# Chainsaw Sharpening - Crosscutting vs Ripping



## Aled Dafis (5 Jan 2012)

Following on from my previous thread on my recent stash of Laburnum, I thought it wise to post a new thread on sharpening chainsaw chains, and of the difference between crosscutting and ripping profiles on the chainsaw teeth. You don't need any special equipment to sharpen your saw other than a suitably sized file and filing gauge. The increase in efficiency I found from changing the tooth pattern was incredible, I'd guess at least a 50 - 70% increase in cutting speed. I was so impressed that I've now bought a second chain so that I can keep one dedicated to ripping.

Firstly this is a pic showing the common angle that most chainsaws are filed at, this is aimed at efficient crosscutting.







As you can see the file is angled at 60degrees to the chainsaw bar, and that the 30degree line on the filing gauge is parallel to the bar. I don't get the 30degree thing either, other than it being 30degrees from 90???

Ripping chain on the other hand is filed at 90degrees to the bar as in this pic. There's a 10degree mark on my filing gauge also, which suggests that this is also suitable for ripping, but the advice I was given was just to file at 90degrees.






Both tooth profiles are to be sharpened with the file level (parallel to the floor) or with a slight upward motion, and altering teeth should be filed from each side of the bar i.e. file every other tooth one way and then turn the saw around to file the remaining teeth.

If you have any further questions regarding the use of a chainsaw, I'm sure that there are a number of members far more qualified than myself to answer your question, but I'll do my best.

Caveat - Using chainsaws is very dangerous indeed, and all the necessary safety precautions should be taken before using your saw. I'm not qualified to train anybody in the use of chainsaws and I don't accept any responsibility as to your safety when using one. Please take my advice as just that, and above all use common sense at all times!!

Cheers
Aled


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## Bemused (5 Jan 2012)

Ahha, I see it now, must have jumped the gun a little.
Nice information.
I will see if I can get a picture up of my sharpening jig in the near future, maybe we could show our saws


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## Jonzjob (5 Jan 2012)

As we are on a turning forum this may not be amiss?

On another forum there was a chainsaw pro. Very good at carving with one and very cleaver and renouned tree surgon. He asked me, via the forum, if it would be possible to use a chainsaw coupled with turning. I mean use it on a lathe! I told him that I would send flowers if he did! But if he decided to try to kill himself then he would need to stand behind the lathe to have the chain and the wood turning in opposition :shock: :shock: 

Well, he did try it. The reply to my cries not too was that he would NOT be trying it again! Something like "bleedin terifying" was his description!

The piont is that it is too dangerous even to think of! So don't! Please!


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## dickm (5 Jan 2012)

Hadn't thought of re-sharpening a chain like that. How long did each tooth take with a hand file? 

On a slightly related topic, what has happened to our one-time resident chainsaw expert, the Big Soft Moose?


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## Aled Dafis (5 Jan 2012)

I took just three stroke on each tooth on the first sharpening, which left the shape somewhere between rip and crosscut, and then two or three strokes on the next sharpening shaped the correct rip pattern. Sharpening only takes about 4 or 5 minutes each time, especially with the bar firmly clamped in an engineering vice at the bench.

As with all edge tools, sharpening little and often is much preferred over putting sharpening off and perservering with a blunt tool. Far more accidents happen when forcing blunt tools than when guiding sharp ones!

I'm not sure what happened to BSM but he's probably gone with a few others to the "haven".

Cheers
Aled


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## dickm (5 Jan 2012)

Aled Dafis":1yqv3l3o said:


> I took just three stroke on each tooth on the first sharpening, which left the shape somewhere between rip and crosscut, and then two or three strokes on the next sharpening shaped the correct rip pattern. Sharpening only takes about 4 or 5 minutes each time,



You must have a pretty good file! It takes me all of 2-3 minutes with an Oregon 12V sharpener. Which is, of course, intended to be connected to the battery of your 4x4 pickup truck, and is probably most embarrassed at being hitched to my effete liberal Golf


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## Aled Dafis (5 Jan 2012)

When bought in packs of 6, files work out at around £1 each, so when I feel that the file is no longer cutting, I chuck it. 

I've learnt from teaching engineering for the past 6 years that there's absolutely no gain in using blunt files, they only bring frustration and slow, innacurate work!


