# Building regs & door closers (& insurance!)



## stix (14 Sep 2007)

I posted a while back about have a loft conversion done, well finally it's finished!  

As my house is now three storey, building regs require all doors on the escape route to have self closers on in case of a fire. The builders have fitted white plastic coated arm-type door closers that look absolutely awful and are driving me mad - I have door knobs fitted and I can't even carry my beer glass and the can through to my lounge at the same time without putting one of them down first!

Does anyone know where I would stand with my insurance company if I were to remove the door closers and there was a fire in the house?

I think I know the answer really but I'm reluctant to ask the insurance company as I think they will just tell me I need them on and make a note that I have questioned their necessity, but in reality I can't function properly with them on - our poor dog has been squashed in the door twice when we haven't realised he'd tried to follow us out of the room , my wife goes for a pee in the night and wakes me up when the door slams :x , I'm up first and the door slams when I leave the room :twisted: :lol: 

I will replace the door closers with Perko concealed closers if I need to but I think we'll just end up wedging the doors open - will this also cause problems with my insurance?

Cheers
Steve


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## Dibs-h (14 Sep 2007)

Steve

I believe that the current version of BR doesn't require them to be fitted. IIRC - definetly remember reading that the casue for the change was that they accepted that most people remove them and that for most Loft Conversions - you have to fit mains powered smoke alarms, etc.

Can try and dig out the info if you want?

Dibs


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## Paul Chapman (14 Sep 2007)

We had a loft conversion in our last house and had the same problems with door closers. They make life impossible. The other problem is that, as all the doors in the house are closed, you find that in the winter the warm air from central heating is not circulating properly and in the summer (remember them?) cool air doesn't circulate properly. We simply took ours off - as did everyone else I know who had them. Doing this may well invalidate your insurance however.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## stix (14 Sep 2007)

Thanks for the relies guys.

Paul, you have a very good point regarding air circulation. Having not had any warm weather it is not something I had so far realised.

Dibs, if you could dig out that info on the latest BR that would be very much appreciated.


Cheers
Steve


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## Dibs-h (14 Sep 2007)

BR info - Probably be after the weekend if that's ok?

Dibs


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## stix (14 Sep 2007)

Thanks Dibs, after the weekend is fine for BR info?

Cheers
Steve


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## lurker (14 Sep 2007)

Have you looked on the website posted under Planning permission information?

Might be there.


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## Scrit (14 Sep 2007)

The other joy of door closers is that if fitted they will contravene the Disabilities Access Act because all of them are too powerful for a seated person in a wheelchair to open unaided. Maybe not applicable in domestic properties but some indication of the idiocy of some of the current statutes

Scrit


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## Shadowfax (14 Sep 2007)

Steve 
Thgere are two ways to look at this.
If your conversion was carried out under the latest Approved Document then you would not need door closers except on the door to an attached garage.
If it was done under the old version of the Approved Document the rules would not be retrospective so if you take the closers off there might be an insurance issue if you had a fire.
It all depends on when you put your Building Regs application in. Before or after 1st April this year?

Secondly: This is not really an insurance issue it is a life safety issue. If you cannot get out of your house from the topmost level, in case of fire, without the protection of the closed doors you will be putting yourself and your family in danger if you remove the closers. Your call, I guess.


The real point that struck me was the fact that your builder has fitted your doors with "door slammers". What you describe are known as Gibraltar closers and they are, in my opinion, fit for nothing but the bin.
I would ban them if I could!

If you want your doors to be self-closing without the hassle of being shoved in the back as you go through, there are far better devices on the market that will work the way you want them to. At a price possibly, but see my second point above.

I don't suppose I have helped much but I had to say something.

Best wishes.

SF


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## stix (14 Sep 2007)

My planning application was 21/03/07 so I just fall inside the old regulations :x 

I've had a look through the site listed in the Planning permission information post and found section 0.11 of this document to be of interest. Namely the paragraph that says: 
_'Householders should also be made aware that unauthorised material alterations may leave them liable to prosecution'_ :shock: 

I'm asuming that that would be more relative to the mains smoke alarms we have, but with HIPS now an issue for me when I come to sell (I assume, as my house is now 3-bed?) door closers would probably be picked up.

Steve


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## markymark12 (14 Sep 2007)

Hi
The current regulations now call for fire doors to be fitted to all habitable rooms, instead of the closures, the local Bco told me it was introduced as the fire brigade figured they were of more use than removed perkos or doors being wedged open. I have justed completed a conversion and had the option as it was granted prior to the change in April. So i would say if you wish to comply then replace the doors and inform the local authority.
It can work out expensive though.


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## stix (14 Sep 2007)

These look like a good alternative but I bet they're expensive!

They allow the door to function normally until there is an electronic signal from one of the mains smoke alarms, at which point they become a door closer.

Oh, they only seem to be available in plastic coated coloured finishes! No colour waxed pine version yet  


Steve


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