# My first scroll-saw. Now, what to do with it?



## nev (13 Jan 2017)

I managed to glean an old saw from the boss, a Ferm FFZ-400N, hoping to dip my toe into the wonderful world of scrolling. 







Having never seen one in the flesh let alone used one :shock: I thought I may try and document the journey here in the hope that I and others in a similar position can work from day 1.

I know its a basic saw, no variable speed etc but its probably similar to what most newcomers will start with so ...

First questions:

1. Blades*. Which, why and where from? (remember we're practicing)
The Ferm can take pinless 'with the supplied adaptor' but of course I do not have the adaptor. Is there a universal one that may fit?











2. Tension. When it comes to the blade, how tight is tight enough? 

[youtube]FZwFP4xzEkk[/youtube]

3. Timber. For practice and getting used to the machine is mdf or cheap ply suitable? what thickness?

4. Pattern application. Which spray adhesive etc?

5. Should I have a zero tolerance insert to begin with?






*I have some blades which I believe are the correct size but are of course pinless.






Thank you in advance gents.


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## nev (13 Jan 2017)

and the first cut...

(homer) Don't try this at home folks, cutting one handed whilst holding the phone in the other is not good practice. (homer) 

[youtube]1IQeHbuhiJs[/youtube]


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## NazNomad (13 Jan 2017)

Same as my first scroll saw. 

Tip #1, take that clear blade guard off and throw it in a drawer.


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## Claymore (13 Jan 2017)

...........


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## NazNomad (13 Jan 2017)

I didn't notice the lack of blower. From experience, the rubber bulb under that plate is probably fubar. Does air puff out of the hole when you hold your finger on it (with the saw running)?


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## AES (13 Jan 2017)

@Nev. I hope the following helps:

Just as NazNomad says, get rid of that Perspex guide. It only gets in the way. Ditto if you have one of those hold-down thingies.

Your Qs:

1. Blades. Unless they are VERY coarse, or VERY fine, use what you've got for now. They'll be fine. As you say, you're "only" practicing right now, so internal cuts will come later. Even to start with, internal cuts with pinned blades are quite OK, the only difference will be as you start to improve, and want to do "better" inside cuts, pin less blades simply allow you to cut a smaller entry hole. Otherwise there's little real difference (IMHO).
As you progress, you can try Flying Dutchman blades (mail order from the US); you can try Hobbies own blades (which I believe are German made); you can get a German-made direct from Hegner, the scroll saw people; or, my own personal favourite, Pegas, Swiss made, which I believe in UK you can buy from Axi.
Also don't discount your local DIY Emporium for blades. I can't speak about the UK but here we have 2 big chains which sell German-made blades under the LUX Tools brand name, a brtand which I think is also available in UK. BTW, LUX do both pinned and pin less blades (if you don't find a suitable adaptor - I can't help with that 'cos I don't know your saw).

2. Blade tension: It sounded about right about 80% of the way through your 1st video clip. A high-ish "ping" sound is what you're after. The other guide is then blade shouldn't move fore and aft or L & R more than about one eight inch max.

3. Timber: MDF is lovely stuff to cut and an ideal cheap practice wood, BUT some people are allergic to the dust and though I'm not I still get a tickly nose after cutting it. So a mask is at least a sensible, if not VITAL precaution. Cheap ply is OK, as indeed is just about anything else you can lay your hands on (we bought a box of Clementines for Xmas and that wood - don't know what species, but a mixture of different thicknesses used) would have made an ideal no-cost practice medium. Also, to start with any old pine, hardboard, or just about anything else will do, but try to get different thicknesses (one sixteenth up to one inch plus) simply to get the feel of cutting shapes into different types and thicknesses of wood. They don't need to be big bits.

4. Pattern application. I use glue sticks. Only (slight) problem is getting the cut pattern off again (if that really matters on a practice piece). For "good" work I cover the wood with blue painter's masking tape first, then glue stick the pattern on, then probably (if a fiddly cut) cover the pattern with transparent sellotape. Make sure the parts of the pattern where you're going to cut are WELL glued down - rub hard all over with a soft before sellotaping.

