# Making a casement window (single glazed)



## ColeyS1

I thought I'd share the process I go through of making a casement window. It's a fairly straightforward design, but might be of interest to someone who hasn't made one before. 
I've tried to make the process seem as logical as possible, so hopefully might be easy to follow- fingers crossed !
I wouldn't necessarily do the stages in this order, but this, I think, should be the easier way for somebody considering making there first window. 

This is the windows I'm making 





The joy of this job, is all the frame timbers are exactly the same size - 94x57mm. 

First thing to do is make a cutting list so you can order timber and then cut out your pieces. These are the names of the window parts.





I usually allow around 100mm extra for length, so with this in mind, make a list of each part you require. As an example I've made a cutting list for the top window in the pic. 





The windows only having single glazing, so only needs to be ex 2 inch thick.

Cut out and label the parts for your windows.





Top and tail, and thickness the pieces to size.




I've put the frame parts on the left pile to make finding them for machining easier.

Coley


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## ColeyS1

The next stage is to take a rebate out of the frame pieces for the sash to sit in.
A spindle moulder will make light work of this- Equally a router would do exactly the same, albeit a bit slower. 
With the rebate block in, set the depth of cut to 13mm




Next set the height of the rebate. The sash is 45mm thick and ideally a 1.5-2mm gap to allow for a draughtstrip is good. Holding a stile then measuring 1.5-2mm is easy enough to set. 




Apologies in advance for saying a few obvious things- I wanted to be thorough and not miss out any steps.
If you've got any rough/damaged bits, nows a good time to lose them when you smash the rebate out.








Push through all the pieces. The mullions will have to be double sided, other than that, push the head, cill and jambs through the same.
You might end up with a pile of wood that looks something like this.




Next thing to do is form the cill. In this instance the easiest way is to tilt the rebate block over to 9 degrees. 




You could achieve the same by tilting a table saw, although a spindle will give a nicer finish. Generally windows have a cill projection, so this is quite rare that I make one with a flush cill.
Now the angles set and locked in place, it's time to set the depth.




I like to keep a 12mm piece of mdf nearby as it's a good start for setting the depth. Just get the top of the rebate cutter flush with the mdf.
Now that's done set the height.




Probably the easiest way is to take the cill timber and wind the block up, until the scriber touches the rebate you've already made. 
Roller feed, turn on job done. 




Needless to say, check everything's tight and the fence clears before considering starting the machine !

Coley


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## ColeyS1

That's the machining stage done for now. Next is to mark out the parts ready for mortice and tenoning together.
Take a cill or a head and mark the overall width.








From that line, mark the size you have left, now you've machined a rebate. 
In this instance it'll be 57 minus 13mm rebate so 44mm.




I'm struggling how to explain it, but hope that makes sense. So mark 44mm in from each end. Measure the gap between the new lines, then subtract the width of two of these ......




Divide that number by 3, then mark out the mullions. I'm hoping this pic might explain what we're marking out.




Now you've got these lines on one piece of wood transfer the lines onto its mate so you've got a cill and head paired together.




To keep things straightforward, I'd square these lines right the way around each piece of timber. When it comes to making the mortice in the head and cill, you'll attack it from both sides.

I wish I could explain this stage clearer. This is why i quite often post pictures instead of writing replies- I struggle lol 

Coley


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## mikefab

Great thread!
Thanks Coley I will be following this with interest. I have a strange fascination with windows!!


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## ColeyS1

Onto making the mortices. Wind the chisel so it lines up with the rebate.




Set your chisel to just over half the depth, then mortice from the rebate side




I haven't bothered with face side/face edge marks. So longs you keep the same bit against the fence each time, then it shouldn't matter. 
Turn it over and mortice from the other side.




You'll notice in the pics that I haven't morticed to the lines on the outside. The horns will be cut off later, so morticing accurately to the outside lines isn't necessary.
If alls gone to plan, you'll have holes something like this.





Next stage is to form your tenons.


Coley


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## ColeyS1

I'd say the marking out is the most challenging, it gets easier once this is out of the way.
The easiest way to mark you tenons is to take a jamb and mark the overall height on it. Then take your head/cill and trace the shoulder lines.




This might seem a bit crude but it's fairly foolproof !!
One thing to bare in mind, is you need to mark your jambs out as a pair !!!!!!!!!!!!




If you don't, you'll end up with two left/right hand jambs- its easily done, ask me how I know !! [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]
If you're cutting them by hand you just need to set your mortice gauge and cut to the lines.
When it comes to using a tenoner, I first set the tenon with square shoulders to test fit.




Once happy with that, adjust the stepped shoulder








Having a tenoner spin this way means all spindling moulds, rebates etc, can be done before forming the tenons.
If you've cut the tenons by hand then this is irrelevant. 
The tenoner can only do square shoulders (easily anyway) so they still need the 9 degree angle cutting on them.
This is a fairly easy way of marking the line required.




Simply set the compasses to the gap on the square side.




Might be cheating, but I find it easiest to do the 9 degree cut on the chopsaw.




Set the chopsaw to trenching, tip to 9 degrees and the rest is history  if the calculations are right you'll end up with something like-





Coley


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## ColeyS1

Tenons and mortices are done, now time to add the extra mouldings. 




Mortar grooves on outer timbers (jambs head and cill)


Drip groove on cill





Drip groove in rebates where opening sash is. (Don't do the cill, just uprights and head !)




I like to put the rebate drip groove so it misses the hinge





The only other mould, is a small splay on the uprights. Either set this up on a spare piece of timber, or perhaps the end of the head or cill









Splays on uprights done





Coley


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## Fitzroy

Wish you done this a few months back. My windows ended up very similar in construction but took way longer to figure out than if I'd had this post to reference. It's great to see how a professional does it, especially like the level of detail you're providing. Thanks!

Fitz.


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## ColeyS1

mikefab":2uie3rmk said:


> Great thread!
> Thanks Coley I will be following this with interest. I have a strange fascination with windows!!


Cheers Mike. 

Coley


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## ColeyS1

Fitzroy":2oz3tw22 said:


> Wish you done this a few months back. My windows ended up very similar in construction but took way longer to figure out than if I'd had this post to reference. It's great to see how a professional does it, especially like the level of detail you're providing. Thanks!
> 
> Fitz.


Thanks Fitz. I appreciate the comment. I was quite surprised how much work goes into making a fairly basic window. 
I thought if I posted lots of pics on a single glazed version, I could skip various parts on perhaps double glazed or sliding sashes. 
I'm just looking at getting it all down on paper first. I'll try and sort out the dodgy image rotations, once it's complete. 

Cheers 



Coley


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## ColeyS1

Now most of the spindling works finished it's time to start fitting the joints together. If alls gone to plan your tenon should be too wide for the mortices. Cut these back so they're flush with the rebates.












Do the same to the cill end and chisel or saw off the 9 degree cill cut.




Test the joints fit.




Once you've got all your uprights inserted in a head or a cill, you can 'bone' them through by eye to check they're all in line. 




If you've cut the cill angle end with a chopsaw, it's something that shouldn't need any tinkering. If not adjust ease the shoulders to suit.
All the joints are now individually fitted and labeled where necessary, chuck it all together and check the overall dimensions.




