# FAO Steve Maskery : Patreon



## Mr_P (24 Oct 2015)

Just found this 

https://www.patreon.com/picciuto?ty=h

This chap has 116 patrons and they are pledging $358.01 per month

another woodworker here 

https://www.patreon.com/wwmm?ty=h

Steve Ramsey, 436 patrons $2,166.50 per month

Just a thought.


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## Steve Maskery (25 Oct 2015)

Thanks for that.
I quite like Steve Ramsey in small doses. The other guy I just don't understand. I hope that my work would be of rather higher quality.

But that's the challenge. I do think that most people think that the work I've done in the past has been good quality. OK, some of the film technique is dated, but in terms of the material, it's all good. I only talk about what I know, which is why I've never done anything on carving or turning, for example.

But how do you continue to create top quality stuff, month after month after month? It's easy to produce tat every month, but I don't want to do that, there is enough junk in the world without me adding to it.

Lots of food for thought, and I do intend to produce something, somehow.

Thank you very much.


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## kostello (25 Oct 2015)

Sometimes it is interesting to watch people learning something that they have no idea about...... 



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## Steve Maskery (25 Oct 2015)

kostello":2th9dkd2 said:


> Sometimes it is interesting to watch people learning something that they have no idea about......



Well in some contexts, yes. "Who do you think you are?" is a case in point. 

But do I want to pay for any kind of instructional video only to find that the bloke spouting on obviously knows little more about the subject than I do? Not really, no.


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## deema (25 Oct 2015)

I think that creating interesting viewing is often over complicated. There is only a finite number of times you can have videos showing how to make dovetails, Mortice and tenon joints. These are skills that there is über choice to see on uTube.

A lot of people starting out are frightened about starting a project as they can't see how to use these techniques to actually create a finished object that is of 'professional' quality. 

A good example is how many people have followed step by step the build of your new workshop. If you think of the material that could have been spun off it looking at how the techniques could be modified for a 6' shed and upwards you would have enough material for few years of stuff.

Making Windows and doors comes up fairly regularly. There is no one that I've found on uTube who explains how to make all the variety of Windows and doors that are around. 

Circular work is also not covered anywhere that I've found. From making bulls eye Windows to curved sliding saches with an arched top. 

I would like to suggest that although there is content out there, it often doesn't cover the 'when it's all gone wrong how to get you out of trouble'. I'm a firm believer that the true seasoned professional is not one that never makes a mistake, it's the person who makes them and knows how to over come it and no one can tell or knows.

To make money at this kind of thing (IMO) you need to approach it like any other business, identify your customers, and ensure everything you do is targeted at their needs. You can't possible cover every segment of the market you need to pick one or possible two and focus on that.

I think there are at least four distinct groups of people that are interested in stuff
1. DIYer
Very basic DIYer with an interest. A few hand tools bought from one of the sheds, electric drill, and possibly a router and jig saw. Does projects every now and again probably driven by what's needed to be done in the house. Seeks help only for the projects that their working on. No general interest in learning about the craft. Mainly driven by avoiding the cost of trades people.

1. Enthusiast
The enthusiast, good set of tools including power tools. Own some form of table saw / band saw, router table. Retires at most opportunities to the shed / workshop, actively seeks out forums and general wood working information.

2. Hand Tool Specialist.
Then there are the hand tool enthusiasts / developers of tradition skills. Probably have or aspire to own premier hand tools / real high quality vintage stuff. Will have a tool cabinet that covers the majority of tools required for any project and will buy a set of rounds and hollows if they can find / afford them. Know how to make joints and are on a path of becoming increasing competent at using them. Extremely knowledgable, it's their main interest, and seek to become experts in every area. Looking for content on complex problems.

3. Professional Workshop
Wood work enthusiast / professional with workshop. Will have a good selection of hand tools but also a selection of professional wood working machines. Will have a table saw, P/T, Router table or spindle Moulder, Band Saw, Pillar drill. A greed selection of power tools which probably extends to Dimino or similar.

4. Professional without workshop. 
As above but will have transportable table saw etc, Festool or high end interactions power tools. On site hand tools, stuff they don't worry too much about if they get lost, I.e. Disposable hand saws, Aldi chisels etc.

