# Anyone used a website designer for a small business website?



## Rob_H (2 Apr 2010)

I've designed a website myself for my small business using iWeb on a Mac but I've no idea how to get it ranked on Google so it appears in searches. I might be better using a website designer but I still want to be able to add to the website myself as my stock changes. Has anyone used one recently or have any idea of pricing? I need a professional looking website - was going to include a link to mine for feedback but don't want to be seen as advertising on here. 

Any advice?


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## matt (2 Apr 2010)

Google will just eventually find your site, however, where it actually ranks is another question. Google provide lots of info. Try here for starters: http://www.google.com/support/webmaster ... swer=70897

Also... get your business on Google Maps.


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## wizer (2 Apr 2010)

If you want a good web developer then PM me. I'm cheap.

WRT to google. I've had a few enquiries lately and all of them thought a web designer could instantly put them at the top of the google ranks. That's not possible. One guy told me I was trying to con him and that he could use a service where he paid 'just' £80 to put him at the top. I refrained from replying after that. Getting good google results is all about having your site coded well, having other sites link to you and ultimately, traffic. It's a chicken egg situation. You need traffic to generate traffic. Basically if the site looks good and more importantly works well, you'll eventually work your way up the ranks. There's no short cut.


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## big soft moose (2 Apr 2010)

wizer":69kbnc8u said:


> If you want a web designer then PM me. I'm cheap.
> .



you need to work on your sales pitch tom  - i think you meant to say " I'm really good, and I cost a lot less than the competition for the same standard" - cheap implies a lack of quality - i mean would you buy a power tool from power pro just because it was cheap ??? :lol:


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## wizer (2 Apr 2010)

How about this... "I'm cheap and F***ing good?" :lol:


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## big soft moose (2 Apr 2010)

wizer":3cec0olu said:


> How about this... "I'm cheap and F***ing good?" :lol:



sound like an ideal date....


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## Steve Maskery (2 Apr 2010)

Tom
There are two P's in Flipping.
S


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## RogerS (2 Apr 2010)

Rob

You don't need a web designer nor do you need to shell out ££££ to be Search Optimised. I also used iWeb.

1) iWeb is great for creating a my family website. It is not great for a business since there are none of the meta-tags that Google partially looks at. Things like keyowrds although a lot of people will say that they are not the be-all and end-all and they'd be right.

So you can use iWeb SEO tool which allows you to add meta-tags etc. But that is only part of the story. If you are talking getting ranked highly in Google then that is a black art although many people will try and sell/tell you otherwise.

That's about as far as I can advise.

You might like to look at findtheneedle as a marketing tool.

Also it depends what you are selling. I'm not convinced of the web as a sales tool for doing something like woodworking.

A web designer is good at that...designing pretty web pages. 

I also think that it pays to be hosted with a site with good download performance. Don't go for a cheapie hosting service. And avoid Demon. I use lchosts. Very good. Very fast. Economical.

One line you say is that 'you want to update items as they become available'. Without knowing what your site is/your business does then yes you might be better getting someone in who knows ecommerce and not a web designer per se.


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## wizer (2 Apr 2010)

RogerS":3gipmleo said:


> you might be better getting someone in who knows ecommerce and not a web designer per se.


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## matt (2 Apr 2010)

I disagree about Google ranking being a "Black Art". It's dead simple provided you focus on what you want to be ranked highly for and approach developing your site with your goal in mind. However, it's important to remember that a high ranking is not the same as advertising in many markets. There are other, often more effective, ways to drive up your USEFUL hit rate - especially if you trade in a localised market. 

Roger's appraisal of web designers is not wholly fair IMO - it's a reflection of an industry where there is a wide range of talent but an unfortunate glut at the low calibre end of the scale. It's not beyond many people to produce a web page and call themselves a web designer. Producing an effective online presence that is fit for purpose for a commensurate level of initial and ongoing investment requires so much more. There are lots of people who call themselves web designers and do really understand the medium and have the necessary skills to cover all the bases or, more to the point, know when to advise their client to invest in additional services. Unfortunately there's a whole load of "web designers" too who, despite the best of intentions, lack a sufficiently comprehensive skillset (often without realising).

