# charnwood........? New to turning - please help.



## Davidf (21 Apr 2007)

Hi,

Can you help?

What i am trying to do is this...

I am an audio enthusiast.....to cut a long story short I want to make audio support cones with my lathe.

These are going to be roughly 15mm in dia x 8mm high (in new money), although the size/shape could very quite a bit. 

To this end I ahve purchased a Charnwood w811 lathe, relatively inexpensively (by necessity).

I was trawling the net to try to find a wood holding chuck to hold the wood when I found some reasonably unfavourable comments regarding my machine.

So, whats the bottom line here? 

Have I been sold a pup?

What are your recommendations...should I start again?

I would say I ahve been concerned about the speed (or lack of) of my production from the lathe and tools that came with it....standard Charnwood.

I am working with seasoned oak.



hope you can help!? 




David


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## Davidf (21 Apr 2007)

I would also add that I am new to turning.



cheers


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## Paul.J (21 Apr 2007)

Hello David and welcome.
Not to sure what your trying to do but they seem small pieces.
I thought Charnwood were a resonable machine tool manufacturer.
I looked at several lathes,including the Charnwood ones,before buying the one i did,mainly through recommendations from the forum.
As for the gouges,are they sharp.
As a begginner i would say that you will need to practice first before you can start turning the items you want.Getting used to the tools and how to use them.Read books,and watch dvds,videos.
I find Oak nice to work.
I'm sure there will be more,better advice soon.
Paul.J.


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## Davidf (21 Apr 2007)

Hi Paul, 

Thanks, hope this link works....

I'll submit and see....


http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115 ... re2005.jpg


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## Davidf (21 Apr 2007)

OK,

Well, thats what Im trying to make. (the cones directly under the speakers)

At the moment i'm taking leghths of oak and turning several cones out of each length.

I'm running into the problem of how o finish a length.

ie i have say six cones on piece but daren't leave less than say 1/4 inch of wood on the machine....it snaps easily and is therefore not very safe.

I was therefore looking at the idea of purchasing a wood chuck for the machine as a means of finishing off each cone....having been produced perhapts 75% from the origional 1 foot piece of oak. (This was where I had go to when I started reading horror stories about my lathe)

Sorry, don't know how clear all this is!

BTW the cones could vary considerably in size (esp flatter) than the ones in the pic.

Any ideas on this very welcome!




cheers for now,



David


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## Newbie_Neil (22 Apr 2007)

Hi David

Welcome to the forum.

I've moved your post into the turning section as you'll get more help in here.

Cheers
Neil.


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## TEP (22 Apr 2007)

Hi David, sorry to hear about your dilemma.

As with many before you, you are finding that wood turning is not as easy as it looks. *BUT* after saying that, it is not hard once you get a bit of practice in, and one of the best ways is to find someone who can at least show you the rudiments of the craft. Then with a little practice you will be churning out those 'cones'.

The lathe you purchased is not the best around, but should be ample for what you want to do with it. As to a chuck, you'll find that you will have to pay more than the cost of your lathe for even a very simple scroll chuck. http://www.charnwood.net/ProductDesc.jsp?cat=33&stockref=W835

There are other ways to hold small pieces onto a lathe, i.e. 1/ faceplate. 2/ screw chuck. 3/ jam chuck. but IMHO I think they all make it even harder for the uninitiated who is trying to learn how to turn.

Sorry for not being very positive, but it all really depends on how many of these 'cones' you wish to make. If your going into production, fine you could warrant more expense, but if only for a few it may have been better to have found someone to turn them for you. 

*Just as a thought, have you considered making them in the shape of a pyramid, then it may be possible to shape them with a saw, then finishing them by hand.* 

I'm not trying to bring doom and gloom onto your endeavour,  just saying how I see it in my small way.

Good luck with whatever you do, and you will probably find someone else along soon who has some better ideas than I.


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## Russell (22 Apr 2007)

I was asked to make some of these cones a few years ago for a specialist hi-fi shop he paid £8.00 a cone and was selling them at double that. It was a nice little earner until his demand dropped off.


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## Paul.J (22 Apr 2007)

Thanks for the piicy Dave i see what you mean now.
I take it that you are doing these between centres.
If so i would suggest shortening the lengths of Oak,this will make the length feel more rigid to turn, so you can get say 4 out,allowing a couple of inches either end for waste,and turn your pieces as close to the finished item as you can,cutting almost through each base and top using the nice sharp parting tool,then just saw each one off,and finish by sanding.
I should think you could leave about a 6mm stub on each base and top.
Hope you can see what i mean.
Hopeless at explaining things :roll: 
Paul.J.


