# Applying features with router and indexer.



## bobajobob (5 Aug 2016)

I'm in awe of the carving talent I see on-line and would love those skills. I've been wanting to add features /textures to my turned pieces but know it would be tears
if I laid a hand-tool to them. I spent a few days building an index device I could use with a small router. All the parts were home-made so I wasn't expecting great results. With care to eliminate slack it has worked quite well and has been fascinating to develop. I will try to add pic of the results (no luck previously!) to generate some response. Would love to hear from others pursuing this aspect of our art. (Will post more on Photobucket if of interest.)
Primitive compared to ornamental lathe art but fun.


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## timber (5 Aug 2016)

bobajobob":1mxg7q7z said:


> I'm in awe of the carving talent I see on-line and would love those skills. I've been wanting to add features /textures to my turned pieces but know it would be tears
> if I laid a hand-tool to them. I spent a few days building an index device I could use with a small router. All the parts were home-made so I wasn't expecting great results. With care to eliminate slack it has worked quite well and has been fascinating to develop. I will try to add pic of the results (no luck previously!) to generate some response. Would love to hear from others pursuing this aspect of our art. (Will post more on Photobucket if of interest.)
> Primitive compared to ornamental lathe art but fun.



Absolutely Boootifull !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well done. I don't think I could do that on my old Legacy ornamental lathe.
Timber


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## stewart (5 Aug 2016)

Hey bobajob
Your results look excellent - nice crisp lines, great accuracy...brilliant stuff. I've thought about doing something similar but it keeps slipping down the tuit list. I'd love to see more pictures of your set-up (or see it in person...I'm Sussex based too!)
Let's see some more!


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## Woody2Shoes (5 Aug 2016)

Very nice! I'd be very interested to hear/see how you did the spiral ones. Cheers, W2S


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## NazNomad (5 Aug 2016)

Woody2Shoes":3566in9b said:


> Very nice! I'd be very interested to hear/see how you did the spiral ones.



Ditto that, they look amazing.


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## Phil Pascoe (5 Aug 2016)

NazNomad":2xt8d5p7 said:


> Woody2Shoes":2xt8d5p7 said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice! I'd be very interested to hear/see how you did the spiral ones.
> ...



more dittos.


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## bobajobob (5 Aug 2016)

I've posted some larger pics on http://s77.photobucket.com/user/Leew_Fr ... t=9&page=1
Leew Francis is the other me btw.
Got loads of things to try when I've got time. Will post more when I can.
Like to see similar stuff from others. C'mon, this is good for the grey matter. 
Would like to further the refinement of my set-up before showing.
I'm sure you guys will understand. Thanks


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## Phil Pascoe (5 Aug 2016)

Aaahhh ... but if you show it unrefined you may get some good suggestions on how to refine it ...


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## beganasatree (5 Aug 2016)

Hi bobajobob,
You have some stunning pieces,(ART WORK)


Peter.


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## bobajobob (6 Aug 2016)

Thanks Peter
Glad you liked my little collection. 
Coming from an accomplished craftsman. That's really appreciated.

Bob


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## gregmcateer (6 Aug 2016)

They are great - well done, Bob.

If you get the urge, can you post up a WIP so we can all see your jig setup, etc?

Looking forward to the next developments!

Cheers

Greg


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## bobajobob (25 Aug 2016)

Finally got round to doing a bit on the lathe. It was fun experimenting with the router but got sick of the dust and noise.
Results are ok but doesn't satisfy like turning. Was hoping for response from fellow practitioners of router carving. Seems 
thread has no legs. I made a few bits after testing. Pics attached. 
Better pics on http://s77.photobucket.com/user/Leew_Fr ... t=9&page=1 (recent)
Will investigate generating more advanced paths so may post anything interesting that falls off the lathe.

Sorry but I am not posting details of my jig yet. Its not hard to work out the principle.
I made it for pennies and drilled the index plate by eye. It performs better than some commercial jigs and will likely be copied.
I was an industrial designer so I'm a bit sensitive about intellectual property.
Not the ethos of the forum I know but I was hoping for technical dialogue with like minded members.
Normally happy to give help and advice whenever possible. Thanks to all that did respond.

Bob


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## bobajobob (25 Aug 2016)

More pics


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## woodpig (25 Aug 2016)

Nice work. We had a demo at my club showing how to produce a "Lattice" bowl. It made use of the existing indexing facility on some some lathes - the club lathe is an AT1416VS which I think has 24 divisions. The only other parts used were a simple platform mounted on the banjo and a "sled" onto which a dremel type tool was fixed. It was surprisingly effective. As you say it shouldn't be too difficult to knock something up but I must admit I've not done a search to see what others have come up with.

Edit: a quick Google shows the sort of thing demonstrated at my club here:

http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/woo ... the-lathe/

There are some clever ideas on there, I particularly like the flexible curve guide. :wink:

Pictures 8 and 9 on this page:

http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/woo ... the-lathe/


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## donwatson (25 Aug 2016)

Excellent pieces bobajobob, many thanks for showing.

take care
Don W


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## bobajobob (25 Aug 2016)

Thanks Woodpig (nice name!)

Good feedback at last.
I work in "splendid isolation". A club environment sounds like a good place.

