# If Carlsberg made knives.....



## Graham Orm (22 Oct 2014)

I've watched quite a few knife making videos, but this guy is the best I've seen by far. He creates a beautiful tool and sheath.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQUxFFON5Lo


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## Fromey (22 Oct 2014)

That was quite impressive. Looks like he goes through a lot of sandpaper.


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## Ian down london way (22 Oct 2014)

Watched the lot - mesmerized. Astounding quality. 

I'd not mind if my chisels were that sharp.


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## jimi43 (22 Oct 2014)

Fascinating!!

I want that linisher!!! :shock: 

How hard can it be to make one.....mmmm.

I simply have to watch that until I can remember all the fabulous tips and jigs....and the place it so clean!!

I'm putting a bucket of water under my sander tomorrow...!!! :mrgreen: 

Thanks for sharing....made my night.

Jimi


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## jimi43 (22 Oct 2014)

Oh...is it my imagination or was the tip blued on the final frames?

Nah...can't have been....

J


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Oct 2014)

Jimi, I saw your name and thought - yes, I know what the comment's going to be - never mind the knife, look at the equipment! :shock:


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## Harbo (22 Oct 2014)

Nice knife and amazing kit - handle and sheath a bit crude I thought?

Rod


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## jimi43 (22 Oct 2014)

phil.p":14hg9852 said:


> Jimi, I saw your name and thought - yes, I know what the comment's going to be - never mind the knife, look at the equipment! :shock:



HA!

You know me too well mate...am I REALLY that bad!!?  

Actually....I hate to say it but even though the build quality is exquisite....I didn't like the shape nor the design of the knife...too fat and Rambo for my liking.... 

Now...a nice piece of Damascus and some Engish boxwood..... :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## Kalimna (22 Oct 2014)

Interesting video, unusual choice of steel for a blade I thought (A2), although perhaps that is because I'm more familiar with kitchen knives than 'outdoor' blades. At some point in the future I'd like to have a go at making a knife, but not for a while methinks.

Adam

P.s. Jimi - I wholeheartedly agree re: aesthetics.


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## Noel (22 Oct 2014)

jimi43":nzwumt1g said:


> Fascinating!!
> 
> I want that linisher!!! :shock:
> 
> ...



Thanks too.

You could certain build something similar, maybe smaller.







Retails at $750 US without the motor. Belts (72" x 2") would be a fortune but imagine they would last a long time.


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## 8squared (23 Oct 2014)

Very nice work, the knife and handle are lovely but for something as nice the sheath could be nicer.


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2014)

Thanks Noel...that picture will come in handy.

I have a source of DC motors..I have a spare SX3 speed controller board...some aluminium bar...or even hardwood would do...some bearings..the rest of my wife's exercise bike....mmmmmm eminently feasible!

This forum is the bees knees! :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## paulm (23 Oct 2014)

Really interesting video, thanks.

Don't forget the particular application for that knife, being an antartic research mission, which would inform the choice of blade material, size and shape and materials of handle and or sheath too. While an O1 bladed, wooden handle and leather sheath for example would work in that environment too, the choice of actual materials and design suggests a very functional, low maintenance and long lasting tool for use with thick gloves on and in a wet and cold environment ?

I've got a spare motor knocking about getting in the way....... :-k (hammer) 

Cheers, Paul


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## Kalimna (23 Oct 2014)

Although, if you look of his website, the choice of A2 seems standard, not necessarily custom for polar use. The aesthetics, I appreciate are somewhat dictated by use, but that handle and scabbard material is also standard, the difference being the colours.
Still, a fabulous tool.

Adam


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Oct 2014)

Maybe we are accustomed to knives of that quality being collector's pieces and ornaments, whereas these are obviously designed for use. This could explain our expectations of material and design choices being different.


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## Racers (23 Oct 2014)

He has all the kit hasn't he, wish I had that much!

Still you don't need it all to make knives I made these with a drill press some files and a barque.





Pete


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## Kalimna (23 Oct 2014)

Indeed, but A2 is still, I think, unusual in knife use. But hey, at least it will be getting a second cryogenic treatment 

Cheers,
Adam

P.s Pete - lovely clean lines, are the handles cocobolo? King wood?


