# integrated dishwasher in framed cabinet? HOW?



## Joe90 (10 Apr 2008)

Hi

I would really appreciate any advice on how floor standing appliances (especially dishwashers) can be integrated into framed cabinets? All dishwashers are floor standing as far as I can tell, there don't seem to be any models which sit inside cabinets.

For example I have made this kitchen cabinet where the gap is for a floor standing dishwasher which was left exposed.







I would like to be able to make a similar cabinet but with a fold down door for the dishwasher... but how can I have the bottom framing running across continuously?? I.E how would the dishwasher be pushed in? (Ideally there would only be 'legs at the very outsides, and the framing would run between them all across the unit) 

DeVOL kitchens seem to be able to do it... I can only think of making the cabinet and lifting the cabinet itself over the dishwasher.. but this causes it's own problems.

Any advice would be very much appreciated.

I have done it once where I made a door as normal and attached the bottom framing to the bottom of the door, this is ok but is hardly brilliant, as I say DeVOL have examples of integrated dishwashers and a overlaid 'skirting board' type plinth around the base.. surely the dishwasher is trapped completely in that case?

Cheers
Joe


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## Joe90 (10 Apr 2008)

Hi

Just a quick link to DeVOLs website which shows their appliance base cabinets.. as can be seen the framing runs continuously across the base of the unit... so are these cabinets lifted over the dishwasher or what? 

http://www.devolkitchens.co.uk/catalogu ... ion_id=290

Very confused...
Joe


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## Paul Chapman (10 Apr 2008)

How about if you make the bottom rail click on and off in the same way that plinths are fitted?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mcluma (10 Apr 2008)

I looked on that website and it says ......will fit a fully integrated dishwasher, 

this means that you have to by an integrated (not free standing) dishwasher 
the front of the door is less thick (which will take a cabinet door) and the skirting has to be lowered to fit under the the door (otherwise the door will not open)

Hope this helps


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## MooreToolsPlease (10 Apr 2008)

What I've done in the past is to attach the bottom rail of the face frame to the door, and have a minimal gap between th verticle pieces of the face frame.
from a distance it all looks like its in one piece with the face frame.


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## Joe90 (10 Apr 2008)

Thanks for the replies, much obliged.

MooreToolsPlease: Yes, I have done them in the past the same way (attaching the lower frame to the door itself, leaving slight gaps)... it's a little bit of a bodge though isn't it? It does seem to be the only way however... what frustrates me is that DeVOL seem to have a magical solution.

Consider the following cabinet from DeVOL
http://www.devolkitchens.co.uk/catalogu ... ion_id=110

The 2360mm Sink Cabinet (with integrated dishwasher) halfway down the page... this shows a skirting board type plinth, I have seen photos where this plinth is completely continuous (link to photo below), yet the opening for the dishwasher could only be a maximum height of ...

890 cabinet height - 120 minimum base piece height - 50mm upper framing height = 720mm which is the approximate height of the door space... I can't source a dishwasher that is only 720mm tall.


I have a large Gorenje brochure from Hafele, they have 'fully integrated' dishwashers but they are floor standing requiring a minimum height of 820mm.

DeVOL use Kuppersbusch appliances so they may have a model only about 720mm to 740mm tall but I don't think so, I will send an email to Kuppersbusch to confirm.

What seems clear is that 'fully integrated' dishwashers seems to be floor standing, not sized to sit inside cabinets.

PaulChapman: Thanks for the input... however if the lower framing clips on and off the door probably won't open correctly as it flips downwards and dishwasher door and cabinet door combined are at least 40mm thick... however... See following photo

http://www.devolkitchens.co.uk/projects ... imagenum=5

The right hand side of the sink cabinet most likely houses a dishwasher.. it seems inpossible to me. I don't even understand how the right hand door can flip down without fouling the lower face frame given that it must pivot from the back side so the front side must foul the frame? . :?: 

Cheers
Joe


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## CNC Paul (10 Apr 2008)

Hi Joe,

The Devol drawing shows the doors having butts....so are side hung, how this works with a drop down dishwasher door I am not sure. Their stuff has about 670 wide doors so you could use either B/I or freestanding appliances with a door hinged from the frame 670mm wide will give an appliance plenty of clearance.

