# Help choosing a Tenon Saw please.



## scubadoo (26 Feb 2012)

At the risk of it ending up like the recent thread on dovetail saws  can you guys recommend me a Tenon saw.

I'm building a bed at the moment, so 6mm tenons in 20mm wide pine is the requirement. I also make guitars and want to get into some furniture work.

I want something that is new, and comes sharp.

I don't want to go mad on price but also don't want to buy cheap and regret it.

Cheers 

Dave


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## MickCheese (26 Feb 2012)

I have bought some real bargains from eBay in the past.

I have a Taylor Bros 14" tenon that I had sharpened by my local saw place and cuts perfectly. I think it cost me about £4 +postage. Brass back and about 14 tpi.

How about this one, "2.20 at the moment:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tyzack-So...t-cond-/300666623747?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsH

Mick


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## Argus (26 Feb 2012)

.

Ebay specials are sometimes a lottery when it comes to quality – all too often a good old saw is a tempting buy but beyond repair in the sharpening department.

For new saws, you could do worse than look at the range of VERITAS saws. At around 50 quid they are very good.




.


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## Jacob (27 Feb 2012)

Loads on ebay very cheap and some excellent value for money. OK it's a gamble but you just have to jump in IMHO. It's just part of the learning curve. You could buy 10 or more ebay saws for the price of one Pax. Several of them would be excellent.
One to avoid new is the Atkinson Walker with the horrid handles. It shouldn't matter but they are just so nasty! Purple plank with holes in. :roll: 
On the other hand beware of picturesque curly handles - you could be paying more for the handle than the blade.


Go for it - jump in now!

Look out for Spear & Jackson or Footprint. Very good saws, with modern handles, which puts off the collectors and makes them good value.


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## Doug B (27 Feb 2012)

Argus":2qbex1bf said:


> .
> 
> For new saws, you could do worse than look at the range of VERITAS saws. At around 50 quid they are very good.
> 
> ...



That would be my choice if I was going for a new one.


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## Aled Dafis (27 Feb 2012)

Doug B":2qjm40r2 said:


> Argus":2qjm40r2 said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



+1, excellent saws and fantastic value for money compared to Pax, LN, Cosman etc.


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## pedder (27 Feb 2012)

scubadoo":30767lmv said:


> A so 6mm tenons in 20mm wide pine is the requirement.



Any dovetail saw will fit perfectly. 

If you can sharpen, buying old is cheapest. 
If not, veritas is a good cheap saw. 

Cheers 
Pedder


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## Cheshirechappie (27 Feb 2012)

Dave - thanks for asking this question! I'm in a similar boat with regard to tenon saws.

For about the last 15 years, I've had a 12" Roberts and Lee Dorchester with 13 1/2 ppi crosscut, which has done all the tenon-sawing I've needed so far, alongside it's 'proper' cross-cutting duties. When doing rip cuts, it gets there, but slowly. So I'd like to add a rip-filed tenon saw to the toolkit, but as a 'nice-to-have' rather than an out-and-out essential.

Some rootling around the American sites indicates that they have several bespoke sawmakers offering just about anything you can think of. They seem to have a fashion for very long, deep tenon saws with quite coarse toothlines at the moment - 18" 9ppi seems to be in vogue. Prices up to $350 - which seems a bit over the top. They are also very fussy about 'curly handles', which seems a bit buttocks-backwards. As woodworkers, we can shape handles to our wishes, or even replace them altogether if we see fit, but we can't do so much about the metal bits, so need to get the right thing first go from the manufacturer.

Slightly more down to earth, I get the general feeling that 14" or 16" 10ppi rip cut for softwood work, and 12" or 14" 13ppi rip cut for furniture work in hardwoods seem to be the 'preferred' configurations (with the obvious proviso that if it's got sharp teeth it'll cut, whatever you ask it to do). The larger saw for softwoods reflecting the generally larger sizes of softwood components relative to furniture work in hardwoods. The new Pax saws do look tempting.

On the other hand, a bog-standard B&Q hardpoint will do the job, probably almost as well - even if it does look horrible.

My thoughts are therefore that if you're likely to be doing quite a lot of 'proper' furniture work, the posh saw would be a fair buy. For occasinal use, not really financially justifiable. Just get a hardpoint.


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## woodbloke (27 Feb 2012)

Aled Dafis":32yx98vw said:


> Doug B":32yx98vw said:
> 
> 
> > Argus":32yx98vw said:
> ...


