# Toothed blades for bevel-down planes



## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

At the West Dean Hand Tool Event, I was impressed by the demonstraton by Deneb of the Lie Nielsen Toolworks of the use of a toothed blade when preparing rough, sawn stock to size. Deneb was using a toothed blade in a Lie Nielsen bevel up plane and it did not seem as though any such blades were available for bevel-down planes - disappointing because all my planes are bevel down  

However, by chance I found that bevel-down toothed blades are available \/ They are made by Kunz and can be ordered through Dick in Germany http://www.dick.biz/

I ordered one on Saturday and it arrived yesterday. Here it is







It seems quite nicely made. One slight problem with bevel down toothed blades is that shavings can get trapped between the blade and the cap iron but I found that this can be easily overcome by setting the cap iron a long way back from the edge (you might need to move the frog back a bit in order to be able to withdraw the blade sufficiently when adjusting the blade). I found it works OK like this






When doing rough work like this the cap iron serves no purpose other than to enable the blade to be adjusted, so the planing will not suffer.

I bought the blade to use primarily in my old Record #07 which I use for a lot of stock preparation - usually with a heavily cambered blade. It fits nicely in the plane






I tried the blade on a piece of rough oak which was very subject to tear-out. I found the blade works best used at 45 degrees across the grain






The results are superb. Good stock removal and absolutely no tear-out 8) 

The type of shavings you get are long and stringy - as you would expect from the toothed blade 







The blade leaves a cross-hatched pattern on the wood which is then easily removed with the jointer plane with conventionally honed blade.

The whole point of these blades is that if, like me, you have no machinery and do all your stock preparation by hand, the normal method of reducing the wood to a presentable state is to use a heavily cambered blade. However, this can cause serious tear-out. It's better to use the heavily cambered blade to knock off the really high spots, then move on to the toothed blade which will give slightly less deep cuts but a tear-free finish, then move on to a conventional blade to finish.

The bottom line is that I'm delighted with the blade and envisage using it a lot.

I ordered one for Karl as well - be interesting to see what he thinks of it :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":5ul88uue said:


> I tried the blade on a piece of rough oak which was very subject to tear-out. I found the blade works best used at 45 degrees across the grain



Are you doing a skew cut (plane at 45 degrees, moved along the workpiece), or an angled cut (plane at 45 degrees moved in its own length) ?

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

bugbear":2nq9zu86 said:


> an angled cut (plane at 45 degrees moved in its own length) ?



Yes, that one  

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":1nmhj9hh said:


> bugbear":1nmhj9hh said:
> 
> 
> > an angled cut (plane at 45 degrees moved in its own length) ?
> ...



Surely in that case the blade may as well be in a smaller plane (e.g. #4 1/2) - the length of the #7 is providing no benefit, and the mass is a disadvantage.


BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

bugbear":1d0ht28t said:


> Surely in that case the blade may as well be in a smaller plane (e.g. #4 1/2) - the length of the #7 is providing no benefit, and the mass is a disadvantage.



Possibly - but I use the #7 a lot. It's one of my favourite size planes. There are three planes I use with heavily cambered blades for stock preparation






That's a #7, a #5.5 and my Frampton Special (about a #3). Invariably I end up using the #7 because it works so well and, with it's longer length, it levels out the wood nicely as well as getting rid of the crud.

In fact for lots of jobs I find the #7 a great plane - but it comes down to personal preference and how you work IMHO. If I had to have only one plane it would be a #7...........

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## woodbloke (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman wrote:


> If I had to have only one plane it would be a #7...........


Paul - ... you've been reading that Alan Peter's book again :lol: - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

woodbloke":1f1p3i26 said:


> Paul - ... you've been reading that Alan Peter's book again :lol:



Well, if it's good enough for him.......... 8) Only wish I could produce stuff like he does.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":16c6hkai said:


> bugbear":16c6hkai said:
> 
> 
> > Surely in that case the blade may as well be in a smaller plane (e.g. #4 1/2) - the length of the #7 is providing no benefit, and the mass is a disadvantage.
> ...



I have no doubt; but in the "new circumstances" of the toothed blade, working at 45 degrees, it seem (perhaps newly) less optimal.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

bugbear":lymrott4 said:


> Paul Chapman":lymrott4 said:
> 
> 
> > bugbear":lymrott4 said:
> ...



This question of which is the "best" plane size in any given situation is a fascinating one - and one to which I feel there is no answer. It seems to me that people either like big ones or they like small ones. OK, there is all the theory, but which one I pick up is the one that works best for me :wink: 

It was interesting that at West Dean, Deneb also seemed to favour big planes - and he had the whole of the LN arsenal to choose from. Here he is planing a relatively small piece of Mahogany with his #8 after having gone over it with the toothed blade






Several people asked him about the plane and queried whether it was too large, but Deneb was having none of it - the #8 for him was King, as the #7 is for me.

Each to their own, as they say :wink: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":1aafhjz9 said:


> Several people asked [Deneb] about the plane and queried whether it was too large, but Deneb was having none of it - the #8 for him was King, as the #7 is for me.


All get used, but I do agree about the #7
Now if only Messrs Hudson and Reid...
(no, maybe not - let them get the bullnose out the door and then get on with the block plane)
Cheers
Steve


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

dunbarhamlin":3jamdm0b said:


> and then get on with the block plane



Yes, it is a cracker, isn't it - I always told Mike I would buy the first one but it sounds like you might beat me to it :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (10 Jul 2008)

S'Okay - I'm not selfish, I'll be quite happy with number two - until then will just have to slum it with an A2 iron from the Maine man.


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## newt (10 Jul 2008)

Thanks Paul must order one.


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

newt":22ezvsui said:


> Thanks Paul must order one.



Hi Pete,

When honing the blade, so as to avoid wearing down the grooves on the flat side of the blade, I did your trick of wiping the edge through a piece of softwood to get rid of the burr. Worked really well.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":qkom6vs1 said:


> I ordered one for Karl as well - be interesting to see what he thinks of it :-k
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Hi Paul

I've had a chance to give the blade a quick hone and pop it in the Philly Jack (for others benefit, Paul ordered me the 2" blade). It fitted in nicely - I was a little worried about whether the wedge might pop through the mouth, as the plane takes a 3mm blade as standard.

