# Which Digital SLR....



## woody67 (27 Dec 2008)

........would any of you good folks please recommend in the £250 - £350 bracket.
 
Thanks

Mark


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## Rich (27 Dec 2008)

Hi Woody, google shows a CANON for £284..... by KIKATEC, Canon are a well respected manufacturer, I take it you were'nt after a mercedes benz, they are a LITTLE bit more costly. :lol: :lol: :lol: 

Rich.


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## MikeG. (27 Dec 2008)

Mark,

a bit depends on whether you have a film SLR. If you have, most of the lenses for film SLR's are compatible with the digital SLR's from the same maker, and you would therefore be more likely to stick with the same manufacturer. I used to have a Canon EOS 500, and when that died recently, I had no hesitation (after a lot of research, mind you), in opting for a Canon EOS 400D.

Depending on the available deals and the lens options you are after, this could well fall within your price range........and I would heartily recommend it. I think it is a wonderful piece of kit, and the controls are quite readily picked up (I think instinctive sums it up quite well).

If you are retaining old lenses to use with a new body, then remember that the focal length will not be the same as it was when used with the film camera. With the Canon the ratio is about 1.6............ie, a 50mm lens on the old film camera will actually be around an 80mm focal length on the digital version. This can be really handy with long range stuff (a 200mm lens becomes 320, which gets you quite close in to that lion 100 yards away!), but does mean that group photos of your family at Christmas might mean you standing 5 or 10 yards further away than you did with the old film camera.

There is a strong Nikon competitor for the Canon EOS400D, but I am not sure of its name. They came joint top of a "What Digital Camera" magazine poll of digital SLR's last year.......and that would also be one of my best tips........go and get a few magazines, google around a bit, and ask as many people as you can.

Good luck.........and I'm sure you will get lots of varied opinions on here......

Cheers

Mike


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## Paul Chapman (27 Dec 2008)

Nikon D60 - lots of info on it here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond60/

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Steve Jones (27 Dec 2008)

Hi Mark,

I think Mike has already said most of what I was going to ( thanks Mike ). When I changed to digital a couple of years ago I went down the Nikon route and bought a second hand D70 from Mifsuds in Brixham, I bought this camera purely and simply because I already had Nikon lenses in my kit which I had used with the F50 film camera. Since buying the D70 I haven't looked back having taken 1000's of photo's and only had to have the sensor cleaned once.

I think if I were looking now I would have 2 choices either Canon or Nikon, for me Nikon works and I'm quite happy with it, but at the end of the day it's your choice.

If you do go down the Nikon route be wary of the D60, I know there are limitations with this camera in some way, but at time of typing I can't remember in what way, so it might be best to read some online reviews.

Hope this helps and hasn't thrown a spanner in the works.

Regards

Steve  

I think Ed Sutton on this forum uses a D80 take a look at he's pics might give you an idea of quality.


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## wizer (27 Dec 2008)

Before I got fully addicted to woodworking, I went down the route of photography. I love to look at photographic images, my other half and i share the same tastes in this area. For some reason I could never get the technical side of photography. I can compose a shot very well. But I've never broken out of auto settings.

My camera is a Nikon D50 and I really like Nikon camera's as a whole. There is a brilliant website that you can spend hours on written by a guy called Ken Rockwell. Go have a look he's a realy nice guy.


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## RobertMP (27 Dec 2008)

I moderate here -

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/

You will find so much info on camera choices it may get even more baffling than it is already.

Simple answer is that there is no 'bad' DSLR that you should avoid. You could compare lots of different features but it really comes down to what feels right for you - so go hold some cameras first if you can.

With help from others on the forum I wrote up this choosing guidewhich may be of some help


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## woody67 (27 Dec 2008)

Thanks for your suggestions fellas.....but I'm a bit of er....an SLR virgin..  I've had several compacts and generally enjoy photography and now feel it's time to upscale.  

Do any of the DSRL s have built in flash, or will I have to budget for an add-on? 

Sorry for being a numpty.And thanks again.

Mark


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## MikeG. (27 Dec 2008)

Mark,

I can't think of one that doesn't have a built in flash.........but I don't claim to be an expert.

Mike


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## Smudger (27 Dec 2008)

I think Robert is right - go and hold some, and get one that seems comfortable in the hand. I have a Nikon D70, which falls to my hand very naturally and I'm prepared to put up with a couple of idiosyncrasies. Pentax used to advertise with the slogan 'Just hold a Pentax'.

All DSLRs have built-in flash, I believe. I can't remember ever seeing one without, but you may wish to upgrade it.


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## RobertMP (27 Dec 2008)

Higher end models don't have built in flash but all the mainstream ones do.

