# Car boot



## Racers (31 Jul 2011)

Hi, Chaps 

My turn to get something!





The taps 10mm, 4mm and 3.5mm the pad saw and the SDS drill bit £3 the Chisel 50p and the bevel protractor £5, the rule I bought a year or so ago for probably a £1.

Spotted a quick release Woden woodworking Vice but I didn't have enough left to buy it (My wife bought lots of books) and a nice working post drill (£40)

Pete


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## Blister (31 Jul 2011)

Pete 

Dont you know the boot sale rules 

Wives carry the bags , the men hunt out the goodies 

Or in my case I do both :mrgreen: 

Result with your haul , those taps are probably £5 each at least


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## DTR (31 Jul 2011)

Nice baggings Pete 

An unexpected haul for me this week, I wasn't expecting to come home with anything...

I ended up with a 12" Taylor Brothers saw (50p), a Stanley 130A Yankee (£2), and an (unidentified) oilstone and slipstone (£1)...












And finally one of the biggest clamps I've ever seen for four pounds. Here it is with the clamp I made as an apprentice and a #4 for scale:











The clamp has a few woodworm holes so it's quarantined at the mo. Any advice on how to deal with that?


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## Blister (31 Jul 2011)

> The clamp has a few woodworm holes so it's quarantined at the mo. Any advice on how to deal with that?



Normally if you see holes it means the worms are out 

But you could put the clamp bits in a plastic bag and then in the freezer for a couple of days 

:wink:


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

Hi Guys

Bit of a slow one this weekend...Annie wanted me to "work on the stall" as she said we did better when I did...(rubbish of course!)...she made £150 on more tat and I went off with a huge wad of cash...but alas...there wasn't much around..

I find this is _always_ the way...when you are flush. When you are broke or have spent everything you find major bargains....like the darn jewellers lathe for £40 which I am still spitting bullets about...

Anyways...yesterday's "haul", meagre though it be....






I _know_ I need another countershaft...I've forgotten quite why I need another countershaft...but I do....mmmm






Lefthand side is as it came...and righthand side is tarted up...

Then lots of good reading...the Nancy Smith one on old furniture is particularly good...as is the finishing one by Frederick Oughton. Another from the *brilliant* Mr Cain...this one No.9 in the series and it was the brazing bit that interested me the most. Having watched the impressionist programme on TV the other night and watching how Degas captured figure...I thought a book on the anatomy wouldn't go amiss if I get time to paint again...and lastly one for Annie...how to repair lawnmowers. I told her to read it backwards to prevent her breaking them every year...that didn't go down too well!!!  






The best bit of the day was a *huge* collection of very fine plough (plow?) irons....






...in a rather tatty but original baise roll.

The collection is literally a rollcall of all of the wonderful Sheffield makers...as the guy replaced or added to the collection...

Ibbotson....






...a gorgeous old Ward.....






...a lot of A.Hildicks.....so I think these were the original set...






...and finally a mystery one...(don'tcha just love those Sherlock!??).....






Anyone know what that maker is? ALF? ALF!!!? HELP!! :mrgreen: 

All I need now is a beautiful beech and brass plough (plow?) plane and I'm well away!

There's always something!!!

Cheers

Jim


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## Racers (1 Aug 2011)

Hi, Jim

Yet again you have surpassed me, Can't help but be a bit annoyed :wink: 

Mind you I do have a nice wedge arm plow plane :wink:  


Pete


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

Racers":1it67yib said:


> Hi, Jim
> 
> Yet again you have surpassed me, Can't help but be a bit annoyed :wink:
> 
> ...



Oh dear....sorry Pete...didn't think the haul was that spectacular this weekend..I had to work for the Saturday one and like I said...Annie had me selling for most of the early part of the morning. The irons were there last week as well but I thought the guy would probaby want a fortune for them so I passed them by...

This week I happen to have a need for a nice plow plane....and so checked the price of a set of irons...his hand now has bite marks on it...a quid!! Not each...for the whole lot!

I don't suppose that makes you feel any better does it?  

You up for perhaps parting with the plow plane my friend? :wink: 

Jim


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## Racers (1 Aug 2011)

Hi, Jim

Very good price for the irons, you know how to rub it in :wink: 

Sorry the plow plane is a keeper, try Ebay they don't seem to go for much money, as you have all the irons you should be able to pick up a cheap one.

