# ORANGE - RESULT!!!



## RogerS (11 Sep 2006)

Big time. 

For four days I have not been able to either receive calls or make them. The local transmitter is down. Their faults database has conflicting information. They don't know when it will be back up. I can't get out of my contract to go elsewhere without incurring a penalty.

I used to think they were OK but now realise that they are just as bad as the rest of them.


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## ike (11 Sep 2006)

> but now realise that they are just as bad as the rest of them



Who and why are the "rest" "bad"? 

I use Virgin Mobile. They're not "bad". :? 

Ike


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## RogerS (11 Sep 2006)

Ike

I was a very early adopter of mobiles (as possibly you were) and used the system widely both abroad and here...I've been with vodafone, O2, T-mobile and Orange. I accept that things can go wrong from time to time..it's how the companies handle the problem that I measure them by and how easy they are to contact etc. And whether any niggles/lack of response is a one-off or endemic. Maybe I tended to ride the early-adopter curve for new servcies? I don't know..suffice ot say that one by one they don't step up to the mark....it's when things go pear shaped and they start referring to the small print that you realise that (a) they only try and offer you a service and (b) if you replace your handset, unless you're smart they will do anything to tie you into another contract..thus tying you in. 

So when something goes drastically wrong...as in my case...you are stuck with the contract. Basically the situation is that Orange were/are upgrading the transmitter...but reading between the lines something has gone pear-shaped, they can't/won't revert back to the status quo and they can't /won't give any indication as to when the service will be back upo and running.

Don't get me wrong...I don't chop and change willy-nilly..I have been with Orange for over ten years now...but I hate being held over a barrel ...as in this case.


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## ike (11 Sep 2006)

> I was a very early adopter of mobiles (as possibly you were)



Believe me, no mobile operator will get rich off me! :lol:


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## Colin C (12 Sep 2006)

Hi Roger
I have never been with orange but have been with T-Mobile ( Never again )and I am now with 3uk.

From what I have read, since Orange got bought out, they have gone down hill.
If you cant get out of the contract ( Try Trading standards to make sure ), make sure you get the money off your bill for the time you have lost.

I hope it gets sorted soon.
Colin


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## Noel (12 Sep 2006)

Roger, if you've been with Orange for that long and haven't changed contracts recently you should have no problem getting out of it. Orange may have different rules bit I thought once over 12 months you can leave with 1 month's notice.
Personally been with O2 for about 15 yrs now. They've been ok in most respects.

Noel


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## Anonymous (12 Sep 2006)

Been with O2 for years and no problems at all.

In all honesty, I don't like using mobile phones much but whenever I need it, it works fine


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## RogerS (12 Sep 2006)

Noel":130e6sk7 said:


> Roger, if you've been with Orange for that long and haven't changed contracts recently you should have no problem getting out of it. Orange may have different rules bit I thought once over 12 months you can leave with 1 month's notice.
> Personally been with O2 for about 15 yrs now. They've been ok in most respects.
> 
> Noel



Trouble is that when you upgrade your phone if you're not careful they tie you in to another year or longer contract DAMHIKT. I have decided that when the contract expires I will not renew but simply go on pay as you go. And try and limit my outgoing calls!


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## Colin C (12 Sep 2006)

Roger 
I am not trying to be nosey but how much do you spend on you mobile a month because you might get a very go deal from one of the other networks.

I am say this because you might get some heavy bills before you have got used to pay as you go ( sorry if I am teach you to suck eggs ), plus have you tried Ofcom about this.

T-moblie are doing some good deals at the moment and 3uk


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## RogerS (12 Sep 2006)

Colin..no worries  

T-mobile is out as signal strength for me at home is minute! Ditto 3.

Know what you mean...just need to retrain myself to pick up a normal phone and not automatically reach for the mobile!


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## Colin C (12 Sep 2006)

Roger 
I do know how you feel about being held over a barrel as T-Mobile did it to me and I will never go back to them and I hope it gets sorted soon :roll: [-o< 

Also how is the signal for O2 in your area as Tesco's are not bad for price


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## RogerS (13 Sep 2006)

Latest information is...well..err...there IS no latest information. 

