# Rob Lee's new plough plane



## Lord Nibbo (23 Aug 2007)

Any ideas? a stanley 55 ](*,) perhaps or record 43 :lol: 











Wonder how much it'll be?


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## MikeW (23 Aug 2007)

Think more along the lines of Record...the later period version...at least it looks like it to my eyes.

Mike


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## Lord Nibbo (23 Aug 2007)

MikeW":204f1kas said:


> Think more along the lines of Record...the later period version...at least it looks like it to my eyes.
> 
> Mike



I bet Alf knows, she aint about, whats the betting she's beta testing it :lol:

Come on Rob we demand to know more, now none of that rubbish about got to run. I want to get my order in before the yanks* fill the line up 8-[  

PS is it gonna be black like your other hand planes? or shocking pink? :lol:

* no reference to you Mike :lol: and whats that bit about your saws on page three of the new catalogue? \/


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## MikeW (23 Aug 2007)

Oh, Alf knows.

All I got are pretty pictures of the thing.  :wink: 

Take care, Mike


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## Smudger (23 Aug 2007)

Different from the 050C - there's one here:

ebay link


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## dchenard (23 Aug 2007)

Think 044...

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/awfs#veritas

DC


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## Lord Nibbo (23 Aug 2007)

Smudger":yvghvcbd said:


> Different from the 050C - there's one here:
> 
> ebay link


 
hmm remarkably similar :? I hope it don't end up with a crappy plastic handle.  

But what do you make of this 





Approximate Part Volume 3.51 cu inches 
Approximate Part Weight 4.95 lb 

Bloody things enormous 
](*,)


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## MikeW (23 Aug 2007)

A bit of a difference between 050C, but not a whole lot...but lots different than the Stanleyesque plows...

As for the handle...there's gotta be a bit of mystery until the Man of Mystery speaks...

Take care, Mike


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## dunbarhamlin (23 Aug 2007)

Steel's a little over 4oz/cu in - that four's a zero.


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## mahking51 (23 Aug 2007)

Its not for wood plane, it says 747 on it......  
Martin


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## Rob Lee (23 Aug 2007)

Hi- 

Pics are out there ... 8) ....

Veritas doesn't do the *burgundy* color... that's "Utilitas", or UTW that does those....

TTFN - 

Rob

(late for dinner..... :roll: )


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## Paul Chapman (23 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":1p2txrdi said:


> Pics are out there ... 8) ....



Where?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MikeW (23 Aug 2007)

Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...











Take care, Mike
really getting back to the shop...


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## Paul Chapman (23 Aug 2007)

MikeW":11m1ddpm said:


> Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...



Thanks, Mike :wink: Looks very smart 8) 8) Should work nicely.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## AHoman (24 Aug 2007)

MikeW":23e81ikq said:


> Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...



I guess it's now confirmed that Rob Lee is a Trekky?
-Andy


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## dchenard (24 Aug 2007)

MikeW":3scpckri said:


> Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...
> 
> Take care, Mike
> really getting back to the shop...



Ohhh, funky!

Can't wait to get my hands on one! :wink: 

DC


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## MikeW (24 Aug 2007)

dchenard":3osp2uwo said:


> MikeW":3osp2uwo said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...
> ...


It's not like I don't have a plow or two. But I'll still spring for one of these. I like many things that have that 1950s look to them...this included.

Take care, Mike
who's a bit jealous about the September get together...


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## Frank D. (24 Aug 2007)

Neat!
It seems that all those comments about the LV handles are having a measurable effect...they definitely look more curvy to me (at least the part that fits into the palm).    
I can't wait to try it out either!


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## Lord Nibbo (24 Aug 2007)

MikeW":bubq5gi3 said:


> dchenard":bubq5gi3 said:
> 
> 
> > MikeW":bubq5gi3 said:
> ...



