# Staircase (WIP) starting to install



## JonnyD (15 Oct 2009)

I have just started a staircase and hopefully it will look a bit like this when its finished







There is going to be a first step quarter landing then a cut string run and then a winder to the top. The architect has cocked up and there is a need for a full height newel to support the floor above to get the required head room. The stairs are going to be painted white and the strings are to be made from southern yellow pine and the treads from 25mm MRMDF and the risers 15mm MRMDF. The Newels and handrail are solid oak and are to be finished with hardwax oil to contrast with the painted staircase. 

Strings are cut with a router and jig with a dovetail cutter to give a slight undercut and a tight joint when it is wedged up.

I use a small mdf piece in the jig so that you get a nice neat cut and dont cut to far into the string which is possible with my jig

Riser cut






Tread cut






To do the winder treads the jig needs moving along






Wall side Housed string cut out






The cut string is cut out to the shape of the string using a router and bearing guided cutter. The riser parts are then undercut with a mitre cutter in the router. I use a scribe out of a profile and scribe set.






The back part is then removed so that the riser will fit and join up with the mitre on the string.






A few stages are missing but the stairs are assembled and then the newels test fitted. The stairs are held up on props and clamps and set perfectly level.
















Just got the winders to fit at the top and the handrail and spindles to fit.

will keep you posted

Cheers

Jon


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## mtr1 (15 Oct 2009)

Looking good! never made a winder before, always look quite challenging.


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## OPJ (15 Oct 2009)

Looking good and certainly not something you could achieve in a small workshop. After this job, will you reconsider adding that floor above?  :wink:


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## crazylilting (16 Oct 2009)

Looks great!!

One of the projects on my list of things to do for our place this winter. We don't want a handrail though. Got some 2 inch Scottish pine just waiting for the thicknesser.


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## MikeG. (16 Oct 2009)

This is an odd one!

Normally with cut strings the risers and goings oversail the string, with a moulding underneath. Presumably here the cut string will be stained or just sealed, but the MDF risers and goings will be carpeted? 

Seems odd to me that an architect would want to have the edge of a piece of carpet meeting the string without anything to demarcate the junction......and, the carpet layer is going to have to cut around each spindle. He'll be cursing!!

Still, you just make what the client wants............odd design isn't your fault!!

Mike


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## JonnyD (16 Oct 2009)

The strings and risers and treads are all going to be painted white. The carpet is going to be a runner down the middle of the stairs so no cutting around the spindles. The customers wanted a plain look so there is not going to be any moulding around the treads or fancy brackets. The tread overhangs the string by 25mm.

An architect cant be blamed for the design as i had to do it  

cheers

Jon


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## MikeG. (16 Oct 2009)

Oh I see...well that makes sense then! I hadn't thought of paint......

Mike


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## JonnyD (16 Oct 2009)

Done a bit more today. The winders always take longer than you think they will a few templates and a couple of attempts at the middle one had them fitted.











Had just about enough time to make some handrail up 65X52mm section






cheers

Jon


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## Mr Ed (16 Oct 2009)

Its a bit of luck that you had those steels installed just before you take on a staircase job...

Looking good

Ed


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## JonnyD (16 Oct 2009)

Yeah the steels have been quite usefull just got to find the time to board them out.

The steel was put in last week and should give an extra area of 30X20ft and a 10X13ft piece at the front.






Cheers

Jon


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## Doug B (17 Oct 2009)

That extra room above will be a massive bonus Jonny, it will also make it warmer "downstairs" as the winter draws in. You want to move your bench under there  

Those stairs are looking good, will you be fitting them? if so can we have pictures of them installed?


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## chippy1970 (17 Oct 2009)

Mike Garnham":2j1tz7o6 said:


> This is an odd one!
> 
> Normally with cut strings the risers and goings oversail the string, with a moulding underneath. Presumably here the cut string will be stained or just sealed, but the MDF risers and goings will be carpeted?
> 
> ...



Doesnt look odd to me I have seen and worked on loads of similar staircases as Jonnyd says its all painted white and you have a runner carpet so it doesnt go anywhere near the spindles.


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## JonnyD (21 Oct 2009)

Doug B":mrb9gyrt said:


> That extra room above will be a massive bonus Jonny, it will also make it warmer "downstairs" as the winter draws in. You want to move your bench under there
> 
> Those stairs are looking good, will you be fitting them? if so can we have pictures of them installed?



The idea is to have a finishing room underneath the mezzanine. This will be insulated and heated hopefully by a new woodburner with a back boiler so i can have some rads throughout the workshop.

I will be fitting the stairs and taking some pics. I doubt anyone else would be able to figure out how they go together  

Cheers

Jon


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## JonnyD (21 Oct 2009)

Heres an update on the staircase.

The handrail has been fitted. I prefer to use a large dowel screw in the newel post and bolt the handrails on. The top dowel screw is angled into the newel post at the same angle as the handrail and the bottom one goes in perpendicular so it slides into the end of the handrail as the newel post is assembled.






Bottom joint






Top Joint






Pulls up nice and tight and is rock solid






The stairs have been taken apart and are being spray primed.

The newels have been stop chamfered and sanded up ready for installing.











The newel that supports the winders has quite a few cutouts






I am going to finish priming everything tommorow ready for installation on Monday.

Cheers

Jon


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## crazylilting (21 Oct 2009)

Now that's some serious oak!!!

Looking very good by the way, i've been following with interest, can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Mr Ed (21 Oct 2009)

Looking forward to seeing the installed job Jonny

Ed


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## JonnyD (22 Oct 2009)

Just a quick update. Been spray priming the staircase today and has turned out pretty well.


















