# Axy AWFS 18



## Chippygeoff (12 Oct 2011)

Hi everyone.

It's me again. Once again I would like to thank everyone who took the time to reply to my post "Blades" it was all good stuff and I took everything on board. As we all know it is false economy to buy cheap, especially on tools and we are always told to go for the best we can afford. I have been re-thinking about my choice of scroll saw. I was going to buy the SIP one but like most saws in this price range they are flawed with problems. I looked at the Hegner site and nearly fell through the floor when I saw the prices. I have looked at the reviews for the Axy FWFS 18 which we all know is a Hegner clone and they are all good so I have decided to go for one.

I understand other members have bought this machine and it would be nice to hear of any problems i should be aware of. I also understand that Hegner parts will fit the Axy machine and I am interested in the quick release blade device that can be bought from Hegner. On the Hegner web site there are five or six scroll saws so is there a particular model I should quote when ordering this.

I'm also thinking of buying the scroll saw stand from Axy, would it be beneficial to make a sub-table from say 3/4 MDF or something els. Thanks again everyone for your help and advice.

Geoff


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## TRUSTINGGIBBSIE (12 Oct 2011)

I have a Hegner look-alike (as they call them here) but I'm in Australia, so they are probably under a different name to there. Mine is called a Trupro and there are other names as well. Problems? Well, to be honest I haven't had any at all and I have had it now for about 4 years! I have had several saws over the years and I have to say that I have never used a smoother saw. I would class myself as a heavy user and in the 4 years I have only had to replace the bearings on the connector arm, which I bought from the local hardware/auto shop. If it as good as the one I have you will be extremely happy with it. I have cut some jobs that, to be frank, I don't think I could have done on a cheaper saw. I use the Hegner manual (the one that came with the saw was useless) and if you like I can email a copy to you. To be truthful I think the saw has to be made by Hegner, or at least they have an interest in it, because it is too similar to the Hegner for them to get away with, surely. 

The quick release system from Hegner is basically a must, as are the clamps. The QR system is terrific - it takes me longer to thread the blade through the new hole than it does to re-fasten and tension the blade. I have my saw sitting on the bench, so I can't comment on the stand. 

Another good thing about the saw is that it has 2 stroke lengths. The short stroke is great for fine work and the longer stroke is good for the thicker timber. On the short stroke it is VERY smooth, hardly any vibration at all. (Not that the long stroke is rough).

I personally know 4 scrollers that have the Trupro and none of them would trade it for any other saw (barring perhaps the real Hegner! lol.)

Hope this is of some help.

Noel


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## TRUSTINGGIBBSIE (12 Oct 2011)

After all that waffling on about my saw I thought I'd better make sure we are talking about the same type of saw. lol. This is a link to the makers of my saw - is it the same type as yours?

http://www.trupro.com.tw/product.php?mo ... 57&pid=506

Noel


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## Chippygeoff (12 Oct 2011)

Hi Noel.

Many thanks for coming back to me. Yes, it is one and the same saw, the only difference with the one here is that it is white but otherwise identical. There is only one supplier of this saw here in the UK and that is Axminster power tools and they have made the manual for this available online and I feel it is very good. It is nice to know it has two stroke lengths and that will come in very useful. Since I posted the question I had gone back over previous comments on the site and found that Mike in America who supplies Flying Dutchmen blades does a quick release clamp for Hegners so I will send him an e-mail to see if it will fit this Hegner clone. Like you I don't know how this machine can be produced as it is identical to a Hegner although I have heard in the grapevine that some parts are not as good a quality as the original Hegner but for the price I am well happy as the original Hegner is twice the price. Thanks again Noel.


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## Blister (12 Oct 2011)

Geoff

Have you seen these ?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... nkw=awfs18

:wink:


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## Chippygeoff (12 Oct 2011)

Thanks Blister. I just had a look and will be keeping my eye on that one. Most things I see on E-bay are hundreds of miles away but this one is in Somerset, about a 2 hour drive and well worth driving down for.


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## DaveyP (12 Oct 2011)

Second hand Hegner or AWFS 18

The AWFS-18 *was* on my 'one to buy' list, but to my mind the AWFS has an issue, and that is that the table has no blade slot.

