# Using a hacksaw cutting big(gish) stuff. Or how to saw a railway line.



## pe2dave

My thanks to @AES for this piece. I too was shown how to use a hacksaw, but had never tackled anything big(gish).
Last week I picked up a 12" piece of railway line and decided it was over weighty, hence wanted to cut it in half.
After advice I rejected using my chop saw (for wood), I don't have a 9" angle grinder, even my 4.5" had me running
scared (sparks and wood shavings), hence I resorted to a 12" hacksaw.
Lessons: As my father said, let the saw do the work. As @AES said, teeth pointing to the front (contra my metalwork
teachers advice). I marked the rail all the way round (ideally in white pencil). File (triangular file) a mark to get started straight.
Watched the line as I cut, trying to keep the blade parallel to the line. Worked in 30 minute sessions, after which I started
to get impatient rather than tired. Don't hold the saw in a grip of death (do as I say, not as I kept doing).
Use a fair to middling stiff saw frame. Mines a 50 yo Eclipse. Use least number of TPI you can get hold of. I started with
a 24 tpi blade (waiting for Amazon to deliver 18) and managed 12mm per 30mins.
I'll add photographs when I have some.


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## paulrbarnard

The most important bit is to ensure no trains are coming. Safety first!


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## Rorschach

I'd have phoned a local blacksmith shop and got them to stick it on their bandsaw, couldn't be hacksawing something that big. Well I never do because I own a bandsaw but if I didn't I would find someone who did.


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## pe2dave

@Rorschach £££


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## Alpha-Dave

I was looking at powered hacksaws a few weeks ago on the usual second hand sites (ebay, Gumtree, Facebook) and saw one that was surprisingly cheap for its size. In the description it described it as a saw for cutting railway track in-place. It was powered by an attached engine, diesel I think. So good work doing what that machine was designed to do!


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## Rorschach

pe2dave said:


> @Rorschach £££



I'd bet they wouldn't charge much more than you paid for a new pack of hacksaw blades. Or you might have found a local chap willing to do it for beer. I'd have happily done it for you for a few bottles of ale.


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## AES

pe2dave said:


> My thanks to @AES for this piece. I too was shown how to use a hacksaw, but had never tackled anything big(gish).
> Last week I picked up a 12" piece of railway line and decided it was over weighty, hence wanted to cut it in half.
> After advice I rejected using my chop saw (for wood), I don't have a 9" angle grinder, even my 4.5" had me running
> scared (sparks and wood shavings), hence I resorted to a 12" hacksaw.
> Lessons: As my father said, let the saw do the work. As @AES said, teeth pointing to the front (contra my metalwork
> teachers advice). I marked the rail all the way round (ideally in white pencil). File (triangular file) a mark to get started straight.
> Watched the line as I cut, trying to keep the blade parallel to the line. Worked in 30 minute sessions, after which I started
> to get impatient rather than tired. Don't hold the saw in a grip of death (do as I say, not as I kept doing).
> Use a fair to middling stiff saw frame. Mines a 50 yo Eclipse. Use least number of TPI you can get hold of. I started with
> a 24 tpi blade (waiting for Amazon to deliver 18) and managed 12mm per 30mins.
> I'll add photographs when I have some.



Well done pe2dave! Not sure I would have wanted to attack a bit of railway line with a hacksaw, and sorry you had to work with "only" a 24 tpi (that's the trouble with most shops - even those for the professionals - as I said in my diatribe, I find it very difficult to get 18 tpi off the shelf, and 14's seem to have disappeared altogether.

I remember reading on here sometime earlier about a metalwork teacher saying that the teeth should always point backwards. Was that you/your teacher? Anyway, I hesitate to say "complete nonsense" (your teacher must have got that idea from somewhere) but I've never tried that, and it goes completely against all I was taught, plus every book or article I've ever seen on the subject.

Anyway, I assume you got there in the end, so as said, well done mate. I'll refrain from the usual "more power to your elbow" - you probably won't appreciate that comment right now.


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## pe2dave

AES said:


> Well done pe2dave! Not sure I would have wanted to attack a bit of railway line with a hacksaw, and sorry you had to work with "only" a 24 tpi (that's the trouble with most shops - even those for the professionals - as I said in my diatribe, I find it very difficult to get 18 tpi off the shelf, and 14's seem to have disappeared altogether.
> 
> I remember reading on here sometime earlier about a metalwork teacher saying that the teeth should always point backwards. Was that you/your teacher? Anyway, I hesitate to say "complete nonsense" (your teacher must have got that idea from somewhere) but I've never tried that, and it goes completely against all I was taught, plus every book or article I've ever seen on the subject.
> 
> Anyway, I assume you got there in the end, so as said, well done mate. I'll refrain from the usual "more power to your elbow" - you probably won't appreciate that comment right now.


