# Tis the season to....build a workshop!



## Anonymous (10 Sep 2007)

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## OllyK (10 Sep 2007)

That is a lot of pillars. Depending on what you're using for the joists, you could just put a pillars at the ends and then span between.

Floor joists in a house are generally 15" on centre, but again depending on materials and the weight of machinery and the spans I'd be tempted to beef that up a bit.

Yes, you want some kind of DPC between the concrete and the wood. Personally I'd look at something like polystyrene insulation between the joists and under the floorboards, leave a 1 inch gap between the poly and the floorboarding. 

Vapour barrier needs to be on the warm side of the insulation. Tyvec is breath able and so won't be any good as a vapour barrier, although you could use it on the outside under the shiplap / t&g to add to the waterproofing, but that seems rather expensive overkill to me, I'd just use plastic sheeting on the inside.


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## Johnboy (10 Sep 2007)

Joists are normally 16" centres not 15" as this fits in better with standard 8' x 4' plywood sheets. My workshop is similar in size to yours at 20' x 12' and I used 8" x 2" pressure treated for the floor joists. 3 running lengthwise with joists at 16" centres across the width hung on joist hangers.. Mine is on engineering bricks on a concrete pad, I just used 4 equi spaced under the long side so 12 in total, hasn't collapsed yet (7 years) the joists are just laid an a damp proof layer. I nailed battens to the joists to support 6mm WPB ply and put 100mm rockwool on that then moisture resistant chipboard flooring, I didn't put in a membrane but probably should have. I used 4" x 2" for the walls again at 16" centres, 12mm ply on the outside then pressure treated feather edge. Insulated with 100mm rockwool and 6mm MDF on the inside, no DPM again (i didn't know any better then). Rafters (pitched roof) are 6" x 2" again at 16" centres. 3/4" shuttering ply with felt on top. Insulation and then more 6mm MDF on the inside. I decided on no windows for security and fitted 6 double fluorescent lights.

HTH 

John


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## Maia28 (10 Sep 2007)

Hi Dave,

I was pondering whether to start my own workshop thread as I am now up to floor level. I have found shultzy and mailee's threads invaluable so far. Mine is 6.3 by 3.3, the foundation is hardcore/sand and paving slabs with a section of retaining wall as I had to overcome a ~12" change in level. The floor joists are on 61cm centres to match the ply sheets I will line it with. The old shed was supported on single bricks resting on soil at 1.22M spacing with 3" planks laid flat. It had started to sag a little but had stood for at least 10 years. Having developed a taste for this woodworking lark, it could no longer support the machines and my old car parts. I'm going to use the old DG units left over from our extension for windows and have been thinking of onduline/coroline roofing with some small GRP sections for north-facing roof light.

If you like, I will start a thread and post some pictures (or I might just do that anyway!). I look forward to seeing how you get on.

Andy


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## mailee (10 Sep 2007)

Hey brilliant Dave and Andy! About time we had another workshop build on here, I love them. Glad I have been of some service to you too. Looking forward to the progress.


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## Waka (10 Sep 2007)

Dave

We'll want a comprehensive WIP on a regular basis.

You never mentioned what you bought at westonbert? Come clean now.


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## Anonymous (11 Sep 2007)

Cheers for the advice so far. I'm leaning towards not doing pillars. I like the idea of the hardcore + sand base + paving slabs base. My only problem is that there are several trees next to the site so there will be lots of roots.

Has anybody found the builders merchants do timber any cheaper than B&Q? Gloucester B&Q has a large timber section. I'll check out prices/sizes later this week and post them for comparison.

Sorry for no pics yet. Work won't really get started for a couple of weeks.

Dave


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## Paul.J (11 Sep 2007)

Dave.
Have you thought about a concrete base and a prefabricated garage/workshop.
Just thinking if you did get the VB36 you will need a good solid floor.
Paul.J.


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## Maia28 (11 Sep 2007)

Dave,
Have a look at dobuilddirect.com. They supply through Build Centre but offer a lower price on delivered timber/materials. I have used them a couple of times and they are helpful and prompt. 
Andy


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## AndyT (11 Sep 2007)

davejester":2zhgk5h9 said:


> Has anybody found the builders merchants do timber any cheaper than B&Q? Gloucester B&Q has a large timber section. I'll check out prices/sizes later this week and post them for comparison.



