# wadkin PK restoration



## wallace

Hi all, after getting the saw recently I couldn't wait to start takeing it to bits. The first task was getting it off the trailer, I rigged up a big joist to hoist it up and pull the trailer out































The gears were thick of crud so gave them a little clean to check for wear.






One good thing about this saw is that it was used in a commercial business so has a really good brake fitted.

Mark


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## yetloh

Lovely, really look forward to seeing it progress.

Jim


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## adidat

wallace":11zaik4k said:


> The gears were thick of crud so gave them a little clean to check for wear.





(homer) (homer) mhmmmmmm

nice shiny gears

keep it up

adidat


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## AndyT

That's some serious crud removal - what did you use? Power washer? Scrubbing brush? Air line?
Presumably there was no wear on those gears.


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## wallace

Hi Andy, all I used was compresed air then some spray degreaser and a paint brush and more air. The gears are exactly the same as what was used on the boreing machine I have. There was no noticeable wear.
I managed to get the base in the shed today, took a bit of doing. I put a big rawl bolt in the floor and to hook a hoist on, then I levered the base on some joists with some oil on and it slid quite well. That was untill my father in law came to help! And managed to make it fall onto its side :roll: luckily I had removed the soft aluminium stuff. Still snapped a bolt.
















This bit was pretty heavy






I have a little dilemma aswell, because I got this saw swmbo says I may aswell sell my other wadkin saw. Plus I'm running out of space. Maybe I should extend my workshop and keep both saws.

Mark


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## yetloh

wallace":26ccxiap said:


> Maybe I should extend my workshop and keep both saws.
> 
> Mark



Of course you should!

Jim


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## Tony Spear

yetloh":13jgc8fs said:


> wallace":13jgc8fs said:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I should extend my workshop and keep both saws.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you should!
> 
> Jim
Click to expand...


Don't be daft, of course he shouldn't!
He should donate one of them to a deserving cause!
After me in the queue................................ :mrgreen:


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## wallace

Hi all, I started takeing the blade raise mechanism to bits today. It was totally seized so I was panicking incase it was something serious.











50 years of grease 











The cotter pin that holds the gear on its shaft was snapped, I think someone must have put a bit much pressure on trying to raise the blade when it was seized. Luckily no damage, just got to find a new pin.






Mark


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## wallace

A few bits of the blade raise mechanism degreased, cleaned and ready for paint.






I think it is a bit of a design flaw from wadkin in that the threaded shaft that raises the blade can accumulate dust in the top of the female bit which fills the threads and stops it working.
Mark


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## jimi43

Nice job so far Mark.....

I look forward to the rest of the restoration and the christening!

Cheers

Jim


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## wallace

Hi all, did a bit more. I put the shaft on the lathe to clean it up.






I then buffed the bit that is seen with polishing compound











Thats the gears for the blade raise all sorted






I'm really enjoying this restoration. Apart from my father in law keeps appearing and giveing his words of wisdom. Can you remember that Harry enfield sketch, 'you dont wanna do it like that you wanna do it like this' :roll: 
Mark


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## Teckel

Your flying it Mark. A great job. All those lovely shiny bits


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## jimi43

This is my kind of restoration....wonderful stuff Mark! =D> 

Jim


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## wallace

A little more, The blade raise mechanism has some adjusters to take up any slack.






I started the handwheel






There were lots of dents so I put it on the lathe and went through the grits






Mark


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## wallace

I have a dilemma, when I cleaned the the saw it came up quite well. All my other wadkin stuff was either rusty or covered in hammerite. I quite like it with its working clothes. I dont know wether to make it all pristine or just make everything work smoothly. What do you think?






Heres the blade tilt angle indicator






mark


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## jimi43

I'd get this one pristine and working beautifully...take a rest break and think about it and then start again when the enthusiasm to do so is maximum again

Jim


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## wallace

Thanks Jimi, I have plenty of enthusiasm and would be in my workshop all day if I didn't have to look for a job and do my man chores. The problem I'm haveing is that its in good original condition once all the crud has been removed. I think I'm leaning towards it been like new or better. If I can get it half as good as Jacks I will be pleased.
Mark


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## t8hants

If a machine has a bit of history its nice to see some of that retaind. The main casting seems in excellent condition only slightly faded, and I like to see details like the shop number 21. You are doing a superb job on the mechanism let the casting reflect that, as its not so scruffy as to look bad and will not detract from your restoration.

Gareth


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## SammyQ

I agree with Gareth, Mark; this Wadkin looks the ticket as it is. The number adds authenticity too. My AGS had tonnes of rust and mice excreta, there was no option but to strip, fill, prime, paint. .

Where are you in County Durham? I'm breezing through next weekend to attend son's graduation in Durham town and if It's not too presumptuous, I'd love a quick gawk at the beastie? 

Sam - the cheeky one.


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## SammyQ

Edit - goofy repetition post. Doh!


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## wallace

Hi Sam I'm in Spennymoor it's about 6 miles from Durham. Your more than welcome to visit
Mark


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## wallace

I spent a few hours derusting nuts and bolts ready to polish up.
This is the door for the electrics, its cast ali and pretty messy.







Cleaned the paint off and sanded it abit


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## Retired

Hi,

Beautiful bit of kit Mark and very well done so far with its restoration. They don't come any better than Wadkin and I'd be interested to learn what motor is fitted as Brook's where I worked supplied 1,000's of motors to Wadkin.

Have you seen the following Mark:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CshzDpA4AXs

Keep up the good work and kind regards, Col.


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## Blister

> Have you seen the following Mark:



:shock: :shock: :shock: 

No Blade guard , No riving knife , No dust extraction , no face mask , no eye protection :shock: 

I would need to count my finger if I used it :?


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## Hardwood66

Blister":3vx72sk5 said:


> Have you seen the following Mark:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> No Blade guard , No riving knife , No dust extraction , no face mask , no eye protection :shock:
> 
> I would need to count my finger if I used it :?
Click to expand...



Agreed


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## jhwbigley

Hardwood66":3eg0fbwk said:


> Blister":3eg0fbwk said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you seen the following Mark:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :shock: :shock: :shock:
> 
> No Blade guard , No riving knife , No dust extraction , no face mask , no eye protection :shock:
> 
> I would need to count my finger if I used it :?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed
Click to expand...


ah! But have you seen Jack's PK now it's finished? Fitted with original crown guard and riving knife. 

He is also firm believer of using short fences when ripping and riving knives. 


That's going to be one mean saw when it's done Mark. 

JH


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## wallace

Hi Col. that clip is Jacks PK before he "jackified" it. Heres it when he finished it http://www.machinejunkie.com/forum/view ... 3e1aa031dd

I dont know how long it took him but the standard of work is immense. I'm really enjoying every moment of this restoration. Its getting alittle cramped in my workshop and thats before I bring the table top inside. I may have to get rid of my lovely sagar saw. I've had it fifteen years and just restored it a couple of months ago.


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## adidat

Jack's work is something else!

nice to see your saw coming along, a small tip for household chores. when asked to hoover do it so badly they wont ask you to do it again :lol:

adidat


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## SammyQ

Mark? PM sent in next two mins. sam


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## wallace

Hi adidat, the mrs has been unwell for six months now so I've had to 'man up' or 'wifey up' and do everything. I'm quite domesticated now


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## Hardwood66

Yea his restoration is second to non I was just going off that video that was posted


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## adidat

good on you man,

i will be honest, today i went into the kitchen and did some washing up. my granddad was over the moon until he realised i was degreasing some freshly turned parts for a glue up :lol:


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## wallace

:lol:


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## Retired

Hi Mark,

Many thanks for the update on Jacks PK. That is one serious restoration of the highest calibre we can all aspire to. Your saw is coming along a treat and I bet you can't wait to push the start button; one thing is for sure it won't walk around the workshop whilst sawing a bit of 1"x2".

Sagar and Dominion used to make substantial machines as well and I too owned a Sagar but mine was a radial arm. I also owned a big Dominion lathe and as I'm from a mechanical engineering background I owned a rather nice Colchester Triumph lathe. It reached the stage in my garage that I could no longer move without bumping into a machine so I had a clear out which brought a tear to my eye and a lump to my throat.

