# British Woodworking magazine offer



## Nick Gibbs (20 Jul 2007)

I am launching a new magazine this week (26th July), called British Woodworking. The launch issue has a feature about forums and particularly UKWorkshop.

If you can pay by PayPal, and email me by Sunday night, we are offering the launch issue for £3.20 (normal price £3.30) with no postage charge. 

All you have to do is email me that you want to take us up on this offer and I will contact you through PayPal.

Thanks. I hope you enjoy British Woodworking.

Nick

PS Charley has given me permission to post this topic!


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## darren242 (20 Jul 2007)

sounds good to me but i dont have a paypal account, i can get a mate to purchase on my behalf but before i do is there any other method of payment.

thanks


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## The Welsh Workshop (20 Jul 2007)

Maybe this link will help!!!!

http://www.britishwoodworking.com/Home.html


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## Anonymous (20 Jul 2007)

Nick Gibbs":1fz06fux said:


> I am launching a new magazine this week (26th July), called British Woodworking. The launch issue has a feature about forums and particularly UKWorkshop.
> 
> If you can pay by PayPal, and email me by Sunday night, we are offering the launch issue for £3.20 (normal price £3.30) with no postage charge.



Is this a mis-print, if it isn't I wonder what I could buy with the money I would save,.... errrm ... I know half a pencil or maybe 5 buscuits. :lol:


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## motownmartin (20 Jul 2007)

senior":2iww8lzm said:


> Nick Gibbs":2iww8lzm said:
> 
> 
> > I am launching a new magazine this week (26th July), called British Woodworking. The launch issue has a feature about forums and particularly UKWorkshop.
> ...


As much as that.

I think he meant £2.30 he got the numbers the wrong way round, or could it be £0.23 :lol: 

Martin


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

No I did mean £3.20. You're right, a 10p saving does sound piffling, but it was meant as a gesture and small incentive while trying not to undervalue my product.


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Ooops, sorry Nick.


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Happily forgiven! We magazine folk sometimes misunderstand the language/tone that 's used in forums, so apologies if I'm a bit over-sensitive.


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## motownmartin (21 Jul 2007)

It's all tongue in cheek Nick, well, most of it :roll: 

Martin


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## paulm (21 Jul 2007)

Thanks for letting us know about the new venture Nick, looking forwards to the first copy, paypal details sent.

Cheers, Paul.


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

I'm confused. It's called British EDIT: Woodworking, yet your first issue features 'gadgets & Jig's from America and Candada - I find that a bit odd and not really 'on message' with the magazine title.

I will however buy the first issue to see if it's better than all the other (and IMO poor) wood related magazines.

Congratulations on your launch, i'm sure it's not an easy thing to do.


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Hi Byron

An interesting point and I have a confession. The article looking at America and Canada didn't make it into the first issue. But not because we wouldn't put it there, but just because we ran out of time. 

In fact, just because we call ourselves British Woodworking doesn't mean we can't have an eye out for what's going on around the world, just as the BBC does. 

I hope you enjoy the first issue. If you'd like to buy a copy through PayPal I can easily organise that for the massively discounted price of £3.20!

Cheers

Nick


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## Paul.J (21 Jul 2007)

*Byron Black wrote*
It's called British Woodworker, yet your first issue features 'gadgets & Jig's from America and Candada 
Still good to see what other woodworkers abroad,especially from the states and Canada do,and use.Just for ideas.
Paul.J.


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Thanks, Paul. That's what we think at British Woodworking.

Nick


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

I can understand the appeal of whats going on in other parts of the globe - thats why I watch wood whisperer ,and belong to a number of other forums. But every other magazine features stuff from all over, so i can't see what makes this one any different/better than whats already out there - but as mentioned, i'll not pass a judgement until after i've read the first issue.


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Thanks. I guess, to a certain degree, it depends how well that reporting is done. We may, or may not, have achieved it in the first issue, but certainly our aim is to produce a magazine with the highest calibre of writing anywhere. That, at least, is our aim.

By the way, how do you do a quote on a forum? Everyone else except me seems to know how they are inserted!!!!

Thanks

Nick


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Is there any particular point in this magazine? USP? A niche of some sort?
10p off is not an incentive :lol: but I might consider accepting a free copy and could write an unbiased review in return.

cheers
Jacob


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## Mike.C (21 Jul 2007)

> ByronBlack
> 
> I'm confused. It's called British EDIT: Woodworking, yet your first issue features 'gadgets & Jig's from America and Candada - I find that a bit odd and not really 'on message' with the magazine title.



Whats confusing about that. I would have thought that there are a great many "British Woodworkers" who use "Gadgets & Jigs" from the US and Canada, and I for one will be happy to see what is going on, on the other side of the pond.



> ByronBlack,
> 
> I can understand the appeal of whats going on in other parts of the globe - thats why I watch wood whisperer ,and belong to a number of other forums. But every other magazine features stuff from all over, so i can't see what makes this one any different/better than whats already out there - but as mentioned, i'll not pass a judgement until after i've read the first issue.



So you are saying that just because other magazines do this sort of feature, British Woodworking should ignore it? They feature wood too, should they ignore that? If you read it properly they are asking if the best gadgets and jigs come from the US and Canada.

Nick good luck mate, I am sure British Woodworking will be an excellent magazine, and if it is I will be taking out a subscription.

Cheers

Mike


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

I think Byron is asking the same question as me in a roundabout way i.e what's the point of this magazine?
Hmm gadgets and jigs :lol: that's original, I just can't wait :roll: 
Seriously though - if someone produced a magazine which entirely avoided gadgets, jigs and few other things I could suggest, they might be on to something interesting.

cheers
Jacob


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## motownmartin (21 Jul 2007)

Nick Gibbs":2cwbhgmx said:


> By the way, how do you do a quote on a forum? Everyone else except me seems to know how they are inserted!!!!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Nick


Nick, the way i do it is when replying i don't use the post reply, I click on the Quote icon in the top right hand corner of the message you want to reply to, then delete the text that you don't want to quote, but I don't know how to do several in one message as some peeps do :? 

Go on quote me :lol: 

Martin


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Jacob, you ask for a free copy and offer an unbiased review. Wow. That seems almost too good to miss. But you know, this time I think I'll pass. The unbiased review I'm most interested in is whether or not you buy a second issue, or perhaps even take out a subscription. 

I had hoped the incentive was convenience, and knocked off 10p as a gesture. I think you might be surprised how much it costs to launch a magazine oneself, and every penny counts. I thought that people might buy it out of curiousity and with open minds. 

Fortunately it sounds as if that's Mike C's approach (and plenty of others), and I thank them for that, as you need every bit of support you can find in this industry. 

If, Jacob, you and most other woodworkers are entirely satisfied with the British woodworking magazines, then I'll shut up shop and do something less stressful. But it's my belief that things can be made better, and with sufficient passion and hard work it's worth doing; and surely it's worth giving people a chance to have a go without knocking them before they even start. 

I hope you buy a copy of British Woodworking, and enjoy it. You'll be paying a tiny amount more for it (plus petrol etc...) and I'll receive a small amount less, and the winners are the distributors and Smiths, and in a minute way you'll have less money to spend on wood and I'll have less money to spend on better content, which you might have perhaps enjoyed more! So your little jibe seems to be backfiring from where I'm sitting. 

Thanks.

Nick

PS Oh, and we mention gadgets on the cover, because for many people that's what rocks their boat.


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## Smudger (21 Jul 2007)

What would rock my boat is a 'basics' feature - a how-to-do for us complete newby klutzes. Not just the sharpening planes stuff, that is everywhere, but how to get work accurate, how to choose timber and so on.

I don't know if that would put off part of the potential readership, but it would certainly attract me.


