# Titan shredder Honda 13hp engine problems



## mickthetree (19 Jul 2015)

Does anyone have any experience with honda 13hp OHV engines? One fitted to my titan (clone) chipper shredder. Beast of a machine when it works!

Starting it was no great drama when I first got it secondhand off ebay, but it has become harder and harder to get going. Nice video on cleaning the carb on youtube which I followed. There was indeed some gumph in the float chamber pin which I cleaned out but still no joy.

When trying to start it fuel spills out of the exhaust without starting.

There is a strange gasket between the the carb and the housing which seems to just leave a channel for the fuel to leak straight out. This was filled with some sort of foam gasket when I first took it apart and was soaked in fuel. This looked like a bodge someone had done at some point, but maybe it is supposed to be there? I used blue gasket sealer for carbs. This has stopped the fuel coming out of this channel now, but instead it comes out of the exhaust as I mentioned.

I cant seem to find any articles on line about overhauling these or even parts diagrams.

Any help here would be greatly appreciated.


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## MMUK (19 Jul 2015)

Doesn't sound like a genuine Honda engine from your description. Can you post some photos?

Is it 2 or 4 stroke? Have you got a spark?


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## dickm (19 Jul 2015)

My chipper clone also has a "Honda" engine (6 hp) which is an exact replica of the real thing, but isn't. Previous owner had broken some bits on it, which have now been replaced with secondhand real Honda bits from local lawnmower mechanic. So might be worth trying that route? Problem with new genuine Honda bits is they would probably cost more than the engine is worth! I've got a spare real Honda 6hp, but that wouldn't be powerful enough for your machine.


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## blackrodd (19 Jul 2015)

I have a couple of these clone engines and they are a very good copy and work well I've found.
The only difficulty was in starting one of them, it wouldn't start as the first one easily did, then I discovered
the engine has an auto decompressor and if the exhaust valve tappet became slack, the decompresssor surely 
did not, nearly ripped you're arm off!
Here's a gx390 pdf.manual download on page 2.
http://www.citypassclub.com/guides/4Xx/ ... manual.pdf

Regards Rodders


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## Flynnwood (19 Jul 2015)

If it's a GX390 as Rodders suggest, here's the manufacturers page:
http://engines.honda.com/parts-and-supp ... uals/GX390

Since you have fuel passing through, the next think to check is if there is a spark at the plug (take it out and earth it by grounding/resting on the head or somewhere similar, reconnect and try and start the engine). If there isn't a spark between the electrodes, try another spark plug first.


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## mickthetree (19 Jul 2015)

Hi Chaps

Thanks all for the info and the link to the documents. I just couldnt find them when googling.

I found another youtubevideo. I picked up some carb cleaner and got it all back together. It is now running again, although still fiddly to get going.

There is definitely a spark. have done as you suggested already. I did give the spark plug a clean up too.

I'll have to checkout the exhaust valve tappet as it did nearly tear my arm off when trying to start it. I had to take the spark plug out to release the pressure to start with, but after that it did turn over and start.

It is a fantastic machine once it gets going. 20 minutes and I had ploughed through a big pile of branches from a horse chestnut I took down 6 months ago.
Thanks again.


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## blackrodd (19 Jul 2015)

If it's any help, The tappets are 6 thou inlet and 8 thou exhaust, I presume at TDC, according to this, --
http://outdoorpowerinfo.com/engine_spec ... e_gaps.asp
Or metric is there if you prefer.
Regards Rodders


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## mickthetree (5 Oct 2015)

After having this running recently it stopped running and now wont start. There is now no spark so I'm thinking ignition coil???

I've found a chap selling spares but they dont seem particularly common.


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## Beau (5 Oct 2015)

Got the GX 390 on one of my machines. Not that it will help you spark issues but the filter at the bottom of the fuel tank gets easily blocked. To clean it you need to remove the fuel tank and its attached to a nylon nut on the bottom of it.


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## mickthetree (5 Oct 2015)

Many thanks Beau. when I remove the spark plug and pull the starter a goodly splash of fuel comes out of the hole so I'm guessing that is ok. Holding the spark plug against the casing shows no spark so I think it lies there.
Thanks though.


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## blackrodd (5 Oct 2015)

Make sure the on/off switch is not faulty, it goes to dead short to earth to shut off. 
Take the wire from the oil watch switch, Failing that and getting a new spark plug and still dead
You'll need one of these coils, link below, Make sure it IS the right one for you're GX390
Regards Rodders

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Ignition- ... 33856968e2


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## Lons (5 Oct 2015)

I'm no mechanic but absolutely detest engines that won't start and had my share, Recently my Honda ride on started ok but continuously "hunted" and backfired. My fault as I hadn't drained the tank fully so carb gets gummed up so bought a cleaner spray, got it running and a few sprays into the air cleaner. spluttered a bit but sorted and no further problems to date.

