# traditional carpenters toolbox



## Yorkshire Sam (11 Dec 2014)

A traditional carpenters or joiners tool box. Is there such a thing? Been wanting to make one for a while and researching on the net for plans for one. Discovered that there are as so many variations and types and while the majority tend to consist of a 'box' with a number of tills, some with cut box lids, others with panel types and even the sizes seem to vary as much and as widely as the types! Then there is the tool chest! Even with all this and considering that most of the craftsmen in the trade has at least one I am perplexed as to the scarcity of drafted plans. Compare this to the similar problem of benches where there is no scarcity of plans and a plethora of books on the subject. Was it always left to the apprentice to design and draft his own or was there 'typical' sort to copy?

Can anyone recommend a good book or drawn plan on making one ... (rather than the history of them). I know there is the anarchist tool chest but I am after a box rather than a chest if that makes sense.


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## RogerP (11 Dec 2014)

Not too sure what you may have found on the web. 

There's this ... http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2008/08/15-free-toolbox-plans-for-woodworkers ... may or may not be the sort of thing you're looking for.

I checked out one of the SketchUp plans and worked okay.


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## Andy Kev. (11 Dec 2014)

It might be worth your while having a look at The Anarchist's Toolchest by Christopher Schwarz in which he goes into the building of a toolchest in great Detail.


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## RogerP (11 Dec 2014)

Andy Kev.":2jo074kq said:


> It might be worth your while having a look at The Anarchist's Toolchest by Christopher Schwarz in which he goes into the building of a toolchest in great Detail.


 He says he in his post he doesn't want that design .......


> I know there is the anarchist tool chest but I am after a box rather than a chest if that makes sense.


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## Andy Kev. (11 Dec 2014)

RogerP":ha1p3bhz said:


> Andy Kev.":ha1p3bhz said:
> 
> 
> > It might be worth your while having a look at The Anarchist's Toolchest by Christopher Schwarz in which he goes into the building of a toolchest in great Detail.
> ...


Ooops! Missed that bit altogether.


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## Billy Flitch (11 Dec 2014)

A traditional Carpenters box for carrying tools around was usually known as a Piano box, nothing really to do with Piano`s just it used a piano hinge to keep the lid on. As to size that's up to you but this is how it usually went.
Get your longest tool, this would normally be you rip saw and make the box long enough for the saw to fit in.
I`ve seen box`s with the end of the saw sticking out but could never see the sense in that.The width of the box should be about 7" the width of the lid about 2", the lid acts as the saw till. As to the height, things to take into consideration you store the planes at the bottom of the box and will have at least one till in the top of the box in between this you have to have enough space to fit a hand brace and any tool rolls you carry.

As you can see the box is made to fit around the tools and not the other way round. The last instruction you received was Don't forget you and nobody else will be carrying this so don't make it to heavy.
Enjoy the project.


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## DuncanA (11 Dec 2014)

I've seen quite a few toolboxes of this sort of design, which I'd consider a fairly traditional toolbox option, I remember a retired local carpenter describing something similar once when I explained I was building a tool chest:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REDUCED-PRICE ... 33998720d0 put 'vintage wooden tool box' into ebay and there are several similar ones. 

In fact, this might be what Billy is referring to as a 'Piano box'?


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## Billy Flitch (11 Dec 2014)

Duncan that is exactly the sort of box I was talking about and as you can see in the link it does use a piano hinge.


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## Jacob (11 Dec 2014)

Mine's the same. Was bog standard C&G pattern which you made at some point during the course. First dovetails.
Very practical box made to measure so that a hand saw and a panel saw would fit into the lid, and a plane and oilstone would sit side by side in the box.


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## Berncarpenter (11 Dec 2014)

Hi Sam
The Toolbox Book by Jim Tolpin is a good source for ideas and inspiration, there are some plans to work off too.
Taunton Press ISBN 1-56158-272-7 

Hope this helps 

Cheers Bern


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## niagra (11 Dec 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKA_Ff0bn9D2yixu-VaFo_iB4zpdKMEBo

Not sure if this is the kind of thing you're after but this guy's work is amazing.


