# Setting and Sharpening a Spoke Shave



## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Just before xmas I went through an 2nd hand tool buying frenzy and got meself an old Record A151. In light of recent events I thought I would try the hand tool method for finishing off some curves. 

Could someone shove me in the direction of a website that might show an silly person like me how to set one up and sharpen the blade?

TIA


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## Pete W (2 Jun 2008)

Compared to a lot of galootish subjects, there's not a lot on spokeshaves out there. Here's a guide to rehabbing and tuning by Bob Smalser.


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## dh7892 (2 Jun 2008)

Out of interest (and appologies for hi-jacking your thread) but where would you recommend in NW Kent for finding second-hand tool? I've been to the car boot fair at Hewitts farm and there was a tool guy there. Anywhere else I should look?


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Pete, thanks for that. Seems like a bit of a learning curve. I will have a play.

dh7892: I'm probably not the man to ask, my old tool purchasing has never ventured further than eBay. I have been to the very big boot sale at Pedham Place but never really found anything obvious.

My thoughts on finding bargains at boot fairs is to go to the smaller, local events. The big ones tend to attract regulars who know what they are selling.


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## jonbikebod (2 Jun 2008)

I hadn’t seen that link before but there is some good information there. 
I am in the process of writing up spokeshave tuning for someone else. I can pass it your way as well if you would WiZeR.
Jon.


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

Hi Wizer,

In my experience, you will struggle to get that spokeshave working well. The Record and equivalent Stanley's are not at all well made (particularly the bed for the blade). I did a lot of work on mine and gave up eventually.

If you want one that will work well, get a second-hand Stanley #53 with adjustable mouth or a new Veritas (either the low angle one or the more conventional design). They do work very well.

For sharpening the blades, I find the Veritas small blade holder works well - you can clamp it in a honing guide, either the Eclipse style or the Veritas one.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Jon: yes please, that would be very interesting.

I found this article on FWW on fettling the 151:

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... 158045.pdf

which suggests replacing the blade and iron. Surely by the time you have done this then you could have at least bought the LV spokeshave?

Thanks Paul, I have read that the 53 might be a better design. Bit thin on the ground tho aren't they? I have the MkII honing guide, will the blade fit in it?

I am also considering blowing the budget and going for a boggs style LN. If only my finger hadn't been mangled at West Dean yesterday, I could have compared it to the LV equivalent.


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## Chris Knight (2 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":3v8udq50 said:


> Surely by the time you have done this then you could have at least bought the LV spokeshave?



Zackerly!


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## newt (2 Jun 2008)

To hone my S.S. blade in the eclipse jig, I tape the blade to a standard plane blade and then use the jig as normal.


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## Paul Chapman (2 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":14atk27n said:


> Thanks Paul, I have read that the 53 might be a better design. Bit thin on the ground tho aren't they? I have the MkII honing guide, will the blade fit in it?



I bought my #53 from Pennyfarthing Tools http://www.pennyfarthingtools.co.uk/ I've seen several in there from time to time so might be worth giving them a ring.

Spokeshave blades are quite short so they will often not fit in a honing guide, which is why I use the Veritas small blade holder which you can clamp in the honing guide http://www.brimarc.co.uk/home.php3?page ... s&pc=P3203

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mr Ed (2 Jun 2008)

Some years ago after reading what James Krenov has to say about getting good performance out of cheap Kunz spokeshaves with a bit of tuning, I thought I would follow suit and bought a pair.

Even after a fair bit of fettling and a razor sharp blade (as far as the steel quality would permit) I never got them to work satisfactorily. I went on to buy a veritas round bottomed spokeshave which worked brilliantly more or less straight from the box.

My view on this is that given the relatively modest price of the veritas models why waste the time on an old tool trying to make it work? If you enjoy the process of tool tuning then by all means crack on. If you want more or less immediate performance I would buy a new model such as the veritas.

Cheers, Ed


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## paulm (2 Jun 2008)

Hi Wizer,

I have a couple of the Veritas shaves, flat and round bottomed and they are indeed very good.

Having watched Brian Boggs at West Dean using his own design of Bogg shaves that LN manufacture, and having handled them at the show together with the Veritas for comparison, I would probably go with the LN if I were buying again, and in fact I might anyway if feeling flush one of these days (after getting over the shock of splashing on a set of BS paring chisels at the show and if SWMBO ever lets me out again that is !!!) !

The LN version subjectively felt better balanced and nicer to handle, but both are way, way beyond the standard Record fare which are liable to put you off shaves all together.

