# 1st metal lathe questions, recommendations, advice please.



## Togalosh

Evening Gents,

I am getting more into metalworking for both my workshop & furniture making & am toying with getting my 1st metalwork lathe & need your sage advice please. I have basic metalwork skills but almost none in turning metal. I am in danger of buying something more expensive than what is sensible or something that is rubbish. 

I used a Clarke CL430 the other day to turn down an offcut of a 25mm lead screw (with which to make a wagon vice). The owner said he really liked it but there was a lot of slack/play (?) on the lead of the handwheel that moves the tool across the bed ..& the finish was rougher than I'd expected (but that could be my fault). Is this play/slack to be expected/ acceptable for the price or fixable ? (The owner is a clued up man & would surely fix the issue it if was possible). 

Are the Clarke CL250M, CL300M / Axi' C2A, SC2 worse or is there another machine you could recommend ? The CL430 is £838 which is a lot of money - I cannot really justify that expense for the quantity of work I'll do but I don't want something inaccurate. I could wait on here or Ebay for an old one to come up for sale.

I plan to mainly turn brass (for furniture hardware) but mild (?) steel & stainless every now & then when being inventive (I get a lot of brass parts & useful stainless odds & sods from work that are destined for the bin)

As ever, any help/ advice would be greatly appreciated.

Togs


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## Phil Pascoe

I think the consensus is not to buy things with "Clarke" written on them, other than compressors which don't seem to be bad.


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## marcros

some interesting thought on a thread that I started here metalworking-lathe-t93870.html?hilit=%20lathe 

application not dissimilar


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## woodpig

Old English machines like Myford and Boxford are well made provided you know what to look for in a used machine. A good Myford though is likely to cost more than an import so most likely outside your budget. This leaves imported machines from China. They are all pretty similar but I'd buy from someone like Warco who have been selling these things for a long time. My only real concern with modern hobby lathes (from the Far East) are the circuit boards that provide the variable speed drive. There have been many threads on some forums about component failure albeit mainly on milling machines but also on lathes. Luckily my own 8 X 14" lathe has a geared head so no worries there but if I had to buy another I may opt for something like the 920 sold by Chester as the speed is changed by slipping belts, no Chinese electrics to go wrong. Whilst belt slipping may prove to be a bit of a chore you could at some point fit an inverter to provide a somewhat more reliable variable speed? Just my own thoughts.
It's a shame that geared heads have disappeared on hobby machines but I guess circuit boards are cheaper to make. I think you first job is to work out exactly what size machine you want and then see which suppliers can provide it within budget. Sadly some charge delivery on top but shop around because some include delivery in the price. Good luck with your purchase and let's see some pictures when you get it!


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## RogerP

woodpig":1vcn8ux4 said:


> ............ Luckily my own 8 X 14" lathe has a geared head so no worries there but if I had to buy another I may opt for something like the 920 sold by Chester as the speed is changed by slipping belts, no Chinese electrics to go wrong. Whilst belt slipping may prove to be a bit of a chore you could at some point fit an inverter to provide a somewhat more reliable variable speed? ........


A vote for the old 920 lathe, rebadged by many sellers but mine just says "Made in China"  Tough and not much to go wrong once you've initially fettled it. I have thought about an inverter/3 phase motor to give variable speed drive but somehow don't think I'll get around to it.

Same as this, except mine's green and 230v ...
http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000


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## woodpig

There may be others but this is the only 920 type I've seen in recent years in the UK.
Depending on exact spec they may be also be called 918 or 919.

http://www.chesterhobbystore.com/920-lathe-3968-p.asp

The other nice thing about this type of lathe is the built in Norton style gearbox for thread cutting, very handy.


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## Jamesc

+1 with Woodpigs comments.

I too would stick with a modern machine for your first lathe (I now have 4 - don't ask), older machines can be a project in themselves and need a fair bit of work and knowledge (readily available on the internet) to get them working at their best.
Pretty much all modern hobby machines come from the far east, many from the same factory, however all are not equal and it depends on the supplier as to the quality you get (there have been several excellent threads on this board which expand on this).
My advice would be to take your time and trust your instincts. you tried a Clarke machine and were unhappy with it - you were right.
I would suggest checking out suppliers with showrooms and going to see the machines you are considering and try them out. The likes of Warco, Arc Eurotrade, and Axminster Power Tools spring to mind. You may like to consider going on Axminster Power Tools engineering course, it would give you a day to try the machines at length and I am sure if you talked to them first you could arrange to use the actual machine you are considering.