+2, difficult to fault - Rob


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## Argus (27 Feb 2012)

Cheshirechappie":znsvalfg said:


> Dave - thanks for asking this question! I'm in a similar boat with regard to tenon saws.
> 
> For about the last 15 years, I've had a 12" Roberts and Lee Dorchester with 13 1/2 ppi crosscut, which has done all the tenon-sawing I've needed so far, alongside it's 'proper' cross-cutting duties. When doing rip cuts, it gets there, but slowly. So I'd like to add a rip-filed tenon saw to the toolkit, but as a 'nice-to-have' rather than an out-and-out essential.




I have a 20 point Dorchester Crosscut and was lucky enough to get a Roberts and Lee 20 point Britania rip last year on fleabay that was just about unused. 
Flinns (who now make them as well as the more expensive Pax) is a great saw maker, but the handles on all but the Pax are awful, so I chucked them on the fire and make a new pistol grip ones to suit me. in short, all of Flinns saws are excellent in the blade department, even if the handles let some of them down and the firm is second to none for good service. 

Whilst hard-points are fine for site work, speaking for myself I'm in it for the enjoyment and that goes for the tools as well.

Back to the VERITAS saws, they do make a range of points and cuts, including rips, to choose from. I think that the blades are made in Japan and are fully sparpenable.

.

.


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## scubadoo (28 Feb 2012)

Thanks everyone.

As I said, I want a new saw. I need it quickly, don't know a saw doctor in Bristol and don't know enough about old saws to know what's good. I haven't found a Veritas Tenon saw so i guess you're talking about the carcass saws - is this the one you mean?

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/hand-tools/sa ... aw,-14-tpi

Is that big enough for most things, i just wonder if 60mm cut depth is enough?


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## Jacob (28 Feb 2012)

A bit too small.
The standard general purpose tenon saw is about 12". Veritas is nearer with the cross cut version of these.
Don't be caught out by the multiple choices - it's just a trick to get you to buy more saws! I'm surprised they don't come in sets of 4 to 12. :roll:


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## Argus (28 Feb 2012)

scubadoo":1eer4ew8 said:


> As I said, I want a new saw. I need it quickly,




Rutland charge for delivery.

Axminster carry the full range of VERITAS saws. If you need it quickly their bog standard free delivery normally arrives the next day.

If you search 'Veritas saws' you should get the full line up to choose from.



.


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## scubadoo (28 Feb 2012)

What would you recommend in a slightly bigger saw for around the same price?

I had a Pax 'guitar' saw for fretwork which is nice but the tenon's are a little pricey I think.


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## Cheshirechappie (28 Feb 2012)

If we set aside Ebay and hardpoints, my researches to date suggest that the choice is as follows;

Veritas, as already recommended. 12" blade, 2 1/2" depth, 12tpi rip or 14tpi crosscut. About £55 - £60 a pop.

Atkinson Walker kit as supplied by Matthew (Workshop Heaven). 12" blade, about 3 1/2" depth (as far as I can tell from photos), either 13tpi rip or 15tpi crosscut. Make your own handle to taste. £55 a pop.

Flinn Garlick Saws Pax 1776 - several configurations, 8", 10" and 12" in either 15tpi or 13tpi crosscut or rip. Blade depth 2" for 8" and 10", 2 1/2" for the 12" saw. Prices between about £80 for the little 'uns to about £110 for the 12".

Pax 1776 'special' supplied by Matthew - 14" blade, 3 1/2" (?) deep 13tpi rip or 15 tpi crosscut, £130.

Flinn Garlick saws 'special' Pax 1776 18" 9tpi - huge thing best suited to framing work - £150.

Lie-Nielsen 12" x 3" or 14" x 3 5/8" 10 tpi rip, or 12tpi crosscut. About £140 - £150. (APTC)

Lie-Nielsen 16" x 10tpi about 4" deep, £152.

Several 'old' Pax, Lynx, Roberts and Lee etc. saws from Flinn Garlick. The blades will be fine, but many people will want to reshape the handles. Mostly in the 12" crosscut range, about £40 - £60.

Anybody know of any others?

Edit to add - Flinn Garlick Saws now offer Roberts and Lee Dorchester, choice of sizes, 14" x 13tpi rip, 3" blade depth, walnut handle - £95. They also offer the Lynx range, eg. (14" 13tpi rip, 3" blade depth, £90), and another 'budget' option, not available in rip filing, for under £50.

