# Wood for face frames to be painted



## seanf (23 Nov 2021)

I'm again looking for advice from this fantastic forum. I am looking for recommendations for wood for building cabinet face frames that will eventually be painted. Looking around local places all seem to sell unspecified whitewood full of knots in nice banana shapes. I can also find redwood that is again full of knots, but with some careful sorting can hunt out something straighter. I've tried everything from small local suppliers to national ones and the DIY sheds. Watching YouTube I see the Americans using such perfect looking poplar, but can't find anything similar around here. Any suggestions for what wood I should use and is there any chance of buying something good enough to use without also investing in a planer thicknesser?

Many thanks

Sean


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## Doug71 (23 Nov 2021)

The Americans call it Poplar, we call it Tulipwood, perfect for painting but you will only get it from a proper timber merchant. I'm sure someone will recommend a local supplier to you if you tell us where you are.


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## recipio (23 Nov 2021)

Yellow poplar or Tulipwood all the way. Time to buy yourself a P/T for Xmas ?


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## seanf (23 Nov 2021)

Many thanks both. I will search for Tulipwood and see if I have better results. If anyone can recommend anywhere in the Shropshire region that would be great (I'm more than willing to travel to a decent supplier)



recipio said:


> Time to buy yourself a P/T for Xmas ?


I'd love to, but have been investing in a number of new tools recently so it will have to wait. If I get desperate I could maybe pick up a cheapy combo, but would prefer to just do without for now if possible

Sean


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## eribaMotters (23 Nov 2021)

I'm on Merseyside and I used Products | UK Timber & Decorative Panel Products | Latham Timber . They supplied my sawn poplar from the Leeds branch but have branches throughout the country. Only problems will be you having to machine rough saw boards and quantity as they do have a minimum order but this can be combined with sheet material. I bought sufficient to do the cabinetwork in our bungalow refurb, about 20 cubic feet and weighing in at 280kg. Every board was excellent.

Colin


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## Cabinetman (23 Nov 2021)

You can buy any Nr of boards of Tulipwood, opposite side of the uk to you, Somerscales, N E Lincs, it’s a very inexpensive timber. Ian
Edit you could find local to you, a one off, kitchen manufacturer and see if they will sell you some, I’ve seen such makers in the above Yard from all over the place taking huge quantities of it.


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## seanf (23 Nov 2021)

Thank you all for the suggestions. I would love to find a local supplier as I will only want fairly small amounts each time and it would be ideal to just pop somewhere and pick out what I want. I have found some more places that I will investigate

Sean


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## peter-harrison (24 Nov 2021)

I used to use tulipwood but every time I had to make a tall (1.8m+) door I got problems with getting it straight. Every pass over the planer seemed to cause a little more bowing. I gave up on the tulip and now use colour no defect beech or maple, whichever is cheapest. Much better!


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## Cabinetman (24 Nov 2021)

peter-harrison said:


> I used to use tulipwood but every time I had to make a tall (1.8m+) door I got problems with getting it straight. Every pass over the planer seemed to cause a little more bowing. I gave up on the tulip and now use colour no defect beech or maple, whichever is cheapest. Much better!


What is "colour no defect beech"? Pls I’ve used beech and steamed beech but not heard of this. Ian


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## Doug71 (24 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> What is "colour no defect beech"? Pls I’ve used beech and steamed beech but not heard of this. Ian




I made my painted kitchen from colour no defect maple.

Basically means there is nothing wrong with the wood but it can have some strong/strange colour to it which wouldn't really look right if used with a clear finish so it's a bit cheaper and ideal for painting.


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## Cabinetman (24 Nov 2021)

Ah, thanks Doug, the wonderful thing about this, learn something new every time.


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## MARK.B. (24 Nov 2021)

Yep this old dog just learnt a new trickthanks Doug


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## doctor Bob (24 Nov 2021)

I switched from tulipwood to beech and back to tulipwood.
I found beech was way more prone to twisting after fitting.


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## HOJ (24 Nov 2021)

I ran out of tulipwood last year, picked up some sycamore instead, was cheaper too, absolutely fine to work with, took paint well, only down side it comes in wide & long waney edged boards.