I think that by carefully working through a segmentation of the market you will create a really good understanding of each category of woodworker there is and what will appeal to the.

The next step is then to equip yourself with the tools that the sectors you want to cover will use. Don't use, or show, or have anywhere I. Your videos anything that would not found in the Tom chest of the sector you've selected. Make sure that everything you demonstrate / produce has actually been made on the tools the sector has. I.e. Don't use a P/T secretly if your creating Hand Tool content. There is for instance no point in doing content and videos on a Soindle moulder if your target audience is the hand tools specialist. Equally pick a tool that inky a very few in your sector will have, unless a sponsor is paying you to plug it!

To generate income, you need to know who your audience is, by tailoring your presentation videos to attract the segment you want you will not only build a larger audience quickly but it will have a specific characteristic. 

The characteristic of the audience is of great interest to both companies looking to advertise their stuff but also wanting to place their branded stuff in your videos. Approach a manufacturer with a plan of content your looking to produce, highlight and show what the content is you've created and the size of the audience you have at the moment. You need to make it easy for the people who control advertising and marketing. Start small, and ask for a selection of power tools in return for featuring their use in your content. It's very cheap for them to do this and your likely to succeed. Then go npback and show how you've grown your audience with a new project, suggest advertising / sponsorship deal. Make any deal specific to the project and be ire pared to either only get a small contribution or nothing. Build your audience and keep knocking on doors. A few thousand followers is worth a lot of they have a specific characteristic that you can define. Another approach is to approach a shed for instance and suggest that you will do a series of videos that is season specific (build a barbecue for instance) where the plans, materials and costing uses their stuff and every tool you will use comes from them. Suggest they link it to one of their promotions that you can also make a feature of. 

I think looking for people to pay to view is a bizarre business model. It's like asking someone to buy something that's hidden in a bin liner. Until you have seen it you don't know whether it's worth the money, when you have seen it you don't need to spend the money. Would you pay for something that you don't know you want? I know I wouldn't!

The model should be about attracting advertising and sponsorship. That's the money spinner, and I've seen scant evidence that anyone has actually worked out how to both segment, target and then generate an income from looking at it as a proper business would do. 

You don't sell barbecues in winter or snow shovels in summer. This seems obvious, but consider Paul Sellers as an example. He does some really good stuff, however, whose his target audience? What's he actually trying to achieve as a business? I personally don't know. His content fluctuates all over the place and he is IMO trying to appeal to every sector, as a consequence I can see no evidence of product placement or advertising that is highly attracted to his blog / uTube content. The closest I've seen to someone working to a business model are the Wood Whisperer and the unPluggedworkshop chap. The WW is sponsored by Powermattic and others, he's looking at the Enthusiast I believe however some of his stuff is also biased towards the Professional Workshop. He Presents and promotes the brands that sponsors him exclusively in everything he does. The UnPlugged has targeted the Hand Tool Specialist and he promotes Veritas tools when ever a sharp implement touches wood.

When searching uTube / the Internet people are looking either for techniques or how to do stuff. Content should be driven by this rather than thinking of it as some form of classical educational cariculum


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## RobinBHM (25 Oct 2015)

I think there is a market for short videos placed on you tube to entice people then pay to view full videos available on website. 

Perhaps the website could also be an affiliate site, although Im generally not a fan of these as most are blatantly designed for clicking through and have no original content.


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Oct 2015)

deema - TL;DR


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## kostello (25 Oct 2015)

deema":2wljfwdc said:


> I think that creating interesting viewing is often over complicated. There is only a finite number of times you can have videos showing how to make dovetails, Mortice and tenon joints. These are skills that there is über choice to see on uTube.
> 
> A lot of people starting out are frightened about starting a project as they can't see how to use these techniques to actually create a finished object that is of 'professional' quality.
> 
> ...


Interesting what you said about the workshop build....n

IIRC Steve didn't know what he was doing when he started..... 

;-) 

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## Steve Maskery (25 Oct 2015)

kostello":3tvoyt80 said:


> Interesting what you said about the workshop build....n
> 
> IIRC Steve didn't know what he was doing when he started.....
> 
> ;-)



You can say that again!


