# Apple press and scratter (was Drilling stainless steel)



## misterfish (11 Jul 2010)

To go with the apple press I'm making I'm also constructing an apple scratter - basically a machine that mechanically pulps apples. 

Part of this involves a 3/4 inch diameter stainless steel rod and I will need to drill at least one (possibly two) 5 or 6mm holes through the bar across the diameter. 

I seem to remember reading somewhere that drilling stainless steel can be difficult, so I would appreciate any advice on drilling stainless steel and also on tapping a thread in the drilled hole.

Misterfish


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## Digit (11 Jul 2010)

Same angles as for mild steel just drill more slowly and maintain the pressure, don't let the drill bit rub or the SS will 'Glaze'.

Roy.


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## CHJ (11 Jul 2010)

Misterfish, if you google " Drilling Stainless Steel" you will get many relevant hits on the subject both technical and general hints.

But if you follow Roys advice and use a sharp drill, slow speed and plenty of pressure to keep the drill cutting then you should be OK.
Avoid any rotational contact without the drill cutting cleanly to avoid work hardening of the SS.

Same with tapping, good quality sharp HSS taps, good cutting compound/fluid and back off tap regularly to break chips because if they become large and work hardened then they might jamb the tap.

Some will argue that good carbon steel taps will be sharper but they will be less robust (not as tough) and more prone to snapping.


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## Oryxdesign (11 Jul 2010)

Colbalt drill bits are good in stainless.


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## misterfish (12 Jul 2010)

CHJ":39pjo7an said:


> Misterfish, if you google " Drilling Stainless Steel" you will get many relevant hits on the subject both technical and general hints.



I tried this first but just got confused as it seemed to be very contradictory.

The conclusion I've come to is:-

1. Use file to flatten surface
2. Use pointy thing hit with hammer to give a dimple at the drilling point
3. Clamp firmly
4. Use new drill bit and cutting oil
5. Drill slowly with steady pressure
6. Use taps slowly and carefully with cutting oil
7. Metaphorically cross fingers.

What do you reckon?

Misterfish


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## CHJ (12 Jul 2010)

> .....
> The conclusion I've come to is:-
> 
> 1. Use file to flatten surface
> ...



That's about it, *1:* may not be necessary if you are good with centre punch and drill web is not too thick or has been relieved. :lol: 

*6:* remember to back off tap every 1/4 - 1/2 turn to break chips.

*8:* You may find advantage using smaller drill first and work up to tapping size. (smaller drill web, less resistance) CAUTION; Subsequent drills may have a tendency to grab so firm drill quill control needed.


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## WoodAddict (12 Jul 2010)

We've always found "Hi-Knox" drill bits to be the best for stainless. We always drill in bursts rather than slowly and continuously. The important thing as mentioned above is to not let the stainless get hot. Plenty of lube or cutting agent will help with this.

hth


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## Richard T (13 Jul 2010)

Coo! I've been making cider for a few years now and contrary to all advice, my scratter has not a wiff of stainless steel anywhere. It's mostly a 1960s Atco mower taken apart and put back together on a wooden frame. The engine drives the drum (former mower drum/roller) that I clad with oak strips and angle iron strips with square teeth filed in. 
Sounds like a nightmare I know but it's works as well as a 1930s tractor driven one I saw working in Sommerset (no stainless there either.) Nevertheless, it's loud; and I was thinking of making a wizzo electric one for this season and would be very interested to know what your plans are.
I'm guessing that this bar you want to drill and tap is the axle for the drum? ...wooden drum? Turned? Stainless steel teeth? Do tell !


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## misterfish (13 Jul 2010)

Richard T":1bzwhumh said:


> ... and would be very interested to know what your plans are.
> I'm guessing that this bar you want to drill and tap is the axle for the drum? ...wooden drum? Turned? Stainless steel teeth? Do tell !



In our previous house in Somerset we had an old cider apple tree and hired a 'pulpmaster' (plastic bucket and spinney cutter thing that fits on an electric drill) and press and experimented with making apple juice and cider. It seemed to work quite well.

