# Cheap planes



## JohnBrown (5 Nov 2009)

Hi, 
My local hardware store has this on sale for £19.99, what do you think? Is it worth buying or will it be a piece of [email protected]?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faithfull-N...ef=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=diy&qid=1257440451&sr=1-6


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## Smudger (5 Nov 2009)

Probably worth it for the handles.
Some people say they have tuned them to be usable, most say it isn't worth the effort.


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## woodbloke (5 Nov 2009)

What night is tonight?.. :-k ...Bonfire night! - Rob


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## JoinerySolutions (5 Nov 2009)

The time and effort taken for the presentation box should have been invested in at least one of the planes! Just my opinion but then the last brand new plane I bought from Stanley took several hours of fettling to get it right and that was 12 years ago! :wink: 
On another tack what do you want them for? Rob.


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## matthewwh (5 Nov 2009)

If you are after a cheap but sensible plane and can hold on for a few weeks I may have an alternative for you.

Quangsheng originally designed their planes to a spec supplied by Woodcraft in the USA where they are marketed as wood river planes. They are still a country mile off the sort of standards that we see from Clifton, but they have got the fundamentals right.

I have yet to use one, but I have had copies of the spec sheets from their materials suppliers and photographs of their production processes, all of which strike me as being correct. My only concern so far is their use of water hardening steel for the irons (the chinese equivalent of W1). This varies greatly upon the qualities of the water in which it is hardened, do it in Sheffield (UK), Pittsburgh (USA) or Miki City (Japan) water - lovely jubbly, do it 50 miles away from any of those places and it has the potential to be absolutely diabolical. Believe it or not Ashley Iles (the man not the company) used to drive to Sheffield and import water to Lincolnshire a truckload at a time just to harden his steel in, it really is that important. AI eventually switched over to O1 which has virtually identical properties but can be hardened anywhere in oil. Most of the Sheffield manufacturers now use O1 because it is so consistant and so good, even though they have the right water to harden W1 availabe on tap.

I won't be able to tell until I sharpen it, but as a pre emptive countermeasure I have started buying up English made O1 blades to retro fit if the Chinese made ones are not up to snuff. 

I'll keep you posted.


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## big soft moose (5 Nov 2009)

matthewwh":2zfi9j5f said:


> If you are after a cheap but sensible plane and can hold on for a few weeks I may have an alternative for you.
> 
> Quangsheng originally designed their planes to a spec supplied by Woodcraft in the USA where they are marketed as wood river planes. They are still a country mile off the sort of standards that we see from Clifton, but they have got the fundamentals right.
> 
> ...



I saw these on your blog and am awaiting them with baited breath , what no.s are you importing ? - I really need a big plane like a 6 or 7 but theres no way i can afford the clifton/veritas/neisen prices and ive been unable to find an old stanley or record.


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## matthewwh (6 Nov 2009)

No.6, No.5, No.4, No.3, Low angle block, Low angle rebating block and some 'shaves.


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## AndyT (6 Nov 2009)

For twenty quid, buy them.

I've got the equivalent Faithful version of the 778 rebate/filister plane, and would judge it to be much better than the bottom of the market chaiwanese stuff you find at Screwfix/Toolstation etc.

You can then *also* buy the Workshop Heaven higher grade options when they appear!

That way you will have a diy plane - to use on rough or painted wood, or lend to your neighbours and (hopefully) a more responsive precision tool as well.

Andy


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## Boz62 (6 Nov 2009)

To digress slightly, has anyone seen any reviews yet for the new Stanley Sweetheart Shoulder Plane. At £57 (when in stock), it's a lot cheaper than any other shoulder plane I've seen. The only stuff I've seen are press release type previews, not full reviews. Once I've filled that hole in my armory, a No 6 would be nice however 

Boz


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## jlawrence (10 Nov 2009)

I have these exact Faithful planes.
Personally I think they're a decent starting point - no point starting off with good planes (ie LN et al) when I'm likely to trash 'em whilst I'm learning. My #4 isn't square sole->side and I've no idea how to sort that.

Added: I'm looking forward to seeing these chinese ones when Matthew's got them in.


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## JohnBrown (10 Nov 2009)

For <£20 I think I will buy them. They can't be worse than my rusty Rolson! I'm a firmware writer, I can't justify spending hundreds of pounds just to make see-through wood shavings!

Thanks anyway for all the advice!

John


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## TobyB (11 Nov 2009)

Worth thinking about ... is the cheap option "upgradeable"? 

I was given an old rusty No 4. Tried "fettling" it a bit - rubbed off the worst of the rust from the sole and side with wet and dry on my float glass, sharpened the blade properly, tried to flatten the tip of the chip breaker, etc. NOT impressed by the results ... chatter, tear-out, etc.

Just put some Sheffield into it, by way of a new Clifton blade and chipbreaker. Transformed! Full stroke thick strips without even pushing hard, or wispy translucent shavings and a smooth surface. 











