# Clifton planes



## Paul Chapman (6 Sep 2014)

I went to the Yandles woodworking show today. While there I had an interesting chat with Mike Hudson who, as usual, was demonstrating the Clifton range of planes.

He told me that Alan Reid, the boss of Clico who were the owners of Clifton, is retiring. There's some re-structuring going on within the Clico organisation and the Clifton plane manufacturing part of the business has been sold to Thomas Flinn & Co. Thomas Flinn & Co are based in Sheffield and manufacture the well-known Garlick, ET Roberts & Lee, and Pax range of saws.

Mike told me that the Clifton range of planes would continue to be made by the same people who have made them in the past and using the same plant and machinery, so they will continue to be manufactured to the high standard we have come to expect.

Mike will be employed by the Clico organisation but would be retained by Thomas Flinn & Co in an advisory capacity. I think we can expect to see him at future woodworking shows doing what he does so well.

As a long-time user of Clifton planes, I wish Thomas Flinn & Co every success in their new venture. Who knows, we might even see the Clifton block plane in due course........ :lol: 

There's a bit more about all this on the Thomas Flinn & Co Facebook page.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Tony Zaffuto (6 Sep 2014)

My Clifton #3 remains my favorite smoother - bought new for a bargain price a decade or more ago when one of the tool retailers was dropping Clifton. If I remember correctly at that time, there were a few planes released with some QC issues, but for the life of me, I can't remember any issue that a bit of tuning wouldn't have cured.

Some don't like the 2 piece chipbreaker, but I do and have actually purchased several for a #5 & a #7. As I don't use sharpening jigs, the "Stay Set" works like a charm for me when honing. I also think the Clifton blades are either equal or better than any blade on the market today.


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## Paul Chapman (6 Sep 2014)

Tony Zaffuto":c0ebc4b4 said:


> If I remember correctly at that time, there were a few planes released with some QC issues



That was many years ago and all the quality issues were quickly sorted. Yes, the #3 Clifton is great - one of my favourites too 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## paulm (6 Sep 2014)

Interesting news Paul, hopeful Clifton will continue for many more years to come 

Cheers, Paul


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## Paul Chapman (6 Sep 2014)

I'm sure they will.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Vann (6 Sep 2014)

Tony Zaffuto":q8b5i0bz said:


> My Clifton #3 remains my favorite smoother...





Paul Chapman":q8b5i0bz said:


> ...Yes, the #3 Clifton is great - one of my favourites too


Ditto. I can't say I get on so well with my Cliffe No.4 1/2, but my Cliffie No.3 is the one I always reach for for finishing. Love it.



paulm":q8b5i0bz said:


> ...hopeful Clifton will continue for many more years to come


Yes I hope so too. I too will be in the market if they ever put out that block plane.

But I don't feel that hopeful about their future. I'm forever reading posts about people buying various versions of Quangsheng planes - they must have taken a considerable chunk of the market that Clico was hoping to capture. I hope there are sufficient sales remaining to sustain Clifton, but I feel sure that's why there's been no expansion. Still, if people won't support local industry...

Cheers, Vann.


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## G S Haydon (6 Sep 2014)

I'm not sure I agree there Vann. I think the average QS buyer is looking for what Stanley or Record used to do with great skill, make decent tools at a good price. The Clifton, LN, LV is for those wanting something a little more "special" and is a different demographic.

On the Clifton side of things I saw this via FB as well. I hope to see them around for a long time to come.


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## Sheffield Tony (6 Sep 2014)

Looks like Thomas Flinn will be the last man standing in Sheffield tool making. Any idea what will become of the Clico augur bits ? They seem to be the last manufacturer in Europe at least, and they are a pleasure to use. I hope they will still be made...


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## Paul Chapman (6 Sep 2014)

Sheffield Tony":wghi8lle said:


> Looks like Thomas Flinn will be the last man standing in Sheffield tool making. Any idea what will become of the Clico augur bits ? They seem to be the last manufacturer in Europe at least, and they are a pleasure to use. I hope they will still be made...



I think they are going to continue to be made by Clico.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Peter Sefton (6 Sep 2014)

I had a chat with Alan Reid a couple of weeks ago when placing a stock order. We had a quick chat about me supplying WoodRiver in the UK, they are great planes and this quality of plane at a cheaper price possibly has cut Clifton sales but there is something very special about a Clifton and my 5 1/2 heavy Jack is still my go to plane.
Alan was a real gent to deal with a very traditional type of businessman and I wish him a long and happy retirement. Alan along with Mike and Clifton plane makers have had a tough few years, but I do feel that under the Thomas Flinn ownership with Katie and Christian (the next generation of sheffield tool makers) driving the business Clifton will prosper.
I made some videos with Mike last year after our discussions on here about Clifton marketing, it was a real insight into the detail and craftsmanship they put into each plane that make them so special. 
I hope they go from strength to strength.
Cheers Peter


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## carlb40 (7 Sep 2014)

> But I don't feel that hopeful about their future. I'm forever reading posts about people buying various versions of Quangsheng planes - they must have taken a considerable chunk of the market that Clico was hoping to capture. I hope there are sufficient sales remaining to sustain Clifton, but I feel sure that's why there's been no expansion. Still, if people won't support local industry...
> 
> Cheers, Vann.



I guess i am one of those that are guilty of buying QS over local made products. I have a few reasons as a visual person looks matter to me. 
I prefer the flat top style of the Bedrock body - used by QS / Lie Nielsen over the standard bailey pattern. 
I don't like the British racing green colour used on the bodies.
I don't get on with the 2 part chip breaker.
I realise most of the above shouldn't matter, but to me it does. You have to look at the tools while using them and i would find it annoying during use. 
I buy tools that are right for the job and me, not merely to support local manufacturing.  

