# External Door frame



## Dibs-h (20 Feb 2010)

I'm had a fair look on the old tinternet and not come away with much. I'm familar with internal door casings, but very familiar with external ones - can anyone point me in the direction of what the specifics of the joints between the jamb and header are, and if different the ones between jamb and cill?

I've got the timber cut to size so will need to crack on with these tomorrow.

Also I have a stone cill - so my thinking is the type of cill that is say 130 wide - i.e. prodtrudes past the jambs (in the way a window cill protrudes past the frame) won't look right? If it won't look right - what then?

Edit - looking at our front door (which also has a stone cill) - there doesn't seem to be a wooden cill - more like something the door closes against (and you have to step over) and the weatherbar thingy closes over.


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## toolsntat (20 Feb 2010)

If not using a wooden cill the Gemini low profile threshold is a great bit of kit and if you take a lot of rain put a rain deflector on the door just above it(not on these pics)....











For the head to jamb joint you need to look at a stopped 3/4" mortise and tenon positioned in the rebate 

A seal for the door to close against is recommended also
http://www.reddiseals.com/acatalog/drau ... eries.html


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## Max Power (21 Feb 2010)

Id second the previous reply re aluminium thresh, and smart looking door by the way


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## Dibs-h (21 Feb 2010)

Alan Jones":3jgr92xa said:


> Id second the previous reply re aluminium thresh, and smart looking door by the way



Many thanks chaps - I suspect I'd get away with using the domino from the sounds of it. :lol:

Thankfully the stiles have been left overlong - so won't end up with a short door - i.e. sort of sized it for a cill, but the stiles are at least 4" longer than needed.


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## Dibs-h (23 Feb 2010)

The door frame is coming along - the intention is to reinforce the frame - i.e. not have any keeps (if that's the right term) in the jamb but laminate a piece of 5mm steel bar (the full width), with slots cut out in the appropriate place to engage with the strikers.

Now this will be laminated to the timber with epoxy and screws every now and then for extra measure. The whole lot will be bolted thru to the concrete.

Now the initial thoughts were to just have it on the 2 jambs and header and not the cill. Now should I have the corners welded prior to epoxying it to the timber? And would I be better off having a piece across the cill as well? And would it be better to weld that at the corners to the uprights - in essence creating a metal frame.

The only reason I can see for the welds is for the metal to transfer any shock load right round and therefore be better at resisting an attack, than if the reinforcement was not continuous.


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## jpt (23 Feb 2010)

Cant help with the door etc but what I would recomend is hinge bolts HERE saved me some heartache a couple of times.

john


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## Dibs-h (11 Mar 2010)

Many thanks for the pointers. Another question? What would you fix it to the opening with? The opening is 7N concrete blocks.

1. 1st idea was to drill thru the frame, thru into the blockwork, inject resin into the block, with a threaded stud and nut it up.

2. 2nd idea is a sleeve anchor (which is going to be easier), something like one of these puppies, 






http://www.screwfix.com/prods/83770/Fix ... Pack-of-20

I'm erring towards Idea 2 - also with 1 in every course of block as opposed to 2-3 in each side and 1 in the top. I realise that might be overkill - but can't see a downside to it - other than time and the nbr of fixings used. Any thoughts\advice?


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## Petiegolfer (11 Mar 2010)

Dibs

I recommend these...

http://www.rapierstar.com/prod_fix.asp

I used them to fix the legers on the deck I built recently.

I got them from here...

http://www.toolsxtra.com/prodtype.asp?P ... istory=cat

which is rapierstars wholesale outfit.

100 fixings for £15! A lot cheaper than bolts!!

They are simple easy and quick to put in.... only advice is to make the pilot hole deep enough. Do a test with a 6 and 6.5mm pilot hole.

Pre drill the frame, level and then go at it with the SDS straight through the holes in the frame, then bang the fixing in with an impactdriver.

