# TREND T5 Competition router table - progress report (long..)



## Neil (7 Dec 2004)

A router table… what on earth is this doing in the competition? Well, I was making one anyway, and not being the most prolific producer of furniture from the workshop I knew that I wouldn’t manage to get a ‘proper’ table made in time. I was going to show my ‘first router table’ efforts to the forum anyway, and you never know - there might be a consolation prize for last place...






I knocked up a quick model in SketchUp to get the basic proportions. I liked the idea of having white MDF panels inset into a frame fastened with knock-down fittings - the latter making it possible to dismantle the table when I (hopefully) move house early next year. The router compartment is left open for ventilation a la Hylton’s ‘Woodworking with the Router’. Naturally I changed all of the measurements once I started making the thing :roll: 

The top is made up of four layers - melamine-covered hardboard, two layers of 16mm MDF (would have been 12mm if I could have got it locally) and another layer of the melamine hardboard on the bottom to stabilise the laminate. I rough-cut the four pieces, then trimmed one of the MDF pieces exactly to size using my router & clamp guide. The four pieces were then glued with PVA and left for a couple of days on top of my (hopefully flat) benchtop with a huge assortment of clamps, heavy boxes, drill press etc. on top. (If you have to see the resulting mess, go ahead) Once the PVA had cured, I trimmed the waste off the remaining layers using a bearing-guided cutter. The resulting table top was nice & flat and VERY heavy: 





I had bought an insert to mount the router, and the corners of the insert had a ½" radius, so I used a ½" cutter to create the opening for the insert. I don’t have a guide bush for my big router :blush: but fortunately the Makita’s round baseplate makes it quite a simple task to set up guides for routing the opening: 




_Before..._





_After..._

I used a ½” spacer with the same guides to route another groove directly inside this one, but another few mm deeper. I then cut out the waste with a jigsaw, flipped the table top over, and tidied up with a bearing guided cutter. Then I cut a rebate from the underside using a bearing-guided rebating cutter - this was necessary because the bolts for the clips which come with the insert plate to fasten it down were too short to reach right through the rather thick top. I hope you see what I mean - I feel confused myself reading that last bit...

Anyway, here is the result - I’ve also added a thick pine lipping at this stage - I would like to say for the competition’s sake that I biscuited this on, but I’m just too damn honest . It didn’t really need them with all that glue area.





Now we all know the feeling making stuff for the workshop - you need the finished jig/bench/insert your workshop project here to make the item! This is particularly true for this router table, so I decided to mount the table top to a workmate and clamp everything on temporarily: 





The little gloat in this picture also explains why I made the top so wide - ideally the Incra needs 20" from the cutter to the back edge. I have a tiny bit less than that, I was already pushing my luck (and the space in the workshop) with the size of it.

The table legs had to be grooved to allow the 16mm MDF side panels to slot in, this was a nice simple job with the Incra - cut a groove with the 12.5mm cutter, move the fence away from the bit by a smidge over 3.5mm, and voila, a (just over) 16mm groove. For the rails at the front, I milled shallow mortices using the same setup, but lowering the leg onto the cutter and moving it between two marks. I squared up the mortices using a chisel.

I decided to mill little stub tenons on all the rails, more to provide easy location than from any strength considerations. This was a simple job - I just lined up all the rails and ran a rebating cutter along. The side & back rails were also grooved to accept the MDF.





Here you can just about see the mortices on the leg nearest the camera (sorry about the overexposure) - also the grooves in the back legs, and the stub tenons on the rails.





Here are the KD fittings. I like these for this sort of application - they are really strong. It gets tedious drilling all the holes for them, though - there were quite a few of them!





Skipping ahead a bit (I forgot to take any photos ) - here is the frame bolted together with the MDF panels in place. Fortunately I remembered to paint the MDF panels before installing them. I’ve also added the shelf - this is simply supported by battens, and has a small cove trim in an attempt to avoid sharp corners for dust to gather in. - I’ll probably do all my template routing from the back of the table to make the most of the table depth, so I mounted the NVR switch on the side rather than the front so I can get to it more easily.

