# Microsoft Vista



## RogerS (8 Feb 2007)

Just wondered how many of you are goig to upgrade?

£350 seems a tad expensive to me. Personally I reckon that it won't have the take-up that XP had. Corporates will delay since they won't necessarily want to make the huge investment in new hardware. I can't see many private buyers (apart from a few geeks) shelling out £350 and so that leaves only those who buy a new computer.


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## LyNx (8 Feb 2007)

whats the advantage of vista over Xp pro or Xp64?


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## wizer (8 Feb 2007)

I wont upgrade properly until the 1st or 2nd service pack. It's just too buggy atm. I have it on a test machine and I may put it on my laptop for a bit.

BTW Roger: I work for a very large media company, we have about 6000 users in London alone. We will roll out vista across the board by July.


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## MrJay (8 Feb 2007)

> whats the advantage of vista over Xp pro or Xp64?



[nerd talk]Vista has changed the user model to something more Unixy, the smartest thing they've done in years, though I hear that they've windowsified it and its annoying as hell[/nerd talk] which ought to make Vista much less of a soft target for catching nasty things off the internet. For that reason I'd recommend it to my mum.

Personally though, XP hasn't been so bad on my PC and if I want a proper grown up Unixy operating system I've got Linux. I'm not in a big hurry to buy yet another Microsoft OS.


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## RogerS (8 Feb 2007)

WiZeR":1gea5zfi said:


> I wont upgrade properly until the 1st or 2nd service pack. It's just too buggy atm. I have it on a test machine and I may put it on my laptop for a bit.
> 
> BTW Roger: I work for a very large media company, we have about 6000 users in London alone. We will roll out vista across the board by July.



I can see the logic for doing that if it coincides with any company long-term migration strategy. But...._I wont upgrade properly until the 1st or 2nd service pack. It's just too buggy atm._ and _We will roll out vista across the board by July_ Does not compute Does not compute. Does not compute :lol:


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## Adam (8 Feb 2007)

You don't have an option for E) No thankyou, I'm fine with XP.

Adam


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## wizer (8 Feb 2007)

MrJay":299g3xih said:


> Personally though, XP hasn't been so bad on my PC and if I want a proper grown up Unixy operating system I've got Linux. I'm not in a big hurry to buy yet another Microsoft OS.



Totally agree with that statement. XP is fine.


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## LyNx (8 Feb 2007)

> You don't have an option for E) No thankyou, I'm fine with XP



I second that one. XP64 rocks :lol:


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## woodshavings (8 Feb 2007)

I have upgraded one pc, not used for business and accounting, with Vista. The cost was about £80 (Novatech) for the OEM Home Premium version. 

I like the new interface and the (yet to be proven) improved security but would not pay £300.

I will not be changing the remaining pcs, critical for my business, until I am sure of the stability of Vista but so far, so good. 

John


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## wizer (8 Feb 2007)

another issue with Vista is hardware. My newest, highest spec PC is 'underspecced' for vista.


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## mr (8 Feb 2007)

One option missing from the poll is " no thanks, I run Linux" which is where I fall. Having said that if my clients start using it or take up is large then I will have to install it on a spare machine in the same way that I have XP currently installed for testing etc. I have a feeling the corporates will upgrade sooner rather than later, and I suspect the real geeks won't balk at the price (seeing as they won't be paying) and very possibly have it installed already. 

Cheers Mike


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## Anonymous (8 Feb 2007)

It's a joke and a rip off. I personally have never had any security issues with XP or 2000 for that matter. Viruses? Trojans? never had one. Security is easy with a modicum of common sense. 
And a new interface. Who cares a jot what the OS *looks like * ?????????


I personally won't upgrade (maybe defect though) but work will no doubt upgrade in a year or so

Microsoft needs to release new versions of windows every 3-4 years or they die. 
Unfortunately, we don't need their new versions as Windows - operating systems should support and run other (useful) apps, not take up all your RAM and CPU cycles :roll: 

Bring back DOS 2.0 :lol: :lol: :lol: (and that hair shirt)


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## duncanh (8 Feb 2007)

I found this interesting article benchmarking Vista and XP on Tom's Hardware last night http://tinyurl.com/2dbx86. Basically it says that XP will run your apps faster. 
I didn't want Vista beforehand and after reading this I certainly don't. I'm perfectly happy with XP. 