Have attached photo to top post. through the bulk (top 2").
14tpi on order, enjoying 'learning how to...' ;-) 
So far, seems to be straight?
Trial and error, found that thumb weight on front 'hook' of saw on forward stroke, weight off drawing it back - seems to 'bite' more?
(Or gives that impression).
Neck shades down to 1/2" - when I get there, I'm home and dry ;-)


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## Rorschach

Hope you don't mean putting your hand/thumb within the "loop" of the saw frame. You can seriously injure yourself if the blade snaps, don't ask me how I know.


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## Trainee neophyte

I can't get hacksaw blades that aren't made of cheese, and my angle grinder motor died a smoky death the other day, so I have started using my Lidl reciprocating saw with with a metal cutting blade. It works surprisingly well. Just as neat as a hacksaw.

Just in case you have something similar to hand...


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## pe2dave

Trainee neophyte said:


> I can't get hacksaw blades that aren't made of cheese, and my angle grinder motor died a smoky death the other day, so I have started using my Lidl reciprocating saw with with a metal cutting blade. It works surprisingly well. Just as neat as a hacksaw.
> 
> Just in case you have something similar to hand...


Using Eclipse blades (Amazon), seem OK. 
Yes, I've a (monster) reciprocating saw... Wickes own brand. I can't see the blades being 'well made' though.
Thanks for the suggestion, not thought of it (seriously, for such a big job).


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## gmercer_48083

I can only imagine how difficult it is to cut the rail with a hack saw. I would only consider using a 12" gas powered cut off saw using metal cutting blades. Readily available for rent here in the USA.


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## pe2dave

OK @gmercer_48083 I'm 73, not an athlete (<grin/>). I'm happy to 'take my time' and do a proper job.
YMMV.


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## Jameshow

Bahco blades should be half decent. 

Cheers James


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## gmercer_48083

Sterling makes high quality blades for hack saws and reciprocating saws (sawzall and jig saws) and may be available in UK. But the reciprocating blade are thicker than hack saw blades, and would jam in the hacksaw kerf you have cut already. It makes me tired just thinking about what you have already accomplished.


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## pe2dave

gmercer_48083 said:


> Sterling makes high quality blades for hack saws and reciprocating saws (sawzall and jig saws) and may be available in UK. But the reciprocating blade are thicker than hack saw blades, and would jam in the hacksaw kerf you have cut already. It makes me tired just thinking about what you have already accomplished.


 Drat! Too late, I'm an inch into it by now.
@Trainee neophyte - You should have shouted sooner ;-)
(I am wondering if the 18tpi blades I have on order may suffer from the same issue)


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## gmercer_48083

You may be able to widen the kerf using a 4" grinder with metal cut off wheels to that depth... to keep reciprocating blades from jamming.

NOTE: Use oil to keep the saw blades cool for longer life.


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## AES

Above you've referred to 18 tpi and then 14 tpi blades. IME 18 tpi's are "orderable" but 14s are not. Have you found a source for 14s or was it just a typo?

BTW, does anyone know what railway line is made of (serious Q)! I'd imagine a somewhat harder than usual "mild steel", in which case I think we all take our hats off to pe2dave don't we fellas? (I'll have a go at most things with a hacksaw - often no other choice - but "Your'e a better man than I am Gunda Din")!


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## AES

Trainee neophyte said:


> I can't get hacksaw blades that aren't made of cheese, and my angle grinder motor died a smoky death the other day, so I have started using my Lidl reciprocating saw with with a metal cutting blade. It works surprisingly well. Just as neat as a hacksaw.
> 
> Just in case you have something similar to hand...




Instead of cheese buy Starrett, Eclipse, or Bahco/Sandvik - if not off the shelf in Greece, then mail/internet.

On what material/s and size/s do you use Lidl recip saw?


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## pe2dave

AES said:


> Above you've referred to 18 tpi and then 14 tpi blades. IME 18 tpi's are "orderable" but 14s are not.



14tpi was preferred, for bigger jobs (see link in Original post). Likely a typo. I have 18tpi on order.
See this piece (provided by another reader for rly line steel.

Now through the top 'bulk' of the rail.


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## Inspector

We can get 14tpi blades here so I don't see why you can't get them there. This was the first place I looked on line. I know I can get them locally at the machiningl tooling suppliers.


https://www.amazon.ca/Tools-Hacksaw-12-inch-10-Pack-20143V214HE/dp/B004J11DHU



Pete

Adding that there are metal cutting blades made for reciprocating/sawsall saws but I have never tried mine on anything bigger than 3" pipe. If you have one or can borrow one it might be worth a shot.


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## clogs

I heard a while ago the Chinese bought huge amounts of used UK rail line and turned into decent scissors.....(after going private)..
rail line is very high quality steel.....
confermation....?


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## AES

Thanks Dave for the link to what rlwy line really is. I note that in that piece the writer says something along the lines of "this is not the sort of steel to try and cut with a hacksaw, but if you do have a go send me a pic 'cos I'm always up for a laugh". So you really ARE doing well there mate!

@clogs - look above at the link pe2dave answered me with when I asked the same question (above).

