# Thoughts for my first wood project: side table design



## Dr Al (16 Jul 2020)

Subject: Thoughts for my first wood project: side table design

As I mentioned in my introduction post, I've done odd bits of woodwork in the past, but most of it has involved plywood or MDF and the only "real wood" thing I've made was a pine planter about 13 years ago. I've now managed to squeeze a tiny amount of room into the garage for woodwork and, having only used it so far for practising planing, sawing and other such things, I want to embark on my first "proper" project.

One of the limitations I have is that I don't have much space in the house or garage for whatever I make, so that limits the options a bit. What seems like a good option for the first project is to replace a small side table that lives in the lounge and holds a wooden boat I've been making (very occasionally) for the last couple of decades! The current one is a cheap and nasty unfinished pine thing that came from Ikea (I think). It'll be nice to have something better in its place.

I've started having a go at a design for the table and was hoping some of the more experienced forum members could critique my design before I start cutting wood! Here's a picture of what I have in mind (more pictures from other angles later on):







For a sense of scale, the top is 420 × 376 × 19 mm and it's currently 420 mm tall, although I might yet tweak the height. Most of the dimensions have been picked on the basis of the PAR oak I already have.

Does the design look sensible? Is there anything I need to be aware of, especially related to expansion/contraction of the wood in the top and the shelf? I know this is something I need to worry about, but I don't know whether this design will work or not or what to do about it if not.

Also, any particular recommendations for joinery? I'd been thinking of biscuits (with router-cut holes) or dowels or maybe just glue for joining the top slats together. Do any of them sound sensible? I hadn't got as far as thinking about the joints for the rest of the table, so am very open to suggestions!

Finally (for now): finishes. I was thinking a few coats of boiled linseed oil and a coat or maybe two of paste wax (linseed oil / beeswax mix). Does that sound sensible or should I be looking at something else?

Thanks!

More pictures:


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## Dr Al (16 Jul 2020)

Alternative shelf construction (three slats rather than four):


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## billw (16 Jul 2020)

The three slats on the shelf looks infinitely better than four to my relatively untrained eye.

It's a nice simple design and for your first piece it should be a good lesson.


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## Myfordman (16 Jul 2020)

Trying to make rails flush with the legs can easily go wrong and shout "error" to anyone looking. set them in by 3-4mm known as a reveal and the eye will be far more tolerant of small errors.
The top is a variant of breadboard ends. look at some youtube videos for the way to do selective gluing to be more tolerant of movement.
hth


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## Dr Al (16 Jul 2020)

Myfordman":1mhy1d0z said:


> Trying to make rails flush with the legs can easily go wrong and shout "error" to anyone looking. set them in by 3-4mm known as a reveal and the eye will be far more tolerant of small errors.
> The top is a variant of breadboard ends. look at some youtube videos for the way to do selective gluing to be more tolerant of movement.
> hth



Thanks, that's really useful. I'll have a look at breadboard ends & selective gluing. I've updated the model with a 4 mm rail gap (hopefully visible in this pictutre):


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## AndyT (16 Jul 2020)

I agree that it looks better with three equal slats and the stretchers set back a bit.

Thinking about how the slats are supported on the lower rails, your design neatly covers up the end grain. Presumably you are planning to cut rebates along the upper edges of the rails for the slats to sit in? If so, remember to think about the detail of the tenons on the ends of the slats. 

One option would be to use barefaced tenons, half the thickness of the rails, with a rebate on the inner half, as deep as the slat thickness. Probably what you are already planning!


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## Dr Al (16 Jul 2020)

AndyT":1tnljg5m said:


> I agree that it looks better with three equal slats and the stretchers set back a bit.
> 
> Thinking about how the slats are supported on the lower rails, your design neatly covers up the end grain. Presumably you are planning to cut rebates along the upper edges of the rails for the slats to sit in? If so, remember to think about the detail of the tenons on the ends of the slats.



Yes, it was my plan to rebate the upper edges of the lower rails. I hadn't got as far as thinking about how the rails were going to fit into the legs: I'll have to spend some time thinking about that! Thanks for the advice.



AndyT":1tnljg5m said:


> One option would be to use barefaced tenons, half the thickness of the rails, with a rebate on the inner half, as deep as the slat thickness. Probably what you are already planning!



Certainly wasn't what I was planning, but not because it's a bad idea, just because (a) I hadn't thought about it yet and (b) I'd never heard of barefaced tenons! Looks like a promising approach though. I might have to practice cutting a few tenons first: I haven't tried that yet!


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## AndyT (16 Jul 2020)

I just realised that barefaced tenons would need more of a set-back than 4mm. Might work if centred on the legs. It depends on the sizes - it's the sort of thing where a proper drawing beforehand, like you are doing, is really useful, and can save wood later on.