The problem will be that most PCs bought from now on will have it pre-installed. This was one of the reasons that I just bought a new machine. 

Duncan

(there doesn't appear to be an option for not wanting Vista at all in the poll so I choose nothing)


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## Roger (8 Feb 2007)

Here's your link Duncan (the one you posted doesn't go through):

Vista - XP Benchmark

Vista IMO is just a paint job on the engine. Not a lot of point in spending the money if the latest of everything works just fine and as fast as it can right now.


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## mr (8 Feb 2007)

I think, though I may be wrong not having seen Vista up close as yet, that it's a bit more than just a paintjob. For example the DRM elements would appear to offer content providers a much greater level of control over their content which may or may not be a good thing depending on your point of view. It's not impossible that Msoft will attempt to lock down the (corporate) market meaning that there may eventually be a fork in hardware platforms as hardware becomes specificly linked to the DRM controls meaning that hardware will only work on pc platforms as the DRM elements cannot be released to provide interoperability due to the dangers of reverse engineering. Anyone for a graphics card that will only run in a pc? Hmm didn't think so 

Mike


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## Roger (8 Feb 2007)

> For example the DRM elements would appear to offer content providers a much greater level of control over their content which may or may not be a good thing depending on your point of view. It's not impossible that Msoft will attempt to lock down the (corporate) market meaning that there may eventually be a fork in hardware platforms as hardware becomes specifically linked to the DRM controls



That's one that I definitely think is a minus against Vista. It will be interesting to see what a SP or two relax in view of the fuss it's already causing ....


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## RogerS (8 Feb 2007)

mr":1vhz4wah said:


> as hardware becomes specificly linked to the DRM controls meaning that hardware will only work on pc platforms as the DRM elements cannot be released
> Mike



It's already there at the software level since you can only use Windows Media Player DRM on PCs and no other platform. It is my current pet peeve that media providers such as the BBC/Channel4/Channel5/Lovefilm and many others insist that I have to go and buy a PC if I want to download their stuff.


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## mr (8 Feb 2007)

Steve Jobs is already saying that DRM control should be removed from content. Whether one takes the cynical view that thats a business led statement as I'm sure it is, it would seem to make sense both for users and content providers. On the surface of things it would appear that MSoft is moving in the opposite direction. 

Roger the BBC news content will work on other platforms, I can view it on my linux box - no experience of the others Im afraid. At software level that sort of lockdown doesnt matter too much as there will always be a software option. The problem arises I think when the hardware becomes tied into the system which then means that hardware is manufactured only to work with one system. Obviously thats currently the case with some hardware but if the hardware development tree forks as a result of something like this I don't see that as being particularly useful. 


Mike


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## Sailor (8 Feb 2007)

Evening,
Steve Jobs is only trying to 'pass the buck'; as Norway has said that the iTunes DRM is illegal and must be made operable on other devices.
Jobs is saying 'it's not me it's the big record labels' but the Scandinavians have said that that cuts no ice and are now discussing a time line for either compliance or fines.
Bill Gates has also said that DRM is against the interests of consumers, so maybe there is a slight chink opening up!

ps no chance of 'upgrading', only use Windows on one out of eight computers in the house/workshop.

Colin


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## tigerturnings (8 Feb 2007)

I'm not likely to ever use Vista on any of my PCs. Like mr, I'm running Linux which fills all my needs. I cannot ever imagine paying for software with potentially less functionality than that of my current, free software.

In those rare cases where I have needed Windows, I have the choice of using an ancient NT4 system or booting 2000 on my main workstation, which has proved totally adequate so far.

Cheers

Neil


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## Fecn (8 Feb 2007)

In 2004 they removed WinFS.. 
In 2005 they removed the PowerShell (Monad)
In 2006 they removed SeurID support and some other bits that I didn't care about.

