# What wood to use for Paul sellers workbench



## Samwise-thebrave (24 Dec 2020)

Hi all. I want a new project for the new year and as I haven’t really got a proper workbench I have been thinking about the Paul sellers workbench as it looks ‘fairly’ easy for a beginner like me. However, I want to know what wood people used and where they got it from? Wickes seems to be the obvious choice but would appreciate any guidance. I’m based in Leeds and timber merchants don’t seem to be very popular around here, I also don’t want to spend a fortune!
Thanks

Sam


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## marcros (24 Dec 2020)

hi Sam

Welcome to the forum. Where in Leeds are you? You are correct in that there are not too many places around. I would avoid Wickes, B&Q and Homebase. For hardwoods, I would go to British Hardwoods near Keighley and for other stuff, Arnold Laver are reasonable. Check the prices though, they can be a bit expensive on some, particularly odd lengths of hardwood. Clive walker are ok too, but check stocks. They claim to sell everything and any size but I am not convinced that they hold much on site. For this project, a builders merchant will be good enough, so shop local! William Madden (the Bradley depot) is my preferred builders merchant but it is local to me. Go somewhere that you can see what you are buying and select good straight pieces.

For a work bench, I would use whatever you can get easily and cheaply. Workbenches (at least for me) are a functional item so I would use softwood unless you have a glut of hardwood available at a sensible price. The c16 graded sawn stuff softwood is better than the fast growing CLS. You may also find that the 8x2 is better than the 4x2 and so cut it down to size. WIth that said, I am sure that many benches have been made with CLS in the past without problem.

One thing that you may want to consider is using a solid core firedoor as the top. Saves laminating timber etc and is heavy, dense and reasonably priced- especially if you can pick one up on Facebook or gumtree for not much.

Mark


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## dannyr (24 Dec 2020)

marcros
good reply, but please define CLS and solid core firedog

I think Sellars talks sense generally and is inspirational to many (not me but I read him, can't be bothered with the vids), but one bench of his I had my doubts about was the plywood bench - I'd steer clear of such and any engineered woods if there's chance of damp as in basements, garages and garden sheds - but he strongly disagreed when I made this point.


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## marcros (24 Dec 2020)

dannyr said:


> marcros
> good reply, but please define CLS and solid core firedog
> 
> I think Sellars talks sense generally and is inspirational, but one bench of his I had my doubts about was the plywood bench - I'd steer clear of such and any engineered woods if there's chance of damp as in basements, garages and garden sheds - but he strongly disagreed when I made this point.



firedog was a typo, damn auto correct. 

Howdens Solid Core Blank Plywood Flush FD30 Fire Door this type of thing. It is solid inside so is heavy. I dont know what the material is inside- chipboard maybe.

CLS- studding timber. What is CLS Timber? | Arnold Laver Blog and CLS Studwork Timber | Timber | Wickes.co.uk

I find that sellers grates on me a bit, but horses for corses...


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## Linus (24 Dec 2020)

Hi Sam

Started hobby woodworking 6 years ago and first off was Paul Sellars bench in CLS as advised. Cheap, easily available, just needed squaring up as Paul shows. As a complete woodworking novice, I followed Paul's videos and ended up with what I'm still using today, no problems. Vice was secondhand off ebay for £20. I'm satisfied with it.


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## biskit (24 Dec 2020)

Did mine a few years ago using 2” from BnQ I’ve found it great to work on.


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## Jameshow (24 Dec 2020)

Hi 

I'd recommend Henshaw timber Baildon. 

However the best timber they stock is rough sawn as its swedish pine with very close growth rings. 

Thier 4x2 is typical fast growing cheap pine. 

If you can use a plane, power plane or thicknesser that would be my choice.


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## Benchwayze (24 Dec 2020)

Southern Yellow Pine has been recommended by Chris Schwarz; he based his opinion on the 'hardness' of SYP; albeit that it's a softwood by botanical definition. (Hardness definitions are measured on the 'Janka' Scale; I believe.) 

I've used SYP for other jobs, and it's always been easy enough to obtain in the UK (Outside of DIY stores!) It is also pleasant to work; with SHARP tools. It is a lot more expensive here, than is quoted on YouTube; the USA is where it grows!

The first time I bought any, I had shopped for Pitch Pine. The timber merchant said 'Nah! We don't have any. What you want is some Southern Yellow Pine. It's just as good.' I can't say I was convinced, but I did buy the SYP, and it was certainly good enough for the job.

If you are near Warwickshire, then George Sykes in Atherstone is as good as anywhere else for supply of SYP. 

HTH

John


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## pe2dave (24 Dec 2020)

Paul Sellers is using the ply bench in his own workshop, which says a lot for it.
Second point: The ply would be much straighter than any 4x2 stuff?


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## Jameshow (24 Dec 2020)

marcros said:


> firedog was a typo, damn auto correct.
> 
> Howdens Solid Core Blank Plywood Flush FD30 Fire Door this type of thing. It is solid inside so is heavy. I dont know what the material is inside- chipboard maybe.
> 
> ...



I have yet to find a YouTube woodworker who doesn't grate!!! 

As for plywood for a workbench it just seems wrong from an engineering point of view. 

Cheers James


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## pe2dave (24 Dec 2020)

@Jameshow I think it reasonable to call Paul Sellers a woodworker, with a modicum of skills?
If he's happy with it, why might we argue, from which engineering pov?


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## marcros (24 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> I have yet to find a YouTube woodworker who doesn't grate!!!
> 
> As for plywood for a workbench it just seems wrong from an engineering point of view.
> 
> Cheers James



I haven't seen it. I think for a work bench I would rather spend the 40-50 odd quid that a couple of sheets of 12 or 18mm ply costs on some timber- whether that be reclaimed, or softwood or whatever. For an assembly bench or a portable bench then the sheet material might be fine. It all depends really on what the bench will be used for.


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## Jameshow (24 Dec 2020)

pe2dave said:


> @Jameshow I think it reasonable to call Paul Sellers a woodworker, with a modicum of skills?
> If he's happy with it, why might we argue, from which engineering pov?


Because half the fibres are going in an alternate direction to the main forces in the bench top and legs. 
Also from a asthetic position I find its lacking. 

Having said that my workbench has a plywood top soon to be covered by some softwood. 

Cheers James


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## Ollie78 (24 Dec 2020)

I would say get unsorted redwood or douglas fir rather than cls. It won`t cost much more but will be much nicer ,less knots etc. Also available in bigger sizes.
Cls for stud work is the lowest grade they can possibly get away with.

Ollie


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## thetyreman (24 Dec 2020)

yes get some redwood pine or douglas fir, I don't recommend CLS either, it's always low grade, but I've had problems with quality of redwood pine this year, quality has dropped off a cliff since lockdown, make sure you see the timber before ordering anything or at least explain you want joinery grade, if you can self select the pieces especially for the worktop you want as knot free as possible, then that will be ideal, old timber is often much better than anything we can get nowadays, often much tighter rings and stronger softwood and less knots.


