# Craft Fair Pen Sellers's



## =Adam= (4 Nov 2012)

Hi guys!

I took a trip to a local village yesterday where there were two craft fairs happening and I was surprised to come across two different wood turners (in the one fair). One turner was selling mainly bowls however he did have a few smaller items but nothing around the £10 mark which I believe to be a fair price for small gifts etc.

The other turner was selling pen's (along with many other items such as bowls, candle sticks, tooth pick holders etc) and I was totally shocked when I saw the prices that he was charging for ALL of his items, but mainly the pens! He had a briefcase half full of pens (roughly 20 - 30 pens at full capacity) of which he had what he called 'Solid pens', 'Laminated pens' and 'Bog Oak pens' and he was selling them for £6, £7 and £8 respectively! I just don't understand how he can make any money by selling them at those prices as the kit costs roughly £1 (timber bits) and the timber costs about the same? In my defence, I would say that the design and finish of this person's pens was not great as many of them seemed to be too big for the slimline kit's. 

I have been considering doing some craft fairs so I was treating this as a bit of a reconnaissance to see if there was anyone 1) selling turned pens 2)selling other turned items. 

So basically I was just wondering what everyone else on the forum charges for pens at their craft fairs? I was under the impression that charging around the £12 mark for a well finished slim line pen was a fair but low price to charge, but seeing them get sold for half of what I deemed to be acceptable is very disheartening. 

Also another point was that he was also selling ash earring stands for £7.50!!!! I know that the wood isn't all that exciting but the labour that goes into making it must outweigh the selling price! 

Someone come to my rescue and give me some words of encouragement....... Please? :roll: 

Thanks for looking guys!


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## jumps (4 Nov 2012)

welcome to a world in which not everyone prices their labour against the same parameters :shock: 

it does rather seem as if this person has read your initial observation regarding pricing gifts at such fairs though...


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## cornucopia (4 Nov 2012)

I dont sell pens anymore but when i did- my black ti or gold ti slimlines were £25 each- the majority of my pens were rollerballs and fountain's and sold for between £40 and £100 each


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## Phil Pascoe (4 Nov 2012)

Don't forget that the guy might have bought them for a few pence each from an importer of tat - I've seen silver jewellery sold as " hand made in wherever" that people "in the know" have told me is certainly imported from India.


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## woodyturner (4 Nov 2012)

One of the biggest problems with village fairs is most of the stool holders are retired or house wives and use fairs just to shift stuff to make room so that they can continue to turn and get there money back and they are not interested in making a profit nor a living the ones who do want to make a small profit are the ones who do it for charity's I have discovered that village fairs are not really the right place to try and get a good price on anything most that go to them want something for nothing.
It is a different story though if you live in a village that has a lot of holiday visitors I found the local flower festival in Lincolnshire was a good outlet not because of the locals but the visitors who were on holiday with cash burning a hole in there pocket


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## Grahamshed (4 Nov 2012)

cornucopia":39zu7hrf said:


> I dont sell pens anymore but when i did- my black ti or gold ti slimlines were £25 each- the majority of my pens were rollerballs and fountain's and sold for between £40 and £100 each



That seems like a fair price to me considering the work that must be involved but it rather begs the question of whether the price you charged and the fact that you do not sell them anymore are related. Did many people actually buy them at that price ?


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## jpt (4 Nov 2012)

Typical small village craft fair you nearly always get a turner who is just selling a few bits to cover costs and usually at the prices they charge they dont mean labour, electric etc just the cost of the wood and bits which is why I dont do them any more.

For standard slimline I charge £20 which includes a presentation box, for fountain and other pens my prices start at £20 and go up from there. Yes they do sell and sell well at those prices.

john


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## =Adam= (4 Nov 2012)

Thanks for the input guys! 

It looks like my thoughts are the same as many on here. When I say that I am looking to do craft fairs, I am not looking to make a fortune, just enough to subsidise my costs of going to university (fuel, food etc) as I have a part time job which pays for most of what I do, just a bit of extra cash would be great! 

The one that I couldn't get over was that he was only charging 7.50 for a earring stand, this is a pittance when you consider the time it takes to turn the three parts and also drill the holes etc.

I think I will look at doing some of the larger craft fairs in the future. By the way, the village is a very well known tourist area however I assume that there wouldn't be many people there right now because it is not quite the "Christmas rush" yet!


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## Tazmaniandevil (4 Nov 2012)

I do pens for gifts, and have sold a couple. I judge them to be worth about £20, and if folk are selling them for less than that they aren't taking their time into account. Add to that the cost of electricity, abrasives, finish, wear & tear on equipment - anyone doing turning for a living would realistically carge more than £20
We had an insurance agent in last week, who noticed some of my pens. He told us he had recently paid £70 for a fountain pen as a graduation gift for his son.