If "cheap" planes that don't work too well can be upgraded in this fashion, might well be worth the money?


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## bugbear (11 Nov 2009)

TobyB":s7z4ctp9 said:


> Worth thinking about ... is the cheap option "upgradeable"?
> 
> If "cheap" planes that don't work too well can be upgraded in this fashion, might well be worth the money?



You're still left with poorly shaped handles, poor fit of frog to casting, excess backlash on the adjustments...

The cost of a "full" upgrade is high - if you replace blade, cap-iron and handles, you're getting to the point where a simple new purchase looks sensible.

I would recommend either buying a well-chose second hand plane, and tuning it without replacing anything, or buying a LN/LV/Clifton.

BugBear


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## TobyB (11 Nov 2009)

Agreed if I was buying and could afford - that's why I've got a Clifton 5 1/2 and a LV BUJ - but I can see that from Johns point of view they, or Matthews suggestions, might be worth a go, having seen the difference £50 of blade/iron made to my plane. I wouldn't buy a Clifton/LN No 4 I don't think - but having been given this plane I've now got a useful tool for very little extra outlay (the handles aren't bad and there's little backlash - it's not like a £20 modern thing from B&Q) ...


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## jlawrence (11 Nov 2009)

I can see the point in buying the likes of LN et al, but I disagree that it's a good move for someone who is just starting out with hand tools - ie still learning a) how to plane something, and b) how a plane works. That person would be me .

For a modest outlay you get an old plane (or even a cheap new one) and start learning what's what. You then change a few bits and learn what makes the biggest improvements - ie what are the most important parts of the plane. If you buy a 'good' plane straight off then how do you know if it's set up correctly - you don't, you have to rely on the manufacturer setting it up.


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## frugal (12 Nov 2009)

jlawrence":2gb6di1e said:


> I can see the point in buying the likes of LN et al, but I disagree that it's a good move for someone who is just starting out with hand tools - ie still learning a) how to plane something, and b) how a plane works. That person would be me .



The only problem with that is you never know if it is your technique that is causing problems or the tool. It was not until I tried David C's plane at Yandles that I realised how badly set up mine was and that I needed to fettle it.

Even now I do not know if the tear out I get is from a poor tool or poor technique.

Of course if you buy an expensive plane you will not initially know if your problems are due to your technique or how you have adjusted the tool. My L/N block plane was a joy to use until I first sharpened it, then my poor sharpening technique caused me problems and the performance of the tool went down, but it was not until I got better at sharpening that I realised.

All of this rambling is just to say: Why should it be an either/or question. The quality of the result will depend (amongst other things) on the build quality of the tool, the way that the tool has been adjusted and the way that the tool is used. You can not target one aspect in isolation, you need to improve on all of them to a certain level (and a certain level of experience) before you can say which one is causing you problems.

This is one of the reasons that learning from more experienced people is often the best way to go.


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## Charlotte (12 Nov 2009)

Sorry to butt in in a thead, but I'm going to go plane shopping shortly. My budget is car boot due to woeful work situation at the moment.

I want a block plane and a smoother or jack and am wondering about wooden planes, though I have never used them. I've seen check lists for second hand planes but don't own a portable known flat surface and do not fancy wandering around a boot sale with a file of web wisdom anyhow. I was going to opt for the rustiest with the shortest irons on the basis that a short iron=hard life=good tool but would love to hear some other suggestions.

Many thanks


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## woodbloke (12 Nov 2009)

Charlotte":oihhuoo1 said:


> Sorry to butt in in a thead, but I'm going to go plane shopping shortly. My budget is car boot due to woeful work situation at the moment.
> 
> I want a block plane and a smoother or jack and am wondering about wooden planes, though I have never used them. I've seen check lists for second hand planes but don't own a portable known flat surface and do not fancy wandering around a boot sale with a file of web wisdom anyhow. I was going to opt for the rustiest with the shortest irons on the basis that a short iron=hard life=good tool but would love to hear some other suggestions.
> 
> Many thanks


Wandering around a car booty is fraught with danger unless you know what you are doing...you might pick up something half decent or a load of tat. Much better to contact Ray Isles (by 'fone :wink: ) here or somewhere like Penny Farthing Tools here in Salisbury. A decent jack or smoother in good condition at PFT (and there are lots of them) can be had for around £25ish depending on usage, block planes are harder to come by. There's an auction on at the moment for a DX60 (which _was_ mine, so I can vouch for it) but that's now probably out of your price bracket  - Rob


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## lurker (12 Nov 2009)

Charlotte,

IMHO Car boot planes & a bit of a fettle are the best deal unless you go to +£150 new level.

Most you see will be Stanley 4 & 4.5s - I'd rarely pay more than £5 for a reasonable one. If you know what you are doing you can pick up jems.
For example a Record SS will look much like a stanley bog standard but are worth 10X the amount. And works 5x as well. one marked record are better than Stanleys (usually)

Woodies are fine - sometimes booters think they are old & rare again £5 would be a max for me.