Go read the article I linked to - it was written with you in mind


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## MikeG. (27 Dec 2008)

RobertMP":2dqxe7wi said:


> Go read the article I linked to - it was written with you in mind



Unfortunately, the forum doesn't seem to allow me to view that article as I am not a signed up member.......


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## RobertMP (27 Dec 2008)

really? I didn't realise that  

I'll check with admin to see if it was intentional. Guess you could just join to see it. I can guarantee you will not get any junk mail etc by joining.

edit - The tutorials section is something you can only see after you have joined so my apologies. Joining is free if you wanted to view it.


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## frugal (28 Dec 2008)

We have a 3 year old Canon EOS 350D that is great. I can use it in Point-and-Shoot mode and SWMBO can play with all of the advanced settings.

My advise would be to go into somewhere like Jessops and talk to them. When we did it, they were quite willing to let us try the cameras to see which we liked the best.


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## cutting42 (28 Dec 2008)

Hiya

Some great advice here so far, I will add a couple of comments of my own if I might.

Forget quality as such as all the DSLR brands are excellent and will provide more capability than you will be able to handle right now. When you buy a DSLR you are buying into a "system" of lenses, flash units and handling characteristics. The last is the most important and how your hands fit a camera has the most impact on usability and flexibility. The three major brands right now are Nikon, Canon and Sony (took over the Minolta brand as well as its own stuff). Nikon is the traditional Pro brand but since the consumer DSLR took of have battled with Canon for the starter DSLR market as well as the high end. Both brands have ardent fans who will declare until the end of the earth that their favourite brand is the best. Sony is the new boy with very exciting high and low end DSLR and all three have large lens ranges (huge in the case of Canon and Nikon).

Beg or borrow a Nikon, Canon and Sony from a friend or dealer and choose the body and handling you like, also factor in lenses as good lenses can bump up the budget but can be purchased at a later date. Also factor in a tripod if you are going to be taking pictures of your projects inside and/or landscape pictures, but again can be a later purchase.



HTH


Oh me? I thought you would never ask ..... I am a Nikon fan with a very old pro spec D1h camera, cost new about £5000 6 years ago and can be bought second hand for £200 now. Not many megapixels (2.77) but really great pixels. Still used by pros and probably took more pro sports images than any other camera for 4 years. Posted this once before here I think.







If you like really nice engineering and toys, take a look at 2-3 year old pro cameras, they can be got for a song.


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## Lord Nibbo (28 Dec 2008)

Well my recommendation will be going against the flow here.

I've got a Canon 40D and a Fuji finepix 4800Z but the DSLR it not in your price bracket as will be the case in most DSLR's so why everyone are recommending what they have I do not know. Even the cheapest on the market is only the starting point with a basic lens. and you could afford a 400D but.....

So I'm recommending not a DSLR but Canon Digital IXUS 960 IS Silver priced anywhere between £130-£200 depending from where you buy. It's head and shoulders above a basic DSLR


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## woody67 (28 Dec 2008)

Thanks ever so much again fellas. I'm edging towards the Nikon D60....... :-k unless someone else wants to scream NOOOOOOOOOO :wink: I've read good reviews so far.

Off to Jessops the morrow methinks, and I appreciate the advice of getting my hands on one to test the "feel". It is so true; even the look of the bloomin' things can influence you. We've got several compacts and I still like aluminium bodied, crisply designed ones (my Fuji Finepix J10 is a little peach)

Thanks

Mark


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## wizer (28 Dec 2008)

As said above your can't really go wrong with ANY DSLR. Nikon are arguably the leaders and I wouldn't ever buy any other brand. My missus and her family have al ended up with nikon point and shoots because of my recommendations and they love them. Nikon know how to make a cameras for the photographer. I certainly wouldn't buy a Sony _anything_


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## LyNx (29 Dec 2008)

Mark

I'm in the same boat as you. I've narrowed it down to the Nikon D60, Sony A200 and the Canon EOS 1000D. A visit to Jessops in the afternoon to have a chat but at the moment it's all even. 

I've been looking over the http://www.cameralabs.com website which has alot of reviews and videos to offer, maybe worth a look before going to purchase.


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## duncanh (29 Dec 2008)

I'd recommend listing the features that you want (eg. anti-shake, anti-dust technologies) and then look at http://www.dpreview.com/
The buying guide on that site lets you search for cameras with different features.

Not all have anti-shake built into the bodies and these need more expensive anti-shake lenses if you want that feature. Some have it built into the body so it's applied to any lens (even 20+year old lenses in the case of my Minolta).
Some of the older models will not have anti-dust technology to help combat dust on the sensor - mine doesn't and I have the occasional problem that I have to use a blower to fix.

