# Advice on plasterboarding a ceiling please



## rocksteadyeddy (14 Apr 2010)

As of tomorrow the ceiling in the lounge is coming down due to asbestos in the artex and a leak and an insurance claim....... but that is a different story! :roll: 
Anyway i've decided to do most of the repairs myself and having not done any drylining before i'm looking for a few pointers?

i've had a nose round the web and as far as I can tell its better to use thicker 12.5mm stuff for the ceiling and I know to stagger the boards but really its more the jointing i'm a bit sketchy about?
Going to use screws spaced around 400mm ( Is this about right?)

Also the ceiling goes up the stairs a few feet at an angle so do I need to use something on the angle joint to reinforce it?

I'm not going to attempt any plastering so will be getting someone in to skim it afterwards.

Any advice or pointers greatly appreciated! 

Cheers Edd.


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## woodguy7 (14 Apr 2010)

Ok Edd

Fist off you need to use a minimum screw lenth of 35mm & they must be drywall screws with the course thread & the bugle head. The spacing for a ceiling should be 150mm for ceilings & 225mm for walls. Class the angle of the stair as a ceiling. The sheets should be staggered as you say & always join half on a joist. Along the edges must have a row of 45mm x 45mm "dwangs" (i think they are called noggins in england) half in on the edge of the sheet so you can screw the edges also. Where the angle meets the horizontal, you need to make an angled fillet so that all edges can be screwed.

Hope this makes some kind of sense

Woodguy.


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## rocksteadyeddy (14 Apr 2010)

Thanks woodguy, very useful but it is still more the jointing between the boards i'm concerned about :duno: As in what i need to do in preparation for getting it skimmed?

Cheers Edd


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## woodguy7 (14 Apr 2010)

What we used to do is put 2 nails at the end of the sheet then butt the next sheet against the nails which leaves approx 3 to 4mm gap for the fillers to go into. Up north we don't plaster that much & everything just gets ames tapped so you don't need any gaps. I am not to sure on the prep for plaster, sorry. I would presume that they would want that slight gap all around the sheet for the first coat to go into though.

I did work alongside an old plaster once who always wanted the sheet on back to front with the brown side out. Not sure if this is still necessary but i'm am sure someone else here will have the answer.

Woodguy


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## StevieB (14 Apr 2010)

Woodguy - what does ames tapped mean? Not being facetious, I have a cellar I am boarding out with plasterboard and will not be getting plastered. I was planning to use tapered edge board and just fill the taper then either lining paper and paint or just paint depending on how the joints look. If there is a better method that gives a good finish it would be handy to know!

cheers,

Steve


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## TrimTheKing (14 Apr 2010)

If you are talking about the gaps between boards then don't they just run scrim tape over all the joints?


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## softtop (14 Apr 2010)

Yes you need scrim tape for the joints. Often the plasterer will put that on himself as they don't tend to trust other people to do it right. As long as the boards are flush next to each other (within 10mm) and secure (i.e. not flapping around where they meet but attached to a joist) then scrim tape is all you need.

Where you have the angle to the stairs it depends what finish you want - if you want a smooth curve then just use scrim tape. If you want a sharp edge you will need some metal edge beading. Again I'd get the plasterer to put it on (it goes on top of the boards) if you want it done right.

If you are using the tapered edge stuff again you scrim the joints then use that plasterboard filler and run it along the joints with your trowel and you should be fine without needing to skim the whole lot. It sands well too if you need to tidy it up!

Hope that's useful.


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## petermillard (14 Apr 2010)

StevieB":9ihbu2b8 said:


> Woodguy - what does ames tapped mean? Not being facetious, I have a cellar I am boarding out with plasterboard and will not be getting plastered. I was planning to use tapered edge board and just fill the taper then either lining paper and paint or just paint depending on how the joints look. If there is a better method that gives a good finish it would be handy to know!
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Steve



I think it's a typo for "Ames Taping" - as I understand it that's Scots for DryWalling  - which is what you're suggesting in your cellar.

It's generally what I do (especially since the plasterer I used to use moved abroad) but I use scrim tape as mentioned above, and jointing compound applied with a wide-blade filler-knife - the stuff you get from Wickes is pretty good. Let it dry overnight and rub it down lightly. If it's looking a bit lumpy, then Wallrock lining paper is particularly good at hiding imperfections.

HTH, Pete.


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## RogerS (14 Apr 2010)

If you're getting a plasterer in then it makes sense to ask him what he prefers as in my experience of using them on many projects is that they all have their preferences.

1) Does he want you to put a weak coat of unibond on the plasterboard before he arrives?

2) Are there any obvious areas where you will need some bonding going on prior to the skim coat? If so then it saves tme and money if you put that on yourself. 

3) Plastering bead...lots of different types so be careful you get the rght one and/or your plasterer has them with him. A lot don't.

4) Where the joint to existing plaster/walls are, it's usual to scrim tape that and he will then feather in a skim coat to cover. Otherwise you'll end up with a crack between ceiling and wall.

