# The Thing in the Garage



## Richard T

I hope to keep a record here of the saw carriage I am building to run past my bandsaw. It's quite an ambitious project so I'm sure there will be lots problems, tweaks, tears, and cries for help along the way. 
It is of the sliding "knee" type that was developed in the early USA by German and Dutch settlers. In those days they usually ran past circular saws and looked like this. 

As you can see here, the knees slide in flat beds to advance the log sideways for each cut/pass. They are advanced by rack and pinion gears driven by the shaft (running from bottom right) and the whole carriage runs back and forth on rails past the blade.


----------



## wizer

Richard you need to close the IMG tags at the end of each image. like this:



Code:


[img]http://i689.photobucket.com/albums/vv257/richardtomes/sawmill20log20carriage.jpg [/IMG]


----------



## Richard T

Hmmm.. I _might_ get the hang of adding images before I finish this..

Anyway, these days you can buy a nice, sparkly new steel one like this: 




If you have $18,000. So I thought I'd have a go at my making my own for a fraction of that; hopefully not a fraction like 15/16 say...


----------



## wizer

That's it Richard.

Looks like an interesting project. I take it you have a need to process a large amount of logs?


----------



## Richard T

So far I have a timber framed garage, a bandsaw, a girder cut up into eight pieces for the beds, eight 1 1/8" bearings for the shaft, Wheels for the inside rail (flat), the aquaintence of a big, hairy bloke who can weld and mill and a head full of stuff that looks like a book of Euclid.


----------



## Richard T

I do have a lot of logs, yes; far more since I told my friend Dave about planning to build this. I think he overestimated my speed of construction - the drive is half full big lengths of various stuff. - Mostly white pine and the dreaded conifer (though I will need fence pannels next year) but some really nice stuff too; Elm, Holly, Yew, laburnum .. Yummy.


----------



## wizer

shame you're not local. Watching this with interest.


----------



## Richard T

The next thing is to get enough saved up for the rack and pinions. I've just been on the phone to a local firm who were very good and told me I only need to buy 2 rack lengths of 1m and 1 length of 500mm in order to make up 4 lengths of 60mm. 
Aparently if you put the ends that you've cut at each end and the ends they've cut meeting mid length, they line up. That's going to save me about £150.


----------



## head clansman

hi 

this i will follow with interest yummy keep it coming .hc


----------



## OPJ

This looks very interesting indeed! Can't see what model your bandsaw is but, is it man enough for that amount of resawing work?


----------



## Richard T

It's a Charnwood 750 





It has its standard 3hp motor on at the moment which is pretty good I have to say - powered through some well seasoned ash aprox 8" deep the other day. I have it set on the lower speed and the choice of blade helps (Dakin Flathers 1" Ripper) and it seems to be fine. This is much better than I expected, as those saw-travels-on-rails-log-lies-on-floor types seem to have around 45hp petrol engines.... I'll just have to see how it bears up. 
At least the motor is fully external so would be easy(ish) to plumb in a more meaty chap.


----------



## wizer

Well that's peculiar, I've been eyeing that model up.


----------



## Jake

Be better off doing it properly - in for a penny, in for a pound!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STENNER-36-SAW-CO ... 4cec0a511f


----------



## Jake

Or cut out most of the hassle and just renovate this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/STENNER-VB42-BAND ... 4cec22e8ca


----------



## Mcluma

I like that set up

nice project for the one who is buying it


----------



## Richard T

Cor! Those are big saws to see first thing in the morning. A chap we know called Mike has a huge one like that - not Stenner I don't think, it is dated 1943 and has wheels that look just like they are traction engine flywheels; they probably are. He runs it with a combine engine and you can hear it long before you get anywhere near it. 
Although the track is nice and low to lift logs on to, this is only possible as the bottom wheel is down a 5" deep pit; and so is all the sawdust. He has to keep getting down there to shovel it out. 

I wish I had some pictures of it - it has a terrifically long track on which runs a flat carriage with some dodgey simple dogs, and as in the ebay picture, just a short, flat fence. There is no way to accurately cut unless he built himself some huge modifications. 
In fact it was Mike's saw and its problems that inspired me to try to find the best way to do it albeit on a smaller scale.


----------



## Richard T

Although not as small as this one. 






Check the sawdust extractors...


----------



## Richard T

While saving up for the gears, I've been messing around with the movable dogs. 
The two main dogs have to move up and down as well as in and out and must be able to locked in any position. This has been a bit of a tall order for me and my poor brain but I have finally settled on ladder-stepping in both directions. A bit like a Carver clamp but inside out. 

This is the first dog I have made. It was a wrought iron round bar that I have drawn out in the forge, bent the hook over to take the dog tool and cold-filed ridges in the top to engage with a steel pin. 




