# Source for 1-1/4" x 8tpi nuts



## Woodmonkey (6 May 2014)

Anyone know where I can find nuts as in the title (and washers)…?
Thanks


----------



## jpt (6 May 2014)

These people http://www.sterlingbolt.co.uk/ I have never known them not being able to get any size so worth an email.

john


----------



## J-G (6 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":nkow14o3 said:


> Anyone know where I can find nuts as in the title (and washers)…?
> Thanks


8 tpi on a 1¼" is non-standard so I suspect that you will need to have them specially made.

As JPT suggests, Sterling may well be in a position to source them but you will need to specify the thread form and 'full' or 'half' nut as well as the O/D and TPI. Washers are no problem at all, they would simply be made by drilling/boring a 1-3/8" hole in 2½" bar and parting off at 0.165" thick.

If it is an American Unified form (60°) then it would fall in to the 'uniform pitch' series but even then it is a 'non-preferred' size.

Should you only need one or two then it may be cheaper to find a local small engineering shop.

JG


----------



## Woodmonkey (6 May 2014)

It's the thread on a nova lathe, strange they should use a non standard size...think teknatool might be Australian or kiwis maybe it's normal over there


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":341ng5pn said:


> It's the thread on a nova lathe, strange they should use a non standard size...think teknatool might be Australian or kiwis maybe it's normal over there



Not strange at all - 'proprietory' is the name of the game -

It's not a 'bolt' that others need to fit their nuts to so they can make it whatever size they deem appropriate - and charge whatever they like for a mating component (chuck - faceplate . . . )

The 1-1/8" x 12, 7/8 x 16, 1 x 10, 1½ x 8, 1¼ x 9 and 33mm x 3.5mm are all non standard but are offered by Axi for their SK114 Chuck. The larger Record Power lathes also have 1-1/4 x 8 - it still doesn't make it 'Standard' as far as thread systems go.

It now intrigues me why you would want a 'nut' to fit your lathe 'nose'.

JG


----------



## gregmcateer (7 May 2014)

WM,

I think I know why you're interested!! Could it be that you're thinking of making up some different sized vacuum chucks without having to buy lots of faceplates?

I'll have a trawl as well - if you find somewhere, I'd be happy to share a reasonable cost for some of a batch.

Greg


----------



## Spindle (7 May 2014)

Hi

1 1/4" x 8 TPI is an extra fine unified thread - may help in your searches.

Regards Mick


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

Yep Greg's got it. By welding a washer to the nut that can then be glued into an appropriately sized disc of MDF with a few screws through the washer I can make up a few different sized vacuum chucks without having my face plate tied up.


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Spindle":2u77c1j6 said:


> Hi
> 1 1/4" x 8 TPI is an extra fine unified thread - may help in your searches.


Sorry Mick, 

First - There isn't a standard called 'Extra Fine Unified' 
Second - 1¼ UNF (the fine series) is 12 tpi - so 8 tpi can't possibly be described as 'Extra Fine' 

In the UNC series 1¼ is 7 tpi.

Assuming a 60° form (I have no reason to doubt that) then at best 1¼ x 8 would be designated UNS (S=Special) though as I said before it falls into the 8-UN series.

I've just checked three of the tool suppliers I use and only one of them lists a 1¼x8 Tap - and they suggest it is only suitable for tapping into wood for directly screwing on to the lathe nose. I read this as it being carbon steel rather than HSS and at £23·40 that seems to confirm it.

Whilst I've been researching and writing this post Woodmonkey has confirmed that he want's to make some face-plates for vacuum chucks so I'll sketch something up that could be made from Alum (the Carbon Steel tap would be OK for that) - the idea of welding a washer to a nut might only be an option if the nuts could be obtained 'off the shelf' at a low cost. 

JG


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

Thanks JG, who knew the world of nuts was so complex? There was me thinking it was just either metric or imperial....

Tapping a thread directly into some hardwood could work too?


----------



## CHJ (7 May 2014)

If I was going to make anything to fit the nose of the lathe and carry turning loads I'd use an ISO chuck backplate, machined for the correct location on spindle register and running true and balanced.