On the lens front - depending on the range you want to work at there several options - buy the camera with the kit lens, buy the camera with kit lens and one other lens, buy the camera body with a third party lens with a wide zoom range. One advantage of my Minolta (and all current Sonys) is that old Minolta auto-focus lenses are compatible and there's a lively market for them on Ebay.

The way I bought mine was to decide on a maximum price, go to Jessops and hold all the cameras up to the max. price. I chose the one that fitted into my hand the best and felt the most comfortable.

Before xmas there was a Which guide on sale that had a short review of all available DSLRs

Duncan


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## woodbloke (29 Dec 2008)

Paul Chapman":gnrgqj9q said:


> Nikon D60 - lots of info on it here http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond60/
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Another vote for the D60. Very, very nice bit of kit - Rob


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## woody67 (29 Dec 2008)

Brilliant help fellas - Thanks. We're off to Jessops at Carlisle now, so wish me luck :wink: 
I'll report back before teatime!  

Mark


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## MikeG. (29 Dec 2008)

So, we now expect photos of your new camera......

Obviously you will want to use your new camera to take those photos........so I'm betting we get to see you in the mirror!!

Mike


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## CHJ (29 Dec 2008)

Mike Garnham":3fk33fxy said:


> ..so I'm betting we get to see you in the mirror!!
> 
> Mike



Why wait :lol: 






Woody67


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## MikeG. (29 Dec 2008)

That looks like a "who stole my sheep?" pose........


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## DaveL (29 Dec 2008)

Mike Garnham":1ibwjhxp said:


> That looks like a "who stole my sheep?" pose........


Or "where did that dog go?"


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## big soft moose (29 Dec 2008)

get orf moi land


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## wizer (29 Dec 2008)

or "how did my right leg get stuck in this drystone wall"


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## woody67 (29 Dec 2008)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice one Chas - It _*wasn't*_ posed you know :wink: 

Right then -apologies to all Nikonites in advance...................we've bought a Canon EOS 1000D :shock:. Got a good deal in Jessops with a bag and SD card thrown in. Battery just gone on charge, so won't be long now!

Mark (aka Grizzly Bear Adams)


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## MikeG. (29 Dec 2008)

You won't regret that!!

What lens/es did you get with it?

Mike


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## woody67 (29 Dec 2008)

Mike - Errrrrrrrr EFS 18-55mm ?? :shock: if that helps! 

Mark


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## cutting42 (29 Dec 2008)

woody67":37c30yeu said:


> Right then -apologies to all Nikonites in advance...................we've bought a Canon EOS 1000D :shock:. Got a good deal in Jessops with a bag and SD card thrown in. Battery just gone on charge, so won't be long now!
> 
> Mark (aka Grizzly Bear Adams)



You can't go too far wrong with Canon, Sony or Nikon so I forgive you for turning to the dark side :wink: Oh the collective noun for Nikon Fans is Nikonians FYI :wink: :wink: :wink: 

As long as it feels right in the hand and the controls are easy to use that is the main thing.


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## LyNx (1 Jan 2009)

Woody, how you getting on with the Canon?

I picked up the Sony A300 a few days back and can't put it down, lovely bit of kit (just got to learn how to use it)


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## wizer (1 Jan 2009)

Funny that brand loyalty thing innit. Sony is a massive company and has been instrumental in some awesome developments in all the areas they produce in. But I wouldn't touch them. Sony = Pony in my mind. Just like I wouldn't have Record in my workshop ('cept for my RSDE2).


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## LyNx (1 Jan 2009)

Nothing to do with brand loyalty, it's simply the better camera for what I needed.


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## wizer (1 Jan 2009)

Sorry, I should have said My Funny Brand Loyalty.


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## woody67 (1 Jan 2009)

I'm in the same boat as you Andy my friend - I've lost count of how many pics I've took and to make matters worse, I also got Corel Photo Shop Pro Ultimate for £48 instead of £80 from PC World! :shock: 

Hope you like the pic and all criticism will be gratefully received. :wink: 






Mark


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## Gower (1 Jan 2009)

Having been the digital SLR route (Canon 350) with lots of lenses, I have just bought the answer to 95% of my photography, a Panasonic Lumix TZ5 with Leica 10x optical zoom lens & 9 mega pixels. What a fantastic bit of kit. £172 @ Jessops. Love it!

Jim


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## LyNx (1 Jan 2009)

most of mine is been trying to get use to the buttons and not use the AUTO setting. With the help of my eldest (who is 4 with a DSLR!!!) it's all lego pictures at the moment. Did miss the frosty morning yesterday for some nice landscape pics. If Corel allows for RAW import then set the camera to RAW or RAW + JPEG (takes a second jpeg of the RAW file). This allows you to change some of the parameters that normal JPEGS don't allow, like the white balance for starters.


