# Tiny home on wheels



## Dokkodo (4 Feb 2018)

Im planning to build a caravan/tiny house/shepherds hut over the summer. Its more in the style of the US 'tiny house' (although theirs are hardly ever anything even approaching tiny) than a shepherds hut, mainly in that I am going to live in it at least half of the time. 

Im having a custom trailer chassis made at 2.3 x 6m, which is close to the maximum allowable 2.5 x 7 but hopefully not so huge that on the rare occassion I need to move it it's totally impractical. It will come rated at 2500 kgs which means I can pull it with my van, but if I go over weight on the build I can get it re-plated to 3000 and use something/one else to move it.

So, currently my main concern is weight. It is basically going to be a well insulated shed on wheels, with stud walls, bolted down to the chassis. I would love to know if anyone (hello resident shed experts) has advice on the framing, insulation and cladding side of things, my experience in that sort of construction is limited. heres some questions.

Framing
Can I get away with a 3x2 frame, and how far apart can I go to save weight but retain strength? I guess I will want to put a good number of diagonals to brace it against the forces incurred in transit... 

Insulation
Are there different/better sorts of insulation for floor, walls and roof? I suppose the general rules are the same for a shed, in terms of the layers from external to internal cladding?

Any clever ideas for how to build up from the chassis of the trailer to the floor also appreciated.

Roof
I was going to build a rounded, traditional wagon style roof, but I think a single pitch is much more practical as its less work, gives more internal space and is easier to mount solar panels and skylights into. Im not that into the idea of roofing felt though, maybe onduline is a good idea. Any other suggestions welcome.

Cladding
I would really like to clad it externally in larch of maybe cedar, but it will total up to about 40m2 of timber. Would anyone be able to make an educated guess as to whether that's going to take up a huge amount of my final weight allowance?

So, its only all the crucial structural stuff I dont know about! But once that's done then I can do the fun bits inside, trying to be clever with the space. The other day i pulled out of a skip a pair of double glazed patio sliding doors and about a dozen or 15 double glazed wood framed windows in ok condition complete with furniture, and the day before that a family friend gave me a lovely old french wood burner, so thats a few quid saved.

Heres a couple of examples of much larger and more expensive projects and a few related websites for anyone interested:
http://www.jetsongreen.com/2015/11/off-the-grid-trailer-tiny-home.html
http://hiconsumption.com/2015/10/the-50000-diy-woody-trailer-home/
http://www.tinyhouseuk.co.uk/gallery.html
http://www.tinyhousebasics.com/

and ill attach some rough sketchups ive done playing with interior layout and looks, which I will be redrawing now that Ive had some more info from the trailer company and found all my windows, so any advice would be appreciated and worked in soon.

thanks in advance for any thoughts


----------



## marcros (4 Feb 2018)

I am watching the thread with interest, because I fancy a garden office. I had initially thought of a shepherds hut along the lines of the construction that you have mentioned. I am keen to avoid a "shed on wheels" look, but am only at the very early thought stage at the moment.


----------



## Brandlin (4 Feb 2018)

I've built a shed or two but I wouldn't consider myself an expert like many here. I'm very interested in what you have outlined here so will be following along - great of you to post!


----------



## Lons (4 Feb 2018)

Have you thought about buying a cheap twin axle caravan and cladding the outside, modding the inside? Would need to check the weight rating but some of the older ones were heavy unlike mine which is close to maximum size but rated at 1800kg


----------



## Dokkodo (5 Feb 2018)

Nice to hear there is interest, ill try and do a thorough WIP and take lots of pictures.

Im not exactly keen for the shed on wheels look either Marcros but its sort of unavoidable, i suppose you could call it a cabin on wheels?

I had considered going down the route of repurposing an existing caravan chassis, but as caravans tend to be made out of rubber bands and cardboard and polystyrene the chassi (plural of chassis?!) apparently dont come with high weight ratings, and it could take me a while to find one close to the right size.

There are other second hand trailers and flatbeds out there but it seems a bit of a minefield, getting the right size and rating and quality, and then second hand ones tend to hold their value if they are in good nick so I figured go new. It will be the foundations of my house after all...


----------



## Droogs (5 Feb 2018)

Great idea watching with interest. on the design front, personnaly i think the arched roof is more pleasing


----------



## CHJ (5 Feb 2018)

Domed Rolled metal profile roof is going to be significantly lighter due to natural stiffness of form requiring less support.

Flat roof using Onduline for instance will need sheeting or close rafter/stringer support to stop it sagging and will be heavier than metal in the first place.


----------



## Dokkodo (5 Feb 2018)

CHJ":1b6hn4x9 said:


> Domed Rolled metal profile roof is going to be significantly lighter due to natural stiffness of form requiring less support.



Good thinking, I will look into that as an option. With a domed roof, would one laminate ones curved rafters?

