# This is all Random Orbital Bob's fault...



## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

You know what it's like. Somebody suggests that you do something. You know it's a daft idea. Bound not to work. You know the sort of thing - "You should buy a lottery ticket", or "Why don't you ask her out for dinner?"

So, from another thread:


Random Orbital Bob":3du29yxh said:


> You may not be a gardener Steve - but you are a foodie so I recommend you just grow 4 sungold tomato plants this year. Then lets have this conversation again in September because I predict you will be an enthusiastic convert. Your taste buds won't know what's hit them



So there I am, in B&Q, just having a look. What do I spy but a 6-pack of tomato plants, including 2 SunGold. Sigh. But it's not just the plants, is it? Oh no. I need grobags. I could just buy a couple but they are a lot cheaper if I buy 4. And they will need supporting so I need some canes. And you have to feed them, apparently, with Tomorite.

So thirty-odd quid later I have this:







I'm looking at it thinking how many packs of tomatoes I could buy in Morrisons for 30-odd quid.

AND I STILL DON'T HAVE ANY BLEEP-BLEEP-BLEEPING TOMATOES!

S


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## Bm101 (21 Jun 2017)

Lol. How tall are you expecting those to grow Steve?!?
:shock: 
They're tomatoes mate, not triffids.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

Bm101":drxxhjgc said:


> Lol. How tall are you expecting those to grow Steve?!?
> :shock:
> They're tomatoes mate, not triffids.



I have no idea at all. I'm a gardening virgin. But I seem to remember my grandad's toms growing as tall as me.


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## treeturner123 (21 Jun 2017)

So that would be 2ft 6in!!!

Phil


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

Quite possibly! But those are only 4ft canes, so I don't think it is too OTT, is it?
BTW the other two varieties are Roma and Ailsa Craig, whoever she is.


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## Bm101 (21 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":29xvrg4t said:


> But I seem to remember my grandad's toms growing as tall as me.


  Gave me a proper chuckle.
Mrs grows em. I don't bother much these days. Never had a huge amount of joy with Tom's. I still grow runner beans, peas, a few tatties and salad cut and come agains. Cost wise probably only the salad pays for itself as opposed to bagged stuff like spinach/rocket types. The rest I grow because A. Easy peasy. B. Nothing beats homegrown spuds and runner beans dab of butter on a plate 2 minutes out the ground. Food of the gods. 
Stick some salad seed in there as well Steve. Will grow fast and won't upset your tomatoes. Increased yield and effortless. 
Good luck mate. 
Cheers
Chris

PS. I think Ailsa Craig is that good looking lass off the x factor with the dirty laugh just FYI.


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## custard (21 Jun 2017)

Worth every penny. 

Home grown tomatoes (when we get a decent summer) are just so much tastier than shop bought, same goes for leeks, carrots, sweetcorn etc. Some veg however, like cabbage, garlic, or peas, I can't taste so much difference, but with tomatoes (and even more with sweetcorn) the difference is genuinely startling.


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

Oh dear what have you started* Steve*, surprised you let *Rob* lead you astray but I'm afraid the damage might be done now.

You know that nice newish patch of block paving you are cluttering up with a car nowadays!

I can envision things getting out of hand very quickly.









Somewhere in that lot are some little promises of things to come.




And there's of course those that have been and gone.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

Are those strawberries shown against a pound coin? They must be HUGE!


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":pe900znq said:


> Are those strawberries shown against a pound coin? They must be HUGE!



Yes Steve, first batch this year were 35 to 50 gram each, those currently cropping are somewhat smaller, the cold snap slowed the growth down, but enough to go with the Raspberries etc. for tea.
New runners in new plot this year, they had been in greenhouse side plot (where the Tom's and Lettuce , Radish etc. are now) for about 15 years in three sections rotating out to new plants every three years.

Decided to move them this year to somewhere easier to reach and planted new runners, it would appear that the ground preparation was spot on.

The new plants, pots are for rooting new runners for a 3rd. batch so that I can scrap the old plants every three years.



There's other soft fruit to stock up freezer, Logan Berries are just a few days away,


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## Random Orbital Bob (21 Jun 2017)

I don't know what to say Steve....I can only apologise for my.....hang on a minute.....GOOD MAN.....well done you and I can promise you that come about August 28th (ish) you will be in culinary heaven! If I may be so bold and suggest marrying the sungold's with smoked streaky, pork n leek sausages and double fried organic eggs with a dash of Daddies and of course a slice or two of black pudding. Your day will start so well you'll probably never be the same. I spend most of September waiting for the next few trusses to load back up so I can pick enough for another English breakfast with them because they are quite simply off the chart. Important safety tip is of course to cook the sungold's in the pan after you've fried the bacon to inherit the flavour (I grill the sausages to remove most of the fat).

Of course...you will need to keep shelling out on Tom's between now and then....but lets be honest, they're so tasteless it's hardly worth it!

Better to spend time in the workshop making a wacking great planter...then you wont need to buy gro-bags


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

Bm101":1lnuyrk7 said:


> Stick some salad seed in there as well Steve. Will grow fast and won't upset your tomatoes. Increased yield and effortless.



Salad seeds in the same bags? Will there be space for that? I would like cut-and-come-again stuff. I like lettuce but don't eat it every day. I always end up throwing the last bit away. I've got another couple of growbags I could use.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":1cpgoeka said:


> I don't know what to say Steve....I can only apologise for my.....hang on a minute.....GOOD MAN.....well done you and I can promise you that come about August 28th (ish) you will be in culinary heaven!