Try to "see past" the rust for cracks otherwise you can't go far wrong at £5 even if the Sole is unuseable the bits will come in useful.

In my experience a boot sale will yield nothing 4 times out of 5 but the 5th one you will strike gold.


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## Vann (13 Nov 2009)

jlawrence":36nlkxjo said:


> ...If you buy a 'good' plane straight off then how do you know if it's set up correctly - you don't, you have to rely on the manufacturer setting it up.


I don't think this argument holds water !!

If you're going to struggle with the minor amount of fettling/setting-up required on a LV/LN/Clifton, how the heck are you going to manage all the fettling required on a cheap plane?

In my case, I bought a new Stanley in 1973 and could never master it. I thought it was just me (I still have it in it's original box in the garage - almost unused). Last year I splashed out on a LV LAJ. Boy what a revelation :shock: I can plane !!!

Cheers, Vann.


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## woodbloke (13 Nov 2009)

Vann":5hfnsa02 said:


> In my case, I bought a new Stanley in 1973 and could never master it. I thought it was just me (I still have it in it's original box in the garage - almost unused). Last year I splashed out on a LV LAJ. Boy what a revelation :shock: I can plane !!!
> 
> Cheers, Vann.


V- put a straight edge accross the sole of the Stanley...I saw one of a similar vintage where the sole was concave by about 2mm :shock: in the centre.
Agree though about the LV LA jack :wink: - Rob


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## jlawrence (13 Nov 2009)

Vann":hcpkua7y said:


> I don't think this argument holds water !!
> If you're going to struggle with the minor amount of fettling/setting-up required on a LV/LN/Clifton, how the heck are you going to manage all the fettling required on a cheap plane?




Perhaps I worded it wrongly.
When you're just starting out (like me), you have no idea what a well setup plane should work like. So it doesn't matter whether it's a tiny amount of fettling or a big amount that needs doing - you still don't have a clue where to start.
As pointed out, there's probably nothing better than having someone with experience help you learn.
I don't have the time available to take a course in order to learn, so I need to find out the hard way - as well as pick things up from asking questions at shows/bashes when/if I can get to one.
I'd rather rip to bits a cheap plane in order to start learning how it works (or should work) than risk wrecking a good plane.


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## Smudger (14 Nov 2009)

When I started bodging seriously I began by buying cheap planes and fettling them. People told me not to bother, to buy at least one quality plane to start with. I didn't, of course, believe them.
It didn't, really, go that well, until I bought a properly well set-up Stanley Jack off ebay. That gave me some clues, but it was being taken into someone else's workshop to use some quality planes - Lie Nielsens, Spiers infills etc - that I really understood.
Then I could go back to the old Records and Stanleys, and work on them to make them good. And they can be.
I think that to start with an old rust magnet with not much to go on is harder work than it needs to be.


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## Benchwayze (14 Nov 2009)

If you are going to attempt fettling a Stanley or Record plane, you might be better advised to find a pre-WWII model on eBay. 

You will probably have to fettle, but in my view you might as well invest the work into a decent casting, and probably a decent blade. 

But be careful. I bought a low-front knob No. 4. It was an old plane for sure, and it was a well-balanced tool, with a comfortable tote. 

Close examination proved it to be a bit of a mongrel though and parts didn't match up the date on the casting. The worst feature is the 'opposite thread' on the adjuster mechanism. I am used to clockwise motion to advance the blade, and even fettled, this oldie frustrates me a lot as I keep forgetting. So it doesn't get much use. 

Edit... I think any decent oldie can be serviceable. As long as the sole is flat at the toe, around the mouth and at the heel, usually they will perform, given that a effort is put into sharpening.

You can get a metal plane looking brand new, but for general work it isn't absolutely necessary. It is nice to prove that they can produce shavings as fine as any of the expensive planes.. But again, is it necessary? 

Regards
John


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## maltrout512 (16 Nov 2009)

Just an idea, why not buy a second hand one. I have bought most of mine from a tool shop (2nd hand) in Yapton, Leeside I think their name is. As you are in Surrey a shortish trip down there and see their line up. No 4 Stanleys from about £15. I bought a stan/Bailey no 3 for £6.00. In poor condition, New handles cost £16 and a new blade. A couple of hours later I had it all cleaned and back together and taking a shaving off oak down to .7 mm. IMO I'm more than pleased with that.


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## Smudger (16 Nov 2009)

JB - I've just cottoned on that you are in Surrey; in Wallington there is the Old Tool Shop - the stock is quite variable, but I've picked up a number of planes there. Open on some evenings and all day Saturdays, on Stafford Rod opposite Sainsburys, next to the Public Hall. If you want I can pop in and see what he's got in.


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## Dibs-h (17 Nov 2009)

woodbloke":3k7c1v9v said:


> Much better to contact Ray Isles (by 'fone :wink: )  here




I bought one off him last Nov at Harrogate - very good value for money for a 1st plane or 3.