Anyway, after a little tap here, a little retraction there, a little tap here.....

Had a play on another piece of Oak (like for like comparison).

I set a deeper shaving than you - not sure what depth of cut is "normal", but I figured that the deeper I could go without tearout, the better. Check out my shavings






Again, planing at 45 degree to the board. I did also try skewing the cut at 45 degrees (ie the planing track is 90 deg to the edge). Made it a little easier to push the plane, although it was perfectly acceptable (with a firm grip) before. The downside of this 90 deg cutting action is the ease with which you can make significant hollows in the length of the board - been there before  

All in all, well impressed. I now have 3 blades for the Philly Jack - a cambered scrub type blade, the toothed blade and a straight blade. This latest addition has just increased the versatility of this plane.

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (10 Jul 2008)

karl":1d2zi7md said:


> I set a deeper shaving than you - not sure what depth of cut is "normal", but I figured that the deeper I could go without tearout, the better.



Hi Karl,

Glad you like it  I was being a bit tentative before and have since tried thicker shavings and, as you found, the blade copes well.

Reckon we could start a trend in these blades 8) :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (10 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":13ni2gg3 said:


> Reckon we could start a trend in these blades 8) :lol:



Nah, there's too many Normites on here !!!!! 

(says he with a Wadkin planer, Makita thicknesser, small Kity planer thicknesser and a nutool planer............but much prefers to use his hand planes).

Cheers

Karl


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## pam niedermayer (10 Jul 2008)

I'd think it much easier and cheaper to pick up an old woodie with toothing blade, especially in the UK. That's what I did 7 or 8 years ago. I also bought a toothing blade for the LN LAJ, which also works very nicely. The burr swiping trick isn't new at all.

Pam


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## bugbear (11 Jul 2008)

pam niedermayer":dc7vqh7j said:


> I'd think it much easier and cheaper to pick up an old woodie with toothing blade, especially in the UK.



The only planes I've ever seen in the UK with toothing blades are toothing planes (!).

These are shaped like coffin bodied smoothers, and have a blade bedded at around 85 degrees (near vertical).

Not very useful for the task being discussed - although I suppose you could just scavenge the blade.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jul 2008)

bugbear":3gcovlxx said:


> The only planes I've ever seen in the UK with toothing blades are toothing planes (!).



There seem to be two different and quite distinct uses for toothed blades. The common one (as far as I can ascertain from the research I've done) is in preparing groundwork for veneering. I've also seen references to their use by, for example, makers of musical instruments where they are working in thin, exotic timbers subject to tear-out.

What we saw at West Dean was their use in stock preparation, where you would use the blade in situations where a scrub-type or heavily cambered blade would normally be used - and the big advantage of the toothed blade is the lack of tear-out.

I had certainly not seen them used for this purpose in the past and haven't seen any references to this type of use in published material. Maybe that's why there seems to be a scarcity of bevel-down toothed blades - they simply weren't commonly used in the past for stock removal work.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (11 Jul 2008)

Paul Chapman":2xbamdro said:


> bugbear":2xbamdro said:
> 
> 
> > The only planes I've ever seen in the UK with toothing blades are toothing planes (!).
> ...



Agreed - stock prep with toothed blades seems to be that rarest of things - a genuinely new woodworking trick.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jul 2008)

bugbear":8usf9rdu said:


> Agreed - stock prep with toothed blades seems to be that rarest of things - a genuinely new woodworking trick.



And we read about it first on here \/ :lol:


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## pam niedermayer (11 Jul 2008)

Well, maybe it's a new trick in the UK, but several of us have been doing this for 6 or 7 years, at least. It was greatly facilitated by the toothed blade for the LN LAJ.

Pam


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jul 2008)

pam niedermayer":2c0pjst5 said:


> several of us have been doing this for 6 or 7 years, at least.



Even so, it has not acquired the status of common knowledge as far as I have been able to ascertain (although it probably has now  ).

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (11 Jul 2008)

pam niedermayer":156xtfl9 said:


> Well, maybe it's a new trick in the UK, but several of us have been doing this for 6 or 7 years, at least. It was greatly facilitated by the toothed blade for the LN LAJ.
> 
> Pam



Considering most technique's ages can be counted in centuries, 6-7 years is new, assuming we're talking serious stock removal.

The use of toothing planes to avoid tearout in difficult timbers under "moderate" stock removal, is of course one of the two main uses for toothing planes (the other being glue surface prep), and is not new at all.

These planes were always of the coffin type. I think the notion of toothed jack planes is rather new.

BugBear


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## woodbloke (11 Jul 2008)

If I recollect the traditional toothed blade in a coffin woodie had a 'v' shaped profile and scraped away the surface, blade usually set at some obscenely high angle. The blade we saw at West Dean look like a row of old battlements (I wonder if they have them in 'Murrica as well :-k) in other words, each tooth was like a small chisel so the cutting action is very different to the usual toothed veneering version - Rob


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jul 2008)

You are correct, Rob - the shape of the teeth on the LN blade are slightly different. The ones on my Kunz blade are more 'V' shaped. However, from what I recollect from trying out Deneb's plane at West Dean, the effective result of the two blades is very similar.

Details of the LN blades here http://www.lie-nielsen.com/?pg=4 The description confirms that the blades for bevel-up planes like Deneb was using have square teeth.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (11 Jul 2008)

Re: tooth shapes

(reposted from OLDTOOLS
http://swingleydev.com/archive/get.php? ... 89#message
)

I wrote of my hasty observations and guesses
of blades in my possession.

As it transpires, my first diagram was not very accurate,
but what I wrote/drew were enough to strike
a chord with the remarkable old tool knowledge
of Don McConnell.

He remembered a process that was a remarkably good fit
with what I'd presented, and went off to his library.

He found...

"A Treatise on Files and Rasps", published by the
Nicholson File Co., Providence, RI, 1878.

In it the following illustration:






Which is a remarkably good match with my second, more careful,
diagram of a toothing plane blade.






(Diagram of old toothing plane blade, upper is edge as seen, lower is perpendicular cross section of blade)

Don quoted text from the pamphlet as follows:

"In cutting files by hand, the operator is seated before an
anvil of special construction, which is mounted on a block;
the [file] blank to be operated upon, is, by means of the
feet, held down to the anvil by two leather straps, the
tang end of the blank being toward the operator. Wth a
chisel in one hand, held at the proper angles, and a hammer
of peculiar shape, in the other, he strikes his first blow
upon the chisel, which is placed at the point of the file;
this throws up a barb or ridge, extending across its surface.

