# Kitchen dresser



## MikeG. (2 Sep 2020)

I've had a really bad back for a few weeks, so the various jobs that I've wanted to do have been on hold, and I have tottered out to the workshop now and then to plod on with an easy filler of a job..making a new dresser for the kitchen. This will be a 6 foot long dresser with upper and lower doors, some open shelves, and some drawers. It will be a mixture of oak and painted timber, and all of the structure is pine and ply Here's the drawing on my workshop tool cabinet door:







You can see that the two outer parts of the upper part of the dresser sit directly on the worktop.

I didn't take many photos to start with as it is just cutting to length, putting in a groove, and making some little tongues. Standard paneling. Here's about the earliest:






There's a little rail at the back to set the panels the right distance apart:






I had some 40mm oak planks, which I ripped to width:






They took a bit of flattening as they were quite twisted, and too wide for my thicknesser. Hand planing wasn't great for my back, but they glued up nicely:






This is my door-holding jig pressed into service to hold the piece whilst I planed the end grain:






So far, it's had a couple of coats of oil/ thinner/ varnish mix, wiped off quickly:











Back to the cabinets. After gluing them up, I inserted a ply floor:
















Here are a couple of the joints which will hold the whole thing together:






I cut a moulding on the top of some 95 x 18, and then mitred them to form the skirting:






I cut lots of bits of 18mm stock (all sawing is by hand, BTW, as I can't get to my RAS, and it makes a mess anyway):






Then glued them together to form some shelves:






I had drilled lots of holes in the frames before assembly, so now I cut lots of bits of dowel to 30mm lengths to act as shelf supports:
















Sometime back in the process I had made some drawer boxes. These will have some fronts planted on, and being a kitchen, they'll have runners:






Finally, I cut out some 70 x 20 for the lower doors:






That brings us about up to date. I'll update more regularly now that I've caught up.


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## sammy.se (2 Sep 2020)

Watching with interest Mike, good stuff


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## AJB Temple (2 Sep 2020)

You really annoy me Mike. You keep churning stuff out at lightening speed, even with a bad back. This is just not on. 

I've always liked freestanding kitchen furniture. Very nice job there and tidy work.


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## MikeG. (2 Sep 2020)

I'm after suggestions for a little detail which has me bothered. At the bottom of the upper units, where they sit on the oak worktop, I am not sure whether to have the worktop on show inside the cupboard, or whether to have a bottom shelf at the base of that unit. I'd like to see the oak, but that would leave the sides of the unit unrestrained. What would you guys do?


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## Sawdust=manglitter (2 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I'm after suggestions for a little detail which has me bothered. At the bottom of the upper units, where they sit on the oak worktop, I am not sure whether to have the worktop on show inside the cupboard, or whether to have a bottom shelf at the base of that unit. I'd like to see the oak, but that would leave the sides of the unit unrestrained. What would you guys do?


You could always fix the bottom of the upper units to the oak with sliding dovetails? That would restrain the upper units and allow for the tangential expansion, but i would hope the longitudinal expansion would be minimal? The differential expansion of the two different materials along the sliding dovetail could be taken out by stopping the sliding dovetail short to the front face so that an inch or so of the upper unit is just sat on the surface of the oak, thus hiding any signs of the sliding dovetail? I’m no expert, but that’s what i would consider doing


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## MikeG. (2 Sep 2020)

I like the idea, but.......... I guess the thought of hacking 4 channels out of that nice oak worktop is a step too far for me. Whether I or someone else would ever use this unit without the top parts I don't know, but they certainly wouldn't if I cut sliding dovetails. I'll have a think.


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## Sawdust=manglitter (2 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I like the idea, but.......... I guess the thought of hacking 4 channels out of that nice oak worktop is a step too far for me. Whether I or someone else would ever use this unit without the top parts I don't know, but they certainly wouldn't if I cut sliding dovetails. I'll have a think.


It would be a shame to cut into the oak... but on the other hand a sliding dovetail would also help prevent the risk of the top bowing or warping. Otherwise, if you don’t want to penetrate the top face of the oak then you’d have to hide any fixing method of the top to bottom to the rear/wall face. Or maybe you could get away with only a 3” or 4” sliding dovetail to the rearmost portion of the oak, which will also make the upper units more realistically removable too... and maybe then if you don’t want the top units you could have some sort of 3-4” rear plinth detail to fit into those same sliding dovetails.


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## MikeG. (2 Sep 2020)

I think in the battle between oak and pine, there is only one winner. If the oak wants to bend, no puny bit of pine is going to get in its way!


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## Sawdust=manglitter (2 Sep 2020)

You’ve got a point there.

All you really need is to prevent the upper units from wanting to tip over from being top heavy, so all you really need are small/short steel plates with a screw/fixing to both upper and lower units, probably around these four locations to the rear...






May not be traditional, but atleast then it’s all the more flexible with whether you keep the upper units in place or not.


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## AJB Temple (2 Sep 2020)

I would leave the oak on show, or make a shallow oak drawer to link bottom to top.


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## custard (2 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I am not sure whether to have the worktop on show inside the cupboard, or whether to have a bottom shelf at the base of that unit.



I'm thinking back to antique dressers that I've seen and also more contemporary versions that I've encountered in various workshops. In every case that I can recall there's always been a floor.

Very nice project by the way, kudos for tackling it so efficiently without a table saw.


