# Bookcase door



## Carlpenter (22 Jul 2018)

I’m making a bookcase door and hoping some of you can bounce ideas with me. 

It’s 1.4m high x 2m wide 320mm deep with mirrored back.

I’m working to a possible weight of 300-400kg. 
Found a bottom pivot system used for gates capable of taking 500kg and thinking to make up a pin/sleeve for the top that can be fed in as I “hang” the door.

Would also like a dampener cylinder to stop the door slamming. Anyone come across such a thing that could handle this sort of weight?

Think I’ll use a magnet to hold it shut. 

Considering to make it in 2 parts. A frame (easier to handle, set up and swing) and the bookcase that I will attached to the frame once installed. 

Any advice/ideas/experience greatly appreciated.


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## sunnybob (23 Jul 2018)

would you confirm those measurements?
1.4 metres high, and 2 metres side to side?
You want ONE door, hinging outwards?

Thats a hell of a door in anybody's house. Is there room to swing it wide open?


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## Woody2Shoes (23 Jul 2018)

It's hard to visualise what you're trying to design. A side-hung(?) 2m wide door weighing 350Kg is quite a beast - it would need to be quite carefully engineered so it didn't flex/deform under its own weight, thus making it difficult to 'close' the door. I'm wondering if there's an argument for some steel framework, possibly including castor wheel(s) behind the scenes.


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## custard (23 Jul 2018)

Carlpenter":6fsm51n4 said:


> I’m making a bookcase door and hoping some of you can bounce ideas with me.
> 
> It’s 1.4m high x 2m wide 320mm deep with mirrored back.
> 
> I’m working to a possible weight of 300-400kg.



This is just daft.


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## Brandlin (23 Jul 2018)

> I’m making a bookcase door and hoping some of you can bounce ideas with me.
> 
> It’s 1.4m high x 2m wide *320mm deep with mirrored back.*



judging by that depth measurement I think what the OP means is that he wants to build a bookcase that opens LIKE a door. So the whole bookcase pivots and swings out.

Still at 2m wide and with that kind of mass, the moment on the pivot/hinge is huge. I cannot imagine anything being achievable without deformation, unless you go to a steel frame and even then i'd probably have an outrider wheel/castors on the bottom.

2m though. Really?


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## sunnybob (23 Jul 2018)

he;s building a bat cave, its a cover for the two firemens poles to the basement.


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## DTR (23 Jul 2018)

sunnybob":2nxp7c6t said:


> he;s building a bat cave, its a cover for the two firemens poles to the basement.



It does make you wonder, what tradesmen did Bruce Wayne use to fit out the Bat Cave? How didn't they clock on??


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## sunnybob (23 Jul 2018)

they did, but he killed them and ate the bodies. he was the DARK crusader dont forget. Dont be fooled by that cashmere cardigan.


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## thetyreman (23 Jul 2018)

wouldn't you need custom made titanium hinges for something like this? the weight is ridiculous, you'd need 4 men to move it around.


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## sunnybob (23 Jul 2018)

its a troll. But the hijack is fun. =D> =D> =D>


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

sunnybob":18135git said:


> would you confirm those measurements?
> 1.4 metres high, and 2 metres side to side?
> You want ONE door, hinging outwards?
> 
> Thats a hell of a door in anybody's house. Is there room to swing it wide open?



My mistake, 1.4m wide x 2m high.


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

Woody2Shoes":k6o851pb said:


> It's hard to visualise what you're trying to design. A side-hung(?) 2m wide door weighing 350Kg is quite a beast - it would need to be quite carefully engineered so it didn't flex/deform under its own weight, thus making it difficult to 'close' the door. I'm wondering if there's an argument for some steel framework, possibly including castor wheel(s) behind the scenes.



i have considered a steel frame but as I don’t weld, hoping a timber frame sandwiched btw ply will do the job. Will pivot this and then I’ll fix the shelving to it.


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

thetyreman":1mbxuxpm said:


> wouldn't you need custom made titanium hinges for something like this? the weight is ridiculous, you'd need 4 men to move it around.