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## SMALMALEKI (25 Dec 2020)

I bought some 1.5 *3 inch beechwood off eBay for my workbench. It was reasonably priced and local. Took me longer to make with more blade sharpening than I should have had.
If I go back to make it I’ll go with some softwood instead.
I also have a piece of sapele in the middle it was the first Paul Sellers workbench design with added middle dust clear out groove 

Saeid


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## johnnyb (25 Dec 2020)

I don't get using cls.i know wood buying is a bit intimidating but unsorted redwood is an obvious choice. no knots and good to plane. available as 9 by 2. my personal choice would be quebec yellow pine(Eastern white pine). simply because its so stable. but soft.


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## johnnyb (25 Dec 2020)

but I will say it pleases me(and mr sellars no doubt) that a simple workbench fires beginners up so much.
when I was a small child the first thing I made was a footstool. my dear mum always encouraged me and indeed went up the road and brought the wood. screws glue nails and a few hours. then sand stain and varnish and id got a bit of furniture. I guess adults need something more to get there teeth into.almost a rite of passage. but its a good lesson to learn that what is easy in one wood species is a pipper in another!


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## sploo (25 Dec 2020)

I built mine from untreated timber from PBS Buildbase in Harrogate. I've always found them to be pretty good for the quality of their pine.


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## Jameshow (25 Dec 2020)

CLS isn't all the same.. 

I've found some really decent lengths in the pallet. 
Hardly any knots close rings and regular sized. 

4x2 CLS X2 would be ideal for legs and cross members and 3x2 for the top. 60mm finished size as you don't need to plane the underside. 

Cheers James


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## Awac (25 Dec 2020)

Mr Gamgee, I was looking for some timber for a thick bench top and used skirting board laminated together (see my post BC-Roubo, for a photo. BC as in _budget conscious_! ). I mention this because sometimes you can get a pack of skirting/floorboards cheap if they are going out of style, or one is damaged. It also makes a top 5 1/2 thick, and oh so heavy. I think you could use this on the PS bench design. One tip, if you go this route buy more glue than you think you are going to need, same for clamps.....and lembas bread









BC-Roubo bench


BCR or the Budget Conscious Roubo. I made this in November 2018. It has had a few test modifications extra vices, dog holes in the top etc (test bed), but I don't seem to have any photos of this at the moment. It is in France and I have not gone back this year because of the difficulty of COVID...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk




)


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## Jameshow (25 Dec 2020)

You could easily pick up 4x1" timber at £1 a meter from henshaws I mentioned above. If you asked nicely they would skim 4x1 rough so it's 24mm. 

24" x 2m would be about £50! 

I'm tempted myself!!


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## fiddlerjon (26 Dec 2020)

I made my PS style bench out of CLS 7 years go. It’s fine. There is no need to make it out of more expensive timber, all you have to do is select your wood carefully: I think I bought it then from B&Q. Anyway, it’s still going strong; I’ve disassembled it and reassembled it several times over that time as I’ve moved my workshop around various rooms in my house. It does all I ask of it, but if you’re looking for another style bench you could also look at the Moravian style.


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

Linus said:


> Hi Sam
> 
> Started hobby woodworking 6 years ago and first off was Paul Sellars bench in CLS as advised. Cheap, easily available, just needed squaring up as Paul shows. As a complete woodworking novice, I followed Paul's videos and ended up with what I'm still using today, no problems. Vice was secondhand off ebay for £20. I'm satisfied with it.
> View attachment 99131


Thanks Linus, your bench looks brilliant! Well done! Do you find that you need more than one vice? Also have you ever thought of adding dog holes to your bench?


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> You could easily pick up 4x1" timber at £1 a meter from henshaws I mentioned above. If you asked nicely they would skim 4x1 rough so it's 24mm.
> 
> 24" x 2m would be about £50!
> 
> I'm tempted myself!!


Thanks James, I have had a look on their website and it looks very tempting!


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

biskit said:


> Did mine a few years ago using 2” from BnQ I’ve found it great to work on.View attachment 99133


Very nice! Was that 2 x 2?


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

marcros said:


> hi Sam
> 
> Welcome to the forum. Where in Leeds are you? You are correct in that there are not too many places around. I would avoid Wickes, B&Q and Homebase. For hardwoods, I would go to British Hardwoods near Keighley and for other stuff, Arnold Laver are reasonable. Check the prices though, they can be a bit expensive on some, particularly odd lengths of hardwood. Clive walker are ok too, but check stocks. They claim to sell everything and any size but I am not convinced that they hold much on site. For this project, a builders merchant will be good enough, so shop local! William Madden (the Bradley depot) is my preferred builders merchant but it is local to me. Go somewhere that you can see what you are buying and select good straight pieces.
> 
> ...


Mark that’s one very quick and detailed response so thank you very much!
I’m based in Roundhay. I’m not keen on having the workbench anything other than as functional as it can be so softwood would be fine I would say.
Apart from the obvious of avoiding the likes of wickes, are you saying that just from a point of view quality?


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> You could easily pick up 4x1" timber at £1 a meter from henshaws I mentioned above. If you asked nicely they would skim 4x1 rough so it's 24mm.
> 
> 24" x 2m would be about £50!
> 
> I'm tempted myself!!


Thanks. I’m not too worried about precise sizes as I can be quite flexible with that. Thank you


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

fiddlerjon said:


> I made my PS style bench out of CLS 7 years go. It’s fine. There is no need to make it out of more expensive timber, all you have to do is select your wood carefully: I think I bought it then from B&Q. Anyway, it’s still going strong; I’ve disassembled it and reassembled it several times over that time as I’ve moved my workshop around various rooms in my house. It does all I ask of it, but if you’re looking for another style bench you could also look at the Moravian style.


Thanks Jon. Did you put a couple of vices on it too?


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

johnnyb said:


> but I will say it pleases me(and mr sellars no doubt) that a simple workbench fires beginners up so much.
> when I was a small child the first thing I made was a footstool. my dear mum always encouraged me and indeed went up the road and brought the wood. screws glue nails and a few hours. then sand stain and varnish and id got a bit of furniture. I guess adults need something more to get there teeth into.almost a rite of passage. but its a good lesson to learn that what is easy in one wood species is a pipper in another!


