# Network Storage and Media Tanks etc???



## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Hi All,
Really confused here with all this techie stuff!  

My fairly high spec Dell desktop is in my upstairs office; I have a variety of secondary hard disks for my work stuff and backup etc, all fine and dandy.

I have a Netgear Router so that I can use my laptop around the house and it works ok in my downstairs living room.

What I want to do is install a large (2TB or 4TB) network attached drive upstairs in my office that will take all my DVD,s (200 ish); all my CD's and MP3's and all my photos.

If possible I want to use the RAID version that allows one disk to die without losing the data. (mirror??). This is not set in stone however.

I then wish to be able to access (stream?) these to what ever is needed in my living room so that I can view wirelessly them on my plasma screen (Panasonic Viera full 1080p HD). I think I need a 'media tank' whatever that is  

There is also I believe an option whereby you can use the house mains to give you improved 'wireless' signal if needed. (Homeplug??)

The jargon surrounding the NAS etc is very baffling to me and I wonder if anyone could help me out here as to exactly what I need to achieve this.

I am quite prepared to pay for someone's time on the phone if that is the way to go. I always value a persons expertise and have no wish to take the p**s! I suspect this is not a particularly straight forward thing that I am asking.

I have attempted to copy a DVD into Windows Media Centre and run it from there but cannot even get that to play on the desktop machine.  

Cheers,
Martin


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## jlawrence (29 Dec 2009)

OK, firstly:
NAS - network attached storage.
All that is is a server which exports various directories as 'drives' which can be mounted (attached) to any other machine on your network which has the appropriate permissions.
When it comes to streaming to a viera I believe there are a few limitations when it comes to resolution. Streaming HD doesn't (apparently) work - you'll need to check your manual.

I have a Viera but not one with the streaming interface.
What I do is:
Server (call it a NAS if you wish) in the office which stores videos and music (currently around 1TB worth). I export the various directories - music and video - as both nfs (*nix) and smb (windows) shares, which allows them to be mounted on any machine in the house.
The main network (wired) in the office is GigE, I have a couple of wireless access points and also use some homeplug units to extend the network to where I've no cables. The bandwidth of homeplug is limited so don't expect to stream to too many clients at once.
For displaying the video's and playing music from the server I use my laptop - with HDMI out. I'm in the process of building a small box for the lounge with a HDMI out so I don't need to use the laptop - will get it finished one of these days.

If you want to 'stream' HD content to the Viera then I think the best bet is via an additional box - ymmv.
I believe software wise you need to look for some that is dlna compliant. More than likely this won't be 'free' if you're a windows user. Take a look here for a comparison of some software.
Try and pick software that is capable of transcoding as this means you'll be able to change the type of file encoding so that it can be displayed by the device you choose. In order to transcode 'on the fly' you'll need quite a powerful box.

HTH a little.


ADDED:
Personally I'd go with a Linux solution but if you're not used to it then you'll struggle using it as a server.
As for drives, use the biggest you can afford.
I personally don't bother with RAID at home. For backing up the actual data (as opposed to operating system) I just have another box with 5TB of HDD's in there - it doesn't run permanently and only boots in order to take backups.


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Hi JL,
Thanks for the quick reply!
As I thought , sounds very technical indeed, :? 

I have no need or desire to stream High Definition form PC to telly, just want to be able to play DVD,s, play music and view my photos, while sitting in the living room in front of the box.  
I belive that it is possible to bring up a library of all your DVD/CD covers onscreen and then pick one to play, likewise with photo albums and also play/view internet TV UTube etc.

A lot of your reply goes way over my head I am afraid, but it does not sound easy  
Cheers,
Martin


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## jlawrence (29 Dec 2009)

Whatever you think about HD at the moment will change over the next few years.
I think it likely that a lot of things you down load in a years time will be HD.

It's not as complicated as it sounds. In reality it's just a case of buy a box, install the software and plug everything into the network.


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Hi JL
I did not mean to imply anything against HiDef, I love my SKY+ box and always watch in HD if possible.
Re my problem I guess it is that there seem to be so many conflicting opinions in the mags etc about which NAS drive to go for, which way to install the bits and so on; I really need an ABC type aid to get going.
Some say to use an XBox at the TV end, all very confusing.
Martin


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## RogerS (29 Dec 2009)

mahking51":36if761l said:


> .....
> Some say to use an XBox at the TV end, all very confusing.
> Martin



I looked into this in another thread particularly as it seemed to me that i could use some software on the xbox that made it think my Mac was a windows media server and my impression was that I could access and browse stuff from the mac by using the xbox plugged into the TV and, of course, viewing stuff there.

Then I realised that the xbox isn't available with iplayer AFAIK...but the Sony PS3 (playstation) has this and since we like the idea of using iplayer this is currently top of my list.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

I know Trim has been looking into this....

Tho, you appear to be asking for two separate things. A server for mass file storage, with backup solution AND a The functionality to playback files on the tv. These are different things that can work together. The latter, you're looking at MythTV or Windows Media Centre.

I'm just nipping out, will continue later.


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Tom,
To try and clarify:

I already have adequate backup drives as USB and firewire remote drives, more than enough for my simple needs, my really important files like stock book and accounts package back up daily to two separate locations.

The purpose of the NAS is to hold all my media (and therefore quite large) files in one hopefully well organised location and allow them to be accessed (wirelessly??) from my living room TV.

To add reasoning for all this: at the moment I have to go into the hall, get on hands and knees to look at rows of DVD's stacked sideways on in a cupboard, mostly I have to use a head torch and get a crick in the neck!
Likewise I have to load pictures from the PC onto USB keys and then plug them into the TV. I cannot tell you how many brownie points will be scored with SWMBO if I can just get this bit done so she can browse whenever she wants. Same problem with drawers full of CD's; can never find that one track you want to listen to from the favourite armchair, have to go upstairs into the office where I can find it instantly as MP3.

I am very tempted by the Brennan JB7 for just this facility but if there is a more integrated way thats how I want to go.

www.brennan.co.uk

Some NAS units come as empty cases needing hard drives, some with drives - what are the best specs to aim for etc etc. RAID or not RAID?

The media centre of things at the TV end is a total mystery to me despite a lot of reading, so many conflicting opinions. Some of these also have internal drives, some do not, some can take Blu Ray drives and add that facility (a minor +).

