# The Long Road Back



## Benchwayze (2 May 2007)

Well, I finally went and did it.
I flogged my 'Woodrat'. 

I am on the long road back to being a 'Galoot'. I think that's the term in some places.

I have to 'blame' Good Woodworking's letters column. 
I was musing about Martin Godfrey's letter reference the dovetail. (A contributor had written an article on the possibility that the joint was redundant; another celebrated furniture maker claimed it was a joint that amateurs often use to pose or show-off. (Not his exact words). 

Someone else thought that Martin Godfrey had suggested it was THE only joint to fix two pieces of timber at right-angles. (I think that was a misinterpretation of Martin's letter btw!) :wink: 

Me? I think it's the best joint for quality solid-carcasses and drawer work. Then I reasoned if the joint is so important, better reserve it for that quality work and make the joint with hand-tools too? So I got rid of the Woodrat, and the Leigh, and just kept a Trend ‘cookie-cutter’ jig, for run of the mill drawers. There is a little more space in my shop now! 

All I need now is some advice on the pros and cons of Japanese v traditional Western chisels. Also, is there a genuine, quality dovetail saw on the market today, or should I have my old Spear and Jackson doctored?

Cheers folks ccasion5: 

John


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## MrJay (2 May 2007)

Group hug!!!


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## woodbloke (2 May 2007)

John - big ccasion5: for getting rid of Rat thing and the other jig....they aren't necessary and the accumulated dosh can be much better spent on good hand tools to cut joints.
As regards a decent saw, I suppose that the LN offerings are probably as good as you're going to get straight out the box, though I have seen the odd half respectable saw from MikeW and others :roll: at Philly's place.
I had a set of Jap chisels from Axminster which weren't bad but I couldn't get on with the handles with the lump of steel at the end, awful for doing any hand work as they raised a great weal in the palm of my hand. That said, they could take a fantastic edge. I now use the A2 chisels from LN which I'm far happier with, much more user friendly and capable of holding a decent edge for a long time, I hone mine at 33deg, slightly higher than normal tho' they are supplied with a ground bevel of 30deg - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (2 May 2007)

Some say these are the best http://www.wenzloffandsons.com/saws/index.html

And I'm not going to argue :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Alf (2 May 2007)

If you can only see a Woodrat as a means to cut dovetails, I believe you are indeed better off without it.

Saw - Wenzloff. Although get the S&J sorted too. You can never have too many saws. Or was that clamps? One of those anyway - why take the risk of picking the wrong one?

Chisels - the Japanese still apparently remember how they used to make chisels and why, and still do so, which is in their favour. On the other hand they're a bit different from Western ones and you may find you don't get along with them - I didn't. 

Cheers, Alf


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## MrJay (2 May 2007)

All of which said, your old saw may well be half decent with a bit of TLC, my fave is an unassuming steel backed thing by Buck & Hickman.

Can't tell you much about chisels, but I can tell you for something so rudimentary and ubiquitous it's goshed tricky to find good ones second hand for non-extortionate sums of cash.


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## Woody Alan (2 May 2007)

I have no doubt that Wenzloff saws are good, if you can get your hands on one at the moment. What I can say (from owning one) is that Adrias are spot on. I had both the Adria and Lie Nielsen in my hand and the decision to purchase the Adria was purely *visual *in that the teeth were immaculate with no distortion under the tooth on the blade, wheras the Lie nilesen blade appeared distorted... the distortion was consistent per tooth along the blade, more of a starting to take some of the stress of setting the tooth. 
I suspect the observation is meaningless but the point is I had to make a decision on something so it shows how hair splitting the difference is. I understand some say the Lie Nielsen is a little softer to start the cut. Philly is your man I think he has all three 
To put my observation in perspective I still intend to buy the small Lie Nilesen xcut that Adria don't do.

Alan


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## Benchwayze (2 May 2007)

Thanks Folks,

Alf, I understand your concern! Yes, I do realise the Woodrat, jig can do much more than just cut dovetails! I didn't think I had inferred otherwise! If I did, it was unintentional.

Fact is Alf, I had visions of using it for all sorts of jobs and joints, and the main reason I bought it was to have a 'dedicated-station' for all routing, without too much bending.

However, I never did get to use it and I have other means of cutting most joints, both with hand-tools and machines, so I made a little space. That's the point though. Without the router, the Woodrat won't do anything but decorate a wall I suppose! That's where the space is now! 