I have done face framed kitchens with the frames down to the floor and prone skirting. The frame is attached to the door and fixed to the appliance, about 120mm up from the floor you have a 45D cut through the frame..... the lower piece is fixed to the cabinets either side with catches.


Paul


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## BradNaylor (10 Apr 2008)

Hi Joe,

With kickboards or recessed plinths it's easy; simply build a door up which incorporates the face-fame as well, with the butt hinges glued into slots to give the impression of it being a normal door and frame. So long as the kickboard is set back far enough the 'door' will work perfectly and no-one ever notices the difference in a run of doors.

The difficulty comes with an applied plinth or with the arrangement in your photo.

I had to copy a DeVol kitchen a couple of years ago and came up against exactly the same problem. I solved it by making the door, the top rail, and the stiles of the face-frame as described above, but with the lower rail connected to the adjacent cabinets on metal brackets and fitted after the dishwasher was pushed into position, raised, and levelled.

In order to facillitate the opening of the dishwasher door, the lower rail has to chamfered backwards at 45% - and then scolloped out. 

It's a bit fiddly, but it works fine!

I've been looking for photos, but don't seem to have any of the dishwasher. Unfortunately the client was one of those real pains and I *really* don't want to go back and take piccies now!

Cheers
Dan.


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## Joe90 (10 Apr 2008)

Hi

Great, loads of excellent replies, I'm very happy.

I think I know what's going on now..

PaulChapman, I must apologise, you were right.. the door need not foul the lower face frame... I had forgotten that the pivot point for the door is not at the base of the door as the door is attached to the dishwasher itself... the faceframe does need to be eased however but that is easy enough and doesn't show from outside the cabinet.

I have drawn a piccie to illustrate. (drawing shows the frame and door from the SIDE not the front)






I have drawn the door in it's open and closed positions... the door is set back very slightly into the cabinet by 1mm or so... I always do this with 'flush' doors as I feel it looks better and is easier as well... (easier in that if a completely flush door is out at all it looks bad.. but if a very slightly recessed door is out by a fraction it looks ok)

There is a 1.5mm gap between the lower face frame and the closed door, again ok.

The pivot point is shown by the X type marker... the circle represents the 'swing' of the lower outside edge of the door and shows what needs to be removed from the face frame to prevent fouling... I feel the pivot point is accurate placed.. in reality it is probably even higher and further back (into the cabinet) which makes the fit even easier.

I will now make my cabinets and attach the lower face frame (after installing dishwasher) using clip on brackets of some sort, I should be able to achieve a nice tight fit which hopefully won't be too noticeable. I could even attach a skirting as long as the customer knows the dishwasher isn't easily removed for repair.

In terms of this cabinet 
http://www.devolkitchens.co.uk/projects ... imagenum=5
from DeVOL I reckon the dishwasher is indeed trapped in the cabinet, in the sense that it can't easily be removed because of the applied skirting board type plinth. 

To be honest I was surprised to see that design from DeVOL as there is no toe space... so the lady of the house must lean forward constantly to use the sink.. this is unnatural and causes back pain doesn't it?

All replies appreciated, hopefully this thread may be of help to other members in the future...

Cheers
Joe


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## neilc (11 Apr 2008)

Hi Joe,

This is my own kitchen which I completed a few months ago. Its not exactly what your thinking of doing but it might help.
Overall View




The bottom of the face frame is built into the door, full length kicker board.




Side view




Hope this helps.
Neil


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## BradNaylor (11 Apr 2008)

Nice drawing Joe, it shows perfectly the reason for having to shape the back edge of the lower face frame rail to allow the door to swing freely.

I woke up this morning thinking about this. How sad is that? :lol: 

I used brackets to attach the lower face frame rail. However Paul Chapman gave me an idea. If you attached it with roller catches at each end it would make the whole installation procedure a lot more straightforward. The rail could clip on and off until everything was set up right and then the plinth fixed in place right at the end as the client is writing out your cheque!

:wink:


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