# Tall plank dovetail



## SMALMALEKI (12 Jul 2019)

Hi 
I am sorry if the question is so basic but I am struggling to find a way. 
What is the traditional join for wardrobe top and bottom corners? I was planning to dovetail them but can’t find the right way of cutting dovetails on long planks. 
Does anybody has a blueprint for a single or double door wardrobe? 

Thank you in advance


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## thetyreman (12 Jul 2019)

From what I've seen the top corners are dovetailed and the bottom is either raised on a plynth +dovetailed or the bottom is a dado joint raised say 3-4 inches the gap then being filled in by a mortise and tenon rail, here's a link to a photo I found of a shaker style wardrobe: 

https://eu-browse.startpage.com/do/show ... &t=default


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## AndyT (12 Jul 2019)

Yes, dovetails. Lap if it's a plain exposed top. Can be through dovetails if there's a big moulding round the top. Or housings if the sides extend above the top board, concealed by the cornice moulding.

Look on the Internet Archive or in the Sticky reference books post for books by Paul Hasluck.

Perhaps a subsidiary question should be why none of the YouTube woodworkers ever show how to make dovetails in anything except titchy little offcuts!


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## SMALMALEKI (12 Jul 2019)

All the dovetails I have ever cut have been on boards up to 100 cm. it’s not practically possible to keep the boards vertically for sawing.


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## Trainee neophyte (13 Jul 2019)

I'm thinking either a stepladder or scaffolding. Or a harness and hang from the ceiling with the work horizontal?

(I'm not helping much, am I, dad...)


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## sunnybob (13 Jul 2019)

Not having cut a dovetail joint since 1962 (I swapped school woodwork for metalwork :roll: ) I'm hardly an expert but is it not possible to cut the pieces with the plank sideways across the bench? or even flat with the edge hanging over? :shock: :lol:


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## Ttrees (13 Jul 2019)

A good excuse to get a bandsaw (hammer)


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## SMALMALEKI (13 Jul 2019)

sunnybob":1paatjpn said:


> Not having cut a dovetail joint since 1962 (I swapped school woodwork for metalwork :roll: ) I'm hardly an expert but is it not possible to cut the pieces with the plank sideways across the bench? or even flat with the edge hanging over? :shock: :lol:




Hi Sunnybob
It is all about the stand. In hand saw cutting one is trying to keep hand and saw in a particular position to avoid saw drifting. Those positions will be very challenging to cut straight. 
Well at least for me.


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## AndyT (13 Jul 2019)

I've made a few bookcases on this sort of scale, with dovetails at the top corners. The first one was back in the 80s, long before forums and YouTube so I had to work it out for myself.
If I remember right, the joints were cut laid flat on the bench or on a Workmate plus a support for the far end. Sit or kneel on the board and saw down. Chiselling out the laps was ok at the end of the bench. (Lap dovetails at the top of a tall piece really are for construction, not for show. Any gaps will soon fill up with dust!)
For transferring the marks, I think I arranged the boards on edge on a flat floor, temporarily clamped to a square box or block.
It all depends on the size and weight of the boards, the size of your bench and how agile you are!


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## SMALMALEKI (13 Jul 2019)

Ttrees":12k3y20b said:


> A good excuse to get a bandsaw (hammer)



Hi Ttrees
Or even a dovetail cutting jig. The problem is that I have no power plug in my workshop 8) :twisted:


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## SMALMALEKI (13 Jul 2019)

AndyT":3kp9y0hh said:


> I've made a few bookcases on this sort of scale, with dovetails at the top corners. The first one was back in the 80s, long before forums and YouTube so I had to work it out for myself.
> If I remember right, the joints were cut laid flat on the bench or on a Workmate plus a support for the far end. Sit or kneel on the board and saw down. Chiselling out the laps was ok at the end of the bench. (Lap dovetails at the top of a tall piece really are for construction, not for show. Any gaps will soon fill up with dust!)
> For transferring the marks, I think I arranged the boards on edge on a flat floor, temporarily clamped to a square box or block.
> It all depends on the size and weight of the boards, the size of your bench and how agile you are!



That’s what I was thinking as well. I gotta give it a go. Clamping the boards do bench top and sitting on it.


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## MikeG. (13 Jul 2019)

This is why you have saw horses.