You say you couldn't get on with Japanese chisels. I might find difficulty with the steel hoops on the handles. Definitely, I couldn't get on with the Japanese saws. I just can't get used to pull-cutting. 

At the end of the day, our British forebears did some wonderful work using Western tools. So, I sometimes wonder if all the furore around Japanese tools, is down to James Krenov and the obvious fact that Eastern steel is worked much more carefully than is ours.. (I suppose someone will now tell me there are craftspeople here who are just as good.) And within reason, it's usually the worker who's to blame for mistakes not tools. So me old Dad used to say. 

Thanks for the website reference on the saws too. I think I will at least give the chisels a go now I have some cash to get some decent ones. If I can't get on with them, there is always ebay! 

Thanks again for all the advice folks. (Even the group hug!!!) 
Catch you later ccasion5: 
John


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## Philly (2 May 2007)

John
Get hold of this months Good Woodworking - there is a review of four top dovetail saws by Andy King and some other longhaired bloke :wink: 
I've used the L-N, Adria, Pax and Wenzloff (and other cheapy ones too!) Out of the first four there is not too much between them - they all cut way better than the cheap ones. There are minor differences between them, the way they start the cut, speed of cut, etc but they are all great saws. It is down to how you like the handle, etc....
The advantage of a Wenzloff saw is he will make it exactly how you like it - and if you are unsure he will spend time with you helping you decide on the spec of saw that will suit you perfectly. At todays exchange rate Mike's saws look pretty darn cheap, too!
Hope this helps
Philly


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## pam niedermayer (2 May 2007)

I don't know how a quality rip dozuki could be beaten in dovetail land (and I've used western backsaws like Tyzack to good effect). Also perfect is the LN straight handled dovetail saw. These saws are accurate, quick, and incredibly easy to use.

As to chisels, I'll venture that most any laminated chisel will do a superior job. I mostly use Japanese these days, but also have plenty of old western Swans, etc. They all take and keep a great edge. 

I was vacillating 6 or 7 years ago between western and Japanese (was in the process of moving from power tools) when I watched Kingshott's videos. At the end of one of them he whipped out his new Japanese tools. Blew me away, convinced me completely; so today, while I have a fair number of western metal specialty planes, most everything else I use a lot is Japanese.

Pam


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## bugbear (3 May 2007)

Benchwayze":nnkhyubz said:


> Also, is there a genuine, quality dovetail saw on the market today, or should I have my old Spear and Jackson doctored?



At least 3 - LN, Adria and Wenzloff.

But almost any half-decent vintage saw of the right size can be sharpened to cut DTs pretty darn well.







The trick is finding someone who you can trust to sharpen.

BugBear


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## Benchwayze (3 May 2007)

Thanks Pam, 

I have one Swan chisel only, and others of indeterminate make, that I had to make handles for. What I normally look for at auctions etc, are tools that obviously have a 'double-layer’ construction. The old plane irons, exhibit this readily, and as long as the blade has life left in it, I often buy old coffin smoothers, even if the bodies need throwing out. 

I still can't master the pull-cut though, on Japanese saws. The first thing I noticed was that sawdust was pulled out of the cut, obscuring the cutting line, and I was blowing away waste all the time! 

These days, I commonly use a 'Gent's' saw (which is what I think you mean by the straight handled Lie-Nielsen) and I bought a reasonable one and fettled it myself. Still prefer the open handled brass-back saws though, so maybe I might get lucky at an antique-fair!

Thanks for your words Phil and I will get a copy of said GW, and see what has been said. I guess it will be easy to know Philly from Andy. Follicle-wise I am somewhere in between both of you.

Thanks too, to Bugbear. I tend to agree. I did know a good saw-doctor, but he went and retired years ago now, so I shall keep looking!
Thanks again folks.

ccasion5:

John


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## Alf (3 May 2007)

Benchwayze":2bogjwc3 said:


> These days, I commonly use a 'Gent's' saw (which is what I think you mean by the straight handled Lie-Nielsen) and I bought a reasonable one and fettled it myself. Still prefer the open handled brass-back saws though, so maybe I might get lucky at an antique-fair!


Nothing to stop you putting a pistol grip handle on the Gents saw - won't give it a brass back though, it's true.

