# Bog oak coffee table (Finished.....photo heavy).



## MikeG. (10 Nov 2019)

This is going to be slow going, but I thought I'd do a blow-by-blow posting on my latest project, a coffee table. My back still isn't great, so it's an hour on then a couple of hours off at the moment. Put it this way, it took me half a day to get a board from here:







to here (half a metre away). To be fair, it was the 4th board down:






I think of this timber as so precious that I stood and stared at it for ages, working out where to cut it. Finally, I plucked up the courage and cut it into three. I buzzed over the bits with an electric planer, just to get an idea of where the colours were:











They're around 350 wide, so too wide for my planer. Thus scrub plane, by hand, and that's not great for a dodgy back:






There are some serious cracks:






Had a long conflab with my wife about these, and in the end she suggested filling them with a contrasting filler!!!! Normally, it's me having to persuade her to try something a little bold. I'm delighted. I had offered the alternative of slicing the boards up into narrower pieces and gluing it back together without the cracks, but she wouldn't hear of it. There is still a conversation to be had about the colour, but my instinct is that we'll end up with black.

The other contrasting thing with this table is the legs. They're going to be ordinary oak. I found an offcut slab of old English oak that has kicked around here for years and years:






Unfortunately, it isn't rift sawn, but it's only me who will notice. I ripped it and hand-planed to 70 x 70 x 500, and it's going to make quite a contrast to the bog oak:






Only three legs, Mike? Well, no, the other one was off in clamps, as it had a long split:






The observant may have noticed little squares cut out of the corners of the table top. They're not to size, but it is a recurring motif of mine to have table legs project through the corners above the top of the table. I cut those little bits out just to mark which were the outside corners, because tomorrow I am going to put these pieces through a friends planer thicknesser as my back isn't up to flattening them properly by hand, and I wanted to know which way the boards were oriented. It's one of the difficulties of the stuff that pencil marks don't show up........but I'd be planing them away anyway.


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## sammy.se (10 Nov 2019)

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Hope your back gets better soon

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## tomthumbtom8 (10 Nov 2019)

Popcorn and a drink and a nice chair.

let the show start looking forward to this one Mike


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## Racers (10 Nov 2019)

Looking very nice!

Lower shelf/rack?

White crayon for dark wood.

I keep looking at my plank and thinking.

I did plane one bit up, and used the shavings to mulch the garden.

Pete


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## MikeG. (10 Nov 2019)

Racers":1pokkufo said:


> .....Lower shelf/rack?.........



There was going to be, but that was omitted at the last design team meeting


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## Orraloon (10 Nov 2019)

This looks like a very interesting project. I will hang around and watch.
Regards
John


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## tomthumbtom8 (11 Nov 2019)

Out of interest where did you buy your bog oak from and price if you remember please


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## MikeG. (11 Nov 2019)

tomthumbtom8":2lik97g5 said:


> Out of interest where did you buy your bog oak from and price if you remember please



I bought it from a local farmer, who'd bought it off some gypsies 25 years ago, used what he wanted and then just stored it in a barn. There's 2-1/2 tons of it, and I got it for a great price.


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## Nelsun (11 Nov 2019)

Looking forward to how this progresses for sure. Hope the back sorts itself out, but, lumping all that lot around won't help much I fear.


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## sploo (11 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":ogjsined said:


> There's 2-1/2 tons of it, and I got it for a great price.


 :shock: 

Lucky, lucky man.


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## MikeG. (11 Nov 2019)

sploo":3ctd6zrh said:


> MikeG.":3ctd6zrh said:
> 
> 
> > There's 2-1/2 tons of it, and I got it for a great price.
> ...



I tried to share my luck with the forum, but the mods prevented it.


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## tomthumbtom8 (11 Nov 2019)

wish I could get my hands on some

Kent is the nearest place


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## Bm101 (11 Nov 2019)

The contrasting brown is lovely. Special bit of timber. Those pens are going to be a bit bigger than normal.
Looking forward to the build Mike, thanks for going to the trouble of sharing the wip.

On the fill colour... have you thought about copper... (hammer) 
I messed about with goldleaf on the bottom of a box I finished a few days ago because I had some in a drawer from about 10 years ago. Knew it would come in handy! Id rather have used copper. The Mrs bought a coconut shell bowl on holiday and it has copper leaf on the internal. I scoffed at the time but its a nicer colour imo than the gold with a darker wood.


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## MikeG. (12 Nov 2019)

I mentioned that I would be doing a test for how I might fill in the large cracks in the table top Here is the result:
















So, it's definitely not going to be the oak inlay!! That was lots of work, and looks horrible. Black filler it is......

I spent quite a bit of time cutting and flattening the apron and drawer fronts. The wood for those is beautiful, but all over the place. It took loads of work. Here you can see winding sticks in use for the long apron on the back of the table:











Pity I didn't take the "before" photo, as it was a bit of a joke....probably 25 degrees difference! Oh, and this illustrates my "over-under" winding stick technique, meaning that the sticks don't have to be the same size (but they do have to be set up at right angles to the workpiece).

I love seeing beauty emerge from a really unprepossessing piece of wood:






This is the bulk of the structural timbers done:






You'll see when I come to doing the joints that the aprons are only good one side. This is because they were so twisted and mis-shapen that the long one would have ended up under 15mm thick if I'd thicknessed it, and one of the side ones wouldn't have been much more.

I inset some butterflies into the underside of the tops, and they've done a great job of stabilising the huge crack (which goes all the way through, obviously):











You can see that the undersides of the table top boards haven't been flattened yet. I am proposing to fill them first, then take them to a large thicknesser.


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## Trevanion (12 Nov 2019)

How does it feel to be working with wood that's been in a bog for a couple thousand years?


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## marcros (12 Nov 2019)

Will you be cutting butterflies in the top Mike?


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## MikeG. (12 Nov 2019)

Trevanion":3f1x7wl9 said:


> How does it feel to be working with wood that's been in a bog for a couple thousand years?



Three things........firstly, it's absolutely filthy. Your hands end up looking like you've stripped a gearbox. The dust is fine, black, and gets absolutely everywhere. Secondly, it's waxy. It's really quite different from ordinary oak in texture. I really like it, particularly planing and chiseling it, which seems much easier than normal stuff. Finally, you can't see what you're doing. Lines are virtually impossible to see, even though I've been drawing with a white pencil. I couldn't see the tip of the router when doing the butterflies (why doesn't my router have a light like my impact driver does?). The blackness just kills the light, and you really may as well be working by braille. When I come to do the joinery I'll be applying masking tape and marking that. I'm thinking of doing through dovetails for the drawer fronts, contrasting with the oak drawer sides, so I'd better have worked out how to see markings before then!


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## MikeG. (12 Nov 2019)

marcros":1bpezhp9 said:


> Will you be cutting butterflies in the top Mike?



Probably not. My wife would take some convincing, I think.


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## sammy.se (12 Nov 2019)

The timber is really lovely. Warm and dramatic. I think the through dovetails would be nice.

Black filler is a good call. 

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## MikeG. (12 Nov 2019)

Thanks Sammy. I agree, this timber is stunning. I'm really hoping this piece of furniture does it justice. You have to be sooooooo careful with contrasting timber, but there's a double complication here. Firstly, the timber is a contrast to itself, with two different colours. Secondly, the contrast between both of those and the new oak legs. I'll mock up the through dovetail drawers first, and see what they look like before I decide on that. I'm also thinking of having (new) oak drawer handles.


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## tomthumbtom8 (13 Nov 2019)

Looking good Mike 

I like your saw horses very neat


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## MikeG. (13 Nov 2019)

tomthumbtom8":5evalr1b said:


> .....I like your saw horses very neat



Here's how they're done. They were a hand-tool exercise for my son in law....well, he made one, I did the others.


