# Which Fuse ?



## Gogsi (22 Oct 2021)

Hi there,
I'm using a Pegas 16" Scroll Saw:
Power input 320 W, power output 60 W, 230 V, 400-1550 

Had been using it for about an hour yesterday and stopped work until this morning.
I switched it on and....................nothing !

Oh my goodness ! How am I going to finish this project ??? 
Oh NO ! I'll have to ship it back to Switzerand where I purchased it !
What am I going to do ??

After I finshed my whining, I removed the 3 amp fuse and replaced it with another and.........................
Hallelujah ! It works ! What a relief.
Now, my question is, since this shipped with a European plug and I used a fused adapter with a 3 amp fuse, should I replace it with that, or do I need a larger amp one?
I apologise for my lack of electrical knowledge.
Thanks in advance for any replies.


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## flh801978 (22 Oct 2021)

3 amps should supply 750 watts easily (3 x 240)
But inrush current on your motor may be as much as treble the running current so i would increase the fuse to 5 amps .
And i would cut off the European plug and fit a good quality Uk 3 pin
Ian


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## Cabinetman (22 Oct 2021)

Yes as above is fine, I was always taught that the only reason the fuse is there is to stop the wire being overloaded. Ian


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## Gogsi (22 Oct 2021)

flh801978 said:


> 3 amps should supply 750 watts easily (3 x 240)
> But inrush current on your motor may be as much as treble the running current so i would increase the fuse to 5 amps .
> And i would cut off the European plug and fit a good quality Uk 3 pin
> Ian


Thanks very much. I'll get a 5amp today if I can and ditch Europe.......oops sorry, pull the plug : )


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## scrimper (22 Oct 2021)

Personally I would fit a 13amp fuse. Starting current can sometimes be five times actual running current. I spent most of my life in domestic appliance maintenance and we were always told by Hoover that we should use 13 amp fuses even on their machines rated at just 400watts.

In the case of a serious issue with a machine a 13amp fuse will blow just mill-seconds later than a lower rated one and in any case most house sockets are now protected by an RCD in the consumer unit.


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## Gogsi (22 Oct 2021)

Thanks so much for your expert opinion Scrimping. Fortunately, I already have a 13 amp, so will take your advice.


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## AES (22 Oct 2021)

@Gogsi: I agree with scrimper about fitting a UK plug, but NOT with fitting a 13 A fuse, sorry. The Manual for my EX 21 (which is the the same rating as your EX 16) states a 3A fuse should be used (see page 6 of the Manual).

FWIW, not all "euro plugs" are the same ("my" Swiss plugs - which I guess could be called "euro plugs", at least geographically speaking! - are not at all compatible with German "euro plugs" for example). So I do exactly the same thing, and cut off the supplied plug/adaptor thingies, whatever type they are, even if moulded on, and refit "correct" Swiss ones. But Swiss plugs are, unlike UK plugs, are NOT fused at all.

I have never had a fuse blow (which in my case would mean blowing the fuse in power distribution box supplying the cellar where my machine is plugged in), but just "to be sure" in your case, I'd fit a 3 A fuse as per the Manual if I were you.

Back yonks ago when I was a UK resident it was possible to get 3 A cartridge fuses to fit UK plugs (don't know if you still can) but IMO only, it would be worth a bit of effort (and the few pence involved) to replace that 13 A fuse with the "correct" (as per Manual) 3 A fuse if you can find one.

HTH

Edit for P.S: Also the Manual goes to some lengths to talk about always making sure the machine is properly earthed. That's the main reason why I always cut all "non Swiss" plugs/adaptors off all my machine leads. Having wired the plug myself I'm always sure that the machine IS properly earthed.


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## nickds1 (22 Oct 2021)

Personally I would never ever just replace a fuse with 13A. If that was an ok thing to do, why bother with having different fuses at all? No need to keep a range in stock (or even to make them) - Just fit a 13A one and be done with it! Or a nail? Nails are good.

No. Fit the right sized and type fuse for the plug/appliance/cable etc. You will fail PAT testing with a wrong fuse - good thing too!

