# All for a screwdriver



## condeesteso (15 May 2011)

I called by Jim the other day, and was admiring his collection of perfect screwdrivers (is that what they are called?), then bemoaning the difficulty in finding a well-cut screwdriver for no6 and no7 screws. (I use those a lot - brass, slot-head.)
Now, down my way, anything bigger than a no8 is called a joint.
Anyway, Jim gave me this - it's apart already (I can't keep stopping all the time to take pics).
Going to take a while to regrind the blade profile but it will be right tasty, and maybe have maple handle faces... not sure yet. Maybe ebony... balsa?, have to see what's around.

By the way, if you ever call by Jim's, do not take your wallet. I have been twice and so far I'm in for a log-burning stove and a fab old Coronet lathe. I'll get his pillar drill one day too, but he doesn't know that yet. (see Jim's thread on the pillar drill - it is a thing of beauty for sure).

(sorry- edited to correct my screw sizes, now the joke works... for me anyway


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## jimi43 (15 May 2011)

It's a "Perfect Handle" screwdriver.....CLICK HERE

There were other tools that were made with this technique. I like them cos you can bash them without adverse affect...in fact...that is what they are intended for. Useful for mechanics hence many of them having black grease-ridden handles (scales). 

They are so tactile to hold...one of my most favourite designs. I hear tell...Derek has a few :wink: 

Jim

P.S. Keep yer mits off me drill!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## condeesteso (16 May 2011)

update - blade re-profiled and fits a No8 bang-on now. may keep it that way and find a smaller one one day for my 6s and 7s.

Handles next, quite tricky I suspect - Jim gave me a few tips. Prob going to be African blackwood...


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## Alf (16 May 2011)

Perfect handles always makes me think of Scott Grandstaff - he even has perfect handles on tools that never used to have them. His explanation of how he fits new wooden scales is here, fwiw.


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## jimi43 (16 May 2011)

Alf":ri2tocms said:


> Perfect handles always makes me think of Scott Grandstaff - he even has perfect handles on tools that never used to have them. His explanation of how he fits new wooden scales is here, fwiw.




Yup...great minds think alike...that is the conclusion I came to as to how to do it...after spending hours whittling the first one I attempted!  

Jimi


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## condeesteso (16 May 2011)

bang-on good tips, and just at the right time. Fancy a few awls too now!! These things look so great and do feel very good to handle. And I keep learning new words too... scales. Will try and remember.


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## goldeneyedmonkey (17 May 2011)

Alright, I'll show my utter lack of knowledge  ... what's an awl? Do I know it as a Bradawl?

Cheers _Dan


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## matthewwh (18 May 2011)

Hi Dan,

There are three kinds of awl, brad, birdcage and scratch. 

Brad Awls have a screwdriver like tip (and are usually knackered by people trying to use them as a screwdriver or a chisel) these are used in the centre of a board and always started across the grain to avoid splitting. 

Birdcage Awls are the tapered square section, less efficient but safer to use near the edge of a board as their propensity to start splits is lower. 

Scratch Awls or marking points are tapered cylinders and are used much like a marking knife, a point is much less inclined to follow the grain than a knife, so they are a popular tool for long grain marking.


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## goldeneyedmonkey (18 May 2011)

Top-man, cheers. (As soon as I saw your answer it all came flooding back to me! It's been a long day ) I was taught that a Scratch Awl was called a Brad Awl, and that they were the only type of awl! Ha-ha!

Cheers _Dan.


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## bugbear (18 May 2011)

matthewwh":1tzgrcur said:


> Birdcage Awls are the tapered square section, less efficient but safer to use near the edge of a board as their propensity to start splits is lower.



The arris should be sharpened - a birdcage awl is a proper cutting tool, working just like a small tapered reamer.

BugBear


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## pedder (18 May 2011)

Hi, 

the handle is perfect for sure. But in my opinion a slotscrewdriver works much better, when the flats are parallel. 

