# Basic tools....



## Jameshow (16 Sep 2021)

Not sure it's been covered, but what basic tools would you buy for a new workshop? 

I'm kitting out a new men's shed and thinking of tools I might need. 

We have been itinerant for a while so have some tools. 

Night be of use to others....

Saws tenon / panels

Planes 3,4,5 

Cordless drills

Set squares

Tapes 

Hammers / mallets 

Chisels 

Screwdrivers 

Vices clamps work benches. 

Power tools- 

Pillar drill 

Table saw

Bandsaw 

Jigsaw 

Lathe.


----------



## JobandKnock (16 Sep 2021)

Try square, NOT set square. TBH a 300mm combination square, such as a Bahco is far more useful for general work than a try square (can be used to mark out square cuts, mitre cuts, test for square, mark out patallels such as hinge recesses, check depths, transfer measurements without measuring - more accurate)

I think I'd add a jigsaw and a portable circular saw, and maybe a sander

What are you doing about extension cables?


----------



## Jameshow (16 Sep 2021)

Yes Tri squares. 

I like the bahco ones too.

Jigsaw of course and circular saw although we try and limit thier use for h&s reasons. 

We have temp power from the main building 

Cheers James


----------



## JobandKnock (16 Sep 2021)

The other thing I noticed is absent is a block plane


----------



## mikej460 (16 Sep 2021)

Rulers
Compressor & nail gun
Router & table plus cutters
Trim Router


----------



## skeetstar (17 Sep 2021)

Pliers, pincers, tape measures, sharpening kit, shooting board, vacs, more clamps, then even more clamps. I assume folks bring their own consumables like s paper and glues.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> The other thing I noticed is absent is a block plane


I've a nice block plane - I think I've used it twice in about thirty years. These lists are a bit of a slippery slope.


----------



## Ttrees (17 Sep 2021)

Is there f clamps in lidl at this very minute?
I have bought a bin full of the largest size, and rate them mens shed indestructible!.
I haven't tested out the other two smaller sizes, to see if the screw heads might fall off.
(the Achillies heel of many a clamp)
Might get one or two today if the vices are sold out, or not the same as the old one I have.

Get'em before the pencil pushers decide to cheap out on them.
They have already changed supplier, come with a handle not quite as grippy, and thread is a few mm shorter, still plenty long throw on them though, I would be peed off if they were not still suitable.


----------



## recipio (17 Sep 2021)

Steel rulers. lots of them including a meter rule. Stay away from supermarket tools and buy the best as you can afford them. As I've posted elsewhere splurge for a Mitutoya vernier gauge as that Chinese vernier will only last about six months.


----------



## JobandKnock (17 Sep 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I've a nice block plane - I think I've used it twice in about thirty years. These lists are a bit of a slippery slope.


Go fit a door, or better several, or a kitchen. In fact go fit _anything _and you'll find out how useful a block plane really is. I've been using mine today to final fit about a dozen front doors. It isn't possible for me to hold onto a door with one hand and use a smoothing plane in the other on account of my deficit in the arms department (I only have two)


----------



## ICD (17 Sep 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Is there f clamps in lidl at this very minute?
> I have bought a bin full of the largest size, and rate them mens shed indestructible!.
> I haven't tested out the other two smaller sizes, to see if the screw heads might fall off.
> (the Achillies heel of many a clamp)
> ...



All three sizes are going to be available in Lidl from 26th September


----------



## Jameshow (17 Sep 2021)

ICD said:


> All three sizes are going to be available in Lidl from 26th September


Will get down there!


----------



## Jameshow (17 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Go fit a door, or better several, or a kitchen. In fact go fit _anything _and you'll find out how useful a block plane really is. I've been using mine today to final fit about a dozen front doors. It isn't possible for me to hold onto a door with one hand and use a smoothing plane in the other on account of my deficit in the arms department (I only have two)


I use mine out and about all the time. Mines a faithful cheapy!

