# Oak Panelling - Design phase



## TrimTheKing (6 Feb 2010)

Evenin' all

After finally getting hold of the basics of SketchUp I have managed to pull together a few drawings of how my study currently looks and the panelling I want to install (based on Brad's recent installation method).

I have knocked about various styles including different numbers of panels (worked on 3, 4 & 5) and settled on 3 graduated panels (bottom one is slightly longer than middle which is slightly longer than top). I (and more importantly the wife) think this looks best so I am now putting it out there to my peers for your ever respected critique and and hints, tips, design changes and general comments. 

For info, the angled bit in the corner is a cupboard which hold boiler, consumer unit, UFH manifold etc and can't really be modified unfortunately. It is currently just MDF doors which I will replace with doors to match the panelling but haven't added these to the design as yet.

Anyhoo, enjoy and please fire away with your comments, I'm sure I've overlooked something spectacularly... 

Current top down view, AWO flooring already down, panelling will also be in AWO unless someone tells me otherwise...






Another view





And another





Top down view with (proposed) panelling layout





Second view





And third





Close up of stop chamfer detail around all panels





This one is of the window wall. The other walls were easy to work out, the panels are consistent width across the wall but differ slightly on each wall (couldn't think of any other way to get round it, is there a traditional way or have I done right?).

The window wall however was more difficult. Obviously for aesthetics I had to make the panels fit to around the same size as the other walls but below the window they had to line up with the edges (or do they? Have I done right here???) so the panels to the left of the window are one size, below window panel differ and to the right they differ again. Only by about 20mm between them so not sure it will be too noticable but is this correct?






Look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Cheers

Mark


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## harryc (7 Feb 2010)

Never really understood the appeal of wood panelling. Just leave the walls alone and attach what ever shelving you have in mind unless of course you are after a 18th Century look.

harry


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## Paul Chapman (7 Feb 2010)

Dunno, Mark - from the drawings it all looks a bit too fussy. I wonder if you have too many panels. They look rather small in relation to the size of the window and doors. Maybe you need fewer but larger panels :-k 

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Oryxdesign (7 Feb 2010)

Less panels I think and perhaps make the top one shallower.


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## MikeG. (7 Feb 2010)

Mark,

I don't agree with our other two posters here..........I think that with a tweak or two that this will look fantastic.

My immediate thought was that you have just stopped at an un-important height 3/4 of the way up the wall. To my eye, you have to do something visual at that level to justify stopping. Why don't you carry on up to the ceiling? If you are set on stopping there, maybe fit an oak shelf on some oak brackets at that level, as a way of making sense of stopping.

The other thing I would do would be to use the level of the rails under the window as the determining factor for setting all of the heights out. This would mean that level of rail would run around the whole room, and all of the panels would be just slightly smaller as a result. That at least would give a visual reason for your panel size, and help forgive just stopping in the middle of nowhere up your wall.

Mike


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## Mrs Oryx (7 Feb 2010)

I can't see a dimension of the height of the room but using the door height I'm guessing the ceiling height is not excpetionally high. Stopping the pannelling short may make the ceiling feel lower.

The picture Oryx Design posted is of a room with high ceilings and has the detail the Mike G refers to at the top of the paneling. I'm with Oryx Design though - too many panels for my personal taste.

The drop in the rails under the window offends my eye and as Mike suggests I would use that height to run around the room at with perhaps one long panel below that line and a couple above extending higher than currently and with some detail at the top closer to the ceiling.

It is, of course, a matter of personal taste - you'll be the one staring at the walls for a while to come.


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## TrimTheKing (7 Feb 2010)

Thanks for all the comments guys. To address a few points first off...



Mike Garnham":18gp3f14 said:


> My immediate thought was that you have just stopped at an un-important height 3/4 of the way up the wall. To my eye, you have to do something visual at that level to justify stopping. Why don't you carry on up to the ceiling? If you are set on stopping there, maybe fit an oak shelf on some oak brackets at that level, as a way of making sense of stopping.


I agree Mike, but SWMBO didn't like the look of it going all the way to the top and thinks it will make the ceiling seem too low (which I tended to agree with). 

To be honest I wanted to take it to the height of the top of the door and panel the door too so that when you are in the room it appears that there is only a door to the outside. Might seem a bit silly but it goes with another part of the plan which I haven't shared as yet...



Mike Garnham":18gp3f14 said:


> The other thing I would do would be to use the level of the rails under the window as the determining factor for setting all of the heights out. This would mean that level of rail would run around the whole room, and all of the panels would be just slightly smaller as a result. That at least would give a visual reason for your panel size, and help forgive just stopping in the middle of nowhere up your wall.