Cheers 
Pedder


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## Alf (18 May 2011)

There are actually _four_ kinds of awl*. The Brad, the Birdcage, the Scratch, and (wait for it) the Know-it...

I'll get me coat. :wink:

*Actually not even close - but most of them won't trouble the majority of woodworkers so it matters not.


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## bugbear (18 May 2011)

condeesteso":215n769k said:


> update - blade re-profiled and fits a No8 bang-on now. may keep it that way and find a smaller one one day for my 6s and 7s.
> 
> Handles next, quite tricky I suspect - Jim gave me a few tips. Prob going to be African blackwood...



I think I'd have hollow ground the tip(*) - getting a tip parallel by taper grinding leaves it long, thin and potentially weak by comparison.

BugBear

(*) I happen to have a small and usually unhelpful hand grinder with a 3" wheel


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## Harbo (18 May 2011)

I have a couple of these screwdrivers (somewhere?) and although I like the look of them, I find them to be very uncomfortable to use - the metal digs in.
According to Salman they are for rough work and can be used as a cold chisel.
I much prefer the Cabinet type in boxwood.

Rod


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 May 2011)

BB is correct in my opinion .. the blades should be hollow ground and never wedge-shaped. The wedge will cause them to fit poorly in the slot of the screw and cam out.

This is bad ...






.. and this is better ...











Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTo ... crews.html

I have a bunch of Perfect Handle screwdrivers. Mainly they are used for certain dedicated duties, such as opening paint cans. They are pretty nonetheless.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## jimi43 (21 May 2011)

I actually like the feel of the Perfect handle screwdriver....I have seen you collection Derek...it is quite impressive! Any chance of another picture of them?

I spoke with Douglas about the hollow ground issue...I agree with you guys...the flat ground looks nice but to fit into a slot perfectly the end of the driver needs to fit as tight as possible in the slot, all the way up to the top.

Mind you I have seen what Douglas has done with the end of the basket case I gave him and it is quite impressive. Looks like it has been done in a factory!

Jim


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (21 May 2011)

Hi Jimi

I like the clean look of the PH screwdrivers. In fact there was a time I began collecting them because of this. There are about 5 or 6 of varying sizes now lying in a drawer. At one time they were used. This thread inspires me to get them out and restore them (bling them!).






It is just that they proved too small for my hand for comfort. 

As requested, here are my current users (in the newly rebuilt workshop). A set of more traditional flat blades, a few Philips heads, and then a number of Stanleys ...






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## condeesteso (21 May 2011)

Accepted re hollow ground, but we're only talking a few degrees of difference here. First time I've ever studied blade screwdrivers this closely. Have a set of Crown but that's it. Anyway just spent ages hand grinding and they do fit nice, so leave them like that for now. Fitting the shells nice and tight not so easy though. I've started so I'll finish... but not quickly.


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## jimi43 (21 May 2011)

condeesteso":3iynp31l said:


> Accepted re hollow ground, but we're only talking a few degrees of difference here. First time I've ever studied blade screwdrivers this closely. Have a set of Crown but that's it. Anyway just spent ages hand grinding and they do fit nice, so leave them like that for now. Fitting the shells nice and tight not so easy though. I've started so I'll finish... but not quickly.




It's a fine art but when you get the idea...they just get easier. I have to say..my first one was not very good!

Jim


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## bugbear (23 May 2011)

condeesteso":227q2o4y said:


> Accepted re hollow ground, but we're only talking a few degrees of difference here.



I wasn't advocating hollow fur the purpose of getting a parallel end for fit (I don't think screws slots are precise enough for that to a realistic issue).

I was concerned about the weakening effect of all your grinding.

BugBear


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## condeesteso (23 May 2011)

I'll get this fine item finished (handles, oh boy!! - tricky) and use it to see how it stands up. Bearing in mind it's only on brass screws, and I did laboriously hand 'grind' the blade using a honing guide and medium wet&dry, so no heat build at all - and the blade is as thick as can be to still fit a no8 slot. The widely held view is hollow, accepted - but this took so long to do!!
Pedder reckons hollow, and I have seen his saws so could not possibly challenge that 
Guarantee one thing - it will never open a paint can again, in my lifetime.


