# Dust extraction



## Peter907 (7 Sep 2022)

Looks like I'm going to be spending some time at my scroll saw from now on, so I'm concerned about the dangers of breathing in fine dust. Through my big illuminated magnifier I can plainly watch the dust coming off the wood and floating around, and I just came out of my small garage/workshop doing a bit of coughing. I have a cheap Titan vac which is fine for my other saws and sanding etc., but it is so noisy. Not a problem with those tools as usually they are not on for long periods. Working on the scroll saw, I don't want to be listening to that noise and would rather hear the radio instead. I know I could wear a mask, and have a good Elipse mask with two replaceable filters, but don't enjoy wearing it. I already have some ideas for making a lower power, low noise dust extraction system to fit to the scroll saw, using a quiet but powerful blower fan pulling air through a small dust cyclone, but can't be certain it will be up to the job. I'm sure someone on this forum must be way ahead of me regarding low noise extraction just for a scroll saw. Any ideas or tried and tested solutions would be helpful.


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## Inspector (7 Sep 2022)

Peter the desire to have powerful and quiet don't go hand in hand unfortunately. If you have a small pickup (vacuum cleaner of some sort) it is noisy and if cutting small bits like veneer will scoop them up and whisk them away. Same goes for a dust collector with a 100mm duct. A large pickup moving a lot of air can be quiet but needs more room and it won't work with a cyclone. Think room air filter with a big diameter hose that won't choke the filter running down to and above the saw. It will still have some noise but nothing like the shop vac. It is something you could make with a squirrel cage fan (like from a central heater) drawing the air through one or two 6" or bigger hose/s (bell mouth on the end for smooth air intake) and blowing into a cartridge filter like the large ones used on dust collectors. That should capture the dust coming off the scroll saw before it gets to your snoot without sucking up your projects. You might want to wear muffs with a radio in them but that would be up to you depending what you use to gather the dust. A room air filter alone means you are breathing the dust at the same time, usually first as it goes by your face.

Pete


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## SaintD56 (7 Sep 2022)

Peter907 said:


> Looks like I'm going to be spending some time at my scroll saw from now on, so I'm concerned about the dangers of breathing in fine dust. Through my big illuminated magnifier I can plainly watch the dust coming off the wood and floating around, and I just came out of my small garage/workshop doing a bit of coughing. I have a cheap Titan vac which is fine for my other saws and sanding etc., but it is so noisy. Not a problem with those tools as usually they are not on for long periods. Working on the scroll saw, I don't want to be listening to that noise and would rather hear the radio instead. I know I could wear a mask, and have a good Elipse mask with two replaceable filters, but don't enjoy wearing it. I already have some ideas for making a lower power, low noise dust extraction system to fit to the scroll saw, using a quiet but powerful blower fan pulling air through a small dust cyclone, but can't be certain it will be up to the job. I'm sure someone on this forum must be way ahead of me regarding low noise extraction just for a scroll saw. Any ideas or tried and tested solutions would be helpful.


I use a 1 gallon, shop vac underneath my stand, the black loc-line attached is from saltwater fish tank, this draws the dust down through where the blade is. I have the shop vac hooked up to a cyclone and bucket, that catches the fine dust. I use a standard box fan with a furnace filter at table level to catch dust from above. Opposite on the other side of my scroll saw I have another fan blowing the dust off and away from me. To some this might be ex-stream but I'm 66 years old and I plan on being around a few mor years if the good Lord wills.
Have A Great Day and scroll away


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## SaintD56 (7 Sep 2022)

SaintD56 said:


> I use a 1 gallon, shop vac underneath my stand, the black loc-line attached is from saltwater fish tank, this draws the dust down through where the blade is. I have the shop vac hooked up to a cyclone and bucket, that catches the fine dust. I use a standard box fan with a furnace filter at table level to catch dust from above. Opposite on the other side of my scroll saw I have another fan blowing the dust off and away from me. To some this might be ex-stream but I'm 66 years old and I plan on being around a few mor years if the good Lord wills.
> Have A Great Day and scroll away


As for noise, good luck I use earmuffs


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## Peter907 (7 Sep 2022)

*Thank you @Inspector and @SaintD56.
It hadn't occurred to me to wear my Bluetooth headphones, but that will at least let me have music despite the noise of my shop vac.
The photos show what I have scraped together so far to try to build my scrollsaw quiet dust extraction system. The small cyclone is still on the slow boat from China but I should have it within a week or so. The 120mm blower fan is surprisingly powerful and very quiet, but I'm not sure how well it will perform when I convert it to suck air through the cyclone. In theory, the numbers work, the CFM of the fan is greater than the minimum CFM required by the cyclone. But, of course, I'm not going to be using the blower fan in the manner it was intended to be used. I plan to have a splitter so I can have one Loc Line pipe above the table and one below.
I do like the suggestion from both of you of also having a big room fan drawing an air flow through a filter away from the mouth and nose.
And @SaintD56 I don't consider any of this as being extreme when it comes to protecting ones health, and like the idea of using braces as well as a belt . I'm 63, newly retired and feeling happier and healthier now than than I've felt for many years, so long may that continue.
If my quiet blower fan doesn't do the job, I might even find a way of housing my noisy shop vac undercover outside where I can't hear it so much.*


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## SaintD56 (8 Sep 2022)

Sounds like a plan, if it does not work out do what I do, go to plan B what ever that might be.
Have A Great Day.