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## boysie39 (5 Jan 2012)

Aled Dafis":24k36sc5 said:


> I took just three stroke on each tooth on the first sharpening, which left the shape somewhere between rip and crosscut, and then two or three strokes on the next sharpening shaped the correct rip pattern. Sharpening only takes about 4 or 5 minutes each time, especially with the bar firmly clamped in an engineering vice at the bench.
> 
> As with all edge tools, sharpening little and often is much preferred over putting sharpening off and perservering with a blunt tool. Far more accidents happen when forcing blunt tools than when guiding sharp ones!
> 
> ...


Aled, did you get the Glenn Lucas DVDs for Christmas by any chance :mrgreen:


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## Aled Dafis (5 Jan 2012)

I did indeed, and very good it is too! I've always been an advocate of sharp tools and Glenn reinforced this. I've never been able to sharpen freehand though, despite trying for a while, I much prefer to use my Sorby Proedge - Tool!!

Glenn's DVD has spurred me to try a few things though, I tried roughing out left handed and found it to be quite efficient. I also took delivery of a plain ended Morse Taper spigot today to make one of his drive plates, but need to get back to school next week to turn the pins (modify some M8 stainless bolts). I'm also onthe look out for a 2" and 3" wad punch so that I can cut sanding pads from the standard 6" discs.....


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## Sawyer (5 Jan 2012)

Jonzjob":bb1s16y9 said:


> On another forum there was a chainsaw pro. Very good at carving with one and very cleaver and renouned tree surgon. He asked me, via the forum, if it would be possible to use a chainsaw coupled with turning. I mean use it on a lathe! I told him that I would send flowers if he did! But if he decided to try to kill himself then he would need to stand behind the lathe to have the chain and the wood turning in opposition :shock: :shock:
> 
> Well, he did try it. The reply to my cries not too was that he would NOT be trying it again! Something like "bleedin terifying" was his description!
> 
> The piont is that it is too dangerous even to think of! So don't! Please!


 :shock: Gasp!! :shock: 
Please tell me the bloke doesn't have a spindle moulder! #-o


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## duncanh (6 Jan 2012)

Jonzjob":3lo20m4p said:


> As we are on a turning forum this may not be amiss?
> 
> On another forum there was a chainsaw pro. Very good at carving with one and very cleaver and renouned tree surgon. He asked me, via the forum, if it would be possible to use a chainsaw coupled with turning. I mean use it on a lathe! I told him that I would send flowers if he did! But if he decided to try to kill himself then he would need to stand behind the lathe to have the chain and the wood turning in opposition :shock: :shock:
> 
> ...



I saw a video of someone doing this. They had build a jig (I think) that held the chainsaw and enabled it to slide along the length of the lathe. Can't remember if the wood turned into it or away from it but it was scary. It did appear to work fairly well though - although that's not a good reason to do it. DON'T!


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## chipmunk (6 Jan 2012)

I think using a chainsaw on the lathe must be up there with collecting car sump numbers on the M1 :wink: 

He sounds lucky to walk away from the experiment.

Thanks Aled. It's a useful post for those of us wanting to rip logs.

When using your rip chain are you still cutting with the saw angled along the log or is the saw cutting truly perpendicular to the log?

Jon


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## Jonzjob (6 Jan 2012)

Apart form being slightly mental he did walk away from it a bit wiser and I don't think he will be trying it again!

I did tell him NTO to try it in the first place, but there's always one!


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## Aled Dafis (6 Jan 2012)

chipmunk":18n7q5oy said:


> I think using a chainsaw on the lathe must be up there with collecting car sump numbers on the M1 :wink:
> 
> He sounds lucky to walk away from the experiment.
> 
> ...



Yes I use the saw perpendicular to the log.

Here's a pic of how it's done with a proper chainsaw ripping mill.






http://www.alaskanmill.co.uk

Cheers
Aled


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## chipmunk (6 Jan 2012)

Aled, Thanks. 

I think I can see why in a chainsaw mill they'd want to do it that way but I wonder whether there'd still be an advantage in angling the saw down for a hand-held use. This is the way I've found works best with a cross-cut chain in the past so that the shavings are longer and I see from your pile of shavings that's what you were doing (I think). Did you experiment by any chance?

I think that even with a hand rip saw you'd still tend to angle the saw but I'm not sure how much of that is about efficiency and how much is comfort :? 

Jon


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## nev (6 Jan 2012)

my instruction book and experience say to cut along the log (C) or as close to as the saw permits. much quicker and safer than A with the std chain config.










usual disclaimer: i didnt say do it, i said thats how i do it!


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## chipmunk (6 Jan 2012)

Hi Nev,
Yes that's my experience with a standard chain too - and I think to be fair Aled's other thread on cutting the laburnum suggests that's how he did it before regrinding his cross-cut chain to a rip tooth profile.

