# Parkinson Perfect Vice



## Garden Shed Projects (11 May 2021)

I have recently bought a rusty old Parkinson vice from eBay. After a bit of research I found this model to be circa 1930’s. It has 90+ years of rust and muck on it.
Frustratingly I don’t have a photo of it before I started the refurb. However it looked not unlike this one. 




I got it home and initially removed most of the surface crud with a wire brush and some elbow grease.
I then carefully took it apart. It is interesting to note at this stage how well engineered these old vices are. All parts were intact and the only casualty was the split pin that held the screw in place.
I then left all the components in degreasant over night. The next day I pulled the components out 1 by 1. Wiped them down with a rag and cleaned them up using the wire wheel on the bench grinder. I was blown away by the condition of the parts, particularly the screw which showed no signs of wear at all. 









I then gave all the none contact parts a coat of Hammerite. It has covered well and looks smooth. Maybe should have done a bit more research and matched the original colour, however I have yet to see anything that confirms definitively what the original colour was. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I intend to use this as my main working vice so am not going to lose any sleep.
I went on to give all the moving parts a coat of lithium grease.
Next it was time for assembly and all the prices went back together no fuss. Fitted a new split pin to the screw and tensioned the spring.







I have added some oak for the jaws and the vice is now in use. I am really please with the outcome. All in it has cost me around £40, £25 for the vice and £7.50 each for the grease and paint. 
I have a record 52 1/2 that I am part way through renovating and will be looking to install as an end vice. Will post a few picks once it’s fitted.


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## Orraloon (12 May 2021)

That's scrubbed up quite well. Should be good for another 90 years now.
Regards
John


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## dannyr (12 May 2021)

looks great - I got mine many years ago and, did roughly what you've done (you have been more thorough) - it's worked 'perfect'ly ever since (brush out the sawdust every now and then)

I believe yours is the second version (mine has a longer 'chassis') - they were patented in 1880 and later copied by all the British makers - by the 1930/40s they started switching to a design more like the Record so I'd guess yours is likely to be a good 100 years old (now good for another 100+) - made in Shipley (Bradford)

the original colour was usually a rather garish red which matured to a shade of maroon, but an expert said they were also sold in other colours if requested by retailer or big customer.


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## Corset (12 May 2021)

nice work. good looking vice. Yes its amazing how something 100 years ago is going strong but some vices made now will struggle to do 10 years of moderate work. Its like record vices they are soooo expensive new but tehre must be 100s of 1000s of them in active service. I am always baffled why people would buy new when so much good stuff is cheaply available on the net. Schools businessess etc excluded clearly


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## Lons (12 May 2021)

Nice restoration, I like the shape of the old vice.
I recently restored a later version Parkinsons 15 which was in a state and now fitted to the front of my bench, I have the smaller 14c fitted to the end.

I made a slight modification though by cutting some 28mm copper pipe in half lengthways and fitting 1 piece over the top of the screw. There is a slot on the rear casting and it is a nice tight fit so no extra fixings to keep it in place, greased the screw and the cover keeps the sawdust and shavings off.

Note the "deliberate" mistake in the photo which required me to take the damn thing apart and assemble it correctly.


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## toolsntat (12 May 2021)

Lons said:


> Nice restoration, I like the shape of the old vice.
> I recently restored a later version Parkinsons 15 which was in a state and now fitted to the front of my bench, I have the smaller 14c fitted to the end.
> 
> I made a slight modification though by cutting some 28mm copper pipe in half lengthways and fitting 1 piece over the top of the screw. There is a slot on the rear fitment and it is a nice tight fit so no extra fixings to keep it in place, greased the screw and the cover keeps the sawdust and shavings off.


Interesting to see the back jaw on the other way around. Was this to give you a benefit when mounting on the bench?
Cheers Andy


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## Lons (12 May 2021)

toolsntat said:


> Interesting to see the back jaw on the other way around. Was this to give you a benefit when mounting on the bench?
> Cheers Andy


I take it you're joking Andy, read "deliberate mistake" I realised after taking the photo was one of those senior moments. Seems to happen more these days than it used to.


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## toolsntat (13 May 2021)

Lons said:


> I take it you're joking Andy, read "deliberate mistake" I realised after taking the photo was one of those senior moments. Seems to happen more these days than it used to.


Well, in reality I was trying to be tactful .
But having cogitated on it while looking at the same vice in today's (Thursday) auction, I think, without losing too much opening you could have it mounted behind a 5x3 ? apron which in turn becomes the back jaw. (Just realised I'm talking cobblers with this one as its a quick release DOH! ) 
Now, if it was a plain screw vice.......
Cheers Andy


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## rob1693 (13 May 2021)

Love to know where previous owners stored there vices all the ones I've acquired looked like they had been used for anchors , any one any idea of the age of the ward and payne


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## Garden Shed Projects (13 May 2021)

I know what you mean. It’s a testament to the over engineered nature and the weight of the materials used that with a little bit of clean up the castings and steel parts can look like new.

One of the things that has me thinking is the size of investment a vice of this nature would represent to a working joiner at the time of their manufacture. Multiple weeks wages. It would be the equivalent of a CNC router table or similar today. I wonder if it would have the same effect on the way the guy worked?