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## Steliz (13 Nov 2019)

Wow, the wood is stunning.
Apart from orientating the pieces to take advantage of the colour variations, have you considered how to balance the impact of the beauty of the wood against the design?


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## MikeG. (13 Nov 2019)

Steliz":3sdw3g90 said:


> Wow, the wood is stunning.
> Apart from orientating the pieces to take advantage of the colour variations, have you considered how to balance the impact of the beauty of the wood against the design?



That's what I worry about most, Steliz. I spent ages worrying about whether I should have just built an orthodox oak (ie not bog oak) undercarriage...aprons & legs.....and just made a feature of the top. I really hope it isn't overdone visually when I've finished. It would be nice to be somewhat subtle.


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## MikeG. (13 Nov 2019)

I said this would be slow! I made a start on the joinery. Here are the mortises in the two "back" legs (ie those opposite the drawer side of the table):






















There will be a pair of M&Ts for each of the apron/ leg joins, and these are offset so as to not weaken the leg. The mortises are really hard to chisel out cleanly, being 13 x 33 x 50 deep....so small and very deep. I also added a haunch to the edge of the joint not going into a deep mortise, to prevent twisting. If you don't follow that, all will become clear when I show the tenons later in the proceedings. The reason for the deep mortises is that without a lower shelf I am worried about racking. I imagine someone bumping into this table, standing vulnerably out in the middle of the room, and damaging the joints.....so I've made the joints as strong as I can.


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## screwpainting (14 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":2l6yeui7 said:


> You'll see when I come to doing the joints that the aprons are only good one side. This is because they were so twisted and mis-shapen that the long one would have ended up under 15mm thick if I'd thicknessed it, and one of the side ones wouldn't have been much more.
> 
> I inset some butterflies into the underside of the tops, and they've done a great job of stabilising the huge crack (which goes all the way through, obviously):
> 
> ...



Mike, have you thought about not flattening the underside and leaving it as is. I personally think that would be a great touch for something special, made of such an ancient timber. It would seem more authentic and historic some how, difficult to put into words  sort of leaving the story of the wood exposed, but out of site.


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## MikeG. (14 Nov 2019)

I'm only going to flatten it to the extent that the edges are even. The long apron is only good one side, with the other untouched, because the wood was so wonky that if I thicknessed it it would only have been 12 to 15mm thick.


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## MikeG. (15 Nov 2019)

I've realised I haven't included a drawing, so you guys have no idea what I am actually up to. Apologies.


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## tomthumbtom8 (15 Nov 2019)

That a good Idea I should do the same on my project


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## MikeG. (15 Nov 2019)

tomthumbtom8":xn3t9obi said:


> That a good Idea I should do the same on my project



It'd certainly save me asking so many questions!


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## Lons (15 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":dvai2lpo said:


> without a lower shelf I am worried about racking. I imagine someone bumping into this table, standing vulnerably out in the middle of the room, and damaging the joints.....so I've made the joints as strong as I can.



Would have to be in our house, yesterday I caught our 6 year old granddaughter standing on the coffee table practicing her gymnastics. :roll:


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## thetyreman (15 Nov 2019)

this is going to be very nice, will you use turnbuttons to attach the top to the frame? how will it be attached?


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## MikeG. (15 Nov 2019)

Yes, exactly that. I did think about using a sliding dovetail connector, just for fun, and I might have a play with some scrap...but chances are it will be buttons.


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

I did say this was going to be slow....

Previously, I'd chopped out the mortices for the apron on the back and two sides, so next, it was time to do the tenons. Mark, knife, chisel, saw:
















You'll note a router plane in the last photos which you've not seen before. It's half built, but works a treat. I'll post on that separately in due course. Anyway, on with the joints:






I haven't a photo, but you'll have worked out that the tenons are staggered so that adjoining sides can have full depth over-lapping joints. I want really strong racking resistance.











Now, we swap to a DSLR camera, so the photos improve, but I've forgotten how to turn the flash off and some of the colours will therefore look a little different.











None of the timber has been properly planed at this point. I want to do the joinery first, so the vertical mark you can see on the apron is just where I must have slowed down on the planer. It won't be there in the finished article.

This is a view of the end of the rear apron. Remember I said previously that the inside would only be partially planed as there wasn't enough thickness to thickness the whole board properly? Well, this is the consequence. There is nowhere to reference the router plane to sort out the inside face of the tenon, and thus the work that side is all with a chisel:






In the end, it all went together nicely:






They're really tight joints, and that feels really sturdy.

If you notice, I have the aprons arranged with black at the top graduating to brown at the bottom. The drawer fronts will also follow this. So, the drawer surround frame should also sensibly follow this pattern too. Problem was, I couldn't see a board anywhere in the accessible part of my stack which would let me get a piece of 25 x 50 brown stuff from it. I wasted 2 hours looking. In the end, I stumbled across this pretty grotty looking piece, and could just about see a way of getting what I wanted from it:











It's really important to understand that the drawer-surround framing is a vital part of the structure, taking the place of an apron but trying to provide the same strength and racking resistance. So, more joinery. Here is a pile of the three vertical elements set up for me to cut double tenons:
















......and now the commensurate mortices:
















The tenons on the end of that piece were made without reference to the leg they were designed to attach to, and they weren't quite as well thought through as they should have been.
















As you can see here, the drawer surround projects inside the inner face of the leg, so the second tenon has only a housing rather than a mortice into which it fits:











It all goes together rather nicely, and even dry fitted it feels plenty strong enough:











I've a design question for you now. I am thinking of having a staff bead around the bottom edge of the apron (and the drawer frame). What do you think?


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## Nelsun (18 Nov 2019)

Looking grand there Mike. The graduation on the bog oak ties in very nicely with the plain oak of the legs. Picking a finish will be fun.

As for a bead... it's all pretty square faced at the moment, so a wee bead would make a nice detail in my book.


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## sammy.se (18 Nov 2019)

Very nice work there Mike!

My personal preference would be no to the staff bead. The feature of the table is the wood, and that colour graduation. Why distract away from that in any way? Hence I think keep the design as clean as possible, letting the eyes take only the wood in.

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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

:lol: :lol: One all.


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

Nelsun":z2jbkej3 said:


> ..... Picking a finish will be fun.......



I've been experimenting with finishing on some saw handles, and I've made my decision. It's a mix of oil, white spirit, and a coloured varnish....but not in the same ratio as is usually done. Slap on, wipe off ten minutes later, and leave to dry for 24 hours. Build up 5, 6,7 maybe 8 layers.


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## sammy.se (18 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":9ck5dpea said:


> Nelsun":9ck5dpea said:
> 
> 
> > ..... Picking a finish will be fun.......
> ...


Ooh, I'm surprised at the coloured varnish. Won't that detract from the wood's natural colour? 

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## El Barto (18 Nov 2019)

Lovely work so far =D> =D>


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## Nelsun (18 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":1ar45bx0 said:


> Nelsun":1ar45bx0 said:
> 
> 
> > ..... Picking a finish will be fun.......
> ...


There's always paint


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## Chris152 (18 Nov 2019)

The combination of light and dark/black oak looks really good, I think.


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## Steliz (18 Nov 2019)

It's looking very good already Mike. I like the uncomplicated design and I would also be a no for the staff bead (now that Google has told me what it is).


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## Steve Maskery (18 Nov 2019)

This looks excellent Mike, I am jealous of your hand skills.
No staff bead. You could create a Poll for it.


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

sammy.se":21pvsryx said:


> .....Ooh, I'm surprised at the coloured varnish. Won't that detract from the wood's natural colour?......



It's to tone down the (modern) oak a little. It's a very minor effect, because it wipes off. It has no discernible effect whatever on the bog oak.

-

Here's another design question. Do I show dovetails on the front of the drawers?











Or, do I do traditional drawer front blind dovetails?


