# Are you thinking about getting a Festool MFT 3?



## Benchwayze (1 Apr 2014)

If you are lusting after one of these tables, there is a way of having the benefits, without the massive cash outlay. 

Use a deWalt track saw. It's a very good saw, but it has a different rail design to Festool. However, there is a way you can use the deWalt with the MFT; by using a set of Peter Parfitt's 'Parf-dogs' from Veritas. (Axminster stock them.)

Because the holes in the MFT top are machined with great accuracy, the 'Parf-dogs' can be aligned at exactly 90 or 45 degrees. This means you can align your deWalt track saw against the dogs, without need for the Festool protractor and the guide-rail of the MFT. With this set-up, you can do everything that the Festool saw will do on the MFT. 

All of that means you could get by, just by purchasing a spare top for the MFT, instead of the actual table. Mount it on a shop-made table. You can then use your deWalt (or whatever track-saw you have) with the Parf-dogs, instead of the Festool kit. Also, if you want to use a router with your deWalt guide-rail, there is a deWalt router 'carrier' for the deWalt rail enabling use of the deWalt 1/2" router in overhead mode, on the table. (As the deWalt is just an Elu 177e by another name, presumably that router could be used too.) 

I hope I explained it properly. I know it will work, and somewhere on the 'Tube, Peter Parfitt, demonstrates his dogs, even using a simple circular saw with them, on the MFT.

HTH someone.. 

Regards


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## Grahamshed (2 Apr 2014)

+1 for that. The precision drilling of the holes make the MFT table top the most useful tool in the workshop. Gotta get me one


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## Benchwayze (2 Apr 2014)

From the viewpoint of machine woodworking the MFT is a Big-Plus in the shop. Its accuracy is beyond question, and the finish from the T55 saw is impeccable. The table does work better when mounted on a heavyweight bench, fitted with castors. (At least I think so) and I shall be attending to that. 

I bought mine thinking it would help this old codger with breaking down sheets, and handling larger components when making kitchen cupboards, and the like. This it does, although had I known about the 'Parf-dogs' and the deWalt, at the time I could have saved myself a few bob; but there you go! 

I'm sure that someone with a high-end sliding-table saw, could break down sheets quicker than I can on the MFT; but even at Festool prices, my investment is still less than the cost of a good, 12" sliding-table saw; for which I don't have space anyhow. The MFT suits my shop-size, it makes life easier, and I think my Disston will be spending more time on its hook. :?  (All I need now is to save up for the TR75 Festool track saw, so I can cut a stack of plywood shelves in one go! :mrgreen: ) Actually I don't. I can use the Parf-dogs with a straight edge, and my ordinary circular saw, which does have a greater depth of cut!) 

Regards 
John


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## Grahamshed (2 Apr 2014)

John, Not sure how many of these tops you have but do you happen to know if the hole spacing would be maintained if you put two or more side by side ?


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## Stu_2 (2 Apr 2014)

+1. Using these MFT-style work surfaces with a TS55 has transformed the way I'm able to work. I'm limited for space in my workshop, and these have made all the difference.

I have all the usual TS 55 accessories, and can also vouch for Peter Parfitt's Parf Dogs, which are an excellent value accessory for these tables. One thing to note though is that if you have the current Bosch plunge saw, you will need to have a thin piece of material to lay between your track and the Parf dogs, as the sole plate will not clear them without a spacer strip.

I produce my own 'MFT-style' work surface, and have just started to produce them for others, too. They are 1220 x 600 x 18 Norbord Pro MDF. Holes are 20mm diameter at 100mm centres, which gives a healthy 66 holes per work surface. I use CNC machined templates, which allows me to produce perfectly aligned holes. They're are various options depending on what they're mounted to, but a standard top as described would be £35. I personally use a 1220 x 600 folding table by 'Life-Time' (Costco). I've just made one to mount to Keter folding workbench (Screwfix), and was very impressed by it. Very versatile and sturdy bit of kit, which folds away to a fairly small size 'case' in seconds. Only concern for me would be the availability of spare clamps, as they are proprietary to that bench.

If this helps anyone, feel free to contact me.

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (2 Apr 2014)

Hi Graham. 

As far as I am aware yes. I say this because there is an extension piece you can buy, which is not as big as the main table-top, and I would imagine that Festool cater for that in the design. You can buy a new top, because the table-top is considered as sacrificial after a period of use. This can look a mess after a while, but it makes no difference to the hole spacing or use of the holes. I suppose you could place scrap under the cutting area, but this affects the thickness setting of course, and you have to pack up the workpiece too. 

It's also a fairly easy job to make another top, using the original as a template. 

HTH

John 

There you go. Stu is probably the man to see. In fact, I will make a note for next month Stu! I can always stow a spare top in the attic! :mrgreen:


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## Skeety (2 Apr 2014)

Having seen both the Festool and Stu_2's version I actually think Stu's is far better quality.

I have one of his tops which we fitted to the Keter Bench last weekend. On the test cuts we did both 90 and 45 degrees using bench dogs and parf dogs which I also use the cuts were checked with a digital angle finder and were 100% accurate 

Cheers,

Jon.


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## Grahamshed (2 Apr 2014)

Stu - Can I ask you the same question. Are the holes set at a distance from the edge that would allow two two be placed side by side and retain the accuracy ?
Or alternatively can you produce longer ones ?


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## Stu_2 (2 Apr 2014)

Benchwayze":1stsez9r said:


> There you go. Stu is probably the man to see. In fact, I will make a note for next month Stu! I can always stow a spare top in the attic! :mrgreen:


You're more than welcome John 




Skeety":1stsez9r said:


> Having seen both the Festool and Stu_2's version I actually think Stu's is far better quality.


I wouldn't go that far, but thanks for the vote of confidence 




Grahamshed":1stsez9r said:


> Stu - Can I ask you the same question. Are the holes set at a distance from the edge that would allow two two be placed side by side and retain the accuracy ?
> Or alternatively can you produce longer ones ?


Afternoon Graham

Depends which edge. The hole centres are 50mm from the edge along the 1220mm side, which I'd consider the front and rear edges. However, from the ends the hole centres are 110mm. In theory two could be joined side by side and retain the same spacing, but end to end would require trimming. The only issue would be maintaining a perfectly true grid as my current template is 1200 x 600.

