# Yet another english style workbench build



## SteL (25 Aug 2020)

I recently decided to move from an utter noob and upgrade to complete novice by building my own workbench. I was off work due to the lockdown so what better opportunity. The only problem was I started looking on places like this to decide what style bench to build, what material to use, what vice... and before I knew it lockdown was over! As usual, I had procrastinated too long so I just lumped for the English style bench using the plans and videos from The English Woodworker. Once I had decided on the bench I scoured the Internet for posts showing beginners building this kind of bench in the hope I could avoid some of the mistakes. I found one post on here that saved my bacon...









English Workbench Build


It is entirely up to the user's needs - there is no best. For what I do MY bench is infinitely better without an apron.




www.ukworkshop.co.uk





The way I'd planned my bench I was about to have the same problem little dangly bits encountered in that post. So I thought I'd share and concentrate on my cockups so they might help anyone else doing this build in the future. I sometimes find you can learn more from someone who is only a few steps ahead of you. Someone who is experienced can find it hard to remember back to the time they were new and can overlook the things that seem obvious to them but are major hangups for beginners. Although I have to say the video series on The English Woodworker is top-notch.

Right to kick off with cockup number 1...

Not going and choosing my own wood. Unfortunately for me, my local timber merchant had their yard still closed to the public due to coronavirus and I wasn't up for waiting any longer so I just overestimated what I needed in the hope I could pick and choose. The jury is out on if that'll be the case!


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## AndyT (25 Aug 2020)

Watching with interest.

You are so right when you say

_I sometimes find you can learn more from someone who is only a few steps ahead of you. Someone who is experienced can find it hard to remember back to the time they were new and can overlook the things that seem obvious to them but are major hangups for beginners. _

That's one of the strengths of a forum like this and why nobody should be put off posting.


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## SteL (25 Aug 2020)

I was able to cut around some bad bits to get 4 clean legs.











This brings me to cockup number 2. And the worst thing about this one is I had already seen someone else do the same thing...

Not squaring the legs. 

I think it is because that bit is missed off the video series. Every other component gets the full treatment apart from the legs. I squared a face and edge to do my markings off, but when I eventually came to fit the rails to the legs they were far too tight to hammer home. This was because the leg face that the rail's shoulder sits on was on a slope sort of wedging the joint as I hammered it in. Luckily I realised this was the thing causing the tightness otherwise I would have kept reducing the size of the rail.


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## SteL (25 Aug 2020)

AndyT said:


> Watching with interest.
> 
> You are so right when you say
> 
> ...



Thanks, Andy. I'm just catching up posting from my notes where I am up to now (not that far really just the trestles almost taking some sort of shape). 

Another way I think experienced people can be inhibited when teaching beginners is that they don't want to oversimplify something only to be inundated with comments on how wrong they are under certain conditions or situations. As a beginner you have no reputation or kudos to lose, you're known for making naff stuff so anything that goes right is just a bonus!


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## Fitzroy (25 Aug 2020)

Loving it, keep it up. There are many ways to skin a cat and I like seeing how others do things.
Fitz.


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## billw (25 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> As a beginner you have no reputation or kudos to lose, you're known for making naff stuff so anything that goes right is just a bonus!



Making stuff is definitely the best way to learn!


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## thetyreman (25 Aug 2020)

looks good so far!


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## Orraloon (26 Aug 2020)

Looking good.


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## pitch pine (26 Aug 2020)

I think you did well with cockup number 2 working out why the joint wouldn't fit. It is really easy when test fitting joints to shave the wrong bit and make a bad situation worse.


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## deema (26 Aug 2020)

The old timers who did everything with hand tools would only 4 square if absolutely necessary, I.e. if it as on show or had joinery on every side. It’s good practice to mark the two sides your going to make true to each other, or your reference sides with a tick or ‘6‘ with the long tail coming of the edge that joins the two sides. This is a well recognised way of marking them. In your case, if you’d made the two reference sides the inside face and the face that will take the stretcher you wouldn’t need other than for aesthetics to have trued up all 4 sides.


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## SteL (26 Aug 2020)

After the legs, it was onto the rails. 


pitch pine said:


> I think you did well with cockup number 2 working out why the joint wouldn't fit. It is really easy when test fitting joints to shave the wrong bit and make a bad situation worse.



I'll be totally honest, you would laugh if you only knew how long I spent trying to figure that issue out on the first joint! It was literally the first joint I tried to fit so it was very disheartening. I was shaving minuscule amounts off and it was feeling no different each time. I had practised making these joints on some scrap and realised you can go from nice tight-fitting to a useless joint within a few careless strokes. The thing that eventually gave it away was looking at the marks being left on the leg. I could see the bruising all on that inside face of the leg. When I looked closer I couldn't even force a fingernail between the shoulder and the leg. Then I put my square to the leg and realised my cockup. Being a beginner you never know if a problem is salvageable or a start again type of issue. In this case, after sweating and cursing myself for a while it ended up okay.

I consoled myself by realising I'm going to have to trade my time for lack of skill and experience. I had friends and family asking if I'd finished that workbench yet after a couple of days! That doesn't help.


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## AJB Temple (26 Aug 2020)

It's a great way to learn. Good for you posting your experiences. And it's true for me too - I always grossly underestimate how long projects will take. The fact is that wives, kids, shopping, garden, work and other annoying stuff is a distraction.


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## SteL (26 Aug 2020)

deema said:


> The old timers who did everything with hand tools would only 4 square if absolutely necessary, I.e. if it as on show or had joinery on every side. It’s good practice to mark the two sides your going to make true to each other, or your reference sides with a tick or ‘6‘ with the long tail coming of the edge that joins the two sides. This is a well recognised way of marking them. In your case, if you’d made the two reference sides the inside face and the face that will take the stretcher you wouldn’t need other than for aesthetics to have trued up all 4 sides.



That is a great way of describing it. This is exactly why I wanted to post this build so these mistakes are documented. If I had read your post before starting I would have avoided this cockup. In fact, I've only just realised that. I thought the takeaway lesson was just to do all sides when all I needed to do was choose the correct faces to square. 

I am doing this all by hand. I have no machine tools apart from a cordless drill. In fact, I have very little hand tools. I've been having to acquire them as I run into needing them. I have to do this covertly, though. One of the touted benefits I said to my partner of building the bench myself was the wood only cost £160. Then under my breath.... and £60 on a tenon saw.... and £150 on a block plane.... and £150 on a shoulder plane... etc. I'm not listing the rest in case she reads it and it is used as evidence against me!


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## SteL (26 Aug 2020)

Now onto cutting out the bottom rails. They went quite smoothly really. The only tough bit I found was the dovetail section. The first couple was very slow going and I found the best way was to be more confident and do long flowing strokes with the chisel. At first, I was taking small bites to cut out the shape and found I then had a bumpy surface.






For my age, my eyesight is woeful so I tried using tape to also mark out the lines (can't remember where I got that idea - some YouTube clip)...






I gave up on that, though. It was a pain to do and something from Amazon arrived...






I look like a complete silly person (a cross between Mr Magoo and Robocop) and you think you still have it on when you go to bed, but It really helps me be more precise.

At the time of cutting these joints, I didn't own a shoulder plane so my idea was to just get the shoulder straight off the saw. I even bought a £60 veritas tenon saw so it'd be neat. When practising I'd say it was a 50/50 chance on me getting that shoulder line straight. When it is slightly off it looked terrible. If I cocked it up one way it was fixable with a chisel but I ended up with a crappy shoulder line then. That is when I decided to cheat and make a guide to compensate for my lack of skill. 






I'd love to say I progressed and started cutting the joints by hand but I didn't feel confident enough. I'm a bit disappointed about this cop-out but other than burning through the wood until I got a perfect cut I couldn't think of an alternative. 

Anyway, eventually, they were done...







Right onto the cockup. When cutting the dovetail I obviously first saw the shoulder, then begin slicing with my chisel up to that shoulder. I was surprised to find that the shoulder line wasn't some magical barrier that your chisel automatically knows to stop at. I tried to take far too deep of an initial shaving and instead of backing off, I solved the problem by using more force. That resulted in the chisel hitting the shoulder and putting a split in it. I stuck some glue in, clamped it and pretended it never happened. On the rest, I did a sort of knife wall thing (Paul Sellers I think that was from) but kept going until I was about 5mm down. Then the shoulder could take a bit of a stab!


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## Blaidd-Drwg (26 Aug 2020)

I may be in the minority here, but I don't consider a guide to be a cheat. If it is, I'm a big one. I use guides for saw cuts, mortising, just about anything I can use a guide for because I don't do them everyday so the muscle memory never has a chance to develop.


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## SteL (26 Aug 2020)

Blaidd-Drwg said:


> I may be in the minority here, but I don't consider a guide to be a cheat. If it is, I'm a big one. I use guides for saw cuts, mortising, just about anything I can use a guide for because I don't do them everyday so the muscle memory never has a chance to develop.



True. I have absolutely no clue if it is generally considered a cheat and a sin or if everyone uses them. I'd love to develop the skill to just do without a guide but while I'm using one that's not going to happen I suppose. I have practised on scrap wood but it's a bit like practising penalties, it's not the same when it counts for something!


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## custard (26 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> I have practised on scrap wood but it's a bit like practising penalties, it's not the same when it counts for something!