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## Smudger (17 Nov 2009)

Dibs-h":kuq2iz1i said:


> woodbloke":kuq2iz1i said:
> 
> 
> > Much better to contact Ray Isles (by 'fone :wink: )  here
> ...




Any idea what his prices for a Record 5 1/2 are?


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## brian68 (17 Nov 2009)

big soft moose":4ul190c2 said:


> matthewwh":4ul190c2 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are after a cheap but sensible plane and can hold on for a few weeks I may have an alternative for you.
> ...



www.toolmanonline.co.uk has already got these planes in stock, I emailed them and comfirmed, they also said next week they have the rebate block plane arriving and the edge trimming plane along with a different look block from what they have in already!


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## matthewwh (17 Nov 2009)

Hi Brian,

Your link has been caught in the spam trap I'm afraid, it stops after you've posted a few more times. 

here's the link

I'm surprised he went for the edging plane as they only do one rather than a pair which makes it a bit useless. I mentioned it to the factory and they sent me an email a few days later saying that they were unavailable at present. 

I did however go for the rebate block which looks like a really useful bit of kit as well as the spokeshave and some lovely little brass mallets that they do as well.

The latest news is that we have had a chat with TNT about faster shipping so they should be available at the beginning of December, just in time for our two week long free UK shipping offer!


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## AndyT (18 Nov 2009)

So who are Toolman? They may well be a wonderful firm giving excellent service - but if they are, they need to rethink their web presence!

Following Brian's link and looking at their website I found the following:

- There is no postal address. The Terms and Conditions page says they are in Sheffield, but that's a bit vague.

- There is no phone number.

- There is no email address - only a web form.

So I for one won't be placing any orders with them.


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## DaveL (18 Nov 2009)

AndyT":36jfbt88 said:


> - There is no email address - only a web form.





Toolman web site":36jfbt88 said:


> Please email us at [email protected]


but it did take some digging to find it.


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## SVB (18 Nov 2009)

Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)

S


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## aesmith (19 Nov 2009)

SVB":rjthbjpc said:


> Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)
> 
> S


Correct, they're breaking the law if they don't. It doesn't just apply to online shops either, it also applies to any web site that's promoting a business even if it doesn't accept electronic orders.


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## ali27 (24 Nov 2009)

Those planes at toolmanonline look really nice. Still a
bit too expensive for me. There isn't much info about
the planes other than 50% thicker blade.

I am in the market for a no6 plane. I think it is called ''fore
plane''.

A few months ago I bought a stanley bailey no4. I have been
learning a lot about sharpening and tuning. I think I can now 
get a plane working ok, not superb yet.

Was going to buy the ''faithfull no6'' as it is cheap and looks nice.
Unfortunately amazon(UK) don't ship it to the Netherlands.

I don't care a lot about looks, but I do like nice wood handles.

O by the way I am Ali from the Netherlands. I want to build 
saz/baglama(stringed instrument middle east). That is why
I am learning about woodworking.

Nice to meet you all.


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## Smudger (24 Nov 2009)

Hi Ali, welcome to the forum.
We all look forward to seeing photographs of your progress!


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## Philipp (25 Nov 2009)

Those "new, good and nevertheless cheap" planes from China are also available at

http://www.fine-tools.com/einhand.htm#ziel300030

and

http://www.fine-tools.com/eputz4.htm#ziel300034


There sold under the name Juuma. Prices seem to be reasonable.

Regards
Philipp


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## ali27 (25 Nov 2009)

> Hi Ali, welcome to the forum.
> We all look forward to seeing photographs of your progress!



Thanks Smudger. I am still yet trying to learn the skills required. So 
I think it will take quite some time. 

I will definitely post photographs of any progress just to brag 



> Those "new, good and nevertheless cheap" planes from China are also available at
> 
> xxxx
> 
> ...



Thanks for the links Philipp. 

Yes those prices seem reasonable. The no4 looks nice. I couldn't find
the no6.

I understand that Mr Matthewwh is going to sell these planes as well
in a few weeks. I will wait and see.

What about the new Kunz plane? Looks well made:

http://tinyurl.com/y8rgrpk

Greetings,

Ali


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## Philipp (27 Nov 2009)

ali27":1lnfathk said:


> What about the new Kunz plane? Looks well made:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/y8rgrpk
> 
> ...




Hi Ali, 

the new Kunz No. 4 is just below the Juuma at fine-tools.com.

It was constructed by a highly appreciated member of a German woodworking forum. The feature that most strikingly differs from most other models is the adjuster. It does not work "inverted" like the Norris-adjuster, but works more intuitive: move it to the left and the iron moves to the left, too, and vice versa.

But it is not cheap plane, so it does not fit into this thread.

Best regards
Philipp


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## dannykaye (29 Nov 2009)

has anyone tried their No 1 plane? at £85 it looks interesting and SWMBO is contemplating getting me it for xmas. However, it looks too good to be true, Amazon sell it too btw

Danny


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## brian68 (6 Dec 2009)

aesmith":a93xkqs5 said:


> SVB":a93xkqs5 said:
> 
> 
> > Aren't on-line shops supposed to give a postal address / registered business etc? (Probably phone number recommended also?)
> ...