"The chisel is then replaced on the blank, and is slid
up until it encounters the barb already made, when the second
blow is given, and so on, until the first course of teeth
is completed, so far as this face of the file is concerned."

Summary;
In conjunction with my observations of my blades,
it appears that we now have very good circumstantial
evidence to claim that we know how toothing blades
were made.

This may be genuine "reclaimed" lost knowledge

BugBear


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## jonbikebod (11 Jul 2008)

pam niedermayer":268kfc2h said:


> Well, maybe it's a new trick in the UK, but several of us have been doing this for 6 or 7 years, at least. It was greatly facilitated by the toothed blade for the LN LAJ.
> 
> Pam



Just to confound the historical confusion, the Stanley original #62 of the LN LA jack was never supplied with a serrated blade but the more utilitarian Stanley #64 butchers block plane was supplied with normal and serrated blades according to Patrick Leach. http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan9.htm 
Of course that implies end grain at least was being worked with low angle jack planes nearly 100 years ago. So more a slow transition than new idea?
Jon.


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## Paul Chapman (1 Aug 2008)

Just a quick update on my bevel-down toothed blade. Despite setting the cap iron back I was still occasionally getting some shavings trapped between the cap iron and the blade. This was as far back as I could get it






So I decided to shorten the cap iron. A few minutes on the high-speed grinder had the job done. This is how it now looks. Nice long shavings and no more problems with them getting trapped  






Still delighted with the blade. Excellent for removing lots of material with no tear out.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (1 Aug 2008)

Paul Chapman":13z26gq1 said:


> This is how it now looks. Nice long shavings and no more problems with them getting trapped
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Of course you don't get tear out; you're taking a fine cut 






Here are some "shavings" from that task






BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (1 Aug 2008)

I use an axe when cutting up my logs for the fire :lol: 

On the tear out, I also don't get any with much thicker shavings.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (1 Aug 2008)

Paul Chapman":jk9yejot said:


> I use an axe when cutting up my logs for the fire :lol:



Yes - that was also the preliminary tool for the piece I used 

BugBear


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## ydb1md (1 Aug 2008)

Paul Chapman":89u83s9s said:


> You are correct, Rob - the shape of the teeth on the LN blade are slightly different. The ones on my Kunz blade are more 'V' shaped. However, from what I recollect from trying out Deneb's plane at West Dean, the effective result of the two blades is very similar.
> 
> Details of the LN blades here http://www.lie-nielsen.com/?pg=4 The description confirms that the blades for bevel-up planes like Deneb was using have square teeth.
> 
> ...



For their bevel down planes, LN makes a toothed blade for no4 & no5 planes. For their bevel up planes, they make a toothed blade for the low angle jack.


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## bugbear (3 Sep 2008)

Following Paul's impressive dem of his Kunz equipment Record #07 at DaveL's bash

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... ork#292750

I went away and renewed some enquiries.

Both Salaman (Dictionary of tools) and Dunbar (Restoring, Tuning & Using Classic Woodworking Tools) only speak of two uses for a toothing plane; roughing a surface for glueing (discredited by modern research into glue action AFAIK), and stock removal without tearout.

However, they are clearly talking about the traditional coffin bodied tool with a near vertical blade, and the cutting action (in Dunbar's photos) is only removing dust, albeit quite rapidly.

I can find no reference to the use being discussed here, which is with near-45 effective pitch, and taking a substantial cut.

The nearest is the ECE toothing plane, with bedding angle 70°;

http://www.ecemmerich.com/metallhobel.html

(or http://www.fine-tools.com/divhob.htm which claims 75° ; I also
note the spare blade at € 17.30, which would be a nice fit for a philly plane)

Perhaps the continental European traditional is different.

Anyhow, since I own 3 coffin bodied toothing planes, I though I'd photograph the tooth shape:






The teeth are 17 tpi for the top two, and 16 tpi for the bottom photo.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (3 Sep 2008)

Thanks for that additional information, BugBear - very interesting 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (3 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":3gpl93ep said:


> Thanks for that additional information, BugBear - very interesting 8)
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



I was having so much fun googling and photographing that I forgot
something important that I thought of last night. 

When having the unending debate on BU vs BD, it's fairly self evident that as far as the cutting edge of the blade is concerned, it doesn't really matter, since both facets (bevel and back) of the blade are polished.

(although Brent Beach's diagrams showing wear on top and bottom of a blade may give you pause...
http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpe ... 0wear.html
:shock: 
)

However, in the case of a toothed blade we have a DEFINITE difference in nature between the bevel and the back, and depending on the BU/BD configuration the teeth are either on the top or the bottom (opposite the bevel, obviously  ).

It seems likely that there would be differences between the cutting actions of a toothed blade BU vs BD, although I have no idea what these differences would be.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (3 Sep 2008)

bugbear":o4bx5yn9 said:


> It seems likely that there would be differences between the cutting actions of a toothed blade BU vs BD, although I have no idea what these differences would be.



I think it would be necessary to try out the BU and BD blades side by side. I had a go with Denib's BU Lie Nielsen at Westonbirt and, from what I can remember, the cutting action was very similar to my BD blade.

There is another difference. The toothing on his BU blade was square shaped whereas on mine it's triangular. 

The bottom line is that both blades do the job very effectively, so I think any differences would be minimal.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (3 Sep 2008)

Paul Chapman":3lzjkpvx said:


> The bottom line is that both blades do the job very effectively, so I think any differences would be minimal.



Not so, at least at the level of "how". It is quite feasible that the two blades have differing actions (the how), but generally similar results (the what).

I readily acknowledge that many people are only interested in the "what".

BugBear (interested in the how)


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## MIGNAL (10 Jan 2009)

Time to resurrect this thread seeing as I'm now in possession of a toothing blade. 
Actually mine is an old Peugeot feres and is quite fine at some 25 TPI. It appears as though the teeth are more like the square profile rather than V shaped. They don't seem to come to a sharp peak although it is possible that someone has tried to flatten the back, somehow I get the feeling this has not been the case.
I could barely get the thing sharp or working effectively. I simply could not remove the burr despite many attempts on soft and hardwood. In the end I resorted to a very slight back bevel using a 8,000 waterstone. That really did improved matters although I still think it could perform better.


