# I blame YouTube, how many more Americanisms are we going to have to suffer ?



## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

Vise instead of Vice. Doesn’t even sound right.
Clamp for Cramp that one is almost ubiquitous now, in case you didn’t know a clamp is that bit of wood on the end of a breadboard, or something that fastens onto a tube. I think in this case it was just easier for people like Axminster to copy the American way. 
Lumber instead of Timber. I think I’m right in saying that lumber in the UK is used to refer to trees before they are cut up. 
Jointer for Planer
Tote for Handle.
Is it just me? Am I getting too old?


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## LJM (19 Apr 2021)

I’m with you all the way!


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## AJB Temple (19 Apr 2021)

The trouble with this argument is it does not withstand scrutiny. People who study the English language generally assert that US English has stayed much truer to the language spoken and written by the original settlers, than British English. Hence it is the language of these islands that has moved on. Language evolves and words become appropriated to have different meanings. Gay is a good example. Decimate (reduce by a tenth) is another as most people think it means largely destroy. Few people now use disinterested correctly (they wrongly think it is similar to uninterested).

"Timber" dates from the 12th C and meant growing trees or the wood derived from them. Lumber dates from circa 14th C and meant the wood or dressed logs cut from trees. Both meanings pre-date the European discovery of America. Meanings change through ignorance, or simple use and misuse changes them.


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## NickDReed (19 Apr 2021)

This is the problem with people today. Always looking to be offended by something!


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

That’s very true Adrian but then again we have never called a vice a vise etc.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

NickDReed said:


> This is the problem with people today. Always looking to be offended by something!


Well I never thought I would be thought of as a snowflake lol


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## LJM (19 Apr 2021)

I simply dont like the Americanisation of the world. I’ll take “snowflake” if i have to


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## KingAether (19 Apr 2021)

planer thicknesser jointer is the one that gets to me as it made it a pain in the ... finding the right information online at first.
I would assume a jointer would be something that actually joins the boards, not preps them by plaining the surface and a plainer something that plains, not takes to thickness; it just doesn't make sense to me that its different at all


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

I don’t know how to say this, I may be moving there permanently soon ha ha, so I had probably just better get used to it hadn’t I !
It’s a funny thing, it doesn’t annoy me at all when I’m there.


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## NickDReed (19 Apr 2021)

LJM said:


> I simply dont like the Americanisation of the world. I’ll take “snowflake” if i have to


Americanizations*


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## Essex Barn Workshop (19 Apr 2021)

I'm like my dad on this subject, a real _french fry_ off the old _distance between two intersections in a city designed on a grid template_.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

Essex Barn Workshop said:


> I'm like my dad on this subject, a real _french fry_ off the old _distance between two intersections in a city designed on a grid template_.


 Could you explain that one for us please? They don’t do roundabouts either


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## Essex Barn Workshop (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Could you explain that one for us please? They don’t do roundabouts either


a chip (french fry) off the old block (distance etc)


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

"Shop" is a place where you buy things!


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

JohnPW said:


> "Shop" is a place where you buy things!


 I knew there was another one I couldn’t remember, that drives me nuts


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

"Drill press" just sounds wrong, it's not a press!


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## LJM (19 Apr 2021)

NickDReed said:


> Americanizations*


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## selectortone (19 Apr 2021)

I recently emailed Cinch, the car buying company, about the ad they are running on TV.

I asked them, if it wasn't too much trouble, to tell that bearded bloke who does their adverts that in America they say 'Anyways' while here in the UK we say 'Anyway'. I got a very nice reply from Alannah from their Customer Service Team saying _"Thank you very much for your email and for reaching out to cinch. I will pass on your feedback to the marketing team."_

Well, it gave my daughter a laugh


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## LJM (19 Apr 2021)

selectortone said:


> I emailed Cinch, the car buying company, about their current ad they are running on TV.
> 
> I asked them, if it wasn't too much trouble, to tell that bearded bloke who does their adverts that in America they say 'Anyways' while here in the UK we say 'Anyway'. I got a very nice reply from Alannah from their Customer Service Team saying _"Thank you very much for your email and for reaching out to cinch. I will pass on your feedback to the marketing team."_
> 
> Well, it gave my daughter a laugh



We should all take this as a shining example; be more Selectortone!


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## HappyHacker (19 Apr 2021)

My hate is noting to do with woodworking. Heist is becoming standard instead of robbery, even on the BBC.


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## kinverkid (19 Apr 2021)

We don't have morgues either. We have mortuaries. That is starting to wind me up too. Plus, I'm fine, not good or okay. It's a burr not a burl.


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## Inspector (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> They don’t do roundabouts either



Just looked. In 2017 they had over 7,000. They are here in Canada as well. So this is a reverse of Americanisms. We are being Britishized....again.

Pete


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## Inspector (19 Apr 2021)

kinverkid said:


> ...... I'm fine, not good or okay.......



When asked I answer with "Adequate." They look puzzled. "If I'da won the lottery adequate." Get it? Adequate sounds like I'd a quit.    

Pete


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## doctor Bob (19 Apr 2021)

I don't know whether it's american, but I have a lot of anxiety about being called "Bro".


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Vise instead of Vice. Doesn’t even sound right.
> Clamp for Cramp that one is almost ubiquitous now, in case you didn’t know a clamp is that bit of wood on the end of a breadboard, or something that fastens onto a tube. I think in this case it was just easier for people like Axminster to copy the American way.
> Lumber instead of Timber. I think I’m right in saying that lumber in the UK is used to refer to trees before they are cut up.
> Jointer for Planer
> ...



The tote thing is abhorrent. Tote is a bag, or toot (said like "foot") in local german where I grew up. Handles are on planes and saws. I committed this sin early on, but hated the sound - would you like a purse with your saw? Why do you want a tote - are you going to put the handle in it and carry it around on your shoulder?

Timber is large bits here, like framing a house. Or standing wood. If lumber were used for trees, we'd call it standing lumber or lumber on the stump, but a "timber stand" is far more common. "timber walking" is the process of estimating how much is in a stand. 

As for cramps, i don't know why you want to have PMS and woodworking confused. 

You've been dealing with a lot of cramps today? Here's to an improved mood later!

Vise is the physical object here. Vice is a bad quasi cable channel or an addiction.


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I don't know whether it's american, but I have a lot of anxiety about being called "Bro".



Not a fan here, either. Anyone who uses bro also tends to rely on bro science rather than science. It should end at college.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

Inspector said:


> Just looked. In 2017 they had over 7,000. They are here in Canada as well. So this is a reverse of Americanisms. We are being Britishized....again.
> 
> Pete


 Sorry for inflicting those pesky things on you Pete, but they have to be better than driving through a town and stopping every 40 yards at a stop sign and then starting off again the waste in fuel must be colossal. 
I don’t say adequate I said brilliant or wonderful – annoys the hell out of people ha ha


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

By the way, I wasn't into woodworking at all until I met an englishman who left england before PC became popular. He is one of the foulest talking folks I've ever met, and I get a charge out of his lines about various things. 

Linisher. Post Drill. (is there a pre-drill? what about one that's just in the present. or is this something you practice repetitively in basketball, or does it put a hole in mail? Or perhaps certain cereal boxes, but not kelloggs. 

He does say to me "Plane-uh...you r_____d. How can someone as intelligent as you supposedly are be such a moron!! are you still working only with hand tools? I taught you better than that you f____ luddite!"


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> The tote thing is abhorrent. Tote is a bag, or toot (said like "foot") in local german where I grew up. Handles are on planes and saws. I committed this sin early on, but hated the sound - would you like a purse with your saw? Why do you want a tote - are you going to put the handle in it and carry it around on your shoulder?
> 
> Timber is large bits here, like framing a house. Or standing wood. If lumber were used for trees, we'd call it standing lumber or lumber on the stump, but a "timber stand" is far more common. "timber walking" is the process of estimating how much is in a stand.
> 
> ...


I’ve never heard people use the word timber in America I don’t think, it’s always lumber particularly as in lumberyard


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> By the way, I wasn't into woodworking at all until I met an englishman who left england before PC became popular. He is one of the foulest talking folks I've ever met, and I get a charge out of his lines about various things.
> 
> Linisher. Post Drill. (is there a pre-drill? what about one that's just in the present. or is this something you practice repetitively in basketball, or does it put a hole in mail? Or perhaps certain cereal boxes, but not kelloggs.
> 
> He does say to me "Plane-uh...you r_____d. How can someone as intelligent as you supposedly are be such a moron!! are you still working only with hand tools? I taught you better than that you f____ luddite!"


 I suppose it’s a post drill (not that I have ever heard of such a thing) as it was mounted on a post? A bit like post mill which is a windmill on a post that you spin around to face the wind.


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## NickDReed (19 Apr 2021)

Inspector said:


> We are being Britishized....again.



It was merely a tactical retreat guv'


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

US purse = UK handbag, I think.