Many thanks Mike for posting the pics, but you've evaded answering about page three :lol: :wink: I wonder if those casting numbers 747 are still on the machined parts? if so "Jumbo" will be my name for it :lol: Now where did I put my cheque book? :lol:

edit.... I just had another look, they machined the numbers off


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## bugbear (24 Aug 2007)

MikeW":3j5ow1vz said:


> Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...
> 
> 
> Take care, Mike
> really getting back to the shop...



I guess "screw adjust" on the fence and depth stop was too expensive. 

Shame, but understandable.

I'm a little more surprised at the absence of nickers. This really is a functional replacement for the Record #044, no more, no less.

BugBear


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## Javier (24 Aug 2007)

Frank D.":303rq96w said:


> Neat!
> It seems that all those comments about the LV handles are having a measurable effect...they definitely look more curvy to me (at least the part that fits into the palm).
> I can't wait to try it out either!



Handle looks a bit thick.


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## Paul Chapman (24 Aug 2007)

bugbear":3duu78gz said:


> I'm a little more surprised at the absence of nickers.



Maybe they will appear if/when a combination version is produced. If so, I hope they find a way of making them adjustable both vertically and horizontally, because that would really be a worthwhile advance on what's been available up till now.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (24 Aug 2007)

What I really want is a symmetrical plough, so the fence can be used equally effectively on either side. (and indeed, decent adjustment for fence and depth stop, as well as heavy cutters)
Until then, I'll stick with what I have.


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## Rob Lee (24 Aug 2007)

AHoman":5plpjwqm said:


> MikeW":5plpjwqm said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a couple from WoodNet he just plunked down...
> ...



Firstly - isn't that spelled with an "ie" and not "y" ???

Second - while I certainly do enjoy all of the series' - I don't own a phaser, a tribble, speak Klingon or dress up and go to conventions...
:roll: 

:lol: 

LLAP - 

Rob


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## dunbarhamlin (24 Aug 2007)

Hmmm, not sure about the tribble denial - these planes are breeding at an astounding rate 

Note also the verbal trickery of the final denial -

... dress up _and_ go to conventions.

And given the wondrous hephaestian temple that is LV, a Vulcan connection cannot reasonably be denied :lol:


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (24 Aug 2007)

Since Rob has broken cover on the plough, I guess I can post the picture he sent me a while back. It looks a nicer one than those posted so far.







Son of a #044 and a #50?

You know as much as I do. Only Alf appears to have used one.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## MikeW (24 Aug 2007)

Lord Nibbo":2iijzq36 said:


> ...Many thanks Mike for posting the pics, but you've evaded answering about page three...


No one ask inquired on the forums about page three--have gotten, uh, one or two emails, though :lol: 

As I haven't seen what page three looks like, though, I have no idea what it says. I do sort of know what is on it, though :wink: 

Take care, Mike


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## MikeW (24 Aug 2007)

No screw adjust...Might make it a tad easier to adjust the depth...but not in the larger scheme of things. I had a wedge-arm plow for years that had a depth stop which was wedged. I never paid it no mind.

Half the plows I have are adjusted manually and tightened in place via a thumbscrew. It's not like they need changed frequently...

Take care, Mike


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## dchenard (24 Aug 2007)

MikeW":2xya5r6b said:


> Take care, Mike
> who's a bit jealous about the September get together...



That's really too bad... You'll be missing on great party! =P~  :lol: 

DC


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## Paul Chapman (24 Aug 2007)

The arrangement for locking the fence in position looks good. Better than the usual screws which are tightened up against the rods and where the thread can get damaged if they are tightened up too much.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Rob Lee (24 Aug 2007)

Paul Chapman":2vcasrwo said:


> The arrangement for locking the fence in position looks good. Better than the usual screws which are tightened up against the rods and where the thread can get damaged if they are tightened up too much.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Ahhh... what you can't see is that the lock-up on the fence arm is a pair of collet chucks, working on drill rod... the fence slides in and out beautifully....and stays parallel...

You guys would say..."it works a treat"... :lol:


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## Paul Chapman (24 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":1pfzph76 said:


> Paul Chapman":1pfzph76 said:
> 
> 
> > The arrangement for locking the fence in position looks good. Better than the usual screws which are tightened up against the rods and where the thread can get damaged if they are tightened up too much.
> ...