Brilliant!


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## billw (26 Aug 2020)

Blaidd-Drwg said:


> I may be in the minority here, but I don't consider a guide to be a cheat. If it is, I'm a big one. I use guides for saw cuts, mortising, just about anything I can use a guide for because I don't do them everyday so the muscle memory never has a chance to develop.



I'm spending all my time making guides and jigs because I've seen the results of my freehand attempts at straight lines. I'd class them as helping rather than cheating.


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## deema (26 Aug 2020)

For me, when I learnt, I initially wanted to look at the blade from one side so I could see the blade better. The result was, that I always produced an angled cut! The trick I was shown, was to start the cut, first saw cut looking from the side so I could be sure I was cutting where I needed to be. Then to position my head so I looked down right on top of the saw. If you do this, you will make a far more perpendicular cut, If the work is horizontal, it will be a good cut, perfection needs some practice, and is never fully achieved. The other trick, is when starting the cut, to look at the reflection of the work in the blade. If the reflection looks to be a continuation of the stuff, the saw is at 90 degrees to the work and perpendicular. You need both to be true for the optical illusion. Just try it, tilt the saw and see the reflection move. You dont need a scribed line to cut square and true, saves a lot of time.
The last suggestion is when sawing use as much of the blade as possible. Long sawing cuts is what you want to strive for. We all tend to wobble about at the end / start of a saw stroke, so minimise the number of times it happens. It will also keep your saw sharp for longer.


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## MikeG. (26 Aug 2020)

It's easier, Deema, to start your cut across the top of the work, and when you get to the front edge a mm or 2 deep, drop the heel of the saw as far as you can and saw down the front edge to the bottom. You now have two tracks to follow, and the saw will want to stay in them. Just completw the triangle, connecting the top back edge and the bottom front edge, then go horizontal and proceed to the bottom. At no stage have you had to cut using "feel" or judgement about what is vertical.


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## Fitzroy (26 Aug 2020)

As a novice I build test joints and guides for most things. I’m pretty confident/capable cutting with a chisel but decent cuts off the saw elude me. I don’t see anything as cheating, it’s just another way of skinning the cat.

I feel I know my weaknesses and my plan is to seek some professional lessons, when time allows, as YouTube and personal practice are no longer seeing any improvement.
F.


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## deema (27 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> It's easier, Deema, to start your cut across the top of the work, and when you get to the front edge a mm or 2 deep, drop the heel of the saw as far as you can and saw down the front edge to the bottom. You now have two tracks to follow, and the saw will want to stay in them. Just completw the triangle, connecting the top back edge and the bottom front edge, then go horizontal and proceed to the bottom. At no stage have you had to cut using "feel" or judgement about what is vertical.



That’s the normal way of making a cut, but it is based on being able to cut straight to begin with. Watching two lines, I.e the two surfaces to try and keep the saw straight results in you looking from one side, this pulls the saw over towards the side your looking at, and you end up fighting to keep it straight resulting in a poor quality cut.
Your eye can detect the slightest out of plumb, so by looking directly down on the saw your brain automatically makes it vertical, as it likes things symetrical.

There are many ways to skin a cat, and no method if it works is wrong. I’ve found that anyone I’ve shown this ‘trick’ can saw straight / straighter immediately without hours building up muscle memory.

If you can stand and look directly down when using a mortice chisel, you can again achieve a vertical mortice cut. If you look from the side, you will tend to pull the chisel towards you. Another common problem is planing, where people hold the stuff in a vice and look from the side, pulling the plane towards them causing a chamfered cut (There are other things that affect it, I know)


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## SteL (27 Aug 2020)

Part of the build, later on, will require me to cut quite a few bearers and notches into the aprons and they won't be visible. That'll be an ideal opportunity to give those tips a go without the guide and see how I get on. Thanks.


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## SteL (27 Aug 2020)

The top rails are basically the same thing as the bottom to cut. By the time I got to them I was feeling better about cutting out those dovetail bits. The next big job was to cut the joints into the legs. I couldn't believe the surprises that were in store for me there! The bottom rail leg joints were a joy and they basically went along similar to Richard McGuire's video (only in slow motion).







Things were going so well I had time to take moody photos...






I was flying through the legs and I started wondering why the videos have you putting so many relief cuts in before splitting...






I found out...






A sneaky knot inside the wood. I didn't even know that was possible. Aren't knots just branches or am I making that up? There was no obvious visible sign that was going to be there. You can see where I've hit it and it has split right down towards my line. At the time I wasn't 100% sure if it had gone below or not. Without that relief cut (if that's the right term) I'm sure it would have gone right down past my line. That was my confidence set back a bit!

At least this knot had the decency to show itself...











The worst one of the lot was this mess...







The wood was sticky with what I assume was sap. I was having to clean and sharpen my chisel every few strokes. That set me back quite a bit, but eventually, out of pitty it gave up and I got it finished.






After much debate, I took the plunge and bought a low angle block plane to help with these bits of the build. I don't want to get caught up in buying every type of plane out there because I have that type of compulsive personality. I'm glad I did, though and I think the plane is the most well-made thing I own! Note to self: No more buying planes.

What that did lead to, though - similar to the old lady who swallowed a fly - is me buying another plane! After using the block plane I found myself using a chisel to get into the shoulder where the block plane couldn't reach. Inevitably I'd go too far with the chisel and be chasing my tail. So I bought a shoulder plane. I could have done with it for the rails but I still have some joinery it might help with as well as getting into the bits the block plane can't reach.






That's it, no more planes!

They turned out okay in the end.






I can't report any major cockups for the legs apart from the one I've already said about not squaring them. I was considering having a go at splitting in one go (without relief cuts) and that would have been a massive cockup to report!


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## NickM (27 Aug 2020)

This is looking great. I started out in this hobby at the start of this year and making the workbench is a perfect starting project because you can learn a great deal and end up with the most useful part of the workshop you will ever own.


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## Orraloon (28 Aug 2020)

This is coming along great. Problem solving, buying tools as required for the job and with good pictures and explanations. Shaping up to be better than my first bench and to be honest my second.
Regards
John


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## MikeG. (28 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> View attachment 90952
> 
> 
> I found out...
> ...



Great progress so far, and you're clearly learning a lot in the process.

Next time (!!  ), I'm sure you'll take great care to set out your material such that you cut joints in a knot-free part of the wood. Anyone walking into my workshop when I am tackling a new job and a pile of wood will more than likely see me with a rubber in my hand, rubbing out marks. Or a piece of chalk. Picking and choosing which piece is going to be made out of which board is a frustrating but critical element of the construction process, and can take quite some time. Your reward, though, is not having to cut joints through horrible knots like the ones you've shown (I'd have sawn at least a couple of those, rather than chiseling, BTW), and not having shakes or other blemishes on show faces. This applies to absolutely any- and everything you make.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

NickM said:


> This is looking great. I started out in this hobby at the start of this year and making the workbench is a perfect starting project because you can learn a great deal and end up with the most useful part of the workshop you will ever own.



Thanks, Nick. Agreed. I started it this year as well and initially, I had all kinds of ideas that I wanted to build but soon realised a B&Q picnic bench was totally inadequate for work holding! I thought about buying a workbench but the ones in my price range looked something like Fisher-Price's "My First Workbench". I did put a couple of bids in on eBay for some old benches but they ended up going beyond what I was willing to pay.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

Orraloon said:


> This is coming along great. Problem solving, buying tools as required for the job and with good pictures and explanations. Shaping up to be better than my first bench and to be honest my second.
> Regards
> John


Thanks. I am at the nieve stage at the moment of telling myself that this will be my first and only bench. I've read all the bench builds on here and see that it is the second or third attempt that you might end up keeping. If I let myself think that this is basically a prototype I know I'll end up getting sloppy and rushing. It is one of the reasons I'm holding off choosing a vice at the moment. I'll see how it turns out and scale the quality of the vice accordingly.


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## MikeG. (28 Aug 2020)

I'd snaffle the first 52-1/2 you see. You can always remove it from your fist bench and put it on your second. Having said that, I am using an adapted school bench, which I've had for 40 years, and there is no reason to change it. It's nothing special, but it's solid. Really, that's all you need in a bench.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> Great progress so far, and you're clearly learning a lot in the process.
> 
> Next time (!!  ), I'm sure you'll take great care to set out your material such that you cut joints in a knot-free part of the wood. Anyone walking into my workshop when I am tackling a new job and a pile of wood will more than likely see me with a rubber in my hand, rubbing out marks. Or a piece of chalk. Picking and choosing which piece is going to be made out of which board is a frustrating but critical element of the construction process, and can take quite some time. Your reward, though, is not having to cut joints through horrible knots like the ones you've shown (I'd have sawn at least a couple of those, rather than chiseling, BTW), and not having shakes or other blemishes on show faces. This applies to absolutely any- and everything you make.



Thanks, Mike. Ha, the dreaded next time! Don't burst my bubble at this stage. I'm telling myself this is the bench I'll keep forever against all the odds and experience of everyone else, despite my complete lack of skill, somehow it'll turn out alright on the night. I read someone doing this bench build where all was going well until the wood started moving about and they decided to use bolts through the joints. I'm just waiting for that issue where I can tell myself "Well you always knew this wasn't going to be the one".

