# Thoughts Of Germany (Slightly Off-Topic)



## Gill (8 Dec 2007)

In this thread, Chas mentioned a German Christmas market. I went to a German Christmas market in Hamburg about 20 years ago and loved it. One of these days, I'll go back to Germany with my hubby and we'll visit a Christmas market together. He's never been to one. However, I'd really love to go to the Erzegebirge region which is the heart of traditional German fretwork and carving.

Now that Christmas is here, it's time to get out the decorations :ho2 . We have loads of Christmas Pyramids, little carousels which are powered by the heat rising from candles and turn a fan. And before anyone gets worried about fire being near wood, these little toys have been around for centuries and are _perfectly_ safe unless used recklessly. I started my collection with a pyramid I bought in Hanover and then added to it with purchases from a shop in Lincoln which imported quality pyramids from the Erzegebirge. Sadly, that shop is no more. We have added a few more pyramids which we bought at the Birmingham German Christmas market but, sadly, the quality isn't that good. I suspect some of the pyramids have more to do with Hong Kong than Hanover.

Nevertheless, the Birmingham German Christmas Market (which is underway now until Christmas) is well worth visiting, especially for scrollers who like bratwursts, glühwein and novelties. There's more info about it here.

This year, I took a few photographs because I'm very interested in the 'chalets' which are used instead of market stalls. Basically, they're wooden sheds with a bit of frippery! Nevertheless, imagine how they could be adapted by an imaginative woodworker.



























Gill


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## CHJ (9 Dec 2007)

Gill":14v04quv said:


> ....... I suspect some of the pyramids have more to do with Hong Kong than Hanover.
> ....



I am afraid you are not far wrong there Gill, over the 20 or so years that we have been visiting Bavaria there has been a distinct change in the products on offer, the shops down in this part of Germany which used to sell the genuine hand crafted (and very expensive) pieces have largely disappeared due to the competition from mass produced items, for a few years they were obviously stamped out but now the bulk are laser cut with the decoration burnt into the surface with controlled power. Still very attractive and of course more affordable for the average person.

We are appalled at the mark-up we see at UK "German" markets, usually double Bavarian prices for goods and food. Even in central Munich they are considerably cheaper.

Actually met and spent some time talking Spinny Things with a Lady Turner yesterday http://www.anitahaering.de the first turner I have located in this area.


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## jigsue (11 Dec 2007)

Our eldest son, lives in Munich, wo we often "do" the Christmas markets. This is the first year in a long time that we haven't been to one. Last year we went to Salzburg, the year before to Nuremberg (wooden toy heaven). We have also bought quite a few bits and pieces in Lidl and Aldi over here.

The "real" stuff is still available, but incredibly pricey. I noticed some schwiboggens on display in the pics. I keep intending to make one, but am unsure as to where to purchase the lights (strings of up to a dozen). All the ones I see seem to be getting longer with 200 + lights. I suppose there must be some specialist shops somewhere.

My favourite part of Christmas markets (including the one I visited in Manchester, last year) is the Gluwein. You can be "warm as a newt" by ten o'clock in the morning!! In fact I think my hubby said "If you don't stop singing so loudly you are on the kinderpunch. Spoilsport!

Sue


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## CHJ (11 Dec 2007)

Hi Sue, the light strings with 10 or 12 bulbs fitted are often available in the local baumart (?spel) {DIY come builders merchants}, this time of year.

They have miniature screw fitting mains voltage bulbs fitted. 
Also if you keep your eyes open at the larger markets like Nuremberg you may find the bulb holders/miniature electric candle holders for sale on the stalls that sell all the bits for the dioramas.

Even saw some 'spares' in Kauhof store.


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## Gill (11 Dec 2007)

Designwood in Germany used to sell pyramid components. Although they still sell the little figures, that seems to be all nowadays. Their site is here but I don't know of any other similar websites. Berry Basket in the USA (whose website has been down for ages :x ) used to sell a couple of pyramid patterns and I bought them a while back, although I've yet to cut them.

I've just checked the Aldi and Lidl websites - nothing of interest there although if anyone is looking to sit comfortably when scrolling, this stool might be just the ticket.

I see from the Designwood website that they now use LED lights. I'd have thought components for these would be available from electrical suppliers such as RS but I wouldn't know how to go about assembling them.