@Inspector: It may only be in my locality, but I have 3 professional tools stores within reasonable distance (+ 3 x DIY places). Without exception, all 6 only have 24 tpi on the shelf, 18 and 32 can be ordered. I've got a couple of 14s still left but last time I asked (in one of the professional's places) they told me "not available".

I'm not dying for any 14s at the moment (and I'm certainly NOT cutting any railway track!) but just for my info, who makes your 14s please, and are they stocked in a "common" store or do you have to go looking (not that I'm likely to go walking down any Canadian High Streets in the near future).


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## TFrench

I'm near Leicester Dave, bring it over and I'll stick it in the bandsaw for you!


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## pe2dave

TFrench said:


> I'm near Leicester Dave, bring it over and I'll stick it in the bandsaw for you!


Many thanks for the kind offer - I've sawn through the first 2" now, may as well finish it.


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## Phil Pascoe

I think I'd have found a man with acetylene.


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## Ttrees

Good work, I would have thought that wouldn't cut with the hacksaw.
And with a cheaper blade at that.
Those Eclipse ones never seem to last for me, although that maybe due to my blade breaker ball vices.


I read before those tracks have manganese in them, don't know if this is the reason, but apparently tracks are quite valuable on the scrap market.

Many a backyard blacksmith has sought the stuff out, so it must be getting a bit rare.
You did well to get some.


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## Inspector

The Amazon link I posted has Lenox as does an industrial supplier here of all manner of tools and supplies. https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/BLADE-HACK-TUFF-TOOTH-12X14T-10-PK/p/LNX20143
Another has Nickolson





Fastenal Industrial Supplies, OEM Fasteners, Safety Products & More


Fastenal is the largest fastener distributor in North America. Shop our huge selection of OEM, MRO, construction, industrial, and safety products.




www.fastenal.com




Another with TTC (?) brand blades.








TTC Hacksaw Blades


ApplicationsHigh speed steel provide greater wear compared to carbon steel.Carbon steel for an economy blade for cutting mild steel and soft materials.




www.traverscanada.com




They are not a common thing for hobby hacks to buy so local hardware stores and Borg stores are hit and miss.
Starrett make and sell them but not inexpensively.





BS1214-3 Hack Saw Blade


Bi-Metal Unique High Speed Steel Safe-Flex Heavy-Duty Hand Hacksaw Blade 12" 14TPI. For On-Line Orders, PLEASE NOTE: 10-pack. Must order in multiples of 10. Prices are for Each blade.




www.starrett.com





They are out there but need a little searching before you need them. 

Pete


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## mikej460

There are folks on eBay selling anvils made out of railway track and there's this bloke who obviously started off hacksawing then said sod it - it's a letter rack
2.75 Inch, Staggered Cut, anvil rail track, Railway Track, Letter Holder Etc | eBay


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## Yorkieguy

I'd love to own one of these, but I think I'd have to be in prison, with a condition of my early release being that I'd have to make one, before I'd attempt to do it. A lovely end result, but hard won, the the video does rather give the impression that it was done in a jiffy:


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## RobinBHM

I know I'd get hacked off err, well you know um, hacksawing it


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## Trainee neophyte

AES said:


> On what material/s and size/s do you use Lidl recip saw?


Thus far it has mostly been m8 or m10 threaded bar. The idea of cutting through train track never occurred to me, although I have many miles of abandoned track next door to me, so perhaps...

If I was serous about cutting track, I would try to make thermite. I've always wanted to have a go with thermite. Looks like fun.


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## TFrench

Yorkieguy said:


> I'd love to own one of these, but I think I'd have to be in prison, with a condition of my early release being that I'd have to make one, before I'd attempt to do it. A lovely end result, but hard won, the the video does rather give the impression that it was done in a jiffy:



When I get my metal shaper running, this will be an ideal project for it!


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## Filament

In terms of using rail as an anvil, when I researched for doing mine, those that know seemed to agree that for anything other than tiny jobs it’s far more effective to use the rail stood vertically, rather than horizontally as it gives you a lot more meat under the blows of the hammer.


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## pe2dave

Phil Pascoe said:


> I think I'd have found a man with acetylene.


So messy though? The 'cut' end is ... shoddy, cut with gas.


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## Owd Jockey

Well done Dave, always good to see someone taking a different approach


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## novocaine

1084 medium carbon steel. Hot rolled and work hardened if its been used. Doing this with a hacksaw is unimaginable to me. I might used a reciprocating saw, or a grinder. By preference abrasive cutting here.


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## pe2dave

It's an exercise in sawing... and patience @novocaine


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## novocaine

Shame you are to far south else id have run it under the big abrasive chop saw for you. Im sgill keeping 1 eye open for a chunk, but it's getting harder and harder to get your fingers on without paying through the nose (nearly cheaper to buy a real anvil )


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## ian_in_the_midlands

I made this mechanical hacksaw last year for cutting larger lumps: 
Even so, I think I would pull out the angle grinder for something like a railway line.


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## AlanY

pe2dave said:


> 14tpi was preferred, for bigger jobs (see link in Original post). Likely a typo. I have 18tpi on order.
> See this piece (provided by another reader for rly line steel.
> 
> Now through the top 'bulk' of the rail.