Later in 2006 they started putting out news stories about the amazing new 'Areo soundscape' with it's new age-y sounds and the involvement of Robert Fripp
A few weeks after that, they started telling us how amazing the 54 new high-quality wallpaper included with vista are.

So... when it got released to manufacturing I bought myself a new PC which could be described as erm... 'somewhat overspecified' . Since I bought after Nov 6th I qualified for a free upgrade to Vista, so I gave it a try...

After a couple of days, I realised that although the animations are very slick and pretty, the fact that the animation takes a certain amount of time to happen makes the interface slower.. so I switched to a classic windows2000 style instead - So much for the new features.

The security of the OS is definitely improved a lot from 2K/XP standards - It's pretty much caught up woth OSX-10.3 now - However, for some reason MS felt the need to force me to watch 2 seconds of animations with the screen going grey/black before popping up a password box - I couldnt' work out how to disable that one.

After a few more days, I tried a couple of games out and found problems with a couple more.. so I started booting into XP for a while instead.... and the next time I tried to boot Vista a few weeks later, it was past it's activation date and into the limited functionality mode... so I haven't bothered with it since. 

Even though I'm entitled to a free upgrade to Vista.. I don't think I'll bother... at least until I buy some new gadget that's not supported by XP.


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## RogerS (8 Feb 2007)

Sailor":9p0cc5g9 said:


> Jobs is saying 'it's not me it's the big record labels' but the Scandinavians have said that that cuts no ice and are now discussing a time line for either compliance or fines.


Actually there is an element of truth in what he says. In my correspondence with the various providers, they all say that the choice of DRM is not theirs but the people who provide the programs that they (the providers) then offer for download. Whether or not that is true or just an attempt to cover up their inability to provide a service to a wider audience base is open to debate.


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## Drew (10 Feb 2007)

I won't be buying vista until it stops acting and looking like a fishnet stocking, full of holes surrounded by tenuous linkages. Microsoft are famous for putting out software with glitches, traps and backdoors and then everybody pays the price for upgrading with a spate of new viruses and hacks.
I'll stick to 2000 for a while yet.

Drew


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## Anonymous (11 Feb 2007)

I don't understand a word of this thread!

I've not taken the plunge yet to upgrade from Windows 98 to XP. Am I a dinosaur?

Cheers
Brad


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## Colin C (11 Feb 2007)

I bought my computer with XP and I will not be upgrading plus I would need a new one for it :roll:


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## brianhabby (11 Feb 2007)

Hi all,

If you cast your minds back to when Microsoft released XP, a lot of people found that they had peripherals that would not work because there were no drivers for them, and the peripheral manufacturers where not prepared to write drivers for what they saw as old products that they didn't support any longer. This meant a lot of perfectly servicable devices went in the bin.

Will the same thing happen with Vista? - I suspect so.

Interestingly, our local computer shop are currently advising customers that they can have Vista installed if they want to but they are recommending that they _(the customer)_ waits about six to twelve months before upgrading to see how the land lays

Brad, If it ain't broke, don't fix it

regards

Brian


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## RogerS (11 Feb 2007)

Interesting set of responses. Virtually everyone who's replied is either hanging fire or not upgrading.


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## Gill (11 Feb 2007)

If I could get my peripherals to work with Ubuntu and if I could navigate my computer with an open source program in the same way that Windows Explorer allows, I wouldn't even be operating XP!

I'd probably have to change my ISP, though - AOL and Ubuntu don't seem to like each other much.

Gill


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## mr (11 Feb 2007)

Gill":1jmsafj4 said:


> If I could get my peripherals to work with Ubuntu and if I could navigate my computer with an open source program
> Gill



Dont your peripherals work with Ubuntu? My installation of Ubuntu worked with everything "out of the box". You may not be aware Gill but it's easy to test should you want to, download and burn the Ubuntu distro. Its a live distro meaning it's bootable from cd or installable. So Put the Ubuntu disk in your drive and turn the machine on, the pc wakes up in Ubuntu land without installing anything and allows you to see which bits don't work, if any. If you can't get on with it, throw the cd in the bin and reboot the machine. 
Mike


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## Gill (12 Feb 2007)

Hi Mike

I've got the Ubuntu 'live' CD, but it's like being dropped in a desert without a map. I can't find anything on my computer. With Windows, I know that if I want to, say, start recording a TV programme, I just activate the icon on my desktop and the TV card will start recording. If I want to find videos I've recorded, I use Windows Explorer to navigate to the location where I store my video files.