The problem now Mark is can I resist doing more machine restorations after seeing yours and Jacks? If only I had a warehouse.

Kind regards, Col.


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## jimi43

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: 







:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: 

Gob-smacked!

Jim


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## Hardwood66

It's a beaut if I had the space and money I would send him some machines


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## houtslager

Hardwood wrote

"It's a beaut if I had the space and money I would send him some machines "

well Sir, if had enough money I'd buy from him AFTER he restored a couple monsters for me. 

Old Wadkins, Sagars, Robinsons, SCMs, Harwies and a few more good makers I've forgotten to mention, made old iron to LAST.

Unlike most of todays makers 

Karl


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## wallace

Hi Karl thats why I buy old wadkin and sagar stuff. most people cant see the potential but a couple of weeks work and you have something 100 times better than I could afford if buying new. I spent 4hrs buffing some nuts and bolts today.











Mark


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## condeesteso

Not everyone's idea of beauty, but I love them. You're lucky to have the space (and the gear to move it). Really well engineered, so no surprise at all that under the crud, it is going to be excellent. Someone told me recently that the reason Wadkin (original) went bust is because they made everything too well... i.e. it would never need replacing.
Re the restoration personally I'd go for excellent technically, clean original cosmetics. You can always go further later, but it's hard to undo a make-over.


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## SammyQ

Right Lads. I've just seen this baby in the metal and I've got to tell you all, she's beautiful. Mark (Wallace) is doing a simply superb job in all aspects of the restoration and he would make the foundrymen, machinists and inspectors who assembled it well chuffed, were they alive today. I was priveleged to see his other restorations and I have to say, the sliding surfaces are silk-like and the graduations and marks are crystal clear. Go enjoy, that man!

Sam


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## wallace

Spent a good while prepping the saw today, all the little dings and casting inperfections sanded.







Then a good hoover of the workshop and extractor on for an hour ready to zinc prime.






I also cleaned up the wadkin writing with a dremmel


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## wallace

Sprayed the saw today, Not too happy with the paint. When I got the paint mixed I asked for some matting to be added so the paint wasn't glossy.


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## wallace

Update, managed to get the tilt mechanism put on. It was pretty heavy. Then started putting the bits that are done back on.






I have found a problem with the tilt gears. I did not remove these, just cleaned them in situ. When I turn the wheel to tilt, it does not feel right, very stiff. I dont know what it should be lubricated with if anything. After a couple of goes I noticed a brightness on the brass screw gear and a little swarf. Now thats not correct is it.
















There is no adjustment that I can see, there are two nuts on top of the screw gear but I cant see how they could do anything. Any ideas anyone?
Do you think it should be greased?
Mark


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## dickm

Not sure, but it looks from the pictures as if the worm is not exactly tangential to the gear wheel. I THINK this would cause the teeth/worm not to mesh correctly, making the movement very stiff and the gear will in effect be trying to grind the brass worm to fit? But don't know how you would adjust to correct for this.


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## wallace

Hi Dick, It all seems to move freely when it doesn't have the weight of the motor and tilt. It moves pretty good at first then stiiffens up. I cant see how to adjust it.
Mark


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## wallace

I think I may have sussed it. I found the manual and it says the worm gear should be greased. Will give it ago tomorrow.


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## tool613

Mark

I can't see if you have the motor back on ? the tilt on the pk is well balanced in the first half of rotation. If you don't have the motor in that will make it hard to rise the trunnon/ blade enclosure(the weight of the motor helps with the tilting balance). the wheel is big for that reason(not like you are tipping a 10" blade). and with mine it takes two hand to get from about med way to 45 dregs. I think the manual is talking about the rise and fall bull grear for grease. You do not want to lube the open works there as it will gum up with dust(Wadkin went to the trouble to make that oil bronzes gear so grease was not needed). Try a dry lube or like i did spray it with T9.Oil on the trunnon after a good spray with T9 is the place for oil(light machine oil like 3in one). The Pk is a Pattern maker saw that is built to engineering standers and tolerances. everything fits very close so it's a little stiffer than you may be use too. It should be stiff but smooth.

the saw is looking very nice so far Mark. I have been hard at work in the shop on a big job and i have not have the time to comment. I have be looking in on you . I am enjoying watching you work on the best saw every made.Welcome to the PK club.

jack
English machines


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## wallace

Hi Jack thanks for the input, My first thought was as you say dont use grease on the worm gear because it will collect dust and gunk up. When I turn the wheel it feels grindy? I had a look on daltons site for the PK manual and it says grease for the worm gear. And grease for the gearbox on the blade raise.

http://www.daltonsmachines.com/uploads/ ... Manual.pdf

What do the two nuts do on top of worm gear, is it purely to hold the shaft or does it alter anything?

Mark


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## tool613

Mark

The oiler on the face of the the crank casting runs to an oil bath just below the bronses grear(this could be full of dirt). the 2 nuts on top (one a jam nut) hold the gear to the shaft. Do not grease the bull grease but only the gears under the bronzes gear. I would take it apart and clean the oil bath. 




Was the oil cap missing in front ?

jack
English machines


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## wallace

Hi Jack thanks for that. I will take it to bits and clean, see if that improves things. I gave the handwheels a few coats of paint, it took longer to mask them up then to paint.





Mark


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## houtslager

looking damn good so far

K


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## wallace

Thanks K, A little warning to anyone wanting to put bits of painted metal in the house oven to harden off. Don't do it the wife really does not like it.  
Mark


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## SammyQ

Mark, you are married how many years and you have only now discovered this.....? :-" 

Sam


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## houtslager

PMSL 

KPMSL 


K


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## tool613

Speaking of hand wheels::::::::::::::::::::

this joke come to mind.

A ship captain go into the bar with the ship wheel down the front of his pants.

The bar tender asks" What with the ship wheel in the pants"?

Captain reply's "ARRRR she driving me nuts"

ANON


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## wallace

Sam weve been together 23 years but married 11. I'm the one that does the cooking, so thats why I think I've got away with it for so long. It was a bit smelly. She doesn't normally notice when I put bits of metal in the freezer to shrink or oven to expand them.
Jack dont give up your day job :lol: 
Mark


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## SammyQ

Mark, I quite sympathise, really. I 'm trying to decide if I dare buy some ashphaltum and turpentine to re-japan an old Bedrock plane I picked up years ago and for which I need the oven to polymerise the japanning...Its electric, the oven I mean, so no risk of ignition of vapours, but I can't guarantee the same will hold in human terms if I do it without clearance from Meggie [-( . 

Sam


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## jimi43

SammyQ":3cxe9hbr said:


> Mark, I quite sympathise, really. I 'm trying to decide if I dare buy some ashphaltum and turpentine to re-japan an old Bedrock plane I picked up years ago and for which I need the oven to polymerise the japanning...Its electric, the oven I mean, so no risk of ignition of vapours, but I can't guarantee the same will hold in human terms if I do it without clearance from Meggie [-( .
> 
> Sam



Hi Sammy...

The recipe I have for cold japanning is asphaltum and marine varnish. Do you have one for "hot" japanning?

Jim


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## thick_mike

SammyQ":3kbjkaqg said:


> Mark, I quite sympathise, really. I 'm trying to decide if I dare buy some ashphaltum and turpentine to re-japan an old Bedrock plane I picked up years ago and for which I need the oven to polymerise the japanning..*.Its electric, the oven I mean, so no risk of ignition* of vapours, but I can't guarantee the same will hold in human terms if I do it without clearance from Meggie [-( .
> 
> Sam



I would not count on it. The ovens we used in the paint industry were all EX rated. Non EX rated ovens definitely have a risk of explosion.


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## SammyQ

Mick, point taken.  

Jimi, there are various brews around; most centre round a slow drying organic solvent evapourating, leaving behind the dissolved, or suspended, ashphaltum in a solid state. Some authors - Derek Cohen for one - have speeded up the proces by using heat. In Derek's case, this was of course the blistering Aussie sunshine, but I think a hotplate borrowed from work, on a long extension lead, in the open air, might be safer and emulate the Perth infra-red. Belfast just does not have the solar cachet needed..... 

