# Best way to join thin/narrow pieces of wood?



## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

I'm struggling to find a good way to join thin pieces of wood.
The only way I seem to be able to do it is a butt joint, which I know is inherently weak, so I'm looking for other ways.

The wood is about a quarter inch thick, and about one and a half inches wide.

Every way I'd usually join two pieces of wood isn't working for thinner pieces.
I don't have clamps to glue a miter, nor the equipment to efficiently cut one, and it's too small to pass along the routers fence without falling through if I wanted to do a rebate.
Using hand tools isn't any better, either, as the wood cracks and I'm not skilled enough to get everything square if I were to try a rebate using it.

Even cutting it is a job.
The circular saw is too cumbersome to use on a small piece like that, the band saw has always been hit and miss because of the blade drift so I rarely ever use it, and again, hand tools I'm just not proficient enough in yet to be able to get it square.

Any tips?

Thanks allot!


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## RobinBHM (1 Feb 2016)

Without knowing what you are making, my suggestion woukd be to make a sled of sorts for you circular saw with a sheet of ply or mdf. You can then create a support with zero clearance.

Jigs can be made for gluing. Basically a sheet of mdf with battens screwed on to the exact sizr of your frame, leave off the 4th side and use clamps or wedges.


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## Wildman (1 Feb 2016)

scarf joint


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## custard (1 Feb 2016)

If you want to avoid hand skills or machinery altogether why not just overlap them and glue, or if they need to end up in the same plane then butt joint them with a strengthening piece glued on each side to cover the butt joint. Not pretty, but with modern glues either would do the job.


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## undergroundhunter (1 Feb 2016)

half lap??

matt


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

RobinBHM":3b0ulmo9 said:


> Without knowing what you are making, my suggestion woukd be to make a sled of sorts for you circular saw with a sheet of ply or mdf. You can then create a support with zero clearance.



Good idea, just checked that out on YouTube. Seems simple enough.

And my apologies, was meant to say but forgot - the thing I'm trying to make are the front, back and sides of a small box.
The bottom and top pieces are done, it's just this that I'm having trouble with.



> Jigs can be made for gluing. Basically a sheet of mdf with battens screwed on to the exact sizr of your frame, leave off the 4th side and use clamps or wedges.



Of course, I didn't think of that.

Thank you.


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

Wildman":122hw4be said:


> scarf joint



They look interesting, thanks.


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

custard":cm7oi133 said:


> If you want to avoid hand skills or machinery altogether why not just overlap them and glue, or if they need to end up in the same plane then butt joint them with a strengthening piece glued on each side to cover the butt joint. Not pretty, but with modern glues either would do the job.



Not sure what you mean by the second part? About gluing a strengthning piece?

Thanks


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

undergroundhunter":3tc56208 said:


> half lap??
> 
> matt



That'd be good bit the pieces I'm talking about wont work for that, unfortunetly.
Again, Should've mentioned they were for box sides, my apologies.

Thanks


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## Lons (1 Feb 2016)

LFS19":31juhv6q said:


> RobinBHM":31juhv6q said:
> 
> 
> > And my apologies, was meant to say but forgot - the thing I'm trying to make are the front, back and sides of a small box.
> > The bottom and top pieces are done, it's just this that I'm having trouble with.



That's completely different to how I read your first post from which I assumed to were trying to join end to end to make longer pieces. From some of the other posts I doubt I'm the only one! - Are you saying you need to join the pieces at 90 deg to form the box?
If so, if you can't tackle more technical joints then just but them or mitre and but them and they can be strengthened by gluing in some thin slivers maybe in contrasting wood to make them decorative. Not difficult. They can actually be glued using supeglue and accelerator as long as you can align them quickly and accurately. Can be bought as a mitre kit (used by kitchen fitters) if you don't have any.

Bob

EDIT: Just quickly dug this of the net in case you can't visualise


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## profchris (1 Feb 2016)

Not sure why you're rejecting a butt joint, unless the mating surfaces are end grain. 

This sound board is made from two butt jointed pieces a fraction over 1/16 inch thick and has been under continuous string tension of 40lb or so for the last three years. It should be good for 50+ more years. 







If this is a small box then surely the sides aren't bearing any load, in which case even an end grain butt joint should hold.


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

Lons":29da0rzn said:


> LFS19":29da0rzn said:
> 
> 
> > RobinBHM":29da0rzn said:
> ...



Yes, looking at my original post is seems I've confused this rather spectacularly.

