# pattern makers plane



## tobytools (9 Jun 2013)

Hi, this my seem a bit of a silly question but what's a pattern makers plane about, and what's a pattern maker do? Is anyone out there a pattern maker


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## Sheffield Tony (9 Jun 2013)

Pattern makers make a model of a part which is to be cast in metal, which is then used to create a sand casting mold. Quite commonly the pattern is made in wood, often mahogany. 

Whilst I have no claim to experience of pattern making, my dad, who is/was a genuine Sheffield steelworker, spent part of his career working in a pattern shop. Why they needed a patternmaker's plane (the sort with interchangeable bases and irons) I am unsure. They also used a pattern maker's ruler, which is not much use to anyone else as it is oversized to allow for the contraction of metal on cooling, so that the pattern is made oversized by the right amount to ensure that the casting, when cooled, is the right size. Later in his career, my father was a training instructor in welding and fabrication, and used to enjoy pulling the leg of his trainees using his pattern maker's rule to wind them up that they'd made something the wrong size...


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## Duncumb.fc (9 Jun 2013)

Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!

Fraser


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## tobytools (9 Jun 2013)

Frazer, sorry I don't know any one many ask Andy T. And Tony thanks a million im thinking of getting a pattern makers plane just to keep not use but they are like £70, nice tools tho. I like the history to these tools also Sheffield . Best tools ever.
Thanks


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## Duncumb.fc (9 Jun 2013)

I agree, Sheffield tools and history are both fascinating!
Hope you find a nice plane Toby!
Despite having my location as Loughborough, I'm actually currently based near Chichester, do you ever get across to Leeside Tools in Yapton Toby? It's quite a way from you, but it's a great shop!

Fraser


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## AndyT (9 Jun 2013)

Duncumb.fc":sskoc490 said:


> Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
> Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
> If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!
> 
> Fraser



Did someone call?

Let's try and home in on what you are looking for.

At the simplest level, Axminster list a set of new, in-cannel gouges







at £67 for the set of three - http://www.axminster.co.uk/victor-victor-in-cannel-gouge-set-prod370626/

but I expect that you are looking for something longer and thinner, and just possibly cranked.
Used ones are not rare on ebay - though not cheap either. It might be easier to buy from someone who has already filtered through the junk - for example this selection from OldTools in Bexhill: 

http://oldtools.co.uk/tools/Gouges.html

includes some good-looking long thin in-cannel gouges, some of which are cranked.

The same company's Toolnut operation lists these new paring gouges by Henry Taylor






http://www.toolnut.co.uk/products/chisels/gouges/Henry_Taylor_Paring_Gouge_Set_-_5_Piece.html

The set of five is shown as out of stock at the moment but they list some sizes individually.

Another source you could try is Bristol Design, in Bristol. They don't sell on-line so you would need to phone them. They mostly sell second-hand tools, but they have their own make of chisels and carving tools. I can definitely recall seeing cranked paring chisels in there; I can't be sure if they carry cranked gouges or not. Their very minimal web page will at least give you their location and phone number: 

http://www.bristol-design.co.uk

I hope this helps!


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## Duncumb.fc (9 Jun 2013)

Ooh wow, thanks Andy!

I didn't realise Henry Taylor made paring gouges!
Yeah, I've never got on with cranked handles, too much flex, but I've got a nice paring gouge about 12 inches long (not included handle) and another one about 11... They're fantastic!
Old tools is one I didn't know about either, just a glance tells me that they're going to get plenty of business over time from me!

Fraser


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## Duncumb.fc (9 Jun 2013)

Sorry, I also realise that I've completely hijacked this thread!

Back to Pattern Makers Planes!

Fraser


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## Duncumb.fc (9 Jun 2013)

I think I just had a toolgasm...
http://www.leevalley.com/en/newsletters ... ection.htm

Fraser


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## twothumbs (9 Jun 2013)

One of the main skills was that they often worked in reverse which is not an easy thing to do but it would depend on what was being cast.


