# Charnwood W619 Or Axminster Craft AC216TS Table Saw



## Seb (19 Dec 2018)

Hi everyone

I am looking to upgrade to a cast iron table saw for my home workshop. I've found the above 8" versions by Charnwood & Axminster, and wondered if you had any advice as to which may be the better choice, or possibly any alternative suggestions. Apologies as I am unable to post the links.

I saw both at the North Of England Woodworking show, and was pretty impressed by the Axminster. It was unbelievably quiet. I didn't get as hands on with the Charnwood as it was really busy at their stand. 

The Axminster would probably cost around £100 more with the stand and sliding carriage, and the Charnwood's cutting width capacity is over double!

Is there a brand, and particular saw that i'm missing, that may offer me a far better option?

Thanks in advance for your replies


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## stuartpaul (20 Dec 2018)

Seb,

I have a personal bias towards Axminster because of (generally) reasonable quality (for the price) and very good back up service and away from Charnwood because of poorer quality and even poorer back up. A dished saw table (nearly 2 mm) that was apparently within tolerance! There are also some people with a less than positive view of Axminster so it's not all roses!

You need to have a good play with both because I suspect like many it's not a purchase you can afford to make twice! Think about what you will mainly be doing, will that difference in cutting width really make a difference? Unfortunately it's not until you've lived with something for a while that you can really decide whether it's a good long term purchase or just something you live with because you can't afford to change.

I haven't had a chance to play with the 216 yet as they don't have stock until the new year but the specs look reasonable (it's on my list if I decide to replace my old saw). They are also still selling the 250 which is a bit cheaper.


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## Seb (21 Dec 2018)

Thanks for your reply Stuart

I know what you mean re Axminster's service. They've been spot on with everything I've had so far. 

I'll mainly be making tables in the new year, and so I just worry about the smaller width tables. The Charnwood seems to be a lot of kit for the money.

There really doesn't seem to be many other options under £1,000. iTech machines keep getting a mention lately I've noticed.

What saw do you currently have?


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## Peterm1000 (22 Dec 2018)

I have had 3 Charnwood machines in my time and had to go for spares on each of them. I have never had a problem and spares have always been well priced and quick to arrive - even when I blew up the motor on my previous saw. I have the W650 which I bought second hand without the sliding table (for £150 - nice!). I added the whole sliding table setup including brackets for another £150 and Charnwood sent it all to me within 24 hours. That was an upgrade on the W616 which itself was just fine - if hard to get the table flat.

What I like about Charnwood is that they have a more limited range than Axminster but that range doesn't chop and change all the time. The machines are a bit agricultural but they work very well. I am delighted with the W650 and suspect you would be with the W619 too.


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## Ttrees (22 Dec 2018)

Plenty of options for under a grand....
If you could mention why you are specifically looking at either of the two saws, it would make it easier to give you some other options,
Like.... 
Is space a premium in the workshop?
Do you only have 13a sockets to power the saw?
Is it only you working in the workshop?
Would you be willing/ have the time to make or fix anything like a riving knife etc?

Maybe, you want to be able to put it in a van or something often?

Tom


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## Seb (22 Dec 2018)

Peter - Thanks for your reply. Your experience with Charnwood sounds promising. What exactly do you mean by their machines being a bit agricultural?

Tom - Cheers. My initial spec was simply a solid cast iron table, solid fence, and under £700 ish ideally. I can't seem to find much without going up into the £1000 range. My workshop is 150sq, but I use the space well. Standard sockets. Just me on my own running the business. Always willing to make time to put things right, but ideally want to buy new on this occasion and have it almost perfect out of the box. My Kity planer thicknesser was an eBay buy and has been great, but not without it's issues, costing me a few days of down time throughout the year (appreciate this is the nature of such machinery).

Thanks again


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## Ttrees (23 Dec 2018)

Hello again 
Since you have only 13a sockets, work by yourself and want a sturdy machine you sound like you might make use of VFD's...
as the most powerful single phase machine you will be able to run off a 13a plug will be 2HP max.
I suggest you have a look at some three phase saws on eBay 
I seen a Startrite 275 for 400 quid and delivery available for instance.
Ideally you might want the DS275 as it has the sliding table.
I have one of these three phase saws, it has a 3hp motor and I run it from a 13a plug, and I have quite a weak supply in the shed...


There are a few more machines listed buy it now, like some Wadkins and Multico's
I don't think the Multico's have a tilting arbor though, so that's not my cup of tea...
Some Wadkins may take a wee bit more effort to hook up, compared to the Startrite with its dual voltage motor 

You can run these 3 phase saws needing no electrical experience, using a sub 100 quid inverter on a 13a plug 
Easy to hook up to a VFD/inverter, as it has only 4 wires from motor to VFD/inverter (3 hots and an earth)
and your 3 wires from the supply (live, neutral and earth)
Both earths go together into earth terminal, and the rest of the input and output wires goes into the other input and output terminals
It does not matter what orientation these go into, it won't explode or anything.

The important rules with VFD's are...
1 Have no plug that can be disconnected between motor and VFD.

2 Make sure you have entered the correct parameters (values) for your motor like RPM, because these VFD's can run a motor at eight times the speed of what is normal. 

3 Make sure to wait for the device to power down before going at the main terminals ...
these drives have large capacitors which can hold quite a charge for some time.

