# Which Scroll Saw



## brianhabby

As a novice looking to buy my first scroll saw, what would you guys recommend. I don't have shed loads of money so price is important.

I wonder about the Scheppach DecoFlex Scroll Saw or the SIP Scrollsaw.

What do you guys think?

regards

Brian


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## Webby

Anybody ....got any recommendations


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## Blister

Hello



> What do you guys think?



Both very low priced / low quality saws 

Best to save up for something better


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## brianhabby

Blister":3hvtyscr said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best to save up for something better
Click to expand...


Such as ...?

regards

Brian


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## Blister

I would say either of these 2

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... prod32495/

or

http://www.hegner.co.uk/Hegner_Multicut_1

either the HM1 ( Fixed speed ) 

or the HM1V ( variable speed )

Yes they are a lot more to buy but if you enjoy the hobby they will both last for years 

Or if you decide its not for you either can be sold for very good ( High ) second hand prices 

If you buy either of the 2 you first mentioned and try and re sell you will get perhaps £20 to £30 

The cheap machines are a nightmare for blade changes and setup ( All very frustrating ) 

As apposed to the quality saws 

Hope you make the wise decisions 

All the best 

Allen :wink:


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## brianhabby

Thanks Allen,

Of the two that I originally linked to I was thinking of the SIP partly because I already have a couple of their tools (table saw & bobbin sander) and am very happy with them.

With the Axi one being three times the price of the SIP, I'll have to re-think the issue.

What do others think?

regards

Brian


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## Gill

brianhabby":1fysvjuk said:


> What do others think?


I think you should heed Allen's advice  .


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## kevin dwyer

the guys are right, cheap fretsaws are nasty and don't cut straight. there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.


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## hawkinob

"there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev."

Hi,
I would look through the various forums and see what others think/say about the Excalibur. I don't have one and don't intend to buy one BUT I do like all that they say they can do.
Whilst the lower priced saws may not be as "comfortable" to use, that was the way I started - put my foot in the water before jumping in - I found I could do all that my, now, Hegner 'lookalike' does albeit I now don't grumble so much nor have to blow the dust away!!!
Good luck and enjoy.
Bob H.


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## Gill

hawkinob":2mjwyjtn said:


> I would look through the various forums and see what others think/say about the Excalibur.


Indeed. The Excalibur promised so much when the brand was resurrected but many American owners are expressing their disappointment with the new machines. It seems the build quality does not match that of earlier machines.


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## brianhabby

kevin dwyer":21j9u8ls said:


> there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.



They are EX-21 and EX-30 both well over £500 on the Axi site but currently in the £185 range. They have steel tables instead of cast iron. One thing I did notice was the blade tilts instead of the table - is this a good thing or a gimmick? Seems to make sense to me.

regards

Brian


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## hawkinob

"One thing I did notice was the blade tilts instead of the table - is this a good thing or a gimmick? Seems to make sense to me."

Hi, 
I reckon that would be a plus - ever tried cutting at 45 degrees, or even 30 degrees, on a tilted table? I have done both and it worked but my heart was in my mouth each time. Also I believe that the Excalibur blade tilts both way, not sure about that but if it does then again well worth having that option. Having said that I still wouldn't buy the Excalibur, rather have a "starter" model. Rather too many complaints about the saw.
Bob H.


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## tinytim1458

Hi Brian i have the earlier SIP scroll saw which is good and still going, you get some vibration from it just had to make a sand box for it to sit on to eliminate the vibration but that is because i have it on a wooden bench which is on a wooden floor so made the vibration ten times worse till i made the sand box. Less vibration if on a concrete floor and if overtop of a leg of the bench you are working on. The new sip one has a plain blade quick change system which makes it easier to change also is a variable speed model. A good machine that does all that i throw at it. 
Saying that though if i had the money i would go for the axminster scroll saw but not the excaliber version as it has had bad press saying that i have not heard anything bad about the 16" version i would go for the Axminster AWFS18 Scrollsaw which is like the Hegnar as it does seem a better machine has quick blade change system and little if any vibration. Would be better if you could get yourself down to your local Axminster shop to try the machines for yourself, that way you can see which machine you prefer before you outlay any money.
Thanks tim


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## brianhabby

Thanks people,

I wonder about the Excalibers. If they are poorly made as has been indicated, I wonder about those that Axi sell on eBay. They say they are returns but that they have been fixed by their engineers. Maybe if the machines have been tweaked on an individual basis they might be alright now - Am I trying to convince my self?