Just need some clear advice on the options and pros and cons. I do not know anyone who has this type of system up and running, is it that new?
Cheers,
Martin[/url]


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## RogerS (29 Dec 2009)

mahking51":3no04bw3 said:


> ......
> I am very tempted by the Brennan JB7 for just this facility but if there is a more integrated way thats how I want to go.
> 
> www.brennan.co.uk
> ...



Not if most of your music is classical. Nor does it handle video AFAIK. Other than that, and you not being bothered by viewing your library on a rolling teensy display or in having to peck away ad nauseam when you want to enter the name of the CD or DVD that you want to listen to/view then not much wrong with it.

I think that access control is critical...being able to see what you have available and request it to play from the one keyboard and screen (TV) is vital.


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## jlawrence (29 Dec 2009)

I'll have a closer read through the rest of this thread in a minute and formulate a better answer - step by step if you want.
The xbox software I use (though not on an xbox) is fantastic.
It's called xbmc. I use it on my linux laptop to connect to my 'media store' on the big box in the office. It works that well (and easily) that swmbo could use it without instruction, which is the test of anything connected in the living room - it must be easy to use and shouldn't need instruction for the most simple of tasks, ie playing a video.
Personally I can cope with the MythTV interface but it's not to swmbo's liking. You can't go wrong with the xbox software and it comes in linux, windows, mac and xbox formats which means you can use it on just about anything you can think of.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

Martin, stay away from the brennan thing. It's like stepping back in time. You're on the right tracks with what you need. I'm afraid I'm not up on this specific area, especially the TV software. I've heard people using an xBox for this, but on the face of it, it seems like a half pineappled solution. It seems to me, you are looking for the most trouble free solution. Linux is a big learning curve, even if you use a customised distro. If I get some time later, I'll do some googling for you. But you want to be looking at PVR software. 

The NAS backup\storage thing is really rather straight forward. You just need either a PC or one of those dedicated units. Redundancy is up to you. If money is no option then get it, simply for the peace of mind. Otherwise, I assume you'll be keeping all the media, so you _can _re-do it if you get a failure. If you chose redundancy then RAID-5 (Striped with Parity) is normally the best to go for IMO.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

One other thought Martin. I'd not rely on wireless for this. I just don't think it will be good enough for streaming reliably. If you can get a cable to it then all the better. Homeplugs is a system where you use your home electric circuit like a network circuit. Plug in a transmitter at the PC and a receiver at the TV and it's like having a continuous cable running between the two. There was a discussion about this recently if you want to search this site.

Have you seen these:

http://www.buffalotech.com/products/net ... ation-iii/


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## jlawrence (29 Dec 2009)

You are looking at one of two solutions.
1) dlna compliant server.
2) media storage server (effectively a nas) with a seperate frontend.

The first I'm not familiar with as my Viera isn't one of the dlna complaint ones - couldn't persuade swmbo that there was a need on the TV for a network connection .

Personally I'd go with option 2 as that then gives you more options.

Backend (NAS or whatever you want to call it): a big server (big as in plenty of drive space), processor isn't really that important unless you're wanting/needing to do on the fly transcoding. If building from scratch I'd go with a Core 2 Quad and appropriate motherboard. With regards to RAID, I wouldn't bother unless you've a hole burning in your pocket - decent SATA raid cards aren't overly cheap. You could use software raid but I have a feeling that might be beyond your current abilities (not being nasty here just realistic).

I don't know what 'out of the box' solutions there are for backends - any NAS would likely do the job you need. 
For the frontend device I'd go with one of these with hdmi output.

A couple of homeplug AV connections would suffice for connecting the two together. You can, if you need to, stream video via a 802.11n connection - not ideal but it will work - wired is better but not at all convenient in most living rooms.

Before you buy, you need to think how you are going to get your media onto the NAS. That means you need to think about what format your stuff is in - no point having the biggest NAS in the world if you can't get stuff onto it. That means having the ability to read BR, DVD's, CD's, vhs ?, USB etc.
So long as you can plug USB drives in then you can plug in whatever type of external drive you want/need to.

Bluray is an absolute mine field as far as PC's are conerned. The key that you need to read the disks is enough to give enven someone who knows what they're doing a headache - from what I can work out both the software and drive need to match up. From speaking with a few people there's no guarantee (even in windows land) that software will work with every drive - this will change as more and more keys become 'known' and the ridiculous situation is got rid of.

For the front end I like (as I've said) xbmc. I advise you download the xbmc live and have a try of it on your laptop to see what you think.
You don't need full PVR software on the frontend box - unless you're thinking of using it to capture/pause/whatever a live feed.


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## petermillard (29 Dec 2009)

I have one of the smaller *LaCie Cinema* drives for taking movies etc... away when we're on hols - one of the bigger units - *this one* has on-board N-WiFi and ethernet - may do the job you're after.

The one I have (same software across the range AFAIK) makes iPhone-sized movies perfectly watchable on a 32" TV, though obviously "perfectly watchable" may well mean something different to you, so see if you can try one out first!

A friend has an AppleTV which has an very slick front end (just like "Front Row" on a Mac if you've seen one) but doesn't have much on-board storage as it's really designed to sync with your iTunes on another PC, so may not be what you want. Easy to set up though.

HTH Pete.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

Have a look at Western Digital's WDTV box.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

Can we get an idea of budget Martin?


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Tom,
Budget around £1000 would be about it I would think, nice to be a bit under.  
Roger S,
I take your point about the JB7 Brennan unit, input and selection was the major drawback that I saw. Itwas for music only , not video.
Cheers,
martin


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

IMO you want something like this:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/video/Wes ... -WDTV-Live

http://www.trustedreviews.com/video/Asus-O--Play-HDP-R1

They are low cost, play direct from the network and have simple on screen functions. They haven't got tons of functionality, but if all you want to do it play video or listen to music, then they should be perfect. As you will be ripping all you media specifically for this purpose, then you should not have any problems with encoding. The Asus looks the better of the two, but there's not much in it.

If you really wanted to save money, then you could have all your storage on your PC and just buy a raid array device. I think, personally, I'd like a separate box plugged in serving files and handing the raid array.

