# Box Mitre



## Richard T (10 Jan 2014)

As hinted at in another thread, I started a box mitre plane over the hols. 

I have been thinking through the process of making these planes since before I started on bevel down types (largely thanks to Bill C) and it is quite a scary prospect. Only now, after I have cut a lot of steel dovetails, do the ideas of 'prototype' and 'doesn't matter if the first one goes wrong' have a reasonable air of comfort. 

So I made a start before Christmas. 5mm sole, 3mm sides and end piece and a bridge from a bit of scrap that I didn't measure the thickness of. 





I took these bits along to the David Stanley auction earlier this month to show to people and to ask Bill Carter what the bridge angle should be. I had guessed that it may be as little as 10 degrees greater than the angle of the iron ... he said more like 6 or 7. So I put it in at 7.
Then I let the end plate in at either side with dovetails.





After it was all cut, marked and stamped there was no excuse for putting off the scary part any longer. So I cut a form out of Oak, shaped it with a flat end and set about doing it.









So far so good but it won't go any further because of the jaws of the vice so I have to take it out and bend it with the vice. The form gone, it made a perfectly round back. Some irony - there is no way it could have become so round if I had not started to bend it with a flat in the middle. 

Added the bridge





and the front plate





All in all it was not as difficult as I had feared. Mind you it bit me.





the next bit to look forward to.









marking the ends of the pins against the sole and cutting the dovetails to those marks. It's not just making a dovetailed plane, it's making one upside down.


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## Kalimna (10 Jan 2014)

What a fantastic project to get your teeth stuck into. I can't imagine the precision needed to get that bend right. Will this have an infill? If so, what do you plan on using?

Cheers,
Adam


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## Richard T (10 Jan 2014)

Thanks Adam. I have only ever used Walnut for infills before but I don't think that Walnut will be up to the stresses of wedge duties. I do have some other stuff squirreled away though, so maybe Yew - maybe Lilac.


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## Racers (10 Jan 2014)

Hi Richard

Well that looked fairly painless, can't wait for the next instalment!

Pete


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## Pekka Huhta (10 Jan 2014)

Brilliant! Getting that bend symmetrical is something I would hate even to think doing myself. It would be pretty nifty having a skew-ish mouth as the dovetails would be 3 mm off on the other side of the plane... ](*,) 

Great work. 

Pekka


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## jimi43 (10 Jan 2014)

Oh dear Richard! You picked my favourite style of plane there mate. I want an original and I think I am up for a Spiers at the next Stanley auction but this looks fantastic!!

The amount of work that I know you will be putting into this means that it deserves something really really special as an infill....I am thinking that a burr will be just the ticket for this little baby rather like Bill Carter's latest one.

I still feel that box is one of the nicest woods for these planes...especially if it is aged in such a way as to give it some vintage look as Bill is also the past master at.

Whatever you choose...I think this is going to be a cracker!!!

=D> =D> =D> 

Jim


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## ac445ab (12 Jan 2014)

The difficulties increase but I'm sure this will be another master piece.
Ciao
Giuliano


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## tobytools (15 Jan 2014)

Very nice Richard, it's came a long way since I last saw it  
Looking forwards to the next bit 
TT


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## Harbo (15 Jan 2014)

Nice work - I got a bit concerned at the very wide mouth but realised your Worktop colour was being reflected onto the angle! 

Rod


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## MMUK (15 Jan 2014)

Lovely  More pics please


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## Richard T (15 Jan 2014)

I've been in the forge for a few days - the fire is so much nicer than the one in the shed ..... I haven't got one. But before it got so cold I did manage to 'do up' the upper body. 

Dovetailing both sides: something I've not done before. 'citin'. Also something I didn't think about was supporting it to pein the end pins .... 





.. a bit of wood to protect the back seemed good enough. 

Tried out my new stamps on the bridge (before it was in of course.)





Beginning the disappearing act on the bridge tenons





and on the front









I did a bit more work on the joints before my camera battery ran out again but there will be lots more filing down the sides when the sole is on and when the pins go through so a nice finish can wait.


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## Richard T (27 Jan 2014)

Been busy with cutting out the dovetails in the sole.





Quite a bit more difficult to make fit with a two piece sole; some creative peining to be done. 









The question of what to infill it with .... see that tatty old log getting a ride on The Thing in the Garage?





That's Yew that is. 





And it has a _lot_ of sap wood. :? 





I squared up both sides then ripped it straight down the middle.









I took one slim piece off one side to make a very posh axe handle amongst other things 





and set about cutting infill bits off the other half.

More later.


