# Rust prevention and removal - any advice?



## TonyW (2 Mar 2007)

My limited supply of hand and power tools are stored in my garage which will also function as my future workshop. Rust has been a problem I have occasionally experienced and I am looking for ways to prevent (as much as possible) in the future. 

Having done some searching on rust prevention I have ordered Liberon lubricating wax and camelia oil and some Garryflex pads for light rust removal. 

Are there any other "magical" potions or cures for this problem or do I just have to expect the inevitable is likely to happen?

Thanks Tony


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## ByronBlack (2 Mar 2007)

If your garage isn't very well insulated and is going to get damp, then I think you'll always get some rust, all I can suggest, is to store your tools in a good toolbox and include a rust inhibitor - axminster sell them. Or try using some of the bags of silica you get in shoe's, this wicks away some of the moisture in the air, but a good storage box is definitly worth investing in.


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## j (2 Mar 2007)

You might also consider a heated tool cabinet. There have been a few threads on this subject. Usually just a low wattage bulb connected to a thermostat in the cupboard.

Maybe the heat from a few cordless tool chargers is enough to keep the condensation off your tools

HTH
J


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## Rob Lee (2 Mar 2007)

j":678i5woo said:


> You might also consider a heated tool cabinet. There have been a few threads on this subject. Usually just a low wattage bulb connected to a thermostat in the cupboard.
> 
> Maybe the heat from a few cordless tool chargers is enough to keep the condensation off your tools
> 
> ...



Hi Tony - 

I agree with the above... it's the temperature differentials that'll get you - not the humidity (as much)... a single 60-100 watt bulb gives enough heat to prevent condensation...

Look also at Boeshield for long term storage...or even poly tung oil....

One of my favorites for rust removal was OxiSolv....

http://www.oxisolv.com/html/rust_remover.html

Cheers -

Rob


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## Paul Kierstead (2 Mar 2007)

I find the little rust erasers fantastic for removing light rust. Available at Rob's place, plus lots of other places I am sure. Watch out for the grit afterwords, nasty stuff.

For preventing, I use paste wax, Waxlit, TopCote and Camilia oil, all depending on application and mood. For planes/chisels especially I use the latter because it smells almost nice and is pleasant to use. I use a little bottle applicator like this. It makes things very easy; a little wipe, I spread it around with my hands, all done. At the end of my shop-day during clean-up, I put a little on every plane I used, and also keep them very clean, which seems to help.

For larger surfaces on machines, that kind of thing, I tend to use the other solutions.


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## TonyW (2 Mar 2007)

*Byron*. Thanks for the comments - next on the agenda a decent toolbox and the rust inhibitor...its colder and wetter here "up North" than the sunny climes of Essex

*J* The heated tool cupboard is intriguing will do a search


*Paul* I am going to try the Camelia oil and paste wax

*Rob* Will keep my eye open for the products you mentioned
I guess living in Canada you guys no a thing or two about temperature differentials  

Thanks again for all the good advice

Tony


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## wdartsch (2 Mar 2007)

Hi all,me newbie  ,
I have been enjoying this forum for quite some time-thank You !
First time i feel like beeing able to contribute.
My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.


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## Sgian Dubh (3 Mar 2007)

TonyW":3df0iqy1 said:


> The heated tool cupboard is intriguing will do a search



I've been doing this for about twenty five years. Simply build a large tool cabinet with a pair of side hung doors and include shelving and drawers to suit. 

My tool cabinets are about 1200 mm wide X about 900 mm tall and 400 deep with a central vertical divider that's cut away towards the back bottom corner. A bit of careful planning and you can bang together a tough and durable plywood cabinet economically out of whole sheets of WBP birch ply. Mount the thing on large casters and you have portability too. Make the height the same as the height of your workbench and you have additional support available for large frames, etc., when required.

Where the central vertical divider has a cutout at the back bottom corner install a light bulb holder, wire and a plug. For long life fit one of the long life energy saving bulbs and leave it running permanently. I find a 7 watt bulb of this type works well and they do really last. Slainte.


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## woodbloke (3 Mar 2007)

wdartsch, welcome to the forum, wrote:


> My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.


sounds interesting.....but what about all tool collectors on the forum, some would need an old walk in deep freezer :wink: :lol: - Rob


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## Inspector (3 Mar 2007)

> My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.



