# Astronomy and Cosmology.



## Andy Kev. (27 Dec 2020)

Over the past three or so years I have found myself becoming increasingly interested in astronomy or more specifically, cosmology. While I find it hard to raise a flicker of interest in the moon or the planets, galaxies and the structures and processes involved in them are a source of mind boggling interest.

I know that we can work the numbers for the cosmos but I think the scale of the reality is beyond the imagination of human beings (after all, we evolved to live on a small bit of our planet). I can't really envision the size of our galaxy, nor can I grasp the number of stars in it.

Does anybody else find this to be a source of wonder?


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## Sandyn (27 Dec 2020)

Yes, It is mind blowing!! I'm scared of heights, but I think nothing of going outside , looking up at the sky. At that moment, I'm dangling into infinity held only by a force we don't fully understand, but if I did 'fall' it would take a while before I hit anything. The thing I really find amazing is everything you know and see, everything in the universe, was compressed into a bubble a fraction the size of a pinhead, just before the big bang. We were all in there together!!!!


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## Fitzroy (27 Dec 2020)

Yes I do! You can also go the other way and be astonished when you try to consider how small an atom is and how many molecules there are in even the smallest thing. Each breath you take is likely to contain a molecule from Cesar’s last breath. Look that one up.


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## Fitzroy (27 Dec 2020)

Oh and of course we are all made of stardust, that’s the other fact I love that relates to the universe.


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## D_W (28 Dec 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> Over the past three or so years I have found myself becoming increasingly interested in astronomy or more specifically, cosmology. While I find it hard to raise a flicker of interest in the moon or the planets, galaxies and the structures and processes involved in them are a source of mind boggling interest.
> 
> I know that we can work the numbers for the cosmos but I think the scale of the reality is beyond the imagination of human beings (after all, we evolved to live on a small bit of our planet). I can't really envision the size of our galaxy, nor can I grasp the number of stars in it.
> 
> Does anybody else find this to be a source of wonder?



Yes, as with the likely origins of iron on our planet, etc, and how far along we probably are in time vs. how much is left. Things like quasars, neutron stars, etc, supernovae - super interesting. 

I took an astronomy class in college and I remember at the time that the thought was there would be no binary systems with planets in them, and I believe now (haven't looked in a while) that we have identified binary systems with planets in them. I recall my professor saying that planets would just be "flung out" of a binary solar system (this was 1995).


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## Terrytpot (28 Dec 2020)

My preferred reading for entertainment is Sci-Fi stuff and some of it is extremely clever if not downright spooky in its prescience in that it can describe something way before we come to actually achieve it and think of it as run of the mill. Azimov was a master at this and is widely credited as the "Father of Robotics" for his creative output in an era when a computer was small if it could just fit inside a single room and robots were not just unheard of but regarded as a ridiculous subject for serious contemplation. I particularly enjoyed his "Foundation" series:








Foundation series - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org




which over the course of several novels spanned a time scale of 20,000 years but managed to remain in our galaxy as it was large enough for the events to all fit without having to "step outside" of it.


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## Terry - Somerset (28 Dec 2020)

The ancients used to look in wonderment at the night sky - even our own sun, moon and an eclipse were remarkable.

We have now grown so used to having explanations for all kinds of phenomena once perceived as incredible, that we now believe there is an explanation for all things.

This IMHO extends to cosmology. I believe Holmes once said to Watson that: "once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth"

Theories related to singularities, dark matter, quarks etc conform to the Holmesian proposition - no matter how improbable, (they) must be the truth. 

I just find them implausible - on one level I have to accept that clever people with brains the size of planets are convinced - but I remain obviously ignorant and unconvinced.

I do have a greater interest in science related to the very small - made far more relevant by covid, vaccines, cell and virus structures etc.


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## Rorschach (28 Dec 2020)

I don't believe in all that rubbish, a typical Aries.


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## Starflyer (28 Dec 2020)

My main hobby (obsession) is taking photos of the night sky, from both my heavily light polluted garden or occasionally from darker skies when I go off camping.

One of the reasons for me joining this forum is that I intend to build my own roll off roof observatory next year and I'll need plenty of help and advice.

