# Bootfair Brass Infill



## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

This should make a nice project....I never cease to be amazed at what you find at bootfairs...







It has a really narrow mouth...






Now all I have to do is choose...Brazilian or Box....mmmm






and then either get the stock and fire up the enamel kiln or speak nicely to Aled....Aled?






At only a fiver this weighs in just just shy of 4lbs and is 8" by 1 1/4" solid brass.

It has a few filled cast holes but other than that...this is going to be a beautiful project...watch this space for WIP

Jim


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## Oryxdesign (12 Jun 2010)

Looking forward to seeing this one.


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## woodbloke (12 Jun 2010)

That will turn out to be a cracker Jim :wink: - Rob


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## head clansman (12 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 

it's no good me being :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: aint got the time at the mo , not enough hrs in the day , but hell i am . good luck mate this will be my rest time watching your WIP refurb this little buet. so come on mate i need a break .    hc


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## rileytoolworks (12 Jun 2010)

Jeez Louise Jimi!
You either have the best car boots in the world, or you're the King of Car Boots.
You should go on Car Booty.
Can't wait to see what you do to this. Going on your past record, it's going to be stunning.
Good luck mate.

Adam.


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

HA! Yes I do have good bootfairs BUT...as I said to Tom...you have to be early...it is pointless turning up at any time except right at the start as the dealers will beat you to it...I missed a Norris smoother before this one but that sold for £200 which was probably about the right mark.

You have to be a right galoot or plane slope nut to even recognise what this was so the dealers passed it by. I was just lucky an ikey mo didn't pick it up for the scrap value...very lucky!

Clearly it was a reject from an old factory as it has never been "infilled"...the casting pits may very well have put it beyond sale but it is now worth finishing many many years later.

I would appreciate help from the infill experts here as to how the infill should be on this. I think it should have a horn at the halfway point...if I am not mistaken. I am craving to use English Box...but I may very well restort to some rosewood...but if so...I think some recycled Brazilian would be the only choice. Any other ideas?

It is really strange because had this been finished...any restoration would have been a sin but....since it was never started then I am going to take it down level on each surface...whittle up a blade....bang in a few bits of exotic scrap (I see a trip to Timberline coming on)...and then use it!

Cheers

Jim


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## AndyT (12 Jun 2010)

There's a possibility that it might not be very old - a few companies have had a go at selling castings as infill kits - I think there was one called Shepherd. Bristol Design (in Bristol) still have castings like it for sale - but I expect they cost more than a fiver!

Well done - I'm sure you'll make a good job of it. 
I'd suggest going through some of the pictures of the high end stuff sold at auction and matching yours up - at the David Stanley site here

http://www.davidstanley.com/index.html

or Tony Murland here:

http://www.antiquetools.co.uk/about.php


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

Thanks Andy...you have been most helpful.

Jim


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## yetloh (12 Jun 2010)

Jim 

Have a look at Karl Holtey's website if you want to see some gorgeous shoulder plane infills. Box would look very nice indeed.

Jim


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## head clansman (12 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 

recycled brazilian wood would be traditional , but, hm box wood sound good to me different , cant Waite till the refurb starts , I'm going to enjoy this one. hc :wink:


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

Yes...the Holtey planes are superb....maybe I should aim for this one...






Not dovetail..of course but this gives me some choice of infill and the lefthand one...the boxwood...mmm I love that one....but the others are beautiful too...ebony is very understates and as you say HC...rosewood...my favourite wood and the traditional choice...

So...just squared up the body a bit....still ages to go yet but it is coming along...
















I think the 01 stock that I have is a bit thick....maybe not...I will have to check...but it's a pipper to cut into a spade...

Later...

Jim


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## AndyT (12 Jun 2010)

Could this be the project that your lovely lump of burr elm has been waiting for?


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

AndyT":brwo0m3k said:


> Could this be the project that your lovely lump of burr elm has been waiting for?



Then what would I use for a photo stand? :mrgreen: 

From general concensus...I think the burr elm would be too fragile for the wedge...or am I wrong here...

I would love to use it for that....dearly love to....

Jim


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## rileytoolworks (12 Jun 2010)

Jimi, infuse it with resin, like Blue Spruce do with their mallet heads.
It'd be pretty indestructible then!
It WOULD look the b0ll0cks.


Adam.


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

RILEY":2h3ezxrb said:


> Jimi, infuse it with resin, like Blue Spruce do with their mallet heads.
> It'd be pretty indestructible then!
> It WOULD look the b0ll0cks.
> 
> ...



This was exactly what I had in mind last time we discuss the uses for my elm Adam.

So...if I do this...do I just get some liquid resin like the West System...mix in some hardner and then soak it in it...or is it more complicated than that?

Jim


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## head clansman (12 Jun 2010)

hi jim 

no no jim, box wood . hc


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## rileytoolworks (12 Jun 2010)

jimi43":3aisjp2m said:


> RILEY":3aisjp2m said:
> 
> 
> > Jimi, infuse it with resin, like Blue Spruce do with their mallet heads.
> ...


I'm sure others more knowledgeable than I are going to provide the answers, but here's a setup I've been contemplating for a while....
Using a vacuum chamber and vac pump to draw the resin into the timber, as in resin infusion.
I hope to get the chamber done shortly, just have to source the components.
Check out youtube - there's loads of videos showing resin infusion, veneer dyeing etc.
I've been toying with the idea for stabilising burr blanks to make marking gauge heads.

HTH.


Adam.


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## jimi43 (12 Jun 2010)

I've kind of got used to it as a photo stand for tools now....

