# Electrolytic rust removal



## Scouse (27 Jun 2011)

Ok, so I've watched all the videos etc and I need something fast to take rust off the growing mountain of car boot victims I have rescued and, while I am aware of the benefits of citric acid etc, electrolysis looks dangerous and, therefore, fun so that is the method of choice!

Thing is, while a battery charger seems to be the preferred power source, I read somewhere that an 'automatic' charger will not work, yet all of them, even cheapo ones seem to have some degree of cutout for incorrect connection. 

So... can someone recommend a make/model/specification to look out for? Cheapo ones seem to go for about £20 ish, and I've put a link below for one which caught my eye, but with the above concern highlighted, ie. a 'polarity checker to ensure correct connection'.

There are a couple in Halfords too, but again, I don't want to spend out on something that won't work.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1683wt_905

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165629

Cheers El.


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## seaco (27 Jun 2011)

I did a thread on this a while back I think this may be better and cheaper option, I use about 12v although I have heard of people using up to 19v...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tri-ang-Transform ... 20ba96be74

This is my old thread...

electrolytic-derusting-my-experience-wip-t17388.html


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## barkwindjammer (27 Jun 2011)

Bath bombs-contain citric acid
I learned this from Alf
not at close combat may I add :|


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## Scouse (28 Jun 2011)

seaco":1o8gl0ck said:


> I did a thread on this a while back I think this may be better and cheaper option, I use about 12v although I have heard of people using up to 19v...
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tri-ang-Transform ... 20ba96be74
> This is my old thread...
> electrolytic-derusting-my-experience-wip-t17388.html



I had an idea there was a post somewhere, but couldn't find it. Thanks for the info and the link, a brilliant thread, by the way.

El.


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## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Hi,

I don't think either of those Halfords ones will work, you need an old one the type with a ammeter on no LEDs, try a car boot sale.

Pete


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## Jamesc (28 Jun 2011)

I use this method a lot with great success, one word of warning though. Do not use stainless electrodes. There are many sites out there explaining why, this one gives as good an explanation as any http://antique-engines.com/stainless-steel-electrodes.htm.

I'll second the cheapo charger, I have a halfords inteligent charger which just shuts itself off. I got mine at the local dump for £2.00 its been doing sterling service for the past 8 years.

James


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## Dibs-h (28 Jun 2011)

Have you tried plain old Phosphoric Acid diluted down to say 15%? It's used extensively by the car restoration crowd and is cheap as the proverbial chips. Most Diary Supplies places sell it and it's known as Milkstone Cleaner. When I used it last for restoration work - paid £9 for 5L of the stuff.

Just placed the part in the solution and leave it overnight - the rust will be dissolved out. Might leave the surface feeling slightly pitted, but that's down to the rust coming out.

HIH

Dibs


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## Jamesc (28 Jun 2011)

Hi Dibs, not wishing to hijack this post but did you find that the phosphoric acid turned the metal a dull grey? I have used citric acid which left the metal a very dull greyish colour which I found most un-apealing.

James


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## Dibs-h (28 Jun 2011)

Jamesc":2iy3l5nv said:


> Hi Dibs, not wishing to hijack this post but did you find that the phosphoric acid turned the metal a dull grey? I have used citric acid which left the metal a very dull greyish colour which I found most un-apealing.
> 
> James



James

IIRC it does leave it a dull grey colour - that's some type of surface coating that protects the metal (short term) if you don't subsequently apply anything. It was easily abraded off tho - if you would rather see shiny metal.

Dibs


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## beech1948 (28 Jun 2011)

``1If you only have a modern car battery charger which wants to cut out on you then the solution is to put a car battery in the circuit between the charger abd the electrolysis tank. Connect in series. This fools the charger into seeing the expected load and you can proceed.
A


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## Racers (28 Jun 2011)

Dangerous thing to do one slip and you short out the battery, and that can lead to an explosion and hot acid everywhere.

Pete


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## beech1948 (28 Jun 2011)

Not dangerous at all. This is standard practice for using a modern battery charger for elctrolysis. The very process should then by your view be seen as dangerous with bare wires everywhere, wet hands etc etc.


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## Racers (29 Jun 2011)

Shorting out a car battery not dangerous? since when!

With a battery charger it will have a fuse limiting the current with a battery you don't.

The voltage is low enough to be relatively safe.


Pete


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## Jamesc (29 Jun 2011)

I'm with Pete on this one. Many moons ago I worked with someone who shorted out a battery whilst charging it. Fortunately we got him into a water tank after the battery exploded, but even so he was in and out of the eye hospital for 6 months. 

Car batteries can deliver ridiculously high amps (it is what they are designed to do after all) a shorted battery will heat up very quickly. Add this to the hydrogen and oxygen that is liberated when you carry out electrolysis and you have an explosive combination. 

