# Cast iron fan light window- advice



## DavidConnelly (29 Oct 2022)

Hi my friend has just moved into a flat in Edinburgh and the fanlight window, which I think is cast iron needs repaired or replaced.
He is looking for advice as to where to get it done. Or suitable alternatives to replicate the design. It's about 6ft accross.
Anyone have any ideas?


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## bourbon (29 Oct 2022)

In what way does it need repairing? If It's a flat and leasehold, then more investigation is needed


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## Spectric (29 Oct 2022)

Could this be under some listed status?


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## MARK.B. (29 Oct 2022)

It would be a crying shame to replace it with a modern alternative, from the picture it does not appear to be damaged so i would very carefully strip away all that paint from the frame and glass to see if there is any hidden damage underneath, then repaint it taking the time to mask the glass properly. I bet given some love and attention it could be good for another 100+ years,


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## Marischal Ellis (29 Oct 2022)

Depends on where exactly it is . Looks like the new town area so may be listed. If, a big if , if you can find anyone in the LA to speak with the conservation section should be able to give a guarded answer. 
Frame taken out and treated as said by Mark it will be good for a good long while. The local authority is difficult to find now as they still work from home so don't hold your breath. May be timber but may be cast. Looks ok. Repair insitu? Best wishes to all.


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## Jacob (29 Oct 2022)

Whatever you do don't attempt to strip paint/putty with a blow lamp or it could crack the cast iron in unexpected places.
Scots are big on conservation and you should be able to get some good advice, which most likely will be to clean it gently, reglaze if necessary, paint.





Edinburgh World Heritage Trust - entry on the Building Conservation Website


Edinburgh World Heritage: Special interest group and information resource



www.buildingconservation.com


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## DavidConnelly (29 Oct 2022)

Thanks. it is a listed building.


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## Jacob (29 Oct 2022)

DavidConnelly said:


> Thanks. it is a listed building.


PS forgot to say - looking at the photo there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it which demands attention but trying to "improve" it could be a bad move.


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## DavidConnelly (30 Oct 2022)

Sorry folks my mistake. We need to make an entirely new one. The photo is of a similar one next door. See new photo. So how do we go about it?


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## Terry - Somerset (30 Oct 2022)

Your best bet is almost certainly architectural salvage - eg:

Fanlight


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## jimmy_s (30 Oct 2022)

I work with some architects in Edinburgh that do a fair bit of work in refurbishment of old buildings in Edinburgh such as Drummond Place, Atholl crescent and Melville St etc. I can ask them where they source such items if you want. I seem to remember new cast iron parts being sourced for stairs on one job. Failing that depending on the extent of damage could it not be welded with the appropriate rods?


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## niall Y (30 Oct 2022)

Judging by the photo, there looks to be a small crack in the bottom right lobed panel, also there are three tiny triangular glass pieces that are painted over, which could be an indication that they have been replaced with a piece of thin board or sheet metal. From outward appearances it looks to be in fairly good condition.

If this is all that is wrong, then it should be fairly simple to make some templates and have the glass cut. this will be thinner than normal, and hand blown. Ones best bet at getting this done would be a a stained glass place.

I would agree with others about not using heat to soften the putty, best stick to a strong commercially available paint stripper, that will also do the job. In short, if my guess is correct, the repair should be quite simple to undertake.

Ooops! just seen the last post............... In light of this I would try contacting some of the larger architectural salvage firms in the area. They often have associations with firms who repair and supply reproductions of the items they sell.


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2022)

Probably model it in wood, make a mould and cast in aluminium.
There'll be somebody in Edinburgh used to doing this.


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## DavidConnelly (30 Oct 2022)

jimmy_s said:


> I work with some architects in Edinburgh that do a fair bit of work in refurbishment of old buildings in Edinburgh such as Drummond Place, Atholl crescent and Melville St etc. I can ask them where they source such items if you want. I seem to remember new cast iron parts being sourced for stairs on one job. Failing that depending on the extent of damage could it not be welded with the appropriate rods?


Thanks any info would be greatly appreciated


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## rogxwhit (30 Oct 2022)

The proper answer is to commission an iron foundry, who will make a pattern and cast it. As a woodworker one could conceivably do the patternmaking oneself, but hopefully in consultation with the foundry so that the correct function is achieved.


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## jimmy_s (30 Oct 2022)

Normally when making up patterns shrinkage has to be accounted for as metal cools. If the frame is circa 6 foot long then shrinkage would need to be factored in.


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## J-G (30 Oct 2022)

DavidConnelly said:


> Sorry folks my mistake. We need to make an entirely new one. The photo is of a similar one next door. See new photo. So how do we go about it?View attachment 146124


If that Fanlight is 6' across, the door must be 4' wide ??


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## Adam W. (30 Oct 2022)

Make an exact copy out of timber, it'll be easy enough to do.