What size do you need the tops to be?


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## Grahamshed (2 Apr 2014)

Hi Stu
I was thinking of about 6ft x 2 ft ( say 1800 x 600 ) for a bench I am going to build but could be flexible


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## Stu_2 (2 Apr 2014)

Afternoon Graham

Should be possible. I'll need to investigate getting some tooling pins made up, which will enable me to overcome the current size limitation.

I'll check it out and let you know


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## Grahamshed (2 Apr 2014)

Thanks Stu.


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## pcb1962 (2 Apr 2014)

Skeety":2tq92jfp said:


> I have one of his tops which we fitted to the Keter Bench last weekend.



Did you raise it above the benchtop so that you can still screw the M8 knobs into the parfdogs, or don't you bother with the knobs?


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## Stu_2 (2 Apr 2014)

pcb1962":zpirl3yw said:


> Skeety":zpirl3yw said:
> 
> 
> > I have one of his tops which we fitted to the Keter Bench last weekend.
> ...


Evening mate

For Jon's Keter bench i had to fit 2 supports to the work surface, which were about 70mm x 45mm. That clearance height is needed to raise the work surface above the Keter clamping system. If the table were going to sit on a normal flat surface, only 50mm clearance is required to use the Festool or Axminster clamps, as well as accommodating the Festool knobs. If you don't have the knobs, a bolt and washer would do the job.

Cheers
Stu


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## SteveF (2 Apr 2014)

i am new to this idea

can this be retro-fitted into a workbench as a new build\design feature ?
looks like an option for me..maybe a bit of googling

Steve


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## Benchwayze (2 Apr 2014)

Steve, 

You could include an MDF 'plate' as part of your bench-top. It just needs planning I suppose. 
You don't HAVE to use the full matrix of holes. Just enough holes to enable use of the parf-dogs, for the most common cuts you make, which are likely to be 90 and 45 degrees. It's also going to be useful for routing housings across boards. I think the possibilities are limited only by your imagination. It will depend of course on how much hand work you do, and whether or not you want to move over to machines. 

HTH


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## marcros (2 Apr 2014)

SteveF":1a440d9d said:


> i am new to this idea
> 
> can this be retro-fitted into a workbench as a new build\design feature ?
> looks like an option for me..maybe a bit of googling
> ...



I was thinking this myself. I think that the bench would have to be central- if it was against a wall it would be limiting, and in my opinion a 2ft wide workbench is too wide.

I like the idea of using it on a portable bench somehow- it opens the opportunity for working outside, where sheet materials are that bit easier to deal with. The MFTC looks like a good starting point for ideas, and aside from the track saw cost is probably justifiable where the MFT may not be.


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## SteveF (3 Apr 2014)

I was thinking more for hand tools than a track saw tbh
ready built holes for dogs
not so much interested in the track saw use
and am I right in thinking that Stu's option could just be ripped narrower than the 600mm?
maybe down to 300mm and have a spare

Steve


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## marcros (3 Apr 2014)

never thought of it like that.


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## Stu_2 (3 Apr 2014)

SteveF":2jzf0uzx said:


> I was thinking more for hand tools than a track saw tbh
> ready built holes for dogs
> not so much interested in the track saw use
> and am I right in thinking that Stu's option could just be ripped narrower than the 600mm?
> ...


Morning Steve

Yes, there's no reason why you couldn't rip it to any width/depth you want. You could also have 3/4" dog holes if that better suits your current equipment.

Cheers
Stu


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## carlb40 (6 Apr 2014)

Stu_2":2prs982v said:


> +1. Using these MFT-style work surfaces with a TS55 has transformed the way I'm able to work. I'm limited for space in my workshop, and these have made all the difference.
> 
> I have all the usual TS 55 accessories, and can also vouch for Peter Parfitt's Parf Dogs, which are an excellent value accessory for these tables. One thing to note though is that if you have the current Bosch plunge saw, you will need to have a thin piece of material to lay between your track and the Parf dogs, as the sole plate will not clear them without a spacer strip.
> 
> ...


I think i could be interested in one of your tops within the next month


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## Stu_2 (6 Apr 2014)

Cool


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## pcb1962 (7 Apr 2014)

I'd be very interested in one of your tops too Stu. I've been looking at this table as an alternative to an MFT/3:
http://www.powertoolsgb.co.uk/cgi-bin/e ... db_pid=282
It seems quite substantial, probably less wobbly than the MFT/3. I was thinking about the possibility of drilling the top, but that steel edge is a bit of a problem, so one of your tops raised on a 50mm framework would be ideal.


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## adidat (7 Apr 2014)

Any chance of some pictures of the keeter/mft 3 setup

sounds very interesting! 

Adidat


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## Benchwayze (7 Apr 2014)

PCB. I am quite impressed overall with my MFT. However it falls over on stability. That's why most users make some form of wooden stand, on lockable castors. 
That folding work table doesn't look as if it will be any different. I don't know that of course, but I'd want to investigate further. I knew about the MFT shortcoming beforehand, so I decided on what to do about it. It's your choice of course, but try and see one first is my advice.


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## Stu_2 (7 Apr 2014)

pcb1962":16r3p2fr said:


> I'd be very interested in one of your tops too Stu. I've been looking at this table as an alternative to an MFT/3:
> http://www.powertoolsgb.co.uk/cgi-bin/e ... db_pid=282
> It seems quite substantial, probably less wobbly than the MFT/3. I was thinking about the possibility of drilling the top, but that steel edge is a bit of a problem, so one of your tops raised on a 50mm framework would be ideal.



Morning mate

I can add support rails to the bottom to raise it by 50mm, which would be the minimum to allow you to use rail clamps as general table clamps. However, I've been adding support rails which raise the table by 58mm (55mm rail + 3mm rubber for anti-slip).

The table you've linked to is 1100x700, so the standard 1220x600 top would be ok. I think that angled legs would help to add stability. However, that table is over-priced in my opinion. I use *these* 1220x600 folding tables by LifeTime. The table is actually a lot more sturdy than it looks in the pics, and I've been happy with stability, although it obviously isn't going to be rock solid. I would like to use the bigger 150 table, but I'm limited on space, and the 120 is a perfect fit for me.

