# Strictly Come Rigging....



## Cozzer (16 Dec 2021)

For the few who don't know the BBC TV programme, it's a dance competition that runs week after week after week after week after wee....zzzzzzzzzz........ gradually eliminating the less talented and ending up with a champion who wins a plastic ball.
This year's final features the three couples who've survived a public vote and a sometimes acerbic judging panel. 
Ah....the great British public. Who will win?
It depends on who you listen to....
"Ah well, it's on the leftist BBC. They've been told to tow the line as regards diversity and all that. I reckon it'll be rigged, same as the Sports Personality of the Year..."

You get the picture.
This time round, the poor ol' Beeb can't fail to get lambasted whoever wins.....

"Ah well, it'll be the gays. It's the BBC. They'll fiddle it for the LGBT brigade..."
"Ah well, it'll be the deaf girl. It's the BBC. To support disabled people...."
"Ah well, it'll be the black girl. It's the BBC. Diversity and racism and all that stuff...."

What a suspicious bunch we are!


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## Trainee neophyte (16 Dec 2021)

Cozzer said:


> For the few who don't know the BBC TV programme, it's a dance competition that runs week after week after week after week after wee....zzzzzzzzzz........ gradually eliminating the less talented and ending up with a champion who wins a plastic ball.
> This year's final features the three couples who've survived a public vote and a sometimes acerbic judging panel.
> Ah....the great British public. Who will win?
> It depends on who you listen to....
> ...


Seems like the BBC has covered all bases, as only a minority can win. Pretty inclusive.

I can proudly confirm that I have never seen a single episode, and only an occasional clip. I don't seem to be suffering, so I will continue to completely ignore utterly pointless drivel on the telly. I have rather ruthlessly forbidden all soap operas in our house - she watches a lot of hospital dramas instead, and Hell's Kitchen, which I abhor but it is an small price to pay.


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## paulrbarnard (16 Dec 2021)

Cozzer said:


> For the few who don't know the BBC TV programme, it's a dance competition that runs week after week after week after week after wee....zzzzzzzzzz........ gradually eliminating the less talented and ending up with a champion who wins a plastic ball.
> This year's final features the three couples who've survived a public vote and a sometimes acerbic judging panel.
> Ah....the great British public. Who will win?
> It depends on who you listen to....
> ...


Alternatively it could actually go the the best dancer on the night. The standard this year has been exceptiopnaly good. Any of the remaining three would be a worthy winner.


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## Terry - Somerset (16 Dec 2021)

I can only agree with TN, despite the fondness of the other half for what I would classify as audio visual garbage.


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## Spectric (16 Dec 2021)

So to guarantee a win you need to be a one legged, black, deaf gay person as you then meet all the diversity criteria and then add a touch of wokyism for luck and you become untouchable.


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## jcassidy (16 Dec 2021)

You think you have it bad? The only way for an Irish person to get on British TV is to be gay or in drag.


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## J-G (16 Dec 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> Alternatively it could actually go the the best dancer on the night. The standard this year has been exceptiopnaly good. Any of the remaining three would be a worthy winner.


Strongly disagree!! The overall standard has been good but not as exceptional as the scoring would tend to indicate. There has been a 7½% positive swing in the scoring compared to the average for previous series. J&J have been well over-marked every week - they shouldn't have made even the quarter final.  so - in my opinion - would not be 'worthy winners'.


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## Yojevol (16 Dec 2021)

J-G said:


> Strongly disagree!! The overall standard has been good but not as exceptional as the scoring would tend to indicate. There has been a 7½% positive swing in the scoring compared to the average for previous series. J&J have been well over-marked every week - they shouldn't have made even the quarter final.  so - in my opinion - would not be 'worthy winners'.


Strongly disagree!! The overall standard has not only been good, but as exceptional as the scoring tends to indicate. There has been a justified 7½% positive swing in the scoring compared to the average for previous series. J&J have been well over-marked every week - they shouldn't have made even the semi final. Week: so - in my opinion - would not be 'worthy winners'.

Sorry J-G
Brian
Just about to watch Surgeons as a bit of light entertainment


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## scooby (16 Dec 2021)

I think they should give an award to the person who can actually manage to stay faithful to their wife, husband or partner (not dance partner) whilst partaking.


