# Shooting Board



## PerranOak

How do shooting boards work?

I've started making one but wonder if they work very well for squaring-up end grain?

I get that you extend the board a little into the path of the plane but when the board is flush doesn't the plane cut the shooting board itself?


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## Digit

It cuts it to the depth of the exposed part of the iron, then the plane body rubbing against the the guide part of the runway prevents any further cutting.
Hope that explains it.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

... err, "guide part"?


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## Digit

The plane is on its side on the runway and is stopped from moving to the left by a raised section that the timber to be shot is resting on. This edge has the plane sole rubbing against it. The exposed part of the iron now can only remove a small amount of the guide face and can then remove no more.

Roy.


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## Rob_H

I was going to buy one but I guess they're easy to make - aren't they?


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## Paul Chapman

Excellent piece here from Alf on shooting boards http://www.cornishworkshop.co.uk/rocketscience.html

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Digit

Not necessarily that easy Rob, getting the stop at right angles to the runway can be a problem
The way I do it is to drill for screws but glue the stop into place first using an accurate square to locate it in place before clamping.
When the glue is dry then I screw it all together.
In addition I fit a replaceable end on the cutting face of the stop.

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

Here's another way. Rout a slot for the stop, which is made wedge-shaped












If the end of the stop gets damaged, just knock it out, plane a shaving off the sloping side, knock it back in and trim up.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Digit

I tried that method Paul but found that the wedge on occasion would move.

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

Digit":32r8eyb4 said:


> I tried that method Paul but found that the wedge on occasion would move.



Mine doesn't - but if it does, you can still put a screw in from the bottom.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Digit

S**t! Never thought of that, damn it!

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

:lol:


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## PerranOak

Well, I've made it! (The shooting board, that is!)

Two things:

1. Do I finish it with, say, danish oil? It made of ply, softwood cleat and stop with a hardwood facing. If so, do I danish oil ALL faces and edges including the runway and fence bits?

2. My square is out! No, honest. I squared the fence with my big try-square, all ok. The first piece I shot I tested with a different square - it's out. Long story short, one of the squares is out (I put them together). So, I need a new square but which one? Also, what do I do now that my shooting board is out - although it's only slight.


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## Digit

You can test the squares quite simply. 
Place the square on a board with a good edge and draw a line with a sharp pencil, next roll the square over so that if the stock had been to the left it is now to the right.
A 'Square' square will show no error, and out of square one will not be parallel to the drawn line.

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

I finish mine with wax polish - helps the plane to slide nicely on the runway.

If the fence is out slightly, use a piece of card or paper between the workpiece and the fence, at the appropriate end, to make up for the discrepancy. However, if it's out by a lot, it might be better to remove the fence and re-position it when you have a decent square. 

The best squares are the all-metal engineers type.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## PerranOak

Thanks Digit, yes it is out by 1mm over its length, 150mm!!! Argh!

Paul, yes I need a decent one!

Can anyone recommend a REALLY accurate and stable square, say 150mm. I'm prepared to spend on this one!

Incidentally, I'll also need a mitre square.


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## Paul Chapman

Axminster do them in various sizes and they should be OK. If you find they are not, you could always send them back http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp? ... GN06N0VIMJ

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## PerranOak

Cheers!

What about those combination squares?


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## Digit

Mine is Moore and Wright and it is fine, but the cheapo ones may not be so. The normal engineer's type from a reputable supplier comes with a guarantee of accuracy.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

... sorry to be picky but only "fine"?


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## Digit

Well ok, it is accurate!
Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious if you like! :lol: 

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

PerranOak":1iiwa4wz said:


> What about those combination squares?



Some people say they are OK but, personally, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I've never used one that is accurate or even consistently inaccurate. I have two that I use for various measuring tasks but I never use them as squares.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl

Paul Chapman":j3yhywsz said:


> PerranOak":j3yhywsz said:
> 
> 
> 
> What about those combination squares?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some people say they are OK but, personally, I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole. I've never used one that is accurate or even consistently inaccurate. I have two that I use for various measuring tasks but I never use them as squares.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul
Click to expand...