I can see you're in Surrey, so you're more than welcome to come and have a look at my setup and check it out for yourself. I'll also post-up some pics later today.


Cheers
Stu


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## Stu_2 (7 Apr 2014)

adidat":39vt453k said:


> Any chance of some pictures of the keeter/mft 3 setup
> 
> sounds very interesting!
> 
> Adidat


Morning Adidat

I'll give my mate a shout and get some pics for you, and post them later today.

Cheers
Stu


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## Skeety (7 Apr 2014)

Hi,

Here is a pic of the MFT on the Keter:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... e87a5b6fc4

Think Stu_2 may have some better ones.

Jon.


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## marcros (7 Apr 2014)

i would be interested to see some pics on the lifetime table if possible.


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## Grahamshed (7 Apr 2014)

That looks good Stu.


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## carlb40 (7 Apr 2014)

marcros":2jhgdgto said:


> i would be interested to see some pics on the lifetime table if possible.


Me too


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## Grahamshed (7 Apr 2014)

Me three


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## Stu_2 (7 Apr 2014)

Evening Gents

Rather than posting pics that can't show stability, I'll try and post a quick video. I don't have a camcorder but I do have a GoPro, so I'll give it go now.

John has given me his Keter, so I'll be able to show that as well as the LifeTime table. 

Hopefully this won't take too long, but the GoPro takes excellent quality video, even on it's lower settings, so it may take a while to upload.

Cheers
Stu


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## Stu_2 (8 Apr 2014)

Morning All

*Here's* the video. Sorry about the length 

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2014)

Ok Stu... You sold me one. 

That will be ideal for using in my back yard, on nice days. As for space, I have just about as much free floor area as you do! Frustrating at times, and I turn the air blue. You seem to manage it better than me. :lol: 

Sometime in May will be fine. Or when you can fit it in.

Nothing wrong with the video either.


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## Slinger (8 Apr 2014)

Afternoon Stu
Brilliant. Thanks for taking the time & the trouble. I will have one to fit the Keeter when it suits you. I do not know how to PM you, if that is how you want formal confirmation (I am 78 this year & have only just got used to electricity!!!).
Slinger


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## Skeety (8 Apr 2014)

Benchwayze":363avp9k said:


> Ok Stu... You sold me one.
> 
> That will be ideal for using in my back yard, on nice days. As for space, I have just about as much free floor area as you do! Frustrating at times, and I turn the air blue. You seem to manage it better than me. :lol:
> 
> ...



That's exactly where I use mine, honestly don't know how I did without it!  Currently refurbishing and shrinking a 6' Teak garden table to 5' and the MFT on the Keter has been a godsend. I did send 1 bit of table whizzing into Stu_2's garden with the belt sander when it slipped the clamp I hadn't tightened enough.

Jon.


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## Stu_2 (8 Apr 2014)

Benchwayze":8jb1pdgp said:


> ...Nothing wrong with the video either.


Thanks John. It was nearly 3GB, and took over an hour to upload, then gave an error message. :shock: Managed to sort it in the end. 

I’ll give you shout at the end of the month.

Cheers
Stu



Slinger":8jb1pdgp said:


> … (I am 78 this year & have only just got used to electricity!!!).
> Slinger


Quality 

Glad the video helped. I’ll send you a PM & email (assuming your profile allows members to send you a mail) with my phone number. Let me know if you have a problem receiving either.

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2014)

Okeys Stu... Many thanks... Could you put the two runners across-ways. Or are you going to leave that to me? The reason I ask is that I have two Workmates that I will use occasionally to hold the drilled top.

Skeety, 

Just been using the MFT proper with my Domino. Making a garden 'hop-up'. There are slots everywhere but where they need to be. Finally worked it out in the end, but I had to fill in a few spare mortices! Good job it's only a lash-up, meant to be left outside. For serious work, I think I'll do a sketch-up! My own fault for using 3 x 2. It was trying to remember how the faces oreiented that caused the problem.  

The Domino isn't exactly 'fall-off-a-log' easy at first. But I think I have it now! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2014)

Slinger":25941v0i said:


> Afternoon Stu
> Brilliant. Thanks for taking the time & the trouble. I will have one to fit the Keeter when it suits you. I do not know how to PM you, if that is how you want formal confirmation (I am 78 this year & have only just got used to electricity!!!).
> Slinger



I got used to it Slinger (Woods?) 

It was shocking when I discovered what it could do! 



'Hookie'


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## Slinger (8 Apr 2014)

Benchwayze

I got used to it Slinger (Woods?) 

Yep, but Wood. Ex-Andrew 53 to 59
Slinger


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2014)

Aye Slinger. '54 - '64. Started at Ganges. Hookie or Hooky Walker.

Don't miss it to be honest. (Except my time in 'Ton Class' sweepers) Miss my youth though. Don't we all? (hammer)


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## Stu_2 (8 Apr 2014)

Benchwayze":592yoegl said:


> Okeys Stu... Many thanks... Could you put the two runners across-ways. Or are you going to leave that to me? The reason I ask is that I have two Workmates that I will use occasionally to hold the drilled top.


Afternoon John

No worries. I’ll give you a shout to confirm positioning.

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (8 Apr 2014)

Stu_2":14xjt4ts said:


> Benchwayze":14xjt4ts said:
> 
> 
> > Okeys Stu... Many thanks... Could you put the two runners across-ways. Or are you going to leave that to me? The reason I ask is that I have two Workmates that I will use occasionally to hold the drilled top.
> ...



Good Man. Many Thanks  

John


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## petermillard (8 Apr 2014)

Great thread, and many thanks to Stu_2 for posting the video. I've only ever seen the Keter table in Screwfix trade counters, so good to see one that's been set up properly! Also, I've only seen the Lifetime tables referred to on US forums (fora?) - are they readily available here, or was it a personal import? My wife's just bought a folding table with height-adjustable legs from Amazon that looks very similar.

And just as an aside, with all due respect to the OP and IMHO (MFT 1080 owner for ~10 years) the amount of 'wobbliness' of the tables shown *vastly* exceeds that of the MFT - as you'd expect, perhaps, given the difference in price...


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## No skills (8 Apr 2014)

Hmm.