To me, this should be prety simple to set up. You can make it more complicated if you like, but this will get your storage protected and your media to your TV.


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## petermillard (29 Dec 2009)

Nice front end on the WDTV - a lot nicer than my LaCie that's for sure - and cheap too. So, what are you going to spend the other 900 quid on Martin??

Edit:- Apart from the big external HD, obviously 

Cheers, Pete


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

yep, I had no intention of doing anything like this 'til Martin Piped up. Now I think I'm going to buy the Asus


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## RogerS (29 Dec 2009)

petermillard":1xifjmy0 said:


> Nice front end on the WDTV - a lot nicer than my LaCie that's for sure - and cheap too. So, what are you going to spend the other 900 quid on Martin??
> 
> Edit:- Apart from the big external HD, obviously
> 
> Cheers, Pete



The onscreen keyboard would drive me mad and unless you have HDMI then composite out kills it for me...mind you, same problem with the xbox.


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

If you start getting fussy like wanting keyboard support then the price starts to rise. The ultimate way to do this is to have a small form factor PC at the TV which you can run the software of your choice and have wireless PC and mouse. But no matter how much money you spend, it's the ugly option and takes more configuration to get it working like a normal set top box style on screen display. Then integrating that with either sky or virgin or freeview. Thinking about this, the PC near the TV is the option_ *I *_would opt for. But then I am very fussy about file storage and functionality. For someone who 'just wants it to work', I highly recommend the above units. You don't get complete control, but they are designed to work out of the box with minimal config.


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## petermillard (29 Dec 2009)

RogerS":2w0m2h7e said:


> The onscreen keyboard...



There's an onscreen keyboard - that's a big advance on the LaCie... 
Seriously, how often do you expect to use a keyboard in a menu-driven interface?? Shouldn't be necessary at all, really, apart from the odd search where you can't remember where you saved something.

BTW, I'm pretty sure you can plug any old USB keyboard into an X-Box and it'll work OK - it's the hardware that I wouldn't trust, personally (my son's on his 4th X-Box360, all failed just out of warranty). If you already have an X-Box then it may be worth a punt, but I'd never buy one just for this.

Cheers, Pete.


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## Jake (29 Dec 2009)

petermillard":2uldvdz3 said:


> Seriously, how often do you expect to use a keyboard in a menu-driven interface??



You are talking to a man who wishes to type in 'large hadron collider' into his media server and have it serve up a list of works sorted by composer, orchestra, date of recording, and venue.


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Both of the above look like interesting units and certainly appear to be very good value for money.
Has anyone looked at the Popcorn Hour and Netgear products and have opinions?

Regarding the NAS at the PC end of things, how exactly would one store a dvd on this? Disc image? Straight disc copy?
Would the info for the cover and menus be therein?
I have heard that you can get a system where the covers of your DVD's or CD,s appear onscreen and you scroll them and then pick one to play.

Do these things operate within the 'shell' of Windows Media Centre?

Sorry for all the questions but just trying to get my head around all the options.
Martin


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Found what looks like useful info here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/netw...rotection-performance-configuration-more.html
Checking it out now!
martin


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## wizer (29 Dec 2009)

AFAIK, to get the DVD and CD covers to display you will either need to scan them in or search for the cover online using something like google images. Getting the DVD or CD on to the PC\Hard Drive isn't as simple as direct file transfer. I'd suggest you need to do at least some encoding to save on disk space. Certainly with audio. This will require software, but there are plenty of free options for this.

I've just had a quick look at the Netgear EVA700. My initial thoughts are that there is no HDMI connection and it seems to rely heavily on Intel's Viiv processor being on a master PC. With the two units I referred to earlier, you can link them directly to a NAS file server without having to have a PC turned on.

Another quick look at Popcorn Hour suggests this is a better suited solution but at higher cost. I'll look into this further tomorrow and give you my thoughts.


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## mahking51 (29 Dec 2009)

Cheers Tom!
martin


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

I just read a couple of reviews of the popcorn products. The a100 started out looking good, but the only benefit over the Asus is it can hold an internal drive, which is not particularly essential. Their c200 unit is a step up, but I don't see that it's worth the extra money and by all accounts, the firmware is not robust enough yet. 

None of the units we've discussed so far have the capability to have a thumbnail image for each album or video. The only one that looks like it might do it is the TVIX products, but I can't find a review which clearly states this functionality. If this is important, you may need to look at the HTPC option.

If you are worried about the ripping\encoding thing, then I could probably help you out with this. It's not a big issue. There would only really be a problem if you already had gigs and gigs of media that was encoded in many different ways.

I think my opinion on all of this is to get your storage solution sorted and then buy the cheapest media player we've discussed here. Then when all your media is stored, you can play with it. Only then will you know what's right for you. If it turns out that you don't like it, the media player will probably reclaim most of it's money on eBay and you can upgrade. The beauty of this system, is that the files on the server will not need to be altered. The player is just like a front end. So you can chop and change without much hassle.


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## Streepips (30 Dec 2009)

and a ups? a powercut could make a mess of a setup like that.


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## bob321 (30 Dec 2009)

what i would go for is:

a backup server (need not to be very big depend on no of clients)
a file server (need dicent spec depends on media use) 
a hardware firewall and catche
a web server  :shock: (to host acess media around the world) 

8) 

all this protected by a ups or 2

and connected togerther with gigabit network or fiber  :shock: 8) 


iv got a file server and it has a SCSI port so i can make a HDD farm to expand storage :twisted:  8) 



*bob321*


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

Suddenly that bookcase with all the DVDs and CDs lined up neatly seems such a much more attractive alternative.

Jake...I'll try and explain in simple words for you why onscreen keyboards are naff. I'll keep the words easy.

My Humax has an onscreen FIND facility to locate any upcoming programmes. First flaw..the input field has the data last entered. So we need to clear it. here are the keystrokes. Down Down Down Down Down Down Right Right Right Right CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR . Now to enter in the new programme being looked for. UP UP UP RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT W UP UP UP UP LEFT LEFT LEFT LEFT LEFT LEFT LEFT A ......get the message? We haven't even got to the rest of LLA ...as in Wallander..which, incidentally will also pick up Wallace and Grommet so maybe we need the N as well.

