# Spray finishing MDF edges - How I do it



## Richard Findley (27 Mar 2009)

Hi all,

Let me start by explaining that I am relatively new to spraying and have learned through a combination of trial and error and hints and tips picked up from people in the know and of course the forum!!!

Here's what I do (and the products I use)

Cut MDF to size and run a hand plane over to remove machine marks. Rout mould (or in this case chamfer):







Hand sand with 240grit - Carefully!!






A coat of Morrells White Primer 8005/641 (Waterbourne)






This appears quite rough still but a light hand sand with 400grit removes all fluffy bits and leaves a smooth finish:






2 coats of Morrells 362 "Severe Use" Waterbourne Lacquer gloss white. I've found that there is no need to rub down in-between coats. In this case I also finished with a coat of clear 90% gloss as there was another detail on the surface that needed a coat to even the gloss all over:






I hope you have enjoyed reading this and that it is of some help to someone out there. 

Cheers,

Richard


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## JonnyD (28 Mar 2009)

Hi Richard looks like you have got a good finish there pretty much how i do it. 

I was just wondering how you got on with the morrells waterbased top coat. I usually use morrells Acid Cat lacquers but have been meaning to give the waterbased stuff a go and do my bit for the environment. I have tried the waterbased primer and was impressed by that.

Jon


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## Richard Findley (28 Mar 2009)

Hi Jon,

I've been very impressed by the waterbourne finishes. I don't have a spray booth so fumes are a bit of an issue for me. These finishes are touch dry in 1 hour and recoatable after 2 which is really the only down side compared to chemical finishes. They reckon that these waterbourne lacquers are pretty much as hard wearing as the chemical ones. The clean up is a lot easier with waterbourne. Just run under the tap and spray water through!! I love 'em!!

Cheers,

Richard


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## Paul Chapman (28 Mar 2009)

Looks good, Richard. What sort of MDF was that - ordinary or MR?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## JonnyD (28 Mar 2009)

Cheers Richard

I will give the waterbased a try. I am making myself some wardrobe doors so I will try it out on these before using it on any paid work. 

Jon


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## cornucopia (28 Mar 2009)

looks like you have achieved an excellent finish richard-well done


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## BradNaylor (28 Mar 2009)

That looks like bog standard fluffy MDF, Richard.

You will find that the edges of MR MDF finish a lot more easily. Well worth the small extra cost.

I too use Morrells AC finishes. I might give the waterbourne ones another try.

Cheers
Dan


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## Richard Findley (30 Mar 2009)

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments. Yes, this is bog standard MDF. I've heard a number of times on here that MR MDF is far better so I may well try it next time.

Cheers,

Richard


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## imaginarynumber (24 May 2009)

Hi Richard-

Re the waterbourne- are you using a compressor or turbine??? Do you get grain swell with the water based primers?

I too have only ever used the acid cat

Cheers


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## Richard Findley (25 May 2009)

Hi imaginarynumber,

I used to use a little Apollo "Spray master" HVLP system which was ok but when I started having troubles with the gun I bit the bullet and bought a compressor and proper spray gun.

I now wonder how I ever managed without my compressor and the finish with this gun is much improvroved as the gun is so adjustable you can tweek it to suit your needs.

The waterbourn is a great finish and it doesn't seem to raise the grain significantly. I had some slatwal panels made for me a while ago and they used some cheapo rubbish MDF which I have struggled to get the sort of finish I would like on but as you can see from the pictures adove, normal (good quality) MDF finishes well, as does timber.

HTH

Richard


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## imaginarynumber (25 May 2009)

Thanks Richard

Not sure that I have enough space for a decent compressor so i guess that I will have to stick with my Fuji HVLP.

I generally stick with acid cat as the gun is happy with it. 

Although you say that the grain raising isn't too bad should I take that too mean that it is noticably more than acid cat primer???

When hand painting with acrylic primer I expect to spend as long sanding as I did applying the paint; generally back to the point where you see the parallel machining lines.

In your case are you sanding to denib or to flatten raise bits of grain.

Cheers


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## yo_chuci (25 May 2009)

what type of spray gun did you buy and from where...

is it hvlp?


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## Richard Findley (26 May 2009)

imaginarynumber":3pnu8t3n said:


> Although you say that the grain raising isn't too bad should I take that too mean that it is noticably more than acid cat primer???



Hi imaginarynumber,

What I said was: "The waterbourn is a great finish and it doesn't seem to raise the grain significantly"

I've not had any grain raising problems with it (appart from this crappy slatwall MDF) but I must admit to not having that much experience with Acid Cat finishes.