What I meant was joining the pieces at 90 degrees to great a box, yes.
The reason I said joining two pieces was because that was essentially the joint I needed to make, and I was meant to follow it up with what I was actually going to use it for but I forgot to write that part for some reason :roll: 

That sounds like a good idea - how would you make the thin prices of wood?

Thanks


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## LFS19 (1 Feb 2016)

profchris":3r2riqng said:


> Not sure why you're rejecting a butt joint, unless the mating surfaces are end grain.
> 
> This sound board is made from two butt jointed pieces a fraction over 1/16 inch thick and has been under continuous string tension of 40lb or so for the last three years. It should be good for 50+ more years.
> 
> ...



I've just never heard a good thing about them, really, I'm ignorant I guess because of my experience.
Thanks for pointing that out.
The sides won't be baring any load.

Thanks


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## Kadushu (1 Feb 2016)

Have a look in the downloadable books sticky at the top of this section. There's one on joints ;-)


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## MusicMan (1 Feb 2016)

Suggest you make a shooting board, and us it to square/finish/dimension the pieces. Then it doesn't matter if the hand sawing is crappy. Plenty of threads on here on shooting boards. 

Keith


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## Lons (2 Feb 2016)

LFS19":2my3rgtl said:


> That sounds like a good idea - how would you make the thin prices of wood? Thanks



Could use thick veneer, plastic, thin ply or better slice off on your table saw or by hand a piece the thickness of the saw kerf you use to cut into the joints, just needs a light hand sanding and glue in with pva, trim off when dry.
When cutting thin slice use a thicker timber against the fence and the slice you want is the offcut on the free side of the blade, if that makes sense, easier to to than explain.

A cheap hand mitre saw might be very useful to you, they can be very accurate. This kind of thing, loads on the market to choose from. I have a Nobex I've used regularly for 30 years.


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## sunnybob (2 Feb 2016)

I make small boxes.
Among the methods I use are 45 degree mitre cut on a chop saw. But I had to spend a day "adjusting" the chop saw to give an accurate mitre because it didnt come square from the factory. And the joints are strong enough for any use the box would expect to be put to.

If its a very small box I make the mitres by using the disc sander on my 4" belt / 6"disc sanding machine with the table adjusted to 45 degrees.

I also use box joint with my trend router box joint bit on my router table. Tricky to work out the first couple of tries, but a nice consistent and quick job once youve mastered it. I make 8 sided boxes with the box joint cutter as well.

I am just about to start using my new birdmouth cutter for the next project box. Have a look at this 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hmITWrn_jo

Another tip, make the wood a few mm thicker when you start. glue it all up and after its dry sand the sides back to the thickness you want. I always work with 8mm, then when finished sand the outside down to 6mm. That allows you to remove any "amateur" errors.

OH, while I'm here. get a GOOD blade for your bandsaw, bandsaw drift is a result of a bad blade or wrong adjustment.


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## Emanuel (2 Feb 2016)

LFS19":3af769zz said:


> Wildman":3af769zz said:
> 
> 
> > scarf joint
> ...


 Yep, scarf joint could do the trick.


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## Lons (2 Feb 2016)

Emanuel":2jtmv3at said:


> Yep, scarf joint could do the trick.



No it won't!

A scarf joint is used to lengthen timber not make a 90 deg joint.


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## LFS19 (2 Feb 2016)

Kadushu":2sqca8rp said:


> Have a look in the downloadable books sticky at the top of this section. There's one on joints ;-)



I read the stickies when I joined a few months ago.
My issue is how to accomplish those joints with a small piece.

Thanks for the reply


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## LFS19 (2 Feb 2016)

MusicMan":12lj2eup said:


> Suggest you make a shooting board, and us it to square/finish/dimension the pieces. Then it doesn't matter if the hand sawing is crappy. Plenty of threads on here on shooting boards.
> 
> Keith



I don't have a shooting board so I'll look into that, thanks.


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## LFS19 (2 Feb 2016)

Lons":17p2iz8n said:


> LFS19":17p2iz8n said:
> 
> 
> > That sounds like a good idea - how would you make the thin prices of wood? Thanks
> ...




Good idea, thanks for the information.

And yes, I've thought about getting a miter saw for a while now - I think I'd do well to buy one.


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## LFS19 (2 Feb 2016)

sunnybob":1qncmzcw said:


> I make small boxes.
> Among the methods I use are 45 degree mitre cut on a chop saw. But I had to spend a day "adjusting" the chop saw to give an accurate mitre because it didnt come square from the factory. And the joints are strong enough for any use the box would expect to be put to.
> 
> If its a very small box I make the mitres by using the disc sander on my 4" belt / 6"disc sanding machine with the table adjusted to 45 degrees.
> ...