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## fiveeyes (3 Sep 2020)

make a thin oak floor


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## MikeG. (3 Sep 2020)

Sawdust=manglitter said:


> .....All you really need is to prevent the upper units from wanting to tip over from being top heavy.......



No, that's not quite so. I have to prevent movement in the bottom ends of the side pieces which would effect the gaps around the doors.


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## John15 (3 Sep 2020)

A really interesting project Mike. I can't believe how quickly you get your work done. Puts me to shame with progress on my chest of drawers!!

John


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## Sawdust=manglitter (3 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> No, that's not quite so. I have to prevent movement in the bottom ends of the side pieces which would effect the gaps around the doors.


As long as you have a fairly low shelf which is fixed in place to both side upper units then i wouldnt personally be too worried about the deflection of the side peices. As long as your joinery is robust (which it no doubt would be) then racking shouldnt be too much of an issue either. But i’ve never made a dresser like this before, so cant be 100% certain


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## TheTiddles (3 Sep 2020)

Much easier to clean without the floor on the top units, that’s how I made some built in units recently, but a very different type of design
Aidan


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## AndyT (4 Sep 2020)

Lovely work. I'm putting a few panel pins in a little voodoo doll each day, so it's good to see that it is slowing you down a tad... 

More seriously, we have a quite nice, commercially made dresser which is smaller than yours but structurally similar, though the upper part has a glazed cupboard rather than shelves The ends of the sides of the upper unit sit on top of the worktop without a bottom shelf but with a pair of intermediate blocks with the grain running side to side, a bit like brick footings. There are steel connecting plates at the back. And I am pretty sure there are some dowels in the ends of the shelf sides to provide positive location. I'm away from home at the moment but will post some pictures in a few days if you want. Plenty stable, but not fussy.


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## MikeG. (4 Sep 2020)

Last night I managed to glue up the lower doors, so this is what greeted me this afternoon when I got out to the workshop for a couple of hours:






I had also glued up some inch oak boards to make 3 shelves. This was one solid board, but seriously cupped, so I ripped it at the high/ low point, flattened everything, and glued it all back together again:











So, today I spent a few minutes with a number 6 sorting out the doors for a reasonable fit:











I know some of you like this stuff. This is an end grain shaving from the door, so my plane is working OK:






After cleaning up the oak shelves (can you see the join?). I was fairly pleased with this for a cut-'n-shut job:











....I sneaked the lower one down to the line to fit:






Then quick bit of skirting/ kickboard, to support it:






All of this is just sitting there loose, because if I assemble it in the workshop it will be a massive piece of furniture and I'd have to call up some help to get it in the house. So, the two cupboards will go into the house fully made up, and these shelves and infill bits will follow separately, to be glued in place in situ.

The upper shelf is going here:






We can't have that! It has to be butting up against a frame member, or at least, what looks like one. So I did some re-sawing, some planing, and some shooting:






Again, that's sitting loose, because there's a bit of fancy work to do to it to hold the shelf. That'll be tomorrow. Meanwhile......cutting the shelf to length:






And then planing it. This is why you make the drawers early in the process! 






Propped in place. The middle one is a little high. I'll drop it 20 or 25mm tomorrow:


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## MikeG. (4 Sep 2020)

AndyT said:


> .....I'm putting a few panel pins in a little voodoo doll each day, so it's good to see that it is slowing you down a tad... ....



Could you stick them somewhere other than my back? I'm getting tired of that. I know, gout. How about whacking some pins into my big toe instead. Anything but my damn back.....


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## Coyote (4 Sep 2020)

Very nice work Mike. Especially for a couple of hours. I'd be pleased to do that in a couple of days....


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## MikeG. (6 Sep 2020)

Warning......lots of photos.  Maybe a few piccies will distract us from forum navel-gazing.

My next task was to make the shelf supports for the floating middle oak shelf. I'm not great at working with small bits of wood, and workholding is one of the reason. This time, it was workholding-by-pins:







Then I ploughed as much of a stopped groove as I could before I reverted to chisels. Fortuitously, the imperial width of my plane cutter was just a smidgeon less than the metric width of a winged cutter for my router:
















Apologies for the camera. It has a droopy eyelid. My wife has purloined the better one.

I planed up some narrow stuff for a tight fit in the ploughed groove, glued them up, and moved on to other things:






I quickly edge joined a pair of 145x20s to form the lower shelf of the small middle upper cupboard:






Randomly, I got distracted by the coving for a few minutes. I couldn't quite decide on whether to make it ex 3" or ex 4". In the end, I plumped for the bigger one.......but that's for another day:






MDF......my favourite. It does have its uses, though:





















That will be a backing board for the open shelf sections of the dresser. 

Right......two minute dovetails. No marking whatsoever for the tails, other than the shoulders. A quick saw cut, then a bash with a mallet on a randomly sloped chisel, and I have a pair of tails:






Offer those up to the board edge, mark with a knife, saw, chisel, glue.....