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## AndyT (9 Jun 2013)

Lurching back to the subject of what pattern makers do - just think of anything made of cast iron - gear wheels, columns, pipes, flanges, planes, most of a steam engine - the pattern makers would have made the exact shape out of wood. They really were the elite of woodworkers, as their products had to be made to exactly the right sizes in complicated shapes.
It wasn't just for cast metal either. I had a summer job once at a factory making cement roofing panels, with a matching range of rainwater hoppers, gulley, flues and suchlike. They had a big pattern making shop which produced the inside shapes for all of those. Some of them had to be made from exotic timbers so as to resist the wear of being wrapped up in hot cement all day long!

They needed to be able to make internal curved surfaces to exact dimensions, hence the requirement for curved bodied planes. They could also use a 'core box plane' for planing sections of cylinders - have a look on Blood and Gore for the Stanley 56 and 57 for the most un-plane looking plane.


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## tobytools (9 Jun 2013)

Andy to the rescue 
Call his name and he will be there a TRUE super hero.
wow so these pattern makers where as you say the elite. I like the planes with a selection of blades and bodies there just good looking tools. Very ££ tho for a tool I have no need for.

As for hijacking the thread is all wood, glad I could aid in you help .
As for the shop I've never been do they thave a web site I can check out might have to do a day trip


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## Duncumb.fc (10 Jun 2013)

tobytools":3tvlgj09 said:


> Andy to the rescue
> Call his name and he will be there a TRUE super hero.
> wow so these pattern makers where as you say the elite. I like the planes with a selection of blades and bodies there just good looking tools. Very ££ tho for a tool I have no need for.
> 
> ...



Here's the website, http://www.leesidetools.com/

They're a mainly in-store jobby...

Fraser


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## Bracken3621 (26 Feb 2016)

Feeling quite elite as I am a time served Pattern Maker and have all my old tools in the very tool box I made as an Apprentice, I was allowed each week to order one tool "no sets" that's was paid for my the company. Dress was shirt and tie compulsory + bib.

It's not a dying trade as you may think.

They will always need Pattern Makers granted times have changed but " there is nothing new, just a variation of the old "

The plane you asked about is not one I had, fillet planes were the most popular along with smoothing planes oh and a nice palm size block plane " bull nosed " many tools we made ie :small hand held routers fillet irons for both leather fillets and wax Ha! for the wax fillets we had an old car wax tin with a wick filled with meth's " fire hazard" know one ever batted an eye lid when your bench would set on fire 

Great times and when I left the owner said to me:

Remember: Pattern Makers don't make good Joiners and Joiners don't make good Pattern Makers ??


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## MusicMan (26 Feb 2016)

Bracken, I'm sure we would all love to see pictures of your pattern-making tools and tool box!

Keith


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## Bracken3621 (27 Feb 2016)

I will dust it off asap Keith


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## toolsntat (27 Feb 2016)

Hi Toby, hope your well, I'll keep my eyes open for you 8) 

Check out this one I managed to get hold of :ho2 :ho2 
Drive by gloat :wink: :roll: 
Andy

pattern-makers-radius-plane-professionally-made-t76276.html?hilit=%20pattern


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## toolsntat (27 Feb 2016)

Duncumb.fc":3j2ox6v1 said:


> Sadly, pattern makers are an all but dead trade.
> Pattern makers gouges are a fascinating one, they're incredibly useful things (paring gouges to some), but sadly they seem to also be dying!
> If anyone could point me to someone who still makes paring gouges I'd be very grateful, searching tool shops for what you know isn't there is getting a bit tedious!
> 
> Fraser



May be worth your while making a visit back to Loughborough Fraser. 
The Stanley sale is coming soon =P~ 25/26th March http://www.davidstanley.com/international-tool-auction
Most of your shopping list would be catered for on the DEALER tables :idea: 

Come to think of it about time we saw you again Toby, Andy, et alia

Cheers
Andy


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## Jelly (27 Feb 2016)

Bracken3621":eoe14xp5 said:


> It's not a dying trade as you may think.
> 
> They will always need Pattern Makers granted times have changed but " there is nothing new, just a variation of the old."