Try driving south from Gloucester on the Bristol Road (A38). I don't have any personal experience of them, but there are three or four huge great timber merchants in a row there. Every time I come back from Gloucester, I find myself thinking that it must be a really good place to buy a lot of wood!

Andy


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## ike (11 Sep 2007)

> Try driving south from Gloucester on the Bristol Road (A38). I don't have any personal experience of them, but there are three or four huge great timber merchants in a row there



Joseph Griggs - major part of their business is truss frame manufacture.

Nicks Timber next door - an excellent timber yard - large stocks of all grades and sizes. Both retailers as well as wholesalers to many off the smaller builders merchants around. The timber comes off the boat at Sharpness and used to be barged up the ship canal straight to their wharf. 



> Has anybody found the builders merchants do timber any cheaper than B&Q?



PS, Dave, I've seen better pallet wood than what goes for 'wood' in B&Q. Don't go there - use Nicks Timber.

Ike


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## Lord Nibbo (11 Sep 2007)

ike":2xjus2vw said:


> > Try driving south from Gloucester on the Bristol Road (A38). I don't have any personal experience of them, but there are three or four huge great timber merchants in a row there
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes all the wood used to be delivered to them on concrete barges from Sharpness, thats why they are on that side of the A38, every property backs up to the canal, every plank unloaded one at a time by men carrying the plank on their shoulder whilst walking along another plank off the barge. It was quite an art getting the bounce right.


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## iwood (13 Sep 2007)

I'm up to floor level on my new workshop and also used hardcore/sand/paving slabs. Worksop is 20x12 and the floor framing sits on 3 long rows of British Standard Paving. That's the stuff they use on pavements. Its 2" thick, 2' wide, quite cheap and widely available. 

Mind you laying 60 feet of it perfectly flat took a lot longer than I thought it would..


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## Anonymous (24 Sep 2007)

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## carlsberg (26 Sep 2007)

davejester":22je77au said:


> Now for the questions. I'd like to use rockwool under the floor. How would this be supported? I don't want polystyrene due to the flammability.



Dave, when I built my workshop, I considered using rockwool under the floor, but changed my mind incase it got wet. I suspect it would be like a big sponge and never dry out and losing its insulating properties.
This turned out to be a wise move as the floor of the workshop got saturated with rain many times before the structure became waterproof.

Cutting the polystyrene to fit the spaces is not something I want to do again anytime soon, very fiddly with a handsaw and seemed to take an age.

If you do go down the rockwool path, then I think you could use chicken wire stapled to the underside of the floor structure, but that would also be a PITA to do.

IMHO whether you use polystyrene or rockwool, a timber framed workshop is going to burn to the ground in a big way if the worst happens, especially with internal wooden cladding like mine 8) 

Keep posting the pics, it might spur me on to get on with fitting the shingles on the roof of mine to finish it off, although im rather busy as of late. Hopefully I can get it done before the real cold weather comes along.

carlsberg


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## DaveL (26 Sep 2007)

There are a number of ways to hold the insulation between the floor joist. If you use a rigid sheet material, polystyrene or kingspan then nail battens to the sides at the bottom and drop the cut sheet in. For rock wool chick wire as already mentioned, but if you can't staple to the bottom use 'U' shaped bits nailed to the sides of the joists or get some of the thin plastic net and run it across the tops of the joists. staple it one end drop a loop into the gap and staple on the next joist. the floor board should sit flat on top of the net with no problem.


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## Anonymous (27 Sep 2007)

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## andys wood shed (27 Sep 2007)

Dave,

I have a box (500 I think) of these if they are any use to you
and the good news is they are FREE :lol: 


Regards

Andy


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## Shultzy (27 Sep 2007)

Andy, I wouldn't mind those hangers if Dave doesn't want them. They would be useful hold the insulation when I do the ceiling.


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## Anonymous (28 Sep 2007)

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## andys wood shed (28 Sep 2007)

davejester":3cc9oa13 said:


> Andy,
> 
> cheers for the offer. I'm not sure I need 500 of them though. Maybe Shultzy could take half.
> 
> ...