I'm going to start a big debate here, I know it *sigh*
AndyT, DaveL, SVB, Aesmith.. Question for you: Have you ever tried getting the phone number and Address for the likes of Google, Paypal and Ebay ..it's next to impossible, how do _they_ get away with it? Tell me that doesn't take longer than "the norm" to get hold of?


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## jlawrence (8 Dec 2009)

Google +1(650) 253-0000
Ebay 0844 41 43 019
paypal 08707 307 191


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## aesmith (9 Dec 2009)

Everything other than that phone number is well hidden on Paypal that's for sure. Do they get away with it because they're not a UK company?

On their "About Us" page ...

_"PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A is duly licenced as a Luxembourg credit institution in the sense of Article 2 of the law of 5 April 1993 on the financial sector as amended and is under the prudential supervision of the Luxembourg supervisory authority, the Commission de Surveillance du Secteur Financier, with registered office in L-1150 Luxembourg. Since the service is limited to E-money, which does not qualify as a deposit or an investment service in the sense of the Law, customers of PayPal are not protected by the Luxembourg deposit guarantee schemes provided by the Association pour la Garantie des Dépôts Luxembourg (AGDL).

PayPal Inc. (which is a parent company of PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A) was acquired by eBay in October 2002, and is located in California, USA."_


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## aesmith (9 Dec 2009)

Opps a bit more digging (so I don't retract my "well hidden" comment ...

On Paypal's "About Us" subsection "Legal Mentions" ....

_"The PayPal service is offered by:
PayPal (Europe) S.à r.l. & Cie, S.C.A. (“PayPal Europe”)
5th Floor
22-24 Boulevard Royal
L-2449, Luxembourg
(+352) 27 302 143 (Local language customer support is available via our Service Centre)"_


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## AndyT (9 Dec 2009)

Brian

I don't disagree with you - phoning the companies you mention is clearly not easy. But they are not trying to be traders in the way that Toolmanonline is trying to be. 

If you want to be an on-line trader, you ought to be open and clear about 
- who you are, 
- where you are, and 
- how customers or Trading Standards Officers can come and find you if they need to.


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## como (9 Dec 2009)

I remember the name toolman and his lack of contact details mentioned in an old thread. Did a quick search and came up with this...

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=26349


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## AndyT (9 Dec 2009)

Well fancy that!

If that's the same guy I'm surprised he's kept going so long, but I know where I'll be spending my money.


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## brian68 (9 Dec 2009)

That old thread.. a one man band? So what! Didnt Marks and Sparks and D.C Cook (remember them) start life on a market stall? Oh and Alan Sugar!

Paypal, Ebay AND google are in EVERY sense like the small comanies... trying to make money, even this one wth the ads.. and where's the address on this site? Your all still writing on here..

To the guy who replied with the telephone numbers I asked to find.. thats a 2 day gap!


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## jimi43 (10 Dec 2009)

I am a great believer in Clifton and Lie Nielsen planes (et al) as I have used ones that more affluent friends have and if I were using hand tools for a living these would be my weapons of choice.

Given that my woodworking is more amateur I started out with research and then went searching bootfairs. There really isn't much to lose if you don't pay silly money to tool dealers (you know the sort...the ones with steel wool in their pockets) :wink: 

Most of my gems have come from younger couples sadly selling grandpa's tools...you have to be quick (and early) but if you stick to the older Records and Stanleys you can't really go wrong.

As others have said...if you only pay a couple of quid then you have spares if you need them.

I have a beautiful old Record 4 and a 5 which were about a fiver and even an older No.7 which cost me the astronomical amount of £30!

If your eye is not that good take a set square to check the sole for flatness and square with the sides...look for light rust but not too much pitting...old Sweetheart or Crucible blades....and the rarer SS (Stay Set) Records.

I work with my tools so I restore and repaint them....I am not a collector nor a dealer so it is to protect them not to keep originality...

This is my £30 Record SS No.7 she is a darling!
































But much more important to me is to ensure that the sole is square to the sides...which this one was...not even a glimmer of light showing!

Until I am in a financial position to maybe check out an LN....I think this one does all I need...shooting fronts and backs for guitars...

If I made tables for a living every day of the week...well it may get upgraded.

Jim


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## andyw (10 Dec 2009)

I've been thinking about getting a couple of new planes for a while and have been following the threads on these 'good and reasonably cheap planes' . Can't remember where I read it, but they are branded Wood River in the US are available from Woodcraft:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2021170/2021170.aspx

I've a colleague in the US & visit regularly so buying there is possible. I've just received the block plane and have the No 4 arriving next week...just in time for Xmas!