Chuck it all together and check the over dimensions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any errors in marking out, should now be obvious. Check the sizes and rescue/remake any parts that need redoing- Better to notice now, then when everything's stuck together ! 
Check it, go on. Measure twice, remake if necessary [WINKING FACE]
On your opening sash, it'd be nice to some draught proofing. 




I use aquamac 63 on window frames. The grooves for the draughtstrip is machined using a router- no more earth trembling machines lol.








Set the depth just shy of the rebate depth (around 11.5mm deepish)




You'll notice in the pic the block of wood/packing fixed to the base of the router. It's the same thickness as the rebate (13mm) having this makes it almost impossible to accidently tip the router.




That's all the machining done now !! 
Sand up all your inside edges 








Drill some holes in the head and cill for screwing the joints together.
5mm screw means a 5.5mm hole




I've found somewhere around 30mm screwing into the timber usually gives a good enough fixing.




Test screw the frame together.




The joints should now be nice and tight and the window frame nice and flat. A small bit of twist isn't the end of the world, just be sure to get the jambs plumb when you fix it [WINKING FACE]

Coley


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## ColeyS1

Once you're happy with how everything fits, next step is gluing It up.
Back in the day it was always cascamite for hardwoods and pva for softwood. The reality is, even if the glue failed the screws should hold everything together. 
I use cascamite just because it's stood the test of time.








Put glue inside the mortice (come in from both sides if the glue brush won't reach) and also glue the area where the tenon shoulders fit.




Gluing both mortice and tenon should mean that everything gets a good covering of glue.
I tend to have a few bearers on my bench and then screw the frame together flat on the bench.




Now everything's screwed up tight, check the diagonals for square.




If necessary stick a clamp/temporary batten across the corner until the measurements are the same.




Clean off any excess glue with a sharp chisel or a rag




This is gonna be painted so living a glue residue won't be an issue




If you're gonna have a varnished/stained window, you'll need to spend alot of time scraping/wiping away all traces of glue. It's boring, but unfortunately necessary ! 

Best to leave the frame overnight now for the glue to cure.
Once the glues dried you can start cleaning up the frame.

Chop of the horns (easiest to cut from both sides)






Then tidy up the corners for the draughtstrip. For years I just used a chisel




But a multimaster type tool makes the job much quicker








Plane/smooth the inside and outside of the frame. 




Generally I'll just belt sand with 100 grit followed by orbital sanding 120 grit. 
Finally just sand off ALL sharp edges with a piece of sandpaper.

By this point you should end up with a finished frame !! Have a beer or a brew to celebrate, relax and put your feet up!!

Next stage is making the sashes/casements  

Coley


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## Eric The Viking

Thanks Coley. 

I've only done a couple of small windows, but I enjoyed the process, and that's a great guide you've posted. 

I don't have a spindle, nor a tenoner, and at the time I did the first one, no p/t either, so the moulding was done on the router table. I know I could have morticed with the router too, but I bought a small chisel morticer, and I really like it for ease of setup, etc.

I've learned quite a bit from your guide, which I'll take into the next time


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## AndyT

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to explain all this in detail.
I don't think I will ever need to make a window, but I do like to understand and appreciate how a professional joiner does.


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## custard

Top work Coley. Invaluable for joiners, interesting for non joiners, everyone's a winner!

=D>


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## pollys13

WOW, amazing Coley, really interesting to learn how is done for this design.
Thanks loads.


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## ColeyS1

Eric The Viking":2z7e1z2q said:


> Thanks Coley.
> 
> I've only done a couple of small windows, but I enjoyed the process, and that's a great guide you've posted.
> 
> I don't have a spindle, nor a tenoner, and at the time I did the first one, no p/t either, so the moulding was done on the router table. I know I could have morticed with the router too, but I bought a small chisel morticer, and I really like it for ease of setup, etc.
> 
> I've learned quite a bit from your guide, which I'll take into the next time



Cheers Eric. That's really what I'm hoping to get across here. I'm fairly sure the exact window could be made with a few router cutters a hand tools. Forming the tenons can be done any number of ways, just for speed and ease a tenoners used. 
I was dreading trying to explain how to mark the height of the jambs, cutting them by hand (drawing around the head and cill) is easier to do then setting up the tenoner- if only I could saw straight [SMILING FACE WITH OPEN MOUTH]
You did well to make it without a p/t. I guess it's taken for granted until it stops working.

Coley


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## ColeyS1

AndyT":27u7t8jy said:


> Thanks for taking the time and trouble to explain all this in detail.
> I don't think I will ever need to make a window, but I do like to understand and appreciate how a professional joiner does.


My pleasure Andy. I'm not saying it's the right way or wrong way, but you should end up with a window that keep the wind and rain out  hopefully it won't fall to bits either lol

Coley


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## ColeyS1

Thanks for the comments Custard and Peter.
I'll try and get the sash making bit up tonight. 

I think trying to orientate the pics the right way may be a challenge. The only way I can think of,is to delete the tapatalk pics then upload them to photobucket. Im waiting to hear back from the tapatalk guys, an easy fix would be lovely.
Thanks guys 

Coley


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## ColeyS1

So the frames all done, now it's time to make the sashs. First thing is to machine the parts so they have rebates and a mould




The quickest way is to spindle them both at the same time




Another easy way would be a router table, obviously you would have to machine the mould and rebate seperstely. 
The mould depth and the rebate depth are the same. This should make tenoning easy peasy cause the shoulders are square.
I've found the easiest way to check they are square/the same depth, is to machine the glazing bar first




This will show up any differences. Once you're happy, roller feed/feather boards and away you go. 








Time to start marking out the parts for m &t's





Coley


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## ColeyS1

Measure your frame opening and mark this size onto a stile.
This is your overall height. Measure your bottom or top rail and mark those sizes onto the stile.





So in this instance I'll put a line 45mm in from one in (top rail) and 75mm in from the other end (bottom rail)
This sash will have 2 glazing bars so measure the distance between the two lines you've just drawn and knock off the width of your 2 glazing bars. 




Divide by 3, then mark out your bars. 
I've probably made it sound more complicated than it really is.
]

Coley


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## ColeyS1

Your stile should now have the top, bottom and glazing bar widths marked on the mould side (marked on the 12.7mm flat) 
This is the joint we're gonna be marking out.




Most tenons are haunched, to stop the tenon falling out. If we were to haunch these tenons, then there would be hardly any wood remaining. Hopefully these few pics might demonstrate.



This is what the joint would look like if it were haunched normally.(not much wood left) 
The permanent marker shows the only thing holding the sash together should the glue fail. 
This is what the joint would look like if we did a different joint,kind of a reverse haunch 




Side by side I think it's easy to spot which joint is better




All the stile needs for the top and bottom rail is a mortice right through. No haunch to the stile required, just decide on your tenon width (usually around 2/3rds) and square those lines around




On the square side it's good to allow a couple mm for wedging




This is the worst part of making the sash, it's easier after the marking out. 
So to summarise, the top rail (45mm overall) gets a 30mm mortice right through and the bottom rail (75mm overall) gets a 45-50mm mortice right through. I usually make the bottom rail tenon a tad smaller to allow for it being cut 9 degrees to match the cill. 
I hope that makes sense, my brain hurts trying to explain it lol , so welcome anyone perhaps explaining it clearer for me.