I agree with you also Droogs that a domed roof looks nicer from the outside, but theres not a clear winner to me yet, there are many factors...


----------



## MikeG. (5 Feb 2018)

I think I'd at least consider aluminium profiles as used by commercial dry wallers instead of timber in the walls. That will save a hell of a lot of weight. You might also look into the sandwich-products used to wall Tesco vans and the like, which are plastic-insulation-plastic, bonded together to form something extremely light and extremely strong. I hold a patent for something which required strong light base-boards, and used these in the prototype.......they're amazing. Ventilation is critical inside such a structure, and should be designed in at the earliest opportunity or you'll be dripping with damp and suffering mold.


----------



## Dokkodo (6 Feb 2018)

MikeG.":3i5p56gu said:


> I think I'd at least consider aluminium profiles as used by commercial dry wallers instead of timber in the walls. That will save a hell of a lot of weight. You might also look into the sandwich-products used to wall Tesco vans and the like, which are plastic-insulation-plastic, bonded together to form something extremely light and extremely strong. I hold a patent for something which required strong light base-boards, and used these in the prototype.......they're amazing. Ventilation is critical inside such a structure, and should be designed in at the earliest opportunity or you'll be dripping with damp and suffering mold.



I was hoping you would find this thread... 

I will look up aluminum profiles, I had sort of discounted them because (I assume) they don't give much structural strength, but maybe a combination would work, some timber framing with ali and plastic in between. Part of me is now imagining an oak timber frame but I think that would end up negating any and all other possible weight saving.

Would certainly like not to be soggy and mouldy so I will work that into the designs. Are plenty of opening windows enough?

thanks!


----------



## MikeG. (7 Feb 2018)

No, you'll need an extractor in the bathroom and kitchen.


----------



## Rorschach (7 Feb 2018)

Extractor for use in the summer (make sure there is a window on the opposite side to let fresh air in)

In the winter if you trying to keep heat in then you would be best with a dehumidifier, even a small domestic one will be many times overkill for a tiny home and will have no trouble keeping it dry while minimising your heat loss. 
If you are using a wood stove or some then this probably won't be necessary.


----------



## MusicMan (7 Feb 2018)

For the structure, you are more concerned with stiffness than with strength. As you say, caravans are built with very flimsy walls but still hold the roof up and the contents together. But they are floppy.

The sandwich structures mentioned are really excellent in this respect and can combine good insulation with high stiffness. Oak framing would be very heavy.

For a wood/plywood for internal fittings, poplar ply is about the lightest and comes in good quality. I got some good stuff from Avon Plywood of Bristol, who also have a CNC cut-to-shape service.

You do have a conflict on the roof style/shape if you want to introduce solar panels, which could be a very valuable part of the design. I would consider polycarbonate cellular material, bent into the gentle curved shape, and mount the panels directly beneath them inside the building. You'd lose a bit of efficiency from the absorption in the polycarbonate but not too much (they use them for greenhouses after all), and you would gain some solar thermal as well. Solar panels are about 20% efficient, and the rest emerges as heat. If it gets too hot you have the ventilators.

I freely admit this is armchair design, I haven't built one!

Keith


----------



## Lons (7 Feb 2018)

Actually modern caravans are a very different animal from the old ones with walls that were basically built around a jig using 1" square timber staple together and glued to internal hardboard sheet wth the aluminium outer skin being fitted later. ( I worked for ABI Caravans in the 70s ).

My 2017 Elddis Crusader Zephyr has walls which are very rigid and supplied to the manufacturer in a laminated sheet form which they cut on cnc machines in the factory. This sandwich of Aluminium / foam / ply is bonded and I recently examined some of them at the Elddis factory so it's an informed opinion.

I don't know if these or similar sheets are available outside the industry but if they can be found, could well offer the strength and lightweight desirable for this type of project. Strong, insulated and waterproof with very few fixings to rust or allow leaks.

No problem fixing cabinets to these walls !


----------



## Dokkodo (9 Feb 2018)

Appreciate all the advice everyone, feels like cheating getting all these pearls of wisdom for free.

In terms of heating and ventilation, I'm going to have lots of windows and a double sliding patio door and a barn door, so i dont imagine itll be much of a problem in the summer. In winter I will have a wood burner going some of the time, but presumably that'll steam everything up, especially if im cooking on it (getting one with an oven and backboiler which is exciting) so a dehumidifier sounds good. Its going to be pretty open plan and cabiney, kitchen at one end, no toilet (compost WC cabin outside), so maybe an extra vent at the kitchen end.

Really great to hear about those specialist materials, ill do a bit of research and see if I can find anything. Id still like the timber cladding really, though having had a look at this:http://www.metalline.co.uk/product/ultima-insulated-aluminium-composite-panels, maybe a silvery finish might be quite cool, like an airstream, or a spaceship....

