# widths of face frame pieces and the doors on a cabinet



## engineer one (5 Jul 2006)

got a pair of bookcases/ display cases now hanging and have got to 
put the face frame round to abut the wall, and cover the mdf faces.

thinking about making them about 60mm on either side, and also the
centre stile. the alcove is 1200 wide. the cabinets are about 1100 high.

the top face frame will be about 100mm deep, and there will be a kind of 
pelmet at the bottom which will be about the same depth, mainly to hide
a light for the computer table underneath. 

18mm oak not really a problem. 

but i then think about the doors. do i make 2 or 4 for the 2 cabinets?
and if so, since they will be wood with glass inserts, how wide should the
wooden frame be for both aesthetics and strength??

they too will be 18 mm oak frames.

paul :wink:


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## engineer one (7 Jul 2006)

gee don't any of you work out these things???? :? 
paul :wink:


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## DaveL (7 Jul 2006)

engineer one":l23c3f24 said:


> gee don't any of you work out these things???? :?


Well no!  I might draw out a couple of ideas, I have been known to make cardboard cut outs to get the 'feel' of how it will look. :roll:


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## engineer one (7 Jul 2006)

oh, and there was me thinking there were some special rules
or a set of formulae  :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## Philly (7 Jul 2006)

Paul
You have too much engineer in you're blood! :lol: :wink: 
Really, you have to rely on your eye-if it looks right it usually is.
Hope this helps,
Philly :wink:


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## Alf (7 Jul 2006)

engineer one":29aasjlj said:


> oh, and there was me thinking there were some special rules
> or a set of formulae  :twisted:


Hah, you wish (and so do I, if we're honest :lol: ). It's not for nothing that we all go ooo and ahhh when both craftmanship and design come togther sucessfully in one piece. 

Have you considered breaking out a pencil and paper? Or indeed Sketch-Up? :wink: 

Cheers, Alf


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## engineer one (7 Jul 2006)

alf, tony, i think you are both right and wrong, as usual.

i think the major problem is that when you make a built in like am 
doing here, and it is a long time since i did anything similar, is that 
until you have put the cabinet/s in and then built the face frame,
and scribed it in.you do not know how it will look, and how much it will
overload the alcove.

you need to stand back and look at it in situ. :roll: 

then you have to consider what you are doing with the doors.
i wonder whether i need to make two doors for each cabinet, or
just one, and i think this actually has an impact on the width of the
face frame, and of course the door frames. :? 

i could i know make frameless doors, but as a woodworker, not a
designer, you want to add wood. :? 

what i do know is that i want to make flat doors, rather than have
beading and shaping on the door stiles. and i guess it also depends
on the strength of the hinges i decide to use.

i also guess that a single door needs more wood for the frame than
a pair of doors, due to the weight of the glass.

i do actually realise that it is an art, not science or even engineering,
and i agree that if it looks right it will be, but its a waste of
b****y wood if you are not careful, and what do you do then???? :twisted: 

it is tempting to think that there is a mathematical answer to everything,
but unlike Ms Vorderman, i do not think so. it is the same thing as seeing
when a picture is straight, or a car is good looking, it depends upon how
it affects you, but you hope there is a starting point.

obviously not, so i will grab the wood in both hands, and just start
to make it look better.

thanks for considering it though,
and if i find a way to make a formula i will post i promise,
as indeed i hope to be brave enough to post the finished item
photos. :lol: 

paul :wink:


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## Philly (7 Jul 2006)

Paul
This is where I find Sketchup handy-you can "see" how different widths affect the look.
Cheers
Philly


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## JPEC (7 Jul 2006)

engineer one":215hyow0 said:


> i also guess that a single door needs more wood for the frame than
> a pair of doors, due to the weight of the glass.



Surely it is the strength of the joints and hinges more than the quantity of wood that gives a door strength on a cabinet door scale. Unless you have 8' x 4' cabinets.

Imho.
Julian


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## engineer one (7 Jul 2006)

julian, interesting concept, actually the individual units are
about 3ft 6 by 2ft wide each, but surely if the stiles are only say 
25mm wide, the glass would cause problems even if you put
in m&t's.

and philly i still can't get my head around sketch up.
and you moved to poole so how can you complain about the 
heat :lol: :lol: :twisted: 

paul :wink:


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## JPEC (8 Jul 2006)

Eng 1,

Very true  
I was thinking of about 40mm minimum which at those sizes you shouldn't have any problems, even with biscuit corners.

Ps. If you silicone the glass in place it becomes part of the structure for added strength.

I have made 3' high by 18" wide MDF doors with 50mm stiles 70mm bottom rail and 4mm toughened glass in silcone, shaker stile with biscuit corners. Solid as a solid thing!!

Cheers 
Julian


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## engineer one (9 Jul 2006)

secondary question.
i am sure that you all do it properly and make a pattern :twisted: :lol: 
but if you have to make the scribing freehand, and it is about
4feet off the ground and up, how do you hold the wood you
are going to scribe so that it stays square and upright whilst you scribe?

do you use cramps, or hot glue, or tacks???

just getting it finished so want to be sure.
paul :wink:


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## JPEC (13 Jul 2006)

If at all possible I use clamps but a couple of brads from the gun dont ruin the face too much. If you can't clamp or pin a mate to hold it helps. It doesn't take long to scribe once the piece is offered up.

Cheers
Julian


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