# setting up a workshop costs



## shim20 (9 May 2012)

most people say 10k? surely its possible to do it for less than that? ive got all the portable tools i need and a good mortiser, so as a bare minimum i would also need a saw bench, planer thicknesser, spindle, radial arm saw maybe, it would be joinery and furniture. so what other costs are involved? there's a few places around here on farms etc to rent quite cheap, so what else am i missing there's obviously other things im missing so what are they and how much are they lol?
any advice would be great thanks


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## Andycase (9 May 2012)

Assuming you are buying new, then a table saw £1200, Morticer £1000, Spindle Moulder £1000, Planer thicknesser £1200, Radial Arm £1500. Bandsaw? If you want to resaw your own timber then around £1500-2000. Bench? £1500. Domino or biscuit joiner? £300-800

So far we are up to approx £10k

If you dont have work already coming in then you will need funds for your first 1-2 months rent, electric, gas, council tax, water, insurance both public and premises. That alone could be 1-2k easy

Material? Have you got all the wood you need? Hardwood and softwood? Will be cheaper to buy in bulk and store it. Average £30-£40 per cubic foot depending on material.

Finishes? Waxes, oils, paints. 
Consumables and tools? Sanding discs, drill bits, chisels, morticers, router bits, clamps (you can never have enough)

If you are buying new, surely 10k isnt enough, unless you dont plan to put away for the 1st couple of months as you already have paid work


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## Andycase (9 May 2012)

Sorry just re-read your post and you have a morticer

Replace your morticer with dust extraction..........big enough for all your machines plus your ducting etc. You arent going to want to sweep up every night when you want to go home - £1500-£2000

Also, what about the premises themselves? If you are doing this professionally then you will want big enough machines, which are going to require 3 phase - that might need putting in, or at least extra electrical sockets etc putting in. Doubt your landlord will do that for you. Unless the premises has already been a joinery shop?
Decent lighting is a must. Will you need to add any? 

Phone line, internet, computer - unless you will do it all at home, including any computer design work


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## shim20 (9 May 2012)

wouldnt be new the older stuff is better made i think, got a bench, wouldn't need a domino got a biscuit jointer. 
so there would be rent and electric but no gas or water i could just take water in each day, why would i need public insurance it would just be me?. material i would buy as i go but yer might need abit for that, it would all be as bear minimum as possible just to get going, i may be living in a dream world and probably am?, just looking at my options


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## shim20 (9 May 2012)

Andycase":13h6g6i1 said:


> Sorry just re-read your post and you have a morticer
> 
> Replace your morticer with dust extraction..........big enough for all your machines plus your ducting etc. You arent going to want to sweep up every night when you want to go home - £1500-£2000
> 
> ...



would be single phase as the machines can be easily used anywhere else, phone mobile to start with? that's all we have where i work at the moment it is the middle ages where i work but its amazing what can be done with abit of thought, thanks for your input


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## Andycase (9 May 2012)

public insurance? Could get away without it, but what if someone comes on your premises to view your work and has an accident? Or what if they commision you to do a piece, you dont do it in time, or you make a mistake (it happens) and they sue you or claim damages. Can happen.

If you are buying second hand, then yes, i think you could do it for 10k. 
But as someone who has been heavily involved in running a business and spending out on expansion, allow easily 10-20% for things you didnt think about like consumables.
Then put away for mistakes and problems. 
Would be horrible to get the shop up and running and hit a wall.

I went out recently to buy new bandsaw blades, decent sanding discs, a couple of router cutters and some other bits and bobs, and came back £200 worse off.
I dont even do it as a job, and i get large discount through work from tools suppliers etc

Its easily done and im a hobby user. Just imagine if youre doing it for a job.

With regards single phase, you will be limited by the power of your machines, but thats not to say you cant do it. I dont want to put you off as its exactly what i would love to do someday. But i like to think of everything.....which isnt always the best way, as you rarely jump in and do it. You will be running a shop while i will still be in a desk job!


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## shim20 (9 May 2012)

Andycase":wxbhcahu said:


> public insurance? Could get away without it, but what if someone comes on your premises to view your work and has an accident? Or what if they commision you to do a piece, you dont do it in time, or you make a mistake (it happens) and they sue you or claim damages. Can happen.
> 
> If you are buying second hand, then yes, i think you could do it for 10k.
> But as someone who has been heavily involved in running a business and spending out on expansion, allow easily 10-20% for things you didnt think about like consumables.
> ...



i would take the risk the the public insurance you have to take risks in life sometimes. thanks for your time its all been taken on board, and you made me aware of some very valid points.


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## Stormer1940 (9 May 2012)

Insurance is costing me nearly £1000 and the guy at the insurance brokers told me today that the insurance company wanted to up the excess from £250 (My insurance when I didn't have the shop) to £1000! I told them to sod off.

They want an alarm fitted which I do but I also have to pay out to have it maintained... Lucky I got away with not having the alarm monitored by Red Care.