WHAT???? You mean I have to wait until then? And then 3 days later I go on holiday and they will be neglected for two weeks...

I knew I'd regret this.

I could have bought a decent bottle of whisky...


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## Random Orbital Bob (21 Jun 2017)

Slightly more seriously, you must get them watered daily when you go on hols, toms don't tolerate wilting at all well and I suspect our friendship would come under some strain if they croaked before ripening 

But keep the faith Steve, I stand by my promise that you wont regret it....it's a long term payoff, like all good things in life


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## powertools (21 Jun 2017)

Gardening is a bit like woodworking, you can buy the stuff cheaper but there is not much satisfaction in that. 
As well as gardening we keep chickens and if you take all the costs and time involved it's crazy but going out in the morning to collect your breakfast eggs and lunch time salad and potatoes it is priceless.


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

Last year I had some Blight on a couple of outdoor tomato plants, first time ever. so this year I'm trying some F1 Crimson Crush from Suttons, supposed to be 100% blight resistant and good flavour so we will see, first time I've bought seed for years, home grown in the past few years were mongrels resulting from growing Ailsa Craig and Moneymaker and a couple of others such as Shirley together over the years.

Those in the greenhouse have resulted from self sets from Gardeners delight and some obscure minute marble sized variety that self set in the border this year.


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

powertools":3iaaem0c said:


> .... but going out in the morning to collect your breakfast eggs and lunch time salad and potatoes it is priceless.


Or even enough for a tea time palate cleanser.
Still on the plants at 18.15 today.


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

Steve, might I suggest you sort out some spare wood or scrap MDF and put some sun shading around those Grow Bags.
If they get direct sunlight during this weather you may be cooking the plant roots rather than any future Tomatoes.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

How do you mean Chas? As I say, I'm a virgin in this department.
Do you want me to cover them over to keep them dark?

I think the heatwave is over after today. Thank goodness.


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## flying haggis (21 Jun 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":9afmeadj said:


> Better to spend time in the workshop making a wacking great planter...then you wont need to buy gro-bags



but how much for the compost to fill the wacking great planter??


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## Doug B (21 Jun 2017)

Wish I'd have known you wanted some tomato plants Steve, I gave away 2 dozen last week.

Your plants should definitely reach the top of those 4' canes these are mine








They are about 5' high already & by the looks I should get a good harvest,


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## Steve Maskery (21 Jun 2017)

That looks impressive, Doug.
What name are they? (As if that would mean anything to me...)


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## CHJ (21 Jun 2017)

Anything temp. *Steve* for now just to keep the direct sun off the bags, water in the bags could easily get 40-50 c if direct sun gets on them in a sun trap situation.

bags full of shavings/sawdust, you must have some.

You're 2-3 weeks ahead of me *Doug*, too cold here without heat in greenhouse for earlier planting and starting plants in warmer conservatory results in leggy plants due to lack of light although you would be pushed to see the difference in light levels.
300 ft lower in the valley out of the frost pockets are 3 weeks further forward.


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## Doug B (21 Jun 2017)

I've gone for yellow tomatoes this year Steve, those are Golden Sunrise, my later ones are Sungold.

If you ever want general garden gear the cheapest place is the allotment shop round the corner from me, it's open Saturday & Sunday.


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## Woodmonkey (21 Jun 2017)

Gardening virgin here too, knocked up these raised beds and I've got tomatoes, peppers, aubergines, corgettes, cucumbers, baby sweet corn and kohlrabi all of which seem to be doing pretty well so far!


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## AES (21 Jun 2017)

You're mad, all MAD I tell you!

To quote another thread (which, shamefacedly I actually started) when he first saw my thread, our Cyprus-based friend wrote something like "What's going on here? Is this GQT or a wood working Forum? Has this place changed to a GARDENING Forum?"

I have to say that he and I share exactly the same approach to all this gardening nonsense - green concrete mate.

If someone else is going to do it then I don't mind the "fruits" - minute though they usually seem to be by the time the weeds, the hail, the rain, the slugs, the aphids, the snails, the sun, and the local rabbits and hedgehogs + gawd knows what other freak weather and animal life have all had their say.

But if I'm going to have to do it, then "No way Jose" - life's just too short.

So it's off to the decent supermarkets and (private) green grocers, etc, etc. AND you don't get even more backache and crook knees and shoulders at the shops either!

And there at the shops incidentally, despite our lunatic government apparently revelling in what is generally called "Europe's High Cost Island", you can still buy a helluva lot of tomatoes for 30 quid. AND what's more, if you buy the right sort from the right place (they're called Primagusta Cherry Tomatoes here - don't know or care if that's the breed or the "manufacturer's" brand - they come from Italy BTW), I swear by all that I hold as true and good that they taste just as good if not better than the taste I remember from my youth!

AND you don't have to wait until September, or water them, or cover them, or do anything else to them except just buy them!

You just come with me to the shops tomorrow and we'll buy 300 grams of these superb tomatoes for 3.80 Swiss Francs (I guess they're about half that price in Italy). For info, at the current exchange rate, one UK pound will buy you 1.30 Swiss Francs.

You do the sums, I'm too lazy and it's too late.