Cheers James


----------



## Austin Branson (17 Sep 2021)

How about a bench? 
a bench vise
Router plane
Compass (360 degrees )
Compasses
Shoulder plane
Planer/thicknesser
Morticer
Sliding compound mitre saw
Spindle moulder


----------



## Jacob (17 Sep 2021)

This was the TOPs C&G kit we were issued with on release:

Toolbox - made week 5
5 1/2 Record jack plane
Good quality Sanderson & Kayser saws:
26" hand saw 6tpi
22" panel saw 10tpi
14" tenon saw 14tpi
3 Marples firmer chisels 1" 3/4" 1/2"
Rabone Combination square
Whitehill 16oz claw hammer
Nail pullers (Footprint?)
sliding bevel (poor quality)
double sided oil stone - box made week 6
big screwdriver
small screwdriver
2 ft boxwood rule
nail punch
brace & bit (one 32mm bit for yale locks
mallet
S&J carpenters axe
marking gauge
bradawl
brass face marples spirit level
plumb bob

Still got them all except the boxwood rule and a few things replaced
5m tape and Block plane 220 perhaps the most important early additions


----------



## Jacob (17 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Go fit a door, or better several, or a kitchen. In fact go fit _anything _and you'll find out how useful a block plane really is. I've been using mine today to final fit about a dozen front doors. It isn't possible for me to hold onto a door with one hand and use a smoothing plane in the other on account of my deficit in the arms department (I only have two)


Paring chisel too for door fitting - it reaches the parts other tools can't reach and with one hand.
Used to scribe stuff with the carpenters axe followed by the block plane.


----------



## TRITON (17 Sep 2021)

CNC router, 3D printer,Laser cutter...

Actually the 3D printers these days are super cheap, and not like old dogs can't learn new tricks.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> Go fit a door, or better several, or a kitchen. In fact go fit _anything _and you'll find out how useful a block plane really is. I've been using mine today to final fit about a dozen front doors. It isn't possible for me to hold onto a door with one hand and use a smoothing plane in the other on account of my deficit in the arms department (I only have two)


 Curiously I have only two arms, but manage perfectly well with a smoother. This is why lists like this are really a bit pointless - what works for one person doesn't necesarily do so for another. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong. No doubt someone will say a bradawl is necessary - I haven't owned or used one in in 55 years of buying and using tools.


----------



## Jacob (17 Sep 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Curiously I have only two arms, but manage perfectly well with a smoother. This is why lists like this are really a bit pointless - what works for one person doesn't necesarily do so for another. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong. No doubt someone will say a bradawl is necessary - I haven't owned or used one in in 55 years of buying and using tools.


2 bradawls are essential. You can hang a door on one bradawl (and a wedge) while you use the other starting holes for the other screws. 
I thought the Tops course selection (above) was pretty well thought out - they all got well used


----------



## Phil Pascoe (17 Sep 2021)

See, I was right.


----------



## Jameshow (17 Sep 2021)

Jacob said:


> This was the TOPs C&G kit we were issued with on release:
> 
> Toolbox - made week 5
> 5 1/2 Record jack plane
> ...


Good list!


----------



## Jameshow (17 Sep 2021)

Jacob said:


> 2 bradawls are essential. You can hang a door on one bradawl (and a wedge) while you use the other starting holes for the other screws.
> I thought the Tops course selection (above) was pretty well thought out - they all got well used


Never thought if using a bradawl for hanging a door! Usually the first screw! 

Cheers James


----------



## Jacob (17 Sep 2021)

Jameshow said:


> Never thought if using a bradawl for hanging a door! Usually the first screw!
> 
> Cheers James


First screw goes in the hole below the bradawl then you can remove it.


----------



## D_W (17 Sep 2021)

Jacob said:


> Paring chisel too for door fitting - it reaches the parts other tools can't reach and with one hand.
> Used to scribe stuff with the carpenters axe followed by the block plane.



Something we'd agree on, but for different reasons!!
I could say I never find a use for paring, but cleaning up the innards of a wooden plane while making it cut left to right with no clogs no matter what it's planing....a narrow and thin paring chisel is super for that. For someone making lots of planes, it would be double super. 

It's always tempting to say they have little use other than for patternmakers.


