# quality plywood ?



## donwatson (3 May 2016)

Hi All,
I am having some success with my new Parkside machine.
I am also happy with the blades I am trying out (Olsen various )
But there seems to be a problem with the plywood I am using. It keeps breaking out on the top surface ? Is there a grade of plywood I should be using. ?
Be careful if you answer this as I will be back with a load more daft questions  

take care
Don W


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## Claymore (3 May 2016)

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## DaveyP (4 May 2016)

> It keeps breaking out on the top surface ?



Turn the blade the other way up.. ?

Or consider using Flying Dutchman Ultra Reverse from Mikes Blades 

https://www.mikesworkshop.com/blades.htm


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## beganasatree (4 May 2016)

Hi Don,sounds like the blade is upside down.

Peter.


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## scrimper (4 May 2016)

As Brian says above Birch plywood is normally the type to use, you can usually tell if the plywood is decent for Scrolling by looking at the cut edge, in normal good quality plywood all of the separate veneers are the same size whether it is 3 or 5 layers or more, if the plywood has a centre veneer that is thicker than the outside veneers it is usually the cheaper stuff that is not very good for scrolling.
Most of the 'sheds' B&Q etc sell the stuff with a thicker core, it's ok for DIY etc but not much good for intricate fretworking.

BTW it's normally the bottom of the cut that splinters.


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## Aggrajag (4 May 2016)

If you're using good plywood and the Olson reverse/double reverse blades, particularly the PGT, then you'll find the bottom of the cut is as neat as the top and neither side will even need sanding.

I've bought Plywood from 4D Model Shop a couple of times and I've been more than happy with the quality although the price may put some off:
http://modelshop.co.uk/Shop/Raw-Materials/Wood-Sheet/
I got 6 sheets Plywood 6.5mm 600x300 for £33.65 including shipping.


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## donwatson (4 May 2016)

Thanks Guys for all your answers.
I was using the Olson Crown tooth blade on that particular project and it seems to have teeth that point up and down and cuts both ways.
@ scrimper, this particular piece of ply was a cheap buy, the whole sheet (8 x 4) was less than £15. It has one face that is almost white that I use for Pyrography, that is why I bought it. Looking at the layers I see a thick centre piece and the 2 outside faces look paper thin. In fact it looks as if you could sand the faces off without a problem. I have some Asian ply from Great Art that is 3 ply and very evenly divided so I will try a bit of that, a bit more expensive but it looks the real deal.
@Aggrajag, thanks for the link, I will try them when I need some more ply. I have some reverse tooth blades that I will also try.

Again thanks for your help, I will be back.

take care
Don W


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## scrimper (4 May 2016)

donwatson":1zf2b3qh said:


> @ scrimper, this particular piece of ply was a cheap buy, the whole sheet (8 x 4) was less than £15. It has one face that is almost white that I use for Pyrography, that is why I bought it. Looking at the layers I see a thick centre piece and the 2 outside faces look paper thin. In fact it looks as if you could sand the faces off without a problem.



That stuff is useless for fretwork it's not so much that the inner leaf is thicker but that it is made of softer almost 'piffy' stuff.
A good source of timber is old furniture as long as it's not chipboard or mdf, often the back panel is made from decent plywood and I particularly prize the draw sides sometimes you get oak or beech or an oak lookalike they are all good for fretwork, decent solid timber is better for fretwork but for delicate work plywoods have less chance of breakage.

You can see an example of an item made from both plywood and solid timber near the end of this thread please-don-t-laugh-it-s-my-first-attempt-with-a-camcorder-t97395-15.html


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## donwatson (4 May 2016)

I have just gone to the shed and taken some pictures to see if they are any help.
pic_1b is the Christine Ellenburg pattern I am using.
pic_2b is the middle of the wing showing where the piece has broken out.


@scrimper, I have just finished looking through your videos and they are fabulous, enough detail to keep me interested and very informative. I hope you do more. =D> =D>


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## scrimper (4 May 2016)

Don, Thanks for you kind comment about my videos.

I am not sure whether you are a newcomer to fretwork or not but if you are that is a really hard pattern you have chosen to cut, I have been fret-working for 50 + years and I would have difficulty doing that pattern!

I hope you don't mind me commenting but if you are going to do an intricate pattern like that one you need to get a smaller drill bit to drill for the cutouts, some of the holes are over the cut lines which will make it difficult for you to do a nice clean cut.


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## NazNomad (4 May 2016)

Looks to be 'not very good' ply that's delaminating? Follow Scrimper's advice and repurpose old furniture.