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## MMUK (27 Jan 2014)

Looks good but wouldn't the sole DTs not have been better the other way round? To prevent the body pulling off?


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## rileytoolworks (27 Jan 2014)

This is going to be SPECIAL.
I can't wait to see more.

Adam.


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## Richard T (27 Jan 2014)

Thanks Adam 

Mr. MMUK .... I think the other way around might have been _too_ difficult. :shock: :wink: 

The infill to support the iron .... I had to think hard as to the order I cut this.





I cut it about 3/32 oversize each side and marked what needed to be cut off the height before marking the curve and then getting it nearly to width. Simply, I wanted to get it as near as I could before cutting the angle after which it would be very difficult to hold. I started on the sides with a rasp but more drastic things were needed and I tried a skew rebate but the mad - grained Yew was too much for it so I switched to this one on the right:





Not so much a round as a slightly cambered skew rebate. If I ever need to scrub in an everso gentle, small way, this is the chap. It's really efficient and safe. Here is a side with the smooth scallops of the 'scrub' marks either side of the roughness left by the SR in the middle and the rasp on the end.





Anyway, I got it down without tearing and marked the saw cuts.





Things as far as I got tonight. Back infill ready to shape to fit and front infill blank cut out. 

Of course I'm already planning the next one and I'm going for smaller and bi metal.... I'm sure no one has thought of that before. 8)


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## jimi43 (27 Jan 2014)

You're very brave indeed using yew as an infill!!!

Horrible grain transitions as I found out when I did the bowsaw! But it should look a beauty!!

Love it mate...love it!

Jimi


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## Richard T (27 Jan 2014)

Hmmm some pictures missing there ....









And I tried planing up an off cut and putting some raw Linseed on it..


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## Richard T (27 Jan 2014)

Dead Right Jim - I'm taking it very slowly. 

Rasp and file. New mantra. Even blunt - ground chisel has had a look in.


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## jimi43 (27 Jan 2014)

Richard T":g4tgldpo said:


> Dead Right Jim - I'm taking it very slowly.
> 
> Rasp and file. New mantra. Even blunt - ground chisel has had a look in.



Did you make a flat ended jobbie ala Bill Carter?

Great tool that!

Scrapers will hold you in good stead too...and maybe the odd Liogier rasp? :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## tobytools (27 Jan 2014)

Looks great Richard, I'm envious of your skill. Keep it up 
TT


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## rxh (27 Jan 2014)

I’m enjoying watching this one. Bold metalwork and bold woodwork =D> 

Will there be an adjusting mechanism too?


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## Richard T (28 Jan 2014)

Yes Jim, a cheap, narrow car boot Marples I think it is but I need something wider too - an excuse to buy chisels from car boot sales again as square ended scraper fodder. Hooray! 

Thanks Toby. You have great faith ....

Rxh, no adjuster. It has the bridge for a wedge. More fun with Yew.


I put it together this afternoon. Nearly forgot to do something that I have only just noticed on Bill's CD - to take some off the inside of the tenons





in case peining squishes them sideways into the mouth area.

Other things to do were to open the mouth a little and to clean up the ends of the sole that will protrude past the body at either end and will be difficult to do any major scratch removal with it together. Some work is inevitable but here's hoping for as little as poss. in those corners.





And of course, file the compounds.





I did it up on the big anvil. It's so much easier to pein than a smoother or a panel ... it's flat all over, so no need for anything other than the anvil. Here is my cross pein punch spreading from the middle to the edges and filling in the compound corners:









Made sure the corners were filled and did the sides up.





Then Dreadnought work taking the waste off





and switching to a cross cut file as I start to blend in with the side - drawing the file. Just the one stray hammer mark that did disappear eventually. 





More soon - the ugly part is nearly over.


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## jimi43 (28 Jan 2014)

I love the peining start with the rounded punch...must remember than one next time I do metal dovetails.

Coming on fine Richard!

Jimi


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## Mr_P (29 Jan 2014)

Great thread / work.

Mr thicko here but I thought the joy of a two piece sole was to make the mouth gap before you join them ?


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## Richard T (29 Jan 2014)

Mr. P(unch) - the mouth gap is made .... it's a bevel up mitre plane. Is that what you mean? (very narrow)


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## Mr_P (29 Jan 2014)

Blimey just had a look at a few antique soles on jimbodetools.com and they do indeed have very, very tight mouths. 

Bevel up + v.low angle iron = Extremely tight mouth.

Can you even get a match in that mouth ?

Thank you the penny has dropped.


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## AndyT (29 Jan 2014)

I'd just like to say that this all looks tremendous. Bill Carter should be proud of his pupil!

