# Hand Stitched Rasps



## James C (15 Aug 2012)

I have been mulling these over for the last few days now, as I think they would be quite useful for shaping some curved work that I'm doing for the missus.

I wanted to know if anyone uses them and could recommend a particular type?

Currently I'm thinking of going with the continental ones on Workshop Heaven from Matt as they seem good quality and reasonably priced, compared to paying £90 for an Auriou.

Maybe a half round with a coarseness of 3.

Any recommendations?


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## promhandicam (15 Aug 2012)

Liogier


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## woodbloke (15 Aug 2012)

promhandicam":1gscsfaa said:


> Liogier


Far, far too spendy. i've tried the new Continental range from WH (and also a few of the premium French ones)...the same performance at a fraction of the cost. It's a bit of a 'no brainer' really - Rob


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## promhandicam (15 Aug 2012)

woodbloke":2xie8ppq said:


> promhandicam":2xie8ppq said:
> 
> 
> > Liogier
> ...



Quelles conneries ! - if you'll pardon my French. A 200mm No6 from Workshop Heaven is £40.50 - a 200mm #11 is €58 which according to XE currency conversion is £45.44.

(Edited to get round the swear filter which only understands English!)


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## James C (15 Aug 2012)

Ok so I have two to consider but my questions still are:

What length 6" or 8"?

What grade of stitching?

It's for shaping hardwoods on larger pieces.


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## woodbloke (15 Aug 2012)

promhandicam":7r85sv5l said:


> woodbloke":7r85sv5l said:
> 
> 
> > promhandicam":7r85sv5l said:
> ...


...but a set of six Steve, is around £180 which means that each is around £30 (if me maffs is correct) and that includes a leather wallet (the total cost is less if you were to order them singly) The Auriou rasps are even more exotic and more spendy than the Logier, or so I understand - Rob


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## jimi43 (15 Aug 2012)

i've tried cheaper ones and the Liogier on the passaround and the latter knocks spots off anything I have found.

I've not tried Matthew's ones so I will bow to your wider experience Rob but the Liogier is worth every single penny it costs and if you watch the video of them being made you will think them cheap indeed...a bit like hand forged Japanese chisels eh!? :wink: 

Now I can afford to do so I shall be putting my money where my mouth is and getting one...or three! :mrgreen: 

Jim


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## James C (15 Aug 2012)

Which ones will you be getting Jimi? Hopefully it might help me make my choice.


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## jimi43 (16 Aug 2012)

James C":198o6h9i said:


> Which ones will you be getting Jimi? Hopefully it might help me make my choice.



I tend to buy relatively expensive tools (not available in bootfairs! 8) ) on a "need for a job" basis.

My next step will be to ask any maker for their advice....and go with that...after all..they make them, they should know.

I think a handle-shaping one or two will be my first purchases...because I will be making an infill handle soon. It would be difficult for me to suggest a specific one or more for you as I don't know what you will be using it for. So I suggest you do the same. 

Whatever brand or quality level you choose...ask the maker. Tell him what you want it for...Noel and Matthew are exceedingly knowledgeable people...you can't go wrong with either really.

Jim


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## James C (16 Aug 2012)

Thanks for the advice, that seems like a really good idea.


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## Harbo (16 Aug 2012)

I have a few of WH's older range but have not tried Matthew's latest ones so cannot really comment on them.
I have a few Aurious ( bought when they had gone bust) and a Liogier.
The Liogiers are half the price and just as good as the Aurious.
They cut extremely fast and Ieave a fine finish and I personally would not go coarser than grain 12 unless you are removing a massive amount of timber?
I also use grains 13 & 15 a lot too.
Mine are the 6 & 8" Cabinet Makers though I also have a Saw Handle Makers from Tools for Working Wood.
I think Noel Liogier makes a similar one now?
Noel speaks excellent English and is very approachable - tell him you are from UKW.

Rod


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## James C (16 Aug 2012)

I will bear that in mind for when I call.


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## woodbloke (16 Aug 2012)

jimi43":9f0uonqs said:


> I've not tried Matthew's ones ...
> Jim


At Pete Sefton's Bash earlier last month, I asked Matt to bring along a few of his new Continental rasps and I compared these to my original Chiwanese rasps that I'd bought from him about three years ago. The new ones were light years ahead...still hand stitched and made in France though, but not with the premium price tag. Bit like _some_ Japanese chisels Jim :lol: - Rob


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## Cheshirechappie (16 Aug 2012)

+1 for Matthew's continental hand-stiched rasps. The walnut handles on these are good too, nice shape, comfortable to hold, and attractive without being showy. I bought an 8" no. 2 and a 6" no. 5 cabinet rasps for some shaping jobs in hardwood, and was so impressed I went back for a couple of round ones. The cabinet ones are handy because they've got a flat side as well as a curved one, which is great for reverse curved jobs. The website gives recommendations for the best uses of each size and grade of rasp, which is most helpful.

They are surprisingly versatile. The coarse one will hog off wood at an alarming rate, but used lightly is remarkably controllable. The little one leaves a finish that just needs refining with abrasive papers. I found that they don't tend to clog, but a clean-up with an old nailbrush when the job's done is all they neded.

The Liogier website is worth a look, too. I haven't indulged (yet) but the range of sizes and types is very broad. It would be a very demanding rasper who couldn't find what they needed here, I think. I haven't tried Auriou, but I don't doubt that they're of very high quality.


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## Harbo (16 Aug 2012)

From what I have read above, it seems that the WH ones have different grain numbering from the other French brands so worth checking out?
There's a review of the Liogier ones on the Forum - try a search?
I organised a Liogier Hand Stitched Rasp Pass-around which sadly came to an untimely end somewhere between Cambournepete and Wood Master in the Postal System.
Even a claim to the PO proved fruitless!