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

Nelsun":3a3jo12d said:


> ....There's always paint....



People have died for less! :lol:


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## Steve Maskery (18 Nov 2019)

No, Mike, leave something for admirers to find.


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## AndyT (18 Nov 2019)

To me, through dovetails on a drawer front say "I've just learned how to do dovetails so I want everyone to see how clever I am."

I think I'm safe in saying that you're not a beginner, Mike.


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

The thing is, I've never seen anyone do through dovetails on drawers, other than me, and one other guy on here. I quite like it.


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## AJB Temple (18 Nov 2019)

Superb work. 

I vote in favour of a) add a bead b) blind dovetails. I think exposed dovetails in this case looks untidy and you have the skill to do first class blind ones.


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

I've just seen my little test piece again, and I tend to think you're right. And you're certainly right about the bead.


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## stuartpaul (18 Nov 2019)

Nice work Mike with even nicer timber.

Staff bead and blind dovetails please.


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## Bm101 (18 Nov 2019)

Blind dovetails all day long for me. A given. No to staff bead personally though far less certainly. I had to google it so take my opinion with a bag or two of salt.


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## Lons (18 Nov 2019)

Blind dovetails imo as well Mike I think through detracts too much but the jury's out on the bead, personally I like them but I'd want to do a couple of test pieces first.
Nothing worse than looking at it for years thinking "wish I hadn't done that".

Great project and looking forward to seeing how you made the little bog oak router plane


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## AndyT (18 Nov 2019)

Ok, sometimes through dovetails on a drawer do say "this is a sturdy, utilitarian piece for the workshop" - but I still wouldn't put them on the coffee table.

Sorry for having such a short memory!


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## MikeG. (18 Nov 2019)

OK, that's a decision. Blind dovetails it is. There's probably enough going on with the drawers, as there will be a Greene & Greene-esque wooden drawer pull.


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## Trainee neophyte (19 Nov 2019)

What I love about your photos is the incidental background items. Today, I spotted your bench dog. You made that, didn't you? 

I have such a long way to go. [Sigh] I am still at the "wax on, wax off" part of the learning curve, and Mr Miagi has yet to reveal why it is important. 

As for the table - I am in awe, and couldn't possibly comment, other than to say through dovetails would be fine if it wasn't for the fact that the bog oak is the star, not the skill of the craftsman in this case. In any other piece, yes - this one, possibly not. But you have already decided against them, so I am merely confirming your thinking.

I hope your back is improving - been there, done that, not fun.


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## MikeG. (19 Nov 2019)

Trainee neophyte":1vdebk9o said:


> ......... Today, I spotted your bench dog. You made that, didn't you?........



Yep. Two or three years ago, I guess. It is plenty strong enough, but restricted by the square dog holes.


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## MikeG. (19 Nov 2019)

Trainee neophyte":3skixjhk said:


> .......I hope your back is improving - been there, done that, not fun.



95%. I just have to be a little careful picking up heavy stuff........like thick, dense, bog oak boards!


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## thetyreman (19 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":1stx3pa3 said:


> The thing is, I've never seen anyone do through dovetails on drawers, other than me, and one other guy on here. I quite like it.



alan peters did it on a few of his pieces, I like it.


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## Iestynd (19 Nov 2019)

Simply magic. excellent work


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## MikeG. (19 Nov 2019)

Thank you, Lestynd.


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## sammy.se (19 Nov 2019)

Really looking forward to seeing this complete. Looks great so far 

I agree, blind dovetails.

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## MikeG. (19 Nov 2019)

I'm flat to the boards with work for the next few days, so there'll be little progress for a while.


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## MikeG. (24 Nov 2019)

I've not had a lot of time in the workshop recently. Anyway, I planed and thicknessed the table tops at a friend's workshop, where he has a huge P/T. Back home, I cut the tops to length using a cross-cut saw, but knowing how vulnerable this wood is to breakout, I pre-scored the underside with a knife:







I spend rather a lot of time cleaning up the cracks with a chisel, and then used a card scraper to clean up the marks left by the planer:






Not being brave enough to start with epoxy etc, I decided to detour onto the drawers, which are going to be of oak (possibly with a sycamore base....we'll see). I needed to re-saw some 25mm stuff to make the sides, so I set up my re-saw fence:






.....and ripped the stock up the middle:











I then fitted the drawer fronts tightly into the holes in the frame:






They're much blacker than that in real life. I think the flash is playing tricks with us. 

After planing the drawer sides to the same height as the drawer fronts, I marked out the tails and cut them out:






I seem to have failed to take a photo of the completed tail boards. Ho hum.... Thence to the pin boards (drawer fronts). It's an absolute pain not being able to see any marks on this dark wood, so I used tape:






I've got an old plastic handled knife from a kids cutlery set, cut off square at the end, which I use for driving down into the saw kerf in half-blind dovetails:






Then it's just more careful chiseling:






And a reasonable first joint:






I then diverted again, and mocked up a drawer-pull idea:











My wife's reaction was "it's a bit clompy", and she's right. I'll play with a scaled down version and see if it looks a bit better in a more refined size. If anyone has any wooden handle suggestions, please feel free to drop a photo or link in here.


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## TheTiddles (24 Nov 2019)

She's not wrong there... Handles are one of the hardest parts of design, I'd go subtle, very subtle, maybe using the blacker parts of a board and a minimal design so they are visually there, but not obtrusive, just enough to get your fingers under and little more.

Aidan


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## Trainee neophyte (24 Nov 2019)

TheTiddles":3g9nfrm0 said:


> She's not wrong there... Handles are one of the hardest parts of design, I'd go subtle, very subtle, maybe using the blacker parts of a board and a minimal design so they are visually there, but not obtrusive, just enough to get your fingers under and little more.
> 
> Aidan



It's either the same wood and unobtrusive, or different wood and in your face. Personal preference would be for small turned knobs out of the same oak. Perhaps two per drawer. The other problem with contrasting wood is that it ages and changes colour. I have no idea what the bog oak will do...

Big statement, or no statement? (NB I'm a trainee, not to be taken seriously!)


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## MikeG. (24 Nov 2019)

The bog oak won't change colour. Ordinary oak will darken somewhat over time.


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## AndyT (24 Nov 2019)

Handles are really difficult. I spent days on deciding the shape of one turned knob for the drawer in my walnut side table, so all I can really offer is sympathy and the observation that there are subtleties in the shaping of a detail like that which elude many of us. I think it's akin to typeface design - the differences between a letter in one face and another can be tiny and there's a very short distance between ugly and elegant.

I do agree that your current draft handle looks fussy. The rest of the piece is quite restrained - flat square surfaces to show off the beauty of the extraordinary timber.

I think if I were you I would go for something cut from small pieces of the same wood, selected for colour, and a simple one piece design screwed flat to the drawer front. 

I don't mean to suggest what I used on my little chest of drawers as suitable but it's easier to show an available picture rather than write more words. This was my mock-up in softwood:






This shows the final effect (yew handles on oak drawers):






I found it really helped making something 3D to try out, on a drawer front at the right height, to make sure it was easy to get hold of and use - but I'm sure you know that too.


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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

These are some ideas that I've had saved from pinterest.






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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

ColeyS1":2ip54pxe said:


> ......



Anyone any ideas on how the dish-shaped depression in the first photo is made?


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## sploo (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":3g4e9fbo said:


> Anyone any ideas on how the dish-shaped depression in the first photo is made?


A honking great router bit would do it. You could also jig up the drawer front on the lathe and scoop it out (either freehand or with a specially ground tool.

A router (overhead) with a jig that holds it like a swing seat would allow an arc to be cut - then rotate the drawer front or axle of the jig and that would also create the depression.

You could also use a curved draw knife - though it'd be hard to get a perfectly round depression.