The roof is still a tossup. Im yet to find a product thats suitably enticing.

thanks again


----------



## Rorschach (9 Feb 2018)

Woodburners produce a nice dry heat and a in a small space a large surplus of it so you will likely have a vent or window open most of the time for cooling and of course for a fresh air for the fire. You may well find you don't need the dehumidifier but I would still allow a good spot for it in your plans just in case.


----------



## Dokkodo (21 Dec 2018)

Me again, dredging this one up because I have commissioned and received a shiny new trailer chassis, been hoarding special bits and pieces, I have made a bit more progress on the design and am hoping to start and get the outer shell done over the spring months, any more thoughts much appreciated as i am still improvising somewhat...

its no longer so traditional, in fact quite boaty now, i rejected curves and instead went with angles. simpler and more space efficient. these are old layouts and ive made brought the roof down a foot, but you get the idea:






I did a bit of research into the various composite panels mentioned but I struggled to find just the right thing, or in sensible quantities, and think I might have come up with a method that should be relatively quick, light and robust, and be more efficient because of the weird shapes.

My plan is to use reclaimed roofing 2x4s, i have a good source and they can look nice with a bit of TLC, bit of character, to provide a main framework, incorporating apertures for doors and windows. These will be oriented so that they protrude internally.






Then im thinking ill frame between 2x4 sections with 2x1 treated batten, and have these spaces spray-insulated once the exterior cladding is on. a couple i know who have been travelling and living in a beautifully converted truck for a few years recently had their insulation redone this way and strongly recommended it, wonder whether anyone else has experience? apparently it negates the need for a membrane but i cant remember if this is correct.






this layer of batten and insulation will be 50mm thick ish, so the 2x4s will still produce a couple of inches, giving an exposed-frame feeling inside, which I like. I will then clad the internal spaces with thin birch/other nice ply.

I have three main areas of contention: 

the floor: my trailer chassis is just the bare frame currently. Im not sure of the best way to fix the main frame down around the edges, which is obviously a pretty major thing! A treated timber floor plate going all the way along, fixed up into the posts before being bolted down? 

Then there is the order to layer the flooring in. I have guessed at something like this:






the outer cladding: what, if anything needs to go between the internal wooden framing and the outer cladding. Should I have a sheet layer, batten out and leave an air gap, which sounds like it would cause a bit of a pain around doors and windows. Or maybe a sheet and layer of membrane. It seems incorrect that the other cladding would be fixed directly to the main 2x4s with nothing in between. Also, whatever this first layer of exterior cladding is, will be what the interior spray insulation is gettting sprayed up against.

The roof: Havent really got this far, but I think Ill be going with corrugated steel sheet to keep weight down. however, im not sure how heavy duty the roof frame would need to be, or how to layer this up at all really, and I would love to be able to have a big skylight and decent solar rig. 

Also, Im slightly worried that so far there isnt much bracing across the width of the structure, which will have to be done at the top, though im pretty sure lengthways once its all built up and clad it should be plenty rigid. 

Sorry, thats a lot of questions, but any insights here and there much appreciated.

heres a more developed but still rough idea of what im going for, still playing with furniture etc... all rights reserved











the four gaps in the framework are timber double glazed window units ive already got, a barn door by the kitchen and double glazed patio doors opposite the sofa. im hoping itll end up somewhere with nice rural views.

NB - I have about 1900 kgs of weight allowance on top of the chassis weight of 600 kgs before i can no longer tow it with my current vehicle, so thats something im trying to bear in mind...


----------



## MikeG. (21 Dec 2018)

4x2s are going to be very heavy. I would certainly not be going that route. I'd use this stuff if framing rather than building a monocoque.


----------



## Lons (21 Dec 2018)

What Mike said.

What is the maximum permitted gross weight of your chassis? Remember that includes the chassis weight itself also and that you need to allow a reasonable allowance for personal items, gas, water etc., you might be surprised how they add up unless you're an experienced caravanner in which case my apologies for stating the obvious. The wheels / tyres will also have a maximum loading.
You've probably already looked up the legal requirements and regs regarding MTPLM and GVW

All this assuming you're actually going to tow it in which case you need to go to a weighbridge and have it officially plated. You will also need to plan your construction very carefully to achieve an acceptable noseweight. Too low ( tail heavy ) is almost not towable and too high will be dangerous also and almost certainly void your tow vehicle warranty and insurance.

You may in any event have difficulty insuring it and your tow vehicle insurers will require some sort of professional certification.

Not trying to pour cold water on the project which looks great, I'd love to do it myself tbh.


----------



## Dokkodo (21 Dec 2018)

I had thought that about the 2x4s, but couldn't imagine them adding more than a 150/200kg overall and thought the structural and aesthetic benefits were worth it... But I will do some maths and consider my options. 

If I were to follow the same construction method without them then can I infer a monocoque version would be rigid enough? By guesstimation it would seem so, as this is what mass produced caravans are essentially... 

