# RobertMP Sideboard [Beginner] Final Submission [Complete]



## RobertMP (17 Jun 2007)

Not a lot to show so far as I've been away for a week and only just getting back to things 

The idea is to keep updating this thread as I do more parts and hopefully see it through to completion at some later date (later than I expect based on past form!)

Anyway the sideboard is for use in our conservatory and will be subject to a bit of heat. I bought the beech for it some time back and planks for the top have been in the conservatory acclimatising. They were also getting in the way so I have started with the top panel so that it can be stood up out of the way while I do the more interesting bits!

The boards. 






Planer. 





1st pass. Was hoping to end up with 24mm thickness but the boards don't seem flat enough.





all flat on one side after 3 passes. Then edged one edge on all of them.





Slit the short piece into 2 for the ends then thicknessed everything. 





finished pieces. Came out to 22.5mm time all the sawn face was gone so not too bad. 





Marked the edges for biscuit positions and made a simple jig to set the cut length when routing the slots. 





ready for some glue! 





I tend to be a bit heavy handed with the glue . Also learnt that glue is a pain to get off the bessey clamp bars with all that knurling - hence the plastic bags.





Watching glue dry. Put a steel rule across and it was nice and flat.





I made a quick cutting jig for the router thinking that would give me a nice straight square edge. It almost did but wasn't perfect so I gave the panel one light pass on the planer afterwards to make it true. 





I don't have anything long enough to clamp the ends on so after cutting the biscuit slots I made some oak wedges and fixed end stops to the table. Apply clamps to the wedges... and it worked and squeezed the glue out! More plastic bags to stop me gluing it to the bench. 





So plenty of cleaning up to do now. Joints seem fairly flush and I could level it with the 1/2 sheet sander. Now might be a good time to ask how I *should* level it off? I don't have a scraper - should I get one?

Once ready I thought I might give it a coat of sanding sealer with the idea it might help keep it stable until it gets a proper finish. Finish will probably be a polyurethane lacquer when I get that far. Sound like a good idea?

To be continued.....


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## Waka (17 Jun 2007)

What I always do when gluing up is wipe the excess glue off with a damp colth before it drys, I find it harder to remove when dry.

Correct me if I'm wrong but have you added breadboard ends? If so have you glued these in position?


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jun 2007)

Robert, if you have glued those breadboard ends you will almost certainly get problems. Wood expands and contracts across its width but hardly at all along its length, so there is going to be a conflict between the ends and the rest of the top. However, all is not lost. I would saw them off and re-fix them without glue, but using something like loose tongues, pegged, but with the holes in the tongues elongated so that the top can expand and contract across its width while the breadboard ends remain stationary.

Apart from that, it's looking good.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## DomValente (18 Jun 2007)

> have started with the top panel so that it can be stood up out of the way while I do the more interesting bits!



Robert store it flat if it's going to be a while.

Dom


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## RobertMP (18 Jun 2007)

> The man who never made a mistake, never made anything.



Didn't take me long :lol:

I think I'll correct the problem towards the end and leave it for now... be less painful then 

Think I chose the right category..... 'beginner'


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jun 2007)

Robert, I've never done breadboard ends but, giving it a bit more thought, I think the right way (or at least one way) to do it would be as follows. Groove the breadboard end and the table end to take loose tongues (these could be stopped or through grooves). Glue the tongue (plywood would make a good tongue) into the breadboard end. When this is dry, fit it to the table end and drill through the table and tongues for the pegs. You can do this from underneath if you don't want the pegs to show through the top. Remove and elongate the peg holes in the tongues, but leave one of the holes (roughly in the centre) and do not elongate this one. Re-fit, gluing in the pegs but don't glue the tongue or the groove. This should enable the top to expand and contract around the central peg without splitting.

As I say, I've never done one of these before so if I've got any of that wrong no doubt someone who has done it will come along and put us both right 

Hope this helps

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## RobertMP (18 Jun 2007)

I've just won a jet bandsaw on ebay so it looks like I may have a job lined up for it.

Obviously wrongly, I thought as the wood was well dried and growth rings were pretty straight across the board (quarter sawn?) it would be fairly stable as long as it was sealed against moisture. Does it expand from temperature , moisture or both?