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## lurker (6 Jan 2009)

I'm still uming & arhing.

I have a film Olympus OM2n with some really nice lens so I'd like to put them back into use if I can.

I went to Jessops & asked the spotty erk if my OM lenses were compatable with Olympus digital offering and he went "dur" or similar. Would I need an adapter ? I asked, Dunno he replied. With that I chucked the camera at him & walked out. No wonder they are about to go bust!

Jessops HQ is not far away & I might try again via there.

My mate who is into Photography says buy a Canon

I continue to dither

Any Olympus DSLR users here???


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## Racers (6 Jan 2009)

Hi, Lurker

I choped my OM2 and lenses in for a Nikon D80. It looks like you can use certain old olympus lenses on a olympus DSLR with one of these http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/4 ... apter.html

The size of the lense will change due to having a smaller sensor.


Pete


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## woody67 (6 Jan 2009)

Numpty question here we come folks!............I've got a heap of my dads Minolta lenses, obviously bayonet....so....can I adapt them to fit my new Canon 1000D? It just seems such a waste that there's zoom and macro lenses etc, currently going to waste.   

Don't worry, I've already gone to get my coat.........   

Thanks

Mark


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## Digit (6 Jan 2009)

In theory yes! Theory says it all though doesn't it?
The area of the sensor on a digital is vary much less than the area of a 35mm neg, therefore, if the lens would fit straight on it would seem to you to have a much longer focal length.
In other words it has to be mounted further forward to achieve the same result as on your 35mm camera.
Adapters will do this but you may well lose the auto diaphragm operation in the process.

Roy.


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## woody67 (6 Jan 2009)

I get your drift Roy, BUT, I've tried the Minolta lense and it's too small......hence my query about an adaptor. Sorry I didn't mention it earlier.  

Thanks

Mark


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## Digit (6 Jan 2009)

Having repaired a lot of cameras in my time, I once had a collection of nearly 100 of 'em, try a camera forum for info and supplies.

Roy.


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## big soft moose (6 Jan 2009)

woody67":jeh10q6c said:


> Numpty question here we come folks!............I've got a heap of my dads Minolta lenses, obviously bayonet....so....can I adapt them to fit my new Canon 1000D? It just seems such a waste that there's zoom and macro lenses etc, currently going to waste.
> 
> Don't worry, I've already gone to get my coat.........
> 
> ...



in a word no - minolta lenses will fit on the sony alpha (or some will anyway) canon eos system lenses and third party lenses in EF or EFS fit will fit your canon

you can get an adaptor to take canon fd lenses and old screw fit M42 lenses but in truth its not worth it as you will lose both the AF and TTL metering.

i'd tend to ebay the minolta lenses and look out for some canon ef lenses second hand.


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## woody67 (6 Jan 2009)

Thanks BSM - It's been bothering me for a few days now - wanna buy some second hand lenses?? :wink: :wink: 

Flea bay it is then. What's a good second lense to look out for? 

Mark


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## RobertMP (6 Jan 2009)

Because Canon cameras have one of the shallowest body face to sensor depths you can get adaptors for a surprising amount of lenses made by other makers - Minolta included. All they do is provide a mechanical mount for the lens on the body - the camera controls cannot make it focus or set the aperture but the cameras metering will still work.

Macro lenses even if they have AF are usually used in manual focus and setting the aperture yourself is no hardship so it may be worth the £15 or whatever it is for an adaptor off ebay just for the macro lens.


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## Vormulac (7 Jan 2009)

lurker":3nmjcc2j said:


> I'm still uming & arhing.
> 
> I have a film Olympus OM2n with some really nice lens so I'd like to put them back into use if I can.
> 
> ...