Once that dried it was screwed under the bottom oak shelf because I needed it to sit in place whilst I located the shelf supports for the shelf above it:











I needed to glue up the face side pieces of the upper cupboards overnight, otherwise I'd be struggling for something to do the following day. So late in the evening I cut them out, and made twice as many of the short pieces as I needed. Ooops:






These were going to be joined by a bridle joint. I didn't have time for the whole joint, but needed the female side doing. Now, I reckon the bridle joint is the most demanding joint of the lot. Dovetails have a reputation, but they're a doddle in reality. Bridle joints, though, are a proper test of your skills. The first job, setting out, is relatively straightforward:






As is drilling through the bottom of the joint:






Cutting out the female joint, though, is a good test. I have an 11 TPI rip-filed tenon saw which is just ideal for the job.......and I always slope the workpiece in the vice as shown so that I can see both lines at once. Turn it over in the middle of each cut:











There's no cleaning up with a chisel. If you get the sawing right it is so much easier than faffing around inside a narrow slot where you can't really see what you are doing. A quick chisel out of the bottom of the joint (I don't aim for level here, I dip in the middle deliberately):











Done! Just time to drill out the knots for filling tomorrow:






.....then time for a glue up. That was Saturday done and dusted. I'd hoped to have achieved a bit more, but I had to go to the woodyard for some bits and pieces, and my back forced me to go for a sit-down every hour or so. If Saturday was a day of under achievement, Sunday was even more disappointing.

It started off nicely, though, with the shelf supports working really well once they were de-clamped:






I cleaned up the glue joints to the cheek pieces of the upper cabinets, and set them in place on the worktop:






The main reason for this was to mark up the bottoms for cleaning up, and to do any adjustments necessary to make sure everything lined up properly. There was lots of sighting along the line of the front edges:






Then a straight-edge across the top for a final truing, which I abandoned in favour of doing it when the boxes were complete:






I then turned to the male parts of the bridle joints:






Accuracy is critical. I cut the shoulders first:






Then chisel off the waste. A good reason to choose nice straight grained material:











It fits. Three of the 4 were OK, one..........hmmm...........shall we say "adequate"?






On to the back edge of the top of each box. Again, a really quick un-marked tail, with the line of the shoulders being the only critical issue:





















Veritas probably sell a kerf-extender for £50. I cut the end off an old knife. 

Having made the top back piece, I transferred the shoulder locations to the piece for the bottom:






...then after making random tails again, marked up the cheek pieces and hacked away the stuff I didn't need:






It all hangs together OK, but there is a mystery twist in the left hand unit which I'll have to look at next time I get out to the workshop:


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## Coyote (6 Sep 2020)

Looking good Mike. I can't quite figure out what your first 2 minute dovetails contraption was for though?


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## MikeG. (6 Sep 2020)

The top piece of wood at the back......holding the back edges of the cupboard the right distance apart, and to fix the back board onto.


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## Coyote (6 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> The top piece of wood at the back......holding the back edges of the cupboard the right distance apart, and to fix the back board onto.



Ah, got it. Thanks for the explanation


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## Cabinetman (7 Sep 2020)

Hell Mike you don’t hang about do you! That’s a really nice project with some really nice clean pine, a very satisfying sort of a job. Difficult to tell from the photos but it looks as if, particularly on the oak when you’re glueing planks together you haven’t reversed them so that the cups and bridges (as I call them) are opposite, to mitigate cupping. Whether you did or didn’t that’s a really nice oak top you have there. 
Bottoms in the cupboards? Yes normally, I think of it as being two separate pieces of furniture that just happen to be stood on top of each other. Ian


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## MikeG. (7 Sep 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> ...... That’s a really nice project with some really nice clean pine, a very satisfying sort of a job.



Thanks. Yes I struck lucky with a fresh delivery of stock at the Builder's Merchant, so most of the stuff is pretty straight.



> Difficult to tell from the photos but it looks as if, particularly on the oak when you’re glueing planks together you haven’t reversed them so that the cups and bridges (as I call them) are opposite, to mitigate cupping.



The smaller shelves in oak were a single board "cut & shut", so there wasn't any point reversing the grain. The big worktop I did, but the grain is fairly wild and so whilst it looks right at one end it looks wrong at the other. As for the pine I think I've done it for all the shelves. Not impossible I've missed one, though.



> Bottoms in the cupboards? Yes normally, I think of it as being two separate pieces of furniture that just happen to be stood on top of each other.



I tossed a coin, and it came down in favour of showing the oak. I then asked the other half of the design team, who agreed with the coin. So I've got some awkward little details to sort out.


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## MikeG. (14 Sep 2020)

I had 4 or 5 hours at this during the week, and then a good solid weekend in the workshop, so I've made reasonable progress. We left it at a dry fit of the two upper cupboards.......

Having the upper cupboards in place enabled me to work out the locations and shapes of the shelves and frame members which will join them. I started with the bottom shelf:






I took everything apart and started preparing for the glue up. There are subtle differences between the two cupboards, in that the right hand one will have a shallow shelf unit/ rack thingy mounted on the door, so the shelves in the cupboard can't be full depth. This has structural implications. No such issues with the left hand cupboard, where the solid bottom shelf squares everything up and stiffens it, so I glued that one up easily:











Note the clamping square.

Right, ready for a stupid little cock up? The half-depth bottom shelf of the right hand cupboard still need to stiffen the carcass up, so I came up with the idea of some strong shelf supports firmly jointed and glued to the shelf, extending out to the front of the cupboard:
















Unfortunately, I marked them up the wrong way around:






Doh!!!

