# Hobbies treadle fretsaw



## Viking

Hello everyone,

I would be most grateful if any of you could identify and/or give historic background to this treadle operated fretsaw by Hobbies, please.

It appears to be similar to the Imperial model (early 1900's) but with a more recent saw mechanism.

Best Regards, Dagfinn


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## scrimper

Interesting! the bottom half is 100% definitely hobbies imperial but as you mention the top is a little questionable if you look at the drawing of the Imperial it has a different designed top part plus I always understood that the Imperial came with the built in drill attachment, however it's possible that might have made some without?




however a later image seems to show a different design top more similar to your picture but again it does have the drilling attachment.

It has obviously been painted because Imperials were always supplied in black originally.


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## Viking

Thank you Scrimper for your most interesting information. Do you have any dates for the illustrations you posted?

The RAF blue is believed original paint, could it be that there were a stock of Imperial bases to be used up in a production run with the more recent saw mechanism? Anyone know how many of these were made, I have only seen two! The Hobbies company did not have any information sadly, so its up to you guys!


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## scrimper

Viking":12c78rn7 said:


> Thank you Scrimper for your most interesting information. Do you have any dates for the illustrations you posted?
> 
> The RAF blue is believed original paint, could it be that there were a stock of Imperial bases to be used up in a production run with the more recent saw mechanism? Anyone know how many of these were made, I have only seen two! The Hobbies company did not have any information sadly, so its up to you guys!



I still don't think it was sold in that colour, if you look closely you can see the black finish underneath and on the back of the cast arm support it shows the original black.

I will post some further info about the imperial later tonight, I have some grass to cut now!


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## Rhyolith

I believe Hobbies are from my neighbourhood, that being Norfolk. They were based in Dereham which is a town about 10miles west of Norwich. 

They made simple treadle lathes and coping saws too, though thats only the stuff I have seen; Fretsaws seem to have been their main production (they turn up all over the place), thats the nicest one I have seen... mine is much more bog standard and less fancy.


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## Viking

Hi Rhyolith,

Thanks for your comments.
I believe this example may be a bit of a hybrid model when Hobbies were transferring production over from the Imperial model but still had imperial model bases to use with a newer design saw head. Have anyone out there got a more informed view on this?

The base is certainly well proportioned and very sturdy and stable.


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## Rhyolith

The top certainly looks like my standard model. It might be of course that some previous owner replaced it. 

Quite a lot pops up on google if you search "Hobbies of Dereham", they seem to still be around... unless there is a new Hobbies company operating in Dereham selling modelling kit


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## powertools

I am a bit of a collector of hobbies teradle saws and I have what I think is an imperial but it is different again from yours. I think that they made many different versions.


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## scrimper

powertools":zg6noj5e said:


> I am a bit of a collector of hobbies teradle saws and I have what I think is an imperial but it is different again from yours. I think that they made many different versions.



Is yours like either of the two pictures of the second post in this thread?


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## scrimper

Rhyolith":1par5tk9 said:


> Quite a lot pops up on google if you search "Hobbies of Dereham", they seem to still be around... unless there is a new Hobbies company operating in Dereham selling modelling kit



The original Hobbies company was started around 1885 by J.H. Skinner, to start with they bought in fretwork tools and machines from abroad, by 1890 such was the demand that Hobbies opened a foundry in Dereham to manufacture machines in the UK eventually they became the worlds largest manufacturer of fretsaws. 

I won't list all of their history but they became known all over the world but in the late 1960's they were not making profits and the company was taken over and unbelievingly the famous name of Hobbies was dropped in favour of the name Exham Realisations Ltd (God only knows why!) but basically by 1969 Hobbies had ceased to exist. 

Again cutting out the history Ivan Stroulger an ex manager of Hobbies started a new company called Dereham Handicrafts Company which later became Hobbies (the new current company) but it was a different thing altogether, whereas the original company manufactured most of the things they sold the new Hobbies basically bought stuff in to sell, but it was good to see the brand return.