UK purse is a wallet for women, for carry banknotes and bank cards, loose change etc, usually a bit bigger than a man's wallet.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

NickDReed said:


> It was merely a tactical retreat guv'


 Just realised that Pete sneeked a zed in there, ( note, not a zee)


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I’ve never heard people use the word timber in America I don’t think, it’s always lumber particularly as in lumberyard



Timber framing assumes large lumber (like cants and beams). You won't find that stuff at a lumber yard - it generally comes directly from the mill. But if you use the world framing around someone, or timber framing, it will mean two different things. The former is assumed to occur with dimensional lumber. The latter with cants, beams, etc. 

Timber generally refers to things larger (including logs, though most people call logs that are uncut "logs" - timber refers to standing trees). 









Timber Frame Designs & Floor Plans | Timberbuilt


Award-winning timber frame design layouts and floor plans, which use structural insulated panels (SIPs) and load bearing timbers for energy efficiency.




www.timberbuilt.com


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Apr 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I don't know whether it's american, but I have a lot of anxiety about being called "Bro".


I'm sure that's not the worst ...


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I suppose it’s a post drill (not that I have ever heard of such a thing) as it was mounted on a post? A bit like post mill which is a windmill on a post that you spin around to face the wind.



I would imagine that the early "post" drills were attached to things like a timber frame. 

See what I did there!!

The older drills here were not large freestanding units, but rather something assumed to be attached to a standing beam, etc. Not sure about the metalwork side. 

Pillar drill is one I've never heard used here, either - but google will turn it into items to buy if searched in the US. Post drill gives us the older post drill type in the US - not sure what it returns if you enter it from the UK.


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Just realised that Pete sneeked a zed in there, ( note, not a zee)



very canadian, which is a third type of English, but they do like the queen, so they get a pass?


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## Spectric (19 Apr 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I don't know whether it's american, but I have a lot of anxiety about being called "Bro".


I think that has come from the american drug gangs and now some british youngsters think it is fashionable to use. I say leave the language alone and stop messing with it.


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

"To" and "through".

UK, 1 to 10, Mon to Fri.
US, 1 through 10, Mon through Fri.

US "through" sounds weird, how does Monday go through Friday? Does Friday have a hole and Monday goes through it?

Although this usage is not used in the UK, yet.


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

Driving licence.
Driver's license.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

I was going to have a go about alumin- um. But after it was first invented by the Danes the process for smelting was first patented by an American so I suppose it’s fair doos, and they can call it what they want. 
But in actual fact it was Sir Humphrey Davey who confused everything which led the Americans to call it that.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Apr 2021)

I suppose to an American he must have had the odum of discovering sodum.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> I would imagine that the early "post" drills were attached to things like a timber frame.
> 
> See what I did there!!
> 
> ...


 I suppose I should have guessed, entering post drill here in the UK comes up with a great big drill for drilling post holes i.e. holes for fence posts


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## JohnPW (19 Apr 2021)

Increasingly used in the UK:
"protest" not followed by "against", which actually changes its meaning to the opposite, as in: 
"to protest your innocence",
"to protest against your innocence".


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

JohnPW said:


> Increasingly used in the UK:
> "protest" not followed by "against", which actually changes its meaning to the opposite, as in:
> "to protest your innocence",
> "to protest against your innocence".



profess would be used instead of protest in the next to last example - at least in the US. 

The English language didn't originate here, but we have fixed a lot of the errors in it, so far!


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Apr 2021)

This a silly discussion from the get go.


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## gregmcateer (19 Apr 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> This a silly discussion from the get go.



Is it a 'discussion', though, Phil? It is written, (or more accurately, keyed in), not an oral process - oh dear, can and worms


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## Wildman (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Could you explain that one for us please? They don’t do roundabouts either


oh they do do traffic circles but not many of them


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## Wildman (19 Apr 2021)

Inspector said:


> Just looked. In 2017 they had over 7,000. They are here in Canada as well. So this is a reverse of Americanisms. We are being Britishized....again.
> 
> Pete


gerraway you started out British, ha ah


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## Wildman (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I was going to have a go about alumin- um. But after it was first invented by the Danes the process for smelting was first patented by an American so I suppose it’s fair doos, and they can call it what they want.
> But in actual fact it was Sir Humphrey Davey who confused everything which led the Americans to call it that.


yes it was the Brits who changed the original American spelling on that one.


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Wildman said:


> oh they do do traffic circles but not many of them



Three in a row where I grew up. Surprised not to see them as much after moving away and I grew up in a tourist town (Gettysburg, as in Civil War battle). summer traffic was high (tiny town, about 1.7 million visitors a year back then - not sure about now) and one-late roundabout with yields for all coming in, whereas the prior two had right of way through for the main route. 

Kept them guessing!

As a youngster, it became popular to run to one end of town and back through the center and around the "Square" (which confused me as a kid because it was a circle). After a while, if you were spotted going through the square 3 times in an hour, you received a non-safety fine (it didn't go on your record, but it cost you money). This was in the 1980s and 1990s when muscle cars sort of had a temporary revival among younger fellows - they're more expensive now and an old man's game.


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Wildman said:


> yes it was the Brits who changed the original American spelling on that one.



We figured that you added the extra syllable either due to an impediment or just to be sassy. English men with piles of manners (selectively used, other times not) are thought of as sassy here.


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## scooby (19 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> Timber framing assumes large lumber (like cants and beams).



I've been called one of those a few times.


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## Doug B (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Is it just me? Am I getting too old?



apparently not  More than likely


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## D_W (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Is it just me? Am I getting too old?



By the way, no, and of course. All of the things that never change that changed for your generation from the generation before....

...they're going to continue to change.


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## scooby (19 Apr 2021)

I wouldn't say the cramp vs clamp thing is down to American influence, at least in my experience.

I was taught they are cramps, no arguing. Okay, fair enough.

Not sure its a generation thing either. I work with people older than me, and all the non wood related trades call them clamps. They don't strike me as YouTube watchers.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

scooby said:


> I wouldn't say the cramp vs clamp thing is down to American influence, at least in my experience.
> 
> I was taught they are cramps, no arguing. Okay, fair enough.
> 
> Not sure its a generation thing either. I work with people older than me, and all the non wood related trades call them clamps. They don't strike me as YouTube watchers.


 That’s interesting, I wonder if it can be pinned down as to when it started to be used certainly all the books I had when I was of school age for woodwork had it as a cramp, I’m 65 by the way.ian


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## Jake (19 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Vise instead of Vice. Doesn’t even sound right.
> Clamp for Cramp that one is almost ubiquitous now, in case you didn’t know a clamp is that bit of wood on the end of a breadboard, or something that fastens onto a tube. I think in this case it was just easier for people like Axminster to copy the American way.
> Lumber instead of Timber. I think I’m right in saying that lumber in the UK is used to refer to trees before they are cut up.
> Jointer for Planer
> ...



I find these things real annoying.


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## Jake (19 Apr 2021)

Inspector said:


> Just looked. In 2017 they had over 7,000. They are here in Canada as well. So this is a reverse of Americanisms. We are being Britishized....again.
> 
> Pete



So you have around the same amount as one town here (Milton Keynes).


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## Ozi (19 Apr 2021)

As an American once proposed "A plan for improving the English language"

For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet.

The only kase in which "c" would be retained would be the "ch" formation, which will be dealt with later.

Year 2 might reform "w" spelling, so that "which" and "one" would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish "y" replasing it with "i" and iear 4 might fiks the "g/j" anomali wonse and for all.

Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants.

Bai iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez "c", "y" and "x" -- bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez -- tu riplais "ch", "sh", and "th" rispektivli.

Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.


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## Cabinetman (19 Apr 2021)

Ozi said:


> As an American once proposed "A plan for improving the English language"
> 
> For example, in Year 1 that useless letter "c" would be dropped to be replased either by "k" or "s", and likewise "x" would no longer be part of the alphabet.
> 
> ...


 That must’ve taken you ages Ozi, from listening to some Americans when they are speaking really fast I think they are at about year 10 at the moment lol.


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## Inspector (19 Apr 2021)

Jake said:


> So you have around the same amount as one town here (Milton Keynes).



Well actually those stats are for the US only. We have about 400 so we are way behind but just as well since it takes a while for people new to them to figure it out. Slow learners and all that. Besides during whiteout snow storms there is the risk of coming upon them too fast and running up the middle. Snow plow drivers prefer straight roads too as do the 30m or 40m long B trains (semi pulling two trailers) don't like them either

Pete


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## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Jake said:


> I find these things real annoying.



are they giving you cramps? or clamps? preecrampsia?


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## Jake (20 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> are they giving you cramps? or clamps? preecrampsia?