5. Zero clearance: A big help when doing intricate cuts in thin stock (sixteenth and eighth), but to start off with don't bother.

Other: Sorry, I couldn't make you're video of the 1st cut work.

Try to visit some other (mainly US) sites, many of which have v good beginner's lessons and exercise patterns to down load.

I'll post some links in a 2nd post later on tonight.

Meantime, have fun, it's great. All the above are my own opinions/experience, and I stress that until I joined this Forum a few years back I knew absolutely NOTHING about scrolling.

HTH

AES


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## Phil Pascoe (13 Jan 2017)

NazNomad":1dab04di said:


> Same as my first scroll saw.
> 
> Tip #1, take that clear blade guard off and throw it in a drawer.



I suspect that advice is apt for any power tool that comes with clear plastic blade guard.


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## AES (13 Jan 2017)

Nev: here's some useful links:

1. Cutting practice, videos and down load practice pattern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotatio ... gjeDBdGfZo

2. General patterns (some free): http://www.scrollsawartist.com/

3. Steve Good: (very good site): http://scrollsawworkshop.blogspot.ch/


4. A similar one to the above: http://www.scrollsawparadise.com/


5. "Scroll Saw School" (Steve Good again): http://www.stevedgood.com/school/sss.html

HTH

AES


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## nev (13 Jan 2017)

NazNomad":3e4wp1oq said:


> I didn't notice the lack of blower. From experience, the rubber bulb under that plate is probably fubar. Does air puff out of the hole when you hold your finger on it (with the saw running)?




No puffing so I will investigate in the morning.


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## NazNomad (13 Jan 2017)

Take out the two screws that hold the plastic plate to the top of the saw. There should be a rubber (for want of a better description) 'ballbag' under it.

Best guess, it's either split thought age, or missing. If it's split, don't bother trying to repair it - been there, done that. Also, don't order a replacement from anywhere, they seem to have changed the shape of the ballbag slightly and they don't work - also been there, done that.

Best thing is to get a cheap aquarium pump and rig up a pipe to blow the dust away. 

As I recall, the pipe was held in a metal p-clip by the left-hand bolt that's fixing the plastic guard in place. I can't see that on your saw either. Page 4 of the manual here ... https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... qpobUvb5gg

best thing is try and rig up a flexible coolant pipe like this ...

https://www.proto-pic.co.uk/flexible-co ... ft-12.html








... that way, you can get it blowing exactly where you need it with ease.


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## NazNomad (13 Jan 2017)

Also, bolt the saw to a bench if you can. It'll vastly improve the 'handling'.

I always saw that a cheap saw bolted to a heavy bench will perform as well as an expensive saw that's allowed to leap around of its own accord.

Some of the stuff I made with my Ferm saw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh4XZ27_JFg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2PEstxRU1k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-N72MTHQNg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_UofNsDnfI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sly-uP8q6ns


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## AES (13 Jan 2017)

@ Nev:

+1 (& + another 1!) for NazNomad's advice about an aquarium pump, (pet shop) + the flex coolant pipe (Arc Eurotrade amongst others). Cheap and works VERY well (another tip I got from this Forum). BTW, I've even added another such set up to my band saw for small work/tight curve cutting (quarter inch blade).

And if you wish, send me a PM with your private E-mail and I'll send you a couple of .pdf,s with a "No Fail Blade Selection Chart" (from a US Scroll Sawing mag), and a series of detailed tech sheets from Pegas covering blade thicknesses, widths, entry hole sizes, and TPI,s etc, for both pinned and pinless, covering both their wood and metal (jeweller's) blades. For Pegas' own blades (of course) but seems to be pretty much applicable to other brands too.