But - enjoy yourselves by all means, and I'll just stick with green concrete (if only SWMBO would let me get away with it) plus the shops. Nice girls there too, quite often! None in my garden (SWMBO excepted, natch)!

      

AES

P.S. Give it all up NOW Steve, before it's too late!


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## Woodmonkey (21 Jun 2017)

Green concrete's going a bit far, but did you notice how lush and green my plastic lawn is looking?


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 Jun 2017)

AES":se015m4i said:


> You're mad, all MAD I tell you!
> 
> To quote another thread (which, shamefacedly I actually started) when he first saw my thread, our Cyprus-based friend wrote something like "What's going on here? Is this GQT or a wood working Forum? Has this place changed to a GARDENING Forum?"
> 
> ...



Bah.....Humbug


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## Doug B (22 Jun 2017)

CHJ":3d4v0gn9 said:


> You're 2-3 weeks ahead of me *Doug*, too cold here without heat in greenhouse for earlier planting and starting plants in warmer conservatory results in leggy plants due to lack of light although you would be pushed to see the difference in light levels.
> 300 ft lower in the valley out of the frost pockets are 3 weeks further forward.



You surprise me Chas as I'm quite a way north of you, the only heat I use is the propagator for initial germination in Jan/Feb. I do have to move the seedlings between greenhouse & frost free shed most evenings in the coldest months as I couldn't afford to heat the greenhouse.
I should add it's not just tomatoes I like to get an early start on, onion & brassica seeds are amongst others that get started off as early as possible & then I do staggered sowing over the next months to provide a harvest over a longer period.


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## CHJ (22 Jun 2017)

Doug B":2dt6yr4t said:


> You surprise me Chas as I'm quite a way north of you, the only heat I use is the propagator for initial germination in Jan/Feb. I do have to move the seedlings between greenhouse & frost free shed most evenings in the coldest months as I couldn't afford to heat the greenhouse.
> I should add it's not just tomatoes I like to get an early start on, onion & brassica seeds are amongst others that get started off as early as possible & then I do staggered sowing over the next months to provide a harvest over a longer period.



There's the difference, a work content routine I've let slide several years ago, when I was spending so much time travelling to-and-from distant family and other reasons, a week away from base or other time constraints was leading to waste effort.
(even have power to greenhouse for propagators)

Further south we may be but a sharp frost at the end of May is not unknown in open countryside here, it was enough to take all the early miniature lilac blossom, all the damson blossom and delphinium flower heads etc. this year.

Self-set potatoes that were showing through were all cut back, an allotment 800mtrs or so away got away with it. 
Go down the valley into Stroud and River Severn Valley area 7 miles away and as long as they are not in a sheltered frost pocket they are anything up to a month ahead with blossom and outdoor tender veg.

Kidney beans planted out 4 weeks ago were cold enough for a week to turn all the leaves Yellow, only just recovering.
Fighting nature is hard work and frustrating at times.

Am making up more protection frames this year, we need to net stuff to stop birds taking cabbage, seedlings and pulling up leeks etc. old ones were on last legs after about ten years and will be covering several with plastic for next year to bring the strawberries and salads forward.


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 Jun 2017)

Are you sure your garden isn't actually a nursery Chas???


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## CHJ (22 Jun 2017)

Sometimes it just seems like a never ending list of jobs that need doing* Bob* but we can't have time to vegetate can we, that would never do.


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## AES (22 Jun 2017)

CHJ, taking my tongue firmly OUT of my cheek now, we had plastic nets over our grape vines (until we took the vines out that is - MUCH too much work for VERY small returns after a hail storm one year).

But back to being serious, PLEASE be careful about birds being able to get in under the nets somewhere, and then either starving or shocking to death. I found it personally heart breaking taking several corpses out from under - I'm a softie I guess, but even a dead spaggie upsets me. I LIKE birds, even though they do cack now and then.

But I'm sure a countryman/agriculturalist like you is already well aware.

AES


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 Jun 2017)

I spent 20 minutes guiding a Robin out of my shed the other day....they're so keen to follow me around and get that juicy worm that they even fly in the shed!


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## CHJ (22 Jun 2017)

AES":2kljp8z5 said:


> ....But back to being serious, PLEASE be careful about birds being able to get in under the nets somewhere, and then either starving or shocking to death.


We don't have birds, we have flocks, our own fault with all the feeding that goes on.

Just come back in from 1-1/2 hr wander through local woods and tracks to find 4 Partridges, a couple of Pheasants, a pair of Mallards, a Wood pigeon, Yellowhammers, Chaffinches various **** etc. making the best of the quiet time in the back garden, they having been limited this morning to uninterrupted access as we were working out there. 

Never lost a bird to being trapped, only my soft fruit has suffered, a Dove went away as a battered ball of feathers in the clutches of a Sparrow Hawk this morning whilst we were sitting a few feet away having a coffee break though.


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## CHJ (22 Jun 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":20ze5eh2 said:


> I spent 20 minutes guiding a Robin out of my shed the other day....they're so keen to follow me around and get that juicy worm that they even fly in the shed!



We have some Dunocks that regularly take a turn around the garage if door is open and covered storage area looking for spiders etc.
Frighten the life out of you sometimes when they decide to leave just as you are going in.


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## Random Orbital Bob (22 Jun 2017)

Likewise...we have a regular Red Kite now that does the rounds above the garden and very occasionally swoops on a pigeon. Though rather horrific on one level, it's also quite breath-taking when you realise their size and majesty close up. The Red Kite's have been fanning out concentrically from the RSPB release site near Nettlebed on the M40 for over 20 years now, rather lovely birds in my view.