I have a HD Makita chainsaw which wouldn't start whatever I tried, did all the checks including spark test until at my wits end dropped in to a guy I know at a local tool hire company. He looked at it, stuck in a new spark plug and it started first time then said the spark test isn't reliable. :? 

Bob


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## Beau (5 Oct 2015)

Rodders touches on it but if the oil level is low it won't start.

I got caught out with this when working the machine on an angle


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## blackrodd (5 Oct 2015)

Lons":9dlmttis said:



> I'm no mechanic but absolutely detest engines that won't start and had my share, Recently my Honda ride on started ok but continuously "hunted" and backfired. My fault as I hadn't drained the tank fully so carb gets gummed up so bought a cleaner spray, got it running and a few sprays into the air cleaner. spluttered a bit but sorted and no further problems to date.
> 
> I have a HD Makita chainsaw which wouldn't start whatever I tried, did all the checks including spark test until at my wits end dropped in to a guy I know at a local tool hire company. He looked at it, stuck in a new spark plug and it started first time then said the spark test isn't reliable. :?
> 
> Bob



When you check the spark against the engine, you're looking for a red/blue spark, for the engine to go,
A white yellowy spark wont fire up in the cylinder under compression.
And as someone mentioned (beau)?with the honda GX range, and Oil Watch, there has to be enough oil in the engine and the engine on flat level ground to work, or the oil level float switch inside the sump will stop the engine firing or running at all.
I had a honda 535 for 7 years, sold that 4 years ago, bought a hayter harrier, both among the best you can buy.
I forget to service either, take out the petrol etc, but each year, season's first time start is petrol down the carb, first or second pull, it starts, rest of the season first or second pull every time.
Regards Rodders


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## Lons (5 Oct 2015)

> I had a honda 535 for 7 years, sold that 4 years ago, bought a hayter harrier, both among the best you can buy.
> I forget to service either, take out the petrol etc, but each year, season's first time start is petrol down the carb, first or second pull, it starts, rest of the season first or second pull every time.
> Regards Rodders



I'm pretty sure that my ordinary mower is an HRD535 Rodders, the one with the roller and aloy deck. Bought it in July 2000 for £745 when the list price was around £1100 but the cost still shocked me at the time however in all that time it's had only one professional service (I do my own) and a couple of new blades. It's as reliable today as it was new and I have a pretty large lawn.

The tractor is an HF 2417 and is pretty impressive though twice the price of many of similar size.

Bob


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## blackrodd (6 Oct 2015)

That's the one Lons, hydrostatic drive, ally deck, my biker mate loves them, runs his own horticultural supply and repair shop, he services these machines, chainsaws etc, 
He says the drive system is good but will not stand rough treatment like banging up and down steps, etc,
So looks though you've looked after you're well! They still go for fair money today.
My Hayter is much lighter and a simple belt drive, doddle to work on!
Regards Rodders


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## mickthetree (6 Oct 2015)

Many thanks guys. Hopefully I'm armed with some good knowledge to get this great machine back up and running. Got a few more jobs for it then I can sell it on.


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## Eric The Viking (6 Oct 2015)

I hate small engines for starting, like others, had to deal with my share.

The notable exception is Honda's CG125 engine* which is almost bomb proof, but it's a very simple 4-stroke. I think that GX engine in the video has the same air filter as the CG, obviously piped differently though. Love the way the guy just lifts off the gaskets!

Small things do flood horribly, especially 2-strokes. We used to run two industrial Flymos with 125 2-strokes with diaphragm carbs (have to work on all kinds of slopes). You really do need to flush them for the winter, but you can help starting by thoroughly warming the end of the plug on a gas ring first (go gently to avoid damaging the ceramic). They might misfire at first, but they will start, and then settle down. 

We had a 15- or 20cc strimmer ("Paice-Setter") that I never got running really well. It was a complete pig to start. My dad gave it to me the last time they moved house, and I keep intending to have a look at it properly, but mostly it just gets moved from one cupboard to another. It's another 'stroker.

E.

PS: I'd use meths, not WD40 to clean the carb - dissolves any varnishes properly - WD won't and it will leave residue too.