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## Davidf (22 Apr 2007)

Hi again,

Many thanks for all the replies.....and for moving me towhere i should have been.

How many do I want to make? 

Thats something I cant know for the moment......selling a few on is certainlly a possibilty but for now i'm having a lot of fun experimenting with different shapes/sizes/materials (does that make me really sad? hope not. The differences are actually remarkable).

The charnwood lathe was a complete shot in the dark....e bayed a month ago. I see theres a rather heavier item down inxsouth Devon (I'lltry and get a link). As an example would that be a better bet? Should I perevere with the charnwood for the moment.....maybe lliok tobuying better toools? That was what the seller candidly sugggested.

The suggestion of leaving 1/4 inch of waste wood.....that was always one possibility. I didn't like the idea of wasting the material but I agree it may be the only way. I shall have to get to know how much, or rather how little wood i can go down to before risking it breaking.

Yes, I ought to watch some one. My Mum+ Dad wanted me to do an evening course...I figured if I make thade the project too pedantic......it wasn't going to happen. Thinking today maybe the hting to do is suss out possible instruction video/DVDs?? Any good ones to be had?

Thanks again for the input.......just what was needed.

Will give this some thought.


 


cheers,


David


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## Davidf (22 Apr 2007)

Should i drive down to Devon for this!!?


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=009


Seriously, perhapts if something of a heavier nature cropped up local to me (Shropshire BTW) it might make a better idea.


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## Davidf (22 Apr 2007)

this is what they SHOULD look like.....an even product, as suggested for soem plications its best to have point, sometimes a rounded dome. (the aim is to keep the surface area contact to the minimum)

They don't (always) need to have quite such a point as these.




http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audio-isolation-f ... dZViewItem


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## TEP (22 Apr 2007)

Hi David.

Personally I wouldn't bother with the Elu lathe. If all you want to do is turn those small cones you could do it on the Charnwood machine you already have. It's just a case of deciding how you plan to hold the timber, and getting a bit of practise in.

Don't forget it's not the lathe that makes a turner, if you are a practised turner you could make something on a electric drill.


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## paulm (22 Apr 2007)

Don't need a scroll chuck for these, and your existing lathe should be fine.

Just turn between centres and finish off by hand. 

Make a sanding disc for the lathe as well and you can use that for cleaning up the remaining stubs on the bottom.

Cheers, Paul.


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## Davidf (22 Apr 2007)

TEP":3i3lwgs1 said:


> Hi David.
> 
> Don't forget it's not the lathe that makes a turner, if you are a practised turner you could make something on a electric drill.




Sounds sensible.

Instruction DVD now on order.

The lathe sanding disc also a good idea.

I did have sanding disc attachment for my drill, can't find it now, would be good to organise another.



cheers,


David


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## Losos (22 Apr 2007)

Hi David,
Welcome to the forum. The Charnwood is a heck of a lot better than my lathe so if it were me I wouldn't belt down to Devon to pick up an Elu.

As others have said I think you can do what you want with the Charnwood, it seems to me that I learn something every time i switch on my lathe, practice & technique will get you what you want.

Good luck.


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## Davidf (22 Apr 2007)

Losos":39xqyhig said:


> Hi David,
> Welcome to the forum. The Charnwood is a heck of a lot better than my lathe so if it were me I wouldn't belt down to Devon to pick up an Elu.
> 
> As others have said I think you can do what you want with the Charnwood, it seems to me that I learn something every time i switch on my lathe, practice & technique will get you what you want.
> ...




....thanks

that seems to be the concensus of opinion....re the elu......+ practice.



D.


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## greybeard (23 Apr 2007)

Practice + sharpness of chisels.

Turning is an art form with a bit of science thrown in - practice puts your artistic capabilities to work, a scientifically sharp chisel is the channel!

As others have said, the quality - perceived/imagined/dreamt/formulated or otherwise - of lathe and/or chisels is not so important. There are members here who've achieved very acceptable results with very basic tools. 

Turning sharp is not like carpentry sharp, a new mindset is required - turning speeds of relatively small diameter objects can break UK speed limits at the edges. Imagine leaning out of a car window, with a face protection device on of course!, dragging a chisel face along the tarmac at 30 mph.....you lose that honed sharp edge fairly quickly (DAMHIKT).

There are monster threads on this site all about the thorny topic of aharpening, read enjoy and learn at your leisure. 

Which is all a very long-winded way of saying that without sharp chisels you will not have a happy turning experience. So you need to practice sharpening too!