There's a few of my pics here if anyone's interested. I'm aware that people get a glazed look in their eyes when I start talking about my images though


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## tradesman (28 Dec 2020)

stunning pictures


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## doctor Bob (28 Dec 2020)

The amazing thing is (in my opinion) it will all collapse again to a pinhead and start again, how many big bangs have there been so far, could be 1 or an infinate number


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## Sandyn (28 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> There's a few of my pics here if anyone's interested. I'm aware that people get a glazed look in their eyes when I start talking about my images though


These pictures are stunning!!!!! some of the best I have ever seen. What equipment do you use? I guess you have a cooled camera and a tracking telescope?? and probably a lot more?


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## Tris (28 Dec 2020)

Those photos are brilliant. I've been a keen back garden sky watcher for years. Can't make any claim to understanding cosmology but I like the fact that I can see light that originated before humans existed, very good at putting your own problems into perspective.


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## Andy Kev. (28 Dec 2020)

It's interesting to see that so many people find it fascinating. My guide in this area is a book called _An Introduction to Galaxies and Cosmology_ by Jones, Lambourne and Serjeant. It doesn't hold back on the maths but the beauty of it is that it is not strictly necessary to be able to do the maths to understand the book. In other words, if you can't do sums, the text, diagrams and pictures will get you there.

Starflyer: those are wonderful pictures. There was somebody selling prints of the Andromeda galaxy in the classifieds of Private Eye a few months back. Unfortunately they were a bit pricey. Yours are easily in the same league.


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## Starflyer (28 Dec 2020)

Sandyn said:


> These pictures are stunning!!!!! some of the best I have ever seen. What equipment do you use? I guess you have a cooled camera and a tracking telescope?? and probably a lot more?



Thank you.

Most were taken with a dedicated, cooled astronomy camera, it's monochrome and special filters allow me to 'cut through' the light pollution. The mount tracks the sky and allows me to image the same object over multiple nights, a lot of these objects are very faint and need several hours of total exposure.


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## billw (28 Dec 2020)

Those pictures are incredible - the universe is so beautiful and that's just the stuff we can see. I do often wonder what else is out there, and how far away it might be.


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## Andy Kev. (28 Dec 2020)

Here's another YouTube link which gives a good idea of the enormity of it all:


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## Deadeye (28 Dec 2020)

This is neat





Scale of the Universe: Discover the vast ranges of our visible and invisible world.


Scale of Universe is an interactive experience to inspire people to learn about the vast ranges of the visible and invisible world.




scaleofuniverse.com


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## stuartpaul (28 Dec 2020)

It is indeed a fascinating subject and one I willing admit to knowing very little about. I always find myself asking ‘how do they know what really happened?’. Much of it is just (very) educated guesswork but surely that’s what it is?

About 12 years ago I was fortunate enough to spend time down the Grand Canyon and spent many hours staring up at the night sky, the most beautiful I’ve ever seen.


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## Andy Kev. (28 Dec 2020)

stuartpaul said:


> It is indeed a fascinating subject and one I willing admit to knowing very little about. I always find myself asking ‘how do they know what really happened?’. Much of it is just (very) educated guesswork but surely that’s what it is?
> 
> About 12 years ago I was fortunate enough to spend time down the Grand Canyon and spent many hours staring up at the night sky, the most beautiful I’ve ever seen.


It's a bit more than just guesswork but to convince yourself of that, you have to delve into the science a little bit. For instance, you can work out if a star or a galaxy is moving towards you or away from you by observing something called the "Red Shift". If a star is moving away from you, it looks a bit redder than if it were standing still relative to you and if it's moving towards you, it looks a bit bluer. It's the application of this principle (amongst other things) that led them to realise that the universe is expanding.

As far as I can see (and if anybody knows better, then please correct), guesswork only comes into it once you get beyond a thing called the "Event Horizon" of a black hole. That's the diameter around the hole from which light cannot escape and it is effectively the point where things like the laws of relativity just don't work any more. Everything else i.e. the things we can see and measure have so far confirmed Einstein's theory of relativity.


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## heronviewer (28 Dec 2020)

Amazing and wonderful photography !


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## Anthraquinone (28 Dec 2020)

I was a research chemist in a previous stage of my life and have always been fascinated by cosmology. I hope I will still be here when the mystery of dark matter / modified gravity is solved. The origin of the elements has always been of special interest starting with how the sun works and Fred Hoyle's work on the triple alpha process using anthropic reasoning. The fact that virtually all the elements, except hydrogen, that make our bodies was manufactured in a star has always amazed me but more than that the gold in my wedding ring originated in a super nova is just mind blowing. 