Although it looks nice and work blackened here, I have since had to do some filing to get it dead flush with the mechanism it slides through, not as pretty as I would have liked but still has a kind of piebald charm.
This is the bar that moves horizontally. I'll post some pics of what it moves through when the girl with the camera gets home.


----------



## Simon

Seems like we have some serious equipment gloating going on, in the vain of mine is bigger than yours ........ 






It was a bit of a squeeze to get in the garage and the power does dim in the local town when we start it up! ........ :^o  


I thought whilst on the subject you may all appreciate this set of pics. They are from the Hull Oaks Sawmill in Oregon, the last steam-powered mill remaining. The scale of the place and the size of the output is awesome, would love to see it for real. 

http://www.garymkatz.com/ontheroad/hulloaks.htm

Great to see a smaller scale project coming together and will be watching with interest


----------



## Chris Knight

Here's mine, being admired by Adam - late of these parts (I wonder where he has got to incidentally?)


----------



## Richard T

erm.. yerss.. for once it's a relief to have a little one.
Anyway, here's the thing that the thing goes through with the thing that goes through it, through it. 












Yes! It's half a G cramp with holes drilled in it. 
The side plates need to have another plate fixed on to them so as the rivet heads don't interfere with the vertical sliding; I think I will use pretty brass sheet for that.
The hooked piece is about to get two holes drilled through it to take different dog tools - straight spike for bigger, lumpy, bark-still-on stuff and gentler, more padded feet for stock I don't want to put spike holes in. 
Also I will draw out the back end of the bar into a thin tang to put a wooden handle on.


----------



## bodgermatic

This is really interesting, thanks for sharing.


----------



## DavidE

Hi Richard,

Cool! - I'll be interested to see this develop. One day I fancy trying to make a WoodMizer style one where the saw moves rather than the log. I figured that was easier than trying to make a setup to move the log. This thread could change my mind though... all those Stenner heads are tempting!

Keep posting!
Cheers
David


----------



## Richard T

Thanks folks, it's very good to have interested people to share this with as I go along. It helps to sort it out in my own head too. 

David, I pondered for ages on which would be the best system for me and although I've heard good things about the woodmiser, it looks like the frame takes up a lot of room, and I don't think you can get much of a deep cut? It's been a while since I looked into them. 
I think the best sort of saw for specifically planking up big rough timber is the bandsaw mill - the saw being horizontal and traveling on rails along the length of the static log. I think that this is also the cheapest for the biggest results. 
Hopefully what I am doing is going to turn out the most versatile - I should be able to cut lengths up to 7' 6" at a depth of up to 13" and also very short, thin and light pieces. But the most important thing for me is being able to use the bandsaw just like a normal bandsaw without having to dismantle anything or add anything on. I can have a table on the throat side of the blade, and a table that fills one of the areas between two of the beds on the carriage. So the knees can all be wound back and the carriage parked with the table section on the other side of the blade for curves and cross cutting. 
_Sounds_ good huh? (Ghodd, I hope it works.)


----------



## DavidE

Hi Richard,

Err yes I've only ever seen pictures of the WoodMizers so I'm not really sure about their abilities.

I was looking the other week and have seen some designs on this site.
I fancy making something like this - it probably wouldn't be on a trailer though! 
http://www.diybandmill.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=18&Itemid=1

There are some interesting videos on YouTube too.. this one shows how simple they can be - it seems pretty effective too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub6_pACrWYw

I think your solution sounds a good way as you get the versatility and waste less space. I'll be interested how you arrange the carriage for the log. Like many things I don't have enough time and I only got really interested as I was trying to plank some sycamore on my bandsaw (reasonably successfully) and though there must be a better way!

Cheers
David


----------



## Richard T

I'm afraid that my design will waste space compared to a band mill - the biggest advantage of the band mill (apart from not having to lift the log much) is that the length of cut is as long as the rails are. 
When the log passes the saw, it can only be half the length of the rails. And with my set up this will be 7' 6". 
I can't think I've had much call for timber longer than that myself, except for timber frame beams which I have axe hewn or chainsawn or both. 
But a potential customer may want floor boards or banister rails or something awkwardly long like that I suppose, but I've been reassuring myself with the thought that I will have the ulimate bandsaw fence with a dead flat piece parked in the carriage, and I could pass any length through it - not anything like as easily, but still possible. 
Looking at the utube vid you posted above, I see that everything that I am making is present there, just in different places: there are two-way movable dogs, rails with wheels and guide wheels, a geared lowering and raising system, it's all there. So the build cost and difficulty would be about the same. That's good to realise as I had assumed that the moving saw way would be simpler too. 
I suppose it's length v versatility. 
The band mill is a sawmill and a very efficiant one. Mine is just a glorified jig really, but it is still a decent sawmill as well as being a bandsaw. (He says hopefully, not having finished it yet....) 
More photos when the photographer gets back from her mother's.