I work in Gloucester so I'm down here every day (just off Eastern Avenue)
Let me know how many you would like and I can sort them out over the weekend :wink:

Andy


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## andys wood shed (28 Sep 2007)

Shultzy":1q7g4mf2 said:


> Andy, I wouldn't mind those hangers if Dave doesn't want them. They would be useful hold the insulation when I do the ceiling.



Your welcome to whatever Dave doesn't need :wink: 

Andy


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## Anonymous (28 Sep 2007)

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## Shultzy (28 Sep 2007)

Thanks Andy, how far apart do they need to be so I can work out how many I might require.


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## Anonymous (1 Oct 2007)

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## Anonymous (8 Oct 2007)

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## ianmelb (8 Oct 2007)

davejester":2rln0ys5 said:


> I'm trying to design the whole workshop so I can order the correct amount of timber. I'm still not sure about spacing for wall joists. Is this still 16" as with the floor or could it be a little more...say 24"?
> 
> Also what height can the walls be if I'm going for a pitched roof?



I've used 600mm centres for my 100x50mm wall frames. 

Permitted development says that the maximum height for a pitched roof is 4m (measured from highest part of the ground surrounding the building). 

When working out my wall heights, I decided that around 1900-2000 mm would be enough for me to put a door in without having too low a frame (and having to duck); I then stuck a 1000mm apex on top of that - total height height approx 3m.


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## Paul.J (8 Oct 2007)

Looking nice and tidy so far Dave  
Will be watching this one.
How big is the new shop going to be :?: 
Paul.J.


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## Anonymous (24 Oct 2007)

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## ianmelb (24 Oct 2007)

davejester":3o0givf7 said:


> That as well as moving 4 tonnes of ballast to the bottom of the garden.



It took me about 7-8 hours to shovel and barrow 8 tonnes of Type1 hardcore round to my site. Ballast is a bit easier to dig - Type1 has loads of angular bits that don't allow the shovel to penetrate very easily ...


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## Petiegolfer (1 Nov 2007)

When I landscaped the garden of our old house my brother mixed cement on the drive and I barrowed it down to the footings of the retaining walls. It seemed to be more senible than moving it and then mixing it. We went at it like mad barstewards...its surpriseing how quick you can get it done

When the fullas did the foundations for the conservatory...they did the same thing...mixed the stuff on the drive and then barrowed it round.

I think my best effort ever was moving a pallet of concrete blocks round the back of the house...35meters...in just over half an hour on my own. I treated it as a work out and jogged em down and ran back for the next!

Just food for thought?

Piers


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## Anonymous (26 Nov 2007)

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## Maia28 (27 Nov 2007)

Hi Dave, looking good and it should shoot up from here if you can survive the cold. I recon the dobuild price shows what the mark up is if you don't buy in bulk, they are half the price that build centre quote for the same materials. 
Andy


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## exigetastic (2 Dec 2007)

Maia28":1a3i1cq7 said:


> Hi Dave, looking good and it should shoot up from here if you can survive the cold. I recon the dobuild price shows what the mark up is if you don't buy in bulk, they are half the price that build centre quote for the same materials.
> Andy



I bought some stuff from do build via ebay, so despite the markup on paypal and ebay comission it was still miles cheaper :shock: :? 

Looking good on the build btw... I reckon I'm 4 weeks ahead of you. I'm just at the finishing touches stage now. (Mine is quite a bit smaller though)

Took 1 weekend to build the frame. A few evenings to build roof trusses.
1 weekend to clad , and put trusses / roof sheets on.

1 weekend to paint and felt. 

First crack at doors was on Friday (had the day off work) This weekend I'm insulating / lining! Though family keep descending on me, really want to get the door hung. :roll: 

Will get some pics taken later.


Si


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## Paul.J (2 Dec 2007)

Still looking good Dave.
Just think this time next year you will be all up and running with that big green monster of a lathe :wink: 
Paul.J.


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## Anonymous (3 Dec 2007)

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## Fecn (3 Dec 2007)

davejester":3rs74gyh said:


> It's still very exciting seeing it come together.



Certainly is... keep those piccies coming.