Axminster seemed to have continued to use the exact same poor blade clamping system as the original and then making it even more faff by forcing the user to have to remove / replace the blade with bottom clamp along with the table insert.

If using table overlays or a zero clearance insert then this already bad enough issue gets even worse

Why on earth some one would copy a design along with its blade clamping flaws and then add more problems than the original is beyond my little brain, but then maybe that's why its cheap.. they realised the issue and priced them low to get rid of them 

A second hand Hegner (spares available in the uk) then upgrade the clamps would seem to be the better option.

But don't let me put you off.. lol


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## Gill (12 Oct 2011)

Davey, Am I right to assume that the AWFS18 uses the same blade clamping system as Hegner and has a table which to all intents and purposes is identical? If so, I've used Hegners for many years and have never found the issues you mention to be problematic. Of course, the upper blade holder should be replaced with a Quick Release clamp, which I understand also works with the AWFS18. When you remove the blade, you simply release it from the top clamp and slide it out through the bottom. A quick twist of the clockwork key while the bottom clamp is held in place at the side of the table and the blade is completely removed. It takes hardly any time at all; I've seen much worse blade clamping systems.

I'm not sure what you mean by saying the table doesn't have a blade slot. If it didn't have a blade slot, it wouldn't work! The insert which the blade passes through is removable and it is very easy to duplicate, thus making the creation of small but secure zero clearance inserts which do not reduce the stroke depth a matter of simplicity. In fact, it is possible to buy such inserts from Hegner although any self-respecting woodworker should be able to make their own. Most people, however, would not need them, especially if they are using large blades to cut 3/4" stock which I seem to recall is what the OP wishes to do.

As a matter of interest, which scroll saw do you use?


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## DaveyP (12 Oct 2011)

Hi Gill

At the moment I'm using a deco 405 that's being replaced in a couple of weeks



> has a table which to all intents and purposes is identical?



No.. and thats the point. 

If you download the manual and compare tables you will see how more fiddly it has become and added remove insert, replace insert into the procedure.

It should of been an improvement on an old idea not a step backwards.

I borrowed a Hegner for a couple of weeks and apart from the clamps which are easily upgraded it was a joy to use, even though I moved the bottom clamp out of the holder then towards me, rather than your suggestion of down... putting the blade back into the AWFS is going to be more fiddly. 



> I'm not sure what you mean by saying the table doesn't have a blade slot.



The long slot that goes from the front of the table to the blade.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/downloads/100104_manual.pdf


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## Gill (12 Oct 2011)

Thank you for the link, Davey. To be honest, I can't see that much difference between the AWFS18's blade holding system and my Hegners'. The clamps themselves do look rather fiddly and I think that if I owned an AWFS18 I would replace the lower blade clamp with one from Hegner and buy a clockwork key instead of using an allen key; it would speed up blade changes quite dramatically, even if it isn't the ideal arrangement.

It's strange how we take some of our saw's features for granted. It was only when I physically inspected my Hegners that I realised you are right about the slot in the table and I agree with you, it can be helpful. Nevertheless, my Diamonds and DeWalt 788 don't have such a slot and they're still pretty good saws. That said, their blade holding systems are different from the Hegner/AWFS18 system. It would be nice if someone could make a cam lock clamp to hold blades - I might mention the idea over at t'other place and see if anyone with an engineering background can suggest how to go about this.

On balance, I wouldn't let the design issues you have identified inhibit me from buying an AWFS18. It's good value for money compared to other new saws, although the price has shot up over the last couple of years. However, there are bargains to be had at online auctions; a second-hand Hegner would be much cheaper and even if components needed replacing they are readily available from the manufacturer.

What saw will replace your Deco 405?


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## gofer (12 Oct 2011)

Hi
I brought a awfs18 last week and it does havea slot in the insert, i found it easy to change blades but i will get a quick release blade holder when i find out where from
( any idea  s?). So far i am very pleased with it.


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## Chippygeoff (12 Oct 2011)

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. It is looking good. Gofer. I sent an e-mail to Mike, the guy in America who sells the flying Dutchmen blades and he does the quick release clamp. You will have to tell him what the sizes of the present clamp are. I have not got mine yet so i cant tell him. His e-mail is [email protected]. hope this helps with your query.

