# Mythical L-N chisels not so mythical



## Alf (19 Mar 2004)

Look what I found:
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/tool.html?id=SC-Set&cart=1079715360373141

Could it really be that these long awaited chisels will finally be actually available? :shock: 

Cheers, Alf

Wondering if this is a scoop, 'cos I've not seen this page linked to any where else yet.


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## Charley (19 Mar 2004)

Great find Alf


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## Chris Knight (19 Mar 2004)

Alf,

No sooner the word than the blow - I just ordered some (many thanks indeed for the "heads-up"). I shall keep you posted as to delivery - I expect it will be after the 20,000 folk or so who put their order down two or three years ago.


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## Alf (19 Mar 2004)

Crikey Chris, you don't hang about do you? I thought you had those famous MIB* Jennings chisels? Must be living in some kind of chisel black hole... :lol: Oh, and by the way, I'm as jealous as hell. I've been drooling over these for two years now :roll: 

Cheers, Alf

*No, not Men In Black peeps, Mint In Box :wink:


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## Chris Knight (19 Mar 2004)

Alf,
When you get to my age, you realise that things have to be done soon or you may not get a chance to do them at all!

I love my Jennings chisels and use them a tremendous amount but like you love planes, I love chisels and have long since given up trying to justify them - besides, they take up less room than planes and cost less - sometimes!


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## Alf (19 Mar 2004)

waterhead37":2vdf8euo said:


> like you love planes, I love chisels


I wouldn't say I love them, I just say that to get them to go home with me... :lol: I think suggesting I'm purely plane fixated is unfair btw. I like _all_ tools :wink: I blame Tom L-N; if only he hadn't handed that ruddy chisel to me to look at last year I could probably have honestly told myself I wasn't interested. :evil: As it is, I'm hopelessly hooked :roll: 

Cheers, Alf

P.S. You didn't _have_ to go and post that pic now, did you?


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## Chris Knight (19 Mar 2004)

Here was the first resonse from LN

_"Dear Woodworker,

Thank you for your order. It will be processed immediately.
If for any reason we cannot ship it right away (such as a tool being
out of stock) we will notify you.

Please review your order. If there are any errors, or if you wish to
make changes, simply reply to this message (please include your
contact information) or call toll-free at 1-800-327-2520."_

But here is the second email from LN so the chisels may still be mythical - 

_"Chris,

Thank you for your order. We are starting production on the chisels soon
and still have alot of backorders to fill. Your order should ship within
the next month or two and I will email you as soon as your order is sent.

Thanks again,

Jennifer"_


I am not holding my breath!


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## Alf (20 Mar 2004)

Month or two? Bummer. But then we feared as much.

Cheers, Alf


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## chiba (20 Mar 2004)

Those LN's look very tasty, but am I allowed to ask a heretical question like, "are they three times better than a set of Hirsch's?", or is this no place for talk like that? :wink:


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## Alf (21 Mar 2004)

Chiba,

Define "better". :wink: They'll both cut wood. But then so will "7 + an oilstone, yours for a tenner" chisels. I suppose it's avoiding the pain involved in getting them to do it that you're mainly paying for. Not just sharpening or flattening the backs, but also comfort in actual use. Yep, people often argue that handles and balance and such aren't important, but then there are also people who say using hand planes is a waste of time. If you don't know what you're missing, then yep, you're right, it's not going to make any difference to you. Once you _have_ felt the difference, or seen the surface left by a well-tuned plane, it's very hard to go back (DAMHIKT). :roll: It's not for nothing that L-N have been handing them to people to hold at shows for the last year or so; they know once you've got the feel of them it's very hard to go back to other chisels. :lol: 

One other thing that I think people might be getting for that extra cash is _consistency_. How many times have you read someone say such-and-such a chisel holds its edge brilliantly, and isn't the handle great? And then along comes someone else who says they're useless; the edge was like cheese and the handle wasn't fitted straight. (Heck, I've done it myself). Now I've tended to put that down to the personal experience of the individual in the past, but that doesn't always work. I think you get more inconsistency in the quality of supposedly identical chisels then we'd like to believe (I think Sorby suffers from this problem quite a bit, for instance). Now unless L-N have had a total turnaround in their ethos, I reckon _their_ chisels will be consistently well finished, heat treated, ground etc etc. So you, and your bank account, will know _what_ you've paid :shock: but you'll also be confident in what you're _getting for it_. 

