# Think I must revert to hand tool working.



## Benchwayze (15 Aug 2018)

The time has come. 

I am finding it a difficult to handle large pieces of work and long stock. (I suppose I could use cedar-wood and balsa only!) 
Seriously, my physical strength is going, so I am thinking of converting my utility room (Launderette, as my lady calls it!) as a hand-tool shop.

It's a nominal 12 x 5 feet, fully double glazed with bags of light. Do you hand-workers think it's big enough for a bench about 20 inches deep and 5 feet long. I think I'd get by for small stuff like tables, small cupboards etc. 

I wouldn't go the whole Richard McGuire route, much as I admire his work. Mainly because I can no longer saw on trestles due to metal knees and joint stiffness. 

Whilst I'd make most joints by hand, I don't HAVE to go full on handwork. I could find room for a drill stand, a small bandsaw such as the Draper, and a cupboard for routers, and my Festool collection; a domino and a track-saw, and extraction vacuum. Oh! And my Britool wood-trimmer guillotine! If I stuck the bench in the middle of the long wall, there would be about 3' 6" either side of me for cupboards. The doors are to my left and could be opened so the out-feed would be into the yard. 

I plan to use PAR timber from now on, but having a separate hand shop, would leave my garage with more space, should I ever want to use the 12" planer. (Actually, this might go on the market.)

Any observations on the suitability of 12 x 5 feet for a workshop!
I could give up altogether of course! 

Thanks in anticipation...

John


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## MikeG. (15 Aug 2018)

Benchwayze":7pdy08m1 said:


> ........I could give up altogether of course!..........



No. No, you couldn't. I've known you too long to think that was possible.


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## AJB Temple (15 Aug 2018)

It's not fitting in the tools that is the issue, but handling timber and having enough room to work. 5ft is very narrow.


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## Glynne (15 Aug 2018)

As before John, I'm only just down the road so if you need a hand just give me a shout.

Glynne


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## AndyT (15 Aug 2018)

When I lived in a small terraced house, my "workshop" was the space between the ground floor kitchen extension and the garden wall, roofed over with some corrugated plastic.
It probably was about 12' (or a bit less) by 5'.

I built a bench using a long strip of kitchen worktop along one side.

It was a small space but I managed to make the stuff I wanted including some very basic kitchen cabinets. My only power tool was an electric drill.

Certainly doable if you can store wood elsewhere (or ruthlessly only buy what you need) and don't fill every crevice with extra tools just because you like them. (As I have in my current 12' x 14' space  )


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## Mrs C (15 Aug 2018)

You have probably been doing this for a lot longer than I have, so apologies if this sounds like I am teaching you to suck eggs, but please don’t give up!

This is the same size as mine, although I have pinched a bit of the garage for a drill stand and p/t, neither of which I would now be without!

You have to be uber tidy in a small space. I have everything hung to hand on the wall, with everything religiously in its place (otherwise I spend longer gazing at the wall trying to find things than doing any work). Off cuts are the bane of my life as I hate throwing things away but have no where to keep them, then they accumulate at the end of the bench.

I have found that having a working surface the full length of my broom cupboard works best, you then have a space to work and a space to layout bits. I have a tracksaw, and my tracksaw table is also my assembly table which is also my router table.

So yes, it is very doable, although I wouldn’t move out of a larger space out of choice.


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## Benchwayze (15 Aug 2018)

Thanks to all who have commented. 

I work out of a single garage at he moment. (17' x 8' inside. ) It has only a 4 feet wide aisle between cupboards benches and machines in which to walk, and by trying to work tidy, it has always been just enough.

As MikeG says, I probably have enough tools, and I bought those over the years. The four main machines; planer, bandsaw, lathe, and a tracksaw to break down sheets; occasionally using the 10" saw attachment on my lathe. Most of my joints have always been cut by hand, unless it was projects for kitchens and other 'utilitarian' purposes. That's when I'd use biscuits, domino (Now) and dovetail jigs. 

I am prepared to abandon using these things, and scale down. For one thing I might welcome the cheaper electricity bills!

I measured up 'proper' this evening and the space is 12' 7" x 5' 4". Where I envisage putting the bench I can position the vice opposite the kitchen door, which would give me room to work without continually backing into obstacles. Before I start though I have to finish off the kitchen cupboards, which I am fitting with new doors. I am making some of these , as most of them are on the counters, to avoid too much bending! Under the counters I use drawers to minimise poor access. 

