# Everest front door, £4,250?!!



## JohnPW (31 Aug 2013)

Hello all,

A relative has just ordered a new front door from Everest, the price is £4,250, WTF??!!!! :evil: 

It's white PVCu with a small glass panel near the top, "sealed unit type: energy saver plus", also "cladding - roofline (front).

I had a look at one of the DIY sheds and PVCu front doors go from £200 to £650. Are they charging £2,000 for fitting (the home visit salesman prob got £1,000 commision)?


BTW there's nothing wrong with the current door, except the small panels have some slight splits at the end grain edge, which is easily fixable, I would have thought. I think the relative just wants to spend some money.


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## Graham Orm (31 Aug 2013)

JohnPW":1fl6wutz said:


> Hello all,
> 
> A relative has just ordered a new front door from Everest, the price is £4,250, WTF??!!!! :evil:
> 
> ...



They have 7 days to cancel if they were approached, if they contacted Everest there is no cancellation time at all. They have been royally ripped off.


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## Duncan A (31 Aug 2013)

Yes but the offer only stands for one week, then it goes up to its full price!

Duncan


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## JohnPW (31 Aug 2013)

Oh yeah there's a %25 "discount" of £1,600 otherwise it would have been £5,900!

On the back of the form/purchase agreement theres a 7 days "notice of the right to cancel notice" box, which means they can cancel even if they contacted Everest, I hope. And that's how it should be.

The worrying thing is I'm not sure the relative wants to cancel. Before making the order, I did tell them the B and Q down the road sell doors starting from £200.


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## Steve Maskery (31 Aug 2013)

Will you send me your relative's contact details please, I'm sure I can supply them with all sort of things...
S


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## Graham Orm (31 Aug 2013)

JohnPW":1xz3jxe0 said:


> Oh yeah there's a %25 "discount" of £1,600 otherwise it would have been £5,900!
> 
> On the back of the form/purchase agreement theres a 7 days "notice of the right to cancel notice" box, which means they can cancel even if they contacted Everest, I hope. And that's how it should be.
> 
> The worrying thing is I'm not sure the relative wants to cancel. Before making the order, I did tell them the B and Q down the road sell doors starting from £200.



Sorry but that's there for people who have been canvassed. The law says that if you contacted the seller then you instigated the deal, therefore weren't pressured. No cancellation if they rang Everest.

Any window company will do the job for £1000 or less. The Everest stuff is good.....but not that good!


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## Hivenhoe (31 Aug 2013)

It may be worth contacting TS's, they 're also interested in shysters as well as poor workmen.
Average pvc door s & f'd should be no more than £1200, if composite max £1800 and these are at the top end.
However if they are of sound mind etc.............


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## Lons (31 Aug 2013)

Hi John

what you don't give is the extent of the cladding which might well cost as much as the door.

It will probably be a composite door which are a bit more expensive than PVCu but they are still being stuffed even by Everest standards. A friend had an Alpine door fitted a few years back which cost him £1800 and that was comparible quality and still way over priced. I would expect to pay no more than £1500 to £2000 for a top spec door.

As an example, I'm building a largish stone porch for a customer and here is a pic taken yesterday of the 4 windows and 1 composited door I'm busy fitting. All excellent quality from a manufacturer I've used for years including on my own house. I've charged including manufacture delivery of 75 miles (but excluding fitting as part of the build costs), at £2236 FOR THE LOT which is 1 door and 2 small / 2 large windows, and I've made a very healthy profit indeed on it. My customers are delighted!

I suggest they stronly query the price.

Cheers
Bob
.


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## JohnPW (31 Aug 2013)

Grayorm":1znielzz said:


> JohnPW":1znielzz said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah there's a %25 "discount" of £1,600 otherwise it would have been £5,900!
> ...



I felt sick in the stomach after reading that. I'm thinking if the customer can cancel if the company made the first contact then surely the customer can also cancel if they contacted the company first. In fact the customer has the same rights in both situations.

From:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/c ... p_sale.htm



> What if I make an appointment over the phone?
> 
> If you make an appointment for someone to call at your home or workplace over the phone and then sign up for something at home or work, this is a doorstep sale.
> 
> If you buy something over the phone without someone calling at your home or workplace, this is another type of sale called a distance sale. Distance sales also give you extra rights to cancel, but these are slightly different from doorstep sales.



http://www.bristol.gov.uk/page/your-right-cancel


> Contracts made at home (or at your workplace)
> Since October 2008 there are improved cancellation rights if you agree to buy something during a visit by a trader, *whether or not you invited the trader to visit*.
> If you make a contract for over £35 with a trader in your own home (or someone elses), or at your workplace, for goods and/or services:
> 
> ...