I was interested to learn more about railroad tracks so went to the linked site. Somewhere in there the author says:

"Obviously, this is pretty hard stuff. You’re not going to get too far with a hack saw.

If you do, send me a video. I’m always up for a good laugh."

Looks like you are proving him wrong, Dave!


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## Limey Lurker

Two things that I was taught:

1 Never, ever, start a NEW blade in an OLD cut!

2 The blade cuts on the push; not on the pull! (I suspect that the teacher told the kids that so it would slow them down, and give him a breathing-space! OR; it made the blades last longer)


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## pe2dave

Another 40mm before I hit the ground plate. Run out of hacksaw depth! Need to figure out a way of aligning
two saw cuts now. Laser to the fore I think.


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## Phil Pascoe

pe2dave said:


> So messy though? The 'cut' end is ... shoddy, cut with gas.


So run a flap disc over it.


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## pe2dave

@Phil Pascoe - Far too much steel to waste a flap disk (disc).
A grinding disk, yes. Not much more.
Just need it fairly smooth


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## Terrytpot

This popped up in my inbox recently and would sorely tempt me if I had an urge to try similar..


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## pe2dave

"a maximum cutting capacity of 64mm, " Nice idea though.. 
I doubt I could keep it on line for 6".


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## Ttrees

Get one of these and stick a Bahco blade on it


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## pe2dave

Ttrees said:


> Get one of these and stick a Bahco blade on it
> View attachment 112541


Good idea - source please?


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## Ttrees

I thought it would have been in member AES treatise on hacksaws, but
I must have came across it from a tool seller in Co Waterford named John ONeill, I couldn't find it since, but maybe I've not used the correct term.
I'll have another wee look.
edit:
@pe2dave Eclipse no.55 sheet saw is what it looks like.


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## pe2dave

Ttrees said:


> edit:
> @pe2dave Eclipse no.55 sheet saw is what it looks like.



One on ebay - but (big but?) Seems to take 16" blades?


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## profchris

14 tpi blades are available:






30 Pcs Hacksaw Replacement Blades, JatilEr Metal Cutting Hacksaw Blades with 14 Teeth 18 Teeth and 24 Teeth Per Inch : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools


Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop 30 Pcs Hacksaw Replacement Blades, JatilEr Metal Cutting Hacksaw Blades with 14 Teeth 18 Teeth and 24 Teeth Per Inch.



www.amazon.co.uk





Whether they cut more than a couple of strokes, I can't say.

The product description is encouraging though. Not only are these blades light and portable, they are also "extremely multifunctional". Admittedly none of the pictures show railway lines being cut, but Amazon only allows limited space for pictures of the many functions ...


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## pe2dave

profchris said:


> 14 tpi blades are available:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 30 Pcs Hacksaw Replacement Blades, JatilEr Metal Cutting Hacksaw Blades with 14 Teeth 18 Teeth and 24 Teeth Per Inch : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
> 
> 
> Free delivery and returns on all eligible orders. Shop 30 Pcs Hacksaw Replacement Blades, JatilEr Metal Cutting Hacksaw Blades with 14 Teeth 18 Teeth and 24 Teeth Per Inch.
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whether they cut more than a couple of strokes, I can't say.


~From description, "

【Product Specifications】Contains 14tpi, 18tpi and 24tpi junior hacksaw blades,each measures approx. 12 inch in length, 0.025 inch in thickness, 0.6 inch in width, convenience for daily replacement." They are 12" long.


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## AES

Ttrees said:


> I thought it would have been in member AES treatise on hacksaws, but
> I must have came across it from a tool seller in Co Waterford named John ONeill, I couldn't find it since, but maybe I've not used the correct term.
> I'll have another wee look.
> edit:
> @pe2dave Eclipse no.55 sheet saw is what it looks like.




Having written the piece, I can confirm that the saw shown is not included, sorry. Reason? A) I don't think I've ever used one; B) I don't own one; C) though I was (vaguely) aware of their existence, I'd forgotten all about them when writing the piece. Sorry.

P.S. I don't know what size blade they take - I THOUGHT the "standard" 12 inch but I could well be wrong.


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## MorrisWoodman12

pe2dave said:


> It's an exercise in sawing... and patience @novocaine


Well done Dave. I'm not sure I'd have so much patience. 
I believe the 14TPI blades were being phased out because there are so few people sawing through railway lines these days.


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## julianf

I have a tool that I rarely use, and it takes up quite a bit of space, but is just so good for what it does, that I keep hold of it.






You just set it going and go do something else. It's also quiet enough to use well past bed time in a built up area.

Cost me a £21 eBay bid, but, again, the real price is the space it takes up.


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## pe2dave

AES said:


> Having written the piece, I can confirm that the saw shown is not included, sorry. Reason? A) I don't think I've ever used one; B) I don't own one; C) though I was (vaguely) aware of their existence, I'd forgotten all about them when writing the piece. Sorry.
> 
> P.S. I don't know what size blade they take - I THOUGHT the "standard" 12 inch but I could well be wrong.


