# Articulated Hollowing Rig



## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

A while back I bought the following rig from the US.

http://monster-lathe-tools.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=262&category_id=63

I have been having a go now and then with both the supplied tools and my own hollowers attached in a temporary manner. The Keltons seem to be the most promising at present but they all work. I will need to have some mods made to make use of some of the tools which have been de-handled.

Anyway the rig is brilliant to use and I have posted a vid showing various tools in use on my new Blog


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## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

Can't see why the links do not work!


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## loz (28 Jan 2011)

Philip Streeting":2o26esoo said:


> A while back I bought the following rig from the US.
> 
> http://monster-lathe-tools.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=262&category_id=63
> 
> ...



I have no idea either Phil - But looks ok when quoted.

Laurence


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## myturn (28 Jan 2011)

Philip Streeting":2bvskn58 said:


> Can't see why the links do not work!


Do you have bbcode disabled in your profile perhaps, or did you disable it when you created the post?

Good video.

I have a few questions for you:

Where did you get the light that moved with the hollower?

Do you use the laser attachment?

Does the hollowing rig take hollowers of different shaft diameters? 
I have a Munro and Woodcut Flexi and I'm wondering if the arm will take the smaller Woodcut.

Do you see any reason why the rig can't be used outboard?
I get back-ache leaning over the bed and am looking for a new lathe with swivel head specifically for this. (I don't have the room to work from the end of the bed).

thanks

Mick


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## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

TY BB code was disabled.


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## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

Mick,

The light is a cheapo IKEA low voltage clip on LED type work light. I also have a flexible battery driven version from EBay. I have been using the rig with the headstock swivelled but I'm yet to discover the ideal position for the rig to get a smooth action. Some of the clips were taken with the head swivelled - I couldn't be bothered at the time to keep swapping the position of the rig, accurately, on the bed and the position of the arm either side of the bed - if that makes sense - when swapping between tool types and shaft lengths.

As far as fitting alternative tools is concerned sleeves or turning tool shafts down to fit the existing fitting would be the answer I guess.

Main benefits I can gauge so far is hollowing can be easily achieved for those with grip, shakes, low strength and bad back problems. I don't have or want to have the time to acquire the instinctive approach to hollowing and tool control. This method short circuits the learning curve and with little possibility of catches etc when set up properly - you can just concentrate on shapes without the nervous tension involved with the instictive method.

The laser guide is great as well.

Phil


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## myturn (28 Jan 2011)

Phil,

I understand from what you are saying that the rig will not do anything I can't (hopefully) learn to do without it, but it will potentially make the hollowing process quicker, easier and less traumatic (for both me and the wood).

That's what I figured and I'll see how I get on with a swivelling head first.

I have a couple of articulated lights but something that moves with the tool would be a lot better as I find I am always in the way of the light. I tried a small torch on the hollower shaft inside the wood but that didn't work very well.

I can see the benefit of the laser as I am continually stopping the lathe to measure with calipers or, more dangerously, reaching in with my fingers while it's turning #-o 
I might look at just getting the laser attachment as that will always be useful and the rig can always be added later. 

thanks for the info


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## johnny.t. (28 Jan 2011)

Phil, that monster rig looks great, I'm so pleased you posted the video as I have a home made Jamieson type captured bar type rig and use my Munro tool in it, I was thinking I had to redesign it as it does vibrate a little but seeing you use your Munro in your rig I instantly heard the familiar sound! It looks like I need to make/get a different style of cutter.

Do you see any advantage of the articulated system over the captured bar type? I assume it would be even easier to 'steer' as you don't have the friction from the second toolrest. A very helpful video, thanks  

JT


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## Paul.J (28 Jan 2011)

*Johnny t wrote*


> I assume it would be even easier to 'steer' as you don't have the friction from the second toolrest. A very helpful video, thanks


You need to put some candlewax on the rests and the tool itself Johnny.
It does help a lot i found,especially when you are doing the finer finish cuts


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## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

I have never used fresh unseasoned wood - I always buy prepared blanks. Next short vid series will show my efforts with the rig to produce my first true hollow form. Might be interesting! Success or failure or something in between!

Phil


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## Richard Kennedy (28 Jan 2011)

Hi Phil

Great video I am impressed by the arms capabilities I was wondering about this type of thing for some ideas I have had whilst I can hollow out to a set thickness for the most part successfully this seems to offer a more chance of success.

How deep do you think you could go before loosing the control or getting chatter? 

Great to see you have a new Blog going!

Richard


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## Paul.J (28 Jan 2011)

If you have the know how you can make your own rig.
Take a look here


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## Philip Streeting (28 Jan 2011)

Hi Richard,

I seem to remember seeing a ratio somewhere for maximum depths that can be achieved/recommended. I think it was something like 12x (maybe 15x?) shaft diameter but from my limited experience the type or style of cutting tip may also play a part.

