# Cabinet Making / Furniture Maker Apprenticeship Advice



## not_simple_si (21 Jul 2010)

Hi All! 

I have been reading through your forum and would love to get some advice. I am a 31 year old Product Designer who loves being in the workshop. I design my own furniture amongst other things, but lack the knowledge and experience to realise these... although I am making a good attempt to do so. 

To cut a long story short, I hit a brick wall about a year ago trying to obtain an apprenticeship and/or a job to learn the trade. I am based in Scotland (Edinburgh) where I went round all the local Workshops (and slightly further afield) and was basically told that they would much rather pay a 16-18 year old than me. This was not very encouraging (and not what I wanted to hear), but this is something I want to do. All I want to do is learn! I approached the Government Apprenticeship schemes and have not been lucky there either. I have even considered the costly furniture making courses, but unfortunately my pockets don't run that deep. 

Is there anything that I may have overlooked or is there another way into the industry? 

I look forward to hearing from you. 

Thanks, 


*Si*


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## Chems (21 Jul 2010)

Buy some tools and get learning!

^Thats not probably very helpful. What I mean is there is nothing to woodworking you can't teach yourself. What is it exactly you feel you need to learn?


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## superunknown (21 Jul 2010)

I have the same answer, practice and read and ask lots of questions. 

I wish you all the best


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## Doctor (21 Jul 2010)

be persistent, someone knocks on my door and I wouldn't take a lot of notice, knock on it 2 or 3 times a month and I start to think your serious.
Chems and superunknown are correct that practice makes you better but I believe working in a pro workshop is essential to learn speed and techniques.


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## superunknown (21 Jul 2010)

Thats a very good point made by the DR, persistence could be good. Experience in a pro workshop would be fantastic, you will learn things there you can't from collage or books. Maybe you could ask some workshops if you could just be there and watch and take it all in, get an understanding how things are done?


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## big soft moose (21 Jul 2010)

If you already know the design and sales side you dont really need to be an apprentice - and the pros are likely to be wary of training up a potential competitor

sounds to me like you might be better served by a course to pick up the skills and then as chems and super unknown say get the tools and get practicing (and read this forum and others from start to finish). When i say a course i'm thinking of the C&G type like what olly (OPJ) is doing rather than the hugely expensive short courses


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## Sgian Dubh (21 Jul 2010)

superunknown":2idx7wf5 said:


> Experience in a pro workshop would be fantastic...



True.



superunknown":2idx7wf5 said:


> ... you will learn things there you can't from collage or books.



Also true, but you won't necessarily learn what a college course can instil.

My point is that the various routes to learning aren't mutually exclusive-- they can often complement one another sometimes leading to a more fulfilling career, although that isn't always the case either. 

There is no perfect route to becoming what you want to be. Slainte.


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## woodbloke (21 Jul 2010)

superunknown":3f8pebkl said:


> you will learn things there you can't from collage or books.


What you learn in a pro 'shop are the short cuts, the tricks of the trade (and there are loads) which gets the job out the door on time - Rob


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## Dibs-h (21 Jul 2010)

Check out the local college\s - there must be an evening course on somewhere. Would definitely be a good place to start with the technical side of things.

HIH

Dibs


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## not_simple_si (21 Jul 2010)

Thanks for the information. Really appreciate the input. An evening class would be great, but unfortunately the nearest cabinet making night class is in Glasgow and making it through on time (from work) is an impossible task. I am nosying around other colleges at the moment too.

Big Soft Moose... what is the C&G course you mentioned?


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## BradNaylor (22 Jul 2010)

Si,

Like Doctor, I too run a cabinetmaking business, although mine is on a far more humble scale than his! Two recent experiences might give you encouragement.

A month or so ago, a guy in his fifties turned up at the workshop and introduced himself as a university lecturer and enthusiastic amateur woodworker who wanted to experience life in a professional environment and to pick up some tips. Could he come and help out one day a week for no pay? We agreed to give it a try and it has since proved to be a mutually beneficial arrangement - he is a great bloke who has fitted in very well, is a useful extra pair of hands, and always stands his round in the pub after work!:lol: 

A couple of weeks ago a lad of 25ish roared up on a motorbike and similarly asked if there was any chance of some part-time work. He had just finished a three year furniture-making course at the local college and was looking to make his future in cabinetmaking. He was currently working as a manager of a trendy bar/cafe and so could organise his shifts around our requirements.

Seeing nothing to lose we agreed to a trial couple of days. He has quickly made himself indispensable and a regular fixture. We are paying him what we consider a fairly meagre day rate two days a week but it is probably as much as he earns in the bar. Everyone's a winner!