Another of my hopes is that I live to see the super nova that will happen when Betelgeuse goes off. Each time I look at Orion in the winter sky I want to count down 3, 2, 1, NOW !!! 

If you are reading this thread you probably know of the A.P.O.D. web site - if not look it up. The attached "origin of the elements" file came from there

AQ


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## billw (28 Dec 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> Here's another YouTube link which gives a good idea of the enormity of it all:




I think I lost the concept of scale before it even got to the end of the first bit. Bodies that are millions of km across, yet in the space of a few seconds in that video become meaninglessly small.


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## Stanleymonkey (28 Dec 2020)

I remember watching clips of the early discoveries - just from looking at such small areas of the sky.



From about 2:40 onwards


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## Stanleymonkey (28 Dec 2020)

I've shown that Star Size Comparison video to so many classes.

You can see their brains exploding! They ask to watch it again and again for weeks.


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## Sandyn (28 Dec 2020)

In science, guesswork is known as a 'theory'


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## DrPhill (28 Dec 2020)

Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving, and revolving at 900 miles an hour.....

As for guesswork v science: Science is our current best explanation for the phenomenon we observe based on some root assumptions:

The universe behaves in a consistent manner across time and space ('laws of science'). Our descriptions of remote galaxies etc rely on the assumption that the 'laws of science' hold there, and everywhere between here and there. They assume that the did hold there when the light that we see started its long journey towards us, and that it still holds there, although we might not know for thousands of years....
Humans beings are capable of perceiving these rules
Human beings are capable of understanding these rules.
These are reasonable assumptions, and necessary in order to begin to construct the theories, but there can be no justification for these assumptions other than necessity. If the way light (electromagnetic radiation) behaves is radically different in other parts of the universe we would not know - and would be trying to interpret what we see in an inappropriate manner.

Also remember that dark matter - stuff we cannot see/detect/explain - but is necessary to explain the universe makes up maybe 85% of the universe (Dark matter - Wikipedia). Add in Dark energy (energy we cannot explain, detect) and you can see that most of the universe is not even included in our theories.

Min-boggling indeed.


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## Vinn (28 Dec 2020)

In terms of trying to imagine the scale of things (or at least realising that we're just not in a position to), I use this thought process:

*Imagine travelling at 100mph*
most people have experienced something close to this in their car​*Imagine travelling at 1000 mph *
most people have been in a plane travelling at half this speed, although it's very difficult to judge speed because you are so far from anything fixed​*Imagine travelling at 35,000 mph*
this is roughly the current speed of Voyager 2 spacecraft launched in the 70's and only just escaped the outer reaches of the Solar system. At this speed you could get from London to the South of France in about one minute!​​Now you have tried to imagine that speed, then realise that it would take *Voyager 2 another 81,000 years to get to the NEAREST star*, Proxima Centuri.

So now you have an unimaginable speed and an unimaginable length of time - try to picture those 80,000 years if you can, although that pales into insignificance when you think the dinosaurs became extinct 65,000,000 years ago, another factor of a thousand.

All the numbers become ridiculous to comprehend.

*That's just the NEAREST star*, which is extremely close compared with other stars, even those in our galaxy.

I used to be interested in cosmology, but just gave up when I realised the scales are so far away from everyday life that's futile to even try to understand. 

Interesting to do the maths though...

Cheers


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## Sandyn (28 Dec 2020)

A couple of months ago, whilst having a break during a cycle ride, I was interviewed for a YouTube TV channel by a flat earther. I respect that anyone can believe what they want, but it was a very interesting conversation.


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## Duncan A (28 Dec 2020)

Sandyn said:


> A couple of months ago, whilst having a break during a cycle ride, I was interviewed for a YouTube TV channel by a flat earther. I respect that anyone can believe what they want, but it was a very interesting conversation.


Was the cycle ride nice and flat?


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## Sandyn (28 Dec 2020)

Duncan A said:


> Was the cycle ride nice and flat?


Yes, until I fell off the edge!


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## Nigel Burden (28 Dec 2020)

Stunning pictures.

Just to give some idea of scale, the link below relates to our Solar System.