Mrs Oryx":18gp3f14 said:


> The drop in the rails under the window offends my eye and as Mike suggests I would use that height to run around the room at with perhaps one long panel below that line and a couple above extending higher than currently and with some detail at the top closer to the ceiling.


Yep, I think I agree with those comments. I will run off another attempt and see what I can come up with.

What do you think about the panel widths issue though? Because of the wall widths am I right in adjusting the panels slightly to fit the space or is there some kind of trick I'm missing?
I think this is going to take a few iterations before I'm completely happy with it so keep the comments coming, it's really helpful to me. I can get a bit blinded by the design process and stop seeing the obvious things so having them pointed out helps, cheers.


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## SNight (7 Feb 2010)

If you dont want to go all the way to the cieling with the panelling, you could fit a picture rail and stop it there maybe.


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## Jake (7 Feb 2010)

I don't know about wood panelling, not my thing, but the equivalent problem in tiling (where they are necessarily using fixed unit widths) is to use the fixed widths of whatever and divide the remaining space evenly either side. If this results in slivers at the side, stick another panel in the middle to shunt the edge ones over so you removing the sliver from a full panel. That's a really bad explanation of something quite simple, but have a quick google on setting out tile and you'll find better explanations.


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## wizer (7 Feb 2010)

harryc":34lrdt5k said:


> Never really understood the appeal of wood panelling. Just leave the walls alone and attach what ever shelving you have in mind unless of course you are after a 18th Century look.
> 
> harry



I'm assuming, as he's gone to the trouble of learning how to use sketchup just to draw this room with wooden panelling and the fact he didn't ask for opinions on whether he should install it or not, that he likes panelling and very much wants it in this room. So clearly he does not want to bung a load of spur shelving up! :roll: 

Mark I think it looks great. Having seen your house, I think the panelling with look very good and fit in well. I can fully understand the look your going for and I'd certainly consider doing it myself.

I'm not sure about the technicalities, not my area, but I don't think the way you've drawn it is too bad actually. What colour are you thinking for above the panelling?

Where is the secret bookcase door going ? :lol:


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## Doug B (7 Feb 2010)

The problem i see with using the same product (AWO) on the walls & floors, is it leaves no scope for change of look in the room, a few years down the line.

If you broke up the paneling heights etc, to allow for some decoration then at least the changes can be rung when you tire of the look of the room.


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## Chris Knight (7 Feb 2010)

Are you intending the panels' grain to run horizontally or have you simply not rotated it in SU?


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## Mattty (7 Feb 2010)

waterhead37":1h1rcmis said:


> Are you intending the panels' grain to run horizontally or have you simply not rotated it in SU?



I agree the Panels need to run up and down. 
I would personally not do it in AWO either. It would look so much classier in European Oak with QS panels (more expensive too). Whilst i realise it wouldn't be a perfect match to the floor i would still use Euro Oak. 

Like the others have commented i think you need a reason to stop it at that height, a small shelf with brackets would look good. 

Well done for mastering Sketchup..If only i could..


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## wizer (7 Feb 2010)

Matt, I owe Mark a borrow of my Sketchup tutorial DVD. I've taken so long to send it to him that it look like he's mastered it. Would you like it??


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## Mattty (7 Feb 2010)

wizer":s5qas4hk said:


> Matt, I owe Mark a borrow of my Sketchup tutorial DVD. I've taken so long to send it to him that it look like he's mastered it. Would you like it??


That would be superb mate thanks. Do you still have my address?


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## wizer (7 Feb 2010)

Nope, pm me. ta


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## TrimTheKing (7 Feb 2010)

wizer":ijcu7ooa said:


> Matt, I owe Mark a borrow of my Sketchup tutorial DVD. I've taken so long to send it to him that it look like he's mastered it. Would you like it??


Haha, certainly not mastered it mate, but got the hang of the basics. Will still borrow from you in the future just to see if it has anything else to teach, but Mattty can have a go first


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## jedmc571 (8 Feb 2010)

Looks like a plan Trim :lol: 

When do we start, I'm in.......... :wink:


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

wizer":2rrcnkch said:


> What colour are you thinking for above the panelling?