*(makes sign of holy pushrods)


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## Lons (6 Oct 2015)

Eric The Viking":3tvj9ck5 said:


> PS: I'd use meths, not WD40 to clean the carb - dissolves any varnishes properly - WD won't and it will leave residue too.
> 
> *(makes sign of holy pushrods)


Eric
The spray I bought was choke and carb cleaner,
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221810899958? ... EBIDX%3AIT
is meths better than that?

Bob


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## Eric The Viking (6 Oct 2015)

Lons":348fvah8 said:


> Eric The Viking":348fvah8 said:
> 
> 
> > PS: I'd use meths, not WD40 to clean the carb - dissolves any varnishes properly - WD won't and it will leave residue too.
> ...



I doubt it - proper carb cleaner would be far better, although you do need to watch/remove the O-rings, etc. with that stuff as it usually has some "quite fun" solvents in it.

I was responding to the chap in the video, who seemed to attack the thing with WD40. It probably would dissolve the varnishes, but it also leaves a lot of gunge of its own behind.

I was surprised how well meths works on its own recently, doing the petcocks on my Beemer (R80). The filters were almost completely gunged up, but it cleaned them really well. You can strip them, but they're really awkward to reassemble, and I think meths is gentle enough to do the job properly without upsetting the rubber seals.

It's my own stupid fault, I left some fuel in the tank for way too long. It smelled horrid when I did get round to draining it and it now needs the proper POR15 treatment to clean up the inside of the tank and prevent it rusting again. Thankfully there's no leak and the tank is still sound - just rather rusty inside.

 

E.


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## Lons (6 Oct 2015)

Sounds like fun Eric.


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## Eric The Viking (7 Oct 2015)

It would be, but it's a huge tank, and I'm not at all keen on the idea of shaking it about full of something very caustic and lots of gravel. I've been putting it off for over a year now - I'm keeping the tank dry and warm so it won't get worse, but I need to make some sort of jig to mount it so I can invert it to agitate the chemistry and pour stuff out again.

It's made worse by the fact that BMW painted the inside of the tank, and it's that layer which failed. I first noticed specks of the interior paint in the float bowls, and in the petcock filters, several years ago, but stupidly ignored it. So all the interior paint has to come off before de-rusting, then passivating/priming (chromate, I think), and then re-coating the inside, all without gumming up the petcock holes or getting any stripper on the outside, as a respray would be beyond my budget. 

The petcock holes are really difficult, too, as they're a wide, fine, non-standard male thread on the tank (each petcock's 'nut' has both left- and right-hand threads on it that meet in the middle). Because of all the chemicals, I've a horrid feeling that each chemical will need different bungs, as at least one stage will probably dissolve anything rubber or plastic.

Call me a coward...

E.


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## Racers (7 Oct 2015)

I have seen pictures of people using electrolysis to de-rust bike petrol tanks, could be worth a try.

Pete


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## Eric The Viking (7 Oct 2015)

Yup. There are a couple of YouTube videos, too. 

But I have to remove crud, rust, and what remains of BMW's original paint too, before treating it properly. If it was easy I'd have done it already :-(

The bike should look like this:





But mine has a single front disc and pot guards, shorter screen and the blue is slightly darker (more off-black really). Same luggage tho.

I'm seriously considering giving it to the pros to sort out. but as I said, I'm really trying to avoid a respray, as it matches the fairing, and the back fairing, and the side panels, etc., and it could all end up horribly expensive if I'm not extremely careful.

To make matters worse, it's dark metallic blue. When I got the bike, years ago, the bottom fairing panel was smashed under the LH pot ("they all do that, sir"), and by some fluke I managed to match it in pretty well by lightly overspraying metallic blue and black with lacquer on top. I'm still amazed I got away with it, but that was all cellulose paints, and almost out of sight under the pot, too.

The original BMW design was OK-ish, but fitting the official pot guards - a very sensible idea, as I've found out on several occasions - involves making holes in the fairing that really weaken it and make it very hard to put on and remove (without cracking it). Or you curse a lot, take the pot guards off first, and still struggle with getting the weakened fairing piece over the cylinder head.

The petcocks are like these (minus the rust stains!):




The nut at the top is the special double-threaded one. The gauze filters go round those top pipes, too, which makes the diameter of the tank hole critical. So another problem is that I need to coat it, but can't let the goo accumulate there.

I ought to strip the faring and get it all re-sprayed really (you can still get the decals, and I have most of them just in case), but it would cost more than the bike is worth, probably. Mind you, those tanks are on the bay in well-used condition for over $300, so maybe it's an investment...


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