I adjusted, but that left a little hole to be dealt with later. Using one of the top frame members to check that the "legs" of the arrangement were parallel, I glued it up:


























I'm making this piece of furniture up as I go, and I hadn't really thought the next junction through. This is the top back corner where the left hand unit meets the infill piece. If I build in "boxes", like pros do, and most here, this detail wouldn't arise. Anyway, it's getting a bit crowded:











But it's strong:






This is all the marking up I did for the dovetails:






The front and back pieces dovetailed into place. The front dovetail is 70mm deep:






Next, I glued up the awkward right hand cupboard with its odd bottom shelf:
















The following day it was time for a dry fit:






This enabled me to measure for the open oak shelf which is below the central upper cupboards, and then to run the grooves in the shelf ends as per the previous lower shelf:






I then did a whole lot of chiseling for the fixed shelves in the right hand cupboard:











Shelf positions were marked on a rod (I guess you'd call it that), and transferred all around the cabinet:






With thin ply panels, and the shelves not reaching the frame at the front, I needed a shelf support to hold them. This, Baldrick, was my cunning plan:





















I think that's both of the main upper cupboards finished for the time being. Time to move on to other things. I made some little shelf supports:






Back to the lower units, and the drawers needed fitting. I made up some pieces which will hold the drawer runners:











Then I hung the doors:






Finally, for the time being, I did a little moulding for the door panels. I had this left over from when I built the kitchen:
















I could then bring the lower half of the dresser inside, in individual pieces:













Back in the workshop, where I was left with a bit more space and only the upper units. Remember the stupid little balls up? Well, time to fix that:
















Time to make the upper doors. Here is my smaller router table, which just clamps in the vice.....set up for grooving out for the ply paneling:
















I cut the tongues/ tenons by hand:





















After they were dry, this is my set up for planing them to fit:






And here they are hung:






Same process for the little upper doors:











Just a little diversion. When I house out for butt hinges, I usually slope back the leaf which is on the fixed surface (ie the frame). This allows plenty of room for protruding screw heads:






And when I fit the door to the frame, I only use a tiny screw initially, in case I have to move things around at all. It's far easier dealing with a tiny hole in the wrong place than with a big one:











I've just got the door moulding to do, and then make and fit the coving, then these units can go into the house for assembly and painting. Don't forget, the two main cupboards are glued, but the smaller middle cupboards are only just dry fitted, meaning I can carry stuff into the house in manageable chunks. Lots of damn mitre-ing in my immediate future, and lots of painting in my wife's!


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## Cabinetman (15 Sep 2020)

Wow Mike, that really is an object lesson in how you work, I really am impressed both with the way that you have laid this out for us and of course your workmanship, those doors fitted beautifully. I know what you mean about making it up as you go along, terrific fun, as my son always says, five steps ahead Dad. I know just how much time it took to write this and load up all the photos. Thank you very much indeed. Ian


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## transatlantic (15 Sep 2020)

Was all that timber prepared using your P/T or are you using it as is?


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## custard (15 Sep 2020)

For a man with a bad back you're setting a blistering pace!



A little anecdote. When I listen to professional cabinet makers talking about other professional cabinet makers, the highest praise is generally reserved for two characteristics. One is the ingenuity of their jigs, the second is how fast they work. There's hardly ever a comment about how neat their dovetails are or how tidy their sunburst veneers are, those things are just taken for granted, but speed is the real prize. Indeed, if ever there's a comment about the complexity or skill of another craftsman's work then someone will always ask, "but how _quick_ are they?".

It's generally understood that speed (while still being accurate) is what ultimately puts food on the table. 

When I trained as a furniture maker we had to make each apprentice piece twice. The first time was to learn the skills required, but the second version was always done against the clock, to demonstrate that you could produce first quality work at a commercial pace. On the evidence of this piece I think you'd make the grade!


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## MikeG. (15 Sep 2020)

transatlantic said:


> Was all that timber prepared using your P/T or are you using it as is?



The oak was planed and thicknessed before being hand finished (plane & scraper). Most of the pine is PAR, but some of the smaller bits have been ripped or re-sawn, and then generally hand planed, but some thicknessed.


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## MikeG. (15 Sep 2020)

custard said:


> For a man with a bad back you're setting a blistering pace!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Much appreciated, custard.

My back is a little better now, so I can't use that as an excuse quite so much any more.

I don't think I'm particularly fast, and I often choose hand tools rather than machining just for the pleasure...so I could be a bit quicker if I wanted. What I don't do, though, is waste time between tasks. I aim for glue-ups at specific times that won't hold me up (often last thing at night so that I can de-clamp in the morning and just get on). I often have 2 or 3 different strands of work running at once so that when one thing is in clamps I've got other stuff I can get on with. Finally, I do believe that workshop space is an important part of efficiency. I have the luxury of being able to have the thing standing dry-fitted, and yet being able to cut up a sheet of ply on horses in the space available in front of it. Not many hobbyists have this luxury, I'm well aware.


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## disco_monkey79 (15 Sep 2020)

Love it!


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## thetyreman (15 Sep 2020)

you're unbelievably fast mike, this is a very impressive build, out of interest how did you fill in the knot holes? is it filled with wood or something else? you certaintly know how to use your time efficiently! I'd like to see a thread about how you made that router table, I am getting sick of cutting grooves by hand and can see how it would save a lot of time, any tips on making something similar? cheers.


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## AJB Temple (15 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> Much appreciated, custard.
> 
> I have the luxury of being able to have the thing standing dry-fitted, and yet being able to cut up a sheet of ply on horse in the space available in front of it. Not many hobbyists have this luxury, I'm well aware.



