# Electromagnet Bench Attachment A-Level Idea - NEED OPINIONS!



## Doug_Hill1 (30 Oct 2018)

Hello, 
So I've just come across this forum and was wondering whether any of you folks would be able to fill out a short questionnaire to do with my A-Level Product Design Idea.

Sorry Mods if this isn't allowed.

*Link: https://goo.gl/forms/K0wSbc2tnuozw7Gt1
**What I have to do:
*I have to solve a problem with a product - any problem..

*Problem I have chosen:* 
Small and/or cluttered workspaces. 

*How I intend on solving: 
*I am currently thinking of creating a mechanism in which you can mount an electromagnet (old microwave transformer) into your bench which will act as a removable tool station - for example, say you want to get a bench grinder but you have a problem in the fact that you haven't got enough room on your bench to mount it permanently - this will solve that by mounting your new bench grinder on a steel plate which will sit on your bench and be magnetised down, holding it tight. Once you are finished grinding, You can turn the magnet off, releasing the plate, allowing you to hang it on the wall or elsewhere, freeing up valuable space again. 
Now, you might be thinking - "Oh won't that just slide around on the magnet?" - and yes I think you would be correct. I would probably combat this by incorporating some rubber feet on the plate or some form of mechanical lock.

I would intend this to be sold as a kit to install yourself into your bench if possible. It would come with a plate and you can buy more to add more tools to your arsenal. 

I'd love to hear your opinions on this idea and whether you have any concerns etc. 

*If you could fill out the questionnaire it would really help * 
*Link: https://goo.gl/forms/K0wSbc2tnuozw7Gt1*

If you could reply done or any questions/concerns below to keep the topic active, I'd appreciate it 
Thank You
Doug


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## flh801978 (30 Oct 2018)

Whilst the electromagnet is an idea it probably overcomplicates it
Look at a magnetic chuck for a surface grinder (eclipse brand or so)
Make a series of 6mm plates that bolt to your tools 
Place on top of the chuck turn the magnet on and your’e good to go
Turn off and swap out your tool
Would anyone buy it?
Doubt it

Ian


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## Doug_Hill1 (30 Oct 2018)

flh801978":1bqrvlck said:


> Whilst the electromagnet is an idea it probably overcomplicates it
> Look at a magnetic chuck for a surface grinder (eclipse brand or so)


Yeah - I know the idea would probably over complicate the whole thing but It's more just exploring the potential idea of it - If I end up saying the product wouldn't be feasible then hey ho - I wasn't really sure what other problems I could solve..

And It just gives me something interesting to experiment with - the other option could be some form of mechanical locking system where tools slot in and out of a slot in the bench..


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## Lazurus (30 Oct 2018)

There is a lot of interest in Lichtenburg fractal burning at the moment and only one commercial unit that I am aware of in the word. In the USA at that.
If you came up with a safe, practical unit to meet HSE spec you could retire on the profits......


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## Lazurus (30 Oct 2018)

Another idea from an old post.........

I always thought that a 43mm drill collar with bubble levels in 3 axes would be useful. Never found one :-(

The best trick I picked up to help me drill vertical holes handheld is to put an engineers square on the surface next to the hole, blade sticking up. It helps me to judge what is square.


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## John Brown (30 Oct 2018)

Without wishing to rain on your parade, I can see a few problems.
Firstly, you have to fix a steel plate to the bottom of the tool. Rust is a possibility.
Secondly, I think we're all supposed to be saving power these days, rather than what some might call wasting it by powering electro-magnets.
Thirdly, you might find ant loose tools/iron filings/fasteners getting stuck to the bench.

I have a bench grinder(of sorts), and a metalworking vise, both of which are bolted to a block of wood that I clamp in one of the quick-release woodwork vises attached to my bench. At least that's the idea. The reality is that my bench is covered in rubbish all the time, and I can't get to the vise without stuff falling on the floor...
Anyhow, I feel that a quick release clamping system would be safer, cheaper and easier.

One final thought, what happens if you're busy grinding or sawing away and theres a power cut, or a fuse blows?


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## Eric The Viking (30 Oct 2018)

I'm not sure how you might turn a microwave transformer into an electromagnet, safely - transformers aren't the same thing and much would depend on which method of construction it uses.



Lazurus":2siibwa7 said:


> There is a lot of interest in Lichtenburg fractal burning at the moment and only one commercial unit that I am aware of in the word. In the USA at that. If you came up with a safe, practical unit to meet HSE spec you could retire on the profits......



And that one unit (in Chicago, IIRC)can only use down-time from medical irradiation tasks.

I bought my dad one of their Lichtenberg figures for his 80th birthday.


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2018)

Mending a toaster and found that the carriage is held down by a tiny electro magnet, which goes off with the timer to release the toast. It's actually quite powerful. One at each corner might hold a bit if kit down, especially if scaled up. Then you'd have carefully positioned steel buttons let in to the surface of the bench for the magnets to hit


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## matt (30 Oct 2018)

I'd quite like an electromagnet strong enough to clear my bench. Perhaps mounted to one side?


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## Jacob (30 Oct 2018)

matt":2b8kcr0d said:


> I'd quite like an electromagnet strong enough to clear my bench. Perhaps mounted to one side?


Cricket bat?


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## Bm101 (30 Oct 2018)

matt":21hdekds said:


> I'd quite like an electromagnet strong enough to clear my bench. Perhaps mounted to one side?


I have three mounted in the ceiling and a lot of fillings in my teeth. 
I have a pair of old ski boots from a charity shop glued to the floor.
Strap on the boots.
I turn the magnets on and it sorts my back right out.
Also.
I've been approached by the Harlem Globe Trotters three times in the last 2 months.