The attitude of the router cutter is critical for good results.
Cutting with the axis perpendicular to the work face can leave a very ragged finish.
This is easily addressed by articulating the router but complicates cutting depth control.
Sliding a carriage on a platter requires very careful attention. Concentration tends to wander after multiple passes. 
Wood choice and grain direction is also very critical to finish. 
Most lathes have minimal indexing. My plate is auxiliary with 50 and 60 holes.
I printed an array from the computer and drilled through acrylic sheet.
Any configuration is possible.
Enjoyed reading the articles. Thanks again.

Bob


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## procell (25 Aug 2016)

beautiful work. I am in awe. If ever you decide to go into production of the jig I am sure there will be plenty who would be interested in it.


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## woodpig (25 Aug 2016)

I like home made stuff due to the price :lol: but I came across this site some months back when I was looking at sphere jigs.

http://www.paulhowardwoodturner.co.uk/shop/

As you can see he sells router mounts and indexing plates but they are expensive for just occasional use. Something perhaps a club could purchase though for use by its members?

This bushing idea looks quite clever.

http://www.paulhowardwoodturner.co.uk/s ... 1401557685


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## bobajobob (26 Aug 2016)

Thanks Woodpig (feels disrespectful typing that!)

Some time ago I was exploring inlay cutting for a jewellery box for my wife. I made a mini fixed base router that used a dremel and sleeved bit that could follow a template. It worked OK for veneer depth cutting. This was then adapted to "engrave" turned surfaces. The scope was very limited for any 3 dimensional effects and the cutting action was .... well....ugly. 

Funnily enough I came across the above site when looking for a better solution. With the little experience I had got from my dremel I was not convinced that the concepts for their devices were wholly satisfactory. A smooth consistent cut demands jig rigidity and good tool presentation. Fine detail requires precision and micro adjustment in the jig construction. Interesting paths/profiles are also hard to achieve without compound angular and linear adjustments. These issues I have tried to address. I don't have a fancy workshop or a wealth of construction materials so it has been an interesting challenge. 

My lathe lacks any indexing facility so the first step was to produce an accurate index disc compatible with all my chucks/faceplates (so expensive for something so simple!) with 5 and 6 degree increments. This proved much easier than I imagined. I can explain how if any one is interested.

Thanks again for your interest.

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Aug 2016)

This is useful for people interested in this sort of work -
http://www.cgtk.co.uk/metalwork/reference/divider


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## bobajobob (26 Aug 2016)

Thanks Phil.
That's a very useful aid for those without a drawing or cad program.
Would have saved me some time too.


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## woodpig (26 Aug 2016)

I suppose this is the first stage on the slippery slope of Ornamental turning! :lol: 

http://www.remark.me.uk/pages/hobbies/o ... ental.html

There was a Rose Engine demonstrated at a model engineering show I went to some years back. It looked very complex to me.

This is a modern one. I've seen some home made ones as well.

https://youtu.be/Ie0yMhjpfII


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## bobajobob (26 Aug 2016)

Woodpig 
You've crushed my ego. Humbling or what.
I can't even call my jig a wheel after seeing these inventions.
Absolutely fascinating. 

BTW Phil if you read this. That link you provided led me to some very enjoyable and informative sites. Thanks

Bob


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## woodpig (26 Aug 2016)

I don't know what your setup looks like Bob but the results you've got with it speak for themselves, they're very good. :wink: I have enough trouble at times with basic turning let alone adding routed embellishment! Keep posting you latest works as they come along and make us all jealous. :lol:


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## Inspector (26 Aug 2016)

My Father played a little with an index and router but replaced the router because of the tear out you mentioned. He used a small shaper head mounted to a big hand held inline grinder, the kind welders use to break edges, mounted to the end of a long bar. The bar had a universal joint from a car driveshaft that was fixed to a spot he wanted to get the right pivot point so it would arc across the work. He had templates he would position along the bar to create the curvature of the bowl etc. The blades in the shaper head cutting a large arc left a smooth surface needing very little if any sanding. I don't have any picture of the setup and the bowls are packed away for at least another 6 months or I would add them to the thread.

Pete


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## bobajobob (26 Aug 2016)

Thanks Pete.
Had to read that a few times to form a picture. It sounds like man's work. You could get me and my jig in a cereal box.
Seriously though, it sounds very interesting. I like to see original thinking and your Dad clearly understands the subtlety of the task.
He's invested heart, mind and body in this. Would love to see the results. Come back in 6 months if you can. 

Best wishes across the pond
Bob


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## Inspector (26 Aug 2016)

I plan on making a version myself next year. I was going to use a long nose air die grinder and a canoe bit. Instead of the air fitting in the end of the die grinder, a pipe with the air fitting in it and the pipe screwed in the grinder. A yoke and pivot, kind of like the tone arm on a record player, to let it swing. Another clear as mud explanation eh. 

Pete


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## Phil Pascoe (26 Aug 2016)

I had these marked for something I was going to make - in case they interest anyone -
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10mm-Male-Fem ... SwMr1XPZaa


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## bobajobob (27 Aug 2016)

There's some good old mechanical logic going on here. I was dreading this being dominated by cnc.
Please keep it that way guys. 

Bob


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## finneyb (27 Aug 2016)

Some interesting techniques http://www.woodworkersinstitute.com/woo ... the-lathe/

Tip - to move the photos on use the dots above the photo - a bit slow this morning it took a while to work that out.