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Nick Gibbs":i81zp11u said:


> Jacob, you ask for a free copy and offer an unbiased review. Wow. That seems almost too good to miss. But you know, this time I think I'll pass. The unbiased review I'm most interested in is whether or not you buy a second issue, or perhaps even take out a subscription.
> 
> I had hoped the incentive was convenience, and knocked off 10p as a gesture. I think you might be surprised how much it costs to launch a magazine oneself, and every penny counts. I thought that people might buy it out of curiousity and with open minds.
> 
> ...


Yebbut what's it for this magazine? What will it do which the others don't?
There is nothing much on the website, no list of contents, no indication of any policy or particular approach etc. etc.
Why are you launching another woodwork magazine?
Why should we buy it?
All seem perfectly reasonable questions to me.

cheers
Jacob


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## Slim (21 Jul 2007)

Jacob, if you don't want to buy it, then don't buy it. Give Nick a break. 

I have ordered a copy as I am intregued, and my subscription for GWW has recently expired. I do think that some magazines can be improved upon, and there is only one way to find out if British Woodworking is any better... try it.


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## motownmartin (21 Jul 2007)

Slimjim81":39vmnkgf said:


> Jacob, if you don't want to buy it, then don't buy it. Give Nick a break.
> 
> I have ordered a copy as I am intregued, and my subscription for GWW has recently expired. I do think that some magazines can be improved upon, and there is only one way to find out if British Woodworking is any better... try it.



Here, here.

My copy is ordered too.

Good luck Nick

Martin


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

Mike, no need to deconstruct my post, i'm simply asking the question what makes the magazine 'british' if the first thing mentioned on the website is gadgets from the US and Canada - why not gadgets from the UK? 

Also, I have to stick up for Mr G a bit here, there is currently quite a lot of woodworking magazines in the UK market, all he is asking, and me too in a fashion is; what will the magazine do better than the others? What makes it unique other than it's editor? Why should we buy it in preference to the other offerings?

If Nick wants to advertise and give us an incentive to buy his mag - and that i'm genuinly grateful for (as i'll be buying the first edition) then it's only right that we get to ask him questions about the magazine, it's direction, it's content etc.. as the website currently offers nothing in the way of content for us to find about the mag.

If others are quite happy to blindly buy anything anyone asks you to without finding out more about the product then thats your lookout, but don't take the thread down to a personal level yet again.

Let me re-iterate, I have nothing against Nick, and I wish him well with his magazine, and I hope it turns out well, because other than F&C IMO I think the others are a waste of time. I would just like more info about the mags direction and content.


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

ByronBlack":1fcisfqn said:


> snip
> If others are quite happy to blindly buy anything anyone asks you to without finding out more about the product
> snip


The "Big Issue" school of salesmanship :lol: 
Actually Smudger made an interesting suggestion:


> What would rock my boat is a 'basics' feature - a how-to-do for us complete newby klutzes. Not just the sharpening planes stuff, that is everywhere, but how to get work accurate, how to choose timber and so on.


and I suggested no more guff about gadgets and jigs.
What about a thread asking for more suggestions about desirable content. Postpone your launch Nick it's too soon - do a bit of serious market research first instead of assuming that you already know what rocks our boats!

cheers
Jacob
PS These are "comments" not "jibes"


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## Nick Gibbs (21 Jul 2007)

Ok, here's what's in the first issue, and a little bit of rationale. I'm not trying to justify British Woodworking, but to explain what we're trying to do. 

1. The magazine opens with a section of letters, tips and web recommendations, and newsy bits.
2. There's a section of tools on test. Many won't be for you. Some might be, but we hope the writing will provoke some thoughts. And what we test will evolve.
3. There's a blanket box project by a home woodworker, aimed to identify with the process of making something with limited time and resources. Plus there's a look at blanket boxes by professionals as inspiration. We want to promote the finest British craftsmanship (see the cover, which isn't the one of the website yet).
4. A feature about forums, looking at UKWorkshop, and discussing the good and bad points of a forum. We challenge various forums to answer a question we posed them, to see if there is consistency in the answer. We also asked professionals the same question to see how the answers matched. We are very keen to promote information on the internet (and information of any sort), but also to test its provision. 
5. Tobias Kaye talks about turning cedar of Lebanon with houndstooth figuring, as part of our commitment to native timber (part of the British theme to the mag). 
6. There's an article about making a ladderback chair, with comments from Mike Abbott, John Brown, Peter Hindle and others on the use of rounders. 
7. David Savage writes about the use of a small block plane (we are keen to promote the use of handtools) to finish the surface of an English oak table (British craftsmanship and native timber again).
8. Rob Leach, a young antique restorer, talks about the use of pumice powder for filling grain, instead of using a rubber and polish to build up the surface. This is a technique he was taught by someone who was trained in France. But we want to promote traditional techniques, especially if they have an interesting angle.
9. We ask whether Screwfix's test of screws in their latest catalogue (No.87) stands up to our own testing. We interview some of the people in the test, and conduct our own objective testing. This is further evidence of our desire to test information, as well as do objective testing of consumables.
10. We feature the world's largest bowl, and the process of making it. In Austria! There's our world view.
11. Bill Newton explains how to sharpen and reset planer knives. This is probably good for the beginner.
12. There's a piece about routing a solitaire board, using various jigs, and then a discussion about selling your work at a craft fair. We want to explore the motivation behind the making of pieces. 
13. And there's more, here and there. There are things missing that I will be making sure we get in in future issues. 

This isn't meant to be defensive, but when you read the label on a pre-cooked meal (about the same price) you do usually get to see the contents. 

Our key themes are: British craftsmanship; Innovation and resourcefulness in tools and making (British and otherwise); Classic & Contemporary Design; Traditional techniques; British timber (plus a few nice exotics!); Interesting woodworkers; Great workshops; Information provision/testing. 

I have a pretty clear idea of the type of woodworkers who will enjoy the magazine. If it's you, great. If it's not, no worries. Let's hope there are more of the former than the latter!!!!! And if you like what you find, and feel you understand the philosophy, then please offer to contribute. We need as many interesting approaches to woodwork as we can find. 

Have a good weekend.

Nick


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

Hi Nick,

I'm glad you havn't taken mine and Mr G's comments personal. From the content's list and the information you have provided, it sounds like a magazine that would interest me, mainly because of 'Traditional Techniques' and 'Hand Tools' - I think that is a good route to go down as most mags don't seem to cover that to well, instead focusing on what jig or powertool is the best option.

Also, articles on british timber, where to buy, what to use etc.. sounds good to me as that is the basic requirment we all have as woodworkers.. the material! It's surprising on how many mags bypass this altogether and fill their mags with spice racks and tablesaw jigs.


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## Paul Chapman (21 Jul 2007)

Good luck with the magazine, Nick :wink: I'll be interested in the article on pumice powder. I read an article about it in a magazine many years ago and was so impressed I bought a small jar of the stuff. Never got round to using it and I still have it on a shelf somewhere - maybe your article will inspire me to use it this time  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mike.C (21 Jul 2007)

> ByronBlack,
> 
> Mike, no need to deconstruct my post,



I am not deconstructing anyones post. I am doing what everyone else does and quoting you.



> ByronBlack,
> 
> If others are quite happy to blindly buy anything anyone asks you to without finding out more about the product then thats your lookout



Oh come on Byron, if you see a magazine that you fancy on a newsagents shelf I am sure you do not go home and phone the company before you buy it. We are talking about £3 for a magazine and not £300 for a tool.

You are entitled to say what you want, but before you set eyes on the very first issue, I think instead of criticism you should be supporting a fellow member in his new venture. After being the Editor of a number of magazines, Nick has taken the plunge and launched his own, so come on give lets him a break. I am sure if you were in the same boat you would want all the support you could get.
On the other hand when you have read the first issue I am sure that he will want to hear what you have to say whether it is good or bad.

