# Project Number two - Side table 1 & 2 - NEW PICTURES



## LarryS. (12 Jun 2008)

So after the garden bench I thought I should try something a next step along in the complexity stakes.

Girlfriend has been after a side-table to go by the sofa in the sun room :






I saw this post by Pryally a few months ago and thought it would be ideal : 
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22847





After a chat with her in charge it was decided that the unit would be 60cms tall, 30cms wide and 39cms deep (so making the unit 6 slats wide each at 6.5cms)

So this afternoon I headed down to Interesting Timbers to buy some 1.5inch thick planks : 













Anyone got any tips on how I can ensure all the boards end up exactly the same width ? I am guessing its all about featherboards ?


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## wizer (13 Jun 2008)

Cut them on the TS then finish thickness them on the P/T


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## Mcluma (13 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":27mm1rxy said:


> Cut them on the TS then finish thickness them on the P/T



That's the way to do it :wink:


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## OPJ (13 Jun 2008)

Paul, before you think about machining it's probably a good idea to stack the timber somewhere indoors for a bit, so that most of the movement and shrinkage will take place before you've built the piece of furniture. I've never sure of precisely "how long" you should store it for really... But you'll want to stack it with sticks in between each layer, to allow the air to pass through.

Their timber's normally well air-dried, so I wouldn't have thought the timber would be too far away from the desired moisture content. It's always best to play it safe. Unless you own a Moisture Meter, I reckon that, with some good summer weather... you should only have to leave it indoors for two or three weeks...?

Once you have your accurate face and edge (from the planer), the thicknesser should ensure that all boards come out the other end in uniform width and thickness (as long as you don't touch anything!!  ). If you're concerned about the finished piece ending up under-size then you could always finish each board 1mm oversize, glue them up and everything, then trim them with a router and straight edge - if you're not confident using hand planes, of course.


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## LarryS. (14 Jun 2008)

olly,

is it safe to put the boards through on their sides to make sure they are all the same width ? Or would they fall over ? Or do I put a few of them through together ?


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## OPJ (15 Jun 2008)

Yes, Paul. As these boards are 2" thick, you shouldn't have to worry about them toppling over in the thicknesser. This problem only really occurs with boards of about 1" thickness and less. But, whatever size timber you're working with, it's always good practice to thickness the board to its final width before turning it 90º and working down to finished thickness.

You're better off feeding them through one at a time - or, as you mentioned in your other post, feeding a second board through just before the first one exits the machine.

In order to feed two of three lengths of timber through at the same time, you should have what's known as a "segmented roller". My machine (and I assume yours is the same) only has one solid length but, I was looking through a back issue of The Woodworker recently and in their review of this machine the photo's clearly showed a segmented roller...?! :shock: 

I wouldn't have thought this matters too much for someone like yourself though, who's only doing this as a hobby part-time.


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## LarryS. (15 Jun 2008)

looked back at Pryallys original post and he just glued the pieces together, do you think this would be strong enough for the joint or should I be looking to use Dowels ?


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## OPJ (15 Jun 2008)

Dowels can be a right PITA if you've not been down that road before! :? 

A glue join with PVA or any type of modern glue should be strong enough on its own, but biscuits can make the assembly and alignment much easier still. If you don't have a biscuit jointer, you should be able to use a 4mm slot cutter in your router.

Another method would be to rout grooves in each edge and then glue "loose tongues" or "splines", which would do the same job, but you should be careful to stop short at each end, unless you want to see them in the finished piece.

Glue alone will still be strong enough but, as you apply pressure from the clamps, without biscuits or splines, the joint can slide with all the glue.


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## LarryS. (15 Jun 2008)

so I've cut the blanks on the tablesaw to some rough lengths. Then I ran them over the Planer thicknesser to get a flat face on each - reason for doing this was I wanted to see if any would be reduced too much to be of any use. Well one piece was (lost about 5mm) so used a spare piece to replace it (didn't have to take more than a mill off any of the other pieces). 

Now all stacked in the sun-room where the table will eventually sit. On Ollys advice I'm going to leave them there for 2 weeks, then do the final planing and thicknessing. Then onto the scary bit of cutting !


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## OPJ (16 Jun 2008)

Looking good Paul, that's the way to do it!  

I like the fact that you've planed your timber slightly before hand so that you can see what you're going to have to work with later. I don't know how professional furniture makers explain this "process" to their clients without buying and storing stacks of timber months in advance...