It's a tricky market. All I can suggest is that you think carefully about operating costs and return on investment - the latter often focussing the mind on what you are realistically expecting to get out of a web presence in terms of additional profit.


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## big soft moose (2 Apr 2010)

matt":2redhlfh said:


> Unfortunately there's a whole load of "web designers" too who, despite the best of intentions, lack a sufficiently comprehensive skillset (often without realising).
> .



too right - owning a web design package (even if its dream weaver) makes you a web designer to the same degree that owning a guitar makes you a musician !


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## BradNaylor (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":mxhaoepw said:


> You don't need a web designer nor do you need to shell out ££££ to be Search Optimised.
> 
> Also it depends what you are selling.



True.

If you are selling a specialised product or service in a specific geographical area then getting a high Google ranking is very easy - simply because there is not likely to be a lot of competition.

If you are trying to sell a mainstream product across the whole country then you will be up against some big players with deep pockets, and getting noticed will be a lot more difficult.




RogerS":mxhaoepw said:


> I'm not convinced of the web as a sales tool for doing something like woodworking.




Our experience is different. Our websites bring in the lion's share of new enquiries for our businesses. It has enabled us to reduce our entire annual advertising budget to less than £100!

It may have something to do with being of the edge of a big metropolitan sprawl with a million potential customers within half an hour, rather than being in the back of beyond!


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

Fair points made by everyone. 



BradNaylor":3t5k1zyn said:


> ......
> 
> It may have something to do with being of the edge of a big metropolitan sprawl with a million potential customers within half an hour, rather than being in the back of beyond!



:mrgreen:


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## Mr T (3 Apr 2010)

Hi

We have recently had a quote of over £2000 to produce a site for the gallery (Designer Makers ). The site would be created using Wordpress and be integrated with various social networking facilities. The designer also emphasises SEO, but as has been commented, I'm not sure how much they can guarantee. The designer was Aube Design http://aubecreative.co.uk/

As a matter of interest has anyone tried using social networking for marketting (should this be a new thread?). I am dipping my toe in the water (Twitter and blogging) but don't really understand how it works.

Chris


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## DaveL (3 Apr 2010)

There was a 'space' at the at of the link, before the [

I have seen this before and it makes the forum software misdisplay the message, I have fixed the post.


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## BradNaylor (3 Apr 2010)

Two grand seems awfully expensive Chris, and to be honest I don't like the look of any of the websites that designer has done. I prefer your existing one!

I must look into the social network thing myself. I know nowt about it!


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## petermillard (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":185n5v5t said:


> I'm not convinced of the web as a sales tool for doing something like woodworking.





BradNaylor":185n5v5t said:


> Our experience is different...



Have to agree with Brad on this one. I think just about every enquiry I've had in the last five years has been from someone who's already visited the website (and presumably liked what they've seen  ) and in an increasingly media-aware world I don't see this reducing in any way at all.

I've always advertised in the traditional ways, especially when I first started up, but stopped this a few of years back and instead spend far smaller sums on promotional items that don't appear to be any less effective.

Cheers, Pete.


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

petermillard":2trdv2af said:


> RogerS":2trdv2af said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not convinced of the web as a sales tool for doing something like woodworking.
> ...



I think that Brad hit the nail on the head. It all depends on your location ie potential number of customers.


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## matt (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":1xa46477 said:


> I think that Brad hit the nail on the head. It all depends on your location ie potential number of customers.



And competitors.


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

Chris is absolutely correct about the social networking thing. It's just as essential as your website.


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## Mattty (3 Apr 2010)

wizer":24e9wd64 said:


> Chris is absolutely correct about the social networking thing. It's just as essential as your website.



I am very naive on this- can you expand on this a little wizer?


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## matt (3 Apr 2010)

Mattty":mtp3u2kr said:


> wizer":mtp3u2kr said:
> 
> 
> > Chris is absolutely correct about the social networking thing. It's just as essential as your website.
> ...



I'm curious too. Are you thinking in terms of viral marketing, Wizer? I can see that it's not a bad thing but wonder who's going to "follow" etc (in terms of actual customers versus those interested in, say, woodworking)?