Sadly Ivan Stroulger passed away in 2009 age 92.


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## scrimper

Viking":3d7riaye said:


> Anyone know how many of these were made, I have only seen two! The Hobbies company did not have any information sadly, so its up to you guys!



TBH I doubt that anyone knows the answer to that question, when Hobbies was liquidated in 1968 most of the company records were destroyed and most who worked for the original Hobbies who might have known have long since passed away.

What I can tell you is that the Imperial first went into production around 1899 and continued up until the 2nd world war, they were certainly listed in the 1939 handbook but by 1941 they had disappeared as Hobbies went over to war production. after the war the Imperial was understandably never resurrected.

As far as I am aware there were two versions as shown in my pictures in the 2nd post of this thread, the later one was described as the new improved Imperial, the change happened sometime between 1931 and 1935.

For the record my late grandfather who gave fretwork lessons to local lads and sold Hobbies products in his shop owned an Imperial (the earlier model) and one of my greatest regrets is that I could have had it when he passed away but it went for scrap, at the time I owned a Hobbies A1 machine and did not have room for another machine, also being a young lad I was more interested in Motor cycles and young ladies at the time (Lol still am actually)!

Hope this info is of interest.


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## Rhyolith

Thanks for that scrimper, I am interested to learn more about one of the few local tool manufactures Norfolk has to offer


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## bugbear

Rhyolith":3lr9djn1 said:


> Thanks for that scrimper, I am interested to learn more about one of the few local tool manufactures Norfolk has to offer



In that case, I recommend you buy the book by Terry Davy.

BugBear


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## DTR

bugbear":27aklyre said:


> Rhyolith":27aklyre said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that scrimper, I am interested to learn more about one of the few local tool manufactures Norfolk has to offer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, I recommend you buy the book by Terry Davy.
> 
> BugBear
Click to expand...


Thanks for the tip, BugBear. I might have to get a copy myself as I'd love to know more about my treadle lathe. It's not the usual version (the Millers Falls copy) that normally crops up.


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## AES

Interesting bit of history this. I have no idea about the OP's saw but can say that when I was about 10 (say 1955) we had a treadle fret saw at (primary) school which I used a bit. No idea how old it was but I remember it was definitely Hobbies, was black (I think), and looked pretty similar (but perhaps not quite so "flowery") as the machine shown.

I also remember as a kid growing up around that time that there was a Hobbies Catalogue published every year, found in our local newsagents. Had a range of tools and various kits and bits & pieces (wheels, knobs, etc) in it. I used to drool over it regularly but couldn't afford the catalogue (about One and Six I think), never mind any of the contents!

I'd be interested in a link to the Hobbies book mentioned above. Anyone please?

AES


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## powertools

http://www.alwayshobbies.com/books-$4-d ... bies-story


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## AES

Thanks for that powertools - I didn't think of looking on Hobbies own web site!

Ordered (it's just interesting, and reminds me of my "yoof).

AES


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## scrimper

AES":d3pohcgs said:


> Interesting bit of history this. I have no idea about the OP's saw but can say that when I was about 10 (say 1955) we had a treadle fret saw at (primary) school which I used a bit. No idea how old it was but I remember it was definitely Hobbies, was black (I think), and looked pretty similar (but perhaps not quite so "flowery") as the machine shown.
> 
> I also remember as a kid growing up around that time that there was a Hobbies Catalogue published every year, found in our local newsagents. Had a range of tools and various kits and bits & pieces (wheels, knobs, etc) in it. I used to drool over it regularly but couldn't afford the catalogue (about One and Six I think), never mind any of the contents!
> 
> I'd be interested in a link to the Hobbies book mentioned above. Anyone please?
> 
> AES



Was the saw you are remembering more like this one




I still have one of these bought by my Grandfather, then passed on via my late father. I don't use it now it's much easier with the motorised saw!

