# John Lewis - simply the best



## Wizard9999 (14 Oct 2016)

I have always been a fan of John Lewis as I have absolute faith that they will act on any issues that arise and I know they will honour the "never knowingly undersold" pledge. But recent experience makes me think that they really must be the best retailer in the UK from a customer perspective.

SWMBO and I went to John Lewis to look at a new computer, picked one but it was out of stock but they said they were due in and they would call when they got one. On the way home SWMBO was looking to see if anyone else near us had that model in case it took longer than expected, PC World had it for £100 less. John Lewis phoned the next day to say the computer was back in stock, we told them about PC World and they were happy to match the price.

We had also looked at getting MS Office, all you get these days it seems is a little card with a code to use for download from the Internet. John Lewis sent us the card we had chosen instore. Computer arrived and SWMBO loaded up Office, disaster it didn't have one of the programmes my children need for homework, having looked at the card, that was a bit confusing, it became clear it was the wrong card. It was the same card we had looked at in store and we were charged the right price, but we had misread it. Called John Lewis to explain, not expecting much could be done. "All our fault" said the man at the end of the phone "we should understand those cards and clearly explain them to the customer". Bring the wrong card in, we'll replace it and give you a 50% discount on the one you actually need to compensate for the trouble we have caused you. Wow.

They are so good my only concern is that they can't make any money and will go belly up.

Terry.


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## finneyb (14 Oct 2016)

I always wonder if its because the staff have a share in the profits ie they have skin in the game. 

Brian


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## Phil Pascoe (14 Oct 2016)

Sounds good to me. Shame the nearest one's a two hundred mile round trip.


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## Harbo (14 Oct 2016)

They also give a 2yr warranty on their stuff too.

Rod


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## NickWelford (14 Oct 2016)

No shareholders to satisfy with short term benefits. They are not pressured to make massive profits quickly so can concentrate on long term goals. IIRC, there have only been a handful of CEO's in their 150 year history.


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## Lons (14 Oct 2016)

We always shop there whenever possible and never had a bad experience. Newcastle branch was previously Bainbridges who's policy was exactly the same We still call it Brainbridges at times.


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## Terry - Somerset (15 Oct 2016)

Also impressed with JL. The staff actually seem to know about the products they sell - something of a novelty with other retailers.

They claim never to be undersold but would happily pay a little extra for the quality of the advice.


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## RogerS (15 Oct 2016)

Pity that the excellent customer service does not extend to the numpties in their IT department that 'run' (I use the term very loosely in this context) their systems. The concept of actually understanding how people use their systems - both at JL and Waitrose - is consistently beyond their comprehension or interest in resolving and learning how to do things better. Their latest meltdown on their Partnership card 'upgrade' (stop sniggering at the back there) is a case in point.

The phrase 'Not Fit For Purpose' has never been truer when applied to their IT dept.


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## treeturner123 (15 Oct 2016)

RogerS

Have you come across an IT department that IS 'Fit for Purpose'? Whenever I've had a problem with my company computer, I always turn it off and on a couple of times before phoning, that way I know that I am as much an expert as the IT team is!!

Phil


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## RogerS (15 Oct 2016)

treeturner123":13un8iqu said:


> RogerS
> 
> Have you come across an IT department that IS 'Fit for Purpose'? Whenever I've had a problem with my company computer, I always turn it off and on a couple of times before phoning, that way I know that I am as much an expert as the IT team is!!
> 
> Phil




Yes, there are quite a few around. If there weren't then we'd be in even greater doo-doo !


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## DiscoStu (16 Oct 2016)

My wife works for JLP and they are a brilliant company with a brilliant ethos. 

Essentially their ethos is look after the staff and task the staff with looking after the customer. 

All of the staff are partners in the business and therefore they all own a bit of it and they all get an annual bonus based on the profits. 

They are also a nice company to deal with for suppliers. I have some farmers in my family and they tell tales of woe with a certain large supermarket who has been in the press recently. They agreed a deal to supply the supermarket with milk. It was agreed that they would only supply this supermarket because of competition etc and a price was agreed. After a few months the supermarket came back and said they needed to drop the price by around 40%. Obviously this was way below the cost price and the supermarket was told so but they insisted and were told it was what they would pay. Now that might sound like business but you need to remember that as a sole supplier you can't just easily start selling elsewhere and you have a product that you can't store and can't stop producing so you end up throwing it away until you can find a new buyer. Oddly they now supply Waitrose and have a fabulous relationship based on trust and openness. 