I really needed to have the table on castors, and locked castors with rubber tyres just slide on my workshop floor, so I needed a simple system to raise them. I liked a system I had seen on NYW, but I was determined not to lose the space for my drawer so I had to modify it slightly:





Each pair of castors is attached to a hinged board, and there are little hinged flaps to hold the boards down when the wheels are in use. When you want to flip them up, you simply take the weight on that side of the table, and yank a cord to pull the flaps up. You then repeat on the other side of the table. To lower the castors, you simply lift the front and the back of the table in turn, and the flaps just drop. Norms version has flaps on each side, and so did mine at first, but I had some problems with friction in the system to lead the cords around the space for the drawer, so I dispensed with the left hand flaps. There is still too much friction to allow the flaps to fall under their own weight, so I added some bungee cord to pull them down (the blue cord). It works really well, and doesn’t seem to flex if I apply a _Mike test_TM and put my weight on the table.

The cords pop out of holes on the left hand side of the table:





I had an urgent bit of template routing to do, so I’ve also made a bit guard with dust extraction. The acrylic guard can be adjusted to three different heights, to match the size of the work and have the guard as close to the bit as possible, just by putting more blocks between the acrylic and the main part of the guard. Here it is in the middle height position, with one block either side of the acrylic. I had to set the extraction tub in at an angle so that it didn't restrict the minimum height for the guard too much.





That’s about it for now - remaining jobs are to French Polish the pine frame (only joking, Neil - I think oil & wax will do!) and make the drawer. I also have to make a ‘Wonderfence’ substitute to attach to the Incra for use with big cutters - I managed to get hold of a piece of box-section aluminium, 100x45mm, 2mm wall thickness, which will form the basis of this. I’ve cut an opening in this (I would like to say I routed it, but I was a bit nervous ) - some careful jigsawing followed by a bit of work with a drum sander did the job  




I need to add moveable MDF faces, dust extraction and fastening points for mounting to the Incra.

Sorry about the long post...

NeilCFD

<edited because I got the required distance for the Incra from the bit to the back edge wrong in the write-up  (luckily not on the table though :wink - it is 20", not 24">


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## Alf (7 Dec 2004)

<Throws in towel without further preamble>
Blimey, Neil, your workshop stuff's smarter than my furniture... And just how heavy is that top?! No danger of sagging at any rate.





Cheers, Alf


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## Adam (7 Dec 2004)

You;ve made a nice job of that. Look forward to seeing the first project using it :shock: :wink: 

Adam


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## Noel (7 Dec 2004)

Rather excellent Neil. really good. Make sure you keep us up to date with fence etc.

Noel


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## Newbie_Neil (7 Dec 2004)

Hi NeilCFD

Sorry, but I'll have to ban you as I saw a speck of dust on the floor. :wink: 

It's looking good.

Cheers
Neil


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## Signal (7 Dec 2004)

Funky table neil, good idea to make it flatable

Signal


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## tim (7 Dec 2004)

Neil,

Looks fantastic - well done. Makes me realise that I need to get on and build one. V. impressed with your sketchup drawings as well. Its quite a 'spenny bit of software - do you use it only for furniture or more for architectural stuff.

Also forgive me - I haven't got the book you refer to but I would always have thought that doors on the router space would be better for both sound and dust extraction. Can you explain the thinking behind not having them please?

Covet the Incra!!

Cheers

Tim


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## DaveL (7 Dec 2004)

Neil,

Nice table, like the wheel idea, with the weight of that top you must need the wheels. :wink: 

Are you going to do any under table dust extraction?


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## Midnight (7 Dec 2004)

Proper Job Neil.... 

Norm would be proud of the castor arrangement.....

Just one suggestion....

might be an idea to add a dust port for the DC somewhere around level with the router... I learned the hard way that an enclosed router likes to be kept cool.... 

The DC probably winna do much to keep that side of the top mess free.....but it'll shift enough air to stop the router cooking....


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## Neil (7 Dec 2004)

Thanks, everyone  

Alf, I don't think you have anything to worry about if your music stand & boxes are anything to go by - in fact, I'd say your only worry will be whether your remaining routers will go up in smoke!

