# Attempt to make double dovetails and cornerpost



## motownmartin (29 Oct 2007)

After spending loads of money setting up my workshop, I thought it was about time I attempted to make some snazzy little joints.

After watching the instructional DVD, I thought I would attempt a Double Dovetail with a cornerpost :shock: well, they make it look so easy on the DVD, they don't show you how to do this one so I have to make it up as I go along :? 

This is the joint I want to do







Ooooooooerrrrrrrrr

I shall post some more in a bit, just going to sort out some WIP pics


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## Fecn (29 Oct 2007)

Ooooh.. I like those. Can't wait to see how you do them.


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## motownmartin (29 Oct 2007)

I need 2 contrasting woods, Black Walnut and Maple would be perfect but beggars can't be choosers so Sapele and Ash will have to do, besides,I have some under my bench.

The first job was to re-saw, I need 3/8" or 10mm

Here we go, didn't quite have enough tension on the Blade, it wandered about 5mm






A fair bit of planing and thicknessing to do










Thats it, 10mm and a few rough bits, but for this it's not too important, now to cut it to size using my new Miter 1000






I have glued some strips together to make the top and Base






Now to the router table, first thing is to centre the jig like so






If you don't get this right it can trash your whole job, not too difficult with this set up, the Woodpecker plate has dimensions marked out, so we move the fence to the centreline, set the jig on the zero, now we know that zero is the centre of the cutter, now we measure the width of the board and move the fence back half the width of the board so the cutter should be in the centre of the board.

Now we are ready to cut the boards, there are 4 different cuts, I think :-k 
we shall call them A, B, C & D, the first cut is for the tails, cut A.

You have to put a template in the jig, in this template the A cuts are like this, cut 2 together so you get a large tail, hopefully this will become apparent later on 8-[ 

The A cuts






The B cuts are cut lengthways down a board then cut off in strips Like so






Then they are glued in position






Well thats as far as I can go for now, I have to go and work out how to do the C & D cuts :? :? :? :? :?


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## motownmartin (29 Oct 2007)

Fecn":34vru8uk said:


> Ooooh.. I like those. Can't wait to see how you do them.



We might not see how we do them. but we'll have a good go :lol:


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## Mike.C (29 Oct 2007)

Nice one Martin, I cannot wait to see the outcome.

Cheers

Mike


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## Slim (29 Oct 2007)

I've been meaning to try one of those joints on th Leigh jig. It will be interesting to see how easy it us with the incra. 

Watching with baited breath!


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## gidon (29 Oct 2007)

Martin - nice to see someone try this joint!
I always wanted to try it when I got my Incra but have never got around to it. And even though I've looked through the instructions on how to do it I still can't quite remember how it's done!!
Keep the pics coming.
Cheers
Gidon


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## motownmartin (29 Oct 2007)

I'm bloomin nervous now, don't hold your breath :lol:


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## OneThou (30 Oct 2007)

Is that the Woodpecker 1/4" alum router plate you have?
How do you like it?
Nice and flat, good insert ring system?
I've been considering one.....

Thanks


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

OneThou":31gcntdq said:


> Is that the Woodpecker 1/4" alum router plate you have?
> How do you like it?
> Nice and flat, good insert ring system?
> I've been considering one.....
> ...



Yes it is OneThou, I think it was well worth the extra few Dollars, the levelling screws are the best feature, the insert rings lock in wonderfully and have not noticed any unflatness.


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## Waka (30 Oct 2007)

Well I am impressed, please keep the pic's coming.


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

Back in the workshop this morning to cut the tails again (cut C)

Before I do this I have to cut 1.1mm off the ends of the boards then cut a Rabbet or Rebate on 2 of the boards, either the 2 ends or the 2 sides, it doesn't matter which.

Trimming the boards






Cutting the rebate






The boards are now ready for the C cuts






Away we go






Oh no, nothing ever goes to plan, i've learnt a few things today, some of the edges broke off, in future I must be careful and make the board width to suit the cut, if you know what I mean :roll: 






Another thing or two learnt was to mark the boards so we can cut from the same datum, also to make sure that all chippings and sawdust gets removed from the work area, if not you end up with this






I suppose that was me getting to cocky  Still, it's a learning curve.