Tom...re CD artwork etc. On my Mac I run a library program called Delicious (sorry, naff name, I know). To enter any CD or DVD is easy-peasy, just hold the barcode up to the inbuilt iSight camera and it reads the barcodes, goes off and gets the artwork from somewhere or other plus other information. So the information is out there. Browsing the 'virtual' bookshelf is pretty straightforward.

One other thought and that is DRM. That could put the kybosh on some things. Can one copy and access commercial DVDs to a NAS?

EDIT: This is quite a good article especially the video snip as it seems that he has achieved what the OP is after.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/12/canvas_and_the_connected_home.html


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## misterfish (30 Dec 2009)

We have a home network with a Netgear wireless ADSL box with 4 standard RJ45/Cat5 ports.

Attached to this is a Buffalo NAS only 500GB but larger multidisk RAID equipment is available from other manufacturers. This is just a box like an external hard disk that lives in the understairs cupboard and is managed/configured remotely from any PC on the network. Before buying this I read loads of reviews which were mostly horror stories, but after assessing the info went for the one with fewest reported problems. i followed the instructions to set it up and it has worked without problem for over 3 years. It also has two USB ports - in one we have an external USB hard disk that is now part of the NAS and in the other we have the printer which is controlled bu the NAS's built in print server providing priinting for all the computers that use the network.

The other device connected (by cable) to the network is a Popcorn Hour A110 Network Media Tank. This connects to the TV by an HDMI lead. It also has a 500MB hard disk which also provides NAS facilities to the network. So far we have not found any files (audio or video) that the Popcorn cannot play. Updates to the Popcorn firmware are released from time to time and simply installed just using the TV display and the Popcorn remote. The only thing that isn't simply available on the Popcorn is the BBC iPlayer, though there is a workaround for that which I haven't bothered with (yet).

So having used this all for a while I can say that all these facilities are very useful. My NAS has software included that allows me to run backups to or from the attached USB drive or (I think) to a PC on the network. The Popcorn makes viewing much more comfortable on a 32" HDTV (and listening to music files with the MP3 infor displayed on screen). 

I would thoroughly recommend all the kit we have. It has been nice to sit in the lounge and watch episodes of 'Norm' when the TV has been so dire.

Misterfish


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

Brilliant, a real life review. Go for it Martin!


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## mahking51 (30 Dec 2009)

Hi Misterfish,
Sounds like pretty much what I am after. Always good to hear that soeone is happy with their setup. Do you have DVD's stored on the system? If so what is the playback quality please? 
Presumably the Buffalo unit under the stairs is cabled to the Netgear hub?
Does cable length become an issue?
I am guessing but Iwould think the cable from my router to the TV area would be about 25m or so allowing for bends and corners etc.
Tom,
Could you please have a look at the specs on the Buffalo products for me and comment?
I agree that I am going to get the NAS sorted first and loaded with my media and thenplump for the Media Unit when researched a bit more.
Does all seem that it will come in under budget which is good news.
Can the cabling be run without connectors (smaller holes) and then the ends put on (how?) afterwards?
Sorry to have so many questions.
Cheers,
Martin


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

Martin, Cable length won't matter much in this situation. With just a single load on the network, you shouldn't get any quality degradation over this distance. However, the homeplugs are inexpensive and may be a neater solution. I will check if there are any comments as to their performance with streaming video.


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

MisterFish, what type of RAID are you using with your Buffalo?

Also, can you give me a link to the iPlayer work around.


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## yo_chuci (30 Dec 2009)

Only just found this topic so sorry if i am repeating or posting what others have posted.

I'm just gonna look into setting up a server (NAS or otherwise) to store all my movies etc on. as atm they are just stored on the pc and i want something more efficient and quieter...

i have the pc wired to a router/hub and to watch it all on tv i have an old shape xbox that i softmodded and then installed Xbox Media Center.
it works brilliantly at streaming my movies which i have ripped to the pc using dvd decrypter (which isn't being developed anymore but can still be downloaded, just google)
i rip them as .avi's and about 800meg to get good enough qual.

now tho (and this is how will go) is to make a small pc that sits under tv and probably install XBMC 9.11 and use that to stream movies etc and also then have the ability to check mail, youtube etc. it could prob (but don't quote me) have a wireless card and stream that way. and as its a pc upgrading hardware to cope with HD etc will be easier.


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

Martin, I think you will be fine with a Buffalo Linkstation Quad. The Terastation is very slightly better but quite a bit more money. The linkstation has everything you need, including RAID5 which is what I think you need to be using for the best type of redundancy.

http://www.buffalotech.com/products/net ... tion-quad/

As I said before, if you need a hand ripping all your media, give me a shout.


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

This has got me thinking about what I need to do - especially as the house is in upheaval - about networking for any future media server. This is a question for any networking gurus. 

Current set-up is broadband router (wireless capable) feeding a switch which then feeds everything else in the house. iPlayer is important to us (which is why I favour the PS3 route rather than Popcorn) and so if I was going to try and get a network cable from the TV room to the internet, does it plug into the router or the switch? I've thought about wireless streaming and also HomePlug but get conflicting reports re suitability for streaming. 

Of course, there is also FreeSat and they are talking about iPlayer for that ...not sure how that one goes...


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

It can go in to either the switch or the router. There may be a tiny bit of packet loss from going through the switch, but I doubt it TBH. We need a real life review of homeplugs. On the face of it they are a very good solution.


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## mahking51 (30 Dec 2009)

Tom,
I think that I have decided on this NAS:
http://www.cclonline.com/product-info.asp?product_id=31600
Will wait for your thumbs up and then order right now!
I think that the Buffalo Link Theatre HD might be a good match
LT-H90LAN (cabled) or WN (wireless)
Thoughts?


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

I think the only way to future proof a system like this is to use a PC. There a plenty of Open Source software solutions out there that are actively being updated and added to. This is the only way you will get everything you require. The big caveat is that you will have to spend time configuring it and you will probably be reconfiguring it relatively often. Wheras with a media player, it just works. But it won't do everything you want it to and is less than future proof. It's not as simple as VHS or DVD, this is an ever changing technology and I'm not sure it will ever settle down to just one solution across the board.


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## wizer (30 Dec 2009)

Martin that unit looks fine, go for it.