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## AndyT (25 Nov 2019)

I wonder if those depressions would look more suited to the piece if they were hand carved? A bent spoon bit will 'naturally' match a depression of up to a hemisphere. On YouTube, the Pask Makes channel has a nice episode on making such a gouge and using it. 
https://youtu.be/O4noFDNZ1WQ


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## Sawdust=manglitter (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":3ffxk3zq said:


> Anyone any ideas on how the dish-shaped depression in the first photo is made?



It may be done on the lathe. The headstock on my lathe can be turned perpendicular to the bed for larger items, but it wouldn't be for the fainthearted having a long board spinning like a propeller 

But I quite like Andy's idea


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## sploo (25 Nov 2019)

Sawdust=manglitter":1mg28vqg said:


> MikeG.":1mg28vqg said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone any ideas on how the dish-shaped depression in the first photo is made?
> ...


By using some suitable chuck jaws (https://www.axminster.co.uk/150mm-wood- ... tes-910405) you can mount a set of 4 quarter circle plates of wood. I use that method to create a cheap copy of the button jaws (https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-b ... 0mm-340957).

If the drawer front fit inside that circle then you could hold it with a slightly reduced risk of removing a finger as it spun. Granted any drawer front over 40cm in length is going to require a big lathe.

Probably a big router dish bit on a router table would be easiest, but they ain't cheap (https://www.trenddirectuk.com/18-18x1-2 ... gJr6_D_BwE)


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## marcros (25 Nov 2019)

if it were me, I would rout out a circle with a core box bit and leave a flat in the middle for the knob. I can't find the picture that I have seen- here is something similar https://woodgears.ca/pantograph/recessed_knobs.html

I also like the sound of andy's suggestion.

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2016/03 ... ssed-pulls pretty cool too


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## marcros (25 Nov 2019)

https://www.finewoodworking.com/2014/03 ... ght-spaces


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## AndyT (25 Nov 2019)

That second one looks like something Mike might have made!

But in the spirit of setting harder challenges... How would it look to have something like the recess + cross bar handle, but all carved from the solid? Undercutting the bar would be tricky but achievable.

In my imagination, the bar flows seamlessly across the drawer front, while the recess has a set of sharp edged, tapered scoops, like one of Alan Peters' bowls.

But the chance of ruining a big bit of precious timber are very high - I certainly wouldn't dare to try it!


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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Anyone think welding a shaft to a piece of 1/4" steel ground to shape, then mounting that in a pillar drill before plunging it confidently into a piece of priceless timber could be good for a giggle? The faint-hearted might consider clamping the workpiece down rather than holding it by hand....


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## sploo (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":1twobkyn said:


> Anyone think welding a shaft to a piece of 1/4" steel ground to shape, then mounting that in a pillar drill before plunging it confidently into a piece of priceless timber could be good for a giggle? The faint-hearted might consider clamping the workpiece down rather than holding it by hand....


That idea did occur to me (if the lathe can't spin the workpiece, spin the tool  )

That said, with a very low rpm and taking a shallow cut it might work - basically scraping the material out.


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## AndyT (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":3pyu041d said:


> Anyone think welding a shaft to a piece of 1/4" steel ground to shape, then mounting that in a pillar drill before plunging it confidently into a piece of priceless timber could be good for a giggle? The faint-hearted might consider clamping the workpiece down rather than holding it by hand....



Mike, you sound crazy enough to stand out in the hot sun while someone hurls missiles at you, armed only with a little stick to defend yourself...if you do dare what you say, at least set a video camera running first!  =D>


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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

sploo":2dkt6r83 said:


> ....... with a very low rpm and taking a shallow cut it might work - basically scraping the material out.



I imagine roughing most of the waste away with a gouge first, and using this just to clean the hole up. I probably haven't got time to do the experiment.


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## loftyhermes (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":2cy4pp66 said:


> Anyone think welding a shaft to a piece of 1/4" steel ground to shape, then mounting that in a pillar drill before plunging it confidently into a piece of priceless timber could be good for a giggle? The faint-hearted might consider clamping the workpiece down rather than holding it by hand....


Like a rosette cutter?


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## Setch (25 Nov 2019)

I'd probably go for a raised panel bit in a drill press. Remove the bearing and drill a suitable hole to let the bearing mounting spindle plunge into the drawfront.


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## Bm101 (25 Nov 2019)

Obviously I don't have a clue what I'm doing. So.....
I'd put a forstner bit in. Then I'd have a bit of mdf etc cut to the OD of the bit. I'd hot glue some sandpaper etc stuck to that and a small bolt to hold it in the drill to clean up the hole base. You'd still have the pilot hole though right..?
So I'd drill another hole straight through avoiding breakout etc but of small size, whatever is in scale to the handle. I'd get some epoxy and some right size copper bar and after tickling the ends to shiny use that to accentuate without overbearing the backs of the handles I'd tap it home.
Job done. 

Of course. If you'd have listened to me at the start you could have applied copper leaf to all your internal cracks, applied a clear resin and now this copper handle idea would probably be winning you awards with the integrated spirit of form and design.
Just saying.

Feckin' Windows Cleaners.


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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Bm101":8b16d3sr said:


> ........ If you'd have listened to me at the start you could have applied copper leaf to all your internal cracks, applied a clear resin and now this copper handle idea would probably be winning you awards with the integrated spirit of form and design........



You may end being the winner, because the chances are it will be a brass epoxy fill, and a bought brass drawer handle.


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## Bm101 (25 Nov 2019)

Ahhhhh Mike. Don't use brass handles!


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Nov 2019)

Assuming you don't have anything else to do, a shiny router jig would make you some smooth holes: https://player.vimeo.com/video/52774678


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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Bm101":33232xjz said:


> Ahhhhh Mike. Don't use brass handles!



The design team have considered the options, and brass is being looked at, despite reservations from the construction team.


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## Bm101 (25 Nov 2019)

Steer the design team toward copper. Otherwise a general option toward industrial action may be voted upon comrades! Stand firm at the back Andy T .


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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Trainee neophyte":1evq1fnx said:


> Assuming you don't have anything else to do, a shiny router jig would make you some smooth holes: https://player.vimeo.com/video/52774678



Nice!

I wonder if you'd get a smoother result with a core box bit rather than a straight cutter?


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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

Something went wrong when I tried brass powder and epoxy. It ended up a looking patchy and uneven 





I've been too scared to try it again lol

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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Bloody hell.....thanks Coley!!  I've been trying to pluck up the courage to experiment...............


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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

Thinking about it I would have used ordinary west system epoxy, not a clear casting type resin. You'll be alright Mike

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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Did you over-build it, then sand back, or did you cast it flush?


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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

I would have overbuilt it. From memory I think the advice was to mix it really thick so you could hardly stir it. I'd have probably filed off most and belt sanded it flush, followed by orbital, hoover and airline to blow out the pores. I reckon the darker bits could be where the powder wasnt packed in tight enough and are tiny resin pockets, possibly, maybe....

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## MikeG. (25 Nov 2019)

Did you torch it?


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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

I dont think so, although cant be 100% sure. I think it probably needed to be even dryer and mixed more then more again. 

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## ColeyS1 (25 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":3nsjdegf said:


> Anyone any ideas on how the dish-shaped depression in the first photo is made?



Looks like a fun project

https://vimeo.com/52774678

One jig but lots and lots of adjustment.

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## sploo (26 Nov 2019)

Trainee neophyte":3vghizvn said:


> Assuming you don't have anything else to do, a shiny router jig would make you some smooth holes: https://player.vimeo.com/video/52774678


Ah - yeah; that's exactly what I was meaning with my earlier comment about a "swing" type jig for a router. The difference being mine was in my head, and that one is real :wink: 



MikeG.":3vghizvn said:


> The design team have considered the options, and brass is being looked at, despite reservations from the construction team.