But I know where to get some more so I might try it even if it isn't for this job.

I have to admit...the first time I saw this....






I wanted to use boxwood.

But...rosewood is still my most favourite wood to work with....

Just another question....

With the iron/blade...is it necessary to bevel the spade end?

Jim


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## ali27 (13 Jun 2010)

Is it just me or does the backhandle resemble the 
handle of a saw? 

Beautiful plane that last one, but the handle kills it
for me.

To be honest, the plain yellow coloured boxwood is
also not my taste.

Ali27


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## wizer (13 Jun 2010)

RILEY":ia84no63 said:


> I'm sure others more knowledgeable than I are going to provide the answers, but here's a setup I've been contemplating for a while....
> Using a vacuum chamber and vac pump to draw the resin into the timber, as in resin infusion.
> I hope to get the chamber done shortly, just have to source the components.
> Check out youtube - there's loads of videos showing resin infusion, veneer dyeing etc.
> ...



Hi Adam, this is one of the things on my list to do with my Vac Pump. Would be interested to see what you come up with.


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## head clansman (13 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 





> Just another question....
> 
> With the iron/blade...is it necessary to bevel the spade end?



not sure what your asking here do you mean leave the blade square on the end or bevel as its shown on the chip breaker. hc


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## jimi43 (13 Jun 2010)

head clansman":wrn5gg6f said:


> hi Jim
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Same terms as a chisel HC...is a beveled side required or is just a front cutting bevel ok.

Bevelled:







Plain:






or is the latter just for bullnose and chisel planes?

I am not a great shoulder plane expert, this is the only one I have used/seen other than the Aled one I made. So I am totally ignorant of the need/no need for the beveled edge on the sides of the spade.

Yes....Ali...I can fully understand your comments on boxwood as some see it very plain indeed. I have grown over the years to appreciate the very fine and subtle grain, the beautiful colour aging....

But I can see it's not for everyone. At the other end of the scale...the extreme figuring of burr wood also holds me spellbound. The fact that there is no possibility of duplication of the grain also makes individual pieces unique.

I am still on the fence on this one.

Jim

Jim


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## head clansman (13 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 


ah i see what you mean now from the pics , i don't suppose there is any reason to have or not have a bevel really,it's down to you really if it twear mine :roll: , I would bevel it not just because it may look better but because when your using it in a rebate it gives a little lead out clearance space for any odd shaving / bits of debris . hc


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## jimi43 (13 Jun 2010)

Gotcha HC.

I have also checked the stock that I have of 01 and it's perfect. A tad wide but I have to cut it down into a spade anyway so a sharp hacksaw blade and a couple of days sawing should do it.

As I didn't find a laser at the bootfair this morning cos I slept in! (Boy, did I need that sleep!)  

Off to build my sharpening/grinding jig for the Creusen setup now...more WIP on that later...in that thread. Then I can properly bevel the blade for this without standing there for hours creating it on abrasive sheet!

Cheers mate

Jim


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## AndyT (13 Jun 2010)

A couple of years ago I made a shoulder plane (riveted steel with infill but utilitarian, not beautiful).

I found that bevels on the side were essential for being able to thread the blade through the tight space. If you have a chance to look closely at a commercial shoulder plane, try taking the blade out and looking at how little clearance there is. The bevel makes it just possible for the blade to clear the gap when posted through corner to corner.

With a wooden rebate plane, the throat is entirely open so the blade can go through without twisting, and doesn't need bevels.


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## jimi43 (13 Jun 2010)

DOH!!!!

Of COURSE!

Thanks Andy!!!

Jim


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## woodbloke (13 Jun 2010)

jimi43":2eti2elh said:


> As I didn't find a laser at the bootfair this morning
> 
> Jim


Now I'm _really_ disappointed...I was expecting to log on this morning and find you'd acquired this:






You need to try harder next week Jim :lol: - Rob


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## jimi43 (13 Jun 2010)

There's one SLIGHT problem with that Rob...I didn't go...!

I had such a tortuous week at work..that a lie in seemed the only sane option.

I do have a midday bootfair nearby but by then I was into the grinding jig setup and couldn't be bothered.

Don't worry though..I have spoken to Goldfinger and he has a stall next week so I will see if he has any cast offs!  :wink: 

Anyway...after the infill body, a nice Sorby mortice chisel and an old trammel yesterday...I was happy! 8) 

Jim


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2010)

I did some more work towards restoring this today...

First I bought some Indian rosewood from Axminster...a turning blank. The last one I purchased was rather nice...not Brazilian..but there ya go..beggers and all...

I am trying to source some English box but to date it is a bit difficult without going to see Timberline...

I accidently bought a Veritas jig while there for my grinding jig...so I am trying not to distract myself too much! :wink:  

Then I did a bit of Googling...with the idea of trying to find a suitable design...and lo and behold, our ubiquitous Derek of the Colonies had a close one he restored...thanks Derek....






That is an interesting article Derek...especially the iron rivetting! I guess today you would just make a new one?

This is the one that caught my eye...I simply LOVE the horn...






Just a little nuance but very beautiful...

I also saw some ebony today and thought of the wonderful Sauer and Steiner shoulders...






The Indian rosewood tends to be a little bland for me and nowhere near as nice to work than its Brazilian relative...but hell...it was less than a tenner so I can always use the huge lump for other things like replacement totes etc.