http://whatconsumer.co.uk/cooling-off-and-cancellations/


> Buying from a doorstep seller
> 
> If you have bought something costing more than £35.00 from a trader as a result of a visit to your home or place of work* (whether or not the visit was requested by you)*, you will be protected by the Doorstep selling Regulations – or to give it its proper title: The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008. These regulations give you a cooling off period of 7 calendar days during which time you have the right to cancel and get a full refund. Just as with the Distance Selling Regulations, you must have been provided with a notice of your cancellation rights, otherwise the agreement may be legally unenforceable



More info:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/c ... ntract.htm


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## No skills (31 Aug 2013)

Surely some mistake? I get annoyed when people charge 1K+ for one of those pig ugly piles of rubbish, if they want to waste money cant they go on a couple of holidays instead?

:shock:


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## Tom K (31 Aug 2013)

If they tell Everest they are having second thoughts (assuming they haven't paid yet) the price will quickly drop.


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## Baldhead (31 Aug 2013)

I knew an Everest salesman, he was one of the top ten salesmen in the country, he has won an all expenses paid holiday to Monaco, a new Mini and numerous other high quality prizes, Everest stuff is good quality but not worth the money they charge, also if you can cancel the price will drop, by a large amount.

Baldhead


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## Graham Orm (31 Aug 2013)

JohnPW":33m6lksb said:


> If you have bought something costing more than £35.00 from a trader as a result of a visit to your home or place of work* (whether or not the visit was requested by you)*, you will be protected by the Doorstep selling Regulations – or to give it its proper title: The Cancellation of Contracts made in a Consumer’s Home or Place of Work etc Regulations 2008. These regulations give you a cooling off period of 7 calendar days during which time you have the right to cancel and get a full refund. Just as with the Distance Selling Regulations, you must have been provided with a notice of your cancellation rights, otherwise the agreement may be legally unenforceable



More info:
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/c ... ntract.htm[/quote]

Thanks for that info. I was unaware of the change in October '08. Prior to that you were tied to the deal if you invited them in.


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## UTMonkey (1 Sep 2013)

My experience of buying a door isn't as bad, but I should have been more switched on.

We got cold called outside the supermarket by a door\window firm and as we had planned to replace our front door we agreed for someone to come out for a quote.

The chap came over stating they had an offer on composite doors that week and he quoted us £1200, reduced from 2500.

So we went for it the door was installed and we were happy.

Two years later, the door is damaged by some building work we have done, the builder accepts responsibility and agrees to replace.

Cost for replacement to the builder......... £400! Albeit no labor in that.

Apart for some detail in the glass it is exactly the same door.


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## MrYorke (1 Sep 2013)

You've said in your posts that you're unsure if the relative actually wants to cancel & that they may just want to pay silly money for it. 

If they want to spend stupid money then why get in a tizz. Surely it's your relatives problem if they are getting shafted not yours. Don't get me wrong, it would be a shame for them to go through with it and rightly so your worried about it but sometimes there is no telling someone if they "just want to spend the money" to perhaps show off!

Unless of course it could be future inheritance they are spending! ;-)


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## Hitch (1 Sep 2013)

Let me guess, this is an elderly relative?
My Grandad has wasted shed loads of money paying way over the odds for things in recent years. (hes in his 90s)

Latest was 2 small electric heaters, 3k or so iirc.
I priced up the equivalent heaters, about £600. Wiring in place already, just mount on the wall, and get a spark to connect... £1k tops, but he wasnt interested, hed fallen for the sales mans pitch. They gave him a £500 off voucher for the next order he places, generous eh :shock: 

Mind you, hes been buying packets of sweets for £10 a pop, £4.95 delivery, and £2.95 to fast track the order so he gets into the prize draw for the non existent £8000. :x :x 
No matter who tells him, no matter what leaflets or reports we give him, he just wont have it. :roll:


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## Graham Orm (1 Sep 2013)

Hitch":3ldh46hg said:


> Let me guess, this is an elderly relative?
> My Grandad has wasted shed loads of money paying way over the odds for things in recent years. (hes in his 90s)
> 
> Latest was 2 small electric heaters, 3k or so iirc.
> ...



I don't know whats worse, the fact that he's at the point where he doesn't realise or the lack of morals of the people taking his money. Does he have dementia?


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## Lons (1 Sep 2013)

Grayorm":34jp2q2r said:


> Hitch":34jp2q2r said:
> 
> 
> > Let me guess, this is an elderly relative?
> ...



I'm not sure it needs to be dementia.

My 86 year old mother in law is pretty switched on for her age but luckily we've drummed into her to run everything past us before she does anything and the result is a string of scams that she would have fallen for.