However i wish clifton all the best for the future and hope they are still going many many years from now.


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## MIGNAL (7 Sep 2014)

:shock: I'm truly shocked but I guess we all have our opinions on aesthetics. I don't own a Clifton but to my eyes they are the best looking of all the Bailey style planes being made. . . . and aesthetically certainly better than any Veritas.


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## Tony Zaffuto (7 Sep 2014)

Over here in the States, I wish that companies such as Clifton and Thomas Flinn had a larger presence. The Cliftons are every bit the plane the LN are and the top grade Flinn handsaws are as good as any boutique maker's at a fraction of the price (I have a 14" sash saw, with walnut handle that is simply great). At one time, there was also a price advantage to go with a Clifton plane, and I contend the Clifton iron is at least the equal of any out there if not better (well, there is another British maker, Ray Iisles, that also makes great irons - and have several).

The issue as I see it, is a diminishing market for many of these tools. Many dip their toes for a year or two, and may buy a jack or smoother, but the market for 4-1/2s, 5-1/2s and 8s has got to be tiny. Here in the states it seems to be all about dovetail saws, with less interest on sash & tenon saws. I wish chisels were made in the way of old: no handles! Put the value into a good W1 or O1 steel and have handles made by the user (or sold as optional "equipment").

So yes, I hope we see companies such as Clifton & Flinn around a long, long time.


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## Vann (7 Sep 2014)

MIGNAL":f58geubc said:


> :shock: I'm truly shocked but I guess we all have our opinions on aesthetics. I don't own a Clifton but to my eyes they are the best looking of all the Bailey style planes being made. . . . and aesthetically certainly better than any Veritas.


From the aesthetics point of view, I like the Lie-Nielsen planes best (but I don't like their A2 irons, preferring the hand forged irons of the Cliftons). So I have to rank them (based on looks only) Lie-Nielsen, Clifton, Veritas. But as you point out - we all have our opinions :wink: 

I note from Dereks testing of the chuting/shooting planes, that the Clifton iron performed very badly. Hopefully that was only because of those notorious Aussie hardwoods. I don't have enough experience to have noticed any shortcomings...

Cheers, Vann.


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## Tony Zaffuto (7 Sep 2014)

Regarding performance of various steels, I subscribe to the notion of what works for me and that would be O1 or W1. I believe I may have a blade or two that is A2 (don't like it on my oilstones), but for at least the last half decade, I would not purchase A2. I do have a couple of blades made by LV of their new PMV-11 material (and a chisel). Purchases were made because I am curious and so far have found I can sharpen it on my oilstones with a bit more effort than my other irons.

However, for the woods I work (cherry, white oak and similar species), O1 and W1 does the trick for me.

As far as aesthetics of planes, I do like the squared off soles of Bedrocks (copied by LN and Wood River). But the Clifton green, with the mirror polish of the steel on the edges really is pretty! In fact, I tricked out a #5 n a similar color and polish of edges! Any way this shapes up is, that it is to our benefit to have all of the present manufacturers stay in business, giving us the ability of choice.


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## CStanford (7 Sep 2014)

I wish I were able to do more business with Clico/Clifton if for nothing more than to feel that I am quelling just a minute bit of the internet marketing din of Lee Valley and Asian suppliers (Japanese and Chinese).

Western woodworking will have lost something really precious without a reliable British supplier of good quality woodworking tools.

It's really up to you guys to see that this doesn't happen.


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## heimlaga (7 Sep 2014)

One of my friends owns a Clifton shoulder plane. I am not the kind of person who think about aesthetics as long as a tool looks decently well made and fits in the hand and does it's job........but how I wish that plane was mine. It cuts wood very well and feels good in my fairly large hands and that is what matters to me.
One day I might get rich enough to actually own one.......

I am sick and tired of all those companies selling perfectly polished flashy tools looking like they would fit on the mantlepiece of a swanky dining room though made from useless raw materials with faulty machining and improper heat treatment. 
From my point of wiew the problem is that people want new shiny things and they want them all and they want them now. This mentality leads a lot of people towards buying substandard stuff. A good tool is an investment for life so it has to cost a bit of money. On the other hand none of us needs the full range of fancy tools we are led to believe that we need if the ones we have do a proper job and are chosen with their actual use in mind. None of us needs the brass and polish either as long as the technical quality is good.

Just my thoughts.


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## Paul Chapman (9 Sep 2014)

Sheffield Tony":2rqseobo said:


> Any idea what will become of the Clico augur bits ? They seem to be the last manufacturer in Europe at least, and they are a pleasure to use. I hope they will still be made...



Alan Reid, Managing Director of Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Ltd., was in touch with me today and he confirmed that the wood boring tools (augers, Jennings pattern bits, spoon bits, mortice chisels and bits, etc) will remain as Clico products and will continue in production.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Vann (9 Sep 2014)

Paul Chapman":26ic7cql said:


> Alan Reid, Managing Director of Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Ltd., was in touch with me today and he confirmed that the wood boring tools (augers, Jennings pattern bits, spoon bits, mortice chisels and bits, etc) will remain as Clico products and will continue in production.



Excellent news.

Cheers, Vann.


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## Peter Sefton (9 Sep 2014)

Vann":3g5778fl said:


> Paul Chapman":3g5778fl said:
> 
> 
> > Alan Reid, Managing Director of Clico (Sheffield) Tooling Ltd., was in touch with me today and he confirmed that the wood boring tools (augers, Jennings pattern bits, spoon bits, mortice chisels and bits, etc) will remain as Clico products and will continue in production.
> ...



I second that


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