Brian


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## Dalboy (27 Aug 2016)

Make your own MDF rose engine

I keep promising myself to make one but like many things I have so much that I would like to do in turning


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## woodpig (27 Aug 2016)

That's a good link Derek. I do wonder why folks build things like that out of MDF though. If I was going to that amount of effort I'd use something more durable like Birch ply.


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## Inspector (27 Aug 2016)

woodpig":2u7mq4hp said:


> That's a good link Derek. I do wonder why folks build things like that out of MDF though. If I was going to that amount of effort I'd use something more durable like Birch ply.



MDF is as common as dirt here whereas Birch plywood is hard to find and at least triple the price. Given a choice I'd rather work with the Birch over the heavy and dusty MDF.

Pete


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## bobajobob (27 Aug 2016)

Hi Dalboy.

Thanks for the Making Rose Engine link.
Exploring these sites has been so useful in deciphering the wizardry of Victorian ornamental turning.
That self build machine looks very tempting but the investment in money and time doesn't quite equate for me.
I am seriously contemplating building some rotary activation into my little jig though and I love the fly cutter arm.

Thanks again. Inspirational

Bob


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## bobajobob (29 Aug 2016)

Just completed this small bowl in cocobola and olive.
It was a pleasure to make but finishing presents problems.

1. I avoided using sanding sealer as it leaves light "plugs" in the relatively open grain dark wood. The texture looks pretty porous 
in grazing light as a result.

2. To preserve hard earned detail I used Danish oil rather than a wax finish. It hasn't cured yet but has left a gummy residue
that is difficult to remove from the multitude of sharp recesses. (see enlarged partial image)

Can anyone please suggest a better way to finish this type of work. We all know how finishing can deny you the satisfaction of an 
otherwise pleasing creation.

Nice bottom
When someone picks up a piece they nearly always turn it over and look at the bottom before even looking at the fancy bit. (hope that
doesn't get censored) Well I've given 'em something to look at. Not an indulgence. I just made a grooving jig and that was my last 
piece of cocobola to try it on.
Works great. Any pitch (Radial or axial), depth or profile you wish to grind. 
Those large pores spoil it a bit though. I know what your thinking.

Bob


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## bobajobob (1 Sep 2016)

Attempt to "sculpt" a vase with the router. Not enjoyable (dust and noise) but interesting.
This is just a feasibility exercise in scrap ash. The spiral path produces nice natural form.
The potential for variation is infinite but I think interest in this thread has expired so will make no further posts.
Thanks to all who participated.

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2016)

No! You mustn't. That's been viewed fifteen times since 10.14pm. I doubt many other threads have been viewed more.
Is the grooving on that graduated as it goes around, or is only part of it grooved? I can't quite work it out.


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## paulrockliffe (2 Sep 2016)

It looks to me like it's done by gradually withdrawing the cutter a bit for each sweep.

Please don't stop posting!


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## bobajobob (2 Sep 2016)

Phil. 
The grooving is not graduated but can be. 
I started with 15 deg. increments (not visible) and reduced to 10 deg. as seen here.
The shoulder is the remainder or the turned blank profile. I liked the look of it so 
did not cut a full rotation.
The set up is laborious and my jig geometry needs rethinking to cope with long cylindrical forms.
Work holding and dust collection are also issues I have got to work on so its back to the drawing board for a while.

I rarely (never) ask for advice but was disappointed that nobody responded to my finishing problem above.
To be honest I'm getting a bit disenchanted with the forum. There are some wonderfully talented people who give a great deal 
but conversely many that think success is achievable by simply leeching knowledge. The reliance on You-Tube as a skill source is almost pathetic.
I'm old school and hands-on. Creativity is born out of non pre-conditioned state of mind. Given this is a forum for the practically minded some of the 
topics are unworthy. Respect and good luck to the many here that deserve it but I think I will return to the serenity of my workshop.

Good luck Phil.

Bob


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## sploo (2 Sep 2016)

bobajobob":1r0asv59 said:


> I rarely (never) ask for advice but was disappointed that nobody responded to my finishing problem above.
> To be honest I'm getting a bit disenchanted with the forum.


Bob. Great work above - but if you're after finishing advice you're more likely to get responses with a separate post in the finishing forum rather than a question in a thread in the turning forum.


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## bobajobob (2 Sep 2016)

Thanks sploo,
Your quite right of course. Bit of a down moment I guess.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2016)

I think I might be tempted to just wax that cocobolo - at least anything unwanted could be buffed away. No matter how thin the finish it could always fill the detail and be difficult to remove.


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## Woodmonkey (2 Sep 2016)

Bob, don't be down heartened by lack of response. Your work is very impressive, please keep posting! If your oil has gone sticky it's because you need to remove (quite vigorously) any excess not long after the initial application. Adding some more oil will act as a thinner so you can remove the excess by rubbing with a rag


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## woodpig (2 Sep 2016)

Only just seen this update. Very nice work again Bob. I wish I could help with the finishing but it's something I have trouble with myself sometimes. I think this is always going to be a challenge until you finally find the solution that works for your type of work. A popular finish at my club is lemon oil but this leaves a Matt finish. I have to say that I don't much like Danish oil for the reason you've given.