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## Claymore (4 May 2016)

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## scrimper (5 May 2016)

Some useful advice there Brian and it is so nice to see someone being so inventive, I just love stuff being made out of things that are not intended to be used for such a purpose, (I hope I have got that right) Charity shops for materials seems a good idea to me, being a scrimper I get given old furniture by my family and friends but I am going to check the local charity shop next time I am about.


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## donwatson (5 May 2016)

@ scrimper, yes I am new to the scroll saw as you can see. The pattern I like very much but it is, as you pointed out, a bit ambitious for me. As I said I am trying to get used to the saw and the blades. I have purchased a couple of books and will work my way through them, hopefully picking up the necessary skills along the way.
@ claymore, I have used Corian in my pen making and it turns very well but I don't think I'm ready for cutting it on the scroll saw. Good advice about the charity shops, I will have a look the next time I am out.

I made a zero clearance board and fitted it today. I opened a pack of Olson No 5 reverse tooth and fitted one to try it and it was like night and day. i am very happy with the cuts today. The biggest problem now is getting the blade threaded into the hole.
I think I will get the new books out in the morning and start at the beginning.
Thanks for all the advice guys, I will be back.


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## Claymore (5 May 2016)

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## donwatson (9 May 2016)

Hi,
Its me again, just looking in to say I have a couple of books on scroll sawing and they are showing me some great stuff.
I have cut the first 2 exercises, they recommend a #5 skip tooth , so that is what I used, great stuff, no rough bits on top and very little underneath.
I think I will like this scroll sawing.
Thanks again for your advice guys you really are the tops.

EDIT Maybe I should take some pictures


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## donwatson (12 May 2016)

I'm looking for some help again  
I have competed some of the exercises and am beginning to like this lots. Some pictures from what I have done so far I quite liked doing these pieces but have some questions. While cutting round the outline I did not get a smooth cut and the blade kept stopping then jerking forward. You can see that in the pictures. How do I remove the paper that is stuck on ?, I broke the feelers on the butterfly trying to sand it off.


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## DaveyP (12 May 2016)

> I did not get a smooth cut and the blade kept stopping then jerking forward



To be honest.... as a learning exercise the woods a 'bit' on the thick side (reduce it by 50 to 75%) or preferably use
something about 1/4" your progress will come on in leaps and bounds



> How do I remove the paper that is stuck on ?



Use a better / more suitable glue rather than stuff that's more suited for Formica on worktops, lol
look for Repositionable Adhesive Spray ..... or you could do what I do, and use wide clear tape


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## scrimper (12 May 2016)

donwatson":1d6x6oyo said:


> I'm looking for some help again
> I have competed some of the exercises and am beginning to like this lots. Some pictures from what I have done so far I quite liked doing these pieces but have some questions. While cutting round the outline I did not get a smooth cut and the blade kept stopping then jerking forward. You can see that in the pictures. How do I remove the paper that is stuck on ?, I broke the feelers on the butterfly trying to sand it off.



I will try to offer a little advice if I may.

Firstly I think you are getting on well with your cutting, I especially like the butterfly, well done. As Davey says you are using quite thick wood to begin with. it also looks like softwood which is a lot more difficult to cut properly, you rarely get a smooth cut with softwood and the jerking and stopping you describe is typical of cutting softwood across the grain it often does that especially with Spruce or European redwood (Pine). try to align the pattern with the most delicate parts such as the feelers on the butterfly to run with the grain of the wood rather than across it as you did here. 

FWIW don't give up on a project if you break a bit off, just keep a tube of super-glue handy, stick it on and no one will notice.

Removing the pattern depends on how what you used to stick it on with and how delicate the object is. All scrollers use different methods but as I explained in my cat bracket video I use water based gum or paste as it can easily be removed by dampening the paper. The feelers on your butterfly were always going to break off across the grain if not when sanding but later on.

If you can get hold of some hardwood you will find it much easier to cut without the blade wandering of jerking, also the cut edge will be silky smooth. Try to find some old chests of drawers and break it up for some decent timber to use for fretwork.
Your butterfly would be much better cut from some decent plywood.


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## donwatson (12 May 2016)

To be honest.... as a learning exercise the woods a 'bit' on the thick side (reduce it by 50 to 75%) or preferably use
something about 1/4" your progress will come on in leaps and bounds

I only used what the book recommended, in fact it was only 5/8" thick where the book said 3/4". It is a bit of B&Q's best timber. lol



> How do I remove the paper that is stuck on ?