I don't doubt that being glued is wrong and needs correcting. Just wondering in what way it would fail - breaking glue joint? distortion?


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## mr (18 Jun 2007)

I haven't ever done a table top so no direct experience but the theory goes that the top will expand and contract across it's width so if the ends are glued on the best that can happen is that the glue joint will break but I suspect that the top would pull itself apart parallel with but not necessarily along the "seams" of the edge lamination. The glue joint between planks being stronger than the wood probably the damage wil be to the wood rather than the glue joint. Of course the best that can happen really is nothing at all but that's probably not the case. 
Re your other question about leveling the top. You need to get the glue squeeze out off which I would have thought was quickest done with some kind of cabinet scraper. Veritas do a nice one which doesnt seem much more expensive than the Stanley version and being Veritas seems to be a better design. (It's base is longer so it's easier to control at start and end of cut) You could also use a normal diy stylee paint scraper, being careful not to dig into your top, or a cisel though that might be difficult to use over a table top - cranked chisel perhaps? After getting rid of the squeeze out you'll want to flatten the top and get the laminations to the same heigt unless your original thicknessing was spot on and your glue up miraculous  For that I would use a no 7 hand plane or longer. I would have thought sanding would take hours and risk not getting the finish you want, not to mention being noisy messy and leaving you with tingling fingers. Another method you might want to look at is the sort of sliding jig with a router in that I think Byron Black used to flatten his bench top (search the forum). The idea being that the jig allows the router to take a minute cut at a uniform depth all over the top. I would have thought you would have to hand plane it anyway after that but I could be wrong. 
Cheers Mike


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jun 2007)

RobertMP":3uflee5n said:


> Obviously wrongly, I thought as the wood was well dried and growth rings were pretty straight across the board (quarter sawn?) it would be fairly stable as long as it was sealed against moisture. Does it expand from temperature , moisture or both?
> 
> I don't doubt that being glued is wrong and needs correcting. Just wondering in what way it would fail - breaking glue joint? distortion?



Robert, if you look at any top made with breadboard ends you will find that the breadboard end is not level with the side. This is because of expansion and contraction. However well wood was dried and however it is finished, it will absorb and give out moisture. How much depends on the situation the piece is in. As your top will be in a conservatory it is likely that it will suffer from more extremes of temperature and humidity than if was in a normal room. Exactly how the top will move and what damage will result is difficult to predict. The best precaution is to design out any potential problems.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Lord Nibbo (18 Jun 2007)

Pauls writup is spot on with problems on breadboard ends.

Here are some pics of a coffee table I did earlier this year.









Only the centre had glue, and now some six months later the main body of the table top has shrunk at least an 1/8" leaving the breadboard ends sticking out on each side, now if I had glued the ends up completely there would be a split of at least 1/8" somewhere in the top.


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## woodbloke (19 Jun 2007)

The advice given so far has been bang on the money. If I were you I'd remove those breadboard ends much sooner rather than later....would save a lot of  - Rob


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## RobertMP (19 Jun 2007)

I've just been setting up my shiny new Jet JWBS-14 bandsaw and it is about ready to go. Cricket is getting interesting though so it may have to wait another day


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## RobertMP (21 Jun 2007)

Right two steps forward, one step back, a bit of work and I'm back to where I was 

I've bought 2 new toys this wek and am well impressed with both of them. I mentioned the bandsaw previously but have only just come to realise how useful it is! All those fiddly cuts are now easy. OK you don't get ultra precision but it does not take much to fettle things afterwards.

The other thing I bought was a Metabo random orbit sander. Sanding is so easy now! Should have bought one sooner. Anyway I digress..

I cut the ends off along the joint line but forgot to take a picture so this is a posed shot after the job was completed.





I used the ROS to level the joints before I cut the ends off. Didn't take very long as the alignment was quite good.





I needed to make slots in both pieces exactly the same distance from the face so I clamped a bit of angle iron onto the router. it was very secure.





I thought carefully about the techniques mentioned for holding the end piece in place but could not see me producing sufficient accuracy to get a closed joint. So I took advantage of the fact that the frame pieces will be covering the joint area and drilled for a screwed joint. The screws are in oversize holes so movement is possible. You can see the pilot holes in between the slots I cut. The 2 pieces at the back are balanced on the clamps just for the picture. A batten clamped to the panel helped with router stability.