Sounds good, Rob  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Paul Kierstead (25 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":x8isos97 said:


> and stays parallel...
> 
> You guys would say..."it works a treat"... :lol:



Now that is a worthy improvement.


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## dchenard (25 Aug 2007)

Paul Kierstead":2zgjr5rz said:


> Rob Lee":2zgjr5rz said:
> 
> 
> > and stays parallel...
> ...



Can't wait to try it, but I must say that I finally acquired long rods for my 044, and they seem to work quite well. I might even start to like the tool after all :lol: 

DC


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## woodbloke (25 Aug 2007)

The new LV plough looks really tasty....the 'Slope' in Salisbury has just got a bit steeper and slightly more greasy now :wink:  - Rob


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## AHoman (25 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":2rh5z21u said:


> while I certainly do enjoy all of the series' - I don't own a phaser, a tribble, speak Klingon or dress up and go to conventions...



I notice that there was no mention of the holodeck. Anyone seen Terry recently, by the way? 
-Andy :roll:


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## AHoman (25 Aug 2007)

dunbarhamlin":2kvrtuc1 said:


> What I really want is a symmetrical plough, so the fence can be used equally effectively on either side.



That would be ideal, also for a new version of the Record 778.
-Andy


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## Evergreen (25 Aug 2007)

Hmmmmm.

I've got a Record 044C and although the forward curving plastic handle doesn't attract many admirers, I can assure you it's very comfortable and helps to apply downward, as well as forward, pressure. 

IMHO, its "scorpion tail"shape works better as a piece of design than Rob Lee's latest offering where the wooden handle perches rather crudely on the back.

My 044C works just fine but like all planes of this type, has tearout problems with tricky grain. It'll be interesting to see how this new plough copes with a bit of dodgy grain.

Regards.


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## ydb1md (26 Aug 2007)

I think difficulties w/ dodgy grain is simply a fact with any open mouthed plane. Plows also have the issue of taking a thick cut *and* having an on open mouth.


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## MikeW (26 Aug 2007)

Evergreen":2q8x528u said:


> ...My 044C works just fine but like all planes of this type, has tearout problems with tricky grain. It'll be interesting to see how this new plough copes with a bit of dodgy grain.


The bedding angle is the same. That and in conjunction with what Dave mentions (no mouth, taking too heavy a cut in the wood one is working) will ensure there will be tear out.

You can try using a back bevel on a spare iron until the cut is blow the surface. Set lightly it should work.

When I am working on difficult grain, I have done one of two things. Carefully used a mortise guage to mark out for the groove, or simply knifed the lines with a marking knife. In both cases a very light cut for a few passes. Once below the surface, it may still take a relatively light cut compared to non-wild grained woods, but for a piece of furniture it doesn't take much longer.

Also, while a plow does not have a mouth, it helps to make sure the skates are truly flat along their length as well as straight in-line to each other. If the skates are not flat and the point where the iron is bedded is higher than the tow or heel, the iron needs to project further than it ought. This can lead to problems (and this condition is not uncommon) due to iron flex and make the start/end point more difficult. 

If the skate is twisted or otherwise the front/back parts of the skate out of being truly in-line with each other, it is also a pain to make a decent groove and can affect the alignment of the fence to the body. If the fence is off, that also makes starting a groove difficult.

Take care, Mike


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## Mittlefehldt (27 Aug 2007)

Wonder if the blades would be compatable with a 45 or 55?


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## whiteant (27 Aug 2007)

I also wonder if the blades will be available in metric, since Imperial will not match the wood dimensions this side of the world.


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## Rob Lee (27 Aug 2007)

whiteant":248e84o9 said:


> I also wonder if the blades will be available in metric, since Imperial will not match the wood dimensions this side of the world.