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## AES (22 Jun 2017)

OK gents, I was sure I was "preaching" to the already informed in the choir!

We have Red Kites, Storks, Herons, and "Mause Bussarde" (Mouse Buzzards?) in plenty here, and if you're a bit into aero stuff, like me, they are absolute magic to watch in flight. All that skill and they don't even do a pre-flight briefing, let alone hold a licence! And never been anywhere near a flight school either.

But apart from Crows and Rooks "guarding" their territories, we don't see all that much "action" here, and that never seems to come to much. I guess the "worst" is the magpies for generally acting like the local avian thugs, especially against the smaller Sparrows, Robins, **** of various sorts, and of course the Swallows + "Mauer Segler" (literally "Wall Soarers", otherwise dunno the name).

But never had birds into the cellar or garage - I guess as we're built on the side of a hill, from the front, ours looks just like a bungalow, so it's too low for them. Only at the back do you see the full 2 and a bit stories.

Yup, I like birds - better than yer BL---Y gardening any day (sorry, I'll take me Christmas Scrooge 'at off again). 

AES

P.S. Got some GEORGEOUS tomatoes at the shops today (OK, OK - hat, coat, door)


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jun 2017)

The missus is our gardener, she has started practicing permaculture, which I guess is roughly sustainable organic mainly no dig gardening, loads of mulching. Her main problem is slugs, it is very wet up in t'Pennines and they thrive. We've tried almost everything with varying degrees of success.

Slug pubs just attract more slugs from the area, a bit like announcing a party on facebook. Coffee grounds tend to deter them a little, so does wood ash, however he favourite is the scissors and head torch, she tends to chop about 100 in two every night between the polytunnel and the veggie beds. She comes back with a manic glint in her eyes 

She's tried human hair from the barbers, no good, sheep fleece, no good and spreading oats around the tender new plants as the slugs are supposed to gorge on 'em, trouble is the rooks do too and it disappears in a couple of hours. She puts boards down for the slugs to hide under in the day to make them easier to round up with the scissors and in the polytunnel there's a boat load of nematodes munching away at the slugs. It's a bit like a Zombie film with an unlimited supply of bit part actors though. She's keeping them at bay but it's a lot of effort.

The frogs will be out of our pond to help and we did consider getting some ducks until we discovered only Khaki Cambells really like slugs, chickens get bored with slugs very quickly then scoff yer plants.


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## Bm101 (22 Jun 2017)

Ever tried electric fencing Giles. I kid you not. Look it up.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jun 2017)

Bm101":2buv6vtj said:


> Ever tried electric fencing Giles. I kid you not. Look it up.



Interesting  When we had wooden raised beds I had copper then galvanised wire around it so that when a slug crawled up it the slime would carry a current between dissimilar metals, seemed to work. Trouble is with permaculture, raised beds are just mounds of mulch so no vertical surface to fix the electric fence too. It may work in the green house and polytunnel though, I shall let her indoors know, many thanks!


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Jun 2017)

only Khaki Cambells really like slugs ...

Where did that come from? I kept half a dozen or so different breeds and they all ate slugs ... and none of them were Campbells.


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## Farmer Giles (22 Jun 2017)

Interesting, I believe the wife got it from another small holder, I shall as. A neighbour has a mixture of various ducks, I did suggest we bring them around for a day and try them out.


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## Farmer Giles (23 Jun 2017)

I asked the missus about ducks and she denied telling me that, evidently I must have had my usual selective hearing turned on. Evidently although Khaki Campbells are superb slug eaters, they also eat your veg as well. Other ducks are better suited and she wants some Indian runners, she reckons the going rate is 6 per acre to keep the slugs at bay without losing your crops.


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## whiskywill (23 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":3qesplv9 said:


> Quite possibly! But those are only 4ft canes, so I don't think it is too OTT, is it?
> BTW the other two varieties are Roma and Ailsa Craig, whoever she is.



Ailsa Craig is an island in the Firth of Clyde off Scotland.


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## Steve Maskery (24 Jun 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":13wx5q4d said:


> Slightly more seriously, you must get them watered daily when you go on hols, toms don't tolerate wilting at all well and I suspect our friendship would come under some strain if they croaked before ripening
> 
> But keep the faith Steve, I stand by my promise that you wont regret it....it's a long term payoff, like all good things in life



I've had a thunk.

I have some scrap hosepipe. Could I spike holes in it and thread it through the bags and leave the tap on a bit? Can you get toms too wet? Drainage holes in the bottom of the bags? What do you think?


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## dynax (24 Jun 2017)

what about a timer, http://www.screwfix.com/p/programmable- ... UQodCsUOmw


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## Steve Maskery (24 Jun 2017)

dynax":1twsb22g said:


> what about a timer, http://www.screwfix.com/p/programmable- ... UQodCsUOmw



These tomatoes are getting more expensive by the post.


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## CHJ (24 Jun 2017)

They could save you a fortune, don't go on holiday.


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## Steve Maskery (24 Jun 2017)

Too late, I've spent on both!


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## AES (24 Jun 2017)

Steve, Steve, give it all up NOW, before it's too late!!!!

I'll SEND you some "blooming" tomatoes - VERY nice ones, free of charge. We just CANNOT afford to have yet another member going over to the "wild, nature side"!!!!!