Coley


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## pollys13

Amazing, you make it look so easy. I'm sure its not so straightforward. The knives weren't off the shelf, you cut the mould shape into them?
Looking forward to Pt 3


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## ColeyS1

Now you've marked out one stile it's time to transfer the lines onto all the other stiles.




I usually clamp it's opposite stile together and then square the lines across.




I've found the easiest way to mark all the other stiles is to pair them together, then put the two stiles you've already marked on the outside of the pile. Get the two stiles roughly square




Then use a steel rule or straight edge to mark the lines on all the remaining stiles. I've marked a pile of stiles up to 4ft wide this way, it really doesn't matter if the two outside stiles aren't 100% square to each other. 




Now everything's marked out, it's morticing time.




Set your half inch chisel so it lines up with the half inch flat.




Set your chisel depth to just over half way and mortice to the lines from each side




When you finished you should end up with a pile of matching/paired stiles





Coley


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## ColeyS1

Your tenons need square shoulders




This is soooooo much easier to mark out !!! 
Measure your opening and subtract two stile widths, now they've been rebated and moulded. 




This is your shoulder to shoulder measurement. 




Square shoulders so this'll be a doddle compared to the frame marking out !
Mark the width of your tenon onto a top/bottom rail.




Cut this line tightish to the shoulder. 3mm off would be fine unless you decide you can cut nearer.





Coley


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## ColeyS1

Next step is to mark the reverse haunch bit.
Measure depth of rebate 




Then transfer this measurement on the top and bottom rails




Mortice this line to the depth of the tenon




You can set the morticer depth stop to speed things up




Once all those are done, tidy up the corners with a chisel




That's all the morticing finished now !!!!! Woo hoo :lol: 
Plonk the tenons in the mortices if you like.




You might find your glazing bars are a little snug. They've got to be wedged so you can sharpen them off a tad if it makes them easier to fit.




Next thing is to fit the tenons to the stiles. You could either mitre the moulds on the stile and rails, or a better job is to mitre and scribe the rails. If you do this way, any shrinkage/movement of the timber will be less noticeable. First we need to mitre the end of the rails and glazing bars




A simple wooden mitre template is more than adequate-no expensive metal version required.




This is one task I've found a wide but short butt chisel makes life so much easier. Using a normal length chisel in comparison, is like working on your bench, stood on a stepladder !
Keep your chisel flat against the mitre template and slice away until you reach the tenon- that's all there is to it.




Sometimes I struggle with gripping things, so having a 4 inch solo clamp to hand can be a blessing. Your glazing bars will need mitreing on both sides of each end.




That's all the mitres done . Next onto doing the scribing  


Coley


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## meccarroll

Hi looking at your workshop equipment and trollies for material movement I'd say you do this sort of work for a living. You have already said that the sequence of machining is
not how you would make a window in practice but show it this way so a novice might find the sequence easier to follow. 

The only technique that puzzles me, with regard to the frame, is why you put a shoulder on the side of the mullions at the M+T joint (a shoulder either side of the tenon and in line with it?).

Mark


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## ColeyS1

meccarroll":1kgtea7y said:


> Hi looking at your workshop equipment and trollies for material movement I'd say you do this sort of work for a living. You have already said that the sequence of machining is
> not how you would make a window in practice but show it this way so a novice might find the sequence easier to follow.
> 
> The only technique that puzzles me, with regard to the frame, is why you put a shoulder on the side of the mullions at the M+T joint (a shoulder either side of the tenon and in line with it?).
> 
> Mark


Hi Mark. I would normally do things slightly differently, the most obvious difference would be using a scriber on the tenoner for the sashs. This would also mean the tenoning and scribing would be done before the rebate and mould. I was hoping to show that someone who perhaps didn't fancy doing all the machining, could just buy in all the sections required.
I'm glad you raised the point about the notches on the frame tenons. For years I just made the tenons the same width, with no real problems. Depending on how warm/roasting the central heating was set, varied how much a gap you'd see when the tenons decided to shrink. Rather than see a hole, it seemed better to in effect scribe them over aswell. More work, but I think slightly better than a straight through joint.
Theres also the thought that if water did somehow find its way ontop of the head, the notch should help it from dripping inside.
Same width tenon, perfectly acceptable. Notched/scribed one, perhaps a tad better.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm relieved it's not all coming out as complete gibberish :lol: 

Coley


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## bench_monkey

Brilliant work coley, brilliant to read and see how it's supposed to be done rather than how I bodge it on the daily!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## katellwood

Coley 

Your reverse haunch is actually called a franking

great job by the way, not had an occasion to do something like this in years (since plastic took over) however did loads in the late seventies/early eighties. if I do anything like this now it is usually for double glazed units which dictates that the rebate also goes back past the mortice and tenon (hope this makes sense) which narrows the width of the tenon by the rebate depth. 

some may be interested in a few sketchups in did in this post 

http://forums.ukworkshop.co.uk/viewtopi ... 9&p=731989


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## skipdiver

Excellent work and thread Coley. I've knocked up a fair few windows in my time but always with pre machined window sections. All the local timber yards used to carry framing of different patterns but alas no more since the onset of UPVC. It's been a long time since i had occasion to make a wooden window and chances are i will never again, so thanks for the interesting peek into your world.


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## deema

Hi Coley
Great work,well done.

Out of curiosity, do you CE mark your windows? I note that since 2013 replacement external doors and windows now need to be CE marked, which is a complete nonsense IMO and installed by a Fensa registered fitter or building regulations inspected approved, otherwise the home owner runs into a nightmare when trying to sell their property.


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## RobinBHM

windows should be CE marked in theory but Ive never been asked.

Windows also have to have an energy rating and installed by a Certass / Fensa registered fitter. The installation company has to have a least 1 surveyor and 1 installer that have to be qualified either with an NVQ or minimum certificate of competence. Each job has to be insured with an insurance backed guarantee as part of the requirements. 

The quality of installation is mostly determined by whether it complies with the various building regulations, part L, part B, part F, part B.........


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## meccarroll

ColeyS1":33m6ry94 said:


> meccarroll":33m6ry94 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi looking at your workshop equipment and trollies for material movement I'd say you do this sort of work for a living. You have already said that the sequence of machining is
> not how you would make a window in practice but show it this way so a novice might find the sequence easier to follow.
> 
> The only technique that puzzles me, with regard to the frame, is why you put a shoulder on the side of the mullions at the M+T joint (a shoulder either side of the tenon and in line with it?).
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Mark. I would normally do things slightly differently, the most obvious difference would be using a scriber on the tenoner for the sashs. This would also mean the tenoning and scribing would be done before the rebate and mould. I was hoping to show that someone who perhaps didn't fancy doing all the machining, could just buy in all the sections required.
> I'm glad you raised the point about the notches on the frame tenons. For years I just made the tenons the same width, with no real problems. Depending on how warm/roasting the central heating was set, varied how much a gap you'd see when the tenons decided to shrink. Rather than see a hole, it seemed better to in effect scribe them over aswell. More work, but I think slightly better than a straight through joint.
> Theres also the thought that if water did somehow find its way ontop of the head, the notch should help it from dripping inside.
> Same width tenon, perfectly acceptable. Notched/scribed one, perhaps a tad better.
> Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm relieved it's not all coming out as complete gibberish :lol:
> 
> Coley
Click to expand...