But whether they're 3 times better is entirely down to the individual to my mind; for lots of people the answer will be no, but others will consider them worth every extra penny. The beauty of woodworking is that we can have such diverse viewpoints about the tools, but we all still have the actual _woodworking_ in common.  

Oh, and this is absolutely no place for such heresy. Didn't you get the memo? :roll: :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## chiba (21 Mar 2004)

Believe me, I know where you're coming from. My other hobby is photography, and I've been all the way down that oft discussed slippery slope with lenses, cameras, tripods, etc, etc. With photo toys I found that once I'd hit the technological bottom, I found a (steeper) slope that led back up to a very different place. Now I have pretty much no technology, but am a far better photographer than I was before. See, I worry about that happening with woodwork too. Spend a pile of money on getting the best, but eventually having a revelatory moment and realising I should have spent far less time worrying about the tools and more time using them. It's very hard to say that now though, with all those beautiful tools still left to buy. I mean, I haven't even got a drawknife yet!  To me it seems like those LN chisels are a grade better than the Hirsch's, but unless I become a lot better at woodwork sadly I'll never notice the difference.

Maybe this waffle is also because I just got back from my bamboo making class, where my 70+ year old sensei proved yet again that bamboo art is all in the mind and hands, and the only tool necessary is an ancient pocket knife...


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## Chris Knight (21 Mar 2004)

Chiba,

I don't think it is a case of "what sort of chisel do I need to make furniture like Hepplewhite or Chippendale" but rather the pleasure of owning and using a fine tool. Perhaps a bit like using a Nikon SLR versus a Kodak box Brownie - to borrow your photographic analogy.

Great photos have been taken with both and Cartier Bresson would have taken a better picture with a Kodak than I will every take with a Nikon- but I will still enjoy fondling my Nikon and Cartier Bresson would have taken even better pictures if he had had one.


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## Chronosoft (21 Mar 2004)

Im off to New England (amongst other places) later this year and I will have just enough time to visit L-N at thier factory in Maine, so along with a couple of planes, I think a set of chisels will be bought, repackaged and mailed home in brown paper. 

I got some marples chisels from a guy who worked for record in sheffield and although they are nice - you spend more time sharpening the damn things than using them. 

I agree that there has to be a rightness of how they feel, mine have plastic handles and a collegue had a set of 3 cherries chisles and they felt just beautifully balanced in the hand.


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## Chris Knight (27 Mar 2004)

Saw this:-

Subject: From the horse's mouth 
Posted By: Ellis Walentine [email protected]
Date: Friday, 26 March 2004, at 11:04 a.m. 
In Response To: Lie-Nielsen Chisels *LINK* (Matt in Iowa) 

I just got off the phone with Tom L-N and he confirms that the first chisels are shipping today. I'll be seeing the production models tomorrow in Saratoga. 

Hope to see some of you there. 

Ellis


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## docusk (18 Dec 2007)

I just want to stick my four pennorth in. I used to worry about chisels because my skill at the sharpening stone was extremely suspect. Now I have a Tormek sharpening kit and my chisels are always sharper that sharp, better that I've ever had them - even when they were new maybe.
BTW, I have no connection with Tormek apart from thinking it's a bit costly.

docusk


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## Ryan Cathey (18 Dec 2007)

waterhead37":2tzfm7my said:


> Saw this:-
> 
> I'll be seeing the production models tomorrow in Saratoga.
> 
> ...