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## stewart (2 Sep 2016)

ONce again, really impressive work, Bob - and greatly appreciated here too! I've only used cocobolo for pens and used a CA finish (plus a horrific week long inflammation of eyes!) so can't give any experienced views on finishing it. A beautiful wood but I probably won't ever use it again.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2016)

What about a spray? Several very light passes?


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## bobajobob (2 Sep 2016)

Thanks Guys. 
You inspire me to try harder.

Bob

Is that lacquer Phil? Could you suggest a product. (aerosol type)


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## woodpig (2 Sep 2016)

One finish I did try recently on teak was Renwax straight onto the wood. You could apply it to the fluting with a small stiff brush and then polish off with something like a shoe brush? I chopped down a small brush to apply Renwax to some tools that needed protection and that worked well. It was a cheap nylon artists brush about 6mm dia. You could also perhaps apply this over the top of a light coat of thin oil like Lemon Oil? Just a thought. As said earlier though, best pop over to the finishing section to get some more ideas Bob.


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## Phil Pascoe (2 Sep 2016)

I believe Chestnut melamine has a good reputation, someone else will give you a better answer. (It was an idea - I've not used it) As said, post your question in finishing - we'll still see it but so will the people who are only interested in finishing.


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## woodpig (2 Sep 2016)

The problem wirh lacquer is that it seems to be best applied in thin coats with sanding between each coat. Sanding those flutes in Bobs work between coats may not be easy.

Another option would be to apply an oil finish and use a buffing wheel to bring it to a shine. These folks can provide everything you need at about half the cost of proprietary "systems".

http://www.thepolishingshop.co.uk/acata ... cquer.html


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## bobajobob (3 Sep 2016)

Appreciate your suggestions. 
Its been a few days since my finishing enquiry and I'm pleased to say the Danish oil has dried to quite a nice finish. It has made the wood considerably darker but that's fine.
Woodpig I think your onto a winner with the buffing idea. I've got some old metal buffing mops that I've cleaned up and trials look promising. Got to get some new ones and 
some non-colouring fine cutting compound. That supplier looks good. I think I will make mini mops for my dremel too.

Thanks again guys

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Sep 2016)

You can of course thin Danish very well. I've been using Bestwood, which I've found excellent and fairly cheap. It has a high tung oil content, some don't.
http://tungoil.co.uk/shop/bestwood-danish-oil-5-litres/
I shall go for this one next, as I can pass some on to other people.


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## woodpig (3 Sep 2016)

Thanks for that link Phil. It sounds like pretty good stuff. As I said I've not been a fan of Danish oil as it can go a bit gummy. I may give that Bestwood stuff a try.


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Sep 2016)

You can thin it well. I did some turned bowls that I was careful with as my own bowls have always ended up with a rotten plum or something hidden in the bottom which has left a bad mark, and i found that after several thin coats it was best left a good week or more between coats. If you feel the slightest drag, its still soft. In truth i suspect most finishes are like this.
I picked the Bestwood one up at the club, that's how I came by it. I haven't found any downside to it, and it's cheaper than any of the others I found, especially if you can go splits with others on a larger size. I haven't as yet seen any advantage for interior use using a Finishing Oil as opposed to a Danish Oil, though F.O. in its natural state might be a little thinner. (marketing triumph - selling you more white spirit?  ).


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## woodpig (3 Sep 2016)

What do you thin the Danish oil with Phil?


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## Phil Pascoe (3 Sep 2016)

White spirit.


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## Tetsuaiga (4 Sep 2016)

I've only just seen this topic, some really inspiring stuff.

As for finishing, one of my favourites is shellac, haven't really a lot of experience getting finish into grooves. I imagine spraying works well or maybe a very dilute finish ratio so it flows into the grooves.

Would love to what you're jig is, I have an idea what it could be. Hopefully i may get round to making something for myself sometime.


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## bobajobob (5 Sep 2016)

Made some improvements to the jig and had a stab at a vase.
Learned a few woodwork lessens on this one.
There is a high risk of a c..k-up when doing repeat operations so I used a bit of ash firewood.
Its probably not dry because it was very fluffy after routing. It was also very difficult to sand and I made matters worse by using a water based finish which raised the grain with each coat. There was an inevitable loss of definition on the groove edges.
It looked great off the lathe, even when it was fluffy but I got more indifferent as things progressed. I bet you can all relate to that! Brush painting coarse textured wood is not recommended. I must get some spray finishes. The surface tear was too evident to consider a regular wood finish. It would probably be better to use spiral fluted HSS cutters. The quest continues.

Bob


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## bobajobob (5 Sep 2016)

Pics for above


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## woodpig (5 Sep 2016)

Nice work again Bob. If you have suitable collets for your router you could use milling cutters.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue ... s-Uncoated

Ball nosed might be useful as well.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue ... AlN-Coated


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## bobajobob (6 Sep 2016)

Thanks WP

That site's a proper sweet shop.

Bob


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## Inspector (6 Sep 2016)

Great looking vase. One of the reasons ornamental turners use African Blackwood almost exclusively is that it cuts clean and needs no finish beyond a little paste wax. The cutting frames used take off shavings as thin as baby hair and leave behind a polished surface. A porous wood like oak, elm, mahogany and walnut will virtually always need some sanding which removes the crispness of the tops of the flutes etc. Wood like hard maple and perhaps beech leave a better surface providing the cutters are very sharp. Getting a surface finish to work will require some experimentation. Wood stabilized with something like Cactus Juice should harden it enough that you might be able to leave it unfinished like Blackwood.

