# Bread bin wip



## AndyT (11 Jan 2017)

We need a new bread bin. Apparently they are available in the shops, but that's too easy and no fun. Besides, I want one made out of a suitable native hardwood, of a particular size. And just for fun, I want one where the front and back slope inwards. I think this might be a nice little warm-up project before I embark on something more ambitious later this year. 

The design is really just a dovetailed box, with the lid at the front so it drops down as a cutting board. A bit like this:







The wood is ready. Some of you may remember that I deep-ripped a lump of alder into four half-inch boards, last October - deep-ripping-by-hand-t100654.html - it used to look like this:






then it looked like this






and then it looked like this






After three months in the workshop, the boards are still as straight as when I cut them, which is nice, as I don't work quickly. According to the books, alder was a popular wood for kitchen equipment as it works well and imparts no nasty taint to foodstuffs. 

While the wood patiently waited, I did spend a while thinking about angles and dovetails and things. This is a full scale drawing of one end:






Unless I have missed something obvious, I can't make the ends symmetrical - because I want the front to open but not the back. I'm hoping that the slant of the dovetails will chime well with the slant of the ends and even if it's not quite regular, the overall effect will be ok. (Not that I expect anyone to give it a second glance - it's only a bread bin!) I am still undecided about how I will fit the back - it will probably have tongues on the ends, but not on the long edges. 

Should I be leaving a ventilation gap along the top back edge, which would be easy to do? I don't want the bread going mouldy. 

Anyway, I have made a bit of a start today. I took my sketch and cutting list and decided how to get the six pieces out of my four boards. The original lump of wood was wedge shaped, and to get the widths I need, the edge joints will have to follow the angle of the wedge. Maybe that will emphasise the angled nature of the box, or maybe my joints will all be invisible :lol: 

The wood had a few defects - a bit of sapwood, some reversed grain approaching knots, and a bit of a branch. Here you can see that I marked out the defects with blue chalk, then fitted the required pieces in between, in white, with plenty of margin for error. Even on a tiny project like this, I find this stage difficult, so it was a relief to find that yes, there is enough wood, and nothing to be gained by trying to make anything bigger out of it. Chalk is good for when you need several attempts at layout. 






Should I edge join the boards into two long pieces, then cut them up, or cut them up and then edge join them? It's a bit too late to ask...

I had a go at jointing the whole length of the edges 






Here you can see that I have not gone far enough, and the shaving is not yet full width.






And here you can see that, with one end pinched together, there is rather a big gap at the other.  






So I hopped over to the bandsaw and divided out the six bits I needed. 






I then planed them properly and clamped them up. I used my old folding-wedge clamps, all made out of finest skipwood or old floorboards.






You just hold a hammer against one wedge and knock the other end with another hammer.






Also make sure that the pieces are in line to make a flat board - that's what the rawhide mallet was for. 

Realising that some readers might be a bit worried that I have a bandsaw and used it for six cuts earlier, here's a reassuring picture of cutting another board with this "plenty-of-life-left-in-it-yet" Disston. 






And that's all for now, while we wait for the glue to set. It's a cosy 14 degrees in my unheated basement, which is plenty warm enough for hand planing, and warm enough for waterproof PVA glue too. 

More when there is any progress, but don't hold your breath...


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## stewart (11 Jan 2017)

Looking great. Thanks for taking the time to photograph the different stages - makes it so much more interesting to follow!


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## SteveF (11 Jan 2017)

looking forward to this

your top sketch looks like a car

Steve


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## AndyT (11 Jan 2017)

SteveF":365ed2i7 said:


> looking forward to this
> 
> your top sketch looks like a car
> 
> Steve




So it does! The circles were marking bits where the design was not quite right. I guess there shouldn't have been so many!


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## lurker (12 Jan 2017)

I too thought you were making a car themed bread bin


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Jan 2017)

Curiously, there's no mention in The New Sylva about alder being used for kitchen utensils - but it is highly prized for electric guitar bodies, Fender started to use it in preference to ash in 1956.


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## Austinisgreat (12 Jan 2017)

phil.p":3rm6g9gc said:


> Curiously, there's no mention in The New Sylva about alder being used for kitchen utensils - but it is highly prized for electric guitar bodies, Fender started to use it in preference to ash in 1956.