Hey, you Brits remeber that time we beat you guys at Saratoga? Sorry, I love history and just couldn't help it :lol:


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## David C (18 Dec 2007)

Alf's link not working for me.

What chisels please?

Fishtail?

David


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## gidon (18 Dec 2007)

This was posted in 2004! This was their first bench chisels I guess.
Cheers
Gidon


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## Paul Kierstead (18 Dec 2007)

Yeah, I was all like "what mythical chisels??? they coming out with another set?" and reaching for my wallet when I noticed the date..


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## AHoman (19 Dec 2007)

Ryan Cathey":2yvtjdjh said:


> Hey, you Brits remeber that time we beat you guys at Saratoga? Sorry, I love history and just couldn't help it :lol:



Hush, Ryan, when we remind them about that, they get picky about our spelling! 
-Andy


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## Tom K (19 Dec 2007)

Shucks yeah it seems like only 230 yrs ago! :roll: not much further back than this thread really. :wink: 

Regards Tom


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## bugbear (19 Dec 2007)

gidon":1t40xmqh said:


> This was posted in 2004! This was their first bench chisels I guess.
> Cheers
> Gidon




Sigh. When this thread (re)appeared, I though Alf was back.

BugBear


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## Jake (19 Dec 2007)

I don't get the sense that Alf will be coming back here from the other forum in a hurry, BB.


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## Streepips (19 Dec 2007)

I think most people would be happy using any old chisel as long as its the right size and its sharp. Thats not to say that a wonderfully made tool is not desirable for the epitome value but sometimes its just not practical..
I mean, if you are a carpenter or joiner and the most you use your chisels for is cutting out hinges and locks when hanging doors, it would be a sin to use a state of the art chisel, when a stanley or marples would do the job perfectly well.
Same goes for sharpening, the variety of methods, tools jigs and materials is huge and it becomes difficult to be objective about what methods and materials to buy and even how to use them. I have a Scheppach tiger 2500, some diamond plates, different grades of oil stones and water stones, and of course glass sheet contact adhesive and emery paper...... but one of the most pleasing sharpening ups I ever did was when stuck on a job site and needing a chisel only to realise I had left my chisels in the workshop. One dull 3/4" chisel in the bottom of a toolbox....
I stoned it on the clients doorstep, ( stone not concrete!) and was quite surprised at how good an edge was got. Desperate measures yes, but certainly put things into perspective re: what you *think you need* and what you actually need...............So why have I got the Scheppach Tiger? and the other stuff? Well the customer wouldn`t let me take his doorstep..........and the stones are passed down through my family, some from uncles, grandfathers, etc....Not a clue what they all are but they do the job..

Oh by the way, Ryan.
When referring to the British surrender at Saratoga in October 1777 be sure to remember simultaneous events, such as the defeat of Washngton at Brandywine, the very same Washington who was allowed to go free after the battle of Brooklyn which he also lost.
Also when you say "we" I assume you refer to America, plus France, plus Spain, and Prussia, your allies, and your other allies at sea, Sweden, Russia, and Denmark that hindered the British navy, thus preventing their munitions and reinforcements. 
and after that we whupped Washington again, this time in his home town.....
I like my history too.


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## Smudger (19 Dec 2007)

Jake":1g1e7pdz said:


> I don't get the sense that Alf will be coming back here from the other forum in a hurry, BB.




Pity.


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## Ryan Cathey (20 Dec 2007)

Streepips":330kpu9e said:


> Oh by the way, Ryan.
> When referring to the British surrender at Saratoga in October 1777 be sure to remember simultaneous events, such as the defeat of Washngton at Brandywine, the very same Washington who was allowed to go free after the battle of Brooklyn which he also lost.
> Also when you say "we" I assume you refer to America, plus France, plus Spain, and Prussia, your allies, and your other allies at sea, Sweden, Russia, and Denmark that hindered the British navy, thus preventing their munitions and reinforcements.
> and after that we whupped Washington again, this time in his home town.....
> I like my history too.



