# Clifton vs LN vs LV bench planes



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

When premium planes come to mind I always think of LN as the better, having never used a clifton or veritas I would like to know from people who have used these what is there preference?
As that's what it is I think.

When considering paying out for such a plane,

I've haven't heard any bad reviews about LN
Veritas is another I haven't heard many bad things from but with clifton some say their consistency is that to the level of the other two?

With all designs being different and same with materials ect how do you compare what's the most effective brand?
In regards to design I favour clifton there non flashy approach appeals to me and the ss is also my preferred setup.

Opinions wanted
Thanks
TT


----------



## Jason (15 Nov 2013)

Clifton are fine. They need a better PR department, but their planes are top notch. As is their customer service. As are your consumer rights should for any reason you think a plane you've bought in the EU isn't what you expected.


----------



## AndyT (15 Nov 2013)

Toby

Have a read of this very long thread which among other things will explain how an outdated comment on quality has haunted Clifton. What Google finds is not always the whole story!

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/topic66750.html


----------



## Jacob (15 Nov 2013)

The low angle versions are all a bit pointless and don't have easy adjustment.
Clifton is good but the bedrock frog is over rated; adjustable mouth is a much better option, as per the modern Stanley SW which is cheaper and performs just as well as the others, but has a not very good adjuster.
As far as woodwork is concerned it won't make much difference which you get!


----------



## Cheshirechappie (15 Nov 2013)

I've had a couple of LN benchplanes and a couple of Clifton shoulder planes for about 15 years. They were all superb straight out of the box, needing only a light honing to get them going, and they're still like that today. I've no doubt that LV would be just as good.

Sadly, in their early days Clifton suffered a bad batch of castings from a foundry that went bust shortly after delivering a batch (so Clifton lost their pattern equipment as well). With orders to fill, Clifton either had to make the best of the castings they had, or take the time and cashflow penalty in remaking patterns and finding another foundry - they chose the first to keep some cash flowing through the business, and some of the substandard castings ended up in the hands of reviewers. The foundry they now use are working to a far better standard, consistently. 

Shortly afterwards, the factory was flooded out, destroying the entire stock of finished work, and leaving a lot of cleaning and rebuilding of machinery to be done.

So, all in all, Clifton have done very well to stay in business - they certainly didn't have an easy start.

In any comparative test between Clifton, LN and LV, all would be rated 'excellent'. The differences are down to things like whether you prefer green planes or black ones, fully forged irons or irons from rolled plate, and shape of handles. All minor stuff, really.


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

Thanks gents,
I read about the floods (twice) that clifton had not good.
I'm thinking Of getting one when I start my furniture course is September. But I have most size planes that work very well so maby an iron upgrade would be a cheaper option, and a bit of a tune up.
That being said I've only brought 1 tool new (QS LA block) 
I would like a bench plane that has only had my hands on it. 
If I got one id get the no4 as I have an excellent no6. 
Then again a no3 as my 6 does what a 4 can do.
Decisions, decisions.

My reasons for choosing clifton is the fact it's british so I'll have to check that thread out and double check that they are still made in Sheffield.
Cheers gents.

TT


----------



## paulm (15 Nov 2013)

As has been said, they are generally excellent brands and planes and much of it is down to personal taste/preference.

While admiring some of the technical features and functionality of the veritas range I never came to like the aesthetics at all, not important in terms of doing any woodworking of course, but I just don't like them !

I bought a few LN planes over a period of time, mainly bevel up, and found them excellent to use as you would expect, but after handling and testing a Clifton 51/2 at one of the shows (just for fun, I wasn't after or needing any more planes), I sold most of the LNs and replaced them with Cliftons. I just immediately warmed to the performance and handling and aesthetics in a way that the LNs just didn't (performance aside).





So personal taste really, best if you can get hands on with them all at a show to compare, we're lucky to have such a choice these days 

Cheers, Paul


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

Thanks Paul,
What a selection of planes, I sadly can only get one but I think I'll sell a load of my stuff and get another if I'm happy with the first,

It's a shame that clifton don't do a no8 or a block plane! I saw a pic of a proto type block but can't find it now.

Where's the best place to buy from?
For a no4
Classichandtools £237.95
Workshop heaven £254.40 free postage for 2weeks
Toolnut £239.00

Can any one find it cheaper or know a good place to get it from?

I think I want no3,5,7 
Thanks
TT


----------



## bugbear (15 Nov 2013)

tobytools":3go9h1gc said:


> Thanks Paul,
> What a selection of planes, I sadly can only get one but I think I'll sell a load of my stuff and get another if I'm happy with the first,
> 
> It's a shame that clifton don't do a no8 or a block plane! I saw a pic of a proto type block but can't find it now.
> ...