The last was an unsolicited clothing catalogue through the door which would if she placed an order for £30 "give her foc" a smart TV worth £1500. The key was she needed to order immediately and she was desperate to do so.
It wasn't until I pointed out that probably everyone in the estate got the same catalogue, they didn't have her name, and how on earth could she expect to get a free tv worth 50x more than the cardigan she would buy, did she begin to see it as it was.

She doesn't need the cardigan or the TV and is financially comfortable but the scams target the greedy side of human nature which can't resist a "bargain".

Bob


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## Hitch (1 Sep 2013)

Grayorm":5k52516u said:


> Hitch":5k52516u said:
> 
> 
> > Let me guess, this is an elderly relative?
> ...




Sharp as a pin really. Not dementia, said that to the wife. Shes junior management in a dementia care home, so knows a bit about it.
I think people of that generation just dont expect other people to be so dishonest... they tend believe anything these offers are real.
Heading a bit of a tangent from the main post here, sorry!


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## adzeman (1 Sep 2013)

Purchasing PVCu doors (or windows) can be a minefield, at the Council we were members of the South London Window Association a body designed to bring uniformity into the process. Standardising locks catches etc. and I would attend the meetings. What I found was there is a fast difference in quality in the products both in material adn quality of material, construction and source of material and price. I have to say that Everest were always expensive always failed to make the lists. We were always being checked over by The Friends of the Earth mainly on the source of the plastic (chemicals) as in the 90’s a lot of the material was coming from Eastern Europe where pollution was not a priority. All factory’s had to be checked out. We had some hairy demonstrations to contend with. Some groups are against PVCu no matter what. When the orders were placed a process was entered with tenants who had taken up the option of “Right to Buy” and they would be given the cost buy which they would be charged and then the arguments would start! On average the cost of a front door was in the region of £2,000 pounds. The first complaint would be, there’s a bloke out side our supermarket offering me a door for £500.00 and then we would have discussions on quality security etc. an important factor on an inner London Estate. My point is there are many factors in the price of a PVCu door and If your relation wants to cancel then cancel, the Law will I am sure back him up.
Cheers


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## Lons (1 Sep 2013)

adzeman":2ttht7mz said:


> Purchasing PVCu doors (or windows) can be a minefield, at the Council we were members of the South London Window Association a body designed to bring uniformity into the process. Standardising locks catches etc. and I would attend the meetings. What I found was there is a fast difference in quality in the products both in material adn quality of material, construction and source of material and price. I have to say that Everest were always expensive always failed to make the lists. We were always being checked over by The Friends of the Earth mainly on the source of the plastic (chemicals) as in the 90’s a lot of the material was coming from Eastern Europe where pollution was not a priority. All factory’s had to be checked out. We had some hairy demonstrations to contend with. Some groups are against PVCu no matter what. When the orders were placed a process was entered with tenants who had taken up the option of “Right to Buy” and they would be given the cost buy which they would be charged and then the arguments would start! On average the cost of a front door was in the region of £2,000 pounds. The first complaint would be, there’s a bloke out side our supermarket offering me a door for £500.00 and then we would have discussions on quality security etc. an important factor on an inner London Estate. My point is there are many factors in the price of a PVCu door and If your relation wants to cancel then cancel, the Law will I am sure back him up.
> Cheers



With all due respect though, the local authorities and other public groups don't always get the best value for money in my experience.

I used to supply semi finished plastics and were sometimes not on the lists of approved suppliers. I supplied exactly the same brand and quality materials but up to 30% cheaper than the approved companies whilst still making an acceptable margin. I still got much of the business as the clerks of works and buyers would just split up the orders to keep the invoiced ammounts under the limits for them to buy without requisitions.

I supplied a lot of sheet polycarbonate for example and 6mm thick in a bus shelter at 30% less cost was a large saving. Just because a door costs £2k doesn't meen thats what it's worth in terms of quality!
Even more for the prisons on wall cladding and polycarbonate where I was horrified to find that the "prefered supplier" was selling at full retail and charged delivery on top!
It was 25 years ago so might be different not though somehow I doubt it.

Bob


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## Hardwood66 (1 Sep 2013)

When I was at college I was offered a place working for/with said company as as a wooden door advise person basically seamed good money so went in for a training day after 20 mins off being told to basically add my own commission and target old people so you can get more I picked up the piece of paper with all my details on and walked out with our a word! There sick people


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## adzeman (1 Sep 2013)

> With all due respect though, the local authorities and other public groups don't always get the best value for money in my experience.



