# Choices



## Alexam (23 Dec 2015)

In selecting a suitable scrollsaw there are always comments - For & Against each model on sale, but there seems to be general agreement that the best is Hegner, followed by possibly the Excalibur and the new Axminster Trade series AWFS18- unless there are others up there?.

Are the problems that many 'machines' have, just a case of the 'tuning' of the particular machine, rather than actual problems that cannot be corrected?

I am considering the Excalibur scrollsaw, which many owners have been extreemly happy with, but others condem and was wondering if this is just the skill needed to fettle correctly, as with things like bandsaws?


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## Aggrajag (23 Dec 2015)

I'm leaning towards the Excalibur myself because I like the blade angling rather than the base. I'm interested in all comments here too.


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## ChrisR (23 Dec 2015)

Malcolm.

I cannot offer advice on any other make of saw as I have only owned/used a (Hegner). I have had the saw for many years and in that time have never had to replace any parts with heavy use, other than blades.

As others have said in the past, (Hegner) is overpriced, I think this is because they have a ready market in education establishments and don’t have to compete in the open market. One point I would make against (Hegner) is that they only fit (NVR) controls to the educational models, the domestic models just have a flimsy little toggle switch on the end of the drive motor, so the first thing is the purchase of a (NVR) or make your own as I did.

I like the idea of the tilting blade frame on the (Excalibur), the (Hegner) has a tilting table and I have found when cutting on a steep angle for segmented bowl rings etc, it messes with my brain/hand coordination, but I would think that with the (Excalibur) having the table staying level this would be a better option. 
Could be just my crazy brain of course. :? 

Not a lot of help I know, but a couple of points to ponder.

Take care.

Chris.


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## Alexam (23 Dec 2015)

Thanks Chris,
I was reading your response to AES comments on his birthday present a few months ago. Nice present that. What I would REALLY want would be the owner of either an Excalibur 21 or a Hegner multispeed, who bought their machines just a year ago and wanting to give the hobby up having just seen my advert in the wanted column. Now that would be good.

Happy Christmas and a great New Year


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## AES (23 Dec 2015)

@Alexam:

I've just replied to your PM. Thanks for that.

In that PM to you just now I referred to a post on this thread in which I replied to your questions re "Choices" as best as I could. I now see that my post has not appeared for some strange reason. Disappeared into the ether it seems!

So just for the sake of completeness as far as other readers go, although I have only had my Excalibur 21 since early May and still have not had as much chance to use it as I wished, it has had quite some use and I'm absolutely delighted with it. I'd happily recommend it to anyone.

Just as Chris has said the real clincher for me is the tilting saw head - I've had a scroll saw with a tilting table before but now I've experienced the tilting head I'd never willing go back to a tilting table again. But of course, not everyone needs tilted cuts very often!

I also agree with Chris in that when I looked at Hegner side by side with the Excali, I thought the Hegner was actually over-priced - yes, it was very good quality for sure, but the Excali is just as well made IMO, from "sensible" materials and including "non-cheese nuts & bolts too. In my case the Excali worked out at about 15% cheaper than the Hegner for a machine with a "better" spec (i.e. throat size and tilting head rather than tilting table).

HTH

Krgds & Happy Christmas

AES

P.S. I am NOT thinking of giving up, sorry! (hammer)


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## Claymore (23 Dec 2015)

I have the Axminster Hegner clone and love it Malcolm and if for any reason I needed another I'd probably go for the Hegner multispeed as build quality is probably better (there's nowt wrong with the Axi though) and its like the Rolls Royce of scroll saws but for now I'll stick with the Axminster.
I like the look of the Excalibur but not sure if its as well built as the Hegners?
Its amazing the number of Hegners that come up for sale on Ebay that have had little use so always worth looking out for them, I guess some buy them and decide scrollings not for them.
Cheers and Happy Christmas & New Year
Brian


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## NazNomad (23 Dec 2015)

The best scroll saw in the World is the one that does exactly what you need it to, within your budget.

