# Cutting gears in metal sheet (or buying plastic ones)



## Deadeye (19 Dec 2017)

I've drawn up a (quite longstanding now) project that has lots of gears; 60-odd.

Originally I got them laser-cut in 3mm acrylic... but the laser cutting service produced a bevel rather than cutting vertically, which on the bore made them run off-true on the shaft and so miss-mesh (parallelograms in cross section not rectangles) even if the teeth might have tolerated the inaccuracy.

Because some of the gears run on nested tubes concentrically, the bores need to be different sizes.

Ideally I'd find a source of cheap nylon (or similar) modulus 1 or, better, modulus 2 gears, where I can drill my own bore from a, say, 1mm pilot (it's just a fun project, I don't want to throw a ton of cash at my prototype), and select gears from c.12 to c. 104 teeth. I need to stack them so flat is good. Modulus 0.5 I can find but are too small to accomodate the larger nested shafts. Any sources?

Failing that, I'd pay a bit more for metal ones and, failing *that*, I'd cut my own.... which brings me to second question: what's the best sheet material for this if my available tool is a scroll saw (I have a band saw but I think it won'y like to do even modulus 2 teeth)? Aluminium 2mm sheet? I have to both cut teeth and drill the bore. I also need to fix (CYA) some to the shafts (which are nested brass tubes). Brass sheet seems pretty expensive.

Advice very much welcomed.


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## NazNomad (19 Dec 2017)

A scroll saw with a metal cutting blade would do 2mm aluminium.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/pegas-metal- ... s-ax877557 ... these will cut up to 3mm


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## Deadeye (19 Dec 2017)

NazNomad said:


> A scroll saw with a metal cutting blade would do 2mm aluminium.
> 
> That's helpful - thank you


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## Harbo (19 Dec 2017)

Cutting 104 teeth is going to be very tedious!
An expensive but accurate way is to buy gear wheel cutters 












I use a scroll saw to cut out the spokes.

Rod


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## Brandlin (19 Dec 2017)

I'd suggest getting them laser cut without the centre holeand then drilling them yourself for the axle. 
alternately a hobby sized cnc machine would do you for machining acrylic... or aluminium.


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## J-G (20 Dec 2017)

I suggest 'Tufnol' - as shown in harbo's picture - and yes, making your own is undoubtedly the cheapest and most efficient way to go - you'll never find 'off the shelf' gears with variable bores and re-boring stock items would likely be difficult to maintain concentricity.

As long as you have a dividing head, a milling machine (you might get away with a pillar drill) and a lathe,

A set of Involute gear cutters for MOD 1 or 2 is easily available though you might like to look out for a Jacob's Gear Hobber - not the cheapest route but by far the best. I have one, but only have hobs up to MOD 0.7.

My guess is that you are making an Orrery - in which case you should be looking at cycloidal form gears rather than involute, and fixing them to the shaft with a key would be better than 'gluing' them.


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## bugbear (20 Dec 2017)

J-G":3211ln2d said:


> I suggest 'Tufnol' - as shown in harbo's picture - and yes, making your own is undoubtedly the cheapest and most efficient way to go - you'll never find 'off the shelf' gears with variable bores and re-boring stock items would likely be difficult to maintain concentricity.


Reboring using a hand drill or drill press might pipper up concentricity, but it's pretty easy to do accurately in a lathe, or mill.

it just comes down to accurate centreing, which is a standard procedure.

BugBear


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## CHJ (20 Dec 2017)

*Deadeye*, do you know anyone with a 3D printer? once you have a basic gear routine changing diameters, teeth numbers etc. is fairly straightforward.

See the wealth of OpenScad Scripts that can be manipulated.

Some images and explanation


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## AES (21 Dec 2017)

@deadeye:

This is a VERY long shot, but I've just spent a couple of days+ stripping 3 old inkjet printers and a small photocopier (MUCH to my good Lady's disgust)!

I must say that when I answered her question about "Why are you making yourself all dirty messing about like that?" I had to answer that I had no particular project in mind but just had to keep hold of lots of "good" stuff like precision ground steel rods (many look like silver steel), springs of all sorts, various small can motors of 12 and 24V, and Yes, lots and lots of gears of all sizes, most but not all moulded in a "plastic" of some sort (very nicely moulded too I must say).

As said, at present I have nothing particular in mind, so if you send me a PM with your postal address I'll send you a Jiffy bag full of those gears.

