# Chisels - I could quit if I wanted.



## dannyr (10 Jan 2022)

It's just that my social worker said I should come to the meeting for support. I'm not a binge chiseller, it's just that I can't walk by a cheap good 'un in need of resto , and here in the Sheffield area, they're everywhere. I can quit, honest.

It all came to a head when I stopped counting chisels and just counted sets of chisels.

For example, one of my favourite, the thin patternmakers paring chisel, non-bevel type:


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## Cabinetman (10 Jan 2022)

That’s almost a 40 a day habit you’ve developed there Danny. Nice chisels!


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## Adam W. (10 Jan 2022)

Very nice, I like the colour of the handles.


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## Jameshow (10 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> It's just that my social worker said I should come to the meeting for support. I'm not a binge chiseller, it's just that I can't walk by a cheap good 'un in need of resto , and here in the Sheffield area, they're everywhere. I can quit, honest.
> 
> It all came to a head when I stopped counting chisels and just counted sets of chisels.
> 
> ...


I need a day trip to Sheffield! 

Where are the best crack (chisel) houses?!


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## dannyr (10 Jan 2022)

Jameshow said:


> I need a day trip to Sheffield!
> 
> Where are the best crack (chisel) houses?!



Thing is, I have been buying old chisels since 1980s, and the best junk shops are now gone, but today I'd say Chesterfield Market on Thurs, and then Sheffield 'antique quarter', especially when there's also a market --- please take the rest, so i'm spared temptation. 

what about Bradford - I also had a thing about vises/vices and all the most interesting seemed to come from round there.


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## Jameshow (10 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> Thing is, I have been buying old chisels since 1980s, and the best junk shops are now gone, but today I'd say Chesterfield Market on Thurs, and then Sheffield 'antique quarter', especially when there's also a market --- please take the rest, so i'm spared temptation.
> 
> what about Bradford - I also had a thing about vises/vices and all the most interesting seemed to come from round there.


Where in Bradford!


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## dannyr (10 Jan 2022)

And without even leaving paring chisels here are some more

Cranked/offset/dogleg/trowel handle...(the widest is 2in)







bevelled....







And gouges - various radii, narrowest 1/8th, I used not to like this style of handle, but really keen on it now - never seen it in a catalogue, but patternmakers seem to like it. Only one is out cannel.







All these paring chisels have blades (bolster to tip) 9in to over 11in and the long-style handle is up to 7 in long. The main maker is Wards, seem to specialise in this type.

Told you I didn't have a problem (this is only paring, what about mortise, registered, socket, etc)?


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## dannyr (10 Jan 2022)

I expected a quick challenge on how many I need ...... Well as a wood butcher of many years, who'd love to be a refined cabinet maker, but isn't yet, I'd say about 4, but I do like 'em. And deciding to start this post at least got me fettling/cleaning/sharpening them.


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## D_W (10 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> I expected a quick challenge on how many I need ......



more...as many as you can find. I think I have something like half a dozen large chisels (they're not all box handled, though), probably 8 or so bevel edge parers, 15 or 20 incannel straight gouges and another 15 or so crank. 

I didn't get all of the gouges on perfect - someone gave me a fantastic unused set of later marples gouges (but they're still hand finished) and I bid on a charity auction to get a huge number of crank gouges after already having a set because nobody was bidding on them and I didn't think the auction should go by with the generous person who offered the gouges getting stiffed for their efforts (imagine putting up a set of clean matching crank neck gouges and getting a high charity bid of $75 - the buyer would've made out, but that's not the right place to do it).


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## Tony Zaffuto (10 Jan 2022)

Beautiful pics! No tool nicer than tang style chisels, particularly London pattern!


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## D_W (10 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> I expected a quick challenge on how many I need ...... Well as a wood butcher of many years, who'd love to be a refined cabinet maker, but isn't yet, I'd say about 4, but I do like 'em. And deciding to start this post at least got me fettling/cleaning/sharpening them.



The unicorn is the cats rectum for incannel gouges, by the way. They are the top candidate for it and where I backed into it (I get that some people think it's stupid, but if there's something where a very sharp edge but one that's got good strength is useful, it's incannel gouges and stretching out the time between grinding the bevel back on the inside.