Normal fuses are not "fast blow" - they allow over- rate surge current and are good for most motor start-ups.

I would never replace a fuse with anything other than the recommended value and type (fast-blow, normal, slow-blow) If the recommended fuse keeps blowing, you likely have a problem somewhere and should be focussing on that.


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## Duncan A (22 Oct 2021)

13A is too large. A standard domestic fuse is the wrong type.
The motor is a 320W universal brushed motor, not an induction motor, so the start-up current will probably not be 5/6/8 times continuous rating.
The Axminster AT406SS scroll saw is apparently made in the same Taiwanese factory as the Pegas and has what looks like the same motor: Axminster Trade AT406SS Scroll Saw
The downloadable Axi manual says that the correct fuse is a 5A glass fuse, 20mm x 5mm.
Glass fuses are usually either slow blow or fast blow. In this case, I suspect it is a slow-blow but don't really know so I would be inclined to contact the manufacturer: Scroll Saws
Duncan


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## AES (22 Oct 2021)

As above Duncan A, the Manual for my EX 21 (which clearly says it is also the Manual for Gogsi's EX 16) clearly states 3 A for this/these machine/s. So IF I'm correct about the Manual, no need to contact the manufacturer.

It is suspected among many here that although the "original" General International/Pegas Excalibur machines look identical to the Axi Trade AT4066, they are in fact NOT the same machine/have a "reduced" spec in at least some areas.

There have been a lot of "defects" and even warranty exchanges on the Axi machines here, whereas, AFAIK, there have been no adverse reports on the "original" GI/Pegas machines.

Edit for P.S: And when you state QUOTE: The motor is a 320W universal brushed motor UNQUOTE:, you are incorrect Duncan, IF you are talking about the "original" GI/Pegas machine. The motor on these machines is 60 Volt 50 DC brushed (not sure about the Axi versions).

Not trying to be a nit picker, nor a clever clogs mate, but since Axi have brought their own version of these machines onto the market, there has been a lot of discussion (and disappointment) because, as per my original post, outwardly the Axi and the "original" machines appear identical (apart from the colour and name of the side) but from the many reports of the poor performance of the Axi versions they clearly are not ("something" has "cheapened" them).

HTH


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## Gogsi (22 Oct 2021)

AES said:


> @Gogsi: I agree with scrimper about fitting a UK plug, but NOT with fitting a 13 A fuse, sorry. The Manual for my EX 21 (which is the the same rating as your EX 16) states a 3A fuse should be used (see page 6 of the Manual).
> 
> FWIW, not all "euro plugs" are the same ("my" Swiss plugs - which I guess could be called "euro plugs", at least geographically speaking! - are not at all compatible with German "euro plugs" for example). So I do exactly the same thing, and cut off the supplied plug/adaptor thingies, whatever type they are, even if moulded on, and refit "correct" Swiss ones. But Swiss plugs are, unlike UK plugs, are NOT fused at all.
> 
> ...


Thanks all for your invaluable thoughts on this, if not a wee bit con-fuse-ing, to say the least : )
I think I opened the proverbial can of worms but, it just shows what a diverse group of minds we have here on this forum. It's certainly great to be a part of this.
I'll play it safe and put in a new 3 A fuse.
Thanks much.


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## Sandyn (22 Oct 2021)

It is not a good idea to replace a 3A fuse with a 13A. Reason is that theoretically, (depending on the design) a fault could develop which draws a steady 12.5A. This will not blow the 13A fuse, but will overload the mains cable fitted to the unit. It may overheat causing a fire. That 12.5A will be causing something else to get very hot. Equipment is designed with fireproof enclosures, so there are multiple levels of safety.
Fortunately most equipment will have a non replaceable fuse inside which is rated lower than the rating of the mains cable, so it would still be safe. 

According to BS1362 and the IET Code of Practice, a 3A fuse where the appliance is rated at 700W or less, and a 13A fuse when the appliance is rated at more than 700W.


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## Ozi (22 Oct 2021)

My dad always used to rap the blown fuse in lots of tin foil. The smell of fag smoke and burning bakerlite brings back such happy memories.