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## Phil Pascoe (16 Dec 2021)

I think they should give an award to the people who can actually manage to watch it.


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## Robbo3 (17 Dec 2021)

Not having watched for some years, I've recorded this year's episodes & whiz through the rubbish bits to watch the actual dancing - well that which can be seen through fog, special effects or pure bad camera work.
We tend to agree with the judges. Except when they are giving advice, comments can generally be ignored & the scores, again as a generalization, are a good aggregate. When Craig marks under another judge tends to balance it with a slightly better score than the dancers deserved.
The standard this year has been very high. I suspect that some of the competitors have had previous dance experience in some form or other. I also suspect that the producers are pushing the judges to dole out top marks to gain headlines.


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## J-G (17 Dec 2021)

Well - what a surprise! - NOT - I mean of course the negative response to my opinion  

No need for an apology Brian ☺ - - - Do you have a complete database of past marking from which you can quantify the relative change in the level? I somehow doubt it.  *I do * - every score awarded by every judge for every dance since 2004 series 1, along with every piece of music used and artist credited. Analyzed in many different ways.

I also had nearly 20 years of competitive Ballroom & Latin dancing experience so have a small claim to pertinent 'knowledge'.

I can see that you agree that John shouldn't be in the final - in my opinion he ought to have gone out the week Dan left but that was never going to happen for fear of a backlash from the LGBT community and he was pretty much guaranteed a place in the final just for signing up. We'll never know, but it is possible that if he had a female partner (as he originally wanted) he might have actually done much better than he has.

Rose & AJ are very much deserving of their places, they are both streets ahead of all the other celebs. Whether they are as good - or better - than the likes of Faye Tozer, Joe McFadden, Claudia Frangapane, Jay McGuinness, Caroline Flack et. al. is debatable though, which is why I question the comment that the standard this year is 'exceptional'.

I take it that you - Phil - have never danced - naturally I have seen reference to your physical condition - so that comment is not meant in any way to be negative. The spectacle of 'Dance' in any form really is uplifting to the spirit - whether taking part or observing - I would sooner do the former.


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## J-G (17 Dec 2021)

Robbo3 said:


> I suspect that some of the competitors have had previous dance experience in some form or other.


This 'chestnut' is irrelevant. Yes, any celebrity that has had any 'stage' training will have had some form of dance experience, but not in the form that Ballroom & Latin demands. John also had some dance school training even though not through 'stage' work, but it was as a young teenager and from his performance seems not to have been any advantage.


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## Phil Pascoe (17 Dec 2021)

J-G said:


> I take it that you - Phil - have never danced - naturally I have seen reference to your physical condition - so that comment is not meant in any way to be negative. The spectacle of 'Dance' in any form really is uplifting to the spirit - whether taking part or observing - I would sooner do the former.



Correct - a liking for dancing is as beyond my understanding as a liking for jazz or oysters.


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## clogs (17 Dec 2021)

my wife took the hint and watches soaps n dance plus other drivel when I'm not around......
I like to get to bed early as I'm the one who's up to feed the animals.....
so all is well.......
My one exception is anything Antiques and the NON celeb Ant/roadshow...

TN, 
see u've changed the avatar......nice peice of wood....looking for lumps like that here....hahaha.....
Have u seen you may get snow next week, curtesy of Siberia......?
Even shows a chance in Chania....!!!!!!!


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## paulrbarnard (17 Dec 2021)

J-G said:


> Well - what a surprise! - NOT - I mean of course the negative response to my opinion
> 
> No need for an apology Brian ☺ - - - Do you have a complete database of past marking from which you can quantify the relative change in the level? I somehow doubt it.  *I do * - every score awarded by every judge for every dance since 2004 series 1, along with every piece of music used and artist credited. Analyzed in many different ways.
> 
> ...