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## murdoch (24 Nov 2021)

It would be a good idea to speak to your local joiners shop or cabinet makers, we supply quite a bit of tulip/maple/oak etc to locals for there own projects ready planed up.


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## Oakay (25 Nov 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I switched from tulipwood to beech and back to tulipwood.
> I found beech was way more prone to twisting after fitting.


Tulipwood sands much faster too being softer. We buy our tulipwood a few months before we use it and that helps. Apparently more northerly grown tulipwood is better, being slower grown and harder, available from Sykes. Best to machine the wood, leave overnight and any pieces which start to bend, replace and use the bent pieces for other, smaller purposes.


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## eezageeza (25 Nov 2021)

seanf said:


> Thank you all for the suggestions. I would love to find a local supplier as I will only want fairly small amounts each time and it would be ideal to just pop somewhere and pick out what I want. I have found some more places that I will investigate
> 
> Sean


I get all my timber from Potters of Nantwich. About 45 mins from here so not exactly convenient, but a terrific place with a huge range of timber. I always use their unsorted redwood for faceframes, but they do list tulipwood if you fancy trying that.


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## seanf (25 Nov 2021)

Thank you again all for the very helpful advice



eezageeza said:


> I get all my timber from Potters of Nantwich


Excellent, thank you. They are within travelling distance so I will add to my list

Sean


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## scholar (25 Nov 2021)

Well, recognising that the OP is in the position I was many years ago, before I accumulated lots of machinery….

I now shudder to think that I made a large face-framed built in dresser using mdf panels, lipped plywood shelves, some old drawers and door fronts, and notably some white timber from B&Q (I guess it was spruce) for the (beaded) face frames . Anyway, you wouldn’t know and it has served very well for 20+ years - I don’t think it has any more dings than our tulipwood kitchen face frames. So there is a way, and so don’t be dispirited; but select your timber as much as you can and make sure it is all braced to prevent movement. 

Really though, once you have a planer/thicknesser and at least a decent bandsaw for dimensioning, everything becomes much easier - but it does need investment and space. Tulipwood is the best option for the face frames, I agree. (I have a kitchen to do and I think I will make the doors (rails & stiles) from Accoya - this will seem OTT to many, and Accoya needs some careful treatment itself, but tulipwood is more prone to warping, which is a risk with the numerous tall doors I need to make).

Cheers


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## seanf (25 Nov 2021)

scholar said:


> So there is a way, and so don’t be dispirited


I really appreciate this post thank you. I've been a keen DIYer for years and building up tools and knowledge for that has been a fairly easy process, but trying to progress a woodworking hobby does seem harder. Every time you think you are all set to work on something new there always seems to be a big expensive requirement, but I should remember there are multiple ways to achieve things and not let perfection be the enemy of progress. YouTube is such a great visual resource for learning things, but you do get tired jealous of seeing “home workshops” (the American ones especially) that are 10 times the size of an average garage and with more machines than Axminster's warehouse! I shall reflect more on what I have achieved instead of just where I want to get to

Sean


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## Flynnwood (25 Nov 2021)

murdoch said:


> It would be a good idea to speak to your local joiners shop or cabinet makers, we supply quite a bit of tulip/maple/oak etc to locals for there own projects ready planed up.



Hi - I have a Christmas pressie project that needs planed Tulipwood:
4 x 2 1/18 wide x 1/2 thick approx x 23 inches long,
and 4 x 1 5/8 wide x 1/2 inch thick approx x 23 inches long
Any interest around £30 ish plus post?


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## RobinBHM (25 Nov 2021)

doctor Bob said:


> I switched from tulipwood to beech and back to tulipwood.
> I found beech was way more prone to twisting after fitting.


Was that lightly steamed beech?


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## doctor Bob (25 Nov 2021)

Yes pink, steamed.