----------



## D_W (17 Sep 2021)

Here's my thoughts:
* try plane (wooden), jack plane (wooden), stanley 4 (3 if someone likes the 3 better) - it's nice to also have a metal jointer added to that group - not critical, but nice to have.
* two mortise chisels in most used size
* two paring chisels - 1/4" and 3/4"
* a set of english bench chisels
* combination grinder and buffer and a fine india stone
* two large rip saws (one in around 4 point and one in 6) - one in 5 1/2 would be fine in a real pinch
* two large crosscut saws (one 7 or so points and one 11) - one in 10 would be fine in a real pinch
* one rip dovetail saw (doesn't have to be expensive), one crosscut sash saw around 12" and 12 point or so and one tenon saw around 10 or 11 point and 14" long
* one japanese hard tooth crosscut saw, but relatively fine cutting (like z265)
* some sandpaper (not critical what it is , but could be two psa roll 80 and 220, and then finish paper in 220 or 320
* a decent flat spokeshave and a decent concave spokeshave
* one inexpensive hand cut rasp from overseas, and a couple of worn out files to follow it
* one decent wheel gauge (like veritas) and a gaggle of other knife and nail gauges
* one good tape measure, one good 12" draftsman's rules with the tip ground to zero of the rule starts other than that, a 24" rule and a 48" tinner's rule (cheaper than a bigger rule, and usually crisply marked)
* a good bench with a pair of holdfasts and a few dogs
* four pairs of hollows and rounds
* two small beading planes
* one good wooden moving fillister
* one good rabbet plane, about 1" wide
* files for saw care
* a few basic gouges (you can make the slips) and a bar of honing compound (something cheap - like gold alumina)
* one good vintage hardened head 12" square and one decent inexpensive 4"-6" fixed square
* one good straight edge (or one junker)
* one decent propane torch and a quart of cooking oil, and a small amount of refractory blanket
* one decent cordless drill
* two 2x12s to make a poor man's saw bench
* a couple of good pencils and a strong-marking pen.


----------



## Jameshow (17 Sep 2021)

D_W said:


> Here's my thoughts:
> * try plane (wooden), jack plane (wooden), stanley 4 (3 if someone likes the 3 better) - it's nice to also have a metal jointer added to that group - not critical, but nice to have.
> * two mortise chisels in most used size
> * two paring chisels - 1/4" and 3/4"
> ...


Giving Jacob a good run for his money!

Cheers James


----------



## D_W (17 Sep 2021)

I'm sure he could outbuild me on a site, but his tools would be 1/3rd as sharp. I'm thinking of coming up with sayings like. 

"I haven't had a good brandy since the last time Jacob used a sharp tool".


----------



## JobandKnock (17 Sep 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Curiously I have only two arms, but manage perfectly well with a smoother.


But not for the task I mentioned. The problem is that doors are hung on hinges and can swing, so they aren't conveniently fixed in place like a block of wood in a vice. And you often can't wedge a door to stop one moving because that might mark a finished floor, for example, so you may need to use one hand to hold onto a workpiece whilst you plane the door edge with the other. A simple task with a block plane, an almost impossible task with a smoothing plane. In construction and fit-out there are lots of tasks like this. There are also situations where the the adjustable mouth on a block plane makes dealing with awkward grain in lippings far easier.


----------



## JobandKnock (17 Sep 2021)

D_W said:


> I'm sure he could outbuild me on a site, but his tools would be 1/3rd as sharp.


I'm pretty sure the absolute sharpness you crave simply isn't maintainable on site, or for that matter necessary most of the time. So Jacob would probably be going home with a nice pay packet whilst you'd be skint, having spent all your time rehoning and rehoning your tool edges instead of getting stuff done in a timely manner. That's no way to build the world. Anyway, what makes you think his cutting edges are too dull to work? Or that they are any duller than, say, a Victorian carpenter's tools? Just curious

PS in response to yourvearlier comment, good socialist principles would suggest that in the spirit of equality Jacob and I share a duo tandem, comrade


----------



## D_W (17 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> I'm pretty sure the absolute sharpness you crave simply isn't maintainable on site, or for that matter necessary most of the time. So Jacob would probably be going home with a nice pay packet whilst you'd be skint, having spent all your time rehoning and rehoning your tool edges instead of getting stuff done in a timely manner. That's no way to build the world. Anyway, what makes you think his cutting edges are too dull to work? Or that they are any duller than, say, a Victorian carpenter's tools? Just curious



I'd do what I do for a living instead and use pleasurably sharp tools, be money and hobby ahead.