Max permitted gross weight of chassis is 3500kg. Chassis weighs about 650kg. Max tow capacity of my vehicle is 2500kg, so id like to keep it below that and get it plated as such if possible, but if that isn't possible its not the end of the world, I just wont be able to move it without paying someone else to do it, but that will be infrequent. It isnt going to be moving regularly or going touring or anything, the idea is to move every year or few years depending on what nice living situations arise. Got a network of off grid friends and connections, might end up in wales for instance in a few years, where all that is much easier.

The director of the company who made the chassis was very helpful, having made a few tiny home chassis already. He offered to get it plated as it came, but advised that I take it away, build the main structure and then get it plated as a box trailer at the ideal weight bracket (2500kg), to avoid any future confusion if I were ever to be pulled over and it was listed as 3500kg flatbed. So currently, as it is a work in progress, its a bit of a grey area, though I need to get my towing license if I am to be able to move it myself (much more) with my van.

During my initial phase of research a few months ago I did indeed totally bend my mind with all the rules and regulations and laws and outdated conflicting opinions online. I think I have boiled it down to <2500kg total = I can tow it, with license extension.

As I do a costing spreadsheet I am also keeping tabs on component weights as they add up so that will hopefully give me a rough idea.

I didnt know about nose and tail weight though, so thanks for that. Kitchen was going up the front end with bed and living space at the back, relatively little actually in the middle section. So I will perhaps try and plan to keep battery banks/water storage etc in this area to balance things out.

I also recently got a real bargain on a load of oak parquet flooring from a local 1920s house that was being renovated, twice the amount id need. Snapped it because it was going so cheap, and was going to worry about weight later. If i decide against I can always sell it but im aiming for a high end (though homely) interior so i'm up for making concessions in some places to facilitate other luxuries like a really really nice floor! If I have empty the whole thing of anything not screwed down each time it comes to moving, so be it!


----------



## MusicMan (21 Dec 2018)

Regarding the roof. I have wondered - also for a workshop - about using multi wall polycarbonate sheet, e.g. https://www.plasticbuildingsupplies.com ... gKFpvD_BwE

It is used for conservatories and greenhouses, is not expensive, is lightweight and has good insulation values. Glazing framework is available and of course it provides light. I'd be interested in what the building experts here think.

OTOH you have a large roof area which is crying out to be covered in solar cells.

Keith


----------



## Dokkodo (21 Dec 2018)

Ive used polycarbonate twinwall before, on sheds and the like. It is certainly all those things (cheap, insulating, light) and might be a good shout for a skylight, but something seems odd about having an entire roof made of it! I quite like the idea, its a bit radical, but I guess in the summer it would have a pretty serious greenhouse effect! 

Definitely going to want lots of solar power too...


----------



## Lons (21 Dec 2018)

All sounds good but be very careful with the kitchen as this is normally where most of the weight is carried, cooker, fridge etc and the reason why you'll find few, if any caravans with a front kitchen.

Unless you have a range rover / disco etc. or a commercial vehicle you'll find that most cars have a maximum noseweight allowance of around 100 - 120 kg and even if more than that the actual towbar manufacturer may have plated lower. It's an offence to exceed the lowest of the 2 amounts.
There will also be a maximum axle load for both the trailer chassis and the towing vehicle.

You must have passed your test after 1997 if you need to upgrade to cat B+E or C1 and so be restricted to max combined of 3500kg

I'm at the other end and have loads of entitlements including a motorcycle which is stupid as I haven't ridden one for 50 years :roll: but because I'll be 70 in March and our motorhome is 3850kg I need to pay for a signed medical form from the GP. I don't have issues with that as I'm all for safety first but bet I'll not be happy with the cost of a docs signature.  

Looking forward to seeing your project take shape, plenty of photos please!


----------



## Dokkodo (21 Dec 2018)

Hopefully phase one will begin in the new year if i can avoid distractions, and the outer structure should go up quite quick once I get going, will document it all thoroughly! 

It is a shame that licenses aint what they used to be, though with good reason im sure. Ive found it all totally mindboggling, just looked again at a few sites and confused myself again. But im pretty sure I can have a winning combination of gross train weight, vehicle tow limit, hitch limits and chassis rating, so it largely comes down to the nose weight of the trailer, which I will be paying close attention to from now on!

One (dangerous?) thought: does having weight either end balance out, with the axels as fulcrum? ie. if the front ends up too heavy, does making the opposite end heavy balance things out... safely?


----------



## Lons (22 Dec 2018)

Dokkodo":ia1l9xl6 said:


> One (dangerous?) thought: does having weight either end balance out, with the axels as fulcrum? ie. if the front ends up too heavy, does making the opposite end heavy balance things out... safely?


In a word - no!