Hose pipes & timers? What next. In our DIY & Garden Centres we have some wonderful (so they say) automatic watering systems with timers, pressure sensors and Gawd knows what else. Only cost about 2 million quid.

This is even worse than festool and all the other slippery slopes. STOP NOW I tell you, and ENJOY your leisure. Do NOT become a slave to yer "garden".

AES


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## Random Orbital Bob (26 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":1kqikegx said:


> Random Orbital Bob":1kqikegx said:
> 
> 
> > Slightly more seriously, you must get them watered daily when you go on hols, toms don't tolerate wilting at all well and I suspect our friendship would come under some strain if they croaked before ripening
> ...



There are a whole bunch of different strategies for slow watering a crop while not there, some cheap, some less so and they range from simply upending a 2 litre pop bottle with the bottom cut off and shoving it in the pot, filling with water but only providing a narrow outlet from which the water drips over time. But that would never work in a grobag. The solution really is the friendly neighbour/friend/Ray option because that person will come in once daily and do the lot. You also get a security check for free and they can message you if there's anything untoward going on.

In terms of your hosepipe idea, I've not tried it myself but it sounds plausible if the flow rate were slow enough (Tomato's don't like continually wet feet). I would be inclined to do a prototype and try it for a few days to see if it works and to figure out how "nearly closed" the tap needs to be. But first choice, that friendly neighbour.


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Jun 2017)

I have seen systems with raised water containers and wicks down to the beds/bags - but I would think they work better with the wick put in before anything is planted. Best of luck with them - I've tried them outdoors numerous times and not yet picked a single ripe tomato. I've tried the bottle method, it's not particularly good, as to keep the flow slow the holes need to be small, and small holes block. It's not a bad idea to part bury a flowerpot or something in the bag so you can fill it rather than watch the water run off the top (especially if you've allowed it to get a bit too dry. I must admit to not liking growbags, I always did better with them in the ground. I had a four and a half pound truss on a Shirley once.


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## Steve Maskery (26 Jun 2017)

The problem with the friendly neighbour option is that he is going on holiday with me.

I think the timer idea with some sort of sprayer arrangement would be best. I could sit my hanging baskets by them and get them watered at the same time.

I could ask my mate Charlie to come in now and again, but it's 15 mins drive each way, so I can't expect him to do that daily.


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## Steve Maskery (26 Jun 2017)

phil.p":1q8a4c9x said:


> Best of luck with them - I've tried them outdoors numerous times and not yet picked a single ripe tomato.



Jeez, thanks, Phil, I think... :-?


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## Random Orbital Bob (26 Jun 2017)

Don't listen to him Steve, they never get any sunshine in Cornwall anyway :shock:


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## Steve Maskery (29 Jun 2017)

Is this OK? One of my plants isn't looking as good as it was. It's grown, sure, but the leaf is not so pretty. Is this something I should be concerned about?


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Jun 2017)

I'm not big on Tomato diseases but I have experienced blight and that's nasty. You often find that kind of leaf spot on the older more mature leaves and particularly close to the ground. I also notice on your plants there's lots of growth on the stem near the ground so I think you need a little updating in tomato plant husbandry/maintenance to reduce the risk of the crop being poor so here goes:

Tomatoes will tolerate well the constant removal of bits of their body! So if something looks bad, generally pinch it off and keep it well away from other plants (Blight spreads fast). Also remove all the growth near the base of the stem once the pants are a foot or more above ground. The principle behind this quite brutal removal of lower growth is twofold: firstly it prevents disease, bugs etc getting a hold down there where its moist and ideal for them and second, it concentrates the plants growth energy into the fruit rather than the stem etc. So to that end the other golden rule is you must pinch out the side shoots that appear (prolifically) between the stem and each main leaf branch. That job needs doing at least weekly because they come back FAST. Your goal here is to have a single growing tip which you will be stringing to a long cane so it goes up and not sideways. The plant will end up a good 5-6 foot by the end of the summer and tomato trusses will form all the way up directly off the main stem but NOT in between the stem and a leaf branch....those are the pesky side shoots that will rob your plant of fruiting energy. If you let them grow, those side shoots will form a second growth tip and the poor plant has it's limited energy supply diverted into too much green stuff and insufficient red stuff! I've got to go to the nippers sports day in a mo so have no time but later I'll snap some of mine to illustrate what I mean as I appreciate a picture here is worth a thousand words. But bottom line.....

.....pinch out individual leaves that look ropey, pinch out all growth off the stem near the bottom (unless its got a tom truss on), pinch out the side shoots and finally water once a week with tomarite once the 2nd truss has set.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Jun 2017)

That advice on side shoots is sound, but not for ALL types of tomatoes - look up individual needs.


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## Steve Maskery (30 Jun 2017)

Random Orbital Bob":3qu1ztrz said:


> The plant will end up a good 5-6 foot by the end of the summer



But my canes are only 4'...


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Jun 2017)

The advice is sound for single leader types NOT bush types. Steve's plants are Sungold which are the right type for this procedure. I had 10 mins spare before sports day so just nipped out and here's the pics:

First the sideshoots you need to pinch out...before and after on two separate plants (one with the actual shoot shown off the plant)
















Now the bases of the stems showing how clear of branches they are








And finally a shot of several plants just for sheer gratuitous tomato-ness


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## MrTeroo (30 Jun 2017)

Farmer Giles":3iwbxkrg said:


> Slug pubs just attract more slugs from the area, a bit like announcing a party on facebook. Coffee grounds tend to deter them a little,



Do you have a Waitrose nearby? I'm not sure if they all do it but ours has a metal bin outside full of all the grounds from the free coffee they give away.

