# Keeping Warm in the work shop



## nodnostik (5 Dec 2011)

The cold weather is upon us, I am really feeling the cold this year. In the past I have used electric heating to try and keep a modicum of warmth in the shop. This option is now getting very expensive and I am wondering what systems others use to heat the shop. I had looked at fitting a stove (wood or coal burning) cost of a suitable stove seems reasonable. cost of Flue components seems to be very very expensive, often more than the value of the stove. Plus I am not sure I will generate enough waste to keep it going. LPG I understand creates a lot of condensation (rust).
Any suggestions will be welcomed.
Cheers
Don


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## jumps (5 Dec 2011)

your choices really come down to - 

keeping it heated, which may include a residual level and an increased operational level, or alternatively you can just heat yourself with a radiant heater - the latter works better if you are generally working at the bench rather than all over the shop (then again you could install more than 1).

if you have a lot of cast iron and motors, so to speak, you will probably want to go along the former route, and ensure you have the right levels of ventilation and insulation. If these are done right the amount of energy required to heat is going to be so so much lower.......poor insulation and you can get through a lot of wood, coal, gas, electricity, oil - whatever - and still feel a chill.

the cost of the flue put me off that route. unfortunately I did so well at creating a warm comfortable environment (oil filled electric rad) my wife decided she would have her office in the shop, and any tools producing dust now have to be used outside (they are all on wheels) which has taken me full circle back and I am about to install a radiant heater outside (when I decide which one). I'm happy working in old ski salopettes but my hands get cold...


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## nev (5 Dec 2011)

how about a sawdust burning stove? generally something i am not short of in the shop  
make your own (hammer) ...
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yo ... Stove.aspx
http://autonopedia.org/crafts_and_techn ... Stove.html
and plenty of vids on ewe tube.

or buy one :shock: 
http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burn ... stove.html

havent tried one yet but i will when i find a suitable paint can :mrgreen:


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## Lowlife (5 Dec 2011)

A woodburner would seem a good choice, I used to live on a boat and installed a small cast iron one, bought from a narrowboat chandlery in Rickmansworth, it was less than a couple of hundred quid with a steel flue, it chucked out a lot of heat and warmed the place up very quickly.

I find most small workshop heaters take too long to get up to a comfortable temp, which stops you going down there just for an hour or so as it hardly seems worth it, or else they're just to expensive to run.


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## Sawyer (5 Dec 2011)

I find my jack plane and 28" 3 tpi hand ripsaw pretty effective for keeping warm!  

Seriously though, the woodburning stove route seems the most tempting except I always worry about the fire risk.


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## L2wis (5 Dec 2011)

nev":dvo6fdqc said:


> how about a sawdust burning stove? generally something i am not short of in the shop
> make your own (hammer) ...
> http://www.motherearthnews.com/Do-It-Yo ... Stove.aspx
> http://autonopedia.org/crafts_and_techn ... Stove.html
> ...



Great link nev! Let us all know how you get on! I really like the idea but I'd be really cautious of carbon monoxide build up. Would you have a shed door open to allow ventilation? Ventilating somewhere your trying to heat seems like it could make the heating part trickier.


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## mike s (5 Dec 2011)

L2wis":3th5rn40 said:


> nev":3th5rn40 said:
> 
> 
> > how about a sawdust burning stove? generally something i am not short of in the shop
> ...




you can buy devices that sense carbon monoxide levels
its like a smoke alarm


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## L2wis (5 Dec 2011)

Cracking idea  well worth a purchase!


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## hughie (5 Dec 2011)

I have design that is bit more complicated, these are great and very easy to build. cheers


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## Jacob (6 Dec 2011)

Underwear could be the way. 
It's got a lot better since the days of Damart. Outdoor gear - Helly Hansen etc, climbing shops. Plus socks, bobble hat, fingerless gloves. Multiple thin layers rather than thick old jumpers.