My first workshop ever was a leaking, 8x6 greenhouse at the top of the garden, and after each session, I had to put everything away in a castored tool box and wheel my tools down the path and into the outside loo!! Eventually I was able to build a 9 foot square shop, and although it was comparative luxury, I was still working quite small; and 9" thick walls decreased the space even further. (That's how I learned basic bricklaying! ) :mrgreen: I will get used to cramped working again and still have the garage in which to glue up. 
This is doable, and will hopefully keep me occupied over the time I have left. Therefore, I am not giving up until I really have too. If it takes weeks to complete projects, well that will be nothing new anyway! 
Thanks again everyone, and by all means if you think of anything else, just feel free to continue the thread. 

Best of luck

Almost forgot.. Probably the main reason I am considering this, is the fact I won't have to go outside to get to the shop! Just through the kitchen and there I am! 

John


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## Benchwayze (15 Aug 2018)

Glynne":1p508hg9 said:


> As before John, I'm only just down the road so if you need a hand just give me a shout.
> 
> Glynne



That's noted Glynne and thank you.
For this kitchen job Number One Son has been pressed, but he starts a new job next month so his hours might not be suitable ; unless he still will be on shifts! 

Cheers John


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## D_W (17 Aug 2018)

Is there an adjacent space where you can do assembly? I control most of a 29 foot square space, minimum 3/4ths of it, and if I have more than one project going on, I'll feel pinched for space. I do use about a quarter of my share of that space for lumber storage, so it's not all building space. 

I have no idea on the bench, 4 feet is a bit short. My bench is 7, there are times when I'd appreciate 10, but I suppose five could do with enough weight, but you'll go without much overhang on the ends and sometimes that's nice to have. 6 would be a nice compromise with two feet to the wall from the end and another four behind the bench where you could get your buttocks into it from behind if you need to when planing. 

If getting on your knees is a no-no, sawing with wood affixed to the bench is a reasonable option (so long as you've broken down your timber before you get into the shop). 

my bench is 22 inches wide. I wouldn't see a need for a wider bench than that, but I wouldn't want to go much narrower, which leaves you just over three feet to saw things in the vise. I think that part will be problematic, as any carpenter saw will have your arm in the wall, let alone your feet.


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## Benchwayze (17 Aug 2018)

Thanks DW. 

Yes I can assemble in the yard just outside the 'new shop'. But I might have to go to planning to erect a canopy without walls over the yard. Even then I could only use it when we have fine or just dry weather; although I could fit a tarpaulin type curtain I suppose. But it's no big deal to go back into the garage for gluing-up, and I can leave jobs out of my way whilst they dry in a damp-free atmosphere.

My utility room is accessed by a door from the kitchen and if I position the vice opposite that door I have plenty of 'behind' space to back into! 

I wouldn't be able to put a bench in the middle of the room unless I put it across the space. In this case I wouldn't have any space to each end of the bench; unless it was a tiny three foot bench, which isn't practical. Although I have seen tiny dovetailing benches this small. (The Renaissance Woodworker on the 'Tube has one, (if I remember correctly.)

I think a five foot by two foot bench is adequate for me. I won't be making any huge items from now on; except maybe a new food cupboard, which might need to be 6 feet or so high. That can be solved by making it from two, three feet high cupboards, stacked atop each other. 

There are going to be inconveniences if I move my shop, but at 79, I am not going to take on any major work on my own, so I am going to take that chance. 

Thanks again and take care

John


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## SammyQ (18 Aug 2018)

Go for it John! I'm I'm impressed and inspired to read of your intended 're-jig' of your spaces...but you didn't give up! 
I'm downsizing too, with the added caveat of moving everything many leagues and like you, am having to make hard decisions: only 62, but arthritis is knocking on the workshop door. Go Buddy!
Sam


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## MusicMan (18 Aug 2018)

How about doing as you suggest, but keeping the big machines in the garage on castors? Then they would be largely out of the way and could be unused most of the time, except when you really need them?


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## D_W (18 Aug 2018)

Benchwayze":1a6zouhy said:


> Thanks DW.
> 
> Yes I can assemble in the yard just outside the 'new shop'. But I might have to go to planning to erect a canopy without walls over the yard. Even then I could only use it when we have fine or just dry weather; although I could fit a tarpaulin type curtain I suppose. But it's no big deal to go back into the garage for gluing-up, and I can leave jobs out of my way whilst they dry in a damp-free atmosphere.
> 
> ...