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## woodpig

I've done a quick search and there are several other companies that sell belt driven lathes without variable speed very similar to the 920 but with completely different model numbers!


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## Wildman

a lot of chinese machines have too high a low gear, no backgear, no reverse to leadscrew so Left hand threads are problematic. Backlash should be possible to minimise even if it means making a new "nut", but of course if you have no reverse then LH threads are a no no. If you just reverse the motor the chuck will unscrew whilst you are cutting. I suspect a secondhand british machine of better quality can be had for the price of a new chinese one.


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## Spindle

Hi

As a first step I'd advise you to determine the swing and distance between centres that you feel you will need, (then add anything up to 50% :wink: ).

Once you've done this you can refine your searching.

I have two lathes from the far east, (one gear head and one electronic variable), and both have been fine - you can be lucky with a second hand European lathe but it's a chance you take, whereas with a new import you have all the normal legal protection.

In your circumstance I'd go for a new import if I could afford it.

Regards Mick


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## RogerP

Wildman":2efjun6s said:


> ......... I suspect a secondhand british machine of better quality can be had for the price of a new chinese one.


Not that I can find on the web, the cheapest are about £1500 old and tatty. Plus (and it can be a major problem for some of us) they need to be collected, so its lifting kit a couple of helpers, a large van and probably all day and many miles. Buy a new Chinese one (from a decent supplier) and it's delivered and placed in your workshop.

I'd love to have found a British machine for what I paid for my Chinese 9 x 20 but I'm afraid I'd still be waiting instead of machining.

That's not say that if you're lucky you can't find one just round the corner in beautiful condition going for a song - it does happen.


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## woodpig

Wildman":2stgz3hz said:


> If you just reverse the motor the chuck will unscrew whilst you are cutting.


Most Chinese Lathes have the chuck bolted on with three socket screws so you can happily run them in reverse.

I run mine in forward/reverse when single point thread cutting to save disengaging the half nut. :wink:
Many hobby Lathes advise doing this if (like mine) they're not fitted with thread dials.


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## woodpig

RogerP":10k4d6f2 said:


> Not that I can find on the web, the cheapest are about £1500 old and tatty. Plus (and it can be a major problem for some of us) they need to be collected, so its lifting kit a couple of helpers, a large van and probably all day and many miles. Buy a new Chinese one (from a decent supplier) and it's delivered and placed in your workshop.
> 
> I'd love to have found a British machine for what I paid for my Chinese 9 x 20 but I'm afraid I'd still be waiting instead of machining.
> 
> That's not say that if you're lucky you can't find one just round the corner in beautiful condition going for a song - it does happen.



Very true.


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## chipmunk

I'm happy to admit that I bought a Myford ML7 because I knew no better but I think I was quite lucky because I bought from a dealer - Bede Tools who sell on ebay. Incidentally Barry at Bede Tools was brilliant about shipping the lathe to me at cost and it arrived perfect. He strapped it down with clamps to the pallet and I just posted them back to him - fantastic service but the lathe itself needed some work and is pretty worn.

My advice would be, if you want to buy second hand, then weigh up whether to buy an unfashionable cheaper British maker against the availability of spares - it's very comforting that most Myford, Boxford and Colchester spares as well as the newer Far Eastern lathes are just a click away but that comes at a cost. Some say Boxfords are better value but I am not entirely convinced that they come out much cheaper than Myfords although you probably do get more lathe for your money.

Based upon my experience though I think I'll probably end up buying new next time and that almost certainly means Far East manufacture. I bought a new metal bandsaw and have just bought a second hand Taiwanese mill.

But there are lots of positives that newer Far East lathes have over my beloved old and trusty Myford. Wider headstock bore than 2MT, a modern motor with NVR that doesn't blow the RCD every time it's switched on with one in-circuit (my only solution will be to ultimately replace the motor), sealed for life bearings that don't leave the swarf tray swimming in hydraulic oil, backgears that don't require you to fumble with a cut-down allen key to mesh and unmesh a sliding key covered in mucky oil and just 6 speeds including back gear modes.

