# Library shelves



## MikeG.

One of my forthcoming jobs includes designing a private library. This will be in solid timber, and I am curious as to whether or not there are timbers to avoid. Do any timbers (or any finishes) react with books?


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## Doug71

MDF can be a bit saggy.......


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## MikeK

I am interested in this as well, now that I've convinced my wife she doesn't need a bunch of book wheels. Until you asked the question, I was leaning towards cherry or walnut, since I have a local source for these.


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## MikeG.

Doug71 said:


> MDF can be a bit saggy.......



I don't think there will be any MDF within about 5 miles of the project, literally.


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## Coyote

How much time would there be between finishing and it being used? I'd imagine any oil based finish could be drawn into the paper unless enough time could be left for it to cure completely.


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## MikeG.

I don't know the answer to that, but I have no doubt that we could control that to an extent. If we specify a beautiful library and agree a finish with the clients but tell them they'd need to wait X amount of time before filling the shelves, that would obviously play into the decision.


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## Eshmiel

The major factor for library shelving is likely to be the flexure of the timber employed to make shelves unsupported other than at their ends. The degree to which various timbers flex under a load depends not just on the species but on its individual characteristics such as it's density, straightness (or otherwise) of grain, how the grain runs in a shelf component, thickness of timber used, loads to be carried per length of shelf and so forth.

You can find technical information about all this is Hoadley's "Understanding Wood" and probably in several other learned tomes of that ilk. "Cut & Dried" by Richard Jones for example, recently published by Lost Art Press, is likely to have a lot of information about timber flexure as well as a hundred other properties of wood used in cabinet making.

Few timbers are going to off-gas or otherwise emit something likely to interfere with paper in books. Camphor, cedar and similar maybe ....... Pines might ooze resin on to an expensive item, I suppose.

Eshmiel


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## custard

I've seen library shelving in Oak, Pine, Walnut, Cedar, Sycamore, and Sweet Chestnut, there's probably others that I've forgotten about! They all seem to have worked out well enough. 

Regarding finishes, there a dizzying range of possibilities. For the shelves themselves I personally like a really simple 1/2lb or 1lb cut of shellac brushed on. It also gives a decent, inert barrier between the books and the wood. I tend to use this for the inside of desk drawers for the same reason.


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## AJB Temple

Most of the original library shelves in the Oxford libraries were oak. Including the few remaining ancient examples where books were chained to shelves and reading slopes. Traditional I know, but will last forever and accept wear and wide range of finishes.

Book conservators seem happy with oak.


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## thetyreman

I love the look of open grained woods like oak, ash and elm for bookshelves...


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## MikeG.

Eshmiel said:


> The major factor for library shelving is likely to be the flexure of the timber employed to make shelves........



That bit I can manage.


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## AJB Temple

We are probably seeming unimaginative. In my mind the books are the star attraction. How about making all the shelves out of glass, with ground edges.


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## Yojevol

Avoid anything that's got bookworm


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## Doug71

Will it have one of those ladders on wheels, it's on my bucket list to build someone a library incorporating a ladder on wheels.


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## Jake

British Library does not have that strong feelings apart from enamelled metal is the gold standard. The only real concern it mentions is VOC concerns and it makes that sound a bit perfectionist and suggests a solution. Preservation guides | Conservation | British Library (library and archive storage furniture).

Then I drifted out of curiousity into pages on museum cabinets etc and wood is BAD in those circles, particularly acidic or resinous ones, and coatings are another minefield.

How valuable are these books? British Library advice of an acid free paper shelf liner (over whatever you want to use) sounds down to earth.


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## MikeG.

That's excellent Jake, thanks.


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## MikeG.

Doug71 said:


> Will it have one of those ladders on wheels, it's on my bucket list to build someone a library incorporating a ladder on wheels.



It might do.


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## MikeG.

AJB Temple said:


> We are probably seeming unimaginative. In my mind the books are the star attraction. How about making all the shelves out of glass, with ground edges.



No, it's going to be solid wood in a heavy classic style.....breakfront units with glazed doors, big carved pediments, and so on. I think the clients will probably suggest mahogany. The budget would probably build a small house.