Certainly got more to think about now.

regards

Brian


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## artanddecco

the guys are right, cheap fretsaws are nasty and don't cut straight. there's a couple of axminster excalibers, which are HUGE and on Ebay at the mo. kev.

As a novice Sheppach 405 user, I am curious about the above statement, as I am sure my Fretsaw falls into this category ! I don't find it at all nasty, in fact think its great value for money, but I agree that it does not cut straight, but always thought that this applied to all scroll saws and Bandsaws. Would be most interested to know how this does not happen on a more expensive machine, assuming both use the same blade, the same tension, same speed, same power, same wood. I know that the throat plates can be different, but cannot see how this can make a difference, as the blades do not touch it. Have the more expensive ones got some type of blade guides that I am unaware of !
I can understand that perhaps a more expensive machine has a better system of securing the blade in the lower clamp for easier access, but this will not affect the factor of straight cutting, just curious, have always wondered why people rave about more expensive machines.
John


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## Gill

All scroll saws have a cutting bias towards the right. It's nothing to do with the saws; it's the nature of the blades. Although precision ground blades have a less pronounced tendency to drift to the right, the tendency remains nevertheless.

Why buy a more expensive saw? They are engineered better, they are more durable, they are heavier (which means less vibration), they have quicker blade changing, they have more user-friendly tensioning systems, they have a greater depth of cut and they have better customer support. All in all, they make the scrolling experience more enjoyable. I suppose there's also a cachet about coming onto a forum like this and declaring ownership of a Hegner rather than a Pro-line.

In the past I have advocated that new scrollers should consider how much use they will get out of their new saw before it needs to be replaced. If you search back through the forum you will see calculations that you could buy ten new SIP saws for the price of one comparable Hegner and I suggested that the purchase of an SIP made economic sense. That was in the days when SIP saws were manufactured to a decent standard. Alas, their standards seem to have slipped. It appears that new scrollers now risk having their enthusiasm for scrolling quashed by poor quality 'entry-level' saws and I have revised my opinion; it is wiser to acquire a good saw from the outset to avoid this disappointment.


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## artanddecco

Thats a good sensible reply Gill, I would love now to have the opportunity to see the improvement in blade changing in the Hegner to my Sheppach, as its only Blade Changing so far that bugs me. Its too fiddly in the lower blade holder, but no problem on the upper. Fortunately, I dont need to change it too often. Another thing is having to unscrew the lower shield in order to vacuum out the sawdust that collects underneath. Not user friendly enough.
John


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## Chippygeoff

Hi artanddecco.

I have been reading the post on this thread with much interest. I feel really sorry for people taking up scroll saw work today, although there are many scroll saws out there on the market most of them or 99% of them are Chiwanese. Gill has given very sound advice on this subject and everyone who reads what she has written should take note. I am going to be completely honest here and say that I am really fed up with the state of the scroll saw market. Many of the machines available from companies like draper, Jet, Poolewood, Charnwood, record power and many many more are one and the same machine. I was at hospital yesterday and in the waiting room I was looking at a "spot the difference," on two pictures in a magazine and I was reminded when I last looked at scroll saws and how many of them looked exactly the same but some had a different knob or the colour was changed. many of them are coming out of the same Chiwanese factory. They have no idea what scroll sawing is about let alone put a machine together.

As Many know i returned my excalibur some time ago as Doddy has from the forum. I can easily see how people are pleased with then if they have upgraded from a cheap and nasty import. The excalibur's seem great but the greatness wears off. I am sometimes using my saws 14 hours a day and the excalibur cant cope with that, it is very poorly made, the material its made from is rubbish and how they have the nerve to charge over £500 is nobodies business. Doody and I are both ordering Hegner HM2-SVs. They are the finest saws in the world, everything about them is just perfect and they are made from aircraft quality materials. They are very expensive but mine will still be going strong long after I have departed this world.

By God I am glad I got that off my chest.