In the past when I knew nothing much about turning (still partially true) I managed to turn a 10" deep cylindrical vase shape with a 12" long 1/2" dia shaft tool where just the handle plus a bit was left outside the form. The form did fly off a couple of times but the adrenalin rush was great! After doing the basic hollowing I bought a Texan shaft and had a scraper made to fit to clean up the inside. This was learning (or not) by doing rather than by instruction.

I haven't yet done any deep hollowing with the rig but from limited hand held tool experiences the Munro seems to go deeper than some thicker shaft diameter tools. I think a hollowing specialist would be able to answer this question better than I. The large Keltons will also go deep but I've had regular catches with them probably because I haven't held the tools in the correct position (tucked into my side etc) to counteract the forces applied at the cutting point.

The advantage of this rig is the tool is held in a fixed postion on the centre line so the tip presentation is always the same each time you enter the form. You also rotate and fix the tool tip angle for optimum cutting postion i.e. heavy or light cuts. The laser offers an accurate indication of where you are inside the form. I do not know if all this applies to the captive gate style rig but my guess is it is probably much the same but the rig is probably designed for deeper hollowing than mine. 

Phil


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## skeetoids (29 Jan 2011)

Hi Phil,

Is there a possibility that you will be creating another piece in your fetish series? I find them all very challenging and inspiring in a number of ways and it would be great to be able to appreciate another of your contmeporary pieces from this series.

Also, did you ever progress with your last WIP piece on your previous forum? The bowl that had the large cut out sections.

Cheers,

Lee.


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## Philip Streeting (30 Jan 2011)

Hi Lee,

Thanks for your interest and yes I m still working on some pieces and will post them sometime. I am learning how to make some bronze and glass components to use with them and this takes some time to perfect. The bowl is still not completed but I may go back to it later - it was more an excercise in learning with a new carver and bits than a path to a finished piece. 

Good to see you are making progress with your turning.

Phil


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## Philip Streeting (30 Jan 2011)

Hi Lee,

Thanks for your interest and yes I m still working on some pieces and will post them sometime. I am learning how to make some bronze and glass components to use with them and this takes some time to perfect. The bowl is still not completed but I may go back to it later - it was more an excercise in learning with a new carver and bits than a path to a finished piece. 

Good to see you are making progress with your turning.

Phil


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## Philip Streeting (30 Jan 2011)

Second vid 

http://philipstreeting.blogspot.com/2011/01/monster-again.html


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## Richard Kennedy (30 Jan 2011)

Hi Phil Thanks for posting the vid Looks like the system is going to make hollowing easy for you. I guess the big advantage is having the tool set to cut so simply you can concentrate more of form and thickness etc I am thinking about investigating building a version You have sold me the idea!


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## Philip Streeting (31 Jan 2011)

Richard,

It is interesting to note you have been asking members on another Forum for help in ideas and sourcing materials to simulate this rig. Firstly your estimate of the cost of buying the Monster from the US is not the £300 you have suggested. There is a $100 post and packing fee and VAT plus a handling charge when it arrives here. The overall cost is approaching £450. 

If you want to make a rig the one suggested above would be an easier and less expensive prospect i.e. the Lyle Jamieson.

Phil


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## Paul.J (31 Jan 2011)

Plus you are using an 18mm/3/4" bar which can be increased to 1-1/8",both give less chatter than the other tools.
When Mike Swain showed me the LJ rig he also showed me a couple pieces of his work.They were vessels that were about 1.5mm thick.


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## Richard Kennedy (1 Feb 2011)

Phil you are right I forgot to add the tax and stuff! 

I had a look at the LJ system I assume thats the captive style rather than the articulated You are right again in that it looks the easier of the two to construct! Perhaps I will have to have a crack at both!

I use several forums some more than others its great to be able to reach a wide variety of people all with superb skills and experience that are far in excess of my knowledge. I really appreciate all the tips that I can gain from experienced woodworkers and in this instance engineers. I wish I had time to ask every question that rattles around in my head on every forum I am a member but sadly time gets in the way! 

I hope you are enjoying your Monster system I look forward to seeing some more fabulous hollow forms and ideas from you soon! 

Richard


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## rsser (2 Feb 2011)

Phillip, I'd be grateful if you could post some more info about your Ikea worklight.

Have tried some battery powered cheapie lasers on my Vicmarc rig and they don't come up to scratch.


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## jpt (2 Feb 2011)

HI Phil

Looks like you have been having fun, great videos I have them filed away for future reference. I have been wondering about a rig myself I just need to find a welder who isnt going to charge me the earth,

ERN, the lights are great I have several in the workshop on my pillar drill, bandsaw, etc they are cheap and work well http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/search/?query=jansjo

john


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## myturn (2 Feb 2011)

John,

Thanks for the link to the lights, I was interested in those too.