It was cheaper, and easier to finish. :shock:


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Jan 2017)

"It remains highly prized for the bodies of the best electric guitars, because it provides excellent tone without excessive weight"
For what top class instruments (Fender in this instance) sell for I doubt a few dollars on the price (without going into exotics) of the blank matters too much.


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## AndyT (12 Jan 2017)

Today, I have been mostly planing.

I made it a bit harder for myself by glueing some of the boards together so an already-planed face was alongside a rough-sawn face like this:











but it didn't matter in the end. I can still get nearly 1/2" out of all six pieces - well, it's more like 15/32" but the exact size doesn't matter as long as it's consistent. 

So I marked the thickness in the usual way, using a new-to-me gauge, the sort with a spiral cam in which tightens when twisted.






and planed away like this 






and with a Stanley 4 1/2 smoother until the boards look like this






and the floor is full of shavings.

It's still a nice steady 14 degrees in the workshop, which is just right for this sort of activity. 

I've been trying to find where I read about alder being used for domestic articles. So far, I've found references to it being used for clogs, fencing, plywood, textile rollers, and to provide the best charcoal for gunpowder making, but there are a few more books to check yet.

Edit: Found it. Woodworking in Estonia, page 12.

"Due to its softness the European alder has been used for hollowed out deep utensils, or for turned wooden bowls. Also, milk or butter firkins were made of them because alder does not impart any smell or taste to the contents."


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## custard (12 Jan 2017)

Great project! It's not often that you see Alder in commercial timber yards, which is a pity. It does everything that Poplar does, but it's home grown rather than imported and doesn't have those nasty green streaks so you have the option of leaving it unpainted. Whenever I see it for sale, which is normally in smaller, local timber yards, I usually pick up a board or two, and it's a very useful timber to have in the workshop.

It's far from a universal rule but I've noticed on quite a few antiques that Sweet Chestnut was the secondary wood of choice for Oak furniture, but Alder was the secondary wood for higher quality pieces where the primary wood was anything other than Oak. And, as you say, it was a common choice for treen and kitchenalia, unfortunately plenty of antique dealers wrongly describe it as Sycamore, so I don't think it's appreciated just how widespread its use really was.

Incidentally, how do you get on with your Marples "transitional" plane? I've got one exactly like yours, the rarer version with the closed tote. I can understand why it's rarer because the closed tote prevents the user from adjusting depth of cut on the fly! Apart from that they're pretty good, I love the shape, like a 1930's locomotive.


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## sunnybob (12 Jan 2017)

Andy, according to wood databases, alder is classed as an irritant and is mildly toxic and can cause skin and lung irritation. make sure its extremely well coated before use.


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## n0legs (12 Jan 2017)

Well done Andy, thanks for sharing =D>



custard":2w7px52j said:


> It's far from a universal rule but I've noticed on quite a few antiques that Sweet Chestnut was the secondary wood of choice for Oak furniture, but Alder was the secondary wood for higher quality pieces where the primary wood was anything other than Oak.



There you go again Custard, answering questions before I've asked them :lol: 
So Alder would be a good secondary timber choice for a modern English Walnut piece?


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Jan 2017)

Burrs for decorative inlays. Many of the piles found in Venice and Amsterdam are made from it, as it doesn't rot when continuously immersed. Not that they are domestic.
In one book published 1989 it was reported as being the most commonly available commercial hardwood in Washington and Oregon, so it would seem to be commoner there.


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## Phil Pascoe (12 Jan 2017)

"Edit: Found it. Woodworking in Estonia, page 12."
Only you, Andy, only you ... =D> :lol:


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## AndyT (12 Jan 2017)

phil.p":3v3itaz9 said:


> "Edit: Found it. Woodworking in Estonia, page 12."
> Only you, Andy, only you ... =D> :lol:



It's not as obscure as it sounds, honest!

Roy Underhill named it as one of his three favourite woodworking books http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... rite-books and Lost Art press have done a fresh translation. Perhaps I should do a bit of a review.