Your not wrong but we did try with success. When we did large schemes we usually got it right as there were a number of checks and balances to go through. Where it would go wrong would be in February when some Neighbourhood manager had a substantial sum to spend before the end of the financial year and get that bloke from outside the supermarket to install windows and doors on some of his stock then I would spend some of my repair budget over the next 5 years trying to maintain the rubbish ironmongery and poor seals. I have not even mentioned the codensation. Thats life


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## Lons (1 Sep 2013)

adzeman":3qkcxlxv said:


> > With all due respect though, the local authorities and other public groups don't always get the best value for money in my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> Your not wrong but we did try with success. When we did large schemes we usually got it right as there were a number of checks and balances to go through. Where it would go wrong would be in February when some Neighbourhood manager had a substantial sum to spend before the end of the financial year and get that bloke from outside the supermarket to install windows and doors on some of his stock then I would spend some of my repair budget over the next 5 years trying to maintain the rubbish ironmongery and poor seals. I have not even mentioned the codensation. Thats life



Definately a no win position to be in Mike and I well remember the crazy requests we had at end of budget year when they needed to spend it or lose it!

I have had some interesting encounters with the local authority though. As self employed builder I was approached a few years ago and asked to build a brick wall housing a sandstone nameplate outside the county hall offices at very short notice. This was in preparation for a visit by the Queen and no expense was spared, all the block paving paths were renewed, gardens replanted and everything in sight painted. (The Queen must think the whole world smells of fresh paint :wink: ).
I accepted the job knowing it was in full view of some 20 clerks of works, building inspectors and planning officers and on the condition that everything was on site including specially made bricks from Birmingham, engraved stone plaque, coloured ready mixed mortar, concrete etc as there was no electricity or water available.
The wall was maybe 2 mts long and 1.2 high but they made me dig the founds 600 wide and 750mm deep into very hard stoney ground and fully fill with concrete. All the detail shaped top bricks were missing and they sent someone by car to Birmingham to collect. :roll: No mortar had been ordered and they had forgotten to paind the incised lettering on the nameplate so it was impossible to read from further than 10 yards. Numpties, couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery :lol: I had to lay a hosepipe and extension cable across the road to a fire station to get the job moving.

I was still working 12 hours before the queens arrival but at least they kept their promise and paid me within 2 weeks. I turned down later requests for obvious reasons.
Maybe I should have asked for a "by royal appointment" seal as I heard the Queen was suitably impressed :wink: 

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2013)

:lol: I thought for one awful moment that you were going to say that it was knocked down after the visit!


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## adzeman (2 Sep 2013)

> This was in preparation for a visit by the Queen



Similar instance, The Queen traveled regularly on a certain Main Road to Dover and had commented on the tatty state of windows on a block of flats so I had to replace all the windows that faced that road!. What annoyed me it was in the Thatcher years when we were being starved of funds. I dont know if they ever did the other elevations not in my time though.


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## Lons (2 Sep 2013)

phil.p":3gqz0tg6 said:


> :lol: I thought for one awful moment that you were going to say that it was knocked down after the visit!



:lol: :lol: Yeah, post turned into a bit of an essay - sorry about that  
It will be standing long after I'm gone - could have built a 20 mtr high statue on that foundation...now there's a thought!



> Similar instance, The Queen traveled regularly on a certain Main Road to Dover and had commented on the tatty state of windows on a block of flats so I had to replace all the windows that faced that road!. What annoyed me it was in the Thatcher years when we were being starved of funds. I dont know if they ever did the other elevations not in my time though.



It's a different world to the one we live in Mike!


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## graduate_owner (9 Sep 2013)

Just a point about cancelling orders etc. My daughter was charged an interest fee which should not have been applied because she had cleared her no interest HP payments on time. The company was not being helpful when she queried it, so she made a facebook posting telling all her friends (and anyone else in the country who cared to read it) about what the firm did. It didn't take the firm long to contact her with a 'How can we help you?' message. Bad publicity is not good business.

K


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## graduate_owner (14 Oct 2013)

Same daughter, 2 quotes for uPVC windows and doors. One at £1900, the other at over £7000, different manufacturers but both well known. 

K


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## Mark A (15 Oct 2013)

We were quoted £17,500 by Everest for 8 pvc windows and three doors (one composite, two glass) That was WITH a 60% discount, plus a further 10% if we signed up there and then. In the end we had them supplied and fitted for £2800 by another company.


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Oct 2013)

Nearly 30yrs ago Everest quoted £3500 for 4 windows and a door - on a £15,000 house. I had asked for a "back of a fag packet" guess, and the salesman wasted two hours of my time and his and then walked off in a huff when I wouldn't sign up.


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## Graham Orm (15 Oct 2013)

phil.p":a28lmtjg said:


> Nearly 30yrs ago Everest quoted £3500 for 4 windows and a door - on a £15,000 house. I had asked for a "back of a fag packet" guess, and the salesman wasted two hours of my time and his and then walked off in a huff when I wouldn't sign up.