I am going to be patient with this one...off to fiddle with the steel for a bit...and maybe refine my grinding jig a tad...will come in handy when making the shoulder plane blade (or is it iron with shoulder planes..I never know...what do the snobs think? :wink: )

Jim


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Jim,

I have a nice blank of zebrano if you want to go for something a litlte jazzy - great find though, I envy your bootsale-Fu.


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2010)

ByronBlack":32qwpj6d said:


> Jim,
> 
> I have a nice blank of zebrano if you want to go for something a litlte jazzy - great find though, I envy your bootsale-Fu.



Hi Byron....

That is really strange...when I was in Axminster today...there were some zebrano blanks and I had a look at them and mulled over the idea...but in the end, my love of rosewood got the better of me. I think it is the pleasure of working with the wood that does it..I simply love the smell..

I will see how this comes out with the rosewood and may take you up on that if it doesn't work out...thanks mate..that's very kind of you to offer.

Here is the blank that I bought:






I wanted a big enough bit so that I can match grain without having to get another piece if I under estimate for the whole infill...

First...I cut a closer blank out and squared and smoothed the sides using my trusty No.7....I really love that little plane!






Indian rosewood tends to tear out more than Brazilian so the sharp iron was essential...at LAST...tests for my faffing around with scary...and grinding jigs and other "theoretical" edge refinements over the last week...

There was virtually no tearing at all, just nice curly shavings...






Then over to the bandsaw..(what would I do without that baby)...to cut out the rough shape....remembering to ALWAYS cut very shy of the line...






The inside of this infill is really convoluted...in fact...it's a blinkin' nightmare! My little Aled kit shoulder plane came in handy here to create the ridge inside...and it performed perfectly!






The inside front of the infill hooks forward as you can see...this creates a very positive lever alignment to pull the whole infill down inside the cavity...very clever....but a nightmare to get just right...my Japanese chisel simply whizzed through the remaining trim:






Now for a test fit...






A bit of filing needed there on the brass to line the bottom edge up but the leverage worked perfectly....just a small tap with a leather mallet and it fits perfectly...






....actually...it was too darn perfect....I had a hell of a job getting it out again!






As you can see, enough waste to spend some time trimming it down flush and enough of a lump at the top to put a horn in...if I fancy...

Now....to fiddle with the 01 a bit...I really MUST get a metal cutting blade and one of those small table saws...  

Later...

Jim


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## Benchwayze (14 Jun 2010)

How wide is the infill void Jim?

I have some sawn 1" English Walnut here! 
Ahh I see you already started! 
:lol: 


John


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2010)

Benchwayze":33j3e0h4 said:


> How wide is the infill void Jim?
> 
> I have some sawn 1" English Walnut here!
> Ahh I see you already started!
> ...



Again...very weird John! First Byron offers me some zebrano...and I was looking at that and English walnut at Axminster today and then you offer me some of the very same! 

Unfortunately it is a tad over 1" thick...but you guys are so very kind in all these offers...

I thought English walnut was beautiful...these were turning blanks...and I could have just fitted the shape with a small round one...but in the end I chickened out...again...for the very same reason. You never know, I may not like this when the grain is revealed....it's difficult to tell at this stage.

Thanks anyway mate.

Jim


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## ByronBlack (14 Jun 2010)

Nice progress Jim, I'll watch this one with interest, I think its going to look great.


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## AndyT (14 Jun 2010)

Looking again at your casting, it has two odd 'ears' sticking up in the middle. None of the otherwise similar planes you posted has these, and I don't think I've ever seen one which does.

I see that you are following the shape of these with the wood - do you think they are really meant to stay there? Could they possibly be something that you need to grind off? (But don't do that unless you're sure - I'm just wondering out loud here!)

Has anyone else found a plane of exactly that shape, with the ears on?


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2010)

AndyT":1t6o0mta said:


> Looking again at your casting, it has two odd 'ears' sticking up in the middle. None of the otherwise similar planes you posted has these, and I don't think I've ever seen one which does.
> 
> I see that you are following the shape of these with the wood - do you think they are really meant to stay there? Could they possibly be something that you need to grind off? (But don't do that unless you're sure - I'm just wondering out loud here!)
> 
> Has anyone else found a plane of exactly that shape, with the ears on?



Hi Andy...I see where you are going mate...like the casting tabs on an Airfix model plane kit!

But I think these are designed in not casting tabs. I will continue to look for one similar...that is the fascinating part of projects like this!

Jim


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## woodguy7 (14 Jun 2010)

i'm with andy, i would have the tabs off. really nice looking project so far & i will follow with interest. If it goes pear shaped i have some brazilian Mahogany i could send you. I am sure it will all go smoothly but the offer is there if you want it. All the best, Woodguy.


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## Vann (14 Jun 2010)

jimi43":1nw1shrd said:


> ...will come in handy when making the shoulder plane blade (or is it iron with shoulder planes..I never know...what do the snobs think? :wink: )


This snob thinks they're called "irons" in all planes (except Record call them "cutters" I think :roll: ).

Cheers, Vann - of one of the other colonies. 

ps I like your work (so far...)


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## jimi43 (14 Jun 2010)

Vann":3nirkeep said:


> jimi43":3nirkeep said:
> 
> 
> > ...will come in handy when making the shoulder plane blade (or is it iron with shoulder planes..I never know...what do the snobs think? :wink: )
> ...



Ok Vann...irons they are...

I wouldn't want to get on the slope without the correct pair of skis!  

Thanks for your comment...I think this is going to be a lovely piece...

I couldn't wait to see what the whole plane will look like so here is a very select corner which I whittled down tonight and finished with some MicroMesh....






I am not keen on the open grain of this Indian stuff...but I do like the slight purple tinge and the smell is still gorgeous...