----------



## DavidE

Hi Richard,

Err yes I guess everything is always a compromise (without unlimited space and/or budget!)! I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses though as I might change my mind on approaches. As you say the beauty of the rails is the fact you can always make it longer if needs be.

Cheers
David


----------



## animatedpomegranate

I'm the lucky winner of the vb42 above. Its going to be a huge project but hopefully I can bring it back to life. Before I decided to go the route of the stenner I was seriously looking at building a horizontal bandsaw like a woodmizer. In my research I found the website www.diybandmill.com if you haven't seen it before and are interested in these sorts of things do take a look. The guys (mostly in America) are really helpful and the machines they have made are fantastic.

I'll post some reports of my progress with this saw as it comes along, in the mean time I have to calm down because I can hardly believe I won it!


----------



## jlawrence

oh to have enough space to try something like this and enough to build a kiln as well


----------



## animatedpomegranate

something tells me some of it will get into the kitchen for restoration during the cold winter nights. Seriously though I am very lucky to have a little bit of ground. I first saw one of these things working twenty odd years ago and always dreamed but never really thought it would happen. over the years I have seen these things working on some really small plots of land.....never give up hope. 6 days ago I didn't even know I'd be bidding for this and was convinced the homemade mill was the only option. Lady luck does smile sometimes


----------



## Richard T

I am now the proud owner of a set of rack and pinion gears. I need another three sets, but bought the first one on its own just in case the dimensions were unworkable and I had to change it, but it will fit fine. 
It's 40mm x 40mm rack with 9mm deep teeth. 




This will give me about 20" travel winding on to the saw which should be plenty. 
I've also drawn out the tang for the handle on the back of the first dog.




But haven't shaped or riveted the handle on yet as I won't be able to take it apart once it's riveted on. 





And here's the possition it will (sort of ) eventually be in.




You just have to imagine it is sitting in its ladder rack which I haven't started on yet.


----------



## Richard T

animatedpomegranat - how are you getting on with your new purchase? Do you need to dig a pit for that bottom wheel? How did you get it to your house? ( did you yet?) What size blade? where from? Are you going to keep it under cover? What's the track like, how are the bearings, how are you going to power it? ;Etc... 
I would love to see the progress of this - how about a thread of its own?


----------



## animatedpomegranate

hi. Still organising the delivery which will hopefully be sometime this week. I'm not sure how to do the thread thing but will look into it. I have been in touch with some woodworking magazines. They are very keen to follow progress and we are talking about the possibility of an article over the coming year. I'll let you know in due course.

As to your other questions. The saw has a 25hp 3ph motor. Although I have 3phase the wire run may be a bit on the long side from our distribution point, but i'm looking into it. I'm leaning more towards a perkins 4236 engine or the possibility of a tractor pto.

The site it is going into is an existing lean to barn which will have to have some alteration. At the moment I'm still running through the options. It does have to have pit for the bottom pulley the wheels being 42" in diameter. The saw takes a 23' blade 4 or 5" wide. Every bearing seems ok but there is renovation work to do and also safety regs to adapt.

I'm so excited about and will keep you all informed.


----------



## woodsworth

wouldn't it be easier to build a platform as big as the longest pieces you want to cut and then build a horizontal band-saw that will run along runners? 

something like this






but a little beefier. 


I've seen people make the band saws out of car tyres powered by petrol motor.


----------



## wobblycogs

I think the basic idea of the project is to be able to use the existing upright bandsaw in the shop to do the cutting to save space (I hope that's the idea anyway ). I suspect a track based bandsaw would be easier to build but that would mean two bandsaws and track storage etc. I'll be interested to see how this project turns out.


----------



## Richard T

It would be easier to build a horizontal bandsaw and I could cut twice the length of wood but I didn't fancy getting everything sqaure and straight each time with those fiddly things between the rails. 
Also I wanted to be able to use the bandsaw as normal too - curves and cross cutting. 

Things are finally moving at a pace now that Christmas, sprained ankle, snow etc are out of the way. 
By far the most amount of time on this project has been taken up by trying to save up enough extra money for the next bit - first the gears then the steel. 
My engineering buddy has lots of bits to be getting on with and I have two 15' rails to mount on a long frame and a carriage to build. 
There's not much worth photographing yet, but as soon as there is I'll post some.