A good perusal of the Flinn Garlick website would be time well spent - they offer plenty saws and plenty other than saws.


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## scubadoo (29 Feb 2012)

Thanks Chesirechappie, that's really helpful.

Am I right in thinking that it's really a rip cut that I want?


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## bugbear (29 Feb 2012)

scubadoo":3fwivwmu said:


> Thanks Chesirechappie, that's really helpful.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that it's really a rip cut that I want?



If you want to make both cross cuts (esp. shoulder cuts) *and* rip cuts, a cross cut will do both, with the rip cuts merely being slower than with a purpose filed rip saw.

If you *only* want rip cuts (esp. tenon cheeks), a purpose filed rip saw is a joy, but rip filed teeth are not good at cross cuts.

BugBear


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## Cheshirechappie (29 Feb 2012)

I'd agree with Bugbear. 

For about 15 years, I've been using a 12" 13ppi crosscut (R&L Dorchester - very happy with it) for everything backsawish (apart from dovetails). It's spot-on for crosscutting duties, but very slow on rip cuts for tenons and the like. Because it's slow, there's more chance for it to wander.

The 'ideal' solution for a cabinetmaker is probably to have at least three backsaws. A 10" very fine rip filed, narrowish saw for dovetails and very small tenons, a 12" 13ppi crosscut about 2" to 2 1/2" blade depth, and a big 14" deep-bladed 13ppi for larger tenons and other rip cuts (such as separating the lids of glued-up boxes, for example). A joiner may prefer larger crosscut and tenon saws with slightly coarser teeth, to reflect the larger sizes of most joinery work. For anything bigger on the crosscut front, you'd use a handsaw or machine.

After sleeping on it, I'm leaning towards the Roberts and Lee Dorchester 14" 13ppi rip from Flinn Garlick Saws. It will work straight out of the box, and the walnut handle should reshape nicely if I feel inclined. About £95 for a premium saw sounds about right, and it will last a couple of lifetimes. (The LN will also work perfectly out-of-the-box, and won't need it's handle reshaped either, but 10ppi rip may be a bit aggressive for most cabinet work, and £150 is a lot of beer tokens....)


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## scubadoo (29 Feb 2012)

Thanks for all the advice

£95 is also a lot of beer tokens mind :lol:


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## GazPal (29 Feb 2012)

I'll second and third the vote for Spear and Jackson tenon saws (Anything from their Spearior or 88 ranges) on debay. Especially if you're familiar or willing to become familiar with saw sharpening. Another to keep an eye open for are saws by Tyzack, Sandvik and Disston.

Avoid Spear and Jackson Workhorse saws as they're diy level with rivetted handles and lack taper grind to their blades.


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## Sawyer (29 Feb 2012)

Jacob - I agree about Spear & Jackson & Footprint - both excellent saws for anybody prepared to ignore fashion and certainly worth looking out for 2nd hand ones. My Footprint 12" tenon saw is first rate, but like most of their tools, would not win any beauty contests.

I still cut tenon cheeks by hand quite often: standard tenon saw for small ones, but a 26" ripsaw if larger.

I decided to re-file a decent 12" 13tpi crosscut backsaw to rip teeth and the difference was amazing. By counting saw strokes I concluded that it takes just 1/3 of the time to make the same cut with a normal c/c tenon saw of the same tooth size. Accurate too.


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## scubadoo (29 Feb 2012)

Does anyone know what this one is, I'm trying to track it down on the Flinn website so i can see if it's crosscut.

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/product.php/s ... PWPAXTEN12

-edit- 

just found it, it does come in rip or crosscut. What makes the £100 Pax (and others) saws better than this?


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## Cheshirechappie (29 Feb 2012)

I think that's the Pax model that Flinn Garlick offered as their top-of-the-range saw before they introduced the Pax 1776 range. On that basis, you won't find a better blade, and if you really can't stand the handle after a good settling-in period, you could always make another. (For some reason, apple is a 'traditional' wood for saw handles, but anything reasonably hard and resistant to splitting will do.)