Re: the top, um, it is a _little_ heavy - I was pretty careful not to drop it on my foot before mounting it on the cabinet :shock: 

Adam, Noely, Sig - thanks, I now have Alf's head-swelling affliction :lol: 

Neil, damn that dust, I knew I'd missed something  

Tim, I use SketchUp just for furniture, and to be honest I haven't used it much yet. I use a package called Rhino for work which is much more of a 'proper' 3D CAD package, and this is sometimes useful for woodwork stuff too, but SketchUp is so much quicker for, well, sketching!. The pricing is daft, though - should be 1/3 the cost :roll: 

Re: the door, I must admit I'm a bit dubious about this too. The reasoning in the book is all about getting maximum airflow so the router doesn't overheat, but I can't imagine I'll be running it continuously for great lengths of time. I thought that I would suck it and see for a while, and add a acrylic door at a later date if I decided that the overheating concern was a bit far-fetched.

Oh, and buy an Incra - fantastic!

Dave, I am indeed going to have extraction under the table, with a T-piece to take off a hose for the above-table stuff. I must admit, for the stuff I've done so far (template routing, box joints with the Incra etc.) there hasn't been much dust in the cabinet afterwards, but I'm sure that will change! :wink: 

Mike, thanks - as I said to Dave, I'll be putting something in, but after your advice, maybe I'll raise it further up the cabinet. So did you melt a router, then? What do you think of the door/no door decision?

Cheers,

NeilCFD


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## Anonymous (7 Dec 2004)

Neil,

Very impressive, the table and the posting. I particularly like the castor arrangement, I can see uses for that in my shop.

Everything I have read about router tables always stresses the importance of flatness of the top. But the Rousseau insert that I have is slightly crowned, deliberately I believe, which sort of defeats the flatness argument doesn't it?

Wulf


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## Signal (7 Dec 2004)

Midnight and Neil...

I mounted my dust ex port for my table mid way just infront of the router to keep the router cool.

Was a totally pointless exercise, router still died way earlier than it should of and the dust extraction was useless.

Ripped the back off and moved it to the bottom and the dust extraction is much better and the router has lasted longer. Cant really put the router death down to it but hey who knows :wink: 

Signal


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## frank (7 Dec 2004)

nice one neil ,will those castors work on a t/saw of 250 lbs .


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## Anonymous (7 Dec 2004)

Lovely job Neil. How could it not be enterred into the competition? Well, if it wasn't made with router and biscuit jointer I guess :lol: 

Seriously nice table with a good solid top. Makes me think about my next project...


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## DaveL (7 Dec 2004)

frank":223vkoir said:


> will those castors work on a t/saw of 250 lbs .



Frank,

As long as you use suitable sized castors, hinges and timber I cannot see why the design will not work for a bigger machine. 
If I was going to use this design on a table saw I think I would fit a support flap on each end of the castor flap to stop the weight twisting the timber, as Neil started out with. The shock cord can be bought from B&Q and I think with careful hole cutting and corner smoothing a double flap will work.
If your floor has a good flat surface, you do not need the wheels to drop very far for the machine to be mobile. This would allow controlled testing, with limited danger of the whole thing going over.

If you do try this out please take care, don't do you back in trying to get the saw on to the base.


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## Chris Knight (8 Dec 2004)

Neil,

Great looking table, I am sure it will serve you very well. At least until you make your next one, incorporating all the improvements you dream up whilst using this one!


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## Philly (8 Dec 2004)

Neil
Good work!
Glad you like the Incra-are we looking forward to a double dovetailed drawer???
Philly


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## Waka (8 Dec 2004)

Neil

Very smart looking table, how did you fit the top to the base? really like the wheel idea. not going to mention the Incra because I said I wouldn't but anymore tools this year.


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## Neil (8 Dec 2004)

Wulf, as far as I am aware, the crowning of the insert is designed to compensate for the deflection when a heavy router is hung off it. The Makita is one of the heavier routers around, at 6kg I think, and I must admit I haven't noticed the crowning now that the router is mounted from it. I haven't checked with a straight edge, though - I'll check later today.

Sig, this is interesting. Has anyone else had overheating problems? How has yours been with the acrylic door, Philly?

Frank, the cheap Axminster castors I used won't take that sort of weight, but I'm sure as Dave says, the lifting system would work with the right hinges & timber selection. I agree with Dave about having all four flaps too - if you're not putting a drawer above the system, friction won't be a problem anyway. Also I just used cheap metal eyes to pass the cord through - the next time I'm ordering stuff for my boat, I might get some microblocks to use instead which will improve things no end.

Tony, hope your next project will involve getting an Incra, honestly, you would love it  

Chris, I'm already thinking of a few improvements, so I think you could be right!