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## Shultzy (3 Dec 2007)

Dave, I stood the frames on end which saved a lot of bending (See my workshop post). You have to look after your back, remember you only have one  .


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## Anonymous (26 Jan 2008)

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## DaveL (26 Jan 2008)

Dave,

That's looking good. 

Do you have all of the cladding read to fit or is it still to be delivered?

What style of roof are you going to fit?


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## superunknown (27 Jan 2008)

Thats going to be a fine workshop  Very interesting for me as I am building a workshop at the moment too, your a little bit in front of me, I only have the base done so, walls are my next job.

Just out of interest why have you put DPC between the timber base and walls?


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## Anonymous (27 Jan 2008)

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## Gordon T (27 Jan 2008)

Well done, it looks good so far, I find it very interesting watching these projects develop. Keep up the good work
GT


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## ratkinsonuk (28 Jan 2008)

Dave, if you haven't already had a look at my 22x12 workshop, might be worth it :-

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... hp?t=15651


I've literally just finished putting the final touches to my shop, i.e. painted the inside and started to build the cabinets along the sides. If you'll bear with me, there are a few lessons I learned along the way that might help you.

As you'll see from the photos, the whole thing sits on a breeze block wall, with 4 air vents in. I didn't bother putting insulation underneath the 22mm chipboard flooring. I have holes for electric sockets in the floor, and when lifted, there's a force-9 gale, which I'm actually glad about as it means there's plenty of veltilation to keep everything nice and dry.

Even though there's no insulation under the floor, an oil-filled radiator on it's lowest setting is plenty to keep the shop cosy. That's because I spent a lot of time any money insulating the walls (120mm wool) and roof (70mm compressed wool) as much as I could afford.

I made the mistake of putting a vapour barrier on the outside, trapping the moisture in the wall. To counteract this, I then had to put another vapour barrier on the inside, with the insulation in between. Although this obviously helps with thermal and sound insulation, it's probably a time bomb. If I don't move in the next 5 years, I'll think about taking the shiplap off and removing the external barrier.

The underside of the roof is clad with tongue and groove pine. I didn't treat these in any way, again down to time and cost, so hopefully everything will expand and contract uniformally. Again, there's an air gap between the ply roof and the insulation, allowing plenty of air movement, and all that nasty condensation to be sucked out 

The walls are then clad with 18mm chipboard, mainly because I wanted something I could physically hang units from, and to help with the sound proofing. After some filler and a couple of coats of paint, it's really looking pucker.

You can see from my pics that I managed to pick up 4 double glazed windows from under £100. Those on the 'public' side of my shop now have sticky-back frosting on to keep out prying eyes, while still letting in most of the light.

You say that you want to go for skylights rather than windows - is this for security or wall space. I would highly recommend getting as many windows in as you feel you can - it really does make a difference to how the room 'feels' and will make it a joy to work in. I made the SWMBO as bird table for Christmas, which sits about 6 feet from the window, so I can sit and watch the squirrels on the table whilst waiting for my glue-ups.

Part of my planning permission stated I has to paint the outside in a 'dark' colour, so I went for a dark-brown Ronseal fence treatment. I don't know if it's because the shiplap is smooth or the way I applied it, but it's peeling badly already, even though it's not been on that long.

By the way, because I had so much grief with my planning permission, I had to halt progress for a few months, and left the ply roof uncovered. This was a BIG mistake, as I've now found it undulates badly. It's a shame really, because the dark red felt tiles from Wickes I put on really did make it a nice building to look at.

As soon as I sealed the building and added heating, I moved my cast iron tools in. At the point it was important to sort my insurance, but I was very surprised that my current provider, Barclays, would not cover the contents, even if I offered to pay for it. The building is covered as part of the normal policy, and contents up to about £5K, so I'll have to find another company just for the shop contents.

Like you, I wanted some overhead storage. I purposely built the shop without any trusses so that I had the full height to swing 8 foot boards round. I then added 3 4"x4" beams across the width, that would turn hald of the length into a loft space. I wa amazed at how these beams bowed, so had to attach 10mm steel stiffners (not cheap) to help. Even though there isn't much weight on there yet, there's considerable load on the walls, which have a double header (thank goodness).