 See this ebay seller ruler alongside implies 16" so it would be good for deeper stuff.


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## pe2dave

julianf said:


> I have a tool that I rarely use, and it takes up quite a bit of space, but is just so good for what it does, that I keep hold of it.
> 
> 
> 
> You just set it going and go do something else. It's also quiet enough to use well past bed time in a built up area.
> 
> Cost me a £21 eBay bid, but, again, the real price is the space it takes up.


 Perfect for the job, though (like you?) I just don't have the room for such a tool.
I recall something not dissimilar in metalwork classes, an 'old' school.


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## Ttrees

pe2dave said:


> One on ebay - but (big but?) Seems to take 16" blades?


There's two of them, it's the no.56 which is the larger one, and the smaller one takes normal blades apparently.

It would be interesting to know how one would tension the blade, and if its a simple affair, then looks like it could be made in a pinch, if you had some suitable plate.
(say if it the frame bottoms out completely)

I doubt you'll mind me mention of them as I don't think you'll have much competition


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## pe2dave

Ttrees said:


> There's two of them, it's the no.56 which is the larger one, and the smaller one takes normal blades apparently.
> 
> It would be interesting to know how one would tension the blade, and if its a simple affair, then looks like it could be made in a pinch, if you had some suitable plate.
> (say if it the frame bottoms out completely)
> 
> I doubt you'll mind me mention of them as I don't think you'll have much competition



Good point about tensioning them! As pointed out, you want a straight line, you need a well tensioned saw!

I do wonder what the two upper ?rivets? are all about... though I can't see how they could be used to tension the blade.


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## Ttrees

Had a look at youtube and just found this, so haven't watched it,
I think I've seen it described as a panel hacksaw when I seen it.
At the start he's using what at first glance appears to be a bow saw frame for gardening, if that would do the job it would be handy.


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## mikej460

Whatever manual route you take you'll end up with forearms like Popeye


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## julianf

pe2dave said:


> Perfect for the job, though (like you?) I just don't have the room for such a tool.
> I recall something not dissimilar in metalwork classes, an 'old' school.



Yeah, I don't really have space for it, and, if it wasn't as perfect for what it's designed for, id have moved it on.

It's not even much good at angles, as the rocking motion tends to upset the clamps, but for straight cuts its way nicer than a horizontal bandsaw.

I mentioned it more out of curiosity than in suggestion that you nipped out and purchased one! : )

Yours is done now, and you live nowhere close anyway, but, if it were not for those two things, I'd have been happy to put it to use on your job, rather than it sit doing nothing for another 6 months!


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## Alpha-Dave

pe2dave said:


> Good point about tensioning them! As pointed out, you want a straight line, you need a well tensioned saw!
> 
> I do wonder what the two upper ?rivets? are all about... though I can't see how they could be used to tension the blade.




Looking at the description, these are for soft material like asbestos panels or plywood, not metals. I suspect that you bend the plate slightly to get the blade on, and that is all the tension you get.


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## TRITON

Note to self:

Never cut a railway rail, find something else.


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## Stevekane

I love the look of the railway line anvil and such a nice thing to have made, but for those that just want a basic “anvil” you could do worse than a lump of RSJ, mine was given to me by an engineer, a 12ins length of flame cut rsj which I think is around 6x8ins. Its cut square at both ends and Ive often thought about tackleing it with the angle grinder to give it a bit of shape,,when Ive nothing else to do I will have a go at it and also neaten it up a bit, however, it lays on the shed floor just inside the door and its surprising how often I pull it out. Its not pretty but I wouldnt want to be without it thats for sure.


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## novocaine

Put blade at bottom of cut. Remove blade from frame. Turn frame upside down. Put blade back in frame with bottom of frame under workpiece. Retension. Continue cut to finish.


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## AES

novocaine said:


> Put blade at bottom of cut. Remove blade from frame. Turn frame upside down. Put blade back in frame with bottom of frame under workpiece. Retension. Continue cut to finish.



Errrrrrr, I'm trying to picture that! My head's hurting. If it would work, it's a great idea novocaine (and NO, I'm not going into the cellar to try it (anyway, I haven't got any spare bits of railway line lying about)


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## novocaine

Think blade upside down in frame. Now think blade right way up but frame upside down. 
Its a really dirty site trick and one I've used a few times to eak that last inch out of a cut ( along with turning the pins sideways in one of my many frames to using it with frame to the side) 
Afraid to say that i dont have a bit of rail to proof my point either. Nor am i about to go to thw workshop to get a picture. I'm just back from a short run and i need a drink.


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## Stevekane

Found this on the internet, seems like an intresting idea, and a neat twist, but it might be worth trying on an rsj too, perhaps a couple of blocks of seasoned oak, top and bottom edges angled to suit an RSJ and bolted through the web with substansial washers spreading the load,,would this make an even firmer anvil substitute? They have started off with rail track but would it work with RSJ?