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

Kydex is available on Ebay and is inexpensive. It's used a lot for hand gun holsters in the US as once made to the shape of the gun, it requires no clip and just relies on a neat 'click' friction hold like the knife at the end of the video. Not pretty but very functional.

After all said about arctic conditions and the blade, I'm left wondering if the extreme cold would make the Kydex brittle?


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

Racers":3aq9neql said:


> He has all the kit hasn't he, wish I had that much!
> 
> Still you don't need it all to make knives I made these with a drill press some files and a barque.
> 
> ...



Gorgeous!


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## Noel (23 Oct 2014)

Whole new world out there with home made belt sanders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiWhflmTACc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEZhs7gwpNQ

From an old Skil belt sander: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppNgL_Lo1PE

The original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYllaxuzMk0

Many, many more on Youtube.

Be interesting if you do indeed make one Jim.


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## bugbear (23 Oct 2014)

Noel":3njxnp4y said:


> jimi43":3njxnp4y said:
> 
> 
> > Fascinating!!
> ...



This appears to be the maker of the linisher, but they no longer list it, that I can see.

http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/

Edit; my mistake (politely pointed out by Noel)

http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/shop/ ... ?itemid=11

BugBear


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## marcros (23 Oct 2014)

A WIP here http://www.britishblades.com/forums/sho ... -a-Grinder 

I cant see the pictures at work, but i think that they at least used to be on the thread.

or http://downlandengineeringservices.com/belt_grinders/ for the chaps own site.


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## bugbear (23 Oct 2014)

His bevel grinding jig (used on the now-famous linisher) was geometrically interesting;

Due to the large planar tool rest, the workpiece had full freedom in X and Y, but was fully constrained in the presentation angle by the jig.

The motion is simply the jig's (flat) base over the tool rests flat surface, a bit like a surface gauge on a surface plate.

BugBear


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2014)

Noel":gwvijwwl said:


> Whole new world out there with home made belt sanders:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiWhflmTACc
> 
> ...



Oh Noel...what have you done!!? :lol: 

There are both ends of the spectrum in those videos aren't there!? :shock: 

I have to admit...not only does the aluminium one look cooler...it also looks easier..I can't weld and I don't have a pickup truck! :mrgreen: 

Way too big for my use though...but about the right width band...if not too small...maybe 75mm would be better.

I spend the morning looking at aluminium extrusion suppliers...and I found one I like...now...the 2 x72" belts are US so I wonder what is a smaller size in the UK...I would probably want wider but shorter...a small variable speed DC motor similar to the one on my lathe and mill..., I have the speed controller...so set of rollers...that should be fun to source....and a few brackets...

Job done! :mrgreen: 

Isn't it amazing how something as simple as a little thread on knives turns into a major project....

I have now decided I need a new workshop to put all this in...so the garage is getting cleared...which means a skip....

Thanks mate! :wink: 

Jim


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Oct 2014)

75mm? Maybe 50mm would be more versatile, as it would go into concavities better?


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## Noel (23 Oct 2014)

Jim, look forward to a new WIP build thread.
Very soon........


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## Phil Pascoe (23 Oct 2014)

And a thread on "how I learned to weld"? :lol:


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## whiskywill (23 Oct 2014)

Racers":uqz9bvxn said:


> with a drill press some files and a barque.



Why do you need a small sailing ship when making a knife? What is the barque you are using?


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2014)

phil.p":1y1bkoah said:


> 75mm? Maybe 50mm would be more versatile, as it would go into concavities better?



Ah...I bow to your experience there Phil....see...I would have gone off half-cocked before I even started.

So...50mm it is...I have an account with METALLIN so I guess I must be fairly serious but I have to finish a few jobs first...the first of which is an X-Y table for my Proxxon mini drill....wait...hang on...I can use the same type of extrusion then...

Sorted! 8) 

I will stick a WIP in Metalworking...sound's like a plan!

And ALFIE says he's gonna supply the barque!! 

Coat....?  

Yes...I think that one deserves the coat....  

Jimi


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## Racers (23 Oct 2014)

whiskywill":ox5ti2f8 said:


> Racers":ox5ti2f8 said:
> 
> 
> > with a drill press some files and a barque.
> ...




Its that Smell Checker and my dislx diselx dis..word blinddednes.