Cheers

Mike


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

Mike - If I go into a shop, I look at the magazine, read whats in it, and have a look at the contents page, or even flick through if possible before buying it. I don't just go and buy a mag because someone has asked to - I need to know a little more about it first, which Nick was most kind in providing.

Also, there was no critisicm - I was asking questions, why is that such a bad thing? How can you learn about a product or the direction of a product if you don't ask questions?

I will most certainly give my views to Nick upon reading his mag in a fair and reasonable manner like I try to with anything I comment on.


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## Paul.J (21 Jul 2007)

Sounds good to me Nick.  
Looking forward to the first copy.
Paul.J.


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## Mike.C (21 Jul 2007)

> ByronBlack,
> I
> will most certainly give my views to Nick upon reading his mag in a fair and reasonable manner like I try to with anything I comment on.



Thats great.

Cheers

Mike


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

You know I once offered the use of my speed sander for a token price on this forum, the post was deleted because it was considered I was selling a service.
One rule for one,.. etc, or was it all down to the fact that I stuck up for my northern mate or had an avatar of a fat bloke, who knows (someone does)


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## ByronBlack (21 Jul 2007)

got to be the fat bloke avatar - nothing more offensive than a semi-naked fat man, I should know, I am one


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## Dave S (21 Jul 2007)

senior":y9bcmibu said:


> You know I once offered the use of my speed sander for a token price on this forum, the post was deleted because it was considered I was selling a service.
> One rule for one,.. etc, or was it all down to the fact that I stuck up for my northern mate or had an avatar of a fat bloke, who knows (someone does)


Hmmm - I was having similar thoughts :? 

Dave


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

yuk, do you mean your semi naked :shock:


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Escaping from the fat naked men for a minute to get back to the mag: 
OK sounds interesting. Not quite a USP in sight, a bit samo, but I promise to sneak a look when I see it on a shelf.
I don't buy many mags unless I happen to be hanging about near a newstand waiting for mrs G etc. I do buy books - much better value IMHO, you'd need many years of mag subs to cover, say, Joyce's contents, and they'd take up half your attic and be unreadable.

cheers
Jacob


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":nmpvj5vq said:


> OK sounds interesting. Not quite a USP in sight, a bit samo, but I promise to sneak a look when I see it on a shelf.
> 
> cheers
> Jacob



uh, whats that mean then, :?


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

senior":2der2wk3 said:


> Mr_Grimsdale":2der2wk3 said:
> 
> 
> > OK sounds interesting. Not quite a USP in sight, a bit samo, but I promise to sneak a look when I see it on a shelf.
> ...


USP = Unique Selling Point i.e. particular special quality which'd make us want to buy this mag rather than another. I picked it up from Mrs G who is into PR a bit. :roll:
samo = same old rubbish. My kids use it a lot, they're always moaning about something!

cheers
Jacob


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## spadge (21 Jul 2007)

Dave S":34kmdtwq said:


> senior":34kmdtwq said:
> 
> 
> > You know I once offered the use of my speed sander for a token price on this forum, the post was deleted because it was considered I was selling a service.
> ...



Me too, just read the rules for this forum which which state:-

5.) Advertising:- 
Advertising in threads is strictly prohibited. If you wish to advertise on UKW we offer banner space for companies to advertise their products and services. Please email charley ukworkshop.co.uk for more information. 

:? :? :?


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## MooreToolsPlease (21 Jul 2007)

I think you will find Nick said in an earlier post that he had asked Charleys permission before posting the message...
In my opinion a magazine is something that can benefit everyone on the forum, as I'm sure everyone here is looking to improve on their own knowledge of working with wood.
I am looking forward to recieving my copy


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

MooreToolsPlease":27v9pzwa said:


> I think you will find Nick said in an earlier post that he had asked Charleys permission before posting the message...
> In my opinion a magazine is something that can benefit everyone on the forum, as I'm sure everyone here is looking to improve on their own knowledge of working with wood.
> I am looking forward to recieving my copy



But surely then its a case of why have rules if they can be bent or broken, i'm sure theres a lot of people on the forum which would have liked the opportunity to use my speed sander (by the way, the offer is off the table now), I have lost count of the number of posts i have had removed because they were too funny, too witty, too mod unfriendly, too childish, too whatever but I suppose i'm not advertising the UK workshop forum in my magazine...


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## spadge (21 Jul 2007)

MooreToolsPlease":16zs1n3b said:


> I think you will find Nick said in an earlier post that he had asked Charleys permission before posting the message...
> In my opinion a magazine is something that can benefit everyone on the forum, as I'm sure everyone here is looking to improve on their own knowledge of working with wood.
> I am looking forward to recieving my copy



I did read that and I am not getting at Nick or Charley but I wondered why an exception had been made to the no advertising rule. 
I agree that a magazine can improve someones knowledge, but so can a book, an instruction video or a training course but you don't see those advertised, so I am still :? :? :?


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## Anonymous (21 Jul 2007)

Good luck with the launch Nick...

I'll take a look at it in WHSmiffs if they have it... as with all the mags these days, if it has something of interest, I'll buy it... if not, it stays on the shelf :wink:


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## Dave S (22 Jul 2007)

senior":1cbgtod7 said:


> I have lost count of the number of posts i have had removed because they were too funny, too witty, too mod unfriendly, too childish, too whatever but I suppose i'm not advertising the UK workshop forum in my magazine...


Or perhaps it's because _you_ are a regular contributor :?


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## DomValente (22 Jul 2007)

Good luck Nick.

Bet you didn't expect this kind of publicity  

Dom


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## johnjin (22 Jul 2007)

Good luck with the launch Nick
I will take you up on the offer

Best wishes

John


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## Nick Gibbs (22 Jul 2007)

Thanks, Dom. Sorry Charley if I've compromised you in any way, and thank you to everyone who has offered support. 

Nick


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## Anonymous (22 Jul 2007)

I think what was surprising about this thread is firstly; that (if you look at Nick's first post) he seems to assume that he needs only to tell us that he is doing a new magazine and where to send the money, and that we will all troop along and buy it, grateful for the magnificent 10p off. 
Secondly he seemed to be irritated that we presume to ask what this mag might contain! We had to drag it out of him!
The idea that an editor might ask us what we would like to see in a mag gets completely disregarded.
There are other contributors who also promote their services; David C and his courses, videos, books and LN tools being the most obvious, but at least he enters into the discussions.
Then there are many other professionals who chip in out of interest, with self promotion obviously not their first objective, even if they do benefit indirectly.
But then if there are enough people prepared to be a bit independantly minded and critical, perhaps it doesn't matter at all - as long as the mods allow it!

cheers
Jacob


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## tim (22 Jul 2007)

Nick

Good luck with the launch. I think F&C needs a challenger so hopefully you will be able to provide it.

Just out of curiosity, how does the 'The Uk's No.1 Woodworking Magazine' substantiate that claim?

Cheers

Tim


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## Smudger (22 Jul 2007)

Nick - I hope it goes well. Please don't forget us apprentices!


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## Anonymous (22 Jul 2007)

I think its only "apprentices" which buy these mags anyway, I haven't bought a wood mag for 15 + years. Not because I'm above them, but usually I am knowledgable on 95% of their content and therefore £3.30 seems expensive for maybe a tool reveiw.


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## Smudger (22 Jul 2007)

That's great for you (and I know you weren't one of the people rubbishing the whole idea so this isn't aimed at you), but some of us need to read and ask questions in order to make a little progress. 