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## peter-harrison (26 Nov 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> What is "colour no defect beech"? Pls I’ve used beech and steamed beech but not heard of this. Ian


Hi Ian, it’s beech or maple with some areas of darker colour which makes it unattractive to the kinds of businesses which like very homogeneous materials which don’t require much skill in arranging them to get a harmonious product.
If you like a bit of wildness in your timber, or if you are painting it, it’s great stuff and somewhat cheaper than the uniform stuff.


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## Jacob (26 Nov 2021)

Don't know what the price difference would be but redwood is perfectly OK for painted stuff.
You might have to waste a small amount to avoid big knots - but they only matter if they are on the edges. Any knots within the face are easy to deal with but with careful selection can be avoided altogether.
Not sure why UK poplar has become known as "tulipwood" Wood Species Database: Tulipwood | TRADA
UK poplar is fine for painted stuff, not least because it's unattractive and easily worked. 
I've been of the opinion that UK poplar has a greenish tinge but it doesn't say that here Wood Species Database | TRADA
Spruce and "whitewood" maybe a bit too soft.
Beech and sycamore would be a pointless waste, harder to work, and beech fairly unstable.


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## Jacob (26 Nov 2021)

Doug71 said:


> The Americans call it Poplar, we call it Tulipwood, ....


t'other way round as far as I know Wood Species Database: Tulipwood | TRADA

PS seek and ye shall find: Tulipwood - Wikipedia
the greenish stuff I've seen maybe *is *the American "tulip poplar".
There are quite a few very anonymous looking timbers about which were commonly used, different species e.g. horse chestnut, and probably get re or mis named


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## RichardG (26 Nov 2021)

I agree with @Jacob I've always been able to find decent quality redwood for interior painted stuff. Our local Ridgeons (now Huws Gray) sells what they call premier quality which is normally very good with few knots and a decent straight grain, not cheap mind you...


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## Adam W. (26 Nov 2021)

Carvers call it tulipwood and I was completely confused because I've never seen a tulip tree....I guess they call it that because it's posher than calling it poplar.

A quick goolge tells me it's a magnolia, _Liriodendron. _









Liriodendron - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Jacob (26 Nov 2021)

Adam W. said:


> Carvers call it tulipwood and I was completely confused because I've never seen a tulip tree....I guess they call it that because it's posher than calling it poplar.
> 
> A quick goolge tells me it's a magnolia, _Liriodendron. _
> 
> ...


The plot thickens! Also known as 'gumwood', and 'canoewood' as it's good for dug-out canoes. Could be more demand for canoes than fitted kitchens, the way things are going.


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## Jar944 (26 Nov 2021)

Adam W. said:


> Carvers call it tulipwood and I was completely confused because I've never seen a tulip tree....I guess they call it that because it's posher than calling it poplar.
> 
> A quick goolge tells me it's a magnolia, _Liriodendron. _
> 
> ...



Liriodendron _tulip_ifera. (The leaves are shaped like the profile of a tulip flower) Commercially called yellow poplar here in the US, oddly not related to the poplar (aspen)

It grows like a weed here, and had historically been cheaper than pine or fir.

This pile is destined for a tub-grinder to be turned into mulch






Lots of poplar








That said I find soft maple to be superior for paint grade cabinetry. Maple doesn't dent as easily and paints up better.


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## Adam W. (26 Nov 2021)

It's pretty much the cheapest wood here too and probably quite good for veneering.

Saying that, I've never used it for anything as I use spruce, which is easy to get hold of and well behaved.


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## johnnyb (27 Nov 2021)

I find pine a bit tricky to lose the grain on painted interior stuff.it was better using oil based paint as it didn't raise the grain. beech is lovely painted its very hard and gives sharp detail and has some doff. tulip is more pine like minus the grain. a chap came in the workshop wanting a painted tulip pic frame making. Google funky frames. anyway he paid £70 from hymor for planed inch timber about 3 inch about 3m. he wanted half lap corners and a stopped rebate. painted in gray barn paint.


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## TRITON (27 Nov 2021)

Just a heads up.
Tulipwood is quite soft and prone to denting and cross grain scratching.


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## johnnyb (27 Nov 2021)

parana pine was the tulipwood of the seventies and eighties. also canary
pine. it was very wide boards and very stable(beloved of stairbuilders)


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