# European Oak Serving Tray



## Chems (30 Mar 2010)




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## OPJ (30 Mar 2010)

With all the money you're saving for your next planer, you could easily afford to buy a proper camera so you don't keep losing those photos on your phone!!  :wink:

Interesting. I'll be making one of these in the coming weeks and it'll also have sloped or 'canted' sides; all four of them... I've got a great trick worked out for how I'm going to do it _easily_ but, I look forward to seeing what you come up with! :wink:


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## Chems (30 Mar 2010)

I don't know why it looses them, I think its because I'm taking them quickly and putting it away an somehow deleting it before its saved. Who knows?! I wouldn't take a good camera outside, sure I'd break it or get it full of dust.

I'm going to tilt the TS blade and angle the sliding table fence to do it, I'll even get to use my new bevel box! 

I think I'm going to have a 45 degree tilt but will need to do some test cuts, this site says I should use a 30 degree blade tilt and 54.74 on the table. Not sure my table tilts past 45 degrees thou so will need to work something out.


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## wizer (30 Mar 2010)

Chems":b8iafwhf said:


> I wouldn't take a good camera outside, sure I'd break it or get it full of dust.



My Nikon D50 DSLR lives in the workshop  I tried buying a cheap PAS for the workshop but after you get used to the features of a good camera it's hard to use a cheap one. Bonkers, I know. But it seems to be holding up ok for the past four years.

You're setup is looking really good now. Oh am I jealous of your space. Although I'm sure I'd soon fill it up


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## Chems (30 Mar 2010)




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## mickthetree (30 Mar 2010)

Great stuff! The workshop looks really tidy now ;-)

How is the little sip? enough oomph? Noisy? Heavy? Are you leaving it setup on that bench? 

I've often looked at these things and wondered what the results are like. Easy enough to get fairly square?

Whats the finish like stright off the machine?


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## Chems (30 Mar 2010)

It will stay on that table, which when my new hose arrives will move back over to the corner it was in when you came. I have to say, the SIP is perfect for what it is. Change over is quicker than my previous Axy model, no taking off tables, the finish seems very good, the axy planer had trouble with the european oak, could have been the blades were dull, but this one seemed to go fine. Thicknesser is good and its very quick to get the table up and down. As long as your not planning to work with really long boards its fine. I'll have to keep saving for the Jet310 so it will have to do for a good while. 

It is heavy, and it is noisy, brush motor, as noisy as my big one was, not as quite as the induction motor in the CT150. The finish is spot on, always worth a clean to get those last machining marks thou. 

Did I tell you Mick I got a LN 4 1/2 for my Bday? When we discussed the difference of weather it would be much, it is, totally difference experience, very heavy. 

I'll get a few more pictures tomorrow, got a few drawers done on the outfeed table, got the Router hooked up to the NVR for the first time ever, the top is inlayed into the main top, fitted a set of Hafele adjustable feet for 99p of ebay so the table is level with the saw table now. Just need to fit a collection box underneath the router so I can glue the top down and trim the sides pieces.


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## Ironballs (30 Mar 2010)

Chems have you biscuited those boards yet?

If no then I'd advise holding fire, having had a look at those boards I think you'd benefit from playing around with the order to get a better grain match. The difference it can make is huge to the final appearance of the piece

Cheers

Damian


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## big soft moose (30 Mar 2010)

wizer":358atxf7 said:


> Chems":358atxf7 said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't take a good camera outside, sure I'd break it or get it full of dust.
> ...



it ought to be fine - just remember to turn it off before you change lenses - as if you expose a charged sensor to the workshop air you will need a lot of sensor cleaning.

I have a canon 20D , but most of the time i use my little fuji f11 for shop pics

chems - if i were you i'd get a cheap compact off of ebay - then if it gets buggered up it doesnt really matter.


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## Chems (30 Mar 2010)

Yes  Dominoed not biscuit. 

I didn't look to much at the grain match to be honest. Hope it looks ok tomorrow.


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## mickthetree (31 Mar 2010)

I did see that you got the LN. Really interesting to hear that. I'll have ot come have a go sometime ;-)

I picked up a record number 8 off ebay a few weeks ago. Needed a bit of de rusting, but its far superior to my modern stanley number 7. That still cuts really well but the record is like a dream to use. 