My first project was a bedside table which I did in a woodwork course and I haven’t really been living in a place that I was able to carry on my pleasures! Now I have a garage so I’m slowly building my tool collection up and I feel the obvious thing that I’m missing is an actual workbench


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

SMALMALEKI said:


> I bought some 1.5 *3 inch beechwood off eBay for my workbench. It was reasonably priced and local. Took me longer to make with more blade sharpening than I should have had.
> If I go back to make it I’ll go with some softwood instead.
> I also have a piece of sapele in the middle it was the first Paul Sellers workbench design with added middle dust clear out groove
> 
> Saeid View attachment 99155


Very nice. Thanks for the reply


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## Jameshow (28 Dec 2020)

Was it Chris tribe's course by any chance?? 

My friend did it between lockdowns and it turbo charged his wood working. 

Cheers James


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> Was it Chris tribe's course by any chance??
> 
> My friend did it between lockdowns and it turbo charged his wood working.
> 
> Cheers James


Unfortunately not, I have seen his courses and they look amazing. This was a course in London (when I lived there) that was ok but had quite a few flaws. 
I would love to do one of Chris’s courses but think I need to just get going on practicing myself before I do another course. 
Sam


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## marcros (28 Dec 2020)

Samwise-thebrave said:


> Mark that’s one very quick and detailed response so thank you very much!
> I’m based in Roundhay. I’m not keen on having the workbench anything other than as functional as it can be so softwood would be fine I would say.
> Apart from the obvious of avoiding the likes of wickes, are you saying that just from a point of view quality?



partly quality, although you can search through and pick the best available to some degree (although it is in pack of several pieces), but it tends to be cheaper if you go to a timber place. 

if you are in roundhay and Wickes is also in roundly I would go and have a look at what they have. saving a few quid by going elsewhere isnt ideal if it takes you a couple of hours to do so! That store isnt bad.


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

marcros said:


> partly quality, although you can search through and pick the best available to some degree (although it is in pack of several pieces), but it tends to be cheaper if you go to a timber place.
> 
> if you are in roundhay and Wickes is also in roundly I would go and have a look at what they have. saving a few quid by going elsewhere isnt ideal if it takes you a couple of hours to do so! That store isnt bad.


Yeah I have been there quite a few times just to browse and look at their timber. Quite a lot of it is not the straightest pieces I have seen but for this workbench, I’m not sure how massively important that is! I’m all for keeping it local and not a big franchise but when it’s on my doorstep pretty much, it’s hard not to go there as my default!


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## Jameshow (28 Dec 2020)

How about these guys on eBay just around the ring rd? 









LIVE WANEY EDGE SLABS BOARDS TIMBER LARCH CEDAR BEECH | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for LIVE WANEY EDGE SLABS BOARDS TIMBER LARCH CEDAR BEECH at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!



www.ebay.co.uk





Also what about scaffold boards 

9" wide cut into 3" they are usually 13ft long so a 6.5ft bench fits nicely. Each just would give you 9" of cover. Which at £12 a board isn't a bad price. 

Cutting them up would be s bit of s chore.

Cheers James


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## billw (28 Dec 2020)

Those eBay boards work out to £28 a cubic foot, although there will be waste involved of course.


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## Samwise-thebrave (28 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> How about these guys on eBay just around the ring rd?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah I have wondered about scaffolding boards. Been to the Leeds wood recycling place a few times pondering over the big scaffolding boards for very cheap a metre, and feels like you are doing something right. And although I’m not worried about the aesthetics as such, the bench would need to very true and precise!


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## screwpainting (29 Dec 2020)

How about this...









Make your Workbench from MDF & Plywood !


Recommending that woodworkers make their workbench out of MDF and plywood reminds me of that old salsa commercial where the cowboys read the label and exclaim, “Made in New York City!” Don’t throw out the Salsa just yet, I think you will like the taste! Here is the scoop. Your workbench top...




robcosman.com


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> How about these guys on eBay just around the ring rd?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



James,
In the late 70s I acquired some 'scrap scaffold boards. These were made from pitch pine and were a full 2" thick. They were also around a foot wide. By the time they were cleaned up they just about made 1.5 inches thickness
Probably the minimum thickness for usr as a benchtop.

Scaffold boards are supposed yo be made from the nest pine


Awac said:


> Mr Gamgee, I was looking for some timber for a thick bench top and used skirting board laminated together (see my post BC-Roubo, for a photo. BC as in _budget conscious_! ). I mention this because sometimes you can get a pack of skirting/floorboards cheap if they are going out of style, or one is damaged. It also makes a top 5 1/2 thick, and oh so heavy. I think you could use this on the PS bench design. One tip, if you go this route buy more glue than you think you are going to need, same for clamps.....and lembas bread
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As far as I can see Paul's bench has a two inch thick too. I don't think this is thick enough. My first bench had a mahogany top made from the salvaged bartop of the Lord Nelson pub in Ladywood. It was just about 1.5" thick and was prone to a lot of bounce back. I solved that by putting it on a frame of three by twos in a kind of torsion box.
It worked well and I can't see me using a bench top of any less than 3 inches thickness. That's why, if I am spared I am going to use a beech worktop of 40mm thickness laminated by folding the top into an 80mm beech top 5 ft by 20 inches. Settle for that in my cramped shop. No tail vice or tool well. Something like the benches we used in the 1950s. Not only at school but also in the joiners shop of the 1960s. Tail vice? Never heard of that mate! 

John


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## pe2dave (29 Dec 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> As far as I can see Paul's bench has a two inch thick too. I don't think this is thick enough.



If you download the plans, you'll see it is 4x2, edge on to form the top, i.e. 4" thick.


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

Thanks Dave. Somewhere then I saw someone making a Nicholson bench with a 2inch top and an apron. I could habe sworn it was Paul's video. Maybe I am confused. If so then my apologies to all concerned. Ah well I shall be 82 in February!

John


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## Linus (29 Dec 2020)

Samwise-thebrave said:


> Thanks Linus, your bench looks brilliant! Well done! Do you find that you need more than one vice? Also have you ever thought of adding dog holes to your bench?


Thanks for the compliment. No, I can't recall needing a second vice. If I need further holding then using clamps and the bench satisfy all that I have needed. What I have done is bored fixing holes in the top to mount an engineering vice as and when I need it if I'm butchering any metal. I haven't fitted dog holes as I haven't needed any, yet but it would be simple enough as the bench top is pretty robust. What was best about making the bench was that every stage was a learning curve re chisels and planes and traditional hand tools and I learnt quite a bit along the way. I suppose to some Paul Sellars is a bit like Marmite, but I found his vids a wealth of knowledge and I enjoyed his philosophy towards woodwork. 

By the way, the CLS came from Wickes, hand selected so I had no issues.


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## pe2dave (29 Dec 2020)

This is the first of the video's John. A whole series of them, with plans to boot if you want them.


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## Samwise-thebrave (29 Dec 2020)

pe2dave said:


> This is the first of the video's John. A whole series of them, with plans to boot if you want them.


Thanks Dave, yeah I have watched them a few times now, now it’s just the case of buying the wood and ‘actually’ doing it!