There is a feeling going on here that if something (for example a magazine or book) doesn't appeal to an individual then it has to be described as a waste of time and space. In fact, there is room for all tastes without slagging off anyone who has differing ones, and a need for magazines that cover a range of topics. The market will, in both cases, be the final arbiter anyway.


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## Anonymous (22 Jul 2007)

Nick

The links on the right of the magazine webpage don't work


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## JFC (22 Jul 2007)

I'm not one for mags either , i prefer the dvd's :wink: BUT if Mr G had offered to review something for me i don't think i would have passed up the offer . There are so many questions on here about how do i make a window , how do i make a door etc wouldn't taking a bit of advice from someone that does it for a living be smart ? Or maybe you just want to sell mags and don't give two hoots what people want ?
In the good old days the mags told people how to make and repair things , does yours do that ? If not why not ? Do you really think people are not interested in how they can repair their own homes or make them better ?
Good luck with the mag , i for one wont be buying it as i think you are up your own bottom !


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## Scrit (22 Jul 2007)

Good luck with the magazine, Nick. I'd take no notice of the grumpy elements :wink: 

Scrit


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## Slim (22 Jul 2007)

Do you think Charley could set up a new rank for certain members. Like Alf has 'Hand Tool Goddess' they could have something like 'Grumpy Old Git' :roll:


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## Charley (22 Jul 2007)

I can see where you are coming from so will try and clear things up. Yes you are right, the rules should apply to everyone but occasionally in the past I have over-ruled some posts and allowed them to be posted.

In this instance Nick emailed me for permission. When a member emails me, there can be a bit of leeway to the rules (depending on the situation) if I feel it will benefit the members - but if you just post without permission the moderators have to react according to the rules.

UKW is to be mentioned in the first issue of Nick's magazine so I wanted to return the favour for something which will hopefully be good advertising for UKW and the forums and bring us new members. I think it's good when woodworking resources can work together and help each other out as it benefits us - the woodworkers.

I'm sorry if my decision to allow Nick's post has upset anyone. I certainly don't want people to think that it's one rule for them and another for someone else as this is something we work hard to try and avoid. 



senior":3dkcjg59 said:


> MooreToolsPlease":3dkcjg59 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you will find Nick said in an earlier post that he had asked Charleys permission before posting the message...
> ...


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## woodbloke (22 Jul 2007)

Senior wrote:


> but usually I am knowledgable on 95% of their content


Stuff by Robert Ingham as published in F&C might stretch you a bit  I've had to sit and read some of his stuff at least half a dozen times to work out what he's done  .....how he makes what he makes is beyond me. My old boss Dick Taylor was a student of RI and he was universally just called 'God', with no disrespect intended. Although as you say, you _may think_ you know 95% of the content, it's that last 5% that's going to give you a bite in the rear end. Having collected all copies over the last 10 years or so, they now form a very useful technical library that I can dip into, trouble is I have to try and remember where stuff is in them  - Rob


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## Anonymous (22 Jul 2007)

Hey Nick,

Good luck with the new mag. If you put as much effort in as you did when I worked with you at Good Woodworking, it'll be worth every penny!

All the best mate,
Andy


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## Anonymous (22 Jul 2007)

JFC":15ab6wye said:


> I'm not one for mags either , i prefer the dvd's :wink: BUT if Mr G had offered to review something for me i don't think i would have passed up the offer . There are so many questions on here about how do i make a window , how do i make a door etc wouldn't taking a bit of advice from someone that does it for a living be smart ? Or maybe you just want to sell mags and don't give two hoots what people want ?
> In the good old days the mags told people how to make and repair things , does yours do that ? If not why not ? Do you really think people are not interested in how they can repair their own homes or make them better ?
> Good luck with the mag , i for one wont be buying it as i think you are up your own bottom !



Steady on JFC, you'll be getting pm's soon telling you to stop it....... 5,4,3,2,1, phoooooof as if by magic.


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## Inspector (22 Jul 2007)

Nick

I've looked at all the posts and at your website and with the exception of your introductory price don't see anything on subscription prices, domestic and foreign. Would you tell me/us what those rates will be and how often it will be published (monthly, bimonthly, or quarterly)? The introductory offer is out for me as I don't have PayPal and would have to wait for at least 2 or 3 months before it will show up on a magazine rack here, assuming your going to offer it outside Brittan.

Best of luck with your venture.


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## Steve Maskery (22 Jul 2007)

Well I'm very glad Nick has some support here. Nick is passionate about WW mags and I know that quality is his topmost priority. He's done more for ww journalism i the UK than anyone else on this forum and arguably in the country, certainly in modern times. He's not in it just to make a quick quid (there are much, much easier ways of doing that). At least if you can't support him, there is no need to knock what he's doing even before it has appeared!

Very best of luck, Nick, with your new venture, I hope it succeeds. If anyone can do it, you can. More power to your elbow.

Cheers
Steve


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## Benchwayze (22 Jul 2007)

motownmartin":2uar710i said:


> It's all tongue in cheek Nick, well, most of it :roll:
> 
> Martin



I never quite understood this saying.
After all with tongue in cheek the best most of us can manage is a mumble! 

So now I'll keep my tongue behind my cleched teeth and say 'Gottle of Geer.' 8) ccasion5: 
John


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## Benchwayze (22 Jul 2007)

senior":2p0ht6zv said:


> JFC":2p0ht6zv said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not one for mags either , i prefer the dvd's :wink: BUT if Mr G had offered to review something for me i don't think i would have passed up the offer . There are so many questions on here about how do i make a window , how do i make a door etc wouldn't taking a bit of advice from someone that does it for a living be smart ? Or maybe you just want to sell mags and don't give two hoots what people want ?
> ...



I agree. Steady on.
Leave the criticism until you know whether or not the problems you appear to have are addressed in the magazine. As for DVD's and videos, I've seen some of those that make me shudder at the incompetence of the people who are supposed to be experts! And you have no chance to criticise, because there's no one to write to, and the people who sold you the thing might or might not give you your money back, depending on their view of 'fitness for purpose.' ... Then where are you? Hopefully still counting to ten on all your digits!


So leave the criticism until you have at least seen a copy, eh?

John


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## motownmartin (22 Jul 2007)

Benchwayze":27g6nf7s said:


> motownmartin":27g6nf7s said:
> 
> 
> > It's all tongue in cheek Nick, well, most of it :roll:
> ...


I'm not surprised if you're from the west midlands, skip :lol: 

Martin


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## Nick Gibbs (22 Jul 2007)

Inspector":w4u3589y said:


> Would you tell me/us what those rates will be and how often it will be published (monthly, bimonthly, or quarterly)? The introductory offer is out for me as I don't have PayPal and would have to wait for at least 2 or 3 months before it will show up on a magazine rack here, assuming your going to offer it outside Brittan.



Really sorry about this, Inspector. The magazine is bi-monthly. If I can cover my costs and if advertisers receive enough response from woodworkers (please respond to adverts!), there is a chance of survival and of going monthly at some stage. 

I am launching this magazine from my own savings, so there's little time/resources to organise some things, and overseas subscriptions is one of those bits that has been overlooked. I will try to sort this as soon as possible. It has not happened through lack of interest in woodworkers elsewhere. I hope British Woodworking will want to communicate with woodworkers worldwide (but then I might be up my own bottom if JFC is right!!!).

On a separate point, anyone who thinks I don't listen to what woodworkers want must be barking. The only problem is that everyone wants something slightly different!!!

Nick


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## Benchwayze (22 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":p20fjouy said:


> Seriously though - if someone produced a magazine which entirely avoided gadgets, jigs and few other things I could suggest, they might be on to something interesting.
> 
> cheers
> Jacob



Someone did, a few years ago now. It was aimed primarily at experienced workers who wanted to get together, share projects and design. I think it was called simply 'Furnituremaking'. 