Note to self - give this more thought...


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

The benefit varies depending on your particular line of business. Social networking get your name about, gives people access to pictures of your work, creates a localised 'buzz'. Social networking is not to replace your traditional online presence, it serves to compliment it. for example, a customer adds your fan page to their profile. All their friends can see that they added you and will 'have a nose'. You may get one or two who add you too because they might be interested in your work. Their friends can then see that they have added you, ad infinitum. You might add pictures of your work or small updates about what your doing and all your 'fans' can see this. Don't get bogged down in the terminology. Just because FB terms your 'friends' as 'fans' doesn't mean your pretentiously putting yourself on a pedestal. It also helps to 'network' with other businessmen, not just in your line of work, but in similar trades. You would be surprised how much people are using these applications. It all helps to get your name around. It's all about exposure. Don't take my word for it, have a google. It's big business, but business that is totally free. It just takes a little effort for you. If you are positive about these services then they will work for you.

For example. Axminster, Chestnut Finishes, Philly Planes, The Wood Whisperer, Matts Basement Workshop, Meantime Design, Lumber Jocks, Turners Retreat, Fine Woorworking, Popular Woodworking, Living Woods, The Contemporist, Brian Boggs, Gary Rogowski, Charles Neil, plus many many more are all on FaceBook, using it for their business. 

A few of my friends have 'fan pages' who run gardening, plastering, general building type business. I know some individual 'artisans' using FaceBook as a selling\advertising tool.

It's not just FB. Twitter is massive, LinkedIn is a good business tool, etc, etc


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## Mattty (3 Apr 2010)

wizer":3ngyqgfq said:


> The benefit varies depending on your particular line of business. Social networking get your name about, gives people access to pictures of your work, creates a localised 'buzz'. Social networking is not to replace your traditional online presence, it serves to compliment it. for example, a customer adds your fan page to their profile. All their friends can see that they added you and will 'have a nose'. You may get one or two who add you too because they might be interested in your work. Their friends can then see that they have added you, ad infinitum. You might add pictures of your work or small updates about what your doing and all your 'fans' can see this. Don't get bogged down in the terminology. Just because FB terms your 'friends' as 'fans' doesn't mean your pretentiously putting yourself on a pedestal. It also helps to 'network' with other businessmen, not just in your line of work, but in similar trades. You would be surprised how much people are using these applications. It all helps to get your name around. It's all about exposure. Don't take my word for it, have a google. It's big business, but business that is totally free. It just takes a little effort for you. If you are positive about these services then they will work for you.
> 
> For example. Axminster, Chestnut Finishes, Philly Planes, The Wood Whisperer, Matts Basement Workshop, Meantime Design, Lumber Jocks, Turners Retreat, Fine Woorworking, Popular Woodworking, Living Woods, The Contemporist, Brian Boggs, Gary Rogowski, Charles Neil, plus many many more are all on FaceBook, using it for their business.
> 
> ...



Thanks wizzy. Thats all very interesting. I am a real dinosaur at this stuff.


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

I see what you're saying, Tom, but still struggle to get my head around how you go about doing this. Are there separate areas in these social networking sites? Reason for asking is that yesterday while listening to the Classic Fm hall of Fame they mentioned that people were talking about a piece of work by Hess ( a truly horrible piece of work IMO) so I went onto Twitter to try and find the thread or whatever it's called. I tried searching for Hess, Hall of Fame without much success. However looking at the various comments that people are making did nothing to dispel my preconceived impression of these SN sites.

The comments that I saw on Twitter plumbed new depths in banality. That was the ones that I could actually read. Many were so obtuse I gave up. 

So are there separate areas for 'normal' articulate people?


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## Mr T (3 Apr 2010)

Hi

Does Matty's avatar give anyone else nightmares?!!!

I recently went to a seminar on social marketing run by Shaa wasmund (she set up a platform on the web for small businesses and entrepreneurs called Smarta ) look at her on Twitter and Facebook to see how someone is really committed to social marketing. I can see that social marketing could be a powerful tool if used right.