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## bugbear (11 Dec 2014)

DuncanA":i6jnbpu1 said:


> I've seen quite a few toolboxes of this sort of design, which I'd consider a fairly traditional toolbox option, I remember a retired local carpenter describing something similar once when I explained I was building a tool chest:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REDUCED-PRICE ... 33998720d0 put 'vintage wooden tool box' into ebay and there are several similar ones.
> 
> In fact, this might be what Billy is referring to as a 'Piano box'?



These come through my local auction sale in amazing quantities - prbbaly 1 or 2 each week

Planes and other big tools (mallets, spirit levels) go in the bottom, saws on toggles on the surface of the drop down flap, and small tools in the drawers. I'd have said two
drawers is common than the single drawer of the eBay example, but 1, 2, and 3 drawer examples are all frequent.

I would regard something like this as fairly typical:







BugBear


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## t8hants (11 Dec 2014)

I am quite like the 'Dutch' tool chest design that has been appearing lately on the web, as I have found the type pictured above a bit small for static storage, and I don't like the hulking great chest types. What I would like to know is the term Dutch used because it is a traditional Netherlands style or is the Americanism of calling things that are German in origin 'Dutch' being applied here - anyone know?

Gareth


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## bugbear (11 Dec 2014)

t8hants":18kkf61e said:


> as I have found the type pictured above a bit small for static storage



It's for taking tools to site (in fact I've seen it called a "site case"). so not intended for storage, but transport.

BugBear


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## JohnPW (11 Dec 2014)

I've been wanting to make this type of tool box for a long time, started one at college but ran out of time, my tools are now kept all over the place, in cardboard boxes and basically anywhere where's a flat surface.






This one I saw on Ebay seems to have "Stanley" and "Jobmaster" stickers, I don't know if It's a Stanley toolbox or the owner stuck them on.





I don't think I've seen this type in many books, one book had a drawing I think, another had this photo:





I think this type is good if you don't have a permanent workshop, obviously you'd need more than one! They would be small and light enough, even when all the space inside is all used, so that you can actually pick them up and move them around. 

I've never understood the appeal of tool chests; too big, too heavy, lots of unusable empty space inside, uses up valuable floor space. If I had a permanent workshop, I would put tool cabinets on the wall. Actually, the type of toolbox in this thread could be mounted or hanged on a wall as well.


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## JohnPW (11 Dec 2014)

As mentioned, you would make this to fit your own choice of tools, god knows why anyone would need a book or even a course to make a tool box.


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## Jacob (11 Dec 2014)

JohnPW":2qpeb1gi said:


> As mentioned, you would make this to fit your own choice of tools, god knows why anyone would need a book or even a course to make a tool box.


Well yes. There are a lot of them around because they were made as part of a beginner's course in Carpentry & Joinery etc. not a course in tool bpx making. Week 5 in my case.
The box is made as a closed unit with 4 sides of 1/2" solid wood, a single hinge bar and two panels of ply. Then the top is cut out - down the hinge line and top and then the two sides. Th DTs are arranged to leave a fat one where the hinge hits the sides as it will be split in two.


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## JohnPW (11 Dec 2014)

Jacob":39natyny said:


> JohnPW":39natyny said:
> 
> 
> > As mentioned, you would make this to fit your own choice of tools, god knows why anyone would need a book or even a course to make a tool box.
> ...



Perhaps I should have said that you would do a woodwork course (or read a book) to learn how to cut and plane wood, cut joints, fit hinges etc. That would be sufficient for anyone to make a tool box of this type. Therefore there are no plans, books or courses on how to make one.


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## bugbear (11 Dec 2014)

JohnPW":1cs47yeo said:


> I've never understood the appeal of tool chests; too big, too heavy, lots of unusable empty space inside, uses up valuable floor space.



Toolchests were used in the days when induividual craftsman working for a maker each had their own tools. Each chest would
have a good lock. The craftsman would only have to lift the heavy the chest when he changed job.

