# How To Polish



## kevin dwyer (19 Mar 2012)

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## [email protected] (22 Mar 2012)

one rule never covers all. finishing as a subject is vast with so many variables to take into account - whats good for one job will look rubbish on another. Vandyke and sealer can work ok but is far from a universal finish...


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## yetloh (22 Mar 2012)

Not a finish I would use, for several reasons. First, why the Vandyke crystals? I prefer to let the wood speak for itself rather than colouring it to represent something it is not. If you are doing a repair to an antique, OK but otherwise, I can't see the point.

Second, a coat of wax will only give a transient alteration to the finish which will need to be renewed. For the sort of low wear situation for which this finish might be used, I would apply three or four coats of shellac, then cut it back with wire wool and burnish to the level of sheen desired which, unlike a wax sheen, will last indefinitely.

Jim


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## kevin dwyer (24 Mar 2012)

Think you guys missed the point completely, the post is aimed at helping people learn to polish. since you ask why vandyke because they cost £5 for enough stain to make gallons and it doesn't pull when spirit based lacquer is applied.


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## Blister (24 Mar 2012)

How did you get the darker stripes running across the top and down the leg ?

nice effect


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## kevin dwyer (24 Mar 2012)

hi blister, that's just the sun thru the blinds !


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## [email protected] (24 Mar 2012)

theres a knack to using vandyke crystals and the main problem with them is that the staining effect is only very subtle unless you mix it very strong. Its the staple staining product in the furniture restoration trade as you can replicate original hues very successfully and you can also put it on very very thick and brush it out leaving almost an opaque film of colour. As mentioned, it doesnt drag off when brush polished as it has a sticky nature. Dilution strentgh of the crystals is critical otherwise all you will get is orange. Its quite a specialised product to use....


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## yetloh (24 Mar 2012)

kevin dwyer":3t3yz3cj said:


> Think you guys missed the point completely, the post is aimed at helping people learn to polish. since you ask why vandyke because they cost £5 for enough stain to make gallons and it doesn't pull when spirit based lacquer is applied.



Not at all. I was merely pointing out that there is what I consider to be a better solution. I wasn't asking why you use vandyke crystals in preference to anything else, but why you think it necessary to use any sort of stain. I also use them on the very rare occasions when I do stain; at my rate of usage I have enough for at least 100 years.

Jim


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## kevin dwyer (24 Mar 2012)

This old chair, 1840 ish has a new front leg in oak and four inches of new seat to the far side, some mahogany I joined onto the existing elm. It's original legs are beech, arm rests are mahogany, spindles above the seat were oak and back was beech. So in order to give an eveness of appearance it's stained but not too much and I would have preferred it slightly warmer.


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## yetloh (24 Mar 2012)

Looks great. An entirely appropriate situation for staining.

Jim


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## [email protected] (24 Mar 2012)

the pic is saturated - its hard to see how it looks in real life! No amount of staining will make one wood look like another eg mahogany v elm and oak v beech. Its more important to get the timbers right in the first place....


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## kevin dwyer (24 Mar 2012)

Hi Matt, I've really no idea what this has to do with me giving some basic advice on a traditional polish finish to beginners. If you don't like like it so what.


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## Phil Pascoe (25 Mar 2012)

Staining and polish / finish are slighty different things. I'm sure the auctioneer will appreciate the splicing of mahogany to elm.


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## soulboy (25 Mar 2012)

kevin dwyer":3naqpe3y said:


> Hi Matt, I've really no idea what this has to do with me giving some basic advice on a traditional polish finish to beginners. If you don't like like it so what.



think what the other posters are hinting at is the tone & quality of your advice, you sound pretty made up over a very basic bit of colouring, which is ok but then passing it on to someone else as THE way to polish. If you bothered to take a look at Matt's posts he has a depth of knowledge which makes yours look un-vandyked by comparison.
phil.p is hinting at absolute travesty of splicing mahog to elm on a chair you estimate at being more than 150 years old, then vandyking it up to look new thus devalueing it!
these other posters have been trying to give YOU some basic advice, if you don't like what they are posting, so what?
hope this helps, chris.


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## kevin dwyer (25 Mar 2012)

why would the antique restoring master want your advice chris ?


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## Woodfinish Man (27 Mar 2012)

The simple answer for all beginners is to get themselves on our 1 day french polishing course They will learn all about working with spirit stains, water stains, grain fillers, sanding sealer, french polish and wax....all in one day. It's a no brainer!

Ian


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## kevin dwyer (27 Mar 2012)

sounds more like product placement to me ..


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## yetloh (27 Mar 2012)

Just because it comes from someone in the business who really knows what he is talking about (and having read his advice here for years, I know that to be true) it doesn't mean it is bad advice.

Jim


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## kevin dwyer (27 Mar 2012)

it's a joke jim, really don't know how you guys can take this stuff so seriously. I spent years working for an antique restoring factory, stripping furniture outside all year long after which I'd do the woodwork, stain it and then pretty much all of it got sprayed. If I wasn't doing that I'd be cutting sheet material and timber for a for a timber yard and another year was spent flatting and polishing for a veneer factory. 

You guys seem to be arguing the toss about a simple method for beginners.


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## soulboy (4 Apr 2012)

kevin dwyer":3grl502p said:


> why would the antique restoring master want your advice chris ?



I wasn't offering any. who might this restoring master be? you?
I guess the reason why we guys take it seriously is because if not lots more pieces of valuable furniture could be spoiled by stripping, van dyking and poorly finishing. Your past experience doesn't qualify you to give basic advice on traditional finishing, you probably haven't done any in your furniture factories as spraying then flatting is modern practice.