It was originally called Hobbies catalogue but they changed the name to Hobbies handbook it was published it from the early days right up until 1968 (inc the war years). I have most copies from the 1930's to the last one, I always liked them for some reason, my dad bought one every year and I am a hoarder!


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## AES

Hi scrimper,

As far as I can remember (which to be honest is not all that well), the saw I used in the mid '50s looked pretty similar, but perhaps the foot treadles were a little less ornate, and I don't remember those 2 side extensions on the table. I don't even remember if it used pinned or pin less blades!

AES


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## Viking

> "I still don't think it was sold in that colour, if you look closely you can see the black finish underneath and on the back of the cast arm support it shows the original black."



Thank you Scrimper for the interesting story about these great tools. I dont recall seeing any black finish under the blue but I will check it out with the actual saw and report back. This will not be until the middle of May though.

The axle protruding from the small pulley was, I think, detailed to receive a chuck for drilling. Your second image might throw some light on this as it describes a saw with drill attachment. It would be great if you could scan this with the whole page showing and a little more definition, please.


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## scrimper

AES":31o8es5s said:


> Hi scrimper,
> 
> As far as I can remember (which to be honest is not all that well), the saw I used in the mid '50s looked pretty similar, but perhaps the foot treadles were a little less ornate, and I don't remember those 2 side extensions on the table. I don't even remember if it used pinned or pin less blades!
> 
> AES



Perhaps the one you remember was the Gem model which was less ornate than the A1, later Gems had plain foot treadles made of pressed steel.


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## AES

You may be right there scrimper, I seem to remember 2 separate foot pedals, fixed together (not 1 big rectangular one like the machine in the OP) and I certainly don't remember any drilling bits & bobs, nor any extension shaft coming out of the drive wheel.

BUT (big but!) "remember my memory" - never brilliant at the best of times - assuming I was exactly 10 at the time, then as of yesterday, my use of that machine was exactly 61 years ago! So my "recollections" are not going to be terribly reliable, sorry.

Interesting posts/topic though. Hobbies was certainly a well-known name in the past. And I don't know they made lathes as DTR said.

Your earlier info about a name change to something completely ridiculous rang a bell too - off topic this (sorry), but just as another glaring example, the US aircraft manufacturer Douglas was undoubtedly world leader in commercial & freight aeroplanes from before WWII onwards (DC2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, & 10). They got taken over by McDonnell (builders of the Phantom and other famous fighter aircraft) and from then on became "McDonnell-Douglas", subsequently producing only the MD-11 (a sort of souped-up DC-10, and the MD-80 & 90, souped-up DC9s). None wildly successful with the possible exception of the MD-80. But McD-D have now disappeared completely and what little that's left is owned by Boeing (under the Boeing name!). Remember that Boeing started out as being an also-ran compared to Douglas in the civil aircraft field in WWII, then they slowly overtook Douglas, and finally gobbled them up! I don't suggest that changing names is the whole story but I do firmly believe that this daft management story did play a significant role - as in so many other cases.

Anyway, I digress, sorry everyone. I look forward to getting that Hobbies book.

AES


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## scrimper

AES":3b0jaz1s said:


> Anyway, I digress, sorry everyone. I look forward to getting that Hobbies book.
> 
> AES



No problem drifting from the thread all threads do this, I think you and I feel the same about stupid pointless name changes, one that springs to mind was changing Royal mail to Consignia at a cost of £30 million then a few months later changing it back! I wonder how much the silly person who thought that up got paid! Another stupid name change (IMHO) is changing the famous Littlewoods store brand to Very! I bet some 'whizz kid' got paid silly money for thinking that one up too! :shock:


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## Viking

Here is a photograph from the other machine which is identical to the one in the first posting. This
one however has been badly painted green, which is definitely not original.

The castings are of a very high quality, balancing finish, strength and stiffness with light weignt. The foundry
that produced these castings must have been of the highest standard.