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## dannyr (10 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> The unicorn is the cats rectum for incannel gouges, by the way. They are the top candidate for it and where I backed into it (I get that some people think it's stupid, but if there's something where a very sharp edge but one that's got good strength is useful, it's incannel gouges and stretching out the time between grinding the bevel back on the inside.



re your two posts -- gouges - I think not much used except for wood sculpture these days, but I have noted in some of the videos online of crafts people from the past working for a living that gouges are often used for doing much of the wood removal before finishing the edges square with a straight chisel.

I have to say that I also have picked up sets of very fine gouges for peanuts - I'm slowly getting better at sharpening - doesn't always have to be straight across thumbnail or even crooked can work well.

On topic of sharpening straight paring chisels ... I noted many have rounded corners .... thought this was careless sharpening or a hollowed stone, but could be to stop the edge line as some do with a smoothing iron.


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## Cabinetman (11 Jan 2022)

Is it your thought that that style of handle was sort of reserved for patternmakers? I’ve seen one or two but they’re pretty rare so far as I know. Wonderful sets of chisels by the way, I couldn’t possibly use them all but I am feeling very envious! Ian


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## Kaizen123 (11 Jan 2022)

Just got myself a set of Narex Premiums as my first set and still in the process of honing them, only to watch Paul Sellers's instructional video of sharpening and watch him in awe taking an £8 set from Aldi and sharpening them into little bevelled samurai swords.... Obviously got a lot to learn!


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## whitty (11 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> Thing is, I have been buying old chisels since 1980s, and the best junk shops are now gone, but today I'd say Chesterfield Market on Thurs, and then Sheffield 'antique quarter', especially when there's also a market --- please, take the rest, so i'm spared temptation.
> 
> what about Bradford - I also had a thing about vises/vices and all the most interesting seemed to come from round there.


I need the name of your therapist, been retired for years but still buy tools from Chesterfield market most weeks. My kids tell me they are all going in a skip when i am gone.


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## Adam W. (11 Jan 2022)

Oh no, Paul Sellers.



dannyr said:


> Snip/
> And gouges - various radii, narrowest 1/8th, I used not to like this style of handle, but really keen on it now - never seen it in a catalogue, but patternmakers seem to like it. Only one is out cannel.
> 
> View attachment 126551
> ...


They are Best Improved Round London Pattern.

And here's my take on why those handles look like they do.......

You can hold onto the bulb and put your shoulder against the end and use the force of your upper body to pare downwards. It's also why they are sooooo loooong.

It makes your shoulder look like chopped liver for a while, but you'll get used to it.


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## dannyr (11 Jan 2022)

Cabinetman said:


> Is it your thought that that style of handle was sort of reserved for patternmakers? I’ve seen one or two but they’re pretty rare so far as I know. Wonderful sets of chisels by the way, I couldn’t possibly use them all but I am feeling very envious! Ian



I wonder if the very long handle shape was a kind of insider thing with patternmakers? I've also seen patternmaker kits with chisels with a kind of squashed mini carver style handle. Self made obviously.

Edit. Just seen Adam's reply -- thanks for that -- I hoped someone would know more -- any picture from old catalogue?

By the way almost none of the chisels shown are with the original handles - I've often picked up good blades with poor or no handles or vice versa eg the fine set of handles in the last pic was nearly all from one seller but the blades were all very similar width and just slightly differing curvature and there were spare handles so I used them to make my own more widely spaced set. I'm now well practiced in removing and refitting handles.

Also btw, except for one or two extra wide blades, I've not paid over £10 per and more often £1or2 per item, but prices going up for the sought after types.

My big mistake in the past was not looking carefully enough at the last inch or so of the back -- if there is pitting (common) you've got a problem/lot of work to get a good edge.


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## Cozzer (11 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> ....but today I'd say Chesterfield Market on Thurs....



Being a Dronfield resident, I often troll around C's Thursday market, and have to say that it's rare I find anything of interest, old tool-wise.
Now I know why!
You've got them all!