You are right, though. I was focusing on getting knots and ugly bits out of view. I didn't really pay attention to where the joints would land. I was a bit disappointed with the wood really. The 9x2 is full of cracks, shakes, knots - you name it. That's going to be fun when I get to use that!

Being new it's hard to think too far ahead. When cutting those joints I didn't really worry about the knots until I hit them. There are too many other things going through my head like is this sharp, the right way up, are my hands out the way of this chisel... Ignorance is bliss. If I noticed the knot I don't think I would have thought to use the saw. Would I saw just off the gauge line and then use the chisel? Try just split the gauge line? Come off the gauge line and then use the block plane? That's too many unknowns for me!


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I'd snaffle the first 52-1/2 you see. You can always remove it from your fist bench and put it on your second. Having said that, I am using an adapted school bench, which I've had for 40 years, and there is no reason to change it. It's nothing special, but it's solid. Really, that's all you need in a bench.


That is exactly what I'm thinking. If the bench turns out pants I'll use a removable vice on it. If I'm happy with it I might go the whole hog and build the vice with a nice wooden screw.


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## MikeG. (28 Aug 2020)

Sawing the tenon.......I'd have tried to get it right off the saw, and make any adjustments necessary on the other piece of wood. Planing and chiseling huge hard knots like those is just a nightmare.


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## MikeG. (28 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> That is exactly what I'm thinking. If the bench turns out pants I'll use a removable vice on it. If I'm happy with it I might go the whole hog and build the vice with a nice wooden screw.



 In my view (and others vary, I know), but a 52-1/2 or similar IS the whole hog, and wooden screw things are just a gimmick.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> Sawing the tenon.......I'd have tried to get it right off the saw, and make any adjustments necessary on the other piece of wood. Planing and chiseling huge had knots like those is just a nightmare.



Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. My ability with the saw would probably be called into question there, though! I will agree with the nightmare, my hands were killing me after it!


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

MikeG. said:


> In my view (and others vary, I know), but a 52-1/2 or similar IS the whole hog, and wooden screw things are just a gimmick.



I've read that on here and a few other places and I'm sure that is true. I know this is not what a workbench is about... but ... it is the aesthetics of the big wooden vice. I've looked through lots of these builds and the vice always looks too small for the bench. If I do go down that route I'm sure I'll regret the repetitive strain injury from opening and closing it!


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## clogs (28 Aug 2020)

SteL, 
I like what uve done so far......
my bench has to work both steel and wood......it has an 8mm steel top plate but gets a plywood sheet when needed.....
the only way I move it around is with a forklift.....hahaha....
Just an idea about ur measureing......when I worked in the states we used a thing called a "story stick".....
u only mark it up once.....then the blury lines on a tape don't matter....u just work to the line on the stick.....
Most kitchens over there were custom made (Euro style kitchen are there now tho) and all they used were story sticks....
perhaps look it up on line and for ur next project try it out.....the do work...promice......

I know most on here don't like the way Americans work but I learnt a lot in 5 years....
AND still using that info now.....I'm very gratefull for the privilage of working there....
great memories.....

When I went there one time prob 40 years ago they were useing drill-drivers that had a magnetic bit that would hold a No 12 x 6'' steel screw horizontally.......we still have a lot to learn from them BUT NOT DADO's....hahaha....


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> . I've looked through lots of these builds and the vice always looks too small for the bench. If I do go down that route I'm sure I'll regret the repetitive strain injury from opening and closing it!


Get yourself a 53 instead of a 52 1/2, then. 
(I've just paid £35 for a nice 52 1/2 Woden to go on a bench I haven't built yet for a shed I haven't yet got P.P for.  )


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## AJB Temple (28 Aug 2020)

I use a quick release 53. It is brilliant. I also have a couple of large quick release Record metalworking vices. One is bolted to a piece of ply with a protuberance at the bottom so I can use it in a wood vice when needed. 

Frank - your story stick is used here too and is usually called a rod. Used for repetitious measuring.


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Aug 2020)

Yes. I have a 53e - nothing better.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

frank horton said:


> SteL,
> I like what uve done so far......
> my bench has to work both steel and wood......it has an 8mm steel top plate but gets a plywood sheet when needed.....
> the only way I move it around is with a forklift.....hahaha....
> ...



Thanks, Frank. I've just watched a Youtube clip on Story Sticks. Good idea to make marking out easier to see for me. My dad is 64 and doesn't need glasses, don't know where I went wrong. I do know our milkman wears enormously thick glasses, though!


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## thetyreman (28 Aug 2020)

that's looking really good, now you'll understand from now on why not to cut joints where there are knots, it's a good idea to avoid that in future! best of luck and keep going.


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

Phil Pascoe said:


> Get yourself a 53 instead of a 52 1/2, then.
> (I've just paid £35 for a nice 52 1/2 Woden to go on a bench I haven't built yet for a shed I haven't yet got P.P for.  )



Ha. You wouldn't have a cigarette for my light would you?


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## SteL (28 Aug 2020)

I'll have a mooch on the Internet at them - there's a day gone.


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## clogs (28 Aug 2020)

AJB.....
thanks for that info......never did much training in the UK......
have wandering shoes......hahaha....
I still use the story stick / rod method even now.....so easy even on smaller jobs....


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## Phil Pascoe (28 Aug 2020)

SteL said:


> I'll have a mooch on the Internet at them - there's a day gone.


Watch Scumtree and Faceslap marketplace - the drawback to buying on line is the P&P will cost nearly as much as the vice.


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## SteL (2 Sep 2020)

Right, now the trestles are done I'm up to the diagonal brace from the leg into the apron. This ended up a whole host of cockups that I'm still having sleepless nights over.

Here's the end result so you know what I'm talking about...







The first bit all went fine. Just cutting a lap joint with the shoulder at 45 degrees. The tricky (and totally optional bit) was to cut in the dovetail bit into the angled lap joint. I briefly contemplated making a guide but it seemed overkill for one cut and after blitzing through the lap joint what could possibly go wrong!

As soon as I started the cut I could see I'd started at the wrong angle. I decided to plough on regardless because trying to rectify it would have looked even worse I suppose.

You can see the cut has altered the 45-degree angle of the lap joint behind...

What a mess!







After scratching my head for a while I decided the only thing that would tidy this up (other than starting again) was to change the whole angle of the joint to match my cockup dovetail angle. I hadn't marked the reciprocal joint into the leg yet so it was still possible. Without doing this there would be a big gap visible near that dovetail shape.

So that's what I did. You can see how far off 45 degrees it ended up...






My new shoulder plane came in very handy here. The diagonal is now not going to be at 45 degrees and I'll have to cut the brace into the apron at this new angle but I'll worry about that later!







This job hadn't finished giving me grief yet, though. At some point in time, a little chip came out of the joint. That was time to call it a day! It is nice and tight and doing its job, it's just a bit ugly compared to the other joints.






This small part of the overall job ended up taking ages because of that one misplaced 10-second cut!

I've had a think on how I'd do this differently and maybe I could have made the cut from behind and used the existing 45-degree shoulder as a guide. I have no idea if that would be better or that would cause the front to look a bit messy. Maybe I should have made the guide to get the cut spot on or not bothered with the dovetail detail at all!

On the videos, Richard picks up the tenon saw and just cuts the angle without a second thought. Maybe it is just something that comes with practice! One thing I'm kicking myself over is I should have said to myself... if I'm going to get this cut wrong, get it wrong the right way. If I got the angle wrong the other way it wouldn't have touched the shoulder of the lap joint behind. I could have then corrected the joint quickly with a chisel.


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## thetyreman (2 Sep 2020)

the chip can easily be repaired, you can splice a piece in if it really bothers you, let it set and re-cut to the line, it's good practise as well, splits like this are more common around areas where it's close to a knot, sometimes you get reversing grain and hard/soft spots, it's no big deal, don't get too worked up about it, I think you're doing a very good job, remember this is only a workbench, the joint looks very tight to me.


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## MusicMan (2 Sep 2020)

That looks fine. We all make mistakes, fewer as we gain experience, and how we deal with them is important. You have dealt with it very well, and remember that nobody will know from looking at the joint what you has intended! And wood gets chipped or damaged from time to time.


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## MikeG. (2 Sep 2020)

I'm slightly curious as to why you were setting this part of the joint out with a square. I think I might have clamped the brace in place, with it's dovetail half-lap made, and just marked out around it with a knife.


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## Cabinetman (3 Sep 2020)

Hi Stel, I think you’re doing a really good job with those joints, and as you said it’s really good practice and experience. I have always used story sticks but never knew what they were called ha ha. I find the best ones are the wooden slats from a dismantled Venetian blind about an inch across and three mil thick and white, amazing how useful they are. Which reminds me of what I keep them in, really thick cardboard tube, 10 mil thick walls about a 5 inch diameter from a carpet shop, they throw them away, I use them for all sorts of odds and ends in my workshop. Ian S


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## MikeG. (3 Sep 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> ........... I have always used story sticks but never knew what they were called ha ha.......



Rods. They're called rods. One of our former colonies calls them story sticks, but they're wrong, as usual.


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## SteL (3 Sep 2020)

thetyreman said:


> the chip can easily be repaired, you can splice a piece in if it really bothers you, let it set and re-cut to the line, it's good practise as well, splits like this are more common around areas where it's close to a knot, sometimes you get reversing grain and hard/soft spots, it's no big deal, don't get too worked up about it, I think you're doing a very good job, remember this is only a workbench, the joint looks very tight to me.