----------



## YewTube (7 May 2014)

If you are desperate
http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/...Nuts?navid=12108864#navid=12108864+4287829431

Bill


----------



## Grahamshed (7 May 2014)

Totally off topic but that is a clever user name you have there Yewtube


----------



## Vic Perrin (7 May 2014)

I don't know what import duties on these would be but they might do the job that you want ?

http://www.wbnoble.com/wood_turning/fac ... plates.htm

Vic


----------



## Spindle (7 May 2014)

J-G":fdsqbhy5 said:


> Sorry Mick,
> 
> First - There isn't a standard called 'Extra Fine Unified'
> Second - 1¼ UNF (the fine series) is 12 tpi - so 8 tpi can't possibly be described as 'Extra Fine'



Doh #-o #-o 

Too early in the morning  

50% - 50%

There is a thread standard 'Extra Fine Unified':

http://www.gewinde-normen.de/en/unified ... hread.html

However it's *18 TPI *  

Sorry for misleading the thread

Regards Mick


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":3u145mbj said:


> Thanks JG, who knew the world of nuts was so complex? There was me thinking it was just either metric or imperial....



In a former life I was in charge of all threading equipment sold to export by Herbert Small Tools - and still use the knowledge I gained there every day!!



Woodmonkey":3u145mbj said:


> Tapping a thread directly into some hardwood could work too?


Buying a tap from http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/WOOD ... _TAPS.html may well be the cheapest option. Once you have that you could make as many as you need and replace them should the thread wear out.

I did start to sketch up something but the posts from Vic Perrin and YewTube take the wind out of those sails  there is no way that a small batch of special items could be made at anywhere near $10 each. I would agree with CHJ on his point about 'balance' but the wooden option might address that.

JG


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Spindle":35p8augg said:


> J-G":35p8augg said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry Mick,
> ...



I should have said 'There isn't an American Standard'  

What the :!: :!: are the Germans doing listing a standard for American threads :?: 

I wasn't aware of the ANSI 'Standard' B1.1 - I now see that it was published 1/1/2003 and revised 2008.

JG


----------



## gregmcateer (7 May 2014)

J-G":27rkjs5l said:


> Woodmonkey":27rkjs5l said:
> 
> 
> > Tapping a thread directly into some hardwood could work too?
> ...



JG
So a hardwood faceplate with a thread tapped in may be OK for Wood monkey's idea, (which I plan to shamelessly copy, if OK with him), to make some vacuum chucks for foot finishing?

Is there an opinion as to the most appropriate wood to use, gents?

TIA

Greg


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

gregmcateer":20s5z8v0 said:


> J-G":20s5z8v0 said:
> 
> 
> > Buying a tap may well be the cheapest option.
> ...


I wouldn't go so far as to say it is ideal and I think that you should take great care to not over-tighten when mounting the faceplate but it should work.

I've been successful in tapping smaller threads (M8-M10) into Oak and Teak.

JG


----------



## Spindle (7 May 2014)

Hi

I've had success in threading beech to 1" but I'd have my reservations with regard to doing it to a faceplate - I'd be a little concerned at the tightening forces exerted by inertia when starting the lathe with work installed. No reason not to go ahead but keep an eye on the condition of the thread in use.

Another consideration would be to insert a thread of lignum vitae or some other very dense hardwood into the face plate

Regards Mick


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

In his video on my vacuum chuck thread Bob shows his home made face plates with wood threads, he used "hard maple"


----------



## Phil Pascoe (7 May 2014)

:idea: You could soak the threads with wood hardener as sold for decaying wood, then wax. That could give a quite hard thread.


----------



## gregmcateer (7 May 2014)

This is getting excitinger and excitinger!

Would you suggest making wooden 'nuts' with the wood in faceplate or spindle orientation?

An should they probably be 'long' - ie when done up, go right to the back of the spindle?

TIA

Greg


----------



## jpt (7 May 2014)

An easier way is to buy a spindle tap, http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Chucks_ ... SpindleTap

They are no good for heavy work but then neither is the method you were thinking off, best £15 I have ever spent on a lathe tool. 
John


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

Aren't they they same as what JG linked to in earlier post?