There's no harm in stacking those odd boards on the right on top of the larger pile, you know! :wink: Looks like you've got a bit of sapwood in that one board furthest to the right... Will you be able to cut or plane it out, do you think? Or can you "hide" it inside, on the underneath?  

I should be going down to Interesting Timbers myself tomorrow morning to return and exchange some walnut and hopefully pick up some English Cherry.


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## LarryS. (17 Jun 2008)

now thats the power of the internet, i hadn't noticed the sapwood !

not sure if I am going to be able to hide it but in the corner I have a spare piece which hopefully will cover any emergencies. Though the worrying thing is I've already had to use half of it without having planed both sides of the wood yet  

Wish I'd bought an extra piece when I was down there (may even go down this weekend and get one just in case)


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## wizer (17 Jun 2008)

Nothing wrong with sapwood if you use it in the right place.


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## OPJ (17 Jun 2008)

WiZeR's right. In some, particularly dark timbers (like walnut :x ) it can stand our far too much for many people's liking. If you find any of the other boards you've bought have a similar amount of sapwood in them you could probably keep all three on the same side of the table so it runs around continuously. Maybe keep it in the centre - almost like a racing stripe...!  

I don't think they're open on weekends, but you may find they're happy for you to return it and swap it for another length... That's what I need to do with some walnut next week (and I bought the stuff in October! :smile.


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## LarryS. (17 Jun 2008)

just checked through all the pieces and found this...aaaagh :





but then looked down the sides of the pieces and it seems the sapwood peters out before breaking through to the other side  

so a great learning experience and got away without having to buy more wood


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## LarryS. (26 Jun 2008)

So the timber should have settled by now, so plan is to plane and thickness it this weekend and do the construction. However I have a couple of questions that I am hoping some of you learned types can answer for me. As a reminder I am building a copy of this :

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22847



(Pryallys original thread)

Three questions are : 

A. Do I join the boards together on their sides, I am assuming so and using biscuits ?

B. The ends of the boards where they meet, do I biscuit there also even though one side of the biscuit will be into the end of a piece ?

C. Most important question - How do I put the table together and ensure that all the ends / sides all line up ? My worry is I put it together and along the top sides a couple of 'fingers' stick up a couple of mill and a couple of other are low by a couple of mill

I've done an illustration to show the areas I mean :






thanks in advance


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## Harbo (26 Jun 2008)

A - yes
B - Pryally used big dovetails or finger joints (cannot tell from the photo) so no biscuits should be required
C - aim to make them just proud then plane off


Rod


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## LarryS. (27 Jun 2008)

thanks rod, I've very little experience of using a hand-plane so far (as this is only project number two), is there a technique or method I can use when planing off the ends to stop myself planing the piece of wood I am planing down to ? 

Or should I actually be aiming to plan a small amount off the piece I am planing to (so making sure they are flush) ? I've just got this worry that I put the thing together and then put a gouge in it !


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## pryally (27 Jun 2008)

i thought i would reply on how i did it (impressed that someone should take inspiration from it)

i ensured my boards where the same width by cutting them on the table saw and then doing a final planing cut (less than a mm) - this was before i bought the Jet planer/thicknesser but it still worked fine.

biscuits where used between boards as suggested.

when glueing the boards up i ensured the joints where staggered correctly at the ends by using offcuts as spacers to ensure ends only projected by 1mm. i then could use my RAS to get them back to flush. i don't think my planing skills would have been up to it.

you can't really use biscuits in the ends, it would be very difficult to do and you would have to cut the slot prior to glueing the boards up as the machine won't fit in the slots! also you could only joint every other joint as you can't get the biscuits in the slots in adjacent joints. difficult to explain but you will understand when you have glued together the boards.

i just used glue and the joint is incredibly strong so i don't think biscuits are required. the table is very heavy as stated in previous thread

good luck and if you need any further advice just let me know


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## LarryS. (27 Jun 2008)

thanks pryally, didn't think you were still on the forum !

So do I take it to mean that you made the sides as complete units, then the top as a complete unit and then put the three parts together ?