Back on the sip p/t..... you mention long boards, is that because of the table lengths? But would the thicknesser handle long boards do you think? I can plane a face, but thicknessing is still taking me time.

I'm still have concerns about the noise and my neighbours. very close proximity to them with our small gardens and the shed provides very little nose resistance.

Look forward to seeing more shots of the LN in action!!


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## OPJ (31 Mar 2010)

Chems":2vksyhqv said:


> I wouldn't take a good camera outside, sure I'd break it or get it full of dust.



...Erm, what about your phone then??? 

I've had a Fuji F50 for two-years now - I've covered it in glue, sawdust, even Danish oil and it still takes a decent photo. A real bargain for £150! 8) I had a £100 Mustek before that and it didn't last long at all... Load of dung! :? Lighting is the bigger problem, for me (but, you've just addressed that, in your shop ).

You mentioned that you might be moving soon - you'll need an entire van purely for your workshop!!


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)

Olly, my phone is completely knackered with the treatment it gets, its full of dusts, its been in very hot house fires, its been soaked dropped and stood on sometimes it just turns its self off! Are my photos really that bad then? 

The SIP is loud, brush motor loud. I'd say as loud as the titan. You flattening a long face works ok as you can apply pressure to keep the board in contact but still not brilliant for long boards, its really the edge that struggles. The thicknesser will do long boards as that doesn't rely on long tables.


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## Matt_S (31 Mar 2010)

I'm suprised that the p/t is producing good results, I've looked at it before and assumed the cost and size would mean it's rubbish! I'm really lacking space and something like that would be my only option and still a squeeze!

Will you be upgrading to a big boys machine soon, I'd be interested in taking the SIP of your hands....


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)

Yes I was really surprised, I got it brand new for £140 + delivery from ebay as I just couldn't stand been with out a PT anymore. The performance is exactly the same as my old AWEPT106 which is about £400 now, the change over is better. It just can't do really long boards with the short tables. I will be upgrading soon, I want a Jet I was going to get a Jet instead of this but they seem to be having trouble so I got this as a stop gap so it will be up for sale in the near future.


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## OPJ (31 Mar 2010)

Sorry, Chems. I didn't mean to imply that your photos were of poor quality.  Don't worry, I have taken and seen much worse!! :wink: I was merely wondering how you can put up with the frustration of 'losing' the WIP photos that we all love - this isn't the first time, is it?

You'd be better off with a camera - provided you don't take it out on call with you!!  I think mobile phones are only designed to last a few years anyway - I barely even look at mine yet, I've had it five years and it looks like it's been beaten with a hammer, several times! Not only that but, a few of the buttons no longer work!! 

Will you be building your new bench with the SIP planer? If you can cut them nice and straight on your table saw then, I reckon it's worth a shot. Then again, how straight do boards for the top need to be, when you're only going to flatten it later anyway?


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)




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## mickthetree (31 Mar 2010)

love the sensual look of the photos ;-) vaseline over the lens like an old glamour shot? LN glamour shots.... now that is a step too far :wink: 

Looks super smooth. 

Did you scrape off the glue squeeze out before planning it? I find that glue scratches my planes and blunts the blade much faster than wood does. I have a hard, thick scrapper I use to quickly remove that gunk before going at it with a plane.

Looks good!


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)

I did a little bit mick, with a chisel, should have done more. Never mind I want to be able to use it not see my reflection in the sole! My view is it works like a corrugated sole!


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)

I just had a go with the Bevel box doing the Mitres Olly, same as last time I tried didn't work. I will make a 45degree slope fence for the table and then rotate the table to 45degrees, thats what I did last time and it worked better than working out the compound mitre.


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## OPJ (31 Mar 2010)

Chems":phe98e6s said:


> I just had a go with the Bevel box doing the Mitres Olly, same as last time I tried didn't work. I will make a 45degree slope fence for the table and then rotate the table to 45degrees, thats what I did last time and it worked better than working out the compound mitre.



Than sounds very similar to what I have in mind - which is basically inspired by Norm's way of cutting a cornice; "place the moulding on the saw as it will appear on the finished job...". My idea was to plane up a length of 2in scrap and bevel one edge (say, 10°). Place this against my mitre saw fence and, keeping the saw at 0°/90° vertically, swing it round to cut a 45° mitre - simple! 8)

Sounds like you've got the right idea as well... Keep the blade set at 90° but swing the fence round to 45° and place a bevelled section against it.