In the early days of double glazing salesmen drove Mercs and had lavish lifestyles.


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## Dangermouse (15 Oct 2013)

My father got a quote from them, he's 83. They sent around a very nice lady and after 3 hours of chit chat and measuring up for two doors and 6 windows she hit me and dad with the figure of £22,000. But if we signed up and paid there and then we would get it discounted down to £18,000. Dad was on the point of saying yes and if I wasn't there would have. I showed her the door in quick time. She turned from this lovely sweet lady to snarling demon, saying how she really didn't want to waste her time and we should have said we weren't serious about placing an order. I then went round to a small local firm and asked if they could supply the same spec items and I and my sons and partner would fit them. For exactly the same doors and windows we were quoted ..................wait for it..................£1800 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh yes and a few days later this guy rang up sounding like Del Boy saying they might have made a mistake on their quote and maybe they could bring it down to £15000 if we paid there and then. I politely told him and his company to F**K OFF !


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## Hivenhoe (20 Oct 2013)

Grayorm":3mmaf865 said:


> phil.p":3mmaf865 said:
> 
> 
> > Nearly 30yrs ago Everest quoted £3500 for 4 windows and a door - on a £15,000 house. I had asked for a "back of a fag packet" guess, and the salesman wasted two hours of my time and his and then walked off in a huff when I wouldn't sign up.
> ...




A lot still do!


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## MMUK (20 Oct 2013)

Sorry but that is just extortion!

As one time owner of the largest double glazing company in the Southampton area, we never charged more than £1200 for a composite door with all the options.

And I still drove around in a brand new Merc :mrgreen:


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## alano79 (10 Dec 2013)

yesterday one of the reps came to my house.....
As by protocol, he stayed for 3 HOURS! and he started the typical show.....
we are amazing, we do this, we provide only the best....£6000 for a front door!!!!
After being told that there were no chances, he came out with an additional discount, 10% here, 10% there (by the way, they are not saying the full truth about the 10% discount they are offering.........one could expect the discount to be applied to the full quotation, instead nop, it is applied to the quote after other discounts (in my case it would have been for only £430 rather than £600).....I told him that this, for me, was cheating and misleading people....
After 3hours, after repeating several times that I would have not bought the door the same day, he used the pathetic excuse of --I need to call my boss to check-out- in front of us (and not when OUT of the house as every single person in this world that does a similar jobs does)....and they offered another discount -if I had taken up their offer at that time....

unbelievable, fortunately I had read a lot of reviews in different forums.....so I already knew about the show that he would have put up!!!
Botton line.....guys...avoid Everest!!! it is true that their products are of very good quality....but their selling techniques..... awful!! I am also wondering if it is legal to blow the price so much for then offering fake discounts and bring the price down to normal-ISH prices.......


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## Max Power (10 Dec 2013)

Much of this thread is centred around the fact that Everest are not the cheapest home improvement company. :shock: and how windows can be had from Bodgit and Leggit for 1/4 the price
Wow, tell me something I didn't already know :roll: 
And in case you didn't realise, stay away from Bentley showrooms, theyre more expensive than most cars and you might be wasting your time looking at Patek Philippe watches, they're more expensive than Sekonda
I wouldn't have Everest around for the same reasons I wouldn't test drive a Rolls Royce ie I would be wasting the salesmans time and they have the same need to earn as everyone else


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## mind_the_goat (10 Dec 2013)

It's not about being a bit more expensive, it's about extortion and hard pressure selling. Even now after the banks have been pulled up for it, and energy companies ticked off, this still seems to be a 'legitimate' method. Works even better if the prospective client is on their own and/or getting on a bit. I'd like to see companies like this forced to repay any monies extracted in this way. 
This might make a good campaign for 38 degrees.


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## Eric The Viking (10 Dec 2013)

If you buy Bentley or Mercedes, etc., there are added-value things that explain the higher price of the product: better/more complex engineering, better after-sales service, higher performance, etc. 

The original price quoted in this thread was so extreme, compared to the average price for such things, that you can't possibly make a valid comparison with luxury cars. 

It may not have been Everest policy (I have my views on that), it may have been one 'rogue' salesperson, but the fact remains it was an attempt to take full advantage of a customer who didn't know the common price of what they were being sold. 

Irrespective of who instigated it, it was certainly highly immoral and I regard it as a useful warning.

E.


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## Graham Orm (10 Dec 2013)

A very important factor is the cancellation period. If you invited them in, there isn't one. If they canvassed you it's 7 days and you have 14 days on any finance irrespective of whether you contacted them or not.