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## cornucopia (4 Nov 2012)

Grahamshed":bbqtqz0m said:


> cornucopia":bbqtqz0m said:
> 
> 
> > I dont sell pens anymore but when i did- my black ti or gold ti slimlines were £25 each- the majority of my pens were rollerballs and fountain's and sold for between £40 and £100 each
> ...



I would say that they sold steadily- between 5 and 10 pens per month, I used to sell thru a shop outlet and the shop changed owners, the new owners didnt want my work and as it was on SOR simply boxed it up and sent it back!!- about the same time I started making the resin boxes and stopped making pens- i also got a bit fedup of the import duties.


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## Doug B (4 Nov 2012)

I chatted to a retired old boy at a fayre, he was selling slimline pens at £6-50 each.

He said he could turn 3 an hour, so take off £1-50 for kit, wood etc & he was making £15 an hour which was double what he earned an hour when he was working :shock: 

Not saying he was right with his pricing, but then again it worked for him & they were selling well, so I couldn`t fault him.


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## marcros (4 Nov 2012)

Tazmaniandevil":1y9o4xrj said:


> I do pens for gifts, and have sold a couple. I judge them to be worth about £20, and if folk are selling them for less than that they aren't taking their time into account. Add to that the cost of electricity, abrasives, finish, wear & tear on equipment - anyone doing turning for a living would realistically carge more than £20
> We had an insurance agent in last week, who noticed some of my pens. He told us he had recently paid £70 for a fountain pen as a graduation gift for his son.



The thing is, if somebody enjoys turning, and sees the fairs as somewhere that they can sell items to cover the costs incurred, they are delighted that their hobby more or less covers its cost. take the ash earring stand, cost of timber and finish is probably 3 or 4 quid, so they get to do some turning and it has cost them nothing. when the lathe and tools wear out, they treat themselves to another because they have got plenty of use out of the last one and enjoy what they do. the fact that it is unprofitable is irrelevant.


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## jumps (4 Nov 2012)

=Adam=":3ddtgljz said:


> Thanks for the input guys!
> ..........
> The one that I couldn't get over was that he was only charging 7.50 for a earring stand, this is a pittance when you consider the time it takes to turn the three parts and also drill the holes etc.



http://www.burford-woodcraft.co.uk/hand ... adley.html

not that far away and not a even in the craft fair market.

setting up a proper production line for such things means that they can be made pretty quickly - you can drill 20 in not much more time than it takes to set up the pillar drill and an index of some sort.


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## woodyturner (4 Nov 2012)

When I did craft fairs I sold mine for £45 Quite successfully but mine had a top that rotated


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## =Adam= (4 Nov 2012)

jumps":18l3avsk said:


> =Adam=":18l3avsk said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the input guys!
> ...




That's a fair point! I would also point out that the one you have linked to appears to be a much nicer finish!


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## andersonec (6 Nov 2012)

marcros":lhinnobu said:


> Tazmaniandevil":lhinnobu said:
> 
> 
> > I do pens for gifts, and have sold a couple. I judge them to be worth about £20, and if folk are selling them for less than that they aren't taking their time into account. Add to that the cost of electricity, abrasives, finish, wear & tear on equipment - anyone doing turning for a living would realistically carge more than £20
> ...



Exactly,,,,,,It's a hobby, and don't forget village fairs don't charge £60 or £80 for a six foot space, some folks do these things for a hobby and only want to recoup their outgoings plus some pocket money so they can buy some more raw material, if you are retired and you find something to do which you enjoy then the idea of charging for your 'time' seems a little OTT and not everybody charges by the minute, if it is not your main source of income then what's the problem? as long as you are not out of pocket is all that matters.

Cornucopia........ maybe if yours had been a bit cheaper you would have sold more than five or ten a month which really averages out at about two a week, how fast were you making them?


Andy


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## cornucopia (6 Nov 2012)

If I had priced my pens any cheaper it wouldn’t have covered costs!!


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## woodyturner (6 Nov 2012)

I think each person is entitled to ask a price that they are happy with in village fairs if you ask for to much then you wont sell anything if your in a major city then you can more or less ask for any price the same if you are supplying collectors or in a selective market like whiskey collectors naval personnel and yacht clubs who want pens from Oak off the HMS victory and riffel clubs same if you are making any form of specialist pens


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## bugbear (7 Nov 2012)

andersonec":37yv3p62 said:


> marcros":37yv3p62 said:
> 
> 
> > Tazmaniandevil":37yv3p62 said:
> ...