The 'offcut' of yew looked rather fine too.


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## Richard T (29 Jan 2014)

Thanks Andy - I'm sure Bill will find plenty wrong with it. He told me I'd cut the pins the wrong way round before I told him which side was which ... (hammer) . More on that off cut in a bit. 

I draw filed the sole today - trying to get it as flat as possible before starting to lap.
When there is a long way to go, I start to draw with a Dreadnought.





Why waste time with any other tool like a piddling little bench file or a milling machine? Only half - joking there but there is a downside to all draw filing. You can never remove as much stuff at the ends as you can in the middle. So anything short will always tend toward concavity; like oil/water stones always do with use. Fortunately the Dreadnought provides its own straight edge for checking.





To counter this I cross file the ends occasionally and then draw out the marks.





Back to that off cut and taming Yew in general - I had a go at planing the other edge:





I know it's mostly sap wood but it's still very hard and there is a knot at the end. It's all down to the choice of plane and the one I used did it perfectly .... even though it has no infill or wedge yet and I was just holding the iron in place with my fingertips...





I _like_ mitres. You couldn't do that with a half made BD. The definition of a mitre plane could be: "Thingy to hold your paring chisel properly"

Just for Mr. P - here is the blade at full extension. Too far out of course as to have it this far forward closes the gap. 



 

I'm loving making this. I just hope I can get the woodwork right.


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## Racers (29 Jan 2014)

Hi Richard

Have you tried the Dreadnaught on the Yew?

Its coming along very well.

Pete


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## Paul Chapman (29 Jan 2014)

Great work, Richard 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## jimi43 (30 Jan 2014)

Racers":2bz9vs0e said:


> Hi Richard
> 
> Have you tried the Dreadnaught on the Yew?
> 
> ...



Now that's a good idea Pete!!

Jimi


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## condeesteso (2 Feb 2014)

Looking very impressive indeed. I can't tell the scale of this plane (sorry if I missed some dimensions) but overall length and cutter width?
Also what is the bed angle, I notice bridge at +7 so I assume wedge will be 7 degrees - is the bed around 10-12?
The comment about paring chisel holder is probably more significant than first appears - I've previously found that under 25 degrees edge on those is quite risky (esp. on proper hard woods). Just interested in final target cutting angle? And I'm assuming this will be bevel-up, no cap iron?
Sorry, questions...
I think the yew is a great choice, and pleased to see you now mark your name on these planes. For a bit of heritage why not stamp the back of iron and top of bed with matching numbers (a bit Spiers-like) and maybe hide a date somewhere too (just an 02-14 say). Give the collectors more to worry about in decades to come - just make it as hard as possible for them :lol:
Regarding the sole dovetails, aren't they effectively compound dovetails anyway, once peined - i mean they flare in both directions and the peining fills it all out? 
Oh, and let us know the weight when it's all done please. That'll do for now :wink: 
Fine work indeed =D>


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## Richard T (2 Feb 2014)

Apologies for loss of service - computer has blown a gasket. This from phone.

Bed angle 20 degrees, iron width 2", NSWBRASAP.

Sent from my ST26i using Tapatalk


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## jimi43 (2 Feb 2014)

What's an ST26i Richard?

Is it an old Amiga PC!!! :mrgreen: 

Awaiting NORMAL SERVICE....(boy you had me going there for a bit!  )

If the PC not restored will it be FITS? :wink: 

Jim


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## Richard T (15 Feb 2014)

Well that was a bit of a nightmare ... two weeks computerless and no way to check the styles of other plane wedges. I've had to resort to reading books. Now we have a shiny new pooter and I am only just starting to work out how to find the photos that disappear from the camera and gurgle out of reach into unreachable chasms of Windows7.

Anyway, I'll try some update photos.





I made the wedge much too big just in case .... squinting at small photos in last year's David Stanley catalogue ... but it is now a better size since I have had the chance to look at Bill's work again.





The iron that is in it is just a slotted parallel upside down - I need to get some more tool steel and make a proper, long, snecked mitre iron.


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## jimi43 (15 Feb 2014)

Oh dear Richard! :shock: :shock: :shock: 

That is so GORGEOUS!!! Stunning indeed!

And I love that wedge shape...sets it off a treat!

There will be a sneck on the iron...(or did I miss that bit)....set it off a treat.

I found with the yew bowsaw that the boiled linseed oil trick so loved by Bill is also wonderful if repeated for a long time...sit in front of twenty episodes of Poirot and just wipe it on lovingly while admiring your masterpiece.

You have set the standard way up there with the best of the old boys my friend....