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## Spectric (22 Oct 2021)

All you need to remember is that the cable from the machine will determine the required fuse, if it is a small wattage motor then the OEM will have fitted a suitable csa cable that requires the mentioned 5 amp fuse. Just fitting a 13 amp fuse could mean the cable is not of sufficient csa to carry the fault current. This is a common problem because people just refer to these plugs as 13 amp plugs and assume a 13 amp fuse, not good when a cable is 0.75 or 0.5 mm Csa.


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## Fergie 307 (23 Oct 2021)

And they always come fitted with a 13A fuse. Might be better if they came without a fuse fitted atall, then at least you would have to think about what you were putting in it.


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## Duncan A (23 Oct 2021)

I would still recommend checking with the manufacturer. Regardless of fuse size, if they have fitted a glass fuse at the factory, there will be a reason for it. A two line email is all it takes.
Duncan


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## JefL (23 Oct 2021)

They won’t have fitted a glass fuse to the plug in the factory. Glass fuses do not have a high enough fault current rating to meet the BS specification, it requires a ceramic bodied fuse.


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## PeteHB (23 Oct 2021)

A suitable sized nail should do the trick.


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## Dee J (23 Oct 2021)

Whilst, as an ex-electrician, I generally try to match the fuse vaguely to the likely load (and get L/N polarity correct), I'm also well aware that anything supplied with the typical euro plug is designed to be plugged into an un polarised socket protected by a 16A mcb. So relatively comfortable about a 13A fuse on most modern stuff.


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## scrimper (23 Oct 2021)

Well I have opened up a 'Hornets nest' here. I do speak with some experience here having spent all my working life in the Radio/TV/electrical repair business and running my own Electrical company for the last 30 odd years of my working life.

In actual fact the standard UK plug fuse is available in the following ratings 1A, 2A, 3A 5A, 7A, 10A and 13a and I do actually have all of these sizes in my stock. however the only official and commonly used ones are 3A and 13A. 

Now as mentioned devices with motors do have a momentary starting current that is sometimes up to 5 times that of running current and in this sort of equipment you may find that a lower rated fuse may run fine but on the other hand may eventually blow. 

There is talk in this thread of using 6" nails and silver paper being used rather than fuses which although over the years I have seen many of these dangerous practices in use my suggestion of using a 13A fuse has nothing to do with them obviously. 

When I fit plugs and fuses I would always advocate using either a 3A or a 13A fuse as these are the only ones most people have access too and for low wattage items like for example a table lamp obviously one should fit a 3A fuse however with a motorised item generally I would advise a 13A fuse is fiited. As I mentioned in any safety issue a 13A fuse would blow almost as quickly as a smaller rated one.

In any dangerous short to earth in a machine that could result in electric shock it would be the RCD, or residual current device that would save your life not the use of a 3A fuse.

As regards to manufacturers stating the correct fuse to use, in fairness many of today's manufacturers do not actually make anything they simply buy Chinese made products and stick their logo on them, often run by venture capitalists they often know little about the products they sell and even less about proper electrical practices. You only have to look at the poor quality of some of the stuff they sell to understand this. 

This post may be out of kilter with everyone else here and make me unpopular but I have to state my honest opinion.


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## Fergie 307 (23 Oct 2021)

A good point well made. Back in the day when the fuse in the device was your first line of defence, making sure it was the correct size was undoubtedly important. Anyone nowadays running tools, or indeed anything else, without a RCD is a fool.


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## nickds1 (23 Oct 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> A good point well made. Back in the day when the fuse in the device was your first line of defence, making sure it was the correct size was undoubtedly important. Anyone nowadays running tools, or indeed anything else, without a RCD is a fool.


Worth remembering that an RCD is a leakage/fault detector, not overcurrent. You still need fuses/MCBs etc.


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## Bungalowbill63 (24 Oct 2021)

I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.
This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.
I would suggest that if fitting the correct fuse and there is still a fault seek qualified advice from Pegas, Axminster or Seyco.