The "deal" would be that, after Xmas now, I'll send the gears to you by post at my cost, you take out whatever gears you can use - they're not all on the same size centres - and whatever is left (doesn't matter if it's 10 or 100 (I guess there's about 100 or so in total, I haven't counted them), then you post the rest back to me at your cost.

As said, I have no idea whether or not a single one or all of them (I very much doubt it!) will fit your needs, but if you want to try that, we can do it.

The only other thing I can suggest off hand is that on the net I've seen various suppliers of gears (and related stuff) of all sorts, used by hobbyists in the model car and small robotics areas. That COULD be a source??

Other than that, cut your own, get them CNC'd, or 3D printed (though I guess those last 2 options may probably be as expensive as buying gear cutters and cutting them yourself).

HTH

AES


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## Deadeye (21 Dec 2017)

Many thanks all.

This forum is amazing for someone like me who's just starting.

I don't have a metal mill/lathe, so I think gear cutters may be "too hard".
Tufnol, scroll saw and patience seem like the answers.


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## heimlaga (21 Dec 2017)

A clockmaker's gear cutting mill should be made for the job.
I saw one recently for sale...... I think he asked for something like 200 euros for the whole rig. An old hand cranked version. Should cutt brass gear wheels easily.

I know the oldtimers did cut gear wheels in a metal shaper using a dividing head though I have never seen it done in reality. I have a shaper and a dividing head but neither is ready for use in the near future. They are both mothballed awaiting more space. This is how it's done though they show a bevel gear not a straight one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6RmNSiTMwg
If you can find a small metal shaper cheap this may be a route forward. Shapers generally went out of use in industry in the 1950-ies so those that survive often turn up cheap. This is a 7" Atlas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ToNsP8EMbk


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## bugbear (22 Dec 2017)

Deadeye":1l5hg15o said:


> Many thanks all.
> 
> This forum is amazing for someone like me who's just starting.
> 
> ...


Do you have a drill press?

If you add a cross vice AKA XY table (and some metrology) you might be able to re-bore accurately.

BugBear


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## Deadeye (22 Dec 2017)

Hi

Yes - I do have a smallish drill press and a 4" vice. I think I can do the bores pretty accurately. The issue is the teeth

If I could buy blanks with the right numbers of teeth I'd be sorted.


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## bugbear (22 Dec 2017)

Deadeye":1rkfs1c4 said:


> Hi
> 
> Yes - I do have a smallish drill press and a 4" vice. I think I can do the bores pretty accurately. The issue is the teeth
> 
> If I could buy blanks with the right numbers of teeth I'd be sorted.


Indeed. The process I was working towards was getting a fresh batch of laser cut plexiglass gears, with no more than a centre-dot
made by the laser, and you could create the various central bores yourself.

BugBear


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## Deadeye (22 Dec 2017)

Hi

Yes - the perspex was looking good other than the beveling issue. It affected the bores most but meant that the teeth were also slanted (talking c. 10 degrees off perpendicular). If the bores are cut square then the teeth will mesh, although not as well as I'd like. I don't know if that's an inevitable outcome of heat cutting a melt-able material or my provider just did an inept job?

If I could find a source of 2mm or 3mm thick, Mod 2 or 3, toothed nylon cogs with no bore (or a teeny pilot) I'd be laughing. I can get Mod 0.5, but they're too small and fiddly and won't take the larger tubes as axles.

Thanks again everyone


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## bugbear (22 Dec 2017)

Have you priced water jet cutting?

That would cut brass, tufnol, nylon, steel, and can be very accurate.

I have NO IDEA on the cost.

BugBear


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## J-G (22 Dec 2017)

Deadeye":3ssghkex said:


> Hi
> Yes - I do have a smallish drill press and a 4" vice. I think I can do the bores pretty accurately. The issue is the teeth
> 
> If I could buy blanks with the right numbers of teeth I'd be sorted.



If you can take pre-cut gears with just a mark to indicate the centre and drill them on a drill-press with the accuracy of 0.01mm "you're a better man than I Gunga-Din" !!

MOD 1 gear teeth are only 2.4mm deep so if you are (say) 0.1mm out of centre with your bore you'll get less than a quarter turn before binding - unless of course you increase the nominal centre distance between meshing gears by (say) 0.4mm and that would lead to 'sloppy' mesh for most of each turn. Not only that there would be a sinusoidal variation in the speed of the driven gear.