Also what is a RAS ? Is it a Random orbit sander (yet another tool I haven't got....yet.....this may be my excuse)



pryally":3f6fat40 said:


> i ensured my boards where the same width by cutting them on the table saw and then doing a final planing cut (less than a mm) - this was before i bought the Jet planer/thicknesser but it still worked fine.


when you say a final planing cut, did you do that on a table saw ? I have just bought a planer/thicknesser so was thinking of ensuring they were all the same thickness and width using that, what do you think ?


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## pryally (27 Jun 2008)

yes, still lurking. 

yes, i glued the two sides and top up first and then sanded these flat and then glued together to make the table. make sure you have decent clamps to ensure you can pull the joints together.

yes, random orbital sander. they do come in really useful if you are not a master of hand planes like me.

i only used the table saw to ensure they were the same width because i didn't own a planer/thicknesser. i think the thickness would be the way to go if you own one.

any further advice let me know


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## LarryS. (27 Jun 2008)

thanks pryally, now I've got an excuse to buy the sander !

excellent


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## OPJ (27 Jun 2008)

RAS? I was certain you meant Radial Arm Saw...! :roll:  

If you don't want to spend more money on a sander, Paul, you _could_ trim back any exposed edges with a router. Clamp a scrap of MDF/ply/whatever next to the joint and put your router on top. Plunge the cutter down so it touches the finished service; this will give you your maximum plunge or depth of cut (make sure you lock it!).

Even then, if your looking to "plane" end-grain, you need to work inwards, especially with a router, so as to prevent breakout.

I guess you'll still need to sand the surface down before you finish it though... If you don't already have a belt sander then (I think you do?), maybe it is time to spend more money after all!  

Planer thicknesser is also the way to go. :wink:


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## LarryS. (27 Jun 2008)

Olly,

When you talk about the router do you mean put the piece of MDF or whatever onto the surface I want to reference to, then plunge down so am touching that surface, then fire the router up on the bit I want to trim flush ?

and when you say 'work inwards' do you mean have the blade turning 'inwards' i.e. turning so its pushing whatever wood it is cutting into another piece of wood (so preventing chip-out)

I have got a belt sander, what grit/s will I need ? Its only got the belt which came with it which is very very coarse

apologies for all the questions but I am in new realms with this job


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## OPJ (28 Jun 2008)

Yes Paul, it sounds like you've got it.  Just be careful not to tip the router or else you could make a mess of things...

As for the belt sander, you want to be careful using any grit as they can quite easily 'dig in' if you don't hold them horizontally on the surface. With coarse grits, they can also remove material at an alarming rate - I wouldn't go for anything less than 120g, finishing with 240g minimum.


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## LarryS. (1 Jul 2008)

Ok so I made a lot of progress on this weekend....

so the wood after 2 weeks seasoning in the sun room :






the set-up for working the wood :





all the pieces planed and thicknessed on two sides to give me two reference edges, then thicknessed the lot down to the smallest pieces thickness 





then left with one reference edge of varying sizes :





all done :





my heath robinson biscuiting set-up





biscuits done, big learning point here was that my £30 wickes biscuit jointer is rubbish (very inconsistent and the adjusting screw doesn't adjust !) so a new one is required, recommendations appreciated, it took me 2 hours to do about 40 biscuits, not good :





glueing up the sides first





Then AAAAGH, I had made sure that both sides had the nice wood facing out, but I'd made them identical ! So the best face of one of the sides would have been pointing inward, how come Norm never does that ?!  So I quickly had to pull an end piece off, re-biscuit it onto the other side, then make some oak biscuits to fit in the holes were left.





started fixing them





then the top





so glued up the unit for the first time. Big learning point here was that I didn't have anything to keep things at 90 degrees whilst clamping, so I am going to be on to Axminster in the next couple of days to order up so things to do just that. Spent so much time trying to get the clamps to hold everything square that it took ages










Have to admit here that after the clamping of one side it was splayed out by about 2 degrees, so when i did the other side I matched it, you can't see from looking at it though

second thing to admit which i couldn't fix, when doing the glue-up I was so concerned over getting the legs at 90 degrees to the top I didn't concentrate on whether the side of the sides (if you see what i mean) were parallel, this could have been simply done by glueing it up on its side and ensuring both legs were on the ground, so a learning point there (only about 5mm difference which you wouldn't hknow unless you look for it). 

then used Ollys suggestion of routing off the excess :





after the routing










my new screwdriver stand that i knocked up to clear the table (it works a treat, saves space and keep my most used bits on hand)





so next jobs are to sand the inside paces, then varnish and finished. 