We use copys of the lifetime 180 tables at work for the site canteens (along with a wooden type as well), when there past best I keep the odd one to use as a bench/cutting table. They dont last long as the legs bend or break with any rough treatment (like dropping on a sheet of ply too hard). Hopefully those branded ones are a bit stronger.

FWIW


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## Stu_2 (10 Apr 2014)

petermillard":2qf91vf4 said:


> I've only seen the Lifetime tables referred to on US forums (fora?) - are they readily available here, or was it a personal import?



Afternoon Peter

I bought a couple from Costco, nearly 3 years ago. I believe they still sell them, but I think they now stock the ones with height adjustable legs. I haven't played with one of those, but my assumption is that they will be a little less sturdy as they have an extra joint in the leg structure. I could be wrong, so I'll have a look next time I'm in there.

Cheers
Stu


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## Stu_2 (10 Apr 2014)

No skills":154qe2qg said:


> Hmm.
> 
> We use copys of the lifetime 180 tables at work for the site canteens (along with a wooden type as well), when there past best I keep the odd one to use as a bench/cutting table. They dont last long as the legs bend or break with any rough treatment (like dropping on a sheet of ply too hard). Hopefully those branded ones are a bit stronger.
> 
> FWIW


Afternoon No Skills

Mine are the genuine LifeTime ones, and have stood-up to a fair amount of being bashed around, over nearly 3 years, and are still in good order. I didn't realise until recently that they carry a 10 year warranty, although I'm unsure whether or not that covers wear and tear from heavy use. However, pretty certain Costco would honour that regardless.

Cheers
Stu


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## Stu_2 (10 Apr 2014)

Evening All

Had a few questions about shipping the table tops, and finally got around to sorting out a sensible solution. As it turned out, it was the opposite of what I had first assumed. Carriage was easy, but packaging materials were a pain, unless you're buying stuff in quantities of thousands  

Shipping and packaging should be £15 for the majority of mainland Britain, subject to the usual Highlands and Islands exclusions, which I can confirm individually. I plan to use City Link's Next Day service, as they are a reputable carrier. Each board will be packaged using plastic corner protectors, bubble wrap and an outer plastic wrapping. Breakdown is roughly £12 shipping and £3 packaging.

Collection from Slough is more than welcome if you're local enough. I do tend to get out to Marlow and High Wycombe a fair bit, too, if that helps.

Cheers
Stu


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## petermillard (10 Apr 2014)

Stu_2":3hmafbwf said:


> Afternoon Peter
> I bought a couple from Costco, nearly 3 years ago. I believe they still sell them, but I think they now stock the ones with height adjustable legs...


Stu, thanks for clarifying - I had no idea that Costco were a 'thing' here - always assumed they were US only! They have the height-adjustable tables on their website, if anyone's interested:-

http://www.costco.co.uk/view/product/uk ... 3.3/142137

As an aside, there's also a Keter folding worktable that's height-adjustable, the Keter EX; again, if anyone's interested:-

http://www.keter.com/products/folding-work-table-2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ketec-FOLDING-W ... ding+bench

Different basic height to the Screwfix version, unfortunately, but it comes with '4#holding clamps' instead of a pair of one-handed clamps which might be a bit more versatile.

Anyway, thanks again for all the info and vids.

Cheers, Pete


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## pcb1962 (10 Apr 2014)

Hi Stu,
I would definitely like to order one from you. Will you be able to do custom sizes? My outdoor bench (2 Draper trestles and an Ikea coffee table top  ) is 1120 x 700 so an extra row of holes on the long side would make better use of the available space. I think you mentioned earlier you would need some pins made up to do bigger sizes, I can machine those for you if you send me a drawing of what you need, alternatively could you not use the long Parf dogs upside down to align the template with the already drilled part?
Cheers, Peter


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## Stu_2 (11 Apr 2014)

pcb1962":vhkj2ujd said:


> Hi Stu,
> I would definitely like to order one from you. Will you be able to do custom sizes? My outdoor bench (2 Draper trestles and an Ikea coffee table top  ) is 1120 x 700 so an extra row of holes on the long side would make better use of the available space. I think you mentioned earlier you would need some pins made up to do bigger sizes, I can machine those for you if you send me a drawing of what you need, alternatively could you not use the long Parf dogs upside down to align the template with the already drilled part?
> Cheers, Peter


Afternoon Peter

You have a PM 

Cheers
Stu


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## Stu_2 (12 Apr 2014)

Afternoon All

Thanks to those who have sent a PM. I've now responded to everyone and have started making the tops and various supports 

Just wanted to post an update regarding the Keter workbench which I had included in my earlier video. I spoke to Keter yesterday. Rather disappointingly they have confirmed that they are unable to provide any spare parts, including the proprietary clamps, for either the original bench, or the newer 'EX' version (see Peter's earlier post in this thread). They were also unsure about the warranty period, and were going to call back, but didn't. A real shame, as the idea is a great one, let down by a non-existent level support.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Stu


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## Skeety (12 Apr 2014)

Stu_2":2ygfuyel said:


> Afternoon All
> 
> Thanks to those who have sent a PM. I've now responded to everyone and have started making the tops and various supports
> 
> ...



Agreed, they have some brilliant products but very much under supported in the UK.

If my original clamps were to fail we could router 2 more clamping into the front rail and secure to the underside of the Keter tabletop or just drill a couple of holes and use MFT clamps.

Jon.


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## No skills (12 Apr 2014)

Seeing as this is all the rage on here at the moment, have any of you considered building a bench like Ron paulks?

He has a few variations, might be of interest to you MFT'ing folks.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... +workbench

FWIW


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## Benchwayze (12 Apr 2014)

Ron Paulk's bench is as big as my workshop! :mrgreen:


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## Slinger (25 Apr 2014)

Stu
Many thanks for the 'table top'. Just what I wanted & very well made.
Slinger.


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## Stu_2 (25 Apr 2014)

Slinger":3ufrgef4 said:


> Stu
> Many thanks for the 'table top'. Just what I wanted & very well made.
> Slinger.


Thanks Ray

Glad you like it. 

Cheers
Stu


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## divein (4 Aug 2014)

I know this is an old thread but has anyone tried the mft or equivalent with a B&d 625 workmate? I presume that there would be stability issues with the overhang.


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## marcros (4 Aug 2014)

not as such. I did look at the option though, and I think that if you were to make some supporting bearers then it would work. If I had a tracksaw, my plan was to use the top and a workmate.