They even provide a scoop to help you put it in a bag


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## Steve Maskery (30 Jun 2017)

MrTeroo":3k3rxlpv said:


> Do you have a Waitrose nearby?



In Kirkby-in-Ashfield?


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## MrTeroo (30 Jun 2017)

Treat yourself, give Netto a miss this week:


Waitrose branch - Wollaton
110 Trowell Road
Nottingham
NG8 2DH


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## Steve Maskery (30 Jun 2017)

Actually I was in there just the other day, as I had to go to Nottingham. It used to be the Co-op when I was there. It was nice. Posh stuff we just don't get. I was in Morrison's today. They are far from being a "good" supermarket, but they do have a half-decent fish counter, much better than the local Astescbury's. So it's fish pie tomorrow.

ROB, I've trimmed my plants as you described. I should say, though, that only two of them are SunGold. The others are Roma and Ailsa Craig. Does that make a difference? The SunGolds are noticeably taller than the others.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Jun 2017)

Roma is a bush, the others afaik are vine. Google determinate and indeterminate. It's not usually necessary to pinch out bush types, although you won't actually hurt them if you do. Many people grow bush types by choice as they don't take so much looking after (other than regular watering of course (which is much, much easier in the ground in greenhouse).


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## MrTeroo (30 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":maiflv0j said:


> Actually I was in there just the other day, as I had to go to Nottingham. It used to be the Co-op when I was there. It was nice. Posh stuff we just don't get. I was in Morrison's today. They are far from being a "good" supermarket, but they do have a half-decent fish counter, much better than the local Astescbury's. So it's fish pie tomorrow.
> 
> ROB, I've trimmed my plants as you described. I should say, though, that only two of them are SunGold. The others are Roma and Ailsa Craig. Does that make a difference? The SunGolds are noticeably taller than the others.



Did you happen to notice if they had a metal bin of coffee grounds at the entrance? Maybe it is down to each store to decide if they want to do it?


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## Steve Maskery (30 Jun 2017)

I didn't actually. I know that Waitrose offers free coffee to its customers, and I could smell coffee when I walked in, but I didn't see the coffee station. TBH I just went in to see what was different from when it used to be the Co-op. I bought a bottle of wine and a bottle of coconut essence, which I've had on my shopping list for months and can no longer remember which recipe it was that called for it.

There were fancy mushrooms and a fine selection of European meats. Wollaton and Kirkby-in-Ashfield are not the same.

But I am trying to raise the tone of the neighbourhood. I have my own tomato installation, you know.

The worst bit was when I got back in the car and couldn't move the steering wheel. There was a red warning light on, which was obviously the power steering. Fortunately, re-starting the engine fixed it. I'll have to keep my eye on that.


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Jun 2017)

Steve Maskery":3nt1sf7p said:


> ROB, I've trimmed my plants as you described. I should say, though, that only two of them are SunGold. The others are Roma and Ailsa Craig. Does that make a difference? The SunGolds are noticeably taller than the others.



Not in the grand scheme of things Steve. My personal preference is Sungold just because they're small and incredibly sweet and as such go ridiculously well with a bacon and egg fry up, quite literally off the chart delicious in fact. But all varieties grown at home in the traditional way will wipe the floor with anything you can buy in the supermarkets and that even includes the posh expensive ones like piccolo et al. I guess it's either the intensive farming methods or the travel time from being picked to the supermarket that does for them and they all just taste like water to me. Home grown taste like tomato's should.

The size of the Sungolds make them ideal to simply throw in the frying pan once the bacon's done, all that residual fat coats them and in literally a minute they're ready to follow the bacon to the plate (closely followed by the eggs of course). Come September I literally walk outside with a dish, pick enough for one meal, walk inside and chuck them in the hot frying pan.....that's how fresh they are.

But this year I'm also growing money maker for other culinary purposes and in previous years I've tried many varieties. Sungold are just my personal favourite. I don't have a greenhouse otherwise I'd try the big beefsteak types too because I love them in a salad with mozzarella, basil and slices of chorizo and a splash of balsamic and shallots.


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Jun 2017)

Incidentally Steve, when I was taking those snaps this morning, my plants had some leaf spots on too just like yours, just pinch them off as they appear.


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## Phil Pascoe (30 Jun 2017)

If you get hold of some nice big beefsteaks when you have a roast leg of lamb cut them in half horizontally, grind some black pepper and salt over them, put a sprig of basil on the bottom part and put the top part back on. Drop them in the bottom of the oven for an hour, and if the skin scorches just peel it off. Wonderfully Mediterranean, goes with lamb beautifully.


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## Random Orbital Bob (16 Aug 2017)

Come on then Steve....time for an update...here's progress at mid August. I've slowly been removing the lower leaves as they either get diseased or obscure the trusses from much needed sunlight. As you can see both the Sungolds and the Moneymakers have cropped well. The Sungolds (my favourites) gave their first ripe fruit at the end of July which is an absolute first for me and is a testament to that hot spell we had in June. But there's plenty more to come and I hope the sun hangs on enough to get my Moneymakers colouring up. 