I think the reason that 'nice' handled saws cost significantly more is the amount of handwork required to finish the shaping on them. Labour costs money, so half-an-hour of extra time at the factory may add £25 - £30 to the price. I suspect that part of the problem is that most saw-makers don't have the volume of production to justify in-house CNC routers for handle production, so buy out, and are a bit restricted in what they can get for the price they pay. The only real criticism levelled against Flinn Garlick's saws has been the unpleasant handles they've fitted, possibly for this reason. With the Pax 1776 range, they seem to be trying to improve, but at a consequent increase in price. 

LN take the view that they make premium tools, make and finish handles in-house or very closely to their specification, and charge accordingly. Flinn Garlick offer both premium and good-quality-but-not-pretty ranges. Yer pays yer money and yer takes...


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## Jacob (29 Feb 2012)

I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
I sold a picturesque but knackered Tyzack on ebay for £17.I bought a very trim, hardly used, top class, S&J for £8. A much better saw by far. It doesn't look too hot in the picture but as soon as you pick it up you sense quality and good design.
Both these saws were much better value than any of the new ones on offer.
There's a glut of good quality old tools at the moment. It won't last forever!


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## Cheshirechappie (29 Feb 2012)

Jacob - that's fair comment, but it doesn't answer Scubadoo's original question. Quote, "I want something that is new, and comes sharp."

We all get to saw-sharpening eventually, but one step at a time. One advantage of buying good quality new saws is that you get a fair idea of what a sharp saw feels like, so when you sharpen for the first time, you know what you're aiming for. If you never have a sharp saw, you'll never know.

Once you've invested in saw files and saw-sets, made a couple of saw vices, and learned how to use them, then ebay clunkers will be bargains. If you don't have the files etc, then a blunt saw is no use whatever however cheap it might be.


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## Jacob (29 Feb 2012)

Cheshirechappie":3it7c1ty said:


> ...w.
> 
> Once you've invested in saw files and saw-sets, made a couple of saw vices, and learned how to use them, then ebay clunkers will be bargains. If you don't have the files etc, then a blunt saw is no use whatever however cheap it might be.


Or just whip round to your local saw doctor for a shampoo and set. £5 or so extra to make a very good saw.

PS all the new ones will need sharpening too eventually, so there is no hiding place! :shock:


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## Cheshirechappie (29 Feb 2012)

Or just whip round to your local saw doctor for a shampoo and set. £5 or so extra to make a very good saw.

PS all the new ones will need sharpening too eventually, so there is no hiding place! :shock:[/quote]

The guy wants to buy it and use it, not faff about for a fortnight; that also assumes that there is a saw doctor less than two gallons of petrol away. Just looked in our local Yellow Pages. Nothing. Zilch. Nada.

£10 ebay clunker + £5 postage + £5 saw-doctor + £10 petrol to-and-from twice + time getting it there and back = getting on for cheaper to buy new!

As for "all the new ones will need sharpening too evetually" that's why I said, "We all get to sharpening eventually."


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## GazPal (1 Mar 2012)

Spear & Jackson Professional = A solid Tenon Saw with 12" universal blade (Capable of rip and cross-cutting) and decent cut depth, blade heft, plus comfortable grip.

Brand new

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spear-Jackson ... 1000wt_952

You can always invest in another at a later date and have one dressed for rip and the other dressed for cross cutting and have two professional quality saws for comparatively little above the price of a single Pax saw.

Older counterparts are available cheaply on evilbay with blades ranging between 8", 10", 12" and 14" and they take an exceptional and durable edge when re-sharpened.

OR 

Test drive an Irwin Jack 12" tenon saw at a fraction of the price and you'll gain a sense of a decently put together throw away saw (Unless the hard-point teeth are filed off and re-cut when sharpening time arrives).

Two offerings from different camps that are capable of serving their intended purpose extremely well.


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## DTR (1 Mar 2012)

Cheshirechappie":hvc3yp4f said:


> The 'ideal' solution for a cabinetmaker is probably to have at least three backsaws...



I've heard that quoted before (small rip, medium crosscut, large rip) and the idea certainly works for a novice like me.



Jacob":hvc3yp4f said:


> I bought a very trim, hardly used, top class, S&J for £8. A much better saw by far. It doesn't look too hot in the picture but as soon as you pick it up you sense quality and good design.



I have the 14" version of one of these, I am very happy with it.


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## Mr Ed (1 Mar 2012)

How about this ?

http://www.axminster.co.uk/victor-victo ... prod23597/

Made by Thomas Flinn, decent blade, I've tried the handle and found it quite comfortable, it's a British made saw for £50 - I'm thinking of having one.