I ran a strip trough the thicknesser until it was a tight fit in the slot then cut it to length. End pieces I changed the grain direction for more strength. They are all a couple of mm shorter than the slots.





Assembly. It was pretty rigid without the screws. A bit of blue colour came off the angle iron but it comes off easily.





Screws fitted.





The final joint was pretty near as flush as the original sanded glued joint. The panel is still a little over width (and I may trim it down) but is 2mm under the intended length - not that it matters at all.

Not as elegant a job as a joint with sliding pins but I'm happy with it.


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## MooreToolsPlease (21 Jun 2007)

With as many screws as you have used, will this not have a similar effect as before?
I have always been curious as to how much a table will expand and contract.
On my recent trip to New England, I visited a shaker village.
In the foyer there was 2 or 3 tables of about 8 feet by 3.
They had bread board ends, But the tennons extended to the extreme edges of the bread board end.
On all 3 of the tables, the table top extended 1/4" past the bread board end front and back!
It wasn't an original shaker piece, but I was amazed at just how much they had expanded!


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## RobertMP (21 Jun 2007)

Well it wouldn't surprise me to find I'm wrong again!

I did find a web site showing a similar method which gave me the idea. The screws are 3mm and not super tight. It is only 18 inches wide so shouldn't move much. I'm not convinced yet it will move at all but there is no point in talking to those more experienced if you don't listen


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## Paul Chapman (21 Jun 2007)

Hi Robert,

I think that looks as though it will be a lot better than you had it before. I would keep an eye on it and see how much movement you get. If it does move and looks as though the amount of movement has reached the limit set by the oversize screw holes and the clearance in the slots for the loose tongues, you could always take it apart, increase the size of the screw holes and reduce the width of the loose tenons.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## RobertMP (10 Jul 2007)

Well I'm back from a nice break in Scotland dodging the showers and taking lots of pictures. I made the legs and main frame rails for the sideboard before I went and took pictures so I'll get them uploaded in the next day or so.

Thought I'd better let you know I'm still around


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## RobertMP (13 Jul 2007)

Must be getting old - couldn't find the pictures I thought I took... so maybe I didn't :roll: 

So took a few more just now. Not really got back into it yet, think I'm still in a holiday frame of mind  

Keep thinking I should get around to a proper router table but the B & Q cheapie is doing the job. I threw away the plastic fence and just use a clamped on batten. The tenons were all cut this way using my home made mdf squaring sledge. This was taken with the router off and me just holding the work in place. Can't stand properly out of the way and take a picture 





Mortices I make by drilling accurate holes 12mm diameter at the ends of the mortice then removing the rest with a mortice chisel. Works really well - they are square to the work and the right length with not a lot of effort. Can't see me buying a morticer.





The axminster compound vice combined with a digital vernier makes it easy to repeat the process for more identical mortices. I line one pencil line up with a scratch on the jaw as a starting reference point... position the drill for the first hole using the slides - then all i have to do is wind one slide by 'x' millimeters for a correct length mortice.





The corner posts/legs are fabricated as i only had 25mm thick material. They all matched OK but I put the best matches at the front with the solid face on the visible cabinet ends.





Overview. The back horizontals are off while I make mortices for the verticals that divide the back panel.





Few more joints to make yet for the front components that are currently just sized blanks and lots of grooves for panels to rout.

While i think of it....
The drawer faces are a 'breadboard' style. From memory about 160mm deep. Do I need the same type of floating construction used on the top for something that narrow? Got a feeling the answer will be yes


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## RogerM (13 Jul 2007)

This has all the makings of a really nice piece. I just love the WIP threads. You can learn more here than in any book. Many thanks for the commentary and piccies Robert - much appreciated! FWIW, I think Paul's approach to breadboard ends is spot on. 

And I love your practical method of producing M&Ts - and without having to throw money at it.


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## RobertMP (23 Jul 2007)

Some more progress to report.

The rails for the doors have been cut, morticed and tenoned but are still to have the groove cut to receive the panel.