Generally i'd agree - all the ones I have used in the past have been way out.

But I struck lucky and got a comination head (Mitutoyo or something similair) which I use with both a 12" and 24" Moore & Wright rule. It is spot on accurate.

Cheers

Karl


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## Digit

My M and W is accurate, that is to say as accurate as you are likely to get with such a short stock!
The square that I use most frequently is a roofing square. Made in one piece, if it is made accurate it should stay accurate, unlike many that are made from a number of pieces.

Roy.


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## Davon

PerranOak":1s3h82y1 said:


> Well, I've made it! (The shooting board, that is!)



Excuse me....... Point of Order.................If what I understand is correct, PerranOak has NOT made a shooting board. NO PICS. :lol: :lol: :lol: 


Davon


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## Night Train

My shooting board is much wider then normal, about 4' long, to support the length of a long plank. It makes the fence very long and thus makes small adjustments easier.

It is also reversable so when I flip it over I get a 45deg shooting board for mitres. It then becomes a left handed board though.

It looks like a 4' wide bench hook with fence on the under side hooked on the edge of the bench.

To adjust the fence for shooting I have a screw at the planing end as a pivot for the fence and then along its length there are several screws in slotted holes. I loosen them all, set the fence square, or to whatever adjusted angle I need, and then tighten the screws along its length making sure the fence is straight on a straight edge.

I also have a shooting board for cutting mitres the other way around. The bed of the board lifts up on a quadrant to the desired angle for making corners of triangular boxes.


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## PerranOak

Davon":ciz7e9v0 said:


> PerranOak":ciz7e9v0 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I've made it! (The shooting board, that is!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Excuse me....... Point of Order.................If what I understand is correct, PerranOak has NOT made a shooting board. NO PICS. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> 
> Davon
Click to expand...

Oops! Good point! 
Still, are you sure you actually want to SEE my paultry effort!?
I have to figure out how to photo it without showing my shim-shame(!)


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## PerranOak

Davon":b4je9b17 said:


> Excuse me....... Point of Order.................If what I understand is correct, PerranOak has NOT made a shooting board. NO PICS. :lol: :lol: :lol:



Well, this is it ... such as it is!







I realise now that I am a wimp and a wuss! It really takes it out of me to use it! I have to rest for hours!!!


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## Gill

Believe it or not, I've made a shooting board too  !

I'm also having difficulties using it. I've tried it with a Record #7, a Stanley #5 plane and a block plane, but none of them cut the wood smoothly. Their throats seem to clog and to get any sort of cut I have to make the blade protrude a long way.

Scroll saws I can manage, but hand tools bite me. Where have I gone wrong? 

Gill


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## newt

For good shooting you do need a well set up plane, very sharp blade and a flat sole. Gill if you have to have the blade protruding a long way to get a cut that could mean the sole is not flat or the blade is dull or both. You also have to consider the type of wood and it thickness. Anything over 3/4" I may not bother to shoot if it is hard, I would just use a shallow angle plane in the conventional manner. Shooting end grain is a lot easier with a low angle plane LV LA jack is an example, you can also have a wide mouth set on the plane when working end grain. Try some shooting on some thinner wood say 5mm and see how you get on.


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## Digit

Or dare I say it? A TS, a cross cut sled and a good multi tooth saw blade!  

Roy.


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## newt

Perranoak, that shooting board looks the business and well made.


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## Gill

newt":1f00iu07 said:


> For good shooting you do need a well set up plane, very sharp blade and a flat sole. Gill if you have to have the blade protruding a long way to get a cut that could mean the sole is not flat or the blade is dull or both. You also have to consider the type of wood and it thickness. Anything over 3/4" I may not bother to shoot if it is hard, I would just use a shallow angle plane in the conventional manner. Shooting end grain is a lot easier with a low angle plane LV LA jack is an example, you can also have a wide mouth set on the plane when working end grain. Try some shooting on some thinner wood say 5mm and see how you get on.