This all sounds very familiar, I went into Jessops to get a Cokin filter set at the weekend, the young chap behind the counter looked slightly dumbstruck and then said "What's it for, Canon or Nikon?", not wanting to have to beat an appropriate response into his skull I made my excuses and left.
Believe me Lurker, your mate who is into photography uses a Canon and like the vast majority of keen photographers is almost totally biased by the kit he already uses, it's one of the most brand-snobbish hobbies/past-times you can find! The only way to find which slr you want is to work out your budget and then go a large shop and try them all out, because if you don't like the way it feels, you're not going to use it, no matter how brilliant it looks on paper or how much your mate likes it.
I bought a DSLR about a year ago and as I do tend to, I did a ridiculous amount of research on the subject. Naturally, if you look long enough you will find completely contradictory information, but the crux of it was that they will all take excellent photos if you know what you're doing. With that in mind I looked at the specs for each of them and decided on an Olympus as it had a feature non of the others did. I then went into a large Jessops as I happened to be passing and decided to look at the camera I would be ordering online later that day - boy am I glad I did! I didn't like the Olympus much, rather like the Canon it felt like a toy with nasty cheap plastic, the Nikon was far better, but didn't have many of the features I was looking for. The Sony was ok but at that stage no-one was really sure where Sony were going with their SLRs, so I decided against that one, then I picked up the Pentax that all the websites are so snooty about and it clicked instantly (pardon the pun). It fitted my hand perfectly, all the controls were in the right place, it was fast in operation, felt robust and had a few nice touches none of the others did.
Now, if money was no object would I have bought a Pentax? Probably not, all the things I love about the Pentax are available from the other manufacturers, you just have put some extra '0's on the price.
My point is that no-one can tell you what the camera *you* will want to use is, you have to try them out first and don't be dissuaded by anyone's opinion, try them all.

In answer to your question, in my close circle of slr-user friends we have a Canon user, two Pentax users (including myself) and an Olympus user. The Olympus user is very happy with it, but it as we discovered with considerable annoyance at my son's christening it will often not work in low light conditions, it just fires off continuous strobes from the flash, dazzling everyone, ruining everyone else's photos and making everyone squint. However, my sister and brother in law are both professional togs and they use Olympus.

Hope this helps.

V.


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## Blister (7 Jan 2009)

wizer":2s1yiqam said:


> Before I got fully addicted to woodworking, I went down the route of photography. I love to look at photographic images, my other half and i share the same tastes in this area. For some reason I could never get the technical side of photography. I can compose a shot very well. But I've never broken out of auto settings.
> 
> My camera is a Nikon D50 and I really like Nikon camera's as a whole. There is a brilliant website that you can spend hours on written by a guy called Ken Rockwell. Go have a look he's a realy nice guy.



wizer , The D50 you have , is that the special edition one :lol: 
with no memory card , it saves battery life and time , and you cant take any photos with it ? but it looks good in the hand !!


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## wizer (7 Jan 2009)

#-o ](*,)


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## cutting42 (7 Jan 2009)

Vormulac":348almpo said:


> Believe me Lurker, your mate who is into photography uses a Canon and like the vast majority of keen photographers is almost totally biased by the kit he already uses, it's one of the most brand-snobbish hobbies/past-times you can find!



Hear Hear Vormulac

This is so right, and I am just as guilty of it wanting to justify my own decision by getting others to join in and buy the same as well. 

The Pentax story is a bit sad really, my dad was a huge Pentax fan with 5 or 6 Pentax film bodies, mostly ME super but his dream camera - the LX pro quality camera was his pride and joy in fact even since his digital defection he still uses the LX for black and white arty pictures. He defected to digital before Pentax had a real digital solution and joined me on the Nikon trail. I see that Pentax are drifting away from the mainstream from their strong position a few years ago. In the film years it was Nikon, Canon, Minolta Olympus and Pentax as the top 5 with not much between them except the real high end Nikons and later the Canons. Now in terms of market share it is Nikon and Canon dominating with Sony(Minolta) a distant but gaining third. Olympus are really struggling and Pentax are in danger of falling off the chart.

This was 2008 in Japan Europe will no doubt be different.

In terms of brand names: 

Nikon : 39% 
Canon : 38% 
Sony : 8.5% 
Olympus : 3.8% 
Pentax : 1.6% 
Panasonic : 1.4%

This is the market share for individual camera models: 

1 Canon EOS Kiss X2 with 19.1%
2 Nikon D60 10.9% 
3 Nikon D80 10.6% 
4 Nikon D40 9.1% 
5 Canon EOS Kiss Digital X 8.4% 
6 Canon EOS 40D 6.7% 
7 Sony α350 4.2% 
8 Nikon D300 3.3% 
9 Sony α200 2.6% 
10 Nikon D90 2.2% 
11 Canon EOS 50D 2% 
12 Nikon D40x 1.9% 
13 Canon EOS Kiss F 1.8% 
14 Sony α300 1.7% 
15 Pentax K200D 1.6% 
16 Panasonic Lumix G1 1.4% 
17 Olympus E-510 1.4% 
18 Olympus E-520 1.2% 
19 Olympus E-420 1.2% 
20 Nikon D700 1%


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## Racers (7 Jan 2009)

Hi,

I agree with Vormulac about the snobbish nature of photographers they are all ways eyeing up your camera to see what you have got, I used to put a peice of black tape over the Olympus on my OM2 and watch them strain to figure out what it was, I recon most didn't have a clue wat it was, try it its a great laugh.