Ah there in sits the explanation. You are a dancer and are looking at it as a dance competition. Pretty much the same as many of us looked at Britains Best Woodworker. It’s not strictly about dancing, despite the title, it’s a public entertainment TV show. The moment the public gets to vote any assessment based on technical dance ability is lost. It comes down at that point to a feeling people get from watching the performance and that will indeed carry a lot of biases based on stereotypes and prejudices. The fact that the judges are able to slightly correct wrong public votes by picking one of two in the elimination stops it from being a pure popularity contest.

As an absolute non dancer who has watched pretty much every episode for years my opinion informed only by what I like is that this years show has been significantly better that previous ones.


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## Simritdave (17 Dec 2021)

Spectric said:


> So to guarantee a win you need to be a one legged, black, deaf gay person as you then meet all the diversity criteria and then add a touch of wokyism for luck and you become untouchable.


It would also be an advantage if you’ve just come out of jail and are wearing a tracker tag.


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## Sporky McGuffin (17 Dec 2021)

J-G said:


> The spectacle of 'Dance' in any form really is uplifting to the spirit - whether taking part or observing - I would sooner do the former.



I dunno. To me dancing is like that chap from the Jim Rose Circus who could lift weights with piercings through his bits, or top-level golf. Clearly a lot of skill involved, but unwatchable.


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## J-G (17 Dec 2021)

paulrbarnard said:


> As an absolute non dancer who has watched pretty much every episode for years my opinion informed only by what I like is that this years show has been significantly better that previous ones.


I'll agree with most of your comments Paul - certainly as far as it being a 'popularity' contest, subject to personal bias - I'm under no illusion on that score. 

This year is vastly superior to last, but much of that is due to that being a smaller show due to Covid restrictions and much of the 'perceived' improvement will be due to the contrast.

There are many who post on the BBC blogs that complain that they have never heard of some contestant so how can they be a 'celebrity' - I don't watch a great deal of TV, certainly not 'soaps', 'news' or 'daytime' so seldom know more than 2 or 3 any year. This means that I have no personal investment in any of them.

My opinion that this year has been not more than very good is based upon my analysis of the scores that I have awarded over the years compared with those awarded by the judges. This shows that my average marking is 0.6% higher than the judges average for all series but 5.38% lower this year and 4.57% lower last year - with the 'trend' showing that the judges have been steadily increasing their marking (R-squared = +0.48) whereas my scores show a decrease (R-squared = -0.02). I don't think that this can be attributed to a steady increase in the dance ability of the selected celebrities - just to a preponderance of over-marking!


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## stuart little (17 Dec 2021)

I thought it was about model ship building!


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## J-G (17 Dec 2021)

Sporky McGuffin said:


> I dunno. To me dancing is like that chap from the Jim Rose Circus who could lift weights with piercings through his bits, or top-level golf. Clearly a lot of skill involved, but unwatchable.


Watching most 'sport' I agree can be tedious - certainly Golf, Football, Rugby, Cricket - (have I offended a sufficient proportion of the readership?  ) but 'Dance' is an art-form (as well as a sport!). I can recommend watching the Spielberg re-make of West Side Story to get a lift from a dance spectacle.


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## Sporky McGuffin (17 Dec 2021)

It just doesn't do anything for me - I almost find it embarrassing to watch. I can appreciate the skill and co-ordination and fitness and so on involved, and I'm not knocking it for anyone who enjoys it.

Sorry - I try my best not to post about things I don't like, but I'm not a particularly good person.


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## Footplate2012 (17 Dec 2021)

I watch very little TV. I can safely sum up my entire TV viewing as follows: Moto GP and Isle of Man TT, Henry Cole shows, WWII & WWI Documentaries, Guy Martin's Whatever and war films.

And Strictly. I absolutely love it. That joyful three month orgy of spray tan and glitter gets me through the grim reality that is September to December in Northern England. I think this year, for once, the best four couples made it to the last four. Rose will win, even if it's for no other reason than me personally ringing up the voting line 6000 times. I'm with Anton, I cry every time I watch her dance. The reason I cry is because she makes me feel like I'm watching one of my own kids. I don't know why. I think John has been brilliant, especially for a such a big bloke. Also because his partnership with Johannes caused a certain demographic to lose their s**t. AJ is now out of it because of her injury.