As said, I don't know your saw but I bought a set of Axi's pinned/pinless adaptor for my old Einhel saw (now passed on, almost useless thing!). Adaptor didn't work so it's hanging around here idle. Include your full address in the above PM and I'll send you the Axi adaptor - it MAY fit your saw.

AES


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## nev (15 Jan 2017)

Inspected my 'ballbag' today and as expected it has expired due to age and non use  
Next stop is the aquarium shop up the road for a pump et al.

Ordered a handful of Pegas blades from Axminster so I can eliminate blade quality from my list of things to blame when I can't follow a line.

So now we await the postman.


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## NazNomad (15 Jan 2017)

nev":1s0kcgur said:


> Inspected my 'ballbag' today and as expected it has expired due to age and non use



:lol: :lol:


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## AES (15 Jan 2017)

Obviously your "ballbag" needs more use nev! But what you think the postman can do about it I'm not quite clear  

AES

A serious P.S: I had a similar set up on my Einhell saw. I had it from new and it NEVER worked properly and gave up completely soon afterwards. Useless idea - maybe OK if the correct material was used, but in practice, useless IMO.

AES


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## donwatson (16 Jan 2017)

I met the same problem with my Parkside and it was cured by Claymore sending me a good 'bawbag'.
If anyone wants the flexi hose I have one that Claymore also sent. (somewhere, I should find it). lol

take care
Don W


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## nev (17 Jan 2017)

Lesson 1* - Make sure your glue stick sticks!
If yer pattern's flapping about you can't follow the line :roll: 

Lesson 2** - You need an air supply or you chance hyperventilating  

Anxious to see if my new Pegas blades were any different to the ones that were with the machine (I'm impatient me ) I grabbed some glue sticks from the local cheap shop, printed off some test patterns (Thanks AES) and headed to the garage. 
Dug out some old oak cabinet door pieces from the kindling bin and applied said pattern to wood*. I also covered it in clear packing tape. This worked fine for the heart and star pattern cuts but not so well for the snowflake which has lots of smaller 'fingers'. The pattern just started peeling up, so rather than risk losing a finger trying to hold down the paper I gave up on the snowflake for now, till I get some decent sticky stuff.

**I have my hoses/nozzles for the new blower but am still waiting for the pump and have discovered that sawdust build up is immediate and right in front of the blade so without a puffer you stand there chuffing away like Ivor the Engine on speed!

And yes, as expected the Pegas blades are superior to the unknowns I already have. Primarily they don't twist in use as the others did no matter how tight I had them.

Todays test bits..
I seem to be OK on the straight lines, not so much on the circles. Yet


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## AES (17 Jan 2017)

Well done nev. If those are really your first efforts then you clearly have an illustrious "career" in front of you!

Yup, agreed, "stickless" glue sticks are about as useful as worn out "ballbags"  DAMHIKT!

And Yes, you'll find your aquarium pump will do a lot to reduce the risk of death by asphyixiation!!!

Glad you like the Pegas blades.

AES


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## loftyhermes (17 Jan 2017)

When the blower packed up I got a dogs squeaky rugby ball toy, took the squeak out and pushed the pipe in and glued it under the bottom arm.
happy scrolling
Steve


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## NazNomad (17 Jan 2017)

loftyhermes":3jjuzwc5 said:


> When the blower packed up I got a dogs squeaky rugby ball toy, took the squeak out and pushed the pipe in and glued it under the bottom arm.
> happy scrolling
> Steve



Should have left the squeaker in, that would have been hilarious. :-D


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## loftyhermes (17 Jan 2017)

NazNomad":2ccqfkna said:


> loftyhermes":2ccqfkna said:
> 
> 
> > When the blower packed up I got a dogs squeaky rugby ball toy, took the squeak out and pushed the pipe in and glued it under the bottom arm.
> ...