Pete


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## Vormulac (7 Jan 2009)

Oh yes indeed, I've had the sneers from other enthusiasts about my feeble Pentax, they didn't half look sour when it started to rain and they had to dash under cover because their 'superior' cameras weren't weather-proof though. I was able to switch around in the collection of 20-30 year old lenses I bought for peanuts off ebay too as the mounting is the same now as it has been for 35 years and as the image stabilisation is in the body, not on the lens - that always gets a grumble or two as well :lol: 
I'm not knocking anyone's decision, you have to get the right one for you, I would have a full-frame Nikon if money was no object (ignoring Hasselblad craziness for a moment!  ) but the people who are so stuck up about these things really have *very* little idea what they are on about.


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## Digit (7 Jan 2009)

I'll say! I remember years ago when I was in camera club and the secretary turned with with his new super duper top of the range Japanese Ying Tang Tong SLR. I asked him why he had changed from his previous model.
'The other one was too soft focus for my liking.'
Knowing the model he had been using I was surprised. Then I found out that despite spending an arm and a leg on cameras he was enlarging with a cheapo enlarger with a diffuser screen and a Wray bottle bottom!

Roy.


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## Lord Nibbo (7 Jan 2009)

Vormulac":ukf58eez said:


> Oh yes indeed, I've had the sneers from other enthusiasts about my feeble Pentax,



Pentax!  Thats almost a gloat compared to my Chinnon from Dixons :lol: I thought back then in the sixties I was the bee's knee's with that Chinnon. :lol:


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## woody67 (7 Jan 2009)

:shock: :shock: :shock: .....SO.....Have I done OK buying my Canon 1000D ?? :wink: Personally, I love it - especially the natural fall and feel to hand. 
Got some good snaps of Simon Weston today at a nursing conference - quite an inspirational, cheerful and motivated guy....anyone like to add?

Thanks

Mark


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## Racers (8 Jan 2009)

Hi, Mark 

If you like and it fits your hand and you use it then you have done all right, no point in getting one you won't use.
Pete


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## Vormulac (8 Jan 2009)

woody67":3lp2ddoj said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: .....SO.....Have I done OK buying my Canon 1000D ?? :wink: *Personally, I love it - especially the natural fall and feel to hand. *
> Got some good snaps of Simon Weston today at a nursing conference - quite an inspirational, cheerful and motivated guy....anyone like to add?
> 
> Thanks
> ...



Bingo - that's the magic phrase I've highlighted above, that's what it's all about. If you love the feel of it and find it works for you then you are going to want to use it. There is a saying that 'the best camera is the one you have with you', if you love it you are more likely to have it with you and learn how to use it. It amuses the Hell out of my missus that I carry my camera to work every day, I just can't bear the thought that I might see something I want to capture and not be able to.

Incidentally I met Simon Weston years ago when he visited my school in Plymouth, I held the door open for him and he stopped for a chat, smashing bloke.


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## bugbear (8 Jan 2009)

woody67":22h5qgo1 said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: .....SO.....Have I done OK buying my Canon 1000D ?? :wink: Personally, I love it - especially the natural fall and feel to hand.



Technology is a good and wondrous thing.

Most DSLRs (and many of the better compacts) are far better than most of us will ever need.

I admit that these photos aren't "art", but that's my fault, not the camera's, and they were taken with Canon compacts (A510 and A630)

















So (at the risk of annoying the purists), "any" (half decent) camera will serve.

analogy; if you're only able to drive at 100 mph, the distinction between porsche, maserati, bugatti is irrelevant (but still genuine).

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (8 Jan 2009)

bugbear":n1qvv071 said:


> Technology is a good and wondrous thing.



Must disagree - where photography is concerned it just gets in the way. Why can't these nerds who design cameras just produce something simple and reliable (like, for example, the film-based Nikon FM2). Set the shutter speed, set the aperture, focus the lens, press the shutter. Simple as that.

Less is more........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (8 Jan 2009)

Paul I think you've fundamentally mid-understood what a nerd is. 

Think of it in the world of the illegal drug trade. The nerd would be your average junkie. The designer would be your producer in Holland who is ever trying to up the addiction ingredients.

Nerds buy cameras because they have cool gadgets, Photographers take good pictures.

Yours

N. Erd. Esq


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## Paul Chapman (8 Jan 2009)

Thanks, Tom - that's about as clear as an instruction book for a DSLR :? :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (8 Jan 2009)

I was merely pointing out that the designers are not the nerds, it's us lot who want to buy things that look shiny or have cool gadgetry on them that are the nerds.

A good photographer takes a good picture.

A nerd can use gadgets to _possibly _get a good picture.

So I basically agree with you but place myself in the nerd category.