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## nodnostik (6 Dec 2011)

Thanks for all the suggestions and help, as always the forum comes up with the goods.
I think I will have a go at the sawdust burner , it looks simple and from comments they look to be quite efficient .
Hughie, you mentioned a good design for a sawdust burner, can we have more details please.
Cheers.
Don


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## Lowlife (6 Dec 2011)

They do sound good and I'd be interested to see other designs too, my problem is that I don't actually produce that much sawdust, more shavings and chips so I'd either need a slightly different design that would burn that fuel, or I'd have to find a source of sawdust to mix with the shavings.

We produce a lot of sawdust at work, but we work with lots of different materials so the wood dust is contaminated with acrylic and other plastics, so obviously not suitable for burning.


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## nev (6 Dec 2011)

Lowlife":1g1c79fx said:


> We produce a lot of sawdust at work, but we work with lots of different materials so the wood dust is contaminated with acrylic and other plastics, so obviously not suitable for burning.



still ok for burning, just just not so good for breathing :mrgreen:


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## alexf (6 Dec 2011)

This week in Lidl they had winter overalls for under £20 . These are quilted boiler suits and being slippy material inside are far easier to get on and off than a normal boiler suit. I expected it to feel bulky but isn't and is very comfortable and warm.


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## loz (6 Dec 2011)

Jacob":1werm3mj said:


> Underwear could be the way.
> It's got a lot better since the days of Damart. Outdoor gear - Helly Hansen etc, climbing shops. Plus socks, bobble hat, fingerless gloves. Multiple thin layers rather than thick old jumpers.



Can we BAN the recommendation of gloves in the lathes forums please !


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## chipmunk (6 Dec 2011)

While I'd agree, I'd also argue that cold numb fingers, without feeling, are also hazardous and more likely to cause injury/become injured - DAMHIKT ;-)

Perhaps we need someone to make fingerless gloves out of safety cloth ;-)
Jon


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## L2wis (6 Dec 2011)

Jokes aside Jon but I think that's a good idea!


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## duncanh (6 Dec 2011)

Also make sure that your workshop has decent insulation. My shed has 5cm thick rock wool slabs on walls, floors and ceiling. On the walls and floor it's behind chipboard and the ceiling it's behind hardboard. Once the place is up to temperature it stays there fairly well for the session.
I also find that my camvac extractor outputs a lot of heat so to get the place hot quickly I stick that on for 5 minutes. In that time it raises the temperature at least 5C.
My main heating is an oil filled radiator which has a frost protection thermostat. I turn it up and then head back inside to give it a while to heat up.


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## Melinda_dd (6 Dec 2011)

Unfortunately, my workshop is so tiny, there's barely room for me in it, so any heating methods are out!
It has no insulation, minimum thickness t&g cladding... with designer holes and a leaking window!
If I had my way it'd rip it down and start again but sadly... renting!

In my 'w' I am currently wearing a pair of jeans with craghopper quilted trousers over the top, a thermal long sleaved top with polo t shirt over the top, and a fleece.

The only thing i haven't yet mastered is keeping the feet warm. I've tried 1 pair of thin socks and trainers, 2 pairs of thin socks and trainers, 1 pair of thick socks and trainers...... to no avail.
Today was 1 pair of thermal socks and my steel toe boots... slightly better, but still not toasty!


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## kirkpoore1 (6 Dec 2011)

Electric socks?







Kirk


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## Jonzjob (6 Dec 2011)

Melinda, walking boots and socks are the Bs kneeze! 

I used to stand on the side of 600 foot high hills in 30 mph winds at sub zero temps all for my hobby of flying radio controlled gliders on the outskirts of Stroud. Chas will be able to tell you what the hills are like. I had walking boots and walking socks on and I don't remember getting froze-toez so they should/will be OK in a workshop with only relatively likkle 'oles for the wind and cold to get in.

Keep on turning out the good stuff gal !! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## L2wis (6 Dec 2011)

Melinda_dd":2sbp0ugp said:


> The only thing i haven't yet mastered is keeping the feet warm. I've tried 1 pair of thin socks and trainers, 2 pairs of thin socks and trainers, 1 pair of thick socks and trainers...... to no avail.
> Today was 1 pair of thermal socks and my steel toe boots... slightly better, but still not toasty!