Good idea, over here our refrigerators come with light bulbs :idea: in them that come on when the door opens.  
That makes it a bit easier to bypass the switch so that the light is on all the time. :lol: :lol:


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## TonyW (3 Mar 2007)

wdartsch":2zkfsxdd said:


> My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.


What an ingenious solution and very "Green" not needing to be recycled

*Sgian Dubh* Nice idea pointing me in the right direction

Thanks to all

Tony


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## Newbie_Neil (3 Mar 2007)

Hi wdartsch

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil


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## wdartsch (3 Mar 2007)

> sounds interesting.....but what about all tool collectors on the forum, some would need an old walk in deep freezer Wink Laughing - Rob
> 
> Try to get your hands on some Murrican ones  -good enough for a dozen of N8 jointers and a couple of Disstons.
> 
> ...


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## chunkolini (4 Mar 2007)

As a metal worker I know a bit on this one. Phosphoric acid is the perfect rust remover, kind to the steel and quite tasty to the juveniles.

WOT? I hear you say. To get rid of quite serious rust soak your tools overnight in Coca Cola, contains a high percentage of phosphoric acid. The rust will rub off easily.

Or if you prefer the branded route go to this site www.bilthamber.com and check out a product called deox-c . From what I can tell it is phosphoric acid based, a dry powder, dissolved in water it derusts steel and passivates the surface. I have used it, great stuff, and for a change it works as described.

regards, chunko'


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## TonyW (4 Mar 2007)

chunkolini":18wfa0f4 said:


> As a metal worker I know a bit on this one. Phosphoric acid is the perfect rust remover, kind to the steel and quite tasty to the juveniles.
> 
> WOT? I hear you say. To get rid of quite serious rust soak your tools overnight in Coca Cola, contains a high percentage of phosphoric acid. The rust will rub off easily.
> 
> ...


 
Coca Cola - never occurred to me (have tried the penny cleaning trick though). Thanks for that and also link to the branded product. Just a minute if you put steel in Coca Cola does it turn into Irn Bru?  

Have also found reference to using Citric Acid (one on Alfs site) 

Also been reading about electrolysis. Looks a little messy but seems to offer the benefit of replacing the rust with new metal - similar to electrolytic silver recovery in the photographic industry. Anyone had experience of this method? 

regards, Tony


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## Sgian Dubh (5 Mar 2007)

wdartsch":36qyv5ql said:


> Hi Sgian Dubh.why use energy saving lamp?
> In this case you WANT the heat,not the light,else you have a fridge with a glass door :wink: Wolfgang



I agree, the light is not important, it's the heat you're after. The reason I recommend the low energy bulbs is their longevity. Put one in and forget it for years. They burn and burn and burn. 

On the other hand an incandescent bulb, say 25 watts, might last only 24 hours, or even blow instantly. On average an incandescent bulb left running continuously will last between four and six weeks-- or at least that's my experience.

The low energy bulbs are comparatively expensive individually, but the cost of regularly replacing incandescent bulbs soon adds up and overtakes the initial cost of the low energy bulbs. Slainte.


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## AHoman (5 Mar 2007)

Sgian Dubh":1gu3f4mi said:


> I agree, the light is not important, it's the heat you're after. The reason I recommend the low energy bulbs is their longevity. Put one in and forget it for years. They burn and burn and burn.



Richard,
Are you talking about "compact fluorescent" bulbs? I've been using them here at home and noticed that some of them run quite hot, at very low wattage. They last about 6-7 years. I wonder whether they would be appropriate for the application you mentioned.
-Andy


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## promhandicam (5 Mar 2007)

Inspector":2nnlazga said:


> > My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



And how do you know that the light isn't on all the time :wink: unless you get inside to check :lol: 

Steve


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## Adam (5 Mar 2007)

Alternatively, why not add in a heater element

http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/endecaSearch/ ... KU=4408299

£7







15W in the example above.

Or a 10W one.

Adam


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## Jasper Homminga (5 Mar 2007)

Tony, 

My garage is badly insulated and (for that reason) unheated. I use a number of things against rust: wooden toolcabinet, camelia oil and a moisture eater (translated from the dutch "vochtvreter"). Extra bonus is that the cabinet smells of lavender. :lol: 
I don't need any of these measures in summer , but all of them in winter . 