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## dannyr (13 May 2021)

rob1693 said:


> Love to know where previous owners stored there vices all the ones I've acquired looked like they had been used for anchors , any one any idea of the age of the ward and payne



I see you're from Sheff - as you prob know Ward and Payne were, like Marples, one of the big Sheffield makers and sellers,-- I know they were still selling up to 1960+ - their heyday was earlier. They once had a huge catalogue including bench with built in vice like yours - I have one of these, I'd guess sometime 1930-1950 - including same vice as yours and a 3in W&P bench vice - in bits at present, but cleaning up for daughter's use - all good after 60+ years - will try to photo soon


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## dickm (13 May 2021)

My Parkinson cost me 25 shillings from an auction in Morecambe 50+ years ago. Only when I got it home did I realise (doh!) that both rails, which are a one piece casting with the front jaw, had snapped completely through where they grow out of the jaw. Fortunately, the fractures were clean, so drilling through the front jaw into the rails and inserting a couple of HT Whitworth bolts made it useable for a good decade or so until I'd learned to weld. Vee-ing out the fractures, heating the whole thing on a primus and then welding made a better job, but finally decided, as did Parkinson, that steel bars made more sense and so got a Record 52, which is still in use. Sold on the Parkinson and it's probably still in use somewhere! 
But owners, beware, those rails are brittle!


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## dannyr (13 May 2021)

dickm said:


> But owners, beware, those rails are brittle!



Fair point - steel bar version also much easier to manufacture.

Interestingly, virtually all the bench engineering-type vices (ie not woodworking) have what are effectively cast iron (or a few, cast steel) "rails" (yes they do break occasionally at that same point).

Also as a side comment, I got spares (spring and nut) for the tired ones on my ancient Parky from a couple of much later Records which had broken castings - all vices need some care, some more than others.

Anyway, well done with your repairs - skill needed to keep that alignment.


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## TominDales (13 May 2021)

This is really nice restoration. You have given me courage to do up mine. I love my Parkinson, its very strong and reliable, the jaw is designed to be slightly angled in at the top so that it pulls at a right angle as you tighten it. It was the first vice with a quick release hence the patent.

I have two Parkinson stories.
I bought a Perfect in 1975, looks identical to yours, it belonged to my school history teacher. I paid approx. £15 pounds for it, it was all I could afford and he was really sad to part with it. But he needed the space as they were downsizing. I'd just built this bench at school and this kindly teacher offered me his old vice, it was like passing it down the generations. I'm now older than he was then!, at last I have the time to properly use it after 45 years! Interesting that it was worth about £25 in 1975 - they were like hens teeth then and now you can pick them up for a song on e-bay. The old boy is still a live in his late 90's. 

Bought for £15 in 1975 and worked perfectly since - its had no restoration apart from an old coating of phosphate de-rust and the occasonal clean - I'll add Lon's pipe, that is a good inovation.









The knob on the front secures a dog. see second photo. Its a piece of 1 inch bar slotted in some ply at the back of the vice, it can be popped up by reaching into the jaw and pushing it up from the bottom, it has small piece of wire on the side to hold in place the knob is in case it moves - but not really needed.

I wish I'd seen you photos last month as I was restoring an old Parkinson 15 I found in our cellar (left by previous owners probably been there 30 odd years!) it needed a bit of a wire brushing, although it was only surface rust and the red paint is still visible, but it was missing the lever, spring, nut and bar. Cost me £20 and a fair bit of googling old Parkys to find the right shape for the parts - used a drill press quill spring and modified a clamp lever - bashed into shape.










The toothed nut was filed from an old box spanner the type for small spark plugs. I'll post a fuller picture of the re-build when the garden stops galloping away. But seeing all your parts so nicely laid out would have saved me a lot of time,

No 15, Found in our cellar a few years ago, just got round to fixing the missing lever, bar and spring






Thanks again, nice to see how it all fits together.


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## TominDales (13 May 2021)

Just found this account of Parkinson's on the net. Parkinson's Patent Perfect Vise - the small workshop

It looks like your perfect is a Mark II (with two front screw holes on the Jaw), the Mark III - 15 inch with round steel sliders was introduced in 1930. 
Interesting yours has two screws and mind has 3 screw holes, two a bit lower down and one in the centre.


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## Garden Shed Projects (13 May 2021)

I believe the earlier version, maybe mark 1, had 3 screws and the ones I have seen had the holes for the mounting bolts further apart so the back jaw was larger


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## TominDales (13 May 2021)

Lons said:


> Nice restoration, I like the shape of the old vice.
> I recently restored a later version Parkinsons 15 which was in a state and now fitted to the front of my bench, I have the smaller 14c fitted to the end.
> 
> I made a slight modification though by cutting some 28mm copper pipe in half lengthways and fitting 1 piece over the top of the screw. There is a slot on the rear casting and it is a nice tight fit so no extra fixings to keep it in place, greased the screw and the cover keeps the sawdust and shavings off.
> ...


The mod looks a good idea for keeping the screw clear, although mine doesn't get that clogged - I have a separate vice for metal which may help.


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## TRITON (13 May 2021)

You've made a god job of it OP. Can I say though take note that far as im aware the springs for the QR are irreplaceable, so dont do it up tight in case it breaks. I took some research when restoring mine, and found that the springs for the QR werent available anywhere and nobody had found anything to replace them with.