Thinking of a nice deep drawing room red, I want the room to be a plush, Gentlemans' retreat, study/smoking room kind of feel (not that I smoke, but I may take up the pipe if I get the room right  ) Unfortunately The Mrs doesn't like the red idea and fancies a cool blue colour. Will try some out and see, it's only a small amount of wall so even if it's wrong it won't take much to overpaint it.



wizer":2rrcnkch said:


> Where is the secret bookcase door going ? :lol:


Did I tell you about that or just a guess?  The reason I might panel the back of the door too, to disguise it, is that that door leads into the lounge and I plan to make a secret bookcase door to fill the alcove on the lounge side 

I have always loved Batman and wanted a Batcave since I was a kid, this is as close as I'm going to get to the secret room :lol:



Doug B":2rrcnkch said:


> The problem i see with using the same product (AWO) on the walls & floors, is it leaves no scope for change of look in the room, a few years down the line.
> 
> If you broke up the paneling heights etc, to allow for some decoration then at least the changes can be rung when you tire of the look of the room.


I know what you mean about wood type but not sure what you mean about 'scope for change' and 'some decoration' Doug, can you expand?



waterhead37":2rrcnkch said:


> Are you intending the panels' grain to run horizontally or have you simply not rotated it in SU?


Modified now, just forgot to change the orientation. 



Mattty":2rrcnkch said:


> I would personally not do it in AWO either. It would look so much classier in European Oak with QS panels (more expensive too). Whilst i realise it wouldn't be a perfect match to the floor i would still use Euro Oak.


The reason for AWO was not really to match the floor, more because I want it to be timber but not too dark as the room isn;t massive so I don't want it to close in. Would Euro Oak be much darker? If not then I'm happy to go with that.

The other thing was that I don't want separate panels, I was going to follow Brad's recent construction method (stiles/rails stuck onto an oak ply backer) for ease/speed. Can you get euro oak ply?


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

Thanks for all the replies boys and girls, here are modified diagrams for your critique...

I have removed the bottom panel and brought the mid rail to the below window height all round the room. I have also graduated the two panels above as I think this is probably better, aesthetically, than two long panels (but I am going back to SketchUp to try another couple of ideas too...)
















I plan to have a small shel with some brackets or some kind of other detail at the top of the panelling, just not sure what yet so have left it off for now.

I am also going off to try some wider panels with differing top numbers to see how that looks.

So, better or worse than first attempt?

I know that it is all personal taste and I will be living with it, but I am very much still knocking ideas about and haven't set myself on anything as yet so your comments are all valid and welcomed.


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## woodbloke (8 Feb 2010)

Mark - looks good. Grain should run vertically and of course _proper_ wainscotting (sp) should be with quarter sawn English oak panels, rails and stiles m/t'd together and draw-bored as well.
Shouldn't take you more that a few evenings, so we'll expect a full report, with pics, at Rycotewood :lol: - Rob


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## Sportique (8 Feb 2010)

Mark

for me this is looking much better now.

Just a little concerned about the top of door/top of window/top of panelling.

Three different levels - may look better if you lower the top of the panelling to align with top of the door? Maybe that's just me though.

Lovely idea if the room is large enough to take it.

Dave


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## Chems (8 Feb 2010)

I think its a great idea and the secret door is brilliant.

Are you going to lay vennered MDF panels on then glue/domino/tack the rails onto this like the house brad found with wood panelling or are you going to make it like hundreds of rail and style doors?


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## MikeG. (8 Feb 2010)

Here's another vote for aligning with the door head. You could run the top rail across the head of the door as if it were the top of an architrave. 

I think that is is really important that things have reasons for being where they are, and finishing your panelling somewhere near the top of the window and somewhere near the top of the door is only going to make a visitor think "Why there?". If you are going to be away from the top of the openings, be a long way away, but I would take my cue from top of the door.

Anyway, it looks much better than stab number one.

Mike


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

Sportique":ryrzxi4n said:


> Three different levels - may look better if you lower the top of the panelling to align with top of the door? Maybe that's just me though.





Mike Garnham":ryrzxi4n said:


> Here's another vote for aligning with the door head. You could run the top rail across the head of the door as if it were the top of an architrave.


Sorry guys, that's what I meant to do with the top of the door bit but forgot to add it in in my haste to post.  

It's difficult with the door/window heights being different so my plan was as you suggest, to run the top rail over the top of the door, like below...

This is my next stab btw, trying what it looks like with 2 tall panels...







Next stab is stabs 2/3 but slightly wider panels...


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## MikeG. (8 Feb 2010)

Nope.....that doesn't do it for me. I like the door, but you need more panels vertically I think.