----------



## Calpol

I'm loving this thread Rich T (sorry about that :roll, I've got a thing for old machinery. I'll need to post up some of my old circular saw when I remember... It's belt driven (off a thresher) which we pulled out the barn to make a useable sized space. The blade is about 2' diameter and the entire thing is made of rust but I still love it 

Somebody stopped by once to see if they could melt it down :shock:


----------



## Richard T

Good Grief it's been a long time - I've been getting milling, welding and general engineering done as I have been able to afford it and now I'm nearly there. 
All the four beds are nearly finished; the gears are in place and all the slidy parts have been machined smooth.
I've cut the two lengths of wood for the body of the carriage - that's two pieces of white pine 3"x 6" x 6'9" 
Got the rails cut to length - 15' 
Now what's left are the steel wheels - 3 flat and 3 grooved to run on the angle rail and the main shaft - drawn, bright, round bar and to get it and all the pinion gears key-wayed. 
The last thing is the advancing mechanism or setworks. 
I've decided to go with the traditional method which looks like this:





It's the bit with the ratchet around the bar like a huge revesable ratchet wrench. I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to do this as noone seems to make big ratchet wheels anymore, so I might have an awful lot of bench work to do. 
I should have photos of the beds and knees by the weekend.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Richard T":glgwtn0r said:


> Good Grief it's been a long time - I've been getting milling, welding and general engineering done as I have been able to afford it and now I'm nearly there.
> All the four beds are nearly finished; the gears are in place and all the slidy parts have been machined smooth.
> I've cut the two lengths of wood for the body of the carriage - that's two pieces of white pine 3"x 6" x 6'9"
> Got the rails cut to length - 15'
> Now what's left are the steel wheels - 3 flat and 3 grooved to run on the angle rail and the main shaft - drawn, bright, round bar and to get it and all the pinion gears key-wayed.
> The last thing is the advancing mechanism or setworks.
> I've decided to go with the traditional method which looks like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the bit with the ratchet around the bar like a huge revesable ratchet wrench. I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to do this as noone seems to make big ratchet wheels anymore, so I might have an awful lot of bench work to do.
> I should have photos of the beds and knees by the weekend.



This is possibly very silly question, as I can see why "Yes!" is a safe answer: do you need an actual ratchet?

I was wondering about a small disc brake, either from a push bike, or, possibly better, from a kart (go-cart). IIRC, both types use bowden cables and have a lot of grip. Admittedly you couldn't then use it to index for precise thicknesses, but it would lend itself to being ganged-up easily (either one for the shaft or one for each pinion). It might collect sawdust though.

I may have misunderstood where you need it though, and a disc brake may be too expensive anyway.


----------



## Richard T

Dear Eric,
I'm not sure I entirely understand the question - I had thought about disk brakes - I freely admit it; but when it comes to thinking about how to translate that to what I need compared to a ratchet and pawl. the later seems much more likley viz:




A modern setworks, albeit with complicated reversing stuff involved .... 
I just want to wind on and wind out again with the relevant old fashioned noises.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Richard T":1d5alwam said:


> I'm not sure I entirely understand the question - I had thought about disk brakes - I freely admit it; but when it comes to thinking about how to translate that to what I need compared to a ratchet and pawl. the later seems much more likley viz:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A modern setworks, albeit with complicated reversing stuff involved ....
> I just want to wind on and wind out again with the relevant old fashioned noises.



Ah, I see what you mean! Belay that then!

I thought the shaft was driven at one end, rather than half way along, so that you had a crank handle or similar and then just wanted to lock it. 

The ratchet is actually driving the shaft (if I understand you correctly), and then releasing to reset for the next log. 

In which case, can you take a different approach entirely? Would a worm gear work instead? I can see difficulties in obtaining that too, but it would even allow you to motorize the 'sideways' movement (I guess), allowing quite precise control of the thickness (although that probably isn't important). 

They're used in winches and similar lifting kit, where the thing being moved mustn't slip if power is removed. Could you use one from a vehicle winch, or possibly an old hoist? I've got some in Meccano sizes, but I don't think they'd do it!

After Googling, it looks like the winches from these people have ratchets too (and presumably clutches). 

Something like that ought to be about secondhand/scrap, somewhere. If it won't run straight on the shaft, you might be able to replace the drum with a sprocket and use a short length of Reynolds (or sommat) to couple it to the main shaft.

I just want my time on Scrapheap Challenge!


----------



## TEO

Hey Richard,
I'm loving this thread, how are you getting on, any pictures of the pile of bits would be very welcome.
Same to animatedpomegranate, how are you doing?
Hats off to you both for getting stuck in.
Cheers,
T


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Teo for the encouragement - am due to check on the pile of bits tommorow. Hopefully they will have been transformed into some nifty working parts.
Eric. was going with a worm arangement from the start, but if one thing this project has taught me, is that a simple worm gear arrangement costs half as much as a brand new bandsaw. So.... ratchet it is - maybe with a disk brake lock. - Looking forward to this part; Scrapheap Challenge central - going to make this bit myself with spare flange bearings, a surplus timer belt wheel and a liberal sprinkling of jiggerypokery. (He said like he knew what he was doing.)