Thank you for the reply Coley. It's very nice that you have taken the time to construct a window in a way that makes it easier for a newcomer to follow rather than show how you would actually make a window when doing it to make money. I think this will be very helpful to a first time window maker or anyone contemplating making a window for the first time.

Mark =D>


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## pollys13

Very interesting Coley, thank you. Your not using a marking knife but a fineliner pen, pencil? Why no marking knife and what type of pen, pencil are you using? Can I see some of that router non slip rubber webbing on your morticer? I going to look for a short butt chisel, I expect are all much the same quality but can you recommend a make? As I say very interesting, enlightening how this is done. thanks for taking time to explain to people. You certainly are a very able craftsman!
Cheers.


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## skipdiver

pollys13":2ko6p0ql said:


> Very interesting Coley, thank you. Your not using a marking knife but a fineliner pen, pencil? Why no marking knife and what type of pen, pencil are you using? Can I see some of that router non slip rubber webbing on your morticer? I going to look for a short butt chisel, I expect are all much the same quality but can you recommend a make? As I say very interesting, enlightening how this is done. thanks for taking time to explain to people. You certainly are a very able craftsman!
> Cheers.



I have a 1" Crown butt chisel that i rather like. I bought it for paring hinge mortices, which gives more control. Was about £10 when i bought it.


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## ColeyS1

bench_monkey":2v0mhec0 said:


> Brilliant work coley, brilliant to read and see how it's supposed to be done rather than how I bodge it on the daily!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cheers bench monkey. I'm sure there's many other ways that work, this seems to tick most boxes for me....for now  

Coley


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## ColeyS1

katellwood":3k0zpa7q said:


> Coley
> 
> Your reverse haunch is actually called a franking
> 
> great job by the way, not had an occasion to do something like this in years (since plastic took over) however did loads in the late seventies/early eighties. if I do anything like this now it is usually for double glazed units which dictates that the rebate also goes back past the mortice and tenon (hope this makes sense) which narrows the width of the tenon by the rebate depth.
> 
> some may be interested in a few sketchups in did in this post
> 
> http://forums.ukworkshop.co.uk/viewtopi ... 9&p=731989


Thanks for clarifying the name katellwood. I struggled for about 10 minutes to find the correct spelling and gave up in the end :lol: 
Your sketchup drawings are amazing ! I'd love to be able to draw with that amount of detail but can just about manage shapes, let alone all the scribey parts. 
I know what you mean regarding double glazing. This window is probably a once in 3 year kind of job. It's mostly all double glazing with the odd like for like listed window. 
Thanks for sharing those sketchup pics. They make it much easier to understand.

Coley


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## ColeyS1

skipdiver":2b72w5kb said:


> Excellent work and thread Coley. I've knocked up a fair few windows in my time but always with pre machined window sections. All the local timber yards used to carry framing of different patterns but alas no more since the onset of UPVC. It's been a long time since i had occasion to make a wooden window and chances are i will never again, so thanks for the interesting peek into your world.



Glad you found the thread interesting. I had no idea the parts could be bought off the shelf back in the day. Out of curiosity did they provide hardwood cills or was it all softwood ? 
Cheers

Coley


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## ColeyS1

deema":2z00lvdq said:


> Hi Coley
> Great work,well done.
> 
> Out of curiosity, do you CE mark your windows? I note that since 2013 replacement external doors and windows now need to be CE marked, which is a complete nonsense IMO and installed by a Fensa registered fitter or building regulations inspected approved, otherwise the home owner runs into a nightmare when trying to sell their property.


I haven't needed to yet but agree it all seems a complete faff. I think the majority of windows I make are bespoke to match/replace existing. This was a like for like replacement for some listed windows. The cameras possibly showing the wood as having a red tinge. It's actually softwood but the cameras making it look different...if you know what I mean  
I remember at the time thinking the world was gonna end, but luckily it hasn't seemed to affect me yet.
Robins reply kind of sums it up.
I looked into being Fensa registered but the cost, not to mention having to fit x amount per year made it not worth while. To get around it, I get the customer to inform building control before any work commences. Occasionally they'll ask for section drawings but more often than not, make an appearance when fitting begins, followed by a final visit when everything's complete. I think they charge about 90 quid for the piece of paper but atleast it's all above board. I thought it might put a few people off when I explain the Fensa situation. Most customers just take it in their stride and just accept it has to be done. 


Coley


----------



## ColeyS1

meccarroll":2ix6p2xy said:


> ColeyS1":2ix6p2xy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meccarroll":2ix6p2xy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi looking at your workshop equipment and trollies for material movement I'd say you do this sort of work for a living. You have already said that the sequence of machining is
> not how you would make a window in practice but show it this way so a novice might find the sequence easier to follow.
> 
> The only technique that puzzles me, with regard to the frame, is why you put a shoulder on the side of the mullions at the M+T joint (a shoulder either side of the tenon and in line with it?).
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Mark. I would normally do things slightly differently, the most obvious difference would be using a scriber on the tenoner for the sashs. This would also mean the tenoning and scribing would be done before the rebate and mould. I was hoping to show that someone who perhaps didn't fancy doing all the machining, could just buy in all the sections required.
> I'm glad you raised the point about the notches on the frame tenons. For years I just made the tenons the same width, with no real problems. Depending on how warm/roasting the central heating was set, varied how much a gap you'd see when the tenons decided to shrink. Rather than see a hole, it seemed better to in effect scribe them over aswell. More work, but I think slightly better than a straight through joint.
> Theres also the thought that if water did somehow find its way ontop of the head, the notch should help it from dripping inside.
> Same width tenon, perfectly acceptable. Notched/scribed one, perhaps a tad better.
> Thanks for taking the time to read this. I'm relieved it's not all coming out as complete gibberish :lol:
> 
> Coley
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thank you for the reply Coley. It's very nice that you have taken the time to construct a window in a way that makes it easier for a newcomer to follow rather than show how you would actually make a window when doing it to make money. I think this will be very helpful to a first time window maker or anyone contemplating making a window for the first time.
> 
> Mark =D>
Click to expand...

I've always enjoyed the fitting of sashes for some reason, as sad as that might sound. Even though I could have probably saved a few quid by machining the joints, I still on occasion think it's worth taking longer and then proper enjoying it. 

Coley


----------



## ColeyS1

pollys13":rexq7thz said:


> Very interesting Coley, thank you. Your not using a marking knife but a fineliner pen, pencil? Why no marking knife and what type of pen, pencil are you using? Can I see some of that router non slip rubber webbing on your morticer? I going to look for a short butt chisel, I expect are all much the same quality but can you recommend a make? As I say very interesting, enlightening how this is done. thanks for taking time to explain to people. You certainly are a very able craftsman!
> Cheers.