My point is that there are opportunities out there for a guy in your position but you have to make the proposition attractive to any potential employer. Taking someone on full-time is a massive commitment and something that most small companies will avoid in the current climate. Once you've got your foot in the door however, attitudes change. If things continue to go well it would not take a lot to persuade us to offer Joe (the young guy) a full-time position. We would not have even considered it at the outset.

Think about how you can make it easy for a local cabinetmaker to give you a chance without commitment. My feeling is that this approach will be more effective with a small one or two man business rather than a bigger concern.

Meanwhile, a college course sounds like a good idea.

Cheers
Brad


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## acewoodturner (22 Jul 2010)

Hi Si

I completed my HND in Furniture Design and Construction at Adam Smith College in Kirkcaldy 8 years ago. This was a full time course (if you could call 2.5 days a week full time). Dont know if the course is still running as they have changed the venue and I believe there werent a lot of students graduating according to my mate who was a lecturer there. There is also a variety of night classes running.
Carnegie college in Dunfermline also run HND in Furniture restoration and do a variety of modules. They may also do evening classes. Adam Smith also have classes during the day in Glenrothes at the Stenton campus.
There are possibly evening classes in Schools or colleges in Edinburgh. My mate who is a local cabinet maker is a graduate of design of Edinburgh College of Art so they may run infill or evening classes. You could phone the council education dept or community services who run the adult education programme or pop into your local community education centre and ask the community education worker for advice/info.
For a list of small cabinet making shops you could try Craft Scotland website and search in your local area.
I now run my own woodturning/ cabinet making workshop and would be happy for you to pop over to Glenrothes for a chat but I am not looking for an apprentice just now


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## big soft moose (22 Jul 2010)

BradNaylor":18x5cuda said:


> A couple of weeks ago a lad of 25ish roared up on a motorbike and similarly asked if there was any chance of some part-time work. He had just finished a three year furniture-making course at the local college and was looking to make his future in cabinetmaking. He was currently working as a manager of a trendy bar/cafe and so could organise his shifts around our requirements.
> 
> *Seeing nothing to lose *we agreed to a trial couple of days. He has quickly made himself indispensable and a regular fixture. We are paying him what we consider a fairly meagre day rate two days a week but it is probably as much as he earns in the bar. Everyone's a winner!



A bit of devils advocacy - isnt what you have to lose the possibility that once you have trained him up in a couple of years he goes out on his own and takes a load of work that would otherwise have come to you ?

Or do you have more than you can handle available anyway so its not a concern ?

certainly the "I wont train up a competitor" argument was what my brother in law heard a lot when he was looking for a placement with a gas fitter


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## BradNaylor (22 Jul 2010)

Anybody we train up would be a fool to want to go it alone. I'm 50, my business partner is 49; neither of us going to want to be full-time on the tools for more than another ten years or so. There is a fantastic opportunity for the right guy to take over the running of the business at some point in the future, enabling us to become arty- farty 'designer-makers' pottering about with hand-tools and generally getting in the way!

:lol:


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## RussianRouter (22 Jul 2010)

> approached the Government Apprenticeship schemes



Whats that when its at home?

Goverment schemes are run fo those who are unemployed and feel the need to expeience a new trade to help them attain work in the chosen field.

What do you mean by not had much luck? anyone who is still active in working life is and can apply for the scheme,bearing in mind these days its 13weeks basic I think?


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## big soft moose (22 Jul 2010)

RussianRouter":33rz89oc said:


> > approached the Government Apprenticeship schemes
> 
> 
> 
> ...



a lot of govt cash for apprenticeships is aimed ring fenced for those under 25 - however dont feel too worried by the unfairness as this as the whole thing is on the cut list for the new govt anyway so shortly there'll be no cash regardless of age.

its a big society .... with big debt from paying for stuff that the govt wont fund anymore :evil:


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## not_simple_si (26 Jul 2010)

Thanks for all your input and advice. ;o)


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## Mo.A (4 Apr 2014)

I'm in a similar situation to the original poster - so if there's anyone in Edinburgh that's looking for a spare pair of hands then id be happy to pop along.

Having workshop experience, experienced workers and different projects sure would be beneficial!


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## custard (4 Apr 2014)

Be really careful before you pay for private training. There are some excellent private training operations out there, Peter Sefton or Waters & Acland for example offer really well structured training programmes with a high level of personal tuition. All as it should be. 

But there are also some pretty terrible woodworking schools, which unfortunately includes some of the regular advertisers in the woodworking magazines. I've met people who have basically wasted a great deal of money and many months of their lives, people who have been sold a great story but where the real training experience simply failed to deliver.


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## petermillard (4 Apr 2014)

Guys, this thread's from 2010; I'd guess the OP's either sorted it out by now, or given up...


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