# Tulip wood



## dchallender (13 May 2008)

I've been reading a lot lately about face frames on solid wood kitchen cupboards being made from tulip wood, I can't say I have used it before but is this the right material for a painted kitchen for instance?

Also is it expensive? and being based in deepest darkest Lancashire where would I get hold of some?

Hope you can help because after some research I still only have a rudimentary knowledge on this

Thanks in advance

Darren


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## BradNaylor (13 May 2008)

Tulipwood (also known as poplar) is often used on painted kitchens as it is fairly stable and takes a paint finish well. It is also pretty cheap.

However, it is also very soft - as soft as pine. This means that it dents very easily when knocked in use. More and more cabinetmakers are stopping using tulipwood as they consider it unsuitable for use in heavy usage areas such as kitchens. This is certainly my view.

Alternatives would be close grained hardwoods such as beech or maple. The cheapest and most suitable alternative if you can find it is low grade sycamore. This is a very hard white coloured wood from the maple family which has blemishes in it which makes it unappealing for use in its natural state but excellent for painting.

The man to contact is George at Hoghton Timber in Higher Walton, Preston
http://www.chorleyonline.com/directory/bus.asp?i=441930

He normally has some in stock - if not he will certainly have an alternative he can recommend. 

He doesn't stock tulipwood, though! He thinks it's rubbish!


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## Richard Findley (13 May 2008)

Hi Darren,

Dan is quite right about most of what he says. Tulip is however nice to work and stable in use. "...soft as pine..." may not be entirely right, in my experience it is quite tough, more like Lime or Sycamore.

It tends to be a green colour which is perhaps not what most customers wish to see which is why it's usually used for base work or for painting. I had a commission a couple of years ago for a furniture maker who wanted some pilasters turning in Tulip with a Barley Twist. I think they came out well, and this is my experience with this wood, hence my above opinion,

Cheers,

Richard


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## BradNaylor (13 May 2008)

Richard Findley":28hpwrls said:


> Dan is quite right about most of what he says. Tulip is however nice to work and stable in use. "...soft as pine..." may not be entirely right, in my experience it is quite tough, more like Lime or Sycamore.



With respect Richard, I think you may be looking at this from a turner's perspective rather trhan a cabinetmaker's.

I am sure that tulipwood is 'quite tough' when you have it on the lathe, but if you try sticking your thumbnail into a piece you will see exactly what I mean about it being soft.

I would far rather use MR MDF for the face frames and doors of a painted kitchen than tulipwood...

...and frequently have!








100% MDF!!!



Cheers
Dan


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## Richard Findley (13 May 2008)

Hi Dan,

Quite right, I've only worked it as a Woodturner, and trust me it was tough making those Barley Twists but point taken when comparing it to MDF (I know which I'd rather turn though. :wink: !) 

Nice work on that kitchen by the way,

Richard


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## salvage (13 May 2008)

Richard Findley":2niui6vf said:


> Hi Darren,
> 
> Dan is quite right about most of what he says. Tulip is however nice to work and stable in use. "...soft as pine..." may not be entirely right, in my experience it is quite tough, more like Lime or Sycamore.
> 
> ...



Nice Barleys Richard  

Oh and all the tulip I have in the rack is also considerably harder than pine
and tough when turned , maybe the source/quality varies enough to lead 
to this disagreement

Salvage


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## jasonB (14 May 2008)

As Dan says Tulip can be a bit on the soft side for heavy use areas, I use it for bookcased, wardrobes etc but for kitchens something harder like beech is a better bet either white or steamed.

Like Dan I have also used MR MDF for face frames in kitchens but if you intend to cut cock beads into the faceframe then MDF will tend to loose the bead, You can use MDF for the rectangular part then plant the bead onto this.

To say it's like lime & sycamore is not not really correct, lime is a very soft wood, thats why carvers like it and sycamore can be as hard as maple (unless its started spalting)

Jason


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## Steve Maskery (14 May 2008)

Dan
Is that large-ish cove on the underside of the mantle shelf MDF as well?

Very nice indeed.
S


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## Waka (14 May 2008)

dan

Any chance when you post pic's you can make them smaller?