Sam


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## wallace

Hi all, spent some time after sunday lunch playing in my workshop.












The inside of the blade cover came up quite well with one of those brass rotary brushes that go in a drill






All prepped and zinc primed





















This is the first id plate that I have found on a machine that is in really good condition. Normally I would polish them, but I left this one enamelled.






Mark


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## Stormer1940

Nice Mark... You can have a go at my PK if you want :lol:


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## wallace

Nick, I seem to spend more time messing about with metal things than useing them for their intended purpose  I do enjoy it. I think it helps to know how something is built. Then you know how to fix it if its not working correctly.
Mark


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## Stormer1940

I agree. You do need to know but when the machine is being used daily it's hard to be able to do anything like that. Catch 22... I'm assuming it takes alot more shop space up as well?


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## wallace

Since I started this I haven't been able to do anything else because every worktop is covered in parts. I have to bring the top in yet, then I will see if theirs room to swing a cat. Or I might have to get rid of my Sagar bench. I have permission off swmbo to make my workshop bigger, so then I will be able to have my cake and eat it. I was toying with the idea of useing the sagar with a moulding head.


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## wallace

I sprayed the blade cover first thing this morning.











This is how I clean the parts, This is the blade boss and nut







I then clean it with a brass wire wheel on the grinder






I then buff it with a fairly hard mop that has silverline red compound on it.






Heres a close up of the tag which is in really good condition






I managed to put the blade cover on, the paint was still a bit soft so had to be carefull






I then had a go at bringing the top in from outside, it was reasonably easy






I'm gonna need a couple of strong friends to help me lift the table on






Mark


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## wallace

After cleaning and painting the underneath I hoisted the top up and rolled the saw under it.






I then degreased and prepped ready for paint






I then gave the top a shave






Mark


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## wallace

Had quite a productive day, after I'd done my chores I went for a play in the shed.

Firstly I cleaned the table with a brass rotary brush






Then I finished it off with one of those green scrubber things, Its not exactly how I want it so will do some more work on it later.







Next the slideing table.

















It has quite a few dings in it.






This is the carriage which the table slides on, cleaned primed and painted.






This is the handle which locks the slideing table.






It was pretty dented so I sanded it with a power file






These are the bearings the table rides on, they are seated on a little cam so if there is any wear it can be rotated to reduce any slop. They haven't been moved in donkeys and the grease was solid so they are getting a soak in parafin.







Mark


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## yetloh

I can only say I am filled with admiration for what you are doing here. It's going to look fantastic and be a real asset to your workshop.

Jim


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## Phil Sewell

Really enjoying this Mark, keep the images coming!

Phil.


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## wallace

Thanks chaps, I'm really enjoying this one


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## wallace

When I pollish a piece I treat it like wood really. Start off at the right grit then work through the grits before finishing on the mop with compound. Heres the lever finished






I degreased and cleaned the bearings and then reassembled the carriage.






Does anyone know what the shiny bit is in the middle of the carriage, It has half a thread and the other half thread is in the carriage. The carriage has a hole going through the base which lines up to it.

I managed to get the slideing table back on. It was heavy. It needs adjusting to make it the same height as the main table. Can you remember the film jaws 'gonna need a bigger boat'. I didn't realise how big the saw is.






Mark


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## Benchwayze

"Oh what a beauty... I've never seen one as big as that before!" (Quote Alan Breeze, Vocalist, Billy Cotton Band) !!! :mrgreen: 

Fantastic job. A lovely bit of cast iron and steel. Nice job.  
)


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## wallace

I took the crown guard height adjuster to bits today.
















I started to clean and pollish.


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## wallace

A little more, This is one of the shafts that hold the crown guard. I put it on the lathe to clean up


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## wallace

All prepped and primed






Then about six coats of enamel


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## wallace

Todays efforts.


























Next job is the fence, I've been saving this till last. The fence on this is quite nice 
















Half an hour all in bits






This saw must have had some muppet operators, Ideally I would like to get it machined but got no pennies for such things.


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## dickm

Might it be worth hand scraping that fence? Surprising how fast and how accurately you can scrape most CI.


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## wallace

Hi there, some are quite deep maybe 3mm. I've never tried scraping is it hard? What tools would I need. I will usually have a go at most things.
Mark


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## houtslager

looking great,
wish I had one too.

K


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## Racers

Hi, Mark

I would fill them with epoxy, you can get some metal loaded stuff that would be a good colour match.

Pete


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## Benchwayze

You could always fit a sheet-aluminium false fence to cover it. Scrapyards maybe? 
I agree though, epoxy is one way I might go. :idea:


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## condeesteso

That is looking very nice indeed, fine job. And given a Wadkin lasts for ever, worth the effort. One day the fence may get a face grind, but personally I'd bang an mdf face on for now.


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## SammyQ

Pictures two and three.....is that "Thing" giving you 'a hand'?


Sam


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## dickm

Hand scraping 3mm would be a labour of love! Basically, a metal scraper looks like a totally blunt chisel, with the end ground off to form a 3mm flat. It's used a bit like a paring chisel, but with the handle raised about 20 -30 degrees from the horizontal. Really only for final fitting or levelling of metal surfaces that are only a few tens of thou out. 
In your case, grinding, or hiding the damage under a wooden sub-fence seem the most practical options.


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## wallace

Today I cleaned all the machined surfaces, obviously I dont use anything that will alter the surfaces. I then prepared all the other metal parts ready for pollishing by sanding all the little dints down to 360 grit.







I cleaned up the face of the fence and it came up prety well, its a shame about the damage. I think I will use some kind of liquid metal or epoxy.






Sam I sometimes wish thier were some more hands to help. I always manage but it just takes me longer to work out how to lift something heavy.

Mark


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## adidat

what about some quarter sawn cocobolo for a false fence to really give it the jack effect? :lol:

but its coming along great

adidat


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## wallace

I was thinking of useing a nice bit of timber, My budget doesn't go to cocobolo. I do have mahogany, ash, maple, oak, beech. A bit boreing but will have to do.


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## SammyQ

Mark, you can get an epoxy with metal particles or dust in it. "JB Weld" I think it's called. Its finished colouration is similar to the colour of your fence and would blend in the scratches. The other alternative, though this can look a bit 'bodged', is to copy what folks do to busted planes, a bit of braze or solder? Brazing normally finished brassy, but a careful choice of solder - not the electrical type - can colour match quite well.

Sam


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## wallace

Thanks Sam, I hadn't thought of brazing or solder. On the big section of table there is a casting fault which has been filled and machined with some kind of white metal.
mark


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## wallace

Heres the fence all cleaned up, came up quite well.






Did some polishing today, this lot took me 4 hrs











The saw came with half of the quadrant which is in very poor condition, I think it must have been left in a puddle for years because it is very pitted.






Mark


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## dickm

Having seen the fence polished up, why bother to fill the scores? To me, they are just honourable scars from providing service to the occasional cack-handed operator! My fear would be that any attempt to fill/braze or otherwise deal with them might make them more noticeable.


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## wallace

Hi Dick, my only concern was that when cutting something the damage at the end of the fence might cause the piece to cut wrong. Do you think that might be an issue?
Mark


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## J. Vibert

My first post here in the ukworkshop, and I can think of no better way to use it then to say thanks Mark. 

I very recently became the lucky owner of the PK myself, which is a pretty tough find in Canada, and during the weeks before I picked it up from the seller, I endlessly searched the internet looking for others who have taken on this project. I found your thread then, and just now have been linked back to it by Sam. So now that I'm registered I can openly thank you for providing something else other than Jack's PK to admire. I swear I've been to the end of the internet and back again, and you're the only other PK restoration I've been able to find.

I had the pleasure of stopping in on Jack during my return trip from picking up my PK (1400km round trip). He was kind enough to give me the Canadian Wadkin Temple tour, and even let me take a pass on his PK. I had seen the pics and watched the videos, but nothing compares to actually spinning a PK up and taking a rip.

Rest assured I'll be watching your progress from afar, and please don't leave out the little details.