I had a chat with the lady at Thomas Flinn about handles and she said they have recently improved the shape, which includes Pax, Lynx walnut and this one.

Ed


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## scubadoo (1 Mar 2012)

Jacob":1x1q8czf said:


> I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
> I sold a picturesque but knackered Tyzack on ebay for £17.




So if i take a punt on ebay I could be the proud owner of one of your knackered old saws! :wink: How come you haven't sharpened it? :wink: 

Like I keep saying, i NEED something new for immediate use. My little 2 year old needs that bed fast!

Thanks for all the input though Jacob


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## scubadoo (1 Mar 2012)

GazPal":wus9k0al said:


> Spear & Jackson Professional = A solid Tenon Saw with 12" universal blade (Capable of rip and cross-cutting) and decent cut depth, blade heft, plus comfortable grip.
> 
> OR
> 
> Test drive an Irwin Jack 12" tenon saw at a fraction of the price and you'll gain a sense of a decently put together throw away saw (Unless the hard-point teeth are filed off and re-cut when sharpening time arrives).



Worth thinking about, thanks.

Yeah, i currently have one of those Irwin saws, it's fine for what it is.


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## scubadoo (1 Mar 2012)

Cheshirechappie":35z9qfl3 said:


> I think that's the Pax model that Flinn Garlick offered as their top-of-the-range saw before they introduced the Pax 1776 range. On that basis, you won't find a better blade, and if you really can't stand the handle after a good settling-in period, you could always make another. (For some reason, apple is a 'traditional' wood for saw handles, but anything reasonably hard and resistant to splitting will do.)



So that may be the one to get. Is there any reason why I couldn't just reshape that handle if I wanted to?


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## scubadoo (1 Mar 2012)

HAs anyone used the Lynx one with the beech handle from Flinn's? Just over £50

http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Lynx_T ... andle.html

At the moment I think I'm leaning towards the PAx for £70, can't really justify anymore as I won't be using it that often.


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## Paul Chapman (1 Mar 2012)

scubadoo":386s83ce said:


> Jacob":386s83ce said:
> 
> 
> > I'd just take a punt on a selection from ebay. They won't all be bad but even if they are it'd be educational.
> ...





:lol: :lol: 

Just about sums up the wisdom of buying from ebay :wink:


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## Jacob (1 Mar 2012)

scubadoo":oku1pfva said:


> .....
> So if i take a punt on ebay I could be the proud owner of one of your knackered old saws! :wink: How come you haven't sharpened it? ...


Nice handle? I did say it needed attention so you would have been put off, I hope.


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## Mr Ed (1 Mar 2012)

scubadoo":1tn51er0 said:


> HAs anyone used the Lynx one with the beech handle from Flinn's? Just over £50
> 
> http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Lynx_T ... andle.html
> 
> At the moment I think I'm leaning towards the PAx for £70, can't really justify anymore as I won't be using it that often.



According to the lady at Flinn's the beech lynx saws don't have the refined handle shape, but the one I posted on the previous page does and is still only £50.


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## scubadoo (1 Mar 2012)

I went for the £70 Pax in the end, more than enough saw for my needs.

I totally understand the point of buying from ebay and sharpening and I'd like to learn how to do it but there're too many other things lined up to do/learn at the moment so i just wanted something i can use out of the box. 

Thanks everyone for all the advice in this and my other recent threads.


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## GazPal (2 Mar 2012)

Pax is a sound choice of a well made saw with solid backup via the manufacturer.  Here's to many years enjoyment.


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## James C (2 Mar 2012)

What size Tenon saw with what TPI do people have?

The current S&J I use is 12" @ 15tpi crosscut. Haven't got a rip or dovetail yet.


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## bugbear (2 Mar 2012)

James C":1zv9rxi9 said:


> What size Tenon saw with what TPI do people have?
> 
> The current S&J I use is 12" @ 15tpi crosscut. Haven't got a rip or dovetail yet.



12" long (IIRC), Tyzack No. 13 back saw, rip filed, graduated from 11 TPI at the toe to 9 TPI at the heel.

BugBear


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## Racers (2 Mar 2012)

Hi, BB

Filled yourself?

Just wondering if you have graduated templates? isn't that a disease :shock: :wink: 

Pete


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## Jacob (2 Mar 2012)

bugbear":1xnzg0iq said:


> James C":1xnzg0iq said:
> 
> 
> > What size Tenon saw with what TPI do people have?
> ...