I agree. The building I took as my workshop when we moved here was formerly a racing pigeon loft. It is long and comparatively narrow. Having now had somewhat larger temporary workshops this past year much nearer the house, the luxury of not having to move things out of the way all the time will be hard to give up. I might build a workshop soon. Or move!


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## MikeG. (15 Sep 2020)

thetyreman said:


> out of interest how did you fill in the knot holes?



I just drill out with a forstner bit to 3 or 4mm deep and fill with the standard 2-part wood filler (you know the stuff, like car body repair filler). It's ready for sanding off in half an hour or so. This is a more successful approach than knotting compound, in my experience, for painted furniture. There are a couple of Dutchmen in there where knots have occurred at an edge.



> I'd like to see a thread about how you made that router table, I am getting sick of cutting grooves by hand and can see how it would save a lot of time.....



Well, I guess I could. The health and safety fiends would be all over it, though, but I've a thick skin. I love cutting grooves by hand, but a dodgy back means you keep the amount of planing down to a minimum if you can.


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## thetyreman (15 Sep 2020)

I have a bad back as well thesedays, it's on and off, can certainly relate to it, so have been thinking of taking a more hybrid approach, it would be appreciated but I know you are a busy man.


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## Trainee neophyte (15 Sep 2020)

That is bicycle inner tube used as a spring, is it not? I only ask because not having a router lift is driving me slightly insane, and I hardly ever use the router. Because I have to use the router freehand, too, I haven't taken the spring out, so adjusting the router height in the table means endless bouncing up and down, too high, too low, again too high. Must copy your ingenious design...


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## MikeG. (15 Sep 2020)

Yep, the inner tubes just keep everything a bit more controllable. Obviously, you could just use springs.


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## Cabinetman (15 Sep 2020)

I hadn’t spotted that, brilliant, I shall nick it as well I hope you don’t mind. Like you I have a big beast of a router under my table ( it’s all it’s fit for) and as the trainee neophyte said, a sod to adjust. Ian


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## davedevelopment (16 Sep 2020)

Great thread, inspiring stuff, thank you for taking the time to post.


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## Dave65 (16 Sep 2020)

Excellent build Mike, like the way that you have included the bits that went wrong too, and the bits that you hadn't planned out before hand, and the way you dealt with them. Great inspiration for us beginners.


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## MikeG. (16 Sep 2020)

I mitred the little panel trim mouldings and glued them into place:







The rest of this post is about something I've not done before. I wanted a cornice for the top of the unit, and not having a spindle moulder my only option (other than phone a friend) was to hand plane the pieces. A friend had given me a hollowing plane (I guess a boat builder might call it a backing out plane, maybe) last year, but I'd never used it:






This is a rough idea of what I was aiming at (the one on the right):






Sharpening it was easy (blade seemed a little soft), but a few experiments on scraps quickly showed me that it isn't easily "steerable". You can hack off quite a lot of wood in the wrong place in something of a hurry. I soon worked out that running it in grooves was the best way. So, this is what I did on the router table:






So that's a couple of chamfers, not quite meeting, along the edges, and a series of straight grooves run along the length of the face.

Workholding, without a tail vice, involved a wedge and a screwed down back stop:






It took quite a while to get to grips with the plane settings. It went from not cutting at all to gouging out chunks with the tiniest of taps, but in the end, I got the hang of it:






I found it useful to smooth off the worst of the edge marks with 40 grit paper on a quick sanding block:






Then back to the plane for a final shaping, check with a little ply template, and sand with 100 grit, before finishing the chamfers on the planer.





















There's a way to while away a couple of hours. What, 10 minutes on a spindle moulder, maybe? And I fully expect to have to do some adjustments when I start mitre-ing (_how *do* you spell that?_) these bits together sometime in the next few days. That was sweaty work today, but despite a couple of bashed knuckles I am fairly pleased to have acquired a new technique.


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## AndyT (16 Sep 2020)

Nice work! Sometimes an extra tool really does open up new possibilities...


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## MikeG. (16 Sep 2020)

I reckon a longer wider plane with a handle and maybe a fence would make this job pretty easy. I found myself using my fingers along the edge of the board as a fence (hence the bashed knuckles). More like a jack plane with a curved bottom.


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## AndyT (16 Sep 2020)

The plane you are describing exists. One version is a gutter plane - I expect you know about old houses with wooden guttering.






The other type was used by pattern makers who developed a design with detachable soles of various set radiuses, with an iron for each.


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## AJB Temple (16 Sep 2020)

That is nice work Mike. I must admit, I have a go at most things, but I would not have attempted to make that coving as I do not have a plane (or the skill) to do it. Top job. Adrian


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## Racers (16 Sep 2020)

I thought you had enough tools Mike 

Pete


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

AndyT said:


> The plane you are describing exists. One version is a gutter plane



That would be perfect. I know that boat builders had a similar plane, for "backing out" planks where they were laid on curving parts of the framework.



> The other type was used by pattern makers who developed a design with detachable soles of various set radiuses, with an iron for each.



I imagine there is a sliding dovetail the length of the plane and soles.


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## AndyT (17 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I imagine there is a sliding dovetail the length of the plane and soles.



Simpler than that. Normally just two countersunk screws on each base, fitting either into a pair of holes in the wooden main body (as in the old "secret screw" method) or, more likely, into a pair of recessed metal keyhole plates.


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## clogs (17 Sep 2020)

very very nice....
have tried but would like to make plans like that on a computer....