Following the seminar I signed up to Twitter, but have not really worked out how to make it work for me, I currently have three followers and one of them is my daughter!

Chris Nomates

PS Smarta site http://www.smarta.com/ Why can I only put a url at the end of a message, if I decide to go back and insert a url in the middle of a messege it forces it to the end?


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

Twitter isn't a forum. It's a live logging system. I don't use it much because I'm not in business and I have no desire to log my every move. I don't think searching on Twitter is very useful unless you are looking for what they call trends. i.e you want to observe what people are saying about specific topic at that specific time. I'm not sure how far you can go back. As I say, there are some people who are using these sites for purely 'social' reasons. But in a way, it's them who you are 'targeting'. I don't see it as viral marketing. But others might. It depends on how you go about it. 

Anyone wanting to use this medium, I would suggest you sit and watch how they are used for a few weeks. Understand how other use them. Don't go on there all guns blazing, like a certain router bit company did here not so long ago.

Obviously, forums are another type of these social networking, but probably viewed as old hat by those in the know. As I'm sure you know Roger, having your website in your signature is generating you more website traffic and getting you better google rankings.


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## Mattty (3 Apr 2010)

Mr T":1s9qn74c said:


> Hi
> 
> Does Matty's avatar give anyone else nightmares?!!!


 :lol: :lol:


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## OPJ (3 Apr 2010)

I know a guy locally who says setting up his own Facebook page has done great things for his business. Likewise, he's been using Twitter to spread the word of a forthcoming exhibition.


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

OPJ":2tolx13z said:


> I know a guy locally who says setting up his own Facebook page has done great things for his business. Likewise, he's been using Twitter to spread the word of a forthcoming exhibition.



Do you have his link, Ollie? Be interesting to see what he's done.


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## Mr T (3 Apr 2010)

Hi Ollie

I'd also be interested in that link.

Chris


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## BradNaylor (3 Apr 2010)

Et moi.

Brad


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## Mattty (3 Apr 2010)

What Brad said..
oh and me aswell.


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## BradNaylor (3 Apr 2010)

Never mind that Matt, you've not replied to my Fire Door thread yet!


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## Chris Knight (3 Apr 2010)

I reckon you all should just ask Tom(Wizer) to set it up for you - I'm sure his rates are reasonable and I know from having set up quite a few websites/forums and the like myself that it is a pain to keep on top of everything.


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## duncanh (3 Apr 2010)

To get an idea of how wood companies use Twitter or Facebook you're best off setting up an account on one of those. Once you're on Twitter search for any of the companies that Tom mentioned and choose to follow them. 

Once you've done that you'll probably need some sort of Twitter feed checker - I use Echofon installed as an extension in Firefox. As soon as someone I'm following posts an update (tweets) a small window pops up displaying it for 5 seconds or so and then it adds a count to the status bar.
For companies like Axminster and Turners Retreat the updates are mainly about new products or special offers. One alerted me to an offer with Turners Retreat where I got a free set of digital calipers if I became a fan of them on Facebook.

I ignore most of their tweets and they can sometimes be a little excessive sending 4 or 5 out a day just to advertise things for the following weekend, but if things annoy you too much you can always stop following.


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## OPJ (3 Apr 2010)

Okay, guys.

This first link is for the Facebook page - Charlie's set it up as a "Group" but you could equally do it as a "Page" (to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what the difference is - _wizer???_). Click here - though, you may need to be registered/signed in to view.

There really isn't much to it and I'd bet it's much easier to set one of these up than it is to build a half-decent website. I assume it works as Tom described earlier; you invite people to 'join' your Group (or 'become a fan of' your Page) and it spreads from there.

That was a Group; this next one is a Page for a forth-coming exhibition - click here.

Nick Gibbs set up a Page for Living Woods magazine.

On Twitter, you can also "follow" the exhibition - here. I know even less about Twitter but, there are nearly double the amount of people following these 'Tweets'.

I hope this helps in some way. If you've all built your own websites then setting this type of thing up really shouldn't be any trouble at all... It's only when you start to get Friend Reguests and people Poking you that it starts to become a bother!


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

Yeah but how does it bring you in business? I don't see the connection or rationale.