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## Fergie 307 (30 Oct 2022)

rogxwhit said:


> The proper answer is to commission an iron foundry, who will make a pattern and cast it. As a woodworker one could conceivably do the patternmaking oneself, but hopefully in consultation with the foundry so that the correct function is achieved.


I would agree, unless you are lucky enough to find a salvage one the right size. if you take some accurate measurements and photos a foundry should be able to do that. As said the pattern needs to be made quite a bit oversize as iron castings shrink. I would google ornamental iron foumders or similar, there are still people about who do these sort of commissions, not going to be cheap though as a lot of work in making the pattern.


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## Doug71 (30 Oct 2022)

If none of the above suggestions work out or you want the cheapest solution buy a sheet of Tricoya MDF, cut the shapes you need out and stick them to a piece of glass (someone had to suggest it)!

I know not the proper way to do it but could look practically the same for a fraction of the cost.

Nothing like the one needed but this one I made was double glazed and had the glazing bars just stuck on.


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Make an exact copy out of timber, it'll be easy enough to do.


Structural integrity could be a prob.
I wondered about making each radial glazing bar and the semicircular bit in one piece, like a walking stick, and then putting them together, but it's a sharp angle. 
Some years ago I had to remove some vandalised ornate windows from a Paxton building (Matlock Bath Station) and replace and glaze them with cast aluminium copies which were provided by the contractor so I had no part in the copying, but was impressed with the copies. Interestingly the originals weren't cast iron as expected but were folded sheet zinc, cut and soldered at each join. Patent glazing - you could make any pattern you liked by joining the straight glazing bars. I wondered if they made curved sections too, kept meaning to research it. The patents were probably Paxton's office's.


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## niall Y (30 Oct 2022)

An alternative is to revert to an older way of making these , which was to use a wooden frame, with cast lead mouldings . There are firms who still make them this way, such as Sambrook & Temperton.


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## Adam W. (30 Oct 2022)

Jacob said:


> Structural integrity could be a prob.
> I wondered about making each radial glazing bar and the semicircular bit in one piece, like a walking stick, and then putting them together, but it's a sharp angle.
> Some years ago I had to remove some vandalised ornate windows from a Paxton building (Matlock Bath Station) and replace and glaze them with cast aluminium copies which were provided by the contractor so I had no part in the copying, but was impressed with the copies. Interestingly the originals weren't cast iron as expected but were folded sheet zinc, cut and soldered at each join. Patent glazing - you could make any pattern you liked by joining the straight glazing bars. I wondered if they made curved sections too, kept meaning to research it. The patents were probably Paxton's office's.


The voussoirs are doing the structural bit, so I wonder if you mean stiffness instead?


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2022)

Adam W. said:


> The voussoirs are doing the structural bit, so I wonder if you mean stiffness instead?


I was thinking how you'd do the 3 way join where the straight bar meets the two curved.
No prob if cast or soldered but not easy in wood on external joinery


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## Adam W. (30 Oct 2022)

Jacob said:


> I was thinking how you'd do the 3 way join where the straight bar meets the two curved.
> No prob if cast or soldered but not easy in wood on external joinery


That's the tricky part for sure.

I worked on a 10' tall timber window in Oregon which had a fan at the top and it was very flexy indeed, quite worrying really as we had to work off the ladder propped against it at the time.


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## HOJ (30 Oct 2022)

My little brain has an idea! could they not be made as individual elements in timber and then glued together/laminated, and planted on, for example:



Rough idea.


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2022)

HOJ said:


> My little brain has an idea! could they not be made as individual elements in timber and then glued together/laminated, and planted on, for example:
> View attachment 146150
> 
> Rough idea.


Could be the way to make a pattern for a mould, even if not viable in itself?


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## Silfi (30 Oct 2022)

This company a short distance from Edinburgh would be worth a look--








Home - P. Johnson & Company







www.rathobyresforge.co.uk




Their work is absolutely stunnning.


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## rogxwhit (30 Oct 2022)

I'm seeing it as a foundry job rather than a forge job. Not only will there be a rebate but very likely a moulding too on the reverse.


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2022)

rogxwhit said:


> I'm seeing it as a foundry job rather than a forge job. Not only will there be a rebate but very likely a moulding too on the reverse.


Yes. But just putty rebate on the other side, no mouldings.


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## Jones (31 Oct 2022)

Try Ballantines castings in Boness just outside Edinburgh, they probably did the original one and have likely still got the pattern. For a cheaper option get some masking tape and paint it on.


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## Limey Lurker (31 Oct 2022)

Having priced, many years ago, the replacement of a very much smaller and very much simpler iron casting, I would examine every other source before deciding on a new casting of this complexity! And if a new casting was inevitable, I'd have it cast in Aluminium, because there would be less likelyhood of cracking whilst cooling.


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