This is a good and effective technique, just play smart and use low amps and good ventilation. 

James


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## seaco (29 Jun 2011)

OK so to save all your lives just get a 12v transformer like you use on train sets cheap on Ebay, job done!


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## Racers (29 Jun 2011)

Hi, Serco

As long as it has a rectifier in, you can't do electrolysis with AC.

Pete


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## seaco (29 Jun 2011)

A 12v DC Transformer...!


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## Dibs-h (29 Jun 2011)

Depends if it's a traditional wire wound one or one of the newer solid state transformers. The former should work, whilst the latter is similar to the intelligent chargers and probably won't.

On the subject of batteries in the circuit - I wouldn't having seen one explode and another catch fire, especially as you may leave it unattended for some time. Most injuries heal - but acid to the face\body and in particular to the eyes - doesn't. It's no different to circumventing safety features on electrical equipment - just because you can doesn't mean you should. 

What you do at home is your business - but do entertain the thought that it may not necessarily be the best way of doing things and therefore not something to extol the virtues of to the rest of the masses.

Dibs


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## Racers (29 Jun 2011)

Hi, Seaco


A transformer only works with AC, thats why I said it needs a rectifier.


Pete


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## seaco (29 Jun 2011)

Racers":3pmbie2s said:


> Hi, Seaco
> 
> 
> A transformer only works with AC, thats why I said it needs a rectifier.
> ...




I don't care what's needed just get a 12v DC transformer!!!!!


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## studders (30 Jun 2011)

seaco":32g34as0 said:


> I don't care what's needed just get a 12v DC transformer!!!!!


 :shock: 

That's you told then.


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## Racers (30 Jun 2011)

Yep 

Just have to find a transformer that works on DC  

(I think he means a 12V PSU(Power Supply Unit))

Pete, backing away....


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## PeterBassett (30 Jun 2011)

Transformers, by definition, work on AC only. They may output DC, but that will because of extra circuitry like a rectifier.


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## seaco (30 Jun 2011)

How can this be getting so complicated I never got a degree in physics just get an AC to 12v DC transformer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if a lad with a train set can do it I'm sure you can...


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## Racers (30 Jun 2011)

Hi, Serco

Its not complicated, we are just stressing the use of the correct terminology which is VERY important. 

Now lighten up :wink: 

I did use a smilie after all.

 


Pete


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## Dibs-h (30 Jun 2011)

seaco":4imf3jtx said:


> How can this be getting so complicated I never got a degree in physics just get an AC to 12v DC transformer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if a lad with a train set can do it I'm sure you can...



Out of the following - http://www.maplin.co.uk/search?criteria ... ransformer - which would you recommend? Which one is rated for continuous output?

How much current does electrolysis require? Or should the OP buy one that puts out loads? 

Hopefully you get the picture - it isn't as easy as 



seaco":4imf3jtx said:


> just get an AC to 12v DC transformer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Stuff ain't complicated - if you take a little time to learn the basics. It might be getting a little complicated for you - because you seem to be repeating the same mantra over and over again - transformer, transformer and on and on - bit like you are hearing us but you ain't listening.

For the OP - hopefully, he'll take a little time to learn, before he parts with his money. You are entirely at liberty to short a car battery in series with a charger or just buy



seaco":4imf3jtx said:


> an AC to 12v DC transformer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Dibs


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## Racers (30 Jun 2011)

Hi, Dibs

None of those in your Maplins link will be suitable an old battery charger is the best thing, cheap and rugged.

The Switched mode PSUs will probably not work because the protection circuitry will shut them down.

Plus you searched for 12V transformer which was what I was trying to stop, it’s a 12V DC PSU you need (Car battery chargers will give out 14-16V a car battery conprises of 6, 2.2V lead acid cells giving 14.4 volts)


Pete


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## Dibs-h (30 Jun 2011)

Racers":3b2tpgcy said:


> Hi, Dibs
> 
> None of those in your Maplins link will be suitable an old battery charger is the best thing, cheap and rugged.
> 
> ...



Pete

Yes I knew - it was more a case of hopefully having someone stop that mantra - "12 VDC transformer, 12VDC transformer.... "


Dibs


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## Scouse (30 Jun 2011)

Ok... So... wire brush it is then! :wink: :lol:


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## studders (30 Jun 2011)

Scouse":3t5wmqv7 said:


> Ok... So... wire brush it is then! :wink: :lol:


Brass I hope? We don't want a spark setting fire to yer woodpile now do we?


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## seaco (30 Jun 2011)

I give up!