Pete


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

This week only....I think. http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-249 ... l&id=17455


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## Racers (23 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":121ce1xl said:


> This week only....I think. http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/our-offers-249 ... l&id=17455




Yep that's tempting at that price.

Pete


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## Mr_P (23 Oct 2014)

Thanks Grayorm, I'm very tempted.

My parkside hand held beltsander has taken some punishment and is still going strong.



> Includes an adjustable, transparent spark protector and metal protective hoods for maximum safety



What no bucket of water ?

Any idea of what make dremmel he is using (start of the video), I need one for that exact purpose.


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

Nope, he's in the UK and has responded to a comment I left on his vid so will ask.


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## Racers (23 Oct 2014)

Mr_P":3aex9hum said:


> Thanks Grayorm, I'm very tempted.
> 
> My parkside hand held beltsander has taken some punishment and is still going strong.
> 
> ...



It says JOBM on the side so Jobmate? looks like a cheap one, my Aldi/Lidl one works fine and was £13 or so.

Pete

Found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxtech_Consumer_Products so looks like Canadian.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Hey All!
Grayorm pointed me to this thread, thanks for taking a look at the video!

Lots of questions I can see, I'll answer them each as well as I can.

First up though, the 'dremel' that I'm using is actually a super cheap (and very poor quality) store brand rotary tool. Wouldn't recommend it if I'm honest. I picked it up for $14 when I was off-site for a job and it's managed to hang around (read: not die) since then!

There were a few questions as to why I use A2 steel and kydex for my sheaths:

I decided to use A2 after I did a lot of testing with various steels, I would love to post links to the testing but my account is not enabled for that yet apparently.

The summary is that A2 is tougher, more corrosion resistant and holds an edge better than O1. It actually has performance practically identical to the toughest of the high-end powder steels CPM3V. It's MUCH tougher than any of the stainlesses that I've tried so far, though I have a new heat-treat lined up for testing with CPM154 that I expect will improve it's results quite a bit.

That huge amount of toughness that A2 has lets me take my blades to a very high hardness (62.5HRC, 800 Vickers HV), while still keeping my blades very thin (they're 0.38mm thick behind the edge). The combination of high hardness and thin geometry produces a knife that cuts easily and holds it's edge very well. Bear in mind that these knives are meant to see hard use like splitting firewood and so on, if I was making knives for say kitchen use I could go even thinner in the blade.

A2 would be a bit of unusual choice for a knife made in the UK or Europe as I believe it's much less available there, in North America it's much more common so it was a natural choice to test. Next year I'll be doing another round of steel testing comparing A2 to more of the high end powder steels like CPM3V, CPM4V, CPMS35VN, as well as some time-tested favourites like AEB-L and 1095.

As for Kydex: I'm definitely aware that kydex is less pretty than leather, however it also has much less maintenance associated with it. Moisture and varying climates pose no problems for it, and it's great for someone that uses their knife a lot as it retains the knife without need for clasps or straps. It has it's downsides, it tends to scratch blades and it's definitely not as pretty as leather, but given my current options I think it's overall the best choice for a working knife.

Regarding kydex in cold climates, I did some testing on this just recently. The result is that kydex definitely loses toughness at low temperatures (I was testing at -50ºC or lower), but you'd need to really beat on it to get it to crack/fail still. I used a hammer  I'll be investigating new options for sheath materials early next year. For instance I wasn't aware that Zytel (fibre reinforced nylon) was available in sheets the same way that Kydex is, that looks like it might be a good candidate for a wider range of service temperatures!

To be clear, you don't need anywhere near this number of tools to make knives, just the extra tools help the job go quickly and consistently. I have a number of videos on my YouTube channel that show basic jigs for filing bevels, and also simple heat-treat recipes for O1... I'll be doing some more instructional videos soon showing how to make knives with the bare minimum of tools.

Let me know if you guys have any other questions! If we can setup my account to post URLs I'll happily provide links to more detailed photos of my grinding jig and so on.

All the best,
Aaron


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## marcros (23 Oct 2014)

a couple more posts and you can post links.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

marcros":2oafwlb9 said:


> a couple more posts and you can post links.



I figured it was something along those lines, it's been a while since I signed up for a new forum!


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## Noel (23 Oct 2014)

Hi Aaron, more importantly tell us (well me and Jim : )) about the Beaumont belt grinder. What grit do you have on it?


