# Newer stanley chisels



## No skills (18 Dec 2011)

Hello again folks, hope the xmas build up isnt getting everybody down :ho2 

Whilst digging through a tool box I'd not been near for a long time I found a fairly un-molested (straight, mostly rust free!!)set of stanley dynagrip chisels. I think their the first version of the dynagrip's, as its the nearest thing I have to a complete set of chisels I thought I'll tidy them up, sharpen them and stick them in my new tool cabinet * when its done. However I dont seem to have a 50mm chisel, not essential I know but its bugging me now. I've had a mooch round on the internet and found that theres been a couple of handle revisions over the years, I've also noticed that none of the new ones are marked as sheffield steel :?: 

Has anybody had the old and new ones and noticed a difference in the quality of the steel? not saying mine are great but I'd rather not get a new one and have it be complete tat  

Cheers all...

* new year project


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## Mike Wingate (18 Dec 2011)

Forget about creating a set and use what you have. I only have 6 Stanley 5001's anything larger than a 1" out there. My blue 5002 1 1/2" spoils the aesthetics of the tool rack! Not joking. I should have been kept away from catalogues as a child. Dinky military. Camera equipment, tools, Bike parts, bike clothing, clothing. The internet is just one big catalogue and I want it all, as long as it comes in matching sets!


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## No skills (18 Dec 2011)

I try not to be a shopper... lucky enough I cant afford to be one anyway  

Anyhow the handles wont bother me much... possably... I had planned to make some handles in the future (project #2743-b) so that would sort it - just wondering about the bit that counts really. Play doh cutting edges are annoying even for a complete butcher like me


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## Paul Chapman (18 Dec 2011)

Forget about new Stanley chisels - the steel is rubbish. Go for a Narex, they are really good and reasonably priced http://www.classichandtools.com/acatalo ... isels.html

Cheers :ho2 

Paul


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## Jacob (18 Dec 2011)

Paul Chapman":hndwllln said:


> Forget about new Stanley chisels - the steel is rubbish. ,,,,,,
> 
> Paul


How do you know that Paul? 
NB We all know you've got a bit of a thing about Stanley! :shock:


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## bugbear (19 Dec 2011)

No skills":94ph63s4 said:


> Hello again folks, hope the xmas build up isnt getting everybody down :ho2
> 
> Whilst digging through a tool box I'd not been near for a long time I found a fairly un-molested (straight, mostly rust free!!)set of stanley dynagrip chisels. I think their the first version of the dynagrip's, as its the nearest thing I have to a complete set of chisels I thought I'll tidy them up, sharpen them and stick them in my new tool cabinet * when its done. However I dont seem to have a 50mm chisel, not essential I know but its bugging me now. I've had a mooch round on the internet and found that theres been a couple of handle revisions over the years, I've also noticed that none of the new ones are marked as sheffield steel :?:
> 
> ...



Since you've got them, it costs you little to give 'em a go. They wouldn't have been my recommendation though.

Bugbear


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## No skills (19 Dec 2011)

[/quote]

They wouldn't have been my recommendation though.

Bugbear[/quote]


Mine neither!  

But their here, cost me very little (bout a fiver if I recall) and dont need that much work to sort, what is annoying tho I thought I had a complete set of older marples split proof's hanging round but I can only find two or three :evil: 

Getting something like a narex or AI to finish the set seems like putting alloy wheels on trabant #-o


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## Paul Chapman (19 Dec 2011)

No skills":o6fh1qho said:


> alloy wheels on trabant #-o



That could look quite cool 8) :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Racers (19 Dec 2011)

Hi, 

I have a set of Stanley Dynagrip and Marples as my going out chisels and they are fine, they where my main set at one point and they aren't bad, flatten the backs and sharpen them and they will seve you well enough.
Old Cast Steel chisels are nicer to use and will hold a sharper edge for longer.