Real bad clamps


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## Jake (20 Apr 2021)

Inspector said:


> Well actually those stats are for the US only. We have about 400 so we are way behind but just as well since it takes a while for people new to them to figure it out. Slow learners and all that. Besides during whiteout snow storms there is the risk of coming upon them too fast and running up the middle. Snow plow drivers prefer straight roads too as do the 30m or 40m long B trains (semi pulling two trailers) don't like them either
> 
> Pete



OK I was exaggeratedly joking re the 7,000 but Milton Keynes does apparently have 930, so actually does win. On the other hand, it has far fewer moose.


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## Inspector (20 Apr 2021)

Jake said:


> OK I was exaggeratedly joking re the 7,000 but Milton Keynes does apparently have 930, so actually does win. On the other hand, it has far fewer moose.



I know you were kidding as was I.  Since Saskatchewan is almost 2 1/2 times the area of Great Britain and we only have 1.2 million people there isn't a huge need for an efficient traffic system. More paved road would be a treat though.

Now back to our silly treatise on our language differences. 

Pete


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## Thingybob (20 Apr 2021)

My two pet hates are "sodering iron" and "sorry my bad "


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## niemeyjt (20 Apr 2021)

I was discussing making a base for a shed on a US forum - somehow when I mentioned hard core I got some strange replies. (it's rubble over there)


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> We figured that you added the extra syllable either due to an impediment or just to be sassy. English men with piles of manners (selectively used, other times not) are thought of as sassy here.


I have no idea what sassy means.


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

Thingybob said:


> My two pet hates are "sodering iron" and "sorry my bad "


I wonder if they have platoons of sodiers? Or if they've ever been sod down the line?


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## Doug B (20 Apr 2021)

scooby said:


> I wouldn't say the cramp vs clamp thing is down to American influence, at least in my experience.
> 
> I was taught they are cramps, no arguing. Okay, fair enough.
> 
> Not sure its a generation thing either. I work with people older than me, and all the non wood related trades call them clamps. They don't strike me as YouTube watchers.


Thinking about that my 70 year old engineering mate refers to them as clamps & I doubt he’s seen a You Tube woodworking video in his life.


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## John Brown (20 Apr 2021)

The ise ize thing irritates me. The z ending was the preferred British spelling 40 years ago, but people insist that it's American. It isn't.

People also complain about bathroom. Why? It's just another euphemism. Like lavatory or toilet. I'm not sure that we have a polite but direct word for the crapper.
The things that do niggle me- mixing up bring and take, and "off of".

Having an American wife, I'm fairly used to the small differences nowadays.


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## danst96 (20 Apr 2021)

Im probably a serial offender. As someone who was born in South Africa and for the last 3 years has travelled extensively around Europe and to the US for business (pre-covid was in EU roughly 2 days on average) my language has become "Americanized" in my spelling and way I talk due to communicating with people who are more aware of American English than British English. 

So in advance, sorry. But not really sorry.


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## Doug71 (20 Apr 2021)

I always think of a cramp as a sash cramp type thing that I would use to pull together something like a door while the glue sets.

I think of a clamp as something you use to clamp the thing you are working on to the bench so it doesn't move around.

Regarding Americanisms I would say I'm watching series 6 of Line of Duty but apparently it's season 6.


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## mrpercysnodgrass (20 Apr 2021)

There was a guy on the radio yesterday from the English spelling society talking about a campaign to simplify the English language. He made a lot of sense.
Below is from their website.
*English spelling is broken. Let's fix it!*
*English spelling is broken ...*
English spelling is broken. Examples like _comb_, _bomb_ and _tomb_, or _height_ and _weight_, abound. And no-one seems to know whether the down pipe from a gutter is a _rone_, a _rhone_, a _roan_ or something else.
English spelling has been chopped and changed by countless scribes, printers, invaders and others since the Roman alphabet was first used to write Old English during the seventh century, and it does not match the way we speak today. The English Spelling Society exists to repair our broken spelling.
In this website you can discover the past, present and future of English Spelling:


> • Discover the amazing history of English spelling — how it came to be the way it is, and what happened to previous attempts to put it right.
> • Find out just how crazy English spelling is today — and how much that costs in economic and social terms.
> • See what The English Spelling Society is planning to do — and how you can help.


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## S&T (20 Apr 2021)

It's not a burl, it's a burr.


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## AJB Temple (20 Apr 2021)

It's an interesting subject. People often seem to get a bee in their bonnet about spelling, perhaps losing sight of the purpose, which is I suppose a mixture of communication and record. 

When I was at school, it was necessary to learn latin, as it was required for university entrance. I'm not a good linguist at all, but I learnt French through spending a lot of time there over the years. I spent 16 years In a relationship with a multilingual Dutch girl, so I learnt Dutch, though some dialects I struggle with. The last 16 years have been with a German woman so I learnt German. She is fluent in Italian and has built a bit on my schoolboy Latin. I also worked in the US for a while so to be frank I am throughly mixed up about language construction and use! There is little point being precious about any language as it seemingly evolves whatever we do. It's best simply to embrace it. Innit. 

PS: It does bug me when people confuse learn and teach though. When someone says "I'll learn it to yer" it grates. Lend and borrow misuse bugs me a bit as well.


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## John Brown (20 Apr 2021)

AJB Temple said:


> It's an interesting subject. People often seem to get a bee in their bonnet about spelling, perhaps losing sight of the purpose, which is I suppose a mixture of communication and record.
> 
> When I was at school, it was necessary to learn latin, as it was required for university entrance. I'm not a good linguist at all, but I learnt French through spending a lot of time there over the years. I spent 16 years In a relationship with a multilingual Dutch girl, so I learnt Dutch, though some dialects I struggle with. The last 16 years have been with a German woman so I learnt German. She is fluent in Italian and has built a bit on my schoolboy Latin. I also worked in the US for a while so to be frank I am throughly mixed up about language construction and use! There is little point being precious about any language as it seemingly evolves whatever we do. It's best simply to embrace it. Innit.
> 
> PS: It does bug me when people confuse learn and teach though. When someone says "I'll learn it to yer" it grates. Lend and borrow misuse bugs me a bit as well.


Does anyone still say "I'll learn it to yer" in real life? 
And shouldn't that be "bee in my hood"?

Americans think it's weird how we all say f instead of th. Which of course we don't. And still believe that all British people talk like Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins.

One of my American brothers in law tells everyone that British people say " Russell Hobbs" instead of kettle. I suspect that one of his British work colleagues told him that as a joke.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

no-one seems to know whether the down pipe from a gutter is a _rone_, a _rhone_, a _roan_ or something else ...

Something else, I would imagine as I've never heard one called anything other than a downpipe. By the way, gutters here are launders - gutters are on the ground.

Learn/teach? One of the Cornish ones is using lend instead of borrow - as in "can I lend your ladder, I got get the tobs out me launders?"


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## kinverkid (20 Apr 2021)

AJB Temple said:


> PS: It does bug me when people confuse learn and teach though. When someone says "I'll learn it to yer" it grates. Lend and borrow misuse bugs me a bit as well.


I was very impressed with my then twelve year old Ibithencan nephew came to stay with us with his mom and dad. One day my English sister-in-law jokingly said in her Brummie accent that she's been 'learning him English'. He said 'don't you mean you've been teaching me English'.


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## starlingwood (20 Apr 2021)

I don't like the Americanisms either, never had. Not sure why maybe a streak of nationalism dislike of bastardisation or something. My little ones everyone and again come out with garbage truck and couch every now again and I have to correct them.


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

The Mother Tongue - Wikipedia is brilliant (as is anything by Bryson) as are books by Steven Pinker and David Crystal.


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## Cabinetman (20 Apr 2021)

kinverkid said:


> I was very impressed with my then twelve year old Ibithencan nephew came to stay with us with his mom and dad. One day my English sister-in-law jokingly said in her Brummie accent that she's been 'learning him English'. He said 'don't you mean you've been teaching me English'.


Thank you I always like to learn new words and that’s the first time I’ve ever come across Ibithencan, And well done nephew!


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## Woody2Shoes (20 Apr 2021)

It would be easy (for a foreigner) to imagine "American" as some kind of homogenous language. I think that - in spite of TV/internet - there is still some rich variation in accent and idiom across the US (just as there is across the UK) - I found this Youtube vid (no irony) absolutely fascinating: 
Also: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfZFeqnCUQDo5IvedomAsghqDAZwfHgZr


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## Cabinetman (20 Apr 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> The Mother Tongue - Wikipedia is brilliant (as is anything by Bryson) as are books by Steven Pinker and David Crystal.


 I thought I had read every single one of Brysons books but that one passed me by, I sometimes think that he is more English than a lot of us natives.


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## Woody2Shoes (20 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> very canadian, which is a third type of English, but they do like the queen, so they get a pass?


Yay, don't forget British Columbia...


----------



## George_N (20 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Vise instead of Vice. Doesn’t even sound right.
> Clamp for Cramp that one is almost ubiquitous now, in case you didn’t know a clamp is that bit of wood on the end of a breadboard, or something that fastens onto a tube. I think in this case it was just easier for people like Axminster to copy the American way.
> Lumber instead of Timber. I think I’m right in saying that lumber in the UK is used to refer to trees before they are cut up.
> Jointer for Planer
> ...