If the Moon Were Only 1 Pixel - A tediously accurate map of the solar system (joshworth.com) 

Nigel.


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## Starflyer (28 Dec 2020)

Thanks to all for your kind comments on my images, in the New Year I'll start the planning and drawings for my meagre observatory.

If anyone's interested;
This build thread, amongst others on Star Gazers Lounge, has been my inspiration. It's more framing and construction than fine cabinet making, but my woodworking skills are fairly basic at the moment.


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## Anthraquinone (28 Dec 2020)

Sandyn said


> In science, guesswork is known as a 'theory'



That is so so wrong. Why cannot people use the English language correctly.

AQ


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## Sandyn (28 Dec 2020)

Anthraquinone said:


> That is so so wrong. Why cannot people use the English language correctly.


Im Scottish. I don't generally use 'The English Language'


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## Bm101 (28 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> There's a few of my pics here if anyone's interested. I'm aware that people get a glazed look in their eyes when I start talking about my images though


Just incredible! I was going to point you towards an old thread (New toy...this could become an expensive hobby! )by Jim Hendrix but when I looked it up to get a link you were already there so you must be travelling at a fair rate of knots. By the time I originally read that thread it had already finished and Jim wasn't even a member anymore. Confusing stuff time travel.
When I read Bill Bryson's Short History of Everything he was fairly sympathetic with a brain like mine trying to understand BIG numbers. That's my excuse.
We went to Cape Verde year before last. The night sky made me punch drunk. Ok sometimes I was _actually_ a little drunk but nevertheless, never having travelled that close to the equator and somewhere that dark at night, it was genuinely as_tounding. _


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## Danieljw (29 Dec 2020)

Aaah! Eureka.. 
The reason most home woodworking projects go slightly adrift.
We're too busy star gazing... lol.
Wonderful pictures


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## Sandyn (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> The mount tracks the sky and allows me to image the same object over multiple nights


I have done some very simple night photography, but with just a 400mm lens, so the moon is still very small. It always amazes me how fast the moon moves across the field of view. You have some amazing shots of craters on the moon (Clavius). Do you use the the mount to track for those? What magnification did you use and what length of exposure for those?


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## Jacob (29 Dec 2020)

I did astro navigation on a sailing course years ago. Still got the sextant! Was fascinating without a doubt.
Not used it much latterly though I can still recognise a few constellations; "find the plough, arc to Arcturus then I spy Spica" etc


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## Steve C (29 Dec 2020)

Amateur astronomer as well. Not as good as some of the earlier on here but these are some of mine.


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

To the original poster. If you are making a telescope or an observatory you wiĺl probably have the three volumes of ATM. You should find all you need to help build your 'man cave' for astronomy. Even in an out of date edition of ATM. There's also YouTube of course.

HTH

Just reminded me...
On a high shelf in my shop I have a 6 inch (150mm dia. ) one-inch thick, plate glass Newtonian mirror, part polished. It needs to be taken back to fine grind. It is in a wooden box, screwed down and is easily accessible to a fit person! I would sooner see it find an appropriate home. I don't know what it would cost to buy these days, but not cheap I would think. So it is FTAGH, if you don't mind climbing on a step ladder to get it down.

Let me know.

John


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

I bought myself a pair of 70mm binoculars, in time for the Jupiter/Saturn conjunction. Result? Cloudy right through the window of missed opportunity. And now it's snowing a hoolie here! . 
.

John


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

We are all part of the Universe itself. We chose to come here and experience humanity for ourselves. When we 'die' we just go back to the Universe. Whatever we do, we must first love ourselves, before we can love anyone else. What ever we want out of life we must ask the Universe for, and as long as you tell yourself that you are living in the feeling of a 'wish fulfilled', then what you ask for will come your way! That's a way of saying whatever you see in the 'real' world, couldn't have existed, without first being 'imagined', or thought of, and your perception of the 'real world' is particular to you, because everything you see is from your subconscious, and is just you, pushed out. It's your unique perception becoming your reality! !

Does that sound ridiculous? No more so than the stories you find in the Holy Bible... 

What to call the Universe? God I suppose. The rest of my post is a point of view; and no I haven't flipped. Nor is it necessarily my POV! 

How's that for a can of worms?

