and the saucepans I cannot fault but the frying pan has not done as well, looks like it now has small blisters and is not as non stick as when new, it is 4 years old so I would say end of life anyway. So buy another Woll or what?


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2021)

That kitchen requires 300 Kw of power, no wonder that Al Carte restaurants charge so much, it is to cover the electricity bill.


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## jimmy_s (25 Jan 2021)

Sorry I can't recommend any non stick frying pans, anything I've bought has failed to last.

With regards to the commercial kitchen - I think they just about had heart failure when we told them, as the upgrading costs are considerable. The connected load of these kitchens is massive. Plus its impossible to allow any sort of meaningful diversity to the equipment as we don't know how its all going to be used.


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## Nigel Burden (25 Jan 2021)

Spectric said:


> Hi
> 
> While we are talking kitchens, what about frying pans. I currently use the Titanium cookware from Woll and the saucepans I cannot fault but the frying pan has not done as well, looks like it now has small blisters and is not as non stick as when new, it is 4 years old so I would say end of life anyway. So buy another Woll or what?



The best non stick frying pan that we've had in recent years believe it or not came from Ikea. It only cost £5, admittedly it was on offer, about five or six years ago, and has only lost the non stick in the last six months. Just replaced it with another from Ikea. Hopefully that will last as well.

Nigel.


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## AJB Temple (25 Jan 2021)

jimmy_s said:


> The range on this one was supplied by a company called Enodis, it was made in france. The power supply to the site was already three phase but has had to be upgraded from 250amps per phase to 400amps per phase to handle the kitchen. I am hoping to get a better look at the hobs before it opens as they seem to be inset into a lump of stainless which looks like its been cut on a CNC waterjet machine. The ovens here are Rational jobs - amazing bits of kit. On another forum I frequent I note that they must be prone to breaking down however. The guy on that forum recomended Merrychef Eikons but I'n not sure the 2 ovens are comparable, I was looking into this yesterday.



My wife used to work for Merrychef and Convotherm. They are very similar to Nationals (and come from near to each other - I think one was a spin off from the other). The big problem with all commercial ovens is that they get a tremendous amount of abuse and outside of lockdown that use can be more than 18 hours out of 24 if they are also used outside prep and service for an overnight baking cycle or as a SV. From her experiences, it is difficult to persuade kitchen operators to observe the oven service requirements. But they moan a lot when the oven breaks down anyway. 

Commercial induction is radically different to even high end domestic. The glass can be up to 8mm thick and I have seen them bring a large diameter pan of water or sauce for reduction to the boil in 20 seconds. (so when you see professional guys on TV say this will cook in 2 minutes you can safely ignore that as you will be stood over the hob for much longer). 

Non-stick is knackered inside 6 months commercially, whatever you do. Most people seem to buy a shed load of DeBuyer or the clones and replace as needed. You can make them last if you baby them - no heating dry, no overheating on a big ring, no sticking them under the salamander, no stacking a dozen pans by the stove, no metal tools, no abrasives in the wash room or dishwasher. But then there is the real world.


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## --Tom-- (25 Jan 2021)

Frying pan, get carbon steel and season it, decent pan will last forever, and I find better for most things compared to cast iron


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## Nigel Burden (25 Jan 2021)

--Tom-- said:


> Frying pan, get carbon steel and season it, decent pan will last forever, and I find better for most things compared to cast iron



Yes, my wife has just done that with a wok. Had a non stick previously, the guy in the local Chinese supermarket recommended buying a carbon steel one. They sell them already seasoned if you don't want to do it yourself.

Nigel.


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## doctor Bob (25 Jan 2021)

How do you season a pan, dash of salt n peepper ................ I suspect not, serious question?


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## Nigel Burden (25 Jan 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> How do you season a pan, dash of salt n peepper ................ I suspect not, serious question?
> 
> To quote from Paul Hollywoods Bread book.
> 
> ...


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## jimmy_s (25 Jan 2021)

Bob

I think you basically heat it up and slap some oil on it. I think it must polymerise to form a protective layer


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## Bm101 (25 Jan 2021)

Mate of mine is a roofer who loves to cook. When he did his kitchen a few months back he went to town. One (of many) things I was impressed with was the extraction. Rather than overhead his vents popped up around the hobs while in use. The inline extraction then went out under the floor with fans system accessible under the hob. No idea of the efficiency compared to overhead but he was very happy and and it was silent by any normal standard.
I was very jealous of his kitchen.