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## Stanleymonkey (30 Oct 2018)

Your survey link is coming up as page not found


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## Bm101 (30 Oct 2018)

Lazurus":1m6bsnkk said:


> Another idea from an old post.........
> 
> I always thought that a 43mm drill collar with bubble levels in 3 axes would be useful. Never found one :-(
> 
> The best trick I picked up to help me drill vertical holes handheld is to put an engineers square on the surface next to the hole, blade sticking up. It helps me to judge what is square.



Being serious for a second...
If you can nail an easy to use, cheap to manufacture, usable jig for drilling holes plumb in 3 axes by hand you will have a cracking start on your retirement plan at 18 years of age.


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## Stanleymonkey (30 Oct 2018)

+1 for the safety aspect. If you trip a circuit breaker during a session with a bench grinder / belt sander / chopsaw and the magnet fails that would be an extremely dangerous situation especially if the tool takes a few seconds to slow down and stop while it is no longer fixed in place!

If you are interested in this sort of stuff - why not look at school based tool storage? Flip top benches / furniture for multi purpose or shared art/dt rooms at secondary school / college. DT is under vast pressure in primary school. Secure storage for tools that converts into tidy looking classroom furniture. There is very little available in my opinion. Most for primary is poorly designed and there is a lot of overpriced rubbish.

Anyway - good luck with your course and projects. All the best


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## SteveF (30 Oct 2018)

i remember an old episode where Norm left a space in his bench where he could place "unused" tools
I think it was for his morticer
no use of magnets, just a gap where he could put tools

Steve


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## Adam9453 (30 Oct 2018)

I’d say dry fixed locating dowels and toggle clamps would be a cheaper and more reliable way for switching small machines out on a bench or stand. The carousel idea for small fixed machines is also quite appealing in a solo person workshop. 
Regarding drilling square plumb holes with a handheld drill, I’d just use a pre-drilled guide block that was produced accurately using a pillar drill. It would help though if someone produced a drill block with a metal tube for the drill bit to run in (like the pocket hole jigs available) to avoid wearing the inside of the hole in the jig and rendering it therefore inaccurate. 
An accurate solid fence that could be retrofitted to Tablesaw’s etc with digital adjustment would attract some buyers I think, providing it was priced keenly enough. Once you’ve used a Tablesaw with a digitally controlled rip fence, it’s something you really miss.


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## Sheffield Tony (30 Oct 2018)

One way to get around the power consumption / unexpected walkabout on power failure :

Wind your electromagnet around a strong permanent magnet. The permanent magnet does the holding without sustained power; energising the coil the right way round to counteract the permanent magnet allows release.

Still not sure it will be a great idea, because of the pickup of small tools/filings/...


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## lurker (31 Oct 2018)

Say you dropped this idea; would it be a good plan as part of your general development project to write it up anyway and describe why you decided it was not feasible to proceed. Replies here so far seem to have done the work for you.
In my experience you learn more from fails than successes.

As an aside, microwaves, even ones that have been disconnected from the power supply can still store a dangerous electrical charge. Unless you are expert I strongly recommend you doing go poking around inside them.


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## lurker (31 Oct 2018)

Asking here (project research) was a good idea.

When my son was doing his engineering degree he started a project, but was well into it, before he mentioned it to me.
His "novel" idea was a silent door closure. He was somewhat deflated when I went out to my workshop and showed him a 90p B&Q piston closure that was near identical to what he was planning.


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## DTR (31 Oct 2018)

With regards to the numerous objections to an electromagnet, that problem has already been solved by flh801978 in the second post:



flh801978":o6dpaur5 said:


> Whilst the electromagnet is an idea it probably overcomplicates it
> Look at a magnetic chuck for a surface grinder (eclipse brand or so)
> Make a series of 6mm plates that bolt to your tools
> Place on top of the chuck turn the magnet on and your’e good to go
> ...



Magnetic chucks don't use electricity. They rely on a permanent magnet which is "turned off" by application of an internal pole that diverts the magnetic field:







(courtesy of Caxton's _Engineering Workshop Practice_)

Using a magnet chuck is still over-complicated; I for one wouldn't want my bench top compromised by installing a giant magnet. However I think the basic idea has potential. I removed the feet from my mitre saw so that I could clamp the base down on my bench. I even mounted an oak board on the bottom of my shaper just so I could bolt it down to the bench:






The same principle could be applied to many tools.


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## Tasky (31 Oct 2018)

Doug_Hill1":1yoywno8 said:


> I am currently thinking of creating a mechanism in which you can mount an electromagnet into your bench which will act as a removable tool station


Many people would simply build a slot/dock into their workbench and bolt each small machine to a removable plate made of wood, metal, corian, or similar. The plates simply slot into the bench dock and lock in place, bringing the machines with them, with a blank one for empty use of the bench surface. A simple (but secure) locking mechanism would likely take more force than the magnet and wouldn't need power or anything complicated. 

I imagine there's already a commercial version of this in some form, but could be worth a look and maybe try that if there isn't one?


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## Ian down london way (1 Nov 2018)

Recognising the issue about the danger should power be lost to the EM device, I'd suggest you could pursue an evolution of the design addressing that risk, by making the EM activate / deactivate a locking pin arrangement that once activated, is passive. i.e. push/pull a locking pin into place. that way, the safety isn't compromised by lack of power (just unable to change between locked and unlocked).

Showing an evolution of a design concept to cope with problems is probably part of the journey you will need to take.

You may also want to show a search of patents first, to see what has been done. Creating a (hypothetical) product that actually is in breach of a patent, wouldn't not be a good idea - so I imagine that is the start of the process.


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