That weight is fully loaded plus glass but I’m now thinking to make a timber frame, like a door blank and then attach the shelving to this. The advantage being handling and installation.


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

thetyreman":15n5g0n9 said:


> wouldn't you need custom made titanium hinges for something like this? the weight is ridiculous, you'd need 4 men to move it around.



This pivot can handle doors 1.4m wide @ 300kg
http://www.rtrservices.co.uk/d-65540059 ... 2111-p.asp

And these gate hinges go up to a tonne 
https://www.signetlocks.co.uk/product/b ... r-bearing/


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

Brandlin":2pgap29c said:


> > I’m making a bookcase door and hoping some of you can bounce ideas with me.
> >
> > It’s 1.4m high x 2m wide *320mm deep with mirrored back.*
> 
> ...



Yes, you have the right idea. 

2m is the height... 1.4m wide. My mistake.


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

sunnybob":1la1ay50 said:


> he;s building a bat cave, its a cover for the two firemens poles to the basement.



Yes, I do well off those guys. The Joker is next in the diary, wants his loft boarded.


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## Brandlin (23 Jul 2018)

Carlpenter":2vbmqmam said:


> Yes, you have the right idea.




Wait! ... So, you ARE Batman?


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## sammy.se (23 Jul 2018)

Holy hinge-load, Batman!

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk


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## Eric The Viking (23 Jul 2018)

Carlpenter":1md2v2gs said:


> thetyreman":1md2v2gs said:
> 
> 
> > wouldn't you need custom made titanium hinges for something like this? the weight is ridiculous, you'd need 4 men to move it around.
> ...



That's all very well, but to what are you fixing your door? 

There probably isn't any part of any wall in my house that would be strong enough to take those forces (as stated).


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## nev (23 Jul 2018)

Maybe consider instead of side hung hinges have a central vertical pole to pivot around. Maybe off centre if you need more 'doorway'. Would be less worry about loading that way?


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

Eric The Viking":241di3ju said:


> Carlpenter":241di3ju said:
> 
> 
> > thetyreman":241di3ju said:
> ...



Fixing to a door lining made from 32mm thick timber, screwed to a brick wall (exterior, the next room is an extension).


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## Carlpenter (23 Jul 2018)

nev":1f3negpl said:


> Maybe consider instead of side hung hinges have a central vertical pole to pivot around. Maybe off centre if you need more 'doorway'. Would be less worry about loading that way?



Yes that’s a point. Need to maximise the opening though, as the client is a big lad.

I intend to use a pivot system in any case.


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## Brandlin (23 Jul 2018)

i think what you are missing here is the physics of what you are attempting to do.

Assuming your load is 400kg and is evenly distributed then the centre of gravity is 0.7m (1/2 x 1.4m) from the hinge edge. Its not just the weight you need to worry about, it's the moment exerted on the hinge/pivot. This would be 400kg x 0.7m. This would be acting not just as a mass to be supported but also to pull the top corner of the hinge side directly away from the wall.

No matter what hinge/pivot mechanism you use, you are going to need make sure that whatever it is fixed to is sufficient, and I can't imagine a std 32mm door lining is going to work.

You can reduce this moment in two ways. Reduce the mass. Or reduce the distance from the CofG to the hinge. A central pivot would be a good way of both reducing the distance as well as transferring the load down into the floor (presumably to something structurally solid).

Whatever you do to strengthen this edge and whatever hinge and pivot you use I would look to counter this moment by supporting much of the mass on a jockey wheel or other castor arrangement on the lower corner furthest from the hinged edge.


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## LancsRick (23 Jul 2018)

Before you get into the design of the thing itself I'd get yourself comfy on your pivot and the required castors and floor support.

For the pivot you not only need one that will take this force but also a way of mounting it, this will need to be straight into solid masonry I'd suggest. 

For the castors, I assume you're going on to a hard floor so your options would be roller castors or normal ones under a false front skirt. I'd go for normal ones as they will be less sensitive to getting dirt trapped in them. 