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## swagman (11 Jan 2009)

Paul Chapman said:


> bugbear said:
> 
> 
> > an angled cut (plane at 45 degrees moved in its own length) ?
> ...


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## Paul Chapman (11 Jan 2009)

They look really nice, swagman, and seem to work very well.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## ac445ab (9 Mar 2009)

Hi,  
I am planing some rough ash boards that present tearout problems. So, after using a scrub plane I tried to use a toothing blade (here still available in some hardware stores) on a wooden plane. The blade is large 46 mm with 17 TPI, mounted bevel down and bedded at 45°. 









In the following pic is shown the tearout that scrub plane has left. 





The toothing blade eliminated tearout 





But with the jointer (ordinary #7 Stanley plane) the problem came again. 





I had to use a 50° cutting angle (back bevel) in a smoothing plane for a better result. 





Has been the same for you with your jointer plane? Some advice? 
Ciao, 
Giuliano


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## Paul Chapman (9 Mar 2009)

Hi Giuliano,

Glad to see someone else using a toothing blade  They really do work.

With regard to tearout after using the toothing blade, it really depends on the individual piece of wood. In most cases I can finish it with my Clifton #7 with a tight mouth and very finely set iron. If I continue to get any tearout when finishing I will use my Veritas scraper plane which eliminates the tearout completely.

Hope this helps.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (9 Mar 2009)

Hi Giuliano

If I need to use a toothed blade to avoid tearout, I pretty much always go for a higher angled blade afterwards (at least 55 degrees), and take fine cuts. No point risking more tearout when you've just got rid of it all.

As Paul says, a scraper plane is another option.

Cheers

Karl


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## bugbear (10 Mar 2009)

ac445ab":3ojrop86 said:


> Hi,
> I am planing some rough ash boards that present tearout problems. So, after using a scrub plane I tried to use a toothing blade (here still available in some hardware stores) on a wooden plane. The blade is large 46 mm with 17 TPI, mounted bevel down and bedded at 45°.



On a totally unimportant side-issue, what wood is that plane made from?

BugBear


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## Derek Cohen (Perth Oz) (10 Mar 2009)

Hi BB

My guess would be something in the casuarina family. This strongly resembles She-oak, which is also a native of Western Australia.

Regards from Perth

Derek


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## graween (10 Mar 2009)

Hi.
It looks like holm oak (quercus ilex) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holm_Oak I don't have a picture but you can find easily it here.
It's a mediteranean tree.
Well at least it's my guess.
Hope it helps. In French it's called green oak or "chêne vert"


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## ac445ab (10 Mar 2009)

graween":rkmbt2k2 said:


> Hi.
> It looks like holm oak (quercus ilex) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holm_Oak I don't have a picture but you can find easily it here.
> It's a mediteranean tree.
> Well at least it's my guess.
> Hope it helps. In French it's called green oak or "chêne vert"


 
I agree. I saw this wood often in self-made planes here in Italy. 
May be the plane I shown comes from France. It had a Gondelberg blade.


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## Anonymous (11 Mar 2009)

Interesting idea Paul - never thought of trying one of those

Until now :wink:


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## graween (11 Mar 2009)

Hi ac445ab,
Yes in the south of France (some time ago now) this wood was also common on planes. Since this oak is around the mediterranean see.
This wood is reputed to be a good one for wooden planes.
And yes Goldenberg is an old French maker. But you can still find some new tools with this brand. Sadly not as good as old ones ... but that's an other story.
I'll have to try these blades !


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## jimi43 (12 Mar 2009)

As I prepare to make my first acoustic guitar one of the key issues is bookmatching some gorgeous SIKA SPRUCE and then MAHOGANY for the back. These come to me stock bookmatched pairs from the USA but the "nominal" thickness is anything from 5mm to 8mm across the jointed panel. 

SIKA SPRUCE is obviously VERY straight and tight grained and thicknessing by hand is generally done by a toothed blade as far as I can ascertain. You can thickness sand the panel down to near perfect thickness (3mm) but that would be cheating now wouldn't it!

Anyway I went looking for these blades and was ASTOUNDED to find they were in the £50 range! Looking at the blade (as described so accurately above as little chisel castellations) I figured that I could try making one buy buying a new stock blade and cutting the teeth in it with a bench mounted Dremel with grinding wheel.

I am not sure if this is technically the same but it sure worked fine!

Will post some pictures when I get around to doing them

Jim


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## bugbear (13 Mar 2009)

jimi43":1isb6es8 said:


> Anyway I went looking for these blades and was ASTOUNDED to find they were in the £50 range!



I don't understand. The post that started this thread linked to a site with prices far lower than that.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (13 Mar 2009)

Yes, the toothed blade I bought from Dick in Germany to fit my #7 costs 28.90 Euros.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## dunbarhamlin (13 Mar 2009)

jimi43":29luo0ib said:


> SIKA SPRUCE is obviously VERY straight and tight grained and thicknessing by hand is generally done by a toothed blade as far as I can ascertain. You can thickness sand the panel down to near perfect thickness (3mm) but that would be cheating now wouldn't it!


Have done it with a plane (untoothed) but wouldn't give up my drum sander. It may burn electrons but, particularly for interesting grained hardwoods, it's a lot less fraught! 
For the sitka, just watch for run out and plane accordingly. For the backs (and ribs) I'd just get close then finish with a scraper after joining.
Bear in mind once joined as a bookmatch grain direction reverses at the center line.
Cheers
Steve


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## adrian (16 Jun 2009)

I recently got the BU toothed blade for the Veritas jack and I put it to work on a piece of 14" wide figured timber (is your belt sander up to this job?). I find that I do not get tear out, but the grooves clog fairly quickly and are fairly difficult to unclog. The clogging doesn't necessarily stop it from cutting, but eventually the clogging material starts to drag and left the plane up and so cleaning it out is necessary. 

Does anybody else have this difficulty?