Cheers, Alf


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## ByronBlack (3 May 2007)

Why is there a lack of saw doctors. It seems to me there that is a large need for one/many and with the lack of affordably good saws around, the second hand market must be massive but for the fact that not many can sharpen these old gems. (Apart from the two excellent ones I bought from ALF that is ;-)

Maybe I should get re-training


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## Anonymous (3 May 2007)

Benchwayze":371nn6n6 said:


> All I need now is some advice on the pros and cons of Japanese v traditional Western chisels. Also, is there a genuine, quality dovetail saw on the market today, or should I have my old Spear and Jackson doctored?
> 
> Cheers folks ccasion5:
> 
> John



I cut a lot of DTs buy hand - most in fact. Some can be seen here

I have found japanese chisels, although very good, are not as good as decent western chisels for DTs due to their (typically) high shoulders.

As for your question about quality DT chisels on the market. Lie Nielsen. I bought mine specifically for DTS as they are superb quality tools with very thin shoulders. My old AIs are very good chisels, but for DT work, the LNs are superb


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

ByronBlack":3o2ux728 said:


> Why is there a lack of saw doctors. It seems to me there that is a large need for one/many and with the lack of affordably good saws around, the second hand market must be massive but for the fact that not many can sharpen these old gems. (Apart from the two excellent ones I bought from ALF that is ;-)
> 
> Maybe I should get re-training



BB - Newt came round to my place the other day and we put a digital vernier on my LN dovetail saw. The displacement of each tooth was about 0.0015" (one and a half thou). Part of the problem is obtaining a saw set that will only push out the tooth from the root this amount. Certainly my Eclipse set will go nowhere near this. I know that when you take a saw into a shop for sharpening all they do is send it off somewhere where some spotty oik will just stick it on a machine regardless of what is required to sharpen and set it :x - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (3 May 2007)

woodbloke":3e1kxz6m said:


> Newt came round to my place the other day and we put a digital vernier on my LN dovetail saw. The displacement of each tooth was about 0.0015" (one and a half thou). Part of the problem is obtaining a saw set that will only push out the tooth from the root this amount. Certainly my Eclipse set will go nowhere near this. I know that when you take a saw into a shop for sharpening all they do is send it off somewhere where some spotty oik will just stick it on a machine regardless of what is required to sharpen and set it :x



Surely Lie Nielsen (and other leading tool manufacturers) are missing a trick here. They make the saws, users keep saying there isn't a suitable saw set on the market to maintain them, yet they don't make one :? 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Paul - agree absolutely. The set recommended By TLN in the blurb that you get with each saw is still available....but they stopped making it in about 1952 or so and was only available in the US (as far as I know) so if you're *very* lucky you might find one in your local second hand tool shop (good job we've got one of those in Salisbury). I did come close a while back and got hold of a very similar model to the one recommended but it wasn't quite what was needed so I took it back. Yes, I think there is definitely a case for TLN or someone making a decent saw set that will enable their saws to be set be the people that own them - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (3 May 2007)

Perhaps a few emails to TLN are needed :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Paul - sorted , copy of epost to TLN - Rob

Tom - In discussion on the UKWorkshop forum there has been some considerable interest in trying to find a decent saw set to sharpen and set your dovetail and other saws. The current sets available in the UK are simply not fine enough to set your saws and the one recommended in your leaflet with each saw is not available over here and I think went out of production shortly after the war...(WW2 that is) Is there any chance that you may be producing a saw set at some time in the future? Have a look at the link below:

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 291#182291

Allot of people this side of the pond have your gear including the saws and are a little frustrated (including myself) that we don't have a way of setting the teeth

Best Regards - Rob Stoakley


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## Alf (3 May 2007)

Rob, you're not really applying set at the _root_ of the tooth are you?

Just out of interest, what would you folks think a reasonable charge for having a saw hand sharpened and set? A saw in good condition that is - ones in a mess are another matter...

Cheers, Alf

Edit: This person isn't frustrated by the saw set she has and is wondering what she's doing wrong - maybe _not_ putting a micrometer to the saws was a good start... :wink:


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## ByronBlack (3 May 2007)

I would pay about £10 for a sharpen up of a reasonably good condition blade and maybe an hourly rate for a real pipper.. not sure if that makes me tight?


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Alf - no, course not, slip of the fingers that's all :roll:  It's just that me and Newt were talking about setting the teeth the other day and the root of the tooth was mentioned but thinking about it, it's only the top part that's set. Still doesn't get away from the unpalatable notion that there ain't a decent saw set commercially available at the mo' which will set teeth this fine (correct me please if I'm mistooken) - Rob


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## Alf (3 May 2007)

Rob, I thought it was probably a slip of the keyboard, but I worry in case someone else thought that's what they ought to be doing.