Stand up and take a bow...Richard T --- MASTER Planemaker

Can't do infills indeed!!! :roll: 

Bravo my dear friend...truly beautiful.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

Jimi


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## tobytools (15 Feb 2014)

Wow, I echo what jimi says. Truly beautiful work
TT


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## Mr_P (15 Feb 2014)

"Can't beat the real thing" especially when it's this well made.

Any good ? (2.25" so prob not) and in Oz.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Snecked-iron- ... 19e8ce5304


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## Richard T (15 Feb 2014)

Thanks for finding that iron out Mr. P but no, too wide and too far. There is a chap who sells 2"ers in Scotland ( I've lost all my old bookmarks so can't check) but it's easy enough to do myself for much less dosh. I think they were £50 a pop. 

I am going to do the submersion thing with raw Linseed when I can get to the shop to get enough to do it and maybe go to a Tupperware party for the relevant container. 

I'm working on a smaller one and really want to try a skew. Speaking of which, has anyone ever seen or heard of a mitre badger? I was thinking about the ultimate panel raiser and a constructive use of old slotted irons .. just rambling out loud ...


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## Mr_P (15 Feb 2014)

Speaking of Scotland

Modern

http://www.holteyplanes.com/blog/2009/1 ... tre-plane/

http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking/page1.htm

Blimey never heard of this talented artist before 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbkel ... 488917306/

1 antique

http://www.infill-planes.com/68/holland ... tre-plane/


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## Richard T (15 Feb 2014)

That's quick work Mr. P 

The one that Karl made is a 'sort of' copy of a Norris BU rebate that Konrad S also had a go at. 

But this one:

http://www.infill-planes.com/68/holland ... tre-plane/

is a true badger and so is the one made by Peter McBride. I spent a lot of time on that site of his a few years back and can't believe I didn't notice it. Maybe I was just too preoccupied with the making of a 'normal' infill.


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## jimi43 (16 Feb 2014)

The geometry of the skew is something in a different planet Richard!

That should be fun and I'm sure won't tax your brain but I am still holding off making a new wedge for my skew panel raiser...Philly described the complexity...PHILLY!!! And I am putting it off until my mind is in the right Universe!!

Glad to hear you are doing the soak treatment...that yew will come out stunning with the added contrast.

Loving everything about this work Richard...a masterpiece! =D> 

Can't really get over it!

Jimi


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## Richard T (18 Feb 2014)

Still struggling with Windows7 - the last pictures put up less of a fight than these...

Douglas I don't know what the final bevel angle will be. The iron I am using to test it is the one I got a couple of years ago that has a very shallow angle, north of 25 I should think. It works well but there is another thing to take into consideration with a fixed mouth mitre. The lower the bed angle _and_ the lower the bevel angle, the wider the mouth needs to be. Also the steeper both are and the mouth needs to be narrower if you want it tight. As it is it is a little on the tight side so I think I will try a 30 degree bevel on the iron I make. 

The width of the body is 2 - 1/2" and the length of the sole is 9 - 7/8". 

I drilled some holes in it .... for the rivets for the front infill.





held with a bit of 6mm bar to fix the position of the second hole.





Holes countersunk and with rivets in cut to length.





Heading rivets on anvil.





and draw filing ... again.






Cleaned up well - it doesn't look any different to before I started except it's a day older and so am I.





I am toying with the idea of cutting the wedge down to a slinkier shape.





And this is how it cuts. This is about as thick a shaving possible through such a fine mouth.





And "it's not about the shavings" ect. it leaves a nice finish too ... Ash with a knot in it. 





All the time I am working on this one Jim, I have skewness creeping into my thoughts ... quite distracting. :-k


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## MMUK (18 Feb 2014)

jimi43":24p139ti said:


> What's an ST26i Richard?
> 
> Is it an old Amiga PC!!! :mrgreen:




Sony Xperia J :wink:


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## Richard T (20 Feb 2014)

That's it - Emma's phone; a world I don't understand. 

I had just enough raw Linseed to immerse the front infill in a narrow jug. It was left in for 24 hours.









A bit of a contrast with the other two bits.


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## AndyT (20 Feb 2014)

Nearly there! This is looking very very nice indeed.


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## Mr_P (20 Feb 2014)

WOW What a difference a day makes
Twenty four little hours 
In a Tupperware container

Will have to try that on an old Stanley handle.


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## jimi43 (20 Feb 2014)

There ya go Richard!!!

WOW...even better than I thought it would be..the transformation in the heightening of the figuring of that beautiful yew is amazing!

Now...when that heel and wedge are matched...that is going to be one unique and beautiful plane indeed!

I am in deep admiration.

