# An idea to prototype/manufacture



## NewbieRaf (24 May 2021)

Hey All

Without getting into the details I have an idea (small bracket) with technical drawings that I would like to get prototyped/manufactured in the UK but I am not too sure where to start or who to approach. Im a total newbie at this and was wondering if anyone had any recommendations or could point me in the right direction.

Thanks


----------



## marcros (24 May 2021)

start with some none disclosure agreements. 

Is it a single object, or made up of parts? At this stage I would spread them around a bit so that nobody has any idea what you are producing. 

it is hard to offer much advice without knowing outline details, but could you make a prototype using hand tools yourself? it doesn't need to be an efficient way of doing it, just enough to test the concept. 3d printing possibly?


----------



## NewbieRaf (24 May 2021)

Thanks @marcros. When you say spread them round a bit - what do you mean? Do you mean find a few manufacturers?

Good point re 3d printing. The clamp needs to be ideally high strength Alu or stainless steel (tubing), I have no clue how to weld so making something like this would be a struggle.


----------



## marcros (24 May 2021)

All I meant was to find somebody to make the clamp, somebody else to make the frame, somebody else for the cover, etc. Then nobody can work out what you are making.

There is a lot to this, and it is different if you are looking to patent the idea.


----------



## NewbieRaf (24 May 2021)

ahh gotcha thanks. Any ideas where I would start to finding places that could potentially help?


----------



## eribaMotters (24 May 2021)

Just drive around your local industrial estates and I'm sure you will find small engineering set-ups prepared to take onboard a small job.

Colin


----------



## marcros (24 May 2021)

I would break it down into what you need- is it fabrication, machining etc. There are likely lots of local firms or individuals around that would do small jobs, it is knowing what to look for.


----------



## profchris (24 May 2021)

It helps to know your commercialisation ambitions. Basically three questions:

1. Who would sell this? Your business, or do you want to persuade some other business to take it on.

2. Who would make it? Depends a lot on the answer to (1).

3. Once it starts selling, is it at risk from copycat versions? Commercially, I mean - I've improvised devices for a particular aspect of making musical instruments which would not be worth copying, no matter how clever they were (they weren't), because the market is minuscule. If so, taking steps to keep your device confidential (via non-disclosure and use agreements) is an important first step, and then you need to think about financing the process of protecting your intellectual property rights (this runs from tens of thousands upwards, depending on the device). Financing probably helps answer (1).

If, let's say, your device will revolutionise shelf brackets, making 50% of what's out there redundant, then it's a big bucks project and needs big bucks financing. Your prototype maker needs to be someone you trust - if a local small shop makes it for you, and some employee sells the idea, they don't have the assets to compensate you no matter what agreements they signed. Plus, the brand name you approach might well refuse to sign a confidentiality agreement in case they are currently working on something similar. Navigating the big bucks financing maze is tricky!

OTOH, if it's a niche market device which would make a nice small business for you, you might be better off retaining your market by making it better/more attractive/cheaper than the potential competition. IP rights protection might just be too expensive to worry about. In which case, the small engineering shop down the road is where to go for your prototype.


----------



## NewbieRaf (24 May 2021)

thank you all for the detailed info, I think for now as this is by no means life-changing the small engineering shop will do - - just need to find them. Im not too worried about IP, maybe NDA if its successful.


----------



## Droogs (24 May 2021)

First thing get your IP rights locked down and use a patent lawyer to do the needed checks to see if it's already been done. Then take to a cnc shop and have them make parts. prove concept and patent


----------



## marcros (24 May 2021)

Droogs said:


> First thing get your IP rights locked down and use a patent lawyer to do the needed checks to see if it's already been done. Then take to a cnc shop and have them make parts. prove concept and patent



you will need deep pockets for much of that so make sure that the market needs the invention before you spend much. 

there was a book recommended on here called "a better mousetrap" which I keep meaning to buy and read. Support and Guidance for Inventors may be a decent place to start for a fiver.


----------



## TFrench (24 May 2021)

PM me some (loose) details if you want - it might be something I can make, or I will probably know someone who can.


----------



## deema (24 May 2021)

I always remember when I had a dispute with an automotive manufacturer about intellectual property, the guy I was negotiating with took me outside and pointed to a large multi-storey building. He said, that’s our Iegal team, the whole building. We don’t care about winning only burying you in expense fighting your case. We never give up, they are all sunk cost, so how deep are your pockets, and for how many years do you care about it enough to continue to fight? We agreed…..or I conceded enough!
A patent or IP is only worth how much you can spend defending it.


----------



## shed9 (25 May 2021)

Try speaking to your local business support and pitch the same level of details above. Tell them you specifically require innovation support. Make sure this is local or central government associated (not consultants at this stage) and take a steer from that. Depending on where you are in the country you may be able to access IP advice / searches / development costs.

I suspect IP protection is likely irrelevant but that ultimately depends on your idea. As others have said, a small local engineering firm will be a good starting point.


----------



## baldkev (25 May 2021)

As above, its tricky and costly to patent. Pre pandemic you could get an appointment with a patent adviser through your local library! I forget what they called the service but im sure google will help....


----------



## profchris (25 May 2021)

A single patent is in practice almost worthless, unless you have the resources to enforce it vigorously. I was once involved in a piece of patent litigation where the legal costs were estimated at £0.5m per side (not surprisingly, they did a deal instead). The main use of patents is to build up a portfolio covering various aspects of your technology (Apple's iPhone is a good example) and then use these to partition the market and do deals. This is for the big boys only.

A single patent might be useful in licensing your device to a big manufacturer/brand, because it would add to their portfolio and they have the resources to enforce it or at lest threaten to do so. But it's not much practical use to a small firm who wants to make and sell the thing themselves.


----------



## shed9 (25 May 2021)

Kind of related but a little tangential, there is a huge rise in random patent challenges going on these days. There are multiple individuals / organisations that randomly challenge patent owners (companies generally) for the right to their own legally established IP with spurious accusations that it copies or violates in part or in full the intellectual rights of another entity. It basically plays to the law of averages in that for some people and organisations it is far more economical to pay off / settle the accusation than to counter challenge regardless of the validity of the challenge itself; the legal fees would dwarf the settlement effectively. We had seen this gain momentum in most global territories although I must admit I've not kept abreast of it since COVID.


----------



## Our Jim (26 May 2021)

I work in new product development. We generally only put data out for prototyping with suppliers we have NDAs (non disclosure agreements) in place with. That said, if we were ever making stuff that was particularly commercially sensitive for some reason we would do as others have suggested on here and have different suppliers make different bits so that could work for you. If you’re considering an NDA it would need to be in place before you release data / drawings, not taken out afterwards.
Any reason you want to make these parts in the UK specifically? From purely a cost point of view, you might consider an offshore supplier. Our firm make most stuff in house or using local prototyping / engineering houses but sometimes if time is not such a factor or we’re making lots of the same parts or very large parts it can be much more cost effective to use e.g. a Chinese supplier. Quality of parts including machined parts is very high. Same rule would apply though, use different suppliers for different parts (particularly important in China).

If you do just want names for UK suppliers, do you mind where they are based in the UK and can you specify what processes you need to make your parts? E.g. CNC Machining, sheet metal fabrication, 3D printing (if so which type?) or would turning and milling do for all parts?


----------