Hi - 

Asked this myself of the designer - and the reply was:

_I looked into this a while ago and found two things. 
One, metric size blades would be very close to the width 
of the existing fractional blades - in fact in some cases would 
actually have overlap with the toleranecs (i.e. 6 mm = .236", 
8 mm = .315"). Secondly, there appears to be no standard metric plywood thicknesses that we could target. 
_

Would be be glad to hear if we've missed the mark here....!

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Paul Chapman (27 Aug 2007)

In my experience, the stated and actual thicknesses of plywood are quite variable, so whatever sizes the blades were made, some adjustment of the groove or thickness of the plywood would more than likely be necessary.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (27 Aug 2007)

Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date? - Rob


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## Waka (27 Aug 2007)

woodbloke":32qyeny5 said:


> Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date? - Rob



Are we getting ichy wallet fingers Rob?


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## bugbear (28 Aug 2007)

Evergreen":81p81i69 said:


> My 044C works just fine but like all planes of this type, has tearout problems with tricky grain. It'll be interesting to see how this new plough copes with a bit of dodgy grain.
> 
> Regards.



I don't normally worry too much about the cosmetics of tear out in the bottom of a groove...

The piece that fills the groove normally hide the bottom pretty well 

BugBear


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## bugbear (28 Aug 2007)

Paul Chapman":1u2q407h said:


> In my experience, the stated and actual thicknesses of plywood are quite variable, so whatever sizes the blades were made, some adjustment of the groove or thickness of the plywood would more than likely be necessary.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Especially if the worker chooses to add an extra cosmetic veneer, or requires a sliding (as opposed to tight) fit etc.

This is why we need side rebate planes as well as plough planes...

BugBear (slope greaser)


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## Paul Chapman (28 Aug 2007)

woodbloke":2ewo3d0s said:


> Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date?



On the Aussie forum, Rob Lee said "the plow is $199 US, and will be available Oct 1 (or sooner) - we're machining them now". 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (28 Aug 2007)

Paul Chapman":o4ic2qzs said:


> woodbloke":o4ic2qzs said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date?
> ...



$199 Hmm! I suppose we will be paying £199 then :evil:


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## woodbloke (28 Aug 2007)

Waka":2jaqss3b said:


> woodbloke":2jaqss3b said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date? - Rob
> ...


Waka - that new plough looks very tasty, trouble is I don't actually need one  but it would look very 'guuuchi' on the 'Tool Wall'  - Rob


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## Waka (28 Aug 2007)

woodbloke":2navq381 said:


> Waka":2navq381 said:
> 
> 
> > woodbloke":2navq381 said:
> ...



Rob

Who said anything about needing one,you need to take a leaf out of Philly's book.


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## Rob Lee (28 Aug 2007)

woodbloke":231uvyk5 said:


> Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date? - Rob



Hi - 

Updating the website will still take a few days (a week?) - it's a long weekend here - and we've got to roll in our prices for the year...

On top of which - we have some major system changes (architecture) that will see us have limited system acess through the weekend. So - we really didn't want a whole lot of people flocking to see the new stuff just as we were taking the system down (just for short periods ). 

Give it another day or so though... and Alf will be able to send you scans from her catalogue.... :wink: :shock: :lol: 

Cheers - 

Rob


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## ydb1md (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":24mvul1y said:


> woodbloke":24mvul1y said:
> 
> 
> > Any idea when the new plough will be available and how much, have had a look at the website and nothing to date? - Rob
> ...



Would it be ok for Alf to post some scans on here, since they're in the mail anyway. :wink:


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## Rob Lee (29 Aug 2007)

That's why I sent her the catalogue... 8) 

Free labour....


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## ydb1md (29 Aug 2007)

Alf? Are you listening? Curious people would love to see scans of the new stuff. :wink:  

(tap . . . tap . . . tap . . . ) Is there any way to make this thing type any louder?


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## Rob Lee (29 Aug 2007)

Hi Dave - 

Looks like the Plow, Wenzloff saws, and a bunch of other stuff will up about 3:30 today on the website.... 

Cheers - 

Rob


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## JesseM (29 Aug 2007)

Wow :shock: This is the first I heard that LV was selling Wenzloff saws. Congrats MikeW =D> Is it the set of Kenyon saws or is it a different line?