I think cabinetmakers would've used tools sharpened similar to mine, same with planemakers and instrument makers.


----------



## JobandKnock (17 Sep 2021)

...


----------



## JobandKnock (17 Sep 2021)

So, you're admitting you'd be useless on site, then? Glad we got that sorted


----------



## TRITON (18 Sep 2021)

One thing that appears to have been left out of everyone's lists...

...Tea making facilities 



D_W said:


> I think cabinetmakers would've used tools sharpened similar to mine, same with planemakers and instrument makers.


Viceroy disc whetstone.
Like all industrial set ups, the need to keep the tools honed to a very fine edge is something that will be done daily, but again some sort of machine to make that happen quickly will be used, which is why in bigger cabinet shops that pretty much churned out fine or any sort of furniture, the big whetstone grinder would always have a place. They werent interested in having people spending too much time rehoning chisels.

The last big industrial butchery i worked in had a sharpenset whetstone on the go pretty much all day, and you'd rehone your knife at least two or three times a day. Knives, much like chisels and planer blades are consumable items, and in that environment, I'd go through at least 2 boning knives per year. Knives in that environment have to be razor sharp and its far quicker to use a machine that try to do it by hand.
In a small retail butchers I'd maybe regrind the knife 3 or 4 times a year and hone it maybe once a week, obviously using a steel every couple of minutes depending on what I was doing.

Again it all depends on how much work you are actually doing.


----------



## Phil Pascoe (18 Sep 2021)

JobandKnock said:


> But not for the task I mentioned. The problem is that doors are hung on hinges and can swing, so they aren't conveniently fixed in place like a block of wood in a vice. And you often can't wedge a door to stop one moving because that might mark a finished floor, for example, so you may need to use one hand to hold onto a workpiece whilst you plane the door edge with the other. A simple task with a block plane, an almost impossible task with a smoothing plane. In construction and fit-out there are lots of tasks like this. There are also situations where the the adjustable mouth on a block plane makes dealing with awkward grain in lippings far easier.



I have fitted dozens of doors without a blockplane. I'm not suggesting you don't use a blockplane, but the fact that you chose to doesn't make it impossible to do it without one. You are going down the Jacob route - if it's not done the way I choose it's wrong.


----------



## D_W (18 Sep 2021)

TRITON said:


> One thing that appears to have been left out of everyone's lists...
> 
> ...Tea making facilities
> 
> ...



Once I cooked up the "unicorn" method, which allows full sharpness of stuff that doesn't sharpen that well by hand (knives that are a little soft, etc), it seemed like if you had a fixed tool, for a couple of hundred bucks, you could create a machine that you could pull a long knife through in about 15 seconds total and get a blinding sharp edge that would hold up better in a production environment than just "sharpening the apex to a point" with stones.

I sharpen all of my knives now with a deburring wheel and the buff (They're sharper and the edge lasts longer without as steep of an angle behind it, and thus they're not just sharper, but easier through anything that doesn't need to be wedged apart). I could see coming up with a western made device for a production environment (like commercial butchering) for a grand and it would pay for itself quickly. Of course, with some skilled users, you don't need a point and shoot machine like that, but I can't see much hand sharpening other than perhaps by chefs in smaller kitchens or by small butchers.

And I can't see production butchers tolerating anything that isn't really sharp and with good geometry because poor results would be very quickly noticed.

Before round wheels were common, I gather than giant sandstone rub stones were common to minimize the grinding time. If one reads too much now, they'd conclude that they were slow (And compared to a giant silicon carbide rub stone, they may be), but a heavy hand and a minute on a really coarse friable silica stone would probably cover several honing sessions. I doubt it was much slower. No steel with carbides harder than iron carbides in quantity, though, and no overhard or overthick tools. Corundum (natural aluminum oxide) was listed as lapidary supply references hundreds of years ago, but I've never read far enough to see if that got further than cutlers and polishers. I doubt it was necessary.