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## PAC1

Many Barristers Chambers have Mahogany or Oak Bookcases full of the heaviest books you can imagine. I have never seen problems with them. The books are invariably hard covers so the paper is elevated slightly off the shelf. Some of the books will be 150 years old as many law reports started circa 1870s (some much older but rare). The American (Norm) design of "Barristers Bookcase" does not chime with any I see in the UK, more like the description of the one you are making.


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## MikeG.

To be clear, I'm not making this. I'm wearing my architect's hat and designing it (and I haven't even got close to starting it yet). I just know it's on the horizon, and wanted to be informed of the issues before having conversations with the other architects and with the clients. This project is a collaborative one, but I've put my name on the library....I've always wanted to design one. Just as a clue, it is going to be along the lines of this sort of thing, grabbed from the internet:







.........but maybe with glazed doors along the lines of this one:


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## PAC1

Oooh I like the little curtains above the books to stop dust


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## MikeG.

Yes, that's the first time I've ever seen that done. They show up the sag in that centre section of shelving really nicely!!


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## lurker

MikeG. said:


> I don't think there will be any MDF within about 5 miles of the project, literally.



Must be a very remote dwelling if there is literally no MDF within five miles.


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## MikeG.

lurker said:


> Must be a very remote dwelling if there is literally no MDF within five miles.



Yep.


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## AJB Temple

In which case (your pictures) their intentions for furnishing and hanging of paintings will be relevant.

It may be worth visiting a few classic libraries such as Blenheim Palace and the Bodlean. I always admire the double height ones with a gallery. If they have ancient books in the collection, then a nod to the chain racks (to prevent theft before printing presses became common) and reading slopes might be interesting. 

Very interesting project. I hope you will be allowed to post some pictures.


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## MikeG.

AJB Temple said:


> In which case their intentions for furnishing and hanging of paintings will be relevant.



Indeed. As I intimated, designing a room like this will be a delight.


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## Nelly111s

What a fantastic project to be involved in.


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## Donald Sinclair

MikeG. said:


> One of my forthcoming jobs includes designing a private library. This will be in solid timber, and I am curious as to whether or not there are timbers to avoid. Do any timbers (or any finishes) react with books?


I have found this site useful to determine thickness of shelf required for specific types of wood


The Sagulator – WoodBin


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## MikeG.

Thanks Donald. I've used the sagulator site for years....very useful.


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## Droogs

Here's all the inspiration you need MikeG, having spoken to the curator on one of my visits, they just use beeswax









The World’s Most Beautiful Library Is In Prague, Czech Republic


The Klementinum library, a beautiful example of Baroque architecture, was first opened in 1722 as part of the Jesuit university, and houses over 20,000 books. It was voted as one of the most beautiful and majestic libraries in the world by our readers!




www.boredpanda.com


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## MikeG.

My goodness.......

I'm waiting for someone to post a piccie of Livraria Lello, in Porto.


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## recipio

You can avoid spending megabucks on solid wood shelving by using torsion boxes. I've posted elsewhere about using flush doors which can be cut down and re strengthened by glueing in a batten between the cut outer skins. Otherwise you can use 18 mm wood let into a dado in 40 -50 mm battens front and back although this will produce a 'lip' .
Have a look at the 'sagulator ' which calculates deflection due to a load - something that looks awful in any bookcase !


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## MikeG.

Erm.....take a look at the photos on the previous page and see if A/ a torsion box would be suitable for the style of library, and B/ whether saving money is anywhere on the list of criteria for this project. Those photos really are representative of the scale and style of this project.

If you'd read the thread you'd see that the sagulator has already been posted about multiple times.


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## Eric The Viking

One tip, if using Tonk strip, don't skimp and use the cheap clips. We had several shelves fall under the weight of encyclopedias and coffee-table books - surprisingly dense (the books I mean!). Around the start of lockdown we swapped out all the clips for the robust folded ones, available from the usual suspects in a range of finishes. There's a thread about it. We only have one wall - the fireplace one, with four bays altogether. The bookshelves go down to dado rail height, and the space below hides the radiators, which have the advantage of stopping damp getting to the books. There's room in front of the rads for small objects like CDs. When we planned it I was worried they would get too dry, but that hasn't proven to be the case. The cupboards also hide the floor vents for the fireplace air supply.

We do have veneered + edged MDF shelves, and they haven't really sagged very much. That said I do flip them over occasionally - probably every couple of years. I'm glad of them as the movement from changes in temp and humidity is a problem we don't really have to worry about.


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## MikeG.