Going back to JLP they really do look after their staff, here are some of the benefits I can remember:

25% off in JLP (Except electrical where it's 12% due to the lack of margin)
15% off in Waitrose 

5 or so hotels around the county owned and run just for JLP staff to use

2 yachts that can be used by staff

Untold number of clubs to join

Around £80 a year that can be claimed for cultural enrichment. So if you go to a gig or theatre or sports event you can claim money back for your tickets up to £80 a year

Lots of free services such as solicitor and mortgage advice etc

Discount on so many things. 
Cars, Holidays, insurance, AA etc. 

Loads of deals with restaurants for discount i.e. 30% off in Frankie and Bennys, 30% off in Strada, etc etc. 

Annual profit share ie 15% of your annual salary (percentage varies each year due to profit made)

Annual events etc - Partners in the park. 

They have a suite in the O2 so anything that is on there can either be booked or if it's popular then you can enter a ballot to win a place. 

So many great things. 

My wife has worked for them for around 16 years. After 20 she gets to take 6months off on full pay to go and do whatever she fancies. They even allow staff to take up to a year off to go and do charity work etc. 

I'm not sure I've quite got all my facts and figures spot on, but you get the idea. 




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## transatlantic (16 Oct 2016)

I've never actually been to one. Mostly because whenever I they come up online as a price comparison, they are always so much more expensive. Having just looked at their website, they just look like a more expensive version of IKEA? ...am I wrong?


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## Random Orbital Bob (16 Oct 2016)

Discostu....you missed one....free fly fishing for staff on a fabulous stretch of the Test which costs the public at least £200 per day. JLP own an enormous estate there which they use for various company related activity. Have to say, their business model is a very interesting example of how investing profits in the business keeps it energetic and motivated which benefits all its stakeholders both inside and out.


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## DiscoStu (16 Oct 2016)

Oh I missed loads! National Trust membership, English Heritage etc etc. 

Never thought of John Lewis as anything like Ikea! 


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Oct 2016)

Random Orbital Bob":fww02b7v said:


> Discostu....you missed one....free fly fishing for staff on a fabulous stretch of the Test which costs the public at least £200 per day. JLP own an enormous estate there which they use for various company related activity. Have to say, their business model is a very interesting example of how investing profits in the business keeps it energetic and motivated which benefits all its stakeholders both inside and out.



They would have to pay me way more than than £200 to spend a day fishing.


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Oct 2016)

DiscoStu":223ix0nw said:


> Oh I missed loads! National Trust membership, English Heritage etc etc.
> 
> Never thought of John Lewis as anything like Ikea!
> 
> ...



I've never thought of them like an Ikea ... in fact I've never thought of them. One of the joys of living where I live - I've never seen a John Lewis - or a Waitrose - or an Ikea. :lol:


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## DiscoStu (17 Oct 2016)

phil.p":2ubc30rg said:


> They would have to pay me way more than than £200 to spend a day fishing.



Now I don't fish, in fact I've only ever been once as a child but I wouldn't need to be paid to go. I think I finally got a grip on fishing. You just need to take the fish bit out and it sounds ideal. Pop along to a nice river bank on a nice day, pop up a little shelter, add a comfy chair / bed, bring plenty of supplier inc a small stove for coffee and bacon butty and spend the day doing nothing. Oh and remember to stick a pole out so it looks like you're trying to catch fish. 

Sounds like a very pleasant way to spend the day, as long as I didn't have to deal with any wet slippery fish or put smelly dead fish in my car.


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## AndyT (17 Oct 2016)

phil.p":1qkvsw0n said:


> DiscoStu":1qkvsw0n said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I missed loads! National Trust membership, English Heritage etc etc.
> ...




But what about

johnlewis.com
waitrose.com
ikea.co.uk

I know that the Internet reaches Cornwall!

Happy shopping, Phil.


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## DrPhill (17 Oct 2016)

DiscoStu":27146w4m said:


> phil.p":27146w4m said:
> 
> 
> > They would have to pay me way more than than £200 to spend a day fishing.
> ...



+1

When I was young I invented the sport of 'unfishing'. The idea is to use your skill to _avoid_ catching fish. Beginners could leave the hook off the line, intermediates could use a hook but no bait, and experts could use bait, and even place it in parts of the river/lake where there were likely to be fish. The best proponents of the sport could dangle the bait right next to a fish and whip it out just as the fish goes to eat it......

Yeah, sit by a river and do nothing all day. Works for me as long as I do not have to talk about fishing.


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## Inoffthered (19 Oct 2016)

Wizard9999":31263mjz said:


> They are so good my only concern is that they can't make any money and will go belly up.
> 
> Terry.