The next operation is to make the corner posts, for this we do the 'D' cuts, this done the same as the 'B' cuts only in a different position.






Then we cut it into 10mm strips






Then glue them in place






We have to wait for the glue to dry before we can cut the other 'D' cuts


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

The glues dry enough for me to carry on and finish the joint.

First we do the final cuts, the same cuts as if we were doing Half Blind Dovetail






Then finally we can assemble the four sides together and glue up










It doesn't look too bad from a distance :lol: a good clean up and it won't look bad.

To be honest, I wouldn't let this pass and i would start again and practice what I have learnt.

What I need to do is learn how to draw using sketch-up, which will help me get the proportions right.

I hope this has been helpful to somebody, if there is anybody out there that has done this joint with the incra or jointech maybe they could write up a few tips.


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## Fecn (30 Oct 2007)

That really does make a very nice looking joint. Thanks for taking the time to do the pics and write-up.


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## Mike.C (30 Oct 2007)

Well done Martin. Alright I cannot see it as close up as you, but to me it doesn't look too bad. As fecn says thanks for taking the time to show us.

Cheers

Mike


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

Mike.C":1ht4yhfe said:


> Well done Martin. Alright I cannot see it as close up as you, but to me it doesn't look too bad. As fecn says thanks for taking the time to show us.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mike



My pleasure Mike & fecn, I just like sharing my experiences with like minded folk.


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## ByronBlack (30 Oct 2007)

Good job with the tutorial and write-up martin, we can certainly do with more of these, I've always wondered how these joints were done. I really don't like the joints personally, but it's great to see how it's done. I'm very tempted by the Ultra lite (not for these particular joints, just the precision) and I think you've given me a good reason to pick one up.


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

ByronBlack":2euts1en said:


> Good job with the tutorial and write-up martin, we can certainly do with more of these, I've always wondered how these joints were done. I really don't like the joints personally, but it's great to see how it's done. I'm very tempted by the Ultra lite (not for these particular joints, just the precision) and I think you've given me a good reason to pick one up.



Hi Byron, these joints are purely for decoration and there is a lot of variation, they are certainly not a strong joint.

Glad you enjoyed the tutorial and I can reccomend the positioner very highly, go for it.

Imight look at doing a hefty dovetail joint tomorrow


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## herdsman (30 Oct 2007)

Brilliant effort Martin and thanks for sharing the pitfalls with us, personally I would put a top and bottom on it and use it in the workshop. I look forward to the next attempt.

Paul


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## Woodmagnet (30 Oct 2007)

Nice job (and thread) Martin,cheers. :wink:


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## TonyW (30 Oct 2007)

Very interesting thread Martin. I think that it was a brilliant first effort and the fact that you are prepared to share your trials and tribulations fantastic.

Bet the next ones turn out better than the first one shown in your post

Cheers  
Tony


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

herdsman":2nwenelp said:


> Brilliant effort Martin and thanks for sharing the pitfalls with us, personally I would put a top and bottom on it and use it in the workshop. I look forward to the next attempt.
> 
> Paul



Think i'll do that Paul ccasion5:


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

TonyW":pu8j13x4 said:


> Very interesting thread Martin. I think that it was a brilliant first effort and the fact that you are prepared to share your trials and tribulations fantastic.
> 
> Bet the next ones turn out better than the first one shown in your post
> 
> ...


Thanks Tony

In my younger years I would have tried to hide my mistakes, but that way you don't learn a lot, on the other hand if you say 'I cocked up' the likelihood is that someone else will say 'maybe you should have done it like this' which is most probably going to be beneficial to myself and any other readers, it's all about comunication  

If the next ones don't turn out better I shall change my Hobby :lol:


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## woodbloke (30 Oct 2007)

Martin - really excellent thread. You could alway do them by hand next time :lol: ....would someone please pass me my coat, rapidly  - Rob


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

woodbloke":b88k5omh said:


> Martin - really excellent thread. You could alway do them by hand next time :lol: ....would someone please pass me my coat, rapidly  - Rob


Think I'll have to wait till i'm retired before I start doing silly things like that :lol:


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## tnimble (30 Oct 2007)

Thank you for sharing you exploring art joints. 