Wonderful

=D> =D> =D> =D> 

Jimi


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## Richard T (20 Feb 2014)

Thanks Jim. I think it's worth pointing out the difference between that off cut I oiled as soon as I had planed it and the infill that had been untouched for a couple of days before oiling. I was reading what Bill C said about Yew darkening after being cut, so I thought I would give it a go and it is definitely darker ... not by much but it does make a difference. Too slow to perceive while happening but obvious in the end result. Less orange. 

I suppose it must be down to air contact rather than sunlight .... air we've got; bit short on the other thing.


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## bugbear (20 Feb 2014)

Mr_P":rpwbmko8 said:


> Blimey never heard of this talented artist before
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinbkel ... 488917306/



Superb!



> During this period of buying every old tool that I could lay my hands on I learnt that in the past there had been an obscure tool for every manufacturing operation which I had previously had trouble with. I also learnt that there were fine tools which worked better.



Words to live by!

BugBear


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## Richard T (24 Feb 2014)

I reshaped the scroll, changed the angle and reduced the length a bit. Trimmed the sharp corners and it is now much more comfortable to use.













Then I gave it the oil soak treatment.













So it's finished apart from making a bespoke mitre iron for it and lapping.

On with the next one .... 1 _ 1/2" iron this time.


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## Racers (24 Feb 2014)

You seem to have the hang it now!

Pete


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## Paul Chapman (24 Feb 2014)

Very nice, Richard.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## jimi43 (24 Feb 2014)

Simply STUNNING!!!!

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> 

Jimi


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## MMUK (24 Feb 2014)

The linseed treatment certainly makes for a stunning finish 8) 8) 8)


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## tobytools (24 Feb 2014)

Wowza! Like jimi said stunning work Richard. All we need now is some brass and some black wood 
I hope you will be bringing this baby when you next visit the auctions.
TT


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## Richard T (24 Feb 2014)

Thanks folks. 

Will do Toby. 

I am going to order some tool steel and some bronze for the next ones but I want to get the smaller one bent round to make sure it is in the right proportion first, then I will have a better idea of what to order. He (Coventry Grinders) has standard stock that is cheaper than paying for extra cutting/grinding.


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## Mr_P (25 Feb 2014)

Very nicely done and many thanks for doing the wip.

Out of the millions of things that already been produced in 2014 your plane is in the tiny percentage that will still be desired, useful and valuable in a 100 years or more.


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## condeesteso (25 Feb 2014)

Splendid work - I particularly like the shape of the front infill, the form really complements the shape of body. Very nice indeed and it also reminds me how good yew looks.


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## Richard T (14 Mar 2014)

" it also reminds me how good yew looks."

Thanks Douglas. Yew looks good too.  


the 1 - 1/2" er is proportionally over all quite a bit smaller.









I made nice new mitre irons for both of them but I haven't hardened them yet.






I made a brass sneck for this one and ordered some brass rod for riveting but it hasn't tuned up yet so I might save it for the next one.





The next one is skewed.... I was concentrating so hard that it was only when I got to this point that I noticed I'd cut it the 'wrong' way; or at least the opposite way to that that I had intended.





Oh well ... they're rarer that way round. 
I think the wedge on this one is going to come out well ... hard to get a 'big' piece of Yew to come out all gorgeous like. 






Small is beautiful, although I don't fancy going saw back small ...


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## Cheshirechappie (14 Mar 2014)

Wow. 

I mean ..... just ..... WOW.

And now it's got a mate ....... double WOW.


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## Mr_P (14 Mar 2014)

No wonder you were dancing earlier, now take a bow while we applaud

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>


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## jimi43 (14 Mar 2014)

With the skew now being left handed you are probably searching for a left handed woodworker....

Well look no further...your search is over!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :wink: 

Seriously though mate...they are stunning! Now the sun has come out I am definitely getting out, clearing up the workshop a tad and finishing off the panel plane! It's taken a while indeed!

Cheers my friend


Jimi


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## Richard T (15 Mar 2014)

I thought you might say that Jim, in fact it was my first thought when I realised what I had done.  

Can't wait to see how your panel is coming along when you clamber down from the heavens - are you still using the pippy Oak? Is it still the same size?


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## Richard T (22 Mar 2014)

Skewed thinking. 

I thought my mind was wandering when I cut the skewed sole left handed but chose to soldier on with it. Cut out a piece for the sides, marked it and cut out the bridge.

I did all this before I realised that the sole was in 3mm. (homer) (homer) (homer) What the hell was I thinking when I cut it? Why didn't I notice it was too thin when I was actually making it? ... just shows the befuddling nature of skew mouthed planes. 