Pete


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## woodbloke (20 Dec 2011)

I did a chisel test a couple of years ago for F&C using a range of inexpensive Stanley's and the like as well as more esoteric offerings from LN, Blue Spruce and Veritas. Paul C is right, without exception, the cheapo Stanley's and similar (Irwin etc) were made of steel only a little harder than decent cheddar. At the lower end of the market, I found the Marples with the yellow splinterproof handles very good (they might have been Sheffield made though) Footprint (no longer available) and Bahco's to be good. 'Two Cherries', Pfeil and LV chisels were also excellent in the sort of mid-price range...top on test in all respects were A2 LN's - Rob


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## andy king (20 Dec 2011)

woodbloke":3r2yjjzz said:


> I did a chisel test a couple of years ago for F&C using a range of inexpensive Stanley's and the like as well as more esoteric offerings from LN, Blue Spruce and Veritas. Paul C is right, without exception, the cheapo Stanley's and similar (Irwin etc) were made of steel only a little harder than decent cheddar. At the lower end of the market, I found the Marples with the yellow splinterproof handles very good (they might have been Sheffield made though) Footprint (no longer available) and Bahco's to be good. 'Two Cherries', Pfeil and LV chisels were also excellent in the sort of mid-price range...top on test in all respects were A2 LN's - Rob



Aside from the actual structure of the steel itself which may throw up issues, this seems at odds with tests I had done for Good Woodworking a couple of years back.
I had 18 different chisels independently tested for Rockwell C hardness and although I didn't have a Stanley Dynagrip in there, I did have a FatMax, (Sheffield made version) an Irwin 'Splitproof' which is the replacement of the original Marples one (no indication of origin, but likely outside of the UK) as well as a set from Axminster and S&J on the lower end side. A few older cast steel type, (Preston etc) as well as higher end chisels from LN, AI, Sorby plus Two Cherries, MHG, older Stanleys etc.
In that test, the results showed that the Irwins were 61C, Stanley FatMax 59.5C.
The Two Cherries was 60C, while an old Mawhood came in at 59.5C. AI was 60C, Sorby 60.5C, so the 'hardness' factor isn't the issue from those figures.
Across the board they averaged around 60C, with the Preston the hardest at 63C, the Footprint close behind at 62C.
Worse were the S&J, only 56C, and noticible both at the prep stage, and for durability.

cheers,
Andy


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## Newbie_Neil (20 Dec 2011)

Hi Andy,



andy king":34uzxy77 said:


> Aside from the actual structure of the steel itself which may throw up issues, this seems at odds with tests I had done for Good Woodworking a couple of years back.



Do you remember which issue your test was in?

Thanks,
Neil


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## bobbybirds (20 Dec 2011)

I had the opportunity to test drive some of the new Stanley Sweetheart chisels for an afternoon chopping and paring some DT's a few months ago. I have to admit I REALLY had a predisposition to disliking these and had the mindset that they would be a waste of money, but they very much surprised me. I don't want to say that they are the most amazing chisels going, but they they felt good in hand, really held an edge quite well and did their job admirably. I think you could do a lots worse than the new ones...


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## andy king (20 Dec 2011)

Newbie_Neil":1msdotmd said:


> Hi Andy,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Neil,

I have it down as issue 218.

cheers,
Andy


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## bugbear (21 Dec 2011)

bobbybirds":2piipaxc said:


> I had the opportunity to test drive some of the new Stanley Sweetheart chisels for an afternoon chopping and paring some DT's a few months ago. I have to admit I REALLY had a predisposition to disliking these and had the mindset that they would be a waste of money, but they very much surprised me. I don't want to say that they are the most amazing chisels going, but they they felt good in hand, really held an edge quite well and did their job admirably. I think you could do a lots worse than the new ones...



I think the OP was talking about the "normal" Stanley chisels, but I may be wrong.

I would certainly hope there's a performance difference between the Sweetheart and the others (note - googling reveals that Stanley make an amazing number of chisel models, including fatmax, Bailey, 16-150 series, 16-324, 16-180 series, ).

Amazon (USA) has $31.50 for a 1" 750 Sweetheart, but $12.99 gets you a 3 piece *set* of 16-150's.

BugBear


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## Jacob (21 Dec 2011)

Are these the ones with flavoured handles? Make mine Dandelion & Burdock!


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## No skills (21 Dec 2011)

Nice to see this thread has run on a bit.

In random order..

Is the absolute hardness of the steel the be all and end all of what makes a good cutting edge? or are there other traits of the metal that needs to be considered?

Yes I have been refering to the standard off the shelf stanleys rather than anything considered 'top end' by them, does any body know when the 'lower' models stopped using 'sheffield steel' - the ones I have here are around the 10 year or slightly older mark.