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## Adam W. (11 Jan 2022)

@dannyr The handles are in Salaman and the paring method comes through using the straight paring chisels and gouges.

I suspect that the cranked handled ones are used more like planes for fine tuning channels, but I've never used them as I'm not a pattern maker.


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## Jacob (11 Jan 2022)

Kaizen123 said:


> Just got myself a set of Narex Premiums as my first set and still in the process of honing them, only to watch Paul Sellers's instructional video of sharpening and watch him in awe taking an £8 set from Aldi and sharpening them into little bevelled samurai swords.... Obviously got a lot to learn!



Shouldn't take long to sharpen new chisels, in fact never easier when they have a nice new perfectly ground 25º bevel.
Just a few strokes at 30º and you are off. They always seem to have a hollow face but that makes it easier to sharpen, no need to flatten, just enough to take off the burr.
Sellers over-does it a bit, but could be a lot worse.
Call it "initialising" or "prepping" if you want to but it's just a fashion - it's just sharpening and next time you do it again exactly the same way again


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## clogs (11 Jan 2022)

need to talk the wife so as to get a long weekend uppp north.....somehope...lol....


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## dannyr (11 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> They are Best Improved Round London Pattern.
> You can hold onto the bulb and put your shoulder against the end and use the force of your upper body to pare downwards. It's also why they are sooooo loooong.It makes your shoulder look like chopped liver for a while, but you'll get used to it.



So that's what the dark stains on the end of some were ...... BLOOD ...... maybe I shouldn't have cleaned em up and kept this 'patina'


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## Jacob (11 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> ,...... some of the videos online of crafts people from the past working for a living that gouges are often used for doing much of the wood removal before finishing the edges square with a straight chisel.


Similarly with a scrub plane or adze - effectively a gouging tool to remove material quickly but roughly, followed by a flattening one.
I used to pop in the Chesterfield market (before Covid) but always got the impression someone had got there before me!


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## workshopted (11 Jan 2022)

Moulson Brothers Sheffield. The gouges and paring chisel are approximately 21 inches in length. I bought them off a stall in the eBay car park a few years ago.


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## workshopted (11 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> It's just that my social worker said I should come to the meeting for support. I'm not a binge chiseller, it's just that I can't walk by a cheap good 'un in need of resto , and here in the Sheffield area, they're everywhere. I can quit, honest.
> 
> It all came to a head when I stopped counting chisels and just counted sets of chisels.
> 
> ...


These are rather gorgeous, Danny, but I'm getting a bit worried that you may be turning into a magnet - have you noticed any difference in your pulling power lately?


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## D_W (11 Jan 2022)

They excel at cutting side grain to a line (because the sides of the cut are clipped by the gouges - the grain doesn't split and travel past the marked line and break out)....

...speaking about incannel gouges. 

And they are superb paring across end grain where much of the cut will be somewhat diagonal to the straws or up with no part of the corners buried in the cut splitting off wood. The ability to use a patternmaker gouges on a piece of furniture to trim off end grain easily is something that can't be overstated. It's not matched by just narrowing a cranked neck flat chisel. It's near effortless. 

Once you get one set up well (I would suggest a conical or small sanding drum on a lower speed setting on a die grinder (like 10k rpm) to grind back the bevels and then stone just near the edge slightly steeper with a pair of stone (a deburring wheel and buffer is dandy for this also) and then hone the back of the barrel on a stone until the edge is free of damage and polished near the tip. You want to bias the pressure toward the end of the tool, but not lift it. 

The difference in how an incannel gouge cuts end grain vs. a flat chisel is literally often the difference between being able to physically cut end grain neatly or not. 

No clue why the ears are sometimes sheared back, but it may be to be able to maneuver the chisel a little bit to release a cut without digging corners in, or it could be just to make sharpening and grinding easier. I doubt most of these chisels are ever being used in carve repeated patterns like a lot of firmer gouges may be as when I have gotten most of mine, even if they're sharp, the edge isn't neat.


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## D_W (11 Jan 2022)

workshopted said:


> Moulson Brothers Sheffield. The gouges and paring chisel are approximately 21 inches in length. I bought them off a stall in the eBay car park a few years ago.  View attachment 126575



Those are divine. The tang style suggests they're fairly early, and the quality of the glaze inside of the second one is supreme. The bolsters also look neat and well finsihed. Really nice!!