The shaft is 3/8" diameter and 1 1/8" long. At 1/4" from the wheel there is a flat 3 1/16" wide.
Presumably the flat provides fixing for a grub screw like the one shown on the flange of the wheel
Is this how the drilling attachment was fitted? What did the drilling attachment look like?

I am looking forward to receiving my copy of the Hobbies book. I think the history of the company
as it has started to emerge from your contributions and the machines themselves is an excellent story of enterprise
successfully sustained over many years.


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## Viking

Apologies, that should have read: The flat is 3/16" wide!


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## loftyhermes

Just going back to the Imperial, it could be a design change, (probably for economic reasons) just like the A1 see pics of how the table and wheel mountings have changed. I have two like the second picture.
happy scrolling
Steve


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## AES

@scrimper:

You wrote QUOTE: No problem drifting from the thread all threads do this, I think you and I feel the same about stupid pointless name changes ....... UNQUOTE:

Oh YES Sir, we do! As you say, many other examples too ..... But back to Hobbies:

As said I do definitely remember working with that Hobbies treadle saw, cutting plywood, and with minimal supervision (after the first explanations) and it was definitely in my last year at Primary School. Bearing in mind the thread elsewhere here about "craft training" for today's school kids, would I have been alone in this experience around that time? I should add that the Primary School concerned was a bog-standard local council Primary, not some special fee-paying establishment.

If not unusual then perhaps Hobbies got a lot of their business by supplying saws and blades, & bits & pieces, etc, to schools at that time? And perhaps that all dried up later on, hence (or part of the reason, along with daft name changes) for them becoming defunct?

Before that age I had already started cutting out and assembling cardboard cars & lorries off the back of Weetabix packets, and I think lots of kids were the same then too. As I remember it now, by that age all of us last-year Primary school kids were encouraged to do whatever sort of "handwork" we liked. It seems today's schools in UK (and in Switzerland too I think) aren't like that anymore.

I have a feeling that this may well be a reason why (apparently) so few school kids are involved with such stuff today.

Must make it difficult for companies such as Hobbies to keep going today.

The saw in the latest post above looks interesting. Let's hear more please.

AES


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## scrimper

loftyhermes":3r24gf3z said:


> Just going back to the Imperial, it could be a design change, (probably for economic reasons) just like the A1 see pics of how the table and wheel mountings have changed. I have two like the second picture.
> happy scrolling
> Steve



My A1 is exactly the same as the your second image, it is also the earlier model with the spoked hand wheel while the later one is solid.


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## scrimper

AES

You were lucky having a fretsaw at school we had no such thing around here, TBH after the 2nd world war actual fretwork was declining and Hobbies started to provide plans for more useful things around the house but I imagine it must have been difficult for them to stay in business at all especially when TV came along.

My late father came back from the 2nd world war after spending 6 years in the desert and finding it difficult to get work (they were Heroes during the war but afterwards no one wanted to know!) so he used his fretworking skills to make wooden toys and little brackets and stuff and 'peddle' them around the RAF camp where he worked, it supplemented our meagre income a little until all the cheap plastic stuff started to arrive and that was the end of that. I then took over the fretsaw as a youngish lad and made some toy farms and stuff which I sold to a toy shop near where I worked, that was about 50 yrs ago and I am lucky I kept the fretsaw.

Since I was about 10 I have always had an interest in the Hobbies company and that fascination has never waned, every week we took Hobbies weekly magazine and once a year the Hobbies handbook, by 1965 Hobbies were finding it difficult and they started to diversify more by retailing stuff made by others rather than manufacturing so much themselves which is sort of what the present company who use the Hobbies name do.

Both of my grandsons can do fretwork, both use my Hegner and the youngest one is only 8yrs old but it is unusual; most youngsters today are not interested in woodwork of any kind let alone fretwork such is the draw of computers and the WWW.


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## Viking

Here is the green "Imperial" as assembled earlier today.
This is virtually identical to the blue one shown in my first post. 

Could these be prototypes for the A1 at a time when the Imperial bases were still available?