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## TheTiddles (20 Jul 2020)

Depends on the look you’re going for, to me it looks heavy (this may be intentional) like a machinery stand or a step. If you wanted to lighten it, you could make the legs square and thin down the shelf support.

Personal preferential but I think tables should look light and chairs should look solid

Aidan


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## MikeG. (20 Jul 2020)

Yep, I'm with Aidan. This looks like a really nice project, but the design is heavy. The legs should be slimmer, and the rails could be slimmer too. If you are going to do "chunky", then it really has to be very chunky, and have straight legs....and that really only suits something bigger than this. Personally, I'd also overhang the lower shelf, for no reason other than aesthetics. Therefore, it's just an opinion, and you may prefer it as it is.

This is a testing but perfectly do-able first project. I wish you well with it, and I hope you'll post a WIP with lots of photos as you take it on.


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## Dr Al (20 Jul 2020)

TheTiddles":37zqhwof said:


> Depends on the look you’re going for, to me it looks heavy (this may be intentional) like a machinery stand or a step. If you wanted to lighten it, you could make the legs square and thin down the shelf support.
> 
> Personal preferential but I think tables should look light and chairs should look solid
> 
> Aidan





MikeG.":37zqhwof said:


> Yep, I'm with Aidan. This looks like a really nice project, but the design is heavy. The legs should be slimmer, and the rails could be slimmer too. If you are going to do "chunky", then it really has to be very chunky, and have straight legs....and that really only suits something bigger than this. Personally, I'd also overhang the lower shelf, for no reason other than aesthetics. Therefore, it's just an opinion, and you may prefer it as it is.
> 
> This is a testing but perfectly do-able first project. I wish you well with it, and I hope you'll post a WIP with lots of photos as you take it on.



Thanks for the feedback both - that's really useful.

I'd picked the dimensions entirely based on what wood I had available. I bought a hobby pack from British Hardwoods which had a lot of 19 mm material and I also got some 19 × 94 mm and some 43 × 69 mm (not for any good reason, it just seemed like a reasonable selection to start with.

The legs were chosen as 43 × 69 mm, but thinking about it now, it would be quite straightforward to rip these down to 43 × 43 mm. I'm trying to avoid reducing the 19 mm dimensions of the various planks as it may not be that easy to rip them to size: I don't have a thicknesser and don't have enough faith in my hand-planing skills to get the thickness consistent over long-ish lengths.

Here's another version with 43 mm square legs (tapered in two sides at the bottom) and a rebate drawn in for the shelf:






Does that look better or do you think it needs thinning more?

When you say "the rails could be slimmer", do you mean reducing the thickness or the height? They're currently 19 × 44 mm (again just because that's one of the sizes of material I've got), 44 mm in the "Z" axis of the picture. Do you mean reducing the 44 mm or the 19 mm?

I've been thinking a bit more about how everything joins together as well. I'd imagined the shelf at the bottom sitting in a rebate in the rails. Do I need to worry about expansion of the shelf planks if it's done like this?

Also, I'd envisaged attaching the top with some dowels in two of the rails. Since two of the rails are underneath the "breadboard ends", the grain direction of the rail will be the same as the grain direction of the top, so I think this will be okay. Am I missing anything?











I've started the build; so far I've made the top (with the breadboard ends) and also glued three planks together to form the shelf (but not cut them to size yet). It took me a lot of goes of planing (with a #5) the sides of the planks to get a flush joint between them (partly not helped by deliberately making it more of a challenge for myself and doing the planks one at a time rather than pairing them up). It was easier on the shelf than on the top; I'm hoping that was because I was getting better with more practice!

I'll post some photos of progress in a separate post.


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## Dr Al (20 Jul 2020)

Over the weekend I started making the two "panels": the table top and the shelf. I figured that the overall size of the table wasn't likely to change and hence those two could be made now, even if the rest of the design changes considerably.

I started by cutting the various planks a bit longer than necessary and then clamped each one in the vice and had a *lot* of practice running a #5 plane over the edge to try to get it at 90° to the face and straight all the way along. I'm happy to say I got there in the end (and was much quicker on the shelf, so *maybe* I'm improving???

I decided to reinforce the joints with biscuits (I have a biscuit cutter for my small router). I suspected it was unnecessary (and having seen how strong the glue joint was on the 6 mm wide sliver I cut off to square up the end after the glue had dried, I'm pretty sure it was unnecessary!), but I figured it couldn't hurt.






After cutting the biscuit holes with the router, I used a 6 mm chisel to lightly chamfer the edges of the cut marks, just in case there was any "burr" (or whatever the wood equivalent is called) that might get in the way of the joint closing nicely.






I then glued the four main panels together and left them overnight to dry.






The next morning, I trimmed the ends square to one side and parallel to each other. I then put a 6 mm cutter in my big router (in my home-made router table) and cut an 8 mm deep groove in the middle of two of the end panels (gradually increasing the depth of cut and then repeating the last cut with the board the other way round to make sure the groove was central).