The projects were mostly advanced, and it was a damn good read. Sadly it folded after about five issues. Presumably there were not enough woodworkers in the UK who wanted to read about their hobby, or their daily work, in such depth. I am sure some of them used gadgets and jigs though. I believe David Charlesworth uses honing guides. Good enough for him, good enough for me. Also, I imagine a luthier would use templates on a regular basis, as well as various pre-marked scales for locating fret positions. Probably also a bendy, metal clamp for laminating guitar bouts? 

I've been working with wood since I was eleven years old and I still learn things from magazines. (and forums) So without folk like Nick Gibbs I would be stuck with yellowing copies of magazines I have kept over the years. I for one will give his new magazine a try. 

John


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## Benchwayze (22 Jul 2007)

woodbloke":2chdfcqm said:


> Senior wrote:
> 
> 
> > but usually I am knowledgable on 95% of their content
> ...



ROTFLMBO! :lol: 

Regarding the 5%.... Well said Rob..... As for finding what you want in old mags, there is a PC program available, to help you index such collections... Any help? 
John 

(Ingham is good, but more practical for me was dear old Jim Kingshott. )

John


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## Benchwayze (22 Jul 2007)

motownmartin":2pera4l6 said:


> Benchwayze":2pera4l6 said:
> 
> 
> > motownmartin":2pera4l6 said:
> ...



 Oh Martin that was norty... and coming from someone who would likely pronounce Hinkley, as 'Enkleh!!! I had some Leicester lads in one of my classes... Oh boy! Lol! :lol: 

Not all West Midlanders talk like Jasper Carrot. (Or like he used to before he lived in Solihull. Then again not all of us are half as witty.)

And how did you know I used to be a Skipper? 

Cheers... All in fun

John


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

Personally I think knowledge is negligable anyway, I think it all comes down to natural abilities. You've either got it or you haven't. Theres plenty of people who are knowledgable and can talk about it, but not many who can really do it. Most pieces of hand made furniture I see close up are amateurish with poor craftsmanship and lack design insight.
I'll live with my missing 5%, and sleep like a baby knowing I have a successful cabinet making business working for top clients and a full order book.


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## Philly (23 Jul 2007)

senior":3qwar9um said:


> I'll live with my missing 5%, and sleep like a baby knowing I have a successful cabinet making business working for top clients and a full order book.


So come on then. Why are you so grumpy?? :lol: 
Philly


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

See my post on builders.


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## lurker (23 Jul 2007)

Nick,

Hope this is constructive:

Post on your website the "why you are gonna be different" explanation you finally put on this thread. If you are as good as your word, you could be onto a winner here.

Like many others, I have no Paypay & can't be bothered with hassle, I'll buy the first issue of the mag if I happen to see it in the newsagents.

Your website has too many none running elements (as pointed out by Tony) at least place a "sorry under development" note on them.

If I subscribe I will want to do it on line using my credit card, if this feature doesn't exist you might loose me as a potential customer. Be aware of USA competition, with Dollar rate their subs are very good value and Mags are better than UK ones 

Good luck with the mag, we need something better than the current UK ones.


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## Chris Knight (23 Jul 2007)

Philly":3skoajxu said:


> So come on then. Why are you so grumpy?? :lol:
> Philly



It's just his natural ability..


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## RustHunter (23 Jul 2007)

senior":37exkb89 said:


> Personally I think knowledge is negligable anyway, I think it all comes down to natural abilities. You've either got it or you haven't.


Codswallop! Your natural ability is probably there because you went to college and were taught the basics, the theory of doing your job, just like the rest of us. Since starting work you have likely been the recipient of much acquired knowledge from more experienced people as well as learning from your mistakes. So your ability is built on the knowledge of others. Your talent is all your own, but no doubt even that was nurtured by others. And being talented is still no excuse for arrogance or rudeness

Ted


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

MOD NOTE

OK, stop the insults, name calling and bickering. 

If this thread returns on topic with constructive discussion of the new magazine, it won't be locked.


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## mr (23 Jul 2007)

Good Luck with the new venture Nick. 

Cheers Mike


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## woodbloke (23 Jul 2007)

Benchwayze wrote:


> Ingham is good, but more practical for me was dear old Jim Kingshott


RI's work in my view is staggeringly technical and _very_ highly engineered (at the opposite end of the spectrum to Krenov). I have a deep regard for the other JK (used to live in the same village as him when he was alive) but I feel of a different standard to RI. That said, I have a deep regard for Kingshott (I've got most of his books) and think he was an excellent craftsman of the 'old school' - Rob


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## Alf (23 Jul 2007)

Tony":2meyb97l said:


> If this thread returns on topic with constructive discussion of the new magazine, it won't be locked.


That wasn't my understanding of the topic at all. :-k But to be on topic (as I see it), can I ask why long-time contributor Steve Maskery has apparently spent _his_ savings on a banner ad for his DVD (good luck, Steve) and yet Nick Gibbs, who in a previous editorial incarnation has as good as threatened this forum that unless we say positive things about his magazine this forum wouldn't get a mention in said magazine, gets advertising for free?

Cheers, Alf


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## Nick Gibbs (23 Jul 2007)

Fair point, Alf. How much does a banner ad cost?


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## inventor (23 Jul 2007)

OK, so here's an opinion in another direction: print magazines are dead. Yes, there's a market for beautiful, expensively produced and edited work, but not using dead trees. Instead, charge for online content. Fine Woodworking does a perfect job, IMO, but is too American. Do the same for Europe and you'll have a winner. Personally, I don't visit a newsagents for months at a time, so I'm not going to pick up a copy on a whim, and I stopped subscribing to any delivered magazines years ago.


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## Steve Maskery (23 Jul 2007)

NO!

Please let's not go down this route, there has been quite enough fire in posts in this topic and others this last few days, without it turning into an argument about the relative merits of the business models of people who are just trying to survive by their modest skills in this god-forsaken world.

How about we all just wish Nick and me the best of luck, as we surely both need it, in our respective ventures to share our knowledge with the rest of the woodworking community whilst being able to buy our own food at the same time instead of having to rely on someone else's economic worth to do it for us, eh?

Thanks very much, Alf, for the good wishes, very much appreciated, but please let's not descend into a debate about Nick's post and my banner. Absolutely no good can come out of it.

Steve


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## Benchwayze (23 Jul 2007)

IN REPLY TO WOODBLOKE (Rob)

Maybe this requires a thread of its own Rob.

I also have high regard for Krenov. (I was lucky enough to be able to buy his books when they first appeared over here.) Like you and me, he rarely uses sandpaper on his pieces. 

Robert Ingham's designs are staggering, but there are times when I question the functionality of his work (Not often) . 

I could question the functionality of Krenov's work too I suppose, because some of his pieces were much smaller in the 'flesh' than the photographs in his books suggest. Certainly at times, smaller than they should be to fulfil their role. (That's my opinion you understand.) 

In the end, I like the relaxed, reflective approach of Krenov and the downright, honest to goodness everyday craftsmanship of Jim Kingshott. Not only a fine cabinet maker, who helped make Mosquito aircraft during the war, but a precise metalworker too, who made some fine bench-planes for himself.

In short Rob, I miss being able to pick up the phone to call him whenever things weren't going too well in the shop. He always had time for me, and I am sure for anyone else with a problem. I suppose I just miss the man and I doubt I am alone in that. 

To return to the new magazine, knowing Nick Gibbs's journalistic talents, I am sure his magazine will be the best he can make it. So I am going to read it. 