A shop you can visit in person and try the tool!

BugBear


----------



## Paul Chapman (15 Nov 2013)

Clifton, Lie Nielsen and Veritas are all equally good in terms of performance so it really comes down to personal preference. With regard to bench planes and shoulder planes, I would always go for Clifton. I have several of them and even one with my name on it  





I've always had very good service and deals from Classic Hand Tools, who stock them.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## paulm (15 Nov 2013)

tobytools":wdcj84sf said:


> Thanks Paul,
> What a selection of planes, I sadly can only get one but I think I'll sell a load of my stuff and get another if I'm happy with the first,
> 
> It's a shame that clifton don't do a no8 or a block plane! I saw a pic of a proto type block but can't find it now.
> ...



The no3 is surprisingly useful, might find you don't miss a block plane after all !

Cheers, Paul


----------



## Paul Chapman (15 Nov 2013)

paulm":339j94ti said:


> The no3 is surprisingly useful



I would second that. My #3 and #7 are probably my most used Cliftons.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

Paul Chapman":1mkqloh4 said:


> Clifton, Lie Nielsen and Veritas are all equally good in terms of performance so it really comes down to personal preference. With regard to bench planes and shoulder planes, I would always go for Clifton. I have several of them and even one with my name on it
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Paul, I'm defiantly going with a clifton no4 for Xmas, I want it now tho lol,
I've seen some plane with their names on but done with metric letter punches, yours looks superbly done, did you get engraved by a specialist?

Thanks
TT


----------



## Paul Chapman (15 Nov 2013)

tobytools":3ip36fi4 said:


> I've seen some plane with their names on but done with metric letter punches, yours looks superbly done, did you get engraved by a specialist?



That's one of the limited edition, anniversary planes that Clifton produced. Mike Hudson of Clifton, who I know well, added my name as a favour.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

Paul Chapman":273q71a2 said:


> paulm":273q71a2 said:
> 
> 
> > The no3 is surprisingly useful
> ...


So for a smoother you favor the no3 over the 2,4,4 1/2
Please explain,
Cheers
TT


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

Paul Chapman":2iy8tjay said:


> tobytools":2iy8tjay said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen some plane with their names on but done with metric letter punches, yours looks superbly done, did you get engraved by a specialist?
> ...



That's what I call a friend, 
Excellent, 
TT


----------



## AndyT (15 Nov 2013)

bugbear":1hh5ru8v said:


> tobytools":1hh5ru8v said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Paul,
> ...



One springs to mind - Bristol Design. They stock Clifton planes alongside their own line of new infill planes (modelled on Norris designs). Worth a phone call to check they have the one you want before travelling. I've no idea what their Clifton prices are, and sadly their shop isn't quite in the Clifton area of Bristol, but it's close!

I have no connection with the shop except wanting such an unusual outlet to continue to flourish,

PS they have their own line of carving tools and chisels too, alongside the vintage tools.


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

I'll have a look on there website and give them a call, 
My uncle lives in Bristol so I can co visit him not the tools shop 
TT 
Thanks Andy


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

AndyT":9dcb468m said:


> bugbear":9dcb468m said:
> 
> 
> > tobytools":9dcb468m said:
> ...



I've had a work with the guy and he's only got a 6 and 7,
I've asked if he will find out the price of a no3 n 4 to price compare, I'll call him Monday and if it's kwl m ask him to order and go have a look in his shop. I'll leave the band card at home 
TT


----------



## Phil Pascoe (15 Nov 2013)

:lol: The "band" card? The "banned" card? or the "bank"... or the banned bank card?


----------



## AndyT (15 Nov 2013)

They don't actually take plastic - you'll need cash or a cheque - so if you did mean 'bank card' do take it so you can pop out to a cash dispenser!


----------



## tobytools (15 Nov 2013)

AndyT":zrzrrx8y said:


> They don't actually take plastic - you'll need cash or a cheque - so if you did mean 'bank card' do take it so you can pop out to a cash dispenser!



Lol, makes sence. I'll just have to settle with two planes instead 
Cheers 
TT


----------



## Vann (15 Nov 2013)

As others have said, Lie-Nielsen, Veritas and Clifton are all premium tool brands. You won't go wrong with any of them - it's more a matter of taste. Veritas are modern and innovative. To me Lie-Nielsen look more classic than Clifton. I prefer Clifton because they're British (even though I'm not #-o ). 

I have their No.3 because I already had a No.4 (or two - not Cliffies) at the time. I really love it and use it for fine smoothing. I still have my No.4 for coarser work. 