If you ever see the standard JL supply agreement you would know that they will never go bust, but they may run out of companies prepared to be shafted to supply them.
Their terms are brutal and as well as squeezing on price they also:-
deduct 2% as a contribution to marketing costs (based on gross value before any other JL deductions), 
there are 5% penalties for any late deliveries, 
JL have the right to discount prices and pass the discount straight on to the supplier (so the "never knowingly undersold" thing is not a cost to JL as any rebate given to a customer is deducted from the next payment made to the supplier. 
Suppliers are lucky if you get paid 60 days after their invoice...and JL deduct a 3% settlement discount regardless of when they make payment.
Suppliers are also obliged to give JL rebates each year depending on the gross value of supplies.
For any faulty items returned by customers JL recover the full value (not cost) from the supplier and levy a raft of other charges.

I appreciate that retail stores need to make a profit but their treatment of suppliers is appalling and having seen how they are treated I have stopped using JL and associated stores.


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## Ian down london way (19 Oct 2016)

Wow.

Do other stores do similar things?

(I've been a supporter of JL, from a customer experience perspective, but what you say is sobering)


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## whiskywill (19 Oct 2016)

Wizard9999":1qwplbie said:


> PC World had it for £100 less. John Lewis phoned the next day to say the computer was back in stock, we told them about PC World and they were happy to match the price.



Surely that is evidence that they were ripping you off in the first place. They couldn't afford to price match if they are losing on the sale.


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## Inoffthered (19 Oct 2016)

Ian down london way":3f6w4nyf said:


> Wow.
> 
> Do other stores do similar things?
> 
> (I've been a supporter of JL, from a customer experience perspective, but what you say is sobering)



A few years ago I seem to recall that Wickes caused outrage when they suggested that their suppliers pay a six figure "contribution" in order to stay on their approved supplier list. ASDA and others lost public support when it became clear that they were using milk as a loss leader but forcing UK dairy famers to accept less than cost because they could import cheap milk from europe

I daresay that the buying departments of all chain stores seek to maximise their advantage but having seen the JL supplier agreement, it certainly changed my view of the company.


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## Phil Pascoe (19 Oct 2016)

whiskywill":2vooclh6 said:


> Wizard9999":2vooclh6 said:
> 
> 
> > PC World had it for £100 less. John Lewis phoned the next day to say the computer was back in stock, we told them about PC World and they were happy to match the price.
> ...



They probably can - even if they make the occasional loss on a sale, it's a whole load of publicity and goodwill. It's undoubtedly very carefully weighed out against their huge advertising costs.


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## DiscoStu (20 Oct 2016)

I think most of those are fairly standard terms. Although the discount one is possibly unique to JLP, but seems to be fair? If you're a company the size of JLP you don't expect someone else to get a better deal on say TV's so it would be reasonable to expect the same discounts. That price gets passed onto the customer so it's not like JLP are profiteering from that policy. They're just ensuring it's fair. Let's not forget that companies aren't forced to supply JLP, so if they don't like the terms then don't sell to them. I know two people who supply JLP and both have said that they are nice to work with, sure they want a fair deal but they don't screw their suppliers to the floor. 


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## RogerS (20 Oct 2016)

DiscoStu":1qzkmgrd said:


> I think most of those are fairly standard terms. Although the discount one is possibly unique to JLP, but seems to be fair? If you're a company the size of JLP you don't expect someone else to get a better deal on say TV's so it would be reasonable to expect the same discounts. That price gets passed onto the customer so it's not like JLP are profiteering from that policy. They're just ensuring it's fair. Let's not forget that companies aren't forced to supply JLP, so if they don't like the terms then don't sell to them. I know two people who supply JLP and both have said that they are nice to work with, sure they want a fair deal but they don't screw their suppliers to the floor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I've also heard similar talking to local farmers who supply Waitrose and are very positive of their dealings with them.


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## Inoffthered (20 Oct 2016)

DiscoStu":3avfq1g4 said:


> Let's not forget that companies aren't forced to supply JLP, so if they don't like the terms then don't sell to them. I know two people who supply JLP and both have said that they are nice to work with, sure they want a fair deal but they don't screw their suppliers to the floor.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Absolutely, no one is forced to do business with JL and my clients decided that they would not supply them. 

I dont agree with the comment that their policy "is fair" because if you think about it, it isn't., What JL are doing is agreeing a price when it buys but also retain the right to retrospectively adjust that price downwards to support their "never knowingly undersold" policy. A competing retailer may decide to reduce a selling price and reduce its margin and if JL follow suit they pass the cost of that onto the supplier. What's fair about that? 

I am pleased your friends are happy with their relationship with JL, my clients found other routes to market that preserved their margins and gives certainty when they make a sale. They breathe a sigh of relief when they think how close they came to signing up to them.