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## Mr_P (23 Oct 2014)

How is your fireball cnc, 3 years on ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdIrY0 ... N4n3ERmhMA


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## Kalimna (23 Oct 2014)

Many thanks indeed for taking the time to make such an informative post. It's always interesting to hear directly from the toolmaker the reasons for their choices.
Cheers,
Adam


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Noel":26kedbgg said:


> Hi Aaron, more importantly tell us (well me and Jim : )) about the Beaumont belt grinder. What grit do you have on it?



Haha, yes sir! 

There were 2 main belts you saw in the video. The first was the one I used for profiling the blank and that was a 36 grit Norton Blaze belt, the second was the one I used while doing the bevels and that was a 60 Grit blaze belt.

The belts aren't that expensive (at least over here in Canada). The blaze belts are the high-end option as they use artificial ceramic grit, and those are $7-9 each. There are cheaper ceramic options for around $5-6 each. Aluminum oxide belts in higher grits run $2-3 each.

The blaze belts last an astonishingly long time. I get at least 10+ knives from each belt doing bevels. The 36 grit belt I use for the profiling has probably done 20+ knives at this point, as well as a lot of other rough work.

I have changed my grinding process a little since doing that video. I now do the majority of my bevel grinding with a 120 blaze belt, then I use 400 & 600 grit Aluminum Oxide belts to finish the bevels. I do the finishing freehand as I find it helps me avoid washing out the plunge lines.

The grinder is a really nice machine. It's 2HP, with fully electronic variable speed. The motor is a TEFC motor, and the speed control is NEMA4X rated, which means it's sealed so well you can even wash it down with a hose! That's great as otherwise the metal dust would get inside and cause issues.

That grinder hurt my wallet quite a lot when I bought it, but I've never had a single issue with it so it was definitely money well spent. The company that makes them won't export them outside the US, so I had to beg a friend to pick it up for me while he was on holiday! To get one outside of the US you'd have to use a freight forwarding service, which honestly shouldn't be difficult, just costly.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Mr_P":2e0w7abg said:


> How is your fireball cnc, 3 years on ?
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdIrY0 ... N4n3ERmhMA



Funny story about that machine! I ended up selling it to a woodworker as I was looking to upgrade to a small CNC mill. However the money got absorbed by other things in my shop like the grinder...

They guy I sold the CNC to ended up becoming a friend as I helped him learn the basics of CNC and running that machine. He's put well over 1000 hours of runtime on that machine making these 3D wooden tiles that is one of his specialties. The machine is still going strong though it's definitely required a fair bit of upkeep over the years.

He's just bought a new machine (4'x8' ShopBot) and I'll actually be buying the Fireball back off him, mainly for the electronics which I way over-specced for that machine. The electronics (stepper drivers and stepper motors) are quite capable of running a medium sized CNC mill!

It's a cool little machine and it will be coming back to do duty engraving the logos on my knives until the electronics get donated to a more sturdy machine.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Kalimna":3f4d47vg said:


> Many thanks indeed for taking the time to make such an informative post. It's always interesting to hear directly from the toolmaker the reasons for their choices.
> Cheers,
> Adam



No worries! I always love chatting with other people that make things, whatever they may be!


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

Hi Aaron, thanks for joining up. You'll find this an interesting forum with decent guys and no squabbling.....unless you mention the 'S' word. (Sharpening).


Uh-oh....................here we go.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":1qdkwyxa said:


> Hi Aaron, thanks for joining up. You'll find this an interesting forum with decent guys and no squabbling.....unless you mention the 'S' word. (Sharpening).
> 
> 
> Uh-oh....................here we go.



Sounds like a good place!


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## Mr_P (23 Oct 2014)

> Sounds like a good place!



Looks like you are in a good place.



> Orders are currently closed...
> 
> Due to the overwhelming number of orders I have been receiving I have had to close my order list in order to catch up. Sorry for the inconvenience, and thank-you for all your support!



Congratulations, it's good to see a craftsman being rewarded for his skill/research and hard work.

=D> =D> =D>


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Mr_P":fi0vn9wl said:


> > Sounds like a good place!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks mate! It's very hard to even consider keeping up with demand because I'm still working on the knives part-time whenever I'm not at my day job. I'm looking at ways to move toward making it more of my overall work in the future though.