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## scrimper (26 Oct 2021)

Bungalowbill63 said:


> I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.
> This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.



I shall only say that as a fully qualified electrical engineer I disagree with this comment, However as I don't wish to enter into another argumentative discussion with you I shall not respond further.


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## Spectric (27 Oct 2021)

Bungalowbill63 said:


> I hope nobody takes notice of the idea that replacing a 3amp fuse with a 13 amp is good practice.


Changing the rating or type of protective device is a change of the design and therefore should only be done following investigation and testing to ensure that the circuit can withstand the higher fault current and energy let through, ie no permeant damage due to the fault current. So in this context the above statement is correct but


Bungalowbill63 said:


> This machine has a pcb which probably would be destroyed as a result of the higher rated fuse,not to mention the fire risk from an overloaded cable.



This cannot be assumed because often the OEM will use a protective device on the PCB, this then leaves the fuse in the plug to protect the cable from short circuit conditions. Fuses do not protect against overload fault conditions, that is why motors use overload devices to protect the system, just look at a DOL starter and again this protection is often part of the PCB or starter circuit.


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## cjdinc (24 Jan 2022)

Gogsi said:


> Hi there,
> I'm using a Pegas 16" Scroll Saw:
> Power input 320 W, power output 60 W, 230 V, 400-1550
> 
> ...


Hi Gogsi,
I'm interested in buying a Pegas scroll saw from Dictum and would be interested in your experience of dealing direct with them? Was it straight forward or did you get involved with customs and excise?


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## AES (24 Jan 2022)

I dealt with Dictum, though it's nigh on 6 years ago now, and I visited them in München (I'm somewhat nearer to them than you are cjdinc)!

I did have to deal with Customs and Import Duties, because even though it's a while back, I live in Switzerland, and Switzerland was never in the EU, just like UK isn't now. About the only difference is that I picked up my machine in München and brought it home by car.

So my experience is most probably the same as/similar to Gogsi's. I did write the whole experience up on here, so after looking that post up I'll come back here and attach the relevant link.

Edit for added link:








Biting the bullet - Ex 21


Well Ladies & Gents, AES finally “bit the bullet”! It was my birthday a few weeks back (the big seven oh! - but apart from my back problems I can hardly believe it). My lovely Lady agreed with my request that as part of the celebrations we visit Munich which is less than 4 hours drive for us...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk





There's a fair bit on UKW about that time on this general subject both from me and others, so it may be worth your while having a "paddle about" in UKW at about that time - I see it was 2015 - to find other relevant stuff. BTW, I still deal with Dictum on a fairly regular basis for stuff like Pegas scroll saw blades (would you believe that Dictum are cheaper than my local Swiss Pegas dealer - and Pegas blades are made here in Switzerland)!

As you'll read in the above link, I have no hesitation in recommending Dictum as one of the best tool shops I've ever dealt with.

HTH


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## cjdinc (24 Jan 2022)

AES said:


> I dealt with Dictum, though it's nigh on 6 years ago now, and I visited them in München (I'm somewhat nearer to them than you are cjdinc)!
> 
> I did have to deal with Customs and Import Duties, because even though it's a while back, I live in Switzerland, and Switzerland was never in the EU, just like UK isn't now. About the only difference is that I picked up my machine in München and brought it home by car.
> 
> ...


Thanks AES,
I did find your thread and read it a while ago. I was really looking for Gogsi's input of how he went about getting Dictum to send him a Pegas machine here in the UK last year.
Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
Cjdinc


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## Gogsi (24 Jan 2022)

Hi Cjdinc
Actually, I didn't buy mine from Dictum, I bought it from Scies Miniatures Sarl in Switzerland and, to be honest, they were terrible. I think I was maybe the first private individual they had dealt with and it was a very painful 2 months.
I think I'd likely have been better to go with Dictum.
They shipped it from France and only when it arrived at the port did they realise they had incorrect papers and had to send it back to the point of departure. Communication was very slow and not very informative........definitely one of my worst buying experiences.