5) If the area is large think about hiring for a day a collated screwdriver as working upside down for any length of time is tiring if you're not used to it.

6) Don't worry about getting any cut joints perfectly lined up. You will be amazed at the gaps that plasterers will skim over...but again it depends on your plasterer.

9mm is customary for ceilings not 12.5 which is for walls.

Buy or hire plasterboard lifters to keep the boards up on the ceiling while you screw them up. Using these it is possible to put up 9mm 8x4 boards single-handed.

Make sure you put the board onto the joists the right side facing out.

Drywall boards are taper edged and designed to be scrim taped then just the tape applied with drylining stuff...not the whole board. You need the proper plasterboard.

Hope that helps....a waist belt with pockets for screws and screwdrivers is very handy.


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## woodguy7 (14 Apr 2010)

9.5mm is fine for ceilings if the joists are at 400mm centres. If they are at 600mm centres then you must always use 12mm plasterboard. Ames taping is not the "scots" for drywalling. Ames taping is where you use machines for applying the tape & fillers. When i say machines, the ones used for the fillers is just a series of boxes that get wider with each pass. You fill them up then press hard up to the ceiling then walk. Not a diy thing, it is an actual trade. We use the mesh tape on the flat seams & the paper tape on internal corners & at the ceiling. We use paper reinforced with strips of metal (steel edge tape) for the external corners.

I would agree with others, let the plasterer put his own beads on.

Woodguy.


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## StevieB (14 Apr 2010)

Thanks, useful to know.

Steve


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## Dibs-h (14 Apr 2010)

RogerS":28m2g6yn said:


> 9mm is customary for ceilings not 12.5 which is for walls.



Unless the works are being done to BR and 12.5mm is the only way I know of achieving 30 mins Fire resistance with FireLine board. I've never seen it in 9mm.

TBH - considering the cost of the board is marginal in the total cost, it would be foolish to not have the 30mins fire resistance, whether you have a family or not.

Dibs


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## superunknown (14 Apr 2010)

When i was putting up the plasterboard in my new extension last year we used 12.5 as this was specified by building control.


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## OldWood (14 Apr 2010)

RogerS said:


> .
> .
> 5) If the area is large think about hiring for a day a collated screwdriver as working upside down for any length of time is tiring if you're not used to it.
> .
> ...



Useful stuff Roger - thanks as I'm under the thumb at the moment to re-do our bedroom ceiling.

I've two questions - Roger; what's the plasterboard lifter? Is it basically a large scissor jack? I put up several 8 * 4 sheets onto my workshop ceiling single handed using a crude range of boxes, etc and it was not a good experience.

Secondly - I'm covering over an old lath and plaster ceiling which is pretty uneven and intend to put up 2 * 2 battens first to take out the unevenness; is this the right way to go about this?

Rob


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## RogerS (14 Apr 2010)

OldWood":27t6yciw said:


> RogerS":27t6yciw said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+To ... 140/p66745

How uneven is uneven? An inch or so? If it's irregular then most people would just fill with bonding


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## OldWood (14 Apr 2010)

I think at one stage it was two rooms (this is a 200yr old cottage) and there's an inverted ridge that runs down the centre which is over an inch deep, and is badly cracked.

Rob


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## Lons (14 Apr 2010)

I'd echo much of the advice given and would add the following:

We do a lot of dry lining to walls and ceilings and unless you are experienced, it can be a real pig as you will probably spend a lot of time sanding it down afterwards and I doubt you'll be completely happy with the finish.
Dry lining must be tapered edge boards with paper or more often now self adhesive mesh tape applied to the joints and use a proprietory joint filler. You'll still have the square end joints of the boards to contend with however.

If we are having the surfaces skimmed then we use square edge boards installed as others have advised and we always let our plasterer apply his own beads and scrim.

IMO a skimmed finish is usually superior to dry lined although the later is quicker and cheaper.

And... we always use 12.5mm boards. Not worth the cost difference not to.

Board lifter - definately handy if on your own but just as easy to borrow a mate for a few hours for ceilings and knock up a couple of T shaped supports as hold ups - ( and wear a woolly had 'cause you'll use your head as a support and wonder later why it's sore :lol: ).
The board lifters can be a bit awkward if the room is small.

Walls are easy. Just use a couple of wedges under the bottom of the board or make lifters or use a door lifter.

Bob


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## rocksteadyeddy (15 Apr 2010)

Thanks again everyone very helpful!

So am I right in thinking if its being skimmed I need the square edge boards with a few mm. 
Do I still need to joint them before the plasterer comes or can he do that at the same time?
Sorry to be a pain but just trying to save a few pennies you know how it is! :wink: 

Cheers again Edd.


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## Lons (15 Apr 2010)

rocksteadyeddy":wyg2q5ur said:


> Thanks again everyone very helpful!
> 
> So am I right in thinking if its being skimmed I need the square edge boards with a few mm.
> Do I still need to joint them before the plasterer comes or can he do that at the same time?
> ...