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## pe2dave

Ttrees said:


> Had a look at youtube and just found this, so haven't watched it,
> I think I've seen it described as a panel hacksaw when I seen it.
> At the start he's using what at first glance appears to be a bow saw frame for gardening, if that would do the job it would be handy.


I note he switches to the Eclipse 55 pretty soon. Agree the bowsaw variant looks a possibility. Thanks for the link.


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## pe2dave

novocaine said:


> Put blade at bottom of cut. Remove blade from frame. Turn frame upside down. Put blade back in frame with bottom of frame under workpiece. Retension. Continue cut to finish.


Solid idea, except for the dimensions of the rly line? And its shape? Tip worth remembering for appropriate jobs, thanks.


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## AlanY

Trainee neophyte said:


> Thus far it has mostly been m8 or m10 threaded bar. The idea of cutting through train track never occurred to me, although I have many miles of abandoned track next door to me, so perhaps...
> 
> If I was serous about cutting track, I would try to make thermite. I've always wanted to have a go with thermite. Looks like fun.


Please do the thermite thing and post the video!


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## xy mosian

By now I suspect Dave might well be into, 'let's just get this job done'. Now I am only a hobby metalworker as and when required. A job like that would give me the heebies. Well done Dave!
The eclipse hacksaw frame uses pins to attach the blade. Hacksaw blades with low tooth count seem to be thin on the ground. Would there be any mileage in using lengths of metal cutting bandsaw blade, with suitable holes? The quality is perhaps likely to be higher and the blade depth could be chosen as needed.
Keep going Popeye!
xy


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## pe2dave

xy mosian said:


> By now I suspect Dave might well be into, 'let's just get this job done'. Now I am only a hobby metalworker as and when required. A job like that would give me the heebies. Well done Dave!
> The eclipse hacksaw frame uses pins to attach the blade. Hacksaw blades with low tooth count seem to be thin on the ground. Would there be any mileage in using lengths of metal cutting bandsaw blade, with suitable holes? The quality is perhaps likely to be higher and the blade depth could be chosen as needed.
> Keep going Popeye!
> xy



Issue (that I can see) - how to drill holes in bandsaw blades? 
Current Eclipse blades are 'welded', brittle teeth and 'soft' body. Guess, bandsaw blades are pretty tough all through? Anyone know?
Perhaps a question for Tuffsaws?


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## pe2dave

18tpi Bahco (Sandflex) blades received - see how much difference that makes.


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## Ttrees

Be interesting to see what you think of them compared.
They seem the best to me from the few I've tried.
Nevertheless are more durable in terms of abuse, and you won't be too miffed even if you couldn't buy just the one.

Have you noticed the hardness being consistent throughout Dave?

Keep her lit!
Tom


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## Stevekane

pe2dave said:


> Issue (that I can see) - how to drill holes in bandsaw blades?
> Current Eclipse blades are 'welded', brittle teeth and 'soft' body. Guess, bandsaw blades are pretty tough all through? Anyone know?
> Perhaps a question for Tuffsaws?


Heat the very end and let cool to remove the temper, Ive done this to broken clock springs, you can hold the blade in some crappy pliers or a bit of wet rag to contain the heat but if the blade is held from under the flame just the end should get red quick enough.


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## Adam W.

Next up.

I found a nice piece of armoured copper cable next to the piece of track I was cutting the other day, how do I cut that without getting electrocuted ?


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## novocaine

Adam W. said:


> Next up.
> 
> I found a nice piece of armoured copper cable next to the piece of track I was cutting the other day, how do I cut that without getting electrocuted ?


Not worth the agro. Especially as its more likely to be fibre theae days, all the copper got nicked yeara ago.


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## Adam W.

novocaine said:


> Not worth the agro. Especially as its more likely to be fibre theae days, all the copper got nicked yeara ago.


Insider knowledge?


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## pe2dave

Ttrees said:


> Be interesting to see what you think of them compared.
> They seem the best to me from the few I've tried.
> Nevertheless are more durable in terms of abuse, and you won't be too miffed even if you couldn't buy just the one.
> 
> Have you noticed the hardness being consistent throughout Dave?
> 
> Keep her lit!
> Tom


Not chalk and cheese, but 'different'.
Couple thou wider (Had to resaw a bit).
Bites more (logical)
visible progress.

Note the wear pattern on the blade? Different design perhaps?

No, not noticably different throughout the cuts. Cost implication of (somehow) joining two parts to make a rail?
Or heat treating 'part' of the rail?


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## paulrbarnard

I really think you are trying to short cut this and missing all the enjoyment of the job. Try a 32tpi to get the best possible finish.


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## gcusick

AES said:


> Having written the piece, I can confirm that the saw shown is not included, sorry. Reason? A) I don't think I've ever used one; B) I don't own one; C) though I was (vaguely) aware of their existence, I'd forgotten all about them when writing the piece. Sorry.
> 
> P.S. I don't know what size blade they take - I THOUGHT the "standard" 12 inch but I could well be wrong.


I actually have one of those, bought donkey’s years ago by my father for cutting Formica. It takes standard 12” blades.