Sort of analogous to your locker when you were at school.

Quiet different to the site cases earlier in the thread, or indeed the kind of racks or cupboards a modern craftsman with his own permanent workshop would create.

BugBear


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## G S Haydon (11 Dec 2014)

Craftspeople still like a good tool chest http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/102022/tool-chest


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## Tony Zaffuto (11 Dec 2014)

There is a style here in the states, that is more of an upright design, made popular after WWII, that finish carpenters would carry their in, to job sites. I believe Roy Underhill featured this design in one of his videos, as well as in one of his books. Looks similar to what was called the "piano hinge" box, except it sits upright, with a portion folding down. Plenty long for handsaws ans well as tall enough for a framing square.

I have one my now deceased father built in the early 50's when he was a home builder. it's packed away but I supposed I could dig it out and email photos to someone here, if they would be so kind to post the photos (I'm challenged when it comes to attaching photos to messages!).


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## Jacob (12 Dec 2014)

Tony Zaffuto":3na701a8 said:


> ...... Looks similar to what was called the "piano hinge" box, except it sits upright, with a portion folding down. .....


The "piano hinge" box sits upright if you stand it on it's bottom edge! It usually has a handle on the top edge like a suitcase.


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## Tony Zaffuto (12 Dec 2014)

Jacob":g3tiejfq said:


> Tony Zaffuto":g3tiejfq said:
> 
> 
> > ...... Looks similar to what was called the "piano hinge" box, except it sits upright, with a portion folding down. .....
> ...



That's spot on Jacob. I'm going to try to get a photo or two snapped and off to one of the other guys here to put up.

What I remember of my dad when he used this box, he never laid it down and always kept it upright, though I can't remember any reason why it couldn't be laid down.


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## novocaine (12 Dec 2014)

I have a 2 draw similar to those shown previously with the drop front, it was left in the workshop when the previous owners moved out (along with a mountain of detritus/fag ends and oil stains). it's in a right old state having not been cared for by the muppets who obviously didn't have any love for what was most likely a grandfathers tool box, made by him during his apprenticeship. it has all the hall marks of a 1940's box, with the correct handles, clasps and locks on it, but the lid has been ripped off, the draws have been broken and the sides have started to split. 

I fully intend to repair and restore it to how it once was and will be using it for the old planes (stanley, record and a mix of the two), saws, brace and chisels, owned by my father and grandfather, handed to me and still used. 

It is a real shame when someone doesn't show respect to something made by an ancestor, I am only gutted that my fathers tool chest (made in his C&G) was disposed off when he was off work sick and they decided to clear his workshop (along with a number of very expensive bits of kit including a mobile forge).


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## bugbear (12 Dec 2014)

Was googling for images, and found this great old thread on lumberjocks

http://lumberjocks.com/harshest/blog/31569

The thread-starting box is a classic.

Scott Wynn's version looks a little heavy to me.

Edit; more image surfing revealed a few boxes with a design idea. The drop down lid has "stops"
that press and hold the drawers shut when the lid is shut. Neat!

BugBear


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Dec 2014)

So the chest was sort of analogous to your locker when you were at school, BB? You mean it got broken into every second week? :lol:


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## bugbear (12 Dec 2014)

phil.p":w8jwu2xq said:


> So the chest was sort of analogous to your locker when you were at school, BB? You mean it got broken into every second week? :lol:



My school wasn't in a rough area.  







(disclaimer - I didn''t go to either of THOSE schools!)

BugBear


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## JohnPW (12 Dec 2014)

bugbear":34926tnp said:


> JohnPW":34926tnp said:
> 
> 
> > I've never understood the appeal of tool chests; too big, too heavy, lots of unusable empty space inside, uses up valuable floor space.
> ...



But the people now advocating and using the tool chest are not in that situation, so my points still apply to the tool chest as it's currently used.


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## bugbear (12 Dec 2014)

JohnPW":3mtiaybi said:


> bugbear":3mtiaybi said:
> 
> 
> > JohnPW":3mtiaybi said:
> ...