As for welding, there is very little if it is the articulated arm you are thinking of. All I can see is a bit holding the foot to the bed-clamp plate and the nuts at the top of the foot. Anyone with a welder could do that for you.
The rest is all nuts, bolts and screws (I think).


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## Richard Kennedy (2 Feb 2011)

Mick in addition to the items you mentioned you will need some thrust bearings to make the action smooth!


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## myturn (2 Feb 2011)

Richard Kennedy":2h3wtg8p said:


> Mick in addition to the items you mentioned you will need some thrust bearings to make the action smooth!


I know Rick, but they don't need welding! 8) 

You'll also need steel rod, flat bar and plate and a bit of box-section or round tube (I wouldn't make it in aluminium as you were considering) but all in all there is not a lot to it.

Even the machining is minimal, once the steel is cut to size it's just a matter of making some holes in it and bolting it all together! (Well, there may be a thread to cut depending on how you make it)


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## Richard Kennedy (2 Feb 2011)

Hmmm the welding aspect is interesting I don't know how to and I am not sure I know anyone who does! Will have to have a ring round a few pals see if they can help!


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## Philip Streeting (3 Feb 2011)

Thanks John for answering Ern's question on the IKEA light so promptly. I have been away for a few days so couldn't respond. The flexible goose neck style inspection light is just as/if not more useful for attaching to the lathe for viewing inside forms, bonus here would be battery lighting with no trailing wires.

Phil


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## Philip Streeting (9 Feb 2011)

I use seasoned or partially seasoned timber most of the time. Although I like the idea of working with green timber, I would not be able to think in terms of turning something now and waiting to finally turn or decorate some months later. So I tried the other extreme with this piece and the Rig, a well seasoned and dry piece of Oak. It was rock hard and the hollowing process was fairly slow. I used the Munro scraper to finish the inside - this worked very well. I am now happy with my purchase and will get various sized bits made to allow my other hollowing tools to be fitted and used. 3" dia x 7" deep.


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## gus3049 (20 Feb 2011)

My brother in law is now 82 years old. He recently had to take it easy for a few weeks after crashing his go-kart whilst racing.  

He is an ex design engineer, used to specialise in ocean going yachts but made lots of dosh being a consultant to big engineering firms.

I told him about the deep hollowing rig idea and gave him the link to the monster one.

He said (and I do apologise to those that have spent out and use it - please don't take this personally, he thinks Concorde was a bodge job) "its not very well engineered is it?"

So he is, as we speak, putting his considerable mind to the problem and designing a 'proper' one!!! I await his solution with bated breath. He is going to build it too!! He says the laser guidance system is a doddle so he'll include that of course. I will be surprised if it will need me involved at all.

I will post the result. Sadly, he is not too well at present so I hope this will occupy him and keep him going into his nineties at least.

Don't know how long it will take. Hope it happens!


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## skeetoids (20 Feb 2011)

Hi Phil,

This is a really interesting thread, it seems to me that perhaps there is enouh knowledge and resources for us all to make our own hollowing rig. Perhaps a rig designed and conceived by us all.

My Friend restores motorbikes in his spare time and has many contacts regarding welding, frame building, machine work etc. I will have a chat with him and see if he knows if any of his contacts can help.

It seems to me that if your happy spending £500 on a rig then it would be better to design your own for the same or less cash!?!?

Cheers,

Lee.


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## Philip Streeting (21 Feb 2011)

Hi Gordon and Lee,

Thanks for your contributions to the thread. 

It is always possible to take an existing idea and either copy or sometimes improve it. Before I purchased this rig I did a lot of research on the Web to discover other examples of similar but differently designed rigs. I looked also for user comments, compliments and criticisms of both the Monster and these other rigs and looked for both value for money and after sales reports. I could have purchased the Vicmarc version currently available in the UK.

As far as constructing versions - great and I wish you both well in your endeavours and the trial and error processes you will go through in order to get it to function the way you wish it to. I do not have an engineering background or access to anyone who has. I do know from having pieces made or modified by engineering businesses that it is a very expensive exercise if done using commercial sources.

I also do not have enough time in front of me to take on such a challenge or the desire to do so. By purchasing something with a track record and a good reputation I can be using and producing with it straightaway.

If the process of making fully functional, well engineered items is so easy why do we buy anything to do with turning tools and equipment? For example, it must be possible to make a Rolly Munro tool or the new Crown Hollower for less than the prices being quoted and many other items must be a doddle too if you don't take your time, materials, research and development into account. 

The people making these things we buy, like turners, have costs and hourly rates to recover in the sale price of the item. I for one do not resent paying for this.

Phil


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## gus3049 (21 Feb 2011)

Hi Phil,

I quite agree about this but..... the guy doing it IS a design engineer and one of the tops!

If it works out well, we might all be able to benefit from something just that bit better. This is all part of the ongoing process.

I wish I had the skill or the money to do it myself! In the meantime, I have to buy what is already out there and choose the best I can afford - like most people.


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