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## D_W (11 Jan 2022)

I think the handles are long on a parer because there's no reason they can't be. There's no balance issue because you are always holding the handle, and the only real problem you could have is fat chisel blades making them end heavy. They don't start to feel funny unless you put the rounded part in the back of your hand to push the chisels and your fingers never touch anything that tapers down (there's an older notion that something is on chisel handles for finger or thumb to push, but that's a poor idea - ask someone with mild arthritis to try it. Pushing is done with the back of the chisel in the ball middle of the hand or leaning over hand in front of shoulder or just shoulder pushing. I've made handles longer and shorter just to try things out and without the butt end as rounded and you find out pretty quickly why veering away from the established stuff was a dumb idea.


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## workshopted (11 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> Those are divine. The tang style suggests they're fairly early, and the quality of the glaze inside of the second one is supreme. The bolsters also look neat and well finsihed. Really nice!!


They all bear the same owners stamp but the seller insisted on selling them as individual lots.


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## D_W (11 Jan 2022)

workshopted said:


> They all bear the same owners stamp but the seller insisted on selling them as individual lots.



I may have made my comment in a way that unintentionally misleads - they look like the same make to me, handles and all. The glazing on the second one is easy to see because of the light and it's very clean, but I'd bet they're all similar quality, even if any are a different make. 

They are just dandy - it takes care and costs money to finish a steel that warps that straight and cleanly.


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## Kaizen123 (12 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> Shouldn't take long to sharpen new chisels, in fact never easier when they have a nice new perfectly ground 25º bevel.
> Just a few strokes at 30º and you are off. They always seem to have a hollow face but that makes it easier to sharpen, no need to flatten, just enough to take off the burr.
> Sellers over-does it a bit, but could be a lot worse.
> Call it "initialising" or "prepping" if you want to but it's just a fashion - it's just sharpening and next time you do it again exactly the same way again




Thank you I am a total novice at a lot of things so that's good to hear. I think I need to cut a piece of wood for the angle or does it matter that it's bang on 30°? I have an angle finder wheel thing for the hand plane blade but it's too big for the chisels. Is it better to learn to do it by eye or build a trusty jig type thing?


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## Jacob (12 Jan 2022)

Kaizen123 said:


> ....... Is it better to learn to do it by eye or build a trusty jig type thing?


Absolutely. it's not difficult either. Helps to visualise 30º if you draw it out a few times on a piece of paper, or have a 30/60 set square to look at. You only need the one angle of 30º, the others are "a bit more" or "a bit less": etc


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## Adam W. (12 Jan 2022)

That's incredibly vague @Jacob, surely there must be more to it than that.


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## Jacob (12 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> That's incredibly vague @Jacob, surely there must be more to it than that.


I'm told there are 360 of them but I don't believe it. 90º and 45º are also handy, but who needs the others? 180º isn't even an angle at all!


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## doctor Bob (12 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> 180º isn't even an angle at all!


Could you show your proof of that please. Angles arise from lines from a known point, so I believe 180 is an angle   by your argument 360 isn't an angle either.


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## Pineapple (12 Jan 2022)

whitty said:


> I need the name of your therapist, been retired for years but still buy tools from Chesterfield market most weeks. My kids tell me they are all going in a skip when i am gone.


Surely your kids must realise that they all have a resale value ?


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## whitty (12 Jan 2022)

Pineapple said:


> Surely your kids must realise that they all have a resale value ?


You are right, they are both engineers who run their own company and have no interest in woodworking at all. I expect that they would all be on E Bay before i was cold.


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## dannyr (12 Jan 2022)

and a wee TEST, to make sure we're all back from our hols, here at the Lodge of the Grand Order of Chisellers:






Below, for scale, is a Marples and Sons socket chisel, longer bladed version, (mid 20th C copy of American style, I'd say, and similar to various very pricey current chisels), but here are the questions:

1. What is the small chisel (make and type)?
2 Same Q for the set of 5 larger chisels?
3. What do they have in common?
4. Surely the set in Q2 was usually 4 , true or false?