Custard, the little Marples plane just felt right working on this modest scale. I do agree it's a successful design.
I did a thread on it when I got it. 

marples-hybrid-plane-t90264.html


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## DTR (12 Jan 2017)

Thanks for posting AndyT, watching with interest....


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## Sawdust=manglitter (12 Jan 2017)

Also watching with interest (the OH has been bugging me for one!)


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## AndyT (13 Jan 2017)

Not so much to report today, but the smattering of snow this morning did take the temperature down to 13 degrees for a while this morning, so some more vigorous planing was needed. 

Without wanting to start any sort of distracting discussion about how to do it, I will take the risk of repeating something that I have said before and so have plenty of others. The single most effective way to improve your planing is to sharpen the iron in your plane. And sharpen it frequently - like an artist sharpening a pencil. It's not something to put off as long as you can - little and often is best. 

For me, on this job, I did most of the planing with the Marples and finished off with this nice old Stanley 4½, with a Record Iron and a Stay-set cap






and this equally old oilstone






but *other methods are available and also work*!

So I had this little stack of boards in time for an early lunch.






Coming some time soon or when I feel like it - cutting out the bits, dovetailing, grooving and some ideas for a hinge and a catch.


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## Iestynd (13 Jan 2017)

Following along with interest. 

With regards to your question about a vent.... Surely the sole purpose of a breadbin is to keep bread fresh, and therefore away from light and air? I'm no expert though so that is just my 2p worth. 
The board smoothing looks like its gone well. I really need to get my hands on a plane and give that a good go, it seems really satisfying.


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## sunnybob (13 Jan 2017)

years ago we had a wooden bread bin with a drop down front (shop bought I hasten to add). It didnt have any vent but there was lots of air circulation around the door.
Now I keep my bread in a plastic tupperware type container, but dont snap the lid completely shut.


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## Sheffield Tony (13 Jan 2017)

I do so enjoy a WIP from Andy. Worth it for the interesting tools alone  

Regarding a vent - I had to replace the bottom in our (bought) breadbin, it had gone mouldy. I put a few vent holes in the back to try and avoid it happening again. I don't think you'll stop bread going stale by enclosing it; part of the process is water being locked away as water of crystalisation within the starch, not just drying out. Which is why stale bread can be, for a short time at least, resurrected by a quick zap in the microwave.

We did try a "bread crock" - a pottery drum with a tight fitting lid. Strangely, it made the bread taste vaguely of bananas :duno: 

I was just about to ask what the plywood thing was next to next to the rule, but I see in an earlier picture it is an extension of a tail vice or clamp. Useful idea.


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## custard (13 Jan 2017)

Andy, you asked for some photos of my Marples plane. I can't seem to send photos on PM's so I'll post them here,






















I've just noticed the iron is marked as crucible steel, I wonder if it's laminated? I didn't think to look, I'll check tomorrow. Since a recent thread about laminated irons I've kept an eye out when I've been sharpening and I seem to have a fair few, mainly Records but also one Stanley iron that's marked made in England.


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## AndyT (13 Jan 2017)

Thanks Custard. Yours is clearly a Marples product, from the frog (with the distinctive bent loop on the lateral adjuster) the iron and the marking on the body. Mine has the same closed handle - which I have not seen on any other pictures on ebay or in catalogues - but a Stanley frog, painted gold. 

I wonder if there are more than two of them?


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## sunnybob (13 Jan 2017)

just googled crucible steel, its foreign!


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Jan 2017)

It would be to Cyprus.


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## Woodmonkey (13 Jan 2017)

Love these hand tool wips Andy, and I love that Marples plane, I want one!


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## AndyT (26 Jan 2017)

Gosh, how time flies!

Covering the digression on late Marples planes first, I was fairly surprised to see a plane like mine or Custard's (but with the common straight handle) sell on eBay for £95.88. Then again, it was mint, and with the original box. If you are feeling sad that you missed out, don't despair - the new owner has re-listed it with some nicer photos and a buy it now price of £225, so it will probably be available for a while. :roll: 

Meanwhile, back in the workshop, I made a little bit of progress in cutting the bits to the right sizes. 