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## condeesteso (5 Jun 2011)

I know this thread has gone cold, but I started so I'll finish. First, the PH screwdriver now has scales - American walnut (scrap lying around). Tricky to fit really well, and this is the best side (like when you take a pic of the wife). The pins are 4mm brass rod, peined a little, but it's the epoxy that holds the scales on anyway.
The little gem below it was a gift from Jim, in return for some wood, but I am still in his debt.
For ages I have wanted one screwdriver that will do my no3 and 4 brass cabinet screws, which I use a lot. This is THE one.
Hand ground flat, about 6 degrees. Once happy with both faces, then light file tip to get it dead square and also a near push-fit into the slot of the screw-head.
I know the weight of opinion is hollow-ground, but the small angle shouldn't make much odds, and the last stage of filing the tip allows you to creep up on the dead right thickness. But I flat grind mainly because it looks better to ME.
I LOVE this little gem, it sits in the screwdriver rack at the back of the bench... looking cheeky, homely, happy. Call me mad, it's fine.


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## jimi43 (5 Jun 2011)

Superb job you did there with the Perfect Pattern screwdriver Douglas.

Having done a couple, I can vouch for how difficult it is to get them "perfect" (s'cuse the pun!) and as you pointed out...you wanted to follow the rough casting so common on these tools...and you have done that in spades.

I find them very comfortable...unlike the general concensus....and mine all get used for flat head screws before most other patterns.

Little dumpy also looks much better now it has had it's refurbishment. Without getting into the flat/concave arguement again regarding fit...I think that for looks...the flat slope looks the best.

I am absolutely besotted by the gun turnscrew shape though...






...it is the transition from round...through the raised ring to the tapered square profile that is so elegant....

Great thread! (I'll get me coat!  )

Jim


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## condeesteso (6 Jun 2011)

Yes, that Purdey-style is a real beauty - but 'dumpy' is a really great tool for those small screws and it will get inside drawers etc too.
The other side of the PH scales has a small gap at the top. I was concentrating on the pointed shape fit so much I missed that til it was too late. Like when you reverse the car, all going well then suddenly, the front wing takes a bollard out... oops.


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## Benchwayze (6 Jun 2011)

It's not the handle that bothers me so much as the 'spade'. The 'perfect' I have, has a wedge shaped spade and it does jump slots. So as Derek says, it is relegated to other duties. 

I suppose I could hollow grind the 'spade', but I have enough good drivers anyway! 

EDIT:

Another thought crossed my mind... For how much longer will we be able to find a use for trad screwdrivers? Sooner or later the screw-makers will move over to cross-head and square drive screws exclusively.  

John


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## pedder (6 Jun 2011)

Benchwayze":9hk5g5jt said:


> Another thought crossed my mind... For how much longer will we be able to find a use for trad screwdrivers? Sooner or later the screw-makers will move over to cross-head and square drive screws exclusively.
> 
> John



Hi John,

cross head were invented in 1933 and didn't supress the trade heads. I think they will stay wherever is aneed for a visible screw head. I often prescrew with a torx and us a trad head than. 

Cheers 
Pedder


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## Benchwayze (6 Jun 2011)

This is true Pedder.

I have a pump-action Yankee, that was 'issued' with two sets of bits; X-head and slotted, 40 years ago almost. (50 years ago in fact! :shock: ) However, I do notice fewer slotted screws for sale these days. Gone are the times when firms stocked all sizes, all types of head and in all types of 'drive'. Now, if you want slotted screws you have to seek them out in many stores. To be honest I am not fussed, except for nice furniture. Then I like brass slotted, and as you suggest, I usually drive in a steel screw first. 

Where I worked in the 1960s, was not far from Guest, Keen and Nettlefolds, the Mecca for screw-making! (GKN of course) 

If a screw design existed, they made it! 