Someone said that American magazines are better than ours. There is certainly some fine photography, and the paper they use, generally is the best. They also have some talented artists who can convey a sense of atmosphere with their 'rough and ready' sketches, that really aren't rough and ready at all. But they do have more advertisements than our magazines. Also, they are not quite so receptive to 'unknown' woodworkers who submit projects to them, with a view to publication. I know that from experience. 

So after this lengthy post, I am going back to my workshop, because I forgot to turn off the light in there!


Take care Rob
John


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## JFC (23 Jul 2007)

How can you charge for online content when you can come to this site and get all the answers you need ?
P.S Nick , i'm sorry if you where offended by my backside comment , it was an off the cuff remark from a hairy bummed chippy


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## Benchwayze (23 Jul 2007)

Hmmmm! I agree Steve.

So I don't think I will write that book about the Leigh jig after all! I've seen less flak in a four-inch gun turret!

John 

:lol:


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## Modernist (23 Jul 2007)

Firstly I hope Woodbloke does not mean that James Krenov has died - although I gather from his website he has stopped making cabinets.

Re the mag I doubt if there is a space for another publication as 

a> I see no "USB" as previously noted
b> It is difficult to avoid descending into endless gear tests (even F&C is guilty of this although this is balanced by the overall content remaining good)
c>the number of potential purchasers seriously interested in fine woodwork is limited and they are already quite well catered for.
d>I don't need to know how to make a cart out of matchsticks as I once saw in the Woodworker
e>What's the point of the British bit? Much of the interesting work is inevitably from elsewhere. Tools also viz LN and LV


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## promhandicam (23 Jul 2007)

All the best with the magazine. Perhaps you could post a message at some point in the future when overseas rates are determined. 

Steve


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

RustHunter":1xu87eb4 said:


> senior":1xu87eb4 said:
> 
> 
> > Personally I think knowledge is negligable anyway, I think it all comes down to natural abilities. You've either got it or you haven't.
> ...


Thats uncanny, 4 posts and you have my character spot on. Yes I did go to college, for an HND in agriculture  after 4 years I ended up with a distinction in alcohol consumption, and could tell the difference between a potato and a carrot.


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## Benchwayze (23 Jul 2007)

Modernist":2wjob9p7 said:


> Firstly I hope Woodbloke does not mean that James Krenov has died - although I gather from his website he has stopped making cabinets.


No it's okay Mod. Krenov was still with us yesterday, or so I read on his site. Also still making cabinets, but that could be wrong of course.

John


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## Alf (23 Jul 2007)

Steve, it's not about business models, it's about unprincipled use and abuse of this forum and its membership. It's about threatening us one moment and then taking advantage of our hospitality the next. It sticks in my throat when someone does it for their own twisted amusement, but for financial gain...? But as I seem to be the only one who actually gives a damn I s'pose I'll just have to go and find some wilderness to be a lone voice in.

Cheers, Alf


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

senior":18zrw6jv said:


> snip
> Thats uncanny, 4 posts and you have my character spot on. Yes I did go to college, for an HND in agriculture  after 4 years I ended up with a distinction in alcohol consumption, and could tell the difference between a potato and a carrot.


Garn then wossa difrunce :lol: 
Take no notice of them senior we're on your side - and don't storm off again in a huff we need you here.

cheers
Jacob


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## motownmartin (23 Jul 2007)

ALF , where's the flag


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## Anonymous (23 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":1vhhw76r said:


> senior":1vhhw76r said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...



Thanks Grim, a potato is brown a carrot isn't. :lol: Toys bolted down in my pram


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## Dave S (23 Jul 2007)

Alf":36ga04qf said:


> Steve, it's not about business models, it's about unprincipled use and abuse of this forum and its membership. It's about threatening us one moment and then taking advantage of our hospitality the next. It sticks in my throat when someone does it for their own twisted amusement, but for financial gain...? But as I seem to be the only one who actually gives a damn I s'pose I'll just have to go and find some wilderness to be a lone voice in.
> 
> Cheers, Alf



FWIW, I agree entirely.

Dave


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## JFC (23 Jul 2007)

I also agree Alf but it seems my bottom comment caused some upset and that was never my intention .


----------



## Losos (23 Jul 2007)

Nick Gibbs":2f8psnj5 said:


> Jacob, you ask for a free copy and offer an unbiased review. Wow. That seems almost too good to miss. But you know, this time I think I'll pass. The unbiased review I'm most interested in is whether or not you buy a second issue, or perhaps even take out a subscription.
> 
> I had hoped the incentive was convenience, and knocked off 10p as a gesture. I think you might be surprised how much it costs to launch a magazine oneself, and every penny counts. I thought that people might buy it out of curiousity and with open minds.
> 
> ...



Nick - First a million thanks for trying, *I wish you every success*. Just as a matter of interest, when I'm in Uk I usually fork out for a few woody mags at the WH Smith type shops. I just did so on Friday and I have to say I was not really satisfied. I have found myself having to edit the photo captions, correct the grammer, and spend more time than I want re-reading things which were not written clearly and concisdely. I was sorry to see you leave your post at GWW and I do hope you can get this new publication off the ground. 

I've highlighted the part of your post that's important but decided to leave the other parts as well 'cos I can't see how anyone can argue with what you say.


----------



## Charley (23 Jul 2007)

Again - Please keep on-topic. I've already posted why I allowed Nick' post and Tony's request has been ignored...


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## Johnboy (24 Jul 2007)

my 2p worth.

1. Good luck to Nick with the magazine, I have ordered a copy to give it a try.

2. I agree with Alf comments.

John


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## Anonymous (24 Jul 2007)

OK on topic.
Part of the reason (in addition to Alf's comments) about the slightly peevish reaction to Nick's post is the presumption in the title: _British_ woodworking. 
Will it really cover the British woodworking scene in any comprehensive way? 
A more truthful title might be "N Gibbs and his Advertising Associates Woodworking". 
Not entirely facetious, it's important. 
For instance I bought a copy of "Traditional Woodworking" a long time ago, trad woodworking being my thing. It had an article about biscuit jointing (or something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, and I haven't bought one since. I don't know if it lived up to it's title in other issues but I guess not.
Had it been called "Shedman" or "Gibberings from the Shed" I would have expected less but perhaps have bought it a 2nd time.

cheers
Jacob


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## Anonymous (24 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":29gv48mh said:


> something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, Jacob



Yes, that's right jacob, it must be at least 6 months(or is it longer) now since you stopped using those 'naff' Stanley and Eclipse honing guides.

Monday 6th november 2006 you posted that you'd just stopped using them


> I think I've found out how to sharpen chisels at last! It's taken 40 years.




A more open mind might reveal that some magazines contain useful information for eveybody in at least one of their articles. Of course, not everyone enjoys every article, but then we are not all the same.

Who knows? maybe the next edition of trad Woodworker had an article on sharpening without a honing guide. (no idea as I have never bought it)

Why don't you write an article for trad woodworking that is more in line with your own interests?


----------



## ByronBlack (24 Jul 2007)

Thats a good suggestion Tony, I'm sure Jacob - you could knock up an interesting article, your information on rods was gratefully received, and this is something that I don't think i've ever seen in a magazine! Get submitting! The money you earn you could put towards a nice set of Lie Nielsen Dovetail Chisels  (just joking)


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## Nick Gibbs (24 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":377f5d9g said:


> OK on topic.
> Part of the reason (in addition to Alf's comments) about the slightly peevish reaction to Nick's post is the presumption in the title: _British_ woodworking. Will it really cover the British woodworking scene in any comprehensive way? A more truthful title might be "N Gibbs and his Advertising Associates Woodworking".



I thought I'd answered this already. We hope to focus on:
1. British craftsmanship/design
2. British innovation and resourcefulness in tools and making
3. British native timber
4. British woodworkers
5. British information (forums, books, websites, catalogues etc...)