Here I have the two ends, in the vice and in handscrews, so I could plane a straight, square face edge






That will do:






I marked the size while the two ends were together






then set the bevel gauge to 1:8 as per the drawing and knifed out the slanting cuts






Making a dovetailed box is an example of a job where the components do need to be accurately cut to size, since the ends become reference surfaces for marking the joints. That's why I wanted a knife cut here, not a pencil line. 

To cut the other side parallel to the first is a job for a small panel gauge











Cut a groove for the saw






and then saw down, cutting the whole width at one go, so it's nice and straight






For the rip cuts, the simplest way is to use my little Burgess bandsaw and then plane back to the line, so that's what I did.






For the base and top, I needed to lose some wood from both edges, as there was some sapwood to be avoided - you can see here that it even has had some worm attack






so I reached for a marking gauge to get a line to cut to, only to notice that I had somehow embarked on a common technique for applying localised colour:






So I paused for a bit, and carried on again today.

Having cut the top and bottom to length and width, I thought I was ready to start on the dovetails, as shown on my original design.






Can you see where I have gone wrong?




















It's a classic beginner's mistake - dovetails on side grain!   

I had thought about this earlier on, really I had. I knew that I want a box which has been rolled 90 degrees, so what would normally be the lid becomes the front flap. One of my initial sketches had a note about it. But the real mistake was made weeks ago, when I was deciding how to fit the parts onto the glued-up boards, here:






- that trapezium should be rotated 90 degrees so the top and bottom go on the end grain. *Bother!*

Frustrated at my blunder, I checked the original size of the glued-up board - it was too narrow as it was, but I could have exploited the slanting edge of the original wood, and glued two wider bits edge to edge. Instead, I thought of it as tidy wide boards, wide enough for the wrong layout, not the right one. (With hindsight, I could have cut out paper shapes, like a sewing pattern, and arranged them on my boards. If I had done that, I might have had the sense to mark the grain direction, like sewing patterns do for the warp and weft direction.)

So, I am now stuck with the grain orientation you see here. Short of making the ends from an ugly patchwork, I must use the bits I have. 

I can see a few options but would welcome opinions and suggestions. 

A) I could do the whole thing with butt or rebate joints.
B) I could have tongues on the long boards fitting into grooves in the ends.
C) I could have one row of dovetails only, on the back, with a plain butt or rebate on the top and bottom.

What would you do?


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## Woodmonkey (26 Jan 2017)

D) Get some more wood and start again?


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## No skills (26 Jan 2017)

Rebate with something to add strength and decoration in a contrasting timber, maybe some dowels or splines of some sort.
I'm doing a small toy chest with rebates and brass screws atm, the rebate is obviously simple but I found it very satisfying when the sides came together quite nicely.


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## Sheffield Tony (26 Jan 2017)

That's a tricky one. How much seasonal movement is likely ? Might be enough to matter with the grain side to side on the top and base, but front to back on the sides. Some sort of sliding dovetail rather than T&G ?


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## sunnybob (27 Jan 2017)

Is it important? Its a bread bin, so unlikely to be subject to extreme pressure sideways.
Unless it is really offensive to you to look at each day, or you were planning on exhibiting it, I'm pretty sure no one else is going to realise it.


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## Racers (27 Jan 2017)

Mmmm rebate in the sides or mitre and contrasting feathers or a spline.

All's not lost, think of it as a design opportunity not a mistake.

 :wink: 

Pete


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## AndyT (28 Jan 2017)

Thanks for your replies. I have decided to go for dovetails at the back, fitting the bottom on with tongues and grooves into the ends, and for the top, rebates at either end. It shouldn't need to be especially robust, just to sit on a worktop. Plus it gives me a chance to practise something other than just dovetails. 

I spent quite a while drawing the layout for the dovetails on paper, so the actual layout step was quite quick. 






First step, mark a baseline with a marking gauge. This is a nice one - it's not obviously a cutting gauge, but its old pin (which might just be a mild steel nail) has been sharpened to a knife edge. It makes a nice minimal line which will be easy to clean up later.






Clamp the two ends back to back. Mark the half pins, then walk along with dividers set to (outside width of tail + outside width of pin).






Mark across with a small try square and extend the lines down to the baseline with a sharp pencil. 






Saw down the tails to the baseline. I used my nice Coates vice to get a good grip at a back-friendly height. 