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## AES (24 Jan 2022)

cjdinc said:


> Thanks AES,
> I did find your thread and read it a while ago. I was really looking for Gogsi's input of how he went about getting Dictum to send him a Pegas machine here in the UK last year.
> Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.
> Cjdinc




OK mate, no problem. Best of luck anyway - one thing's for sure, arranging transport isn't going to be cheap I think, but based on my own experiences with them, Dictum will help you as much as they possibly can


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## AES (24 Jan 2022)

@cjdinc: I'll jump back in again quickly then.

1. I'm surprised Scies (the makers of Pegas blades) dealt with Gogsi at all. I've tried several times and they've always refused retail customers apparently. And perhaps I shouldn't say this, but coming from the French part of Switzerland, I'm not surprised they weren't very good (the Frogs generally aren't as efficient as the Krauts - he says, ducking like mad)!

2. If you want to contact Dictum direct and haven't got all the details, here they are:

Tel: (orders) +49 9931 4058 901

Tel: (tech help/info) + 49 9931 4058 911

(above lines open from 08.00 to 20.00 - note, they're +1 hour on UK time)

Post: Dictum GmbH, Gottlieb-Daimler Strasse 3, D-94447 Plattling, Deutschland

Fax (order) +49 9931 4058 800

E-mail: [email protected]

Website: www.dictum.com

And their English is pretty good BTW.

All the best - In their 2018 catalogue (the latest I have) the 16 inch Pegas/Excalibur is priced at 609 Euros, no taxes; the 21 inch at 722 Euros, no taxes; The Hegner Mutispeed Multicut 1 is 685 Euros, no taxes, and the Multicut SE is 894 Euros, no taxes..

I'm not sure what the post Brexit rules are in UK now, but should (???) be the same as here (also not in the EU). That means that Dictum should charge prices ex VAT, as above. You pay UK VAT when the saw arrives in UK. But you also have to pay the shipping, plus UK Import Duty, and VAT is, of course, added on to the total of all these. That's how it works here anyway.

H all TH


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## pgrbff (25 Jan 2022)

AES said:


> @Gogsi: I agree with scrimper about fitting a UK plug, but NOT with fitting a 13 A fuse, sorry. The Manual for my EX 21 (which is the the same rating as your EX 16) states a 3A fuse should be used (see page 6 of the Manual).
> 
> FWIW, not all "euro plugs" are the same ("my" Swiss plugs - which I guess could be called "euro plugs", at least geographically speaking! - are not at all compatible with German "euro plugs" for example). So I do exactly the same thing, and cut off the supplied plug/adaptor thingies, whatever type they are, even if moulded on, and refit "correct" Swiss ones. But Swiss plugs are, unlike UK plugs, are NOT fused at all.
> 
> ...


Is there not a danger that changing the plug will affect the warranty?
I'm in Italy and I am so fed up with the number of adapters you need. 10A flat, 16A flat, shuko (German), Although you can buy plugs here even the better quality like Vimar, Gewiss and BTicino fall apart in no time. Sometimes you need 3 different screwdrivers to change a plug.


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## pgrbff (25 Jan 2022)

AES said:


> @cjdinc: I'll jump back in again quickly then.
> 
> 1. I'm surprised Scies (the makers of Pegas blades) dealt with Gogsi at all. I've tried several times and they've always refused retail customers apparently. And perhaps I shouldn't say this, but coming from the French part of Switzerland, I'm not surprised they weren't very good (the Frogs generally aren't as efficient as the Krauts - he says, ducking like mad)!
> 
> ...


I too buy regularly from Dictum and have never had any issues.


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## cjdinc (25 Jan 2022)

Thanks to everyone for replying. My only contact so far with Dictum has been pretty negative. I asked if they could quote me a delivered price and they replied saying they could not supply private customers in the UK only companies who can provide an EORI number? This is at odds with HM Gov website which says private customers do not require an EORI number. I haven't been back to Dictum yet.
Thanks once again.


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## pgrbff (25 Jan 2022)

cjdinc said:


> Thanks to everyone for replying. My only contact so far with Dictum has been pretty negative. I asked if they could quote me a delivered price and they replied saying they could not supply private customers in the UK only companies who can provide an EORI number? This is at odds with HM Gov website which says private customers do not require an EORI number. I haven't been back to Dictum yet.
> Thanks once again.