It's drives me screwy sometimes though. :roll: 

Please excuse the weak joke! It's my age you see? (hammer) 

Regards
John ccasion5:


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## Racers (6 Jun 2011)

Hi,

I thought screwdrivers should be ground so they didn't get to the bottom of the slot, fiting tightly at the top of the slot, so as not to dammage the screw. I read it on a watchmaking site somewhere, seemed to make sense to me.

I have loads of sloted screws both steel and brass for that authentic look.


Pete


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## condeesteso (6 Jun 2011)

Pete - I like the sound of that, I make my blades a slight interference fit, as the brass (screw) is softer than the steel. I can do that easily with a flat/taper grind, and so this whole approach is what I like. As for slot-head, they are readily available still and will remain so I believe. They look good when exposed etc. Actually, try finding a pure brass cross-head. I know cross-heads are technically v good but they look horrible to me. And as long as I am screwing into hardwoods, with screws that may be exposed (even inside a carcase) then I will stick with solid brass, cross-head. Stubborn I am, yes.
By the way, slot-head and appearance. I have a small number of Lie N planes, and every time I got one I noticed that EVEN the screws that hold down the knob and tote have their slots aligned to the sole, either along or at 90 degrees. Is it not the small things that we notice that make a difference? Tom LN... respect!


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## condeesteso (28 Jul 2011)

time to reactivate this thread... Jim keeps finding me ever smaller screwdrivers. Here's the latest below, all tuned up now and looking good. Richard's holdfasts in there working brilliantly.


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## AndyT (28 Jul 2011)

Well, Douglas, I for one think that all this care _is_ worth it.

I will sneak in a confession at the end of this thread and say that I only recently discovered just how much better wooden handled screwdrivers are!

I remember thinking my Dad's were very old fashioned and nothing like as good as the slippery plastic stuff I had bought for myself with my pocket money. Now forty years later I find myself reaching for one of a small selection of proper cabinet handled drivers whenever the screw has a slot in it. They are just so comfortable!

I think I might have to do some surgery and put proper handles onto the cross-point shafts of some of the plastic nasties.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jul 2011)

AndyT":1pqklzjt said:


> I think I might have to do some surgery and put proper handles onto the cross-point shafts of some of the plastic nasties.



Or make yourself some wooden handled ones that will take all types of bits











Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## condeesteso (28 Jul 2011)

very nice indeed Paul - excellent handle profile to hold, and they look fab too  Andy, I'm about the same, only really got onto traditional wooden handle ones a couple of years ago. Main thing I found straight away was how well they fit the T-slot.


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## AndyT (28 Jul 2011)

Thanks Paul - that's a really nice idea I had forgotten about. I must get round to one or two of those.


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## Harbo (28 Jul 2011)

Axminster sell the metal bits.

Rod


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## Scouse (28 Jul 2011)

condeesteso":1r79ogb6 said:


> By the way, slot-head and appearance. I have a small number of Lie N planes, and every time I got one I noticed that EVEN the screws that hold down the knob and tote have their slots aligned to the sole, either along or at 90 degrees.



Haha! I hadn't noticed that but same here!

Generally these two are my turnscrews of choice, both recent additions, but so much more tactile and nicer to use than my modern plastic handled Wera set.






but on the subject of ever smaller screwdrivers, a recent car boot (where else?) find has proved useful, a tiny Yankee USA 2H ratchet. It's been stripped and rebuilt, so it was a bit rougher when I got it, cute though. I'd never seen one before.






Funny how something as seemingly simple as a screwdriver creates an emotional response in it's use.

El.


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jul 2011)

Scouse":38zgmddv said:


> a tiny Yankee USA 2H ratchet.



Ah, must try to get one of those for the collection :lol: 






Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Scouse (28 Jul 2011)

That's a nice selection of tools, I've become a fan of old Yankees in recent months.