----------



## bobham (7 May 2014)

I use the Beall spindle tap for most of my vacuum chucks. It works very well and I have found that threads cut in hardwood seem to be quite durable. I usually make a hardwood disk which gets bored and tapped and then mount a disk of melamine coated particle board to the face of it for sticking my gasket material to. I did do a couple of videos on using the spindle tap. This series shows using it in end grain: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... BB9F975C89

This video shows making a small chuck for my outside lathe using the 1" x 8 tpi version of the tap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qm5GTFUQsy4

The best threads can be made in the fine grained woods like maple, cherry, birch, etc. Coarse grained woods like oak and ash may not thread as well, although I have done it successfully in a pinch. I actually have one chuck that is made from a pine disk threaded for my spindle.

Take care
Bob


----------



## jpt (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":358nigp1 said:


> Aren't they they same as what JG linked to in earlier post?




I missed that one sorry  yes same thing different make.

john


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":2jg05txd said:


> Aren't they they same as what JG linked to in earlier post?


Pretty much - the difference is that from The Toolpost they are short - only 4 full threads - and cost £24.86 inc VAT & Carriage whereas from RDG they are full length (about 15 full threads) and cost £23.40 delivered.


----------



## Spindle (7 May 2014)

gregmcateer":3arhmwh6 said:


> Would you suggest making wooden 'nuts' with the wood in faceplate or spindle orientation?



Hi

I'd go for faceplate orientation - top hat section let into disc to form a face plate:







Regards Mick


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

It's suggested on the site selling the taps that laminating a few layers of hardwood together with alternating grain direction will produce the strongest thread.


----------



## bobham (7 May 2014)

The instructions with the Beall spindle tap recommend only tapping face grain. Tapping into end grain will not yield as strong a thread, and depending on the wood may not yield any threads at all.  I reinforce my threads with thin CA glue after cutting the treads and then run the tap in one more time to cut away any excess glue. Seasonal wood movement may make the treads quite tight on the spindle as the seasons change but running the tap through them again if they tighten up eases the fit again.

I can't see any reason to make the faceplate using the "top hat" configuration suggested above. I bore and tap a hardwood disk and then glue and screw a plywood, mdf, or melamine disk directly to the face of it after truing it up. 

Good Luck!
Bob


----------



## gregmcateer (7 May 2014)

Bob, Mick, J-G et al,

Many thanks for all the time you have taken explaining the niceties of this. I really appreciate your knowledge and generous sharing of it - and I am sure WoodMonkey does too. I was beginning to add up the costs of all the faceplates, etc I was going to have to buy and getting cold feet. Now I know it's possible to self-tap, it's a go-er.

Cheers,

Greg


----------



## gregmcateer (7 May 2014)

Sorry to be a pain again, but should the tapped hardwood be 'long' - ie when done up, go right to the back of the spindle?

TIA

Greg


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

Just noticed that the tap wrench on jg's site to hold that size tap is over £40! Is there another cheaper way of holding it? Pair of mole grips?


----------



## CHJ (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":1zuoe6aw said:


> Just noticed that the tap wrench on jg's site to hold that size tap is over £40! Is there another cheaper way of holding it? Pair of mole grips?


Make your own, only need to file a square hole in a metal bar or even some good hardwood for that matter.


----------



## J-G (7 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":38dwhefm said:


> Just noticed that the tap wrench on jg's site to hold that size tap is over £40! Is there another cheaper way of holding it? Pair of mole grips?


Ahhh !

Since I have all the basic engineering hand tools already, it didn't occur to me that you might need a wrench  

In all probability you could use a spanner (or two) if you have them - but as CHJ suggests make a wrench from a hardwood off-cut, or probably better still, two 150mm lengths of 10mm square steel bar with two screws (one each side of the tap). The amount of torque needed to cut this thread will be relatively low so the strength of the cast steel body isn't needed.

I would concur that cutting into end-grain is a no-no and the idea of 'layering' three thicknesses is very good. I would definitely make the 'nut' long enough to reach the back of the lathe nose.