Hi yo_chuci,

My gun is a De-Vilbiss Signature gravity fed HVLP gun from Morrells. It cost me about £275, so not cheap but it's a fantastic bit of kit!! There are MUCH cheaper guns out there for the occaisional user. I've seen them from about £35 from places like Axminster.

As far as I understand it, there's nothing really wrong with the cheaper guns but they are pretty much "disposable" so you bin them if you have any trouble with them/if parts start to wear etc and buy a new one. With the dearer guns like mine, all of the parts are replaceable and servicable so (hopefully) will have a longer life span!!

Richard


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## white_sw (28 May 2009)

From you pictures, it looks like to have a fantactic finish there. I've heard lot's of good stuff about these Morrells finishing products.
Does anyone know where I can buy some in Bristol ? I wouldn't be using large amounts as it just for hobby use. I have my own
spray setup, however, have only sprayed cellulose paints on car's before.

Cheers,
Sam


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## dellpitch (21 Jun 2009)

Hi
Morrells have a Bristol depot, it is at Avonmouth, on the road to
Severn Beach, Tel 0845 4509070.

hope this helps


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## lemonjeff (11 Jul 2010)

Richard,
I resurrected your thread to find out how are you getting on with the morrells waterbourne paints one year on?
Is the 362 lacquer durable and as hard wearing as they claim?

Cheers,

Jeff


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## Richard Findley (12 Jul 2010)

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your interest.

I am still using the 362 lacquer now so that probably answers your question!! 

The claim is that it is as hardwearing as an AC lacquer and I certainly haven't had any problems with it. I use the black gloss more than anything else as one of my biggest customers speciallises in Gothic stuff and I make a range of Walking Canes and display boards among other things for them. 

The Walking Canes are turned from Steamed Beech and I find that I simply use 3 coats, no rubbing down in between, and the finish is excellent. Further coats will increase the gloss. As you can imagine, the canes get well handled and I have not yet (touch wood!!) had a complaint about the quality of the finish.

The display boards are onto MDF so they get sanded with 240g and primed with the White primer. This is then sanded with 400g and 2 coats of the 362 applied. Again, an excellent finish which I have had no complints about it.

I hope this answers your question.

Cheers

Richard


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## lemonjeff (16 Jul 2010)

Richard,
Thanks for the update and info


> coats of Morrells 362 "Severe Use" Waterbourne Lacquer gloss white


You also mention gloss black, I can't find any pigmented lacquers in their 362 range? Or are you using their 9 series Waterbased lacquers?

Cheers,

Jeff.


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## Richard Findley (16 Jul 2010)

Hi Jeff,

The 362 is available as clear, black or white (although I looked at their website and you are right, they don't show it!!) but they deffinately do cos I've got all 3!!! The Black and white only go upto 70% gloss though.

The 9 series are good for colourmatching and it goes on lovely but it is a bit easy to scratch so probably best to go over it with a coat of the 362 to add a bit of protection. I guess it depends on what you're using it for.

HTH

Richard


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## lemonjeff (20 Jul 2010)

Hi Richard,
I got in touch with Morells and your right they do the 362 pigmented, they will also colour match it as well.
I've just finished building a spray booth, I'll let you know how I get on with their paint.

Thanks for all your help  

Jeff.


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## Richard Findley (20 Jul 2010)

Hi Jeff,

They colour match in the 362!!!???? D'oh!! If I'd realised that I wouldn't have just bought another 5lt of the 9 series colourmatched!!!! Ah well, once I've used this can up (lasts about a year on this particular job unfortunatley) I will get it in the 362. Worth knowing for the future though!!

Glad I could be of assistance.

Cheers

Richard


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## Solidmind (11 Aug 2010)

Hi all!

Fantastic work! I found this thread on how to get mirror result on MDF. Could perhaps be of interest too some...

http://shoryuken.com/f177/how-paint-mdf ... og-191692/

Take care


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## lemonjeff (13 Aug 2010)

Hi Richard,
I've started using the 362 top coats, your right it's a tough coating.
I'm using a HVLP turbine setup did you try this paint using your Apollo? If so what were the problem(s) you had with the gun?
Also do you thin the 362?

Cheers,

Jeff.