It’s not just U.K. vs US... go to Glasgow if you’re “lookin for a lumber”.


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## Limey Lurker (20 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> That’s very true Adrian but then again we have never called a vice a vise etc.



Strictly speaking, when you "call" something, you actually _speak_ it's name; so whether it's spelt "vice", or "vise" the listener won't know. This notwithstanding, I feel a burning rage when I hear the language spoken in America described as English!


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## Cabinetman (20 Apr 2021)

Woody2Shoes said:


> It would be easy (for a foreigner) to imagine "American" as some kind of homogenous language. I think that - in spite of TV/internet - there is still some rich variation in accent and idiom across the US (just as there is across the UK) - I found this Youtube vid (no irony) absolutely fascinating:
> Also: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfZFeqnCUQDo5IvedomAsghqDAZwfHgZr



Thanks Woody that was fascinating when she wakes up I’m going to call America and ask Pam how she pronounces those words, so many different nationalities make up the original inhabitants of various parts of the US and at different times as well. But then I suppose it’s no different to South Yorkshire/Doncaster which is only 30 miles away from where I live, a completely different language almost. Ian


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## pe2dave (20 Apr 2021)

I guess we're just proving that English isn't a dead language, growing and changing over time.


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## John Brown (20 Apr 2021)

Limey Lurker said:


> Strictly speaking, when you "call" something, you actually _speak_ it's name; so whether it's spelt "vice", or "vise" the listener won't know. This notwithstanding, I feel a burning rage when I hear the language spoken in America described as English!


Said the man who doesn't know the difference between it's and its.
Honestly, if you feel a burning rage about such a trivial matter, how do you react if something seriously bad happens?


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

How do Americans pronounce "miaow"?


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## Sgian Dubh (20 Apr 2021)

I guess this is nothing to do with American v British English, but I do find it irritating that many people nowadays, when accused of wrongdoing or malfeasance of some sort, will say, "I refute that." When I hear that I expect the accused to follow up with a sentence containing evidence to disprove, contest, rebut, or otherwise counter the allegation, but I seldom hear anything of the sort. In reality, all the accused has done is deny the allegation, not refute it, so why not say, "I deny that/it." I wonder when it was that refute changed its meaning of offering a disproval, or similar, to it now meaning a denial? Slainte.


----------



## JohnPW (20 Apr 2021)

A few years ago in the UK, to ship/shipping meant to send something on an actual ship. Its US meaning of sending something by any means is common now.


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## Droogs (20 Apr 2021)

Wildman said:


> oh they do do traffic circles but not many of them


But a traffic circle is different to a roundabout. they have differing rules and controls for joining and exiting. One controlled by common sense and the other by US - traffic signal, UK - traffic lights and interestingly in South Africa - robots lol


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## Dr Al (20 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> Vise is the physical object here. Vice is a bad quasi cable channel or an addiction.



I didn't realise that both spellings were used. I had assumed it followed the pattern I've seen in most American English words with the same spelling for all meanings.

For example, we use practice as a noun and practise as a verb; in America I believe practice is used regardless; similarly "meter" is a measuring device in English and "metre" is a distance; but in America they're both "meter" so you have to use the context to work out whether a "micrometer" is measuring tool (as it *always is *in England; with the emphasis on the second syllable) or another name for a micron (micrometre - emphasis on the first syllable). We would, however, use vice for any meaning and "vise" is just a typo. I learn something new every day and all that...

I definitely prefer English spellings and meanings and would only ever use them, but I generally don't get *that *worked up about the use of American terms. I do, however, think there's a special place in hell reserved for anyone who uses "degrees" to mean "degrees Fahrenheit" (as in "it's 10 degrees outside!" - "10°C isn't especially cold, what are you complaining about?"). There's a similar spot in damnation reserved for the creators of websites that put dates in mm/dd/yyyy format to maximise the confusion of anyone outside of America - if you're going to shuffle the order of the numbers in the date, at least use the name of the month so it's unambiguous.


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## Dr Al (20 Apr 2021)

Droogs said:


> But a traffic circle is different to a roundabout. they have differing rules and controls for joining and exiting. One controlled by common sense and the other by US - traffic signal, UK - traffic lights and interestingly in South Africa - robots lol



We can hardly claim consistency there though - if you go to Nottingham, they call roundabouts "traffic islands" or just "islands". Where I grew up, "traffic islands" were the little raised areas in the road (usually with a road sign on) to separate traffic. Took me a while to figure out what they were talking about the first time I drove around the area with one of my OH's family navigating in the passenger seat!


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## Fidget (20 Apr 2021)

Just one word

Ghoti

Shows how silly the English language is


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## Stan (20 Apr 2021)

Coruscate, scintillate, globule vivific,
Fain would I ponder your nature specific.
Loftily perched in the ether capacious,
Strongly resembling a gem carbonaceous.



How's that for silly language? ( not my original )


----------



## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Limey Lurker said:


> Strictly speaking, when you "call" something, you actually _speak_ it's name; so whether it's spelt "vice", or "vise" the listener won't know. This notwithstanding, I feel a burning rage when I hear the language spoken in America described as English!



Spelt here refers to a pre-wheat from germany.


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## Woody2Shoes (20 Apr 2021)

Dr Al said:


> We can hardly claim consistency there though - if you go to Nottingham, they call roundabouts "traffic islands" or just "islands". Where I grew up, "traffic islands" were the little raised areas in the road (usually with a road sign on) to separate traffic. Took me a while to figure out what they were talking about the first time I drove around the area with one of my OH's family navigating in the passenger seat!


What my wife calls a 'snicket' or perhaps a 'ginnel' I call a 'twitten'. Our children - when they were little - used to speak differently (in terms of accent and idiom) to each of us (e.g. saying 'bath' with a short or a long 'a' according to which of us they were speaking).


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## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Woody2Shoes said:


> It would be easy (for a foreigner) to imagine "American" as some kind of homogenous language. I think that - in spite of TV/internet - there is still some rich variation in accent and idiom across the US (just as there is across the UK) - I found this Youtube vid (no irony) absolutely fascinating:
> Also: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLfZFeqnCUQDo5IvedomAsghqDAZwfHgZr




There's just as much surprise here when we hear there are a lot of dialects in England, because everyone is so geographically close there. 

But, yes, almost every region here has a different accent and the hard core locals in some places are almost unintelligible.

It doesn't always make sense, either. I'm in Pittsburgh, and 3 hours South of here in west Virginia and western Virginia, people sound southern like an old movie. If you go further south, then people start to sound less southern again, and then you go far south enough and some of them are Creole. I can identify central pa, Philly, Baltimore accent when I talk to people, but never noticed it when I lived there.

As far as the English go, I didn't think about the accents until I heard one infomercial guy sounding unlike another infomercial guy. Apparently, if you're going to sell a small drink blender in the U.S., it needs to be pitched by someone with an English accent. One similar to Paul sellers.

But what we don't have the same fascination with is correcting speech as I've noticed English folks to do. We just call the person we were talking to a hick or yokel after we walk away. The two that water me off the most here are..."yesterday, I seen a guy...." and "so, I says to them...".


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## lucgizi (20 Apr 2021)

Don't get me started on 'aluminium'


Cabinetman said:


> I was going to have a go about alumin- um. But after it was first invented by the Danes the process for smelting was first patented by an American so I suppose it’s fair doos, and they can call it what they want.
> But in actual fact it was Sir Humphrey Davey who confused everything which led the Americans to call it that.


Then again, the rest of the world says 'aluminium', so no excuse to drop a whole syllable


----------



## Cabinetman (20 Apr 2021)

Dr Al said:


> I didn't realise that both spellings were used. I had assumed it followed the pattern I've seen in most American English words with the same spelling for all meanings.
> 
> For example, we use practice as a noun and practise as a verb; in America I believe practice is used regardless; similarly "meter" is a measuring device in English and "metre" is a distance; but in America they're both "meter" so you have to use the context to work out whether a "micrometer" is measuring tool (as it *always is *in England; with the emphasis on the second syllable) or another name for a micron (micrometre - emphasis on the first syllable). We would, however, use vice for any meaning and "vise" is just a typo. I learn something new every day and all that...
> 
> I definitely prefer English spellings and meanings and would only ever use them, but I generally don't get *that *worked up about the use of American terms. I do, however, think there's a special place in hell reserved for anyone who uses "degrees" to mean "degrees Fahrenheit" (as in "it's 10 degrees outside!" - "10°C isn't especially cold, what are you complaining about?"). There's a similar spot in damnation reserved for the creators of websites that put dates in mm/dd/yyyy format to maximise the confusion of anyone outside of America - if you're going to shuffle the order of the numbers in the date, at least use the name of the month so it's unambiguous.