Now to start a search for a "horn eared" plane of this type...you've started something now Andy!

I have left it as it was for now with enough rosewood to do "something" above the ears...

Later guys....

Jim


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## rileytoolworks (15 Jun 2010)

Looking gorgeous, as expected from you Jimi.
What grades of Micromesh have you taken it through? Do you get yours from WH?
I've never used the stuff, but you've single handedly inspired me to get some. The finish you achieve is awesome.
What do I need?
Sorry for hijacking the thread mate.


Adam.


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## jimi43 (15 Jun 2010)

RILEY":1gaj0uvd said:


> Looking gorgeous, as expected from you Jimi.
> What grades of Micromesh have you taken it through? Do you get yours from WH?
> I've never used the stuff, but you've single handedly inspired me to get some. The finish you achieve is awesome.
> What do I need?
> ...



Hi Adam

Thanks for the compliments mate...really appreciated.

I am a major fan of 3M MicroMesh as you say...

Matthew sells the Scary Sharp system and lapping films which are for metal sharpening but the stuff I use is the grey or blue MicroMesh set which I got originally from fleaBay....although Matthew may now sell it...

Click here for the supplier I used to use who is brilliant...

You start with any old 240 grit Aluminium Oxide paper...I happen to use some of the expensive Swedish stuff by EKA but that's only cos I got it for next to nothing at a bootfair (loads of it)....

Then I move to MicroMesh which starts at 1500 MESH (not to be confused with grit) and goes up through 1800, 2400, 3200, 3600, 4000, 8000, 12000 and you will get the finish like above.

This stuff is really superb for turning...if you are making a handle or tote:







Try it....you will be very happy! AND...you can wash it out and dry it and use it again and again!

It works out very cheaply in the long run!

Andy...I put a post up on the Handplane Central forum...

Click here

and it looks like you may very well be right....they are casting tabs.

That being said...I looked hard at them again tonight and I am not 100% sure....I can't believe they were not just ground off when they did the pitting fill-in.

I'm not in any great rush to finish the front bit...as I have to cut the iron tomorrow and then fire up the kiln to harden it...so all that should take me to the weekend given the shifts I am on...

I will keep searching and watching out for any similar planes..I would hate to cut them off only to find it is some sort of radical Slater or Norris design. 

It's where they are that get me. Because the plane is HUGE and heavy I am thinking they would be JUST right for a thumb position on say a horn to push the front along a bit better. What do you think?

Jim


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## jt (16 Jun 2010)

There's a picture of a hotley plane with similar, albeit much more substantial "ears" in Christopher Scwarz's blog

http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/bl ... Loopy.aspx

Maybe you have accidentally picked up a prototype casting


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## jimi43 (16 Jun 2010)

jt":s2nhwzoj said:


> There's a picture of a hotley plane with similar, albeit much more substantial "ears" in Christopher Scwarz's blog
> 
> http://blog.woodworking-magazine.com/bl ... Loopy.aspx
> 
> Maybe you have accidentally picked up a prototype casting



Those are more like love handles Jim!    

I am still just this side of thinking they are designed in. I fail to see why someone would spend time rounding off rather than cutting off the tabs...doesn't make sense.

Jim


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## flounder (16 Jun 2010)

I would definitely keep them in. Even if they are casting tabs, then by keeping them it would make your plane even more unique than the others that may have been made with them removed!


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## AndyT (16 Jun 2010)

Doesn't it come down to usability (with appearance following closely behind)?

When you use a shoulder plane, the shape of the top matters a lot, affecting how comfortable it is to hold and pull/push with one or two hands.

I think you should make up a wedge as well (maybe an experimental one from ordinary wood) so you can experiment with the shape of the whole tool. 

If it feels comfortable and usable with the tabs, keep them! I agree they do look too clean for something extra for casting, but until someone finds a plane somewhere with something similar, I think they are not supposed to be there.


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## rileytoolworks (16 Jun 2010)

Jimi, thanks for the link mate. Just ordered a set.
Can't believe a grown assed man is getting excited about 'sandpaper'!!!


Cheers Dude.

Adam.


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## jimi43 (16 Jun 2010)

I think that you will be happy with it Adam....great stuff.

Ok...well while the debate on my "ears" carries on...I thought I would whittle up an iron out of the left-over 01 steel stock that I bought for the Galoot plane.

I am a glutton for punishment and now have a left arm like Popeye....






(note to self...save up for a Proxxon!)....it's coming on...






A little over two hours later....and one dead hacksaw blade...






and well spotted about the bevel Andy...it doesn't fit otherwise!

But it does with the bevel....






I have to finish off the micro-adjuster on the Creusen grinder to get it dead right so stopping here...






Next step tomorrow is to make a temporary wedge...

Update on Handplane Central....discussing the "ears":



> Hi Jim,
> Infill horns didn't really affect the sides of shoulder planes as such, and in 25 years or so (and many thousands of shoulder planes seen over that time) I've never seen side protrusions like that on any shoulder plane - not even on user-mades.
> I can't tell from the pictures but the protrusions look like they have different widths. If that's the case then it seems more likely that they are just casting tabs.
> Also, 8" by 1-1/2" is a stock standard size for a plane of this type - plus the heavier it is, the better.
> ...



So looks like you are spot on Andy...(unless of course you are also known as "admin"    :wink: )

Later guys and gals...

Jimi


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## AndyT (17 Jun 2010)

Looking good - well on the way to a new species - the long eared plane!