Cheers, Paul.


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## wizer (2 Jun 2008)

Thanks Chisel, I own the smaller LN spokeshave and find it very nice to use and I like the method of adjustment. Time to sell another kidney.... :?


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## Harbo (2 Jun 2008)

I have just been sharpening my Veritas spokeshaves using the standard Veritas II honing guide without any problems - though it is very near it's limit!

Did anybody bid for Brian Bogg's chair - I see on his web page they go for about £500?

Rod


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## bugbear (3 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":103x1hra said:


> Just before xmas I went through an 2nd hand tool buying frenzy and got meself an old Record A151. In light of recent events I thought I would try the hand tool method for finishing off some curves.
> 
> Could someone shove me in the direction of a website that might show an silly person like me how to set one up and sharpen the blade?



The main problem with sharpening that is holding the blade.

Many honing jigs won't work, and hand holding is difficult.

Either make or buy a blade holder;the traditional way was a simple saw kerf in the end of a piece of wood.

Here's a fancy commercial version:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx ... 43078&ap=1

(I could have SWORN there were instruction for a DIY version of that on the LV site, but I can't find it)

BugBear


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## Chris Knight (3 Jun 2008)

You can also trap a spokeshave blade between the blade and cap iron of a regular plane - well enough to use a standard eclipse jig anyway.


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## George_N (3 Jun 2008)

There is a Stanley #53 currently for sale on Ebay for about £13 inc p&p. Of course it will go up in price now that I have posted the info on here (I'm not the seller by the way, just trying to help).


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## Racers (3 Jun 2008)

Hi,

Watch out for Preston spokeshaves they out perform stanleys, or go for a low angle wooden spokeshave ,they can be remouthed and you can fit grub screws to sort out loose blade tangs.

Pete


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## Racers (3 Jun 2008)

Hi,

Here is some of mine,







Bottom left 3 Preston, Miller Falls cigar (N01) Stanley 53 adjustable mouth, new Stanley. 
Bottom right 3 wooden low angle, second up with a new wear strip third up with grub screws, small Record, un-marked, Record, new Stanley.

I usually go for the wooden ones or the Prestons/Stanley 53. The third Preston didn't have an adjuster (snapped off) and needed a new blade but it has a round sole and was cheap it, now has a Ray Isles blade and a home made adjuster.


Pete


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## wizer (3 Jun 2008)

I already own the smaller LN Spokeshave which I believe is a Preston design. I do indeed prefer this method of adjustment but the spokeshave itself is a little on the small side for the kind of work I want to do.


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2008)

Racers":3jzv2pc7 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Here is some of mine,



I'm guessing you bought the "new stanleys" first, and paid more for them than any of the (marvellous) others?

BugBear (who knows Pete is a car boot hound extraordinaire)


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## Racers (4 Jun 2008)

Hi, BB

The Millar Falls was more than the new Stanleys, but you are right about the rest. 


Pete


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## wizer (4 Jun 2008)

I seem to remember a thread about you restoring the Miller Falls. How did that go? What do you use that shave for?


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## Racers (4 Jun 2008)

Hi, Wizer

Its good for really tight curves, if you can get it in a hole it will cut.


Pete


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## lurker (4 Jun 2008)

Nice set of "users" not a collection Pete :lol:


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## jonbikebod (4 Jun 2008)

WiZeR,
When you are in better shape you are welcome to pop over and give some shaves a try (my collection is much like Pete’s). I also have 151s in various ‘levels’ of tune/expense and some high end modern stuff to compare them with. Sounds like Pete and I have trodden a very similar path…
There are as far as I know three sharpening guides that will hold a 151 blade (or similar) without modification. The Veritas Mk 2, Richard Kell #2 and the Stanley 81-050. The Stanley is most usually found bundled with an oil stone and oil these days. Veritas sell a small blade holder that is supposed to hold spokeshave blades in a Mk 1 guide but it only really works with their small low angle blade.
As a rule flat based shaves are easier to make work than curved sole shaves. Aslso as a rule, earlier shaves make a better starting point than modern ones.
A 151 can be made to work fairly well cheaply and very well expensively. There can’t be many tool boxes or tool draws across the land that don’t have a neglected and useless 151 lurking in their darker recesses. More than any other spokeshave this model has earned spokeshaves in general a reputation as being difficult but a well sorted one is a joy to use.
I think a well prepared low angle wooden shave is even better but that is as subjective as bevel up compared to bevel down bench planes…
Jon.


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## wizer (4 Jun 2008)

That's a kind offer Jon, thanks. I am pretty much sold on the boggs. Just need to get this finger working again.