The main loads should be over the axle which is why end kitchen caravans, in the old days of construction especially were bloody awful to tow. You can balance it out some but seriously risk distorting a modern lightweight chassis by loading each end heavily. It's also an offence to tow a badly loaded van and the police would stop you if it was badly swaying also in the event of an accident the insurance company would refuse to pay out.

Modern units on Al-ko chassis and others have electronic braking stability as well as friction dampers in the coupling head which helps and many of the tow vehicles have additional electronic stability features as well.
The van I sold in September was a large twin axle with MPTLM of 1800kg whilst my Merc weight only 1880kg but loaded properly and with the correct noseweight it towed perfectly.

I have a downloaded pdf file re licence regs which is easy to understand, just pm me with your email address it it's of use to you, I can't see how to send it via pm.

Noseweight is easy to check btw with a set of bathroom scalesand length of broomshank.

Apart from being a long time caravanner, in the early days especially, I worked for one of the largest manufacturers, ABI in the late seventies.

Cheers
Bob


----------



## Dokkodo (22 Dec 2018)

Well in that case i am doubly grateful for your input! And would love to have that file to add to my project folder, got the IVA manual waiting to be given a thorough scan, an engaging holiday read... I will PM you my email address.

I dont think Ive posted the pics of my chassis yet so ill show that off now too:


----------



## ColeyS1 (22 Dec 2018)

Following this thread with interest. The chasis looks really smart !

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


----------



## Lons (22 Dec 2018)

Solid looking chassis, excellent! 
I don't think you'll have much trouble towing with the vehicle parked next to it. :lol:


----------



## Dokkodo (22 Dec 2018)

ColeyS1":3vy98fah said:


> Following this thread with interest. The chasis looks really smart !
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk




Yeah, so shiny. Its got all the clever braking wizardry and the company fabricating it added an extra feature which is quite neat, the a-frame can be unbolted. So if its going to live somewhere for a while I can take it off, for security, and so itll look dead tidy. just need to build the thing now...


----------



## craigy (30 May 2019)

Looking forward to seeing more of your build. Hopefully you’re well on with the project. Any updates ?


----------



## Woodchips2 (30 May 2019)

I think George Clarke's sidekick Will Hardie built a trailer on one of their programmes. May be worth doing a bit of research too see if the episode is on the internet and get an idea of what construction he used.
Regards Keith


----------



## Dokkodo (12 Jul 2019)

Just reviving this to say that I am about to begin. Life has happened as it does so its taken longer than i'd have liked to get going but im looking forward to making a start, with phase one being the outer shell and interior cladding.

I am going more or less with the original design for the shell. One alteration is that I am now going to wrap the whole thing in ali sheet now, which makes the roof simpler and will make it even more airstreamy, so it will be a sort of monocoque exterior but with the exposed timber frame inside. 

Think i'm going to stick to the timber frame plan despite concerns about the weight of reclaimed 4x2s, they aren't too heavy, and will give both structural and aesthetic benefits, and in principle it will still be monocoque and overall pretty light. 

I hope my insulation plans are correct, itll be boards in the floor build up, spray on the walls and maybe that or more boards in the ceiling. The build up of these is one of the things i'm less sure on having not done much building work, any pointers on recommended thickness for floor welcome. And the spraying direct to outer shell i believe reduces condensation problems? As for ventilation, there are lots of opening windows, hopefully thats enough.

Hopefully will be able to post first WIP photos in the coming week or two. Thanks to those following and supporting!


----------



## rafezetter (12 Jul 2019)

Hi Dokkodo

I really think you might want to still consider the metal frame option for the walls - I hear what you are saying about the aesthetics internally, but you can do that with strips of wood, placed anywhere you like, and have the choice of fancy wood types to boot!

I've not built one, or worked for a caravan company, but I've been watching the tiny homes scene for close to 10 years (as a possible option to never being able to buy my own), along with self builds, Earth Ships, boatbuilding (Father owns a wooden fitted yacht and has been talking about a refit for years), George Clarkes Amazing Spaces (with Will Hardy, mentioned previously who's a real innovator), and pretty much every program and hundreds of youtubes on renovating old structures both static and mobile inc caravans / horse boxes etc etc etc into a home, for_ decades_ - man I'd LOVE a vintage Airstream, I know a guy who has one...... or an american style school bus - a la Bob Waldmire's Route 66 bus (google it, it's a beaut), anyway, so I'd like to think I've picked up a few things along the way.

Oh and I also studied architecture and construction at college for 3 years.

Anyway my point is this, there is one main rule for all of them, it's a bad design choice that builds UP TO a weight limit for a mobile structure.

One should always endeavour to BUILD DOWN as much as is reasonably feasable within a budget or slightly over if the cost is tolerable. Saving that weight now might well be required down the line - but you'll never know that until it comes to it, and by then it's too late.

For example there's a simple question, how are you going to fit out the kitchen area and "how much does a box of average sized tiles weigh?" - it's every small choice like this that most people don't take into account.