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

Do you understand the concept of social networking in traditional forms Roger? i.e not on the net?


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## big soft moose (3 Apr 2010)

wizer":s1le5bco said:


> Do you understand the concept of social networking in traditional forms Roger? i.e not on the net?



its basically the same as word of mouth innit - if a happy customer links your facebook page to theirs then their freinds can see you and are likely to visit yours to check you out , thus may think of you next time they want whatever it is that you do. simples

course it does have a downside if your service is rubbish , as they can also use face book to say avoid this one like the plague ( I wonder if rutlands have a F/B  )

at the end of the day its just people talking to each other, and stripped of the techno babble its not much different to giving customers a biz card or flyer so they can recomend you when they are talking to their mates down the pub, or at coffee mornings or whatever


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

Yes I do. But that works on me chatting to, say, the guys that cut our hedge. They now know that I do windows etc and will recommend me on. But I can't make the jump to tweeting. Social networking off the net is more reactive viz the hedge guys. 

Tweeting seems pro-active but in a negative way. So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'. Or even more extreme. They know I do windows. If they want one made then they'll pick up the phone.


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## RogerS (3 Apr 2010)

big soft moose":1ev3tlh4 said:


> ....
> its basically the same as word of mouth innit - if a happy customer links your facebook page to theirs then their freinds can see you .....



But don't these people feed on having zillions of 'friends'. So why is anyone going to sit there and look through Joe Bloggs 45689 friends ? Out of boredom? Don't they have a life?


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## big soft moose (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":j2sgw7tv said:


> Tweeting seems pro-active but in a negative way. So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'. Or even more extreme. They know I do windows. If they want one made then they'll pick up the phone.



I think the thing is that if you are using twitter as a marketting tool you wouldnt tweet in the same way as if you were using it socially - the standard tweet style of " I bought a new saw", " I made a cup of coffee" etc does indeed invite the response of "who gives a **** " but if you are using it as a marketting tool your tweets would be about jobs you've finished, new products you've made, things you can offer your customers etc... in short stuff that *is* of interest to potential customers


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## big soft moose (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":24zpic1y said:


> big soft moose":24zpic1y said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



true - but the idea is that say you've just fitted my windows, i would then "become a fan" of your page and a box would pop up for me to add comment before it was posted on my profile in which i could write my comments about your jobs so the post on my profile would read

"Pete became a fan of Rogerswindowspage

" this guys just finished fitting my windows and his work was the absolute dogs, i'd highly recomend him to anyone " 

with the rogerswindowspage being a link to your page

that would be at the top of my profile, and would also get posted on the news pages for all my freinds - essentially free advertising for you, and my freinds wouldnbt have to look through all zillion freinds to see your page because it would be right there in front of them


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

I'm not 'up' on Twitter, but why would a businessman be tweeting about buying tools? I'm not sure twitter is particularly the right tool for your type of business. You would be better off investigating both FaceBook and LinkedIn. Facebook works how both myself and Olly have explained above. LinkedIn is more like a business directory. Again, LinkedIn is not something I have used much, apart from a nosey around. I've read a few articles about this stuff, so I'm aware what people are using. It seems to be working for people and those that do use it seem positive about it. 

I must stress, these tools are _additional _to a _good _website, they do not replace it. It's a way to get people to your site. Getting people to your site generates traffic. Google likes traffic and will rank you higher based on links back to you. That's not the only way to get higher in the rankings, just one part of the puzzle. A well written website is still the core of your SEO (I hate that term) plan. 

Networking, be it on the web or IRL, is all about generating interest in your business and getting your name about. The more networking you do, the more your name is fresh in both prospective clients and complimentary businessmen's minds. It's not easy, you have to tackle it right, be positive and persevere.

It makes sense to me. I think it takes an open mind and the realisation that these services are extremely popular with a great deal of people, worldwide. There are other marketing routes and those may work for certain people. The important thing about Internet Social Networking, is that it's free.


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## matt (3 Apr 2010)

RogerS":2f6k0v7r said:


> So the people in my network get a tweet from me telling them that I've just got a new saw. Their reaction is going to be 'so what'.