Jarrett


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## Benchwayze

Wal, 

The scars are part of the saw's faithful service yes, and maybe if they were not going to interfere with accuracy, I'd leave them. But otherwise the best idea might be some kind of false fence to make it flat, and use thus while you save up for a regrind. 

Just my opine!


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## Jamesc

Benchwayze":1uawj82x said:


> Wal,
> But otherwise the best idea might be some kind of false fence to make it flat, and use thus while you save up for a regrind.



You don't realy need ti fence re-ground it would be better to fly cut it in a milling machine. Do you have anyone in your area that will skim cylinder heads. Essentially it is the same job. Another way may be a local college. Ours runs evening classes and for around £100 you get twelve evenings. with a little help in setting up you should be able to skim the fence in an evening. Think of all the other things you could do with the rest of the time  

James


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## Benchwayze

Well James, 

As I am not a metal-worker as such, what I meant was just getting the face trued up. But looking at some of the deep scars, it would need more than a 'skim' to make good.

Personally, if I could find a way of mounting the fence dead-level on a cross-slide, under an overhead router, I'd use that; just keep nibbling away with an appropriate cutter. Maybe leaving a 'machine-turned' finish? A sort of Faberge fence. Yep?


----------



## tool613

Mark
your doing an amazing job on the PK. As for your fence I would add wood for the through cut but because the fence plate is sliding why not just reshape the end of it by removing a bit of its length. Looks like a 1/2" is all that is needed to clean up the main damage. The cross section of the fence with its deep dovetail ways don't leave a lot to surface on the plate and I would be concerned that the plate would warp if to much material was removed by surface ground or mill. Cast is soft as metals go and you should be able to reshape the end with a hand held angle grinder and a drum sander for the blade curve. Don't let the cast get to hot and do not quench it in water to cool. The best way is to lay it on the cast table to suck the heat out slowly between hand grinding the end. Just my thoughts and not the only way but something you could do yourself. Keep up the great work its turning out to be a master piece.


jack 
English machines


----------



## dickm

Can't see that those scars are going to interfere with use, PROVIDED they don't have ridges on either side of them. If they do, that could cause minor jamming, but the ridges would also be very easy to scrape out. Like others, I'd be very wary of any unnecessary severe milling/grinding/surfacing, because of the danger of the whole thing distorting, even with great care. Have a look at the worries about heavy fettling of plane soles in the hand tool forum!


----------



## wallace

Hi all, I am undecided as to what to do with the fence. Like Jack wrote I dont think grinding would be an option because of the deep rebates in the back. Heres a pic of the casting fault on the table, does anyone know what it is and how its done. Is it silver solder?






I added some wood to the edges, I think its wenge






And then did some spraying
















Jarret welcome to the forum. What kind of condition is your PK in. Does it have the quadrant and protractor.

Mark


----------



## tool613

wallace":k6j3k129 said:


> Heres a pic of the casting fault on the table, does anyone know what it is and how its done. Is it silver solder?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark




Mark 

what you have there is a nickle weld you may not have noticed but it does not rust. This type of weld is a stick/arc weld. How it would have be done was a Nickle rod(probably 99 rod AKA cast rod was used) was used to build up a void in the cast before any machining was done. A nickle weld is a good weld for cast and i have used it to repair broken casting. The problem with nickle weld is it can distort machine part if not carefully done. short 1" welds peened with a hammer while cooling is how it is done. I have some in the RM tables





this is my first try at cast welding. I used nickel 99 cast rod so I could work the welds after.

I could use more practice welding ,but I am not to proud to show you. every one starts at the beginning
looking for free tips from the pros?

I did a thread on cast repair thread while back that my be usefull.
http://www.owwm.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=91674&hilit 















jack
English machine


----------



## Jake

I've got a pot of stainless steel powder filled epoxy of which I used a fraction for my kitchen worktops. It won't match the cast iron so closely but it isn't actually so shiny so it'll probably be a reasonable match. If you want to try it, PM me your address and I'll put a big blob in the post (even better if you have your own epoxy hardener)


----------



## wallace

Thanks Jake much appreciated


----------



## Noggsy

Jarrett, welcome to the forum. Enjoy.


----------



## wallace

I had to take kiddie shopping today so I only managed to get the fence put back together.
















I am nearly finished just a few odds and ends. I have to find somwhere to mount the big start/stop and brake box. Does any know if it is possible to operate the start/stop, say at a switch at the front but have the starter and brake hidden. The one that came with it is modern and fugly.

Mark


----------



## jimi43

This is coming along very nicely indeed Wallace!

You are on the right track and your consultation of the forum is a very wise way to go. It's all to easy to falter because of impatience and waiting, asking, deliberating before doing is always the best way!

Watching this thread with continued interest.....

Cheers

Jim


----------



## theowwm

That fence is looking very nice. I own four PK's. I imported three of them from the UK. I also recently acquired a PL. It looks very similar to the PK, but has a gear driven arbor and a tilting table. I watched Jack rebuild his PK and now watching this thread, I'm very tempted to tear into one of my saws. I agree with you on the electricals. The original switches had alot of character. It's a shame to have that modern box on the front of the machine. You can just put a starter inside the frame or mount a box on the back of the machine. Good luck on the rebuild.

-Arthur


----------



## J. Vibert

wallace":5ztfupvf said:


> Jarret welcome to the forum. What kind of condition is your PK in. Does it have the quadrant and protractor.
> 
> Mark



Thank you, and everyone else for the welcome.

My PK is in fairly good condition, and by that I mean it isn't suffering a damage that will affect it's performance. I was fortunate to be able to stop by Jack's (tool613) place on my drive home after picking up my first Wadkin, and other than some missing bits, he gave the thumbs up.  

The disappointing news is the lack of accessories that I'm suffering. It did come with a protractor, but that's pretty much it. Missing is the quadrant, either style of fence, the protractor slot filler pieces, and the release handle for the sliding table retaining pin. The interesting bit, is what else is missing from my PK.

I was disappointed that I was missing the fence extension that bolts on, but after Jack gave it a once over he pointed out that I'm also missing the small casted in section that's meant to be the mount for the crown guard post. It looks as though, mine is supposed to have the full sized right hand extension wing. I'd post a picture but I don't have the post count yet to allow it.

I of course will start my own thread here about the finer details of my PK restoration anyway, as to not hijack your thread, but you did ask, and I'm all to eager to talk about my first Wadkin... 

Keep up the great work...

Jarrett


----------



## jimi43

Welcome Jarrett and Arthur...nice to see some more members from across the boating pond! :mrgreen: 

Arthur...I take it you're part of that wonderful website by your nickname?

If so I owe you a huge debt of thanks for the help on the restoration of my Walker Turner belt sander..a US/UK hybrid from the last war!

Jim


----------



## theowwm

jimi43":112iihgm said:


> Arthur...I take it you're part of that wonderful website by your nickname?



Jim,
I am a member there. I have a few English (and American) machines posted. If you go to the photo archives, you can find some pictures of my machines.

I also try to keep a blog on my various endeavours at owwm . net

If you go to that link, there's a post that's somewhat relevant to this discussion. I recently made a batch of replacement split miter fences (quadrants) for the PK. Based on a recent request from a friend, I'm going to attempt the protractor as well.

Thanks for the kind welcome.

-Arthur


----------



## jimi43

theowwm":4o2n47yn said:


> jimi43":4o2n47yn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Arthur...I take it you're part of that wonderful website by your nickname?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jim,
> I am a member there. I have a few English (and American) machines posted. If you go to the photo archives, you can find some pictures of my machines.
> 
> I also try to keep a blog on my various endeavours at owwm . net
> 
> If you go to that link, there's a post that's somewhat relevant to this discussion. I recently made a batch of replacement split miter fences (quadrants) for the PK. Based on a recent request from a friend, I'm going to attempt the protractor as well.
> 
> Thanks for the kind welcome.
> 
> -Arthur
Click to expand...


AH! Yes...THAT Arthur! :mrgreen: 

I remember that one...I remember thinking it is a braver man than I who would rely on those straps!!! :wink: Probably a lot safer than it looks mate!