I'm not sure about the nonslip mat you mention, I think you may be mistaken  
You can use a marking knife if you'd rather. I've always found a 0.5mm mechanical pencil more than accurate enough for joinery. Rubs out much easier aswell if you do put a line in the wrong place :lol: 
Apologies for not replying to your email regarding the 9 degree cut. It was kind of a slip of the tongue. I quite often think it might be frowned upon using machines instead of good ol hand tools. If I didn't use the tipped over chopsaw for the 9 degree cut, my other option would be a tenon saw. Reality is, the chopsaw can perform the task quicker, cleaner with repeatable results. The downside, if you cut one wrong on the chopsaw, you're royally rubberducked cause they'll all be like it :lol: 
You won't regret getting an ashley aisles butt chisel. They're like princes though, once you pop you can't stop ! You'll end up with the whole set. 
Glad you find it interesting and appreciate the comments Peter. As soon as I started photographing each step, it was surprising how quickly the numbers started rising.


Coley


----------



## katellwood

ColeyS1":2uy29q6a said:


> katellwood":2uy29q6a said:
> 
> 
> 
> Coley
> 
> Your reverse haunch is actually called a franking
> 
> great job by the way, not had an occasion to do something like this in years (since plastic took over) however did loads in the late seventies/early eighties. if I do anything like this now it is usually for double glazed units which dictates that the rebate also goes back past the mortice and tenon (hope this makes sense) which narrows the width of the tenon by the rebate depth.
> 
> some may be interested in a few sketchups in did in this post
> 
> http://forums.ukworkshop.co.uk/viewtopi ... 9&p=731989
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for clarifying the name katellwood. I struggled for about 10 minutes to find the correct spelling and gave up in the end :lol:
> Your sketchup drawings are amazing ! I'd love to be able to draw with that amount of detail but can just about manage shapes, let alone all the scribey parts.
> I know what you mean regarding double glazing. This window is probably a once in 3 year kind of job. It's mostly all double glazing with the odd like for like listed window.
> Thanks for sharing those sketchup pics. They make it much easier to understand.
> 
> Coley
Click to expand...


just to clarify







The guy who i was apprenticed to told me the name however I have also found a reference in a Charles Hayward book

Its referred to as being franked as opposed to haunched


----------



## skipdiver

ColeyS1":3kkf9jsy said:


> skipdiver":3kkf9jsy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent work and thread Coley. I've knocked up a fair few windows in my time but always with pre machined window sections. All the local timber yards used to carry framing of different patterns but alas no more since the onset of UPVC. It's been a long time since i had occasion to make a wooden window and chances are i will never again, so thanks for the interesting peek into your world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Glad you found the thread interesting. I had no idea the parts could be bought off the shelf back in the day. Out of curiosity did they provide hardwood cills or was it all softwood ?
> Cheers
> 
> Coley
Click to expand...


They did do hardwood cills but they were machined to match the door framing that was also available. It could be adapted to fit windows with some fettling. I still have some of that hardwood cill in my workshop and just the other day made an internal threshold with it for a job where two floors of differing heights meet. Strong smelling and made me itch a bit- not sure what it is.


----------



## ColeyS1

The glazing bars easy to scribe. But the glazing bar fairly low in the vice jaws. Get a well tensioned coping saw and begin sawing to the line. Cut a bit, peak at the backside, perhaps adjust the angle of the saw and keep going till you reach the tenon. It'll become second nature and you'll soon be able to follow the line on both sides with ease. 




If you hover your head directly above the tenon you'll be able to see both lines at the same time. Chisel off the remaining bit.

The rails require an incannal gouge. A 3/8 one is my go to gouge for most scribes.




Follow the shape of the mould/mitre line. Don't try having it all out in one go, have a few bites at it ! Ideally about 6mm deep past the flat bit is enough, give or take, doesn't have to be exact.




You should then end up with a pile of readily scribed rails.
Place your tenon in the mortice




Mark where the scribe you've just done ends.




Saw this line, or chisel what ever works for you.
Next step make a hedgehog.




Trim the hedgehog 




Then finally tidy up the hedgehog so it doesn't look hedgehogy anymore. Don't be sad, you can make more !! :lol: 




That's 1 joint completed ! Test fit-









Coley


----------



## mikefab

This thread is set to be THE Internet resource on window making!


----------



## pollys13

Again brilliant stuff Coley
" Rubs out much easier as well if you do put a line in the wrong place "......Ah........... right 
I have the Charles Haywood book.
Just had a Google for Ashley Aisles butt chisels, which width should I go for?


----------



## ColeyS1

pollys13":y7etok5f said:


> Again brilliant stuff Coley
> " Rubs out much easier as well if you do put a line in the wrong place "......Ah........... right
> I have the Charles Haywood book.
> Just had a Google for Ashley Aisles butt chisels, which width should I go for?


Well I prefer the 2inch just because I have one. This mould is tiny compared with some frame moulds that need to be mitred. A 1.5 inch would probably be more useful to be honest, perhaps even a little easier to get use to. 
I took a pic with a smaller chisel




You might find a smaller chisel works fine. It's something I really struggled with in the early days. For some reason I also felt the need to lift the chisel off the mitre template and found smaller chisels a bit wobbly. Perhaps it's just me, mummy did tell me I was special :lol: 



mikefab":y7etok5f said:


> This thread is set to be THE Internet resource on window making!


Glad you find it helpful  

Coley


----------



## ColeyS1

Now all the joint fit, clean up the inside edges, ready for gluing.





Tapatalks having issues with uploading pics, hopefully this'll work.

Coley


----------



## ColeyS1

Before gluing, check your sash measurements.
Cut wedges








Glue all your mortices and tenons and assemble the sash. Forgot to mention to label where the glazing bars go each time you fit one.
Have a couple parallel bearers /pieces of wood and lie your sash down on the bench




On the top and bottom rails put a clamp each side of the rails. The glazing bars are small, so usually one clamp on any side is enough.




Turn the sash over and check the diagonals. If the measurements are slightly different, hitting the longer measurements horn, might fix it




If the measurements are still different, adjusting the clamps to pull the frame square will definitely fix the issue




I've demonstrated this to the extreme. In reality moving the clamps 6mm will probably be enough to pull it square.
Once your measurements are the same, start wedging.
Start with your outside wedge to force the tenon up tight to the mortice.




Tap this home and then tap the other one in. On the glazing bars, tap them in equally




Be cautious with wedging and watch/listen to what's happening. I was told to smash them in till they stop but I think a better suggestion is to tap them in until you feel it's not going in anymore.
In the early days I was gluing a softwood sash and smashed the wedge right through the mould side ! You'll only do it once, but just be aware it can be done  
Clean off all the glue- your handsaw will thankyou later if you also clean around the wedges/tenons. 
Stack them somewhere flat.

Coley


----------



## DTR

I must admit, sash windows leave me rather baffled. Nonetheless, this is fascinating stuff. Bravo, Coley =D>


----------



## pollys13

Thanks again for taking the trouble to show us all this.


----------



## johnfarris

Nice thread Coley  I have a couple of questions

Do you slightly angle your mortices to take the wedges?

What ratio do you use for your wedges?