When I was about 17, my parents revisited their ballroom dancing days from their youth and joined a club in the local town.
When Mum wasn't around, Dad said to me " You want to get yourself down there son. It's full of young women that have to dance with each other because there's literally no young blokes at all".

Did I listen to my old man? Of course not. Do I regret that? Damn right I do.


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## ian33a (18 Dec 2021)

I cant dance but I enjoy Strictly - one of the few series that I continue to watch on terrestrial television. 

The contestants need to appeal to a variety of viewers - a diverse range of contestants increases viewing figures (which the BBC wants) and increases charity donations or Children In Need (which I hope everybody wants).

If the judges vote in a biased or unbiased way, I have no idea, I am not a dance expert. If the public votes in a biased or unbiased way, I'd suggest yes, just like any mass audience show, they vote for the ones they like, often independently of their talent. There's nothing new in that. It could be argued that it adds to the appeal.


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## RobinBHM (18 Dec 2021)

There’s a new saying:

never discuss politics, religion or strictly come dancing


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## JobandKnock (18 Dec 2021)

J-G said:


> Watching most 'sport' I agree can be tedious - certainly Golf, Football, Rugby, Cricket - (have I offended a sufficient proportion of the readership?  ) but 'Dance' is an art-form (as well as a sport!). I can recommend watching the Spielberg re-make of West Side Story to get a lift from a dance spectacle.


Surprised you missed "All That Jazz", or doesn't that count. My ex made me see that - twice


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## Linus (18 Dec 2021)

I don't dance but I remember a sage friend of mine who said " Dancing is a pre-mating ritual, and if there is no mating going to happen then why waste the energy"


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## J-G (18 Dec 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Surprised you missed "All That Jazz", or doesn't that count. My ex made me see that - twice


Oh yes, that 'Counts' but is hardly current (late 70's I think)


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## Peter Sefton (18 Dec 2021)

What a beautiful and talented girl Rose is and a very worthy winner!


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## ian33a (18 Dec 2021)

Peter Sefton said:


> What a beautiful and talented girl Rose is and a very worthy winner!



Totally agree!


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## Stevekane (18 Dec 2021)

Linus said:


> I don't dance but I remember a sage friend of mine who said " Dancing is a pre-mating ritual, and if there is no mating going to happen then why waste the energy"


I heard dancing once described as “the vertical manifestation of horizontal desires” which is just a fancy way to repeating what you said,,


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## woodieallen (19 Dec 2021)

I have long realised that there are two groups of people in this world. There are those in one group who light up a room as soon as they enter. Rose is definitely in that group. 

However, it would seem that the majority of posters in this thread are intent in remaining in the other.


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## clogs (19 Dec 2021)

I've had a go at ballroom dancing and quite enjoyed it....
even tripping over to my late partners feet.....
some old guy about 80 said get up and carry on......hahaha.....

I would watch it but I find that the know all-know nothing judges just ruin the show.....
Like all those kinda shows.....not interested in self appointed experts.....
Especially I dont need an opinion from a (Northern Delacacy) showing his, it, her female 1/2...


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## woodieallen (19 Dec 2021)

clogs said:


> ....
> 
> I would watch it but I find that the know all-know nothing judges just ruin the show.....
> Like all those kinda shows.....not interested in self appointed experts.....
> ...



Before confirming your bigotry and showing us your prejudices, why don't you do some research and look at the biographies of the judges ?


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## Cabinetman (20 Dec 2021)

woodieallen said:


> Before confirming your bigotry and showing us your prejudices, why don't you do some research and look at the biographies of the judges ?


That’s a bit harsh. Just curious woodieallen, what sort of age are you pls?


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## flying haggis (20 Dec 2021)

Well done to Rose and Giovanni. And good for Rose in not accepting money to promote hearing aid selling companies and praising the NHS for looking after her.


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## Suffolkboy (20 Dec 2021)

I was really hoping this was going to be an announcement of a ritzy new programme dedicated to fine rope work.


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## clogs (20 Dec 2021)

Suffolkboy, 
I'm with u.....
I still use the knots I learnt in Scouts.....

woodieallen,
it's the rubbish that comes out of their Gxb's that annoy's me.......regardless of experience.....
just look at Cameron and Corbin.....just the same ilk.....