Btw while I think of it, I was unsure about whether the side bevels ought to be sharp - the answer I was kindly given on here was that No, they shouldn't - unless you want blood stains on all your wood!


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

AndyT":1l288axf said:


> Looking good - well on the way to a new species - the long eared plane!
> 
> Btw while I think of it, I was unsure about whether the side bevels ought to be sharp - the answer I was kindly given on here was that No, they shouldn't - unless you want blood stains on all your wood!



I think I will keep the ears...I mean..it's a talking point now and should flummox all the slidy shavey gurus in 100 years time! I think I will engrave something in code on the seat....just to add to the intrigue...but "Mum's the word" right? :wink:  8) 

As you can see...I have stopped short of scary sharp bevels and will probably leave them at 45 deg too...or I may do a "Holtey" and polish them to a mirror shine...not sure yet!

I have been tinkering with the iron today...forming the tail into a nice little bun...will probably harden it Saturday...and make a temporary wedge.

I may in fact change out the rosewood too....I have ordered "something exotic" so not sure if it will work yet...but that is part of the fun init!?

Jim


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## head clansman (18 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 

very very nice matey, don't that learning curve just get bigger & bigger with every plane you do, keep them coming , following with interest,,looking forwards to see the finish job 8) . hc


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

head clansman":1a78116f said:


> hi Jim
> 
> very very nice matey, don't that learning curve just get bigger & bigger with every plane you do, keep them coming , following with interest,,looking forwards to see the finish job 8) . hc



Watcha HC...that is very nice of you to say old chap!

Indeed...that is what intrigues me about all of the finds...the history...the techniques...the research and the choosing of wood....all of it is so very educational and fascinating.

I am having fun with this one.

Jim


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## head clansman (18 Jun 2010)

hi Jim 

It's the intrigue in making thing like this, that got me interest enough to make a replica 1600 century flintlock pistol back in 1978 i just want to see how difficult it was to make , judging from the tools they must have had in those day i know it was bloody difficult for me to do with modern day tools. hc

yea less of the old  i'm only 61 yrs young, still a boy


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## Racers (18 Jun 2010)

Hi, Jim

I think you should cut off those tabs and over stuff it like this one of mine,






It makes it much nicer to a handle.


Pete


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## head clansman (18 Jun 2010)

hi Pete

rounded ends must be nice to fit into the palm of the hand, comfort, is that big brass bolt the original idea for a plane like that . :?: hc


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

Yeh....I was torn between overstuffed and flush but on reflection...and this is only a personal choice mind...I prefer the flush...but just for you I might do both with the exotic I am getting...(can't wait!)

I am keeping the ears....making a horn....and then if I don't like it or it's uncomfortable...I can saw them off and make it flush....

I would have a job doing that the other way around! :wink: 8) 

Jim


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## matthewwh (18 Jun 2010)

Hi Jim,

If you do want a bit of 1-1/2" English walnut I've got a piece that would fit with a seriously wicked curl in it. I just sent a chunk of it to a customer to replace a lump of Jarrah that had a crack in and she was absolutely over the moon with it.

I have seen originals with the horn in the centre so it is definitely an intended design feature rather than a casting tab. The ones I have seen were slightly overstuffed in the body with the horn infill cut flush - looks really attractive if it's done well. I'm trying to think which make of plane I have seen it on, I'm 90% on Slater but I couldn't be certain.

Looking at this I seriously tempted to get a run of castings done, I don't know about you but I'm envisaging it in Box, Sapele, Ironwood, Corrugatta, Ebony, Buffalo horn, even Micarta......!


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

Hi Matthew

Thanks for the comments and also some direction with my ears!!

I too believe that I have seen a Slater but it had the horn on the infill and I am sure it didn't have prominent tabs....viz....






but I still can't see why they would round these over if the were tabs...just cut them off!

I think there would be a serious market for just the plain (plane!) castings for people like me who would like to finish such a gem but don't have the metalworking skills (yet!). I have to ask though...would it be commercially viable? Perhaps you would know that better than most...China perhaps? Gunmetal would also be a "luxury" version.

As far as infill wood....as I said earlier...I was looking at English walnut and am seriously tempted. If you want to send me a bit I would be happy to whittle it up in comparison...I am over the internal measuring now...which was the difficult bit.

You need to see what I have ordered for the "exotic" too...I am keeping it under wraps at the moment so as not to spoil the surprise but it is unique...and hugely repeatable...(not a contradition as you will see! :wink: )

I think I want to do some permutations...flush..overstuffed....this wood...that wood. I have the luxury of time to test and we can put it to the vote.

My only worry is that I can utilize the ears correctly...an ancient example would be most helpful!

Jim


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## ByronBlack (18 Jun 2010)

Matthew - I'd definitely buy a casting as a project, I think it would be a very popular item, after all, woodies love making their own tools, and if you can give them the basics (and some usefully sized exotic timbers) you would have them flying off the shelves.


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## Benchwayze (18 Jun 2010)

I wouldn't mind trying one of Ron Brese's small smoother kits. 
I wonder if he would sell just a casting?


John


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## rileytoolworks (18 Jun 2010)

Matthew, I'd say that idea has legs.
I can see loads of people (on here alone) who'd be interested.


Adam.


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## matthewwh (18 Jun 2010)

I see the potential but also a risk. I once bought a block plane kit from a firm in the states and it was such a magnificently P155 poorly ground beach sand casting I had to calm down and dry my trews before taking it back to the post office.

If t'were done t'were better t'were done well, so I'll have a chat with our friends at QS and see what they can come up with. Any preferances as to reasonably well finished or really inexpensive but rough as a grumpy foundryman's language?