Tea supplies would be replaced by coffee or "mini beer fridge" in the US.


----------



## David C (18 Sep 2021)

The man who taught me, got us a tool kit from Tyzack for just over £90. This is around 1971. 

Tool lists for my long term (40 week) courses were about £ 2,000 in the nineties.

He also used a bench design from the Rural Industries Bureau.

Best wishes,
David Charlesworth


----------



## Jacob (18 Sep 2021)

D_W said:


> ...
> 
> It's always tempting to say they have little use other than for patternmakers.


They have lots of uses which is why they are so common and often found worn short with use.
Being long means they need to be slender and light
Basically for paring/planing" but in places where a plane can't easily reach e.g. bottom of a hanging door edge where the plane would hit the floor, inside mortices, across tenons, etc. The long length is for reach and also for accuracy - easier to get a straight cut.


----------



## Jacob (18 Sep 2021)

Phil Pascoe said:


> I have fitted dozens of doors without a blockplane. I'm not suggesting you don't use a blockplane, but the fact that you chose to doesn't make it impossible to do it without one.


Nobody said that - but they are very useful and indispensable when you get the habit


> You are going down the Jacob route - if it's not done the way I choose it's wrong.


I never said that but it seems to get you excited as you've repeated it at every opportunity. Feels like being stalked - some threads you are even commenting and waiting for me to arrive!


----------



## Jacob (18 Sep 2021)

D_W said:


> ......And I can't see production butchers tolerating anything that isn't really sharp and with good geometry because poor results would be very quickly noticed.
> .......


Try asking one?
Friend of mine is food technologist and was a butcher in a family of butchers. He said they sharpened all knives with steel alone and had done for generations.
I didn't ask about cleavers and such, I guess they'd need a medium/fine stone.


----------



## Richard_C (18 Sep 2021)

Tool related, if not exactly tools. 

First aid box, so if someone does get a cut they won't drip blood onto expensive wood.

A very good lock, so all the carefully acquired tools are there when you come back next day. Maybe a lockable cabinet or two bolted to something solid.

A decent size crowbar which someone keeps at home so you can get in when the key to the above gets lost.


----------



## D_W (18 Sep 2021)

Jacob said:


> Try asking one?
> Friend of mine is food technologist and was a butcher in a family of butchers. He said they sharpened all knives with steel alone and had done for generations.
> I didn't ask about cleavers and such, I guess they'd need a medium/fine stone.



Must've been a serrated steel.


----------



## Jameshow (18 Sep 2021)

Wow I didn't think this thread would have such legs and reaches well beyond the tools I had thought of! 

Cheers James


----------



## Inspector (18 Sep 2021)

What kind of men’s shed is it? A small one devoted to small things with hand tools will have different needs to a group making cabinets, book cases, tables and chairs verses a group of mainly wood turners. A place with all will need pretty much everything at a greater cost.

Pete


----------



## Jameshow (18 Sep 2021)

The shed in starting is at a mental health charity in Spipley, clients have multiple conditions. 

We make loads of basic stuff. Planters, sheds etc. 

However i try to avoid bird tables and boxes!! 

I have said to the chaps we would make them each a tool box / caddy to stretch their skills! 

We have a few more skilled guys but they are mainly at my Baildon shed. 

Cheers James


----------



## Cabinetman (19 Sep 2021)

Tool caddy? Just started putting this one together in the states where I am, the other two pictures are of my UK one which gets brought out of the tool cupboard every day, the other thing that is on there that I don’t think has been mentioned is a nice hardwood wedge, very useful when hanging doors. Ian


----------



## Stevekane (19 Sep 2021)

Im looking at a Stanley No4 to replace my old marples replaceable blade plane that along with an electric plane (a vicious beast!) has done me up till now, anyway I was looking at buying an old Record and found this Stanley for sale at £20, would people mind taking a look at the photos and giving an opinion, I seem to have read that some of the most modern offerings are poor quality? I questioned if this one had wooden handles as they looked a bit plastic to me, but he has confirmed they are wood,,any thoughts appreciated














,
Steve.