Mike


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## Chems (8 Feb 2010)

Chems":op6kpx7b said:


> I think its a great idea and the secret door is brilliant.
> 
> Are you going to lay vennered MDF panels on then glue/domino/tack the rails onto this like the house brad found with wood panelling or are you going to make it like hundreds of rail and style doors?


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

Chems":uofjk8ya said:


> I think its a great idea and the secret door is brilliant.
> 
> Are you going to lay vennered MDF panels on then glue/domino/tack the rails onto this like the house brad found with wood panelling or are you going to make it like hundreds of rail and style doors?


Which secret door Chems, the bookcase on the other side or panelling the back of the door in study?

Yep, planning to do it the same way as Brad did with veneered panels and rails/stiles stuck on, unless anyone can tell me a compelling reason to do it a different way...


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## Chems (8 Feb 2010)

Yep that secret door, why how many do you plan?!?

Doing it that way won't take you long at all. Could even end up quicker than painting!


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## wizer (8 Feb 2010)

The 2nd one gets my vote.


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

wizer":hh0ymiji said:


> The 2nd one gets my vote.


The one with 2 smaller panels above one tall one?


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

Chems":3jlfjosi said:


> Yep that secret door, why how many do you plan?!?
> 
> Doing it that way won't take you long at all. Could even end up quicker than painting!


I've not explained it very well obviously 

Part 1 - What I plan to do is, panel the study side of the door so you can't tell there is a door there when you are in the study. Not worked out the logistics/mechanics of opening yet, but thinking on maybe just a push to open fitting so it's easy to open providing you know how...

Part 2 - On the opposite side of that same door will be a hidden bookcase door on the lounge side so when you are in the study there is no visible door, and when you are in the lounge there is only a bookcase (with hidden door in it).

In reality it will be too thick to have it as a single door so I plan to just clad the existing door from the study side so that it opens into the room, the the bookcase door will open into the lounge by means of some kind of book movement related trickery, which I also haven't designed as yet .

I think that makes sense now. I'm confuddling meself now


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## Chems (8 Feb 2010)

I see now, so its hidden on both sides. Now at risk of runing a good forum repuatation, thats one of the coolest ideas I've ever read on here! Can't wait to see it.

Regarding the door mechanism, I think the easiest way would be to have a ball catch, so when in the study you push the door to open out into the other room and when in the other toom you grasp the "special" book and pull to open. Minimum fuss to keep it simples tsk.


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## TrimTheKing (8 Feb 2010)

Okay boys and girls, please don't be bored yet, I know this is become a mammoth task but you really are helping me 

I think I am getting a bit closer now but want to hear what you think. I think the wider panel spacing makes more sense and looks better but if you disagree shout up and tell me why. I have been working on this for nearly 3 weeks now (most of that time spent getting to grips with the quickest ways to work SketchUp) so I am a bit blinded by all the tree and can't identify the wood...

Two new pics with wider panels on the two main walls...For scale, the 8 panels you can see to the left of the door in pic 1 are 420mm wide.









This window wall is still puzzling me though. Here are three versions, one with the wider panel spacings to the right of the window, one with only two panels under the window and the other with the previous snaller spacings all the way across. I'm not sure which I prefer but I'm pretty sure it's not the mixed widths one. I think it has to be either 2 panels under windows or all slimmer panels. I think I'm leaning towards two wider panels under window but not sure why...













Thanks for reading this far, hope you're not bored yet.


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## Paul Chapman (9 Feb 2010)

On the window wall, I much prefer the one with only two panels under the window.

Cheers :wink: 

Paul


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## Mattty (9 Feb 2010)

I prefer the 3 panels. Are you planning to run all the stiles through the rails as your drawing shows? I would almost certainly have a continous top and bottom rail with the stiles between. It would be interesting to see it on a drawing.


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## Karl (9 Feb 2010)

Looking good Mark.

I prefer the 3 panels under the window, and would agree with Matty about having the continuous rails top and bottom.

Cheers

Karl


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## MikeG. (9 Feb 2010)

I'm with Matt on having a continuous top & bottom rail.

The other thing I would say is to be very careful with your secret door plan. Draw it out in full size in plan, first, and "open" it in the drawing. If you make something with the depth of bookshelves, trying to pivot it from one point is quite difficult without it fouling, and allowing for the fouling will leave really big gaps.