To remove the waste, I quite like to saw most of it out and just pare the last little bit. If you use a standard coping saw blade, it's too thick to go down after the dovetail saw. That's not a problem; you just cut down in the middle, then turn either way towards the corners. 











I'd not yet cut the back piece to length, so I couldn't carry on and mark out the pins. To find out what the actual length is, I need to sort out the top and bottom. 

As noted, the top will have a pair of little rebates. These are only 1/8" deep so I decided to plane them. Mark lines with sharp gauges, chisel off a little slope at the ends (to avoid spelching) and plane away with plane of choice. 

Normally I prefer the old wooden moving fillister with its skewed blade for this sort of job, but it wasn't the best on this small scale.






so I did most of it with a Record 78






but finished off to the marks with my home-made shoulder plane. It's not going to win any planemaking beauty competitions, but it cuts well, even cross grain. 






(NB - posed photos only - I don't actually plane with just my left hand!)

That's all for now. 

Before I cut any more wood, I have been thinking about a catch for the front flap. This will pivot on a pair of pins at the bottom and close between the left and right ends. I'm wondering whether to try and make it a bit stiff, so it doesn't need any sort of catch. Or maybe it would be better if it moved freely (even without crumbs trapped in the joint) and was held in place with a magnet or something.

Maybe something with an elegant wooden spring to release. Ideas and examples welcome!


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## El Barto (28 Jan 2017)

Great update Andy. I think your shoulder plane would certainly be in with a shot at a beauty award...! I like the idea of keeping things minimal and having the front flap stiff, that would be cool.

Is it normal practice to clamp the boards together and cut the dovetails that way? I haven't seen it done before but it makes sense in terms of efficiency.


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## AndyT (28 Jan 2017)

Thanks, el Barto.

The shoulder plane was my first home made plane. It has an assortment of filing scratches and mis-sized rivets. However, it works and I urge anyone else to have a go. I did a thread on it here
another-home-made-shoulder-plane-t26321.html

Ganging tail boards together was, I believe, normal practice when hand work was the norm and efficiency mattered. You can pin boards together too, which helps keep them in sets, eg for drawers. I think it's a good reason for preferring to cut tails first. 

It also makes it easier to cut at right angles to the surface as you can see angular errors better on a longer cut.


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## Racers (29 Jan 2017)

Hi Andy 

The shoulder plane shot is a shaving susgestion!

A Krenov style catch would be good for the lid.

Pete


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## custard (29 Jan 2017)

AndyT":396ia4jy said:


> The shoulder plane was my first home made plane.



It still seems to get the job done impressively well!


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## El Barto (29 Jan 2017)

AndyT":32r8ptt6 said:


> Thanks, el Barto.
> 
> The shoulder plane was my first home made plane. It has an assortment of filing scratches and mis-sized rivets. However, it works and I urge anyone else to have a go. I did a thread on it here
> another-home-made-shoulder-plane-t26321.html
> ...



Nice one Andy. I'm going to have a read of that thread later.


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## AndyT (12 Feb 2017)

I hope nobody expected this to be a quick project... but I've made a few steps forward, and too many back again. Here are some more pictures and musings. 

Ok, the easy bits. I decided on a tongue and groove joint to hold the bottom in place. Because I can't hide the groove in the dovetails, like you do in a drawer, the grooves need to be stopped where they meet the dovetails, and can't be made with the plough plane. Here you can see the gauged lines coming to a stop.






The first step is to chisel out some space at the end of the groove, like this but a bit longer:






then the router plane can make the rest of the groove, lowering the cutter a fraction at each pass. An offcut of the same wood helps keep the router level. 






until it looks like this






I used the fence on the router at first but soon abandoned it - with the cutter being quite a bit narrower than the groove needed, it was easier just to aim between the lines manually. 

The tongues on the ends are only 1/4" thick and 1/8" long, so I thought chiselling would be better than sawing. Gauge the lines, then take off the end corner to avoid splitting:






chiselling lets you take a nice thick shaving






and a paring chisel lets you work the whole length the easy way of the grain






tidying up with the shoulder plane






This shows the relative thicknesses of chisel and plane shavings.






