# Ooops: Methylated spirits and japanning = yuk!



## Fromey (17 Oct 2010)

I've been reconditioning my WWII to post-WWII (not sure of the exact date) No 5 Stanley jack plane this weekend. After disassembling it all I gave it a scrub in white spirits as it was looking pretty grubby. The white spirits came out looking like muddy water. So I thought I'd give it a rinse in clean spirits and, for some reason, decided to use methylated spirits instead of white spirits. Wrong move! I noticed the blue japanning starting to come off but by the time I had the plane out, it was too late. Granted, there was only about 60% of the original japanning left on the plane, but now the shiny dark blue has turned to a blotchy matt pale blue. Doh!

Of course this will not affect the use of the plane, but I am now considering stripping all the japanning off with paint striper and then painting it a fresh. I know there are various recipes for doing authentic and near-enough-to japanning, but they look rather involved/tedious. I'm therefore considering giving it an undercoat with antirust primer and then some Hammerite smooth metal paint (either straight black or as close to the original blue as I can get).

Does anyone have any experience with this type of paint on planes or advice on a better paint to use?


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## Vann (17 Oct 2010)

Fromey":943abwjp said:


> I'm therefore considering giving it an undercoat with antirust primer and then some Hammerite smooth metal paint (either straight black or as close to the original blue as I can get).
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this type of paint on planes or advice on a better paint to use?


I tried Hammerite, but have been unhappy with the results. When I brushed it on (_black_), it went off so fast the brush marks remained. When I used the aerosol cans (_black_ and _red_) the pigment seemed too thin, allowing the primer to show through on corners and raised lettering - even after two coats.

Possibly my technique is lacking, as others claim success.

Cheers, Vann.


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## mtt.tr (17 Oct 2010)

try yacht paint dries much slower so the brush marks shouldn't be noticeable


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## jimi43 (17 Oct 2010)

Japanning is virtually indestructible and meths should have had no effect on it at all (other than cleaning the crud off).

I suspect that it is not real Japanning and therefore you can start again anyway.

I have seen some lovely matt black paint effect on metal lately and really love it.

I used Halfords Matt Black enamel on my Suva guard on the Inca saw I restored and was well impressed....








Use grey primer first.

Jim


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## Paul Chapman (17 Oct 2010)

I've found Japlac paint very good for use on tools http://www.international-paints.co.uk/p ... enamel.jsp

Unfortunately they have reduced the range of colours. For example, they used to do a dark blue that was very close to Record blue. However, they do black which should be OK for a Stanley plane.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## studders (17 Oct 2010)

Fromey":h5lyjscy said:


> blue japanning



Blue on a Stanley? I thought they were all Black. Is it the original Japanning?


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## Lons (18 Oct 2010)

You can buy aerosol cans of high temperature paint in various colour inc matt black. Used on car engines, exausts etc.

I haven't used it on planes but did on a lathe a number of years ago and found it to be very durable and covers well so might be worth a go.

halfords is a start

Bob


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## Fromey (18 Oct 2010)

Thanks all. Yes, at the back of my mind I wondered why japanning would be comming off with just methylated spirits. Knowing that it's not the original japanning makes stripping it easier on my conscience.

As an aside, the handles came up will after stripping off the varnish, sanding and then Sandolin wood oil. The blade's comming up a treat as well.


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## Alf (18 Oct 2010)

Just for completeness of info, the late USA Stanleys (1960s) had blue paint rather than black japanning.

If the paint finish bothers you, you could always try japanning it - here and here for some information. Or you could just paint it pink and know you'll never have it nicked... :lol:


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## Ironballs (18 Oct 2010)

I repainted an old Record in blue hammerite smooth, no primer. Seems to have doen the trick


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## jimi43 (18 Oct 2010)

Ironballs":2rbkvyqt said:


> I repainted an old Record in blue hammerite smooth, no primer. Seems to have doen the trick



This was a Record No.7 done with Hammerite Smooth Blue..again no primer ....






It's not Japanning but it's decorative, stops rust and tarts the thing up well enough for me.






I think we have to differentiate between "collecting" and "using" here...

I am a user bordering on collector and had this been a rare example of a never-to-be-repeated tool, then I would have considered re-Japanning it...or just leaving it. But it ain't.

It's a workhorse...used virtually every week to carry on what it did before...