I'm in the process of renovating a pre-Stanley North Brothers 130A which is steadfastly refusing to come apart at the handle end!


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## condeesteso (28 Jul 2011)

Scouse / El... that tiny ratchet. I like that**!! And the hardware to make nice insert drivers too. The handle profile - very like the LN countersink I have, but is that an old English design? it does work well, have one on a spalted holly awl I re-did. It's a favourite.

(** it's OK, Jim'll fix it for me :lol: )


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jul 2011)

Scouse":1qb06w24 said:


> That's a nice selection of tools, I've become a fan of old Yankees in recent months.



I've found that now most people use battery-operated drill/drivers, you can pick up old Stanley Yankees very cheaply - many of them in good condition. New ones are now very expensive and not made as well as the old ones.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## jimi43 (28 Jul 2011)

condeesteso":2gki35tc said:


> .. Jim keeps finding me ever smaller screwdrivers. Here's the latest below.....



See...the thing is Douglas...you are a far better guardian of these antique gems than I!

That dinky little boxwood baby has come up beautifully...and now she can continue her life fully vitalised and working for a living!

Enjoy!

Jim


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## condeesteso (21 Oct 2011)

No such thing as a dead thread. Jim found this man - Andrew Losson of Fine Sporting Collectibles:
http://www.finesportingcollectablesltd.co.uk/access.htm

About 1/3rd down the page the screwdrivers. The singles are gone, but I picked a set of the 3 for £30 and they arrived today very nicely packed.










Wonderful little things and a bargain I feel. The 4" square is for scale, longest is about 5 1/2 inches. Andrew reckons they are about 60s or 70s, and came from Lightwood & Son, Birmingham. He has a few sets and got them as new/old stock. The handles are rosewood, the ferrules turned brass, and the blades have a continuous taper.
If you like screwdrivers these ones are beauties, at a great price. (You have to phone him and send a cheque... nice touch that!).


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## jimi43 (21 Oct 2011)

They are of a singular beauty Douglas....as I often find tools related to old and new guns tend to be.

I am off this weekend and one of my plans...along with a bench visit ( 8) ) will be to make some more bits for my latest acquisition......which I shall reveal once it is restored.

I refer of course to the most wonderful "Horace Britton" multi-tool...recently acquired from FleaBay.....





Click on the photograph for a journey into a fascinating man and his beautiful invention!

Cheers

Jim


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## condeesteso (21 Oct 2011)

Jim - I think I've seen that Britton?? You keep finding the really nice items. Partly informed taste, but also a sober reminder to us all about the bird and the worm.


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## Racers (21 Oct 2011)

Hi,

I had an instance where all 5 of my battery drills where flat, so I used one of my Yankees, worked a treat.

Pete


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## jimi43 (21 Oct 2011)

condeesteso":2wqs41gf said:


> Jim - I think I've seen that Britton?? You keep finding the really nice items. Partly informed taste, but also a sober reminder to us all about the bird and the worm.



You have indeed my dear friend.

You were admiring it last time you were here.

It would appear I have an example in near pristine condition, far better than those shown in the town museum.

Alas...it is missing all but three of the bits which would have originally been with it.






As you can see...it's the "Horace" model rather than the "Joshua" model...don't know if that is better or worse.... #-o 






Almost all of the original plating is present....






...along with two turnscrew bits and a point awl.

I really think this was a great find....






....especially on Fleabay at only a fiver! Just goes to show...you can get some bargains if you know what you're looking for! :mrgreen: :wink: 

Jim


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## condeesteso (30 Nov 2013)

Never a dead thread.
I spotted this on eBay recently and had a hunch it may slip by unnoticed - bad shot, poor description etc. I think the description was 'screwdriver, 24 inch'. I recognised it as a screwdriver, but the other bit caught my eye :wink:






Don't recall coming across one this size before (actually about 23 1/2") - made by J H Peace & Son. Very nicely made and been well cared for too.