As for the fitted components inside, whether it be a few or festooned, there's only one mantra to follow "maximum storage, maximum storage, maximum storage".

150kg of weight saved (compared to the ali frame option as guesstimate) will give you a *lot* more storage alteration options, and you'll be very glad of it - especially if you get fed up of having no washing facilities unless you intend to strip wash from the sink every day which will get old real fast when there's no site facilities; relying on site facilites will seriously hamper your ability to just "hook up and go, any time, any *place*", there are a great deal of sites that are little more than a field on someone's farm with NOTHING in the way of facilities apart from a source of water.

You'll need to plan for that - or be forever tied to using a dedicated site.

Looks like you might have JUST enough room for a "bath in the floor" between the struts of the trailer - and as you're planning on having a log burner here's an interesting option  

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-man-b ... 26067.html

Make the bath out of metal - copper preferably - and solder copper pipes to the outside of it, in continuous loops, several being better to have more pipes in the fire, that run through the stove fire in am unbroken loop, with a pressure outlet valve AND a cut off valve so you can cut the water from flowing when it's hot enough. The liquid in the loop is usually water but could be glycol (?) or a mixture for better thermo conductivity and will self feed cold > hot because of thermo dynamics.

or... *faded memory surfaces* aha yes! Easier still make a version of this: 

https://gigazine.net/gsc_news/en/20160731-dutch-hub/

I'm sure the design can be modified to work with a log burner.

Lol, just an idea 

The simplest way would be a simple solar shower option, black bladder on roof, heating water that outlets from the side of the structure, but they don't work in english winters ! 

Oh and don't forget to create storage cubbies in the floor either, best place for car batteries and heavy items, you've got at least the depth of the chassis and a little bit more you can use - and possibly give it some larger wheels, looks like you've got some room there too, before rubbing the underside of the main framework, far as I know it doesn't matter of the trailer is tipped slighty forward towards the car, and prolly preferable to being tiped back away from the car, so maybe get some height measurements on where the hitch will be heightwise when attached to a vehicle.

I've noticed in your more recent sketchup you've got freestanding furniture, in a towable structure this is also MASSIVE NO NO. They can move, shifting the weight and adding all sorts of complications - this is quite apart from the other point which is there is an awful lot of wasted airspace in between the legs of a freestanding chair.

Your first sketchup with a "box style / built in" unit is far more preferable - no moving parts except what's stored inside; however your coffee table on wheels is also a massive no, no.

If it were me I would do several things differently - if you would allow me.

The bed, I would remove that altogether _for now_ and make it part of the boxed seating arrangement - sure you'll have to make it and unmake it each day, or not as the case may be :wink: but it will also lower the centre of gravity at the rear, which is where all the fun happens if the weight isn't well distributed as MikeG stated - because I'm getting the impression you like to make things "chunky" - aka "weighty".

I would also not _*statically build in*_ the seating unit either, I would make it in sections that can be moved about on small rollers something similar to these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SODIAL-Sliver- ... 4321&psc=1

Maybe 1 longer and taller one for the main back rest and 3 or 4 for the seating - and here's where the clever bit happens and the reason for the rollers - when in transit they can be MOVED further forward over the axle, and then fixed down to the floor using some ali angle, metal plasterboard hollow fixings in the floor and these, which take up minimal space.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sourcing-map-A ... ay&sr=8-38

You'll need to have fixing points in the floor where they will be placed for transit and when in "normal" use. There is one additional benefit - if you move the units over the axle it'll also give you the option to make a decent sized open space at the far rear should you need it - for storing lightweight items like a bicycle, surfboards and whatever else that can be *strapped and tried down* to the floor using those self same metal fixings.

If you absolutely MUST have a bed you don't have to "make up" every day - you could consider a platform that's more central over the axle, that lifts and lowers on climbing rope (not paracord) using a pully system, with the cords arranged similar to a venetian blind, pulling from one point, with drop down legs so it rests on the floor, then the legs fold and clip up in place and you lift it to the roof again - you'll lose minimal headspace and you could even use the underside to fit LED's for main lighting - just add some spacers to the "bottom" of the bed and a sheet of 6mm plywood to create a cavity for the fittings and power unit (and the legs) - they use very little power and present an almost negligable fire risk if fitted / insulated correctly.

Sorry, I'm going on and on, I've got lots of ideas for a similar space and I envy you that you've got the chance to make it happen =D> - I'll be watching with interest.

And and it's not "cheating" to use the free resources here, I'd call that smart thinking.

Good luck ! (hammer) (hammer)

Edit - I was just going to say that I'm practically FIZZING with jealousy and I'd offer to help if you lived closer - then I clicked on your avatar - I can't repeat what I said but, we live in the SAME CITY, Bristol.

Seriously, I've got my own tools; maybe more than you as it's my profession (hammer) including things like a site saw, track saws, mitre saw, MFT's and trestles, clamps galore, etc etc and can offer time in between work and stuff as I'm self employed; it would be a lot of fun - oh and my car is large - a people carrrier actually with no rear seats, should you need materials in bulk.