Good luck, 
Jasper


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## Sgian Dubh (5 Mar 2007)

AHoman":q4jrgbi7 said:


> Richard,
> Are you talking about "compact fluorescent" bulbs? I've been using them here at home and noticed that some of them run quite hot, at very low wattage. They last about 6-7 years. I wonder whether they would be appropriate for the application you mentioned.
> -Andy



They might, but I use the type shown in the link below. They're sometimes double spiral shaped, but often globe shaped. You should be able to pick them out in the link provided.

I think Lowes or Home Depot in the US sell the equivalent bulb type. Slainte.

http://www.greenshop.co.uk/acatalog/ind ... atalogBody


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## TonyW (5 Mar 2007)

Adam":1yqr9rgh said:


> Alternatively, why not add in a heater element
> Adam


Adam thanks for the link - haven't come across these - may be better choice than lightbulb. Have you used them yourself?



Jasper Homminga":1yqr9rgh said:


> My garage is badly insulated and (for that reason) unheated. I use a number of things against rust: wooden toolcabinet, camelia oil and a moisture eater (translated from the dutch "vochtvreter"). Extra bonus is that the cabinet smells of lavender.
> I don't need any of these measures in summer , but all of them in winter .
> 
> Good luck,
> Jasper.


Jasper my garage sounds the same as yours and I am going to follow the advice including the camelia oil - not sure about the smell of lavender in a workshop though :lol: 

My parcel arrived from APTC today including the Camelia oil (or so I thought). Took the cap off to see what it smelled like - no smell - opened the bottle and found I have just purchased the applicator only no oil  Looks like another order for APTC (wonder what else I can buy to make up to £45)

Regards
Tony


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## whybob71 (6 Mar 2007)

Last night i tired the Coca-cola bath for one of my blade iron which had some rust (1/2 in the coca-cola). This morning I rinsed the iron and cleaned it with a clean towel ad some WD40. I have to admit that I didn't see big differences.....May be the caffein-free coca-cola that I used for :lol: .......


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## Chris Knight (6 Mar 2007)

Adam's heater looks very neat. I lived for many years in the tropics and heater elements (not as neat as Adam's picture) were common in wardrobes and the like, so I kept the few tools I had in those days in the wardrobe and they never got rusty.


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## Adam (6 Mar 2007)

TonyW":256gc6yr said:


> Adam thanks for the link - haven't come across these - may be better choice than lightbulb. Have you used them yourself?



Nope, but I see no reason not to. The Farnell sheet links to a datasheet.

Adam


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## sparky (9 Mar 2007)

im not sure if this is a good idea or a bad one but it works
when i get a bit of rust on some of my tools (right now i have a bit on my LA Jack) i take a paper towel or a piece of paper and when i am done sharpening my irons i will rub the paper on the 8000 grit norton waterstone to pick up some of its slurry and with that 'slurry soaked' paper towel i will rub down the rusty spots on the steel. this seems to work very well. and something that is normally messy can be put to some good use. the rust comes off and the steel is polished. i then oil as normal to get the water and slurry off and no more rust.


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## Cabaxi (9 Mar 2007)

I use citric acid to clean the rust off, ive been given some real rusty tools over the years, just leave in the citric acid for a few hours it just eats the rust away. can be bought quite cheaply on e-bay they use it for bath bombs.


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## Losos (10 Mar 2007)

Hi TonyW - Welome to UKW
I would endorse the comments by Rob Lee - It's the temperature difference (Between tools & air) that is so important. IIRC when the tool is *cooler *than the *surrounding air*, moisture in the air *condenses* onto the tool and rust follows. I use most of the remedies mentioned and in addition I use WD40 - This is not universally popular (I believe it contains silicon or some such thing) but it's cheap if you buy the 5Litre can & use a hand spray (The small aerosol cans are not cheap 'tho  )

For those that use a heated cabinet I have used a *suitable resistor*, (it was originally a heating element in a CCTV camera housing) I'll need to check the ohms & watts butt probably cheaper than either light bulbs or dedicated heating elements.

Hi Wdartsch
A warm welcome to the best woodworking forum in the English speaking world  (I can't say about non English sites 'tho)
What a great idea about using an old fridge, and I *put one on the skip about six months ago* :roll:


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## MilkyBarKid (10 Mar 2007)

May I give an emphatic thumbs down to BOESHEILD - I went to quite some trouble to find it in the UK, it's expensive, and it's been pretty rubbish. I've got more corrosion on my cast iron bits than when I used WD40. Mind you it has been an extremely humid winter. My RH meter has been up in the 80's & 90's almost all the time. (even with the dehumidifier going) Normally there's some respite in the humidity during the winter.
MBK


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## ivan (12 Mar 2007)

Yes, it's the temp. swings wot does it, at least if there's moisture in the air. In an unheated, attached, brick garage steel will rust if the Relative Humidity is 70% or more. (A dial RH gauge is about a fiver) You can either:

1/ reduce the temperature swings by heating and/or insulation

2/ or better and usually cheaper, reduce the RH to below 60% with a dehumidifier. Since running one, no more rust problems at all. 