Plenty of Startrites running off VFD's here, with plenty of threads on the subject.
If you find a good three phase machine locally, look for 240v on the motor nameplate or a triangle symbol (low voltage Delta configuration)
That means it can be easily hooked up to a VFD and can run off domestic socket.
Can give you loads of links if you are interested
Good Luck 
Tom


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## Peterm1000 (24 Dec 2018)

Seb":ozqiwczv said:


> Peter - Thanks for your reply. Your experience with Charnwood sounds promising. What exactly do you mean by their machines being a bit agricultural?



By agricultural I just mean some of the metal work is a bit unfinished in places - lots of folded steel (heavyweight though), slightly rough corners and held together with bolts and nuts where others use captive fittings. Things like the handles aren't the greatest quality. Maybe they aren't the prettiest machines but I like the fact that if a bit falls off, you can use a standard bolt to refit it and don't need some non-standard part for £20. It was really interesting buying the sliding table for the W650 as it's clearly identical to the one Axminster use. When you look at the Charnwood / Warco / Axminster sites it's clear that a lot of the manufacturers are manufacturing basically the same machine and the only difference is the paintwork and a few minor details.

Charnwood and Warco both seem to be able to supply basically the same as Axminster but better specced and for 20% less.


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## Seb (24 Dec 2018)

Peterm1000":8rkvqzn1 said:


> Seb":8rkvqzn1 said:
> 
> 
> > Peter - Thanks for your reply. Your experience with Charnwood sounds promising. What exactly do you mean by their machines being a bit agricultural?
> ...



Thanks Peter. That makes sense. I don't mind a little rough finishing here and there if the machine does it's job.

Like you say, the spec and price of the Charnwood stuff compared to the equivalent Axminster is quite a big difference. It's definitely one I'm going to seriously think about over the next week or so. I've had a couple of separate conversations in the last few days, and the idea of a plunge saw has been thrown into the mix. I'd never entertained them before but given the relatively low cost for the top of the range models, and that it would be extremely useful for ripping my hardwoods down, I'm seriously thinking about it. Part of me wonders if I'd regret not just going all out on the table saw a month into initially having the plunge though...


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## stuartpaul (25 Dec 2018)

Seb,

You can end up with analysis paralysis if you're not careful! I sold my table saw pending a downsize a few months ago and since then trying to decide if I can manage without one (I have a bandsaw and a tracksaw) but there are still times I find myself wanting to do a quick zap on a tablesaw to help 'regularise' dimensions of particular items.

I need to see a decent demonstration of an MFT to see if that might fit the bill.

You're right and there isn't much between many of the various saws and it comes down to personal taste and feelings. Because I live so close to Axminster I do end up being pulled that way although Yandles are as close but their customer service is in a much lower league (IMHO of course!). I still can't bring myself to buy Charnwood again!

Merry Christmas

Stuart


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## Peterm1000 (25 Dec 2018)

Axminster has a whole range of stores and sell a vast range. They don't compare with Charnwood or Warco who are much smaller outfits and I'm not sure it's fair to compare. They compete in the same way that an independent garage does with a main dealer. Warco and Charnwood are a bit rougher around the edges customer service-wise, but personally I quite like dealing with normal human beings that have not been told to behave a certain way. If you are at the cheaper end of the market, then I have the sense on a non-core Axminster machine it just goes in the skip when it breaks out of warranty. Charnwood hold a surprisingly large range of parts. That said, if Axminster were just around the corner I am sure I would go there.


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## Seb (5 Jan 2019)

stuartpaul":3qzgghsw said:


> Seb,
> 
> You can end up with analysis paralysis if you're not careful! I sold my table saw pending a downsize a few months ago and since then trying to decide if I can manage without one (I have a bandsaw and a tracksaw) but there are still times I find myself wanting to do a quick zap on a tablesaw to help 'regularise' dimensions of particular items.
> 
> ...



Sorry for the late reply Stuart. I've had a busy one over the Christmas period. I hope you had a good one. I'm still here a couple of weeks later undecided. Presumably the analysis paralysis has already taken hold!  

I took a trip to Axminster to see if they had the new craft machine in, but unfortunately it had not arrived yet. The manager said he will let me know once it's in, but I was a little disappointing at the lack of any knowledge about the new Craft stuff. I asked if the existing hobby range accessories will be straight fits on the new Craft range, as I was trying to get at the fact that I was essentially matching them up with the Charnwood. They had no idea, and a call to head office didn't help either. He pointed to the current 200 and 250 saws, and said look and feel should be very similar bar some improvements. That worried me, as the moment I raised and lowered the blade on both machines, the riving knife became unaligned in any position other than at full depth of cut.

The table with the base and sliding carriage will set me back £720, without the extension table. For a 216mm saw, that's getting up there in price, and would make me think of looking at spending that bit more to get the next step up.

I'm therefore more confused now than ever, as I have discovered a potential issue with the Charnwood too despite the cost being really good. I'll detail that in my reply to Peter below, as I can't see that multi quoting is an option on the forum...