Pete


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## bobajobob (6 Sep 2016)

Thanks Pete.

I'm a bit light on decent timber and this project was a bit chancy anyway. The ash log was the only piece I had of a suitable size. I've not done a lot with the router
but I can totally appreciate what your saying. I love blackwood but I've precious little and only finial size. Incidentally, I recently visited a wood supplier (Timberline)
with the intention of stocking up. What a shocker. Nice exotics were priced out of my reach (I had the wife with me). I'm going to investigate Cactus juice as I have a good supply of softer woods. I thought it needed a vacuum tank though.
Thanks for the advice.

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Sep 2016)

Here's a bit of blackwood that's just waxed -

just to show anyone who's not used it how well it finishes.


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## bobajobob (6 Sep 2016)

Phil, you had me going there.
I thought they were massive beside a cartridge of silicone sealant!
AAA battery makes them look even more impressive.
That metal intrigues me. Tell us more.
Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (6 Sep 2016)

The slightly larger one is made in four pieces, the bowl, the stem and two pieces in the base laminated. The metal is sterling silver, the ring being planted on a rebate at the top of the stem, the base being laminated with the silver between. It was then carefully scalloped - with a 4.8mm chainsaw chain file. After finishing the base with 1000 wet and dry it was all glued up.
The other was a little more difficult. I made a silver (wire) ring, then made a shallow groove the same size in the end of the cylindrical blank. I then filed the ring into a horizontal D section and epoxied it into the groove. The bowl was turned with the silver already in place to guarantee concentricity. I then made the silver base ring, which filed out to a D section (as a wedding ring). I then turned the bottom of the blank into a very shallow taper, and coated it with epoxy, sliding the ring up it until it sat tightly. When this was dry, I turned in through it for the base. When finished I parted it off, leaving very little waste as the blank was glued to a 2" long 1" diameter waste piece in the chuck.
Sorry, a little off tack for this thread - I just put it in as an example of small bits of blackwood, and to show how it can just be waxed.


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## bobajobob (6 Sep 2016)

Great stuff Phil.
Lovely way to use precious material

Bob


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## Inspector (6 Sep 2016)

Yes Bob for Cactus Juice you do need a vacuum pump and a vacuum chamber along with an oven (200F) of some kind to cure it for an hour or so. A toaster oven is good enough for small items. 

As a possible alternative you could make the flutes a half or quarter millimeter shy of full depth and then flood the entire turning with thin CA glue. When it cures recut the flutes again to final depth. It will harden the surface so it doesn't tear out.


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## bobajobob (7 Sep 2016)

Thanks Pete
Vacuum kit would be very nice given the great applications I've seen for them. I'm only an occasional wood turner so I can't justify the investment. (although this forum is keeping me at it at the moment! See my next post) I have considered CA but found that after cutting it can leave an irregular witness that is visible when finished. Re-flooding presents a sanding nightmare for heavily detailed pieces. 
Hope that doesn't sound ungrateful. I really appreciate your thought and time. It's good advice that others may benefit from.

Bob


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## woodpig (7 Sep 2016)

We had a demo at my club using Pewter inserted into wood turning Bob.

http://www.woodcraftguild.org.au/wp-con ... urning.pdf


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## Phil Pascoe (7 Sep 2016)

I shall have a look at that later. I've been trying bronze powder in epoxy, but I can't quite get the mix right. Might be better with CA? I was thinking to put fine lines in with a router, then fill them with metal powder.


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## Robbo3 (8 Sep 2016)

phil.p":11o8h15b said:


> I shall have a look at that later. I've been trying bronze powder in epoxy, but I can't quite get the mix right. Might be better with CA? I was thinking to put fine lines in with a router, then fill them with metal powder.


Not tried it myself, but everything I've watched on Youtube says that you mix at least as much powder as resin by volume.

Jim Overton - Recess & mixing starts at 9m 20s.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u74BMZ38vOI

You might find his other videos interesting as well.
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6h82L ... 9Fg/videos


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## Phil Pascoe (8 Sep 2016)

Bob - I assume you saw this on another thread - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RVptF- ... e=youtu.be


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## sploo (8 Sep 2016)

phil.p":1s0tqujq said:


> Bob - I assume you saw this on another thread - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RVptF- ... e=youtu.be


Link is broken I'm afraid.


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## bobajobob (9 Sep 2016)

This thread seems to be meandering a bit lately so I think its run its course. I started the thread in the hope it would generate some interest in this fascinating facet of lathe work. It has certainly motivated me to produce a few pieces that would have laid dormant in dusty old blanks (probably forever). I hope it has inspired others to explore its possibilites in their own work. I have really enjoyed introducing this new element into my turning and I know their is enormous potential for further development. However turning is a a small part of my woodworking interest and I need to focus on other tasks. I have produced another piece but it will be the last for a while. 

As we have discussed the wood character has a major impact on the quality of finish when routing detail. Olive is a good candidate and I have used it in this small box. After routing the decoration I was confident that it would accomodate a thread. I made a router threading jig last year that I had only used once. It was a good opportunity to try it again. I made the lid thread insert as a seperate piece. This allowed me to orientate the the grain when screwed home and minimised the waste gap when the blank was parted (no thread allowance needed). The dark wood is African blackwood, which was discussed previously (Pete) and was beautiful to thread. The design may not be that appealing but it was almost self-determining as a result of flaws in the blank.