My feet get frozen too!


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## duncanh (7 Dec 2011)

How about these insoles from Maplin for £14.99 in the sale?

If your workshop floor is concrete then put something over it - chipboard, old carpet, foam matting.


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## nev (7 Dec 2011)

I,m waiting for my local tile place to close down then i'll make them an offer for that demo underfloor tile heater they have on the counter


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## Jonzjob (7 Dec 2011)

I normally wear a pair of clogs when I'm in my workshop and I don't get cold feet. They aren't wooden soled, but thickish rubber and very comfortable. The temps here can get well below freezing in the winter. That was quite a surprise for us because we are only 150m up so not high.


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## OldWood (7 Dec 2011)

Any floor is all the better for a bit more insulation, so if you can get to Costco, or scrounge someone's ticket, get a pack of their clip together rubber matting (I'm sure it's available elsewhere too). It's about £10-12 for something like 10 x 600mm square tiles industrial grade rubber foam at least 10mm thick. Insulates, is easy to walk on and sweep and protects falling tools !

Rob


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## jumps (7 Dec 2011)

OldWood":1owfbqhd said:


> Any floor is all the better for a bit more insulation, so if you can get to Costco, or scrounge someone's ticket, get a pack of their clip together rubber matting (I'm sure it's available elsewhere too). It's about £10-12 for something like 10 x 600mm square tiles industrial grade rubber foam at least 10mm thick. Insulates, is easy to walk on and sweep and protects falling tools !
> 
> Rob



this sounds too good to be true......(that's not a slur Rob, it's a 'where can I get some that isn't costco!)

quick troll round the net failed to show anything


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## Jacob (7 Dec 2011)

Melinda_dd":16i4qdh6 said:


> ...
> The only thing i haven't yet mastered is keeping the feet warm. I've tried 1 pair of thin socks and trainers, 2 pairs of thin socks and trainers, 1 pair of thick socks and trainers...... to no avail.
> Today was 1 pair of thermal socks and my steel toe boots... slightly better, but still not toasty!


You need some good outdoor walking boots along with thick wool socks which you might have to pay quite a bit for from an outdoor shop. But you get what you pay for - they tend to be warmer, more comfortable and longer lasting then working boots.
Buy them loose fitting, half to one size over, to allow for expanding feet when you stand (or walk) around a lot, and thick socks.


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## OldWood (7 Dec 2011)

jumps":31sdqefj said:


> OldWood":31sdqefj said:
> 
> 
> > Any floor is all the better for a bit more insulation, so if you can get to Costco, or scrounge someone's ticket, get a pack of their clip together rubber matting (I'm sure it's available elsewhere too). It's about £10-12 for something like 10 x 600mm square tiles industrial grade rubber foam at least 10mm thick. Insulates, is easy to walk on and sweep and protects falling tools !
> ...



"Interlocking floor mats" seems to be the thing to search on but none of the sites I'm finding approach Costco's price - maybe they've gone up significantly since in the last 5 years, or my memory is failing faster than I thought. 

Rob


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## Philip Streeting (7 Dec 2011)

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... p+flooring


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## jumps (7 Dec 2011)

Philip Streeting":2ufdin29 said:


> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l2736&_nkw=rubber+workshop+flooring



(homer) thanks - ebay 1 google 0........


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## Melinda_dd (7 Dec 2011)

Jacob":lokawycb said:


> Melinda_dd":lokawycb said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I have just bought a new pair of walking boots, still un christened and don't really want to muck them up in the workshop by dropping friction polish and god knows what on them..... as soon as the novelty has warn off them i'll wear them.

I like the idea of the heated socks and insoles, and apparently savers do some insoles that heat up when taken out of their packing and last for 6 hours..... activated by the air apparently..... only a couple of quid too!