It may depend on the value of the goods? I don't think getting an EORI should be a big deal, although I don't know how you would go about it in the UK. It is relatively simple here, you just stick IT in front of your personal tax code which can be calculated online in 20 seconds.
There is still a huge amount of confusion on shipping to and from the UK from the EU. I send myself parcels, from the UK to Italy, with few problems if I choose the right courier. Parcelforce on the other hand still have a parcel sent for Christmas on the 25th of November.


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## Henniep (25 Jan 2022)

scrimper said:


> Well I have opened up a 'Hornets nest' here. I do speak with some experience here having spent all my working life in the Radio/TV/electrical repair business and running my own Electrical company for the last 30 odd years of my working life.
> 
> In actual fact the standard UK plug fuse is available in the following ratings 1A, 2A, 3A 5A, 7A, 10A and 13a and I do actually have all of these sizes in my stock. however the only official and commonly used ones are 3A and 13A.
> 
> ...


Tell em Scrimper, tell em!


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2022)

Can you not buy a scroll saw here in the UK, saves so many problems and you have the opportunity of actually seeing it or is this Peegas one special in some way?


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

pgrbff said:


> Is there not a danger that changing the plug will affect the warranty?
> I'm in Italy and I am so fed up with the number of adapters you need. 10A flat, 16A flat, shuko (German), Although you can buy plugs here even the better quality like Vimar, Gewiss and BTicino fall apart in no time. Sometimes you need 3 different screwdrivers to change a plug.



I can't see why changing a plug (on the mains cable) will void any Warranty. I suppose IF you had a problem and the dealer could show you'd wired up your own plug incorrectly they would have a valid case for refusing a warranty claim, but if you can wire your own country's plugs correctly, and can use a pair of side cutters (see below), I really don't see a problem.

And frankly I just don't understand the need for all these adaptors either (unless you regularly use the same machine in 2 or more different countries with different mains sockets). All I do is just cut off the mains plug up as near along the cable to the plug as possible (even moulded on plugs) then chuck that in the bin and fit a "proper" plug for my own country. I do have a couple of machines that I sometimes take to use at a friend's house in Germany (different plugs to Swiss) so I own just one German/Swiss adaptor. That's it.


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

Spectric said:


> Can you not buy a scroll saw here in the UK, saves so many problems and you have the opportunity of actually seeing it or is this Peegas one special in some way?



Spectric, IMO (and that of several other members here), YES, the Pegas/Excalibur saws are indeed pretty special - in several important ways.

Until about a couple of years back, you could buy those exact machines from Axmister Tools (they were/are the UK dealers for Pegas/Excalibur/General International). But as said, about 2 years ago, maybe more now, I forget, Axi brought out their own version of the Excaliburs, which apart from the colour and the name, appeared to be identical with the "originals". 

But based on the number of complaints, breakage, and outright warranty replacements which have been reported here on UKW, those Axi clones are NOT the same internally. So it appears that if you live in UK (I don't) and want to buy the Pegas/Excalibur originals then you have to import from a different country. 

The only real alternative (new machines) of the same quality is the Hegner range of scroll saws which are sold in UK (Hegner themselves have their own "office" in UK). But machine for machine, the Hegners are more expensive than the equivalent Pegas/Excaliburs, and some would argue (me included) that you get more bang for your buck when buying Pegas/Excalibur.


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## Spectric (25 Jan 2022)

Thanks for that info @AES and I can understand the quality issues if Axminster are having cost reduced clones made in Asia. It is good to know that if I need a scroll saw then look at Pegas or Hegner. 



AES said:


> I can't see why changing a plug (on the mains cable) will void any Warranty.


It is more of a get out clause, if the plug is moulded on the cable and you cut it off to change then they say you have tampered or interferred with the item. It can be a problem when doing a kitchen because the plug does not fit through a small hole, you cannot cut it off and wire to a FCU but end up fitting a socket beneath the worktop with a switch above.