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## Richard Findley (14 Aug 2010)

Hi Jeff,

I originally started spraying with my old Apollo but it packed up about the same time as I started using the 362. My Apollo was the cheapo entry level thing and the gun started not spraying properly, I think some of the washers/other bits and bobs inside were wearing but they don't do spares and they discontinued that particular set up hence why I moved on. That said, it more than paid for itself and gave me a good introduction to the world of spraying!

I do thin the 362 a little although it is supplied "ready for use" (RFU). I find that, because of the daft tins that it comes in, it's best (for me anyway) to decant it into smaller containers that pour easier. In my case I use 1lt Robinson squash bottles (I drink a lot of squash so I have a steady supply of these!) I give the can a really good shake to mix it and then put about an inch of clean water in the bottom of each bottle and then with a funnel I pour it out. This much water gives me about another 1/2 litre of paint and doing some sums in my head I reckon that means it's thinned to about 10% which is the recommended maximum amount. 

I think a lot of it depends on what it is you are spraying but I find this works for me.

HTH

Richard


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## Maverick UK (15 Jan 2012)

Resurrected once before, and hoping to do it again, but it is the best article on spraying MDF I’ve found on the web (and the best finish). I’m looking to spray MDF and having read around and got a lot from this post, I was hoping for a bit of further guidance on getting the same finish achieved by Richard. Sorry for such a direct list of questions but all the kit seems to add up and I’m trying to ensure I don’t spend money on the wrong things.

*1.)* I see Morrells White Primer 8005/641 (Waterbourne) was suggested, but wondered if there would be a reason for this to be better than the 8004/400 Basecoat?

*2.) *Also, when using the Morrells 362 Severe Use Waterbourne Lacquer, will any of the sheen rates work the same, or is there a sheen rate you suggest (Ideally I’m after a mid sheen, but finish quality is most important)?

*3.) *Would it be suggested to always use the clear 90% after, or will the 2nd coat of the 362 lacquer be enough (and still tough)?

*4.)* I’ve got a friend who has two new Devilbiss GTi Pro guns to sell and was wondering if anyone could advise which would be better. One is a Devilbiss GTi Pro H1B-12 (which I think is HVLP) and the other a Devilbiss GTi Pro T1B-13 (which I think is their Trans Tech). Assuming one would be right, any idea which would be best?

*5.) *Finally, any guidance on a compressor/turbine for the spray gun? I’m not sure the difference. I saw spraygunsdirect have a compressor for about £200.

*Thanks in advance for any time. * I can always post some pics on the forum after.


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## Dibs-h (16 Jan 2012)

Traditional paint guns have a published requirement for air - usually expressed in CFM (Cubic Feet per minute). You need to look this up on Devilbiss's website. They do make craking paint guns, as do Iwata.

Then ensure that the compressor you buy has at least the output to match the gun. You are going to need to ensure you don't mixup the compressors "air displacement" with what it actually delivers, which IIRC is called FAD (free air delivery), which is noticeably less.

For a traditional paint gun, albeit HVLP - you'll need a compressor with some grunt, especially if you want to paint reasonable sized areas.

Turbines - have a crappy Earlex (starter one from years ago), a Apollo 700\800 (can't remember which) and a Fuji Q4 or something. The Fuji - I haven't used yet. But the Earlex requires the paint thinned down a lot more than the Apollo and pushed out less, therefore takes longer. So the more the grunt of the turbine, the less the thinning required and also the higher the workrate.

The Fuji, I expect will put the the Apollo into the shade - but it's a damn sight more in cost and when you throw in the cost of 3M's PPS stuff - it doesn't get cheaper.

A lot of folk here use the Earlex 5000 or something which is reviewed on Wood Whisperer's (or something) web site - and I haven't heard anyone complain about the Earlex 5000.

HIH

Dibs


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## mailee (16 Jan 2012)

Dibbs is correct about the standard air guns they do need a lot of air especially the De Vilbis guns in HVLP. I think you will be looking at around 7 - 10 CFM for the gun! For this you will need a large compressor and a large tank. Then you will probably find you have to increase the diameter of the air hose to 3/8" to handle the extra volume of air. I use a large compressor with an output of 13CFM and run a cheap HVLP gun (Bergen) and it handles it fine without any thinning but it does mean the compressor cuts in more often. I have recently tried one of the turbine sprayers (Apollo) but found it slow for large panels. Not to mention the need to thin the paint. If slow application speed and thinner paint is no problem to you then I would go turbine. If you want to spray larger items then I would think about bigger is better. Of course if you don't need HVLP then you can go for a smaller setup with a standard air fed gun. HTH. :wink:


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## Mcluma (16 Jan 2012)

Alan,

Your hvlp sprayer, what nozzle does it got, 0.8?