My partner has just informed me there is also an oil filled radiator reserved for me... so fingers crossed I may be a bit warmer soon!!


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## Jacob (7 Dec 2011)

Oil filled rad is brill - you have it in front of your bench and it warms your front. Or you have it between your legs, etc. 
I put a bike saddle on mine (it just sat there, no engineering involved) so I could sit on it while I had a cup of tea or did the sudoku. If it had had wheels I could have scooted around the workshop on it, like a hobby horse.


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## OldWood (7 Dec 2011)

Just out of interest how large are your workshops ? Melinda's we know is tiny and an oil filled radiator will warm it up quickly, particularly if she does something about insulation - no point in heating the outside world.

Mine is 2.5m x 5m and a 2kw thermostatically controlled fan heater brings it up to adequate comfort level - 12-15C - pretty quickly. But then it's new shop and has no draughts and plenty of insulation. 

I am intrigued by how much wood work some people are doing to produce adequate shavings and sawdust for a stove; I'm sure that I could do the maths to show that 'x' kilos of sawdust would be required to heat a 'y' area workshop, but I know how many logs my slow burning house wood stove uses per day, or even part of the day, and then I think of those logs as sawdust ...... and I don't think it equates.

Rob


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## melvyne (8 Dec 2011)

Are you insulating the workshop enough! I have a wooden workshed and covered the ceiling with 2" foil backed insulating board. It works just fine and a little background heating every so often makes all the difference.
Melvyn


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## boysie39 (8 Dec 2011)

Jacob":3knhwnid said:


> Oil filled rad is brill - you have it in front of your bench and it warms your front. Or you have it between your legs, etc.
> I put a bike saddle on mine (it just sat there, no engineering involved) so I could sit on it while I had a cup of tea or did the sudoku. If it had had wheels I could have scooted around the workshop on it, like a hobby horse.



Jacob, if I were you i'd put those wheels on as soon as you can, because a trip to the Hemryod? (Piles) clinic
cant be too far behind. excuse the pun   :roll: :roll:


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## Lowlife (8 Dec 2011)

> I am intrigued by how much wood work some people are doing to produce adequate shavings and sawdust for a stove



Last year I planed and thicknessed almost 1Km of 30mm Western Red Cedar for planking my boat hull, just did another 100m of 70mm wide Pine for the cabin roof, and a similar quantity of Utile. I have large sacks of shavings everywhere as I have nowhere to get rid of them easily, too dusty to use for animal bedding, the council tip will charge me to dump it there as they don't believe it's "domestic", even though they would probably sell it on to be recycled into chipboard! Most of it will probably be used on the garden as mulch.


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## Jacob (8 Dec 2011)

On a very cold day this is not as daft as it looks. If you haven't a bike saddle it would be difficult to knock up a wooden seat.







All it needs now is wheels, a head and tail, and I'm off!


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## kingcod (9 Dec 2011)

nev":3mbb25u2 said:


> or buy one :shock:
> http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burn ... stove.html


I stumbled across these too
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/balsawood-123? ... 4340.l2563


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## worsley947 (10 Dec 2011)

You can get interlocking floor mats from JTF for about £10 for 6 600x600 I think they are 
Dave


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## tekno.mage (11 Dec 2011)

My workshop is part of a large draughty barn :-( It has a very high roof and various damp areas. However, some Xmas present jobs have been promised so turning in the cold is a necessity. 

I have a 50 year old large two bar electric fire, which although being too expensive to leave on the "full power" setting for long, has a really useful "half-bar" setting (500Watts) I have this immediately behind me when standing at the lathe. It's a tall box shape with glass front so it suitable to park gouges etc on top of to warm them up before use. It can also be sat on to warm the turner from beneath when required. The glass front also protects the hot innards from shavings ingress!