I agree with Mick though - you should've scraped or sanded the glue off before planing; it'll never be as shiny now!! :wink: 

Did you get those all those glue brushes from Workshop Heaven? I find I that if I clean one, it can last the best part of the year - therefore, your wad should see you out through retirement!


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## Chems (31 Mar 2010)

Yes I did get them from WH, saw the Wood Whisper using them and just had to have them. 

Never mind about the scratches, its a tool after all!

I did the same technique on the crown moulding of the vanity press and it worked a treat. It should also solve the problem that the sides are over 75mm the max height the saw can cut so hopefully with the tilt it will all fit.


To any SIP owners, my saw blade doesn't seem to be rising to its full height, anyone know why? I will investigate tomorrow but could do with some pointers.


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## Chems (1 Apr 2010)




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## Chems (1 Apr 2010)




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## OPJ (1 Apr 2010)

Chems":ad3xgjyw said:


> Olly, if you can at all get away with not doing sloping sides, do it!



Nah, that just means you need a decent mitre saw!! 

I guess the mitre gauge is a little sloppy? So many are. Maybe you'd have been better off building a jig that runs in the track? You've got the right idea, though :wink:

Your new lighting really makes a huge difference! 8)

Will you be shaping the sides or ends at all? I meant to ask before how you were going to fit the base - I plan to groove mine using the same jig to get the correct angle on the router table with a slot cutter.

I made a 'simple' tray with 90° mitred corners a couple of years ago. Despite biscuiting the joints with no.0s, I've found that a couple of the mitres have crept open slightly. Therefore, you might want to consider fitting some splines afterwards - in BW this month, someone builds a curved shelving unit that shows you how to do this.


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## Chems (1 Apr 2010)

They'll be a domino in there, hopefully that will be enough. The mitre gauge doesn't have slop but its no were near the level of accuracy of the fence. 

May use a contrast bit of walnut along the bottom of the sides. 

I'll be rebating in the base with the TS and blade set to 45degrees, the slope of the sides.


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## woodsworth (2 Apr 2010)

I made something similar years ago. The only thing i found is that even at 3/8's of an inch thick it was heavy and looked to chunky. Just something to think about, because i didn't think about it until it was done. It was a lot of work for nothing at the end because it just sat never being used. I don't know what ended up with it, got lost over the years... I put some curves on the uprights and cut elongated heart shapes for handles to give it some interest. 

I did all the cuts for the frame on a compound miter saw, looks easier then how your doing it on the table saw. That is a nice looking table saw though! Is it the 12 inch?


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## Chems (2 Apr 2010)

10"

I made the base quite thin, around 13mm, and the sides are under 18mm. Its meant to be a bit chunky and modern so hopefully it will work. 

I tried cutting it with the blade set to 30degrees and the sliding table set to 54.7 but that was nowhere near right. Thats what compound mitre calculator said. 

Maybe I should invest in a Kapex? :twisted:


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## OPJ (2 Apr 2010)

Another thought - which way will the boards run for the base? Most boards I've seen have the boards running the length of the tray but, it could be more economical to have them spanning the width - also, the shorter lengths would be less inclined to sag under load...

Expansion is _possibly_ more of a concern if you went with shorter boards as there are more of them. But, of course, they're still going to want to move, even if you orientate them the other way.

You've probably made that decision by now, anyway!


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## Chems (2 Apr 2010)

Just done the grooves for the base on the saw and stuff other bits. Even thou I made the base oversized to allow me room to cut it down its not big enough so need to plane up 2 scrap lengths and joint them on to glue overnight. Doing the base is fun, getting a angle dado the right size is precise work and the base has to be dimensioned to final size with a 45degree cut to get the right angle for the bottom of the dado.

Long story short this will be the first and last one of these I do!


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## Chems (2 Apr 2010)




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## OPJ (2 Apr 2010)

Looks good, although it's hard to get a sense of perspective of the angles from that angle (I'm sure you'll take some more of the finished tray, though. :wink.