I notice there are few more Walker Taylor belt/discs 5510 up there now...I still have some questions relating to this machine but since it has been modified quite a bit to work with British power and belts....I don't really know if it's worth looking at US models. It certainly works and I use it a lot! Anyway...enough of my hijacking! Sorry Wallace! :wink: 

Jim


----------



## wallace

I spent 3 hrs giveing my workshop a good clean, everything was covered in a layer of dust and crud. I can now spend some time setting up the saw. Arthur I got sent a link to your website from jack. I'm very impressed by the quadrant you made. May I ask why four PK's. I very nearly got a RA H Lathe sometime ago but bottled it and went for the RS.
Mark


----------



## J. Vibert

wallace":6fvoqrkb said:


> Arthur I got sent a link to your website from jack. I'm very impressed by the quadrant you made. May I ask why four PK's. I very nearly got a RA H Lathe sometime ago but bottled it and went for the RS.
> Mark



Why 4 PKs....? Ask him why he has 70 some odd Whitney's.

Arthur's home brew quadrant for 'one' of his PKs is what encouraged me to buy my PK. The parts can be made if the effort is made.


----------



## theowwm

wallace":3u4eowfg said:


> May I ask why four PK's.



Sure thing. The first one was intentional. It was the saw with the left and right table extensions. I found it in a little shop out in Bideford. I had been searching for such a saw for years and none had turned up in the States. I just couldn't pass it up. The second and third saws were bought while I was stuffing a container in Felixstowe. I had purchased about ten machines and still had floor space to spare. One came up on e-bay, the other in a regular auction. The same thing happened with the PL. The fourth saw just turned up on Craigslist in the most unlikely of spots (Belaire Texas). I bought it and had it shipped to Somerset without knowing anything about it. The bottom line is that I love these saws. I still watch for a great deal on one. Now the number of PK's is nothing compared to the number of Whitney variety saws I own. I'm in the neighborhood of 54 right now (not 70, although that would be conceivable, and if you added up all the Whitney machines together, that's probably close to the truth). I still think the Whitney No. 177 variety saw with the rolling table is the nicest saw ever made, but they are so rare that finding one is highly unlikely (only four know in existence). Anyway, I love wathching these rebuild threads. Thanks for sharing.

-Arthur


----------



## J. Vibert

theowwm":2rr3fjf0 said:


> Now the number of PK's is nothing compared to the number of Whitney variety saws I own. I'm in the neighborhood of 54 right now (not 70, although that would be conceivable, and if you added up all the Whitney machines together, that's probably close to the truth).



My apologies to you Arthur for exaggerating the truth by repeating rumour. I definitely heard on a couple of occassions that you were up in the 70's with just the Whitney Variety Saw. Still my fault for speaking out turn though....



> Anyway, I love wathching these rebuild threads. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> -Arthur



Agreed.... We need more pictures...!!...lol.

Jarrett


----------



## wallace

Hi, I had a go at running the saw this morning  notheing happened. I looked inside the brake and somebody had started to unwire it, luckily I could tell where the wires were supposed to go. Plugged it in and it ran backwards (homer) . Switch wires and bingo.
Mark


----------



## J. Vibert

wallace":2nitza7j said:


> Hi, I had a go at running the saw this morning  notheing happened. I looked inside the brake and somebody had started to unwire it
> 
> Mark



Well that's awfully odd.... Did you purchase the saw from someone else who was attempting a restoration...? I can't think of any reason why someone would unhook the brake.?


----------



## theowwm

J. Vibert":3c2wucxu said:


> My apologies to you Arthur for exaggerating the truth by repeating rumour. I definitely heard on a couple of occassions that you were up in the 70's with just the Whitney Variety Saw. Still my fault for speaking out turn though....



No worries. When you see all those saws together it looks like there could be 70 (or even a hundred).

-Arthur


----------



## wallace

The saw came from a door makeing factory, that was closeing. All I can think of is that someone maybe tried to take it, I think there quite expensive. This one can stop the saw in 3 secs. Not that I've been a bit obsessed recently about my saw but my daughter made me this






Arthur, have you got any photos of your collection of iron. Some people may think you have obsessive compulsive disorder  

Mark


----------



## tool613

Tthat would have been my thought on the saw brake. not like there cheep and regulation so very useful for other machines

Wadkin jewelry? got to be a first. Very nice Mark.

jack
English machines


----------



## J. Vibert

I haven't seen any pics or cuts of the PK brake. Is it anything more than a resistor bank that sinks the motor's energy after power has been removed...? 

Now as far as jewerly is concerned... I thought I was going to receive an official Wadkin decoder ring in the mail once I bought the PK....? Guess I should stop holding my breath...


----------



## theowwm

wallace":15xzzv57 said:


> have you got any photos of your collection of iron. Some people may think you have obsessive compulsive disorder



Oh.. I definitely have an obsession with table saws. 

Here's a photo of my favorite machine;

The Whitney No. 177 Variety Saw with rolling table:







I have a number of those brakes lying around. As it turns out, they don't function very well at the higher voltage/frequency. I'm amazed by how much smaller they are than the dynamic brakes we typically find in North America.

-Arthur


----------



## tool613

Arthur
I love the way they did the crank handle to spred the tables. Its no left tilt is it ?thats just the tilt handle on the wronge side to pull for right tilt is it not. Show them your wadkin pattern mills Aruthur or the RU. 

j you have have 3 wadkins to get the ring right Mark.

jack
English machines


----------



## theowwm

tool613":19yren6r said:


> Its no left tilt is it ?thats just the tilt handle on the wronge side to pull for right tilt is it not. Show them your wadkin pattern mills Aruthur or the RU.



Jack, It's a right tilt. This is one of the best tilt mechanisms I've seen. That handwheel will free spin a couple of revolutions in either direction. I'm trying really hard not to completely hi-jack the thread. That said, I'll post more photos if folks want to see them.

-Arthur


----------



## wallace

Hi all I did some tweaking of the fence to make it at right angles to the table and then parallel to the blade. I also set the blade angle indicator too.






Heres a pic of the brake and start/stop, I have put it where the original switch was bolted it looks pants.





Jack is there a procedure for makeing the sliding table the same level as the main table






Heres some pics of the completed saw

















h

























It makes my Sagar rip saw look pretty small






Lastly a clip of it in action, the blade is the one that came with it and is pretty goosed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvaJruIM0k0&feature=plcp

Arthur, please feel free to hijack away


----------



## J. Vibert

The PK looks awesome wallace... congrats. 

That brake does a fantasic job off stopping that blade... =D> 

You wouldn't by chance have a nice close up shot of the slider release pin handle would you...? I'm making one from scratch, and I'm having a hard time finding a good reference pic to work from.



wallace":2r1zz8kr said:


>



Congrats again...

Jarrett


----------



## wallace

Hi Jarret, I have the brake set on its slowest setting because I did not know how my static converter would react.
Heres a pic of the handle, if you want something closer I will get it.






Mark


----------



## J. Vibert

That was the slowest setting...? Wow, it must stop on a dime when it's cranked to the max....

That pic is perfect... thanks

A question if you don't mind.... Are PK accessories difficult to source in the UK...? It's near impossible to find anything on this side of the pond.

Jarrett


----------



## wallace

Jarret, I get the impression that PK accessories are like rocky horse poo. I have seen one set of quadrant and protractor sell on ebay recently and they went for over £200. I am keeping my eyes open because I'm missing the protractor and half of the quadrant. Have you seen Arthurs page, http://www.owwm.net/
Mark


----------



## J. Vibert

I've read all of Arthur's blog several times now. I even wrote to him today via an email address I found on his site. Hopefully my message doesn't get caught up in his spam filter.

I believe my biggest problem isn't going to be the more standard accessories though. Now that I have enough posts I can show a pic that will explain better than I can.






As you can see from the pic above. Not only am I missing the usual fence out rigger, but I'm also missing the extra bit of table casting usually in place to mount the crown guard support. That particular piece never existed on my PK. I don't have a photo of it, but the machining along that edge of the table is continuous, so it doesn't appear to be a modification by a previous owner.

My PK was meant to have a full size extension wing off that side. The only other real world example of this model that I've been able to find is the first PK Arthur bought from the UK. I don't think this is his saw exactly, but it's the example he has posted on his website.