----------



## Adam W. (19 Sep 2021)

looks ok to me, but handles look plastic.


----------



## Jameshow (19 Sep 2021)

Looks genuine to me!


----------



## Ttrees (19 Sep 2021)

Look plastic to me too.
The 4 pic down looks like the sole has a radius to me, which I've never noticed from a photo before...
Could be a camera playing up.
I'm guessing its the ones which would suit a small scrub plane, as the mouth is nice and large.
similar to the cordovan stanley planes.

I would be on the bay and find something for the same money else personally.
Tom


----------



## Jacob (19 Sep 2021)

I've got one the same with plastic handles. It's a very nice good quality plane and you would hardly notice the plastic. Not all plastic products are cr ap.
This one looks in good condition too.
Oi give it foive!
It'd be great shame to try to turn it into a scrub plane.


----------



## Ttrees (19 Sep 2021)

I meant that you wouldn't have to do any filing as the mouth is likely very large already,
(Not saying that it would be a good idea to take a file to any mouth of any Bailey plane.)

I can't fault the plastic handles either TBH, I've even picked up the wrong 4 and used it a few times.
And not saying that it couldn't make a good smoother either.

If that picture is accurate, it means a lot of spot working of the middle to make a good smoother.

Tom


----------



## Cabinetman (19 Sep 2021)

Jacob said:


> I've got one the same with plastic handles. It's a very nice good quality plane and you would hardly notice the plastic. Not all plastic products are cr ap.
> This one looks in good condition too.
> Oi give it foive!
> It'd be great shame to try to turn it into a scrub plane.


They don’t look plastic at all to me, and it looks to be a fairly decent plane so go for it.
I have a plastic handled one in the states but it soon fettled up and the plastic feels not too bad at all actually, turned out to be nice to use which for a brand new one really surprised me. Ian


----------



## Jacob (19 Sep 2021)

Cabinetman said:


> They don’t look plastic at all to me,


They are


> and it looks to be a fairly decent plane


It is.
Just checked - mine is identical except its a 3 not a 4. 
The only clue to it being plastic is a moulding seam across the top of the handle but otherwise perfect.


----------



## Stevekane (19 Sep 2021)

Well plastic or not it does look as though I should be giving it a go,,
Many thanks everyone and if I get it I will check the handles and let you know what I find,,
Steve.


----------



## thetyreman (20 Sep 2021)

they are plastic handles, I got a similar plane and made my own handles for it, well worth taking the time to do it, you can use turning blanks.


----------



## Limey Lurker (20 Sep 2021)

I don't think that Stanley used plastic handles on planes with brass adjusting knobs and assembled lateral levers (as opposed to lateral levers that were bent into shape). It also seems to have the forged yoke; another plus! The plane looks good to me; well worth £20! (And if there is varnish chipped off the handles, then they're wood!)


----------



## Jacob (20 Sep 2021)

Limey Lurker said:


> I don't think that Stanley used plastic handles on planes with brass adjusting knobs and assembled lateral levers...


They did. I've got one and Stevekane has posted pictures of one above.
Perfectly good quality too , and at first glance it looks like rosewood with an oiled finish.


----------



## Cabinetman (20 Sep 2021)

For information, the one I bought last year in the US has plastic handles a "bent" lateral adjuster cast yolk and surprisingly a brass depth adjuster. It cost $60 about £45.


----------



## D_W (20 Sep 2021)

Stevekane said:


> Well plastic or not it does look as though I should be giving it a go,,
> Many thanks everyone and if I get it I will check the handles and let you know what I find,,
> Steve.



I have one with plastic handles - had one before. If there's a seam, just scrape the seam off. The handles aren't at all uncomfortable otherwise, even if they don't have the looks most want. 

The most recent one that I had came with significant flatness issues (surprisingly, it was hollow across its with, and almost dead flat end to end). A 5 that I had in the past had no such issues (my recent one was made in mexico). 