I then replaced the cutter with a 12 mm one and used it to cut an 8 mm wide rebate in the end grain of the table top. It took a few goes to gradually sneak up on the correct dimension to give a good fit in the slot in the end pieces, but I'd rather take it slowly than go too far. I'd been a bit too cautious on the 8 mm depth of the groove, so ended up tweaking it by hand with a 6 mm chisel.

Trial fit...











One day I'd like to get myself a plough plane and a rebate plane, but I might get in trouble if I get any more tools in the immediate future!

Having watched a few youtube videos on the subject, it seemed like I could get away with joining the "breadboard ends" if I apply glue just in the middle third of the joint, so that's what I've done:






and now it's all clamped up:






I've also biscuited, glued and clamped the three shelf pieces, but I didn't bother taking any photos of that as it's basically the same as how I started doing the table top.

Next job is to use some offcuts to practice making some mortise and tenon joints as that's what I'm currently expecting to use to join the rails to the legs and I've never done one before! Hopefully my chiselling skills will be up to scratch!


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## TheTiddles (20 Jul 2020)

Are the breadboards just held with glue in the middle, or are you pinning them too? You probably want to hold them tight to the board ends and drive the expansion/contraction to the other side or you might get a slight curve and a gap that will appear much larger than it actually is (that’s why I fake breadboards onto veneered panels)

I think the square legs look much better, I agree that reducing the 19mm thickness should be avoided, there’s an easy work around for this, if you think the top looks heavy you can add an unequal chamfer all around, makes a heavy top look much lighter for very little work, you can also do it later on when you’re certain it’s right (or not).

If you reduced the depth of the shelf rails that would further lighten how it sits (they look plenty strong enough for a side table) and/or move them up and increase the length of the taper on the legs making them more dainty.

You’re probably getting an idea of how many tweaks you can make to a piece to adjust its aesthetics... which is why it takes me so long to decide on a design, it has to ferment for months before I’m happy

Looks like it’s going nicely though.

Aidan


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## TheTiddles (20 Jul 2020)

You could also not taper the inside faces of the legs and do the outsides all the way down, not sure how that would look but you should be able to make the whole thing, do a dry fit and see what works then take it apart to implement, I often sit a piece in situ and stare at it for quite a while before I decide, as my original plan occasionally has improvement opportunities...


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## Dr Al (20 Jul 2020)

TheTiddles":1qv6cpix said:


> Are the breadboards just held with glue in the middle, or are you pinning them too? You probably want to hold them tight to the board ends and drive the expansion/contraction to the other side or you might get a slight curve and a gap that will appear much larger than it actually is (that’s why I fake breadboards onto veneered panels)



At the moment, they're just held with glue in the middle (well, at the moment, they're also held with lots of clamps, but that's beside the point!). I'm not sure what you mean by "pinning them". The videos I watched (which might not have been good ones, of course) showed breadboard ends just being held with glue in the middle so that the outsides could move as the middle pieces of wood expand/contract.

Could you explain what you mean? I'm hoping I haven't done it wrong already: I haven't got much spare wood!



TheTiddles":1qv6cpix said:


> I think the square legs look much better, I agree that reducing the 19mm thickness should be avoided, there’s an easy work around for this, if you think the top looks heavy you can add an unequal chamfer all around, makes a heavy top look much lighter for very little work, you can also do it later on when you’re certain it’s right (or not).



Good thought, thanks.



TheTiddles":1qv6cpix said:


> If you reduced the depth of the shelf rails that would further lighten how it sits (they look plenty strong enough for a side table) and/or move them up and increase the length of the taper on the legs making them more dainty.
> 
> You’re probably getting an idea of how many tweaks you can make to a piece to adjust its aesthetics... which is why it takes me so long to decide on a design, it has to ferment for months before I’m happy



I'll keep playing with the CAD model and see what I think of each version. I don't want to move the rails too far up as it'll reduce the height of stuff that can go on the shelf. I probably shouldn't be worrying about that, but the grotty Ikea table that this will replace currently has quite a few things on the shelf!

Thanks again for the advice: much appreciated.


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## Dr Al (20 Jul 2020)

For completeness, a few more photos...

The table top after having been removed from the clamps:






and the underside, which needs a bit of glue scraping off:






Here's what the shelf looked like in its clamps:






I made a bit of a mistake here. I clamped it in the same way I clamped the table top: with long clamps along the edge and some speed clamps in the middle to make sure it didn't bend upwards under the force of the edge clamps. That worked nicely on the table top (which was clamped in some t-bar sash clamps, which have a flat top), but didn't work as well on the shelf, which was clamped using some pipe clamps. Here's the underside of the shelf:






Close-up:






Entirely predictable, but it didn't occur to me (too used to working with metal rather than wood!). I'll try to plane it out, but it's on the underside of the bottom shelf, so worst case I can just put it down to experience and take comfort in the fact no-one will ever see it!