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## Wildman (25 Oct 2015)

Steve didn't know what he was doing when he started..... hee hee


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## Steve Maskery (25 Oct 2015)

Thhhhhhrrrrupppppppp!


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## deema (25 Oct 2015)

I got to ask, although I may regret it....what does TL,DR stand for?

I think the way in which Steve presents his work is both engaging, refreshing and extremely interesting. He has a humility and honesty that truly shines through that makes everyone who has follow his shed thread wait with anticipation for the next instalment. Would it have made it more interesting if he'd been an expert to begin with, I don't think so, because there was interaction and discussion on how to resolve each problem that arose. The amount of expertise that can be gleaned from the thread is fantastic, and by engagement everyone felt that they had a little ownership of the shed. That's priceless for building a strong following. 

What I'm suggesting is this form of presentation rather than the normal 'do this and then do that tutorial' which always creates derision and negative feedback as everyone is an 'expert' and there is no better sport for some than bashing others opinions.

Anyway, apologise if my suggestions are off track, or cause offence.


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## Claymore (25 Oct 2015)

There are some fine woodworking videos on Youtube but we really need more British ones that do stuff the "British" way.....you can't beat Steve's videos and they are the sort of thing you keep going back to unlike the watch it once and then move onto another woodworker.
I certainly would pay (and have) for British made videos......its much easier trying to find certain tools/brands of products when they are available in your own country.
Cheers
Brian


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Oct 2015)

TL;DR

Sorry, - too long, didn't read.


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## HOJ (25 Oct 2015)

Might be worth a look at how Chris Pye operates.

http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/home


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## deema (25 Oct 2015)

phil.p":13b1yq4m said:


> TL;DR
> 
> Sorry, - too long, didn't read.



Fair comment, I'll take it on board.


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## JakeS (25 Oct 2015)

deema":3623p7i6 said:


> phil.p":3623p7i6 said:
> 
> 
> > TL;DR
> ...



Unfortunately I don't know of a snappy Internet abbreviation for "I thought your lengthy post was interesting and informative, and I wouldn't worry too much about cutting it down to suit people with no free time and/or attention span", but... well. I guess it's probably the wrong audience for a snappy Internet abbreviation! ;-)

Still, ITYLPWIAIAIWWTMACIDTSPWNFTAOAS.


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Oct 2015)

You have too much time on your hands ...


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## Mr_P (25 Oct 2015)

HOJ":1g16rgo6 said:


> Might be worth a look at how Chris Pye operates.
> 
> http://www.chrispye-woodcarving.com/home



Doesn't look that much different to Steve's current site and no new newsletter since March 2013 or am I missing something ?


I'd say Richard Maguire is the man to look at 



> I caught up with Richard and Helen at the European Woodworking Show recently and this latest venture has proved more successful than they could have hoped for



http://www.davidbarronfurniture.blogspo ... oject.html

Film one project, charge people a one off fee for lifetime use.

Once you've sorted your paywall / hosting fees just sit back and count the money.

When sales start to slide, time to film project number 2.


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## monkeybiter (26 Oct 2015)

Steve Maskery":23qza22f said:


> It's easy to produce tat every month, but I don't want to do that, there is enough junk in the world without me adding to it.



I waited a bit for somebody else to comment, I don't think they have so I will; from a business point of view if you want to make some money back make what sells, if you want to make what makes you feel good, then you pay, or you could mix business with pleasure and film popular clips/tips AND the sort of stuff that you would buy. Different people have different values, don't be a victim of snobbery and undervalue more basic work; some like it and are prepared to pay for it, their willingness to pay is just as valid as your willingness to provide that service.


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## MusicMan (26 Oct 2015)

Deem - AL;RIA

(appropriate length; read it all). I thought you analysed the business situation very well. That's excellent advice for anyone wanting to make money from youtube etc. Identify your customers and your business model.

One further thing that I would add is making it easy for your customers to buy. DVDs are so 20th century; I don't even have a player on my computer, so it is a hassle to view them. I have a player in my living room but that's not where I go when dressed for the workshop. But I have a modern Mac and awesome broadband, and do most of my financial stuff online. So it is easier for me to buy stuff that I order online, download and can view immediately; then print out key pages or take the computer to the shop for a specific build.