Personally I've only used an assortment of old sets, but as far as those available now go I believe MikeW recommends the blue Somax. As ever, I gather you have to studiously ignore the tpi settings. Anyway as an Eclipse owner you'll notice it looks just a little bit familiar. 

BB, thanks for your thoughts; hopefully a few more opinions will be forthcoming so I won't comment on tightness or otherwise just yet. :wink:

Cheers, Alf


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## bugbear (3 May 2007)

ByronBlack":3563p56p said:


> Why is there a lack of saw doctors.



Because there isn't a high enough density of customers prepared to pay the rate needed to keep a saw doctor in business :-(

Or, put another way, how much would _you_ be prepared pay for

* routine re-sharpening (AKA touch up)?

* sharpen and set?

* reshape and sharpen and set?

* retooth and sharpen and set?

BugBear


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## pam niedermayer (3 May 2007)

In the absence of an official saw set, why not try hammer (with pointy head) and anvil? Also, have you checked out the wrest style sets that seem to abound in the UK?

Pam


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## ByronBlack (3 May 2007)

bugbear":2z5stoag said:


> ByronBlack":2z5stoag said:
> 
> 
> > Why is there a lack of saw doctors.
> ...





* routine re-sharpening (AKA touch up)? £10

* sharpen and set? £15

* reshape and sharpen and set? £20

* retooth and sharpen and set? £25


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## lurker (3 May 2007)

Byron,

No way could you make a living doing that at that price, remember the flaff you would have with collection & delivery too.

A few years ago I wanted to get my old Dad's (he could sharpen saws but to my eternal regret I did not take an interest until he had died) brass backed saw sharpened.

On spec I went into a saw sharpening place (scruffy round the back affair) where they did industrial blades. An old bloke served me - said he had not done a carpenters saw for donkeys years. Anyway he did it in his lunch break and charged a fiver. Cuts fine

Now want to learn how to do this and am trying to impose myself :shock: :shock: on several forum contributors.


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Alf":2ykyi2f0 said:


> Rob, I thought it was probably a slip of the keyboard, but I worry in case someone else thought that's what they ought to be doing.
> 
> Personally I've only used an assortment of old sets, but as far as those available now go I believe MikeW recommends the blue Somax. As ever, I gather you have to studiously ignore the tpi settings. Anyway as an Eclipse owner you'll notice it looks just a little bit familiar.
> 
> ...



How odd Alf, looks just like my Eclipse in the 'shop, has even got the same tpi settings (4-12) so how do you make it set smaller? FWIW I think I did see somewhere that there is a finer setting version of the same gauge going up to 24 tpi or so? - Rob


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## lurker (3 May 2007)

I have 2 eclipse sets
One has the eclipse name & number stamped inside the handle and the other the name & number are part of the casting.

I assume the former is newer ( Alf ??) 
I think the markings for the sets are different.
(the one I think is the older has more detail & I think finer adjustment)

Not that I know what I'm talking about, you understand!!!


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (3 May 2007)

From memory, I used the (bronze) Eclipse on one 15 tpi dovetail saw at the 12 tpi setting and it turned out just fine. The amount of set appeared the same as that on my LN.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> From memory, I used the (bronze) Eclipse on one 15 tpi dovetail saw at the 12 tpi setting and it turned out just fine. The amount of set appeared the same as that on my LN.
> 
> Regards from Perth
> 
> Derek



Derek - that's the same one as I've got...interesting, will have to have a trial on a gash el cheapo wot I've lurking somewhere - Rob


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## Alf (3 May 2007)

Yep, cast name and number will be older I think. Older Eclipse 77s seem to have finer plungers - later ones are rather more agricultural.

Rob, there's a coarser gold version - I seem to recall Mike saying you had to completely ignore LV's erroneous info now you come to mention it. As their info on saw files doesn't tally with anyone else's either I can only assume saw sharpening is one area where they're all at sea.

