# right hinge for lid?



## reck123 (29 Mar 2021)

Hello all,

I wondered if you could give me some advice on the right hinge for this application. I am still reletively new to world of hinges and there seems to be a lot out there

I have been asked to build a simple library book deposit box made from plywood which includes a lid. I will attach a photo. would two simple butt hinge be the best for the job. i would need to create a mortising jig to make it sit flush, or do i need a longer hinge? piano hinge?

would using a regular blum soft close hinge be sufficent for this purpose. i have never installed one but would like to start using them on future projects so would be useful to trial on this. the lid is 38cm by 32 made from 21mm birch ply so not super heavy.

any reccomendations would be greatly appreciated. looking for something fairly easy to install. thanks for any advice

best regards,

Nick


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## Jacob (29 Mar 2021)

Does it need a hinge at all? Just lift off the lid?
I don't know what a morticing jig is but I'm sure you don't need one!
Simplest would be two butt hinges screwed on to the back edge and the box, with no housing or anything. Not very strong in ply so a piano hinge would be better - make the back panel of the box shorter by the thickness of the hinge so the lid would sit flush on the other three sides
You'd need a chain or a string to hold the lid up and stop it falling right back and pulling off the hinges


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## Cabinetman (29 Mar 2021)

The basic error with the design is that the poor devil who has to empty it has to reach all the way down from the top to the bottom to get the books out, it would be much more sensible to have a drop-down front cover, just ordinary but hinges would be fine. Ian
Edit looking at the sizes you would need to be an orangutan to reach the books at the bottom anyway.


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## Spectric (29 Mar 2021)

I gather that the purpose of this is for people to deposit books and for someone else to later collect them, so why hinges. Just have a removable rear panel that is latched in place, this also resolves the issue raised by cabinet man regarding access.


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## Cabinetman (29 Mar 2021)

Spectric said:


> I gather that the purpose of this is for people to deposit books and for someone else to later collect them, so why hinges. Just have a removable rear panel that is latched in place, this also resolves the issue raised by cabinet man regarding access.


 Why on earth would you put the panel on the back? You’ll have to move the box to drop the panel and you may have noticed that I had also resolved the issue.


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## Spectric (29 Mar 2021)

Because I did not want it to easy so that people could steal the books.


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## Cabinetman (29 Mar 2021)

You obviously don’t visit libraries very often spectrick, these things are stood in the library next to the self scan return desk, surrounded by shelves of books just right for the picking if somebody has that bent. Ian


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## Jacob (29 Mar 2021)

Spectric said:


> Because I did not want it to easy so that people could steal the books.


They'd just steal them from somewhere else. All those open shelves full of books!
Is a bad design though - heavy hard backs don't take kindly to being dropped 3 ft.
A simple shelf would do.


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## Zedgeezer (29 Mar 2021)

There are several hinge options here, but firstly you have to think about the design. Where is the security once the book is inserted, how much security do you need? Many years ago I was in the Guild Of Architectural Ironmongers, and I would suggest that although you are obviously well intentioned there are all sorts of liabilities to consider if you are planning to install this in a public building. I get this seems ridiculous, but you've got issues with fire resistant materials in a building full of paper. Just buying the cheapest steel container of a design that works for you would probably be the best bet and think how much time,effort etc. it would save.


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## TheUnicorn (29 Mar 2021)

Aside from the (valid) points about books being damaged as they drop, I'd essentially be building a lockable cupboard with a letterbox / opening in it.

Also search amazon for "metal drop box" and you'll see quite a few options


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## Zedgeezer (29 Mar 2021)

I wasn't getting at damaging books as they drop in, I was meaning liability if there was a fire. I am guessing that doesn't seem an issue in this situation, but one to be aware of. If I had to design a timber box in this situation I would make it of 25mm ply, have the access hatch in the front at the base, and probably just put a hasp and staple with an internally fixed Butt Hinge( Reversed ). Off course it would mean a gap of a few mm around the surround but are you after practicality / cost or aesthetics?


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## TheUnicorn (29 Mar 2021)

Zedgeezer said:


> I wasn't getting at damaging books as they drop in, I was meaning liability if there was a fire.


not sure if that was in response to me, my comment about the damaged books was in reference to Jacob's comment. The fire risk is a completely valid point too. I think metal is the way to go, and plenty of off the shelf options available


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## Cabinetman (30 Mar 2021)

Zedgeezer said:


> I wasn't getting at damaging books as they drop in, I was meaning liability if there was a fire. I am guessing that doesn't seem an issue in this situation, but one to be aware of. If I had to design a timber box in this situation I would make it of 25mm ply, have the access hatch in the front at the base, and probably just put a hasp and staple with an internally fixed Butt Hinge( Reversed ). Off course it would mean a gap of a few mm around the surround but are you after practicality / cost or aesthetics?


 We have already discussed the fact that it doesn’t need to be locked as it is surrounded by books on shelves anyway and how do you intend to get to the books inside the box or indeed open the door, if you fit the hinges so the lid has to go inwards?


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## reck123 (30 Mar 2021)

Thanks for your reply and input guys. I realise the design has some potential flaws but im just going with what they want here. The base bottom doesn't sit flush with the floor and is about a third of the way up so someone doesnt have to break their back bending down to gather books. There will also be a latch and padlock on the lid.

thanks for your advice @Jacob the chain/or string hadn't occured to me, I have also seen an additional arm that you can fit to which prevents it from going back all the way and slamming shut.

what i meant by mortising jig was just some blocks of wood to form a template the shape of the hinge and using a top bearing flush cut bit make a clearence in the back planel for the hinge
to sit flush.

so a piano hinge is probably the way to go here? is that mainly for strength reasons. 

could i not use a a regular blum hinge or is that not intended for this kind of application.

Thanks everyone for your input so far.


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## Jacob (30 Mar 2021)

reck123 said:


> what i meant by mortising jig was just some blocks of wood to form a template the shape of the hinge and using a top bearing flush cut bit make a clearence in the back planel for the hinge
> ...


Or use a chisel. 5 minutes instead of 5 hours.


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## recipio (31 Mar 2021)

Even if the base is located 1/3 rd up in the unit won't the books take a hammering if they are just dropped in. ? Could you install a movable base on a weak spring like some newspaper dispensers ? I should think simple butt hinges will do for the lid and its worth glueing in some dowels first into the plywood to make the screws a lot more secure. However. I think I would simply put a door on it with a strong lock !


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## TheUnicorn (31 Mar 2021)

have a look at this design Parcel Drop Box for $55 the pivoting door gives a degree of protection to the book, and would allow several box to be returned at once


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