I do want to get Steve's complete DVD set sometime and I am sure the price is good value. But it's still significant ££ to lay out. I know they are available as sub-units, but funnily enough, the big discount for the set is putting me off buying these until I can launch out on the whole set. If the units had been available online, with only a small or zero discount for the set, I'd probably have them all by now. 

Keith


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## petermillard (26 Oct 2015)

monkeybiter":xs3z3134 said:


> Steve Maskery":xs3z3134 said:
> 
> 
> > It's easy to produce tat every month, but I don't want to do that, there is enough junk in the world without me adding to it.
> ...


Have to agree. I was a little surprised to see another woodworker (the first patreon link in the first post) dissed like this, especially when they're doing exactly what Steve Maskery seems to aspire to i.e. making a living from online content they've created. You may not like what he makes (and come to that I'm sure a lot of people here wouldn't like much of what I make) but perhaps he's just making what sells, or drives views on his youtube channel?? Incidentally, his name is David Piccuito and he's a fairly prolific YouTuber - I've never watched him regularly, but with 100k subscribers, ~160 videos and 5 million cumulative views he's clearly hitting the right notes with a few people. He's also just produced his first book "The New Bandsaw Box Book" - maybe Steve could buy a copy 

I only know of him because he also does a weekly 'woodworking and making stuff' podcast with Jimmy DiResta and Bob Claggett (another YouTuber) and they talk a little about making a living and YouTube on this weeks show -makingitpodcast.com, episode 42 - starts around the 38 minute mark, and only lasts for a couple of minutes, but the bottom line is that nobody makes a living just from YouTube unless they have millions of subscribers - Jimmy DiResta says that he makes '...at most a couple of thousand dollars a month, which is nice to have but not enough to live on'; this is from someone with a sizeable following, a few TV series' behind him, 300k subscribers to his YouTube channel and 30 million views.

As they say, they have ads on their website, they sell project plans, t-shirts, use patreon, and do client work and sponsorships, and accept donations; they cultivate their followers via all the social media types (Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, Pinterest) - all of which feeds the bottom line of being able to make a living from what they do, which is clearly not 'just' making videos for YouTube.

HTH, Pete


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## Steve Maskery (26 Oct 2015)

Fair enough, perhaps I should watch more of his work. I just watched the first few minutes of him drinking a bottle of beer and saying not very much and that was enough for me. Just not my style, I suppose.
I have to say that I think the social media side of it seems very daunting. Why does life have to be so complicated?


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## Mr_P (26 Oct 2015)

Apologies that might be my fault, originally I linked to his weekly round-up. Very much on the filler side of things.

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it, would I write that on his you tube feed ? 

No but plenty would and have written far worse I'd wager.

Thick skin def required if you want to play on the big wide web.


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## mind_the_goat (26 Oct 2015)

Mr Picciuto also does a weekly podcast with 2 other makers, Jimmy Diresta and Bob Clagett (many of you will probably know of Jimmy) In some of these episodes they discuss issues around youtube, making videos, attracting funding and use of social media and patreon, among other things, well worth checking these out if you considering taking the youtube route, and well worth checking them out if even if you are not. 
http://makingitpodcast.com/


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## Steve Maskery (26 Oct 2015)

MusicMan":188pk52m said:


> I do want to get Steve's complete DVD set sometime and I am sure the price is good value. But it's still significant ££ to lay out. I know they are available as sub-units, but funnily enough, the big discount for the set is putting me off buying these until I can launch out on the whole set. If the units had been available online, with only a small or zero discount for the set, I'd probably have them all by now.



I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at that! But thank you, and all the rest of you, for your very constructive suggestions.

BTW, I've just listened to the MakingIt podcast about selling out (in a good way) to fund your work. Slow start but once they got going they did talk a lot of sense. I'll probably listen to some more on the subject.