My main concern is that I don't want making things to become 'just another job' so I'm trying to make sure I work smart, rather than just busting my @ss for the next 50 years. I have a lot of respect for those that are able to do the same thing over and over for the long haul but unfortunately I'm not cut out for that (neither mentally nor physically).

With that in mind I'm trying to work out how to be clever about it going forward. I really love robotics and CNC (I'm a software developer by day) so I'm looking to see where it make sense to incorporate newer tech into my process. I think the combination of old-school ideals regarding quality mixed with modern tech can be a very powerful thing!


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2014)

Thanks for joining up Aaron...definitely a great move for all concerned...it's wonderful seeing something fresh and new once in a while and we don't get much knife stuff on the hand tool forum.

Yes...the grinder..marvellous...I have never seen that design before and now that I have the idea in my head...I think another project is afoot!

Sadly there is never enough time in the day for all these things...

I am now off to watch the rest of your videos....not a major knife fan (sorry!  ) but I certainly want to see the kit in use again!

Cheers

Jimi


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

jimi43":osq5ztff said:


> I am now off to watch the rest of your videos....not a major knife fan (sorry!  ) but I certainly want to see the kit in use again!



No worries on that front!

One of the nice thing about knifemaking is that the skills involved are also applicable to many other hand tools. Making chisels and plane irons for instance would mainly be a case of design changes, the metallurgy side of it is pretty much 100% overlapping with knifemaking. Having the skills to make metal tools is hugely useful, and not nearly as difficult as many would suspect!


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## Mr_P (23 Oct 2014)

Has anyone done an a2 infill plane ?

Come on Aaron, you know you want too.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Mr_P":327a1crj said:


> Has anyone done an a2 infill plane ?
> 
> Come on Aaron, you know you want too.



Can't say I've ever seen an infill plane before, the photos I just got after a quick Google look beautiful!

I don't have any plans to make plane irons just yet. A2 plane irons are definitely available, can't say I've seen any in the high end powder steels though! I'm sure a plane iron made from CPMM4 at 61+HRC would be pretty amazing!


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## Graham Orm (23 Oct 2014)

Look up Holtey Planes Aaron.....they'll make you drool.







Had you for a Brit for some reason?


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## lanemaux (23 Oct 2014)

Hi Aaron and welcome to the looney bin. And as a fellow Canuckian , glad to have ya amigo. In Canadian terms I'm just down the road from you in Beautiful Bruce County (capitalization intentional). You are gonna love these guys , trust me. They've put up with my nonsense for quite some time which speaks well for their patience . And we have a pretty fair number of genuine experts in a wide variety of fields , so plenty to talk about. As I've not made any of my own knives yet I look forward to many an illuminating chat with you on the subject, be kind though as I may catch on a bit slowly.


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## aarongough (23 Oct 2014)

Grayorm":262sezey said:


> Look up Holtey Planes Aaron.....they'll make you drool.
> 
> 
> 
> Had you for a Brit for some reason?



Looks amazing! Love the dovetailed brass and steel, as well as the dark wood (looks like ebony or maybe ironwood?)

I'm an Aussie mate, living in Canada. I guess you could say I'm an ex-brit


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## jimi43 (23 Oct 2014)

Mr_P":jj00pg2o said:


> Has anyone done an a2 infill plane ?......



Wash your mouth out with hardened, powdered lemming Mr Punch!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## cusimar9 (23 Oct 2014)

Wonderful looking knives there, I can't wait until I can have a crack at making one myself. Just need a couple more tools first.

Keep up the good work!


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## Kalimna (23 Oct 2014)

I have a thought in the back of my head that Konrad Sauer (another chap residing in Canada) has made an A2 infill plane, and from his blog I know he has been using the Veritas PM steel for blades. 
At some point I would like to acquire a Sauer plane, but haven't won the lottery yet, so.......

Cheers,
Adam


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## aarongough (24 Oct 2014)

Kalimna":1j0dk4jm said:


> I have a thought in the back of my head that Konrad Sauer (another chap residing in Canada) has made an A2 infill plane, and from his blog I know he has been using the Veritas PM steel for blades.
> At some point I would like to acquire a Sauer plane, but haven't won the lottery yet, so.......
> 
> Cheers,
> Adam



I will say that I'm very curious about what that Veritas PM steel actually is. They never give the 'real' name of the steel, instead they have their branded name. Seems like a nice steel though!