Quote "technical support is aware that the site is downgraded but can't give any indication as to when the site will be fixed". 

I'll go and get my screwdriver out and fix it myself.

just fired this off...hope it gives you some amusement

"I have cancelled my direct debit until such time as I can use my phone again. My local transmitter is downgraded. I cannot make calls. I cannot receive calls. Your technical support are unable to say when the transmitter will be working properly. Why not? Do they know what the fault is? If not, why not? Are they lacking in experience? Surely you must have SOME technical people who are capable of identifying the fault? OK..so now you have identified the fault. So you're going to swap out either a faulty unit or module. What? You haven't got any in stock. Tsk...Tsk. OK...these things happen. So why haven't you asked your supplier how long it will be before you get a replacement module? You mean they don't know? OK...what about your second source supplier? Ah..your account is on hold. That explains it. 

I've been with Orange for a long time now. We've had our ups and downs but I've remained faithful and given you the benefit of the doubt and not moved. However, since you were taken over, your service has gone downhill and this little debacle has convinced me...roll on, November so I can go elsewhere."


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## Colin C (13 Sep 2006)

Hi Roger 
I would *not* cancell you direct debit as youwill find it will mess with you credit rating, because they *will* send your account to the receivers.

I would get in contact with Ofcom about and see what they can do for you.


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## RogerS (13 Sep 2006)

True..but before that happens, their code of conduct mandates them establishing a line of communication with me and that is when I can have a sensible dialogue with them about loss of service.


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## mr (13 Sep 2006)

Would be (pleasantly) suprised if they were prepared to enter into a discussion with you about loss of service when the line of communication they would establish with you would be purely for the purpose of pursuing payment from you. Can you not pursue a "breach of contract" angle instead? They appear to have removed or failed to supply services that they are contracted to you to provide, that should be enough. The contract, after all, works two ways.
Cheers Mike


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## RogerS (13 Sep 2006)

Mike

Their small print allows them to not supply any service ...it's a bit like the railway contract. They sell you a ticket and say that they will try and get you there...sometime...some day..


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## mr (13 Sep 2006)

I had a feeling you might say that and I have to say it doesnt overly suprise me. No one appears to want to take responsibility for services provided or anything else these days :/
Mike


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## Colin C (13 Sep 2006)

All the networks have this in they contract :shock: ( not sure how they can but they do ).
I would try Trading standards as not all that is in a contract is legal :roll: or Ofcom, would be your best bet.

I almost forgot to say :roll: .
Try Which ( the mag )as they have some power to help and it is about £15 a quarter to join. Its cheaper than paying off your contract


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## RogerS (14 Sep 2006)

Ofcom do not deal with individual consumer complaints. 

Re Which...having seen the indifference voiced by Which on their forums regarding the fraud aspects of CHIP'n'PIN, I don't hold out much hope.

I suspect that other mobile service providers may be affected if it is a shared mast. I guess my main gripe with Orange is the lack of information/total indifference. Their customer service used to be par excellence.


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## RogerS (16 Sep 2006)

Analysing alternatives. First pass..send this email and see what response I get

If I sign up to you and then find out that I cannot receive your normal standard phone/sms service in my home, can I cancel and get a refund?

O2 failed at the first pass as it is impossible to email them unless you are an O2 customer..or at least I failed to find out how to do this from their website.

Vodafone, T-mobile and Virgin both emailed. Who will be first to reply? 

T-mobile wanted my Date of Birth before I could post?! I think not. I am now officially 106 years old...


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## devonwoody (16 Sep 2006)

I never had a mobile phone when I was in business and I am glad they were not around at that time.
Would not worry me now if the whole industry shut downn!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Paul Chapman (16 Sep 2006)

Roger Sinden":soxek7lv said:


> Ofcom do not deal with individual consumer complaints.