My question relates to the best way to use the rip chain and whether there might be an advantage to angling the saw in those cuts too.
Jon


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## boysie39 (6 Jan 2012)

Forget using your chainsaw on the lathe !! I can do as much damage with turning tools :shock: :shock:   

I have just guntered two lovely bowl blanks #-o #-o First real effort since last June and seem to have forgotten the little bit that I did know. :shock: 

Oh well back to the drawing board.


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## Bemused (6 Jan 2012)

A pic of my sharpening jig
Works very well for me.


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## Aled Dafis (6 Jan 2012)

chipmunk":2zoduap5 said:


> Hi Nev,
> Yes that's my experience with a standard chain too - and I think to be fair Aled's other thread on cutting the laburnum suggests that's how he did it before regrinding his cross-cut chain to a rip tooth profile.
> 
> My question relates to the best way to use the rip chain and whether there might be an advantage to angling the saw in those cuts too.
> Jon




Yes that's exactly right, I used cut C on my first few cuts with a crosscuting chain, but swithced to cut A with the ripping profile. The chips produced are completely different by the way, croscutting chain produces long ribbons, whereas ripping chain produces a much finer sawdust.

As regards anging the saw with ripping chain, I honestly don't know, but I doubt it, otherwise somebody would have developed a milling rig that uses that to it's advantage.

Cheers
Aled


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## Aled Dafis (6 Jan 2012)

Bemused":28guijbr said:


> A pic of my sharpening jig
> Works very well for me.



Nice jig, I've never used one, I'm sure that it's able to produce a nice accurate tooth profile in no time. From a hobbyists point of view however, a simple file in a guide is cosiderably cheaper and with a little practice and 10minutes tutoring, is quite effective.

Edit: I've just looked that type of grinder up on the 'bay and was quite surprised how cheap they are, you can pick one up for about £30-35. Still more expensive than a file and guide, but not wildly so.


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## chipmunk (6 Jan 2012)

Aled,
Thanks. I'll have to buy a second chain sometime and have a go.
Jon


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## Aled Dafis (6 Jan 2012)

No worries. 

http://www.chainsdirect.co.uk seem to have competitive prices, free delivery and a wide variety of chains. I've never used them, it's just a website that I bookmarked when doing a little web research this week.

Cheers
Aled


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## dickm (6 Jan 2012)

KwikChip are pretty good on price, too. Also service isn't bad. Terry Bass in Hereford is knowledgeable about chains for obscure saws, but a bit more expensive.


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## Richard T (8 Jan 2012)

Although the picture of the mill shows the saw at a point of perpendicularness, he will still be using the dogs on the saw to 'lever' it along, pushing the nose end along to cut to 45 degrees + then bringing the handle back to perp. 
At work we had a saw with a double ended guide bar with a saw on either end - sounds like a good idea but you can't lever it - you rely on the extra power of the two engines and we found it's better to use one good saw with the dogging action. (Though for more info on this, to google 'dogging action' is probably inadvisable.)
Re the angle of teeth for ripping, I keep my general purpose Stihl somewhere between the two as I find the recommended CC angle too much; that is it cuts more than it can cope with especially with the likes of green Poplar, Willow et al that have very expansive chips when cut and the raking ability of the chain just ain't enough. 
Come to think of it, same with my 064 with its 30" bed that only gets used for CC.


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## davebrac (8 Jan 2012)

I have a couple of sawmills that use chainsaws and also hand rip cut.

Professional (bespoke) ripping chains are sharpened to 10 or 15 deg, l find the 10 deg works better on hard woods. One word about bought ripping chains is that the do not have as good anti kick back links as cross cutting chains so l would think for small scale work changing the angle from 30 would be a better option.
http://www.chainsdirect.co.uk/Category/ ... hains.aspx

The variation to the 10-15 deg is the new grandenberg ripping chains that have a cutting angle of 0 deg but they also have two scorers to each cutter, l have kept away from these as it seems more complicated to sharpen at different angles for the cutting and scoring
http://www.alaskanmill.co.uk/Faqs.aspx#6

couple of points on ripping chains the depth gage is important you need to use a progressive depth gauge tool like the calton it is amazing the difference this makes
http://www.newsawchains.co.uk/Carlton-File-O-Plate-40mm


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## Aled Dafis (8 Jan 2012)

Thanks for your input guys, it's good to hear from more experienced users than myself, to learn how the pros go about their work and the nuances between different chains etc.


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## davebrac (8 Jan 2012)

Here is a photo of one of my setups this was a piece of spalted beech


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