As far as the ears go, the ones I have seen are a straightforward stuff between the ears as you have them, finished to the same standard as the body but flushed straight across. Reason would suggest that this provided placement for the web of the thumb whilst trimming cheeks and fitted neatly between second and third finger while trimming shoulders. I've had a good rummage through google images but it's not the same since they stopped showing ebay photos.


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

I think that the finish is not as important as the flatness and squareness of the sides and sole.

The owner can then fettle it as much or as little as they wish without having to straighten out required dimensional imperfections.

The ears have it Matthew...as I said...I want to keep them and the logic prevails over experience I am afraid...I agree with you...they are put in a logical place for those activities but I will try and also pass it around for views...once finished. If the worse comes to the worse I can always hack them off at a later date.

I would be interested in a size similar to the medium LN....this one is too big for me really and the Aled one is great but too small for larger jobbies.

Say 7 3/4" by 3/4"??

Jim


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## Vann (18 Jun 2010)

Racers":3aw8b0ob said:


> I think you should cut off those tabs ...


I think you should leave the tabs.

Of course, I've never used a shoulder plane, so I don't know what I'm talking about. But you should leave them anyway.  They match your 'horn' and they'd be a sod to refit at a later date if you did cut them off.

Watching with interest.

Cheers, Vann.


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## rileytoolworks (18 Jun 2010)

Matthew, I agree with Jimi, and will go as far as saying the casting could be rough, as long as there are no serious defects.
You could possibly also sell it as a kit, with infill blanks, iron blank/scary sharp kit etc.


Adam.


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## jimi43 (18 Jun 2010)

Hi Vann

This is becoming very interesting indeed and I believe we have a divided school of thought here...your conclusions being my conclusions...but lookit what I did espy:







Close but no cigar BUT it proves the concept...

Jim


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## jimi43 (21 Jun 2010)

Well...I had to work 24hrs without sleep yesterday and dozed this morning so I was determined to progress this further today...so it was off to do the wedge...first to cut up the blank:






Please note...these are staged shots...I am not Norm and not nuts! That blade from Ian is lethal!! Highly recommended too..it fair cuts like butter through this rosewood and even though it is a 3 skip...it is a reasonably fine cut and I can't be a*sed to change to a [email protected] fine one.

So...learning from the Aled one...always leave enough stock - and 8 degree included angle!!






Remember that Sweetheart iron from the bitsa...well it whizzes though this..nice curly shavings....






Lord..I LURVE working with rosewood...everything about it is beautiful...even the Eastern stuff...I even burned some shavings last night when it was chilly and the lounge smelled like perfume....






Test fitting the wedge...






This actually was spot on first time out of the vise...I must be getting used to this stuff!






I think the "ear" looks right now it is infilled...it is exactly in the place for the thumb...but without testing it on wood...I can't tell definitely yet...






The iron fits perfectly...just look at this mouth!!!






Lateral adjustment works fine...plenty of sideways movement to line up the edge in the mouth...






...so I am pretty happy with the rough blank...the iron and the fitting...






Then....I thought...I would just create an echo shape....I find the Holtey to angular for my taste so I wanted to echo the rear infill bump...parallel all the way top and back...and I was just finishing it off when the courier arrived with my surprise..........

I am absolutely delighted with some new stock I received...BUT...BIG PROBLEM...now I have an even better photo stand!! :roll: 






Hot from the courier...my new figured stock...some more burr elm...some wych elm and some Australian Jarrah...oh and some figured yew...(more on the others later)....

So now I have a really difficult decision on my hands...






My idea was to use dense burr for the infill and then some wych for the wedge....but I keep getting great photo stands!!!!  






I have some inner corner finishing to do and hope to fire up the kiln sometime this week...probably tomorrow if I am lucky...but I think that is enough for today!

But....before I go...the sun came around the front of the house and I couldn't resist a little artsy photography...






This is called "BORN AT LAST".... 8) 


Cheers guys and gals!

Jim


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## ByronBlack (21 Jun 2010)

Lovely job Jim, that should prove very useful over the years.


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## stoatyboy (22 Jun 2010)

well done indeed - lovely piece of work, I'd be stupidly proud if I'd done that.


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## AndyT (22 Jun 2010)

Jim

I don't know why you had to get more wood - if I were you I'd be including your new pride and joy in every photo!

Seriously nice job - but how does the shape feel in use? What about use on its side on a tenon shoulder?


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## jimi43 (22 Jun 2010)

Guys...you are so kind...

Each one of these projects is a learning curve...as John says...a steep one! 

I am really tempted to try the Wych Elm...is is gorgeous...but maybe next time. I haven't glued the infill in yet - I am that much on the fence...but I will finish this one off with rosewood as it stands..it polishes really nicely...

So...now to fire up the kiln this afternoon and then cut some shavings...little point in going further without a roadtest.

Cheers

Jim


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## woodbloke (22 Jun 2010)

matthewwh":2dipdrb9 said:


> Looking at this I seriously tempted to get a run of castings done



Secret Santa pressie anyone?..nice job on the plane Jim btw - Rob


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## MickCheese (22 Jun 2010)

Fantastic. Really enjoyed reading this thread.

I think it needs chamfered edges like the Holtey one on page 1.

Mick


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## jimi43 (22 Jun 2010)

Yes Rob...I think if Matt manages to get some by October then this would make an ideal Secret Santa. That is because it is mostly all labour...

I will warn you though...once you infill one of these behemoths you will want to keep it in a cage at home!!!