They are both essentially an imperial base with an A1 saw head, however the
green one is missing some parts and other parts appear to be home made replacements.
The sawing head is in poor condition and requires a complete re-make.

The threadle mechanism works satisfyingly well, it seems to have a gentle rythm of its own
which makes it pleasant to pedal.


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## dnneves

Hello Everybody,

I have a incomplete Hobbies fretsaw, of the same model (The Imperial). I was trying to find other owners of this model, that could be so kind to provide me with pictures of the missing parts, because it is my intention to restore/rebuild it.

I apologize for my English, since I'm not a native speaker, and I thank you in advance for all the help you can give me.

DNN


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## Claymore

have you tried using Bing search engine with the name/model and select images? I have found Bing comes up with lots of different images compared to the other search engines.......you might be able to spot the missing parts.

Cheers
Brian
ps Your english is MUCH better than my Portuguese


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## scrimper

Not sure whether this image is of any use to you?


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## dnneves

Thank you for your replies!

As you can see below, my machine is a bit incomplete.





Any help you can give me identifying the missing parts, either with photos, drawings, etc, will be highly appreciated. My goal is to buy the missing parts but, if not possible, i will try to manufacture them.

Best regards,

Duarte


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## Stanleymonkey

The back of the saw - where the wooden arms should be looks like the standard shape on most cast iron Hobbies saws.

Iw ill try and post a picture over the weekend for you to look at.

If it is a match - then you should be able to find / make replacement wooden arms easily.


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## dnneves

Thank you Stanleymonkey,

I will be looking forward to see that picture.
I also would like to rebuild the drill attachment, if anyone can help me with that...

VIking, can you send me some photos of the saw clamps and wooden arms on your machine?

Thanks in advance.

Duarte


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## Viking

Hello Duarte,

Your english is great and so is your saw!

I have located the wooden arms and the parts that go with it. I will get some photographs of these for you.
Please let me know what dimensions you need.
Im also making a set of arms, the originals appear to be a good quality pine or perhaps cedar, tight straight grain.

Best Regards,

Viking


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## Wildman

AES":2bfbgzmo said:


> Interesting bit of history this. I have no idea about the OP's saw but can say that when I was about 10 (say 1955) we had a treadle fret saw at (primary) school which I used a bit. No idea how old it was but I remember it was definitely Hobbies, was black (I think), and looked pretty similar (but perhaps not quite so "flowery") as the machine shown.
> 
> I also remember as a kid growing up around that time that there was a Hobbies Catalogue published every year, found in our local newsagents. Had a range of tools and various kits and bits & pieces (wheels, knobs, etc) in it. I used to drool over it regularly but couldn't afford the catalogue (about One and Six I think), never mind any of the contents!
> 
> I'd be interested in a link to the Hobbies book mentioned above. Anyone please?
> 
> AES


there are numerous copies on Ebay under the names of "Hobbies Annual", Hobbies handbook"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hobbies-Handb ... SwyLlXpIAC

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1940-Vintage- ... SwgHZYCz93

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-Hobbys-A ... SwhOVXc8ox
etc


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## Claymore

I would love one of those classic treadle saws but would need to employ a street urchin to peddle it for me lol too much hard work for me but they look lovely and its great that people are still using them.
Brian


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## AES

Thanks for the links Wildman.

Since the post of mine to which you have replied I've bought the Hobbies history book (direct from Hobbies themselves). Very interesting, but as you'd expect as it was written by a local historian from the town where Hobbies were based (Thetford in Norfolk), although it does mention quite a lot of detail about the various machines it does tend to focus more on the company itself and it's staff.

Nothing wrong with any of that, on the contrary, but I shall certainly follow up on those links and look for one or two of those old Handbooks. The 1940's one looks interesting but I thought it a bit pricey - I dunno, perhaps it's more of a collector's item, which I'm not, but at nearly 30 quid + postage I thought it a bit steep - but anyway thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll find something suitable via those links and other searches.