I have always found wedges a pain especially when they break when you are at the start of tapping them in


----------



## ColeyS1

johnfarris":d13ffi1l said:


> Nice thread Coley  I have a couple of questions
> 
> Do you slightly angle your mortices to take the wedges?
> 
> What ratio do you use for your wedges?
> 
> I have always found wedges a pain especially when they break when you are at the start of tapping them in


I just do the mortices square for the wedges John. I know what you mean with the wedges snapping. I suspect alot of its down to short grain timber perhaps. My fave is when the wedge snaps but the hammer keeps going and strikes the edge of the stile. It's usually followed by my finger getting covered with saliva then smeared onto the half crown/dent, then a few choice words ! lol
I'm sure it happens to everyone, still gutting though. I usually make the wedges 70mm long and tapered about 14mm to 1mm. Most times they could be shorter but I prefer to keep my distance from the edge of the stile where possible.




DTR":d13ffi1l said:


> I must admit, sash windows leave me rather baffled. Nonetheless, this is fascinating stuff. Bravo, Coley =D>


There's not much to it really, it's just of little tasks that after a while start resembling a window. Thanks DTR  


pollys13":d13ffi1l said:


> Thanks again for taking the trouble to show us all this.


No problem Peter. If you want to see a potential tablesaw jig for doing the 9 degree cill cut, just give me a shout and I'll cobble something together and post some pics  

Coley


----------



## ColeyS1

Once the wedges are tapped in the sash clamps can be removed. 
I prefer to let the glue dry before any further work, just to prevent smearing glue residue everywhere or bumping it out of square. The wedges perform the same job as sash clamps,so if you really really wanted to carry on, you could, just take it easy.




Cut off your wedges.
Fill any small blemishes with brummers external filler (or an alternative) Any bigger holes/knots a 2pac filler is a better choice 




Belt sand each side. The rails first, then finally the stiles to remove the belt sander marks. You shouldn't need to go near the glazing bars with a belt sander. 




Orbital sand both sides




Sand off inside sharp edges.




Cut the top horns off. A tablesaw will make light work of it, or a handsaw would do exactly the same.
Cut your horns off the bottom. This will need to be a 9 degree cut to match the cill.




If your tablesaw tilts to the right, your rebates for glass, 95% of the time, will always need to be facing up when performing this task- Yup you guessed it, early days I cut several the wrong way  If you're doing this by hand, a fairly simple way would be to just saw the horns off square, then plane a 9 degree bevel after.
If your sashs/casements are a smidgen wide, offering just an edge in the hole will be a good indication you've got the height right.




Once the fixed sashs are fitted into each opening, label them so they don't get muddled up.




Chiseling the position will ensure it doesn't get painted over and lost.

Just the opening sash left !

Coley


----------



## pollys13

Waiting for the next installment, top work, and thanks for sharing.


----------



## ColeyS1

If needed, get your hinge side stile to fit against the frame. I aim for a 2mm gap all the way the casement, so if it's tight for width, remove 2mm before you start




Next, with the stile pushed tight to the hinge side, also allow a 2mm gap on the top and bottom. If somethings slightly out of square you may need to remove a few shavings to get the joints parallel. Don't be too hasty doing this. It's easy to remove too much VERY quickly !!




Next step is to think about where you're going to put the hinges.




Fairly near the top and bottom is best. On longer sashes you can use 3, but I think 2 should be adequate for this.




I chose to keep them 30mm in from the rebate line.
Set a marking gauge to depth, allowing for a 2mm ish gap. This might mean going slightly deeper or shallower then the leaf thickness.




If you wind back to machining the frame, you'll remember using a hinge to get the position of the rebates drip groove. This will be the height of your hinge, so set marking gauge to this.




Next step- hedgehog time !
















With the your hinges chopped in the sash/casement, offer it into the frame. Ensure you've got your correct gap top and bottom (note 2mm packer in top gap), then transfer hinge lines to the frame.




Square the lines into the rebate and chop in the hinge recess to the frame




I find it easiest to chop the frame vertical. Before having a tail vice I always chopped the frame hinges with the frame flat on the bench. Whatever works for you [WINKING FACE]




A small mallet and butt chisel is definitely a blessing when mallet swinging is restricted.




Take off the closing leading edge. I prefer to do enough so the closing side shutss, but is still tight enough to plane the 2mm gap once the sash is hung.




Im sure this'll be obvious, but to ensure you don't remove anything from the front edge (only leading edge) keep your plane away from it.




Pilot drill one hole in each leaf. Use a normal pozi instead of the slotted brass, to make life easier.
Check the hinge side gap is correct.




Remove shavings on the closing side so you've got a 2mm gap when it closes.
You should also have a 2mmish gap between the inside of the sash and frame rebate




When you're happy with the gaps remove sash, and machine a drip groove around the entire outside of the sash.




This should be in line with your hinge recess. 




There was a tiny slither left (poor machine setup) so I chiseled it off.




Sand up edges.
That's all there is to it !!
Temporary pozi screws for making hanging/removal easier.




A few shavings from-




Will help it to sweep past the draughtstrip easier. 
That's it folks.









Hope this may inspire someone to have a go at making a window. Having a massive amount of tools can help speed things up, but the reality is, everything could be done with fairly basic tools if time isn't an issue. I'd say one of the most important things is to check your dimensions before getting out the glue pot.
I've got a few more pics of painting,fitting, but feel this is probably a good place to stop.

Cheers


Coley


----------



## Beau

Top class work there Coley

So much work and difficult work at that goes into making a good window and that looks like a very, very good window =D>


----------



## pollys13

No problem Peter. If you want to see a potential tablesaw jig for doing the 9 degree cill cut, just give me a shout and I'll cobble something together and post some pics  
Out of interest, yes please.


----------



## pollys13

" ...... A small mallet and butt chisel is definitely a blessing when mallet swinging is restricted "....... ahh 

Amazing work and also a very nice window, looks to me like Oak but you said something else but the light changes how it looks.
As a time served experienced joiner how long did it take in toal do you think from start to finish to make it. Those mortar grooves is that a standard thing on frames then? That window I fished out the skip to look at how was put together, it had grooves I thought they were weathering strips, or thats what I thought they were called. The window board was jointed to the frame like the cill was too. I am familiar with the cill, jambs and header all forming one unit.
Ps how much did you flog the window for, if don't want to say, OK


----------



## pollys13

Also what was the total for all the timber to make the one window?


----------



## ColeyS1

pollys13":3455pc7m said:


> " ...... A small mallet and butt chisel is definitely a blessing when mallet swinging is restricted "....... ahh
> 
> Amazing work and also a very nice window, looks to me like Oak but you said something else but the light changes how it looks.
> As a time served experienced joiner how long did it take in toal do you think from start to finish to make it. Those mortar grooves is that a standard thing on frames then? That window I fished out the skip to look at how was put together, it had grooves I thought they were weathering strips, or thats what I thought they were called. The window board was jointed to the frame like the cill was too. I am familiar with the cill, jambs and header all forming one unit.
> Ps how much did you flog the window for, if don't want to say, OK


It's a little tricky to put an exact price on it. There was lots of other bits being done at the same time- repairs, doors etc. Off the top of my head, I wouldn't think they'd be much change from a grand if you were to make it on it's own. Generally I allow 2.5 days a window, perhaps a tad more if it's espag bolt locks. Hth.
Regarding the Mortar groove, it's something I always like to put in. On this window, the overall height was right. It was just a bit long cornered trying to get in, due to an out of level wibbly wobbly wooden lintel.