Lons said:


> I recently restored a later version Parkinsons 15 which was in a state and now fitted to the front of my bench


Thats the one I have. Found it 'Doon the Barras' Got it for £15 and it was quite rusty though cleaned up really well and been in use now for nearly 2 decades.

When I got it I offered £15 and the trader had a friend with him who kept piping in that i should be paying much more. Unwelcome comments .
So I said. Do you pay this mans mortgage ?. The friend said whit ?, I says, do you pay this man's mortgage. He admits no, so I tells him to keep his F'ing opinions to himself.


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## dickm (13 May 2021)

dannyr said:


> Interestingly, virtually all the bench engineering-type vices (ie not woodworking) have what are effectively cast iron (or a few, cast steel) "rails" (yes they do break occasionally at that same point).
> 
> Anyway, well done with your repairs - skill needed to keep that alignment.


Yes, engineers vices(!) can be broken as I discovered when trying to press a bearing into the steering idler of my old Volvo! But that also welded up and Son in law is still using it. Alignment for welding isn't actually that difficult if it's a clean single break, as the broken surfaces give pretty good location.


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## TominDales (13 May 2021)

TRITON said:


> You've made a god job of it OP. Can I say though take note that far as im aware the springs for the QR are irreplaceable, so dont do it up tight in case it breaks. I took some research when restoring mine, and found that the springs for the QR werent available anywhere and nobody had found anything to replace them with.
> 
> 
> Thats the one I have. Found it 'Doon the Barras' Got it for £15 and it was quite rusty though cleaned up really well and been in use now for nearly 2 decades.
> ...


Agree, It took me a while to find a replacement. In the end I cut and bent this quill spring into shape, about 4 coils kept. I'll dig out some photos. £6 from you know who.





sourcing map Drill Press Return Spring, Quill Spring Feed Return Coil Spring Assembly, 3.3Ft Long, 40 x 10 x 0.8mm : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


sourcing map Drill Press Return Spring, Quill Spring Feed Return Coil Spring Assembly, 3.3Ft Long, 40 x 10 x 0.8mm : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools



smile.amazon.co.uk










Beware the spring has a lot of energy, I cut the retaining wire with the spring, plyers/cutter inside a cardboard box with hands in gloves outside. It actually expanded without too much of a bang, but wise to keep body well away. Very tough metal, found it easier to cut with a file than a hacksaw.


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## Crispym (16 Oct 2021)

That restoration looks lovely. I've just embarked on my own Mk II restore but I've mullered the slot of the small screw holding the quick release bar to the qr lever rod. I think I'm going to have to drill it out so does anyone know what size screw I'll need to replace it with? Thanks in advance.


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## kinverkid (16 Oct 2021)

I've just picked up an Parkinson Perfect Vise, USA No.4 plane, apple peeler, Blow-lamp, three sickles, car jack and real nice Oden? bench dog from Freecycle. Only went for the vise, the other stuff were bonus items.


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## Garden Shed Projects (17 Oct 2021)

Where is this free cycle? It looks like you have some amazing finds there. Can I assume you have not got them for free?


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## Garden Shed Projects (17 Oct 2021)

Crispym said:


> That restoration looks lovely. I've just embarked on my own Mk II restore but I've mullered the slot of the small screw holding the quick release bar to the qr lever rod. I think I'm going to have to drill it out so does anyone know what size screw I'll need to replace it with? Thanks in advance.


I am not sure I can help. If I removed the screw I would have no way of knowing what thread it is.


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## kinverkid (17 Oct 2021)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> Where is this free cycle? It looks like you have some amazing finds there. Can I assume you have not got them for free?


Yes. Free! It's a stipulation of the site Freecycle that anything you are getting rid of must be free to the collector.

Gary


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## Vono (17 Oct 2021)

Some great work on this thread.
Parkinsons really did produce quality kit.
Here's my No16.


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## Crispym (18 Oct 2021)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> I am not sure I can help. If I removed the screw I would have no way of knowing what thread it is.



I know what you mean - I have a missing bolt on the half-nut and a bent one on the runner back plate. I did a crash bit of research into imperial bolt sizes and found there are two main thread types: fine (UNF) and coarse (UNC) determined by the major diameter (the distance from the outer thread on one side to the outer thread on the other side). By measuring the major diameter and counting the number of threads in 10 mm (8), I determined that my missing bolts were 1/4" UNC with 20 tpi and were 3/4" long (the threaded part). This site was very useful: UNC Thread ANSI/ASME B1.1

The screw I'm looking for appears to be 1/2" long and _possibly_ 3/16 (~4.7mm) major diameter (but that's with the screw still seized in position). If it is 3/16 then I think that would be a #10-24 screw with 24 tpi. If it's smaller than that then we're looking at the #8 with 32tpi. 

Really grateful if you can help.


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## dickm (18 Oct 2021)

Would be surprised if the bolts were Unified. At that period, would expect them to be Whitworth or BSF; sometimes these sizes match with Unified ones, but only rarely. And, of course, if you go to smaller stuff, you've got British Association (BA) or some wondrous strange cycle ones!


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## TominDales (18 Oct 2021)

Crispym said:


> That restoration looks lovely. I've just embarked on my own Mk II restore but I've mullered the slot of the small screw holding the quick release bar to the qr lever rod. I think I'm going to have to drill it out so does anyone know what size screw I'll need to replace it with? Thanks in advance.