John


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## Jacob (29 Dec 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> We are all part of the Universe itself. We chose to come here and experience humanity for ourselves. When we 'die' we just go back to the Universe. Whatever we do, we must first love ourselves, before we can love anyone else. What ever we want out of life we must ask the Universe for, and as long as you tell yourself that you are living in the feeling of a 'wish fulfilled', then what you ask for will come your way! That's a way of saying whatever you see in the 'real' world, couldn't have existed, without first being 'imagined', or thought of, and your perception of the 'real world' is particular to you, because everything you see is from your subconscious, and is just you, pushed out. It's your unique perception becoming your reality! !
> 
> Does that sound ridiculous? No more so than the stories you find in the Holy Bible...
> 
> ...


I can't remember choosing to come here but I'll choose to stay if that's on offer!


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

billw said:


> Those pictures are incredible - the universe is so beautiful and that's just the stuff we can see. I do often wonder what else is out there, and how far away it might be.



Fully agree Bill. 

I once wooed a girl by showing her where in the sky, her birth-sign was. (in the 1950s) This only works if the girl doesn't already know! In which case you have to be able to tell her other facts about her particular sign! Like that it takes 65 years for the light from Aldebaran (Tauri Alpha) to reach Earth. Those facts really wowed her, especially when I showed her what I called my 'Cuddling Star'; (Sirius. ) I was a bit of a crafty dog you know! 

John


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

Jacob said:


> I can't remember choosing to come here but I'll choose to stay if that's on offer!


I can't remember being born either Jacob. But don't worry, apparently you get another choice if you want to come back; courtesy of the Universe. 

I just got fed up with spam from the Law of Attraction believers, that I decided to find out more about it. So again, I haven't flipped. I just find it no more 'out there' than any other unfounded belief! 

John


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## sploo (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer's excellent images are what I aspire to be able to reproduce. I've done a bit of astro shooting with a small mount (Skywatcher Star Adventurer and a DSLR) but plan to build a tracking mount for a "proper" telescope. One day anyway!

It's the scale that astounds me; you get a long exposure shot at what (in normal camera terms) would be considered a super-telephoto focal length, and the galaxy you're after only takes up a small bit of the frame. Zoom in, and you realise there are even more distant galaxies (as tiny smudges).


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## gregmcateer (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> My main hobby (obsession) is taking photos of the night sky, from both my heavily light polluted garden or occasionally from darker skies when I go off camping.
> 
> One of the reasons for me joining this forum is that I intend to build my own roll off roof observatory next year and I'll need plenty of help and advice.
> 
> There's a few of my pics here if anyone's interested. I'm aware that people get a glazed look in their eyes when I start talking about my images though



Love your photos. I assume the sun one is time lapse with a satellite passing it. How long between images?


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## raffo (29 Dec 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> The amazing thing is (in my opinion) it will all collapse again to a pinhead and start again, how many big bangs have there been so far, could be 1 or an infinate number


Not likely, they think the universe is expanding at an accelerating pace. So no Big Crunch.


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## raffo (29 Dec 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> As far as I can see (and if anybody knows better, then please correct), guesswork only comes into it once you get beyond a thing called the "Event Horizon" of a black hole.



It's not guesswork, but simply that the laws of physics used in normal situations do not apply in these regions. Not because it's a different reality but simply because if you plug in the numbers you get infinities, and getting infinities tells you something is wrong with your formulas.


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## doctor Bob (29 Dec 2020)

raffo said:


> Not likely, they think the universe is expanding at an accelerating pace. So no Big Crunch.



Indeed but only at present, I suspect we will never know, man is a fraction of a nano second of existance in universe time. To understand even a tiny bit in that time scale is awesome. I suspect we are not the first planet of life and certainly not the last.


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## raffo (29 Dec 2020)

doctor Bob said:


> Indeed but only at present, I suspect we will never know, man is a fraction of a nano second of existance in universe time. To understand even a tiny bit in that time scale is awesome. I suspect we are not the first planet of life and certainly not the last.



I should also mention that recent studies put in doubt the conclusions of the accelerating universe. Apparently, the statistical confidence of the original studies is not as strong. Look up Subir Sarkar out of Oxford University (Marginal evidence for cosmic acceleration from Type Ia supernovae).


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## Starflyer (29 Dec 2020)

Sandyn said:


> I have done some very simple night photography, but with just a 400mm lens, so the moon is still very small. It always amazes me how fast the moon moves across the field of view. You have some amazing shots of craters on the moon (Clavius). Do you use the the mount to track for those? What magnification did you use and what length of exposure for those?