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## Jonathan S (17 Sep 2020)

Nice job Mike......Would not recommend doing this, but.....I remember years ago making a small piece of cornice by setting up a circular saw upside down and running the timber over the blade at 80°, taking off a few mm at a time and finishing with sandpaper, it worked and got me out of a situation.
Today I would use the spindle moulder with a 100mm head, but still after making mountains of the stuff that spinning 100mm head makes me more nervous than it did on the circular saw set up.


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## Cabinetman (17 Sep 2020)

Very nice Mike, and beautiful timber to work with, and of course the other problem with the spindle moulder is getting the cutters or having them made. The last pair of large ones I had made to a profile I required were very expensive. I once did what Jonathan S did over my tablesaw not something I want to try again!


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> ........beautiful timber to work with......



I went back and bought some more more especially for the coving, because I knew if I had a knot or difficult grain I'd have some real issues to deal with. I found a lovely piece.


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

Jonathan S said:


> .....I remember years ago making a small piece of cornice by setting up a circular saw upside down and running the timber over the blade at 80°.........



I've heard of this technique, and wasn't even slightly tempted to try it!


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## PAC1 (17 Sep 2020)

The table saw method is a good technique because by varying the angle of approach you can change the width and depth ratio of the cove. How I do it is to clamp two pieces of 4x2 at the required angle (this is the technical bit) to your table saw you need a line from the centre of your saw at the angle and then clamp the 4x2 equal distance either side of the centre line the total width between the 4x2 is the width of your stock. Then slowly wind up the blade a couple of mm at a time and run the stock over the blade and keep going until the desired depth of cove is achieved.
The closer the angle to the line of the saw the deeper and narrower the cove and the greater the angle the shallower and wider the cove.
If you are good at geometry you can take the diameter of the saw and the height and Chord exposed and the work out precisely the angle you need to approach the saw for any given cove.


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## pcb1962 (17 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I've heard of this technique, and wasn't even slightly tempted to try it!


There's a video here


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## PAC1 (17 Sep 2020)

This one is a bit safer


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## Daniel2 (17 Sep 2020)

I did use the saw method for raising the door panels of my kitchen.
It worked very well. Patience and due safety diligence were neccesary,
but I felt quite safe doing it.
I had it set up that, whatever happened, niether my hands, or the rest of me,
could touch the blade.


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## Yojevol (17 Sep 2020)

I suppose the saw method will, in fact, give you an elliptical curve. Not that it would be noticeable in this instance.


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

It's worth bearing in mind that I don't have a table saw.


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## AndyT (17 Sep 2020)

It's possibly also worth repeating that Mike enjoys the _processes_ of working wood, not just getting the quickest result. The method he chose is very satisfying to do, quiet, safe and dust free. Also, an old round plane only costs £5 to£10, or on his case, nothing.


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## Jonathan S (17 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> It's worth bearing in mind that I don't have a table saw.


Mike I was the same for years.... it's amazing what you can do with a skill saw and a router.


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## PAC1 (17 Sep 2020)

AndyT said:


> It's possibly also worth repeating that Mike enjoys the _processes_ of working wood, not just getting the quickest result. The method he chose is very satisfying to do, quiet, safe and dust free. Also, an old round plane only costs £5 to£10, or on his case, nothing.


Sorry, I thought the idea of posting to such a thread was to encourage and educate others. Offering alternative methods is part of that. Someone else reading the thread may find the range of methods of making coving useful.


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## Droogs (17 Sep 2020)

Jonathan S said:


> Mike I was the same for years.... it's amazing what you can do with a skill saw and a router.


Oh how I would love to have been a fly on the wall of Mikes house when he reads that


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

Jonathan S said:


> Mike I was the same for years.... it's amazing what you can do with a skill saw and a router.



   ........they're....erm.......not over-used in my workshop.


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## MikeG. (17 Sep 2020)

PAC1 said:


> Sorry, I thought the idea of posting to such a thread was to encourage and educate others. Offering alternative methods is part of that. Someone else reading the thread may find the range of methods of making coving useful.



You're absolutely dead right, and I'm quite happy that we discuss all "matters arising" from these sorts of threads. Don't misunderstand Andy, though, who was just reiterating what I've said about my motivations for working the way I do.


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## AndyT (17 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> You're absolutely dead right, and I'm quite happy that we discuss all "matters arising" from these sorts of threads. Don't misunderstand Andy, though, who was just reiterating what I've said about my motivations for working the way I do.



Indeed. I didn't say anything about not discussing other methods or argue against them, I just added some reasons for choosing the method Mike chose.


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## Steliz (17 Sep 2020)

Thanks Mike, another great build thread.


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## Hornbeam (17 Sep 2020)

I used the saw method to create 100ft of moulded laminates when I made a curved drinks cabinet with curved fluted sides. I dont like leaving a blade unguarded so I put a wooden guard over the blade so the wood being moulded was in a tunnel
For handplanes, I think David Charlesworth did an article on converting a wooden jack plane so you can have any curve you like. The only thing is you have to refit the mouth as it opens up[
Ian


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## MikeG. (22 Sep 2020)

Sorry I've not been back to this thread for a while. I've had lots of work to do, and not enough workshop time, nor time to post a write-up here. Anyway where were we? Ah yes......coving......