Thanks. Someone said to use matching wood filler or glue with sanding dust mixed in. I didn't consider splicing a piece in. I'll have to do some research on how to do it now!


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## SteL (3 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I'm slightly curious as to why you were setting this part of the joint out with a square. I think I might have clamped the brace in place, with it's dovetail half-lap made, and just marked out around it with a knife.



Hi MikeG, I was just using the square (set at 45 degrees) to illustrate how far off 45 degrees I actually was, I didn't use it to set out the joint. That's exactly how I did mark it - by clamping it and marking around the butchered joint!


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## thetyreman (3 Sep 2020)

SteL said:


> Thanks. Someone said to use matching wood filler or glue with sanding dust mixed in. I didn't consider splicing a piece in. I'll have to do some research on how to do it now!



hi, all you do is glue in a block of wood ideally with matching grain colour and grain, and cut out the damaged area, you want to try and make it look as invisible as possible, it can all be done with chisels carefully and a small saw....

Before doing it though try using an iron and kitchen towel that's wet/damp, if that doesn't get rid of it you can splice in a piece. the other option is to just leave it alone and leave it as it is.


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## MusicMan (3 Sep 2020)

SteL said:


> Thanks. Someone said to use matching wood filler or glue with sanding dust mixed in. I didn't consider splicing a piece in. I'll have to do some research on how to do it now!


Wood filler is OK but doesn't absorb stains etc. Saw dust in glue is OK mechanically but much darker than the original. To spllce a piece in, chisel out the hole till it is an easy shape, eg triangular, make by hand a piece that fits in (aligning the grain on the two parts) then glue it in (hold down with tape if a cramp is not practical) then plane or pare off the outer parts to match the outside.

You might want to leave it till you've used the bench for a few months to see if this is worth while, noting the battering it will have had in the meantime!


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## MikeG. (3 Sep 2020)

It's a bench, Stel. The odd ding here and there is irrelevant. Leave it as it is.


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## billw (3 Sep 2020)

This is looking great. I am looking forward to the day I can take on a project this size.


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## SteL (3 Sep 2020)

I was putting this off but I had to grasp the nettle sooner or later and glue and nail these trestles together. I wanted to use rustic looking nails so bought some cut clasp nails. All I could envision was splits forming on my rails instantly turning them into firewood. I was so concerned I built a replica joint and literally tried to cause splitting by going too close to the edges, two nails along the same line on the grain but it didn't happen at all on the test joints. So slightly more confident I carried on...






The bottom rails nailed without a hitch. If I was choosing the nails again I wouldn't go for that shape head. After knocking them below the surface, the hole was a bit ugly. They wouldn't have looked as bad if I hadn't knocked them in so far. I was just paranoid about hitting them with my plane blade.

I used the same nails for the top rails but got a couple of tiny splits I think they were a bit too wide and the top rail isn't fully housed into the leg so has less support. I swapped over to using some oval wire nails I found after rummaging.







If I was starting again I'd just use those nails instead. Much better...






I added chamfers on the edges and then tidied them up a bit with my plane. It felt great inspecting them afterwards like the bench was actually coming together. The nailing bit also felt like the last bit that could go massively pearshaped for the trestles. To get that far and destroy them with a misplaced hammer stroke would have been hard to take!

I couldn't believe how hard I found trimming the ends of the rails. On the video series, Richard has them off no problem with very little effort. I was looking forward to that bit because it looked really satisfying to do with the chisel. I thought I'd got to the point where I could get things sharp but there's obviously another level of sharpness beyond where I'm up to! I tried reducing the secondary bevel right down from 30 degrees to just over 25 and tried without a secondary bevel. It was still a lot of effort to trim that end grain. I eventually just roughly got it down and finished it with the plane.

Finally, the bearers were nailed on to take the top planks






Trestles all done. 

The only cockups to report were a couple of splits using the cut clasp nails on one of the top rails. I'm not too disappointed, though. The bits that split were tiny and they will be housed tightly within the apron joint. Also, there's plenty of glue on there to keep it together! I'd definitely use the oval wire nails if I started again. Or maybe dowl. That's something I might consider for the rest of the bench.


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## SteL (3 Sep 2020)

billw said:


> This is looking great. I am looking forward to the day I can take on a project this size.


Thanks. Until it is finished I won't know if I can take on a project this size! This is literally the first proper thing I've attempted. That's probably why I'm being overly precious with little chips etc! As others have said it's just a workbench that's going to get battered anyway. Are you limited on space to build something large?


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## billw (3 Sep 2020)

SteL said:


> Thanks. Until it is finished I won't know if I can take on a project this size! This is literally the first proper thing I've attempted. That's probably why I'm being overly precious with little chips etc! As others have said it's just a workbench that's going to get battered anyway. Are you limited on space to build something large?



Yeah space is a bit precious at the moment, but I have a bench already - not a great one admittedly - and longer term I think I'll be making things that don't require huge amounts of room, or large machinery. I'm already in the mindset of thinking about how to design with components that have pretty small widths and thicknesses!


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## SteL (7 Sep 2020)

Right onto the aprons now. Here I said I'd have a go at ditching the guides when sawing the shoulders. I chickened out! Instead, I did the shoulders with the guide and the relief cuts were used as practice. Using the tips here and elsewhere I can report I'm still at 50/50 on getting it straight. Here's my first attempt...







Second attempt...






That's the way it continued for all the cuts - Mr 50/50!






The notches for the legs were just bigger versions of the joints on the legs...






I did make a slight cockup on the first attempt at this joint. I was trying to get the angle to match the angle on the leg exactly when it doesn't really matter as they're going to be set apart a bit to allow for expansion of the apron. Anyway, that sent me down a path where I ended up having to come down a couple mm and reshape the slope. The apron will sit a couple of mm lower on that leg now, but they're oversized so I can sort that when levelling them on top. Luckily it was the back apron as well!

It was a workout trying to position the legs for marking...






I was very pleased when I did my first dry fit that everything lined up and the thing is solid without anything actually holding it together. In fact, it took some effort to get it back apart.






You can see the back right apron joint is almost level with the trestle - definitely not part of the plan. That's because I was faffing around with the angle too much as I've already said. Those aprons will be planed to be level with the trestle eventually so I'm just glad it didn't end up any further down.






I then finished off the rest of the notches in the aprons






The bearer notches were a bit of work - all 8 of them. I timed myself doing the second to last one and it took me 22 minutes from marking to finish. The first ones would have been easily 30 minutes and a couple of them even longer. Being a beginner, I'm not interested in how quickly I'm going but when I'm working on this bench hours seem to disappear so I just wanted to account for at least some of them!











You can see my invisible steel-capped safety flip-flops there - very appropriate for working with chisels and heavy wood.

I somehow made one of the bearer notches too deep. I thought to myself, so long as that isn't near the corner where the apron sits low down (the cockup mentioned before) I should be alright because the aprons will be getting planed down anyway. Surely the woodworking gods wouldn't allow me to make two cockups in exactly the same place. Of course, it was in the same place. So I had to put a little insert in on that one...






So two cockups combined to give me a bit of a headache but nothing major. I hope as I get more experienced to see these issues coming and basically think ahead more!

The other thing that I hope to improve on is positioning and holding the work. You wouldn't believe the ways I tried to position the legs and aprons together so I could mark them up. WIth them being heavy and big I had a nightmare in a smallish shed. I went back and watched the video on how Richard positions them and it's obvious when you see it - I was like spiderman climbing all over the place!


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## MikeG. (7 Sep 2020)

I tell you what, you're doing some pretty decent joinery there. That's going to be a really strong bench when it's done.

Planing the aprons down is a step I'd have tried to avoid, I reckon, because you've now got to decide on a final line. How you decide where that should be, and how you mark it all around the bench, I'm really not too sure about. Maybe you'll just have to stand it on a flat surface, find the low point, and then take that height around the aprons with pinch sticks, or a batten cut to length.


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## SteL (8 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> I tell you what, you're doing some pretty decent joinery there. That's going to be a really strong bench when it's done.
> 
> Planing the aprons down is a step I'd have tried to avoid, I reckon, because you've now got to decide on a final line. How you decide where that should be, and how you mark it all around the bench, I'm really not too sure about. Maybe you'll just have to stand it on a flat surface, find the low point, and then take that height around the aprons with pinch sticks, or a batten cut to length.



Thanks, MikeG. I'm pleased how it is turning out so far. Fingers crossed it stays that way! I've been worrying about flattening the aprons down. I'm mooching about the place looking for a flat even surface to use. I've been eyeing up the kitchen floor to do it on but I'll have to get that past the boss first! I know the trestles are both the exact same height as each other, so I just need to uniformly take the aprons down to be level with them while on a flat level surface. That's going to be easy near to the trestles but harder in the middle. I'll have to rewatch the video on this bit because I recall wedges being used to remove twist from the bench before assembly as well. 

I've just had a look at pinch sticks. Thinking about it, that would definitely help gauge the size all around. I think I'll cut a batten for it. Thanks for the tip.