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## Seb (5 Jan 2019)

Peterm1000":12pof5sf said:


> Axminster has a whole range of stores and sell a vast range. They don't compare with Charnwood or Warco who are much smaller outfits and I'm not sure it's fair to compare. They compete in the same way that an independent garage does with a main dealer. Warco and Charnwood are a bit rougher around the edges customer service-wise, but personally I quite like dealing with normal human beings that have not been told to behave a certain way. If you are at the cheaper end of the market, then I have the sense on a non-core Axminster machine it just goes in the skip when it breaks out of warranty. Charnwood hold a surprisingly large range of parts. That said, if Axminster were just around the corner I am sure I would go there.



You're right Peter. Very different approach from each company.

I'm still undecided as mentioned in my reply to Stuart above. I noticed the following comment on a review on the Screwfix website regarding the Scheppach TS82, that looks to be the exact same machine as the Charnwood W619:-

_"All works fine and dandy.
BUT ! the saw blade is 200mm X 2.8 kerf and the riving knife is 2.3mm.
Screwfix do not sell 200mm blades, companies who do, do not sell 2.8mm kerf only 2.4mm or a few do 2.6mm.
So basically you can not buy saw blades for this machine it is all odd sizes.
If you buy a 2.4mm kerf blade you will have to remove the riving knife because the timber will hit against the riving knife.
So your options are to remove the riving knife and risk kick back and lose dust extraction from the top of the riving knife. Or grind down the fitted riving knife to less than 2.3mm or make a new riving knife out of 2mm steel.
I've contacted Scheppach and they never reply!
It's a dodo of a saw bench because of the above.... "_

I also saw a similar comment made on a different site with regards to 200mm blades, and I really want this to be a machine I can consistently put the best blades in. This has me a little worried, but I'm not sure if unnecessarily, and I'm possibly missing something. I'd have thought this would be cropping up more as an issue across the forums, unless people are removing the riving knife, grinding it down, or 200mm blades aren't actually that hard to find that fit W619 (maybe I need to look harder).


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## Seb (5 Jan 2019)

Ttrees":3n3mk68t said:


> Hello again
> Since you have only 13a sockets, work by yourself and want a sturdy machine you sound like you might make use of VFD's...
> as the most powerful single phase machine you will be able to run off a 13a plug will be 2HP max.
> I suggest you have a look at some three phase saws on eBay
> ...



Thanks a lot for the advice Tom.

I'm not really looking to get a three phase at this point I'm afraid. I appreciate the value for money with some of the kit I could pick up on eBay, but I've got to be extremely careful with my setup at home. I'm sure if done right they are great, but I've already been struggling to establish a home Insurer who will be happy covering the property with me doing woodwork from home! I couldn't even get tools cover because my garage has an up and over door...apparently it's a security issue :?


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## Bodgers (5 Jan 2019)

Seb":365p6ee4 said:


> I asked if the existing hobby range accessories will be straight fits on the new Craft range, as I was trying to get at the fact that I was essentially matching them up with the Charnwood. They had no idea, and a call to head office didn't help either. He pointed to the current 200 and 250 saws, and said look and feel should be very similar bar some improvements. That worried me, as the moment I raised and lowered the blade on both machines, the riving knife became unaligned in any position other than at full depth of cut.



The new Axy Craft saw is a new ground up design, it is different from the old Kity clone design of the old TS200 and Charnwood machines. The slots on the table are now a standard width (like they should have been to begin with), the blade and motor is now mounted like a 'proper' table saw so the tilt doesn't affect the distance from the blade to the top, making zero clearance inserts easier to make. Fence also is improved. 

Not sure what you mean by 'accessories' but I wouldn't expect for say the table extension or fences to be compatible with the old Hobby design. 

I don't think going for the Charwood stuff is going to give you a better design in terms of quality, especially when you compare prices. At the sub £600 level Axy are fairly hard to beat on these saws.


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## Seb (6 Jan 2019)

Bodgers":2rvlinkb said:


> Seb":2rvlinkb said:
> 
> 
> > I asked if the existing hobby range accessories will be straight fits on the new Craft range, as I was trying to get at the fact that I was essentially matching them up with the Charnwood. They had no idea, and a call to head office didn't help either. He pointed to the current 200 and 250 saws, and said look and feel should be very similar bar some improvements. That worried me, as the moment I raised and lowered the blade on both machines, the riving knife became unaligned in any position other than at full depth of cut.
> ...



Thanks for the reply Bodgers! 

Sorry, I should have been clearer, by accessories I was referring to adding on the sliding carriage, full base and extension table. I noticed that there was no reference to an extension for the saw on the site. When I queried it, the manager said it did seem odd but couldn't get an answer from head office. They weren't sure either, so I queried whether it's maybe because the hobby machines use a lot of the same parts and it will transfer over. 

I appreciate the build of these machines does seem pretty good, it certainly did at the Harrogate show. The issue is the fact you've literally got to add everything, mitre fence, carriage, base, extension (If available), and that will take the price up to £800, which seems expensive for a 216mm saw. £600 gets you everything with the charnwood, but the issues I've raised above concerns me.


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## Bodgers (6 Jan 2019)

Seb":1dmymzqe said:


> Bodgers":1dmymzqe said:
> 
> 
> > Seb":1dmymzqe said:
> ...


£600 for everything on the Charnwood, but comparing apples to apples you have to compare the TS200mk2 which is still for sale (for now). If you stick the slider and the extension on that, you are up to around £500 and the Axy has a better fence, not the screw clamp one like the Charnwood.