Oooh very fashionable! :lol: 
I wonder if any real woodworkers would ever have used that sort of set up or is it just another bit of fantasy woodwork from the "circus"?


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## thick_mike (2 Mar 2012)

I recently re-cut the teeth and sharpened an old back saw for the first time. It goes from 12 tpi at the toe to 9 at the heel through 14 and 10 tpi in the middle (I think there are a couple of teeth at 13 tpi in there somewhere too)...Still cuts well though!

So to answer Jacobs question above, I'm sure that there are plenty of old saws with variable tpi, but not all by design.


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## Jacob (2 Mar 2012)

thick_mike":351drn2j said:


> I recently re-cut the teeth and sharpened an old back saw for the first time. It goes from 12 tpi at the toe to 9 at the heel through 14 and 10 tpi in the middle (I think there are a couple of teeth at 13 tpi in there somewhere too)...Still cuts well though!
> 
> So to answer Jacobs question above, I'm sure that there are plenty of old saws with variable tpi, but not all by design.


 :lol: 
I've got saws like that.


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## jimi43 (2 Mar 2012)

Pulled old Robert (Sorby) out yesterday to make a few more tools...and I still get a wry smile and pleasure from the fact that this gem from a master toolmaker...sharpened by a modern-day Meister...Herr Pedder....and lovingly tested by Smurfs...performs as good as anything out there.....







All that was needed was a quick trip to the DENTIST.....






Not a single variable tooth there! :mrgreen: 

Mind you....what do you expect from master craftsmen that make these little babies...






:shock: 

Jim


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## Modernist (2 Mar 2012)

Averting my gaze from the beauties below that Sorby is perfectly sharpened. Did he do that by hand?


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## jimi43 (2 Mar 2012)

Modernist":bf04sb3l said:


> Averting my gaze from the beauties below that Sorby is perfectly sharpened. Did he do that by hand?



Indeed he did.....wonderful isn't it!?






Perfect in every way.....a genius. :shock: 

Jim


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## Modernist (2 Mar 2012)

Inspired by the above and needing a rip tenon of suitable size and pitch I won this 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220963966162?ss ... 500wt_1378

At 14" and 11 tip it just needs filing to rip

A little research revealed the likely saw maker

STRAW, William	LONDON
2 (3,4) Wellington place, Greenwich road	1870-1878
34 Greenwich Road 1882

which dates it rather nicely.

No doubt he was in business to supply the local ship building industry which flourished there at the time. It looks a quality saw and it is very satisfying to know a bit of the history. At £11.78 it seems a bargain. It looks like Derbyshire may be it farthest trip North (so far).


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## Cheshirechappie (2 Mar 2012)

Modernist":1peg7hms said:


> Inspired by the above and needing a rip tenon of suitable size and pitch I won this
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/220963966162?ss ... 500wt_1378
> 
> ...



Modernist - you little tinker! You beat me by 50p!

Never mind. There'll be another one along next week, or the week after - and it's not as if I need it immediately, anyway. I hope it makes a really good saw for you - certainly looks the part in the picture. (You never know - I might even drop on a brass-backed one!)


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## Modernist (2 Mar 2012)

Cheshirechappie":5w0va0lo said:


> Modernist":5w0va0lo said:
> 
> 
> > Inspired by the above and needing a rip tenon of suitable size and pitch I won this
> ...



  Sorry about that, I got RSI in the final seconds. Good luck with the next one.
I nearly went for the very deep Tyzack but it is 12" and I wanted longer for ripping. `Still 2 days to go if you're interested.


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## jimi43 (2 Mar 2012)

That's a lovely saw guys....and less than £12.....assuming it is relatively pit free (and it looks ok) then a quick trip to a decent saw doctor and you have a gem which will last another 150 years.

I don't understand why anyone can have an issue buying old saws...the older ones from great makers are simply wonderful.

I wouldn't swap mine for two from across the Pond...maybe one from Germany.... :mrgreen: :wink: 

Jim


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## Modernist (2 Mar 2012)

jimi43":2wixj947 said:


> That's a lovely saw guys....and less than £12.....assuming it is relatively pit free (and it looks ok) then a quick trip to a decent saw doctor and you have a gem which will last another 150 years.
> 
> I don't understand why anyone can have an issue buying old saws...the older ones from great makers are simply wonderful.
> 
> ...