The top face of the shelf looks fine:


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## John15 (20 Jul 2020)

Al, try a hot iron and a wet cloth to remove most of the long dent.

John


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## TheTiddles (20 Jul 2020)

He’s right, that will probably steam out, don’t worry!


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## MikeG. (20 Jul 2020)

I think I see just a hint of sapwood here and there. Try not to use the pale stuff at the edge of boards, as it is soft and prone to rot and insect attack.


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## TheTiddles (20 Jul 2020)

I’ve just re-read your notes on attaching the top with dowels... I wouldn’t. Whilst you have minimised then shrinkage risk, it’s still there and as you’re doing a decent job of it, go the whole way and use buttons, if you have the biscuit cutter bit you can cut a couple of slots in the rails, make some buttons and you’re done, way better than just sitting it on dowels and another important furniture design/make feature ticked off

Aidan


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## Dr Al (21 Jul 2020)

TheTiddles":12ngm21o said:


> I’ve just re-read your notes on attaching the top with dowels... I wouldn’t. Whilst you have minimised then shrinkage risk, it’s still there and as you’re doing a decent job of it, go the whole way and use buttons, if you have the biscuit cutter bit you can cut a couple of slots in the rails, make some buttons and you’re done, way better than just sitting it on dowels and another important furniture design/make feature ticked off
> 
> Aidan



Thanks for the advice. I hadn't even heard of buttons (although having googled them, I've seen the sort of thing before: just didn't know the name). That sounds like a good plan, although I might have a go at cutting individual slots by hand just for the practice. I'll see what I feel like when I get to that stage!

Have you any thoughts about the shelf? If I mount it in a rebate in the lower rail, is there a risk it'll expand and cause a problem? For that matter, if I don't mount it in a rebate, is there a risk that the bit that sticks out between the legs will expand and cause a problem?

Or am I just overthinking this and I should just mount it in a rebate as in the pictures earlier and attach it with buttons?


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## Dr Al (21 Jul 2020)

John15":2ns2kb5k said:


> Al, try a hot iron and a wet cloth to remove most of the long dent.
> 
> John



Intriguing....

I'll try that later today or maybe tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.


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## MikeG. (21 Jul 2020)

Dr Al":14bwq7hq said:


> .........Have you any thoughts about the shelf? If I mount it in a rebate in the lower rail, is there a risk it'll expand and cause a problem? For that matter, if I don't mount it in a rebate, is there a risk that the bit that sticks out between the legs will expand and cause a problem?
> 
> Or am I just overthinking this and I should just mount it in a rebate as in the pictures earlier and attach it with buttons?



I think mounting it in a rebate is a poor idea, and will led to problems as the wood moves. It also doesn't look great, and these are good reasons that you don't see shelves done this way. Mount the lower shelf in the same way as the top, on slimmer rails than you propose, and use buttons. Build in a gap around the legs, or just accept that they'll be pushed out of alignment a little if the shelf expands. I said all this previously, I think.


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## TheTiddles (21 Jul 2020)

Like Mike says, I think it can work but you will need to leave a shadow gap all round, not much, just a couple of mm, however you need to get that dead on to look right, so sneak up on it with care, whether inset or overlaid, you still need that fit just perfect. With a solid shelf and your design I can’t see another way, however if you used slats instead of solid that problem vanishes and it catches less dust.

Aidan


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## Dr Al (21 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":zgucvyzq said:


> I think mounting it in a rebate is a poor idea, and will led to problems as the wood moves. It also doesn't look great, and these are good reasons that you don't see shelves done this way. Mount the lower shelf in the same way as the top, on slimmer rails than you propose, and use buttons. Build in a gap around the legs, or just accept that they'll be pushed out of alignment a little if the shelf expands. I said all this previously, I think.





TheTiddles":zgucvyzq said:


> Like Mike says, I think it can work but you will need to leave a shadow gap all round, not much, just a couple of mm, however you need to get that dead on to look right, so sneak up on it with care, whether inset or overlaid, you still need that fit just perfect. With a solid shelf and your design I can’t see another way, however if you used slats instead of solid that problem vanishes and it catches less dust.
> 
> Aidan



Thanks for the feedback both. I've played around with the design a bit more, although I'm still not happy with the shelf at the moment.

I've reduced the rails from 19 × 44 mm to 19 × 30 mm; I'm not sure I'd want to make them any shallower than that. Here it is with the shelf hidden:







I've also modelled the tenons (8 mm by 20 mm at the moment):






and added buttons to the table top:






The buttons are spaced a couple of millimetres from the rails to allow in-out movement and the slots are four millimetres wider than the buttons to allow lateral movement.

I then had a go at playing with other shelf designs. I'd already ditched the rebate, so it was just a case of trying different shelf layouts (all of this assumes I'll consign the one I've already made to the future-projects pile!).