The new Craft saw has quite an improved slider that is a step up over the old one, so they are wanting to get the money out of that. 

Without a serious amout of modification I don't think the TS200 slider would work with the new Craft saw.

If you are wanting to keep the budget down, I would either buy the basic Craft saw without a stand and slider (the slider is pretty limited on these small machines anyway - it isn't as if you are going to be able to cut full sheets of plywood with it). Make your own mobile base - it will be better than the pressed steel static one.

Either that or buy the Draper clone which is even cheaper.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## Seb (6 Jan 2019)

Hi Bodgers 

Is the Draper a clone of the TS200? 

Charnwood upgraded the fence this year, as people were complaining about the old one. Good point re fair comparison being the w619 and the ts200. 

The quality of the ts200 and ts250 seemed nice in store until I adjusted the blade etc and it all just seemed a bit flimsy and out of alignment. I've seen a few people mention this with regards to the riving knife. 

As it stands, I'm tempted to take a punt on the new Ax with the sliding carriage (I'd have to fork out £30 for basic mitre fence anyway so makes sense to spend additional and get that in place of it), then the full base at £100 that has the cupboard. I'd then just sit it on a platform and castors.

I'm still not sure of when it comes out as the delays seem to be ongoing.


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## woodbloke66 (6 Jan 2019)

I had a Charnwood W619 and within two months the saw blade bearings had packed up; I would avoid anything Charnwood like the plague - Rob


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## lurker (6 Jan 2019)

woodbloke66":3px2kfh9 said:


> I had a Charnwood W619 and within two months the saw blade bearings had packed up; I would avoid anything Charnwood like the plague - Rob



I bought a bench grinder from Axminster and it was dangerously faulty out of box, so your experiences (like mine ) are neither here nor there.

What matters is what happens afterwards. So did Charnwood reimbuse you without quibble?

I bought a ex demo table saw from Charnwood and it developed a weird electrical fault that no one could have predicted (I know my electro mechanics) and they could not have been more helpful. The saw has since been fine for 4 years, even though I thrash it.


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## stuartpaul (6 Jan 2019)

Seb":o9ylia3k said:


> Hi Bodgers
> 
> Is the Draper a clone of the TS200?
> 
> ...


Seb,
Have you thought about just the basic saw and making your own sled? I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment. 
Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.
I’m still waiting for information on the new range and getting a little frustrated at the lack of information from axminster despite several nags.


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## Seb (6 Jan 2019)

stuartpaul":2h9f0py4 said:


> Seb":2h9f0py4 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Bodgers
> ...



A sled is definitely an option. That's what I have been doing up until now with my basic Scheppach saw. It's definitely frustrating as you say. I've down the 2 hour round trip twice now. The first time I was told the end of December but regardless I could pre-order online (not true), and the second time I was told the first week of the new year (the store just had all the old hobby stuff reduced a little). The manager gave me his card and said to ring/email this week. I intend to do that tomorrow. They don't respond to messages on Instagram and FB in my experience (messaged them once mid December re the state of one of their block planes I had delivered - it's going to need a lot of work to get it right, and the second time to ask for an update re the craft range).

To be fair to Axminster, the store manager did seem really frustrated by the whole situation, and made a number of calls whilst I was in store to try and get some updates. Should the range be as good as it appears to be, I'll likely go for one of their Craft bandsaws too instead of the Record Power 250 I've seen on offer.


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## Gregers (6 Jan 2019)

I believe Axminster have indicated that their new Craft saws will be available early February. They might well be - but they've already missed a few projected dates for delivery.


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## Bodgers (6 Jan 2019)

Seb":2gcfff19 said:


> Hi Bodgers
> 
> Is the Draper a clone of the TS200?
> 
> ...


I think they have always said January. I asked them a few weeks back and they said it is likely to be late January.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## woodbloke66 (6 Jan 2019)

stuartpaul":2x35rwob said:


> I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
> Think carefully about what you want the saw to do and consider how you can achieve that with either the charnwood or the ax.


The first table saw I had was the K419 and as you rightly say, a nice little saw but the slider wasn't a lot of use; difficult to set up and not especially accurate. The Charnwood saws use the same type of arrangement with exactly the same issues. In the end I got fairly disenchanted with table saws and decided to go down the bandsaw route instead which suits the way I work; it's not for everybody but I prefer it as the bs has a much tidier 'footprint' in a smaller workshop which leaves room for a big router table (much more useful)
When I first started to buy machinery, I thought that a table saw was a 'must have' bit of kit, but once I thought about my own way of working I very soon realised that for me, it was the least important machine in the 'shop, so yep, it's really about what you want the saw to do and ultimately...do you actually need one? - Rob


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## Seb (6 Jan 2019)

woodbloke66":1mytpybd said:


> stuartpaul":1mytpybd said:
> 
> 
> > I used to have a Kity 419 which was a very good basic saw (similar to the 250) but the sliding table wasn’t a massive amount of use and was easy to knock out of adjustment.
> ...



Hi Rob

Thanks for the advice. 