I've been tossing the bevel/no bevel question around in my head for a while Mick. I will continue to think about it and study options....good point though!

Ok so let's give her some teeth!

Out comes the kiln again guys.....






For those of you who have not seen this baby before...it's an enamel kiln...another bootfair bargin...which happens to go up to about 1000 degrees and has a temperature probe. Although it isn't a thermostatically controlled one...sitting next to it was MOI...hitting the on/off switch for 15 minutes...nothing to strain me brain! :wink: 

Pop it in gas mark 5 for 15 minutes then get the missus to stand by with a camera and a fire extinguisher...then pop it out.






I must admit...handling steel that is glowing at nearly 800 degrees frightens the living poo out of me...hence the protective clothing...mostly leather. I am a chicken but I'd rather not be a Kentucky Fried Chicken...especially plunging into oil!






It does make a LOT of smoke for a small iron!






Off to cool in a pre-heated oven at 250 degrees....






I hate this bit....the waiting....

Later guys and gals...

Jim


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## jimi43 (22 Jun 2010)

Ok the fun starts now...

The iron came out fine...shaved hairs and all that...I'm virtually bald now!  

So...does this old lady with a facelift make shavings....too right it does!!






I went a bit mad....! 8) 

One thing I didn't know...the end of the wedge on most shoulder planes is shaped like the bow of a ship....NOW I know why! It acts as a woodplow...forcing the shavings out the side...with the wedge remaining blunt I ended up with long concertinas!!!

Guiding the initial part of a shaving out first....cut nice spirals...so I need to shape the front of the wedge:






So I borrowed SWIMBO for some action shots...(she really is getting quite good at this photography lark...)






WHIZZZZZ...






...and I get that whooshing sound again...luvit!

So...does it cut nice rebates....yup!






Tomorrow I can finish this off with confidence...confidence that it cuts as well as the baby Aled....which was used to make the infill...






Kinda nice feeling that.....

:wink: 

Jim


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## Jake (22 Jun 2010)

Beautiful job (and photography!)


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## woodbloke (23 Jun 2010)

Great job Jim. If I could make one suggestion, I'd take off the sharpish arris's on the edge of the brass...maybe a little chamfer of some sort? - Rob


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## Philly (23 Jun 2010)

Excellent work, Jim!
Philly


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## jimi43 (23 Jun 2010)

Yes Rob...I think the jury has just returned from the debate and a bevel will be added...I will do that as a final tweek once I get the sides and front/back done...as you can see, I am putting off the front for a while as I build a little jig to run it sideways to follow the machine scratches in line with the side. This will cross the end grain of the rosewood so I want to get the dead right....

Phil...thanks mate...that is praise indeed coming from your good self...in fact...your work is one inspirational target that keeps me from saying I have finished...one day...one day... 8) 

Some more pictures following the "woodplow" carving of the tip of the wedge...it now chucks the shavings out the side...like a shotgun...in little spirals...






The woodplow...






...the wedge...needs a tiny bit of finishing at the transition...






Bevel still to be added once the final metalwork has been completed.....






The iron is sitting about 1 thou up off the front seat on one side...I think that there must be a tiny bit of rough casting up the spout somewhere...

Nil desperandum....will find it...

Will do some further testing on test tenons after the stupid game on TV...(only patriotism ya know!  )

Jim


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## jimi43 (25 Jun 2010)

Starting to do the final touches today and yes...the bevel is the way to go....






I have only done one side so far and it is quite a challenge by hand but if Karl H can do it....

Tenon testing went well today also but I have some tweeks to do..then I will try it on some hardwood.

Later

Jim


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## MickCheese (25 Jun 2010)

Jimi

The bevel looks so much better and I believe will make handling the plane much more comfortable. It also takes the plane up a notch making it look a more professional tool.

Looking great.

Mick


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## jimi43 (25 Jun 2010)

Yes Mick...all the "bevel" supporters were right...but it's a difficult decision because once you start you are kind of committed! :wink: 

Anyway...we are nearly there...so just to look back a bit to the first day....

A fiver at a bootfair...







....now after much soul searching...fiddling....sawing and firing...grinding and polishing...then bevelling D )






There is a fine art to this bevel business!






I have to accept that the casting was rejected in the first place...there are some deep pits which get amplified by finishing but it is still a gorgeous little bit of brass....

...the "woodplow".....






....the infill....Indian rosewood...






....ah...and "those" ears! They work...sometimes the thumb is needed there....so they stay!...






...the wedge....






I could have done better here...next time maybe....






.....I'm happy....






...NOW...who was it that said there was not enough space in my plane cupboard.....DRAT....how did you know! :mrgreen: 

I enjoyed that...and I hope it was interesting to others....

Now....Matt...about those castings..... 8) 

Cheers lads and lasses

Jim


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## Jamesc (25 Jun 2010)

Fantastic result and thanks for sharing it with us.

I for one have enjoyed every instalment.

James


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## woodguy7 (25 Jun 2010)

Looks georgous & i have enjoyed following. One thing, is the blade slightly narrower than the body ? That could be an issue.

Well done, Woodguy.


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## jimi43 (25 Jun 2010)

woodguy7":39vsz491 said:


> Looks georgous & i have enjoyed following. One thing, is the blade slightly narrower than the body ? That could be an issue.
> 
> Well done, Woodguy.



Yes...you have good eyes...it is indeed! I screwed up on the first pass of the bevel...it's a few thou short. I will make another...

Thanks for the comments guys....I get a great kick out of seeing something for which time was not kind, shine again in the present...