I stand to be corrected but:

Square edge = yes

Generally most plasterers prefer to apply their own tape and bead but talk to him first.
If it's not done properly, it takes time to put it right and he won't be happy (neither will your pocket).

Bob


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## RogerS (15 Apr 2010)

Lons":lln68nn6 said:


> rocksteadyeddy":lln68nn6 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks again everyone very helpful!
> ...



Absolutely spot on! Plasterers are a strange race :wink:


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## RogerS (15 Apr 2010)

OldWood":2fc05w7u said:


> I think at one stage it was two rooms (this is a 200yr old cottage) and there's an inverted ridge that runs down the centre which is over an inch deep, and is badly cracked.
> 
> Rob



Hi Rob...are we talking ground floor or first floor? Is it just the inverted ridge that is cracked?


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## OldWood (16 Apr 2010)

Hi Roger
Ground floor (of one!), and although the attic is partially floored for storage we rarely go over this section. I've just profiled the inverted ridge and it sticks out fully 1", tapering out over about 18". The ceiling in general is cracked so must be dealt with. One of the headaches is that the room height is 9'.

Rob


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## RogerS (16 Apr 2010)

Rob..question for you. It's an old propery..isn't the fact that things aren't level part of its' attraction? But I know what you mean! 

Most of the cracking will have come from movement over the years, shrinkage in the ceiling joists etc. Old properties usually had them made from elm or oak. More often than not, elm. How much upheaval can you stand? If you really want a flat ceiling then take down the old one, remove the old joists and replace with new. Job done. Unless it's listed....

Is the ceiling painted with...what? Distemper? Limewash? Scrim tape over the cracks, heavy coat of unibond and reskim the lot and live with the ridge.

Problem with retro-fitting battes is knowing where the old ones are..spacing was never that even...to fix the new ones to them.

Or glue/screw plasterboard - in varying layers - to remove most of the unevenness followed by a bonding coat to fill in the gaps then a reskim.

Without seeing it, it's hard to be more precise.


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## OldWood (16 Apr 2010)

Roger
You're being a bit dramatic - this is Scotland and even 200 years ago the Scots knew how to build rooves and the corresponding ceiling joists/ roof ties. Everything is regularly spaced, the timbers are 8 x 3 pine and there is plenty of wood to screw to. From the lack of evidence of movement in the timbers they were properly dried too. 

I take your point about a double layer of plaster board - that might be worth considering though it will mean some mighty long plasterboard screws - 3" available?

Rob


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## softtop (17 Apr 2010)

Surely it would be easier (and cheaper) to fit battens over the ceiling then a single sheet of plasterboard. When I've done this before I've run the battens at right angles to the existing joists and it doesn't matter if you have to make a few exploratory holes to work out where they are. Then use a long straight edge to get the battens nice and straight (shimming if necessary) before finally screwing the new pasterboard onto the battens and skimming.


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## OldWood (17 Apr 2010)

softtop said:


> Surely it would be easier (and cheaper) to fit battens over the ceiling then a single sheet of plasterboard. When I've done this before I've run the battens at right angles to the existing joists and it doesn't matter if you have to make a few exploratory holes to work out where they are. Then use a long straight edge to get the battens nice and straight (shimming if necessary) before finally screwing the new pasterboard onto the battens and skimming.



Yep, that's my thinking - I don't think I'm going to get long enough plasterboard screws. I think I'll look at hiring an autofeed screwdriver.

Rob


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## RogerS (17 Apr 2010)

OldWood":2g17okxp said:


> Roger
> You're being a bit dramatic - this is Scotland and even 200 years ago the Scots knew how to build rooves and the corresponding ceiling joists/ roof ties. .....



Oim be thinking about us country yokels then in Herefordshire. We'm not got straight edges.


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## BradNaylor (19 Apr 2010)

I wouldn't even contemplate doing it myself. A good plasterer will do a better job than you can in a quarter of the time. He'll also have all the gear.

Dry lining is one of those jobs which looks so easy until you try it yourself.


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## jhwbigley (19 Apr 2010)

BradNaylor":396mhnpp said:


> I wouldn't even contemplate doing it myself. A good plasterer will do a better job than you can in a quarter of the time. He'll also have all the gear.
> 
> Dry lining is one of those jobs which looks so easy until you try it yourself.



I've done a fair bit of dry lining, and the plasterer i use trusts me to put the plaster beads on.

With ceilings it taking time to get the first board right, as all the others follow on from it.







The only hard bit was the upstairs 






easy when you know how  

JH


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## Doug B (19 Apr 2010)

jhwbigley":2l1t9ovg said:


> The only hard bit was the upstairs
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That looks a handy space john, did you use tapered boards on the ceiling? i`d have slapped ya for that :lol: :lol:

Bout time ya hung them doors :shock: but it is looking damn fine, roll on the summer ah.

Cheers.

Doug.


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