I'd settle for the fence out rigger for the short term, but I'd much rather have the full extension if I could ever find one... I was hoping my new found friends in the UK might be able to help me


----------



## theowwm

The PK accessories are nearly impossible to find. That's why I went down the road of making the reproduction quadrant. Jack recently asked me about the protracter and I've been considering that as a project for the near future. I made the master pattern for the split quadrant a little heavy from a block of cedar. I then had the foundry cast a set in aluminum. These are what I'm using for the master for all new castings. Getting rough castings made is no problem. I just need to drop the patterns at the foundry and wait six to eight weeks for the castings to be ready. The machining isn't all that difficult. The spring loaded locator pin on the left side will take some tome to reproduce, but the components are readily available from McMaster. If you already have the left side of the quadrant, then making the right side is pretty easy. You would need to reference the existing gauge since it might have variations over other generations/production runs (like the one I'm using for reference). The right side only has to match the pin holes height anf face location of the existing left side. I hope this makes sense. I' can picture the gauge in my head, something you might not be able to do if you haven't held one in your hand. 

Here's a picture of my reproduction gauge:





You can see it's a little heavier than the original. I added weight where I commonly see them broken.

I hope this helps.

-Arthur


----------



## wallace

That looks spot on Arthur, May I ask what is the purpose of haveing two adjustable fences? Mine has a crack and is very pitted.






There's one problem with the uk and that is that their is very little industry left. I doubt very much if their are any places that do castings anymore and if their is I bet its a kings ransome.
Mark


----------



## J. Vibert

I can't speak for Wadkin from the early 50's but I had it in my head that the second half was meant to allow easy, and repeditive set ups to cut tapers. The first half, like what you have Mark, locks at 90 degrees to the blade, and then you set your taper angle relative to it.

That's an assumption on my part, but it seems to work.

Jarrett


----------



## yetloh

Mark,

I think you might be surprised. I live on the south coast (not noted for its heavy industry) and there are a number of foundries in this area.

Jim


----------



## Teckel

Beautiful Mark well done..


----------



## Cheshirechappie

Mark,

It's not true that there's no industry left in the UK. There's a lot of industry about, but it's changed a lot in the last generation. Yetloh is quite right when he says there are foundries about, but many of them are geared for production runs, and some may not be keen on doing jobbing work, but you can find them. One of the reasons that this is so is because one-off castings are very rare in engineering these days (nobody will bear the costs of patternmaking for just one component), anything of the size of a mitre guide would be fabricated in mild steel - and herein may lie an answer to your problem. There are plenty of small fabrication shops about. You may even be able to make something up yourself, if you have a welding set. Design it carefully so that you do as much preliminary machining (cutting curved slots, etc.) before welding, then the final machining will be just skimming things true. If you can find a fab. shop that can anneal the fabrications for you after welding, even better - this will avoid any distortion on machining as thermal stresses set up on welding are released.

On the table alignment problem, you may be able to make and fit shims between the table and base castings to bring everything level. Make the shims so that they fit as close to the fixing bolts as possible, and of equal thickness all round each bolt to avoid any distortions to the table on applying bolt loads. Try temporarily wedging the tables true with the bolts released, then check each shim gap with feeler gauges to find how much each needs. You can buy shimstock from any good engineer's merchant - or on the web.


----------



## tool613

wallace":1aw3p0kj said:


> May I ask what is the purpose of haveing two adjustable fences?


there are probably 100 things i have not yet learned it can do but here are some.

the quadrant will lock in to presets.





it can be set to complimentary angles or mirror angles with one setting.





it can be locked near the front of the table for increased cross cut with 90 pin lock.


it can be used as a tenon jig with tapering of stock









not sure if all slider tables do this but the PK slides open for tapers of to 5".





Near the base of the table are the last few letters (TRE) it is off the main grid scribe. This etch set the double back miter front and back fence to 90. If you place the front fence in the miter(45 dregs) pre set and the back fence to the mark in the pic below the fences are set to 90 to each other and then can move in unison.







jack
English machines


----------



## theowwm

Here are few pictures of an unknown quadrant that came up on e-bay earlier this year. I'm not sure what saw this was for, but is had an interesting horseshoe extension. 
This sold for a relatively small amount of money and I kicked myself for not buying it:











Then there's this quadrant that I bought from Ben Rock a while back. At the time, I didn't know what it went to. Once I received it, I realized that it was for my Robinson ETE sliding table saw:






Finally, Here are a few shots of a universal quadrant I made to fit my Tannewitz JS slider. The pattern was made to fit both the Tannewitz and the Oliver 88/260 tables. 
The odd looking surface finish is from the hand scraping process:











-Arthur


----------



## J. Vibert

Hi Arthur. Is you "theowwm" email address still active...? I sent you an email a handful of days ago about your quadrant build.

Thanks

Jarrett


----------



## wallace

Hi all, thanks for the info Jack. Arthur you must have a really big workshop to house your collection of iron. I started cleaning the bit of fence I have. At some point someone has welded some angle iron to to extend it, is their a good reason to keep this modification or should I chop it off?











Unfortunately I had a little accident, The preset locating pin was bent so I thought I would take it to bits to straighten it. It didn't want to move with a punch so I heated it up and ended up snapping it (homer) 






Does anyone have the facilities to make me a new one? Just the bit on the right


----------



## J. Vibert

I have good news and bad Mark. I'm about to make several of those pins over the course of this weekend, and your welcome to one at no cost to yourself. The bad news is you'll have to cover postage which has the potential to be rather ridiculous, even for such a small item...lol. Let me know if you're interested.

Another option is to completely cut off that broken section, then drill and tap the remainder, and replace the broken bit with a regular bolt. Cut off the head and you're off to the races... The original owner of my PK cobbled together something like this on my saw. What happened to completely bust the original release for the silder I'll never know, and I really don't want to.







As far as the angle iron extension.... I'd cut it off. It's very unlikely that it's perfectly aligned with the Wadkin piece, and if you feel that it may prove to useful, clamping a piece of flat bar to the quadrant like Wadkin intended would be fairly easy.






Jarrett


----------



## JonnyD

Looking really good and an interesting thread

cheers

Jon


----------



## theowwm

wallace":1wjyjwkn said:


> you must have a really big workshop to house your collection of iron



The shop is about 1200 SQ FT on the first floor. I also have a carriage house that's roughly the same size. The Whitney saws are stacked three high (not the sliders).
Here's a picture of the shop:








wallace":1wjyjwkn said:


> The preset locating pin was bent so I thought I would take it to bits to straighten it. It didn't want to move with a punch so I heated it up and ended up snapping it...Does anyone have the facilities to make me a new one? Just the bit on the right



I need to make up three of those pins. It just might take me a while to get to it. Most of the parts can be bought from Mcmaster. It'll take some minor machine work to put it all together.

It's a real shame that the previous owner welded that angle iron to the quadrant. If that were mine, I'd carefully remove it and then reshape the end.



J. Vilbert":1wjyjwkn said:


> Is you "theowwm" email address still active...?



Yes it is. I don't get to check it much. I'm working 13 hour days right now. I'll try to get to it this evening.

-Arthur


----------



## wallace

Thanks Jarret I will keep you in mind, I was thinking in bed last night as you do, that I could have ago at doing it in brass on my wood lathe. Arthur that is one handsome workshop.
Mark


----------



## tool613

8)


wallace":1ec3aqhn said:


> I was thinking in bed last night as you do, that I could have ago at doing it in brass on my wood lathe.



A Wadkin fixing a Wadkin 8) .Don't you just love the RS Mark?
jack
English machines


----------



## J. Vibert

The RS is more than serious enough to turn mild or even hardened steel. Personally, I'd suggest either one of those materials over the brass. There's different grades of brass, but generally speaking I would consider it too soft for a locating pin. It wouldn't take much use to deform a brass pin and throw off your miter from 90.

Jarrett


----------



## theowwm

When I purchased my Wadkin PL slider, I received this small miter fence. This fits into the same slot as the regular rip fence on the main table. 
I'd be interested in hearing some opinions on the intended use. Also, whether this was an option on the PK.


