The end result doesn't look too bad. Esp for a first attempt of such a complex joint.


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## mickster (30 Oct 2007)

I'll also give thanks for you sharing that, Martin.

As herdsman said, maybe you could trim the damaged bits off, finish it off & use it in the shop.

I've just started turning and made one of the worst bowls you could imagine...but Mother loves it.


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

mickster":2076tfn6 said:


> I'll also give thanks for you sharing that, Martin.
> 
> As herdsman said, maybe you could trim the damaged bits off, finish it off & use it in the shop.
> 
> I've just started turning and made one of the worst bowls you could imagine...but Mother loves it.



I wish my Mum was like that, she wants a jewellry box with inlays and curves and anything else you can mention, I told her that I need a Lathe, thinking she'll get me one for Chrimbo, she says that I haven't got room for one :lol: 

I will finish it and perhaps fill it with chisels, yes turning chisel just waiting for my lathe :roll: 


Thanks to everyone for your kind feedback & comments.


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## lucky9cat (30 Oct 2007)

Thanks for that, Martin. It's amazing, you can spend hours with a manual trying to understand something like that and still go away scratching your head. I managed to follow your tutorial!  

It's great that you shared it as you were going along - very brave.

Cheers, Ted


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

lucky9cat":1chi3wv9 said:


> Thanks for that, Martin. It's amazing, you can spend hours with a manual trying to understand something like that and still go away scratching your head. I managed to follow your tutorial!
> 
> It's great that you shared it as you were going along - very brave.
> 
> Cheers, Ted



Thanks Ted, are you sure that you could follow this, i'm a man of few words and try to keep it simple.

I don't know about the brave description  a better word might be stupid :lol: the thing is if it has helped somebody then all well and good


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## Slim (30 Oct 2007)

I think that turned out very well for a first attempt Martin. You will certainly know what not to do on your second go.

It is a very attractive joint. I can't see why you would say it was not a strong joint?

What other joints can be done with the Incra?


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

Slimjim81":2cofl5a4 said:


> I think that turned out very well for a first attempt Martin. You will certainly know what not to do on your second go.
> 
> It is a very attractive joint. I can't see why you would say it was not a strong joint?
> 
> What other joints can be done with the Incra?



Hi Simon, I reckon it might be strong if it was made a little better :lol: 

The joints I can do with the incra are Box joints, Half Blind Dovetails, Through Dovetails then are the Double-Double like this one and Box and finally the Double Half Blind, on top of that there are variations such as the Eagletail, cornerpost Eagletail, Double-Double through Dovetail and the Boxtail.

Thanks for the feedback


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## Slim (30 Oct 2007)

What!... You mean it can't do a double double double double double double double double double triple double double double cornerpost dovetail? Pah! :wink: 

Whats an eagletail look like?


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## ByronBlack (30 Oct 2007)

Slimjim81":3aja72rr said:


> Whats an eagletail look like?



Like the tail of a bird of prey :wink: :wink:


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## Slim (30 Oct 2007)

ByronBlack":2b6jxxo6 said:


> Slimjim81":2b6jxxo6 said:
> 
> 
> > Whats an eagletail look like?
> ...


 :roll: :wink:


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## ByronBlack (30 Oct 2007)

Slimjim81":da6ce7q3 said:


> ByronBlack":da6ce7q3 said:
> 
> 
> > Slimjim81":da6ce7q3 said:
> ...







:lol:


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## Slim (30 Oct 2007)

I'd like to see you cut pins for that Byron. :roll:


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

Slimjim81":3358vvkq said:


> What!... You mean it can't do a double double double double double double double double double triple double double double cornerpost dovetail? Pah! :wink:
> 
> Whats an eagletail look like?


An Eagletail is done as a corner post with a box on one face and a dovetail on another.


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## motownmartin (30 Oct 2007)

ByronBlack":2zbnpjs9 said:


> Slimjim81":2zbnpjs9 said:
> 
> 
> > ByronBlack":2zbnpjs9 said:
> ...