Geoff.


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## gofer (12 Oct 2011)

Geoff
Have sent Mike a photo of clamp and asked if can supply quick release replacment.I will let you no out come.
Compo


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## Gill (12 Oct 2011)

gofer":26qkc4l4 said:


> ...i will get a quick release blade holder when i find out where from
> ( any idea  s?)...



A variety of accessories are available from Hegner UK. I wish the website had a photograph of the Quick Clamp so that you could be sure what you are buying  .


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## Chippygeoff (12 Oct 2011)

Thanks Compo. I shall look forward to hearing how you get on. Thanks Gill, your help earlier was invaluable. Yes. I have looked at the Hegner site a couple of times and like you did not see a picture of the quick release clamp. At the end of the day it must save a lot of time on pierced work. This was all so new to me a week ago and now I have really got the bug and longing to get my hands on the scroll saw.

Out of interest. I shall be cutting some simple designs to begin with and I am ordering some 3mm thick hardwoods I have seen on the Hobbies site. I have noticed in a few post on here where members have shown the toils of their labours how smooth the edges are and they seem to have a uniform curve to the edge on a lot of pieces. I was wondering how this was achieved. I have a very long way to go before I submit any photos of work done but I feel I will be pestering the more experienced members as I go along. Thanks again everyone.


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## DaveyP (12 Oct 2011)

Gill":1gnc36ti said:


> It's good value for money



Yes I do agree its good value indeed... all I was moaning about was if its a clone then why miss the table slot out, its a good feature, sure its not essential but a good feature that got left out that makes a pre owned Hegner attractive 



> What saw will replace your Deco 405?



The top machines are very limited

So either it will be a pre owned later model Hegner or a new EX-16 (stocks are in transit to the UK)

Here is the picture of the quick clamp.


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## gofer (13 Oct 2011)

This message contains blocked images.
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Message Body
Hi Barry,

Geoff
Below is a copy of email from mike, not sure what he means, but think i will have to look eleswhere for clamps.
Compo

I am sorry but do not sell Hegner clamps.

I sell only the quick clamp for the Hegner saw as seen on my web site.

Mike


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## gofer (13 Oct 2011)

Geoff
Just seen the photo of the quick release clamp, should be quite easy to convert old clamps


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## Chippygeoff (13 Oct 2011)

Hi Davey. Yes, I agree, there are probably a few things on the Hegner clone that could be improved upon but as Gofer said, the insert does come with a slot now. I have heard some reports say that the table is not completely flat so I will run a steel rule over mine when it comes.

Gill. I does appear that Axminster with their vast resources could make the various improvements to this Hegner clone, even if it meant putting the price up another £20. I am eagerly watching two saws on e-bay, one is a lovely Delta in excellent nick and the guy selling it is just 15 minutes down the road from me. There is also a Hegner that looks hardly used and that is in Somerset, about a two hour drive from my part of Wales. If I end up with the clone it will still do everything I want to do and probably do it well. At the end of the day Gill what else is available apart from Hegners and when I saw the prices they want on their web site I nearly fainted. The DeWalt is a lovely machine. I owned one some years ago and it was at the time when Black and Decker bought out DeWalt and a lot of DeWalt machines ended up with Black and Decker motors in them. The motor used in the machine was not configured properly to British power supply and my saw went back to DeWalt three times. The only way round this problem was to use a surge protector as used on computers and it was fine after that. There is a chance I can get this saw back from the guy I bought it from so I will contact him later to see if he still has it. I have entered a competition on an American site and the prize is a DeWalt scroll saw.

Gofer. Many thanks for trying with the clamp. I realise now what Mike was on about and I think it is the thread that holds the bolt on the clamp. As far as I can see the only way to try this is to buy one and hope for the best. I think a better solution is the buy the quick release clamp from Hegner as the picture shows it comes complete with a blade holder and it looks perfect and bound to fit but at the end of the day the outlay for this is very little. I have visions of ringing Hegner and ordering a clamp and then they ask me for what model and I will say it is the Hegner clone from Axy, not sure what response I would get. 