Shrinking Trade might be more appropriate, I was made redundant last year and decided to try to get an apprenticeship as a patternmaker, speaking to about 15 pattern shops and foundries they all had a similar answer in the vein of
"We need to replace someone who's retiring soon, and would be interested in taking someone on... But sales are down and we need them to stabilise before we take anyone on, can you contact us next spring if you're still looking"

I had a long chat with the owner of one foundry, who was explaining how their sand casting operations had changed over time to accommodate larger and more complex pours in increasingly high specifications of alloys, and we both lamented the O&G downturn.


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## katellwood (27 Feb 2016)

tobytools":1ggscweb said:


> Hi, this my seem a bit of a silly question but what's a pattern makers plane about, and what's a pattern maker do? Is anyone out there a pattern maker



As you're in Bournemouth have a ride up to Basingstoke, Milestones Museum. They have a small patternshop setup linked to a traction engine manufacturing display. I saw a patternmakers plane as part of the display (you will recognise it as it has two keyhole shaped slots in the base to facilitate the changing of different bases) 

Its a great day out, well worth a visit 

I served the first six months of my apprenticeship in a patternshop training centre which was attached to a foundry training centre in the seventies. I became aware how accurate the work was and how the foundry workers manipulated the patterns in sand to create the final cast iron item, one of the training exercises for apprentice patternmakers was to make their own plane pattern this being eventually cast next door in the foundry.


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## Bracken3621 (27 Feb 2016)

Jelly":a83vwzu2 said:


> Bracken3621":a83vwzu2 said:
> 
> 
> > It's not a dying trade as you may think.
> ...



The Plastic's & Carbon Fiber are moving fast as is the Motor Designers. Patter Makers have many strings to their bow, best to think out side the box but a good balanced apprenticeship helps I agree, did you ask them for some work experience ? There are so many way to skin a cat " as they say " If the company see you are so keen as to work/learn you may get a foot in the door ? + help for you and them is available.


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## dickm (27 Feb 2016)

Slightly off topic, but are any patterns 3-D printed these days? Daughter reckons there isn't a printable plastic that can replace wax for lost-wax jewellry work, but wondered if it could be used for sandcasting in place of yellow pine?


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## Sheffield Tony (27 Feb 2016)

We had some aluminium castings made last year, I think they were done in sand moulds using patterns machined from some sort of laminated MDF.

I have a much more modest pattern makers plane than Andy's - it is somewhere at the back of the cupboard since there's not a lot of use for them in regular woodworking. I can post a picture if anyone's interested. It has a wooden body with 5 interchangeable bases/irons.


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## arnoldmason8 (27 Feb 2016)

dickm":2p6u0y78 said:


> Slightly off topic, but are any patterns 3-D printed these days? Daughter reckons there isn't a printable plastic that can replace wax for lost-wax jewellry work, but wondered if it could be used for sandcasting in place of yellow pine?



For one off castings, patterns can be made from plastic foam and this is a well established process in the steam loco restoration field. I don't know if this foam can be 3D printed - probably not - but could be N/C machined. If you just need one casting then cosiderable cost savings can be made - yet another nail in the coffin of patternmakers trade.

I remember the foundry manager of a company I worked for in the sixties telling me he had served a seven year apprenticeship - difficult to imagine now.

One of the key skills of a patternmaker is being able to "see" the object to be made in three dimensions from a two dimensional drawing.

Regards --- Arnold


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## Jelly (27 Feb 2016)

Bracken3621":216vrw8w said:


> Jelly":216vrw8w said:
> 
> 
> > Bracken3621":216vrw8w said:
> ...



I'm still thinking about it seriously, fortunately (but not so good for my long term ambitions), I've ended up getting another reasonably paid job in chemistry, and I'm the sole earner until at least another 18 months (missus is doing a Medical Degree)... Apprentice rates are better than the dole, but I can't really justify making life that much harder just to chase after more job satisfaction right now.

This said, I actually need some replacement cast parts for a machine, so am tempted to have a bash at making my own pattern for it, with reference to a lot of printed literature, and likely an excessive amount of time taken. Certainly if I get round to doing that _and it works_, that would be a useful piece to keep around for any future conversations with pattern shops.


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