I made the mistake of placing one end of the joists above the window and another end above the door. I can't begin to say how this worries me, and expect to come in one day to a bit crack. The morel of the story is, make sure you fully support any joists from floor to ceiling.

At the last count, I has around 24 double sockets around the walls, 11 single flouresent lights, 2 external lanterns, and a few other bits. Needless to say it was quite a big wiring job, although something I enjoyed doing. I completed the wiring, and pre-agreed with an electrician that he would come back and give me a Part-P on the work. If you're going to run a new board to your shop, you'll have endless arguments about how it should be earthed. My advice - just let your electrican decide, as he's the one that will sign it off.

I can't think of anything else obvious you should know. I have found my shop is still too small, and I'll be posting back for help and ideas of how to layout the tools, which now seem to be squeezed in 

I hope this has been of some help. If you need any photos, or advice, please let me know - I'm happy to help.

Rob.


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## ratkinsonuk (28 Jan 2008)

There was one other thing I forgot to say.

When you attach your feather edge, I would suggest putting a breathable barrier on the outside of the frame. Then add battons to this, so you create a cavity. Finally, attach the boards.

You would be amazed at how much moisture builds up underneath the boards, so this handy tip I picked up (after I finished boarding) will keep your boards drier with plenty of air flow for a small cost and a bit of extra time.

Rob.


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## Gordon T (28 Jan 2008)

Rob, thank you for posting the pics and for the comments, very interesting, a lovely roomy and light workshop by the look of it. Makes mine look like a dungeon, sadly.

GT


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## Adam (29 Jan 2008)

ratkinsonuk":1avw27db said:


> There was one other thing I forgot to say.
> 
> When you attach your feather edge, I would suggest putting a breathable barrier on the outside of the frame. Then add battons to this, so you create a cavity. Finally, attach the boards.
> 
> ...



I agree, I have vapour membrane immediately under my shiplap (which is great for stopping airflow, but if I did it again, I'd make a cavity - to allow the air to circulate and B) to allow an extra gap which in the summer will improve insulation from the sun.

Adam


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## Anonymous (29 Jan 2008)

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## Adam (29 Jan 2008)

davejester":1kfi9v2p said:


> Glad you and Adam mentioned the breathable membrane and air gap. I see screwfix do a membrane for roofing. Could this be used for the walls? If not can you suggest somewhere else to get the stuff cheap? Adam, where did you get your tyvek from? How much did it cost? Dave



I got it from Travis Perkins, and its very expensive. Better to either A) buy a part quantity of ebay? Possibly? Not sure if thats possible or not Or B) I do have some left over, so if you are interested, perhaps we could sort out a price and I could send it? PM if interested.

Adam


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## Anonymous (10 Feb 2008)

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## PowerTool (11 Feb 2008)

Trusses look good,Dave - gives a much better idea of the finished size/shape  

Andrew


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## technium (11 Feb 2008)

Can I ask a stupid question?

im planning next summer to build myself a decent sized workshop with the help of my dad, but I have a question regarding the roof.

I can see how you made the triangle shape with the pieces of ply to hold them all together alot firmer, but how do they fix to the walls of the workshop, as they look like they are just hanging over the edge.

Any info would be appreciated.

thanks


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## Anonymous (12 Feb 2008)

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## OPJ (12 Feb 2008)

You assembled and fixed all those trusses up there on your own?! Fair play to you!! I bet it kept you warm though!  

It must be tempting, after that, to just fix the tarpaulin on top and leave it at that - job done... I wouldn't fancy lugging 18mm ply or OSB sheets up there on my lonesome! :roll:

Are you planning on adding some celing joists across the top of the walls as well? You may lose a little head room (don't know how tall you are...) but it'll give you more possibilities for storage space.

You could leave you're timber up there to season and condition. It'd be out of your way up there too. A roof space can get nice and warm in the spring/summer. Perfect conditions.


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## technium (13 Feb 2008)

davejester":2d4vjnmp said:


> Hi Technium,
> 
> I cut a bird's mouth on each end which allows the trusses to sit on the walls. I then put screws through the trusses and into the walls. What you can't see in my photos are the extra 'noggins' between each truss. These help a lot while putting up the roof.
> 
> ...



thanks Dave that helps alot, now I can see how its done.