However, I read at least five reviews of that media player and all were bad. 'Piece of Junk' was one that stuck in my mind. No, stick with the Asus or Popcorn IMO.


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## mahking51 (30 Dec 2009)

Ordered and on its wayeeee! :lol: 
Better start looking where to drill holes in my house!
Please God they deliver when SWMBO is out!
Cheers,
Martin


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## paininthe (30 Dec 2009)

Just a little late now by the looks, but i'm quite taken by the look and facilities of this

http://www.synology.com/enu/products/features/index.php

It looks to do all I would ever want including giving internet access to films and music to my family. It also has the new standard? DNLA allowing you to stream direct to TV (well some anyway)


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

paininthe":2z9upujg said:


> Just a little late now by the looks, but i'm quite taken by the look and facilities of this
> 
> http://www.synology.com/enu/products/features/index.php
> 
> It looks to do all I would ever want including giving internet access to films and music to my family. It also has the new standard? DNLA allowing you to stream direct to TV (well some anyway)



iPlayer support ?


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## paininthe (30 Dec 2009)

RogerS":2gxun9hj said:


> iPlayer support ?



So it says

http://www.synology.com/enu/products/features/itunes.php


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

I said iPlayer not iTunes. As in BBC iPlayer.


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## kingcod (30 Dec 2009)

Just to comment on a couple of things:

NAS - I'm very happy with my Western Digital MyBook World Edition. It has been a best buy in Computer Shopper for a few months and prices continue to fall.

For media streaming at the TV (and possibly hi fi) end of things there are, as you are finding out, a lot of solutions. Since next month's tech is always better than this months you might play about with something fairly cheap and cheerful to test the water. The Western Digital WD TV Live claims to stream a shed load of media files, can take its feed from USB or a network and is priced at £92 at Kikatek - its another Computer Shopper best buy and I want one! Compared with the endless hassle with my Media PC it looks a good deal.

http://www.kikatek.com/advanced_search_ ... WD+TV+Live


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## misterfish (30 Dec 2009)

Righty ho...

The Netgear wireless hub ADSL is a DG834. This is in the understairs cupboard. Next to that is the Buffalo NAS (Linkstation Live)which is connected to the hub using a short network cable. The NAS has a 500Gb disk. Plugged into the NAS is a 250Gb external USB disk and a Canon printer. There is no RAID with my set up, but files can be automatically backed up.

The Popcorn is also connected directly to the Netgear by cable - we have a network socket by the TV (installed when we had the house refurbished). The Popcorn and Sky box are beneath the TV and each has their own remote. As for image quality from the Popcorn - excellent - dependent on the quality of the file available. HD recordings display in full HD. Any video files display well and are full screen. The 500Gb disk in the Popcorn stores any files you want as it also functions as a NAS. I have ripped DVDs to one or other of the hard disks and they play back well. I haven't done anything with Blu-ray yet as I don't have a Blu-ray player. 

My son has a satellite decoder device attached to his PC and it is possible to stream live HD transmissions over the network to the Popcorn (we used this before we had the Sky HD box) - they display as well as the Sky HD box.

The nice thing about the Popcorn is that I can just select the file and it plays. 

If anybody is interested the full details and capabilities of the devices I have these are the manuals

http://files.syabas.com/popcornhour/dow ... update.pdf

http://www.drosera.f2s.com/nas_manual.pdf

As I mentioned before it would be nice to have an iPlayer interface to directly play the BBC files. It looks as if the (complex) work around that has been developed involves downloading the files to a PC, somehow working around the DRM and then streaming to the Popcorn.

Misterfish


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## paininthe (30 Dec 2009)

RogerS":3h1pccc6 said:


> I said iPlayer not iTunes. As in BBC iPlayer.



It's a storage device, not sure of the requirement for iplayer? What would you want it to do.


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## RogerS (30 Dec 2009)

paininthe":3s29qsy0 said:


> RogerS":3s29qsy0 said:
> 
> 
> > I said iPlayer not iTunes. As in BBC iPlayer.
> ...



Catch up with programmes I've missed.


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## yo_chuci (30 Dec 2009)

RogerS":16fi7a4y said:


> Of course, there is also FreeSat and they are talking about iPlayer for that ...not sure how that one goes...



read in stuff today that the iplayer freesat thing still needs a connection to a router... a physical one atm


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## Gerry (3 Jan 2010)

I just caught up on this thread so sorry for being late replying. I have had three media streamers. A freecom (ok for normal avi) A Popcorn Hour 110 (superb but expensive) then a few months back I came across a new product called and Xteamer. It does everything the Popcorn does with style and is only £100. It is a NAS, plays HD, has two USB hosts, streams directly from my PC or you can add an internal drive etc. Too much to list here but it's definitely the best streamer you can buy.

Forum http://forum.xtreamer.net/index.php
UK supplier http://www.tranquilpc-shop.co.uk/acatal ... ayers.html


Gerry


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## mahking51 (3 Jan 2010)

Gerry,
thanks for that will look at it today.
Found a program called My Movies which integrates with Windows Media Center and allows the scrolling of DVD cover images and info that it collects from the internet, seems to wrk quite well on the few that I have tried.
Waiting for the Buffalo Terastation NAS to arrive and will load a few movies and phots etc and then think about the other end of things.
Cheers,
Martin


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## wizer (3 Jan 2010)

Does that mean you're considering a PC solution?


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## mahking51 (3 Jan 2010)

Hi Tom getting quiye confused here. Just dipped into the Xtreamer forums and it seems that while it appears a great bit of kit it will not allow the use of the album cover art/scroll and play type interface that I get on my desktop machine using Windows Media centre. This seem so easy it would be great to have that on the TV as well.
I get the feeling that I am being very dim here and am probably at cross purposes withe the differnet systema available. Maybe thes media tank things don't have the capabilty I want, may not evenbe possible at all for all I know.
I am finding this a real minefield!  
Cheers,
Martin


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## TrimTheKing (3 Jan 2010)

mahking51":3nsotlaa said:


> I am finding this a real minefield!
> Cheers,
> Martin


It is! Keep plugging away, as Tom said I am looking into someething very similar at the moment and like you every time I think I've cracked it I find something new that I 'might' need and then spend another 3 days reading websites.