I think your conscience is clear....just go for it..Halfords Matt Black (yummy cool modern colour)...or equivalent satin High Heat Engine Paint...ala Veritas....or Hammerite Smooth (Black or Blue)...

You can't go wrong with any of them.

Jim


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## Pekka Huhta (18 Oct 2010)

I have used shellac as a replacement for japanning. Mixed together with soot it gives a very good likeness of the original japanning. I usually put two or three coats of black shellac followed by one or two clear coats. It may be possible that someone else has used a similar system on the plane and that's why the surface came off. 

Shellac dries very fast and the coating looks almost identical to original japanning. If the surface is dulled a bit with extra fine steel wool to bring some patina to it, I think that seven out of ten regular plane collectors won't know the difference. 

The best part of it is that you can just wash the coat off with a generous amount of alcohol, if you want to go back to the original. 

Pekka


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## studders (18 Oct 2010)

jimi43":37o704px said:


> You can't go wrong with any of them.
> 
> Jim



I managed to.  

Painted an old 080 Record scraper with smooth Hammerite, two coats. For some reason it wouldn't dry properly and so several days later when I tried to reassemble it I ended up with a very sticky mess and Blue fingers.

:?


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## jimi43 (18 Oct 2010)

studders":3w1ncyjy said:


> jimi43":3w1ncyjy said:
> 
> 
> > You can't go wrong with any of them.
> ...



Might have been out of date paint...don't know why it wouldn't dry otherwise.

Jim


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## studders (18 Oct 2010)

jimi43":2xu7b7e9 said:


> Might have been out of date paint...don't know why it wouldn't dry otherwise.
> 
> Jim



You're probably right Jimi. I remember buying it to repaint my Vice and that was quite some years ago.


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## Vann (19 Oct 2010)

jimi43":297jv8e2 said:


> Ironballs":297jv8e2 said:
> 
> 
> > I repainted an old Record in blue hammerite smooth, no primer. Seems to have doen the trick
> ...


Hi jimi, ironballs.

Brushed or sprayed? Aerosol or proper spraygun?

I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what..  

Cheers, Vann.


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 Oct 2010)

Here is a recipe for cold curing Japanning: _half asphaltum and half marine varnish._

Asphaltum is obtainable from art supply shops.

Paint on and leave until dry. It will take several coats. You can speed up the drying by leaving the plane out in the sun. It takes about 2 weeks overall to cure. 

Keep the drying surfaces horizontal as the mix is self-levelling.






Regards from Perth

Derek


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## jimi43 (20 Oct 2010)

Nice to hear from you again Derek...you have not been around lately.

Once again...an excellent tip...I was not aware of cold Japanning and this is most interesting.

I can see that Asphaltum is Mineral Asphalt and is available for about £8 from TN LAWRENCE ART SUPPLIES in the UK.

I have ordered some and will report back on this...very very intriguing.

One question. If you have say, a standard Stanley sole to do..and you have one horizontal base and two sides....how do you apply the finish and keep it from flowing out? Do you do each surface one at a time and if so how long before the self-leveling action stops?

Jim


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (20 Oct 2010)

Hi Jim

There is more detail at the end of this article on restoring a #51/52:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRestor ... 05152.html

Just be patient and you will be rewarded with a true japanned finish. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## jimi43 (20 Oct 2010)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> There is more detail at the end of this article on restoring a #51/52:
> 
> ...



I have read a lot of your blog content Derek and must have missed that bit!  

Asphaltum is on order...500g...a bit steep on postage but what the heck!

Looking forward to this...I have a lovely old Stanley that suffers only from lack of Japanning and this will be a great project...will post when I do it.

Cheers again mate...superb as usual!

Jim


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## Richard T (20 Oct 2010)

Derek wrote:
"You can speed up the drying by leaving the plane out in the sun."

I don't know what this means, but I think it must be an Australian thing.  
Even in Kent Jim, this might be a tall order. It's October and there are several brass monkeys in my shed already. 
Thanks Derek - it would be good to be able to do some real japanning, I'll look into it too. Maybe wait til next summer though ..


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## jimi43 (20 Oct 2010)

Vann":1sondlic said:


> jimi43":1sondlic said:
> 
> 
> > Ironballs":1sondlic said:
> ...



It took me a few reads on that one Vann...one of which was making sure I notice punctuation in future!  