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## petermillard (9 May 2012)

What about the most important missing piece - paying customers?


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## Stormer1940 (9 May 2012)

Lol... Then the advertising... The list goes on.... This is why I do sitework and have a workshop as well... I was having to turn work away because I didn't have the premises but now do. Startrite 352 bandsaw, Spindle Moulder, Cooksley 3Phase Mortiser, Wadkin rip/ panel saw. Startrite P/T. I have a Dewalt 717xps sliding compound mitre saw which I use for a crosscut as well.



> would be single phase as the machines can be easily used anywhere else


 Have you tried lumping a 300kg single phase spindle moulder around I know you can get smaller but be aware they still weigh in... Also the single phase sockets tend to look like this


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## ProShop (9 May 2012)

IMHO I would think seriously again at Not taking on public liability insurance, that's a huge mistake.
You can get PLi included in your premises insurance. (You are going to Insure the premises aren't you ?).


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## Rob Platt (9 May 2012)

if you ve got a load of hand tools. then a decent table saw decent bench and wait to see what your customers want and if you need to buy something then look at its cost and see if you really need it. I ve done most of my work with a contractors table saw i bought over thirty years ago and modified to my needs. and six routers most of which i bought second hand the rest was hand operated power tools and the usual hand tools depends on what youre going to be making 
HTH
all the best
rob


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## Lons (9 May 2012)

Hi Shim
You've made no mention of a vehicle so unless you already have a van, which is surely an essential if you're doing joinery and furniture, it's going to cost a substantial chunk of your 10k budget.
I run a business though joinery is only part of it and I think it's difficult to start up from scratch for 10k. Neither do I think it's prudent to spend that unless you find your customer base first and ideally start the business part time whilst earning a salary elsewhere. Make the "jump" when you feel the gamble has decent odds.
I'll probably be shot down in flames but it's my experience and honest opinion.

IMO public liability is absolutely essential. I knew an electrician, sole trader with a small one man business. he left a step ladder on a landing whilst he was working and the old dear of the household fell over it and down the stairs. A genuine accident but she was hospitalised for months and was never able to walk again without a stick. he was held to be responsible and I don't know how much the insurance company paid out but I guarantee it was 6 figures. It would have ruined him and there but by the grace of god go many of us! never had reason to call on mine but it helps me sleep soundly!

I would suggest that the first and most important tool to be used has to be market research. There's a very good reason why the majoprity of business failures happen in the first 12 months!

Bob


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## Bradshaw Joinery (10 May 2012)

hi, i have done exactly what your proposing, here is my view on a few points, 
Have a work with some llocal builders/carpenters, ask where they get there joinery, ring a few up out of the local rag, where do they go, how often, rough price, are they happy, would they try someone new. trade is where alot of return work will come in, privae is good when youve established a good name.


cost of the machines will be relative, if your renting a shop and slowly building the machinery up, should find better value machinery, however buying all at once to start straight away might end up being a compromise on price or what your getting. Plus, i have found tools spares and accesories for machines often cost alot more than youd expect. stuff like new saw blades, my last one was £120 iirc, spindle tooling, a scribe set for the tenoner and equvalent for the spindle is around £150 off the shelf, custom knives are double if you want the limiters too..... then theres rebater, moulding block, cill cutter, glue jointer, groovers, planer will need spare blades, 2/3 sets? mortice chisels, cheap ones are £50 expensive up to £150-200 each. consumables, like sandpaper, belts, glue, screws, stains and paint all cost wonga. dulux primer is around £70 for 5 litres..... theres a lot of little things i havent listed. i think a better way to start is have a bit of a shop as suggested and work on fitting/site then slowly build the shop up. 

dont want to put you off but its cost me probably £15k over three years to get my workshop to a condition of working profesionally from it full time. and i got some serious bargains.

2003 tesh tenonner - £1750
2002 sedgwick ta450 saw- £400
wadkin bao-s planer £150.
extractor - 400
spindle £1500
wadkin crosscut £150

as you can see the machinery in relation is cheap when you look at the overall figure. and i was always one ebay etc searching for my next machine bargain. i didnt go out and buy them when i needed them. 
plus im rent free too. 

to get a company in to do the 3 phase wiring was just over £3k


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## Bradshaw Joinery (10 May 2012)

i think my tradesmans policy is £200 for the year if that helps.


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## mailee (10 May 2012)

I was forced into it having been made redundant at the age of 55. I did start with less than 10K but I did have most of the equipment I needed already having been hobby woodworking for a number of years and building up a customer base. All of my equipment is 240 volt as is my workshop but I manage well without it so far. A has been stated there is a lot of outlay on insurances, rent, electricity, van, and rates. Consumables do take more money than you think even if your very frugal with them. When you start you will need to spend some money on advertising too, not to mention a website. I am now coming up to two years in business and still enjoying it with a good customer base but there never seems to be enough hours in the day for me. After a working day there are the books to be done and all of those plans for your commissions. JMHO :wink:


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## devonwoody (10 May 2012)

A truck, van or whatever, £10k to start with plus.