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## divein (4 Aug 2014)

Thanks for your comment. I was considering a table saw but as I already have the tracksaw and a 40 year old workmate this could be the better option for now as I am 'between' houses.


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## marcros (4 Aug 2014)

i think that fully open, the workmate must have a top size of 2ft x 1ft, so the overhang isnt huge. if it is a bit unstable, you can always add some support battons underneath.


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## Mike Vastano (13 Aug 2014)

Hi Stuart

What do you think postage would be on this?

Mike


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## Stu_2 (13 Aug 2014)

Afternoon Mike

P&P is £15 to most mainland postcodes, excluding Highlands & Islands etc. 

Cheers
Stu


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## carlb40 (13 Aug 2014)

Stu_2":18rh5zi1 said:


> Afternoon Mike
> 
> P&P is £15 to most mainland postcodes, excluding Highlands & Islands etc.
> 
> ...


I haven't forgotten about it, i still want one but i'm currently saving for a new car. So belts have been tightened for now, so no new toys yet


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## Stu_2 (13 Aug 2014)

carlb40":3quvroz6 said:


> I haven't forgotten about it, i still want one but i'm currently saving for a new car. So belts have been tightened for now, so no new toys yet


No worries, whenever you're ready.


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## Gonzo1969 (6 Oct 2014)

Hi Stu_2

I'm after one of your table tops for the Ketter. If you are still doing them please call on 07905 214823.

Regards, Mark


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## JJ1 (6 Oct 2014)

divein":ppa0995m said:


> I know this is an old thread but has anyone tried the mft or equivalent with a B&d 625 workmate? I presume that there would be stability issues with the overhang.



Only just seen your question and perhaps you've already found your answer, but in case you haven't, I can confirm that the MFT top works perfectly on top of a B & D workmate. The overhang isn't an issue whatsoever and the top takes seconds to secure. I use just two of the Festool screw clamps towards the back of the top. In fact, I find the MFT top so useful I use it all the time on the workmate for pretty much everything.


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## Benchwayze (7 Oct 2014)

JJ1":35flr2wy said:


> divein":35flr2wy said:
> 
> 
> > I know this is an old thread but has anyone tried the mft or equivalent with a B&d 625 workmate? I presume that there would be stability issues with the overhang.
> ...



Hi JJ,

How do you make clearance under the top, for the clamps, and any bench dogs, that you use in the bench holes? Do you use two Workmates, and span them with the top? 
I am not being critical, but unless you use the dog holes in the MFT top, (Or in one of Stu's replicas!) you might as well just clamp a piece of 18mm MDF to a workmate.

I use two cheap Workmate copies. Despite being somewhat flimsy, in comparison to a proper Workmate, they are no less stable than the MFT itself. So on fine days I work in the yard, without moving the MFT from the shop. (I do make use of bench dogs, which means I don't need the MFT fence and protractor.)

John


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## JJ1 (7 Oct 2014)

Benchwayze":3lutaiap said:


> JJ1":3lutaiap said:
> 
> 
> > divein":3lutaiap said:
> ...





Hi John,

I can't remember if the MFT top I use is the 800 or 1080 model. I went for the largest one I could find at the time and it's 116cm in length. My workmate top is about 84cm long so I've got enough overhang at each end to allow me to clamp it to the workmate top. I use a pair of the Festool Screw Clamps, positioned about 6 inches in from the back of the MFT top. That holds the top to the workmate securely enough for most of my needs.
When using the TS55 for cutting sheet goods, I cut with the sheet overhanging the front edge to avoid cutting into the table and I use the Veritas Parf and bench dogs to support the guide rail and sheet I'm cutting. I tend to use the 1400mm rail supported at each end and there's enough overhang at each end to allow me to screw one of the Festool knobs into each of the Parf dogs for greater accuracy. The shorter bench dogs that support the sheet I'm cutting are just dropped through the MFT holes and I don't bother securing those from underneath, which, the workmate top may get in the way for some of the holes anyway. The guide rail is clamped in place easy enough, again, thanks to the MFT top's overhang.
For clamping things on top of the top I use Festool Fixed Clamps. I don't often bother securing those from underneath and the workmate top would prevent it anyway in places, but, I occasionally secure them if there is access from under the particular hole I'm using, just to prevent the clamps lifting the workpiece slightly.

Other than the Veritas dogs mentioned above I don't use any dogs that need to protrude under the MFT top, for planing,etc as I'm in the process of making a proper, more substantial bench for that.

I hope this answers your question. I'm away from a computer now for a while so may not be able to reply for a short while.


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## Benchwayze (7 Oct 2014)

Cheers JJ...

Okay... Now I see. I should have read your post more attentively! :mrgreen:  

I thought of using my workmate like that, but I was worried about the overhang being a problem, so I bought the two cheap 
Work- thingies! It's a golden solution actually, and I get by just fine.

I finally started my own new hand bench. But I shan't be using it until my new shed arrives, and is lined out. That's going to be my new workshop-extension, solely for the lathe and hand tool work. Well that's the plan at least! :lol: 

All the best.. 
John


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## Wizard9999 (8 Oct 2014)

Stu_2

Delighted this thread has come back to the fore, as I only joined UKW recently. Are you still making these tops for others?

Thanks,
Terry.


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## bussy (9 Oct 2014)

Hi Stu
If your still making the tops i would be interested.

Marty


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## Stu_2 (10 Oct 2014)

Morning

Yes Gents, I'm still making these. I'll send you a PM when I get back, this afternoon. 

Cheers
Stu


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## Wizard9999 (19 Oct 2014)

What a gent Stu is!

I ordered a top from him and in the message mentioned I was in two minds about picking it up as I am only about 25 miles from him. He mentioned he would be in my neck of the woods today and so I met him in the car park of a local retail park at lunch time so I could pick my top up. What a great guy, we chatted for nearly an hour and he gave me lots of useful tips, which as a novice woodworker I really appreciated.

Now all I have to do is build the base for it to sit on.

Terry.


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## Gonzo1969 (20 Oct 2014)

"What a gent Stu is!"

I will second that statement. I met Stuart afterward Wizzard did and we spent 3 hours chatting. Hopefully we both learned something new and a nice afternoon was had by all.