20 miniuts to go http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antique-Joine ... 4aad37edbd


Pete


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## adidat (1 Aug 2011)

you guys are mean, no bootfair for me this weekend, whenever i dont go i always sit and think what bargains i may have missed out on.

but i did pick up some monster pieces of box. and some very tasty pieces of english walnut. pics to come

adidat


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## jimi43 (1 Aug 2011)

Racers":wkb617tm said:


> Hi, Jim
> 
> Very good price for the irons, you know how to rub it in :wink:
> 
> ...



Hi Pete...

I have to admit scouring FleaBay for plow planes on Sunday evening and bookmarking a few...

I rejected that one because of the missing bits....I have one I fancy...but want to wait for one that is really bling...some of them are pieces of art!

One thing that concerns me though is that apparently the plane is made to fit the irons...the taper and the groove for the skate being critical along with the clearance for the adjustment. The skate is the bed so these need to mate.

I wonder if I should make one?

mmmmm............... :wink: 

Never fear adidat...there is always one next week!

Jim


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## Richard T (1 Aug 2011)

Look what they did to our boot fair this week.... :-({|= 

http://www.globalgathering.com/


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## DTR (1 Aug 2011)

Blister":1pe5xn5x said:


> Normally if you see holes it means the worms are out
> 
> But you could put the clamp bits in a plastic bag and then in the freezer for a couple of days
> 
> :wink:



Thanks for the tip, I'll give that a go.



jimi43":1pe5xn5x said:


> This week I happen to have a need for a nice plow plane....and so checked the price of a set of irons...his hand now has bite marks on it...a quid!! Not each...for the whole lot!



:shock:


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## AndyT (2 Aug 2011)

jimi43":38zm0dpk said:


> I have to admit scouring FleaBay for plow planes on Sunday evening and bookmarking a few...
> 
> I rejected that one because of the missing bits....I have one I fancy...but want to wait for one that is really bling...some of them are pieces of art!
> 
> ...



This worthwhile activity is made even more enjoyable by the sellers who label their moving fillister
planes as plough planes and only like wedges if they are in backwards!


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## Racers (2 Aug 2011)

Hi, Jim

I have a mis-matched set of irons for my plane and they all fit o/k.

Pete


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## jimi43 (2 Aug 2011)

Racers":13tr3cw2 said:


> Hi, Jim
> 
> I have a mis-matched set of irons for my plane and they all fit o/k.
> 
> Pete




Ah...thanks for that clarification Pete. I have checked and the taper is about the same for all of them so that's one variable that is the same (UH!!!)...

One thing I was glad I checked before I sharpened them was that they have a slight curve near the edge on the "flat" side. I understand that curve also varies from maker to maker and that it is necessary to impart a spring to the iron so that the wedge fits tight and stays in place. I am so glad I didn't flatten it! I thought it was a bit strange!

Jim


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## AndyT (3 Aug 2011)

Jimi's mystery plane iron maker has been bothering me - I'm sure it's a Sheffield mark that I have seen before:








But it's not on anything I own.

Nor is it in Goodman's _British Planemakers_ (at least, not in the 2nd edition).

It's not in the really useful guide to Sheffield marks that Alf found from (of course!) the Canadian Parks Service - http://www.sha.org/research_resources/documents/Trademarks on Base-Metal Tableware.pdf

It's not on the Backsaw site's handy page of maker's marks: http://www.backsaw.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=92.

...but it might just be in here:






"528 pages, 935 illustrations and 575 marks in colour, *with an appendix of 269 plane-iron marks*."

Now I know from their happy posts when they bought it that *Harbo* and *Toolsntat* both have copies. Any chance of either of you guys taking a peek inside and seeing if you can find that funny decorated column/ obelisk/ very tall wedding cake? Or anyone else who has bought what seems like a very desirable book?


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## Harbo (4 Aug 2011)

Andy - sorry not in the mighty tome.
Nor any other book I have sorry.

Rod


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## LuptonM (5 Aug 2011)

There's quite alot of unusable tools at the car boot but now and again there's something usable like this wooden skew rebate plane









I wonder how old it is cos it looks quite new


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## AndyT (5 Aug 2011)

LuptonM":3dkqb9sw said:


> There's quite alot of unusable tools at the car boot but now and again there's something usable like this wooden skew rebate plane
> 
> I wonder how old it is cos it looks quite new



Very hard to date. I'd say it was some time in the 19th or 20th century!