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## Paul Chapman (16 Jun 2009)

I can't understand why you should get the shavings clogging with a bevel-up blade. Have you opened up the mouth so that the shavings have plenty of room to clear :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## adrian (16 Jun 2009)

This is a bevel up plane with grooves down the back. Those grooves are down and it is the grooves that fill up with crud and clog. So the mouth of the plane stays clear, but the grooves in the blade behind the edge on the bottom of the plane fill up. Then I have a bunch of little teeny tiny grooves with shavings jammed into them and my stiffest brush doesn't always clear them out. I have to find something sharp and pointy to clean out the last few. 

I think a bit of crud in the grooves is probably harmless, but once it accumulates enough so that it keeps the blade from touching the wood, instead of cutting the plane makes streaks from dragging the crud along the wood.


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## Paul Chapman (16 Jun 2009)

As you probably know, I use a bevel-down toothed blade and have solved the problems I had with that clogging. I don't have a bevel-up plane but I've used Deneb Puchalski's bevel-up Lie Nielsen and watched him demonstrate it, and didn't have any problems with clogging, so can't offer any more suggestions. Here's a clip of Deneb using his http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pxKo1vj ... re=related doesn't seem to clog :? Possibly the mouth of the plane is acting the same way as the cap iron was with mine until I moved it far enough back :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## adrian (16 Jun 2009)

It may be that stuff is catching on the, uh, back side of the mouth. (Is that still part of the mouth? The part that's underneath the blade?) I can't exactly move that back. But I'm not sure that the back side of the mouth is really playing a role either. This clogging is most problematic when the clogs are right up near the edge. 

My problem sounds different than yours. As I understand, you were getting stuff lodging under the cap iron. I'm getting stuff lodged inside the grooves on the blade itself. Since shavings wouldn't ordinarily travel underneath the blade I'm not sure where exactly the clogging material comes from. 

When I saw the Deneb video it did not appear that he had any clogging issues.


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## Paul Chapman (16 Jun 2009)

adrian":vvelkzxi said:


> It may be that stuff is catching on the, uh, back side of the mouth. (Is that still part of the mouth? The part that's underneath the blade?)



Yes, that's what I meant. I was getting the shavings travelling up the grooves and lodging under the cap iron. Your plane, being a bevel-up, is upside down compared with mine, so I wonder whether in your case the shavings are travelling up the grooves (which are on the underside of your blade) and getting trapped by the back of the mouth. That's the only guess I can make as to what's happening in your case.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Paul Chapman (16 Jun 2009)

Just another thought, Adrian. Rob Lee of Lee Valley sometimes posts on here. If you don't manage to solve the problem, you could always PM Rob and see whether he or any of his people at Lee Valley have any suggestions to sort out the clogging problem.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## swagman (17 Jun 2009)

Yes in the south of France (some time ago now) this wood was also common on planes. Since this oak is around the mediterranean see.
This wood is reputed to be a good one for wooden planes.
And yes Goldenberg is an old French maker. But you can still find some new tools with this brand. Sadly not as good as old ones ... but that's an other story. (quote)

Hi. Attached is a block plane made by the French plane maker Goldenberg.

The plane as well as the blade are stamped with the makers name, including his interesting "eye" symbol. 

Also stamped on the front of the plane are the words (vrai cormier), which translated means (true cormier). Cormier Wood (Pyrus Sorbus) was the preferred timber used by Goldenberg, for his best hand planes.

regards swagman.


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## adrian (17 Jun 2009)

So does that French plane have a toothed blade? 

Lee Valley has suggested that the rust preventative that they smear on the blade might make the grooves sticky. I admit that I didn't try to thoroughly clean out the grooves when I was cleaning the anti-rust gunk off the blade. So I'll give that a try.


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## swagman (17 Jun 2009)

adrian":1l3z17hd said:


> So does that French plane have a toothed blade?
> 
> Lee Valley has suggested that the rust preventative that they smear on the blade might make the grooves sticky. I admit that I didn't try to thoroughly clean out the grooves when I was cleaning the anti-rust gunk off the blade. So I'll give that a try.



Hi adrian. No. The plane is not fitted with a toothing blade. This response relates to *graweens * information about *goldenberg planes*, and the type of wood used.

swagman.


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## swagman (17 Jun 2009)

adrian":1sgzj2v7 said:


> It may be that stuff is catching on the, uh, back side of the mouth. (Is that still part of the mouth? The part that's underneath the blade?) I can't exactly move that back. But I'm not sure that the back side of the mouth is really playing a role either. This clogging is most problematic when the clogs are right up near the edge.
> 
> My problem sounds different than yours. As I understand, you were getting stuff lodging under the cap iron. I'm getting stuff lodged inside the grooves on the blade itself. Since shavings wouldn't ordinarily travel underneath the blade I'm not sure where exactly the clogging material comes from.
> 
> When I saw the Deneb video it did not appear that he had any clogging issues.



Adrian. I have never come across a bevel up toothing plane. My only recommendation without knowing any details about the plane you have is to try using it with the blade bevel facing down. The location of the mouth opening will be a critical factor.

Hope it helps. swagman


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## Paul Chapman (17 Jun 2009)

adrian":vx1smc1w said:


> Lee Valley has suggested that the rust preventative that they smear on the blade might make the grooves sticky. I admit that I didn't try to thoroughly clean out the grooves when I was cleaning the anti-rust gunk off the blade.



Yes, that sounds like the most likely cause and it would also explain why you have had difficulty cleaning the clogged shavings away.

Let's know if it works.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (17 Jun 2009)

Paul Chapman":qp0fkkqq said:


> adrian":qp0fkkqq said:
> 
> 
> > Lee Valley has suggested that the rust preventative that they smear on the blade might make the grooves sticky. I admit that I didn't try to thoroughly clean out the grooves when I was cleaning the anti-rust gunk off the blade.
> ...



Aha - I have the same problem with a toothed blade in my LV BUS (not the blade you got me Paul - that's in the Philly Jack - do I have a toothed blade problem ????). I never cleaned it up before using it either - will give it a go.

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (17 Jun 2009)

Karl":e8xvu26r said:


> do I have a toothed blade problem ????



No, you're OK Karl, you can never have too many toothed blades 8) :lol: 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## adrian (18 Jun 2009)

I tried cleaning out the grooves with alcohol as recommended. I didn't notice that the cleaning process had any effect. (In other words, I didn't see gunk in there that was removed by cleaning.) 