Need to get some much bigger screws now. It works well on plane cap iron screws but is slightly unwieldy for that. Cost me about £10, and more than half that was the postage.
If anyone knows more about J H Peace, or any serious idea as to likely use (I've had a few of the others already) - please add. Re use, it has 2 owner stamps on it, so I assume was a professional tool in its day.


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## Mr_P (30 Nov 2013)

That's not a screwdriver, this is a screwdriver






Almost 27 inches and the smaller one with a bigger handle is almost 20". Sadly no makers marks but the longest does have 1944 and an arrow.

I'll hang on to them until I find a use for them or Gulliver calls and collects.


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## condeesteso (2 Dec 2013)

OK, you win. I'll probably stop at the 2 footer... hard to find many uses for it. The arrow will be military, MOD I expect (given date too). Maybe they were used more as engineering tools than for woodworking? Mine came from Scotland I think so was likely used for opening the paint tins on Forth Bridge.


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## Cheshirechappie (2 Dec 2013)

I think that's a 'turnscrew' rather than a screwdriver - available until about the 1970s and intended for heavier-duty work. The joiner, shipwright and millwright would have turnscrews, the cabinetmaker and patternmaker would prefer the round-stemmed screwdriver. Some time in the late '70s or '80s, some pillock invented cross-point screws, the power screwdriver, Torx bits and all the other modern rubb - er, developments, thus sealing their fate.


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## AndyT (2 Dec 2013)

Here is a suggestion on why everyone needs a proper man-size screwdriver:






(Marples, 1938, who only listed them up to 18")


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## Spindle (2 Dec 2013)

Hi

Does anyone have any thoughts as to why these screwdrivers are shaped the way they are? Why the reduction in width mid way?

Regards Mick


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## jimi43 (2 Dec 2013)

Spindle":2wrho63h said:


> Hi
> 
> Does anyone have any thoughts as to why these screwdrivers are shaped the way they are? Why the reduction in width mid way?
> 
> Regards Mick



I should think it was a combination of weight reduction, material cost reduction and that it fits the hand better between the thumb and palm.

Jim


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## Spindle (2 Dec 2013)

Jim43":1zwj8dt1 said:


> fits the hand better between the thumb and palm.



Doh! (homer) 

So obvious now you come to mention it  

Thanks Mick


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## Mr_P (2 Dec 2013)

> OK, you win. I'll probably stop at the 2 footer... hard to find many uses for it. The arrow will be military, MOD I expect (given date too). Maybe they were used more as engineering tools than for woodworking? Mine came from Scotland I think so was likely used for opening the paint tins on Forth Bridge.



So the arrow means military, learn something new everyday, so guess its a WMD as issued to the Home Guard. 

Have a few more somewhere all came in job lot from the estate of an amateur dealer/restorer who seemed to purchase all his kit from Lazarus Auctions (Watford phone number).

Thanks for the pic AndyT, guess in the good old days before electric drills a big screwdriver was a better option than using a drill brace upside down.


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## Eric The Viking (4 Dec 2013)

Mr_P":1khroios said:


> > OK, you win. I'll probably stop at the 2 footer... hard to find many uses for it. The arrow will be military, MOD I expect (given date too). Maybe they were used more as engineering tools than for woodworking? Mine came from Scotland I think so was likely used for opening the paint tins on Forth Bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It means to a military contract/specification, often accompanied by the numbered spec. against which it was made. 

It's possible that there's no maker's mark because it was also "war finish": In the early part of WWII, the Ministry of Supply told tool manufacturers to make less effort finishing tools, so as to reduce cost and production time. 

I think many manufacturers initially resented this. So I have a Record #4 that was originally grey-blue (RAF-ish) all over (including the handles!). Instead of rosewood, the handles are beech. The lateral adjuster has "war finish" stamped into it. It's actually a pretty nice smoother (to be fair, I have flattened the sole and tweaked the frog, but that's probably compensating for age), and it's hard to see how the changes made much difference to production cost (apart from the wood used). I think Record were making a point!

