# Meddigns pillar drill M4 Mk2



## Smouser (10 Jul 2014)

Hi

I have recently acquired a Meddings M4 mk2 drill but the return spring is broken. I contacted Meddings and they can still supply the spring but it comes to over £40 delivered.
Does anybody know the length of the spring because I have found some cheap springs on amazon ( http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... n%20spring)
which shouldn't be too hard to modify.

Looking at Meddings spare part list on http://www.meddings.co.uk/spare-parts/s ... ick-guide/ I can see there is a few drills that uses the same return spring as the M4 mk2 like the Meddings DT-2, DT-3, L1-3, L1-4, L2-2, L2-2, M2-2, M5-1.

Does anybody know the return spring length for any of that drills or know of a cheaper place to get the springs as £40 is a bit high.
I am also looking for the full manual if anybody have it.

Thanks

Edit: Here is the links for the parts diagram and gearbox, it might help someone out.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iciw64dox0rok ... earbox.pdf
https://www.dropbox.com/s/woztmk2ghlbjh7f/M4%20Mk2.pdf


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## Boatfixer (10 Jul 2014)

I don't know about Meddings in particular but I have had a few return springs fail on drills. In my experience they fail at the end and generally can be repaired by heating the broken end and forming it into the shape of the bit thats snapped off....
Hope this helps
Graham


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## Smouser (10 Jul 2014)

Hi thanks for the advice but it looks like my original spring snapped before and it was "repaired" that way a few times before. It is not the original size anymore.


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## wizard (10 Jul 2014)

As it’s a meddings drill i would spend the £40.00 and do a proper job that will last, any other spring may not last very long.


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## Myfordman (10 Jul 2014)

The springs usually fail at one end or other and it is fairly straightforward to anneal the broken end and then form a new end to fit.
The actual loss of overall length is usually quite small and performance unaffected.


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## Smouser (10 Jul 2014)

Myfordman":uvoswj49 said:


> The springs usually fail at one end or other and it is fairly straightforward to anneal the broken end and then form a new end to fit.
> The actual loss of overall length is usually quite small and performance unaffected.



Yes but it seems that, that has been done over and over again. There is almost no original spring left :shock:


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## Myfordman (10 Jul 2014)

Smouser":19828h24 said:


> Myfordman":19828h24 said:
> 
> 
> > The springs usually fail at one end or other and it is fairly straightforward to anneal the broken end and then form a new end to fit.
> ...



If you can measure the cross section of the remaining spring stock, it should be possible to buy new spring steel strip to make a new spring. 
I know your first question was how long and that will take a few sums and measurement followed by experimentation.

Post the gauge and width as precisely as you can measure and I'll see if I can find some material.


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## Smouser (12 Jul 2014)

Thanx for the offer. The spring is 0.9 - 1mm thick and 12.7mm wide.


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## Myfordman (12 Jul 2014)

All the ready made springs I can find seem only to go up to 0.5mm thickness and by that size they are 20-25mm wide or more. That include the pring stockists such a Springmasters and Lee Spring as well as the horologists suppliers like Walsh and Cousins
You can get raw spring steel in annealed, flat form but then it is s lot of work to form the spring and then to harden and temper it once formed in the home workshop.
If you really can't stomach the cost of the genuine part, then maybe a trip to machine mart or similar to looks at their drills. the end of the spring is normally sticking out of a sheet metal drum. Look at the sizes and see if you can order a spare for one of their drills. Price should be lower but might have to be ordered from China. 

Another possibility might be the spares people at Axminster, might just have something around. pick their heftiest drill from the catalogue and as for a replacement for that - just tell them you bought it secondhand with a missing spring.

When you fit the spring, also fit a rubber ring of some sort around the base of the quill. It is usually people who let quill fly up after letting go that break springs. the rubber ring (O ring) will absorb a lot of the shock and give you long life from the new precious spring.

Sorry I could not be of more help.

MM


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## Smouser (12 Jul 2014)

Hi
No thanks for the effort. I appreciate it and also the advice about the rubber O ring. I am in the process of completely stripping the drill the down. I am about halfway there now.
I am going to look at the gearbox today as there is oil leaking out of the gearbox where the quill goes into it. There must be some sort of a oil seal in there which I want to replace. I am also going to have a look at all the bearings of the drill and possibly replace. 

How do you know when bearing need to be replaced? 
So far all of them seem smooth with no damage so I might just leave them. I am just thinking it will be good practice to replace them while the whole drill is in bits.

After I got all the mechanicals sorted I was going to paint it but I might consider getting it powder coated.

Anyway, back to spring, I was hoping to get something cheap as I feel £40 is steep for what is a little bit of spring steel but I can afford to buy the original if needs be. It looks like that is the route I will have to take in the end.


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## Myfordman (12 Jul 2014)

If the gearbox bearing are quiet and smooth - just leave em. The have a pretty gentle life compared to machines running 24/7 or on a car on bumpy roads.