I did _try_ to be clear about the 3 types of tool storage I was describing, and the context in which each type is used.

To repeat/summarise: "portable", "not fixed", and "fixed".

BugBear


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## JohnPW (12 Dec 2014)

> I did _try_ to be clear about the 3 types of tool storage I was describing, and the context in which each type is used.
> 
> To repeat/summarise: "portable", "not fixed", and "fixed".
> 
> BugBear



Thanks for explaining.

All I'm just trying to say is IMO the tool chest, as it is used now, ie not by workers to store tools at an employer's premises, is not a good way to keep tools.

I would think self-contained, ie free standing, tool cabinets that you can mount on a wall would be in the "not fixed" category and would use up less space and be more convenient to use than a tool chest. Even a chest of drawers would be better.


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## bugbear (12 Dec 2014)

JohnPW":1t7eg553 said:


> > I did _try_ to be clear about the 3 types of tool storage I was describing, and the context in which each type is used.
> >
> > To repeat/summarise: "portable", "not fixed", and "fixed".
> >
> ...



I think people just enjoy creating toolchests - they not only used to be storage, they (or some of them) were fine demonstrations of the owner's skill;
simple black paint on the outside, and (sometimes) veneer, marquetry and the finest French fitting on the inside.

For a permanent workshop shelves, cupboards and drawers make far more practical sense.

BugBear


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## G S Haydon (12 Dec 2014)

You have a good point John but they do have a use in some cases. Where I do my hobby stuff I have no wall free to fix to, I need to move around now and again and with it being on castors it's easy to move. It keeps just the right amount of stuff I need and on a pointless issue I like the look of them. Clearly though, not ideal in all cases.


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## Corneel (12 Dec 2014)

t8hants":e0kecd9r said:


> I am quite like the 'Dutch' tool chest design that has been appearing lately on the web, as I have found the type pictured above a bit small for static storage, and I don't like the hulking great chest types. What I would like to know is the term Dutch used because it is a traditional Netherlands style or is the Americanism of calling things that are German in origin 'Dutch' being applied here - anyone know?
> 
> Gareth



YES! that is a wellknown design overhere in The Netherlands. Here is an example found on a shipwreck from the 16th century.


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## t8hants (12 Dec 2014)

Corneel":1xebd8ow said:


> t8hants":1xebd8ow said:
> 
> 
> > I am quite like the 'Dutch' tool chest design that has been appearing lately on the web, as I have found the type pictured above a bit small for static storage, and I don't like the hulking great chest types. What I would like to know is the term Dutch used because it is a traditional Netherlands style or is the Americanism of calling things that are German in origin 'Dutch' being applied here - anyone know?
> ...



Thank you for that Corneel! When I build my version in the Spring of next year, I shall take great care that mine will hopefully be worthy to stand alongside such a fine traditional example.

Gareth


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## Corneel (13 Dec 2014)

I hope you take more care of your tools though! This is how it was found at the bottom of the sea.


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## t8hants (13 Dec 2014)

I will try avoid being shipwrecked whilst traveling with my tools, - so that's the cross Solent ferries out :lol: 

G


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## mseries (13 Dec 2014)

DuncanA":1bvgiv9n said:


> I've seen quite a few toolboxes of this sort of design, which I'd consider a fairly traditional toolbox option, I remember a retired local carpenter describing something similar once when I explained I was building a tool chest:
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REDUCED-PRICE ... 33998720d0 put 'vintage wooden tool box' into ebay and there are several similar ones.
> 
> In fact, this might be what Billy is referring to as a 'Piano box'?


I have one like that that my Dad gave me. Not sure if he made it, he was an electrician so doubtful. Whoever did make it made it over 50 years ago I'd say, it's not great, made from ply from an old tea chest, but it's old and is still doing it's job, which in my opinion makes it great !


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## nanscombe (13 Dec 2014)

t8hants":1sgf5nag said:


> I will try avoid being shipwrecked whilst traveling with my tools, - so that's the cross Solent ferries out :lol:
> 
> G




Aha, I watched Gunslingers on Quest last night. Now I recognise your avatar.