I suspect we'll end up with fixed shelves.


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## AndyT

What a marvellous opportunity! There are so many beautiful libraries to look at for inspiration.
If your design happens to need anything like an issue desk, (I guess not, but never mind... ;-)) it gives me an excuse to post this picture of one in the New York public library. I thought it was an interesting example of what could once have been specified and paid for, as being good enough for the general public to use.


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## bjm

The answer to your initial question will depend largely on whether the owner of the books has any interest in the long-term conservation of their collection? I went down this rabbit-hole a few months ago looking into the storage of coins for a collector and my conclusion was that it was best to gently walk away!

There are good resources, now online (search for Oddy test), that will tell you what is suitable (or not) if conservation is a factor to be taken into consideration. Museums and libraries are taking this stuff quite seriously now and they seem to be sharing most of their knowledge. As I say though, it can be a bit of a rabbit hole!


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## MikeG.

bjm said:


> The answer to your initial question will depend largely on whether the owner of the books has any interest in the long-term conservation of their collection?......



Very much so.


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## thetyreman

I find this library inspiring and somewhere I've always wanted to visit The Memorial Library | Bedales School | Independent school | Petersfield, Hampshire


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## MikeG.

Lovely, Ben. Really nice.

This will be grand country house style, rather than aisled barn style, though.


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## bjm

MikeG. said:


> Very much so.


A former colleague had some academic literature on the choice of timber in museum storage when I was looking into this but....he forgot to send it.....I will chase it up.


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## MusicMan

I've built loads of bookshelves, for my wife and I, probably for around 3000 books, some valuable historic, many academic hence expensive, many paperbacks. In fact I designed my bench as an 8' one to specialise on bookcases. Nothing of the quality level of the BL or of your beautiful examples from the internet, and the relatively small amount of material that we have that really needs preservation is kept in archival quality acid-free boxes. It depends therefore if it is for a working scholarly library like ours, or an architectural/artistic showpiece. The ones you show, with beautiful matched sets of nicely bound books in matched heights, are for show, not for scholarship or reading.

Most of my bookshelves are pine of some sort, with occasional other woods. Oak would be my choice if cost were not a consideration, cherry looks good and is frequently seen in US libraries, walnut too. I never build glass fronts on them as it hinders taking them out for actual reading.

I think you should avoid tropical hardwoods on conservation grounds as well as finding them difficult to get. All _Dalbergia_ species (rosewoods), I think all _Swietanias_ (true mahoganies) are now on the CITES Appendix 2 because they are endangered. This means that one cannot get them except (a) expensively _and_ (b) by using rule-evading dodgy practices. Some mahogany-like woods are available, see their entries in The Wood Database. Good native or European species would be oak, ash, walnut, cherry, maple, Douglas fir. Please persuade your clients to consider the sustainability of whatever they choose. See also Custard's eloquent posts on this topic.

I would definitely avoid a pure oil finish as likely to damage the books. Even with much time to dry, there is still a danger of contamination over time. And oil does need occasional renewal, not an easy task if you have to remove all the books for a month. Almost all of mine are done with some sort of polyurethane finish, usually two coats with denibbing. More recently I have started using Fiddes Hardwax Oil, which does seem impervious to most things, but would want to research this more before using it on a major project. Note that archivists prefer non-organic finishes to eliminate risk of insect damage. Renaissance Wax, designed by the British Museum and commonly used in finishing conserved museum objects (I am an occasional consultant to the Royal College of Music Museum on woodwind instruments), is purely inorganic. I would prefer to avoid shellac for a similar reason and because over long periods of time it can sometimes degrade.

I look forward to seeing how this project develops!


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## MikeG.

MusicMan said:


> .....I look forward to seeing how this project develops!



Thanks for the thoughtful post, MM. Much appreciated. I'm completely with you on timber choice, and suspect that the final choice is going to boil down to oak, walnut or cherry. I'd never get involved with a project that uses mahogany. I'm afraid that you are never going to see anything of this project, though, as it is for a private client, and the last thing they would want would be publicity.

-

As an irrelevant aside, my best buddy teaches at the RCM,


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## PAC1

MusicMan said:


> The ones you show, with beautiful matched sets of nicely bound books in matched heights, are for show, not for scholarship or reading.


Not all. I know plenty of identical sets of books that are read regularly (or at least were until they were digitised). Some in rooms nearly as grand as Mike's photos.