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## mailee (17 Jan 2012)

No Chris it's a 1.8. I know this is a little on the large side but gives me a fast application.


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## Dibs-h (18 Jan 2012)

mailee":5rmejioy said:


> Not to mention the need to thin the paint. If slow application speed and thinner paint is no problem to you then I would go turbine. If you want to spray larger items then I would think about bigger is better. Of course if you don't need HVLP
> then you can go for a smaller setup with a standard air fed gun. HTH. :wink:



I would have thought even with a traditional air fed gun (HVLP), you would still need to thin the paint? With a traditional gun (non HVLP) it might seem that the gun is putting out a lot of material, but not all of it is going where required.

With a pro level turbine - I don't believe speed is an issue. Something to bear in mind is that for a compressor able to put out enough CFM for an air fed HVLP gun, you might find yourself in 3 phase territory.

The Apollo I have is more than able deal with the job, I've used it for - the large workshop door I made last year (or whenever  ) I painted that and it never felt slow and the finish was spanking. The paint by the way was Sikkens Rubbol (solvent based) 

http://sikkens.trade-decorating.co.uk/p ... a_plus.jsp

and the door, well you can see for yourself,







The windows I made for the workshop - these were sprayed in Sikkens WB and again no issues. 

In both cases the amount of thinning was more or less as per the datasheet from Sikkens. So even if one used a traditional air fed gun (HVLP or non HVLP) the paint would still need to be thinned.

Dibs


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## mailee (18 Jan 2012)

No Dibbs, the only thinner I use is to clean out my gun. I have never thinned Morrells paint using my HVLP gun.


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## Dibs-h (18 Jan 2012)

mailee":264zv30f said:


> No Dibbs, the only thinner I use is to clean out my gun. I have never thinned Morrells paint using my HVLP gun.



My experience with spraying prior to this has been with automotive WB and 2K, both of which have been thinned prior to spraying with traditional air fed guns, both HVLP and non-HVLP.

I've got a chest of drawers to make for my son's bedroom in painted MDF so will be using Morrell's. It will be interesting how the Fuji copes with that. Might make a note of trying out the Apollo HVLP as well and see how that fairs too.

Will post up, on how I get on.

Thanks

Dibs


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## mailee (20 Jan 2012)

Yes Dibbs I agree we used to thin the automotive paint at work too but the Morrells stuff seems to work well without. It does need a larger needle but I have had no problems so far. I did have to thin it a little with a conventional LVHP gun though. I will be interested on how you get on with the Turbine guns with it. :wink:


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## Maverick UK (29 Jan 2012)

Hi all, thanks for the responses following my resurection of the post. I've had a look in to the earlex and am tempted to try one. Thought I might try and see where I can get with the Devilbiss GTI Pro if I can. If anyone has any thoughts on my original questions on the Devilbiss models, that would be great.


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## LyNx (16 Feb 2012)

how much are the GTI pro's?? I' ve been advised not really suitable for wood finishes.


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## the_g_ster (16 Feb 2012)

It's great this post has been going so long.

Some good advice though, you gotta love this forum.


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## doctor Bob (16 Feb 2012)

Just my twopence .... I'd be very wary about spraying a clear coat over a white unless the product is "non yellowing".
If it isn't your white will have a yellow tinge in about 6 weeks.


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## Lark (23 Feb 2012)

no good onlines sellers?... no place near me...

i been trying to finish mdf to black and dont have to be ultra glossy but would be nice.....
i keep having to take all the paint off and start again (3 or 4th time now) im starting to go crazy lol.... i have one the Earlex Spray......
had to make 2 more back parts of mdf today...


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## mailee (24 Feb 2012)

Lark, do you mean no online suppliers of Morrells paint? If so here is one:
http://www.jpennyltd.co.uk/shopping/sta ... se=1&cat=2
If not sorry I misunderstood.


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## Lark (29 Feb 2012)

thanks i used the web site in the links with 10% off .. as i could get 1L water bassed as 5l bit much for trial and not often ill use it

i was wondering what u recommend i also have an earlex 5000 i have 2.0 needle.. so ordered 1.5 and got the 1 by mistake but get to keep it as well  
my question would be

waterbased primer guess 2.0 needle?
waterbased black gloss varnish/lacquer 2.0/1.5?
waterbased clear gloss 1.5 or would 1.0 be better

any tips welcome may try cellous one in the future but 5L £40 a tin or more bit much for hobbyist


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