What do you guys use your spokeshaves for? I don't know why but I have always been intrigued by them. Can't wait to have a play.

How are the wooden ones adjusted? They look as if the blade is in a fixed position?


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## Harbo (4 Jun 2008)

I have been using my 2 Veritas ones (flat & curved) making Norm's deck chair out of some oak. Trimming the pieces down after bandsawing. 
It has about 40 separate pieces mostly curved and needs a special Rockler brass fitting kit - I have been working on it for over a year now (on & off - mainly off  ) I did intend to make a pair but I think now it will just be one?

I also have a Woodjoy low angle jobby which uses a push/pull allen key arrangement for adjustments. I find it a bit too "hungry" with the oak and find the Veritas cope better with it?

I was very impressed with Brian' tools and would love to have his Shavehorse and somewhere to store it (LN $650) - you can also download plans to make it from FWW.

Rod


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## Racers (4 Jun 2008)

Hi WiZeR

The tangs on the wooden ones are an interference fit in the body so you just tap them to adjust. But if they go rusty they become loose you can clean the holes out glue wood in, or shims to the sides, and recut the holes its lots of work thats why I fitted the grub screws.


Pete


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## lurker (4 Jun 2008)

Harbo":3mho8kf6 said:


> you can also download plans to make it from FWW.
> 
> Rod




Rod, do you have a link?

I was eyeing up that one on the front cover of Nick Gibb's new magazine


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## wizer (4 Jun 2008)

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/ ... x?id=24697


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## bugbear (4 Jun 2008)

Harbo":18ionuaz said:


> I was very impressed with Brian' tools and would love to have his Shavehorse and somewhere to store it (LN $650) - you can also download plans to make it from FWW.
> 
> Rod



Here's a small and indoor workshop friendly variation:

http://home.rochester.rr.com/dmatthews/shavepony/

BugBear


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## Harbo (4 Jun 2008)

Here's my Woodjoy:






And here's some of the bits!!:






Here's what it might look like one day?:

http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct.php?0212

Rod (sorry about picture size- transferred from another site)


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## jonbikebod (4 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":394dgmhz said:


> I am pretty much sold on the boggs.


I would have said the Boggs was great when you get it set but it can be pretty tricky just right. I think others have had similar difficulties and I think I am right in saying David Charlesworth made a magnificent adjusting mechanism for his. Having seen Brain Boggs do his thing with one of his shaves at the weekend, he was adjusting it constantly to be ideal for the precise area of grain he was working. Because it has a heavy blade, a deft tap on the ‘ear’ of his shaving horse (one side of the shave or the other) was one method but he was constantly sliding the blade back and forth with his fingers as well. Obviously I need more practice….
I use my shaves for chamfering when a surface is other than straight. Any curved work – handles for example are immensely more satisfying (as well as quicker and quieter) than sanding. Finishing of curved table legs – the classic uses are cabriole legs and chair arms. But you can also use them on the ash frame of your Morgan restoration, making re-enactment tools/weapons. In short for so many of the odd woodworking jobs that those heavily reliant on machines would probably avoid.
Jon.


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## Racers (4 Jun 2008)

Hi,

That reminds me I have a Ron Hock spoke shave blade thay needs a body making, must look at David Cs book and get it made.


Pete


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## jonbikebod (4 Jun 2008)

WiZeR,
Perhaps I can explain a little why hand tools can be so well worth getting to grip with. 
Four years ago I went to America to take a course with Garrett Hack. It wasn’t the course he is doing this week on inlay work but one intended to show Americans the forgotten virtues of hand tools. This was back when the American hand tool renaissance was just gathering momentum due largely to the new availability of quality hand tools from the new wave of manufacturers like Lie-Nielsen and Lee Valley. 