My partner has made a "lathe warmer" for the small lathe from some sheet metal and several large power resistors. This slides under the bed bars of the lathe and generates around 200Watts of heat to warm up all the metal work before starting work. I have an angle-poise lamp fitted on to of the headstock - in summer it takes a low energy bulb - in winter a 60 Watt tungsten bulb to generate heat and light over the work. We have also fitted one of those old bar-shaped greenhouse heaters under the bed bars of our larger lathe.

I have cheap interlocking Axminster workshop matting on the floor and wrap up really warm before going out there. In really cold weather I wear thick trousers, long wool ski socks, a long sleeved cotton teeshirt with a really thick hoody over the top (the kind made of thick sweat-shirt material) and a woolly hat. When it's really cold, I wear the hood up over the hat, when it's less cold the hood can be sort of rolled up to keep the back of the neck warm. On my feet I wear short Crocs wellies which really do work in keeping the feet warm and the shavings away from the socks.

Keeping the hands warm is hard. I do admit to wearing lined leather gloves some of the time when turning, but they have to come off for delicate work and sanding. They stay on for roughing or any other types of turning where my hands don't need to touch the spinning wood. It really does help to warm up those cold metal parts (gouges, toolrests, chucks etc) before starting work - cold metal soon sucks the warm out of your hands.

I also have plenty of nice hots drinks when working in the cold - and will run indoors for a quick half hour warm-up in front of the fire if things get too bad!


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## Melinda_dd (11 Dec 2011)

And I thought I had it bad!!!

I was out there today and was no too bad at all. My feet stayed warm for quite a while, but I think they may have been a little too warm and then went freezing... thinking maybe sweat? (steel toe cap boots and hiking socks)

Still no heating in there tho.



OldWood":1uc1mvpm said:


> Just out of interest how large are your workshops ? Melinda's we know is tiny and an oil filled radiator will warm it up quickly, particularly if she does something about insulation - no point in heating the outside world.



Its definately 4ft wide, and I think 6ft long. It feels a lot smaller tho!
I won't be insulating it as it's not our shed (rented house) and I think i'm pushing it with the shelves i've put up in there now.


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## OldWood (11 Dec 2011)

Melinda - I see your problem. Had you thought of doing the greenhouse thing and using bubble wrap as insulation? It's not expensive and several layers should make a considerable difference in adding insulation and keeping down the draughts. It shouldn't upset your landlord as it is totally removable.

Kym - had you thought of doing something the same - a light wooden cage with bubble wrap as the walls ?

The other thing I have, but now never use (I have a new workshop that is super insulated!  ), is one of those parabolic radiant heaters, which I did use quite a bit in the old workshop until me and the environment came to terms. It heated me with radiant heat but didn't do much for the rest of the workshop. 

Edited to say that floor insulation makes an awful lot of difference; old carpet tiles, these interlocking tiles we've talked about and so on. Just standing on something soft to the feet is sooooo much more pleasant.

Rob


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## Melinda_dd (11 Dec 2011)

The bubble wrap is a great idea. And could just put it up with drawing pins.
Would i be wrong to cover the ventilation at the top up (gap were the rafter joins the shed walls all tghe way round) that seems to be a bit pointless to me in a shed that small?


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## OldWood (11 Dec 2011)

Melinda_dd":wmlv5zb3 said:


> The bubble wrap is a great idea. And could just put it up with drawing pins.
> Would i be wrong to cover the ventilation at the top up (gap were the rafter joins the shed walls all tghe way round) that seems to be a bit pointless to me in a shed that small?



I would on the grounds that if you do run into a condensation problem, it will be pretty obvious and the ventilation easily restored. Interestingly enough I was concerned about humidity in my new workshop and fitted a fan with a humidistat on it, and I've never in 2 years gone into the workshop and found it functioning; there must be some way in which I could find out if it has been working. Just make sure that there is enough good air in there for you !!!!!! -- and that you don't fumigate yourself with solvents from a finish. 

Rob


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## tekno.mage (12 Dec 2011)

OldWood":3fztivr4 said:


> Kym - had you thought of doing something the same - a light wooden cage with bubble wrap as the walls ?