My computer has two HDDs; with with Ubuntu, I can't even tell which of the two I'm accessing! I'd love to do more with Ubuntu, but it's so daunting for someone who only knows Windows.

Gill


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## Kane (13 Feb 2007)

Too resource hungry 
Too much DRM if the stories are true
Too new (no intention of testing software and paying for the honour!)
Too happy with XP


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## MrJay (13 Feb 2007)




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## aldel (13 Feb 2007)

No!!

Nearly twice the price to run slower than XP.
DRM infested.
I have a not very old scanner and TV card which are not and will not be supported.
I often change parts on my machine since I am a bit of a hardware nerd and Vista will demand reactivation. Change too much and you are stuffed.
I am keen on anti-virus and firewall software. Vista is designed not to be friendly to this software and demands to use its own inferior protection.
A good deal of specialist software will not run on Vista.
Needs high power hardware to run a pretty face to do the same job as a lower spec XP machine.

etc. etc


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## RogerS (13 Feb 2007)

You saw it here first, folks! The non-takeup of Vista....


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## Routermonster (14 Feb 2007)

When I think of all the tools or timber I could buy for £350 (assuming SWMBO would allow it) ... no, I think I'll give Vista a miss. Besides, XP works OK most of the time.

Les


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## innesm (14 Feb 2007)

My Vista upgrade should be arriving in the mail today. 

I'll get me coat...


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## engineer one (14 Feb 2007)

maybe more important is how long msoft will keep supporting xp? :twisted: 

the only way that they are going to get full conversion is to make it more difficult for present users. :roll: 

they already do not support 98 or 2000, so how long before xp goes the same way  

paul :wink:


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## aldel (14 Feb 2007)

Microsoft have published that XP will be fully supported until 2012 with partial support until 2014.

Charging the same price as the USA may help and not 1$ =£1!!


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## innesm (14 Feb 2007)

aldel":19i34hiu said:


> Microsoft have published that XP will be fully supported until 2012 with partial support until 2014.
> 
> Charging the same price as the USA may help and not 1$ =£1!!



Yeah, but who seriously ever actually raises support issues? Supporting XP, for the majority of people, means MS continue to provide security updates and supporting backward compatibility of selected 'new stuff'.


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## engineer one (14 Feb 2007)

i agree about talking to tech, but the updates are occassionally quite valuable, and do we really trust them :? 

paul :wink:


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## Dad (14 Feb 2007)

I wont' bother until such time as I replace my pc & that comes with it already included in the price...


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## innesm (14 Feb 2007)

engineer one":3vexcljs said:


> i agree about talking to tech, but the updates are occassionally quite valuable, and do we really trust them :?



Yes, it's the updates that are important support-wise.
As to whether we trust them... well, NT4 released in the year of our lord 1996 was supported until quite recently.
Anyway, any XP boxes still kicking about post London Olympics should be running in a locked room somewhere with nobody allowed to touch them. 

And another thing, they should switch off analogue telly _now_. :twisted:


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## Alf (14 Feb 2007)

innesm":1om7x9rs said:


> And another thing, they should switch off analogue telly _now_. :twisted:


Speaking from an area where they seem to just have their fingers crossed that turning off the analogue signal will allow the digital one to work, no thanks; not until Life on Mars is finished. :lol: 

Cheers, Alf


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## innesm (14 Feb 2007)

Alf":1qzc4rvr said:


> no thanks; not until Life on Mars is finished. :lol:



Damn, I missed the first episode and the Beeb arent repeating it, AFAICS. Cue bittorrent...


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## Dad (14 Feb 2007)

innesm":22qvp7lb said:


> Alf":22qvp7lb said:
> 
> 
> > no thanks; not until Life on Mars is finished. :lol:
> ...