Highlights of this interesting project were: 
1. The incredible convergence of the lid decoration. It looks like precision machining. I would never have thought it possible
when I designed the jig.
2. The fit of the threads was perfect with no misalignment of the two parts.
3. The consistent registration of the grain when the lid was seated.

I look forward to returning to the lathe and will submit work occasionally but meantime please keep this thread alive.

Bob

(I have posted a few images of my early wood turning exploits on photobucket for anyone interested. http://s77.photobucket.com/user/Leew_Fr ... t=9&page=1 )


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## Phil Pascoe (9 Sep 2016)

phil.p":2q1nstax said:


> Bob - I assume you saw this on another thread - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RVptF- ... e=youtu.be


Sorry, I've lost it. It was just an American in a typical American workshop using typically American machinery to make a very clever but quite ugly bowl.


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## woodpig (11 Sep 2016)

Was it this one?

https://youtu.be/Okwhl-yNKCU


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## duncanh (11 Sep 2016)

This one I guess


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Sep 2016)

Thank you - that's it.


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## bobajobob (11 Sep 2016)

What's all this rubbish about?


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## bobajobob (11 Sep 2016)

That was censored!


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## Phil Pascoe (11 Sep 2016)

What was?


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## bobajobob (15 Sep 2016)

Sorry guys, I'm gonna bore you with another one. 

Blood wood. Very brittle but dense. 

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (15 Sep 2016)

Amazing! Just you carry on boring us ...


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## woodpig (15 Sep 2016)

Very nice Bob, I like that one.


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## Inspector (15 Sep 2016)

I'm not bored yet.

Pete


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## Woodmonkey (15 Sep 2016)

That's beautiful, i would love to see the jig in action


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## bobajobob (24 Sep 2016)

Which finial 1,2 or 3? Long fragile classical finials are beautiful but not suitable for practical pieces.

I'm working on a new jig to cut non-circular (e.g. ellipsoid) forms off the lathe. Will start a new thread when 
results are decent.

Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (24 Sep 2016)

Not 1


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## NazNomad (24 Sep 2016)

Woodmonkey":2l6ak5m8 said:


> That's beautiful, i would love to see the jig in action



I don't think we ever will.


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## sploo (24 Sep 2016)

Close between 2 and 3, but I just prefer 3.


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

Thanks Phil and sploo. I presented it to my wife with 1 and got sent away to do better. Seems she was right.

I hope this invitation to comment was not seen as arrogant. So many members appear reluctant to post opinions and it seemed a simple way 
to get some involvement without fear of contradiction.


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

NazNomad":8newtbkb said:


> Woodmonkey":8newtbkb said:
> 
> 
> > That's beautiful, i would love to see the jig in action
> ...



So many of the discussions on this forum relate to hardware and technique with relatively little on results.
I have deliberately avoided opening a debate on the design of my set-up. The means will overshadow the end. I have only shown results. When I started this thread I assumed that others would share their experiences and achievements. If you have a real interest in in this technique, give it a go. Its not that difficult. I will help anyone that is prepared to invest some effort of their own. You will never discover anything new if you are following a map.

Sorry but that's life.


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## ColeyS1 (25 Sep 2016)

Just read the entire thread. Must say all your pieces look stunning !!!
I have a query regarding your setup- its pretty vague but understand if you'd rather not answer.
Do you do the routing with a traditional type router with a base, or is it more a die grinder type thing so you can get closer to the workpiece ?
I'm pretty cack when it comes to lathe work but with some 40 grit and alot of scraping I can produce basic shapes lol
Keep producing the things of beauty !!!

Coley


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

Hi Coley.
Its a de-mountable AEG router. Like a die-grinder - yes

You use 40 grit eh? Sounds like an interesting texture. Don't be afraid to scrape - you can expend a lot of time and effort doing it "properly". 
Do what gets results. I do but I've turned no more than 50 pieces ever. I bought a whole suite of turning tools. Now all the tools I use are home-made bar the roughing gouge.
The secret - Patience and sharpness.

Good Luck

Bob


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## ColeyS1 (25 Sep 2016)

Thanks Bob. Very inspiring work ! 
Do you make any other bits with wood or is it mainly lathe work ?

Thanks again.

Coley


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## paulrockliffe (25 Sep 2016)

I prefer number 2, but all three have their merits. You could screw it on and swap them over every so often. Chances are your wife will change her mind anyway!

As much as I'd love to see your jig thing, I quite like looking at your pieces and trying to work out the router path and how you've controlled it. 

Cheers


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## woodpig (25 Sep 2016)

bobajobob":4kpcd2rm said:


> Now all the tools I use are home-made bar the roughing gouge.
> Bob



What type of tools are you using Bob?


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

They're not in your league WP but they do the job. Cheap HSS off amazon. Just simple tools
I'll gather them together and post a pic later on. They weren't made to be seen so don't expect much.
They are scaled to my work though which makes all the difference.

Bob


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

paulrockliffe":2e3zxbxc said:


> You could screw it on and swap them over every so often. Chances are your wife will change her mind anyway!