I put the blade back in service and still find that I have clogging problems. 

Here's a picture after a minute or so of planing. 





[/img]


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## Paul Chapman (18 Jun 2009)

Hi Adrian,

That's exactly the same sort of problem I was getting with my bevel-down blade, but with the shavings getting trapped between the top of the blade and the cap iron, until I solved it by grinding the end of the cap iron to make it shorter. But that's no help to you.

All I can suggest is that you PM Rob Lee with a copy of the picture and see what else he and his people can suggest.

Hope you get it sorted because toothed blades really are very good - honest.......

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## adrian (18 Jun 2009)

swagman":2hhbqnjk said:


> Adrian. I have never come across a bevel up toothing plane. My only recommendation without knowing any details about the plane you have is to try using it with the blade bevel facing down. The location of the mouth opening will be a critical factor.



The blade is a bevel up blade for a bevel up plane bedded at 12 degrees. I don't have a plane that I could fit this blade in bevel down. If I flipped the blade over in the plane I've got I'd have a 12 degree cutting angle


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## swagman (19 Jun 2009)

adrian":125wsvj8 said:


> I tried cleaning out the grooves with alcohol as recommended. I didn't notice that the cleaning process had any effect. (In other words, I didn't see gunk in there that was removed by cleaning.)
> 
> I put the blade back in service and still find that I have clogging problems.
> 
> ...



Hi Adrian. The photo makes a big difference in understanding the problem you have. With respect, this is *a design disaster.* With the grooved blade bedded at 12 degrees, and BU, the shavings will continue to escape through the gaps along the cutting edge. The back of the mouth will then catch these shavings,causing the build up problem you are experiencing. 

The only thing you can do is try and get your money back, or keep it and replace the blade with a normal BU type.

regards swagman.

Paul. Your spot on with the cap iron. If its set too close on a grooved blade, it will trap the shavings.


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## adrian (22 Jun 2009)

You're saying that you think a bevel up toothed blade is an inherently flawed concept? I wonder then why Veritas and Lie Nielsen sell them--they usually think their designs through reasonably well. Paul said he had to grind back his chip breaker, so it sounds like the bevel down configuration has its own pitfalls. 

It's not obvious to me why the chips end up going into the grooves. I mean, shouldn't they go up onto the top of the blade?

I have a normal blade for the plane in the picture. I just fitted it with the toothed blade for dealing with the troublesome grain. At Lee Valley's direction I cleaned the grooves aggressively with a brass brush, and mineral spirits. It's possible it's clogging less now than earlier, but clogging hasn't been completely eliminated.


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## swagman (23 Jun 2009)

adrian":2knix8wz said:


> You're saying that you think a bevel up toothed blade is an inherently flawed concept? I wonder then why Veritas and Lie Nielsen sell them--they usually think their designs through reasonably well. Paul said he had to grind back his chip breaker, so it sounds like the bevel down configuration has its own pitfalls.
> 
> It's not obvious to me why the chips end up going into the grooves. I mean, shouldn't they go up onto the top of the blade?
> 
> I have a normal blade for the plane in the picture. I just fitted it with the toothed blade for dealing with the troublesome grain. At Lee Valley's direction I cleaned the grooves aggressively with a brass brush, and mineral spirits. It's possible it's clogging less now than earlier, but clogging hasn't been completely eliminated.



Hi Adrian. Try grinding a higher cutting angle on your toothing blade. Just grind the new angle up to the bottom line of the grooves, hone the edge and give it a go. This may help resolve the problem you have. 

regards swagman.


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## adrian (23 Jun 2009)

The blade came with a 38 degree bevel and I honed it a bit higher than that up to the grooves and finished off with a microbevel probably at 40. 

Would you recommend going higher still? 


Here are pictures showing the improved result I got after cleaning out the grooves with a wire brush. Or maybe the difference has to do with the condition of the workpiece. I don't know. The clogging is reduced, but not eliminated from my earlier picture. I was also able to plane much longer before it appeared to be a problem.


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## MIGNAL (23 Jun 2009)

I know the mouth is open but if you can set it even wider it just might improve things a touch. Just a thought.


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## swagman (23 Jun 2009)

adrian":374dbdkx said:


> The blade came with a 38 degree bevel and I honed it a bit higher than that up to the grooves and finished off with a microbevel probably at 40.
> 
> Would you recommend going higher still?
> 
> ...



Hi Adrian. Add another 10 degrees to your main bevel and hone till sharp.
If this improves the performance of your blade you know your on the right track. 

If that's an adjustable mouth opening on your plane, open it up further to help clear the wood fibres when in use. Unlike a conventional blade, a tight mouth opening is not a requirement when using a toothing blade.

If you can let me know the results from these changes I would appreciate it.

regards swagman.


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## adrian (23 Jun 2009)

Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?


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## adrian (23 Jun 2009)

I sent my pictures to Lee Valley and they report that my new improved state of operation with a few grooves clogging is normal.


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## swagman (23 Jun 2009)

adrian":jhadt4ml said:


> Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?



Hi Adrian. By making the bevel angle higher there is a better chance the full depth of groove will penetrate the wood surface.The wood fibers should then remain in front of the cutting edge, and be forced into the mouth opening.

The change in effort to push through the planing stroke shouldn't be that great a problem. Just remember to lift the plane away from the work surface at the end of each stroke. That way your less likely to drag the wood fibers into the back of the blade.

If you still have reservations, limit the change to 5 degrees and evaluate the difference. Don't forget to open the mouth a bit more also.

regards swagman.


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## adrian (23 Jun 2009)

swagman":1mqjju5v said:


> adrian":1mqjju5v said:
> 
> 
> > Why would a higher angle make a difference? I can see an obvious downside to a higher angle: harder to push. So I'm curious before I do this why you think it would help?
> ...



I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't the depth of cut determine the depth of groove penetration independent of the bevel angle? 



> Don't forget to open the mouth a bit more also.



The mouth is all the way open. 

One idea I did have was that initially the wood had scallops left by a fore plane with a rounded blade. I was using the toothed plane across these scallops. Perhaps the chips from the toothed plane were falling into the troughs and getting caught by the back of the mouth later. As planing continues, the board gets flatter, the scallops are removed, and then there's nowhere for the chips to go but up on top. Or at least it's harder for them to get underneath.