Many people turn for a pasttime, and the "products" can be more of a "by-product". This is not good news for other people trying to make a living selling similar items, but that's life.

For somebody wanting to "have a go" at pens, the capital costs of the various jigs and fixtures could be a problem. If that can be (no more than) covered by selling some pens, for a hobbiest, that's desirable.

In any case, you don't want to use your practice pens as gifts for people you like, so they're best sold.  

I have seen some true tat on offer at fairs.

BugBear


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## andersonec (7 Nov 2012)

[/quote]Many people turn for a pasttime, and the "products" can be more of a "by-product". This is not good news for other people trying to make a living selling similar items, but that's life.

For somebody wanting to "have a go" at pens, the capital costs of the various jigs and fixtures could be a problem. If that can be (no more than) covered by selling some pens, for a hobbiest, that's desirable.

In any case, you don't want to use your practice pens as gifts for people you like, so they're best sold.  

I have seen some true tat on offer at fairs.

BugBear[/quote]

It's called 'competition' and every retailer in the world does it,,,,,,,,,,,,,"Every Little Helps!" you try to outdo the next shop to sell your goods. What you need to do is make your stuff more cost effective, more appealing, more attractive, to make people gather round your stuff it has to be good, remember, most turned items are a 'luxury' and not a necessity so it has to have some 'come and buy me' appeal, my daughter makes glass bowls, place settings, dishes etc. http://www.shellyanderson.co.uk/index.htm her prices are within the reach of most pockets so she sells lots (mostly at craft fairs) if you add the time, materials, electricity to run a 6kw kiln etc. it's not cheap but she does it and and she makes a profit, she has to because it's one of the things she does to earn a living.

I know of people who make stuff, sell it then give the proceeds to charity??????

I also have seen tat but not only at craft fairs (check some of your high street shops) and presuming your practice pens are not of the best quality, would that not also come under the heading of 'selling tat' surely your practice efforts would be better given to friends at birthdays etc and your better quality stuff sold, that way you would avoid the reputation of selling stuff that is not quite up to scratch, then again you could put them in a jar and label them 'seconds' people would then know what they are paying for.

As with any other trade, hobby, pastime, it will cost money to start up and I started gathering my machinery a couple of years before I retired, most of the hand tools I already possessed.

Me, I am a hobbyist and make jewellery boxes but so far in the last 18 months most of my boxes have been commandeered by friends and relatives and still have yet to make it to a craft fair, grrrr.

My latest offering









I am trying to do some turned boxes to compliment the jewellery boxes and not keep throwing out good lumps of wood which are no good for anything else but still at the learning stage.
Had a go at this one today, it's a piece of elm





Andy


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## Lee J (8 Nov 2012)

I'm at a craft fair next saturday and on my stall I have done about 10 pens from nice woods...







I'm pricing them at £10 each including velvet pouch. If I sell them all then £100 covers the costs pretty well.


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## nev (8 Nov 2012)

andersonec":i5da9avk said:


> Me, I am a hobbyist and make jewellery boxes but so far in the last 18 months most of my boxes have been commandeered by friends and relatives and still have yet to make it to a craft fair, grrrr.
> 
> My latest offering
> 
> ...



=D>


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## tsg (8 Feb 2014)

I know this thread is a little old but it covers exactly what I want to ask. I intend to start trying to sell at craft fairs etc. but as it is all new to me I am a little bit anxious. Please have a look at my web site and take about £3.00 off the prices, and advise me if I have got it about right or not.
I have got loads more including tables and other small furniture, but need to know what sells the best for least time spent on it.
Thanks
Paul


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## pebbles (8 Feb 2014)

Might just be me/my system, but none of the drop-down menus on your site seem to be working... :?


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## themackay (8 Feb 2014)

I have just been there working ok for me
Alan


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## marcros (8 Feb 2014)

Every craft fair thread I have seen seems to suggest that they can be a bit hit and miss, and can be very location specific as to what sells. Those that do them week I week out have a better insight into what sells at that location, whether there are many browsers and not many buyers, whether the buyers only want to spend a couple of quid etc.


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## Grahamshed (8 Feb 2014)

I think you probably need to find the ones you are interested in and go 'watch' for a day but as Marcros says, it will still probably be hit and miss. The odd ones I have been to ( as a visitor) left me quite pussled.


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## Tazmaniandevil (8 Feb 2014)

pebbles":23nqkx6r said:


> Might just be me/my system, but none of the drop-down menus on your site seem to be working... :?