Oh no it wouldn't.
happy scrolling
Steve


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## scrimper (17 Jan 2017)

nev":3m5pjn7t said:


> Lesson 1* - Make sure your glue stick sticks!
> If yer pattern's flapping about you can't follow the line :roll:



When you say Glue sticks do you actually mean the roll on type because they are hopeless, what I use also from pound shops and the Range are little tubes of old fashioned water based gum they are about 6" tall with a screw on cap and contain very sticky gum, it sticks the patterns on very firmly and can either be sanded off or if delicate work I just dampen the top of the paper and peels off easily. Normally you get 4 tubes for a pound. it similar to the good old fashioned GLOY that is no longer available.


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## NazNomad (17 Jan 2017)

I use a generic 'Pritt Stick' from The Works. 

4 sizes for a squid - http://www.theworks.co.uk/p/glue-and-ta ... 2089125452


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## nev (17 Jan 2017)

scrimper":2imhcvgi said:


> nev":2imhcvgi said:
> 
> 
> > Lesson 1* - Make sure your glue stick sticks!
> ...



Yep, the pritt chapstick type ones. At 4 for 69p I wasn't expecting much but it was all they had without venturing another 10 miles. And back again.


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## powertools (17 Jan 2017)

My advice would be to give up with the paper glue and parcel tape and just use self adhesive labeles and keep the backing paper to add designs to your work direct from your printer


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## xiphidius (18 Jan 2017)

http://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-c ... 00ml/32657


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## nev (22 Jan 2017)

Another question:
Will the blade eventually twist if I tend to keep cutting in the same direction?

For example, cutting the snowflake test pattern I tended to do the same cut (direction) over and over, I did notice the blade started to cut to the right. Turned out to be the seating of the top pin in the blade holder, easily remedied by slacking and resetting, but it did get me thinking. 
Was the blade too tight? too slack? Pushing the workpiece into the blade too hard? etc


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## nev (22 Jan 2017)

As can been seen above I have temporarily added some air. A couple of coolant pipes as suggested by Naz and a cheap pump (£7.62 inc post) from the internet. I was thinking of adding an LED to the end of one arm but the pump has two outlets so I used both for air.
The result?
It works. Just about. The puff only reaches less than inch but its enough to clear the work area in front of the blade.

for those interested, All Pond Solutions, 180L/H Aquarium Air Pump Complete Kit AP-3 AP-3-KIT.


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## AES (22 Jan 2017)

"Maybe" is my (not very helpful) answer, sorry!

Is that a pinned blade you're showing there, I can't quite see? In my experience of pinned blades & machines, the pins "rest" into a little U shaped channel pressed into the blade holders top and bottom. In other words there's no real restraint in the vertical direction, apart from the tension on the blade. So you can try more tension, though it depends on the machine (and the blade) how far you can go with that.

In comparison, pin less blades are most often thinner (front to back and side to side) than pinned blades, so they MAY not twist as much - again subject to tension you apply.

I've found all this a bit of a black art I'm afraid, but once you get settled on a particular blade (type and number) you'll slowly but surely get to the point where you'll "know" how much tension to apply.

Depends on work piece material type and thickness too of course!!!!

Sorry, can't help more. 

AES

Edit in the light of your 2nd post: Re a light, please search for a recent post by Claymore and his Excali/Axi 30 "aircraft carrier" where he mentions a little LED light with a magnetic base - called an industrial sewing machine light. There's an e-bay link there. I've now got one now and it's excellent.

HTH

And a 2nd edit (just waking up now). Many/most/all (?) blades tend to cut a bit "cack-handed" off to the right anyway. One of the skills to learn with straight lines is that usually speaking, a straight line cut will not be parallel to the fore & aft blade axis, but will need for the "top" of the work to be a bit offset to the L to get a straight line. I guess this tendency will be magnified with a blade that's already been used for a lot of angled cuts, whatever the tension and type of blade.

"Fun" ain't it?


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## NazNomad (22 Jan 2017)

Buy a t-piece and shove both outlets from the pump into one coolant pipe... (don't use the filters either)

Also, blades are 'stamped' out and will have a tendency to cant to one side, you'll get used to it.