Later, as materials became really scarce and cost a crucial factor, they dispensed with 'war finish' labels - everything was made to it, after all! I suspect your screwturn came from that period.

I believe the same finishes continued for a while after the war, too. It's easy to understand the demise of many tool making firms at that point - they would have been in full-on wartime production, to cover losses from enemy activities, etc., then, when peace was restored, many of the military tools were re-used in civilian life, so sales would have collapsed. The late 1940s and 1950s must have been tough for them, despite the need to rebuild infrastructure, etc.

E.


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## MMUK (4 Dec 2013)

This is getting as long as the recent sharpening thread :lol:


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## AndyT (4 Dec 2013)

MMUK":log29w35 said:


> This is getting as long as the recent sharpening thread :lol:




More interesting and informative though!


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## wizard (4 Dec 2013)

Interesting and useful screwdriver


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## condeesteso (5 Dec 2013)

Ah yes Cheshire, I meant turnscrew but forgot. Jim had already put me right on that. I prefer 'turnscrew' anyway, sounds like a tool, whereas 'screwdriver' sounds rather B&Q.
Re the Marples brochure shot Andy. I was trying to see what he was fixing above his head. What exactly is a reputation? :lol:


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## AndyT (5 Dec 2013)

:lol: =D> :lol:


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## Carl P (5 Dec 2013)

Can't quite make it out from the picture, but whatever it is, that reputation's screwed now!

Cheerio,

Carl


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## Henning (6 Dec 2013)

And a little tip for anyone not able or willing to do fantastic restorations and find gems amongst all the rocks... 

I have a set of these: http://www.graceusaguntools.com/screwdrivers.htm which i use for my guns and also for brass slot head screws. Absolutely great for both!


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## condeesteso (7 Dec 2013)

They look rather nice Henning - no prices I note, and what is Maine hardwood, is it different to Kent hardwood at all


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## Henning (9 Dec 2013)

condeesteso":1ckzje5c said:


> They look rather nice Henning - no prices I note, and what is Maine hardwood, is it different to Kent hardwood at all



Not sure what Maine hardwood is at all, it looks suspiciously as oiled Beech, or similar. 
They are rather nice, though, and pricewise not to bad i think. They do make a cabinetmakers set as well, IIRC. 
Look at that: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... rewdrivers 
An assortment specifically for woodscrews! I didn't know, but now i "need" one...

Edit; Also says the handles are birch.


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## Shrubby (9 Dec 2013)

Strange that it took 5 pages before the subject of parallel tips came up
Most slotted screwdrivers have a tapered blade which is a poor fit and tends to damage slotted brass screws by camming out of the slot.
better designs are the hollow ground gunsmith type or the parallel Swiss VSM standard - these also have docked corners so they don't ride up out of the slot as the screw goes into the countersink
Matt


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## jamesicus (9 Dec 2013)

> .......... So the arrow means military, learn something new everyday, so guess its a WMD as issued to the Home Guard ..........





> .......... It means to a military contract/specification, often accompanied by the numbered spec. against which it was made ..........





> .......... It's easy to understand the demise of many tool making firms at that point - they would have been in full-on wartime production, to cover losses from enemy activities, etc., then, when peace was restored, many of the military tools were re-used in civilian life, so sales would have collapsed. The late 1940s and 1950s must have been tough for them, despite the need to rebuild infrastructure, etc. ...........


I discuss this here -- a caveat, many of my notes are based on long ago remembrances. Here is an example of a WD marked chisel (broad arrow) from the WWII years:












James


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## Cheshirechappie (9 Dec 2013)

Shrubby":1fthijnb said:


> Strange that it took 5 pages before the subject of parallel tips came up
> Most slotted screwdrivers have a tapered blade which is a poor fit and tends to damage slotted brass screws by camming out of the slot.
> better designs are the hollow ground gunsmith type or the parallel Swiss VSM standard - these also have docked corners so they don't ride up out of the slot as the screw goes into the countersink
> Matt



Agreed!