It could be old and over-cleaned, or it could be quite recent. Simple rebate planes were still made up to about the 1960s I believe.
A maker's name would help: is there anything other than that odd ED logo? (Or maybe that's another trademark I don't recognise!)

It could even be user-made: there is a transverse hole at the top of the blade which I've not seen on a factory made plane; the exit hole for the shavings is a bit small, and the wedge is a touch crude. Still useful though!


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## LuptonM (5 Aug 2011)

The only other thing is that it has 1 1/8 stamped on the back (blade width). I think the ED must be either the initials of the company/maker. Whoever made it obviously made more than one since he would have had to have custom stamps made


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## toolsntat (5 Aug 2011)

Hey up Jimi , that trade mark (device) as soon as I saw it I had a guess but wanted to be sure.
Forgot all about the Russell tome Andy :roll: 
So back to the mark.......
Spoke to a really nice man at David Stanley's Auction today and he confirmed my thoughts with a company history.....
His Great Grandfather had offices round the corner from here when he set up the business :wink: 
Here's a clue
http://www.themonument.info/history/introduction.asp

Andy


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## AndyT (6 Aug 2011)

toolsntat":2pp2o6wi said:


> Hey up Jimi , that trade mark (device) as soon as I saw it I had a guess but wanted to be sure.
> Forgot all about the Russell tome Andy :roll:
> So back to the mark.......
> Spoke to a really nice man at David Stanley's Auction today and he confirmed my thoughts with a company history.....
> ...



You tease!

It's presumably not Monument Tools:







so it must be one of the London cluster of plane makers, which was perhaps unusual in putting their own mark on blades that they had bought in from Sheffield - or are you saying that it was a London steelworks?
The frustrating thing is that I know I've seen this mark discussed before, and remember (now you give us a clue) that the 'wedding cake' frills are a very stylised version of the Monument's swags of carving on the base. But who was it?

Please tell!


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## Tom K (6 Aug 2011)

Hi Guys, looking at that makers mark Monument?.......hmm some very dodgy drawing skills.
Surely it depicts an unlit torch doesn't it?


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## toolsntat (7 Aug 2011)

Mmmmm , well it may transpire that I have dropped a wobbly one as it was Monuments Managing Director, John Collier who I was talking to
and when I mentioned the "monument" as a trade mark we did not compare actual pictures...... :shock:   

I wish I had found the history bit on the company website before #-o 

Will have a look for the boxful of boxwood plumbers tools I have as this is where I thought I had seen the mark :roll:

Suppose the clincher would have been to ask if they had ever made plane irons :-" 

Andy


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## AndyT (7 Aug 2011)

Doh!

That's going to bug me even more now.
I've searched on here using as many suitable terms as I can manage, and run through all of Alf's blog, which was the next most likely place I thought I'd seen it.


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## Richard T (7 Aug 2011)

This week the Global Gathering had departed and we got one bootsale in before next week's Bulldog Bash. :roll: 

Anyway here's what I picked up this morning.






I know, I know ... I already have two plough planes. But one has a cracked fence and the other a plastic handle. So at last I have a wooden handled, full iron setted stanley. Hooray!

The bolt cutters will be essential for the hedge/fence we are taking down today between showers. I never have enough new hacksaw blades and I'm working on tarting the marking gauge up with brass sheet already.


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## Alf (7 Aug 2011)

If it's any comfort it's bugging the hell out of me too, Andy - I'm sure I've seen it somewhere too, but that hardly narrows it down!

And Richard, a plough plane for at least every iron you think you might use is a good rule of thumb - you've got loads to get yet.


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## AndyT (7 Aug 2011)

Alf":3ltutq5y said:


> If it's any comfort it's bugging the hell out of me too, Andy - I'm sure I've seen it somewhere too, but that hardly narrows it down!
> 
> And Richard, a plough plane for at least every iron you think you might use is a good rule of thumb - you've got loads to get yet.



I'm glad it's not just me - and I suppose we must conclude that you weren't the one who posted a picture of this mark - but who was it?

I agree about the plough planes - there are subtle differences that mean you *need *to have a choice. :lol:


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## toolsntat (8 Aug 2011)

Just been through the box and out of about 25 tools these are the only 3 marked :roll: and a pic of the mark in an old catalogue....
How's the saying go? "Close, but no cigar" :wink: :lol: 

Andy


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## jimi43 (8 Aug 2011)

Oh dear....I'm feeling terribly guilty....I didn't intend to present a major mystery without at least trying to work it out myself...but it seems things have taken on a wider search.