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## Samwise-thebrave (29 Dec 2020)

Linus said:


> Thanks for the compliment. No, I can't recall needing a second vice. If I need further holding then using clamps and the bench satisfy all that I have needed. What I have done is bored fixing holes in the top to mount an engineering vice as and when I need it if I'm butchering any metal. I haven't fitted dog holes as I haven't needed any, yet but it would be simple enough as the bench top is pretty robust. What was best about making the bench was that every stage was a learning curve re chisels and planes and traditional hand tools and I learnt quite a bit along the way. I suppose to some Paul Sellars is a bit like Marmite, but I found his vids a wealth of knowledge and I enjoyed his philosophy towards woodwork.
> 
> By the way, the CLS came from Wickes, hand selected so I had no issues.


That’s very helpful thanks for that. And good to know it’s not just me that goes to Wickes for their timber


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## Linus (29 Dec 2020)

Samwise-thebrave said:


> That’s very helpful thanks for that. And good to know it’s not just me that goes to Wickes for their timber


Oh don't get me wrong. Wickes sell some awful c**p but be selective. We don't all have accounts at the local timberyard.


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## Jameshow (29 Dec 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> James,
> In the late 70s I acquired some 'scrap scaffold boards. These were made from pitch pine and were a full 2" thick. They were also around a foot wide. By the time they were cleaned up they just about made 1.5 inches thickness
> Probably the minimum thickness for usr as a benchtop.
> 
> ...



I was suggesting using a scaffold planks sawn into 3 lengthwise and then laminated face to face giving s bench a shade less than 3" 

I shop at Wickes too. 2x2 is better from Wickes than local timber merchants. 

Arnold laver would be better but a trek and not as customer friendly. 

Cheers James


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## Benchwayze (29 Dec 2020)

Jameshow said:


> How about these guys on eBay just around the ring rd?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes James. I apologise. I was thinking of the Nicholson design bench. Not a block construction, as in Schwarz's bench from his book. 

Rex Krueger (Spelling?) has a video on the 'Tube for the building of an 'English' bench, much like the Nicholson design. That is very 'weedy' by comparison, and is almost a box, without a torsion frame inside. 
I think a torsion box design would be the next best bet to a laminated top from 3 or 4x2s.

Regards 

John


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## lexi (29 Dec 2020)

I think the OP will find that Lavers in Leeds iirc, is a pretty good timber merchant for hardwood and all sorts.


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## Terrytpot (29 Dec 2020)

spotted this earlier which seems quite reasonable although obviously not for a workbench..


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## Jelly (29 Dec 2020)

johnnyb said:


> I don't get using cls.i know wood buying is a bit intimidating but unsorted redwood is an obvious choice. no knots and good to plane.



You'll be lucky at the moment, lots more (live) knots coming through in the U/S Redwood packs I'm seeing... 

Of course that's not strictly a defect, but I strongly suspect that the packs of "fifths or better" I've been seeing of late were much more to the "fifths" side of the equilibrium than is normal.

Still not bad to plane and finishes well, but not quite as nice to work with as the material I'm accustomed to.


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## timothyedoran (31 Dec 2020)

I made my Sellers workbench this year. I used 2*3 CLS from Wickes for the top. I was working late and tired when I did the top lamination and made a silly mistake. Some how I forgot to check it was glued up square and ended up with a twisted glue up. I almost started again by figured it would be a good learning experience to plane it flat.

Wickes is cheap but pick your own as it is variable quality. I must have rejected 90% of the timber.

I can recommend making a scrub plane if you don't have one. Mine is made from a horrid silverline no.4 which is now quite useful.


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## Sneezle (6 Aug 2022)

Firstly, sorry to resurrect this thread.

There are a lot of really nice benches in here made from Wickes and B&Q wood and I was hoping I could pick your brains for your dimensions and your advice.

I'm also a total amateur and looking to build my first bench. I'm in Birmingham and whilst there are some timber yards around, the nice looking ones aren't open at the weekend and the others I have been too were either a bit confusing in terms of pricing or just a bit unfriendly (assuming more suited to trade customers who know exactly what they need!).

So Wickes it is for this one. It'll have to be delivered as I only have a very small car!

I've looking at the plans for the bench and I can't seem to find the dimensions that Paul uses for sale anymore. 

What dimensions would people who have made this from Wickes wood recommend? I want it to be strong enough to mount an old Record vice to (that I found in a school skip!)

I'm also reading here about the preference for redwood or C16 instead of CLS. Would people recommend that?

Thanks in advance for any help!


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## Ttrees (6 Aug 2022)

If yer into skips then I suggest making it long enough to plane a door stile,
i.e a planing stop of some sort on the end, and _no overhang of the material, _

I suggest not ruining the surface using Paul's techniques though, and actually take care of it.
(That's if you intend to become proficient at hand planing without need for a machine to do the job)
All the best
Tom


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## thetyreman (6 Aug 2022)

Sneezle said:


> Firstly, sorry to resurrect this thread.
> 
> There are a lot of really nice benches in here made from Wickes and B&Q wood and I was hoping I could pick your brains for your dimensions and your advice.
> 
> ...


Try finding somewhere where you can get redwood pine, I used PAR redwood pine for mine, I wouldn't recommend wickes or B&Q, send some other places a cutting list and then they can give you a quote, I think southern yellow pine or douglas fir would be a far better choice for a bench than pine mainly because of the lack of knots.


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## Spectric (6 Aug 2022)

Jameshow said:


> As for plywood for a workbench it just seems wrong from an engineering point of view.


Why, we have glulam beams for structural loads Glulam | James Jones and Sons Limited

and Dennis made a really decent bench from laminated ply for the frame, 

using this method allows for any length or size you want and not restricted by the size of the tree.


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## Ttrees (6 Aug 2022)

That's an MFT though, and not a workbench for hand tool woodworking.

For the same money as solid timbers, plywood is a completely different animal than laminated together, and wouldn't be in anyway suitable.
I'd doubt even the best baltic birch would be suitable for a top for efficient precision planing, and not fooling around.

Nice to have a few offcuts for chopping on, and protecting the bench from saw cuts, which should be a given.

Tom


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## mikej460 (6 Aug 2022)




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## Jameshow (6 Aug 2022)

How about cutting an 8x4 x 3/4" ply in half 24" then cut into 64" long. 

One is base of bench top. 

Cut one into 8" strips. 

1 for the apron, one for the back of the bench and one for the front of bench. 

Cut the remaining offcuts into 8" strips and laminate into a 56mm thick bench top. 
Crew through from underside with 50mm screws in oversize holes and PVA glue to make solid bench. 
Cut motices for legs in bottom two laminations. 

2x 3" 8ft fence posts cut down to 2x 28" legs 2x 20" rails. 