The design team does tend to win I find, in my house at least.


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## ColeyS1 (26 Nov 2019)

Oops, hadn't seen he'd already posted a link to the video ;@)

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## Racers (26 Nov 2019)

I have made shallow round depresions in wood just with a gouge and cabinet scraper, if you scrape from different directions you can smooth out any ireagularitys.

Pete


Edit goose necked scraper, not a cabinet scraper!


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## sammy.se (26 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":9m1sqb77 said:


> I've got an old plastic handled knife from a kids cutlery set, cut off square at the end, which I use for driving down into the saw kerf in half-blind dovetails:


Hi Mike, what's the benefit of the bread knife in the blind dovetails? Doesn't it split the wood if pressed into an unsawn area?

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## AndyT (26 Nov 2019)

Another thought about the drawer pulls... if you do want to try the recessed style with a bar across, have you considered a square depression rather than a round one? Possibly with sloping sides. It would be far more practical to make without needing special tools and it could echo the visible square tops to the legs.


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## MikeG. (26 Nov 2019)

sammy.se":126eqzlj said:


> MikeG.":126eqzlj said:
> 
> 
> > I've got an old plastic handled knife from a kids cutlery set, cut off square at the end, which I use for driving down into the saw kerf in half-blind dovetails:
> ...



Pick your wood carefully!!.......but with the right wood this gets the back of the socket down to full depth quicker and easier than hacking away at it with a chisel. It is so thin that it fits within the saw kerf, and it has less risk of splitting than if you attempted the same thing with a chisel (which you wouldn't). It means you can lay your board flat on the bench and chop down into it the waste with a chisel all the way down to full depth, without having to work in from the end grain end of the board at all other than for the final clean up.


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## MikeG. (26 Nov 2019)

AndyT":2oh19ig1 said:


> Another thought about the drawer pulls... if you do want to try the recessed style with a bar across, have you considered a square depression rather than a round one? Possibly with sloping sides. It would be far more practical to make without needing special tools and it could echo the visible square tops to the legs.



I'm coming to the view, I think, that a depression isn't appropriate for this piece of furniture. It may just look a little too mid-century, I feel.


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## MusicMan (26 Nov 2019)

MikeG.":27u872jy said:


> Anyone think welding a shaft to a piece of 1/4" steel ground to shape, then mounting that in a pillar drill before plunging it confidently into a piece of priceless timber could be good for a giggle? The faint-hearted might consider clamping the workpiece down rather than holding it by hand....



I think you are on the right lines, but I'd suggest an old method used by woodwind instrument makers for making almost any symmetrical shape on a woodwind bell - a reamer. Turn the profile out of oak (i.e. a dome), with a good shaft on it that can be held in a chuck. Slit the dome shape down with a saw, and insert a reasonably hard but thin steel blade (eg made from an old saw) and grind that to shape, flush with the surface of the oak. If needed use a lateral screw or two to fix it in place. You finish grinding the profile after the blade is secured in the wood part of the reamer.

This is much gentler than the bare steel reamer you suggest, and much less liable to pick up and fly your precious drawer fronts around the workshop.

Some more info is given here https://www.fomrhi.org/vanilla/fomrhi/u ... 202061.pdf though this is mostly about the long bores of woodwinds.

Keith


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## xy mosian (26 Nov 2019)

Sorry of topic here.
MusicMan, 
That is a real blast from the past, Fomrhi. The Fellowship of Makers and Restorers of Historical Instruments.
I was in at the start, with the likes of Ephraim Zegerman, and Djilda of course, Donald Gill and the like. 
Thank you for the reminder.

PM on its way.

xy


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## MikeG. (7 Dec 2019)

I haven't even looked at this for a couple of weeks, so it was great to get a few hours in the workshop yesterday evening and today. I started by rifling through my stash of spalted sycamore, looking for something to use for drawer bottoms. This looked like it would work:






Unfortunately it was very much "in wind":






To save wastage I cut it to length, and halved the width:











Flattening from there only cost a couple of millimetres of thickness. I then proceeded to the bandsaw for re-sawing:











Looks good, hey?

Well, it's all gone on a bonfire. It was riddled with woodworm, and I came across at least 2 live larvae. I chucked probably a quarter of my spalted sycamore on the same fire. So, there's a couple of hours wasted, and I started all over again.

This time, I grabbed some ash:






After re-sawing and planing it was down to about 10mm for the glue up:






I did both drawer bottoms of course, and they were in clamps overnight. This morning, I cleaned them up:






I ran the grooves around the front and two sides of the drawer carcasses which enabled me to accurately measure the size of the drawer bases. I cut the bases to size, and ran a rebate around 3 sides to get them down to the thickness necessary to fit the groove. We're dealing with fairly critical dimensions here as the drawer sides are thinnish.....8 or 9mm, so the grooves aren't deep:






Dry assembly:






The back edge of the drawers bottoms will be screwed to the under-edge of the rearmost member of the drawer carcass, so I did the grooves for those:






I forgot to show the through dovetails for the drawer backs, but they were quick and easy. Here is one of the drawers glued up:






Note the pinch-sticks for checking the diagonals. No need for clamps, as all the jointing is really tight. I glued the front edge of the drawer bottom into the drawer front groove, and then the sides about a third of the way back up the drawer. Any movement there will be minimal. Behind that, it's floating free.

This morning I had also glued up the table top:






Note the plastic scraps to keep the steel of the clamp away from the glue and the oak. Those three can be a nasty combination if they come into contact:






I also prepared a scrap for a test of the resin/ brass mix:






I used a hot melt glue gun to seal up the underside and ends of the cracks, but I wasn't as assiduous as I should have been. Frankly, I had no idea this stuff would have the viscosity of milk. It was surprised by the colour of the brass filings when mixed into the epoxy:






And yeah, it leaked:






I did the epoxy in the house because of the warmer temperature, but apparently it smells a bit so I won't be doing that again.


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## tomthumbtom8 (8 Dec 2019)

Looking good Mike.

if it smells it's NOT Epoxy resin it's poly resin.

I've had some bad results with the poly resin and wood combination where the resin has not bonded with the wood and also poly resin will shrink a bit in height.


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## MikeG. (8 Dec 2019)

Yes, it is indeed a poly. It bonded OK, and shrinkage shouldn't be an issue because I'll build a little hot-melt glue wall around the areas to be filled enabling a little over-filling. What I learnt from my little experiment was that the ratio of brass dust needs to be higher than I used, because it seems like the brass sinks through the resin. The stuff that leaked out of the underside of the cracks cleaned up really nicely, and polished to an obvious brass. However, the stuff on the show side is too resin-y, and only polishes up here and there.

-

I only managed a few minutes in the workshop today (damn christmas parties........), but came up with a rather nice alternative wooden drawer handle, which has subsequently had design team approval.


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## tomthumbtom8 (8 Dec 2019)

brass mix will sink apply your mix BUT if you turn the worktop upside down the brass will be in the right place.

drill a small hole if you've filled all the gap


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## tomthumbtom8 (8 Dec 2019)

Acrylic sheet will hotmelt glue in place


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## MikeG. (8 Dec 2019)

tomthumbtom8":36np05b5 said:


> brass mix will sink apply your mix BUT if you turn the worktop upside down the brass will be in the right place.



I'm thinking of doing the pours in two goes, with the first one clear, and leaving me say 6 or 8mm of brass for the final pour a day or so later. This will mean less depth of resin for the brass to sink through, and with an increased ratio of brass I'm pretty confident this will do the trick.



> drill a small hole if you've filled all the gap



Sorry, I don't follow. Drill a hole in what? And why?


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## tomthumbtom8 (8 Dec 2019)

Seal the top with hot melt glue and Acrylic turn the work top over, then drill a small hole then pour the resin and brass mix in.