"Was the blade too tight? too slack? Pushing the workpiece into the blade too hard? etc"

Quick answer is maybe. Could be all three. As above, you'll get used to it. :-D


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## scrimper (22 Jan 2017)

nev":2vvtb4oi said:


> For example, cutting the snowflake test pattern I tended to do the same cut (direction) over and over, I did notice the blade started to cut to the right. Turned out to be the seating of the top pin in the blade holder, easily remedied by slacking and resetting, but it did get me thinking.



I do hope I am not stating the obvious here but are you aware that fretsaw blades almost always have a bias (usually to the right) due to the manufacturing process? You get used to this eventually and compensate for it without any thought.


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## nev (22 Jan 2017)

scrimper":1vhxm8ls said:


> nev":1vhxm8ls said:
> 
> 
> > For example, cutting the snowflake test pattern I tended to do the same cut (direction) over and over, I did notice the blade started to cut to the right. Turned out to be the seating of the top pin in the blade holder, easily remedied by slacking and resetting, but it did get me thinking.
> ...




News to me  The obvious is always welcome.


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## AES (22 Jan 2017)

@nev: One (or more?) of those links I sent you for US Scroll Saw web site/s covers that point in detail. Well worth a look.

AES


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## nev (9 Feb 2017)

*To learn we must do*. 

*So I did. And I learned. *

I learned that I need bigger glasses, a brighter light and probably a magnifying glass!

I have a long long way to go but I'm quite happy with my first semi proper output in real wood, just the wren part of 'wren on teacup' as previously shown how to do properly by Brian (Claymore) from a book by Judy Gale Roberts and Jerry Boober called "Small Intarsia"

Lots of gaps, but on the plus side I learned how to improve the join by running the 'blunt' side of the blade along the edge of one piece whilst held against and trimming the other, seen here on youtube, another link provided by someone earlier, Thank you.

So until I get a magnifier I'll stick to bigger patterns, That way I may be able to follow a line a little easier 






and a quick dose of yacht varnish (twas all I had in the cupboard)


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## Claymore (9 Feb 2017)

..........


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## AES (9 Feb 2017)

Very nice Nev, really.

I told you you're going to be a "star" =D> 

+1 for Claymore's tip about that sewing machine light. I too have less than 100% eyesight and since that tip on this section of the Forum I find it excellent. If memory serves, look somewhere in a post which is talking about Claymore's new Axi/Excali 30 inch aircraft carrier.

Someone said here that regards a magnifying glass they don't get on well with them. I guess that like a number of other things, it depends on each individual, but I have both the above sewing machine light and a swivel arm magnifier with a light inside and I use them both at once.

I think (only think mind) that Arc Eurotrade and Axi both sell similar magnifiers to my own - if not try one of the model engineering suppliers in the sticky at the top of the Metalworking section here - perhaps Proops. They don't cost a huge amount (about a tenner/15 quid?) so worth a punt I think - as above, I wouldn't be without mine.

AES


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## xiphidius (9 Feb 2017)

That looks really good nev ...hopefully I can come up with something as good as that some day...for now I'm only cutting out simple patterns for kids but hope to get more into things such as this as time passes and to get my hands on a few good books is a must...anyway well done and I will be following your posts to see your progression
Regards
C


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## nev (9 Feb 2017)

Cheers guys. 
AES: hardly a star, but I appreciate the encouragement 

Searched out Colins post about the lamps and just ordered 2. (I'll put one on the lathe too when I eventually get it out of the boxes its been sat in since the house move :roll: )

I'll try the light first and if I still struggle I'll go for the magnifier too.


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## AES (9 Feb 2017)

@nev: You wrote, QUOTE: I'll try the light first and if I still struggle I'll go for the magnifier too. UNQUOTE:

Good plan. Incidentally, re the sewing machine lamp, I couldn't find it here, Amazon USA & UK would not deliver it to Switzerland, but Amazon Germany did. It came (very quickly) but direct from China, and was "fitted" with 2 crimped on open-ended spade tags like a 12 Volt car accessory (it has no earth) which in no way resembled any 110 or 240 Volt mains plug I've ever seen!