----------



## Richard T

I just rang my engineering buddy and he's had to go to something called "work" this week, so I won't have those finished bits til next week now. 
It's been like this all along - weeks turn into months, cash turns into nothing .... 
Still, I've just been and bought a taper bush for the rachet wheel that will fit onto the 1 1/8" shaft. Over the weekend I can get on with making the double pawl. I'll try to get some photos.


----------



## Richard T

I will soon have to drill the bolt holes into the two lengths of the carriage body to bolt on the steel beds. 
Anyone have any bright ideas about the best way to drill dead square to the wood? It's 6" through so I can't get it anywhere near a drill press.
I have vague memories of seeing people using hand held thingies with monsterous jigs on ... if I knew what they were called I could feel less of a nana asking about such at hire shops. Any ideas?


----------



## wobblycogs

I've never used one but I think a drill guide is probably what you want: http://www.rutlands.co.uk/hand-tool...l-stands-&-guides/DKZ22/precision-drill-guide

I saw one used on an american woodworking show a while back and it seemed to work really well.


----------



## Eric The Viking

Richard T":yqmio0og said:


> I will soon have to drill the bolt holes into the two lengths of the carriage body to bolt on the steel beds.
> Anyone have any bright ideas about the best way to drill dead square to the wood? It's 6" through so I can't get it anywhere near a drill press.
> I have vague memories of seeing people using hand held thingies with monsterous jigs on ... if I knew what they were called I could feel less of a nana asking about such at hire shops. Any ideas?



My drill jig is broadly similar to this:







It has a major disadvantage in that the clamp (for the cylindrical collar of the drill) has too much movement, allowing it to move off square. The guides are nylon, also introducing some slop. Note mine isn't a Wolfcraft one, but it's very similar.

This sort might be better... because the spindle is securely held (click for the pic - it's too big for the page, hence the link).

Otherwise, can't you improvise a guide, with the thickest block of wood you _can_ fit in the drill press, and clamp that where you want the hole. If you mark crosshairs on the 'guide', before you drill it, going up the sides, you can use those for alignment on the actual workpiece.

HTH,

E.

PS: @mods: is there a way to scale down a preexisting image. I've supposedly got HTML enabled, but the usual _height="Npx"_ etc. attributes don't work in the {img} block. Is there a way to embed 'raw' HTML?


----------



## xy mosian

If your drill press will handle 3". How about approaching the job from both ends? Or if the hole is not complete, start at both ends and finish by hand using the part holes as guides.

xy


----------



## OPJ

Eric The Viking":1pf5h3m6 said:


> My drill jig is broadly similar to this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has a major disadvantage in that the clamp (for the cylindrical collar of the drill) has too much movement, allowing it to move off square. The guides are nylon, also introducing some slop. Note mine isn't a Wolfcraft one, but it's very similar.
> 
> This sort might be better... because the spindle is securely held (click for the pic - it's too big for the page, hence the link).



I have the Wolfcraft jig and, unfortunately, is does suffer from the same problem, if you're not careful. I think it helps to pay attention to the start of a cut, whenever doing something like this - the bit isn't cutting dead square to the face unless you can see it 'creating a circle'... Hope that makes sense!  From then on, you just need to keep it steady without forcing the bit; let the tools do the work for you. It's only when you try to put too much pressure on that the jig's shortcoming become apparent.

Or, depending on the maximum plunge/stroke depth on these, you might be better off with a drill stand, like this.


----------



## Crooked Tree

I have heard of "mag mount" drills being used on steel work. These attach to the steel with magnets and have the drill on a slide which is held by the magnets at 90 deg. to the steel. Perhaps something like that could be used - I gather that you are drilling wood, but perhaps the drill base could just rest on the wood? Not sure if it would be stable enough and never used one myself, though.

The idea of drilling a block on the pillar drill and then using it as a guide sounds good. I have used it on a much smaller scale to guide a tap on occasion.


----------



## Richard T

Evening Folks, ... bit of an update - only 18 months or so later .... :roll: 

The continuing saga of the thing in the garage continues. During my absence from this thread I've changed plans a lot, spent loads of money I didn't need to and given up on several occasions. 
Though now, I have finally got to a point with it from which the end is in sight so I feel an update is in order.

Some months ago I built the track and got the carriage together:






And after gradually doing bits and pieces it has come together in the last week or so.
I took advantage of the good weather last weekend to finally get the drive bar measured, drilled and fitted:






I decided that the best way to do the drilling was to bring the drill press to it rather than vice versa and use the carriage itself as a bench.