I think the day is coming when tradesmen will have to carry some liability insurance/bond upto very high amounts to provide indemnity on the work carried out. Its happening elsewhere in the world.


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## tomatwark (10 May 2012)

Shim

You could set up for about £10K and get going, I think that public liability insurance is a legal requirement, and on its is not that expensive, the expensive bit is the insurance on the kit.
You want this well as if you have a fire or a visit from the thieving b*****ds how will you set up again?


You will need to invest as you go a long as £10k will get you going but you will be amazed how many extra bits and pieces and bigger machines you will need over the years.

I am in former farm buildings which I am lucky with because they are converted and have heating, 3 phase etc and on a fairly busy road so get some passing trade, but still advertise as well.

If you are stuck up a farm track you will need to market quite a lot to start with so people know where you are.

Also if the buildings you are in are not converted they might well be to cold and damp in the winter to do any serious woodworking without some insulation and heating.


Tom


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## Lons (10 May 2012)

To the best of my knowledge, public liability insurance is NOT compulsory but any small business which doesn't make that provision is taking a huge risk. In the event of a claim, especially if an injury is involved, the costs can be astonishing and all sorts of costs are recoverable including ambulance and some NHS costs. In todays society of injury lawyers no win no fee activities, you can be taken to the cleaners :shock: 

What new business owners don't always appreciate though is that if they expand slightly and take on an employee, they are legally required to buy employers liability insurance and from memory, this can be expensive depending on the level of risk.

As an alternative to initial advertising, a very cost effective method is to print or buy in a load of A5 leaflets and enlist family and friends to blanket post your local area. People tend to retain details of local tradesmen. Whilst most of my enquiries came fairly quickly, I got a call from one of the recipients more than 3 years after posting through her letterbox . :roll: 

Bob


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## tomatwark (10 May 2012)

You are right Bob public liability insurance is not compulsory.

I checked after my first post.

But I would advise anyone who is business to have it though.

Tom


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## custard (10 May 2012)

"Joinery and furniture" sounds pretty broad. Have you got a more specific business plan in mind? If you're clearer about your products and services you can get better and more relevant equipment. Trying to have the kit to do whatever comes along means there'll always be someone who can do the same job more efficiently (and therefore better/cheaper) than you.

Second point is working capital. Let's say you decide to go into fitted kitchens, then you'll need the cash to fund everything from Blum cup hinges to granite worktops...and the money to keep body and soul together, because it'll be months before you receive any payments.


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## tomatwark (10 May 2012)

custard":1stdb5pa said:


> Second point is working capital. Let's say you decide to go into fitted kitchens, then you'll need the cash to fund everything from Blum cup hinges to granite worktops...and the money to keep body and soul together, because it'll be months before you receive any payments.



This very true as when you start off it will be quite hard to get 30 day accounts with suppliers.

I always take a deposit and then staged payments on a kitchen, leaving the smallest one to cover the fitting payable with any extras at the end.

This is always put in the quote, so the customer is aware of my terms.

I have only had one person refuse the deposit, and I then refused the job, he went onto another local firm who did the work without a deposit and then did not get paid at the end.

I do have clients who I trust and will wait till the end for payment, but they are also the ones who will come in to see how their piece is going and offer a payment on account anyway.

The other point is stock, if like me you are a long way from any of the big suppliers and will get charged delivery on small orders for some stuff, you may have to carry a bit of stock of the usual materials you use to get the price right by buying more.

Tom


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## tomatwark (10 May 2012)

It also helps to be able to make and fit 4 sets of wardrobes in the morning and a few gates in the afternoon.

Just like Alan ( mailee ) :lol: :lol: 

Tom


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## custard (10 May 2012)

Having "joinery" in the target rang some alarm bells. Yes, you can make a gate with hand tools, but the tooling alone for double glazed windows can easily exceed £10k.


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## shim20 (10 May 2012)

wow right, i am working at the moment full time and i am slowly building up a range of customers and doing the work at home and at work, im not doing this yet maybe a year or so time after ive saved a bit then take my hours down at work and do it that way, i have a van well a mk3 hilux pickup which will last me years, way i look at it if my boss can do it i could? he dosent get in till 11 and dosent do much all day and dosent know the meaning or organised, i stand around alot at work doing nothing as he hasent sorted materials etc out, i dont know how he dose it to be honest as we havent that much work on, anyways thanks all for the input :lol:


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## mailee (10 May 2012)

tomatwark":fwav4jda said:


> It also helps to be able to make and fit 4 sets of wardrobes in the morning and a few gates in the afternoon.
> 
> Just like Alan ( mailee ) :lol: :lol:
> 
> Tom


Oh Tom, that's an exaggeration! Only two sets of wardrobes in the morning. :lol: .....I wish.


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