# Bristol Design



## n0legs (24 Jul 2015)

Well I've read a few posts by Andy T mentioning Bristol Design.
So I said to the good lady "Do you know where this place is, with you being a local and all that?"
A positive reply was received.
"Do you think we can pop in when we see Mum on the weekend?" says I
Again a positive reply was given.
So far so good  

Well this member is pleased to report it is well worth a visit =D> 
Take money, maybe lots and lots.
Have plenty of time, it's not a big place but it is rammed with goodies left, right and centre.
Lovely people for a chat with and to deal with.

This place gets a "Two thumbs fresh rating" :lol: 

Thanks to Andy T for the heads up =D>


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2015)

Exactly so, I am so glad you made it and liked it!

As a happy customer for over 30 years I do feel very privileged to have what is now such a rare sort of shop so conveniently nearby.

In case any new readers are wondering what this is all about, here are a couple of recent shots from the window on a sunnier day than today:












And n0Legs, I find it hard to believe that you made a special journey, stayed a long time and went home empty handed... :lol:


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Jul 2015)

They've been around long enough to really know their stuff; I was buying tools from them by mail order back in the late 1980s. They used to send by mail an illustrated list of their better stock every few months, on a first reservation gets it basis. I occasionally rang up to reserve something, found it was already taken, and was offered an alternative at a lower price. The alternative was always perfectly acceptable, too - no fobbing off with rubbish.

I think BD were the first firm to offer 'better quality' new chisels, using a grade of steel very similar to the old Cast Steel. Not sure they entirely 'got it right' with all the details, but it was a brave move to do something better than the general offerings at the time. I bought some bevelled-edge chisels and used them for years. They took a super edge, but I think the latest Ashley Iles pip them for fineness of lands and general finish. If I remember right, there was some concern expressed in the magazines at the time that some examples took quite a bit of work to get the flat face as flat as some liked it. Mine were not brilliant in that respect - one aspect in which Ashley Iles did do a lot better. I didn't try the BD carving chisels, so can't comment, but if they used the same steel, edge-taking would be very good.

I've never visited the shop (though it would be a good excuse for a trip to Bristol sometime) but I do heartily recommend the business from my other dealings with it. They've never sold me a dud.


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2015)

They have only a very few of their own brand chisels left. You can just see a row of pale handles on the shelf on the left side of my first photo.
I have one, which is excellent steel, though in a European style hornbeam handle which might not suit everyone.
They did gear up to produce and stock their own range of carving tools, across the whole range of sweeps and sizes, and still have most options in stock. I doubt if they would try to re-stock either of those ranges, as the effort was probably out of proportion to the reward, though as far as I can tell, the tools themselves were very good.

This is an older shot of the carving tools:


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## Benchwayze (24 Jul 2015)

Had me a cracking Woden Dowelling jig from there. I'd ruined my own, by trying to metricate it. I should have known better. I've never been good at metalwork! :mrgreen: 

I must try and find my way there one day soon.


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## custard (24 Jul 2015)

I've got a few Bristol Design paring chisels that I'd be happy to sell at a bargain price of £10 each. If you're interested PM me. In fairness to any prospective buyer they do have a belly to the back (apparently a function of the Bristol Design heat treatment and grinding processes) so you're in for a long slog fettling if you really want to get them singing!


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## Sheffield Tony (24 Jul 2015)

It is frustrating that they don't have much of a website. My sister passes by quite often, and has asked if there is anything I'd like for my birthday from there, but not knowing what they have makes it difficult.

Still, rumour has it that the Bodger's Ball 2016 will be at Tyntesfield, so not too far go to visit Bristol Designs (or sister !).


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## Argus (24 Jul 2015)

I used to live in Cotham forty odd years ago - not sure if B D were there then.... I think that they might have been.

I seem to recall that some of their chisels were made in Germany by an outfit called Schwarchter (or some thing similar), though they were stamped 'Bristol Design' and I bought a few back in the 80s.

It was essential to go there in person and select your own with a straight edge for the reasons outlines above, but it was possible to find ones with a flat back. I'm still using them and they are an excellent piece of steel. Plus there was a generally good stock of second hand stuff.