And here's the story so far, showing the top and bottom resting in position






Attentive readers will be able to spot at least one design error by now - I'll explain more in the next post. 

For now, I'll just suggest that if you want to make something like this, don't rely on a vague idea in your head - do a full sized drawing of all the parts!


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## MattRoberts (12 Feb 2017)

Top panel doesn't cover the depth of the dovetails? Thanks for the progress updates, great to see how you're getting on


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## AndyT (12 Feb 2017)

MattRoberts":365agcw4 said:


> Top panel doesn't cover the depth of the dovetails? Thanks for the progress updates, great to see how you're getting on



No, that bit's ok - the top moves back to cover the dovetailed ends, and the front stands up against it when closed, between the ends, then flips down as a cutting board. Having its edge exposed makes it easy to open. 

(In my head, anyway...  )


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## AndyT (19 Feb 2017)

Here's the mistake I was on about. I managed to change my idea about the grooves, realising that they needed to be stopped where they meet the dovetails at the back. However, they ought to have been stopped at the front as well, where the front flap will fit between the sides.







I'll need to fill in the ends of those grooves with some little slips of matching wood.

Meanwhile, I completed the dovetails. Conventional techniques - hold the pin board vertical in the vice, lay the tail board over it, hold it down with a flatiron, mark around the tails. 






Cut out the waste on a pedal-powered fret saw






where it's quite ok and safe to get the angle at the end of the cut by lifting the wood with your fingers - 






- do people with electric fretsaws do the same? When doing this, I really enjoy the way that the speed of the cut changes without needing a hand on a control - I just imagine the action going slower or faster as required, and it happens automatically!

Finished pins






and a test assembly






You may notice that the dovetails at the back don't look quite right - that's because, in a classic error, I started treating pins as tails and cut the wrong bits off!  Correction due later. 

Error clearly visible here, where I was bevelling off the square edge of the back, to line up with the sides. 






The front flap needs to be rounded on its bottom edge so it can pivot and lay flat as a cutting board, so I marked out a curve on the ends, 






and planed it






I'll fit the flap and top after initial glue-up of the main body. Glue up is a good time to tidy up and check that everything is ready. 






I assembled one end






then added the other, with some cramps to draw the joints tightly together.






My new cramps work nicely!

Last job for today was to stick back the missing bits of the dovetails - I hope these will blend in well enough not to be noticeable to anyone except me. 






Next time, recovery from two more errors if what I have in mind works, and just possibly the finished item!


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## AndyT (21 Feb 2017)

A few more crumbs of progress...

I cleaned up the dovetails a bit. Not strictly necessary yet, but I like doing it. It also shows how good square-bodied wooden handscrews are, since you can cramp them to the work, then use another one, or a holdfast, to hold them down to the bench. Necessary, since this breadbin is about 1/32" too long to fit into my vice. 






A fiddly little job was to fill in the wrongly exposed grooves. Fortunately, I still have all the offcuts, so I was able to use a couple of pieces from the next bit of wood along from the error. Here's one, glued in and held with a little homemade cramp (from Robert Wearing's design). 






When the glue had dried, I carefully sawed and chiselled the excess wood away. 






Not perfect, but good enough. 

Another design error was that I was missing a bit of wood where the top, front and sides meet. The front goes between the ends and rests against the edge of the top, but needs to be wider at its upper edge, as wide as the top. Pity I'd already cut it!

Fortunately I've thought of a way to make the front stay in place when closed. If I add a wider strip of wood to the front, it can lift up into place and drop down again. It's hard to describe but there will be pictures soon. Meanwhile, I need to add some wood back - from the exact same piece I cut off. So out comes the panel cramp again. The extra bit is bigger than needed at present - I'll do a trial fitting, mark it from the rest of the box, then trim it back to size. 






I also drilled the holes for the hinge pins. Actually I could't find the brass rod I was going to use for pins, so I am using screws. These will be fitted into the bottom edge of the front, through slots at the bottom of the sides. So here goes with some holes.






I fixed a backing piece in place first, to avoid any risk of splitting at the back. I drilled two holes, then enlarged them into a slot with files. (These are really cheap Chinese files, which seem fine on wood.) I'll add countersinking when I know if my guess for the length is ok.