So I started on another sole - definitely 5mm this time and - sorry Jimi - right handed. 





I used the sides I had already cut out; ground the marks off and re marked it for right handed and I reused the bridge just by flipping it over. I had looked at Bill C's skews and was mighty relieved to see that he does straight bridges but in a fit of bravery, decided to attempt a shaped one. I reckoned it would be easy if I could incorporate parallel tenons and so far so good.









Time and motion study.





I really must remember to make the body before the sole next time. When I had bent it, it _just_ has enough sole at the back. A close thing. 





Looks like the most inept pin spacing ...









I have hardened the irons for the other two and the smaller one is ground, sharpened and brass - snecked. Still no bronze or brass for rivets yet though - turns out the guy I was dealing with nicked off on his hols for a fortnight ... though it looks like there is a possibility of me getting some 1/4" gunmetal ... we shall see ....


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## jimi43 (22 Mar 2014)

There is little doubt now Richard that you have secured your place as a planemaker of some repute so I would contact Jane now to clear a place in the Ts for BPM X so that a proud owner in 2125 can find out who this genius was!

Flubbin lubbly!!

Jim

=D> =D> =D>


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## rileytoolworks (22 Mar 2014)

Looking really good Richard. 
I'm amazed at the speed you put these things together.
Can't wait to see these in the flesh. 
Will you be going to Richard Arnold's open day?

All the best.
Adam.


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## Richard T (22 Mar 2014)

Thanks Jim, I don't know who or what that is but I'm sure you will fill me in. 

We plan to go to Richard's get together Adam and I will bring them if I haven't sold them...  there might be more by then though. 

I'm getting along quicker now because I'm less scared of it and we didn't have a winter this year. It's no fun with brass monkeys in the shed. 

I am very excited about opening up a piece of Lilac to fill this one. It is a big stump that I butted off for someone last summer that has split spectacularly but is so big (for Lilac) that finding bits in it for planes this size will be no probs but I have a new goal.

I was watching Bargain Hunt the other day and Tim W. was looking at something (tea caddy possibly) made from Mulberry. :shock: It looked like honey with jam and blueberries. Anyone every had any or used any? I will try Mike at Mac but I've never seen any there. Otherwise my only plan is to sneak into Newplace in Stratford in the small hours with a chainsaw ...


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## rileytoolworks (22 Mar 2014)

Sounds good Richard. 
You could try Nigel Fleckney at English Hardwoods too.
I don't think you'll have much trouble selling either of them. 
I bet there's more than me drooling over them!

Adam.


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## jimi43 (22 Mar 2014)

When is Richard Arnold's do? I'm sure Douglas and I will be wanting to make the pilgrimage!!!

BPM...British Plane Makers currently at Third Edition but soon to be Forth so I understand. THE bible for anyone into planes from the 1700s onwards.

Jane Rees compiles/edits it now.

Mulberry...isn't that used to make hollows and rounds....and rounds the....ok....weak joke...

Never heard of it being used for anything but sounds spectacular. Lilac is a dream wood...that piece i got from MAC that time we went...loved it.







I reckon that would be sublime in one of your mitres...






Take care mate...good on yer!!! 

Jimi


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## CHJ (23 Mar 2014)

jimi43":freyhx2o said:


> ........ Lilac is a dream wood...that piece i got from MAC that time we went...loved it.
> 
> .....


Good job I've bothered to put some into drying mode then following the loss of two reasonable sized trees to recent storms. We'll see in 2-3 yrs time if it's anything like that pretty and useable.


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## jimi43 (23 Mar 2014)

CHJ":k5b4wa41 said:


> jimi43":k5b4wa41 said:
> 
> 
> > ........ Lilac is a dream wood...that piece i got from MAC that time we went...loved it.
> ...



Apparently it does more splits than Olga Korbut but with a large piece you can pick and choose after a few years as you say.

The tiny bit I got from Mrs MAC was a little orphan she threw in free with some lovely huge burr oak I bought for RichardT's panel...yet to be finished so I had nothing to lose! Oh...and it was as dry as a post-Gobi camel's mouth!

Cheers

Jimi


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## Richard T (23 Mar 2014)

I'll try to get some photos of my lump of Lilac later and my attempts to tackle it.


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## marcros (23 Mar 2014)

Off topic, but interesting nonetheless I found this whilst googling mulberry timber. 

http://pegsandtails.wordpress.com/2009/ ... hmulberry/


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## CHJ (23 Mar 2014)

Some of the Lilac including the lump of gnarled root stock (complete with a sample of Cotswold stone) that should have some interesting figuring if I can get it dried. Most pieces I bothered to store had dark heartwood.