Working outside on large stuff is a great idea, and if it's not too hot, the breeze outside would just about be heavenly sometimes. 

My shop is halfway underground, about 80 degrees F at any given time and you will sweat if you stand in it. It could be worse given the temp being limited based on being halfway underground, but the cool temperature means higher relative humidity. 

If you could build yourself a timber bench with a wood screw, and could leave it outside, it would be a fantastic workstation. All of the little fine dust you get handsawing would just drift away into nothing.


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## Benchwayze (19 Aug 2018)

Sammy:

Thank you; No I certainly won't be giving up. Arthritis is also my main problem, and it is now moving into my lower spine. This means I do have to be careful twisting and bending. Fortunately, I learned long ago how to keep my toos sharp, so that helps; less effort to use them properly.  

Music Man; 
My planer thicknesser is a beast. A 12" Sedgwick, and at the moment I don't have the means of lifting it, to equip it with castors; I can't weld either, so I am leaving it in the garage, on three broom-stales, which do work, to move it back and forth. (The biggest problem with that is the noise, but so far, no one has ever complained. Could be because I've made lots of little items for pence, to bribe them!  

My hand bench will be retired, and for anything I might need to do in there I can press the MFT into service; perhaps mounting it on a stout wooden bench on castors. I have used it as a hand bench in the past, so I know it's good for light planing. 

I made a start clearing out the food cupboard in my kitchen and and dismantling the old one. Sometime this week I can move the freezer into the kitchen (which is where i should have put it 30 years ago! ) Then I shall have a better idea of whether or not my imagination has been sound, as I find out how the reality stacks up for space; but I think it will be okay! 

DW. 

I had an outside bench for use on good days 40 odd years ago, when I lived in a two-up two down, terraced house. I had a clamp-on vice, on a potting-bench with a beefed up top. I made do. We don't have the kind of climate to leave tools outside, and although a wooden vice would have been sound, I never had the tools to make a bench back then, much less make a vice! 

Now I live alone I don't need so much kitchenware or food storage, and that's the reason I hit on the idea of using my utility room. I might miss the pleasure of eating in this sunny room, which I've been doing this summer, but that's a small price to pay! 

I am looking forward to starting a new shop from scratch. It's going to be fun I think! It will also give me a reason to get out of bed in the mornings! When I get stuck into this, I am hoping to WIP this project; if I can remember to take the pics! 

Sorry to have gone on a bit!!! 

Thanks again everyone.


John


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## MusicMan (20 Aug 2018)

Thanks, interesting. 

Hmmm I see what you mean about lifting the 12" planer onto castors. I'm 78 and have had two knee replacements due to arthritis; they work very well and I am pain free, but have to come to terms with the fact that I have lost strength pretty well all round! 

We await the WIP with interest!

Keith


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## Benchwayze (20 Aug 2018)

Thanks Keith:

Same problems here. Both knees replaced, and one hip on the way out. My knees aren't pain free, especially when I first rise in the mornings. But I can get around. I can't kneel either as that really is painful! But we find ways around these problems. 

Cheers 

John


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## MusicMan (21 Aug 2018)

Thanks, John

Ah, kneeling. You're right that doesn't work, not at least without serious padding. More limiting in the garden than the workshop though. Part of the trick is not to be embarrassed at using geriatric aids such as kneelers and "reachers" to pick up stuff from the floor. One in the workshop, one by the front door, one by the back door!

Oh and one does have to ignore the irritating posts on this forum such as "just do it on a sawhorse and hold it down with your knee". Er, no, that's not happening. But you're right, part of the challenge is finding a way round. And admiring Phil.P who does it all from a wheelchair.

cheers, Keith


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## Benchwayze (21 Aug 2018)

Hi Keith, 

Today is one of those days when I feel like I am walking on stilts! 

The clear out of the utility room is coming along, and I've ordered some of those interlocking rubber tiles to put over the ceramic floor. (Bit of a pain finding them with Axminster's search engine. Then I remembered they were still on my wish-list!) 

Also on order some match-board for the one expanse of clear wall I have, for a tool wall and shelving. When I moved into the house, I didn't do this first, and lined out the garage, gradually over the following months. I'm not making that mistake this time! 

So, slowly getting somewhere.

Cheers 

John


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