This is one of the exercises from the course. It took Garrett less than ten minutes to demonstrate and all the pupils on the course had completed theirs inside half an hour. The course attracted a very eclectic mix of people by the way, this one included a ballerina! 
The plank is cherry and the curve was marked by bending a six inch rule and drawing the curve on the end. The curve was cut with a low angle block plane. Then the chamfers were marked with a pencil held in the hand and fingers acting like the stock of a marking gauge or the fence of a router. I have seen carpenters do this but never before a cabinet maker. Not only is this quick but if you don’t like the way it looks you simply draw another line. There is also absolutely no need to have a 45º chamfer because you can as easily cut any angle chamfer by hand. Actually there is a great temptation to avoid ‘standard’ angles to show they were cut by hand (in a similar way that it is tempting to hand cut dovetails more finely than a router cutter could ever do). Having never done this before I was surprised how accurate and intuitive this method of marking out was. The long grain chamfers were cut with either a bench plane or block plane (I can’t remember now). The chamfer on the curve was cut with the Boggs shave you see in the background. It took me about a quarter of an hour from start to finish which is way faster than I could do it with a bandsaw,/disk sander/router table without noise, burning or risk to digits. It was much more satisfying as well.
As it happens I have a lot of scar tissue on one finger of my left hand due to carelessness with a router table. I still have several router tables but it isn’t my automatic approach to shaping or moulding (I also have a Stanley #45 and wooden moulding planes that win hands down for small runs). Garret is a prolific professional cabinet maker first and foremost. Teaching and writing are sidelines but he lost the tops of two of his fingers to a planer. As you are finding out, such an experience is inclined to make you question machines as the automatic choice. 
Jon.[/img]


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## wizer (4 Jun 2008)

jonbikebod":1i36pbny said:


> As you are finding out, such an experience is inclined to make you question machines as the automatic choice.
> Jon.



Yes it's funny that. But after being told yesterday that I might not get full movement or feeling back in that finger, I'm kind of looking at the hobby in a different light. I literally can't afford to take risks. Even a slightly more serious injury could very well have put me out of work for a very long time. I realise thousands of people have used powered machines all their life without an injury. It only takes a second to be on the other statistic table. I doubt I'll ever be a hand tool purist. But I will look to reduce power use wherever I can.

Thanks all for your views. I will let you know how I get on.


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## Benchwayze (9 Jun 2008)

WiZeR":1jhkahn6 said:


> Just before xmas I went through an 2nd hand tool buying frenzy and got meself an old Record A151. In light of recent events I thought I would try the hand tool method for finishing off some curves.
> 
> Could someone shove me in the direction of a website that might show an silly person like me how to set one up and sharpen the blade?
> 
> TIA


Hi Wizer, 

To sharpen spokeshave blades, I grip the blade between an old plane iron and breaker. Tighten it up and sharpen away, as you would a plane-iron. You can even use a honing guide if you sharpen this way. I have never found the need to use any angle other than 30 deg for the honed edge, but I do fettle the mouths and polish the soles, as I would a bench plane. A bit of attention around the mouth is usually in order, as the castings can be pretty rough. I think Krenov wrote on the subject in the 'The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking.'

Regards

John


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## wizer (9 Jun 2008)

So if the primary bevel is 30 degrees, should there be a secondary bevel? Which angle?


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## Benchwayze (9 Jun 2008)

Aways used 25/30 myself as per a plane iron. 
Never had problems once I got them flat'back and sharp. 

Someone will no doubt tell me if I am wrong, but it's always worked for me.

Regards
John


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## woodbloke (10 Jun 2008)

Having read this thread with considerable interest, I was out in the 'shop last night and tried to hold the blade of one of my Veritas shaves 'twixt the blade and cap iron of a standard Record No4 iron, but the cap bolt wasn't really long enough to grip well and and shave blade kept slipping around. I want to use my Eclipse clone gauge and need some way of securing it in...may well try Pete Newton suggestion of taping to another blade - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jun 2008)

woodbloke":v6hunz15 said:


> Having read this thread with considerable interest, I was out in the 'shop last night and tried to hold the blade of one of my Veritas shaves 'twixt the blade and cap iron of a standard Record No4 iron, but the cap bolt wasn't really long enough to grip well and and shave blade kept slipping around. I want to use my Eclipse clone gauge and need some way of securing it in...may well try Pete Newton suggestion of taping to another blade - Rob



When I see you next, I'll bring down my Veritas small blade holder and you can try that out. That would probably work OK in your Eclipse guide.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (10 Jun 2008)

Paul - OK that'll be good, would be interesting to use it...don't forget to bring the Veritas Mk II as well :wink: - Rob


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## Benchwayze (10 Jun 2008)

Hi Folks, 

I never had any trouble with the spokeshave blade slipping about between the cap iron and the blade. (I don't use oilstones btw.)
Maybe a piece of wet and dry stuck to the blade with double-sided tape might help.

If not you can always make a spokeshave blade holder, out of scrap. Just a sawcut in the end of a suitable sized piece of scrap, and a bolt and wing nut fitted, to tighten the 'jaws'.

Or maybe use one of the disposable-blade wallpaper scrapers, to hold the blade. That would probably mean sharpening without a guide though. 

Regards
John


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