Trying to stack as much of this winters wood supplies as tight as possible to keep the moisture gradient low and reduce splitting. Mainly Yew but some Beech, Holly, Laburnum and a bit of Hazel . Bulk of split logs are 400-500mm long.

Sorry for hijacking such an excellent WIP project, but even us humble turners may have an oddment of interesting timber lying about at times if needed.


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## jimi43 (23 Mar 2014)

Stacked with the reverence of a good cheese or wine cellar!!

Lubbly!!!

Jimi


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## Mr_P (23 Mar 2014)

More Mulberry info here

http://www.craftwoods.co.uk/Reading/One_Mulberry_Tree/

Might be worth a phone call, if they do have a big lump I can collect next Saturday on my way to David Stanley.


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## CHJ (23 Mar 2014)

All I have left of what was supposed to be Mulberry Burl (Australian at least 20 yrs old) 
Not a lot of Burl in any of it and the rest of the piece was full of micro cracks. Quite dense and hard, not enough for infill I guess unless it's a small frame.
Just enough to clean up to a 90mm cube.


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## Richard T (23 Mar 2014)

Thanks Chas, I'm after a bit of 'English' Mulberry though  Nice looking wood collection - that Yew is really showing its pinkness. 

And thanks for the offer Carl. I will certainly give them a bell in the week and ask and let you know. Also I'll point out that James I arrived on the throne in 1604. They'll like that. :-" 

Here is my Lilac





Hand for scale





Serious crackage





And very interesting wibbly bits suggesting interesting grain - 





- and serious stress.

When I butted it off it had been dead for years but was of course still doing plenty of capillary business. Maybe it's too soon to go ahead and cut infills or close to size but I will certainly go ahead next week and cut it into slabs and see how they behave.


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## Mr_P (23 Mar 2014)

They will like that I'm sure but might be better if you say 1603 

Kind Regards,
Mr Pedantic


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## Richard T (23 Mar 2014)

(homer) 

He was keen wasn't he?


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## Mr_P (23 Mar 2014)

Bring back Father Dougal.

Cut to manageable chunks and nuke it ?

Never tried it and don't blame me if you kill Mrs T's microwave.


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## jimi43 (23 Mar 2014)

When you cut into that Richard, it would not surprise me if you release some serious stress build up.

Be ready for a few bangs!

Jimi


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## Richard T (11 Apr 2014)

I finally got around to setting about that lump of Lilac. I decided to let it go its own way so instead of ripping it on the bandsaw I just used handsaws ( cc then rip) to get through the crotch at the top and split the length of the rest with wedges through the existing crack and it is just as pretty as I had hoped.





Pink bits! ... Or Lilac bits I s'pose.





Usually this camera is not too good with showing true colours but this is spot on.





I also cleft a piece of Laburnum. I had given half of this bit to Bill C at the last Stanley auction, so this is half of my half. 





And this is the chainsaw cut made two weeks ago





It's darkened a bit but not much. I will keep one half in the sunlight (where poss.) and the other half out of the light to see if there is any difference in darkening speed.


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## jimi43 (11 Apr 2014)

Done like a true pro!

Nice piece of wood mate!

Cheers

Jimi


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## Richard T (12 Apr 2014)

Thanks Jim. The Lilac seems not quite dry, it's cool to the touch and very heavy still. I'll see what it does now it's split.

That other, other angle.





I put the sole on to the skewed plane and made an iron for it, and with the iron held down onto the mouth it demands this angle of support:





Don't be alarmed by the foreshortening, it's just a 3 - 1/6th iron. There must be a way of measuring this angle and applying it to the back infill and to the cutaway at the back of the plane but while I was pondering this, instead of ploughing ahead in the dark, a started another one, straight. And I cut the sole out of 1/4" tool steel. 









It's the first time I have made a bridge with the lower cut away and I did it ages before I saw Harry Jim, honest.  

Working with tool steel is hard work compared to mild steel but (hard to explain) it takes cuts so much better. straight lines stay straighter somehow and scribed lines get filed to more accurately. It feels like the first grown - up plane I have made. 

I have invested in 20 new hacksaw blades: the blades that I was soldiering on with in mild steel skated on tool steel. I've cracked out new files too. 

The brass and bronze order finally arrived the other day and the rivets in the first 1 - 1/2" cher went in yesterday and it is now involved in what looks like a Bluminthal lasagne.