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## dchenard (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":3krpo6xv said:


> Hi Dave -
> 
> Looks like the Plow, Wenzloff saws, and a bunch of other stuff will up about 3:30 today on the website....
> 
> ...



EDT or GMT? :wink: 

DC


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## ydb1md (29 Aug 2007)

JesseM":kmmukkox said:


> Wow :shock: This is the first I heard that LV was selling Wenzloff saws. Congrats MikeW =D> Is it the set of Kenyon saws or is it a different line?



New super-secret line. I've known about it for a bit but the catalog will by my first look at the saws and their particulars.


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## Rob Lee (29 Aug 2007)

dchenard":3bpjfgyh said:


> Rob Lee":3bpjfgyh said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Dave -
> ...



Hey Denis - 

We also did something just for you today.... :shock: 

You can now order directly from the store(s) over the web... and pick-it up ... takes about an hour ....

So....you can shop at lunch...
:roll: 

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Rob Lee (29 Aug 2007)

ydb1md":2un80zgm said:


> JesseM":2un80zgm said:
> 
> 
> > Wow :shock: This is the first I heard that LV was selling Wenzloff saws. Congrats MikeW =D> Is it the set of Kenyon saws or is it a different line?
> ...



Hi Dave - 

Only three are in the catalogue - there will be 5 online....

Cheers - 

Rob


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## Paul Kierstead (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":yf2o0bzk said:


> You can now order directly from the store(s) over the web... and pick-it up ... takes about an hour ....



WoooHoooo! I was always making a cart, cutting and pasting the numbers, then faxing in an order to the express desk. This is way easier. My g/f is gonna put a contract out on ya. 

PK


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## dchenard (29 Aug 2007)

Paul Kierstead":3v50v7mu said:


> Rob Lee":3v50v7mu said:
> 
> 
> > You can now order directly from the store(s) over the web... and pick-it up ... takes about an hour ....
> ...



So will my wife! :shock: :mrgreen:

DC


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## Rob Lee (29 Aug 2007)

Ahhh - 

Wait 'till we ramp up the sale area....all kinds of uncatalogued, obsolete, or even 1 of a kind stuff...

Y'all'll be dead meat.... :lol: 

(can you put two apostrophes in one "word"???)


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## dchenard (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":3gvdqvoi said:


> dchenard":3gvdqvoi said:
> 
> 
> > Rob Lee":3gvdqvoi said:
> ...



Well, that has never kept me from going shopping at lunch [-X But it does make life easier... \/ ccasion5: 

If Michelle finds out though... [-X (hammer) 

DC


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## dchenard (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":48bo1a75 said:


> Ahhh -
> 
> Wait 'till we ramp up the sale area....all kinds of uncatalogued, obsolete, or even 1 of a kind stuff...
> 
> ...



You mean, like the old tent sales? Boy I miss those 8) 

DC


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## JesseM (29 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":1i369uol said:


> Y'all'll be dead meat.... :lol:
> 
> (can you put two apostrophes in one "word"???)


Even in the south this would be frowned upon :lol:


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## ydb1md (29 Aug 2007)

JesseM":1vz3tths said:


> Rob Lee":1vz3tths said:
> 
> 
> > Y'all'll be dead meat.... :lol:
> ...



Yes, the proper vernacular would be "you all'll be dead meat."

:roll: :lol:


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## ydb1md (29 Aug 2007)

From Dictionary.com: 

(sometimes it's embarrassing to speak American)  

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
you-all (yōō'ôl')
pron. Chiefly Southern U.S.
You. Used in addressing two or more people or referring to two or more people, one of whom is addressed.

