# Paul Sellers workbench



## thomashenry (25 Jun 2018)

Just finished my Paul Sellers design workbench, having followed his course on YouTube. Made entirely from hand tools apart from a cordless drill. Timber was a mix of PSE from Wickes and reclaimed wood from Oxford Wood Recycling. Think in total I paid £65 for the wood. Vise was £70 or so, and is an Eclipse 9” quick release.

Very happy with it, and fully recommend making this bench if you are into hand tool woodworking.


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## Tasky (25 Jun 2018)

Ready to rock!!


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## custard (25 Jun 2018)

Congratulations, that looks like a really tidy, professional job.


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## thomashenry (25 Jun 2018)

Thanks! It's a great series of videos by Paul Sellers.


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## thetyreman (26 Jun 2018)

nice job!

I built the mk1 version as my first major project, his newer mk2 design is even better still, it's a great bench.


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## Jacob (26 Jun 2018)

Most benches you see nowadays are desperate fashion victims. 
Good to see that traditional highly functional bench design is still alive and well! 
If it was mine I'd set the vice flush with the apron so that the whole of the apron works as vice face to some extent.
An option is to extend a planted-on inner vice face to the full depth of the apron, to give good support to things held vertically


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## thomashenry (26 Jun 2018)

I did spend a fair amount of time thinking about that. At one stage I was going to set the inner face of the vise behind the apron, but I figured that it's easy enough to make a spacer that hooks over the benchtop and then hangs down over the front apron, flush with the inner face of the vise.


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## MusicMan (26 Jun 2018)

I think this depends on the type of work you do. I had a flush vice for maybe 60 years. But I rarely hold long planks. Most of my work is on musical instruments and restoration. The extra flexibility to hold odd shapes with bits sticking out is for me a big advantage of the offset face, which I now love, after using it for a couple of years. And as said, a spacer to use on long pieces is easy to do. If you are holding long bits most days, as Jacob may be doing, a flush vice makes more sense.

It's horses for courses, not one-size-fits-all.


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## Osvaldd (9 Apr 2019)

Im looking to build a workbench this summer. Can't decide whether to go with PS design.
Couple questions, did you modify/add anything since building this? There are no bench dogs nor a tail vice in his design, do you not miss those when planing the faces of long boards?

I like the tool well, but what about when you need to plane large panels? As per PS design the solid worktop is only 12" wide, how would you deal with very wide pieces?

The only other thing is I would like to incorporate a bottom shelve to store tools for quick access.


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## Jacob (9 Apr 2019)

Osvaldd":1305bqu3 said:


> Im looking to build a workbench this summer. Can't decide whether to go with PS design.
> Couple questions, did you modify/add anything since building this? There are no bench dogs nor a tail vice in his design, do you not miss those when planing the faces of long boards?


For planing boards you only need one dog at the left hand end (assuming you are right handed). Mine's a 30mm square rod tight fit in a hole - sticks down below so I can knock it up with a mallet. If you don't have a tail vice you won't miss it. I'm not really sure what they are for TBH, except as an extra vice - I've got one on the other side of my bench.


> I like the tool well, but what about when you need to plane large panels? As per PS design the solid worktop is only 12" wide, how would you deal with very wide pieces?


They rest across to the far side, or just plonk an mdf board or similar over the whole top as necessary. Much better to have a tool well than not - most of what you do will be on the front edge of the bench and having a well is really handy for tools, shavings, reducing clutter, keeping working surface clear, etc etc.


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## Stanleymonkey (9 Apr 2019)

Looks amazing - well done mate.

I get the Oxford Wood Recycling emails and wish I was a bit closer to them. Are they worth a detour next time I'm driving past?


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## G S Haydon (16 Apr 2019)

Good bit of practical woodworking there. You clearly have the knack.


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## woodbloke66 (20 Apr 2019)

Nice job on the bench, looks a cracker, but why anyone would want to build in a front apron beats me. I know it's traditional, I know it will add a bit of mass and I know it will help to prevent the dreaded 'racking' etc (<which covers everything else) Wait though, until you need to use G or F cramps to secure something to the top as I do almost every time I use my bench. You'll find it's almost impossible.
Make the top thick enough and you don't need an apron. 
Tool wells are excellent whichever way you slices it - Rob


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## Osvaldd (22 Apr 2019)

@woodbloke66 would you care to tell us more about your bench? few photos. Im looking to build a bench and I too don’t like that big front apron.