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## DiscoStu (20 Oct 2016)

It's fair because they agree a price but why should someone who is more aggressive with their negotiating get a better deal? You know the terms you accept them or you don't. 


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## Inoffthered (20 Oct 2016)

DiscoStu":27m2jopf said:


> It's fair because they agree a price but why should someone who is more aggressive with their negotiating get a better deal? You know the terms you accept them or you don't.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 

You assume that buying departments in other stores get a better deal,(which may or may not be true) the fact is that if a competing store chain decide to discount a stock item and reduce their margins, JL will match that price reduction but at the suppliers expense. 

You say they "agree a price" but they effectively reserve the right to reduce that price at any time in the future. 

You are correct though in that suppliers enter into a supply agreement with JL with their eyes open so it is entirely their choice. The interesting by-product of supplying JL is that having demonstrated an acceptance of marketing contributions, settlement discounts, rebates etc, it can make negotiations with other chains challenging because they know what the suppliers have already given away.


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## cutting42 (20 Oct 2016)

It's an ugly vicious world out there in retail land. Ever wondered why the high street is dead and why small traders are dying in their thousands. It is not the fault of JL, Asda, Tesco or even Amazon but the insatiable beast of the price conscious consumer.

All you folks out there looking for the best price on everything, it's you doing this. Sure there are some dodgy companies and big bosses but they only do it because they know if they are the cheapest, the punters will come running.

I don't work in retail but have been in B2B sales most of my life and deal daily with the very professional procurement departments of some of the biggest companies in the world. The above stuff detailed about JL, is kids play. If all I had to deal with was that, I would have a much easier life as a supplier.

Sadly we live in a world where the old adage "know the price of everything but the value of nothing" rules.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Oct 2016)

Well I have mixed feeling about JL. Their customer service is good. Very good. But TBH I am no longer enamoured by the quality of their products.

When I moved into this house I bought a JL tumble dryer. About a year ago it stopped drying my clothes and started making a funny noise. I rang JL, brilliant service, they had my details in a flash and arranged for it to be visited by a service engineer. His Diagnosis was "That doesn't sound good", which was exactly what I'd told the JL person, and he took it away to fix it. I was without it, IIRC for about 6 weeks.

When it came back it was obviously a different machine, internally at least, as it sang to me when it was done. So far so good.

I've not used it for months, of course, and yesterday I switched it on to finish off dome damp stuff that I'd had outside until it started to rain. Today I took it out to find that it was as damp as when I put it in. Perhaps I'd forgotten to switch it on? No, another cycle this evening and it is still damp.

So another call to JL. CS are open but not the warranty department. So I have to ring again tomorrow.

Fortunately this has a 3-year warranty. It was delivered on Nov 4th, so I still have a couple of weeks, just.

It's not like there is a house full of kids here and the thing is on every day. Not impressed, really.


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Oct 2016)

If the thing had been on every day it probably wouldn't have gone wrong.


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## Steve Maskery (21 Oct 2016)

Maybe, maybe.
Actually the Very Nice Gentleman suggested I switched it off and switched it back on again as well as checked the filters. Well the filters were fine, I do clean them regularly, but I did reboot it and lo and behold, it's working again!
I appear to have a Windows Tumble Dryer.


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## Phil Pascoe (21 Oct 2016)

Ah ... so it'll be programmed to go wrong in fifteen days time?


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## DiscoStu (21 Oct 2016)

Any company can have an issue it's how they deal with it that's important. We bought a Miele washing machine from JLP. Within a week it was making some odd sounds. Two engineers turned up, but covers on the floor to put their tool bags down etc. Sorted the issue. Have us some free washing machine cleaner. Also did a full electrical check etc. Excellent service. Now that was a Miele machine with a 10 year warranty which is meant to be super reliable so anyone can have an issue. JLP obviously don't make their own brand. For washing machines they use AEG Group, so AEG, and Zanussi silly person remember correctly. 


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## Steve Maskery (3 Nov 2016)

Well I've just come to use my tumble drier and it's stopped working again. No heat and it's making a funny buzzing noise again.

So at 16.40 I ring up and speak to Very Nice Lady, who politely tells me that today is the last day of the warranty, so we'd better get it moving. Five minutes later I have an engineer booked for tomorrow morning.

It doesn't get much better service than that, does it?


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## DiscoStu (3 Nov 2016)

Well it's good that you phoned when you did but as you say excellent service. 


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## RogerS (3 Nov 2016)

Steve Maskery":3fikm9qk said:


> ....
> 
> It doesn't get much better service than that, does it?



And which is why JL still top the polls for customer service.