This was a bit of a pig, not to put too fine a point on it. I had no knuckles left but it went together better than expected in the end. Here is a shot of the knuckle - stripping dark interior: 





And there were four of those. Notice I haven't been able to face putting the lower bolts in yet ...

If you recall, back in the mists of this thread, I had been messing about with a universal dog (steady) and came up with this thing, borrowing heavily from the Carver clamp idea:






I needed another one so I set about forging a new dog, then realised that if I made another two, I could clamp them together back to back and drill through where they met, leaving half holes in each and save myself filing all the pineapples. So I have two new ones, much better made and proportioned than the first (which I drew out of a round bar). The new ones are 1/2" x 1" and much sturdier. So I got thinking that a quick lock and release might be possible - something like a hand brake .... four full days later, after much swearing and despairing, I have something that works though could be much better:






Above is testing without its spring. The notches on the ratchet could be closer together and both ratchet and pawl could do with being made from gage plate and hardened ... but this is, yet again, a prototype.
Still, it worked. So I had finally got two working dogs ... I had to give it a try. 

I had had a surprise free load of Sycamore arrive a few days ago so I had something green to go at.






A 3' length across the mid beds and I gave it a gentle push:






Hooray! It's straight and it's square. 






All this without anything being finished - the rail is not fixed, the dog mechanism is only half there .. etc .. so a promising first go. The only thing I am worried about now is the power and general umph of the saw. Even though I was going very gently I feel it was just about at its limit. Still, lots more to do and wood to test.


----------



## James C

Very impressive. I really enjoyed reading through this thread, it was very interesting. I also had the added benefit of the seeing the almost end result straight away.

How big is your to do log pile?


----------



## Richard T

Hi James 

Almost finished it isn't I'm afraid ... this was just the first time I could actually test it. there's all sorts of fun to come with squaring up, putting big bolts into concrete, on board brushes, major dust extraction .... etc.

I have been saving quite a few bits into the to do pile(s) but I fear some of it may have suffered during its long wait out in the elements.


----------



## toolsntat

Well done Richard =D> 

Like your can-do attitude 8) 8) 

Cheers
Andy


----------



## Chems

Wow, impressive, I thought you had given up! That blade on your bandsaw looks to be a fairly standard blade, for this sort of roughing isn't there a blade with less teeth you can use to help it through the wood?


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Andy 

"can do" has been "might do" for far too long.  

Chems - if only it were a standard blade, I could change it for a whizzo one by Dakin Flathers. Unfortunately ... it's a whizzo one by Dakin Flathers. Ripper blade; 3tpi. Like is used on band mills. 
I suppose there are plenty of options for upping the cutting power - getting cast iron wheels, getting a cast iron saw, getting three phase and a huge motor, driving it with the landRover etc. (if I still had a series 3, I would - pto shaft srtaight out of the front bumper ... :wink: )


----------



## kostello

fantastic................

clever man............


----------



## Richard T

Started to have a proper play today - big lump of conifer: 






Two sides off. This is much easier to cut than the Sycamore 






And squared up. 






Cut through at the pith






and the larger side planked into 5/8" boards for 1/2" ... pseudo quarter sawn.I've marked them out on the wood - must get a calibrated system on the back bed so I can measure as I go.


----------



## kirkpoore1

Cool. A nice little mini-mill.

Kirk


----------



## adidat

fantastic, the pieces you cut off to get the square edge boards are they of any use? or is it just the fact that they are crappy softwood thus being a bit useless?


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Kirk, it's in the American style - but without the circular saw and the steam engines.  

Adidat - Yeah, it's sap wood and not much use for anything other than firewood. Some might argue the same about all of it, being conifer. :lol:


----------



## houtslager

Damn you sir !

highly jealous of you, saw simerler set ups in the Greek islands although the bandsaws were put in the ground with the rail along side.

Karl


----------



## Noggsy

Excellent work Richard and a very enjoyable thread. It's great to see people having the get up and go and skills to do this kind of thing, well done mate.


----------



## AndyT

This is looking so impressive and such fun! You could make your own lock gates!

Seriously though, having your own sawmill, and being the sort of person who gets a vanload of sycamore just 'arriving' looks a succesful combination.
You'll be needing something to plane that lot with though - how's your other project coming along?


----------



## Richard T

Thanks folks. 

Andy T wrote: "You could make your own lock gates!" or .... a wood store 8) other wise where am I going to put it all?  

Got on a bit today. As seen in the bootsale thread in the General Dpt, I found this ratchet lever that is (was) a big old die holder.







I took it apart and thought the best way to attach it would be to drill through the belt - drive wheel that I have that fits the bar and bolt into these existing holes in the ratchet lever.






