# unsure how to proceed



## Gary M (1 Sep 2007)

Hi all, 
i have been asked if i can make a few items for a friend, to which i replied *sure no problem* 
these are examples of what is required, 


















to be made from either walnut or elm !!! 
my problem is, 
do i make them from solid stock (expensive) 
or veneered mdf (also expensive ) 

ok lets say solid stock, the design is chunky, i would think at least 2" thick,i can get the timber ok but its quite expensive, around £40 - £50 per cb ft. 
so then how do i joint the sides? miters with biscuits, dovetails, box joints, but joints ? will these be strong enough ? 
any i have seen are all mitered but are either cheap looking hardwood from who knows where, or veneered. 

moving on to veneered mdf, at 2" thick or more this would mean at least two possibly three pieces of 3/4" mdf glued up, very heavy springs to mind !!! also i only seem to be able to get double sided veneered mdf at £65 per sheet (walnut cant get elm) so gluing two or three bits together would not be very economical! then the joints ? 

i hope you can follow my description and understand what i mean as i really need some good suggestions and methods, hopefully someone has made this type of furniture before. 
all suggestions gratefully received


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## SketchUp Guru (1 Sep 2007)

How about a third option? Hollow bits that just look solid. You could go with either solid or manmade materials. A sketch will make my thought easier to explain. I'll be right back.


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## SketchUp Guru (1 Sep 2007)

Alright, here we go. I hope this makes sense.






The neat thing about this is you can carry the grain around the edges and if you use veneered MDF, you can carry the grain pattern to the inside as well. You could make long boxes that could then be cut to length and mitred as needed for each of the pieces you're building.

I didn't show it in the drawings but you could add gluing blocks inside to make gluing and clamping easier. The miters at the ends could be joined with biscuits or you could add more blocks in the gaps to make a sort of finger joint if you want.


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## Gary M (1 Sep 2007)

Thanks Dave, 
Hmm, accurate cutting of long miters isnt something i would be 100% confident with, but i see what you mean. I suppose i could practise with some mdf first. clamping might be a problem too, what about tape ??


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## SketchUp Guru (1 Sep 2007)

Tape would work for clamping. As I said, blocks inside would aid gluing. 

As to the mitres, I would probably try a bit in a table mounted router. If you were really into it, you might also try one of those lock mitre bits. that would make it a breeze to align and glue up the parts.


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## jasonB (1 Sep 2007)

I would go for 4 or 6mm veneered one side MDF outer layers with ultralight MDF core to make up whatever thickness is required then the edges can be done with 50mm wide iron on real woodedging or traditional veneering. A bit like these shelves, which were actually 12mm V MDF with odd stripsto make up the thickness.

The tip with makeing shelves like this is to glue them up slightly oversize than trim to finish size that way you don't have to worry about getting all the layers level when clamping.

Jason


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## Gary M (1 Sep 2007)

thanks for your wisdom Dave, the miter lock bit sounds good to me !!

Jason i'm in n.ireland mate, 4mm or 6mm veneered one side mdf is unavailable from what i have found, one supplier said they had some 6mm veneered both sides but only in oak 
,when he checked said he would have to order it with hefty delivery charges !! 
never heard of ultralite mdf i'm afraid. i will enquire (should be good)
while i see what you mean i can only seem to get walnut veneered both sides 19mm mdf at £65 per sheet. ( is this reasonable)
im wondering how much cheaper single sided would be ?
the second side would be an unnessecary waste imo. 
i can get 6mm single sided veneered ply at a reasonable cost but only in oak which is not what is wanted for these items. 
I have been racking my brain as to what to do, can get all the veneered mdf from the mainland single or double sided, but the delivery would probably make it too expensive for me,
Cheers.


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## jasonB (1 Sep 2007)

If the client just wants a dark wood what about staining the oak board that you can get. Vandyke Crystals give a nice chocolate brown finish to oak and being made from walnut shells are the right shade of brown. I Won't suggest wenge boards as they are even more expensive than walnut and not likely to be available to you.