I had one maroon casted version from England that had an adjuster that was too fat to fit in the slot on the iron, but otherwise, they've been pretty good that I've had (if they need a little flattening, they're not big planes so no problem). 

The irons (both in the english plane and the mexico plane) are actually pretty good - better than the ones that were in the planes in the 70s, which are really the only ones that are really soft.


----------



## mikej460 (20 Sep 2021)

From what I can see from these pics it looks like an older model - is there a screw in the front toe of the tote? If not then it is definitely an older model and the tote may be tad loose as a result (I have one and despite taking a smidge off the tote bolt is has a very slight movement (like a slight click) every time I pick it up but doesn't affect its performance at all. The varnish they used can make the the knob and tote look like plastic but I'd ask the seller if it bothers you. I am erring on them being wood. If it's wood then you can scrape off the varnish with the side of a chisel, sand and apply several coats of shellac or boiled linseed oil.


----------



## Stevekane (20 Sep 2021)

Well Im afraid it was all rather academic, the chap sold it despite me saying I would take it,,I suppose the buyer could pick it up straight away, anyway its far from wasted effort as I now have a much better idea of what Im looking at, once again, many thanks to you all, 
Steve.


----------



## Ttrees (20 Sep 2021)

There's quite a few no.4's on the bay for half, or just over half that asking price.
I wouldn't be put off a bit of surface rust, will come off with a lick.
Easier to fettle than a shiny one with a sole possibly needing a lot of work.


----------



## Jacob (21 Sep 2021)

Ttrees said:


> There's quite a few no.4's on the bay for half, or just over half that asking price.
> I wouldn't be put off a bit of surface rust, will come off with a lick.
> Easier to fettle than a shiny one with a sole possibly needing a lot of work.


It's generally a myth about soles needing a lot of work. It's just one of the modern sharpeners' rituals and keeps them happy. 
I've only ever had one plane where anything seriously needed doing more than just removal of rust and other roughness due to damage etc. It was a Stanley 7 with a pronounced concave sole. I've even had a new "Faithfull" with perfect sole and blade, but everything else badly done making it unusable


----------



## Ttrees (21 Sep 2021)

Seems to me folks have been _trying_ to flatten planes for a long time,
should one come across umpteen job lots of thin soled planes with full length irons.
So I don't believe it's a modern sharpening thing Jacob.

Tom


----------



## Jacob (21 Sep 2021)

Ttrees said:


> Seems to me folks have been _trying_ to flatten planes for a long time,
> should one come across umpteen job lots of thin soled planes with full length irons.
> So I don't believe it's a modern sharpening thing Jacob.
> 
> Tom


Well yes saw you photos earlier. Unusual to see so many wrecked planes and wonder if there was a back story, where did you get them from?
Strange that people couldn't actually flatten them without destroying them.
I've never seen a "thin soled"plane.


----------



## Ttrees (21 Sep 2021)

I could probably easily find another few collections of planes in that condition on the bay or google.
It's not unusual, but maybe a bit more uncommon these days, as folks are taking them to bits now instead.
A lot more parts listed like the bare castings for instance, than when I was shopping even just a few years ago.
Seen quite a few full length irons too while I had a quick look, 
Using buy it now filter, uk only, used, and cheapest first, you can see for yourself.

Pure speculation on my part, but as said can find you some more job lots if you like.

Tom


----------



## Jacob (21 Sep 2021)

Ttrees said:


> I could probably easily find another few collections of planes in that condition on the bay or google.
> It's not unusual, but maybe a bit more uncommon these days, as folks are taking them to bits now instead.
> A lot more parts listed like the bare castings for instance, than when I was shopping even just a few years ago.
> Seen quite a few full length irons too while I had a quick look,
> ...


I reckon they come from dubious gurus giving dodgy plane flattening lessons!
I've deliberately bought some rusty ruins out of interest to see how much you need to do to get them going again, but never a particularly un flat sole amongst them.


----------



## Ttrees (21 Sep 2021)

They have a good patina on the soles what I've seen.
Doesn't seem like its a new thing to me.


----------