It is due to come out later today. The rivets are in "riveting brass" , 4mm diameter and I bought a yard of it. In the same order I got some phosphor bronze plate, 6mm x 8" x 13". I should get six soles out of it. Here is the first one:





I cut it off just to see how the metal cuts. Having been used to wrestling with the tool steel, it was softer but tough; easy to go off line with too much saw pressure but behaves well if taken slow. 

I'll post pics of the lasagne as soon as it's cooked.


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## Bedrock (12 Apr 2014)

FWIW Lee Tools at Yapton, West Sussex, nr. Chichester, always has a selection of chunky pieces of brass and gunmetal, usually anything from 1/8" up to 2" in thickness. They don't stock standard lengths/thicknesses, so there's an element of pot luck. Always seem to have a wide selection of rounds, hexes and flats in both materials as well. I don't know how their pricing compares, but it is usually worth stopping for a look at their wide selection of 2nd. hand tools.
Fairly ramshackle buildings, but in the back there is an incredible selection of mostly woodworking tools, on display, not for sale. You can only press your nose against the window in amazement.


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## Richard T (14 Apr 2014)

Thanks Bedrock but for once, I actually have enough metal. Sounds like an interesting place though.

That plane, out of the oil and with its rivets in.





"riveting brass" certainly lives up to its name. A joy to do with no cracking,


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## jimi43 (14 Apr 2014)

STUNNING RICHARD!!!

I'll bring HARRY to Richard's do and we can compare notes.

After using him for a week...I am a little unsure about the length of your (Nick's) iron though! :mrgreen: 

Unless you have something up your sleeve (which you are likely to have with an iron that long...a sneck for example!!) :wink: 

Superb workmanship!

On the topic of the Emporium de Sussex....I feel that we ought to have a trip to the seaside during the summer with a visit to that place!

Worth considering? I know it's slightly south of Watford but I can bring some sunblock for you guys!! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Richard T (14 Apr 2014)

With a 2" iron sized plane there's not much choice other to use it with both hands - back hand on the scroll. The 1 - 1/2" iron brought the size of the whole of the plane down so much that there are 3 possibilities of holding it: One handed, two handed like the bigger plane and two handed with the back hands fingers on the scroll and the sneck in the palm. 

I've seen smaller planes with irons much proportionally longer but I bet it amounts to the same reason. As they get smaller still, I suppose the scroll becomes redundant as a gripping point and one hand reaches from the sneck to the front infill. 

I might find out if I ever get round to making a 1" iron plane. I have tried Bill's trick of cutting down an old Marples iron into two 1" irons ( and a bit left over.) 





It wouldn't be snecked so the scroll would have to be adjusted to suit. ... We'll see.


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## Bedrock (16 Apr 2014)

If you're contemplating a raiding party south of the river, it might be worth stopping off at GM Tools, at Ashington, just off the A24, about 12 miles north of Worthing, whilst you are in the area. Access is a little difficult to find as it's on an unmade road. The building is an old factory, filled with 2nd hand engineering kit, hand tools, both engineering and woodworking, blacksmithing,etc..
They have advertised from time to time in F&C, and I think have a website.


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## jimi43 (16 Apr 2014)

Bedrock":l7btntav said:


> If you're contemplating a raiding party south of the river, it might be worth stopping off at GM Tools, at Ashington, just off the A24, about 12 miles north of Worthing, whilst you are in the area. Access is a little difficult to find as it's on an unmade road. The building is an old factory, filled with 2nd hand engineering kit, hand tools, both engineering and woodworking, blacksmithing,etc..
> They have advertised from time to time in F&C, and I think have a website.



I have bought from GM Tools quite a few times...they have auctions on FleaBay.

Don't they have something to do with the aforementioned emporium?

Jimi


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## AndyT (16 Apr 2014)

Bedrock":1uogk06l said:


> If you're contemplating a raiding party south of the river, it might be worth stopping off at GM Tools, at Ashington, just off the A24, about 12 miles north of Worthing, whilst you are in the area. Access is a little difficult to find as it's on an unmade road. The building is an old factory, filled with 2nd hand engineering kit, hand tools, both engineering and woodworking, blacksmithing,etc..
> They have advertised from time to time in F&C, and I think have a website.



This link may help: http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/aboutus2.html

It has more pictures like these!


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## Racers (16 Apr 2014)

How do you de-drool a keyboard?

Pete


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## Bedrock (16 Apr 2014)

It's a lot brighter in the pictures. If you go in winter, wear your long johns - it's as cold as charity in there.
I didn't get the impression there is any connection between them and Yapton. I did mention one to the other when I was in last year, and did not get the impression that "they were on the same page."
Have I misunderstood your reference? If you meant beteween Ashington and the on line auction, then I don't know.

Mike


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