Now we've moved to West Sussex and this year looks like we may get a good crop of apples from several trees around the garden. The main croppers are Bramleys which just don't store - they start rotting as soon as you look at them, so we thought rather than wasting them lets try to get some juice, and as an added challenge try to do it all as cheap as possible making use of all that useful stuff that has been kept because it's too good to throw away. So after a bit of research decided to move in the direction of the press and scratter described on the http://www.ukcider.co.uk/wiki/ website.

Both pieces of kit are still WIP!

*The Press.*

I had some old timber from frames removed when Crittal windows were replaced (you can still see the drip grooves in places). Using an old blade I ripped these into usable sizes and cut off all the naff bits - basically I ended up with roughly 4 x 2 and 4 x 6 bits of timber. I had some offcuts of 10mm stainless studding and also some washers and nuts and used these to make the framework. Also used a few screws for the base. The bit that the apple pulp will be put is is a tray made from an old offcut of laminated worktop with the lipping cut from the same wood above. I've also made a pulp frame to mould the 'cheeses'. We've bought a cheap 2 ton bottle press (from Toolstation) and I've got a bit of plastic conduit to make the juice spout.

Anyway, this is it so far:







*The scratter.*

I have a 1/3HP electric motor (part on a very old and retired lathe) and also some 3/4 inch bronze bearing blocks, pulley and lock ring that I got off Ebay years ago for a very small amount.






The hopper will be made from some 20ish mm MFC - my whole workshop is lined with this courtesy of my brother-in-law that was give a trailer load (as in articulated lorry trailer) of large rejected sheets (about 8ft x 9ft) that he uses to line some of his business and farm buildings. I have cut these to size and treated the cut edges to make them water/juice resistant.






So to use this i bought a length of 3/4 inch stainless steel rod from Ebay along with some 3/4 stainless washers. I've now drilled this rod and tapped the hole as you can see below. Also you can see the drum I'm making; constructed from an offcut of an oak beam I had to produce a couple of pieces of 6 x 3. I've temporarily fixed them together with pocket screws and turnd it on the lathe to produce the oak cylinder that is to be studded with stainless steel screws. As I've not got the ability/equipment to accurately drill a correct sized central hole to take the cylinder - I've just found a suitable box core bit and have ordered it from Wealden. I'll then route semicircular channels along the axis of the two halves of the cylinder on my router table.






So tomorrow I'll make the hopper and start on the frame and post more bits on here as I go.

Misterfish


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## jimi43 (13 Jul 2010)

This is absolutely fascinating....

It never ceases to amaze me how diverse the projects are on this forum...

Can't wait for the next episode!

Jim


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## dickm (13 Jul 2010)

Last time I went round Westons (makers of the best cider in the world) I don't remember seeing much stainless steel! And their oldest vat dates from 1880. When I was a kid, we supplied apples for Bulmers, but the locals who brewed their own swore the best cider always had a dead rat in it to help the fermentation....

Sadly, we can't even get apples to grow up here in Aberdeen.


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## OldWood (13 Jul 2010)

"The main croppers are Bramleys which just don't store - they start rotting as soon as you look at them"

I find that an astonishing statement as the the most remarkable feature about Bramleys is their keeping capability. There are three bramleys in different households in my family and all of us are still using them in March/April of the following year.

The only thing I can think of to explain this dichotomy, is that your trees are mis-identified.

Rob


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## laird (14 Jul 2010)

The "pulpmaster" sounds like one of those beates you get to mix cemnt/plaster with (attached to a drill/motor) - but sharpened. Could this be one route ?


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## misterfish (14 Jul 2010)

laird":3nfdbzso said:


> The "pulpmaster" sounds like one of those beates you get to mix cemnt/plaster with (attached to a drill/motor) - but sharpened. Could this be one route ?








As you can see the pulpmaster is a simple (but expensive) option. It is quite hard work when processing a reasonable number of apples and it takes a while to produce a suitable pulp. Also it is very easy to shred the edge of the bucket.