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## Bod (13 Dec 2014)

Having made several tool boxes, for the kids, when they got their own homes, saves the "Dad, can I borrow...."
My advice, gather all the tools expected to go in, together. Make the box big enough to hold the largest. Cutting as little as 3/4 of an inch off a panel saw makes it look and feel strange. (Yes I did it, only once.)
If you have more than 2 bench planes, consider, more than 1 box. Unless you wish to make it theft proof. (Too heavy to lift)
Sharp cutting edges need protection, or blood will be spilt.
Handles and locks need to be much stronger than thought. (It will be overloaded at some stage)

Enjoy making.
Bod


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## Billy Flitch (14 Dec 2014)

Nice to see that the carpenters box made it across the pond to our American cousins or is it the other way around ? It would be interesting if any of our Australian members have seen box down under. I can remember back in the early 90`s I was subing for one of the UK biggest shop fitters and there was about 30box`s all lined up waiting to go back to the shop, most of them painted black but also a few varnished. To the untrained eye they where all the same but you could have said to any of the craftsmen pick your box out and they would have gone straight to it, because they where all different in small ways and these men had had the box`s for a long time.
This fact alone tells me there was no drawn plane for the box, well I`ve never seen one, I was also told not to go aver board on the lock because it was only to stop people from being nosy because if they wanted to steal anything they could just pick the box up and walk away with it.

Making a new one I sort of keep it on the back burner and do a little bit on it every now and again, made two lids for it one front and one back.


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## Vann (15 Dec 2014)

Billy Flitch":24vvr0kh said:


> It would be interesting if any of our Australian members have seen box down under.


Okay, firstly I'm a Kiwi not an Aussie.

Tool boxes of the "piano" variety show up on the local internet auction site frequently - so they're known over here. 

I did my apprenticeship in a railway workshops (~850 men at the time - now closed :evil: ), so we didn't need that level of portability. We made larger "chest" toolboxes. Mine is 34" long, 16" wide and 17" deep, with the first 2 1/4" being the lid. Three saws are stored in the lid. There are 3 full width trays, two on one level and one above. To access the lower trays, the top tray slides end to end. To access below the two trays, one needs to be lifted out (not a great design feature). The lower half has not been divided for individual items, but is just a large single area (again, not a great design feature). We made wooden trolleys (with wooden wheels) to transport our tool boxes, as we would move shops every 3 months during the apprenticeship.

Mine now lives in my home workshop, but I use it to store seldom used tools (as it's always hard to get into 'cause I keep putting things on the lid, making it hard to access #-o) . The wooden trolley was abandoned long ago.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Vann (18 Dec 2014)

This one has just shown up on the local internet auction site. $29 (~£14.50). 850 x 460 x 220. Looks like it may need some TLC.









http://www.trademe.co.nz/antiques-colle ... 425931.htm

Cheers, Vann.


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## JimB (18 Dec 2014)

mseries":16t1cgfy said:


> I have one like that that my Dad gave me. Not sure if he made it, he was an electrician so doubtful. Whoever did make it made it over 50 years ago I'd say, it's not great, made from ply from an old tea chest, but it's old and is still doing it's job, which in my opinion makes it great !


Fifty years ago is not old. :evil:


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## mseries (18 Dec 2014)

JimB":2jwbk9u9 said:


> mseries":2jwbk9u9 said:
> 
> 
> > I have one like that that my Dad gave me. Not sure if he made it, he was an electrician so doubtful. Whoever did make it made it over 50 years ago I'd say, it's not great, made from ply from an old tea chest, but it's old and is still doing it's job, which in my opinion makes it great !
> ...



 older than I am. It was in my Dads garage for as long as I remember


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## JimB (18 Dec 2014)

mseries":12waydj8 said:


> older than I am. It was in my Dads garage for as long as I remember


There are some advantages though. I saw John Charles play at Elland Road long before you were born.


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