In the meantime my plan is to head down to interesting timber in the next week to get the timber to make a matching unit. On the second one I think construction time will take about half the time because I know what I am doing now, plus everything should be square !


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## pryally (1 Jul 2008)

looks good.

i wouldn't use varnish though? i finished mine with Liberon finishing oil which gives a nice satin finish (subject to number of coats) and is easily re-finished

let me know if you need any further information.

you can check what the finish looks like by looking at my photos


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## motownmartin (1 Jul 2008)

pryally":38m5h39o said:
 

> looks good.
> 
> i wouldn't use varnish though? i finished mine with Liberon finishing oil which gives a nice satin finish (subject to number of coats) and is easily re-finished
> 
> ...


I'll second that


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## LarryS. (1 Jul 2008)

i'd been wondering about that, will the liberon protect the table from coffee stains e.t.c ? that was the main reason i was thinking of varnish


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## Chems (1 Jul 2008)

A good job there paul, looks very nice is oak nice to work with then?


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## floorman (2 Jul 2008)

nice work , i would use osmo hard wax oil to finish it paul. if you would like some pm me your address and i will send you some.
gary


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## wizer (2 Jul 2008)

Wow Paul, that's come on a treat, I like it. May even nick the idea 

What you could have done to keep everything square is made a 'former' i.e make a ply box which is prefectly square and then build the table over it. Just and idea. Do a search for niki's triangles too. They where good for setting things up square.

Also I'd agree with Osmo Polyx. Very easy to apply and great finish.


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## OPJ (2 Jul 2008)

Looking good so far, Paul. There is one problem though... Your workshop looks very clean and you appear to have a lot of space!! :x :wink: 

What is the problem you are having with your cheap biscuit jointer? Is it the fence? You may still be able to get good results by working off the base only. Better yet, use a router with a 4mm (5/32") slot cutter! :wink: Or you could rout grooves and fit plywood tongues.

I like the jig you made for routing away the excess, no danger of the router tipping there.  

I personally prefer an oil finish over any varnish when it comes to hardwoods; they seem to enhance the true beauty of the grain. Although both finishes will darken or 'yellow' the timber slightly. I used Osmo Polyx on my coffee table, it really is good stuff and it's done with only two coats. It's not a heat-resistant finish, so you'll have to ensure that coasters are in place. As far as I know, Danish Oil and Finishing Oil are also the same.


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## LarryS. (2 Jul 2008)

looks like osmo is the weapon of choice, question is where can I get it ? Ideally I wanted to order from axminster and get free postage (need a few other things) but doesn't look like they stock it ?



floorman":1i9moioa said:


> nice work , i would use osmo hard wax oil to finish it paul. if you would like some pm me your address and i will send you some.
> gary



thanks for the offer gary, its greatly appreciated. However I am going to make another table and then hopefully some more pieces after that so am going to order up a stock


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## LarryS. (2 Jul 2008)

OPJ":19yu3iw7 said:


> Looking good so far, Paul. There is one problem though... Your workshop looks very clean and you appear to have a lot of space!! :x :wink: .



pictures can be deceiving, workshop is fairly small and covered in dust !



OPJ":19yu3iw7 said:


> What is the problem you are having with your cheap biscuit jointer? Is it the fence? You may still be able to get good results by working off the base only. Better yet, use a router with a 4mm (5/32") slot cutter! :wink: Or you could rout grooves and fit plywood tongues.


not the fence, to discount it i worked off the base and still have problems with the plunge mechanism, it isn't consistent and the adjuster screw for the depth doesn't seem to do anything :?


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## OPJ (3 Jul 2008)

Paul, I bought my Osmo Polyx oil from Rutlands. I was about you offer you some myself since you're not far away, but I've just started a couple of projects where I intend to use it! :roll: 

Or, you could trying getting in touch with Osmo, who may be able to tell you of a stockist in your area, meaning you'd be able to get it at your leisure and save on the delivery charge. :wink: 

Sounds like it's time to bin (_recycle!_) that biscuit jointer!  You say the results are inconsistent... If you mean that it's not cutting to the same depth that do you think a new blade might help? Are you able to photograph the depth stop - perhaps it's possible to replace the screw thread?