My planes have been tuned in accordance with the advice given in Garrett Hack's book and the blades have been intimate with a Tormek, so I've no doubt about how they are set up. Indeed, I checked them with an engineer's square before use. Although the block plane is the only one with an adjustable throat, even that got clogged on its widest setting. The wood I mangled was 3mm oak, which shouldn't have posed a problem.

I'm not keen to spend money on an expensive new plane, but thanks for the suggestions anyway. Perhaps I should get down to the gym and build up my arm muscles instead :lol: .

Gill


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## PerranOak

Gill":1673ii9o said:


> I'm also having difficulties using it. I've tried it with a Record #7, a Stanley #5 plane and a block plane, but none of them cut the wood smoothly. Their throats seem to clog and to get any sort of cut I have to make the blade protrude a long way.



Blimey! That's EXACTLY what is happening to me! I have had some good results but it's cost me one dodgy shoulder and everything on the shelves that wasn't nailed down - my "workshop" is a ricketty old shed - still, it has worked on occasion.

The plane often stops half way (because the blade it protrudes so far) unles I give it a massive, shelf trembling, welly of a stroke! We are talking 10 - 12mm softwoods here.

Also, I get tiny breakout - probably because I'm slamming it in?


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## PerranOak

newt":1u58m834 said:


> Perranoak, that shooting board looks the business and well made.



Cheers mate, I tried and it is pretty square - now - that's good, for me!!!

I think my problem is the plane/me/technique or, being honest, just me!

It's a shame though because when all was working well, the shavings were purring out of the plane and I swear it was singing to me as it shot through! Nothing nicer than end-grain being shaved-off square and unbroken with a "shwoop"!

Maybe like Gill I need more muscle!


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## newt

Gill, 3mm oak should have been really easy, almost no effort at all. I have some concern why things are jamming up even with the widest mouth, I can only think you are taking to deep a cut for the size of the mouth opening. However you say the blade is sharp, can it easily shave hair they should just pop of as soon as the blade touches them, I know of no other way to assess sharpness without being there. I typically get 1 1/2 thou shavings end grain, of course as you try to take thicker shavings up goes the effort. One other thing it is necessary to get the blade square to the sole and to maintain a constant downward and sideways pressure through out the stroke. Sometimes it can be like hitting a brick wall if the plane rotates about its long axis during the stroke.


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## Paul Chapman

Gill":7w13u1yx said:


> I've tried it with a Record #7



You should get excellent results with a #7 on a shooting board. As Pete suggests, you probably need to sharpen the blade better - razor sharp and finely set and I would close up the mouth. Go for very thin shavings.

The David Charlesworth DVD on using shooting boards is excellent for showing you the technique if you are having problems.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke

PerranOak":eu0t9c72 said:


> Blimey! That's EXACTLY what is happening to me! I have had some good results but it's cost me one dodgy shoulder and everything on the shelves that wasn't nailed down - my "workshop" is a ricketty old shed - still, it has worked on occasion.
> 
> The plane often stops half way (because the blade it protrudes so far) unles I give it a massive, shelf trembling, welly of a stroke! We are talking 10 - 12mm softwoods here.
> 
> Also, I get tiny breakout - probably because I'm slamming it in?