I had a long rummage through my large 'selection' of bolts to try to find some the right width, thread and pitch but long enough to do the job. I found some which may give you an idea of the size of the bolt 'situation'. :shock: 

Much later after much drilling and filing ( there was no way I could have lined those holes up first go) and it is on.






The ratchet reverser is a bit of a fiddle but I'm very pleased with it. 






The knurled disk in the gap has to be lifted and turned 180 and let down again to change the ratchet direction.
I just wish it wasn't too late tonight to give it a whirl with some wood on. Will have to wait 'til tomorrow and dream of sawdust in the meantime.


----------



## jimi43

Had it not been for the bootfair thread I would have missed this masterpiece Richard!! 

Absolutely astounding! =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

You must use that old plate from the die holders somewhere mate...it is so cool! 8) 

I think I shall have to venture north of Watford one day to check this little gem out.....a bit disappointed though...from the very first picture I thought you had the whole thing running from a traction engine for the moment there! Now that would be worth a visit!!! :mrgreen: :wink: 

Will watch this with growing interest...and must read it all again! Fantastic stuff mate!

Jim


----------



## Mcluma

I can still remember the first post back in 2009. I even posted on that one.

now 3 years later. its getting there. and it looks very well made. very sturdy and the result is very nice. i'm very jealouse of what you have created there - although not finished, what is there is very nice.

keep posting any updates you done


----------



## Richard T

Thanks Chris .... 3 years. Blooming 'eck. 

Not a steam engine Jim, no ..... but you're very welcome to come and have a look any time. 

I made some brackets during the last holdfast forging session and put two of the brushes on:





on back wheel and 





on the mid wheel.
I had to plane the tops of these brushes flat - pity really, they looked tres eccentric when they were more obviously domestic clothes brushes. Now they are clothes brushes with the tops planed off ... still quite H. Robinson I 'spose.

I've decide to give up on the ratchet operated dog and to make another screw thread one. This has been tricky though as I have not been able to find a G clamp the same as the first - I've only been looking for three years :roll: 
So I ended up chopping a wingnut type, drilling a 6mm hole through the threaded bar - and the inside of the wing nut back on as a collar for strength.










They are both 12 tpi but this bar is narrower than the other one so they will be uneven to use .... but not anything like as uneven as the screw and the ratchet together.

Sorry to ignore the bit about the planes Andy - more on those soon.


----------



## Richard T

I've been in the forge again, this time making a scrap holdfast into something else - a buffer.






Also some more brackets for brushes to try two; one on either side of the wheel:






And with it set up thus, yesterday we converted a couple of these - (7'6" conifer poles)






- into these; strips and frame bits for fence panels.








I just cut them by eye but not directly ...as there is still too much stuff up the front end for me to get in a position to reach the lever so Mrs. Doyle had to watch my gestures and move it from the other side. I don't think they're too bad considering. 






Although one was a bit skinny. 






The only failure I've had so far is this banana of a piece of Wych Elm I cut straight with a chainsaw about four years ago and attempted to re - saw =






You see where the cut veers off line ... twice ... at this point there was a whisp of smoke and the blade took off toward the carriage. I backed up and tried again; same thing. A pity, as the rest of that batch I managed to re - saw without a hitch.


----------



## Mcluma

did you feed it to quickly??


----------



## Richard T

Mcluma wrote: "did you feed it to quickly??"

No Chris, very slowly. You can't whiz Elm through like you can conifer. I think there must be something strange going on with tension at that point. That whole batch of Wych Elm was a big bough - hence its moving so much - I'm surprised the rest re - cut as well as it did.


----------



## Mcluma

Richard,

For the next one you build, make use of haevy angle iron for our tracks, so no debris will stick on (this would have made your brushes obsolete.

You could have used the gear of a sliding gate, It would have brought some of your cost down, and they are easiliy to source

What are your noise levels like? I noticed that you are in a normal residential area, - no issues with the neighbours?


----------



## Richard T

This would seem the way to go wouldn't it? Both angled rails. Yet all the photos, drawings and patent ap.s I've seen are like I have built; angled guide rail and flat load bearing rail - with brushes. And, to be honest, I don't know why. I thought I'd better do it that way as it seems tried and tested in the hope that the reason would become apparent in use. All that I can think is squaring to the blade is easier. That and it was very much cheaper to have three grooved wheels made than six. 

The next one??? :lol: The gear of a sliding gate.... I did look into all sorts of things I might be able to salvage gears from, agricultural mostly, but where could I get four the same from? I looked at doing it with chains at one point, double vice style but finally settled on buying rack and pinions which weren't that much in the end, after shopping around.

It's a lot quieter than if I had done it with a circular saw - just normal bandsaw noise. The neighbours are very good. They put up with an awful lot from me what with that, chainsawing, the forge, swearing, etc.. But I have done things for them with it ... so they can't complain too much ... I hope.