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## woodieallen (20 Dec 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> That’s a bit harsh. Just curious woodieallen, what sort of age are you pls?


I don't think it harsh at all. Coming out with a sweeping generalisation such as 'self-appointed experts' without bothering to actually do any research into their credentials. 

My age is irrelevant.


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## woodieallen (20 Dec 2021)

clogs said:


> .....
> 
> woodieallen,
> it's the rubbish that comes out of their Gxb's that annoy's me.......regardless of experience.....
> just look at Cameron and Corbin.....just the same ilk.....



You do like your sweeping generalisations, I'll say that for you.


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## Cabinetman (20 Dec 2021)

Just wondered if you’re a snowflake or a grumpy old git like the rest of us.


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## woodieallen (20 Dec 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> Just wondered if you’re a snowflake or a grumpy old git like the rest of us.


LOL !


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## paulrbarnard (20 Dec 2021)

woodieallen said:


> LOL !


Ah ha. Use of LOL suggests your not a grumpy old git and probably just topping out of the snowflake generation ;-)


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## penyrolewen (21 Dec 2021)

Trainee neophyte said:


> Seems like the BBC has covered all bases, as only a minority can win. Pretty inclusive.
> 
> I can proudly confirm that I have never seen a single episode, and only an occasional clip. I don't seem to be suffering, so I will continue to completely ignore utterly pointless drivel on the telly. I have rather ruthlessly forbidden all soap operas in our house - she watches a lot of hospital dramas instead, and Hell's Kitchen, which I abhor but it is an small price to pay.



“Forbidden”.

Hope ‘she’ gets to forbid things that you would like to do but that she doesn’t enjoy too.

Also, why are you proud that there is a tv programme that you don’t like? Pointless to you perhaps but, guess what, they don’t make the schedules purely based on your likes.


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## Terry - Somerset (21 Dec 2021)

There are lots of reasons to watch - the competition, the dancing, fit women in slinky outfits, the obvious talent of most competitors.

But for me the dancing just does not do it. I have no interest. We all probably have that which we are interested in - for me it is motorsport, cricket some cookery, and the occassional football match. Others will find dancing, tennis, darts etc etc utterly absorbing. 

I also think that too many programmes select participants based upon their minority status - blind, deaf, gay, trans, disabled etc. No problem with this, and in some cases they have real challenges to overcome - but the end result is that "normal" people actually become marginalised.

It is the "action" I find interesting - pre-match speculation, post match analysis, competitor gossip, manufactured excitement, trivia etc bore me rigid. Strictly, just like celebrity ....... whatever it is ....... surrounds the action with associated tedium which bedevils most similar TV.


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## Delwood (21 Dec 2021)

Stevekane said:


> I heard dancing once described as “the vertical manifestation of horizontal desires” which is just a fancy way to repeating what you said,,


or a navel engagement without loss of semen.


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## Richard_C (21 Dec 2021)

I can understand why some people enjoy it, I can see why others don't. I don't watch it, but millions do.

Why are some people here getting so cross about some of it it ? It's entertainment - inconsequential in the scheme of things, a made-up world. You might as well get cross with the Dr Who production team for rigging thinsg so the Daleks always lose.

If you have the energy to get cross with someone, get cross about something that matters.


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## J-G (21 Dec 2021)

Terry - Somerset said:


> I also think that too many programmes select participants based upon their minority status - blind, deaf, gay, trans, disabled etc. No problem with this, and in some cases they have real challenges to overcome - but the end result is that "normal" people actually become marginalised.


The voice of reason there Terry. With only 15 contestants (most years) it is extremely difficult to get an appropriate cross section. That means that each contestant has to represent 6.67% of the population. When you then appreciate that the estimate of the deaf population in the UK is 1 in 2000, for a proportionate representation there ought to be only one deaf contestant in 133 years !!

Similar facts could be drawn for the LGBT community though here it would mean NOT having someone from that section every 9 years (ish). Physical disability can create other problems in the case of the Ballroom & Latin styles where there is a basic need to be able to stand and Lauren Steadman & Jonnie Peacock have proved that it is possible for that section of the community to be represented - to what degree it is impossible to estimate. Apologies to anyone who feels that statement to be 'clumsy'.