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## Max Power (10 Dec 2013)

Eric The Viking":wzffa699 said:


> If you buy Bentley or Mercedes, etc., there are added-value things that explain the higher price of the product: better/more complex engineering, better after-sales service, higher performance, etc.


All of which could be said to apply to *any* premium product, whether its a Rolls Royce, Saville Row suit or a Holtey Plane, none of these do what a lower priced alternative wouldn't .
Unless youve lived most of your life on Mars you're going to realise that Everest fit into this category, so to get them out and be astonished at the prices is the equivalent of suddenly realising the nice Mercedes salesman is not going to let you have that shiny new S class for your 10k budget.


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## Max Power (10 Dec 2013)

Just to qualify my response, I design expensive German kitchens and you wouldn't believe the number of idiots that think they're going to get something they cant afford for the same price as B+Poo rubbish.


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## Lee J (10 Dec 2013)

Last May we had Everest in for a quote for a conservatory, 4m x 3.5m... £46,000
Told them no way and he then suddenly realised he'd made a boo boo, tapped his calculator for a minute or two and said... £21,000
He'd forgot to take off the May special offer discount. 
Then he had the cheek to ring back a few days later asking if we could sign on that day because the fitters etc had a slot available to start the following week. 
We told him to sod off and we got a local builder to do the base/dwarf walls, a local upvc company made and fitted it, all in... £8,500

happy days

My mum has just paid everest £19,000 for 6 windows and a door. This was only early this year.


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## Eric The Viking (10 Dec 2013)

It rather sounds like Everest's "value-add" is its salesforce!

And the difference with Mercedes is that they put huge effort into maintaining their brand as a premium product. It's obvious in the vehicles and all the sales and marketing activity, for example including F1 sponsorship.

In contrast, most people would have no idea at all that window frames and conservatories could have such an enormous price range. It's also very hard to see what justifies Everest's premium pricing (apart from the salesforce!). 

The analogy with premium kitchens doesn't hold true, either. You can easily justify the cost of a premium kitchen on the basis of workmanship and materials and bespoke design input.


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## mind_the_goat (10 Dec 2013)

Max Power":l8nf5lnp said:


> Just to qualify my response, I design expensive German kitchens and you wouldn't believe the number of idiots that think they're going to get something they cant afford for the same price as B+Poo rubbish.



But when the 'idiots' reel at the quote you give them, do you then phone your boss and suddenly knock 75% off the price ?


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## John15 (10 Dec 2013)

On a lighter side, I have no experience of their double glazing, but my memories of Everest were when flying at 28,000ft from Kathmandu along the Kathmandu Valley to Eastern Nepal - the mighty mountain close to the China border was clear to see at eye level from the left hand side of our small plane. An unforgettable sight.
Cheers,
John


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## mind_the_goat (10 Dec 2013)

John15":15k6xrjc said:


> On a lighter side, I have no experience of their double glazing, but my memories of Everest were when flying at 28,000ft from Kathmandu along the Kathmandu Valley to Eastern Nepal - the mighty mountain close to the China border was clear to see at eye level from the left hand side of our small plane. An unforgettable sight.
> Cheers,
> John




28000ft, hang on, I'll call my boss........We have a special promotional discount today and we can do you a special Everest flyby at 7000ft if you sign now.


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## Eric The Viking (10 Dec 2013)

John15":2wcmq9m8 said:


> On a lighter side, I have no experience of their double glazing, but my memories of Everest were when flying at 28,000ft from Kathmandu along the Kathmandu Valley to Eastern Nepal - the mighty mountain close to the China border was clear to see at eye level from the left hand side of our small plane. An unforgettable sight.
> Cheers,
> John



Likewise.  

I once flew down from Kathmandu to Dhaka in a Boeing 707 half seats and half full of carpets for export. IIRC we were noticeably below the mountain top. I was also in Kathmandu when Concorde visited on a PR trip. She did several loops round the city before coming in to land (not an easy landing, either, as the runway was quite short and there's a range of hills at the near end). We went up in the roof of the office to watch her.


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## Max Power (10 Dec 2013)

mind_the_goat":1codph0z said:


> Max Power":1codph0z said:
> 
> 
> > Just to qualify my response, I design expensive German kitchens and you wouldn't believe the number of idiots that think they're going to get something they cant afford for the same price as B+Poo rubbish.
> ...