By MK II I presume you mean the one with the round bars. Although I both MKs, the later was missing the rod so I had to make one. I'll measure the screw on the MKI and let you know. They are imperial sizes so likely to be 1/4''. on my MkII I board 6mm with a tread cutter - tap and die set. I'll measure the MK1 tonight and let you know.


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## Crispym (19 Oct 2021)

TominDales said:


> By MK II I presume you mean the one with the round bars. Although I both MKs, the later was missing the rod so I had to make one. I'll measure the screw on the MKI and let you know. They are imperial sizes so likely to be 1/4''. on my MkII I board 6mm with a tread cutter - tap and die set. I'll measure the MK1 tonight and let you know.


My one has cast sliders, two screw holes on the front face and the shorter fixed undercarriage. I looked at the smallworkshop.co.uk history and figured it was the Mk II. However, I'm sure the little qr plate securing screw will be the same between the different versions. Thanks very much for helping.



dickm said:


> Would be surprised if the bolts were Unified. At that period, would expect them to be Whitworth or BSF; sometimes these sizes match with Unified ones, but only rarely. And, of course, if you go to smaller stuff, you've got British Association (BA) or some wondrous strange cycle ones!


Oh lawks - and I thought I was doing so well working out about Unifieds (like I said, crash course )! Of course, this is why one comes to a site like this: to draw upon others' superior knowledge, so thank you.
I'll look into those other standards but I actually bought a couple of 1/4"-20 UNC bolts which appear to fit so I might have got lucky there. What I don't like is having to replace the bolts with shiny hex head ones though - I know they won't normally be seen but it jars with my sense of the age of the thing. I did find some square head ones (UNC bien sur) from a site in the US for only a couple of dollars: 'Nice' I thought until I saw the $48 shipping charge! I'll keep looking.


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## TominDales (19 Oct 2021)

Crispym said:


> My one has cast sliders, two screw holes on the front face and the shorter fixed undercarriage. I looked at the smallworkshop.co.uk history and figured it was the Mk II. However, I'm sure the little qr plate securing screw will be the same between the different versions. Thanks very much for helping.


I'm assuming the screw is the one holding the bar into the spring. see the photo, I loosed mine, not a great picture as the garage door was left open and its under the bench and lots of dust!.
The screw came out very easily, given I bought it off my Latin teacher 45 years ago and he was reluctant to part with it at it was his fathers, I presume its about 90 odd years old! The dimensions are 4.7mm diameter and ca 0.7mm pitch. I therefore think its:
BSF 3/16 inch that is British standard fine 3/16 inch. The BSW equivalent 3/16 has a 1mm pitch, this seems nearer 0.7mm and it looks like a fine pitch. The BSF dimensions are 4.82mm and 32 thread per inch which is 0.8mm. So within the margins of measuring this looks like the one.
, The thread looks fine pitch, it almost easier to tell the difference in pitch by eye than by using the caliper!

PS I'm now a bit confused over the MKs, The one I've photographed has the cast bars and it has 3 screw hole in the front, so its probably a MkII? from the catalogues? I think I mentioend my more modern Parki with the steel bars did not have the original bar and spring.


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## dickm (21 Oct 2021)

Not superior knowledge, but access to my oil-stained Zeus chart (ye gods, the typeface is tiny! Or has my eyesight got worse?) suggests:-
If the screws are 1/4 inch OD, then as you've found there is 1/4 20 UNC, which has 20 tpi (for the metric only folks, that's a bit more than 1mm pitch.)
In BSF, 1/4 inch OD is 26tpi, which is darn close to 1mm pitch.
Interestingly, 1/4 BSW is 20 tpi, the same as the UNC you've got.
Not sure what head shape is needed, but if it's 1/4BSW, there's a variety in my tobacco tin full, so could possibly match what you need.


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## TominDales (21 Oct 2021)

dickm said:


> Not superior knowledge, but access to my oil-stained Zeus chart (ye gods, the typeface is tiny! Or has my eyesight got worse?) suggests:-
> If the screws are 1/4 inch OD, then as you've found there is 1/4 20 UNC, which has 20 tpi (for the metric only folks, that's a bit more than 1mm pitch.)
> In BSF, 1/4 inch OD is 26tpi, which is darn close to 1mm pitch.
> Interestingly, 1/4 BSW is 20 tpi, the same as the UNC you've got.
> Not sure what head shape is needed, but if it's 1/4BSW, there's a variety in my tobacco tin full, so could possibly match what you need.


I've measured my old MKII and pretty sure it 3/16 BSF, the screw is in perfect - mint condition amazing given its likely to be 100 years old, but then it never needs to be used. It has good oil on it, so I suspect I re-oiled it in 1975!

I think if @cryspym finds he has a damaged thread it would be simplest to re-tap it. I've had a number of old tools with 3/16 and 1/4 bs(w/f) and generally re-tapped with M5 or M6 when the treads have been a bit worn, probably M5 in this case. This screw is only loosed when the spring breaks, which must by a once in 50 year operation!


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## dickm (21 Oct 2021)

Crispym said:


> What I don't like is having to replace the bolts with shiny hex head ones though - I know they won't normally be seen but it jars with my sense of the age of the thing. I did find some square head ones (UNC bien sur)


Going back to you original post, you said you had mullered the SLOT in the original bolt. This suggests it may have been a countersunk head, 1/4Whit set screw. Or did it have a square head as you suggest later? If you can confirm, it's quite possible there is one in my magic box. Let me know.