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## Noggsy (26 Oct 2014)

Aaron, welcome to the forum, your knives are beautiful and I think you'll fit right in here. If you want to see a stunning infill, have a look at this thread by our very own own Jimi (who's also a bit, err, obsessive about details, in a good way :lol: );

the-ukw-infill-project-t64219.html


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## aarongough (28 Oct 2014)

Noggsy":20qv42be said:


> Aaron, welcome to the forum, your knives are beautiful and I think you'll fit right in here. If you want to see a stunning infill, have a look at this thread by our very own own Jimi (who's also a bit, err, obsessive about details, in a good way :lol: );
> 
> the-ukw-infill-project-t64219.html



Beautiful looking tool!

I love the dovetailed base. I have never thought of peening the metal into a dovetail like that, something I will have to remember!


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## jimi43 (28 Oct 2014)

aarongough":1vixw9fm said:


> Noggsy":1vixw9fm said:
> 
> 
> > Aaron, welcome to the forum, your knives are beautiful and I think you'll fit right in here. If you want to see a stunning infill, have a look at this thread by our very own own Jimi (who's also a bit, err, obsessive about details, in a good way :lol: );
> ...



Glad you're around Aaron...I was going to ask you a few questions if I may about decarbonization of the fine edges....something I will probably encounter soon.

I assume that's why you wrap the knife in thermal foil...nickel..stainless steel...what do you use?

I tried finding some in the UK but I can only buy a huge roll for lots of dosh so I was probably just going to go with the old trick of sticking some charcoal in the kiln to eat up the oxygen...

Your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Jimi

p.s. thanks for the kind words on the panel plane.


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## aarongough (28 Oct 2014)

jimi43":1v7z3z8e said:


> aarongough":1v7z3z8e said:
> 
> 
> > Noggsy":1v7z3z8e said:
> ...



Hey mate!
Decarburization is definitely a concern when heat-treating. I use 309 stainless foil and anti-scale compound to keep oxygen from the blade. There is a compound available in the UK called 'Turco' which functions well as an anti-scale. The foil is necessary for tool steels like A2 that are kept at high temps for a long time. With steels like O1 where the temps are lower and the hold times shorter there is not so much need for the foil, you can usually get away with just using an anti-scale compound. Foil is also very hard to use in combination with an oil quench.

If you need to make an anti-scale compound for yourself then I believe you can do so by making a 'slip' of potters clay, and then dissolving some borax into it. This mixture would then be painted onto the steel (after it's thoroughly degreased) and left to dry before heat-treating. When quenching the coating should separate off the knife due to the thermal shock.

Also: I'd recommend staying away from using charcoal in the kiln. Most kiln elements aren't rated for being run in a reducing atmosphere (high Co2 atmosphere) as they rely on a protective oxide layer to preserver their life. Using charcoal in a kiln with 'normal' elements will significantly reduce their life.

I believe there are some kilns with special elements that are fine with reducing atmospheres, if you have one of those then you're a lucky guy!


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## jimi43 (28 Oct 2014)

Hi Arron

That is a most helpful advice indeed....and I was thinking that 01 might be a little easier...using foil as you say would be a nightmare with quenching in the oil..that was my conundrum!

I will seek out "Turco" and do some more research about this...I don't really want to ruin all the work so far.

All part of the learning curve I guess...

As for charcoal...I will heed your advice...the element seems to be imbedded in firebrick and completely encased from the inner environment...












I've no idea what make..it's for enamelling...

What do you reckon?

Thanks again

Jimi


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## aarongough (28 Oct 2014)

jimi43":2t38axgu said:


> Hi Arron
> 
> That is a most helpful advice indeed....and I was thinking that 01 might be a little easier...using foil as you say would be a nightmare with quenching in the oil..that was my conundrum!
> 
> ...



That's an amazing little kiln! With the enclosed elements I doubt you're likely to have problems, but I'd still be cautious.

If the anti-scale works properly then you likely won't need the charcoal. I've heat-treated O1 in my kiln using anti-scale many times. The anti-scale usually blew off completely during the quench leaving the steel a pleasant matt grey. It sanded back to it's original finish very quickly using some 600 grit sandpaper.