I'd made these:







I'd anticipated using this thing for doing the mitres, which I've never yet used:











Unfortunately, the maximum size it fits is about half an inch smaller than the coving I'd made. Right, so I needed to make my own mitre guide:






That involved cutting an accurate 45 degree piece first, but if I can remember I've got it, that will make a useful chisel guide for mitred dovetailing. I then just cut the mitres in the orthodox way:











Time to take everything in, and glue it all together. I brought some horses in and put the oak worktop on top of them with some newspaper over it, then put everything together on top of that:











Note the little kick in the coving, where the middle cupboard is set back. That was something of a giggle to get right. The best one of the four I cut for the left hand infill piece had a crack running through it, so it broke in half. 

Here's my answer to the problem of fixing the top half of the dresser to the base unit worktop:
















Yep, I'm just going to screw it in place and slip a cover piece over the batten.

-

Remember this drawing?






Well, there's a second piece of furniture in there, on the left. It's job is to hide the underfloor heating manifold and the flow and return pipes. Whilst my wife started the painting of the dresser I thought I may as well carry on and build that thing, as I had all the wood. I started with a simple side panel, and glued it up:






I also sliced up the wood for the shelves, just to get it out of the way:











I had also started on the face frame:
















Whilst that was in clamps, I grabbed the piece of oak I'd set aside for the worktop:






Not only was it in wind:






......but it was also badly cupped:






So I ripped it lengthways, planed up the separate boards, then glued it back together again:






I used the PT, and my normal chip extraction system:






Whilst that was drying I started on the tailboard for the bookshelves that sit on the top:






That was Saturday.

I de-clamped everything on Sunday morning. I always love that job first thing in the morning. The I chiseled the dovetails:






After finishing the preparation of the oak board, which had re-joined nicely, I ripped two relief cuts along most of its length. This unit is going to suffer from being over the manifold. It will get hot and dry, and I expect shrinkage. To help mitigate any cupping, relief cuts like this do an excellent job:






I slapped on the first coat of wiping varnish/ oil mixture, and left it outside to dry:






Ooooh, I made some doors on Saturday, too. I must have forgotten to take any photos. Anyway, here I am able to set out the hinge locations prior to fitting them into the door edges, because everything is still flat:






But look at this monumental cock-up! Clearly something had gone wrong with my back-of-an-off-cut measurement, calcs, and cutting list:






Having chopped out for the hinges I could now glue the unit together:






Whilst it was still in clamps I offered it up in its location so as to check for clearances, and to scribe to the 300 year old (and decidedly wonky) wall:











I ripped a strip 6 or 7mm wide and glued it to the leading edge of each of the doors:






Whilst was waiting for glue to go off, I carried on with the shelves:











Time for a bike ride, and that was Sunday in the workshop done........

This afternoon I grabbed a couple of hours on this. I started by cleaning up the widened doors, and planing them to fit:






I made them really tight fitting because I expect substantial shrinkage:






I cut up some 95 x 19 for skirting boards:






After running the moulding on the router table, I scribed it to the stone floor, which was surprisingly un-flat:











I screwed the unit to the wall, and pinned and glued the skirting. I also mitred in the little bead on the door panels:











The first coat of paint took 3 hours on each half of the dresser. I claim no credit for that:











Finally, I marked up the top and sides of the bookshelves to avoid the pipes:






I scribed the RHS vertical to the wall. This is how much the wall is out of vertical:











Twenty mm over 1050. Oh well, that's what you get with old timber framed houses.

I marked up for the shelf locations (cook-book sized spacings), and made a quick template for a sliding dovetail:






That's it for now. I shan't get back to this until the weekend.


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## Doug71 (22 Sep 2020)

Looking good Mike. I would have put a cockbead up the middle of the manifold doors to form a rebate and hide the cock-up.

Maybe cockbeads were invented by someone who made some doors too small and that is where the name comes from?


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## AJB Temple (22 Sep 2020)

I like your work Mike. 

For some reason I don't like beads on panelled doors any more, even though they have practical advantages. 

Will be interested to see the final paint job. 

Adrian


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## MikeG. (22 Sep 2020)

Doug71 said:


> .....Looking good Mike. I would have put a cockbead up the middle of the manifold doors to form a rebate and hide the cock-up.........



I did contemplate that, Doug, and the only reason I didn't do it is that there are 4 pairs of double doors in the kitchen, and none of them have a bead at the centre join. I did it in my previous kitchen, though, when some doors shrank.


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## Coyote (22 Sep 2020)

Looking good Mike. I might have missed it but where did you source such clean pine ? It looks a lot nicer to work than what's available at my local timber merchant. Or was it just a case of spending a long time picking out good bits?


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## MikeG. (22 Sep 2020)

My local builder's merchant (Ridgeon's, Sudbury) is packed full of the stuff. It doesn't take much selecting.


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## Cabinetman (22 Sep 2020)

Very nice work Mike, and so quick! Oh and I made some doors ha ha ! Just curious Mike was it mortise and tenons on the doors? Maybe with that plywood panel you could get away with dowels I suppose. Ian


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## MikeG. (22 Sep 2020)

No, they're just tenons into the same groove that the ply goes into. It's fine for lightweight doors like these that will only get opened once in a blue moon.


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## MikeG. (27 Sep 2020)

I tried really hard to complete these two pieces of furniture and post about it this weekend before the powers-that-be could carry out their threat to ban me. You'll have to read to the end to see whether I made it or not. We left it last weekend with me just starting the bookshelves for the unit over the manifold.....