Just a thought on back of envelope!!


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## Ttrees (6 Aug 2022)

Is he still using that bench, he seems to change them like pajamas.
I wouldn't be keen on being the first to see how well it might fair out.
i.e swelling
Guessing the ply is thirsty stuff if wanting to seal it. (for quite a few reasons)
Could end up being quite a costly process, and possibly no good in the end.

Not much ply in my damp shed, as it goes moldy in there.
Yet to see the same happen to any pine or hardwood.

Still though, might make sense for one who has sheets and sheets of the stuff lying around.

Tom


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## dannyr (6 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> Is he still using that bench, he seems to change them like pajamas.
> I wouldn't be keen on being the first to see how well it might fair out.
> Guessing the ply is thirsty stuff if wanting to seal it.
> Could end up being quite a costly process.
> ...


agree - ply is not the wood for any damp situation, (even slightly, even temporarily) - and 'exterior ply' is not the answer although marine ply may be if you have plenty of money


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## Spectric (6 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> That's an MFT though, and not a workbench for hand tool woodworking.


Yes hand tools, need something substantial so look at 4 inch fence post for the legs, it is what I used for an engineering bench in my last workshop involving metal and heavy items but little woodworking.


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## pe2dave (7 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> That's an MFT though, and not a workbench for hand tool woodworking.
> 
> For the same money as solid timbers, plywood is a completely different animal than laminated together, and wouldn't be in anyway suitable.
> I'd doubt even the best baltic birch would be suitable for a top for efficient precision planing, and not fooling around.
> ...


Perhaps you hadn't noticed, Sellers has made and uses his ply bench regularly.


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## Jameshow (7 Aug 2022)

Paul Sellers - who's he?!


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## thetyreman (7 Aug 2022)

Jameshow said:


> Paul Sellers - who's he?!


I get the impression most people here hate him as well as on the 'other' forum.


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## Jameshow (7 Aug 2022)

thetyreman said:


> I get the impression most people here hate him as well as on the 'other' forum.


I don't dislike him, just the simple woodworking he promotes clashes with the slick marketing machine behind it. 

Happens all the time when a YouTuber becomes popular and starts getting endorsements or hobnobbing with the "stars" at which point I unsubscribe!!!


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## John Brown (7 Aug 2022)

I made my bench out of leftovers. The legs came from an old pallet(not the standard shape or size, it was some sort of special). I had some 6 by 2 left over from building my shed, so I ripped it into 3 by 2 and laminated the worktop. The well is a removable piece of Douglas Fir. I had great trouble finding anything suitable for the aprons, so I ended up buying some timber from Travis Perkins, which has not stayed very flat, but it's probably good enough for the crude work I generally do. Added to which the entire bench is usually covered in rubbish to the point of invisibility...


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## Spectric (7 Aug 2022)

Some of these you tubers do tend to forget who made them popular in the first place.


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## Seascaper (7 Aug 2022)

Probably like you I wanted to upgrade and old rickety bench that I have used for many years. When I priced up the cost of the wood I started looking for a good secondhand work bench. Within quite a short like I came across a Sjoberg vintage bench in practically unused condition, like new. One owner from new, came with the purchase receipt from the 70’s and complete with unused accessories. This is a beautiful solid work bench for very little money, the owners were more concerned that it went to a worthwhile home. It saved me a lot of money and time.


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## Ttrees (7 Aug 2022)

pe2dave said:


> Perhaps you hadn't noticed, Sellers has made and uses his ply bench regularly.


But does anyone honest use a bench made like that?


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## Jameshow (7 Aug 2022)

It baffles me why he ever designed it!

I guess the best of men have thier flaws!!!


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## okeydokey (7 Aug 2022)

This is too late for the original post but open a Wickes tradepro account which can get you trade discount.
Slightly separate has anyone used new garden sleepers as legs or frame of a bench


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## John Brown (7 Aug 2022)

Jameshow said:


> It baffles me why he ever designed it!
> 
> I guess the best of men have thier flaws!!!


I think it's aimed at people with a very limited tool set and/or skill set. Circular saw and a drill/driver, bottle of glue plus a handful of cramps.


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## mikej460 (7 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> But does anyone honest use a bench made like that?


It's a simple, relatively cheap option, built and used by others. I agree it's not a heavy bashing table and may irritate some traditionalists but perfectly good for assembly, light woodworking etc. Personally I intend to build a bench using Dennis from Hooked On Wood's design, but keeping my solid beech lump for heavier work. Sellers gets on my nerves occasionally but I have found some of his ideas very useful - have you tried using the Thor 712R as a mallet? It's a revelation.


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## Ttrees (8 Aug 2022)

mikej460 said:


> It's a simple, relatively cheap option, built and used by others. I agree it's not a heavy bashing table and may irritate some traditionalists but perfectly good for assembly, light woodworking etc. Personally I intend to build a bench using Dennis from Hooked On Wood's design, but keeping my solid beech lump for heavier work. Sellers gets on my nerves occasionally but I have found some of his ideas very useful - have you tried using the Thor 712R as a mallet? It's a revelation.


I would have thought that's all that particular plywood bench would be good for.
Yet to see anyone be accurate/honest and productive, using anything but a 
trusty _flat _bench top regarding using a hand plane.
The hand planing in my opinion, being the most important work regarding accurate hand tool woodwork or "hybrid" woodworking in the workshop.
Everything else is gravy after that.

Yet to see anyone honest demonstrate otherwise.
That's not asking for much I don't think, yet I always get a bit of sthick for stating the obvious.

Nothing compares to the CCW method, not even close.
Fine woodwork I'm talking about, and not green woodwork.

Tom


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## Adam W. (8 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> I would have thought that's all that particular plywood bench would be good for.
> Yet to see anyone be accurate/honest and productive, using anything but a
> trusty _flat _bench top regarding using a hand plane.
> The hand planing in my opinion, being the most important work regarding accurate hand tool woodwork or "hybrid" woodworking in the workshop.
> ...


What's the difference in accuracy required for fine woodwork and green woodwork then ?


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## pe2dave (8 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> But does anyone honest use a bench made like that?


Rather a nasty slur there?


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## Jameshow (8 Aug 2022)

pe2dave said:


> Rather a nasty slur there?


I'm sure he ment honestly....

We ale make mistahes....


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## BearTricks (8 Aug 2022)

I’m in the process of making my first ‘real’ bench. I’ve knocked up a few cheap light assembly benches in the past which I’ve always left at previous houses and which I wish I’d kept given the price of materials now. 

I’m using the old pine joists from a house remodel. They were huge when I started and after getting the twists and bends out and losing a few mm here and there due to mistakes and poor planning it’s now a lot smaller and lighter than I’d have liked. The wood was free though, and I guess it’s better than if I’d ordered expensive Ash and made the same mistakes. It’s going to be Moravian style, the intention being that I bash it about a bit then switch the top to something bigger and heavier if and when prices come down.