This is what it would look like with 80 mm wide slats with a 2 mm gap between each slat and the same between the slats and the legs:






It just looks a bit weird to me at the moment, but I'm not sure why! I tried having the slats either flush with the legs or the rails, but it looked a lot worse there. I also tried extending it out to the extent of the table top, but that looked *really* weird!

I don't think it makes a massive difference to the appearance (at least in CAD space) whether the slats have a gap or not, it's just the overall shape that doesn't seem quite right to me.

I might try moving the rails in towards the inner edge of the legs and then making the shelf flush with the legs, but I'm very open to other suggestions!

Thanks again


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## MikeG. (21 Jul 2020)

I would move the rails inboard, I think, and have the shelf overhang them, but still finish inside the outer line of the legs. You can lose one button from each rail and still have too many!


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## Dr Al (21 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":1jm7u6az said:


> I would move the rails inboard, I think, and have the shelf overhang them, but still finish inside the outer line of the legs. You can lose one button from each rail and still have too many!



Something like this?






I've reduced it down to two buttons per edge. I can always tweak it down further (e.g. to two buttons on the longer edges and one on the shorter edges) when I actually make it.


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## MikeG. (21 Jul 2020)

Yeah, that looks better.

I think the idea of slats for the bottom shelf is to have proper gaps......20mm or something. Two mm looks like you've just made a mistake. Narrow slats (say 40/ 45mm) and gaps of 15 or 20mm and the appearance would be very different. I'm not sure I agree with the idea, but I certainly like slats more than a 2mm gap.

The buttons....I would do 2 on the long edges and one in the middle of the short. Frankly, it doesn't make a jot of difference. If you want to put 20 in for practise it would be fine.


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## TheTiddles (21 Jul 2020)

See, looks much lighter now! The shelf does look heavy though, compare the with and without pictures. What are you intending to use it for? If it’s purely cosmetic, then it’s worth a chunk of effort to refine. If it’s just for the paper, I think slats would look better and be light, if it’s for a cat, just shoot the cat.

Aidan


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## MikeG. (21 Jul 2020)

Have you tried drawing the top with the boards running the other way? It looks a little odd with the boards being parallel to the short edge, and the breadboard ends being on the long edges.



TheTiddles":3lw35dah said:


> ......... if it’s for a cat, just shoot the cat........



:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>


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## Dr Al (21 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":3l6nykd1 said:


> Yeah, that looks better.
> 
> I think the idea of slats for the bottom shelf is to have proper gaps......20mm or something. Two mm looks like you've just made a mistake. Narrow slats (say 40/ 45mm) and gaps of 15 or 20mm and the appearance would be very different. I'm not sure I agree with the idea, but I certainly like slats more than a 2mm gap.



I see what you mean about it looking like I made a mistake. I drew it up with narrower slats and bigger gaps and it looked a bit odd to me - more like a piece of garden furniture than a side table. I think I'll just close up the gaps and go with a solid panel.








TheTiddles":3l6nykd1 said:


> See, looks much lighter now! The shelf does look heavy though, compare the with and without pictures. What are you intending to use it for? If it’s purely cosmetic, then it’s worth a chunk of effort to refine. If it’s just for the paper, I think slats would look better and be light, if it’s for a cat, just shoot the cat.
> 
> Aidan



I'm not really sure what to do about the shelf to be honest. It's small enough I could put it on my router jig and thin the whole thing down a bit (to 10 mm maybe). That would be really tedious though...








MikeG.":3l6nykd1 said:


> Have you tried drawing the top with the boards running the other way? It looks a little odd with the boards being parallel to the short edge, and the breadboard ends being on the long edges.



I haven't, but having already made the top, I don't think I want to change it now :?


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## TheTiddles (22 Jul 2020)

Do you even need the shelf?

You have the opportunity to make it with just the rails then add a shelf or slats later on when after you’ve done a dry assembly and sat it in place, you decide how to do it.

Aidan


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## Dr Al (24 Jul 2020)

I think I probably do want a shelf, but for now I think I'll take your advice and put off the decision.

Made a little more progress this afternoon. I trimmed all the legs down to 40 × 40 mm and about 30 mm too long. I then marked out where all the mortises will go:






After marking up with pencil, I went round with a marking gauge and turned the lines into cuts. I didn't bother taking a photo after that as it looked much the same.

I then started cutting my first mortise! I'd done a couple of practice goes on a bit of scrap so not strictly my first one, but the first one that it actually mattered where it went.

I started by cutting it with a 6 mm mortise chisel (the slots were intended to be 8 mm wide, 20 mm long and 15 mm deep, but more on that later...)






I then got the 8 mm mortise chisel out and went to the line. I was doing very well (in my opinion based on almost zero experience) and then on one of the very last cuts I pushed the chisel the wrong way and rounded over one of the edges.






I don't think it matters as it'll be completely hidden, it just annoyed me!