I know what you mean about those side rebate planes... I never really saw the point until I started doing all those projects last year. If they were still £50, I probably would've bought one by now.  You might see an old Record version on eBay sometimes but, I doubt it'll sell for much less than the Veritas ("Collectors"... :roll: ).

I was reading someone's blog earlier where he used an iPhone application to set the angle of his chisel in an Eclipse-style honing guide!  Seeing your bevel box in action reminded me of this. If you had the money for an iPhone though, you could probably spare a little cash for a bevel box...


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## Chems (2 Apr 2010)

I mean these little ones:








The bevel box is great, another birthday present. My flexible hose which is DAKOTA and quick release hand clamps is the best thing I've bought this year (after the domino ) so much better than that hard grey hose! Waiting for my bench cookies to turn up in time hopefully for the final sand too. 


I couldn't get an iphone, think how long it would last with me! It'd be full of sawdust and water within weeks.


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## OPJ (2 Apr 2010)

Chems":xlovup32 said:


> ...the best thing I've bought this year (after the domino )



...So, where does your table saw come in to this???  :wink:


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## Chems (3 Apr 2010)

Oh thats in a different league!


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## Chems (5 Apr 2010)

Been struggling on, the fit isn't very good but I'll get to that later.

Cut out two 20mm hole with a spade bit and the joined them up with the jig saw:











The tried out the bench cookies with the router:






Its a very weird feeling but they work just as well as advertised, best with the router over the ROS I thought.

Quick test:









So the fit, I realized that when trying out the blade tilt and mitre gauge setting early on the numbers I had didn't work at all. I realized today the website I got them off must have been wrong. So went back and got the right ones, which is 30 degree blade tilt and 35.2 mitre gauge. Out with the bevel box:

Set to 30 degrees or 60 depending how you want to work it out!





I then squared up the mitre gauge and added some masking tape to take out the slope. I then clamped an old plane iron onto it to make it magnetic and zeroed the gauge:






I then set it:






An I'm very happy to say the fit is now perfect! Didn't get a picture as only tested one corner but will tomorrow. I'll just cut them to length carefully and re-trim the base and I should be nearly ready for glue up. 


Anyone have any great ideas how to clamp these up?


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## OPJ (5 Apr 2010)

Glad you got the angles sorted and that you're realising the potential of Bench Cookies! :wink: They are great for routing small pieces but, I agree also; they don't prevent short or narrow lengths from moving about while you're sanding (then again, neither to rubber mats, to a certain extent). I was going to suggest some form on 'inlaying' to hide those gaps but, it would be complicated and you've got it sorted anyway.

I normally use ratchet straps to clamp up assemblies like this. As nothing is at 90° though, you may have to make some special cramping blocks... I haven't really thought it through, myself.

You can buy cheap strap clamps but, in my experience, they're only plastic and they break very easily. There are also several other options though, I'm not sure whether any one in particular would be better-suited to your purpose, with those compound angles.


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## Chems (5 Apr 2010)

They are clever and very useful. I'm glad I got it sorted, one of the things I'd really looked forward to with this saw was been able to do accurate mitres right off the machine, and when it didn't work I was a bit bummed. 

I have one idea for clamping it up which is to clamp some fairly thick bits of wood to the pieces then cut normal 90 degree haunches into the ends then clamp onto these. I'm sure that makes sense to other woodworkers but won't make sense to anyone else. 

[/quote]


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## OPJ (5 Apr 2010)

Just had an idea, although this might be very similar to what you're trying to describe...

Ripping a load of scrap timber (got any cheap pine?) so it's the same width as all the sides but bevelled on one face - you're basically surrounding the frame with another frame that'll sit at 90° on the outside face. Then, you should be able to clamp that up.

You might even be able to use ordinary sash cramps, as those Dominoes aren't going to let the joints slide anywhere. :wink:


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## Chems (5 Apr 2010)

I don't think I'm going to be able to use the dominos, its not accurate enough to align them perfectly. I think I'll glue them then spline them. 

To do the dominos you sort of have to balance the fence on a knife edge so they aren't all the same. Fine for a dry fit but not good enough for the final. Would be best to domino before cutting I think.


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## Chems (6 Apr 2010)

Here it is:

(Looks in the picture like there is a gap in the base, there isn't its just the shadow!)