On an unpopular note, I've ordered a big wooden screw and nut for the vice. It'll give me a chance to have a go at some mortise and tenon joints at least! I'm just waiting for that to arrive now so as I can lay it out on the front apron before it is glued and nailed.


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## samhay (8 Sep 2020)

Looking good. I pinched, some of Richard's design elements for my bench. 

You can use wedges to prop up a corner to get some/most of the wind out. This will save some time planeing the aprons, but means you may well have to trim or shim the legs when you're done. If you have a little extra height to play with, that's no big deal. Planeing the aprons is not difficult either, but you'll need long enough winding sticks to span front-to-back.


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## samhay (8 Sep 2020)

p.s. where did you find the wooden screw?


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## Trainee neophyte (8 Sep 2020)

SteL said:


> You can see my invisible steel-capped safety flip-flops there - very appropriate for working with chisels and heavy wood.


I have a pair just like those - pretty soon I am going to lose a toe, and then everyone will say "I toed you so". Never have an jury that lends itself to puns - your just asking for abuse.


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## SteL (8 Sep 2020)

samhay said:


> Looking good. I pinched, some of Richard's design elements for my bench.
> 
> You can use wedges to prop up a corner to get some/most of the wind out. This will save some time planeing the aprons, but means you may well have to trim or shim the legs when you're done. If you have a little extra height to play with, that's no big deal. Planeing the aprons is not difficult either, but you'll need long enough winding sticks to span front-to-back.



Thanks. That's true, the winding sticks I have are only 18" so I might have to look up how to make some. I'm just following everything to the letter to hopefully avoid major unforeseen cockups! I'm nowhere near the stage where I can start going off script.



samhay said:


> p.s. where did you find the wooden screw?



Someone on here pointed out Dictum (Germany) sell them. I could only find them in the US so that saved on delivery and duty. Still very expensive, though!


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## MikeG. (8 Sep 2020)

Don't use winding sticks along the length as described above. They're for the ends only. If they are parallel at either end of the bench, then all you need is a straight line between them.......so some sort of straight edge, or just sight along the benchtop.


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## samhay (8 Sep 2020)

>Don't use winding sticks along the length as described above.
Agreed, and I think we're saying the same thing - you need winding sticks that can run perpendicular to the apron and can span from front to back. If this bench is ~24" deep then the 18" ones you currently have won't work. You don't need anything fancy though and you should be able to make do with offcuts. It only has to be flat and true enough to get the planks to sit nicely on the top of the apron without gaps (assuming the top planks are reasonably flat).

The wooden screws look great, but also cost more than my bench. Are you planning on doing the old school face vice like this?


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## SteL (9 Sep 2020)

samhay said:


> >Don't use winding sticks along the length as described above.
> Agreed, and I think we're saying the same thing - you need winding sticks that can run perpendicular to the apron and can span from front to back. If this bench is ~24" deep then the 18" ones you currently have won't work. You don't need anything fancy though and you should be able to make do with offcuts. It only has to be flat and true enough to get the planks to sit nicely on the top of the apron without gaps (assuming the top planks are reasonably flat).
> 
> The wooden screws look great, but also cost more than my bench. Are you planning on doing the old school face vice like this?



Thanks, I've got some long offcuts I'll cut in half and plane together. That's the one! My bench is just over half the length of that beast. If it turns out over half as good I'll be happy! 

I know, all the timber for the bench cost about £150 so the vice screw will be more expensive than all the other parts put together!


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## SteL (22 Sep 2020)

After waiting for my vice screw & nut to finally arrive, I set to putting a whopping great hole in the apron. I did a few test runs of this on scrap first and it ended up not being as bad as I thought it would be to get through. I didn't understand what Richard meant on the video by saying if you come in from both sides you'll end up with a bit in the middle that the drill can't reach. I thought I'd just sail right through but once there's no material for the screw of the bit to pull on, that's the end of your hole. I was dubious about the solution as well... knocking it out with a hammer, but it worked nicely after a clean up with a knife.






Next, chop another big hole for the vice guide. This took me a while, to be honest. I was tempted to get the drill out but I persevered with the chisel. Maybe a proper mortice chisel would have helped but I haven't got one and I'm trying not to keep buying tools!






Then a notch for the vice screw to sit in - that knot made life pretty difficult. I swapped from just using a chisel to a Record router plane I've had knocking about. I don't use it because I can't get the hang of sharpening the irons for it and it feels like it takes forever lowering the iron by tiny amounts.






Oh, here are the screw and nut...






very nice






No massive cockups. In fact, I had a bit of good luck. The diagram for where to place the nut has it about 1/2" higher than mine. Because of my ugly knot, I decided it was worth putting it just below it (although it was still lurking underneath anyway). It was only later on when I was patting myself on the back I remembered those aprons are oversized. Then I remembered Richard said in the video to remember to take that into account when measuring. When I started to work out the scale of the problem I realised that the knot had saved my bacon by making me put the nut lower.

Next, I will be getting them aprons nailed and glued. It will start to look like a bench then (hopefully).


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## SteL (23 Sep 2020)

Right onto the glueing and hammering. I watched a David Charlesworth video a couple of weeks ago where he referred to this stage as the point where within a few minutes you can ruin days of work (something along those lines anyway!) With those words of encouragement, I started to think about getting those aprons nailed and glued on. My plan was to do this in the kitchen where it is flat until someone asked the obvious question of how will I carry it back out. I decided to do another dry fit to see how heavy it was.

I can't remember if I've already mentioned this but I used flooring straps for the dry fittings. I only own 4 x 30cm clamps and there aren't many easy clamping opportunities around the bench. They've been a lifesaver and will come in handy for the glue up.






Anyway, the bench is just about liftable without the top on if you stand inside it and sort of deadlift it right in the middle. As I'm only 5ft 7, that only lifts the bench about 3 inches off the ground so there's no chance of me moving it on my own and I wanted to crack on.

I just fount the most level area I could and got on with it. Beforehand I gave the trestles a quick tart up with my plane and chamfered the edges






Like a fool, I'd bought 5-inch oval wire nails for this job. My calculation was 4-inch leg plus a 2-inch apron. I was forgetting that the leg and apron are like a double joint fitting into each other. I'm just glad I held one of the nails up to the leg before I'd started glueing. 

Whenever I've used adhesives in the past I know I start rushing and making mistakes that lead to more mistakes. It's like someone starts the countdown clock, the music starts and I'm fumbling to form a four-letter word from the letters. I was determined to be calm and methodical and try to anticipate those mistakes before the glue goes on and the sweat comes out! So cockup number 1 was fixable. I still had a load of those smaller cut nails. I didn't want to use them after they caused a split in one of the top rails, but they were the only alternative to hand.

And so let the panic commence!

I was so focused on the glue that I didn't remember to take any photos at this point! I will say that true to form I did start to mess about and panic. I also learned that I'm a messy gluer-upper! I thought you can't have too much, so slap it in there. I was having to clean up all over the place and what did I reach for? An oily rag! So that was even more of a mess. So cockup number 2 - not having the things I'm going to need to hand. I finally found some clean rags to continue with.

So these images are from when the red mist descended...






I didn't really perceive hammering as a skill but I do now. I was trying to be as careful as possible getting those nails in but as you can see I left my hammer mark on the 3rd nail down on the leg, and for some unknown reason my hammer was attracted to a spot in the centre of the 4 nails on the diagonal brace. It is going to need a good cleanup that now! I think it was probably fatigue that led to these misplaced blows. Those cut nails didn't just fly in easy at all. You could hear the pitch of them changing as they got tighter in and as they got closer in they got harder to move.

One thing I didn't aticipate was hitting the nails that are already in the trestles behind. You wouldn't think you would be that unlucky but that happned on two of the nails for me. I had to take them out and change their angle. I should've roughly checked they weren't aligned before hammering.






I initially decided not to put nails into the diagonal brace, then I thought I'd have a go at clinching nails (I've not tried it before) but I wish I never started it. I was using nails that didn't like the idea of bending so easy. It also added those few out of place hammer blows on the apron. I should've quit while I was ahead!

Next was to plane the aprons down to be level with the trestles. I didn't end up using the pinch stick/baton idea because the floor wasn't a good reference now. Because I know the trestle joints were marked off each other, so long as the joints are tight, the thing should be level. I then used the straightest length I had to span the trestles and I butted it up against the inside of the apron for a rough guideline, then just a square to check the level.

I hacked off most of it with a #4 with a massive camber on, then went to a #5 1/2 - oh, I know I said I wasn't going to buy any more planes... but... in anticipation of this step I bought an old #7 to finish it. I can't help myself! That's the last one now.







It's finally starting to look like a bench. It is rock solid even without the top and the only things I'm not happy with so far are cosmetic. I've never built a piece of furniture so when I do in the future I'm going to have to be a hell of a lot more delicate!






You can see above the amount of glue residue left on the diagonal brace. That's from where I nearly dropped the apron in panic mode with corporal Jones screaming in the background. As I caught it, all the glue in the notch pressed on the diagonal brace. I wiped it with a rag but it still left a slight residue. I had to crack on becuase at that time I had glue sitting in all the other notches waiting for their new home. I'm not sure on the best way to clean that up now. Sandpaper? Maybe blockplane?