It was as I put the leg in the vice to cut the second mortise that I realised a potential issue. When I'd originally started the design, the rails were on the outside edge of the inner faces of the legs. There was loads of clearance under the 15 mm deep mortises. During the conversations above, I moved the rails closer to the inside edge and now there isn't. I stupidly hadn't checked this in the model!






As a result the two mortises join in the middle. I can reduce the length of the tenons so they don't clash; that's easily done. Hopefully it won't be a problem that the holes meet in the middle: I don't really want to discard all the legs (which have cut lines for the all the mortises).

Anyway, for now I'm carrying on regardless and I think I did a bit better on the second mortise (although it was actually a bit easier as it was open at the bottom).






All good experience anyway and that was a large part of the point of this project!


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2020)

Meeting in the middle is no big deal, often inevitable if maximising tenon length in small sections. You can mitre the ends or cut notches so one fits over the other, if you don't want to just shorten them.


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## Dr Al (24 Jul 2020)

All the mortises in the legs are done. I guess it's tenons next...


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## TheTiddles (24 Jul 2020)

Chamfer the tenon ends, it’s quite normal, looking good


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## Dr Al (26 Jul 2020)

A bit more progress today. I cut all the tenons and tweaked them down to size with a chisel. I'm sure if I was better at such things I could try to cut them immediately to the right size, but I was more comfortable with the idea of paring them gradually down to be a good tight fit (and I'm doing this for fun and enjoy chisel-paring so the extra time is really not an issue).






I then chamfered all of the tenons so that they will fit together in the legs:






and did my first trial fit. The legs are still too long in this photo: I didn't want to cut the mortices with so little material above the slot, so I cut them too long, cut the mortices and they could then be trimmed down later.






I screwed a bit of wood to my cross-cut sled to help cut the tapers on two sides of each leg and cut them roughly to shape.






I then cut the legs to length and then planed the tapers to give a nicer finish than the saw leaves.






Next job is to cut the slots for the buttons I think.


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## Dr Al (26 Jul 2020)

Slots for buttons chiselled out:






and buttons made:






The buttons got a bit burnt from me pushing them through the table saw a bit too slowly, so they need a bit of a clean-up of the top face and probably a slight chamfer all round.

It's starting to feel like it's coming together!

I think the next job (for another day) is to trim the top to size and likewise the shelf (I'm guessing a 2 mm gap around the legs is appropriate for expansion, but if anyone thinks differently, please do say!). Then I'll probably do another trial fit and see what it looks like with and without the shelf fitted and what I think it'll look like with a half-thickness shelf fitted.

Then lots of sanding, glue the frame together and probably lots of coats of boiled linseed oil.


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## MikeG. (26 Jul 2020)

Dr Al":20up75k5 said:


> ..........probably lots of coats of boiled linseed oil.



Really? Are you sure. It will be very orange in a few weeks time if you do that.


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## Dr Al (27 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":2pmqzq93 said:


> Dr Al":2pmqzq93 said:
> 
> 
> > ..........probably lots of coats of boiled linseed oil.
> ...



Not at all sure. I hadn't realised linseed oil was a problem: I thought it was quite a common finish. What would you recommend?


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## MikeG. (27 Jul 2020)

I think the simplest finish to get right is a wiping varnish. Mix 1/3rd spirit-based varnish, 1/3rd white spirit, one third oil (Tung Oil or Finishing Oil or Danish Oil or Linseed Oil.....in that order of preference). Slap it on with a brush, then wipe it off after 10 minutes max (it mustn't go tacky). Leave for 24 hours, then do the merest wipe-over with a very fine worn old piece of sandpaper, barely touching the surface. Repeat the brushing on/ wiping off. Do this once a day every day for 4 or 5 days or more, and you can build up a really nice finish. 

The beauty of it is that you can do this without the spectacular levels of cleanliness required for other finishes, and it produces a robust stain-resistant, water resistant finish which is ideal for a table. Oil and wax finishes are not robust enough for a table as they can be ruined by a cup of tea or a glass of wine.


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## Dr Al (27 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":2c6ltzuf said:


> I think the simplest finish to get right is a wiping varnish. Mix 1/3rd spirit-based varnish, 1/3rd white spirit, one third oil (Tung Oil or Finishing Oil or Danish Oil or Linseed Oil.....in that order of preference). Slap it on with a brush, then wipe it off after 10 minutes max (it mustn't go tacky). Leave for 24 hours, then do the merest wipe-over with a very fine worn old piece of sandpaper, barely touching the surface. Repeat the brushing on/ wiping off. Do this once a day every day for 4 or 5 days or more, and you can build up a really nice finish.
> 
> The beauty of it is that you can do this without the spectacular levels of cleanliness required for other finishes, and it produces a robust stain-resistant, water resistant finish which is ideal for a table. Oil and wax finishes are not robust enough for a table as they can be ruined by a cup of tea or a glass of wine.