.


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2015)

According to an article in the Woodworker in April 1986 they started "five years ago" initially as a woodworking company, with the tool sales outgrowing that side of things quite quickly. I think I probably bought my first old wooden plane from them in about 1983.


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## Argus (24 Jul 2015)

AndyT":1ty7y4j3 said:


> According to an article in the Woodworker in April 1986 they started "five years ago" .



That's about right.... I would have bought mine in the mid 80s, probably about 84 or 85, even though I'd moved away by then, which was when I got my workshop organised instead of working out of a box with a workmate..

I recall that there used to be a couple of decent pubs thereabouts too; the Ship was across the road near the Red House and I think there was boozer called the Seahorse near the BRI.


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## Cheshirechappie (24 Jul 2015)

Argus":25xqwzfl said:


> I used to live in Cotham forty odd years ago - not sure if B D were there then.... I think that they might have been.
> 
> I seem to recall that some of their chisels were made in Germany by an outfit called Schwarchter (or some thing similar), though they were stamped 'Bristol Design' and I bought a few back in the 80s.



Not quite correct - they sourced the steel from Germany (nearest they could find to straight unalloyed carbon steel), but the forging and grinding were done in France. I can't confirm this, but I suspect the forge was the Forge de Saint Jeury, of Auriou rasp fame. The first trade name they chose was 'Scharwaechter', but they quite soon dropped this. I have one chisel so stamped, but the other five are stamped 'Bristol Design', or in the case of one tiny chisel, just 'Bristol'. The Scharwaechter came with an unfinished boxwood London pattern handle, the others had lacquered boxwood London pattern, and I think boxwood carver's pattern or unhandled were available as options.

I suspect that the reason for their reputation for out-of-flatness may be the steel choice. One of the downsides of straight carbon steel of about 1% carbon content is that it only really responds to a very fast quench - water or brine. It doesn't harden to a very great depth, either. The result is a thinnish piece of hard steel with a lot of quenching stresses locked into it, which, when you start grinding it, release unevenly to some extent, causing slight distortions. The effect is minimised on even cross-sections such as the traditional 19th century firmer chisel, but become more pronounced in sections such as a bevelled-edged chisel, and it would be even more pronounced on a long piece such as a paring chisel, though less a problem with shaped tools like carving gouges. The stresses can't be relieved, because to do so effectively would require heat treatment well above the acceptable tempering temperature for a wood chisel. 

This problem (and that of slight dimensional changes on hardening) caused 19th century toolmakers, especially those engaged in making engineering gauges, much angst. Consequently, when metallurgical experiments in the late 19th century developed a low-alloy high-carbon steel that responded to slower oil quenching, thus causing much less internal stress in workpieces, it was siezed upon with some enthusiasm. The new steel didn't change dimension on hardening either, and hardened to greater depths. It was therefore much easier (though not totally infallible) to grind to shape without distortions happening. That new steel (with minor improvements) is what we now call O1.

The one advantage of straight carbon steel over O1 is that it is capable of developing a slightly sharper edge. The edge-taking of O1 satisfies most people most of the time, but I can see why Bristol Design tried the straight carbon steel, to get as close to the edges 19th century Cast Steel chisels will take. Had they replicated 19th century chisel shapes, they may have had fewer distortion problems - but that's a 'what if', not what we actually have.

I still think BD were brave and forward thinking to invest so much in their chisel line. If nothing else, it generated a huge amount of interest, and helped to encourage others to make and sell fine quality tools by demonstrating that there is a market for them. We owe Charles Stirling a generous vote of thanks for that.

(Edits for spelling corrections, and to add 'by demonstrating......market for them' to second last line.)


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2015)

Argus":nkv48kkq said:


> I recall that there used to be a couple of decent pubs thereabouts too; the Ship was across the road near the Red House and I think there was boozer called the Seahorse near the BRI.



Dead right. The Ship is still there and is popular with students but the Seahorse was a rare thing, sadly gone and never to reappear. It was a decent pub which was actually owned and run by the hospital! ccasion5: 

It's disappeared into the hospital now where I think it is a staff only snack bar. It's no longer accessible to the public.