Philly, I'm afraid it will just be finger-jointed :lol: 

Cheers everyone,

Neil


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## froglet (8 Dec 2004)

A very nice table Neil. Which version of the Incra is that? I am about to start on my first router table and i am seriously considering getting an incra fence system for it, the only problem being that I have very limited space and they appear to need tops the size of carrier decks :? 

Graeme


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## CYC (8 Dec 2004)

Well done Neil, outstanding table. Outstanding work. I would have defintely messed up cutting the insert, by half a millimeter :roll:


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## Anonymous (8 Dec 2004)

Neil

Incra is currently top of my xmas list (almost given up on the lathe) :wink:


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## Neil (8 Dec 2004)

Waka, nothing fancy for the fastening, just (lots of) plastic assembly joints. Re: the Incra, January isn't far away now!

Graeme, it is the Incra Ultra-Lite, best deal I found was £141 from Tilgear. I think it is plenty big enough for the router table. How about making a table top that hinges from the wall, so you can fold it down when it isn't in use?

CYC, thanks - looking forward to trying it on Saturday?

Tony, yeay, great news!

NeilCFD


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## Chris Knight (8 Dec 2004)

Graeme,

The Incra can take up a fair bit of room and the 12 1.2 inch Lite version is probably enough for most folk as opposed to the larger ones.

As Neil suggests there are space saving options. Like a hinged surface, either from the wall or the back of the router table. In the latter case, all you have to do is raise the extension and clamp on the Incra - the rest of the time it is sitting on a shelf or in a drawer. 

That is, until you realise that the Incra system has an indispensable fence and there is no good reason to use anything else, fencewise. I don't use my Incra for joint making at all - except finger joints but I use the precise fence positioning all the time. There is simply nothing to touch it.

I reckon a modification of the Incra design could put all its best bits into a much less space hungry package - one of these days, I may even get around to doing it. Till then I reckon the hassle of its size is worth it.


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## Philly (8 Dec 2004)

Chris is right-the Incra is way more than "just a fence". You need to spend some time with it before you realize it, but Boy is it good. Makes you wish you had the same degree of accuracy with the rest of your power tools! :lol: 
Mind you, Incra recommend you use it with your drill press, bandsaw and even your table saw in the manual. So guess I should try that out.......
Cheers
Never enough time Philly


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## dickm (8 Dec 2004)

Great table! 
I wonder if a simpler wheeling arrangement would work? My very heavy Lurem universal sits on an angle iron frame with just two heavy duty wheels at the back. When it needs moving, I hook a loose castor on a lever on to the front to lift it. Works fine except for that d*** hole in the concrete that is just where the single castor wants to go!


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## Midnight (8 Dec 2004)

> Neil Wrote..





> So did you melt a router, then? What do you think of the door/no door decision?



Not exactly melted.. but certainly cooked it a bit; the Freud speed control circuit uses a magnet on the end of the rotor shaft to sense the shaft RPM's. The excessive heat managed to separate the magnet from the shaft, resulting in the motor running at around 30,000 RPM instead of the controlled max of 22,000. Apparently the repair shop used a strobe to check the speed; they'd never seen a fault quite like it....

My table is a copy of Norm's first design; plans bought just weeks before they changed to the deluxe version... in the plans, there's a large baffle behind the router, fully side to side, extending from the table down to within 2" of the top of the drawer housing. That baffle effectively kills any air-flow around the router. I'm guessing the original idea was to draw a curtain of air along the full length of the router well to assist with dust collection, as well as duct air through the fence via a vent in the top.....

Guess what... didn't work worth a @£$%... 

So after cooking the router, I set at this baffle with avengence, using a 3/4" auger bit and brace to turn the top 6" of the baffle into a tea bag. Now it works a bit too bloody well... whenever I raise panels on the table, the airflow directly under the top is enough to draw most of the shavings into the cooling holes, rather than let them fall to the bottom of the well... They keep the router nice and cool though....

As for the door... to date, I haven't got around to fitting one yet although I've had a piece of thick perspex big enough to do the job for a while now... I still canna decide where best to place any vent holes to get that air curtain effect to work... 
Any thoughts....???