Rod


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## mickthetree (16 Aug 2012)

I've had little luck with claiming off the post office.

I'm in the market for a Liogier handle making rasp (the one with the bend in). 

Anyone interested in looking into another group order?


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## Klaus Kretschmar (16 Aug 2012)

There is some experience here on working with rasps while making saw handles. I've worked with cheap low end rasps, with quality ones and with high end tools. The short conclusion: you get what you pay for.

Machine stitched rasps generally are working rough, are not that easy to steer and leave a rogh, patterned surface that needs to be smoothed with another tool. The exception are those Japanese carving files from Iwasaki. They work quick and leave a very good surface quality. The downside is, that they aren't that easy to handle. One has to take care to give no downforce and to hold the tool slightly skew while working. It's a matter of practice to get good results.

Hand stitched rasps generally are another world. Even the cheaper ones are delightful to use since they are to steer very easy (and precisely!). The surface quality is significantly nicer than the one you will get with machine stitched rasps. 

High quality hand stitched rasps like the Liogier play on a very different level to my eyes. They combine all qualities you look for. The immediate visible difference to cheaper ones is the by far higher number of stitches. That results in fabulous working characteristics. The tools are very easy to steer (it's like they would know, what they shall do sometimes) and they allow absolute precision work. That's important while working on smaller workpieces like tool handles. And they leave the best surface of all rasps I know. If you need to have a top notch shaping tool because it gets some use in your shop, don't waste your time with cheap rasps. It's a different story when you need to have a rasp just for one project. Then a cheap tool probably will be the better choice.

I'm the proud owner of 3 Liogier handle maker's rasps that are stitched with 9, 12 and 15. They beat all, what I ever have worked with before. I want to make a video that shows the shaping of a saw handle whith these rasps. Due to some current health issues that will take some time though.

Klaus


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## James C (16 Aug 2012)

Thanks for the information Klaus, I'm definitely sold on buying decent quality tools.

With a small potential tax rebate coming my way I might be able to get some in, with maybe another tool or two..... or several.


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## Vann (17 Aug 2012)

mickthetree":1zle9lrz said:


> Anyone interested in looking into another group order?



If there is another group buy I'll be in.

Cheers, Vann.


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## woodbrains (19 Aug 2012)

Hello,

I've not been a big user of rasps in the past, but got a WH cabinet rasp to give them a go (have used awful machine made ones in the past and only recently researched into better examples).

What sort of life expectancy should we see from a good rasp? Obviously they cannot be resharpened, but surely the stitches cannot last for ever. Is the steel file hard? I'm guessing slightly less so, as the stitches could break off if the steel was brittle. In which case, I would imagine there could be noticable wear on the tool. This would make me think twice about spending £80 and above for an Auriou.

Mike.


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## Harbo (19 Aug 2012)

Have a look at Noel Liogier's site to see a video of their manufacture.
This was posted by Noel in an earlier post:
"As regards the sharpness of the teeth, I don't expect that you notice a difference before many years of intensive use... as long as you store them safely."
I had my rasps for several years now and have not noticed any deterioration.

Rod


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## woodbloke (19 Aug 2012)

woodbrains":38e5scrf said:


> What sort of life expectancy should we see from a good rasp? Obviously they cannot be resharpened, but surely the stitches cannot last for ever.
> Mike.


They can, apparently. I spoke to Matt about this and he mentioned that you immerse them in Ferrric Chloride(?..could be the wrong stuff :duno: ) and this is supposed to put the edge back on the teeth. I haven't a clue how this works...maybe someone more rasp savvy can elucidate? - Rob


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## woodbrains (21 Aug 2012)

Hi.

Ferric chloride makes sense; it would give the steel a 'chemical etch' which would sort of sharpen the teeth. Would have to research the concentration of the solution and how long immersion should be, though. Hopefully we will have to wait a long time to find out.

Mike.


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## mickthetree (21 Aug 2012)

In layman's terms, is a "chemical etch" meaning it will eat away a little of the metal revealing fresh new material? I ghuess it will also dissolve any material caught up in the rasp as well?


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## condeesteso (21 Aug 2012)

I'm pretty sure the makers wouldn't endorse this... but I've heard Corro-dip used to restore metal files. My guess would be it removes material at a molecular level and may therefore restore sharpness. But I have to say I wouldn't risk it on hand-stitched rasps.
Re life expectancy, Noel's 'Traditional' should last many years of normal use. For a modest extra cost his Sapphire are worth a look if you are working very hard woods every day. The Sapphire hardness measures 3800 Vickers (says so on the site!)... a typical quality plane / chisel is around 800 Vickers (62 Rc).
It was a shame the pass-round went missing as Rod was all set to do a before and after test re sharpness, but I use mine a lot now and see no sign of deterioration at all (an occasional wash to remove resin deposits is a good trick though).


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## James C (21 Aug 2012)

It definitely says on the Liogier website that all is needed is a regular brushing and that submerging them in any form of acid will cause the metal to slowly decay.

It also makes the good observation that due to the manufacturing process the thinnest and therefore weakest part most susceptible to damage will be the edges of the teeth.

To me this makes it sound that submerging them won't actually prolong the life of the rasp, could even shorten it.


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## Vann (22 Aug 2012)

James C":3mxo3iue said:


> To me this makes it sound that submerging them won't actually prolong the life of the rasp, could even shorten it.


Probably best to wait until the alternative is to bin the files/rasps.

Cheers, Vann.


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## James C (23 Aug 2012)

I took the plunge with a number 4 200mm (8") Continental Hand Stitched Rasp from WH.

Rob is right, the Liogier is more expensive. I will get my rasp for around £38 including delivery. Where as the Liogier comes in around £55. 

I guess £17 isn't a lot but its money I can spend on something else.


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