My old ML7 does turn beautifully however with sharp HSS tooling - MS, Silver Steel, brass and Ali. Only tried Stainless 304 - it is hard but no real problem and the finish is fine with HSS.

HTH
Jon


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## niagra

I bought my Myford ML10 from http://www.myford-lathes.com. One man selling mainly Myford stuff from his home. Mine is in nice condition and cost about £1000 including gears, tooling etc. If you're happy with the slightly smaller ML10, rather than the more usual ML7, then you should be able to find one at a similar price I would think.

Dario


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## Keith 66

My first lathe was a Myford Super 7, a good machine but i always found it limited due to its tiny headstock bore. Myfords are also quite light & somewhat flexible. They are a modelmakers lathe & Myfords marketing was brilliant! It was replaced with a Bantam 2000 (im lucky in having 3 phase power). This proved to be a bit of a lemon being badly worn & in need of new headstock bearings. I was lucky to just about get my money back when i sold it to a dealer. I pity the bloke who ended up with it!
It in turn was replaced with a Harrison 140 that came from the college where i worked, fully tooled & with a known history & its original paperwork & factory test chart.
This one is a keeper!
A Boxford is far stronger & more capable than a Myford & only marginally bigger, there are lots of other makes too. I would take any British, Continental or American machine over a chinese one any day. The college replaced the Harrison with a Warco & it was truly dreadful, the school where i now work has an Optimum, this though better has parts made from some sort of lead alloy. As for clarkes they are worse.
People also make much of spares availability. In truth you shouldnt need them, but try buying parts for a Colchester or Harrison they are eye wateringly expensive!
Good sites for lathes are ,www.lathes.co.uk, and , http://www.homeworkshop.org, Keep looking!


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## Togalosh

Gentlemen, thanks for all your help. I am glad I asked.

So, it's British or European if I can find & afford one, the Axi' ones are Chinese but just might be ok, Chinese might be ok but probably not - double check 1st, avoid Clarke. The Axi engineering day is a very good suggestion.

The 920 looks the part, it's at the upper end of what I had in mind to pay but I don't know most of what the specs refer to.. the Myfords look like behemoths !!..

I have reread this thread over & over, there's lots of tangents/websites to go off on.. I will keep you posted on what I get. 

Thanks again.
Togs


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## Togalosh

Evening Gents,

How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, £200 ?

Anything more expensive is just an extravagance (for the time it'll be used)...but to waste £200 is never clever.. what d'you think?

Togs


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## Cheshirechappie

Togalosh":14jmwis6 said:


> Evening Gents,
> 
> How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, £200 ?
> 
> Anything more expensive is just an extravagance (for the time it'll be used)...but to waste £200 is never clever.. what d'you think?
> 
> Togs



Go for it - I doubt you'll find anything of remotely similar quality for £200, which in lathe terms is loose change. It's a smallish modelmaker's lathe, but if it has the capacity for the work you want to do, it won't disappoint, especially as a 'starter' lathe. Have a read of lathes.co.uk and see what you think.


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## Wildman

there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.


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## Togalosh

Hello Cheshirechappie,

A quick look on lathes UK link shows that there are no parts readily available (no real surprise there as it was made 1937-43 !)..but goes on to say that most are so badly worn as to be 'little better than a rotary file'. My optimism is waning a little.. but I love the look of it !..oh hell.

What wears so much that it can't be repaired - the bed ? Surely bearings can be replaced (or is that complete naivety ? ), will gears will be difficult to get if it is them ?.. what do I look for when I view it?

It also shows a few modifications people have done.. I am in 2 minds about that but sentimentality is not for engineering.


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## Togalosh

Wildman":2ub4ftp8 said:


> there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.



Hhhmm?? thanks Wildman.. I hate Ebaying but when needs must.

I can only see a hulk-like Gromatic.. that is a whoppa. I would be sectioned by SWMBO if I brought that home.


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## chaoticbob

Togalosh":3qg2h6r1 said:


> Evening Gents,
> 
> How about a Myford ML4, 70 yrs old, 1 careful hobbyist owner, face plates, chucks, lots of gears n stuff, ...