But always worth registering your complaint with them. Ofcom is the regulator and if enough people complain (such as with the exhorbitant costs of calls to and from mobiles when overseas) something eventually gets done. Takes a long time, and doesn't deal with immediate problems, but if nobody complains the regulators tend to take the view that there isn't a problem :roll: 

Paul


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## RogerS (16 Sep 2006)

Paul Chapman":2d96riuu said:


> Roger Sinden":2d96riuu said:
> 
> 
> > Ofcom do not deal with individual consumer complaints.
> ...



Paul..totally agree with you and have already registered my complaint. Will also write formally to Orange to complain. Fascinating when you read the small print of all the providers...weasel words.


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## RogerS (20 Sep 2006)

And first past the post was VirginMobile...responding in under two days, followed by Vodafone a few hours later. A day later, T-mobile responded. All three give a minimum of a 14 day trial period or money back.

Chewing the cud with my local Orange shop in London, they commented that the whole Orange network is under severe pressure directly as a result of some aggressive marketing/prices for new customers that have recently been introduced. 

So a general question to any Orange customers out there and cross the country...have you experienced any reduction in service levels of late? Just curious.


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## Colin C (20 Sep 2006)

Roger 
If you want an anwser to that question look Here and also have a look a round the Orange part of the forum and make up your own mind.


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## RogerS (27 Sep 2006)

OK - transmitter still down and zero response from Orange. I checked out www.blagger.com for company ratings/moans/rants and, with the exception of Virgin Mobile, all the others get plenty of negative postings. 

So looks like I'll be moving to Virgin Mobile. Anyone else use them?


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## Anonymous (27 Sep 2006)

> Fascinating when you read the small print of all the providers...weasel words.



Unfortunately all large companies seem to have a pretty standard set of "weasel words", and usually they don't really care about individual customers, esp if its call centre based.

I know this from my experience, many years ago, working for a very large satalite TV provider.


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## Losos (27 Sep 2006)

Roger,

Orange really are the worst. They are totally in the hands of Nokia for their base station supplies, and yes they have NO second source supplier, incredible isn't it :?: 

I would suggest that the base station 'brain' (The unit which communicates with it's controller) has been removed but the new (Upgraded) one didn't work. They can't put the old one back 'cos the BSC (This is physically located 'down the line') will have also been upgraded and is handling the other ten or so & will only 'talk' to 'upgraded units.

So they (Orange) and you (And all the other users in your area) are waiting for some Finnish technician to get his finger out and send Orange a new working 'brain'

IMHO that will be difficult since in my experience (& I regretably have had some very close encounters with them) there are no brains in either company.


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## RogerS (27 Sep 2006)

Losos...what you say makes all the sense in the world.


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## Anonymous (28 Sep 2006)

All this talk of ofcom, trading standards, breah of contract etc. surprises me., is 4 days without a mobile phone (or any phone for that matter) really that important?

Is a lack of proportion creeping in?


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## RogerS (28 Sep 2006)

Tony

Where do you get the four days from? The local transmitter went pear-shaped a month ago on August 29th. No information as to when it will be fixed.

I resent paying for a service that I cannot get. Legalised theft.

Roger


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## Colin C (28 Sep 2006)

Tony
Please dont take this the wrong way but when you work for yourself, losing your mobile phone line for just a few days can ( has for me, lose me work and customers ).

So for some of us a mobile *is* very important


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## Noel (28 Sep 2006)

Got to agree with Colin. From a work point of view if I can't be contacted, even for a day, I lose deals and that's something I certainly can't afford.
I'm self employed, I have an office and that's it. No staff to talk to customers or supply information.
It's one of life's evils that most of society is "now, now, can't wait" etc and I'm a victim. On the other hand I also expect to speak to somebody straight away, not this afternoon, not tomorrow or next week.
Different if you're employed, 9 - 5 or whatever and you can forget about your work at 5.01PM.
Roger, don't blame you for getting angry. It is legalised theft. Of course if it was the other way around.............


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## RogerS (28 Sep 2006)

Noel":swlb2mgl said:


> On the other hand I also expect to speak to somebody straight away, not this afternoon, not tomorrow or next week.
> .