Jeeze, just a joke. Didn't figure you guys would be so touchy over it still :roll:


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## Smudger (20 Dec 2007)

I thought he got you pretty good...


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## Streepips (20 Dec 2007)

Just honing a point Ryan,


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## pam niedermayer (20 Dec 2007)

Hey, hey, we all know that we were the under funded guerillas and you were the big guy with all the troops, arms, and money. All we had to do was hang around long enough for you to decide you didn't want to fight anymore, make it too expensive for you to want to pursue it. That last touch with Cornwall in Yorktown was pretty neat, but you had the means to keep fighting if you'd been willing.

The story is repeated time and again (says a lot about men's ability to reason, right?), in Viet Nam/USA, Afganistan/USSR, ad nauseum.

Pam


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## Saintsman (20 Dec 2007)

So anyway, how are you getting along without us ?

Saintsman


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## pam niedermayer (20 Dec 2007)

"Us" being men or the UK? As for men, I certainly don't want to even try to get along without you; but I sure wish you could bring your testosterone under control, grow a bit more neocortex, or whatever it takes to stop killing us. The world can't stand many more Bushes, Cheneys, et al.

As to the UK, as a woman who's always worked, I'm probably better off in the US, but it's a matter of a very few degrees. I like it that we don't yet have any inner city driving taxes, except for New York, which is no joy to drive in anyway, better to park in the burbs and take the train. I just love our health insurance system (note I didn't say health care). NOT. Hmmm, I don't know. 

Pam


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## Saintsman (20 Dec 2007)

Actually, analysts have finally worked out the reasoning behind Dubya's foreign policy: the Yanks feel so bad about being late for the last two world wars that they want to make sure they're really prompt for the next one..............

Only kidding, guys: we love you really !

Saintsman

I was referring to the colonies getting along without the mother country


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## woodbloke (20 Dec 2007)

The Saintsman wrote:


> Actually, analysts have finally worked out the reasoning behind Dubya's foreign policy: the Yanks feel so bad about being late for the last two world wars that they want to make sure they're really prompt for the next one..............


Nice :wink: - Rob


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## Ryan Cathey (20 Dec 2007)

Saintsman":d9aiu665 said:


> Actually, analysts have finally worked out the reasoning behind Dubya's foreign policy: the Yanks feel so bad about being late for the last two world wars that they want to make sure they're really prompt for the next one..............



Haha, that's a good one. It'll be sad to see Dubya go. He unites people through group making-fun-of . Even if you like the guy you can't help but mae fun of him


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## Streepips (20 Dec 2007)

It is important to note that the hostilities between the British and the Americans as highlighted here by mention of Saratoga were by no means to be read as that of two sides in implacable opposition, in fact a short distance from my home town in Yorkshire and in the grounds of a stately home is the following example of celebration of the Independence gained by the Americans











The Triumphal Arch, 'The lasting memorial of the Parlington Estate'


The monument is situated to the north of the site of the hall at the end of a delightful beech lined avenue. Sir Thomas Gascoigne had the Arch erected around the late eighteenth century. It is believed locally that the arch was to be the entrance to a new house.

The archives in Leeds have a document attributed to Sir Thomas Gascoigne giving his original statement for the arch, as follows, "To that virtue which for a series of years resisted oppression and by a glorious race rescued its country and millions from slavery", this was too lengthy for the available space and was edited to the inscription you see today.

The conceptual architectural drawings for the house and the arch are in the Leeds Archive and well worth a visit.
The Inscription reads:
Liberty in N.America Triumphant MDCCLXXXIII and is repeated on both elevations.