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## Jaco (8 Sep 2022)

Have a look at this one, I am still trying other options with smaller fans but 2 inline.





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TheWoodHaven2 • View topic - H-R Dust Extraction - Mk 1







www.thewoodhaven2.co.uk


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## Peter907 (8 Sep 2022)

Thanks @Jaco I will do a mock up and give that method a go. It looks nice and simple and might even work better that my ideas .


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## Bungalowbill63 (8 Sep 2022)

We should all be careful of the scrolling dust danger.
I have a flexible hose system for my saws which works extremely well, my dust extractor is installed in a weatherproof cabinet outside.
In my workshop I have a dust free quiet workspace and can listen to the radio or cd whilst cutting and also not too much noise outside either!


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## Rene Mopper (8 Sep 2022)

Bungalowbill63 said:


> We should all be careful of the scrolling dust danger.


Thats very true. And the reason why i have made top and bottom suction on my Hegner. Works perfectly and now i can saw Mdf without any worries.


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## Andy's Shed (8 Sep 2022)

Peter907 said:


> *Thank you @Inspector and @SaintD56.
> It hadn't occurred to me to wear my Bluetooth headphones, but that will at least let me have music despite the noise of my shop vac.
> The photos show what I have scraped together so far to try to build my scrollsaw quiet dust extraction system. The small cyclone is still on the slow boat from China but I should have it within a week or so. The 120mm blower fan is surprisingly powerful and very quiet, but I'm not sure how well it will perform when I convert it to suck air through the cyclone. In theory, the numbers work, the CFM of the fan is greater than the minimum CFM required by the cyclone. But, of course, I'm not going to be using the blower fan in the manner it was intended to be used. I plan to have a splitter so I can have one Loc Line pipe above the table and one below.
> I do like the suggestion from both of you of also having a big room fan drawing an air flow through a filter away from the mouth and nose.
> ...


I've spent most of today building an enclosure for my Scheppach shop vac, it doesn't half make a racket. My shed is quite close to our house and next door too, so I'm really hoping I haven't wasted my efforts.

I'll line the enclosure with some carpet offcuts at the weekend and see if it's has made any difference


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## Inspector (8 Sep 2022)

Andy's Shed said:


> I've spent most of today building an enclosure for my Scheppach shop vac, it doesn't half make a racket. My shed is quite close to our house and next door too, so I'm really hoping I haven't wasted my efforts.
> 
> I'll line the enclosure with some carpet offcuts at the weekend and see if it's has made any difference


I hope you have made a way for the air to get out. If not it will overheat in addition to the airflow being reduced because there is no where for it to go. The easiest way to cut the noise of the air coming out is to make it take a few bends through baffles that you also line with carpet. They need to be at least 3 times larger than the air pipe going in as it is slowing down and expanding as it does.

Pete


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## SaintD56 (9 Sep 2022)

Lot of great ideals out here, Iam going to take another look at my system, might be time for an update. If there are mor pictures to share, please post them. They are informative and exciting to see what other people with scroll saws are doing to stay safe from dust. Be safe and Have A Great Day.


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## Andy's Shed (9 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> I hope you have made a way for the air to get out. If not it will overheat in addition to the airflow being reduced because there is no where for it to go. The easiest way to cut the noise of the air coming out is to make it take a few bends through baffles that you also line with carpet. They need to be at least 3 times larger than the air pipe going in as it is slowing down and expanding as it does.
> 
> Pete


I've added a baffle box on the rear, just some battens at odd angles, but no carpet in that part. I could add some afterwards if needed.

It's a bit of an experiment.


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## Inspector (9 Sep 2022)

Here is a link to another forum's sticky that discusses noise reduction and the way to organize the baffles. Yours look a little tight for the air to flow easily. You're on the right track though.

#6

Pete


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## Andy's Shed (9 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> Here is a link to another forum's sticky that discusses noise reduction and the way to organize the baffles. Yours look a little tight for the air to flow easily. You're on the right track though.
> 
> #6
> 
> Pete


Thanks Pete, I'll do some test runs and use an App to measure the differences, hopefully I won't have wasted my time


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## danst96 (9 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> Peter the desire to have powerful and quiet don't go hand in hand unfortunately


The exception to this is the festool CT extractors. They are remarkably quiet and powerful


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## Inspector (9 Sep 2022)

danst96 said:


> The exception to this is the festool CT extractors. They are remarkably quiet and powerful


It's a terminology thing.  I call them vacuum cleaners and this a dust collector. Extractor is a term that is a crossover for both that came into usage here a couple decades ago when Festool and Fien started to show up and the dual usage just confuses people as to what is being discussed and needed. 