Whats the largest single panel going to be? could you veneer a glued up MDF core, flexi veneer would make the job easy (if you can get it) this is pre jointed veneer on a paper backing that you just glue to your core. Can be rolled so will fit in the back of a car.

The Ultralite board is about 2/3rds the weight of standard MDF and is ideal for use as a core material as it saves a bit on weight, not ideal for anything that needs a finish as its a bit too fluffy!!

If the £65.00 includes VAT then thats about right for small quantities of 19mm board

Jason


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## Gary M (3 Sep 2007)

Cheers Jason,
i think i will give the vandyke crystals a go and see what the oak looks like(worth a try)  
N. Ireland is the pitts for almost everything woodworking related especially specialised stuff, but i have emailed a few veneer suppliers to see if they can help :wink: 
Dave thanks mate, the mitre lock bit has really got me thinking i can do this, so ive been trawling the net for a decent one, 
cheap ones around £20 
quality around £60
So i will more than likely buy the quality version and hopefully it will last !!
Cheers.
I will try to keep you guys posted and maybe remember to take some WIP as i go !!!


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## darren242 (3 Sep 2007)

Hi, If its any help i can tell you that the ones in the pics are 2.75 inches thick and are made from 1 inch stock which is hollow in the centre, guess this is due to price aswell as weight, I have the measurements of those pieces of furniture on computer somewhere if you need them as i was thinking of making the same items a few months back.
Darren


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## Gary M (4 Sep 2007)

Hi Darren,
whats wrong you didnt make them ?


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## darren242 (5 Sep 2007)

nothing worng i probably still will make them some time, I just havent got round to getting the wood for it yet, When i do get round to it i'll make them from 1 inch oak by the way.


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## vsumouse (9 Sep 2007)

why mitre the internals?
if i was to make this i would use the same idea as the sketch but i would make a internal box with butt joints (screwed) then applie a s/w packer to required thicknes around the outer edges, then i would mitre the edges of the outer box and then edge with a 5mm thick solid all round with mitres.
this must the the easy way?

not sure how to insert pictures but if someone tell e i will show you a sketch


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## Philly (9 Sep 2007)

Gary
I recently made a table with similar blocky styling. Have a look....
http://www.philsville.co.uk/flutedcomplete.htm

Step -by-step is here..
http://www.philsville.co.uk/fluted_table.htm
I used solid stock and used an interlocking miter joint for the corners. It is solid as a rock.
Hope this helps
Philly


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## DomValente (9 Sep 2007)

I hadn't seen the step by step before Philly. Bloody marvelous, interestingly written and well photographed and of course the final product is lovely.

Dom


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## PJ (12 Sep 2007)

Gary,being from your neck of the woods, I would agree that getting veneered board in anything other than American Oak/maple is bad, and local species is a pipe dream!
I would tackle it similar to what Philly did, ie bandsaw Elm in about 4mm thick veneer strips and join to make up what ever width is required. For the core I'd probably use 50mm laminated Emeri, as it's cheep and easily got and pretty stable.
(McGreggors). Use the same 4mm veneer for the edges and chamfer/round over with a 1/8" bit to loose the side grain. Use Cascamite glue. 
I'd probably just mitre the corners and add a couple of stoped splines.
I good bit of work but the end result will be good.
A chunky table was done in F&C a while back using this method to gain 4" legs.

Just my two pence worth.

Philip


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## Gary M (13 Sep 2007)

Thanks guys for all your replies, a few good ideas, i think i will have a go at the thick veneering method at some stage, although its a lot of work  
I have had a stab at a table here https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=19236
hope you like it !!! 
Hi paul good to see you back on mate !
Philly could i ask why you made your table (lovely by the way) in so many bits and then glued them up ? i assume it was the best way to get the flutes right ? a lot of work eh !!
once again many thanks guys


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