:wink: 

Jim


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## Henning (26 Jun 2010)

That is absolutely fantastic work! 

I've been enjoying following this very much and i am at awe of the result!


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## Dan-K (28 Jun 2010)

I've also enjoyed every instalment, and the end product is excellent. 

I've just seen something on ebay that instantly made me think of this thread again - item 140419801309 - it has ears!!  You made me want ears so much I nearly fell down the slope again and put in a bid, but I can't justify it for a tool I don't have any use for currently  





Is it really a Marples I wonder?


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## jimi43 (28 Jun 2010)

Guys! You are most kind....thank you indeed.

Dan...ah! Ears....well mine is going to keep the ears now...and to be honest...sometimes...when you are using the plane in a certain way...they fit right there where they should be.

I have no doubt that this debate will wimper on...some big brains in the infill word say "no" and I bow to their experience...but I simply can't see them as casting tabs which is really the only other option.

I have squeezed some room on my plane shelf...






Looks like I may need to build another one....






So this slope...how steep is it again?

    

Jim


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## MickCheese (28 Jun 2010)

Jim

Really impressive. I have thoroughly enjoyed the thread.

What's next?

Mick :wink:


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## woodbloke (28 Jun 2010)

jimi43":14n2admk said:


> :
> 
> I have squeezed some room on my plane shelf...
> 
> ...


Jim, you've clearly entered the downhill slide of the plane 'collector'...I count 11! The steepness of the 'Slope' is directly proportional to the quantity of cc's in your wallet and indirectly proportional to the twitching frequency with which your hand reaches for the same...of course if you've got the breaking strain of a Kit-Kat, then the effect of both parameters is quadrupled and you're truly doomed :lol: 

...I'm now at a modest 20 planes  - Rob


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## WoodAddict (29 Jun 2010)

Cracking job Jim. An inspirational thread. It's spurred me on to fettle my bootfair plane that I bought this weekend 

Thanks for sharing 8)


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## jimi43 (29 Jun 2010)

Mick...once again..thank you so much for your kind words.

Paul...I am glad that this has inspired you...in my view...restoring old vintage tools is a superb way of getting some decent kit which does the job and doesn't set you back a mortgage. Granted I lust over LN and Veritas, Clifton and Bridge City but since I cannot afford these (yet)...I will continue to fix up old bootfair jobs...and it keeps me fit at weekends too!

Rob...I know mate...but I have to admit I have never bought a plane from a shop...sad init? All my collection originates from grimey boxes at bootfairs....except ONE...that tiny little IBEX which came from fleaBay at great expense and is frankly....cr*p!

The even sadder thing though...lurking on the bench are...um...quite a few more planes...  

I am slowly selling them though...the duplicates like my "other" No.7...






I have been so busy I haven't even had time to tune that old boxed Record....but it must go soon....

Watch this space!  

Jim


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## gasman (29 Jun 2010)

Dear Jim
What an outstanding thread - I agree it has truly made me enjoy every minute of it.
If you wanted to get rid of that #7 I would be quite interested...
Regards
Mark


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## jimi43 (11 Jul 2010)

Thanks Mark...that is very kind of you to say that.

Today I was surfing FleaBay and espied this little baby (click to see what it went for!)






Over 300 squids!! :shock: 

You can see from this one the horn....I wonder if it moved on from that to mine. Notice also...the lack of bevel! :wink: 

Since working on the window frame easing out the inside this last week....I have found that my thumb does indeed utilise the "ears"....so I guess they should be there after all...it is still intriguing though!

This is definitely the best one on the shelf...I think it will be a keeper.

Jim


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## Chems (11 Jul 2010)

Get it on the bay and see what you get for it!


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## Evergreen (13 Jul 2010)

Jim

I've been away for a few weeks and while I've been gone, you've created a bloomin' masterpiece!

I've been particularly interested to catch up with this thread because as you can see from my avatar, I've got a vintage Slater shoulder plane and the subtlety of its design always fascinated me. You've done a proper job!


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## jimi43 (15 Jul 2010)

Evergreen":3e0hhijw said:


> Jim
> 
> I've been away for a few weeks and while I've been gone, you've created a bloomin' masterpiece!
> 
> I've been particularly interested to catch up with this thread because as you can see from my avatar, I've got a vintage Slater shoulder plane and the subtlety of its design always fascinated me. You've done a proper job!



You are too kind my friend! But thank you.

I looked at the Slaters mostly in my research. They are fascinating indeed and the "ears" on this one are particularly interesting.

I go through phases too of bevel/no bevel...flush/overstuffed....that sort of thing but the overriding feeling for me is that they are all beautiful...and it is a wonder to use. The weight is definitely an advantage...mine is a real user and...Chems...I am tempted but this is a keeper for sure.

Jim


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## Mr_P (17 Apr 2014)

I joined this forum just over a year ago and I'm still finding gem's like this.

I'm sure lots of folk on here who have joined after 2010 will enjoy this thread 

Well done Jimi, we are not worthy.


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## jimi43 (17 Apr 2014)

Good LORD mate...that's an old one for sure...I had to do a double take when I saw it in the Hand Tools forum and started reading it with interest until I realised it was my old thread!! HA!

I actually thought someone else had found an old reject casting similar to mine!

Many years (yes years!) hence...that old shoulder plane still gets used occasionally..I never did get around to making an oversized iron for him...I just got onto "other things!"

He still takes pride of place on my mantelpiece along with a "few" others more recently acquired and I think it's about time I got a new mantelpiece! And don't get me started on the woodies!

Jim


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