3/ isolate the steel with oil/grease - time consuming and doesn't work if you miss a bit!


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## engineer one (13 Mar 2007)

although i have not tried it, the product scottoiler FS365 is well recommended by some motorcyclists in the vintage and veteran 
circles.
since it is aimed at bikes, it should work well in the "humid " atmosphere of
a garage.

www.scottoiler.com

paul :wink:


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## Benchwayze (13 Mar 2007)

j":3aayjtd6 said:


> You might also consider a heated tool cabinet. There have been a few threads on this subject. Usually just a low wattage bulb connected to a thermostat in the cupboard.
> 
> Maybe the heat from a few cordless tool chargers is enough to keep the condensation off your tools
> 
> ...



Hi J,

That interested me, as I used to heat my old workshop with a 50 watt bulb. Honest! The bulb was fittted in a batten-lampholder, placed in a round sweet-tin. (Quality Street works best!!!) A few holes bodged in the lid of the tin. This setup replaced the oil tank and wick of an old parrafin heater, leaving the chimney in place. It worked a treat, and I suppose it still would. In fact, if you used a resistor switch, you could use a bigger bulb, and have an adjustable heater! 

Lovely, lovely warmth all for the price of a light bulb's miserly consumption. 

Happy days!  

John


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## Gaz_XB9R (13 Mar 2007)

Just a thought guys, if you're not using the light from the miserly light bulb" it's energy wasted.

Buy an adjustable heater that way whatever energy you do consume is put to good use.

Gaz


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## Chris Knight (13 Mar 2007)

Gaz_XB9R":237koeuj said:


> Just a thought guys, if you're not using the light from the miserly light bulb" it's energy wasted.


Gaz,

Not so - if the light doesn't leave the workshop, it will be eventually absorbed by the atoms that make up the walls etc and just heat those up. For all practical purposes, the entire electrical input into the bulb can be counted as heat energy in terms of computing the effect on workshop temperature.


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## aldel (13 Mar 2007)

It was always considered to make the most efficient use of light bulbs as heaters then the best way is to connect two or even three in series. Plenty of heat with not much light. The life of the bulbs will increase but of course if one fails then the other(s) will stop working. Use bulbs of equal type and wattage.
Less energy wasted producing light.

Try it and see!

aldel


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## Benchwayze (14 Mar 2007)

Inspector":cjji0o0e said:


> > My solution---Old refrigirator,drill a small hole ,fix a15W elektric bulb and you are done.Insulation works both ways+nice and clean.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So you know for sure that the bulb goes out when you shut the 'fridge door! 8)  

John


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## Benchwayze (14 Mar 2007)

Gaz_XB9R":366yzt88 said:


> Just a thought guys, if you're not using the light from the miserly light bulb" it's energy wasted.
> 
> Buy an adjustable heater that way whatever energy you do consume is put to good use.
> 
> Gaz



That's true Gaz, but the converse also applies: If you are using a light bulb, just for light, you are wasting the heat. Which is how I came up with the 'bulb-heater' in the first place. 

Whilst I don't claim it's original, I didn't read it anywhere. To be honest, I tried to be clever, and remove a light bulb that had just blown. I wasn't quick enough and scorched me fingers! :idea: 

That set the thoughts in motion. As for buying an adjusable heater, I wasn't quite so rich back then! In those days, I spent any spare money on tools! 

So I can plead the ignorance of youth and the non-existence' of global warming!

John


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## Benchwayze (14 Mar 2007)

aldel":pd022de0 said:


> It was always considered to make the most efficient use of light bulbs as heaters then the best way is to connect two or even three in series. Plenty of heat with not much light. The life of the bulbs will increase but of course if one fails then the other(s) will stop working. Use bulbs of equal type and wattage.
> Less energy wasted producing light.
> 
> Try it and see!
> ...



Cheers Aldel. I didn't go into things quite that far, but as I said, I use a normal heater these days. 

Right chaps, any more 'bright ideas'!  
Happy Chipping
John


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