I tried one from across the pond and couldn't get on with it so put it back on ebay. Too light and fragile by half for me.


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## Cheshirechappie (2 Mar 2012)

Brian - no worries. I'm glad it's going to someone who will appreciate it and use it, and not end up stuffed and mounted in a glass case. The best way to preserve classic tools is for someone who has a bit of feeling for them to use them.

Jimi - I hear what you say about classic saws, and to a point I agree. However, as has been discussed further up the thread, for a newcomer a good quality new tool is no bad investment. If you are not too sure about your technique, a tool that may not be in best condition won't help - especially if you haven't yet gained the know-how to diagnose and remedy the fault.

For myself, after twenty-something years of on-and-off woodworking, and with a couple of decent (bought new) backsaws in the toolchest, it's time to dip my toe in the saw restoration pond to complete the kit. A first for me - maybe I'll discover the joys of classic saws, maybe I'll be sent muttering and cursing back to the arms of the modern manufacturers! We shall see!


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## Mr Ed (3 Mar 2012)

This may be of interest to some;

http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthread ... ed&sb=5&o=

Ed


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## Modernist (4 Mar 2012)

This is getting ridiculous. No one was bidding for 14" Disston so I paid the starting price of £9.99 and it arrives on Tuesday. It will make a matched pair with my dovetail saw although it needs a bit of tlc. The Tyzack I mentioned above went unbid. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140711997085?ss ... 129wt_1378

Plenty of meat left and, potentially a nice handle. It makes the prices of the new ones hard to justify.


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## The Wood Butcher (4 Mar 2012)

I've had a bit of an ebay saw buying frenzy this last few weeks after teaching myself how to sharpen. Let's see now:

Disston D8 Skew back panel saw 20"
Disston D8 thumb hole rip saw 28"
Disston D8 crosscut saw 26"

All above from 1900-1940

2 late-era Disston D8s, 25" and 29", probably post-war, currently rip but I'll file these crosscut

Fitzwilliam 12" sash saw, open handled, probably 1850s
Drabble and Sanderson 8" dovetail saw
Garlick and Sons 12" tenon saw

2 Eclipse saw sets, one brass and lovely, one much more recent and still in it's packaging.

Total expenditure less than £100... All of them in great condition apart from the Garlick tenon saw which has a kink the seller forgot to mention so I'll have to find someone to planish it or learn myself. It's such a nice saw that I don't want to send it back.

All built as well as or better than any modern high-end saw I've come across. The thumb-hole rip is extraordinary, 5pt, 8 degree rake, fast as a circular saw... almost... far less noisy and more accurate. It's both a shame and a goldmine that nobody wants these, I've given all of my hardpoints to my father-in-law.

Brian, I looked at that Disston you bought, but I've now got fussy about handles and I'm after only the nicest, there's so much choice on ebay that you can do that easily.


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## Jacob (4 Mar 2012)

Didn't I say it only a few posts back? Have a punt on ebay you can hardly go wrong.
There's a glut of top quality tools cropping up 2nd hand. It can't last forever.
In the meantime things like this hardly make half price, the bottom's dropped; bound to really. This has been listed twice as far as I know.


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## Modernist (4 Mar 2012)

I think it is the fear of a deepening recession. In all the years I have been looking at tools on ebay I have never seen a Disston go un-bid. As you say Jacob there is a glut and we may as well make hay while the sun shines. As for the BU smoother, probably the best smoother in the history of mass planemaking, Maybe the seller is just expecting too much. 

One problem is that much of the rest of the world is not experiencing our difficulties.

The really worrying thing is that our politicians are falling apart at the seams with internal squabbling and ar*e covering taking precedence over a policy to move us out of the current mess (not a surprise perhaps but damaging nevertheless). I don't give a toss which horse DC rode but I do object to his policy vacuum and his support of lunatics like Gove. (At least he is not in charge of health and killing us all off)


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## James C (4 Mar 2012)

Modernist":1queqz3d said:


> This is getting ridiculous. No one was bidding for 14" Disston so I paid the starting price of £9.99 and it arrives on Tuesday. It will make a matched pair with my dovetail saw although it needs a bit of tlc. The Tyzack I mentioned above went unbid.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/140711997085?ss ... 129wt_1378
> 
> Plenty of meat left and, potentially a nice handle. It makes the prices of the new ones hard to justify.