Pete


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## danst96 (9 Sep 2022)

Inspector said:


> It's a terminology thing.  I call them vacuum cleaners and this a dust collector. Extractor is a term that is a crossover for both that came into usage here a couple decades ago when Festool and Fien started to show up and the dual usage just confuses people as to what is being discussed and needed.
> 
> Pete


Fair enough, I would think the festool CT should be adequate for a across saw though. If you have the budget that is


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## Peter907 (9 Sep 2022)

The slow boat from China must've had a tail wind. Got my tiny dust cyclone today, a good week earlier than Amazon was telling me to expect it. I'm away in Newcastle for the weekend to watch my daughter doing the Great North Run, so building my quiet dust extraction system will have to wait till next week. I think it looks really neat, just like a turbocharger .


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## SaintD56 (9 Sep 2022)

SaintD56 said:


> Sounds like a plan, if it does not work out do what I do, go to plan B what ever that might be.
> Have A Great Day.





Peter907 said:


> The slow boat from China must've had a tail wind. Got my tiny dust cyclone today, a good week earlier than Amazon was telling me to expect it. I'm away in Newcastle for the weekend to watch my daughter doing the Great North Run, so building my quiet dust extraction system will have to wait till next week. I think it looks really neat, just like a turbocharger .


Look's nice, what is that cyclone made out of? it looks sort of like aluminum. How does this hook up?
When you get it up and running, everyone would like to see pictures, or I know I would for sure.
Have fun and A Great Day.


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## Peter907 (10 Sep 2022)

@SaintD56 I will post some pics when I make it.

It is all aluminium or possibly even aluminum .

Here's a schematic of the general idea...


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## SaintD56 (10 Sep 2022)

Peter907 said:


> @SaintD56 I will post some pics when I make it.
> 
> It is all aluminium or possibly even aluminum .
> 
> Here's a schematic of the general idea...


Got a question, where that exits, is that some type of filter? cant wait for pic's
Have A Great Day.


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## Peter907 (10 Sep 2022)

SaintD56 said:


> Got a question, where that exits, is that some type of filter? cant wait for pic's
> Have A Great Day.


The lower container should collect 99.9% of the dust, extremely fine particles may still get through so a fine filter is placed at the air outlet.


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## Peter907 (7 Oct 2022)

My quiet dust extraction system is a success .

It is whisper quiet, and once the Hegner is started, the blower fan can't be heard at all. I've checked with a torch below and above the table whilst cutting, and there is now ZERO atmospheric dust. The dust is now sucked away instantly at the source. Some of the heavier dust still drops, but all the dust that used to obscure the cutting line is taken away immediately. My bellows has hardened over time and wasn't doing its job anyway, so now I won't need to bother buying new bellows. I've watched the blower outlet closely to see if any dust is getting all the way through the dust cyclone and out again, but see nothing, it all collects in the box below the cyclone. Even so, my next little job is to make an adaptor to fit the dust bag from my electric planer over the outlet just in case.

At some stage I may try a slightly more powerful fan, like a bathroom ceiling fan that may even remove all the heavier stuff, but for now I'm really pleased and feel safe to scroll without a dust mask.

Here's some pics...


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## SaintD56 (8 Oct 2022)

Nice job, I like the work that you have put into this project. You are definitely an inspiration to the scroll saw community, thank you for your time and effort making your ideals and finished project available to us. Now I have new ideals for my own set up thanks to you. Have A Great Day.


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## Molynoox (8 Oct 2022)

That's a really cool project, well done  
it would be interesting to have one of those air quality monitors available so you could test it with and without the planer filter bag in place


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## Molynoox (8 Oct 2022)

Inspector said:


> Here is a link to another forum's sticky that discusses noise reduction and the way to organize the baffles. Yours look a little tight for the air to flow easily. You're on the right track though.
> 
> #6
> 
> Pete


I found that forum hard going, the pictures are all clickable only as opposed to embedded, makes it really hard work! Maybe I'm just too lazy but despite being interested in the information I just gave up looking...


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## Inspector (8 Oct 2022)

Molynoox said:


> I found that forum hard going, the pictures are all clickable only as opposed to embedded, makes it really hard work! Maybe I'm just too lazy but despite being interested in the information I just gave up looking...


I’ve been on woodworking forums for a couple decades and evolved with them. Clicking on a picture is fine by me. My pet peeve is with people that don’t resize pictures to something that will load faster. I don’t have super fast internet so the big ones take forever to load. Too long on something that isn’t real important and I stop and read another thread so I sort of understand but not really. 

Pete


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