# Rob's New Workshop - I've Got Walls



## ratkinsonuk (24 Mar 2007)

Well, since my last post (https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=10203), lots has happened on my workshop, so I thought it's about time I shared the high's and lows so far.

Where I got to last time






Lots of wood arrived





And more





And some more!





First job was to get the floor built





Then I started on the walls





Quite a span to handle





The weather turned





But we had some sun





Time for the tarp to come off for the roof










Starting to come together










Ridge Beam up and rafters starting to go on





Framing finally complete





Time to add a skin, oh, and a roof





Feels cosy already 





My workbench seems a bit lonely





Not bad going on the wasteage





And then the BIG problem





At this point, it was down tools for about 5 months. One of my neighbours wasn't too happy with their new view, so the council got involved. Although I'd gone to some length to check the regs (cheers for the help Dave), they got me on one of them, so I had to go through the whole nine yards.

Although they 'normally wouldn't have passed the plans', as I'd already got the structure up, they were willing to allow me to continue, as long as I adhere to a few requisites regarding materials, colours, etc.

Anyway, off we go again - now early 2006, btw

So, with frame up and vapor barrier on, cladding was next.





And from the road





Now it's water tight, time to add some temporary electrics





And lighting





Ran out of cladding





But got some doors instead





Went with felt shingles for the roof










Facias and soffets ready to go on





Did I mention the double glazing - £100 for this lot





And £42 for this leaded one - Berty Bargain!





Oh, and got that last bit of cladding up





Time to put in some drainage shingle





And make it look a bit better





Turning to the inside, first a shiny new Consumer Unit





Starting the 1st fit electrics






























Well, that brings everything up to date.

Still quite a bit to do on the outside, including 2nd coat of Cuprinol on entire skin, facias and soffets still to be made, then guttering.

The good news is that I should be ready for heating to be installed in the next few months, which means I can finally transfer my cast iron power tools into the new shop.

There's a few more pics at http://s51.photobucket.com/albums/f355/ ... /workshop/ if you'd like to see more.


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## PowerTool (24 Mar 2007)

Looks very good,Rob  

Out of curiosity,what objection did they get you on ? (Guessing within 1 metre of boundary and not non-combustible materials ?)

Andrew


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## ratkinsonuk (24 Mar 2007)

No, that's a fairly easy one to spot coming.

I got pulled on "The structure is closer to the boundary than any existing structure", as my house is about 5 meters away from the side wall, and the shop is obviously quite a bit closer.

Rob.


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## Paul.J (24 Mar 2007)

Rob that looks brill.
Just hope the said neighbour doesn't start to complain about the noise  
Paul.J.


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## Paul Chapman (25 Mar 2007)

That's looking very nice, Rob.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Slim (25 Mar 2007)

Looking good.

I do envy these people with insulation in their workshop. :mrgreen:


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## Waka (25 Mar 2007)

Now thats a posh WS, very nice indeed.


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## mel (25 Mar 2007)

looks very good rob 
had a simular problem with my workshop {20years ago} 
councillor sticking her nose in :evil: 
out of interest my w/s is built as part of the boundry / fence 
rules i had to comply with were 
1 must be below a certain height 
2 must be a certain distance from the house 
3 must not take up more than 1/3rd of the garden 
rules have moved on since 
where its built is not in a residential area , backing on to feilds 

luckily the complainer, and councillor moved to scotland   
after sending a letter to the council , i never heard anymore of it


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## OLD (25 Mar 2007)

You may be aware of this but because you have vapour barrier on the out side of the wall instead of breathing material moisture over time could build up in your insulation one fix but not perfect one is to put v/b on the inside also .


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

Cheers Old.

Heating and condensation are very much on my mind. What is 'enough' ventilation anyway.

I've already noticed quite a build up of moisture between the cladding and the plastic VB, and now wished I'd installed some narrow shims to mount the cladding on, allowing air flow behind it. I guess the worst thing that can happen is the cladding rots in the next 5 years, and I have to replace it properly.

To tackle the problem, I've already 'negotiated' a new de-humidifier from a work colleague. Once the shell is airtight, I'll take a reading and then see what I can get the humidity levels down to. My real worry was rusting tools, rather than soggy insulation.

For heating, I'm going for 2 oil-filled radiators to keep the overnight chill off. Also, a wood burning stove to warm the place up properly. Although the stove may be complete overkill, I need a) to get rid of my waste, and b) just love the idea of it crackling away in the corner  

The doors, although hardwood, are actually for internal use (a mate didn't like the style after buying them). That means they're a thin single pane of glass, and need dealing with. At the moment, I'm thinking of a sheet of plastic sealed to the inside of the door, with a wood trim round the outside for asthetics and to keep it in place. This will create a small air gap, and although it's not exactly double-glazing, should help to reduce the heat loss.