And lets not forget if it wasn't for the American civil war then Henry Disston of the saw fame would never have amassed the capital he did, supplying the union army with steel for its war efforts ( He manufactured his own steel, a first in America, ) using the English Bessemer crucible process for making high quality carbon steel. Thus freeing up the handsaw market in America from being dependent on handsaw imports from England.
Mind you, Henry was English anyway, born in Tewkesbury Gloucestershire


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## Tom K (20 Dec 2007)

An interesting post but you seem to be mixing the American Civil war and the War of Independence into one. The date from your inscription appears to be 1783.



> The archives in Leeds have a document attributed to Sir Thomas Gascoigne giving his original statement for the arch, as follows, "To that virtue which for a series of years resisted oppression and by a glorious race rescued its country and millions from slavery", this was too lengthy for the available space and was edited to the inscription you see today.



Whats all that to do with Saratoga? I think it should be remembered that the war was between the Crown and British Colonists


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## Ryan Cathey (21 Dec 2007)

Just so everyone knows, I wasn't trying to start something. Just a little dorky history joke is all  . Nice post btw, Streepips.


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## Streepips (21 Dec 2007)

Tommo dont be so pedantic, it was a generalised view derived from a particular topic, the timelines are not of the essence here, the ghist is the overview that such events that seems so fixed are not irrevocably so, but that there are various perspectives and consequences and aspects of such events, even those as similar yet different as the two separate wars mentioned which have in their own way brought about greater understanding and cooperation between nations and ..........OK you win, I should have introduced the latter paragraph more elegantly.
( and how quick could you have carved it then anyway?)


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## Tom K (21 Dec 2007)

Am I paraphrasing myself?


> Whats all that to do with Saratoga? I think it should be remembered that the war was between the Crown and British Colonists


 I was going to add and lead to the birth of one of the greatest nations on earth :lol:

I'm not really into carving much and I don't particularly think those chisels are suited!

Ryan said


> Just so everyone knows, I wasn't trying to start something. Just a little dorky history joke is all


Its only a bit of banter mate I haven't spoken to many people lately who are deeply upset about it :wink:


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## Ryan Cathey (21 Dec 2007)

Tommo the sawdust maker":1d6jdnk0 said:


> Its only a bit of banter mate I haven't spoken to many people lately who are deeply upset about it :wink:



Ok, just making sure


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## Richard S (23 Dec 2007)

Hay Ryan

Remember the time the Brits sailed up the Potomac and raised Washington?

Thought not, funny how this piece of history is almost entirely missing from U.S history books. :twisted:


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## Streepips (23 Dec 2007)

Richard,
Whatever you do don`t mention the war. I did, but I think I got away with it .........................


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## Richard S (23 Dec 2007)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Tom K (23 Dec 2007)

That is an interesting use of phonetic spelling.


> Hay Ryan





Streepips":2sfr2853 said:


> Richard,
> Whatever you do don`t mention the war. I did, but I think I got away with it .........................


Which one?

Regards Tom


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## Streepips (23 Dec 2007)

Could have been worse, could have been "Hay Rick",


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## Tom K (23 Dec 2007)

(homer) Doh Ryan doesn't get Brit humour though

Merry Xmas Regards Tom


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## Streepips (23 Dec 2007)

Well it is a little like a good Sauterne, too dry for some tastes *


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## Tom K (24 Dec 2007)

Ryan Cathey":21blt3mz said:


> Tommo the sawdust maker":21blt3mz said:
> 
> 
> > Its only a bit of banter mate I haven't spoken to many people lately who are deeply upset about it :wink:
> ...



Not at all sure Ryan understood it referred to Saratoga and not his comments :lol:


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## Ryan Cathey (25 Dec 2007)

No, I understood just fine :lol:


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## Tom K (25 Dec 2007)

Happy Holidays Ryan :ho2 Gawd bless us every one!

Regards Tom


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## Ryan Cathey (26 Dec 2007)

Tommo the sawdust maker":3ffrc6z6 said:


> Happy Holidays Ryan :ho2 Gawd bless us every one!
> 
> Regards Tom



Thanks Tommo! I hope yours was as Merry as mine


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