Mine was brushed on...I used a quite expensive fine fibre brush but you have to be prepared to throw it away afterwards! :wink: 

I feel that Derek's cold Japanning is going to turn out better but not in blue obviously! :wink: 

Jim


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## Ironballs (20 Oct 2010)

I painted mine on with a brush (the Hammerite) and applied fairly thickly to allow the brush marks to run out


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## tekno.mage (21 Oct 2010)

Hammerite is weird paint - I don't get on with it that well myself, but my partner uses it a lot on old tools and machines. He repainted an old Stanley surform body with the smooth bright red (over metal primer) and after two coats it looks like new (or it will when he gets around to making a nice wooden handle for it to replace the nasty plastic original :lol: )

You do need to apply Hammerite quite thickly to avoid brush marks. Do read what it says on the can regarding when you can apply the next coat (especially the hammered versions). There is a "window" of a few hours from when the first coat dries - and if you miss that you have to leave the item for several days before applying the next coat. If you don't do this, you end up with a nasty streaky mess that takes ages to dry properly. I understood this was because hammerite contains two solvents with different drying/curing times.


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## jimi43 (22 Oct 2010)

Ok received the asphaltum yesterday and tried to find the tin of marine varnish I thought I had but haven't got...well I have but it's black!  

Tried to get some more and blank stares at the local hardware...unless I want acrylic varnish...I am out of luck apparently.

I guess this has to be solvent based or the asphaltum will not dissolve...what do you think Derek?

In which case...would this YACHT VARNISH be ok?

Jim


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (23 Oct 2010)

Hi Jim

That yacht varnish should be perfect - I used marine varnish. Indeed, another name for "spar varnish" is marine varnish. So there!

The asphaltum powder looks dark brown, not black. The first coat of the mix will look like dirty water/thin mud. Keep going - it gets darker and more even as you add the coats. 

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2010)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> Hi Jim
> 
> That yacht varnish should be perfect - I used marine varnish. Indeed, another name for "spar varnish" is marine varnish. So there!
> 
> ...



Thanks Derek. 

Yes...I thought it was the same...just a tad worried that in today's Nanny state they had extracted the Mojo out of "marine varnish" that actually dissolves asphaltum to protect the scrotes that sniff it instead of allowing natural selection to take place! :wink: 

Everything I came across at the local hardware store was "water based" this and "acrylic" that...

Will order some of that this morning and get on with it with no further ado!

Cheers shipmate!

Jim


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## GazPal (23 Oct 2010)

Some reasonable information and formulae for Japanning;


http://www.cranialstorage.com/wood/elmo ... l#auto_top


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## warrenr (23 Oct 2010)

Hi 

Another cheaper source of asphaltum powder (refSKU: IRGASP01) is Itaglio ( http://www.drupalstuff.co.uk/category/resists-grounds) a London based printmaker supplier. The cost of 500g including postage is £8.93. 

Regards 
Richard


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2010)

warrenr":3tl68oo5 said:


> Hi
> 
> Another cheaper source of asphaltum powder (refSKU: IRGASP01) is Itaglio ( http://www.drupalstuff.co.uk/category/resists-grounds) a London based printmaker supplier. The cost of 500g including postage is £8.93.
> 
> ...



That's WAY better than my supplier...mostly because of the postage cost from TN Lawrence...it was a fiver for just that bit...total nearly £14

Thanks for the tip

Jim


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2010)

GazPal":3njfvkl8 said:


> Some reasonable information and formulae for Japanning;
> 
> 
> http://www.cranialstorage.com/wood/elmo ... l#auto_top



That is interesting reading indeed GP! And reinforces my thought that the asphaltum has to dissolve in the marine varnish so it has to be solvent based.

I wonder which method is best...

Jim


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## GazPal (24 Oct 2010)

jimi43":4fzkp1mf said:


> I wonder which method is best...
> 
> Jim



From a "Just in case something goes wrong" perspective, I'd approach the use of pre-made varnish as a carrier medium/solvent/hardener with a degree of caution during the experimental stages. This is simply because the combined mixture could potentially separate if there's a clash between ingredients. Ingredient "X" in the varnish being a potential problem. 

Instead of adding Asphaltum to marine varnish, why not instead use a pre-coloured varnish? Especially since the more modern carrier medium (Varnish) can be bought coloured or clear and then tinted using disolved earth pigment/lamp black.

Shellac disolved using Turpentine is among the more traditional carrier mediums for Lamp Black (Soot) when Japanning.

I hope this helps;

http://wkfinetools.com/tMaking/z_readin ... own-ne.pdf


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