Dont be silly, I wouldnt waste my time and theirs giving them a price if their budget didn't justify it


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## Setch (10 Dec 2013)

I have also seen some pretty shoddy customer service from Everest, towards customers who really don't need it
I'm a locksmith, and more than once I've had customers tell me Everest have told them that they have to have them back to change their locks after a burglary. Reasons given are transparently untrue - ie: locksmiths won't know how to do it, or your warranty will be voided if you get a third party to change your lock. This is horrible behaviour towards customers who have already suffered the trauma of a burglary, and who can't be expected to wait until Everest can provide an engineer at a grisly inflatedprice. Everest also appear to take pride in not keeping *any* records or stock to assist customers who need technical support our parts on old installations.

A premium price can sometimes be justified in light of good after sakes care, but Everests is shockingly bad.


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## Max Power (10 Dec 2013)

Do you provide a guarantee on your locks? Does that guarantee cover third parties undertaking work on them and replacing parts :? Why do you you say Everest are being untruthful to say that the warranty will be void in such a situation, I think you will find that that is exactly the case and you would be wrong to advise a customer otherwise


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## Hivenhoe (11 Dec 2013)

Max Power":3bipoggq said:


> Much of this thread is centred around the fact that Everest are not the cheapest home improvement company. :shock: and how windows can be had from Bodgit and Leggit for 1/4 the price
> Wow, tell me something I didn't already know :roll:
> And in case you didn't realise, stay away from Bentley showrooms, theyre more expensive than most cars and you might be wasting your time looking at Patek Philippe watches, they're more expensive than Sekonda
> I wouldn't have Everest around for the same reasons I wouldn't test drive a Rolls Royce ie I would be wasting the salesmans time and they have the same need to earn as everyone else



Everest are not the Rolls Royce/ Benley's of the replacement window world, yes they have a nice product which is comparable on quality with many others in the industry. 
They are not alone in their start high, show home, check in with my manager discount methods to sweeten the deal, many of the national sales outfits use it. But the price, high or low, does not always reflect the quality and service you get.


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## Eric The Viking (11 Dec 2013)

Max Power":1cp1ivmg said:


> Do you provide a guarantee on your locks? Does that guarantee cover third parties undertaking work on them and replacing parts? Why do you you say Everest are being untruthful to say that the warranty will be void in such a situation, I think you will find that that is exactly the case and you would be wrong to advise a customer otherwise


I'd hope, in this context, a double glazing company's argument wouldn't stand up in court. 

Warranty disputes rarely get that far, because they usually have so many escape clauses they're legally not worth the paper they are written on, but this sort of thing just might, because of the money involved... 

... say a double-glazing company are warranting some aspect(s) of their product to last for a specific time. If that includes the lock and it's broken by a criminal, it's the action of the Reasonable Man in such circumstances (a break-in) to get the lock repaired quickly by someone competent to do it. It might be a requirement of their household insurance, in any case. 

Whilst it's also obviously reasonable that a double glazing firm can't warrant a lock they didn't fit, that has no bearing on the durability of their double-glazing panels (or it shouldn't). A court might consider the warranty to be subsequently limited to the materials and work the original company provided, but not wholly overturned by one small component being changed on a like-for-like basis by a competent person, because... 

... if any double glazing firm charged a hefty premium price, with an awe-inspiring warranty included, the hefty premium would have been in part the cost of the warranty ("... surely that wasn't _all_ profit, sir?"). The householder wasn't just buying the double glazing and its installation, but also implicitly that the installation would remain fully functional for at least the warranty period, any faults being remedied by the installer (obligations such as cleaning and oiling, etc. being symmetrically imposed on the householder). 

The purchase was for double glazing, installation, _and longevity_, hence the high price. If that somehow _wasn't_ the case, the court might be expected to have little sympathy with any company that was price gouging and trying to avoid any warranty obligations.

Consumer law doesn't equate only to contract law as it once did: consumers, in this case purchasers of double glazing products, have the law weighted in their favour, the assumption being that they have fewer resources than the firms they buy from so it would otherwise be unfair. Courts expect firms to behave fairly and for contract terms to be reasonable. Voiding an entire warranty, _under these circumstances_, isn't fair. 

A simple question would probably be asked in court, such as, "What effect did changing the lock have on your double glazing panel seals?"

If the lock replacement wasn't like-for-like, or the locksmith wasn't properly competent, or the replacement involved a lot of components, then that's an entirely different matter.

E.

PS: It's a couple of decades since I did a law course! I can't find you case law, but there are lawyers on here who (a) probably could, and (b) will, I hope, correct me if I've misunderstood the current state of play. EU law is developing in favour of the consumer too, quite dramatically, e.g. the recent six-year obligation placed on manufacturers to rectify defects.


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## Lee J (11 Dec 2013)

a friend of mine makes glass for glazing, he works at Saint Gobain in Yorkshire, he told me not to believe the bull they'll give me about specialist glass only available from Everest. Apparently Saint Gobain and Pilkington make this type of glass all the time for anyone who requires it, it's not exclusive to Everest.