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## Paul Chapman (8 Jan 2009)

wizer":10z4btin said:


> I was merely pointing out that the designers are not the nerds, it's us lot who want to buy things that look shiny or have cool gadgetry on them that are the nerds.



The problem is that the designers don't/won't design what we want to buy. They just keep piling on more and more irrelevant stuff then pass the product to the marketing men who convince you nerdy types that you simply can't live without it. Then you buy it, the batteries pack up or some of the electronic wizardry gives up the ghost and you throw it in the bin and go and buy the next wonder-camera, and so it goes on.

It really all started with electronic news gathering and newspaper photographers sending back pictures via their laptops.

All a bit of a shame really - Cartier-Bresson never had all these problems.......

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## duncanh (8 Jan 2009)

Paul Chapman":brbgmlx8 said:


> Must disagree - where photography is concerned it just gets in the way. Why can't these nerds who design cameras just produce something simple and reliable (like, for example, the film-based Nikon FM2). Set the shutter speed, set the aperture, focus the lens, press the shutter. Simple as that.
> 
> Paul



Paul - it's easy enough on my Konica Minolta 5D digital SLR to use it manual mode if you want to(turn mode dial to M and leave it there if that's all you want to use, set the shutter speed with a dial, set the aperture with a button and a dial, focus manually). Simple as that.
I'm sure it's similar on most DSLRs.
I usually use A mode though so I don't need to worry about setting shutter speed.



> Then you buy it, the batteries pack up or some of the electronic wizardry gives up the ghost and you throw it in the bin and go and buy the next wonder-camera



As well as the SLR I still use the compact that I bought in 2001. It's never broken and I'm still using the original batteries.

Duncan


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## bugbear (8 Jan 2009)

Paul Chapman":2145vbfe said:


> bugbear":2145vbfe said:
> 
> 
> > Technology is a good and wondrous thing.
> ...



It's technology that gives us the ability to design colour corrected 11 element lenses, 1/2000th second shutters (using titanium blades), fine grained film...

If you want to see what a lack of technology can do, try using any pre 1950 optics (camera or telescope/binocular). They're pre-computer designed (via ray tracing) lenses, and (compared to anything post 1970) look AWFUL!

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (8 Jan 2009)

bugbear":1xqbrju2 said:


> If you want to see what a lack of technology can do, try using any pre 1950 optics (camera or telescope/binocular). They're pre-computer designed (via ray tracing) lenses, and (compared to anything post 1970) look AWFUL!



That didn't stop people like Cartier-Bresson and Bill Brandt taking the best photographs ever.........

You are right, of course - from a purely technical point of view, cameras and lenses are far better these days. It's just a pity that all the technology gets in the way of taking photographs.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (8 Jan 2009)

Paul Chapman":1o95ttf4 said:


> bugbear":1o95ttf4 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to see what a lack of technology can do, try using any pre 1950 optics (camera or telescope/binocular). They're pre-computer designed (via ray tracing) lenses, and (compared to anything post 1970) look AWFUL!
> ...



I agree many "features" are not needed, but most can be disabled, or ignored.

BugBear


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## cutting42 (8 Jan 2009)

Paul Chapman":3nhrv5ix said:


> That didn't stop people like Cartier-Bresson and Bill Brandt taking the best photographs ever.........



I note your wink but I think the technology is a huge enabler. Bresson, Brandt, and the other gods of photography are artists who just happen to use cameras rather than any other medium. The autofocus, program exposure, digital processing and other technologies make it possible for us mere mortals to take acceptable quality images for our own family and personal pleasure. As we improve our technique if we are interested, we can use the manual modes and upgrade to DSLR cameras. My wife and kids can use my DSLR in full auto mode and get lovely snaps. When I want to get all Ansell Adams I can put it on a tripod on manual and mess with exposures, f stops and filters to get certain effects. The technology is there if you want it. Artistic ability is the same whatever the technology.


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## woody67 (8 Jan 2009)

cutting42":21e8va3q said:


> Artistic ability is the same whatever the technology.



Got to agree with you there Gareth. \/ 

Mark


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## virtu (9 Jan 2009)

Just so happens that technology of photography was very advanced already in 1950's, just check and try properly tuned medium format folding camera like Agfa Isolette (www.certo6.com)

Last year when visiting Equador and Galapagos Island, I was taking most of the shots with Canon D400, but still preferred the photographs taken by 120 format film, what you loose in speed and convinience in film you gain by taking better thought out photographs.

Ideal for digital slr for me would be to get full frame digi back to my Yashica FX-3 ;-) 

It's the dilemma of too much invested to give it up, having almost all the various Yashica ML objectives...