Hmm, so the lathe's 70 years old, one owner, so s/he's say 90ish? My guess is that that this is a widow selling off late hubby's tools - you may be onto a good thing there, but if my guess is right, she probably isn't really in a position to judge the condition of the machine. As you say, wear is likely to be on the bed (I don't think Myford beds would be hardened back then) and / or on the headstock bearings. Neither would be easy or cheap to correct - the bed would need regrinding and because the headstock would I think have plain (rather than roller) bearings, it's not just a matter of whacking out the bearings and replacing them - you would need to have new bearings made. It might add up to well over the cost of the machine! On the other hand it may be a peach - but personally I wouldn't take the risk unless you are confident that you can assess the machine hands on. 
There's no doubt that a _good_ used Harrison, Boxford, whatever outclasses a new import, but again you need to be confident that you can assess the machine. Sometimes people put a lick of paint on so it looks spiffy, but when it comes down to it ... well, you've guessed how I know. 
I wouldn't discount the Chinese offerings. My main gripe with my Chinese (Warco) mill, which has a variable speed brushed motor, is that the torque at the lowest advertised speed (50 rpm) is close to zero. I imagine the same is true of similar claims made for small lathes with brushed DC motors, but if you're thinking to make smallish parts that shouldn't be an issue as you'll be spinning them much faster than that.
Sorry if this has turned into a bit of an essay!
I'm drooling over the Dutch lathe, sadly I _do_ have space for it, and it's likely to be a snip, what with all that tooling - - hmm - wife's birthday next week, I was going to get her an iPad, but ... Nah, not going to work is it?
Robin


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## blackrodd

Wildman":3vyilf2o said:


> there is a dutch machine on feebay at the moment that will barely make £400 yet it is the dogs doodahs if I had the space I'd buy it myself. Finishes at the crack of dawn tomorrow. It is in Swansea.




http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/161947565626? ... EBIDX%3AIT
:shock: :shock: 
Rodders


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## DTR

Togalosh":2yj7cuf3 said:


> Hello Cheshirechappie,
> 
> A quick look on lathes UK link shows that there are no parts readily available (no real surprise there as it was made 1937-43 !)..but goes on to say that most are so badly worn as to be 'little better than a rotary file'. My optimism is waning a little.. but I love the look of it !..oh hell.
> 
> What wears so much that it can't be repaired - the bed ? Surely bearings can be replaced (or is that complete naivety ? ), will gears will be difficult to get if it is them ?.. what do I look for when I view it?.



I think Tony's assessment of ML4s is a bit unfair. Some members here are probably sick of me waxing lyrical about my ML4, but it really did serve me well. I only sold it because I stumbled upon an ML7 that I couldn't pass up. 

Some ML4s had a spindle nose that matches the ML7, so chucks and faceplates are interchangeable. ML7 change gears and their studs are definitely compatible. I've also seen several ML4s fitted with ML7 cross slide feedscrews. To be fair, if you have access to another lathe (or a helpful model engineer) you could probably adapt a lot of ML7 parts to fit.


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## DTR

A case in point:

http://www.lathes.co.uk/myford-ml2-rebuild/


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## woodpig

That's a nice looking ML2.


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## Keith 66

I was given an ML4 some years ago, its headstock was rattly to say the least, On pulling the spindle out i found it heavily scored & bearing worn badly.
My father in law suggested a novel repair he had learnt when on national service.
I put the spindle in the Super 7 & got rid of the scoring with strips of emery, in the meantime the two knackered bronze bearings were pulled out. These turned out to be in one piece with a longditudinal split down one side to allow a small amount of adjustment. They were degreased & then heated up & a goodly layer of plumbers solder applied to the bores. The high spots were scraped off with a bearing scraper made from an old triangular file & the lot reassembled.
It was run in for a few hours with plenty of oil & much to my surprise turned out to be quite accurate & capable of making parts with a decent finish.
I sold it to a friend with the advice ringing in his ears, "never let the oilers run out!". Five years later it was still running after plenty of use & was then sold on again. The next owner tried turning something far too big for it & broke the headstock casting terminally. Its now a mooring sinker!


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## Togalosh

Well Gents, I am the owner of a late model ML4.. & so far I think it's a runner.