Everything is taken with the tracking mount otherwise it's hard work trying to keep even the moon in the FOV. The close-ups of the moon are taken with a Newtonian reflector with a focal length of 1200mm, with a 2x barlow lens attached that doubles that focal length, it's essentially acting as a 2.4m lens.

A high frame rate, very sensitive, video camera grabs a few dozen frames a second into a video file for a few minutes. A clever piece of software analyses the video searching for fleeting periods of least turbulence in the atmosphere. It grades every frame of the thousands taken by sharpness and stacks the best twenty or thirty percent. This results in a sharper image with less noise.

I'm very proud of the Clavius image by the way, check the comments on Flickr.


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## Starflyer (29 Dec 2020)

Steve C said:


> Amateur astronomer as well. Not as good as some of the earlier on here but these are some of mine.


Nice images Steve, M101 & M51?


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## Andy Kev. (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> Everything is taken with the tracking mount otherwise it's hard work trying to keep even the moon in the FOV. The close-ups of the moon are taken with a Newtonian reflector with a focal length of 1200mm, with a 2x barlow lens attached that doubles that focal length, it's essentially acting as a 2.4m lens.
> 
> A high frame rate, very sensitive, video camera grabs a few dozen frames a second into a video file for a few minutes. A clever piece of software analyses the video searching for fleeting periods of least turbulence in the atmosphere. It grades every frame of the thousands taken by sharpness and stacks the best twenty or thirty percent. This results in a sharper image with less noise.


I buy the odd astronomy magazine and when I read the astrophotography bits my mind glazes over because it looks like you have to be quite seriously competent with a computer in order to get the final images. Is that the case or is it more like a couple of clicks and the computer just gets on with it?

I think that it's quite remarkable that these days an amateur can produce pictures of galaxies such as yours which I suspect even the pros would not have been able to get as recently as 50 years ago.


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## Sandyn (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> A clever piece of software analyses the video searching for fleeting periods of least turbulence in the atmosphere


I thought you must have used something like that. The sharpness and contrast is amazing. There is some exceptionally clever software for image manipulation.


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## Starflyer (29 Dec 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> To the original poster. If you are making a telescope or an observatory you wiĺl probably have the three volumes of ATM. You should find all you need to help build your 'man cave' for astronomy. Even in an out of date edition of ATM. There's also YouTube of course.
> 
> HTH
> 
> ...



Thanks for the kind offer John, but I don't have the patience to grind my own mirror. If you want to find a good home for it the forum I linked to has a good few members who grind their own.


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## Bm101 (29 Dec 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> I think that it's quite remarkable that these days an amateur can produce pictures of galaxies such as yours which I suspect even the pros would not have been able to get as recently as 50 years ago.


What I find brain frazzling (despite computer enhancement) is that my Grandfather, a sailor, who rounded the horn, worked on factory ships after harpooning whales and came from a small farm in North Wales, would have looked up at stars in the southern hemisphere from South Georgia and rolled up his golden virginia tobacco and most likely had his mind blown by looking at the Milky Way from a ship in the middle of the southern ocean. Just 2 short generations later I'm 'talking' to people on the internet about it while looking at pictures of astral events that one man has taken from his back garden, 
Seriously.
Time is slipping through my fingers faster than I can breathe here.


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## Starflyer (29 Dec 2020)

gregmcateer said:


> Love your photos. I assume the sun one is time lapse with a satellite passing it. How long between images?



It's a composite created from a video of the ISS passing in front of the sun, taken with a special solar scope, at 17fps it took 0.9s to travel across the disc.


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## Starflyer (29 Dec 2020)

Andy Kev. said:


> I buy the odd astronomy magazine and when I read the astrophotography bits my mind glazes over because it looks like you have to be quite seriously competent with a computer in order to get the final images. Is that the case or is it more like a couple of clicks and the computer just gets on with it?
> 
> I think that it's quite remarkable that these days an amateur can produce pictures of galaxies such as yours which I suspect even the pros would not have been able to get as recently as 50 years ago.



I've been at it for twelve years and had an interest in both IT and photography before that, I'd say what I do now is fairly technical and processing the data is as challenging as capturing the raw images.