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## Crispym (21 Oct 2021)

So gratified by the helpful comments here and the offers from excellent baccy tins!



TominDales said:


> The screw came out very easily, given I bought it off my Latin teacher 45 years ago and he was reluctant to part with it at it was his fathers, I presume its about 90 odd years old! The dimensions are 4.7mm diameter and ca 0.7mm pitch. I therefore think its:
> BSF 3/16 inch that is British standard fine 3/16 inch. The BSW equivalent 3/16 has a 1mm pitch, this seems nearer 0.7mm and it looks like a fine pitch. The BSF dimensions are 4.82mm and 32 thread per inch which is 0.8mm. So within the margins of measuring this looks like the one.





TominDales said:


> I think if @cryspym finds he has a damaged thread it would be simplest to re-tap it. I've had a number of old tools with 3/16 and 1/4 bs(w/f) and generally re-tapped with M5 or M6 when the treads have been a bit worn, probably M5 in this case. This screw is only loosed when the spring breaks, which must by a once in 50 year operation!


Thanks for that information @TominDales . I haven't removed the screw yet but I've just bought some Deep Creep to see if that loosens things. I'll also see if I can find a BSF 3/16 but will be keeping my M5 tap ready just in case.



dickm said:


> Going back to you original post, you said you had mullered the SLOT in the original bolt. This suggests it may have been a countersunk head, 1/4Whit set screw. Or did it have a square head as you suggest later? If you can confirm, it's quite possible there is one in my magic box. Let me know.


Yes, slot  I'm looking at trying to remove the slotted screw from the qr bar, as seen in @TominDales pic, which seems to be not wanting to go anywhere any time soon - hence the mulleration. 
However, I _also_ have a missing 1/4" square-head bolt that secures the saddle over the half-nut and another from the plate attached to the end of the sliders which is bent (the bolt, not the plate). They're definitely 20tpi. If your baccy tin can be persuaded...


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## Crispym (25 Oct 2021)

After a conversation with @dickm I thought I would try grinding the hex-head bolt to a square head.

Here's the original (with the bent one as well).











All in all, I don't think it came out too badly and the, er, heat treatment from the grinding wheel has discoloured the bright steel of the new bolt so it tones in a little bit with the old.

Now, the qr bar screw appears to be well and truly seized. Not sure of the best way to deal with it so any suggestions?


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## dickm (26 Oct 2021)

Looks a super job, crispym. Bit of judicious rusting and noone would ever know! 
As for the seized screw, it sounds like you are getting towards the "drill it out and pick out the bits" stage. I guess you've tried localised heating then sudden cooling and all the proprietory seize releasers? Was going to suggest blowlamp followed by one of those plumbers' pipe-freezing sprays, but since it goes into a casting, that might be a bit too fierce.


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## TominDales (29 Oct 2021)

Crispym said:


> After a conversation with @dickm I thought I would try grinding the hex-head bolt to a square head.
> 
> Here's the original (with the bent one as well).
> 
> ...


Its coming on nicely. Good reproduction.
I agree with DickM, time to drill it out and pull out the bits. if you have one of th You will then have to tap to a slightly bigger size. Suggest you go metric at M5 (depending on how well it drills out) or up to M6.


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## Crispym (31 Oct 2021)

Drill and pick was the conclusion I was coming to but hadn't thought of @dickm's suggestion of heat treatment. As they say, I won't try the heat/freeze but I'm sure a bit of judicious heat won't go amiss. Stay tuned 

BTW, tried the new bolt in place and it looks fab!


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## Crispym (6 Nov 2021)

Well hurrah. Mission accomplished!




Didn't bother with heating and went straight to drilling and got it clear. Managed to go through 3 drill bits mind - pressing too hard I imagine.
Additionally, very happy to report that the UNC 10-24 screws I (optimistically ) ordered actually fit!




Next challenge is drilling out a seized 5/16 BSW screw (getting wise to these threads now, heh) from the front plate that was holding the wood face on.
Then I can start cleaning the whole thing up.




BTW, the back face isn't broken - it's just a fold of the plastic sheet!


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## Crispym (11 Nov 2021)

O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! I just drilled out the 5/16 BSW screw, used a tap of the same size and saved the internal thread! I is a happy bunny.  

Having a closer look at the undercarriage, I've found a stamped number. Can't quite read it yet but wonder what it might be - a casting number perhaps? That would be interesting.






Here's a pic of the qr bar and the screw. Nice big divot out of the screw and I wonder if the bar is a retrofit with that yellow paint(?) on it.




And here are a couple of pics of the whole beastie.







Stay tuned for the next instalment folks!


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## Garden Shed Projects (12 Nov 2021)

Well done on the screw removal .
Tha damage to the screw is curious, looking at the width of it I don’t suppose it will have any affect on the qr mechanism. It would be interesting to know how it happened, that steel is pretty hard.


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## TominDales (12 Nov 2021)

Crispym said:


> O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay! I just drilled out the 5/16 BSW screw, used a tap of the same size and saved the internal thread! I is a happy bunny.
> 
> Having a closer look at the undercarriage, I've found a stamped number. Can't quite read it yet but wonder what it might be - a casting number perhaps? That would be interesting.
> 
> ...