The very nice & very knowledgeable man selling it says that it was his Dad's machine that he learnt on & has always been in the family. He now has an ex-school Boxford so needs the space - a great looking one that is too. I asked about wear & I was told that there's very little & that when the Dad had passed away in the early 90's he had the bed professionally re-ground ! The Dad was an engineer & repaired a lead screw's female thread in the tool holding post by using an insert & gave me another insert as a spare. There is no rattling/play when I grabbed & tried to wobble the chuck.. however the motor doesn't sound too happy but it hasn't been used for a year & it doesn't sound terminally ill. 

I got 30-45min lathe basics & very specific do's & don'ts. I saw a lead screw he'd turned from a 35-40mm bar (now on an end vice) so I am confident the machine can easily cope with the work I want it for. I can't wait to get it to my workshop & get it installed !

Photo's to follow asap.


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## blackrodd

Well done on you're new tool, I'm looking forward to the pics and stuff!
Rodders


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## DTR

Congrats


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## Togalosh

Well Gents.. here she is : 








What do you recon?


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## blackrodd

Well, looks OK to me and most if not all the chucks and tools are there too, and it seems bits are adaptable from the ML7, I read.
It's tidier than my Tyzack ML4, I have no wheels or threading capabilities and one bearing cap is cracked But it was next to nothing and got me a start, It became available after I'd bid on unimat SL which as it's smaller I use more. 
The main thing is are YOU happy? Are you metal lathe newby or have used them before?
Suggest Check the motor bearings, maybe that's the noise source.
I'll Look out for Showing you're first test piece, Regards Rodders


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## dickm

Just missed buying one of those for £12-10s-0d. But that was in 1969.................

Seriously, that looks like a real gem that has been cared for during quite an easy life. But what is the role of that ginormous red handle??


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## Cheshirechappie

Togalosh, that looks to be a good 'un. The reground bed is a very good sign, and if the headstock was overhauled at the same time, you have about as near as you can get to a new lathe. One of the pitfalls of lathe buying is that they're of limited use without a range of tooling, but you seem to have the basics - three-jaw self-centering chuck, four-jaw independent (a very versatile piece of kit), steadies, tailstock drill chuck, faceplate, screwcutting change gears, hard and soft centres. All you need are some cutting tools and you're all set.

You probably know this already, but Camden Miniature Steam Services do a very impressive range of books aimed at the model engineer, so if you need a reference book or two, that would be my first port of call.


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## Togalosh

blackrodd":oh6jkl22 said:


> Well, looks OK to me and most if not all the chucks and tools are there too, and it seems bits are adaptable from the ML7, I read.
> It's tidier than my Tyzack ML4, I have no wheels or threading capabilities and one bearing cap is cracked But it was next to nothing and got me a start, It became available after I'd bid on unimat SL which as it's smaller I use more.
> The main thing is are YOU happy? Are you metal lathe newby or have used them before?
> Suggest Check the motor bearings, maybe that's the noise source.
> I'll Look out for Showing you're first test piece, Regards Rodders



Hiya Rodders, I am chuffed to bits ! my I love old tools, machines ... buildings, things & people (within reason) because they are great quality & stylish. I now know that if what I am doing on it isn't working then it's me - not it. I even like the paint (& nail varnish ?) job.

I am a novice newbie. I used a metal lathe for the 1st time a few weeks ago (for an hour) to turn down an off-cut lead screw for a DIY wagon vice.. hence my starting this thread.

Yes, I suspect the bearings too & might look at them myself but I know a good local firm who could look at it if necessary.. a 70 year old motor !..it was not bolted down when the seller ran it & it was on a loose board.

As for showing you guys what I've made.. hmm.. ok, as long as you promise not to laugh.


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## Togalosh

dickm":2n1f8j7l said:


> Just missed buying one of those for £12-10s-0d. But that was in 1969.................
> 
> Seriously, that looks like a real gem that has been cared for during quite an easy life. But what is the role of that ginormous red handle??



Hiya Dickm, was that expensive in 1969 ? I suspect it wasn't that cheap. 

The handwheel was made up to replace the small handle on the very right end.. the seller made it for better control when turning in small increments.