Which is kinda what I was driving at when I asked who is going to "follow". I know loads of people who Facebook, Tweet, etc. Many of them follow bands, or brands, or events, or similar. I've not had single conversation with any one of them who has bought a nice little bespoke bedside cabinet as a result of being tweeted. Meanwhile, around here... Someone else's blog is more likely to result in having a go at making something the same in the workshop.


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## wizer (3 Apr 2010)

FaceBook and Twitter does not just attract young or 'white trash' type users who are just interested in talking inane bullsh*t. There are many businessmen or just ordinary people who are using it to keep in contact with their network of friends. To stereotype every user of social networking sites as morons, would be foolish. 

If you want to use these services for business purposes, then reporting on mundane stuff would be wrong. Obviously. Think of it as advertising but on a slightly more personal level.

But if you really don't understand it or care about it.... then don't use it. It's not the end of the world. If traditional marketing is working for you, then you have nothing else to worry about.


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## RogerS (4 Apr 2010)

I understand what you're saying, wizer and BSM, but I still don't see how it will work. I think that we're agreed that Twitter isn't really relevant.

I looked at LinkedIn and gave a big yawn. OK- I registered as it's free. I linked into some people in my contacts database who are also on LinkedIn. But they already know what i do and so I am still left with a big resounding 'so what'. What IS the point of LinkedIn? Trying to prove the six-points-of-contact theory?

So Facebook. I can understand it for a product, like the magazine, that has a market that is geographically diverse and is a commodity. I looked at Charlie's site. Apart from an ego-trip and telling his mates what he's doing, how does that help other people 'find' him and think ...ooh, I must ring him for a coffee table? If this prospect lives at the other end of the country, hardly viable, is it?

I _CAN_ see it working if, like Brad, you are on the outskirts of a megaloplis but for the likes of me, sorry, I can't see how it can benefit me.

Don't get me wrong...if something works and is free then I'm all for it..just that I can't see how it will work for me.


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## matt (4 Apr 2010)

Roger, I'm not familiar with your market - I've had a quick look at your sites but not much more. If, for example, you were working on a major restoration project likely to attract attention then I can see benefit in you associating yourself with that projects Facebook group. Or... if you're aware of a major restoration or similar and there was a Facebook group for it then it's worth joining because it puts you in the frame. 

My scepticism is existing and expecting to be "followed" in your own right as a relative unknown.


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## RogerS (4 Apr 2010)

matt":g3k5wdm6 said:


> Roger, I'm not familiar with your market - I've had a quick look at your sites but not much more. If, for example, you were working on a major restoration project likely to attract attention then I can see benefit in you associating yourself with that projects Facebook group. Or... if you're aware of a major restoration or similar and there was a Facebook group for it then it's worth joining because it puts you in the frame.



Now that makes a lot of sense.



matt":g3k5wdm6 said:


> My scepticism is existing and expecting to be "followed" in your own right as a relative unknown.



Not sure I follow you ? :?


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## matt (4 Apr 2010)

RogerS":1iq4lk31 said:


> matt":1iq4lk31 said:
> 
> 
> > matt":1iq4lk31 said:
> ...



Just reiterating what I think we've both been saying. If you were Mr Nike and made windows with the swooosh then you'd have a Facebook group and you'd be followed because of brand awareness (perhaps not a brilliant example). By contrast I found a window restorer with 27 "friends".

Social networking is either big-world (Nike, U2, Lego, Coke), big-specialist (Axminster, I work at [insert your company name here], before jumping to the opposite extreme - tiny tiny tiny (me). There's no middle ground - e.g. window restoration in the south-east group to which the tiny can attach and therefore gain exposure.


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## RogerS (4 Apr 2010)

Succinctly put, Matt, and I couldn't agree more with you.


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## Rob_H (4 Apr 2010)

Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).

I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic. 

I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.


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## RogerS (4 Apr 2010)

Rob_H":2emen979 said:


> Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).
> 
> I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic.
> 
> I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.



But what would people search for to get to you? The term 'antique furniture' gives over half a million hits!