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## brianhabby

But if you haven't got over £500 to spend on a Hegner...?

regards

Brian


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## Gill

Oh, come on, Brian! We've all robbed at least two banks in our time in order to fund our hobby.







Or is that just me?


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## Chippygeoff

The Hegner Doddy and I are getting are £745 each plus the foot switch, we robbed the bank together. Seriously. Its what you want out of a machine, if you are only going to use it now and again then fine, get a chiwanese import, it will do what you want to do, in a fashion, if you can put up with poor blade clamps that are time consuming to use and then the blade keeps coming out. Then there is the problem if you go over half speed how do you stop the vibration and it goes on and on.

I use my saws to earn a living. Everything I make has to be perfect because i am selling what I make. I want a quick blade change system, I want my saw to be free of vibration. I want to be able to make jig saws where the pieces slide out both ways and not just one way. Everything I want from a scroll saw is to be found in the Hegner and over a short period of time it will pay for itself. On top of that I have peace of mind that it is probably never going to let me down despite using it for many hours during the course of a days work and six days a week.


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## hawkinob

Hi,
I'm sorry that I don't agree that "price is right", I have a Hegner "lookalike" some five years or so of ownership and have no complaints (and seen none on the forums) - I've used a Hegner (for a day at a display). My opinion is that my "lookalike" is equal to the original. Also my Ford Focus (car) will get me to where I want to go and, whilst I might like to afford a Rolls, I arrive quite comfortably in my Ford.

With the Excalibur, a rhyme we used to say to the children I reckon is apt -
There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead
When she was good
She was very very good
When she was bad
She was horrid.

Bob H.


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## dickybirdclocks

May upset some of you fine chaps but the reason i came on is i just purchased a scroll saw - Hegner 2S variable speed got it for the princely sum of £100 . Looks brand new and unused although instruction manuals have a 1997 date ,chap i got it from had bought it for £140 from the chap who bought originally both supposedly never used it . Has plastic bag unopened containing vac pipe assembly and another bag has 2 clamps a spanner and an allen key a couple of screws and a circular plate . Machine operates ok and variable speed works but i understand upper and lower clamps should be present on machine .these appear to be missing . Am i ok with just the spare set in plastic bag or do i need to order another pair (Must be a reason for including spares) also have a red wallet with a multitude of blades . I also got a price list from 1997 when i assume this machine was originally purchased . boy have prices shot up .


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## hawkinob

Jealous is all I can say.


"but i understand upper and lower clamps should be present on machine"
Blade clamps I imagine you are referring to? If so, yes they are pretty important, use the spares, maybe they aren't spares but the originals just in a bag! Plenty of post on this forum about quick release top clamp. There is a website where you can download a Hegner manual, if you don't have one - Google Hegner manual (I think the site belongs to Advanced Machinery).

Good luck (although you don't seem to need much more!).
Bob H.


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## dickybirdclocks

I think blade clamps are supposed spares as they are still in a sealed stapled plastic bag - sure i read somewhere that you are supplied with spares but that the machine comes with blade clamps in place also - These alas are missing . Will get some spares anyway along with some more blades - was considering the blades from USA on ebay 6 dz Flying Dutchman reverse cut for approx £13 + just under £4 p&p has anyone had any experience of these blades and sellers or experienced any probs with the import aspect ? Could be problematic if customs demands £20 in tax etc.The blades are reccomended elsewhere on the net , what type of blades are advisable to have in my collection bearing in mind unsure at the moment what usage i will give the recent arrival Hegner .Got a Hegner operator manual with saw along with various other spares and add ons .


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## stevebuk

dickybirdclocks":3eonedr9 said:


> Will get some spares anyway along with some more blades - was considering the blades from USA on ebay 6 dz Flying Dutchman reverse cut for approx £13 + just under £4 p&p has anyone had any experience of these blades and sellers or experienced any probs with the import aspect ?.



this seller is Mikes Workshop, he visits us here from time to time and i buy my Flying Dutchmen blades through him, excellent blades and no imort problems. Visit his site also: http://www.mikesworkshop.com/blades.htm


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## Harbo

Yes I've bought from him - no extra charges and excellent blades.