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

@Spectric: You wrote, QUOTE: It is more of a get out clause, if the plug is moulded on the cable and you cut it off to change then they say you have tampered or interferred with the item. UNQUOTE:

Yeah, understood, but IMO, a pretty pathetic get out clause. We had precisely that problem when having a new kitchen fitted here, and one of the ovens supplied as part of the deal failed very early on. When they saw that the supplier (of the kitchen) had done exactly as I said and had cut off the moulded-on (German) plug and replaced with a Swiss, they tried exactly that. When the kitchen supplier told me, I took a photo of the (correctly fitted) Swiss plug and told them the failure was NOT due to the plug but was in their oven itself, and that if they didn't honour the warranty I'd take them to court. They soon shut up and supplied a new oven - with the correct Swiss plug straight away.

As you say, just a try on. And personally I think not worth bothering about.

Cheers


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

cjdinc said:


> Thanks to everyone for replying. My only contact so far with Dictum has been pretty negative. I asked if they could quote me a delivered price and they replied saying they could not supply private customers in the UK only companies who can provide an EORI number? This is at odds with HM Gov website which says private customers do not require an EORI number. I haven't been back to Dictum yet.
> Thanks once again.




Sorry to hear that. The only thing I can suggest is that the UK Brexit rules have made it difficult for them to supply retail customers in UK. Dunno, just guessing.

I'd suggest you try calling them in person. Not that expensive, especially if you get Skype (PC, no charge) or WhatsApp (no charge on your mobile).


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## pgrbff (25 Jan 2022)

AES said:


> I can't see why changing a plug (on the mains cable) will void any Warranty. I suppose IF you had a problem and the dealer could show you'd wired up your own plug incorrectly they would have a valid case for refusing a warranty claim, but if you can wire your own country's plugs correctly, and can use a pair of side cutters (see below), I really don't see a problem.
> 
> And frankly I just don't understand the need for all these adaptors either (unless you regularly use the same machine in 2 or more different countries with different mains sockets). All I do is just cut off the mains plug up as near along the cable to the plug as possible (even moulded on plugs) then chuck that in the bin and fit a "proper" plug for my own country. I do have a couple of machines that I sometimes take to use at a friend's house in Germany (different plugs to Swiss) so I own just one German/Swiss adaptor. That's it.


There are 3 current types of sockets in Italy, see images, if you count houses that still haven't got an earth there are 2 more without centre pins. If you have an Oral B electric toothbrush the plug on that won't fit any of them, the pins are wider. There is probably a 16A flat as well but Gewiss don't seem to do one. Some of the flat plugs simply won't fit the shuko because it is too deep and the plug is wider than the hole. 
On the warranty side, when my Hilti drill failed, I had brought it over from Ireland/UK and changed the plug myself, Hilti in Italy would not work on the drill unless I paid 35 euro to have a new lead and plug, a shuko.
I am pretty sure there is some rule/law in Italy regarding putting on your own plug but then Italy is famous for having more laws than anyone else.


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

QUOTE: I am pretty sure there is some rule/law in Italy regarding putting on your own plug but then Italy is famous for having more laws than anyone else. UNQUOTE:

I must be careful here (he says) once again ducking for the nearest slit trench  , like in an earlier post in this thread. But I always thought the laws in Italy were just like the speed limits on the Autostrada - purely optional!!!! (Sorry, I'm sure your experience tells you what to expect there).


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## pgrbff (25 Jan 2022)

They're not so much optional as, and it is a bit difficult to translate, for every law there is always a way of not having to follow the law.
I did have a quick look, changing the plug in Italy definitely invalidates the guarantee, which by law I believe is 2 years.
When the hinge broke on my 650 euro pair of specs, within the guarantee period, I was simply told that I had mistreated them.
Although I was born Italian, in St Marys Paddington, I spent 50 plus years of my life in the UK and Ireland.


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## AES (25 Jan 2022)

Yeah, I believe you pgrbff. As I'm sure you realised, my tongue was firmly in my cheek when I made the previous comment.

"Enjoy" your adaptor collection


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