# Forstner Bit Help please



## Lightweeder (6 Feb 2010)

I want to use a Forstner bit to make the recess for initial chucking, where it's possible. I saw a demo by a brilliant turner a few months back, and he advised me that he does just that, but that I should buy decent one - a Planet sawtooth, around 50mm. He apparently uses his for end grain. I did that - the cost was £14.34. Disappointingly, it's not performing any better than the cheap ones. Could anyone advise me please ?


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## CHJ (6 Feb 2010)

LW, I don't think what you are experiencing is unexpected in end grain. 50mm is bigger than I would expect to be able to use in a normal home workshop pillar drill on end grain with any consistent success.

Do do so would require a cutter with considerably better cutting edges than you are likely to get on tools in that price bracket in my experience. HSS or Carbide versions could well be treble that price though, (I haven't checked lately they are out of my price range)

EDIT: See Here and Here for typical prices.


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## Lightweeder (6 Feb 2010)

Thanks Chas. Clearly you're right, as something isn't working, and the bit is new, so it's not a sharpening issue. I was however hopeful when I had this particular bit recommended, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say :? 

Thanks

LW


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## Mike Wingate (6 Feb 2010)

How well does it cut in side gran. For big holes, I start with the big forstner and drill down 1/2" or less. Then i hog out the waste with smaller drills on the drill press, finishing off with the large one to give a perfect hole.


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## wizer (6 Feb 2010)

LW I have been down this road. The two bits I tried were not cheap but were also not up to the job. It's a nice idea to quickly drill out the chucking recess. But I think it's wishful thinking with low end forstner bits. If I was serious about it I'd but a Clico bit. Which, without looking, would cost £60+ :shock:


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## CHJ (6 Feb 2010)

LW, if you can clamp your 'end grain' piece firmly to the table and the pillar drill has reasonable rigidity to maintain alignment, then you could try starting with a smaller bit and opening up to 50mm in stages.

This is what I did with the endgrain pencil/brush pots to be seen in latest Bits & Pieces below to remove the bulk of the material.

The rigidity is critical because the bigger bits will obviously have no centralizing guide.


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## Lightweeder (7 Feb 2010)

Mike - couldn't get down anything like half an inch with mine.

Wizer - as you say, hardly worth the hassle. 

Chas - I've tried clamping in husband's drill press, and I still only get a lot of smoke  

Trouble is, I recall when I first went to woodworking classes. I was making a knife block, which holes in the top for dropping in cutlery. The teacher drilled the holes for me with a forstner, and it went through like a knife through butter. Must have been a real Rolls-Royce he was using.

Thanks all.


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## duncanh (7 Feb 2010)

CHJ":213uu5di said:


> LW, if you can clamp your 'end grain' piece firmly to the table and the pillar drill has reasonable rigidity to maintain alignment, then you could try starting with a smaller bit and opening up to 50mm in stages.
> 
> This is what I did with the endgrain pencil/brush pots to be seen in latest Bits & Pieces below to remove the bulk of the material.
> 
> The rigidity is critical because the bigger bits will obviously have no centralizing guide.



What I do when I want to use a large sawtooth bit is to take out the middle using a smaller one. To get round the problem of centreing is to start off with the large size and drill maybe 2mm deep. This will establish a centreing hole. Now switch to the smaller bit and drill out the centre. Then switch back to the large one.
This is all done on the lathe as I have no pillar drill.


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## Bodrighy (7 Feb 2010)

This all seems a heck of a lot of bother to go to in order to make a recess for a chuck. I just do it quick with a parting tool. Hold the blank on the lathe with a plate or ring first on the top end then make your recess. 

Pete


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## CHJ (7 Feb 2010)

LW, the forstner bits are a bit like plane blades, there can be a significant difference in the 'sharpness' of the cutting edge associated with the angle etc. As you know a a general workshop plane that does all you need to take a shaving off a plank may not even look at end grain on the same board. It's much the same with forstner bits and they are far more difficult to refine the cutting edge.

Can you sharpen a pencil with your 50mm forstner bit cutting edge? I doubt it, and that's with the grain.

On side grain the bit is peeling as much as cutting short lengths of wood severed by the wings, on end grain it is chopping across solid wood.
Try cutting a pencil in half as opposed to sharpening it with a stanley knife to see the difference in driving power required.

The burning is because you do not have the power available to feed the cutter forward and at the same time turn it round, if your pillar drill is powerful enough (1HP?) and a good chuck fitted then applying a lot more hand pressure may get the cutter driving forward as opposed to skidding and friction burning.