Sorry no physical prizes, but your membership of the Order is assured for another year -- all dues to the Grand Vizier.


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## Adam W. (12 Jan 2022)

dannyr said:


> and a wee TEST, to make sure we're all back from our hols, here at the Lodge of the Grand Order of Chisellers:
> 
> View attachment 126675
> 
> ...


3. They all need sharpening.


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## dannyr (12 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> 3. They all need sharpening.




Correct - and confession time - their state is partly down to me - wrapping in an oily rag was not enough for a damp shed - now I'll be thrown out of the lodge for chisel abuse. -- actually, like Groucho -- I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would accept me as a member


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## workshopted (12 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> I may have made my comment in a way that unintentionally misleads - they look like the same make to me, handles and all. The glazing on the second one is easy to see because of the light and it's very clean, but I'd bet they're all similar quality, even if any are a different make.
> 
> They are just dandy - it takes care and costs money to finish a steel that warps that straight and cleanly.


Probably my fault - perhaps I should have said, they all bear the same owners stamp and they are all by Moulson Bros.


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## D_W (12 Jan 2022)

workshopted said:


> Probably my fault - perhaps I should have said, they all bear the same owners stamp and they are all by Moulson Bros.



Since I make mediocre chisels like below, I feel like they are speaking to me. I wonder if I can teleport them from you when you're not looking. 


Tools by the early 1800s were made to a finish level that I can match pretty easily most of the time, but the finish on those gouges is so wonderful that maybe I could match it, but it would be a separate task on its own.


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## dannyr (12 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> Since I make mediocre chisels like below, I feel like they are speaking to me. I wonder if I can teleport them from you when you're not looking.
> 
> 
> Tools by the early 1800s were made to a finish level that I can match pretty easily most of the time, but the finish on those gouges is so wonderful that maybe I could match it, but it would be a separate task on its own.




they're talking to me and don't want to be described as mediocre
look pretty fine from here,
even if the Moulsons have it by a whisker


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## Tony Zaffuto (12 Jan 2022)

David, you could easily make your mark as a boutique chiselsmith! The bolster on yours just speaks to all the care and time spent in making them.


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## D_W (12 Jan 2022)

Tony Zaffuto said:


> David, you could easily make your mark as a boutique chiselsmith! The bolster on yours just speaks to all the care and time spent in making them.



With fewer demands on spare time, it would be an interesting thing to take a shot at and would be a good excuse to get better and more efficient, but it would crowd out making other things and maybe expose my (in)ability to do more than one job at a time!!


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## workshopted (13 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> Since I make mediocre chisels like below, I feel like they are speaking to me. I wonder if I can teleport them from you when you're not looking.
> 
> 
> Tools by the early 1800s were made to a finish level that I can match pretty easily most of the time, but the finish on those gouges is so wonderful that maybe I could match it, but it would be a separate task on its own.



My friend, those chisels of yours look absolutely gorgeous!


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## Kaizen123 (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Oh no, Paul Sellers.
> 
> 
> They are Best Improved Round London Pattern.
> ...




Not a Paul fan?


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## Adam W. (13 Jan 2022)

@Kaizen123 He's a hot topic in this parish and mentioning his name can cause a bit of disruption.

I think I've watched one of his videos, but he doesn't float my boat. He does have quite a large following, so he's doing something right.

I'm not a great viewer of youtube content anyway and if I do look there I look for information on very specific topics, which he doesn't provide.


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## Tony Zaffuto (13 Jan 2022)

Similar discussions on US forums of other “content providers”. Some I like, most I don’t watch.

As far as Mr. Sellers goes, I have one of his books, and some DVDs my wife bought me long ago. I admire his woodworking skills, but can’t say the same about his video presentation.

Back to David’s chisels, particularly the style, to me this represents the highest style of our profession and hobby. Many can make “boutique” tools but most mimic the high production methods. David goes after style and methods of the best tang style chisels of days passed.