Anyway opened up the block plane package today - arrives in a lovely little wooden box with the plane wrapped in a sealed bag with some lubricant inside. Wiped it down and gave it a try - maple shavings galore out of the box! Then checked for sole flatness and seemed spot on, sole nicely smooth, as are the sides; feels nicely weighted and I'm really pleased for $69 - I'm no plane expert, but it's far superior than either the faithful or later record I have tried (and failed) to use so far. Again, I'm no expert, so wouldn't even know where to start to fettle them.

Can't wait to get the No 4 now.


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## matthewwh (10 Dec 2009)

I've just had precisely the same experience with a pallet of them.






Way better than I had even dreamt of hoping for. The low angle block and low angle rebating block are particularly lovely - working on the photos now.


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## bugbear (11 Dec 2009)

jimi43":nrd00upa said:


> But much more important to me is to ensure that the sole is square to the sides...which this one was...not even a glimmer of light showing!



Of course, most people only need ONE plane where the side is square to the sole, the one they shoot with.

In fact, though it's nice, you don't even need that. If you always use the same plane on the same shooting board, you can easily tune the (wooden, easily tweaked) shooting board to compensate for any small out-of-squareness in the plane.

Still, there's no downside to a plane being nicely square, so why not?

I note the rather lovely engineering square you're using to check your SS #07 - another car boot find?!

BugBear


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## bugbear (11 Dec 2009)

matthewwh":2ntebnkp said:


> I've just had precisely the same experience with a pallet of them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I suspect they'll be a lot of interest in the blade quality (cheese or otherwise). Any requirment for a (circa 30 quid) after market blade would spoil the look of the price.

BugBear


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## andyw (11 Dec 2009)

Matthew, I think you'll do very well with them & good luck with the venture.
Any ideas on selling prices?


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## jlawrence (11 Dec 2009)

prices are on the website.
Mathew, can you get some No 7's in the next batch ?


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## matthewwh (11 Dec 2009)

The blades are absolutely spot on, I honed one yesterday evening and it's a smidge harder than O1 but the edge taking is absolutely superb. Apparently they distil the quench water to soften it which removes the problem of regional variation in water hardness that had been the cause of my concern.

I will look into getting some steeper blades and toothed blades as aftermarket options for the block planes though.

Prices are up on the website here and we are uploading the photos today. 

They don't do a No.7, 8, 4-1/2 or 5-1/2 yet but I understand they have plans to develop them in the future, if they do we will certainly be stocking them.


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## ali27 (11 Dec 2009)

Hi Matthew.

Will you also be offering replacement blades for the no4 and bigger
planes? 

I am thinking that they will be a lot cheaper than the Nielsen,Hock and Clifton replacement blades.

Having an extra blade(with backbevel) for hardwoods would be a good idea, no?

Ali


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## matthewwh (11 Dec 2009)

Hi Ali,

Absolutely, now I know how good they are I'll get some in with the next order.


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## ali27 (11 Dec 2009)

matthewwh":31og25t8 said:


> Hi Ali,
> 
> Absolutely, now I know how good they are I'll get some in with the next order.



That's good news. 

Matthew are you going to post pictures on this forum? I have seen
the pictures on your site, but it's difficult to really judge. They do look
nice shiney!


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## andyw (11 Dec 2009)

Hi Matthew,
would you recommend the scary sharp system for sharpening these blades & which Kell honing guide - I was thinking no 2.
BTW - the plane prices look very competitive even compared to the US.


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## matthewwh (11 Dec 2009)

Hi Andy,

Absolutely, the scary sharp system and the kell guides work very well together, the No.2 or the No.3 Mk.2 are both excellent for plane irons.


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## woodbloke (11 Dec 2009)

The K111 is the one to get :wink: - Rob


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## andyw (11 Dec 2009)

grrr...hate you...resistance is useless...order placed.


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## ali27 (11 Dec 2009)

andyw":26kbattk said:


> grrr...hate you...resistance is useless...order placed.



HAHAHAH. I am thinking of ordering the No6 and spokeshave.


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## woodbloke (11 Dec 2009)

andyw":27leueyl said:


> grrr...hate you...resistance is useless...order placed.


Weclome :lol: ...if you've ordered the KIII, have a trawl back through my stuff as I did a review of it recently (and how I use it) on this forum. Without re-raking old ground, it's very good indeed when you know how to use it correctly - Rob


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## ali27 (11 Dec 2009)

Matthew can you post some pictures of the planes on the forum?

The pictures on your site are nice, but I can't see the much details 
of the planes.

And a picture of the spokeshave would be great too!

Thanks if you have time to do it.

Ali


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## jlawrence (11 Dec 2009)

Dropped some big hints to swmbo about a No 6 & 5, fingers crossed that they may turn up under the tree


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## jimi43 (12 Dec 2009)

> I note the rather lovely engineering square you're using to check your SS #07 - another car boot find?!
> 
> BugBear



You have a good eye there BugBear mate! Yes indeed....£10 for this brace if I remember correctly...and I was bitching and moaning about that price at the time....







I now need to go find an old 1938 micrometer to go in that little recess in the purple velvet there...that ALWAYS bugs me when I open that box...like someone has nicked it overnight!!  