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## Jonm (8 Aug 2022)

Seascaper said:


> Probably like you I wanted to upgrade and old rickety bench that I have used for many years. When I priced up the cost of the wood I started looking for a good secondhand work bench. Within quite a short like I came across a Sjoberg vintage bench in practically unused condition, like new. One owner from new, came with the purchase receipt from the 70’s and complete with unused accessories. This is a beautiful solid work bench for very little money, the owners were more concerned that it went to a worthwhile home. It saved me a lot of money and time.
> 
> 
> Seascaper said:
> ...


I have done something similar but the one I bought is not to your high standard and is still not properly set up. However it was very local, came with a record 52 1/2 QR vice and a fortis engineers vice. £50 FB Marketplace. workbenches come up regularly on eBay and similar so it is one way to get a workbench and possibly cheaper than the cost of the wood. Photo below of mine is from the advert.


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## Jameshow (8 Aug 2022)

Jonm said:


> I have done something similar but the one I bought is not to your high standard and is still not properly set up. However it was very local, came with a record 52 1/2 QR vice and a fortis engineers vice. £50 FB Marketplace. workbenches come up regularly on eBay and similar so it is one way to get a workbench and possibly cheaper than the cost of the wood. Photo below of mine is from the advert.View attachment 141266


Nice - vices are worth easily more than that!!


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## Ttrees (8 Aug 2022)

Adam W. said:


> What's the difference in accuracy required for fine woodwork and green woodwork then ?


That's a long (decent) question, which I'll try and answer quickly.
In my opinion anyone looking to do real fine work
Take laminating a benchtop for instance from anything solid you can find
if you don't want gaps, that requires tolerance.

Contrast that to folks who specifically aim for a different sorta end product
like Follansbee, who procures his own timber all very much like yourself.
Intentionally being historically accurate and aiming to make _reproductions/repairs to stuff made in that time._
Follansbee is credible, and doesn't try and fool folks, and he's not aiming for fine tolerances, but he can use ahand plane well for his work.



pe2dave said:


> Rather a nasty slur there?


I've watched near every free video he's made, and never seen him do anything with a hand plane which I could call honest, or good practice.
Have you tried his methods like stuffing shavings into the mouth with thumb and forefinger to eliminate or reduce tearout?
What about planing long bendy stock in a vise?
What about forgetting about how a double iron plane works, how did ya get on with that.
I could go on, as I've never seen him do anything but bad habits using a hand plane.

Dimensioning the material and getting less than stellar results will stop one from progressing, which is the aim of his videos.
He wants folks to fail and feel ham fisted, so they go looking at his courses for the answers.

Contrast that to using a flat bench which makes the work easy and accurate.
No skill required, physically easier regarding effort, faster, properly accurate to the tolerance one needs to laminate anything, or just plane well.

Yet to see anyone make a video regarding accurate planing using anything other than the flat bench method.
This is IMO why so many folks fail at learning how to use a cap iron,
or just even just prepare the stock with acceptable results, 
and feel they need to get a plastic P/T with a noisy throwaway motor which might let the magic smoke out at any moment.

Please try and "attack" me for others sake, 
rather than say I'm being insulting, as it's just hot air without proof.
Surely one with such an opinion can give me another reference regarding fine work.

Hopefully you can find a video of similar work practice, or just anything but using a flat bench, and I'll "attack" that too, or be proved wrong.

All the best
Tom


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## CaptainBudget (8 Aug 2022)

Jonm said:


> I have done something similar but the one I bought is not to your high standard and is still not properly set up. However it was very local, came with a record 52 1/2 QR vice and a fortis engineers vice. £50 FB Marketplace. workbenches come up regularly on eBay and similar so it is one way to get a workbench and possibly cheaper than the cost of the wood. Photo below of mine is from the advert.View attachment 141266



Good shout that, though I've found when they do become availabe in South Yorkshire they almost always have a silly price (£200-300+) because a couple of years ago Hipsters have started hoovering them all up to use them as Kitchen Islands and side tables...


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## Adam W. (8 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> That's a long (decent) question, which I'll try and answer quickly.
> In my opinion anyone looking to do real fine work
> Take laminating a benchtop for instance from anything solid you can find
> if you don't want gaps, that requires tolerance.
> ...


I'm pretty sure there are no gaps in the chest I made, although there may well be a slight change in level at the joint, but that's because I haven't planed the joint flush on purpose.

The face of the chest is flat, although the back isn't and all the joints are tight even though it's green woodworking done by hand and with a minimum of tools and it has sat in a room with a woodburner for over a year.

You may be confusing tolerance with something else, I'm not sure what it is, but the skills required to produce furniture which was made in the 17th. century by hand, outstrip the skills required to laminate a bench top by a long chalk.


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## mikej460 (8 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> That's a long (decent) question, which I'll try and answer quickly.
> In my opinion anyone looking to do real fine work
> Take laminating a benchtop for instance from anything solid you can find
> if you don't want gaps, that requires tolerance.
> ...


I guess you're not a fan then Tom, but as such I wonder why you've watched nearly all his videos? 

These Youtube 'experts' (an old boss of mine defined 'expert' where ex is a has been and spert is a drip under pressure) make their living from these videos, some are good some not so much. Sellers' target market is people starting out in woodworking and those who wish to improve; he doesn't aim his videos at very experienced people like yourself. If I don't like a particular way he does things I move on and I've watched many Youtube videos and learned a great deal along the way. As I've said, he does irritate me at times and I am far from an avid fan, but I have learned from him (more on chiselling than planing) but I fail to see your justifications for your personal attacks on the man. The proof you call for is the huge following he clearly has, a lot of woodworkers do like what he demonstrates, but if you and other very experienced and talented woodworkers don't agree with his methods then by all means say so, but personal attacks like this are somewhat beneath you and unnecessary.


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## Rob D (8 Aug 2022)

What other online woodworkers content, DVD’s, books would you recommend Tom? 
Someone here who has mostly followed Paul Sellers so far and had no clue how to even take a shaving with a hand plane a few years ago but who is always keen to improve.


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## John Brown (8 Aug 2022)

I can't get my head round the level of vitriol PS arouses in some people. When I've watched him, I just see some old guy trying to encourage beginners. Never seems to push branded tools...
Mind you, I've never watched any of his paid for stuff, maybe that's a different kettle of fish.


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## D_W (8 Aug 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I have yet to find a YouTube woodworker who doesn't grate!!!
> 
> As for plywood for a workbench it just seems wrong from an engineering point of view.
> 
> Cheers James



Curtis Buchanan - but he's not really much of a youtuber, and most people would think his workshop is dirty if they watch youtube a lot.