Part of the reason we want to do all this is because it's a different challenge which also makes it enjoyable. Of course any suggestion that the production of fruit juice and cider has any bearing on this would be completely wrong. It's an unfortunate side effect of the whole process that we are forced to drink anything produced as we so hate to waste good food    I'm sure everyone can understand that it's a real burden, but someone's got to do it and rather than impose this task on anybody else we selflessly have volunteered ourselves to do this and save the universe. ccasion5: 

Misterfish


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## Eric The Viking (14 Jul 2010)

Richard T":1s6i6rpz said:


> Coo! I've been making cider for a few years now and contrary to all advice, my scratter has not a wiff of stainless steel anywhere. It's mostly a 1960s Atco mower taken apart and put back together on a wooden frame. The engine drives the drum (former mower drum/roller) that I clad with oak strips and angle iron strips with square teeth filed in.
> Sounds like a nightmare I know but it's works as well as a 1930s tractor driven one I saw working in Sommerset (no stainless there either.) Nevertheless, it's loud; and I was thinking of making a wizzo electric one for this season and would be very interested to know what your plans are.
> I'm guessing that this bar you want to drill and tap is the axle for the drum? ...wooden drum? Turned? Stainless steel teeth? Do tell !



PICTURES PLEASE! 

It sounds wonderful!


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## OldWood (14 Jul 2010)

Eric The Viking said:


> PICTURES PLEASE!
> 
> It sounds wonderful!



I'll echo that - nothing as grand in terms of fruit volume, nor attempting cider, but my apple trees (all 3 of them) are well covered with fruit this year and having attempted to convert the harvest to juice a few years back - tediously - something a bit more mechanical would be welcome.

Rob


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## Richard T (14 Jul 2010)

I know I have some pictures somewhere of cider making activities - I'll scan some when I find them. 
The main problem with my scratter as it is, is that the drum is much too wide. There is at least 12" of sratting area and that is an awful lot of work for it to do even with the petrol engine. 
Looking at professionally made machines, new and old, the drums are only about 9" wide at most. This means that a constant flow of fruit can be coming down in the hopper without danger of over working the motor or engine. Also it means less teeth to make/cut/screw in. 
Of course the sides of the feed at the bottom of the hopper need to be less than the width of the drum so it could be narrowed without shortening/making a new drum. 
Mr. Fish, if you have been looking at the gallery of pictures on ukcider and seen scratter in progress by Richard Tomes, please ignore this. It was my first attempt at one, and not having seen another, I thought that a big, blunt cylindrical grater would work the best. It does, juice-wise but not time-wise. I had to keep stopping to get the pulp out of the drum. 
I must repost up to date pictures there too. 
Very interested to know what your plans for teeth are - in my experience small (3 1/6") and square are the best. Stainless steel screw heads are only about half as efficiant - I've been thinking about looking for small bolts - hex heads could be filed square.


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## Richard T (14 Jul 2010)

ok, I can't remember how to use photobucket ... this may take some time ....


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## Richard T (14 Jul 2010)

Right. Took some photos earlier - This is my scratter in the sorry state of being left in the barn for 18 months since we last used it.






close up of teeth 






10 years ago when I had built the cylinrical grater version, I got half way through 5cwt of perry pears when I knew I had to have something better, so I threw this together in about 5 days and did the rest of the pears. I never got round to re-jigging/finishing off properly (as you can see.) 
So this year I am determined to make time to finally do a proper job.


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## Richard T (17 Jul 2010)

Here it is in action the year before last





Pouring apples under hinged board on top of hopper - with out this it's just a machine for throwing apples 




Loading the small press: Juice already falling out just under the weight of pulp above.





Finger tip conrole ... to star with at least. We can get about 6-8 gallons out of a full load in this press which isn't bad.





But as my trees get bigger I'm going to need something 4' sqaure. I've made the top and bottom boards, but am yet to make the frame.


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