Carrying on the bootfair theme.....No. 5 1/2 on the left...a fiver...and the No.4 on the right...£2....sharpened but awaiting some minor tweeking!






So they are out there...and with a little care in selection and tuning they can be wonderful mid-range workhorses...with another hundred years in them. 

There are many resources on plane restoration on the Net....let Google be your friend here but this is one I found...HERE

Stanley and Record (I like Record) are easiest simply because of their popularity and they come up all over bootfairs....

I have yet to add a Hock conversion...teetering on the edge of doing that yet....as I am not sure it is rather like putting alloys on a LADA but I have heard good reports and bad on trying this....the jury is out for me so far!

Jim


Jim


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## AlbertoA (12 Dec 2009)

matthewwh":3t920tsm said:


> I've just had precisely the same experience with a pallet of them.
> 
> 
> Way better than I had even dreamt of hoping for. The low angle block and low angle rebating block are particularly lovely - working on the photos now.



I could not r esist and ordered one this morning... block rebating plane... waiting for others' opinions to get a N.3 too...
Alberto


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## matthewwh (12 Dec 2009)

ali27":psvwux74 said:


> Matthew can you post some pictures of the planes on the forum?
> 
> Ali



Here's a handful, I only had about an hour so I had to concentrate on capturing the shots for the website, I'll try and get some more dismantled shots and closeups etc done in the next day or two. 





The only way to remove the blade from the rebating block - you need to remove the brass screw that the cap engages on.





The only 'internals' shot I have so far, nice casting quality on the steel and bronze components and general fit and finish is excellent. The black mark on the frog is a low spot on the casting but there is plenty of neatly machined contact area for the iron to bed on.





The only shot I have of the spokeshave so far, a very comfortably balanced tool though. 





Front threequarter of the No. 5, again good castings and machining, the only unexpected thing I'm not so keen on is the mahogany finish on the handles which will scratch and show the pale grasstree wood underneath - if it were me I'd sand it off and refinish them. 

There might be the odd tweak required - squeezing up the arms on the Y lever so that they engage positively with the adjuster knob, (less than half a turn of play on all the ones I've looked at so far), polishing out the odd scratch on the lever cap etc but it's all two minute stuff. The big jobs that are a real pain to correct like an acceptably flat sole and a properly heat treated iron are all as they should be.


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## wizer (12 Dec 2009)

I'd love to see how those spokeshaves compare to my boggs shaves. They're obviously of the same design. I also fancy a 5 1/2 if you have that size.


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## woodbloke (12 Dec 2009)

I do like the look of this stuff...it oozes quality for a very reasonable price. I'm sorely tempted by that rebating block, it's a lot less than the LN equivalent (by close to £100 if memory serves) 
If I didn't have a decent compliment of planes that I was happy with, I think these latest additions to Matthew's arsenal of shinies would definitely get me slithering down the 'Sl.... 8-[ - Rob


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## Alf (13 Dec 2009)

I'm sitting on my hands here too, 'cos it's certainly tempting my curiosity. 'Course I don't actually _have_ a functioning #3... :-k


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## matthewwh (13 Dec 2009)

Passaround???????


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## wizer (13 Dec 2009)




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## dannykaye (13 Dec 2009)

Alf":1qigg77f said:


> I'm sitting on my hands here too, 'cos it's certainly tempting my curiosity. 'Course I don't actually _have_ a functioning #3... :-k



I have a spare if you are interested, I have two uk stanleys a shiny still in box one and a beat up old one that is one of the nicest planes I own...


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## Alf (13 Dec 2009)

Thanks, Danny, but I have a UK Stanley with its box too - I found out the reason it was still in its box... (hence the non-functioning comment). Not that I actually _need_ a #3 at all; it's just a feeble and transparent excuse. :lol: 

The trouble with a passaround is _you have to give it back_. I'm not good at that bit; the nice gentleman at the Post Office has to threaten to break my fingers if I don't let go of the parcel... But for those with greater willpower, sounds like a good plan, Matthew.

Cheers, Alf


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## rileytoolworks (13 Dec 2009)

Oooh. Passaround.
Count me in!

Adam. (Trying to stay away from the add to basket button on Workshop Heaven (but losing the fight))


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## matthewwh (13 Dec 2009)

Hi Adam,

I've just kicked off the thread for the passaround here.


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## Alf (16 Dec 2009)

As I said, I have *no* willpower...  








 

 



In an attempt to justify it, it's kinda a Christmas present, so I won't be getting any further than this just yet, but initial impressions are favourable. Hefty beast, thick iron and cap iron, surprisingly well finished, holds much promise.

Cheers, Alf


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## Paul Chapman (16 Dec 2009)

Looks nice 8) I presume it's the #3 - one of my favourite size planes. 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## DaveL (16 Dec 2009)

Alf,

Looks like a good usable tool, not cheap as the thread title says, looking forward to seeing the shavings. 8)


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## ali27 (16 Dec 2009)

Alf, I ordered the no6 and spokeshave. Will try to review 
the no6. Definitely will post pics.