Next step will be to get all the bearers in and then nail the planked top on. I can already anticipate a problem here, though. You can see how much of a twist there is in that middle board above. I'm confident it'll flatten when nailed, I just don't know how I'm going to plane its edges straight and test fit it next to the other planks to visually check the small gap is nice and even between them. There's no obvious way I can think to clamp it down. I can't take that much twist out with a plane or there will be nothing left of the board. Any suggestions would be appreciated!


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## AndyT (23 Sep 2020)

I'd just like to say well done and thanks as well for writing up the whole experience so clearly and frankly. I'm sure it will be really useful for anyone else wanting to build a bench like this. It's good to see mention of the sort of thing that isn't always obvious - like the weight of a complete assembly or the effect of a bit of panic. 

As for your twisted board - I've no idea if this is right, but if I was in your shoes and couldn't replace it with a straighter piece, this is what I would do. I'd get someone else to hold one end while I pressed down on the other, to get a feel for how strong the twisting force is. If it relaxed into place fairly easily, I'd just fit it and make good. But although that wood work on a thin floor board it might not work here. If it didn't, I'd try fixing one end flat but on the other I would put a thin wedge of wood onto the top of the supporting member, not as thick all of the twist but maybe half of it, so that the board would sit down onto it without too much forcing. After it was fixed, I'd then plane the bump off - but I would only be removing half as much wood compared to making it flat on both sides. 
As for getting the width even, can you just start at the front and add a board at a time? If so, then any surplus width will be an overhang at the back and can be planed off afterwards, or after a trial fit.


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## thetyreman (23 Sep 2020)

looks really good I like your work rate and level of progress,

my experience with twist is that it's better to use a new board than try and get it to untwist especially with thicker stock like this. I had a similar thing happen to me during my workbench build, tried to salvage it and it simply wouldn't stop twisting so just used a new piece, if you put in the twisted board it can distort the bench slightly by trying to pull it.


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## SteL (23 Sep 2020)

Thanks, AndyT & thetyreman. The twist is too strong to get out with hand pressure, but I've just got it out with clamps on either end. I think I'll take both of your advice and get a new length for it. I could even get one hardwood plank to go as the front board where most of the work will be and put the front one to the middle. Not sure that would look great but it'd be hardwearing. I might research a hardwood that wouldn't look totally different from the pine if that is possible. I've never tried to do anything with hardwood, though and I've still got to put a big hole in the front plank for the planing stop. At least the timber yard might be open to the public now so I can choose my own. I'll have a ponder! Thanks for the advice.


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## MusicMan (23 Sep 2020)

A pale hardwood like beech, maple or London plane?


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## Cabinetman (24 Sep 2020)

Hi SteL, most impressed, not sure really why you are using nails except that’s what probably other people have told you, but that’s not your fault. I like the way you defeat your problems, I always think that what makes a good woodworker is the way they can think ahead in an innovative way to solve the problems to get a great end result.
Now have a look at my post, it’s called something like " I think this should be required viewing for every woodworker " A really great woodworker showing how to hold timber down or against a bench using bench holdfasts, a strange thing that lifts out of the centre of the bench, and a strange angled stick on the front apron.
I know, gobbledygook but you watch it, I know you will be amazed. Happy woodworking Ian


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## Blaidd-Drwg (24 Sep 2020)

Really excellent write-ups on this build. I finished my English/Nicholson style bench about 6 months ago and the weight very quickly became an issue (before I had finished building it). So I got some casters that are foot activated (just a lever that you flip up or down) and I am able to move my workbench around without any trouble.

They were not cheap, but they have been worth every penny.


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## Phil Pascoe (24 Sep 2020)

I could just lift one end of mine - I got a three wheeled dolly from Lidl or Aldi and kicked it in under the lifted end then lifted the other end to move it. Easy. They're about £12 now iirc.


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## SteL (24 Sep 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> Hi SteL, most impressed, not sure really why you are using nails except that’s what probably other people have told you, but that’s not your fault. I like the way you defeat your problems, I always think that what makes a good woodworker is the way they can think ahead in an innovative way to solve the problems to get a great end result.
> Now have a look at my post, it’s called something like " I think this should be required viewing for every woodworker " A really great woodworker showing how to hold timber down or against a bench using bench holdfasts, a strange thing that lifts out of the centre of the bench, and a strange angled stick on the front apron.
> I know, gobbledygook but you watch it, I know you will be amazed. Happy woodworking Ian




Thanks, Ian. I read that post yesterday and gave it the thumbs up! I was amazed that you could hold things in that many different ways - and with no vice. I've mentioned this before, but as a beginner, trying to work out the best way to position and hold things is difficult (or I've found it difficult). I've had those trestles in some wayward positions trying to mark them up or plane them.

Agreed, hopefully, as I get more experienced I will see more problems in advance rather than stumbling through them!

I was going to use dowel rather than nails but I'm having a go at only using hand tools and when I thought about drilling all the holes by hand I broke out in a sweat!

On the subject of holdfasts... I've picked up a Record 145 with 2 collars and a Record 146 with one collar (just missing the bolts and nuts). When it comes to fitting them I'll probably be back asking for the best positioning on the bench.


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## SteL (24 Sep 2020)

Thanks, Blaidd-Drwg and Phil pascoe. Good idea - It'd be nice to get it outside on a nice day!


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## SteL (24 Sep 2020)

MusicMan said:


> A pale hardwood like beech, maple or London plane?



Thanks very much, MusicMan. I'll have a look at those. Species of wood is something I know absolutely nothing about!


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## MikeG. (24 Sep 2020)

You've two choices with the twisted board, I reckon. One is to replace it altogether, and the second is to make it the hind-most board, and plane it down. I'd almost certainly do the latter. Don't try and fight twist, because twist always wins. You'll find your board will introduce a twist to the whole of the bench if you were to wrestle it into position now with clamps.


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## thetyreman (24 Sep 2020)

why not go for redwood pine for the top? it's what I used for mine and it's been fine, no regrets, it still functions the same as a hardwood top and it's only going to get dings, dirt and dents in it anyway no matter how careful you are.


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## SteL (24 Sep 2020)

thetyreman said:


> why not go for redwood pine for the top? it's what I used for mine and it's been fine, no regrets, it still functions the same as a hardwood top and it's only going to get dings, dirt and dents in it anyway no matter how careful you are.



You're right. I've just looked at prices for hardwood and I think I'll be sticking with redwood pine!


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## SteL (24 Sep 2020)

MikeG. said:


> You've two choices with the twisted board, I reckon. One is to replace it altogether, and the second is to make it the hind-most board, and plane it down. I'd almost certainly do the latter. Don't try and fight twist, because twist always wins. You'll find your board will introduce a twist to the whole of the bench if you were to wrestle it into position now with clamps.


Thanks, MikeG. I suppose I have nothing to lose giving it a go with the plane. I'll see how thin it ends up. If it goes really thin I could use it as a tool well in the middle! I think I'll probably end up getting a new length, though.


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## MikeG. (24 Sep 2020)

If you do buy a new piece, you'll certainly be sighting it carefully before making your choice!


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## SteL (30 Sep 2020)

Right on with the worlds longest workbench build. I'm glad I started this thread, though. At least I can see that I began at the start of July - so that's 3 months so far! I would've said I'd been just over a month into the build if I was to guess. I did get held up for a bit waiting for my vice and I'm only able to crack on at weekends now. Even then that might just be a day or a half-day.

This was a quick job really - just cutting and installing the bearers, then flattening them ready for the top...








Not much went wrong here. Like before fatigue led to a couple of misplaced hammer blows! On all of this build so far I've found it useful to always start on the back where no one will see to get the hang of things first. On this occasion, it would have been better starting at the front while I could still move my arm!

I couldn't resist throwing the vice in and getting an idea of how it might end up...






Now I need to replace that twisted top board so that's going to hold me up. I'll have to find somewhere that is open on a weekend, lets you in the yard because of COVID-19 and a time I can be in for delivery (god knows when that will be). As you can see above, the twisted board flattens with the clamps but it does take some effort. I keep getting tempted to just use it so I can get on and get it finished!


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## SteL (12 Oct 2020)

Right, I finally had a spare weekend and replaced my twisted boards to get the top on. The only difficult part here was chopping out the square hole for the planing stop. I had a couple of practices doing the speedy method Richard shows on the video, but they didn't come out very neat for me. I eventually resorted back to the newbie slow method I used for the vice hole. It worked but took ages! I bought a Benchcrafted planing stop (see below) because I didn't fancy making my own - that is getting into a whole new murky world of metalwork. Also, I don't own any files. 






The hole is flush with one of the bearers for some extra strength...






So I then spent the rest of the day littering the top with nails. My thumb took a beating, especially when punching the nails down deep. I need a longer nail punch I think.

Using hide glue for the top was a right nightmare. It sent me into panic mode a few times. I had to keep dipping it in hot water just to get it out of the bottle. I won't look forward to using that stuff again.







Next will be onto flattening the top and flushing up the top to the front apron. Then having a go at smoothing the top and front apron. I'm dreading planing some of those knots!

Oh and I'm going to use some epoxy to waterproof the bottom of the legs. Sometimes rain comes in under the garage door and the legs have been getting a bit wet.






The only bits left then are assempling the vice and planing stop. It doesn't sound like much is left but at my rate or progress that will probably take me beyond Christmas!


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## SteL (26 Oct 2020)

Right, the home straight I think! For once I think I'm actually going to finish something I've started.