So you are working the worktop upside down


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## MikeG. (8 Dec 2019)

I can't do that, because there are only couple of the cracks which go all the way through. There are half a dozen others which are just on the top surface.


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## MikeG. (9 Dec 2019)

Following the lessons of the first handle trial......:






....... I produced something else for discussion:
















We like the shape of the handle itself. The options with this mock up include the vertical cross-pieces, the raised plugs (should be larger and more of a contrast), and to colour reverse everything (brown handle, black plugs/ cross piece). Let's see what you guys prefer, but we've got a favourite at the moment.

I finished off work on the frame by adding a bead to the bottom edge of the apron, shooting the edges, and scraping a finish on the outer face. In pulling it apart from the dry fit as it has stood for a couple of weeks, I thought I'd mock-up the corner join to show how the tenons overlap inside the legs:











I then added a finish so that I could glue without worrying so much about cleaning up the squeeze out:











I'd also added a round-over to the long edges and top of the legs, and cleaned up the faces with a plane:






This is the finish the legs got:






The bog oak gets the same, but with a dark varnish rather than clear. Here are the legs:






This 1:1:1 mixture is brushed on then wiped off after 5 to 10 minutes. That lot will dry overnight and the gluing up of the frame can happen tomorrow. If the legs seem like too much of a contrast to the bog-oak, then I'll rub them back fairly hard and apply the darker finish. Finally, the end of this drawn out build is in sight.


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## Nelsun (9 Dec 2019)

I prefer the suitcase (for want of a better word) handle with the raised stud; it's less of a shin knocker than the first one. Black handle for me I think as a lighter one would stand out too much.


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## AndyT (9 Dec 2019)

I'd go for black handles with studs or just screws, but without making the studs visible. That way the rather nice carved double curve is what you see. 
The carved vertical cross strap idea looks a bit busy and doesn't relate to any other part of the table, in my opinion.


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## Orraloon (10 Dec 2019)

I like the handle that looks like a leather strap. Hope you don't mind if I copy that one day.
Regards
John


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## MikeG. (10 Dec 2019)

Orraloon":28f5zgc5 said:


> I like the handle that looks like a leather strap. Hope you don't mind if I copy that one day.
> Regards
> John



Not in the least! Sincerest form of flattery and all that.

The decision here is to do the black strap with brass dome-headed screws, and to loose-fit the cross straps over those screws to see if we like them.


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## Sheffield Tony (10 Dec 2019)

Me too. The strap handle is a nice interesting feature. The cross bits are a step too far and detract from the lines. I quite like the little pins though. Might even use two on a diagonal. Maybe.


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## will1983 (10 Dec 2019)

Looking good Mike.

Nice to see someone else cooking up their own finishes too! I've got a thing for Danish oil at the moment, first coat flooded on (no faffing about, just get plenty on), second coat (bit more careful) and the third coat with a good glug of oil based varnish mixed into it.


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## MikeG. (10 Dec 2019)

I decided on a 2 stage glue up, firstly to de-stress the whole procedure, and secondly, to fit around meetings and work. So first thing this morning I quickly cut some grooves for buttons:







Then I glued up the two ends and the front drawer surround:











I also pushed some really awful filler crudely into all the cracks on the underside of the table top, to prevent the resin mix running through:






Damn stuff wouldn't come out of the nozzle at all, so I cut the bottom open and took it from there, 

That was phase one. Then this evening I did phase two, which were the two long sides (front and back), having de-clamped the ends:






I also cleaned up the filler, leaving the table top ready for resin. I can't wait for that pleasure...


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## MikeG. (10 Dec 2019)

will1983":2vfzrrlf said:


> ........Nice to see someone else cooking up their own finishes too!........



There's a guy in Poland, I think, who has a business making expensive bog oak furniture, and he doesn't apply any finish at all normally. Now that I've worked with it a while I can understand why. The wood is naturally waxy. All he does is sand it an awful lot with a very fine grit, and it polishes up to a deep shine without the addition of any finish at all. It really is a very odd material.


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## MikeG. (18 Dec 2019)

I'm saving progress updates for one last post which will include the finished piece of furniture in situ, but I thought I'd drop this little hint here as a foretaste. Everything is now finished apart from the finish on the top, which I started tonight:






How many days to christmas? Well, however many there are is how many coats of oil/ varnish/ white spirit mix it will have.


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## sammy.se (18 Dec 2019)

Looking forward to the finished article Mike!!

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## MikeG. (18 Dec 2019)

So am I Sam. This has to be the most drawn out build I have ever done.


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## tomthumbtom8 (18 Dec 2019)

Looks Good Mike 
don't rush it now


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## Steve Maskery (18 Dec 2019)

MikeG.":rihzmint said:


> This has to be the most drawn out build I have ever done.



Lightweight 

Looks great, Mike, really good.


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## Nelsun (19 Dec 2019)

Oh no. Sorry to say, but that looks terrible! Why are you only finishing half the table top?





I'll get my coat... and make sure the door hits me several times on the way out  Looking forward to the final post Mike. Oh, and I'd call this a quick build if it were me.


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

Right, where were we? Ah yes.....

Having assembled the frame, I made a quick softwood frame for the drawer runners:











Time to take a few deep breaths and cut the table top to size. I never used to get nervous going out to bat in a crisis in front of 20,000 people and a TV audience, but I sure as hell get nervous with stuff like this. I thought about how I was going to do this days in advance. First job was to make a really accurate template:





















After placing the template in position on the table top, I used the appropriate sized forstner bit to locate the hole for the corner of the leg cut-outs. Remember, the legs have an aggressive round over:






I secured a guide in place (I can tell you this took ages, checking, re-checking, taking it apart and starting again....):
















After completing the little straight cuts with a tenon saw (no photo), I did a trial fit. It dropped in first time......which isn't necessarily a good thing. However, three of the cut outs were absolutely perfect, and one was a gnat's slack. Much better than I hoped!! Phew:











This is the not-quite-perfect one:






As if that wasn't enough to give me palpitations, next came the step which I'd been dreading from the moment I selected the timber: filling the top. First, I built little dam walls around all of the cracks with hot-melt glue:











I also taped up the ends of cracks where they showed on the end grain, or glued on some temporary dams of off-cuts of hardboard. Remember the cracks in the underside had already been filled with a cheap filler.

Then I mixed some of this:






...with some of this:






.........and trickled it into the cracks:
















There's actually a little more to it than that. I did the bigger cracks in two pours, using just clear resin for the first bit, to within about 6 or 8 mm of the surface, then came back with the brass-filled resin the following day. Whilst that lot dried, I did secondary jobs such as making oak buttons:






.......and the little strap thingies for the drawer handles:











I hate wasting this precious timber, and I couldn't find any dark brown amongst my off cuts, so I had to generate some from the middle of a board.......hence the saw handles.






Marking out is such a pain on this dark wood, so once again.....masking tape. 











Back to the table top. I sanded off the bulk of the resin:






Unfortunately, there were 3 or 4 low spots, including a couple on end-grain. Time for another pour:






Whilst that was drying I got on with finishing the rest of the table. My wife tells me that my workshop would have been uninhabitable by anyone with a sense of smell because of the resin, so there is the occasional bonus from not having one. Oil/ varnish/ white spirit mix on everything, then wipe it off within 7 minutes:






This Stanley no. 80 cabinet scraper was an absolute godsend:
















I screwed some little blocks onto the ends of the table legs so that I could finish easily all the way done to the bottom:











Back to the top:
















The brass is showing up matt and greenish in these photos. I've no idea why, because in real life it is satin and metallic.

Now, take a close look at this next photo. In sanding down the filler I finished off with 180 grit paper. This next picture shows the difference between sanding and finishing with a blade. The lower half (closer to the viewer) is sanded. The upper part (further away) is scraped. The sanded area looks dull and matt. The scraped wood looks glossy and bright:






I thinks that's rather persuasive, personally.