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## Togalosh

Cheshirechappie":y1zn9efr said:


> Togalosh, that looks to be a good 'un. The reground bed is a very good sign, and if the headstock was overhauled at the same time, you have about as near as you can get to a new lathe. One of the pitfalls of lathe buying is that they're of limited use without a range of tooling, but you seem to have the basics - three-jaw self-centering chuck, four-jaw independent (a very versatile piece of kit), steadies, tailstock drill chuck, faceplate, screwcutting change gears, hard and soft centres. All you need are some cutting tools and you're all set.
> 
> You probably know this already, but Camden Miniature Steam Services do a very impressive range of books aimed at the model engineer, so if you need a reference book or two, that would be my first port of call.



Hiya CC, there are 6-8 weirdly ground tools in that tray & I was going to visit our resident old genius CDT man upstairs (who has the Clarke lathe) to see what he recommends. He's bound to know all about Myfords (he teaches 6yr olds to weld, turn & make boats, engines, music etc). 

All advice is very welcome & appreciated as I know next to nothing but I have Amateur lathe, L. Sparey on order. The seller said it has this ML4 in it's 1st few pages. I will check out Camden MSS.

I have a lot to learn.. pity I am 30yrs too late to have my uncle show me what to do. He & my Grandad were motor racers & engineers.. it's not genetic.


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## DTR

Togalosh":12pk3ety said:


> [I have Amateur lathe, L. Sparey on order. The seller said it has this ML4 in it's 1st few pages. I will check out Camden MSS.



That's a great book, can't recommend it enough. There's no ML4 in my copy; most of the photos are either an ML7 or a Drummond B-type. Having said that, there's been many printings of that book so things may have changed.


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## Rhyolith

+1 for the ML4 beginners club  I am the proud owner of DTR's old one which I greatly look forward to setting up in the summer (currently separated from it  ). 



Myford ML4 by Ryolith, on Flickr


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## blackrodd

If I've done this right, £12.10/- in 1969, equates to £193.84p
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bill ... -1900.html

Rodders

PS, Scrolling down the page, there's some interesting price comparisonsat the bottom, Bread petrol etc.


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## dickm

blackrodd":2cy009rs said:


> If I've done this right, £12.10/- in 1969, equates to £193.84p
> http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bill ... -1900.html
> 
> Rodders
> 
> PS, Scrolling down the page, there's some interesting price comparisonsat the bottom, Bread petrol etc.


Interesting. I usually guesstimate that prices from then need multiplied by something between 10 & 20 to get modern prices, which is what your suggesting. At the time I was certainly cross to miss it!


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## Togalosh

Hiya Rhyolith, 
That looks very smart in British racing green ..& very good photography too.

I see that you have a different belt & pulley set-up. Mine has 1 belt with an adjustable pulley in-between machine & motor to adjust the belt tension. Are your pulleys on the plummer block the same size as on the machine ? (that question most likely shows up my engineering ineptitude). How do you adjust the belt tension ? What size is that big pulley ?.. I don't know what the rotating speeds I need to work it out (& don't have enough fingers & toes to work it out even if I knew).

Also the copper tube on the lead screw ? Is that for protection against something? Are there any other modifications ?

You say you are looking forward to setting it up - does that mean you haven't used it yet ? If you have did you like it ?

Togs


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## Doris

Togalosh":3rfj0q2x said:


> Also the copper tube on the lead screw ? Is that for protection against something? Are there any other modifications ?



It protects the lead screw against falling swarf.

Your lathe Togalosh has an interesting colour scheme never seen one that colour before....at least its not vomit green.


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## DTR

Togalosh":wofr3rsa said:


> Hiya Rhyolith,
> That looks very smart in British racing green ..& very good photography too.
> 
> I see that you have a different belt & pulley set-up. Mine has 1 belt with an adjustable pulley in-between machine & motor to adjust the belt tension. Are your pulleys on the plummer block the same size as on the machine ? (that question most likely shows up my engineering ineptitude). How do you adjust the belt tension ? What size is that big pulley ?.. I don't know what the rotating speeds I need to work it out (& don't have enough fingers & toes to work it out even if I knew).
> 
> Also the copper tube on the lead screw ? Is that for protection against something? Are there any other modifications ?
> 
> Togs



The speeds are worked out with simple ratios. The motor runs (in theory) at 1440 rpm. The motor pulley is 2" diameter, driving the large 8" pulley. This gives an 8:2 ratio, therefore the large pulley (and the countershaft it connects to) runs at 360 rpm. 