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## Max Power (11 Dec 2013)

Where would you say Everest were in terms of brand placement ?

Ask 100 members of the general public the following 3 questions

Name a luxury car brand .......
Name a luxury watch brand .......
Name a luxury double glazing brand ...

I would have thought the top answers would be as follows
1 Rolls Royce
2 Rolex
3 Everest

Which Double glazing company would remove them from anwer three :?


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## nanscombe (11 Dec 2013)

Max Power":duo40vv5 said:


> Eric The Viking":duo40vv5 said:
> 
> 
> > If you buy Bentley or Mercedes, etc., there are added-value things that explain the higher price of the product: better/more complex engineering, better after-sales service, higher performance, etc.
> ...



"Name a luxury double glazing brand…" or "Name an expensive double glazing brand.."?

Are Everest products really comparable to "premium" products, like Festool, or are they just simply B&Q products at Festool prices?


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## Lons (11 Dec 2013)

Max Power":1tns57ff said:


> Where would you say Everest were in terms of brand placement ?
> 
> Ask 100 members of the general public the following 3 questions
> 
> ...


 If that were true (and it's not proven) then it would not necessarily be that they thought Everest were top luxury brand, just that it's the only one they could think of. Just because you're well known doesn't mean you're the best!
The double glazing market is very different to that of cars and watches being largely made up of smaller more local businesses who don't have the money to launch national TV campaigns. (That money comes from overcharging its customers).

I'll give you another example: Everyone knows "Perspex". The name became synonymous with acrylic sheet. My experience in the plastics industry shows that it is absolutely no better quality than Plexi or many of the others available but it's the name most would come up with even though that's changing due to the number of times Plexiglass is mentioned on tv and films from the US. The same applies to many others such as "Hoover" for vacuums (at least before Dyson) - Public perception is often about the amount of exposure they receive to the product i.e. advertising , not always quality

Bob


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## MMUK (11 Dec 2013)

OK, having been in the trade for more years than I care to remember, and having once owned my own fabrication & installation company, I think I can clarify the warranty situation here.

1. Warranties only cover defective materials and workmanship. In the case of a break in, the warranty will not cover repairs or replacement of hardware as this is not a mechanical failure during normal use and not classed as wear and tear.

2. A warranty or guarantee will be voided should any company other than the original installer make repairs or alterations to the existing installation during the guarantee period. Once exception however is an insurance backed guarantee. In this case, you contact the backer and they arrange for one of their approved installers to carry out the work. This may be the original company or it may not.

3. A lot of companies offer a 10 or 15 year guarantee but read the small print! In 99% of cases, it is only the uPVC that is guaranteed for this period against mechanical failure and discolouration. Generally speaking, double glazed units are guaranteed for five years and hardware either one or two years depending on the manufacturer. Large companies tend to stick to this rule hard and fast and often use it as a get out clause. In other cases, Anglian for example (I've worked for them), the company extends these guarantees for the full period of 10/15 years but recoup costs with call out fees.

4. Replacement sealed units and hardware in existing frames only tend to carry a 12 month guarantee against failure.

5. A lot of "national" companies will also use "routine maintenance" as another get out clause. Even something as silly as not washing down your uPVC every six months with soapy water can void your guarantee in some cases. These companies can be slotted in next to insurance companies in terms of customer service!


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## Max Power (11 Dec 2013)

nanscombe":jf9xn4gb said:


> "Name a luxury double glazing brand…" or "Name an expensive double glazing brand.."?
> 
> Are Everest products really comparable to "premium" products, like Festool, or are they just simply B&Q products at Festool prices?



Are you seriously suggesting that a company with Everests prices would have lasted as long in the market place if they sold rubbish :roll:


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## nanscombe (11 Dec 2013)

I was wondering if they actually "premium" products or simply run of the mill products sold at "premium" prices, paying for the name of Everest as it were?

Not being a double glazing installer, when I look at a double glazed window, all I see is a (uPVC) surround with a sealed glazing unit inside.



I was going to use "Rolls Royce" and "Ford Fiesta" but I thought I'd give it a wood working theme. :wink: 

Oh look, I can roll my eyes too. :roll: :lol:


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## Max Power (11 Dec 2013)

So you can Nanscombe :lol: :lol: :ho2


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## nanscombe (11 Dec 2013)

:deer Ho, ho, ho :ho2

They've got a nice crop of smilies. Soon be time for ccasion5: this year.

I never realised I looked so like Norm :norm: :lol:


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## MMUK (11 Dec 2013)

nanscombe":2g0e51id said:


> I never realised I looked so like Norm :norm: :lol:




I'd have said that was more like Gerry Adams :wink:


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