Rob.


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## Freetochat (26 Mar 2007)

Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your workshop! By the way, looking good!


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

> ...what are the dimensions of your workshop

Approx 20' x 12'


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## ProShop (26 Mar 2007)

Nice workshop, sorry to mention this but as Old mentions I can see problems storing up later on with the plastic VB imho. Building paper would have been much better or roofing underfelt or nothing at all on the outside. Plastic sheet attracts, traps & draws moisture more than most other materials.


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

One might ask why it's listed as Vapor Barrier at ScrewFix, if it's a bad use of the product. Obviously I went down the cheap route - proper breathable membrane was much more expensive.

My intention is to stay where I am for about another 5 years, then move the whole thing to another house, so the cladding would need renewing at the point anyway (he says hastily :wink: )


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## Jake (26 Mar 2007)

That sort of vapour barrier is for the inside of the walls, to stop the warm moist air in your workshop from getting into the walls and condensing when it hits cold outside stuff like the outside of the insulation, or the cladding, or in your case the plastic sheet. 

The ideal is to have that stuff on the inside, to stop 95% of the moisture getting into the walls in the first place, the pricey breathable stuff on the outside, to allow the other 5% to move out of the wall and through to the outside while it is still in vapour phase, then it can condense on the out side of the breathable stuff, which should be well ventilated by allowing air gap between it and the cladding.

It would be a lot of work to get to that stage now, but it would be well worth while buying another lot of the green vapour barrier and putting it up on the inside of your walls to stop the moisture getting into the wall to condense on the inside face of your current plastic. I would also try to make sure that the insulation is spaced off your outer green sheet, and try to get the bottom edge of the outer green sheet is tugged away from the soleplate of your studs if possible, so that the condensation can run down the inside face of the plastic and onto the ground as much as possible, rather than onto the soleplate where it risks causing rot.


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

Thanks. Will certainly try that.

To be honest, my original thinking was that it's not worth putting anything on the inside, as it's going to end up with holes all over it, i.e. screws, cabling, etc.

Given the cost, I'll still put it up anyway, and it'll kill 2 birds with one stone, re my droopy insulation problem.

What would be really superb (Moderators listening :lol: ) is a WIKI where we could build up (parden the pun) a list of topics from start to finish on how to build the ideal workshop.

This could then be expanded to other topics, such as looking after your table saw.

What do people think?

Rob.


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## Adam (26 Mar 2007)

ratkinsonuk":2zqgly94 said:


> Although they 'normally wouldn't have passed the plans', as I'd already got the structure up, they were willing to allow me to continue, as long as I adhere to a few requisites regarding materials, colours, etc.



Interestingly, it seems they didn't pull you up on flammability of the structure, given its 1 meter from the boundary. I've deliberately sited mine 1m from the boundary to avoid any difficulties, but did they not mind? Not remember? 

Also, do you have worries about people climbing up the wall and looking in through the windows? From a security point of view? I think the white windows on the dark background rather attract attention from the road views?

How deep were the foundations? How much mix did they swallow?

Have they (the council) got involved with signing off the electrics? Under Part P?

How tall is it to the apex?

I'm seriously impressed - its looking great so far - a decent size which should give you plenty of room to work in I guess.

Adam


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## Fizzy (26 Mar 2007)

Hi ratkinsonuk

Superb build and a really comprehensive set of pics but after reading Adams comment on people climbing the wall I noticed that in one your pics that there is the address name on the wall of the house opposite. Maybe best to redo the pic with a paint program just to hide it as putting it and your profile address together would make it an easy target for someone  

Just something that I would have done to the pic but it's up to you. 

Cheers Steve


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

Cheers Adam - glad you like it.



> Interestingly, it seems they didn't pull you up on flammability of the structure, given its 1 meter from the boundary.



I think the 1 meter law is basically so you don't set fire to your neighbours property. As my shed is next to the road, this doesn't really come into play.



> Also, do you have worries about people climbing up the wall and looking in through the windows



Yes, but one of the covenants in the agreement with the council is that I errect a trellis fence along the wall, basically covering the whole of the front of the workshop. As well as that, I'll be added a plastic frosting to the glass to keep out prying eyes.



> How deep were the foundations? How much mix did they swallow?



That was the one part I didn't physically do myself, due to lack of time. My 2 builders dug out a 4'-5' trench, and backfilled with about 2' of concrete.



> Have they (the council) got involved with signing off the electrics? Under Part P?



No. The electrics, although installed by me, will be signed off by my electrician cousin, so the council shouldn't get involved.



> How tall is it to the apex?



It was about 3.5m, so well under the 4m limit. I'd like to add a small coupola, which will also help with the ventilation.



> a decent size which should give you plenty of room to work in



I delibertately designed it to allow me to swing an 8' sheet around without any problems. As you can see, there's also room for a small loft, which I'll use for storing 'stick' lumber.