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## Bm101 (25 Jan 2021)

Bob, you oil it, wipe it, turn it upside down and bang it in a hot oven about 200 for an hour. Then as you use it (without metal utensils) it keeps getting better. To wash your pan you 'deglaze' it if you're a cooky type. If you a kitchen fitter of reknown with no real sense of taste who doesn't mind if his Mrs goes _*shudders*_ veee- gan and starts feeding you marrow insead of roast beef, or a window cleaner, what you do is stick it under the tap while the pan is still roasting hot. It cleans itself. Give it an occasional thin wipe of oil.
That's it. Like everything there are types who use specific oils with higher cooking temps and stand on one leg during a blood moon and so on but I've never got beyond a bit of rape seed oil. It works fine.
Never tried carbon steel but I would. Lot lighter and it works alright for the Chinese who know a _little_ about frying food. I read once that the size of China's population and lack of timber accessible for cooking is what led to cooking methods that favour a fast fry. Not sure it's true but makes a lot of sense.
Anyway back to kitchen design. It's been mentioned but looking down the garden is nice if you can. Ours is on hold at the moment due to current events, but I'm looking to plan it all around looking down my little garden.


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## --Tom-- (25 Jan 2021)

Mostly it just seasons through use, the more you use it the better it gets. 

Mine are from Alex Pole Ironwork, they get them handspun in the UK and then forge and river on the handles. A bit spendy but great to use. At least one of them gets used everyday.
The smallest is perfect for a fried egg or small Spanish tortilla.


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## glenfield2 (26 Jan 2021)

A very quick comment on worktops - we have slimline (22mm deep) laminate worktops in ‘carrera marble’ finish which fool visitors into thinking they are the real thing they touch them. And they were less than half the price of course. 
Our dark grey diy-kitchens units with these tops look the dog’s rowlocks (in my entirely unbiased opinion.)


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## Robbo60 (26 Jan 2021)

clogs said:


> best to just visit a few stores for ideas...even call in a few top end places..... some good ideas out there...
> also depends grately on the room size and shape....is ur's a galley kitchen for example.....
> as Roton says, imagine ur working triangle then see whats left.....
> lastley what ever u decide u'll see something u like after u've finished.....
> ...


I recently bought a drawer carcass from B & Q including soft close runners and it was excellent. £24 mind. Metal, clipped together then screwed. Once drawer front was fixed it even had a small amount of vertical and horizontal adjustment to get perfectly lined up. Would definitely but again


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## xy mosian (26 Jan 2021)

If the kitchen has two doors. Make a layout that doesn't obstruct the path between the two. The thought of having a running child colliding with a hot pan of spuds being lifted from the hob is terrible.
Another point. I have a friend who has a narrowish kitchen. The new units have soft close drawers, she frequently catches her hips on drawers which are yet to finish closing.
Ovens with drop down doors mean that reaching in for a roast invloves stretching over a hot, possibly very hot, oven door.
Ovens with grills in the top, or above, mounted below the worktop, make life difficult if you enjoy watching your toast change colour, or get a heavy tan.
Just a couple of points to think about.
xy


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## Jelly (26 Jan 2021)

AJB Temple said:


> 'Fabulous' is a term only used by vegans to describe courgette, which is in fact a dwarf marrow and in truth tastes of nothing, just like marrow.



The best thing about eating courgettes, is that at least you're not eating an even larger quantity of marrows!




Nigel Burden said:


> "Brush the surface with lard or oil and put it in a hot oven for about an hour. Turn off the oven and leave it overnight."
> Olive oil would smoke though, so I would avoid that. I think the Chinese you Groundnut oil.
> 
> Nigel.



I find edible linseed oil (often sold as flax seed oil) works best for seasoning pans, you can get a good film thickness, which will allow the coating to self heal, and if badly scratched can be touched up with extra oil and heat without needing to strip it and re-coat loosing all the "wok hei"


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## pe2dave (26 Jan 2021)

A suggestion: Visit as many kitchen builders as you can: Note, unit designs, sizes etc.
(Ahem)
Ask a couple of designer / sellers to quote your kitchen and note the suggestions (carefully)
Get out your drawing board (What! you don't have one!) and design your kitchen.
IMHO
Spend as much as you can afford on the units, sink, taps. Used daily? worth spending on (IMHO).
Choice:
Fit it yourself.
Get supplier to fit it (more likely, one of his subbies).

Think about:
Underfloor heating (we love it - warm kitchen floor first thing in the morning? Wonderful). And! It frees up wall space (where rads were) for storage.
Unit height? "Higher" units (within 4" of ceiling) offer much more storage, but pipper up range extractor run. Take your pick.

We now store pans in a 'big' drawer... it works for us. YMMV

New kitchen 2019, supplied / fitted by Magnet. Review? All good except faux marble worktop. Stick to 2" chipboard is my advice. I dare not put a hot cup on this damn stuff - even if it does look "lovely"... Pah.


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## Spectric (26 Jan 2021)

Hi

Yes I think the underfloor heating is good in a kitchen, as you say frees up valuable wall space. Been a lot of years since I got near a drawing board, computers freed up a lot of space once occupied by the large drawing offices of old. We had a similar issue with hot items on our Iroka worktops before we moved, but at least they could be cleaned and re oiled, ended up with cast trivets everywhere.


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