I think anti-scale such as Turco would be a very good fit for your needs.


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## jimi43 (28 Oct 2014)

aarongough":11xgkjxt said:


> That's an amazing little kiln! With the enclosed elements I doubt you're likely to have problems, but I'd still be cautious.
> 
> If the anti-scale works properly then you likely won't need the charcoal. I've heat-treated O1 in my kiln using anti-scale many times. The anti-scale usually blew off completely during the quench leaving the steel a pleasant matt grey. It sanded back to it's original finish very quickly using some 600 grit sandpaper.
> 
> I think anti-scale such as Turco would be a very good fit for your needs.



Yes...I was rather lucky getting that..another find in a Kentish field..at a bootfair...£25 and at the time I thought it was probably going to be a waste of money as I had thought my wife would want to use it to make jewellery but she wasn't interested. So a lucky accident really...I walked away from it once!

I'll get the anti-scale..that should do it..stick some charcoal in it for luck and then plunge at about 45 degrees into the big tub of oil as I normally do and see how it goes...

Cheers for the tips

Jimi


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## Harbo (29 Oct 2014)

There's a topic on the Blade.com forum where Turco gets a bit of criticism- there's a new spray on the block which seems to perform well?

Rod


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## whiskywill (29 Oct 2014)

Racers":1my40xx0 said:


> whiskywill":1my40xx0 said:
> 
> 
> > Racers":1my40xx0 said:
> ...




Still no wiser. :? What is barque supposed to be?


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## aarongough (29 Oct 2014)

Harbo":ij78rz8o said:


> There's a topic on the Blade.com forum where Turco gets a bit of criticism- there's a new spray on the block which seems to perform well?
> 
> Rod



I haven't used Turco personally as it's not available over here... If there's something better then that sounds like the way to go!


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## jimi43 (29 Oct 2014)

I have searched everywhere I can in the UK to no avail....

TURCO seems to be unavailable...so I went looking for ATP-641....no luck....

So I have ordered some fire cement powder and Borax crystals to make a slip and am going to try that....

Unless someone knows of a source of anti-scale spray or paint available in the UK....it is a most elusive beastie! #-o 

Jimi


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## AndyT (29 Oct 2014)

whiskywill":dgie4vqp said:


> Still no wiser. :? What is barque supposed to be?



Barbeque!


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## jimi43 (29 Oct 2014)

AndyT":2wdt1sai said:


> whiskywill":2wdt1sai said:
> 
> 
> > Still no wiser. :? What is barque supposed to be?
> ...



Not very safe having a barbeque on a boat Andy..... :mrgreen: 

Jimi


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## AndyT (29 Oct 2014)

Jim - you seem to be going all modern again here, with your electric furnace and branded compounds. Cross-linking this thread with the other one on floats and reading back a bit in Holtzapffel's Big Book, it says on page 831 that this is what file and rasp makers do:

"Previously to their being hardened, the files are drawn through beer grounds, yeast, or other sticky matter, and then through common salt, mixed with cow's hoof previously roasted and pounded, and which serve as a defence to protect the delicate teeth of the file from the direct action of the fire..."

I'm sure Annie wouldn't mind if you take over the kitchen for spot of cow hoof processing, if you explain that it's all in the cause of better tool making! :wink:


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## jimi43 (29 Oct 2014)

AndyT":3ddtm5jo said:


> Jim - you seem to be going all modern again here, with your electric furnace and branded compounds. Cross-linking this thread with the other one on floats and reading back a bit in Holtzapffel's Big Book, it says on page 831 that this is what file and rasp makers do:
> 
> "Previously to their being hardened, the files are drawn through beer grounds, yeast, or other sticky matter, and then through common salt, mixed with cow's hoof previously roasted and pounded, and which serve as a defence to protect the delicate teeth of the file from the direct action of the fire..."
> 
> I'm sure Annie wouldn't mind if you take over the kitchen for spot of cow hoof processing, if you explain that it's all in the cause of better tool making! :wink:



I did actually consider the cow's hoof process....but in the end I dismissed it as just a load of bull!!! :mrgreen: 

I'll get me smock....  