Use a better / more suitable glue rather than stuff that's more suited for Formica on worktops, lol
look for Repositionable Adhesive Spray ..... or you could do what I do, and use wide clear tape[/quote]

Yes, the tin says it is for carpets ? lol I will get some Repositionable Adhesive Spray.

@scrimper, thanks again for wise words. I think I will run the exercises again using a better adhesive and better wood. I will also change the blade as I feel happier with a reverse tooth blade. The next exercises are for thinner wood and even paper and cloth ? so I have quite a lot of experimenting to do yet.

take care all
Don W


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## Aggrajag (13 May 2016)

Hi Don,

For my patterns I use wide masking tape (as sold for helping you paint around doorframes etc) which I get the wide stuff from Wickes, a pack of 4 for £9, lasts ages. Put a layer of this on the wood, overlapping a little on each row.

Then use Prittstick (or similar) to glue your pattern on top of the masking tape.

The great advantage with this is that the masking tape can be left on for ages, for example if you don't work on a project for a week, yet it will still peel off without leaving any residue on your work.

If you ever do any stack cuts (two layers of the same image at once) then you just use the exact same method but wrap the tape right around the edges of the wood and underneath a little, so that it holds the stack together, and then you don't need nails, screws or additional tape.

Best method I've found, try it, if you don't like it I'll give you your money back


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## donwatson (13 May 2016)

Thanks Aggrajag,
All very useful advice. I looks as if taping the wood and then sticking on the pattern is the way to go.
I have a fair bit of packing tape to be used up so I will gave it a go when when the shed warms up a bit. It is less than 5 degrees out there at the moment and it is just after lunch ?? far to cold to sit without the heater on.


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## tomasgursky (13 May 2016)

I've done some scroll sawing on a plywood we use for packing our machines at work and only had to sand the bottom bit even when I used reverse blades. But then I adjusted my Axi EX-21 to have fine pendulum instead of coarse and bottom part of blade is now cutting as well and don't have to do that much sanding at all.
Previously I used Rexon SS16SA with good result too.
I also have done some scroll sawing on cheap offcuts plywood from B&Q with good result. So maybe I would look if blade is installed correctly.


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## donwatson (20 May 2016)

Hi All I'm back,
Finished a little project today done with some good quality ply. The ply is 1/4" and, I think, a bit heavy.
@scrimper, I ordered some 1/8" ply today from your recommended site. I will let you know how that goes.


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## Claymore (20 May 2016)

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## donwatson (20 May 2016)

Thanks Brian,
My grand-daughter has just got herself a pup and I liked this design.
I will post on ScrollSaw Village wth it and credit the designer


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## beganasatree (21 May 2016)

Hi Don,

Glad that you got the blade cutting problem sorted there will be no stopping you now.Don what books are you using??

Peter.


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## donwatson (21 May 2016)

Hi Peter,
I am using the 'Scroll Saw Workbook', by John A. Nelson at the moment, and working my way through the exercises. Lots of different exercises and all very interesting, but it is a matter of practice and finding the tools that you are comfortable with.
My other book is 'Success with ScrollSaws, by Julie & Fred Byrne, this also contains loads of exercises and advice but leans more towards segmentation/intarsia. Another brilliant book and I can't wait to get started on it.
@ scrimper, I ordered 10 sheets 3.2mm ply yesterday afternoon and they were delivered this morning. Excellent result from 4d model shop.
http://www.modelshop.co.uk


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## donwatson (23 May 2016)

Hi All,
I'm back  Following the advice of scrimper and Aggrajag I cut the butterfly again.
I orientated it to run with the grain as scrimper suggested and used masking tape stuck to the wood and then the pattern stuck with Pritt stick as advised by Aggrajag and the whole taped over with parcel tape.
I cut with an Olson #5 reverse tooth and am very pleased with the result. After cutting the the masking tape peeled the lot off and there was practically no sandind needed.
Tomorrow I am off to the club and hope to cut a little intarsia exercise.
Thanks for the help everyone.

take care
Don W
PS I tried to get a picture of the Pug after I framed it but my grand daughter already has it on the coffee table


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## Aggrajag (23 May 2016)

Great work, well done.


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## beganasatree (26 May 2016)

Hi Don,thanks for the info about the books.Is your club in Glenrothes ????

Peter.


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## donwatson (26 May 2016)

Hi Peter,
I am a member of the Broxburn Woodcraft Club and it meets in the Strathbrock Centre in Broxburn.
We have access to the workshop 5 days a week from 9 am until 9 pm. A great club and every type of woodworking goes on and we have a dedicated 'Stickmakers' section for making walking sticks, shepherds crooks etc.

take care
Don W
PS They also have a library of well used books and I think those books are in there


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