It bugs me too when I can't find something...

What...other than a monument could that represent..I tried obelisk myself...but I don't think that is right either...

Jim


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## Alf (8 Aug 2011)

AndyT":2r0cr2rs said:


> Alf":2r0cr2rs said:
> 
> 
> > If it's any comfort it's bugging the hell out of me too, Andy - I'm sure I've seen it somewhere too, but that hardly narrows it down!
> ...


Well you could conclude that, but I wouldn't like to say so for certain - the effects of the aluminium pans tends to kick in these days! :lol:

As to how to describe the mark, I was toying with _torch_ (unduly influenced by Olympic thinking perhaps), _chimney_, _gas lamp_, _kiln_ and even _still_. But not really convinced on any of them.


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## toolsntat (21 Nov 2011)

Been sorting through loads of box's of stuff I need to sell earlier and found the same mark on the chip iron of an unnamed wooden smoother with a "MAWHOOD" blade.
Thing is the "MAWHOOD" trademark on this blade is a tree....

Must get a pic sorted

Andy


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## AndyT (21 Nov 2011)

toolsntat":19on2eh1 said:


> Been sorting through loads of box's of stuff I need to sell earlier and found the same mark on the chip iron of an unnamed wooden smoother with a "MAWHOOD" blade.
> Thing is the "MAWHOOD" trademark on this blade is a tree....
> 
> Must get a pic sorted
> ...



Yes please, if you can - this is still bugging me (though it's worn off a little bit since August...) - but are you saying it's a Mawhood mark, or that your Mawhood plane has a cap iron from our mystery maker who is somebody else?


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## toolsntat (22 Nov 2011)

Righto folks.....

Plane is unmarked and been modified to rebate....















It would appear this mark has been struck some time after Jim's as the left portions of the swags are less defined











Judging by the condition of this screw-head I would say the 2 parts have been together since new BUT, that in no way implies they are from the same manufacturer






Cheers
Andy


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## Jake (22 Nov 2011)

I wonder (if it is less about Mawhood than his predecessor or whatever).

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/ ... 1/page.pdf


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## jimi43 (23 Nov 2011)

I can see no connection between the MAWHOOD and Palm Tree Works and stamp....and that of the one which still remains a mystery.

This is almost unique on this forum...usually the joint investigative skills of the members comes through Sherlock-like in a matter of days!

Fascinating snippet that though Jake...so 1879 is the end of the Palm Tree Works? Or did it go on?

I can't find Mawhood in the reference books that I have...only a few examples on Google....mmmm

Jim


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## No skills (23 Nov 2011)

Mawhood finished up in 1879??? if that is when they last produced any tools then I have a very old chisel at work doing work thats an insult to its age  

Can anybody confirm or deny this?


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## jimi43 (23 Nov 2011)

No skills":3lhvajkp said:


> Mawhood finished up in 1879??? if that is when they last produced any tools then I have a very old chisel at work doing work thats an insult to its age
> 
> Can anybody confirm or deny this?



It would appear the company was taken over from receivership in 1879 and then flourished throughout the 20C....from the National Archives:



> The business was established by 1879, as manufacturers of steel files. By 1909 it was known as Mawhood Bros Ltd and in 1978 the business was bought out by Gordon Tools and closed down.



Wonder what happened to Gordon Tools! 

Jim


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## jimi43 (23 Nov 2011)

A bit more interesting family history:



> In Australia...
> 
> Margaret (MAWHOOD) and her family left Bathurst in March 1865, bound for England. It appears though that further children included:
> 
> ...



Picture of the Pond Hill works...1930 (source Sheffield City Council website)






Some of the family remained in or returned to Australia and formed Mawhood Bros PTY.....

Jim


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## No skills (23 Nov 2011)

Thanks Jim, nice bit of history there. Possably my chisel could of been made in the late 70's * - at least thats what I'm going to tell myself which doesnt make me feel so bad  

* so its only as old as I am  


I feel a Mawhood chisel hunt coming on.


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## Harbo (24 Nov 2011)

I have a tanged firmer chisel by Stevenson Mawhood & Co. with a Crown logo.
It's a weird shape , thinnish with a very slight curve inwards like an incannel gouge?