----------



## jimi43

If they get too objectionable Richard...you can always turn them into pies! :mrgreen: 

On the subject of the wych elm....that bit you turned into longbows....if you are going to chuck it I would be interested in buying some off of you. Wych elm is one of my most favourite of handle materials...as you know. The lump on the bottom before deviation to the right would be ideal for a few of them.

Let me know and maybe we can come to a deal before the meeting in Northamptonshire.

Cheers mate

Jim


----------



## JakeS

Richard T":35jzea5c said:


> I thought I'd better do it that way as it seems tried and tested in the hope that the reason would become apparent in use. All that I can think is squaring to the blade is easier.



The first thing that comes to mind is that if both rails were angled, you'd also need them to be _perfectly_ parallel, or the wheels would ride up them as they converged/diverged away from the width the wheels are set at, which would more than likely alter the angle of the cut. With a flat load-bearing rail, you can have small discrepancies in your frame and all that happens is that the wheel rides slightly closer to the edge at one end of the run than the other.

You could perhaps allow for problems by allowing one of the angle rails to slide sideways perpendicular to the direction of travel, so you square and fix one side and leave the other side free, or allowing the same for the wheels... but the brushes are easier to set up by far than that or perfectly-parallel rails.


----------



## Richard T

Dammit Jim - in the last half hour I have cut some plane peining apparatus out of it #-o but there is still some usable left and I probably have more lying around. I was saving all my remaining Elm for the long awaited draining board project but top man Gil brought me this slab of green Elm over last week:






Which is a draining board and a half I should think so I'll bring some good bits of the wych for you.
I have some (lots) crotch Sycamore that I cut out of the last load that should make some interesting handles too but it will be a bit green still next month ... 


Jake: Exactly. :wink:


----------



## jimi43

Cheers Richard...that is most kind of you! I will need to think of something useful to you in exchange.

Jim


----------



## gregmcateer

Richard,

Weyhey!!

I have just come across this thread and gone right back to the beginning and followed it all the way through - Congratulations - Absolutely brilliant. =D> =D> =D> 

I love it and please, please can I come and see it in use sometime? (I too am in the Wet Midlands, (Stourbridge). 

Cheers,

Greg


----------



## Richard T

'course you can Greg. I'm in Olton which might be a bit of a trek for you ... Just pop me a PM if you think of a time/date and I'll tell you if I'm in or not - I usually am.


----------



## BelgianPhil

I was lucky enough to see the thing in the garage when it was just a collection of things in the garage, the workshop, the house, ... and i am very glad that it cuts elms and conifers and all that woody stuff. But what we really want to know is: will it slice James Bond or mother-in-laws? :roll:


----------



## Richard T

Yes Phil, it looks a bit different from when you were here. It was all theories and assumptions then. 

Re James Bond - one thing I've learnt from all those films is that when I get him in there, and he says something like " do you exshpect me to take thish shieriously?" and I say "No Mr. Bond , I exshp .., er, expect you to die". Not to then leave him to it, and begger off with me cat, as he always seems to get out of it.


----------



## kirkpoore1

Richard T":2d3di0e9 said:


> Yes Phil, it looks a bit different from when you were here. It was all theories and assumptions then.
> 
> Re James Bond - one thing I've learnt from all those films is that when I get him in there, and he says something like " do you exshpect me to take thish shieriously?" and I say "No Mr. Bond , I exshp .., er, expect you to die". Not to then leave him to it, and begger off with me cat, as he always seems to get out of it.



Evil Overlord List


> 125. Should I actually decide to kill the hero in an elaborate escape-proof deathtrap room (water filling up, sand pouring down, walls converging, etc.) I will not leave him alone five-to-ten minutes prior to "imminent" death, but will instead (finding a vantage point or monitoring camera) stick around and enjoy watching my adversary's demise.



I'm just sayin'...

Kirk


----------



## gregmcateer

A big thanks to Richard for showing me 'The Thing' in action - It's great to watch and it really is a feat of engineering.
Had a really nice time seeing all the amazing things Richard does.

Perhaps you should start doing workshop tours, Richard?

Cheers

Greg


----------



## Richard T

A pleasure to show you round Greg. Though I think tours would have elf and safety having kittens ... remember the ballistic push - stick incident?


----------



## gregmcateer

Richard T":swsmmml3 said:


> A pleasure to show you round Greg. Though I think tours would have elf and safety having kittens ... remember the ballistic push - stick incident?



I do - I thought that was part of the show =D> =D> 

Though must be worth offering cutting service - work out your price and let us all know - There'll be a queue round the block if you holdfasts are anything to go by!


----------