Good progress. The bar is not that mechanically critical. I've replaced a bar on the one I found in our house cellar, for some reason the bar and QR mechanism was missing. However the paint could indicated that the vice had some pretty rough uses, ie spilt or dripping paint from a job where the part was held in the vice. The divot indicates something pretty hairy happened, the bars are the most vulnerable part to being fractured, worth looking to see if they have been welded. I wonder if the divot was cased by a slip with an angle grinder, that would be the most benign explanation. a blunt instrument at high speed would have caused more widespread damage to the bars etc. Unless the screw and the bar are salvage from another vice. It is 100 years old after all.
on my MkII i find the mechanism is prone to slip when loosening but fine on tightening. Its not an issue as it can loosed with the QR after a few turns. You may find a similar effect. How is the large half nut? does that have a divot cut out.


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## Crispym (14 Nov 2021)

I've done some drill wire brushing today to remove the worst of the corrosion. Here are some pics of the bars and the junction with the face plate. Difficult to tell if welding has taken place but, if not, that's some ugly looking casting in the second pic (like I'm an expert ).







Top of slidesUnderside





Inner & outerInner & outer other side


Full length
 
There is a wee bit of slight damage to the threads in the half-nut but not enough to affect the function I'm sure.


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## Crispym (4 Dec 2021)

Hello peeps, time for an update after a bit of gap as it's been a while since I've been able to do any work on the beast.
The degreasing has been done and a final rub down.








Remember the stamping I found on the fixed chassis? Here it is cleaned up: 'No 10 BB'




Found another stamp on the half-nut. Looks like '10 8 12 B'. Would be fab if that's the casting date!




I've treated the hidden parts like the qr bar and nut, spring and half-nut with shellac. 
Now getting ready to paint the rest with smooth Hammerite in ruby red. Looking forward to that but need to work out what _not_ to paint. Won't be doing the screw - that'll get greased - but I guess the sliding surfaces on the arms should be clean too.
Any other pointers?


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## toolsntat (5 Dec 2021)

I take that as 10 &12 BB
As in, it fits both.
Cheers
Andy


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## TRITON (5 Dec 2021)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> Tha damage to the screw is curious


It's probably from pushing it shut without using the lever. And maybe its only that section as for most of the time in its life it only ever got opened that far.
When I push mine shut it makes a dr dr dr dr dr dr sound which it the spring on the QR jumping as the mechanism moves. I'd say its that.


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## Crispym (5 Dec 2021)

toolsntat said:


> I take that as 10 &12 BB
> As in, it fits both.
> Cheers
> Andy


Ah yes, looking at it in that context, it does look more like an ampersand - so it fits my No. 10 BB . Did think it a _little_ strange that a date would be put on that individual piece! Thanks Andy.



TRITON said:


> It's probably from pushing it shut without using the lever. And maybe its only that section as for most of the time in its life it only ever got opened that far.


I did wonder that too but then thought it's too localised - I would expect years of pushing shut without the lever would spread the wear around the screw. @TominDales suggestion above of the angle grinder slip seems quite likely to me: previous user was holding something with vise wide open to cut with the grinder and it went through too quickly or just slipped off the workpiece and into the screw. Hope the worker was wearing their brown corduroys. 

As an aside, I'm pleased to find a use (i.e. protecting my bench) for the kilometres of packing paper that Amazon so kindly supply when I order a pack of toothpicks.


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## Crispym (26 Feb 2022)

At long last, it's complete! Took a while...







Used Hammerite Ultima Smooth Metal Paint in Ruby Red which looks lovely but I'm not massively happy with the durability of the finish. It seems to transfer from the vise to other surfaces too easily but I wonder if a bit of warm weather will help to cure it (at some point this year).
Here's the fitting







You'll see that the qr bar in the pic below looks to be at a bit of a funny angle and it was interfering with the smooth operation of the moving jaw.




Then I worked out that I had the qr fulcrum saddle the wrong way up:




A bit of fiddly under-the-bench removal and refitting of screws and moves perfectly now!
And here's the finished article with cherry cheeks.







Works beautifully




Thanks to everyone who gave their advice, especially on the screws!


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## TRITON (26 Feb 2022)

Its better if the inner plate is set in flush with the bench, this way its easier to clamp long sections further along from the vice without there being a gap behind.
As you've already fitted it, and moving the bolts would be a proverbial, I would take a piece the same thickness as the plate and the plate facing piece and face the front of the bench with that.

Other than that it's lovely, its even an interesting colour


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## Jameshow (26 Feb 2022)

Stunning

I'm going to have to buy a couple of Parkinson vices as I live a stone's throw from the old factory in Shipley.

Sadly recently demolished and replaced with a retirement home.


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## dannyr (26 Feb 2022)

Crispy, that's a beaut. well done.

James - you live in old vise/vice heartland - Parky in Shipley was the big one but also Entwhistle and Kenyon, also Wilson Riley both Keighley, and in Bradford itself Woodhead Cramp -- all from 1800s -- I also think some of the unnamed heavy duty nonQR woodworking vices come from your region.

Don't think you'll regret it if you equip with old local vices.

Someone needs to write a history - you'd get a good start from smallworkshop.co.uk.


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## dannyr (26 Feb 2022)

Ps like the colour - like an aged Parky red - I think the original bright red used by them, Rededa and others is a bit garish.