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## Kaizen123 (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> @Kaizen123 He's a hot topic in this parish and mentioning his name can cause a bit of disruption.
> 
> I think I've watched one of his videos, but he doesn't float my boat. He does have quite a large following, so he's doing something right.
> 
> I'm not a great viewer of youtube content anyway and if I do look there I look for information on very specific topics, which he doesn't provide.


Ah I see. Well I'm totally untrained in woodwork so I need all the help I can get! Hense why I'm here. I'm learning a lot from YouTube to be honest. Didn't know how to sharpen a chisel or use a hand plane so it's been a little university for me in my shed. Just trying to learn to dovetail now.... Am I jumping a bit ahead you think?


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## D_W (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> @Kaizen123 He's a hot topic in this parish and mentioning his name can cause a bit of disruption.
> 
> I think I've watched one of his videos, but he doesn't float my boat. He does have quite a large following, so he's doing something right.
> 
> I'm not a great viewer of youtube content anyway and if I do look there I look for information on very specific topics, which he doesn't provide.



We don't float each others' boat, but I would literally buy you a paul sellers T shirt, maybe even have one made (like face full size front and back - and shiny graphic quality), if you would agree to wear it among accomplished workers who generally have strong reactions to anything. And wear a go pro - I don't think you could stream real time due to the strong language.


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## Kaizen123 (13 Jan 2022)

@D_W I'm game!


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## D_W (13 Jan 2022)

Tony Zaffuto said:


> Similar discussions on US forums of other “content providers”. Some I like, most I don’t watch.
> 
> As far as Mr. Sellers goes, I have one of his books, and some DVDs my wife bought me long ago. I admire his woodworking skills, but can’t say the same about his video presentation.
> 
> Back to David’s chisels, particularly the style, to me this represents the highest style of our profession and hobby. Many can make “boutique” tools but most mimic the high production methods. David goes after style and methods of the best tang style chisels of days passed.



More or less mimic older production (But more manual probably yet than that due to lack of jigging - everything is just freehand ground with biases - curvature on the top taper, slight reduction in chisel width along the length, everything straight to the eye. 

But I get an extra tingle from those moulson gouges - and will continue to make chisels and knives, but I think I want to try to make some really really crisply glazed versions like those that don't look like a modern abrasive glaze. The lines and the aesthetics from 150 years ago or more are just 10 notches above anything made now.


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## D_W (13 Jan 2022)

Kaizen123 said:


> @D_W I'm game!



Could be good for a group buy!


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## Adam W. (13 Jan 2022)

Kaizen123 said:


> Ah I see. Well I'm totally untrained in woodwork so I need all the help I can get! Hense why I'm here. I'm learning a lot from YouTube to be honest. Didn't know how to sharpen a chisel or use a hand plane so it's been a little university for me in my shed. Just trying to learn to dovetail now.... Am I jumping a bit ahead you think?


No, I don't think you're jumping ahead, I think it's great that you're giving it a good go.


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## Adam W. (13 Jan 2022)

D_W said:


> We don't float each others' boat, but I would literally buy you a paul sellers T shirt, maybe even have one made (like face full size front and back - and shiny graphic quality), if you would agree to wear it among accomplished workers who generally have strong reactions to anything. And wear a go pro - I don't think you could stream real time due to the strong language.


I'm honoured that you are thinking about me all the time, @Jacob must be getting jealous.


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## D_W (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> I'm honoured that you are thinking about me all the time, @Jacob must be getting jealous.



Jacob would wear the shirt and like it. That wouldn't be much fun.


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## Jacob (13 Jan 2022)

Kaizen123 said:


> .... Just trying to learn to dovetail now.... Am I jumping a bit ahead you think?


Go for it! 
Mind you we did lots of simpler joints first - lots of half housings with short lengths of 2x1", good for correct marking up procedures and clean cutting with a saw. Did dozens of them - little crosses everywhere like a pets' cemetery!


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## Jacob (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> I'm honoured that you are thinking about me all the time, @Jacob must be getting jealous.


Is my ignored american friend stalking you now!  He never rests!


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## Adam W. (13 Jan 2022)

Jacob said:


> Is my ignored american friend stalking you now!  He never rests!