Many thanks to everyone.

Geoff


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## DaveyP (13 Oct 2011)

Hi Geoff



> not sure what response I would get.



LOL

Just order it on line then, HM0450 is the part number from http://www.hegner.co.uk/catalog/search. ... ords=clamp


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## Gill (13 Oct 2011)

I consulted the gurus at t'other place as promised and they all seem to think the Hegner system is good enough for them so they're not terribly interested in the idea of developing new blade clamps. Pity.

As far as I was aware, the DeWalt 788 is no longer retailed in this country and in the US it has been re-badged as a Delta. If you say they are being sold again in the US under the DeWalt label then it would appear my info is out of date. If I was looking to buy a high quality saw now in the UK, I would certainly be considering the Excaliburs from APTC. I've never used one but the 'Murricans seem to rate them highly and price-wise they are very competitive with Hegners. That said, if you're patient there are lots of bargains to be had at online auctions. A couple of years ago I bought a little-used Hegner Multicut Quick with stand for £200. Currently, the saw with the stand retails for £1,176.


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## Chippygeoff (14 Oct 2011)

Hi Gill.

It is a shame that Axy will not refine their Hegner clone to bring it in line with the real thing but even so, for many it is still a bargain. Yes, the DeWalt is available across the pond. I was a bit curious so I had a look at some of the American sites and on average the DeWalt can be had for $468 (£297) but the carriage is a bit steep at $162 (£102) and then I expect I would have to pay VAT on top of that which is another £60 so I would be looking at almost £460 for the 788. There is no getting away from it though, it is a very fine scroll saw and many would say the best in the world.

Here in the UK we do not have much in the way of very good scroll saws, as you say Gill, there are the Hegner's and then there are the two Excalibur models which are probably as good as a Hegner but for around £500 a lot cheaper than the Hegner. I personally think the Hegner's are vastly over priced although again a very fine machine with many followers but I cannot see people paying over £1000 for one so it is a matter of looking at the auction sites. I think at the end of the day it all depends on what a person wants from a machine, if they are only an occaisional user then the cheaper saws will probably meet their needs whereas the professional user may well want a top end machine for reliability, ease of use etc. It's horses for courses and at the end of the day you get what you pay for. I have a friend coming back to me today about the DeWalt 788 he has and I may get it for around £100. Although a bargain I don't know how I would go on if it broke down and I needed a part, no doubt I would have to look to America for the solution.


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## hawkinob (14 Oct 2011)

Hi,
I have a Hegner lookalike - WMS mine is but it seems all the different names, and there are about three here in Oz, refer to the same machine - made in Taiwan.
Had mine for just over four years, and whilst I don't pretend to be a scrollsaw expert, I would recommend the machine.
A couple of points:-
The steel pin that the 'tensioning lever' turns on. Mine had no clips at either end inorder to stop it falling out, I used to remember to push it back into place until, one day, I forgot. Lost it. Replaced it with a small split pin - cut to length - no problems now.
The Hegner manual seems to offer a little extra detail, i.e. mentions adjusting for a shorter stroke (if needed). A copy can be found here :-
http://www.advmachinery.com/t-manuals.aspx
The quick change blade from Mike is not the sme as the Hegner one - Sorry but I guess is already mentioned! The Hegner one is quite expensive but I reckon is very well engineered (Mike's one is meant for a different purpose (it is handy for folks - like me - with ancient wrists) - I have both and use Mike's, to replace the knurled knob, if I find the Hegner knurled knob a bit difficult. However Mike's I've found does bend the top of a blade.) It is possible to use an Allen key in the side of the Hegner quick clamp but that sort of defeats the object!
My two bob's worth.
Bob H.
p.s. The invoice for my machine - WMS - states :- "It is a copy of the Hegner MultiCut2S"


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## chrispuzzle (15 Oct 2011)

hawkinob":xn9cthm6 said:


> The steel pin that the 'tensioning lever' turns on. Mine had no clips at either end inorder to stop it falling out, I used to remember to push it back into place until, one day, I forgot. Lost it. Replaced it with a small split pin - cut to length - no problems now.



I had the same issue with the pin but have avoided losing it! It's an easily replaceable thing as you say.