First I decided to finish the plaining stop, so I plained a piece down to size with a heavy camber on the iron...






That obviously caused lots of tearout...






So within a final couple of mm, I switched to a finer set plain






Still a bit of tearout, but it won't be seen anyway. My plaining technique is definitly improving. One thing I havent managed to avoid is taking more off towards the end of a board. I must be applying downward pressure as I reach the end of the board rather than just pushing the plane uniformly forward and off the end. At the moment I'm compensating for it by turning the board around but that's a pain going against the grain.

Anyway, I made that a nice tight fit in the bench...






Then drilled the holes for the Benchcrafted plaining stop/spike (whatever it is called)






Then that was done, but I didn't like the look of the stop being proud of the block, so I decided to put a notch in for it.

The first attempt at that was a total cockup...






That's the first time I've tried to chisel out end grain and it wasn't a pleasant experience! My second attempt turned out much better after resharpening and being more patiant...







I made a bit of a mess notching the teeth into the bench. I might just cut that bit square at some point...






Next, I cut the bench to length...






and then flattened the top going across the top with my #5 1/2






I was knackered after this and it took way longer than I expected. To my eye, the planks looked pretty level with each other to start with. As soon as the straight edge came out it was a never ending job going up and down it finding problems everywhere.


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## SteL (26 Oct 2020)

I gave the top a tidy up after planing across the grain and rounded off the sharp edges. I will give it a final flatten right at the end...






Next, with some much-needed help. was to flip the beast onto its top and then make and fit the running gear for the vice.
















Then while it's being moved about, get it onto its side and plane the top flush with the side and then square the side to the top.







Next was to make the face of the vice. This was a bit of a pain and it brought me back down to earth on where I'm up to and my skill level. I posted on here to get some help with this bit and got some great feedback and tips...









Help with a stubborn double through mortise and tenon


I've been building my first workbench using only hand tools and posting my progress here ... https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads/yet-another-english-style-workbench-build.124501/ I'm a complete beginner, but things have gone quite well up until building the face vice. This is my second...




www.ukworkshop.co.uk





Anyway, after choosing a piece I liked the look of, taking the twist out, flattening it and squaring it I went on to wreck it. On the video series, Richard says it should be a tighter than usual fit on the double mortise and tenon joint.  Having no experience, It's hard to reference what that means. In all fairness, he showed his going in with light taps. I already wasn't happy with mine because I had some small gaps on the front.

So out of frustration, and with mighty thor blows, I knocked it in and all of a sudden it just went in. I won. Pleased with my work I looked around it






As it was getting on I thought I'd just choose another front and prep it ready for marking and cutting the next day. That is what caused me to have so much trouble with the next attempt. After posting on here for help, the consensus seems to be that the timber may have moved. I should've prepped it then worked on it - not leave it overnight to move about. I'll try to remember that in future!

Anyway, the second attempt was much neater and I was happy enough...






the issue was when trying to hammer home the tenon. One side wouldn't go flush to the face. 







That's when I discovered the face may not be flat anymore...







and a great tip from Peter Sefton was to stick something through the mortise and test it for squareness. That's when I found one of the inside faces was out...






After fixing those issues and cleaning up the shoulders, it seemed close enough to have a go at doing a dry fit.


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## SteL (26 Oct 2020)

The vice went together great. I had to slightly adjust the running gear and it ran very smoothly. It also held nice and tight even though the guide bar isn't glued up yet.











The quality of that screw had me imagining the whole bench made out of maple - it'd be indestructible! 

The whole point in this thread was to help anyone looking to build the bench from the video series on The English Woodworker website. I found a similar thread on here that helped me avoid a couple of cockups. So at the end of the series, Richard says if he could change anything, he'd move the planing spike to the other side of the vice - basically at the end of the bench. So I did just that. Now I've already realised the large wooden hub on that vice screw is in the way of a nice smooth planing motion. If you're using a metal vice as most people seem to do, this wouldn't be a problem. I don't have a solution to this - just something to think about. Maybe I'd make the bench longer so the plaining stop was further away from the vice - maybe put it where Richard has his. My bench is only 7ft long, though. I'll probably drill a dog hole the other side of the vice and use that for smaller timber and use the planing stop for longer lengths- or just get used to moving around the vice.

Talking of dog holes, that was the next job... litter the top with holes. I did intend to do everything on this build by hand, but I have to admit I used an electric drill for this bit. After some deliberation, I decided on some holes 12 inches from the front and some along the back to hold a batten.

I nearly made the cockup to end all cockups by putting a hole right where the vice screw was. You can see where I've crossed it out and wrote the word no! on it...







I then got some help to put it onto its side again and drilled some 19mm dog holes into the front. And that's where I'm up to now!






I've ordered some dowl and jaw lining to glue up the vice front and get that finished, some epoxy to waterproof the feet, some boiled linseed oil and white spirit to finish it off. Not much more to go.


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## AndyT (26 Oct 2020)

Great thread. Real practical experience of a learner, taking on useful advice from forum members. 

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write this up. I'm sure you will soon have a really good bench and a much increased level of skill and confidence.


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## thetyreman (27 Oct 2020)

superb! seriously well done, you should be very proud of that bench.


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## SteL (28 Oct 2020)

thetyreman said:


> superb! seriously well done, you should be very proud of that bench.



Thanks. I'm very pleased with how it has turned out. I just want to get the last few bits finished, then I can't wait to get cracking on something new and put the bench to use. I think I'll go for something a bit smaller and lighter for the next project. Has anyone on here ever made a dovetailed box I wonder...


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## SteL (17 Nov 2020)

Well, the bench is finally finished now. Like a blank canvas waiting for me to fill full of hammer blows and saw marks!

I only had a few things to finish off...

1) Drawbore the vice runner tenon. I used a pre-made rod for that. The only issue I had was finding an auger bit the right size. That had me digging through a stash handed down from my grandad. It wasn't in the best of condition.






2) Next, I tipped the beast over again to apply epoxy to the feet.






3) then glued the crubber jaw lining onto the vice











4) Then 3 coats of BLO/Turps. I even did the underside (don't ask me why)! That left a nice finish, though...






All done!






I've since read the Anarchist's Workbench. I thought it was a bit stupid reading it after I've just finished the bench, but I enjoyed it and It didn't make me want to start over. Overall I'm very happy with the outcome and have learned quite a bit along the way thanks to the video series on the English Woodworker and from people on here. Thanks.

I'm almost through the Anarchist's Tool Chest book now and I think that will be the next project on the cards.

Cheers


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## AndyT (17 Nov 2020)

Brilliant! I'd be really pleased to have made that. I'm sure it will last you many happy years.


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## NickM (17 Nov 2020)

Looks great. Well done!


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## billw (17 Nov 2020)

SteL said:


> Thanks very much, MusicMan. I'll have a look at those. Species of wood is something I know absolutely nothing about!



There a book called Wood Identification and Use by Terry Porter that I would recommend!


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## billw (17 Nov 2020)

It’s a monster of a bench but it looks fantastic and that vice looks amazing! I hope it gets the use it deserves and post up your projects


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## thetyreman (17 Nov 2020)

that is an absolute beast of a bench, you should be proud of that, definitely a lifelong workbench, congratulations


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## Jameshow (17 Nov 2020)

Well done! 
I think I'm going to have to build myself a new bench!! 

Cheers James


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## Cabinetman (18 Nov 2020)

Really smashing bench, you obviously take pride in your work and have the patience to succeed – I sometimes think that patience is one of the most important thing a woodworker needs.
If you haven’t yet drilled all your dog holes for those rather nice bench holdfasts (Gramercy?), I read something that I thought was really good, and that was to wait until you want to hold something down and then drill a hole to do it with, some people drill regimented lines up and down their benches and never use 90% of them. Ian
Ps I think maybe you saw a YouTube video I recommended by Mike Siemens?


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## Orraloon (18 Nov 2020)

A great bench build ending in a great bench. I enjoyed watching this one.
Regards
John


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## clogs (18 Nov 2020)

nice bench but think I'd have fixed the top on from underneath.....or deep set screws.....
the nails don't look right and "nails" anyway.......
beside's an old bench will need the top planing down occaisionally......nails and planes ....ouch.....
I cant say much tho as my wood bench, 8x4, has a heavy steel frame with a thick plywood sheet for a top.....
I quite often place an old car on it for wood frame repairs.......
pract all my wood butchery is done on/with machines.......
have all the hand tools but cant be that bothered except for when making Ash body frames on antique cars n trucks....
guess nobody will talk to me now.....hahaha.....


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## acxlll (18 Nov 2020)

The idea is that since the bench will need planing down, the nails are well visible from the top. So less chance of surprises as would be in case if the top would be fixed from the bottom. If you need to plane the top, just check if the nails are set well below the surface and you are good to go.


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Thanks, @AndyT, @thetyreman, @Orraloon, @billw and @NickM



billw said:


> There a book called Wood Identification and Use by Terry Porter that I would recommend!



@billw - Thanks very much for the recommendation - that has just been ordered!


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Thanks, @clogs as @acxlll said, it's so you can see them and not get surprised by a nail from beneath. I was just following a video series without deviation and nails were part of it. I was going to use dowel but being a beginner I thought I best stick to the plan. I did end up liking the look of the nails. I must admit I clipped a nail head when flattening the apron. As a reward, I spent 20 minutes sweating at the diamond plate. After that, I checked them before each pass.