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## Woodmonkey (21 Feb 2017)

Looking good Andy.
When I did a furniture making course a few years ago our tutor told us that "a good cabinet maker is not one who makes no mistakes but knows how to fix his mistakes". It stuck with me that quote.


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## AndyT (22 Feb 2017)

Today's work has been fun, but doesn't look much. I've done lots more fitting and fiddling, which I find quite enjoyable. 

I did several trial fittings of the front flap, trying to get it to sit nicely between the ends and flop back to meet the stops on the sides evenly. I realised that although I had put a convex round on the bottom edge of the flap, I needed a matching concave groove behind it to allow it to hinge freely. One of the nice things about using hand tools is that it is perfectly possible to do something such as cutting a groove in the edge of a board between ends. I just carved it freehand, first with a nice thin, flexible paring gouge






and then with a slightly larger out-cannel gouge






To finish the shape, I wrapped some 80 grit sandpaper round a slip of wood with a rounded edge, and sanded the groove. 






Just a few minutes work. 

I trimmed off the extra wood that I had added to the front flap, nearly to the finished size - I'll do the final planing with it in place, using the top of the finished bread bin as the reference. 

The ends of this extra bit need to stick out on either side, to fill in the gaps at the top corner. I decided to leave these a bit long for now, so they can be used to open the flap. So they need to be rounded off - a nice little vertical paring job






followed by some chiselling and sanding. 

I'm not sure if these are a good idea or not. I may well cut them off and carve a finger notch on the front flap. What I don't want to do is cut them off now and then have to glue something else on later. Opinions welcomed - should they stay or go?

Another fiddly job was with the slotted holes. Having adjusted these a little bit more by filing, I needed to countersink them for the raised head brass screws. I know from experience that a rotary countersink will just mess up a slot like this in soft wood, so I carved the countersinking with a small gouge. (Now I see the photos on a big screen close up, I think I may need to remove another tiny sliver of wood toget this right.)











With that done, I sanded the inside with an Abranet hand pad on the vacuum cleaner, adjusted the fitting of the top and glued it on. Here it is in the clamps, waiting for another rainy day, when I can plane and sand the outside, possibly change the fastening method and finish off.


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## Racers (22 Feb 2017)

Nice work as usual Andy. 

Nice use of hand tools, it shows just how useful and quiet they are. 

Pete


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## Sheffield Tony (22 Feb 2017)

I really like the use of the old iron  

That paring gouge must be pretty flexible to be able to do that with an in cannel gouge. Good result though. Regarding the handles / finger recess, bearing in mind that you need to be able to lift the flap and pull it forward, I wonder if your "ears" might not be easier than a finger notch. Presumably a handle is out if you need the door to lie flat as a carving board. But they might make opening it a two handed job, which isn't ideal. Definitely worth leaving them on until you've tried it out !


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## AndyT (22 Feb 2017)

Yep, very flexible. There's an episode of the Woodwright's Shop where Roy makes decorative grooves (I think it's on a pine cupboard) in a similar way. I was glad of an excuse to try it!

You're right about the ears too. Maybe a pair of finger notches would work, one on the inside for opening the flap, the other on the outside for lifting the flap off the worktop.


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## Racers (22 Feb 2017)

How about a handle like your chest of draws that will keep the flap off the worktop so you can get your fingers underneath it? 

A piece of nice wood would look good. 

Pete


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## AndyT (22 Feb 2017)

Racers":3flr9tm8 said:


> How about a handle like your chest of draws that will keep the flap off the worktop so you can get your fingers underneath it?
> 
> A piece of nice wood would look good.
> 
> Pete



Hmm... At first, I thought that wouldn't work - a handle would prevent the flap from lying flat, and I want it to be usable as a cutting board. But I could put rubber feet on the bin, of the same depth. I'll try some mock-ups next session.


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## Racers (23 Feb 2017)

How about some nice turned feet like this.