Ethnicity is much more complex so I'll not even speculate how many - whatever is the current appropriate adjective - people should be considered correct. It will always be higher than seems 'in proportion' as the whole advertising fraternity have found.


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## Footplate2012 (21 Dec 2021)

There doesn't need to be a mathematically appropriate cross section. Representation is the thing that matters. It matters a lot for the people of those communities, who are also, don't forget, TV licence payers, tax payers etc. 
The inclusion of people with disabilities has added a huge amount to the programme. Rose has proved that this year. I hardly think "normal" people have been marginalised when in fact the majority of the contestants are "normal". Whatever that is.


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## doctor Bob (21 Dec 2021)

I think if we just switched on the tv to watch, Strictly, then would we really count Black faces, number of disabled people etc, surely you'd just watch it for performance. Sure I get that you'd know there was a same sex couple, people of colour but I'm convinced it's media which whip up hysteria around these issues. People are people, I think people should be defined as good or bad, and thats about it. Not being self righteous as I think generally that's most peoples outlook, spoilt by a few and over cooked by the media.

I have a Black Guyana friend who was at school in the uk with me, I haven't seen him for 35+ years but he's coming to stay at mine for a week next year, that will cause a few raised eyebrows in the village....................... in 1981 there appeared to be little racism at school, lets hope it hasn't gone backwards over the years.


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## Trainee neophyte (21 Dec 2021)

penyrolewen said:


> Hope ‘she’ gets to forbid things that you would like to do but that she doesn’t enjoy too.


Of course she does - she's my _wife_. It's what wives do.


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## RobinBHM (21 Dec 2021)

Richard_C said:


> Why are some people here getting so cross about some of it it ?


GOGS

Grumpy Old……….drone


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## RobinBHM (21 Dec 2021)

Strictly is the same as Xfactor, I’m a celebrity get me out here, the bake off etc…..they are a hybrid of a scripted drama, live show and talent show.

Its a clever formula because watching amateurs learning is far more engaging than watching professionals.


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## Richard_C (21 Dec 2021)

RobinBHM said:


> GOGS
> 
> Grumpy Old……….drone



Simply don't understand what you are saying. Are you just being rude about my post? If so can you please be more explicitly rude so we can all understand your point. 

Thanks.


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## Yojevol (21 Dec 2021)

RobinBHM said:


> Strictly is the same as Xfactor, I’m a celebrity get me out here, the bake off etc…..they are a hybrid of a scripted drama, live show and talent show.
> 
> Its a clever formula because watching amateurs learning is far more engaging than watching professionals.


In this case, SCD, I find the professionals are just as engaging as the amateurs (aka celebs). In fact, for me anyway, it's the combination of the two. When it works the the results can be wonderful and beautiful. In this series the pairings have been particularly strong and the results have been outstanding. 
Oh to have had AJ in the final. She was a great loss to the show.
Brian


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## woodieallen (23 Dec 2021)

RobinBHM said:


> Strictly is the same as Xfactor, I’m a celebrity get me out here, the bake off etc…..they are a hybrid of a scripted drama, live show and talent show.
> 
> Its a clever formula because watching amateurs learning is far more engaging than watching professionals.


I couldn't agree less. You are confusing so many different programme types. 

X-Factor...one of dross. It holds little of any interest for me as it seems to me they are simply cannon-fodder for YABB. Yet Another Boy Band,

I'm a celebrity....facile. Total lack of any talent or development of any talent throughout the series.

Bake Off is a little bit better.

Strictly is in a completely different league. You can see the development of contestants in their dancing and presentation skills as the weeks go by.

But...if you can't see that or dance holds little interest for you then ........


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## Cabinetman (24 Dec 2021)

Richard_C said:


> Simply don't understand what you are saying. Are you just being rude about my post? If so can you please be more explicitly rude so we can all understand your point.
> 
> Thanks.


You asked why some people get upset about it, and he replied that they are just grumpy old gits- I think.
Must remember that, asking someone to be more explicitly rude so that you can understand his point – nice! Ian


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