Those are the two eat urea you have to design around so take it from there. 

As a passing suggestion, do you need the equivalent of a double door or will one half fixed and one half opening suit you? Becomes a far far easier piece of design then!


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## Adam9453 (23 Jul 2018)

Perhaps make it a pair of doors (both swung) on concealed tectus hinges. There are certainly hinges suitable for the weight but ideally you’re going to need to lighten and strengthen the doors by replacing timber with metal framework with thin timber cladding to make it look like wood (if that’s the desired finish). To overcome it self destructing due to the loads involved. I’d strongly recommend the castors to support the load vertically straight onto the floor as this will significantly reduce the load on the hinges, however the floor really needs to be flat to avoid issues with binding or they will need to be suitably spring loaded to deal with an uneven floor. Bookcase doors are typically much more successful when they swing into the hidden room as it allows all the gaps to be concealed behind architrave etc. Either way your clear opening is going to be restricted heavily by the depth of the door. On a side note, However much you think this is going to cost, double it then add 50%


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## sunnybob (24 Jul 2018)

I suspect this is a concealed room entry. If so, it would be simpler to make the whole damn thing slide sideways along the wall.
But if you are asking this question, you really should pass this VERY difficult job up.


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## MattRoberts (24 Jul 2018)

Why not just have the bookcase sitting on 4 appropriate load bearing casters? You can use any hinges you want then, as they're just there to anchor it to the wall


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## Just4Fun (24 Jul 2018)

A couple of people have suggested using castors to take some of the weight. The problem there is that castors running on a fixed path will eventually wear a track on the floor. Unsightly at best and maybe a serious problem if the idea is to hide a door - to a panic room for example.

I saw an article years ago about testing such a door backed with a panel having a thin steel plate sandwiched between two pieces of plywood. The steel was glued to the plywood and there were bolts through the full thickness of the panel. I don't remember specifics but the difference in strength & distortion compared to a similarly-sized pure plywood panel was considerable. The steel was thin enough that on its own it would be worthless but sandwiched between the plywood so it couldn't buckle it helped a lot. Still needs some serious hinges though.


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## sunnybob (24 Jul 2018)

I cant see any other reason for this than to hide a room, so a sliding unit can be very easily supported from the inside, where visibility is irrelevant. think of an airplane door type of thing.
Pull it out, slide it along. No marks showing on outside walls or floors.
That way it could even be powered, making access very quick.


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## Sheffield Tony (24 Jul 2018)

Just4Fun":33wavzty said:


> The problem there is that castors running on a fixed path will eventually wear a track on the floor. Unsightly at best and maybe a serious problem if the idea is to hide a door - to a panic room for example.



Only a problem if you are of _very_ nervous disposition :lol:


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## Just4Fun (24 Jul 2018)

Sheffield Tony":1pefyiin said:


> Only a problem if you are of _very_ nervous disposition :lol:


Yeah, not a problem for me - I can barely lock my house - but I believe some people do have such things as hidden rooms. Could be fun for a kid as well as a placebo for Mr Nervous I guess.

My wife tells me that she once rented an apartment for a year and it wasn't until she was cleaning prior to moving out that she found an additional room she did not know about previously. Perhaps that says more about her than about the apartment but we'll gloss over that.


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## Sheffield Tony (24 Jul 2018)

Just4Fun":3080jayh said:


> Sheffield Tony":3080jayh said:
> 
> 
> > Only a problem if you are of _very_ nervous disposition :lol:
> ...



I was not so much thinking of being nervous enough to want a panic room, but being panicky enough to to wear tracks in the floor by using it so often !

But as a kid's den - a secret room, how exciting.


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## sunnybob (24 Jul 2018)

I've known a few secret rooms filled with guns, that was my first thoughts. Of course, if you have a room full of guns what do you need a panic room for? :roll: :roll: 8) 8)


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## Brandlin (24 Jul 2018)

I have a room that I run to every time I see trouble coming.

It's called the garage.

And the trouble is called SWMBO.


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