The single most famous feature of Southern United States dialects is the pronoun _*y'all*_, sometimes heard in its variant *you-all*. You-all functions with perfect grammatical regularity as a second person plural pronoun, taking its own possessive you-all's (or less frequently, your-all's, where both parts of the word are inflected for possession): You-all's voices sound alike. Southerners do not, as is sometimes believed, use you-all or y'all for both singular and plural you. A single person may only be addressed as you-all if the speaker implies in the reference other persons not present: Did you-all [you and others] have dinner yet? You and you-all preserve the singular/plural distinction that English used to have in thou and ye, the subject forms of singular and plural you, respectively (thee and you were the singular and plural object forms). The distinction between singular thou/thee and plural ye/you began to blur as early as the 13th century, when the plural form was often used for the singular in formal contexts or to indicate politeness, much as the French use tu for singular and familiar "you," and vous for both plural and polite singular "you." In English, the object form you gradually came to be used in subject position as well, so that the four forms thou, thee, ye, and you collapsed into one form, you. Thou and thee were quite rare in educated speech in the 16th century, and they disappeared completely from standard English in the 18th. However, the distinction between singular and plural you is just as useful as that between other singular and plural pronoun forms, such as I and we. In addition to y'all, _*other forms for plural you include you-uns, youse, and you guys or youse guys.*_ Youse is common in vernacular varieties in the Northeast, particularly in large cities such as New York and Boston, and is also common in Irish English. _*You-uns is found in western Pennsylvania and in the Appalachians*_ and probably reflects the Scotch-Irish roots of many European settlers to these regions. You guys and youse guys appear to be newer innovations than the other dialectal forms of plural you. See Note at you-uns.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


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## sparky (29 Aug 2007)

got my order in \/ :tool: 

and somehow i managed not to order ALL the new saws from MikeW. 

money, unlike wood, does not grow on trees [-(  

thanks rob and mike. you make my hobby even more fun.

sparky

ps. the only down side is that i can no longer (once the saws get here) blame my saw for my slightly sloppy joints #-o


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## Rob Lee (30 Aug 2007)

ydb1md":1pzeu80l said:


> From Dictionary.com:
> 
> (sometimes it's embarrassing to speak American)
> 
> ...



Thanks Dave.... now can y'all explain NASCAR to me??? :roll: :lol:


Ps - I can't believe a dictionary would use "newer innovations" :roll:


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## dchenard (30 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":2n30so0j said:


> Thanks Dave.... now can y'all explain NASCAR to me??? :roll: :lol:



Easy! It's a demolition derby done on an oval track... :mrgreen:

DC


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## CHJ (30 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":293bdk04 said:


> Ps - I can't believe a dictionary would use "newer innovations" :roll:



I can, look to its source. :twisted: 

_And before you all get offended over the pond look at my profile_. :lol:


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## mahking51 (30 Aug 2007)

Hi all!
Over here a y'all is a sailboat! (yawl) :lol: 
Martin


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## kees (30 Aug 2007)

dchenard":3r7pezv3 said:


> Rob Lee":3r7pezv3 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Dave -
> ...



the Kenyon set is sold by "thebestthings", a very nice company. The backsaw is now at LV's; "divide et impera"  Haven't seen Mike here the last few days.......


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## sparky (30 Aug 2007)

Rob Lee":cdg7wbev said:


> now can y'all explain NASCAR to me??? :roll: :lol:



sure...left hand turns done VERY fast and VERY LOUD. its quite an adrenaline rush to watch. and its an excuse to hang out with about 200,000 other roudy fans, while drinking your favorite beverages. ccasion5: 

not the worst way to spend a weekend 8-[ 

sparky


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## sparky (30 Aug 2007)

im just a little curious. :-k 

Rob, since you said (im not sure if it was here) that there will be lots of new stuff coming out soon, is there anything else that you can tempt us with :twisted: 

a glutton for punishment  
sparky


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## ydb1md (30 Aug 2007)

sparky":3rcmglve said:


> Rob, since you said (im not sure if it was here) that there will be lots of new stuff coming out soon, is there anything else that you can tempt us with :twisted:
> 
> a glutton for punishment
> sparky



Rob'll be more than happy to provide you with a source of temptation. :lol: 

You didn't hear him mention the matched pair of 289-inspired planes? Or are you looking for pics? He's been sorta spare on the pics recently.  :wink:


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