Send me a PM if you need extra hands. Really.

Oh and one last, last final thing - my vehicle has a full on towing setup (from previous owners) 2 power outlers and a safety latch - in case you needed to move the trailer on site .

#muchtookeentobehealthy


----------



## Dokkodo (15 Jul 2019)

Hahaaa well thats a very enthusiastic and content heavy post for which I am very grateful, many good ideas!

On frame and weight. I see what you're saying about building down the weight, of course. I haven't ever used metal stud frame so thats one reason i haven't been considering it I suppose, wouldnt know where to begin, and wood makes it easy to do odd angles and frame in windows and doors, though obviously thats possible in metal too. 

Regarding the tubs! I was planning on the latter, outdoor thing, this isn't going to be a touring vehicle. Its more a house, that can move every now and then, if i want to travel i take my van. Ideally ill move it once every couple of years, so a few things can be set up around it. I was thinking of making a semi-portable outdoor compost loo, for instance, and maybe outdoor shower/bath arrangement. In the dream version, theres another trailer with a sauna/shower on it. Obviously this would require finding the right spot (or buying some land) but its all possible. But the tub in the floor, that is pretty cool...

Same goes for furniture (although all interior stuff in the sketchup is very much just ideas - was going to reconsider when the shell and floor are done and i have a better sense of proportion). If i have to lug a few things out and pack my van with them when it comes to moving time, thats not such a big deal.

I am also rethinking the large double doors on one side. I already have them, well some metal framed sliding patio doors I acquired to have the double glazing out of, but they are very heavy, and actually I realise they use up a huge amount of wall space. As nice as it would be to be able to open the whole thing up, im wondering whether its worth the trade off in functional space.



> I was just going to say that I'm practically FIZZING with jealousy and I'd offer to help if you lived closer - then I clicked on your avatar - I can't repeat what I said but, we live in the SAME CITY



Guess i better PM you about having a meet up and you can avail me of your thoughts in person! Much to discuss and if i have to rethink things i better get on with it, was about to make a start...


----------



## rafezetter (15 Jul 2019)

Dokkodo":1kkjqz4a said:


> Hahaaa well thats a very enthusiastic and content heavy post for which I am very grateful, many good ideas!
> 
> On frame and weight. I see what you're saying about building down the weight, of course. I haven't ever used metal stud frame so thats one reason i haven't been considering it I suppose, wouldnt know where to begin, and wood makes it easy to do odd angles and frame in windows and doors, though obviously thats possible in metal too.



You can still add wood to the metal framing for any particularly "odd" bits.



Dokkodo":1kkjqz4a said:


> Regarding the tubs! I was planning on the latter, outdoor thing, this isn't going to be a touring vehicle. Its more a house, that can move every now and then, if i want to travel i take my van. Ideally ill move it once every couple of years, so a few things can be set up around it. I was thinking of making a semi-portable outdoor compost loo, for instance, and maybe outdoor shower/bath arrangement. In the dream version, theres another trailer with a sauna/shower on it. Obviously this would require finding the right spot (or buying some land) but its all possible. But the tub in the floor, that is pretty cool...
> 
> Same goes for furniture (although all interior stuff in the sketchup is very much just ideas - was going to reconsider when the shell and floor are done and i have a better sense of proportion). If i have to lug a few things out and pack my van with them when it comes to moving time, thats not such a big deal.
> 
> I am also rethinking the large double doors on one side. I already have them, well some metal framed sliding patio doors I acquired to have the double glazing out of, but they are very heavy, and actually I realise they use up a huge amount of wall space. As nice as it would be to be able to open the whole thing up, im wondering whether its worth the trade off in functional space.



Mostly static gives you a lot more options and flexibilty of design. Regarding the double glazed doors this is what I meant by weight trade offs, although I'd imagine a hollow UPVC frame would be lighter than even a Pine frame even without the fact it's rot proof, although you _could_, maybe try a light hardwood, as there are a few, I've got some that is as light or even lighter than common Pine. 

Wallspace - there's more than one way to skin a cat - who says things can't occupy the same space at the same time? Intrigued?



Dokkodo":1kkjqz4a said:


> > I was just going to say that I'm practically FIZZING with jealousy and I'd offer to help if you lived closer - then I clicked on your avatar - I can't repeat what I said but, we live in the SAME CITY
> 
> 
> 
> Guess i better PM you about having a meet up and you can avail me of your thoughts in person! Much to discuss and if i have to rethink things i better get on with it, was about to make a start...



Yup we can do that


----------



## Trainee neophyte (15 Jul 2019)

I'm a bit late to the party, but I did once build a campervan out of a Luton furniture van, which I then lived in permanently for 3 or 4 years. If you want a permanent home, you want a permanent bed, which doesn't have to be folded up. Every. Single. Day. It wears thin - believe me. You cannot have enough storage (a bit like clamps in a workshop), and any hidden void should be considered potential storage space.