It's incredible that he has so much love for random men on the internet who are older than he is.


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## D_W (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> It's incredible that he has so much love for random men on the internet who are older than he is.



I think both of you are overestimating how much time I consider your thoughts or work. You may do some basic thought here and notice that you actually posted that you don't favor paul _in this thread, _which is what caused the response. I don't too often run into people who have a distaste - everyone thinks he's on par with George Wilson, which is comical. George was displaying his abilities making harpsichords and violins entirely by hand when paul was selling craft show stuff. 

Aside from that, no, I don't think that much about either of you except that I haven't seen anything notable other than talking about qualification papers. 

There are tons of people like George (in terms of level of work, being able to design at speed, deal with clients, and do fine work when there are no budget constraints but there are time constraints). Let's be realistic about who all of us are. George may span a much wider area of work than most, but there are more specialists at his level than there are places to work. 

The real issue with Paul isn't that you don't care for his bits - that's up to you - it's that people confuse someone like Paul with someone like George, and George is perfectly accessible (still) by phone to answer questions of design and making for anyone who will use his advice. He's not a fan of people who push for it and then ignore it, though.


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## Jacob (13 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> It's incredible that he has so much love for random men on the internet who are older than he is.


I'm sure he will get over us. 
Time is the great healer - and we'll always have Paris.


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## dannyr (15 Jan 2022)

Ah well ----- I see no-one took my test on p2.

The answers are that the small chisel is a Stanley Everlasting (from about 1930s on?), the larger are Wards Aristocrat (patented 1959, usually a set of 4,) both have steel bar through the wooden handle. The Wards also has no 'lands' at the side as some current 'boutique' chisels.




as you see, available both wood and plastic (more expensive) handle


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## dannyr (15 Jan 2022)

I really don't want to get back to the GW, PS conversations (respect where due to both gentlemen) but just realised I have a name stamp/punch G. Wilson (not sure where I got it from, have acquired the odd stamp occasionally, but also my mum's family was Wilson). And somewhere I have a tool with Sellers stamped on the handle.


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## dannyr (15 Jan 2022)

Sorry if I'm boring you but I've got my anorak on and it's onward, onward with chisels, 






Little and large of the socket world 3ozs the Marples, 6ozs the Stanley and 36ozs the John Sorby which could actually do with a bigger handle with an iron hoop if it's ever going to build a London barge again.


And if you think all Marples are fine, this one (1970s) is xxxx and some of the final chisels were also poor.


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## Adam W. (15 Jan 2022)

Carry on, I'm watching.


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## dannyr (15 Jan 2022)

Don't encourage him, Adam.

Here is a set of Marples response to the American socket chisel (many makers) of the 1920s and onward, these prob about 1940s? Somewhere I also have a couple of gouges like this and a couple of long chisels. In my mind the socket is too small, - someone in the future may also get a surprise -- when I acquired the first of these about 40 years ago they kept dropping off the handle, but some flourescent yellow handlebar tape did the trick







and a set of (Marples and others) sash mortice chisels with the bolster that looks a bit like a socket, but is not


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## Adam W. (15 Jan 2022)

Us Wilsons need to stick together.

Do you have a picture of the bolster without the handle ?

I like the America socket chisels, I've got a nice Witherby 1/2", long series socket gouge and I'd like to get hold of some more, but they're in short supply over here.


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## dannyr (15 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Us Wilsons need to stick together.
> 
> Do you have a picture of the bolster without the handle ?
> 
> I like the America socket chisels, I've got a nice Witherby 1/2", long series socket gouge and I'd like to get hold of some more, but they're in short supply over here.




My mum's lot were from Brum, Bristol Rd.

I think I have one I could show, but I'm assembling these sets as I go, through these winter weeks, with what I think are appropriate handles etc and I'm not taking handles back off -- I did think this was only a relatively modern style of bolster, used by Marples and Footprint around 1960/70, but then I found v similar in a 1910 UK retail catalogue.
In my picture, two kept their handles and the other older one was old style tang, the newer ones the thick, less tapered tang.

Yes Witherby are good, I believe Buck also? (any relation to UK (Buck and Ryan etc family?)