Jimi


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## whiskywill (30 Oct 2014)

AndyT":2dmvj8mb said:


> whiskywill":2dmvj8mb said:
> 
> 
> > Still no wiser. :? What is barque supposed to be?
> ...



Thanks. Now it makes sense.


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## Harbo (31 Oct 2014)

This is the anti scale stuff:

http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 23076.aspx

Rod


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## jimi43 (31 Oct 2014)

Harbo":1bj4cru0 said:


> This is the anti scale stuff:
> 
> http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... 23076.aspx
> 
> Rod



Yes...APT-641....but I can't find it in the UK Rod...that's the problem.

Jimi


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## Tom K (31 Oct 2014)

Did you find the manufacturers site Jim? Perhaps if you drop them an e-mail they can locate a supplier. 
http://www.advancedtechnicalprod.com/index.html 

While searching around I came across this site. 
http://www.midwayuk.com/epages/Midway_UK.sf/en_GB/? 
They don't stock the stuff you are looking for but looks like somewhere you would enjoy a nose around (hammer) For the gun smithing tools and supplies not that I think you have Rambo ambitions.


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## jimi43 (31 Oct 2014)

Tom K":29fib74r said:


> Did you find the manufacturers site Jim? Perhaps if you drop them an e-mail they can locate a supplier.
> http://www.advancedtechnicalprod.com/index.html
> 
> While searching around I came across this site.
> ...



Cheers Tom....I emailed them.

Thanks for the link to the UK gun site...some rather dubious stuff there..."just add a tube" comes to mind! :mrgreen: 

Strangely on almost all the products it says "SPECIAL ORDER" or "OUT OF STOCK"...so I presume they don't actually sell much...unless that refers to the action of the bullet? :mrgreen: 

Coat...seems like such a nice day but I will get it...  

Jimi


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2015)

Racers":1016vi38 said:


> He has all the kit hasn't he, wish I had that much!
> 
> Still you don't need it all to make knives I made these with a drill press some files and a barque.
> 
> ...



Zombie thread revival!

Pete - I've just lucked into a nice old cooks knife, circa 1900, with rusty tang and lifting scales.

I would welcome information (probably just some links) on rehandling, especially rivets, pros/cons of washers+rivets, peining etc,

BugBear


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## Racers (12 Jan 2015)

Hi BB

I would remove the old scales and either make new ones or clean them up and refit using epoxy and pins.

If you are making new scales what are you making the scales out of?
Wood, I would recommend epoxy and rivets, mine are only slightly peinned over the epoxy does most of the job.
Corian, epoxy and pins just epoxy every thing together you might split the Corian by peining.

I have a sink cut out of black Corian you are welcome to a piece.

Its not rocket science as long as the scales stay on that's all you need, they aren't subjected to a lot of force and the epoxy will stop moisture causing problems under the scales.
I have some SS cooks knifes that I need to re-handle, the aluminum rivets have started to disintegrate through to many dishwasher cycles.

Any pics?

Pete


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2015)

Racers":12rsqp8g said:


> I would remove the old scales and either make new ones or clean them up and refit using epoxy and pins.
> 
> If you are making new scales what are you making the scales out of?


cotoneaster-t79087.html

I like the idea of keeping it super "local".

But I also have various small pieces of exotica including boxwood, rosewood, lignum vitae,
and some funnies from India (Axminster show) and Australia (visit to a wood store on vacation).

(kitchen) Knife scales ain't very big on resource.  

How do I rivet the pins without splitting the scales? (I could have sworn I saw some washers with tapering
holes for this purpose, or is that overkill?)

BugBear


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## Racers (12 Jan 2015)

Its probably overkill all I did was a slight taper in the holes and a few taps.
I did manage to slightly split the small knife scale, which is why I don't recommend riveting them.
Epoxy is your friend  

Pete


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## bugbear (12 Jan 2015)

Just to pre-empt the inevitable. request for pictures:







Blade length is 7 3/4", total weight is a delightful 120g.

Well worth the 50p I paid.  

BugBear


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## aarongough (12 Jan 2015)

Looks nice! Definitely worth the price!

Bit of autosol to clean up the rust and I'm sure it will serve you for years!


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## Racers (12 Jan 2015)

bugbear":2p4hj93i said:


> Just to pre-empt the inevitable. request for pictures:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice

But I did ask 3 posts ago ;-)

Pete


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