Got my new tables to play with to boot.

Thanks Stu. I'll let you know how I've got on after my hols but they look top notch, especially the detail in the rails. A lot of effort for not a lot of money.

Mark G


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## Stu_2 (21 Oct 2014)

Thanks Gents

It was a real pleasure to meet both of you. 

Cheers
Stu


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## BeJay (11 Nov 2014)

Hi Stuart,

I've just joined the forum having found this thread regarding your 'MFT-style' work surface.
Thanks for providing the excellent video demo.

Today, my Son & I have both purchased the Keter Workbench & would be interested in purchasing 2 of these units if at all possible.

Looking forward to your reply.

Thanks & regards,
Bill


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## Stu_2 (12 Nov 2014)

Morning Bill

I'll ping a PM over to you.

Cheers
Stu


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## DiscoStu (12 Nov 2014)

Stu, can you cut down a full size board on a table the size of your standard table?


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## Stu_2 (12 Nov 2014)

Afternoon Stu

Do you mean an 8x4 sheet? If so, no. Table tops are 1220 x 600 mm. The over-hang would be huge. The flex might not be too bad on a sheet of 25mm MDF, but I still wouldn't fancy trying it.  The other problem would be securing the sheet during cutting.

Apologies if I’ve misunderstood the question.

That said, I’ve just cut all the material for an 870 x 800 x 600 chest of drawers using that size table top, with just a track saw, Parf Dogs, and Festool parallel guides, so you can work on some fairly sizable projects with no issues.

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (12 Nov 2014)

I must be lucky. My local sawmill cuts any material you buy, free of charge. (Well, I guess it's worked into their pricing structure!)

This means I can bring home 8 x 2 sheets on the roof-rack, and manage those easily for any further cutting. At the end of the day, if I present the machinist with a drawing, he will cut the whole lot for me, so I don't have any worries about breaking down 8 x 4 sheets. 

I am using two inexpensive workmate type benches with your top Stu. It works fine; except that the bamboo jaws on the benches are showing signs of wear, and bolts keep coming loose. I will probably try to get a used B&D workmate to go with my old one, and use those instead. 

Cheers

John


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## DiscoStu (12 Nov 2014)

I think buying it already cut makes sense. 

Thanks Stu - makes perfect sense.


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## Stu_2 (12 Nov 2014)

Afternoon John, Stu

Yep, I get my 8x4 sheets broken down to roughly what I want when I pick them up. I haven't got a van, so I've no choice. My lad's after a VW Caddy at Easter, but that won't help. I should get him hypnotised into thinking he needs a Transit. 

Cheers
Stu


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## BeJay (14 Nov 2014)

A BIG thankyou to Stu for supplying 2 of the table tops, they arrived this afternoon =D> 

Very quick turnaround and excellent product, we're very impressed.

Thanks very much!

All the best
Bill


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## DiscoStu (14 Nov 2014)

I have bought sheets and had them delivered but I think I will get them cut to size for projects going forward.


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## Stu_2 (15 Nov 2014)

BeJay":3uqezc6q said:


> A BIG thankyou to Stu for supplying 2 of the table tops, they arrived this afternoon =D>
> 
> Very quick turnaround and excellent product, we're very impressed.
> 
> ...


Thanks Bill

Glad you're pleased. 

Cheers
Stu


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## davic (15 Nov 2014)

Bump


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## Gonzo1969 (27 Nov 2014)

Hi Stu,

Used the table for the first time yesterday and it's spot on. I'm trying to thank you officially on here but cannot find out how to do that yet.


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## Stu_2 (27 Nov 2014)

Thanks mate, Much appreciated.


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## mahomo59 (27 Nov 2014)

Hi Stu great video... Only just got round to watching it. I'm up for a table top btw. Please could say what hose you have on your saw? Is 27mm or 36mm I'm after 36 for the kapex from my midi, just don't want to pay festool prices. 

Cheers 

James


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## Stu_2 (28 Nov 2014)

Afternoon James

I'm using the hose that came with my Mirka sander. Rest Express are a big Mirka retailer. Looks like you can get the hose for £34. It comes with an adapter that fits all the Festool stuff perfectly. Here's the link. You'd also probably need one of these adapters to connect the hose to the vac. They work well.

However, I find the hose a bit too stiff, so am think of switching to the Festool hose.  I believe they're a bit more flexible. I'll get to try one tomorrow.

Cheers
Stu


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## chippy1970 (29 Nov 2014)

mahomo59":11znz35j said:


> Hi Stu great video... Only just got round to watching it. I'm up for a table top btw. Please could say what hose you have on your saw? Is 27mm or 36mm I'm after 36 for the kapex from my midi, just don't want to pay festool prices.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> James


I use the 36mm NON anti static hose on my kapex . I got a 3.5m length with a cleaning set in a sys5 for £95 from nuts & bolts . I then cut the hose in half which is long enough to go from the kapex to my midi. You can buy the hose alone for around £60


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## Stu_2 (29 Nov 2014)

Is the Festool hose nice and flexible? I find my Mirka one a bit stuff. It's a good strong hose, but does seem to have a mind of its own sometimes.

I don't use a Festool extractor, so I probably don't need to pay the extra for the the anti-static ones. 

Cheers
Stu


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## Benchwayze (29 Nov 2014)

Stu. 

I find the Festool hose gets in my way. It is not as flexible as I'd like, and it tries to stay looped. But then I am a clumsy so and so at times. 

I think the hose 'gantry' is a requirement to keep it overhead and out of the way. 

HTH


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## Stu_2 (29 Nov 2014)

Thanks John

Looks like I might be no better off changing the hose.

Cheers
Stu


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## chippy1970 (29 Nov 2014)

Stu_2":39cyom0x said:


> Is the Festool hose nice and flexible? I find my Mirka one a bit stuff. It's a good strong hose, but does seem to have a mind of its own sometimes.
> 
> I don't use a Festool extractor, so I probably don't need to pay the extra for the the anti-static ones.
> 
> ...


Yeah I find it very flexible. Get the Non anti static one as I said its much cheaper. The anti static green hose is around £100


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## Stu_2 (29 Nov 2014)

Cool. Cheers. Looks like the non-anti-static one might be a bit more flexible, then. 