I'm not giving away the sets of chisels (some extras are going to charity), but if you want any fluorescent yellow handlebar tape, I've still some left.


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## dannyr (16 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Us Wilsons need to stick together.
> 
> Do you have a picture of the bolster without the handle ?



Here's the bolster and tang of the socket-like chisel (earlier version) as requested







Sometimes mistaken for a socket by online sellers


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## dannyr (23 Jan 2022)

Adam W. said:


> Oh no, Paul Sellers.
> 
> 
> They are Best Improved Round London Pattern.
> ...



I looked at the B I R L Pattern in Salaman -- don't seem as long.
Then I found a picture in an old collectors' tool sale catalogue and also a picture in Marples 1903 catalogue - these refer to this style as a Kensington or a Kensington Pattermakers' or a Kensington London Cabinetmakers'.
I think the ones I have (see pix above) were probably made by the patternmakers who bought the chisels.

Think I'll go with 'Kensington' as the name for these chisel handles.


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## Brill88 (21 Jun 2022)

D_W said:


> We don't float each others' boat, but I would literally buy you a paul sellers T shirt, maybe even have one made (like face full size front and back - and shiny graphic quality), if you would agree to wear it among accomplished workers who generally have strong reactions to anything. And wear a go pro - I don't think you could stream real time due to the strong language.


People do get worked up it’s funny tho people get angry about anything I’ve spoken with him he’s very set in his ways and his way is right so take that for what it is I’ve always liked more down to earth people who are in the real world but give a knod to the past like Richard Arnold


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## TRITON (21 Jun 2022)

I know the usual standard for chisels is N+1, but im sick of having to sharpen them all so decided to cut it down to the 6 main LN ones, plus another 6 old fashioned cast steel, wide and suitable for paring, and a further 3 or 4 low end(Stanley) type for heavy bashing.


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## morqthana (21 Jun 2022)

Adam W. said:


> He does have quite a large following, so he's doing something right.


So does Justin Bieber.


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## dannyr (22 Jun 2022)

TRITON said:


> I know the usual standard for chisels is N+1, but im sick of having to sharpen them all so decided to cut it down to the 6 main LN ones, plus another 6 old fashioned cast steel, wide and suitable for paring, and a further 3 or 4 low end(Stanley) type for heavy bashing.



So, what's the betting you don't stick with LN + 6 + 4 ?

I have something like that, but in my case N is a large no (and no L)


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## Blister (22 Jun 2022)

You can never have enough chisels 
Do most hand chisels have boxwood handels ?


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## morqthana (22 Jun 2022)

TRITON said:


> I know the usual standard for chisels is N+1, but im sick of having to sharpen them all so decided to cut it down to the 6 main LN ones, plus another 6 old fashioned cast steel, wide and suitable for paring, and a further 3 or 4 low end(Stanley) type for heavy bashing.


And for opening tins of paint?


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## TRITON (22 Jun 2022)

morqthana said:


> And for opening tins of paint?
> 
> View attachment 138133


Thats what my dad used to do, then use it to stir the paint. And also used one Stanley 5001 1" for splitting bricks.


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## niall Y (22 Jun 2022)

I suppose this stems from the belief that - 'the right tool for the job is the one you happen to have in your hand, at that moment in time'


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## morqthana (22 Jun 2022)

The trouble is that's the tool I keep in my hand when go to get another one, and then put down and leave behind.


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## morqthana (22 Jun 2022)

TRITON said:


> Thats what my dad used to do, then use it to stir the paint.


Mine used to sometimes blag a pair of mum's tights to strain it.

But never a chisel to stir - any fule kno that you stir it by taking one of the kitchen mixer beaters and put it in the chuck of a drill.


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## okeydokey (23 Jun 2022)

I've found that the drill mixer combo can put air/bubbles in the paint so It's stir by hand with a flat wooden spatula for the right size tin gets to the bottom and mixes in the good stuff at the bottom for me.
Masonry paint yes get one of the long metal jobbing and put it in your drill


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## morqthana (23 Jun 2022)

Anyone here remember the idea of storing old part-used tins of paint upside down?


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Jun 2022)

I still do.


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