That's really useful, thanks. I'll give it a try on a test piece, gradually applying the coats while I finish off the rest of the table.

Can you recommend a good spirit based varnish?


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## MikeG. (27 Jul 2020)

They don't need to be good. Any old thing will do. Be aware that the finish will be less glossy than varnish applied in the normal way, so if you want Satin, then Gloss might be best, and if you want Matt, then go for Satin. You can use old tins of varnish with a dried up crust if you've got some, but otherwise, any varnish which specifies white spirit to clean the brushes is good enough. If you want to darken the finish, buy a coloured varnish.


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## AndyT (27 Jul 2020)

Discussion about finishing is always harder than it should be, because of the way that manufacturers name their products. 

While I don't disagree with Mike's advice, if I've got the right end of the stick myself, only two of the oils in his list of four are 'straight' oils - tung oil and linseed oil. 
Danish oil is a generic name for the sort of wiping varnish mixture he is suggesting. And so is finishing oil - at least, the stuff from Rustin's is. 

It gets worse with anything labelled as a stain...


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## MikeG. (27 Jul 2020)

AndyT":w5zhmaq9 said:


> ......Danish oil is a generic name for the sort of wiping varnish mixture he is suggesting....



Yes, but heavier on the oil and lighter on the varnish than my mix, as I understand it.



> And so is finishing oil - at least, the stuff from Rustin's is. ...



Interesting. I thought it was a multi-oil mix like Osmo, but mainly based on Tung oil.


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## Nico Adie (27 Jul 2020)

I finished a little wine box guitar speaker using Yacht varnish diluted with some white spirit from Poundstretchers of all places. The mix was roughly 2/3rds varnish, 1/3rd white spirit. Applied in a similar manner to what MikeG describes, although I did initial application with a sponge then wiped off.


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## thetyreman (27 Jul 2020)

Nico Adie":33ck92u2 said:


> I finished a little wine box guitar speaker using Yacht varnish diluted with some white spirit from Poundstretchers of all places. The mix was roughly 2/3rds varnish, 1/3rd white spirit. Applied in a similar manner to what MikeG describes, although I did initial application with a sponge then wiped off.



that's cool, can we hear it?


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## AndyT (27 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":2b3qrkdi said:


> > And so is finishing oil - at least, the stuff from Rustin's is. ...
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. I thought it was a multi-oil mix like Osmo, but mainly based on Tung oil.



I was remembering this thread - which sort of confirms that they are similar but in different proportions. 

danish-finishing-oil-t84155.html

But I should have said Liberon, not Rustin's - sorry.


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## Dr Al (29 Jul 2020)

A bit more progress today. I did another dry assemble and stared at it a lot with the shelf fitted and with the shelf omitted. Both me and SWMBO eventually concluded it looked better with the shelf so the shelf is staying.

Not completely happy with my cuts in the shelf for the legs: my hand sawing accuracy definitely needs work. The ones that I cut slightly away from the line and finished with chisels look good, the others weren't quite perfect so by the time I'd trimmed them the gaps were maybe getting a little big (about 2 mm). I need to mull on it and decide how much it bothers me, then either remake the shelf or make the rails very slightly shorter.

Anyway, some dry-run photos (table top and shelf are only attached with gravity, so I haven't tried the buttons out yet).


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## MikeG. (29 Jul 2020)

Well I have to say that this is an excellent little piece, and particularly for it being a first-ever project. Well done. =D> =D> =D>


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## Dr Al (29 Jul 2020)

MikeG.":3o9mytvt said:


> Well I have to say that this is an excellent little piece, and particularly for it being a first-ever project. Well done. =D> =D> =D>



Thanks Mike, that's much appreciated


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## TheTiddles (30 Jul 2020)

Yep, that is looking good.

A chamfer on the edges of the shelf (maybe just round the legs) will make your cutting error appear less.

I recon a chamfer under the table top and the shelf might help too in making them appear lighter

Anyway, it’s all details now, fundamentally that’s a well-proportioned, well-made piece

Aidan


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## Dr Al (8 Aug 2020)

Gave the legs and rail a thorough sanding today (to 240 grit) and then used pretty much every clamp I own while clamping it together.

With hindsight it probably would have been sensible to use Titebond 3: I used Titebond 1 and it was all a bit frantic trying to get it all together and clamped square before the glue got too sticky.


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## Dr Al (9 Aug 2020)

I forgot to mention that I also shortened all the rails on Friday afternoon. I checked and double checked the shelf and trimmed the cut-outs in a few places until I was sure the cut-outs were square with one another. I then measured the distance between the cut-outs, added a couple of millimetres and re-cut all the rails to the new length. It means the button slots won't be quite central, but they'll only be off by a millimetre or so, so I doubt anyone will notice even if they do look under the table!