I don't know how it compares with a Hegner but I think the calibration on the table tilt is crude. If you wanted to do compound cutting then it would probably be a good idea to make up your own calibrated scale to be sure you were accurate. Again, a trivial job.

Otherwise I love my saw, it has cut dozens of jigsaw puzzles for me, I don't worry much about blade changes because I don't do work requiring many inside cuts. Quiet, plenty of power, very reliable.


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## Edwin (16 Oct 2011)

I've been looking at this forum for the past week because I've become interested in buying a scroll saw. The AWFS gets high praise here and everywhere I've looked. Yesterday morning an unused one appeared on eBay, I made a successful offer, and collected it in the afternoon. It has never been out of the box it was delivered in. However, I'm totally new to this and I ould like a few bits of advice. First, a dumb question. What's the best way of lifting this machine, given that it weighs 29 Kg? Obviously it would be disastrous to lift it by the top reciprocating arm, but what about the table? Second, the stand sold by Axminster and referred to in the saw manual was part of the deal. It looks to me to be too rickety and spindly to withstand the vibration that so many of your members refer to as a problem with their scroll saws. Does anybody use one, and is it OK? Third, can anyone point me to a good book that explores what a scroll saw is capable of?

I have used a lot of tools, but never a scroll saw. My immediate task is to make a small inlay of sycamore and mahogany to insert into the lower end of a guitar I'm making. The final question is, if I laid one wood on top of the other and sawed through both to cut out a shape, using the thinnest blade, would the pieces cut out be interchangeable (i.e. the mahogany cutout could go into the hole in the sycamore) and form a tolerably close joint?

I apologise for going on at such length in this first post, but I'm not likely to have much more to say for a long time.


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## DaveyP (16 Oct 2011)

Hi Edwin

Best way of lifting is from underneath with bent knees and a straight back .. lol

The stand is a bit naff but does work, however and a far better one can be constructed from 4x2

Have a look at this web page for pictures and words for the method of inlay

http://oudluthier.blogspot.com/2008/06/ ... inlay.html


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## Edwin (16 Oct 2011)

Thanks DaveyP. The luthier web page seems to have the ideal solution. I'll try it out and give the stand a whirl at the same time!


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## DaveyP (17 Oct 2011)

Your very welcome Edwin

But as with all skills /arts ..getting it 100% right only comes after lots of swearing and in our case lots of sawdust 

I've seen some good examples of filled cutouts, with bronze / brass / silver and so on that look very good and are a darn sight easier to achieve... however, inlay / faux marquettery is best.


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## chrispuzzle (17 Oct 2011)

I have the stand. It is clearly not made for the machine since you have to be a bit imaginative about the placement of the bolts, and was probably designed for the lighter saws Axminster sell. Nevertheless it does the job. My machine has very little vibration.


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## Edwin (26 Oct 2011)

The question I have probably applies to any scroll saw. I want to cut a piece out of the middle of another, keeping both pieces and losing only the sawcut - say a 1" circle out of a 4" square. So I draw the circle and drill a hole somewhere on its circumference just big enough to allow the blade through. My saw, and probably others, has two correctly spaced recesses for holding the blade clamps while the blade is being fixed, but they don't allow for the possibility that the blade may have a 4" square piece of wood around it. The only solution I can think of is either (a) to mount the blade into one of the clamps before it goes through the wood and then to attach the other clamp when it's on the machine, or (b) to devise a holder independent of the machine that gives the right spacing and can accommodate any wood around the blade. How do other people deal with this?


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## gofer (26 Oct 2011)

Edwin
You fix the blade in the bottom holder, then place holder and blade in machine , thread blade through wood and fasten blade to top hloder. it works for me


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## Edwin (26 Oct 2011)

Thanks Gofer. That's more or less what I've concluded, but I'm new to this and nervous of tightening the clamps while they're in position. When I took the blade out for the first time the clamp screws were so tight I thought the Allen key could break, and that replacing them equally tightly while in position on the machine might do some damage. Maybe they were far too tight in the first place. But also, the Allen key is fiddly and I gather from other parts of the forum that it's a good idea to change to a system that doesn't need tools and is much quicker. If the grub screws were replaced with thumb screws, these would be heavier and they would be right out at the end of the arms, so I wonder if they would lead to increased vibration. I've already decided to replace the two grub screws on the blade guard and the one on the anti-kickback holder, all of which need Allen keys.