:lol: :lol: :lol: You Gonk :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Slim (31 Oct 2007)

Like this?


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## OneThou (31 Oct 2007)

Great thread Martin, lots of good discussion.
Simon, thats nice work there.....
Heres a box joint, bloodwood and maple.

Cheers
Joe


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## herdsman (31 Oct 2007)

Impressive stuff onethou


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## Slim (31 Oct 2007)

OneThou":1fdm6p46 said:


> Simon, thats nice work there.....



Wish it was my work Joe, but its not. I just borrowed that picture from the web to see if I had the right idea about the eagletail joint.

Yours is very impressive though.


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## Corset (31 Oct 2007)

Really cool looking joint. Thankyou for taking the time to post that. I ahve just bought a leigh jig and I intend to have a weekend of trial and error before i start on my next project. Thise joints have always interested me.
Owen


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2007)

OneThou":2zpagnvs said:


> Great thread Martin, lots of good discussion.
> Simon, thats nice work there.....
> Heres a box joint, bloodwood and maple.
> 
> ...



Thats nice and neat Joe, you never know one day


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## Anonymous (31 Oct 2007)

Lovely job Martin =D> =D> 

Now I've owned my Incra for nearly 3 years, I guess I should try something like that


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2007)

Thought that I would finish the box today, quite pleased with the outcome, so I done some pics.

Without a finish










With one coat of danish oil


















Close up of joint, a bit out of focus.

I ended up rounding off the corners and the interesting thing about that is the more I took off, the thinner the cornerpost got, I could have sanded it until the Sapele post dissapears and leaves a Sapele spline.


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## TonyW (31 Oct 2007)

motownmartin":tll281yi said:


> ..... quite pleased with the outcome


And so you should be - great job Martin.

Cheers  
Tony


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## Slim (31 Oct 2007)

Thats turned out really well Martin. I love the contrast. congrats =D>


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2007)

Tony":3fn6im14 said:


> Lovely job Martin =D> =D>
> 
> Now I've owned my Incra for nearly 3 years, I guess I should try something like that



C'mon Tony, you are letting the side down, if you haven't done one by Christmas i'll be round to sort you out, and i'll confiscate the Incra :lol:


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## mickster (31 Oct 2007)

:shock: Absolutely striking Martin. Would've been a travesty to have not finished it.


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2007)

mickster":3tosc8ki said:


> :shock: Absolutely striking Martin. Would've been a travesty to have not finished it.


I did listen to you and herdsman yesterday and glad I did.

I think the camera has done it proud though


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## herdsman (31 Oct 2007)

Fantastic Martin, I hope my first attempt at something like this looks as good...very well done.

Paul


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## motownmartin (31 Oct 2007)

herdsman":10l6d2zt said:


> Fantastic Martin, I hope my first attempt at something like this looks as good...very well done.
> 
> Paul


I'm sure it will Paul, just bookmark this thread to remind yourself of the mistakes that I made and it will turn out better.

I don't know whether i'm going to use it for my chiels or not  

Thanks for everyones replies, it all helps my confidence with my woodworking adventures.


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## mickster (31 Oct 2007)

motownmartin":2i8de006 said:


> I don't know whether i'm going to use it for my chisels or not



Send it to me, I'd be more than happy to put my chisels in it.


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## Fecn (1 Nov 2007)

That turned out looking really good - Very good for a trial run 

What are you going to keep in there?


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## houtslager (1 Nov 2007)

love it, I reckon if you did take a little more off it would look even better, but that's jut my own taste.

I thinkn I might try that joint on some boxes myself later 

HS


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## gidon (1 Nov 2007)

Well done Martin - yep definately time to dust of my Inrcra RH fence!
Cheers
Gidon


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## ByronBlack (1 Nov 2007)

This thread should have be called 'The re-awakening of the incra masses'


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## motownmartin (1 Nov 2007)

Fecn":28o3q99n said:


> That turned out looking really good - Very good for a trial run
> 
> What are you going to keep in there?