Cheers, Alf


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Alf":1n7oc3qn said:


> Yep, cast name and number will be older I think. Older Eclipse 77s seem to have finer plungers - later ones are rather more agricultural.
> 
> Rob, there's a coarser gold version - I seem to recall Mike saying you had to completely ignore LV's erroneous info now you come to mention it. As their info on saw files doesn't tally with anyone else's either I can only assume saw sharpening is one area where they're all at sea.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



I assume then Alf that the blue one in the link is the finer set recommended by MikeW, but not available in the UK.
My Eclipse has the name cast into the inside of the handle (I assume it's an old one 'cos I bought it in the '70's) but the plunger looks to be about 2mm wide which still seems to be a bit agricultural to me :? - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (3 May 2007)

Seems to me that there would also be a good market if someone with enough expertise could produce "The Ultimate Saw Maintenance DVD". 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Paul Chapman":1m1tgqhj said:


> Seems to me that there would also be a good market if someone with enough expertise could produce "The Ultimate Saw Maintenance DVD".
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Paul - wonder who could do one of those :-k the person that comes to mind has recently done a really *excellent* little production on U-tube about sharpening plane blades with a hand grinder. Maybe if we could entice Speilberg over we could have ............Saws (cue the music) :lol: - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (3 May 2007)

woodbloke":25xt8p7j said:


> (cue the music) :lol:



Don't you mean "cue the parrots"? :lol: :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## ByronBlack (3 May 2007)

Or maybe run a short 1 day course.. works well for Luckhurst and Charlesworth!


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## Benchwayze (3 May 2007)

Hi Alf,

I can't get the 'quote' thing to work:
So, Alf said:

Nothing to stop you putting a pistol grip handle on the Gents saw - won't give it a brass back though, it's true.

Cheers, Alf.

Okay Alf,

That's true, except my Gents saws do have brass backs. 
I could fit 'pistol-grip' handles. I have actually considered this, but how would I drill through the saw blade (tool-steel) to accommodate the fixing nuts/bolts, without softening the metal? Surely I would have to do this, which would ruin the saw? Unless things have developed so much that I can now obtain drill bits to do this without softening the metal. In which case I plead my failure to keep up to date. (John) 

I like the 'hound's tooth dovetails Byron. Excellent work. I was always taught that these were 'cogged' or 'decorative' dovetails. But what's in a name? Nice going. It illustrates the point though. Sometimes, dovetails can be used as a 'feature', as well as a necessity. (No criticism intended .) 

John


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## Benchwayze (3 May 2007)

Wow!

What have I started....
From long ago, in the joiners' shop where I was employed, it was common practice to take as much set as possible OFF a dovetail saw. It made the saw difficult to control, and harder to produce a cut, but it produced a much finer kerf. But that was back in the days of steel-back Tyzak, Buck and Ryan, or Spear and Jackson saws!

I need something better if I am to satisfy my own standards. Hence my enquiry!


I am off to top that old saw and start again; price be blowed!

Thanks folks.

John


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## Alf (3 May 2007)

Benchwayze":17g9oi9q said:


> That's true, except my Gents saws do have brass backs.


Better and better - done deal  



Benchwayze":17g9oi9q said:


> I could fit 'pistol-grip' handles. I have actually considered this, but how would I drill through the saw blade (tool-steel) to accommodate the fixing nuts/bolts, without softening the metal? Surely I would have to do this, which would ruin the saw? Unless things have developed so much that I can now obtain drill bits to do this without softening the metal. In which case I plead my failure to keep up to date.


As it happens... :wink: After a lot of experimenting with the cheap methods I finally gave in and use a cobalt bit. They're not too outrageously expensive these days and get the job done in a brace of shakes. Recommended. Alternatives are to heat the area you want to drill very locally by application of friction with the aid of a power drill and suitable blunt instrument to the spot - or punch, grind off the dimple and adjust the hole to fit with needle file. Both these take time but they do work.

Only problem is once you've done it on one it can get to be a bit addictive...





Cheers, Alf


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## woodbloke (3 May 2007)

Have just had this reply from TLN:

Hi Rob,

Tom doesn't have any plans at the moment to produce a saw set but we do 
get requests from our customers from time to time so you never know.

Thank you for your feedback - I'll pass this along to Tom.

-Michelle

Rob......whose living in hope


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## Paul Chapman (3 May 2007)

Thanks Rob. Good to know that others have asked as well - that demonstrates that there is a general demand and it's not just us.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Anonymous (3 May 2007)

Benchwayze":260f6i87 said:


> I like the 'hound's tooth dovetails *Byron.*



???????