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## Ttrees (9 Aug 2022)

mikej460 said:


> I guess you're not a fan then Tom, but as such I wonder why you've watched nearly all his videos?
> 
> These Youtube 'experts' (an old boss of mine defined 'expert' where ex is a has been and spert is a drip under pressure) make their living from these videos, some are good some not so much. Sellers' target market is people starting out in woodworking and those who wish to improve; he doesn't aim his videos at very experienced people like yourself. If I don't like a particular way he does things I move on and I've watched many Youtube videos and learned a great deal along the way. As I've said, he does irritate me at times and I am far from an avid fan, but I have learned from him (more on chiselling than planing) but I fail to see your justifications for your personal attacks on the man. The proof you call for is the huge following he clearly has, a lot of woodworkers do like what he demonstrates, but if you and other very experienced and talented woodworkers don't agree with his methods then by all means say so, but personal attacks like this are somewhat beneath you and unnecessary.


The thing is I ain't very experienced, but have learned how to plane from the best.
The hand plane is so hugely important to hand tool woodworking, and certainly not something to learn down the road, start off with good habits rather than bad ones kinda thing, and _progress rapidly!_
Couldn't care less if he or anyone else may have an irritating personality, 
doesn't bother me in the slightest bit whatsoever, yet I see folks bringing this up _constantly_ rather than the *actual* *important stuff.*
This confuses me greatly, maybe it's part of the act and folks are actually getting annoyed at the whole package regarding to the misleading nature of the planing.
A friend brought over some of Paul's videos before, where he was in a castle with tense music like the results of some bake off finale,
Still the same bad habits as seen on youtube.
My mate wasn't too pleased about bursting that bubble, but one has to remember...
It's easier to fool someone than it is to convince them that they have been fooled!


A huge following ain't proof of anything, that comment was to get my own personal attacks, which I'm still waiting for in video format.
This is the proof I'm referring to, and not pot shot comments which are vague at best.

Beneath me and unnecessary, not so.
I ain't here to make friends or be friendly, although try to most of the time,
I'm looking out for myself, and won't stand for misleading behavior, especially so regarding important stuff like not ruining planes.
I don't want to see that cloud again.
Maybe the cast iron got to me'ead that day, luckily I came out of that anguish.
Some like myself might not have, so you'll have to believe I'm out for myself as good karma is an obligation to me.

I could imagine the same deal with someone spending every penny they had on stock, ,they might be deeply upset with themselves.
It's just someone with a similar brain to myself which is why I stoop so low.
Maybe I should just make some videos instead, like the lapping one which is a terrible watch, but I don't care, as it might just save someone out there.
Nothing to do with any "hobby horse" if you will.
That goes for a lot of folks, not just Sellars, but possibly its the long winded stories which gives folks false confidence to place all their faith in his approach regarding anything to do with planes, which may be why.

I'm still game for learning from anyone though, not too proud to be ignorant.



Rob D said:


> What other online woodworkers content, DVD’s, books would you recommend Tom?
> Someone here who has mostly followed Paul Sellers so far and had no clue how to even take a shaving with a hand plane a few years ago but who is always keen to improve.



If you're looking for something specifically to do with hand planing for free, then I'd suggest the *one single* particular Cosman video I've timestamped, and mentioned multiple times, has some hidden tips which tells all, if you can discount the rest
but there is other carp involved also, remember the guy has ten kids and sells tools.
Combine the useful bits regarding planing on the bench, and referencing off of it,
with Mr Charlesworth's videos and you can make sense of it easily.
Reference of the bench, good habits, stopped shavings, the principal of all things flat 
That covers pretty much everything you need...
until tearout is of concern, then it's over to Mr Weaver and I suggest no one else 
as most have got it wrong.
He will show you how a fine panel plane and smoother should be setup.
Everyone else is still in the dark about this.
One has to discount everything they have learned regarding anyone else and read the woodcentral and watch his utubes regarding the cap iron.
This has everything to do with the plane setup and make one realize the red herrings of many.
Going back to hand planing, and not the proper setup of the plane...
You could buy Charlesworth's videos on the matter, the one at a show was a damn good watch, and I learned a heckuva lot overnight, without even picking up a hand plane.
Trouble is, if you buy something, then you fall into a hole of "getting your moneys worth" and likely wouldn't progress near as quickly with total honesty and unbiased attitude.
Charlesworth's planing technique videos won't see you wrong,
the worst that will likely happen is one will get fed up with tearout and progress afterwards.
No bothers, as at least you will have honesty and the stock will actually be accurately planed by then, rather than still on some pathetic drip feed system from whomever else who is selling videos, trying to find out why ones planing ain't going so well.

Thats my flat bench rant over .
Happy to get slated, I don't take offense, call me what ye like and I'll still say hello.

Suppose I could just rip off/ parrot Charlesworth's stuff and stick it up on youtube,
That would be a heck of a lot more distasteful in my eyes than slating anyone.
They say copying is the ultimate compliment,
and I could even add my own bit, from what I've learned from David, so it wouldn't be
total content thievery, and one more thing regarding the crowned bench (1/64" over 7 foot) a hard lesson which may be in another of his videos?

It seems to me no-one on earth could explain something like Charlesworth did,
even though I could do it silently but it doesn't sit well for me TBH.
Be like ripping off music, that's how well Charlesworth spoke.

Maybe I'll rope in some slave young fella, and make him do the work instead.
I just made a pointer today so could be like a teacher of olde.
Back of the hand kinda deal, lol.


Still ranting about my hobby horse.
Regarding some other woodwork, another departed master was Mr Phil Lowe.
Look up on youtube "The art of woodworking" series.
I think it was produced by a TV crowd.
Beware some waterstones are used, but you can skip those bits.

Forums are likely better for what you wish to know for the next month's work, 
as you can get referrals to utubes if you need, without glazing over,
but more importantly get the results you're after _without getting sucked into buying tools which you could be getting for a song instead._
Some of the tidiest workers will have you believe you need it all, 
There's a cheap _old _tool for everything which can be made to work equally well or better 99% of the time, this is where the forums comes into play when looking for the alternative from someone honest.



Betcha won't ask me anything again, lol.
Most write shorter messages than I.

All the best
Tom

Now, time for me to get a good dollop of abuse, since I dished out a fair bit!


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## Seascaper (9 Aug 2022)

Jonm said:


> I have done something similar but the one I bought is not to your high standard and is still not properly set up. However it was very local, came with a record 52 1/2 QR vice and a fortis engineers vice. £50 FB Marketplace. workbenches come up regularly on eBay and similar so it is one way to get a workbench and possibly cheaper than the cost of the wood. Photo below of mine is from the advert.View attachment 141266


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## Adam W. (9 Aug 2022)

I'm going to fess up to never having watched a David Charlesworth video.