Incidentally, I've recently spent a great deal of time without success on the internet looking for a worklight with a magnetic base and a flexible neck. I'd given up, then found one by accident in a local shop (The Toolpost) and it's brilliant. It's in the Charnwood catalogue (see their web site) and costs £28. It has a turn on/off magnet and a bright, bluish light from 28 LEDs.


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## gofer (26 Oct 2011)

Edwin
I do not think replacing g screws with thump screws will make any difference to the vibration, I have removed blade guard and anti-kick holder as i found they got in the way but thats a personal choice to make.
The more you do the more confident you will come


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## Edwin (26 Oct 2011)

Thanks again. It's great to be able to "talk" to people with practical experience. I've already found the blade guard a nuisance because the plastic distorts the view, so I'll take it off. (I hope the H&E people don't read this.) At present I'm mainly drawing curved lines on thin ply and trying to follow them. The main discovery is how tight the curves can be.


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## hawkinob (27 Oct 2011)

Hi,
Try this site for a few lessons and instructions on scrollsawing, better, or at least as good as, a book. I believe you can also ask questions (via email of course). Some of the lessons contain video demonstration.

http://lumberjocks.com/scrollgirl/blog/24198

Hope it helps.
Bob H.


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## Edwin (27 Oct 2011)

Hello Bob,

Thanks for the web site reference. It looks very useful and I've got it tabbed for easy reference. I've also got a book (Scroll Saw Workshop) that takes a similar approach. I've already got much better at keeping the blade on track; at first I was scared of changing direction too quickly with such a delicate blade, and I've had to force myself to get used to the idea that that's the whole point of a scroll saw.

Next i'm going to make a more substantial stand. Also, I would like to make the blade changing a far more slick operation, but I'm not too clear from comments on the forum exactly which Hegner parts would be needed.


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## DaveyP (27 Oct 2011)

Hi Edwin

This part is what you need..

HM0450	Quick Clamp for Piercework

http://www.hegner.co.uk/catalog/search. ... rds=HM0450

Then for stage 2 ... which makes a great clamp even greaterer you want a good knob from Mike
(well its a quick lever lever that is adjustable for its parked position ... but that didn't sound quite as good as knob)

http://www.mikesworkshop.com/newprod.htm

Next week I'll be showing and telling Stage 3 and 4 which should at the very least put the Axxy into pole position, but for this ultimate tune up a bit of fettling will be required.


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## chrispuzzle (27 Oct 2011)

You're not going to fettle the knob???!


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## DaveyP (27 Oct 2011)

No Chris.... Mikes knob works well and needs no improvement


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## Edwin (29 Oct 2011)

Hi DaveyP

I've checked the references. So the only modification is that the top clamp locking screw is replaced with one that can be adjusted by hand. I had the impression that more was needed. I'll follow it up because the Allen key system is a curse, but maybe I should wait for Stages 3 and 4 and see what the "fettling" involves before I make a move.


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## DaveyP (29 Oct 2011)

Hi Edwin...

Go ahead with getting one you will be delighted with it ... stage 3 involved getting another one to use as the bottom holder, (you have to swap the turn and the screw to the opposite sides cos your using it up side down.)..

So if funds will stretch to it get 2, as it will mean an end to having to use any of the stupid old style clamps .. even if you don't go further with the stages you will be happy.

Stage 2. 'Mikes knob' is icing on the cake and is not totally necessary (unless you have arthritis in your fingers / hand or want to make releasing / clamping even faster, or just to look cool when doing videos.. lol)

Stage 3. Will be replacing the bottom blade clamp and also a holder for a different method of holding it
( the fettling required... is removing 6mm from the post of a new aluminium part, this then allows the standard 
top clamp rigid with bottom floppy or / top floppy and bottom rigid or maybe both top and bottom not floppy or rigid)

Stage 4. Fettling to gain better advantage of stage 3

Stage 5. Fettling to gain full advantage of stage 4


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