Thanks for looking and the comments

Cheers

Jon


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## Paul Chapman (22 Oct 2009)

Great thread, Jon, and impressive work 8) 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## JonnyD (26 Oct 2009)

I have started fitting the staircase today didnt get there until 11-00 as we had to wait for a timber delivery so didnt get as much done as i had hoped. The stairs are going into an old farmhouse which is being done up. The area is quite dark with not much natural light so that was the main reason to go with a painted finish with the hardwood newels and handrails.

Started of by putting the staircase roughly level in the stairwell.






Holes were drilled so that the newel could be drawbored onto the string






Newel post fitted






The first 2 winders were fitted with the stairs level but to get the winder string and the rest of the treads installed the stairs had to be leaned forward so that they cleared the trimmer joist. The rest of the stairs could then be assembled from above. 

leaning forward






Winders finished






Left everything clamped up so glue could go off overnight.






Cheers

Jon


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## JonnyD (28 Oct 2009)

This will be the last update for a while. The staircase is finished apart from the spindles and the landing gallery but it has been decided that these will be done after the plastering has been completed. 

Main view of the stairs






Bottom of large newel and angled first tread






Top winders






The Top newel supporting the winders










Top Handrail Joint






Bottom Handrail showing some quite nice quartered figuring in the oak. The oak has been treated with osmo polyx oil






Thanks for looking and the comments

Cheers

Jon


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## crazylilting (29 Oct 2009)

Looks very nice thanks for sharing!!

I have a question though about the top winder detail though. On the landing stair at the left there is a point sicking out, why?

I see this on a lot of stairs in the UK but can't see the point to it at all. If the wall plate was finished under the top tread you could wrap the skirting board around the corner and return it downwards to finish it off and it will look much better then any finishing i've seen thus far. 

Is there some hidden purpose to the point?


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## JonnyD (30 Oct 2009)

Theres no point to the point. It was just left like that as there is a gap between the stairs and the wall where a joist goes through so i wasnt sure of the detailing. it will probably get cut back when second fixed.

I would usually say thanks for the comments but you lot dont seem to be interested in stairs  

cheers

Jon


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## crazylilting (30 Oct 2009)

Well i like them. You've done a great job. Different then i'm used to. I've done a few spiral stair cases in my day, but they are done differently then they are done here, the structure is already there and it is more or less a cladding.

On your comment about the point. Wouldn't it make more sense to not have the point but machine it under the top stair tread and leave the last stair tread off and cut it to fit the opening? As i've only fit one like they make here in the UK i'm not an expert, but inquiry minds want to know.


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## MikeG. (30 Oct 2009)

Looks good Jon.

CL, that "point" is often left on, but shaped, as a place to stop the skirting board. It is dealt with at "second fix". If it isn't there, then architecturally the skirting may have to follow the string all the way down the stair, which can look terrible. Equally bad is for a skirting to just stop somewhere near the top of the stair, with seemingly no good reason.

Personally, I try and leave the fitting of the staircase a little later than is being done here. Firstly, to protect a nice piece of joinery from site traffic, and secondly, it is easier for plasterers if they can plaster the whole stairwell without the stair in the way. This doesn't always work, though, as the underside of the stair is often plastered.

Anyway, I'm watching Jon. Lots of people watch without commenting.

Mike


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## paininthe (30 Oct 2009)

It would be easy to leave comments but they would not add much to the post except as a thanks for posting of which i am greatful. 

A question which when answered will hopefully add :-

Where does the strength come from, especially in regards to fixings and movement. Is there a reliance on the situ being the giver of the strength. Does the bottom newal? (big vertical post) support the joist / floor above and does it have support underneath the bottom underfloor. The top newal supports the handrail and secures to top floor joist which is the first consideration.

The reason for the interest is my staircase is brick on both sides and i wish to remove the bannister side to open it out - very much like yours.

Thanks again


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## TrimTheKing (30 Oct 2009)

Nice work Jonny.

One point though, it looks like there's a hell of a lot of work still to be done on site. Are you going to protect the stairs in any way?

Isn't that pristine white paint job going to get trashed by the site guys, who in my experience aren't the most...erm...delicate of creatures!


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## JonnyD (30 Oct 2009)

paininthe":3k7zctw0 said:


> It would be easy to leave comments but they would not add much to the post except as a thanks for posting of which i am greatful.
> 
> A question which when answered will hopefully add :-
> 
> ...



The big newel is supporting the floor above. This wasnt intentional but there wasnt enough headroom so the trimmer joist had to be removed and the floor supported by the oak post.

The stairs are fixed to the wall underneath every tread and the top step hooks over the trimmer joist and is fixed to that. You shouldnt have any problems opening up your staircase but it will depend on whether the wall you want to remove is supporting anything above. If you post a few pics it will help.

cheers

Jon


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## JonnyD (30 Oct 2009)

TrimTheKing":3r7rgqa1 said:


> Nice work Jonny.
> 
> One point though, it looks like there's a hell of a lot of work still to be done on site. Are you going to protect the stairs in any way?
> 
> Isn't that pristine white paint job going to get trashed by the site guys, who in my experience aren't the most...erm...delicate of creatures!



The stairs have been covered with cardboard and the oak parts have been wrapped in cling film to protect them. The white finish is just the primer coat and there is still a top coat to be applied so i am hopefull it wont get too trashed.  

Because the newel is supporting the floor above the stairs needed to go in before the plastering but I usually prefer to fit after the messy sods have finished.

cheers

Jon


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## Doug B (31 Oct 2009)

Excellent job Jonny, thanks for taking the time to post the pic`s especially the installation ones. 
I`ve never had anything to do with traditional stairs, though i`ve fitted a few spiral ones, so it`s always interesting to see new techniques (to me). 




JonnyD":1qegda2j said:


> I usually prefer to fit after the messy sods have finished


 
I resemble that comment :lol: :lol: :lol:


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