I've had this exact thought on a few occasions over the last couple of months. I've managed the last year without using the table saw, other than for ripping some Oak sleepers for a 4 metre wide TV unit/fish tank stand I made back in the Summer. The thing is, I think this is only because I've been finding ways around it rather than not needing one. I think the quality of my work will go up once I have one. I contemplated spending similar money on the best bandsaw I could get, and going the cheaper route on the table saw for ripping and crosscutting work (I make a lot of table tops using large hardwood slabs), but I've started leaning the other way in recent weeks, as hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 band saw, e.g. shaping legs for my tables, and resawing wood when I make smaller items (I also make tealight holders, chopping blocks, and sometimes lamps when people want to order them as gifts for Birthdays and Christmas etc).

By the way, I clicked the link in your signature to look at some of your pieces. Incredible work sir!


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## woodbloke66 (7 Jan 2019)

Seb":2w3mqmth said:


> Hi Rob
> 
> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> ...



Seb, if that thought had crossed your mind, then you're thinking along the same lines as me. If I were doing table tops in hardwood, I would rough cut to size with a hand held circular saw ('Skill saw') and then use the p/t to bring the component parts to size. Fwiw, when I was working in the trade some years ago, this is exactly how we used to cut up huge planks of Euro Oak that were simply too big to get onto a saw bench...stick some battens under the planks on the floor, mark out roughly with thick pencil lines (or a string line) and start sawing.
If you make up a little jig you can cross cut very accurately with a Skill saw (that's my article btw, not Laura's and I haven't had an op :lol: :lol: ) and for really accurate work, *nothing* beats a shooting board on the bench top.
If you were to buy a £300 table saw you might well be disappointed with what it will actually do for you...I know I was. On the other hand, a £300 bs ought not to disappoint, the only down side is that you need to keep a goodly stock of blades in the 'shop.
Thanks also for looking at the projects done recently; *all* of them were made without using a table saw. One of the great things with a bs is that you can produce your own thick veneers and many of the projects were constructed in this way - Rob


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## Seb (7 Jan 2019)

woodbloke66":1pzidu0s said:


> Seb":1pzidu0s said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Rob
> ...



Hi Rob

I've actually just corrected my previous post, as I meant to put "hopefully I could achieve what I want on a £300 *Band Saw*"...so I agree with your comments re the band saw. You certainly get a lot of machine for your money when looking at them. 

I actually work exactly the way you mention when cutting stock to rough dimensions! The simple repeatability I guess is something I am looking for in the table saw, for cutting smaller components. Thank you for the link to the jig build, that's great. I may have wondered about your 'change' without the forewarning haha!

The joint work in those projects on your page are brilliant. I'd love to incorporate them more into my table builds, but I think I need to up my practice on hand cut joints in between orders (I have a full time job, have my woodworking business part time, and a 1 year old baby, so it's been a tough first year in business  )


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## Ttrees (7 Jan 2019)

You will struggle to find a bandsaw for your use at that price Seb.
Especially if you have a tablesaw allready, you will want a machine that you will find usable for ripping large stock.
That's a 20" bandsaw your talking about.
I advice you if you haven't used a small bandsaw before, to test a friends one to see what you think before spending your
hard earned.

At this money for your circumstances, Its three phase machines what suits IMO
I don't think any insurer could have an issue with a VFD, operating a tablesaw is the dangerous part, 
and not which type of induction motor it has.
Everyone agrees on the proper way to install these, there is no differing opinions.
It is easy and straight forward to do well.
Just saying

Sorry if I seem to be badgering ya
Good luck
Tom


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## Seb (7 Jan 2019)

Ttrees":2qsy35c6 said:


> You will struggle to find a bandsaw for your use at that price Seb.
> Especially if you have a tablesaw allready, you will want a machine that you will find usable for ripping large stock.
> That's a 20" bandsaw your talking about.
> I advice you if you haven't used a small bandsaw before, to test a friends one to see what you think before spending your
> ...



Hi Tom

It's home insurance that will cover a woodworker working from home that's the issue full stop so far for me. It's almost as if the only data they have is that we all just leave oily rags in a pile of sawdust along with leaving all the machinery running whilst we pop out to the shop. Hence the reason I simply have products and PL at the moment, and need to look at switching my home insurance come renewal. 

Re a bandsaw, going forward the stock I'd be running through I'd expect to be 80mm at the most, so I'd have thought the maximum cut of 135mm ish on most £300 machines would do for now. 

I've managed to make units 3 times the size and thickness I'm planning to going forward with just my cheap Scheppach Table Saw, and circular, along with my Kity single phase PT, so I really don't see the necessity for going big and industrial with my upgrades. Also, I have to consider space (single car garage is my workshop), although I do use the space extremely well.


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## Seb (27 Jan 2019)

A quick update guys.

The new Axminster Craft saw is due in tomorrow according to the Warrington store. It will not come with the option of the extension table.

I have decided because of this, that my current budget of £600 would be better spent on a bigger bandsaw. Therefore I am looking at the Axminster Craft AC2606B version. This is also due in next week. The smaller versions are getting really good reviews.


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## Bodgers (31 Jan 2019)

Seb":1294mama said:


> A quick update guys.
> 
> The new Axminster Craft saw is due in tomorrow according to the Warrington store. It will not come with the option of the extension table.
> 
> I have decided because of this, that my current budget of £600 would be better spent on a bigger bandsaw. Therefore I am looking at the Axminster Craft AC2606B version. This is also due in next week. The smaller versions are getting really good reviews.


Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...


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## Nick Laguna UK (31 Jan 2019)

Bodgers":vt2e0ykb said:


> Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...



This can be the reality of correctly sourcing newly designed machines though - I am in the same position where anticipated deadlines suddenly change due to unforeseen design/tooling or just production issues that sometimes seem trivial but still need to be done - they can then suddenly postpone things by months.

I'm at least 6 months behind where I thought I would be by now & that's with top notch factories and a big USA brand working on it too - these things happen.

Always a tricky one to actually say when new products are available when you are planning a long way ahead - only real guarantee is when they actually land in UK - and even a forecast landing date can be knocked to six when the boat decides to suddenly dock elsewhere first.

Fun and games - but I'm sure every supplier is as frustrated as the customer when things are delayed.

Cheers,
Nick


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## Seb (31 Jan 2019)

Bodgers - Axminster advised me 22nd Feb for the saw and two larger bandsaws. The smaller two are already in stock. 

Nick - I agree. Frustrating, but there are so many factors that could cause those delays. I'm going to trust my gut on this, and hang fire for them as I'm just not overly impressed by anything on the market in a similar price range.


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## M_Chavez (12 Feb 2019)

Hi All,

Funnily enough, I have recently decided that it's about time I got myself a mini table saw. Was looking at Byrnes (too small) and Inca (too expensive) and, just by accident found this new Axi saw. I hope we will become good friends and she'll keep company for my Axi bandsaw (who's getting a bit lonely, surrounded by Warco stuff). Was looking at charnwood too, but she's bigger and I'm not too concerned about the size (the axi is a size or two bigger than I'd normally need)
Space and noise are an issue, so I need to buy/build a portable base for it. What would be your advice for maximum noise reduction? Axi steel stand, Axi legs or shop-made plywood box on a 2x4 frame on 4 castors?

Also, would you recommend any essential tools/jigs for a table saw (never owned one). Main intended is use is lutherie, so cutting/rebating wee stuff, squaring off small/medium sized neck blanks, perhaps jointing soundboards (if it is even possible to get an ultra-accurate joint on a ts?). Accuracy is paramount (and I hope that Axi will be accurate enough).

Thanks!


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## woodbloke66 (12 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":1vaxmj6m said:


> Accuracy is paramount (and I hope that Axi will be accurate enough).
> 
> Thanks!


It probably won't and neither will any other (IMO) small hobbyist table saw. If you want accuracy, you need to spend *lots *of money, Felder style - Rob


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## stuartpaul (12 Feb 2019)

Nick Laguna UK":2nkxicof said:


> Bodgers":2nkxicof said:
> 
> 
> > Site is now stating late February. I wouldn't hold your breath. They are now on the third date/time period for this...
> ...


Don't disagree Nick but then they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?

I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.


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## transatlantic (12 Feb 2019)

stuartpaul":193ks302 said:


> Don't disagree Nick but then they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?
> 
> I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.



They seem to be doing the same with the AC250PT ?


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## woodbloke66 (12 Feb 2019)

stuartpaul":1cugd7ls said:


> ... they shouldn't have launched it until they had some to sell surely?
> 
> I think Axminster badly dropped the ball on this one.


Nope, it's a marketing trick; this sort of thing is happens all the time; done so the product, whatever it may be, isn't launched 'cold' without prior knowledge. I expect other companies do this sort of thing as well - Rob


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## transatlantic (12 Feb 2019)

I'd be super curious to know how many they're getting in. 

I'll be one of the ones waiting for the reviews to come in and then find that they're out of stock. :roll:


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## Nick Laguna UK (12 Feb 2019)

woodbloke66":3dvtzy0y said:


> Nope, it's a marketing trick; this sort of thing is happens all the time; done so the product, whatever it may be, isn't launched 'cold' without prior knowledge. I expect other companies do this sort of thing as well - Rob



Not all companies do it as a 'marketing trick' so far in advance Rob - Personally I'm waiting for factory confirmation dates before putting anything official about new products on our website.

I don't know their exact circumstances, but I agree with the general consensus that it only causes more frustration when you publicise something that isn't available with no confirmed due date.

Cheers,
Nick


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## Nick Laguna UK (12 Feb 2019)

transatlantic":3h5enu0v said:


> I'd be super curious to know how many they're getting in



Ha, When it's in - go to their website and put 500 in your basket - then when you go to check out it will tell you how many are on back order - bingo - you will know how approximately many have been ordered 

Top tip from a competitor who monitors other competitors stock 8)


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## transatlantic (12 Feb 2019)

Nick Laguna UK":1gofdf52 said:


> transatlantic":1gofdf52 said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be super curious to know how many they're getting in
> ...


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## M_Chavez (12 Feb 2019)

Well, ordered around midnight, got told it was shipped this morning.
Waiting lists? What waiting lists? 8) 
Unfortunately, I expected to have 3 weeks to clear out some space in the workshop and sort out the base!

I would be grateful for any thoughts about steel base vs legs vs homemade cabinet in terms of noise reduction - all mobile on 4 castors. The floor is wooden, so steel cabinet + saw weight might be a wee bit too heavy for it...

Thanks!

PS if it's not accurate enough, it will be sent back/sold, but surely Axi stuff should have a level table and be able to hold the blade square to it? Fence can always be upgraded...