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## YorkshireMartin (4 Nov 2016)

Steve Maskery":2q34gh49 said:


> Well I've just come to use my tumble drier and it's stopped working again. No heat and it's making a funny buzzing noise again.
> 
> So at 16.40 I ring up and speak to Very Nice Lady, who politely tells me that today is the last day of the warranty, so we'd better get it moving. Five minutes later I have an engineer booked for tomorrow morning.
> 
> It doesn't get much better service than that, does it?



If you use Amazon durex dash buttons, in the small print they state that you're guaranteed a happy ending, so it's hard to be sure.


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## Steve Maskery (4 Nov 2016)

Engineer turned up this morning. No fault logged by the machine itself.

"Haven't we come out to this before?" Er, yes.

"I can hear the refrigerant bubbling. It's not a happy bunny, is it?"

Sounds like it is the compressor, which is what went last time. But rather than taking it away for 6 weeks, this time he is going to book a two-man slot and rebuild it in my conservatory.

Good job I rang when I did.


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## Wizard9999 (6 Nov 2016)

It does sound like you unfortunately got a 'Friday built' machine there Steve, but JLP doing a good job. After the rebuild I would be tempted to enquire as to what sort of warranty there is on the repair. I speak from no experience, but even if the original 3 year warranty has run out there may be some sort of period of guarantee on the repair work.

Terry.

P.S. Also have a Miele (separate washer and drier), had them for 11 years now and have seen a lot of service with the kids combined with UK weather. Brilliant machines, but I do worry that the passing of time will mean that when we do come to replace the next ones will not be as well made after some finance guys have been looking to strip some cost out.


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## lurker (7 Nov 2016)

To misquote Martin Luther King:

The ultimate measure of a company is not where they stand in moments of comfort and convenience, but where they stand at times when their products fail.


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## Random Orbital Bob (7 Nov 2016)

I rate John Lewis very highly and there's no doubt in my mind that their business model is the driver behind the success, behind the culture specifically. Having no "shareholder value" to turn staff into robots, rather a profit share where everybody wins is a lot more motivating than making some "fat rich bloke" even more rich!


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## Steve Maskery (8 Nov 2016)

Fan-bloomin'-tastic.
Just had a call from their service company. My TD has been deemed to be beyond economical repair and they are replacing it. Not quite the same model, but the equivalent, same specs. Or I can have a JL voucher and go shopping for something else. And, because it is a new machine, I get a new 3-year warranty to boot.
Now is that good or is that good?

Next q. Can I use the old motor for something useful in the workshop?


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## Random Orbital Bob (8 Nov 2016)

Yes......a gizmo for riddling compost and/or soil so only the right sized particles come through. If you make it, I'll buy it! It has to be able to quickly fill a wheelbarrow without my back being broken!


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## selectortone (8 Nov 2016)

Steve Maskery":1ogkyb4f said:


> Fan-bloomin'-tastic.
> Just had a call from their service company. My TD has been deemed to be beyond economical repair and they are replacing it. Not quite the same model, but the equivalent, same specs. Or I can have a JL voucher and go shopping for something else. And, because it is a new machine, I get a new 3-year warranty to boot.
> Now is that good or is that good?
> 
> Next q. Can I use the old motor for something useful in the workshop?



I think you'd have to try very hard to find better customer service than that.


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## Steve Maskery (8 Nov 2016)

I have to say, that after several years of life dealing me a curve ball, to have a stroke of luck like this is very smile-inducing.


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## Racers (8 Nov 2016)

Excellent news Steve.

Pete


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## DiscoStu (8 Nov 2016)

Well done JLP! This is why I love them. 


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## Myfordman (8 Nov 2016)

Steve Maskery":30k4ufv6 said:


> Next q. Can I use the old motor for something useful in the workshop?



Usually these motor are open frame and so a bit vulnerable for general purpose use.
Make sure you retrieve the starter switch relay and the capacitor. The starter on TD is quite often a current operated relay with gravity return on the contact so it has to be mounted the right way up mechanically.
The coil is in series with the run winding, and when the motor is below running speed (or stopped) the excessive current drawn by the run winding, closes the relay contacts and connects the capacitor and start winding into the circuit. Once the motor is up to speed the current drops and the relay opens. 
This method is also used for fridge compressors where a centrifugal switch inside the pressure pot would be awkward to say the least. Quite why TDs use this method is a mystery to me but lots of them do.

hth
Bob


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## Steve Maskery (8 Nov 2016)

Hi Bob, I was hoping you would chip in 
I think I shall probably strip it of every useful nut and bolt and then leave it out on the pavement. I have no doubt that it will disappear within a nanosecond!
S


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