The above statement was correct with my Ferm, my SiP and now my Delta.

I made some quite impressive automata with my old saws using pinned blades. It's just about working within the capability of the machine.

(By the way, my Tuffsaws bandsaw blade arrived today ... woohoo) :-D


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## Alexam (23 Dec 2015)

Thank you all, Andy, Brian, Cris & Naz.

I can hope that Santa may have heard what I want, bt I doubt it. Andy - I do understand that you have some years before you would part with your new toy.

Trouble is that I always want the Rolls Royce, or the best suite on a Cruise, but often need to move one or two down the list.

Happy Christmas to all and a very good New Year.

Malcolm


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## AES (23 Dec 2015)

To respond to Claymore's point about build quality, Hegner and Excalibur, I've had the opportunity to examine both minutely, and also to use both side by side. Personally I think that both are entirely comparable in terms of actual build quality but do agree that the Hegner has a somehow slightly higher quality "feel" to it. Can't say why, just one of those "feelings".

But NazNomad's point is also absolutely spot on too. When I first started with a scroll saw it was with a Dremel "Motoshop" in the 1980's. It was single speed, only used Dremel's own short, pinned blades, and had a wildly inaccurate tilting table. But I managed to produce some pretty complex model aeroplane parts in both balsa and ply with it.

OTOH, I was NOT using it every day to cut out decorative items for sale!

AES


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## martinka (23 Dec 2015)

The only thing that would put me off the Excalibur is the number of moving parts, compared to the Hegner. But if all the bearings are good quality, and at the price, they should be, then it shouldn't be a problem. Looking at the way it works, it should be even smoother than the Hegner.

I wonder if the Excalibur quick clamp is the same thread size as the Hegner? If it is, it could be a cheap alternative, and you can buy spares for it, always assuming you can buy them in the UK.


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## AES (23 Dec 2015)

If anyone wants to know, give me a shout (PM or on here) and I'll happily measure the thread. But I would say that the threads are Metric standard - i.e. coarse, not fine (as I guess the Hegner's would be too).

And BTW, the bearings look and feel excellent and the Handbook claims sealed for life - no lubrication required.

AES

P.S. Sorry forgot - please check but I THINK the UK distributor for Excalibur is Axminster Tools.

AES


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## Wildman (23 Dec 2015)

anyone still using and old treadle "Hobbies" fretsaw I wonder. I have one in my loft as a to do one day project, not sure that it actually needs a lot done other than using and maybe a coat of paint. I remember my father making toy forts and dolls houses in the 1950's with such a saw he also cast the lead soldiers and us kids spent hours painting them. Happy days so I could not resist it when it came up for sale locally. Sadly my workshop is filled to the brim with projects so I have to return to the Animal rescue centre workshops to do most things


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## loftyhermes (23 Dec 2015)

I use a Hobbies saw mostly demonstrating at craft fairs, I got it from Martin who started to do it up and I finished it.




happy scrolling
Steve


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## Alexam (23 Dec 2015)

As a lad I had a tredle fretsaw and made dolls house furniture for mytwo sisters.

Excalibur is distributed in the UK by Axminster


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## Sporky McGuffin (24 Dec 2015)

I suspect far too much time is devoted to trying to work out the "best". The more research you do and the more reviews you read, the less likely it is that you'll be satisfied with anything. Every tool has limitations and drawbacks; for almost any tool you'll easily find disgruntled buyers who had a freak failure or a rude deliveryman.

My suggestion, if you want to be happy (which is, after all, the main point of life), is to get to a list of about three, then buy whichever of the list is the colour you most favour and get on with using it.

This advice works equally well for scrollsaws, chisels, shoes, cars and many other items. I also recommend buying Paul Dolan's "Happiness by design", which is a jolly decent book about making better decisions in general. Other good books certainly exist.


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## Alexam (24 Dec 2015)

Thanks Sporky,

that' why I asked the question. I am already feeling that my 'aim' is a bit high for what I will actually *need *before I fall off my pearch. The New Year may see new thoughts on this.