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## woodbloke66 (12 Feb 2019)

Nick Laguna UK":gpm1zf0w said:


> woodbloke66":gpm1zf0w said:
> 
> 
> > Nope, it's a marketing trick; this sort of thing is happens all the time; done so the product, whatever it may be, isn't launched 'cold' without prior knowledge. I expect other companies do this sort of thing as well - Rob
> ...


I'd have to agree Nick that it is something they're prone to do which may be quite frustrating for potential customers waiting for a bit of kit - Rob


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## Bodgers (13 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":poznm2jt said:


> Well, ordered around midnight, got told it was shipped this morning.
> Waiting lists? What waiting lists? 8)
> Unfortunately, I expected to have 3 weeks to clear out some space in the workshop and sort out the base!
> 
> ...


Let us in know how you get on with it, maybe some pictures?

It will help the rest of us decide if the first batch is worth giving a miss


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## transatlantic (13 Feb 2019)

transatlantic":3k3vn1u3 said:


> Nick Laguna UK":3k3vn1u3 said:
> 
> 
> > transatlantic":3k3vn1u3 said:
> ...



Well - they have at least 1000


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## Sleepy (13 Feb 2019)

If you check your basket you'll see around 980 (977 when I checked) need to be back ordered. So I guess that means they've got around 20 left.


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## M_Chavez (13 Feb 2019)

Well, the beastie has arrived, but it will be the weekend before I make any cuts. Only had time to unbox it tonight.

As I've said, I've never had a proper table saw, so hard to assess it.

The saw itself comes across as reasonably well made (although see my note on the table below). Solid cast iron table, accurately machined slots, very fine finish on the table surface (saw body panels could have been a bit more refined, but I didn't buy the saw to look at it). Easy, smooth blade height and tilt adjustment. Stripped of all trimmings, just a few kg heavier than a comfortable one-man lift.

The extension tables, despite being well made, make the whole set-up look and feel cheap. My understanding is that the saw is intended to have the extensions on as a default set-up and I really don't see much point in it - if you want a saw with bigger tables and footprint, buy a bigger saw...

The fence is solid and very well-made, but the fence track length assumes that you have the extension tables attached. I'll need to find a sacrificial track to cut it to the main table's width. 
Also, the blade is positioned well to the right, so if you are planning to rip boards wider than a couple inches, you'd either have to move the fence to the left of the blade, or attach the extension. Again, I feel that the saw is not designed for use with only the main table.

Blade/arbour runout at full height is 0.2mm. Not sure how bad that is compared to other saws.

The saw is almost silent when idling. Very quiet motor and just a slight whistle coming from the blade. My bandsaw and pillar drill are louder.

Now the table... The table is dished quite baldy - perhaps 1mm across and 1.5-2mm along the table. Most of the dishing is just on the perimeter of the table, with the central 60% being reasonably flat. I am not sure how this will affect the accuracy of the cuts for small parts, especially if using sleds, but the lack of a level surface is very disappointing. I'm undecided whether to send it back (the whole saw? just the table?) or whether such dishing will be present on any cheapo saw and I'll be just wasting my time. I think the accuracy will be sufficient for my purposes, but remember, I was only looking for a mini saw for cutting small parts.

Overall, the saw does not quite meet the quality of my 20 year old Axi bandsaw (14" Delta clone). Had the table been dead flat, I'd be very satisfied though.


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## M_Chavez (13 Feb 2019)

Correction: The runout at the base of the blade (i.e. blade extended and measured as close to arbour as the table allows) is about 0.08mm. This translates into 0.2mm at the tip of the blade. Not sure if that's arbour or the blade itself.

The table insert sits about 1mm below the table surface and is not very refined - I guess I'll be making my own inserts.


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":nncdrisu said:


> Well, the beastie has arrived, but it will be the weekend before I make any cuts. Only had time to unbox it tonight.
> 
> As I've said, I've never had a proper table saw, so hard to assess it.
> 
> ...


Send it back. It is not acceptable for the main table to be dished like that.

I have just ordered mine and I will be doing the same if mine is like that.

They need to know about it rather than customers just accepting stuff like that.

The extension tables are a different matter - I knew from the start they would be bad as they look the same as the old TS200 extension. I expect to remake them on mine.



Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## transatlantic (14 Feb 2019)

Interesting feedback. It's not at all acceptable for the cast iron top to be dished, I would certainly send it back. Hopefully they'll do a simple swap on delivery?

I am surprised to hear you would be using it without the extensions. Looks far too small to do anything with in my opinion, unless all you're doing is thin rips.


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## woodbloke66 (14 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":1orurp1j said:


> Now the table... The table is dished quite baldy - perhaps 1mm across and 1.5-2mm along the table. Most of the dishing is just on the perimeter of the table, with the central 60% being reasonably flat. I am not sure how this will affect the accuracy of the cuts for small parts, especially if using sleds, but the lack of a level surface is very disappointing. I'm undecided whether to send it back (the whole saw? just the table?) or whether such dishing will be present on any cheapo saw and I'll be just wasting my time. I think the accuracy will be sufficient for my purposes, but remember, I was only looking for a mini saw for cutting small parts.