Once I'd taken the clamps off the glue-up, it had twisted slightly, which is a bit annoying given all the clamps to hold it square. As a result, it wasn't sitting flat on the worktop.

I lifted it up on some wedges and adjusted it until it was sitting level and then used a pencil in a magnetic base to scribe lines around all the feet. I then hand-sawed along the lines and cleaned up with a sander and it's now sitting flat.






I then cleaned up the remaining glue marks and gave the shelf and top a thorough sanding (to 240 grit) and now everything's sitting on my welding bench over some spread-out bin bags ready for the finish to be applied.






In the photo you can also see a very simple jig I knocked up today to hold the buttons off the plastic sheet while the finish is drying (just a bit of thin plywood with a load of M3 screws in):






I'll apply the first coat of finish later today, so that I'm leaving a consistent amount of time between coats (most coats will be done after work).


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## AndyT (9 Aug 2020)

Looking good, and well organised too.


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## MikeG. (9 Aug 2020)

Excellent stuff! =D> =D> 

You may be the first person I have ever seen to apply a finish to buttons.


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## Dr Al (9 Aug 2020)

MikeG.":3s9ifznl said:


> Excellent stuff! =D> =D>
> 
> You may be the first person I have ever seen to apply a finish to buttons.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 

It did occur to me it was a little daft, but what the heck?


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## Dr Al (9 Aug 2020)

... and that's the first coat applied (of 1:1:1 Tung Oil, Ronseal Satin Interior Varnish & White Spirit). I lathered it on thickly, left it for ten minutes and then wiped it all off. Should have put some scruffier trousers on before starting #-o 






Close-up of the top and the shelf:






The light bits look a lot lighter in the photo than they do in real life, but I'm really pleased with how it looks after one coat. I guess I've got four more to go now! I suspect the following coats will be slightly more difficult, especially on the frame: for the first coat it was very obvious where I'd applied the oil and where I hadn't.

Next update will probably be next weekend as there doesn't seem to be much point in giving daily photos after each coat!


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## Dr Al (14 Aug 2020)

Five coats done over the course of a week (with a rub down with 0000 wire wool in between each coat): the last one was applied yesterday.

A small ordeal today: when fitting the buttons, two of the screw heads snapped off while I was tightening them. I've never had that happen to me before; maybe the Axminster screws were a bit poor quality? I don't think I was being too aggressive with tightening them. Anyway, I managed to get one of the buttons out, had to cut the other one in two to extract it but thankfully I'd made one too many! The remains of the screws came out easily with some mole grips and I was back in business.

Et voila:






Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread with advice.


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## MikeG. (14 Aug 2020)

Were they stainless steel screws? They're notorious for that, as are brass.


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## Dr Al (14 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> Were they stainless steel screws? They're notorious for that, as are brass.



No, they were these: WoodSpur Torx Head Premium Self Countersinking Wood Screws

("gold-zinc" plated steel).


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## MikeG. (14 Aug 2020)

Well, oak is very hard!


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## Droogs (14 Aug 2020)

next time round try to pre drill the hole to the size of the inner shank of the screw and use some beeswax on the screw thread. It is surprising how much pressure this takes off the screw and eases fitting


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## MikeG. (14 Aug 2020)

Droogs said:


> next time round try to pre drill the hole ........



And just take a little care not to join the long list of people who have drilled straight through their newly finished table top!!


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## Sgian Dubh (14 Aug 2020)

Dr Al said:


> ... two of the screw heads snapped off while I was tightening them.


I suspect the pilot holes may have been too small. So, for example, if you were using no 8 screws, which are equivalent to 4 mm diameter shank screws, the norm is 4.5 mm diameter for the clearance hole and 3 mm diameter for the pilot hole (plus countersinking if using a countersunk screw), which works well for softer woods, e.g., walnut, cherry, pine, etc: but with oak, and some of the other harder woods, a 3.5 mm pilot hole is generally required. It's also a useful trick to smear a bit of candle wax or similar on to the screw thread prior to inserting the screw. Slainte.


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## NickM (15 Aug 2020)

First table or not, the table looks great Dr Al. Great job.


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## billw (15 Aug 2020)

Great work Al - can't wait to see what you challenge yourself with next. I recommend a bench hook


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## Dr Al (15 Aug 2020)

Just for fun I thought I'd take a photo of my new table next to the one it replaces. As I mentioned early on in this thread, I've got very little space in the house, so coming up with projects for the home is a bit of a challenge as they've nowhere to go.

This little table was in use but wasn't very nice (it cost almost nothing from Ikea and it's served us well for a lot of years since my student days, but it was time for it to be retired). Replacing an existing bit of furniture means there is space available for the new table!







I think the oak one looks a little nicer.


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## MikeG. (15 Aug 2020)

Take that pine one apart carefully, and store the wood nicely. That's well seasoned pine and will be an invaluable resource for all sorts of little jobs in future.


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