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## sammy.se

*PLEEEASE *tell me there will be a secret compartment/door behind a bookcase, which you open by pulling a book down.
I want to turn my living room into a library JUST for that reason


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## Diykick

MikeG. said:


> One of my forthcoming jobs includes designing a private library. This will be in solid timber, and I am curious as to whether or not there are timbers to avoid. Do any timbers (or any finishes) react with books?


I have completed an inexpensive upstairs bookcase installation (pine) and realised that my 300 year old house would not take the weight without distributing the weight between wall and floor. Whilst not answering your question it’s worth including this parameter into bookcase planning. I had to buy huge support brackets and reinforce the floor to distribute the weight!


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## MikeG.

There'll definitely be some structural engineering input into this one. Paper is heavy. Wood is heavy.


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## MikeG.

sammy.se said:


> *PLEEEASE *tell me there will be a secret compartment/door behind a bookcase, which you open by pulling a book down.....



You know if I tell you I'll have to kill you? 

There will be one if the client wants one.......and he'll certainly be offered the opportunity.


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## lurker

I am sure that this is an egg sucking lesson.
But ages ago Steve Maskery posted about a shelf rack system that I had never come across before. It was quite impressive; although as I understand it was commonly used in posh libraries.
I would not mind seeing that post again if anyone can track it down.


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## akirk

I have just had a library built during lockdown - one of our top priorities on moving into our new house... though I will say that our budget was considerably different to the one that MikeG refers to! My library is built from MDF and then painted - houses currently about 3,500 books of which about 1/3 are first editions... Some thoughts to add to the general mix:
- when I owned an archive (glass plate photos c. 100,000) I was given the old archive shelving from Brent Council - they moved archives, the shelving was a composite board made up of a laminated top and bottom and sides which were a softwood - it was considered inert and strong
- friends who are fortunate to have old houses big enough for libraries seem to be generally oak
- as mentioned above - anything of sufficient value should be in acid-free boxes
- biggest issues with books are: temperature / moisture / dust / sunlight - the last is the one which many people forget to deal with, so in my library, one end of the room gets no sunshine at all so the First Editions sit that end - c. 70% of the value of a first edition is in its jacket and the two biggest loss in value come from torn jackets and faded jackets... if books are older and leather bound, then sun fading can damage the book value considerably, so a big priority would be to protect against sunlight. This can be done in several ways - orientation of shelves / books to avoid where the sun reaches... doors which are silk-lined keeps them in the dark, but then you don't have the same visual effect... even changing the room window glass to a UV blocking glass - or adding a film to cut UV ingress can be a good move... then you look at dust - the little curtains shown above are remarkably effective, dust doesn't affect the books, but the act of dusting them can! alternatively, glass doors cuts down on dust... finally temperature and moisture, could lead to looking at how the room is heated and a climate controlled room would be ideal for valuable books unless the building is fortunate enough to already have the right balance - assuming from the above that it is a big country house, then generally they are damp and books go there to die!

Alasdair


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## thick_mike

Are you going to use OSB as a vapour barrier?


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## AJB Temple

In the older libraries I have frequented over the years as an alumnus, sun shades are in common use, so akirk is spot on. Thinking about it, there must also be some humidity control. It is clearly quite an involved subject from a conservation perspective. One very significant issue for a rare / valuable collection must be dealing with fire risk. Sprinkler systems over the shelves are clearly not good, so I wonder if there are air exclusion systems available. I listened to a programme on Radio 4 last night about the US Congress library (200,000 books in the early days) burning down twice. It rose from the ashes both times, but avoidance of fire risk and damage from "protection" systems may be worth building in?


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## MikeG.

We'll certainly be having a conversation about that. There are all sorts of consultants involved with this project, and it's big enough that a sprinkler system would be considered.


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## Jake

Interesting project, lots of competing objectives. If conservation is a concern and wood is a design preference, glass fronts would compound the compromise on the conservation side. Budget no object and conservation a priority but wood essential - maybe deploy that gold standard enamelled steel but as shelf liners under and behind (open fronted).