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## gcusick

pe2dave said:


> Good point about tensioning them! As pointed out, you want a straight line, you need a well tensioned saw!
> 
> I do wonder what the two upper ?rivets? are all about... though I can't see how they could be used to tension the blade.


The blade fixing at the handle end pivots about the upper rivet, and is locked in place with a knurled screw. You can’t put much tension on the blade, as the saw plate then bends. Not sure how effective it would be for Dave’s application, but it works well for long cuts in sheet materia.


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## AES

paulrbarnard said:


> I really think you are trying to short cut this and missing all the enjoyment of the job. Try a 32tpi to get the best possible finish.


 Yeah, AND you'd only need to smooth file the cut endS afterwards - you ARE cutting BOTH ends to get an accurate 90 degs at both ends aren't you? The 32 TPI blade/s will leave SUCH a lovely bright & smooo0ooth finish to start you off with the fine finishing.


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## pe2dave

Job done.
Not too untidy.
< 4 hours?
Quite a kerf difference 18tpi to 24.
Much neater than the gas cut (one end)


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## Ttrees

Fair play, be interesting to see it in its glory.

I use a sledgehammer head, but often I end up chasing it around the floor.
One thing I find it really good for is a hardy hole, as I don't have a huge vice, great for bending a thick bit of flat stock.

Tap in another few plates along with the piece to be bent until it pings, and give it a few belts, works really well compared to other methods I've used cold working.

All the best
Tom


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## AES

pe2dave said:


> Job done.
> Not too untidy.
> < 4 hours?
> Quite a kerf difference 18tpi to 24.
> Much neater than the gas cut (one end)
> View attachment 112670
> View attachment 112671



VERY well done that man. Are you going to send pix to that bloke who wrote about railway lines, what steel they're made of, and added that nobody should try to cut a piece with a hacksaw?


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## pe2dave

AES said:


> VERY well done that man. Are you going to send pix to that bloke who wrote about railway lines, what steel they're made of, and added that nobody should try to cut a piece with a hacksaw?


I would, but there was no contact info :-(


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## novocaine

I must admit to be slightly worried that your track has lost it's temper.


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## pe2dave

novocaine said:


> I must admit to be slightly worried that your track has lost it's temper.


 Why's that please? And how would the mfc temper 60' of rail (or whatever length)


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## novocaine

I'm worried because you managed to cut it. it isn't going to really matter though for your use, crack on. 

how do they temper it (ok, heat treat it is the words I was aiming for), a pineapple big forge that's "painted". 



I had to do an assessment at a track manufacturer (I can't mention a name but it's ever so patriotic), and spent most the time amazed at the sheer scale of the operation.


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## pe2dave

About 22lbs each. I think it's clear which is the cleaner cut


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## AES

novocaine said:


> I must admit to be slightly worried that your track has lost it's temper.



I'm interested in your reasoning too BTW novocaine. The Rockwell Hardness number quoted is high ("hard") - was it 60+? - I forget - but a decent hacksaw blade will cut it, albeit slowly. pe2dave certainly couldn't have reduced the temper by cutting it, so how do you think it was "de-tempered"? Do "they" perhaps "de-temper" rails when they're cutting them up for scrap? I dunno, and am interested (in a sort of idle curiosity way)? Come to that, what makes a rail scrap anyway? Cracked?


novocaine said:


> I'm worried because you managed to cut it. it isn't going to really matter though for your use, crack on.
> 
> how do they temper it (ok, heat treat it is the words I was aiming for), a pineapple big forge that's "painted".
> 
> 
> 
> I had to do an assessment at a track manufacturer (I can't mention a name but it's ever so patriotic), and spent most the time amazed at the sheer scale of the operation.




Fantastic piece of film novocaine, thanks.


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## novocaine

oh I wasn't suggesting Dave and his hacksaw had changed the temper of the steel, honest. 

I was just surprised that he got through it as well as he did. 

this was all just idle speculation as the topic is pretty much over. Given that the steel grade is work hardening, I'd sort of assumed if it had been used it would be somewhat harder than 280HB (about 31HRc for rockwell C scale) but I guess not. I wondered, almost as you are if the gas axe could reduce the hardness but that was sort of an idle speculation to be honest. 

what makes a rail scrap? normally a completely worn crown. It gets reground a fair few times but when the head becomes to thin it's aimed at a very large fuckit buckit. they are inspected for cracks but most often these aren't obvious and would normally be hidden around the fishplate as they crack at the fishbolt holes. 
I haven't done a lot of work in rail, but we have a rail division and I am slowly poaching some of their guys to work with me, so I went and asked.