Finally, I have a friend who makes barrel top waggons. Not suggesting you buy one, but it may give you some inspiration, and Ben is a very approachable chap, especially if you have cider. He may well be able to help regarding clever ideas, design etc. http://www.barreltopwagons.co.uk/cabins ... -huts.html


----------



## Dokkodo (16 Aug 2019)

Tend to agree with you TN, and i intend this to be my full time home at some point so I dont know about a bed that takes too much effort to make use of.

Finally started this week with refurbing the windows while i wait to finalise shell design, with a hope to get the shell done before i go away for a month in october and before its dark cold and wet all the time.






Generally, i am tending towards having it the way ive planned with regards to weight extravagancies such as floor, windows, doors, because they are going to make the space very nice, which is priority number 2, priority 1 it being road legal. It would be really great to casually tow it on holiday or to festivals and the like, but if by making it very nice it means I have to pay someone to move it on the rare occassions i want to actually move house, i think id rather it was a nicer home for the 300 days a year when i dont need to be glamping... i might upgrade to an iveco van and get my towing license 
once i know the weight of the finished thing.

However, I appreciate the need to save weight wherever possible, even more so probably considering the extravagant features. Going to put the housing for batteries, water and gas as central as possible, maybe some in/under the floor. All the windows and big doors are pretty much central. 

Speaking of, the 7 double glazed windows total 90kgs and the pair of oak exterior doors I salvaged from a skip outside a 16th century house in sussex will be about another 50 once ive replaced the leaded glass for double glazing. And i need to make a frame for the doors and think about how to frame out the window apertures. 






Today I got the 11 lidl veg boxes of parquet tiles down from my mezzanine and de-tarred a square metres worth to calculate numbers and weight. As it is it will add up to another 150 kg :shock: 
so, im thinking i might resaw the necessary 1100 :!: tiles down by the back third, this will obviously save a goodly weight but will also mean that the tounge and grooves will all become tounges. Wondering if anyone sees a problem with this, once stuck down im hoping it wouldnt all be suddenly very prone to warping... they about 3 quarters the darker colour, the rest the lighter, so i think ill do a border in the lighter or something. They need a good clean but I would like to retain the patina so i tried a bit of the reviver mix from the hand tools forum to clean them, seems to work pretty well.











Still I hope we can get that meeting in Raf, before i get carried away and build the whole frame out of oak and put a green roof on it :mrgreen: (hammer) 

Once the design is sorted though i should be able to get the shell up fairly quick. Frame/batten, clad (going to skin the whole thing in ali now, roof included, so its going to be even more airstreamy on the outside), install windows/doors, spray insulation (expensive but good from what i hear), then various floor layers (epdm, osb, insulation, parquet). Will save up all the evidence and do a proper WIP when all is done.

PS apologies for the neck breaking picture orientations


----------



## rafezetter (16 Aug 2019)

Well seems like you've got a plan of sort's but other weights you might want to consider are "living stuff" - mattress (heavy), gas bottles, (heavy), water (heavy) - potable and waste, not grey, don't assume a guarenteed water supply on site, or disposal facilites for human waste, but that all depends on where you intend to put the tiny home, so I'd check first.

Batteries and how many you'll need to get at least a weeks worth of normal usage, for WINTER hours, as solar isn't even remotely reliable for charging - lol which reminds me as an aside one "green" house I saw being built in USA had to have a boiler fitted because apparently "the sun is not a reliable energy source".... in California. He's never used the boiler once, and was so tickled by that ridiculous statement from the planning office he had it engraved in stone and mounted by the boiler he doesn't use.

Mounting batteries ANYWHERE is a tricky thing, my advice would be to research how they do it for yachts, where the risk of fire is compounded by being at sea (ironic right?), but underfloor would be my first option in a water tight casing system, trying to offset the centre of gravity as low as you can, as much as you can - don't forget wind is a factor against a large surface area, and this will also limit where you can site it.

Consider adding eyebolts to the chassis at 4 locations, and a further 4 or 6 on the tiny home itself near the roof - for tie downs in case of higher winds while you are away, using the kind of spiral anchors used by extreme kiters when wishing to remain immobile using a drag kite, they have incredible pull out resistance when set properly. Anchoring it in some way to the ground wouldn't be a stupid idea either once on site, if allowed or possible, some hefty chains concreted into holes dug - "post hole" fashion to discourage light fingered folk who take a fancy to it.

Yeah we should talk soon, looks like some of next weeks weather is a bit rubbish so I'll be free for a chat and maybe a looksee, you got my number.

Still think some of those choices might want a second look for alternatives - the parquet flooring being one - "just coz you haz it - don't mean you HAZ to use it."


----------