Interesting on all points, thanks.
Both a box joint cutter and these bird mouth ones you mentioned seem like a good investment.

As you mentioned you do,I may be best with a simple miter, and as others have suggested getting a miter saw.

And yes, I think perhaps a new band saw blade might be in order.
The one I'm using was my grandads and I think he had it in the garage for years, so I'm not sure what condition the balder is in.


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## Wuffles (2 Feb 2016)

Whenever I fall out of love with my band saw through drift, iffy cuts, whatever, I hark back to this excellent video I once watched. I can recommend you grab a cup of tea and watch it. 35mins long, informative and makes the point well.

https://youtu.be/wGbZqWac0jU

Oh and Diresta did a good bandsaw tips video in his "tips" series - and if you're a newbie, get a pot of tea and watch the rest of the series sometime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA4lpsEWM5k


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## sunnybob (2 Feb 2016)

I've had a steep learning curve on bandsaws this past year. Threw the first one away ( a FOX). Even tuffsaw blades couldnt make that rubbish work.
My new Axminster bandsaw again came with a rubbish blade, but I fitted an axcaliber and its unbelievable the difference.
A bandsaw that cuts well is a very useful tool.


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## ED65 (2 Feb 2016)

LFS19":3p9daza6 said:


> The only way I seem to be able to do it is a butt joint, which I know is inherently weak


Can I just confirm, are you talking about a butt joint where the end of one board will meet the face of the next? If so that's not that weak if done right, it should be more than strong enough for a small box.

But if you'd prefer some reinforcement you can add veneer keys. Although these are customary on mitre joints there's no reason you can't use them on this joint too. 

Another option, also quite decorative, is to glue in small through-dowels that go through the face of one board and into the end grain of the adjoining piece. Careful drilling is the order of the day here obviously with 1/4" material!

Third option, halving joints like these. As you can see this was reinforced with dowels as well, which is mostly for decorative effect on a box of this size as the added strength is unlikely to be needed.



LFS19":3p9daza6 said:


> Even cutting it is a job.


I think you need to get a nice fine-toothed hand saw  A good saw will leave a glue-ready end on a board. 

Then I'd use a knifed line to help cut dead straight and square, or you could cut a hair longer than needed and then shoot the end perfect using a bench hook or a shooting board.


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## LFS19 (3 Feb 2016)

Wuffles":wat7j5g7 said:


> Whenever I fall out of love with my band saw through drift, iffy cuts, whatever, I hark back to this excellent video I once watched. I can recommend you grab a cup of tea and watch it. 35mins long, informative and makes the point well.
> 
> https://youtu.be/wGbZqWac0jU
> 
> ...




Thanks for the links, they look very in depth and should be helpful.
I e come across diresta before, I think.


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## LFS19 (3 Feb 2016)

sunnybob":2xfq1igu said:


> I've had a steep learning curve on bandsaws this past year. Threw the first one away ( a FOX). Even tuffsaw blades couldnt make that rubbish work.
> My new Axminster bandsaw again came with a rubbish blade, but I fitted an axcaliber and its unbelievable the difference.
> A bandsaw that cuts well is a very useful tool.



I echo that sentiment 
I've not had much luck with mine since I got it. Hopefully I can learn to use it.


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## LFS19 (3 Feb 2016)

ED65":3ff3w87h said:


> LFS19":3ff3w87h said:
> 
> 
> > The only way I seem to be able to do it is a butt joint, which I know is inherently weak
> ...




Yes, it's true I do not actually have a hand saw other than a cheap hack saw. I could do with a proper one.

Those options look good. I particularly like the keyed one you mentioned, though if a butt joint would be fine for this application, I may just do that.

Thanks.


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## sunnybob (3 Feb 2016)

LFS19":2dt51oun said:


> sunnybob":2dt51oun said:
> 
> 
> > I've had a steep learning curve on bandsaws this past year. Threw the first one away ( a FOX). Even tuffsaw blades couldnt make that rubbish work.
> ...



Buy a good blade. If your blade is old, or came with the machine. BIN IT!!!
You cant make bandsaws work with out a good blade.
Tuff saw, or axcaliber are good. Stay away from the original suppliers stuff. I threw 4 original suppliers blades away with that Fox, smartest move I've made this year.


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## tomasg (3 Feb 2016)

Hello 
If your making small boxes or components and the like out of solid wood
It would be a good idea to get some fundamentals down 
Watch Rob Cosman make some components 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxIgNel0H_I 
Good luck
Tom


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