I will post on here as soon as I work out which way I'm going and then you can see if it does what you need.

:?


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## mahking51 (3 Jan 2010)

Hi Trim,
Likewise! 8) :lol: 
Martin


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## matt (3 Jan 2010)

FWIW - FreeNAS is, erm, "free". If you've got an old PC lying around then you could turn it in to a NAS and experiment on the cheap. I've not gone down the media server route yet but I have about 750GB of space on my converted to NAS PC with a network cable run to behind the TV, just waiting to be hooked up to a suitable wotsit or other.


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## wizer (3 Jan 2010)

Here's a Video Review of the XStreamer

http://www.channels.com/episodes/show/6 ... e-Xtreamer

Seems ok. It's hard to make a decision between them. I'd like to have a play with all of them to know for sure.


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## SimonB (4 Jan 2010)

First post here, but been lingering for some while in the 'on-topic' forums.

Seems like a lot of good information so far. I currently have an Infrant/Netgear ReadyNAS which offers several media streaming services as well as backup and a photo library tool. If I read right though the NAS solution has been taken care of.

I use one of the older TViX media players which is OK, user interface is better than a lot of the earlier media players, but probably not on a par with some of the newer stuff. I used to have an XBox and loved XBMC, but I killed it trying to do a cooling mod.

We are looking at the whole multi-room AV thing at the moment with the prospect of building a new house. A friend of mine recently pointed me at the Boxee software, which is apparently a spin off from XBMC. It's currently in alpha/beta release and I haven't had a close look at it, but he's a media specialist and he seems very keen on it. From what I can tell they are bringing out a dedicated box later this year, but the software will run on a dedicated PC, whether it works on these new ITX type devices I don't know, but would be surprised if it doesn't.

Anyway, just another option to throw into the mix.

As for HomePlugs, I use the 200MB ones from Solwise. They will happily stream an SD DVD ISO without breakup, but they are susceptible to interference, especially if they aren't given a dedicated power socket, and bandwidth can drop.

The one issue which I am not sure if the OP has the information on is DVD transfer to disk. If you are OK with this part then fine, if not then you need to be at least aware of the copyright issues. There is software out there to copy DVDs but it is of course illegal. The other issue is the quality of the copy. I see this has been touched upon. IMO if you are going to bother of setting up this system you would want to watch DVDs in their original quality, which means ripping them as ISOs or VOBs. As Wizer points out, some stripping is possible and would save space, especially unwanted soundtracks, especially from European DVDs that have multiple languages. A knowledge of the DVD format is useful here, but there are guides on line (www.vcdhelp.com is a good one - I think it has been renamed, but that URL I believe still works).

HTH

Simon

EDIT: I see my URL has been caught in the not-enough-posts-spam-trap but pretty obvious what it is I think, if not am happy to talk about any of the above off line, as the OP has indicated he would be willing to do.


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## wizer (4 Jan 2010)

SimonB":3jf2j0j3 said:


> There is software out there to copy DVDs but it is of course *illegal*.



Is it? I thought it was perfectly legal to back your own media up?


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## SimonB (4 Jan 2010)

wizer":18c0bfrt said:


> SimonB":18c0bfrt said:
> 
> 
> > There is software out there to copy DVDs but it is of course *illegal*.
> ...



Well that's my understanding. The only way to back up a DVD is to break the macrovision encryption (for retail discs). I have been told that studios are much less interested in SD and nowadays turn a blind eye, their interest now is with DB. That's not mean to sound alarmist, the likelihood of lil old us being on their radar seems slim. I mentioned it simply because if the OP was not aware of this I think he at least should be and can then make an informed judgement.


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## wizer (4 Jan 2010)

A Brief google couldn't substantiate that. If it really is illegal, then a lot of people (like Microsoft) are wasting their time making Media Centre(s)


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## SimonB (4 Jan 2010)

Let me re-phrase then - if you break the CSS encryption to make a copy to a hard disk then this could be considered illegal. Studios primary concern is that these copies are then sold. As said a blind eye appears to be turned to personal backups. If the software employed maintains the CSS/DRM intact then presumably this is not an issue - however my point related to making ISO copies rather than loading them into some media management software.

I don't wish to get into an argument with this, I was simply trying to help the OP and ensure they were aware of possible issues.


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## TrimTheKing (4 Jan 2010)

wizer":2izpophb said:


> SimonB":2izpophb said:
> 
> 
> > There is software out there to copy DVDs but it is of course *illegal*.
> ...


Nope, technically it is illegal to make any kind of backup, even of software you have purchased and it is only a backup for your own safety. It is one of those laws that is 'overlooked' for the 'personal backup' use.

Technically VCR's are illegal, but when have you ever heard of anyone being raided for their BetaMax back collection of Blackadder?


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## Gerry (4 Jan 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSaoNTSNn0g

Here is a demo of how the Xtreamer works on screen. Xbox and the like are poor seconds to these. As I said I forked out a fortune for a Popcorn 110 and this is as good if not better.

Gerry


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## RogerS (5 Jan 2010)

For those more inclined towards a Mac based environment then there is a feature looking at media centres in the current issue of macFormat. Includes Wii, PS3, xbox, appleTV, mac mini.


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## SimonB (5 Jan 2010)

This is an interesting development - http://xbmc.org/davilla/2009/12/29/broa ... its-magic/

So an AppleTV with XBMC and one of these could be a very good solution.

I took a look at the Xtreamer video and was particularly underwhelmed. I haven't looked closely at the specs but was disappointed to see what appears to be a very limited GUI. Navigating into 'C' -> 'Partition' in the media menus is antiquated, and harks back to the early clunky Syabas based devices. Unless there is some means to create a media library I don't see how this is a step ahead of XBMC or other newer media players.


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## RogerS (5 Jan 2010)

SimonB":1u26voph said:


> This is an interesting development - http://xbmc.org/davilla/2009/12/29/broa ... its-magic/
> 
> So an AppleTV with XBMC and one of these could be a very good solution.
> 
> I took a look at the Xtreamer video and was particularly underwhelmed. I haven't looked closely at the specs but was disappointed to see what appears to be a very limited GUI. Navigating into 'C' -> 'Partition' in the media menus is antiquated, and harks back to the early clunky Syabas based devices. Unless there is some means to create a media library I don't see how this is a step ahead of XBMC or other newer media players.