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## LarryS. (8 Jul 2008)

So I've bought and had delivered some Osmo Plyx-Oil (Clear, Satin). On the back there is a warning message : 

"For wood tending to attract a blue stain in moist surroundings (e.g. Pine, hardwoods) a pre-treatment with biocide-free wax impregnation Osmo Wood Protector is recommended"

I'm assuming that this wouldn't include Oak but want to check before I wreck all my hard word, anyone used this stuff on oak before without any other prep and had no problems ??

thanks

Paul


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## JonnyD (8 Jul 2008)

Hi there is no need for the pre treatment just apply the osmo straight to the oak. I have used osmo for the last 5 years on many projects from staicases to furniture and it is a very good finish. Recently i have tried fiddes hardwax oil which is now available at axminster and i think it is better than the osmo oil.

Nice table by the way

jon


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## Gary M (8 Jul 2008)

LarryS":29vmqply said:


> So I've bought and had delivered some Osmo Plyx-Oil (Clear, Satin). On the back there is a warning message :
> 
> "For wood tending to attract a blue stain in moist surroundings (e.g. Pine, hardwoods) a pre-treatment with biocide-free wax impregnation Osmo Wood Protector is recommended"
> 
> I'm assuming that this wouldn't include Oak but want to check before I wreck all my hard word, anyone used this stuff on oak before without any other prep and had no problems ??



Hi Paul, 

I have only ever used osmo on a walnut unit i made, the oil did indeed go a hazy blue when it dried out, I ended up sanding it back to bare wood and using danish oil. No problems at all. So just be carefull, the manufacturer would'nt go to the bother of puting this warning on their product for no reason 
:wink: 

Nice table, as regards keeping everything square and parallel, i always tack or clamp a few strips of ply or something across the bottom and diagonals to keep them in place while the glue drys.
HTH
Gary.


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## LarryS. (8 Jul 2008)

thanks John / Gary, what I've done now is apply some to a scrap piece so will see how that gets on

gutted to hear fiddes is better, as I orderde the osmo from rutlands and have made another order to axminster for some other bits (as they didn't sell osmo !)

never mind
 

paul


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## woodbloke (11 Jul 2008)

Paul - Osmo is very good stuff. I've used it on a couple of projects and am using it to finish off the current one, which ought to be done soon. The trick is to apply two _thin_ coats. I then use some soft teak wax (I use the matt Osmo) over the top to give a hint of lustre. 
Project is looking good BTW - Rob


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## LarryS. (11 Jul 2008)

thanks for the tip rob, would B&Q sell a wax (don't want to make another order for just one item and then have to pay postage)


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## woodbloke (12 Jul 2008)

Paul - you may well be able to get hold of a decent wax in one of the sheds. However if you have a half-decent old fashioned iron mongers in your neck of the woods, or a good quality furniture shop in town, I think that would be a better place to look than B&Q...just don't get anything with silicone in it - Rob


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## LarryS. (24 Aug 2008)

OK so I've let this thread slip for a while as work has been really busy, the old work life balance has definately been out of kilter. Anyway, I've actually now built a second table, so here are some pictures :

more wood :





thicknessed









put the top together, and decided that bank balance didn't have enough red in it, so bought a new toy :





then put together the sides, and sanded the lot :





new clamps to make sure everything is true :




just to prove that I did need to buy those extra clamps : 





so tonight i brought the second table into the house to stain it, and to give the top of the first table another coat (it needed it). Here, they are, the one in the back being the newest table :





What's different between the two ? Experience : 

a. Second one has much better use of grain direction (I spent more time checking that cathedral grain was in the right places)

b. No biscuits used, decided it was as easy to do without and saved me an hour or two in the build (for no detriment as far as I can see)

c. All the angles are spot on (because of more clamps this time and the angle guides).

d. Used the metabo sander with bosch 240 grit paper and then hermes 400 grit, which sanded and polished a lot better than my old quarter sheet sander. Have to say the Metabo was worth every penny, would highly recommend it, actually polished the unit so it was reflecting light

So a great learning experience, next project is a fire surround (see Design forum for the thread)

hope you like the tables.


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## OPJ (25 Aug 2008)

Thanks for sharing these pictures, Paul.

I didn't realise you were making two of them but they do look good (I can't see any big gaps or anything! :wink and the Osmo oil appears to have done you proud.

You're right about the second table, you can see it 'shining' in the photo!


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