JG


----------



## Woodmonkey (7 May 2014)

Ok thanks chaps, you are a useful bunch


----------



## Duncan A (8 May 2014)

Sorry, going off thread here slightly.. In case anyone is considering a similar project with a M33 x 3.5mm lathe, it is worth noting that a nut of this size should be relatively easy to source as M33 x 3.5 is a standard Metric Coarse thread. In fact, a similar discussion to this one was on the AWGB forum almost exactly two years ago, but looking for M33 x 3.5mm nuts. (not sure if I'm allowed to post a link).

sterlingbolt.co.uk may well do them, but I can't see their website properly at the moment, so can't be sure.

Duncan


----------



## gregmcateer (8 May 2014)

Woodmonkey":8hmzssj0 said:


> Ok thanks chaps, you are a useful bunch



Ditto to that! =D>


----------



## bobham (8 May 2014)

Hi:
For tapping the hole you need to have the tap aligned exactly with the hole. The easiest way to do that that I know of is to mount the wood on the lathe, bore the hole using a Jacobs chuck in the tailstock, then switch back to your live center and seat the point of the live center in the dimple in the end of the tap with the cutting end of the tap started in the hole. Lock the headstock spindle of the lathe so the workpiece can't rotate and then use any wrench that will fit the squared section of the tap (a crescent wrench works well) to turn the tap into the hole, cranking in on the tailstock ram at the same time to keep the point engaged in the dimple which keeps the tap aligned with the hole. When I want to back the tap out of the hole I usually just unlock the tailstock so it can be pushed back along the lathe bed as the tap threads out. It is unlikely that the tailstock ram thread is anywhere close to the same as the thread you are cutting, so it would be extremely difficult to co-ordinate backing out the ram and backing out the tap while keeping the center point engaged. In the video I linked to I moved the tailstock away when I was backing the tap out, but that is not really a very good practice since it would be easy to mess up the threads while backing the tap out. 

Greg, yes, you want the wood to thread completely on and seat against the shoulder at the base of the spindle thread since that is what squares it up, just like chucks and faceplates. In most cases that means you need to cut a relief at the hole entrance since most spindles won't be threaded all the way to the shoulder. At the same time I am cutting the relief I also square up the face of the threaded piece and take away material from the outer areas of the face that might rub against the front of the headstock, leaving a raised boss around the threaded hole 1/4" to 3/8" wide to seat on the spindle shoulder.

Take care
Bob


----------



## gregmcateer (8 May 2014)

Bob,

Great clear instructions, thank you


----------



## Robbo3 (8 May 2014)

All your questions answered in the two Beal tap videos. the third video is similar & the last one is making your own threaded faceplates.

Beal Tap parts 1 & 2
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE-OtSzoneU
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3PoLaJUjow
Sistermaide - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff7pR1C_RIQ
Faceplates - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BNZUSOeaLk


----------



## gregmcateer (12 May 2014)

The tap and bearing have arrived - WooHoo!!

Now, what wood should I use for threading?

I've got loads of green stuff, which obviously would be pants for this.

Seasoned, I have some 40mm deep oak worktop, some cherry, some plywood and probably some iroko / other windowsill leftovers.

TIA

Greg


----------



## bobham (13 May 2014)

Hi, Greg:
Fine grained woods like maple, birch, cherry, sycamore, etc. would be preferred. Coarse grained woods like oak and ash may not take threads as well, although I have used both successfully. For that matter, I have used pine and spruce successfully, not that I would use them in a high stress situation.

Good Luck!
Bob


----------



## gregmcateer (13 May 2014)

Cheers Bob.
When life's demands allow, I'll give it a go and post up the results.
Greg


----------



## Phil Pascoe (13 May 2014)

Bob forgot beech, which takes threads well.


----------



## gregmcateer (13 May 2014)

Bob, Phil,

Many thanks. At the moment, I seem to have an almost limitless beech supply - just gotta let it dry!

Greg


----------



## chipmunk (13 May 2014)

Hopefully I'm not teaching my Grandmother but did you see this...

http://www.davidreedsmith.com/Articles/WoodenFaceplate/WoodenFaceplates.htm

HTH
Jon


----------



## gregmcateer (13 May 2014)

Jon,

That is very helpful - nice and clear and the eggs should now be suckable !!

Thanks very much

Greg


----------