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## big soft moose (9 Jan 2009)

RobertMP":1oo995v7 said:


> Because Canon cameras have one of the shallowest body face to sensor depths you can get adaptors for a surprising amount of lenses made by other makers - Minolta included. All they do is provide a mechanical mount for the lens on the body - the camera controls cannot make it focus or set the aperture but the cameras metering will still work.
> 
> Macro lenses even if they have AF are usually used in manual focus and setting the aperture yourself is no hardship so it may be worth the £15 or whatever it is for an adaptor off ebay just for the macro lens.



It isnt quite that simple - without the electrical conection the TTL metering wont work so while setting the apperture yourself is no hardship (providing of course that the minolta lense has a manual apperture setting ring, not all do) you would also need a light meter to tell you what the correct exposure is and would have to set the apperture on the lens and both the apperture and the shutter speed on the camera.

I still would really question the wisdom of spending several hundred quid on a dslr then using lenses that negate 90% of its features - this would be rather like going out and buing a porsche then fitting the wheels off your old mini to save a few quid.

to my mind the best bet has got to be to get eos fit lenses , and if you cant afford a dedicated macro you will still get better results using ext tubes (with ttl conectors), or close up filters than you would by adapting a minolta lense.

one proviso to that is that if you have a f1.8 50mm prime amongst the minolta lenses it would be worth keeping and using with a reversing ring for macro (this is a ring that screws filter thread to filter thread enabling you to reverse any make of lens onto the front of your canon 50mm or short zoom , and in essence to use it as a very high quality close up filter)


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## John. B (10 Jan 2009)

Like Tom (wizer) I have a Nikon D50. Previous to digital I've always used Canon. 
When digital arrived it was then a choice between Nikon and Canon. Nikon won mainly because for similar spec, The Nikon came out cheaper. 
Quality wise I think they are about on level par.
Funnily enough our D50 is now regarded as 'Entry level' cameras, mainly I think on pixel count. 
If you click on the link in Tom's post he will tell that it dosen't matter a jot, because as he says "The most important part of a camera is the 12 inches behind the lens.

John. B


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## Blister (10 Jan 2009)

A camera can do nothing , go on try it ! put it on the table for a week and nothing will happen !!

until the user picks it up , 

finds a subject , 

composes a shot , 

and presses the button , 

then if the shot is rubbish its down to your finger it pushed the button 

:wink: 

I was big time into photography 

still have my Pentax 6x7 mk11 system and about 6 lenses 

10D Cannon with 2 lenses

and my trusty G5 Cannon , I love that camera its great , us it for all my posts on here :wink:


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## TonyW (10 Jan 2009)

Cmon guys stop messing about get a proper camera :lol: 

Such as this Linhof Kardan






Then a proper light meter





Or choose a digital spotmeter





Add a selection of lenses and a few double dark slides plus a tripod and see how you get on :lol: 

Cheers  
Tony


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## big soft moose (10 Jan 2009)

I made the mistake of taking swimbo to see a joe cornish talk before xmas - she now wants to be a landscape photographer and would love one of those (though shes more likely to wind up with a shen tao 5x4 unless i win the lottery)

however shes stuck with my mamiya 645 (and canon 20D) until we get some more money together.


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2009)

TonyW":1eqcitww said:


> Cmon guys stop messing about get a proper camera :lol:
> 
> Then a proper light meter



The mk V is generally preferred 

Anyway, how about a digital view camera...

http://www.betterlight.com/why_better.html

BugBear (who has cameras other than digitals...)


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## kafkaian (27 May 2009)

Blister":1dyzi19p said:


> and my trusty G5 Cannon , I love that camera its great , us it for all my posts on here :wink:


Have to agree Blister, the G5 is cracking. After purchasing my Canon 450d last summer (and lately, a whole host of lenses - gulp), I was going to put the G5 on ebay but I just can't do it. To me it's like the equivalent of a Leica rangefinder. Just superb for that pocketable shot. Still have my Nikon film stuff though when I'm feeling nostalgic plus an old Agfa rangefinder.


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## Blister (27 May 2009)

kafkaian":102y45vc said:


> Blister":102y45vc said:
> 
> 
> > and my trusty G5 Cannon , I love that camera its great , us it for all my posts on here :wink:
> ...



8) :wink:


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## brianhabby (27 May 2009)

big soft moose":mw8kdcqc said:


> I made the mistake of taking swimbo to see a joe cornish talk before xmas - she now wants to be a landscape photographer and would love one of those (though shes more likely to wind up with a shen tao 5x4 unless i win the lottery)
> 
> however shes stuck with my mamiya 645 (and canon 20D) until we get some more money together.



You could always make your own  







regards

Brian


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