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## Crispym (26 Feb 2022)

TRITON said:


> Its better if the inner plate is set in flush with the bench, this way its easier to clamp long sections further along from the vice without there being a gap behind.



Hmm, didn't think of that. Mind you, as this bench was my attempt at an MFT (from when I thought machines were the only way you could do woodwork  ), I intend to make a proper one, probably à la Sellers, so I'll think about it then.


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## Crispym (26 Feb 2022)

dannyr said:


> Ps like the colour - like an aged Parky red - I think the original bright red used by them, Rededa and others is a bit garish.



Yes, thought the slightly subdued shade was better than pillar box red or something. Also thought it a good match for the remnants of the original paint on the thing but, like you said, could be aged anyway.

I really enjoyed this project and it's made such a difference having a proper holding device rather than pfaffing all the time with clamps, dogs and wedges.


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## Inspector (26 Feb 2022)

The vice turned out very nice. 

I had some spray cans of paint that were slow to dry and soft when they got there, even on warm sunny days. I found that heating the cleaned metal parts in the oven until just a little too hot to hold, taking them outside and then spraying light coats resulted in paint that dried as it went on and when cooled was hard and durable as all get out. It is what I do now when painting any metal that fits in the oven.

Pete


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## TominDales (26 Feb 2022)

Crispym said:


> Hmm, didn't think of that. Mind you, as this bench was my attempt at an MFT (from when I thought machines were the only way you could do woodwork  ), I intend to make a proper one, probably à la Sellers, so I'll think about it then.


Very nice. Looks great , like the paintwork and you seem to have overcome the old screws etc. laughed at the wonky bar. 

I would not worry about not being flush with the bench. There are two schools of thought on this. Flush or proturding, both have advantages.
My Parky was flush with the bench apron for 40 years as my teacher at school did it that way 45 years ago and most old vice are fitted flush, its good for when clamping long thin boards against the bench. But you can easily keep a board with your clamps or hold fasts and the vice will hold wide boards upto 6 ft long steady as a rock, its only narrow stock that you need an additional clamp, just use a 11/2 spacer. My recent jaw liner is thicker and protrudes so I've had experience of both. 
Sellers benches don't have recessed vices, he puts strait on the bench like yours with a 1 1/2 gap. There are advantages, its easyer to put boards in without trapping your hands against the bench. So don't worry it will work fine.


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## Lons (26 Feb 2022)

Mine is a younger model though was in a similar state of rust however I decided not to paint and just used oil and wax which still looks good and is esy to maintain, the other thing I did was cut a length of copper pipe in half lengthwise, can't remember if that was 22 or 28mm and used one half to form a cover for the screw mechanism to shield it from sawdust. It was surprisingly easy as there was a lip under the back casting and it just lies in place and doesn't interfere with the quick release.


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## Distinterior (27 Feb 2022)

Reading this thread has prompted me to dig out my old Parkinson Perfect 15 Vise. It has been stuck in a corner of my home workshop for a good few years now, waiting to be cleaned etc. A customer of mine gave it to me many years ago at which time , I'd never heard of Parkinson's Vise's.....!!

I had a quick read of the reference page someone posted up earlier in the thread to try and work out which model I'd actually got......I'm still not certain which Mark ( Mk1, Mk2 or Mk3) mine is or how old it is...?

It is 9" wide jaws, it opens to about 12" depth, has cast iron runners and 3 holes in the front and rear jaws. The mounting part is much longer than @Crispym model.
I "think" mine may be a 651 model, as listed in one of the catalogue pages in the previously mentioned link.

As to its age, I cant be sure as there seems to be a production overlap between Mk1 & Mk2 and Mk2 & Mark3 models...? Mine may possibly be a Mk2 from between 1905 to the1920's..? When was the changeover from 3 hole to 2 hole jaws...?

It still appears to work perfectly well and just needs a bit of TLC before putting it into service. 

















The other vice is my Record 52 1/2 and I need to decide which one to keep & use....


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## TominDales (27 Feb 2022)

Distinterior said:


> Reading this thread has prompted me to dig out my old Parkinson Perfect 15 Vise. It has been stuck in a corner of my home workshop for a good few years now, waiting to be cleaned etc. A customer of mine gave it to me many years ago at which time , I'd never heard of Parkinson's Vise's.....!!
> 
> I had a quick read of the reference page someone posted up earlier in the thread to try and work out which model I'd actually got......I'm still not certain which Mark ( Mk1, Mk2 or Mk3) mine is or how old it is...?
> 
> ...


Yours is identical to mine. As you say its hard to exactly date it, I tend to agree its somewhere between 1915 and 1930, so 1920s seems right.

Of the two vices, both good and will work well, sad to say it, but the Record is superior in terms of performance, Record copied Parkinson and then bettered them by replacing the cast ion bars. However I like using my old parky it works well for everything I've thrown at it and just as good as it was 100 years ago, I like the thought of using something that has seen a lot of wood over the years.

You could consider using both, one for the end of the bench (tail) and one on the face, although having said that tail vices are not used anything like a face vice, its an excuse to not sell the other one.