That said, you don't have to go to the lengths I do to get a few decent images. These two were taken with a camera phone held against the eyepiece of a basic manual telescope.


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## Andy Kev. (29 Dec 2020)

Thanks for that. While I know my way around a camera, I'm not keen on fiddling with a computer and photo processing software is baffling at the best of times. Were I ever to get into astrophotography, I think I would be only interested in pics like yours of galaxies and nebulae, so given the foregoing, it's just not going to happen. I could probably get my head around using a telescope with camera both hooked up to a laptop but processing the images would almost certainly be beyond me. So it looks like my role in astrophotography will be strictly that of consumer.

Maybe they'll put the Hubble thing on Ebay once they get a better one. I'd probably offer a grand for that and with that capability, I'd probably even be motivated to learn how to use photoshop.


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## Jacob (29 Dec 2020)

Lovely. Nice full moon tonight.


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## Bm101 (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> I've been at it for twelve years and had an interest in both IT and photography before that, I'd say what I do now is fairly technical and processing the data is as challenging as capturing the raw images.
> 
> That said, you don't have to go to the lengths I do to get a few decent images. These two were taken with a camera phone held against the eyepiece of a basic manual telescope.
> 
> ...


Starflyer you should do a talk on youtube. There would be many fascinated souls interested. I'd love to be be bored to death!


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> Thanks for the kind offer John, but I don't have the patience to grind my own mirror. If you want to find a good home for it the forum I linked to has a good few members who grind their own.


Thanks Star! The offer is open to anyone of course. I'll contact starlounge too.

John


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## Steve C (30 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> Nice images Steve, M101 & M51?


Yep start rails are fun too


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## Steve C (30 Dec 2020)

Starflyer said:


> I've been at it for twelve years and had an interest in both IT and photography before that, I'd say what I do now is fairly technical and processing the data is as challenging as capturing the raw images.
> 
> That said, you don't have to go to the lengths I do to get a few decent images. These two were taken with a camera phone held against the eyepiece of a basic manual telescope.
> 
> ...


The processing is half the game stacking and enhancing. Like you have an IT background but this is about all I use the computer for now.


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## TRITON (30 Dec 2020)

Theres a coincidence, i was watching the hubble vid again just the other day. Clearly we're not alone.

I wonder though if we're considered to be a backwater, or perhaps rural, in cosmic civilization terms..


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## billw (30 Dec 2020)

If the universe is expanding, what it is expanding into and what was previously there?


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## billw (30 Dec 2020)

TRITON said:


> I wonder though if we're considered to be a backwater, or perhaps rural, in cosmic civilization terms..



It's like in films where aliens inevitably abduct people from rural American farms as if those people are literally the dumbest specimens on Eart....ooooooh wait....


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## Trainee neophyte (30 Dec 2020)

DrPhill said:


> Also remember that dark matter - stuff we cannot see/detect/explain - but is necessary to explain the universe makes up maybe 85% of the universe (Dark matter - Wikipedia).


If I cannot see/detect/explain 85% of my answer, I tend to assume that my calculation is wrong. Coming up with convoluted explanations that "85% of the washing up is invisible, so doesn't need to be washed" tends not to hold water with the other half.

Cosmology is so much better than real life, as reality is tenuous at best.


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## billw (30 Dec 2020)

Trainee neophyte said:


> If I cannot see/detect/explain 85% of my answer, I tend to assume that my calculation is wrong. Coming up with convoluted explanations that "85% of the washing up is invisible, so doesn't need to be washed" tends not to hold water with the other half.
> 
> Cosmology is so much better than real life, as reality is tenuous at best.



Maybe 85% is actually invisible which explains all the cutlery and plates that go missing over the years.


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## Anthraquinone (30 Dec 2020)

> If the universe is expanding, what it is expanding into and what was previously there?



It is difficult to get your head round it at first but the universe is not expanding INTO anything. It is just expanding. Other difficult things to grasp as first are how can it be expanding faster than light - The speed of light is a limit only inside the universe. Or where did the big bang happen - on the tip of you nose and everywhere else in the universe.

AQ


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## Andy Kev. (3 Jan 2021)

Further to the conversation so far, I typed "Hubble Latest Images" into google and amongst many other quite stunning pics, I stumbled on this:






I find it to be almost hypnotic in its beauty (if beauty is the correct word).


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