But not at the exclusion of what's going on around the world and equipment that comes in from other countries because we have to reflect the experience of woodworkers. How the balance is struck will depend on how the magazine shapes up over the first year or so. 

I could produce a fascinating magazine full of articles about what's going on in Britain's woodworking scene. I have some great stories I want to run. But if I do that I'll only get comments that there aren't enough projects or tips or tests or techniques. 

I am not in the advertisers' pockets, and never have been. Remember, I was the first person to introduce comparative testing to British woodworking magazines. There is a lot of advertising in the first issue, mainly because I gave much of it away free as a gesture of goodwill to the industry and to kickstart the magazine and to make an impression and to show my commitment. Who knows if that was a mistake or not. 

Them's the risks you take, and I only hope people will view this attempt to provide something new for woodworkers with an open mind.


----------



## ByronBlack (24 Jul 2007)

Nick, I appreciate your willinges to respond in this thread, and I think overtime that is the best way to develop a relationship with this forum and a chunk of your readership.

I personally stopped buying magazines a while ago in favour of the amazing amount of information that exists in the brains of these forum members, and other online resources. For a beginner, most magazines are rather boring, with an over emphasis on tool reviews (almost always cheap power tools) and not enough on terminology, technique and approach. (IMO)

Despite the number of mags available, I don't think most are up to scratch and unfortunatly I have to put GWW in that bracket even though it regularly features members of this forum; who ulimately provide IMO the most interesting articles amongst a lot of 'filler' - again thats just my humble opinion.

At the end of the day despite your approach and the hoo-harr that this thread has caused, i'm sure most of us will give your first issue a fair read. And decide from there on, good luck F&C needs a competitor at the top.


----------



## A_n_g_e_l_a (24 Jul 2007)

Charley":3fwa8zhd said:


> Again - Please keep on-topic. ... and Tony's request has been ignored...





Tony":3fwa8zhd said:


> Mr_Grimsdale":3fwa8zhd said:
> 
> 
> > something similarly naff I can't remember, might have been honing jigs) which put me right off immediately as it was not what was indicated by the cover, Jacob
> ...



Tony's request ignored? I can't begin to guess why. :roll:


----------



## Scrit (24 Jul 2007)

ByronBlack":2oauv8dc said:


> ......information on rods...... ...... is something that I don't think I've ever seen in a magazine!


Maybe you should read some books, then? :lol: 

The information _is_ widely available and is covered in any half-decent (i.e. not American, filled with glossy photographs, etc) text book on joinery/carpentry. I'd ask the question whether or not such things should appear in magazines as they are, after all, fundamentals. BTW on another forum I belong to we have actually put up a reading list (mainly from the trades people) covering just this topic. 



ByronBlack":2oauv8dc said:


> For a beginner, most magazines are rather boring, with an over emphasis on tool reviews.... ....and not enough on terminology, technique and approach.


So what would you want to see? I have been lambasted in the past for sticking rigidly to the traditional terms "housing" and "rebate" instead of the Americanised (and incorrect IMO) "dado". Yet understanding the correct terminology is critical to being able to communicate sensibly with other woodworkers, isn't it? Do you want to see a return to woodworking as it was promoted by magazines such as "The Woodworker" in the 1930s, for example, when photographs were rare and projects were often based around making something practical?

Scrit


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## Sgian Dubh (24 Jul 2007)

ByronBlack":2717bdwg said:


> ...your information on rods was gratefully received, and this is something that I don't think i've ever seen in a magazine!



My Every Rod Tells a Story parts 1 and 2 appeared in Furniture & Cabinetmaking in issues 85 and 86, February and March, 2004. That should be a start for you. Slainte.


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## Sgian Dubh (24 Jul 2007)

senior":6qee1bm6 said:


> Personally I think knowledge is negligable anyway, I think it all comes down to natural abilities. You've either got it or you haven't.



Very likely to be untrue senior. Skill, and knowledge for that matter are, in my opinion, unlikely all due to natural ability.

Both come from perhaps a little native talent, perhaps 5%, and the rest comes from practice and study, reaching a plateau, then further practice and study until that next plateau is reached. Then you do it all again up the next hill. 

The people with the most apparent 'natural' talent are always pushing themselves further, trying new things and are never in their 'comfort zone' of ability and familiarity. There's another higher plane to reach for for those with that supposed talent. 

The ultimate expression of your ability is never reached-- your whole life is devoted to going that extra mile. The average or mediocre find a level of knowledge, skill and ability and that's as far as they reach. They're in their comfort zone and they're staying there. For them, good enough is near enough.

Sorry about this not being directly related to the magazine subject, but I thought your comment deserved a contradictory response. Slainte.


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## lurker (24 Jul 2007)

There's a article in the making Nick!

Out with Americanisations and in with British (cue: Dam busters theme tune) terminology. I'd even be interested in their (rustle of dictionary) etymology.

Dado confused the hell out of me as I thought it was that bit of wood around Victorian room to stop the chair backs mucking up the walls.

Also sign Scrit up for a regular workshop machinery safety slot based on his ramblings here on the forum. The stuff mags usually pass off as safety information is so basic and bland and obvious it makes me weep.


----------



## ByronBlack (24 Jul 2007)

Scrit, your spot on about books, and the ones you and Jacob and others that have recommended are on order as we speak so I appreciate that. BUT for people who havn't come from a tutored backgroud we don't know that these books exist or the quality of their information, that is where for a hobbyist a magazine could and should cover some fundamentals and/or provide a further reading list.

And I would like to see a return to traditional terminology/techniques. Photo's are great if they illustrate what's going on. I think some of the american ones are actually pretty good (despite their difference of language) - but then i'm probably talking more about the online publications, for example: Fine Woodworking.com and Chris Schwarz stuff. As an example, I just went over to FWW and they have a video on M&T using Powertools and handtools along with printed media.

At the end of the day, for anyone interested in a hobby, content is more important than photo's and illustrations, but if done properly they can help hammer home a technique that might be difficult to explain in words to a layman.

Slainte - cheers for the information, i'll keep an eye out for back issues.


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## Mike.C (24 Jul 2007)

> Mr Grimsdale,
> 
> I don't buy many mags





> senior,
> 
> I haven't bought a wood mag for 15 + years





> ByronBlack,
> 
> I personally stopped buying magazines a while ago



If as you say you do not buy mags, then why the hell don't you give the guy a break. You have done nothing for the last few days but try and wind Nick up. IMHO you do not care if the magazine is printed or not, you are just out to cause trouble, again. And do not give us that rubbish about you are going to buy a copy and give us your thoughts, because no matter what Nick puts in it, you will find something wrong.

Mods, If you see this is as off topic then I am sorry, but there is nothing constructive about the way they wind members up when they feel like it, and they do not seem to care what anyone thinks, least of all the moderators, just look at the way they ignored Tony.

Cheers

Mike


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## Good Surname or what ? (24 Jul 2007)

Nick,

Can I begin by stating I've got no axe to grind and have ordered a copy to see what you are up to. It's only £3 afterall and I think it's good to support startups - I've also bought Steve Maskery's DVDs on the same principle - though it's a bit more than £3.

However, I'm not a great one for buying magazines. I pop-in to W H Smith every month and pick-up a copy of F&C (it's aspirational) - for the last year or so I've also bought GWW (usually there is little that interests me other than James Mursell's stuff and the odd project from this forum's contributors). I had a subscription to FWW but have since changed to an on-line subscription because I have unlimited access to the archives and can print PDF's if I need a paper copy. A loooong time ago I bought a mag called Woodworking International - I still have all the copies - I thought it was exceptionally good. Hmmm - perhaps I am a great one for buying mags afterall :shock: 

Anyway.... to the point of my post.