That's covered, interestingly enough, in the article together with some other hackjs for Apple TV including one that allows iPlayer (a must-have for me).

Out of curiosity though...can anyone who streams to their TV let us know what the resolution is like and also size/type of screen and viewing distance. Reason for asking is that viewing video fullscreen on the 24" iMac isn't brilliant.


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## SimonB (5 Jan 2010)

Roger, I watch/stream SD DVD material to a 42" plasma and it's like watching it from a DVD player. Lower resolution material as one would expect does not look as good, but a one hour episode of something of around 800mb looks significantly better than some of the low res channels on Sky.

I have some understanding of source resolution and scaling and how that affects the actual display quality but perhaps not enough to compare an AV source (as it were) to a computer based source, I don't know what the difference is. With a flat panel display it should scale the input material to it's native resolution, so that will always remain the same. Where the difference in quality arises from is to some degree dependent on the resolution of the source material. Scaling an SD source (720 x 576) to a panel resolution of say 1024 x 768 is going to look better then a source with half the resolution. There will be other factors that affect apparent visual quality such as de-interlacing and colour balance etc, but IMO scaling, or source resolution, is likely going to be the primary factor.

On the few occasions that I've watched 720p material on the PC it's been very good, as have SD DVDs, so my first thought would be to look at the source resolution of whatever you are watching full screen. The quality of the scaling is also CPU and software dependent. The best domestic off board video processors with dedicated video circuitry cost 000s so the power and quality of whatever is generating the video in the PC is likely to fall somewhat short of that.


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## Paulg (5 Jan 2010)

I have the XStreamer and so far I am very pleased with it.

Dont let the online vide put you off too much. The firmware for the player has been updated quite a bit and the latest version looks nothing like it did when I first got it (only a couple of months ago). They are improving it all the time.

My set up is a Mini ITX (Atom 330) Linux server with 1.5tb data drive serving all the PC's / Macs in the house. Video is streamed over 100mb ethernet to the XStreamer and so far has not missed a beat.

Source videos are my DVD's ripped to disk without any compression. Quality is as good as a DVD player with the advantage that the XStreamer is tiny compared to a DVD player and is silent. I also have all my photos on the server so can show those on the TV via the XStreamer. I will put my MP3's there too at some point as it can play them as well.

I have also downloaded a couple of HD demo videos (only a few minutes long). Again, no problems playing those over the network.

TV is a 42" Plasma and viewing distance is about 8 ft.


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## mahking51 (7 Jan 2010)

Hi All
Just got the Buffalo Linkstation and hooked it up after having a look through the quite comprhensive manual in pdf. A bit daunting this.
First problem was that manual said in the first paragraph that RAID 0 was the shipping default and in the second suggested that RAID 5 was the way to go and that that was the default shipped from the factory!
The software said it was RAID 0 so jumped in at deep end and reset to RAID5 without any problem except the compulsory automatic disk check that kicks in after the configuration finished took 10 HOURS to run!!
Created the share folders that I want, DVD, Photo & Music only to find that they would not mount as they needed to be remapped as Network Drives.
All this was getting very damn close to what I felt comfortable doing with my not very good computer knowledge but so far OK.
Have copied over all my photos and they show up just fine in Windows Media Centre after a bit of faffing about telling it where to look.
Am now goig to copy a couple of DVD's from my hard drive as atrial to see if they run and show up with their covers in Media Centre.
Onward & upward!!  
Thanks to all for kicking in on this thread, all very helpful indeed.
Cheers,
Martin


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

After helping Martin out in this thread, I couldn't resist investing in an Xtreamer. I was impressed by the features and reviews on this unit and I liked the fact it was constantly being updated by it's makers. Features like a built in FTP and Web server make it a good stop gap before I invest in a NAS. The main reason for wanting one of these is not really for movies as we're not big movie watchers. The idea was to take all my daughter's dvds and put them out of reach so she doesn't destroy them. Also we haven't settled on a music solution for the lounge, and this would handle things well enough for our requirements. As an added bonus, it lets you display photo slideshows which solves the nagging problem I get "What's the point in having a camera if we never print the photos" (I'll never be able to explain that properly to Wife and family members :roll

It arrived on Monday and I must say I'm less than impressed. To set it all up, I used the TV in the bedroom which is a Samsung 20" Flatscreen with HDMI inputs. The on screen display of the Xtreamer is diabolical. I think it's probably designed for much larger TVs. It looked like your PC when you set it to the wrong resolution and, unless you were directly level with the centre of the TV, it was hard to read the text. I found the menus slow and not intuitive. Perhaps a flaw with all of these units, is searching for media. I setup a share on the network called 'MEDIA' and moved some content in there for testing. But you had to navigate 5 or 6 screens before you got there. Even then, it wasn't obvious how to select what type of media you wanted to view. I imagine it'd be a nightmare if you had hundred or even thousands of albums or movies. It does have a search feature but it's SO slow. The remote has a directional pad and you use it with an on-screen qwerty key pad. I can touch type like a girly secretary () but with this thing I was like my Dad trying to text :roll: My wife would not have the patience to navigate around this thing, she gets frustrated with Sky+! 

It came with a free wireless dongle and this was the breaker for me, as I wanted to use it via wireless for a couple of months before I could afford some homeplugs. Even tho I was in the room next to the wireless router, it couldn't stream any video without stuttering. I know wireless shouldn't be relied on for streaming media, but my laptop can do it without fault. When I fitted a USB HDD the video did play well and it did appear to play anything I threw at it.

If all that wasn't bad enough... The company I bought it off were advertising it with a free after market silent cooler fitted and it turned up without that and then on the 2nd time I turned it on, it just hung and wouldn't get past the loading screen. When I contacted Tranquil PC about it, they just replied with a blunt email saying 'Send it back for a refund'. I find it infuriating that they've sent me something so utterly useless and I have to pay to return it! Obviously it has to go back, but I can't help thinking I should give it another go. As I said earlier, on paper it's the ideal solution. It was about the cheapest on the market and I really can't stretch my budget for the higher priced boxes.