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## MikeG. (22 Apr 2019)

woodbloke66":285hjb15 said:


> Nice job on the bench, looks a cracker, but why anyone would want to build in a front apron beats me. I know it's traditional, I know it will add a bit of mass and I know it will help to prevent the dreaded 'racking' etc (<which covers everything else) Wait though, until you need to use G or F cramps to secure something to the top as I do almost every time I use my bench. You'll find it's almost impossible.
> Make the top thick enough and you don't need an apron.
> Tool wells are excellent whichever way you slices it - Rob



That's a slightly odd argument, Rob, if I may say so. It's sort-of the equivalent of saying "I've got this fancy new carbon fibre racing bike, and it's no good because I can't ride it wearing wellies". You are wanting to use clamps for the job normally done by holdfasts. If you have a bench with the traditional apron, then you use the traditional way of holding work: holdfasts, not clamps. You're actually arguing that an apron is no good because it stops you using the wrong piece of kit on the bench.

The point is that if you want to use clamps, then have a bench without an apron. If you want a bench with an apron, you don't suffer any disadvantage whatsoever because you simply use the tool designed for the purpose, the holdfast.

-

The thickness of the top has no bearing on the job done by the apron. The apron's principle role is to act as bracing between the top and the legs, so that the bench doesn't rack under horizontal load (such as when planing). If you eliminate the apron, you'll need something else to do the bracing job, which can be a diagonal brace, or a sheet of ply.


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Apr 2019)

You can't please all of the people all of the time. Mine has no apron and no well - I wouldn't go back to either. It has the reversible strip down through the middle that I can use flat, raised as a stop or removed for clamping stuff down. And yes, I use holdfasts.  That it doesn't suit other people doesn't matter to me one iota.


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## Jacob (22 Apr 2019)

> .... until you need to use G or F cramps to secure something to the top as I do almost every time I use my bench....


Most workpieces can be worked on the top with no holding, but not if biggish and held in the vice against the apron - that's when/where you really need the g clamps.
 Big front apron is highly functional; 
adds mass behind the front beam where it's needed (most work is done on the front few inches of the top)
prevents racking (the legs are housed into the back of the apron)
functions as a large extended back to the vice (if fitted flush) and helps support big pieces
can have any number of g clamps, pegs, nails added to hold pieces; stuff doesn't always need holding much on the top itself as the workpiece will sit there unaided but being able to support big/long things held in the vice is really useful.
NB there's a big fashion for "continental" style benches but virtually all trad woodwork in UK at least, when it was a big industry, was done on the tried and tested trad bench with a big apron, like Sellers'.


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## dzj (22 Apr 2019)

If you grind away the rivet at the end of the bar, you can use an F clamp through a dog hole even on a
Nicholson type bench.


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## woodbloke66 (22 Apr 2019)

Osvaldd":2h76uwh5 said:


> @woodbloke66 would you care to tell us more about your bench? few photos. Im looking to build a bench and I too don’t like that big front apron.



Absolutely...pics below



MikeG.":2h76uwh5 said:


> That's a slightly odd argument, Rob, if I may say so. It's sort-of the equivalent of saying "I've got this fancy new carbon fibre racing bike, and it's no good because I can't ride it wearing wellies". You are wanting to use clamps for the job normally done by holdfasts. If you have a bench with the traditional apron, then you use the traditional way of holding work: holdfasts, not clamps. You're actually arguing that an apron is no good because it stops you using the wrong piece of kit on the bench.
> 
> The point is that if you want to use clamps, then have a bench without an apron. If you want a bench with an apron, you don't suffer any disadvantage whatsoever because you simply use the tool designed for the purpose, the holdfast.
> 
> ...



I think what we're discussing here Mike, are the differences between the traditional joiners bench, of which the OP has made such a cracking job and the traditional Emir cabinet makers bench which is what I modelled mine on, with some subtle improvements. I used one of those benches for four years at Shoreditch College in the 70's and they were severely used and much abused by us students; note there's no apron and they didn't rack, ever. Look also at the construction; the lower long rails are draw bolted with the bolt itself going through the tenon and the 50mm thick top is bolted directly onto the frame, with allowance made for movement.