A couple of years ago, I refiled the tips of my cabinet screwdrivers so that they neatly fitted the slots of numbers 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 and 12 screws. It was surprising how much thicker the tips were after treatment, and how much more they 'gripped' the screw - putting a screw in is far easier, now.

I think the earliest screws - the 17th and 18th century hand-filed ones - had taper slots, put in with a special screw slotting files. (You can still buy screw-slotting files for such specialist trades as clock and watch making and gunsmithing.) The first turnscrews were thus presumably tapered to suit, but when machine-made screws with parallel slots became more common in the late 18th and 19th century, the toolmakers didn't really catch up - and in some instances, still haven't caught up!

(Additional tip - find one manky old screwdriver with a ragged-out tip, and designate it solely for opening tins, poking crud out of corners and such like jobs. Doesn't half save your decent screwdrivers!)


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## Tony Spear (12 Dec 2013)

Cheshirechappie":3c20hfhh said:


> (Additional tip - find one manky old screwdriver with a ragged-out tip, and designate it solely for opening tins, poking crud out of corners and such like jobs. Doesn't half save your decent screwdrivers!)




Been there, done that - problem is when I need to open a can of paint I can never find the bl**dy thing!


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## condeesteso (6 May 2015)

(never a dead thread!)... Just got a set of the perfect handle cabinet screwdrivers from Workshop Heaven. These:





Not tried them yet but needed some parallel drivers for ages and these look excellent - nicely made (in China, for Chestnut Tools Canada). Excellent value I think. I'm very confident they will work really well, complete with nice instructions on burnishing the ends and with a small basic burnisher included.
It reminds me, why on earth doesn't a company like our own Crown Tools realise that parallel tips are what we want. I have a set of the Crown ones, surely it would be easy for them to offer a parallel option. A shame we have to import but at these prices I doubt anywhere else could compete.
Anyway, look excellent, feel quite good. I'll report back once I have used them. Nice find Matthew =D> =D>


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## jimi43 (6 May 2015)

You could have a butchers at my set next time you're over Douglas....needless to say...fantastic value and quality!

Jimi


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## condeesteso (7 May 2015)

I expect they'll look a lot like mine Jim? btw, is there actually anything left in the WH catalogue you have missed :lol: :lol: 

Just wondering... why the adoption of the perfect pattern for these? They are not for striking or opening tins or removing rusty sods. I do like them and they feel quite nice, but technically intruiged a bit. Must say I do like the size and lower mass of the trad wooden handle. I'll get along with these fine, but any thoughts?


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## jimi43 (7 May 2015)

condeesteso":2qy1lwch said:


> I expect they'll look a lot like mine Jim? btw, is there actually anything left in the WH catalogue you have missed :lol: :lol:
> 
> Just wondering... why the adoption of the perfect pattern for these? They are not for striking or opening tins or removing rusty sods. I do like them and they feel quite nice, but technically intruiged a bit. Must say I do like the size and lower mass of the trad wooden handle. I'll get along with these fine, but any thoughts?



Oooops sorry mate...didn't quite read your post properly...and I kind of thought that they were on the "might buy list" as you hadn't mentioned them during our recent capers though I think I know why that may have been.

We can have a long chat about the merits of the design...they seemed to be more favoured by auto guys simply because of their virtual indestructible design...a few taps and you have a poor man's impact driver. Certainly the (many) old examples I have picked up in my field wanderings around Kent indicate their longevity! 

I have used them quite a bit in anger...on e-BORE mostly as you would appreciate...they are excellent in tightening Asian cable terminals which otherwise seem to defeat most European screwdrivers.

I think they are a sound investment and keenly priced. I certainly don't regret buying them...and I have to say...I am SO glad I occasionally have the breaking strain of a Kit Kat when tool lust sets in...in the direction of Workshop Heaven rather than the rather _*rutted path*_ of another UK supplier who seems to have lost the plot...(again!).

Speak soon...today actually! LOL!

Jimi


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