Quill bearings can have a hard time according to user so if there is any shake there and you can't adjust it out, then maybe change those. Dont buy them from meddings £££££. Instead use ebay bolton bearings, Arceuotrade, Simply Bearings or bearing boys to name but a few. Simply also do oil seals and maybe some of the will do others too.
A coat of paint won't make it work any better!! Not worth it IMHO unless you are selling it.
MM


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## wizard (12 Jul 2014)

I have made springs in the past but first you have to make a spring bending tool then buy the correct steel not cheap then it turns out wrong and you have to make another tool and buy more steel then you think £40.00 was a good price. As for the oil seal make sure you get one that is a good fit on the shaft, i have fitted two and it’s still leaking


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## Smouser (12 Jul 2014)

wizard":3grp4cmh said:


> As for the oil seal make sure you get one that is a good fit on the shaft, i have fitted two and it’s still leaking



Yeah tell me about it. I haver searched high and low on the internet today for the exact match of oil seal but so far no luck. The outside diameter is 39.9mm and the shaft diameter is 24.9mm. So far the best fitting oil seal I could find is OD40mm and 24mm inside diameter. I really do hope that will work. They are fairly cheap, so I am going to get one and see how it goes.


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## Myfordman (13 Jul 2014)

I can't help but question your measurements. Very strange not only to have no integral numbers for the results but both xx.9 ?????
surely that should be 25.0 mm shaft and 40.0 mm seal diameter.

Try measuring some metric bearings to see if there is an offset in your measuring device they should all come out as integral numbers.

Stretching a 24mm seal over a nearly or actual 25mm shaft will have a short life even if the seal does not tear immediately. The difference is an extra 3mm or more in circumference.

I'd bet 1/2pint that the seal should be 40 x 25 mm

MM


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## Smouser (13 Jul 2014)

:lol: 
I will re measure, I can only read what my cheapo vernier caliper reads 

I might even win a half a pint 
or send half a pint to you in the post


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## wizard (29 Jul 2014)

Just got mine apart at the moment oil seal is 40mm x 24mm however it’s not the seal that is leaking it’s the housing, the o ring is missing, its lucky i have a good selection.


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## Smouser (29 Jul 2014)

I went and ordered a 40mm x 25mm seal and a 40mm x 24mm seal. I am fitting the 24mm seal first but it is a little tight around the shaft.
I have been waiting for a bearing to arrive which I need to replace in the gearbox as the old one felt a bit notchy in places, luckily that arrived today so I will fit it later if I get a chance.
I am using liquid gasket for all the gearbox mating surfaces / housings, it should hold up well and hopefully I will have a working leak free drill soon.

O yes the cheap return spring also arrived, I felt £40 was too much for a simple spring, I will fit that and give you feedback if it work or not. If it is unsuccessful I will get the proper spring for Meddings. It would mean I lost about a fiver but hopefully it works.

In it's current state the motor and pulleys still need to be fitted and also the gearbox, the rest is all done.

I should have taken photos of the before and after but as usual I didn't and now I regret it. I do however have a couple I took on my phone.
BEFORE

Photo that was on ebay






Some I took while dismantling 




















AFTER






It is not completely finished yet but I am getting there.


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## Myfordman (29 Jul 2014)

Drat! It seems I owe you 1/2Pint - mineral water OK with you? lol

Your drill is all looking very smart now. Where did you find the cheap spring if you don't mind me asking. I don't need one now but useful info for the future.

TIA

MM


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## Smouser (29 Jul 2014)

I have just fitted the spring, it works a treat! I don't know how long it will last but for a fiver it's not bad going.
I bought it from ebay, a Hong Kong seller. I did have to wait about a week for it to arrive though.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/190768602724? ... 1439.l2649

There is also the ones on Amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... n%20spring which I suspect is the same seller.


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## Myfordman (29 Jul 2014)

It is amazing what these HK sellers deal in. I order some metal clad resistors the other day which were stated to be from HK and in fact they came in about 4 days from a UK address. Also very cheap too.

MM


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## Doolanba (17 Nov 2014)

I'm glad I found this thread, I shall be ordering one of those springs too 

I wonder if one of you other M4 owners could do me a favour and measure the outer diameters of the 5 stepped pulley on the gearbox input shaft? The M4 I've bought has unfortunately had a 3 step pulley fitted that is wrong in just about every dimension possible.


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## Smouser (17 Nov 2014)

Hi

I have checked mine quick hope it is of some help.












by the way the spring I bought is still holding up, although the drill has not seen that much work.


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## Doolanba (17 Nov 2014)

Thanks for those measurements, if you get a chance could I trouble you to also measure the diameter of the other 4 pulleys on that stack? Or if easier the difference in diameter from one pulley to the next by just measuring the size of the lip if you see what I mean?

Thanks again

Good to hear the spring is still holding up


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## Doolanba (9 Dec 2014)

In case anyone else is looking for them the pulley outer diameters are as follows (all measurements in mm). These are the same for both the MK1 and MK2 M4. The diameters were carefully chosen by Meddings to keep the belt length consistent between ratios so you don't have to keep adjusting the belt tension which is a nice attention to detail 

Motor pulley
40.5
57
112.1
139.2
153

Gearbox Pulley
165.5
153.8
103.4
74.1
57.6


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## mindthatwhatouch (15 Nov 2016)

Just about to get stuck into my M4 rebuild.
Can I ask about oil and grease specs/ recommendations.


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## Myfordman (15 Nov 2016)

Talk for meddings for chapter and verse on these machines.


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