No matter, easy enough "problem" to fix, and as said, it's a great little lamp - my wife's got one on her sewing machine too - but sometimes it makes you wonder about suppliers and national regs doesn't it?

AES


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## Buffalo Chas (9 Feb 2017)

Very nice piece for your first attempt Nev. Well done. I haven't even tried to do something like that yet. Some day hopefully, - maybe - eventually. Lol.

Charley


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## nev (14 Feb 2017)

Improvements:
Fitted a bigger tabletop - just an old backing sheet from a kitchen cabinet glued to some mdf with the shape of the base of the saw bed cut out, so Ive only increased the height by the thickness of the hard board. Nice and smooth and slidey now 







Fitted the 'sewing machine light' (about 3 quid on eBay with 3 week delivery or 7 quid on Amazon with immediate delivery).
Now I can actually see the line I'm supposed to follow, so no more excuses there!
@AES - Yes definitely the thinnest wires I've ever seen carrying 240v :shock: Hope its just because there is very little current draw and not just because the Chinese manufacturers are determined to burn my house down 






Fitted a couple of Axminster clamps for pin-less blades (Axminster Blade Clamp for AWVFS Scroll Saw) and some pin-less blades . Changing the blade will involve allen keys and faffing but looks like its a worthwhile modification, if it continues to work when being used in anger. 
As a quick test I scribbled on a bit of that backing board and cut away and wow! how much more manoeuvrable with the thinner blades, much better cut too.






So thanks to all for the suggestions =D> , hopefully I'll get to use it this week sometime.


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## Claymore (14 Feb 2017)

..........


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## novocaine (15 Feb 2017)

I think I'd rewire that light and add an earth, it will be either a capacitive dropper or a step down to 5-12V for the LED referenced to 240v, which means if (or when to be honest) it shorts to the nice metal body or even nicer metal arm it's going to be at 240v with no ground fault triggered at the fuse board. for the sake of swapping out the lead to a decent 3 core and earth the case. 

oh and as it's stuck the saw with a magnet guess whats going to be live at mains? (not sure if your pinching the earth from the saw actually, in which case you'll be fine, didn't think of that till I'd tapped all this out, maybe don't use it as a torch aye).


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## AES (15 Feb 2017)

Interesting novocaine. I too have these lights and it was me who raised the point about a VERY thin lead. But there are only 2 conductors, no earth (on mine anyway) so doesn't this mean that the whole assembly is double insulated? (Forgive my ignorance please, but also I thought one should never add an earth to a double insulated item).

Just asking, 'cos I really was surprised to see such a thin lead on a 240 V item - in fact I had to add a few layers of insulating tape to the outer sheath just so that the cable grip on the plug would in fact grip the cable.

Sorry if it's a dumb question.

AES


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## nev (15 Feb 2017)

I'll check for continuity between the lamp casing and saw later to see if it earths via the case.

EDIT: There is no continuity between the flexi arm and base, and the magnet/ metal base is cushioned/ isolated with a rubber 'o-ring' so the lamp base does not actually contact the saw. So I would say without pulling the lamp apart there is no earthing. 
That said, with wires clipped into place its not going to moved anywhere so I'm happy that nothing is going to short because of movement.


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## AES (15 Feb 2017)

Thanks nev. Just to add info, your light in the pic looks exactly the same as mine. On mine, the only metal bits in the whole assembly are the flexible swan neck and the magnet housing itself (which, surely, also houses whatever electronic gubbins is responsible for dropping the mains to LED voltage) - everything else is plastic.

I'm in the middle of re-wiring my cellar right now (the "profi" is coming in a mo to connect up the 3 phase to 1 phase stuff) otherwise I'd check my own.

AES


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