I hated doing this:






All my planes are razor sharp and well set, and normally end grain is a doddle. It wasn't with this stuff. In the end I had to just get it good enough and then stop, because I was in danger of going past my lines. It isn't the easiest wood to work with.

You've seen this before:






But not this:






I did a final assemble and minor adjustments, and brought it into the house. The body of the table and the drawers have had 4 coats of finish. I might just do one final coat on the drawer fronts and handles. The table top has only had one, so is just sitting in position for the sake of these photos:









































The strap thingies over the drawer handles are just hot-melt glued in place temporarily, awaiting a committee decision. 

Finally, there is a gap here which is crying out for a matching end table, so watch this space:


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## Steve Maskery (19 Dec 2019)

Absoluetly excellent, Mike, really beautiful.


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## AndyT (19 Dec 2019)

Bloody marvellous!

I can't see any gap on the gappy leg and I bet nobody except you will.

I was doubtful about the brass fill but now that the top is so beautifully dark, it all makes sense.

Thanks for sharing the journey, especially the worrying bits and the useful tips passed on.

=D> =D> =D>


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

AndyT":mxoha3w8 said:


> ......I was doubtful about the brass fill.......



*You* were doubtful! :lol:


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## Racers (19 Dec 2019)

Very nice Mike, I didn't think the oak legs would work but I was wrong.

Are you planning a scaled down version for the side table?

Pete


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

I haven't really thought about that one yet Pete, but I suspect it would be taller and "lighter" (ie slim legs, slim apron, slimmer top), maybe without a drawer. I've got a staircase to make first, but I'll open the conversation about the side table with my wife this evening.


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## sploo (19 Dec 2019)

Very nice work. Love the contrast between the two oaks, and the drawer handle design.


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## thetyreman (19 Dec 2019)

incredible mike =D> I like the style a lot as well as the choice of timber.


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

Thanks guys.


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## Hattori-Hanzo (19 Dec 2019)

Excellent work Mike that's a beautiful table.
Happy to see what the brass powder was used for, that's a nice effect and adds another dimension to the bog oak.


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## whiskywill (19 Dec 2019)

A very nice table but have you noticed that somebody has stolen your skirting boards? :shock:


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## Nelsun (19 Dec 2019)

Very nice indeed. You'll have plenty time now to get that staircase made before :ho2 :deer :deer :deer appears (hammer)


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## MusicMan (19 Dec 2019)

First class work, Mike, and a great use of rare and precious material.

Keith


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

whiskywill":3mlhcp4j said:


> A very nice table but have you noticed that somebody has stolen your skirting boards? :shock:



:lol: :lol: 

There were no skirting boards in the original cottage, so I didn't put any in the extension.


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## Racers (19 Dec 2019)

MikeG.":1ot68lkz said:


> I haven't really thought about that one yet Pete, but I suspect it would be taller and "lighter" (ie slim legs, slim apron, slimmer top), maybe without a drawer. I've got a staircase to make first, but I'll open the conversation about the side table with my wife this evening.



Single draw would be good, make an invisable one, one that just looks like a rail but you can open it by hooking your fingers underneath the edge and pulling.

Pete


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

Racers":gxlq72q7 said:


> MikeG.":gxlq72q7 said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't really thought about that one yet Pete, but I suspect it would be taller and "lighter" (ie slim legs, slim apron, slimmer top), maybe without a drawer. I've got a staircase to make first, but I'll open the conversation about the side table with my wife this evening.
> ...



I'd hate that, Pete. Not the look, but what that structure implies. I know how weak legs are, and to know that there was nothing preventing the front ones from racking would give me the heeby jeebies.


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## Steliz (19 Dec 2019)

Very nice table and the finish is also lovely. Thanks for posting this WIP.


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## Racers (19 Dec 2019)

MikeG.":1dn7ffkm said:


> Racers":1dn7ffkm said:
> 
> 
> > MikeG.":1dn7ffkm said:
> ...



I would make a normal draw opening with stretchers but with a draw front that covers them. 

Pete


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

Oh I see. Well yes, I guess that's feasible.


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## Lons (19 Dec 2019)

Absolutely love it Mike. 

Now you've learned how to do it you'll have that side table finished by Christmas ( this year! ) :lol:


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

:lol: :lol: 

Erm......if I were to start another piece of furniture instead of doing the stairs I might just run into a modicum of displeasure from the other half of the design team. I only got the chance to make this because I stuffed my back and couldn't handle the big bits of wood necessary for the staircase.


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## Lons (19 Dec 2019)

With your experience surely you can bat away a few objections from the boss. :wink:


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## Racers (19 Dec 2019)

Lons":3nacx6kd said:


> With your experience surely you can bat away a few objections from the boss. :wink:



Howzat going to work?

:wink: 

Pete


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## MikeG. (19 Dec 2019)

No, the stairs are the priority, without a doubt. In fact, although there will be a lot more machining, I can't wait to get on with them.


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## Orraloon (20 Dec 2019)

A really great build with plenty of pictures and everything well explained. Enjoyed watching this unfold and learned something along the way.
Regards
John


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## John15 (20 Dec 2019)

Congratulations Mike. A really beautiful piece of furniture.

John


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## sammy.se (20 Dec 2019)

Very elegant and unique, and the colours are beautiful - even with the camera flash.

Great to see your WIP as well, thanks for sharing with us.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk


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## MikeG. (20 Dec 2019)

Thanks fella, much appreciated.

Now, you get the choice of blurry because of an extremely slow shutter speed, or glary and colour-distorted because of flash.......but I added some dome headed brass screws to the handles:












The table top is back out in the workshop for the continuation of the finish regime.


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## AndyT (20 Dec 2019)

I think I still prefer the simplicity of just the carved strap pulls on their own. The extra bits distract from their elegant shape and look too much like something off a suitcase, in my opinion, but I know how hard it is to get this sort of detail right. And looking at it close up on a screen is not the same as seeing it across a room.


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## MikeG. (20 Dec 2019)

Fair comment. This isn't a (bog  ) standard design, so some or all of it isn't going to be to everyone's taste. However, we like the look of those, being just a little quirky on an otherwise fairly flat facade. When viewed as a whole, they are pretty discreet on a fair sized piece of furniture.


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## Sheffield Tony (20 Dec 2019)

Very nice looking result. The colours really come to life with the finish, and the legs somehow fall into place.

A question about the top with the through legs. You must be very confident that top is not going to shrink or swell much ? Is there not a contradiction in using buttons to attach it (device to allow movement), then a design where any movement will open gaps between the top and the legs, or push the legs apart ? 

Perhaps bog oak is stable enough. We have a nest of tables in oak, with the same feature. Not made by me, from John Lewis. The legs are attached with bolts and metal brackets across the corners, and they do go slightly bandy-legged in damp weather ...


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## MikeG. (20 Dec 2019)

Very good question.

I had a piece of bog oak inside for 3 or 4 months, and measured it to the 1/100th of a mm before and after. It shrank less than a 10th of a mm. Custard of this parish took moisture measurements when he bought a load of the bog oak from me, and got figures of 10 to 12%, and this despite it standing in an open-sided barn for the last 20 years. All I can conclude from this is that this timber is now very stable. With a super-insulated house and a whole house ventilation system, we have an extremely stable internal environment. I have a cross-grain humidity indicator in the house which hasn't moved since I made it. So the only thing which I can see affecting the table is the woodburner in the same room, which might induce a little shrinkage. I can't see any possibility of expansion from the current dimensions. That's the reason for the buttons. There is a secondary reason, which is that posting on a woodworking site I am conscious that people might copy aspects of the design but in a different set of conditions, and so I try to do the right thing even if unnecessary in my circumstances.