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## Ttrees (13 Jul 2019)

SMALMALEKI":vdid15gv said:


> Ttrees":vdid15gv said:
> 
> 
> > A good excuse to get a bandsaw (hammer)
> ...


Very romantic, going all out Chippendale there!


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## thetyreman (13 Jul 2019)

MikeG.":1qwulr45 said:


> This is why you have saw horses.



+1 that's how I'd do it, was going to say the same thing.


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## thetyreman (13 Jul 2019)

how wide will the wardrobe sides tops and bottom be? what are the planned dimensions of the piece?


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## SMALMALEKI (13 Jul 2019)

thetyreman":2191c83y said:


> how wide will the wardrobe sides tops and bottom be? what are the planned dimensions of the piece?



I don’t have a plan but what I have drafted is just short of 200 cm tall and 45 cm deep. Has three main compartment of 58 cm. 

Any suggestions on tried and tested plans is welcome


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## Racers (13 Jul 2019)

I have done some in the past on a CD rack, workmate clamped to the bench and dovetail jig clamped to the workmate.

These days I would cut them the same way but with a saw, Japanese one with the plank flat on the bench, crouch and saw.

Pete


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## MikeG. (14 Jul 2019)

Racers":1nkyi90l said:


> ......These days I would cut them the same way but with a saw, Japanese one with the plank flat on the bench, crouch and saw........



Kneeling under the work, rather than kneeling over it on saw horses. I don't get it.


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## MikeG. (14 Jul 2019)

SMALMALEKI":33xtxwod said:


> ......I don’t have a plan but what I have drafted is just short of 200 cm tall and 45 cm deep. Has three main compartment of 58 cm. ........


A couple of things. Firstly, 450 deep (minus the depth of the back panel, presumably), isn't deep enough for a coat hanger with shirts or jackets etc. I make wardrobes 700 deep (650 min.). Secondly, I'd be making the sides out of a paneled construction, rather than solid boards. Just make sure you have a cross-member to suit shelves and hanging rails etc.


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## RogerS (14 Jul 2019)

I cheat !


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## SMALMALEKI (14 Jul 2019)

MikeG.":25fzze6u said:


> SMALMALEKI":25fzze6u said:
> 
> 
> > ......I don’t have a plan but what I have drafted is just short of 200 cm tall and 45 cm deep. Has three main compartment of 58 cm. ........
> ...




Hi Mike 

Thank you for your advice. The reason I went 450 was because of the room this is going to put in. 700 mm could possibly be slightly too big for the room. To make room for hangers I was planing to get the rail front to back rather than side to side and fix it to the top of wardrobe with hanging hooks.

Do you mean I use the second design for the sides rather than the one in the first photo? 


Another question which I have to ask is where do you get the plans for tried and tested furnitures? 

Best regards


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## SMALMALEKI (14 Jul 2019)

RogerS":3hk55n65 said:


> I cheat !




Hi Roger 

That’s a beautiful jig for dovetail cutting. I am afraid I don’t have the skill to make the jig or the facilities to store and use them.


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## RogerS (14 Jul 2019)

Thank you but it's not that difficult if you have a decent mitre saw.


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## Racers (14 Jul 2019)

MikeG.":3qegakic said:


> Racers":3qegakic said:
> 
> 
> > ......These days I would cut them the same way but with a saw, Japanese one with the plank flat on the bench, crouch and saw........
> ...



Didn't make sense did it, seemed to when I wrote it  
I think I ment Japanese saw crouching down plank on bench. 

Pete


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## MikeG. (14 Jul 2019)

That's what I thought you meant Pete, and the response applies.........Why would you crouch down or kneel to get low enough to be able to saw something above you, when you could just chuck it on saw horses and kneel on top of it in comfort?


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## Racers (16 Jul 2019)

MikeG.":3ex4ibb1 said:


> That's what I thought you meant Pete, and the response applies.........Why would you crouch down or kneel to get low enough to be able to saw something above you, when you could just chuck it on saw horses and kneel on top of it in comfort?



I guess you could either, I would prefer crouching it seems easer to work with gravity rather than against it.
Your head would be level with the edge of the work crouching.