 
Some good advice from Pete and Paul. Sounds to me like your blade isn't quite as sharp as it should be. With a *really *sharp edge there should be very little effort needed to push across end grain on a shooter, even on 12mm softwood. The plane setting for use on a shute is as you would have it normally set up for bench planing, it's not that different 'cept that the plane's on it's side - Rob


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## Digit

Reading these posts my first impression was that the piece being shot is protruding too far onto the runway, which in my experience produces these sort of problems.
My method is thus, set the iron and mouth very fine, place the plane on the runway and bring the workpiece up to the plane then shoot the end.
With a rhythm going you should get a series of clicks as the plane is pulled back to the start as the iron passes over it automatically setting the piece ready for the next pass.
The break out on a new board suggests that the work piece is too far onto the runway so losing the support of the stop and making hard work of the shooting. Hope that makes sense.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

Digit":21wkavvd said:


> My method is thus, set the iron and mouth very fine, place the plane on the runway and bring the workpiece up to the plane then shoot the end.



I wonder, when you've used a plane on a shooting board with the blade sticking out a long way then pull it back, doesn't it leave a gap that would cause break-out?


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## Digit

I don't have the iron protruding far so I don't know about that.

Roy.


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## Paul Chapman

PerranOak":aik0ig2y said:


> I wonder, when you've used a plane on a shooting board with the blade sticking out a long way then pull it back, doesn't it leave a gap that would cause break-out?



Shooting boards work best with fine cuts, so the blade shouldn't be 'sticking out a long way'.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke

woodbloke":2uehokva said:


> The plane setting for use on a shute is as you would have it normally set up for bench planing, it's not that different 'cept that the plane's on it's side - Rob


As I said earlier, the setting for a shooter is as you would have it for normal bench planing, which is generally *finly set, smallish mouth* and very *sharp*...it's not difficult :wink: - Rob


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## PerranOak

Well *now *you tell me!  

Given that I've cocked my board with a blade that sticks out like a tranny's tackle, how can I redress the problem? 

Should I sand the edge down and "re-commission" the board?


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## Digit

My method PO is a sacrificial face on the stop block, if you haven't taken that route and can now cut the damaged face away you should then be able to reface it now and in the future.

Roy.


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## Rich

I don't have a shooting board, but I have learnt by trial and error, that when edge planing, I get a much better finish if I turn the plane to say, 45 degs to the forward direction and use the cutting action as per a guillotine.

Rich.


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## PerranOak

Digit":1bz7s39l said:


> My method PO is a sacrificial face on the stop block, if you haven't taken that route and can now cut the damaged face away you should then be able to reface it now and in the future.



So, the block is "used up" on each pass?


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## PerranOak

Rich - yes but you're probably very skilled, I'm not!


Now! Look at this:







I did it! This end is square and smooth (for me!) ... except for, you'll see a little bit on the end like, not really tear-out but a very small burr, almost. It is on the end furthest from the plane start point.

Is it my stop block causing this?


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## Digit

No PO, once the face has been cut back by the amount that the iron protrudes through the sole of the plane no further removal of material from the face will occur.
If you have made cuts earlier with the iron protruding so far that cutting is difficult then retracted the iron, what will happen is that the piece you are cutting has now lost the support of the fence by the difference in the two depths of cut.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

Aw damn!

That means that each time the plane blade has to be EXACTLY the same protrusion! 

I knew there'd be a catch!


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## Digit

Basically yes PO, but if the feather on the edge is small normally you can simply live with it. Alternatively plane the edge that rested against the fence/stop and remove any breakout that way.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

Digit":38t8g6m6 said:


> Basically yes PO, but if the feather on the edge is small normally you can simply live with it. Alternatively plane the edge that rested against the fence/stop and remove any breakout that way.



I wonder ... if I shunted the facing piece on my stop block (it has a hardwood face) out a bit, that might help?

Thing is, I've screwed it in pretty firmly and, if I only move it by about 1/2mm or so I can't re-use the same screw holes without them ending-up oval and so causing the facing piece to be "mobile".


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## Digit

> I wonder ... if I shunted the facing piece on my stop block (it has a hardwood face) out a bit, that might help?



That should do it, but remember PO, the edge always wears in the long term, which is why I use a sacrificial face and replace it as needed.

Roy.


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## PerranOak

Digit":3vmrf7uu said:


> That should do it, but remember PO, the edge always wears in the long term, which is why I use a sacrificial face and replace it as needed.