I used a brilliant clamping method in the end, I used a 2 part 90 second epoxy coupled with my hands. Worked great. Its all dirty at the mo with squeeze out so will clean that up in the morning and give it a few coats of melamine lacquer to give it some heat resistance.


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## OPJ (6 Apr 2010)

Chems":21fanh86 said:


> I don't think I'm going to be able to use the dominos, its not accurate enough to align them perfectly. I think I'll glue them then spline them.



Nice to hear of a job where the Domino isn't fit for purpose!!  Guess you should've hung on to your biscuit jointer...! :wink:

Seriously, I like the solution you came up with. I think Steve Maskery has done something similar with compound mitres; using one of those fast-setting mitre adhesives and reinforcing the joint afterwards with splines (as you are proposing).


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## Chems (6 Apr 2010)

A biscuit jointer would have been just the same. I'm really not sure about weather to do splines or not. Seems pretty solid how it is. I mean these modern glues are rather good. I'll sand it tomorrow and see how I feel about adding splines. 

I think a 2 part epoxy is the only way to go, the one I used was 90 second quick clear araldite mix it up and away you go. 

I was going to add a walnut string around the base, but I was worried that doing it before hand the base may glue in slightly out of square and then it would look stupid. I may try an route out the groove with my dremel and a DIY base, think it would work?


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## OPJ (6 Apr 2010)

If you do go with the inlay idea (I assume it's to disguise or hide the gap you mentioned earlier?) then I'd be concerned that you may end up gluing the base in place. Meaning that, if it's solid wood, it won't be able to expand and contract. :?

Also, as good as the glue may be, those mitre joints remain essentially end-grain to end-grain; without overlapping fibres, there is little strength in the bond, really. If the tray gets 'abused' later in its life, I'd fear a sharp knock might be enough to open one of the joints.


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## Chems (7 Apr 2010)

There are no gaps to hide! Its just a shadow! There is a tiny reveal where I put a little chamfer on the wafer thing edge but thats all. 

I was going to use the dremel to do an inlay about 3-4cm from the edge using 6mm walnut the same as I did for the top of the bedside table I did last month. The dremel has packed in so I won't be doing that now. A good sand down and I'll have to have a really good think about adding the splines. One half of me says it will be great fun to do the other half says it will ruin the look of the joints.

A simple jig like this would do fine:





Just have to take into account the 45 degree sidewards slant and tilt the blade to 45 degrees as well to get the cuts square. I think I'll have a go, will be good fun.


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## Chems (10 Jun 2010)

Never finished this thread, but ER's thread reminded me. I gave it a coat of melamine lacquer and bison wax. Probably shouldn't have waxed it. The steel wool I used set of a tanin reaction so I wasn't happy about that. Cleared away as much as I could. Anyhow its been very well used, as shown by the cup mark and the slug I cleaned off it this evening. So I'm sort of glad its not a fine perfect piece as it would make it hard to see it been used and abused so much. So my lessons, if you have any wire wool, throw it out its horrible. Use hermes 800 grit foam pads that cost £1.20 and last ages.


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## Einari Rystykaemmen (10 Jun 2010)

Chems":3cs9b4i8 said:


> The steel wool I used set of a tanin reaction so I wasn't happy about that.
> .
> .
> .
> So my lessons, if you have any wire wool, throw it out its horrible. Use hermes 800 grit foam pads that cost £1.20 and last ages.



Yep, I've learn that very same thing in the hard way... Steel wool and oak is a big no-no...  Mirka's Abralon pads (http://www.mirka.com/abralon_automotive) are excellent for that job also.

In your design the angle of frame is way more steeper than mine, so I can imagine difficulties to get fit reasonable. You sorted that out very nicely! :wink:

Next time I will do base plate from plywood or mdf and veneer it. It's pretty hard to control solid wood extracting/shrinking in this kind of design, even if using enviroment of the tray is pretty stable. Seasonal huminidy changes will be so different anyway, at least here in Finland... :lol:


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## Chems (10 Jun 2010)

Yeah, the only trouble with a veneered base if any water does get through the finish or the heat of a pot of tea it could lift the veneer up. Tricky one. The mitres were the devils work, but once I got the right formula for the angles it was a bit easier.


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