Gill


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## Taffy Turner (12 Dec 2007)

Gill,

Thanks very much for the link to the stool. I have been looking for a suitable stool for ages, and had seen that type in various places, but always for £50, which was too much as far as I am concerned. £20 seems fair though - off to Aldi for me tomorrow!

Regards

Gary


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## StevieB (12 Dec 2007)

I always prefer to stand when scrolling! Not sure if its because my bench is high or because my eyesight is bad, but if I sit behind the saw I have trouble following the line accurately.

Steve.


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## fingerless (12 Dec 2007)

I'm fortunate enough to be married to a woman who lives near Annaberg-Buchholz smack in the middle of the Erzgebirge, and so I have regular opportunities to go out there and sample the delights of the Erzgebirgisch woodcraft when visiting the in-laws.

I have to say that the majority of the stuff at the Birmingham "German" christmas market is poor quality, over priced and mass produced. If you want to see hand made quality items from the Erzgebirge, and can understand a german webpage, look at
http://www.holzkunst-voigtlaender.de/frameset.htm

They mainly do carving and turning. I've been given several Rauechermaenner (smoking men) from the region, and a couple of Schwibbogen (stamped or scroll saw cut scenes with lights over the top in an arch: see http://www.pyramiden-schwibbogen.com/schwibbogen.htm).

It really is a completely different woodwork scene over there. The woodturning is nothing like UK woodturning, focussing mainly on toys or Christmas decorations, with hardly a bowl to be seen, and there are so many carvers doing very high quality figure carving (in the round). Apparently it all stemmed from the silver mining industry in the region, where miners turned to carving to bring in money when the mines were closed.

I can strongly recommend a visit, especially at Christmas time.

Colin


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## CHJ (12 Dec 2007)

fingerless":p19ykhx7 said:


> ........ to see hand made quality items from the Erzgebirge, and can understand a german webpage, look at
> http://www.holzkunst-voigtlaender.de/frameset.htm
> 
> They mainly do carving and turning. I've been given several Rauechermaenner (smoking men) from the region, and a couple of Schwibbogen (stamped or scroll saw cut scenes with lights over the top in an arch: see http://www.pyramiden-schwibbogen.com/schwibbogen.htm).
> ...



Welcome to the forum Colin, Your post got caught by the spam trap, it will leave you alone after a few posts.


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## Gill (12 Dec 2007)

Welcome, Colin, and thank you Chas for helping to make the links accessible. Those websites are well worth visiting and I'm delighted you showed them to us, Colin.

The woodwork on sale at the Birmingham market is indeed a shade of the genuine article. Nevertheless, despite the market's contrived nature I found it sparked my imagination and people who aren't into woodwork will still find it entertaining.

Isn't it funny how there's a definite style of scrolling in the Erzegebirge? Even the Brits can tell when a piece doesn't appear to be authentic. I daresay the vast majority of UK scrollers have learned their techniques from American authors such as Patrick Spielman and Judy Gale Roberts so we don't have a British 'tradition' as such. Come to that, there's such a diverse range of techniques across America that I don't think there's even an American 'tradition' as such.

Gill


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## Gill (12 Dec 2007)

I just 'googled' _Erzgebirgische Volkskunst_ and came up with some fabulous links, including some stores which stock components for this sort of traditional German woodwork.

These were my favourites:

http://www.seiffen.com/shop.php?cat=1&cid=128
http://www.erzgebirgsstube.de/onlinesho ... /index.php
http://www.erzgebirgskunst-shop.de/en/
http://www.kunsthandwerkstube.de/index.php
http://www.erzgebirgsstuebchen.de/index.php?cPath=49
http://www.richter-volkskunst.de/

Gill


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## CHJ (12 Dec 2007)

Spent a couple or so spare hours in Ingolstadt today, the Christmas market there is small but in many ways better than the larger cities in as much as the stall holders appear to be 'more local' and friendlier with an 'individual' selection of products with prices a little lower and little repetition of products between stalls. 40% food and Gluwein stalls do nothing for the figure though and lead to frustration at having to abstain from the latter for the 30 min. drive back to base.

The city markets though are still not as craft orientated as the Weihnachtsmarkts held in places like Hexenagger where there are many private craft specialists and serious hobby people showing their wares.


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