Rob.


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

I see what you mean Steve.

When I uploaded the pics, I was trying to be carefull about what was shown, including car registrations, etc.

Given the likelyhood of someone malicious coming across the picture, and the fact that it's there now, I'll leave it this time but thanks for the heads-up anyway.

Rob.


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## Roger (26 Mar 2007)

Rob - since you've got so much of the outer plastic still exposed and accessible from the inside, why don't you just cut it off with a Stanlet Knife and them go ahead and insulate with the cottect VB on the inside. Any bits of the outer plastic that are left trapped between the Frame and Cladding etc. will be fine. That way you should have no problem with moisture condensing.


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

That's potentially too much air flow from the outside in, for my liking.

The cladding is effectively full of holes, the insulation not tight enough to the studding and the internal VB full of screw holes. That adds up to a drafty workshop!

I'd rather go with another VB on the inside to minimise vapor transfer, and live with the fact that the cladding could be wet next to the external plastic lining.

I'm happy the wood's going to last for some time to come, even in it's current state.

Rob.


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## Adam (26 Mar 2007)

Have you upped your building insurance to cover? I guessed my replacement cost would be 10K, i.e. 3K parts and 7K labour. 

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 741#173741

All it'd take is some dumb kid with a firework....

Adam


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## ratkinsonuk (26 Mar 2007)

I was actually doing some filing last night, and had a read through my policy.

I'm still not sure how I'm covered, if at all, but it's certainly on the list to check and make right.

There are a couple of additions that I would like to make. One is a burglar alarm, but I'm not sure if I'd really get any benefit.

The other is an emergency stop button in a couple of key places around the workshop (tablesaw and chopsaw), but I'm not sure where I can buy this and how it's installed.

Rob.


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## Freetochat (26 Mar 2007)

ratkinsonuk":37k6g915 said:


> > ...what are the dimensions of your workshop
> 
> Approx 20' x 12'



Thanks for that. It looked very big in comparison to the wall.


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## OLD (26 Mar 2007)

Roger":d3sso2ql said:


> Rob - since you've got so much of the outer plastic still exposed and accessible from the inside, why don't you just cut it off with a stanley Knife and them go ahead and insulate with the correct VB on the inside. Any bits of the outer plastic that are left trapped between the Frame and Cladding etc. will be fine. That way you should have no problem with moisture condensing.


 I agree with the above just a bit more work to put the insulation in tight new v/b on the inside closing all penetrations filling gaps in the cladding and you wont have to be thinking of replacements in a few years worth the effort in my opinion.


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## Adam (27 Mar 2007)

Some good stuff here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapour_barrier on Vapour Barriers.

Adam


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## Inspector (27 Mar 2007)

ratkinsonuk

You can make the plastic that you have up "breath" by poking lots of small holes in it. Rather than standing there for days with an awl (unless you want to work out some anger issues), one of the wallpaper scoring tools that have the little serrated wheels (like the link below) or maybe a pizza cutter with the wheel filed like a saw, will be a lot faster. The holes will let the water vapour out but not let the drafts in. Then you can put another sheet of plastic up over the insulation as recommended previously. 

Worked for a friend's shop that was like yours when he bought his home years ago.

http://www.mainstsupply.com/product.cfm/4/68/56576


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## Alex (31 Mar 2007)

Hi Everyone, Might i say excellent build ratkinson it spurred me to finally register and start posting.  I Know it's a bit cheeky putting advice in my first post but the only thing missing from this perfect build is underfloor dust extraction. You could build a purpose build extraction extension/lean to at the back. No more messing about with dust extraction pipes and space hogging extractor units in the actual shop. :lol: Alex


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## Newbie_Neil (1 Apr 2007)

Hi Alex

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers
Neil


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## Benchwayze (1 Apr 2007)

I plan to use brick, as the walls surrounding my back-yard already form one end and the side. My council will NOT allow combustible buildings within 15m of my house. (The shed that is already in the yard, right next to the utility room is okay though, as it was there before they noticed it! I guess they didn't notice it was also combustible.) ](*,) 

Regulations!


Nice workshop and may you enjoy it for years to come.

John


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## ratkinsonuk (1 Apr 2007)

Cheers Alex!

As you noticed, I've left plenty of room at the back of the workshop for 2 of the largest water butts I can find for collecting rainwater, and the obigitory outside dust extraction _bunker_.

I'll definitely be installing a new dust extraction system, but I still haven't got my head round quite how I'm going to run the duct yet. That's perhaps because I'm not 100% sure where the machines are going yet.

I don't like the thought of my nice new shop having ugly pipeworks hanging down, but I'm also worried about hidden (underfloor) pipes blocking.

Does anyone have any experience of running duct, and what the chances are of this getting blocked?


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