Wow - I'd need absolutely masses of bubble-wrap to insulate the area i use as a workshop. It's a good quarter of a large barn. The real problem is the height of the ceiling and the fact that the walls are corregated iron or single skin blockwork - both are draughty (have gaps & air vents from when animals lived in there) and some bits leak when it rains. Something I may get around to one day when time and funds allow is building a "room within a room". However, it's a rented property so I don't want to spend too much on this. Maybe one day I'll find a very large garden shed going cheap that could be sited inside


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## OldWood (12 Dec 2011)

tekno.mage":2majs7ex said:


> OldWood":2majs7ex said:
> 
> 
> > Kym - had you thought of doing something the same - a light wooden cage with bubble wrap as the walls ?
> ...



Kym - I'm sure I've sown a seed of an idea ! I would look at it this way - many of your power tools you will only be visiting for a short time; I take it you have a bandsaw, planer and circular saw somewhere, plus the lathes. On the basis that I spend most of my workshop time at a bench and lathe, I would just build a 2 x 2 framed 'tent' round those and cover it at least with polythene (and I'm sure bubble wrap is no more expensive) to eliminate the draughts. Assemble the tent with screws and it will be recycleable and not be outwith your tenancy agreement.

Rob 

Rob


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## jumps (12 Dec 2011)

well I've bitten the bullet and ordered a 1.5kw quartz 'patio heater', which I plan to set up for use both inside (what remains of) my 'shop for hand tool work etc (and the pillar drill I'm allowed to use in there) and outside, where I use the lathe/bandsaw/tablesaw/sander...

it will be interesting to see how it works, esp with the lather as it's the cold metal and tool steel that creates the most discomfort with that and I'm only expecting the radiant heat to make my hands 'feel warm' rather than everthing to be warm.

I feel lucky I have 2 weather proof walls and a dry roof (relative to Kym), but I'm getting tempted to fit something like clear polythene over at least one more side before the winter's out!


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## Melinda_dd (12 Dec 2011)

All these ideas are certainly giving (us rented pep's) food for thought as to how to stay warm, not cost the earth, and not cause damage to the property in anyway!

If I can just finish this months entry, then I can bash on with some insulation and heat


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## Lons (13 Dec 2011)

The bubblewrap works though clearly not as good as proper insulation.

I bought a large roll years ago (can't remember exactly where now or how much). it's only about 1 metre wide but I still have 1/2 a roll and I guess originally it was 100 metres? I think I bought from one of the wholesalers who supply packing materials to industry. Shouldn't be difficult to find someone local.
I wouldn't have bought it had it been too expensive as I'm a tight git  

All I did to a small shed and a greenhouse at the time was staple to the timber frames and tape the joints with clear parcel tape. Apart from the odd accidental tear, easily repaired, it lasted for years.

I also used some in the loft, stapled to the underside of the rafters though not sure about the sense in that as it could promote condensation.

Bob


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## boysie39 (16 Dec 2011)

OK, so earlier on I posted a reply that was ment to be funny   .
But now the pitch is not as level as I thought it was, I have for a long time now been out of my SHED and only last week was passed fit to visit in a "regulated" way by SWMBO.

My shed is constructed of very heavy gauge sheets of corragated galvanised sheets,it was here when we moved in to the house about six yrs. ago. Who ever built it must have been going to use it as a bunker if there were air raids :lol: 
It could survive anything that was thrown at it. :mrgreen: 

Anyway we are having very cold weather at the moment, very frosty, and going into the shed is like going into a freezer it's warmer outside than in. I cant see me being able to rebuild a new one because of one thing and another so what I really want to say is > Jacob when you put the wheels and the tail on your workshop heater Would you also put a pair of WINGS on and point it in my direction :lol: :lol:


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## gnu (16 Dec 2011)

We have this woodburning stove which is very good and you can burn your shavings and offcuts built up over the warmer months. I have a small factory unit of 750 square feet and the woodburner seems to warm the place quite well. Years ago I did have a parafin heater which was alright but don't know if they still do them.


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