I also bought a Clifton No.4 1/2, which I wanted because every No.4 1/2 I bought off online auction sites turned out to be flawed, but I find I very seldom reach for it. 

I've also bought Clifton irons to upgrade other planes in the "fleet". I've mostly used Classic Hand Tools because they really excelled themselves with my No.4 1/2 - though for the No.8 irons I had to go to Germany for the cap-iron, and the USA for the cutting iron, as there were no stocks left in the UK by 2010.

I very much doubt you'll ever regret buying yourself that Cliffie No.4, but if you get the opportunity, try the No.3 as well before you hand over the folding stuff. 

Cheers, Vann.


----------



## Benchwayze (16 Nov 2013)

Am I coming in late? 

As usable tools, there's little wrong with Clifton. However my one issue with them is the handle design. I just don't like it, and it feels awkward to me. So for that reason alone, I went to LN for a 'posh' Jack. 

(Results from both are almost as good as my ancient, fettled Record! ) 8) 

And I still can't sell the Clifton. So it's on a shelf going to waste.


----------



## Kalimna (16 Nov 2013)

I have an interest in your Cliffie, but right now it would be tricky to slip it under the nose of Mrs S. I already have a No6, so an expansion of the set would be nice.

Cheers,
Adam S


----------



## woodbrains (16 Nov 2013)

Hello,

Handles seem to be the deal breaker with these tools. I have heared most dislike of the Veritas rear handles and it might be that Clifton may not suit everyone either, if Benchwayse is not alone I his preference. I have a Veritas LA jack and get on very well with the handle. It seems that the less angled and less curved handle is a modern development that is actually meant to fatigue the user less. See Bridge City Tools take on the subject. However, if you are used to the more curvaceous handles on Bailey style planes, they might be too radical a difference to get along with. Definitely find some test examples before making up your mind, as the Veritas planes themselves are absolutely fabulous in manufacture and function.

Mike.


----------



## Muina (17 Nov 2013)

I've never tried a Clifton, but having tried Veritas and Lie Nielsen I found the LN ran circles around the Veritas (obviously this is personal preference). I can't imagine the Cliftons being horrible to use, the only reason I went American was that I read somewhere (don't know how true this is) that the Cliftons are prone to smashing if dropped, whereas the others are not as brittle. Even though I treat my LN like a hemophiliac new born accidents do happen!

Only thing I can say is that with any tool, you really need to use them to find which one will suit you best, so if you can find someone with a Clifton to try I know the Warrington Axminster has a hand tool event on November 30th where they'll most likely have both LN and Veritas planes to try out.

Thank you

Anthony


----------



## G S Haydon (17 Nov 2013)

Hello Toby,

I'm 99% going the clifton route too via Workshop Heaven, most likely #4, a post Christmas purchase after some tool vouchers :ho2 . I've started a Clifton page on pinterest if you want to take a look, hopefuly add some more tonight http://www.pinterest.com/joinery/clifton-hand-planes/ . I'm looking forward to your review.


----------



## Jacob (17 Nov 2013)

Muina":2anzdffi said:


> .... (don't know how true this is) that the Cliftons are prone to smashing if dropped, whereas the others are not as brittle. ....


I doubt it as they seem to be made if ductile steel and are soft compared to an old cast iron Record. So they scratch easily instead, as do LV, both in my experience.


----------



## Paul Chapman (17 Nov 2013)

Muina":dxbswx7m said:


> the only reason I went American was that I read somewhere (don't know how true this is) that the Cliftons are prone to smashing if dropped, whereas the others are not as brittle.



Not true. I have a video where Clifton tested some of their planes by dropping them 20 feet onto a concrete floor and they didn't bend or break. They are very well made tools.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


----------



## tobytools (17 Nov 2013)

This might interest some
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLTzsIDXHeY

That's a job would do
Sorry boss this one is ruined  I'll bin it you just relax lol

TT


----------



## tobytools (17 Nov 2013)

G S Haydon":203yp6rf said:


> Hello Toby,
> 
> I'm 99% going the clifton route too via Workshop Heaven, most likely #4, a post Christmas purchase after some tool vouchers :ho2 . I've started a Clifton page on pinterest if you want to take a look, hopefuly add some more tonight http://www.pinterest.com/joinery/clifton-hand-planes/ . I'm looking forward to your review.



Cheers buddy,
I'll have a look and review to the best of my ability, 
Mine is going to be an early Xmas present to 
No4 
I can't wait, 
Saying that the misses is now blackmailing me  

Thanks TT


----------