Well, effectively from now it's being repeated on BBC1 on Tuesday's at 9:00 as episode 2 has already been shown (& seen  ) on BBC4. Sorry, that doesn't help you though. 

My Mrs is intent on only watching each week on BBC1 - until the last episode which she says she won't be able to wait a week for.


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## aldel (14 Feb 2007)

Considering buying Vista?
Maybe a read of this link http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/14/pricey_beta_bugger/

may help your decision.


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## RogerS (14 Feb 2007)

Fabulous review, Aldel. Had me chuckling :lol:


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## mr (14 Feb 2007)

For your reading pleasure

http://badvista.fsf.org/portal_fact...getRssDate&sort_order=reverse&getRssID:list=2

Cheers Mike


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## innesm (14 Feb 2007)

A review from The Register, and a Free Software Foundation Vista attack site.

Kinda like biographies of George Bush written by the Iranian State News Agency, and Kim Jong-Il. 

(which isn't to say GWBush is 100% great, of course. No doubt he has his faults. )


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## mr (14 Feb 2007)

THe link I posted is a collection of links to other articles from a variety of sources (many of them BBC sources) for a more rounded view of various issues. 

Cheers Mike


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## RogerS (2 Mar 2007)

Just read this. Love it!!


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## TonyW (4 Mar 2007)

Had a quick look at the comments on this topic I am an XP user like many here and for now will be staying put until at least Vista service pack 3 is out :lol: . 

I am sorry to say that I am a bit of a computer geek as well as a would be woodworker (should that be wood be woodworker?) and in my business life also deal with networks and IT personnel. Without exception all my business contacts are avoiding Vista for the time being. 

Please do not get the wrong impression I am not anti Microsoft - I think that they are largely responsible for some standardisation in this diverse industry. 
I guess the only way to go other than MS is join the Linux brigade 

Even with its faults and bugs I quite like XP. Having said that if I had purchased anything other than software that needed so many fixes and security (read safety!) fixes, I suspect that I would have been looking for a full refund. 

So as I said earlier I will not be an early adopter of a new system preferring to wait and see how it plays out


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## kafkaian (4 Mar 2007)

Roger Sinden":3dp7rqnu said:


> Just wondered how many of you are goig to upgrade?
> 
> £350 seems a tad expensive to me. Personally I reckon that it won't have the take-up that XP had. Corporates will delay since they won't necessarily want to make the huge investment in new hardware. I can't see many private buyers (apart from a few geeks) shelling out £350 and so that leaves only those who buy a new computer.



Can you add, 

"No thanks I have Linux" or change the MAC option to "...MAC or other OS" please?


I have a server with Debian Linux and connect Ubuntu Linux Desktop to that. Wouldn't entertain Gates's bloated and overpriced OS


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## Shadowfax (4 Mar 2007)

I guess I am being thick here but what do you have to do to vote in a poll?
Cheers.

SF


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## kafkaian (4 Mar 2007)

Shadowfax":3ataauh7 said:


> I guess I am being thick here but what do you have to do to vote in a poll?
> Cheers.
> 
> SF



At the top of this thread, click on your choice and press "submit"


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## DaveL (4 Mar 2007)

If you go to the top of this page you should find a list of the poll options and a vote button, once you have voted this will not be displayed, instead you should see the poll results.


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## Shadowfax (4 Mar 2007)

Thanks guys but there is a distinct lack of a vote button on my screen!

SF


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## Shadowfax (4 Mar 2007)

I think I am going to have to speak to someone in this house. 
I am getting the impression that some bu**er has voted for me!!!
Anyway, Vista will be a long time waiting before it gets in here!
Many thanks.

SF


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## kafkaian (4 Mar 2007)

Shadowfax":2zq7jfvc said:


> I am getting the impression that some bu**er has voted for me!!!


That'll be Bill. His software has so many "security " holes that it's starting to look like he resets your cookies, fills in your forms and takes a note of your key presses :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 


Shadowfax":2zq7jfvc said:


> Anyway, Vista will be a long time waiting before it gets in here!SF


Good man


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## RogerS (26 Mar 2007)

The trials and tribulations of an early adopter can be read here :lol:


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