Flavour....off the chart. I had the first fry up with the Sungold's yesterday morning and I'm still dribbling at the thought of it!

How's yours getting on in their maiden voyage?


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## Steve Maskery (17 Aug 2017)

Hi Bob,
Well they have grown and a few tomatoes have appeared, but there are still more flowers than fruit. I've removed quite a lot of the foliage to let the light in. I've been very diligent about watering and feeding.

One of the Ailsa Craigs has grown completely horizontally, but the others have grown upright. Here are some pics.































I have also grown some salad stuff around them, but TBH I'm such an ignoramus on this stuff I don't know if I've grown rocket or dandelion.

I still haven't worked out what I'm going to do about watering whilst I'm on holiday. The neighbour who would do it is away at the same time.


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## Bm101 (17 Aug 2017)

You can eat both rocket and dandelion leaves Steve. One is commonly used in salads and very occasionally pronounced ro-key by effete pretentious wan****s. 
The other will grow anywhere even if you try to kill it. There's a lot in a word especially if the word is weed and you're used to buying your food from sainsburys. 
http://www.ediblewildfood.com/dandelion.aspx
No traditional tree hugger here but I read Richard Mabeys Wild Food book as a teenager and it changed my perception of how we view food, in particular plants of course. Not much use for chocolate cake. 
We eat a fair bit of wild food from nettles (bit like spinach) to all the usual suspects like blackberries and sloes (with a bit of sugar and a lot of gin). Not at all trying to convert anyone but it's amazing what you can eat if you take one step outside the circle you're used to. Sometimes take the kids and show them a plant like pig nuts. They are invisible till you know what they are then you see them everywhere. Told my old man about pig nuts years ago when I was all enthusiastic about wild food and he went, Yeh we used to eat them all the time as kids. In a generation the general knowledge dropped off societies radar. It's a bit mad when you think about it. Anyway I'm off on one again. Nice Toms Steve.
Cheers 
Chris


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## Random Orbital Bob (17 Aug 2017)

Well that's not too shabby at all Steve. Bear in mind, last year, with the Indian summer we had, I was still picking ripe ones in early November so there's hopefully plenty more time for them to colour up. Are you giving them a tomorite feed once a week? Also did you pinch out the side shoots?


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## Steve Maskery (17 Aug 2017)

Thanks, chaps.

BM, I'm working my way through my last bottle of rhubarb gin (done rhubarb vodka this year as well) and I have a jar of blackberry whisky on the go.



Random Orbital Bob":3qb09hfx said:


> Well that's not too shabby at all Steve. Bear in mind, last year, with the Indian summer we had, I was still picking ripe ones in early November so there's hopefully plenty more time for them to colour up.



I hope so, I fear they will all be in their prime whilst I am soaking up some sun.


Random Orbital Bob":3qb09hfx said:


> Are you giving them a tomorite feed once a week? Also did you pinch out the side shoots?


Yes and yes, sort of. Tomorite at least once a week, actually. I did pinch out the side shoots, but things got a bit out of hand and I have one plant that has two mains stems. I don't think that is quite right, but by the time I had spotted it, it already had flowers on it.

I have learned a lot from this, apart from the ridiculous economics. I put three plants per bag. I think 2 would have been better. Also, the trellis/cane structure thingy is completely inadequate. And I started far too late.

These tomatoes had better be flippin' fantastic.


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## AES (17 Aug 2017)

Well Steve, you wrote, QUOTE: apart from the ridiculous economics. END. THEN you wrote, QUOTE: These tomatoes had better be flippin' fantastic. UNQUOTE:

Well Steve, I DID warn you right at the start, didn't I? The ones I buy in the supermarket here (Yup, supermarket, no shame here!) do taste "flippin fantastic" actually. Shall I send you a little box? Even allowing for the ridiculous postal, etc, charges here, they're pretty economic too, compared to grow yer own!

OK, OK, only joshing Steve - really    

Well done for persevering, your crop's looking MUCH better than we ever produced here.

AES

P.S. If you pay my air fare I'll come over and water them for you (and drool around in your shop between times)!


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## Steve Maskery (17 Aug 2017)

Dream on, Andy, dream on.


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## AES (17 Aug 2017)

I'll even bring some NICE supermarket tommies with me! FOC

No?

OK, I can dream, can't I?  

AES


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## Steve Maskery (30 Aug 2017)

Quick update.
I have two tomatoes that are no longer green.





And an automatic watering system:





Fingers crossed.


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## Random Orbital Bob (30 Aug 2017)

Hurray...that's a good start Steve.


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## Steve Maskery (19 Sep 2017)

Well the watering system worked well enough, but whilst I came home from holiday expecting lots of ripe tomatoes, most are still green - very green.

Still, some of the Sun Golds are pickable and, as Rob promised me, they taste most very excellent.







And quite a bargain at £530/kg

The Ailsa Craigs and the Romas are much bigger, but don't look as if they even close to starting to ripen - not a suggestion of a hint of a tinge of red.

A couple of the plants still have some flowers on. I take it that they are never going to make fruits, so should I remove them?

S


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## Racers (19 Sep 2017)

We have started to pick them just as they turn pink and put them in a cardboard box to fully ripen. 

I pinched out the tops a couple of weeks ago. 