Found this on the web: 
"The Bankruptcy Act, 1869.
In the County Court of Yorkshire, holden at Sheffield.
In the Matter of a Bankruptcy Petition against John
Parkinson Mawhoo1, of Brightfield House, Sharrowlane,
and carrying on business at Palm Tree Works,
Attereliffe. both in the parish of Sheffield, in the county
of York, Merchant and Steel File and Edge Tool Manufacturer,
trading as Stevenson, Mawhood, and Company,
bv Robert Smith, of Sheffield aforesaid, Iron Merchant..
UPON the hearing of this Petition this day, and upon
proof satisfactory to the Court of the debt of the Petitioner,
and of the trading, and of the act of Bankruptcy alleged
to have been committed by the said John Parkinson Mawhood
having been given, it is ordered that the said John
Parkinson Mawhood be, and he is hereby, adjudged bankrapt.—
Given under the Seal of the Court this 9th day of
July 1879. By the Court,
Thos. W. Badgers, Registrar.
The First General Meeting of the creditors of the said
John Parkinson Mawhood is hereby summoned to be held
at the County Court Hall, Bank-street, Sheffield aforesaid,
on the 21st day of July, 1879, at eleven o'clock in the
forenoon, and that the Court has ordered the bankrupt to
atteni thereat for examination, and to produce thereat a
statement of his affairs, as required by the statute.
Until the appointment of a Trustee, all persons -having in
their possession any of the effects of the bankrupt must
deliver them, and all debts due to the .bankrupt must be
paid, to the Registrar. Creditors must forward their
Proofs of Debts to the Registrar.
The Bankruptcy Act, 1869."


Rod


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## No skills (24 Nov 2011)

Dang, missed some mawhood firmers on evilbay. Went for more than I expected.

Might rescue my work chisel, feeling guilty.


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## Harbo (24 Nov 2011)

Quote: 
"The business was established by 1879, as manufacturers of steel files. By 1909 it was known as Mawhood Bros Ltd and in 1978 the business was bought out by Gordon Tools and closed down."

So from the above and the bankruptcy in 1879 - Stevenson Mawhood & Co. products were made before 1879?

My chisel is quite old then?

Rod


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## jimi43 (25 Nov 2011)

Ah...but does any of this have anything to do with the mystery logo? :wink: 

Caps and irons are the only link....

Jim


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## AndyT (25 Nov 2011)

jimi43":2spdoo8o said:


> Ah...but does any of this have anything to do with the mystery logo? :wink:
> 
> Caps and irons are the only link....
> 
> Jim



It doesn't really, does it. Except in a negative way, that despite our collective efforts to illuminate the bumpy careers of the Mawhood family, we have only come up with one trademark being used by them - the Palm Tree.*
We still have Andy's plane as the only (potential) link between the two marks.

If Mawhoods didn't make the cap iron for Andy's plane but bought it in from someone else, I suppose we have an argument in favour of the monument mark belonging to another Sheffield maker - but that would hardly be surprising, would it!

Does anyone here have any connection with the Hawley Trust at Sheffield? I suspect the answer may well be in their archive - but I'm not sure how to ask someone to have a look.

----
* Ok, make that two - they also used a parasol, as shown on the picture of the works. This is also illustrated in the booklet 'Trademarks on Base Metal Tableware' referred to earlier (which lists them erroneously as 'Mawbood')


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## Harbo (25 Nov 2011)

This is their earlier logo which looks like a crown to me?
















Or is it a Palm tree in a crown??

Rod


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## Alf (25 Nov 2011)

I'm inclined not to put much importance to the cap iron mark appearing paired with a Mahwood iron - personally I reckon I've seen more double iron combos in wooden bench planes that have different manufacturers than ones that don't. Also, I'm still not able to shift the thought that the mystery mark isn't a British one at all, but Continental - and that cap iron isn't particularly helping to dispel that. I can't put my finger on _why_ I'm thinking this, but it's a gut feeling that won't go away (and it's probably wrong, but there it is, yours to do with what you will)

Honestly, when (if) we ever get the answer, I shall fall upon the provider of same with gladsome cries of relief! :lol:


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## jimi43 (26 Nov 2011)

I think it's a palm tree on a stylised desert island...anyone else see it that way?

I feel for you ALF...I am as frustrated about this also because I have seen another one!

I just can't remember where!  

Jim


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