Paul, 
Gone are the days when a little screwing would please the wife! Nice idea though.


Bob


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Sep 2016)

Too much information. 
I showed swmbo and she picked No.1 ... but she has little taste.


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## dennisk (25 Sep 2016)

just happened on this, lovely work. this winter hope to get my die grinder going on something like these great examples. not sure ill be showing them for a while though. im not getting bored, thx for the great pics,once again great work, i prefer 3
also for finishing, i prefer lacquer, light coats and it builds quick and really pops the color,the potpourri in the autumn challenge was just lightly scuffed between coats with 320, and i mean lightly.


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## bobajobob (25 Sep 2016)

FAO Woodpig
Picture of my homemade tools as promised. The hollowing tools are WIP. These tools have just accumulated on an as-needed basis.
I'm not really interested in tools so I have not researched their design. I just make what works for me. I hesitate to post this picture
as I suspect there will be hoots of derision from the aficionados. I hardly ever use gouges any more as I sharpen so frequently and all the fussin with jigs
upsets my work flow. Nearly all my tools can be sharpened quickly and accurately freehand. I rarely turn anything over 200mm dia. but I have full size 
tools if needed. Please pm me if any further info needed. 

FAO The Forum
Please don't raise any tool issue here. It is inappropriate for this thread.

FAO Coley
Yes I love most aspects of wood working but I daren't start any other threads. I'm no cabinet maker but I enjoy making simple furniture, decorative boxes and I've made a few speakers over the years. Renovating the house has been interesting and building a decent workshop. I spent my working life designing and now I can do it for pleasure.
Thanks for your generous comments.

FAO Dennisk
Good luck with your routing project. I hope you enjoy the experience as much as I have. Keep us informed.
Thanks for posting

Bob


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## sploo (26 Sep 2016)

bobajobob":19ag7mt9 said:


> FAO Coley
> Yes I love most aspects of wood working but I daren't start any other threads. I'm no cabinet maker but I enjoy making simple furniture, decorative boxes and I've made a few speakers over the years. Renovating the house has been interesting and building a decent workshop. I spent my working life designing and now I can do it for pleasure.


Please *do* start other threads; it's always interesting to see and learn from other projects. I've posted a variety of things from long reach clamps to shoe racks to jigs to speakers to tool restoration; I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert on any, but on pretty much every one I've had good feedback, and I've learned a few things from others in the discussion.


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## Inspector (26 Sep 2016)

Thanks for the pictures. No derision of any kind from me. Just because I do something one way doesn't make other methods wrong. If I'm not open to other ways of getting something accomplished there is something wrong with me. Blank em if they don't like it. 

Pete


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## woodpig (26 Sep 2016)

Thanks for the picture Bob. The tools look pretty good to me. I've got some HSS so I'll have to make some detailers like yours.


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## bobajobob (27 Sep 2016)

Rework?


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## Inspector (27 Sep 2016)

Inspection department says no rework required. 

Pete


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## sploo (27 Sep 2016)

bobajobob":2bgso9le said:


> Rework?


I love how the shape on the inside flows from the one type of wood to the other.

As a novice/new turner; I assume you glue up the blank, turn the overall shape, and then you're using your jig to cut (in this case) the slots on the outside? Do you then do a light cut to smooth the outside again, or is the detail cutting with your jig the last part of the process?


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## bobajobob (28 Sep 2016)

Pete
Thought I was back at work reading that. Thanks for your approval.

Sploo
I turn both parts separately to near finished form. A shallow tenon centres them. Cut the grooves in the base without the impediment of the rim part.
Glue and finish turn. The tricky part is cutting across the ends of the 72 webs. The fibres are very vulnerable. Very light touch 
needed with a very sharp chisel. I had little time today so rushed it a bit. Would have liked a wider rim but that olive was all I had. Was going to re-hash it later
but its quite an interesting format. The wife likes it so it might survive. Thanks for the reply.


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Sep 2016)

Shape doesn't work for me, I'm afraid - but you can't please all of the people all of the time.


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## bobajobob (28 Sep 2016)

Nor me Phil. 
Rummaging through my router bits I found a thin three wing affair I had to try. Would only cut straight grooves hence this result.
Had a miserable afternoon trying to salvage something worthwhile out of it. You probably know the feeling when your struggling with an ever diminishing
piece of s..t that was once a coveted specimen you were saving for something special. Its now a bit too small for my g.daughter's dolls house.
I'm going to clean up, kick the lathe and watch some telly. 

ATB Bob


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## NickN (28 Sep 2016)

As a wannabe wood turner who has yet to turn his first piece of anything (new workshop not yet got electrickery) I am in awe of the skill shown here to produce these marvellous sculptures, and will most definitely aspire to try router assisted work at some point. 
My lathe has 24 indexing points already but I get the impression that twice that number would be much better. I am no metalworker but I guess an indexing jig could be made from precisely drilled wood if necessary?
Loving this thread, keep it going please.


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## woodpig (28 Sep 2016)

That's a very nice piece Bob. Have you hit on a finish you're happy with yet?