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## kevin dwyer (4 Apr 2012)

well soulboy, you can bow to the master if you want to, of course if you don't, well you stay stupid, that's life. It's not your thread, so why don't you go and run your thinly veiled abuse game somewhere else.


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

kevin dwyer":26vm3eaz said:


> it's a joke jim, really don't know how you guys can take this stuff so seriously. I spent years working for an antique restoring factory, stripping furniture outside all year long after which I'd do the woodwork, stain it and then pretty much all of it got sprayed. If I wasn't doing that I'd be cutting sheet material and timber for a for a timber yard and another year was spent flatting and polishing for a veneer factory.
> 
> You guys seem to be arguing the toss about a simple method for beginners.


The stuff I've seen posted, to be frank...I wouldn't give house room to, sorry. That you've been working in a factory all day stripping stuff and applying a very basic finish is evident. If you really want to '_up the game_' I'd pay heed to the excellent advice given by others in this thread. For any concerns regarding the history of furniture and polishing in general you'd find no better source than my very good pal Mike Huntley who was for some years the Head of Restoration at Sotheby's in London...and it doesn't get much better than that - Rob


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## kevin dwyer (4 Apr 2012)

How dim can you be ? What on earth has Sothebys got to do with a one off piece of furniture someone has made or restored ? I carefully framed this piece to very clear cut to avoid all the moronic views that are possible and yet, here they all are, popping out of the woodwork. Your view of superior essence is delusional. Stop being a cry baby, grow up and do some work.


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## yetloh (4 Apr 2012)

That's just the point, choice of finish is not clear cut. It depends on tha application and what suits the individual.

Jim


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## woodbloke (4 Apr 2012)

kevin dwyer":14ikinck said:


> How dim can you be ? What on earth has Sothebys got to do with a one off piece of furniture someone has made or restored ? I carefully framed this piece to very clear cut to avoid all the moronic views that are possible and yet, here they all are, popping out of the woodwork. Your view of superior essence is delusional. Stop being a cry baby, grow up and do some work.


Oh dear  You seem to be setting yourself up as a finishing guru, when as Jim has rightly pointed out, not all finishing requirements are the same. I refrained from commenting on the work posted on the Projects section of the forum at the time as it seemed to me, at least, be very low grade. If you take the trouble to post stuff on a public forum then please be prepared to take incoming flack as well as the plaudits. As to work that I've done, there's plenty of it on here if you'd care to do a search and I think you'll find that it's a tolerable standard. I finished with this particular thread as there's very little else that I can usefully contribute. Your previous post btw has been reported to the mods...

...as has the odious one below - Rob


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## kevin dwyer (4 Apr 2012)

Well i've never met you Rob and you start off by by being plain insulting of my work so that's what you're going to get back. Why you claim to be some gret woodworker and spend your time reading a basic thread only with the intention of critising it would relate to what I have already said that you need to be doing something better with your time. Not really sure how many times I have to repeat what this thread is about. I'm interested in production, i'm interested in furniture not ending up in landfills. If that's too complex for your self admiration, so be it. I've spent more than enough time repairing veneers on expensive furniture. If you don't have the confidence to come out and help other people it's becuse you're just some kind of sly cheat ; Hence the whole rediculous I'm not going to say any more da da da.


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## deserter (4 Apr 2012)

Kevin, I have to put my 2 pence worth in here. I think your attitude stinks, the people on this forum try to be as helpful as possible, most of us work in the trade or produce excellent work as a hobby. 
The finish you are recommending here is not something I would recommend to anyone , if I were to suggest using sanding sealer in this way at work I'd have my p45 handed to me as I was kick through the open door way. 
But that aside if some one feels they don't agree with you, it's not right for you to retort in such a personal manner, if you want to debate the virtues of what your saying that's fine but let's be a little adult about it. The way you instantly bad mouthed Rob makes me feel that you know very little about a topic you are professing to be an expert at, and as rob has written already some of your other posts prove this point.


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## [email protected] (4 Apr 2012)

Woodfinish Man":3qfpigyc said:


> The simple answer for all beginners is to get themselves on our 1 day french polishing course They will learn all about working with spirit stains, water stains, grain fillers, sanding sealer, french polish and wax....all in one day. It's a no brainer!
> 
> Ian



and the prize for the most useful post on this thread goes to the above  

....thats if I was in a position to give a prize before anyone asks - which I'm blantantly not :roll:


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## James C (6 Apr 2012)

I actually came to this thread looking for some helpful advice as I am admittedly still very much a beginner, especially when it comes to finishing. I liked the ideas you put forward but definitely not your attitude.

I do sometimes give advice on this forum but when someone knows more than me, which tends to be more often than not, gives a correction, I'm happy to learn from it and move on. It's a shame that someone like yourself who claims to want to offer advice can't actually take it himself.


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## Lons (7 Apr 2012)

I read your thread when it was first posted and admit I found it interesting reading even though it is not a method I would use personally (just my choice). So taken at face value, a useful post but then you showed your immaturity by vehemently responding to comments made by other members.

This suggests that either you are somewhat naive to think that posting an apparently definitive finishing guide wouldn't provoke response or is it just the bullying tactics of someone who can't take what he dishes out?

I am not qualified to comment on your methods but experienced enough to know there are as many different ways as days of the year. I read your post because I am always intreaged by other workers methods and am willing to learn. Great shame your attitude spoils that.

Bob


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