Cheers
Stu


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## Gonzo1969 (13 Jan 2015)

Hi guys,

Hope you all had a good break. I have now had a couple of Stu_2's MFT tables that I use for domestic installation work for a few months. I use them on Keter workbenches which are unbelievable bits of kit in their own right. Coupled with Stu's tables it halves the job and doubles the accuracy.

With two tables you can deal with 8x4 sheets of anything coupled with the festool rail saw. Mine are currently set up in a customers garage and it took less than 5 minutes to get ready for work sorting out 3m kitchen worktops.

Stu was kind enough to come out on a job before Christmas to show me the Festool Domino in action. I probably paid more than I should have but I bought it yesterday regardless.

If you want to increase profitability and accuracy you need Stu's tables in your kit!!! (hammer)


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## chippy1970 (13 Jan 2015)

Gonzo1969":2tm7hvq9 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Hope you all had a good break. I have now had a couple of Stu_2's MFT tables that I use for domestic installation work for a few months. I use them on Keter workbenches which are unbelievable bits of kit in their own right. Coupled with Stu's tables it halves the job and doubles the accuracy.
> 
> ...


If you've just bought a domino you might want to get hold of one of these viewtopic.php?t=85852<br/>


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## Richard S (13 Jan 2015)

About time you paid for your adverts


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## pcb1962 (14 Jan 2015)

Richard S":8tvmip9t said:


> About time you paid for your adverts


I would love to have a genuine Domiplate, but as a hobbyist/diyer, over 100 USD form seneca is out of the question so if chippy can provide something similar at a fraction of the price then I think he's providing a great service to this community and that should be encouraged


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## chippy1970 (14 Jan 2015)

pcb1962":zvztwpvi said:


> Richard S":zvztwpvi said:
> 
> 
> > About time you paid for your adverts
> ...


Thanks


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## Richard S (14 Jan 2015)

pcb1962":1m34ln8k said:


> Richard S":1m34ln8k said:
> 
> 
> > About time you paid for your adverts
> ...



I'm sorry you can't afford something you desire, but there are two points here. One is the hijacking of threads ( this isn't the only one ) by someone promoting there own business interests. But also that interest involves a plagiarised product, I assume you don't run your own business, I'm sure you would feel differently if you did and somebody copied your product and undercut you. It's not on, on both counts as much as anything do you want it to open the floodgates for every member here to start hijacking threads to try and promote there own interests, how long before we have people joining to do just that with no interest at all in what the forum stands for. At least Chippy has an interest and contributes elsewhere, this is not a personal dig at him but I don't want to see every thread hijacked in this way. I'm sure in his heart of hearts he knows he's taking a liberty.


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2015)

Richard. 

As it happens, I started this thread, as I was interested in alternative ways of using a Festool track saw, if folk couldn't afford an MFT. I do have an MFT, but I still put forward a few alternatives, both to the table and a Festool track-saw. 

That was taken up by Stu and his idea for a worktop. I suppose it was then that the thread was 'hijacked' (if you can call it that) because Stu was inundated with requests for his worktops. I bought one myself, to use in conjunction with the MFT I have. 

I have not made any complaint about the 'hijacking', because I felt the direction it had taken was a natural evolution if you like, and was helpful to other members. 

HTH

John


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## DiscoStu (14 Jan 2015)

I think it's some way off to call it a plagiarised product. It's a sheet of MDF with holes in it. The MFT is somewhat different. It's a bit like saying nobody should make a table as that is copying what ikea produce. If you use the MFT as an example then couldn't that be said to copy a work bench as that has holes in it and legs and things for holding work in position. 

The MFT really works with the rail on the flip down arm. Where's Stu's wood with holes in it need some part dogs to make it work for square cuts. They aren't made by festool so it's hardly copying the MFT3 table.


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## pcb1962 (14 Jan 2015)

Richard S":344c547x said:


> I'm sorry you can't afford something you desire


I don't need your condolences thank you, I'm not short of a few quid. Doesn't the fact I have a Domino that isn't a tool of my trade tell you that? 



Richard S":344c547x said:


> that interest involves a plagiarised product


Then why aren't you complaining about the existence of this entire thread? Who decides what products are ok to copy and sell here and which aren't?



Richard S":344c547x said:


> I assume you don't run your own business


Wrong, please stop making assumptions about me.



Richard S":344c547x said:


> I'm sure you would feel differently if you did and somebody copied your product and undercut you.


If I could buy a Domiplate from Axminster or Rutlands I would have done so years ago. Fact is I'm not prepared to buy an item from the US that doubles in price once shipping and customs charges are added and whose price therefore ends up out of all proportion to its usefulness to me.


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## Richard S (14 Jan 2015)

pcb1962":3ufswuci said:


> Richard S":3ufswuci said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry you can't afford something you desire
> ...



Still doesn't make it right! My point really refers to the knock off Domiplate and it's makers serial attempts to market it to UKW members by dragging up old threads as well as adding links to current threads like this. If you can't see the harm that this could do to the forum if ignored or even encouraged then you are in danger of getting the forum that you deserve.


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## Random Orbital Bob (14 Jan 2015)

Guys...lets not get too wound up about the issue of copying. Roger does however make a reasonable point about the commercial side though. Now, I know this is very delicate territory because many of you professionals who are dam good at making very useful jig bits n bobs as part of your daily activity provide very useful and insightful advice to the membership of this forum. This is clearly demonstrated by the folks being prepared to stick their necks out and support Chippy. But......on the other hand, the rules (I can hear the cringing starting) about refraining from using the forum to promote goods for sale are also reasonable and valid.

The logic runs something like this:

The forum is not free to operate, neither in terms of money nor efforts. All administration and moderation efforts are donated free of charge. Membership is free of charge. Somehow, those running costs have to be met or the economics of the enterprise stop working. The membership that benefits from all this effort is an advertising guru's wet dream in that it is a highly targeted, narrow niche, special interest group. In other words its folks that just love woodworking. So anybody with a desire to sell something woody will likely find lots of buyers here! I would love to know what it costs to run an advert in say....Furniture & Cabinetmaking magazine?

Let me state that again....*the forum is not free to operate*. I therefore ask the reasonable question.