Roy, can I see a picture of what you mean, I'm not sure that I really understand the sacrifical piece but like the sound of it.


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## Digit

Can't do any pics of mine PO as I have to confess that mine have been replaced by a very fine toothed TS blade and a cross cut sled....

http://www.whitemountdesign.com/Shootin ... 1_-PSD.JPG

... but here is one way of of achieving it. Another way is the shorten the fence and fit a piece on the end, either by gluing or with a couple of counter sunk screws.
Or save for a decent TS, (Duck, run!)

Roy.


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## Pete Hughes

Hello all,

How funny, I was just thinking about a shooting board myself. I made one years ago when I was in school (Chalk and slate days) and was wondering the exact same thing, that the plane must shave the edge off??
And then all you clever people come on here and allow me to sleep tonight,
Thanks,
Pete


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## Pete Hughes

Hello Roy,
When you talk about a "sacrificial face" do you mean the long face/edge that the plane runs along?
Sorry to be so thick.

Pete


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## PerranOak

Pete Hughes":2v4evk84 said:


> ... wondering the exact same thing, that the plane must shave the edge off?



It's all to do with the little bit on the plane where the blade fails to reach the edge. It formas a slight ridge that permits the clear flow of the plane along the run. It works. Amazing!


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## woodbloke

PO - t'would be far easier if someone could show you how a well set up shooter works...shame Alf has departed as she was in your neck of the woods - Rob


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## PerranOak

woodbloke":2lk6b9t1 said:


> PO - t'would be far easier if someone could show you how a well set up shooter works...shame Alf has departed as she was in your neck of the woods - Rob



Departed?


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## woodbloke

PerranOak":3hyjxwg6 said:


> woodbloke":3hyjxwg6 said:
> 
> 
> 
> PO - t'would be far easier if someone could show you how a well set up shooter works...shame Alf has departed as she was in your neck of the woods - Rob
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Departed?
Click to expand...

Not deceased I hasten to add...just no longer posting on this forum, more's the pity  - Rob


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## Philly

Al seems to have given up the woodworking for the time being (according to her blog)
Let's hope she catches the bug soon.
Philly


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## PerranOak

Yes, it's a shame.

she sent me a very nice and helpful email once.


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## BigShot

PerranOak":3szshaqo said:


> Yes, it's a shame.
> 
> she sent me a very nice and helpful email once.


Maybe you should drop her a line. She might take a few minutes to show you anyway, I know I wouldn't mind helping out if I could... I've just learned all I know about shooting boards from this very thread though. Sorry.


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## xy mosian

Sorry to jump in, I've just started reading this thread.



Rich":20xqw5lu said:


> I don't have a shooting board, but I have learnt by trial and error, that when edge planing, I get a much better finish if I turn the plane to say, 45 degs to the forward direction and use the cutting action as per a guillotine.
> 
> Rich.



Now if only I could remember where I was reading of shooting boards with sloping beds, which will of course produce a form of 'slicing' cut. The bed on which the plane slid is higher at the starting end.

xy


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## oddsocks

xy mosian":3bzzkk8v said:


> Sorry to jump in, I've just started reading this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Rich":3bzzkk8v said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a shooting board, but I have learnt by trial and error, that when edge planing, I get a much better finish if I turn the plane to say, 45 degs to the forward direction and use the cutting action as per a guillotine.
> 
> Rich.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now if only I could remember where I was reading of shooting boards with sloping beds, which will of course produce a form of 'slicing' cut. The bed on which the plane slid is higher at the starting end.
> 
> xy
Click to expand...


xy- i think you mean this one - I bookmarked it months ago but have not yet built a shooting board...

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/ShootingforPerfection.html

Dave


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## xy mosian

Dave, certainly along those lines, but I think I was reading a blog or a forum at the time. However I think the sloping bed would help keep the workpiece tight against the fence if nothing else.

xy


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