You have a good Christmas


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## Sporky McGuffin (24 Dec 2015)

You too!

For reference I have the EX21 - I looked at the Hegner as well and decided that I liked the tilting head a lot. I've not used it that much - too many projects, too little gumption - but it's had some use and seems to do exactly what it's meant to. I have not used any of the others.


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## Claymore (24 Dec 2015)

"My suggestion, if you want to be happy (which is, after all, the main point of life), is to get to a list of about three, then buy whichever of the list is the colour you most favour and get on with using it."

I used that technique many years ago at a motorcycle rally...... I had 3 girlfriends on the go at the time and all of them actually turned up at the rally! so I picked the colour of hair I liked the most BUT soon realised nice exterior didn't mean nice interior and what a battleaxe she turned out to be LOL so ended up recycling a little used secondhand one and didn't need to spend any money doing her up LOL 9-)
Hope she doesn't spot this or Santa will fly past our house tonight without stopping lol
Cheers
Brian
ps will check out the book as it sounds interesting.


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## Sporky McGuffin (24 Dec 2015)

I found it useful - it's greatly eased my choice issues. What I liked in particular is that it's not a hand-wringing self-help book, which I think comes from (a) Dolan is British, not American, and (b) there's a lot of quantification and reference to proper scientific studies. There's usable advice too but it's primarily about how happiness works and how to improve your decision making.


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## Niimus (24 Dec 2015)

FYI -Axminster are currently throwing in the stand for the EX30 for free - a saving of 94 squid !

The offer didn't appear in the shop but I questioned it and they checked the web-site and agreed it was on offer so I got my free stand...


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## ardenwoodcraft (24 Dec 2015)

EX21 owner here as well. Never had a problem with it and it's done all I have asked of it. Not sure I would want to pay the current Axi price for one though, although still cheaper than Hegner. I'm glad I bought mine when I did!! 

I do a lot of stack cut items with lots of interior cuts and the tool-less blade clamps and lift up - stay up arm is invaluable to me for this type of work.

I have never had the chance to use a Hegner so these are purely my opinions on the saw I own.

I do know Excalibur scroll saws are as rare as hen's teeth on the second hand market compared to Hegners but if you see one and the price is good I don't think you could go far wrong with it.

Hope this helps,
Regards,
Dave.


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## NazNomad (24 Dec 2015)

Unless you're going to make a lot of baskets or shells, you're paying for a tilting head that you'll rarely use (in my opinion).

I can count on one hand the number of items I've made that needed anything but a perpendicular cut.


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## martinka (24 Dec 2015)

NazNomad":3gxm0zpr said:


> Unless you're going to make a lot of baskets of shells, you're paying for a tilting head that you'll rarely use (in my opinion).
> 
> I can count on one hand the number of items I've made that needed anything but a perpendicular cut.



I have only cut one piece with the table tilted in about 5 years, though I might utilise it more if I had an Excalibur next to the Hegner. When the house is sold, who knows what might happen


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## AES (24 Dec 2015)

So far I've tended to use my scroll saw for making parts for other stuff, not the "typical" scroll saw pattern-type items you see, and so far, no Intarsia (though that latter may change a bit next year).

Nevertheless I do find the tilt facility quite useful and overall, probably use it in about 20% of cases. So as they say, "your mileage may vary", but I do think that if you do have it you'll find yourself using it a fair bit - it's so much better all round than a tilting table. But I certainly wouldn't say you should buy an Excali just for that feature. As is so often the case, an awful lot depends on exactly what you want to do with the tool.

Happy Christmas to all

AES.


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## finneyb (24 Dec 2015)

Sporky McGuffin":11y9ijdl said:


> My suggestion, if you want to be happy (which is, after all, the main point of life), is to get to a list of about three, then buy whichever of the list is the colour you most favour and get on with using it.



I've got to disagree !!!! It's not the colour you like best it's the colour SWMBO likes best 

Brian


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