Rod


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## chrispuzzle

artanddecco":j476xzog said:


> I can understand that perhaps a more expensive machine has a better system of securing the blade in the lower clamp for easier access, but this will not affect the factor of straight cutting, just curious, have always wondered why people rave about more expensive machines.
> John



All saws cut on a bias because the blades have a natural bias due to the way they are produced. You have to learn to compensate. However, if the saw has a lot of vibration and the arms are not perfectly in alignment it will make it more difficult to compensate.

More expensive machines are likely to have a better build quality. These are some of the features I would want to find, in order to justify paying extra:

1) Durability - the machine can be used continuously day after day, as a trade machine should
2) Low vibration - heavy build with thick, solid tables, preferably in cast iron rather than aluminium
3) Dead flat table
4) Well calibrated and precisely controlled tilt mechanism
5) Availability of spares and servicing
6) Powerful, smooth motor which will aid control when you cut. Pay attention to the motor specs when comparing saws as well as the rest of it.

Sometimes the difference between a cheap saw and an expensive one may be mostly in the amount of punishment it can take, not in the quality of work you can produce with it. Like many power tools, the cheap ones can be fine for occasional work, not so good if you need to use them every day or for long periods at a time.


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## hawkinob

"1) Durability - the machine can be used continuously day after day, as a trade machine should"

I didn't buy a scroll saw as a "trade" machine, I wonder how many people have? Mine is for a hobby. How would the warranty view that (trade)?
Bob H.


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## titchard

Hi. I have one of the SIP scroll saws. It works perfectly fine for me. it cost me £70 pound from cpc and has lasted me about 2 years so far. It cuts straight lines very well I have used it for alot of compound work without any problems. The only problems I have ever had with it was with the blades but now i have some olson and some flying dutchman blades all is good.


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## chrispuzzle

hawkinob":2b9puywd said:


> "1) Durability - the machine can be used continuously day after day, as a trade machine should"
> 
> I didn't buy a scroll saw as a "trade" machine, I wonder how many people have? Mine is for a hobby. How would the warranty view that (trade)?
> Bob H.



Mine was bought for a hobby too. But if your hobby is something you do for hours at a time, or day after day, as you might if it was your trade, then you need a more rugged build quality than if you only use the tool occasionally when you have the need or feel the urge.

I don't know of any warranty issue around a decription like "trade" or "hobby" although Axminster does rate the equipment they sale as "trade" or "hobby".


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## roystrutt

Has anybody views on the diamond please


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## daibeer

Hi all,
Im a newbie to scroll saw and to the forum and have found this thread particularly useful. I bought as a tester an SIP scrollsaw ( I didnt know any better) and found the saw to be OK except for the blade change. You have to insert the end pece into a plastic tool and then tighten it and do the same for the other end, which is ok unless you have threaded your blade into a piece of wood. Extremely difficult and time consuming. So here it is : I have about £200.00 to spend on another saw. I really need a quick change system as the scroll saw is used only for in wood cutting. I dont mind buying off ebay but I need a name of a machine. Hope I didnt go on too much and look forward to a reply.
Cheers
Dave


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## Blister

daibeer":2hyoidtr said:


> Hi all,
> Im a newbie to scroll saw and to the forum and have found this thread particularly useful. I bought as a tester an SIP scrollsaw ( I didnt know any better) and found the saw to be OK except for the blade change. You have to insert the end pece into a plastic tool and then tighten it and do the same for the other end, which is ok unless you have threaded your blade into a piece of wood. Extremely difficult and time consuming. So here it is : I have about £200.00 to spend on another saw. I really need a quick change system as the scroll saw is used only for in wood cutting. I dont mind buying off ebay but I need a name of a machine. Hope I didnt go on too much and look forward to a reply.
> Cheers
> Dave



Hi

I have a mint condition Hegner for sale 

click on the link below 

for-sale-hegner-multicut-1-t60198.html

Hegner ARE the best saws on the market :mrgreen:


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## daibeer

Hi Blister
Sorry if this has been posted twice. I would love to buy it if thats OK with you. How do you want paying, Paypal - Cheque?
Cheers
Dave


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## Blister

daibeer":2hz8oyoj said:


> Hi Blister
> Sorry if this has been posted twice. I would love to buy it if thats OK with you. How do you want paying, Paypal - Cheque?
> Cheers
> Dave




I have sent you a email and a PM :wink:


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## daibeer

Hi Blister
I have returned a PM. Hope this is OK>
Cheers
Dave


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## Blister

reply sent


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## Lodds

Sorry to revive an old post, but...