I built mine along the same plan; it's traditional and it works but I made mine with a 75mm thick top. In addition, just to make dead sure that the thing would never, ever rack (and it doesn't, ever) I incorporated a third long draw bolted rail at the top of the frame....






Note the removable tool well bottom, which means I can cramp stuff to the top from the tool well side as well. Very, *very* useful.

Being able to cramp stuff to the top of the bench is just so useful it beggars belief why anyone interested in doing fine cabinet work would want to construct their bench with an apron. Just four swift examples of why it's so useful:






My jig for paring dovetail pins and sockets dead square; an adaption from Rob Ingham's method. Very difficult to do with a deep front apron, note the use of the bench holdfast.






This is Rob Ingham's dovetail transfer jig; very hard to cramp with a very deep front apron, but it could be clamped using the front dogs.






Cramping the Moxxon style vice to the top; invaluable for cutting wide dovetails etc and designed to be securely clamped to the top.






Cramping a shooting board with mitre shoot to the top.

IMO, a bench with a deep apron is a distinct disadvantage and one built without one makes the whole bench far more user friendly. It's possible, I will concede, that each of the above examples could be cramped to a deep front apron with something like a small sash cramp, but it just makes life a lot easier and a lot more simple to build one without a deep apron. Simples works  - Rob


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## custard (22 Apr 2019)

The popularity of the traditional Nicholson style bench began to wane with the widespread adoption of the powered router. I don't believe that's a co-incidence.

One of the most common processes I (and pretty much every cabinet maker I know) perform at the bench is copy routing to a template. Where the template and roughly band sawn workpiece are fastened with F-Cramps, overhanging the front of the bench like this,






You could do the job at the router table or spindle moulder, but that's more of a faff. Quickest and easiest is right at your bench.

That's the key reason against a Nicholson style bench.


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## Jacob (22 Apr 2019)

custard":17z4o6k3 said:


> .......
> You could do the job at the router table or spindle moulder, but that's more of a faff. Quickest and easiest is right at your bench.
> 
> That's the key reason against a Nicholson style bench.


Not really. Easy enough to make a few holes in the apron if you really want to use your bench with F clamps that way, but there are many other ways of doing the same thing - a holdfast for starters . But a table would do for routing - a big sturdy bench not necessary.
The key reason is just fashion IMHO. The trad bench barely features in the various well known modern bench books and it's only because a bench by Nicholson features in one of them that it is now known as the "Nicholson" bench. Nobody had heard of him or his bench in the old days, unless they were into woodwork history - in which case they would also be well aware of the trad bench design common before the fashion kicked off, as they feature in most of the old books - just known as "woodwork bench".


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Apr 2019)

Jacob":4bjha6vx said:


> The trad bench barely features in the various well known bench books ...


Probably because it isn't necessarily the best - it has as many minuses as pluses.


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## custard (22 Apr 2019)

Jacob":1rbg7ure said:


> Not really. Easy enough to make a few holes in the apron if you really want to use your bench with F clamps that way.



That's not going to work. 

You'd need a bloody big hole in the apron to get the F-Cramp handle through (no one wants the handle sticking up in the air where it'll interfere with the router) plus you'd need loads of these whopper holes as every template is different.


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## Jacob (22 Apr 2019)

It would take a few minutes improvisation to hold down the work on trad bench, if you didn't have a holdfast. Not enough reason to re-design the whole bench for this one function and not that many people rout around templates.
A version of the trad bench here, they were universal in factories, workshops, training establishments


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## woodbloke66 (22 Apr 2019)

custard":1vc08su0 said:


> The popularity of the traditional Nicholson style bench began to wane with the widespread adoption of the powered router. I don't believe that's a co-incidence.
> 
> One of the most common processes I (and pretty much every cabinet maker I know) perform at the bench is copy routing to a template. Where the template and roughly band sawn workpiece are fastened with F-Cramps, overhanging the front of the bench like this,
> 
> ...