The stepped pulleys on the countershaft and lathe spindle give three different ratios... 1:2, 1:1 and 2:1. With the countershaft running at 360 rpm, the the three lathe spindle speeds will be 720 rpm, 360 rpm and 180 rpm. 

The lathe also has a backgear that can be switched in, giving a further 6:1 ratio. That's another three spindle speeds of 120 rpm, 60 rpm and 30 rpm. 

I hope some of that waffle makes sense....

Edit: can't remember if the motor speed is 1440 or 1420, but the principle is the same


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## Rhyolith

Thanks for answering DTR  Because I have no idea on most of that as of yet.

Its had a photo shoot, but nothing else with me so far as I did not have time to set it up before going to Wales (where I am now). I will have a lot of time in the the summer to play around with it, and am looking forward to that  First thing I would like to try is thread cutting.


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## Togalosh

Doris":ilzvzlkt said:


> Togalosh":ilzvzlkt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also the copper tube on the lead screw ? Is that for protection against something? Are there any other modifications ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It protects the lead screw against falling swarf.
> 
> Your lathe Togalosh has an interesting colour scheme never seen one that colour before....at least its not vomit green.
Click to expand...


Does your "interesting" mean the same as my "naff" by any chance ? Now I see the BRG version I am not so taken with mine but I like it nevertheless.

Swarf - of course. Thanks


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## Togalosh

DTR":1fpz1r6c said:


> Togalosh":1fpz1r6c said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hiya Rhyolith,
> That looks very smart in British racing green ..& very good photography too.
> 
> I see that you have a different belt & pulley set-up. Mine has 1 belt with an adjustable pulley in-between machine & motor to adjust the belt tension. Are your pulleys on the plummer block the same size as on the machine ? (that question most likely shows up my engineering ineptitude). How do you adjust the belt tension ? What size is that big pulley ?.. I don't know what the rotating speeds I need to work it out (& don't have enough fingers & toes to work it out even if I knew).
> 
> Also the copper tube on the lead screw ? Is that for protection against something? Are there any other modifications ?
> 
> Togs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The speeds are worked out with simple ratios. The motor runs (in theory) at 1440 rpm. The motor pulley is 2" diameter, driving the large 8" pulley. This gives an 8:2 ratio, therefore the large pulley (and the countershaft it connects to) runs at 360 rpm.
> 
> The stepped pulleys on the countershaft and lathe spindle give three different ratios... 1:2, 1:1 and 2:1. With the countershaft running at 360 rpm, the the three lathe spindle speeds will be 720 rpm, 360 rpm and 180 rpm.
> 
> The lathe also has a backgear that can be switched in, giving a further 6:1 ratio. That's another three spindle speeds of 120 rpm, 60 rpm and 30 rpm.
> 
> I hope some of that waffle makes sense....
> 
> Edit: can't remember if the motor speed is 1440 or 1420, but the principle is the same
Click to expand...


No waffle & perfect sense.. so the countershaft pulleys are the same. 

(Well, I say perfect sense.. how the hell does 1:2 & 2:1 give different speeds if the pulleys are the same just on opposite sides?.. I will await the book or google it.)

edit: derr.. I just worked it out - I should think more before asking.


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## Togalosh

First thing I would like to try is thread cutting.[/quote said:


> That is jumping in at the deep end isn't it ? ..or have you got lathe experience ?
> 
> Please post more photo's of the pulley set up when you get it set up. Talking of setting it up; the seller of mine told me an easy way to test for twist when bolting it down (place a round bar in the chuck & set a dial indicator on it, if the needle moves it's twisting)..& bolt it through a metal tray to catch the oil & swarf.
> 
> I was surprised that something so solid would twist. (sorry if I am teach granny..)


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## DTR

Togalosh":37lvr9g3 said:


> Talking of setting it up; the seller of mine told me an easy way to test for twist when bolting it down (place a round bar in the chuck & set a dial indicator on it, if the needle moves it's twisting)..& bolt it through a metal tray to catch the oil & swarf.
> 
> I was surprised that something so solid would twist. (sorry if I am teach granny..)