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## barkwindjammer (30 Jun 2011)

Bath bombs !-they contain citric acid you know


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## seaco (30 Jun 2011)

LOL !!!  :lol: :shock:


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## jimi43 (30 Jun 2011)

Lee....

A transformer transforms AC to AC from one potential to another by induction.

It does not output DC. Full stop...QED...Nuff said....end. Sorry my friend..the others are correct. :wink: 

For anyone not sure about the dangers of spark, hydrogen, current levels, acid or overheating...I think electolysis may well be something to steer clear of...

Corro Dip is fantastic...harmless....effective...and doesn't require electricity.

Before






Bubble fizz during.....






No black residue either...it wipes off...

After....






It's expensive but dilutes to huge volumes (6:1) and the fact that you can reuse it makes it economical in the end...


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## seaco (30 Jun 2011)

As I said before get a 12v DC transformer used on kids train sets loads on Ebay and cheap works fine...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/hornby-train-set- ... 4cf83640a2 240v in 12v DC out

This controller states Controls the direction and speed of one locomotive. Input is 16v AC from the R964 mains transformer. Output is 0-12v DC to the track


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## soulboy (27 Jul 2011)

jimi43":32r8z393 said:


> Lee....It's expensive but dilutes to huge volumes



'kin hell, that is expensive! anybody fancy sharing?


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## Mark A (27 Jul 2011)

I use caustic soda to clean up rusty stuff like hinges. Works ok, but burns a bit when it splashes on your feet... #-o 

I might try electrolysis next time. 

Mark


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## Scouse (27 Jul 2011)

I've done the electrolysis now; I followed the advice of Seaco, thanks by the way, and it worked like a dream. I just got an old 12V model railway power unit and set to work. It worked so well, in fact, that I have got another power unit to run two systems at the same time. Here's a link to the thread I started about tool renovation, the electrolysis is towards the bottom of the page.

old-tool-renovation-wip-t52432.html

El.


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## beech1948 (27 Jul 2011)

I don't think I have ever seen such a thread with so many nay sayers and doom merchants. They seem only to be concerned with being seen as right and the authority to be followed.

Hydrogen explosion. You joke or simply overestimate the volume of hydrogen created in a garage set up, with the door open. I challenge whoever said that to quote me one case of a home owner being exploded by doing this sort of electrolysis. Bah !.

Its simply a case of those with little knowledge/ experience of electrolysis/poor grasp of reality making up stories and repeating bar room title tattle. The loony who started on about "shorting out batteries" should be removed from the site. Its simply a case of poor imagination. No one even remotely suggested that anyone would short out a battery.

To those who reported battery explosions and damaged eyes I have great sympathy and understanding. Dreadful thing to happen. I'm sure it was in a controlled and HSE managed environment.

Really bloody annoyed here.
Alan


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## bugbear (27 Jul 2011)

beech1948":opwq2wd7 said:


> I don't think I have ever seen such a thread with so many nay sayers and doom merchants. They seem only to be concerned with being seen as right and the authority to be followed.
> 
> Hydrogen explosion. You joke or simply overestimate the volume of hydrogen created in a garage set up, with the door open. I challenge whoever said that to quote me one case of a home owner being exploded by doing this sort of electrolysis. Bah !.
> 
> ...



Any comments on the importance (or not) of the difference between a transformer and a DC power supply?

Here's a guy doing electrolysis "carefully":

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

BugBear


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## seaco (27 Jul 2011)

Scouse":3loyxc1q said:


> I've done the electrolysis now; I followed the advice of Seaco, thanks by the way, and it worked like a dream. I just got an old 12V model railway power unit and set to work. It worked so well, in fact, that I have got another power unit to run two systems at the same time. Here's a link to the thread I started about tool renovation, the electrolysis is towards the bottom of the page.
> 
> old-tool-renovation-wip-t52432.html
> 
> El.



At last someone that hasn't killed themselves using electrolysis...YAY!... :wink:


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## Scouse (27 Jul 2011)

Yup, I'm still here!

I do feel that there is a great deal of information out there on t'interweb that is somewhat misleading, and in many cases certainly overcomplicated. Bugbear's link is a good one, but really, you don't need to worry about percentage solution concentrations, a table spoonish per gallonish will do the job, and as long as the wires are connected the right way round, the jobs a goodun. Electrical safety around water is an important consideration, but a bit of common sense is all that is required.

I simply set up the same system as Seaco and there were no problems. I think if anyone was thinking of having a go, that would be the simplest advice I could give. 

It really is an easy method of rust removal, and besides the fiver for the 12V railway controller, and a quid for a shiny new bucket, and 69p for soda crystals from Wilco's it is pretty cheap too. The results of a couple of hours with a 12 volt, 1 amp power supply speak for themselves.












El.


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