 I think some of the problem Al is that there isn’t a ° on the keyboard unless you use the microphone, yes the day and month thing is a real pita. Ian


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## Gant (20 Apr 2021)

If ‘vise’ is an Americanism, it’s not a recent one; see photo. This is an English vice.
The best confusion between UK and US English I came across in 30 years’ work alongside Americans was the bumbag. This is called a fanny pack in the US. In the UK only a gynaecologist would use a fanny pack.


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## Dr Al (20 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I think some of the problem Al is that there isn’t a ° on the keyboard unless you use the microphone, yes the day and month thing is a real pita. Ian



True, but most of the times it's confused me is on youtube videos or TV programmes or whatever. Besides, it's *not that *hard† to type Alt+0176 is it?!

† Yes, yes it is that hard, purely from a memory point of view. It bugs me that Microsoft think that's a good way to enter symbols. It bugged me enough (bearing in mind that in my job I have to write a lot of symbols like μ, †, ✓, ±, ≅, §, ≥, ∴ etc) that I wrote my own tool to make it easier to type stuff like that.


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## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Gant said:


> If ‘vise’ is an Americanism, it’s not a recent one; see photo. This is an English vice.
> The best confusion between UK and US English I came across in 30 years’ work alongside Americans was the bumbag. This is called a fanny pack in the US. In the UK only a gynaecologist would use a fanny pack. View attachment 108688



well, the guy apparently had parkinson's, so a mistake here and there is forgivable.


----------



## Droogs (20 Apr 2021)

Fidget said:


> Just one word
> 
> Ghoti
> 
> Shows how silly the English language is


nothing wrong with a bit of ghoti and ʤipz


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Apr 2021)

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea.
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot sea.
Eye strike a quay and type a word 
and weight four it to say
Weather eye am wrong oar write 
It shows me strait a weigh. 
As soon as a mist ache is maid 
It nose bee fore two long 
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong. 
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no 
Its letter perfect awl the weigh 
My chequer tolled me sew.


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## Fergie 307 (20 Apr 2021)

Much more irritated by management speak, blue sky thinking, horizon scanning, moving forward and so on. Unintelligible nonsense. Oh and people who start every sentence with "so", and those who use "like" as a form of punctuation.


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## Fergie 307 (20 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> I’ve never heard people use the word timber in America I don’t think, it’s always lumber particularly as in lumberyard


Not even when chopping down a tree? You have ruined my view of lumberjacks forever!


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## Cabinetman (20 Apr 2021)

Stakeholders! usually find the worst people for this sort of rubbish are council employees in management.


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## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> Much more irritated by management speak, blue sky thinking, horizon scanning, moving forward and so on. Unintelligible nonsense. Oh and people who start every sentence with "so", and those who use "like" as a form of punctuation.


 
big ditto to that. big big big. 

"game changing"
"symbiotic"
"finding efficiencies" 
"value adding"

These types of words have always been flung at me by folks who are really just saying "make more money for me, which means, just work more, but let's use buzzwords to hide what I'm really getting at - I just want more work out of you and if that means you don't record some of your time and you just eat it but get things done, we could book that as "efficiencies". 

I worked at a global firm at one point, we recorded our time. I ate my share of it to make budgets as they implemented two things at once:
* enter all of your time
* no write offs at the end of each month

That's interesting when half of the work at least was budgeted to be 50 cents on the dollar (meaning in order to get that part, you had to bid half of what it cost in time. Make it up elsewhere). 

Next phrase " stretch goals". 

At the end of one of the years, they raised all of our billable hour requirements and mentioned that they were putting together a work-life balance team as at the same time, there were complaints of being in the office too many hours. Shortly after that, they implemented the idea of "stretch goals". 

"we're not changing your goals, but we're adding stretch goals", which was a way of saying "your hours numbers have gone up 50 for the year beyond your regular goals. So, your goals haven't been changed. If you met your goals last year, you get a cost of living and then we'll look at merit separately. This year, to get a cost of living raise, you'll need to meet your stretch goals. But we're not changing your logged billing hours goals, they're still there. 

I made my supervisor repeat 6 times that in order to get a cost of living raise (meeting goals was defined as a way to get zero, by definition then), I have to bill 50 more hours than last year, which is up from what it was the prior year. But you didn't change my goals. "no, we added stretch goals". OK, last year, if I met my goal, i got a cost of living raise (how generous) while my hourly rate went up 10%. This year, if I bill my goal, what do I get. "no raise". What do I have to bill to get cost of living like last year". "you have to bill at your stretch goal". OK, so you didn't change our goals "no, we didn't change anything". 

These are people who get into a first tier supervisory position and they must go through a speaking class. As in, people who talked in logical terms just prior will now repeat lines like a robot that was programmed incorrectly, and they will not crack. 

I mentioned in another thread that my next goal setting was to leave by the end of the year. When I did leave the next year, my supervisor said that he didn't appreciate it as two months prior due to high turnover, the supervisors had been given a retention target, and if there was too much turnover, their bonus would be docked. 

"well, I guess you have a turnover stretch goal now, because I put your numbers in the tank at the start of the year". 

This was a finance/mathematics related environment. The salesman who had constantly used the term "we just need to find efficiencies" was a former history major who could do nothing more than take people to lunch and obnoxiously repeat things you'd say in a meeting. I have nothing against history majors - but when they become a salesperson in a technical field and then formulaically repeat what you said_ while you're still talking. _

rant off on business speak. It is or it isn't, please don't make up fake words to hide what is.


----------



## JobandKnock (20 Apr 2021)

KingAether said:


> planer thicknesser jointer is the one that gets to me as it made it a pain in the ... finding the right information online at first.-


But 'thicknesser' is, relatively speaking, quite a modern term. If you were to get hold of a British woodworking machinery catalogue of the 1940s to early 1960s you'd find what we now call 'thicknessers' are referred to, almost universally, as 'panel planers' whereas the 'planer' would be referred to as an 'overhand planer'. 'Jointer' was a term once reserved for either extremely long overhand planers or specialised machines with integrated power feeds which were used to produce longitudinal finger joints (although they could just as easily produce a flat surface). In production shops from the 1920s onwards there were small 6 to 9in wide overhand planers at the sides of some benches which were specifically meant to replace the hand jack plane sometimes used in joinery assembly work. These were often called a 'jacker' and to many joiners that term refers to any overhand planer. Confusing, isn't it?

Reading some of this other stuff here about business speak I'm glad I work in an industry where there is already so much BS that we couldn't possibly pack in any more. I think. Although I don't want my MD to ever discover 'stretch goals'

Edit: Just to make it clear, this is British English I am referring to...


----------



## Gant (20 Apr 2021)

It’s the new paradigm.


----------



## Trainee neophyte (20 Apr 2021)

Once upon a time there were problems, but then they morphed into "issues", which then were politicised (or politicized if you prefer) into "challenges". Newspeak.

Americans just speak very old English, which has been modified by lots of other languages. My favourite American word (which was actually English, once upon a time) is "discombobulated". Does exactly what it says on the tin. Sheer poetry.


----------



## NickDReed (20 Apr 2021)

Fergie 307 said:


> Much more irritated by management speak, blue sky thinking, horizon scanning, moving forward and so on. Unintelligible nonsense. Oh and people who start every sentence with "so", and those who use "like" as a form of punctuation.


My place loves a "robust process" despite the fact they can't develop one for love nor money. I have to laugh as workplace violence is frowned upon


----------



## D_W (20 Apr 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Once upon a time there were problems, but then they morphed into "issues", which then were politicised (or politicized if you prefer) into "challenges". Newspeak.



To the new person who hasn't been around long, these "challenges" are usually shifted off to someone else (both in terms of work and responsibility) and presented as "an opportunity".


----------



## HappyHacker (20 Apr 2021)

While working in Newcastle I dropped my car off at a garage and got a taxi into work, later in the day the same taxi driver took me back to the garage. During the total of 40 minutes I spent with the taxi driver, who was a born and breed Gordie, I don't think I understood more than two or three words he said, I just grunted at what sounded like the right places and he kept on talking. I have never had such a problem with Americans. 

I have been subject to hours of management speak and have had to use it occasionally as I spent a stint working for the BBC in the Birt era. My most hated is "Lessons will be learnt" which means we will change the process so management cannot be blamed in the future and the process will be so complicated no underling will be able to do their job while following the process so we can blame them when it all goes wrong.


----------



## Ollie78 (20 Apr 2021)

This is a funny thread.
Unfortunately we as "English speakers" have no right to complain about our language being missused and adapted.
We have stolen it from every other language and basterdised it to what it is now. I am glad we removed the need to give every object a sexual orientation which I think is one reason Engish has become so universal.

One language annoyance I have is that people have forgottten that "then" and "than" are different words, with different meanings ( I will allow 10% because of auto correct but otherwise stop it ! ) it makes me discombobulated. 