Yet another example of why it's just so useful to be able to cramp directly to the bench - Rob


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## Setch (22 Apr 2019)

I've got a traditional style bench with deep aprons (ex uni woodwork dept circa 1950s), and I hold stuff to it with clamps all the time - using cheap and cheerful long f-clamps.

IIRC they were from B&Q, and cost £15 for 2 x 300mm, 2 x 450mm and a bunch of plastic spring clamps.


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## Jacob (22 Apr 2019)

Setch":2vhr4pyr said:


> I've got a traditional style bench with deep aprons (ex uni woodwork dept circa 1950s), and I hold stuff to it with clamps all the time - using cheap and cheerful long f-clamps.
> 
> IIRC they were from B&Q, and cost £15 for 2 x 300mm, 2 x 450mm and a bunch of plastic spring clamps.


Smart thinking! Instead of redesigning the bench get longer clamps! :lol: 
I think benches have gone the way of sharpening - highly effective trad solutions have been forgotten written out of the books and mags by the new boys who know no better (and are trying to sell stuff). The basic trick is to present a "solution" to something which the innocent beginner does not know is not really a problem.


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## Bodgers (22 Apr 2019)

woodbloke66":1vcqmpsr said:


> Nice job on the bench, looks a cracker, but why anyone would want to build in a front apron beats me. I know it's traditional, I know it will add a bit of mass and I know it will help to prevent the dreaded 'racking' etc (<which covers everything else) Wait though, until you need to use G or F cramps to secure something to the top as I do almost every time I use my bench. You'll find it's almost impossible.
> Make the top thick enough and you don't need an apron.
> Tool wells are excellent whichever way you slices it - Rob


You can still use them on the ends. I actually use them on the apron as well; my apron is fairly thick so you can clamp from the top to the bottom of the apron.

The apron comes in handy for longer work pieces whereby you can you a holdfast on one end and the vice in the other, so it does have some utility other than just adding strength.




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## Phil Pascoe (22 Apr 2019)

No one doubting its uses, just saying that depending on the type of work you do it can be an advantage not to have one. I can't think a single thing that a apron would allow me to do on mine that I can't do without one, but there are things that are much easier done without one. I have "Spur" type shelving supports let into the right hand leg and a moving dead man which allow me to support anything large or long.


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## MikeG. (22 Apr 2019)

Bodgers":13nxb208 said:



> ......I actually use them on the apron as well; my apron is fairly thick so you can clamp from the top to the bottom of the apron.........



I planted a batten on the inside under edge of my apron so I can clamp to it. That's an extremely rare occurrence these days, however.


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## G S Haydon (22 Apr 2019)

I have my scones with cream first, some prefer the jam first. Most seem able to eat them whichever way they are put together  

On benches, the nice thing about the bench with aprons is that it can be very fast to build. The OP has done a superb job on his. It can be done cheaper, quicker and just as effectively using a construction similar to Mike Siemsen features on his DVD (never seen it but just looking at it and you can tell it's quick).

I'll wager the OP will have many happy years woodworking without having to worry too much about apron vs no apron, flush vs non flush vice, quick release vs leg vice, holdfast vs clamp :?


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## Phil Pascoe (22 Apr 2019)

Of course. The other thing you can wager is that if he ever makes another one it'll be different. :lol:


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## Richard49 (8 Oct 2019)

I'm new here and and would love to make this bench but am having problems finding a source for the 70mm x 95mm legs as suppliers such as Wickes don't do timber that size.

Did you laminate several pieces of timber to get the required size for the legs or?

I used to be a toolmaker but have never had the space in my garden for a workshop; I do now, just got a 10' x 12' foot shed/workshop that I'm going to fit out shortly.

I'm used to working in different metals but always wanted to work in wood.


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## Bodgers (8 Oct 2019)

Richard49":32q78rdv said:


> I'm new here and and would love to make this bench but am having problems finding a source for the 70mm x 95mm legs as suppliers such as Wickes don't do timber that size.
> 
> Did you laminate several pieces of timber to get the required size for the legs or?
> 
> ...


Yes. That's what is explained in the build videos. Laminating is preferably anyway as you gain extra resistance to wood movement.



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## Richard49 (8 Oct 2019)

I must have missed that bit... doooooh (hangs head in shame)

Thanks


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