I find it much easier having 2 seperate sides to remove with the planer,rather than trying to stop about halfway from each side. 
The window was going into an old stone wall, so the groove will have filled up with mortar as the outside of the frame got stopped in. It just helps sturdy everything up.
Might be worth mentioning the screw heads. I use to use winzer wurth screws until it became more hassle than it was worth,ordering them. The only time I noticed cheaper screws snapping,was when they had glue on the threads when I was trying to remove them. Countersink them a bit deeper and you can plane right over the top of them if needed.





Beau":3455pc7m said:


> Top class work there Coley
> 
> So much work and difficult work at that goes into making a good window and that looks like a very, very good window =D>


Thankyou Beau, appreciate the compliment  



Coley


----------



## pollys13

Thanks again for posting all this thread, what make, type hinges for did you use for external use? You havn't come back on my PM. That was a No 7 jointer you used on the stile of the sash, is that the preferred plane for that job?
Cheers Coley.


----------



## pollys13

Any chance of some photos of the fitting in?


----------



## pollys13

Oh, If I come across anyone wanting windows made up etc. You'll come as highly recommended and I'll get back to you about it.


----------



## ColeyS1

pollys13":sm1njzrr said:


> Thanks again for posting all this thread, what make, type hinges for did you use for external use? You havn't come back on my PM. That was a No 7 jointer you used on the stile of the sash, is that the preferred plane for that job?
> Cheers Coley.



I think it was a number 7, but a block plane, or a 3,4, 4.5, 5, 6, 7 or an 8 would do the job. You seem determine to chuck money away when you could more than happily use what you have  

Regarding fitting I didn't take many pics. It never looks good being on your phone all the time when the customers around.

You should be able to work out timber cost from the cutting list provided on page one- it'll be good practice for when you price your own windows !

Cheers 

Coley


----------



## pollys13

You seem determine to chuck money away when you could more than happily use what you have  ...... No way.... mate  I've got a number 4 and a 5 jack.
Regarding fitting I didn't take many pics. It never looks good being on your phone all the time when the customers around. ....... right 
What did you pay to have the cutter knife made for the moulding and the rebate cut?


----------



## pollys13

You mentioned showing the jig for cutting the 9 degree cill cut on the tablesaw.


----------



## ColeyS1

pollys13":4eaayt8k said:


> You seem determine to chuck money away when you could more than happily use what you have  ...... No way.... mate  I've got a number 4 and a 5 jack.
> Regarding fitting I didn't take many pics. It never looks good being on your phone all the time when the customers around. ....... right
> What did you pay to have the cutter knife made for the moulding and the rebate cut?


It was years ago. Somewhere between 50 and £100 i think



pollys13":4eaayt8k said:


> You mentioned showing the jig for cutting the 9 degree cill cut on the tablesaw.


You mentioned showing pics of your new spindle fence but I don't keep mentioning it  

There's only so many hours in a day and sometimes Its bed time before I've got round to doing everything, so apologies for not dropping everything and replying immediately ! So far I've responded to all your 25+ pms, bit must admit I thought you were pulling my leg with the pencil related message :lol: 

As requested here's a quick mock up of how you could do the 9 degree cill cut on a table saw.




The closer the block of wood gets to the blade, the steeper the angle 




You could have the block of wood so it slides if you wanted to be extra snazzy, or just screw/clamp the block of wood in place. Hth

Coley


----------



## pollys13

OK thanks again Coley , will post photo of spindle fence as soon as have finished assembling hood.
Promise 
Ps I've ordered the pencil


----------



## mikefab

ColeyS1":9y66rccm said:


> So far I've responded to all your 25+ pms.....



Wow.


----------



## mugginsNO1

This is a wonderful resource for anyone wanting to take on this task. Superb.


----------



## ColeyS1

mugginsNO1":4c1fptdg said:


> This is a wonderful resource for anyone wanting to take on this task. Superb.


Thanks mugginsNO1. Glad you found it informative. Welcome to the forum btw  

Coley 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## mugginsNO1

ColeyS1":3kpebqis said:


> mugginsNO1":3kpebqis said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a wonderful resource for anyone wanting to take on this task. Superb.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mugginsNO1. Glad you found it informative. Welcome to the forum btw
> 
> Coley
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



Thanks, glad to be here.


----------



## Sherman1973

brilliant work..thanks for sharing with us


----------



## MickCheese

Coley

How did I miss this?

Fantastic write up and I fully appreciate how much time this must have taken so for that, I thank you.

I have waded through all five pages and every word, (good job I'm at work at the moment) really enjoyed it, a great insight into how a window is made.

I'm not sure I will ever need to make one but after reading this I really think I could have a good go and make a passable job, to me it's just a hobby but the way you have written it up would certainely give me the confidence to follow your instructions and get there in the end.

I just want you to know the window you made looks fantastic but more that your efforts were worth it as I gained a lot and enjoyed the read.

Thanks

Mick


----------



## rhrwilliams

Fantastic thread - Thank you Coley


----------



## MrDavidRoberts

This is simply amazing work you have done!
Attention to detail is what I like the most, I have never attempted to make a window in quality like this and I think I will never will because of all the machinery needed.
Good job!


----------



## ColeyS1

MrDavidRoberts":21a9woyu said:


> This is simply amazing work you have done!
> Attention to detail is what I like the most, I have never attempted to make a window in quality like this and I think I will never will because of all the machinery needed.
> Good job!


Thanks David. 
Don't be put off whatsoever by the machines I used. They are only used for speed. Every process the machines did, are easy enough to do with routers, hand tools etc. What I was hoping to show was the arrangement of the joints, timber sections and the orders in which they can be done. The machining stage is fairly boring, it's using the hand tools that's most enjoyable.
Anyways, I appreciate your comment.
Cheers
Coley


----------



## Mutley Racers

Wow, what an amazing thread. Thank you so much h for posting this guide to building windows. I love wood and have wanted to try and make some nice windows to replace my plastic fantastic ones. But what you did was so precise and beautiful I believe I will not even attempt it.


----------



## AJB Temple

Outstandingly helpful thread. Thanks Coley. I don't have a spindle moulder but can see how to adapt my kit to do this. Very helpful tips.


----------



## ColeyS1

Mutley Racers":cgqc9w5i said:


> Wow, what an amazing thread. Thank you so much h for posting this guide to building windows. I love wood and have wanted to try and make some nice windows to replace my plastic fantastic ones. But what you did was so precise and beautiful I believe I will not even attempt it.


Only just noticed this, thanks for the compliment. Don't be put off by it. Yes there are alot of steps, but that's all they are. Treat each step as it's own little job and before you know it, you'll have a window.
Coley

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## ColeyS1

AJB Temple":2abxe3o5 said:


> Outstandingly helpful thread. Thanks Coley. I don't have a spindle moulder but can see how to adapt my kit to do this. Very helpful tips.


Glad you found it useful  Good to hear that even though you haven't got the exact same kit, you've got other options that will enable you to end up with the same.
Cheers
Coley 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## musicmunki

Thanks man, awesome to see a master craftsman


----------



## smartecosse

Wow, I'd never appreciated the amount of work involved!