I imagine it's a pretty big undertaking to start a magazine from scratch, and a significant risk to take with one's own money. So, I'd be interested to understand a few thing....



Can you say something about the demographic analysis that goes into designing content. Perhaps we, the forum members, are atypical of the magazine buying public. Maybe this is why you have got a lot of flak in the past over the content/format issue.

I know nothing about publishing so I'd be interested to understand the economics of content/advertising/production/distribution/street price/profit.

Anyway good luck. I see 3 potential outcomes for you in decreasing order of goodness, for all concerned...


The mag offers content of interest to this forum and the wider community. You're a raging success.

The general public likes it - but most forum members don't. Well, you'll still be quite successful.

You crash and burn. Sad for us all - but particularly you.

I look forward to seeing the product.
Phil


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## Nick Gibbs (24 Jul 2007)

Thanks, Phil. Here's my thinking.

The broadcast of information in all media has changed dramatically in the last few years. Increasingly it is a case of information on demand, hence FWW's online subscription service. As you'll discover in the first issue of British Woodworking we are starting a Project Finder service, whereby readers can ask us to find projects they need through the magazine. I don't want, necessarily, to be the provider of those projects, but aim to direct readers towards other providers, including rivals. 

Part of the role of British Woodworking is to be a hub of information, because I think there is a need amongst many readers to find out about other sources of information. It is the future. If I was just a woodworker that's what I'd want, and I'm hoping there other woodworkers (of varying abilities) are of the same thinking (that's my demographic analysis).

I also hope to provide good journalism; ideally the best in the woodworking marketplace; a magazine people will want to read because the writing is thought-provoking, informative and entertaining. And of course I hope it spurs people into doing something they might otherwise not have tried. As a result they enjoy their woodworking all the more, and that makes me feel good. 

The print v pixel argument is relevant if spurious. Print may no longer be the efficient way to get to people (and I should know from my print bills), but as I'm sure Charley recognises, it's still very difficult to make money from the electronic provision of information unless you have a very strong existing brand (and then it's probably a lost leader) or are in either porn or finance. That will change, but it's happening slower than the owners of electronic brands would like. 

I've edited magazines in many markets (sailing, cross stitch, computing, caravaning, mountain biking etc...) and in most cases the content is driven by gut instinct, listening to lots of people, and a passion to produce something better, plus a hope that there is a market in the gap you are aiming for. Only time will tell will tell if that's the case with British Woodworking, but it will be a huge challenge finding out.


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## A_n_g_e_l_a (24 Jul 2007)

We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that magazines make most of their money from advertisers. Editors with an eye to their bottom line will tend to choose articles which can be used as a prompt to advertisers to take a bigger spread to match a 'special feature' article. 

In my own case, many years ago, I wrote a a piece for Practical Woodworking that featured the use of a compressor. I'd even had free loan of several compressors while preparing the article from manufacturers keen to get their wares in the spotlight. 

Given this subtle vectored push towards magazines featuring the manufactured and advertisable, it is not too surprising that there is sometimes a paucity of articles concentrating on simple hand tool techniques.

If it is technique and how-to you are after, buying magazines is not the answer. The long-term cost is excessive compared to buying a series of good books. 

The only advantage a magazine has is speed to market. With developing technologies - such as Information Technology - magazines have a part to play spreading rapidly evolving knowledge - but in a subject that is as well defined and rehearsed as woodworking, there ain't much new is there? Certainly nothing is moving very fast. And once you realise that all woodwork devolves down to the 'accurate removal of waste' what else can one say?


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## A_n_g_e_l_a (24 Jul 2007)

And to contribute to the knowledge versus natural abilities debate, let me tell this tale that has remained with me many years ... 

I watched, dumbfounded, with fellow students, as a lecturer passed a knitting needle through an inflated balloon. He pushed it gently from one side clear through to the other. The balloon remained intact. Asked how he did that - he explained it was his inherent skill or manual dexterity that allowed him to judge exactly the angle and force at which to push the needle. 

After a while of trying to defend an untenable position from the barracking of a disbelieving audience, he finally moved to make his point. It was not skill or manual dexterity or natural ability, he admitted, it was technique. It was know how. 

He knew that placing a couple of pieces of sellotape on the balloon, where the needle would enter and leave, would be enough to prevent the balloon from bursting. He went on to expand his theme that good woodwork was mainly about knowing and using the correct technique for the task in hand.

So guys, there you have it - it is not skill but it is knowing how to do something - and I would agree with the 95% - 5% split mentioned by others.


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## ByronBlack (24 Jul 2007)

Mike.C

Quote:
"If as you say you do not buy mags, then why the hell don't you give the guy a break. You have done nothing for the last few days but try and wind Nick up. IMHO you do not care if the magazine is printed or not, you are just out to cause trouble, again. And do not give us that rubbish about you are going to buy a copy and give us your thoughts, because no matter what Nick puts in it, you will find something wrong. "

I'm very offended by that!

I'm out to cause trouble again? really? if you look at my posts througout the thread i've defended nick somewhat and have offered my best wishes and support, what blinkered glasses are you looking through? And what if there was something wrong about the magazine, would we not be allowed to voice our opinion because you almightily decree that only your opinion be deemed worthy?

Just because i've not bought a mag for a while now means that i'm not entitled to an opinion?, or to question Nicks new venture to find out more about it, and exactly where have I made an attempt to wind him up? 

If you have a personal grievence, why not PM me instead of spouting unsubstantiated pea's in a public thread!

Oh - and don't lump me in with your other accusations, where have I ignored Tony and the other mods? Your post is out of order, not mine prior to this, although now i'm as bad as you are and have come down to your level.


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## Dave S (24 Jul 2007)

I think it's about time it was openly recognised that this whole thread was a mistake and it was locked. 

I find it quite insulting to have warnings issued to abide by the rules when a rule was waived to allow the original post to be made in the first place.

It would, IMO, have been far better to have offered publicity via an advert. Whether or not it was charged for would be unknown to forum members and none of our business.

Dave


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## Anonymous (24 Jul 2007)

A_n_g_e_l_a":rd6tpmo0 said:


> snip
> And once you realise that all woodwork devolves down to the 'accurate removal of waist' what else can one say?


That's "precision slimming" isn't it? :lol: 

cheers
Jacob


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## JFC (24 Jul 2007)

Dont lock it yet , this is the funniest lunch break i've had for ages :lol:


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## Slim (24 Jul 2007)

Dave S":1478j3rc said:


> I find it quite insulting to have warnings issued to abide by the rules when a rule was waived to allow the original post to be made in the first place.



Awww... Diddums

It's Charley's website, Charley's rules, Charleys decision. Why should anybody be offended that he decided to let Nick post?


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## A_n_g_e_l_a (24 Jul 2007)

Mr_Grimsdale":2uuoycf6 said:


> A_n_g_e_l_a":2uuoycf6 said:
> 
> 
> > snip
> ...



Oooh! I'm wasted!


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## Vormulac (24 Jul 2007)

Good luck with the magazine, Nick. I'll certainly take a look at a copy first chance I get.

V.


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## Benchwayze (24 Jul 2007)

A_n_g_e_l_a":34tuzjd3 said:


> He knew that placing a couple of pieces of sellotape on the balloon, where the needle would enter and leave, would be enough to prevent the balloon from bursting. He went on to expand his theme that good woodwork was mainly about knowing and using the correct technique for the task in hand.



Repairing a puncture before it was punctured. I guess that put the con in conjurer.

I once saw it done with a lead balloon.  

Stay Lucky A_n_g_e_l_a
John


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## Anonymous (24 Jul 2007)

Enough is enough.

This has run its course and is now locked.


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