:? :? :? 

I'm in the market for a new scroll saw I currently have an old Rexon ss16-A which appears all but useless. I don't know whether to go for the Hegner 1 or 2, or indeed the Axminster AWFS18. There is a substantial cost difference between the 2 Hegners and I wonder whether the cost difference for me would be justified, as I am a newbie and want to see if scrolling is something I can get into.
The AWFS18 looks like it would do everything I would need it to and at a price of the Hegner1 but the same facilities and more of the Hegner2.
For me quick blade changing is very important, I don't know if any of these machine are quick on the blade changing. How long does it take to change a blade on a typical machine as I intend to do a lot of internal scrolling.

Appreciate your thoughts on this matter and as I said sorry to revive an old post.

Tony


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## Blister

Lodds":3pg1nmpp said:


> Sorry to revive an old post, but...
> 
> :? :? :?
> 
> I'm in the market for a new scroll saw I currently have an old Rexon ss16-A which appears all but useless. I don't know whether to go for the Hegner 1 or 2, or indeed the Axminster AWFS18. There is a substantial cost difference between the 2 Hegners and I wonder whether the cost difference for me would be justified, as I am a newbie and want to see if scrolling is something I can get into.
> The AWFS18 looks like it would do everything I would need it to and at a price of the Hegner1 but the same facilities and more of the Hegner2.
> For me quick blade changing is very important, I don't know if any of these machine are quick on the blade changing. How long does it take to change a blade on a typical machine as I intend to do a lot of internal scrolling.
> 
> Appreciate your thoughts on this matter and as I said sorry to revive an old post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tony




Tony

this is a Axminster AWFS18 used at a good price http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/ ... llsaw.html


and one on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Axminster-AWS ... 416725f8a1


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## hawkinob

Hi Tony,
I don't have the Axminster AWFS18 but one that is sold here in OZ and like the AWFS18 looks to be an Hegner clone. I have used both the Hegner and of course my own and, in my opinion (I don't claim to a scrollsaw expert!!!!) it is hard to tell the difference using them. Plenty of comments on both the original and the clone on this and other wood forums.
I did buy the Hegner "quick release clamp", not cheap but worth it - it is "tool less" in operation, I imagine that is why it is called "quick release".
Good luck.
Bob H.


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## stevebuk

should you need any of the quick clamps i have a pair i can sell as i sent back my AWFS18..


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## brianhabby

stevebuk":161o98nc said:


> should you need any of the quick clamps i have a pair i can sell as i sent back my AWFS18..



Mmmm - Interesting, can I ask why you sent it back please?

regards

Brian


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## stevebuk

brianhabby":1eitwx87 said:


> stevebuk":1eitwx87 said:
> 
> 
> 
> should you need any of the quick clamps i have a pair i can sell as i sent back my AWFS18..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mmmm - Interesting, can I ask why you sent it back please?
> 
> regards
> 
> Brian
Click to expand...



hi Brian
i just couldn't get on with it at all, even with the quick blades clamp fitted its not quick to change the blade, and especially the bottom clamp is a complete PITA, it just falls out due to lack of being held by anything substantial unlike the hegner . I also didn't like the plastic screw fitting from the air pipe that tightened into a brass fitting that was hidden behind the on/off switch which you had to remove in order to get the spanner to fit on.
i dont want to pull down the saw as it cut really nice, not too much thought went into the build i dont think and the table is a little small i fear, i am pleased i got my delta back working ( or rather a mate did) as i think it knocks socks off the axminster.

just my opinion..


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## Blister

wsmith0896":35y1clyz said:


> I have an Excalibur 30 and it is the best saw I have ever purchased. Yes the upfront cost is huge but in the end you will not find a better saw. Easy and simple balde changing, the head tilts instead of the table, and it is very heavy so the vibration is very little if any at all.




You may be lucky to have a USA built saw

In the UK we get low quality made in China / Taiwan copy


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## mac1012

Hegner have got an offer on at moment 20% off their range, the base model is list price 390 so you would save just under 80 making the price around 315 -320 which is a good price and free delivery 

Mark


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