Personally I think all newsreaders should still speak like they did in the 1950`s as it is so much more stylish.

Ollie


----------



## kinverkid (21 Apr 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Once upon a time there were problems, but then they morphed into "issues", which then were politicised (or politicized if you prefer) into "challenges".


I once got a telephone call from a manager telling me that my supervisor is off work ill so if I have issues can I let him know. I said 'What would I be doing with his shoes?'


----------



## TRITON (21 Apr 2021)

*Morticers*
Not Mortisers


----------



## Jester129 (21 Apr 2021)

I once worked with a chap from Nuneaton (all of approximately 14 miles away), that, at the end of speaking used to say, "What, eh?". Every time he said this, I would reply with, "Pardon, excuse me?"
He eventually (remember, he was from Nuneaton) twigged that I was extracting the urine, so instead of "What, eh?" he would say "Pardon, excuse me?"
Imagine what it must have been like from someone hearing us speak!!!!! LOL.


----------



## Cantungman (21 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Vise instead of Vice. Doesn’t even sound right.
> Clamp for Cramp that one is almost ubiquitous now, in case you didn’t know a clamp is that bit of wood on the end of a breadboard, or something that fastens onto a tube. I think in this case it was just easier for people like Axminster to copy the American way.
> Lumber instead of Timber. I think I’m right in saying that lumber in the UK is used to refer to trees before they are cut up.
> Jointer for Planer
> ...



We would all be speaking German or Russian by now so get over it man. It’s a small price to pay. I travelled to California once and no one knew what I was talking about when I asked the way to La Jolla. Try explaining the spelling of Happisburg to anyone not from around here.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (21 Apr 2021)

While we're on stupid words and sayings, where did bloody "road map" come from?


----------



## Cantungman (21 Apr 2021)

Essex Barn Workshop said:


> a chip (french fry) off the old block (distance etc)


Americans stopped eating French fries a few years ago when they fell out over Iraq. They now eat Freedom fries.


----------



## kinverkid (21 Apr 2021)

When did we start giving people 'the middle finger' over the traditional 'two to the French'?


----------



## Limey Lurker (21 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> profess would be used instead of protest in the next to last example - at least in the US.
> 
> The English language didn't originate here, but we have fixed a lot of the errors in it, so far!


 They're NOT errors; they are Design Features!


----------



## Stan (21 Apr 2021)

Place names are the funniest. My son was once asked by an American the way to "LOOgah baROOgah".

Please excuse my clumsy attempt to render the pronunciation phonetically. One bragging point to whoever works out what they meant. Answer will be given in a day or so if nobody gets it.

I am sure it also works the other way. Why is "Arkansas" pronounced "ARkinsaw"?


----------



## Droogs (21 Apr 2021)

Loughborough

Same as when i was a kid and an english couple asked my friends and I how to get to Outer Mouty. Turns out they meant Och ter muxch tea (Auchtermuchty lol. they were Proclaimers fans on a pilgrimage.


----------



## selectortone (21 Apr 2021)

Stan said:


> Place names are the funniest. My son was once asked by an American the way to "LOOgah baROOgah".
> 
> Please excuse my clumsy attempt to render the pronunciation phonetically. One bragging point to whoever works out what they meant. Answer will be given in a day or so if nobody gets it.
> 
> I am sure it also works the other way. Why is "Arkansas" pronounced "ARkinsaw"?


Loughborough?

My favourite is Wor-sester-shire.


----------



## Gogsi (21 Apr 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I have no idea what sassy means.


Sassy means having a lot spirit or get up and go or a lot of zest.


----------



## Trainee neophyte (21 Apr 2021)

English place names are ludicrous. Can anyone top Woolfardisworthy? Note I said "English" place names - the celtic contingent run rings around the English, but it's a foreign language, so technically cheating.


----------



## JobandKnock (21 Apr 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> While we're on stupid words and sayings, where did bloody "road map" come from?


Boris the Bozo?

And if you think Happisburgh is bad, it'll "do yer 'ed in" trying to work out what folk in north east Essex call St.Osyth


----------



## scooby (21 Apr 2021)

Doug B said:


> Thinking about that my 70 year old engineering mate refers to them as clamps & I doubt he’s seen a You Tube woodworking video in his life.



I bet he's a secret Mr. Beast subscriber 

Got to admit, I only know of the existence of the aforementioned YouTube because he pops up on adverts a lot. I'm not a subscriber.....honest.


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## Gant (21 Apr 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> English place names are ludicrous. Can anyone top Woolfardisworthy? Note I said "English" place names - the celtic contingent run rings around the English, but it's a foreign language, so technically cheating.


Nempnett Thrubwell takes some beating. It’s my personal favourite; it’s just a little spot in the Mendips near Bristol.


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## scooby (21 Apr 2021)

selectortone said:


> Loughborough?
> 
> My favourite is Wor-sester-shire.


Towcester and Bicester are good ones also.


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## selectortone (21 Apr 2021)

There's a place near here called 'Shitterton'. And it's on the river Piddle .

The genteel set have tried on occasion to have it renamed 'Sitterton' but have had no luck so far. They've had to engrave the name onto a massive lump of rock because souvenir-hunters kept stealing the sign at the entrance to the village.


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Gogsi said:


> Sassy means having a lot spirit or get up and go or a lot of zest.



yes, with a side meaning in the states if a guy says it to another guy. Sassy is usually said to guys when they're turning into a bit of a diva or getting attitude that we'd expect from women (like ripping on how someone is dressed, whether or not their car is washed, etc). 

I suspect because it refers to guys getting "smart" over things we'd expect women to trouble us about, it'll be a cancelled term soon. 

Also used if someone is getting arrogant, condescending, etc, "ooh, you're getting sassy". Kind of like throwing a pink shirt over someone's personality when they don't really want that. 

When alex rodriguez ran to first a few years ago and tried to swat the ball out of a first basemen's glove, he was accused of "purse slapping". That was a sassy move. A more appropriate move for a guy who wanted to cheat would've just been laying a shoulder into the first basemen while running by. I don't think you could even call it "purse slapping" now, or you'd be canceled. 



Funny thing about this video is if you put "a-rod purse" in youtube, this is what comes up.


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Shartlesville, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





Shitterton should be near shartlesville. One is major, the other is minor.

The latter is near my in-laws. When I first met them, I didn't realize they were relatively humorless (we're all pennsylvania dutchy descendents - non-anabaptist PA dutch - not really known for a sense of humor). When a lady stopped by from shartlesville ("shart" has a meaning in the states, not sure if the Queens English covers it), I said I could open a t-shirt shop there and create a tourist draw by selling shirts that said things like "I got this shirt in Shartlesville, but left my underwear in the trash".

All of them laughed, none of them got it. The rude sense of humor (in their mind) got me the name "funny boy. funny boy has a joke for everything!".

Being very naive, the amish left us with several names that they don't see an issue with :









Bird-in-Hand, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Intercourse, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Blue Ball, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Pleasureville Historic District - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Paradise, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org













Mount Joy, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Stan (21 Apr 2021)

selectortone said:


> There's a place near here called 'Shitterton'. And it's on the river Piddle .




I think "piddle" used to mean a stream or a spring of water. It became a euphemism for urination, and after a time the concept of it being a euphemism was lost.

Doctor Foster who went to Gloucester originally stepped in a piddle right up to his middle. But after the change in meaning, it had to become a puddle.


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Apr 2021)

I live in Carharrack, pronounced by locals pretty much as Crhrrck. 
I heard Vanessa Feltz one morning refer to Tintagel as Tint a jel .................. twice in the same programme.
There was an Irish road sign that apparently had been stolen some years ago 300+ times before it occurred to the local council to have them cast and sell them.


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## Inspector (21 Apr 2021)

I'm wondering if you have people with the annoying habit of greeting you as though you aren't there and they are talking to someone else about you? "How's Peter today?" "What's Peter doing?" Where has Peter been?" I first remember it starting on TV with a character in a 70s US sitcom show. Bugged me then and drives me up the wall now.

Pete


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## Gogsi (21 Apr 2021)

I have great little anecdote from when I lived in Texas for almost 30 years. In my first job, which was in a factory, way back in 1979, I asked the supervisor, who was a short squat woman, 
"Can I borrow a rubber?" 
I just really wish I had a video showing the desperate look of shock on her face.
To clarify my request, I said, "You know, to rub out a mistake i made using my pencil." 
The look of relief on her face was epic.
She thought that i wanted to borrow a condom ! ...........and since I used the word borrow, I expect she thought I was going to bring it back : )


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Gogsi said:


> I have great little anecdote from when I lived in Texas for almost 30 years. In my first job, which was in a factory, way back in 1979, I asked the supervisor, who was a short squat woman,
> "Can I borrow a rubber?"
> I just really wish I had a video showing the desperate look of shock on her face.
> To clarify my request, I said, "You know, to rub out a mistake i made using my pencil."
> ...