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## MusicMan

The British Library Reading Rooms are probably the state-of-the-art in shelving and conditions. Definitely both temperature and humidity controlled (55% RH is used for musical instrument museums but not sure about books). And of course, they are internal rooms with no windows. Sunlight is indeed damaging. I believe the shelving is oak and the finish could be Renaissance Wax but I don't know - pretty sure not shellac. In the stacks of course they use (as mentioned above) enamelled steel shelves with a racking system to expose one shelf at a time, but that doesn't have the elegance required for this project!

I do know the Clementinum library also, it is indeed gorgeous. I love the bookcases below supporting the gallery for the upper tier. 

Despite my dislike of glass fronts getting in the way of the books, protection against dust, and against water from a sprinkler system, are good points.

Keith


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## Inspector

I have a reprinted book by George Ellis called Modern Practical Joinery. You likely have the original.  It has a couple pages on library cases with a paragraph on shelves. He said "Shelves intended to receive books with expensive bindings should be covered with cowhide, and two pads or rolls of leather inserted in grooves in the standards, to protect the sides of the end books."

He does have a couple illustrations of the special hinges for glass doors. "Special butts were used called butterfly hinges." Basically a butt hinge shared by two doors. The butt hinge fitting between the ears of a piece screwed into the vertical member. The hinge pin having points to hold strips of wood into the verticals so the profile carries through from hinge to hinge. A continuous bead effect. The arrangement allows the doors to open flat against the next, letting you take the book out. I have never seen them commercially sold anywhere but think they would be relatively easy to make a batch for a job like you are doing. If you do make some up make some extras for me.

Pete


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## Mutley Racers

MikeG. said:


> To be clear, I'm not making this. I'm wearing my architect's hat and designing it (and I haven't even got close to starting it yet). I just know it's on the horizon, and wanted to be informed of the issues before having conversations with the other architects and with the clients. This project is a collaborative one, but I've put my name on the library....I've always wanted to design one. Just as a clue, it is going to be along the lines of this sort of thing, grabbed from the internet:
> 
> View attachment 91446
> 
> 
> .........but maybe with glazed doors along the lines of this one:
> 
> View attachment 91447


Wowzers! Now that us fine! What a job


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## Bristol_Rob

Does the room have to be in a particular style to match the remainder of the building?


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## MikeG.

Bristol_Rob said:


> Does the room have to be in a particular style to match the remainder of the building?



I have to be a bit careful with regards client confidentiality, so I won't be talking about the building. I can say, though, that the library will be very much in keeping with its setting.


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## MikeG.

Inspector said:


> .......He does have a couple illustrations of the special hinges for glass doors. "Special butts were used called butterfly hinges." Basically a butt hinge shared by two doors. The butt hinge fitting between the ears of a piece screwed into the vertical member. The hinge pin having points to hold strips of wood into the verticals so the profile carries through from hinge to hinge. A continuous bead effect. The arrangement allows the doors to open flat against the next, letting you take the book out.......



Don't suppose you could post an image or two, could you? I'm struggling to visualise that from the description.


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## AJB Temple

That Butterfly double sided hinge concept is a great idea Pete. Presumably there is a centre strip at the back of the hinge, rebated into the wood, and the hinge itself is set within a vertical bead. I have never seen that before but it is a very neat idea.


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## Just4Fun

Mike, can you comment on the process? Will you finalise a design and then find someone to make it, or would you allow the person who produces it to have some input into the design and/or choice of materials? No real reason for asking, just curious.


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## Droogs

@MikeG. Chapters XV and XVI of Modern Practical Joinery location 3691 of 6306 Kindle version.

Picture of hinge 3710

hth


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## MikeG.

Just4Fun said:


> Mike, can you comment on the process? Will you finalise a design and then find someone to make it, or would you allow the person who produces it to have some input into the design and/or choice of materials? No real reason for asking, just curious.



The design will be buttoned down to the finest visible detail, with all the mouldings and carvings drawn closely, the timber and finish specified, the ironmongery specified, and so on, before it goes to tender. The winning tenderer will then, as always, get a chance to comment on things and offer suggestions for improvements, but the final say-so will be with the architect. As an architect, I have learnt a lot from this process over the years, because those post-tender comments from experienced guys are like a free master-class for me.


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## Sgian Dubh

MikeG. said:


> Don't suppose you could post an image or two, could you? I'm struggling to visualise that from the description.



A T shaped item where the short leg of the T is attached to a divider's front. A post near top and bottom of the short leg of the T with a centred hole in each at the extremity carrying a pin between with a spike extending beyond the posts. The pin carries two leaves that fold back to back to each other. each leaf is screwed to a door edge, something like below.