Are you going to sand the handles? Matthew said they have a mahogany
finish and will scratch.

Looks like a real quality tool.

Regards,

Ali


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## Alf (17 Dec 2009)

Paul, yep. It may be your preference for it got me wondering. Yeah, that could work... I'll blame you. :wink: :lol:

Ali, dunno about the handles. As Matthew says, they do show the dings - this one came with one already and it does stand out. As with the rest, reckon I'll see how they go in use and tweak and modify as required. Be interested to see more of the spokeshave, btw.

Cheers, Alf


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## woodbloke (17 Dec 2009)

Going by look of Alf's pics, the 'big three' are going to feel the pinch methinks. I wonder if it's worth making a replacement set of handles for these planes, or even Matthew suppling them with alternative handles (much the same as the CI Fall chisels)
Just a thought - Rob


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## matthewwh (17 Dec 2009)

If I get a spare moment I'll have a tinker with the handles on one of them just to see what's underneath and then post some photos.


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## Trizza (17 Dec 2009)

Darn it all! My wallet is feeling reaaallly conspicuous in my pocket right now - "set me free! use me! you know you need a good little block plane!" it says..

Would definitely love to hear about peoples experiences with these!


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## matthewwh (5 Feb 2010)

Cue drumroll.....



Cue stripper music.....



Ladies please avert your eyes....



Here she is....















Not too bad really, the closest thing in terms of colour and figure is probably beech.


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## woodbloke (5 Feb 2010)

Nicely done Matthew... - Rob


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## Modernist (5 Feb 2010)

Not prairie pampass grass then :?:


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## matthewwh (6 Feb 2010)

Yep, it's the same yukka plant handles with the mahogany laquer stripped off. 

Personally I prefer the au-naturel grasstree to the laquered finish, I might have a word with them next week and see if they can skip the laquer for us or replace it with something clear.


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## Modernist (6 Feb 2010)

I think you're right. You could be excused for even thinking it looked a bit like cherry :twisted: :twisted:

Honed up the No 6 this afternoon and it is excellent.


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## Trizza (7 Feb 2010)

Definitely - those handles look much nicer


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## Alf (7 Feb 2010)

Crumbs. Does look a bit nekkid... But there is grain under there. Hmm, I may be moved to have a go at mine now, but possibly refinish with a less muddy stain. Not too keen on pale handles for some reason. Thanks, Matthew.


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## turnerbc (18 Feb 2010)

Hi all,
I have just made a big mistake and bought a Dakota No3 from Rutlands. Seemed a bargain - £20 off. Looked at Workshop Heaven's chinese planes and at Wood River planes and Toolmans . Comparing photos they looked virtually identical. My No3 Dakota is on its way back to Rutlands one hour after taking the plane apart. I found the frog was 1.5mm offset to one side as the threaded holes in the bed had been drilled 'off centre'. The frog had then been mounted at an angle and the blade and cap iron ground out of square so that it looked as though the blade was central to the throat. Might have to bite the bullet and buy a Clifton no3 unless any Mathew can reasure me about Workshop Heaven's chinese no3 ?
Regards,
Barry


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## pedder (18 Feb 2010)

turnerbc":2u49l4ie said:


> Hi all,
> I have just made a big mistake and bought a Dakota No3 from Rutlands. Seemed a bargain - £20 off. Looked at Workshop Heaven's chinese planes and at Wood River planes and Toolmans . Comparing photos they looked virtually identical. My No3 Dakota is on its way back to Rutlands one hour after taking the plane apart. I found the frog was 1.5mm offset to one side as the threaded holes in the bed had been drilled 'off centre'. The frog had then been mounted at an angle and the blade and cap iron ground out of square so that it looked as though the blade was central to the throat. Might have to bite the bullet and buy a Clifton no3 unless any Mathew can reasure me about Workshop Heaven's chinese no3 ?
> Regards,
> Barry



I think there is a reason why some retailer are later than others with these chiniese planes. They did their home work at the incoming goods inspection.

Cheers Pedder


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## Alf (18 Feb 2010)

Sounds horrible, Barry. Dunno if this might help with the Workshop Heaven #3. And Chris' (waterhead37) thoughts on the Clifton #3 too.

Cheers, Alf


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## turnerbc (18 Feb 2010)

Thanks for the links Alf. Its given me food for thought. I may well save up for a Clifton No3.
Regards,
Barry.


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## Paul Chapman (18 Feb 2010)

turnerbc":3sqzn2lm said:


> I may well save up for a Clifton No3.



You won't regret it - the Clifton #3 is a fabulous plane.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Aled Dafis (18 Feb 2010)

Paul Chapman":18sje50i said:


> turnerbc":18sje50i said:
> 
> 
> > I may well save up for a Clifton No3.
> ...



Ditto.

Definately one of my favourites (along with the #5 1/2 and the #7)

Cheers

Aled


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