Pete


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## MikeG. (16 Jul 2019)

Racers":2a8wfabp said:


> ......it seems easer to work with gravity rather than against it.........



Blimey, how heavy is your saw, Pete? 

Actually, kneeling above_* is*_ working with gravity, if you are using a western saw.


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## Racers (16 Jul 2019)

MikeG.":2myc4n3p said:


> Racers":2myc4n3p said:
> 
> 
> > ......it seems easer to work with gravity rather than against it.........
> ...



It doesn't float away :wink: 

Pete


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## Jacob (16 Jul 2019)

Yer basic box for a chest of drawers or wardrobe is most often DTd top and bottom with blind DTs (sockets on the vertical boards out of sight) or through DTs if there will be a plinth, moulding whatever covering the tail ends.
Lots of variations of course.
A typical chest of drawers will have 100 to 200 DTs which makes all the fussy modern ways of doing it utterly non viable. 
They HAD to be done fast n furious, freehand, minimal marking out, over-cutting as far as the quality would allow, etc. But luckily this means minimal tools - an ordinary cutting marking gauge (essential) a DT saw or tenon saw, a few chisels, a marking awl (usually home made bodge) er thats about it!


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## Racers (16 Jul 2019)

Jacob":3498lry0 said:


> Yer basic box for a chest of drawers or wardrobe is most often DTd top and bottom with blind DTs (sockets on the vertical boards out of sight) or through DTs if there will be a plinth, moulding whatever covering the tail ends.
> Lots of variations of course.
> A typical chest of drawers will have 100 to 200 DTs which makes all the fussy modern ways of doing it utterly non viable.
> They HAD to be done fast n furious, freehand, minimal marking out, over-cutting as far as the quality would allow, etc. But luckily this means minimal tools - an ordinary cutting marking gauge (essential) a DT saw or tenon saw, a few chisels, a marking awl (usually home made bodge) er thats about it!




No harm in striving for perfection.

Pete


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## Benchwayze (8 Aug 2019)

Whenever I have had to dovetail tall planks I place the board horizontally in the vice from the right-hand edge of the vice and at a slope. Then it's just a case of working from the side of the jaws, cutting the tails and keeping an eye on the marked lines so you make a neat job. It's a fiddle, and entails turning the board over to see both sides, but it works. Better than standing on a tall stool to cut the upright plank! :mrgreen: 

As if I would! 

John (hammer)


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (8 Aug 2019)

This may be the longest side I have dovetailed ...






I think that I must have stood on a bench to dovetail this in the upright position 






Transferring dovetails ...
















Several years later I needed to dovetail the end cap for a bench ...






This time I laid the board horizontally ...











Transferring the dovetails was a balancing act!






At 6'6" it was a bit too tall for my workshop ...











Regards from Perth

Derek


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## Benchwayze (8 Aug 2019)

SMALMALEKI":37xejfw5 said:


> Ttrees":37xejfw5 said:
> 
> 
> > A good excuse to get a bandsaw (hammer)
> ...



Good reason to cut them in the living room, with a good vacuum cleaner to hand! 

Cheers

John :mrgreen:


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## Benchwayze (8 Aug 2019)

Derek.

That's about as tall as I would want to go at my time of life! Couldn't slant that in the vice unless I hot-melted a temporary batten to the work piece, to fit it in the vice. Probably I would lay it flat on the bench though and hold-fast it down. Easy enough to turn it over to get at the other side. 

Just thought of a use for some Parana Pine I have! 

Cheers

John (hammer)


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## SMALMALEKI (9 Aug 2019)

Derek Cohen (Perth said:


> This may be the longest side I have dovetailed ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That’s amazing job. In last few weeks I have been searching nonstop to see a nice dovetail wardrobe. Even the old ones in the Antique shop did not have dovetail joining. 

You wouldn’t have the drawing for the wardrobe by any chance? 

Regards


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (10 Aug 2019)

No drawings, per se, I’m afraid. However - possibly better? - this was my among the first of the step-by-step builds I did on the forums 10 years ago, and it documented in a series of pictorials on my website. 

It is termed the “Armoire Project” and “will be about 51” tall and 36” wide”. It is a smaller wardrobe as it needed to fit into a smallish spare bedroom. You could scale it up from this if you wish.






Link: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/index.html

Regards from Perth

Derek


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