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## bobajobob (29 Sep 2016)

WP 

I've accepted that routed surfaces cannot be polished to the standard of the turned ones. In a way its beneficial to have a textural quality in the grooves.
It could look glitzy with too many highlights otherwise with a glazed look. So I'm sticking with Danish oil and/or wax for now. Thinning the oil with white spirit does help (Phil) 
and seems to quicken the drying. 
Wish you had given your opinion on the last piece a bit earlier. It just didn't seem to work for me and now I've massacred it . Got some beautiful shavings though.
It's a shame because the wood was lovely and I've got very little left. Another lessen learned the hard way.

ATB Bob


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## woodpig (29 Sep 2016)

I've got a spin indexer for my milling machine and after seeing your latest work Bob I'm wondering how I can mount a wood chuck on it!


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Sep 2016)

Bob - a thought - you might find one of the Finishing Oils a bit easier than Danish. F.O. is not recommended for exterior and is I suspect a lighter formulation, the resins being the difference. I've been using Chestnut F.O. and I find it good.


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## woodpig (29 Sep 2016)

I wonder if there's much difference Phil?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finishing_oil

I suspect Tung oil thinned down with white spirit may work just as well but perhaps be a little cheaper to buy. I've got a bottle of Tung oil somewhere, I should give it a try really. :roll: :lol:


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## Phil Pascoe (29 Sep 2016)

Tung takes an age to dry. I tried to find the difference from some manufactures, Terry Smart from Chestnut was helpful bit they don't make Danish. The answer I got from Liberon was that the resins differ - which is why I made the assumption that F.O. is lighter as presumably the weather proof one would be heavier/thicker. There is no standard recipe for D.O. (or F.O.) - http://tungoil.co.uk/shop/bestwood-danish-oil-5-litres/ e.g. is over 50% tung. I use this and Chestnut F.O.


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## bobajobob (29 Sep 2016)

WP. Just googled spin indexer to find out what it was. It has probably got a collet chuck then, though some are shown with 3-jaw chucks. Not much of a challenge for you to make an adapter for your ww chuck. Glue, jam, screw chucks etc would be easy. Nice little device. Very similar in principle to my toy indexer. 

Phil. Thanks for the finishing update. Got an order building for some stuff, will try the Chestnut FO.

BTW. I dug out of the bin the remnant of that last bowl. I felt so ashamed of messing it up that I had a fresh attempt to salvage something.
A couple of pics attached. Lessen - Never give up while there is still wood projecting from the chuck.

Bob


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## bobajobob (29 Sep 2016)

Hi NickN
Sorry for the late reply.
If you are planning on making a router jig I would not recommend using wood for the index plate. 
Stability is essential and wear resistance. It would also be very difficult to drill accurately.
I used acrylic sheet, which is already starting to wear. Rigidity and the elimination of play (not as in fun) are crucial
in the design. Routers are aggressive little beasts so be careful!

Thanks for your compliments but this thread is getting ridiculously long. It's kind of embarrassing. I'm surprised I've not been asked
to .... er off. 

Good luck with new workshop.

Bob


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## ColeyS1 (29 Sep 2016)

Your pieces are amazing !! I've never seen owt quite like it. Keep posting pics please. 

Out of curiosity does it take ages cleaning up all the routey bits, or is it pretty good straight off the router ? I'd be interested to see a before finish/sanding if you get chance.

Nice work [WINKING FACE]

Coley


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## bobajobob (29 Sep 2016)

Coley
See page6 first pic. for as cut finish. If dense wood, little or no finish preparation is needed. Care is needed with cutter speed, attitude and sharpness though. 

Bob


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## bobajobob (5 Nov 2016)

A swan song to end this dying thread.


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## Inspector (5 Nov 2016)

Beautiful beautiful work.


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## bobajobob (5 Nov 2016)

Thanks Pete, value your opinion.
Bob


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## Woodmonkey (5 Nov 2016)

Inspector":p92om0ms said:


> Beautiful beautiful work.



+1!


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## sploo (7 Nov 2016)

bobajobob":18motn7z said:


> A swan song to end this dying thread.


Superb. Your best one yet. The detail and clean edges on the fluting is impressive.


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## bobajobob (7 Nov 2016)

Thanks Sploo and WM, always appreciated. 

Sadly, got to get on with some real work now.

ATB Bob


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## peteb (6 Jul 2017)

Hi

it's taken a while, but I've finally had a go at emulating some of what Bob showed us here.

I'm quite pleased with the results so far:



















The jig really is pretty simple, and was designed based on the hints Bob posted here. Thanks Bob - a really enjoyable reverse engineering exercise!

Cheers, Peter


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## bobajobob (7 Jul 2017)

Oh bug..r what am I gonna do now? Well done Pete. Fine bit of work. You're going to have some fun now. I've moved on a bit lately so I might post a few more challenges for you. So glad to see someone pick up this thread again. Thanks and happy routing Pete.


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## bobajobob (9 Jul 2017)

Four boxes made from a bloodwood spindle blank. Recently completed the set. 2 were posted earlier.


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## TFrench (10 Jul 2017)

Wow. Absolutely stunning work!


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## bobajobob (10 Jul 2017)

Thanks TF


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## Phil Pascoe (10 Jul 2017)

Good to see you posting again, bob. I've not turned since my second leg amputation as I can't get up to the lathe (atm) - I tried turning with the centres at eye level ... not really very easy.


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## bobajobob (10 Jul 2017)

Phil, so sorry to hear that news. Feel for you mate. Hope your prospects improve so you can get some turning back into your life.


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