That is dreadful on such a small surface area. Pick up the 'fone, complain bitterly, send it back and get a complete replacement saw or your money back as it's not fit for purpose. A warped table like that will almost certainly affect the accuracy of any cuts you're liable to make. I'd also put a negative review on the website; Ax will publish it - Rob


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

woodbloke66":3vjb427r said:


> M_Chavez":3vjb427r said:
> 
> 
> > Now the table... The table is dished quite baldy - perhaps 1mm across and 1.5-2mm along the table. Most of the dishing is just on the perimeter of the table, with the central 60% being reasonably flat. I am not sure how this will affect the accuracy of the cuts for small parts, especially if using sleds, but the lack of a level surface is very disappointing. I'm undecided whether to send it back (the whole saw? just the table?) or whether such dishing will be present on any cheapo saw and I'll be just wasting my time. I think the accuracy will be sufficient for my purposes, but remember, I was only looking for a mini saw for cutting small parts.
> ...


I'd maybe not quite be so rapid fire with the review. Give them the chance to replace it first


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

transatlantic":1phr23of said:


> Interesting feedback. It's not at all acceptable for the cast iron top to be dished, I would certainly send it back. Hopefully they'll do a simple swap on delivery?
> 
> I am surprised to hear you would be using it without the extensions. Looks far too small to do anything with in my opinion, unless all you're doing is thin rips.


Ripping is the primary use-case of a table saw I'd say. If you have a mitre saw or a sled I find I don't use much of right side capacity.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## transatlantic (14 Feb 2019)

Bodgers":f7xt9ykv said:


> transatlantic":f7xt9ykv said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting feedback. It's not at all acceptable for the cast iron top to be dished, I would certainly send it back. Hopefully they'll do a simple swap on delivery?
> ...



Each to their own I guess. I use mine for all sorts


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## MikeG. (14 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":1mchwbux said:


> ........ the blade is positioned well to the right, so if you are planning to rip boards wider than a couple inches, you'd either have to move the fence to the left of the blade, or attach the extension. .........





Bodgers":1mchwbux said:


> ........Ripping is the primary use-case of a table saw I'd say. If you have a mitre saw or a sled I find I don't use much of right side capacity........



Non table saw owner/ user here, so this question will just display my ignorance. Surely when ripping you would tend to have the waste come off the near side, on the side away from the fence, wouldn't you? Assuming that's right, then ripping boards down will involve the bulk of the board being on the fence side of the blade, and thus you'd need at least 8 or 9 inches of usable table to the far side of the blade, plus the width of the fence......wouldn't you?


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

MikeG.":nol5wxpt said:


> Non table saw owner/ user here, so this question will just display my ignorance. Surely when ripping you would tend to have the waste come off the near side, on the side away from the fence, wouldn't you? Assuming that's right, then ripping boards down will involve the bulk of the board being on the fence side of the blade, and thus you'd need at least 8 or 9 inches of usable table to the far side of the blade, plus the width of the fence......wouldn't you?


Not sure how wide 8-9 inches is, but most of the stuff I ripped on a table saw was never any wider than about 200mm, which is doable without any extension tables on say a TS250 or TS200.
If I'm doing wider stuff, that typically means I'm cutting sheet material, which I'd use the tracksaw with, or a crosscut which I'm hand cutting or rough cutting with a mitre saw. 
As mentioned, everyone has their own way...


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## M_Chavez (14 Feb 2019)

Well, cleaned up the straight edge and the table, checked again - one diagonal is dead flat and one diagonal has a gap the size of a grand canyon. Definitely a badly warped table.
The saw will be going back, but I'd be quite keen to get a replacement, assuming that Axminster can find one with a flat table. 

It would be interesting to hear what others get - perhaps, I got unlucky (serves me right for ordering from the first batch!). 

I'll keep you posted.


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

M_Chavez":tuarm16y said:


> Well, cleaned up the straight edge and the table, checked again - one diagonal is dead flat and one diagonal has a gap the size of a grand canyon. Definitely a badly warped table.
> The saw will be going back, but I'd be quite keen to get a replacement, assuming that Axminster can find one with a flat table.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear what others get - perhaps, I got unlucky (serves me right for ordering from the first batch!).
> ...


Mine arrives tomorrow and I don't have high hopes.

These tops will have been cast from the same batch with the same processes so it is likely they'll all have similar problems.

If the warp is as bad as you say, and there are others come out like it, this is huge QA failure on Axminster's part.

Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk


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## Seb (14 Feb 2019)

I'll need to see more reviews, and also see what Axminster do about the problem saws, but my initial idea of getting the Charnwood isn't looking like such a bad idea now...I really don't know what other options there are in this bracket to be honest. 

I'm glad I went with the decision to order the new Bandsaw. The smaller versions are getting really good reviews so I have high hopes.


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## Bodgers (14 Feb 2019)

I wouldn't put any more faith in Charnwood than Axminster. They are using similar level Chinese based manufacturing outfits for these budget machines.


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## M_Chavez (14 Feb 2019)

Yep.. My thoughts exactly. Even if it arrives level, what are the chances of the tables warping in 6 months' time?

What about Scheppy TS82? Seems to be the same idea as Axi and Charnwood.


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## Bodgers (20 Jun 2020)

Mine arrived - just posted an update on the main thread here:

post1268406.html#p1268406


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