Starfish preamp by Racers, on Flickr

Pete


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## Bm101 (23 Feb 2017)

Andy, just a thought. What about a recessed handle hinged with some brass rod maybe? Bit like a flush pull ring type handle but you could make it from wood? Cut the recess, fit a flush handle so you can open easily but would sit flush again on the worktop while using as a breadboard. Maybe rout a small 'finger pull' groove in the top edge of the lid so you can easily lift when it's flat?
You'd have to iron out the physics lol. 
I'm just an ideas man. :| like some faceless team of experts paid fortunes to improve efficiency, my ideas may be unworkable and have no sound basis but look good on paper before you try to implement them in real life. I still demand 27 % of all pre tax profits though. 
Enjoying the thread mate.
Regards
Chris


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## AndyT (8 Mar 2017)

Thanks guys and sorry for the long silence - but you know I don't like to hurry. 

The handles/feet discussion was really helpful and enabled me to make up my mind. I experimented on a scrap with carving a finger recess, but it was too small and looked a mess, so I decided to add a little handle and some feet instead. Separate feet, a bit like your amplifier Pete, but square not round. Chris, I like the idea of a finger ring but haven't risen to it this time. Nevertheless, I shall send you a cheque for your share of the profits. Indeed, it's in the post! :---) 

I used a scrap of lovely old mahogany, left over when I turned a discarded Victorian table leaf into a shelf and needed to cut one corner out. I kept the corner, since the wood was such a nice colour and so easy to work. 

For the handle I settled on a simple tab. The top side is horizontal, the underside is bevelled at the same 1:8 slope as everything else, as are the ends. In use, it's the same depth as the feet. I cut them square, with the sides bevelled to the same angle. I didn't photograph every slow, plodding step, but this is how I laid them out, drilled holes and planed them off level.
















In cutting the sides, I thought of the job as being like cutting dovetails, so missed a trick. If I had laid them out the other way round, I would have been able to plane the bevel rather than chisel it and the holes would have all been properly central. Never mind, I'll do that next time. 

Having made the feet, I bought some Osmo Polyx and applied a few coats. It looked so nice I decided to finish the inside as well, so please don't tell me that was a mistake...






And here it is, completed, only six months after first cutting up the alder wood. :lol: 






I'm sure everyone reading this will know how, when you finish a project, you mostly see the mistakes. I do, but I hope other people won't, and will be distracted by something else. 

I'm pleased with the made-up-as-I-went solution to keeping it shut. The front flap is free to lift a litle, then hangs on the angled slope in the corners. No need for catches, magnets or hardware. 






In use, the flap folds down level. 






It'll do for now!


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## memzey (8 Mar 2017)

Very nice Andy! A unique and tidy item. I like it a lot!


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## Woodmonkey (8 Mar 2017)

=D> looks lovely, nice work. Do you think it will be ok that the grain on the top is running at 90 to the grain on the side pieces, I mean with regards to seasonal movement?


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## AndyT (8 Mar 2017)

Woodmonkey":29jf5f88 said:


> =D> looks lovely, nice work. Do you think it will be ok that the grain on the top is running at 90 to the grain on the side pieces, I mean with regards to seasonal movement?



Yes, well, that's one of the little blunders that I hope non-woodworkers won't notice!

You're quite right that the ends ought to have the grain running vertically so the whole thing is like a conventional box, rotated 90°. By the time I realised, I'd cut the pieces too close to change them. I'm hoping it is small and dry enough to be stable. I'm encouraged by the way that there was no distortion when I ripped the original lump into four.


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## Racers (8 Mar 2017)

Nicely done Andy, and a loaf straight out of the bread maker as well!

Pete


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## Sheffield Tony (8 Mar 2017)

I think the handle and feet was the right choice. Adds some contrast and easy to use one handed. The latch is a clever idea too. And the alder looks good with the Osmo. I hope you've allowed enough time for the turpentine smell to blow off before the bread went in !


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## AndyT (8 Mar 2017)

Thanks for the kind words Tony but don't worry, that's a posed shot with the loaf. (With the distinctive breadmaker groove.)
It won't go into use for a month or more. I don't like to rush!


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## n0legs (9 Mar 2017)

Turned out great Andy, well done =D>


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## DTR (9 Mar 2017)

Very nice Andy. I love the angled door catch, very clever! =D>


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## Col (9 Mar 2017)

Very nice project Andy - appreciate everything being done by hand from the the ripping of the original stock! Must make you feel even happier the end result!


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