Rubbers here when I was a kid (other than the obvious definition) were rubber booties that you would wear over nice shoes so that you didn't have to have two pairs of shoes - one for crappy weather, and one otherwise. My generation fell out of interest with them, but I had a relative who used them to the end, and references to putting away "dirty rubbers" were fairly common, as were comments like "don't leave without your rubbers"


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Stan said:


> I think "piddle" used to mean a stream or a spring of water. It became a euphemism for urination, and after a time the concept of it being a euphemism was lost.
> 
> Doctor Foster who went to Gloucester originally stepped in a piddle right up to his middle. But after the change in meaning, it had to become a puddle.



I'm sure there's regional uses for it, but my mother (and a lot of PA germans) would've used it for less urination than normal - like when you have a dog that meets someone new and they leave a few drops, or when someone misses the toilet with some but not all ("piddled over the edge"). I'm guessing it's unused now. My kids get a great charge out of grandma saying that she will soon "tinkle". 

Piddling is also a term used when it's raining really lightly. Like between nothing at all and a steady rain. 

"is it raining?"

"not really, it's just piddling". 

If this is more than just regional in the US, I'd be surprised. "It's just pissing rain" is also used more widely". The wee references are interesting because one of the rural things I've heard is "like a cow peeing on a flat rock" when it's raining hard. Most people in the US haven't seen a cow pee, though, and suburban politeness really doesn't allow for any references of the sort to begin with. The language here is almost magical sometimes - with explanations that someone is headed to the john that involve no mention of a bathroom nor the reason for getting up. I can never remember them. 

The only English fellow I know here uses the term "have a slash", which sounds relatively violent to me.


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## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> Rubbers here when I was a kid (other than the obvious definition) were rubber booties that you would wear over nice shoes so that you didn't have to have two pairs of shoes - one for crappy weather, and one otherwise. My generation fell out of interest with them, but I had a relative who used them to the end, and references to putting away "dirty rubbers" were fairly common, as were comments like "don't leave without your rubbers"


 Strange isn’t it, we call those rubber overshoe things galoshes and if somebody says it’s piddling down it means it’s really heavily raining and of course we have raining like stair rods which is sort of equivalent to your cow peeing on a flat rock, most of those places you mentioned are in County Lancaster I think, I’ve been to several of them all good Amish places as you say. There is an interesting secondhand woodwork equipment place in Blueball by the way.


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Galoshes would be recognized here as the same thing, too. 

Yes on lancaster - perhaps one or two of those trickles into an adjacent county. Lancaster is interesting not just due to the amish (which people recognize), but also the mennonite. There are a few things one will notice around there:
* the lawn crews instead of being hispanic are often mennonite women
* when you see a large property being mowed by someone and it's mennonite owned, it's always the wife, and they don't waste much time mowing (I like to point this out to my spouse)
* small businsesses that involve electricity (yard equipment, appliances, etc) are absolutely dominated by mennonites as they're honest businessmen/women, and they don't have a lot of vices, so they tend to work very reasonable and they don't ask for a whole lot of time off, and they do a good job. Conscientiousness is high
* between the amish and mennonite folks, there is still a large amount of woodworking going on, and in some cases, there are amish owners with "english" employees 

They do have a sense of humor, but it's simple and appropriate, though some don't have any at all. Someone like the folks on here (including me by a mile) who like snark and quick jokes - well, no reason to make jokes when nobody gets them. 

Most of the longer term amish eat like it's 1850, as do the mennonites. They can destroy a buffet that provides unlimited food, but will go out and bust their hump later and work most of it off, and as one put it to me "work hard during the day so that you can leave your worries behind and sleep well at night". 

No electricity for most orders, and no wasting of it for the mennonites who are allowed to have it, so in summers, the windows are open and the laundry is on a line. Amish who heat with oil here always have an exterior tank that is above grade (makes the shops and houses easy to spot when an oil tank is up on a riser above the first level) to create some feed pressure for the fuel lines. 

they are always nice folks. One of the guests at my best man's wedding was an amishman - a bachelor, too - which is rare. He critiqued my car as being not that great, told me how big of a waste air conditioning is and got into a verbal spat with the bride about wearing deodorant  He was a trim carpenter, probably still is. One of the joys of that wedding was seeing my buddy's wife call his shop (phone in the shop is OK, in the house, no) and have a brief discussion that went like this:

"Abner?"

....."yes"

"before you come to the wedding tomorrow, take a shower and put on deodorant".

"click." (abner was in the middle or some kind of retort when she hung up - I don't think he wore deodorant). 

hah


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## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

Yes you can always tell the farms because there is no electricity cable to it, and then there is the other lot who are allowed cars but they have to paint over the chromework with black paint. Lol, It was explained to me that the Amish have their own variation of Swiss German and English is actually a second language to them – I thought that was why they didn’t appear to have much of a sense of humour but I suspect you’re right.


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## Stan (21 Apr 2021)

D_W said:


> The only English fellow I know here uses the term "have a slash", which sounds relatively violent to me.



lol

I have heard of British soldiers causing American soldiers some concern when they say they are going outside "to smoke a fag". In Britain, this means just having a cigarette.

Re the Dr Foster thing:

Years ago I read that this children's rhyme was once allegedly a piece of insulting doggerel. The story was that some English churchman was intending to go to Wales to show them how to do religion the right way ( whatever that is?? ). He reached the town of Gloucester, which is on the River Severn. At that time Gloucester was the first crossing point over the river from the sea, making it an important point on the way to Wales. When he got there the river was in flood making it impossible to cross, so he went home. The verse mocks his lack of determination being held up by a mere "piddle". In reality the Severn in flood would have been deadly.

Is this story true? I have no idea. I have heard an alternative version of King Edward I falling off his horse.


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## Amateur (21 Apr 2021)

From next doors teens I would say everyone on here, "Smashed it" with the comments....
NB
Did you manage a walk?
I smashed it....


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## JobandKnock (21 Apr 2021)

selectortone said:


> There's a place near here called 'Shitterton'. And it's on the river Piddle .


Is it near Piddle Trenthide, perchance? Years (decades) ago I went out with a lass from the area who told me that the river was originally called the Piddle and that the river and some places like Puddletown had been renamed just prior to a royal visit (Charles II?)


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## selectortone (21 Apr 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Is it near Piddle Trenthide, perchance? Years (decades) ago I went out with a lass from the area who told me that the river was originally called the Piddle and that the river and some places like Puddletown had been renamed just prior to a royal visit (Charles II?)


Yes, that's the place. Lovely part of the world.


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Amateur said:


> From next doors teens I would say everyone on here, "Smashed it" with the comments....
> NB
> Did you manage a walk?
> I smashed it....



The kids here "smash" and "destroy" mundane things all the time, too. For a while, and perhaps still, everything was "amazing", and some younger kids say "it was the best ever" to everything they do. I have attempted to rain on that a couple of times by saying "it seems fairly low odds that every time you do something, it's better than every single other time you did the same thing", and they'll say "yeah, well, that's not what I mean - it's not the best ever like that".

OK. It's the best ever if "ever" was only the last time? I guess it's the positivity thing, which goes along with complimenting people when you really don't mean it. I kind of despise that - it certainly isn't the old german tradition that I grew up in, and my grandmother had a term for overly positive people "gusher" or "lady gushy-poo".

I got us in trouble at one point by asking why my grandmother called her friend "gushy" because I thought it was a nickname, and this was unfortunately overheard. But a truly gushy person blows that off and goes right by it, and that's just what her friend did (I'm sure it hurt feelings, but I didn't know...that could be a whole other thread - the rottenest thing you ever did or said without intending anything mean - I've got at least a dozen of those, but a coworker topped me by saying "don't be sad, it's not like your mother died or something" to a girl whose mother died the prior week (and he didn't know -actually, he didn't know the girl that well at all, but I'm sure she remembers who he is and what he said because she burst into tears). 

eek.


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Yes you can always tell the farms because there is no electricity cable to it, and then there is the other lot who are allowed cars but they have to paint over the chromework with black paint. Lol, It was explained to me that the Amish have their own variation of Swiss German and English is actually a second language to them – I thought that was why they didn’t appear to have much of a sense of humour but I suspect you’re right.



The black astro vans and other vans with black hubcaps would be mennonites. Same anabaptist traditions as the amish, but allowed to mingle with "the english" (amish aren't supposed to talk to the "english" unless there's a purpose, like work, etc). This is further muddied by the fact that there are sects of mennonites known as "horse and buggy mennonites". 

Mennonites can also have electricity in the house - some amish can for certain things (washing machines), but everything amish is set at the ordnung (the local bishop presides) so there aren't that many hard and fast rules that you can say are for all. Old order in some places, no sunglasses and no color in shirts. Others have things like bright yellow buggies and shirts with patterns. 