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## AES

novocaine said:


> oh I wasn't suggesting Dave and his hacksaw had changed the temper of the steel, honest.
> 
> _Ohhh good!!!!!!!!! (AES)_
> 
> I was just surprised that he got through it as well as he did.
> 
> this was all just idle speculation as the topic is pretty much over. Given that the steel grade is work hardening, I'd sort of assumed if it had been used it would be somewhat harder than 280HB (about 31HRc for rockwell C scale) but I guess not. I wondered, almost as you are if the gas axe could reduce the hardness but that was sort of an idle speculation to be honest.
> 
> what makes a rail scrap? normally a completely worn crown. It gets reground a fair few times but when the head becomes to thin it's aimed at a very large fuckit buckit. they are inspected for cracks but most often these aren't obvious and would normally be hidden around the fishplate as they crack at the fishbolt holes.
> I haven't done a lot of work in rail, but we have a rail division and I am slowly poaching some of their guys to work with me, so I went and asked.



Yeah, I can well imagine that any cracking would start around the fishplate holes (but aren't rails welded these days, so no fishplates? I dunno). Interesting that they regrind the crowns. That must be an interesting process (and machine come to that). As you say, pure "wonder what/why/how" stuff from me - MILES away from the sort of stuff I used to mess about with.

Strangely enough, MANY years ago I took several holidays in a little cottage in S. Devon and the bloke who owned it worked as "track gang bloke" for BR W Region (so I guess you can tell how long ago it was). We got chatting several times and it seems most of his work was doing some sort of NDT on rails - almost constantly I seem to remember. I THINK he said it was ultrasonic, but it may have been eddy current, it's a long time ago now and I didn't follow him up on it to any great extent.

Thanks for the insights anyway, back to sleep again for me!


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## novocaine

AES said:


> Yeah, I can well imagine that any cracking would start around the fishplate holes (but aren't rails welded these days, so no fishplates? I dunno).



you are completely correct, which shows how out of practice I am with rail stuff.  the assessment at the foundry had little to do with rail as an industry.

TN referred to thermite earlier, this is where it's used on the rails, instead of cutting.
here you go, local (not really) one for you.


and a regrind.


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## AES

Blimey novocaine, you woke me up again. I'm supposed to be studying for a "sort of test" (which you'll hear about on here if I'm successful) but I found those 2 vids really interesting. I wonder what just one of the wheels cost on that "grinding train"? Cheers


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## Ttrees

AES said:


> Interesting that they regrind the crowns. That must be an interesting process (and machine come to that).



On the Manchester to Liverpool line, I've heard that they have a guy
called 'Dave the elbowgreaser' for that.


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## boggy

I would like to find a piece of Brunel's broad gauge rail, known as 'bridge' rail or 'top hat' sometimes found supporting fences or notices. I suppose a battery powered angle grinder and a quiet night would be essential.


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## evildrome

If I had to cut something like that I'd take it to a local engineering workshop & ask them to put it through their bandsaw.

I was in a hydraulic cylinder repair place & they would cut the pistons out of hydraulic cylinders in their band saw.

I can't part off hydraulic piston material in my lathe because its just too tough. Not even with carbide inserts. That's even after I've ground the chrome plating off.

But they can saw it.

Metals Supermarket might do it for you as well if you ask nice.


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## pe2dave

evildrome said:


> If I had to cut something like that I'd take it to a local engineering workshop & ask them to put it through their bandsaw.
> 
> I was in a hydraulic cylinder repair place & they would cut the pistons out of hydraulic cylinders in their band saw.
> 
> I can't part off hydraulic piston material in my lathe because its just too tough. Not even with carbide inserts. That's even after I've ground the chrome plating off.
> 
> But they can saw it.
> 
> Metals Supermarket might do it for you as well if you ask nice.


Lots of 'ifs' there? None of which apply to me.


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## sawtooth-9

Love hacksaws, but Hack is the word !
Cut 1/2 inch steel - no problem.
Cut 1 inch steel, yep - ok
Cut 2 inch steel, yes, but - on a good day !
Cut 3 inch steel - no thanks !!!
Power saws- band, reciprocating etc - just love them.
I sit with a mug of hot coffee and watch them do the hard work


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## morqthana

boggy said:


> I would like to find a piece of Brunel's broad gauge rail, known as 'bridge' rail or 'top hat' sometimes found supporting fences or notices. I suppose a battery powered angle grinder and a quiet night would be essential.


No - a very noisy night so nobody hears you.


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## morqthana

mikej460 said:


> There are folks on eBay selling anvils made out of railway track


Anvils?

Or ASOs?


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## morqthana

Adam W. said:


> Next up.
> 
> I found a nice piece of armoured copper cable next to the piece of track I was cutting the other day, how do I cut that without getting electrocuted ?


Fibreglass handled axe.

You might want to invest in some arc-flash proof clothing and a faceshield too.


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## morqthana

Oh I have to ask..



pe2dave said:


> Last week I picked up a 12" piece of railway line and decided it was over weighty,


Over weighty for what?


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## mikej460

morqthana said:


> Anvils?
> 
> Or ASOs?











20” Custom Rail Anvil With Horn Blacksmithing (reclaimed Railway) | eBay


Our large anvil with horn. 500mm long including the horn. Weight 22kg.



www.ebay.co.uk


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## pe2dave

morqthana said:


> Oh I have to ask..
> 
> 
> Over weighty for what?


For my intended use. E.g. holding whilst gluing


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