Ive still got plenty of time to research but it was something I just couldnt work out.

How easy is it to work out where the cuts go, I can see me having a wonky roof lol.


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## Anonymous (13 Feb 2008)

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## 9fingers (13 Feb 2008)

technium":2ydpb767 said:


> davejester":2ydpb767 said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Technium,
> ...



Technium,

I made a full size rod when I made my roof trusses.
Using a few lengths of 4x2 and some of the sheets of OSB destined for the roof cladding, I screwed together a platform bigger than the section of the roof. I marked out the position of the walls, height of the ridge and joined up the dots. It is dead easy to cut out all the rafters, birds mouthes etc and they will all fit..
Once everything was cut , I dismantled the rod and used the 4x2 as noggins to make the rafters rigid and act as nailers for the OSB joints.

hth

Bob


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## technium (14 Feb 2008)

9fingers":pq1lwxta said:


> Technium,
> 
> I made a full size rod when I made my roof trusses.
> Using a few lengths of 4x2 and some of the sheets of OSB destined for the roof cladding, I screwed together a platform bigger than the section of the roof. I marked out the position of the walls, height of the ridge and joined up the dots. It is dead easy to cut out all the rafters, birds mouthes etc and they will all fit..
> ...



Thanks that sort of helps, so basically you drew a template of where the walls were going to be and marked the height of the roof also and then was able to mark where the trusses would be and also where the cuts would be, once checked for accuracy you were able to make all of them exactly the same as the first? Sorry im not very good at this, just starting really so you lost me at rod lol


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## 9fingers (14 Feb 2008)

Yes that is exactly what I meant.

A rod is just a woodworkers (and builders) term for a full size gauge for particular features of something you are making.

Good luck

Bob


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## Anonymous (3 Mar 2008)

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## Paul B (29 Apr 2008)

Hi Everyone
I'm new to the board but have been taking in the valuable info provided by yourselves.

i'm in the process of building the attached studio/shed website greenretreats - waddesdon to house a print machine so it needs to be warm and dry no condensation at all due to material storage - i'm looking to build on bricks on a base from 4x2, insulated with polystyrene all round and floor - Crown wool for the roof, WPB 12mm ply walls and 18mm floors and ceiling OSB3 (Sterling Board roof grade)Green Mineral Torch, breather membrane on outside battoned and clad with 6 x 1" treated ship lap - got a rough quote from dobuild direct and it is 1/5th price this company supplies and builds for which is way out of my price range , so i thought i'd have a go myself
If anyone has anything else i might need to look out for it will be very much appreciated as this is the first one i would have built and really dont want any problems further down the line when everything else is installed.

Thanks a lot in advance

Paul


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## Anonymous (30 May 2008)

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## Waka (30 May 2008)

Dave

Looking really good, I know a couple of workshops as tidy as yours :lol: :lol: Keep us up to date as you progress the inside.


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## Mcluma (31 May 2008)

Dave....

a beautifull workshop

BUT WHY O WHY [email protected] YOU FINISH THE INSIDE BEFORE MOVING IN

you made a good effort, but i would have finished the inside before moving all the stuff in.

Why not finish the inside with ply or osb and the roof (with insulation) then the electrics, even paint it white.

You will have now such a hard job in finishing, IF YOU EVER COME ARROUND TO DO IT, and you will be cursing yourself for not doing it (all your tools will be in the way)

So for others, this is my advise, finish first all, complete it, then move in, even if it is a case of budget constrains, there is a proper finish for every budget


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## Anonymous (31 May 2008)

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## Mcluma (31 May 2008)

davejester":2n6ucxz8 said:


> > BUT WHY O WHY [email protected] YOU FINISH THE INSIDE BEFORE MOVING IN
> 
> 
> As mentioned in my previous post (I think) the old workshop must be moved in order to put an extension on the house. Ideally I would have waited but that just wasn't possible. That combined with two kids (soon to be three) having missed a lot of time with their dad over the past six months made me move in. Electrics are going in at the same time as the house extension being built (already quoted for and agreed).
> ...



Well thats a good reason :lol: :lol:


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