You could put them in every 2-300mm and they would have to destroy the frame / wall down to get in! By which time you would have asked Ma to bring the shotgun!  

Piers


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## SNight (11 Mar 2010)

I would second what Petiegolfer has said as the anchor bolts in my opinion are over the top for fixing a door frame. I would just use normal frame fixings. Make sure you level the stile and place packers just above or below each fixing before screwing them home, to keep your jamb nice and straight. I would then go all the way around the frame with expanding foam to provide extra fixing, and close up the gap before sealing.


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## Simon (11 Mar 2010)

When we installed my brothers front door a few years back we shimmed and spaced the door frame into place and then used expanding foam across the whole width of the frame all around. The intention was to then use frame anchors once the foam had set. 

However we found that the foam set so well and the frame was so rigid and immovable that we never did bother to frame anchor it, that was about seven years ago. 

The door as a chunky Douglas Fir number hung on three hinges so he kept checking for any movement, it is still as solid as the day we put it in. 

hth Simon


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## Dibs-h (12 Mar 2010)

Thanks chaps - managed to find someone local'ish that stocks those Rapierstar screws - about the same price as the wholesale link kindly supplied and more importantly open tomorrow am.

Will be foaming it as well. It's had the 3 coats of primer and the 3rd coat of topcoat should have dried by this morning. So will be looking to fix it tomorrow.


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## dexter (12 Mar 2010)

Just a thought Dibs, Have you considered having the door as an outward opener? No amount of kicking or bodily pressure is going to open it and to prize it open you would need to force a bar etc into the gap between the door and frame the whole depth of the door and then use considerable leverage. None of this is quick or quiet.
The only tool we used when executing search warrants etc on premises with outward opening doors was a `hooligan bar` and that had first to be knocked in using a sledge hammer or small ram (battering not woolly!) it`s also 4 feet long. 
A metal cover strip the length of the locking stile that covers the gap will also add to the burglars problems and a rack bolt top and bottom would give even more security. 
You even save a bit of space inside the shop.

Dex


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## Dibs-h (12 Mar 2010)

Looked into the threshold strip and no-one locally seems to do the Gemini, only mail order - although found someone local who has some Macclex thresholds in stock - by a company called Exitex. The one I actually prefer - would take around 10 working days to arrive (from Ireland). So gone with a slight variant,






Comes with the weather bar and at 1220 long means I don't have to cut much off and in stock! And at <£20 all in - can't complain.

Annoying thing is that the firm is in Keighley and the one for the concrete screws is in Brighouse - 2 opposite ends of town!

Just noticed that Screwfix do them (at twice the price) and do a Price match thingy - left the branch manager the details and lets see what he has to say.

*Edit:* Result! Screwfix rung the other firm and matched the price - so no early morning run out of town one way, back in and then out the other way. Just the one run to Keighley for the strip.


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## Dibs-h (12 Mar 2010)

dexter":2tej952x said:


> Just a thought Dibs, Have you considered having the door as an outward opener? No amount of kicking or bodily pressure is going to open it and to prize it open you would need to force a bar etc into the gap between the door and frame the whole depth of the door and then use considerable leverage. None of this is quick or quiet.
> The only tool we used when executing search warrants etc on premises with outward opening doors was a `hooligan bar` and that had first to be knocked in using a sledge hammer or small ram (battering not woolly!) it`s also 4 feet long.
> A metal cover strip the length of the locking stile that covers the gap will also add to the burglars problems and a rack bolt top and bottom would give even more security.
> You even save a bit of space inside the shop.
> ...



I did think of that - early on it was suggested that the outward opening door would be more prone to attack than in inward one and therefore less secure. So I've gone with an inward opening one. But the frame is rather chunkier than normal, a 5mmx70mm metal strip has been inset into the jamb (recess) for the door - all the way round and welded in the corners. The door locks engage with cutouts in this strip as do the 10mm hinge pins embedded in the door and mating with holes in the hinge side.

I would have thought that set up would take a substantial beating to get thru.


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