I did consider having a gap parallel to the leg profile, say 3 or 4mm, but thought this could only ever be a dust trap and spider hidey-hole. I also considered emphasising the join by using a band of contrasting timber in the table top to surround the legs, but I think that would have been visually OTT. If I was building this table for someone else in an unknown or less stable environment, I'd possibly have a think about including some compressible material in the junction between the legs and the tabletop. Five or 6 mm of black rubber done neatly could provide a good solution, perhaps, and would be very straightforward to do.


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## Sheffield Tony (20 Dec 2019)

I knew you would have thought about it and have a good answer :wink: But as you say about the buttons, perhaps worth the explanation for anyone else following that design idea.


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## MusicMan (20 Dec 2019)

The limited information on very old wood does indicate that it is much more stable to humidity changes than new (less than 50 year) old wood. I have observed this in 200 year old musical instruments and restorations of 250 year old oak furniture (e.g. a shrinkage of at least 1 cm in 60 cm was not recovered by 25 years in a dampish shed). Richard Jones' (Sgian Dubh) wonderful book 'Cut and Dried' also discusses this phenomenon and gives further references on pp 86-88. 

Bog oak, along with some historic (archaeological) furniture, is about as old a wood as you can get. I strongly suspect that it will be extremely stable against variations of humidity. It would be great, MikeG, if you could continue your measurements of humidity and shrinkage in bog oak for a few decades .

Almost all of the information that we have on humidity and shrinkage comes from modern research for the timber and forestry industry or from woodworkers' experience over their lifetimes, and the rules we learn from these sources probably don't apply to wood that is significantly older.

Keith


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## MikeG. (20 Dec 2019)

MusicMan":1swr4lqu said:


> ....... It would be great, MikeG, if you could continue your measurements of humidity and shrinkage in bog oak for a few decades ........



That's actually possible. The table itself will measure shrinkage (there'll be a gap where there isn't one now). And the reaction to changes in humidity could be done by making a bog oak cross-grain hygrometer and hanging it alongside the parana pine one I have in my workshop. If they react differently then that will tell a tale:


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## MusicMan (20 Dec 2019)

MikeG.":1p1pwt4n said:


> MusicMan":1p1pwt4n said:
> 
> 
> > ....... It would be great, MikeG, if you could continue your measurements of humidity and shrinkage in bog oak for a few decades ........
> ...



That would be brilliant! Keep us posted!


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## NickM (20 Dec 2019)

Talking of old wood:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-50840134

I'm sure Mike could find something there to make some more tables from...

On a serious note, I've really enjoyed following this thread.


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## Lons (20 Dec 2019)

MusicMan":9gk241om said:


> MikeG.":9gk241om said:
> 
> 
> > MusicMan":9gk241om said:
> ...


Some of us might not be around in a few decades to see the results.


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## MusicMan (21 Dec 2019)

No, I shan't either. But that's really irrelevant, and really long term experiments have to be handed down the generations.


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## Bm101 (21 Dec 2019)

Thanks for taking the time and effort to post Mike. Thoroughly enjoyed it from start to finish.


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## Nick (22 Dec 2019)

Appreciate you posting the journey here Mike. Fascinating read, and I’ve learned a bit from you in the process. 

Love the look of the table, and using ancient wood with a story or two behind it is great. 

Hope your back sorts itself out fella. 

Cheers,

Nick


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## MikeG. (22 Dec 2019)

Nick":hpqv69dv said:


> .......Hope your back sorts itself out fella.........



Thanks Nick. It's 100% now.


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## W666 (31 Dec 2019)

Very nice!

Where do people get hold of bog oak usually?


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## Steve Maskery (31 Dec 2019)

Off Mike!


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## MissGerman (9 Jan 2020)

Awesome man. Cant figure out how to quote people on here but to the poster who put the pic of the gold leaf up on the wood, thats really cool and I'm stealing your idea hehe


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## MikeG. (9 Jan 2020)

MissGerman":3cx78qx2 said:


> Awesome man.



Thank you.



> Cant figure out how to quote people on here



There are three blue rectangles in the top right hand corner of each post (left hand one is "report", middle one is "like"). The right hand one of the three is "quote".



> but to the poster who put the pic of the gold leaf up on the wood, thats really cool and I'm stealing your idea hehe



Hmmmm........there's no gold leaf on the table. I wonder what you are referring to.


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## AJB Temple (9 Jan 2020)

Really nice quality work Mike. Excellent thread. AJ


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## custard (9 Jan 2020)

That's a really lovely project Mike, it's pretty special to be working with timber that's older than the pyramids!

=D>


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## MikeG. (9 Jan 2020)

Thanks Custard, AJB. Much appreciated.


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## Bm101 (10 Jan 2020)

MikeG.":djrmbgom said:


> Hmmmm........there's no gold leaf on the table. I wonder what you are referring to.


Think that's way back on page 1 Mike. Bottom of the earring box I made for the Mrs for Christmas posted as a suggestion for copper leaf. 
It's got bog oak in it too by chance.
And oak burl. And maple. And London plane. 
Bit busy tbh for my taste but it kind of evolved as it went. She seemed happy and I learnt a bit so all's well.
Rather than post images there's a link so I don't clutter your proper woodwork thread with my clutching of straws. That way people don't have to look. #-o 
https://imgur.com/a/oodjOSa


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## MikeG. (10 Jan 2020)

Bm101":3tcllzy7 said:


> ......Think that's way back on page 1 Mike.



Ah right, thanks.



> And oak burl......



:shock: :shock: :shock: (hammer) 
Final warning. It's burr here in Blighty. Burl is an Americanism. Next time, I nuke you from orbit, OK? 




:lol:


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## Bm101 (10 Jan 2020)

Bill Bryson reckoned Aluminium was properly pronounced the American way. Aloominum. That was it. Aloominum. After that you had to bow to originals. 
But not burr. Fair enough. Learnt summat new again. 
Making mistakes. It's one of my vises. 
:wink:


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## Lons (10 Jan 2020)

Bm101":1grw13b5 said:


> Making mistakes. It's one of my vises.
> :wink:



If that last word was deliberate and ironic BM it was very clever. Otherwise another US... ism :wink:


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## MikeG. (10 Jan 2020)

That's how he earned a "like" from me....the assumption that he was being deliberate and ironic. If he wasn't, then I'm now just plugging his co-ordinates into my space-based nuclear weapon system.


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## Lons (10 Jan 2020)

MikeG.":1lrm7yaj said:


> That's how he earned a "like" from me....the assumption that he was being deliberate and ironic. If he wasn't, then I'm now just plugging his co-ordinates into my space-based nuclear weapon system.


Sh*t
Just realised I need to proof read everything I write from now on. You have my address also. #-o

Did I tell you that pen has an inbuilt remote controlled explosive device and I still have the remote? :wink:


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## MikeG. (10 Jan 2020)

Don't worry, your malevolent overlord can be munificent in his generosity, particularly in response to the showering of gifts. You've earned the right to use a couple of Americanisms before feeling the might of my righteous and mighty wrath.

:lol: :lol:


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## Bm101 (10 Jan 2020)

Lons":ervvjm38 said:


> Bm101":ervvjm38 said:
> 
> 
> > Making mistakes. It's one of my vises.
> ...


Your have two make you're owned mined up on that won Lons.
:-"


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## Lons (10 Jan 2020)

Bm101":bmsj5yd4 said:


> Your have two make you're owned mined up on that won Lons.
> :-"


I'll be watching the news tonight for reports of a large nuclear explosion in the Herts area. 
I'm safe as there is a deterrent sitting on Mikes' desk.

PS. Are you a Geordie in exile? I know a few not too far from here who write exactly like that. :lol:


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## Bm101 (10 Jan 2020)

Now you mention it.
Why, I never would have thought it.


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