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## Neil (8 Dec 2004)

waterhead37":vzpblvjg said:


> I reckon a modification of the Incra design could put all its best bits into a much less space hungry package



Quite agree, Chris - the requirement for 20" of table behind the bit for a fence with 12.5" of travel does make one think that a bit of 'space optimisation' wouldn't go amiss.

Dick, your simple wheel arrangement sounds good, especially for heavy stuff.

Mike, I remember that Philly put the holes along the bottom edge, although I can't find the picture on 'Philsville' now. It looks like a sensible arrangement, but I think what we really need is an ex-Compaq server case designer to tell us how to do it - I've seen them produce a few really impressive ducting systems over the years.

NeilCFD

<edited because I got the required distance for the Incra from the bit to the back edge wrong in the write-up  (luckily not on the table though :wink - it is 20", not 24">


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## Anonymous (8 Dec 2004)

Niel

Very nice work. The great thing about such a project is it can be judged on its fitness for purpose and construction without any influence of personal taste. So it looks just about perfect to me and will doubtless be an ergonomic delight in use.

Roy


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## Philly (9 Dec 2004)

Neil,
Sorry, took the R/T photo's offline-will be posting a router table section on the website soon.
I have a 4inch outlet on the rear bottom of the router "cavity" (?) and have drilled some 1 1/2 in holes in the plexi door at the front, to ensure enough air is moving. Some experimenting is necessary to get it happy (and you still need extraction at the fence) but it is useful
cheers
Philly


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## CYC (9 Dec 2004)

I wanted to add, many thanks Neil for posting such a detailed project report. This kind of post is certainly the most educative, inspiring and promoting (discussion and questions). The pictures are invaluable and your hands on comments very useful.
Of course I am very lucky as I will get to see this table and it's famous fence in the flesh at the WE 

:idea: May there be more long reports like this :idea: 

I should also thank all the users who have done this before on the forum.
Now, I am done with the happy christmas cheery feelings :wink: :wink:


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## dedee (9 Dec 2004)

waterhead37":399t2z4j said:


> Like a hinged surface, .........from the back of the router table.



I having been thinking along those lines myself. It just so happens that I have an old gate leg table that might be suitable. If the surfaces are flat enough I envisage mounting the router in the centre part of the table and the Incra fence on the flap. 

Seems like a good idea to me but it may be sometime before the tuit arrives

Andy


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## Steve Maskery (9 Dec 2004)

Neil
Great job.
I saw the wheel-flap-thingies on Norm too, I like the idea but don't like the way they interfere with storage space.
Interesting comments about over-heating routers. I would have thought that the router would have to be VERY enclosed to get overheated. After all, does it get even warm to the touch when used hand-held? Mine doesn't. I built Norm's table. Good design. I built in dust extraction at the fence and underneath, but I find that my EB HVLP dust extractor simply is not powerful enough to clear stuff from underneath. I use a shop-vac just at the fence now and that works very well, (No good for grooves of course, only edge cuts). So my router is in the BIg Box, no active air supply, although there is an inch gap at the bottom of the door and a vent out the back. No flow though, and I haven't had problems.
So if I am right, it begs the question of why routers _are_ burning out. I really am not convinced it's lack of air flow. Sure, if you block off the actual vents of the machine, maybe, but not just putting it in a big box. My own guess is that debris is more likely to be the culprit. With the router upside down I know that mine is vulnerable to stuff falling into it. Build-up of sawdust around the motor would certainly shorten its life, I'd say. I think that would do much more damage than the absence of a gale blowing through the workshop!
My ha'porth.
Cheers
Steve


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## tim (9 Dec 2004)

I agree with Steve re router burn out - it does seem strange that there is enough heat insulation in a largish cabinet to overheat a router - certainly in the less than temperate environments most of our workshops are! 

It might (apart from the debris - which I think is probably a major contributing factor) be to do with noise - or lack of it. 
I currently have an old craftsman routertable - which obviously is not ideal but the router is completely exposed - therefore noisy - so as soon as I have finished with it I turn it off - even just to get another piece of timber from the other side of the workshop (10 feet). 
I was using a mate's enclosed table the other day helping him out on a deadline and the noise was so greatly reduced that the router was left running in between pieces (Please ignore Health and Safety here - I was the only one in the workshop etc etc etc). Plus because of this noise reduction it was much more difficult to hear (and in any table - feel) when the motor was under excessive strain. So the result was that the machine was running for longer and probably used harder than it should be.