On a side note, I use as a standard weight for books that each linear foot of shelf needs to support approximately 25 pound, i.e., ~11 kg per linear 300 mm. Those figures only really apply to standard books such as paperbacks, regular novels, standard dictionaries, typical textbooks, etc. Large format books, and other chunky items of literature grouped together in foot (300 mm) long batches obviously don't fit within the standard weight guidance I use for common book shelving. Slainte.


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## MikeG.

Thanks Richard......nice drawing. So one pair of hinges carries 2 doors, and both can be opened to 90 degrees at the same time. Neat.


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## MusicMan

Just a thought, that if you could locate the library on the north side of the building, one could still have some reasonable window space with much less damage to the books.

The book Inspector refers to looks interesting. Published in 1908, quite a classic time in woodworking, It's on Amazon


Amazon.co.uk


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## MusicMan

MikeG. said:


> Thanks Richard......nice drawing. So one pair of hinges carries 2 doors, and both can be opened to 90 degrees at the same time. Neat.


I think it is also that either door can be opened almost 180 degrees on its own. Even neater,


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## Sgian Dubh

MikeG. said:


> Thanks Richard......nice drawing. So one pair of hinges carries 2 doors, and both can be opened to 90 degrees at the same time. Neat.


Mike, I've only seen something like them once ... in an old library, one with doors funnily enough. I was involved in some repairs to nearby furniture and joinery when I had chance to have a bit of a look. I imagine the same pattern off the shelf is unlikely to be found easily, if at all, but maybe Armac Martin in Brum might be able to help. Otherwise, I guess you may have to get them custom made - not cheap I bet, but if in the end that happens to be what's required and the client is willing to shell out the used beer tokens, well ... it could be on. Slainte.


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## MikeG.

It's useful to have these in the back of the mind, but I can foresee a fluted "column" over every other divider, with doors hinged off each side. This could be with a mini Parliament hinge, again enabling 180 degree opening. This would get around the need for the butterfly-type hinge.


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## AndyT

MusicMan said:


> Just a thought, that if you could locate the library on the north side of the building, one could still have some reasonable window space with much less damage to the books.
> 
> The book Inspector refers to looks interesting. Published in 1908, quite a classic time in woodworking, It's on Amazon
> 
> 
> Amazon.co.uk


There's no need to pay Amazon for a scan of an old book, out of copyright and in the public domain.

Download Ellis here, in the format of your choice. PDF is best as the others will have been automatically produced using OCR.









A Modern Practical Joinery: A Treatise on the Practice of Joiner’s Work by Hand and Machine for the use of Apprentices, Workmen and Builders, containing a full description of Hand-Tools and their Uses, Workshop Practice Fittings and Appliances, the P






archive.org


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## MusicMan

Thanks, Andy! I've downloaded it and it is most interesting. A good section on library shelving on page 182.


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## Inspector

Here you go Mike. I would have posted earlier but a guy has to sleep a little.  Sgian Duba pretty much has it. I think the single bead in line with the hinge is not very intrusive visually compared to other options. Making them wouldn't necessarily be too hard to do especially with CNC machines but even on a manual machine it would be simple. Machining and drilling a bar of brass with a second operation to drill the hinge pin hole is simple enough and turning a replacement pin for a standard solid butt hinge would complete the machining. Then you would have to finish them with the polishing or patination of choice.
Pete


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## PAC1

Whilst nowhere near as good as the hinge in Ellis you could achieve the same result with cranked hinges. You would just offset them in height. whether it could look as neat would need a mock up but it would function.


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## MusicMan

I also note that Ellis recommends thin leather cladding for the shelves and sides where old/rare/valuable books are to go. This neatly evades the issues of contamination by the finish, and would look dead classy.


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## Bm101

MikeG. said:


> We'll certainly be having a conversation about that. There are all sorts of consultants involved with this project, and it's big enough that a sprinkler system would be considered.


Sure you are aware but if money is no object then ...
Have a look at argon based fire suppresion systems and Total Flooding Systems Mike.





Fire Suppression Systems for Server Rooms and Data Centres


Fire suppression systems for server rooms and data centres are essential to the server room itself.



www.firesuppression.co.uk









NotFound







www.dafo.se


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