----------



## Bluekingfisher

Great post, are you thinking of posting something similar regards sash style windows with mullions/muntins?


----------



## coupster

just read this so thanks for posting it up, a very useful informative thread. Nice of you to take the time to do so, as well.


----------



## Aidex

Hi Coley

What an amazing and informative post! Thanks so much for sharing it all with us!!!

Without wanting to insult you or any other craftsman, I’ve heard mention of some folk using the Domino to make doors, windows and gates rather than M&T joints. Clearly there’s a lot less skill involved with the Domino. In practical terms though is using a Domino OK or would you regard it a big no no/botch that could or will lead to premature failure if the sash and frame? (Please no one shoot me down I won’t be making a window anytime soon and certainly nothing that would look anything like Coleys!) :? 

Many thanks again for kindly sharing your expertise!

Aidex


----------



## thetyreman

what a great thread! very useful information, did you use meranti for the wood?


----------



## ColeyS1

Thanks for the feedback guys.
Aidex personally I wouldn't make a window or a door without having a back up plan if the glue were to fail. On the frames the screws are the backup, on the casement the wedges provide additional strength. 
With modern glues it'd probably be ok, but with a little extra effort you could use joints that gave stood the test of time.


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## ColeyS1

thetyreman":360h4z7k said:


> what a great thread! very useful information, did you use meranti for the wood?


Thanks. I think the wood was sapele [WINKING FACE]

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## Chunky Monkey

Hi Coley,

Sorry for dragging this up again, I read this thread at the time you published it and bookmarked it as being useful. I'm now at the stage where I'm about to start making my windows (a winter project tucked way in my workshop  ) 

I have a couple of questions:
1) On the fixed sashes, what's your preferred method of fixing the sash to the frame, glue and screwed?
2) When measuring up for the frame how much tolerance would you normally allow for to fit the aperature? Mine are going into a timber frame, would 3mm all round be too much / too little.

Thanks
Jon


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## ColeyS1

Hi Jon. I like to bed the sashes in the frame rebate with silicone then use an additional fixing just to be sure. Usually it's screwed as well in the glass rebate, so the putty covers the screw over. I've also used nails before (smaller hole to fill if you can't fix in the glazing rebate) which ever you choose will be fine.
Measuring how much smaller to make the frame isn't a straightforward answer. If you're replacing something that's already there then I'd work from that. I find a small cold chisel to the outside plaster is enough for you to measure the overall existing frame size accurately. Brick work outside is easier, just scratch away a little silicone so you can find the overall frame size.
If you're fitting into a new opening a lot will depend on the quality of the masonry/brickwork and how it's gonna be finished. If it's gonna be plastered in you could make it 10-15mm slack and wedge in place without any issue. If it's brickwork you'll wanna make it much more snug. Silicone will cover a 4mm gap without looking too ugly -it's whether the brickwork is nice and straight will decide if the frame needs scribing/fitting into the opening or whether it'll just slot straight in. 


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## Horsee1

Great write up, I like your jig for setting your 13mm depth cut on spindle.

Interesting to see you mark everything out and chop mortises/tennons after rebating rather than when the stock is still square.


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## ColeyS1

Horsee1":2xynww98 said:


> Great write up, I like your jig for setting your 13mm depth cut on spindle.
> 
> Interesting to see you mark everything out and chop mortises/tennons after rebating rather than when the stock is still square.


Glad you found it interesting. The jig idea came many years ago from trends similar offering for router table setup. Only have to make one once but it does make setting up so much quicker/easier.

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## imrance69

Great Write up


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## ColeyS1

imrance69":3sih310i said:


> Great Write up


Thanks pal, welcome to the forum.

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## AJB Temple

Very nice work and a useful thread. Thanks.


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## timstevens

Hi Very helpful indeed. Unfortunately I cant open the link from Katellwood as it might have the answer . If the windows were designed to except double glazing units would there be much difference.


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## timstevens

Im making similar size windows and want to leave the rebate big enough for double glazing although for the moment single glazing willl do in them. If i cut the stock a bit bigger say 4inch frames and 2 and a quater sashes is it ok to leave the rebate bigger or will that effect the M and T 
Your post is very helpful and in fact given me great confidence to start this at all .


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## ColeyS1

Frame size could be the same size, just bigger rebate to suit the sash thickness. I make stiles for double glazing 57x57 with a 40x15mm rebate for glass (24 mm unit) 3/4 mortice and tenon. 

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## timstevens

Thanks a mill. Start Tomorrow!!!


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## Adrian Thompson

First time on the forum and seriously impressed with your skills - any chance you could be persuaded to do a one-week course?


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## Landiman

Many thanks Coley for sharing your experience and knowledge. We are building a workshop with 2 windows and a large barn door for my son (on a tight budget). Your posts are of great benefit.
Regards 
John


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## Kiz89

Hi Corey,

Brilliant write up this.

Do you typically do the glazing also? Would love some details on this process. Specifically if you normally use timber glazing beads or putty for glass install?

cheers,
Kieran


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## Kiz89

Also, are your timber sections glue laminated? I’m in Australia and find it hard to get anything over 40-50mm


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## Housey210

Joiner by trade, I personally cut all the mortice and tenons before any moulding.


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## Jacob

Housey210 said:


> Joiner by trade, I personally cut all the mortice and tenons before any moulding.


Me too. Mortices but only tenon cheeks first; shoulders last after all mouldings, rebates etc.
Also after cutting to length and planing I'd do 100% mark up from a rod - once the rod is drawn up you are on autopilot - no further measuring needed, or marking from one piece to another. You'd have to work like that if you had several to do. Even just one it's essential, faster and eliminates error.


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## Housey210

what is the choice of wood?


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## Jacob

Housey210 said:


> what is the choice of wood?


Traditionally has nearly always been painted redwood. Lasts forever if properly detailed and maintained.


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## RobinBHM

Housey210 said:


> Joiner by trade, I personally cut all the mortice and tenons before any moulding.


yup that normal

easier to mark out, easier to mortice

and leaving tenons long on georgian bars helps with support through spindle


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## MCTWoodwork

ColeyS1 said:


> So the frames all done, now it's time to make the sashs. First thing is to machine the parts so they have rebates and a mould
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The quickest way is to spindle them both at the same time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another easy way would be a router table, obviously you would have to machine the mould and rebate seperstely.
> The mould depth and the rebate depth are the same. This should make tenoning easy peasy cause the shoulders are square.
> I've found the easiest way to check they are square/the same depth, is to machine the glazing bar first
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will show up any differences. Once you're happy, roller feed/feather boards and away you go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Time to start marking out the parts for m &t's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Coley


Brilliant photos and explanation @ColeyS1. I would love make some windows., although I need the space first though! 

Thanks for taking the time to show us how its done properly with great pictures. 

Cheers,

Matthew


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## johnnyb

coley hasn't been on the forum since april 2022.


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## ColeyS1

Tis true. My worst was having my neighbour ask me to make some door wedges and i wasnt able to do it. I miss making stuff so much. Amazon is better than netflix but nothing beats being in a workshop


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## pollys13

Chin up Coley


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