Pete


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## Random Orbital Bob (19 Sep 2017)

Great news Steve. Definitely pinch out any flowers, side stems or in fact whole trusses that look small and spindly now. What you want the plant to do is focus it's now dwindling energy as the sun runs out, into the larger, existing trusses to try and finish growing and ripen them. 4 or 5 max trusses per plant is what you want with nothing else being allowed to grow.

Worse case, don't chuck the green ones because they make great chutney or as part of piccalilli ingredients.


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## Steve Maskery (19 Sep 2017)

When you say "nothing else should be allowed to grow" do you mean remove most or all of the foliage?


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## rafezetter (20 Sep 2017)

He means don't let the plants start any "new" stems or allow it to flower anymore. This will force the plant to concentrate on the crops you have already. Basically take off anything that doesn't already have tommies on it. If they are small, less than a £1 coin take those off too. You're close to the end of the season and nothing that starts now will come to anything and will just divert from what's growing already.

I'd love to claim credit, but larger planter decided it wanted to give me some tomatoes and spuds from the composting material I throw in there and my horticulturist friend told me to do the same.

You're right about the taste too, amazing.


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## Random Orbital Bob (20 Sep 2017)

What he said 

You should definitely also remove any leaves that are looking knackered or diseased. My sungolds have done well this year but the larger variety "money maker" have all got blight and it's ruined the crop. Really hacked off with that!


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## Phil Pascoe (20 Sep 2017)

And make chutney of everything as soon as you see blight.


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## AES (20 Sep 2017)

Cor blimey, I dunno, still MORE work to do!

"My" offer still stands Steve, 350 gr BEAUTIFUL-tasting cherry tomatoes, CHF 4.50 (PLUS postage)! A - - N - D available all year round.

   

AES

Edit for P.S. Well done mate, they look really good.


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## Steve Maskery (4 Oct 2017)

Well a couple of the round ones are finally starting to turn red, but the one I harvested didn't have a lot of flavour. The bell/pear-shaped ones show no sign of ripening and indeed, some are starting to rot on the vine. I did cut off one truss and put it in my south-facing window, but no joy yet and they've been there nearly a week. I'm a bit disappointed, actually. The SunGolds have been great, though.
I had a friend round last weekend and I cooked some of the unripe ones as Fried Green Tomatoes, with a cajun ranch dressing, and although I couldn't get any cornmeal (I used a mixture of cous cous and panko), they were delicious.
I think I'm going to salvage what I can and remember to start rather earlier next year.
Thanks for all your help and advice, chaps.


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## lurker (4 Oct 2017)

TBH my outdoor ones have not been great this year, they needed a sunny warm September really, and like you, I did not get them started early enough. 
That early rotting on the vine has been quite widespread this year.

My green house ones have been quite good but are starting to tail off.

Your costing made me laugh!
I think your main problem this year was you let too much foliage develop (all newbies make the same mistake).

But.............here is a plan of action to get plenty next year, at much lower costs.

1. Get some planters like RO Bob's made this winter.
2. As you have found, you need to devise a more robust frame to tie the plants to (should be a walk in the park for Mr. Jig!). Mine dismantles so I can use it year after year and is basically lengths on untreated wood off a skip ripped down to 1/2" square
3. Next spring keep your eye out for early deals (usually at B&Q) for multi-buy bags of compost (NOT growbags)
4. Start off with seeds in Feb in that nice conservatory of yours.
5. I'll bring you a variety of seeds I save every year.......I have some of a "Siberian" strain that can start to ripen as early as late May. But sun-gold is a favourite of mine too.


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## Steve Maskery (10 Oct 2017)

Well I took some of the trusses off the vine and put them in a sunny window. Then I went to Gdansk for the weekend. Brilliant weekend, if a bit harrowing. I knew a bit about Lech Wałęsa, but I didn't know anything else about its history. First bullets of WW2, the initiation of the end of European Communism. Just fantastically interesting.

But I digress.

I came home to my sunbathed tomatoes. Not.






Would you want to eat those? I don't.

Not a Happie Chappie


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## AES (13 Oct 2017)

Steve wrote, QUOTE: Would you want to eat those? I don't. UNQUOTE:

No mate, neither would I. Are they any good for chutney??? (I KNOW you'd need "a few" more).

BTW, I s'pose I've got my just deserts - after taking the mick out of you unmercifully, going on about our superb supermarket toms, the blooming idiots have stopped that particular brand/variety, AND the replacements not only cost even more but don't taste half as good either! Oh how the "mighty" are fallen. Serves me right (hammer) 

AES


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## Steve Maskery (13 Oct 2017)

LOL!
Yes, they are very disappointing. But the SunGold ones have been delicious and there are still a couple more ripening.
I might try again next year. I've recently planted some red and white onions and some garlic in a large planter/raised bed, and something is already coming up. Not sure what it is because I didn't label the rows...


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Oct 2017)

AES":2m3uhfw5 said:


> ... the blooming idiots have stopped that particular brand/variety, AND the replacements not only cost even more but don't taste half as good either! Oh how the "mighty" are fallen. Serves me right (hammer)
> AES


It's called the end of the season.


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## AES (13 Oct 2017)

No it's not phil. These days, with airfreight, there are virtually no seasons any more - not with most things at least.

Anyway, after posting the above, I found exactly the "correct" toms in another branch of the same supermarket just 5 miles down the road.

AES


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Oct 2017)

They are grown to suit the time the grower wishes to sell them, some early in the season, some late. They don't grow the same varieties all year round even they harvest all year round. The best are still the ones that grow in their natural season.


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