I actually almost bid on this but didn't because I wanted a saw with a brass back and was sure it would go for more than I'd pay for a steel backed saw as Disston usually go way higher.

Good bargain there.

P.S. slightly regretting that move now


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## Modernist (4 Mar 2012)

James C":3l88ucj3 said:


> Modernist":3l88ucj3 said:
> 
> 
> > This is getting ridiculous. No one was bidding for 14" Disston so I paid the starting price of £9.99 and it arrives on Tuesday. It will make a matched pair with my dovetail saw although it needs a bit of tlc. The Tyzack I mentioned above went unbid.
> ...



There were 1 or 2 similar so you should not be without for long. I have a couple of brass backs (S & J Professional are good but need a decent handle)- but hey, it's a Disston for less than a tenner, can't be bad. Good luck with the bidding.


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## James C (5 Mar 2012)

Thanks there are around 10-12 saws in my watch list so who knows.


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## bugbear (5 Mar 2012)

jimi43":3dadlkdo said:


> I don't understand why anyone can have an issue buying old saws...the older ones from great makers are simply wonderful.



I wouldn't buy from eBay - car boots are cheaper (saws are swines to post) and loose handles and kinked blades are tiresome to say the least, and not always honestly reported.

Old saws are - as you say - often splendid. I have none other.

BugBear


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## Jacob (5 Mar 2012)

bugbear":1c714c9h said:


> ...- car boots are cheaper


Not if you value your time! I never bother unless I happen to be passing.


> (saws are swines to post)....


 Couldn't be simpler - just fold stiff cardboard around it and fix with parcel tape. If it's valuable just fold more cardboard around it


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## Sawyer (5 Mar 2012)

The Wood Butcher":1ushaibn said:


> Total expenditure less than £100... All of them in great condition apart from the Garlick tenon saw which has a kink the seller forgot to mention so I'll have to find someone to planish it or learn myself. It's such a nice saw that I don't want to send it back.
> 
> .


Does anybody have any experience of planishing kinks out of saws? I've attempted this without being overly successful; but would like to know how to do it properly.

When I've attempted this the saw has (or so I like to tell myself), better than it was before but I have never achieved a truly satisfactory result.


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## GazPal (5 Mar 2012)

Sawyer":3pu6ac4w said:


> The Wood Butcher":3pu6ac4w said:
> 
> 
> > Total expenditure less than £100... All of them in great condition apart from the Garlick tenon saw which has a kink the seller forgot to mention so I'll have to find someone to planish it or learn myself. It's such a nice saw that I don't want to send it back.
> ...




Here's a link which may help you out. It's far easier than trying to explain things from scratch  

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread. ... saw-Blades


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## Sawyer (5 Mar 2012)

Thanks Gary, that should keep me out of trouble for a while.


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## GazPal (5 Mar 2012)

Sawyer":1oqbva1u said:


> Thanks Gary, that should keep me out of trouble for a while.



Never a problem :wink: It's sound advice too, so should help


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## Jacob (7 Mar 2012)

This is good on sharpening. 
http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html
That little angle guide thing works well. 
It also helps to felt-tip over the teeth after they have been levelled and before re-shaping, as it helps you see where you have been.


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## GazPal (7 Mar 2012)

Jacob":3f8gox9m said:


> This is good on sharpening.
> http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html
> That little angle guide thing works well.
> *It also helps to felt-tip over the teeth after they have been levelled and before re-shaping, as it helps you see where you have been*.



Or soot the blade :wink:


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## bugbear (8 Mar 2012)

GazPal":2jt9wxsv said:


> Jacob":2jt9wxsv said:
> 
> 
> > This is good on sharpening.
> ...



If you can't see the teeth shape well enough not to need this, I'd recommend improving your magnification and/or lighting.

BugBear


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## GazPal (8 Mar 2012)

bugbear":3gem42pg said:


> GazPal":3gem42pg said:
> 
> 
> > Jacob":3gem42pg said:
> ...



Good lighting is a must when saw sharpening, but magnification isn't unless the teeth are minute or eye sight issues exist. However, sooting or blackening is a simple and inexpensive "trick of the trade" that helps a sharpener keep track of his/her progress and can be used when jointing to help indicate when all teeth have been tipped. I've perfectly good eyesight - fortunately - but been using this simply trick since first learning to sharpen saws during my early teens over 40yrs ago.


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