Working fine for me. The menus etc. are javascript so you may need to enable/install/update the version of java for your browser. Also, I've seen Internet Explorer prior to 10 struggle with Wix generated sites. (not always though..... :duno: )


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## yorkshirepudding (8 Feb 2014)

Most people visiting craft fairs carry little cash. If you are not able to process credit cards then you have a limited market.
If you want to make real money from your turnings I suggest you try some local galleries.


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## pebbles (8 Feb 2014)

Ah... ok thanks. Am using a Mac/Mavericks and Safari. May be it.


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## NikNak (8 Feb 2014)

Adam.....


Also be aware that whatever price you decide to sell for, if you're not 100% happy with what you've taken the time to turn/make then probably neither will your (potential) buyers, i.e. dont kid yourself that you've made a nice well turned item when you know in your heart its not. If your missus is anything like mine get her to appraise your stuff before even thinking of selling.... :shock: 

Cheap kits WILL equal a cheap (looking) pen.... trust me i've been there.

And I can vouch that anyone who was ever lucky enough to buy one of Cornucopias' pens will have gotten hold of a fantastic piece of workmanship.... i've seen them =D> =D> =D> 


Nick


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## tsg (8 Feb 2014)

pebbles":1cphfvc0 said:


> Might just be me/my system, but none of the drop-down menus on your site seem to be working... :?



Pebbles, there is only one drop down menu which is on the 'Gift shop' the others are only single pages at the moment but the site is new and still growing. Please let me know if this doesn't work on your system and I can try and fix it. 
Thanks Paul


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## pebbles (8 Feb 2014)

Thanks tsg - seems to be working fine now! I've long since stopped trying to work out the bizarre oddities of computers. Some very nice things you have for sale too


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## Terry - Somerset (9 Feb 2014)

I started woodturning about 18 months ago and at the time considered doing craft fairs. Having visited a few, I was disappointed by the poor quality of some (not all) of the items and resolved to wait until I was happy with what I produced before even considering it.

However I can identify with pricing low simply to cover costs and make a contribution (however small) to equipment. It allows us to pursue a hobby without filling the house with turnery once friends and xmas presents etc have been satisfied, and hopefully provides some pleasure to the recipient.

I'm now retired but having been an accountant during my working life I still tend to intuitively consider profitability, investment and cash flow even if it isn't immediately necessary. Sad isn't it, although I suspect all skills and trades do the same thing in their own area of expertise!! In the case of woodturning:

- hobbyists doing craft fairs etc generally don't value their time commercially and typically work from shed or garage etc with limited measurable overhead costs

- to make a decent income from lowish value items (sub say £20) would require a production mindset - eg: make batches of 50 pens/bowls rather than unique items. This reduces material costs (bulk buy wood and convert), set up times, uses custom made jigs where appropriate. Also need to find sales outlets, manage stocks, website, collect debts etc etc. This is not a hobby and potentially competes with low labour cost imports.

- I think there may be a living to be made making high quality, artistically original items with a unit price of £40-50+. Finding the right outlets could be a challenge and requires some talent - which I suspect I don't have.

Just a few personal thoughts after a limited time in the business!

Rgds

Terry


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## Grahamshed (9 Feb 2014)

I think you are right on all counts Terry. Maybe what we need is a market / fair/ whatever for higher end crafts where they could be labelled as art pieces and visitors will expect to pay higher prices.


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## Random Orbital Bob (9 Feb 2014)

There is one of those that immediately springs to mind. I can't remember its name but its up at Newmarket race course just before Christmas. My brother took me there several years ago and it was very high end. There were about 5 or 6 different types of wood worker from memory. A chap making incredible Windsor chairs, another that made this superb folding table out of ash and then the turners. I wasn't turning yet at that time but I recall being stunned by some 4' high urns and massive hollow forms out of burrs etc. All in the 3-£500 range


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## Grahamshed (9 Feb 2014)

Sounds like the sort of thing Bob. and decent pens from striking woods could go for £75 or so. I would go to that, if only to look.


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## Richard Findley (9 Feb 2014)

Hi all

It may be of interest to some, I wrote an article in this months Woodturning Magazine that covers the basics of pricing and quoting for work. Might be worth a read if you are planning to sell your work. Next month the topic is marketing, so it all ties in together.

HTH

Richard


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## bellringer (9 Feb 2014)

Richard Findley":12wh5psp said:


> Hi all
> 
> It may be of interest to some, I wrote an article in this months Woodturning Magazine that covers the basics of pricing and quoting for work. Might be worth a read if you are planning to sell your work. Next month the topic is marketing, so it all ties in together.
> 
> ...



always like your articles and look forward to this one


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## Grahamshed (10 Feb 2014)

Have to toddle off to Toolpost then, They seem to be the only place to get it around here.


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