As for the target size for stubs or end bits it all depends on how you hold the wood. If you stay with spindle turning you will need to allow for the wood 'holders' (aka the centres) at either end actually sticking in a bit, but that's all. Again, practice! 

Good luck


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## Davidf (23 Apr 2007)

greybeard":2j8vcujl said:


> Practice + sharpness of chisels.




I suspect this is the major part of it.

I do now have wheel grinder with coarse+fine stones....I'll have look at those threads.....




Thanks vm!


David


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## Davidf (23 Apr 2007)

Hi

I was just having a around at the other posts sililar to my own....I see a reference to "Keiths Book" re sharpening tools.

Could some one tellme how to obtain this?




thanks again,


D.


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## Paul.J (23 Apr 2007)

*Davidf wrote*
I see a reference to "Keiths Book" re sharpening tools. 
David.It is just one chapter out of the book.
link
Paul.J.


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## Davidf (23 Apr 2007)

Ordered..thank you.

Sounds like its quite informative.



D.


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## wood yew believe it ! (24 Apr 2007)

D. that will b about the best bit of literature you will ever read on turning......enjoy! 

atb dave :wink:


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## Davidf (24 Apr 2007)

cheers..... sounds a good recomendation.


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## Paul.J (25 Apr 2007)

Hello David.
Yes it is a good book some good projects and tips.
Another i like is Richard Raffans TURNING WOOD.This has a companion video-dvd.Take a look
here
Paul.J.


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## Davidf (25 Apr 2007)

TEP":3pvss7aw said:


> . If your going into production, fine you could warrant more expense, but if only for a few it may have been better to have found someone to turn them for you.




but far more satifying to do your self!

Just received the DVDs ...gave them a quick run last night and soon started dicovering my errors!

(thanks for that Paul...I'll have a look))


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## Davidf (28 Apr 2007)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=018

...anyone else in this position (total beginner) I found this DVD tutorial very good. 

Starting to make better progress now. 

There are some good pointers there, just to get you going.

Amazon delivered Keiths book in VERY quick time (+ v.good deal, thanks Paul). I might say its a very nice publication, highly informative ..........+clearly illustrated with lots of diagrams to break up the text......therefore easy to read. I have just dipped into it so far. Its going to be very useful, although its almost too nice to use!

Good recommendation.


 



cheers for now,




David


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## Davidf (29 May 2007)

I thought I'd done this once but it wasn't on the forum just now....if I HAVE repeated myself...perhats you'll bare with me.

The point of my note is to thank the helpful members who asssited me with my "audio cone"project....

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q115 ... CN0003.jpg



....coming on well.

this pic was taken before I'd tidied the neck up a bit.

Any clues on how I got those lines in the wood?

Also, perhpts some one could give me guide on how to sharpen a parting tool. I do have Keith Rowleys book....it might just put another slant on it (no pun intended)

Thanks again




 






David


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## CHJ (29 May 2007)

Davidf":1gf8keu4 said:


> Any clues on how I got those lines in the wood?
> David



What tool did you use?

I would suggest that if it was a bowl gouge then it is an indication of intermittent bevel contact/pressure, sometimes just cutting sometimes burnishing the just cut surface.

If you were using the parting tool then it is an indication of intermittent feed of cut, with the fibre displacement varying with speed of advancement or alignment of tool.


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## Davidf (30 May 2007)

For that tapering slooping edge is was using the side of a skew chisel. Not sure if thats technically wrong (?) , I think I got the idea from my tutor DVD.



Thanks vm,






D.


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## CHJ (30 May 2007)

Davidf":39osrp3b said:


> For that tapering slooping edge is was using the side of a skew chisel. Not sure if thats technically wrong (?) , I think I got the idea from my tutor DVD.
> Thanks vm,
> D.



If you find that is the easiest way for you to get the taper you want, I would suggest you take a light finishing cut with a sharp bowl gouge making sure the bevel is firmly rubbing the cut surface, this should give you a uniform polished surface.


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## Davidf (30 May 2007)

This is almost taking thoughts right out of my head.....

The dvd + book shows a tool like a long thin sharp tea spoon like design; I haven;'t put a name to it. Is that a spindle gouge...or a bowl gouge?

I did buy a spindle gouge recently , its very useful but sometimes to bulky for the gaps I need to get into. 



tvm



 




D.


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## CHJ (30 May 2007)

see this link (last few pictures)for typical spindle gouge shapes.

To get into confined spaces you operate with the gouge turned on its side, presenting a narrow vertical cutting edge to the work but maintaining bevel contact with the cut surface. Be careful that the top wings of the gouge do not catch on the opposite face of your groove.


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## Davidf (31 May 2007)

thankyou.



 



David


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