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Jameshow said:


> Well done!
> I think I'm going to have to build myself a new bench!!
> 
> Cheers James


Thanks, @Jameshow - if you do, post it on here and make it a beauty!


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Cabinetman said:


> Really smashing bench, you obviously take pride in your work and have the patience to succeed – I sometimes think that patience is one of the most important thing a woodworker needs.
> If you haven’t yet drilled all your dog holes for those rather nice bench holdfasts (Gramercy?), I read something that I thought was really good, and that was to wait until you want to hold something down and then drill a hole to do it with, some people drill regimented lines up and down their benches and never use 90% of them. Ian
> Ps I think maybe you saw a YouTube video I recommended by Mike Siemens?



Thanks, @Cabinetman. I've just looked back at the first post and this bench has taken me almost 4 1/2 months. I'd estimate that I worked on it 15 out of those 19 weekends, some days it might have just been a Sunday, so let's say 25 days of work... well over 200 hours has gone into it. It's the missus that must have the patience!

They are indeed Gramercy, I haven't drilled them all in the top yet. I've kept my wooden drilling guide for when I need it.

I did. It's a great video that I've bookmarked. I have already been standing at my bench thinking how the hell should I hold this down. There are so many options now it's hard to choose. Before my workbench, it was a clamp on a rickety garden bench!


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2020)

Top hole Stel. I'd be happy to show anyone a job like that, were it in my shop. Looks like you didn't need Chris's book in the end! 

Now... dovetails. That's a whole different pound of nails.

John


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> Top hole Stel. I'd be happy to show anyone a job like that, were it in my shop. Looks like you didn't need Chris's book in the end!
> 
> Now... dovetails. That's a whole different pound of nails.
> 
> John



Cheers. John. True! I'm just reading the build stage of his tool chest book and had a cold shiver when he mentioned his tool chest has 100 dovetails in! I don't even have a dovetail saw.... yet (that's a cold shiver just gone down the missus' spine'!)


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2020)

CS has done a DVD describing a simpler, plywood construction for his tool chest. Nothing wrong with it and it will take you days rather than weeks. A tool chest that will serve you quite well while you sharpen your skills. I never got round to it myself due to hospitalisation last year so I will potter on! In any case the Gas engineers are under my feet at the moment. 

John


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

Benchwayze said:


> CS has done a DVD describing a simpler, plywood construction for his tool chest. Nothing wrong with it and it will take you days rather than weeks. A tool chest that will serve you quite well while you sharpen your skills. I never got round to it myself due to hospitalisation last year so I will potter on! In any case the Gas engineers are under my feet at the moment.
> 
> John



Thanks for that. I've just had a skip through it on YouTube. The finished result looks very similar as well. I'm going to have a practice go at the dovetails before I buy materials. If it goes belly up and I don't improve I'll keep that version in mind.


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2020)

Stel. With the number of d/t's in the chest you couldn't help but improve as you go through the job. But you want 
make a good job so make a couple of small boxes, bìg enough to hold say a circular saw. You'll get a handle on dovetails. They might not be perfect but they will be ok to serve a purpose and you'll learn about dovetail procedure.
Softwood will be fine. Patience, practice and sharp tools!

John


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## SteL (18 Nov 2020)

@Benchwayze that's a good idea. A small box is an ideal starting point. I think I'll make one that holds the various sharpening bits and bobs. Cheers.


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## Benchwayze (18 Nov 2020)

You'm welcome Stel!

John


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## pe2dave (18 Nov 2020)

SteL said:


> You're right. I've just looked at prices for hardwood and I think I'll be sticking with redwood pine!


Or 25mm ply? Now twist in that. Quite workable as a top


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## SteL (19 Nov 2020)

pe2dave said:


> Or 25mm ply? Now twist in that. Quite workable as a top



I just used the redwood pine in the end. I didn't really consider ply because one of the aims of building the bench was to practice hand tool use and although flattening the top was a pain in the backside, it gave me a chance to have a go.


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## cymelbushby (19 Nov 2020)

Hi can’t seem to find the photos of bench


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## billw (19 Nov 2020)

SteL said:


> @Benchwayze that's a good idea. A small box is an ideal starting point. I think I'll make one that holds the various sharpening bits and bobs. Cheers.


If you want to make a toolbox I'd instantly advise trying a Japanese one, although that won't give you any dovetail practice. It will give you a lovely looking finished product though!


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## SteL (9 Jul 2021)

Eric The Viking said:


> Peter S. will wince, but my rule of thumb with M+T is entirely dependent on whether you can see the end of the tenon or not. If "not" then glue fixes most things! Your joint looks good, but...
> 
> ...The first picture shows how close that pine board is to the heart of the tree. It will almost certainly continue to "move around" (cupping, splitting and other nasty things) because of that, and isn't suitable to use for fine work. You might get on better by just using less than half of the width of it (which gives you almost quartersawn), but moisture content, etc. also play a part. Pine isn't nice to practice joinery with - it's cheap, but unforgiving unless it has been well dried, has good grain, and your tools are kept extremely sharp.
> 
> I'd guess that, if you try again with some nicer wood, the problem will go away.



Just thought I'd post an update now that I've been living with my bench for a year. 

It's hard to describe how easier your life becomes when you move from doing woodwork on a picnic bench to a proper bench! It doesn't just improve work holding it makes your tools work better. As a beginner, I imagined planing on a picnic bench would be similar to a workbench - they're both benches! It turns out planing on something solid, flat and heavy that holds the wood in place exactly where you want it makes all the difference.

I thought I'd give Eric The Viking a told you so moment, though! That vice jaw timber did move. I remember thinking it'll be fine, but no, it did move. I like to learn lessons the hard way! There's now a 1mm gap at the top of the vice and just over a 1mm gap at the bottom. It still holds stuff but I'm not happy with it so off I went to buy some beech for it today. I may have accidentally bought some oak and ash as well. I'll just tell the missus it was buy one get 2 species free! Anyway, at least I'll get another go at that through double mortise and tenon now!

After the winter the front apron and the whole top needed flattening again. Oh and if anyone is doing that planked top for the English style workbench, err on the side of caution for the gaps between the planks. I made mine the thickness of the rule on my square and I watched as those gaps closed and in some places started to touch. They've opened back up now but I was going to make those gaps half that size for aesthetics not understanding how far wood moves during a year.

The final issue was with the vice screw. That also wanted to get in on the wood movement action. That started to bind and I started to think of all the comments on here saying buy a used Record quick release... you'll be sorry. I got in touch with Lake Erie and they suggested pumice powder would do the trick. Not believing it would work I gave it a go and found out they know what they're talking about and I know nothing!


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## juniper_tree (29 Jul 2021)

I'm just about to embark on building this exact same bench, and already have a few questions. Since I'm new to the forum I'm curious about etiquette. Can I just continue this thread with a second build or should I create my own?


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## Cabinetman (29 Jul 2021)

juniper_tree said:


> I'm just about to embark on building this exact same bench, and already have a few questions. Since I'm new to the forum I'm curious about etiquette. Can I just continue this thread with a second build or should I create my own?


 Not sure about the etiquette, but I think you ought to start your own. Looking forward to it! I do love a bench build thread. Ian


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## SteL (30 Jul 2021)

Agreed, I'd start your own. It'll be good to see the progress it's a great bench!


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## MARK.B. (30 Jul 2021)

Have just spent the last 20 mins or so reading this post from start to finish and have to say it was time well spent  , how you overcame the difficult bits and your honesty when you made a bo bo even when it would not be seen on the finished bench. If jigs and guides make doing the job easier then i say use em to the max, to many people give up when things just don't go right the first few times, when a guide or simple jig can get you good results first time (well almost first time in some cases ).
Think about it we use guides all the time - your table saw/ Bandsaw has a fence and mitre guide, routers need guide bushes etc and with the price of timber now it would indeed be in my opinion foolish not to use any and all of the devices that you can nock up from a few off cut's or buy ready made .


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## SteL (2 Aug 2021)

MARK.B. said:


> Have just spent the last 20 mins or so reading this post from start to finish and have to say it was time well spent  , how you overcame the difficult bits and your honesty when you made a bo bo even when it would not be seen on the finished bench. If jigs and guides make doing the job easier then i say use em to the max, to many people give up when things just don't go right the first few times, when a guide or simple jig can get you good results first time (well almost first time in some cases ).
> Think about it we use guides all the time - your table saw/ Bandsaw has a fence and mitre guide, routers need guide bushes etc and with the price of timber now it would indeed be in my opinion foolish not to use any and all of the devices that you can nock up from a few off cut's or buy ready made .



Thanks, Mark. You're right about the guides. I'm quite happy to use them these days. I'm just building a pergola and decided to have a slant on the rafters in case I later decide to add a roof on. That decision meant that the notches all needed cutting at a weird angle. After a faff, I decided to knock up a guide block with magnet inserts to guide the saw. I flew through them then on autopilot. I'll burn the guide later and no one will ever know!


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## juniper_tree (2 Aug 2021)

Thanks all, especially to SteL whose thread it was. I doubt mine will be as detailed but the links to the same bench build, but by a different pair of hands is here.


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