Abner gave me an ear full about how much better amish clothes were made than English clothes, and I hassled him about the fact that his shirt had no buttons (not allowed - they have hooks instead) - you can create endless discussion with someone like Abner (who is breaking the rules in the first place by hanging out with us) because everything is literal. When he was busting on my car (which was a relatively new volkswagen), I asked him what kind of seats his horse had (he thought the leather seats in my VW were lacking compared those in some other cars), and he went right on to the construction of the buggies. 

I hate to say it, but some of this has gotten passed on to me from the german background (not remotely like german in germany at this point), and yes, they do speak german in the house and not english. My wife's relatives are lutheran dutchies (came from same region, but protestant and "modern") and many of them also still speak german in the house, and to each other at things like funerals. I thought it was kind of a ruse at first "wie gehts?" until I answered "gehts gut" and that's about the extent I can speak - full fledged conversation follows. My last name matches a common mennonite name, apparently


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## Cabinetman (21 Apr 2021)

It’s a strange old World isn’t it Doug.


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## Yojevol (21 Apr 2021)

selectortone said:


> There's a place near here called 'Shitterton'. And it's on the river Piddle .
> 
> The genteel set have tried on occasion to have it renamed 'Sitterton' but have had no luck so far. They've had to engrave the name onto a massive lump of rock because souvenir-hunters kept stealing the sign at the entrance to the village.


There is, of course, the other Piddle in Wor-cester-shire which urinates into Shakespeare's Avon at Wyre Piddle.

S(h)itterton reminds me of the spoonerism uttered by my friend's mother, Conny, who was prone to such faux pars. She was driving along a narrow lane in the Welsh hills when she had to stop because one of the 'locals' was blocking the road. Another car drew up behind and after a few minutes of waiting the now irate driver started blasting his horn. Conny jumped out of her car and shouted back "I can't move, there's a seep sh1tting on the road"

@D_W , Your reference to Shartlesville had me flummoxed. I've led a sheltered life and haven't come across the offending word before. A quick search on the urban dictionary bought me up to speed. However I have heard the phonetic version of it many times, mostly by John McEnroe when commentating at Wimbledon. Usually he uses some superlative adjective in front of it to describe a point winning stroke. Which raises the question in my mind - if John pronounces shot as shart, how does he pronounce shart?



D_W said:


> Intercourse, Pennsylvania - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I presume this place wasn't founded by the Shakers
Brian


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## D_W (21 Apr 2021)

Yojevol said:


> I presume this place wasn't founded by the Shakers
> Brian



probably not!! The amish are prolific, though, but probably not recreationally.

AS far as shartlesville, someone from germany (given the area) probably had some german name that was close in german pronunciation to "shartles". Which means that a quick white pages google would maybe find such a thing (or perhaps that's doxing these days). That'd be a tough last name to have in high school.

I have to track down John Mac now. I'd call it a "shot" if it was really good, and a shart if the shot was bad enough to cost a match. I can't imagine a shart ever being welcomed.


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## Brill88 (22 Apr 2021)

Jester129 said:


> I once worked with a chap from Nuneaton (all of approximately 14 miles away), that, at the end of speaking used to say, "What, eh?". Every time he said this, I would reply with, "Pardon, excuse me?"
> He eventually (remember, he was from Nuneaton) twigged that I was extracting the urine, so instead of "What, eh?" he would say "Pardon, excuse me?"
> Imagine what it must have been like from someone hearing us speak!!!!! LOL.


I was born in Nuneaton but didn’t spend much time there can honestly say the term treacle town doesn’t go amiss there


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## stuart little (22 Apr 2021)

scooby said:


> Towcester and Bicester are good ones also.


Leominster, another. How about Lyme Regis? A friend was once asked, by an American tourist, the way to LYMEE REG-is. My friend told him that was where the original 'Limeys' came from!


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## Thingybob (22 Apr 2021)

Dont get me going with Captain Pugwash and Trumpton now there s hiden meanings


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## JobandKnock (22 Apr 2021)

Pugwash? Hidden meanings? Only if you believe the urban myth about what the Black Pig's mate's name was


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## MarkAW (22 Apr 2021)

The one that really annoys me is when asking for something in a cafe or shop. For example asking for a coffee: "Can I *get* a coffee"  ....only if you go behind the counter and make it yourself!


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## Thingybob (22 Apr 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Pugwash? Hidden meanings? Only if you believe the urban myth about what the Black Pig's mate's name was


Urban myths come about when chinese wispers are used to repeat somthing you told somebody who repeated to somebody etc etc so with social media being what it is we should be up to our thigh boots in myths by now


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## JobandKnock (22 Apr 2021)

Aren't we?


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## Thingybob (22 Apr 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Aren't we?


Depends on how high your thigh boots are lol


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## Droogs (23 Apr 2021)

we are but they are called conspiricies these days


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## TRITON (23 Apr 2021)

Thingybob said:


> Dont get me going with Captain Pugwash and Trumpton now there s hidden meanings


Contrary to popular belief, there wasnt a cabin boy named Roger.


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## Steve_in_Lincs (23 Apr 2021)

"..._and for reaching out to cinch." _I don't know about anyone else but I usually contact people, as I find my arms are too short to reach out beyond my immediate vacinity.


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## John Brown (23 Apr 2021)

Steve_in_Lincs said:


> "..._and for reaching out to cinch." _I don't know about anyone else but I usually contact people, as I find my arms are too short to reach out beyond my immediate vacinity.


And yet "contact" means "touch with" originally. So you'd still need those long arms.
Just goes to show, once again, that language evolves.


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## Inspector (23 Apr 2021)

John Brown said:


> And yet "contact" means "touch with" originally. So you'd still need those long arms.
> Just goes to show, once again, that language evolves.


 
I thought you shouted it when the magnetos were switched on so the guy on the ground could pull the propeller so you could hunt the Red Baron. 

Pete


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## Cabinetman (23 Apr 2021)

TRITON said:


> Contrary to popular belief, there wasnt a cabin boy named Roger.


 A real shame I quite liked that myth, in actual fact he was called Tom and Bate was mate


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## Thingybob (23 Apr 2021)

TRITON said:


> Contrary to popular belief, there wasnt a cabin boy named Roger.


It wasnt the cabin boy i was thinking about


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## Thingybob (23 Apr 2021)

He was an ordinary seaman "without inuendo carry on films would never of been popular"


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## rafezetter (23 Apr 2021)

Dude, like all of them, brah; what's your malfunction?


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## Nigel Burden (23 Apr 2021)

stuart little said:


> Leominster, another. How about Lyme Regis? A friend was once asked, by an American tourist, the way to LYMEE REG-is. My friend told him that was where the original 'Limeys' came from!



Similarly in East Dorset we have Corfe Mullen and Corfe Castle. As a child I would sometimes spend time at some friends just outside of Corfe Castle. An American asked the way to Corfee Castle.

Shapwick is pronounced Shapick. Beaminster is pronounced Bemister, and I once had a woman who insisted that Chideock was was Chide Oak not Chidick. 

Historically in Dorset the letter S was pronounced hard like a Z in many words, as was the letter F which was pronounced like a V, as in Welsh. So, I could say that "I'm vrom Darzet"

Nigel.


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## Peterm1000 (24 Apr 2021)

Nigel Burden said:


> Similarly in East Dorset we have Corfe Mullen and Corfe Castle. As a child I would sometimes spend time at some friends just outside of Corfe Castle. An American asked the way to Corfee Castle.
> 
> Shapwick is pronounced Shapick. Beaminster is pronounced Bemister, and I once had a woman who insisted that Chideock was was Chide Oak not Chidick.
> 
> ...


And what about Schenectady, Acequia, Ahwatukee , Port Hueneme, Wampanoag, Synendoche or Passamaquoddy? It's not just Americans who struggle with English place names. English people might struggle with some American place names too...


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## John Brown (25 Apr 2021)

Cantungman said:


> Americans stopped eating French fries a few years ago when they fell out over Iraq. They now eat Freedom fries.


I have never, ever heard anyone in America say "Freedom fries".


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## Mark Hancock (25 Apr 2021)

John Brown said:


> I have never, ever heard anyone in America say "Freedom fries".


Back around 2003 they did but think it has now lapsed.


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## John Brown (25 Apr 2021)

Even in 2003, I don't remember ever hearing that. Probably invented by The Express, or Nige.


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## Inspector (25 Apr 2021)

The Freedom Fries thing came about because the French were in opposition to an invasion of Iraq that the US was pushing for after 9/11. Freedom fries - Wikipedia Pretty much gone now.....at least until the next time France disagrees. 

Pete


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## John Brown (25 Apr 2021)

I know why it was supposed to have come about, my point is that the expression never really gained currency.


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## Trainee neophyte (25 Apr 2021)

Speaking of Freedom Fries, you can actually find poetry in American English, if you know where to look.

" . . you know frankly, going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion"

Also virtually anything ever written by H L Mencken. H.L. Mencken Quotes (Author of A Mencken Chrestomathy)


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