One option is this

http://aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers/2827_12765.htm







On offer from tomorrow. Worth a punt? It can't be much worse than this one and it's £50 cheaper.

Anyway. This is my rant for the day.


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## RogerS (23 Jan 2010)

Thanks, wizer, it's really helpful to read a review like this so we know what to steer clear of.


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

I think I'm going to take a gamble on the Medion one so I'll review that too. I'll probably end up trying all the budget options before I learn what I did with tools, cheap means cheap.


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## jlawrence (23 Jan 2010)

cheap in this respect generally means not enough horse power to display any kind of high res video imo.
Personally I'd still go with one of the Zotac ION motherboards and build my own system. Yes, it's a bit more expensive. But then at least you know exactly what it should be capable of - and having hdmi out means I don't have to disconnect anything else from the TV in order to plug the thing in.

ADDED:
The aldi one actually talks about hdmi out - might pop in tomorrow and have a nose at that one. for £50 it's worth getting to play with - that's less than even just the ION motherboard nevermind adding a case etc. If necessary butcher the median for the case etc and ditch the rest of it .


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

I'd love to go the PC route. It is without doubt the best way to solve this problem. But to do it right, the way I want it to work, would cost in excess of 1k easily. I'd rather buy some green power tools with that money


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## mahking51 (23 Jan 2010)

Hi Guys,
This is all making pretty dismal reading  
Tom, thanks so much for being the guinea piggy here with the Xtreamer kit, sorry its not working out.
I have not had much time recently to do much with my stuff but I do find that if I reboot my system the Buffalo drive does not show up in My Computer as online until I double click the crossed out icon when it all works fine???? Will chime back in later when I have more to report.
SimonB I would be really interested to know the best way to get one of my DVD to the NAS for the best possible playback, if all this works out eventually and I need more space I'll just get another/bigger Buffalo unit.
Cheers,
Martin


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

Martin, probably the best paid software is AnyDVD. Tho you can do it without spending money with free apps. I'm not up on what's current, but it tends to be a lengthier, more complicated process.


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## jlawrence (23 Jan 2010)

for dvd's - unless they're protected - then i just copy the vob files onto the nas and play them directly within xbmc. if protected then you need to strip off the protection before playing them.


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## SimonB (23 Jan 2010)

Hi Martin, likewise I'm not up to date with current tools/software. There is one particular free app that I use but it is relatively old and I have had issues with several DVDs.

I'm new here and I'm not familiar with forum policy on discussions of this type of thing so I don't want to say too much. I will gladly pass on my thoughts offline if you want to PM me your email address.


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

SimonB":9byszmvw said:


> I'm new here and I'm not familiar with forum policy on discussions of this type of thing so I don't want to say too much. I will gladly pass on my thoughts offline if you want to PM me your email address.



probably best


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## mahking51 (23 Jan 2010)

JL,
xmbc???  
Any chance of an abc for idiots on how to get a DVD onto the NAS?
Cheers,
Martin


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## mahking51 (23 Jan 2010)

Tom,
I have a paid copy of AnyDVD but have not used it yet.
Martin


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## wizer (23 Jan 2010)

very easy to use Martin.


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## misterfish (24 Jan 2010)

wizer":kiryt6he said:


> On offer from tomorrow. Worth a punt? It can't be much worse than this one and it's £50 cheaper.



This may be of interest as it gives more technical info about the offering.

http://www.iboum.com/pr/med85015.php

Misterfish


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## wizer (24 Jan 2010)

Well I went along to Aldi this morning to invest in one of these units. When we got there I couldn't find them anywhere. Just as I was about to leave I decided there's no harm in asking. Low and behold the cashier was literally sitting on a box of them! Impulse got the better of me and I walked out with two of them! One for upstairs and one for down 

Initial reactions are positive. It's very small, about 1/4 of the size of my Sky box, but feels like a solid bit of kit. I don't have network near to any of my TVs so am using a USB HDD for now. In time I will buy some homeplugs to solve that issue. I loaded it up with a selection of music, films and recorded tv shows. The menu screens are _much_ nicer than the Xtreamer. Navigating through the menus is faster than the Xtreamer but browsing the HDD itself is still a bit slow. I'll have to test the network to see if that's quicker. The OSD design is similar to the Xtreamer, in that you browse the file system as opposed to genre, etc. In movie mode it displays a 5 second preview of the movie, although it's the first 5 seconds, so a bit useless tbh. It doesn't play ISO files, which is a shame. But it did play AVI's and raw ripped dvds. The quality of the video playback look pretty good to me, but I''m no video buff. It's smooth with no quality loss to my eyes. 
It has a card reader on the front. I put my 4gb SD card from my D50 and it displayed my photos fine. The slideshow has some optional wipe effects and also the 'Ken Burns' effect, which is nice. You can also play music while looking at photos. The manual is pretty good, obviously translated, but still well written and useful.

Overall I'm quite impressed. It has less features than the Xtreamer but is a more polished product. They've taken more time getting it right. For £60 I think it's an absolute bargain. If you want one of these, I suggest you hurry up as they tend not to hang around in these types of shops.

(no connection to Aldi) :roll:


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## wizer (26 Jan 2010)

seems like no one was interested, but I did a video of the menu screens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHihS9CJcwI

If you want a budget option and you're not too fussed about absolute high end quality, then this is a good option. I'm perfectly happy with it (and it's rare for me to say something like that).

Be quick, they sell out fast in these types of shops.


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## TrimTheKing (26 Jan 2010)

Looks good, will send SWMBO off to pick one up. For that price it's worth a punt for the bedroom like you say.

Cheers Tom


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## jlawrence (26 Jan 2010)

I went in this morning to pick one up - they still have them in around here. Typically though I'd forgotten to actually take my wallet with me .


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## TrimTheKing (26 Jan 2010)

Missus picked one up for me this afternoon. Thought it was a joke when I took it out of the box when I got home from work 

It's not much bigger than a large matchbox  Not tested it yet, but I am working on some video encoding stuff in work at the moment so am going to take it in with me tomorrow to have a play around and see how it compares to commercial media streamers and IPTV boxes...and if it's dung I'll give it me mam!


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## wizer (26 Jan 2010)

Very interested to know what you think of it Mark. I ordered some homeplugs tonight, so I can test the network capability of it soon.


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