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## Seascaper (9 Aug 2022)

Jonm said:


> I have done something similar but the one I bought is not to your high standard and is still not properly set up. However it was very local, came with a record 52 1/2 QR vice and a fortis engineers vice. £50 FB Marketplace. workbenches come up regularly on eBay and similar so it is one way to get a workbench and possibly cheaper than the cost of the wood. Photo below of mine is from the advert.View attachment 141266



My first decent workbench which I still use regularly came from a local farm sale. It is almost 8ft long and came fitted with a Record metal quick release woodworkers vice fitted. I have added a metalworkers vice. It is a very sturdy bit of kit which I now keep outside and have a metal sheet I place on top when welding. I have had it for over 25 years and got it for a £1 bid........


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## thetyreman (9 Aug 2022)

cosman desperately wants to be david charlesworth or alan peters but he doesn't have the skill level, he's more interested in selling you his snake oil tools, do you enjoy being pitched to? where you feel like you're being cornered within the first 30 seconds of a free youtube video? that doesn't work for me, I simply can't stand the guy, and genuinely can't watch his videos, he is too in love with himself.


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## thetyreman (9 Aug 2022)

John Brown said:


> I can't get my head round the level of vitriol PS arouses in some people. When I've watched him, I just see some old guy trying to encourage beginners. Never seems to push branded tools...
> Mind you, I've never watched any of his paid for stuff, maybe that's a different kettle of fish.



I have made many projects on his paid for woodworkingmasterclasses.com website and learnt a lot from all the projects I've done, they are much more advanced than many of the free youtube videos, and what's good about it is he eventually makes them free, but you can only see them on the website. p.s the keepsake box project is particularly challenging, but very rewarding.


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## CMax (9 Aug 2022)

thetyreman said:


> cosman desperately wants to be david charlesworth or alan peters but he doesn't have the skill level, he's more interested in selling you his snake oil tools, do you enjoy being pitched to? where you feel like you're being cornered within the first 30 seconds of a free youtube video? that doesn't work for me, I simply can't stand the guy, and genuinely can't watch his videos, he is too in love with himself.


I have a like-dislike relationship with Cosman's videos. I find him quite smug at times, but there are a number of videos of his I've learned a lot from. Yes, his business is to sell educational material and tools, and that comes first, but I find that if I skip over that, there's plenty for me, personally, to learn. I especially liked his recent dovetail video. That had a few tips easily demonstrated that I'm hoping to use in my next project.

The biggest issue with YouTube (on almost any topic) is that the days of sharing information for the sake of sharing have mostly--not all--gone, replaced by the desire for it to be one's job, or at the very least, a significant secondary income.

Any time money comes into things, a conflict is introduced. I think many channels do a good job navigating this; oddly, the ones that are the most upfront about it. It's the sneaky ones that bother me, the ones that conveniently leave out the real info, usually hinted at by their video title and thumbnail, in order to 'upsell' you on something or another.

I have no issue with anyone making a living. It's honesty that matters. For example, I like 'John Heisz - I Build It' channel. The projects he features are mostly to sell the plans for said project, but in the videos, he doesn't leave anything out. It makes me want to buy his plans to support him because of this honesty (and I like his creative solutions).

@Ttrees - Who is Mr Weaver? I'd like to check out his videos as I've always had issues with tearout, mostly in the more exotic species.

Back on topic: having been let down by half a dozen timber suppliers; none of them able, or perhaps willing, to even quote my cutting list, I'm resorting to using C24 timber from a local supplier (who deliver) for my workbench, though I'm not using the Sellers design; I have no desire for a toolwell or bolts. Instead, I bought the video course for Richard Maquire's English Workbench (very inexpensive and thoroughly comprehensive).

@Samwise-thebrave - What did you go for in the end?


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## Ttrees (9 Aug 2022)

CMax said:


> @Ttrees - Who is Mr Weaver? I'd like to check out his videos as I've always had issues with tearout, mostly in the more exotic species.


He's the toolmaker on here.
Look up David W on youtube, after the woodcentral article, and provided you have learned how to plane well without all the bad habits...

No work deflecting in a vise, planing on the benchtop is so much more precise 
and teaches one flat.

No planing 90 degrees to the grain, for many many reasons,
Most importantly is that the far edge is to be referenced off,
and chamfering the far edge makes it difficult to see where the wood is in contact with the bench.
It's going against everything which Charlesworth mentions regarding any flat surface.
(note Cosman mentions the edges on that video I mentioned,
but tries to baffle folks by ignorantly/_or otherwise_.....?????? (I've seen the original before),
using a plane one doesn't need or want for the job, and destroying the important far edge of the work.

That is a really really easy peasy way to attain a flat surface, i.e dimensioning.
Take note no dogs or anything trapping/deflecting the work,
that's bad habits which bend the timber, making one pretend they know better than 
the tool for the job 
(much like setting up a surface planer intentionally outta whack)

Trust both David's and you will never have an issue with tearout whilst planing again.
No tricks or silly things needed, every timber becomes the same as riven stock with no runout, no skewing or other pretending.
Really easy, anything else is foolish.

The plane has to be set up exactly like David mentions, add you're own flavour and it won't work, so...
No tight mouth,
Steep cap iron edge, at least @50 or more degrees, the steeper it is the further it can be set away from the edge.
A fine panel and a smoother required with cap iron influence, cannot get away with one.

This is page 2 of planing after Charlesworth's page 1
Nothing compares to this for fine or efficient planing.

Easy peasy, and the most challenging part to all this is achieving perfect camber
which is a different ball game to those who don't use those planes like they were intended.

Anything lesser (i.e pretending) back in the day (where folks didn't have machines) and the apprentice would'a got a good kick up the @r5e.

Tom


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## thetyreman (9 Aug 2022)

don't trust this nutter...


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## Ttrees (9 Aug 2022)

Trust the bench instead!


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## CMax (9 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> He's the toolmaker on here.
> Look up David W on youtube, after the woodcentral article, and provided you have learned how to plane well without all the bad habits...


Gotcha... thanks, I'll check out his YT channel.


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## Adam W. (9 Aug 2022)

Ttrees said:


> Trust the bench instead!



Feel the force Padawan.


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## John Brown (9 Aug 2022)

So there you have it. It's totally irrelevant what wood you use, because you shouldn't be watching Paul Sellers anyway, as he can't use a plane without pretending, and he's not honest.


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## Adam W. (9 Aug 2022)

Q.E.D.


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## Jameshow (9 Aug 2022)

John Brown said:


> So there you have it. It's totally irrelevant what wood you use, because you shouldn't be watching Paul Sellers anyway, as he can't use a plane without pretending, and he's not honest.



If you have been watching PS, RC, naked attraction or love island go and stand in the corner.. !


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