-Arthur


----------



## tool613

Arthur

Your PL is older than the PK. The PK being the first tilting spindle saw. The rare PJ double arbor(two blade rotating on a turret) belt driven Wadkin with the tilting top is its predecessor. Your's is a tilt top saw and gear driven. So as far a models goes PL came after the PJ and the PK and most likely was developed at the same time. The slider was on the PJ as was the tiling fence, so most likly your saw the PL was to cut aluminum and that is what that fence looks like it is for. It would not be the first time a woodworking firm has done/made a saw for this and at about a time of WW1 it would have be useful. What's the tag on the saw look like?is it Wadkin and Co? If its geared whats the RPM at the arbor?

here is the rare PJ





jack
English machines


----------



## CHJ

wallace":2dy41ps2 said:


> ......
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone have the facilities to make me a new one? Just the bit on the right




Have you sorted this yet? if not PM me. I would need dimensioned drawing or the original to copy.


----------



## wallace

Hi Chas, thanks got it sorted now  
mark


----------



## theowwm

tool613":3pxcgccs said:


> What's the tag on the saw look like?is it Wadkin and Co? If its geared whats the RPM at the arbor?



Jack, I've got the old brass tag with the prop on it. It looks like the original motor was a C-Face. The motor on it now is hanging from a fabricated bracket. Not sure on the RPM (I doubt it would be right anyway). I probably wasn't clear on the fence. My PL came with the small fence above, a protractor and a tilting fence that is very similar to my PK(s). Here's a few pictures of it:














-Arthur


----------



## wallace

Hi Arthur, that fence is the same as the pk's. What casting marks dose it have. Nearly everything cast has PK then a number in it. Sorry I dont know anything about the little fence you put on.
Mark


----------



## theowwm

wallace":3a14b4gq said:


> What casting marks dose it have. Nearly everything cast has PK then a number in it



Mark,
All the parts have "PJ" followed by a number. This would seem to indicate that the PL was in production at the same time as the PJ and possibly the PK. Jack, do you or Matty have any literature on the PL?

-Arthur


----------



## wallace

Did some work on the mitre fence today, whoever welded the angle iron on did a first rate job took me ages to get it off without damageing the surfaces.











Unfortunately got a bit carried away and prised the metal off takeing some of the cast fence with it.






I then spent some time cleaning the casting marks up abit.






The face came up quite well






It has a little crack, so that will need welding






Mark

I went to the beach a couple of days ago and found this fish flapping around at the waters edge, me being all nice decided to pick it up and put it back in the sea. Big mistake, it turned out to be a weever fish and it stabbed me with spine which was poisonous. Didn't half hurt


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## theowwm

Mark,
I'd say you did pretty good getting that weld job un-done. The weld appears not to have penetrated the cast iron too much. On the crack; I would weld that using some nickle or stainless wire. Not too much heat. I'm trying to figure out what the hole halfway between the arc and the left pin is for. Did they have any extra holes drilled in the table?

I once saw a turtle sitting in the middle of a busy roadway. I stopped to help it cross before it got run-over. As soon as I got within a few feet, it launched itself through the air and latched onto the knee of my carharts. I had a hell of a time shaking it off. No good deed goes unpunished.


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## wallace

I got the quadrant finished, with the very kind help of Jarret who made me a replacement pin. 











Arthur, that extra hole does not line up with anything on the table. So I dont know why it was done.
Mark


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## J. Vibert

It was totally my pleasure to help out Mark...  

I have apologize though.. I had no idea that the pin extended all the way through the cap...

Had I known I wouldn't have machined that flat edge as long as I did. I hope it still looks fine.

Just so everyone knows what I'm talking about... When I made the pin, I milled a flat edge on it so Mark could more easily mark and drill the hole needed for the retaining pin that fastens it to the cap.


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## wallace

Jarret you can barely notice the flat section. I had to remove a little of the widest part where it goes into the quadrant, I put it in the pillar drill and gave it a sand. Its a very snug fit and with a bit lube works nicely. Everything lines up nicely on the table.
Mark


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## jimi43

Hey Wallace....

Is that weaver fish to scale..... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Coat? Coat of paint?  

Jim


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## J. Vibert

wallace":37wak78s said:


> I had to remove a little of the widest part where it goes into the quadrant, I put it in the pillar drill and gave it a sand. Its a very snug fit and with a bit lube works nicely.



Excellent.... Like I said during our PMS. It's always better to have to remove a little then have to figure out how to add some.


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## wallace

Jim, I went to the same beach today and kept my eyes peeled for the weavers. They are horrible looking fish, they look like something from the cretacious. They lie still and then flick their fins out which have spines on them. The sting feels like a stinging nettle but times hundred.
mark


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## Tony Spear

wallace":2a0ky124 said:


> Jim, I went to the same beach today and kept my eyes peeled for the weavers. They are horrible looking fish, they look like something from the cretacious. They lie still and then flick their fins out which have spines on them. The sting feels like a stinging nettle but times hundred.
> mark



Mark, the worst bit is when you step on one!

DAMHIKT! :shock:


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## wallace

Have you had the misfortune to stand on one. Apparantly their more painfull than a box jelly fish and a ray. I'm pleased it only got my thumb.


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## condeesteso

Hi Mark... I haven't come back to this thread for some time as I have been busy. But what you are doing to that Wadkin is, I think, a rare thing. Somewhere between engineering and art there is a space that touches both. I know just a few who get it, and there are books about others who do or did. What you are doing here stands out... mighty bloody fine.


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## wallace

Hi Douglas, thanks alot for the kind words.
Mark


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## mtr1

Very good thread, the sort of thing I would like to have a crack at. I've been looking out on ebay for a suitable candidate with no luck, then I went to an old school timber yard yesterday and found three old wadkins under a tarp, a tenoner, overhead router, and a massive surfacer. I did take some photos, I'll post them if anyone is interested.


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## James C

That would definitely be interesting to see Mark.


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## houtslager

VERY MUCH SO please

K


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## wallace

Me three.


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## mtr1

Sorry, been busy at work, I will post pics shortly. I wouldn't know if they are any good or not, but I do know they could be for sale, but worth only scrap value I would of thought.


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## theowwm

Between this thread and the recent acquisition of the Wadkin PL, I've been inspired to go back and refine the quadrant patterns I made for the PK. I've managed to reduce the amount of work it takes to go from a rough casting to a finished quadrant.

Here's a photo of the original pattern:







And here's the refined version:






I've got a few more patterns to make and it'll be off to the foundry with these.


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## MickCheese

Arthur

I have no intention of making anything like this but would be very interested in the process of making these patterns and what is involved in getting them produced at a foundry.

Mick


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## Okami

I just signed up so I could congratulate you on this re-build! Magnificent machine.
When I left school I went to work in a timber yard (stantons timber, aka hunter timber). That old yard was full of Wadkin. We all got made redundant in the late 90's and the yard closed...I went off to college to further my skills in woodwork..
Now I'm a full time woodworker, I often wonder what happened to all those beautiful machines, and wish I could have a few of them  
Great thread!
Cheers!


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## wallace

Thanks Okami, welcome to the forum by the way


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## mtr1

Sorry for the delay, 2.5 year daughter hid the camera usb.

I only have pic's of the surfacer, and tenoner, but there was also a pin router. 















Looks like a lot of work to me.


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## wallace

That planer looks pretty straighforward, the tennoner a differant story.


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## mtr1

Be nice to see it Wallaced though....


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## wallace

:lol: 
Maybe I could do machine restorations for a job. I wonder?
Mark


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## mtr1

I think its worth a shot if you don't need to spend too much on set up. How many hours did the PK take? Times that by about £30, add the initial cost of the machine and see what the figure is, could the machine achieve that value?


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## wallace

I think it took me about 250 hours, so at £30 an hr I dont think someone would pay £7500 for a saw :lol: Saying that I have never earned £30 an hr in my life :roll:


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## mtr1

Well the £30 ph was what I thought you would need if you had business premises, website, insurance, etc. I dare say if you work from home you could work for much less, and still make a bob or two.