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## tekno.mage (7 Feb 2010)

What speed is your pillar drill set on when are you trying to drill the 50mm hole into end grain? Big bits need slow speed, with frequent removal to clear swarf and allow the bit to cool down. If you tried to cut to much too fast you have probably have overheated and blunted your forstner bit so it will need sharpening before another attempt.

When I first started making boxes, I drilled out the insides with large forstner bits (not the expensive ones either) on a pillar drill. It did work and I was able to drill holes 2" - 3" deep into end grain of various hardwoods. I stopped using this method as it was so slow (especially on boxwood!) and I found it was quicker to hollow out the boxes with a gouge.

tekno.mage


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## Lightweeder (7 Feb 2010)

Duncan/Bodrighy - intention was to save time and effort with blanking plate or other mounting method. If I could do that, I would just turn a spiggot or a tenon.

Tekno - I take your point, and we did try slowing the speed, but it's not making any difference :? 

Chas - I'm with you on this. I think it's because it's end grain, principally. It's 'Enid' by the way, and I'm still trying to come to terms with that, after all these years


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## robo hippy (7 Feb 2010)

Drilling a recess in the top of my bowl blanks is standard procedure for me. I use a 2 5/8 inch Forstner bit, and drill about 1/4 to 3/8 max. You do not want the blank to sit on the chuck, just like when using a recess or tenon for the bottom of your bowl. With the problems you are having drilling, it sounds like the bit is dull. Shouldn't be right out of the box, but might be worth checking by comparing to another new one at the store where you bought it. A good saw sharpening shop can resharpen them, but you may have to look around a bit as not all of them can do a good job. It is more of a specialty item. Drilling a recess is a lot faster than using a face plate, and for coring, your core already has a centering spot with the recess, and the chuck never has to come off the lathe.

robo hippy


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## CHJ (7 Feb 2010)

Lightweeder":2svygyso said:


> .... It's 'Enid' by the way, and I'm still trying to come to terms with that, after all these years



Sorry about that, knew it was an E, didn't mean to use it actually just had the E filed away in my mental database but the rest obviously got scrambled. Tend to ignore the LW which brings up visions of a Light Saber wielding ............ :twisted: 

Either name sits well with me anyway, have fond memories of relatives with both names.


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## CHJ (7 Feb 2010)

robo hippy":2ykkuw3c said:


> Drilling a recess in the top of my bowl blanks is standard procedure for me. I use a 2 5/8 inch Forstner bit, .......
> robo hippy


Not quite so easy in End Grain though RH.

Personally I adopted the use of a 10mm screw chuck adaptor in my chuck very early on to form an initial spigot/recess. This works well in both side and end grain and holds a 30+ mm blank if necessary to form main recess, the method also covers a fair percentage of my rough bark on blanks. I guess it's all down to personal preferences and sticking in a comfort zone that becomes somewhat automatic.


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## Lightweeder (7 Feb 2010)

Just goes to show, we all have different ways of tackling this.

Chas - glad they're fond associations. 

Thanks to everyone. 

LW :wink:


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## profax (5 Mar 2010)

Lightweeder":20hlfu5t said:


> I want to use a Forstner bit to make the recess for initial chucking, where it's possible. I saw a demo by a brilliant turner a few months back, and he advised me that he does just that, but that I should buy decent one - a Planet sawtooth, around 50mm. He apparently uses his for end grain. I did that - the cost was £14.34. Disappointingly, it's not performing any better than the cheap ones. Could anyone advise me please ?



I have recently bought some TCT Forstner bits from Hong Kong via eBay for really silly money!!!
The trick is to buy them in small groups at a time so that the total value does not exceed or even come close (value of pound can vary!) to £18 the limit to avoid import duty and VAT.
If you can wait the 10 or 14days for delivery you cannot beat this source. Typical price for 45mm bit is £5.41 INCLUDING postage!!!!!! NB Currently I am waiting for a 50mm bit to become available.

Just go to eBay at www.ebay.co.uk
And enter the search string:
Boring Wood Forstner Bit Set for Drill Hole Tool (it is how the Chinese interpret it!!!!) or simply enter: Forstner Bit (this shorter version will get you all the UK sellers as well). If you want to go direct to the HK sites/sellers use the first search string. 
NB: you will need a Paypal account to make international payments but this is well worth having any way. This will enable you to make payments in ANY currency! 

Or you can search for the supplier bestvaluezone but I wouldn’t recommend it as they have over 20,000 items!!! And there are more than one seller offering these bits so “shop around” amongst the HK sellers.