Cheers

AES

AES


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## bugbear

I don't think there's ever been a book, but I know there are specialist Hobbies
collectors out there (more specifically, round here, I live in Norfolk).

One (or more) of them would certainly know a great deal about the various
models and their dates.

BugBear


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## scrimper

AES":3k5tz500 said:


> Nothing wrong with any of that, on the contrary, but I shall certainly follow up on those links and look for one or two of those old Handbooks. The 1940's one looks interesting but I thought it a bit pricey - I dunno, perhaps it's more of a collector's item, which I'm not, but at nearly 30 quid + postage I thought it a bit steep - but anyway thanks for posting, I'm sure I'll find something suitable via those links and other searches.



Don't pay £30 for an old Hobbies annual, that is way to much, they are not actually worth much to most people, only a few people are interested in old hobbies handbooks and even then they have to be pre 1940's to be of any real value to a buyer.

I speak as someone who has collected old Hobbies handbooks for over 50 years, the most I would pay for one would be a Maximum of £10 and even then it would have to be in really good condition and pre 1935, some ebay sellers do ask silly prices for old Hobbies handbooks but they never actually sell them at those prices. 

If you keep a lookout on ebay the old handbooks are sometimes offered at low prices and often there are very few buyers interested in them.

The last official Hobbies annual was printed in 1968 just before Hobbies was wound up. Any handbooks since then are from a new Hobbies company which are not of any value at all (apart from paying £2.50 for the new Hobbies annual published these days, which do not become valuable) The thing to remember is that the original Hobbies company was a wonderful organisation employing huge numbers of workers who manufactured their own items in their factory at Dereham, they also had a design team who produced wonderful fretwork designs every week.

I am not running down the new Hobbies company, it's good that they exist and nice to keep the brand name going, I use them myself they were started By the late Ian Stroulger who originally worked for the old Hobbies company but the new Hobbies were never in the same league as the old company and basically just sold item that they bought in.


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## AES

Thanks for the tip scrimper. I did think that 30 quid for a 1940 Hobbies Annual was OTT - for me anyway, as I'm certainly not a collector, just interested a bit in (some) old stuff - and I s'pose, as a way of bringing back old memories - I used to use an old Hobbies treadle fret saw when I was about 10 years old.

I'll just keep a lazy eye open for old Hobbies Annuals but I'm not a regular visitor to the infamous bay, no rush.

BTW, if it's any help to the OP and to the recent poster, a Portuguese chap with excellent English, as I remember it, the treadle fret saw I used had metal not wooden arms - I think that right anyway, and that's a definite maybe!!!

AES


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## scrimper

Duarte, is this diagram any use to you?


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## loftyhermes

There's an Imperial up for auction now on you know where.


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## Viking

Duarte,
Here is some information to get you going:

The wooden arms seem to be a close grained pine or cedar. The measurements are: Length 21 5/8" 549mm, thickness 5/8" 16mm, 
width tapers from 1 13/16" 46mm to 13/16" 20.5mm.

The blade fittings at the end of the arms appear to be indentical to the ones on the hand fretsaw shown previously on this site.

The connecting rod is a beautifully die cast brass piece fitted with a miniature ball bearing at the big end and it has a plain bore of 1/4" at the small end running on a plain steel shaft wher it connects to the wooden arm via a bracket.

The conrod has a centre to centre distance of 3 3/8" 85.8mm. The ball bearing is made by Pollard and has the following dimensions: Outside diameter 7/8", bore 3/8" and is 3/16" deep. It has been fitted by heating the brass casting slightly to allow for an interference fit or press fit. The conrod could be copied in brass, steel or aluminium.

I will send some photos later. let me know what else you need.

Best regards, Dagfinn


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## Viking

Hi Duarte,

Here is the photo of the brass con rod:


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## Viking

Here are further photos of the arms and fittings:





















I hope this is helpful.

Best Regards, Dagfinn


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