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## Paul Chapman (23 Jun 2009)

adrian":23eq2u8m said:


> One idea I did have was that initially the wood had scallops left by a fore plane with a rounded blade. I was using the toothed plane across these scallops. Perhaps the chips from the toothed plane were falling into the troughs and getting caught by the back of the mouth later. As planing continues, the board gets flatter, the scallops are removed, and then there's nowhere for the chips to go but up on top. Or at least it's harder for them to get underneath.



I don't think that's the problem. For those of us who use toothed blades to prepare rough, sawn wood, it's standard practice to knock off the high spots with a scrub or other heavily cambered blade, then follow with the toothed blade.

I'm still rather baffled by your problem, but coming to the conclusion that a bevel-down toothed blade with modified cap iron like I use is a better option than a bevel-up plane with a toothed blade.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (23 Jun 2009)

Can somebody please reduce the image sizes - it's a real PITA having to scroll across the screen to read a post.

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (23 Jun 2009)

Just another thought, Adrian - are you making any attempt to remove the shavings while planing (eg by flicking the plane over so the shavings drop out) or are you just carrying on until the plane clogs?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mikey R (23 Jun 2009)

Heres mine, made from a rock maple offcut. Its still a bit rough and needs tidying up a bit:







The blade is bedded at 60 degrees, mainly becuase I cut the bed before I had a protractor, and 60 degrees is an easy 2 : 1 gradient. Otherwise I would have gone with 55 degrees.

Ive used a toothed blade for a no 9 1/2 block plane from Ray Iles. As a chip breaker isnt needed, this seemed like a good idea - it was the only thicker toothed blade I could find without spending a huge amount and a Lie-Nielsen. Its 44mm, so same width as a scrub plane.






Mine jams too, but I think thats because the mouth is too rough and narrow, and because I didnt allow enough space before the wedge. A little redesigning should fix it


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## swagman (24 Jun 2009)

adrian":1ndp00e9 said:


> swagman":1ndp00e9 said:
> 
> 
> > adrian":1ndp00e9 said:
> ...



Hi Adrian. The core problem gets back to the grooves on your toothing blade being fitted back the front. These grooves assist the direction of the wood fibers into the mouth opening.

Best advise. Put the normal blade back into this plane, and look at fitting the toothing blade into another plane that will take it with the grooves facing the front.

regards swagman.


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## bugbear (24 Jun 2009)

Paul Chapman":x0saf9in said:


> I'm still rather baffled by your problem, but coming to the conclusion that a bevel-down toothed blade with modified cap iron like I use is a better option than a bevel-up plane with a toothed blade.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (24 Jun 2009)

bugbear":stpw5vvt said:


> I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.



I think this is what Karl has in one of his wooden planes.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (24 Jun 2009)

Paul Chapman":uskrgevo said:


> bugbear":uskrgevo said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect the best option is bevel down, no cap iron.
> ...



Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here






Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (24 Jun 2009)

Karl":2m2pkb6d said:


> Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here



Hi Karl,

Thanks for posting that picture. How do you find the performance of the bevel-down toothed blade in the wooden jack compared with the bevel-up toothed blade in the Veritas you referred to earlier?

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mikey R (24 Jun 2009)

Karl":3erdzcid said:


> Can somebody please reduce the image sizes - it's a real PITA having to scroll across the screen to read a post.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Karl



I agree - 1728px × 1296px is too big for most monitors I think!


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## Karl (24 Jun 2009)

Paul Chapman":1fsgz2cw said:


> Karl":1fsgz2cw said:
> 
> 
> > Yes - in my Philly Jack, as seen here
> ...



Tricky one Paul.

The jack gives a good cut and has significantly less clogging, but is tiring work for heavy stock removal.

The BU blade is better quality, thicker and removes more stock quicker than the wooden jack. But this clogging problem is a real issue - you can spend just as long cleaning the blade and plane of debris as you can planing.

In use I don't have a favourite. I go for whichever is sharp at the time!!!

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (24 Jun 2009)

Thanks, Karl, that's interesting. I tried out Deneb's LN with bevel-up toothed blade at West Dean again this year and I'm convinced that my bevel-down blade with modified cap iron in the old Record #7 works just as well, if not better, so I'm quite happy with what I've got.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Karl (24 Jun 2009)

I might do a little comparative test - the woody & a record no5 with the bevel down blade v's the LV LAS with the BU blade.

Cheers

Karl


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## Paul Chapman (24 Jun 2009)

Good idea, Karl  I'd be interested to see the results of that.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## MIGNAL (24 Jun 2009)

Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.






It doesn't clog but I find the blade (at 25 TPI) a little too fine. It was clearly intended for the preparation of the substrate in veneering.
I have ordered one of the coarser Kunz blades.


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## Mikey R (25 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":3nxkuvxm said:


> Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.



Hi Mignal, thats a nice plane! Is the sole a separate piece laminated to the body? What species did you use?

Also, could you post a copy of the mouth of that plane? I think Ive got mine far too tight, which is whats causing the jamming.


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## bugbear (25 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":e4o58f6i said:


> Here's my Puegeot blade, bevel down at 62 degrees.



Since you carefully say "blade" do I gather the plane is self-made?

BugBear


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## MIGNAL (25 Jun 2009)

Yes, it's homebrewed. Bubinga with Rosewood sole. The mouth is quite wide - some 3 mm's from the edge of the blade to the edge of the mouth - blade in situ of course.
Mike - that Ray Iles blade looks quite coarse at around 10 TPI ? I guess it's going to produce thickish strings and remove material fairly quickly. Years ago I made a toothed blade out of a small file, intended for a small violinmakers thumb plane. I simply filed a few grooves with a needle file and then rehardened the blade. It's still around somewhere. Probably about 6 TPI!! It actually worked and worked quite well if my memory serves.


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## Mikey R (25 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":13urns4w said:


> Yes, it's homebrewed. Bubinga with Rosewood sole. The mouth is quite wide - some 3 mm's from the edge of the blade to the edge of the mouth - blade in situ of course.
> Mike - that Ray Iles blade looks quite coarse at around 10 TPI ? I guess it's going to produce thickish strings and remove material fairly quickly. Years ago I made a toothed blade out of a small file, intended for a small violinmakers thumb plane. I simply filed a few grooves with a needle file and then rehardened the blade. It's still around somewhere. Probably about 6 TPI!! It actually worked and worked quite well if my memory serves.