Mike


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## John McM (9 Feb 2010)

Great link for secret bookcase

http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques ... nstall.htm


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## TrimTheKing (9 Feb 2010)

John McM":5otgejrl said:


> Great link for secret bookcase
> 
> http://www.garymkatz.com/TrimTechniques ... nstall.htm


Cheers John. I had this stored in my favourites ages ago but lost it when my pooter went pop and couldn't find it again, you're now my new hero.


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## TrimTheKing (9 Feb 2010)

2 panels under window with wider ones to the right, which I think I am happy with, and showing rails running through with stiles between and inner rails staccato.

Thoughts?














Mike Garnham":b2n9gzjr said:


> The other thing I would say is to be very careful with your secret door plan. Draw it out in full size in plan, first, and "open" it in the drawing. If you make something with the depth of bookshelves, trying to pivot it from one point is quite difficult without it fouling, and allowing for the fouling will leave really big gaps.


I agree Mike, I still didn't explain it very well in my post. I think I am goin to have to go with two doors, one being the panelled door which will open into the study, the second being the bookcase door which will open into the lounge.

Still not worked this out as yet, trying to get the look of the panelling right first.

I need some ideas for look/construction of the 'feature' atop the panelling should I decide to put something on there. Can't decide between a shelf or some kind of cove. Any thoughts or suggestions welcomed.

Right, I have man flu and feel terrible, I'm off to bed, good night all.


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## ninbelindur (3 Nov 2010)

Hi trimtheking, I really liked your plans for the panelling you had planned.
Did you do it and if so how did it go ?
I am interested in doing something similar, but just on one wall, and maybe incorporate some shelves too.
I am not far from you, Altrincham, who supplied the timber for use ?


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## TrimTheKing (4 Nov 2010)

ninbelindur":35votmah said:


> Hi trimtheking, I really liked your plans for the panelling you had planned.
> Did you do it and if so how did it go ?
> I am interested in doing something similar, but just on one wall, and maybe incorporate some shelves too.
> I am not far from you, Altrincham, who supplied the timber for use ?



Hi ninbelindur

I have had other things on the go since this, but I will hopefully be finished with my current project in the next 3 weeks so the panelling will then be brought back to life.

I haven't bought the timber yet but will probably end up getting it either from Irmass in Trafford Park or a couple of other places that I can't remember the name of, but have them in my book so will dig them out.

Will let you know how it goes when I fire the project back up again. Once I work out the details you are welcome to bob over and check it out if you want.

Cheers

Mark


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## ninbelindur (7 Nov 2010)

Hi Mark
Thank you for your reply, I will give Irmass a call and see what they have got for me.
Your project looks like it will be very nice when it is finished, I would really appreciate it if you would show me, thank you for your kind offer.
Thanks
Enrico


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## ninbelindur (17 Nov 2010)

Hi Mark
How is your installation going ?
Couple of questions for you as I am still planning mine only in my head as yet.
What is the program you have used called, is it sketchup ? where did you get it from ?
Also, I see you refer to Brads installation method, I can`t see this anywhere, could you point me towards it please, sorry but it will help me plan my wall.
Thanks
Enrico


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## Chems (17 Nov 2010)

Brad mentioned it somewhere, it was quite clever. He discovered it when doing some work on a house as a technique that someone long ago had used.

Basically you panel the wall, now days with veneered MDF, then make up your rails and styles up and fit these at 2 feet centres so to cover the joins between boards and then use what ever spacing you like for the height as the 8 foot board should reach to ceiling level. It allows you to just fix the rails straight onto the board to give the effect of panelling with out the massive amount of work involved.


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## ninbelindur (17 Nov 2010)

Ok, sounds pretty good, but I`m thinking of putting some shelves on somewhere, and have expanded my thoughts to cupboards at the bottom.
What is the best way to build shelving/bookcase ?


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## ninbelindur (17 Nov 2010)

I`ve found google sketchup, don`t think i`ll bother learning it, seems too complicated.


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## Shultzy (18 Nov 2010)

ninbelindur":1lsnirqj said:


> I`ve found google sketchup, don`t think i`ll bother learning it, seems too complicated.



You must be joking, its very easy to learn. Try these sites and see what you think.

Go to the last pages and start for there as they are in latest post first.

http://www.go-2-school.com/media/browse/sketchup_show

And this is the forum
http://forums.sketchucation.com/

last but not least try Dave R blogs in the design section.


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## ninbelindur (18 Nov 2010)

Thanks for that, I`ll give it a try


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## Shultzy (18 Nov 2010)

Come back to the design forum with any question, there are plenty of use who will help.


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## ninbelindur (19 Nov 2010)

Thank you, I shall have a play around this weekend.


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