The divider pieces to go between the drawers and longer version to carry the middle door hinges are done.

I've made the drawer faces with their breadboard ends and glued them up with just a spot of glue at the middle point to allow the ends to move.

Some pictures..

As before mortice drilled to length and depth then just cleaned up with a chisel.





The in between bits!





Door rails and drawer fronts before assembly.


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## White House Workshop (23 Jul 2007)

I have 2 experiences of interest w.r.t breadboard ends...

1. A l-o-n-g time ago I made a breadboard end and glued it up solid. I sealed the whole top with about 5 coats of varnish, sanding between each coat, and the top was totally stable - until I stored it in an unheated storage area one winter. The finished top was 2' wide and 5' long. The wood managed to absorb moisture through all those layers of varnish and expanded enough to break the joints. By the time it had finished, the ends were almost 1" narrower than the long boards. I ripped the ends off and made new ones - fastened with a single dowel at the centre!

2. I made a large table for a friend - 2.3 metres long by 1.2 metres wide - and used air dried oak. This time I did proper breadboard ends! After 6 months in it's final location (the friend's kitchen) the long boards had shrunk enough to leave the breadboard ends overhanging by almost 3/4" on each corner.

Just shows how much it can move.


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## RobertMP (24 Jul 2007)

Shows it is worth listening to those that know what they are talking about 

Glad I did now!


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## RobertMP (28 Jul 2007)

I've made my grooves, cut up my 8 x 4 of veneered mdf and having got to a stage where I could dry fit enough bits together to see what it will look like i couldn't resist 

I've already realised the glue up will need some careful planning - I don't have enough hands or clamps to try it in one!







Stood the drawer faces in place and clamped the doors as near as they would go without trimming, and laid the top on. The top was made a while ago now and has sanding sealer on it so looks different.





Pleased to say i like it!





Plenty more to do before it is completed - plinth, top and bottom drawers etc. but it is still encouraging to see some real progress


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## RogerM (28 Jul 2007)

It's great when you dry fit stuff and the project starts to come to life isn't it. This is beginning to look like a really nice piece - you should feel very pleased with it!


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## Paul Chapman (28 Jul 2007)

That's looking nice, Robert.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Benchwayze (29 Jul 2007)

Robert,

Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, please excuse me if I appear to do so:

With regard to using quarter-sawn stock. That's good if you can get it of course, but some timber merchants will allow you to select a 'centre' or 'heart' board, from a through and through cut log. This amounts to the same thing as quarter-sawn, (You get the short ring pattern) but the boards are usually wider and still show the same figure.

Even then, if you join planks together, the ring pattern should go in opposing directions for each alternating board. (I.e. flip each alternate plank end for end!) That's about as best you can get to avoid warping.

Good luck with the project

John


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## Dave S (29 Jul 2007)

RobertMP":39absj6p said:


> Pleased to say i like it!



I like it too.  

Dave


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## RobertMP (30 Jul 2007)

Benchwayze":3lkel69e said:


> Robert,
> 
> Not wishing to teach you to suck eggs, please excuse me if I appear to do so:
> 
> ...



I know as much about egg sucking as I do about woodwork 

All advice taken on board. Never assume I know anything :lol:


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## RobertMP (7 Aug 2007)

I've now made the sides of the 3 drawer boxes. The easy part of the dovetails was done on the router with a dovetail shaped cutter.

Didn't take pictures at the time but I just held the cut piece on top of the edge and marked with a pencil all the material to be kept. Like this....





I then scribed the depth to cut down to and made all the angle cuts with a hacksaw! 18 tpi and it cuts thin straight and easy. I did try a tenon saw but felt clumsy.
Then I needed to get the scrap removed. I was all set to get going with the chisel when this idea occurred to me and it worked well  (picture recreated after the event - also shows the groove for the drawer base panel)
All I had left to do then was chisel out the little triangles that were left






Bit of cleaning up and the joints go together quite well 





Lots of sanding and assembly to do next. I hate sanding


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## RobertMP (16 Aug 2007)

Drawer boxes are put together now. Quite pleased with the joints on those.





Carcase is glued up now too and I've fitted the drawer runners since the picture was taken.