Well, let's hope you're not with Orange as typical wait times are 20 minutes plus at 10p a minute. :twisted: 

Unlocking phones - I understand that one can get SIM only deals but that the phone needs to be unlocked to allow it to use another mobile providers SIM. Has anyone done this? Is it easy?


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## Colin C (28 Sep 2006)

Hi Roger 
As for unlocking your phone   
It can be done very easly as long as it is not one of the new phones and if Orange will not do it ( they should and can), you can get it done from a local phone shop if you have one near you that does it.

What phone do you have as some can be unlocked by yourself  
I would say try Orange first but try to get them to do it for free, for all the trouble you have had :wink:


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## RogerS (28 Sep 2006)

Hi Colin....it's a SonyEriccson W800i IIRC.

I've just signed up for a VirginMobile SIM only for £15. That will give me a new number and I've got several old phones I can stick it in and, if they're not locked, then I can try out signal strength where I live. If it all looks good then next month when the contract ends with 'bitter orange' I'll get a PAC code for my and my wifes phones and migrate over.

Roger


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## Noel (28 Sep 2006)

Just out of interest Roger, which of the operators does Virgin buy their packages off? O2, Vodaphone, T Mobile, 3G or Oran............


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## Colin C (28 Sep 2006)

I think it is T-mobile


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## Colin C (28 Sep 2006)

Roger
Good news you can get it unlock if Orange will not do it but I would try them first :wink:


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## RogerS (28 Sep 2006)

Colin C":1t3uu1vi said:


> I think it is T-mobile



oh no...tell me it isn't true  I have never got a T-mobile signal at home.


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## ike (28 Sep 2006)

It is T-Mobile - sorry!


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## Colin C (28 Sep 2006)

Roger
I have some O2 sims if you want to try one.
PM me your address and I will get one in the post for you  
Ps I got them for free :wink:, also have vodafone ones too. Just let me know


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## Losos (28 Sep 2006)

It's a sad fact that the mobile phone has become part of our lives now. It can in some cases be a matter of living or dying. I refer to the lady doctor who bought a remote cottage in Wales. There was no landline but she could use her mobile if she walked about 300 Metres from the property.
One day she was on the roof (Doing some repairs) when she fell and seriously injured both legs, she couldn't walk but tried to crawl with her phone to call 999 - She didn't make it  
IIRC this was about ten years ago.


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## RogerS (4 Oct 2006)

Cor...just got a SIM only from Vodafone. Magic signal strength    

So all I need to do now is get out cleanly from the Orange contract. Decided to write to one of their directors at her home address. Go to the top, I always say.


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## Colin C (4 Oct 2006)

Hi Roger
I posted the O2 one yesterday, so you should get that to :wink: 
Do you look into what I pm'ed you about getting out of your contract as I know of a few people that have get out of mobile contract that way


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## RogerS (4 Oct 2006)

Hi Colin...look forward to trying the O2 SIM. Actually I've only got the one month left to go so reckon if I can avoid paying the service charge or a large part of it then I'm OK with that.


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## RogerS (10 Oct 2006)

Vodafone catch22!

The SIM came with 99p of credit. Great local signal strength. Made a few calls. Credit down to 50p. Went to their website to topup. Went all the way through..."sorry systems are down..can't do this. Try later or call 191."

Call 191. "This call will cost you 25p". Ring ring..ring ring.."Sorry we are unable to put you through. Goodbye"

Call credit now 25p.

Wait an hour. Went to their website to try again to topup. Went all the way through..."sorry systems are down..can't do this. Try later or call 191."

Call 191. "This call will cost you 25p". Ring ring..ring ring.."Sorry we are unable to put you through. Goodbye"

Call credit now zero. Unable to call 191 to TopUp and unable to TopUp via website. Phone now useless. 

Sorry..Vodafone, I am unable to remain sane using you. Goodbye.


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## ike (10 Oct 2006)

Can't you get a topup card nearby?