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## Benchwayze

wallace":1deyclyu said:


> I think it took me about 250 hours, so at £30 an hr I dont think someone would pay £7500 for a saw :lol: Saying that I have never earned £30 an hr in my life :roll:



Oh I don't know so much Wallace. People pay thousands for some of the Continental rubbish, and they're mostly combo machines, made of Aluminium and sheet steel. Well at lest they look that way. I would need to have a 'Feel... derrr..' to find out!!! :twisted:


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## theowwm

mtr1":3svc1f9x said:


> Looks like a lot of work to me.



That tenoner looks like an ECA. A very desirable machine. I've brought a lot worse looking machines home.


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## wotcars

Wow very impressed with the work done to the PK
one major thing thou is that brake is set to high if its stopping in 3 seconds
The brake should stop the machine in 9 /10 seconds 
At 3 seconds you are putting a lot of strain on the motor 
as a rule for its usually a maximum of 3 X run current to the brake current, So if the motor runs at 6 AMPs
The DC brake current should be a maximum off 18 AMPs

Not sure if you sorted the fence out but at 3 mm grooves in it a full skim across the face would be to much
as others have said you could get them welded them just a light skim across the face

Fantastic work job on the PK Ive rebuilt a few of these over the years as well as all other makes and types of woodworking machinery but could never justify 250 hrs on a machine


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## wotcars

wallace":f7jzy64u said:


> I think it took me about 250 hours, so at £30 an hr I dont think someone would pay £7500 for a saw :lol: Saying that I have never earned £30 an hr in my life :roll:



Your Pk market value is around £1500 to £1800 at the very top end 
Usally they go for under £1000

I rebuild, mend woodworking machines for a living , and if i spent 250 hrs on a machine I would be out of work as people would never pay for them 

just an useless piece of info 1966 a wadkin BRA X cut saw was the same price as a mini back then , so relatively speaking that would mean a New Crosscut today would be around £16000


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## wallace

Hi wotcar, have you ever seen jack forsbergs pk if his saw was for sale for £1500. I think there would a queue half way around the planet  Daltons the company that remanufacture wadkin machinery are selling a ags for £4500 and I think a pk far exceeds that machine. I agree that a pk normally goes for less than a grand. I've got three. But not everyone has the facilties and skills to take a machine to bits. Thanks for the advice about the brake and stuff, I altered the settings to reduce the strain being placed on the motor
Mark


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## MickCheese

wotcars":7mh0279n said:


> wallace":7mh0279n said:
> 
> 
> 
> just an useless piece of info 1966 a wadkin BRA X cut saw was the same price as a mini back then , so relatively speaking that would mean a New Crosscut today would be around £16000
Click to expand...


That's not useless that's quite interesting. By the way welcome. 

Mick


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## Phil Pascoe

No information can ever be called stupid. It's an oxymoron.


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## johnfreudenthal

Mark,

I'm a relatively new member looking for a PK. Can you assist me in locating then rebuilding a machine?

John


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## yetloh

wotcars":fqt35skj said:


> just an useless piece of info 1966 a Wadkin BRA X cut saw was the same price as a mini back then , so relatively speaking that would mean a New Crosscut today would be around £16000



Sorry to be a pedant but the contemporary Mini was a cheap car which the current Mini isn't. A better comparison would be with one of the current crop of cheap small cars which would put it at around £10k. Admittedly it wouldn't be made in the UK although it might be made in Europe.

Jim


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## condeesteso

Not been here for a while, but the finished saw looks absolutely brilliant (p9 will save time). I guess you got the blade sharpened by now - noticed the smoke coming off it on the video.
14.5k visits to this thread... shows there is still a bit of interest in good old Wadkin =D>


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## wallace

Hi Douglas, yes the blade got a few new teeth and sharpened and has been lovely to use for the last 18month or so. The saw has recently found a new home and I have dragged another one in from the garden to be done. One thing I do miss is the dc brake, without one the blade takes ages to run down. I think old wadkin is having a bit of a second life as all the woodworking companys are going belly up their is lot of old iron for the price of hobby machines.


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## condeesteso

Hi Wallace, I read the chat above re potential values. It's probably a sad fact that some of that old iron will go to scrap. Some time ago I got involved in finding the new home for the Wadkin belt-drive workshop in Minster, Kent. From memory 7 machines, (including a fine ready-to-go 3ph massive radial saw, and a 3ph tenoner, the rest being belt-drive). Richard Maguire acquired the lot for £3.5k and I always felt that was a good result all round as they found an excellent home and the alternatives (given the site needed to be cleared) were looking very gloomy indeed.
Nevertheless, if you could restore Wadkins like your ts for say £5k to £7.5, I feel there ought to be a small but strong market. I think up to a point the classic car market is a similar model, where only the best actual cars are worth the big labour investment of good restoration and then they command very high prices. So a Sunbeam Alpine will never be worth the many hours work to restore properly, but a similar age Alfa Guilia ss will be very well worth it (and they weren't a long way apart in cost when new). Hence, Wadkin is an excellent starting point (outstanding engineering and quality from the outset), and £5 - 7k for a ts this good is not unreasonable surely - how much is a big Felder (for example)?
And it has been said that one reason Wadkin got into difficulties was their machines never needed replacing. In other areas we hunt down (or save for) lifetime tools, so why not on a fine Wadkin??
Just save as many as you can, that's all. :lol: =D>


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## Flynnwood

condeesteso":283l7aqz said:


> it has been said that one reason Wadkin got into difficulties was their machines never needed replacing.



I was talking with a Gas Safe engineer (who is approaching retirement) fairly recently. 

He reckons that you can't buy a gas boiler today that will last more than 7 to 10 years. 

Then we got into the innards of the boiler, the case, the brand names, the country of origin of parts etc and how the "same" boiler can be 100% more expensive than the other (with the same innards) in the UK. And still have less than a 10 year life.

Twas an eye opening conversation .... regarding boilers.

@ Wallace - this guy from days gone by (before brakes) would run it down by pushing wood against the blade - see 4mins 30 secs in ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J054S1n_Dgw


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## wallace

I think its a no brainer not to get this old stuff I have spent maybe 3K on machines in the last 4 years and have a workshop that could pass for a pros even though I am purely a hobbyist. I think the hardest thing for most is finding the space. I have sold a couple of machines recently because 'my eyes were bigger than my belly' and things were getting cramped. But I am still toying with the idea of getting a wadkin pattern miller machine that's on ebay. It would mean I would have to extend my shed again but its a fantastic lump of iron. I have had a few people ask me to restore machines but the thing that stops things is the cost of shipping to Australia, America


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## Rhossydd

wallace":33ee2dcf said:


> I think its a no brainer not to get this old stuff


The problem is most of us don't have anything like enough room for these wonderful old beasts.


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## markturner

I was lucky enough to be the purchaser of the PK in this thread. It is indeed a lovely thing and Mark has done a great job in getting it to a working condition and bringing it back. 

I have been inspired by the restoration done by Jack (tool163) on his PK, and, as mine has been used and started to get a bit tired since the glory days of its initial refurbishment by Mark, I have decided to try and bring it up to something approaching the standard of Jacks restoration, if possible. I would like for example to remove the brake box, use some more attractive conduit for the cabling, replace old bolts and screws, make some replacements for the quadrant and get all the paint and brass really shiny.......

So, for all of you interested in this lovely piece of history, I will start another thread detailing my efforts shortly.

Happy New year guys, rgds, Mark


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## condeesteso

Of course Mark, befores and afters required. Unlike Rhossydd, you do actually have a bit of space I recall :wink:


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## markturner

No problem! The biggest issue is that virtually anything is a two man lift........at least!


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## markturner

Oh, and the space is limited, as since you were there, I have got myself a Felder CF741S universal machine. But I had a bit of a reorganisation in the workshop and have made enough room for the new arrival. However, I will struggle to fit anything else in though....perhaps a good thing ! I can see this becoming a bit of a slippery slope like collecting old planes......which I now have over 50 of.......!


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## condeesteso

50 planes Mark? That's collecting.
I may need to invite myself round when the new monster is installed (I'll stay well away til it's firmly in place of course).
Look forward to pics etc anyway, a thing of beauty.


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## Hardwood66

Looking for a pk ATM such nice saws


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