Doors are glued and sanded now too.





Main things still to do are the plinth drawer and the plinth sides.

Making progress


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## ByronBlack (16 Aug 2007)

Looking good. I like the approach to dovetails, they look very neat. Your progress however is frightening! I don't think i'll get my entry finished in the deadline.


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## Dave S (16 Aug 2007)

RobertMP":31cpygj4 said:


> Making progress



_Good_ progress, I'd say. Looking good  

Dave


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## RobertMP (28 Aug 2007)

Well I've made the big drawer in similar style to the other 3 and mounted it in the plinth. After all the clever ideas I had for mechanisms and such like for opening it without a handle I've decided it does not need any. It opens easily and a small finger grip groove in the top edge of the face will be all that is required. (not done the groove yet)





So having done the plinth end pieces the only major thing left to make is the shelf. Small change of plan there too. We need full height in one cupboard so the shelf will span 2 not all 3. I've made a frame into which will be inset another panel of the beech veneered mdf. Only just done the frame so it is just pushed together at present. Panel still to be cut.





Interface of plinth to plinth drawer. Wasn't sure about the height change where the bottom of the drawer is raised up for ground clearance but it does not look too bad.





Overview. Top is just resting there. Need to cut some slots in the frame top and knock up some toggle things to attach the top. Plinth end bit this end is wedged in position for the photo. Other end is laying on the table next to the sideboard.





Still more sanding to do and a lot of finishing. I'm away for the middle of September so not sure if I'll manage to complete it before I go.


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## DaveL (28 Aug 2007)

Robert,

This is looking very nice.  

I can't wait to see it finished. :roll:


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## ByronBlack (28 Aug 2007)

I really like this piece. I think the design is very clean, modern by without looking bland soul-less like an Ikea piece.

Was it your own design, or did you have some plans?

What are you going to use for a finish?


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## RobertMP (29 Aug 2007)

The design story is all in my thread in the design section

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16780

There is a link to the sketchup file towards the end.

Finish is going to be a satin polyurethane. I'm using sanding sealer to get the surfaces smooth first and I'm planning on taking my time over it before going near it with the polyurethane.

My work was designing and developing sheet metal work for commercial lighting. Custom products all made to order. Designing in wood is new to be but the process is similar. Quite amusing to think I have designed some huge shopping center feature in a day or two and had it manufactured and delivered within the week.... and this has taken me months :lol:


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## Bean (30 Aug 2007)

Looks very good, nice clean lines


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## Lord Nibbo (31 Aug 2007)

RobertMP":2bnh4rlg said:


> Quite amusing to think I have designed some huge shopping center feature in a day or two and had it manufactured and delivered within the week.... and this has taken me months :lol:



Ah! but your side board will last more than one lifetime, it's sure to become an heirloom, it looks quite stunning now, I can't wait to see it with finish on it. =D>


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## Escudo (31 Aug 2007)

Excellent work Rob, looks just great. 

A valuable addition to your home furnishings, and just think of all those nice drinks you could keep in it. 

Cheers, Esc


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## RobertMP (31 Aug 2007)

Thanks for the comments.

Escudo - nothing so interesting going inside it. Plan is to for it to take the less used stuff from the kitchen cupboards and make them easier to use by being less cluttered.

All the removable bits have now had sanding sealer and been final sanded. The main body currently has its slots for top fixing toggles and the sealer is currently drying.

I've put a first coat of the satin poly. on the back of a drawer face and will give it rub down and a second coat later just to check it looks right before committing to it.


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## RobertMP (27 Sep 2007)

I've been back from Canada for a few days now and been concentrating on editing my photos!

On the last day before I left I did get a first coat of polyurethane on everything so I need to get that rubbed down and another coat applied.

Just checking in briefly to let you know I'm still around.

I'll sort out a few Canada photos and post them here later (general chat) for those that might be interested.


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## ByronBlack (27 Sep 2007)

Welcome back, hope you had a good time in Canada, looking foward to seeing the piece with the finish, it's already quite impressive.


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## RobertMP (11 Oct 2007)

I got kidnapped and forced to do outdoor decorating. SWMBO has set be free now so the main carcase has had a couple of coats and will be finished in a day or two. Want to get that out of the workshop as I don't have room to have all the door faces etc. around at the same time and will do them after.

the end is nigh 

Final pictures soon!