I thought I posted about those - and cut them :roll: :lol: :lol:
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=182277#182277



As far as i am concerned, dovetails are best because of their beauty, and i prefer HTs


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## ByronBlack (4 May 2007)

Tony - that was me that cut the houndstooth dovetails, your just in a dream and feeling delusional - best be off to the clinic with you, oh and I can 'look after your tools' while you get treatment


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## Anonymous (4 May 2007)

ByronBlack":1skvgo4r said:


> Tony - that was me that cut the houndstooth dovetails, your just in a dream and feeling delusional - best be off to the clinic with you, oh and I can 'look after your tools' while you get treatment



Thanks for clearing that up mate  - I'll start packing the tools now :wink: :roll:


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## Benchwayze (4 May 2007)

Tony":ioooyd1q said:


> Benchwayze":ioooyd1q said:
> 
> 
> > I like the 'hound's tooth dovetails *Byron.*
> ...



Sorry Tony... Tried to answer too many posts at once! 

Embarrassed somewhere in the Midlands!


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## bugbear (4 May 2007)

pam niedermayer":32tkjc59 said:


> In the absence of an official saw set, why not try hammer (with pointy head) and anvil?



Even the old books, never shy of recommending techniques that "require a little practice" mention that it is extremely difficult to get an even set using this technique.

They also emphasize that an even set is very important!

BugBear


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## bugbear (4 May 2007)

Paul Chapman":25tqxnm9 said:


> Seems to me that there would also be a good market if someone with enough expertise could produce "The Ultimate Saw Maintenance DVD".



There's this...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7355

BugBear


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## pam niedermayer (4 May 2007)

bugbear":3ch0a8dv said:


> pam niedermayer":3ch0a8dv said:
> 
> 
> > In the absence of an official saw set, why not try hammer (with pointy head) and anvil?
> ...



There are little integrated hammer and anvil tools, in both Europe and Japan, that make this much easier. The anvil is mostly flat with just a hint of a curve on the hammer side and you run the saw teeth along this curve as you punch with the hammer. I haven't done it myself, but there are expert Japanese saw tuners/sharpeners who do.

However, I think the best saw sets are those wrest style that I see for sale in the UK and France all the time. If I didn't have to pay the huge postage, I'd buy a couple or three, they look like a very cool way to adjust the set. What's more, they should be easy enough to make. I've got a couple of great photos, but alas, can't upload them here.

Pam


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## Anonymous (4 May 2007)

Hi Pam

Would it be fair to say that you have a preference for Japanese tools? 

I ask as I too quite like them and have used Japanese chisels and saws for several years until I realised that good quality European style tools work far better for me


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## bugbear (4 May 2007)

pam niedermayer":ool4a6yd said:


> I've got a couple of great photos, but alas, can't upload them here.
> 
> Pam



Just upload to photobucket and deep link.

BugBear (who doesn't know how photobucket stay in business)


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## pam niedermayer (4 May 2007)

Tony":1u7eogmz said:


> Hi Pam
> 
> Would it be fair to say that you have a preference for Japanese tools? ...



I'd say that I'm about half and half Japanese and Western tools; but I have almost no metal bench planes.

Pam


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## pam niedermayer (4 May 2007)

bugbear":1fp3y1ey said:


> Just upload to photobucket and deep link.
> 
> BugBear (who doesn't know how photobucket stay in business)



Hmmm, it's the ads that do it for them, to say nothing of hiding your stuff so you have to look at all of them.  Thanks, BB


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## Benchwayze (5 May 2007)

Now I have committed to more hand-tool work, I will try the Japanese dovetail chisels. I have a pull-cut saw, but I might re-handle that, as Alf advises and use it in addition to a new Western saw, until I make a final choice. 

Philly recommended the GW test and I am going with the 'Pax'. All the saw handles in the GW test had a very obvious 'machine-cut' look and I fancy making my own handle. Also, rosewood and walnut are my first choices for totes and saw-handles etc. Just a style thing I suppose, but there were usually 'fit for purpose' reasons why the old workers made the choices they did. And after all, 'pistol-grip' does suggest 'walnut'. 

Maybe Pax will supply the saw without handle? I can but try, and it would force me to actually do the job.

I scoured eBay for some older, Western steel-bodied planes, and I am busy fettling. (The wooden planes remind me of school and a certain Woodwork teacher and teardrops spoil the work! Ahhhh! )

So except for a rounded-sole plane and a few moulding planes I go for steel, and now I am all 'set'.

Thanks for all the advice friends. I’m hoping to put some new work on post soon, now I know how (Thanks Alf.) and also meet a few people in September too.

Happy Wooding folks.
John ccasion5:


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