It may well be acceptable (though inaccurate) for your application if it involves only forward motion (ie. clock or Orrery) but normally the bore and PCD should be absolutely concentric - and that is difficult to achieve without cutting the bore first.

You could use straight sided teeth and 'lantern' pinions which would negate all issues about bore concentricity and accurate centre distance of course!


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## Inspector (22 Dec 2017)

Being as I live across the pond I added England to a search "plastic gears" and got the following.
http://www.hpcgears.com
https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Plastic-- ... ars-3314-c
https://www.gearsandsprockets.co.uk
http://www.motionco.co.uk/gears-c-32.html

Plus what comes up on eBay, Amazon and Aliexpress.

I also had a quick look on Alibaba.com and tons of companies have plastic gears of all sizes with many having the MOQ starting with one part. If you know the gears sizes and specs you can provide them with a list of them with the quantities you want and they will come back to you with a price and shipping options. I've done the same buying LED lighting for my workshop and a VDF to run a 3phase dust collector. 

Once you get the gears from any of these places you will only need to put them on your machine and not have to futz with the bores.

Pete


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## Deadeye (22 Dec 2017)

Hi

I can centre by getting a pin the right size in the chuck and then clamping the gear whilst changing to a bit of the target bore diameter. A little "slop" isn't the end of the world.

I have found loads of sites that sell gears of the right sizes - at £5-25 per gear it's going to cost me hundreds of pounds for a proof of concept project!

I looked at water jet cutting. In terms of cost/cm, approximately it seems: water jet >> CNC > 3D print > laser >> moulding > cut your own (ignoring time).

People seem not to build much geared stuff these days!


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## Inspector (22 Dec 2017)

If you had written in your first post the steps you had already taken and the conclusion you've come to I would not have spent any time searching for possible sources and I suspect some others might not have either. Maybe if you have been good Santa will put them under the tree for you.


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## Deadeye (22 Dec 2017)

Inspector":32tmt98k said:


> If you had written in your first post the steps you had already taken and the conclusion you've come to I would not have spent any time searching for possible sources and I suspect some others might not have either. Maybe if you have been good Santa will put them under the tree for you.



Golly! Sorry to have offended you; unintended.

I'm genuinely exploring the options and all the posts have been helpful in that. I hadn't looked at water jet, but now have (as a consequence of this thread) - and it's expensive.

To summarise:
- I'd like to do this as inexpensively as possible because, well, because.
- I tried laser cutting. It produced a technical issue, although I'm not sure whether this is a feature of lasering meltable material or poor operation
- CNC is expensive
- I have researched (following this thread) 3d printing (£1 for 8cc seems the best I can find so quite costly) and water jet (expensive)
- The ready made options are frustrating as they either have bores too wide or limited size range or cost ten quid a go.
- I can cut wood ones, but they need to be modulus 3 and up really and it makes it very big.

Sometimes on things you don't know about, someone has a great tip or insight, or a website that is perfect but is on page 20+ of the search results.

On your post specifically I have not come across Alibaba before ... and have now raised a query. It's rather a daunting site though!

Thanks again for your help.


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## profchris (22 Dec 2017)

Could you buy the gears with the oversize bore and bush them down to your desired bore? Brass tube is available in 1mm increments with each size fitting inside the other. A little slop, but not too bad.


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## AES (23 Dec 2017)

Exactly the same thought occurred to me profchris (but I remembered it after I posted on this thread).  

AES


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## Deadeye (23 Dec 2017)

profchris":17bl2vdy said:


> Could you buy the gears with the oversize bore and bush them down to your desired bore? Brass tube is available in 1mm increments with each size fitting inside the other. A little slop, but not too bad.


That's a good idea - thank you


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## RobCee (30 Dec 2017)

You may find that somewhere like 3D Hubs enables you to find a more competitive 3D-Printing service. You do have to register with them, but they enable you to pick the elements which are important to you for your job and match you with folks who have the capability.
I ended up matched to a local teenager with a 3D-Printer and the time to run a job for a very competitive price. You will need a 3D model of your gears though.


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## dickm (30 Dec 2017)

Thinking along the same lines, there is a place in Aberdeen called Make, which is community focused and has all sorts of printers and similar kit available for use. There are certainly other branches in Mainland Europe, so may be also elsewhere in UK.


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