+1, this is a very wise way of setting up. It's described in detail in _The Amateur's Lathe_. When the needle starts deflecting, you stick shims under the foot until you can tighten down without any deflection. It is surprising how much a lathe can twist. This is why the ML4 and many similar lathes from that era have a single large foot; it minimises (but doesn't eliminate) the amount of twist that can be caused by bolting down. The effect is even more pronounced in lathes with seperate feet at each end.

Another way to check for twist is to use a precision spirit level at various points along the bed, the same principle as using winding sticks.


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## Harbo

I'd try making something simple to practice cutting etc before starting on thread cutting

Rod


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## Rhyolith

DTR ran me through the basics of thread cutting, and to be honest it did not seem that complicated. I may slice up some metal first just to get the feel for it, but as it several mouths away I have not really thought through the details yet.

Here is a slight better angle on the belts for you Togalosh, other than not actually being screwed down its more or less as DTR had it (I think!). 


Myford ML4 by Rhyolith, on Flickr


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## woodpig

The first job on my MW Lathe was to make a new smaller drive pulley as the lowest speed was a little high for thread cutting. Second job was to thread cut a filling adaptor for my air rifle. The first attempt didn't work as the change wheel chart on the Lathe was wrong! The second attempt using the chart in the manual worked fine though. I rarely cut threads with a single point tool though and only external ones.


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## dickm

When you get the drive set up, one worthwhile adaptation is to hinge the intermediate drive carrier and fit an over centre strut to tension it. This in effect gives you a clutch.


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## Togalosh

Rhyolith":jbx5vkgc said:


> DTR ran me through the basics of thread cutting, and to be honest it did not seem that complicated. I may slice up some metal first just to get the feel for it, but as it several mouths away I have not really thought through the details yet.
> 
> Here is a slight better angle on the belts for you Togalosh, other than not actually being screwed down its more or less as DTR had it (I think!).
> 
> 
> Myford ML4 by Rhyolith, on Flickr



Ah !.. I get it now (I am so slow sometimes.. ).. you don't have to re-tension the belt when changing between pulleys as the belt radius (if that is the term to use) doesn't change. Mine has a cone pulley on the motor shaft & a tensioning pulley (jockey wheel ??) in between. I will have to measure the cone to work out the speeds. The seller did say his Dad had it set up as yours is albeit high up as in the document on lathes.co.uk. 

So much leaning to do..so little time & grey matter to do it with.


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## Rhyolith

dickm":2z59798a said:


> When you get the drive set up, one worthwhile adaptation is to hinge the intermediate drive carrier and fit an over centre strut to tension it. This in effect gives you a clutch.


I think that has already been done on mine if I understand correctly. The entire motor assembly is on a hinge of shorts.


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## blackrodd

Rhyolith said:


> dickm said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you get the drive set up, one worthwhile adaptation is to hinge the intermediate drive carrier and fit an over
> I think that has already been done on mine if I understand correctly. The entire motor assembly is on a hinge of shorts. :shock: :shock:
Click to expand...


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## Rhyolith

blackrodd":380x4pe4 said:


> Rhyolith":380x4pe4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dickm":380x4pe4 said:
> 
> 
> 
> When you get the drive set up, one worthwhile adaptation is to hinge the intermediate drive carrier and fit an over
> I think that has already been done on mine if I understand correctly. The entire motor assembly is on a hinge of shorts. :shock: :shock:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Its DTR's set up, not mine. Though it seems pretty solid to me (as in safe).


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## DTR

The hinging motor setup on Rhyolith's ML4 is for moving and tensioning the belt only. If I've understood dickm's post correctly, you're describing something similar to the ML7's tensioning arrangement? The chap I bought my ML7 from demonstrated using the tensioning lever that way, but there was still enough drag on the belt to pull the spindle around slowly. It looked rather risky to me, I certainly wouldn't want to stick my fingers anywhere near it


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## Rhyolith

DTR":3fuof88x said:


> .....It looked rather risky to me, I certainly wouldn't want to stick my fingers anywhere near it


Yes, I can see how there could be (and probably have been!) some pretty nasty accidents with these belts. Particulary scary when looking at some of the bigger belt driven machines :shock:


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## dickm

Didn't have any problem with slippage using a hinged countershaft on the cheap copy of a cheap copy of the early Myfords that I had years ago. Obviously could happen, but if there is enough movement in the hinge to allow the belts to be completely slack and they are well guarded, it should be OK.


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