Thanks! I'll try opening out the mouth this weekend, and see how I get on.

I will be using it as a rough toothed jack for stock removal on some fairly messy elm, so dont need especially fine teeth. With a normal bench plane I cant plane the board at all, it just tears up and jams, which is why I wanted to try a toothed balde at a higher angle.


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## bugbear (25 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":380zqdq5 said:


> Yes, it's homebrewed. Bubinga with Rosewood sole.



With a body as hard as bubinga, why a separate sole?

(although a search revealed Bubinga isn't a dalbergia, which I thought it was)

BugBear


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## Mikey R (25 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":23az6ii1 said:


> Mike - that Ray Iles blade looks quite coarse at around 10 TPI ?



Quick calculation, 13 teeth over 44mm gives ~ 7.5 TPI 

And I'll need to grind quite a camber into it once the plane is performing, it should make quite a nice plane for scrubbing!


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## bugbear (26 Jun 2009)

Mikey R":312c26go said:


> MIGNAL":312c26go said:
> 
> 
> > Mike - that Ray Iles blade looks quite coarse at around 10 TPI ?
> ...



I'm not sure trying to exploit cambering AND toothed blade will work - I think each toothed blade is (in effect) a micro cambered blade already.

I THINK the benefit of cambering is a fully released shaving, and a toothed blade already gives (lots of!) these.

BugBear


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## Mikey R (26 Jun 2009)

bugbear":1ptxk1yv said:
 

> I'm not sure trying to exploit cambering AND toothed blade will work - I think each toothed blade is (in effect) a micro cambered blade already.
> 
> I THINK the benefit of cambering is a fully released shaving, and a toothed blade already gives (lots of!) these.
> 
> BugBear



Thanks BugBear, I see your point. I'll see how I get on with the blade as is, and see what kind of surface I get.

Ive got the weekend to myself and cant wait to get out into the yard after work!


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## Paul Chapman (26 Jun 2009)

bugbear":7vq8y306 said:


> I'm not sure trying to exploit cambering AND toothed blade will work - I think each toothed blade is (in effect) a micro cambered blade already.
> 
> I THINK the benefit of cambering is a fully released shaving, and a toothed blade already gives (lots of!) these.



I agree - cambered blades and toothed blades perform different functions. I'd hone it straight otherwise you won't get the full benefit from it.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mikey R (26 Jun 2009)

Ok, opening the mouth helped quite a bit, but the shavings are still getting stuck - as the shavings curl off of the blade, they jam up against the wedge.

Ive been looking at traditional European style planes, and they have a lot more space to allow shavings to exit. Think I'll start again, I should have enough maple left for another go.


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## bugbear (26 Jun 2009)

Mikey R":2b0n8iy1 said:


> Ok, opening the mouth helped quite a bit, but the shavings are still getting stuck - as the shavings curl off of the blade, they jam up against the wedge.



Perhaps a little reduction and/or streamlining on your wedge and wedge-bar?

BugBear


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## Mikey R (26 Jun 2009)

bugbear":3ixyrxsc said:


> Mikey R":3ixyrxsc said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, opening the mouth helped quite a bit, but the shavings are still getting stuck - as the shavings curl off of the blade, they jam up against the wedge.
> ...



I think the wedge is way too thick, so the bar is too far forwards, which is why theres no space for the shavings to escape. Unless I can move the bar backwards then I cant use a slimmer wedge.

Does the wedge on a normal, bar-less woodie taper down to nothing? I guess it almost does, maybe 2 or 3mm or so?

Editted to add: Ive had a look at some Kernov style planes:

http://www.crfinefurniture.com/1pages/s ... plane.html

The dimensions of the wedge dont seem too different to mine, so I can only guess its the 60 degree pitch that is closing it all up.


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## MIGNAL (26 Jun 2009)

Mines at 62 degrees and it doesn't clog up.
Why don't you ditch the cross piece and make it just like the old woodies? Less chance of any shavings getting caught. You can make the abutments as laminated pieces and shape the wedge in the same manner as the old woodies.


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## Mikey R (26 Jun 2009)

MIGNAL":1yhyngyv said:


> Mines at 62 degrees and it doesn't clog up.
> Why don't you ditch the cross piece and make it just like the old woodies? Less chance of any shavings getting caught. You can make the abutments as laminated pieces and shape the wedge in the same manner as the old woodies.



Agreed, thats what I was thinking too - I think thats kinda similar to the Philly method . I'll see what can be done with it tomorrow.

http://www.philsville.co.uk/jack_plane.htm

I'll also see if the house clearance place is open tomorrow, they often have old woodie jack planes in (in terrible condition, and they like to charge the earth becuase they are interesting). I'll just have a look at how the wedge is cut, should give me a good idea of what to shoot for.


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## MIGNAL (26 Jun 2009)

http://linuxplane.awardspace.com/

Should give you some idea but getting hold of an old wedge from a woodie is not a bad idea.


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## bugbear (2 Feb 2011)

A bump for this thread, and "new information"

http://anthonyhaycabinetmaker.wordpress ... -our-time/

read the guy's background and credentials....

BugBear


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## Paul Chapman (2 Feb 2011)

Thanks for that link, BB. Some very interesting stuff.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## bugbear (3 Feb 2011)

Paul Chapman":cpzgrnoc said:


> Thanks for that link, BB. Some very interesting stuff.
> 
> Cheers :wink:
> 
> Paul



Nothing new under the sun, eh?

BugBear


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## Handrubbed (7 Feb 2011)

Please forgive me not reading this thread in it entirety, but I wanterd to add that Lie-Nielsen does make toothed irons for many of their bevel-down planes. Mr. Chapman seemed to mention that they had them only for the block plane category.


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## bugbear (8 Feb 2011)

Handrubbed":25pu5p39 said:


> Please forgive me not reading this thread in it entirety, but I wanterd to add that Lie-Nielsen does make toothed irons for many of their bevel-down planes. Mr. Chapman seemed to mention that they had them only for the block plane category.



The thread is old, and some of the information isn't current.

BugBear


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