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## Noel (10 Oct 2006)

What's your address Roger? I'm about to head to the post office with a large cardboard box. There's a large ball of string, 2 recently cleaned bake bean cans and instructions.................


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## RogerS (10 Oct 2006)

ike":36kry6l2 said:


> Can't you get a topup card nearby?



That's another option, I guess, but I'm not really that au fait with all the varieties of TopUps. I guess if I had the time or energy I would get in the car, drive 20 minutes into Malvern, call in at each shop and ask them if they sell a TopUp card...whatever that is......then drive back.

We're supposed to be in an age of communication... :wink:


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## dedee (10 Oct 2006)

> We're supposed to be in an age of communication...



You could always write 'em a letter but it seems these have to be posted before 9.00am these days :lol: 

Andy


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## Noel (10 Oct 2006)

I managed to top up my son's mobile at a cash dispenser last week. Dead simple - press a few buttons, key in the number and that's it.

Noel
Roger, the can and string thing was a sign of sympathy for your comms problems, BTW.


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## RogerS (10 Oct 2006)

Noel":2n6ozsq8 said:


> Roger, the can and string thing was a sign of sympathy for your comms problems, BTW.



Aw..shucks. I was really looking forward to reading the manual, as well :lol:


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## Colin C (10 Oct 2006)

Hi Roger 

As that has not worked out I will try to get an outher O2 sim card out to you :roll: :wink:


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## Mike B (11 Oct 2006)

Roger 

I've used http://www.mobilefun.co.uk before to unlock my mobiles - simple and worked very well! 

Just a thought - as your phone is really important to you for business perhaps it may be worth considering a twin sim adapter (from mobilefun etc) so you may use your future network provider sim as normal but also keep a secondary pay as you go sim for any network failures/blackspots etc... 

Then again two numbers may cause more trouble than they are worth! 

Mike


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## RogerS (25 Oct 2006)

Result!!!    ccasion5: 

Having researched, using Companies House, the home addresses of the UK Orange directors I wrote to one of them politely pointing out my grievances.

Just got a reply....refund of two months service plan charges to both our phones, ongoing refund while the transmitter is out of action plus an ex-gratia payment of £15 to cover my landline costs to customer service. 

The added bonus is a named contact point in the Executive Office plus direct line!


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## Roger (25 Oct 2006)

I like that Roger - perseverance and get to the top! It works when you stick at it with a valid grievance .... good for you!


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## Losos (25 Oct 2006)

Roger,
Great result - Well done.

Just as a matter of interest, out of all the director titles which did you choose? 

I usually go for 'Technical Director' on the basis that people with any sort of engineering background are more 'honourable' than other types.  and are usually best able to get things fixed.

I dare say others may not agree but since the PC mad world has virtually banned opinions about people in every other respect at least they haven't yet invaded the 'job title' world :wink:


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## RogerS (25 Oct 2006)

The Company House details don't give job title other than Company Secretary. Having been taken over by France Telecomm meant that that route (ie corporate website) was also closed. So I used a pin


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## Losos (27 Oct 2006)

Well it worked anyway


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## RogerS (9 Nov 2006)

Just tried to log into my Orange account via their website. It won't let me go any further saying

You have an overdue balance of £25.56 (credit). Online access to this account has been suspended until the balance has been paid.

If you would like to make a payment online now, please click

So do I have to make a negative payment ? :? :?


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## dedee (9 Nov 2006)

Let's face it Roger, you were never meant to have a mobile 'phone.

Do you every begin to think, Why Me?

Andy


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## RogerS (9 Nov 2006)

Have to confess I miss the easy access of making a phone call whenever I want to rather than having to stop what I'm doing, go into the house, try and remember who it was I wanted to call  .........

Still I am now getting super service from Orange and regular updates. The phones have been unlocked. I've had very generous refunds (and continue to do so while the transmitter is still out of action). Three faults on the transmitter and they are waiting for new parts from Nokia to fix the third fault. 

Another problemette is they have to write to the farmer whose land it's on whenever they need access, giving 7 days notice and if he refuses due to farming reasons then they have to schedule another day.....and another day.....


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