_*Is it fair *that those who benefit commercially by accessing this niche audience, should be entitled to do so without making a modest contribution to the running costs of the forum?_

I know of no other enterprise on the planet that through its own investment has galvanised a valuable media with a special interest group that doesn't charge a commercial beneficiary for access to that audience?

The premier post advert scheme is a perfectly reasonable and fair solution to that scenario. It levies a modest fee to the advertiser and really highlights their product/service. It's not a rip off. Not even close and I think those folks who use the forum to derive commercial benefit should maybe ruminate on the ethics of their position a little. Remember, the forum is not cost free to operate, yet membership is free!

I'll say no more except perhaps to point out that if commercial activity went completely unchecked, the membership would soon tire of relentless sales pitches and it would spiral out of control. Balance is the key here. The judicious use of signature lines is a helpful place to consider. I suggest folks have a re-read of the commercial rules to re-acquaint themselves with the boundaries.


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## Benchwayze (14 Jan 2015)

I don't know if the domiplate has been patented. if it hasn't anyone can copy, and patent it themselves. AFAIK plagiarism applies only to patented, or copyrighted works. 

There have been plenty of instances where one inventor has patented another's idea, because the originator didn't bother. I believe Edison was a serial 'offender'; Swan and the electric light-bulb being a notable instance. To be fair to Edison, he usually improved on the designs he 'borrowed;.


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## Oliver88 (29 Mar 2015)

Hi Stu i would be interested in a MFT top for the keter if you are still making them , regards Oliver


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## Stu_2 (29 Mar 2015)

Oliver88":3kmng2dv said:


> Hi Stu i would be interested in a MFT top for the keter if you are still making them , regards Oliver


Evening Oliver

I'm afraid I'm unable to make any more for a while, probably until Autumn/Winter, at least.

To be honest, I didn't plan for it to turn into a money-making exercise, and under-estimated demand. In the end, I just couldn't fit it all in, so have had to knock it on the head for now.

If it helps, Nuts & Bolts are currently offering the 1165 x 725 mm Festool top (part # 489396) for £65.50 + delivery, *here*. Their shipping cost was about £3.50 to me (Berkshire), which is cheap for something of that size and weight.

Sorry

Cheers
Stu


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## SteveF (8 Apr 2015)

Benchwayze":ycwcwgqc said:


> I don't know if the domiplate has been patented. if it hasn't anyone can copy, and patent it themselves. AFAIK plagiarism applies only to patented, or copyrighted works.
> 
> There have been plenty of instances where one inventor has patented another's idea, because the originator didn't bother. I believe Edison was a serial 'offender'; Swan and the electric light-bulb being a notable instance. To be fair to Edison, he usually improved on the designs he 'borrowed;.


has anyone made a domiplate?

just asking?

Steve


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## MartinCox (19 Apr 2015)

Stu, are you still producing Mft-like tops? I want to replace the top of my existing workbench which is 1600mm x 1000mm. I'm in Kent so could pick it up. Thanks, Martin


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## Stu_2 (20 Apr 2015)

Sorry, no.


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## oakfield (20 Apr 2015)

Not wanting to tread on any toes here, or be any part of illegal plagiarising activities, but I am planning to get a top cnc'd for my self, maybe I could get more than one done while I'm at it?


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## MartinCox (23 Apr 2015)

That would be great for me. We cannot be far apart so perhaps could discuss. No idea if you can or how to exchange phone numbers? Martin


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## wills-mill (23 Apr 2015)

What about an interlocking edge, like workshop floor mats?


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## MartinCox (24 Apr 2015)

Certainly an idea - I am not sure how stable that might be in practice as I don't think you can have a 'floor' underneath ear supporting as you do with the mats. I was looking at the website of a company in Lewes who say they specialise in CNC in wood including msg. I am sure there are others but it might be worth talking to them to see if there is any advantage in having the standardised floor mat approach or just CNC standard holes and spacing in boards to suit each persons requirements?

I'm happy to talk to the firm to see what the options are and report back on this forum? 

Any idea what thickness of mdf is best? We obviously want it thick to be stable: not too thick so as not to take part dogs; not so thick as to be too heavy for those (probably not me) who want a mobile work table.


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## Benchwayze (24 Apr 2015)

18mm seems to be the norm for the Festool. My 'look-alike' worktop is also 18mm thick. No problems with 'flexing'. 

HTH

John


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## Benchwayze (24 Apr 2015)

I was editing and my post vanished. Lost connection. 
Oh dear! 

Sorry Mods. You can delete this if you wish. :?


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## oakfield (25 Apr 2015)

I am hopefully going to get my top ordered next week. 
I believe it needs to be 18mm or the clamps won't fit and I would do it in moisture resistant MDF. 
I quite fancy building one of these:
http://www.benchworks.be/mftc.html

Let me know what size you want and I will get a price for you. 
I am also working at Mark Cross for the next couple of weeks which I think is fairly close to you.


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## MartinCox (26 Apr 2015)

I'm looking at 1600mm x 1000mm to go on top of my existing work table. The people in Lewes are coming back to me Momday so it would be interesting to compare prices


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## Paddy Roxburgh (26 Apr 2015)

just read the beginning of this thread about saving money on mft by just using the top and parf dogs. Just thought I'd add that you don't need to buy parf dogs, I have an mft top, not the table, which I bought for about £70 and use 20mm plastic electrical conduit which was lying around the workshop. Perfect fit. Cut it to any length you need with hacksaw and file the leading edge. 
Paddy


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## MartinCox (8 May 2015)

Well, I ordered my bespoke MFT worktop from the CNC firm in Ringmer and, 2 days later, it was ready for me to collect. I've now had it in place for a few days and am delighted with it. It has been made as accurately as you would think it - 1600 x 1000 x 18mm with 20mm holes at 96mm centres - could be with a cost of £16 for the mdf and £70 for the cutting. If you do want one made to a size to suit you, then try these guys


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## noddy67 (28 May 2015)

Hi MartinCox,

Just wondering with how you got on with your MFT style top. Did you get it done yourself because you wanted a specific size?

Just noticed that you are also near Tonbridge. I'd love to come over and see it if you're ok with that. Please PM me if so.

Cheers


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## Ram64 (28 May 2015)

If you type in MFT3 top or replacement perforated top in t'ebay, there's a guy selling them for £40 with £10 postage. Looks like they can do custom sizes...and personalize them as well. 

Nigel


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