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## Garden Shed Projects (27 Feb 2022)

TominDales said:


> Yours is identical to mine. As you say its hard to exactly date it, I tend to agree its somewhere between 1915 and 1930, so 1920s seems right.
> 
> Of the two vices, both good and will work well, sad to say it, but the Record is superior in terms of performance, Record copied Parkinson and then bettered them by replacing the cast ion bars. However I like using my old parky it works well for everything I've thrown at it and just as good as it was 100 years ago, I like the thought of using something that has seen a lot of wood over the years.
> 
> You could consider using both, one for the end of the bench (tail) and one on the face, although having said that tail vices are not used anything like a face vice, its an excuse to not sell the other one.


As suggested above I have the Parkinson as my face vice and a record 52 1/2 as a tale vice. I am considering swapping them over as the record feels like a superior bit of kit. I love the Parky but if forced to choose between the 2 would probably go with the record.


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## dannyr (27 Feb 2022)

Garden Shed Projects said:


> As suggested above I have the Parkinson as my face vice and a record 52 1/2 as a tale vice. I am considering swapping them over as the record feels like a superior bit of kit. I love the Parky but if forced to choose between the 2 would probably go with the record.



I have had both - not much in it, but I prefer the older style Parky. The extra weight is a slight disadvantage when fitting or moving your bench, but when actually working at a bench it adds stability.

I think the main reason the ww vices went to round bars was a much simpler and lighter casting and the ease of drilling holes rather than machining rectangular slides.

I also rather like the look, but that's just my taste.

For my next bench, I'm fitting a non-QR even older than Parky mk1 -similar construction but even heavier - prob 150 years old and little to go wrong. Love it.


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## Garden Shed Projects (27 Feb 2022)

Agreed, there isn’t much in it as both are a pleasure to use.
You have seen my Parkinson at the beginning of the thread but here are photos of my Record 52 1/2.
When I built the bench I didn’t plan on fitting a tail vice and placed a transom right in the place where a vice would be. I ended up cutting through it entirely and to add a bit of support back in I glued and screwed a decent peice of ply across the legs.


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## TominDales (27 Feb 2022)

dannyr said:


> I have had both - not much in it, but I prefer the older style Parky. The extra weight is a slight disadvantage when fitting or moving your bench, but when actually working at a bench it adds stability.
> 
> I think the main reason the ww vices went to round bars was a much simpler and lighter casting and the ease of drilling holes rather than machining rectangular slides.
> 
> ...


Those are good points, its very solid and grips very tight. 

For the vintage like @crystpins with 3 holes, it makes it quite easy to modify to add a DOG holder using the 3rd screw hole to hold the dog in place. The large rubber knob was a spare foot for the late mother-in-laws walking stick, but any M6 threaded screw would do, as the spring on the metal insert holds the dog most of the time quite well. It's their to just hold the metal insert at the correct hight when doing a lot of repeat holds, The 3rd hole is tapped for M6. Behind the wooden jaw plate are two thin sheets of ply to create the gap for the metal part. The metal insert is an short piece of a 1 inch bar, its held in place by a home made spring made from a piece of garden wire inserted into a tiny hole at the bottom of the bar, sounds complicated but if you have the parts it took about 1hr to make. The small hole in the side of the bar was remarkably easy to drill.









The other things that's easy to see in these photos is the vice was originally recessed into the bench, in this way the top & apron were the back face of the vice. This is a very traditional mount (it was made in 1975 at school) to allow for clamping long narrow boards to the bench, but when replacing the original face plate I added one to the inner jaw so now it protrudes by 1/2 inch. I find this a more comfortable arrangement.


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## Crispym (28 Feb 2022)

Lons said:


> Mine is a younger model though was in a similar state of rust however I decided not to paint and just used oil and wax which still looks good and is esy to maintain, the other thing I did was cut a length of copper pipe in half lengthwise, can't remember if that was 22 or 28mm and used one half to form a cover for the screw mechanism to shield it from sawdust. It was surprisingly easy as there was a lip under the back casting and it just lies in place and doesn't interfere with the quick release.


Ah yes, saw your earlier pics - I assume I don't need to reverse the jaws though.  The grease is manky and sticky so I'll like to keep it away from sawdust.


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## Lons (28 Feb 2022)

Crispym said:


> Ah yes, saw your earlier pics - I assume I don't need to reverse the jaws though.  The grease is manky and sticky so I'll like to keep it away from sawdust.


Yeah the reversed jaws was an error  and one I freely admitted, you could try it is you wished though  
It's been a decent vice so far and had a fair bit of use, I also have the smaller version as a tail vice.


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## Crispym (28 Feb 2022)

Lons said:


> Yeah the reversed jaws was an error  and one I freely admitted, you could try it is you wished though
> It's been a decent vice so far and had a fair bit of use, I also have the smaller version as a tail vice.


Hope I didn’t cause offence. I knew you had admitted it but a tiny wee dig was irresistible  It’s exactly the sort of thing I would do. In fact I wouldn’t admit that I might, only might I’ll have you, have stuck the leather on before I planed the cheeks down to bench height. Of course no one would ever do that sort of thing. Oh no.


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## Lons (28 Feb 2022)

Crispym said:


> Hope I didn’t cause offence. I knew you had admitted it but a tiny wee dig was irresistible  It’s exactly the sort of thing I would do. In fact I wouldn’t admit that I might, only might I’ll have you, have stuck the leather on before I planed the cheeks down to bench height. Of course no one would ever do that sort of thing. Oh no.


  Far from taking offence I had a little laugh when you reminded me. It wasn't the first time or will be the last that I do something stupid like that , and I know I'm not alone.


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