My first job was to run a rebate down the scribed back edge of the RH vertical. The astute amongst you will notice that the setting of my router table couldn't possibly produce the rebate as shown, but I had half-packed away the table when I remembered to take a photo:






This is the table folded away (router permanently attached):






That was the last thing I needed to do to before doing the jointing for the shelves. Now, remember that this shelf unit is over the underfloor heating manifold, and covers the flow and return to the boiler. It is going to get seriously heated up. I am therefore naturally concerned about wood movement, even with dried timber, so I decided to do the shelf supports with a sliding dovetail joint. The first job was to plane up a saw guide at the appropriate angle, following the template I made last weekend:











Stupidly, I only took a photo of it in situ from the back, but it was child's play to run a tenon saw along the sloped face:
















Note the knots drilled ready for filling.






Having cut the 4 stopped dovetail housings in the uprights, I marked the shoulder positions on the shelves, taken from the top piece:






It's a doddle cutting the male compared with the female, and then I simply shaped the front of the shelves:
















Having dry fitted everything together, I offered it up into position to mark up any clashes with the pipes, and to mark any feet adjustment necessary for horizontality (that's a word, isn't it?):











With everything fitting OK, back in the workshop I planed a rebate in the underside of the top piece to take the backing board:






Then it was time for a nearly-clamp-free glue up:






Whilst that was going off, I ran a rebate to the same depth as the ply in a piece of ripped down 45 x 20, cut out some ply, and glued and pinned it in place:











For the sake of continuity I'll carry on with this, but in fact there was a change of job for a couple of hours whilst the glue went off. I glued and pinned the stepped backing board into place:











...then glued a piece under the top. In hindsight, I wished I'd put a gentle curve to the under edge of this:






This is one of the out-of-temporal-order things I did whilst the glue was setting:











That then got mitred, and glued and pinned in place:






The blue tape was to repair an unfortunate dog-related handling error, but besides that I was rather pleased that it all sate rather nicely in place. I just had to shave a bit off the back to clear a pipe clamp:











That all took rather longer than I'd hoped, and with a couple of family activities I found myself tackling the scribing of the base units of the dresser into the evening. That involved gluing some thin strips on to the underside to reduce the amount that would need to be carved away elsewherewhere:






That carried on for 2 hours this morning, including the time it took to glue the 2 separate parts of the base unit together into one. There's nothing to show for it, other than a piece of furniture which sits squarely and level.

Work in the workshop started with some old bits of painted matching:





















It cropped up here a week or two back about selecting where various imperfections in the timber end up in your project. Well, here's an object lesson in that. I needed three drawer fronts out of this knotty piece of timber, and I wanted to minimise the number of knots in this prominent location:











Two minor bits of filling was all I was left with, and some off-cuts. This is why you always buy more wood than you think you need.

It's awkward doing drawer fronts with planted on beads, because you all-but final adjustment has to happen *before* you apply the bead. I actually got a micrometer out, which I never do for woodwork:
















My wife has spent about 12 hours applying 3 coats of paint to the dresser with a brush. She finished this afternoon, so when it was dry I lifted everything into place:
















....and then pushed the oak upper shelf into position:






Unfortunately, my mother chose today to have her 87th birthday, so we lost the afternoon of work to visiting her. The upshot of that is, folks, that you don't get to see the dresser finished. That's it. My final post. I'm off. Someone else will have to do all the WIPs, and keep a check on the creeping Americanisms on the forum. If you want to talk about a workshop build or other architectural matter, you can find me over at a different place ll. Cheerio.


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## AJB Temple (27 Sep 2020)

Very sorry to see you leave here Mike, though I both know and understand why. This is a very helpful resource lost to this site in my opinion. Adrian


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## AndyT (27 Sep 2020)

I've no idea why someone thinks Mike should be banned. 
I do know that he has freely given a huge amount of professional advice to many posters and has contributed to making the forum popular and useful.
I'd really like to see him able to stick around.


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## marcros (27 Sep 2020)

I feel I have missed something here, but I am sorry to see you go Mike. Thanks for everything that you have posted.


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## Steve Maskery (27 Sep 2020)

I don't know what's gone on or why, but I'm very sorry to see you go Mike. Thank you for everything you have so generously contributed.


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## Chippyjoe (27 Sep 2020)

Another person here who will miss Mike's contribution to the forum not only in his WIP's but his wealth of knowledge on other things as well.
People like him are a big loss to forum's like this when they leave, and will be "The Woodhavens" gain.


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## Steliz (27 Sep 2020)

I will also miss all of the invaluable input from Mike on this forum, I hope this can be resolved. Following the recent changes to the forum I was under the impression that any moderation was done with a fairly light touch (sunnybob's heavy handed comments aside) so it baffles me to hear that any member could break a rule that provokes such a reaction from the mods.


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## Dovetail (27 Sep 2020)

Excuse me everyone. I'm going to delete several posts and leave this thread about MikeG's build as it should be.

And posting private messages and such is not acceptable by mods or members. I hope you will give me a day to try to clear this mess up.

MikeG, I'm sorry your thread as become a mess.


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## Lons (27 Sep 2020)

You will be very sorely missed on here Mike but I'll be one of those keeping in touch on TWH2. It's a sad day when a long standing member who has contributed a lot more than most feels he needs to leave when other blatant trolls are allowed to post controversial and inflammatory comments.

It's ironic that Mike was a major influence in persuading me not to cancel my UKW account only a couple of weeks ago.


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