Just a note about “ragging” perhaps the cutter was working too slowly or you were using one of those “Silverline” bits with titanium nitride or tin coatings? They are somewhat crappy – excuse my French. 
However, these TCT bits are very sharp and cut very cleanly.


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## Jonzjob (5 Mar 2010)

An address for this would be nice pretty please Profax 'cause I for one might just be interested??  

I have a set of Forstner bits, but the start from small to not very big...


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## profax (5 Mar 2010)

Jonzjob":38c59id7 said:


> An address for this would be nice pretty please Profax 'cause I for one might just be interested??
> 
> I have a set of Forstner bits, but the start from small to not very big...



Just go to eBay at www.ebay.co.uk
And enter the search string:
"Boring Wood Forstner Bit Set for Drill Hole Tool" (it is how the Chinese interpret it!!!!) or simply enter: Forstner Bit (this shorter version will get you all the UK sellers as well). If you want to go direct to the HK sites/sellers use the first search string. 
NB: you will need a Paypal account to make international payments but this is well worth having any way. This will enable you to make payments in ANY currency! 

Or you can search for the supplier bestvaluezone but I wouldn’t recommend it as they have over 20,000 items!!! And there are more than one seller offering these bits so “shop around” amongst the HK sellers.

Just a note about “ragging” perhaps the cutter was working too slowly or you were using one of those “Silverline” bits with titanium nitride or tin coatings? They are somewhat crappy – excuse my French. 
However, these TCT bits are very sharp and cut very cleanly.

Hope this gets through, I'm not sure how to activate the reply function

As the reply facility seems somewhat arcane and filters out urls then use a bit of nowse with www dot ebay dot co dot uk to repair the "report to moderator string generated in my reply
Be lucky!!!

yet another attempt! w w w dot ebay dot co dot uk


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## Jonzjob (5 Mar 2010)

They are somewhat crappy – excuse my French. 

Excusez-moi, mais ce n'á pas français!


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## CHJ (6 Mar 2010)

*profax,*The URL's in your posts are being caught by the spam trap as you are currently showing just 2 posts, after three or four posts when moderators/members have had a chance to check that you are not just spamming the forum with dubious web links it will leave you alone.


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## wizer (6 Mar 2010)

guys after trying some of Workshop Heaven's FAMAG forstner bits today, I can highly recommend them. They are the dogs whatsits :shock: :wink:


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## Walter Hall (6 Mar 2010)

Lightweeder":plfae2nr said:


> I want to use a Forstner bit to make the recess for initial chucking, where it's possible. I saw a demo by a brilliant turner a few months back, and he advised me that he does just that, but that I should buy decent one - a Planet sawtooth, around 50mm. He apparently uses his for end grain. I did that - the cost was £14.34. Disappointingly, it's not performing any better than the cheap ones. Could anyone advise me please ?



For Forstner bits £14.34 for a 50mm is still at the budget end of the market. A good compromise between these and the expensive £75 (for 50mm) Clicos (and Famags, which I agree are excellent Wizer but £98 ) is the Colt Maxicut range of Forstner bits. A 50mm is about £38 from Axminster. 

Walter


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## wizer (6 Mar 2010)

Yes those Colt's were at the bash today also but I did not get a chance to use them. I especially like their extension bar morse taper system, which I will eventually get for my lathe.


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## profax (7 Mar 2010)

I have been mooching around the web to learn what I can about what is available in the Forstner bit stakes.
One titbit might prove helpful - there are some "Bohrer" bits "FROM Germany" but they are exactly the same as those available from Hong Kong at a QUARTER of the German firm's prices!!!
You might want to ask WHERE these bits are actually MADE!
Don't get fooled by the higher price - it is no indication of higher quality only greater profit margins!!!


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## duncanh (8 Mar 2010)

I have a Colt bit for making pepper grinders with the Crushgrind system. Only place I could buy the correct size was from Constalble Woodcrafts which is where I get the grinders from.

I haven't had much time to use it, but from a few quick tests it appears to cut better than the boxed set I have (possibly from Axminster).

The extension bar works really well and locks the bit so tight that it's sometimes tricky to remove. It certainly stops it from rotating.


The Planet bit that Lightweeder originally bought and was disappointed with is slightly improved after I honed the inside cutting edge with a diamond hone. I think the timber she was attempting to drill was not ideal either.


One things that I've found helps with some of my blunter Sawtooth is to modify the cutting edge to be similar to the Colt ones. To do this I cut small indentations in the edge using a Dremel and cut-off wheel. In theory this stops the bit creating continuous shavings that can clog.


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