Probably my turning chisels  

My Daughter said 'Dad, are we all going to get a box for Christmas' :lol:


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## motownmartin (1 Nov 2007)

houtslager":31pwfllf said:


> love it, I reckon if you did take a little more off it would look even better, but that's jut my own taste.
> 
> I thinkn I might try that joint on some boxes myself later
> 
> HS



Make sure you post a pic or 2


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## motownmartin (1 Nov 2007)

ByronBlack":1km0h7i1 said:


> This thread should have be called 'The re-awakening of the incra masses'



:lol: Like it :lol: 

It will be good, we can learn off each other


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## Corset (1 Nov 2007)

Really very nice that. I have to say i am quite taken by that joint. 
Owen


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## NeilO (2 Nov 2007)

very impressed Martin, really nice looking box.....

and thanks for the reminder, datum lines and sawdust doesnt help for an accurate fit :lol: 

and thanks for showing the steps to making it, step by step , as it where...


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## devonwoody (3 Nov 2007)

Sorry I missed your thread owing to the pressures of reloading my PC at the beginning of the week.

But now its finished I still congratulate you on taking on a complicated project as a WIP.


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## motownmartin (3 Nov 2007)

devonwoody":1mjt7gsw said:


> Sorry I missed your thread owing to the pressures of reloading my PC at the beginning of the week.
> 
> But now its finished I still congratulate you on taking on a complicated project as a WIP.


Thanks John, it was very scary, I had visions of not being able to do it, I would have looked an even bigger Gonk :lol:


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## Woodmagnet (3 Nov 2007)

Well done Martin, an excellent job. :wink:


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## seaco (3 Nov 2007)

I really like that, well done!


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## motownmartin (4 Nov 2007)

Thanks Kevin and Lee, it's something that was very challenging and definitely something that I will do again but maybe a bigger dovetail.

First of all I need to master this Sketch-up thingy, i'm struggling at the minute :? , but need to see what different designs look like. maybe after Christmas


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## AndyBoyd (5 Nov 2007)

Nice job martin

You can do this easily too on the Woodrat and by hand of course if you have the time but not the budget for the incra/woodrat approach.

What nice too Martin, as Houslager says, you can make the contrast wood very very thin by using the woodrat different sized bits or others. Then the joints really sing.


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## motownmartin (5 Nov 2007)

AndyBoyd":2bwhxhq7 said:


> Nice job martin
> 
> You can do this easily too on the Woodrat and by hand of course if you have the time but not the budget for the incra/woodrat approach.
> 
> What nice too Martin, as Houslager says, you can make the contrast wood very very thin by using the woodrat different sized bits or others. Then the joints really sing.


I don't have the patience to cut dovetails by hand, I suppose thats something to do with working in a production shop all my life, I have to do the job the fastest way I can.

The different sized cutters I want to experiment with, my familt are already telling me what they need nice decorative boxes for :roll: they can have the practice ones :lol: 

Thanks for the feedback Andy


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## Pete Robinson (6 Nov 2007)

Martin, Just to wet your appetite and also to emphasize the absolute brilliance of the Incra jig system, here are some boxes I made a couple of years ago!!


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## devonwoody (6 Nov 2007)

Pete Robinson & Martin,
Please show us more of your work, it might help me do something more exciting :wink:


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## motownmartin (6 Nov 2007)

devonwoody":3s2jjxql said:


> Pete Robinson & Martin,
> Please show us more of your work, it might help me do something more exciting :wink:



John, as you know I have only just started doing woodwork as a hobby so I don't have a lot to offer, but Pete on the other hand, has made a lot of interesting stuff and he might be tempted to post some pics.

The only other thing that I have made so far that might interest you is a Chess Board, this was made out of some off cuts that Pete gave to me, some Black Walnut, Sycamore and Oak, here's a couple of pics.


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## devonwoody (6 Nov 2007)

Very Nice,

How about a game of chess on Yahoo internet connection


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## herdsman (6 Nov 2007)

Nice chess board Martin.

In the same boat as you, a newbie to this but working on it!!


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## Pete Robinson (6 Nov 2007)

Martin, thought Id let you know, I have put some of the boxes I have made on the site under the heading - Past projects, it might even inspire someone!!


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