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## RobertMP (15 Oct 2007)

Well I wasted a fair bit of time trying different satin polyurethanes. None of them seemed to dry to an even finish. So in the end I gave up and used gloss. I like the nice even look it gives just not sure about the gloss level.

Once we have lived with it for a while I'll decide if I want to try satin again. May just go for a light rub down and use acrylic if I do.

The top going on...






And the finished Sideboard















Well I'm calling it finished. Couldn't find any 1/4" dowel for shelf pegs so the shelf is not fitted. Also want to give the top another coat so it is rubbed down and waiting.

Oh and I made the bowl and picked the pears


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## ByronBlack (15 Oct 2007)

that is wonderful! One of the best pieces i've seen on this forum! You definitely get my vote. Well done Rob!!


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## GCR (15 Oct 2007)

Well done, an excellent piece of work which looks the part.

Bob


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## Chris Knight (15 Oct 2007)

Robert,
That's a super result - very well done.

Re the gloss - I always use a gloss finish then take it back to whatever level of satin I want by rubbing down with a fine abrasive - anything from 500 grit to 4000. This provides a much nicer result than satin finishes which are simply gloss with some flatteners added. These can settle out and unless stirred like crazy, they can result in an uneven result - they also scatter light differently from a fine rubbed finish and I prefer the latter look.


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## RobertMP (15 Oct 2007)

waterhead37":1wyrp7o1 said:


> Re the gloss - I always use a gloss finish then take it back to whatever level of satin I want by rubbing down with a fine abrasive - anything from 500 grit to 4000. This provides a much nicer result than satin finishes which are simply gloss with some flatteners added. These can settle out and unless stirred like crazy, they can result in an uneven result - they also scatter light differently from a fine rubbed finish and I prefer the latter look.



Very interesting! I'd thought it looked quite good when rubbed down before the final coat - never considered doing it as a finish!


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## Mcluma (15 Oct 2007)

that is a nice piece of furniture and that is one hell of a gloss 

it is almost like a mirror


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## dedee (15 Oct 2007)

Excellent stuff Robert.

It is going to be hard for the judges and the rest of us this year as the standard seems to be growing.

Andy


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## Escudo (15 Oct 2007)

Well done indeed Rob. Looks great.

Proportions seem perfect, a very useful piece of furniture. 

In fact, I think it is so good, you deserve to be promoted to at least the intermediate league (ignoring my own vested concerns of course :roll: )

Good luck in the competion. My shoe box sitting on the top of that sideboard would certainly enhance my chances of sucess.  

Cheers, Esc.


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## TonyW (15 Oct 2007)

Very well done Rob - What a gloss 8) 

Cheers  
Tony


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## shedhead (6 Nov 2007)

Well done Rob
I love the units style and finish.


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## RobertMP (6 Nov 2007)

TonyW":jnx8upn1 said:


> Very well done Rob - What a gloss 8)
> 
> Cheers
> Tony



We've got used to the gloss now and like it so the finish stays.

Awaiting delivery of a cane 3 piece suite to replace the one we had that now looks very old in the same room as this. The design should scale well so the plan is for some more matching smaller items around the seating - once it is here and we can see the sizes needed.

Thanks for the comments.


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## OPJ (10 Nov 2007)

This is an excellent piece and I'm sure you've learned a lot in making it and trying out some new techniques. I do like how you're 'hidden' the end grain on the drawer fronts - not something I've seen before, but it works really well in following the design of the doors below. Excellent use of all possible storage space.


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## andycktm (22 Nov 2007)

Move up to the next class(at least) and you've got my vote.


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## RobertMP (22 Nov 2007)

Thanks for the compliment 

If you read the whole thread you will see I made my share of beginners mistakes along the way :lol:

This sideboard is only the 4th thing I've made (unless I've forgotten something) and the other 3 were quite small tables for positioning at the end of sofas in the lounge. No stopping me now.....apart from all the decorating type tasks I keep being told are more important!


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## andycktm (22 Nov 2007)

No problem mate,i just thing your doing your self an injustice


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