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## sploo (3 Nov 2015)

Steve Maskery":3s5nzm4q said:


> MusicMan":3s5nzm4q said:
> 
> 
> > I do want to get Steve's complete DVD set sometime and I am sure the price is good value. But it's still significant ££ to lay out. I know they are available as sub-units, but funnily enough, the big discount for the set is putting me off buying these until I can launch out on the whole set. If the units had been available online, with only a small or zero discount for the set, I'd probably have them all by now.
> ...


Slightly off topic, but...

Steve - with regard to MusicMan's comment: how about a discount system whereby buying a first set of DVD's is full price, then later buying another set (with proof of purchase of the previous set) gets you a small discount. Buy a third with proof of the first two gets a further discount and so on.

Worked out appropriately, you might be able to get a pricing structure that means it's still a good discount, but not quite as good as buying the lot in one go (to account for the extra logistics at your end for handling multiple orders vs one), but it still gives someone an incentive to buy incrementally and not wait until they can buy the whole set at once.


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## MusicMan (4 Nov 2015)

That would work, spioo. 

Steve, I think that short courses could be quite rewarding, and you have a wonderful workshop to do them in now. Making Jigs with Steve? 

Keith


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## Zeddedhed (5 Nov 2015)

Not sure if anyones already suggested this but making the current vids available as (chargeable) downloads would be a start.

It would require some work to re-rip them or whatever it's called into MP4 format or whatever, but nonetheless would only use overnight processor time once the format is decided upon.
Handbrake is a free open source Mac program that does all the conversion - there's an awful lot of options but again, once the correct options have been figured out the original files can be queued up and left to process. Not sure what the optimal file size is for a download but a bit of research should deal with this..

If you want Steve I'll have a go with one of your DVD's and give you the settings.


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## Harbo (5 Nov 2015)

Handbrake works on a PC too

Rod


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## Steve Maskery (5 Nov 2015)

I could probably re-issue them as MP4s directly from the original edits, that way there would be less loss of video quality, I should think. The trouble is that I have had 4 changes of address since making them and I'm not entirely sure where all the files are. I have a box of various external hard drives but I have no idea what is on which.I have a lot on at the mo. But thank you all for the ideas, it's all helpful.

Can those of you who have done this give me an idea of the MP4 file size when a 4.7G DVD is converted?


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## Zeddedhed (5 Nov 2015)

I did WSE 3 (Ultimate Table Saw Tenon Thingy) last night just to see and the MP4 is 1.63GB for the runtime of 1hr 17 mins 38 secs.

HTH


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## Steve Maskery (5 Nov 2015)

Thank you. What's the video quality like compared with the original DVD?
S


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## Zeddedhed (5 Nov 2015)

About the same.
I'll upload it to my dropbox and give you a link if you like.
PM if interested.


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## sploo (5 Nov 2015)

Steve Maskery":2nr7ezhb said:


> Thank you. What's the video quality like compared with the original DVD?
> S


It'll depend on the bit rate used, but the more modern encoding algorithms are more efficient than MPEG2 (used for DVDs) so it's likely you won't see a difference.

There may be an argument that it would be better to go back to your original source (assuming you've got them in a video editing program) and render them out using an MPEG4 codec, as opposed to transcoding the MPEG2 material. It might not make a big difference though.


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## Zeddedhed (5 Nov 2015)

sploo":qhkv7y2n said:


> Steve Maskery":qhkv7y2n said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you. What's the video quality like compared with the original DVD?
> ...



Sploo knows stuff about all this. I'm just playin' around. He's the man for the techy stuff for sure.


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## sploo (5 Nov 2015)

Zeddedhed":2rkux10l said:


> sploo":2rkux10l said:
> 
> 
> > Steve Maskery":2rkux10l said:
> ...


It's been a while, so I'm a bit rusty in this area (I don't know the exact state of play with what's "in" these days).

1hr 17 mins 38 secs is... 4658 seconds.

1.63GB is ~1669MB is 13352.96Mbits.

13352.96 / 4658 = 2.86Mbit/s (2935Kbit/s).

A quick bit of Googling indicates that standard def video in MPEG4 or H.264 can be done in the 1400-1700Kbit/s region, so you may be able to squeeze it down a bit and still get good quality - especially as I'm assuming Steve's videos don't have the fast movement of a Michael Bay film :wink:


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