This theory may be absolute cobblers and I have no proof but I don't believe that by putting a large router in an enclosed space and using it normally, it will overheat enough to burn out. Also in the litigious US I don't think for a minute that Norm and his minions would be designing tables which could involve lawsuits for tool damage.

Thoughts?

T


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## Neil (9 Dec 2004)

Thanks, Roy & CYC  

Philly, looking forward to seeing the pics... 

Steve & Tim, I think you're probably right about the debris being the most important factor - I must admit I'm pretty careful about vacuuming the router vents after use, which hopefully will prevent any problems.

One thought on Tim's comment about leaving the router running is that I'm sure I've read somewhere that routers are designed to work under load, and can be damaged if they spend too much of their time running freely. Not sure if this is cobblers or not, presumably electronic speed control should prevent these problems? I find it pretty tedious turning the router off whilst getting another piece of timber, especially since the electric brake inherently doesn't work once you're switching the router externally.

I'm starting to think I might add a door - I've got lots of acrylic loafing around. Maybe I should biscuit-joint the frame, making my entry more valid for the competition :wink:

NeilCFD


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## Chris Knight (9 Dec 2004)

I think most (perhaps all except for the Triton and Milwaukee) routers are simply not designed to be used in router tables and many aspects of the design are therefore sub-optimal from many points of view including ease of use/adjustment but also things like bearing loads and seals (which in the free running condtion are 180 degrees different to the design condition).

Air flow is certainly affected very badly in a table and dust collects inside the router making this even worse, leading to high local temperatures.

Vacuuming a router does little in my experience. Instead compressed air should be used periodically to blow out the router. A vast amount of dust comes out of a router blown with air in this way, even after it has been vacuumed.


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## Midnight (9 Dec 2004)

*Steve wrote....*


> So if I am right, it begs the question of why routers are burning out. I really am not convinced it's lack of air flow.



Steve, if my table didn't actively demonstrate that airflow as opposed to waste management is the cause, I'd be inclined to agree with you... 
case in point...
From the get go, my table's always had dust extraction through the fence, extracted by the shop vac; this was where I left Norm's design behind... I wasn't sold on the ducted DC idea...
If I'm raising panels (for example), prior to modifying to hook up the DC, I'd be able to work for maybe 10 mins before the router became excessively hot... note I'm saying hot here... not warm... temps that you wouldn't wanna hold on to for more than a sec or two...

I subsequently added the DC mod and tried it, adding the extra holes as close to the top of the baffle as I could; running both the shop vac and the DC, I can run the router for in excess of an hour... no significant heat build up. If I don't bother to hook up the DC and just use the shop vac, I'm back to 10-15 mins running time, max... If I power down between passes I can extend this to maybe 45 mons depending on how heavy a cut I'm taking.

I think the explanation is more to do with lack of air flow to dissipate heat than insulative properties of the table; boxed in on 5 sides with me stood in front of the only open side, there's little opportunity for it to dissipate heat except to the surrounding static air... as soon as I duct air through the housing, the temperature rise is neglegable... honestly, it's as obvious as flipping a light switch....

The only time that waste build up becomes a prob is when raising panels; doesn't take too long before that housing starts to look like it's been snowing wood shavings... however there's just enough force to the air flow from the DC to keep the router clear... it builds up damn near everywhere else. There's just too much at once for the shop vac to cope with...


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## Steve Maskery (9 Dec 2004)

Hi Mike
Well that is very interesting. I wouldn't have thought it, but I guess you know your router table rather better than I do. Thanks for the input. I'll perhaps pay a bit more attention to mine int he future, although in fact, I rarely use it for extended runs.
I've bought a new 625 today, mainly for mortising, as it's too much of a pain taking my 177 in and out of the table. First job is to remake my mortising jaws with new improved stops.
Cheers
Steve


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## Neil (10 Dec 2004)

wulfric":1e2lxbcn said:


> Everything I have read about router tables always stresses the importance of flatness of the top. But the Rousseau insert that I have is slightly crowned, deliberately I believe, which sort of defeats the flatness argument doesn't it?


Wulf, I finally remembered to check this last night - with 6kg of router hung off the insert, it isn't crowned at all - in fact, if anything it is a tiny, tiny smidge the other way. Maybe it is optimised for 5kg routers :wink: 

NeilCFD


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