From the browsing I have done so far the only chisels I saw from the big manufacturers that claimed to have better quality steel were the marples blue chip, forgot to bookmark the page tho #-o 

More tommorrow, cant type any more


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## bugbear (22 Dec 2011)

No skills":2cjjcnxl said:


> Is the absolute hardness of the steel the be all and end all of what makes a good cutting edge?



No - but it's the simplest proxy. The "real" situation is so complex you need to be a metallurgist to understand it all.

Assuming the maker has integrity and hasn't gone for hardness "regardless", harder very-much-tends-to-be better.

The most obvious difficulty is that a fine, thin, light, hard cabinet makers chisel can be too much of a racing thoroughbred if you want some on-site prying out of old putty. That doesn't make it a bad chisel, any more than a Ferrari is a bad car. But if you want to transport a family of 8, it's the wrong car.

BugBear


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## Jacob (22 Dec 2011)

No skills":1xvt8t38 said:


> ...
> 
> Is the absolute hardness of the steel the be all and end all of what makes a good cutting edge?


No certainly not. Basically nearly all chisels, hard or soft, are perfectly usable. Though there will be some at both ends of the spectrum approaching uselessness. Harder means slower sharpening and risk of brittleness, and vice versa, so it's always a trade off. 
Some uses would particularly benefit from hardness e.g. thin carving gouges , but this would be a disadvantage with other uses, due to the brittleness.


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## No skills (22 Dec 2011)

So, rockwell hardness figures arent the be all and end all - unless one particular result is significantly different (higher or lower) then alarm bells should be ringing. Not knocking the work that people have put into the testing or anything like that, but its obviously part of the whole picture.

Having been following the other current chisel thread it seems apparent that anybody wanting advice on what to buy really needs to be very precise on what work the tool needs to do. Just saying 'bit of everything' can be answered simply by saying go buy some main stream bevel edge chisels, where as 'take the sharpest edge possible for paring' (for example) can then be answered specificly.

Amusingly I've decided to leave my own purchase for now, having priced up some new good quality 2" chisels and then had a laugh at what the ebay dealers want for an old one its just not worth it to complete a set thats not needed at the moment. Hell, if I get stuck for one I'll weld two 1" ones together :twisted: 

Thanks all for chipping in :ho2


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## jimi43 (22 Dec 2011)

I'd wait until after Easter and go to the biggest bootfair in the country...Basildon...near you isn't it?

A quid a pop at the most..even if you have to rehandle or sharpen them you are on to a winner every time you pick up a WARD or an I.SORBY or old "CAST STEEL" anything....

And...as an added bonus you can find yourself wandering hopelessly through the hundreds of "marks" to find out who made them and when.

Just be prepared to get up early for the really good ones!

Jim


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## Jacob (23 Dec 2011)

No skills":16dm1jre said:


> ......t anybody wanting advice on what to buy really needs to be very precise on what work the tool needs to do. ......


Just buy something which won't break the bank, and get stuck in. You'll soon pick up a better idea of what you need, or should have bought. It's not like a "problem" and a "solution" - it's a learning process.


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## bugbear (23 Dec 2011)

Jacob":deq5dn2p said:


> You'll soon pick up a better idea of what you need, or should have bought.



Obviously better (and cheaper) to buy the right thing in the first place.

_Experience is a dear teacher, but fools will learn at no other._
*- Benjamin Franklin*

BugBear


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## No skills (23 Dec 2011)

Yes good old Basvegas is near me, cant see me dragging the other half round there that early tho  

Still the price I pay for perfection  

:roll:


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## Jacob (23 Dec 2011)

bugbear":37u92rhi said:


> Jacob":37u92rhi said:
> 
> 
> > You'll soon pick up a better idea of what you need, or should have bought.
> ...


Except (as a beginner) you don't know which it is. 
If you followed some of the advice on here it could be extremely expensive. So you might as well play safe and get these, which are perfectly OK for a beginner and exactly the sort of tool to get your hand in with.


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## bugbear (23 Dec 2011)

Jacob":8y2x0tox said:


> So you might as well play safe and get these, which are perfectly OK for a beginner and exactly the sort of tool to get your hand in with.



Indeed. A particular recommendation is more useful that advice to go out and buy ... anything you find. Of course, there's a \healthy variety of opinions, such better supported by evidence or argument than others.

BugBear


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## Newbie_Neil (26 Dec 2011)

Hi Andy,



andy king":hmfrl6el said:


> I have it down as issue 218.



Thanks,
Neil


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