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## TheDudester (14 May 2008)

Waka":2w96s64m said:


> dan
> 
> Any chance when you post pic's you can make them smaller?



I find that if I view the forums in 1024x768 resolution, with no sidebar, I don't need to scroll except for pictures.

I usuall post pictures at 800x600, but this does mean you need to scroll. I imagine something like 640x480 would negate the need to scroll.

I would rather see pictures like that than not.

Very nice work indeed.

D


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## BradNaylor (14 May 2008)

Steve Maskery":23vwdlrl said:


> Dan
> Is that large-ish cove on the underside of the mantle shelf MDF as well?
> 
> Very nice indeed.
> S



Damn. You got me!

The coving under the mantle and on the cornice is a tulipwood one I get machined up for this kind of job.

The dowels on the plate rack, the spindles, and the knobs are the only other bits that aren't MDF!

Dan


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## Steve Maskery (14 May 2008)

Dan Tovey":sfjg6toe said:


> 100% MDF!!!





Dan Tovey":sfjg6toe said:


> Damn. You got me!



:lol: 

Still nice though.
S


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## BradNaylor (14 May 2008)

Waka":24demzgb said:


> dan
> 
> Any chance when you post pic's you can make them smaller?



Sorry about that Waka - it came out fine on my screen. 


You can see more (smaller) photos of the same kitchen project here

https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/view ... 959#221959

Cheers
Dan


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## dchallender (14 May 2008)

Thanks folks for all the expert advice, I'm going to have a proper think about the wood I use. i'm now errring on the side of something harder and I'm going to buy a small batch of tulip wood and have a play with it anyway.

Many thanks

Darren


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## Richard Findley (14 May 2008)

Hi Guys,

The 3 timbers I mention in my above post work in similar ways, in my experience, hence the comparison I make. To reinforce my argument (not that this is an argument  :wink: !!!) I checked in my wood book for the average Specific Gravity of the timbers mentioned (SG is a measurement of density compared to water, an SG of 1 being equal to water, so a timber 1.1 would sink!! - this is a basic explanation but I believe that is about right  !)

European Sycamore = SG .61
Tulip (Common Poplar) = SG .51
Lime = SG .54

Beech = SG .72
European Oak = SG .72

I rest my case, your honour :wink: !!

Cheers,

Richard


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## Jake (14 May 2008)

I've never handled any Lime, but isn't it pretty soft for a hardwood? There's a pretty big leap to Sycamore, and Beech and Oak are pretty 'hard'. I think those figures might harm your case!


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## Richard Findley (14 May 2008)

Hi Jake,

Maybe thats why I'm a woodturner rather than a barrister  :lol: 

but in my defence those figures do show that Lime and Tulip are very similar and my comparison with Sycamore was more in the working properties. I showed Oak and Beech to show how much harder they are compared to the others....

Cheers,

Richard


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## BradNaylor (15 May 2008)

But surely the specific gravity is merely a measure of the weight or desnsity of the wood.

Granted, this may be an indication of hardness, but it is not absolute.

I have used tulipwood on many occasions and sycamore on several. Their specific gravities may be similar but I can assure you that sycamore is a lot harder than tulipwood.


Dan


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## jasonB (15 May 2008)

Depends whos book you take it from. One of mine:

Lime .39

North American poplar (tulip) .46 (Euro poplar is a different cattle of fish and won't be whats used for face frames, Nice bit of poplar burr is good for turning though :!: )

Sycamore .61

Beech .71

Jason


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## Jake (15 May 2008)

SG is an indicator, but the relationship seems to be quite tight (according to http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplrp/fpl_rp643.pdf).

The measure of timber 'hardness', seems to be Brinell or Janka hardness.

http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

Unfortunately that's a yank site, so it has Yank yellow poplar (i.e. "tulip") , which at 540lbs falls well below many of the pines , but not beech or european sycamore. 

Oaks (which I'd expect to be in about the same range as beech) are up in 1200-1500lb range. 

The only janka rating I could find on a quick surf for (our) sycamore was 1258lbs, here: http://www.kareliafloors.com/karelia-us ... ean_maple/
which site also gives beech at 1350lbs.

So pretty conclusive, on that rating at least.


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