Have you looked at other sites such as this one http://www.antiqueoakfurniture.co.uk/fu ... ntury.html ?


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## matt (4 Apr 2010)

Rob_H":swv70vhs said:


> Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).
> 
> I have linked in to twitter and facebook for marketting and need to get the site ranked on google - I suppose through increased traffic.
> 
> I'm worried the site doesn't look professional enough - I may well drop Tom a line. It's a site I need to be able to update myself almost daily as my stock changes. Thanks for all of the advice so far.



I'm intrigued having had some experience with antiques and web sites (for antique dealers)... What sort of traffic are you expecting the site to drive? Enquiries leading to visits to your premises or pure sales? I realise a sale is desirable but is that what you are EXPECTING? A few years back we found that the site prompted quite a few international sales that subsequently failed to go ahead because of the shipping costs. Meanwhile, a lot of UK people visited the shop saying they'd seen the website. Some travelled quite a distance demonstrating a reluctance to buy over the web. This was a few years back - have things changed in your experience? 

There were some other odd phenomenon around site design that I'll not go in to here because our observations were purely speculative and coincided with a significant drop-off in the antiques market a few years back so could be coincidental. However, suffice to say, beware of appearing too professional... I would not invest a huge amount of effort in making it look too professional until you're confident that is does, in fact, lead to more enquiries.


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## Mr T (4 Apr 2010)

Hi

Matt said



> Social networking is either big-world (Nike, U2, Lego, Coke), big-specialist (Axminster, I work at [insert your company name here], before jumping to the opposite extreme - tiny tiny tiny (me). There's no middle ground - e.g. window restoration in the south-east group to which the tiny can attach and therefore gain exposure.



Having tried Twitter for a few weeks I agree. It seems to me that Twitter is a bit like being in a big room with thousands of people all shouting at once. How do you attract the attention of the people you want to contact?
I think, possibly, that Facebook is a better medium, which I need to investigate.

The problem with all this is you can spend all your time on the computer, something my wife is making pointed comments about!

Regarding SEO the webdesigner I am talking to says that registering with DMOZ helps to get you up the search engines. I know that these magic bullets come and go, but he seems to thing that it's the bees knees (or D'sB's) Has anyone tried DMOZ?

The other problem with Twitteris you've only got 140 characters and as you can see I'm a bit verbose!!

Chris


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## Anonymous (4 Apr 2010)

just looking through all these replies

I had an ecommerce website selling wall brackets for TV's which is a highly competitive market with chinese imports etc etc. I am in the throws of rebranding it and going down a different route i will keep you posted as to what it is when its up and running.

After loads of research on website optimisation, basically a few years ago just to get to the top of google it was a case of repeating the key phrases a million times, so in my case had i repeatedly used TV mounts, TV wall mounts etc, google would have picked this up and sent me to the top. But then google got very very smart and designed a new ranking algorithm code, where basically it now ranks on content and how well the content is written as well as having link backs to your website. So for someone like aximinster every single time we as users do a link to axminsters website from here their rank on google is so much better off hence their presence at the top of google.

So these high ranking websites, don't use social networking sites to get their name around, its to create link backs to their sites to keep up their page rank within google. 

There is a little more to it than that i know, but google ranks your website on its relevent content and on how popular it is with other sites.


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## wizer (4 Apr 2010)

I'm not so confident that DMOZ is particularly useful. Not a waste of time IMO, but certainly not any sort of solution. It won't get you high in the ranks on it's own. SEO is such a controversial subject and a lot of designers are using it to inflate their prices or quality of service. However, SEO is just common sense and should be part of any well developed website solution, not an extra.


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## Anonymous (4 Apr 2010)

PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important".

from wiki


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## RogerS (4 Apr 2010)

The SEO consultant cometh


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## Rob_H (5 Apr 2010)

matt":2z3903e0 said:


> Rob_H":2z3903e0 said:
> 
> 
> > Just to cover a couple of points - it's not a woodie site I have - I'm an antiques dealer (part time - mainly 17th and 18th c country furniture).
> ...



I'm really looking to attract visitors to the shop rather than actual sales off the site. I personally think a web presence is almost expected for most businesses in today's market.


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