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## Argus (24 Jul 2015)

Well, Andy, it all goes to prove that I know more about old Bristol boozers than I do about Bristol Design's steel!

I used to live on Cotham Brow and theCotham Porter Stores was a second home, but for a real bit of slumming, there was The Old England on the other side of Gloucester Road.
In the mid 70s, CAMRA bought an knackered Courage pub in St Werberghs called the Old Fox and it was soon the most ram-packed pub in that part of town.

Happy days.


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## AndyT (24 Jul 2015)

Our paths may have crossed! 
The Old Fox has gone but the Old England is its scruffy old self as far as I know ( it's 20+ years since I went there.)
Cotham Porter Stores has had a bit of a makeover and lost a few layers of tobacco tar from the ceiling. 

Happy Days indeed!


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## No skills (24 Jul 2015)

What a great looking shop  , what a complete waste of a website  

Feel quite sad now.


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## n0legs (24 Jul 2015)

AndyT":35ryxlw1 said:


> Exactly so, I am so glad you made it and liked it!
> 
> 
> And n0Legs, I find it hard to believe that you made a special journey, stayed a long time and went home empty handed... :lol:




Fair play Andy it's such a little gem of a place I will be going back, the good lady makes it across three times a week and I make it over usually once a fortnight. 

Well I didn't leave empty handed is the truth.
I bought a lovely, well it isn't completely lovely yet, Stanley Bailey number 7 I've been after for ages. She's all there, no cracks, good handle and knob, with a decent blade.
I found a Spear and Jackson tenon saw, wood handle with a brass back. Lovely condition, absolutely lovely and still very sharp. This was to replace my Grandfathers that I foolishly and embarrassingly disposed of when we cleared out his workshop   :roll: 
Last but not least I found a rosewood and brass bevel gauge, my original had walked some time ago, and this one is a worthy replacement. I can now hide the cheapo Stanley plastic version that's had to be used for too long.

I was starting to feel the eyes boring into my back after a while. So it was time to leave before things spiraled out of control, keep them sweet is my moto :lol:


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## Benchwayze (25 Jul 2015)

You know you are getting on a bit, when guys like NoLegs tell you they bought used tools the like of which you bought in 1958! :mrgreen: 

Happy days. Enjoy n0legs!


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## Cordy (25 Jul 2015)

Do Bristol Design sell on eB*y ?


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## AndyT (25 Jul 2015)

Cordy":bhwgh7pc said:


> Do Bristol Design sell on eB*y ?



Not as far as I know. 

There are still substantial parts of the world that are not available on line and they are one of them.


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## MIGNAL (25 Jul 2015)

They just about have a website, that just about half works.


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## Benchwayze (25 Jul 2015)

Cordy":28xd2luv said:


> Do Bristol Design sell on eB*y ?



Have you ever seen a horse-fly? No. nor have I! 
I would be surprised if they did Cordy (hammer)


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## jimi43 (29 Jul 2015)

I know that Bristol Design did/do brass mouldings because the Prof has kindly shipped a lever cap to me for my Scottish infill smoother restoration...and a fine bit of brass it was too.

Question...do you recent visitors recall seeing the casting for a Lancashire Pattern shoulder plane like the one on Joe McGlynn's site only I am after making one in the next year or so?

If anyone knows a source of the basic casting then I should be most grateful.

Cheers

Jimi


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## AndyT (29 Jul 2015)

Hi Jim

No, they never did go for broke on the complications of a Lancashire pattern casting, just a choice of panel plane, bullnose, several smoothers, chariot, thumb and mitre!

I don't think they have all those models left, and I've been told that they can't/won't be commissioning any more castings.

These pics are a few years old now; there might be even less choice:


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## jimi43 (29 Jul 2015)

Darn...I thought as much.

Ok..looks like plan B then...angle piece of bronze milled. 

I will probably work out cleaner that way anyway.

Thanks for the response mate..I have to say that coffin smoother looks well cast indeed!

J


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